Podcasts about Union Square Cafe

This is a Vintage Selection from 2007The ConversationThe Restaurant Guys are thrilled to host master restaurateur Danny Meyer to discuss his new book and the Guys' favorite restaurants.  Check out the secret to his success across multiple venues. The Inside TrackThe Guys have the inside scoop of what it's like to work for Danny Meyer and his organization as they have more than a few friends who have done so for years. They know that the Union Square Hospitality Group practices this "radical" form of hospitality starting with their team members.  BioDanny Meyer opened his first restaurant Union Square Cafe in 1985 at the age of 27. Thirty years later, Danny's Union Square Hospitality Group (USHG) comprises some of New York's most acclaimed restaurants, including Gramercy Tavern, The Modern, Maialino, and more. Danny and USHG founded Shake Shack, the modern-day “roadside” burger restaurant, in 2015. He has written several books notably The Union Square Cookbook co-authored with Chef Michael Romano and Setting the Table.Meyer has been generously recognized including the 2017 Julia Child Award, the 2015 TIME 100 “Most Influential People” list.  USHG's restaurants and individuals have won an unprecedented 28 James Beard Awards, including Meyer accepting Outstanding Restaurateur (2005) and Who's Who of Food and Beverage in America (1996). InfoDanny Meyer's bookSetting the Table: The Transforming Power of Hospitality in BusinessOur SponsorsThe Heldrich Hotel & Conference Centerhttps://www.theheldrich.com/Magyar Bankhttps://www.magbank.com/Withum Accountinghttps://www.withum.com/Our PlacesStage Left Steakhttps://www.stageleft.com/Catherine Lombardi Restauranthttps://www.catherinelombardi.com/Stage Left Wineshophttps://www.stageleftwineshop.com/Reach out to The Restaurant GuysTo hear more about food, wine and the finer things in life:https://www.instagram.com/restaurantguyspodcast/https://www.facebook.com/restaurantguyshttps://www.restaurantguyspodcast.com/

At 27, long before he gained acclaim as the restaurateur behind Shake Shack and Gramercy Tavern, Danny Meyer launched his first venture, Union Square Cafe. More than 20 James Beard Foundation awards later, Danny shares the strategies and insights that fueled his restaurant empire. He and Adam discuss how to build a culture of excellence and care, how to hire people who treat others well, and how to bring values to life. Danny is the author of the New York Times bestseller Setting the Table.Transcripts for ReThinking are available at go.ted.com/RWAGscripts

At 27, long before he gained acclaim as the restaurateur behind Shake Shack and Gramercy Tavern, Danny Meyer launched his first venture, Union Square Cafe. More than 20 James Beard Foundation awards later, Danny shares the strategies and insights that fueled his restaurant empire. He and Adam discuss how to build a culture of excellence and care, how to hire people who treat others well, and how to bring values to life. Danny is the author of the New York Times bestseller Setting the Table.Transcripts for ReThinking are available at go.ted.com/RWAGscripts

“The food system is broken. There's no way around it… But can you make the best choice you can make with what's in front of you?” —Jamie Poe    The traditional camping aisle has long been due for an overhaul. Growing consciousness now allows us to see outdoor adventure not just as an escape, but as an extension of our values. We seek harmony with nature through mindful gear, sustainable practices, and nutrition in tune with the landscape.     Into this space have stepped innovators who understand the modern outdoors person. Poe&Co. is a catering and food products company founded by chefs and partners Jamie Poe and Jayson Poe. Driven by their passions for local, seasonal cuisine and the outdoors, they have established a thriving catering business while launching a line of plant-based camping meals.   Listen in Justine and Jamie also talk about how bootstrapping allows creative control over the business, how strong partnerships require balancing visionary and operational roles, why new ventures require flexibility, the challenges of choosing sustainable packaging, and the importance of supporting local economies and small businesses, as well as consulting with experts to improve products. Meet Jamie:  Originally from Los Angeles, Jamie Poe attended The Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, New York. After graduating in 2005, she moved to New York City and cooked at Danny Meyer's Union Square Cafe and Michelin-starred Gramercy Tavern. Since then, Poe has worked as a Private Chef in New York City, The Hamptons, Los Angeles, Silicon Valley, and Santa Barbara. Jamie also managed a boutique olive oil company in Napa Valley and has contributed to multiple cookbooks and online publications.   WebsiteFacebook Instagram TikTok Pinterest Connect with NextGen Purpose: Website Facebook Instagram  LinkedIn YouTube Episode Highlights: 04:38 Challenges of Building a Catering Company 08:21 Partnership and Division of Responsibilities 14:23 Making It Healthy and Accessible 18:33 Lessons in Launching a New Food Product 22:39 Packaging Focused on Sustainability  26:47 Catering with Plant-Based Options     

Chip Wade is the CEO of USHG, founded by Shake Shack founder Danny Meyer. Known for restaurants like Gramercy Tavern and Union Square Cafe, USHG essentially runs the restaurant world. Chip's background of leaving a small, rural town to make it in the restaurant industry is nothing short of remarkable.  Connect with Alexa below: THE PERSONAL BRAND E-COURSE IS LIVE! Get it here! Sponsor this show at https://www.passionfroot.me/alexa-curtis Subscribe to Stay Fearless or Die Trying here.  BUY A MEDIA LIST OR MEDIA KIT HERE! 

This week, we explore a delightful mix of lifestyle events, from vineyards to fiber for sensitive stomachs, and even tried out some invigorating workouts. 1. Vineyard Revelations: Our adventure began with an amazing lunch at Union Square Cafe in New York City, where we learned about the vineyards and wines from Loudon County, Virginia. Did you know that there are nearly 50 wineries located just a short distance from Washington, D.C.? The region is a growing hotspot for wine enthusiasts, and we savored every sip. 2. Gut Health and Fiber Boost: Next, we headed to Clean Market for an afternoon of wellness. There, I experienced a gut health IV trip and discovered Hilma's new product: “Daily Fiber and Digestive Enzymes.” Shockingly, nearly 95% of Americans don't get enough fiber daily! Hilma's plant-based prebiotic fiber powder aims to change that, providing six grams of gentle fiber to support digestion without the discomfort. Plus, it's sugar-free and tastes great in smoothies. 3. Skincare Serenity: No week is complete without skincare updates! MZ Skin's “Skin Calming Range” caught my attention. Designed for sensitive and redness-prone skin, this collection includes the soothing “Calming Rescue Serum.” With ingredients like pro-vitamin D3, red sage root, and hydrating prebiotic extract, it's a must-try for maintaining radiant skin. 4. Workouts Galore: Let's get physical! I dived into three diverse workouts: Level Up with Layla: Circuit training with TRX, battle ropes, resistance bands, and weights. Layla emphasizes agility and mobility alongside muscle building. Jazzercise: A dance-infused workout that feels like a party! It's a global sensation, and I had a blast trying out the cardio sculpt class. P Volve: Low-impact exercises to sculpt and tone. Jennifer Aniston approves, and the ever-changing routines keep me on my toes. 5. Pre-Trip Beauty Essentials: As I prepare for my Mediterranean adventure, I've got beauty appointments lined up: Nails: A pedicure for pampered feet and press-on manicures for chic hands. Hair Care: Freshly touched-up color and roots ensure confidence throughout the trip. Facial Hydration: A pre-trip facial keeps my skin glowing and ready for any climate. Remember, sun protection matters! Wallaroo's wide-brim hats, celebrating 25 years of sun safety, shield our skin from harmful UV rays. Incorporate sun protection into your daily routine—grab that hat by the door! Stay tuned for insightful conversations and expert advice to elevate your skincare routine, fashion game, and travel experiences!  Subscribe to 'What's Your Skincare Routine? with LeAura Luciano' on your favorite podcast platform to stay updated on future episodes.  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Restaurateur Danny Meyer opened Union Square Cafe and Gramercy Tavern in New York more than 30 years ago and proved values matter. One could not only treat staff with the respect they deserve, but make customers happy. Happier, as they say, when they leave than when they arrived. Danny then launched Shake Shack in 2001, a hotdog stand in Madison Park. The rest, as they say, is history. Today, when Ruthie has a question about fair policies for the people who work with her or how to think about expanding or contracting The River Cafe, or whether it would be possible to do exchanges with their best chefs, Danny is the person she calls.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our guest this week has a passion for creating restaurants that redefine the dining experience. With the innate ability to take a concept and turn it into reality, she drives innovation in the industry. Welcome to the show, Senior Director of Design & Concept Development at Union Square Events, Jessica Gidari!Dan Ryan hosts Jessica to delve into her approach to creating unique restaurant experiences and her understanding of true hospitality. Jessica shares the importance of collecting the dots, discusses her experiences with Union Square Hospitality, and explores the power of hospitality in all aspects of life and business.Takeaways: Hospitality is the act of doing something for someone rather than just doing it to them. While it may be customary to offer complimentary drinks, a customer may not want them, thus putting the customer in an awkward situation. Active listening and making connections are key elements in collecting valuable information. Utilizing these skills allows for effective networking and the facilitation of beneficial collaborations.Making meaningful connections with others can unlock the magic of building strong relationships, fostering teamwork, and enhancing personal growth. These connections create moments of excitement and shared understanding that can have a lasting impact.A cohesive combination of design, atmosphere, and narrative in a space can create a powerful and memorable experience. Ensuring all elements align and speak the same language enhances the overall impact and leaves a lasting impression on visitors.Prompt problem-solving is crucial in the hospitality industry, ensuring a seamless experience for guests even in challenging situations. By swiftly addressing issues and offering suitable alternatives, restaurants can uphold customer satisfaction.Hospitality should start by warmly welcoming guests and understanding their purpose for visiting. By paying attention to their cues and preferences, you can offer appropriate suggestions to enhance their experience.Hospitality is crucial in corporate environments, as it creates a sense of belonging and pride for employees while enhancing their overall experience. Incorporating innovative food and beverage concepts helps foster a positive and engaging work environment.Quote of the Show: “Hospitality is when you do something for someone rather than to someone.” - Jessica GidariLinks:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-gidari-65906120/ Website: https://www.unionsquareevents.com/consulting/ Website: https://www.jgidari.com/ Shout Outs:00:43 - Danny Meyer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhmeyer/ 07:32 - Shake Shack: https://shakeshack.com/#/ 07:33 - Union Square Cafe: https://www.unionsquarecafe.com/ 07:36 - Blue Smoke: https://www.bluesmoke.com/ 07:42 - Gramercy Tavern: https://www.gramercytavern.com/ 16:58 - JP Morgan Chase: https://www.jpmorganchase.com/ 17:24 - Foster and Partners: https://www.fosterandpartners.com/ 38:23 - Hospitality Quotient:https://hq.ushg.com/ 44:06 - Arizona State University: https://www.asu.edu/ Ways to Tune In: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0A2XOJvb6mGqEPYJ5bilPXApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/defining-hospitality-podcast/id1573596386Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZGVmaW5pbmdob3NwaXRhbGl0eS5saXZlL2ZlZWQueG1sAmazon Music: ​​https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/8c904932-90fa-41c3-813e-1cb8f3c42419

Since quietly taking the helm of Union Square Cafe in New York City, chef Lena Ciardullo has been turning out some of the best Italian-based food in town ... not bad for a woman who majored in communications in college before deciding to pursue a kitchen career. Recently, Lena sat down with Andrew at Union Square Cafe to discuss her own Italian roots, the time she spent in Italy, the pros and cons of spending her entire post-school career with the same restaurant group, and her philosophies of training and education.This episode is brought to you in part by meez, the recipe operating system for culinary professionals. Try out their free basic version today.Andrew's NEW book The Dish: The Lives and Labor Behind One Plate of Food is now ON SALE! Read the book Publishers Weekly calls "masterful."Since 2019, Andrew Talks to Chefs has been a fully independent podcast and no longer affiliated with our former host network; please visit and bookmark our official website for all show updates, blog posts, personal and virtual appearances, and related news.

#36.  Have you ever wondered who is behind all of the new and exciting flavors at Shake Shack? Meet John Karangis, Executive Chef and VP of Culinary Innovation, leading R&D, menu development, and chef collaborations for the brand. John's culinary journey kicked off in the nineties at Union Square Cafe, winding through Paris and San Francisco, before settling back in New York City at Gramercy Tavern. A detour into the corporate kitchen of Goldman Sachs honed his skills in delivering top-notch restaurant-style food in unconventional settings. Prior to Shake Shack, John spent seven years at the helm of Danny Meyer's Union Square Events, fine-tuning his ability to execute high-quality food on a large scale.In this episode, join CEO Josh Sharkey and John as they discuss the intricacies of R&D and innovation at Shake Shack. Discover the secrets behind producing restaurant-quality fare on a grand scale, and get a glimpse into John's passion for endurance training.Where to find John Karangis: InstagramLinkedInTwitterWhere to find host Josh Sharkey:InstagramLinkedInIn this episode, we cover:(02:11) John's culinary background(06:48) Endurance training(13:12) How endurance training relates to working as a chef(17:41) R&D for Shake Shack(25:07) R&D Customer feedback (29:36) Shake Shake chef collaborations(33:50) When dishes don't make it past testing(42:36) Union Square Events and producing food at a large scale(46:31) How to create high quality food at a large scale(54:36) Working with Delta and seasoning food at high elevation(57:18) Advice on how to start on a fitness journey

