Podcasts about pubcon

Ashley Segura is a content marketing strategist, speaker, and operator with 15+ years of experience turning messy, disconnected marketing efforts into systems that actually work. As Director of Marketing at SearchLab Digital, she leads campaigns that connect with humans (not just algorithms) for brands across the globe. Invited to speak at industry-leading events like SMX Munich, BrightonSEO, Pubcon, Engage, and Semrush Spotlight, Ashley has also been named a Top 100 Content Marketing Influencer and featured in SEOFOMO's Inspiring Women in SEO.

JH Scherck is a growth consultant known for his expertise in developing effective content strategies for SaaS companies. He previously worked for companies like WP Engine and Docsend before striking out on his own with his SEO and content strategy agency, Growth Plays. JH is a wealth of knowledge about B2B marketing strategies, audience development, and SEO. Check out the full podcast to learn more about: (00:00) Introduction (01:47) Early career mistakes (11:34) Why targeting zero-volume keywords makes zero sense (15:54) How to market a product with no search demand (20:08) Owned vs earned media (26:46) Brand vs personal brand for social media (37:25) What is a community and how do you build one? (42:58) Why should you attend industry events? (51:07) Facilitating connections at events (55:39) When is marketing attribution useful? (01:11:31) Why AI will encourage uniqueness in marketing Where to find JH: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jhtscherck/ X: https://x.com/JHTScherck Website: https://growthplays.com/ Where to find Tim: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/ X: https://x.com/timsoulo Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/ Referenced: Docsend: https://www.docsend.com/ WP Engine: https://wpengine.com/ Salesforce: Marc Benioff: https://x.com/benioff Drift: https://www.drift.com/ Dave Gerhardt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davegerhardt/ Alex Poulos: https://www.linkedin.com/in/poulos/ MozCon: https://moz.com/mozcon Rand Fishkin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin/ Sparktoro article (Provable Marketing Attribution Is a Boondoggle): https://sparktoro.com/blog/provable-marketing-attribution-is-a-boondoggle-trust-your-gut-instead/ Orbit: https://orbit.love/ Orbit model of community: https://orbit.love/model Olivier Pomel (CEO of DataDog): https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivierpomel/ Mattermark: https://mattermark.com/ Danielle Morill: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellemorrill/ Patrick Stox: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickstox/ https://x.com/patrickstox Joshua Hardwick: https://x.com/JoshuaCHardwick Ryan Law: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/ https://x.com/thinking_slow Jason Cohen (WP Engine): https://x.com/asmartbear Ross Hudgens: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosshudgens/ Wil Reynolds: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wilreynolds/ Hubspot: https://www.hubspot.com/ PubCon: https://www.pubcon.com/ Dmitry Gerasymenko: https://x.com/botsbreeder

Episode 202 contains the Digital Marketing News and Updates from the week of Mar 4-8, 2024.1. IndexNow Insights & Top SEO Insights Report - In an announcement at PubCon and then shared on the Bing blog by Fabrice Canel, Principal Product Manager at Microsoft Bing, Bing Webmaster Tools has introduced new insights and reports aimed at enhancing site performance across Bing and general search engines. The new IndexNow Insights report, now offers more than just a glimpse into URLs submitted through IndexNow; it provides:Learn about issues with crawled URLs and the status of your submitted URLs.Receive detailed reports on the number of URLs submitted, crawled, and indexed.Learn about your latest 1000 submitted URLs, including their index status, first indexed date, and whether they were submitted late.Get insights into the source of your URL submissions, whether through Cloudflare, WordPress, manual submission, or other means.With the "Important URLs Missing" tab, find out which newly discovered links are getting clicked but were not recently visible in IndexNow, helping you to better optimize your content and identify any technical issues.Get detailed information on individual errors, including content quality, robots disallowed, not crawled, indexed, and deadlinks. View a list of problematic URLs and steps to fix them.Drill-down for further details on non-indexed URLs, sample URLs, submission times, and mitigation steps to getting URLs indexed.Export indexing trends for further analysis or reporting.With IndexNow reaching 2.5 billion URLs submitted—up from 1.2 billion six months ago—and accounting for 17% of new URLs clicked in web search results, as stated by Canel, the importance of adopting this protocol cannot be overstated. 2. YouTube's Algorithm Insights for Creators - In a recent conversation on the Creator Insider channel, Renee Richie, a creator liaison, delves into the intricacies of YouTube's algorithm with Todd, who leads the Growth and Discovery team at YouTube. The discussion focuses on clarifying common misconceptions creators have about the algorithm and offers valuable insights into optimizing content for better visibility and engagement.The algorithm, contrary to popular belief, evaluates videos on an individual basis rather than assessing the overall performance of a channel. This approach ensures that a single off-topic viral video or a poorly received video does not adversely affect the channel's standing with the algorithm. Todd emphasizes the importance of aligning content with audience interests to maintain and enhance video performance.One of the most enlightening points made during the discussion is the concept that YouTube does not push videos to viewers; instead, it pulls videos based on viewer preferences. This viewer-centric approach means that the algorithm is activated when a user visits YouTube, making recommendations based on the user's history, device, and other contextual factors. Such insights underscore the importance for creators to focus on creating content that resonates with their audience, rather than trying to game the system.Another key takeaway is the algorithm's persistent support for videos, regardless of their immediate performance. Todd reassures creators that a video's success is not confined to its initial launch period. YouTube continues to recommend videos over time, adapting to shifts in viewer interests and trends. This perspective encourages creators to remain patient and not to disregard videos that do not perform well initially.The conversation also touches on the dynamics of content strategy, highlighting the necessity for creators to adapt to changing viewer preferences, such as the rising popularity of short-form content. Recognizing and responding to these shifts, and understanding the competitive landscape, can significantly influence a creator's success on the platform.Creators are advised to analyze their content's performance, especially how it's received by subscribers, to identify areas for improvement. This process can help pinpoint issues related to content packaging or delivery that might affect viewer engagement.In summary, the discussion between Renee and Todd sheds light on the operational principles of YouTube's algorithm, debunking myths and providing creators with a clearer path to optimizing their content strategy. Understanding that the algorithm favors content that meets viewer demands and preferences can empower creators to produce more engaging and successful videos.3. Local Services Ads Verification to Combat Spam - On March 4, 2024, Google updated the verification process for Local Services Ads (LSAs), aimed at enhancing security and trustworthiness among users and advertisers. This update, first rolling out in smaller U.S. states and progressively expanding to larger ones throughout the year, introduces a stringent verification procedure that includes identity checks alongside the existing license verifications for professionals featured in LSAs, such as lawyers.The revised verification process is Google's response to the growing concern over spam and fraudulent activities within the LSA program. By enforcing identity verification, Google intends to safeguard consumers from impersonators posing as licensed professionals. This move ensures that only verified business owners or senior partners, along with their affiliated professionals, are eligible to appear in LSAs, thereby enhancing the integrity of the ads shown to users.Affected advertisers are notified via email, with instructions on completing the verification process through Google's partner, Evident. Failure to comply within a specified timeframe results in the removal of the ads from search results, impacting the visibility and potential reach of the business. This initiative reflects Google's commitment to improving the LSA ecosystem, protecting both consumers and legitimate advertisers from the adverse effects of deceptive practices.4. "Solutions": Google Ads' Latest Innovation to Streamline Ad Management - Google Ads has announced "Solutions." This new tool is designed to simplify and automate the management of Google Ads accounts, offering a seamless experience for advertisers. Accessible for free under the "Tools" section in Google Ads, Solutions empowers users with the ability to generate comprehensive reports, automate basic management tasks, and much more, all tailored to enhance campaign performance relative to business goals. Here is what you can do with it:Filter your data by campaign, ad group, keyword, or other dimensionsSet flexible budgetsManage negative keyword lists throughout your accountSort your data by any metricExport your reports to a variety of formats, including CSV and XLSXSolutions help you to create automated and customized workflows without making changes to the code. Solutions are accessible for all advertisers and don't require technical skills or coding knowledge. Here are the types of solutions:Account summary: Generates a report of the performance for a Google Ads accountAd performance: Generates a Google Spreadsheet with distribution charts showing an ad's performanceAccount anomaly detector: Sends out an email when an account's performance stats deviate significantly

Join Nate Matherson as he sits down with Ann Smarty for the thirty-second episode of the Optimize podcast. Ann is an SEO expert with industry experience since 2005 and is the founder of Smarty Marketing, a client-first boutique SEO agency based in New York. She was the former editor-in-chief of Search Engine Journal, a frequent contributor to prominent search and social blogs like Small Business Trends and Mashable, and a speaker at Pubcon and other digital marketing events. In our episode today, Ann and I discuss organic search and AI predictions for 2024, her recent report, The State of The Link Building Industry 2023, helpful content, algorithm updates, and more! During the episode, Ann shares her experience with Google's algorithm evolution over the years and how user experience metrics signal Google that your website's content is valuable to the readers and should rank highly. In this week's deep dive, Ann shares her thoughts on the challenges agencies face in acquiring clients and the problems clients face when choosing an agency. Listen to her thoughts on the importance of experience and longevity when selecting an SEO agency, why you should educate yourself before your first meeting, and how shortcuts and hype can backfire. Rounding out the episode, Ann and Nate discuss link-building strategies, topical authority, creating link bait, and reputation management. Closing out the episode is our popular lightning round of questions! For more information, please visit www.positional.com or email us at podcast@positional.com.Resources:Join Positional's Private Beta Here: www.positional.comCheck-in with Nate on LinkedIn & TwitterCheck-in with Ann on LinkedIn & Twitter & Agency WebsiteThe State of The Link Building Industry 2023 Report

Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova. As we approach the end of the year, I'm pausing to look back and celebrate all of the wonderful guests that I had the honor of speaking to on the show. And based on your feedback, many of these guests resonated with you as well so we're giving you another chance to hear them in this series of 2023 listener- favorite episodes! This week, we're bringing back an episode with Mindy Weinstein who shares her personal philsophy and corporate experience with consumer psychology.  Mindy is the founder and CEO of Market MindShift, as well as a national speaker, trainer, and digital marketing strategist. She has worked with and trained companies of all sizes. Throughout her career, Mindy has trained such companies as Facebook, The Weather Channel, World Fuel Services, Hampton Products, Putman Media, and more. Other digital marketing agencies come to Mindy to learn the latest trends, concepts and methodologies. Mindy has been named as one of the top women in SEO and has presented at such conferences as Digital Summit, Pubcon, SMX, the SEJ Summit, and more. She is an Ask the SEO Expert columnist for SearchEngineJournal.com. Mindy has often appeared in the media, with television interviews that aired on Fox, NBC, and ABC as well as various other multimedia platforms. Mindy is the author of “The Power of Scarcity: Leveraging Urgency to Influence Customer Decisions” (McGraw Hill). She is also the host of Persuasion in Business, a podcast that dives into persuasion-related concepts and provides real-world applications for businesses. THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR… anyone in consumer finance, marketing, retail, sales, or really any position where they work with others.  TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE… consumer psychology is about understanding and listening the thoughts and perspectives of your customers, so you have to keep an eye on the digital conversations happening on social media and online platforms, but you can't forget about the direct contact modes from the sales team and customer service representatives.   WHAT I LOVE MOST… scarcity mindset is hardwired into the human mind, but we can harness our basic instincts and use this power for good to build community and make better decisions for ourselves! Running time: 30:37 Subscribe on iTunes Find Tiffani Online: Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Instagram Find Mindy Online: Website Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Mindy's Book: The Power of Scarcity

On this episode of 'The Art of Selling Online Courses'  we sat down with Tim Soulo, the Chief Marketing Officer and Product Advisor at Ahrefs, a cutting-edge SEO tool driven by big data.Tim's ground breaking data research in the realm of SEO has been recognized by numerous online publications, including Inc, TechCrunch, and VentureBeat. Renowned for his expertise, Tim has graced the stages of major industry conferences worldwide, including PubCon in Las Vegas, BrightonSEO in the UK, and the Digital Marketers Australia Conference in Melbourne. Tim's YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/SaaSMarketingVlogTim's Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/Ahrefs Website: https://ahrefs.com/If you're interested in growing your online course sales and funnel optimisation contact us at https://datadrivenmarketing.co/

What if you could increase your profits and lower your frustration on Amazon simultaneously?Join us in welcoming our guest, Robyn Johnson, the visionary CEO, and founder of Marketplace Blueprint. Robyn's recent accomplishments are nothing short of remarkable. With over 13 years of unparalleled experience in the Amazon realm, she's been at the forefront of shaping e-commerce success stories. Robyn's agency, Marketplace Blueprint, has achieved Amazon Advertising Partner status, a testament to her agency's excellence in navigating the Amazon landscape. Her expertise has also earned her coveted speaking opportunities at prestigious events like Prosper, Retail Global, Pubcon, and the Digital Summit Series.In this episode, Robyn Johnson, the founder and CEO of Marketplace Blueprint shares valuable insights on How Better Creative Can Give Your Products an Edge on and Off Amazon. Don't miss out on this eye-opening conversation!

Episode 179 contains the important Digital Marketing News and Updates from the week of Sep 18-22, 2023.1. YouTube's New AI-Powered Tools! - YouTube is stepping up its game with a slew of innovative creator tools, including groundbreaking generative AI features. Unveiled at the "Made On" showcase event, the platform introduced the "Dream Screen" generative AI tool, allowing creators to integrate AI-generated video and image backgrounds into their YouTube Shorts. This tool aligns YouTube with the latest creative trends, matching efforts by platforms like Snapchat, TikTok, and Instagram.Additionally, YouTube is launching "YouTube Create," a free video editing app reminiscent of TikTok's CapCut. This app offers a suite of editing tools, including audio cleanup, auto captions in multiple languages, filters, transitions, and direct publishing options. Initially tested in India and Singapore, it's now expanding to more regions and is currently available for Android users.To further fuel creativity, YouTube is introducing an AI ideas generator. By inputting a topic, creators receive content suggestions and even a downloadable content outline. While this tool offers inspiration, it's essential to use it as a guide rather than a strict blueprint to maintain originality.Other notable features include an automatic dubbing tool for content translation and an assistive search in creator music. These tools aim to simplify the content creation process, allowing creators to focus on their unique vision. 2. Google's New Report To Spot Checkout Issues on

Auf der Pubcon sagte Gary Illyes von Google, Links gehören schon länger nicht mehr zu den drei wichtigsten Rankingfaktoren. Dann stellt sich aber die Frage: Welche Rankingfaktoren sind die wichtigsten für Google? Verwirrung herrscht außerdem um die Frage, ob Klicks nun doch ein Rankingfaktor für Google sind, obwohl Google das bisher immer abgestritten hat. Die Aussage eines Ex-Googlers vor einem amerikanischen Gericht deutet jetzt darauf hin, dass Google Klicks sehr wohl für die Suche verwendet - in welcher Weise, ist jedoch weiter unklar. Im Zusammenhang mit dem laufenden Helpful Content Update hatte Google darauf hingewiesen, dass Inhalte schlechter Qualität von Drittanbietern auf Subdomains oder in Unterverzeichnissen der Gesamtbewertung einer Website schaden können. Allerdings ist dies noch nicht Bestandteil des aktuellen Updates. In den Bing Webmaster Tools werden jetzt zwar auch Daten aus dem KI-Chat angezeigt, allerdings lassen sich die Daten nicht filtern und separat auslesen. Die meisten Sorgen wegen Duplicate Content stammen laut John Müller von Google von SEOs. Bei Duplicate Content ist es wichtig zu differenzieren.

