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Author and financial expert, Chris Whelan, joins Keith as they explore the intricacies of the housing market's potential future. Chris drops an intriguing prediction of a possible 20% price correction. They dive deep into the complex world of real estate, examining the pandemic's significant impact on mortgages and economic trends. The conversation reveals the behind-the-scenes challenges of the housing market, from government interventions to the nuanced effects of interest rates and forbearance programs. They unpack the struggles in commercial real estate, particularly highlighting the unique challenges in markets like New York's rent-controlled properties. Chris's new book "Inflated: Money, Debt, and the American Dream" promises an insightful journey through America's economic transformation, tracing how the nation evolved from an agrarian society to a global economic powerhouse. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/556 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, what's the state of the housing market for the next five years, and could what's happening in the foreclosure market affect it? I see relative housing market price stability. My guest sees cracks. This could be somewhat of a debate today, then two great new cash flow and real estate markets in the same state that we're helping your portfolio with on get rich education, mid south home buyers, I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider. Their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive cash flows and A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and now over 5000 houses renovated. There's zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter, remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis, get to know Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid south homebuyers.com.   Corey Coates  1:56   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:12   Welcome to GRE from Edison, New Jersey to Edinburgh, Scotland, where I am today, and across 188 nations worldwide, I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are back for another wealth building week on get rich education. Today's guest came to me recommended. It came from a guest that we've had on the show here before, Jim Rickards and his daughter Ally Rickards. His name is Christopher Whelan. He has a distinguished background. Comes from a prominent family, and he's the author of a new book that just published a few weeks ago. His father, Richard Whelan, was the biographer of Joe Kennedy, and was advisor to presidents and Fed chairman and today's guest, his son there, Chris. He has done a lot of work in DC. He lives just north of New York City today. So I guess coming recommended from Jim Rickards and learning a few things about today's guest helped me want to host him on the show. So though I'm just meeting him for the first time right here on the show, as it turns out, I learned that he has mentioned on other channels that real estate prices could correct down 20% and fall back to 2020 levels. I absolutely don't see how that's possible in any way. I'm going to bring that up with him, so we'll see. This could turn into somewhat of a debate. Like I said last week, I believe that significantly falling housing prices. That's about as likely as grocery store prices falling back to 2020 levels. Yes, I am in Edinburgh, Scotland today. It's my first time here. My mom, dad and also my brother's entire family came over from the US to meet up. It's been great. We're taking in all the best sites, Edinburgh Castle, other castles, the Scottish Highlands, Loch Ness, though I don't believe in any Loch Ness monster at all. I mean, come on, what a hoax. And we're seeing some other sites, though it didn't really interest the others, which I could understand. I visited the home where Adam Smith once resided, and I might put my video about that on our get rich education YouTube channel, so you could check that out over there. Of course, Adam Smith is considered the father of modern day economics for his work on supply versus demand and the GDP concept, the invisible hand, concept, much of that work conveyed in his magnum opus, The Wealth of Nations, published in 1776 as for the present day, let's meet this week's guest, including me, meeting him for the first time.     I'd like to welcome in a first time guest. He's the author of a widely acclaimed new book. It's named inflated money, debt and the American dream. It just released, and the book couldn't be more timely with the multitude of challenges related to inflation, many involving the housing market in his earlier books, he's been known, frankly, for just telling his readers the truth. He's worked at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in politics and as an investment banker for more than 30 years. Today, he runs Whalen Global Advisors. You've seen him on CNBC in the Wall Street Journal, and now you're hearing him on GRE Welcome to the show. Chris Whalen.   Chris Whalen  5:43   Thank you, Keith, appreciate your invitation.    Keith Weinhold  5:45   Whalen is spelled W, H, A, l, e, n, if you're listening in the audio only, Hey, Chris, we're in a really interesting time in the economic cycle. We all know the Fed has a dual mandate, high employment and stable prices. What's interesting to me is, late last year, they cut rates by a full 1% and this is despite inflation being above target. Makes me wonder if they care more about high employment and they're rather willing to let inflation float higher. What are your thoughts?    Chris Whalen  6:18   I think historically, that's been the case. You know, the dual mandate Humphrey Hawkins, that drives the Fed's actions today was a largely socialist compromise between the Republicans and the Democrats. The Democrats wanted to guarantee everybody a job after World War Two, the legislation was really about soldiers and people who had served their country in many, you know, places around the world, for a long time, and then you would have the depression. So you had a whole generation or more of people that were looking for help when they came home. And that's what this was. But today, you know, there's another mandate, which is called keeping the treasury bond market open. We saw it was during COVID in 2020 President Trump got up, declared that people didn't have to pay their rent or their mortgages, and then didn't do anything. There was no follow up. At the time, folks in mortgage industry kind of looked at each other funny for about 60 days and said, What's going to happen? Because they have to advance principal, interest, taxes and insurance to protect the house. The first rule in mortgage finances protect the asset. But it all worked because the Fed dropped interest rates to zero and we had a boom. We refinanced two thirds of every mortgage in the United States, and that cash flow allowed the finance forbearance for millions of Americans. Now the unfortunate part, of course, was home prices went up double digits for six years. So why we had no affordability today? So, you know, it helped, but it certainly didn't help in some ways,   Keith Weinhold  7:48   mortgage loan forbearance back in the COVID era about five years ago, where you could basically just skip your mortgage payment and then they increase the overall duration of your loan period.   Chris Whalen  8:00   That's right. So you know, your government market, your conforming market, were falling. They also had various schemes, state forbearance for non agency loans. Nobody thought at all about the multifamily sector and the developers that didn't get paid for two years. And we're feeling the impact of that. Of course, today, that's probably the biggest pain point in US economy today is commercial real estate and multi family real estate, and neither one of them involves a consumer. So it gets no attention at all. You read about it in the specialty press, but that's about it.    Keith Weinhold  8:34   And by talking about multi family not affecting the consumer, you're just talking about who's on the owner side there?   Chris Whalen  8:40   precisely if all of the consumers have problems, you'd hear about it, and you do, especially in some of the blue states. I live in New York, so we have some of the more aggressive rent stabilization, rent control laws in the country. And they go back to World War Two. They go back almost a century,   Keith Weinhold  8:58   right? It's those people in the one to four unit space in residential real estate investing that really got the help there.    Chris Whalen  9:06   Well, at least, you know, the world didn't end. Imagine if all of those people had gone to foreclosure. The industry wouldn't have done that. Of course, they would have thrown up their hands and cried for help. But the point is, they made it work. But the cost of making it work that zero interest rate regime that the Fed put in place is still being felt today. If you look at banks which typically have prime large mortgages on their books, the loss given default is zero. Home prices are so high that if somebody actually goes to foreclosure, they sell the house, they pay off the loan easily, and there's usually a large residual left, which would go to the homeowner. So today, you know, if somebody gets in trouble, we do a short sale, we do a deed in lieu, and off they go. And that's why the stats don't show you the pain that many American families are feeling today, because about 60% of all payoffs of one to four family mortgages are people who. Are exiting the market, they're not going to buy another house. So what that means is that the cost of home ownership, or whatever other factors are involved, has made them make the decision not to go to another home mortgage.    Keith Weinhold  10:13   Yes, we have this historically low affordability that's beginning to be reflected in the home ownership rate. It's trended down from about 66 to 65% recently, we continue to be in this environment here, Chris in the one to four unit space, where those existing homeowners are in really good shape. They have record high equity levels of over 300k A lot of them have their home paid off. About 40% of American homeowners own their home free and clear, and of the remainder, those borrowers, 82% still have a mortgage rate of under 5% and of course, that principal and interest payment stays fixed. So even if there's economic hardship, it's pretty easy for people to make their payments and stay in their homes.   Chris Whalen  11:02   Well, it certainly is for most of the marketplace. If you look at the bottom 20% the FHA market, also the VA market, there's a little more stress there. There's still an awful lot of people who are in various types of forbearance in that market. That's going to end in October. So the Trump administration is pushing most of the rules back to pre COVID approaches for delinquency, for example, what we call the waterfall. And what that basically means is that if an FHA borrower gets in trouble, they'll have one shot at a modification where they lower the loan cost and stick part of the loan out the back to be paid off when the house is sold. If that doesn't take, if they don't re perform, then they're going to go to a foreclosure. We just ended another program for veterans. You know, they had three weeks notice, so now you're going to see a lot of veterans going to foreclosure. Unfortunately.   Keith Weinhold  11:56   yes, this administration is basically making sure that people are responsible or resume their payments. We've seen that student loan repayments needing to resume as well. Most foreclosure rate types are still pretty low, but yes, FHA foreclosure rates are higher than those for conventional loans.    Chris Whalen  12:15   Yeah, the interesting thing is, the veterans delinquency rate is half of the FHA rate, and even though people in uniform don't make a lot of money, they pay their bills. Yeah, it's quite striking.   Keith Weinhold  12:25   Why don't you talk to us more about areas where you see distress in the housing market before we talk about more inflation? Chris, the   Chris Whalen  12:34   key areas of housing stress at the moment are commercial real estate that has become underutilized. COVID drove a lot of this, but also the fact that industries could change their work practices. It could have people work from home. Look at housing. We sent everybody home in 2020 while we increased headcount by a third to address a surge in lending volume. It was insane. I gotta tell you, we were hiring people that we didn't see for months that changed the business model assumptions for a lot of industries. A lot of them moved out of blue states and went down to Florida and Texas. In the mortgage industry particularly, and so we have a lot of older real estate particularly, that is suffering. It has dropped in terms of appraised values. You also have higher interest rates and higher cap rates, that is to say the assumption of returns on the part of investors. So that hurdle has made a lot of these properties impaired, essentially. And then the other subclass is older multifamily properties. Think about those beautiful old apartments in the middle block up on the east side or the west side of Manhattan. They're not big enough to be viable, and so they have become this kind of subprime asset class, much in the way if you recall the signature bank failure, they typically bank these sorts of real estate properties, and now there's nobody that wants them. I think you're going to see some very specific pain coming out of HUD, and also Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac because they bank some of these smaller properties that really aren't bankable by commercial banks. That's what it comes down to. If you're going to read about this and hear about it a lot in the commercial market over next several years. And again, you know, the losses on bank owned multifamily properties today are averaging 100% so that means that there are a lot that have more expenses than simply losing the full loan amount. And you know, if you want to have a bank loan, they're not taking these properties. They don't want them, right? So the bank, REO rate, if you look at the data from the FDIC, is zero. And what that tells you is that they can't sell the properties they don't want them, because if they take ownership, the city's not going to let them abandon the property. They'll have to keep it and maintain it. It's a tough situation. This is. Has evolved over the last 20 years or so, because consumer incomes have been kind of stagnant in real terms. But the cost of operating a property in New York City is not going down. It's going up quite a lot, and the legislation we've seen from Albany doesn't allow owners to recapture expenses, doesn't allow them to renovate apartments. So if I have a rent stabilized apartment, I'll use a real example, in a beautiful building on Central Park South right, to renovate a unit that's been occupied for 20 years, new kitchen, new bathroom, sir, everything services. That's $150,000 so if I'm the owner and I can't recapture that cost. What do I do? I lock the door, I gut the apartment, and I lock the door, and I hope that the laws will change in the future, because I can't rent it, my insurance underwriter will not allow me to rent out an apartment that's not brought up to code. That's New York law, but the folks in Albany don't care about that. We have some really unreasonable people in positions of authority, unfortunately, in some of these states, and you talk to them about these issues, and they don't care. They just pander to consumers, regardless of whether or not it makes sense or not. And that's just the way it is.   Keith Weinhold  16:15   Those evil landlords, quote, unquote, most right evil. They're just mom and pop investors that are trying to beat inflation with real assets, and they have real expenses. Rent Stabilization basically just being a genteel term for rent control, which gives no one an incentive to improve a property for sure   Chris Whalen  16:35   and it reduces the availability of housing ultimately, because nobody builds. You see that in New York right now the home market is pretty tight, up to the conforming limit for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac so you figure a million, 1,000,002 here in New York. But above that, it's quieted down quite a lot. There's compression in some of the higher end homes. And you know, if you go down south, you see a different problem, which is over building. They didn't want to build here, so they went down to the Carolinas and Texas and Florida. There's a huge amount of both multi family condo type developments and single family homes too. But above that average price level way above half a million dollars.   Keith Weinhold  17:15   Sure, it's made this dynamic where things have been flip flopped in the Northeast and Midwest, where the populations aren't growing very fast, those markets have been appreciating more than those in the high growth southeast, all coming back to supply. They're not bringing on enough new supply in the Northeast and Midwest, Chris has just laid out a few reasons for that, due to this high regulation. And then in the southeast, a high growth area, even though that's where people are moving, we're not getting much appreciation there, because you're able to build and that supply is able to keep up with demand. Well, Chris and I are going to talk more about the housing market and about inflation. When we come back, you're listening to get rich education. Our guest is Chris Whelan, the author of a great new book. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold.   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    You know what's crazy? Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to 66866.   Kathy Fettke  19:45   this is the real wealth network's Kathy Fettke, and you are listening to the always valuable get rich education with Keith Weinhold.    Keith Weinhold  20:00   You welcome back to get rich education. We're talking with the author of a great new book, Chris Whelan, it's called inflated money, debt and the American dream. Chris, I see the residential housing market and their price points as being resilient. I'm kind of looking around and seeing if you have any places where you think that there are any cracks in that? I've heard you talk elsewhere about a housing price correction. Were you talking in the one to four unit space? And how do you think that could happen?   Chris Whalen  20:31   I didn't come up with that idea. I did a biography of my good friend Stan middleman, who's the founder of freedom mortgage. It's a real rags to riches story of a successful entrepreneur, a great guy, by the way, is a beloved man in the mortgage industry. And so what he believes is that cycles are about a decade in terms of human behavior. And he says misery on the eights, which is kind of a cute way of saying it. And what Stan is basically saying is you eventually see so much price appreciation that affordability goes to zero. You run out of buyers, is another way to put it. And then once the Fed gooses it, he thinks we see an interest rate decline this year next year, perhaps you get rates to run a little bit. You get volumes to jump the way they did last summer. You remember, in the third quarter, we had great volumes in the mortgage industry, carried everybody through to the end of the year, and then after that, he says, we get a price correction, maybe back down to 2020 21 levels. So we're talking about a 20% price correction, and we're talking about the loans that have been made in the last few years being underwater. That's something we haven't talked about in a long time. We haven't talked about that since 2008 so I think that Americans inevitably have to see some kind of a correction. What the Fed did was wrong, what they did was excessive. I write about that in the end of my book, but unfortunately, the result is home prices that have galloped along, and eventually you got to reset it. Part of its supply coming online. Part of it is simply, like, I say, you run out of buyers, and when it's simply that purchase buyer who is either all cash or happens to have the deposit, and that's all you have. And there's no flexibility for people that want to get into the market. You know, that's tough. I could recall Paul Volcker years ago, we were talking about that in the book too. He ratcheted down home prices. He raised interest rates so much that home prices went down, and a lot of builders went out of business who had had a lot of snls go out of business, and, you know, the previous decade. So that was a tough time. We didn't even start to do that this time around, because they were afraid to the Fed is worried about keeping the Treasury market open, so they are afraid of deflation, which unfortunately means you don't get those opportunities to get into the market. I remember my parents, when I was very young, they would buy busted homes in Washington, DC. It was a great way to make a lot of money, and in five years, the House would double. That's the kind of market Washington was   Keith Weinhold  23:05   in my opinion, I don't see how there could be any substantial residential home price correction. Historically that happens when there's a wide swath of homeowners that get into financial trouble, like I was talking about earlier, the homeowner is in great financial shape today. In fact, since World War Two, we've only seen home prices drop substantially during one period. That was that period around 2008 and that's when we had conditions that are opposite of what they are today. We had loans underwritten with liar loans. We had an over supply of homes, like I was saying earlier, inflation can't touch one's principal and interest payment. We're still under supplied with homes. Most experts don't think we'll get that into balance for at least five years. I really don't see how home prices could fall substantially. I also don't see how they could rise substantially, like, say, 10% due to that low affordability, but I expect continued stability in prices?    Chris Whalen  24:02   Well, we'll see. I'm not as sanguine about that, because a lot of people feel house rich on paper, but when the bottom of the stack is really hurting as it is now, FHA delinquency rates really are in probably the mid teens. You don't see that yet in the middle with the 727, 40 FICO type borrowers. But I think over time you could, and if, again, it depends on the economy and some other factors, but I'll tell you right now, you're already seeing a correction in the hyad the bottom half, no. And there's a supply problem here, which I agree with you on. It's going to keep those home price is pretty firm. And even where I am in New York, for God's sake, Keith, there's no construction here. So we just had a house across the street from me go from million one. I live in Sleepy, hollow New York, and you know, this is typically around the conforming limit for prices for most of these homes, and it went for 150 $1,000 over the ask, it was crazy. Went in two weeks now, during COVID, we saw this sort of behavior, and we thought, Well, okay, you had zero interest rates. I got a 3% mortgage, by the way, awesome. But here we have a situation when markets cooled down a lot, and yet the lack of availability is really the driver. So in that sense, I agree with you, but I do think the high end could correct rather substantially.   Keith Weinhold  25:24    And of course, in multi family apartments, that's different. That's where values in a lot of markets have been depressed by more than 30% they were subject to those interest rates being jacked up, and we're still going to see balloon loans mature and people default on those in apartments. The pain is not over with air, but at some point that's going to bottom out, and that'll be a buyer opportunity in apartments.   Chris Whalen  25:47    Well, the thing is, new stuff is going fine. It's what happens is when the new gets built, the older assets down the road get discounted. That's really what's going on. People love new as you know, these kids love a new house, as opposed to an older house.   Keith Weinhold  26:02   Yes, that'll help reset the prices in the new market when you can compare those to what existing values are. Well, Chris, talk to us more about your new book and what the overall thesis of the book is in these critical times.    Chris Whalen  26:16   Inflated is meant to help people understand how our country went from agrarian, sleepy, isolationist America in the 1900s to being the dominant economy in the world and the provider of global money. We talk about how we got here. We talk about Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt and many other characters. Obviously, we had to talk about Andrew Jackson, who is now embodied in our president, Donald Trump. We try and frame how this is all going to evolve in the future. And my thesis is basically the global currency role is something you get during or after a war. We took the baton from Great Britain after the First World War, and then by the end of World War Two, everybody in the world was broke, except for us. It was last man standing. And so rebuilt the world. We let everybody take advantage of us, and now President, who's saying, Nope, we got to change this. I think if it wasn't Trump, it would be somebody else. To be honest with you, Americans are tired of high inflation. They're tired of some of the other costs that come along with being the global reserve currency, so we try and frame all of this in an understandable way. And I particularly talk about housing during COVID and how that all really, I think, changed things for many Americans. Home ownership has been one of the basic ways we create wealth in this country, and the fact that we didn't have an opportunity for people to get in cheap with a fixer upper or a house that was foreclosed. You know, I think it's unfortunate, but the system just can't tolerate it. We've gone in 2008 and then in 2020 through two very significant crises when the government bond market stopped working. So we talk about that as well.   Keith Weinhold  28:03   I don't predict interest rates. I think it is really difficult to do you mentioned earlier about the prospect for lower interest rates coming. Everyone wants to know about coming. What's your outlook for the future of interest rates and inflation for just say the next five years? Chris,    Chris Whalen  28:19   I think interest rates will drop. That is to say what the Fed controls, which is short term interest rates. In the next year or so, we'll have a little bit of a boom as a result. But I think the concern about the federal deficit and US debt, the volatility caused by President Trump's trade strategy, and just general I think a sense of uncertainty among investors is going to keep long term interest rates higher than we saw during COVID And really the whole period since 2008 the Fed bought a lot of duration and took it out of the market, so they kept rates low. They're not going to do that as much in the future. I don't think they'll buy mortgage securities again, they are very chastened by that experience. So if they don't buy mortgage backed securities, and if the banks don't become more aggressive buyers, and I don't think they will, then you know, the marginal demand that would drive mortgage rates down is just not going to be there. Banks have been holding fewer and fewer mortgages and mortgage backed securities on their books for 35 years. If you look at the growth in the industry, the dollar amount of one to four family mortgages hasn't changed very much. So when you look at it that way, it's like, you know what's wrong? Two things. They want to only make mortgages to affluent households. They want to avoid headline risk and litigation and fines and all of that. And I think also, too some of the Basel capital rules for banks discourage them from holding mortgages and mortgage servicing rights, which is an area I work in quite a lot.   Keith Weinhold  29:55   It seems to me, like increasingly, the powers. It be the United States government just won't let the homeowner fail. They want to do so much to promote home ownership over the long term, we see relative ease with getting a mortgage. We've seen lower down payment requirements during other times, including COVID. We see the government jump in with things like mortgage loan forbearance and an eviction moratorium for renters. They just don't want to let people lose their homes. It just seems like there's more propensity to give homeowners a greater safety net than ever. Well,   Chris Whalen  30:29   we've turned it into an entitlement. Yeah, and Trump is changing that at the federal level. The states, the blue states, are going to continue to play that game at the state level, and they can even have state moratoria. But what's going to happen, and I think sooner rather than later, is you may see the federal agencies start to tier the states in terms of servicing fees, simply to reflect the cost. It takes over 1400 days to do a foreclosure in New York. Gosh, that is a big problem. You can lose the lien in New York now, it takes so long. So I think that, you know, from an investor perspective, from a developer perspective, it's not an attractive venue. That's just the reality. Then you even California is as progressive and as activists as it is, you can still get a foreclosure done very quickly using the trustees. It's just a totally different situation. If there are complications, you can get into a judicial foreclosure, which will take longer. But still, California works. New York is deliberately dysfunctional. We have people in the state legislature who are in foreclosure themselves, and they keep passing these laws. So, you know, I think at the federal level, you're going to see it roll back to pre COVID, but I will say that forbearance, both with respect to the agency and conventional market and private loans, is kind of the rule. Now we work with the borrower much more than we would in the past. It's it is really night and day.   Keith Weinhold  32:00   Chris, your new book has gotten a lot of acclaim. Let us know anything else that we should know about this book, and then if we can get it in all the usual places   Chris Whalen  32:10   you can buy it at Barnes and Noble Amazon. I have a page on my website, RC, waylon.com, with all the relevant links. But the online is the best way to get it. Most of the sales are on Kindle anyway, but well over 90% are online, so we don't have to worry about physical books. I think we'll be doing some book signings in the New York area. So we'll definitely let you know about that.   Keith Weinhold  32:33   One last thought is that the rate of inflation means more to a real estate investor than it does to a layperson, maybe five times as much or more, because when we borrow for an income property, our asset floats up with inflation. That part's really just a hedge on inflation. Our debt gets debased by inflation, which is really a mechanism for profiting from inflation over time. And then, thirdly, our cash flow tends to go up even faster than the rate of inflation, since our principal and interest stays fixed, so real estate investors can often be the beneficiary of inflation. It's sort of strange to go root for a force like inflation that can impoverish so many people. But what are your thoughts with respect to real estate investors and inflation?   Chris Whalen  33:19   Well, you know, it's funny when Jerome Powell at the Fed says that they have a 2% inflation target, my response is, well, we better have at least 2% inflation if we're going to make commercial real estate work. Commercial real estate went up for 75 years after World War Two. I can remember when I was in the rating business at Crowell bond ratings going to see some of the banks here in New York, their multifamily books had only seen the equity underneath the asset go up and up and up. In other words, the land ended up being 90% of the value, you know, 1520, years after the purchase and the improvements were almost worthless simply because the land appreciated so much. Now that has changed since COVID. A lot of commercial real estate, particularly has gotten under a bit of a cloud. You've seen falling prices. However, in parts of the country that are growing where you have a positive political environment, positive economic environment, you're still seeing fantastic growth in both commercial and multifamily markets. So I think being very careful and patient in doing your homework in terms of picking venues is more important now than ever before. You know, I'll give you an example. Down in Florida, we're building new malls every day. The mall down the road that's 15 years old. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's 15 years old. And so the price discounts that you're seeing for existing assets are rather striking. Same thing down in the Carolinas, down in, you know, Atlanta, and going down to the Texas growth spectacle, I'm always astounded by what's going on in Texas. They built so much in that whole area around South Lake, out by the airport. It, they're going to basically subsume used it. So, you know, in those markets, you have great opportunities, but you also have over building. And so we're going to see some cycles where they're going to be deals out there for projects that maybe were a little too ambitious have to get restructured, and astute investors can come in and do very well on that   Keith Weinhold  35:20   like we often say around here, in real estate investing, the market is typically even more important than the property itself. The name of Chris's new book, again, is inflated money, debt and the American dream. It has an awful lot of intersections with real estate investors and how they can play inflation. Uh, Chris has been a terrific conversation about the real estate market and larger market forces. It's been great having you here on the show.   Chris Whalen  35:47   Thank you, Keith. Let's do it again.   Keith Weinhold  35:49   Yeah, some good insights from Chris, a smart guy. And gosh, what a really sad state for rent stabilized apartments in New York City, where landlords of some of those properties, they would have to spend sometimes hundreds of 1000s of dollars in order to bring them up to code, but then they couldn't charge enough rent to offset those expenses due to government intervention and price fixing, so landlords just lock up the property vacant. And this sort of harkens back to when we were talking about some of this last year, when we had documentary film maker jen siderova on the show with her film called shopification, and it was about how rent control slowly makes neighborhoods fall into disrepair. All right, Chris and I had some difference of opinion there on the prospects for a home price correction. I think I made most of my points. He did, though, talk about running out of home buyers. If I have him back, maybe I'll pick up right there. More buyers are baked into the demographics, like I think I shared with you one time the US had its highest ever birth rate years between 1990 and 2010 more than 4 million births per year for a lot of those years. Just to review this with you, you might remember that 2007 was the US is peak birth year. Add 38 years to that for the average first time homebuyer age, and that housing demand won't even peak until 2045 and it will continue to stay high for a few years after that. So that's where the demand is just going to keep coming from, just piling on. And when I say that loan conditions have eased for American homeowners, like I did there during the interview, of course, what I'm talking about is the long term. I mean, lending conditions got more rigid after 2008 and with the adoption of Dodd Frank. What I'm talking about is, before the Great Depression, it was most common to have to make 50% to 60% down payments on property, and you had to repay the entire note in five to 10 years. I mean, can you imagine how that would hurt affordability today and then later, by 1950, 15, year loans were the common one. I mean, even that would impair affordability today. Today, 30 year loans are the common one, and you can put as little as 3% down on a primary residence. A lot of people don't know that either. It does not take 20% on a primary residence. So that's what I mean about the relative ease of credit flow today. Now, Chris has knowledge about other parts of the real estate market that I don't for his work inside DC and in other places like the foreclosure market. We talked about some of that right after the interview. For example, He was letting acronyms like NPL roll off his tongue, and I had to ask him what that meant. That's a non performing loan. Check out Chris's new book. Again, it's called inflated money debt in the American dream. And again, his website is RCwhalen.com and Chris also has a great sense of history, which we didn't get into, longtime real estate guys radio show co host Russell gray and I will discuss monetary history here on the show soon. Like I said, I'm coming to you from Edinburgh, Scotland this week, even if you don't see great sites, you know, it's interesting just walking the historic streets here, if you're an American that's visited here before, you surely know what I mean. And I told you that I'd let you know, the current real estate transaction I'm involved in is paying $650 a night for the hotel here in Edinburgh. Yes, that's a lot. I've actually paid less for fancier places in Dubai, but this hotel here is on the Royal Mile. Of course, I could have found less expensive accommodations elsewhere.    Speaking of less expensive, here's an announcement. And we have new investment property providers at GRE marketplace, two of them, the markets are both in Oklahoma, and they are Oklahoma City and Tulsa, Oklahoma as a state, is known for landlord friendly eviction processes and legal systems, kind of the opposite of New York. So this makes your property management more predictable. Now, when we look at this city, OKC has the lowest priced new single family rentals. I can think of it under 160k Yes, that really puts the exclamation point on inexpensive and favorable rent to price ratios often exceeding 1% which is obviously attractive for cash flow, meaning a 150k single family rental could yield over $1,500 in rent. There's high rental demand in certain sub markets. We have scouted out those exact places for you in the OKC metro, like Edmond Moore spelled M, O, O, R, E, and Midwest City, all supporting consistent rent income, though it was once really oil dependent, OKC has diversified economically, reducing your risk tied to commodity cycles and ok sees local economy that's supported by industries including aerospace, energy, health care and logistics. Then there's Tulsa. Tulsa has the highest cash flowing new build duplexes, perhaps anywhere in the US that I know about. On the single family rental side, a lot of Tulsa investors can find properties under 150k with monthly rents again exceeding 1% of the purchase price, clearly ideal. So yes, both Oklahoma City and Tulsa are now on GRE marketplace. You can either visit the pages and see them there, or one of our qualified, experienced GRE investment coaches. Meet with them. They can help guide you to the very best deals and show you the specific property addresses available right at this time for whatever best meets your needs. If you're looking to either start or expand to another market and you seek cash flow, you really need to consider Oklahoma. Yes, it is free to have a strategy session with an investment coach, whether that's for Oklahoma or other investor advantage regions. I often like to leave you with something actionable. You can start at GREinvestment coach.com start book a meeting for a free strategy session remotely. That's at GREinvestment coach.com, until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Dolf Deroos  42:51   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Advice, opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  43:14   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access and it's got pay walls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre to 66866. While it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre to 66866.   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.

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Join the revolution in Aussie Media! Join THE EXCLUSIVE SIDE at https://www.othersidetv.com.au/Support our show: go to https://piavpn.com/OTHERSIDE to get 83% off Private Internet Access with 4 months free! THIS WEEK ON THE OTHER SIDE…-- New Zealand in turmoil as one of the biggest Maori marches on parliament  in the nation's history unfolds with big implications for Australia's approach to indigenous affairs-- Australia's leading conservative commentator for decades, Alan Jones, arrested in an early morning raid on his Sydney apartment -- Professor James Allan joins us to discuss the government's CENSORSHIP laws in detail… you'll be horrified by what they're actually proposing-- And The Other Side's "Three Wise Men"  are back  to discuss the terrible treatment of doctors by our health bureaucrats during Covid AND whether  Donald Trump's attempts to reform the American bureaucracy will work.Ep 337 of The Other Side for the weekend commencing Friday November 22, 2024.Watch all our shows on YouTube for FREE! Here: https://www.youtube.com/@OtherSideAusSupport the showJoin The EXCLUSIVE Side at www.OtherSideTV.com.auand help us revolutionise the lame Aussie media! The Other Side is a weekly news/commentary show on YouTube @OtherSideAus and available to watch FREE here: https://www.youtube.com/@OtherSideAus Follow us on X @OtherSideAUS Subscribe NOW on YouTube @OtherSideAUS

My latest Cool Friend is the incredible talented Joey Bragg. Joey and I officially met four days before recording, when he was booked on Mint on Card, and we instantly clicked. One of those friendships that just kinda blooms immediately, you know? Well it turns out that not only is Joey a hilarious comedian, but he's a rather prolific actor who came up as one of the leads in Disney's very charming family sitcom Liv and Maddie. He's been in a ton of other stuff, too, including the feature film Sid is Dead, which was a victim of both Covid AND a strike, but retains a cult following of its own. Well wouldn't you know it, but Joey is a huge comics nerd and we geek the absolute hell out about that for A LOT of this episode, so I hope you like nerdy conversations between two super cool dudes that totally aren't dorks. It's refreshing to form a friendship with someone so quickly and effortlessly, and I'm really stoked for this episode. And hey, go follow @Joeybragg on the socials and check out his stuff! And while you're at it, head on over to Patreon.com/jeffmay and enjoy the Patreon-exclusive content we recorded JUST FOR PATRONS!