Are you looking to hit the ground running with powerful ground marketing strategies? Our ground marketing course offers a range of actionable steps utilizing local restaurants, gyms, corporate locations, and small businesses in your area! With step-by-step scripts, foolproof plans, and real-time video demonstrations, you'll master the art of effectively engaging with your local community to attract new patients effortlessly. Click this link to join the community! https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/the-ground-marketing-course-open-enrollment/‍‍Guest: Michael SonickBusiness Name: Michael SonickCheck out Michael's Media:Website: https://www.michaelsonick.com/Michael's Book - Treating People Not Patients: https://a.co/d/gsHKkx3Email: mike@sonickdmd.comPhone: 203-209-7029Free Course Preview: https://www.michaelsonick.com/freepreview‍‍Other Mentions and Links:Dennis tarnowChristian CoachmanPeter DiamandisBroadway TheaterMonopolyUnreasonable Hospitality - Will GuidaraDanny Meyer Shake ShackEleven Madison ParkGramercy TavernUnion Square CafeZagat ModelAdam GrantThe Wizard of OzBlink - Malcolm GladwellHarvard UniversityInvisalignDavid GarberFrank Spear‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:How can you really wow patients, going above and beyond their expectations?What are the keys to hiring, including personality, effective roles, and must-haves?What is the first, and most important step to bringing on effective team members?The 5 core values of Dr. Sonick's practice, and how he implements them.Human to human interaction is irreplaceable when it comes to connecting with patients.The secret sauce Dr. Sonick takes from the restaurant industry to apply to his practice.‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael Arias: all right, it's time to talk with our featured guest, Dr. Michael Sonic. Michael, how's it going? Michael Sonick: It's going great. Thank you for having me on the show, Michael. Michael Arias: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I appreciate you coming on. If you don't mind me asking right now, tell us a little bit about your past, your present.How did you get to where you are today? Michael Sonick: Well, I'm a perinatalist. I've been private practice since 1985 and I graduated dental school in 1979. So I'm probably than most of your audience. And I've had a true passion for, you know, working with my hands and also customer service. And so over the course of my 35, 40 years of building a practice, One of the things that resonated with me was really developing great connections with my patients.And my background was in the, not only the furniture business and woodworking, I was a lifeguard, but I also played cocktail piano. I did a lot of work in the restaurant business. So I waited on tables. I was a bartender. I was a busboy. Um, I even was a chef in the kitchen. So in college, every, every summer I would have a job, you know, when I wasn't lifeguarding, I moved over to hospitality. And that was a lot of fun. I met a lot of people and I realized the importance of connecting with, you know, my customers who are people in the restaurant. So for years, I always thought about the importance of really serving, people and we do that as dentists and also serving people in the restaurant business.So there were a lot of parallels between the restaurant business and my office. So when I first opened up my practice, I opened up in 1985 and for whatever reason I was sort of entrepreneurial. I didn't know it at the time, but I just decided I just wanted to work for myself. And, you know, today we have a lot of different choices.You can work for somebody else. You can work for a large corporation. You can open up your own practice. I still think there's a real strong need for people to be in their own practices and to connect with other human beings. But you're going to connect with other human beings, even if you're in a large corporation, or if you're working for somebody.That is critical. So in dental school. I did okay, you know, I liked it, but when I became a periodontist, you know, I was a general dentist for a few years, and then I went to my residency program, became a periodontist, and then I really just really enjoyed it, and I'd pull all nighters, and even though there weren't any grades, and it was a pass fail, I just really, really got into it, and I spent a lot of time the first 15 20 years of my, my, my career.Building my craft. And I think that's essential. You have to be really good at what you do. Most patients don't really know if you graduated first or last, or if you did a good crown prep or a bad ground prep, or you're good at dentures or extracting teeth, but what do they know? They know that you didn't hurt them.They know what your fees are and they know what the experience was like. Unless it's a front tooth, they're really not going to understand, the quality of your work. So. I still think it's real important to do great quality work, because it puts you in a niche, a top. So that's what I did. My first part of my career, I just studied, and I went to a lot of courses, and I spent a lot of time teaching, and I've been teaching for 40 years clinically.But I also realize it's real important to be able to connect with the people that you serve. And you have to do it by building a strong team. And that's by hiring the right people. And that's a whole different, you know, that's a whole different thing. How do you hire, how do you get the right people?How do you develop a culture? So there's a number of things that I believe you have to do to be a really successful dentist. One, you have to be great at your craft. Two, you have to have a nice looking office. It has to be clean. It has to be neat. You have to be clean and neat. And three, I can't say it's most importantly, but it's really important.And it's something that's not taught in dental schools. You have to have the ability to be able to give great superior customer service. Now, when I say customer service, it's not the stuff that's expected. It's the stuff that's not expected. It's the unexpected. It's going above and beyond. And, you know, Mike, I'm sure you remember those four or five great meals you had in restaurants or somewhere it could have been in someone's house.And you, if I asked you what was a great meal, you probably could think like, well, it's this meal. And what happened during that meal was the food was good, but there's also something very special that meal. Maybe it was the type of wine they opened. Maybe it was the way they. Gave you special attention.Maybe you didn't tell them that it was, you know, your friend's birthday. And then they came over with it and they did an over the top, you know, thing for them. Those are the things that, that we really remember. And I try to do that for my patients on every visit. We called it in our office, giving them the wow experience.Michael Arias: I really like how you pointed out these four things. You got to be great at your craft, nice looking office, ability to give great customer service. And I remember not that long ago, I read this book called Unreasonable Hospitality.And it provides... By William Godera. Michael Sonick: Yes, uh huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a classic. Michael Arias: Love that book. And I like how he said, service is black and white, but hospitality is color. Right. And so it is what you said, like you got to go above and beyond. So how do we do that in a practice? Because I know you're kind of a master at this.You wrote a book called Treating People, Not Patients. And so you dive deeper into this topic on just hospitality or what is that about? Michael Sonick: Yeah, that's a good question. Well, Will Guderia's mentor was Danny Meyer. I don't know if you know who that is. Danny Meyer. People know Danny Meyer because of Shake Shack, but Will Guderia, his restaurant, 11 Madison Park, was top restaurant in the world one year, voted.it's one of the best restaurants in Manhattan. Well, that was Danny restaurant, and Will Guderia bought that restaurant from him. Danny Meyer started Gramercy Tavern. And he started a union square cafe and he hunted 11 Madison park. He has about 50 restaurants in Manhattan, but he got put on the map financially because he started Shake Shack.And that's a, that's a whole nother story. that's what made him very wealthy, but he, he brought what we call hospitality to the restaurants. And we'll get there ran with that because, you know, he was a mentee of Danny Meyer and took it to the top. And in his book, he talks about the things that they do.They actually have somebody on staff there that's just there. I think it calls the director of customer experiences. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Great experiences there, buddy. He gives them those, those unique experiences. And in his book, he talks about. these like four people there. I think they were from Iowa and it was their last meal in Manhattan.And they're about to go back to Iowa. And he goes, what restaurants were you here? And I talked about it and, you know, a bunch of food. He used to talk about the same thing. And he probably a foodie if he read that book he says, well, what was your best experience? They go, we had a lot of good ones.He goes, anything you missed? He goes, yes. We never had a New York city hot dog. And so we'll get the era who's, you know, owns the restaurant. He goes outside in his suit in the middle of the day and he gets a couple of hot dogs in the street. brings to the kitchen and he asked them to cut them up.He says to serve and they play them with mustard and relish and, you know, some sauerkraut. And it comes out, of course, the chef didn't want to do that, you know, being a, chef in a, in a top restaurant, but he wanted to do it to give them that experience. Now, whatever kind of food they had, I think they had duck that night.It didn't really matter. They're going to be talking about the hot dog and the hot dog has nothing about food. So how do you do that? And in my book, I have 10 different chapters. I also have a series of videos that you can purchase that are specifically there to train the staff and there are different techniques you need.You need to be able be nice. It's basically four words, be nice to people. And when you have somebody in your chair. Or in your office, or in your waiting room, you know, are you nice to them? And how does your practice look to them? So the model of my practice is actually based on the restaurants, but it's called the Zagat model.Now, Zagat was a restaurant review book that was published by Tim and Nina Zagat out of Yale. It's no longer on the market. It was bought by Google, but they rated restaurants based upon three things, food, service, and decor. So I'm going to make an assumption that every dentist out there knows what they need to do to do good dentistry.So we don't serve food, we serve dentistry. But we still have to have good decor, and we still have to have good service in our practice. So how do you do the decor? Well, there's a whole series of checklists that we have, and we have a checklist for everything that we do in our practice. We have a checklist for the human being in our practice.Is your hair combed? Are you clean? Is your uniform pressed? Do you have a nice smile? Are your fingernails clean? you wear nice shoes? We have something in our office called the white sneakers. So in our practice, everybody wears white sneakers, and they're clean, and I buy them for everybody. And if they're not clean, they go out and buy a new pair, and they're had permission to do that.So when people join our practice, we tell them what our team is about, what our culture is about. And as one of one of the most important things in the dental practice is to be neat and clean because people are afraid of a couple of things in the office. They're afraid of pain. They're afraid of how much it's going to cost.afraid of the unknown, but they're also afraid of diseases and germs and cleanliness over the top clean office. You're going to stand out. Very few offices are like that. So we do a check and we go through it. We go through everything in the office and I do sort of, I'm sort of very picky when it comes to cleanliness and having everything run very smoothly.So I'll do little things like I'll unscrew a light bulb. I'll see how long it's going to take for somebody to realize that the light bulb is unscrewed. And I say, hey, how come nobody saw that light go? We used to have telephones with the cords that used to be raveled. I used to, if I saw a raveled phone cord, I said unravel it.And then when I unravel it, I'd unplug the phone and take the cord out. So people would answer the phone and there'd be nothing there because the cord would be unraveled. They go, Oh, Dr. Sonic was there doing that again. Sometimes I'll leave a piece of trash on the front lawn. I go, didn't anybody see that?and I do sort of games like, you know, with that, with, with the people want to practice. I say, bring it up, bring it up, bring it up. So I think to do that, you have to just make a decision early on. Are you going to be an excellent practitioner? Are you going to be someone who really wants to give great service to your patient?Do you realize that's important? Because I'm telling you it is. It makes such a difference with your patients if you are present for them. And I have a lot of different strategies for that. Cleanliness is one. Another one is giving everybody. On every visit, a phone call after their first visit there, whether it's surgery or not surgery from the team.And the next day, I will call a patient. So, a patient gets two phone calls from our office. Not many people get that from their dentists or their doctors. Another thing that I do that's really important and that I've recommended to every dentist, but nobody does it, is the patient letter. every first visit, Michael, if you came to see me as a new patient, let's say you had, you come in and you look like you have nice teeth, you have no disease or anything.Michael, it's a pleasure seeing you today. Today we did a diagnosis on you and a comprehensive examination. The good news is you have no periodontal disease, you have no decay. You don't grind your teeth. You don't need a bite guard. Okay. And, um, I'm very happy to say that if you get your teeth cleaned every four to six months and just brush and floss, you'll probably not need any dentistry for the rest of your life.Pleasure having you here. If you have any questions, feel free to call me on my cell phone, 203 209 7029, or email me at my private email, mikeatsonicdmd. com. Who gets that from their dentist or their doctor? Now, if you had a severe problem, you'd get a more detailed letter. And then I would say to you, go home, read this, discuss it with your, you know, loved one, or your friend, or maybe you know somebody else who's a dentist.Read it, and if you're not sure about whether you want to go through a treatment, come on back with your, you know, husband, your wife, your mother, whatever, your son, daughter, and let's have a consultation, we'll talk again, and share that letter. So what I do is a very specific strategies as I give information and I make it very easy for patients to communicate with me now.A lot of doctors. Now, I work with a lot of positions. It's really hard to communicate with positions. They want to communicate with faxes. They do not give you your personal email. You never get their cell phone. So if I'm going to meet somebody new, Michael, if you were a new person I'm working with, doctor Michael, what's your cell phone, what's your personal email.I get that all the time. And I have a database and I have a huge database so that I can call you directly when I want to communicate, as opposed to, I haven't heard back from him. I haven't heard back. So I'm very proactive about getting things done. I think my skill is I'm well known as a good surgeon, someone who does a lot of implants, et cetera, but my real skill is good communication.being very clear and direct with my patients. No ambiguity. You know, I don't know if you know about Adam Grant. I'm sure you've read his work as well, a psychologist from the University of Pennsylvania. He says what people find more and more challenging is not getting negative information or positive.It's that one in between. It's the ambiguity. When someone is ambiguous, It's confusing. And you've probably been with people, I mean, a lot of people do this. they don't do it advertently, but they may do it, you know, because it's just their habit. They use confusion to control you because they don't want to make a decision.So they'll start to say, you know, well, I could do this, this way. And you're talking with a patient, it's like, are you going to go through treatment or you're not going to go through treatment? What's the deal? So I find out, I go, you know, seem a little confused. I go, what is it? Is it the money? Are you fear of going through it?Have you had bad experiences? Do you not think you're worth it? Do you want to give the money to your children? Or do you have to pay for something else? Or do you just not trust me because you don't think I'm competent at what I'm doing? Here's what I can do. And I give patients all the information that I can.And I have, I can give it to him many ways. I can talk to him like I'm talking to you. I can write down the pictures. I can open up my website. This is another topic we can talk about. We should have over 1200 pages of content on my website. So they can go there. I've written six books, four of them picture books that are self published in the office.So this is a gum graph before, this is after. And we can all do this. We can just take a picture and do that. So I show them my work so they can say, this is my stuff. So you can look at it. Very few doctors will show you that. I don't know what that's like. Oh, you don't know what a bone wrap looks like?Here, here's a PowerPoint presentation. This is a flap reflector. This is the bone. This is the graft. This is what it looks like six months later. I will show them. I'll take away the mystery. I always say to patients, it's sort of like you're in the Wizard of Oz, and I'm the wizard, very omniscient, have all these powers, I'm behind a curtain.Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take back the curtain, I'm going to bring you into my world. I'm going to take you backstage. And I love going backstage in operations, but I'm going to take you to my backstage. And I'm going to show you what I actually do. And a lot of doctors are afraid to show the patients what they do.And then it becomes ambiguous because they don't trust you. And what's the most important thing you want to bring to a dentist or doctor or anybody that has a responsibility? You want to be able to trust them because you want to be able to feel love. cared for, nurtured. It's almost a spiritual experience when you're having that kind of a relationship.It's not an I it relationship where like you're an object and I'm just giving you a coin like I'm going to a toll. It's a really intimate relationship. and I try to break down those barriers. Now, I look, I've been practicing a long time. I couldn't do this when I was 30. I had developed confidence I was very arrogant as a young dentist, because you know, I was good.I was good. You know, I was good. I was good in my residency program. I had no experience, but I thought I was good. I thought I was smart. I thought it was cool. it was all basically a front because I was insecure. I realized I didn't know anything. I've been practicing one year. How do I talk to a patient with confidence?It's very hard to do that. what do you do as a young person? If you don't know how to, if you don't do that, you tell the patient what you can do. You tell the patients what you do know. You tell the patients what your experiences is. And you give them that great experience, you know, in that area. there are a lot of little hints that I can give you to do that.You know, from the simplest ones, to writing a letter, to cleanliness, to calling the patients, to developing a team. Now, developing a team is a very difficult thing to do. Most dentists say, Oh, I love the dentistry. I just hate my staff. Well, that's a problem. Okay, you want to be able to love your staff and you want your staff to support you.I get a lot of compliments on my staff. Most, actually, most people leave the dental practice not because of the quality of the dentist, but because of their relationship with the staff. before I even meet a patient, you know this 'cause, because this is what you do for a living before a doctor, before a patient even meets me.They probably have 15 to 20 different touchstones with our practice before the referral. The phone call, the website, the location, the outside of the building, the parking lot, what is the door squeak or not when you walk in, when it confirmed properly, did they say, or do you say hello? Hey, Michael, welcome or say, what's your name?they know it's at 11 o'clock. We've got one patient coming in. Might as well greet them by their name. How are you doing? The nurse meets them, they go in there. By the time I walk into that room, I got to really be bad to blow it, because they've already been sold. They've been sold because they've been treated well up until that point.And it's like, all of a sudden I walk in, it's like I'm a movie star walking into that room. Because they say, oh, a doctor's here. Yeah, but they've been treated well up until that point. And they often say, you know, well, Danielle or Amelia treat us really well. Whatever they say to do, we'll do, because our team is really what supports us and lifts us up.Michael Arias: Gotcha. And I feel Can you give us a little bit more insight on like how we can build the perfect team? I feel like there's a lot of people who feel like they get B players and they turn into C They get A players and then the B players are bringing them down kind of thing Michael Sonick: it really started, it starts with the, with the leader of your organization when dentistry, how do we become dentists?Well, you got to get good grades in school. It has nothing to do with clinical skills or building a team or being nice to people, right? it means you're good at multiple choice tests. I always say to some of my friends, you know, that are really smart.But they're not successful. I said, you know, the problem is you're too smart. you always the expression, the, uh, the A students work for the C students, you know, so it's a different skill set to build a team and it's, I have a whole chapter on hiring and how do you build a team?And we build it. First of all, you got to know what you want. And I think before you build a team, you got to figure out who you are and that sort of starts with developing a mission statement or a statement of purpose or whatever you want to call it. It starts like, well, what is it? What does your practice want to look like?does your practice want to look like someone who's just making money that just does high quality dentistry? Or does it want to look like someone who really. helps other people. So we developed our mission statement decades ago, and it's really, we've dumbed it down now. It's not really dumbed down, it's simplified.And it's really to improve the quality of patients lives. So when I hire people, I want people to be able to be similar to my mission. I want them to be able to help people. Now, I can't really train people to be nice. You know, I hire nice people. So that's, that's what I would hire you. You seem like a nice guy.No, you're, you're smiling. You're good. You connect with people. So you'd be great. You know, I would probably hire you based upon this, this podcast right now. you can really get, you know, Malcolm Gladwell, I'm sure you know, he talks about a blink, you know, it's like immediately you sort of know. So we develop our core values and I think every practice should look at their mission and their core values.And that's, that's a lot of self work and our core values are involved being servant hearted. So I want people to be servant hearted. I want them to be able to treat Patients. Well, I want them to have very high integrity. I want to be health oriented, and I want them to be teammates. I want them to be educational.So those are our five core values. So the most important ones, okay, are having integrity. That's, that's a, that's a non negotiable in our office. You know, if you don't have integrity, if you lie, if you steal, et cetera, that doesn't work. Um, and you have to be serving hearted. You have to want to serve the people.So everybody in my practice, I have 25 people in my practice. Everybody is there to serve. Okay, that's what we're there and also they should be good teammates. So we want to get along when you have 24, 25 people in the office, small office. It's not always easy, but we always talk about it. We talk about that and we're