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Bryan Cantrill is the co-founder and CTO of Oxide Computer Company. We discuss why the biggest cloud providers don't use off the shelf hardware, how scaling data centers at samsung's scale exposed problems with hard drive firmware, how the values of NodeJS are in conflict with robust systems, choosing Rust, and the benefits of Oxide Computer's rack scale approach. This is an extended version of an interview posted on Software Engineering Radio. Related links Oxide Computer Oxide and Friends Illumos Platform as a Reflection of Values RFD 26 bhyve CockroachDB Heterogeneous Computing with Raja Koduri Transcript You can help correct transcripts on GitHub. Intro [00:00:00] Jeremy: Today I am talking to Bryan Cantrill. He's the co-founder and CTO of Oxide computer company, and he was previously the CTO of Joyent and he also co-authored the DTrace Tracing framework while he was at Sun Microsystems. [00:00:14] Jeremy: Bryan, welcome to Software Engineering radio. [00:00:17] Bryan: Uh, awesome. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. [00:00:20] Jeremy: You're the CTO of a company that makes computers. But I think before we get into that, a lot of people who built software, now that the actual computer is abstracted away, they're using AWS or they're using some kind of cloud service. So I thought we could start by talking about, data centers. [00:00:41] Jeremy: 'cause you were. Previously working at Joyent, and I believe you got bought by Samsung and you've previously talked about how you had to figure out, how do I run things at Samsung's scale. So how, how, how was your experience with that? What, what were the challenges there? Samsung scale and migrating off the cloud [00:01:01] Bryan: Yeah, I mean, so at Joyent, and so Joyent was a cloud computing pioneer. Uh, we competed with the likes of AWS and then later GCP and Azure. Uh, and we, I mean, we were operating at a scale, right? We had a bunch of machines, a bunch of dcs, but ultimately we know we were a VC backed company and, you know, a small company by the standards of, certainly by Samsung standards. [00:01:25] Bryan: And so when, when Samsung bought the company, I mean, the reason by the way that Samsung bought Joyent is Samsung's. Cloud Bill was, uh, let's just say it was extremely large. They were spending an enormous amount of money every year on, on the public cloud. And they realized that in order to secure their fate economically, they had to be running on their own infrastructure. [00:01:51] Bryan: It did not make sense. And there's not, was not really a product that Samsung could go buy that would give them that on-prem cloud. Uh, I mean in that, in that regard, like the state of the market was really no different. And so they went looking for a company, uh, and bought, bought Joyent. And when we were on the inside of Samsung. [00:02:11] Bryan: That we learned about Samsung scale. And Samsung loves to talk about Samsung scale. And I gotta tell you, it is more than just chest thumping. Like Samsung Scale really is, I mean, just the, the sheer, the number of devices, the number of customers, just this absolute size. they really wanted to take us out to, to levels of scale, certainly that we had not seen. [00:02:31] Bryan: The reason for buying Joyent was to be able to stand up on their own infrastructure so that we were gonna go buy, we did go buy a bunch of hardware. Problems with server hardware at scale [00:02:40] Bryan: And I remember just thinking, God, I hope Dell is somehow magically better. I hope the problems that we have seen in the small, we just. You know, I just remember hoping and hope is hope. It was of course, a terrible strategy and it was a terrible strategy here too. Uh, and the we that the problems that we saw at the large were, and when you scale out the problems that you see kind of once or twice, you now see all the time and they become absolutely debilitating. [00:03:12] Bryan: And we saw a whole series of really debilitating problems. I mean, many ways, like comically debilitating, uh, in terms of, of showing just how bad the state-of-the-art. Yes. And we had, I mean, it should be said, we had great software and great software expertise, um, and we were controlling our own system software. [00:03:35] Bryan: But even controlling your own system software, your own host OS, your own control plane, which is what we had at Joyent, ultimately, you're pretty limited. You go, I mean, you got the problems that you can obviously solve, the ones that are in your own software, but the problems that are beneath you, the, the problems that are in the hardware platform, the problems that are in the componentry beneath you become the problems that are in the firmware. IO latency due to hard drive firmware [00:04:00] Bryan: Those problems become unresolvable and they are deeply, deeply frustrating. Um, and we just saw a bunch of 'em again, they were. Comical in retrospect, and I'll give you like a, a couple of concrete examples just to give, give you an idea of what kinda what you're looking at. one of the, our data centers had really pathological IO latency. [00:04:23] Bryan: we had a very, uh, database heavy workload. And this was kind of right at the period where you were still deploying on rotating media on hard drives. So this is like, so. An all flash buy did not make economic sense when we did this in, in 2016. This probably, it'd be interesting to know like when was the, the kind of the last time that that actual hard drives made sense? [00:04:50] Bryan: 'cause I feel this was close to it. So we had a, a bunch of, of a pathological IO problems, but we had one data center in which the outliers were actually quite a bit worse and there was so much going on in that system. It took us a long time to figure out like why. And because when, when you, when you're io when you're seeing worse io I mean you're naturally, you wanna understand like what's the workload doing? [00:05:14] Bryan: You're trying to take a first principles approach. What's the workload doing? So this is a very intensive database workload to support the, the object storage system that we had built called Manta. And that the, the metadata tier was stored and uh, was we were using Postgres for that. And that was just getting absolutely slaughtered. [00:05:34] Bryan: Um, and ultimately very IO bound with these kind of pathological IO latencies. Uh, and as we, you know, trying to like peel away the layers to figure out what was going on. And I finally had this thing. So it's like, okay, we are seeing at the, at the device layer, at the at, at the disc layer, we are seeing pathological outliers in this data center that we're not seeing anywhere else. [00:06:00] Bryan: And that does not make any sense. And the thought occurred to me. I'm like, well, maybe we are. Do we have like different. Different rev of firmware on our HGST drives, HGST. Now part of WD Western Digital were the drives that we had everywhere. And, um, so maybe we had a different, maybe I had a firmware bug. [00:06:20] Bryan: I, this would not be the first time in my life at all that I would have a drive firmware issue. Uh, and I went to go pull the firmware, rev, and I'm like, Toshiba makes hard drives? So we had, I mean. I had no idea that Toshiba even made hard drives, let alone that they were our, they were in our data center. [00:06:38] Bryan: I'm like, what is this? And as it turns out, and this is, you know, part of the, the challenge when you don't have an integrated system, which not to pick on them, but Dell doesn't, and what Dell would routinely put just sub make substitutes, and they make substitutes that they, you know, it's kind of like you're going to like, I don't know, Instacart or whatever, and they're out of the thing that you want. [00:07:03] Bryan: So, you know, you're, someone makes a substitute and like sometimes that's okay, but it's really not okay in a data center. And you really want to develop and validate a, an end-to-end integrated system. And in this case, like Toshiba doesn't, I mean, Toshiba does make hard drives, but they are a, or the data they did, uh, they basically were, uh, not competitive and they were not competitive in part for the reasons that we were discovering. [00:07:29] Bryan: They had really serious firmware issues. So the, these were drives that would just simply stop a, a stop acknowledging any reads from the order of 2,700 milliseconds. Long time, 2.7 seconds. Um. And that was a, it was a drive firmware issue, but it was highlighted like a much deeper issue, which was the simple lack of control that we had over our own destiny. [00:07:53] Bryan: Um, and it's an, it's, it's an example among many where Dell is making a decision. That lowers the cost of what they are providing you marginally, but it is then giving you a system that they shouldn't have any confidence in because it's not one that they've actually designed and they leave it to the customer, the end user, to make these discoveries. [00:08:18] Bryan: And these things happen up and down the stack. And for every, for whether it's, and, and not just to pick on Dell because it's, it's true for HPE, it's true for super micro, uh, it's true for your switch vendors. It's, it's true for storage vendors where the, the, the, the one that is left actually integrating these things and trying to make the the whole thing work is the end user sitting in their data center. AWS / Google are not buying off the shelf hardware but you can't use it [00:08:42] Bryan: There's not a product that they can buy that gives them elastic infrastructure, a cloud in their own DC The, the product that you buy is the public cloud. Like when you go in the public cloud, you don't worry about the stuff because that it's, it's AWS's issue or it's GCP's issue. And they are the ones that get this to ground. [00:09:02] Bryan: And they, and this was kind of, you know, the eye-opening moment. Not a surprise. Uh, they are not Dell customers. They're not HPE customers. They're not super micro customers. They have designed their own machines. And to varying degrees, depending on which one you're looking at. But they've taken the clean sheet of paper and the frustration that we had kind of at Joyent and beginning to wonder and then Samsung and kind of wondering what was next, uh, is that, that what they built was not available for purchase in the data center. [00:09:35] Bryan: You could only rent it in the public cloud. And our big belief is that public cloud computing is a really important revolution in infrastructure. Doesn't feel like a different, a deep thought, but cloud computing is a really important revolution. It shouldn't only be available to rent. You should be able to actually buy it. [00:09:53] Bryan: And there are a bunch of reasons for doing that. Uh, one in the one we we saw at Samsung is economics, which I think is still the dominant reason where it just does not make sense to rent all of your compute in perpetuity. But there are other reasons too. There's security, there's risk management, there's latency. [00:10:07] Bryan: There are a bunch of reasons why one might wanna to own one's own infrastructure. But, uh, that was very much the, the, so the, the genesis for oxide was coming out of this very painful experience and a painful experience that, because, I mean, a long answer to your question about like what was it like to be at Samsung scale? [00:10:27] Bryan: Those are the kinds of things that we, I mean, in our other data centers, we didn't have Toshiba drives. We only had the HDSC drives, but it's only when you get to this larger scale that you begin to see some of these pathologies. But these pathologies then are really debilitating in terms of those who are trying to develop a service on top of them. [00:10:45] Bryan: So it was, it was very educational in, in that regard. And you're very grateful for the experience at Samsung in terms of opening our eyes to the challenge of running at that kind of scale. [00:10:57] Jeremy: Yeah, because I, I think as software engineers, a lot of times we, we treat the hardware as a, as a given where, [00:11:08] Bryan: Yeah. [00:11:08] Bryan: Yeah. There's software in chard drives [00:11:09] Jeremy: It sounds like in, in this case, I mean, maybe the issue is not so much that. Dell or HP as a company doesn't own every single piece that they're providing you, but rather the fact that they're swapping pieces in and out without advertising them, and then when it becomes a problem, they're not necessarily willing to, to deal with the, the consequences of that. [00:11:34] Bryan: They just don't know. I mean, I think they just genuinely don't know. I mean, I think that they, it's not like they're making a deliberate decision to kind of ship garbage. It's just that they are making, I mean, I think it's exactly what you said about like, not thinking about the hardware. It's like, what's a hard drive? [00:11:47] Bryan: Like what's it, I mean, it's a hard drive. It's got the same specs as this other hard drive and Intel. You know, it's a little bit cheaper, so why not? It's like, well, like there's some reasons why not, and one of the reasons why not is like, uh, even a hard drive, whether it's rotating media or, or flash, like that's not just hardware. [00:12:05] Bryan: There's software in there. And that the software's like not the same. I mean, there are components where it's like, there's actually, whether, you know, if, if you're looking at like a resistor or a capacitor or something like this Yeah. If you've got two, two parts that are within the same tolerance. Yeah. [00:12:19] Bryan: Like sure. Maybe, although even the EEs I think would be, would be, uh, objecting that a little bit. But the, the, the more complicated you get, and certainly once you get to the, the, the, the kind of the hardware that we think of like a, a, a microprocessor, a a network interface card, a a, a hard driver, an NVME drive. [00:12:38] Bryan: Those things are super complicated and there's a whole bunch of software inside of those things, the firmware, and that's the stuff that, that you can't, I mean, you say that software engineers don't think about that. It's like you, no one can really think about that because it's proprietary that's kinda welded shut and you've got this abstraction into it. [00:12:55] Bryan: But the, the way that thing operates is very core to how the thing in aggregate will behave. And I think that you, the, the kind of, the, the fundamental difference between Oxide's approach and the approach that you get at a Dell HP Supermicro, wherever, is really thinking holistically in terms of hardware and software together in a system that, that ultimately delivers cloud computing to a user. [00:13:22] Bryan: And there's a lot of software at many, many, many, many different layers. And it's very important to think about, about that software and that hardware holistically as a single system. [00:13:34] Jeremy: And during that time at Joyent, when you experienced some of these issues, was it more of a case of you didn't have enough servers experiencing this? So if it would happen, you might say like, well, this one's not working, so maybe we'll just replace the hardware. What, what was the thought process when you were working at that smaller scale and, and how did these issues affect you? UEFI / Baseboard Management Controller [00:13:58] Bryan: Yeah, at the smaller scale, you, uh, you see fewer of them, right? You just see it's like, okay, we, you know, what you might see is like, that's weird. We kinda saw this in one machine versus seeing it in a hundred or a thousand or 10,000. Um, so you just, you just see them, uh, less frequently as a result, they are less debilitating. [00:14:16] Bryan: Um, I, I think that it's, when you go to that larger scale, those things that become, that were unusual now become routine and they become debilitating. Um, so it, it really is in many regards a function of scale. Uh, and then I think it was also, you know, it was a little bit dispiriting that kind of the substrate we were building on really had not improved. [00:14:39] Bryan: Um, and if you look at, you know, the, if you buy a computer server, buy an x86 server. There is a very low layer of firmware, the BIOS, the basic input output system, the UEFI BIOS, and this is like an abstraction layer that has, has existed since the eighties and hasn't really meaningfully improved. Um, the, the kind of the transition to UEFI happened with, I mean, I, I ironically with Itanium, um, you know, two decades ago. [00:15:08] Bryan: but beyond that, like this low layer, this lowest layer of platform enablement software is really only impeding the operability of the system. Um, you look at the baseboard management controller, which is the kind of the computer within the computer, there is a, uh, there is an element in the machine that needs to handle environmentals, that needs to handle, uh, operate the fans and so on. [00:15:31] Bryan: Uh, and that traditionally has this, the space board management controller, and that architecturally just hasn't improved in the last two decades. And, you know, that's, it's a proprietary piece of silicon. Generally from a company that no one's ever heard of called a Speed, uh, which has to be, is written all on caps, so I guess it needs to be screamed. [00:15:50] Bryan: Um, a speed has a proprietary part that has a, there is a root password infamously there, is there, the root password is encoded effectively in silicon. So, uh, which is just, and for, um, anyone who kind of goes deep into these things, like, oh my God, are you kidding me? Um, when we first started oxide, the wifi password was a fraction of the a speed root password for the bmc. [00:16:16] Bryan: It's kinda like a little, little BMC humor. Um, but those things, it was just dispiriting that, that the, the state-of-the-art was still basically personal computers running in the data center. Um, and that's part of what, what was the motivation for doing something new? [00:16:32] Jeremy: And for the people using these systems, whether it's the baseboard management controller or it's the The BIOS or UF UEFI component, what are the actual problems that people are seeing seen? Security vulnerabilities and poor practices in the BMC [00:16:51] Bryan: Oh man, I, the, you are going to have like some fraction of your listeners, maybe a big fraction where like, yeah, like what are the problems? That's a good question. And then you're gonna have the people that actually deal with these things who are, did like their heads already hit the desk being like, what are the problems? [00:17:06] Bryan: Like what are the non problems? Like what, what works? Actually, that's like a shorter answer. Um, I mean, there are so many problems and a lot of it is just like, I mean, there are problems just architecturally these things are just so, I mean, and you could, they're the problems spread to the horizon, so you can kind of start wherever you want. [00:17:24] Bryan: But I mean, as like, as a really concrete example. Okay, so the, the BMCs that, that the computer within the computer that needs to be on its own network. So you now have like not one network, you got two networks that, and that network, by the way, it, that's the network that you're gonna log into to like reset the machine when it's otherwise unresponsive. [00:17:44] Bryan: So that going into the BMC, you can are, you're able to control the entire machine. Well it's like, alright, so now I've got a second net network that I need to manage. What is running on the BMC? Well, it's running some. Ancient, ancient version of Linux it that you got. It's like, well how do I, how do I patch that? [00:18:02] Bryan: How do I like manage the vulnerabilities with that? Because if someone is able to root your BMC, they control the system. So it's like, this is not you've, and now you've gotta go deal with all of the operational hair around that. How do you upgrade that system updating the BMC? I mean, it's like you've got this like second shadow bad infrastructure that you have to go manage. [00:18:23] Bryan: Generally not open source. There's something called open BMC, um, which, um, you people use to varying degrees, but you're generally stuck with the proprietary BMC, so you're generally stuck with, with iLO from HPE or iDRAC from Dell or, or, uh, the, uh, su super micros, BMC, that H-P-B-M-C, and you are, uh, it is just excruciating pain. [00:18:49] Bryan: Um, and that this is assuming that by the way, that everything is behaving correctly. The, the problem is that these things often don't behave correctly, and then the consequence of them not behaving correctly. It's really dire because it's at that lowest layer of the system. So, I mean, I'll give you a concrete example. [00:19:07] Bryan: a customer of theirs reported to me, so I won't disclose the vendor, but let's just say that a well-known vendor had an issue with their, their temperature sensors were broken. Um, and the thing would always read basically the wrong value. So it was the BMC that had to like, invent its own ki a different kind of thermal control loop. [00:19:28] Bryan: And it would index on the, on the, the, the, the actual inrush current. It would, they would look at that at the current that's going into the CPU to adjust the fan speed. That's a great example of something like that's a, that's an interesting idea. That doesn't work. 'cause that's actually not the temperature. [00:19:45] Bryan: So like that software would crank the fans whenever you had an inrush of current and this customer had a workload that would spike the current and by it, when it would spike the current, the, the, the fans would kick up and then they would slowly degrade over time. Well, this workload was spiking the current faster than the fans would degrade, but not fast enough to actually heat up the part. [00:20:08] Bryan: And ultimately over a very long time, in a very painful investigation, it's customer determined that like my fans are cranked in my data center for no reason. We're blowing cold air. And it's like that, this is on the order of like a hundred watts, a server of, of energy that you shouldn't be spending and like that ultimately what that go comes down to this kind of broken software hardware interface at the lowest layer that has real meaningful consequence, uh, in terms of hundreds of kilowatts, um, across a data center. So this stuff has, has very, very, very real consequence and it's such a shadowy world. Part of the reason that, that your listeners that have dealt with this, that our heads will hit the desk is because it is really aggravating to deal with problems with this layer. [00:21:01] Bryan: You, you feel powerless. You don't control or really see the software that's on them. It's generally proprietary. You are relying on your vendor. Your vendor is telling you that like, boy, I don't know. You're the only customer seeing this. I mean, the number of times I have heard that for, and I, I have pledged that we're, we're not gonna say that at oxide because it's such an unaskable thing to say like, you're the only customer saying this. [00:21:25] Bryan: It's like, it feels like, are you blaming me for my problem? Feels like you're blaming me for my problem? Um, and what you begin to realize is that to a degree, these folks are speaking their own truth because the, the folks that are running at real scale at Hyperscale, those folks aren't Dell, HP super micro customers. [00:21:46] Bryan: They're actually, they've done their own thing. So it's like, yeah, Dell's not seeing that problem, um, because they're not running at the same scale. Um, but when you do run, you only have to run at modest scale before these things just become. Overwhelming in terms of the, the headwind that they present to people that wanna deploy infrastructure. The problem is felt with just a few racks [00:22:05] Jeremy: Yeah, so maybe to help people get some perspective at, at what point do you think that people start noticing or start feeling these problems? Because I imagine that if you're just have a few racks or [00:22:22] Bryan: do you have a couple racks or the, or do you wonder or just wondering because No, no, no. I would think, I think anyone who deploys any number of servers, especially now, especially if your experience is only in the cloud, you're gonna be like, what the hell is this? I mean, just again, just to get this thing working at all. [00:22:39] Bryan: It is so it, it's so hairy and so congealed, right? It's not designed. Um, and it, it, it, it's accreted it and it's so obviously accreted that you are, I mean, nobody who is setting up a rack of servers is gonna think to themselves like, yes, this is the right way to go do it. This all makes sense because it's, it's just not, it, I, it feels like the kit, I mean, kit car's almost too generous because it implies that there's like a set of plans to work to in the end. [00:23:08] Bryan: Uh, I mean, it, it, it's a bag of bolts. It's a bunch of parts that you're putting together. And so even at the smallest scales, that stuff is painful. Just architecturally, it's painful at the small scale then, but at least you can get it working. I think the stuff that then becomes debilitating at larger scale are the things that are, are worse than just like, I can't, like this thing is a mess to get working. [00:23:31] Bryan: It's like the, the, the fan issue that, um, where you are now seeing this over, you know, hundreds of machines or thousands of machines. Um, so I, it is painful at more or less all levels of scale. There's, there is no level at which the, the, the pc, which is really what this is, this is a, the, the personal computer architecture from the 1980s and there is really no level of scale where that's the right unit. Running elastic infrastructure is the hardware but also, hypervisor, distributed database, api, etc [00:23:57] Bryan: I mean, where that's the right thing to go deploy, especially if what you are trying to run. Is elastic infrastructure, a cloud. Because the other thing is like we, we've kinda been talking a lot about that hardware layer. Like hardware is, is just the start. Like you actually gotta go put software on that and actually run that as elastic infrastructure. [00:24:16] Bryan: So you need a hypervisor. Yes. But you need a lot more than that. You, you need to actually, you, you need a distributed database, you need web endpoints. You need, you need a CLI, you need all the stuff that you need to actually go run an actual service of compute or networking or storage. I mean, and for, for compute, even for compute, there's a ton of work to be done. [00:24:39] Bryan: And compute is by far, I would say the simplest of the, of the three. When you look at like networks, network services, storage services, there's a whole bunch of stuff that you need to go build in terms of distributed systems to actually offer that as a cloud. So it, I mean, it is painful at more or less every LE level if you are trying to deploy cloud computing on. What's a control plane? [00:25:00] Jeremy: And for someone who doesn't have experience building or working with this type of infrastructure, when you talk about a control plane, what, what does that do in the context of this system? [00:25:16] Bryan: So control plane is the thing that is, that is everything between your API request and that infrastructure actually being acted upon. So you go say, Hey, I, I want a provision, a vm. Okay, great. We've got a whole bunch of things we're gonna provision with that. We're gonna provision a vm, we're gonna get some storage that's gonna go along with that, that's got a network storage service that's gonna come out of, uh, we've got a virtual network that we're gonna either create or attach to. [00:25:39] Bryan: We've got a, a whole bunch of things we need to go do for that. For all of these things, there are metadata components that need, we need to keep track of this thing that, beyond the actual infrastructure that we create. And then we need to go actually, like act on the actual compute elements, the hostos, what have you, the switches, what have you, and actually go. [00:25:56] Bryan: Create these underlying things and then connect them. And there's of course, the challenge of just getting that working is a big challenge. Um, but getting that working robustly, getting that working is, you know, when you go to provision of vm, um, the, all the, the, the steps that need to happen and what happens if one of those steps fails along the way? [00:26:17] Bryan: What happens if, you know, one thing we're very mindful of is these kind of, you get these long tails of like, why, you know, generally our VM provisioning happened within this time, but we get these long tails where it takes much longer. What's going on? What, where in this process are we, are we actually spending time? [00:26:33] Bryan: Uh, and there's a whole lot of complexity that you need to go deal with that. There's a lot of complexity that you need to go deal with this effectively, this workflow that's gonna go create these things and manage them. Um, we use a, a pattern that we call, that are called sagas, actually is a, is a database pattern from the eighties. [00:26:51] Bryan: Uh, Katie McCaffrey is a, is a database reCrcher who, who, uh, I, I think, uh, reintroduce the idea of, of sagas, um, in the last kind of decade. Um, and this is something that we picked up, um, and I've done a lot of really interesting things with, um, to allow for, to this kind of, these workflows to be, to be managed and done so robustly in a way that you can restart them and so on. [00:27:16] Bryan: Uh, and then you guys, you get this whole distributed system that can do all this. That whole distributed system, that itself needs to be reliable and available. So if you, you know, you need to be able to, what happens if you, if you pull a sled or if a sled fails, how does the system deal with that? [00:27:33] Bryan: How does the system deal with getting an another sled added to the system? Like how do you actually grow this distributed system? And then how do you update it? How do you actually go from one version to the next? And all of that has to happen across an air gap where this is gonna run as part of the computer. [00:27:49] Bryan: So there are, it, it is fractally complicated. There, there is a lot of complexity here in, in software, in the software system and all of that. We kind of, we call the control plane. Um, and it, this is the what exists at AWS at GCP, at Azure. When you are hitting an endpoint that's provisioning an EC2 instance for you. [00:28:10] Bryan: There is an AWS control plane that is, is doing all of this and has, uh, some of these similar aspects and certainly some of these similar challenges. Are vSphere / Proxmox / Hyper-V in the same category? [00:28:20] Jeremy: And for people who have run their own servers with something like say VMware or Hyper V or Proxmox, are those in the same category? [00:28:32] Bryan: Yeah, I mean a little bit. I mean, it kind of like vSphere Yes. Via VMware. No. So it's like you, uh, VMware ESX is, is kind of a key building block upon which you can build something that is a more meaningful distributed system. When it's just like a machine that you're provisioning VMs on, it's like, okay, well that's actually, you as the human might be the control plane. [00:28:52] Bryan: Like, that's, that, that's, that's a much easier problem. Um, but when you've got, you know, tens, hundreds, thousands of machines, you need to do it robustly. You need something to coordinate that activity and you know, you need to pick which sled you land on. You need to be able to move these things. You need to be able to update that whole system. [00:29:06] Bryan: That's when you're getting into a control plane. So, you know, some of these things have kind of edged into a control plane, certainly VMware. Um, now Broadcom, um, has delivered something that's kind of cloudish. Um, I think that for folks that are truly born on the cloud, it, it still feels somewhat, uh, like you're going backwards in time when you, when you look at these kind of on-prem offerings. [00:29:29] Bryan: Um, but, but it, it, it's got these aspects to it for sure. Um, and I think that we're, um, some of these other things when you're just looking at KVM or just looks looking at Proxmox you kind of need to, to connect it to other broader things to turn it into something that really looks like manageable infrastructure. [00:29:47] Bryan: And then many of those