Today's guest is a former engineer at Yahoo who understands search engines second to none. We talk about all the ways to run an agency wrong, hoping to teach you how to be successful and do it right. He founded BlitzMetrics, a digital marketing company that provides training and mentorship for aspiring entrepreneurs across the globe. On a mission to create a million jobs internationally, please welcome Dennis Yu. Dennis Yu, it's a pleasure. Welcome to the Learning from Others Show. How you doing, man? Good, Damon, and it's awesome hanging out with you again. I wish it was in person like we were driving race cars in Vegas. I. That was fun. You know, we got a couple stories we could probably hit. Um, you and I have engaged on mostly Facebook over the years and kinda got a little friendship going on and, um, yeah, I, I flew out and I, every time I fly out somewhere I try and kinda keep track of who's where and, um, I. And meet up with somebody and establish a relationship a little bit better. So I appreciate the opportunity of you being willing to go hang out. And we did, we went and did a limo in race cars and um, I mean, you live in Vegas, but we, we did the tourist a little bit of the touristy thing. Yeah. Yeah. And, and thanks for taking the time. That was such an honor. And you know, you're one of the few ss e o people out there. I know this is being recorded. You're one of the few ss, e o people out there that is legit and drives results. And I am not being compensated to say this. But I've been sharing this and I'm, I know people that are watching this and have seen my Facebook posts. They're coming to you. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. It's, um, we'll probably talk 'cause you're legit about that today, you know? Yeah. Not, not about me, but about the industry. And, um, for, for me, that's been, uh, Good and bad to throw rocks at my own industry. Right? Like, it's unfortunate that that's such a valuable sales proposition to distinguish yourself as actually doing your job. But, but it is. So why don't we, why don't we start there? So, um, actually before we get into it, um, let's, let's have you talk about yourself the most, uh, enjoyable, comfortable part of a podcast. Um, I, I actually like how you put it on the intake form when, uh, so I ask the guests, you know, what's your elevator pitch that we can use? And Dennis just puts Google me. If we're talking about s e o and, and you don't have a knowledge panel show up when I Google you, you're a fat weight loss coach. Fat weight loss goes, where's, where's the analogy of a fat weight loss coach? Oh, fat, okay. Overweight weight, weight loss coach. That's overweight. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. So Dennis, um, has been in marketing for how, how long have you been in marketing? 30 years. Yeah, how'd you get into it? And I was one of the original people, one of the first people at Yahoo. So I built the internal analytics at Yahoo. So I'm a search engine engineer, so I'm not an S E o. I am the person who's trying to protect the results from the SS e o people trying to trick us. Yeah. Have you got jaded over the years knowing like how this works and being able to see the manipulation that's going on when it's not done for the right audience and the right users? Do you think that weight loss scams will ever go away? Every year there's a new scam, right? And people fall for it. 'cause they're just like, how do you not know that? It's a scam? Hey, if I take this one pill, you're gonna lose 30 pounds in 12 days. Like it's a scam, right? Mm-hmm. So the salespeople are always inventing new techniques. And I remember, this is like back in my day, we used to walk uphill both ways. I built websites by hand using Microsoft Front page. It was engineers that were building websites, people like us that actually physically knew how to do the thing. It was before the marketing people and all that came in back then. You remember it was called web mastering. Mm-hmm. Before it became digital marketing and social media and influencer and all these other words that are now really just buzz words, new words for the same thing. Mm-hmm. Right. And now I'm, I'm gonna blame the internet money Bross. Yeah. And the motivational speakers for now, all of them are ai. Experts and crypto experts and chat G P T experts and they're SS e o experts too. So all these people have come in in the last few years seeing easy money and now they're gonna start selling S E o. I was a Josh Nelson seven figure agency conference and Josh Nelson's amazing. I love the guy. They're people that come into that program 'cause they think it's easy money. And in the program Josh teaches you should sell s e o, but he also says you should also deliver s e o too. You should also understand what it is. Some agency owners, the guilty will be unnamed, are selling ss e o and they don't even know what it is, but they know that people want it and they need it. So they sell it for $2,000 a month and they're making all this money. This one company that I'm probably gonna release a full investigation later today is making three. Well, they're, they were making last month, $320,000 a month off of 150 clients that are paying for s e o and Facebook ads and websites and things like that. It is a scam. There's no way to defend it. It's a scam, but it's a sales guy running it. He has no operations, he has no marketing. He's a sales guy and some of them even white label their stuff out. So they have no idea what it is and someone else is doing it. They, the client doesn't know anymore. I mean, you know, they, but they're selling it 'cause they're salespeople. There's too many salespeople in the s e O space. Mm-hmm. We need more mechanics, not people in the car dealership wearing a tie. Slick hair saying all these things about the car. We need more mechanics that actually have grease on their fingers, like you and me. Yeah. I mean, I often get asked what, um, what should I know as I shop s e o and, and I think that why people are so attracted to, to you know, you and your transparency is because it establishes trust when you're willing to go, Hey, you know, One example, s e o takes time, but here's why. And then you explain it. Or, hey, not only here are the advantages of s e o, but here are the disadvantages because what they're getting pitched to you. You nailed it with the sales bros and not enough actual people doing the work is the majority of the time. These people that. Sounds smooth, are not the people that are actually doing any of the work. So they're gonna tell you whatever they think that you want to hear. And so when, when I get asked, you know, what should I be, be looking out for? And I'd be curious, some of the things that are top of your mind is, is my first thing is transparency. Like, they should be able to communicate. You don't need to know, you know, the, the full granular details of, of everything that's going on, but you should be able to clearly communicate, you know, here's. The intent behind why we're gonna focus on this thing in content, not just, we're gonna write stuff, you know? Mm-hmm. And what's, how, how are we gonna measure progress? Right. And how long is this gonna take and why? Yeah. But the majority of the people that are out there are just like, oh yeah, no, we'll get to it. You know, we'll get there, you'll see. And it's just like these vague responses, and I think that's become a thing of, of. Beyond just ss e o, but you and I are, are in that space more so just marketing in general is these constant sales bros of it's yell loud or talk louder or be flashier. Mm-hmm. And the emotions overtake the sales process. And then it doesn't matter, like right before we hit record, I was telling you about somebody that we're working with and they're killing it and the data shows they're killing it. But a, a sales bro got in their ear about, Hey, you need to be louder and flashier, and they're tearing it all down. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The sales bross are focused on collecting the money. I. They'll make huge promises. They're, they don't even know whether they can hit those promises 'cause they're not operators. The fact that you are posting screenshots, of course you're masking out like the client name and the keywords and all that, but showing the increase in traffic and sales, not just ranking on more keywords. 'cause you can rank on a bunch of garbage keywords and claim victory. Yeah. We need more people doing what you're doing and actually teaching the techniques. Not that these clients wanna learn how to, you know, who wants to learn how to change a transmission or, but at least if you know that that guy who is an actual mechanic is posting videos of him as he's, you know, working on the transmission and got grease on his hands as he's working on the car. There's a lot more trust there and especially if the mechanic shows what they're doing, right? I'd love to, you know when, when you go to a car or uh, you know the dealership and something's wrong with the car, they're gonna give you an itemized list. Of the things that are broken and what, and therefore the toll and you know, maybe the dealership will still overcharge you, but at least you know what they're doing, right? Yeah. If you're buying a new car or not a new car. So Damon, let's say you're buying a, a car off of whatever, like Facebook marketplace and the guy says, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always been in the garage the whole time and never been driven. And you see it's got 150,000 miles on it. I don't know if that's exactly true. Oh, it's, it's never been in a crash, really. I don't know. It just looks like some of these. Here don't look like they were the original parts. Are you sure? Oh yeah. It's brand new. You know, it's, it, I don't trust, I just hate to be cynical. I don't trust what other people have to say. So if you're gonna buy a car, Damon from somebody, third party, are you just gonna take what that guy says or are you gonna have a mechanic check it out real quick? Yeah. You, you're, you're doing the equivalent of an audit. Yeah. So I, you know, audits take two minutes. In two minutes we can spot all kinds of garbage. That you and I know, like buying a bunch of fake links or most commonly having done nothing. Yeah. And letting the, especially in a service-based business, letting the G M B and the reviews that are actually done by the client carry the weight and claiming credit for that. Yeah. How dare you claim credit for something the client did? Yeah. And dressing it up as, oh well, Google's algorithm changes all the time and it takes a while and it's a mystery. And I can't tell you our methods 'cause they're proprietary, can't give you access to our systems. I hope you understand. It's such a big secret. I'd have to kill you. Proprietary is one of, if the not top red flag for me, as soon as somebody says that in, in a marketing sales discussion, because we're all using the same dozen or two tools. Mm-hmm. It's just who knows how to use them most efficiently in which combination to deliver on the results. Yeah. If any that you have mapped out into SOPs, Can you imagine if you ask a mechanic, so you're fixing my transmission. What tools are you using? Oh, it's prop tools. Using wrenches are secret. Yeah, yeah, I can understand if you're like Mrs. Field's chocolate chip cookies, but even they put their recipe out there as like a, a campaign to try to, you know, what was like a gorilla campaign? 'cause they, they planted that thing to try to make it popular. But I flew back from LA yesterday to Vegas and the pilot greeted me. I always liked to just have a quick chat with the pilot if I'm the last one on the plane. And can you imagine asking the pilot, so, um, How did you learn how to fly? A 7 27? And he says, oh, it's a secret. I can't tell you. It's super proprietary. No, there's flight training manuals and all that kind of stuff out there. It's, it's public. In any field. If you're a doctor, hey, you're a heart surgeon and you're gonna do heart surgery on me, what scalpels are you using? Hell yeah. Super proprietary, the scalpel and you know, it's the scalpel that I use. It's, you know what, you could be a heart surgeon too. If you pay me $10,000 and sign up for my weekend course. I'll teach you how you can be a heart surgeon just in a weekend, because I'm also gonna give you access to my proprietary scalpels. It's the skill of who's using the scalpel. It's the, do you remember Mars Blackman and the Air Jordan campaigns? I think you're old enough to remember that. Uh, I never got in the shoes and think that, but that's No. Uh, but it, but so they had Air Jordan, you know, Michael Jordan, the most famous basketball player ever, and they were making fun. It was, the commercials back in the eighties were hilarious. Mm-hmm. That Mars Blackman, who was Spike Lee would say, it's the shoes. It's the shoes. Got the shoes, Uhhuh. You could jump as high as Michael Jordan and hit your head on the rim, right? Yep. So do you think if I switched from Adidas to Nike that I'd all of a sudden be a better basketball player, do you think If like me doing ss e o, if I just switched from my primary tool to, you know, the proprietary ones or Majestic or Hfss or SEMrush, like, do you think that would matter? No, it's all the same data. There's no proprietary, like you said. Yeah, it's, it's your skill. The other red flag for me is guarantees and, and my position on gu. Sure, they sound lovely. I get why they're attractive, uh, attractive to the consumer and attractive to sell. Um, and, and, and in some forms of marketing, maybe there's guarantees. But in s e o there, there's so many abstract variables and, and wildcard that you should be able to communicate why they're variable in a wildcard and also communicate. Why you can't offer a guarantee on it. What you can do though, is you can communicate averages and expectations. Mm-hmm. You know, you can't guarantee you're gonna be on page one in 10 months, but you could say on average it's 12 months or whatever, give or take. You can talk about the home runs that took four months. But to me it's a huge red flag. It it's a sales guy. Anytime I hear somebody saying there's a guarantee. As you talked earlier, it's the guy doing the sales and not the person actually doing the fulfillment and the guarantee in our space, what, what you and I are doing, it's competitive SS e o. So for us to move from position five to position one, that means we have to get ahead of those other four guys. So we, we can't, we. Guarantee what those other four people are doing. Yeah, we can, we can guarantee our effort level, we can guarantee higher r o i because we can focus where there's less competition or where there's more bang for the buck by going, by changing our strategy. Yeah. But we can't guarantee number one on Google for city name, you know, plumbing or whatever it is. Real estate city name. Yeah. Well, let's talk to, um, Let's talk to the aspiring agency owner and how they can avoid being part of our future discussions and how to approach. You do not want me writing an article about you in that I love writing articles about people, and they're either very positive, which is 99% of the time, like I love Uplifting You, Damon. And then there's the 1% of the people that are outright scamming 'cause A, they're not delivering, and B, they know it. There's a lot of people that are unintentionally ignorant. And this is the advice that we're giving agency owners right now. You wanna take care of your clients. You recognize there's a lot of stuff that you'll never know as much as Damon Burton, but there's certain things you do need to know. You've gotta learn the basic tools to see that rankings turn into traffic. That turn into sales. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And if you just generate, so there's one personal injury client that they were paying this guy. His name sounds like a whiskey. His first name is Jason. You can maybe figure out who it is. And he was charging this personal injury attorney $70,000 a month. And what he did was upload a dictionary to the site on how do you get a commercial truck driving licenses. So they, you know, attorneys, they want truck driving cases. 'cause those are million dollar cases versus like fender-bender ones, right? They really want the truck driving cases. So, This guy was ranking on all these, these truck driving terms, but they're all like, how do, what are the, you know, how long does it take to get a commercial truck, uh, driving license? And what is a C D L? And none of them had the intent of someone who got hit by a truck. Yeah. And this guy that was charging $70,000 a month, what he did was he was, he was creating 200 garbagey posts in a glossary every month. I told you about this one. Mm-hmm. We talked about this before. Yeah. And. The client who's wealthy and has made, you know, over a billion dollars, didn't know any better, but he suspect it's, you know, these guys are not dumb, but they don't know about s e o. They're real smart and they, like, you don't wanna try to pull the wool over. Just because they don't know about SS e o doesn't mean they're dumb. Okay. They're, they can kind of, they're busy. Yeah. They're, they're good at the thing that they do, and you're good at the thing you do, and I get that, but, So this guy Jason was claiming, look at all the look we're driving, we're ranking on another 2000 keywords. Yeah, but they're all garbage. And I looked inside the analytics and there is no more phone calls and no more cases being driven off of this s e o. All the cases from a search engine organic search standpoint, we're coming on. People searching for the client's name. This, this client is on TV, billboards. He has more billboards in Kentucky than anyone else. He's all over the place, right? So they Google his name and, and then this s e o guy was claiming credit for this guy's TV ads and billboards. So my number one thing for people that your agency owners and your, you know, you need to offer, you can't just offer Facebook ads 'cause then you have a 90 day churn. That's just unfortunate, right? Mm-hmm. You can't offer social media by itself unless you just wanna churn it out. You have to offer s e o, you have to offer some kind of P P C or whatnot to show that you can drive results. But the key is start with the results first. Yeah. Don't talk about all the s e o, whatever. Start with you need more cases, you need more clients, you need more book jobs, you need more phone calls. And that comes from people that. Come to our website because they search on these certain keywords and here's the competition on those keywords. So most of these s e o people, they use the s e O tools that you and I know that generate that auto, generate these reports and put the agency's name on them, right? Mm-hmm. Because why wouldn't, why wouldn't I wanna use these different tools that just send out reports to make it look like there's work being done? Mm-hmm. But that's not work that's being done. It's just showing rankings that go up and down. Hopefully the numbers are going up every month and if the business is doing well and they're taking care of their customers, even if you do nothing from an ss e o standpoint, those s e o numbers will go up, won't they? Yeah. So don't rely upon rankings. Rankings are nothing compared to traffic. And traffic is nothing compared to sales. 'cause even if you drive more traffic, this one personal injury attorney was, was driving an extra, I forgot the number, but two or 3000 visits a month to their website. People that were looking to become truck drivers. Yeah. And then that pollutes our remarketing audiences. 'cause we pay to remarket against people who come to the site. Right. 'cause all of those could be cases. So we're remarketing everywhere. 'cause of the pixels. Yeah. So s e o start, it sounds fundamental and it doesn't matter if you do Facebook ads or website building or email. Start with the client's goal and what that's worth and then trace it back to what you do. Yeah. Like there's one client, they're a big personal injury. Firm for some reason. We got a lot of these PIs and they're spending 1.7 million a month on Google ads. Yeah. And they're also doing SS e o. They're using Ben Fisher for L S a I love Ben. They're using Steve Wedeman for SS e o I love Steve. And there's more calls that are coming in. The firm has been growing, but they couldn't figure out where this. Cases were coming from because there's 10 different systems that have to be tied together. Hmm. And sometimes the in, in CallRail or, or RingCentral, we can automatically append where that call came from. But sometimes we have to ask 'em. And a lot of what we call digital plumbing wasn't in place 'cause, you know, multiple LSAs and a different website for P P C versus one for the main firm for different reasons. So we had to tie all this stuff together and it was only last week. Outta this firm's 15, 20 years. It's only last week that for the first time we're able to see Marketing Source. So if you're the agency, you've gotta be able to show that what you are doing goes all the way down to the bottom line where there's sales. And that means you often have to go into the call rail or into their C R M or whatnot. What percent of the time Damon are SS e o agencies going all the way down to see that there was a sale that was occurring. And or do you think that's important? I think it's important, but not, you know, most people don't, uh, almost never. It's, it's mind boggling to me when I get on, uh, a lead call and they're with an agency already, and I ask them for basic stuff. What, what are you currently targeting? What's been done today? And. I for, I'm 17 years into doing this and it still blows my mind like the first time. Every time when their reply is, I don't know what we're targeting. I'm like, okay, well what have they done to date? I don't know what we've done to date. They just send me these flashy reports every month that said they did something. It is surprisingly, the majority of the time, and I can't wrap, you know, I have such a hard time with this because even though I see it so often, I can't put myself in that position to rationalize that approach. And so it's such a, it's like a twilight zone to me because I can't, I can't relate to it whatsoever. Yeah. There's so many scams. I wrote an article like 15 years ago and I think it was something along the lines of, I mean we could Google it to find it, but you know how to, how to sell ss e o and I basically, it was a joke 'cause it was revealing the techniques and I said, you know, the best way. To win a client. 'cause these guys are all, all the sales bros are all about selling, selling, selling, right? They don't care about delivery. They just wanna sell. So I'm like, okay, you wanna sell? Here's the easiest way to sell. Before you go into that sales meeting, put up a blog post on a site that at least has a little bit of juice. Like hopefully you have a blog that has some amount of trust and ha optimize it for a long tail keyword. So let's say that this is, uh, you're talking to a. Veterinarian. So then write a blog post that ranks for Boulder, Colorado, golden Retriever, toenail clipping tips. Mm. Right. How difficult do you think that would be? Yeah, not at all. You were difficult to zero, right? Yeah. So write a blog post, make a video about it, rank for it, and then go in there. And say, yeah, you know, with S E O I even came prepared and I know you're a veterinarian. Go ahead and go into Google right now on your computer, on your phone and search Golden Retriever toenail clipping tips. Boulder, Colorado, and like, oh look, we're number one. See? Yeah. Then if that doesn't work, 'cause sometimes it doesn't work, you know, sometimes whatever, sometimes your site has no power. Then buy that on Google. Buy that keyword on Google and Geotarget just to Boulder, Colorado on golden retriever, toenail clipping tips. Exact match, right? And put a dollar a day on that campaign and say, go ahead and search. And then you could, ideally, they do a search on it and they see your ad and they see that you rank number one on that. That's fantastic. That's so funny. Yeah, because it's especially with local like you and I know with local, we're not talking about national golden retriever, toenail clipping tips. We're saying in Boulder, Colorado. How many other people are writing articles about Golden retriever toenail clipping tips? No one. Yeah, no one. So with SS e o, I think so. To be clear, I know it's easy to rag on these ss e o people 'cause it like 95% of it's scam, unfortunately. But here's the good news. You and I know that ranking for local. It's way easier 'cause you only have to beat the other people in Orange County, California that do whatever the thing is. You know, meds, liposuction, orange County and other Santa Ana and Newport Beach. Like that's, that's not competitive, but liposuction, if I like, how much effort would it be to rank on liposuction if I, you know, needed you to, to do that for some reason versus liposuction, small city name. Yeah. Oh, it could, it could be a night and day difference depending on the location. Yeah. 'cause you, you also have to take into consideration the indirect competition. And I think this is something that, um, I don't, I don't really hear a lot of other SEOs talk about. I'm sure plenty of 'em know about it, but I. What this goes into the transparency thing when you're explaining the realistic expectations to your client is you not only have to take into consideration the quantity of results that you're fighting against, but the quality of the big players that are in the way too. I mean, there's so many variables in in which you look at. These results that, um, you know, I don't know where I'm going with this, but I think it's just, at the end of the day, it's, you can't outrun your reputation. Right? And so these, these people that say sells over service, right? And, and just like you said, where it's just, just sell more is, is the solution that won't last forever. And then, and then what are you gonna do? Yeah. Reputation's everything I think. I'd be curious to see if you agree, but I believe that pro-level SS e o is indistinguishable from pr, reputation management, social media, whatever it is, because it's other people that are credible in that particular topic that are talking about you co-creating content like we're doing here. And that's showing up on reputable industry specific websites, not like random websites that happen to be DR. 73. About websites that are authoritative and rank on those keywords in that industry. So if you build those relationships, if you have that expertise and you've done a great job, then your reputation's great and your SEO's great. I don't know how, how someone could have great s e O in a competitive area and not have a great reputation as if me at Google, well, I was at Yahoo, but a lot of my people I trained went to Google as if we couldn't tell. Who is legit and what links were real or not, and if that content was generated by chat PT or you know, if it didn't have, maybe we can't tell if it was autogenerated, but we can certainly tell if it has pieces of experience in there as part of eat. Yeah. You know, you know, maybe what you and I should do is create, um, an ss e o escrow validating company. Oh. I do that all day. Where it's like, you know, we don't want your business, we just want to, you know, we charge a consulting fee to protect you, help vet which your choices are, you know, bring us a three. You're considering, and we'll tell you the pros and cons of all of 'em. There we go. Thanks everybody. I would love to do that. Yeah, that, I mean, I've been doing that for 20 plus years. How many friends have you had coming saying, you know, Hey, you know, can you just like look at my s e o real quick? I, I'm sort of suspicious every day. That's like a, a dude saying, I think my, I think my wife's cheating on me. Do you think like, if they're ha if they're having to ask, I think you know what the answer is, right? Yeah. Every day I had, uh, co comes and goes, uh, in higher quantities, uh, on certain days, but it is nearly, I've had three, it's, we hit record at 1:00 PM today and by 1:00 PM I had three just today that asked me that. Yeah. I've had 35 in the last 10 days. Yeah. Yeah. And it's consistent. Yeah. And I help most people for free. Like there's this one that hit me up literally just 15 minutes ago and I'm looking at their text. Hey Dennis, my name is Chris. I'm a friend of so-and-so. She gave me your number in regards to an SS e o audit I was hoping to get done on a site I'm working on. And then there's some specifics there. I'd love to chat if you're free. Anytime. Yeah, I'll, when we're done, I'll call him back. I'll take a look at the site and in three minutes I'll tell him what's going on. Yeah. Yeah, because you and I are mechanics, we pop open the hood, we take a look, we hook up the diagnostics, and we're like, okay, here's what's actually going on with the car. Why don't we talk about, you know, you, you just made the comment that you'll, you'll usually help 'em for free. Um, as do I. And a lot of times the, the industry will tell you to do otherwise. It's, it's charged. They're sales oriented, and yes, your time is valuable and like, I'm not gonna get on a whole hour call. I'll just do a, a look at a couple quick things and because I think that, I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I think s e o is, is now verticalized. It's better to, if, if I know a lot about liposuction, I can do li, I can do ss e o for liposuction, doctors all over the place. I'll just have a competitive advantage over all the other people like. Over people like you and me that are just like good generally, but we also know certain categories. You've been doing 17 years, you know, a number of categories by now. But I think that when people come in and I do a quick audit, like any of us can do this, looking at the basics. Mm-hmm. It's easy to do the analysis. Doing the work is different. I'll pass them to someone that I know, like I'll pass 'em to you. Mm-hmm. Or I'll pass them to someone that's really good in that particular industry for real estate agents. For insurance brokers, for e-commerce, for like whatever, right? And the days when 25 years ago, you, you, you could be a generalist, but I feel like you have to be vertically specific if you really want to be world class. It's, it's literally minutes. Yeah. I mean, yeah, why not? Why put the berry up? Yeah. Literally, you're right. Two minutes I can, I can audit someone at two. And I've done this like we did one last week for the city of San Francisco and the small Business development center, which is this nationwide thing, part of the S B A and people were signing up. We had a whole bunch of people on Zoom and I just did audit after audit after audit. People love doing it. We've been doing it now for 18 months 'cause they started it up in the middle of Covid and we've been doing it every month. It's great. Yeah. Free audits. Why not? Not selling anything, but people say, oh, can you recommend someone to, you know, my website's on Wix. Okay. Go to Upwork and use the job postings that we have on converting and, and here's the job posting. This is my website. It's on Wix. I wanna move to WordPress. Here's another guy's website. Don't copy it exactly. But can you make it like that and host it on WP Engine? And I wanted to meet this other criteria. We have website, we have criteria. You can literally Google it, like website audit checklist, blitz metrics, you'll see. And, and it also has to fit this criteria. How much? $300. Okay, cool. This guy's 95% and has 200 ratings, and his earnings are $200,000. Like he's in Pakistan. Okay, fine. Sure. $300, let's do it. Right? Yeah. And we teach people how to hire VAs and how to hire people in Upwork, in Fiverr. But the data that you get is, is infinitely, it's worth more, more than that. I mean, you're, you're buying so much wisdom in such a compressed amount of time to make a long-term decision. Yeah. And so if it's a, it's a Fortune 500 company, I'll say, okay, it's a power hour, go to blitz metrics.com/powerhour and we have an onboarding process because they don't want just three minutes of my time. I'll give anybody three minutes of my time. 'cause it's just, it's too rude to say no and I'm important or whatever. I'll just give you three minutes of my time. Fine. Right? Mm-hmm. I'll prerecord it so it doesn't require being live. Yep. But if it's a, well, yeah, it's a well-known company, then I'm like, yeah, it's 15 hundreds, nothing for you. Mm-hmm. So we'll do that. And we had one two weeks ago and they bought that and they said, yeah, you know, we really are struggling. Can you help us? The s e o agency is playing games and like, yep. I already know what they're saying. And now we have a large contract. Yeah. So the 1500 led to, it was basically like a paid sales call. Yeah. If you're an agency, know that when you do, when you do it the right way, you just, you provide value, whether it's free or charged, or you know, you will drive more real clients because they trust you. Yep. And, and from my perspective, uh, I've talked about how there's only three types of content consumers. So the, the, and this is why you should give away your, your content for free or, or give your time as as availability permits. So consumer number one is the person that takes your advice and runs. Okay. Well they were never a client anyway, so you didn't lose them, but now you increased your reputation and your reach. Right? And then content consumer number two is somebody that may not need what you offer now, but knows somebody that does or they come back later, or three is they buy. Mm-hmm. So from my perspective, you have no losing reason to not just give away. All the answers for free, right? 'cause I want the person that values time more than money. So if, if they can implement it, I'm happy they made progress with it. Otherwise, you know, we, we, we establish trust, we establish credibility, and then when it makes sense, it, it just eliminates the sales walls. They would've been a horrible client to begin with. So we call those free tarts, right? You're a D I Y, you're gonna try to do it yourself. Save every penny. You know, you go and get your own groceries. I have the freaking ghost groceries delivered to me from Costco. I'm not gonna be a driver of like, I, you know, so those pe you give away your information for free because you don't want those kinds of clients to come to you. 'cause they're just gonna complain. They're nightmare clients. They're gonna, they're cheap. You know, you all. But I can get that for way less from the Philippines. Yeah, you go do that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, I think you and I could talk indefinitely, um, about a variety of things, especially this in this, this topic of the industry. Um, now, now as we get kind of closer to wrapping up, let's, let's kinda take the opposite approach. Um, so we've kind of, we've kind of beat up on our own industry a little bit. Um, let's, let's kinda help the aspiring, um, Agency owners with some, some wins, right? So we've said, don't do these things, which I guess imply the opposite of do these other things. But, um, you know, how did you start to build up your reputation? How did you start to get your foot in the door? How did you start to earn the trust of people? So we can kind of maybe end with a couple little tips there on the high note. So I believe that, you know, when I was a, a young adult and I. I didn't even speak English, you know, until I was seven. I always felt that I wasn't good enough and I felt that all these other people were so much bigger and better than me. And I remember going to Pubcon and Kevin Lee of did it was speaking. And this guy started analytics company. He's well known in the world of SS e o, and I thought, wow, this guy's like a God. I would love to be able to do SS e o and all this, but I don't think I'm like him. He's so well spoken and just everything about him. I just worshiped this guy. Now, I was an engineer at Yahoo and I was a great engineer, but I didn't know how to communicate and. I didn't know if I could make promises to the client. 'cause you know, I wanted to make money as an agency 'cause on my way, you know, as I was about, about to leave Yahoo. And, but I didn't, you know, I knew I'd work really hard and I knew I was honest and ethical, but I, I, I didn't wanna go out there and just start making promises 'cause there's a chance I couldn't deliver. So, you know, I would tend to not say anything or tend to not. I put myself out there 'cause I thought all these other people are out there just aggressive, fast talking salespeople didn't wanna be like that. 'cause I heard so much the garbage, like what we talked about. And then I realized, you know, there are clients, if you find the right clients that they will, it's like night and day. So when we had Quiznos as a client, Hmm. They were a fantastic client. They weren't the nightmare where they're, every day they're like checking their rankings and asking what's going on. And they paid us a lot of money, and I find that if you're an aspiring s e o and you're growing, it's yes, obviously learn from people like Damon and keep improving and work hard and have great operations and all that stuff, but I think client selection is the most important part. When you have the right client and you're transparent with them and you have a relationship with them, and you, you, you go out to dinner with them, maybe if you could meet them, right? It's just so much better and it results in retention and you feel good about what you're doing. And then you have 'em on your podcast as you start to have results and they love to talk about you. Like we did this for the Golden State Warriors, the basketball team. And I loved working with the Golden State Warriors. They treated us so well. I got to meet Steph Curry and hang out in the locker room and go to the playoff games. They paid us a lot of money. And here's the, the thing that may seem too far away for most younger ss, e o people, I put them on stage. I was given the opportunity to speak, to be a keynote speaker at one of the largest conferences in Europe. The last year's keynote was Richard Branson. And they wanted me to be keynote, and I said, no, no. Instead of me being the keynote, I wanna put the head of marketing from the Golden State Warriors, the very popular basketball team as the keynote, and I'll introduce 'em. Right? And that worked wonders. There was a case study that was done by Facebook on us. So your reputation carries everything. The relationships that you have, interviewing your clients, interviewing other people that are competitors, you know, maybe Damon or I are competitors. Not really. 'cause there's plenty out there for all of us. So by having the abundance mindset that enables us to be able to share what we've learned and elevate other people like, wow, Damon just wrote this great article. I'm gonna share it. I don't if he generates more clients because of that, that is fantastic. It doesn't have to come to me. Most of my posts that I put out there on Facebook are elevating other people and how awesome they are. I think that's hard to do if you're small and you're not making money. You're like, oh, I want every dollar that comes my way 'cause I need every penny to pay rent and whatnot. I get it. But if you change your mindset, this is the last I'll say about this whole like motivational speaker walk on Kohl's, Tony Robbins kind of thing. But I found if, and I wish I knew this 20 years ago, that. If I spent more effort honoring and elevating other people in the industry that will drive me more of the right kind of clients that I want, even without me talking about my expertise or what I know or how good I am. I closed five clients last week on SS e o pieces because I was elevating, you can go back to my Facebook mm-hmm. And figure out what it was. But by elevating other people that are well-known. Industry. I interviewed yesterday on my podcast, one of the top content marketing experts, and she's a big deal at LinkedIn that's driving my reputation up. People buy based on your reputation. It's all based on your perceived authority. That's why clients buy if you're a sales minded person. The perceived authority gives you the opportunity to get the right client. And then, like you said, Damon, those three, three categories, when you do the audit, figure out which one they are. Mm-hmm. And if they're great, then you have to deliver. As long as you can deliver, then you're great. Right? And so I approached from the standpoint of I learned how to deliver first as a search engine engineer. So I feel like Damon, I'm credible to talk about ss e o 'cause I'm one of the few people that actually worked at the search engine and you know, like I have a good opinion about this thing. I have some credibility here. And so now it's easy for me to audit. It's, I've done this enough times, I've learned from, from other people. So I would hang out in, in like London. Singapore with Rand Fishkin and his mom, Jillian, who's the one who's really running the show. Mm-hmm. And you know, we're putting together s e o presentations, we're hanging out with the conference organizers, and I realized these are these people that I thought were gods, were humans too. Kevin Lee, who I told you was the guy I worshiped before he, he invited me on his podcast twice. And I said, I said to him on the podcast, I can't believe you can even Google it. And see, this is what I said. I can't believe I'm on, I'm hanging out with you, Kevin. I mean, this is a guy, like when you were done speaking on stage and then all the people would come up to you, I, and I'd never get a chance to talk to you like, oh, one day I'd love to talk to Kevin Lee. And here I, here you are reaching out to me to be on your podcast. What the heck is going on here? He said, no, no, no, Dennis, I'm just honored to be spending time with you. And then he said all these great things about me. And I said, this is being recorded, isn't it? Yeah. But maybe, you know, if you're doing ss e o and, and you feel like you don't know as much as Damon or whatnot, you know, sometimes you, you have to step back and look at how much you know. So when you interview someone or someone else interviews you, you realize like, oh wow. I actually have come a long way. I've actually learned a lot. That puts you in a, in a position of gratitude and you honor your clients and you're not worried about poaching, you're not worried about other people that do s e o I help other people that do s e o for a living. I'm, you do that too, Damon. Mm-hmm. Does that hurt your business at all in any way? Not at all. It helps your business. So we have a lot of clients do that. We do s e o for, and still I'm talking about Damon and I'm sending people to Damon and it doesn't hurt me at all. Yeah. And, and it, it only, it only helps. And, and when Dennis says he, 90% of his posts are about lifting other people up. He, he's very literal. It's. Probably 90% or, or plus. And it's just, you know, it's not necessarily contact creation, but documentation of Yeah. What you're doing and the engagements and the people that you're connecting with. Um, and, and I actually just made a post on LinkedIn this morning about, um, on the same topic, there's somebody who I've been mentoring and. I send them business. Right? Yeah. Because then it helps the the person that I connected them with to finally get somebody that can support them morally and ethically, and then it helps a young aspiring entrepreneur to build their business up and then they're going to reciprocate the other way when, when it's a client that's a little bit outta their league. Yeah, but it's a, it's amazing to watch for, for me, the, the part that I find most fascinating, obviously, yeah, sales is great. Um, growing is great, but the Wild Card is, is always what I find the most fascinating and rewarding, where you get a relationship that you didn't expect or an opportunity to, to meet or do a thing. You know, just like you said, you, you got to go, um, in the locker room, meet Steph Curry, just like those things that. You, you didn't have on your to-do list. But then when it happened, it was such an amazing thing. That's what I find the most rewarding about serving and helping others and, and just being moral and transparent. Yeah, serendipity. And you build these relationships over time and they start to unlock other things. And in finance, this is called a, a real option. So by having the Golden State Warriors as a client, we then were able to work with the N F L. Yeah, and the N B A and all these other sports teams came calling, and I never would've realized. I guess in hindsight it's like, well, yeah, obviously you're promoting how awesome the Golden State Warriors are. Facebook wrote a case study. Mark Zuckerberg mentions you on stage, you know, and how we got a 39 r every dollar got $39 back of what we invested. Of course that would've happened, but you never at, in the moment, you're not thinking about that. Mm-hmm. So really when you, when you have great relationships that for you young s e o people focus on the relationships, focus, make sure your communication is great. The ss e o people have a reputation for being geeks that don't communicate. Be personable. You, you sent me some cookies, Damon. Wow, that was so awesome that that was serendipitous. I enjoyed that. And that that's just building relationship. Checking in on people, clicking like on their posts and delivering great work leads to so much more. The referrals that you get from your existing clients are worth more than any marketing you could ever do. You do a good job of that. You never need to do marketing. Uh, I, I'm 17 years in and this is the first year I've considered spending a dollar on advertising. So the entirety of this multimillion dollar business has built, uh, purely on reputation and results because you've earned it. You have the perceived authority and you have the actual authority. Yeah. Well, Dennis, um, I appreciate, uh, that I, I just love talking to you. You got a good vibe. Um, it's good to be in company with somebody else who's transparent and straightforward. Um, I did not pay Dennis to say kind things about me, but I greatly appreciate them. Are you giving me a commission at all? No, I, because 'cause I believe in you. Yeah. And you've, you've taken the effort and I've taken the effort to build the relationship over years and people can tell. Yep. Yeah. And then once you get in, as you just started talking about with Golden State Warriors and then other professional sports teams, when you get in with somebody, you know, I'm not gonna refer anybody to somebody that I won't put my name behind. And I'm sure you feel the same way, right? Yep. And so when you get in and you establish these relationships with people at high level, they, they have a, a. A, a circle of trust, right. That you get exposed to once you establish your authority and your ability to deliver. So, I mean, there's so many different, to kind of wrap this up on the, the thing of, you know, you can't outrun your reputation and you can't outsell your reputation. You can probably get pretty far in the beginning by focusing on sales and not reputation. Yeah. Uh, but eventually you hit that. Amplifier of, of reputation where it begins to go tenfold times tenfold, times tenfold. That you couldn't spend, I mean, you couldn't have bought your way into a relationship with the Golden State Warriors. No. Because they get three calls a day from people that are offering ss, e o, and P p C and all kinds of magic promises. Yeah. You know, funny. Um, I got to work with, uh, Utah Jazz on their retail division, team store. Same thing. Came from a relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're, if you're a player in the game, you wanna be here long term, focus on relationships. If you just wanna make some quick money now focus on sales, but you'll, you'll be run out and then whatever the next new thing is, you'll do that in a year or two. But if you wanna be like Damon relationships all day, I know like people say that all day, but I, I promise you that's the thing. It's not sales calls. It's not the cold email. Magic blasting using ai. That's not it. Yeah, Dennis, you blitz metrics. Uh, how can people get ahold of you, learn more about you? They can Google me and they can see a full knowledge panel and whatever your favorite channel is, and I respond to everybody. It's not a va, it's me. It might take me a few days, but I, you know, LinkedIn's probably the best way to reach me from a business standpoint. Well, Dennis, you blitz metrics, Google m Dennis, last name, y u. It's been a pleasure looking forward to meeting up again and doing our thing wherever that is next time. Awesome Damon. Appreciate you

My guest on this week's episode of Suds & Search is Dixon Jones, CEO of inLinks. Dixon is an industry veteran, a published author, frequent blogger, and one of the best educators in the industry. He's won numerous awards, including the illustrious Search Personality of the Year Award, and inLinks, the company he founded, won the award for Search Technology of the Year. Dixon is an in-demand conference presenter and frequent keynote speaker. A few places you might've heard Dixon speak include, Pubcon, Brighton SEO, State of Search, and SMX. I caught up with Dixon on the day inLinks was launching their new, super cool social media tool. This is the closest Suds & Search has come to a scoop, so I'm going to ask Dixon all about it. We'll spend most of our time together talking about Dixon's favorite topic, entities. He literally wrote the book titled, “Entity SEO Book: Moving from Strings to Things.” If you really want to learn how Google has evolved its search engine over the years, you might be hard-pressed to find a better expert than Dixon Jones, and he explains complex things in a way that's very accessible. Grab something cold to drink and join me for a conversation with Dixon Jones. We'll chat about disambiguation, how we can learn about the knowledge graph from posters you might find at a pub, and I'll spend a little time chatting about meeting the queen.Subscribe to Suds & Search | Interviews With Today's Search Marketing Experts on Soundwise

On this episode of the SEJ Show, we dive headfirst into the aftermath of Google's momentous May, from I/O to Marketing Live. Join SEJ Editor-in-Chief Amanda Zantal-Wiener in conversation with industry experts Roger Montti and Matt Southern as we dissect the key takeaways and groundbreaking announcements from Google's annual events.  From an abundance of AI announcements to product updates, tune in to learn how to leverage and apply these developments to stay ahead of the curve.   Google announced a lot of things, but they're not shipping anything yet, so it's not like they're flooding the market with all this new stuff that we have to try. There are a lot of announcements, and I find that we have a lot of time to digest them before we can get our hands on them and use them. –Matt Southern, 2:17 The big takeaway that I got from I/O and the way Google is looking to change the search experience, also with GML yesterday changing the advertiser experience is making everything conversational, which by the way, I feel like we've seen this before. Conversational marketing with chatbots etc., was a really big deal. There's a big emphasis on a conversational approach to all these things. –Amanda Zantal-Wiener, 32:22 So it seems both Open AI and Google are afraid of the democratization of AI. Right now, people are building a chatbot for 500 bucks or less, so the technology is out there. People are building their own things, like Jasper AI is working with Cerebras, which provides AI infrastructure, and a lot of people think Jasper AI is just taking a chat GPT feed and modifying it. No, they built their own large language models using the Cerebras infrastructure, and it's very unique to them and very specific–what's called domain-specific. That's going to pose a problem for them, and they want to keep a light on it, in my opinion, but that's why you're seeing the first strike from Google and open AI about the legislation because they want to control what the laws are. –Roger Monttii, 7:17   [00:00] - About Matt & Roger [02:04] - Are things slowing down this summer? [05:50] - The talk about the L-word: Legislation. [12:33] - The white paper on Google's ethics and AI. [17:32] - Initial thoughts on Google's Search Generative Experience (SGE) [22:03] - About Section 230. [32:22] - How do you optimize for the new search experience? [47:15] - How will the new search experience impact accessibility & KPIs? [52:37] - What's the motivation for companies? [58:26] - What's on the horizon?   Resources mentioned: Google I/O: https://io.google/2023/   230 should be amended to account for recommender algorithms which is a relatively new thing that didn't exist. Section 230 was originally formulated to regulate, give a fair forum, and allow free speech. Section 230 is about allowing free speech. But let's face it: When it comes to people advocating harm, it might seem controversial, but there should be limits on free speech because the right to free speech is only the right to have to be able to say what you want and not have government and put laws into it.  Free speech is when I walk into your house or Matt's house, or anybody who's watching. I can't go in there and say whatever the hell I want. You have the right to kick me out. So when you go to a website, whether it's YouTube, Twitter, or some random forum, if you don't can abide by the terms of service that restrict what kind of speech is allowed there, they have the right to kick you out. –Roger Monttii, 27:22 As far as the summer in search, I think that it might slow down, but Google has a history of pushing things without announcing them over to summertime, although there are some updates too. But there's been a history of Google pushing important changes related to how search works during the summer and then announcing it in the fall. –Roger Monttii, 4:13 I was watching the hearing with Sam Altman, and it seemed a little too friendly compared to previous hearings. It's unusual for a company like that to just welcome regulation, almost like they're asking, "please regulate us." –Matt Southern, 10:09 For more content like this, subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/searchenginejournal Are you looking to keep up with current and effective digital marketing today? Check out https://www.searchenginejournal.com for everything you need to know within the digital marketing space and improve your skills as an internet marketer.   Connect With Roger Montti: Roger Montti is a seasoned search marketer boasting over 20 years of experience in the field. He has built a solid reputation for expertise and effectiveness by offering site audits, phone consultations, and content and link strategy assistance.  In addition to being a Head Judge for the 2020 and 2021 U.S. Search Awards, Roger is also a publisher of award-winning websites, showcasing his multifaceted talents within the industry. As a prominent figure in search marketing, Roger has shared his insights at various conferences, including SES, SMX East, SMX West, SMX Advanced Seattle, Affiliate Summit NYC, Affiliate Summit West, and multiple PubCon events. In addition, his writing covers various topics, such as WordPress, Facebook, Google, SEO, and search marketing, further establishing him as a thought leader. Connect with Roger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinibuster/ Follow him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/martinibuster Connect With Matt Southern: Matt G. Southern, a highly respected Senior News Writer, has been integral to the Search Engine Journal team since 2013. With a bachelor's degree in communications, he excels at distilling complex subjects into clear, engaging content.  In addition to writing, Matt is responsible for overseeing strategy development within SEJ's news department, ensuring that the organization remains at the forefront of the digital marketing and search engine optimization landscape. As a trusted source of information, Matt's work at SEJ combines accuracy, quality, and relevance. His dedication to excellence in reporting and commitment to helping others better understand search engines and digital marketing make him an indispensable asset to SEJ and the broader industry. Connect with Matt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgsouthern/ Follow him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MattGSouthern Connect with Amanda Zantal-Wiener, Editor-in-Chief at Search Engine Journal: Follow her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Amanda_ZW  Connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandazantalwiener/ 