very transparent.No ambiguity, like I talked about earlier. So we're transparent and that there's a problem. we're going to bring it up and we can say, Hey, what's the problem here? Not make it personal, but talk about what the problem is. So once I find who I want, then we craft an ad and we, we interview people, but before we interview them, we get their resume, and you can tell a lot from resume, We get them to fill out a, um, employment application, you know, some basic information, but what's really important is we do something called a culture index. And not a lot of people know about this, but I do this on almost everybody in my life. What a culture index is, is, is a way that we can, I can look at somebody's personality and I look at them for seven different characteristics.Are they autonomous? Are they going to work on their own? Are they going to follow orders? Are they very social? Or are they very, are they not social? Are they very detail oriented? Something very important for dental assistant or they're not detail oriented. Do they have a sense of urgency or if they're really laid back and they'll just move at a slower pace.So those are the four major ones, but then it's like, how logical are they? I want people who are logical. Do they, are they creative? And do they have higher or lower energy? So I look at that and I'll tell you something. If I look, there's seven dots and I can look at these seven dots and I look at probably, probably look at 15 resumes and culture and disease a week.I can look at them and within about literally seven or eight seconds, I know what that person's like. Okay. I can, I don't know their integrity. I don't know if they're smart, but I know what kind of worker they're going to be. If they have the wrong culture index, they're not getting hired. And every time I don't follow the culture index, I hire the wrong person.Okay. I always try to fire it. So the culture index, the resume and the, um, appointment application. If I like the culture index and their resume, which is about one out of every 25, then they get a FaceTime interview with one of my office managers. If they like them after the FaceTime interview, they bring them in and then we do the blink and I look at them and within about three or four seconds, I know if they're a pretty good fit or not, if they know nothing about my practice, you know, if they haven't read the website, they're probably not very good.They're not curious, and they're probably not the right fit. If they don't stand up and look me in the eye and shake my hand with a firm handshake. They're not going to get hired. If they come in, they are looking terrible, disheveled, unwashed hair. If they're 15 minutes late, okay. If their fingernails are dirty and their shoes are all scuffed up, they're gone.So, I mean, it's just very quickly and it saves us a lot of time. We very rarely hire the wrong person anymore. It took me a long time to do this. And when I like, if I like them doing that blink, then the rest of my team interviews them. If they like that, they go home. Then if we like them at that point in time, we make them back for a working interview where they spend a full day with my team.And that's not for me. My team that makes the final decision. Are they a good teammate or not? We know very, very quickly. If I ever feel badly, sometimes people look great on paper and they, you know, and the other people like them, but they give me a knot in my stomach. They don't get hired. And I think, you know, that you either like it or it's a very, it's a chemical thing that happens.And once you're pretty perceptive and you become perceptive to this, and you can train yourself to become more perceptive, you start to see, because there's nothing worse than hiring the wrong person, and now they're there for four or five months. Now you got to let them go. It's stressful. their life. I'm doing somebody a favor if I don't hire them. you know, I don't want to have to hire somebody to fire them and we very rarely fire anybody. the reason people leave is because, um, usually, you know, the husband gets transferred or wife gets transferred, something like that, or, or they go back to school.We have a lot of people go back to school and, you know, better themselves. You know, I have like three or four people who went to medical school or dental school. So the hiring process is something I find very fascinating because I get to put the team together and I'm not hiring me. I'm hiring a teammates and it's like somebody doesn't work out one area.We have other jobs in the office where I can move them around to like, one of my best. One of my assistants is really social, but she's terrible with details. I mean, you know, I asked her to hand me the blue thing. She hands me the red thing. I know that about her. She's been with me for 11 years, always forgetting stuff.But she's the nicest person, and she always takes care of people who are nervous, and she'll do whatever it takes to really connect with people. She's the best connector, but she's the less detailed. So that's what we use her for, connecting with people, making people feel good. She's great, you know, and we love her.She's just a great, great human being. And I have other people that are really detailed, and really, and really persnickety. They're going to get everything right. great. Those are the people who do all my ordering and make sure everything is there. You know, so I'm not going to give my ordering to the person that's really nice, but not detail oriented and vice versa. I'm not going to put that person, uh, who's very detail oriented, not always that nice, you know, with a, with a disgruntled patient, something like that. very fascinating. How do you put the team, the teams together, stress when I have a good team. Michael Arias: you built like a, a system here to do that. You know what I mean?Especially tailored to you, or I think you can kind of like create this, uh, system and put it in literally any practice, but then they can kind of tailor to their mission statement and stuff like that. Right. and it's very strict in the sense of like, or not strict, I guess, but it's more like, Hey, this is the requirements because every, everything has to have a requirement.Right. In order to, to function well, even if you have, if you play Monopoly, right, you can't just, if I were to play Monopoly with you and I decided to do my own rules, you're going to be like, this is not fun no more. Right. I don't like doing this, but if I were to go by the rules, we can all enjoy it. And it's fun.And, uh, Michael Sonick: nobody in my life is perfect and I'm certainly not perfect. So we're all different. We all know, like my partner, I have two partners and my, partner, Ray Ma, he has a very different personality than I do, but I don't expect him to have my personality he's not a visionary.He's very good surgeon. And he's very detailed and he likes to look at numbers now. I'm good with numbers, but I don't like numbers. I don't like to look at him. I don't like to look at the pros and cons. I give it to somebody else. I make money, but I don't, do the spreadsheets. I don't even know how to use a spreadsheet.I mean, that's, that's not what my, where my brain is. So, like, we said, you know, can you teach me numbers? Yeah, I can teach you numbers. You know, if you make money. And then you have this much, this much debt, you subtract your debt from the money. What's left over is the number that you got. That's your, that's your net worth.I just really simplify it, but he's great at that. And we work out very well because we do different things. So I try to get everybody into their own lane in the practice. So my lane is very clear. You know, I'm the visionary and a marketing person and I do surgery and I try to keep the call and I try to keep to culture.Running well. So when I'm not there, because right now I only work two days a week, I work Tuesdays and Wednesdays. So the rest of my time is either teaching or, um, you know, writing which I love to do too. So I, well, I'm there Tuesday, Wednesday.So I come in Tuesday morning. I'll be frank with you. It's not the same as when I leave on Wednesday night and, you know, boxes may be out. This is here. I go, what's going on? And I just come through and they know it, they know what's coming on. I go. That's right. Dad's back in the house. Okay, get in line, man.I know it. I know it. But I buy him lunch too. And I'm real nice to him during the day, but they know exactly what I want, when I want it. last night we had a, uh, we had a meeting with a group of dentists. We do a lot of education in the office. We have a study club and last night, The other dentists were going, man, they really treat you well.they're putting a cup of coffee down for me. They're cleaning up my area. I go, yeah, they are. They are treating me well. It's not because I beat them. It's because they have certain roles to do. So do I, if I have to entertain 30 dentists, do I need to go down and make a cup of coffee at that time?Isn't my time better spent up there running that room and doing the education, doing everything else. And I make sure that they're all. They're all rewarded for that. they don't know this yet, but we do a bonus system. this month, each of my staff is getting a 2, 000 bonus because based upon what we do, I don't push them to make money because they're not, they're not on this bonus system.Like the more we do, because I don't want to do that. But you know, when we, when their office does better and we're above a certain percentage, you know, they, they get the share in It's always like a gift that they never expect, but nobody would do that.So nobody's on like a percentage there or anything like that. There are hourly employees, including my hygienist, and some people like to bonus them for doing more, but they don't have to do any selling for me. They just go in there and work. then when they work hard, you know, sometimes they get, they get rewarded.So we haven't told him that. I just found that out last night, my partner, because he doesn't. Michael Arias: That's fantastic. And it's good to do that, you know what I mean? To see the team achieve it and everything like that. Michael Sonick: Yeah, and we buy them lunch. We do a lot of nice things for the staff. We go to a Danny Meyers restaurant every year.we rent out the back room. This year we rented out the back room at Gramercy Tavern, which is an unbelievable room. And a lot of my team members have never been to New York City. They've never been to a Broadway play. You know, we'll We spend nine o'clock in the morning until probably midnight every summer, you know, taking the team to New York with four or five events, staying in great restaurants and having a really, really nice time.And so they talk about it to the patients, and then they bring back the same culture from Danny Meyer's restaurant to our office. And they know that we're running Meyer's restaurant. On the cover of my book, my blurb is Mike's deeper calling is to use hospitality gifts to make people feel better as lessons applied in a customer facing business.And it's Danny Myers. he gave me a blog top of the book, which was a big deal. I mean, that meant a lot to me. He, for me, is my role model for hospitality. And Will Guderian. Of course, I mean, you know, he's, he's phenomenal what he does, you know, we call it a wild experience.You know, he tries to do that for everybody in his, in his place. And that's how he became number one restaurant in the world. If you read his book, you know, he, the first time he was, he was invited to Europe. I think it was London. And, uh, they were going to give him an award for being one of the top 50 restaurants.He goes, yeah, great. One of the top 50, but they didn't know where he was. He was number 50. Okay, so one of the top 50, but I'm 50, it bothered him and that was the night he went back to his hotel room with his, um, partner, the chef, and he wrote down on a piece of paper because we're going to be number one, you know, within the next five years.And I think it took two years later. And then he wrote down unreasonable hospitality and that's what he wanted to do. Every time a patient comes in, I want to give them something that they're going to think about. It could be, like, if you want the best restaurants in my area, I have a list. If you want a place to walk, I have a list.If you want the top neurologist, I have that number. You want to go to hospital special surgery, you need knee replacement surgery, I have a list of doctors down there. I have a periodontist in L. A., I know who to send you to out in L. A. So, we make sure that our patients always are well taken care of, and I connect with other people that are similar.And so you end up building a network of like minded people, you know, so if you want to be great, you want to run a really successful practice, look at other successful people and ask them, how can you help me? Call me. I don't do consulting, you know, I just do teaching and, you know, lectures, that's what I don't have a consulting business.But if you have a question, send me an email, mikeatsonicdmd. com. I'm happy to give you some advice. I have it in a direct you to the right place. Oh, you're you're, you're in Idaho. I know somebody out there. That's pretty good that you can look at. You're in Columbus, Ohio. I know a great guy there that you can talk to, find other people to mentor you because great people love to mentor others.I mean, that's what you do. You like to help people. I mean, that's sort of what the core value of your business is making the people that you work with more successful. And that's a, it's a pretty cool way of living that every day I get to go to work and be the gift to my patients, which basically, you know, they always say giving is better than receiving.It is. It is. I mean, it definitely, it definitely is. it's, it's just a great, and you get paid for doing it too. I mean, we, we have a great job. We get to help people get paid for it, do clinical things, meet all these great people. I mean, you know, and improve the quality of people's lives. Yeah, I could be better than that.Michael Arias: Yeah, a thousand percent. So then where can we, cause I know right now we kind of just talked parts of the book, right? Where can we go get this book? Michael Sonick: Well, you can buy it on Amazon, so it's, uh, it's called Treating People, Not Patients. You can go to my website, which is my name, michaelsonic. com, and, uh, on my website, you can see courses that we teach.you can download videos, uh, there's a video series that, that is, uh, I think very powerful. It's three and a half hours videos that you, that are in segments, 15 minute segments. So once a week, you sit down with your team. And you look at the segment comes with a workbook, a course workbook, you can have your whole team right through the course workbook.And there's a series of questions and you get to evaluate your office. You know, there's a bunch of series in there. Like, how do patients want to be cared for? Are you good at telling a story? You know, do you do comprehensive examination? We haven't talked about that, but that being comprehensive is really important.most doctors, most dentists do not do a comprehensive examination. They look for procedures to do Most dentists are pothole fillers and they don't treat people comprehensively because they think they got to fill their book and they got to make money. Bottom line is you treat people comprehensively.Even if they don't need any treatment, they're going to refer you to other people that want the same thing. And going to be waiting around the corner to get into your office, you know, I mean, I booked until January and I don't do any. I mean, I don't do any real marketing.My marketing is all internal. I just started to do some external marketing because I have two partners, my younger one to build their practice and I was just playing around with it, and I take no insurance, so I've never taken insurance. And, uh, 4 to 7 percent of the population, dentists don't take insurance.My partner who joined me 10 years ago, wanted to take insurance to get busy. I go, no, wait, just treat people. And it took him a couple of years. He got busy. It's slower to build a practice if you don't take insurance, but you can do it, but you can't do it by being mediocre. You've got to be exceptional, not as a dentist, but as a human being to your patients, and if you want to do that, you can do that.That's a lot more fun. and my, my youngest partner, you know, she's been with me two years. She thinks no insurance either. So I'm booked. Uh, I'm booked until January. My mid range partner who's middle age, she's 40. He's booked until I don't know, he's booked like six weeks. And, uh, my youngest person, she's out on pregnancy leave now, but she's got a full schedule.not the waiting list, but she's on me when I have 2 years, but in 2 more years, you're not going to get into her schedule either. So, yeah, you know, I always say to my partner. the way, I'm an American I practice in my hometown, 200 yards from where I went to high school.Ray Ma is from, China. communist border of North Korea. Uh, Soo Jin Yoo is from, Korea, Seoul. So, I mean, you know, and I have five, six people from Europe here. I have a very international practice and it doesn't really matter. It doesn't really matter where you're from. The same principles apply.I, I said to my partner, he goes, well, you know, I can't really do what you do. Cause I'm not from Fairfield. I said, I can open up a practice in downtown Beijing and be busier than you. I said, as an American, he goes, what are you talking about? I said, because I'm going to treat people well. And the joke was, cause he's Chinese, all the Chinese patients came in and wanted to see me.Not him, I didn't realize at the time that it was like a, status to see an American dentist, as opposed to a Chinese dentist. It's like everybody in Korea wants to go to Harvard, Yeah. Yeah. Michael Arias: Gotcha. Interesting. My, my Korean Michael Sonick: partner did go to Harvard. So, Michael Arias: yeah, yeah, no, that's interesting.you're doing a lot, man. The seminars, study clubs and the book, right. And then your practice that you're running. It's a lot. So if you could, uh, one of the final pieces of advice that you can give our listeners right now, that would kind of help them move the needle towards where they want to go.Michael Sonick: first of all, I'd take two days. Go to a hotel room by yourself, or somewhere by yourself, and start to write. And write what your practice would look like, if you could do whatever you wanted. If you could take a magic wand and wave it in front of you, what would you like that to look like?And then, I mean, spend some time doing it. Do you want to be a restorative dentist? Do you want to do a lot of Invisalign? Do you want to do a multi specialty practice? Do you want to be, you know, you want to own a group of practices? Because there's so many different options. You know, if you feel like you're entrepreneurial, you want to buy practices, you don't really want to work, but you want them, and create them.And then find mentors and role models that have done that. And hang out with them. I remember when I was in my Early thirties, I said to a friend of mine, I said, in 25 years, this is what I want to do. I want to teach all over the world. I want to be well known nationally and internationally, and I want to be an educator, and I want to write articles, and I want to be well known like these people.And the people at the time were David Garber, who a lot of people know, and Frank Spear. And I said, I, that's where I that's a lofty way to be. I said, and I said, that's what I want. And so what I did was I started to meet those people. And all the well known people in our field. I know, you know, I wouldn't say they're friends of mine, but I have all their cell numbers and I talk to them all the time the sharing that goes on is really, really magical.So create a network of people. One of the things that a lot of people do today, especially your younger audience, is they do things on their own with social media and they learn from Instagram and they see other people and they text, that is a way to do it. I'm not saying it's wrong. But it's not a way to really connect with people.You don't build your practice by texting. You don't build it with social media only. it's a way to get people in front of you, but you really build it with human connectivity. All the work you do for your clients is useless if they come into a dirty office where the dentist doesn't care to them, doesn't spend the time looking in their eye, talking to them, and asking if they have any questions, and handing the business card with their cell phone number or personal email.You don't have to do that. By the way, my cell phone does not go off when a patient is calling me. They very rarely call me, but when they do, if I'm there for them to re cement a crown on it, like as I did last Sunday morning, before the patient flew off to Portugal for two weeks, because their front tooth fell out, you know, his dentist didn't, I'm a periodontist, his general dentist didn't pick up the phone, I did, and I re cemented it in with permanent cement, so he'll be okay in Portugal, and I gave him the name of a dentist I know in Lisbon, say call him if you have a problem.Giving it, not only cementing it, but give him a contact and then giving him my cell phone saying, if you're listening, the tooth falls out, call me. That's a wow experience. That's a hospitality that's over the top. And what did it cost me? I live a mile from my office. It cost me 25 minutes and a little bit of cement, and that is great marketing.Because that patient's going to be telling that story. And I said to him, I said, he goes, well, what do I leave for this? I go, nothing. He goes, nothing? What am I going to charge you? Can I make enough money for that one visit to get the marketing value? Then, not only was I there, I didn't charge him. I said, nothing.I said, you know why? I said, because you're going to be telling this story to people for the next 10 years about how nobody would call you back, but I came, your periodontist came in and re cement your tooth and gave you a cell phone number and a dentist and Lisbon. I told him exactly what I was doing for him.He happened to be a retired guy who was, who used to be in marketing himself. So I told him, and that's kind of transparency was pretty fun, you know? Yeah. Because you could say that I wasn't saying, well, oh, don't worry about, no, hey here, I'm doing it because I'm manipulating you to promote my practice and come back here.By the way, he's gonna need an implant there, so he's gonna be back in, you know, in, in and a few weeks, and I'll take care of him at that point in time. But that really gives great value to him and I, and I, by the way, I sent him a follow up letter to say, call me when you get back. Let's take a look and come up with a treatment plan.Okay? Not only did I see him, Did, did the service, gave 'em a contact number, gave 'em my cell phone. I sent them a letter. Okay, that's over the top and it's fun doing so. What do I do? Be nice to people. Be really nice to people. Connect with them. don't rush off. Be there. And the biggest way you can build your practice is when something goes wrong.Fix it. don't dismiss yourself in a part. That's a lot of younger people. I don't want this complication. Be there. If you can't fix it, find someone who can and develop relationships with those people. It's all about human connectivity and those will transform your relationships, you with everybody.Yeah. This is not about dentistry. This is just about, you know, connecting with people. Michael Arias: No, that's wonderful. Wonderful. So with that in mind, if anybody wanted to reach out to you. Call you or anything like that. Where can they reach out to you? Michael Sonick: Well, they can email me at Mike and Mike at sonic dmd. com. They can text me on my phone.Two Oh three, two Oh nine, seven Oh two nine. They can go to any of my websites, my name, michaelsonic. com. You can read my book, which I think you'll find very helpful, a lot of dentists have read it. I've had over 170 reviews from dentists from Dennis Tarnow to Christian Coachman to leaders in industry like Peter Diamandis and others.It's been really well received. Um, my goal is to get this book into every dental school so that we change the culture of how we treat people, you know, both dental and medical schools. and I'm, I'm talking to physicians as well about this. So it's my passion. I'm not hard to find. So nice, nice, Michael Arias: awesome.So guys, that's going to be in the show notes below. So definitely reach out to Michael and Michael, thank you so much for being with us. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you soon. Michael Sonick: Okay. Thank you, Michael. Thank you for having me.‍