projects are really, they're either proprietary projects, uh, proprietary products like vSphere, um, or you are really dealing with open source projects that are. Not necessarily aimed at the same level of scale. Um, you know, you look at a, again, Proxmox or, uh, um, you'll get an OpenStack. [00:30:05] Bryan: Um, and you know, OpenStack is just a lot of things, right? I mean, OpenStack has got so many, the OpenStack was kind of a, a free for all, for every infrastructure vendor. Um, and I, you know, there was a time people were like, don't you, aren't you worried about all these companies together that, you know, are coming together for OpenStack? [00:30:24] Bryan: I'm like, haven't you ever worked for like a company? Like, companies don't get along. By the way, it's like having multiple companies work together on a thing that's bad news, not good news. And I think, you know, one of the things that OpenStack has definitely struggled with, kind of with what, actually the, the, there's so many different kind of vendor elements in there that it's, it's very much not a product, it's a project that you're trying to run. [00:30:47] Bryan: But that's, but that very much is in, I mean, that's, that's similar certainly in spirit. [00:30:53] Jeremy: And so I think this is kind of like you're alluding to earlier, the piece that allows you to allocate, compute, storage, manage networking, gives you that experience of I can go to a web console or I can use an API and I can spin up machines, get them all connected. At the end of the day, the control plane. Is allowing you to do that in hopefully a user-friendly way. [00:31:21] Bryan: That's right. Yep. And in the, I mean, in order to do that in a modern way, it's not just like a user-friendly way. You really need to have a CLI and a web UI and an API. Those all need to be drawn from the same kind of single ground truth. Like you don't wanna have any of those be an afterthought for the other. [00:31:39] Bryan: You wanna have the same way of generating all of those different endpoints and, and entries into the system. Building a control plane now has better tools (Rust, CockroachDB) [00:31:46] Jeremy: And if you take your time at Joyent as an example. What kind of tools existed for that versus how much did you have to build in-house for as far as the hypervisor and managing the compute and all that? [00:32:02] Bryan: Yeah, so we built more or less everything in house. I mean, what you have is, um, and I think, you know, over time we've gotten slightly better tools. Um, I think, and, and maybe it's a little bit easier to talk about the, kind of the tools we started at Oxide because we kind of started with a, with a clean sheet of paper at oxide. [00:32:16] Bryan: We wanted to, knew we wanted to go build a control plane, but we were able to kind of go revisit some of the components. So actually, and maybe I'll, I'll talk about some of those changes. So when we, at, For example, at Joyent, when we were building a cloud at Joyent, there wasn't really a good distributed database. [00:32:34] Bryan: Um, so we were using Postgres as our database for metadata and there were a lot of challenges. And Postgres is not a distributed database. It's running. With a primary secondary architecture, and there's a bunch of issues there, many of which we discovered the hard way. Um, when we were coming to oxide, you have much better options to pick from in terms of distributed databases. [00:32:57] Bryan: You know, we, there was a period that now seems maybe potentially brief in hindsight, but of a really high quality open source distributed databases. So there were really some good ones to, to pick from. Um, we, we built on CockroachDB on CRDB. Um, so that was a really important component. That we had at oxide that we didn't have at Joyent. [00:33:19] Bryan: Um, so we were, I wouldn't say we were rolling our own distributed database, we were just using Postgres and uh, and, and dealing with an enormous amount of pain there in terms of the surround. Um, on top of that, and, and, you know, a, a control plane is much more than a database, obviously. Uh, and you've gotta deal with, uh, there's a whole bunch of software that you need to go, right. [00:33:40] Bryan: Um, to be able to, to transform these kind of API requests into something that is reliable infrastructure, right? And there, there's a lot to that. Uh, especially when networking gets in the mix, when storage gets in the mix, uh, there are a whole bunch of like complicated steps that need to be done, um, at Joyent. [00:33:59] Bryan: Um, we, in part because of the history of the company and like, look. This, this just is not gonna sound good, but it just is what it is and I'm just gonna own it. We did it all in Node, um, at Joyent, which I, I, I know it sounds really right now, just sounds like, well, you, you built it with Tinker Toys. You Okay. [00:34:18] Bryan: Uh, did, did you think it was, you built the skyscraper with Tinker Toys? Uh, it's like, well, okay. We actually, we had greater aspirations for the Tinker Toys once upon a time, and it was better than, you know, than Twisted Python and Event Machine from Ruby, and we weren't gonna do it in Java. All right. [00:34:32] Bryan: So, but let's just say that that experiment, uh, that experiment did ultimately end in a predictable fashion. Um, and, uh, we, we decided that maybe Node was not gonna be the best decision long term. Um, Joyent was the company behind node js. Uh, back in the day, Ryan Dahl worked for Joyent. Uh, and then, uh, then we, we, we. [00:34:53] Bryan: Uh, landed that in a foundation in about, uh, what, 2015, something like that. Um, and began to consider our world beyond, uh, beyond Node. Rust at Oxide [00:35:04] Bryan: A big tool that we had in the arsenal when we started Oxide is Rust. Um, and so indeed the name of the company is, is a tip of the hat to the language that we were pretty sure we were gonna be building a lot of stuff in. [00:35:16] Bryan: Namely Rust. And, uh, rust is, uh, has been huge for us, a very important revolution in programming languages. you know, there, there, there have been different people kind of coming in at different times and I kinda came to Rust in what I, I think is like this big kind of second expansion of rust in 2018 when a lot of technologists were think, uh, sick of Node and also sick of Go. [00:35:43] Bryan: And, uh, also sick of C++. And wondering is there gonna be something that gives me the, the, the performance, of that I get outta C. The, the robustness that I can get out of a C program but is is often difficult to achieve. but can I get that with kind of some, some of the velocity of development, although I hate that term, some of the speed of development that you get out of a more interpreted language. [00:36:08] Bryan: Um, and then by the way, can I actually have types, I think types would be a good idea? Uh, and rust obviously hits the sweet spot of all of that. Um, it has been absolutely huge for us. I mean, we knew when we started the company again, oxide, uh, we were gonna be using rust in, in quite a, quite a. Few places, but we weren't doing it by fiat. [00:36:27] Bryan: Um, we wanted to actually make sure we're making the right decision, um, at, at every different, at every layer. Uh, I think what has been surprising is the sheer number of layers at which we use rust in terms of, we've done our own embedded firmware in rust. We've done, um, in, in the host operating system, which is still largely in C, but very big components are in rust. [00:36:47] Bryan: The hypervisor Propolis is all in rust. Uh, and then of course the control plane, that distributed system on that is all in rust. So that was a very important thing that we very much did not need to build ourselves. We were able to really leverage, uh, a terrific community. Um. We were able to use, uh, and we've done this at Joyent as well, but at Oxide, we've used Illumos as a hostos component, which, uh, our variant is called Helios. [00:37:11] Bryan: Um, we've used, uh, bhyve um, as a, as as that kind of internal hypervisor component. we've made use of a bunch of different open source components to build this thing, um, which has been really, really important for us. Uh, and open source components that didn't exist even like five years prior. [00:37:28] Bryan: That's part of why we felt that 2019 was the right time to start the company. And so we started Oxide. The problems building a control plane in Node [00:37:34] Jeremy: You had mentioned that at Joyent, you had tried to build this in, in Node. What were the, what were the, the issues or the, the challenges that you had doing that? [00:37:46] Bryan: Oh boy. Yeah. again, we, I kind of had higher hopes in 2010, I would say. When we, we set on this, um, the, the, the problem that we had just writ large, um. JavaScript is really designed to allow as many people on earth to write a program as possible, which is good. I mean, I, I, that's a, that's a laudable goal. [00:38:09] Bryan: That is the goal ultimately of such as it is of JavaScript. It's actually hard to know what the goal of JavaScript is, unfortunately, because Brendan Ike never actually wrote a book. so that there is not a canonical, you've got kind of Doug Crockford and other people who've written things on JavaScript, but it's hard to know kind of what the original intent of JavaScript is. [00:38:27] Bryan: The name doesn't even express original intent, right? It was called Live Script, and it was kind of renamed to JavaScript during the Java Frenzy of the late nineties. A name that makes no sense. There is no Java in JavaScript. that is kind of, I think, revealing to kind of the, uh, the unprincipled mess that is JavaScript. [00:38:47] Bryan: It, it, it's very pragmatic at some level, um, and allows anyone to, it makes it very easy to write software. The problem is it's much more difficult to write really rigorous software. So, uh, and this is what I should differentiate JavaScript from TypeScript. This is really what TypeScript is trying to solve. [00:39:07] Bryan: TypeScript is like. How can, I think TypeScript is a, is a great step forward because TypeScript is like, how can we bring some rigor to this? Like, yes, it's great that it's easy to write JavaScript, but that's not, we, we don't wanna do that for Absolutely. I mean that, that's not the only problem we solve. [00:39:23] Bryan: We actually wanna be able to write rigorous software and it's actually okay if it's a little harder to write rigorous software that's actually okay if it gets leads to, to more rigorous artifacts. Um, but in JavaScript, I mean, just a concrete example. You know, there's nothing to prevent you from referencing a property that doesn't actually exist in JavaScript. [00:39:43] Bryan: So if you fat finger a property name, you are relying on something to tell you. By the way, I think you've misspelled this because there is no type definition for this thing. And I don't know that you've got one that's spelled correctly, one that's spelled incorrectly, that's often undefined. And then the, when you actually go, you say you've got this typo that is lurking in your what you want to be rigorous software. [00:40:07] Bryan: And if you don't execute that code, like you won't know that's there. And then you do execute that code. And now you've got a, you've got an undefined object. And now that's either gonna be an exception or it can, again, depends on how that's handled. It can be really difficult to determine the origin of that, of, of that error, of that programming. [00:40:26] Bryan: And that is a programmer error. And one of the big challenges that we had with Node is that programmer errors and operational errors, like, you know, I'm out of disk space as an operational error. Those get conflated and it becomes really hard. And in fact, I think the, the language wanted to make it easier to just kind of, uh, drive on in the event of all errors. [00:40:53] Bryan: And it's like, actually not what you wanna do if you're trying to build a reliable, robust system. So we had. No end of issues. [00:41:01] Bryan: We've got a lot of experience developing rigorous systems, um, again coming out of operating systems development and so on. And we want, we brought some of that rigor, if strangely, to JavaScript. So one of the things that we did is we brought a lot of postmortem, diagnos ability and observability to node. [00:41:18] Bryan: And so if, if one of our node processes. Died in production, we would actually get a core dump from that process, a core dump that we could actually meaningfully process. So we did a bunch of kind of wild stuff. I mean, actually wild stuff where we could actually make sense of the JavaScript objects in a binary core dump. JavaScript values ease of getting started over robustness [00:41:41] Bryan: Um, and things that we thought were really important, and this is the, the rest of the world just looks at this being like, what the hell is this? I mean, it's so out of step with it. The problem is that we were trying to bridge two disconnected cultures of one developing really. Rigorous software and really designing it for production, diagnosability and the other, really designing it to software to run in the browser and for anyone to be able to like, you know, kind of liven up a webpage, right? [00:42:10] Bryan: Is kinda the origin of, of live script and then JavaScript. And we were kind of the only ones sitting at the intersection of that. And you begin when you are the only ones sitting at that kind of intersection. You just are, you're, you're kind of fighting a community all the time. And we just realized that we are, there were so many things that the community wanted to do that we felt are like, no, no, this is gonna make software less diagnosable. It's gonna make it less robust. The NodeJS split and why people left [00:42:36] Bryan: And then you realize like, I'm, we're the only voice in the room because we have got, we have got desires for this language that it doesn't have for itself. And this is when you realize you're in a bad relationship with software. It's time to actually move on. And in fact, actually several years after, we'd already kind of broken up with node. [00:42:55] Bryan: Um, and it was like, it was a bit of an acrimonious breakup. there was a, uh, famous slash infamous fork of node called IoJS Um, and this was viewed because people, the community, thought that Joyent was being what was not being an appropriate steward of node js and was, uh, not allowing more things to come into to, to node. [00:43:19] Bryan: And of course, the reason that we of course, felt that we were being a careful steward and we were actively resisting those things that would cut against its fitness for a production system. But it's some way the community saw it and they, and forked, um, and, and I think the, we knew before the fork that's like, this is not working and we need to get this thing out of our hands. Platform is a reflection of values node summit talk [00:43:43] Bryan: And we're are the wrong hands for this? This needs to be in a foundation. Uh, and so we kind of gone through that breakup, uh, and maybe it was two years after that. That, uh, friend of mine who was um, was running the, uh, the node summit was actually, it's unfortunately now passed away. Charles er, um, but Charles' venture capitalist great guy, and Charles was running Node Summit and came to me in 2017. [00:44:07] Bryan: He is like, I really want you to keynote Node Summit. And I'm like, Charles, I'm not gonna do that. I've got nothing nice to say. Like, this is the, the, you don't want, I'm the last person you wanna keynote. He's like, oh, if you have nothing nice to say, you should definitely keynote. You're like, oh God, okay, here we go. [00:44:22] Bryan: He's like, no, I really want you to talk about, like, you should talk about the Joyent breakup with NodeJS. I'm like, oh man. [00:44:29] Bryan: And that led to a talk that I'm really happy that I gave, 'cause it was a very important talk for me personally. Uh, called Platform is a reflection of values and really looking at the values that we had for Node and the values that Node had for itself. And they didn't line up. [00:44:49] Bryan: And the problem is that the values that Node had for itself and the values that we had for Node are all kind of positives, right? Like there's nobody in the node community who's like, I don't want rigor, I hate rigor. It's just that if they had the choose between rigor and making the language approachable. [00:45:09] Bryan: They would choose approachability every single time. They would never choose rigor. And, you know, that was a, that was a big eye-opener. I do, I would say, if you watch this talk. [00:45:20] Bryan: because I knew that there's, like, the audience was gonna be filled with, with people who, had been a part of the fork in 2014, I think was the, the, the, the fork, the IOJS fork. And I knew that there, there were, there were some, you know, some people that were, um, had been there for the fork and. [00:45:41] Bryan: I said a little bit of a trap for the audience. But the, and the trap, I said, you know what, I, I kind of talked about the values that we had and the aspirations we had for Node, the aspirations that Node had for itself and how they were different. [00:45:53] Bryan: And, you know, and I'm like, look in, in, in hindsight, like a fracture was inevitable. And in 2014 there was finally a fracture. And do people know what happened in 2014? And if you, if you, you could listen to that talk, everyone almost says in unison, like IOJS. I'm like, oh right. IOJS. Right. That's actually not what I was thinking of. [00:46:19] Bryan: And I go to the next slide and is a tweet from a guy named TJ Holloway, Chuck, who was the most prolific contributor to Node. And it was his tweet also in 2014 before the fork, before the IOJS fork explaining that he was leaving Node and that he was going to go. And you, if you turn the volume all the way up, you can hear the audience gasp. [00:46:41] Bryan: And it's just delicious because the community had never really come, had never really confronted why TJ left. Um, there. And I went through a couple folks, Felix, bunch of other folks, early Node folks. That were there in 2010, were leaving in 2014, and they were going to go primarily, and they were going to go because they were sick of the same things that we were sick of. [00:47:09] Bryan: They, they, they had hit the same things that we had hit and they were frustrated. I I really do believe this, that platforms do reflect their own values. And when you are making a software decision, you are selecting value. [00:47:26] Bryan: You should select values that align with the values that you have for that software. That is, those are, that's way more important than other things that people look at. I think people look at, for example, quote unquote community size way too frequently, community size is like. Eh, maybe it can be fine. [00:47:44] Bryan: I've been in very large communities, node. I've been in super small open source communities like AUMs and RAs, a bunch of others. there are strengths and weaknesses to both approaches just as like there's a strength to being in a big city versus a small town. Me personally, I'll take the small community more or less every time because the small community is almost always self-selecting based on values and just for the same reason that I like working at small companies or small teams. [00:48:11] Bryan: There's a lot of value to be had in a small community. It's not to say that large communities are valueless, but again, long answer to your question of kind of where did things go south with Joyent and node. They went south because the, the values that we had and the values the community had didn't line up and that was a very educational experience, as you might imagine. [00:48:33] Jeremy: Yeah. And, and given that you mentioned how, because of those values, some people moved from Node to go, and in the end for much of what oxide is building. You ended up using rust. What, what would you say are the, the values of go and and rust, and how did you end up choosing Rust given that. Go's decisions regarding generics, versioning, compilation speed priority [00:48:56] Bryan: Yeah, I mean, well, so the value for, yeah. And so go, I mean, I understand why people move from Node to Go, go to me was kind of a lateral move. Um, there were a bunch of things that I, uh, go was still garbage collected, um, which I didn't like. Um, go also is very strange in terms of there are these kind of like. [00:49:17] Bryan: These autocratic kind of decisions that are very bizarre. Um, there, I mean, generics is kind of a famous one, right? Where go kind of as a point of principle didn't have generics, even though go itself actually the innards of go did have generics. It's just that you a go user weren't allowed to have them. [00:49:35] Bryan: And you know, it's kind of, there was, there was an old cartoon years and years ago about like when a, when a technologist is telling you that something is technically impossible, that actually means I don't feel like it. Uh, and there was a certain degree of like, generics are technically impossible and go, it's like, Hey, actually there are. [00:49:51] Bryan: And so there was, and I just think that the arguments against generics were kind of disingenuous. Um, and indeed, like they ended up adopting generics and then there's like some super weird stuff around like, they're very anti-assertion, which is like, what, how are you? Why are you, how is someone against assertions, it doesn't even make any sense, but it's like, oh, nope. [00:50:10] Bryan: Okay. There's a whole scree on it. Nope, we're against assertions and the, you know, against versioning. There was another thing like, you know, the Rob Pike has kind of famously been like, you should always just run on the way to commit. And you're like, does that, is that, does that make sense? I mean this, we actually built it. [00:50:26] Bryan: And so there are a bunch of things like that. You're just like, okay, this is just exhausting and. I mean, there's some things about Go that are great and, uh, plenty of other things that I just, I'm not a fan of. Um, I think that the, in the end, like Go cares a lot about like compile time. It's super important for Go Right? [00:50:44] Bryan: Is very quick, compile time. I'm like, okay. But that's like compile time is not like, it's not unimportant, it's doesn't have zero importance. But I've got other things that are like lots more important than that. Um, what I really care about is I want a high performing artifact. I wanted garbage collection outta my life. Don't think garbage collection has good trade offs [00:51:00] Bryan: I, I gotta tell you, I, I like garbage collection to me is an embodiment of this like, larger problem of where do you put cognitive load in the software development process. And what garbage collection is saying to me it is right for plenty of other people and the software that they wanna develop. [00:51:21] Bryan: But for me and the software that I wanna develop, infrastructure software, I don't want garbage collection because I can solve the memory allocation problem. I know when I'm like, done with something or not. I mean, it's like I, whether that's in, in C with, I mean it's actually like, it's really not that hard to not leak memory in, in a C base system. [00:51:44] Bryan: And you can. give yourself a lot of tooling that allows you to diagnose where memory leaks are coming from. So it's like that is a solvable problem. There are other challenges with that, but like, when you are developing a really sophisticated system that has garbage collection is using garbage collection. [00:51:59] Bryan: You spend as much time trying to dork with the garbage collector to convince it to collect the thing that you know is garbage. You are like, I've got this thing. I know it's garbage. Now I need to use these like tips and tricks to get the garbage collector. I mean, it's like, it feels like every Java performance issue goes to like minus xx call and use the other garbage collector, whatever one you're using, use a different one and using a different, a different approach. [00:52:23] Bryan: It's like, so you're, you're in this, to me, it's like you're in the worst of all worlds where. the reason that garbage collection is helpful is because the programmer doesn't have to think at all about this problem. But now you're actually dealing with these long pauses in production. [00:52:38] Bryan: You're dealing with all these other issues where actually you need to think a lot about it. And it's kind of, it, it it's witchcraft. It, it, it's this black box that you can't see into. So it's like, what problem have we solved exactly? And I mean, so the fact that go had garbage collection, it's like, eh, no, I, I do not want, like, and then you get all the other like weird fatwahs and you know, everything else. [00:52:57] Bryan: I'm like, no, thank you. Go is a no thank you for me, I, I get it why people like it or use it, but it's, it's just, that was not gonna be it. Choosing Rust [00:53:04] Bryan: I'm like, I want C. but I, there are things I didn't like about C too. I was looking for something that was gonna give me the deterministic kind of artifact that I got outta C. But I wanted library support and C is tough because there's, it's all convention. you know, there's just a bunch of other things that are just thorny. And I remember thinking vividly in 2018, I'm like, well, it's rust or bust. Ownership model, algebraic types, error handling [00:53:28] Bryan: I'm gonna go into rust. And, uh, I hope I like it because if it's not this, it's gonna like, I'm gonna go back to C I'm like literally trying to figure out what the language is for the back half of my career. Um, and when I, you know, did what a lot of people were doing at that time and people have been doing since of, you know, really getting into rust and really learning it, appreciating the difference in the, the model for sure, the ownership model people talk about. [00:53:54] Bryan: That's also obviously very important. It was the error handling that blew me away. And the idea of like algebraic types, I never really had algebraic types. Um, and the ability to, to have. And for error handling is one of these really, uh, you, you really appreciate these things where it's like, how do you deal with a, with a function that can either succeed and return something or it can fail, and the way c deals with that is bad with these kind of sentinels for errors. [00:54:27] Bryan: And, you know, does negative one mean success? Does negative one mean failure? Does zero mean failure? Some C functions, zero means failure. Traditionally in Unix, zero means success. And like, what if you wanna return a file descriptor, you know, it's like, oh. And then it's like, okay, then it'll be like zero through positive N will be a valid result. [00:54:44] Bryan: Negative numbers will be, and like, was it negative one and I said airo, or is it a negative number that did not, I mean, it's like, and that's all convention, right? People do all, all those different things and it's all convention and it's easy to get wrong, easy to have bugs, can't be statically checked and so on. Um, and then what Go says is like, well, you're gonna have like two return values and then you're gonna have to like, just like constantly check all of these all the time. Um, which is also kind of gross. Um, JavaScript is like, Hey, let's toss an exception. If, if we don't like something, if we see an error, we'll, we'll throw an exception. [00:55:15] Bryan: There are a bunch of reasons I don't like that. Um, and you look, you'll get what Rust does, where it's like, no, no, no. We're gonna have these algebra types, which is to say this thing can be a this thing or that thing, but it, but it has to be one of these. And by the way, you don't get to process this thing until you conditionally match on one of these things. [00:55:35] Bryan: You're gonna have to have a, a pattern match on this thing to determine if it's a this or a that, and if it in, in the result type that you, the result is a generic where it's like, it's gonna be either the thing that you wanna return. It's gonna be an okay that contains the thing you wanna return, or it's gonna be an error that contains your error and it forces your code to deal with that. [00:55:57] Bryan: And what that does is it shifts the cognitive load from the person that is operating this thing in production to the, the actual developer that is in development. And I think that that, that to me is like, I, I love that shift. Um, and that shift to me is really important. Um, and that's what I was missing, that that's what Rust gives you. [00:56:23] Bryan: Rust forces you to think about your code as you write it, but as a result, you have an artifact that is much more supportable, much more sustainable, and much faster. Prefer to frontload cognitive load during development instead of at runtime [00:56:34] Jeremy: Yeah, it sounds like you would rather take the time during the development to think about these issues because whether it's garbage collection or it's error handling at runtime when you're trying to solve a problem, then it's much more difficult than having dealt with it to start with. [00:56:57] Bryan: Yeah, absolutely. I, and I just think that like, why also, like if it's software, if it's, again, if it's infrastructure software, I mean the kinda the question that you, you should have when you're writing software is how long is this software gonna live? How many people are gonna use this software? Uh, and if you are writing an operating system, the answer for this thing that you're gonna write, it's gonna live for a long time. [00:57:18] Bryan: Like, if we just look at plenty of aspects of the system that have been around for a, for decades, it's gonna live for a long time and many, many, many people are gonna use it. Why would we not expect people writing that software to have more cognitive load when they're writing it to give us something that's gonna be a better artifact? [00:57:38] Bryan: Now conversely, you're like, Hey, I kind of don't care about this. And like, I don't know, I'm just like, I wanna see if this whole thing works. I've got, I like, I'm just stringing this together. I don't like, no, the software like will be lucky if it survives until tonight, but then like, who cares? Yeah. Yeah. [00:57:52] Bryan: Gar garbage clock. You know, if you're prototyping something, whatever. And this is why you really do get like, you know, different choices, different technology choices, depending on the way that you wanna solve the problem at hand. And for the software that I wanna write, I do like that cognitive load that is upfront. With LLMs maybe you can get the benefit of the robust artifact with less cognitive load [00:58:10] Bryan: Um, and although I think, I think the thing that is really wild that is the twist that I don't think anyone really saw coming is that in a, in an LLM age. That like the cognitive load upfront almost needs an asterisk on it because so much of that can be assisted by an LLM. And now, I mean, I would like to believe, and maybe this is me being optimistic, that the the, in the LLM age, we will see, I mean, rust is a great fit for the LLMH because the LLM itself can get a lot of feedback about whether the software that's written is correct or not. [00:58:44] Bryan: Much more so than you can for other environments. [00:58:48] Jeremy: Yeah, that is a interesting point in that I think when people first started trying out the LLMs to code, it was really good at these maybe looser languages like Python or JavaScript, and initially wasn't so good at something like Rust. But it sounds like as that improves, if. It can write it then because of the rigor or the memory management or the error handling that the language is forcing you to do, it might actually end up being a better choice for people using LLMs. [00:59:27] Bryan: absolutely. I, it, it gives you more certainty in the artifact that you've delivered. I mean, you know a lot about a Rust program that compiles correctly. I mean, th there are certain classes of errors that you don't have, um, that you actually don't know on a C program or a GO program or a, a JavaScript program. [00:59:46] Bryan: I think that's gonna be really important. I think we are on the cusp. Maybe we've already seen it, this kind of great bifurcation in the software that we writ