Keith highlights the unprecedented surge in immigration and its impact on housing demand. The conversation also covers state income tax policies, noting that nine states have no income tax, and the impact of international tax laws on US citizens abroad.  Immigrants now make up more than 14% of the US population, the highest proportion since 1910. The US is facing a significant housing shortage, with an estimated 4.5 million housing units needed. Housing shortages are expected to continue, with homelessness rates rising by 12% year over year. Learn about the challenges of being a US citizen living abroad and the potential for double taxation. Resources: Connect with Tom's team at WealthAbility for a free consultation on permanently reducing taxes. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/525 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREmarketplace.com/Coach Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai   Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, both an immigrant surge and a big wave of US born residents is tightening housing demand near unprecedented levels. Then we're joined by show regular Tom terrific again, but it's not Tom Brady on how to legally avoid paying state income tax and the fact that if you're from the US, if you move out, you must still pay tax on your worldwide income, plus more tax strategies that you can benefit from today on Get Rich Education.   Speaker 1  0:34   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show, guess who? Top Selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit getricheducation.com   Corey Coates  1:20   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:36   Welcome to GRE from Athens Georgia to Athens, Greece and across 488 nations worldwide. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, get rich education. Founder, Forbes real estate council member, best selling. Author, long time real estate investor and holder of a humble bachelor's degree in geography from a college in Pennsylvania that nobody's ever heard of. It's that time of year where you now have Halloween decorations in your front yard competing hard for space with political campaign signs. What's your HOA gonna do now? Welcome in this slack shot operation right here is the get rich education podcast. I think you know that by now it's episode 525   Brace yourself, immigration has absolutely exploded. I've got the latest numbers on that, and there's a chart recently published in The Wall Street Journal that shows it all legal and illegal. We're a real estate platform, so the question I'm asking is, Where in the heck are we going to house all of these people? In addition to soaring immigration, we'll look at our own domestic US born surging population that are forming households now, and that part might have flown under your radar. This is an urgent issue. All of this isn't just coming. It is already here, this explosion of housing demand, it will indelibly shape both broader society and real estate's supply demand component for decades, it is really approaching the unprecedented we look at net immigration to the US since 2000 it's really these past four years where the numbers have shot up like a rocket through 2020 immigration averaged around 1.2 million people per year, but since 2021 it has more than doubled to around two and a half million net immigrants per year. But the number of illegals arriving among them has gone up as much as 10x starting in 2021 and the overall figures they keep rising. Last year, there were over 3 million immigrants, about three times the total number that we averaged in the first 20 years of this century. So a 3x total net inflow, legal and illegal. And these figures in the Wall Street Journal chart, they are sourced by the CBO. Now you might think that the immigrants that did not enter legally could eventually get deported, but some of them that are already living and working here, gained something called Temporary Protected Status that keeps them here. Well, our central question remains, Where in the heck are we going to house all of these immigrants in a nation of almost three 40 million people? Do you have any idea what our foreign born population is up to now, okay, so not the descendants of those people, just the foreign born population here now, out of the 340 million total US population, any guess? Venture a guess. Last year, the US foreign born population reached 47.8 million. And that figure 47 point 8 million, that is five times more than in 19 75x Do you even realize that's almost double the population of the entire continent of Australia, now crammed into the states. That's how many immigrants, 47.8 million is. It's also the same as the population of all of Spain. That's another way of saying it all in the US today. And by the way, that is my geography degree at work, right there. Hey, the geography muscle is one that I just don't get to flex enough. Immigrants now make up more than 14% of the population. That is one in seven Americans. And that proportion, right there is the most since 1910, per Pew Research. Well, where are the immigrants from? Alright? Before I get into that, if we go back about 60 years, immigrant growth accelerated after Congress made changes to US immigration laws in 1965 that was a key year before 1965 the law favored immigrants from Northern and Western Europe, and it mostly barred immigration from Asia, all right, Well, so here in modern times, where are immigrants from? Mexico is the top country in 2022, 10.6, million immigrants living in the US were born there. That is almost a quarter of all immigrants. And then the next largest origin groups in order are those from India, China, the Philippines, and then El Salvador. All right, so there are a lot of new immigrants here, like a demographic shock wave that's going to drive the demand for housing. But there's way more to this housing crunch story. Combine this nascent immigration influx along with America's own high birth rate years. And this is something that you might not be aware of, though, what I just talked about that might have been somewhat informative to you. You probably had some idea that immigration is higher now, because it's been in the news cycle for a few years here, but something that you probably don't know. And yes, fertility rates are down today, but there was a boom of US born residents from the years 1990 to 2010 and then you might say, well, so what 1990 to 2010 that was in the past? But no, actually, it is just the beginning, because when it comes to housing, it has less to do with the birth year. Currently, what you have to do is add perhaps 25 or 35 years to that birth year, because that's the age of when that person tends to start their own household. And the average age of today's first time homebuyer is 35 to 36 years old. Well, the US is peak birth year occurred in 2007 then adds 35 or so to it. And that means that, on average, they will buy their first home in the early 2040s and a lot of them were going to start renting in the 2020s and 2030s So suffice to say, a lot more Americans will need homes. Well, what else will those high birth years from 1990 to 2010 mean now and into the future? Realize that over 13,000 Americans are turning 35 every single day, both now and years in to the future, record highs. Yes, every single day, just another demographic figure that's on the rise, and there are deaths to account for as well. But the population aging into home ownership is projected to exceed the population aging out like with deaths for a long time, this will pump housing demand. The US has about 144 million housing units today, and we are going to need more housing of all types. Well, between all the fresh immigration I discussed and this US born surge, you've indubitably got the recipe for a ridiculous amount of demographic driven housing demand. And you know, maybe over the past few years, at times, you or some of your friends or family, they've wondered why housing prices have risen fast, why rents have risen fast, and why? Even a tripling of mortgage rates couldn't stop it. It could only slow it down. It's because of this demand that is just coming, and it's going to keep on coming from both the US born demographic surge and an immigrant surge. And here's the thing, as we know this is all amidst a still lackluster US housing supply today, so greater demand, yet still a meager supply. Zillow estimates that we're still four and a half million housing units short, and the housing deficit is growing, although other outlets have estimates that, you know, they really are all over the place. These estimates as to how great the shortage is, 3 million is probably closer to a good amalgamation of how severe the housing shortage is, all right. Well, how do we reduce the housing deficit? We need to start more construction, but it had its recent peak in 2022 and it's fallen since then, in single family homes, because builders faced higher interest rates then and new apartment building starts, they have fallen too. And two years ago we had a lot of apartment building starts, actually. And as you drive through major cities today, you might still see cranes in the air. You still see a lot of active apartment building construction, actually, but more of those projects began two years ago. They began to freeze as interest rates rose, and now they've just got to complete what they've already begun. It can be two years from an apartment construction start to a completion. So as some of these complete, there will be some absorption time there on apartments. But the starts are way down on apartments. This year, we should have at least double the number of apartment starts being started than what we have now. So this sets us up for more future shortages, regulation and zoning. We know that that slows down building for most any housing type, single family, homes, apartments, condos, whatever it is. And nimbyism is a condition that's especially pervasive in the construction of new apartment buildings. Neighbors don't perceive new single family homes as a threat in their neighborhood like they do apartments, whether that's warranted or not. That's how people feel. That's the sentiment. That's the type of neighbor that shows up at a public meeting and speaks out against new apartment buildings. So to summarize what you've learned so far, it's really the confluence of four housing factors coming together here, two of them for higher demand and two for lower supply. The two for higher demand are more immigrants and a surge of US born people from 1990 to 2010 that are just starting to get old enough to need their own place. That's the higher demand side. And then the two factors on the paltry supply side are both a lack of current supply and not enough building for the future. Either it is an increasingly dire situation, and it can even be in your face. Actually. How is it in your face? Well, it's one reason that you see more homeless people on the street in your nearest city, although you might see more US born homeless than you do immigrant homeless. HUD tells us that the homelessness rate has jumped 12% year over year. That's the fastest homelessness increase rate they've ever reported. I talked to you about that before, and I'm waiting for HUD to release their new number in December. They released that annually. You know, amidst this demand, supply imbalance, in fact, anymore, let's look at it this way. Let's flip the script. Consider what could possibly stop insatiable US housing demand from exceeding supply for decades. And when you do, when you think about what could stop that, it starts to get absurd a sudden, new construction technology that pumps out homes like a popcorn machine, climate change that roasts us into human popcorn, not the good kind, and AI or VR, so advanced that We're all going to live inside some sort of force field. How about an even worse pandemic, or even a world war that would have to kill at least 10s of millions of people, or something like that, or aliens or asteroids destroying Earth? Or how about a depression level economic contraction. But see all these scenarios that would derail the housing demand trend. They range from the pretty unlikely to the downright ludicrous. Starts to sound like a Sci-fi flick, and amidst a lot of those afflictions, your life's biggest concern wouldn't be your real estate investment portfolio. It would be primordial human survival. Now, before I summarize your big takeaway here, let me tell you immigration, it has near term downsides, like a lack of housing and a demand for public assistance. And yes, I know a huge pack of new immigrants can appear sort of like a Walmart at first glance, huge, chaotic and full of people that seem like they've given up on life.   But that is certainly not always the case. A lot of immigrants are ambitious long term new young people drive an economy. Immigrants have long been a backbone of innovation. A lot of our tech giants were started by immigrants or their children, and also a lot of immigrants find those construction jobs that can help us build our way out of the housing shortage crisis, but that is going to take a long time. The bottom line here is that if you're looking for your own home, waiting probably won't help. As an investor, own more properties now, own lots of rental housing, you're going to have something that everybody needs. Housing demand is expected to exceed supply well into the future. Both this US born surge of people and the immigrants, what they do is they tend to be renters for years before they become buyers, if they ever become buyers, from here today, it's a realistic scenario to expect then soaring real estate prices, higher rents and lofty occupancy rates for years.    Well, Tom terrific is back in the house, and we are talking taxes. Brady's in the gun bulletin to his left. He's got the hoo man on the right wing with Dobson to the right Collie and Tomkins left. Brady throws it to the end zone for kenbrell Tompkins. Leaping. Kenbrell Tompkins, Brady's back.   That's your quarterback. Show ponies, where's the beat? All right, that's enough. Scott zolak, Bob Sochi on the call there 95 the sports hub in Boston. No Tom. Brady is not the Tom terrific that we often have here. Brady simply doesn't know enough about taxes. We've got the tax expert with us, the extraordinary Tom. We're right. What about that spirited play call at the end there? Did he say unicorns show ponies? Where's the beef? I don't really get all that. So getting back to real estate and taxes here, look, here's the thing, when you see what your government spends money on, and you're disgusted by some of these spending programs, doesn't that give you a supreme motivation to want to reduce your taxes? Well, we're going to talk about state income taxes where they're high where they're low. There are currently nine income tax free states. Are more states looking to drop their income tax to zero and join them? Or is it going the other direction, where they're looking to raise them if you live in one state and invest in another. We'll get into how that looks too. Canadian listeners, sorry, we don't plan to have provincial income tax discussion today. Now, I seem to have become here no more for my real estate investing voice than anything else. Last month, I was in Pennsylvania for a while, and I ran into one of my high school teachers. He was the art teacher, but he also taught a class called journalism in publications. That was an elective class, and I took that class as a high school student. I think I was a senior then, well, our job was to lay out the yearbook, writing, positioning and centering this text here in that image over there. Well, I told my old journalism and publications teacher that he's been a substantial influence on me because, as you know, I write our Don't quit your Daydream letter to you about every week. And I just love doing that, I've always thought of myself as more of a writer than a talker, and I myself really enjoy writing and laying out the body and images of our newsletter and sending it to you about weekly on crucial information that you must know About, real estate investing, economics and wealth mindset. It's got a dash of humor, and every single letter can be read in less than five minutes, often less than three minutes. I would love to have you as one of our 1000s of weekly readers, and it is free. You can get it simply by texting GRE  to 6866. come along and join us for real estate investing information and fun. Just take a moment and do it right now while it's on your mind. Text, GRE to 6686 lots more. Straight ahead. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get Rich education.   Hey, you can get your mortgage loans at the same place where I get mine, at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than any provider in the entire nation because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, you can start your pre qualification and chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. Start Now while it's on your mind at Ridgelendinggroup.com, that's ridgelendinggroup.com.   Your bank is getting rich off of you. The national average bank account pays less than 1% on your savings. If your money isn't making 4% you're losing your hard earned cash to inflation. Let the liquidity fund help you put your money to work. With minimum risk, your cash generates up to an 8% return with compound interest, year in and year out. Instead of earning less than 1% sitting in your bank account, the minimum investment is just 25k you keep getting paid until you decide you want your money back. Their decade plus track record proves they've always paid their investors 100% in full and on time. And I would know, because I'm an investor too. Earn 8% hundreds of others are. Text FAMILY  to 66866, learn more about Freedom Family Investments, liquidity fund on your journey to financial freedom through passive income. Text FAMILY to 66866.   Chris Martenson  21:42   this is peak prosperity's Chris Martinson. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  21:58   This week's guest is, to me, the world's foremost tax pro. He is an international authority on how you can permanently reduce your taxes, and he really makes taxes easy, fun and understandable, like no one else that I've ever met does. He runs a terrific educational platform too. It's called wealth ability. Welcome back to get rich education. Tom, we're right.    Tom Wheelwright  22:21   Thanks, Keith, always good to be here.    Keith Weinhold  22:23   Yeah, it's so good to have you back, because taxes are such a dynamic topic. And one place where I wonder if it's going to be dynamic, Tom, is we have a number of states that don't have any state income tax, which is something that people have to pay on top of their federal income tax. Federal alone can be up to 37% some of the states with the fastest population growth, like Tennessee, Florida and Texas, don't have any state income tax. So what I'm wondering, Tom is, are more states considering abolishing the income tax like those states have done.    Tom Wheelwright  22:59   We've actually seen a lot of states in the last couple of years reduced their income tax rates. So Arizona, where I live, is one of them. We went from over a potential tax rate of like eight and a half percent potential to an actual tax rate of 5% there was actually a proposal passed that would have increased it down to a tax rate of two and a half percent. Our former governor, Doug Ducey, his goal was to abolish the income tax in Arizona, and we did get down to two and a half percent. There are a number of states, typically in the middle of the country. You don't see any states on the coasts doing this, outside of Florida, that are reducing their tax rates. So you do see states doing that. You see other states that are increasing their tax rates. Recently, I was reading about Bill Belichick, and he said, Massachusetts is always hard getting the top earners, the top free agents, into New England. Because he says, This is taxachusetts, because they have a surtax on millionaires. Well, of course, all football players are millionaires. That is an issue. People are leaving states like California, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and they're moving to low tax states such as Arizona, Texas, Florida and, you know, the whole southern belt.    Keith Weinhold  24:15   with Belichick having Tom Brady. It didn't matter if he couldn't bring in the best players, because Tom Brady made stars out of nobodies. It seems like he could complete a pass to any no name wide receiver or tight end for two decades there in New England. But can you tell us more about maybe interesting dynamics with state income tax? For example, I know that California has punitively high state income taxes, and then you have other states that have tax rate tables and some that have flat taxes, like, I think Pennsylvania has about a 3% flat income tax. Colorados is 4.4 so can you tell us more?   Tom Wheelwright  24:51   Yeah, there are, you know, the federal income tax has graduated rates. We go, actually, from a zero rate to currently a 37% rate, which is not really 37% rate. It's really 41% because there's a 4% add on tax that pretty much you're gonna pay. So it's really over 40% California has a graduated tax rate, but it goes up to 13% Minnesota has a high income tax. New York has a high income tax. So Massachusetts, we're seeing high income taxes. The states that provide have big governments and provide lots of services have high tax rates. That's why we see it on the coasts. Interesting enough. Minnesota. Minnesota is the liberal state in the middle of the country, and so they have liberal states tend to have very high tax rates, and conservative states tend to have very low tax rates.    Keith Weinhold  25:45   Now we have a lot of real estate investors here that have learned that the best deals are outside their home state. So that investor might be domiciled in a Minnesota, but investing in, say, Arkansas, tell us about how the state income tax affects them.   Tom Wheelwright  25:59    So it's kind of like being a US citizen, right? You live in the US. You're taxed on your worldwide income. You live in Minnesota. You're taxed on your worldwide income in Minnesota. So by virtue of where your residency is, you are taxed on all of your income. Now you'll get a credit, typically, for taxes paid to another state. Well, let's say that your tax rate in your state is 10% and then you invest in a state with a tax rate of 3% well you're going to get tax credit of 3% so you're still going to pay 7% in your state, plus 3% that state. You're still going to pay your 10% it's just going to be some of that's going to go to another state. Some of it's going to go to your state. But in total, your tax rate is likely to be wherever you live. That's youroverall state tax rate. I'll give you another example. Let's say that you invest in Texas, you live in in Minnesota, you're going to pay Minnesota tax rates on your income, you get no credit because you have no tax in Texas. What's worse is, though, you have property tax in Texas, but you don't get a credit in Minnesota for your property tax paid in Texas. So you have much higher property taxes in Texas than you do in most states. Right? Because every state has to raise revenue, right? In Texas has decided to it largely on sales tax and property tax. So that means that you don't get that offset. Property taxes are pretty serious in Texas. If you're an investor in Texas, you know that property taxes are pretty serious, but you don't get any kind of benefit in Minnesota, but you still pick up the income in Minnesota.    Keith Weinhold  27:38   In some Texas jurisdictions, property taxes can be 3% annually based on the property's value, pretty punitive. There in Texas, Texas is a good example. That's where we have often high property tax rates, but zero state income tax. So with these other states that have zero state income tax, are they subsidizing that with property taxes or sales taxes, or in what other way are they making up that?    Tom Wheelwright  28:03   Of course, for example, we were talking earlier about Tennessee. Tennessee doesn't have a personal income tax, but if you have your real estate owned through a limited liability company, you do have a 6% tax on the income of the LLC. So even though it's a pass through entity for Tennessee purposes, it's taxed. They have all sorts of mechanisms to raise revenue. All states need revenue. Now, some states raise less revenue per capita than other states. Those are the states that people tend to move to. But don't forget those other taxes. I mean, sales taxes. Sales taxes can be very high, right? And you pay sales taxes typically don't pay them on food or prescription drugs, but you typically pay them on pretty much everything else, and including leasing a car, they're going to get their money. It's just how they get their money.    Keith Weinhold  28:50   Well, we've been talking about ways that you could potentially legally escape taxation, depending on what state that you live in. So in a domestic sense, and Tom we pull back and we think about that in an international sense. A lot of Americans don't seem to realize that if they're, I guess, born and raised and get citizenship in the United States when they become an adult and get older and they go abroad, they have to continue to pay US taxes if they move to Norway or Dubai. Can you tell us about that?    Tom Wheelwright  29:21   Yeah, so US citizens are taxed on worldwide income as long as they're a US citizen. Here's what's really interesting in the US let's say you give up your US citizenship, you're still subject to taxes on your worldwide income for 10 years. Wow, after you give up your citizenship so you no one get any of the benefits of being a citizen. You've given that up, and you still have taxes for 10 years. Earlier this year, we did an episode, and we talked a little bit about this unrealized capital gains tax, right? People don't think, well, I'll just leave. Doesn't work that way. You're still going to have the capital gains tax for at least 10 years, and the only way to get rid of it is to give up your citizenship and wait 10 years. It's a pretty restrictive law, because most countries only tax if you live there, if you're a citizen of France, but you move to Belgium, you're taxed in Belgium, you're not taxed in France. Not true with us.    Keith Weinhold  30:19   Yeah, that's remarkable. I didn't know about that 10 year thing. Even if you renounce your citizenship, those taxes will follow you for 10 years regardless of where else in the world you live. Um, I'm just maybe this is a little bit of devil's advocate. I mean, this sounds preposterous when we first think about how Americans are taxed abroad for the rest of their life, but maybe thinking of it philosophically, if it does make sense in any way, which is really hard for me to say, but maybe it's because, okay, well, you were born and raised in the United States, where we have this very mature infrastructure and stable currency and good educational system, so you got to be a beneficiary of that. So when you're 30, you can't move away and never give us any tax money to support that. Again, what are your thoughts with that?    Tom Wheelwright  31:02   different countries have different tax systems? What I will say is, just like the state discussion, you do get a credit for taxes paid to another country. So if you have income taxes, let's say you're living in Portugal and you pay Portuguese income taxes, you're not going to pay taxes twice. You're going to pay the higher of the two rates, either the Portuguese tax rate or the US tax rate, but you should not be paying tax twice. Now, if you're going to do that, you need a really good team of tax professionals. You need a good US tax professional, and you need a good tax professional where you live, and those two tax professionals need to talk to each other on a regular basis, because otherwise you can end up paying double tax, and that is the worst of all worlds. You do not want to end up paying double tax. So make sure that just know that if you're going to invest in another country, or you're going to live in another country, you need double the tax advice.    Keith Weinhold  31:05   I am just going to speculate that there are an awful lot of people that don't consider taxes before they move, whether that's domestic or international, not that that should be the top consideration, but a lot of people probably aren't even thinking about it.    Tom Wheelwright  32:13   A lot of people aren't. That's true. Now, are there ways to reduce your taxes internationally, particularly if you're in business? Yes, there are ways that you can reduce your taxes. So know that there is still tax planning available. But I hear about people saying, I'm going to invest in the Dominican Republican, or I'm going to invest in Dubai, or I'm going to invest somewhere else. Just know that you've got now two sets of laws that you're working with you're working with US laws, and you're working with that country's laws. And so make sure that you've got good advisory on both sides. When we're talking about moving for tax considerations, we should cover Puerto Rico. Tell us about the advantageous tax laws for Puerto Rico, and if they're going to sunset, they're there for the foreseeable future. So Puerto Rico, depending on how you earn your income, you can potentially reduce your income tax rate from the current 37% rate in the US to 4% yeah, that's basically an agreement with Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is still the US, but it's got special laws that it's almost like a treaty, right? Even though it's a territory of the US. And what happens is, is that if you set it up properly, you got to live there, by the way, you can't just pretend. You got to live there six months in a day out of the year, over six months a year. And if you do, then you get a 4% tax rate on the income you earn while you're in Puerto Rico. If you earn income while you're in the mainland, you're going to pay tax on the mainland, but the income you earn in Puerto Rico, you're going to pay 4% tax. And there are certain types of income that that works for certain types of income, it doesn't just make sure that this is one where you need a Puerto Rican tax advisor as well as your US tax advisor. Capital Gains also have they have a potential tax rate of zero. So there are obviously details you have to follow again, make sure, before you get into that, know that there are huge tax benefits for living in Puerto Rico. No question. You know, it's the Puerto Rican discount. What can I say? We say in Arizona that California has a beach tax and we have a desert discount. The same was true in Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico has a Puerto Rican discount. That's what it is.    Keith Weinhold  34:24   Yeah, you're going to be getting on a plane a lot in order to go anywhere. I know an awful lot of entrepreneurs that have relocated to Puerto Rico. You do too. Tom, you the listener, probably do as well. It's really important to have the right team before you make such considerations. And before we're done today, Tom and I will talk about how you can connect with him and learn more. But Tom, since we last had you here, you updated your terrific book, which I have on my bookshelf called Tax Free Wealth. Tell us about the updates and changes you made to the book.   Tom Wheelwright  34:56   We do a new edition of tax free wealth every time there's a major change in the tax law. So the second edition was the 2017 tax law, because that was a major change. Since 2017 though we've had six major changes to the tax law, we had a bunch of major tax law changes during COVID And so what we did was we actually took the 2017 and all the new ones, werolled them all into a new edition. By far. This is the best edition of tax free wealth by a long shot. I mean, I think tax free wealth, you know, got good bones to it. It's a good book. Got almost 4005 star reviews on Amazon. This is the one I like the best, by far.   Keith Weinhold  35:18   Tax Free wealth, I read the original edition, and it's not like watching motorcycles jump off ramps, but for a tax book, it's actually really a good read there. He really brings life and some good examples to how you can permanently reduce your taxes. Tom, you and your terrific firm wealth ability have been helping people do that for years. If you the listener, want to Tom's team and Tom's referral network to help you permanently reduce your taxes. We have a resource for you atget rich education.com/taxwe can actually set up a free consultation to confirm if indeed they can help you in your situation. And Tom, why don't you talk to us some more about the importance of having the right tax pro on your team, and how they're not actually an expense, but really they're an incentive to you, because the fastest way to get an ROI is actually by reducing your taxes, because it can be done almost instantly.    Tom Wheelwright  35:36   Yeah, for sure. And what's important is that you have a relationship with a tax advisor that does give you tax advice. That's why it's called a tax advisor. They actually give you tax advice, and they willing to give it to you. And they're not waffling. They're not saying, Well, I don't know, or they're not backing off. They're saying, Well, look, if you do this, this is what you get. You have to choose whether you want to make those changes to your situation, but they're going to give you, you know, what changes you can make to your facts in order to reduce your taxes. I think the most important thing, though, is that you have a partnership with your CPA, that this is a true relationship. And we've actually changed the way we work with clients. We used to charge for projects. We used to charge for tax returns. What we want is a relationship, so we basically charge a monthly fee for the relationship. So that's a recent change in our model, you're going to see more and more CPAs go to that model, because it is a much more comfortable model for both the CPA and for the client. But what we want to do is we want to emphasize the relationship. We don't want you to feel like every time you pick up the phone, you're going to get charged. We don't want you to feel like, well, all that tax return fee is just killing me. No, it's not a tax return fee, it's a monthly fee. It's an annual fee, billed monthly, is what it is. And that way you have something come up, you don't have to worry about them and get a bill for it. You have even an IRS audit come up. Once you're a client with us for a year. After the first year, we'll then allow you to pay a small monthly fee so that when you get audited, you won't pay us for handling the audit. We call that an audit defense plan. I talk about that in tax free wealth. To me, we've been operating this way. So my firm, which I worked with people like Robert Kiyosaki, we've been operating this way for several years, and it is the best way to work with a tax advisor, because you always have that relationship, and you never have to worry. I'm not going to get this big tax bill, this big fee, like you do for an attorney, right? You don't call your attorney, because you can get a big fee, right? Every minute it's going to be a big fee. This is a great way to work with a tax advisor and make sure that you can be proactive, and they can be proactive. It's really a great way to help build the relationship over time, which is something that you're going to want to have over time again. If you want to learn more and have that free consultation, you can start at get rich education.com/tax.   Keith Weinhold  38:56   Tom, it's been valuable as always. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.    Tom Wheelwright  38:59   Thanks, Keith.   Keith Weinhold  39:06   Nine states don't have an earned income tax. Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. And the way to avoid state income tax is clearly to start by living in one of those states. I don't believe that moving to one just for tax reasons, is a good idea, though, like I was saying earlier, do you agree with how your government is spending your tax dollars? If you don't, then you owe it to yourself to reduce your tax burden, otherwise, you are just helping to fuel reckless spending. And when you lower your tax burden, not only do you stop fueling reckless spending, of course, you increase your own personal return on investment. You know in fact. This paying any more tax than you have to fuel a kleptocracy. I think it's at least worth asking the question then, because this is get rich education, little learning moments, some vocab rehab. Here, you can think of a kleptocracy as being synonymous with a fevocracy. The strict definition of a kleptocracy is a government whose corrupt leaders use political power to expropriate the wealth of the people and land they govern, typically by embezzling or expropriating government funds at the expense of the wider population. All right, well, is that a little too strong for the behavior of our elected leaders or not? I'll let you decide that. But see, most of the 1000s of pages of the US tax code does not outline the taxes that you have to pay. Did you realize that the vast majority of the IRS Code is a guidebook to help you reduce your taxes that are in those tax tables. Well, now my own tax return is hundreds of pages long, and a lot of it outlines how my taxes have been reduced for that tax year. Well, Tom's excellent book called tax free wealth is sort of a digestible way to make the reading more fun than any psycho that would read the entire IRS tax code, but to make it even easier than that, it's really a good opportunity to connect with Tom's team and see exactly how they can help you reduce your tax In your specific situation, and is especially helpful for real estate investors and business owners. You know that I often like to leave you with something actionable. You can book a free consult at getrich education.com/tax that's get richeducation.com/tax.   Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  42:06   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  42:34   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building. Get rich education.com you

Crystal takes a trip overseas back to her ancestral roots. No, Im not talking about Planet Sexy. She went to the European country where people are most likely to die of Covid AND possibly get Morgellons. Yea, the UK! While there, Crystal refers to Dublin as a country (in the UK) and has other issues with maps, trains, airlines, appliances, speaking the language and of course finds several unusual new species of morg in hotels across Europe. In domestic news, Crystal has a new caller from AZ to introduce us to who, like CC, has had morgs since 2020 and has a helluva story to tell. This is the first episode in a multipart series of her true, morgie story. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/more-morgellons/support

Welcome to episode 162 of Sports Management Podcast. Mark Hewlett is the Co-Founder of Soul Padel. Mark has a background from food retail and has worked for Lidl in the UK for many years. In 2023 he decided to start Soul Padel, after seeing its potential as a sport on the rise. Soul Padel wants to bring padel to people from all walks of life and democratize the sport and ensure all-comers can pick up a racket. We spoke about: Democratizing padel The importance of proper coach education Padel as an Olympic sport Soul Padel's partnership with Decathlon The biggest challenges in growing padel in the UK Being recruited by the government to help during Covid And much more!   Timestamps: 00:00 Intro01:00 Soul Padel 10:07 Partnership with Decathlon 19:34 Mark's Career Journey 28:08 Lessons and Advice 30:00 Outro Follow Sports Management Podcast on social media Instagram Twitter LinkedIn YouTube Sign up for the newsletter! www.sportsmanagementpodcast.com

In this episode we sail round the Horn and back again as we look into the lives, trial and mysteries of the Naussau Pirates Anne Bonny and Mary Read.  Part of Calico Jack Rackham's crew, these two dressed as men, cursed, drank, fought and killed with their pirate brethren and for two months lived completely free, a rare thing for women in the Early 1700's.  We dig into what little is known about their early lives, what led them to become pirates and how their two months as lawless pirates made them so famous they are still talked about to this day.  Laura has Covid AND the Flu, she never does anything by halves.  Arthur discusses people mocking the trans movement by identifying as helicopters and toasters and in the end, we are forced to admit that Anne Bonny disappeared sometime after she had been imprisoned on the Bahamas and we do not know how or where her life ended.  So join us for this special episode all about these two pirates and so much more in this Jolly Roger Episode of the Family Plot Podcast!Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/family-plot--4670465/support.

You're my co-host as we discuss:- the DNC's plan to get Biden on the ballot- Trump's Trial nearing a verdict- Vindication for NJ gym owners who were HAMMERED by the state during COVID- And lastly, are our kids being taught things in school they no longer need to know?