Since we've got our Innovation Festival going on this week, here's a quick roundup of business and tech news: United Auto Workers (UAW) deal—the 32-hour week likely not to be a part of it UN General Assembly meets this week: there was a huge climate change protest on Sunday Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's visit with President Biden: to ask for help on a 10-point peace proposal and address the food security crisis Drew Barrymore apologized for her decision to resume production despite the ongoing Writers Guild of America strike and reversed her decision TikTok Shop is the latest social media platform to pivot to e-commerce Orcas are attacking people now . . . ? Or still. But now it might not just be playing and could be actual hunting And then we chatted with Chip Wade, CEO of Union Square Hospitality Group. He told us how he grew up in the hospitality industry and his tips for staying cool in a hot kitchen. USHG operates Gramercy Tavern, Union Square Cafe, and Blue Smoke, among other restaurants.

Mark's the best! He walked into Union Square Cafe more than 30 years ago and only left what became the Danny Meyer-founded Union Square Hospitality Group group recently, having scaled the dizzy heights of a restaurant group that was as iconic and successful as it was disruptive, creating a whole new perspective on how to serve guests and manage the staff that do so, all of which Mark played a large part in. I got to know him better at his last big project at USHG, the ass-kicking Porchlight bar in NY, and we sat down to shoot the shit about just about everything, from being part of Jose Andres' World Kitchen serving people fleeing the war in Ukraine, to diversity 2023-style in restaurant hiring, to the tip controversy (spicy!), to his biggest mistake as a manager, and how he distills that 30 years of expertise to help his consulting clients turbo-charge their business with his new firm, Maynard Consulting. Special thanks to the Institute of Culinary Education in NY  for loaning us a location to record in, and to the one and only Tony Sachs for donating a 50-odd-years-old mini of fine bourbon whisky for us to crack open to get the ball rolling!Maynard Consulting: https://www.maynardconsulting.net  Mark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-maynard-b8a2976  Get in touch with Duff!Podcast business enquiries: consulting@liquidsolutions.org (PR friends: we're only interested in having your client on if they can talk about OTHER things than their prepared speaking points or their new thing, whatever that is, for a few hours. They need to be able to hang. Oh, and we won't supply prepared or sample questions, or listener or “reach” stats, either.) Retain Philip's consulting firm, Liquid Solutions, specialised in on-trade engagement & education, brand creation and repositioning: philip@liquidsolutions.org Philip on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/philipsduff/ Philip on Facebook: Philip Duff Philip on X/Twitter: Philip Duff (@philipduff) / Twitter Philip on LinkedIn: linkedin.com Old Duff Genever on Instagram: Old Duff Genever (@oldduffgenever) • Instagram photos and videos Old Duff Genever on Facebook: facebook.com Old Duff Genever on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/oldduffgenever?lang=en www.oldduffgenever.com...

Eric Gabrynowicz, vice president of culinary for Tupelo Honey Southern Kitchen & Bar, fell in love with knives and fire when he worked in a restaurant kitchen as a teenager. From there, he graduated from the CIA, worked for Danny Meyer at Union Square Cafe and Blue Smoke, and eventually helmed his own kitchen at North Restaurant in Westchester County, N.Y. But Gabrynowicz has always been obsessed with the flavors and passion that go into Southern food. When he landed at Tupelo Honey, he wanted to preserve the Southern signatures that built the restaurant's reputation, but reinvigorate both the food and bar menu with elevated ingredients, techniques and presentation, and add his own culinary stamp. The polished-casual concept now has 23 locations across the U.S., but the menu plays as well in Idaho and Indianapolis as it does in Georgia and North Carolina—the state where it all started. Listen as Chef Gabrynowicz describes how he has brought Tupelo's Southern menu to new heights but learned not to mess with favorites like the mac and cheese, how the refreshed food and drink lineup has boosted sales and profits, and why he is so committed to bringing an end to childhood hunger.

Hosted by Kerry DiamondProduced by Catherine Baker and Jenna SadhuEdited by Jenna SadhuMusic by Tralala, “All Fired Up”Lena Ciardullo is the executive chef at Manhattan's Union Square Cafe, the much-loved restaurant and cornerstone of Danny Meyer's legendary Union Square Hospitality Group. Lena has worked for USHG ever since she graduated from the Culinary Institute of America and has had an impressive career. She joins host Kerry Diamond to talk about the road to becoming a chef, translating her dreams about food to the plate, motherhood, and more. In the second half of the show, it's Camilla Velasquez and Emily Weinstein from The New York Times. Camilla is the General Manager of New York Times Cooking and Emily is the Food and Cooking Editor, and they join Kerry to chat about The New York Times Cooking Emoji Line. Text your fave fruit or veg emoji to 361-COOK-NYT and you will get a free recipe in exchange. Don't try to outsmart The Times with an ice cream or pizza emoji. (We did that for you. The Times will politely shut you down.)Thank you to OpenTable for supporting today's show. Learn more about the Cherry Bombe + OpenTable Sit With Us community dinner series here. Radio Cherry Bombe is a production of The Cherry Bombe Podcast Network. Our show is recorded at Newsstand Studios at Rockefeller Center. Subscribe to our newsletter and check out past episodes and transcripts here. More on Lena: Instagram, Union Square Cafe, Union Square Hospitality GroupMore on NYT Cooking: Instagram, website

In our latest blind tasting episode, host MS Christopher Tanghe speaks with New York City sommeliers Andrea Morris and Jonathan Eichholz. Andrea and Jonathan share their blind tasting challenges and strategies before tasting the same red wine. Andrea Morris is the beverage director at Essential by Christophe. Before this role, she managed the beverage programs at Union Square Cafe, Intersect, and Nix. Jonathan Eichholz is currently an educator at GuildSomm, where he oversees the Wine Law Compendium, contributes to content, and teaches classes. Previously, he was a sommelier at The Modern. Listen in as Andrea and Jonathan blind taste, and see if you can guess along with them. We'll reveal the wine they're tasting at the end of the episode. Thanks for listening. If you enjoy this episode, please leave us a review, as this helps us connect with and grow our community. Cheers!

Danny Meyer is a restaurateur and the founder of Union Square Hospitality Group. His claim to fame includes Union Square Cafe, Gramercy Tavern, Shake Shack and other iconic dining institutions.  In this episode, Danny shares with us about what he calls “Enlightened Hospitality” and the importance of how you make your customers feel. This is part 2 of our interview with Danny Meyer. You can Check out Part 1 of this conversation here or watch the full interview on our Youtube channel.    Key Points: Leading with Generosity  Scaling to multiple restaurants Making a place for people to grow Resources/Links:  Union Square Hospitality Group Podcast Website  The Entrepreneur's Studio is powered by Heartland. Making every day work better. 

Danny Meyer is a restaurateur and the founder of Union Square Hospitality Group. His claim to fame includes Union Square Cafe, Gramercy Tavern, Shake Shack and other iconic dining institutions.  In this episode, Danny guides us from his food-obsessed youth and how he almost missed the lifestyle and career of his dreams by not following his passion. His inspiring story highlights the importance of following the spark to discover the best path for you.  This is Part One of our interview with Danny Meyer.    Key Points: The surprise discovery of food as a career path  Going against the grain to do what you love The five steps to “finding the magic.”   Resources/Links:  Union Square Hospitality Group Watch the full interview with Danny Meyer on our Youtube channel. The Entrepreneur's Studio is powered by Heartland. Providing nearly 1 million entrepreneurs with the technology to make money, move money, manage employees and engage customers. 

Born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri, Danny Meyer grew up in a family that relished great food and hospitality. Thanks to his father's travel business, which designed custom European trips, Danny spent much of his childhood eating, visiting near and far-off places, and sowing the seeds for his future passion. In 1985, at the age of 27, Danny opened his first restaurant, Union Square Cafe, launching what would become a lifelong career in hospitality.Thirty years later, Danny's Union Square Hospitality Group (USHG) comprises some of New York's most beloved and acclaimed restaurants, including Gramercy Tavern, The Modern, Maialino, and more. Danny and USHG founded Shake Shack, the modern-day “roadside” burger restaurant, which became a public company in 2015. USHG also offers large-scale event services, foodservice solutions for public and private institutions, industry consulting, and educational programming.Under Danny's leadership, USHG is renowned not only for its acclaimed restaurants but also for its distinctive and celebrated culture of Enlightened Hospitality. This guiding principle of prioritizing employees first and foremost has driven and shaped USHG's ongoing evolution from a small group of restaurants into a multi-faceted hospitality organization.Danny and USHG's diverse ventures have added to the hospitality dialogue in many contexts including dining options in museums, sports arenas, and cultural institutions, as well as prescient investments in burgeoning neighborhoods.Danny's groundbreaking business book, Setting the Table (HarperCollins, 2006), a New York Times Bestseller, articulates a set of signature business and life principles that translate to a wide range of industries. A celebrated speaker and educator, Danny has set industry standards in areas such as hiring practices, innovative leadership, and corporate responsibility and addresses a wide range of audiences on such topics around the country.Danny has been generously recognized for his leadership, business achievements, and humanitarianism, including the 2017 Julia Child Award, the 2015 TIME 100 “Most Influential People” list, the 2012 Aspen Institute Preston Robert Tisch Award in Civic Leadership, the 2011 NYU Lewis Rudin Award for Exemplary Service to New York City, and the 2000 IFMA Gold Plate Award. Together, Danny and USHG's restaurants and individuals have won an unprecedented 28 James Beard Awards, including Outstanding Restaurateur (2005) and Who's Who of Food and Beverage in America (1996).Danny and his wife, Audrey, live in New York City and have four children.In this episode, Michael and Danny discuss how to build a company culture, tips for working in the service industry, and why you should never ask someone “How are you?”

What began as a labor of love for documentarian and former journalist Joanna James--making the documentary A Fine Line, about her mother Val--turned into an organization, MAPP, that supports women in food organizations through mentorship and advocacy. After a recent kick-off event for their coast-to-coast programming and events for 2023 at New York City's Union Square Cafe, Joanna, Val, and three MAPP ambassadors/board members--Mo Carter, Amanda Mack, and Georgeann Leaming--gathered to discuss the organization's genesis, its multi-pronged approach to a variety of challenges that women in the industry continue to confront today, and share a few personal success stories facilitated by MAPP. Visit MAPP's website.Learn about the Conference in Miami, Florida (May 1, 2023).Follow MAPP on Instagram and/or follow A Fine Line.Listen to Joanna's conversation with Andrew from 2020.Andrew's next book The Dish: The Lives and Labor Behind One Plate of Food is now available for preorder! Please consider purchasing your copy/copies in advance and help the book have a great lift-off.Andrew Talks to Chefs is a fully independent podcast and no longer affiliated with our former host network; please visit and bookmark our official website for all show updates, blog posts, personal and virtual appearances, and related news.

Move over Charlie Sheen, there's a new bad boy in town, and his name is Bobby Flay! Folks, it's time for a trip down memory lane, and the path is slathered in Mango Salsa! Join us for two hilarious NYT reviews of Union Square Cafe and Mesa Grill, and save room for the Blue Corn Crusted everything! Heritage Radio Network is a listener supported nonprofit podcast network. Support Life's A Banquet by becoming a member!Life's A Banquet is Powered by Simplecast.

Today I talked to Will Guidara, author of Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect (Optimism Press, 2022). Will Guidara was twenty-six when he took the helm of Eleven Madison Park, a struggling two-star brasserie that had never quite lived up to its majestic room. Eleven years later, EMP was named the best restaurant in the world. How did Guidara pull off this unprecedented transformation? Radical reinvention, a true partnership between the kitchen and the dining room—and memorable, over-the-top, bespoke hospitality. Guidara's team surprised a family who had never seen snow with a magical sledding trip to Central Park after their dinner; they filled a private dining room with sand, complete with mai-tais and beach chairs, to console a couple with a cancelled vacation. And his hospitality extended beyond those dining at the restaurant to his own team, who learned to deliver praise and criticism with intention; why the answer to some of the most pernicious business dilemmas is to give more—not less; and the magic that can happen when a busser starts thinking like an owner. Today, every business can choose to be a hospitality business—and we can all transform ordinary transactions into extraordinary experiences. Featuring sparkling stories of his journey through restaurants, with the industry's most famous players like Daniel Boulud and Danny Meyer, Guidara urges us all to find the magic in what we do—for ourselves, the people we work with, and the people we serve. Christopher Russell (Host) spent 35 years working for some of the leading hospitality groups in the country, starting with the Clyde's Restaurant Group in his native Washington D.C. and with Union Square Hospitality Group, Patina Restaurant Group, and Restaurant Associates in New York City. He is honored to have been director of restaurant operations at both Mets (Opera and Museum), and to have been entrusted with roles at Gramercy Tavern where he was a member of the opening service team and Union Square Cafe (16th Street) where he served as General Manager. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Today I talked to Will Guidara, author of Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect (Optimism Press, 2022). Will Guidara was twenty-six when he took the helm of Eleven Madison Park, a struggling two-star brasserie that had never quite lived up to its majestic room. Eleven years later, EMP was named the best restaurant in the world. How did Guidara pull off this unprecedented transformation? Radical reinvention, a true partnership between the kitchen and the dining room—and memorable, over-the-top, bespoke hospitality. Guidara's team surprised a family who had never seen snow with a magical sledding trip to Central Park after their dinner; they filled a private dining room with sand, complete with mai-tais and beach chairs, to console a couple with a cancelled vacation. And his hospitality extended beyond those dining at the restaurant to his own team, who learned to deliver praise and criticism with intention; why the answer to some of the most pernicious business dilemmas is to give more—not less; and the magic that can happen when a busser starts thinking like an owner. Today, every business can choose to be a hospitality business—and we can all transform ordinary transactions into extraordinary experiences. Featuring sparkling stories of his journey through restaurants, with the industry's most famous players like Daniel Boulud and Danny Meyer, Guidara urges us all to find the magic in what we do—for ourselves, the people we work with, and the people we serve. Christopher Russell (Host) spent 35 years working for some of the leading hospitality groups in the country, starting with the Clyde's Restaurant Group in his native Washington D.C. and with Union Square Hospitality Group, Patina Restaurant Group, and Restaurant Associates in New York City. He is honored to have been director of restaurant operations at both Mets (Opera and Museum), and to have been entrusted with roles at Gramercy Tavern where he was a member of the opening service team and Union Square Cafe (16th Street) where he served as General Manager. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/food