It was time for a little trip again. I went to Munich to the three-day FPGA conference of PLC2 and the Vogel Verlag. * FPGA Conference the biggest event in Europe * Some facts * 3 days * 430 Participants * 128 Lectures * 110 Speakers * 39 Exhibitors * This year triple anniversary * 40 years FPGA * 30 years PLC2 * 10 years FPGA Conference * All my visited talks * Welcome to the Post-European Cyber Resilience Act (CRA) Era * FPGAs and the Cyber Resilience Act * Cyber Resilience Act: Planning your Security Future * Making Simple FPGA Testbenches – Utilising Important Quality Measures * A Cuckoo Hash-Based CAM Architecture for FPGA and ASIC Implementations * Elevate your Design: Security and Power Efficiency with AMD Spartan UltraScale+ FPGAs * Faster Change of Probe Signals using the Vivado Logic Analyzer * Warning! Your FPGAs & SoC FPGAs are Under Attack * Functional Safety for Hardware and Software * Security, Regulations and FPGA-Based Systems – How to Make Your System Secure * Verify the Bits that Fly : A Demonstration of Bitstream to HDL Equivalence Checking * Why VUnit? * Managing and Versioning Gateware Source Code on Git with Hog * A Baseboard Management Controller for FPGA/SoC Board Supervision and Faster Bringup * GateMate FPGA: Qualification for Radiation-Tolerant Applications * GateMate FPGA: High-Speed Transceiver (SerDes) Hands-On * Project-Based and Non-Project-Based Scripting in Vivado * Multi-Run Management Using Vivado * How to Drive Parallel High-Speed Circuits from an AMD FPGA Next FPGA conference is from 30 June - 2 July 2026 And for now come into our Newsletter and also follow us on LinkedIn. The post WFP030 – FPGA Conference 2025 appeared first on World of FPGA by David Kirchner.