I would like to introduce you to Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills. She had a decent childhood, for the most part. She was raped and also gang raped, but as she learned to be unstoppable and gained strength from these experiences, she grew into a fierce advocate for women and then later for other marginalized groups. Her story is quite amazing. To me, the most amazing thing is that she is quite willing to share her story if it will help others. She will tell us all about her philosophy on the subject.   For a time she worked in the insurance arena and then went into other endeavors. Over the past 20 years she has been a coach, trainer and consultant to over 2,000 companies and, as she says, she has assisted countless more in various ways.   Barbara's story and life lessons demonstrate how someone can make the choice to be unstoppable. She lives in Mount Loral, NJ with her family. If you ever meet her, don't mess with her as she is quite proficient in various martial arts styles as you can read in her bio. I hope you gain wisdom and knowledge from our conversation. Barbara Anne is a gem and a wonderful person to talk with. I hope you feel the same.   About the Guest:   Barbara Anne is a “Solutions Navigator” and servant leader who has directly assisted over 2,000 businesses in the past two decades and provided training, coaching, and technical assistance to countless more companies, teams, entrepreneurs, and individuals throughout her career. She is the founder and owner of Purpose-Filled Solutions and Evolutions LLC, a business consulting and leadership coaching company that partners with people, leaders, companies, and agencies to find their "why" (core purpose), identify resources, navigate challenges, change mindsets, and develop and implement plans to achieve their visions of success, with an emphasis on civility, inclusion, equity, and diversity (CIED), her unique alternative to current DEI approaches. Barbara Anne also serves as Director of Compliance & Engagement for Cooperative Business Assistance Corporation (CBAC) in Camden, NJ, and hosts “What The Why?!? with Barbara Anne,” a weekly talk show on RVN Television, Roku, and more. Before her current roles, she served as the Management Analyst and Community Liaison for the U.S. White House Promise Zone Initiative in Camden, NJ, stationed at the U.S. Department of Housing & Urban Development (HUD), and as Supervisor of Lender Relations and Economic Development/Women's Business Ownership Representative for the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) New Jersey District Office, and in other leadership roles in the corporate, non-profit, and municipal government arenas. Barbara Anne holds an M.S. in Executive Leadership, a B.A. in Political Science/ Honors with concentrations in Pre-Law and Women's Studies, and an A.A. in Liberal Arts with a concentration in Business Communications. She has completed multiple professional designations and adult continuing education certificates, including her Professional Certified Coach (PCC) certification with the International Coaching Federation (ICF), Certified Professional Coach in Executive Coaching from RCSJ, and certifications in talent optimization and implementing Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in the workplace. Barbara Anne serves in volunteer leadership capacities with ICF's NJ Charter Chapter and Braven, and she is a member of ICF Global, the Association of Talent Development (ATD), CDFI Women's Network, and other professional and civic organizations. The National Association of Women's Business Owners (NAWBO) – South Jersey Chapter honored her with their 2016 “Women's Advocate of the Year” award.  She is also a Second-Degree Black Belt and member of the Okinawa Goju-Ryu Kenshi-Kai Karate-Jutsu Kobu-Jutsu Association and trains in multiple other martial arts styles.   ** ** Ways to connect with Barbara:   Email: info@Purposefilledsolutionsandevolutions.com Phone: 856-313-0609 Website: https://www.purposefilledsolutionsandevolutions.com/  Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bgardenhiremills/ Purpose-Filled Solutions & Evolutions' Social Media Links Through LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/purposefilledcoach "What The Why?!? with Barbara Anne" On-Demand: https://rvntelevision.com/tv-show/what-the-why/        About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, and hello, once again. Welcome to unstoppable mindset. I'm your host, Michael Hingson. Or you can call me Mike, it's okay. Just Oh, I hate to do the joke, just not late for dinner. But anyway, here we are. And today we get to talk with Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills. Barbara Ann is in New Jersey has an interesting story and things that she's doing as a coach and other work that she is doing. And also, I'm going to give it away and she'll talk about it anyway. Barbara has had a couple of bouts with COVID. And actually just got through with one but she has a lot of wisdom about long COVID And actually already and just talking with her before we started this I learned some things I didn't know. And knowledge is always useful thing to have. So Barbara Anne welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 02:12 Thank you so much. I am super happy and honored to be asked to be your guest today. I'm really looking forward to our conversation.   Michael Hingson ** 02:23 Well, then we ought to have one right. So tell me about maybe the the younger barber and growing up and all that let's start there. It's always good as they say to start at the beginning somewhere.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 02:34 Yes. Start at the beginning. So younger Pribram was born in the late 60s to Maryland and Joseph, a biracial couple. So when my parents got married, still wasn't even legal in some states. And I was born right here in New Jersey, Jersey girl my whole life. And my my five foot three Caucasian mom and my six foot three. Black dad, African American reef. Yeah, they met when they were in college. And while my mother's family was very, very not in any way any color in the family tree has recently improved by one to three me my father's family was always very integrated. And I was the first of four children. My mother and dad had me and my sister exactly 16 months apart on purpose. I think that's insane. I can't even imagine doing that these days. And, and then there was three other siblings that would come along the way. One of whom died shortly after birth because of complications. And it was interesting. I grew up in an apartment complex that wasn't then but is now officially designated as what you would call affordable housing. And a small little, I never thought of it as rural growing up, but they call it rural. It was Vineland, New Jersey. Ah, and it actually is the biggest city in the state of New Jersey in terms of land size, all 69 square miles of it. And but definitely in southern New Jersey. And this is at a time when a lot of the highways and systems that exist now didn't even exist in its parts of South Jersey. And it was like its own whole other world. Anybody who has any familiarity with North and South Jersey knows how vastly different the two are the right down to the accents. And you know, we you know, had a good upbringing, the Things were going well, when it's time for me to go to school, because of the time that it was was you talking about early 70s, I was bussed as part of a program to make sure that they were, you know, equally distributing children aka schools. Which was really interesting. When back in the days before there was cell phones, in fact, my parents had a party line. They accidentally put me on the wrong bus. That was fun when you're in kindergarten. Yeah. But probably one of the earliest tragic things that would happen to me what happened when I was seven. And it's interesting, because I, my mom said, I've always been a forward planner, I've always been very rational, but also very even tempered. And she likes to tell stories about how you know, at a time when I was 14 months, I spilled a bowl of popcorn and I sat there at 14 months old, individually picking up each piece of kernel of corn and putting it back in the bowl. And when I was when I started walking it at nine months, and around 1112 months, we were out walking, and I saw a dandy line and I bent over and I pulled it up, I had no idea that would kill it. I picked it up and I sniffed it, and proceeded to put it right back in its exact place where it was. And so all these years later, she still loves to tell that story because I was very methodical and particular and had my routines and my processes. And then 10 days before Christmas, just after my seventh birthday, my father was killed in a car accident. And here was my mother, at the age of 28, widowed with four biracial children, the oldest of whom was seven and the youngest of whom was only had just been born on October 27. And that would be one of many pivots, in terms of that would define my future going forward. Okay, how   Michael Hingson ** 07:09 did you how did your parents, your, your grandparents deal with you? Maybe at the beginning, you said that they on your mom's side, we're not really oriented toward having biracial or any color in the family did that mollify at all especially towards you as you grow older,   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 07:30 not till I was much older. In fact, when my dad died, my grandfather, who was an Episcopal priest, refused to let my grandmother even can be with my mother, her grieving daughter, because as far as he was concerned, she was dead to him.   Michael Hingson ** 07:51 I have just never comprehended, of course, I've been blind my whole life, baby. And I regard it as a blessing. But I've just never understood this whole issue of color, and skin color having any significance to anything. It's just crazy. But   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 08:09 for the most part, it wasn't even a thing until the mid 1800s. In terms of, you know, I can't think of his name right now, because I'm coming off of my long COVID relapse, but a British scientist, was the one who kind of artificially constructed and classified race. Yeah. And there were a number of people, including Alexander Graham Bell, who bought into some of those theories. Yeah. And but before that, it really was just more of a familial designation, in terms of what country you are from and royalty was royalty. So they intermixed all the time. You know, there was how we understand things now really, are an artificial construct, which is one of the foundational pieces of what I do in my work as it relates to civility, inclusion and equity and diversity. But in that time, my grandmother didn't come my aunt didn't come they were in Florida. My dad's family. My dad was the youngest of six and he was a sports person he had played for the Eagles, arm team and he played basketball and everybody knew who he was. And his family stepped up and stepped in by her family was non existent. I would finally meet her sister a few years after that, and we have a good relationship. I only ever met my one uncle on her side once and I have a necklace that's handed down to my mother was. Her maiden name was aptly As in former Prime Minister Attlee of England, and so they were very particular, he was very much. Interestingly, it was almost bad that he married my grandmother. He was very much a white Anglo Saxon Protestant male, who married my mother's mother, my grandmother, credibly beautiful woman, her name was Ruth Fogarty. And like, parents off the boat Irish, her dad was an Irish house in New Orleans. And, and they had three children, and my mother was the oldest of them. And so dad wasn't so thrilled and dad ruled the household. And I finally met my grandmother right before I turned 12, because there's a family necklace that's handed down through the Fogarty family line to the to the oldest female on their 12th birthday. And so she was permitted to come see us and, and transfer that to me. And then right around the time I turned 16, my grandfather decided to have a change of heart, and that he was wrong. And I would meet him a couple of times between 16 and 19. And then when I was 19, he passed us was very awkward, I agreed to go to the funeral for my mother. But that was probably actually one of the biggest fights we ever had to because I had very strong feelings about being forced to go and mourn someone that had done, what I now understood had been the things that he had done over the course of her life in mind. But I, you know, she she said, incredible person. So my mother, who I'm I've ever been, I don't know who it is, but I don't like she tends to be much more private. She watches everything I do. But I don't usually name her for her own privacy reasons. You know, she would raise all four of us on her own, she never remarried, she went back to school, because she dropped out when she married my dad, and then had me, you know, urina. She got married in February of 67. They had me in mid November of 68. So she decided to go back to school, she completed her associate's then her Bachelor's than her Master's. And she went on to teach at the college where she got her nursing degree. And all of that joined the military before age 40, to become a nurse. And for the US Army, reserve corps, so she did a lot of really amazing things on her own, with me, helping out along the way, as the oldest child. So I learned to do a lot of things very young, that I probably wouldn't really be able to do now, in terms of watching siblings, cooking and cleaning, and things like that, but things that were otherwise really common at the time. And another big part of our lives was the church that we raised in. And because the whole family, my dad's family, was involved on both sides, my family were involved in the clergy, but the brother and cousins that we were most close to, went to the church where we went to and so they became a huge support system for my mom. And in a very interesting indoctrination process for me, that I would spend the better part of my teens and early 20s trying to undo. So that's the very early I, you know, we went to a private Christian school on scholarship. And when my mom graduated, they said no more scholarships. So I went to public high school, and did really well. You know, but I felt like I had been kind of thrown into this weird alternative universe where I had been used to being one of the only children of color in an entire school. And now I was in a school that was pseudo integrated. Different kids tended to be tracked based on their intelligence, but also, in part based on their socioeconomic status and, and race. And on my very first day, when I went to go in with the few kids that I didn't know, into the school cafeteria, I was stopped at the door and I was told that only the white kids ate in there, I had to go to the other cafeteria with the black and Spanish kids. And I was like, what, what are you talking about? And they were like, You eaten here. And that that was not something that my high school fixed for almost another 15 years when they finally decided to assign cafeterias, and eliminate a lot of staff. But other than that, I did choir, I did drama, I did all the things that I loved to learn, had its really great friends. And then couldn't afford to go to college. Now that my mom was working, I didn't get enough aid, and I wanted to be a doctor. And so I ended up getting just enough grants to go to community college. And then I went to work full time, and we went to school full time at nights. I went to work for Prudential insurance company, and they paid 90% tuition reimbursement. And I worked there in policyholder services, answering questions for agents for 10 states. Here I was, you know, the ages of 1819 20 ensiling complex insurance questions back when everything was in these little books, we would have to pull the pages out. And to replace them to update them. We covered all of New England and most of the East Coast with the exception of New Jersey and Massachusetts along scope   Michael Hingson ** 16:36 guard. So this was like 1987 88. Yes, exactly.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 16:40 8788 89. And, and then one of the next major pivotal things in my life happens. Having been raised in a very fundamentalist religion, I had never been involved in any kind of a sexual relationship. And I got raped. And what was interesting about it, other than the fact that it was pretty bad and it was somebody I knew, I got angry. And that's, that pivoted me into advocacy. And I became a speaker. I spoke on college campuses, I spoke at my high school. I was like, oh, no, no, no, this is never going to happen to another woman. Right? Yeah. This is just not okay. And, and then I had this whole world of advocacy opened up for me. And it's funny, I'll never forget, I ended up changing my major. Because my political science class and my sophomore year of college, the professor has put a list of all of these different characteristics. He said, Well, what describes a typical politician and he was what in New Jersey, we now call commissioners, but back then we called them freeholders freeholders held land. And we put all these characteristics on a board of what a typical politician is. And he said, Georgia class, he said, Okay, everybody, if you aren't, at least, almost all of them, if not all of these, you never, ever, ever have a chance of holding any kind of high office or elected office in government. And I looked at him in my stereotypical, defiant way, when somebody says I can't do something, and said, Oh, really. And I changed my major to political science that week. And I would later tell him after I graduated from political science honors from what is now Rowan University, with concentrations in pre law and Women's Studies. I would eventually tell him go back and tell him that he was the reason why I changed my major. And he was just so blown away. He's like, Oh, wow, I'm so odd. Really told him why. And guess what, like many politicians, he ended up having an affair with a staffer and losing his his seat and his wife in the process. So I guess he was so much more like, far too many prostitutions back then, than what was listed on the board.   Michael Hingson ** 19:31 Do as I say, not as I do.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 19:35 When I go ahead, no, go ahead. I was gonna say when I finished college, though, my first job right out of college. As I had left Prudential to go back full time to finish, which was good because by the time I got done Prudential no longer existed. They had moved their job offices to Jacksonville and have the office that I would have worked at had I stayed there like so many people said I should. Of course they He told me he really shouldn't leave this great job. And I said, Okay, really well watch me. And so again, I answered an ad in the newspaper. And I ended up going to work for the city of Bridgeton, in my field, actually working for the city in a new role for called the Community Development Block Grant sub recipient monitor. And my job was to create the infrastructure for monitoring funds from a community development block grants that were distributed to organizations in the community as a whole host of other things. And that was the beginning in 1992, of my 31 year career, other than one, brief six year return to insurance after having my son, my otherwise 31 year career in community and economic development.   Michael Hingson ** 20:59 So you got married along the way?   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 21:02 I did, but not yet. I stayed for a while. Yeah. Which is a really great question. I, I just wasn't ready. Yeah, I, I was in this I was in this weird world of, I was too white for most black boys. I was too dark for most white boys. I was not Latina. But that was what I was most often mistaken for, because of my skin tone and where I grew up. And, and I was often just a novelty, somebody wanted to be able to say that they had tried being with a black girl. And in 2012, when I was 23 years old, that culminated actually, in a second, much more serious rape scenario with a guy that I had been seeing. Who knew about the first one, we'd had conversations about the fact that his sister had been through something similar. And then myself and a friend went to a party at his house, and they, I didn't even drink, because I didn't want to be in that situation. And yet, I felt like I was drunk. And it didn't. We didn't talk about things like being date rape drugs, and things like that. But yeah, it was, it was bad. And I remember bits and pieces, and they were just kind of joking that they all wanted to know what it was like to be with a black girl. And, um, so I was very protective of myself in many ways for many years. And when I met my husband, I was in a, I was long distance seeing someone he was seeing somebody else, we could care less. And then we would be reintroduced a couple years later. And I was at a point where I was like, I just not I can't get involved with. I've had all these bad experiences with white guys and black guys. I just know, I was seeing a guy from Puerto Rico at the time. And as my husband likes to say, he just had to convince me that he was the only thing missing from my life. So he did what every other guy who wants to be with somebody does, he became a really good friend. And then we would end up finally getting married three years after our first date, which was a disaster, by the way, because our first date was literally the day of the very first Million Man March. Oh, and I said to him, What were you thinking we had ended up getting into a political conversation and realized we were about as diametrically opposed as one could be. And that's what he thought about. What was he thinking when he asked out a young black urban professional, he said he didn't know because he didn't realize I was black. He thought I was lucky not then. And then one of the jokes of that evening that still gets repeated to this day, I said, oh, and I suppose you haven't marched? And I suppose you've marched in a militia too. And he says, well, not lately. Now he was he had been on the north on a Civil War reenactment militia militia, but my husband would really appreciate your sense of humor. So no, in spite of that disastrous first date, next month, we will have been married for 25 years and together for 28. Any he was so everything I was not looking for at the time, which is probably exactly why it worked because I after all of those other experiences I had decided to find out. And we did, we got married. And, in fact, I was executive director of a nonprofit housing organization at the time, and it was selling, it's celebrating its 25th anniversary. So we postponed our talk about understanding guy, he's always supported me and said, You go be you. We actually postponed our honeymoon, so that we could get the anniversary banquet and celebration out of the way, and then go on our honeymoon without having that hanging over our heads. So he knew what kind of person he was getting together with. And he was he was fine with that. And so yeah, and we would go on, and I would have, we would have one son. And that was another pivot. This year, I was, at this point, I'm now running an organization that the nonprofit that I was with helped start, I'm used to like going around the country, and conducting training classes in housing counseling, and homeownership education for housing counselor is for the federal government on going all these great places. And then along comes this son, who God purposefully gave me to prove I have absolutely no control over anything. I remember Oh, my gosh, it was it was something else. And remember, and of course, you know, being a slightly older mom, at this point, I'm 33. Having a geriatric pregnancy just didn't sound right. At all, I'm like, Oh, my God, I've I've tested I'm sitting there in tears one day, like, how is it that I could testify and in front of the state legislature and congressional hearings that I can't get this kid to go to sleep? What is wrong?   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 27:10 got through it. I went back to the insurance industry. took a pause. 911 happened. I remember you. I remember seeing interviews with you on Larry King. And you know, one of the reasons why we chose our son's name, Colin, which is, the original Greek word for courage was after that happened, because we had, as you probably I know, you can relate based on having heard your story. I worked in Trenton and so there were people, a lot of people would commute by train. So someone I grew up with was lost. Very, very close friend of ours, his cousin was lost. But then there were other people that were actually supposed to be there that I was friends with, for various reasons that, like interviews were cancelled. A friend of mine who worked in Jersey City was supposed to cross over to work for Wall Street Journal, he was supposed to be there that morning, it got postponed to that afternoon. So many people that had so many close brushes. And so Colin seemed like a really good name. And, but it also drastically affected our funding as a nonprofit, because all the organizations where we were basically redirected already committed funds to World Trade Center efforts. And which is why to this day, I'm still firmly believe in cash accounting, and not the cruel accounting. And I went back into the insurance industry for six years. And it was fun. And I was underwriting manager for a company here in New Jersey. And and then, we unmerged with our parent company merged with another company and a whole bunch of changes started happening. And I ended up going through my next major pivot. I decided to leave a role where I was having a lot of difficulty with someone who was actively sabotaging my work. And so I decided to take a lateral move left a team of 19, several of whom were in extreme tears to help go create another department. And that behavior continued constant, what we would now call bullying but there was no such thing as bullying in the workplace. Right? And that would culminate in him. physically assaulting me on the job in a conference room full of leaders in front of witnesses. And he herniated all the discs in my neck. And what was really interesting about that is all of the other things that I had been through. They were emotional, and it was easy to recover. But the physical injury that I went in for a while I, my neck got everything swelled up so much I couldn't walk, I couldn't feel my feet. I couldn't function it was was incredibly painful. All of my C spine discs, were either damaged or bulged. And you would think, with so many people having witnessed it, it would be a no brainer, he would get fired. That's not what happened. Yeah, I was gonna ask. Yeah. That's not what happened at all. I would later find out through notes that he was giving a an a one time final warning, but this person had had a history of inappropriate behavior. And everybody would just chalk it up as to being that person. And so he had been there 20 years I had been there, three, and they decided that I was the one that needed to go. And they did what we used to call an insurance terms and other corporate terms called circle the wagons, protect their jobs. And that got ugly, very, very ugly. And Lisa Halloran was my hero. She was my, she taking the job was supposed to be a director was downgraded to a manager, which then downgraded me from management to consultant. And so she had only been there six months when this happened, she had transferred from another office. And in full integrity, she stood by me. Even when she personally was threatened, she stood by me. One point, she was told by the Vice President, I'm trying to save our jobs, you need to get in line. And she said, I would rather lose my job and be able to sleep at night, and do what you're asking me to do. And fortunately, for me, even though that left knee permanently partially disabled, I was able to find specialists, they did pay for one disc to be replaced. I did, New Jersey has binding arbitration, and the company pays for it. So there's not really much of an incentive for a binding arbitrator to actually rule in the favor of an employee. And they had argued in court that assaults were not not considered eligible for arbitration, but then tried to argue, in arbitration, that assaults belonged in court and the judge saw right through it and sent them all and joined everybody together, inviting arbitration and what was interesting is they lost. Wow, they lost and what what the ruling basically was was that the assault aside the way I was treated, including having ignored blatantly and openly admitted to ignoring their own grievance procedures process, that they had made a bad situation worse. And the funny thing is, then they then filed an appeal. At which point the arbitrator scathingly said, what part of binding arbitration Didn't you understand when you asked for binding arbitration? And they would eventually shut down all New Jersey operations. I, there's lots of rumors, I won't speculate. But yeah, almost everybody lost their jobs, all the way up to the top, including the New Jersey president. And I went back into government nonprofit work, and that's where I've been ever since.   Michael Hingson ** 34:26 You know, it's the insurance industry is a fascinating place. The reason I said early on that you joined in the insurance world in 1987 1988. Something like seven years before around 1980, maybe 1979. Probably 1980. Somebody in the National Federation of the Blind, which is the largest consumer organization of blind people, was at a meeting of insurance people Sitting next to a person from Prudential and said to this person, I think it also had to do with the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, but anyway said, you know, insurance companies won't provide life insurance for people who are blind. And this guy said, Yeah. And the person who I knew said, Well, why don't you do everything that you do based on evidence to actuarial statistics and evidentiary data? And you have mathematical models for everything? And the guy said, Well, absolutely. That's how we make all of our decisions. And my friends said, Well, can we see the evidence that says that blind people are a higher risk? And the guy said, Sure, no problem. Six months went by, without any indication that there was anything. And finally my friend said, so where's the evidence? And the guy from Prudential said, Well, we were working on it. We haven't found it yet, but it's there. And my friend said, you don't have any do you? You have been discriminating against blind people and other persons with disabilities is it eventually expanded. But you've been doing that simply based on prejudice, and a mistaken belief that we're a higher risk without any evidence to show for it. And on the other end, we as blind people know, we're not a higher risk. Well, what that eventually led to was a campaign in every State of the Union at the time, I was living in Massachusetts. So I ran the effort for the state of Massachusetts for the National Federation of blind in Massachusetts. But to get every state to pass a law that said, you can't discriminate against blind or other persons with physical disabilities, unless you can provide actuarial statistics or or evidentiary data. And to this day, of course, no one's been able to because it doesn't exist. Yeah. It wasn't scientific at all. It was prejudice. Yep.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 37:00 Absolutely. Absolutely. And my husband had worked in that industry for a while. And yeah, and it both in the life insurance, but also in health and also in property and casualty. To be honest, at one point from in 95, and 96, I had gone back to insurance company, because I was recruited from a nonprofit specifically to help with a pilot program where they were reentering the urban environment to because they had stopped insuring in most cities, urban environments, because of flat roofs, and the fire risk that they support that they had. And my boss, an amazing person, his name was, Andre Howell had conceived of this idea that if we worked with people to help mitigate risk, we think that they'll actually perform well. And he was right. And we worked in a very specific target targeted neighborhood of Philadelphia, and offered like free inspections, and all kinds of things. And, and part of my job was to track the performance of that. Now, this was for all state at the time, and I will name them because at that time, they had lost more money in Hurricane Andrew than they had made in the history of the company. Yeah. And this is a program that they would eventually roll out across all the states. And I had been serving on the National Insurance Task Force which dealt with access, availability, and affordability, affordability of insurance and regional or in a metropolitan as well as rural areas, because there's a big issue with rural areas too. But interestingly, a division of theirs decided not long after I got there that they were going to start mass canceling and a non renewing policies in the state of New Jersey. And the actuarial logic behind it was they looked at all of the people who had had not an accident, apparently you get an accident every five years, they looked at all the people who had not had an accident within a five year period determined that they were due and decided that they were going to use a loophole in a tooth what was called the two for one law. For every two g non renewed you could take one new customer and they just started, guess what group hasn't had a car accident within a five year timeframe. Disabled people, seniors and those who only use vehicles for pleasure use. So here I was in the government relations divisions of a company whose state subsidiary was mass, non renewing disabled and non working individuals. We had agents that were losing clients like 90 a week, and of course, those individuals were taking other business with them, I've never. And this is on the heels of them having gotten in trouble because somebody had made a very inappropriate comment about why they wouldn't cover repairs to a property for a same sex couple. So it was a rough period for them that they would eventually overcome. But really just, that was some of the eye opening for me in terms of why my advocacy needed to be so much broader than just around women. So   Michael Hingson ** 40:28 is that what sort of really led you into dealing with the whole issue of inclusion and equity and so on?   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 40:36 Yes, because I had now at this point, I had worked. in Bridgeton, I had worked in Cherry Hill Township, I had worked in Camden, I had worked in Philadelphia, looking at all of this, I'm seeing all this happening, I'm looking at people use numbers in ways that they should never have to use them because they had their own proprietary insurance score. And I had to know that model. So I had to know what went into it, so I could teach it. And I realized that the problem was so much bigger than even the different things that I had in my life that were intersectional in terms of being a female being a woman of color, you know, I wasn't even dealing with the disability yet at that point. And, but just other things, and, and hearing the way people would talk about people, as groups and status as individual human beings.   Michael Hingson ** 41:34 You know, it's, oh, go ahead.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 41:36 No, go ahead.   Michael Hingson ** 41:37 It's amazing, just how, as I said, Before, people do as I say, not as I do, how people behave, you know, and most people don't think about their own disabilities, all of you who have eyesight, and I've said it several times on this podcast, have a disability as well, your light dependent, just wait till the power goes out in the building, and you got to go off and try to scrounge for a flashlight or a smartphone. The thing is that, because so many people think that eyesight is really the only game in town, our society collectively, has worked really hard to make light on demand, a fact of life everywhere. And so we've spent basically 145 years developing this technology to make light on demand available, pretty much in a ubiquitous sort of way. So most of the time, you have light on demand until you don't like when I was in a hotel in March. And I've seen it other times since then, before being a building and settling, the power goes out and people start to scream and they don't know what to do. And the fear comes in, and I'm sitting there going so what's the problem? The the issue is, you guys are light dependent. And the reality is disability should not mean a lack of ability, because it's not. Disability is a characteristic that every single person on the planet has. And what we need to truly understand and do is to recognize that the characteristic manifests itself in different ways for different people. It doesn't mean it's not there. So let light cover up your disability, but you still have it. And you can say all day long, you don't. But you do. But but we're too arrogant sometimes to really address that and deal with it. And it's so unfortunate, when that happens so much in our world today. But but the fact is, that's that's the way it is. And so I talk about it, probably more than some people would like on the podcast, because I want the message to be heard by everyone. That disability does not mean lack of ability, and everyone has that characteristic in one way or another. For my part.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 43:51 Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no, I was gonna say AB so lute Li and I loved hearing you talk about it, on the podcast that I listened to in the speeches that I listened to. Because disability disabled individuals are among some of the most discriminated individuals in this country. And that's planet. And, you know, when you were talking about what happened to you as a child in terms of what the doctors told your parents, you know, a lot of people don't realize that in this country in this country, till as recently as 1979. They were sterilizing women to keep certain women from being able to reproduce, because it will pollute the gene pool with disabled disability character, and   Michael Hingson ** 44:37 there were courts who backed that up. Yes. And supported eugenics like that. Yes, exactly.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 44:43 And so, you know, I mean, depending on it had I didn't born in a different state, God knows what would have happened. Yeah. But you know, in California was one of the biggest ones. And, you know, a lot of people don't know that because we don't talk About those parts of our history, but whether I was paying attention, I'm really good at listening. And I realized that it's naturally human beings tend to want to group things. They all want to be seen as individuals, but they want to put everybody else in groups. And you could say, you know, people talk about, you know, different immigrants being stupid. I'm sorry, How many languages do you speak? Because they may be struggling in English. But most, most people I know, who have immigrated here know at least one if not five, or six. My Spanish is terrible got Mexico, to for my honeymoon. I mean, people who have all these diverse people, we are all wonderfully and perfectly made, depending on whether or not you believe in God, we've written to flee imperfectly made in God's image. Yeah. And if the Bible says God makes no mistakes, who are we to think that any one else is any less? More superior, less, less superior? Or that we're more superior than anyone else?   Michael Hingson ** 46:19 Well, except that in Oh God, George Burns said that he made a mistake, because he made avocado pits too large. Yeah. Oh, my God to sneak that one in.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 46:34 Which is funny, though, only. But   Michael Hingson ** 46:37 I hear exactly what you're saying. The fact of the matter is, and kids especially I was talking with someone earlier today. And we were we were doing another interview, and we were talking about children and growing up and how kids are, are fun loving, they are full of adventure. And they don't have all of these agendas. And it's so unfortunate that we teach this in so many ways to children, and they grow up with these these horrible attitudes to a large degree, and there's no need for it. Children aren't evil. But we make them that way.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 47:17 Well, we could say that about a lot of things, right? I mean, a thing is a thing. It's, it's how we use it. Now, children are born a blank slate, it's what we write on it. Right. And the younger, we can undo that the better. And which is a huge part of you know, you know, like I said, my third pivot was was my most recent pivot after going to grad school. Because I was determined, I was going to get that master's degree before I turned 50. And then getting long COVID. I was like, Okay, you're still here. What are you going to do with this? And I said, well, since grad school, I've been talking about it, because here I am this black female who's been, you know, the first list the first you know, first black female here at first black female there because I was lighter skin, I was palpable, which gets into a whole other issue. And I didn't say quote, unquote, sound black or growing up, the black kids would say your family talks white. Half of my family is white, all my cousins are all interracial. That was my way my dad's family was three possible shade. So it was just normal to me. But then in the post Obama era, it was a little bit more normalized. For a while, oh, if I had $1 for every time somebody said, Oh, she speaks so well. I'd be very, very rich. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 48:45 if I had $1, for every time somebody said, you're amazing. And of course, what they're really saying is, especially for a blind person, you know.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 48:53 And so after getting COVID, and realizing I was still here, and seeing the spotlight shine on all things that were broken with our health care system, and then some, for anybody who was a person of color, who had an existing disability. Some of the things that I experienced. I actually had to I was like, Mom, you deal with the hospital, you're a nursing professor, you're Caucasian. They're not listening to me. You just deal with it, because they're not listening to me. Because there's so many of us continue to have to deal with ongoing symptoms before anybody would acknowledge that that was a real thing. The and so many people who are in the disability community, we're right in there with us. We're all in there together finding each other and social media and Facebook groups, because no one would listen to us. Mm. That's when I was like, Okay, it's, you're still here, you're here for a reason, it's time to get vocal about everything that's broken in this country about how we treat each other in general. And as the person of color in many organizations back when it was still called affirmative action. And having been part of integrating teams and corporate and government agencies, and seeing the narrative shift. Over the years, I was already getting concerned. And then when everybody was exposed to what so many of us knew, in the death of George Floyd and others, while everybody else said, Okay, stand up, this is a time for celebration, people are finally going to live, learn, change is going to happen, companies are issuing pledges everywhere, we're finally going to get the change that's been coming. And me, I'm on a webinar, still in very deep throes of long COVID with massive cognitive issues. And I said, here's my concern. And I meant to say backlash. I said, the black lashes coming. And that stuck. I see, I see, give it time. People know, when things aren't authentic. People know, when change is being shoved down their throat, people don't like being told that they're responsible for things that they didn't have happen. And saying, Now, you know, how it feels to be me is not the right response for that. And people started reading books about anti racism and all these things I said, I'm telling you, and then I repeat it, I said, I'm gonna keep using the word the black lashes coming since 2021, on record in a webinar. And now we have what we're seeing in Florida, and other states, and book burnings, and Supreme Court decisions. And all of these things as the pendulum swings back from one side to the other. And companies are eliminating diversity, equity inclusion programs, and people are leaving this fairly new kind of practice, for lack of better words. I mean, they've been, it's been slowly been evolving from diversity, diversity, inclusion, diversity, equity. And, and I've been saying for eight years, we're doing it all wrong. doing it all wrong. At no point, in over 20 years, if I ever brought a new hire into a situation without first addressing what needed to be addressed in house to create the environment that would make it possible for them to succeed, we should be doing it differently. And then, of course, after my assault, I was like, we have a serious civility issue. Just in terms of me, you can only legislate how people treat each other so much. But we have serious civility issues going on in workplaces that aren't being addressed, for all of the wrong reasons, across different groups. And it's time that we get our houses in order in terms of civility, then focus on creating the inclusive environment that it should be, then look at the equity issues within that environment, then you bring in the diversity hires that you want to bring in to help your company capitalize on the 30% return on investment that most companies that are diverse actually experience when they are run properly. In a truly, you know, culture add way, and then everybody can succeed. Otherwise, they're just hiring somebody that person comes in, they can't function, they quit. Everybody throws up their hands and says, Oh, well, we tried it didn't work, move on.   Michael Hingson ** 53:46 Tell me about purpose, build solutions and evolutions, if you would.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 53:49 Sure. It's a purpose built solutions and evolutions while I was in grad school, and I've been doing coaching internally and externally, since 1997. And I was asked, in grad schools, what as part of one of my classes to come up with a two or three word way to describe what I am from a professional standpoint. And I described myself as a Resource Navigator. And because so many of my roles involved, either giving the answers or putting people into the direction where they could find the answers. And so I had been doing everything that you're not supposed to do as a business as a side hustle. And Maryam with long COVID I go ahead, I finally get my international coaching Federation certification that I've been putting off for 12 years. And my coach says, When you get to start a business, you've helped like 1000s of others when you can actually do it yourself. And I figured, okay, so put was filled solutions and evolutions was originally going to be purpose filled solutions and evolutions navigators. But I've refiled the service mark to drop the the navigators, even though I still use it. Solutions navigator was already taken. So I was like, well, everything I do is coaching around the purpose. Once your why what is your core purpose? I know mine, mine is helping others figure out theirs, and then achieve it. And after about three weeks of analysis, paralysis, and finally settled on purpose built solutions, and evolutions, a company that would offer the coaching that I had been doing, but also capitalize on my years of experience in various leadership roles, from supervisor up to Executive Director, as well as my Masters of Science and executive leadership and all that I had learned in grad school with a big focus on fixing what I felt was broken with what I call civility, inclusion, equity and diversity. And my company's turned to in June. And I have a team of consultants that support me, and a young woman that I hired from a program that I served as a leadership coach in breathe and shout out to Braven, which is a fellowship program for college students. I brought her in as an intern, and then hired her as my team. And she was a young woman who came here at the age of three, as part of her parents trying to escape Mexico. And she's DACA. And she's going through the citizenship process. And she couldn't find a job in the DEI space. And so we after a number of things, I asked her apologize for the parking. After a number of meetings, I asked her, Okay, we've had all these conversations about what I feel is wrong with the tape all of the information that I gave you, and then I want you to go and I want you to research and I want you to come back and tell me how you would redo my inclusion, equity and diversity program. And she came back. And she said, I think we need to start with mental health and physical disabilities. So this young woman who herself was an immigrant, who had was given carte blanche to look at everything that we should be looking at as part of a program that focuses on inclusion, equity and diversity, had every reason to throughout her life to come back with any number of options. And that's what she came back with. And I said, Okay, would you like a job as consultant? And how would you like to help me take take the lead and developing this program, and that's how paving the way to civility, inclusion, equity and diversity was born. Wow.   Michael Hingson ** 58:09 Well, that is pretty cool. And, and you're even making enough to pay her and everything, huh?   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 58:14 I am. That's a blessing. Unfortunately, it works out she's she's part time consultant. She just had her and her husband just had their second baby. And she's on maternity leave right now. But we did our first official full public offering of the program in June, it was very well received, people were blown away. They learned things, of course, that they were never taught and about everything from how the messages are even being manipulated to you know, you know why it's so important to see every person as an individual being and someone who I love Louis Brandeis Griggs was the one who I stole the spelling of it from because I would always say people want to be human beings. And he would always capitalize the B E. In being and so paving the way to civility, inclusion, equity and diversity, a new way of be in, in workplace and in life is our our most comprehensive flagship training program, who   Michael Hingson ** 59:24 have been some of the people who had the most influence on you as you're going through life.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 59:31 My mom obviously has been one. I mentioned a couple of Lisa Halloran who stood by me when she had everything to risk. I have to ride or die. Best Friend's one. Unfortunately. Kathy Jagger passed actually. It'll be here next week. She was also a rape survivor and we met when I was 19. She was a little bit older too. She was 32. And we bonded and she was my best friend and mentor in so many different ways. She was the reason I went to work at Prudential. We went through all kinds of things together. And you know, she will she I referred to her as one of the greatest loves of my life. And the other one, her name is Maria Callahan, Cassidy, who she relocated to an amazing new position at Richmond University only weeks before Kathy passed. So I lost I fortunately didn't lose Maria, it's, it's hard because she's not here. But these are both people that I've known since my teens and have definitely shaped who I am. My son, actually, I've learned so much from him. My son is neurodiverse. He likes to say he's not on the spectrum. He broke the spectrum. Well, that's can and and, and he is hysterical and funny and incredibly talented and incredibly brilliant. And helping navigate the public schools where we live. And watching him continue to still get back up even when he was pushed down. Because in our school district, if you are not in the box, you're basically out of luck. So we had to get an attorney for our son when he was only in third grade, to fight for his rights, and the he knows himself. And really, his biggest challenge is he has something called dysgraphia. He can recite things verbatim, but you could give him that same thing to copy, and he struggles to copy it. And that was a very difficult educational experience for him. But now he's a mechanic, he's training to be a mechanic, he wants to own his own mechanic shop, he has a lovely girlfriend, Collins girlfriend is Ariel, they've been together since they were 14 and 16. And now they are 19 and 21. Going on 20 and 22. And she is the daughter I would have chosen. I call her the daughter I got to choose. And I've learned so much because of her a lot of her upbringing is very similar to mine, they say we've we're very careful to make sure it doesn't get weird. But they say you end up with somebody very similar to your parent. Ariel and I have definitely have a lot in common and and then I would be remiss if I didn't say my husband because even though we have a definitely have our different political beliefs. He has really just unleashed me. He, one thing he stands very firm on is equal pay for women after watching some of the experiences that I go through and he is constantly up, go do it. You got to do this, you got to speak up up, you've been offered a show. I should mention Joe Cole, Antonio, my coach, she is the one who did push me off the cliff to get my show by saying I'm booking you on a local talk show. So that you have two weeks, you have a couple of weeks to get ready to go announced your business is finally open. That's the other reason why purpose filled solutions and evolutions came in. But these are some really all unique but very interesting teachers in my life. So   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:36 tell me really quickly if you would about your talk show.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:03:39 My talk show was an offshoot of Joe pushing me off the cliff, ironically, and we joke because Joe is my husband. But Joe is my coach and also probably one of my closest friends at this point. To Joe to Joe's once God wants J O. And Jo booked me on this talk show called Morning Coffee and gave me a couple of weeks. She said I know you can incorporate a business within 72 hours. I've seen you do it. You're going to do it. And so sure enough, on July 2 of 2021, I went in there. My business was two weeks old. And I announced and introduced myself and my one intern to the world. Somebody else who my son's girlfriend and told them about what I was looking to do and how I was going to change the world and the narrative and be a coach and offer services that I couldn't offer in my day job. And they came back to me and said the response to your episode was so amazing. Do you want to do a show? I was like, I was like I've always been the person on answering the questions or writing for government officials who are answering the questions. I've never been on that side of the mic. They said, Well, what do you think I said, Let me think about it. And I was originally going to call my blog, what the why? Kind of like instead of WTF, WT w. And I said, I have an idea. If you give me full control over who my guests are, would you be interested in doing a show called What the Why, and it would be conversations with diverse leaders from all walks of life, all races, genders, disabilities, ages, and I would interview them about what their purpose in life was and how they figured it out. And the station manager said, huh, yeah, let's do it. And so right now I'm on a brief hiatus because the station is in the middle of a move, but I'm in my second season. Of what the why with barber and and I have, I'm hoping to have you on in like, third season because you are so friggin awesome. And not because you're blind. You're just freaking awesome. Period. You just amazing. I'm completely and utterly amazing. But I have interviewed the smallest of businesses. My oldest guests had been in their 80s. My youngest recently was eight. He is a he's a math genius who video of him doing complex math at the age of three went viral. He was invited to join MENSA fours. Mom submitted it and he was accepted at age five. He and She both have long COVID Cynthia, shout out to Cynthia ad Nagin her brilliant son, Aiden. They're both brilliant. And she founded a health equity agency. And he is officially the paediatric spokesperson. He does not know he does not know his IQ. So cute. He had literally just turned eight a couple of weeks before I interviewed him in August. And one second, he's telling me what I need to understand about quantum singularities. And then the next second is holding up pieces of clay saying look at the ribbon I made. And he's what's funny about the interview we did is all three of us were having a level of a COVID flare up. So all three of us were having cognitive challenges. So   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:24 it was like a fun show.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:07:25 It was fun. But you know, when you're with an eight year old, you roll with it. Yep. And we just kind of laugh with but he's, he's amazing. He is training to be a chess champion, because COVID has affected his ability to do outdoor sports. And he's homeschooled with a pod of other little young geniuses like Kim. And but I got to talk with the Sunni meet. One of the people I got to interview was the biker from the village people, ah, and the first woman to be the president of the National Association of government guaranteed lenders and, you know, some local elected officials. But then like, I found out a whole side to my hairdresser. And, and his story as a small business owner who's getting ready to hand it off to his daughter, now that he's in his 60s and I know what his journey was like and how his grandparents stood behind him as a black straight male wanting to do hair.   Michael Hingson ** 1:08:28 There you go. So you have lots of lots of people. I have one more question for you. This is a very crucial question. How tall are you?   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:08:38 five foot six.   Michael Hingson ** 1:08:40 And how tall is your husband?   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:08:42 five foot eight.   Michael Hingson ** 1:08:44 Ha we did not follow in our parents footsteps. Okay, I just wanted to check that out.   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:08:49 But here's the flip side to that though. Yeah, they were both named Joe. My dad was a Joseph. My husband is a Joseph.   Michael Hingson ** 1:08:57 There you go. And what's your son's name?   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:09:00 Colin   Michael Hingson ** 1:09:01 Cartwright. You said that Yeah. Well Colin Joseph. Okay. So there's a Joseph in   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:09:05 all of them in my dad was was rather dark for a mixed race man. All three of them are avid outdoorsman. In my husband's not into the same kind of football basketball. My dad was but all three of them were hunters. Okay. married to former vegetarian. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 1:09:24 there you are. If people want to reach out to you maybe learn about your coaching and and get in touch. How do they do that?   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:09:31 They can find me on LinkedIn. BGardenhiremills. And you spell it sure it's B G A R D E N H I R E. Mills. I'm on all forms of social media. And honestly, if they can get Barbara Anne garden Hire Mills if you Google that and What the Why it pops up the show airs on RVN R V N television.com as well as roku. And then I believe I forwarded you some some other links to the website. I'm not going to spell out our whole ridiculously long website because I'm actually I actually bought the URLs to shorten it. So   Michael Hingson ** 1:10:26 how do I find it on Roku?   Barbara Anne Gardenhire-Mills ** 1:10:28 I believe rvn because I don't have Roku that's why it's there. Yeah. But if you go on Roku you should be able to find the channel for RV and television is supposed to be on the Roku channels are and I'll check out under the Roku channels otherwise, RV and television or there's access to it directly from my website, which is my entire name spelled out a moment of weakness. It when I was having COVID Happy hypoxia which is really not happy. But I thought somebody said to me, Oh, let it you just name your website, your company and I thought, Oh, sure. Yeah, well, yeah, well, as if my name isn't long enough purpose built solutions and evolutions because you can't have an ampersand and a website.   Michael Hingson ** 1:11:08 No, that's okay. I'm gonna go hunted down on Roku though. That'll be kind of fun. Awesome. Well, I want to thank you for being here. And I want to thank you for listening. I love to hear your thoughts about today. This has been a lot of fun and firebrands, life and lessons are definitely worth paying attention to and I really value the time that we got to spend. I'd love to hear your thoughts, please feel free to email me Michaelhi m i c h a e l h i at accessibe A C C E S S I B E.com. Or go to www dot Michael Hingson H i n g s o n.com/podcast. To listen to more podcasts. But you can also find us wherever Podcasts can be found. And wherever you listen, please give us a five star rating. We appreciate it. We appreciate your insights and your comments and value them greatly. Now, of course, both Barbara Anne for you and for you listening. If you know of anyone who want to be a guest on our podcast, please let us know. We're always looking for more people to come on our podcast. I'm sure that Barbara Anne could talk to you about talk shows and in finding guests. So whatever. We'd love to hear from you and we really value your time and that you took the time to be with us today. And Barbara Anne one last time. T

(2:00) A closer look at the 15 Minute City being built in AZ. They brag it's missing cars (as if that were a good thing). But it's missing one essential ingredient of Smart City… (18:32) New 15 Minute City in Arizona and Portland, Oregon has a goal of 80% of the population living in a Smart City within the next decade (27:00) The Smart City makes it clear they don't want cars of any kind, including EV. But they're giving away over 200 e-bikes and the streets are too narrow for fire trucks… () Predictions of massive depopulation of Deagle.com look to be on track thanks to the Trump shots, but if they need to get it done by 2025, here's what the former CIA Director who played a big role in Dark Winter says would get there in less than a year with just one event… (54:51) More documents surface via FOIA requests showing a foreknowledge of "COVID-19" before anyone began talking about it publicly and months before it was named (1:06:02) JP Morgan pulls out of a $68 TRILLION Climate joint venture, Climate Action 100+. They are going to have to regroup and rebrand at the very least (1:11:08) "Useful idiots" of climate throw red powder on the Constitution in the National Archives (1:19:26) "Geoengineering" efforts are looking more like POLLUTION, NOT SOLUTION even if you believe the CO2 gaslight fables. Chemtrails admitted, trees cut down & buried, lye dumped into the ocean, and more… (1:27:43) Mark Steyn's loss in the Michael Mann "hockey stick" trial is a defeat for both free speech AND science — and his lawyer won the absurd decision by tying it to Jan6 "insurrection" (1:36:50) WATCH Irish pastor "fixes" Super Bowl commercial "He Gets Us" — and it goes viral (1:49:38) Persecution of Christians for "hate speech" is ramping up in Sadiq Khan's London as police standby while Muslims chant for "Sharia Law". Why aren't LGBT triggered by THAT? WATCH another girl-boss cop revel in her Nanny State privilege (2:07:24) CS Lewis on the nanny state (2:09:00) Hindu group in India demands Christian schools remove all faith related symbols and censor what they say — from the people that gave us the caste system. How many Christians are there in India vs America? And these are people who are risking their lives and homes as followers (2:20:21) An entire town in Spain embraces pedophilia as hundreds of teens (12-18) in California get mutilating surgery from Kaiser Permanente, increasing by 13 fold over a 7 year period (2:24:53) Teen Charged: "Felony Burnout" on Pride Rainbow Street Paint Burn US flags? Fine. Burnout on rainbow street paint? Felony for a 19 year old. (2:30:42) Stories from listeners' emailsVictory over mandates — another successful business after refusing to bow to mandatesUkraine population replacementSimple method for determining who's a polished tool of the satanic cabalThe "non-profit" company that grades GRE exams (for graduate school admission) is turning to AI to grade essays instead of humans. AI gives itself a C- apart from its bias and hallucinationsPushing back on vax mandates before "Covid"And, "does anyone know where we can find REAL doctors"?Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.comIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Money is only what YOU hold: Go to DavidKnight.gold for great deals on physical gold/silver

(2:00) A closer look at the 15 Minute City being built in AZ. They brag it's missing cars (as if that were a good thing). But it's missing one essential ingredient of Smart City… (18:32) New 15 Minute City in Arizona and Portland, Oregon has a goal of 80% of the population living in a Smart City within the next decade (27:00) The Smart City makes it clear they don't want cars of any kind, including EV. But they're giving away over 200 e-bikes and the streets are too narrow for fire trucks… () Predictions of massive depopulation of Deagle.com look to be on track thanks to the Trump shots, but if they need to get it done by 2025, here's what the former CIA Director who played a big role in Dark Winter says would get there in less than a year with just one event… (54:51) More documents surface via FOIA requests showing a foreknowledge of "COVID-19" before anyone began talking about it publicly and months before it was named (1:06:02) JP Morgan pulls out of a $68 TRILLION Climate joint venture, Climate Action 100+. They are going to have to regroup and rebrand at the very least (1:11:08) "Useful idiots" of climate throw red powder on the Constitution in the National Archives (1:19:26) "Geoengineering" efforts are looking more like POLLUTION, NOT SOLUTION even if you believe the CO2 gaslight fables. Chemtrails admitted, trees cut down & buried, lye dumped into the ocean, and more… (1:27:43) Mark Steyn's loss in the Michael Mann "hockey stick" trial is a defeat for both free speech AND science — and his lawyer won the absurd decision by tying it to Jan6 "insurrection" (1:36:50) WATCH Irish pastor "fixes" Super Bowl commercial "He Gets Us" — and it goes viral (1:49:38) Persecution of Christians for "hate speech" is ramping up in Sadiq Khan's London as police standby while Muslims chant for "Sharia Law". Why aren't LGBT triggered by THAT? WATCH another girl-boss cop revel in her Nanny State privilege (2:07:24) CS Lewis on the nanny state (2:09:00) Hindu group in India demands Christian schools remove all faith related symbols and censor what they say — from the people that gave us the caste system. How many Christians are there in India vs America? And these are people who are risking their lives and homes as followers (2:20:21) An entire town in Spain embraces pedophilia as hundreds of teens (12-18) in California get mutilating surgery from Kaiser Permanente, increasing by 13 fold over a 7 year period (2:24:53) Teen Charged: "Felony Burnout" on Pride Rainbow Street Paint Burn US flags? Fine. Burnout on rainbow street paint? Felony for a 19 year old. (2:30:42) Stories from listeners' emailsVictory over mandates — another successful business after refusing to bow to mandatesUkraine population replacementSimple method for determining who's a polished tool of the satanic cabalThe "non-profit" company that grades GRE exams (for graduate school admission) is turning to AI to grade essays instead of humans. AI gives itself a C- apart from its bias and hallucinationsPushing back on vax mandates before "Covid"And, "does anyone know where we can find REAL doctors"?Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.comIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Money is only what YOU hold: Go to DavidKnight.gold for great deals on physical gold/silver

This week on Behind the Curtain… Producer Joe was out sick with Covid AND the Flu, we ask you to name our show (wrong answers only), and we discuss the arrival of MOTHER (Taylor Swift) to Baltimore for the AFC Championship game. We were also joined by Orioles manager, Brandon Hyde, as well as a heap of Orioles top talent for our live event at Banditos! All of this, plus much more, on – Behind the Curtain!!