Show Resources Here were the resources we covered in the episode: Top Rank Marketing's Site Lee Odden's LinkedIn Lee Odden's Instagram Follow AJ on LinkedIn   NEW LinkedIn Learning course about LinkedIn Ads by AJ Wilcox Youtube Channel Contact us at Podcast@B2Linked.com with ideas for what you'd like AJ to cover. A great no-cost way to support us: Rate/Review! Show Transcript AJ Wilcox Are you using influencer marketing community and thought leadership as part of your LinkedIn Ads strategy? We dive into these topics and more on this week's episode of the LinkedIn Ads Show. Welcome to the LinkedIn Ads Show. Here's your host, AJ Wilcox. AJ Wilcox Hey there LinkedIn Ads fanatics. Today I have a special treat for you. Lee Odden has specialized in B2B marketing for his almost entire career. And I'm grateful to call him a friend. He and I have spoken at many of the same B2B events. Although I have to admit he's oftentimes the keynote, while I'm one of the breakout speakers. But, I've always looked up to him as a mentor and a thought leader and a friend. Today, we have a wide ranging conversation covering everywhere from thought leadership to influencer marketing and building communities in B2B, and I promise as a B2B marketer, you'll get a lot out of this. I wanted to highlight a review here by Alessia Negro. She's a senior sales and marketing executive in the hospitality industry out of Dublin, Ireland. Alessia says, "Absolutely great podcast. I have learned a lot about LinkedIn from this podcast. I think whoever wants to learn LinkedIn ads should follow it." Alessia, thanks so much for the kind words. And I do agree. Although I realized I'm a bit biased. And if you're a regular listener, I want to feature you so make sure to leave a review. And I'll shout you out live here. All right. Without further ado, let's hit it. Alright, we've got Lee Odden, co founder of TopRank Marketing. Lee, thanks so much for joining us. We're super excited to have you here. Lee Odden It's great to be here, AJ. Good to see you. AJ Wilcox Alright, so first off, tell us a little bit more about yourself. Anything that I didn't cover in that rather short and sweet intro. Lee Odden I started in marketing, and basically the late 90s. I was actually got into the website sales game selling websites over the phone to small businesses, believe it or not, people would fax us their brochures and we'd make a website out of that. And then of course, people started asking how are we going to get traffic to these websites that you're making us? And that's where I learned about SEO, you know, about creating doorway pages and, you know, creating different web pages for different search engines AltaVista excite Lycos hotpot, you know, no one has heard of those. But then Google came on the scene and linking, and content became more important blogging, social media, and really, over the last 10 years really leaned into the whole idea of CO creating content with influencers. So ultimately, what we tried to do is help customers be the best answer help our clients, b2b tech companies mostly be the best answer for their customers. And it's worked out really well. And, you know, it's kind of funny, on the path from being a really small agency to serving small customers to now serving large enterprise brands. I took that advice myself, right. So I started blogging, and I started doing the kinds of things to make myself known in the industry as a magnet to the agency. You know what I mean by speaking at events and being active on social and connecting with people who were influential to make myself influential, you know, and it's been a fun ride. And when I'm not doing marketing stuff, I'm usually running running is kind of been my thing during COVID. Basically, when I'm actually training for my first marathon, which is going to happen in four weeks. So I'm pretty excited about that. Oh, that's so AJ Wilcox Exciting! Alright, so what's your preparation for the marathon look like right now? I know, you start to do a lot more mileage as you go. Are you doing like low high mileage right now? Lee Odden Yeah, my highest mileage will be tomorrow. But I did 23 miles last Saturday. And I'll probably do 23.5 or something like that tomorrow. I don't need to do much more. Because the whole race is 26. Yes. So yeah, I've been running more than 13 miles for the last seven weeks or so. I've even run a couple of half marathon races just as a workout, which is kind of a crazy idea. Because a year ago, I was wondering whether I could even run 13 miles, let alone run one quickly. And quickly is subjective quickly to me. Not quickly, compared to a lot of friends of mine that I have out there that are runners that are just smoking it, but it's a great way to get out. It's a disciplined thing. It's a lifestyle thing. Now for me, I feel odd if I haven't run that day. And so it's good for your health. And it's great to have goals, right? Yes, it's great to work towards a goal and having a commitment to a thing that takes a long time is incredibly rewarding when you've been able to reach those milestones, right? And also you connect with a community of other like minded people. And now I'm starting to get all these Instagram posts from running communities with these inside jokes about running and it's like, oh my god, this is so funny, but nobody else cares, nobody else cares. It's fun. AJ Wilcox Well, It's so fulfilling, I think to accomplish something physically, that is hard that you know, other people can't. Before a knee surgery, I used to be a runner. And so I do a half marathon every year and an Olympic trial. And I love those kinds of things. I loved accomplishing something physically, that's awesome. Plus, it gives you insight, because you're already community minded, which we'll talk into more, but it gives you something to compare and think about, as you're developing communities around an interest that people have, you can mentally I think, compare it to like, oh, for me, this is running. But for someone else this is whatever the community is. Lee Odden You know, that's really important insight. There's a lot of value in metaphor analogy, when trying to break down new or complex ideas into something familiar for people. Because in order for those ideas to be adopted, they have to be communicated in a way that people will be willing to receive. And so yeah, that's a great point running as metaphor, or, you know, overcoming challenges. A lot of people, I'm inspired by our fitness people, but what I'm inspired by them about isn't so much about the fitness it's about overcoming challenges and worldview, and, you know, being resilient and those sorts of things. AJ Wilcox Perfect. So jumping back here into B2B, how did you originally get interested in b2b? How did you land? Because my understanding is you're exclusively B2B with your clients, or do you have some VC? Lee Odden Exactly. So my agency top rank marketing did start as SEO and PR firm, I had previously mostly consumer experience in marketing doing SEO for consumer websites. And my partner, though, had been working mostly with B2B tech companies as a director of marketing, VP of marketing. And so over time, well, through her knowledge and experience, I learned a lot more about B2B. And the market was responding in terms of inbound interest in our services from B2B companies. And I have a fun story about the big leap early in our business, we were working remotely. And I was working in my unfinished basement, right. And I had a desk down there. And I got a call and someone asked me if I would come speak at their conference, this company was fortune 15 company. So I had been blogging, I spoke a little bit, people knew about me being able to talk about SEO and public relations. So that was a unique intersection. And they wanted me to come speak at their event. And I spoke one morning to their marketing people. And then they said, Come back tomorrow and talk to all of our PR people. So they were a company that was so big, they brought all their different businesses, all the marketers from their all their different businesses and had a little mini conference. And so the second day, I talked to all the PR people. And my contact said, Hey, one of our senior executives was in the room yesterday. And we wanted to know if we could engage your agency on an ongoing basis. So this is the fortune 15 company was a b2b business unit that wanted to hire us. And we were only four people I'm working out of my unfinished basement. Wow. So of course, I said, yes, absolutely, we can help you out. And we figured it out. And that was a fast track to learning about b2b and learning the language of large, complex organizations, because obviously, that's very different than working with a small or medium sized business. And that laid the groundwork for me and the people that I had to competently be able to serve other b2b companies. Right. So now, Adobe, and you know, we've had experience with companies like SAP and Oracle, I've done work for Microsoft, and a really large telecom that I cannot mention, ever, but you know, biggest one, and so on and so forth. So and LinkedIn, my God, what am I saying, we've been working with LinkedIn for gosh, almost 10 years now, providing content and SEO services. So it's been an interesting ride, and b2b is a great space, because there's so much opportunity to raise the bar, it doesn't have to mean boring, boring, there's a lot of exciting things you can do. And there's so much room for us to be able to do it with because of the longer sales cycles, emphasis on content and education and that sort of thing. AJ Wilcox Well, I'm glad you shared someof them, I get the feeling that a lot of the kinds of clients that you were with are the kind that don't want you saying that you work with them. So it's really good to understand, and from my understanding a lot of the community and many of the thought leaders within LinkedIn that we hear from, I won't say created by you that you're the one behind them, but you're kind of the inspiration there. Do you have any comment or anything to share on that? Lee Odden Well, certainly, it's one thing to make a decision that people within your company should have greater visibility that you want to grow their influence, that you want to facilitate social interaction. But it's another thing to do that with intent with intent in a way that will achieve a particular outcome. So that requires doing some homework developing a strategy and architecting Okay, exactly how are we going to execute this in a way that is best going to accomplish the goal that we're after? So it's not just about tweeting more, or doing a LinkedIn live every once in a while. It's like, okay, what's the topic? And what is the anchor topic? What are the derivative topics? What are the conversations that we can repurpose from that? Who are the content collaborators or influencers on that topic that we can connect with, not only for co creation, but distribution, and so architecting all that stuff is really where the most magic comes from. And then for some companies, we do write content for them. But like I said, a lot of the magic comes in through the strategy and the architecture of the all that, and then of course, the ongoing optimization of performance. And then of course, yeah, and then some content here and there. AJ Wilcox Beautiful. I love it. Alright, so talking about thought leadership, specifically, tell us about why B2B marketers should be investing in being seen as a thought leader. Lee Odden So if you mean is, like B2B marketer, as an executive at a company or B2B marketer, like you and me are B2B marketers. AJ Wilcox Yeah, I think a little bit of everything. I think, executives, I think the frontline workers, everyone in between, like, what's the value? Lee Odden Absolutely. So there's a lot of value in that. We all are familiar with the idea, I think Nielsen came out with this research about how people don't trust brands, and they don't trust advertising. And of course, that's been repeated, by different folks since and it still is a challenge in combination with the overwhelming amount of information available to us. I don't know about you, but my email inbox is more of a monster now than it ever was. I mean, just keeping up is crazy. The social channels and people that I follow, I made a lot of effort to craft who I curate, and listen to, but it's just overwhelming amounts of information. I can only imagine what it might be for other folks who haven't had expertise in curation, right. So being a thought leader being a source of truth, for people who are in need, and let's face it, if you're in marketing, you're in need of up to date information every day, right? Ours is a dynamic industry. And so it's super important and to be competent in our industry, it's really very important that we connect with people that are on the forefront of what's new, what's trending, what's relevant. And so being a thought leader helps you as a person who is capable of original thought, who has something to offer, because that's kind of a prerequisite here, and being able to provide value to others in the industry. So that manifests as community building. It manifests as, you know, customers coming to you saying, hey, AJ, I've been listening to your podcast, and I've heard you talk about LinkedIn ads in this way or that way. It's like, you know, we're actually now in a position to get some help. I'm sure that happens all the time. Natalie, I can tell you from personal perspective, I've had it happen. A million times, it feels like where people say, Haley, I saw you speak last week, I saw you speak 10 years ago. And this is people who want to hire my agency, because I'm when I speak, I tell stories about the work the agency does, as well as just best practices, but also people who want to work for me will say, Yeah, you know, I saw you speak, I've been following your blog. And I'm just wondering if there's an opening, oh, my goodness, this person's amazing. And they're coming to us, you know. So for other folks, if you're an executive at a company, if you want to be listened to, if you want to be relevant, it's not enough for your own brands marketing, to go and put out information you think your customers need to know, buyers are looking for sources of truth. buyers are looking for people, humans that they can relate to, that they can subscribe to, so to speak. And if you have subject matter experts, if you are a subject matter expert, and you have something to offer, then it makes sense for you to go down that thought leadership path and make a connection and create value for those folks out in the industry because you know what they desperately need it. And they're overwhelmed with other information. And so you can actually provide them a service. And guess what, what's going to come back to you is new business. What's going to come back to you is community what's going to come back to you is connection with people who can make things happen. And AJ Wilcox What I hear from you is you actually have to have something to say in order to be a thought leader. So don't strive to be a thought leader for thought leader sake. But strive to be a great business professional, a skilled expert in your field, and then take that to share with others. Lee Odden Yeah, and so there's two things I'd say too, if you don't have that yet, if you're not there yet. I feel like if you're Junior in New York career and you feel like thought leadership is in your future. Two things. One, if you don't have a lot of resources, you could document your journey towards thought leadership. And that actually could help you be a thought leader, as a junior person, you could connect with others who are already thought leaders, they could do things like interviews, you could do things like, get quotes from them, or whatever. And so you can document that journey as you are learning more and more about a particular subject matter. And, you know, hey, I experimented with this. And I found this as an outcome, or I talked to this person. And here's some insight that they shared, I noticed in the news, they're talking about this. And here's what I think about that. documenting that journey can actually help you become a thought leader. The other thing is, if you do have resources, you're at a brand. And you don't know how to do this, you can certainly hire an expert, like an agency, or a PR firm or someone like us who can help you develop a plan for thought leadership, maybe even provide some of the content. And that doesn't happen that often. But it can. AJ Wilcox That's a great point. All right. So we've talked about thought leadership as individuals, what about getting your B2B brand to be seen as a thought leadership brand? Do you have any thoughts? Lee Odden Yeah, absolutely. You know, for companies, it's a huge differentiator in a crowded marketplace to be thought of first, when companies have a problem, and they're thinking of solution providers, right. And thought leadership is something especially in B2B. But you know, in general, it's useful from a marketing PR perspective. But in B2B, especially, these are large considered purchases. So you're not just looking for the best solution, you're looking for a solution that you know, is going to be relevant, and maybe innovative and important for you in the long run. So if a brand invest in thought leadership, and what that means is you're articulating a point of view, and it's validated by third parties. So that means that industry publications and industry influencers that are validating the ideas that you're putting forth, you're putting out original research, you're pointing out points of view, you're creating opportunities for other people who are important voices and trusted voices in the industry to have conversations with your executives with people that represent your brand. And that kind of combination of information, helps people subscribe to your religion, so to speak, they subscribe to your point of view. And they start to rely in trust on you as the source of truth. So a great example is Edelman puts out the trust research. Edelman is a huge, huge agency, obviously, they have a lot of resources. But it's like, you know, you can rely on Edelman's research about how people trust brands or not, year after year, because they continue to put out that research and they have other marketing conversations around that. For our small part. You know, we put out a report on B2B influencer marketing. And it's really been a great way for people to know that there is data, thoughtfulness and expertise behind the fact that we're a source of solution when it comes to working with influencers or content in the B2B marketing space, because we are connecting with third party entities influencers and media to corroborate those ideas, right? So brands is thought leaders super important. If someone's got a problem, don't you want them to think of you first, as a solution? I totally agree. AJ Wilcox I think especially in a crowded marketplace, where you have 15 vendors that you can go to for a CRM and information security service, of course, you're gonna gravitate towards the one that you feel like you have the best relationship with. And I think that comes from the thought leadership that comes from community that comes from being a voice that people want to hear. Absolutely. So I think you've touched a little bit here on parts of the strategy. But if someone wanted to start becoming a thought leader, or having their company be seen as a thought leader, what are the steps, the components that you would tell them? Like, here's the strategy for how you actually start to implement this? Lee Odden That can be a really big answer. So I'll be succinct. If I can, I think the first thing you got to do is, you know, specify what is it that you want to be a thought leader about? There's got to be topic specificity. You can't be a thought leader about all things, right? That's just not resource practical. But you've got to identify that thing that sits at the intersection of how you want to be known and what customers are most interested in. And so be a thought leader about that thing, right? Because that represents what's in demand and relevant to your solutions. And as you make that determination, then all things flow from that. What kind of content will you create? What kind of connections will you make? What kind of cadence will you publish and interact at right? So you get an idea about the resources that are needed in order to put something like that into action, right? There's got to be some consistency and continuity of message from thought leader. So in other words, if I talk about 10 Different things over a period of time, it's like, well, yeah, he talks about a lot of stuff like I guess marketing. But if I'm talking about, you know, B2B content, B2B content marketing, b2b content marketing, I mean, I'm talking about derivative ideas around that concept. But really, it's like, wow, B2B content marketing or B2B influencer marketing, people will come to know you as that very specific thing. So you've got to have some choices made about the topic derivative topics, you've got to think about the publishing platform or platforms, you know, is it the company website, the blog, or social channel? As the center of your hub? And the spokes? Are your distribution channels? Okay, where am I going to amplify this? Am I going to amplify through email? Am I going to pull people in through ads? Am I going to do some media relations and talk about these stories with journalists in the industry? Am I going to connect with industry experts? Am I going to partner with them and collaborate with any of them on initiatives? We have what we like to call best answer strategies, how to be the best answer is really kind of a thought leadership play. And you can do things like this is a practical tactic things. Okay, so let's say you want to be the best answer for a particular thing. It's like, okay, Fast Track way to get on the radar of the most important people in the industry, about that topic is to do what we call an honoring post, right? So it's like a list where the 25 top cybersecurity experts, right, I'm a cybersecurity provider of some kind and finance, right. And so here are the top finance cybersecurity experts. I don't even know if I could find 25 of those, but I'll do my best. And then I reach out to them. And I start to create a relationship with those folks. And I'll simultaneous to that, I might do a small version research, what are the trends, what's happening, and I'll invite those folks to be a part of that research. I'll start a podcast. And as I gain momentum, I might do something like, you know, a list of disparate resources like books, conferences, communities, and so on, and so forth. So I become like this destination around the topic. And that seems like a lot of work. But guess what, there's a lot of competition. And to be the best answer, guess what you've kind of have to be the best source of information, I would just say, as far as a thought leadership strategy, whether it's just you, or whether it's your brand, you don't go it alone, that would be one of the biggest mistakes. And that's why I suggest the idea of connecting with other industry experts, and finding opportunities to collaborate with them, you can start a podcast and become a thought leader on the thing that the podcast is about, that's cool. But if you involve other people, that are also well known about that idea, and you can create collaboration opportunities that create mutual value for you and your collaborators, then everybody wins out true, not just you and the person or people you're collaborating with, but especially the audience that you're trying to attract and engage. AJ Wilcox Oh, so true. I think it's so easy. If you're, let's say scrolling through your LinkedIn feed, and you're saying, I want to be a thought leader, let me see what other people are doing. You see someone is running a live stream, and you're like, oh, maybe I need to run a weekly live stream, and then someone else is running a podcast, and then someone else is recording videos, screenshare and posting them to YouTube, you're like, oh, I have to have a YouTube channel. And when you start taking from all of these ideas, you overextend yourself, because yeah, there isn't a strategy. So what I appreciate so much about what you shared is like this actually is a specific strategy where you can put the blinders on and ignore some of the other methods that other people are doing work on your own. And then you won't overextend yourself, like you can actually do this. Lee Odden Something I learned a long time ago about, you know, being known about a thing is one element, one leg of the stool is document your success, and then duplicate. So be specific, like you're saying, be specific on a particular or very specific channel, grow community on that channel. And you'll get to a point where it's like, wow, now it makes sense for me to extend into some other channels, right. And you can duplicate what you learned in that one channel into others. And that way, you can manage resources appropriately. And you create that continuity of message. And you'll be putting forward the most effective tactics for communication, as opposed to being in a constant state of experimentation. AJ Wilcox Yes. And when you look at what everyone else is doing, a lot of times they have a team that's helping them. And so I think that you can do this all yourself, you know, by the time you've done what you've talked about, which is really building a community around one channel or one thing, by the time it's ready to start expanding into other channels and taking on more things. By that time. You've probably built up more of a team and it's a She realistic, you Lee Odden could do that. Yeah. And then just thinking of myself, I started blogging, my only thing was I just started blogging, I could not write. And I started blogging in that blogging. You know, I always made mention of other people, I was just a way to have a conversation. And then social media came on. And people that read the blog started following me on Twitter, and then LinkedIn. And then I started speaking, and then I wrote a book and you know, just grew organically 100% organically. I did have help with the book. But with the rest, I publish all my own social stuff, I do all my own speaking stuff. And so it does make sense, at least in my case to branch out, you can get help to facilitate and expedite that stuff. But as an individual person, I think topics specificity specific channel is a great thing to get started with and expand from there. AJ Wilcox Oh, amen to that. Here's a quick sponsor break, and then we'll dive back into the interview. The LinkedIn Ads Show is proudly brought to you by B2Linked.com, the LinkedIn Ads experts. AJ Wilcox Managing LinkedIn Ads is a massive time and money investment. You want a return on some of that investment? Consider booking a discovery call with B2Linked, the original LinkedIn ads performance agency, we've worked with some of the largest accounts over the past 12 years, and our unique scientific approach to ADS management, combined with our proprietary tools that allow us to confidently optimize and scale your LinkedIn Ads faster and more efficiently than any other agency in house team, or digital ads hire plus or official LinkedIn partners. Just navigate on over to B2Linked.com/apply. And we'd absolutely love the chance to get to work with you. All right, let's jump back into the interview with Leo. Alright, so let's shift gears now talking about influencer marketing, because I know you've done a lot with influencers. We probably see a lot of influencers in b2c we have for a long time, hate actors and celebrity involvement. But in B2B, I think this is a little fresher. And I think a little bit more new. What can you tell us about how B2B marketers should be thinking about leveraging influencers in B2B? Lee Odden We're kind of in a do more with less age, right? There's a lot of marketers pulling back right now B2B tech especially. And, you know, a lot of folks are looking for what are the most effective things I can be doing? Because the demands on delivering on mid to end to funnel KPIs, you know, forget about brand, right, are really high on people's lists. Well, the B2B Institute at LinkedIn did some research. And they found that at any given time, 95% of buyers are not in market, they're out market, right for any solution and only 5% are in a position like, yeah, we need a solution. And so that's not changed. Well, why influencers? Well, here's the thing, you know, you've got factors that are working against you, as a marketer, in this environment where you got to do more with less, we've got to produce, we've got to get results, we've got to react to this economic environment that we're in. And people are as buyers, you know, they are confronted with this information overload that we talked about before they are struggling to find single sources of truth. Who do they trust, they don't trust advertising. They don't trust brands a lot of the time, but they do trust people, they trust people that they follow. And so the idea of what would happen if you're able to connect with the most trusted voices in your industry? What if you're able to collaborate with them on creating content that was super targeted, super valuable to your buyers, and you're able to build a community of subscribers to a regular cadence of that kind of content, imagine how much more effective you'd be at reaching buyers that are actually going to pay attention, versus, you know, singularly relying on interruptive types of communications, right. And so influencers can play a very important role, not for everybody, but for a lot of companies that want to break through and want to attract and engage with buyers, that are really relying on industry experts that are influenced by people who are the thought leaders in the industry, right? And so there are very effective ways in which marketing programs can be put forward, that are creating content of value, of course, but our collaborations with these industry experts, so it's not just like every influencer is the same. It's not like I'm gonna think of a B2B marketing influencer and handling right? And Haley's, a wonderful, wonderful human being. But just because an Hanley is in a piece of ebook that we make or a video we make doesn't mean that's going to solve all problems. And handle is really broadly known as a very unique individual. She has both broad popularity, and she's actually super competent about her discipline. And so she's a unicorn in that way. So she's actually going to help satisfy bringing people in that don't haven't even heard of you, and actually start to consider you because she has that discipline, competency, about copywriting about content marketing, and that sort of stuff. But not all influencers are like that. So it's not just about working with influencers, it's about okay, how do we pair the right kinds of influencers for different stages of the buying cycle, for example, you know, the most popular influencers, those, you know, the pro influencers, they're doing keynotes. They're publishing books all the time. They're professionally famous in the B2B world, in their respective industry. Those are people you use to attract top of funnel types of outcomes. But then you work with people who are actual practitioners in an area, they can actually speak authoritatively on the discipline. So whether they're super user, whether they're a customer, or whatever, for those middle end to funnel types of content, assets, right. So you kind of line things up. So influencers are important, because everyone is influential, but everyone is influenced on a daily basis in some way. And you can architect programs that not only make your brand more relevant, and more credible, and can reach people that you're not reaching with your ads. But over time, you can build relationships with these most trusted voices in your industry in a way that they are starting to organically advocate for you. And that's priceless, right most valuable form of advertising word of mouth, if you can facilitate that as priceless. Oh, totally true. AJ Wilcox I have noticed in B2C influencers, usually they're paid off in some way. But in B2B, I see a lot of influencers, gotten through collaboration opportunities, and a lot of times money doesn't even have to exchange hands, you're doing something that's mutually beneficial to both of these companies are influencers audiences. Yeah, and you know, that's becoming more of an art to achieve that. Lee Odden So we started doing influencer marketing for B2B brands back in 2012. So back then, yes, it was true that the vast majority of influencer engagements were what we call organic. In the case of B2B influencer marketing, most of the influencers are contributing to content that lives on the brand channels. So if a person who's really well known in their particular subject matter area, could be seen in combination with a major brand, that's really credibility building for them, right. So they're creating influence for each other in that way. And so they'd be happy to do it for free, so to speak, obviously, it has to do with the ask too, if I ask someone for a quote, you know, no problem. But if I asked someone to write me 1000 word article, these days, that's probably going to cost something if I want them to write an article every month, that's gonna cost something. So it used to be maybe 90%, were organic 10% were paid way back in the day. Nowadays, it's like 60/40 60% might be organic activations, and 40% are paid. And that paid number is going up and up and up, as more people who are influential in the B2B space are creating media properties for themselves, right, they've got a really established podcast, they're part of a network of podcasts, you know, they're a blogger, or increasingly video assets of some kind, right? And so they're able to not only just say one nice thing about the brand, but they're actually able to put together a package of social distribution and content assets and this and that we're even, you know, do reports, and so on and so forth. So it's great, though, to have that mutual value, it's important to find something that you have in common with the influencer. And in some cases, they may want to contribute, because it's an easy Ask, and it aligns with what they want to do, and it doesn't cost you anything. And it could be that's the first thing you do. But then you might follow up and say, Wow, that was amazing. We'd really like to do to do this more robust thing, how much would that cost? And they're going to appreciate that. And trust me, when you pay an influencer. It's awesome, of course, for the influencer, but it's awesome for your brand, because now you've hired them. They are accountable to delivering to a specification. Whereas if you engage with people organically, and they say, Yeah, sure, I'll give you that thing by next Thursday. And if they don't, you have no recourse. You can't count on it. Right. They're not signing an agreement. So paying influencers is actually a really good thing. It's up to you to negotiate and to do your due diligence as far as who they are and their ability to deliver and have impact. AJ Wilcox Beautiful. I want to switch gears to talking about community because we've mentioned community several times. Yeah, you've put a lot of value and community over your career here in B2B, what role do you see communities playing in B2B. Lee Odden community is hugely important, I think because so many buyers are going to rely on their peers for recommendations. I mean, think you've probably had it happen I know I have. It's like, we go to remote work, and we need a new phone system that we can work, you know, so I don't know who to go to. So I asked a friend of mine, I go to a group community that I'm part of, and I say, Hey, does anybody know what's a good phone system? And this isn't real. But you know, I'm thinking of a silly example. And this happens every day. Right? And so being present with a community is important for b2b because it helps make you relevant, right? I talked about that expression being the best answer, right? Being a thought leader, being first choice means being where your customers are. And certainly your customers are part of different communities. So you have a couple of choices. You can be present in communities where your customers are, and you can exchange value, you can be a participant and you know, answer questions and interact or whatever your salespeople can or whoever, or you could create communities, right, you could say, Look, you know, we see that there's a common interest here, there's something that we can solve for. And it's not something we can do by ourselves. Why don't you join us at helping solve this problem together? Or why don't you join us on this journey to making our industry a better place, we actually are at the beginning of building a community around elevate b2b, right, elevate b2b marketing. And you know, we want to make b2b marketing a better place. And there are different messaging pillars that go along with that marketing, that is more experiential marketing, that is more inclusive, marketing that is more focused on connection, right community building, that sort of thing. So community is super important, I think, to be relevant, to be relevant. And first choice to customers in spaces where they're actually spending time. And where there can be a value exchange, right? It's one thing to provide useful content or utility to your customers through content marketing. It's another thing for you to create a place where as a brand, where your customers can connect with you, but also they can connect with each other. And there's a lot of momentum that can come from that. So I think community is super important. And when it comes to influencer marketing, same thing, you can engage with influencers on an individual basis, and that's fine. But when you can create a community of influencers that can connect with each other, in the context of your brand is solving Wow, now you have something really powerful right, that you can go to market with. And that can have a much bigger impact than these little one off campaigns, people are kind of dipping their toe in the water with here and there. Perfect. AJ Wilcox Alright, so lead, tell us what are those components to creating a community, especially as we're thinking about it for b2b? Lee Odden So as I mentioned, with, you know, thought leadership, I think that idea of topics specificity? Well, it's around the problems that you're trying to solve for, or the things that you stand for, that would be best served by the community. Right? So what's the glue that's going to hold this community together? What is the common interest that they have that aligns with that intersection of what it is that you stand for as a brand? And what's interesting to your customers, right? You also have to define who's going to be part of this community? How is the community get a function? There are other practical questions to be answered? Like, what platform are you going to use? And who are going to be your champions and your moderators? And what are the goals that you have for the community in terms of messaging penetration, in terms of size, in terms of engagement, and ultimately, you have to be accountable to some sort of ROI, right? And with any marketing initiative, those things all need to be defined, right? So sometimes community can start very intentionally. Yeah, there's communities is starting all the time where people just start in a LinkedIn, LinkedIn group or Facebook group or something like that. And it's just like, hey, and they invite a couple of other people who have a common interest. And it just starts organically and they start inviting, who do you know, that we can invite into this community and so on and so forth, or community could be an extension of an event? I think about marketing profs, and their marketing community, right, or Content Marketing Institute, has a whole community, but they also have an event, right? There's a marketing conference called PubCon that's been around. It's an SEO conference been around forever. And there's absolutely a community, you know, that is tied to that event where people you know, get to actually meet in person. So, you have to make choices about what is the purpose of the community, what are the topics that You're gonna cover what problems you're going to try and solve. And then you gotta identify some champions, some people who are going to help facilitate conversations, there's technology choices to make. And then obviously, you got to set up what kind of goals you're trying to achieve, not just for yourself, but the goals for the community itself. Well, selfishly, this AJ Wilcox is an awesome conversation, because we're actually just getting ready to launch our LinkedIn ads, courses and community all together. And so I'm paying special attention here. So thanks for the free advice. What are some of the phases that you'd actually go through in building and then scaling the community app? What should we keep in mind as we actually go to build this? Lee Odden Well, you know, again, you've got to think about some sort of milestone goals. Maybe the first phase is simply, you know, creating the architecture of the community. And as it relates to the major topics, the subtopics, and getting people involved that represent relevance and interest around those topics, inviting them to be actually be a part and then you've got to decide, okay, what are we going to offer them, right? You're so you're offering courses? Or you're offering opportunities for roundtables or discussions? Are you giving them visibility opportunities, and, you know, set some goals for that first milestone of having a certain level of participation. Maybe your first phase is very private. And no one knows about it, except, you know, those early invitees. And we've seen this demonstrated by the social networks that have all popped up all over the place over the last 20 years, or 15 years. And then maybe once you get to a certain threshold or milestone of participation, then you open it up, you know, more publicly as a phase out. And this is what I've observed being successful. One thing though, that, I think what happens is, there's a lot of excitement about anything new. And it's going to be really important to keep that excitement alive. And so you've got to allocate resources to a community manager, or managers that are not only going to be moderating stuff, but are going to be paying attention to what's the ebb and flow from a topic interest standpoint, from a content format standpoint, and adjusting and optimizing. Because if you do the same stuff, six months or a year into your community, it's probably going to peter out, right? If you're not responsive to where the community is growing and showing interest, you're, you're going to lose them probably. So hopefully, I think that's something to look forward to. That's something to anticipate from a face standpoint, maybe, you know, not every community has to start as an exclusive thing. That seems to work really well, though. And then it evolves into an inclusive thing, as there's something of more substance for people to experience, once you open the doors to all. I love it. AJ Wilcox Haley, just kind of off the wall question here for you specifically about LinkedIn ads. I mean, we've talked about communities, we've talked about thought leadership and influencers. One of the new features that's going to be coming out here in the next I would estimate one to three months that LinkedIn has are these thought leadership ads, where we're going to be able to boost personal posts, rather than rely on boosting or creating posts that come from the company for something like this coming out. What role do you see this playing? Do you have any feedback or thoughts or advice for us marketers? In thinking about the new ad format? Lee Odden I'm super excited about that. Because we know that things can get lost in the stream, but not so much about being able to put money behind a thought leadership posts for an individual. It's just like, you know, the targeting, how can we make sure how can we increase our ability for people that we want to see this thought leadership content? Well, other than through a feature like this, right. So I think that's super, super important. And, you know, we've already talked about the importance of individual thought leadership. And by the way, we did some research in our influencer marketing report about the value of executive influence and executive thought leadership at 65% of the companies that were engaging with building their executives, as thought leaders, said that that effort elevated the influence of the brand itself, right. So something like this being able to augment organic content at the individual level with LinkedIn thought leadership ads. Excellent, excellent opportunity. And, again, it'll really help people be able to be a little more intentional and targeted about what's showing up to who, and I think will really give those advertisers a big advantage over those who are relying on just the organic visibility that happens when you post normally I AJ Wilcox love that. All right, so final switch of gears here. What are you most excited about professionally right now? I'd love to ask the same question about what are you most excited about personally? Lee Odden Well, professionally, you know, we are celebrating our 22nd year in business this year. So that's amazing. That is amazing. Wow. And, you know, we made some strategic hires recently in marketing and sales. And we're launching a fresh brand fresh brand new website and blog will be launching with hundreds and hundreds of articles on content, search and influence, and a lot of really cool features, but a really well architected brand, and messaging and all that stuff. So I'm super excited about it. We haven't launched a new website in 10, fit 12 years, and we haven't really had a professional brand engagement with like a branding agency ever, never ever. So I'm super excited about that. Launching for influencer marketing here, late summer, and lots of other things happening. So I'm super excited about that great team. Yeah, an even bigger things plan that can't even talk about later on this year. So I'm super excited about that. I'd say at the intersection of personal and professional, I get to speak at a conference, the biggest conference for b2b in France, next month in Paris. Wow. And then a week later, I get to speak at the largest b2b conference in the UK, in London. So I'm super excited about that. And then I get to visit a client of ours in Geneva in between. So you know, that's pretty awesome. Get to do a little travel, get to do a little business abroad. And there you go. AJ Wilcox That's a lot to be excited about. All right. So I've caught a couple of the resources that you've kind of mentioned here. You talked about the Elevate b2b marketing community, you've talked about your influencer marketing report, I will put the links to those down below in the show notes for anyone. But as for resources, what would you like this LinkedIn ads audience to do what you want them to come follow you contact you in some way? Join the community, download a report, like, what do you have that we should be paying attention to? Lee Odden Absolutely check out top rank marketing.com. Our blog is there as well. With those actually, it's more than hundreds, it's 1000s of articles. But it's probably in the hundreds of those that are most recent and relevant. Yeah, toprank marketing.com, people obviously can connect with me on the socials, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, to see all the crazy food that I eat and all the running that I'm doing and other thing and travel especially, that's always fun, le e o d, d, e n. Yeah. And that's where we're going to announce our report. And we've got a enterprise brand, influencer marketing report coming out very, very quickly, we have a search intent report that's out already. So lots of fun resources there. And also, I have to say, if you're in the LinkedIn ads audience, if you're not already, you've got to be subscribing to the LinkedIn marketing blog. The LinkedIn ads blog, for sure. Also, in the LinkedIn Collective is another great resource over at LinkedIn. That's a great example of LinkedIn, own thought leadership. And of course, the b2b Institute is another great resource at LinkedIn. And you know, my disclaimer is that yes, LinkedIn is a client. But these are resources I, myself personally, rely on quite a bit. AJ Wilcox Perfect. Well, Lee, thank you so much for sharing your mountain of knowledge here. I'm grateful to get to hear it. Everyone, please go follow Lea, check out the resources that he and his company have come up with Lee, thanks again so much. And we'd love to have you on for around two sometime down the road. Super. Thanks, AJ, I appreciate it. I've got the episode resources for you coming right up. So stick around. Thank you for listening to the LinkedIn Ads Show. Hungry for more? AJ Wilcox, take it away. AJ Wilcox All right, like we talked about with Lee, if you go to his site, top rank marketing.com. And we have links to that down in the show notes. You can get access to everything, all the reports and everything he was talking about. You'll also see his three social media handles there in the show notes, his LinkedIn, his Twitter and his Instagram links. So go follow him stay caught up on what he's doing. He's constantly sharing gold. I'm telling you, if you or anyone you know, is looking to learn more about LinkedIn ads, check out the course that I did on LinkedIn learning all about LinkedIn ads. It's by far the lowest cost and the highest production value course that there is out there. If this is your first time listening, welcome. Thanks for coming. Make sure to hit that subscribe button if you've liked what you've heard. If this is not your first time listening, though, please do go and rate and review us. Usually it's Apple podcasts, but anywhere where you can leave a review. That is by far the best way that you can say thanks for us putting out this content week after week with any questions, suggestions or corrections about what we talked about here, reach out to us at Podcast@B2Linked.com. And with that being said, we'll see you back here next week. Cheering you on in your LinkedIn Ads initiatives.

Amanda Milligan talks with Jason Barnard about improve your brand authority with newsworthy content. Amanda Milligan is Head of Marketing at Stacker Studio, a new, innovative way for brands to earn media at scale. With more than a decade of experience in content, growth, and brand, her knowledge has been featured in Entrepreneur, Forbes, TechCrunch, Moz, MarketingProfs, Search Engine Land, and more, as well as at conferences like SMX, MozCon, SearchLove, BrightonSEO, State of Search, and Pubcon. To stand out in the competitive content creation market, it is critical to offer content that is unique and newsworthy. Businesses should focus on providing information that adds value and relevance to the lives of their target audience. Creating content that stands out helps brands build authority and credibility in the industry, which in turn can increase discoverability. In this fantastic episode, Amanda Milligan highlights the importance of creating original content that offers a fresh perspective. By working with authoritative sources within the industry, businesses can present information that is both new and credible, which increases their brand's reputation and provides a competitive advantage. Throughout the conversation, Amanda provides examples of different types of newsworthy content, such as case studies and testimonials, that companies can consider for their content strategies. As always, the show ends with passing the baton… Amanda sweetly passes the virtual baton to next week's awesome guest, Gaurav Sharma. What you'll learn from Amanda Milligan 00:00 Amanda Milligan and Jason Barnard  01:46 Creating Newsworthy Content 03:22 Amanda Milligan's Brand SERP on Bing 05:42 Identifying Authoritative Sources 07:54 Repeating Yourself to Educate AI Algorithms 08:30 Stacker's Brand SERP on Google 12:54 Kalicube's Three Solutions for Your Brand SERP 13:53 Brand Authority for Whom 16:19 Originality, Usefulness, and Newsworthiness 19:19 Topical VS Tangential Content 26:27 Combination of Repetition and Authoritativeness 29:26 How Can Newsworthy Content Help with Branded Search? 31:40 Passing the Baton: Amanda Milligan to Gaurav Sharma This episode was recorded live on video May 2nd 2023

Amanda Milligan talks with Jason Barnard about improve your brand authority with newsworthy content. Amanda Milligan is Head of Marketing at Stacker Studio, a new, innovative way for brands to earn media at scale. With more than a decade of experience in content, growth, and brand, her knowledge has been featured in Entrepreneur, Forbes, TechCrunch, Moz, MarketingProfs, Search Engine Land, and more, as well as at conferences like SMX, MozCon, SearchLove, BrightonSEO, State of Search, and Pubcon. To stand out in the competitive content creation market, it is critical to offer content that is unique and newsworthy. Businesses should focus on providing information that adds value and relevance to the lives of their target audience. Creating content that stands out helps brands build authority and credibility in the industry, which in turn can increase discoverability. In this fantastic episode, Amanda Milligan highlights the importance of creating original content that offers a fresh perspective. By working with authoritative sources within the industry, businesses can present information that is both new and credible, which increases their brand's reputation and provides a competitive advantage. Throughout the conversation, Amanda provides examples of different types of newsworthy content, such as case studies and testimonials, that companies can consider for their content strategies. As always, the show ends with passing the baton… Amanda sweetly passes the virtual baton to next week's awesome guest, Gaurav Sharma. What you'll learn from Amanda Milligan 00:00 Amanda Milligan and Jason Barnard  01:46 Creating Newsworthy Content 03:22 Amanda Milligan's Brand SERP on Bing 05:42 Identifying Authoritative Sources 07:54 Repeating Yourself to Educate AI Algorithms 08:30 Stacker's Brand SERP on Google 12:54 Kalicube's Three Solutions for Your Brand SERP 13:53 Brand Authority for Whom 16:19 Originality, Usefulness, and Newsworthiness 19:19 Topical VS Tangential Content 26:27 Combination of Repetition and Authoritativeness 29:26 How Can Newsworthy Content Help with Branded Search? 31:40 Passing the Baton: Amanda Milligan to Gaurav Sharma This episode was recorded live on video May 2nd 2023