The Rise of Micro-Containers: When Less is MorePodcast Episode NotesOpening (0:00 - 0:40)Introduction to micro-containers: containers under 100KBContrast with typical Python containers (5GB+)Languages enabling micro-containers: Rust, Zig, GoZig Code Example (0:40 - 1:10)// 16KB HTTP server exampleconst std = @import("std");pub fn main() !void { var server = try std.net.StreamServer.init(.{}); defer server.deinit(); try server.listen(try std.net.Address.parseIp("0.0.0.0", 8080)); while (true) { const conn = try server.accept(); try handleRequest(conn); }}Key Use Cases Discussed (1:10 - 5:55)1. Edge IoT (1:14)ESP32 with 4MB flash constraintsTemperature sensor example: 60KB total with MQTTA/B firmware updates within 2MB limit2. WASM Integration (2:37)Millisecond-loading micro-frontendsComponent isolation per containerZero initialization overhead for routing3. Serverless Performance (3:11)Traditional: 300ms cold startMicro-container: 50ms startDirect memory mapping benefits4. Security Benefits (3:38)No shell = no injection surfaceSingle binary audit scopeZero trust architecture approach5. Embedded Linux (3:58)Raspberry Pi (512MB RAM) use case50+ concurrent services under 50KB eachHome automation applications6. CI/CD Improvements (4:19)Base image: 300MB → 20KB10-15x faster pipelinesReduced bandwidth costs7. Mesh Networks (4:40)P2P container distributionMinimal bandwidth requirementsResilient to network partitions8. FPGA Integration (5:05)Bitstream wrapper containersAlgorithm switching efficiencyHardware-software bridge9. Unikernel Comparison (5:30)Container vs specialized OSSecurity model differencesPerformance considerations10. Cost Analysis (5:41)Lambda container: 140MB vs 50KB2800x storage reductionCold start cost implicationsClosing Thoughts (6:06 - 7:21)Historical context: Solaris containers in 2000sNew paradigm: thinking in kilobytesScratch container benefitsFuture of minimal containerizationTechnical Implementation Note// Example of stripped Zig binary for scratch containerconst builtin = @import("builtin");pub fn main() void { // No stdlib import needed asm volatile ("syscall" :: [syscall] "{rax}" (1), // write [fd] "{rdi}" (1), // stdout [buf] "{rsi}" ("okn"), [count] "{rdx}" (3) );}Episode Duration: 7:21

Original text by David Pogue, Macworld May 1994. Products mentioned in this article: Interplay's “Star Trek: 25th Anniversary” adventure game download, CD-ROM download with voice acting, complete playthrough on YouTube. David Landis' Stak Trek episode guide HyperCard stacks. David Pogue interviewed Mark Okrand, creator of Klingon and other conlangs, for the Unsung Science podcast. Sound Source Interactive's audio clip collection. Bitstream Star Trek Font Packs and AkBKukU on the legality of Bitstream's copying of typefaces. Star Trek Omnipedia CD-ROM and updated edition. A little about Phil Farrand, author of the Nitpicker's Guides and the Finale scorewriting software for the Macintosh. David Pogue/Phil Farrand interface design story from the 2005 Mac OS X Conference.