Welcome to another episode of Within the Trenches, true stories from the 9-1-1 dispatchers who live them. Ep 527 features Hannah, CTO w/Jacksonville Sheriff's Officer, FL. Sponsored by INdigital - Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter | Web Episode topics – Hannah's 9-1-1 story Heartbreaking police chase tragedy Life-saving moments Emotional turmoil and Covid And more As always, if you have any comments, questions, or you would like to be a guest on the show, please email me at wttpodcast@gmail.com.

Live from the Heart of America—I'm Steve Gruber— Your Soldier of Truth—the Tip of the Spear against socialists—here ready to fight for you from the Foxhole of Freedom—AND—REMEMBER TO THINK while its still legal—this is the Steve Gruber Show—   Here are 3 big things you need to know right now—   Number One— Buyer beware—several products are still available for sale on Facebook Marketplace—even after more than 100 deaths have been reported—I'll tell you what they are—   Number Two— President Biden's tone deaf self-serving remarks in Maui—have left Hawaiian residents completely appalled by his self-centered callous behavior in light of the tragedy they've endured—   Number Three— The Covid-nistas are coming back—and they are gearing up to issue new mandates for masks and for mandatory injections—of the latest so-called booster shots—   You go ahead and line up—I will not be getting any such thing—EVER! No, I will not comply to the latest push by the folks at the CDC, WHO, NIH or Pfizer—to convince me that the somehow we are all in danger—and this looks to be a coordinated assault all over again—   AND surprise—its all coming just in time to get fully ramped up into the 2024 Presidential Election cycle—what a shocking coincidence—the virus returns just in time to create havoc for voters trying to toss the incompetent socialists out of office—   And you say Steve—how do you know that masks and Covid vaccines failed to protect us? Well, that is a simple question—because if masks and the Covid jabs had worked—we wouldn't still be talking about Covid—   And let me be clear—this new round Covidism is a lot bigger than maybe you realize—as many as 100 colleges and universities in this country are making so-called Covid vaccines mandatory for kids to attend classes this fall—   No joke—   In fact one college in Atlanta has even put social distancing back in place—yeah you heard me right—Morris Brown College has announced a battery of new Covid mitigation policies—BUT its only for the next two weeks they claim—   The broad new policies include a vigorous mask mandate, physical distancing. A ban on any campus parties plus temperature checks when students arrive each day for classes—yeah its everything you loved about the pandemic days—and its all fresh for fall 2023—   And its not just Morris Brown—other places that clearly should know better by now are falling right in line—like Harvard, Georgetown and Rutgers, where masks and vaccines will be required to be in class starting next week—and if you refuse—you're out—period—   And they will not be the last—the Covidians are prepping for a large tyrannical rollout—and they are phasing it in pretty quickly—rumors are flying that soon you will be forced to mask up on planes and subways again soon too—   As you watch this happen—please remember this: It's just a mask Its just 6 feet Its just 15 days to flatten the curve Its just non-essential businesses and non-essential workers Its just a bar Its just a restaurant Its just school Its just a plane ride Its just until they can get things under control—BUT what they didn't admit—was the thing they were getting under control was not the virus—it was people like you and people like me!   I for one will never go through such a thing ever again—I will never comply with draconian lockdowns or mandates that the Covidians try to force upon us—its never going to happen—AND if you don't think this is serious—let me prove to you—its as serious as a vaccine induced myocarditis heart attack in a young healthy athlete!    Keep in mind—the vaccines from Pfizer where he is a board member—produced a slew of new billionaires—and a whole lot of multi-millionaires too—what it didn't do was slow the spread—or stop transmission of the virus created in a Chinese lab with American taxpayer funding—   And its not just Pfizer and those colleges and universities that I pointed out getting ready—it appears some major retail outlets know something is coming—at least that's the way it appears to some members of Congress—   And she is not alone in the halls of Congress—there are others that are watching with an almost morbid curiosity— In fact there are some members of Congress that are being quite clear—they will not support nor comply with any return to Covid lockdowns, mask mandates or vaccine requirements—and they are not afraid to say so—   And so far this is mild—and many on social media and elsewhere say this is all about the upcoming election and an early effort to begin to neutralize the populist movement that Donald Trump is beginning to build again—to oust the feeble Joe Biden and return to the Oval Office for a second term—   AND some people have a lot more to say when it comes to the threat of new government imposed restrictions—and demands—     I think she covered it pretty well—what do you say—   I will not comply—will you?   Oh, and remember one more thing—a true pandemic doesn't need 24/7 reminders that its happening—it doesn't need government supported advertising efforts—you see actual pandemics are clear to everyone—and don't need an ad campaign and endless propaganda—BUT a massive psychological operation needs all of those things—  

Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are analyzing the Oscar-winning film "The Whale" starring Brendan Fraser. This one's a doozy! This emotional film stirred up a lot of different, conflicting emotions for Dr. Furey and Portia. While exploring our own sadness and rage, we also discuss the masterful portrayal of depression, binge-eating disorder, childhood abandonment, and end-of-life care. We hope you enjoy! Instagram Analyze Scripts Website Portia Pendleton: Hi. Dr. Katrina Furey: Welcome back to another episode of Analyze Scripts. I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist, and I'm joined, as always, by my friend and colleague, Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker. Thanks for joining us. Once again, or if it's your first time, welcome. Today we are going to be talking about the film by Darren Aranovsky. I think I'm saying that right. The Whale, which recently Brendan Fraser, who stars in this movie, won an Oscar for best actor. So we're pretty excited to talk about it. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: Brendan Fraser is, like, all over the place. He just seems so precious. And that's a perfect word to describe. Dr. Katrina Furey: And precious. Portia Pendleton: I like that it means, like I don't know. I want him to be I want. Dr. Katrina Furey: Good taking care of him. I know. I want him to have, like, a serenity garden with a little quiet waterfall and some butterflies. Yeah, that's what I want. Portia Pendleton: And all the awards and accolades that he deserves. So I think a lot of people remember him from Georgia the Jungle, the big shirtless man. And then he was in the Mummy trilogy, and then he kind of stalled for a bird. Dr. Katrina Furey: I thought maybe he just was like, all right, I'm done now. Portia Pendleton: Yes. I think we've learned more recently I don't think that this really came out of the time, but he did report a sexual assault in 2003 by Philip Burke, who was the then Hollywood Foreign Press Association president. So I think this kind of piggybacked on what we've seen before with the MeToo movement and what's the guy's name? Dr. Katrina Furey: Harvey Weinstein. Portia Pendleton: Like a Harvey Weinstein kind of situation. And I think Brendan Fraser can be added and welcomed into the Me, too. He put himself out there as a young man, 30s, back in the day, and what happened is really normal then, right. It kind of got brushed in the rug. He was blackballed by the industry. His name was not brought up for things. And I think it's just such, like, a beautiful story that now he got this opportunity and he just, like, knocked out of the park. I mean, he got, I think, an eleven minute standing ovation when this film was shown at the Sundance Film Festival. People are just loving him and his performance. Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think it's kind of shocking, right, to see someone who was like George of the Jungle or in these other shore roles that weren't so deep and emotional to really perform in that way. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Dr. Katrina Furey: I think there was also some sort of I don't know about controversy. I don't think that's the word I'm looking for. But I don't think he went to the Golden Globes specifically because I don't think he felt supported when all this happened and he continued to take a stand. I was really proud of him for that. Really proud of him for that. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: I think he just is. I hope that he's being welcomed back with kind of open arms into a supportive and getting the credit that he. Dr. Katrina Furey: Deserves, and I hope he has some good therapy along the way. Portia Pendleton: So The Whale has kind of, like a little bit of an interesting story. I don't have the details exactly in front of me, so I'm kind of just going to recall it, but it was based on, like, a play, and it was forever. Like, the script has been floating around for, I think, the past 1510 to 15 years. And there's been, like, different directors, different producers, different actors kind of floated around with it at some point. I think that oh, he's the host of the Late Late Night Show. Dr. Katrina Furey: Seth Meyers? No. Portia Pendleton: Steven Colbert. England. Dr. Katrina Furey: The redhead? Portia Pendleton: Yes. Dr. Katrina Furey: No. James Corgan? Portia Pendleton: Yes. Okay. Portia Pendleton: As a potential he was going to play not a good he didn't yeah. Dr. Katrina Furey: I'm really glad I didn't know he was an actor. Portia Pendleton: I don't know. Dr. Katrina Furey: That's what I saw, according to the Internet. Portia Pendleton: So I just think it's an interesting path that both The Whale, in one sense has had and then Brendan Fraser and I feel like they both kind. Dr. Katrina Furey: Of came together like it was meant to be. Wow. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Dr. Katrina Furey: That is nice. Portia Pendleton: So why don't we do, like, a little brief, brief, brief rundown about the premise of the movie? Portia Pendleton: Okay. Portia Pendleton: So if you haven't seen it, but you want to kind of just, like, hear the podcast episode, we'll try to give you some context. Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. But also I think we wanted to include a trigger warning with this episode because The Whale is a really emotional film and we will be talking about some pretty intense themes today, including disordered eating patterns, strained parent, child relationships, abandonment, trauma, and suicide. So we did just want to give that little warning because it is intense. And even if you haven't watched the film yet, again, do so, but just be aware it's intense. Portia Pendleton: Yeah, I definitely was feeling a lot of emotions throughout the movie. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Dr. Katrina Furey: And it's really interesting that we both left the movie feeling very different, but very strong feelings. So we'll talk about that. So the premise I recall from this movie, again, I feel like I was so angry at the end, I've blocked some things out, which is interesting. But basically we see this very obese man and I don't know, we wanted to talk about even what terminology we wanted to use to talk about his character. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: So, I mean, there is, like, kind of, I guess a split field with just, like, how to refer to someone who's in, like, a much larger body. I think some people would prefer just to be called fat. This is a fat man. Other people, I think, prefer to use more, like, just medical terminology. And it's like, with non judgment, but just kind of stating more facts most. Dr. Katrina Furey: Likely meet medical criteria for morbid obesity. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: So I think maybe we will use interchangeable language throughout the podcast, whether we are referring to him as fat and a large body or morbidly obese, we'd. Dr. Katrina Furey: Be curious to hear your thoughts about what you think about these words and terminology as we talk about these tough issues. So, anyway, Brendan Fraser plays Charlie, who it looks like is a teacher for like, an online college writing course. And he also appears to be somewhat of a hermit. The whole film takes place in his apartment. My husband, he's so witty. He kept saying, like, wow, they really saved money on the budget there. Portia Pendleton: I had that thought after. And again, such a quote unquote low budget film. There's not really per se, like these crazy special effects and all of these sets. It's like they built this set, this home, and we really don't see anything outside of it besides this one flashback. So totally like a beach. But yes, it's like around the apartment. It's in the apartment. It's right outside his apartment door. The parking lot of the apartment, right. Dr. Katrina Furey: And we didn't know for a while was it an apartment or a house. We just start off right in the house and in the home. And then as the film moves on, we see the different rooms and like the one room he's kept locked and things like that. And then at some point, I don't remember exactly how far into the movie, but not right away, we see that he's actually on the second floor. And so, again, that sort of was like, well, okay, now I see why he really doesn't leave because he has a lot of mobility trouble. But so basically, it seems like this film is sort of capturing the last week of his life, right, that he is morbidly obese and dealing with all of the medical consequences that unfortunately come with that. As a physician, I thought they did a really good job accurately depicting that. They depicted hypertensive emergency with his blood pressure being I wrote it down. Actually, I was going to ask you. I wrote it down in my notes. My first note was while he's masturbating. That was a surprise, just real quick. And then the next one's. Blood pressure was 238 over 134. And I have three exclamation points because that is so scary high. Normal blood pressure is around 120 over 80. So that is really high. In us physicians, we really worry about the bottom number, the diastolic number. I mean, we worry about both, but especially the diastolic number. We worry about it when it's between 91 hundred. So 134 is like, really scary high. Like, he could have a stroke. Portia Pendleton: He could have heart attack. Dr. Katrina Furey: He could all the things. And then you see him, like, I. Portia Pendleton: Think. Dr. Katrina Furey: As he ********** or something I thought was having a heart attack. He's wheezing, he's sweating, he's grabbing his chest like he's having chest pain. He's like moving his left arm, indicating it's radiating down there. And I was like, oh, my God, he's having a heart attack. He's not going to die because then the movie will be over. But this is, like, really accurate. And then with his wheezing and his friend who comes over to listen to him, immediately, I thought he's probably in heart failure and his legs are swollen. All of it was really accurate. Portia Pendleton: Right. Dr. Katrina Furey: So, again, from a medical perspective, I thought they did a really good job portraying that. And the struggles of living in such a large body, like with the walker, with the wheelchair, with all the assistive devices, like the four year lift to get in and out of the bed, things to grab things from up high or down low. He alludes at some point to having bed sores and things like that, which is probably true if you're not able to work around too much. So I did think that was spot on. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: And I think kind of right away, we are introduced to a couple. Again, not a big cast. Dr. Katrina Furey: There's like five characters. Portia Pendleton: So there's Brendan Fraser, who's Charlie, and then there is his friend, it seems like a longtime friend who is a nurse, I believe, or some kind of medically trained she looks like a nurse. Dr. Katrina Furey: Liz, I think was her name. Portia Pendleton: She was nominated, I believe, played by Hong Chow. And then Thomas, who is this, like, traveling missionary, seems like. But then there's a little bit of a twist at the end. His daughter, who's played by Sadie Singh, Ellie. And then we briefly see Charlie's ex wife and Sadie Singh's. Or Lily's, Ellie's mom, Mary, who was. Dr. Katrina Furey: Played by Samantha Morton. And then we also have Dan, I believe was the name of his partner. Portia Pendleton: Right. Portia Pendleton: And then a little brief character of the delivery person. Dr. Katrina Furey: The delivery person, that's right. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Dr. Katrina Furey: So I got kind of sidetracked summarizing the plot. Did you have anything you wanted to. Portia Pendleton: Add before we dive into we kind of get the feeling that he is a little bit of a hermit. His apartment is really dark, like, windows, shades are drawn, a lot of clutter. Portia Pendleton: Yep, yep. Dr. Katrina Furey: Maybe kind of hoarding, but not like kind of hoarding. Portia Pendleton: And then we see him teaching. He doesn't have his camera off. So I'm kind of getting the feeling that he has some shame about his appearance because it's kind of demonstrated to us the camera does work. It's just kind of like a choice that he's not putting it on. Dr. Katrina Furey: I at first thought, Is this during COVID I did, too. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. So my first thoughts were like, Whoa, there's masturbating. Is this during COVID And then I was like, wow, like, really interesting. Those were, like, my kind of back and forth. Dr. Katrina Furey: So, anyway, intense feelings right away. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: We start to see his health seriously decline. It seems like he appears at first to not want to get to medical help because of worries for cost. We learn later, like some other information around that. But that's what he's telling Liz to not go to the hospital. She's encouraging him. Portia Pendleton: Right. Dr. Katrina Furey: So Liz, who at first we think of as his friend, she's always showing up in scrubs. She has a stethoscope. She seems to be a nurse. She works night shifts, things like that. She's sort of like being his nurse and medical caretaker. Which I kept thinking, like, what a hard position for her, to be sure. But I know, like, toward the end, they were like, oh, wait, you do have this money. You could go to the hospital. Portia Pendleton: Let's be real. Dr. Katrina Furey: The level of care he would need is, like, ICU level of care that is crazy expensive. Like, his bill would be astronomical. Like, the 140 grand or something that he has would not cover it. Portia Pendleton: Maybe like two days is you can afford health insurance. Okay, there we go. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: I feel like that's also something that I wanted to spend a little bit. Portia Pendleton: Of time talking about. Portia Pendleton: It's just, like, health insurance and kind of, from our perspectives, his potential barriers, or just like, potential systemic barriers. But my thought was really, like, he might not qualify for Medicaid. Maybe he does make too much. But then I would assume that there is some kind of supplemental insurance or that he would be paying into something. And again, even if he was paying into a high deductible and his deductible was, like, $15,000, that's way less than hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars of his bill. Dr. Katrina Furey: So it's so true. Portia Pendleton: That's where I was a little angry. Kind of like it felt like a little bit of misinformation. While I'm very aware that health insurance can be wildly costly and there's a lot of people who need better care, and that's a barrier. So I think I'm trying to balance both sides of the coin. Dr. Katrina Furey: But I think that is sort of the mixed feelings Charlie stirs up in you, at least for me, is like, you get so frustrated with him that he's not getting help or taking the help that's being offered. And I think that's actually a really good example of that. You do have the funds to get health insurance. Like he said, his expenses are very minimal at that point at somewhere along the way, he could have gotten some help and he hasn't. And so that stirs up some really kind of icky feelings, at least in me. I was feeling really angry with him for a lot of the movie. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: And I think that anger is magnified because, again, a part of the storyline is that he is kind of choosing to step back into his daughter's life, which appears that he abandoned her when she was eight, I believe, and kind of left that family to have a partner. Dr. Katrina Furey: It appears that he is gay and. Portia Pendleton: Maybe was in that relationship, as his ex wife discusses, because you just wanted a child. She says that at one point in. Dr. Katrina Furey: The movie, but again, or maybe hadn't really even come out to himself yet. We see. This totally happened, right? So again, it's like, gosh, this movie really stirs up a lot of big feelings because it's like you understand the wife's perspective because they were married, they had this daughter, and all of a sudden he leaves to be with a man. And I couldn't tell if the wife didn't want him in the daughter's life. And that's why he stayed away, because he kept trying to say, like, I sent you letters, I send you money. I would ask about you. Your mom didn't want me around. I couldn't tell how true that was. Portia Pendleton: Right. Dr. Katrina Furey: Or if he's sort of saying that. I don't know. What were your thoughts about that? Portia Pendleton: I wonder if initially she was so angry, rightfully so, and maybe just based on the time where they live, and embarrassed and anger and then embarrassment, kind of, because I guess he tried to get custody, shared custody, whatever, and she fought him for that. Dr. Katrina Furey: She had full custody. Portia Pendleton: So I don't know if he then interpreted some of those things as I'm. Dr. Katrina Furey: Out, or if she did keep the daughter away. And I couldn't tell. I can't remember where they all lived. I couldn't tell how was being gay viewed in their town and their culture and their religion. It sounded like Charlie was part of this what was it called? New Life Religion, or at least his partner was. So was that like, the religion everyone is sort of a part of in their area? And are they against homosexuality? That was unclear. But for whatever reason, he wasn't in his daughter's life, effectively. And then he makes contact again at the end of his life, and and. Portia Pendleton: It seems like it is behind, like, the mom's back and and I do remember actually, there was some, like, alluding to that. It was I don't want to say, like, illegal is not the right word. Dr. Katrina Furey: But, like, not part of the custody. Portia Pendleton: Agreement or should not be reaching out. She could call the police on him for doing that. Dr. Katrina Furey: That was the sense I got, too. So that was where I was like something went down. It seemed like it was more severe than just like, he left. It seemed like there was a really firm line drawn. Unclear exactly why, but it was drawn. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. And then so we learned a little bit that he had left this family to be with a student. And so at first, right, immediately I. Dr. Katrina Furey: Was like, oh, is that why is. Portia Pendleton: He now a sexual predator? Portia Pendleton: Right. Portia Pendleton: I wondered how long it seems like he was teaching adult classes. So it was more of like an ethical issue that he was maybe let go for than, like a legal issue. You're in a position of power, but you're both adults. Dr. Katrina Furey: Right, but I had that thought too. I was like, Is that why the line was so firm with the custody or something like that. But I think he said that Dan was in grad school and it was like night classes, if I remember correctly. Portia Pendleton: And he wasn't currently in his classes at the time when they got together. I don't know. I mean, so he's telling all this to his daughter. Dr. Katrina Furey: So, by the way, who he hasn't spoken to since she was eight, and now she's a senior and, like, just, hey, let me lay all this on you. Portia Pendleton: Then kind of the second part of the film appears to just be around his interactions with his daughter, Ellie, and then occasionally with Thomas, who is like this traveling again, we believe, to be missionary, and Liz his nurse. That's it. And then it gets very emotionally intense. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: So why don't you want to start talking about his daughter a little bit? Dr. Katrina Furey: Fine. Portia Pendleton: I have a lot of angry feelings. Dr. Katrina Furey: Toward Charlie for the way he interacts with his daughter. So Ellie, I thought, was, like, really angry, really feisty. It seemed like she was at risk of failing out of school, and he wanted to help her. So I can't remember now exactly how he got her to come over that first time. Did he send her a message or something saying he had money for her, or do you remember? Portia Pendleton: I don't think he initially said that he had money for her because he then says, I'll pay you. And then that's where she kind of chooses appearingly, so on the surface to stay or to keep coming back. But it sounds like that was new information to her. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Dr. Katrina Furey: And it sounds like he is an English teacher. And throughout the film, there is a lot of significance to this paragraph about the whale from Moby ****. Right. And thomas the traveling. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Dr. Katrina Furey: I keep wanting to say traveling salesman, but that's not what he was traveling. Like, missionary comes in while he's masturbating and then having seems like a mini heart attack or something. And he asks him to read this paragraph to sort of ground him and bring him back and everything. And it's not till the very end of the movie that we learn that Ellie wrote that when she was much younger, and he's always kept it and read it. And I think it really resonates with him, again, being what some people would call a whale, just based on his large size. I think in a lot of ways, it resonated with him. And he sort of starts to say that he will help Ellie rewrite her essays so that she doesn't fail her English class. And then Ellie wants him to write them for her. And he kind of agrees, I think, in an effort to keep seeing her. And there's this tension or thought, I think, in his mind throughout the whole film about, is Ellie a good person or a bad person? And even her mom toward the end is like, she's terrible. I've had a really hard time raising her. You left me with her all on my own and now you're coming in and going behind my back and you told her about the money, she's going to spend it all and blah, blah, blah, blah. But she's very provocative. She really gets under everyone's skin, especially Thomas. And I'm curious what your thoughts were about the final thing they talk about with her. Like sort of telling Thomas's family if that was like a good thing or a bad thing or we don't really know. Portia Pendleton: Yeah, I think she did a really good job in the role. And I know her from Taylor Swift's ten minute version. She's in it all too well. Like the movie with Bill O'Brien and also Stranger Things. But I really like Z. No, I recognized her name, so I thought that some of the things that she was saying to Charlie, her dad, you could feel how hurtful they were. It sounds like she really knows where to hit you. Portia Pendleton: Yes. Dr. Katrina Furey: Like lying and disgusting and even if you weren't fat. Portia Pendleton: And that made me feel really sad. But kind of throughout that, I feel like Ellie was just so sad. Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Portia Pendleton: And abandoned. I think on paper she almost feels a little bit, like, odd and then maybe like moving into some conduct disorder with dead animal stuff. Yeah, I forgot. So on her Instagram page, she has, like, pictures of a dead dog and then she has this knife at one point and it almost feels like she's going to kill the bird that's outside his window. And so again, I think just like, on paper, it feels like a little bit. Dr. Katrina Furey: Where is this going to go? Does she have antisocial personality disorder? Is she growing into that? Or is this like trauma? Portia Pendleton: Right. Portia Pendleton: So I feel like it's trauma. Dr. Katrina Furey: It could also be both. Portia Pendleton: Right. I think at this point, I have a really big heart for teens. Dr. Katrina Furey: I've worked with many. Portia Pendleton: And my heart breaks for her because she keeps coming back. She's so mean and trying to push him away, but then she keeps coming back. Dr. Katrina Furey: She doesn't leave. Portia Pendleton: At one point, I think she's going to leave, but then she goes back and sits in the chair and does what he says. Dr. Katrina Furey: She writes him. Portia Pendleton: She's like, I'm going to make you a sandwich. No, it's not going to be big. But then she's like, doing these things for him. So, again, it's like she wants so badly, deep down to be like, parented. Dr. Katrina Furey: And loved and supported and all children want. Right. 100%. I thought it was like, such a chilling since you get goosebumps everywhere. Such a good portrayal of just a really difficult parent child relationship. And I think with her coming in and confronting the person, she feels like abandoned her. Who did you see why she feels that way? Right. Whatever the reasons are, he wasn't there, right? Period. And now coming back and of course, I feel like she's just all her anger and yelling and acting out is just, like, externalizing all of her pain rather than internalizing it, which it seems like Charlie internalizes his pain by binge eating. And we'll get into that in a minute. I think what made me so angry about this movie, and maybe it's supposed to, is that he comes into her life when he knows he's dying. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: Right. Portia Pendleton: For him to see her, that she is okay, it's like, you don't want to make her okay. You are just, like, checking back into her life to make sure you did one thing right. And it's like, for you. So selfish. Dr. Katrina Furey: I was going to read my final notes here on my notes app. At the very end I wrote ended movie feeling really, really angry. Didn't cry at all. Is he the most selfish person ever? Portia Pendleton: Help. Dr. Katrina Furey: Seeking help, rejecting reconnecting with his daughter to die in front of her. I was so angry. I remember, like, furiously typing this in my notes app because I was just like, God, that is you abandoned her all over again. And she sees him die. Like, he has the final heart attack in front of her while she's reading the Whale to him. Portia Pendleton: And let's just talk about so mad. I don't know if there's a name for it. We could probably call it something. But he is openly rejecting help at the cost of then traumatizing people around him, literally. To watch someone die, even if it's, you know, like a an uncomplicated death. You know, you're you're in the hospital. You're saying goodbyes to your grandparent who's 100 years old. Dr. Katrina Furey: They're on hospital. Portia Pendleton: It's still so traumatic and really hard to watch. So watching your father who 100 years old and who's refusing, don't call them. Don't call them. Even in that moment, don't call them. Just read me this letter instead. It's like, I just feel so abusive. Dr. Katrina Furey: It does, right? That's why I was so mad that I was like, I don't like Charlie. Portia Pendleton: Even within the traumatic end and his apparent rejection of her and abandonment of. Dr. Katrina Furey: Her, it's like he should have asked her to leave. Portia Pendleton: Don't let her watch you literally die. Literally die and force her to read this. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Right? Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes. I was so angry. I don't know. This movie stirred up so much anger in me. I know. Portia after you watched it, you texted me like, oh, my God, I'm crying. I'm so glad I watched this during the day so I can decompress and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I did not shed one tear. I am so full of rage over here. Portia Pendleton: I was like, sad for everyone. Obviously, I'm angry at what he did, but it felt a little bit like an assisted suicide. He knew he was going to die any day, and I think he was kind of just waiting for his heart to give out. Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. But also, I think if we replaced obesity and binge eating with drugs yes. Portia Pendleton: That'S exactly the example I was thinking. Dr. Katrina Furey: I kept feeling for Liz. And then I'm like, and you're enabling him. You're bringing these huge subs by listening to him when he says, don't call for help and putting yourself in that role. You're part of the problem. But I understand why you keep coming. It's so complicated. So I was really just fascinated by whoever's choice it was to use obesity or binge eating as the diagnosis, if you will. And I was curious, Porsche, about your thoughts as someone who does a lot of work with patients with disordered eating, about the depiction of his eating habits and things like that. Portia Pendleton: I guess I would start off with, like, everyone, to a degree, has a different presentation with eating disorders, period. Like what it's used for, whether it's coping or almost like a little bit of self harm. This felt a little bit like self harm versus avoidance. Yeah. And then at times, I think in the bridge it was coping. So I thought we saw kind of two parts with use of kind of food being what we're supposed to be kind of watching and thinking about. So one was him eating like a large you see, like a pair of fried chicken, right. And Liz eating a lot of it. And that feels like, to me, almost a little bit more like self harm. Like, you're kind of intentional at this point. You're kind of dying. It's almost like I was getting the feeling like he was hoping that by doing this, he might speed it up or speed it up, die. And then in the other part of the binge so it seems like it was triggered by which this, to me, feels very common. Dr. Katrina Furey: I thought this was like an amazing depiction. Portia Pendleton: So throughout the movie, we see this almost like, relationship build between him and the delivery driver. So the delivery driver seems like, at times concerned. Portia Pendleton: Right. Portia Pendleton: There's this person in this house. I never see them. I would imagine the person is maybe thinking the person inside is depressed, maybe a hoarder, maybe elderly, like unable to get up, something like that, when you. Dr. Katrina Furey: Were like, but is this COVID? Portia Pendleton: I was like, but if this is. Dr. Katrina Furey: COVID, then we wouldn't think it was weird not to open your door for the delivery man. Right. Interesting. Portia Pendleton: And it was just little fact this was pre COVID. And it seems like it was around the time of the 2016 election. We see some of the news clippings between Hillary and Donald Trump. Dr. Katrina Furey: You're right. Portia Pendleton: I saw an article about like, they chose that intentionally. It was supposed to be like, in 2009, they wanted the movie placed in, but then they moved it up that it impacted it too much. That wasn't like something I was paying attention to. But anyway. So over time, the delivery driver is kind of, like, talking to him more. They get his name. And so it seems like at one point, Charlie feels comfortable enough to go to the door, open it and see him. Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't think it was that he felt comfortable enough. I thought he would be like, oh, the money's out there. Take it. He leaves it, and then he waits a certain number of minutes and then goes to get it. I thought the delivery driver stayed back. Portia Pendleton: Oh, you do? Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. Who was that's? Portia Pendleton: Interesting. Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't know if there's a right or wrong. It's just how we interpret the film. Right. Portia Pendleton: So he goes to the door and the delivery driver sees him and appears to be really disgusted and does not engage. Charlie sees that. He sees him and appears to be disgusted and not engaged. And he kind of, like, runs away. And so Charlie goes back inside and starts to binge. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: And this, I feel like, is a pretty typical binge episode. Like, there's a trigger of something that's emotional associated typically with negative emotion, shame or guilt. And then you proceed to start coping, quote, unquote, by eating a really large amount of food, right? And, yes, there are all different kinds of binges, sometimes people, large or small. Dr. Katrina Furey: But this really is like a clinically defined binge episode. And I think, for me, I found myself feeling really uncomfortable and sick, almost, like physically sick, watching him eat. And I'm like, I'm sure they did this on purpose, but just like, the way he was eating so fast he could barely breathe, he starts to get sweaty and red, and he's, like, drooling. And there's that really intense scene where he's choking the meatball and just all of it, I felt like. And I'm just getting chills. Again, like, talking about it, I think just speaks to the intense emotions driving that behavior that I just thought, again, was really accurately depicted and really stirs up those feelings in the viewer. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: So he is eating really rapidly. He's eating multiple kind of pizza, an odd mix of food, right? So going into the fridge, putting on different condiments, like the things that don't. Dr. Katrina Furey: Belong together, like jelly mayonnaise. And that is binge eating, right? You're not eating, like, third helping a cake, right? You're eating, like, a whole loaf of bread or just sort of kind of odd things. Portia Pendleton: So it's rapid, and we see it kind of end with he unintentionally throws up. And again, that is a difference between a self induced purge where trying to kind of get rid of it. That would be more along the lines of bulimia. But you can end a binge with something like throwing up. And that's not considered bulimia because it's not intentional. And it's kind of all over him. Again, it does bring up feelings of disgust. And I think that's kind of intentional. Intentional for the movie. They really want you to see that he is just, like, suffering. The thing that I took away, and I think he'll. Dr. Katrina Furey: Empathy as you talk. Portia Pendleton: Is that I just felt like his death almost to me, felt like a suicide. And that is where I think a lot of my empathy came from. I think what he did to Ellie is horrible, and I think that's why I really cried. I think I cried the last ten minutes. I could feel it, like, building. Dr. Katrina Furey: I was, like, dissociating from my body from rage. Like, I was just, like, watching it. I was so angry that I was like, I can't get too close to this. Honestly, it was wild. Portia Pendleton: Like, the pain you could feel, I had to get. So I think that's why it was very impactful. Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think, too, the whole story with Dan, his partner, is so tragic. So it sounds like at some point I knew this was coming. And this is where sometimes I feel like a genius when I'm like, I can anticipate the storyline where I was like, oh, my God, Dan is Liz's brother. Portia Pendleton: I didn't get that at all. Dr. Katrina Furey: And then he was but so anyway, because I was like, how does he know Liz? He hasn't gone to a healthcare setting. It's not like she was his nurse and has this inappropriate bond to him or continued trying to help him out of the hospital or something like that. It's not like she was a student of his. How does he know her? It doesn't seem like she's his neighbor. But maybe. But so it turns out that Liz was Dan's sister and she was adopted into the family. And we sort of start to learn about this when the Thomas, the traveling missionary person, says, he's from this church. And she was like, I hate that church. And we learned that the beliefs of that church, it sounds like when Dan and Charlie fell in love, dan was so wracked with guilt, was my understanding, because that wasn't okay in the eyes of the church, that he ended up committing suicide. And so then you're like, that's why they're so bonded, because that was Liz's brother and that was his partner. And you do see some photos of him around his apartment. And Charlie wasn't thin, thin as you would think. Like, he was always maybe living in a larger body, but not morbidly obese. And so to me, I then also started looking at his relationship with food as his grief, like a depiction of grief and his guilt and shame and almost like, taking on literally the weight of Dan's death and in that way kind of like paralleling Dan's suicide, like you were saying, right? It was just so intense. So intense. Portia Pendleton: I know. And I think I don't want to say it's just classic, but it's like, such a common presentation with binge eating disorder. There's so deeply rooted emotions, typically, of guilt and shame grief, rejection, out of control. Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. I don't know. That's just kind of my guiding it can spiral. Portia Pendleton: Right. Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, he didn't put on that weight overnight. It took years and years and years and years. And you imagine as that's happening, his world was probably getting smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. Like, he was staying more and more in the house. And that's just sort of like you feel depressed watching the movie. It's dark. His apartment is cluttered. He, like, showers to see his daughter. But otherwise you imagine he's not really keeping up with his hygiene and all the things. And because it's hard to physically challenging. Portia Pendleton: It's a production to get up and even use the bathroom. Dr. Katrina Furey: I know. And it was so sad to me when Ellie was like, get up and walk over here. Portia Pendleton: I got teary watching that. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Dr. Katrina Furey: That made me and then he felt I mean, it just made me so uncomfortable. Like, that was another feeling I had throughout most of the movie, was just like, discomfort in so many different ways. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. And he repeatedly throughout the movie says, I'm sorry. Dr. Katrina Furey: Right? Portia Pendleton: Like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, like, over and over again and gets, like, so mad about him because, like, you're not sorry. Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, that's the thing, right? Portia Pendleton: You can be both. But it's like he needs some DBT, right? Because you're saying you're sorry, but you're not doing anything to make it better for others, even not even just for yourself. Dr. Katrina Furey: But I didn't get the sense again, I was so angry with him by the end, but I also look at him as being so traumatized. And I didn't get the sense it was malicious. Portia Pendleton: No. Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. I just got the sense he was so hopeless and depressed. But then I would be so frustrated with him to not take people up on the offer to help or get the insurance or have sought help earlier on or anything. But I'm just like, maybe he just felt like he didn't deserve that. Portia Pendleton: Yeah, I think that's absolutely part of it. And I think I just frame the entire thing as a suicide. And I think all of these feelings that we're talking about right now, you feel when someone takes their life suicide. Portia Pendleton: Right? Portia Pendleton: You're like, how could you do that? How could you leave your family, your kids? And there's really natural reactions that come up, like, you're selfish. Dr. Katrina Furey: How could you choose that? Portia Pendleton: Why wouldn't you reach out? Why wouldn't you go to the hospital? Why would you embark on a really planned and follow through event that leaves everyone just wrecked? Portia Pendleton: Right. Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't think Ellie is going to be better. Portia Pendleton: Right. Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't think this is going to help her. And I think I was also so angry because another sort of storyline throughout the movie was between Ellie and Thomas. We get the sense at first that Thomas is this, like, goody two shoes, new life missionary who doesn't swear, doesn't drink, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that Ellie's, like, being provocative and trying to poke him and trying to get him to smoke pot, or she's going to call the police and say he raped her. She has all of these really provocative things and keeps taking his picture, which I thought was so weird. Portia Pendleton: And she takes her dad's picture and posts it and has a really in common. Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Just a lot of boundary violations on her part. At first I was like, she's giving me a lot of cluster b vibes, like you were saying. And then it turns out that this guy was part of the church, but then stole their money, so he ran away. And now he's like, ran out of the money so he can't get back. And he's kind of lost. He's full of guilt and shame and worried that his parents will reject him because of what he did. And so somehow she sends the photos or something to his parents and they welcome him back. They surprise him and actually say, we don't care about the money, we just want you back. And he shows up near the end of Charlie's life to tell him about this and that Ellie was responsible for it. And Charlie internalizes it or interprets it as like, see, Ellie is good. But I was like, I don't think that that was good. Right. I don't think she was doing that in hopes that would be the outcome. I think she was, like, trying to hurt it. Right? Portia Pendleton: Yeah, totally. No, that's what I got from that. And I thought that Ellie is just such a good example of how for some people, events that happen in childhood can lead to, you know, and a later in life presentation. Portia Pendleton: Right. Portia Pendleton: Like, and I I think at this point and I'm I'm very hopeful with. Dr. Katrina Furey: Kids and teens that like a chef. If you listen to our episode about. Portia Pendleton: Choke Open, that's my what is it called? So I think in a perfect world, if she could have worked, if her father had stayed alive and healed his mental health and health, and she was able to get really good therapy and. Dr. Katrina Furey: Family therapy, like go to residential. Portia Pendleton: Exactly. Portia Pendleton: I think that there is a path for her, but I feel like her watching him die is not going to having no closure. And now it sounds like no guidance from mom. It seems like mom is now checked out because she said to Charlie, I raised her and you gave her the money. That's the best that we could do. Dr. Katrina Furey: It seems like mom really also gave up on her. She was like, duly abandoned. Portia Pendleton: I just don't see a great outlook for her. Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't either. And I don't think that was an act of good for Thomas. I think she's always trying to hurt people. Portia Pendleton: Right. And I think what's scary and concerning is it gets worse when you're an adult. Right. There's more consequences. You often as an adult are not referred to justice system like a residential instead of jail. You're 18 and if you do something I mean, she's threatening. She's literally threatening Thomas. Like you can't tell someone that you have to smoke pot or I'm going to tell people that you raped me. Provocative is a great word. Like aggressive. Dr. Katrina Furey: Provocative. It is threatening. Right, exactly. So I think you're right on the nose about her totally being this odd presentation. Odd. By that we mean oppositional defiant disorder, which is something that's diagnosed, I think, in teenagers. Right? Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Portia Pendleton: It's kind of like the prerequisite to then conduct disorder, which is like a little bit worse. It's like children specifically and teens who are very hurtful of others intentionally and typically there's a little extra layer there like you're setting fires or you have killed like a small animal. So I mean, it's very concerning. Dr. Katrina Furey: Know the difference. This is the important thing we talked about again back in you if you haven't listened yet, please go back and listen. But this is the flavor of the type of personality that unfortunately will become antisocial personality disorder with a lot of criminality. Like, you know the difference between right and wrong and you want to do right. You want to hurt other people. And a lot of times kids who meet this criteria do have a trauma history and you're like, you were so hurt, now you want to hurt others. It was interesting that it was a daughter. I feel like oftentimes we see this in boys, right? Like boys are more often diagnosed with that girls are more often diagnosed with like borderline personality disorder. So it's interesting to see a depiction in a girl. Portia Pendleton: Yeah, that's a good point. Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh God, I need a shower. Portia Pendleton: Yeah, I mean, the movie is just like I think it just made me sad because it just made me feel really like everyone was suffering so deeply and no one even Liz. Portia Pendleton: Right. Portia Pendleton: So she finds out at the end because Mary raised by his ex wife. Dr. Katrina Furey: I think, so something like that. Portia Pendleton: Because she kind of does bring up the fact that he has, I think, like around $120,000, which again he's planning to leave to Ellie and Liz is. Dr. Katrina Furey: Just like, why you were able to get insurance this whole time. Portia Pendleton: And she talks about her car. Portia Pendleton: Right. Portia Pendleton: At some point she was walking in the snow and rain to him to bring him things. And you could see so hurt that he a was not helping himself, but also like her. Dr. Katrina Furey: And I think that the Charlie Liz relationship is a really good depiction of a codependent relationship right. Because they're each enabling each other and getting their own kind of psychological need met. Portia Pendleton: I don't know. Dr. Katrina Furey: What do you think? Portia Pendleton: And have a shared I think yeah, they have all shared shared trauma that they're both like, using each other to cope with. And again, it's not I feel like that sounds bad, but it's just like we also just do that. We find ways to cope, and they're using and coping with each other in an unhealthy way. What did you think about the moment when Charlie was sitting he was sitting down and Mary kind of came over and was putting her head on his chest, and they were just kind of like, having that moment? Dr. Katrina Furey: I honestly don't remember it because I think I was so angry by the end, I blocked out a lot of I guess I thought it was like. Portia Pendleton: She was kind of saying goodbye, probably. Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I could see. I mean, I think they all knew who I don't know if Ellie understood he was dying. Portia Pendleton: Oh, we didn't talk about her giving him the ambien. Again. Dr. Katrina Furey: These are the things that cross over from being a rebellious teen and not listening to mom and Dad's rules and breaking curfew to egregious behavior. Right. Portia Pendleton: Like, literally drugging someone. Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, you could have killed him. Yeah. And then it also gave a sense that mom is maybe taking a lot of pills or something at home and I think drinks a lot. She said so. Also not really checked in. Oh, God. It was just so sad. I think I just really get sad when kids are abandoned by their parents. I think that's hard for me to watch. All right, well, any other final thoughts about this movie? Portia Pendleton: So when we were talking about Charlie's size and it definitely does take time to get into this position, and I wanted to point out in always, right? Mentally, physically, it's like, this isn't something that a large size of chicken wings does. Portia Pendleton: Right. Portia Pendleton: It's repetitive behaviors over and over and over again, kind of in Always with also a lot of health care avoidance. Portia Pendleton: Yes. Portia Pendleton: And I think there's a double edged sword to that. So I think a lot of people in larger bodies feel a lot of shame and can experience, like, fat phobia medical professionals. So there's a lot of avoidance, which is really too bad, because if you were with a provider who was really offering support and guidance in a non judgmental and shameful way, but maybe even just like the same information, you would feel more comfortable going if you get to your healthcare setting. And it was a challenge to write, walk into the building, get up, take up the elevator, walk into the door, and then you find that there's no chair that you can sit in because it's not big enough for you. It's like all of these little, small kind of micro aggression, oppression really kind of sets the effect and makes people not go. So I think I just wanted to talk about having fatty food does not necessarily lead to this. It's a really significant mental health part and kind of a multifaceted place that a person is in to get here. Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. And I think, again, I kept wondering about why did they pick morbid obesity over drug use, cutting, drinking, these other things we think about as self harming types of behaviors that you think you could develop in response to a tragic loss like this. We see that depicted a lot more in the media than something like this. So I think maybe that is why it all struck a nerve for everyone. And I thought overall, they did a remarkable job portraying binge eating the medical consequences that would come from living in a morbidly obese body and all the big feelings that he was probably feeling is what gets stirred up in us for watching, which was really fascinating, something we talk about a lot. And I think it's important, and I hope we keep reiterating with our show, is bodies come in all different shapes and sizes, and unfortunately, the medical field can be inherently fat shaming if you adhere too much to the BMI standards, which, as it turns out, aren't really predictive of overall health and longevity. I think there is some evidence that people with on the lower end of, like, the overweight BMI are sometimes healthier. They might not have high cholesterol or high blood pressure and things like that. A lot of people with a lot of muscle mass weigh more. So BMI is really not that accurate, but it's something a lot of people use. Portia Pendleton: I think it's some of the advice that I give is really just kind of following what, to a degree, like. Dr. Katrina Furey: What your lab work says. Portia Pendleton: And if you are eating, in general, a balanced diet, and you're moving your body in a way that feels good to you, and you're living kind of a lifestyle that feels good, and your lab work is good and you're not having health issues, it's like you're probably okay. Right. And I think that's so true. People who appear and are in many. Dr. Katrina Furey: Other ways very physically healthy can have. Portia Pendleton: Really high cholesterol because it's genetic and there's parts to all of this. Portia Pendleton: Exactly. Portia Pendleton: I find that very interesting. Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, that's the other thing is, even if you do all those things, if you have a family history, you still might develop it. You could be thin and still get diabetes because you're genetically predisposed. It's not only like a quote unquote, fat person disease. Portia Pendleton: Yeah. Dr. Katrina Furey: So I don't know. I think we feel really strongly about that. Portia Pendleton: But this movie was intense. Dr. Katrina Furey: How would you rate it? Portia Pendleton: One to five? Like five stars? Four stars? Four, I think. Dr. Katrina Furey: For sure. Five stars. I mean, I don't know that I want to watch it again because it was intense. Portia Pendleton: I don't know if I could. Not for any near future. Dr. Katrina Furey: I feel like I've been anticipating recording this all week. I feel legit, like a weight is off my back. Which, again, is just really interesting. Portia Pendleton: Yes. Dr. Katrina Furey: Remarkable. I'm glad he won the oscar really well deserved, and I hope he keeps acting. Portia Pendleton: I hope to see more. Dr. Katrina Furey: And if he wants to come on the podcast, you're invited. Yeah, we'd love that. Portia Pendleton: Well, thanks so much for listening to this episode. We hope you enjoyed it. If you would like, we would love for you to follow us on Instagram at Analyze Scripts. And if you could rate, review and subscribe and share with five people. Yeah, our channels on Spotify it seems like it's pretty active, as well as Apple Music, the most out of kind. Dr. Katrina Furey: Of all the other places. Portia Pendleton: But we are everywhere. Portia Pendleton: Yes, we are everywhere. Dr. Katrina Furey: If you wanted to go subscribe literally everywhere, feel free. All right, we'll see you next time. Portia Pendleton: Bye. Dr. Katrina Furey: This podcast and its contents are a copyright of analyzed scripts. Dr. Katrina Furey: All rights reserved. Dr. Katrina Furey: Any redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited. Unless you want to share it with your friends and rate, review and subscribe, that's fine. All stories and characters discussed are fictional in nature. No identification with actual persons, living or deceased places, buildings or products is intended or should be inferred. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The podcast and its contents do not constitute professional mental health or medical advice. Listeners might consider consulting a mental health provider if they need assistance with any mental health problems or concerns. As always, please call 911 or go directly to your nearest emergency room for any psychiatric emergencies. Thanks for listening and see you next time.