In today's world, we are bombarded with information from all sides. As a result, it can be hard to know what is newsworthy and what is not.  Matt Southern and Roger Montti, SEJ's news writers, joined Amanda Zantal-Wiener, Editor-In-Chief at SEJ, to discuss how to determine what is worth following and how to avoid being overwhelmed by the information deluge. These experts talk about information overload, marketing, and data science to share tips on how to stay informed without being overwhelmed. Matt and Roger share their experiences with information overload and how they have learned to manage it. If you are overwhelmed by the information, this episode is for you. We will help you learn how to navigate the information jungle and stay informed without being stressed out.   I filter the information according to what I find interesting professionally and personally and what I think the audience would be interested in. I'm especially interested in things that are novel or under-covered but are essential for people to know. That's one of the reasons why I started covering more of the WordPress stuff as well as Wix. –Roger Montti, 3:14 Covering John Mueller, it's always interesting to decipher what he's trying to say, what he wants to say…he addresses people with the understanding that they have a high level of knowledge of SEO, and that's only sometimes the case for people who can benefit from the information he has to share. So I like to take the data he's sharing, which is usually communicated at a high level, and distill it into smaller parts and try to break it down into a language everyone can understand. –Matt Southern, 18:01 I see breaking news as two things. The first one is the fact: “This happened.” The second part is “What does that mean and how does that impact people?”...So you must balance the speed and being out there with the news and saying, “this happened.” But then we can also revert to what happened, do an article about what it means, and bring in other people who might have interesting insights into it. –Roger Montti, 7:38   [00:00] - Meet Matt & Roger. [01:26] - Understanding information overload. [05:34] - Keeping content timely and relevant amidst rapid news flow. [09:18] - How to strike a balance between reader engagement & SEO rankings. [15:24] - Best practices for tackling inaccurate information. [17:31] - Tips and insights for covering statements from authority figures. [19:56] - Providing the right historical context: A key to effective writing. [23:41] - Should you always credit who covered a topic first? [27:15] - How to avoid falling down a rabbit hole when researching a topic. [33:52] - How to craft compelling personas for better writing. [40:57] - Nerdy conversations: How nerdy is too nerdy? [44:55] - How to keep repetitive topics interesting when writing. [49:35] - The experts' views on the legal drama surrounding generative AI and innovation. [56:24] - How writers are using generative AI: Matt & Roger's perspectives. [58:10] - What our experts are writing about right now.   There are three main factors I focus on when choosing a topic. First is audience interests. Then, industry relevance. And then, I find out where there are some content gaps. To prioritize that information, I considered the overall impact on the readers and the timeliness of how it aligns with our editorial goals. So putting all that together and understanding everyone's needs, what we want to communicate and what the readers want to get out of it and keeping myself informed along the way. –Matt Southern, 6:04 Roger and I have a similar philosophy. We both like short, concise non-click baiting titles. That philosophy satisfies both sides of what we're trying to balance: ranking and audience. With ranking, you want to mention the most important keyword as close to the beginning of the title as possible. If you do that, you're also accomplishing the goal of grabbing the audience's attention. –Matt Southern, 11:59 When I write anything, I focus on the benefit to the reader and what information is beneficial. Sometimes you have to ask how that impacts me. Put yourself in their seat…What do I do as a Content writer or as an SEO? How does that impact them? …When you write about something complicated, you have to slow it out and explain the jargon so that people can follow along can understand why it's important. –Roger Montti, 28:38   For more content like this, subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/searchenginejournal Are you looking to keep up with current and effective digital marketing today? Check out https://www.searchenginejournal.com for everything you need to know within the digital marketing space and improve your skills as an internet marketer.   Connect With Roger Montti: Roger Montti is a seasoned search marketer boasting over 20 years of experience in the field. He has built a solid reputation for expertise and effectiveness by offering site audits, phone consultations, and content and link strategy assistance.  In addition to being a Head Judge for the 2020 and 2021 U.S. Search Awards, Roger is also a publisher of award-winning websites, showcasing his multifaceted talents within the industry. As a prominent figure in search marketing, Roger has shared his insights at various conferences, including SES, SMX East, SMX West, SMX Advanced Seattle, Affiliate Summit NYC, Affiliate Summit West, and multiple PubCon events. In addition, his writing covers various topics, such as WordPress, Facebook, Google, SEO, and search marketing, further establishing him as a thought leader. Connect with Roger on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinibuster/ Follow him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/martinibuster   Connect With Matt Southern: Matt G. Southern, a highly respected Senior News Writer, has been integral to the Search Engine Journal team since 2013. With a bachelor's degree in communications, he excels at distilling complex subjects into clear, engaging content.  In addition to writing, Matt is responsible for overseeing strategy development within SEJ's news department, ensuring that the organization remains at the forefront of the digital marketing and search engine optimization landscape. As a trusted source of information, Matt's work at SEJ combines accuracy, quality, and relevance. His dedication to excellence in reporting and commitment to helping others better understand search engines and digital marketing make him an indispensable asset to SEJ and the broader industry. Connect with Matt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgsouthern/ Follow him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MattGSouthern Connect with Amanda Zantal-Wiener, Editor-in-Chief at Search Engine Journal: Follow her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Amanda_ZW  Connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandazantalwiener/

Get up to speed with the Digital Marketing News and Updates from the week of Mar 13-17, 2023.1. Meta Launches Paid Verification Program - Meta has announced that it's making its new Meta Verified program available to users in the US, which means that American users will now be able to purchase a blue checkmark on Facebook or Instagram for $US11.99 per month on the web, or $US14.99 in-app, accounting for respective App Store charges. As per the Meta Verified guidelines, you actually need to sign up to each platform separately to get a checkmark on each. Meta Verified requires users to provide photo ID to prove their identity. So you'd be paying at least $US23.98 per month to get a blue tick in both apps, which equates to $US 287.76 per annum to buy the perception of credibility. After verification is complete, you can sign-up to the program which will give you: A verification tick on Facebook or IG Proactive account protection from impersonation Dedicated account support from Meta's team Exclusive stickers for Facebook and Instagram Stories and Facebook Reels 100 Stars a month to allocate to other creators on Facebook Elon Musk is saying “You're Welcome Zuck!”. After all, he is the one who started this trend.P.S: My analysis is in the show.2. Twitter Launches ‘Unskippable' Video Marketing Education Course - Twitter has launched ‘Unskippable', a new, eight-part educational series on video marketing, and how to create video promos that stand out in the Twitter feed. The new series aims to provide a practical overview of all the key elements of thumb-stopping video clips. Each video in the series is around 2 minutes long, making it easily consumable, without a major time investment. The tips and advice in the series come via Twitter's own creative team, which 'helps advertisers produce thousands of top-performing ads on the platform every year'.The new series is part of Twitter's ‘Flight School' education platform, which is available for free, and provides insights into key Twitter advertising best practices.And now may be a good time to test out Twitter ads, since around 70% of Twitter's top advertisers have reportedly stopped or reduced their Twitter spending, as a result of Elon Musk's changes at the app.3. LinkedIn Adds AI-Generated Profile Summaries and Job Listings - LinkedIn's adding a new GPT-powered tool that will provide personalized writing suggestions for creating your LinkedIn profile. To get started, tap on the ‘Start' button, select what you want it to create, and the system will come up with your LinkedIn profile summary, based on your info, and samples from millions of user entries. The system will use OpenAI's GPT models to generate these new summaries, which could make it much easier to put together a good representation of your skills and experience, without you having to come up with a creative way to stand out.LinkedIn's also testing a new AI-powered job description tool, which will make it faster and easier to write job descriptions. Here is what LinkedIn wrote in the announcement: “When you're ready to post a job, simply provide some basic information, including the job title and company name. Our tool will then generate a suggested job description for you to review and edit, saving you time and effort while still giving you the flexibility to customize it to your needs. By streamlining this part of the hiring process, you can focus your energy on more strategic aspects of your job.”4. Microsoft Testing Ads For Doctors & Clinics - Microsoft has announced another vertical ad option for medical professionals named Doctor and Clinic Ads. This is an open beta available in the United States, Australia, India, Germany, France, Canada, and the United Kingdom.Doctor and Clinic Ads are intent-triggered based on search for conditions, symptoms, specialists, and more. These rich placements provide real-time information to consumers and inspire action, all with no keywords required. Bing said they are dynamically generated based on the data you specify in your feed file, such as specialties, locations, and service type—in-person/video. The more details you provide in the feed file, the more information Bing can include in your ads and better match your ads to the user's intent. Other things to know about Doctor & Clinic Ads: The auction for Doctor and Clinic Ads is independent from Text Ads. You can participate in the Doctor and Clinic Ads auction with the campaign associated to your feed file and also participate in the Text Ad auction with your regular campaigns. The Doctor and Clinic Ads auction is cost-per-click (CPC)-based. Feed automation is supported through scheduling to easily keep up with any changes you make. It's Recommend that you start with $100–$500 per day. You can bring your own data in the form of audience lists. With Microsoft Audience Network, healthcare providers can display their ads on a network of trusted websites, apps, and social media platforms. They can also target their ads to specific audiences, such as people interested in health and wellness, or people searching for healthcare services.It's good to see Microsoft/Bing expanding capabilities in their ad offerings. I think Google invests in hiring more offshore reps to try to dupe advertisers into spending more and more, instead of delivering results for advertisers.5. Google: You Should Ignore Spammy Referral Traffic - What should you do if you get a lot of referral traffic from a spammy domain? Well that's exactly what Tom asked Google's John Muller. And to that Google's John Mueller said when it comes to spammy referral traffic, you can ignore it and not worry about it regarding SEO.p.s: If you care to know what & how I feel on this topic then listen/watch the show recording.  6. Google: Writing Content In Less Common Languages Is Not Automatically Low Quality - What do you do if you have a site with pages that contains less common languages? For example Cebuano that is spoken by approximately 22M people.Google's John Mueller said lesser-used or known languages published on the web are not considered low-quality content just because they are lesser known. The page can have words in any language or script, our systems will try to index it appropriately, and try to show it to users who search for those words. It doesn't matter if there's no ISO 639-1 country code for it. If this is good content for a niche audience, I would absolutely *not* remove it from indexing. Good content is good content. Your site won't be "penalized" for content in an obscure language. (But also, thin content is thin content, regardless of which language it's in.)7. Google: Stop Using The Disavow Tool - The link disavow tool has been covered in the past (ep-137: Stop Wasting Your Time By Disavowing Random Links Flagged By Disavow Tools). Thai week, Farhad asked John Muller this question: ”How would an ordinary webmaster or SEO marketing exec know whether or not to spend time disavowing spam links to their domain?”John Muller in response to a disavow link services, said, "Some people do things that they can bill, regardless of whether it's needed or makes sense. To be honest, anyone who does not know, should *not* use it. That's why the tool is not a part of the search console UI. That's why our messaging has been consistently to not use it unless you know there's an actual issue. To paraphrase: When in doubt, leave disavow out." So stop using the link disavow tool unless you have a manual action.Also recently Gary Illyes from Google reiterated his disavow advice saying at PubCon not to use it. He repeated that it hurts more than it helps for the most part.8. Google: Nesting Structured Data Is Always Better - Google's Lizzi Sassman answered a question in a Google SEO Office hours session about whether it's okay to combine different structured data types. Combining multiple structured data is called nesting.She said “Nesting your structure data can help us understand what the main focus of the page is. For example, if you put recipe and review at the same level, it's not as clear as telling us that the page is a recipe with a nested review. This means that the primary purpose of the page would be a recipe and that the review is a smaller component of that.”Her answer illuminated an important point about how Google interprets structured data.  and whether it's better to combine structured data or two separate them out. 9. Google Launches Broad Core Algorithm Update - Google Search has announced that they have rolled out the first broad core update of the 2023 year, and this one is named the March 2023 broad core update. It began on March 15, 2023, at about 10:30 am ET and can take about two weeks to roll out. This is a global update impacting all regions, in all languages. The goal of this update is to reward great web pages so some pages will be bumped off the list. Read below if you want a deeper explanation on what a core update is and what it means for you.Several times a year, Google makes significant, broad changes to their search algorithms and systems. They refer to these as core update. Core updates are designed to ensure that overall, they're delivering on their mission to present helpful and reliable results for searchers through improving how their systems assess content overall. These changes may cause some pages that were previously under-rewarded to do better in search results.One way to think of how a core update operates is to imagine you made a list of the top 100 movies in 2021. A few years later in 2024, you refresh the list. It's going to naturally change. Some new and wonderful movies that never existed before will now be candidates for inclusion. You might also reassess some films and realize they deserved a higher place on the list than they had before. The list will change, and films previously higher on the list that move down aren't bad. There are simply more deserving films that are coming before them.Pages that experience a change after a core update should focus on ensuring it is still offering the best content.  Also consider an audit of the drops you may have experienced. What pages were most impacted and for what types of searches? Look closely at these to understand how these pages may perform against the self-assessment questions. For example, there may be other pages that are doing a better job of helping the searcher because they have first-hand knowledge on that topic. You might also have others you trust (that are unaffiliated with your site) provide an honest assessment. You can also review Google's advice on how to recover from a core update ranking drop.P.S: Like I always say, unless SEO & Search Marketing is your full-time job, work with a reputable agency who can guide you through this process.

Get up to speed with the Digital Marketing News and Updates from the week of Feb 27-Mar 3, 2023.1. PSA: US TikTok Ban Moves a Step Closer - More bad news for TikTok, with the US House Foreign Affairs Committee voted to give President Joe Biden the power to ban the Chinese-owned app, if he deems such a move necessary, amid ongoing security discussions around its potential connection to the Chinese Communist Part (CCP).TikTok responded to the vote by tweeting that “A U.S ban on TikTok is a ban on the export of American culture and values to the billion-plus people who use our  service worldwide…”While Today's announcement doesn't give Biden the full green light to ban the app, with the US Senate still required to give sign-off before a ban could be implemented. But it's another step towards that next stage, which increasingly feels like it will lead to a TikTok ban, or at the least, a significant change in direction for the app.Remember that TikTok, along with 58 other Chinese-created apps, was banned completely in India by the Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology on 29 June 2020. So if you are relying on traffic from TikTok then it is high time you diversify your traffic sources.2. Google Shares How Its Keyword-Matching System For Search Ads Work - Google has released a 28 page comprehensive guide during Google Search Ads Week 2023, providing a unique behind-the-scenes glimpse into its keyword-matching system for search ads.To achieve better results, advertisers can optimise their campaigns by gaining an understanding of Google Ads keyword-matching process.Google's guide provides a comprehensive breakdown of the system, which includes how the company utilises machine learning and natural language understanding technologies to determine keyword eligibility, and how the responsive search ads creative system selects the best-performing creative for users.It is essential to note that grouping keywords is critical to campaign optimisation. By eliminating the need to add the same keyword in multiple match types, advertisers can avoid segmenting and reducing the available data that Smart Bidding can use for optimisation, which can result in fewer conversions and higher costs.The guide is an invaluable resource for anyone seeking to enhance their Google Ads campaigns. Incorporating the insights and best practices outlined in the guide can boost the chances of success and drive more conversions.  This is why I always tell my listeners to work with a reputable learning and growing agency who is in the know. Afterall, you can not make moves or leverage opportunities if you are not in the know.3. Google Ads Is Changing Location Targeting Settings In March 2023 - Starting March 2023, “Search Interest” targeting will no longer be available in Google Ads. Campaigns that use “Search Interest” targeting will be migrated to “Presence or Interest” targeting. These changes will be consistent in Search, Display, Performance Max, and Shopping campaigns. The Presence option lets you show your ads to people who are likely to be located, or regularly located in the locations you've targeted.The Search Interest option lets you show your ads to anyone searching on Google for your targeted location. If a person doesn't specify a location in their search, then the system uses the location where a user is likely to be located for targeting. This option is only available for Search campaigns.So after this change is in effect, a person who lives in Northern VA but often travels to Maryland for shopping or work. While home in VA, the person searches for "plumber near me." Now Google is going to show some Maryland plumbers who are not licensed in VA.  Am I the only one who thinks that the real winner of this change is Google!!4. Google Ads Introduces AI-Powered Search Ads - During the Google's Search Ads Week, a new customer acquisition goal for Search campaigns has been launched globally. This goal utilizes Smart Bidding and first-party data to optimize campaigns and attract new customers during peak periods. According to Google, by combining the new customer acquisition goal with bidding strategies like Maximize conversion value with a target ROAS, advertisers can prioritize and target high-value customers. The new customer acquisition goal has two modes that help you to reach your campaign goals: Value New Customer: Bid higher for new customers than for existing customers New Customers Only: Bid for new customers only. 5. Microsoft Bing's Fabrice Canel : SEO Will Never Be "dead" - Fabrice Canel, the Principal Product Manager for Microsoft Bing, gave a keynote presentation at the Pubcon convention in Austin, Texas. His presentation offered valuable information on optimizing websites for the new Bing search experience as well as shared the benefits of using Bing Webmaster Tools to monitor traffic data and make necessary adjustments to improve visibility in search results.First, Canel suggested to stay with the same SEO playbooks for optimizing content for Bing's AI experience because it's still the early days for AI search. Throughout his keynote at Pubcon, Canel stressed the importance of SEO professionals in guiding Bing's search crawlers to high-quality content.Then Canel emphasized the importance of setting the lastmod tag to the date a page was last modified, not when the sitemap was generated. Remember lastmod was covered in previous episodes in details. ICYMI, the lastmod tag is an HTML attribute indicating when a particular webpage or URL received significant changes. This tag is used in sitemaps to help search engines like Bing understand when a page was last updated. Lastmod also helps searchers identify and access the most up-to-date content available. When a lastmod tag is present, Bing will display the updated date in search results. This signals to searchers that the webpage may have new or updated information they haven't seen yet. According to Canel, 18% of sitemaps have lastmod values not correctly set, typically set to the date and time the sitemap is generated.Thirdly, Canel recommended website to  adopting IndexNow to inform search engines of recent modifications to website content instantly. FYI: IndexNow was covered in episode# 90 (Jan 10-15, 2022). According to Canel, 20 million websites have already adopted IndexNow, and he expects more top websites, search engines, and content management systems to follow suit. Canel adds that manually crawling a webpage to see if its content has changed wastes resources and energy and creates CO2. He also suggests having sitemaps to provide search engines with all relevant URLs and corresponding modification dates.Most importantly, he wanted website owner focus on writing quality content and use semantic markup to convey information about the pages.Lastly, we learned Bing Webmaster Tools will soon include traffic data from Bing's AI chat.6. Google On ‘lastmod' Tag In XML Sitemap - I covered “lastmod” in episode#146. It is back again. Google's John Mueller said on Twitter if you are "providing something new for search engines that you'd like reflected in search," then update the date, if not, then don't. John added, "The issue is more that some CMS's / servers set the lastmod to the current date/time for all pages. This makes that data useless. Good CMS's setting it thoughtfully, even if not always perfect, is much more useful."The current Google documentation says, "Google uses the lastmod value if it's consistently and verifiably (for example by comparing to the last modification of the page) accurate." And according to a recent study at Bing (also covered in episode#146) revealed that among websites with at least one URL indexed by Bing: 58% of hosts have at least one XML sitemap (sitemap known by Bing).84% of these sitemaps have a lastmod attribute set 79% have lastmod values correct.  18% have lastmod values not correctly set.  3% has lastmod values for only some of the URLs. 42% of hosts don't have one XML sitemap (Bing does not know it) P.S: Don't be the business that is skipping the basics and easy to do stuff and looking to do advanced stuff. #DoTheBasics first.7. Google: Don't Combine Site Moves With Other Big Changes - Sometimes businesses make changes to their top-level domain as well as update their website. So Google Search Advocate John Mueller during a recent Search Of The Record Podcast with Gary Illyes, and Senior Technical Writer Lizzi Sassman asked “What happens if I do a domain change, and move from a “.ch”, which is a Swiss top level domain, to “.com”? Is that a problem? Like if I combine a domain change with other stuff?”In response, Illyes, shared that these changes should be done in smaller pieces over months. Making too many changes at once could result in lower rankings and lost traffic. For example, if a website is moving from “example.ch” and “example.fr” to “example.com,” Illyes recommended moving “example.fr” first and waiting before moving “example.ch.”Mueller and Sassman questioned Illyes on why he's so concerned about spreading out site moves. Illyes admitted that many site moves he's been involved with have resulted in lost traffic. Illyes also mentioned that misconfigurations, such as incorrect redirects, are common mistakes that can cause traffic loss. However, traffic shouldn't be lost during a domain change if everything is done correctly.If all you're doing is redirecting URLs from one site to another, there's a low risk for adverse effects. On the other hand, if you do lose rankings and traffic, there's no specific timeframe for a full recovery.8. Google's Gary Illyes: Google Does Not Care Who Authors or Links To The Content - Gary Illyes from Google gave a keynote and a Q&A session at PubCon and while the keynote was pretty vanilla stuff, the Q&A did reconfirm a lot of what has been said in the past around authorship, links and disavowing links. In short, Google does not give too much weight to who writes your content. So if you get a Walt Mossberg to write a piece of content on your site, just because it is Walt, doesn't make it rank well. If the content is written well, it will rank well, but by default, just because Walt wrote it, doesn't make it rank well. Gary also said that links are not as important as SEOs think they are.  And disavowing links is just a waste of time.P.S: All these topics have been covered in the past shows. 9. Google: PageRank Sculpting Is A Myth - Every website is assigned a unique value by the Google PageRank algorithm. This value, also called PageRank, has long been an important factor in link building and link exchange. PageRank sculpting is a technique in which an attempt is made to distribute the PageRank of a website to other subpages. Assuming that the home page receives the highest PageRank because it is the most important within the sites hierarchy, the PageRank will decrease as you go further down into the structure. Before 2009, it was common practice to control the PageRank through sculpting so that only certain pages would benefit. For example, function pages such as the imprint or contact page were linked internally with the attribute “nofollow.” Thus, the link power increased (as measured by PageRank) for the remaining internal links. Unfortunately, some SEO Experts still feel that they can control how Google passes your link equity throughout your site by using the nofollow link attribute. So Google's John Muller said on Twitter that it is an SEO myth to say you can use the nofollow attribute on links sculpt PageRank. Remember, back in 2019 he tweeted that Internal PageRank Sculpting Is A Waste Of Time. Another #SEOMythBusted. I'll file this under #AvoidBadSEOAdvice.10. Check Domain Reputation Before You Buy A Domain - Google's John Mueller was asked about a domain name purchased several months ago but still does not rank well in Google Search. John explained that if a domain has a "long and complicated history." "It's going to be hard to convince search engines that it's something very different & unrelated to what was done in the past decades," John added.In short, he is saying that not only was this domain abusing search engines for a long, long time, but also that the new content on this old domain is not different enough or unrelated enough from what the topic was previously where the search engine would consider it a brand new site and wipe the site clean.Basically the issue here is “domain legacy penalty” - It's a penalty that's associated with a domain from when it was registered by someone else in the past. Apparently the penalty remains after the domain is registered by someone else years later. Which makes sense or else bad actors will keep on transferring domain ownership to bypass the penalty. The way to prevent is to check the past history of a domain name is to visit Archive.org. Archive.org downloads and creates an archive of websites throughout the Internet.A similar issue happened a few years ago to ZDNet. One of their domains was hyphenated (CXO-Talk.com). So they purchased the non-hyphenated variant (CXOTalk.com) from a third party domain auction. ZDNet was unaware that the domain had been used by spammers.  Soon after ZDNet migrated all their content from CXO-Talk.com to CXOTalk.com, their website was banned from Google. ZDNet wrote an article about what happened to them and had the following advice: Before purchasing any domain at auction, be sure to check its history using backlink tools If the domain has a bad history, use Google Webmaster Tools to do a clean-up before putting the domain into service Google's system of problem remediation lacks transparency and responsiveness. They can and should do better. I still don't really know what caused the problem or how to fix it. 11. Should You Rewrite Your Content With ChatGPT? - Google's John Mueller went back and forth on Twitter with some SEO practitioners on the topic of using ChatGPT to (re)write existing content. Basically Ujesh was wondering if he can rewrite his own content with the help of tools like #ChatGPT without losing its helpfulness and relevancy. He was curious to see if it will  reduce the quality of the article due to AI involvement or does it boost the article considering the quality revamp ?To that question, John asked “Why do you need to rewrite your own content? Is it bad?” IMO, this is a fair question.To John's question Paulo replied, “let's say that English is not my main language. Then, I write something in my mother tongue, translate it in my own limited vocabulary, and ask AI to enhance the vocabulary. The content is not bad, but limited by my knowledge of a language, not the topic I'm trying to cover.”And John responded by saying “Why do you want to just publish something for the sake of publishing something, rather than publishing something you know to be useful & good? (This is not unique to LLM/AI NLG, it's the same with unknown-quality human-written content.) What do you want your site known for?”John is saying that, if your content is bad, why are you writing it in the first place? If you know your content is bad, then it is not helpful, will ChatGPT make it helpful for you? How do you know if the ChatGPT version is helpful and quality if your content you originally wrote is not quality? Maybe instead of using ChatGPT to improve the quality of your content, maybe you should focus on topics that you can write quality content about?

Facebook will now remove a post and give up to seven explanations before suspending or banning users. The new policy is a result of analysis and feedback from Meta's Independent Oversight Board. More severe violations still could mean immediate penalties like posting bans and/or account removal.https://about.fb.com/news/2023/02/meta-is-improving-facebooks-penalty-system/ First up Micha Fisher and Masatake Wasa, two mods of the No Dumb Questions SEO group on Facebook joined us to talk about a mass ban event. Last week Micha and Masa and all other mods at No Dumb Questions woke to find their Facebook and Instagram profiles disabled without cause or reason and with little to no help from Facebook. We start with their story.Later in the show, Kristine and Jim are joined by Audience Key founder and Webcology sponsor Tom Rusling as we talk about Pubcon, AI, and the Audience Key content strategy, creation, and deployment tool. (https://audiencekey.com/) Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/webcology/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This was a technical heavy show focusing on talking announcements from Pubcon, Google'sFeb2023 Product Reviews Update, how Bing uses AI content, changes to credentials at Search Console,Russian propagandists exploiting Twitter verification, and the cases in front of the US Supreme Courtthat might threaten Section 260.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/webcology/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the What's Next! podcast with Tiffani Bova. I'm excited to share this conversation with Mindy Weinstein who shares her personal philsophy and corporate experience with consumer psychology. Mindy Weinstein is the founder and CEO of Market MindShift, as well as a national speaker, trainer, and digital marketing strategist. She has worked with and trained companies of all sizes. Throughout her career, Mindy has trained such companies as Facebook, The Weather Channel, World Fuel Services, Hampton Products, Putman Media and more. Other digital marketing agencies come to Mindy to learn the latest trends, concepts and methodologies. Mindy has been named as one of the top women in SEO and has presented at such conferences as Digital Summit, Pubcon, SMX, the SEJ Summit and more. She is an Ask the SEO Expert columnist for SearchEngineJournal.com. Mindy has often appeared in the media, with television interviews that aired on Fox, NBC and ABC as well as various other multimedia platforms. Mindy is the author of “The Power of Scarcity: Leveraging Urgency to Influence Customer Decisions” (McGraw Hill). She is also the host of Persuasion in Business, a podcast that dives into a persuasion-related concepts and provides real-world application for businesses.   THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR… anyone in consumer finance, marketing, retails, sales, or really any position that   TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE… consumer psychology is about understanding and listening the thoughts and perspectives of your customers, so you have to keep an eye on the digital conversations happening on social media and online platforms, but you can't forget about the direct contact modes from the sales team and customer service representatives.     WHAT  I  LOVE  MOST… Scarcity mindset is hardwired into the human mind, but we can harness our basic instincts and use this power for good to build community and make better decisions for ourselves!     Running time: 30:25 Subscribe on iTunes     Find Tiffani on social: Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Instagram   Find Mindy online: Website Facebook Twitter LinkedIn   Mindy's Book: The Power of Scarcity

Dr. Marie Haynes shares her thoughts and insights on the EDGE by looking at the plethora of Google algorithm updates this year. 2022 has seen its fair share of volatility in the SERPs. In addition, she explores ways to identify and track the impacts of algorithm updates on a website, while pointing out many of the culprits responsible for misleading false positives, which may be wrongfully associated with an update. With over 10 years of SEO experience, she's a regular speaker at MozCon, Pubcon, SMX, and Brighton SEO, and a frequent contributor to many industry publications. She's the owner and President of Marie Haynes Consulting. Additionally, Dr. Marie Haynes hosts one of the top SEO podcasts, Search News You Can Use. Time to dive into Google algorithm updates… on the EDGE! Key Segments: [00:02:15] Introducing Dr. Marie Haynes  [00:04:11] Highest Levels of Continued Rank Volatility [00:05:00] Should We Be Focused On Traffic? [00:06:41] Product Review and Core Updates [00:09:11] The Compounding Impacts of Multiple Updates and Diagnoses [00:12:39] EDGE of the Web Sponsor: Site Strategics [00:13:42] Gross Traffic vs. Individual Page Traffic [00:14:32] Transactional vs. Informative Content [00:16:31] Old School SEO [00:18:12] Intent and Relevancy [00:21:41] The Helpful Content Update, Knowledge Graph and Snippets [00:23:32] Not All Traffic Changes Are From Algorithm Updates [00:27:35] MobileMoxie Tracks Historical SERP Snippets [00:28:44] EDGE of the Web Title Sponsor: edgeofthewebradio.com/wix [00:29:37] The Apocalypse! [00:33:16] Questions, Questions and More Questions [00:35:18] External Evidence [00:37:20] AI Content Is Likely Algorithmically Identifiable Follow our Guest: https://twitter.com/Marie_Haynes https://www.mariehaynes.com/seo-newsletter/ https://ca.linkedin.com/in/marie-haynes https://www.mariehaynes.com/ Dr. Marie Haynes' SEO Podcast https://www.mariehaynes.com/seo-newsletter/seo-podcast/ Thanks to our Sponsors! Site Strategics https://www.sitestrategics.com Wix https://edgeofthewebradio.com/wix

Big-picture and detail-oriented, Debbie is a marketing communications specialist who has worked in digital marketing, content development, and social media for over 15 years. A motivated digital marketer, she brings a unique perspective from her brand, agency, and consulting experience. Debbie debuted Social Hospitality as a side project in 2011 before transitioning to the brand full-time in 2017. As founder and president of Social Hospitality, Debbie leads the operational side of the business while working directly with clients to build and execute marketing strategies. Social Hospitality is a boutique digital marketing agency that helps brands develop their online identities, create engaging content, and build their social media presence. The Social Hospitality blog is a leading industry resource, too. Debbie has an English degree from UC Irvine and is HubSpot certified in social media and content marketing. She has been invited to speak at events like Social Tools Summit, PubCon, IABC, as well as various universities and other local organizations. She has been quoted in publications including USA Today, Inc., Forbes, Huffington Post, Social Media Today, Search Engine Journal, Todays Hotelier, Business2Community, SEMrush, and more. Debbie is a lover of good eats and is always adventuring, traveling, learning, and spoiling her two dogs. On this episode of Destination on the Left, I talk with Debbie about how her boutique destination marketing business Social Hospitality helps clients stand out from the crowd online. She also shares strategies for finding where your customers are online and the importance of understanding and being ready to respond to the changing algorithms of different social media platforms. What You Will Learn in this Episode: How Debbie moved from being an English Major in college to running her own marketing agency Why Debbie loves the collaborative nature of working in destination marketing Current social media trends and some of the new strategies Debbie is recommending to her clients Creativity in the face of adversity and how Debbie has found unusual solutions to recent challenges Debbie shares the many benefits of coopetition and gives examples of coopetition she has experienced and the positive outcomes that came from that Debbie shares her insights and advice for listeners planning a collaboration and explains what she does to set her up for success Where you can connect with Debbie online Standing Out Online In terms of differentiating yourself as a business from the crowd knowing your audience is key. On the show, Debbie describes why you need to look at where your audience hangs out online, and if you're not on a specific channel, but your competition is — you might need to make some changes. Lean into the initial heavy lifting and research and figure out where your audience spends their time and where your competitors spend their time and make sure you're there too. Then you can create those conversations and the stories around what makes you distinct from those competitors. Finding Your Ideal Customer As a hospitality business, or any type of organization in the travel, tourism, or hospitality space, we need to get really focused in on who we're targeting. Because if we don't know who our ideal customer is, we're not going to be effective. Marketers need to tailor strategies to their ideal audience, and one of the ways that you can maximize your chances of developing a great strategy is to do your homework. Debbie also describes how she uses carefully honed strategies to take advantage of current trends in social media, such as Instagram's promotion of the Reels feature. Strategies for Effective Collaboration In the destination marketing space, there are plenty of opportunities for collaboration which are win-win situations. Debbie shares some of the partnerships she is currently involved in and how she has built a network that thrives on supporting one another. She discusses the idea that a rising tide lifts all boats and gives her advice on best practices for planning an effective and mutually beneficial collaboration. Resources: Website: https://socialhospitality.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debbiemiller53/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/thebigdebowski We value your thoughts and feedback and would love to hear from you. Leave us a review on your favorite streaming platform to let us know what you want to hear more of. Here is a quick tutorial on how to leave us a rating and review on iTunes!: https://breaktheicemedia.com/rating-review/

Stephan Spencer has been in the online space for decades; since the 90s and has seen a lot of techniques and companies come and go. Today he joins me to talk about what is tried and true, writing quality content that's worth sharing, building your authority, adding value and revealing light and everything we do. If you are looking for how you can expand your reach, then Stephan is the expert you have been seeking. Join us for this episode and hear Stephan share his personal story of transformation along with his tips for what it takes to make it online.   Meet Stephan Spencer STEPHAN SPENCER is an internationally recognized SEO expert, internet entrepreneur, consultant, and professional speaker. He has keynoted and spoken at hundreds of conferences including American Marketing Association (AMA), Shop.org, Internet Retailer, IRCE, and PubCon. He contributes to a number of marketing journals and blogs, including Search Engine Land, CNET, and more. He currently hosts the Marketing Speak and Get Yourself Optimized podcasts, both of which have appeared in the iTunes New and Noteworthy.   Connect with Stephan: Website: https://www.stephanspencer.com/about/ (https://www.instagram.com/circlelight/) YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/stephanspencer (https://www.youtube.com/stephanspencer) Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/stephanspencerseo (https://www.facebook.com/stephanspencerseo)    iflip Invest App: https://iflipinvest.com/ Meet Loral Langemeier: Loral Langemeier is a money expert, sought-after speaker, entrepreneurial thought leader, and best-selling author of five books. Her goal: to change the conversations people have about money worldwide and empower people to become millionaires. The CEO and Founder of Live Out Loud, Inc. – a multinational organization — Loral relentlessly and candidly shares her best advice without hesitation or apology. What sets her apart from other wealth experts is her innate ability to recognize and acknowledge the skills & talents of people, inspiring them to generate wealth. She has created, nurtured, and perfected a 3-5 year strategy to make millions for the “Average Jill and Joe.” To date, she and her team have served thousands of individuals worldwide and created hundreds of millionaires through wealth-building education keynotes, workshops, products, events, programs, and coaching services. Loral is truly dedicated to helping men and women, from all walks of life, to become millionaires AND be able to enjoy time with their families. She is living proof that anyone can have the life of their dreams through hard work, persistence, and getting things done in the face of opposition. As a single mother of two children, she is redefining the possibility for women to have it all and raise their children in an entrepreneurial and financially literate environment.   Links and Resources: Ask Loral App:https://apple.co/3eIgGcX ( https://apple.co/3eIgGcX) Loral on Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/askloral/ ( https://www.facebook.com/askloral/) Loral on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/user/lorallive/videos ( https://www.youtube.com/user/lorallive/videos) Loral on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorallangemeier/ ( https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorallangemeier/) Money Rules:https://integratedwealthsystems.com/money-rules/ ( https://integratedwealthsystems.com/money-rules/) Millionaire Maker Store:https://millionairemakerstore.com/ ( https://millionairemakerstore.com/) Real Money Talks Podcast:https://integratedwealthsystems.com/podcast/ ( https://integratedwealthsystems.com/podcast/) Integrated Wealth Systems:https://integratedwealthsystems.com/ ( https://integratedwealthsystems.com/) Affiliate Sign-Up:https://integratedwealthsystems.com/affiliates ( https://integratedwealthsystems.com/affiliates)   Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and

In this episode, we chat with Amanda Milligan about creating newsworthy content. Several of our previous guests have stressed the importance of following the news. Today, we'll discuss how we can use it to create relevant content for your audience that earns future links. Not only will you get some tips from our guest, but you'll also hear from Britt and Jackie on resources that have given them ideas for content. You'll walk away with solid insights on helping your brand build authority and generate press. In this episode you'll learn… How to contextualize the news to fit your brand, no matter what your industry is! Tools and additional resources to help you brainstorm content ideas How you can create evergreen content out of the news Our guest is... Amanda Milligan is the Head of Marketing at Stacker Studio, a data journalism newswire that partners with brands to create and distribute content to their high-authority publisher network, building brand awareness and earning links for their clients. With a degree in journalism and a decade in content marketing, she's spent her career helping brands harness the intersection of content and SEO. Her expertise has been published in Entrepreneur, Forbes, TechCrunch, Search Engine Land, Moz, The Next Web, and more, and she's spoken at industry-leading events, including SMX, MozCon, BrightonSEO, and Pubcon.