Today I talked to Will Guidara, author of Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect (Optimism Press, 2022). Will Guidara was twenty-six when he took the helm of Eleven Madison Park, a struggling two-star brasserie that had never quite lived up to its majestic room. Eleven years later, EMP was named the best restaurant in the world. How did Guidara pull off this unprecedented transformation? Radical reinvention, a true partnership between the kitchen and the dining room—and memorable, over-the-top, bespoke hospitality. Guidara's team surprised a family who had never seen snow with a magical sledding trip to Central Park after their dinner; they filled a private dining room with sand, complete with mai-tais and beach chairs, to console a couple with a cancelled vacation. And his hospitality extended beyond those dining at the restaurant to his own team, who learned to deliver praise and criticism with intention; why the answer to some of the most pernicious business dilemmas is to give more—not less; and the magic that can happen when a busser starts thinking like an owner. Today, every business can choose to be a hospitality business—and we can all transform ordinary transactions into extraordinary experiences. Featuring sparkling stories of his journey through restaurants, with the industry's most famous players like Daniel Boulud and Danny Meyer, Guidara urges us all to find the magic in what we do—for ourselves, the people we work with, and the people we serve. Christopher Russell (Host) spent 35 years working for some of the leading hospitality groups in the country, starting with the Clyde's Restaurant Group in his native Washington D.C. and with Union Square Hospitality Group, Patina Restaurant Group, and Restaurant Associates in New York City. He is honored to have been director of restaurant operations at both Mets (Opera and Museum), and to have been entrusted with roles at Gramercy Tavern where he was a member of the opening service team and Union Square Cafe (16th Street) where he served as General Manager. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Read the entire Distillation of Danny Meyer HERE Also checkout past Dillations of people like Michael Jordan, Bob Iger, Josh Waitzkin & many more by CLICKING HERE Danny Meyer is the Founder & Executive Chairman of Union Square Hospitality Group and a lifelong restaurateur. Danny grew up in a family that relished great food and hospitality. Thanks to his father's travel business, which designed custom European trips, Danny spent much of his childhood eating, visiting near and far-off places, and sowing the seeds for his future passion. In 1985, at the age of 27, Danny opened his first restaurant, Union Square Cafe, launching what would become a lifelong career in hospitality.  Thirty years later, Danny's Union Square Hospitality Group (USHG) comprises some of New York's most beloved and acclaimed restaurants, including Gramercy Tavern, The Modern, Maialino, and more. Danny and USHG founded Shake Shack, the modern-day “roadside” burger restaurant, which became a public company in 2015. Under Danny's leadership, USHG is renowned not only for its acclaimed restaurants but also for its distinctive and celebrated culture of Enlightened Hospitality. This guiding principle of prioritizing employees first and foremost has driven and shaped USHG's ongoing evolution from a small group of restaurants into a multi-faceted hospitality organization. Danny and USHG's diverse ventures have added to the hospitality dialogue in many contexts including dining options in museums, sports arenas, and cultural institutions, as well as prescient investments in burgeoning neighborhoods.  Danny has been generously recognized for his leadership, business achievements, and humanitarianism, including the 2017 Julia Child Award, the 2015 TIME 100 “Most Influential People” list, the 2012 Aspen Institute Preston Robert Tisch Award in Civic Leadership, the 2011 NYU Lewis Rudin Award for Exemplary Service to New York City, and the 2000 IFMA Gold Plate Award. Together, Danny and USHG's restaurants and individuals have won an unprecedented 28 James Beard Awards, including Outstanding Restaurateur (2005) and Who's Who of Food and Beverage in America (1996)  This Distillation will unpack the signature business and life principles that translate to a wide range of industries that I've learned from Danny over the years. The main themes being unpacked are:  Understanding the importance of Hospitality for every business.  The never ending pursuit of excellence.  The keys to leadership and the ways to develop other leaders.  The essential frameworks and practices for hiring & building culture.  How to use mistakes to your advantage.  You Unleashed Course  50% off You Unleashed is an online personal development course created by Sean DeLaney after spending years working with an interviewing high achievers.The online course that helps you ‘Unleash your potential'! You Unleashed teaches you the MINDSETS, ROUTINES and BEHAVIORS you need to unleash your potential and discover what you're capable of. You know you're capable of more and want to bring out that untapped potential inside of you. We teach you how. Enroll Today for only $99!- Click Here Subscribe to my Momentum Monday Newsletter Connect with us! Whatgotyouthere TikTok YouTube Twitter Instagram 

This episode features Corey Fitzsimmons of Method Spirits. Corey was a bartender in New York City for over a decade. He had the honor of being the head bartender at the new location for the Union Square Cafe. He quickly discovered the he was not able to source local vermouth that would work for classic cocktails. He began working on a vermouth using his own recipes and exploring opportunities. This took him to going out on his own to develop Method Spirits. He and his partners spent 2 years developing the recipe for their sweet vermouth. We have to share that it is delicious and complex. It gives wonderful depth and character to cocktails and it stands on its own neat or with a little club soda. Keep an eye out for the dry vermouth that they have created. www.MethodSpirits.com - Instagram Highlights from our discussion: Bar Convent Brooklyn Union Square Cafe Swedish Hill Vineyard & Winery Finger Lakes Distilling Danny Meyer

This week, host Colbert Cannon is joined by iconic restaurateur Danny Meyer, the founder and Executive Chairman of Union Square Hospitality Group behind notable dining concepts including Shake Shack, Union Square Cafe and Gramercy Tavern. Danny shares how a series of people and events, from a discerning uncle who turned Danny away from pursuing law school to a close friend who connected him to his first restaurant job, led him to the business of good food – and even better hospitality. We hear how Danny brings that ethos to every team he leads and shares his tips for creating a company culture of belonging that extends to the customer. We also find out how his groundbreaking, global fast-casual concept Shake Shake started as a hotdog cart in Madison Square Park as part of a broader revitalization plan for the public green space – plus, why fast-casual and Michelin-star restaurants aren't that different. Learn more about Danny Meyer's tenure at Union Square Hospitality Group here. Watch The Bear, Colbert's Best Idea for this week, here. And check out Danny's impromptu recommendation, the Swedish TV seriesThe Restaurant, here.

Los platillos transmiten la energía detrás de ellos. Felicidad y autenticidad, el sello de la chef Mariana. Acompáñanos a conocer parte de su historia gastronómica y las etapas que he vivido hasta hoy su presente. The Culinary Institute Of America, Union Square Cafe, Verde, Pujol, Cosme, Fulgurances y Grupo Contramar, parte de lo que escucharemos en esta charla. ¡Bienvenidos a Sounds Of Food!

The film nerds at Pixar. The badasses on SEAL Team Six. The suave servers at Union Square Cafe. What do they all have in common? Strong team culture. But what exactly is culture, and how do you build it? Daniel Coyle has spent the last few years searching for answers. In this episode, he shares what he's found.

This week, Colbert sits down with Amor Towles, the author of several New York Times bestselling novels including A Gentleman in Moscow and Rules of Civility. We hear about Amor's long road back to writing, after spending two decades as a finance executive at Select Equity. Amor offers a look into his writing process and shares practical advice about how to carve out time for passion projects that could turn into a new career chapter. We also discuss how Amor's business background helped him navigate the publishing industry.Learn more about Amor and his writing here. You can check out Colbert's Best Idea for this week, Union Square Cafe, and how to order items to ship nationally here.

Jill Rowe is a multi-passionate and serial entrepreneur who has several startups under her belt including running her own Southern Food restaurant that she created from concept to cooking. Her career began after being discovered shortly after starting college by the famous model turned model agency owner, Wilhelmina. Jill lived and modeled around the world, working with some of the best in the business: Herb Ritts, David Bailey, and Sante D'Orazio to name a few. She then followed her passion for all things cultural by working in the art world at two prestigious contemporary art galleries in NYC. Jill also spent time working in feature film production before starting her first business, The Kitchen, a southern food restaurant in Upstate NY, where she was head chef and baker. After several successful years, she sold her share to her business partner and returned to NY landing at the beloved Danny Meyer flagship restaurant, Union Square Cafe, where she became Assistant General Manager, and received a first-level Sommelier certification. Jill brings all of her passion, skills and knowledge to her role as the co-founder of the organic skincare & wellness brand Cultivate Apothecary: cultivated, formulated and bottled at Stonegate Farm in the Hudson Valley, where she lives.  --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/skincareanarchy/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/skincareanarchy/support

Born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri, Danny Meyer grew up in a family that relished great food and hospitality. Thanks to his father's travel business, which designed custom European trips, Danny spent much of his childhood eating, visiting near and far-off places, and sowing the seeds for his future passion. In 1985, at the age of 27, Danny opened his first restaurant, Union Square Cafe, launching what would become a lifelong career in hospitality.  Thirty years later, Danny's Union Square Hospitality Group (USHG) comprises some of New York's most beloved and acclaimed restaurants, including Gramercy Tavern, The Modern, Maialino, and more. Danny and USHG founded Shake Shack, the modern-day “roadside” burger restaurant, which became a public company in 2015. USHG also offers large-scale event services, foodservice solutions for public and private institutions, industry consulting, and educational programming.  Under Danny's leadership, USHG is renowned not only for its acclaimed restaurants but also for its distinctive and celebrated culture of Enlightened Hospitality. This guiding principle of prioritizing employees first and foremost has driven and shaped USHG's ongoing evolution from a small group of restaurants into a multi-faceted hospitality organization. Danny and USHG's diverse ventures have added to the hospitality dialogue in many contexts including dining options in museums, sports arenas, and cultural institutions, as well as prescient investments in burgeoning neighborhoods. Danny's groundbreaking business book, Setting the Table (HarperCollins, 2006), a New York Times Bestseller, articulates a set of signature business and life principles that translate to a wide range of industries. A celebrated speaker and educator, Danny has set industry standards in areas such as hiring practices, innovative leadership, and corporate responsibility and addresses a wide range of audiences on such topics around the country. Danny has been generously recognized for his leadership, business achievements, and humanitarianism, including the 2017 Julia Child Award, the 2015 TIME 100 “Most Influential People” list, the 2012 Aspen Institute Preston Robert Tisch Award in Civic Leadership, the 2011 NYU Lewis Rudin Award for Exemplary Service to New York City, and the 2000 IFMA Gold Plate Award. Together, Danny and USHG's restaurants and individuals have won an unprecedented 28 James Beard Awards, including Outstanding Restaurateur (2005) and Who's Who of Food and Beverage in America (1996). Danny and his wife, Audrey, live in New York City and have four children. On this episode of What's Burning, Danny Meyer's chat with Host Mitchell Davis includes conversation around hospitality as the most potent business input, relying on one's "north star", and managing through uncertain times.

Today on Subscribing to Wellness we are joined by Mark Leavitt, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Enlightened Hopitatilty Investments. Mark serves on the boards of Joe Coffee, Salt & Straw, Goldbelly, Dig and Banza. He also sits on the board of Union Square Hospitatlity Group. In 2020, Mark was included in Nation's Restaurant News' Top 50 Technology Power List which features the 50 most influential leaders of technology and innovation in the restaurant industry. Mark Leavitt Fun Facts: 1) Union Square Hospitality Group has created some of New York's most beloved restaurants, cafes, and bars including Grammercy Tavern, Daily Provisions, and Union Square Cafe. 2) The EHI portfolio includes some iconic brands in the food and dining ecosystem including Banza, Resy, Tacombi, and NotCo. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/subtowellness/support

Union Square Cafe. Gramercy Tavern. Shake Shack. Danny Meyer doesn't open restaurants. He opens institutions. In this conversation, the legendary restaurateur shares what he's learned about leading in crisis, how he developed his 'hospitality quotient' philosophy, and why he believes in cultivating a culture of experimentation and risk-taking.

Christopher Russell joins us today, first as a psychoanalyst in private practice in New York City, but also as a 40-year veteran of the hospitality industry. Christopher started by serving tables at Gramercy Tavern in NYC, and went on to become the General Manager and Wine Director at Union Square Cafe, as well as both Mets (The Metropolitan Opera and The Metropolitan Museum of Art). In addition to his practice, Christopher is a host on the podcast New Books in Psychoanalysis. Today we talk with Christopher about why he thinks so many restaurant workers are not returning to the profession, and how he used his love of psychoanalysis in his restaurant jobs. We also take a deep look into grief - what it is, how it manifests, and how we can get through it. Sponsored Promotions: Check out Hootananny Wines for delicious organic and biodynamic wines Interested in sponsoring us? Visit our Patreon page to see the levels of sponsorship or donate here. Show Notes: Steven Olson Danny Meyer Setting the Table Sweetbitter Lance Armstrong US Open Tennis Holly Johnson Matthew Fox Julian Barnes Kat Kinsman Chefs with Issues --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/finelinepodcast/support

We have a very special episode to share with you all, featuring the one and only Danny Meyer. We had the pleasure of hosting Danny (virtually) in our offices for a fireside chat with our CEO, Jordan Boesch. Danny went over his career, philosophy on hiring for his teams, the state of the restaurant industry, the early days of restaurant technology, and answered some questions from our team. It's an episode that you don't want to miss. We hope you enjoy it as much as we did. About Danny Meyer Born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri, Danny Meyer grew up in a family that relished great food and hospitality. Thanks to his father's travel business, which designed custom European trips, Danny spent much of his childhood eating, visiting near and far-off places, and sowing the seeds for his future passion. In 1985, at the age of 27, Danny opened his first restaurant, Union Square Cafe, launching what would become a lifelong career in hospitality. Thirty years later, Danny's Union Square Hospitality Group (USHG) comprises some of New York's most beloved and acclaimed restaurants, including Gramercy Tavern, The Modern, Maialino, and more. Danny and USHG founded Shake Shack, the modern-day “roadside” burger restaurant, which became a public company in 2015. USHG also offers large-scale event services, foodservice solutions for public and private institutions, industry consulting, and educational programming. Under Danny's leadership, USHG is renowned not only for its acclaimed restaurants but also for its distinctive and celebrated culture of Enlightened Hospitality. This guiding principle of prioritizing employees first and foremost has driven and shaped USHG's ongoing evolution from a small group of restaurants into a multi-faceted hospitality organization. Danny and USHG's diverse ventures have added to the hospitality dialogue in many contexts including dining options in museums, sports arenas, and cultural institutions, as well as prescient investments in burgeoning neighborhoods. Danny's groundbreaking business book, Setting the Table (HarperCollins, 2006), a New York Times Bestseller, articulates a set of signature business and life principles that translate to a wide range of industries. A celebrated speaker and educator, Danny has set industry standards in areas such as hiring practices, innovative leadership, and corporate responsibility and addresses a wide range of audiences on such topics around the country. Danny has been generously recognized for his leadership, business achievements, and humanitarianism, including the 2017 Julia Child Award, the 2015 TIME 100 “Most Influential People” list, the 2012 Aspen Institute Preston Robert Tisch Award in Civic Leadership, the 2011 NYU Lewis Rudin Award for Exemplary Service to New York City, and the 2000 IFMA Gold Plate Award. Together, Danny and USHG's restaurants and individuals have won an unprecedented 28 James Beard Awards, including Outstanding Restaurateur (2005) and Who's Who of Food and Beverage in America (1996). Danny and his wife, Audrey, live in New York City and have four children. About 7shifts 7shifts is a team management platform designed for restaurants. We help managers and operators spend less time and effort scheduling their staff, reduce their monthly labor costs and streamline team communication. The result is simplified labor management, one shift at a time.