Dave Harding and Mike Schmidt are joined by Bastien Teinturier and Robin Linus to discuss Newsletter #278. News Offers-compatible LN addresses (1:20) Changes to services and client software BitMask Wallet 0.6.3 released (17:42) Opcode documentation website announced (20:08) Athena Bitcoin adds Lightning support (21:42) Blixt v0.6.9 released (22:22) Durabit whitepaper announced (23:07) BitStream whitepaper announced (25:01) BitVM proof of concepts (42:33) Bitkit adds taproot send support (55:17) Releases and release candidates LND v0.17.2-beta (55:53) Bitcoin Core 26.0rc2 (56:34) Core Lightning 23.11rc3 (57:37) Notable code and documentation changes Core Lightning #6857 (58:45) Eclair #2752 (59:42)

开播八年之际，我们隆重邀请中文字体设计的前辈大师，柯炽坚先生，与听众分享四十载职业生涯的心路历程、作品积淀及技术变迁。 同时，柯老师也将为我们介绍酝酿已久的新作——「铁宋」项目的背景、细节和创新。 参考链接 地铁宋体，也称地铁宋、港铁宋 导示（wayfinding） 蒙纳公司（Monotype Imaging） 写研（Shaken） Ikarus，URW 及 Brendel Informatik 开发的字体设计及开发软件 Macintosh Plus The Seybold Report，跨学科的研究期刊 Fontographer AsiaFont Studio（原名 FontLab Composer），CJK 字体设计软件；其功能后被纳入 FontLab Studio 5.1 版 Glyphs FontLab 8 铁宋，基于香港地铁导示系统字体复刻，柯炽坚主创设计 Rex 于 2011 年访谈柯炽坚，《信黑体与〈失控〉单行本：设计师柯炽坚访谈》，刊于 The Type 信黑体，柯炽坚主创设计的黑体家族 华康俪宋 香港增补字符集 铁宋目前已开启预售 嘉宾 柯炽坚（Sammy Or）：字体设计师，设计教育者 1980 年，加入香港地下铁路公司，担任导向指示系统设计师一职；参与了为导向指示系统特别设计的地铁宋体。后转职蒙纳（香港）公司，出任字体经理兼首席中文字体设计师。1989 年，创立 TTL 字体科技有限公司，研发中文矢量轮廓字体；设计了以俪宋、俪黑为代表的三十余款「俪」系列字体。1992 年，受聘于台湾华康科技公司，担任副总裁兼任字体设计总监。后于美国 Bitstream 字体科技公司担任中、日、韩文字体设计顾问。2008 年，创立域思玛字体设计公司，开发信黑体系列。 曾于台湾实践大学任副教授，现为香港理工大学设计学院客座教授。 主播 Eric：字体排印研究者，译者，The Type 编辑 欢迎与我们交流或反馈，来信请致 podcast@thetype.com​。如果你喜爱本期节目，也欢迎用支付宝向我们捐赠：hello@thetype.com​。

David Berlow has been at the forefront of type design, publishing, and technology for 45 years. His impressive career began in 1978 drawing letterforms for the Haas, Mergenthaler, Linotype, and Stempel type foundries, before he went on to work at Apple, Bitstream, and later founded the Font Bureau with Roger Black.  A self-described “loose cannon” and “boat rocker,” Berlow has been at the center of type innovation for decades, consulting for companies like Apple and Google, all whilst designing some of the world's most celebrated and recognizable fonts, including custom designs for iconic publishers such as The New York Times Magazine, Newsweek, Esquire Magazine and The Wall Street Journal and brands including Apple Computer Inc., Google Inc. and Microsoft Corporation.  In this week's episode Tom Rickner, the Senior Director of the Studio at Monotype, sits down with Berlow. Fun fact: Berlow hired Rickner at the Font Bureau, kicking off his career as a type designer. You'll hear the two reminisce, talk shop, and explore Berlow's influences, predictions, and perspectives on mentorship and team building.   Read more about this episode and our past guests at monotype.com/podcast.   

In this episode episode we discuss Protonmail, lack of legal protection for privacy services, legal loopholes, and jurisdictional arbitrage. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF (also via lightning network) Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 NEAR: bitstream.near Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

Tom is back! Our thanks to Lee Overstreet for guest co-hosting last week. And there’s exciting news about new JVC projectors! 00:00:00 – Intro & Listeners of the Week Our Listeners of the Week are Chad for his PayPal donation, plus our 128 Patreon Patrons, as well as Jason S. for talking us up to SVS.We […] The post AV Rant #767: Bitstream vs. PCM appeared first on AV Rant .

In this episode we discuss cultural changes and contradictions in popular opinions which were formed over the last decade. We talk about cancel culture and the role of moderate views in the public discussion about social issues. Also, we reflect on the level of political and economic freedom around the world and how crypto-anarchism can minimize state and corporate power abuses. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF (also via lightning network) Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 NEAR: bitstream.near Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

TikTok als Karriere-Boost. Als aufstrebender DJ zog er kurz nach der Wende durch die boomende Berliner Underground-Technoszene und legte auf der ganzen Welt auf. Da ihm Techno auf Dauer aber zu eintönig wurde, produzierte er immer mehr Musik und gründete mit den Silbermond-Produzenten Ingo Politz und Bernd Wendlandt das Valicon Producer Forum. Andre „Brix“ Buchmann arbeitete für bekannte deutsche Popstars wie Tobias Regner oder die erste The Voice of Germany Gewinnerin Ivy Quainoo. Außerdem pickte er den ESC-Siegersong „Satellite“ von Lena Meyer-Landrut aus seinem umfangreichen Archiv, um ihn Stefan Raab, Universal Music & Co vorzustellen. So tauchte er in der Fernsehwelt auf, war Side Coach von The Voice of Germany Juror Samu Haber, Musikchef der gefloppten Pro Sieben Show „Die Band“ und immer wieder an den Songs der Castingshow-Teilnehmer*innen beteiligt. Aber die Tätigkeit als Produzent fühlte sich für ihn irgendwann wie Fließbandarbeit an. Brix drehte der Musikbranche den Rücken zu und gründete gemeinsam mit dem ehemaligen Managing Director von Warner Music Michael Brycz Bitstream Media Lab. Die Agentur vertritt Creator wie Falco Punch, Bartmann oder Michael Smolik und managt eine Reichweite von knapp 40 Millionen Follower. Im Redfield Podcast erklärt Brix was es für ihn und die Creator bedeutet, auf TikTok aktiv zu sein, wie Markenkooperationen zustande kommen und was großen Konzerne und kleine Indiebands von einer Social Media App wie TikTok mitnehmen können. Für ihn ist klar, dass Plattformen wie TikTok oder Twitch noch ein unglaubliches Wachstum hinlegen, aber auch irgendwann abgelöst werden. Er erklärt, warum er TikTok für „einen Segen für die Musikbranche“ hält und welche Chancen sich bieten, eigene Reichweiten unabhängig von Musikmedien aufzubauen. www.btstrm.com www.redfield-podcast.de

Neil Kendricks is a filmmaker, artist, photographer, writer, educator Kendricks earned a Master's degree in Television, Film and New Media from San Diego State University in 2006. His award-winning short films like 2002's Loop have screened at numerous international film festivals including the Palm Springs International Festival of Short Films, the Comic-Con International Independent Film Festival, the 2002 Havana Film Festival, and a special short-film screening at the 2003 Cannes Film Festival's American Pavilion. Kendricks' photography has also been exhibited at the San Diego Museum of Art, the African-American Museum of Fine Arts, London's Royal College of Art, and many other venues. His first solo photography exhibition, Bruised Eye Candy was shown at San Diego's now-defunct Spacecraft gallery in February 2008. Kendricks also produced, production designed and storyboarded media theorist Jordan Crandall's film, Heatseeking, which was shown at inSITE 2000 and exhibited in the Whitney Museum of American Art's BitStream exhibition, the first digital-arts exhibition shown at a major American art museum.

Security threats surround us. Several months ago, I signed up for a Liker account as a possible alternative to Facebook. In mid-March, Liker abruptly shut down because of a serious data breach. They say they'll be back when they've reworked their code to be more secure. Threats can come from anywhere. In Short Circuits: When it's time to replace a computer monitor, you might consider a television because you can get a larger screen for a lower price, but should you? • If you use an application that shows the temperature of your computer's CPU, you may wonder why there's so much fluctuation and why the various cores don't all report the same temperatures. If so, I have just the information you're seeking. In Spare Parts (only on the website): If you're considering a Windows S Mode computer, be sure that you understand the limitations, and if you have one of these computers, there's a way to remove the restrictions if you find them too limiting. • Buying Apple products you see on Instagram might be dangerous. Beware fakes and counterfeit devices. • Twenty years ago: Typefaces on websites were limited to about half a dozen that were present on all computers, but Bitstream was trying to change that.

We talk about non-compliance, why people are so compliant, and discuss a listener’s critique of the power episode. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 NEAR: bitstream.near Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

We talk about censorship, messengers, Scrit, Gemini protocol, the Cyberpunk Age, and asymmetric warfare. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 NEAR: bitstream.near Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

Bitstream and Clockwork founder, Chuck Hermes, talks about how saying “yes” to challenges helped him evolve from a musician, to a graphic designer for Prince, to a successful entrepreneur… and he takes a moment to geek out with Ivan over Kenji López-Alt.

In dieser Folge sprechen wir mit einer der spannendsten Persönlichkeiten aus der Influencer Branche, dem Gründer und Managing Director der Artist Management Agentur Bitstream Media, "Brix" Buchmann. Wir sprechen über: - Falco Punchs Anfänge und sein Erfolg auf TikTok - Ist Influencer Management ein spannendes Geschäftsmodell? - Was ist der Unterschied zwischen Influencer und Artist Management? - Worauf achtet Bitstream bei der Creator Auswahl? - Was macht aktuell den Reiz von TikTok aus? - und viele weitere interessante Themen! Gib uns Feedback! Wenn Dir der Podcast gefallen hat, du regelmäßig reinhörst, bitte ich dich, eine kurze Bewertung abzugeben, damit wir auch weiterhin so viel Zeit und Mühen in den Podcast investieren können. Hast Du weitere Ideen und Anregungen? Wer sollte unbedingt zu Gast sein? Welches Thema sollen wir ansprechen? Wir danken Dir für deine Zeit und wünschen eine geile Woche! All the best, Sven und Team Vibrand Connecte Dich mit uns: LinkedIn Vibrand Media Blog Instagram Twitter Facebook TikTok

We talk with Martin Leskovjan and Juraj Bednár about the roots of Parallel Polis, a socio-political concept created by Václav Benda in connection with Charter 77. Parallel Polis was about creating parallel societies during the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic. We also cover how it inspired and influenced the contemporary projects Paralelní Polis in Prague and Paralelna Polis in Bratislava in which Martin and Juraj are involved. What can we learn from the Parallel Polis concept for contemporary freedom movements? Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

We talk about power: What is power? Who has it? How does it work? Individual and organizational power. State vs. non-state actors. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

We talk about the future of security: future threats, technological empowerment, defence strategy in general, and example defence technology (anon comms, delay&disruption tolerant networking, long-range autonomous cargo drones, etc.). The is also a somewhat higher quality version of the MP3. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