Jim and Dave speak with Navah Hopkins, a search industry veteran, has officially launched her consulting business, Navah Hopkins Consulting, LLC. Bill Hartzer.com reports:Navah is a a highly sought-after paid media and digital marketing strategist with over a decade of empowering brands and the agencies. In her new consulting firm, she plans on providing Digital marketing strategy, Account audits, SAAS product strategy, and General business strategy.In the past, Navah has worked for companies like Adzooma, Justuno, Hennessey Digital, and WordStream. I've known her for years as one of the world's best Paid Media specialists, and I've seen her speak about paid search and paid media at conferences such as Pubcon and State of Search.Navah has a passion for innovation, fueled by a hybrid of strategic partnerships, data analysis, and consumer engagement. She loves connecting people who can mutually benefit each other, leveraging innovation to solve socioeconomic issues, and maintaining bottom line thinking with an ethics driven perspective.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/webcology/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On Ep. 68 of iPullRank's Rankable Podcast, Garrett Sussman hosts Amanda Milligan, Head of Marketing at Stacker, to discuss the topic of how to create newsworthy content.Amanda Milligan is the Head of Marketing at Stacker, a data journalism newswire that partners with brands to create and distribute content to their high-authority publisher network, building brand awareness and earning links for their clients. With a degree in journalism and a decade in content marketing, she's spent her career helping brands harness the intersection of content and SEO. Her expertise has been published in Entrepreneur, Forbes, TechCrunch, Search Engine Land, Moz, The Next Web, and more, and she's spoken at industry-leading events, including SMX, MozCon, BrightonSEO, and Pubcon. Brand building isn't synonymous with SEO, but it's a critical component of authority and E-A-T signals. Amanda joined us this week to talk about the value of content and brand building outside of SEO, how you can create newsworthy content, and how content can solidify your name in your industry. In this episode, we also covered:What role does data backed journalism play in newsworthy content?What research strategies and resources can a marketer use to develop their content?How to build brand authority through contentIs content syndication a viable strategy in 2022?How do you handle objections around duplicating your content on other networks?

The awesome Amanda Milligan joins me on the show to discuss how to build authority in digital marketing. Amanda Milligan is the Head of Marketing at Stacker, a data journalism platform and newswire that also partners with brands to create and distribute content to build brand awareness and links. With a degree in journalism and a decade in content marketing, she's spent her career helping brands harness the intersection of content and SEO. Her expertise has been published in Entrepreneur, Forbes, TechCrunch, Search Engine Land, Moz, The Next Web, and more, and she's spoken at industry-leading events, including SMX, MozCon, BrightonSEO, and Pubcon. In this episode, we discuss: How to define authority What makes a brand authoritative The value there is in brands seeking to build/grow their authority The common mistakes people make when going through this authority building process How brands with more authority stand out from those who don't What response she would give to a C-suite/senior manager who isn't interested in building authority ...and much more! ** FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT AVAILABLE AT https://www.iamazeemdigital.com/blog/amanda-milligan-podcast-interview/* As always, if you enjoyed this, and previous episodes, please like, rate, share, and subscribe to the podcast - it all helps! Useful Links: Podcast Anchor Page: https://anchor.fm/azeemdigitalasks My Twitter page: https://twitter.com/AzeemDigital My website: https://www.iamazeemdigital.com/ Sign up to "The Marginalised Marketer" newsletter: https://www.iamazeemdigital.com/the-marginalised-marketer-newsletter/ Amanda's Twitter: https://twitter.com/millanda

Pubcon Florida took a bit of patience and persistence to be one of the first in-person marketing conferences in 2021. While the pandemic kept us home, Pubcon showed us how digital marketing, brands, and audiences have changed. Digital marketing does not occur in a vacuum. It is a web of constantly evolving components, assets, and influences. For marketers, learning is at the forefront of every role and class is always in session. So it’s a good thing we have Pubcon, a digital marketing conference where consultants and businesses build relationships and learn the latest SEO and PR strategies. In this episode of the Social PR Secrets podcast, Kassie Meiler and Lisa Buyer exchange Pubcon 2021 takeaways. From neuroscience in ad copy to conquering Facebook updates, this year’s keynote speakers expertly tackled all things relating to SEO, content, and Google, and the G.O.A.T. has 13 pages worth of notes ready to be implemented! Meet the G.O.A.T, Kassie Meiler Kassie Meiler’s passion for social media and digital marketing began in high school when she held the webmaster position for her drama club. After completing undergrad at Florida State University, she furthered her education at the University of Florida’s College of Journalism and Communications, where she earned a Master of Arts in Mass Communication. Prior to starting the program, she had already founded Goat Social Media, LLC. In a way, the classes were similar to a practicum course. Kassie readily applied in-class skills to her very own business to increase leads and create engaging content for clients. Kassie’s Pubcon Takeaways Kassie got to soak up a little bit of everything social-related during the three-day conference. And she even reconnected with Lisa who was actually one of her graduate professors at UF. One takeaway made a deep-rooted impression on Kassie. So much so that she implemented the tip to her website almost immediately. Social PR Secret Add media logos on your homepage to indicate publications that you’ve been featured in. Kassie said that many marketers and brand owners don’t realize the amount of content they have in their toolbox. Lisa agreed, adding that when she posted her first 50 SPS episodes it was much easier than expected, having pulled valuable content from previous lectures and media she already had in her back pocket. Roger Dooley on Neuroscience in Ad Copy: Roger explained the liking and unity principle. An example of the Liking Principle would be Tito’s Vodka for Dog People, where they include dogs in ads to appeal specifically to dog owners. The Unity Principle is "liking on steroids." It moves beyond surface-level similarities, promoting the human nature of wanting to belong. Kassie related this to being a Florida State University Seminole and acquiring an attachment to specific on-campus bars or restaurants. Knowing this and

Barry Schwartz talks with Jason Barnrad about the history of google updates big and small. Barry Schwartz is a technologist, search geek, CEO of RustyBrick, founder of Search Engine Roundtable and also a news editor at Search Engine Land. He speaks at many search marketing conferences and technology events like Search Marketing Expo, Search Engine Strategies, Pubcon, etc. And provides an advisory role to expert SEOs, internet companies and startups. He also loves to spend the first hours of his morning writing super advanced SEM topics. Barry takes us on a stroll down the history of Google updates from 2002 to the most recent updates in June and July 2021. Year by year, Barry and Jason go through the significant changes in Google Search, what they changed and how they affected the work and lives of SEOs. Throughout, on message comes through - this is a ongoing process that aims to make Google Search results more relevant, helpful and spam-free for Google's users. Barry and Jason provide wonderful explanations of each of these updates plus great insights on how SEOs and website owners were able to fix their drops in rankings. Google Toolbar — December 1, 2000 Dancing The Google Dance — September 1, 2002 Universal Search  —  May 1, 2007 Caffeine  —  June 1, 2010 Panda/Farmer  —  February 23, 2011 The +1 Button  —  March 30, 2011 Penguin  —  April 24, 2012 Exact-Match Domain (EMD) Update  —  September 27, 2012 "Phantom"  —  May 9, 2013 "Fred" (Unconfirmed)  —  March 8, 2017 Hummingbird  —  August 20, 2013 Page Experience Update  —  June 25, 2021 What you'll learn from Barry Schwartz This is a list that explains each update we discussed (and some more that we didn't) so that you have some context, especially for the timestamps. https://moz.com/google-algorithm-change 00:00 Barry Schwartz and Jason Barnard00:46 Barry Schwartz's Brand SERP03:19 The Google Toolbar and and the days of the Google Dance06:00 We no longer wait for Panda updates because Google's goal is make it real-time07:13 When do knowledge panels and knowledge graphs change?10:23 2007 Google introduced Universal Search - not your typical algorithm update12:12 Faster crawling and indexation - the Caffeine update14:31 The failure of Google Plus - will Google try again?16:02 What's the difference between Panda and Penguin updates?20:02 The Exact Match Domain update22:39 RustyBrick, where did the name come from?23:27 The mystery behind the Phantom and Fred updates24:48 Clearing up some misconceptions about the Hummingbird update29:13 Core Web Vitals have little-to-no influence on rankings32:10 Crazy daily numbers of never-before-seen pages for GoogleBot34:16 What Google wants you to do when you've been hit by core updates41:06 How does Barry find the time to do everything he does? This episode was recorded live on video July 27th 2021 Recorded live at Kalicube Tuesdays (Digital Marketing Livestream Event Series). Watch the video now >>

Barry Schwartz talks with Jason Barnrad about the history of google updates big and small. Barry Schwartz is a technologist, search geek, CEO of RustyBrick, founder of Search Engine Roundtable and also a news editor at Search Engine Land. He speaks at many search marketing conferences and technology events like Search Marketing Expo, Search Engine Strategies, Pubcon, etc. And provides an advisory role to expert SEOs, internet companies and startups. He also loves to spend the first hours of his morning writing super advanced SEM topics. Barry takes us on a stroll down the history of Google updates from 2002 to the most recent updates in June and July 2021. Year by year, Barry and Jason go through the significant changes in Google Search, what they changed and how they affected the work and lives of SEOs. Throughout, on message comes through - this is a ongoing process that aims to make Google Search results more relevant, helpful and spam-free for Google's users. Barry and Jason provide wonderful explanations of each of these updates plus great insights on how SEOs and website owners were able to fix their drops in rankings. Google Toolbar — December 1, 2000 Dancing The Google Dance — September 1, 2002 Universal Search  —  May 1, 2007 Caffeine  —  June 1, 2010 Panda/Farmer  —  February 23, 2011 The +1 Button  —  March 30, 2011 Penguin  —  April 24, 2012 Exact-Match Domain (EMD) Update  —  September 27, 2012 "Phantom"  —  May 9, 2013 "Fred" (Unconfirmed)  —  March 8, 2017 Hummingbird  —  August 20, 2013 Page Experience Update  —  June 25, 2021 What you'll learn from Barry Schwartz This is a list that explains each update we discussed (and some more that we didn't) so that you have some context, especially for the timestamps. https://moz.com/google-algorithm-change 00:00 Barry Schwartz and Jason Barnard00:46 Barry Schwartz's Brand SERP03:19 The Google Toolbar and and the days of the Google Dance06:00 We no longer wait for Panda updates because Google's goal is make it real-time07:13 When do knowledge panels and knowledge graphs change?10:23 2007 Google introduced Universal Search - not your typical algorithm update12:12 Faster crawling and indexation - the Caffeine update14:31 The failure of Google Plus - will Google try again?16:02 What's the difference between Panda and Penguin updates?20:02 The Exact Match Domain update22:39 RustyBrick, where did the name come from?23:27 The mystery behind the Phantom and Fred updates24:48 Clearing up some misconceptions about the Hummingbird update29:13 Core Web Vitals have little-to-no influence on rankings32:10 Crazy daily numbers of never-before-seen pages for GoogleBot34:16 What Google wants you to do when you've been hit by core updates41:06 How does Barry find the time to do everything he does? This episode was recorded live on video July 27th 2021 Recorded live at Kalicube Tuesdays (Digital Marketing Livestream Event Series). Watch the video now >>

Jason Barnard (the Brand SERP Guy) is a digital marketer who specializes in brand SERP optimization and knowledge panel management. SERP means search engine results page. Brand SERP refers to how your business or organization appears when someone Google's your brand name.Company:Jason Barnard is the founder and CEO at Kalicube – a groundbreaking digital marketing agency that, through the Kalicube Pro SaaS platform, helps clients optimize their Brand SERP and manage their knowledge panel.Author:Jason is a regular contributor to leading digital marketing publications such as Search Engine Journal and Search Engine Land and regular guest on others such as Wordlift, SE Ranking, SEMrush, Search Engine Watch, Searchmetrics, and Trustpilot.Speaker:Jason regularly gives conferences at major marketing conferences worldwide including BrightonSEO, PubCon, SMX series, and YoastCon.Podcast Host:Spanning 3 seasons, "With Jason Barnard" has become a staple podcast for digital marketers. The conversations are always intelligent, always interesting, and always fun! Guests include Rand Fishkin, Barry Schwartz, Eric Enge, Joost de Valk, Aleyda Solis, Bill Slawski. Over 180 episodes are available!If you are looking for help with your SEO strategy or need your brand refreshed, contact us at:https://nerdbrandagency.com/contact-us/=====About The NerdBrand PodcastThe NerdBrand Podcast is the intersection of nerd culture, branding, and  marketing. Nerd culture is no longer a reserved sub-culture; it's  mainstream pop culture.  Listen as we discuss our views on branding and advertising, always with a  touch of nerd — technology, movies, comics and novels, video games, and  plenty more.Find more at https://nerdbrandagency.com/podcast  =====  About NerdBrandNerdBrand is a data-driven branding, web design, and advertising agency based in Louisville, KY. From establishing your brand identity to guiding your day-to-day marketing strategies, we bring the "why" of your business to life.Learn more at https://nerdbrandagency.comConnect with NerdBrand LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/nerdbrandagency Facebook: https://facebook.com/nerdbrandagency Instagram: https://instagram.com/nerdbrandagency Twitter: https://twitter.com/nerdbrandagency--- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/nerdbrand/messageSupport this podcast: https://anchor.fm/nerdbrand/support

Today, Seth is joined by Brett Tabke, the founder and CEO of PubCon. Brett announces the exciting news that PubCon will be back in person on August 3rd - 5th for its conference in Florida! The two discuss the history of the conference and how it has grown to become a “must-attend” event for SEO marketers and practitioners, whether they're advanced or just starting out in the industry. Brett also gives his insight on how PubCon curates and fine tunes their selections for speakers to make sure that attendees get the absolute most out of the experience! Seth and Brett continue the discussion by looking at future changes we may soon see in the digital marketing world and government's potential influence on it.To view all SEO Insider episodes, visit: https://blusharkdigital.com/seo-insider/PubCon: https://www.pubcon.com/For more helpful tips on legal SEO, check out BluShark's other channels:WEBSITE: https://blusharkdigital.com/FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/blusharkdigitalTWITTER: https://twitter.com/blusharkdigitalLINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/company/blushark-digital/INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/blusharkdigitalBluShark Digital LLC was founded to lift the confusion around search engine optimization (SEO) by providing businesses with innovative, transparent, and successful solutions to help them stand out with their online presence. Click below to learn what clients have to say about their partnerships with BluShark.

Casie Gillette talks with Jason Barnard about content marketing Casie Gillette - Director of Online Marketing at Komarketing – is a digital marketing strategy expert with nearly 20 years of experience, and speaker at top marketing conferences such as SMX, Pubcon and MozCon.  She joined Jason Barnard to discuss the role of technology in Content Marketing and Customer Experience, and how we can use it to better understand our audience.  Casie shares invaluable insights on how to take advantage of the vast amounts of information that Google divulges about our audiences… but also how to stand out and make a difference in our customers' experience by adding a human aspect. You will also learn a very effective content creation strategy that most of the companies fail to implement, and much more! Finally, a bonus: You'll see the coolest dog just chillin' in the background with Casie (the podcast ends when s/he starts eating the table leg ;) What you'll learn from Casie Gillette 00:00 Casie Gillette with Jason Barnard01:18 Casie's Brand SERP03:57 Does technology make Content Marketing and Customer Experience easier?09:42 Identifying the sites ranking the most in your industry for content strategy11:16 Relying on technology vs examining your Brand SERP for audience insights15:32 The importance of the human aspect when understanding your audience21:15 Taking the offline online in your content strategy24:08 What's a good content creation process for a company?30:01 Creating video content35:56 Technology as a vehicle to understanding our audience Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe here >> This episode was recorded live on video March 30th 2021 Recorded live at Kalicube Tuesdays (Digital Marketing Livestream Event Series). Watch the video now >>

Casie Gillette talks with Jason Barnard about content marketing Casie Gillette - Director of Online Marketing at Komarketing – is a digital marketing strategy expert with nearly 20 years of experience, and speaker at top marketing conferences such as SMX, Pubcon and MozCon.  She joined Jason Barnard to discuss the role of technology in Content Marketing and Customer Experience, and how we can use it to better understand our audience.  Casie shares invaluable insights on how to take advantage of the vast amounts of information that Google divulges about our audiences… but also how to stand out and make a difference in our customers' experience by adding a human aspect. You will also learn a very effective content creation strategy that most of the companies fail to implement, and much more! Finally, a bonus: You'll see the coolest dog just chillin' in the background with Casie (the podcast ends when s/he starts eating the table leg ;) What you'll learn from Casie Gillette 00:00 Casie Gillette with Jason Barnard01:18 Casie's Brand SERP03:57 Does technology make Content Marketing and Customer Experience easier?09:42 Identifying the sites ranking the most in your industry for content strategy11:16 Relying on technology vs examining your Brand SERP for audience insights15:32 The importance of the human aspect when understanding your audience21:15 Taking the offline online in your content strategy24:08 What's a good content creation process for a company?30:01 Creating video content35:56 Technology as a vehicle to understanding our audience Subscribe to the podcast Subscribe here >> This episode was recorded live on video March 30th 2021 Recorded live at Kalicube Tuesdays (Digital Marketing Livestream Event Series). Watch the video now >>

If you are a local business and public relations is not part of your digital marketing strategy, think again. In this episode, Lisa Buyer walks you through her recent presentation when she spoke at the Pubcon 2021 local search marketing conference. Whether you are a hair salon, lawyer, plumber, restaurant, or any other local service that live-n-thrives on the map, this multi-day conference was a virtual hot for local brands looking for the latest secrets to digital marketing success. Pubcon’s conference covered topics ranging from Google My Business to local link building, content marketing, local search advertising, and local public relation. Lisa Buyer walks you through highlights of her session including Local Press/Publicity by definition and point of view Earned media More credibility than advertising 3rd party endorsement Social proof Brand awareness Editorial coverage Steps to DIY Public Relations Identify your audience List 3-5 media outlets they read Brainstorm angles Find the right editor/producer Follow them on social Create a short + personalized pitch Offer your expertise/POV Rinse and Repeat 2x a month The Anatomy of a PR Media Kit Bios Headshots Fact Sheet Video Topics of expertise Website/newsroom Media contact Strong Visuals

In my 9th episode I speak to Brent Dykes Sr. Director, Insights & Data Storytelling at Blast Analytics, and author of the book Effective Data Storytelling. We talk about: 1) The definition of Data Storytelling 2) The three Star Trek characters 3) The difference between data literacy and data storytelling 4) The data storytelling arc 5) Education and how data storytelling needs to be introduced into schools About Brent: Brent Dykes is the Senior Director of Insights and Data Storytelling at Blast Analytics. He is also the author of Effective Data Storytelling: How to Drive Change with Data, Narrative, and Visuals. Brent has more than 15 years of enterprise analytics experience at Omniture, Adobe, and Domo. His passion for data strategy and data storytelling comes from consulting with many industry leaders including Nike, Microsoft, Sony, and Comcast. He is a regular Forbes contributor and has written more than 35 articles on different data-related topics. In 2016, Brent received the Most Influential Industry Contributor Award from the Digital Analytics Association (DAA). He is a popular speaker at conferences such as Strata, Web Summit, Shop.org, Adtech, Pubcon, RISE, Crunch, and Adobe Summit. Brent holds an MBA from Brigham Young University and a BBA in marketing from Simon Fraser University. About Samir: Samir is a data strategy and analytics leader, CEO and Founder of datazuum. He has a history of helping data executives and leaders craft and execute their data strategies. His passion for data strategy led him to launch the Data Accelerator Workshop, and host the Data Strategy Show. After a career in both private and public sectors Samir launched the datazuum brand in 2012, with a view to working with executives to deliver data strategy at a time when data was not seen as a business asset. Today datazuum delivers projects across both private and public sectors including: Charities, Financial Services (Banking & Insurance), Government, Housing & Construction, Law Enforcement, Logistics, Media & Publishing, Outsourcing, Postal, Retail, Telecoms, Transport and Utilities. Samir has 20 years of international experience across Europe, North America, and Africa. Is a regular speaker at international conferences, coach / mentor, a charity fundraiser, and youth champion for Working Knowledge - supporting young people to achieve their personal and career goals in life. Samir lives in London with his wife and daughter. Contact details for Samir LinkedIn: Samir Sharma Email: samir@datazuum.com website: www.datazuum.com

Since his days on the frontlines of crisis management on 9/11 for American Airlines to navigate the digital communications during Covid-19, Tony Wright has expertly positioned himself to be one of the most respected experts in reputation management in this digital era. Maintaining a brand’s online reputation is one the most valuable public relations assets; just ask Pubcon speaker and reputation management expert Tony Wright. Reputation Management Secrets During COVID-19 In this episode of Social PR Secrets, Lisa Buyer and Tony Wright explore reputation management strategies during a pandemic and discuss how perception is critical for your company to succeed online. COVID-19 has single-handedly reshaped the world as we know it and has impacted all forms of businesses, large and small. Maintaining a positive reputation for your brand during a global health crisis is critical for short- and long-term success. It is essential to demonstrate to potential customers the strength and stability of your company. Tony recommends adding a note on your Google My Business listing regarding how your business handles the current pandemic. Also, protocol communication is of utmost importance to ensure staff and customers remain informed and safe. Tony discusses how businesses should have a crisis communication strategy and reiterate sanitization processes, increased cleansing and disinfecting efforts. Brands should over-communicate other practical measures to protect staff and customers, such as face masks and providing hand sanitizing dispensers at your place of business. Safety is paramount, and a company’s reputation is more important than ever before. All in all, it is essential to monitor the situation daily, communicate with staff, and take action when necessary. Tune in to learn about additional COVID-19 reputation management strategies that will keep your business top of mind for your loyal customers. Reputation Management Secrets by Tony Wright Reputation management is an essential component of any business venture. By definition, reputation management is the effort to influence or control how people perceive a brand or company. Tony discusses how bad reviews online impact small and medium-sized businesses more than larger enterprises. “The littlest slip up on social media can turn into a PR or reputation management nightmare.” – Tony Wright In this episode, Lisa and Tony dive into the different reputation management levels based on the company’s size. Discover how to combat a bad reputation to create a better one than ever before. Protecting Your Company on Search Engine Results Tune in for strategies and tactics that B2B companies can use to protect their website and brand in search results. Tony states the first approach is to monitor what’s going on accurately with your

If you’re going to run social media for a brand, what’s the most critical thing for you to know? According to Melissa Fach, it’s absolutely essential to find out the brand’s core values first! In this blast from the past episode of the Social PR Secrets Podcast, Lisa Buyer sits down with social media expert Melissa Fach to get her advice on how to navigate public interaction as the face of a company via social platforms. If you’re looking to improve a brand’s image, or simply avoid tanking it, Melissa is the person you turn to. Melissa is a social savat. She handled the community for Moz, Pubcon and AuthorityLabs for years. She is now the US blog editor of SEMrush and the founder of SEO Aware, a consulting agency. In this episode, Melissa and Lisa discuss the importance of promptness when interacting with your customers via social media, why customer service online is even more delicate than face-to-face interactions, why a brand’s values are so imperative to their social media success and tips to avoid making viral mishaps. Melissa reveals her tips for dealing with angry customers. How should you deal with trolls? How can you help the people lobbing criticism via furious tweets? Listen to this episode to learn Melissa’s guide to ensuring every customer walks away from an interaction feeling positive about your brand! “The big thing is if you answer the wrong way or offend the wrong person you can actually take down a company ” - Melissa Fach Some topics discussed in this episode include: Why answering customers immediately is essential Melissa’s position at Moz The importance of a brand’s core values TAGFEE Why there’s no longer room for excuses in customer service How Melissa’s education in psychology helps her work How to avoid Twitter catastrophes Melissa’s tips for dealing with angry customers Advice for those entering the social media field Contact Melissa Fach: http://melissafach.com Melissa’s Twitter Melissa’s Instagram Melissa’s LinkedIn Melissa’s Facebook Melissa’s personality Pinterest More from Melissa: Melissa’s company - SEO Aware Melissa’s consulting services Corporate training Melissa’s blog References and links mentioned: Moz Twitter Wordpress Google Hangouts Subscribe to & Review Social PR Secrets Podcast Thanks for tuning into this week’s episode of the Social PR Secrets podcast by Lisa Buyer. If the information in this show’s interview inspired you in your business or life journey, feel free to head over to iTunes, subsc