We have a very special episode to share with you all, featuring the one and only Danny Meyer. We had the pleasure of hosting Danny (virtually) in our offices for a fireside chat with our CEO, Jordan Boesch. Danny went over his career, philosophy on hiring for his teams, the state of the restaurant industry, the early days of restaurant technology, and answered some questions from our team. It's an episode that you don't want to miss. We hope you enjoy it as much as we did.About Danny MeyerBorn and raised in St. Louis, Missouri, Danny Meyer grew up in a family that relished great food and hospitality. Thanks to his father's travel business, which designed custom European trips, Danny spent much of his childhood eating, visiting near and far-off places, and sowing the seeds for his future passion. In 1985, at the age of 27, Danny opened his first restaurant, Union Square Cafe, launching what would become a lifelong career in hospitality. Thirty years later, Danny's Union Square Hospitality Group (USHG) comprises some of New York's most beloved and acclaimed restaurants, including Gramercy Tavern, The Modern, Maialino, and more. Danny and USHG founded Shake Shack, the modern-day “roadside” burger restaurant, which became a public company in 2015. USHG also offers large-scale event services, foodservice solutions for public and private institutions, industry consulting, and educational programming. Under Danny's leadership, USHG is renowned not only for its acclaimed restaurants but also for its distinctive and celebrated culture of Enlightened Hospitality. This guiding principle of prioritizing employees first and foremost has driven and shaped USHG's ongoing evolution from a small group of restaurants into a multi-faceted hospitality organization.Danny and USHG's diverse ventures have added to the hospitality dialogue in many contexts including dining options in museums, sports arenas, and cultural institutions, as well as prescient investments in burgeoning neighborhoods.Danny's groundbreaking business book, Setting the Table (HarperCollins, 2006), a New York Times Bestseller, articulates a set of signature business and life principles that translate to a wide range of industries. A celebrated speaker and educator, Danny has set industry standards in areas such as hiring practices, innovative leadership, and corporate responsibility and addresses a wide range of audiences on such topics around the country.Danny has been generously recognized for his leadership, business achievements, and humanitarianism, including the 2017 Julia Child Award, the 2015 TIME 100 “Most Influential People” list, the 2012 Aspen Institute Preston Robert Tisch Award in Civic Leadership, the 2011 NYU Lewis Rudin Award for Exemplary Service to New York City, and the 2000 IFMA Gold Plate Award. Together, Danny and USHG's restaurants and individuals have won an unprecedented 28 James Beard Awards, including Outstanding Restaurateur (2005) and Who's Who of Food and Beverage in America (1996).Danny and his wife, Audrey, live in New York City and have four children.About 7shifts7shifts is a team management platform designed for restaurants. We help managers and operators spend less time and effort scheduling their staff, reduce their monthly labor costs and streamline team communication. The result is simplified labor management, one shift at a time.

Such an illuminating conversation with David Rockwell today. David shared with Hal the importance of community theater in his childhood, his approach to designing the factory space for Kinky Boots, and why he thinks theater is miraculous. David Rockwell, FAIA, is the founder and President of Rockwell Group, an interdisciplinary architecture and design firm based in New York, with satellite offices in Los Angeles and Madrid, that merges theater, performance and architecture to create extraordinary experiences and built environments across the globe. Notable projects include the Hayes Theater (New York); Union Square Cafe and Daily Provisions (New York); TED Theater (Vancouver, BC); the headquarters for Warner Music Group (Los Angeles); Nobu restaurants and hotels worldwide(including Nobu Downtown and Nobu Hotel Barcelona); The Shed (Diller Scofidio + Renfro, Lead Architect and Rockwell Group, Collaborating Architect); Equinox Hotel (New York); Moxy hotels (Times Square, Chelsea, East Village and South Beach); and set designs for more than 60 productions, including Kiss Me Kate, Tootsie, She Loves Me, Kinky Boots, and Hairspray. Honors include a Tony Award for Best Scenic Design for She Loves Me; the 2015 AIANY President’s Award; the 2008 National Design Award from the Cooper-Hewitt National Design Museum for outstanding achievement in Interior Design; the 2009 Pratt Legends Award; and the Presidential Design Award. To see David’s latest projects, visit RockwellGroup.com or follow them on Instagram @RockwellGroup. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Having gone through the most difficult period in history with an unprecedented shutdown during the Covid pandemic, restaurants and their sommeliers and beverage directors are in a new world and need to evolve.  Mia Van de Water MS, of Cote Korean Steakhouse and the United Sommeliers Foundation, explains everything that has happened in the world of wine and restaurants.  From the scandals at the Court of Master Sommeliers to the pivots restaurants have done during Covid to the work of the United Sommeliers Foundation, Mia takes us through the many evolutions and the future of sommeliers. Detailed Show Notes: A 20-year career in restaurants started in high schoolLearned how to talk about wine from distributor rep trainingsRead Setting the Table, worked at Union Square Cafe and North End Grill for 9 years, became sommelier and beverage director at North EndShe spent 3 years at Eleven Madison Park for the ultra-fine dining experienceDuring Covid - worked retail with Whole Foods and other retailNow works with Victoria James at Cote Korean SteakhouseBecame a Master Sommelier from the Court of Master Sommeliers (“CMS”) in 2018Part of the class that had to retake the tasting exam from the “Cheating” Scandal in Sept 2018“Cheating” Scandal was when an examiner released info via email about two wines on the exam to some candidates but was unsolicited, so candidates weren’t “cheating”She re-took the exam in Dec 2018 and passedBLM / sexual harassment scandals - has discouraged many people from taking the CMS routeCurrently on the Board of the CMSThe CMS started as a fraternal brotherhood of wine geeksToday - trying to re-orient the focus off the membership and onto the candidates -> building towards a better, more inclusive, safer, and a more engaging experienceThe definition of a beverage director and sommelierKey qualities - leadership and hospitalityService is a critical component of the job - should be excellent at bussing tables, running food, etc.…Job is to build relationships with guests, creating magical experiences from the beginning to the endThe Beverage director is also responsible for the financial health of the beverage program, which is the health of the restaurantPennsylvania - restaurants need to buy wine at the same price as consumers from the state liquor store -> has driven a lot of BYO“Dollars trump cost of goods”Mia’s strategy is to encourage people to buy more wine than they would otherwiseStill need a COGS engine, which is usually the BTG program (higher margin)Encourages people to purchase a bottlePre-2020 trends (more NY oriented)BTG prices had gone up substantiallyTons of new fancy, a la carte restaurants being openedEveryone needed a fancy craft cocktail programLarger wine listsMore floor sommeliersNatural wine was popularCovid pivotsCNN reported 110,000 (17%) restaurants closed in the US in 2020Bev to go: Retail bottle sales, wine by the glass in small bottles, blind tasting kitsThe United Sommeliers FoundationFounded by Chris Blanchard and Christie NormanAim to financially assist floor sommeliers during the restaurant shutdownExpanded to general wine and beverage industry folks in restaurantsRaised money via auctions and donations from people and wineriesRaised ~$1MTwo types of grants$500 base grants - granted to ~1,000 people, sized to avoid tax liability“Grand Cru Scholarships” - paid expenses directly to creditorsApplications still open for those in needHope to continue to live on post-pandemic -> in the process of trying to identify what the future purpose will beSommelier role going forwardEveryone needs to wear more hatsSomms need to become more financially savvy

Jeff Taibe & Steph Sweeney are the owners of Taproot in Bethel, CT. Taibe previously served as the Executive Chef of Kawa Ni (Westport), a Japanese izakaya serving globally inspired small plates and ramen, and Oak and Almond (Norwalk), a New American restaurant featuring farm-to-table wood-fired fare. Prior to bringing his simple and seasonal cooking style to Connecticut's burgeoning restaurant scene, Taibe earned his stripes all over the globe. His resume includes positions in Thailand, St. Pierre (Singapore), and Beaches (Turk & Caicos), as well stints at Abigail Kirsch and Union Square Cafe in his native New York. Jeff and I had such a fun conversation live in the Sweet N Up Podcast studio talking all things Taproot, the new menu, what its like cooking all over the globe, his culinary icons, learning about food and culture and so much more! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Danny Meyer – Restaurateur Location: Union Square Cafe in New York City Danny Meyer has owned and operated restaurants in New York City for more than 3 and a half decades. He opened his favorite restaurant, the Union Square Cafe, in 1985. Since then he has opened the famed Gramercy Tavern, Tabla, Blue Smoke and so many others. His latest venture Shake Shack - a modern twist on a simple burger and soda - exploded onto the scene and now has outposts in cities all over the country. His commitment to hospitality and excellence in dining has earned him the reputation as one of the industry's gold standards of hospitality. Please enjoy my conversation with Danny Meyer. Follow To Dine For:Official Website: ToDineForTV.comFacebook: Facebook.com/ToDineForTVInstagram: @ToDineForTVTwitter: @KateSullivanTVEmail: ToDineForTV@gmail.com Thank You to our Sponsors!American National InsuranceSpiritless - Use promo code TODINEFOR for free shipping Follow Our Guest:Official Site: USHGNYC.comFacebook: Facebook.com/DannyHMeyerInstagram: @dhmeyerTwitter: @dhmeyer Follow The Restaurant:Official Website: UnionSquareCafe.comFacebook: Facebook.com/UnionSquareCafeInstagram: @UnionSquareCafe 

Chasing Flavor: Techniques and Recipes to Cook FearlesslyBy Dan Kluger Intro: Welcome to the number one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book with Suzy Chase. She's just a home cook in New York City, sitting at her dining room table talking to cookbook authors.Dan Kluger: I'm Dan Kluger, and we are talking about my new cookbook called Chasing Flavor.Suzy Chase: If you enjoy Cookery by the Book please tell a friend I'm always looking for new people to enjoy the podcast. Now on with the show. You are the quintessential New York chef, you've worked under and alongside some of the great names in the restaurant world. Danny Meyer, Jean-Georges, Tom Colicchio, and Floyd Cardoz who we lost to COVID in April. Can you talk a little bit about how all of these guys influenced your cooking style?Dan Kluger: I started in the front of the house at Danny Meyer's Union Square Cafe and had really no idea that I would someday become a chef. I was really just spending my days off in the kitchen to learn a little about what goes on back there in the hopes that it would become an owner someday. I should know what goes on. And Michael Romano, who was the chef at Union Square Cafe at the time ended up offering me a job. So I started, I think it was back in 1995 as a prep cook, just peeling potatoes and frying calimari and cleaning salad greens. And it was an eye opening experience to begin with. But, you know, really taught me about the basics of food. It taught me about the basics of production of food, and it opened my eyes to some incredible Italian food. When, when Michael Romano was cooking his Italian food, it was not always you know, what we think of as Italian food. It was from areas all over Italy and he would hone in on something really specific. And so there's a lesson to go with it, which I really loved as a young cook. So, you know, I got a little taste of, of, uh, cooking, a little taste of food and flavorful food and great products from the farmer's market all while working at a place that I had originally worked in front of the house. And so I was tied to hospitality and it was tied to taking care of people. I think that really kind of spawned the interest in this for me and specifically the interest in not just cooking, but cooking to really make people happy and, and bring the whole experience. So that was my time at Union Square Cafe and towards the end of it I was really fortunate enough to be friend Floyd Cardoz who was working out of Union Square Cafe as he was building Tabla and doing menu tastings and his food was incredible. And, uh, you know, at that time it was kind of like nothing else. And Michael Romano was also a huge fan of Indian food so they shared a love for it. I think that's in part why Tabla became Tabla. I didn't grow up eating Indian food and I didn't grow up really with really any ethnic food other than going out for Chinese food and once a month with my parents, so it was really an eye opening experience and a great opportunity. And through that, I ended up going with Floyd to open Tabla and I worked actually alongside him for seven years. And again, like just every day was a learning experience, both in the culture behind the Indian food and the flavors of Indian food and then because this was not just your average Indian restaurant and it was really American and French techniques with Indian spices. I learned so much about technique and building flavor and so I would really credit Floyd as having started my taste buds and my love for this balance of flavor. That's something we talk a lot about in the book I've talked about throughout my career. And, uh, after seven years there, I went off to work with Tom Colicchio on a private club in Midtown. He was a consulting chef and he hired me as a chef and so now going to work for him, I was able to really hone my skills on what I consider American food and what I consider my food today. And then from there I met Jean-Georges and decided to go work with him. I opened a couple different projects for him, but ultimately ended up becoming the chef of ABC Kitchen, which opened, I guess it was 2009, 2010, somewhere in there, and was really based on farm to table nothing could be from further than 150 miles with the exception of our olive oil and our lemons and things like that. So I was able to really polish and hone my skills on flavor using these products and under his tutelage and within this incredible setting of a brand new restaurant. And then I opened Loring Place back in 2016. And here we are today with, with Chasing Flavor. It's a culmination of all those experiences tied into a book that I want it to act as a way for people to become more comfortable with both flavor building techniques, whether it's charring or roasting or smoking, as well as comfortable and confident in terms of building a pantry that they can use with all sorts of different products to create these really flavorful meals.Suzy Chase: Okay. Before we talk about Chasing Flavor, I have to tell you a funny, kind of New Yorky tidbit. I remember when chef Cardoz opened Tabla in 1998, and I could only afford to go to The Bread Bar downstairs, but it was amazing. It was the less expensive alternative. You kind of got a little bit of what was going on upstairs and the onion rings were amazing.Dan Kluger: Yes, they were, yes they were. Yeah. It was an incredible restaurant again, you know the right place, the right time to launch Indian inspired concept that really could speak to lots of different people, whether it was through The Bread Bar, which was this home-style Indian kind of street food menu or upstairs, which was, kind of the crème de la crème of ingredients and techniques to showcase these Indian spices.Suzy Chase: So the month that Loring Place opened, I had Mimi Sheraton on my podcast. And since she's a neighborhood gal, I asked her what her favorite restaurant was and she said, Loring Place. And I was like, what? What's that? And she said, "Oh, it's on eighth street. It's my favorite restaurant." And I was like, oh my gosh, I have to check it out. And so let me just talk about where it's located. So it's located in Greenwich village on eighth street, practically across the street from Electric Lady studios and for the longest time eighth street wasn't, shall I say, the most desirable street? And I feel like you made the street, what it is today. How did you discover that location?Dan Kluger: I don't think I made it what it is today, but I was certainly able to be a, I guess, a big part of, um, it's change and what it's become today, but really I would give the credit to my friends who own Eighth Street Wine Cellar, which is right across the street from me. And they've been around, I think, uh, 14 years now. And I used to come down here a lot after work. And so for me the street was kind of become home. And then probably about seven, eight years ago, uh, The Marlton which is a nice hotel that opened up on the corner and I think really helped Stumptown coffee. And so just through those two places and, and the wine bar, I think we started to see a change in the street, New York in general, started to get a little bit cleaned up from the riff raff that was on that street before and we came in you know, right time before too many restaurants around the block and I was really excited to be part of a neighborhood that I like and a block that I had already seen a bunch of growth on and now be part of its continued growth.Suzy Chase: So I feel like the majority of your career has been centered around the Union Square Greenmarket. Can you share some of your shopping strategies for going to any green market? Like, do you come with a list? Do you have the route mapped out before you get there? Or do you just walk from one end to the other, which is what I do?Dan Kluger: It's all of the above. We're shopping for the restaurant there's obviously a list. What do we know we need? And if we need 10 flats of tomatoes to get us through the weekend, we will probably, pre-order five of them from one of our favorite farmers. And then we'll spend the rest of the time walking around finding the other five so that we kind of distribute amongst other farmers and we're able to pick up tomatoes and taste them as we go. In terms of restaurant, that's a big part of it, but it was not as targeted as that. If I'm not shopping for the restaurant, I'm shopping more for menu development or for myself, then it's really more a matter of I like to walk through with really open-mind looking for whether it's something new or something that I didn't really expect to pick up and cook with, but was sort of inspired at that moment.Suzy Chase: You believe that every recipe should leave us with something beyond a tasty dish. Can you talk a little bit about your takeaways?Dan Kluger: Every recipe as you said, has something called the takeaway .The takeaway could be that this chili sesame condiment is great on the arctic char, but it can also be used not for a raw fish dish. You can braise tomatoes in it and serve it with poached halibut, or the takeaway could be something as simple as, you know, how we cook our parmesan croutons and that's something that, again, they're, they're there for a specific soup, but they can also be used on a salad, or it could be about how we marinate something or how we roast something to get enough caramelization on it that, you know, something like a brussel sprout is still creamy, but now it's crunchy. It's got a little bitterness, it's got extra sweetness from that caramelization. So again, the idea is that we're giving you the confidence to use these skills, whether it's the key ingredient or a full dish.Suzy Chase: So normally you write a recipe for the kitchen staff, how much tweaking did you have to do for us home cooks in this cookbook?Dan Kluger: There's certainly some where we simplified them a little bit, maybe a restaurant recipe, we make an herb oil that has to hang overnight and was a little more time consuming and expensive and in this case we just chopped herbs. So the idea behind any recipe that's in there is still that dish at its best.Suzy Chase: You talk about elderflower syrup in this cookbook, which is one of your secret ingredients for salad dressings.Dan Kluger: We used a lot at ABC, but I grew up every summer going to England and elderflower is a big thing there and I remember my grandmother having this bottle of syrup and kind of fell in love with it at a very young age and at ABC, I really kind of learned the versatility of it and started using it in lots of different things from hot sauces to, to vinaigrettes.Suzy Chase: So I grew up in Kansas and corn was everywhere, but I only learned about a corn zipper on page 11 of your cookbook. Where have I been?Dan Kluger: You know I fell in love with the corn zipper many years ago and just found that it's a little bit easier and cleaner than just using a knife, but obviously a knife works really well.Suzy Chase: I need a corn zipper in my life. So let's go back to that magical day in 1995, when you were a student at Syracuse in the food service program, and you were asked to show a special guest around campus.Dan Kluger: I owe the credit to gentlemen named Leon Genet. His children went there and I think he may have even gone there. And so he had an auditorium named after his wife and a lecture series that he sponsored and he used to bring all these different people up to speak, whether it was the CEO of Macy's or Tommy Hilfiger or in this case, Danny Meyer. And Leon and I had kind of hit it off at an early stage of my time at Syracuse. And he said, I got Danny coming, Danny's great I want you to show him around and we set it up and I attended the lunch with Danny and then we took him for a walk around Syracuse campus and we took them to the Carrier Dome and up in bright lights was welcomed Danny Meyer. And we kind of hit it off and after that, I applied to Union Square Cafe to be a summer intern.Suzy Chase: That's a crazy story.Dan Kluger: Yeah. I lucked outSuzy Chase: Totally well, no, you made it happen. You made the magic happen.Dan Kluger: You know, I think I've talked about this other people for when I've said, you know, I lucked out or I was lucky, then they said, no, no, no, you, you made it you've you you've made these things happen and I think I've made things happen and I've used my opportunities to make the best of them. And I certainly not just been handed a silver spoon at the same token. I got very lucky with these things. I got lucky in meeting Danny. I got lucky in meeting Floyd and I got lucky in meeting Tom. I got very lucky in meeting Jean-Georges and you know, those things, I, I truly believe are luck I mean, I worked my tail off to get to those places, but if I hadn't met any of those people, you know who knows where I'd be today. So I do think luck does have something to do with it.Suzy Chase: This cookbook teaches us some new cooking techniques. So why should we use a wire rack when roasting vegetables?Dan Kluger: So the wire rack sometimes called an icing grate, goes on a normal sheet tray is really great for roasting vegetables because you toss the vegetables in some oil you put on top, and as it goes into a hot oven, the hot air of the oven is not only cooking the top of the vegetables and the sides that are exposed, but because it's on the rack it's going underneath and cooking the bottom of them whereas if you just had them on a tray or on a piece of parchment, they're actually going to steam in part. So this, this makes them become, depending on what you're cooking and how you're cooking it. I kind of refer to it as like raisinating them and it starts to dry them out a little bit and intensifies them and that's what I really like about it is you can take something like a butternut squash and roast it on there, and I just find it, it takes more moisture out and it just makes it more naturally intense.Suzy Chase: That's so smart because there's nothing worse than one side that's kind of crispy and caramelized and nice. And the other side is just kind of like wet and goopy a little bit.Dan Kluger: Yep. Exactly. That's what we're trying to avoid.Suzy Chase: I made your recipe for Heirloom Tomato Toast on page 39. And it took me back to the Union Square Cafe days. Can you describe this recipe?Dan Kluger: Yeah. So it's funny that you talked about Union Square you know, every season we had the tomato bruschetta, uh, where we just took ripe tomatoes and tossed them with a little bit of olive oil, salt, and garlic, and put on toasted bread. I thought it was great, obviously very simple, but for me, it was just a little too simple. It was always missing something. And so at one point I decided to make this heirloom toast where I bought, obviously some of the best tomatoes you could find, but then took the toast and rather just grill it we actually toast it with parmesan so you get this crunchy layer parmesan on it, but it makes this like really great layer to put the tomatoes on it, lots of flavor and then we build the tomatoes up. They're sprinkled with salt and olive oil. And what actually happens is they, they leach out a little bit of their liquid. The bread has been toasted, so it's a little bit dry and can take the liquid. And so now you have this like parmesan bread with soft tomatoes and the bread is starting to soak up some of that juice. And so it just to me becomes an incredible flavored toast.Suzy Chase: Now to my segment called Last Night's dinner, where I ask you what you had last night for dinner.Dan Kluger: I made vegan ramen last night. I built this broth by really caramelizing, deep caramelize, the onions and garlic and ginger, and then add it in miso, which is really one of my favorite products and some Korean chili paste and tomato paste and even some vegetable Marmite basically cooked all that together and then finished it with soy and vinegar and all these things by making this really flavorful base. You wouldn't have known that there's no pork fat in there. I mean it was like still really jammy and rich, just like if it was a deep, normal ramen base. So again, it's, to me, it's always about building flavor in stages.Suzy Chase: Before we wrap it up. I want you to tell us about your Thanksgiving dinner kit at Loring Place. It looks delicious and I'm going to order one for my family.Dan Kluger: Awesome. It's all of my favorites, obviously turkey and then we take the breasts we cook that separately, the legs we braise and we bake into an incredible pot pie and then we have roasted spiced acorn squash, we have roasted brussels sprouts, mashed potatoes, cranberry chutney, which has, you know, this sort of Tabla Indian note to it, then stuffing and then last but not least a gravy that I've been making for years with Apple Jack Brandy and apple cider. So you can have dinner on the table and probably a half hour with not a whole lot of work.Suzy Chase: I'll say hey, look what I made everyone. They'll say, this is delicious. Where can we find you on the web social media and your restaurant here in the village?Dan Kluger: Website is dk@dankluger.com. Social media is Dan_Kluger, LoringPlaceNYC,on social media, as well as our new restaurant opening this December called Penny Bridge LIC and then both of them are PennyBridgelic.com and LoringPlacenyc.com.Suzy Chase: Thanks so much Dan, for coming on Cookery by the Book podcast.Dan Kluger: Thank you. It really a pleasure talking to you.Outro: Subscribe over on CookerybytheBook.com. And thanks for listening to the number one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book.