We talk with Arto Bendiken about the political reactions to the ongoing pandemic and their long term effects on: Economy, free speech, mass gatherings, biodefense, cash, infection control, and identity. The is also a higher quality version of the MP3. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Show Notes Introduction 00:01:05 Two show participients verified they are either asymptomatic, or not infected. 00:02:55 Increase of pandemics in the future. SOURCE: Three seconds until midnight. Zoonotic transmissions. Avian flu pandemic (30% death rate). Increased air travel, population density. 00:06:14 MERS, SARS, swine flu, Ebola in the last 15-20 years. (It’s not the “once in a 100 years” frequency, or “three pandemics a century”) Wolfe, Nathan (2011): The Viral Storm: The Dawn of a New Pandemic Age Various books from Laurie Garrett 00:07:32 Death Rates will increase because of age of poulation. immune system gets faster with age, but overreaction is also more likely (cytokine storm) exporsure rates are higher (travel) Political Reactions 00:09:14 Don’t test, don’t tell “The disaster that befell the citizens of Wuhan and so many other cities throughout China is not primarily a virus. The disaster is having a political regime that cares more about short-term public and economic concerns than it cares about saving the lives of its citizens.” smuggler: matches most reactions in the West. Frank: in politics, it means that any candidate cannot win against the pandemic, and their opponents can always say afterwards “we could have done better”. So, the US solution for Trump might be to let it burn as quick as possible through the population, and be over and done with it before the elections. Maximizing Re-Election is key. smuggler: “Politicians don’t get elected by being really smart people when it comes to dealing with complex problems.” More important: Ability to backstab, put on good face, and select experts. “All of our systems, especially in the West, are not meant to deal with crisis, they are meant to deal with normalcy.” Arto: Some Asian countries have dealt with it pretty well. 00:14:55 Finance minister of Hesse, Germany committed suicide, probably because of COVID19-crisis: (Thomas Schäfer) NY Post: German state financial minister kills himself over coronavirus ‘despair’ Fear And Economics 00:15:25 Fear & Economic bailouts smuggler: “Every response is better than no response, even if it’s just about dealing with your fear […] what you can see is, that the first responses that are taken are the ones easiest to implement for a state.” Distributing free money! German states are handing out €9-15k for small businesses, with a total volume of €50 Billion. BMWI: Soforthilfe für Solo-Selbstständige und Kleinstbetriebe; IBB: Liquiditätsengpässe wegen Coronavirus- Unterstützung für Berliner Unternehmen This takes fear out of the system. A lot of people are still primarilary concerned about the economic effects. Frank: economic effects are already secondary effects. smuggler: pressing the red panic button, to buy time (lockdown). 00:18:21 Recap this week’s events (Mar 23-29) 00:19:55 Orthogonal narratives: “Masks don’t work” smuggler: You cannot tell people to wear masks, if your own hospital staff has not enough masks… Balaji S. Srinivasan’s Twitter Thread: Collection of weekly narratives 00:22:20 Similarities to history (1918 pandemic): - don’t panic, nothing to fear but fear itself, everything is under control, we are taking care of it, you don’t need to do anything, everything will be fine - erodes trust in authorities with progression of pandemic - lying breeds the fear - why repeating? Politicians cannot deal with crisis - polulation with crisis experience tend to respond better 00:26:28 “The Great Influenza”, Twitter Thread - “In 1918 fear moved ahead of the virus like the bow wave before a ship. Fear drove the people, and the government and the press could not control it. They could not control it because every true report had been diluted with lies. And the more the officials and newspapers reassured, the more they said, There is no cause for alarm if proper precautions are taken, or Influenza is nothing more or less than old-fashioned grippe, the more people believed themselves cast adrift, adrift with no one to trust, adrift on an ocean of death.” p.340 - smuggler: a lot of people mistrust the media in general. General assumption: “Whatever is said publicly, is false.” Search for alternative truths. - Slate Star Codex: Face Masks: Much More Than You Wanted To Know 00:29:23 False treatments. smuggler: “There’s this general inability to even think about remedies, and how things actually work, people buy stuff because it comes from alternative sources, not because it is actually well researched.” that’s why medical research is based on quantification 00:30:17 Conspiracy theories. Frank: “Turning the story they hear into either totally denying it, or making it worse, in this super highly coordinated conspiracy.” Frank: “It’s a bioweapon but it doesn’t kill anyone because the numbers are false” 00:31:28 Arto: “In the future, it will be clear that masks are a good idea.” “Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS! They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!” Feb 29, 2020, @Surgeon_General 00:33:16 Today’s numbers (Mar 29th): 10,000 Spain; 6,000+ Italy - NYPD: 600 infected, 3000 missing from work (10% work force) Inflation 00:34:25 Inflation (free money handed out) smuggler’s prediction: “For Germany, up to 30% of the domestic product (GDP) this year will be destroyed.” 00:35:24 Bill Gates’ TED Talk: US$ 3-4 trillon. Might be significantly underestimated. Bill Gates TED Talk 2015 Bill Gates TED Connects talk 2020 USA is talking about US$ 3 trillon bailout. “A trillion here, a trillion there, soon you’re talking real money." 00:37:30 Move into other asset classes. Specifically gold. Selling property. AirBnB: refinancing one apartment after the other, is not working anymore. overall a bad year for over-leveraging :( Chinese real estate: buy two apartments, get one free. (Well, almost.) Berlin: prices went down, apartments are cheap. Ukraine: luxuries houses are considered by population like the bank account. Renationalization Of Industries And Trade 00:41:44 Capitalization of companies. Most have been overleveraged. Ability to produce is going down. Bail-out money from state in exchange of stock. CEOs not being able to draw bonuses in the future. Re-nationalization of companies? State will become a big shareholder, and board member. 00:45:15 Supply chain fragility. Management ideas since the 80s (stock on the road, just in time). Increasing strategic stockpile: Government has taken over complete trade in medical goods & pharmaceuticals (Germany). Future: Stock is held more closely to production? Competition: who keeps the workers? Shutdown on parcels. 00:48:00 smuggler: “Global trade is re-spun into something that is tightly controlled by the states.” “The economic topology now becomes the political topology.” 00:48:32 Centralization of production. Restriction of worker’s movement: implication to food production. Harvest hands are missing. Frank: Impossible to replace them with domestic workers. smuggler: Unskilled seasonal workers need to have experience to be productive. And Fitness. Bloomberg report on food production Free Speech 00:51:36 Arto: “Free Speech was already on its last legs, anyway.” Hate Speech. Platform level enforcement (Facebook, etc). 00:53:00 smuggler: “Policing on the net has taken a boost with coronavirus.” “This idea that the state has to control the information flow is becoming much more dominant, even in countries that allegedly had some free speech tradition.” Combination of algorythmic and human filtering. Targeted to anything related to pandemic, and political speech (keyword analysis, topic analysis). Human side of filtering is currently off-work, so currently there’s a lot of automated, imprecise flagging and deleting. Also happening on cloud-servers (Google Documents, GMail). Trying to rebuilt the Great Firewall of China (防火长城 fanghuo changcheng). 00:56:27 Twitter was essential in understanding what was happening in China. Leaked Videos, Photos, etc. Many sources are removed already! New Twitter “safety guidelines”: - Now, we will require people to remove Tweets that include the following: - Content that increases the chance that someone contracts or transmits the virus, including: - Denial of expert guidance - Encouragement to use fake or ineffective treatments, preventions, and diagnostic techniques - Misleading content purporting to be from experts or authorities 00:57:53 Frank: “They’re putting out false information themselves (like … with the masks), and it’s also the case that we don’t know the truth. I mean, that’s the whole problem of a developing pandemic, that a lot of the truth about the virus, and the disease, is actually not known at this point, not even by experts, they’re all trying to figure it out.” - Twitter is becoming an Epistemic Arbitrage. - No possibility to openly discuss. - Undermining process to come up with the least wrong data in the future. - Situation is highly dynamic. 00:59:41 Twitter was used for collaboration between scientists, publishing pre-prints, distributed peer-review (quickly debunking, too). - Preprint: Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120 and Gag - Debunked: Trevor Bedford’s Twitter Thread Political Symbolism 01:00:50 Traffic shaping as political symbolism. smuggler: “Information control becomes a political symbol.” EU calls to reduce video quality on Netflix, etc. Politican making demands based on not understanding how these services work. Companies can gain reputation by responding quickly to these political demands. Identity Verification For Platforms 01:02:45 Keyword and topic analysis to prevent “false information”. USA: EARN IT Act (freedom of liability). EFF: The EARN IT Bill Is the Government’s Plan to Scan Every Message Online Started against child pornography, now widened to prevent spread of false information concerning the virus. smuggler: “If you make it mandatory for everything to be dynamically scanned, what you of course have to give up, is End-to-End Encryption.” Proposed by US Senate, but hasn’t been passed (yet). 01:04:44 United States Dept. of Justice: Clarifying Lawful Overseas Use of Data (CLOUD) Act: network of jurisdictions. US + Eu + whoever else signs Push on clearname (legal name, “real” name) push on all platforms 01:05:30 NetzDG (Netzwerkdurchsetzungsgesetz = Network Enforcement Act, also known as the Facebook Act): against hatespeech, used for actual police raids. Action day every two months, where police arrests people who conducted hate speech on social media. Prevention Of Political Turmoil, Coups, Etc. 01:06:06 smuggler: “a crisis like that is a crisis of all systems.” “There are quite a a few people who are afraid that the situation will be exploited to force changes in the political system by non-legal means, we’re talking coup d'êtats, revolutions, etc.” Current examples: at least two states Revolutions don’t bring better people into power. Political stablization by surveillance. 01:08:15 China’s political situation Precarious for presidency (习近平 Xi Jinping, since 2013) Perceived mismanagement at beginning of crisis. Competence is prerequiste of staying in power. 01:09:15 Frank: “To me it seems like again, we have this conflict between free market and basically a centralized economy.” Cutting streaming: people need the bandwidth to do work. Identity verification and certificates. Arto: “Credentials serve as a proxy for you being an expert.” Every conspiracy theory comes with a doctor (or other degree). Disappointments In Libertarian Ideals And Voluntaryist Communities 01:11:00 smuggler: “The vast majority of people, seen individually, are unable to deal with the unknown and with actual crisis events. And it doesn’t make it better or less good to introduce the state, or control the markets, or whatever […] in a way, if the majority of your population is idiots, it almost seems that having somebody with a slightly higher IQ telling them what to do, being the right approach. I’m not saying it’s ethically correct…” Markets are not rational. “What we’re really seeing is that there’s a problem that in crisis, mass atomic individualism breaks down to the collective of idiots. […] It’s something people have always told me, but I’ve never believed that.” “When it comes to the vast majority, I’m seriously disappointed.” “A lot of people I would consider freedom-lovers […] are now demonstrating that all they were about was they want to be contrarians.” Atomic Individualism approach showed that it’s failing, like the nation-state. Most important right now to work on voluntary, resilient groups. 01:15:50 Arto quoting: “There’s a silver lining to this crisis: now you know which of your friends are idiots.” Spanish: ser (used to talk about permanent or lasting attributes) vs. estar (used to indicate temporary states and locations), both meaning “to be”. Meme: “Radical anarchists are urging people to obey the state” H.L. Mencken: “Democracy is the worship of jackals by jackasses.” 01:17:45 Frank: “I was hoping that every libertarian understands that, and stays the fuck at home […] voluntarily. I don’t understand why people didn’t do it, especially the libertarians, […] if the state mandates a lockdown, they throw a corona party at home to protest.” Personality differences. 01:19:50 Frank’s Addict Theory. Most people act like addicts. Their drug, comfort, is threatened through crisis. Reaction of addicts: total denial (“There is no problem”), or justifications to keep up repeating old behavior (nobody wants to change behavoir) Also addict like: Ego-centricity (Doesn’t matter if granny dies!) 01:21:33 Responsible individual action fails. Bigger complexity. smuggler: “Externalizing the whole crisis management, and crisis preperation to the state, has been a real disaster. But the alternative - which is, atomic libertarians - they’re failing as well.” Arto quoting: “I wonder how libertarians are dealing with the fact that the current crisis is annihilating their entire ideology” How to make peace between individual liberty and being forced to take collective action against certain external threat? The right response for problems like these: many people coordinating their activity towards the problem, and is has to happen fast, but doesn’t have to happen perfect. Problem: Large parts of the population not cooperating (if 20% do not cooperate, it doesn’t matter what the leftover 80% do, especially in pandemic scenario). The 80% is not the issue, the 20% is. Level of Enforcement? 01:26:45 Failed to build communities that are able to respond (only Twitter crowd, and a few conferences). - Arto: “The atomized individual is nothing but plankton for Leviathan”, paraphrase of Jack Donovan (“In a sea of billions, a man alone is plankton”, Chapter: Belonging is Becoming, in: Becoming a Barbarian, 2016) 01:28:00 Arto: Doesn’t consider himself libertarian anymore. - Arto’s Talk at HCPP 2018: Post-Libertarian Realpolitik, Slides 01:28:18 smuggler: Implementation is failing. - “When it comes to the group, we’re failing.” - “We’re all holed up individually.” Communities And Pandemics 01:30:04 Frank: Communities that live together in one place (TAZ, no one is living there as of now). 01:30:40 Arto: Villages in Carpathians. - Remote and defenseable. - “Often solutions are so old-fashioned and boring, that they even escape notice in our focus on the cypherpunk future.” 01:31:48 smuggler: Community in the rocky mountains. - Dailymail: ‘You’re not welcome!': Worried residents tell rich ‘virus refugees’ flocking to the Hamptons, Martha’s Vineyard and Aspen to stay away to stop the spread of coronavirus in their communities - How do resilient structures look like, and where they should be positioned? - Build resilient structure long before the crisis hits. 01:32:48 Arto: “Even though we started preparing early, there wasn’t enough time to do a good job of it.” 01:33:11 Frank: Cannot compare these communities. - Community would relatively early cut off outside contact. - Units that are interfacing with outside world, but that are mostly seperated. That’s what you need for pandemics. 01:34:15 Arto: Housing together with weaker and more risky people. - Arto is living currently with 11 people in the house. - Not everyone has the same level of risk awareness. - Frank: “The chain is only as strong as the weakest link.” 01:35:18 “The Great Influenza”: Historic examples of communities where communities isolated themselves early. - Australia is shining example, only succumbed in 3rd wave: “Australia had escaped. It had escaped because of a stringent quarantine of incoming ships. Some ships arrived there with attack rates as high as 43 percent and fatality rates among all passengers as high as 7 percent. But the quarantine kept the virus out, kept the continent safe, until late December 1918 when, with influenza having receded around the world, a troopship carrying ninety ill soldiers arrived.” (p.375) 01:37:39 Threats with spreading behavior. - Foxes and Henhouse. - Rippling effects. - Proctecting everybody requires cohersive regime, so some deaths must be taken as toll. - Isolation can only be short-term remedy, later: controlled exposure, requires discipline of community. - Atomic anarchist thought. 01:38:33 Cohersive state = single point of failure. - Arto: Epidemiologists make same mistake as central planners, they assume what they propose can be done. Projections based on these assumptions. - Failures: Political will (half-assed implementation), population is not complying, information asymmetry. - Some states seem to handle it well, but story is not over yet (Resurgence): Singapore, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and China. - “People think of Wuhan as the worst case, actually, it’s be the best case.” - Hubei province, less than 1% of population was infected. Western numbers will be way higher. - Lockdown happened with about 500 cases, US is still not locked down. Positive Things 01:42:05 Positive things! - Open-Source Ventilators, bottom-up. - Arto: Most deaths will be in third-world countries, these things might make a big difference there. - Future: no idea what that will look like, just no cohersive state. - smuggler: Not re-create central command, lack of information isn’t removed by distribution. - Quick responses, quick recovers. - smuggler: “When it comes to the ventilators, for example, a year ago that was more or less illegal behavior […] and now, we’re basically relying on that. Same is true for mass production, same is true for people volunteering for illegal drug trials, and stuff like that.” - Future where positive actions can be amplified, and negative actions can be pertailed. - Frank: “How can we self-organize into communities where we bubble up truth quicker? […] Sometimes you have to kick the noise out. […] It’s also not true that there’s no problem with false information and noise, there is a problem with that. […] I just believe that censorship is not a solution to the problem.” - smuggler: knowing reputation, knowledge is also pretty localized to specific topic. “Social media is not a replacement for human relationship.” 01:48:10 smuggler: “You learn by having a relationship with the person. When I listen to you, Frank, or you, Arto, I kinda know how you think, where your weaknesses in thinking and where your strengths in thinking are, so when I listen to you I can make my own conclusions from what you say, […] so your information is really valueable.” - The vast majority of senders are people where you don’t have this background information. - Arto: There’s no shortcut to get that information. - Transitive trust. - In current situation, these things become more visible. Ventilators And Taking Action 01:49:30 smuggler: “We really have to embrace those problems […] in the past, there have been a lot of ‘Oh, it’s not really a problem’, you know we can put it away and the market will solve it. What is really important to learn from this whole sitution, I think, is that, we know that the problems exist and it’s up to us to create solutions, because if we don’t create solutions, the solutions that will come are shit. I’m not talking about the three of us, I’m talking about the community of people who actually want to have more liberty. We have to embrace the problems and we have to solve them, and we cannot just externalize them to another mythical entity, you know, not the state in this case, but the market in which apparently no one is participating from our communities.” 01:50:29 Arto: Lviv is particularly bad with medical supplies. - Lviv infectious diseases hospital (Львівська інфекційна лікарня) had a total of 4 ventilators. - Grassroots effort to tackle COVID19: (Lviv IT Cluster)[https://itcluster.lviv.ua/en/lvivskyj-klaster-zapuskaye-masove-testuvannya-naselennya-na-covid19/], about 100 members, they import test kits and will provide mobile testing stations, they purchase PPE and ventilators as donations for hospitals. 01:53:18 smuggler: “The market works great, if the value system and the direction of solution is clear. And then, it’s amazing, then people say: I can copy this, I can copy this…” - If values / solutions are unclear, people will rather create more problems, than solve problems. 01:54:15 Distributed mass production of open-source ventilator designs. - Intubation is complicated procedure, not easily learned, special requirements on equipment. - What is possible? - Limits: man-power Mass-Gatherings 01:55:08 Mass-Gatherings and COVID19. - Protests have been outruled, mass-gatherings, conferences have been cancelled. - smuggler: Crypto-Travelling-Circus is completely dead at the moment. Effects? - Frank: maybe there’s more code written now. ;) - smuggler: After lockdown, they might stil want to have lists with legal names for gatherings and events. Permits are likely. - Restart by checking Immunization of participients (Certificate of Immunity?). - smuggler: Protests and demonstrations are a building block of democracy. - This has been taken away: “If you don’t know there’s currently a pandemic going on, it could also be confused with being a coup d'êtat, where basically nobody is allowed on the streets anymore, you cannot have protests anymore, you can’t meet people, you can’t go to the government office and demand your rights to be honored…” - Democracy incompatible with pandemics? Electronic Voting, Remote Elections 02:00:15 Electronic Voting - US: push for electronic voting (easy manipulation possible). 02:00:52 Secrecy of Vote: voting by email - EU Parliament mistakenly sent mail to all members, instead of counting party. - Remote working doesn’t work so well for parliament work. - Impact on system. 02:02:05 Frank: “We’re not prepared for a pandemic in terms of processes.” - The Law is not in place to be done in a remote way. - There’s no way to not go to the notary in person (even for authorizing someone else). - Hire someone who is immune? Antibody Gophers And Plasma Farms 02:03:18 Arto: People who have anti-bodies and can prove it, will be in high demand. - For serum (blood), and as gophers. - Blood plasma trade from Wuhan survivors (plasma farms). - China influencing geopolitical alliances through plasma trade? - Dark Markets add blood category? Burning Through Population 02:06:02 More reckless people have more influence now. - Frank: “States who let it burn quickest through their population, are the ones who will be first in line when the economy restarts.” - Arto: Overwhelmed hospitals will give them reason to rethink. - Brazil uses the burning through. - smuggler: might fix the pension system. 02:07:58 Three models: - complete lockdown (Wuhan approach, Examples: Singapore, South Korea). - complete burn-through scenario (mass casualties, Examples maybe Sweden and Brazil?). - those who cannot decide between either (Western countries, Examples: Germany, USA). Lessons From SARS 02:09:30 Asian countries who are SARS veterans reacted differently. - Greenfeld, Karl Taro (2006): China Syndrome: The True Story of the 21st Century’s First Great Epidemic - Very valuable lessons in there. - Strategic stockpiles (Singapore vs. USA). 02:11:23 Vaccine Developments - Bill Gates TED Connects talk 2020 - at least one year Cash 02:13:00 smuggler: Cash= Regulartory reactive control; Everything Else= Future Bio Defense - Assumption: Spreading of cash= spreading of contaminants. - Immedeate move by some states: restrictions, move to electronic payment systems. - Restrictions on cash before social distancing, limitation of how many people can be in the shop at the same time, disinfection of cards, queues, no PPE… etc. - Contactless payments by card. Problem: PIN number, but: allowed amounts without PIN have been upped. - You do not control the money on your card, you just have a claim for this amount to your bank. 02:17:10 Assets with direct control, without third party. - Cash (might be difficult to spend, tho). - Gold (Coins!), or Silver Coins. - Executive Order 6102, 1933: USA might confiscate Gold again in 2020. - Cryptocurrencies. Problem: Not widely accepted (at your local supermarket?), and strong dependecy on working exchange, communication, and energy infrastructure. - smuggler: “Our Value Transfer Systems are not as resilient as we would like them to be, and not at all trustworthy.” - “Perfect opportunity” to push cashless. - Arto quoting: “All the Fiat currencies are sinking, just at different rates.” 02:20:05 Possible solutions - Move to crypto, scan QR codes? See problems above. - Frank& smuggler’s SCRIT: cheap, super fast, offline capable, untraceable ecash. Backable system with gold, Bitcoin, etc. - Buying physical gold is really hard at Berlin at the moment, gold-backed SCRIT might be a very good solution. Biodefense 02:23:00 Long-term implementations, strategic security response. - Temperature checks. Not so effective for COVID19. - Rapid testing. Might become mandatory at border crossing. - Arto: Some Chinese hacked this screening by taking drugs to lower temperature. False Positives. - Actively circumventing the measures: first case in France was Chinese woman fleeing China. - smuggler: “It’s fascinating how people are either not believing that they might be a risk, or really not giving a shit and then breaking sensible rules…” - Arto: SARS lesson, doctors showing symptoms rationalized it away (human denial). - “Coronavirus gives you the urge to travel” memes - Setting up border camps for mandatory quarantine plus rapid testing, three times negative and you can go in (Hongkong, Singapore, China, some Balkan countries). - India: internal ID plus health checkpoints. 02:29:15 Freedom of travel. - Germany: restricting travel to certain states. - Italy and Spain: restrict leaving house! - Spain: Dog-walking is a legit reason to leave house, renting dog business. Face Recognition And Masks. 02:31:28 Future of Face Recognition with masks. - Airport CCTV upgrades: Thermal imaging. - AI face recognition also works with masks: - Hikvision Fever Screening Thermal Camera - Thermal Body Temp Measurement Solution - Dahua - temperature pattern is biometric indicator - use overlay infrared and visual light to see partially through a lot of mask types. - Privacy Extremists Masks: should be impenetrable with infrared, and helmet-like - Biometrics take 150-250 points (most: eye, nose, mouth) 02:34:00 Abortion of face recognition rollout in the West? - EU considering ban., further reading: The EU’s agenda to regulate AI does little to rein in facial recognition Shifting Old And New Behaviors 02:34:48 smuggler: “If masks become standard attire […] it would undermine a lot of biometric data to social networks.” - Standard cell camera won’t pick up on your ID (random snapshots). - Arto: Hongkong forbid wearing of masks because of the protests, now masks are mandatory. Things change! - Why is it psychological hurdle for Westeners? - Influencer and celebrity campaigns. 02:37:12 Handshakes, a thing of the past. - It’s a dirty habit. 02:37:30 Guided by mainstream behavior. - Frank: At one point it will be weird, when you don’t wear a mask. - Arto: Tipping point should be low, 20-30%: Social tipping points - Frank: Might be temporary, masks are uncomfortable, habit might not stick. - Arto: Community responsibility in Asian countries is higher. - smuggler: Designs are old and for special purposes, maybe something new will emerge. - Positive side of the Pandemic. :) Infection control and identity, physical privacy 02:40:42 Testing, and contact tracing, enforced quarantine, isolation. - Larry Brilliant’s TED talk: “Early detection, rapid response.” - As soon as you have positive tested people: - First measure: Isolation. - Second measure: Test them in isolation until release. - Call people on person’s contact list and put into isolation as well. - Contact Chain: Contacts of infected person or also contacts of contacts? Depends on how fast testing is, and symptomatics and spread of disease. - SARS-CoV-2 contact tracing should be 2 hops (including contacts of contacts). - Introverts might have an advantage here. - Cellphone or wearable with contract tracing app: Device exchange 02:46:00 First Option: Broadcasting System on Phone or Wearable. - South Korea Contact Tracing App: Bluetrace. - Register with phone number, connected with key of health authority. Broadcast via Bluetooth. - Gives health authorities list of contacts and means to contact them. - South Korea is watching quarantined citizens with a smartphone app. Thousands in coronavirus lockdown will be monitored for symptoms—and tracked to make sure they stay at home and don’t become “super spreaders.” 02:48:00 German Contact Tracing App: Still in application rounds. 02:48:20 Second Option: Cellphone Location Tracking. Example: Israel. Data is always available to cellphone provider, this data is used. 2-10m radius for COVID19, and indoor/ outdoor problem - cellphone data is not precise enough. 02:49:46 Third option: GPS logging. either directly broadcast to health authority, or store it for a day. 02:50:35 Privacy risks: enormous networks of social interactions, with recording. Records of location data, either centralized or hard to control. A lot of countried where people are immedeately findable by state. Arto: Pre-requisite is connection between legal person and the device. In Ukraine, SIM cards are still anonymous. smuggler: “The reason it is done is because it simulates actionism.” Cellphone location weakness: doesn’t work for contact tracing. Goal might be to enforce social distancing and dissolve large groups. Contact tracing weakness: catching too many people. Frank: “It would be a total privacy nightmare, but […] it a good solution to a pandemic problem, which means every epidemilogist is asking for it, and […] it only really works if basically all people use it.” Likely to end with a global soliution? Enforcing Isolation 02:54:50 Quarantine, and enforcing isolation. Hongkong quarantine bracelet solution: wearing bracelet plus app, bluetooth signals, user has to send selfies wearing it. might be all into one app: Testing, and contact tracing, enforced quarantine. 02:57:00 Isolation method: Cordon sanitaire. Make sure person has less contacts. Enforcement by: binding device to body of person (bracelet, wearable), cannot be removed withour destroying it (tamper detection). Device is connected with phone, which knows location. Person with device cannot walk away from phone: Geofencing. (GPS location, cellphone network location, tracking bluetooth beacons and WiFi hotspots; all of these can be verified). Circumvent the system: demanding video of user (biometric recognition and background analysis with lightning). Using fitness trackers, some can already do biometric binding (heartbeat), example Apple iWatch. Rollout for future prison system. Don’t forget to drop your cellphone if you drop the wearable. Location history and social graph becomes available to authorities. Also incorporating sound environment. Using ultrasound beacons instead of bluetooth beacons. Future: Global Scale, Cybercrime 03:03:30 Global Standardization. smuggler: “There’s an enormous amount of work and competition right there, because […] the smart people in the field know, that if their technology works the best, they will become the recommended standard for […] the WHO.” South Korea makes it Open Source, and wants their app to become standard. Theirs is pretty bad on beacon tracing, but it’s not the worst system. 03:04:54 Cybercrime and cyber-warfare. smuggler: “Right now, there’s this rush to roll it out, and there’s almost o consideration spent on things like the privacy of the user, centralization of data, or the possible effects those systems have for a cyberattack. Just imagine you’re able to attack the contact tracing system of another country and create a shit-load of false alarms- or, if you’re able to surpress the working of such a contact tracing system, so that the authorities cannot quickly contain pandemics. So, there’s a huge cybercrime and cyber-warfare aspect, in addition to the privacy aspect.” Can it be prevented? Are there better solutions? Overall method is correct. Network effects are important, you want an integrated global system. Future: Population control, Personal Life, Law 03:08:10 Crowd suppression and population control. Can be used by police to find suspects or crime rings. If it becomes mandatory, these systems will be easily combineable with CCTV. People without beacon can be detected. Enforcement will be easy. Internal checkpoints in places where people gather. Combine with access to apartment buildings (as already done in China): keyless entry. Which is conveniant, and convenience is the ultimate drug. 03:11:02 Effects for personal life. Knowing secret meetings, churches. Dating possibilities: matching infection status. Blackmail for cheating and going to brothels will be easy. 03:11:42 Law and juristic scope. Most countries already have infectious control laws set in place. In theory you can already be arrested, sent to prison, etc., but it’s not enforced yet. Frank: “There’s a lot of laws in the books which seem benign, but when you can 100% enforce them with modern technology, then it becomes a total nightmare.” smuggler: “For me, really, the future as it looks right now is everybody will have contact tracing and isolation enforcing apps, and/or wearables, and if nothing dramatic happens, these systems will be bad for privacy and freedom, globally.” 100.000 people in Italy violating lockdown Italy is increasing fines up to €4.000, and if you break the curfew and are infected, then you can face up to multiple years in prison. Future: Escaping devices, Building Alternatives -03:14:30 Escaping your devices. - Dumb phones/ burner phones, won’t be acceptable anymore. - Arto: “If you plan to go to any civilized area, there will be- automated or not- checkpoints, to see that you are tracked. So, it won’t be that easy, except in the countryside, to actually escape your devices. And that’s a big change from today.” -03:15:20 Prevention and Alternatives. - Big question: can the technology rollout somehow be prevented? Can we build something without the privacy downsides? - smuggler: Even countryside might not be excluded. Voice recognition. - Companies already focussing on third-world country solutions. Tracking beacons are available around US$10, managed by signup stations, no cell needed. 03:20:22 New Tech Acceptance Campaigns. Similar to vaccination campaigns. Countries just need to invite organizations, and create legal enforcement rules. Regional variations possible. 03:21:12 Third world countries. Escape of enforcement might be possible temporarily in third world countryside. Third world countries will take heaviest death toll. Death toll Spanish flu- India: 2 Million; USA: 670.000 Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation helped rolling out for COVID19 already, maybe more charities will follow. Bugs, IoT, LoRa, Specialized Wearables 03:23:26 Implementation problems in first world countries, and bluetooth bugs. More privacy friendly options are bluetooth-based. Secondary option in Hongkong, because of technical troubles: Let WhatsApp broadcast location. Arto: Android and Bluetooth is extremely buggy: Recently discovered bluetooth flaw, unpatchable in Android