This week we are talking about add backs, what is a legitimate add back, and how they affect your business valuation. The value of a business is dependent on earnings but it is also dependent on the company's discretionary earnings such as the add backs of owner salary and benefits. Then there are those one-offs – those non-recurring expenses which are also known as add backs. Those are the add backs what we are dissecting on today's episode. A seller's due diligence when it comes to discretionary earnings can help buyers see their potential ROI without any grey area. Episode Highlights: Why we work off the seller's discretionary earnings and what that is. How discretionary earnings are a case by case calculation for each business. The three levels of add backs. Why it's important to take a scalpel to those third level add backs. Questionable add backs – what can fly what cannot. How math and logic are the key tools to determine legitimate add backs. Transcription: Mark: Alright, welcome back Joe. I know you just came back from Blue Ribbon Mastermind; Ezra's event. It was up in Seattle, is that right? Joe: Yeah, a beautiful city and a great event. On a personal level, I had a great time. I took my 17-year-old with me and just explored the city in off-hours. Business-wise I'm telling you Ezra Firestone is sort of the Tony Robbins of the e-commerce world in my view. He gets up there, he's real, he says it like it is, he shares his own information to the Blue Ribbon Mastermind members and it's such actionable, transferable information. And the level of entrepreneurs and intelligence at the Blue Ribbon Mastermind I think is nearly unmatched; it goes very politically correct I think, right, nearly unmatched? Mark: Yes. I think every conference that we come back from is our latest favorite conference. But Blue Ribbon and Ezra's events have been fantastic since we started going to them. And you're right he's just a fantastic guy. He gives a ton of information and has a ton of insight to share. So one of these days I'm going to get to go to the event instead of you because I want to get in on some of these. Awesome, glad to have you back, we do have a couple of conferences coming up. We will be sending these out in our email; our newsletters that go out every Thursday or Friday depending on when we get our stuff together so pay attention to those. Alright, this week Joe you and I are going to do the podcast. Joe: That's right we have two very special guests. Mark: Two very special guests; that's right. We're not bringing anybody else in on this one because we want to talk about add backs; what is a valid add back or what is a legitimate add back? And I know for a buying perspective this can be a little jarring the first time. If you're just coming into the acquisitions industry; if you're looking for your first acquisition and you look at a profit and loss statement that we provide you might be wondering well why are these guys throwing all these expenses back at me, these were on the tax returns shouldn't they be included? So Joe why don't we start with that? Why do we work off to this number of seller's discretionary earnings and what is seller's discretionary earnings? Joe: That's a good question and a great place to start. Just defining it simply is the best way to go. So when you're running a profit loss statement as a business owner; hopefully in Quick Books or Xero or something like that, you're going to get a net income line at the bottom. So let's say you do it for the trailing 12 months you get a net income. But there are certain owner benefits that you get as the owner of the business. You have an Internet-based business; you may write your car off in that business. You may pay yourself $200,000 salary in the business. All sorts of things like that they're generally owner benefits and then there are some one-time non-recurring expenses; these are things that do not carry forward to the new owner so they're classified as add backs. So net income plus add backs equals seller's discretionary earnings or SDE. It is what business is in this general category are multiplied by; they're valued at a multiple of the trailing 12 months seller's discretionary earnings. So that's the critical nature of an add back; it can make a tremendous difference in the value of the business when using a proper formula. If you don't do that the add backs properly you're either going to under inflate or in some cases, unfortunately, some inexperienced brokers might over-inflate the value of your business. So it's critical for both buyers and sellers to know how to calculate seller's discretionary earnings and what is a valid or legitimate add back. Mark: Yeah and I think on that the thing I would like to just add here and emphasize is that there are rules to seller's discretionary earnings. I know I've talked to some sellers, I've talked to some other brokers frankly outside of Quiet Light Brokerage and they feel as if well if you can make an argument for it then we can add it back and they approach this almost as if it's just a free for all as to who can make the best argument. The fact of the matter is there is an actual definition for seller's discretionary earnings and there are rules to follow. Now that doesn't mean that there aren't some situations that require interpretation. And we're going to go into some of those scenarios in this podcast today where you have to try and figure out is this a legitimate add back or not? But at the heart of seller's discretionary earnings when we are showing seller's discretionary earnings what we want to do is we want to show a baseline number for buyers to understand what is my potential return on investment? When you think about all the different buyers that are going to look at a potential opportunity, every buyer comes with their own set of assumptions, right? Some buyers might already have infrastructures set up to run a business; maybe they already have a marketing team in place or maybe they' already have a warehouse if it's an e-commerce business or if it's a SaaS business maybe they already have a development team in place. Those assumptions need to be worked into their own evaluation of the business. What we want to show is a baseline number so that you as a buyer can figure out what your potential return on investment is for you. And that's going to vary from one buyer to the next. So seller's discretionary earnings that's all it is; it's a baseline number, we want to be consistent from one business to the next that's why there are rules as to how we calculate this number. Joe: Right and even though combined we've got 20 years of experience doing this and have sold well over a hundred million in transactions just the 2 of us combined it's still a case by case basis and you got to dig into each particular business and get an understanding of the nuances of it to determine whether or not it's worth doing an add back based upon the size of the business and the total number of add backs and if it should be done. Generally speaking, there are 3 different levels of add backs; the first 2 are pretty standard, it's the third one that we want to spend the most time on today because of the nuances of them. But let's run through that first and second level. Mark, if you want to start off with that first level why don't you address the owner's salaries in add back. Mark: Yeah, absolutely. Joe, I like the format you put together here. You created these 3 levels of add backs; the obvious, the one time expenses, and then the ones that require a bit more interpretation. So the very top of the list here are these a level one obvious add backs. We have things like charitable donations; obviously, that's purely discretionary nature. We have accounting expenses such as amortization and depreciation. And then we have one owner salary. And I know there are buyers out there that look at this and say well why are you adding back somebody's salary; like you need to pay yourself some money? But this is a standard add back that we always include and it's part of the standard definition for seller's discretionary earnings. The reason for this is how you pay yourself as an owner, how much you pay yourself, and the format you pay yourself is completely discretionary. You could in theory not pay yourself any salary and just take distributions from the company from the profits. Or you can pay yourself a very large salary and run all your payroll tax through that which will show up on the profit and loss statement. What we do for the owner's discretionary earnings we do add back one owner salary. But there is an exception to this and that's if there's multiple owners that are working full time on the business. Because we know that if there's multiple owners working on a business you can't add back all of their salary. You can only add back one. Did I explain that well Joe or does that need more? Joe: Let's go a little bit more. What happens; what do you do Mark if you have 2 owners that are working a combined 25 hours a week, one is doing customer service and logistics, and the other is doing sales and marketing. Do you add them both back? Mark: I would add both those back. Joe: Okay. Let's flip it up; let's say that one is doing sales, marketing, logistics, and the other is a developer. And the level of work that that developer does still only takes 15, 20 hours a week but it takes a different skill set than the average person has. Do you add them both back? Mark: No, I would not add both those back. Although we will discuss this in Level 3 add back. I might adjust that second owner salary depending on what they're getting. But the reason I wouldn't do it is because of the specialized nature of it. So what we're assuming here is that the buyer is a single person who is coming in and needs to run this business. I wouldn't expect most buyers to have developer skills to run a business. So maybe you do; if you do, that's great you're going to do really, really well. But most people can't be that sales and marketing plus developer role. I've done this for over a dozen years now. I've run across that skill set a handful of times. It's not very, very common. Joe: That's right. So those are the; even though these are just Level 1 add backs there are some complexities to it that require some attention to detail on the nuances of one business to the next. The only other things that are pretty obvious in there are personal meals and entertainment, travel, mobile home…mobile phones; everybody's got their own mobile phone that expense doesn't charge for. You've already got that expense. Things of that nature are pretty much Level 1 add backs. Jumping on the Level 2 add backs it's really focused on those one-time expenses; things like a trademark or a copyright, patents, things of that nature. And then there are some that are a little bit deeper like legal expenses and lawsuits and enforcement letters and things of that nature even the thing that we have to do often Mark which is referring potential clients; people that we do valuations for that are not using a kind of software. We'll refer them out to a bookkeeper. So in this situation Mark, tell me if we're on the same page. We will get a call somebody has got a great business but they've got 3 years of data in an Excel spreadsheet that is not using any accounting software. Or they might be using Fetcher and piecing different pieces together. I would refer them out to a bookkeeper like CapForge, MuseMinded, Stellar Accounting, Catching Clouds; one of those and get them on Quick Books or Xero. And generally, that's a one time expense for them to build that, put that data in the software in arrears maybe $1,500, $2,000. To me, that is without a doubt a one-time expense and an add back; would you agree with that? Mark: Yeah I would and I'm glad that we agreed because if we don't it's just going to be an absolute brawl on the podcast, right? Inaudible[00:11:27.2] here is fighting with the microphones. No, absolutely that would be a one time expense. It's something that does not carry forward. But we have a great example of that with somebody who's been a friend of Quiet Light Brokerage for a while; Scott Deetz from Northbound Group. He's a strategic advisor who helps clients in a lot of ways. He does a fantastic job with his clients. Specifically a lot of Amazon stores but he also works with other companies as well. He does forecasting and a lot of preparation for an exit. And his fees are all one time expenses. Even though that you can see a monthly fee during that preparation, the goal is to prepare for an exit. So those are fees that get added back in the bottom line. So recasting books going back and trying to recast those books either in accrual format or just cleaning them up I would totally consider that to be a one time expense. As with the other things that you mentioned; the trademarks and the logo design, you shouldn't be punished for the expenses that are really necessary to be able to run the business or only occur once or will occur in the future. Joe: Yeah. And there is again always nuances; sometimes an owner is going to buy a new computer. But it's their new laptop that they use and they're going to keep that and it's not going to carry for you then that's a one time expense; things of that nature, a case by case basis from business. So again nuances, deep-diving into the business, no 2 are alike. Mark: I have been hearing you say this for a long time our own kind of sliding into this Level 3. But in Level 3 you always say math and logic Mark; it's for math and logic. What makes sense? How does the math work out? And look this actually works out for Level1 and Level 2 as well. You have to use math and logic. But Level 3 is where we start getting into the interpretation of different expenses, right? Because these are the grey area ones where maybe it's not as straightforward as saying amortization and depreciation; that's a pretty obvious add back. Charitable donations; pretty obvious add back. So let's go into this Level 3 and get some examples on a case by case basis. Here are things that we've seen in the past which; look at Quiet Light we've actually had some pretty big discussions with all of the advisors of Quiet Light that we have this large group chats and sometimes we've disagreed in trying to work out how we should actually treat these expenses. And I want to start out with one that Joe you and I have talked about a lot and that would be events, trade shows, and Mastermind fees; how do you handle those? Joe: I almost moved this to the bottom of the list so we didn't start off with one that is pretty tough and it was talked about a lot. This is a case by case basis. If somebody joins a Mastermind group in the trailing 12 months prior to selling their business and they pay $20,000 to join that group, it's a one time expense; absolutely an add back, it kind of moves up to Level 2. But let's say they also choose to go to an annual event that that Mastermind group has. And they do that at their own expense; let's say they go to Seattle, I was just at Blue Ribbon, those people that were in Blue Ribbon; I'm sorry at the Seattle event not all of them were at the Miami event just 6 months prior and so it's definitely a choice to go to the event or not. Some people never go. There are lots of people that are in eCommerceFuel that we've never met because they never go to any of the events. So the choice to go to an event, it's an expense that doesn't carry forward. It's one that I see as an add back. Our team has talked about it quite a bit; that's an add back. But there are other types of Masterminds and events; we'll call them events in this situation that are not add backs that you and I have talked about. So if you are an advertising agency or any kind of company that's going to these events to build your company brand and reputation even amongst the people that are part of the Mastermind it's integral to your business. Like us, we go and we sponsor. That's integral to our business; our business models. We are sponsoring, we're getting our own brand and our own name out there; that's not an add back. An ad agency does the same but might just be a member of the Mastermind or events and is doing training courses in free valuations or free testing things of that nature we would have to really dig down into that one and determine if it's an add back or not. And it's probably not an add back. But for the rest of the folks most likely an add back; the only adjustment you and I have talked about that is we'd have to look at and say logically does it make sense to add this back? Do we have 2 lines of add backs? Is it a business that's valued at 250,000 or 2.5 million? Sometimes you say you know what at this level it's not worth adding it back; let's just leave it alone it's only going to add you another $300 per month back to it and you can play with a multiple in that situation. Would you agree? Mark: Yeah I absolutely agree. You have to pick your battles on this and if you have to really fight to be able to justify an add back you should look at it and say is it really worth it? Like is it is a big enough expense where I'm going to gain enough potential value out of adding it back and making that argument. I want to throw a little wrinkle at you, Joe. We have not discussed this before and it's a question that I'd like to get your opinion on. The difference I see between these Mastermind fees, events, travel-related expenses would fall under this idea of is it a personal development or business development, right? I don't add back the business books I buy. The business books I buy are personal development and I consider that to be just for myself. Obviously, there's a business application for that. I want to become better at what I'm doing but I think that's more personal related. So the line I see is again this idea between is it development for business or is it personal development? So if I go to Pubcon without really putting Quiet Light name on it I'm just an attendee I would consider that to be a valid add back. Let's go into a scenario where you have an employee; let's say that you have somebody who works specifically as a content writer for you and is possibly doing SEO and you send them to MASCON because you want them to become better at SEO for the purpose of your business. How would you handle something like that? Joe: It's off the top my head not an add back. But then you've got to look at the history of the business because that's business development, right? You got to look at the history of it; is that something that they're going to do every year, are they're going to get new information every year and develop their skills, are they going to send different employees, have they done it for the last 2 or 3 years? You got to look at all those nuances again and determine whether or not it's an add back. But because it falls in that business development versus personal development I think you and I know everybody on the team would lean towards no that's not an add back. Mark: I would agree. So again this is where you have to kind of take a fine scalpel here and kind of slice this up and really understand what's going on behind this add back. And again as you went out with this Joe math and logic and I think reason as well. You have to be sort of reasonable with some of these so that it's not just you're going through; sometimes I see sellers come back with their own add back schedules and they're super aggressive and every last dime is trying to be added back. And it's a question at some point where you have to ask them what can we really say is a reasonable add back versus just being as aggressive as possible? Joe: Right. So let's take that scalpel and dig down into a P & L for instance; of course we're not doing it live here, but one of the things that that when you peel back the different layers that we always ask the question okay you're spending a lot of money on advertising here; what type of credit card are you using for that advertising? And then are you getting points back on that, what are you doing with those points? 9 times out of 10 people are doing cashback credit cards or converting them over to travel but they're pushing all that over on the personal side of that's an owner benefit. It's income, right? You're getting cash back, you spend $10,000 you get $400 back. If you spend $10,000 a month on advertising and you get that $400 back and you slide it over to your personal side and it never shows up on your profit and loss statement we need to look at it closely. It's an add back. You can multiply that times whatever number you want and then make the decision, right Mark whether it's worth it to add that back or not. Jason and I had a listing that we worked on last fall where there were about $24,000 in cashback points added up over the course of 12 months and it was very, very measurable; clear and distinct because that person spent a lot of money on advertising plus he bought used inventory that was going to be refurbished. And he bought them from different places on the web. And all of that was done with a credit card. All of that was converted to cashback points that moved over to his personal side; amounted to about $25,000 on an annual basis. It's a significant number. The business was listed at a 4 time multiple. It was cash in his pocket so we did add that back and it bumped the valuation by $100,000. If we're talking about a business that's $4M but that amounts to $3,000 then maybe you don't add it back. You just got to play around with those numbers a little bit and again use more math and logic there. Mark: Yeah and I think here that the key that I would look at would be the consistency of it. If you're advertising budget is over $100,000 a month for example and you're putting that on your Amex gold card and part of your strategy is look I'm getting some margin from the points I'm getting back; that's pretty obvious in that category of its part of your existing business model. But like you said if you have just kind of a small amount of points, it's probably not worth the effort to put that in there and try and justify that. So I think that's pretty reasonable. Joe one question that we hear a decent amount would be website redesigns and we can also throw in here product development or even in the SaaS world development on a SaaS product. Why don't we start to unpack some of these and we'll start with the website redesigns. Obviously, most people who have a web-based business unless you're purely Amazon have a website and part of that is you're going to have to redesign the website every now and then. I mean there are some sites out there that have look exactly the same since 2000 but most businesses do update that and those can be expensive. You can easily drop 10, 20, 30, $40,000 on that if not more. So how would you approach website redesigns or website redevelopments? Joe: I would look at the history in the P & L to get a clue of the way the business has been run because that's the way it's going to be operated in the future. And if there's never been a website redesign and it's on a good current up to date platform like Shopify and the business is trending in all the right directions then; obviously there's been a website redesign because that's the point of this add back so let's say that it's been done in the last 12 months but had never been done before and the business is 7 or 8 years old and it's just been put on a new platform and they spent $20,000 on it I would say that; and I have in the past done 100% add-back on that website redesign. But again it varies from business to business. If I'm looking at a business that's operated like Quiet Light Brokerage just by example you have a tendency to redesign the website often. I think there's been 3 or 4 versions of it in the last 7 years that I've been with Quiet Light. So, in that case, it's either simply not an add back or you do some math and let's say you're going to redesign a website every 3 years you might take that cost; $10,000 website redesign and add back 50% of it or a third of it and things of that nature. Because if it happened in the last 12 months it's not an expense that's going to happen in the next 12 months so there has to be some mathematical adjustment there. And again math and logic; look how often it's been redesigned, do the math on when in the future would you redesign again, and just do partial adjustment more often than not. Mark: Yeah, I would agree 100%. And the thing to look for here obviously if it's on the last 12 months it probably isn't going to get looked at too closely. But I think you have to look at why. Like the Quiet Light website gets redesigned a decent amount and that's simply because I get anxious about stuff like that. That's just kind of what I do. I'm always tweaking; always thinking that I should dust scraps and start it over again. And so I actually do think with Quiet Light it's mostly discretionary in nature but again this reasonableness needs to come in. Joe: Not always discretionary but it takes 12 months every time that you start. Mark: It's absolutely ridiculous. Joe: Why don't you touch on product development? It's interesting you bring that up. I've got a physical products e-commerce business and I'm developing new products; do I get to add that cost back? Mark: Yeah I think again we need to use math and logic here, a little bit of reasonableness, take a look at what type of business you are in. Here's the thing about e-commerce; Chad Reuben when he was on the podcast about a year ago mentioned this, product development is the lifeblood of most e-commerce businesses; you rarely, rarely run across a business that is truly evergreen with its product or you never have to iterate. Apple comes out with an iPhone every year. Android products are constantly coming out with a new phone every year. Car companies constantly come out with a new car every single year. Product development is the lifeblood of businesses. So on that note no I don't think that you can add back product development costs. I do think maybe if you're coming out with like a large truly one time sort of burst maybe I would look at it. Joe: Maybe if there's a mold, right? If you paid $5,000 for a mold of that product that mold is going to last 10, 20 years perhaps. That mold maybe partial add back but yeah I'm 100% on the same page; product development is the lifeblood of a business. The molds thing is so rare; 105 businesses I think I've sold in the last 7 years and I think maybe only Sean van der Wilt's business has actual molds that are part of it and that he owned. In other cases, it's generally the manufacturer that has the mold anyway. So yeah adding back product development expenses can't really do it. What about the SaaS development? We're not all e-commerce here; we're selling content and SaaS and things of that nature as well. You've got a developer that's been doing some certain projects within the last 12 months; are you adding that back? Is that black and white? Mark: It is not black and white but I do think that if you are looking at for example your initial build of the software that's going to be very intense, very cost-intensive. That I think could be added back. Regular maintenance, regular feature updates; absolutely not because a SaaS business needs to have updates, needs to have new features added. If you're going to redevelop the entire SaaS product from the ground up; maybe you're switching technology stacks, that's something where I would take a look at that and again reason and logic need to really…math and logic really need to reign with this. But generally speaking no; just as product development is the lifeblood of an e-commerce business, software development is the lifeblood of a SaaS business. Joe: We are 100% on the same page. There is no question about it. Mark: No fights here, thank goodness. Joe: Yeah. We've got 3 points left and really the last 2 points I think are ones that get missed most often and can add a tremendous amount of value to the business. But the first one of the 3 here is pretty obvious and maybe we could have we actually talked about moving this up into Level 1 but it's a repaid relative. I sold a business a couple of years ago where the owner of the business paid his brother to do customer service. They paid him $20 an hour for 20 hours a week worth of work. I talked to the brother. I talked about his job and what he did. He said yeah I really only put in about 5 hours a week. Most of what I do is automated; it's canned responses with customer service. And so we talked about the work and the level of detail there and just added some logic there and some math and said look you are grossly overpaid. Your brother loves you. I'm going to suggest that he fires you; and again this is just before Christmas, of course, he didn't. Mark: Oh my you told him to fire his brother. We've talked about this before. Joe: I know. It was a $10,000 add back or whatever the number was. So we just did some math, right? We said alright how much does it cost to get a really good high-quality virtual assistant; $4 or $5 an hour. Okay, let's double that. We know you're only working 5 hours a week but we're going to go with you 20 hours a week times whatever the number is and we're going to add it back. So instead of the $20 an hour times 20 hours we took $10 an hour on those 20 hours a week and we added back the adjustment there. It's in black in white in the add back section with an explanation of why. So math and logic applied to a situation like that; that overpaid relative and it absolutely works and is am add back. And it has to be a big enough number to be an add back. In this case, the total add back was a pretty sizable number. So pretty clear there in my view would you agree with that on Mark? Mark: Yeah I had a guy who had a really cool business. His mom was doing his bookkeeping and he was paying her $250,000 a year for her bookkeeping services. Joe: What? Mark: That's a pretty expensive bookkeeper. That's a pretty obvious case of look it's a relative; he's paying his mom good for him, what a great son; better son than I am to my mom, and pretty obvious add back. And look I'm going to tie in something that we had from Level 1 here and that is where you have 2 owners and you brought up the example one owner is business development and marketing, sales and marketing and the other one is a developer. And I said well we should take a look at that developer side probably and probably not add back his salary but you've got to take a look at how much is he getting paid. I'm dealing with a client who has that sort of set up and the developer side; they're both getting paid the same amount of money and it's basically the profits of the business. We're going to add back in a reasonable and a pretty generous salary for a replacement development. And that's kind of the way that we would look at that is what is a replacement cost? You don't want to be super aggressive on that. It's got to be reasonable. It might be a little bit generous to say here's what the replacement of this person would cost. So you can do that with relatives. It can get a little bit tricky. I had one company that I dealt with where literally the company was basically run by this guy's family which brought up some issues with the transferability of the business. Because there were so many people involved that were family related but they were all getting these big fat paychecks. And so if we had gone to market; we didn't go to market with that one but we would have had to go in and try to find reasonable replacement costs for most of these people which will be then a little tricky. Joe: Yeah. Look, I can assure all sellers out there; all business owners that are smart enough to do some thinking and planning in advance of a sale, your buyers are going to be intelligent people that are going to be thorough and diligent. And doing that logical adjustment that Mark just talked about for that developer who's your business partner that is a non-transferable skill you've got to hire that out. You're just going to have to do that and it's going to help build trust and help you achieve your goals in getting your business sold. If we have to push the multiple if it makes sense because there's other amazing trends in the business then we can push the multiple a little higher as long as it's still within a reasonable area. The next add back is one that I just did this year as an example with Mike Jackness when we sold Color It. And I'm going to go ahead and mention the podcast series that Mike and I did because I think it's invaluable for both buyers and sellers to listen to and Mark I'm going to just tell you right now I think that you and I did a decent job in doing the intro for the podcast and then me doing an interview with Mike on our podcast. Mike did a much better job on his podcast. So I'm going to point people… Mark: They're actually pros at this. They're very good at it. We're just kind of fly by the seat of their pants. Joe: Yeah. He did an amazing job. And he actually did a series of 4 in total; 2 of them were with me and the one at the beginning one at the end was with his staff, his staff down in the Philippines before and after the sale. So he went through the whole arc. But it's episode 247 of the EcomCrew Podcast and the first one was Preparing Your Business For Sale and the second one was What It Was Like Going Through Due Diligence And Actually Getting It Sold. Now one of the things that we focused on in Mike's add back schedule was cost of goods sold. Let me give some just general numbers here; broad examples, these aren't actually from his business but let's say that what he did do was he renegotiated the cost of goods sold on one particular ASIN. He could have done it on more if he had planned in advance of selling his business instead of deciding to sell his business because he was emotionally ready to move on. We could have waited another year and he would have had a much more valuable business. But we didn't do that because he was ready. So in this situation again it's magic and loss; math and logic; oh my goodness, see this is why Mike's podcast is better…math and logic. Mark: Well I'm sure a lot of buyers out there look at sleaze and say this doesn't look like magic; it doesn't make sense. Joe: I said magic and loss; oh man, oh man. We're not editing that out. Chris, don't touch that. Alright, so Mike renegotiated the cost of goods sold on 1 ASIN. The reduction in cost was it came down $1.60. It was already on the books. He already had product in Amazon FBA and it was shipping and it's been in FBA already for 2 months. What we did; it was a $1.60, so what we did was we looked at the sales per month of that ASIN for the other 10 months going back in the P & L took that dollar amount and multiplied it times $1.60. Let's just say for simple math it was 1,000 units a month, right? I say simple math but here I am looking to the other calculator. If you got 1,000 units a month times $1.60 we're looking at 1,600 dollars a month times 10 months it's a $16,000 mathematical and absolutely legitimate add back; math and logic there. That times the multiple applied to the business; let's just say if it's 3 times that's a sizable add back, it's $54,000, no, $48,000. How's my math? Mark: We'll 48,000. On this I want to go back to where we started this conversation; why do we do these add backs at all? Again it's the idea that we want to show a buyer they're expected return on investment and we want to show a set number standardized approach so that you can interject your own assumptions. And the reason that this is completely valid to do even though you can take a look and say well the actual expenses were not this is because this is the forward-looking numbers that we know are going; the way that the business is going to be run in the future. Joe: That 10 months of expenses there will not carry forward so we needed to make an adjustment for that. Mark: Exactly the only thing we would need to verify would be in due diligence the supplier is going to give the same or similar terms to the new buyer. That would be the only thing that we really need to confirm there. So I think this makes complete sense. Joe: 100%. Mark: Did you get any pushback from buyers on that? Joe: Not an ounce and the buyer that bought the business is; I mean he went to Harvard, he's a very smart guy, he's bought 4 other businesses from Quiet Light Brokerage, and he understands all of this. And he's got investors that review everything so no pushback at all. Mark: Yeah. Alright, next one on your list you have here reduced fees times units sold. Joe: Look, everyone listening that's considering a sale of their business this last one is why you cannot have one conversation with a business broker for 30 minutes and decide that that's the one you've got to go with because if they're incredibly good at sales they're going to talk you into something in 30 minutes. Now I shouldn't say that because; well, look you've done research on Quiet Light, you've listened to the podcast, you've listened to different examples so maybe you can but you got to dig deep. This happened to me recently in like the third conversation on having in a review of the profit and loss statement. This is why we review profit and loss statements. We learned that the owner of this particular business that I'm talking about repackaged; worked on repackaging all of his product SKUs and in doing so it changed the level of pick pack and ship at Amazon. So he was at let's say Level 5 and he came down at Level 4; now these are costs. They're not called that but his fees at Amazon went down. Let's call it a dollar. So instead of $5 pick pack and ship fee, it was $4 because it was a smaller package, lighter package, things of that nature. So he did that. Again let's go to the same thing we did here with Jackness's business. He did it in the last 2 months, it's on the books for the last 2 months, so we're going to the prior 12 months and went okay how many units did you sell during those prior 12 months or 10 months times a dollar per unit and we're doing an add back for that because that adjusted expense in the past went away and it does not carry forward; same thing, different scenario. Mark: Yup, absolutely. So I think there's 2 ways when we're looking at some of these kind of I don't want to creative add backs but the ones that require a little bit more explanation. The one thing that I would just encourage people to keep in mind is that when we see some of these add backs which go back and recast numbers there are some situations where it makes sense to rather than going back and doing that add back bake in some of the value into the multiple as opposed to the trailing 12 months. If we keep in mind that the basic approach to estimate in value in a basic valuation approach would be your trailing 12 months discretionary earnings times some multiple, it doesn't matter if you increase your discretionary earnings by 10% or increase your multiple by 10%; the result on your valuation is going to be the same. And so I think there is a little bit of discretion and strategy that needs be taken into account by both the broker and the seller when it comes to determining where do we want to get this value in. The thing you need to always keep in mind is are you actually offering real value to a potential buyer? Is this really going to be valuable for the forward-looking future for that; I don't know if there's a backward-looking future, for the future of the new owner of the business and where are they going to get that value? So you might be hearing this and thinking this is pretty complex I don't know if these things would be really a legitimate add back or not. Look if you find this difficult that's because some of it is and some of it does require discussion. And as I said at the beginning we have these discussions at Quiet Light all the time. We will share something with the entire team and say what do you guys think this? Here's what I'm thinking, I should have it added back. And sometimes we disagree but we always are able to figure out where that line should be. So I'm going to just throw this invite out; if you have a question on whether or not something would be an add back ask us. Hound us and say what do you think of this; do you think this would be a legitimate add back or not? And that would be on the buy-side or on the sell-side. If you're look at an opportunity and maybe with another broker or directly with the seller and they're adding something back and want to know what our thoughts are let us know. We'd love to weigh in on it. Joe: Let's route another invite there and let's find a way to do an actual valuation; we'll do video as well as audio. We'll remove the client's names. We'll just use first name and we won't use the business name. And we'll do it sort of Mike Jackness, Ecom Crew Under The Hood Valuation and record it so everybody can hear the process we go through. Man that being in a 2 or 3 part series because it's such a long in-depth, detailed process. The only thing I want to throw is that we are developing webinars here at Quiet Light that will be up on the new 48-month long redesign that Mark's been working on. Yes that's a little wise-ass comment there but the webinars will be up, they will be available in detail for you folks to dig deeper and see us go through some of this add back schedule in the process of doing one that is titled "What's a Legitimate Add Back?" and all of this will be in webinar format where you can see actual profit and loss statements and whatnot. Mark: Sounds great. I look forward to doing those. I don't have anything else on add backs. I think we've just covered the entire topic as deeply as you possibly could actually no we could probably talk for another couple of episodes in some of these things but I don't have anything else to add for this one. Do you have anything Joe? Joe: No, we're good. It was great having 2 very special guests on the podcast; one much more special. According to Andrew Youderian, you're special. Mark: I like that guy. He's such a good guy, isn't he? Joe: Andy Youderian. Has anybody reached out to him with my little Easter egg stuff that I did on the video? But we're not showing the video yet, right? Mark: I had and actually we are showing the video and that's something for you guys to know. Subscribe to us on YouTube at Quiet Light Academy. These podcasts are now up in video form so you can look at our pretty faces while you listen to us argue about add backs. I don't think anyone has reached out to him about the little Easter egg we had in that podcast episode. Because I talked to him recently and he didn't bring it up. Joe: So for those that have no idea what we're talking about and have stuck with us at the end of this podcast here's the deal. I was driving down the road listening to the Quiet Light Podcast where Mark had Andrew on with state of the e-commerce. Mark: One of the best episodes I think we ever did. Joe: Whatever you say Mark. I think this is the best episode we've ever done. Alright, so Andrew says yeah you guys have been doing a really good job. I got to tell you Mark I think you have a bit of an edge over Joe. Because Mark and I always competing with who's got the best episodes and the most downloads. And I swear I almost; I had to pull over I was laughing so out. It was so, so funny. He's a bit of a prankster. So I figured I'd get him back. And so I had an Incredible Exit Series on, we had somebody; actually it was an Incredible Acquisition, right? Karl Selle bought Smart And Fresh and so we had Karl on a podcast about that and during the podcast I pretended that our producer Chris interrupted us and handed me a sheet that it was kind of an emergency, he was looking to get in touch with somebody named Andy Youderian. I could not pronounce Andrew's name properly. But for those that go to the YouTube channel you'll see that I have an EcommerceFuel t- shirt on and that the EcommerceFuel podcast is in the background; a mouse pad is in the background. So clearly I know Andrew Youderian. I want to call him Youderainan from now on. Clearly I know Andrew. My kind would call those Easter eggs. I think that's what they're officially called in Marvel movies. So I just threw in a few Easter eggs there. It was kind of fun. We did get one person that sent an e-mail to me and he goes I think the person that your producer is looking for is Andrew Youderian for EcommerceFuel. And I said well that was kind of a joke. I had to send a note back. But it was kind of fun. Mark: Well he was right though. It is the person we're looking for. We have an Easter egg coming up in one of the movie quotes so you guys have to dig deep on these movie quotes. And I don't know which episode it's going to be live on. Listen to the different intros. There's going to be one that you're going to have a really hard time finding but I'll tell you what I want you to find this one whenever it airs. That's really, really difficult and I will get with our producer next week's podcast and make sure that we give you a little hint as to which podcast to listen to for this movie quote because it's just an absolute gem. Joe: Awesome. Let's wrap it up with that. Links and Resources: ECom Crew Episode Quiet Light Academy YouTube

About This Episode: Today's guest has Consulted for Golden State Warriors… Aggregated 120 Billion Impressions on Facebook for a massive case study… AND Once ran a 70 mile marathon. Dennis Yu is the Chief Technology Officer of BlitzMetrics, a digital marketing company which partners with schools to train young adults. Dennis's program centers around mentorship, helping students grow their expertise to manage social campaigns for enterprise clients like The Golden State Warriors, Nike, and Rosetta Stone. He's an internationally recognized lecturer in Facebook Marketing and has spoken in 17 countries, spanning 5 continents, including keynotes at L2E, PubCon, Conversion Conference, and Marketo Summit.   Find out more about Dennis at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennisyu/ dennis@blitzmetrics.com   See the Show Notes: www.jeremyryanslate.com/587   Sponsors: Command Your Brand Media: Looking to grow your brand as a guest on top rated podcasts? Visit www.commandyourbrand.media Audible: Get a free 30 day free trial and 1 free audiobook from thousands of available books. Right now I'm reading "Blow Back," by Brad Thor head over to www.jeremyryanslate.com/book 

Larry Kim: Founder of MobileMonkey & WordStream Larry Kim is the founder and CEO of MobileMonkey, the world's best Facebook Messenger marketing platform. He's been named Search Marketer of the Year from PPC Hero (2013, 2014, 2015, and 2017), Search Engine Land, and the US Search Awards. Larry is ranked the #8 most popular author on Medium. He's a contributor to CNBC and Inc. Magazine. He's a notable expert on Facebook Messenger chatbot marketing, Google Ads, Facebook Ads, entrepreneurship and start-ups. Larry founded MobileMonkey to give marketers the opportunity to connect with customers on the most popular mobile chat application, Facebook Messenger, used by over a billion people every day. MobileMonkey is an easy to use and free platform for building powerful Facebook Messenger marketing chatbots, no coding required. Larry is also the founder and former CTO of WordStream, Inc., the leading provider of AdWords, Facebook and keyword tools used by over a million marketers worldwide. The company employs more than three hundred people and manages billions of dollars of ad spend on behalf of tens of thousands of customers. WordStream was acquired by Gannett, parent company of USA TODAY, for $150 million in July, 2018. Larry believes in active participation in the digital marketing community, which is why he speaks at conferences across the country and internationally each year, including Dreamforce, INBOUND, PubCon, SMX, SearchLove, Social Media Marketing World, and hundreds of others.  He also shares his knowledge as a prolific author for widely read marketing publications including the WordStream Blog, Search Engine Land, Search Engine Journal, Social Media Today, Social Media Examiner, Moz Blog, @Search Engine Watch, Business Insider, and many others.  He frequently publishes his research, findings and experience in the areas of chatbot marketing, PPC marketing, AdWords, Facebook Ads, and SEO, as well as entrepreneurship and start-ups. Larry holds a degree in Electrical Engineering from the University of Waterloo. Watch the full episode here: https://projectegg.co/larry-kim About The Project EGG Show: The Project EGG Show is a video talk show that introduces you to entrepreneurs from around the world. It is broadcast from studios in Metairie, Louisiana to online platforms including YouTube, iTunes, Google Play, Spotify and Stitcher, and hosted by Ben Gothard. Our goal is to give you a fresh, unscripted and unedited look into the lives of real entrepreneurs from around the globe. From billionaires to New York Times best selling authors to Emmy Award winners to Forbes 30 Under 30 recipients to TEDx speakers – we present their real stories – uncensored and uncut. Subscribe To The Show: https://projectegg.co/podcast/ Get Access To: 1. Resources: https://projectegg.co/resources/ 2. Financing Solutions: https://projectegg.co/epoch/ 3. Payment Solutions: https://projectegg.co/sempr/ 4. Services: https://projectegg.co/resources#services 5. Courses: https://projectegg.co/resources#courses 6. Software: https://projectegg.co/resources#software 7. Book: https://projectegg.co/resources#books --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/projectegg/support

This week Paul and JD record from PubCon and bring along marketing gurus, Emma Franks from Hanapin and AJ Wilcox from B2Linked. Sure we did the headlines but we also laughed a lot! Google average position is going away, AdX auction is changing, Facebook working on blockchain, Pinterest adds product feed-based ads, Twitter has new video analytics and more! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/the-ppc-show-podcast/message