A conversation with David Chang ’99, Founder and Chef, Momofuku and Danny Meyer ’80, P’20, Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Union Square Hospitality Group; Moderated by John Molner ’85, Co-Founder and CEO, KCM Media. Join two of the most recognizable and innovative pioneers in the hospitality and restaurant industry for a conversation about the challenges they face and their efforts to get us back to the table. David Chang ’99 David Chang is the chef and founder of Momofuku. Called one of “the most influential people of the 21st century” by Esquire, David has appeared on numerous television shows, and was the first chef to be featured on the Emmy-award winning PBS television show, “The Mind of a Chef.” His cookbook, Momofuku, is a New York Times bestseller. Along with Academy Award Winning Director Morgan Neville, David is a creative force behind “Ugly Delicious,” an eight-part Netflix original documentary series about foods we love and the stories that shape them. Danny Meyer ’80, P’20 Danny Meyer is the CEO of Union Square Hospitality Group and the founder of Shake Shack. Union Square Hospitality Group comprises some of New York’s most beloved restaurants, including Union Square Cafe, Gramercy Tavern, The Modern, and more. Danny, his restaurants and chefs have earned an unprecedented 28 James Beard Awards, and Danny’s recent personal achievements include the Julia Child Award (2017) and his inclusion on the TIME 100 list of the Most Influential People in the World (2015). Danny’s first business book, Setting the Table (HarperCollins, 2006), a New York Times bestseller, examines the power of hospitality in restaurants, business and life. An active national leader in the fight against hunger, Danny serves on the board of Share Our Strength and has long supported hunger relief initiatives including City Harvest and God’s Love We Deliver. John Molner ’85 John is the co-Founder and CEO of KCM, a New York-based media firm which publishes and produces a range of content including digital news (Wake-Up Call), documentaries, docu-series, podcasts (Next Question and Back to Biz) and live events. Prior to this, John was a General Partner at investment firm, Brown Brothers Harriman. John was responsible for overseeing the firm’s Corporate Advisory business and also participated in selected private equity investment activities. He remains a Limited Partner and Senior Advisor to BBH Capital Partners. John earned an MBA from the Booth School of Business at The University of Chicago and a BA in History from Trinity College ’85. John lives in New York City with his wife, Katie Couric.

Today, I speak with author Dan Coyle. We discuss LOTS of stuff like emotional athletes, the marshmallow experiment, treating "teaming" like a sport, his book The Culture Code, and the central question of the book, which is "Why do some teams add up to be greater than the sum of their parts while others add up to be less?" Dan reveals what he saw while researching eight teams, teams like the San Antonio Spurs, Pixar, and the Union Square Cafe, by going on site and not looking for traits or descriptors but literally watching what he saw physically, what did people actually do when they were doing whatever it is they do. http://danielcoyle.com/ (Daniel Coyle's website here) http://danielcoyle.com/the-culture-code-quiz/ ("How Strong is Your Culture" quiz here)

The Last CourseBy Claudia Flemingwith Melissa Clark Intro: Welcome to the number one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book with Suzy Chase. She's just a home cook in New York City, sitting at her dining room table, talking to cookbook authors.Claudia Fleming: Hi. I'm Claudia Fleming and I'm here to speak about the rerelease and my cookbook, The Last Course.Suzy Chase: For more Cookery by the Book you can follow me on Instagram. If you enjoy this podcast, please be sure to share it with a friend. I'm always looking for new people to enjoy Cookery by the Book. Now, on with the show.Suzy Chase: Personally, the thing I love about The Last Course is it speaks to everyone, perfect for home cooks like me. You are acclaimed for having set an industry-wide standard at New York City's Gramercy Tavern with your James Beard Award-winning desserts. Gramercy Tavern is my all-time favorite restaurant here in the city. Danny Meyer said it so accurately in the cookbook, he wrote Gramercy Tavern strives to combine luxury with warm, down-to-earth hospitality. The New York Times called The Last Course a cult out-of-print cookbook. I'm not alone when I say I'm thrilled you've rereleased it. It's rare for a cookbook to be rereleased, so I'm curious to know why you chose to rerelease it now.Claudia Fleming: It wasn't my choice. The publisher reached out to me and asked if I'd be interested in reissuing the cookbook, and of course I said yes. It was so many years later. Yeah, I mean, I get weekly requests for books and I didn't have books. People were always wanting to buy the book and I guess the demand got back to them and they decided to rerelease, thankfully. Good for me, yay.Suzy Chase: Yeah, good for all of us. Before we dig into the book, I'd like to do a little walk down memory lane.Claudia Fleming: Okay.Suzy Chase: 1984, on 79th Street, you're working at Jonathan Waxman's ode to California cuisine, Jams. Then, Danny Meyer brought you to Union Square Cafe. Then Drew Nieporent hired you as the pastry assistant at Tribeca Grill in 1990. 1994 Tom Colicchio brought you on board Gramercy Tavern. Those are four visionaries in the restaurant business. I mean, what a star-studded list. Can you think of one takeaway that you learned from each of them? Jonathan, Danny, Tom, and Drew?Claudia Fleming: Oh, sure. Well, Jonathan did bring a revolutionary style of cooking and cuisine to New York and it was my first exposure to luxury dining. Every single thing you touched in that restaurant was the very best, the Ginori china, the Hockney paintings, the Italian tiles. Then of course, all the ingredients that he used. I remember there being towers of FedEx boxes that came from California with all those baby vegetables, the likes of which I'd never seen before. It was so incredibly exciting. So I think from Jonathan, it was just his approach to cooking. It was very California, it was very light and laid back. In those days we were still immersed in the French style of dining and cooking and eating, and this was just a whole new world. It was incredibly exciting and I just felt so honored to be in it and part of it.Claudia Fleming: Danny, of course as we know, is just Mr. Hospitality. Danny, I think, brought respect to those of us who worked in the industry that before that time it wasn't a job for educated, ambitious people. It was, and I think still is, a little bit of a place for lost toys or broken toys. The restaurant industry definitely attracts a different kind of personality. But still, Danny gave working in the restaurant industry respect, not to mention his brand of hospitality, which is just warm and inviting and ingratiating and a delight to be around. I mean, he really had a knack for seeking out people whose, I think, driving motivation is to please people.Claudia Fleming: Let's see, Drew. Drew, I have never met a person who remembers names, numbers. He was just the ultimate maitre d'. Of course, he got so much larger than that. He was just more of an entertainer I think than Danny was, but still that same kind of loving people who came to the restaurant and wanting to do anything to make them happy. If you met Drew once, he remembered you forever. I mean, I remember years after working for him, calling him and him calling me back within five minutes. There was no one he didn't get back to. He was amazing that way, or is amazing that way. Follow up, I would say is one of the things that Drew has taught me. Never let a phone call go on answered or a request unintended to.Claudia Fleming: And who was our last name?Suzy Chase: And Tom Colicchio.Claudia Fleming: Oh, Tom. Oh, my mentor. Tom taught me how to cook, taught me how to think about food, taught me about seasonality and locality, and informed the way I cook and create desserts to this day.Suzy Chase: In between Tribeca Grill and Gramercy Tavern, you jetted off to Paris to study pastry. Talk a little bit about that.Claudia Fleming: Jetted off. Wow, that sounds glamorous.Suzy Chase: Doesn't it?Claudia Fleming: It was a little less glamorous. I think I was living on like $20 a week. I would make a pot of lentil soup on Sunday and eat it all week long. Buying myself a piece of cheese was a luxury. Luxurious, it was not. I worked in bakeries, because after having worked in restaurants I wanted a more technically-driven education as opposed to the stylized creations that one learns when you work in a restaurant. I chose bakeries because they are so basic and traditional and technically oriented.Suzy Chase: Growing up, you didn't cook with your mother or grandmother, and you were a dancer. Needless to say, food wasn't at the forefront of your passions or thinking.Claudia Fleming: No.Suzy Chase: When did that pivot?Claudia Fleming: Once I started working at Jams I think, but make no mistake, I mean, my family, Italian-American family and my mother and her sisters were food obsessed. I think from the time they woke up until the time they went to bed, all they did was talk about food or what the next meal was going to be or how to enhance this or make this better. This is so great, but if we just did this, it would be that. I mean, it was never ever far from the forefront of their minds. My mother was an excellent cook, so we always had great food, never a frozen vegetable or a canned vegetable. I remember begging for iceberg lettuce because we had escarole and chicory and I just wanted plain old boring iceberg lettuce.Claudia Fleming: So food was very, very important in my family. I guess as a dancer it was kind of the forbidden fruit, which is perhaps why I was attracted to it. But I would have to say at Jams is when it really became something that I was attracted to as a creative outlet, because it was food cooked and presented in a way that I had never seen or imagined before.Suzy Chase: Do you think because your training wasn't as structured as that of many other pastry chefs, you can come up with interesting flavor combinations, like roasted pineapple with pink peppercorns, by thinking outside the box?Claudia Fleming: I think that's fair to say. I also was very influenced by the cooks in the kitchen. I kind of wanted to do what they were doing and I wanted to sprinkle and saute and not necessarily measure exactly and play with mis en place. So yes, I was open to experimenting and Tom was open to having me do that.Suzy Chase: Speaking of experimenting, one thing I used to love about your desserts at Gramercy Tavern was that it wouldn't be just a slice of cake or a piece of pie. There would be at least three components on the plate that I could tell were so carefully thought out and mind-blowingly delicious. Lucky for us, the last chapter in the cookbook is a collection of your signature composed desserts. Talk a little bit about that.Claudia Fleming: Again, to go back to watching the cooks compose a plate, it's what I wanted to do. I wanted to have a primary element, whether that be the tart or the cake, and then enhance it with something cold or something hot, something crunchy, something tart, an herb, a spice. I was just always looking to make things more complicated than they were. In retrospect, it was such an incredible luxury to be afforded that time to just immerse myself in flavor combinations that weren't necessarily part of the sweet kitchen. I was borrowing from the savory kitchen. I saw chefs and cooks borrower from the sweet side of the kitchen, so I thought, well, why can't I borrow from them or find complimentary things from the savory side that would be equally complimentary to desserts? That was just how I started to approach things.Suzy Chase: You use hard boiled egg yolks in your biscuits. I have never heard of this before. Can you talk a little bit about that?Claudia Fleming: It was something I learned from a woman that I worked with. It is a tenderizer and it's very Austrian. You can find it in a lot of linzer recipes.Suzy Chase: So interesting.Claudia Fleming: I know.Suzy Chase: What does the boiled egg yolk do? Does it make it fluffier, or?Claudia Fleming: It makes the dough more tender or softer.Suzy Chase: Tell me about the North Fork Table and Inn that you opened with your husband, Gerry Hayden, and Mike and Mary Mraz.Claudia Fleming: Yep. Well, let me start by telling you, I sold the North Fork Table and Inn. Last week we closed.Suzy Chase: Congratulations.Claudia Fleming: Thank you, yes, very happy. 15 years, it was a wonderful, challenging, bittersweet time. We went out there to realize a dream. It was very, very hard, but such an amazing experience to work so closely with farmers and fishermen and just all the local purveyors that we used, building relationships, people coming to the back door whenever they had something special that they wanted us to use or try, and being in a small community where everybody is just there to support everybody else. The food community out there developed or evolved so much over the years that we were there, and there were just so many likeminded people wanting to live a kinder, gentler life. It was lovely, albeit incredibly challenging and ultimately not sustainable.Suzy Chase: For the listeners who may not know your husband, that you met at Tribeca Grill, who was a pioneer in the farm to table movement, sadly passed away in 2015 from ALS, and I am so sorry.Claudia Fleming: Thank you.Suzy Chase: Could you talk a bit about cooking and grief? Has baking, cooking, and being in the kitchen helped your heart heal, or has it made it more excruciating?Claudia Fleming: I think it's different at different times. But I have to say, although I'm in the kitchen every day doing production, running a restaurant eclipsed that aspect of being at the restaurant. It's very hard to be creative when every day is crisis management and it was mostly about getting it done most of the time so I could move on to, I don't know, working on PR or solving problems or trying to figure out why we weren't doing more business this Saturday this year than we did last Saturday last year. I mean, it was just constantly evaluating the business and trying to figure it out and rationalize and reason why things were changing so dramatically all the time.Claudia Fleming: I think being busy, I'm not sure that it helps in the healing process, but it's certainly a great distraction. I kind of feel somewhat like I'm waiting to have some time to mourn, frankly, now that the restaurant is closed and I can look back at all the wonderful things we accomplished, but when you're struggling, it's very hard to recognize all that. So I look forward to being able to appreciate what we accomplished now that the struggle is subsided.Suzy Chase: Now that you've closed the inn, what are your plans to start a new chapter in your life?Claudia Fleming: Well, there is a new cookbook in the pipeline. I imagine I'll be consulting. I'm staying on with the new owners of the restaurant to do some consulting on the dessert menu. Hopefully, there'll be some travel in my future and discovery and exploration.Suzy Chase: Over the weekend. I made your recipe for individual chocolate souffle cakes on page 217. Can you describe this dish?Claudia Fleming: These are actually a Nancy Silverton adaptation from a thousand years ago. When something is this simple, the most important thing is to use the best ingredients you can get. In this instance, of course, you want to use high quality butter and farm fresh eggs, but the chocolate is really where it's at. In those days, Valrhona was where it was at. Not that it isn't anymore, but there are so many other chocolates that that one could explore with.Suzy Chase: Now, for my segment called My Favorite Cookbook, other than this cookbook, what is your all time favorite cookbook and why?Claudia Fleming: Nancy Silverton's dessert book, her first dessert book. It launched me into my passion for dessert and pastry in 1986, maybe it was. I devoured that book. I was living in Aspen that summer and the person I was staying with had a copy of the book, and I read it backwards and forwards, forwards and back. It was very classic, but with lots of twists and her interpretations. I just loved it and I love her still, after Tom is probably my greatest inspiration.Suzy Chase: Where can we find you on the web and social media?Claudia Fleming: I'm @chefclaudiafleming on Instagram and the same for Facebook.Suzy Chase: It has been so lovely chatting with you, Claudia.Suzy Chase: Thanks so much for coming on Cookery by the Book podcast.Claudia Fleming: Thank you for having me, Suzy, great to talk to you.Outro: Subscribe over on CookerybytheBook.com, and thanks for listening to the number one cookbook podcast, Cookery by the Book.