Frank Braun talks with Arto Bendiken about the ongoing Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19). How did we get here and what convinced us to prep. Paranoia, case fatality rates, and vaccines. Secondary and tertiary effects. Normalcy, authority, and confirmation bias. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Show Notes Introduction 00:01:40 What set this whole thing in motion? Both Frank and Arto are already in lockdown mode, and prepared. It’s ~6 weeks since both of them started “buying some insurance”. Arto prepared for 11 people. 00:05:25 What made you think it’s going to be a big deal? (Risk assessment) Observations from Wuhan. Lessons from Spanish Influenza 1918-1920. High infectiousness, showing no symptoms while being infectious. People suddenly dropping in the streets. 00:08:00 Book: “The Great Influenza” Few media coverage on strange cases, like the woman dropping on the vegetable market. 2020, A strange year 00:09:10 First week of February: cancelling all travel plans (Arto Bendiken). 00:10:00 “An earthquake happened in Wuhan, and the tsunami will follow. It is hard to see the tsunami until it comes close to the shore, but it will follow.” (Arto citing Steve) 00:11:05 Analytical preparation, emotional process (fear) comes later. 00:11:40 Reactions by others: accusations of panicking. 00:12:03 Convincing others to prepare? 00:12:28 People buy insurance for things that are less likely to happen. 00:14:43 NN Taleb’s Tweet on Paranoia: “When paranoid, you can be wrong 1000 times & you will survive. If non-paranoid; wrong once, and you, your genes, & the rest of your group are done.” - Not everyone takes action on something so far away. 00:15:40 Balaji S. Srinivasan’s Three categories of people: “1) Post-headline people: only believe things that are already in print 2) No filter people: forget it, they’ll believe anything :) 3) Pre-headline people: will listen to a rational argument and look at primary data”. 00:17:05 Authority bias: Credentials, degrees, other people’s opinion. 00:18:10 Talking to family and friends about situation when there was still time to prepare. 00:18:40 Cassandra Myth (Iliad) 00:19:15 Uniform set of responses: you’re panicking and making it worse, dismissal 00:19:53 Bill Gates warned about pandemics long ago, but was dismissed as a college dropout and IT guy. (Confirmation bias, ad hominem attack) 00:21:09 Bill Gates: “The most predictable disaster in the history of the human race”. 00:21:20 Albert Camus: These things have a way of reocurring out of the blue sky. 00:21:50 Increased risk factors: base risk plus big cities, international travel. 00:22:03 On average, three pandemics a century. 00:22:21 Ebola outbreak was a close call. Hongkong Flu (1 million dead), late 1960s. Economic cost 00:23:14 Many animal to human transmissions were contained early by slaughtering millions of animals at the slightest sign of sickness. (Economical cost!) 00:23:53 Vaccines and public health system. (Smallpox) 00:25:47 We are still in the beginning of the economic impact. Common thinking errors and biases 00:26:45 Bias to focus on things that are caused by humans. Helplessness when confronted with pandemics. 00:27:37 Man-made virus from Wuhan lab? 00:28:19 Illegaly sold lab test animal at wet market? (野味 yewei, bush meat; 街市 jieshi, wet market) 00:30:08 Cognitive bias: systematic error of thinking. Man is the rationalizing animal. (Example: seeing faces in clouds) 00:31:31 Examples of observed biases: authority bias, confirmation bias, combinations of these. 00:32:25 Normalcy bias (nobody wants to be bothered to change routines). The Virus: An Abstract Threat, vs. Zombies 00:33:05 Max Brooks (World War Z): Fear of pandemics is so deep, cannot be discussed rationally. Zombies = Pandemic. 00:34:50 Virus is an abstract threat, there will be 1 trillion copies of it by infection. 00:35:14 Plague: people did not even know what caused infection. (Germ theory) 00:36:45 Are Zombie enthusiasts better prepared for a virus pandemic? 00:37:55 Trying to find out what’s going on fundamentally vs. latching onto experts. 00:38:48 Engaging brain about status vs. primary data. 00:39:30 People starting with the premise that they are not smart enough to understand what’s actually going on, not making any effort of their own. 00:40:40 Trying to understand incoming data, for example the first papers coming out of Wuhan. 00:42:05 Impossible to keep up with current findings, research, and papers. 00:42:40 More data globally, in the beginning filtering was easier. Problems with “Confirmed cases” 00:42:42 Mon, March 16th: currently 170.000 confirmed cases, 5000-6000 dead. 00:42:49 Confirmed cases != infections 00:43:17 Impossible to keep up with new cases. 00:44:00 “Confirmed case count"= comes with limitations (manpower, test kits). 00:44:55 Again, not enough test kits (USA, Berlin). Wuhan could test only 3000/day in the beginning. 00:45:20 “Confirmed cases"= lag in data. 00:46:35 “When people focus on these official measures… that are limited by staffing, test kits, by political considerations, then that’s not a good way… of understanding what’s going on.” 00:46:55 “That’s why it was so good to get this leaked information, leaked videos, from Wuhan. That way we got a sense of what was actually going on.” 00:47:30 The plural of anecdote is data. 00:47:41 Investigative Reporting. 00:48:00 Actions speak louder than data: Measures against the virus were severe. 1 Mio people in lockdown, 10% of global population. Mathematical Modelling 00:48:42 Mathematical Modelling… common problems: people cannot understand exponential function. people compare to flu last year. countermeasure lag: it takes time to show effect, politics make new changes 2 days apart, makes no sense. 00:51:12 Case fatality rate. World Health Organization (WHO) 00:51:22 Role of WHO: gives recommendations for guidelines, funding by member countries (China among them), driven by political considerations. 00:52:15 Public health emergencies of international concern (PHEIC). 00:52:25 WHO got rid of the term “pandemic”. Case Fatality Rate (CFR) 00:53:25 “Naïve” Case Fatality Rate (CFR), released by WHO. First, 2.1% (mostly China); revised 3.5%, and going up. 00:55:20 SARS initial outbreak CRF ~2%, but by the end of the outbreak, it was ~6% (resolved CFR). 00:56:49 Makes no sense to compare past cases to current cases (open cases vs. resolved). 00:57:45 CFR for age groups: not taking into consideration system overload (needed care might not be provided). 00:59:22 CFR only says so much, 20% require hospitalization, many of those need ICU. 01:00:00 Hospitals in Italy are already overwhelmed, will worsen until end of the week. 01:00:40 Italy’s CFR is already higher than China’s. Secondary and Teritiary Effects 01:00:50 Cases overload the medical system, secondary effect: death rates go up. Patients with other diseases might not get medical help. Empty hospitals beds waiting for the next pandemic are unlikely. Economic impossibility, health care system already occupies significant percentage from GDP. Makeshift hospitals. 01:03:20 Investment options. Stock-market implosions. Crypto-market implosions. Flight to cash. 01:04:28 Supply chain problems. Goods coming from China. Food also comes from China. Just-in-time economy (supermarket have no more backrooms, but once or twice a day a truck delivery). Tesco is already limiting purchases like toilet paper. Respirators (EU: FFP2 & USA: N95, or FFP3 & N99): China restricted exports. Overreacting 01:08:15 “It’s always about efficieny, never about risk of failure.” 01:08:28 Pandemic response bears a similar problem like IT security. Overreaction with swine-flu might had been the reason it never got that bad, that’s why it was called an overreaction later. 01:09:23 “It’s a bit like prepping: no matter how bad it gets, you want to be overreacting in retrospect, otherwise, you didn’t prep enough. And, you’re not gonna hit exactly on target, so you wanna err on the side of overreaction.” 01:10:01 Control theory (robotics): accuracy vs. speed. Respirators and Masks 01:12:30 “You don’t have them [the respirators] until you have them in your hand” … “It’s like cash”. 01:13:10 Only stock up on masks if you intend to not avoid people. 01:14:23 Ukrainian border confiscated protective gear when trying to cross border to Poland (export is forbidden). 01:15:21 Idea that you don’t need respirators: “You don’t know how to properly use them!” “Doctors need them.” 01:15:50 Why didn’t hospitals stock up in January? True: Doctors need respirators more. 01:16:30 How can wearing a mask not help? If everyone wears a mask, that means every infected person wears a mask, and this decreases chances of transmission. (Hongkong) 01:17:25 “Wearing a respirator makes it less likely you’re getting infected yourself, … and wearing a surgical mask … helps not infecting other people, so it makes total sense that everyone wears at least surgical masks”. 01:18:40 Men’s issue: shaving gel and razors (beards and masks don’t go well together). Prepping 01:20:40 People tend to be dismissive of people with health problems, who might need medication or health care, and the elderly (“It kills only old people!"). 01:22:02 Ukrainian health care system is monopolized by state (surgeries, child birth, vaccine). “A public hospital is the last place I want to go [in the Ukraine]". 01:22:22 Contingency planning differs on country. 01:23:25 “The real carnage is going to be in third-world countries, just like it was in 1918”. (USA: 675.000 vs. India: 2 Million, Spanish Flu) 01:24:20 Lviv Infecitous Diseases Hospital messaged it would be well-prepared with 20 isolation beds (and plans to expand to 300), 4 ventilators, 0 ECMO, 10.000 surgical masks and respirators. Medical supplies 01:25:40 No difficulty to buy antibiotics in Ukraine, whereas in other countries it’s highly regulated (prescription vs. over the counter). 01:26:37 Chloroquine is promising in treatment of COVID-19 (malaria drug). 01:27:39 Paracetamol is not easy to buy in bulk. India also has restricted export (Indians source precursors from China, too). Location 01:28:40 Arto’s housing situation: countryside Western Ukraine, foothills of Carpathians. Frank: Berlin suburbs. Location cannot be changed later. Time is a constraint. Economy is going down. “If you wanna prep now, and you don’t already have a place to go… I don’t see why you should go there now”. Consider threat model: main risk for both is electricity going down. Social Distancing 01:32:51 Where do you stay put, and with whom? Acquire resources to stay put: food and drinking water, some personal protection for supply runs. Nitrile gloves Any mask will be useful, at least you won’t touch your face. Disinfectant: WHO guide how to make your own, primers might still be available. Goggles: Construction glasses or swim goggles. Scenario 01:36:30 Think about your scenario: staying inside apartment for a long time. food, water, protective gear what could go wrong- how do I deal with it? If electricty goes down: gasoline cooker, cheap carbohydrates (no freezer/ storage), pressure canning (no freezer, conserving meat). 01:40:30 Most likely scenario: you stay indoors, everything works (electricity, water, internet) first, get prepared for this scenario. 01:41:00 If electricity goes down for extended periods, water goes down. The big problem is not drinking water, but sanitation. Off-the-grid bucket loo with trash bags and wood shavings as absorbant, and wet wipes to clean. (BranQ portable toilet) 01:43:00 Water filter Micropur Forte Katadyn Filter Foodgrade Canisters for tap water and disinfect with Micropur Forte. 01:44:06 “I tried to focus on stuff that I normally eat anyway, … I just got a lot more, so it doesn’t go to waste. Other things like rice bags, I got as an insurance, but the rest I would eat anyway.” Threat model: Electricity, Water, Internet going down 01:44:50 Threat model and scenario. Social distancing might help burn the pandemic out. Viral shedding after recovery can be up to 37 days. Countries will handle situation differently. 01:47:10 “… if the situation gets particulary bad, which it might over here [in Ukraine] at least, I would expect some more outages, for the internet connectivity, there’s multiple options for that, so I expect at least one of them working.” 01:47:44 A lot of people getting sick means a lot of people not working, especially in grid systems workers might not be able to fix things in time. 01:48:24 “For the internet, we will see how well that works if everybody’s sitting at home watching netflix, or porn in full HD.” 01:48:59 Mobile internet. 01:49:17 Mitigate risk for short downtimes. 01:50:40 Wuhan pictures from people queuing for water. 01:51:11 Mitigate risk of having to go to the store a lot. not because of food shortages, but it’s a risk for virus exposure. 01:51:48 Going out for walks, just don’t meet anybody (countryside). avoid contact, don’t touch anything droplets in common areas that you pass on the way out (hallway, elevator). Prepping and timing 01:53:25 “Although I’m now pretty well prepared compared to most people, it kinda caught me cold-handed… because I was always interested in prepping, and I was always planning on prepping more for when SHTF, but I never really executed that much. But when I started six weeks ago, I realized how much harder… it was than I imagined, and also how much harder it was because… of such a short notice, and it was getting harder to get things, for example the respirators. It would have been so easy to stock up on all of this stuff. For example, the ridiculous situation that you had to ship me antibiotics from Ukraine although I was in Ukraine in January, I should have just bought all the prescription medicine a prepper needs.” 01:55:37 Early Infections in Italy, Seattle, etc. happened in January/Feburary. COVID-19 death in Spain 2 weeks before the first confirmed case there. (Lack of indicator) Food and Cans 01:56:56 Cheap carbohydrates, easy to store. (“Insurance”) Potatoes, rice, buckwheat. 01:57:10 Newly acquired freezer to stock up on meat. Canned meat as backup. Pressure Canning, if you have time, or already own a pressure canner. 01:58:15 Add variety, if you switch to carbohydrates. Canned veggies and canned fruit. Salt, Pepper, Spices. Deliveries 01:59:18 Deliveries still working. Disinfecting parcels. All delayed (surge of deliveries, momentarily overwhelmed). Fat 02:01:05 Freeze butter, or make Ghee. Olive oil might be adulterated with industry/ vegetable oils. Timescale 02:02:55 “Right now, people in the last week or two stopped laughing… and stopped repeating this mindless It’s Just The Flu, Bro… in any case, they’re still expecting this will be over soon. … And authorities are still telling them it will be over soon, prepare for a few weeks.” even emergency measures expire in about a month (bars and club are closed only until April, etc.) People stay at home close to 50 days. (Wuhan) China is looked upon as having “beaten the virus”. 02:04:57 “It’s always better if you’re dealing with a foreign virus, than with a domestic virus”. In Iran: Zionist conspiracy. “Virus doesn’t care!” 02:05:40 Once China resumes work, and life, there will be another wave. re-imports to China (from Italy for example) fully stopping virus is not so easy. virus will become endemic. multiple waves. Dystopian future vs. helpful tracking and tracing 02:07:26 Countries which deal well with it: outbreak, containment measures, a lot of testing, tracking, and contact tracing -> situation under control, problem: reintroduction from other countries. China is currently trying to automate contact tracing. Location tracking. Surveillance cameras with face recognition. Helpful scaling of tracking vs. dystopian nightmare. 02:10:10 The Virus can travel up to 4,5m, passenger infected others through a long-distance bus ride. video camera in bus. position of citizens is known at all times. re-engineering passenger’s travel was possible. 02:12:20 Controlling coming waves, keeping the country in lockdown is not a solution unless we transition to a permanentely remote economy. 02:12:30 Appeal from engineer perspective. Social Scoring system is already established. put people on specific quarantines if they were in contact with an infected person. government AI tells you if you should leave your apartment today, or get a test. scaling without the disruptions from now would be possible. 02:14:04 Germany outruled events with more than 50 people, but if you do an event with less people, you need to create a list of all attendees. (old school approach) pressure into direction of more surveillance. pushing ban on cash forward as well. China destroyed cash on basis of contamination questions. some chains in Germany went cashless because of the virus. Acceptance pipeline 02:16:39 “Acceptance pipeline”, dealing with grief: it won’t be over soon. 02:17:10 Pipe dream: Many place hope on vaccine development. vaccines are for healthy populations. vaccine is far away: more than 12 months, at least. might not be easy to develop (7 different coronaviruses, 15 years of development but currently no vaccine for either). not so effective: 20-60% for common flu vaccine. high mutation rate. 02:20:30 Accepting that there’s no easy fix. what are you going to do to plan for it? avoid infection as long as possible (6 months). look at vaccine development like a lottery win. by the time the vaccine is developed (18 months), whatever will happen has already happened. 02:23:12 It’s hard to plan to stay in apartment for 18 months. instead, plan for a world with Coronavirus, and a lot of lockdowns, and a lot of infections. Learning from past pandemics 02:23:35 Learn from past pandemics (1918 Spanish flu, 3 waves). 02:24:04 Spanish flu: passed through ships, first cases (first wave) very mild, less than influenza, less than COVID-19. Second wave, 5 months of carnage. Worse than COVID-19, at least currently. Third wave, somewhere in between. future waves might be more lethal. or become endemic, less lethal. it would be prudent to plan on a worst-case scenario where it takes a couple of years. “something worth paying attention to is going on.” Economic changes 02:27:50 Practical preparations for 6 months is difficult (economically). savings rates in Western countries are shit. people are out of jobs already (events cancelled, tourism breaks down). bankruptcy. no more fundraising tours. airlines discharge employees. 02:29:29 Good thing: remote work will be more accepted. Prepping List 02:30:00 Supply run gear for securing supplies goggles (and anti-fog spray), respirator (or surgical mask), rain poncho (or whole body protection suit), gloves (most important). 02:32:20 Surfaces: virus can be contangious on surfaces a few days (up to 9 days). Buttons, handrails, etc. (disposable gloves). 02:33:38 Coming from outside to inside. Shoes (rain boots can be easily disinfected). 02:34:10 Sourcing is already hard, will become more difficult. switching to local production. repurposing existing production facilities. 02:34:50 Power issues. solar panels, butane, propane, camping stove, space heaters on butane. fuel: gasoline, diesel, firewood. prepare for next winter. 02:36:00 Sanitation TP!!! plumber might not be available: be prepared to unplug it on your own. 02:37:05 Disinfectant Alcohol-based wet wipes since disinfectant is nearly everywhere sold out, switch to local production and DIY. 02:37:45 Medical The Prepared List/ Medical Broad-band Antibiotics: prevent secondary infections (pneumonia, 50-60% CFR). Doxycycline, Bactrim, Zithromax. India is restricting 26 medicines& pharmaceuticals, including paracetamol. China is restricting personal protective equipment (PPE) export since a month, maybe also medicine. If you take any prescription medicine, stock up for a few months at least. Stock up on painkillers (Ibuprofen and other non-steroids like aspirin, might be a risk factor for COVID-19). Prepare to treat yourself. 02:43:13 Pregnancies. Prepare for home birth. Access to healthcare resources will be restricted (Check-ups). Sourcing books. Remote consultation with midwives. Might be a common situation this year. 02:44:45 Chronic diseases and cancer patients. Might be unable to receive treatment. 02:46:34 Hygiene and Sanitary Items. Condoms. Tampons, Pads. can also be tradeables 02:47:05 Tradeables. see above, and: Alcohol. Cigarettes. Lighters. Wrap-up 02:48:05 Send us your questions! 02:48:32 Expert: Jon Stokes, ThePrepared.com. Founder of Ars Technica. 02:49:20 Book Recommendation: Barry, John M. (2004): The Great Influenza. The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History. Arto’s Twitter thread with quotes from the book 02:51:15 Book Recommendation: Hatfill, Steven; Coullahan, Robert; Walsh, John (2019): Three Seconds To Midnight. US-specific, but general sections are great. 02:51:50 “Bottom line here is: People underestimated this systematically. … Systemic error of thinking, they underestimated it, and they continue to underestimate it, even though they are no longer laughing, they continue to underestimate it. … This is something that has not happened in any of our lifetimes, there’s no listener who has seen anything that has been on the order of this, and it would be very good to get out of our normalcy bias.” recognizing a lethal situation as a lethal situation. go through the acceptance pipeline. err on the side of overreaction. it’s not about calculating the odds, we have no way to know which scenario will play out, so prepare for a few. it’s not just about us, it’s also about other people (keep granny around!), that also depends on your actions. Donation Report 02:55:11 Donation Report and Minimum Wage Calculation. Reading Recommendations Barry, John M. (2004): The Great Influenza. The Story of the Deadliest Pandemic in History. Goodreads Hatfill, Steven; Coullahan, Robert; Walsh, John (2019): Three Seconds To Midnight Goodreads Taleb, Nassim Nicholas (2020): Systemic Risk of Pandemic via Novel Pathogens - Coronavirus: A Note Taleb, Nassim Nicholas: How to react to Pandemics N.N. Taleb on paranoia Homer: Iliad (Cassandra Myth) Gates, Bill (2015): The most predictable disaster in the history of the human race Gates, Bill (2015): The next outbreak? We’re not ready. TED2015 Gates, Bill (2020): Responding to Covid-19 — A Once-in-a-Century Pandemic? Bill Gates on pandemics Camus, Albert (1947): La Peste. (The Plague) Arto’s Coronavirus reading list Arto’s thread of The Great Influenza quotes Max Brooks’ quote of World War Z fame B.S. Srinivasan on post-headline people “Naïve” Case Fatality Rate (CFR) The Virus can travel up to 4,5m Centers, Josh: The Prepared List/ General Rader, Tom: The Prepared List/ Medical Desinfectant antiviral Handrub: WHO Guide to Local Production Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Guest Arto (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. 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We talk about major threats to security, mainly focussed on future threats and the reaction from security services. Some keywords are: Nuclear proliferation, robotic warfare, technology regulation, surveillance state, bioterrorism, and omniviolence. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Show Notes Section I Future of Security Introduction: Emotional Reach, Classifying the Population, Keeping the Legitimacy 00:02:16 Crimes that really matter: How do security forces select the crimes they battle against, which ones are ignored. 00:02:33 Limitations of Crimefighting: War on drugs is ongoing, street robberies, etc. 00:03:30 State is focussing on crimes that risk itself, and on high public image. 00:04:30 Public percerption is high when public can identify and empathize with the victim (child abuse, burglary). 00:05:45 Germany: First case of predictive policing was burglary. 00:07:40 The victim matters / vulnerability: People do react less with assault of a 20-30 year old man, than with the elderly, women, or children. 00:09:13 Child porn is the universal crime where everybody gets behind the police, …and that is used for higher surveillance. Child pornography is the abdomination of the 21st century. 00:10:15 A lot of murder, a lot of kidnapping, a lot of burglaries etc, undermindes the belief in the state. Other crimes do not affect the trust so much, i.e. insurance fraud. Nobody’s sorry about big corporations being scammed. Systemic Risk Categories: Crimes That Matter First Example 00:11:34 First Example: Proliferation. Atomic weapon possession divide Good states from Bad States. 00:12:05 BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst) and Proliferation. 00:12:30 Enemy States cooperated at the fall of Soviet Block and UdSSR, because of Proliferation. 00:15:20 Blind field of Proliferation: Smuggling of Nuclear Material, Technology, Warheads. Sensor Networks to detect nuclear material (isotope scanners). 00:17:40 Rumors: Unofficial and missing warhead counts (former Soviet, US, Plane incidents over Mediterrean Sea). 00:20:04 Rumors: Cold War Soviet Union Sleeper Agents with Suitcase Bombs (not all recovered). 00:22:00 Small States profit from deterrent threat of Warheads, less likely to actually use them (cannot be retrieved). 00:22:50 Terrorist Organizations and Warheads: rely on secure territory (hollowed out state): Iran, Afghanistan, Mexico. 00:24:07 Example: Afghanistan tolerating Al-Qaeda and 9/11. 00:25:15 Just having the device doesn’t mean you’re able to trigger it: where is it from, maintenance, deploy (actors who follow through, reliable remote triggers), maybe a lot of the old warheads are not usable (physical trigger method is lost). Second Example 00:30:35 Second Example: Transnational Organized Crime (Narco Cartels, MS-13, Triads, etc). 00:32:00 Safe Havens (no-go-areas) by MS-13 and Al-Qaeda: low level of immunity and souvereignity. 00:35:35 Narco-Terrorism: Cooperations between terrorist organizations and pure criminal organizations. 00:36:50 Iran-Contra (Freedom Fighter VS Terrorist). 00:37:47 A scared population is more likely to use drugs. 00:38:25 Big criminal organizations undermine the state institutions: corruption, blackmail, threats. 00:39:35 Loyalty and Trust within Institutions is undermined, and thus the political head becomes just an illusion of power (Mexico, Miami in the 80s, etc). Third Example 00:37:47 Third Example: Bioterrorism. 00:43:12 CRISPR sequencing, “build your own smallpox”. 00:44:00 Non-state actors: Aum Shinrikyo (Aleph) and Tokyo Subway Attacks (Sarin Gas). 00:46:19 2001 Anthrax Attacks in the US. 00:47:16 Rumor: Wuhan might be a targeted virus attack, but it’s hard and too early to tell. 00:48:14 For states: bioweapons would also attack own citizens, unlimited transmission, contagion risks high (better: easy to contain, infectious chain are short and unstable). 00:49:30 Terrorists: cannot attach threats or demands, since viruses are non-attributable. Exceptions: doomsday sects, radical environmentalists. Wrap-Up Section I 00:50:47 Wrap-Up first Part: Crimes That Matter. All are technology supported crimes. 00:51:33 Transnational organized crime is a late development (cheap travels, cheap organization and management technologies, cheap communication), also a part of globalization. 00:52:49 Technological developments are supporting two classes of criminals: random criminals, child pornography. 00:53:05 Random Criminal: uses technology to amplyfy his effect. 00:53:25 Child Pornography: digital cameras and internet made it really problematic, because it became cheap and easy (all you need is a mobile phone). Section II Dystopian Side Cybercrime, Robotic Warfare, Omniviolence 00:56:38 Skimming: copying credit cards, via cheap tech from the darknet and Aliexpress. 00:58:35 Issue of non-attribution in Cybercrime: you don’t have to be very smart, you randomly target victims, plus degree of seperation (=every idiot can become a phisher). 00:59:34 High IQ cyber-criminals plus tech: bigger and much more efficient organizations are possible (Paul LeRoux). 01:01:10 Strategic thinking criminals: do no make random mistakes, access to cheap and easy components (Shenzhen), low morals, power-hungry individuals. 01:03:00 Omniviolence: Killer to killed persons ratio increases, systemic risks to countries, maybe entire planet (Example: nuclear and bio weapons). 01:04:22 Robotic warfare: Drones plus biometrics. 01:06:00 The State and Omniviolence: Intelligence services already working on it. Threat becomes increasingly realistic, while not being trivial to deal with, or understand. Thing that is most likely to shape the future. 01:07:19 Realistic scenario by now: Quadrocopter drones, single shot explosive inside, plus facial recognition (ESP32 development kit). 01:08:55 Ground based autonomous vehicles is in the future of next generation: DJi RoboMaster-s1, educational toy for children, available today. Already has face and object recognition, autonomy features. 01:10:21 Next 5-10 years: First autonomous robot school killing is realistic. 01:10:38 There happen to be people out there, who are relatively smart, and there happens to be a huge technological toolbox to select from. Given it enough intelligence, and enough energy, drive, and goals, you can be really dangerous these days. 01:11:10 Book: “Gefährliche Menschen (Dangerous Humans)” near-future dystopian world where the whole system is focussed on preventing omniviolence. 01:12:47 State tries to counteract omniviolence and others by regulating technology. Drugs and Butterflies 01:13:07 How can you control potentially dangerous people? 01:13:50 The tech industry and self-medicating with legal and illegal drugs, and an unrealistic dream. 01:15:38 Advertisement of drugs as “rebellious”. Drugs being marketed as rebellion,… (they) don’t help you to become an actual rebel, and actually being effective. 01:16:24 Academia: The clever people trap, researching butterflies (you are being seen and heard, aurelians and lepidopterists, and your work matters). Preventive detention 01:17:47 Preventive detention. “If I lock this person up, I can prevent crime in the future.” 01:19:05 Psychiatric detention, used to silence people and put them away (Gustl Mollath). 01:20:40 New preventive detention laws: limiting personal liberty to prevent crimes? Social and economic consequences. Surveillance, Cryptography, and Regulations 01:21:50 Surveillance is everywhere. 01:22:33 Growth of surveillance: Commercial interest, collecting data, nudging. 01:22:50 Using surveillance data for AI training, run through neural networks (health: predict illnesses), can also be used to predict behavior. 01:24:05 Nation-States surveil the shit out of everything to increase their security status (international trend). 01:24:17 New proposals for regulation, or ban, of face-recognition (EU, some US states). 01:25:00 Limitations of face-recognition: black people with dark skin. AI training sets are mostly light-skinned. 01:26:25 Why states might be open to proposals: Accusations of racial bias, easy thing to give up (it’s commercialized already, see ClearView AI). 01:27:17 Face Recognition Apps (Russia: FindFace App), Face Recognition Spiders (原谅宝官方 yuanliang bao guanfang, https://pornstarbyface.com/, https://deepmindy.com/) 01:28:13 Navigate the tech landscape through regulations: example drone sector. 01:31:00 Regulating cryptography: access to good cryptography for average joe is hard. 01:31:22 Even for relatively smart and motivated people, … implementing cryptographic systems by people who are not specialized in that, usually goes wrong. It’s really hard to build secure cryptographic software, even with libraries out there, etc. 01:33:20 Regulations of sales controls: example chemicals, pharmarcies. 01:34:00 State will increase security in the future by regulating technology (regulating both components and knowledge). 01:34:50 Dystopian Vision, “black ball events”: Omniviolence will be prevented by total surveillance combined with AI. (Bostrom: Vulnerable World Paper) 01:36:04 Anomaly detection: preventing anyone from building potentially threatening tech, without actually understanding or knowing what this tech is. 01:36:59 Securocrat’s decisions are based on body-count and not on life quality. 01:37:20 Some cattle farmer talk: Consume, pay taxes, and put your VR goggles on. 01:40:10 Preventing people who are too intelligent, too creative, from getting anywhere in life. 01:41:00 Cambridge Analytics for the Masses, Psychography: limit access, social scoring systems (today mostly reactive). 01:42:20 Predictive Technologies: sentencing rules in US. 01:43:20 Creativity problem: detect outliers, categorize in good or bad, adjust access to technology. (Ender’s Game pilots) 01:44:44 Already using licensing by personality: bank accounts, gun licenses. Where does the reliability score come from? Future might be more automated. 01:46:50 Future: Same thing, but advanced by modern technology. 01:47:08 Reactive scores, predicitive regulation: lawyers, MDs, pilot and weapon licenses. If you have a lot of points, they won’t give you the license. 01:47:32 e-Government: maybe no human judgement in the future needed. 01:49:00 Looking at the Chinese petri dish: since Wuhan epidemic, deploying surveillance is cranked up. 01:50:37 Data Analysis, Laboratory for Surveillance: Locking down neighborhoods, limit travel within city, using drones, using CCTV cameras to check masks and temperature, booking details, location tracking, etc. 01:55:00 Wuhan as a dystopian prison: at least as frightening as the pandemic. 01:56:03 Control ratio: the amount of people you need to control a huge population is going down. 01:56:20 Conflict Turkey-Syria, Idlib region: areal control by grenade launchers, automatically engaged. 01:58:48 South Korea Border Patrol Bots: automated targeting (Sentry SGR-A1, Hankook Mirae Method-2?) 01:59:33 UAV Drones: autonomous suicide drones, waiting for target or flying into target. 02:00:09 Germany declared AI a “critical defense technology” = weapon technology for killing people. Section III Less Dystopian Side 02:01:44 Donation Report 02:04:25 Forum/ BBS: Async.pre Frank and Smuggler answering your questions! 02:05:49 Question Section 02:05:57 Forum: How would the average aspiring second-realmer get their nym used in legal documents or at their work place? Is that a realistic goal? 02:14:00 Forum: I’d really like to see you guys cover the art of clandestine purchasing. For example, do 3D printers have hidden tracking codes like paper printers? Discussing details on aquiring something like this with a pre-paid credit card and how to ship it to a non-attributate address would be cool. 02:15:35 Forum: One Issue that I always find very hard is receiving shipments by mail. Not necessarily very illegal items, but maybe items you just don’t want to receive at an attributable adress and that are larger than what fits in a standard letterbox. How to receive things in another name and where with the least amount of trouble and risk? 02:20:25 Forum: How to beat facial recognition during drop-operations and otherwise? What methods are effective? How often worn outside the TAZ? 02:23:25 Twitter: How to go into darknet? Virtual box and TOR? Which OS? 02:25:27 Twitter: In terms of cyber-warfare, which state (or state proxy) has the most tactical technical capacity for attacks and defense? 02:33:55 Thoughts on accelerationism? 02:37:14 Mail: I find howtovanish.com very helpful, even though it is outdated and US-centric. Are there more current and EU-centric versions of the topic, how can I make my life as anonymous as possible? Minimum Wage Report 02:45:58 Minimum Wage Report Reading Recommendations “The Future of Violence” by Benjamin Wittes & Gabriella Blum. ISBN 978-0-465-05670-5 Vulnerable World Hypothesis Slaughterbots Superintelligence and the Future of Governance: On Prioritizing the Control Problem at the End of History DJI Robomaster S1 Gefaehrliche Menschen The Gustl Mollath Case Project about facial recognition + porn + social media: done in May 2019 by 将记忆深埋 interview, partially translated article in Chinese Ender’s Game Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. 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We talk about security and the current state of the security system (police, intelligence services, and the military). Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Show Notes What is security 00:02:05 What is security: Security VS Safety. Security: unexpected events that go back to an actor, Safety: maintaining a status. 00:07:20 Entropy: things decay. Security is not a natural state, but must be maintained. 00:09:10 Evil people: psychpaths, predators. 00:09:50 Circumstances: acting irrationally. 00:10:25 Hackers: Red Hats, joy of overcoming security systems. 00:11:11 WASP Privilege: no exposure to threats, stuff works most of the time, no incentive to learn about security. Systems 00:12:29 High trust society VS low trust society: Low trust comes with high cost and less functional societies. 00:16:16 Symptoms of societies with low trust: different environments are what make them. 00:16:50 Universal core values of humans: self-preservation, protecting family and friends, private zones, no drama. 00:18:05 High trust society needs maintenance, will get eroded quickly by few “bad actors”. 00:19:05 How can you turn a low security, low trust environment into a high security, high trust environment? Parallel developments also possible: high security, low trust societies. 00:19:40 Trust builds from history of interactions. 00:20:13 To change, bad memories must die (social memory). See Thomas Kuhn (1962): The Structure of Scientific Revolutions 00:22:10 Western states want to make people dependent on security (stateism) and increase state control. Thus, individuals externalize security, and state is presented as the White Knight. 00:25:15 Are we being played/gamed/manipulated by the state and state actors? 00:27:38 Just doing our jobs. 00:29:50 Machiavellianism: concepts how states can work. 00:31:20 Hegelian concepts: totalist and collectivist states and politics. 00:33:20 Look at systemic issues. Institutions 00:33:30 Inspecting institutions: 1) Police. 00:39:00 Policemen’s selection bias: everyone is a potential criminal or at least a suspect. 00:40:20 Documentation work of police activity by example of firing weapons. 00:42:30 Bureaucracy can work. 00:47:30 Police in uniform VS civilian police: both are for peace preservation. 00:48:00 Military is directed outwards. 00:49:00 Carl von Clausewitz: war is the extension of politics [original: war is the continuation of politics by other means]. 00:49:39 Border guards are the middle layer between military and police (control of territorial boundaries VS maintaining territorial integrity VS maintain security within the borders). Intelligence services 00:50:00 Intelligence services: Classification: Intelligence service for proper and covert action 00:51:00 Similarities and differences to Journalism: Are intelligence services also ad-driven? 00:51:48 Intelligence Agencies report only news that can be actionable. 00:53:40 Domestic and Foreign Intelligence Services. 00:54:20 Objective reporting: Not mission driven, but report driven. 00:54:41 Two classes of intelligence services: Report requests coming out of intelligence circle, or mission driven services (Bundesverfassungsschutz, for example). 00:56:30 FBI: police organization plus intelligence aspect. 00:57:05 Intelligence services are about information, other services are about action. 00:57:40 Staatsschutz and German Intelligence: police is for prevent and investigate crimes. 00:59:05 Forensics is for police, subversive or maybe illegal actions are for intelligence work. In Germany, it’s clearly seperated; in USA, not so much. 01:02:15 CIA: Considered as Intelligence Agency. Gather information is their mandate, not catch criminals. 01:05:10 Sending in intelligence to change things: huge toolkit to act available. 01:05:50 Intelligence and Military Covert Actions are not Security, but political action. However, it‘s a security issue for the other side. International organisations 01:06:47 International Security Organizations (Europol, Interpol). No police powers, limited investigation powers. 01:08:45 Working groups: example SIS (communicating warrants in EU). 01:09:58 Organizations: example Le Circle (high-ranking intelligence chiefs), Munich Security Forum (conference with high-level security chiefs). 01:15:00 Why is their image so skewed in the public? (The „Spy Story“) 01:18:00 Rubicon Series (2010) 01:19:25 CSI Series (2000) - all about forensic analysis of crime scenes, but in reality it‘s not the dominant part, only few questions can be answered. 01:21:28 Playbook crime following the standard model VS outliers. 01:22:55 Being secretive about methods means keeping the advantage from opponents: intelligence agencies VS intelligence agencies from other countries; police VS criminals. 01:23:40 Sources 1) Scientific Fields: Criminalistics, Criminology. (Education Material for people that train police, manuals and coursework can be brought on Amazon, also check out libraries). 01:25:34 Sources 2) Reports: Indictments, Warrants (a lot are public, depending on country). Caveat: contains successes and legal processes only. 01:27:08 Sources 3) Private Conversation with Policemen, Investigators, Intelligence People to get a more accurate picture about their work. Public private partnerships 01:29:39 Private Security Services. 01:30:45 Cybercrime Investigations: Takedown of Cyberpunker 2 (200 servers in a German bunker). 01:32:25 Private Companies helping the police in Cybercrime Investigation. 01:32:40 Analyzing digital evidence: Given to a lab from a private company. (Cyberforensics, not done by police) 01:34:18 White-Collar Crime: Fraud, Commercial Fraud cases etc. Corporate Investigators for hire: Forensic Accountants, etc. (Police work only for special investigator power, or force powers.) 01:37:10 Corporations can use private security services when police are bound legally (for example, in bribing), then sanatize the data and give it to the police. 01:41:28 Informal communication lines… like in every other industry. (But with special privileges: Police, Military, Intelligence) 01:43:04 Presumably Cardinal Richelieu: „If you give me (three, or two) six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find (seven reasons) something in them which will hang him.“, this quote might be originated by memorialist Françoise Bertraut de Motteville (1723), and was later paraphrased. 01:44:46 Real-life cases have a lot of ambiguity going on. It‘s a work of probabilities, not a binary process. 01:45:45 Can you cover up a crime as a non-corrupt policeman? 01:46:50 Private Security Services exploit the ambiguity of policework (someone bringing you from outside a full case, only verification needed, negative evidence often gets lost). 01:48:21 Political Aspect: which crimes are deemed important? 01:49:20 Lobbying and capital power: Intellectual Property Crimes. 01:50:44 Industry identifies perpretators and delivers them to police. 01:50:58 Filesharing: Machine investigating and filing reports, backchanneling, automated sting operation (example, IP-Echelon). 01:56:08 Private Agencies provide: Analysis of evidence, production of leads, investigation. 01:56:26 Money Laundering: not based on investigative results, but on information provided by for example NGOs (example, Transparency International). 01:59:28 Chain Analysis Companies produce risk scores for Cryptocurrency Adresses (public keys). 02:01:05 Face recognition to identify suspects: example, Clearview AI (finding people software) 02:02:20 Police relies on outside, unchecked influence: Private Actors (non-illegmitate). Private Intelligence 02:03:25 Recap of Episode: What outside input is influencing the police Policy definition Intelligence field 02:04:22 Tax crimes: special investigators who actively try to find criminals. 02:04:39 Organized Crime: preventitive task of police (dismantling organizations, Staatsschutz). 02:05:35 Civil Disobedience: infiltration by police and private companies. 02:07:00 Private Security: 3 categories private intelligence services private security services private military contractors. 02:09:38 Private Intelligence is information gathering. 02:09:53 Private Intelligence VS corporate espionage. 02:11:11 First example. 02:15:00 Why is there so much cheap spy tech for sale? 02:19:53 Second example: credit suisse incident. 02:21:12 Some serious health concerns for the operators and middlemen (in-betweens). 02:24:05 Birds of a feather flock together: blurry lines of corporate, state, and private decision makers (different sides of the law). 02:26:29 Book/Thesis: Stephan Blancke (2011): Geheimdienstliche Aktivitäten nicht-staatlicher Akteure (private intelligence activities by non-state actors) 02:27:11 Private inflitrators, informants and agent provocateurs. 02:28:10 Extinction rebellion and very active activists. 02:30:30 Capture bounties. 02:32:45 A quiet business: private infiltration intelligence services (IMSI-catchers) are often ex police, ex military etc. 02:34:40 Sharing information services between intelligence: 4 eyes, 14 eyes. 02:38:05 HCPP and game theory: will the cryptoanarchists ever get something done? 02:39:00 Today’s security system is like antique byzantine, easy to understand from outside, inside not easy to understand- even for the players themselves. 02:40:25 Ross Ulbricht and Silk Road made agents run with money—is it the only case, only in this direction? 02:42:00 State systems’ marketing: “protect and serve” by angels? But, ACAB is also wrong. 02:45:55 Take personal responsibility for own security. Outlook 02:48:40 Developments/outlook: technologies that make globalization possible, organizational technologies, reporting and communication. 02:50:25 Old days: reporting was sampling (today: big data, AI). 02:51:00 New incentive structures: financial markets. Old: financial markets were not global, slow. Today: Global financial markets mean indirect profit from activities like war, markets can be complex, distributed, longer reach. 02:52:50 Even dumb criminals can use smart technologies (Dropgangs). 02:54:00 The mastermind/ intelligent criminals VS random criminals: attribution becomes problematic (witness problem, no review pointers). 02:57:24 Book: Evan Ratliff (2019): The Mastermind. Drugs. Empire. Murder. Betrayal. (Paul LeRoux) Wrap up 03:00:59 Donation Report Reading Recommendations Thomas Kuhn (1962): The Structure of Scientific Revolutions Machiavelli Hegel Carl von Clausewitz Rubicon Series (2010) Stephan Blancke (2011): Geheimdienstliche Aktivitäten nicht-staatlicher Akteure (private intelligence activities by non-state actors) Evan Ratliff (2019): The Mastermind. Drugs. Empire. Murder. Betrayal. (Paul LeRoux) Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