John began his career working in politics, including as a writer in the Clinton White House, Office of Presidential Letters and Messages. He was also a Speechwriter in the California Governor's Office during the Davis Administration, and later he became an Attorney. John gave up speechwriting and the law to become a blogger and podcaster! He helps business owners connect with anyone they want to connect with. And they find their businesses grow exponentially because of it. He also owns and operates a website and related Podcast called SmartBusinessRevolution.com where he shows entrepreneurs how to build and use relationships to build more value, revenues and profits in their businesses. John's take on the business: The number one, most important thing that will determine your level of success or failure in business is your relationships. In this Podcast episode John shares his insights on building stronger relationships, and connecting with people that can make a difference in your business. Episode Highlights: John's history as a white house intern, staff writer, attorney and entrepreneur Why "helping first" matters most. How to build relationships without being awkward. How to break the ice with a new group of people. Learn some basic mechanics of talking with people. Making connections brings more value. Why delivering value works best. How making introductions builds value for you. How does John make a living in "networking". Events where "mixing" is required and new people are attending. How to monetize Podcasting Transcription: Mark: So I remember an event … I think it was three years ago, I was at Pubcon and I had hired a PR firm to be able to help with Quiet Light Brokerage and some things that we were trying … no was it four years ago we were trying to do and I had hired somebody to come with me from a PR firm and she was an awesome networker. I mean she was phenomenal at what she did. And she came out to me laughing at the networking event at Pubcon because she said this is so funny. She's like I'm so used to networking events where everybody's a professional networker and she said people here obviously are not because everyone was looking down at their phones and shuffling their feet and saying I don't really want to introduce myself to anybody so I'm going to pretend like I actually have something to do on my phone. And you know what that was also me. I'm a terrible networker. I'm not really good at it. I'm a natural introvert. Joe, I understand you had John Corcoran and he's a networker and you guys talked about networking. This is an area where I struggle so I'd love to learn a little bit more about what you guys discussed. Joe: You know one of the first things John said was don't fall asleep, don't tune out because it's networking. You can grow your business dramatically by meeting the right people and being introduced to the right people. You don't go at it with that approach ias John's thought it's more just building relationships and those relationships lead to additional connections and relationships that can help grow your business; double, triple the size of your business. It's helped us dramatically through what this podcast we've met so many people. It's broken down doors and they feel like they know us more because of it. The networking that John talks about is exactly the same. It's through all of the different events that we might attend to. And he kind of gives some tips on breaking the ice to make connections and really kind of the Golden Rule approach to networking. It's a fascinating story. John's actually a fascinating guy. He used to work as a speechwriter for … I think it's called presidential letters during the Clinton administration. He did not know Monica Lewinsky. For those listening, I did ask. It was pre-recording but he absolutely didn't know her. Yeah, everybody chuckles poor girl really, seriously. He went to law school after doing that and eventually became a lawyer, practicing attorney and replaced his income as a lawyer by podcasting and blogging and doing that through networking. Pretty impressive guy, great story and I think he can help a great deal with people that don't realize how important networking is in helping other people is to their business at the end of the day. Mark: Awesome let's go right on into it and learn a little bit more about networking. Joe: Hey folks it's Joe Valley from Quiet Light Brokerage and today I've got a very special guest. His name is John Corcoran and he has a ton of experience both as a writer for the White House, as an attorney, and as a networking specialist. John, welcome to the Quiet Light Podcast. John: Thanks to have had me, Joe. Joe: Quite heavy here man. We met at the Prosper Show you're doing that very thing, walking around with a camera and a microphone, networking, talking to people, helping James do a great job there which they always do and I think you've been a big part of that. But that's my intro right there. I need you to tell these folks that are listening all about your background, your experience, who you are, and what you're all about. John: Sure. Well hopefully, people didn't tune out when they heard oh networking I hate that stuff. That's a funny reaction that people have. It's kind of like sales right? We know it's important but we also kind of hate it. And oftentimes that's because we've had some kind of negative interaction or negative experience with it; some guy coming up and sticking you his business card in your hand, in your face trying to sell you on something at a networking event. I'm not an advocate of that. I think there's a lot smarter ways to do it, a lot of tools that we have available. My background you know when I was a kid I moved around a lot. My father lost a job three separate times and each time we had to move across the country 3,000 miles away; away from family and friends. That experience taught me the importance of building relationships in business and it's critically important. And as a result of that, I've had some amazing experiences in my career. As you mentioned right there in the White House, in the Clinton White House years, speechwriter with the Governor of California. I had my own legal practice for a number of years and now I've got a business called Rise25 and a blog and a podcast called Smart Business Revolution. That's really more of my focus now and we bring people together at live events and I really enjoy doing that. Joe: Tell us a little bit about your background in terms of … I'm looking at your bio here and it says you went from party school to the White House. Just for the sake of the people that are listening, how the hell did you make that transition from being at a party school to writing speeches for the president? John: It's strange I know. It's a strange trajectory. So yeah I mean basically I went from an English major, getting a BA in English at a party school to within a year of that I was a writer in presidential letters and messages in the Clinton White House. It's kind of like a second tier speechwriter. I'm kind of like a … you know as a speechwriter has pulled a hamstring then we would step in, that kind of thing. But it was an amazing experience. I had interned in the speechwriting office during college. It was an amazing experience and I went back to college. And networking lesson number one is keep in touch with the people in your network. And once you build a relationship with someone it's really important to keep in touch with them. And so I was back at college, I knew I'd love to get a job at the White House but not all former interns get that kind of gig and so I kept in touch. I would send things from time to time like speeches or articles or passages that I found that I would send to the speechwriters. Not as a way of saying like hey do you have a job for me? But they … it kept me top of mind and what do you know a month or a couple of months later, a year later something like that they reached back out and said hey we heard about this position for you and I ended up applying and getting it. So it was an amazing experience. Joe: Were you taught that or did you just intuitively share information, stayed in touch and tried to help with little bits and informa,tion that you found? John: Yeah looking back I think really it was part of how I grew up and having to be that kid who is new in the class. I remember what it's like to move in the middle of a school year into … I went from Southern California to Massachusetts which is a huge culture shock. From being a kid it was like out at the beach to like dock siders and button downs and stuff like that in Massachusetts. It's a very different kind of culture and showing up in the middle of the school year when everyone had been in the same group of kids for years and years. And so it taught me the importance of being able to go into a new community and be able to make friends essentially. And I did that a number of times growing up and so I just realize the importance of it. And also just with watching my dad struggle when he got laid off a couple of times, the importance of building a network before you need it. You need to have these things so that when the S-H-I-T hits the fan, which it does from time to time, the economy or your company going under or whatever you've got to have that network. You have to have built those relationships first so that you can use them when you need them. Joe: Yeah I think it's essential. There are several mentors in my life that have given imparted wisdom. One of them is along those lines and it kind of goes with what I've recently studied which is a DarrenDaily … they call them DarrenDaily it's a Darren Hardy program, you know essentially it sounds like what you do about speechwriters was you gave something to them first. You didn't expect anything in return. You were giving them something to help them. Hey here's an idea and you were on top of mind because of that. And then you kept giving throughout the year and eventually, you got something back. Maybe it wasn't your intention to get something back but you were there, you were front of mind and you were offering something to them. I find that the same thing applies to what I do. You talked about networking it'll gross folks, don't tune out because of that. Same thing with a broker man, I'm a "broker" right? I'm a business broker. People get sort of turned off by that if they go with the general label of business broker. But more than anything else we just simply try to help. We try to help people with whatever the issue is, with the experiences that we have, with the knowledge that we have, with the relationships that we have. I refer people out all the time helping them connect with bookkeepers, attorneys, whatever it might be expecting absolutely nothing in return. Eventually, we'll run into them at a conference and spend some time with them and build a relationship with them and then they may refer somebody to us or if when they decide to sell their business they'll think of us first. I don't like networking. I don't. I never have. I'm a bit of an introvert. I love doing the podcast because it's just you and me it's not a whole group of people here. I don't have to walk up in a crowded room. I'm a kind of a low talker so people can't hear me. I've got a big microphone now so that helps. How do you advise people to sort of break the ice with a new networking group or a mastermind group or if they're at an event like Rhodium Weekend like E-commerce Fuel like Smart Marketer, like Blue Ribbon Mastermind, and to just walk up to a group of people and start talking? How do you recommend they do that? Just say hey because obviously, they're strangers too? John: Yeah I mean there's a high level and then there's the mechanics of what you use in a physical … a face to face type of interaction like that which also applies to online. You know a lot of networking we do these days can be through tools like LinkedIn or Facebook or something like that where you can really leverage relationships. So I would say first you got to start with okay am I at the right event to begin with? And that requires some really deep soul searching. Are you going in the right direction with your career? And people do pivots all the time. They change, they just … they lose passion for something. So you have to be sure you're going in the right direction because you can't squeeze blood from a turnip. And if you're at the wrong event then you're not going to find the right people there who you're going to want to engage with or you're going to want to talk to. So start with that and then secondly I think you're right about the give approach. You've got to focus on okay I'm going to give, give, give as much as possible and then after that people are going to want to return the favor. And that doesn't mean you should be taken advantage of but it means you should try and deliver value to people first before you try and hit them with a sales pitch. We've all been hit with a sales pitch right off the bat where people tries to get something from us or tries to get us to buy from them and it just doesn't feel right. It sits in our stomachs. So don't be that kind of person. Be a giver first. And then [inaudible 00:11:08.3] talking to people face to face in an event or something like that. Usually, I think people struggle because they over think it and they think okay I want to come up with some brilliant thing that will be related to my vocation, that will get us in a big discussion around what it is I do so that I can sell them on something. Well, the truth is you should spend a lot more time on just more human conversation. It could about hey how about this crazy weather we've been having or when did you get in? If you're at a conference you know where are you from? Maybe it's something on their attire, maybe they have an interesting shirt on or something like that. A lot of times there are little tidbits that you can you can pick out of there and then that gets you into a conversation. And then people leave little breadcrumbs all the time they just require exploring. People will mention oh yeah I was a little delayed my daughter had a volleyball tournament and so I wasn't able to get here when I wanted to. Well, that's a huge opening right there explore that. Go a little bit further and say oh really where did she play volleyball, what was the tournament, what was … how is she doing, what position is she in? Just taking an interest in people will get you really really far. Joe: It almost goes back to our teenage days when our parents told us just to take an interest in the girls and ask questions and it would work out pretty well. John: I know. Joe: We were teenagers and we paid no attention and we got it all wrong. At least I did, I don't know about you though. John: Exactly. I don't even know if my parents gave me that amount of advice so [inaudible 00:12:37.8]. Joe: I'm trying to do with my kids and I know that you're doing something with your son. I saw it on LinkedIn. I love that you're helping him sell some- John: Yeah we're- Joe: It's … I almost said Girl Scout cookies. John: Yeah … oh no, it's Kab Scout. And it's funny he's like a natural born entrepreneur. He just turned eight and loves selling stuff, loves making money and so we're kind of using it as a teaching opportunity. But right there, there's a good example okay. You said I hate networking, a lot of people say that I hate networking but I love connecting with people. They'll follow it up with that and then I'll say okay well what do you think networking is really? I mean it's connecting with people. Maybe you hate being in a room full of strangers and not sure what to say, that's a given and that's fine. I totally get that. A lot of people get uncomfortable in that kind of situation. But me sharing my son's experience and experience we're going through with learning about setting up a website to sell Boy Scout popcorn as a fundraiser you know that's a way of remaining top of mind with people who are in your network on LinkedIn. And people see that and then it's also a way of teaching too because I'm also using it as a teaching opportunity as well. And it also personalizes me. I found … you probably found this too, when people they know more about you personally, a passion, or a hobby that you have or they know something about your kids or something they're a lot more connected to you. And I mean I discovered this a long time ago, long before I had kids. When I asked people about their children before I had kids I would ask too about their children because I notice they would light up. And it just breaks down these walls, breaks down these barriers, it allows you to really accelerate the connecting process so that you get to know that person a lot better and they're a lot more motivated to help you. They start to treat their interactions with you less transactionally and more like a true friend, a relationship; something that they actually are invested in helping. So that's why I do things like that is sharing a little piece … if you share a little piece about your life, it's not everything, but sharing a piece about your life it makes people more connected to me. It makes me top of mind and who knows where it might lead after that. Joe: Right, I couldn't agree more. I saw it and I felt it humanized you and I felt like I knew you a little bit better even though we've only met a couple of times. I was a guest on your podcast, you're a guest on ours, and we met at the Prosper Show. So I totally get it. By way of example a lot of people listening they're either buyers or sellers and they love to monetize things. They say well how can I monetize something? And I want to give an example, I got a text today about two hours before this recording where someone was at an event in Miami and I introduced him to somebody else. They connected and he said to me, he sent me a text and he's like thank you for introducing me to so and so. I feel like I got 1.5 million dollars' worth of value out of that lunch and I'm buying a business from him for much less than that so I feel like I've doubled my money. And they were able to meet face to face for the first time and just get that connection. And that particular individual is making a point of helping lots of different people. I can't give you his name but every time I speak with someone that has connected with him it's not about what they got from him it's what … which they did get it's what he did for them. And that comes back around and it gets monetized in a variety of different ways. Most people listening again are either buyers or sellers thinking how the heck is this going to help me? Back when I sold my business in 2010 there weren't really any Mastermind groups. There were certainly not any Facebook groups. There weren't any Smart Marketer events or Rhodium weekend, any of these things that we go to now and connect with people over and over and over again and it's eventually just a trip to hang out with our friends. Hanging out with those friends now and sharing that information without expectations or getting back anything else is what I think is the way to immaterially monetize it. You can monetize it but you have a hard time calculating it. Do you have any direct experiences or examples where you can say you know I introduced these two people … this person connected with so and so and their business took off because of it? John: Oh … I mean I couldn't narrow it down. I mean I have so many examples of that sort of thing and I do it more than most people. So I don't want to say that you need to spend all your time doing that. There are some connectors who spend too much time going out delivering value, connecting other people. But let me put it this way if you try the alternative … the opposite that certainly doesn't work. We know that doesn't work. If you just go out there and you don't try and deliver value and you just try and pitch people we all know that doesn't work very well right? So if you try the alternative, if you try the give first approach you will see dollars and cents to your bank account, others will see dollars and cents in their bank account. I can think of offhand two situations where I introduced two people to each other, kind of like you, you're just an introduction; no strings attached or anything like that. I just thought you two would get along and they started a business together. In one case those two individuals, they lived in the same state but opposite sides of the state. One ended up moving to the other part of the state so that they could work together and have a business together as a result of that one introduction. And you know those people will walk to the end of the earth for me after I've made that introduction. So it definitely turns into dollars and cents in terms of more clients, more referrals that sort of thing. Joe: But that wasn't your intention right? John: No … I mean it's not my intention but I will say this, look we're all in business, we're all motivated by making money, we want to keep the lights on, we want to keep food in the fridge right? So I don't say at all that you should go out there and you should just be randomly introducing everyone on the street or be doing it matchmaking or something like that. You should do it strategically. You should do it because it's good for your business. I'm not saying go on and do it because for charitable purposes although it is a great thing to do and it does great … it puts great good out into the world. I'm saying do it because it's good for your business. It's good for your career. And it has just been the experience that I've lived. There are great books out there by the way, Give and Take by Adam Grant, Dale Carnegie all the books that he's written. These books they give voluminous examples of people who have resulted in much value coming back to them as a result of the value that they put out in the world. Joe: And you got to a lot of events, a lot of networking events where you have got both business owners, employees, founders, and potential buyers attending them; are there any particular events that you love because specifically the way that it's organized for networking that you can … through off the top of your head, two or three of your favorite events? John: Is this cheating or can I say the ones that we do because they're- Joe: You know people are probably going what the hell does this guy do for a living? It's networking, how does he make money so … answer the question how do you make a living? John: Sure. Joe: You're a networking guy, how do you make a living? What do you do? John: Yeah. So … well, first of all, I was a practicing lawyer for many years. And even when I was a practicing lawyer I mean just introducing your clients is really valuable and giving … thinking about your clients because they will send more business back to you. Your referral partners would send more business back to you. So when I was actually full time practicing law I was practicing what I do today. Eventually, that pivoted into a blog and a podcast which replaced my income as a lawyer and I monetized both of those through a variety of digital courses and through affiliate promotions and that sort of thing. Today I run Rise25 with my business partner. We do live events. We go to conferences and we partner with conferences and hold on connection events like VIP receptions, like dinners, like all-day Masterminds at conferences. Again connecting people but we create the forum. We invite the people. We bring them in. Another thing we do also- Joe: Just to understand so you're not actually putting on the entire event, you're putting on a segment of it or a specific group of attendees. John: Right, and there's an important lesson in that because we've done our own standalone events but the reason that we do a lot of that now … an important lesson for others is it's a lot easier to go where the fish are already gathered to go fishing rather than try and pick some spot in the middle of the lake where there are no fish and attract them back to it. Go to the spot where all the fish are gathered which is what we do around conferences. The other thing we do is we do some Done-For-You lead generation as well. So we do Done-For-You lead gen so helping people with the process that we've used for years to generate leads for our self we help other businesses with that as well. Joe: What types of businesses? John: It's primarily professional services but e-commerce as well. So it's anyone who's … I mean who doesn't need leads right? Every business needs leads whether it's you're trying to connect with someone who might buy your business or whether you're trying to connect with new customers or clients or referral partners or strategic partners or whatever. You know there's a lot of different … the truth is everyone need … and like you're selling like a very inexpensive widget which is often the case with e-commerce there's often someone higher leverage who you are trying to connect with. So that might be other website owners or it might be other people who are selling on the same marketplace as you, or just other sellers that you want to connect with, or other professionals or something. It's a variety of different applications that we'd manage for people. But you asked … so you asked the question earlier was types of events that I'm preferable to. The type of event … and I want to answer that because that's an important question and it actually guides my decision making in what events I go to. I don't like going to events where the culture does not encourage people to mix with one another and what do I mean by that? Oftentimes you have events where at a local … this often happens on a local level like at a chamber of commerce or something like that where you have repeat people coming back month after month and they kind of know enough other people that there isn't enough mixing. I like events personally where I go to an event and I can just stick out my hand and talk to someone or someone else will stick out their hand and just talk to me where you feel free to meet other people. The other thing is I really like formats of events which breaks the mold. They're not just the boring, stuffy kind of reception type of format but I like the ones that are different. So actually just last night we had an event in Chicago which was a VIP food tour and we've done this a number of times, I did one in San Francisco a couple of weeks back and it's like a progressive dinner party meets a networking reception. We kind of combine the two and rather than keeping everyone in one room with watered down drinks and talking to each other all night or maybe being at a dinner table where you're stuck talking to the guy in the right of you and the guy in the left of you for the entire night, we take a group and we take them to multiple locations over the course of an evening. So you're up, you're down; you're sitting next to different people the entire time. You're walking or sitting on a bus next to different people. And we love doing that format because it gets people meeting more people which is really what we're about. So that's another piece of what we do. I realize [inaudible 00:23:45.3] to what we do but you asked the question what types of events so I really enjoy that format. Joe: All right. Tell us about Rise25 and the blog … the podcast and the blog. I want to know more about that. I have a feeling here John that people are going to want to listen to your podcast and learn more about what you do. John: Yeah. Joe: Just … let's hear it. John: Yeah so Smart Business Revolution I started it about eight or nine years ago now. It was a blog and a podcast, it still is. I continue to write there. I continue to publish podcasts. I started … this is an important lesson because now we do help clients with this as well so this is part of the lead generation piece is eight or nine years ago when I was a full time practicing law literally I had a client who came in and he hired me for a tiny little matter. It was $500 of writing a lease for him. I was reading about the guy and I was like wow this is a really interesting guy. He was an entrepreneur. He had started multiple companies one of which had gone public. So he's really successful. I was thinking how can I make … how can I turn this guy into like my best client? You know come back to me over and over again. Literally what I just did is I said hey do you have like 20 minutes I'd love to just like ask you some questions about your career and your businesses and everything. I'm going to record it and I'm going to publish it. I didn't even know how to do that. I didn't even know how to record or publish; podcasting wasn't even a thing back then. And so I ended up doing that, I asked him all these questions. What's amazing is you're publicizing that person. It's exactly what we're doing right now. But you're publicizing that person and you're also asking them questions about their challenges, their opportunities, you're figuring out are there other ways that you can help this person or deliver value to that person? And so what do you know he ended up turning into a great client. He ended up coming back to me and saying hey can you help me with this and this and this other thing too. And it's a strategy that I've used over and over again. I've done it probably three or 400 times with different people where you just simply take an interest in someone else. And you go the extra mile so you actually record it and you publish it and you give them a promotion, give them publicity, you send traffic, you send eyeballs to them. Again it's exactly what you're doing right now. You don't have to have a podcast to do it although podcasting is such an accepted and understood medium these days so that's really the best way to do it today. And I think everyone should have a podcast because it's so powerful. Joe: And you've figured out a way to monetize the podcast and the blog as well which is really weird if we think about the fact that you went to law school, quit to be a podcaster and a blogger and you replaced your income. How did you manage to do that? John: Well so, first of all, you can monetize a podcast … when people hear … I know I just wrote an article about this. I did a research study and I surveyed hundreds of podcasters and I asked them how they monetized their podcast. And so you can go to Smart Business Revolution and you can see the article now. It's at Rise25 also. And people generally thought … they thought of the traditional model, the old school media model. Like I'm just going to build up a big audience and then I'm going to sell ads or sponsorship. And that is only one of dozens of different ways of monetizing a podcast. It's actually probably the worst of all of them and yet everyone thinks that that's what you need to do. It's the most difficult to do. So I mean I've monetized my podcast in a variety of different ways including getting more clients, getting more referrals, filling live events, filling webinars, strategic partnerships; you name it. If you can connect what it is you do which is your business, your profession with the podcast which not everyone does a great job of connecting those two. Sometimes they are completely unrelated and if you have a hobby podcast that's fine that's not what we're talking about here. But if you connect those two and you use them to build more relationships with prospective clients, with referral partners, with strategic partners, you use that podcast in order to build more of those relationships and connect with SALT leaders and gurus and speakers and authors that you would never otherwise have a chance of connecting with then it's an amazing powerful tool. It's … I mean I've been able to have conversations with people who would never give me the time of the day you know what I mean? Like I can't email Gary Vaynerchuk and say hey man I would be in New York can you meet me at a Starbucks for 45 minutes? I want to pick your brain; I'm going to ask some questions about my business. Is that cool? [inaudible 00:28:00.1] like who are you I'm not going to do that but I had him on my podcast even though he's a busy guy because of the nature of the medium. So that's why I'm such a huge fan of the medium it's just … and it's a much better way to network. That's what we're talking about right? Connecting, building relationships, seeing how you can help each other, giving, all of those are encapsulated in the process of doing a podcast and everyone should do it. Joe: I agree 100%. It's what we do; it's why we do it. Because we're connecting with people like you that might be hard to connect to or with otherwise. John: Oh yeah absolutely, I wouldn't return your call if it weren't for that. Joe: I know you're never going to list it … and it personalizes things right? You can write an amazing article, give some amazing advice but without that personality behind it, it's just words on paper. We had people tell us that if they chose someone else to go with someone else it's because they felt like they knew them because they listened to their podcast. John: Yeah. Joe: So I think the personalization of it is important. I think that for those listening that maybe an expert on an advertising business, content, blog, or a SaaS business, or an e-commerce business and you're wondering how the heck do you benefit from this, how would you start a podcast and what … how is it going to work for you? You're going to connect with people that are going to be experts giving advice and you're going to benefit from it in your own business being able to apply some of that advice and being able to pick their brain as well. In addition to other people that have had great success that may come onto to the podcast and share their story and may want to do business with you as well. You just never know what's going to come of it if you just help others and give. And yes it is business we're all in this to put food on the table and hopefully put some money in retirement and stop doing this someday when were not capable anymore but it's fun and it's enjoyable. John: Yeah. Joe: And we get to make a living from it which is kind of nice too. John: Yeah and you know I say it's kind of personal and professional development that also doubles as marketing. Because you're enriching yourself, you're learning, you're asking questions, you're learning and you're also recording it and you're going to put it up on the internet and it's going to exist forever. So it's marketing that will be out there for you forever. And if you're asking well I sell a widget, it … I don't see how that's going to help me or maybe it's some other seller out there that you want to connect with or maybe it's potentially a buyer. I mean that's a great way to use that as a tool. It will help me with hiring, recruitment right? There's so many other ways that you can you can do it. I mean I'm sure Joe you've had this experience, I've had this experience when people come up to me and you have a conversation with them and they're just kind of like smiling as they listen to you talk because you know what's going on in their head they're thinking wow he sounds just like he does in the podcast. And people will say that, they'll be like man you just … you talk just like you do in the podcast. Well, guess what when I'm on the podcast that's me. I'm not putting out an act or anything like that I'm just actually being me you know. And we've had people that would go … a couple of people who came in to our event recently in San Francisco who had gotten to know me from the podcast and the funny thing is … and this takes a little getting used to, the funny thing is that they've been listening on their own time while I'm doing other things to episodes, past episodes, the whole back catalog and when they come up they feel like they've already built a relationship with you. That's wonderful because of the know like and trust process right? You are already that much further along so it then makes it just a lot easier to have a conversation with them around some kind of strategic partnership or a client … a relationship of some sort. It's just a lot easier. You'd move the ball a lot further down the field. Joe: 100%, I couldn't agree more and I would recommend that everybody does it. For those that are going to events and I've been to many of them and I have that stigma of being a broker. We don't pitch at Quiet Light, we're just here to help so we have to get around that stigma some way. But I was at an event last March I think it was and I've had a conversation with two or three other people and this guy walked up and he just stood there and he started to shake his head up and down and you know at the right moment he just stuck his hand out and introduced himself. And that I think taught me a lesson. It's the hardest thing to do when you go to some of these events like this, you see groups of people talking and you'd say damn they all know each other. I really don't know anyone. It's my first time here. The reality is that even though they're talking and having a good time and having a drink and laughing they may have just met. That was exactly the case that night. The three of us had just met and this person came into our conversation not knowing whether or not we really knew each other and he was welcomed into it and that's what these events are all about. You should never be shy about walking up to somebody and saying hello. You should never be shy about talking to someone like John, talking to someone like myself if we have something that we can help with that's our operation. That's exactly what we do. We're going to give you any and all advice we can. And if someone like John and myself try to get their hooks into you for a commission they're the wrong people to work with. Just walk away, get what you can, and move on. But don't be afraid to stick your hand out and shake your hand and just say hello. It starts a conversation. It's the hardest thing to do but it's also the best thing to do wouldn't you agree? John: I totally agree. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just funny as you're saying about having a stigma you know I think a lot of people feel that way. Especially when they're in business which most people are right? You're in business, you're at a networking event and you're thinking oh other people are thinking that I'm just going to try and sell them. I know this because people email me every day about this saying these things. And I think a lot of times we get stuck in our head a little bit and look I mean I totally get it. I worked for politicians. I've been a lawyer. I think I'm going to round up my career by working for the IRS or as a tax professional so just the most detested professions possible. So I'm used to being in that type of position. I totally get it but look if you approach not thinking about okay how am I going to get this person as a client as soon as possible and you approach thinking okay I'm just going to learn about this person. I'm going to learn what I can do if there's some recommendation I can provide. Maybe they're a huge fan of something else I'm a fan of and we can connect over that. That's it. That's all that matters. You're going to build up trust. You're going to get to know them. And then later there might be the possibility of doing business together but start with that first and that gives you a great foundation. Joe: I agree if you do that enough your pipeline of new business will eventually fill up and it will be continually flowing. John: Absolutely. Joe: John, how do people find out more about you and learn about your experience and get to listen to the podcast and things of that nature? John: Yeah, thank you sir. So Smart Business Revolution is the podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, wherever you listen to podcasts. SmartBusinessRevolution.com is the website. Rise25 is the other website and yeah reach out, I love hearing from people who heard me on a podcast so I appreciate it. It's a pleasure being here. Joe: You're a good man John. Thanks for your time. John: Thank you. Links: John's LinkedIn Profile Smart Business Revolution Blog & Podcast Rise25 Book recommendation: Give and Take by Adam Grant