Tech Guru Marc Saltzman is back and he's fresh off his first visit to the FUTURE in 3 years! - BMW car that changes colour, - The world's first "wireless TV". - A digital tattoo printer for DIY Tattoo artists! , - Citizen smartwatch that leverages data from IBM and NASA - JBL earbuds with a case that has a color touchscreen... - The world's first foldable OLED laptop (Lenovo)... - Def Leppard's JBL Concert - Elon's "Boring" tunnel under Las Vegas.. - Pee analyzers and Pillows that breathe!!! We also update on INCEL shit-eating SZN! Jordan Peterson's INSANE Tweet/Delete storm this weekend and the PR he's whipping up to sell tickets. Also, Manchurian Douchebag Andrew Tate is now in a Romanian Hostial with AIDS or COVID AND he's going to stay in jail for a long time according to Romanian Police

Chef Riley Redfearn falls in love with the chaotic kitchen and aspires to become an expert in watermelon carving and fruit displays."My biggest inspiration, I'd have to say, is definitely my wife and kids. They want to make me be a better husband, dad, chef, man all around. So I know that I got to get up every day and bust ass. So that way they'll have a good future ahead of them."Riley Redfearn is a chef at a casino in Las Vegas. He specializes in watermelon carvings and fruit displays. He has four children and has been in the culinary industry for over 10 years.This is Riley Redfearn's story...Riley Redfearn is a chef who recently got promoted to the position of Garde Manger chef for a casino. He got his start in cooking in high school working in fast food, but fell in love with it after getting a job in a kitchen and going to culinary school. He is now a father of four and specializes in watermelon carvings and fruit displays. He is currently working on learning how to ice carve and plans to continue advancing in his career.In this episode, you will learn the following:1. What it's like to work in a fast-paced and chaotic kitchen environment2. How to become a better cook or chef3. What goes into planning and executing large scale eventsResources:Chef Riley on InstagramHere is the book Riley referenced. The Art of Charcuterie by the CIAOther great books on making your own Charcuterie:Charcuterie: The Craft of Salting, Smoking, and CuringIn The Charcuterie: The Fatted Calf's Guide to Making Sausage, Salumi, Pates, Roasts, Confits, and Other Meaty GoodsGreat Resource for Equipment and Ingredients for making your own cured meats:The Sausage MakerOther episodes you'll enjoy:Mario OrozcoSuki OtsukiLady Line Cook, Hanalei SouzaConnect with me:InstagramYouTubeWebsiteLoved this episode? Leave us a review and rating hereOr on Apple Podcasts or SpotifyTranscript[00:00:03]Welcome to Inside the Pressure Cooker, where cooks and chefs share their stories of. Life inside the kitchen.[00:00:12]It Amazed me how chaotic it was, but everything was so in sync and just flowed amazingly. And I just found it amazing that we could just cook for a living. I love to hear what got people into kitchens, because we all started somewhere, right? And it's not just fast food that doesn't necessarily count, but that first experience in a real kitchen where that shell shock kind of hits you, but you're in awe of the whole experience, and you're just amazed by its beauty, and you're just sticking to it immediately. It really is almost like a drug where you're just like, oh, shit, man.[00:01:03]It's like, I need more of this. That's pretty much what happened to Riley. I get it. And I know so many of you out there as well get that. So it's a pretty cool story to hear from him.[00:01:15]Keep listening.[00:01:19]All right, we're here with Riley. Riley, give me your 32nd elevator pitch. Who are you? Chef Riley. I'm the Garma jerry chef for a casino for their banquet department.[00:01:34]I specialize in watermelon carvings and fruit displays, or acute displays. Father of four and husband. That's pretty much me summed up. Right. How old are your kids?[00:01:49]I have almost eight year old. She'll be eight in a week. And then I have a five, a two year old and a nine month old. So you've got your hands full. Yeah, things are very hectic.[00:02:06]All right, so tell me a little bit about what you're doing right now with the casino, the garmage. How did you get into that? Yeah, so I just recently got promoted to that position a couple of weeks ago, actually. But I had worked in our banquet department before out here and just kind of played around with that stuff a little bit. Just kind of making all of our fruit displays and stuff just a little bit nicer looking and wasn't ever really too much of a serious thought, but I always enjoyed doing it, so I kind of kept playing around with it.[00:02:39]And then eventually we got some different executive directors and stuff in here, and they liked what they were seeing, so they decided to go ahead and put me in that position full time and have them let that be my main focus. Nice. So how did you get into cooking in general? In high school, I started out in fast food, like a lot of teenage kids do. I enjoyed cooking at home as a hobby, but didn't ever really think of it too much as a career.[00:03:10]Then in my eyes, about 2021, I had a job interview out here at the casino, and it was for a kitchen job, and I didn't really want to be in food and beverage, but took the job anyways because after my probationary period, I would be able to transfer to a different department. So that was the plan, but got in the kitchen, ended up falling in love with it, went to culinary school and just went from there. Started as a line cook, and then it was only three or four months in. They went ahead and promoted me to a lead line cook. And after about two years, two, three years of doing that, they promoted me to sous chef in the cafe that I was working at at the time.[00:03:56]Right on. So what was that moment? Let's go back a little bit to when you just took the job and you were getting ready to you wanted to transfer out, but you fell in love. Was there something specific that you can remember that just said, hey, this is it? I think part of it, a lot of it was just the chaos.[00:04:18]It just amazed me how chaotic it was. But everything was so in sync and just flowed amazingly. And I just found it amazing that we could just cook for a living. No, I get it. As I say, there's probably something addicting.[00:04:36]To the controlled camps. I've always known that I don't want to be sitting behind a desk or something like that. That was never something I could see myself doing, so I just kind of right on. Where did you go to school? I actually did online courses through Ascotia.[00:04:56]Okay, I've seen that. Yeah. What did you think of that? It's pretty cool. It's obviously can't be as indepth as in person culinary school, but it's a lot of pictures and videos and very detailed descriptions of taste and stuff like that.[00:05:15]There's a whole chart that they provide you with taste descriptions and stuff. So it's a pretty interesting class or course. They have a menu class and a couple of business classes and stuff like that. So if you're not somewhere where you can actually go in person to a culinary school, it's the next best thing. Okay, so you would recommend it to someone else?[00:05:38]Yeah, if that's the way that they want to go. Because obviously you don't have to go to culinary school. That's not always the way people need to go to be amazing chefs. I just wanted to do it to advance my knowledge and stuff a little bit more. Yeah, absolutely.[00:05:59]I think that's the biggest misconception about any kind of culinary school or education where people think they're coming out just going to be the next I don't know who they think they're going to be, but it's really just about establishing foundations to grow upon. Yeah, absolutely. Right on. So, watermelon carvings. I see that quite a bit on your social media.[00:06:19]You kind of mentioned that a few times too. So what got you into carving fruit? Yeah, like I said before, I was working on our banquet department, and I don't even really remember how I came across seeing that stuff somewhere and being like, this is what we need to start doing. I just started playing around with it, just doing basic flowers and basic designs and stuff and got to where I could do those fairly decently and then started doing business logos and stuff for different companies that came through for banquets and yeah, it just went from there. That's kind of my specialty now, is doing, like, logos and Wording and stuff like that.[00:07:00]That's pretty cool because, honestly, when it comes to that garbage side of things and it's so much more than just putting meat and cheese on a plate, which I think just is kind of what a lot of people associate it with. But there's a whole art to it. Yeah, absolutely.[00:07:19]When it comes to some of this watermelon or carvings and some of the sculpture work, it's almost a lost start because a lot of hotels and casinos well, I shouldn't say casinos, but hotels in general seem to be moving away from anything. That what I would consider, like, time. I don't know, something that takes a lot of time.[00:07:41]Yeah, absolutely. Because we've had garbage chefs out here before that did that stuff and they did away with the position and stuff. I'm curious, like, what it was that you saw or found or what part of the carvings that just said, man, this is fun, I enjoy this because my side, if it came to me, I would look at it and just be kind of like, Fuck me.[00:08:09]What part of you was just like, Hell, yeah, let's do this, and really got it kind of got into it because it's you know, everything we do is very passion oriented. Right. So think part of it's the fact that it it forces me to slow down. You know, my my life is constantly go go, you know, work and four kids and all that. So whenever I'm doing a carving, it just forces me to just stop.[00:08:34]And that's all I'm focused on. When I get into it, I put my headphones on and play some music, and I just can go for several hours without ever even looking up. So it just really it's almost like I get into, like, a Zen mode or something whenever I'm doing it. Right. It's almost like your own little meditation.[00:08:53]Yeah. What's the average time it takes to do a carving? It just kind of depends on how intricate it is. Usually two to 3 hours. What happens if you screwed up?[00:09:06]That just depends on how bad I screw up. Sometimes if it's a little mistake, I can work around it and figure out something to kind of hide it or make it blend in, whatever in which it's not really noticeable. But there's been times where I've been three, four of the way through carving and then realized, man, that part was not supposed to be cut out. And then I got to start over because I can't fix that. Right.[00:09:37]So the next part. You mentioned kind of offline here, that you wanted to kind of start learning some ice carving. Yeah. So that's kind of the next venture. We're going to bring in some ice carving tools and bring in some blocks of ice and just kind of start playing around with it like I did watermelons and see what I can do and trying to start doing that in house.[00:10:02]Okay. Are they buying ice carvings right now? Not, like, on a regular basis. For some of our VIP events and stuff? They have brought in an ice carbon and had them do some stuff, but it's not, like, on a regular basis.[00:10:19]That's pretty few and far between. But having one in house that can do it, all of our big events and stuff, we could start making it a more regular thing. No, I get it. Yeah, it was ice carving as well. That's just one of those.[00:10:35]Not a lot of people out there that do that. Yeah. So something about a chainsaw and a block of ice. That is always kind of all right. Yeah.[00:10:44]The only thing I'll have to get used to is just working in the cold because I'm not very cold friendly. Yeah. Well, I'm sure at a certain point, you get over that part. Yeah. I'm sure you get accustomed to it after a while.[00:10:59]So what inspires you? What drives you every day to kind of go in and just be like, hell, yeah, let's do this. Yeah. My biggest inspiration, I'd have to say, is definitely my wife and kids. They want to make me be a better husband, dad, chef, man all around.[00:11:21]So I know that I got to get up every day and bust ass. So that way they'll have a good future ahead of them. Right on. Is there anything online, like food related or things you've seen where you aspire to or chase after outside of the family? Yes, I want to keep advancing in my chef career.[00:11:47]Right now, I'm obviously just kind of really getting into the garmers stuff, so I'm going to do that for a while and try and really become an expert on that stuff. And then who knows where we'll go from there. I plan on being at the casino probably for quite a while until my kids are out of school and stuff, so I'm going to be here a long time. So there's always room for advancement here as far as moving into executive chef bar and stuff like that. Yeah, no, casino is not going anywhere.[00:12:22]Yeah. So everybody's kind of got that moment that they kind of questioned everything, where you're just kind of like, what the hell am I doing? What have I got myself into? Have you had that moment? Have you had it yet?[00:12:37]And if so, is that something you want to share? Almost every day, I have that moment. No, there's definitely been times where working and being stuck in the cafe, cooking burgers and chicken fried steak and stuff every single day and just non stop tickets. And I'm just like, didn't feel like my career was really going anywhere. And so I just see all these other positions in the casino, car dealers and stuff like that, that are working three or four days a week and taking home twice as much, if not more than I was.[00:13:18]And it's just like, man, is this really what I want to do? But I just stuck through any of those moments and just knew that if I put up with all the bullshit and stuff, it would start paying off and getting this garmerge position and stuff. It's obviously kind of starting to pay off. So definitely happy I stuck through it. Yeah, it definitely seems like you've kind of found your little niche in the kitchen as well.[00:13:51]Yeah, definitely. So tell me about some of your VIP events. I mean, you kind of mentioned that whether it's ice carving and stuff, like offline, we were talking and I said that the one shift no one really talks about. You mentioned the VIP events. Yeah.[00:14:08]So they have the renewal events for them, which is just once a year. We have big VIP events all through the year. But there's one, they have one every October, and it's like the biggest event of the year. And it's two weekends, friday, Saturday, Sunday, two weekends in a row. And it's like 2000 people each weekend that we're doing these events for.[00:14:35]And so it's just those two weeks are just brutal. Everybody is working six, seven days a week and working just stupid hours sometimes. And all these VIP people, you're in the events and they just, you know, I'm sure you probably know how some VIP people can be. They're not always the easiest to deal with sometimes, but it's just a really grueling two weeks. And the other venues in the casino, they get short staff because we have to pool them and the chefs from those venues to help with these events and stuff.[00:15:17]And it's hectic. Yeah, I don't miss some of those events. And it's funny. Like the VIP people, there are two types of VIPs. One that are just kind of used to it.[00:15:32]It is what it is. And they might have some awkward demands or high maintenance stuff, but for the most part they're fairly chill. And then you're going to have the other ones that it's probably the first time they've ever been considered a VIP. Yeah. And so they go into it like, I'm going to use the fuck out of this.[00:15:52]And they're just like, how far can I go with this? And it's just like, just don't be a dick. Come on. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes I don't understand it's.[00:16:03]Like, we're just here to make you all happy and feed you all and take care of you. You could just treat everybody a little bit nicer, but yes, if it weren't for those people, we wouldn't have jobs.[00:16:21]But yeah, those VIP people, man, like you said, there's a really awesome, really chill one and then you got the exact opposite of that. But at the end of those events, no matter how worn out and tired you are and stuff, you always feel really accomplished because you always pull off this awesome event that none of the guests see behind the scenes and stuff. Everything that's going wrong and all the craziness that happens before these events, they always go out smoothly and without a hitch and stuff. So it's pretty magical. That's a great way to put it.[00:17:12]Magical. I mean, you're spot on there because it's all the work and all the planning and then just day of it's kind of like all that prep work you put into the big game and you're just executing, you're following through and you're going to have the hiccups. But you've got all your planning done, so you're prepared for the call those audibles when you need them. And then afterwards, you're right. It's just magical because you just feel fantastic afterwards.[00:17:43]I've never done events of that scale, especially back to back, but I know when it comes to putting a large event together. But I always remember the next day, I was pretty much dead to the world.[00:17:59]Mentally. I was just done. I just didn't have anything left. I just woke up and it was just fucking much. And it was just everything just kind of I put everything into it and it was just going.[00:18:13]And then I went to bed and everything shut off. And I woke up and I was just like, I need to do it. Yeah, after those two back to back weekends, everybody tries to take two, if not three days. If they can do it off that following week. Yeah, if you can do it, that's a big ask for a large group of people.[00:18:38]So your biggest concerns facing the industry today, whether it's hotels, restaurants, this is kind of a big question for a lot of people because post COVID things are different. Yeah, definitely. They're very different.[00:19:02]And there's some adaptations. Adaptions audibles will go with Audibles. There's some audibles we've had to kind of call that have become kind of permanent and we're still kind of working through a lot of different things. But what is your biggest concern? What do you see is this industry facing that's just kind of like you're like, oh, shit, how are we going to get through?[00:19:30]This is kind of a collective.[00:19:34]Yeah, so here locally at least, anyways, that's definitely one of our biggest concerns is just getting employees, people that actually want to be in the kitchen and not just take it as a job and then move on in six months.[00:19:56]It's been a constant struggle since we reopened from COVID And that's going on like, what? Almost two years now that we've been back open. So it's everywhere around here. All the restaurants and stuff here locally are short staffed. And even the whole of our restaurants in the casino are constantly short staffed.[00:20:25]Our banquets department right now, I mean, we're running with like, five people. So it's a struggle. Yeah, because the guests and your people coming in, they've got their expectations. Regardless of what you have available. Have you had to make some adjustments on menus and what you can do.[00:20:52]For them not really being at the casino, no matter what, they have expectation of our standards of what especially our banquets team is to put out. And so when we need help, the other venues are good about lending as cooks and chefs and stuff to help us execute things. That's one awesome thing about being in a casino.[00:21:28]It's not all on you. You have an executive team behind you to help you out, and you have multiple other venues that are, you know, that consider you all one team that, you know, will lend a hand when needed. I got you. That helps quite a bit, I'm sure. Yeah, definitely.[00:21:45]Now, when it comes to staffing, what do you think it is with your specific situation or the casino that struggles with staffing? And I ask this because staffing is a very it's become kind of a tricky question or concern because there's people that didn't want to come back to the restaurants or whatever the hospitality will say for a lot of reasons. A lot of cooks didn't want to come back just because of a lot of work, a lot of pay, and some cooks just found other jobs when things were closed and just never came back. Some people say it was the toxic culture, which I don't know if I necessarily buy into that too much, but what is it that you think it is? Why people aren't coming back?[00:22:40]And has your hotel or have you guys done anything to try to address that? Yeah, I think at least for here anyways. One of the hardest things about getting people to work in the kitchen is they see these other jobs that are available at the casinos, car dealers and cage cashiers and stuff like that, that are only working three or four days a week and take home quite a bit more money. So they're like, well, why would I want to bust my ass five, six days a week, 810, sometimes twelve more hours, and take home shit for money when I could go learn how to deal cards for a few. Weeks and then work four days a week for, you know, probably less than 8 hours and be taken home, you know, upwards of, you know, $80,000 a year.[00:23:36]So that's definitely one struggle that we have had here, for sure. But the casino, whenever we reopen from COVID they were offering higher on incentives, like $500 or $1,000 bonus. I can't remember which one it was. But, you know, they're offering on A, you know, higher on bonus and stuff for it to try and get more associates into the F and B department. Right.[00:24:05]Has your base pay increased since then? Not yours specifically, but just kind of yeah. I can't remember if the minimum wage starting out here for the casino, if it raised, it was either right before COVID happened or right after. But they did right around all the time the pandemic and stuff was happening. They raised the base pay for cooks and stuff.[00:24:34]So I think starting out, it's like between 13 and $15 an hour right now, I think. So it's pretty decent for starting out. Cook job definitely more than what I made whenever I started as a line cook. No, I mean, even then, when I started as a lion cook a long time ago, man, I was probably $9, $10 an hour. Yeah, I think mine was, but we're.[00:25:07]Talking over 20 years ago. So the fact that we're only yeah, the fact that after 20 years, it's only gone up $5 to me, that's concerning. Yeah, right. But this is also something that I dealt with with my restaurants and the ownership group and try to talk to them about pay rates. And it was just man, it was kind of sad where some of that was.[00:25:35]Yeah, it's almost like our cooks and stuff, it's not really like we're looked down upon or anything, but almost. It'S. Almost like people don't think that working in a kitchen is so difficult that we should make a decent wage. Yeah, it's kind of sad where the cooks has started out as kind of I don't want to call it a profession. It wasn't necessarily profession.[00:26:04]The chefs were the profession. The cooks were kind of a stop gap, if you will. It was just kind of where people were they were cooking because they were just in between jobs or didn't have anything else. And so I think that's where the pay came from, maybe. But it's amazing how many people don't realize that it is such a learned skill that it is incredibly valued just to maintain your people and not have to continue to retrain people just for retention purposes.[00:26:37]Yeah, definitely. And you see places like McDonald's and stuff, like starting out at, like $17 an hour. You know some places now, and it's like, well, shit, you know, these guys are like, I can just go flip hamburgers and drop some fries and a fryer at McDonald's for more than what I'm making. Busting my ass on this hotline every day.[00:27:02]That's hard to argue with, right? Yeah. Some of them I'm like, well, I honestly can't blame you. You got to make a living. So somewhere is going to pay you more money for what I would consider easier job, then why wouldn't you in some cases?[00:27:24]Yeah. Because the restaurant can consume you in a lot of ways, and it can be kind of abusive. Not from abusive. And the fact that you've got chefs and everybody yelling at you, but it's. Just the work itself.[00:27:41]Yeah, exactly.[00:27:45]I don't think a lot of people realize how laborious it is to be on a 900 degree line every day. Oh, minimum. And for those that really give a shit what they're doing, when they don't get that recognition or when stuff starts coming back to them, or they get treated kind of that like they are that second person or the second rate citizen kind of thing, in some places, it is just so demoralizing.[00:28:19]And then all of a sudden, they go from that give a shit to, you know what? I could give a fuck. Yeah. Which is, unfortunately, I've seen that, and that's the last thing this restaurant industry needs. Yeah.[00:28:36]I've seen a lot of wasted potential. I've seen a lot of line cooks. That, man, if you just would really work hard at it, you could be an amazing cook and an amazing chef someday, but they just their heart's not in it to want to do that. We'll wrap this up with two questions I ask everybody towards the end, all right? One tool that you cannot live without.[00:29:06]I would definitely just have to say my two and a half inch little tiny fruit carving knife.[00:29:17]It has done me well for lots of projects. Okay. And then cookbooks, whether it's professional or not, personal, but kind of at home. What do you go to whether it's do you read cookbooks? Yeah, I read cookbooks.[00:29:43]Go ahead. But what's the ones you find yourself drawn to the most?[00:29:51]So pretty much anything to do with barbecuing. Obviously. I'm in the northern part of the south, but I'm in the south of barbecue is a huge thing around us, and I've barbecued my entire life. And so I love reading different books about that. But one cookbook, I'm currently not even really a cookbook, it's almost more of like a textbook from the CIA that's the Art of Charcuterie, because that's trying to start learning how to make all my own sausages and prosciutto and stuff like that.[00:30:37]So that's kind of the one I've had my nose in lately. Right. So, Riley new cook, starting off, what would you tell them.[00:30:50]If you don't have kids and a family? Travel. Try and work in as many kitchens as you can without floating around too much and screwing jobs over by leaving them too early. But learn as much as you can.[00:31:10]I'm not exactly the picture perfect person to be saying this, but stay healthy.[00:31:20]Don't let the underbelly of the kitchen consume you. Try and eat right. Don't smoke, don't drink. Don't do drugs, because you definitely regret it later on in life. Now, when it comes to, like you mentioned, don't drink with the drugs, that's almost so much of the restaurant culture, the cook culture.[00:31:47]Why do you think that comes from. Probably a lot of it's just because the job is so grueling sometimes got long hours. And see a lot of guys need something to keep them up and wait going during the day and then need something to put you out quick at the end of the night. Almost that it's been glamorized and shit a little bit. So they almost see it as a lot of guys kind of see it like rock star lifestyle.[00:32:22]It's definitely not worth it because we're not rock stars. We don't have the money to be we're blowing on booze and drugs every day. That's why bust your ass and earn that money for something that's going to run your life later on. Yeah. And then also leave you broke.[00:32:45]Yeah, exactly. Good words. All right, Riley. Well, I really appreciate your time today, sir. Yeah, thanks for having me on, man.[00:32:54]I appreciate it. I enjoyed it. And thanks for listening to this episode of Inside the Pressure Cooker. If you haven't already, please subscribe to the show and leave us a comment. We'd love to hear from you on how we're doing.[00:33:06]And lastly, if you'd like to be on the show, go to Inside the Pressurecooker.com and fill out the form. It'll tell me a little bit about you, some of your story and how it applies to the show. We'd love to hear from you and love to have you you on the show.When Lawyers Get Involved You Have To Have a DisclaimerTo help pay for the costs of running this podcast we use affiliate links from which we earn a commission from your purchase at no additional cost to you.Riverside.FMRecorded using Riverside.FM - The best solution I have found for recording my podcast. Free and Paid Plans are Available. The free plan works great for many small and start-up podcasters.