In this episode we talk about Dropgangs, lock boxes, dead drops, drone mix networks, and sneakernet. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Links Article Dropgangs. Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Snail mail Bitstream Scanbox #06965 Ehrenbergstr. 16a 10245 Berlin Germany Please send us feedback letters, postcards, and interesting books. You can also send us your dirty fiat by cash in the mail! We take all currencies. Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

In this episode we talk about Temporary Autonomous Zones, containers, the OODA loop and reply to listener questions. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Links Book The Second Realm. Talk on Temporary Autonomous Zones and Shipping Containers. Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

In this episode we talk about “The Second Realm”: Is more liberty possible? Parallel systems, conflict management, temporary autonomous zones, and The Sovereign Individual. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Links Book The Second Realm. Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

In this episode we talk about “What is Cryptoanarchy?": We cover a definition of cryptoanarchy, anonymous messaging, the cryptoanarchy technology pyramid, an alternative vision for the future, and many more topics. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Links Talk on The Project of Cryptoanarchy. Talk on Dehumanizing Technology. Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

In this episode we introduce the Cypherpunk Bitstream podcast. Subscribe Pocket Casts Spotify Stitcher Apple Podcasts Overcast Google Podcasts PlayerFM YouTube Discuss We’re on bbs.anarplex.net with our own board to discuss! Hosts Smuggler (Twitter) Frank Braun (Twitter) Contact Email: bitstream@taz0.org PGP fingerprint: 1C4A EFDB 8783 6614 C54D E230 2500 7933 D85F 2119 (key) Support Please support Cypherpunk Bitstream by donating to: Bitcoin: 38mzCtXHjgq6RusYQsFy2TQiLvLK7vN5JF Bitcoin Cash: qrpwhtsag0u4rnuam9a5vwmqnly96znas5f5txjc35 Decred: Dsi9j7SdwZrHtCfUmxTNgpVGx2YAboZc7ve Monero: 87UPx5sBS6g6wTvyRqqSMfFM6DzfHCPtFE25VC62vfohZVv4RRNcwif1XAPWTF27U1BKZEsrEXzDr6bMnGoTcThATvamE73 Zcash: t1ewcXqQ9Uog5gMYjeeV46WiWB5j2SwD9Sv

Errorbeauty - Mix for Modulations Bulgarian born, London-Berlin based Errorbeauty has been meticulously piecing together her impressive catalog of releases since beginning Djing back in 2003. A professional flute musician by way of background, she gradually became drawn to electronic music's intricately textured soundscapes - more specifically the broken, aggressive shades of Detroit Electro. In 2012 she moved to London where she started her musical journey as a producer, meeting many artists whose music she's been collecting for ages, and rapidly appeared on the scene playing alongside Plaid, Mr Switch (4 times DMC World champion), Andrea Parker, ADJ, Bitstream, Flint Kids to name a few. Errorbeauty's work continues to evolve and offers listeners a distinct reflection of Motor City's relationship with the genre whilst demonstrating her own unique perspective of Electro, which brought her twice to the legendary Tresor Club for Berlin Atonal. Earlier this year she has performed at Berlin's underground well-respected event series Skizze in OHM as well as Bold, Exquisite Berlin and Disobedient Circumstance at Suicide Circus Berlin where she proudly became one of the residents in the club this year. Together with XOR12, she recently launched the new electro/techno record label Arkada Records. The first EP featuring T15DM and Errobeauty herself was released on July 15th this year. Coming next is the second EP on her label Arkada Records which has plans to be released on 15th of April. http://arkadarecords.com https://soundcloud.com/errorbeauty Tracklist: 1. Point 7 - Remember Now 2. Umwelt - Endless Blackness 3. Vulkanski - Red Dinner 4. Pascal Hetzel - Reformation 5. ADJ - Future 6. Phoenecia - Odd Job (Get Fresh) 7. Zeta Reticula - Z.E.T.A 8. Maelstrom - Detection 9. I.B.M - Devastate The Planet 10. Kastil & I-Real - Black Birds All Over 11. UVB - Fire of Life 12. Huren Presents - Rituel Sonore 13. Supreme Ja - The Darkside 14. Rogue Frequency - Projectile 15. MicroControlUnit - Escape 16. Serge Geyzel - In Between 17. Scanone - Vox 8

12pm-1pm EST 5pm-6pm BST 9am-10am PDT bombshellradio.comPLAYING TRACKS BYPaolo Tarsi, Elektric Music, Anthony Rother, Lassigue Bendthaus, Carl A. Finlow and more.#electronica ,#electropop, #electronica/dance, # techno ,#electroindustrialHYPNOTICA ELECTRONICA Selected & Mixed by Mat Mckenzie Show 55 On Artefaktor Radio 26/03/19Almost 40 Years of Electronic Music obsession, from the early Pioneers to the Present day, Tuesdays every fortnight 8Pm GMT on Artefaktor Radio & repeated on Bombshell Radio CanadaOn this Show...#KRAFTWERK Fans Prepare to Beam yourself into the Future...100% Crisp ELECTRO Computer Beats from some of the Best names in the Business; Killer Tracks, Remixes + a BRAND NEW Remix by an Ex-Kraftwerk Member :-)#Electronic #Electro #TechnoPop #Kraftwerk #KarlBartos #FernandoAbrantes #MachineMusicPlaying Tracks by Anthony Rother, Carl A. Finlow, BITSTREAM & MoreFollow Me on Twitter :-) @matmckenzie

PARTICIPANTS: DUSTIN, JASON, WILL & VERN SHOW NOTES: Somalian Pirates Beam native support coming to Windows 10. Dolby Atmos, Bitstream, DTS:X and more coming to Xbox One. Analyst predicts disappointing Titanfall 2 sales.

PARTICIPANTS: DUSTIN, JASON, WILL & VERN SHOW NOTES: Somalian Pirates Beam native support coming to Windows 10. Dolby Atmos, Bitstream, DTS:X and more coming to Xbox One. Analyst predicts disappointing Titanfall 2 sales.

Antonio Gala nació en Ciudad Real 1930 aunque pasó su infancia en Córdoba y se siente cordobés. A los 14 años dio su primera conferencia en el Círculo de la Amistad, es licenciado en Derecho, Filosofía y Letras, Ciencias Políticas y Económicas pero Gala, es el auténtico Gala, siempre cuando escribe. Ganador del Premio Planeta en 1990 por su novela El manuscrito carmesí y del Premio Quijote de Honor 2011 a toda una vida el escritor creó la Fundación Antonio Gala para Creadores Jóvenes, dedicada a apoyar y becar la labor de artistas jóvenes.Recuperamos esta entrevista realizada en 2002 por Iñaki Gabilondo junto con Javier Rioyo para el programa Hoy por Hoy. El propio Gabilondo introduce el audio: "Es la última entrevista que hice a Antonio Gala, era el mes de abril del año 2002 y acababa de publicar su libro Los invitados al jardín. Años atrás había tenido ocasión de hablar con él con motivo de otros trabajos como, por ejemplo, Poemas de amor en el año 97 o Las afueras de dios en el año 99. En este año, en la entrevista que vamos a ofrecer, Gala nos habla de 32 historias. 32 historias todas ellas relacionadas con el amor, o el desamor. Y también con la muerte que es una constante en su vida y en este libro. Antonio Gala, con su habitual sentido del humor, con su fina ironía, nos habla del amor a través de los tiempos. Nos habla del ser humano, de sus contradicciones, de sus rarezas, de sus particularidades. Antonio Gala".

Antonio Gala nació en Ciudad Real 1930 aunque pasó su infancia en Córdoba y se siente cordobés. A los 14 años dio su primera conferencia en el Círculo de la Amistad, es licenciado en Derecho, Filosofía y Letras, Ciencias Políticas y Económicas pero Gala, es el auténtico Gala, siempre cuando escribe. Ganador del Premio Planeta en 1990 por su novela El manuscrito carmesí y del Premio Quijote de Honor 2011 a toda una vida el escritor creó la Fundación Antonio Gala para Creadores Jóvenes, dedicada a apoyar y becar la labor de artistas jóvenes.Recuperamos esta entrevista realizada en 2002 por Iñaki Gabilondo junto con Javier Rioyo para el programa Hoy por Hoy. El propio Gabilondo introduce el audio: "Es la última entrevista que hice a Antonio Gala, era el mes de abril del año 2002 y acababa de publicar su libro Los invitados al jardín. Años atrás había tenido ocasión de hablar con él con motivo de otros trabajos como, por ejemplo, Poemas de amor en el año 97 o Las afueras de dios en el año 99. En este año, en la entrevista que vamos a ofrecer, Gala nos habla de 32 historias. 32 historias todas ellas relacionadas con el amor, o el desamor. Y también con la muerte que es una constante en su vida y en este libro. Antonio Gala, con su habitual sentido del humor, con su fina ironía, nos habla del amor a través de los tiempos. Nos habla del ser humano, de sus contradicciones, de sus rarezas, de sus particularidades. Antonio Gala".

Enter a sonic journey that is guided by the sounds of Emeralds, brand new music from Björk, Global Communication mixing Lamb, the future sounds of Tokyo courtesy of 2 8 1 4, classics from Oval and Jan Jelinek, pensive beats from the Thought Universe, more from Downliners Sekt, and some “Radiotherapy” from Bitstream. More along the way […]

Today, software companies such as SAP and Taleo, business information providers such as LexisNexis and consulting firms such as Palladium Group have moved much of their customer interactions to online communities they have built for their customers. While they are still in their early stages, these online communities are providing these enterprises with a competitive advantage: the ability to get much closer and become more valuable to customers every day, around the clock. That’s why LinkedIn marketing expert Kristina Jaramillo invited Vanessa DiMauro. founder and CEO of Leader Networks – a research and strategy consulting company that helps organizations succeed in social business and B2B online community building – to  join her on the B2B Marketing Insider’s Radio Show.  Vanessa’s bringing to our guests knowledge and expertise from over 15 years experience in social business leadership positions at Cambridge Technology Partners, Computerworld, Bitstream and TERC. You’ll learn how  she has founded and ran numerous online communities, and has developed award winning social business strategies for some of the largest and most influential companies in the world. Listen to this radio show interview with Vanessa DiMauro - then check out our other community building interviews at http://www.b2bmarketingradioshow.com

Today, software companies such as SAP and Taleo, business information providers such as LexisNexis and consulting firms such as Palladium Group have moved much of their customer interactions to online communities they have built for their customers. While they are still in their early stages, these online communities are providing these enterprises with a competitive advantage: the ability to get much closer and become more valuable to customers every day, around the clock. That’s why LinkedIn marketing expert Kristina Jaramillo invited Vanessa DiMauro. founder and CEO of Leader Networks – a research and strategy consulting company that helps organizations succeed in social business and B2B online community building – to  join her on the B2B Marketing Insider’s Radio Show.  Vanessa’s bringing to our guests knowledge and expertise from over 15 years experience in social business leadership positions at Cambridge Technology Partners, Computerworld, Bitstream and TERC. You’ll learn how  she has founded and ran numerous online communities, and has developed award winning social business strategies for some of the largest and most influential companies in the world. Listen to this radio show interview with Vanessa DiMauro - then check out our other community building interviews at http://www.b2bmarketingradioshow.com

More alphabetical rock-a-billy triplets

David Berlow entered the type industry in 1978 as a designer for the respected Mergenthaler, Linotype, Stempel, and Haas type foundries. He joined the newly formed digital type supplier Bitstream in 1982 and in 1989 founded The Font Bureau, with Roger Black. David gives us an insight in his working methods. How does he start making a new typeface? Mostly it’s listening from his part and figuring out what it is people are actually saying. We also talk about things he learned along the way, like being a good manager. We wonder how often he rejects new proposals or submissions for typefaces? And his vision on coming trends in type design. Recorded at the ATypI 2010 conference in Dublin, Ireland. The Font Bureau :: Web Type :: Ready Media :: Fonts in Use :: David Berlow WWWord interview :: David Berlow twitter :: File Download (38:21 min / 53 MB)

Cagey House: "The Summer Pump" Hejira: "I Do But Do You" Bitstream Dream: "Rising Sun" Chocolate Covered High Tops: "Far Too Soon" Black Mountain: "Druganaut" Young And Sexy: "Curious Organ" Cowboy Junkies: "Anniversary Song (Live)" email: transpondency@telus.net voicemail: 206-202-5191 myspace: transpondency