Today we are talking to Chuck Mullins all about due diligence. An internet business veteran who is now a part of the Quiet Light team, Chuck purchased his first internet business while still in college and was more successful at 18 than some of the most seasoned entrepreneurs. For both the buyer and the seller, the due diligence process is one of the most difficult parts of buying and selling an online business. Fortunately, there are a lot of tools that can be used to simplify the process. In this episode, Mark and Chuck look at over 20 different due diligence tools and explain how you can use them in our due diligence processes. Episode Highlights: Chuck guides us through a group of tools that can be fundamental to any well thought out due diligence plan. Any buyer knows that this is the most important thing you can do to make sure that no stone is left unturned when preparing to make that purchase and hit the ground running. Try using a due diligence consultant service. We don't advise leaving it all up to them but they can take some of the work out of your hands. Never just research the business but remember to also research who is selling the business. Google trends is very powerful. Google Trends lets you read the trends that any given business may have experienced. Be sure to be aware if your acquisition is "trendy" or "evergreen." SEM tools can provide insight into the business potential and the size of any risks. Website crawling tools are used to determine customer and market trends. Social media tools are an additional way to gain insight into connections for that business and also the business owner's niche interactions in their niche. Lessons from Due Diligence: For first time buyers the best advice Chuck offers is that you don't know what you don't know. Due diligence gives you the answers. Know what a tool is good at, put it in your due diligence toolbox, and use it correctly. Surround yourself with the types of people who can help you. Be careful to use your lawyer for law and your accountant for money. Always remember that you as the buyer ultimately make the business decision. Don't be afraid to ask questions! Keep good records of what you have looked at. Work off a checklist and be meticulous about it. A seller is as interested in you in the success of their business. Transcription Mark: Hey Joe, how are you? Joe: Doing good Mark, how about yourself? Mark: I'm doing well, I'd talk to somebody that we both know well and that's one of our own Chuck Mullins. Joe: Mr. Chuck Mullins, good man he is. Mark: He is, yeah. He joins us on the interview on the video part push on the interview wearing his Quit Light shirt which he had embroidered. The only person at Quiet Light that has one. Although, He didn't tell me that he made one for you. And I haven't seen you in it yet. Joe: He did I almost put it on today. It's just, it's a little big so I [inaudible 0:01:16] it. I need to put on some layer, run it through a two cycles of the dryer. Mark: It would have been so appropriate because, you know, he's wearing his shirt in this interview and you've been wearing your shirt in, and he's getting, make one for me though of course. Joe: He should. You're the founder of Quiet Light Brokerage. Mark: Absolutely. Joe: You should have like a logo on the back of your office chair that says Quiet Light Brokerage, what's wrong with you? Mark: I thought about it but. Most of my office is really a mess. If you seeing this on video and we'll talk about this one a bit. My office is usually a mess. It's all about angles, right? My angles a little bit of center today because I don't want to show you the rest of my office. So, yeah. But this actual episode is going to be great for a video. If you're listening in your car, if you're listening on the podcast, you'll still get a lot of value out of it. But I'd recommend at some point checking out the Youtube channel. We are separating our channels, so we will have a new channel, just for the podcast episodes. And this episode will, going to kick that off. So make sure you'll go there and you subscribe. And the reason that is a good one to watch on the Youtube channel is because we're reviewing due diligence tools in this episode. We actually go over 27 different due diligence tools. We bring them up on the screen and you can see, we kind of browse around and fumbling around on somebody's sites. As we talk about how you can use this in your due diligence process. Any buyer out there who is looking to acquire a business in the next few years or so, you know due diligence is probably the most important part of that process for you making sure that you're checking under every rock and every hidden area to see is there anything wrong with this business that I need to be aware of. Well Chuck and I go over 27 tools that he has used personally in his past of buying businesses. So we bring real interest in episode from that stand point. He brings a lot of experience in buying and selling businesses for.. Do you know how long he has been doing it? I can't remember off hand. Joe: In 1997 I think. He was self-employed in college, making more in one month the most people make in a year when he was in college. Mark: Right right and then, He and I have been presenting at Pubcon for 7 years. We go over this video a little bit but we've been presenting for 7 years at Pubcon together and people always come to see Chuck and then hopefully I can pick up a couple of the scraps to come off the table when presents. So it's a great presentation on a how to go about buying online businesses. Joe: And just a point out of the obvious remaining, not so obvious. Technically we represent the sellers in what we do. Well we can't help them and help them while unless we also help as many buyers as possible. So it's, many people would think that what you're about to present with Chuck is in contrast to what we do. But we're always about full disclosure, always making sure that buyers are making good investments and so that both they and the sellers are happy to closing table and it's successful transaction down the road as well. Mark: Yeah, absolutely! Again, we going to do represent the sellers, but if our seller's getting sued, 3 or 4 months later that is a pretty bad job on our part. So it's important that both buyer and seller walk away from a deal, happy and when you know that deal. So that's the goal. We get a transaction wins. And part of that process is due diligence. I say, I hate like throw a due diligence. When I first started Quiet Light and I got like, you know, a monster due diligence, I would kind of [inaudible 0:04:31] and be like, Oh man, this is going to be a pain. Now when I see a well thought out due diligence, it's makes me happy because I know that, that buyer is going to be really happy and that deal is gone go through. Because where they're going to really inspect that business thoroughly. Joe: Yeah, well thought, that was important. Not just a massive list but a well thought, that was specific to the business that's being purchased. I've seen blank at due diligence less come through where somebody clearly copied and paste it. But I'm excited about this episode Chucks a really, really smart guy and successful entrepreneur and I think a lot of people would learn some good stuff here. Mark: That's good, very good. Let's get to it. Mark: Hey Chuck, how are you? Chuck: Doing great. How are you Mark? Mark: I'm good. Thanks for joining me on the call. I see you have your nice Quiet Light shirt on. You're the only one at Quiet Light that has that shirt. Chuck: That's because I took the initiative to have it made. Mark: Right. We'll get them for everybody else eventually. Chuck: Actually, I think I bought Joe one. But he didn't want it. Mark: Oh really, I got to start getting on him so he wears it from the Podcast. Chuck: Yeah Mark: Yeah, anyway for this Podcast, if you guys are listening to this in your car, this would be one of the once that I would recommend over going to Youtube and we've set up a new channel on Youtube just for the interviews. We're going to put all our interviews on that channel. I'd recommend looking at that because we're going to review a bunch of due diligence tools. A little bit of background between Chuck and myself. Chuck and I have been presenting at Pubcon. What? 7 years I think? Chuck: Yeah, I think so. Mark: Yeah, a very long time. Chuck invited me to speak within that Pubcon a while ago. We've been doing it ever since we've had all the people join us occasionally, to talk about buying and selling websites. But he and I have been talking about that night. Typically we talk on the sell side and Chuck was talking on the buy side. And the result was that more people are interested in what Chuck had to say than I was ever had to say. So I figured, it would be good to have you on here. Both, so I think we can get to know you a bit better. I'd also review some of the due diligence that you've use in the past in buying online businesses. So let's just do a quick introduction for you as far as your background. What's your background in buying and selling online businesses? Chuck: So, I started my first website back in 1996. Through the few years, made a bunch of money in college just a kind of doing really well. And made more money than you know, than I was living on. So I start looking at doing various investments. So, start looking at real estate, franchises, I was looking at car washes, and a storage facilities, and a Laundromats. And nothing ever, just kind of, really worked for me or really peaked my interest enough. You know like, I dabbled in real estate. But everything just kept kind drawing me back to the internet business. So then, you know, I made a few websites that were successful. But I started thinking about you know, what if I could acquire somebody's company and then just build upon that and stand on somebody else's shoulders, instead of trying to prove out a model myself. You know, use a model that has been proven by somebody else. And then just take all the knowledge I had, and expertise, and grow that. So I start doing really well, and at a certain point I just fell alive, you know presenting at a conference, and kind of just, giving back, and then that's when I reached out to you and I think my initial presentation I gave was with Jason, Quiet Light, we did it at affiliate summit. I don't even know, 8 or 9 years ago. Mark: Yeah, I remember that. I was in the audience for that presentation and then, that was January. I remember specifically because it was really cold at that conference in Las Vegas. The fountains were frozen when we got out of the hotel. I was kind of surprised about that. So it's cool! So yeah, you've been doing this presentation for a long time and I know whenever we do the presentation, when we get to the slide on due diligence, whereas all the phones in the rooms go up to take pictures, because people are really interested to know what's our tools they can use to do due diligence. So we're going to review some of these tools here, as well as talk about some of the principles, buyers might want to apply when you're doing your due diligence. As always, we'll just throw out the blanket; cover your tails sort of a disclaimer here. Due diligence is ultimately a buyer's responsibility. Make sure that you're doing it, make sure that you are bringing in professionals. What we're going to do is were going to give some advices to things that we've seen work, but by all means, this is not complete when you're talking about due diligence. Wherein you need to apply a complete process to the business that you are looking at. So I'm going to share my screen here and open this up, and I'm just going to share the full screen, and hopefully on my [inaudible 0:08:56] of so that people don't get those. But can you see that chart does that come up for you? Chuck: Yeah. Mark: Alright. Good, good. So here we go, where going to just get started right away with this list of tools and I'll be browsing to the website as you talk about the individual ones. The first one that we're going to talk about is Centurica and they're full service due diligence firm. They are the only one of that sort that we have on this list. So why don't you talk a little bit about Centurica, what they do and why they made this list. Chuck: Sure, So Chris Yates is the owner of Centurica, they've been around for quite a while and Chris runs a buying and selling website conference called and Rhodium. Rhodium Weekend I think is kind of, the official name. I ran into Chris way back when I started to look at buying and selling businesses. he was the first person.. I'm always looking for knowledge where I look into learn more. So doing some searches and came across his conference and went to it. Kind of on a whim, because there was no information about the conference because that was the first one that they've had. So it was like, trying to figure out and I thought well, for the money, maybe I'll pick up something and if not, it's not a total lost because you know, I'm just come and go to Vegas to hang out. You know Chris is really a smart guy and I ended up I think I was probably the first one we, to get into his master mind group. So I'm going to master mind group with Chris and a bunch of other entrepreneurs and he does this great due diligence product were he just kind of takes it over from you. Will do like a full blown due diligence review on a business that you're going to acquire and I would never say that you should handle fully the [inaudible 0:10:33] somebody else do the due diligence. But you should allow, if you're going to hire somebody, do it in parallel with them. So that way you're just getting, you know, a second, third set of eyes on a due diligence and on the business that you're looking to acquire. So they offer various levels and, so it looks like they've got something from 59 dollars right there and all the way up to, I think a 5,000 dollar package. That's kind of like a suit to nuts version. Mark: Yeah and just look at the website; they have a whole team of people here that are associated with them. A lot of these people, you and I know, we know them through Rhodium Weekend and through that master mind group as well. These are some really smart guys, good guys, to be able to just get on the phone with and get their feedback. In fact, I'm seeing n a few guys here, Mike Nunez, he has been on a Podcast with us before and a super smart guy. Well, these guys are [inaudible 0:11:24] really good contact as well. These are people that you can arrange calls with and bounce my ideas of. The amount of money, 5,000 dollars, some people might [inaudible 0:11:35] sort of price tag, but what do you think? Do you think that's worth spending that much money on due diligence support? Chuck: Yeah I mean, with Quiet Light, we're generally not dealing with the lower end deals, right? We're generally dealing with mid to high six figures, mid to low seven figure deals, so you know, five grand and that's their highest package, right? They got stuff that's cheaper, but how could you go wrong, you know, spending.. If you're on a million dollar deal, what's five grand, is what? Half a percent? I think it's probably money well spent. Mark: Yeah, absolutely I agree. The only assets that you put an end, this is, that whenever you are hiring somebody on the outside to potentially look for problems, understand that, what they're going to do is they're going to find problems because that's what you're hiring them to do, and they should do that. So this is not a criticism or some trick or by any means or attorney that's looking up for liability issues. But as the buyer, understand that you need to take that information, process it, through a business decision that you're making. Any sort of due diligence tool? I knew the ones that we offer here, that's the way that you should be going about using that information, that fits into the larger scheme. Alright, let's move on, Centurica is a good service. If anyone wants an introduction pres, it's either Chuck or I can provide an introduction pres as well. The next two are related obviously, Google.com and Google Trends, everybody knows what Google is, I'm sure most know what Google Trends are. How would you use each of these sites in a due diligence process? Chuck: Sure! So with Google, right? I mean, it's just a matter of Googling things either about the business, about the person, if you're buying the business, Google the terms around the business, and look for red flags, right? Look for if they've got one star review, average one star review, maybe that tells you something about the business. You know, look for complaints, things that are negative about the business, right? It's kind of one of those, you'll catch all due diligence place where you just, kind of sorting through all of the information that you can find on a given business and/or a person. Never just research the business, always research the person who is selling the business as well because, you could find out a lot of stuff and make sure that you're avoiding, potentially avoid some of the pitfalls, if somebody has done some sketchy stuff in the past, and find that out. Mark: Yeah, absolutely. You can learn a lot about their background as well, and all you have to do is search for all of the places that I have written for, come up, but years ago, I was involved in a lawsuit in those couple of pages. And so, anyone that was doing research on me, I would often get those sort of questions, "What happened then?" everything was fine. I didn't mind the questions, but people that were being smart and doing due diligence would ask about that. Chuck: And don't just look at the first page of Google. Look at the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, right? Because anybody can hire a reputation management company that will push some of those negative reviews, you know, to the 2nd or 3rd page. But they'll be there generally, still, just maybe a little lower. Mark: Right, Now if anyone wonders and are looking at the screen, I did not play hockey. Even though I'm from Minnesota I'm not a hockey player. There's a couple of them, that's out there that have gotten their name out there. Google trends, what search term I put in there? Chuck: Yeah so type in Paleo Recipe, or Paleo Diet I mean, because Paleo is a little different. So, if you look at the screen. Mark: You changed the date range? Chuck: Yes I changed the date range. That's, in January, you see that giant spike. Because that's when everybody is getting into a diet mode. Check that out even further. Mark: So we're looking right now. Let's set 2004 to present. So we'll do the entire history in Google Trends. There we go. Chuck: Sure, so you know, if you're looking to buying a business, and you're seeing.. Well use Google Trends to figure out what the trends are. Here you'll see is like a giant up peak that just kind of went up, and then all of a sudden it just kind of, trail off, and you're going to find things like this. Then you'll also notice that there is like ups and downs, like inter year, so that would be like the seasonally of the business, right? So just because you see, like this one giant peak, which correlates with January, and then you know, throughout the rest of the year it drops until December where December is at it's low, around Christmas time then it spikes immediately back up. So you're going to look for not only seasonality but you can look for long term trends. And when you're looking at businesses, think about whether the business is a trendy business first, it's an evergreen business. So, diet in general is a trendy business. If you look almost any diet, you'll see that there's a, it goes up, up , up, up and all of a sudden it tails off, right? There's something made it go up, usually it got unpopular, and then it'll trend off. I personally, one of the businesses that I bought was a Paleo website, and I managed to buy it exactly at the peak market, and then.. Mark: Right about there right? Right around January of 2013, early 2013. Chuck: Yup, definitely it's like, it was going up, up, and up, I'm like, great! Then it went down, down, down, and it was less great. So, luckily, we were able to so a little bit of magic and kind of keep the revenue going by trying to grow the business but it's another story. Mark: Something else that you can do with this, so as many people know, I own CatholicSingles, and the turn chart out for CatholicSingles doesn't look that great, when you look at it. Something I've learned from this chart from a few other places is, if you think that you're buying a website that gets lots of natural search traffic, be careful to make sure that it's not branded search traffic. So what's happening here is, the previous owner was losing out to a competitor who was beating him in a brand search, and so, the site still gets lots of natural search traffic to a keyword that still has a lot of relevance. But he lost a lot of brand relevance as well. So you can, if it's a large enough property you can often pick up on brands trends and what are not, you're going to have to compete on that [inaudible 0:17:34] as well. You can type in competing services and see what their trend is overtime as well. And you can actually compare the two together. So you can see how competition is playing along with. Maybe what you're looking at acquiring. Chuck: And then if you scroll down, you can do it by region as well. So what are the countries that has something popular. So maybe it was a US based company, and you see "Hey look! It's doing well in Canada and South America" or I guess none of that case was in South America, but Australia, and I think it was Mexico maybe. So maybe you expand into some of those other countries. Mark: Right, right. Exactly. Yeah Google Trends has some good date out there, I recommend again putting in your, whatever, competitors you know of, and comparing the traffic and the trends for the competitors and get the sense for, how those are working together. Chuck: And one additional point would be, Google trends is the search volume of a specific keyword, so it's not some magic formula, it's how many people are searching for something. So sometimes, people search, the way they search for things changes overtime, so you just want to, kind of remember that. That just because, you know. People might have been searching for, I don't know, Blue Widgets but now they're calling it, instead of Blue Widgets, they're calling it Blue Fuzzies, right? So it doesn't always mean that the actual market is declining at it. Sometimes it can just be a change in the way people are searching. Mark: Yeah, I think an example, that would be internet marketing has pushed toward in digital marketing. And so you see, the phrase you use to refer to something, is slightly different overtime. So, that's a good point. Now let's move off this chart because it's sort of depressing. State business websites, this is one that I haven't really seeing people a whole lot of, but it's a really good idea to use state business websites. Chuck: Yeah, I mean it's just the basic of going to whatever state the company is in, doing a search for the business, finding out who the owners are, and if there's any kind of red flags that maybe appear on that, just some basic due diligence there. Mark: Yeah, that one's not coming up here, but when you do the search, what will happen is, you'll see the records with the state, whether or not if filed in good standing, any other possible red flags that would come up. It's really just checking their box, making sure that everything is on the up and up with that business search. Maybe we can get back to this, if that comes up again. BuiltWith is a really cool tool and it shows all the technologies that a website was built with, right? Chuck: Yeap! Absolutey! So if you want to look at, like the technologies that go.. Is your internet out? Mark: No, I just typed it in wrong. Chuck: I guess your internet wouldn't be out, considering we're.. Mark: Right, right. So we could take a look to see what Quiet Light Brokerage is built on. And you can see that we have Googled conversion tracking, you can you see the whole technology stack and all the services that are used. When this might be useful as if you're looking at the P&L and you don't see a subscriptions but you would see here Drip. And you know that Drip is a subscription based service maybe that's not their P&L. That would be something to catch and maybe ask them about to find out what's going on there. Maybe they just start using [inaudible 0:20:47]the website. Chuck: Absolutely! And you know, one of the things you want to do as part of getting ready to acquire a site is make sure that you have the people and place to take over any kind of service that you need in advance. Right, so, if you have no idea how to use Drip and you're taking it in purchase in your company, maybe you need to has somebody in place who does know how to use it or request a standard operating procedure so that you can learn how to use it. So I would definitely have a list of like all of the kind of aspects of the business that you're not proficient at. And make sure that you have people in place that can help you with that [inaudible 0:21:26] running when you do take over the business. Mark: You know something that, speaking of Drips, I talked to Rob who sold Drip to Leadpages a few years ago, and he talked to me about how Leadpages was completely ready and able to switch over to a new website surely after they closed. They were making plans and building out technology as they were going through due diligence so that they can hit the ground, running right away. Something that might you want to do as you're going through a website's technology stack is take a look at what services are you using. If you are going to the Quiet Light website you'll notice that we have Hotjar, for example. Now I haven't tracked anything with Hotjar on the website in a while. We use it for surveys once in a while, but this would be a service for, maybe those report that you want to ask for during due diligence. Maybe some heat mapping that would just be useful information for you to be able to see and as you're making plans. Or OptinMonster, asked, have you run these campaigns before? What was the conversion rate like on these campaigns? And you can start getting really prepared as you're doing your due diligence to make that transition. Of course some sellers may not be eager to share some of that information with you, so go about that with some level of sensitivity understanding that they might be ready to open up all the books to you, but knowing what's there can help you request different reports. And Chuck you said something before in one of your presentations, probably multiple presentations and that was ask questions. Ask lots and lots of questions. Chuck: Yup, absolutely. I always say ask, ask, ask, and even ask questions you know the answers to. I feel like that's like some kind of weird tactic that people do. But they ask questions regardless of whether you know the answer because you almost want to get a seller to lie to you, because then you know how trust worthy they are right? If somebody's going to lie to you about something, it's a red flag. So, I've seen a lot of people that will ask the same questions in multiple ways. You don't want to be annoying right? Like, don't ask stupid questions but definitely ask. I shouldn't say, you don't want to ask stupid question because almost no question's stupid right? But we all understand there are all stupid questions that you shouldn't ask, that's just, are irrelevant. But don't feel like, if it's relevant to you then it's not a stupid question. So, ask everything. Because the time to ask is before you buy it. Right? You don't want to have a bunch of questions after you've inked the check. So, ask early and then ask often. Mark: Then the other thing too is you can get more callers on a particular answer. I know when I talk to some sellers and ask them why are you selling? They'll give me an answer one day and had talked to them another day and they give me s slightly different answer. And it's not that they're lying. The reasons are complex. There's more than one reason going on there and you gain caller, you gain more information about what's really going on behind the sale. By asking the same question, and looking at, in different formats, I know when you started to do video interviews or recording interviews of some of our clients and part of the reason for that is because people talk about questions differently then they might write them out. So this could ask a lot of those questions. Chuck: Yeah, absolutely! Archive.org. Mark: This is a great one. So if you're doing some due dilligence there's a whole industry people who just buy expired domains, stir a new content on it and then run with the site. Some of the amazing firm like [inaudible 0:24:38]some of them are buying like big sites, or what used to be a big site and for whatever reason, site's no longer so, this will give you an idea like in 2008. What was the site look like? Was it a brokerage site or not back then, you know. It's not always a bad thing but if it was something spamy back then, It might still have some problems moving forward. So it's also good just to see if you had some ideas of you wanted to try this or try that. And getting an idea for some of the things they've tried in their past or looking at previous screenshots of what the site was like one, two, three, four years ago? Mark: Yeah, I think one of the big challenges that you always have as a buyer and.. Sellers as well have this issue, right. Sellers know their business intimately because they've lived with it for so many years. As a buyer, you're coming in and trying to compress knowledge that they've gain over the course of sometimes 20 years now. And to a decision that you have to make within or week or two. Going back in the scene, what the history of the site was, just kind of, again it adds color, it adds more information into what does this person done in the past for the business. Like you said maybe we can see some things that they tried and you can ask them about that, if you're looking at the Quiet Light site, yeah, you might see that we sold some domains in the past. And if there's someone looking to buy us they could ask a question on that, you know, why don't you sell domains anymore? And we could go into that whole discussion. Chuck: Something else to look for is to look for gaps in the years so you know, you can put something on your website, right? And your like, your a [inaudible 0:26:14]telling a way back machine not to cross your site anymore. So if there's like a three year gap, why is that gap? Most legitimate sites aren't blocking the way back machine. From calling their site, so you know, that might raise a red flag and might be something you want to dive in on a little deeper. Mark: Awesome, alright let's move on at Trademarkia.com. Chuck: Yeah, you know it's a, if you're, if they told you to have a trade mark, search for it, figure it out. If they have told you they don't have a trade mark, search for it. See if somebody else has a trade mark right? Make sure that they're not infringing on somebody else's.. What's the word I'm looking for.. Somebody else's IP. You don't want to buy a business if they're infringing on other people's stuff. Mark: Yeah, and this can also be a very useful in search results if you're advertising on Google and you have competitors that are stepping all over that brand search. If you get that trade mark and you have the ability to get a trade mark you can keep all of those guys off, and brand is usually a very cheap way. But if you have competitors branding against it, that's [inaudible 0:27:16] your IP, so, searching for that trade mark is a useful thing to do. Alright, moving to the next set of tools and these tools here seem to be more of, search competitive intelligence and taking look at a site's search profile and I should just say probably maybe SEM. All [inaudible 0:27:33] right? Because this still include adwords as well? Chuck: Yeap, yeap! So organic and paid, my likes spy for a lot. It's a.. You can look at people's history of what kind of ad campaigns they did. As so, if somebody says "Oh we've only ever run one ads set and haven't done much testing" and then you look back at, and shows you. Well actually they ran a hundred different variations of this ad. Cross, you know 5 years and blah blah. So you will able to see a.. Verify some of the information they said. You can also check and it will show you, like literally shows you, what paid ads they ran. And like detects in them. So if you think, "Oh I wonder if they try this", so you're going to look back and see what sorts of ads they've run. It's kind of interesting, you can also use this right here, like you see their competitor. So that'll show you overlap, so if you know some of, some competitors, you'll be able to see like what keywords they have overlapping using this venn diagrams. It's some really cool stuff and then you can look for opportunity, for words that they're going after, that your knots. They also have they a tool in here somewhere that will allow you to look at specific keywords over time and then it puts it over a timeline and has the Google updates. So you can see like, ok they had this key word was, you know, rank number 1111, and then drops off to like number 7, and [inaudible 0:28:57] Google get an update right when this happen so you can potentially know why they dropped off, it's because, well, Google did this update. So seeing what people are using like a private blog now, where to get a bunch of links and it's like doing really, really well then everything drops off a cliff. Because of Google did an update and it affect it, or, the reverse is true where they went from having nothing to all off a sudden number 1 rankings, just like overnight. And you can see, okay, well nobody just all send this from zero to number 1 ranking for 20 different keyword terms so then you know, Well, they must have done something to have that spike and then you can dive into what they're using like, blog that works for paid links or whatever. Mark: Yeah, any sort of quick changes in these results are going to be something to watch out for. So that's over all a good tool. And a lot of these tools out here, Moz, Open Site Explorer, Semrush, Magestic, AAtraps, I personaly like AAtraps. These are all really good tools, using in combination. It's going to give you a sense for how the data all adds up. Understand that when you're looking at data, in any of these tools, they have to use third parties to estimate what this is, for example, they're estimating for Quiet Light Brokerage, where estimated adwords budget is 3,000 bucks. Actually not too far off from that, but it's not accurate. Just understand that these are useful for trends, these are useful for getting another point of data, nothing's going to replace first hand tracking, it should be Google and Linux, or whatever tool people are using to analyze something. But you can use all these external tools in combination as well to try complete picture of what a website's doing and how it's ranking. Chuck: It's a bit [inaudible 0:30:45] That was I think only Google adwords, so if not taking your account, pay traffic, whether it's Facebook or other things. Right? Mark: Yep, yep! Absolutely that's right! Let's move on to a.. You like Spy for the best from all of these? Chuck: They are all kind of different. So there's like different reasons to use different ones, right? Some are for keyword research, some have like keyword difficulty tools, so part of due diligence isn't just looking at what the site has done, but where you can go with it. So I like to use a couple of them to do keyword research. See where their gaps are, you know, opportunity for me to grow the business. They're all kind of hit, different things to different things well. So I don't have one favorite. I do like SpyFu, I like Moz in the past, [inaudible 0:31:31], Majestic. And then on that list, we kind of didn't point it which I'm guessing maybe you thought I put in a wrong spot, but the alexa.com won. I haven't actually used this yet, but it's apparently a new tool that they rolled out. It's a competitor to all these other ones, Moz and Majestic. So they're doing a paid tool just like all these other guys. So, I haven't really dove into it yet, but it'll be interesting to maybe see how their data looks. Mark: Yeah, I actually just saw this the other day. And was intrigued by it. I haven't dug into this at all. But you would imagine that Alexa's by Amazon. You would imagine that they have some pretty good access to tools to be able estimate this information, with some level of accuracy. Chuck: And you know they've been around, since when, like early 2000 or earlier. So they've been crawling off these sites. So who knows what kind of information they've stored. I see [inaudible 0:32:34] has really good info going pretty far back. Mark: yeah, I know you're right on that. I think actually Alexa may have been the first competitive intelligence tool. That try to rank websites. Maybe there was somebody else before that. But they were the first one's who really gain attraction. Or that for a long time, everybody I knew had their Alexa bar. Up in their browser and you can see what, aside Alexa ranking was along with its paid rank. Right every marketer back in early 2010 and those two things, up in their tool bars. Chuck: It's fine, so I went to the site yet the other day, just checking it out and looking for their little site ranking. I could find it anywhere, so I'm not sure if they still have it or not. Mark: Yeah, I don't know. I try to look that up recently as well and I wasn't able to find it. I was behind actually this pay wall which is how I came across [inaudible 0:33:24] they are now offering this. Chuck: Yeah, yeah. It didn't, for a long time, like, right Google paid rank and the Alexa ranking have been dead like nobody uses those as a real stat anymore . But I just wanted to check it out. Mark: Yeah, yeah I know it's always interesting stuff. Alright let's move on to page 2 here. We're going to get into 3 tools here. [inaudible 0:33:46], deepcrawl.com and Copyscape. What do these tools do? Chuck: Yeah, The first two are pretty similar to each other. And what they do is you can plug in a domain name that it will crawl the entire site and it will look for all kinds of things. Like errors or not errors. Right, so it can show you just by crawling to the site. It will crawl every single link on the site from every single page. So it shows you like if there's dead links so if there are stuff that's going for like 404 pages, no errors, 500 errors, it will show you the redirects. So what I've used it for in the past is the one finding those dead pages or the 404 errors and then also finding the redirects and sometimes you'll see like stuff gets layered, where it will be redirected to this page, which layer's was then redirected to this page, which layer's then redirected to this page. And ultimately, what should you be doing is just going back and linking from the first page to the last page. And not using all of these bounces because with each bounce you have the a, potentially you're losing some of that authority has being passed through. Mark: Yeah, and there are the futuristic will do an on-site SEO analysis for even, one that I've used in the past that all definitely throw a, [inaudible 0:35:01] to be Orange Fox, Jacob Hagberg, has done some reports from Quiet Light Brokerage. and a lot of these tools do is, what these services work, will do, they just to analyze in a condensed manner. Because they look for opportunities and they also look for potential issue. Like you're saying, if there's tons of redirects in there, that's a problem, you are losing out an authority on those pages. 10 pages , 404, broken images. Images without all tags, accessibility issues. These are all things that you want to be looking for. Not necessarily as like major red flags but you know, a buyer beware, but also as opportunities that if you start to fix and clean these things up, there's going to be a natural lift in rankings on its long tale keywords that maybe you're on page 10 to 20 right now for, maybe that will bump you up to the first 10 results . So wait for you to just grow some opportunity. When you're looking at these 3 tools Chuck.. Chuck: The first two are very similar, right? Screaming Frog, is one that you have on your own computer, and then it use your internet connection to then crawl the site. DeepCrawl, they are running it from their servers, the Screaming Frog is relatively cheap. I forget the amount but it's hundred to 200 bucks a year. The DeepCrawl one is fairly pricey so, I would always recommend this Screaming Frog but the other one is a good service as well. Just cost a bit more. It's a 150 pounds a year. Mark: Right. They do have a free version? I've used the free version to be honest it's worth just upgrading to a paid version. Free version will give you just a flavor of what they can do. But if you really want to dig deep and really figure things out. Yeah, again, here's a 500 URL limit, most websites are going to blow through that 500 URLs because you have all their images, you have everything else connected with an individual page, so you'll go through that 500 pretty quickly. Copyscape is a bit different from these two though. Chuck: Yeah, it's different. I threw it, kind of witness just because it's one of those things, where again, you're looking for problems, so you type in your domain and It'll give you list of you know, places that content made and stolen from. So kind of, similar, but different. Mark: Right. This can be useful to see if you have people that are maybe trying' just scrape your pages entirely or if the page you're looking at for some reason is built on a shakey ground. This was something that was used a lot more probably, I don't know, 5, just 7 years ago. I know Copyscape has a really big issue on a really big useful tool for duplicate content issues. A lot of that is going away now. But I would imagine you would find copies of content that somebody's publishing their blog contents, say, on Medium or LinkedIn. I imagine this would probably pick up on that. Chuck: Yeah. I believe so. And you know when we talk about the duplicate content issue, where talking about like, right for organic search but there's also the duplicate content issue where, "Hey everything on this website was stolen from somewhere else and you're going to get sued because you stole our base content.", Right so, I would be checking to make sure that people aren't stealing other people's content. You know, so I think that's a good part of due diligence. Mark: Yeah, absolutely! Alright Public WWW. This is a tool I have not heard of. Chuck: Yeah, that's a great tool. It kind of isn't a vain, of like, a Google right? But what's cool about it is instead of like.. If I want to search for something on Google. Google looks at what is this plate on the page meaning. If I search for Chuck it's looking for.. If somebody would look at a web page and see the word Chuck on it, then it might come up, right? But with this website, it's actually looking at the source code. So if somebody had a comment that was Chuck, it would potentially come up there. So, anywhere from the word Chuck, right? It's more for if you want to look a analytics code, or if you want to find somebody's affiliate ID. So if somebody's says, "Hey, I'm just running AdSense on this site, and I don't have it anywhere else.", So we could took.. Put in the AdSense number, and it will show you all the sites that are using that same AdSense ID on their website, right? So you can look for, maybe they're doing some competing stuff, maybe they just, you know, they're driving more income through the AdSense, but having a multiple sites vs the one. And it's not complete, right? There's, it's only as much as they crawl so they're only going to have as much data of the websites they crawl. But you can definitely find some stuff. You can also use a little tip here, would be.. Let's say you have an affiliate product your promoting, right? And you're making some money off of that, and say, you found a new product you want to promote and it makes 10 times the amount of money for each one you sell and you know that like, "Oh! This product, if I switch it to this one, I'm going to make 10X." Or you could look for everybody who is promoting this old product, and then you're going to try to acquire those sites, and switch them to the new affiliate product and 10X the revenue. A lot of different things you can do with that. Mark: I've heard some of people ask about that, specifically with affiliate sites. You know, "How do I know that this is all coming from the site that I'm buying.", and so that would be one tool that you could use. The other thing I could see this being useful for is if you have a tool for it. This would be a pretty rare case, but if you're buying a business as a tool, that's using on outside websites. WordPress plugins site, WordPress themes site, or any other tool like that, you could start to get some ideas as for the installation volume. Using the tool like this. Alright, SpyOnWeb.com. Chuck: So similar right it's a looking for people's AdSense IDs and things like that. It's not as complete, with the other one you could search for a lot more different types of things. But still a useful tool. Mark: Right, it gives you some machine information as for our tools also sharing this IP address, DNS server. So again, not [inaudible 0:40:53] information here, but just acquiring [inaudible 0:40:56] this. We have our [inaudible 0:40:58]. So If you want to find out what the [inaudible 0:41:02] rank is, just go to SpyOnWeb and you could also see the page rank which is saying Quiet Light Brokerage just a like a question mark for page ranks. So that would be an information. That would have scared me about a 6 or 7 years ago. Alright, DomainIQ. Chuck: Yup, so DomainIQ and the other two that were listed. This are for finding out information about a domain name. So when was it registered, how many times has the DNS changed, has the ownership changed recently, what other domains are on the same server, or same IP block or same IP address, so if you know, if you're buying something from somebody, and they say it's the only site they have and then you look start looking up and down the IP range or looking on the server or the same IP and you see there's other domain names that are the same thing and are not disclosing it you, you know, that's potentially going to be an issue. You can look up who is the owner, so if it's like similar registration name or similar email address used to register the domain, it will show you all of the domains they own. That are using that registration information. These are all for the most part paid services. So if you want to get, like the good data, you got to pay for it. But they do give you a basic level of information for free. Mark: Right. I don't think anybody has to use all these tools. You pick 1 or 2 out of each of these categories that you want to use. The only one that I would recommend maybe use in multiples one would be in this search intelligence the SpyFu, Moz, and SEMrush. I think it might be worthwhile having upwards of three maybe four depending on how lights would turns out those services. Because like you said they all do slightly different things. Chuck: It's a matter of like what they've indexed right? So they each have their own crawlers, and none of them are going to crawl exactly the same subset of the internet. So, it's just, you're going to find different things while using different ones. Mark: Right, and they all have different levels of accuracy you could see here DomainIQ is [inaudible 0:43:04] to be higher than the last one. And also, few other bits of information that I would say are incorrect but again you use these points of data… Chuck: That was 5,000 dollars? The appraisal value? Mark: That was [inaudible 0:43:17] it's less than 500 dollars. And we have more than 24 backlinks, but again, all these tools are to be used in combination with each other to put together a large picture. Obviously a tool like Google Analytics or [inaudible 0:43:31] you'll going to want to use that first. And then, these tools are been used to fill in the gaps. Chuck: And also like know what a tool is good at, so like last one, you're not going to use that tool for the appraised value right? Like, that's nonsense. But if you scroll up, scroll up a little bit. If you click on, click on the ownership record in the blue, the blue button is there. Let's see if we'll.. Mark: We got gears turning here.. There we go Chuck: Okay so just search who the owner is, when is the last time you updated, when it expires, the age of it, right. So you've owned it for just about almost 11 years, you're using Cloudflare, here's the "who is" info…. Mark: It's kind of a bad corporation name, I got to update that. Chuck: Well there you go. And go back one more time on it, I'll click on one more thing… Mark: All these tools take too long to load up. Let's move on, because this one's getting a little bit longer. Let's get it on to a Bannedcheck.com. Chuck: Yeah, so this one is a, and it's not 100% right. But you can type in AdSense account and I'll tell you if the AdSense account has been banned. Again, not 100%, but if it's says it's banned, that's probably a good indication. I'm sorry not the AdSense account number but the actual domain name. Right so, if somebody says, "Oh! I switched monetization methods, because I didn't like AdSense and I was making a bunch more money with this." Well, maybe that's not the case, maybe it's that they got banned. So, this is a good one. They can tell you whether they've been, not a 100% right. But if it's says that they've been band, then they've probably have been, right? Mark: Good news with this, I'm making money with Quiet Light Brokerage because it came back and it says that it's not banned for Google AdSense. Chuck: I wonder how that helps with our value of the 500 dollars. Mark: Hopefully, this is a little bit, so all you buyers that are looking to buy a business, we're going to require that you click on an Adsense ad. Because I think that's completely [inaudible 0:45:16] with our terms of service. Mark: socialmention.com. Chuck: Yeah, so just you know, you type in various things here and it will just tell you where it's being mention as far as social goes. So just a good tool for doing some basic due diligence. Mark: Yeah, let's repeat, useful to do, using combination with a Google trends to be able to see. Google Trends is measuring the data on Google itself. Looking at how the different social media networks are also processing the data. It's going to have a different look than just what Google has. On that note, I would say BuzzSumo, which is not on your list. It's another tool that I would recommend adding and it's a page where they do the free option but you can take a look to see what content has done really well on a particular domain name. As well as what content in that specific niche also does well. So you can really got a sense for how popular [inaudible 0:46:15] and what's getting shared and what's not. Well for then Google but also within the social media. It seems fantastic. Chuck: This one definitely should've been on my list then I'm not sure why it wasn't but I actually like this one a lot better. Mark: Will add this to the list. For people who want to download it. Last one it would be just going direct to the source of Facebook LinkedIn, Twitter, etc., etc. Almost every websites these days has presence on all the social media networks, visit their pages I assume that's kind of a lesson there. Chuck: Yeah and again, with like a LinkedIn, right? Looking at the person's profile looking how many connections they have. Are they in a niche where they should have 500 LinkedIn connections and they've only got 3, Maybe that tells you something, right? Why are they connected with all of these hackers or whatever, right? It's just a matter of again, researching the people and not just the business. So I think it's a good tool for researching people. Mark: Awesome, right. So that's a lot of tools that we just went over. Let's talk just a some couple of lessons, and we're running pretty long on this Podcast. So, we'll talk just a couple lessons about due diligence. I'm going to turn off the screen sharing here and talk about couple lessons about due diligence. What would you say for somebody who's going about due diligence the first time? What couple of lessons would you, or principles, should they really use in their due diligence efforts. Chuck: So I think one of the biggest things, is first in for most you don't know what you don't know. right, so having people to help advice you on what to search for and what to look for can be critical. So don't just think you know everything! Because none of us know everything especially when it comes to different tricks and tactics people can employ to inflate the numbers in what they're doing. What else, do you have any idea you would suggest? Mark: I would, and so on that note, obviously bringing people like an attorney, bringing an accountant, as I said before that be careful when you do so because they are being brought in with their specific purpose in mind, that are being brought in to look for liabilities, for being brought in to look for problems, and you are the business owner trying to make a business decision. Your accountant that's trying to make an account decision. Your lawyers try to make in legal decision. And so, you have to take their advice and put it into a broader framework business . It's a good business choice for you. You use their bits of data as [inaudible 0:48:41]data. And create a whole picture with that. The other thing that you said, where you cover this one's ask, ask, ask. Don't be afraid to ask for questions and then the third thing that I would recommend is keep good records of what you have looked at. And I'm working through the due diligence for the client, if a buyer comes back and ask for the same documents that they may have already received earlier on. Extremely annoying for a seller who doesn't understand why they even needed it in the first place. And a lot of sellers get skeptical buyers. They think this person isn't really serious about it. they're just looking fishing for information and if you end up passing the same documents 3 or 4 times, even twice. It start to grow those seeds of doubt and to bigger than just seeds and it cause a lot of problems really later on. So be organized in your due diligence just as you want your seller to be organized. Even your documentation. So that you'd know what you have and work off a check list, where be the last thing that I would ask. But don't be afraid to add to that check list as you go through. Chuck: Sure and something else I would add, kind of similar, not a little different, is with the seller. They're interested in knowing that you're going to do well with their business and whether they realize it or not, the questions you ask them are important to them. Almost always. So if you're not asking good questions, they're going to think that you're not serious or that you're not going to do well with the business and we often see that buyers, or sellers won't always sell to the person who offers the most money often times they're selling to the person they think who's going to do best with their business or somebody that they like. I see it time and time again. Recently I had a nice 7 figure deal, I was working with and every time I get off a call, you know, I do a wrap up call with the seller, "Okay, what do you think? and he went like, "Well that person didn't ask any good questions like, I don't want to sell my business to them.", So make sure that you're doing some due diligence upfront, you're looking into these things and you have good questions that you're asking that are relevant to the business. Mark: Yeah, absolutely! Do not research ahead of time, not wasting your seller's time on the conference call is important. A lot of good sellers, when they go to sell a business, within that first week, they're going to do half of dozen to a dozen conference calls and it's exhausting to do. So if they get into a call and somebody asks, ask them question that was covered right up front. There's a good place to ask questions that have never been answered, and there's obviously you haven't done your homework, sort of questions. So do have basic homework ahead of time so that people know about, that you've put in that upfront research. One thing I'll add at that fellows, is if there's something that you're not familiar with, ask them about it and don't be afraid about that. And at the end of the day, as a buyer you want to protect your money, but make sure you're not making a bad investment so, don't be afraid to ask those questions. If you ever have questions about, "Can I discuss this or what do you think?" Use the broker. We're here to advice with the buyer and the seller through that process, we want to see a good deal done for our client. Chuck: Absolutely! Mark: Alright, this has been really long, but I think, good information so, Chuck thanks so much for coming on and maybe down the road, we'll do another one of these. Chuck: Sounds good. I appreciate it! Mark: Cool, thanks! Chuck: Alright, thanks everybody! Links and Resources: Centurica offers a full blown due diligence services. Google Google Trends Builtwith Archive Trademarkia.com SEM tools: Spyfu moz majestic alexa semrush Website crawling tools: screamingfrog deepcrawl orangefox copyscape Publicwww is a source code search engine Spyonweb for looking for peoples adsense tools. DomainIQ provide information for domain pages Bannedcheck.com Social media: Linkedin Buzzsumo fantastic sm network tool.

Today's Flash Back Friday comes from Episode 163, originally published in August 2014. Brian Carter is the Founder of the Brian Carter Group. He joins the show to discuss how Facebook can revolutionize an organization if they use it effectively.  Brian Carter is respected as one of the elite internet marketing experts in the world. His hands-on business experience, cutting edge insights, background in improv and stand up comedy culminate in a speaker and trainer who leaves every audience not only entertained, but armed with powerful strategies and tactics. Brian is co-author of the bestselling book Facebook Marketing, and author of the forthcoming book, The Like Economy. He also has authored an ebook called How To Get More Fans On Facebook. Brian has 12 years experience with Google, Twitter and Facebook marketing, both as a consultant and marketing agency director. He has trained and managed Gen X and Gen Y employees, in addition to the more than 5,000 students of his FanReach Facebook marketing online course. Brian develops strategies and builds search visibility and social marketing fanbases for companies of all sizes, including well known entities such as Universal Studios, The U.S. Army, Hardee's and Carl's Jr. He is quoted in the book Twitter Marketing For Dummies and has been quoted and profiled by Information Week, U.S. News & World Report, The Wall Street Journal, and Entrepreneur Magazine. Brian writes for two of the most popular marketing blogs, Search Engine Journal and AllFacebook with a combined readership of over 400,000. He has more than 30,000 Twitter followers and an overall reach of more than 50,000 fans through Facebook, LinkedIn, and his other social marketing channels. A speaker and trainer for top marketing conferences such as SEOmoz, SMX, Pubcon, The AllFacebook Expo, Socialize, The South Carolina Society of Association Executives and The American Marketing Association to name a few. Brian is a seasoned expert and most entertaining presenter in Internet marketing. Website: www.BrianCarterGroup.com

Today's guest has Consulted for Golden State Warriors... Aggregated 120 Billion Impressions on Facebook for a massive case study…  AND Once ran a 70 mile marathon. Dennis Yu is the Chief Technology Officer of BlitzMetrics, a digital marketing company which partners with schools to train young adults. Dennis's program centers around mentorship, helping students grow their expertise to manage social campaigns for enterprise clients like The Golden State Warriors, Nike, and Rosetta Stone. He's an internationally recognized lecturer in Facebook Marketing and has spoken in 17 countries, spanning 5 continents, including keynotes at L2E, PubCon, Conversion Conference, and Marketo Summit.

This week we are bringing you an online story that as far as we know hasn't been told, and we think it's a good one. If you enjoyed last weeks episode on building faster websites [https://www.targetinternet.com/the-digital-marketing-podcast-episode-160-build-fast-websites/] this week's interviewee will be a familiar voice. When we caught up with Jon Henshaw, Raven Tools Co-founder, Ciaran couldn't help but ask Jon a whole heap of questions about Raven Tools and how it came into being. What followed was a fascinating insight into Jon's journey as an entrepreneur, from releasing a very early and free SEO tool over ten years ago and how that tool turned into one of the most used and respected tools and brands in the SEO world. Jon's journey was not without challenges and problems as you will hear. How Jon and his team rose to those challenges is an inspiration to anyone looking for online success with their business. For any of you on similar journey's or who aspire to achieve entrepreneurial success online, we hope this story will inspire and equip you to build your own success story through both the high points and low points of your journey. Since recording this interview back In September the changes and improvements Jon talks about in Raven Tools have been released so be sure to check them out. Useful Links Raven Tools https://raventools.com/ Pubcon https://www.pubcon.com/ Tapclicks https://www.tapclicks.com/

Listeners know we have had the Mueller Files for a while now, well… it's time for the Illyes Files to make its presence known. This is because Gary Illyes of Google was the bearer of a ton of news at this year's PubCon. That news includes Google Search Switching to Mobile First Index from Desktop Index, Machine Learning Will Never Take Over the Whole Search Algorithm and more.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

James Loomstein is co-founder of Rogue Marketing in Dallas, Texas, a college professor, and regular speaker at digital marketing conferences such as Pubcon. James talks indepth about marketing, project management, […] The post 007 What You Need to Know to Grow – James Loomstein of Rogue Marketing appeared first on The Creative Agency Podcast.