Starting a travel business when no one wants to travel might seem like a bad idea, but it can offer lessons for the long term that ultimately create success. In this episode we speak with Steve Witt the Co-Founder of The Travel Franchise and customer facing brand Not Just Travel, as he explains how he did just that and how he is now helping other people to create success for themselves. We also speak about: - Making mistakes in starting a business - Never being employed - The rise of Cyber Cafes - Advertising holidays on Teletext - Creating a great experience - Travel during & after Covid - And much, much more! You can find The Travel Franchise website here - https://www.the-travel-franchise.com/ Thanks for watching and if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to hit the subscribe button for the latest episodes! For more insights into the franchising world check out The Franchised at - www.thefranchised.com

Battle4Freedom (2022) Affirming the Assinine - The Civil War for Intellectual IntegrityStreaming Live on Rumble @ https://rumble.com/v1rghoa-battle4freedom-2022-affirming-the-assinine-the-civil-war-for-intellectual-i.htmlWebsite: http://www.battle4freedom.comRumble: https://www.rumble.com/c/battle4freedomMojo50 Radio: https://www.mojo50.com/Great Coffee: https://www.americanprideroasters.com/Biofeedback Therapy: https://www.newlifeholistic.comhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11386139/Pfizer-announces-two-one-vaccine-Covid-flu.htmlPfizer announces two-in-one vaccine for Covid AND flu — which it hopes will boost sluggish uptake for both shotshttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11383611/Ebola-leaked-biofacility-causing-2014-West-Africa-outbreak-scientists-claim.htmlDid EBOLA leak from a lab? Scientists claim accident at US-funded biofacility may have caused 2014 West Africa outbreakhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11379369/RENU-MUKHERJEE-one-question-Justice-Thomas-exposed-affirmative-action-myth.htmlWith one devastating question, Justice Clarence Thomas exposed the myth that affirmative action can smash 'groupthink.' In truth, our universities are more viciously intolerant than ever, writes RENU MUKHERJEEhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11385903/Ex-CIA-staffer-claims-Christian-white-men-primed-start-civil-war-America.htmlCalifornia professor and ex-CIA staffer claims that 'Christian, white men' are primed to start a civil war in America because they 'were once dominant and are in decline' - and blames the right for spike in violent extremismhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOQuymOvZzohttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11387155/The-View-host-Sunny-Hostin-says-white-women-voting-Republican-like-roaches-voting-raid.htmlRoom for any other Views? Outrage as show's Sunny Hostin likens white women voting Republican to 'roaches voting for Raid', Joy Behar calls party a 'cult' and Sara Haines says all GOP candidates are 'election deniers'https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11387801/Shots-fired-Republican-candidate-Pat-Harrigans-North-Carolina-home.htmlRepublican candidate's daughters, three and five, are almost KILLED after gunman opens fire at North Carolina home - with bullet landing close to where they slept: Democrat rival pulls campaign ad he filmed outside propertyhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11388303/Hillary-says-GOP-crime-ads-offer-no-solutions-just-scary-pictures-scary-music.htmlHillary Clinton says Republican crime ads offer 'no solutions' and are just 'scary pictures and scary music' as she campaigns with Kamala Harris for Kathy Hochulhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11389139/Homeless-man-Carl-Phanor-does-silent-perp-walk-wearing-Tyvek-suit-arrested-rape.htmlWhere's the outrage? Homeless man with 25 prior arrests is perp walked after 'raping jogger, 43, in Manhattan's West Village' - as New York governor and mayor BOTH remain silent on horrific crimehttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11387209/Israels-PM-concedes-defeat-Benjamin-Netanyahu-nation-faces-right-wing-government.htmlIsrael's PM concedes defeat to Benjamin Netanyahu in this week's election – as the nation prepares for its most right-wing government

Been a minute, huh?! That's what happens when two of us get COVID AND one of us gets married.. BUT NOTHING IS STOPPING THIS PODCAST. Here we are to discuss the movies of August and September 2022. AUGUST / SEPTEMBER Prey- dir. Dan Trachtenberg; Amber Midthunder, Dakota Beavers, Michelle Thrush, Stormee Kipp Bodies Bodies Bodies- dir. Halina Reijn; Amandla Stenberg, Maria Bakalova, Myha'la Herrold, Rachel Sennott, Chase Sui Wonders, Lee Pace, Pete Davidson Orphan: First Kill- dir. William Brent Bell; Isabelle Fuhrman, Julia Stiles, Rossif Sutherland, Matthew Finlan Three Thousand Years of Longing- dir. George Miller; Tilda Swinton, Idris Elba Barbarian- dir. Zach Cregger; Georgina Campbell, Bill Skarsgård, Justin Long, Richard Brake Memoria- dir. Apichatpong Weerasethakul; Tilda Swinton They / Them- dir. John Logan; Theo Germaine, Kevin Bacon, Qui Tann, Anna Chlumsky, Austin Crute Goodnight Mommy- dir. Matt Sobel; Naomi Watts, Cameron Crovetti, Nicholas Crovetti The Woman King - Directed by Gina Prince-Bythewood; Viola Davis, Lashana Lynch, John Boyega Pearl- dir. Ti West; Mia Goth, David Corenswet, Tandi Wright, Emma Jenkins-Purro Don't Worry Darling- dir Olivia Wilde; Florence Pugh, Harry Styles, Chris Pine, Nick Kroll, Gemma Chan Bros- dir. Nicholas Stoller; Billy Eichner, Luke Macfarlane Hocus Pocus 2- dir. Anne Fletcher; Bette Midler, Sarah Jessica Parker, Kathy Najimy, Whitney Peak, Belissa Escobedo, Lilia Buckingham, Sam Richardson, Doug Jones Smile- dir. Parker Finn; Sosie Bacon, Kyle Gallner, Caitlin Stasey, Jessie T. Usher, Gillian Zinser Movies of October: OCTOBER My Best Friend's Exorcism Terrifier 2 Lyle, Lyle, Crocodile Amsterdam Hellraiser TAR Triangle of Sadness Grimcutty Halloween Ends Decision to Leave V/H/S/99 The Banshees of Inisherin Black Adam --------------------------------------------------- iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/movies-are-reel/id1082173626 Google Play: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL2ZlZWRzLnNvdW5kY2xvdWQuY29tL3VzZXJzL3NvdW5kY2xvdWQ6dXNlcnM6MjAzOTE2MTg4L3NvdW5kcy5yc3M Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2VE15E5fS0ZWtESo9bUWhn?si=e983275eb550499c Jurge - twitter: twitter.com/jcruzalvarez26 Letterboxed: letterboxd.com/jcruzalvarez26/​ Ryan- twitter: twitter.com/MrPibbOfficial Letterboxed: letterboxd.com/filmpiece/​ Karrie - twitter: twitter.com/kar_elyles Letterboxed: letterboxd.com/karrie/

Maria T. Rothenburger, a therapist, coach, best-selling author, and intuitive empath, shares a plethora of messages she has received from spirit babies who have yet to be born due to fertility issues, miscarriage, abortion, timing, and more! In today's episode we cover what spirit babies have to say about: Miscarriage and Abortion Soul Agreements How many souls could be choosing one embryo Choosing parents Parental attachments Choosing names Choosing astrological signatures and timing Fertility advice Being born during Covid And so much more! CONNECT W/ MARIA T. ROTHENBURGER WEBSITE: https://www.drmariarothenburger.com/ FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/DrMariaRothenburger/ IG: https://www.instagram.com/drmarialpc/ PODCAST: https://shows.acast.com/miracleshappenfertilitypodcast BOOK A SESSION w/ NICOLE https://www.nicolefrolick.com/services SUBSCRIBE & FOLLOW If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe to iTunes and leave me a 5 star review! This is what helps the podcast stand out from the crowd and allows me to help people find a refreshing spin on spirituality with a great blend of entertainment and credible advice. All Links: https://linktr.ee/nicolefrolick Website: http://nicolefrolick.com/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/nicolefrolick Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicolefrolick/ Telegram: https://t.me/nicolefrolickofficial Spotify: shorturl.at/fikF7 iTunes: http://apple.co/2ve7DtE PayPal: https://paypal.me/inflexibleme Alcheme: https://alchemyacademy.teachable.com/p/alcheme Merchandise: https://streamlabs.com/nicolefrolick/merch --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/enlightenup/support

Live from the No Panic Zone—I'm Steve Gruber—I am America's Voice—God Bless America—God Bless You and lets do this! This is the Steve Gruber show—and I am here to tell you the truth—the New Dr. of Democracy—and my prescription will cure this nation—BUT you have to follow Doctors orders!   Here are three big things you need to know right now—   ONE— Elon Musk—found some more cash in his pocket—and now the bid to own Twitter—is up to $46.5 Billion dollars—so he is in this thing for sure!   TWO— The Ship of Fools at CNN continues to sink—in a spectacular and embarrassing fashion—as CNN+ the new streaming service—announced it is shutting down after less than one month—nice job everyone!   THREE— The reckoning of 2022—is picking up momentum already—it began in Virginia in November of 2021—with the rejection of Joe Biden Democrats—and the rejection of radical socialist policies—and for the first time in years—Virginia statewide offices—in fact all of them—turned Red—   Then came the shocking rejection of School Board members that were radical leftists all over the country—including the recall of 3 School Board members in San Francisco—and the only reason—the city recalled and tossed out 3—is because they couldn't kick out more—   Across the country—the failing Socialist agenda is pummeling the Democrats—just yesterday the Cook Political Report—that claims to be non-partisan but still leans left—shifted 8 more Democrat seats once considered safe—to the Toss-Up or worse category—   That means so far there are 27 seats that Democrats once thought they could hold—that are slipping away—and that's before Florida finalizes its new Congressional lines—that could put 3 more blue seats in the history books—and a couple more in New Hampshire—   In Nevada—2 more seats shifted Red too—along with the Senate Race and the contest for Governor—all over the country—people are running from the Democrats—and they are from all sectors—   Hispanics—the demographic the Socialist Democrats have been counting on for years to fall into line—are rejecting radical positions on abortion—the border and taxes—   Young people too are saying goodbye to the Democrats—that have tried to buy by forgiving college debt—BUT nothing is working for Senile Joe Biden and the left—   In fact the Red Reckoning that is coming—will be of historical proportions—and will change this nation for generations—and may well leave the progressives as little more than a regional party— the virus was never Covid—   And in the face of all this failure—it is stunning to hear—Bernie Sanders says he will run for President again—if Joe Biden does not—and to that I say—please—please—pretty please Bernie—do it—do it for me—and can you ask Hillary to run again too?  

This week's guest is Corey Spiegel, Founder and CEO of Lighthouse. Lighthouse is a diverse community of smart women who support one another through various groups and classes.Light House was born out of Corey reaching a crossroads in her own career and really wanting a “board of directors” for her life when she was making a major decision. After considering close friends and family to advise, she realized that there was value in getting advice. Light House began as a place for women only but has recently expanded to include topics that are designed for men.We talk about:Corey leaving her 25 year career as an entertainment and digital marketing executive to start her own companyThe importance of conversation in current times and the need to take responsibility for our words and actions with grace and patience to understand othersSetting boundariesTransitioning her business from in-person only to online during COVID And more!Note from Rabiah (Host): Corey touched on something very important in this episode which was connection and sharing of our stories. Both resonated with me A LOT. She has created a space for both that is really unique. We have a lot in common when it comes to that and it has manifested itself in different ways for us. I'm become more and more careful about who I personally hold space with and for and think we all deserve to be discerning about that. I hope you enjoy this episode! +++++ Find CoreyWebsite: https://www.findyourlighthouse.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/findyour_lighthouse and https://www.instagram.com/findyourlhlite Email: corey@findyourlighthouse.com +++++ More than Work Facebook, Instagram, Twitter: @morethanworkpod Please review and follow anywhere you get podcasts. Thank you for listening. Have feedback? Email morethanworkpod(at)gmail.com!

Emma Beswick is a Nutritional Therapist and nutrigenomics specialist. She is the founder and CEO of Lifecode Gx®, the UK's leading nutrigenomics testing, research and training company. Emma lectures widely on the subject of nutrigenomics and is well respected for her knowledge and ability to present complex aspects of nutrigenomics in an accessible and clinical relevant way.  We sit down to discuss how are nutrition and genetics are linked to COVID-19. We cover: - Vitamin status - Male vs Female stats - Genetics and risk of severe COVID - And much, much more https://www.lifecodegx.com/ https://www.instagram.com/lifecodegx/ https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching    

In this episode, Pain Scientist, Clinician, and Distinguished Professor at the University of South Australia, Lorimer Moseley, talks about pain and research. Today, Lorimer talks about his many streams of research, assessing cognitive flexibility, and his MasterSessions. What is cognitive flexibility and how does it affect pain? Hear about the social determinants of pain, COVID's impact on Pain Revolution, the complexity of chronic pain, and the responsibility that comes with doing pain research, all on today's episode of The Healthy, Wealthy & Smart Podcast.   Key Takeaways “One of the biggest determinants of your health in the US is your zip code.” “[Cognitive flexibility is] the ability of your system to change its behaviour when the task requirements or conditions change.” “If you're going to label something, it should be what it says it's doing.” “[chronic pain] is one of the most burdensome health conditions in the world.” “There's genuine, realistic, scientifically-based reason to hope things will keep improving for people with chronic pain.” “Love and be love.”   More about Lorimer Moseley Lorimer is Bradley Distinguished Professor at the University of South Australia. He is a pain scientist, clinician and educator. He has made seminal contributions to how we understand pain and why it sometimes persists and has developed treatments that are now considered front line interventions in clinical guidelines internationally. He has authored 370 research articles and seven books. His contributions have been recognised by government or professional societies in 13 countries. In 2020, he was made an Officer of the Order of Australia for distinguished contributions to humanity at large in the fields of pain science and pain medicine, science communication, pain education and physiotherapy. He lives and works on Kaurna Country in Adelaide, Australia.   Suggested Keywords Healthy, Wealthy, Smart, Physiotherapy, Pain, Research, Cognitive Flexibility, Chronic Pain, Perception, Responsibility, Recovery,   Notable Mentions Caitlin Howlett. Dan Harvie. Pain and Perception, by Dan Harvie and Lorimer Moseley. Epiphaknee, by Lorimer Moseley, David Butler, and Tasha Stanton. Participate in research (it takes just 20 minutes). MasterSessions.   To learn more, follow Lorimer at: Website:          https://www.tamethebeast.org                         https://www.painrevolution.org                         https://people.unisa.edu.au/Lorimer.Moseley   Subscribe to Healthy, Wealthy & Smart: Website:                      https://podcast.healthywealthysmart.com Apple Podcasts:          https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/healthy-wealthy-smart/id532717264 Spotify:                        https://open.spotify.com/show/6ELmKwE4mSZXBB8TiQvp73 SoundCloud:               https://soundcloud.com/healthywealthysmart Stitcher:                       https://www.stitcher.com/show/healthy-wealthy-smart iHeart Radio:               https://www.iheart.com/podcast/263-healthy-wealthy-smart-27628927 Read The Full Transcript Here:  00:03 Hi, Lorimer, welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you back on.   00:08 Good. Thanks for having me.   00:10 And so today we've got a lot to cover, because we are going to be talking about some of your current projects, new developments that maybe happened since 2021, where you had well over 30 publications. So you had a very, very busy year, I would say. But as we go, as we kind of go through and talk about some of the things that you're working on, I just want you to let me know if there's anything that you're like, Whoa, hey, I can't talk about that. Or if there is reason to be a little vague, because things might be ongoing trials and things like that. So we'll definitely keep that in mind. Now, let's say you've had a lot of publications over the last year, what are some current projects, or discoveries or developments that really stuck out for you in your most recent research?   01:08 Ah, nice question. Um, one of the things about being a scientist in a clinical field is that here, it's not often that you get a revolutionary discovery, it's quite unusual. So what I think the things that I'm most excited about are not, not so so much particular papers, although there, there are some really tiny phones, there's one that's not published yet, but will will be out in the next couple of months that I'm particularly excited about. And I can allude to that. But I think sort of like these, these streams of research in which I'm involved that are turning me on a bit, the moment and one of those is a continuation of the whole explain pain thing. But over the last sort of four or five years, we have discovered, we've looked really closely at but at the the outcomes of clinical practice in where people are delivering great educative interactions and, and I've had a fair degree of, of influence over them. So I feel really confident that I did, they're supposedly doing well. And those data from a big cohort of people suggests that, in about half of the people with chronic pain, they see they have this shift in understanding of the problem, but a real flip. And it's in a predictable way, you know, shifting towards really deep in your belly can conceptualizing pain as a protective feeling that's being produced for a reason. And we need to work out what that reason is, and it will almost well, it will certainly not be a single reason, there'll be all these little contributors. So real flipping, understanding. And, and I guess, understanding that as pain persists, the system becomes over protective, and, and really embracing that as a reality. And that's a really hard thing to do. But those those half of the people who do it has great outcomes a year later. That's a for me, that's a really exciting discovery. The half of the people who don't don't have great apples. So for me, again, it's a really exciting discovery. The problem is that we're only winning in half the people. You know, we're only nailing it in half the people and the interventions good across seems to be good across everyone. So clearly, our markers are what's good intervention, they're not accurate. So my gut feeling about that was not accurate. So we've been looking deeply at how, how can we expand that group from half to bigger and, and unexpectedly for me, doubling down on the on the criticality of learning. So I've been learning a lot about learning. And that's been infiltrating our research and infiltrating the whole way we go about helping people with chronic pain or at risk of chronic pain. And so I'm really excited about that. And we're seeing its scientists talk about seeing a signal amongst the noise. And in chronic pain, there's just so much noise, right? Because chronic pain is this truly, in my view, truly bio psycho biggest and it's more or less social thing. And if we can intervene and see a signal in that group, that's a really exciting development. And   05:03 I, I'm more excited than I was maybe seven or eight years ago about the potential power of of new and better ways to get people to give people understand. And I started banging on about this in conferences and stuff maybe three or four years ago. And I have this slide that that is intentionally slightly provocative, particularly to the physical therapy world. And that sort of pain science education world, I think in in the US the brand name as popular as paid in neuroscience, education, p and E. These are all brand names, right? PMA expired pain is a brand name. So I like to avoid the brand name. So I call it sort of pain science education or modern pain education. So this slide is meant to be slightly provocative, in say, has education become the objective, instead of learning being the objective, and I think for me, education became the objective. And that was a mistake that, that I made. And I think my research made that mistake, and my clinical practice probably made that mistake. And my own outcomes over the last 10 years, and I get I keep really tight audit data, I can see the benefit of my own development as a, as a clinician, educator, and probably as a human on outcomes. So I'm excited about that, for sure. And I can give a little, a little teaser to the paper that we expect to come out the next couple of months in a big journal near you, which looks at a clinical trial of chronic back pain, where we have done two things that I think are really unusual for our field. One is we've tested, I think, a new complex intervention. And it's made up of less new interventions, but they're all sort of put together into a package if you like. And the other thing that was different that we did that, that are Yeah, I think I'm really proud of the team led by James McCauley is the senior author on it. And Ben once and I were important in sort of formulating the treatment, but Ben's been really critical. But we were all very keen to make the control group the best placebo intervention, we could. So we put a lot of effort into credible brain targeted treatments, matching the educative component. And testing whether people had different expectations or perceived credibility or beliefs about whether they are in treatment or not. So from my perspective, it's a very tight trial. And James and I were fully expecting that we would not see a signal in this. But we would be interested in secondary analyses which tell us mediating effects like what, even though there wasn't an overall effect, where what worked, what what might have been helpful. So that's what we were expecting, but in fact, we saw a clinically important signal. And that's very unusual in back pain trials. It's if you have a control group where you've got a waiting list or usual care, or you've gotten there's been a couple of trials published slightly, or you've got open labeled saline injections, you know, these treatments that will have some sort of effect, but they're no match. Right? So you're not really asking, are the particulars throughout this treatment? Important? All of those treatments will show a signal they all they always do they show exactly the same signal. I've done those randomized control trials. So that's one thing, you can design a trial in a way that you'll show signal. But it's a bit meaningless to us as real world clinicians. Or you can design a trial that we would call an explanatory trial that says, Okay, we've kept all of these things the same in the two groups and the things that we kept the same were as much of that nonspecific therapeutic alliance engagement, credibility expectation, which, which I think is a big part of the whole pain science education thing. So I do think we have to monitor that. You might hear my dog the other   09:38 room. Right. All right. We're pet friendly around here. What's exciting   09:42 about that is that it means there's some sort of delivery bandwidth to be won, I think it might be this new piano that I discovered even better. Yeah. So anyway, so that will be coming out. I can't say anything more about that, but, but it's a really exciting development. And we've got we've got a few trials that are testing versions of these sorts of things for for different conditionals. But uh, going at the moment and the way we're constructing the education component and integrating it with the movement and loading and anti inflammatory component. So that is three pronged approach. Really exciting for me, as I, you know, I've been doing this for quite a while that feels like, I still feel like a kid. But, you know, I have been researching for a while. And this is a really exciting time, I reckon, in the chronic pain world, because I think we're starting to chug forward again, I feel like the field was stalled a bit. But jumping forward. That's one thing. And then then on the other other side research streams, one of our team called Dr. Emma Karen is doing really difficult and really important, work really well investigating the influence of social determinants of health on chronic pain outcomes. First focusing on low back pain. She's published a couple of systematic reviews, and mixed method study on that, that is pretty intimidating. For those of us trying to move the the outcomes in a positive direction, because as we were talking about before, caring that the social determinants of health are very powerful, and they're powerful in back in back pain and pain outcomes. They're really hard to shift, you know, they're very hard to do much about so. At our field, the pain, field musculoskeletal, the the sort of arthritis field has or has engaged with, it's way better than then the non Arthritis, Musculoskeletal pain, pelvic pain, Fibro fields, we, you know, it's remarkable how little attention, it gets the biggest social and when we talk about the biopsychosocial model, we nearly always conceptualize that as a smallest session and the people around you social, which is important. But we haven't really integrated the biggest social Yeah, the world in which you live in your access to health care, illiteracy. Poverty.   12:29 Yeah, that sort of stuff. Absolutely. And I think you kind of hit the nail on the head as clinicians, oftentimes when we talk about the bio psychosocial, we think of the socials, what's your support system at home? You know, do you have, you know, can you get to, can you get to therapy? Do you have access to therapy? But what we're not asking is, do you have access to other medical care? If you need it? Do you have access to fresh foods and vegetables, which we know can play a part in, let's say inflammatory responses in the body? Do you have access to a pharmacy? Do you have access? I mean, all of these things make a huge difference, you know, or do you? Is your social part of that bio, psychosocial? Are you working three jobs and raising children and not having time to fit some of this stuff in? Right? So social part becomes a really big S for a lot of people. Certainly in the United States, like I said before, one of the biggest determinants of health of your health in the United States is your zip code.   13:37 Yeah, it's remarkable.   13:40 So social determinants of health is is high priority. And I think maybe people shy away from it, because it's can be so overwhelming. So I don't know what you guys are finding research wise, if there are way and how you can address that?   13:56 Oh, it's it's overwhelming, for sure. And I totally understand why there is a reluctance to go there. And there are also I think there's very complex ethical considerations about going there. We've we've been planning a study in the northern suburbs of Adelaide where I live, which is an area that's really different to the say, the inner suburbs of Adelaide with respect to all that sort of predictable social determinants. But one question that we've had to look in the mirror about is if if we develop this so we're working on developing a screening tool. If we start to identify people that have significant unmet social needs, and we can't do anything about it, is that is that a ethically defensible position? Yeah, we were able to say to people, okay, we know what the problem is, you know, this, you can't have because we got no mechanism Have of meeting that need. So it's quite a challenging area to move into. Because if you if you imagine that the understanding and overcoming persisting pain is a very slow step by step journey. And now we really have to imagine that instead of going in a straight line, we're almost going in a circle, and we're making slow step by steps of the entire circumference of the circle, you know, and you move a little bit, then you have to stop and move a little bit more somewhere else. Otherwise, you're going to break. And the people who suffer when you break will be the same people, you know, the, the more vulnerable people. So it's a really challenging field. And yeah, I can't, I'm excited to be getting dragged along by Mr. and her colleagues on on this. But I'm also so impressed with how, how robust the approaches to it. So yeah, there's a couple of her papers out already and more, more coming. And I think there'll be really influential in the field. Because no one there are people there. There are people who are engaging in this, but very few people are thinking to themselves, I'll take on that challenge. Yeah,   16:28 yeah. Very, very difficult.   16:31 It's relevant to it's really relevant, or I guess my interest in it was sparked by our work with pain revolution, which is an outreach project program for rural areas. And it sounds like it's similar in the US. But there's there's areas in Australia not far from big cities, what we would call a big city of Adelaide a million people. There's areas two hour's drive from Adelaide that cannot get a GP or a physio, or a psychologist or an occupational therapist, to worth it. And they've got, you know, wanting four of them have a persisting pain problem that affects their lives. There's no, what do we do? What do we do about that. And so pain revolution is, is really trying to ultimately build workforce capacity. In giving people health professionals have some description, when I care what description, in fact, we were, were looking for money to try our non healthcare professional, being coached and becoming a rural coach. But the idea of that is that if people we know I think from other areas of the pain field that if if a healthcare professional of any persuasion, understands deeply contemporary pain, Science and Management, and takes a defendable, scientific, and now evidence based approach, then outcomes can be better for sure. And outcomes will be promoted by engaging in in care locally, the moment the only model we've got is a fly in fly out model, which is where, you know, the health professionals go from the city and spend a day in the country and come back a month later, in my view, of very limited benefit. Or we've got a full five model where the patients, that consumers come down to the city. And in many cases, that's a 810 12 hour drive. Get an assessment? Yeah, there's no there's no way of training those people or providing effective care for these people. So yeah, yeah.   18:55 And I, you know, yeah, no, no, you know, it this, this conversation about this kind of rural outreach and, and maybe training someone who's not in the medical field, reminded me of a documentary that I saw, Oh, gosh, I can't remember the name of it, if I can ever And i'll put it in the show notes. I can't remember it right now. But it was on it was more psychology based around loss and trauma. And there was a woman in Africa, who was not, not a psychologist, she was not trained. But she, she, I think she was trained in some basic coaching skills, but she lived in the community. And people there were more likely to go to her because she understood the community. She was part of the community and they had really good outcomes. So I'm wondering even if training someone who is not a medical professional, but if it's possible to train them even in you know, you don't have to be there in person, but would that person because they're part of this rural community, maybe have better results and someone just flying in for the month and flying out where you have someone who knows the community understands the struggles, and maybe has known some of these people their whole lives. You know, we talked about therapeutic alliances and trust and beliefs. So with people they're more likely believe someone who's part of their community than someone who's doing a fly in fly out. I don't know, it just reminded me of that documentary.   20:24 Yeah, I totally get that. And I guess we were really embracing that in, in one aspect with pain revolution, because we're training rurally based healthcare. And that was the impetus you know, they're connected to their communities and their communities are really well connected more so than certainly in Australia, in the cities. You know, you're the physio, if there is a physio will be on the sideline at the Netball day or the football game, way with the consumer, you know, these, these people's normal lives and accessibility and those things that I think reduce the power differentials that that contaminate a lot of healthcare interactions. Was it a part of our drive to drive pain revolution rurally, to tap into this already, and you know, the vision that we state, the pain revolution is that all Australians and I think we're going to change that to all people will have the skills, the knowledge and access to local resources to prevent and overcome persistent pain. And that's the real emphasis that we embed the knowledge and skills locally. And, you know, that's, you know, I've been talking to 1010 years about recovered consumers being coaches, not the healthcare person, but recovered consumers, because they have all this knowledge and expertise that no one else can have. Right.   21:56 They're very deep understanding of pain.   21:59 Absolutely, yeah. And pain, and not not only the lived experience of pain, but the lived experience of recovery. And I think that's a untapped massive resource. But there are significant regulatory medico legal barriers to us just pushing forward on that, that we're still negotiating. So that's yeah, that's been at least a decade. My perspective. But paint ray of is is so exciting. It's, it's really cool. Like, we are doing it on a shoestring. And I think we now at the end of this year, we will have, I think we'll have about 35 Local pain collective. So these are networks of healthcare professionals around geographical regions that get together, learn more about how pain works, and the best ways of treating it collectively problem solve pain, rave feeds them. curricula, but really, it's a collective problem solving facilitated group. And yeah, I think the panorama was responsible for delivering around about around about 400 community outreach sessions, amazing Australia, in the middle of COVID.   23:17 I was gonna I was gonna ask, How has COVID affected? What pain revolution has been able to do, let's say last year, as opposed to previous years?   23:29 Yeah, it's, well, it's had its impacts, for sure. And depends where you live in Australia. So two of our states have had a longer period of of living in a COVID world I guess. And in those places, there's there's been no face to face. stuff. They are 2021 outreach tour that we do. So we run this circus that gets a lot of attention raises a fair bit of money on our level of what a fair bit of money is, it's got in the commercial sector be like someone's bonus for the week. But in our sector, it keeps us alive. And we go from town to town, and we run these public outreach and health professional outreach events. We're all dressed up in library, we ride our bikes, and it's all this cool thing. And that's part of a wider program with two other projects that dovetail into that dedicated to the region. And we didn't run that in 2021. And we won't run that in 2022. And that's a big hit for us because it's our main fundraising Avenue. So that's that's a real challenge. Some states in Australia have had basically no COVID And one state still basically there's no COVID Western Australia they They pay us closed to the rest of Australia in the world. And I think they're aiming to reopen in February. Tasmania has recently reopened and they're starting to get cases. But now we're where I live. We are, we're at the beginning of our wall of Omicron. And we really don't know what this year looks like. So we don't have the experience that a lot of places do. And we're very grateful for that. But we also clearly like deer in the headlights at the moment. Federal governments are going everything. Rules are changing all the time, we and you know, we're not as prepared as you would expect us to be having had a month's notice. So that will impact pain revolution for sure. The we're a really small outfit we have I think we have 1.5 full time equivalent staff delivering hundreds of programs, or events, and we're very resilient. And yeah, well, yeah,   26:11 we'll you'll get this done. And And if people want more information, they can go to pain. revolution.org, correct. Correct? Yes. All right. So pain revolution.org, if you want more information about what pain revolution is doing, and maybe how you can help or contribute, if you so if you see if it if it aligns with what you believe in, then I suggest go for it because it is a very worthy cause for sure. And now, it's kind of switching gears a little bit something that we were speaking about sort of before we hit the record button here. And it's a concept that I had to kind of look up a little bit before our talking here. And it's that concept of cognitive flexibility. I think it's interesting. I think it's worth talking about. So I will hand the mic over to you to sort of talk a little bit more about what that is, and how does cognitive flexibility fit in with people living with pain and maybe with practitioners treating those living with pain?   27:21 Yeah, well, thanks. And again, yeah, I feel like I don't actually actually do much of the good work, it feels a little bit like because this work is has been done by Caitlin halat, who's a PhD student about to finish and has a background in psychology. We embarked on a new direction probably three years ago, with with a really sensible prediction, I think that possible contributed to not recovering after an acute episode of pain based on if people familiar with Bayesian or other predictive processing models, based on the idea that the outputs that we generate predictions and the system is influencing itself according to predictions, then we need to update the internal models of the models in order to resolve so if I was to cover that really quickly, if we, if we said, when you bend over and you don't have pain, that what what could be happening there is that your brain predicts that this will be safe, your brain produces a feeling that's consistent with that mn let's say you tweak the annulus of a intervertebral disc or something, you get no sensitive data that are that are within the sensory load. And I like to say within the Tampa symphony of Dallas, extraordinarily complex, beautifully evolved system of of information about what's happening in the tissues, we get data that says this is not what I predicted. The evaluator for this is not what I predicted. So we update the internal model to say the back is vulnerable in some way, let's say. And then the new prediction is, well, let's make pain. And let's influence the system differently. And then if we go in the other direction, and every time we've been able to get this nociceptive data within the symphony, and then one day you don't I know you've been over and and you don't get that. And now the theory is the system detects that error says Hang on. That's not what I predicted. So it updates the internal model to say the back is less vulnerable. And now your brain doesn't produce as much pain or produces no pay, and then you've recovered fantastic. So one potential barrier to recovery according to that theory is failure to update yourself. Title model. And and that should happen. If, excuse me, that shouldn't happen if you if you don't detect the error. So if for some reason you don't, your system doesn't detect that the predicted data, the predicted data, which was not receptive, in part hasn't been hasn't eventuated. And therefore you don't update your internal models. So on the basis of that, we became quite interested in this broad field of flexibility, cognitive flexibility, which has been defined in many ways. But I guess the way that we were thinking about it was the ability of your system to change its behavior are when the task requirements or conditions change. So in the language of have that sort of Bayesian idea, and to your ability to update your internal model of things. So we started digging around in this field, or Kaitlyn really started digging around in this field. And often in a PhD, you'll start with a systematic review of the literature on a question that's most most aligned with what our hypothesis will be driving. So. So Caitlin took on what we thought would be a reasonably straightforward job to review the literature in cognitive, mental and psychological flexibility. So the barrel phrases that are used, often interchangeably, particularly cognitive and mental flexibility. And with the question that would help us determine which is the best way to assess it's what's the best way to assess flexibility. And there's two broad approaches to assessment. One is self report, questionnaires. And they have they were developed out of a line of research, starting with personality tests in the 1960s. And that's this sort of this long line of stuff. And someone I can't remember who but in the, I think in the 60s or 70s.   32:18 proposed that I think it was empirically based but propose that good communicators perform the answer these sub questions in a certain way. And that research would describe them as positive and flexible people and are good communicators. And then that infiltrated the field. And we eventually got to this situation, we've got cognitive, cognitive flexibility scales, things like that. The CFS or, and there's a few of those, completely independently from that was the development of behavioral tests. The most famous and most common is a thing called the Wisconsin card sorting test. In that, in that test, you you sort cars according to one of three criteria, shape, shape, or number, I think, sorry, shape, color, or number. And the rules for sorting change, and you only realize that change when you make an error. Yeah, that so you put a card in a certain pile, and the tester or the machine goes about anything, what should work, and you have to work out what the next set of rules. And the people doing these studies somewhere in the 80s. Or maybe it was a bit later than that, call this cognitive flexibility. So we've got two independent lines, joining a company flexibility, and then that's then all the whole field just went nuts cross contaminating and all that. So Caitlin has now published and once just been accepted last week, to systematic reviews that are massive. And she had to contact authors for nearly every single one of these studies to get data, asking the question How well do those two approaches to testing 100 Flexibility correlate? Because if the system the same thing that should correlate quite well, one of those systematic reviews is in Healthy People. And one is in people with a diagnosis clinical groups. And in both of those studies, there is absolutely no relationship between those two approaches.   34:39 So you have two different tracks on how to assess cognitive flexibility, and there is no correlation between them.   34:47 Not at all. And actually a lot of the tests, there's no reliability data for them. Now, there are some cognitive psychologists who won't be surprised at that finding. And they're the informed one Who, who have been working in this field? I guess. But for people like Caitlin and I and the rest of the team on this project, where clinically, it's such an attractive hypothesis, right? Like if if people can't change their, that if people don't easily change their beliefs, explicit beliefs, their implicit beliefs about the vulnerability of their body, what pain means that the targets of pain, science education, then we know those people who don't, don't change some of those targets of pain science education, don't do as well, when we know that. So it's such an attractive hypothesis that they might be less cognitively flexible. But the barrier with hit is so how do we find out? Because we don't actually know what any of these tests are actually.   35:56 What are they actually test   35:57 measuring? Yeah, yeah. So so the direction for that, and I've asked for money haven't got it yet to do that is to devise a a new way of assessing the ability to change your decisions when there is some sort of risk evaluation involved, because I think for, for pain, I think we talked about the meaning of things being important for painting. And I think one way to distill the meaning is about just a risk profile, that every nanosecond, our system is evaluating risk, and its risk, that determines our feelings. And I would categorize pain as a feeling bad. So my anxiety, fear, fatigue, lead to the toilet, lead to a thirst, all these things, in my view, feelings generated on the appraisal of risk. And, and if we don't have any risk, in an evaluation of our ability to change your behavior, under changing circumstances, and I'm even, I'm nervous to use the phrase cognitive flexibility now, because I know that whoever he is that there are three or four main ways that you understand that. And some of those would be totally different from otherwise. So I would prefer to say, if we keep assessing the ability to change your behavior, according to changed demand or environment. without risk, then I think we might not capture what we need to capture for understanding a potential contribution to the development of chronic pain or recovering from initial pain. So so that, you know, that was one of those, one of those PhDs where it's such an important discovery, actually, and and Caitlin's contribution to the field is very important. But it won't get the citation impacts and the Roth IRA. Because what the country contribution says is, hang on everyone. Why, you know, there are a whole journals dedicated to this. But what is it? What is it, we almost have to go back and start again and say, Okay, let's get really clear on what we're talking about. Let's use these phrases. Anyway, so but that's relevant to the very first question, what are you most excited about? I guess I'm, you're tired to be excited about, clearly, deflationary discoveries like that, but they're so important. They're really important, and they're harder to publish. But they shouldn't publish, in my view, they should publish top journal. In your face. Journal. Yeah. Well,   38:49 it's, it's like, yes, it's sort of this deflated response, if you will, to, to the systematic review, but it is important because it's important to use the right words, and to if you're going to label something should be what it says it's doing. Otherwise, why are you doing these tests? And why are you you know, labeling someone as very highly flex cognitive flexibility or low cognitive flexibility when you don't really know. And then exactly, so how do you then so then your treatment, I look at it from a clinician standpoint, how do you formulate a treatment plan around something that's, that's not accurate or unknown? So I think it makes it really difficult but it's it just underlines the importance of this kind of research.   39:41 And oh, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say I think that um, it Kayla's research doesn't doesn't tell us that these tests are uninformative. But what it does tell us is that we don't We don't know exactly what they what they mean. So that speaks to your point exactly Karen, that that. So what do we do about it? That's a difficult thing, because we don't actually understand them well enough, I think. But can I put in a plug for? Yes, a research project of Caitlin. So final project for a PhD that we desperately need participants form? Yeah. Because it's an online study. Okay. And it's, it's to do with this kind of flexibility. And we need people without pain, as well as people with pain. Well, that's a lot of types of it. But basically, everyone, anyone who has 20 minutes spare. It would be great if they just went and did Caitlin's experiment online. And maybe I could send you the link.   40:48 Yes. Yeah, you send me the link, I'll put it in the show notes. And also put it out on social media. So that girl can can take this online study. So if it's people with or without pain that takes in quite a lot of people, like you said, like, one? Yeah, so I'm assuming she wants a robust number.   41:11 We need lots. Yeah. Because we think the signal will be small amongst the noise. Yeah, but yeah, if we did it, and then ask one of their family members or mate, yeah, that'd be fantastic.   41:25 Yeah, I'd be happy to send you the way about that. Yeah, definitely do. And as I was, you know, as you were talking about this cognitive flexibility, or the ability of to adapt your behavior, and let's say cognitive strategies in response to a changing task, or to a threat or something like that, it, it always reminds me of this experience that I had. So most people who listen to this note that I had a very long history of chronic pain, I think you're well aware of that as well, about 10 years or so of neck pain, chronic neck pain. And it was this was a couple of years after I could say I was recovered, you know, of course, those times when you have flare ups and things like that, but largely recovered. And I was I was at Disneyland with Sandy Hilton and Sarah Hague. And we had waited in this long line, like an hour to go on what I thought was like a jungle cruise. You know, this very, like, get on a boat and cruise around the water kind of thing. Yeah. And we get up there. And all everywhere. Once we get inside, plastered everywhere was date, big danger signs, you know, the yellow dangerous sign, the red X, if you have neck or back pain, you know, this guy. And I was like, you know, so talk about a threat, right? So my normal behavior, and like, my hands were sweating, my heart rate was up, my eyes were dilated. My normal response, I guess, would maybe show my inflexibility would have been to find the nearest exit and leave. Yeah, yeah, get out as fast as possible. Right. And so I think, Sarah, and luckily, I was with two very incredible women who are very well versed in pain science, and I think I am as well, but when it's you, you're you're like, a big, you know, mashed potato, you know. And Sandy and Sarah just looked at each other and looked at me, and I was like, almost shaking. And Sandy's like, Okay, listen, it only tilts about 12 degrees, and it stops and goes, you're in taxi cabs, they stop and go, you're fine. It's this much of a tilt, you'll be fine. And then Sarah's like, yeah, and the person in front of us like six, you know, there's nothing over your shoulders. It's not that dangerous. And they kept playing down the danger. And so I did end up getting on it very, very nervous. And then I got off and I was fine. They were right. Then it allowed me to be flexible enough to then go on another ride after that. Whereas if I went with my original strategy, which would have been to leave, then I wouldn't have done anything else for the rest of the day. Yeah, so that threat, if left to my own devices would have gotten the, I don't want to say gotten the better of me, but I would have reverted back to the behaviors I had during the that sort of 10 years of living with pain.   44:24 Yeah. And, you know, I respect I respect both of those approaches where it makes sense for an organism when you see credible evidence that this is a dangerous situation to take a variety of action. Yeah, makes total sense. And I guess the, I think about the flexibility thing was evident, as Sandy and Sarah are problem solving with you gathering more data. And, and then your choice changed. That's the stuff that seems consistent with in quotation marks flexibility, you know that right? In the face of new data. So the new data, it could work both both ways. And I think there are some people with persisting pain problems where they behave the same way, even in the presence of significant danger cues. And that works against them because they the danger, for example, right, right. Yeah, can work both ways. Yeah, I think I think there's a rich there's there's a rich stream of, of understanding in there somewhere for us to, to uncover. But it does feel a little bit like that's going to require the the archaeologist among us to get out. This is a metaphor, obviously, to get out our brushes and blowers and slowly reveal what that stream of gold is, as distinct from the earth blasters obviously just want to revolutionize in a in a rapid way. And I fit more into the second category. You know, I lose steam on the very slow, the finite, made tool discovery thing. I'm very pleased to be around researchers who are excellent at that. Yeah, it's not so much.   46:25 And I always always think about that. What did I think David Butler said they were what did he call them? Oh, I don't know why I'm blanking. I have the book right here. Super. Ah, I'll think of it. It'll come up. It'll come up later. It's from explain pain supercharged, you know, the graph and everything leads. So if you have more, yeah. Dangerous safety Sims. He called them Super Dungeon Sims. Yeah. Jensen says, so he was like, Oh, I think Sara and Sandy were your super Sims at that moment, which is maybe what you needed? Maybe? I don't know. But like you said, it would have been just as valid as if I was like, I can't do this. It's too stressful. You know? Yeah, it's too dangerous. Too dangerous. Yeah. Because those   47:14 were the cues that you were, you're getting? Yeah, yeah. And just take it off. I always say it's important in a situation like this to take a moment to reflect on the contrast between the resources available to you in that moment. Right. Which, okay, Sandy and Sarah? Unique, exceptional, exceptional resources. Like, yeah, scrub exceptional. Yeah. But even without them, take your own resources. You know, you're informed, you're, you're resourced with intellectual and other capacities and understand how things work and biomechanics, you've got incredible resources, and then just take a moment to reflect on the contrast when you and most people? Yeah. And is it? Is it any? Is it any wonder at all that people face those situations? And yeah, there'd be a lot of people with chronic neck pain, even if they're on a recovery journey, who would get into that situation and their neck pain would flare up, they wouldn't even do the rod, that's right, leave and they kind of flare up and, and the rest.   48:24 And everything that comes after that, go back   48:27 to the doctor, get a new script, you know, and we do we attempt to, or they I think there's a tendency in our field to, to look, look down on that approach in some way. But, you know, as they are, that's substantive people. But it's totally predictable. And an excellent, excellent biological organism doing that. And we have to overcome, we just always have to remember the resource differential.   48:58 Yeah. Oh, that's, I never even thought about that. But that is so true. And, you know, it just goes to show you why people living with chronic pain, why the burden of disease is the high one of the highest in burden. It's the most one of the most burdensome health conditions and diseases in the world. In most countries. I mean, just low back pain alone, the burden of disease in the United States, I think is third, that's just low back pain. We're not talking about oh, a and other knee or neck pain, other chronic conditions. It's third Well, I mean, things might be different now with COVID. I don't know. But um,   49:38 you know, it's usually with disability. And they usually for disability metric for iPads way out in front. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, on other metrics to use last year's lost, which includes mortality, then it drops down, right, just a bit.   49:56 Right, right. But you know, it just goes to show all of the things that you that you've been working on in 2021 and that you're excited about coming up, let's say in 2022 and all the incredible researchers and PhD candidates that you get to work with it just shows how complex and complicated chronic pain is. And that one or two sessions of pain science education in clinic cut it for most. No, absolutely. And it just shows the complexity of it and how difficult it is from a research standpoint, a clinician standpoint it is a tackle these problems on an individual basis and society as a whole. So I mean, keep keep doing that. Keep fighting the good fight, as they say.   50:40 That's scary. Because yeah, gobsmacked, nice weeks that I get to do this for a job and I get paid for it.   50:52 Yeah, speaking. And speaking of helping people around the world, you've got master sessions coming up. So you did this in 2021. So now you're doing it again in 2022. It's going to be May 13. To the 16th. Depends on where you live in the in the world. But you want to talk a little bit more about the master sessions, who's involved and what it's all about.   51:13 Well, yeah, that I mean, that was that was really cool. We sewing in 2021. No one's traveling, obviously. And noi group UK put, to me this idea of doing something a bit different. And it was really different like I was so that it it, we had two broadcasts, and they were timed friend friendly time zones for Europe or for the Americas. And then Australia and Asia sort of could go to one or the other with not quite as friendly. So for one broadcast, I was starting, I think at 6am. For another broadcast, I was finishing at about 11pm, something like that my time, but it was really well planned really well resource like they are, I'm in a studio basically, I was in that it was in the NOI group offices in Adelaide, but set up like a studio with a producer and sound people and a couple of cameras and Tim Cox working as emcee does a beautiful job on that. And we had a team of people downstairs ferreting around for the papers I was mentioning and all that sort of stuff. And it we were we didn't know how it would go because it was it's not like it's not like a zoom conference. Or, or cause it's really quite different from that there's a fair bit of interaction and it went, it went really well was really good fun, really well received. And the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. I, I was joined by two people for 2021. social pressure Tasha Stanton came to speak. And she so she did a about a 30 minute talk. And then she and I chatted for about 45 minutes and and then we open it up to q&a and and that conversation between Tasha and I and then the other person who contributed that our two people were Mark Hutchinson, who's professor of everything. Adelaide University, one of the one of the exceptional communicators on neuro immunology, related to pain and defense, personal defense. And so same sort of format with him. And then with David Butler, who everyone knows, if you don't know, David, you, you're missing a key part of life you should have. So it was amazing. It was yeah, it was a really well, it's lots of comments like, I never thought online education could be like this and that sort of stuff. So that was really positive. So in 2022 in, and I think the dates you mentioned are probably the Americas day, so that we're doing to broadcast again, where we got feedback that we're responding to, so the schedule is changing slightly. Mark Hutchinson and Tasha are both coming back to do longer stints. And then we're also having in people with really interesting research and great clinical engagement. So for example, Dr. Jane charmers who's done some excellent work in pelvic pain. So she'll come and she'll do a talk and then we'll, I sort of interview them. So it's the massive sessions are a massive amount of work for me because I need to have my head around everyone else's stuff as well. So I can ask meaningful questions, but the, the feedback is is about how useful those conversations are as well. So yeah, so this Jen channels there's Haley leak, Haley leak has has started working with investigate what people who are recovering from paying value in learning about to publish one paper on that in pain, a beautiful paper, I think that I think should shift research direction of a few groups. Haley also has the probably unique among pain scientists brag point of winning the Australian survivor 2021. So she, she survived. And part of the reason for her survival, I think was her deep understanding of how pain works. And there was some great episodes where she there was one where she I think she was standing on like Pogi point things, Poles, they were all doing this with a with another thing coming slider down lower and lower for six hours.   56:08 And lead athletes x s as people have already fallen out and and so she's she's actually done an incredible job in disseminating modern understanding of pain to the wider community because they've all said, How did you do that. And she's able to talk about her understanding of pain. And pain does not mean damage pain is because it was a thing. So no wonder the host is making these comments like that they're trying to rev up my payment system. So incredible impact and she's got a high profile among the people who watch on Survivor on telly. So she's able to integrate that experience with her research. And she's very interesting person. So she's she's coming Sarah wall works doing really interesting work with younger kids. Looking at how how we can engage with young kids on everyday paints in a way that will help them be resilient later. So really fascinating work that she's doing. And then I'm on there as well. So I think I'll cover about half of the time. And it's great fun. Yeah. And you know, people go look at the reviews and all that sort of stuff. But yeah. Love people to to get involved in that. That's in that's in May. Yeah.   57:30 And is there? You may not know this, but is there like a cutoff date for signups? Or can you sign up like the day before? If you wanted to?   57:39 I think there's a right shift. Okay. I think there's an early bird, right. I think I actually don't know much about that sort of stuff. But they they do have to. I mean, the earlier they get a feel for numbers that they they're able to judge sure how to do it, because it takes a lot of bandwidth and all that sort of stuff.   57:59 Right? Yeah. All that behind all the behind the scenes production stuff. You're the On Air talent, you don't have to worry   58:05 Exactly. Worry about any of that. But But noi group, if they get annoyed by it, they'll learn everything   58:12 about it. Yeah, yeah. And again, I'll put the links in the show notes here. And we'll put it out on social media as well. So that if people are interested, then I highly suggest signing up because it what a great, what a great lineup. And it's not until May. So you have plenty of time to shift your schedule and try and figure out, you know, kind of block the time off so you can be part of it. And one other thing, I believe this is true, you can correct me if I'm wrong. But if you if you're in the Americas, and you you paid for it, you live in New York City, let's say I pay for I live in New York City, I can also watch the other, also get the recordings of the other broadcast.   58:55 That's correct. So you get both and you you don't have to be there live watching it in bed. But if you're not you, you're not engaging in the q&a and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, but you get access to both broadcast and you get access to the thing called the Padlet, which is it was an amazing resource from the first time because this is all of the stuff that the team downstairs is getting while the master sessions around. So let's say Professor Mark Hudson mentions this are really exciting new study from so and so which show this then someone downstairs will get that study put the paper on the Padlet. So it's some incredible resource as well. And they have access to that. I don't know for how long afterwards   59:40 Yeah, yeah, but you but you have it Well, it sounds amazing. And I think it's so great that this is probably something if not for COVID Maybe you would not have done and it's made a big impact, right so   59:54 and and when COVID no longer what it is I'd prefer to do it this way.   1:00:02 Yeah, yeah, amazing. Amazing. And now, I don't want to monopolize any more of your time. But is there anything that we didn't cover that you were like, Oh, I really want the listeners to know this or, or is there a big takeaway?   1:00:18 Ah, I think the takeaway is, it's really consistent over years, actually. Whenever I have an opportunity like this to chat, with such an informed and, and clever interviewer, like you, I'm always struck by how, how important people like you are for our community, because I see my role sort of knowledge generation and, and dissemination in sort of conventional ways, you know, books and articles and things like that. But we need people like you, to spread it, to play the critical role and getting it out to the, to the world in a way that's accurate and engaging and, and it's people like you who put in so much so much effort for your community. And whenever I think about takeaway, I just am reminded of of the potential benefit we can still bring to humanity by doing this chronic pain thing better. And we have made progress, know that we made progress. But it feels to me like were climbing up a really, really tall mountain. And now when we look back, we can see we've actually come quite a long way. But when you look ahead, there's still still a bloody big mountain. So all of these things would have hope. I think there's genuine, realistic, scientifically based reason to hope things will keep improving for people with chronic pain, that will people will have better outcomes. So that's my take home. But can I give a plug to a book that I'm an author on? Yeah, it's a self plug. But I'm not the main author. So Dan Harvey, a truly innovative scientist. And I don't say that lightly. There's not many innovators out there. But Dan Harvey is an innovator. And he's the first author on a book called pain and perception. And the Americans can get that through IPTp. Elsewhere, you can get through no group. And it's a I think it's a beautiful book. It's all about understanding through illusions, and sensorial experiences, more about how pain works, sort of like a coffee table, book waiting area book. The feedback has been fantastic. So yeah, I'm really excited to be involved with that with Dan. And I'll just mention another book that's available in in North America, but not in Australia. And it's called Epiphany. And test Stanton has joined Dave Butler and I to, to write a consumer focused book around the osteoarthritis.   1:03:17 And I will say, I, when I first saw this epiphany, it's not how you would normally spell epiphany. It's, it's, it's an what do they call it? It's an acronym an acronym? Yes. So it's explaining pain to increase physical activity in knee osteoarthritis.   1:03:39 Correct. It's spelled AP IPH a knee,   1:03:45 right? Yeah, very clever. Cuz I was like, epiphany. What did I say? Episode? I don't even know. What's epiphanies? And you're like epiphany. I'm like, oh, yeah, that definitely makes more sense. That definitely makes more sense. But yes. And we'll have we'll have links to all of this stuff, again, in the show notes. And, you know, one last question and talking about, you know, all of the work that you do that isn't in very important work, and it can impact not one or two people but millions of people living with chronic pain. So do you as a researcher, how do you deal with maybe feelings of overwhelm with the responsibility that that place is on your shoulders? Or do you think about that at all? Or am I just projecting what I would feel if I were in your position?   1:04:36 I think you're projecting. I don't, I don't feel overwhelmed in the slightest. I don't feel any sense of responsibility to humanity. That's, that's changed because of what I do. I feel I feel that I have a responsibility. I don't know if I feel I have responsibility. I want to use my resources and my knowledge and my skills, and my connections and my relationships to, to be the best Lorimar I can be if that makes any sense and, and the values by which I judge that are not at all on chronic pain outcomes. I'm a very sort of process driven person, I want to make sure that today I did the best thing I could do. And I don't have any illusion that I, I could use outcomes as a marker of, of how well I've lived my life. Because I just think there's too much noise for, for me to have a measurable signal in the world. So I want to make sure that in this moment, I'm being authentic and true and real. And today, I'm doing my very best, I do my very best. But I do that, because I like myself more when I'm doing my very best. But I feel any burden to humanity. That's different from the burden that I think anyone who grew up in my in my world and life with my skill set, and my influences would have.   1:06:24 Yeah. And I think that's great, universal advice for for anyone. And, you know, normally when we finish the show, I always ask people, What advice would you give to your younger self? So I don't know if any piece of what you said would be maybe part of that advice. But is there anything else that maybe you would give to a young a young Larmour? fresh out of university for first time University, not? Subsequent?   1:06:48 Yeah. I think that I would, I think there would be advice, I don't think it would be remotely relevant to my work, I think it would be love a beloved, look for that, and express and, and value that with the entire depth and breadth of your being. And for me, that includes being a neuroscientist and paying dude with a extraordinary fortune of being able to do the things I enjoy doing for work and resonate with my values and all that sort of stuff. And ultimately, I think we're such a sophisticated organism that, that we may want to one one day discover that it's all just to love and be loved. And I don't know, great advice.   1:07:43 Great advice. Thank you. I'm sorry, not a sage. But no, no, it's amazing advice. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for taking the time out to come on and talk about all the stuff you have going on. And is there a place where people can find you? If I don't know they have questions, websites, something like that.   1:08:07 Yeah, so finding and I've got a homepage at the University of South Australia they can find out about personal pain revolution is doing some good stuff on Annabelle, what we're doing that I I get a lot of emails and I just can't possibly respond to them.   1:08:26 We're not here to give out your your emails, or your personal phone number or anything but I think pain revolution, Oregon and the University of South Australia are great ways for people to find out a little bit more about you because as we said, before we get on the air you are not on social media. So there is no Twitter handles or Instagram or tic TOCs none of that stuff. None of that. So people can find you again, pain revolution.org or University of South Australia's website or you can just do a Google go to ResearchGate read all your papers. There's plenty of ways to find out more about your research and and what you have coming up. So plenty of ways to do that. So again, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it.   1:09:12 Oh, thanks so much for having me. You're a legend. Keep it up.   1:09:17 Thank you. Thank you so much and everyone. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy and smart.

Stacey Stevenson is an experienced business leader who has worked in Defense, Technology, and Finance senior roles. She was recently Senior Managing Director at Charles Schwab and Co. in Westlake, Texas, where she oversaw major initiatives, including Voice Technology, Digital, and Talent. While at Charles Schwab, she tirelessly advocated for creating a safe and inclusive space for all in the workplace in her roles as local and National co-chair for Schwab's Pride ERG and through the partnerships she established with multiple LGBTQ non-profits. Stacey has been active in the fight for equality in Dallas through leading community projects and non-profit board service. She and her wife Cheralyn have been married 15 years and reside in Dallas with their 7-year old twin boys Duke and London. Timestamp 1:46 Who is Stacey Stevenson 5:27 Challenges that Stacey faced being as a minority group in corporate environments 13:12 Stacey shares her story of the importance of family quality 19:26 Shifting from corporate to nonprofit 23:26 Stacey's tip in getting into her role 28:46 Stacey's talks about being in parenthood 31:28 Stacey's life's vision 36:09 Tips on pivoting in life and getting through challenges Social Media Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/staceystevenson/ Family Equality https://www.familyequality.org/ Follow Patti Dobrowolski - Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/upyourcreativegenius/ Follow Patti Dobrowolski - Linkedinhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/patti-dobrowolski-532368/ Up Your Creative Geniushttps://www.upyourcreativegenius.com/ Patti Dobrowolski 00:03 Hello superstars, welcome to the Up Your Creative Genius podcast where you will gain insight and tips to stomp on the accelerator and blast off to transform your business and your life. I'm your host, Patti Dobrowolski. And if this is your first time tuning in, then strap in because this is serious rocket fuel. Each week, I interview fellow creative geniuses to help you learn how easy it is to up your creative genius in any part of your life. Hey, everybody, oh my gosh, I have Stacey Stevenson here. And let me just say that, by chance through my wife, Julie, I got to meet her. And then I went to our house for a fundraiser. And she is the consummate Rockstar, I'm just saying that she is from Texas, that she's been and done so many things in technology and everywhere that it's just amazing. So right now she's the CEO of Family and Quality, which is advancing equality for LGBTQ families, which Yes, thank you very much for that. And before that, she worked for Charles Schwab. And she did all kinds of things as the senior managing director there, she did voice tech and digital and talent. But mostly on top of that, she ran a pride ERG, and she'll tell us what that means. But she wanted to create a safe and inclusive environment for everybody. And so I love that you have done this. And I'm so happy to have you here so we can talk about all of that. Let's get going. Welcome to the show. Stacey Stevenson 01:44 Thank you, Patti. Thanks for having me. Patti Dobrowolski 01:46 Oh, man, that's so great. So I just want you to tell us a little bit about you tell us your story. And just tell us how did you get to do what you're doing now? And what's your past? Like? You're from Texas. So tell me about what it's like to be in Texas, cuz I haven't been here that long. And so to meet you was like, Oh, yes. Finally, my people, right. So tell me, what's your story? How did you get to do what you're doing now? Stacey Stevenson 02:12 Sure. So yes, I am a native Texan. And I'm from South Texas. So about six hours from Dallas, a small town called Robstown Texas. Yeah. And I, that's where I grew up. And, you know, at some point, I'll kind of fast forward a little bit about 20 or 21 years old, I decided that I was going to leave the small town. And you know, that really had a lot of things to do with being a queer person in a small town, Texas, it had a lot to do with having to drop out of high school after being pulled out of the closet. Patti Dobrowolski 02:46 Oh wow, somebody outed you? Stacey Stevenson 02:48 Yeah, someone outed me, you know, so it'd be a teenager who's discovering themselves and finding your first girlfriend, then that whole first love thing that happens that we all feel in high school, and to be drugged out of the closet when you're trying to figure out your own identity and love and what that all means, you know, it was pretty traumatic. And so being pulled out of the closet that led to dropping out of high school dropping out of high school, obviously lead to dead end jobs, lots of evictions, couchsurfing, all those sorts of things. I had to make a decision. Patti Dobrowolski 03:23 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 03:23 What did I want to do? And was I going to continue to live this life. And I'll say that I always had big dreams when I was a little girl. Patti Dobrowolski 03:31 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 03:31 And for some reason, I got away from those. But at about 20, 21, I was on my friend's couch, sleeping on his couch. And I said, You know what, I need to do something different. This is not the life that I planned for myself. So I scraped up $70 and jumped in the car and drove to Dallas, Texas, and that's, you know, 20 something years ago. And you know, really what that part of my life was all about was creating the life that I wanted to live. And so how do I do that as someone who is a GED graduate, and with maybe one or two college credits under my belt, right? And when I got to Dallas, I just decided to go in on everything and say, You know what, I want to learn technology. Is it possible to get a job in technology? Yes. And you know what I did? How do you kind of aging myself, I picked up a Windows 95 manual. Went back and read it, and then went to a job interview to be a technical support analyst. And I got the job. And that's where my technology, job path started with being a Technical Support Analyst. And from there, I decided that I loved leadership, and I saw how bad leadership really impacted employees and how great leadership really motivated employees. And I had a lot of examples of bad leaders. And so I started to also get into leadership. And from there, I had my first management position at a huge defence company, Northrop Grumman, and for Northrop Grumman, I went to Sabre, which is another 10 Yes, me here in the Dallas area, and From Sabre, I went to Charles Schwab. And that was, you know, kind of fast forwarding that was like a 20 something year corporate career, from technology to keep supply chain, organisational development, I think I've done it all. But in all of those positions, what was really constant was leadership. And the other thing I'll say, is that going back to school, right, and getting my bachelor's degree, getting my MBA, that was all part of the plan, and what led lag and all those jobs. Patti Dobrowolski 05:27 Oh, my gosh, I love that. And I think one of the things that I love particularly about that is that you came to this pivot point, right? Where you were on that couch, and you said to the person whose house you're in, I got to go do this $70 or not, you know, I'm going to go do it. And that piece takes so much courage. And I think, part of what I know from meeting you, right, and going to your house and meeting your sons and your wife, and just being in that environment, with all the people that were supporting family equality, right, was that I felt like, there was a through line in the stories that you told and that other people told about courage about standing up for yourself and making a way where there wasn't a way before. And I think, you know, I always ask people would you do with the challenges that you came up against? But what challenges did you face in all those corporate environments? Because, number one, you're coming in without their other people have an education, you haven't got one, you're coming in from that swinging. And then the colour of your skin? You got that going? Yes, you know, and you're gay. So let's just add all of that in there. And woman. So tell me a little bit about what was challenging and then environment? 06:43 Yeah, so you hit the nail on the head with the education piece. I think that was my own personal challenge in where I was in these spaces. I was getting interviewed for these positions, I obviously made it to the table to get interviewed and got the resumes and all those sorts of things. But this innate feeling of unworthiness was prevalent, because, well, you don't have an education, you know, all the other candidates have degrees, and they're not an adult trying to get their bachelor's degree, they've done this in college, etc. So having to deal with the education piece was really more of a personal issue for me, because I was sort of projecting and unworthiness in my presence when I was presenting myself and kind of going to people going, you know, I know, I don't have a bachelor's degree as the lead in state. Patti Dobrowolski 07:29 As the lead in. Yeah, yeah. Stacey Stevenson 07:31 They're not even asking me about it. Yeah. So that was my own personal challenge. And, and I think I showed up in different ways. When I was still dealing with that challenge, when I could have just been my best self and just been in there kicking butt, I have this sort of cloak of unworthiness that I have to deal with. So that was one of the challenges that that was really prevalent, especially early in my corporate career, you know, the fact of being a black woman, that was absolutely a challenge. And, you know, I always tell people, I've dealt with bias and discrimination, but I never know if it's because I'm black. Because I'm a woman, or because I'm queer. I don't know which one it is. So you're trying to balance those things. But I do know, you know, I was told by a manager that he couldn't put me in front of clients, because he didn't know if I was going to come out to those clients. And he felt that if I came out to those clients that it was going to harm his business. So I did deal with things like that. And so what does that cause? Now I'm closeted. Patti Dobrowolski 08:28 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 08:28 Now, I'm not being my authentic self. Now, I'm pretending to have a husband. Yes, exactly. We're in order to survive. And I think the other thing when you're the only LGBTQ plus person in the room, which happens a lot, I think, then we also just sort of just, by default, we start to kind of show up and close in, we're not being ourselves, and we're not telling the stories of our weekends with our partners, etc. So I dealt with that quite a bit. And, you know, one of the ways I think that I decided to really combat that is to start leading in employee resource groups. And when I was at Northrop Grumman, that was my first foray into being a part of a pride employee resource group. So we are supporting the employees that are LGBTQ and that they have resources, and they have a safe space to come meet every now and then every now and then to talk about their experiences at work, and how do we create the best experience for the network in that safe space for the network to exist and do their work? Patti Dobrowolski 09:25 Yeah, I think that an ERG or that employee resource group is so valuable there. And also, it's the place where you can be yourself. Because I think, you know, you can imagine I'm older than you are. So way back when when I came out, I mean, every single time I went into business, who I was working for, they would always say, you know, you can't come out there, you know, it's not gonna be an opportunity for you and I would just find a way to do it anyway, I would just do it. I didn't care what they said. And you know, Because I realised that if I could be myself in front of those people, they could be themselves. And so in some groups, I felt confident enough, or I had a deep enough bond where I would share that, right. But often it would just be with two or three people in the room that I was facilitating, I would share with them, it wasn't a thing where now you can just be yourself. And even now, in some circles, it's still shocking when I say my wife, and I, you know, and I make a point of it. I don't know about you, but I make a point. Because I want people to remember, hey, you know, the, yeah, I have a partner and she's doing great. So yeah, but I think that, that it's hard to bring your authentic self, when you feel like that there's so much judgement in the world based on not having an experience with someone like you. Stacey Stevenson 10:53 Yeah, I agree. You know what the other thing is, and I appreciate that cuz I wish that we had when you said you were still you would still do it anyway, even though you were told not to. And I wish that I had models like that like you in my career who are doing it. But I think the other thing is also cultural. So as an African American person, whose family is from the South who grew up Baptist. Patti Dobrowolski 11:15 Oh, yeah. Stacey Stevenson 11:15 And think about the whole coming out, you know, story, not just what happened at school in the way that the kids responded? How did my family respond? Yeah, my coming out, oh, how many times did the issue of church and God and being a sinner come up? And the messages that I was told as a little girl about homosexuality, live with me, and I think probably maybe even back then even the safest places? I think I still would have been hesitant because of those messages that stick with you that you're hearing at home, right before you can leave the nest. Patti Dobrowolski 11:50 Yes. And I think people now they realise how powerful your words are, or we hope that they do. But of course, you know, my parents. When I came out, I was 17. And they were like, my dad went around the side of the house and cried, you know, my mom's and my siblings said, you know, we love you no matter what. But what was true is my parents never told anyone that I was gay, until they were in their 70s. And towards the end of their life, they said it to one of their friends. And their friends said my son is gay. And they were like, oh, you know, finally. And you know, so you think about that. So they could say one thing, but they wouldn't tell anybody so that at my mother's funeral, right. And afterwards, the celebration, I was introducing my wife to them, because they had no idea that I was gay. No, not at all. And so, you know, they just knew what I done and accomplished and all those things. You know how it is. Stacey Stevenson 12:56 Oh, yeah, think about what kind of support system that could have been for your parents. Only had they said something. Right. Right. And kind of built that network. But again, trying generational differences. Patti Dobrowolski 13:06 That's right. Stacey Stevenson 13:07 Here is and I mean, I think it's awesome. That in their own way, I guess they supported you. Patti Dobrowolski 13:12 Yeah, they did. They did. I mean, you know, I found that card, I always tell this story to my wife, Julie, right. You know, you and your wife, and Julie and I've been married the same amount of time, right. But my mom for years, because I was a serial monogamist she had a card with everybody's name on it, and then there'll be a line through it, and then the next girlfriend's name with their phone number, and then a line through it. And then the next one, I found that in like a bar, after she had passed, I was like, Oh, my God, but she, you know, she always gave them everything Christmas presents, and was completely embracing. However, that was like a reflection of me. I was like, Oh, my God. And I'm glad I changed that habit. Right, exactly. Well, that's fascinating. So now talk a little bit about the role that you're in now, because I met your beautiful boys. And I think that what you're doing with family quality is amazing. So tell the listeners a little bit about that. Stacey Stevenson 14:08 Yeah. So I am, you know, on a backup a little bit, I left corporate America. Patti Dobrowolski 14:14 Yes. And so during the pandemic, but during the pandemic, right, and then why did you leave during the pandemic, right? Stacey Stevenson 14:21 So surprising if someone would have asked me a couple of what she's How long has this pandemic been around? Like, almost three years. So someone would have asked me in early 2020, or 2019, if I was going to leave Corporate America, I would have thought that they were Are you kidding? You're crazy. Patti Dobrowolski 14:36 Money is good. Leadership. Stacey Stevenson 14:39 Got my leadership. I got it right. And I like and again, go back to who I was, and who I thought I would not be. And now I'm here in Corporate America, like why would I ever take any of that away? And then during the pandemic, you know, I call it COVID Clarity. I think we all had COVID Clarity. Definitely He has so still having to pick still oh my god, yeah, we're still having it so much time to think. Patti Dobrowolski 15:06 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 15:06 And, you know, it gave me time to decide if I was really doing good in the world in the way that I wanted to. And if I was really putting forth all those challenges, I went through the coming out of the closet, what happened to my parents being rejected when we were trying to build our family? To all those things? How did I really want to use that in a way to help people? And you know, I made the decision that it was time to go do something different. And it was time to take a risk, it was time to bet on myself. And, you know, you could say, I bet on myself, you know, in the past, and I think I did, but it's like those bets, I think, have to keep getting bigger. Patti Dobrowolski 15:42 Well, this is a big bet. I mean, this was like, now you're stepping into your true self. Do you know what I'm saying? There, you're stepping into, you're the leader, you're the CEO. So that means you're overseeing all of it. But you're in your authentic stream, like there's not a moment that you're not living your full life. Stacey Stevenson 16:01 Exactly. And that was part of the COVID clarity to have. This isn't me, Charles Schwab is a great company. I think, you know, folks, they're great company, supportive of the LGBTQ+ community. And you know, all sorts of I think under representation or underrepresented people, when I was at 12, we really were trying to do our best to ensure that we were uplifting those people. Patti Dobrowolski 16:21 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 16:21 And then at the same time, was I living my authentic self. And I think to an extent, I thought that I was I'm leading an ERG, I'm out at work, I'm talking about my wife, and my kids, and people know who I am and what we do, and all those sorts of things. And then at the same time, there's still this authenticity, I think, as an LGBTQ+ person that for again, this cloak of even the maybe closetness that we still carry this I carry and didn't know I was carrying it. Fast forward to, I decided to apply for panel quality. And my wife thinks I'm crazy. She says, You love corporate America, this is your thing. This is what you do. She went back to that when I met you. You told me that this is what you do. And this is what you will do. And I was kind of you know, on this career trajectory. Patti Dobrowolski 17:04 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 17:05 And so she thought it was crazy. Maybe I thought I was a little bit crazy. But maybe that's great. If we sometimes get I think, a little bit crazier out of our comfort zone. But I decided to apply for this job. And yeah, you know, the at a CEO level, like he said, and the committee that was responsible for hiring, they had their doubts, because I didn't have extensive nonprofit experience that sat on boards. But what is this person going to offer? Patti Dobrowolski 17:27 Right. Stacey Stevenson 17:27 That the traditional nonprofit, you know, candidate could actually give us and I had to demonstrate that those years and years of business and leadership that I had had under my belt at Schwab and Sabre and Northrop Grumman, were beneficial to the nonprofit world. Patti Dobrowolski 17:44 Definitely. Stacey Stevenson 17:46 You know, but you have to demonstrate that and not only that, I have a lived experience, my wife and I live in Texas, we're a black lesbian couple in Texas, raising twin black boys. And by the way, we had a very rocky journey with you holding our family, including an adoption agency in Texas telling us that they wouldn't work with us that women were not going to pick us anyway. But by the way, we're not going to work with you, because you are a same sex couple, you know, having fertility doctors give us the runaround, you know, so that experience of being rejected when you're trying to build a family when you're you make that decision to have a child, which is just a huge decision. Patti Dobrowolski 18:28 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 18:28 And then you go forth, because that takes courage to write to say, yeah, like, I'm going to raise other humans, that's just a whole other level of courage as well. And then you go do that and take that big step. And then they tell you that you're not good enough, and that you can't do it, I felt I could take that live, that hurt. That pain, the experience of being in Corporate America, and take all that and make an effect and an impact and family quality. And thankfully, after very long, you know, almost six months interview process. Patti Dobrowolski 18:57 Really, the grill is really, really one side than the other. Stacey Stevenson 19:03 They selected me and I'm thankful and I'm so happy to be at family quality. I feel like I am where I am supposed to be. And it's almost like what took me so long to get here. Yeah. It took me so long to figure that out. But I think in life, it does take us some time to figure out where we truly belong. We're living someone else's life. We don't even know it. We're sometimes living someone else's life, or someone's out someone else's version of life. And we don't know. Patti Dobrowolski 19:26 Yeah, yeah, I would agree. I think that, you know, we get impacted by everything around us. And when we form a belief about who we should be and how we should act, and then we live that as if it's reality. And just like our personality, we think our personality is real. Instead of that, it's just one suit we put on and it can change over time. And that, you know, really when you work in the corporate sector, I mean, you just wear a certain suit really all the time, and you button yourself down in ways that are hard to explain, but you can feel it inside. And it reminds me when I was a kid, my mom would dress me up in these little frilly outfits and I would scream, you know, age 3 when I came in the house put on my real clothes, I need my real clothes. Yes. And that is always how I felt in corporate America, you know, and now I'm like, whatever, you know, I'm gonna wear I wear and be who I am. And these things will help to create the change. So you went from a corporate position to running a nonprofit. So what did you have to learn? And how do you have to grow in yourself in order to do that? Because those are two different cultures. I know from working at the Gates Foundation, there were three cultures. One was people from Microsoft, one was nonprofits and one more entrepreneurs that had come in. So what in your case? Would you have to manage or learn and do? Stacey Stevenson 20:50 Yeah, well, I had to learn that one, it is very different. So in terms of resources, and finances, you know, you think about the companies that I've worked for that if you had unlimited resources, but you had a pretty big budget. Patti Dobrowolski 21:04 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 21:05 What you needed to do. And all you needed to do is go through the the hierarchy, or sometimes bureaucracy to get an approval to get it. But the money was there, you got a nonprofit to be running a nonprofit, and to be so cognizant about the dollars, and these are donor dollars, and how are we using those in impactful way, but needing to run an organisation as efficiently and effective as possible, but not having the unlimited or, you know, the, you know, a big budget to do. So I had to learn very quickly, how do I stay nimble? How do I work within the confines of our budget, and also make something create something new. And that was a learning curve for me. And I think I'm getting around it of figuring out, I can work this within the budget, but we're going to have to be super creative. And I think what it's done is it's forced me to be even more creative than I would have sometimes when you have access to, you know, just a plethora of options, and you're not really as creative as you maybe we would be. And I had to get super creative. I think the other thing I had to learn is how to interact with the board members, because I've been a board member. Now I'm a co responsible to the board. Patti Dobrowolski 22:14 Exactly. Stacey Stevenson 22:15 Managing all those different board personalities. Patti Dobrowolski 22:17 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 22:18 Managing, you know, who is kind of like sceptical of maybe by being here, who's maybe a champion, how do I kind of bring everybody on board? And you know, I think the other challenge too, is just to be quite honest, was realising that I'm the first black leader in the history of family quality. And to be honest, after 42 years of this nonprofit being. Patti Dobrowolski 22:41 Wow. Stacey Stevenson 22:42 And you know, a while Patti, I was telling myself, I don't want to make that a thing. That's not a thing, you know. And I think that's a whole conditioning of African American people to have taught not to rock the boat a lot. Patti Dobrowolski 22:52 Yeah, yeah. Stacey Stevenson 22:52 When it comes to race. But it's not really about rocking boat. It's the fact Yeah, there are implications that come along with that, definitely, while I went in with eyes wide open, there are also things that I learned along the way, that being the first black leader and how people respond to you, and how you have to show up are still very different. And that's something that's a consistent theme, whether I'm in corporate or whether I'm in nonprofit, I'm still a black woman, and in the ways in which I have to show up are very different than some of my peers. So thinking about that, like. Patti Dobrowolski 23:26 Yeah, yeah, tell me tell me that, educate, educate the listeners a little bit about what that means. You have to show up somewhat differently. So how are you having to course correct or, you know, sort of position yourself? Stacey Stevenson 23:41 Mm hmm. Yeah. You know, I think it's really about you. We all want to show up. competent. Yeah. And I think for many of us, sometimes our resume and our background is enough to get people to buy into our vision, who we are, yeah, oftentimes for black woman in a clear black woman, we have to work harder at getting people to believe our merit, and that what we are bringing to the table is genuine and not we weren't put in this position, just because I got people asking me if I was a token, because I am the first black leader station. Patti Dobrowolski 24:18 Wow. Stacey Stevenson 24:19 So having to really fight that to go no, no, no, no, no, it's not tokenism. The board did its due diligence. And here's my long resume. And with all my accolades and things that I've done in my education, and I belong here, so it's really it's almost like this constant, reaffirming to others and sometimes ourselves that I belong in this. Patti Dobrowolski 24:39 Yes. Stacey Stevenson 24:39 Because I've done all this stuff. And my resume is just as great as any of my other peers who may not look like me or love like me. So it's a constant reaffirming and navigating and shimming that you have to do and thankfully, you know, I have a supporting board, but you know, I have, I'm responsible for to the board, to donors to the employees, all of that and there's implications that come along with that. But you have to continue. Patti Dobrowolski 25:02 Yeah, definitely. And I just think that sounds very tiresome to me. That's what to me, it feels, you know, I was talking to one of my guests was Lani Phillips, and we were talking about it. And she was like, it's exhausting. You know, it can be exhausting that piece of it. And I think I don't think people can appreciate that, if you have never lived that experience. Stacey Stevenson 25:26 Yeah. Patti Dobrowolski 25:26 How exhausting it really is, and how important it is to really note and check your bias that you bring to every conversation. I mean, that is, no matter who you are in the world, it's an everyday thing. It's not just one and done, read a book, take a workshop, whatever, you have to really go out in the world and have an experience. So that you know, I mean, it's incredible. And I just want to say, thank you so much for everything that you do in the world. And you you know, you really are a black leader in Dallas. That's what's true. Like you're recognised as that you've been, I, you know, I did all this back channel, looking at what you'd been up to listen to some other podcasts where you're like, Oh, my God, she's incredible. And you really are. But that's a very different, that's a very different thing to be working in Corporate America and then be running a nonprofit, yeah, you really are accountable to everyone. So that's like, that's a lot of shoulder, you know, you got to get those lifts, because that's what it is. And I think stakeholder engagement, what you're talking about there, you know, it's really, it's essential. And I was thinking, man, you really need a good therapist, you know, therapists. Stacey Stevenson 26:50 I have to rationally oftentimes I tell people, that my wife is probably tired of being my therapist. But you know, because that's what happens, right? We get up, yes. Or we come home, and we're glad to go. And we talk to our spouse, and we lay all this on them. Patti Dobrowolski 27:06 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 27:06 But I also will say, I just have to say something about therapy. You know, I'm someone who has what I would call a traumatic background. And then at the same time coming from the African American community where we don't really embrace a lot of times, health. I am so on board with people having therapists, and I fully support it, we need it, we need it. And that doesn't mean that you're anything wrong with you. Patti Dobrowolski 27:27 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 27:27 There's no crazy or anything. It's just you need an outlet. We all need that. Patti Dobrowolski 27:32 Yeah, that's right. You know, I was trained as a drama therapist. So I know all about the drama. And I think that it's essential for people to show up really in the way that they need to, and then to kind of sort through all the pieces of it. Because where we get in trouble is when we press ourselves down, to try to fit or hold back the feelings that we're having, instead of saying what's true, and then sorting it out with the other person. And I think that, that, when you are always having to be on guard, you don't get the opportunity to do that. You can't just call it as it is. And so part of I think the the challenge for all of us in this new era, you know, the pre COVID, you know, now we have an AC and so now we're in AC and so in that place, we have to be truly listening to each other, and then being authentic about what is true for us and know that, you know, you're not always going to say it right? And well, you're going to do the best you can. And that there's got to be a lot of grace for that a lot of grace Stacey Stevenson 28:45 Is AC after COVID? Patti Dobrowolski 28:46 After COVID. Yeah. Yeah, after COVID. Like I think pre COVID And after COVID. Because we're not after it, I don't think but you know, that's the moment when it started, right? And so now when you think about that, so you now have these two beautiful boys, are you having a good time with them? Stacey Stevenson 29:07 Speaking of authenticity, parenting is the most beautiful and challenging experience that a human can undertake. That's what I will say, and I am having fun with him. I'm also learning from them. And that is so hard because I am taught or retaught as parents that we are the authority figure. We know best we know it all. And then at the end of the day, I'm like, I don't know at all. Yeah. And how was it that I could actually learn something from the seven year old and let's be grudgingly I don't want to learn from them. But I am learning from them. And it's been a really it's been a stretching experience for me because I'm you know, I love my parents that you saw the story about my dad throwing the party that you attended, love my parents. And at the same time, I don't want to make some of the mistakes that my parents made. So I'm having lots of fun and then also try to be cognizant of not making the mistakes and I I'm going to make mistakes. I'm going to screw it. I already know that but, but fun fun is the thing that we're trying to implement here at the house. Because again, petty things can get so damn serious sometimes. Patti Dobrowolski 30:10 Oh, yeah, I think and people are, you know, I think there's all the boundary setting piece, right? So the boundaries, and then the freedom, and then you know, the chaos, and you've got twins so they can work you. Stacey Stevenson 30:25 With each other. They're like, they like to do the tag team thing, you know? Yeah. But you know what we're having fun. What I will say about that? Is that just what we try to instil in them, because they get a lot of this from school, why do you have two moms or ew you have two moms. You know, I told the story of the house party about a teacher who was treating London badly. And we found out later, it's because he had two moms. And what I can say is that, you always wonder, how's that going to affect your kids? And then you sometimes I think, for the level of guilt, because they're having to take the shoulder that burden. They're being advocates at seven years old, you know, you and I know what advocacy is, and how hard and emotional that is. And it's the same in our kids are doing it to you that they have embraced the whole having a trauma thing, a mom and a mommy, it's like no problem. Like, what do you mean, what are you asking for? You know, I love my family, you know, and I love that, you know, you just never know. And we're in a, we're in a difficult environment, Texas, it can be a difficult environment from an inclusivity perspective for our community, as I'm sure you know. Yeah. And I'm so glad that they see the beauty in their family. Patti Dobrowolski 31:28 Yes, and and they every way talk about it, you know, I think that for them, it's like, yeah, no big deal. And I would think, you know, to me, you know, I was thinking about the things that make me mad. And this the thing is, the things that make me mad are the fact that this era that we're living in, didn't happen when I was coming out, you know, like those things I'm like, Yeah, but still in some pockets of the world, it's still the same, you know, things haven't changed. We live in Texas, you know, and I always read on Twitter, you know, they have things that happen in Texas there. And if you want a good laugh, and a good cry, just real people, right. But now, when you think about so I love that you started this whole conversation with talking about this wasn't the vision that you had of your life? So I'm curious, what do you envision for yourself, like, best case scenario, you know, three years from now, you know, what do you see yourself doing or being? What's that look like? Or when you're thinking about your trajectory? Stacey Stevenson 32:31 Sure. Learning to be of service to others. Yeah. And figuring out how do I do that in a really authentic way? Patti Dobrowolski 32:41 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 32:41 But at the same time, living the dreams that I have for myself, too. And I think that we get to live more of the dreams that we have. And we burn that service to others as part of the picture, not just service to ourselves. And if I get very specific, I want a best selling book. I want a New York Times bestseller book. Patti Dobrowolski 32:59 Alright. Stacey Stevenson 32:59 You know, I spent you did some of the research. And I've written a story for my time when I was a self harmer from age 15. Yes, it went viral, I guess somewhat, right. Patti Dobrowolski 33:09 Yes. Stacey Stevenson 33:10 But I would love to create a book on that. Patti Dobrowolski 33:12 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 33:13 Because people don't know that in the black community that we are cutting. So I would love to three years down the line is to have a book is to continue to be in the nonprofit space and to grow family quality, for to the budget that we have to have even larger budget in the larger budget we have is not just for budget sake, it means that we can serve more families, I want to be a part of that change. And then just working with folks like you to make change in Texas. What do we love to see in three years time, Texas be more like where you and your wife came from? in California? Patti Dobrowolski 33:44 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 33:44 In terms of laws and inclusivity. And just, you know, kind of progressive thought I would love to be a part of that change. And on a beach somewhere more authentic. Patti Dobrowolski 33:54 Yeah. That's so true. I just wanna I just want to clarify, though, my wife is from the Midwest. Stacey Stevenson 34:00 So she, she came? Patti Dobrowolski 34:02 Yes, she came from Iowa. And I came from California, and we met in Colorado. So we lived in multiple states, but she's not from California. I'm sure she wishes she was living in California, somewhere where the sun shines all the time, even better. But you know, I think that it is the opportunity. I think, wherever you have the most challenges, you're placed there, because you have this great opportunity to serve. And if you can figure out how do I serve within this environment in such a way that I can help transform the lives of this person and that person. It's not always big change, you know, big change is 3.5% of an area if you can get 3.5% to come together in a non violent way. That's how change occurs on a massive scale. And so we have to just assume that we're part of of Texas is 3.5%. And that somewhere in here, we're going to find the rest of that 3.5%. And we're going to do what needs to be done here, which is just shift to what people know, in their heart is the right thing, which is love. Stacey Stevenson 35:18 It's all about love. And some people I think, sometimes want to give up on Texas like, oh, there's no way we can make change there. I don't believe that. And I'm the kind of person who believes that there's always a way. Patti Dobrowolski 35:27 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 35:28 You know, to do something to make change. It's in so I'm, we'll work together. Patti Dobrowolski 35:32 We'll do it. We will. Yeah, we will. Because we're neighbours down the street. I know. I know it. I'm coming to your neighbourhood to get some bagels and just a few minutes. So you know. Stacey Stevenson 35:43 Yes. You have to try that bagel shop. Patti Dobrowolski 35:45 Oh, yeah. Well, you can meet me there after we're done. I'll be over there. Oh, you'll be going to work though. I'm sure. Stacey Stevenson 35:50 I'll be do I've been back to back meetings. Patti Dobrowolski 35:53 Oh, yeah. I should be dropping them off at your house. And since I'm not I'm saying, Oh, do Stacey Stevenson 35:59 They have great like, do they have everything they go on? Patti Dobrowolski 36:02 Yeah, they have? Oh, it's unbelievable. Yeah. Oh, it's just everything that you ever loved. Stacey Stevenson 36:09 There? Patti Dobrowolski 36:09 Is there? Yeah. Oh, Dan's bagels. Fantastic. Now, so tell people when you think about, you know, all of the ways in which you have been able to pivot from the time you were on that couch to working in those multiple organisations? What piece of advice would you give to people that are listening? who maybe need to make a pivot in some area? Who had that hard conversation with themselves during COVID? What would you say? What would be some tips? Stacey Stevenson 36:36 Yeah. So one of the things I said earlier is betting on yourself. And I think that it's easier said than done. But all of us have these great dreams and these hopes, and sometimes that's all they end up being is just dreams and hopes. I think that you have to bet on yourself, no matter what the naysayers are saying. And when I was on that couch, I had people tell me, why would you ever go to Dallas? You number one, you don't have enough money? Number two, you're not going to make it number three, you don't have an education. Patti Dobrowolski 37:08 That's right. Stacey Stevenson 37:08 And, and whether I'm on the couch, or whether I'm at Charles Schwab having this really deep moment of contemplation going, should I leave? And I had voices telling me to why would you do that? But what would you do so? Or why are you doing it so better yourself in don't listen to the naysayers because I think that all of us in our heart knew exactly what we truly need. It's just that we don't believe it. We don't listen to it. Patti Dobrowolski 37:33 Right. Stacey Stevenson 37:33 But that we let the crowd lead us more than I think we let ourselves lead ourselves in our path. So that on yourself. And I think that this whole notion of you know, one of the things I got out of your session that we had with you the other day that the trading session, be outrageous. And I didn't know at the time that I was being outrageous on that couch. I didn't know at that time, it was being outrageous when I decided to be Charles Schwab. But when you said that the other day, I was like, Oh, I was being outrageous. And you know, in their outrageous is on a spectrum, right doesn't have to be something like you just left your job and you will have another income outrageous on a spectrum. But push yourself, be uncomfortable. Do something that's scary, and see what happens. And I think that we need to be more outrageous, less fearful and better ourselves. Patti Dobrowolski 38:20 Yeah. Stacey Stevenson 38:21 That's that's the key. Patti Dobrowolski 38:21 I love that. I love that big bet. Bet on yourself and be courageous and outrageous. You got to be outrageous. And that could be as simple as getting your eyebrows waxed. Who knows? Stacey Stevenson 38:32 Absolutely. Patti Dobrowolski 38:32 You know what I'm saying? Stacey Stevenson 38:34 And the best keep changing. Patti? I'll say that to you. That's right, maybe you're betting you know, this is happens when people are I'm not a gambler. But I'm sure that if you keep winning, you continue to bet on yourself. And even a bigger, bigger way. Keep up in the butt to keep increasing your bets, as you would be surprised at what happens and I'm sure you've done it in your life too. We're so afraid and we make that leap and that bet and maybe it doesn't happen exactly the way we think it's going to happen. But in the end, we end up where we need to be and. Patti Dobrowolski 38:59 That's right. Stacey Stevenson 39:00 That's what I suggest. Patti Dobrowolski 39:02 Yeah, I love it. And you know, the bigger the bet the more courage that you build and the more confidence you build to go out and do the next thing and the next thing because who knew you know you were just going in and reading a manual on applying for the job and getting it right and then look at where you are you know in the life you've built for yourself and that's really what it's about. So I thank you so much. Thank you hear this amazing it was so much fun and I can't wait to see you and have bagels with you. Stacey Stevenson 39:33 I'm craving bagels now Patti Dobrowolski 39:34 I know it. I thank you so much and listeners just for all of you. Just be sure to look in the show notes for how you can follow Stacey and get in on what she's doing and supporter in any way you can. And thank you again everybody go out you know do what you do and Up Your Creative Genius. Let's do this. Thank you Thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to DM me on Instagram your feedback or takeaways from today's episode on Up Your Creative Genius. Then join me next week for more rocket fuel. Remember, you are the superstar of your universe and the world needs what you have to bring. So get busy, get out and Up Your Creative Genius. And no matter where you are in the universe, here's some big love from yours truly Patti Dobrowolski and the Up Your Creative Genius podcast. That's a wrap.

Business Coaching Secrets with Karl Bryan Episode: 142 Karl answers questions from business coaches around the world with real-world strategies and tactics to grow your coaching business. - Tips for collecting payments - Coming out on top post COVID And more. Karl Bryan helps business coaches get clients. Period. For more magic on how you can grow a coaching business by attracting small business owners, filling local live events, andclosing more high end coaching clients... go to focused.com For a free subscription to my magazine The Six-Figure Coach go to thesixfigurecoach.com/get-it Be sure to subscribe, rate and share the show!

Covid And hospital Overflow. Sharon Humphreys Senior Transportation Engineer at SANDAG Talks With D & J About Moving The Rail Off the Bluff.

ICYMI: The Mo'Kelly Show Presents – Getting back to cruising on the high seas after Covid AND the difference between kids today and yesterday…PLUS – A playback of Mo's conversation with TV Host Scott Evans, who joined the program to introduce the hit USA Network series ‘America's Big Deal' on KFI AM 640 – Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app

Local and Bloom opened in the middle of the 2020 Pandemic and has been booming ever since! Co-Owners Julie Long and Stephan Tomlin make owning a local business look effortless in our community. You are welcomed with a smile and shown true hospitality every time you open the door. Local and Bloom offers local artists work such as paintings, wood working, hand pressed screen prints, candles, jewelry, honey, flowers and so much more. As the holiday season gears up do not forget to check out all the beautiful work the community has to offer. Not from here? No problem, check out their website, follow on IG or FB and see what is unboxed daily! Also, shipping direct to your gift recipient is an option. Timestamp2:17 – Is it hard being in business with your best friend?3:51 – How long have you been open?5:00 – How Amber came to love Local and Bloom7:18 – What does Local and Bloom bring to your life?  Local = Community8:15 – Pop-Ups and how why they work so well12:30 – Shop background – what does the future look like?13:40 – Upcoming events for the Holiday Season16:30 – Future of the building and flower gardens18:40 – Check out the website https://localandbloom.com/20:13 – Online started with Mother's Day boxes21:09 – COVID – And the challenges of starting a business21:45 – Accepting new artist localandbloom@gmail.com22:33 – Community over Competition23:09 – Pike Road School involvement24:15 – The Perfect Gift Idea26:25 – Women in Business groupFollow Local and Bloom on IG: @shoplocalandbloom  FB: @localandbloomFollow Inspiring Thyme on IG: @InspiringThyme FB: @InspiringThyme  Blog: www.inspiringthyme.com #shoplocal #localandbloom #localartist #localcrafts #giftideas #holidaygifting #inspiringthyme #groundedapodcastbyinspiringthyme #smallbusiness #womeninbusiness #localfloraldesign #onlinebusiness #communityovercompetition #popups #businesswithfriends #holiday #holidaygifts

Reyna Barravino-CisneSalon owner MLBFan displays his kindness by giving foul ball to little girl Los Angeles Angels' Shohei Ohtani has sore arm, might not pitch again this seasonNFL Calvin Johnson Has 1 Clear Demand For The LionsEX-NFL QB COLT BRENNANDEATH CAUSED BY ACCIDENTAL ODMethamphetamine, Fentanyl FoundPITTSBURGH STEELERSViolent Fight At Game ...WOMAN CITED FOR DISORDERLY CONDUCTNHL Red wings resign Civani Smith NHL expects 98% of players to be vaccinated before season, deputy commissioner Bill Daly saysNBABen Simmons has drawn trade offer from dark horse teamNets Kyrie Irving Would Retire From NBA Under One ConditionI Would Have Sold My Soul': Gabrielle Union Finally Speaks on Dwyane Wade Having a Child with Someone Else as She Dealt with an ‘Endless Cycle of Loss' Due to InfertilityBoxing 40 years ago today one of the greatest fights of all-time took place. “Sugar” Ray Leonard defeated Thomas “Hitman” Hearns He's a true heavyweight now': Oleksandr Usyk ready for Anthony JoshuaWrestling Rosario Dawson hops the barricade to kick off a Cody Rhodes/Malakai Black brawlLifestyle Hispanics & Latinos Continue To Be Marginalized In Popular Movies, USC Annenberg Report FindsLatino senators want more investment in Hispanic-serving colleges, universitiesCurrent Events Las Vegas events, venues begin requiring COVID-19 vaccination proofWrongly convicted man dies of Covid-19, nine years after he was exoneratedFDA vaccine advisers vote to recommend booster doses of Covid-19 vaccine in people 65 and older and those at high riskGeorgia restaurant forced to close after entire staff quits, posts sign on front doorVirginia woman gets 12 years in prison for one of the biggest coupon scams in U.S. historyCarmine's hostess attacked after asking diners for proof of vaccinationEntertainment Jeff Bridges had cancer & Covid And best it Nicki Minaj's Covid-19 vaccine 'swollen testicles' claim is false, says Trinidad health ministerChris Pérez Amicably Resolves Long Legal Battle with Selena Quintanilla's Family Aretha Franklin's 'Respect' tops Rolling Stone 500 greatest songs listWENDY WILLIAMSHOSPITALIZED FOR PSYCHIATRIC EVALUATION ...Show Premiere DelayedJESSICA ALBAHONEST CO. SUED FOR ALLEGED COVID-RELATED FRAUD ...Your Diaper Sales Claims Were Really ShittyShannen Doherty shares update on cancer battleSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

"On and ON, On and ON, Our Cypher Keeps Moving Like A Rolling Stone!" The PODIGAL SONS are Back with their Jesus episode! Yes Episode 33, The Newman Brothers jump into this episode with Football updates and a message about balancing work and life. @MrSpreadLove talks a bit about his workload while @BrothaBrandon speaks to the importance of talent vs hard work. Ya'll ever heard of the 3rd bus? Aye... COVID AINT NOTHING TO PLAY WITH!! The Podigal Sons talk about @MrSpreadLove's experience catching Covid AND the Flu. It made the brothers contemplate... Have you ever imagined yourself as an old person? This episode was recorded the day before 9/11 so the brothers talk a bit about their experience of the event 20 years ago!! Ya'll, The Podigal Sons are the men that know something and it's that they know nothing at all. Come listen to them as they learn a thing or two!

Andrew & Lindsey sip on an Avalon red blend and chat about...-Texas & their new abortion law-Gearing up for BottleRock (Be sure to follow @fresh.ethic for fun videos and photos throughout the weekend)-Joe Rogan catching Covid-And some advice for a listener when it comes to jealousyAndrew & Lindsey are currently...WATCHING______________We Broke UpBrand New Old LoveOblivionREADING_____________From the Files of Madison FinnPLAYING____________Axie InfinityDnDBaldursgateGet 20% off Kiss Magnetic Lashes Check out the best/easiest false lashes of your life and get a stellar discount with code WINETHIRTYSupport the show (https://paypal.me/freshethic1)

Here's What You'll Learn in our Interview with Bryan Bouchard: Using pre-construction as a hands off investment strategy Breaking through the age bias, investing and growing when your young Why do you want the property, what is your long term lifestyle goal Pivoting quickly with Airbnb's during COVID And much, much more! Bryan began as a multi-unit investor in 2009 at age 22 and used his skills to become a millionaire by the age of 30 and continues to expand his real estate portfolio, bringing others into his deals with investment partners, and offers completely hands off investment opportunities. He also works as a personal finance coach helping Canadians improve their money game by focusing on cash flow management, financial education, investment strategies, and transforming clients habits into those that are used by the most wealthy. Get In Touch With Bryan: Instagram: BRYAN | Wealth Management (@bryanjbouchard) • Instagram photos and videos LinkTree: Bryan Bouchard | Linktree

Steve Gruber Notes: Hour 2—The Steve Gruber Show—   Live from the no panic zone—I'm Steve Gruber—I am America's Voice— I am Fierce and Fearless— I am here to tell the truth—and if that offends you—I have to be honest—I don't care—somebody has to tell it to you straight—I'm the guy—   Here are three big Things you need to know right now—   Three— With the Border Crisis getting worse by the hour—you would think President Biden would take the heat—But the truth is—the problem is destroying Kamala Harris in the polls—   Two— The New York Times slammed the door on a reporters suggestion to investigate the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic—and all because President Trump suggested a lab leak—how embarrassing—   One— Former President Barack Obama is going to be 60 on August 4th—and he will be celebrating with about 700 of his closest friends—and they will all gather at his estate on Martha's Vineyard next weekend to mark the occasion—   A-list superstars like Oprah Winfrey—George Clooney and Steven Spielberg are on the guest list—   Plus a special performance by the band Pearl Jam is also on the list of attractions for the 44th President's bash—   And this is all fine and well—BUT it flies in the face of guidelines from the National Institutes of Health—Francis Collins—and others who are strongly suggesting to the rest of America that big parties should not happen—because there really is no way to know who is vaccinated or who might be sick with Covid—   And the event comes in the wake of a super spreader event in another Massachusetts tourist haven—Provincetown—the P-town gathering has resulted in hundreds of cases of Covid—and 76% of those are reported among people that are full vaccinated—   Of course this also comes after Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi paraded around with no mask in violation of her own orders just last week—and Washington DC Mayor Muriel Bowser officiated a wedding—maskless over the weekend in a big crowd—after she imposed new mask mandates in her city—   You see all of these rules are for little people—for Barack—Nancy and the Mayor—these rules do not apply to them—but just to the peasants—whom they accuse of being reckless and “putting peoples lives at risk” if they don't get vaxxed and masked—even in their own homes—  

In today's video, I share some of the new job interview questions employers are starting to ask post Covid - And most importantly, how to best answer them. THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ******************************* Website: https://isaacoseikissi.com Blog: https://isaacoseikissi.com/blog Podcast: https://anchor.fm/thebridgeafrica Course (Employment Readiness Training Program): https://ghcourses.com

Blayne Shaw is an entrepreneur who worked in his family’s fashion business. Toyah Warnock is a Chemistry PhD who worked in a lab.    Now they’re co-founders of Lane44: an eco-friendly shaving company who are on a mission to end the 1 billion plastic razors sent to landfill sites each year.   In today’s episode we talk about: How the humble yet might safety razor is better for your skin and planet The mad whirlwind of e-commerce and influencer marketing during COVID And why your bathroom is the least environmentally friendly room in your house.   Check it out!   //   Webpage for this episode: https://bestofbelfast.org/stories/lane44-eco-friendly-razor //

Evelyn Theatre Opening The Evelyn Theater is set to re-open on Friday May 28th! The Evelyn will be showing The Quiet Place Part 2 and Mortal Combat! Going forward the theater will be open every evening at 7:00 p.m. and will have one show nightly on both screens! Evelyn Theater owner Randy Niese told the Moore County Journal on Saturday, "We have been closed for 15 months and have not only missed seeing our customers, but have also missed bringing you the best entertainment in town!" The 15 month COVID shutdown marks the longest stretch for which the theater has ever been closed. Many hometown theaters across the U.S. have not been able to re-open after COVID And have shut down permanently. As major movie companies release more movies onto streaming platforms, small town Americans may find it harder to enjoy the big screen movie experience. Gentleman Jim McCarty Surgery Legendary local radio announcer Gentleman Jim McCarty was transferred to a Lubbock hospital this week! KDDD released a statement on Facebook saying Jim was "rushed to M.C.H.D. and was then flown to Lubbock after suffering a brain shift, brain bleed, and water on the brain." He was to undergo surgery but it was delayed. Friends of McCarty have started a Go Fund Me page to raise money for his surgery. DHS Graduations Dumas High School held a parade of graduates on Tuesday! The 2021 graduates visited Dumas elementary schools and paraded the halls in their caps and gowns. They spoke to students to inspire them to keep working hard toward reaching their own graduation. Sunray I.S.D Sunray I.S.D. Cosmetology School will be starting summer hours on June 7th. Hours will be Monday through Thursday from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. The school will provide services including hair, nails and facials. For a complete list of services and prices you can check out the Sunray I.S.D. Facebook page or Call 806-948-2116 to schedule an appointment. Cactus 4th of July The City of Cactus announced they will be hosting their 6th annual 4th of July Celebration again this year. Festivities will begin at 11:30 a.m. with a parade on main street followed by several events at the Cactus Park. There will be live music, food trucks, bouncy houses and outdoor games including volleyball. Sunray Volunteer Fire Department The Sunray Volunteer Fire Dept. is looking to recruit new volunteers. If you are interested in joining the fire department, get in touch with them on Facebook. Search for @SunrayTXVFD to find them. Dumas Quarterback Club Little Demon Football Camp is back after last year's cancellation. Registration forms are available on the Dumas I.S.D. website under Athletics & Summer Camps. The Dumas Quarterback Club is asking parents to fill out and turn in the forms early so they can have the proper sizes of shirts on hand for the 1st day. Little Demon Football Camp registration will be open from April 19th through July 23rd. The camp will be held July 26th through the 29th. It is open for incoming 1st through 6th graders.

In this episode, join Paul Mort and fitness model & influencer Paul Olima Paul is best know for making his funny, short "skitz" on his instagram profile where he keeps thousands chuckling from day to day, this one was a SCREAM.. Here's what we covered >>  Racism growing up in Dublin, body doubling Mario Ballotelli, Usain Bolt and Anthony Joshua, removing negativity from your everyday life, Insecurities and authenticity, Raising a kid and being a dad aswell as his experience with having Covid And so much more... For show notes, updates and free stuff.. don't forget to subscribe to the podcast AND head on over to http://paulmort.uk

TOSPWSAJ is back with the exciting 1-part conclusion to a mind-shredding season 3,000 of the TOSPY nominated podcast TOSPWSAJ! Today, Kip and Doug and Prince Harry and Meghan Markle review reviews for Underwear, Trucks, JG Wentworth, Sweet James, Covid19, and Coasters! PLUS, Kip finds out why everybody is rating Yankee Candle Scented Candles 1-Star in 2020. (Hint: They have Covid) AND, Doug counts down the top 10 Amazon reviewers of the week! You'll never guess who's in the top spot! Note: We are still going for a perfect 1-star rating. It's down to 1.4 now, but we can do worse! LIKE IT OR HATE IT, YOU GOTTA RATE IT... ONE STAR! Sponsor - Tospwsaj Scented Candles - Now available in 4 varieties of "Morning Diaper" 

In this edition of the podcast, Dr. Porter sits down with Dr. Jason Chiriano, a board-certified vascular and general surgeon. Dr. Chiriano has been in practice for over ten years and has focused his career on delivering education on the epidemics of diabetes, vascular disease, and tobacco abuse. He believes with education, people can live happier and healthier lives. Dr. Chiriano has spent the latter part of his career looking at ways our cognitive health plays into our physical health. Today, he's giving us an update on the state of healthcare workers during the COVID-19 pandemic; and discusses how many of these heroes are suffering from depression and anxiety; as well as highlighting the rise in incidences of post-traumatic stress syndrome many healthcare workers face as a result of the uncertainty and stress of the pandemic. His concern is how we will cope as a society with the isolation and changes to our way of life and offers ways to keep ourselves healthy physically and emotionally. Listen in and learn: -Solutions for healthcare workers to stay safe -The harm our emotional state is doing to our immune system -The importance of emotional balance during stressful times -How the current health crises is changing the healthcare model -Strategies for decreasing inflammatory markers in the body -How stem cell therapy could influence treatment for COVID -And much more… To find out more about Dr. Chiriano visit his Instagram @dr_limbreaper

This podcast episode discusses how being long-distance affects your relationship.  It includes: -separation can be an advantage for your relationship satisfaction -identify your needs -have your own life -improve communication -build trust and create shared boundaries and expectations -make plans and have regular points of contact -know each other's Love Language -acknowledge your partner's daily events & successes -have video dates, sexting, etc for intimacy -Determine levels of commitment- long and short-term -Comfort your Wounded Child re loneliness -Do virtual holidays, especially during COVID And more! If you want to do relationship coaching with Dr. Sherman, check out her website To learn about the film, 'Going the Distance' To read Dr. Sherman's dating book, 'Dating from the Inside Out,' click here  

Jenna Phillips Ballard began her career in 2006 as a certified personal trainer and life coach for celebrities such as Ben Stiller and Katy Perry and has been featured on Dr. Phil and The Doctors. Halfway through her career, she realized that she had a bigger calling. In 2016, she co-founded Ascension Leadership Academy with her husband, Brad, and together they have coached thousands of people into their greatness. She has created multiple 6-figure and 7-figure purpose-driven businesses that have globally impacted the world. She has fed villages and orphanages in Malawi, brought safe clean drinking water to villages in Tanzania and even worked with inmates at maximum security prison Pelican Bay doing various humanitarian activities. Her mission is to inspire and empower as many women as possible to fully love themselves and tap into their magic so that they can live their best, fully-expressed lives and have it all. Jenna has been a huge catalyst in my own personal transformation journey and I can't wait for you to hear everything we chatted about in this episode! In this episode, you will learn... What it REALLY means to be abundant What to do when life throws you curveballs and stuff you didn't expect! The truth about what happens when you discount your services A process that will help you get clear about what you should vs shouldn't be doing with your time and energy A powerful tool to get you in your zone of genius How to create more space on your plate A KEY question to ask yourself when you're having trouble letting go of control The truth about your experience during COVID And so much more… **BE SURE TO SCREENSHOT & SHARE your favorite parts to your Instagram story and tag me @ashley.hann and @jennaphillipsballard so we can repost to our stories as well. :) Watch out for the launch of Jenna's new website www.jennaphillipsballard.com (created by yours truly) SOON! Join her Facebook group "The Empress Alliance" here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/theempressalliance Follow her on Instagram @jennaphillipsballard Are you ready to level up and become a fully-expressed, fully-activated Female On Fire? Go to www.femaleonfire.net now! IF YOU FOUND THIS EPISODE VALUABLE-- please please be sure to leave a rating and review! It really does mean a lot to me and inspires me to continue to create more awesome episodes. My Website: www.ashleyhann.com Instagram: @ashley.hann Twitter: @itsashleyhann YouTube: @ashleyhann

Stand up comedian Iain Pringle talks to Greg and Chris about  His beginnings in comedy His work in mental health advocacy  Comedy inspiration  Gigging stories Inspiration through COVID  And much more  Instagram  Iain Pringle - @iainpringle Cddc @cddcpodcast  Greg - @gregcddc Chris - @chris_shields67

Meet Residential Real Estate Agent Steven Kenny sharing ALL the tips and tricks for getting the best bang for your buck during COVID AND of course inspiring us all through the process! 

(0:00) Show Open: Covid Camp For Kids Coronavirus infects 200 kids at summer camp where they didn't have to wear masks A school district in Hancock County, Indiana brought students back on Thursday . . . and one high school student tested positive for coronavirus on the first day.  For now they're keeping the school open. On a related note, 82% of parents nationwide say they're very worried about sending their kids back to school. (11:00) Entertainment News   Sean Penn Married Vincent D'Onofrio's 28 year old Daughter. His daughter is 29 Wilford Brimley, ‘Cocoon' and ‘Natural' actor, dies at 85 Downcast Ellen DeGeneres steps out with a pal in Santa Monica as TV exec reveals she will NOT quit her show, despite backlash over staff claims of a toxic work environment and rumors that James Corden could replace her in the time slot (22:10) Judy Gold Promoting: new book “Yes, I Can Say That  …out July 28th.    …. Judy will  talk on state of comedy during COVID AND comedy in current PC era Judy says, “Laughter is a unifier. It's the best medicine. It's also the most palatable way to bring up seditious, subversive topics.” In her book, she writes eleven impassioned polemics that frame comedy as a tool for empowerment using her almost four decades of experience as a comedian. Her book is a powerful—but of course very funny—look at the dangers of censorship in our culture and society today and in it, she proves that this is the manifesto we all need right now. (33:50) Dumbass of the Day   Wild Video Shows Florida Man Hanging Off The Front Windshield Of Speeding Semi-Truck A Guy with a Backpack of Drugs Flees a Crash . . . And Hides in a Fire Station Homeowner cited after renting out pool to host 85-kid swimming party Clippers' Lou Williams Reportedly Received Dances From Multiple Strippers (of course he did) While He Was Waiting For His Chicken Wings At Magic City     (43:30) Sex and Corona   A cam porn site where dudes hire women for sexual video chats has a new program:  Free, G-rated one-on-one chats between camgirls and lonely senior citizens who are locked down because of the pandemic.   There's been a jump in the number of people using their phones as ADULT TOYS during the pandemic.  Apps that make your phone strategically vibrate have seen a 171% increase over the past five months. (49:45)  It's A Nice Day For A...White Trash Wedding Bride throws mother-in-law out of wedding as she heckles her during personal vows   Support the show: https://podcave.app/subscribe/the-world-famous-frank-show-4eehjczc See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tyler lives in Maui, HI and has been investing in real estate for 13 years. At 21 he acquired his first student rental property, quickly understood the potential of the industry, and never looked back. In that time he's been a part of over 100 real estate transactions consisting of everything from small single family flips to larger multi-family repositions. Tyler currently controls assets throughout Alabama, Texas, Ohio, and North Carolina. Tyler attributes a lot of his success to the foundational knowledge he acquired from David Lindahl's training, David is one of the nations leading experts in the multi-family space. Now, aside from building his own portfolio and spending time with his family, Tyler teaches that same training to help new and seasoned investors acquire multi-family properties. He has an innate desire to build relationships, provide service, and help people experience a better quality of life. Today's Topic's Include: Tyler's attempt to stop his Mom's car from being stolen How he got started in real estate How he turns failure into learning lessons How providing value to others will result in 10 times that value being returned to you How he bought his first multifamily with $50k in credit cards How his properties have performed through COVID And much much more Connect with Tyler Email: Tyler@mfcapitalpartners.com https://mfcapitalpartners.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tyler-deveraux/ Connect with Us: Website: www.themultifamilytakeoff.com Instagram: http://instagram.com/themultifamilytakeoff Email: Mike: Mike@themultifamilytakeoff.com Shawn: shawn@themultifamilytakeoff.com Rich: rich@themultifamilytakeoff.com DON'T FORGET TO SUBSCRIBE, RATE, REVIEW, AND SHARE

Today's guest in Mike Vann. Mike's early real estate experience comes from the family construction business where he worked his way through college and was able to gain the skills necessary to manage all aspects of construction and project management. After college, Mike entered the corporate world and has had a successful 20+ year career in Medical Sales with the last 15 years spent in the Medical Device Industry. This unique combination of skill sets served him well as he built a personal real estate portfolio of over $6M across multiple asset classes while working full time. He enjoys educating people on real estate investment and has been featured on multiple podcasts and speaks at local REI meetups. Mike currently lives in Springfield, MO with his wife Aline and their two children. He enjoys spending time with family, hunting, fishing and snow skiing. Mike has a heart for mission work and believes that “We are blessed to be a blessing to others”. He lives this out through serving others locally, nationally and internationally. Today's Topics Include: How Mike got started in multifamily real estate Why his first deal was a 100 unit in Prior, OK How he makes investing in a rural community work How he managed to build his portfolio while working his full-time medical sales job How he likes to give back to his community How his properties have performed through COVID And much more Connect with Mike Vann: Website: www.tridentmultifamily.com Connect with Us: Connect with Us: Website: www.themultifamilytakeoff.com Instagram: http://instagram.com/themultifamilytakeoff Email: Mike: Mike@themultifamilytakeoff.com Shawn: shawn@themultifamilytakeoff.com Rich: rich@themultifamilytakeoff.com DON'T FORGET TO SUBSCRIBE, RATE, REVIEW, AND SHARE

Spencer is an interesting person. He grew up in West Texas. We talk about stoicism, multiple sclerosis, autism, and yet this podcast feels hopeful we even talked about Covid And it still feels hopeful. Because of community will get through this y'all. Garland Pepper --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/gary-fox2/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/gary-fox2/support