This week on Business Class, we have the James Beard Award-winning celebrity chef and restaurateur, Dan Kluger. Dan's career has brought him everywhere from Danny Meyer's Union Square Cafe to Tom Colicchio's CORE Club, as well as most recently, his long-awaited first restaurant, Loring Place. Not only does Dan have some insane stories about the ever-changing beast that is the New York City restaurant scene, but also a ton of valuable tips about how to climb the ranks of your industry and get yourself a seat at the table. And yes, Dan actually does share some legit industry secrets about how to literally get yourself a seat at the table, a.k.a reservations at some of the world’s hottest restaurants. I enjoyed this one a lot. Check it out!

There is a reason we choose to pay $5 for a cup of coffee. The customers aren't paying for the coffee, they are paying for the experience of being at Starbucks. Danny Meyer the famed restauranteur was doing this before the term "experience economy" was even coined back in the 1990's. He opened his first restaurant in New York City called Union Square Cafe back in 1985 and one thing he has always done better than anyone else in the business is offer an incredible experience.

There is a reason we choose to pay $5 for a cup of coffee. The customers aren't paying for the coffee, they are paying for the experience of being at Starbucks. Danny Meyer the famed restauranteur was doing this before the term "experience economy" was even coined back in the 1990's. He opened his first restaurant in New York City called Union Square Cafe back in 1985 and one thing he has always done better than anyone else in the business is offer an incredible experience.

On this episode of the Growing with Purpose podcast, host Paul Spiegelman talks with Dan Sachs, a professor at DePaul University Kellstadt School of Business, where he teaches classes on Restaurant Entrepreneurship and Service Leadership. Dan is also the founder and owner of the BIN36 restaurant and wine brand. Recently, Dan published his first book, The Million Dollar Greeting: Today’s Best Practices for Profit, Customer Retention, and a Happy Workplace. Dan Sachs started out with a push broom on the factory floor of his dad's manufacturing business. Not long after, he started working at Union Square Cafe, one of the restaurants owned by the famed, purpose-driven restaurateur Danny Meyer. Dan's time at the restaurant made a huge impact on him: the owners genuinely cared about each and every employee, and Dan felt inspired to treat every customer that walked in the same way. When Dan went on to open his own restaurant in Chicago years later, he took the same principles he learned there and used it to build a high-end, informal restaurant experience that people would love. Today, Dan is taking his lessons learned on building a service-oriented, purpose-driven hospitality business and teaching it to students, emerging entrepreneurs and peers in his field. In this episode, learn Dan's principles for building a great culture and why he believes it to be universal across industries. Plus, hear Paul and Dan discuss Paul's own recent venture into the restaurant business and Dan's practical advice for building a sustainable business in the tough restaurant industry.

Andrew drove out to Southold, NY, this summer to visit influential pastry chef Claudia Fleming at her North Fork Table & Inn. They spoke about Claudia's Italian-Irish upbringing, her early days as an aspiring dancer, her transition to restaurant work (starting in the front of the house), and ascension to opening pastry chef at Gramercy Tavern, where she inspired generations of colleagues. Claudia worked in such seminal restaurants as the original Jams, Tribeca Grill, and Union Square Cafe, all of which are discussed in detail, as is the reissue of her cookbook The Last Course, just published last week.Joining Andrew for the intro this week is his colleague and neighbor Jeff Gordinier, food & drinks editor of Esquire magazine, whose 2019 Best New Restaurants list recently debuted. Jeff shares his extensive selection process, as well as some highlights from the list.Episode guide:1:25 - 33:40  Intro with Esquire magazine food & drinks editor Jeff Gordinier33:40 - 1:28:10 Claudia Fleming, part 11:28:40 - 1:39:28 More with Jeff Gordinier (mid-Show break)1:39:28 - 2:10:10 - Claudia Fleming, part 22:10:10 Wrap up with Jeff GordinierLinks:Andrew Talks to Chefs official websiteNorth Fork Table & Inn (Claudia's restaurant & inn)The Last Course (Claudia's book)Esquire's Best New Restaurants 2019Hungry (Jeff Gordinier's latest book)Please tell a friend about Andrew Talks to Chefs and/or rate/review us on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening![photo of Claudia Fleming by Eric Striffler]

Listen up bucko, there is no way you are going to get out of this having learned about the terroir of Franciacorta. You’re going to have to do that on your own, because the boys gleefully spent about 45 minutes derailing guest Chris Struck’s attempted monologue about it. Instead, you’re going to hear three powerful wine divos in the prime of the power and influence get absolutely out of their minds discussing method traditional sparklers without saying the word “Champagne.” There’s a lot of shots and quite a few edits, so probably none of this is legally actionable but also, uh parody laws are a thing, right? Literally though, if it’s not clear as hell from how much fu we had, these wines all are incredible joys, and frankly overdeliver. Put them in your repertoire and smoke them. Thank you to our guest, and go visit him at Union Square Cafe. If you buy a good enough wine he will show you his feet. Please visit disgorgeouspod.com, check out Patreon.com/disgorgeous and come to see us at Niche Niche December 3, 2019. List///Caracolli Cellars, Santa Lucia Highlands, ‘Brut Rosé,’ 2010 //Jo Landron, ‘Atmospheres,’ NV //Cellar Mas Candi, Cava Brut Nature, ‘Indomable,’ 2012, but back label is “L-09.” It’s old, ok? //Underberg, ‘Little big mistakes,’ NV //1701, Franciacorta Rosé DOCG, NV //Chateau Mukhrani, Muscat, ‘Dessert wine’ NV //Breads kitchen, chocolate babka, 2019 (presumed) //Domaine Valentin Zusslin, Cremant d’Alsace, ‘Rosé brut zero,’ NV ///Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/Disgorgeous)

The Last Course is back! The influential dessert cookbook from 2001, by pastry chef Claudia Fleming and writer Melissa Clark, has been reissued. For years, The Last Course was one of the most coveted out-of-print cookbooks around; now it’s here for a new generation to discover. Claudia, who today runs North Fork Table & Inn in Southold, N.Y., stopped by Radio Cherry Bombe to talk about her beloved book, her unexpected career trajectory from dancer to world-class pastry chef, what desserts she’s best known for, and more. Be sure to tune in!Plus, stay tuned to find out who food and brand marketer Julia Marino from Seattle, Washington, thinks is the bombe.Thank you to Le Cordon Bleu culinary schools and Emmi cheese from Switzerland for supporting our show. 

Danny Meyer walks us through one of the only dishes that has been on the menu at Union Square Cafe since day 1 – Fried Calamari. He shares the background story and inspiration on this longstanding USC dish. If you missed Danny’s full episode, check out Season 4/Episode 010 from last week.

Let's start with saying Jeff makes one of the best burgers on the planet. Period. Now that we've got that established, he's also a really cool guy who loves to talk hospitality and share his story and lessons he's learned over his year in the business. He worked at several New York restaurants and institutions before landing as Owner/Executive Chef of Royale in Raleigh. Chef Seizer was a sous chef at Union Square Cafe, on the opening team at Maialino, and a chef de cuisine at Gramercy Park Hotel. He then served as executive chef at the Langham Place, and two years as executive chef at Biricchino. And, once again, his burgers are AWESOME! Enjoy...

September 27, 2019 - The power of client experience as a differentiator in today’s competitive marketplace. Danny Meyer opened his first restaurant, Union Square Cafe, in 1985, and has since grown Union Square Hospitality Group into one of the most renowned and influential organizations in the world. Danny will draw on his experience as a pioneering leader in the hospitality industry, sharing insights from his entrepreneurial beginnings and over three decades in the business. He’ll address the critical difference between service and hospitality, the power of client experience as a differentiator in an increasingly competitive marketplace, and how USHG’s innovative spirit has taken the group to new frontiers, transcending the restaurant industry and contributing to the evolution of New York City neighborhoods. Danny was also honored to be names the 2017 Julia Child Award Recipient.

Over iced coffee and crullers at Union Square Cafe in New York, Anne McElvoy asks restaurateur Danny Meyer about his recipe for restaurant success—from Michelin-starred 11 Madison Park to the fast-food chain Shake Shack. They talk about how #MeToo has changed the politics of the kitchen and why he would rather diners left smaller tips. And, when any dish can be delivered at the tap of an app, is there still magic in eating out? See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Over iced coffee and crullers at Union Square Cafe in New York, Anne McElvoy asks restaurateur Danny Meyer about his recipe for restaurant success—from Michelin-starred 11 Madison Park to the fast-food chain Shake Shack. They talk about how #MeToo has changed the politics of the kitchen and why he would rather diners left smaller tips. And, when any dish can be delivered at the tap of an app, is there still magic in eating out? See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

As the founder of Shake Shack and Union Square Hospitality Group, Danny Meyer has built restaurants in ways that bucked industry norms. This episode, hear Dan Roth pay a visit to Union Square Cafe as the two discuss Meyer's career and some of the thinking behind his most controversial decisions. 

Allyson Joseph is the co-owner of the family-owned Los Angeles based wedding-industry giant, Bob Gail Events. Warm, funny, incredibly smart and gracious, she’s a remarkably accomplished young woman. Who sends hand-written thank you notes to vendors post-events? The same person who wrote her Masters thesis about the theoretical perspectives of the wedding and event industry, crowdsurfed at her own wedding and launched her career with an internship at Danny Meyer’s Union Square Cafe  before heading back to run the company business in L.A. Only the extraordinary Allyson Joseph. From tales of Clinton’s Inaugural Ball to installing a scaffold dance floor over a pool to spontaneous/”surprise” event planning, our conversation is bright, fast-paced, engaging and lively, filled with informative and entertaining stories of weddings she has produced from Southern California to Tuscany and points all over the globe…Her thoughtful, meaningful words ask and speak volumes when Allyson muses about the “motivation behind the spend,” or explains that, of course, “lighting is everything.” Allyson has a great deal of terrific advice for brides and grooms which you’ll hear in the episode ahead, but one of the best I’ve yet to hear is to “decide to enjoy yourself” at your own wedding. And, in that spirit, I invite you to simply enjoy the extraordinarily inventive, creative and inspiring Allyson Joseph on this episode 44 of the podcast. Best, -Doug

7th generation Vermonter, Jed Davis, Graduated from Cornell University with a focus on Hotel Administration. His formative years were spent in New York City learning from master restaurateurs, Daniel Boulud, and Danny Meyer before returning to Vermont to raise a family with his wife and former Union Square Cafe, Maitre D, Noelle Davis. In 2010 with the help of 3 partners and approximately 20 investors, Davis founded Farmhouse Tap and Grill. The restaurant didn't take long to evolve into the Farmhouse Group, which today consist of 5 unique concepts and 7 locations with the addition of El Cortijo Taqueria and Cantina, Guild Tavern,  Pascolo Ristorante, and Bliss Bee. The restaurant group also runs two catering operations. Show notes… Favorite success quote or mantra: "If the only thing separating you from success is effort then you have no excuse." In this episode with Jed Davis we will discuss: Early mentors The lack of appreciation given to staff Getting to know the people who work for you/with you The importance of working harder than everyone around you How to deal with unruly customers Being successful in a small market Becoming a person of value Boot-strapping a new brand/restaurant Business plans The importance of having advocates in your community Adapting to an evolving market Sourcing product locally Catering Delivery Today's sponsor: BentoBox helps restaurants grow their business through a connected suite of tools, offering them an integrated website to connect with their guests and drive revenue online. Restaurant owners and operators are able to easily update menus, promote specials, take catering and event inquiries, sell merchandise, gift cards and more. Revel Systems integrates front of house and back of house operations into a single dashboard. Designed to increase security, stability, ease of use, and speed of service, Revel's streamlined ecosystem provides businesses with the right tools to grow. Learn more at revelsystems.com/unstoppable.   Knowledge bombs Which "it factor" habit, trait, or characteristic you believe most contributes to your success? Charisma What is your biggest weakness? Remembering people's names What's one question you ask or thing you look for during an interview? What are you looking for? Why do you want to work with us? What's a current challenge? How are you dealing with it? Staffing Share one code of conduct or behavior you teach your team. Don't ever let anyone outwork you What is one uncommon standard of service you teach your staff? Find one way to do something else for every guest that their not expecting What's the one thing you feel restaurateurs don't know well enough or do often enough? Thank their employees personally What's one piece of technology you've adopted within your four walls restaurant and how has it influence operations? Toast If you got the news that you'd be leaving this world tomorrow and all memories of you, your work, and your restaurants would be lost with your departure with the exception of 3 pieces of wisdom you could leave behind for the good of humanity, what would they be? Owning a restaurant is an opportunity for many more than three reasons..... Contact info: The Farmhouse Group website Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for joining today! Have some feedback you'd like to share? Leave a note in the comment section below! If you enjoyed this episode, please share it using the social media buttons you see at the top of the post. Also, please leave an honest review for the Restaurant Unstoppable Podcast on iTunes! Ratings and reviews are extremely helpful and greatly appreciated! They do matter in the rankings of the show, and I read each and every one of them. And finally, don't forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes to get automatic updates. Huge thanks to Jed Davis for joining me for another awesome episode. Until next time!   Restaurant Unstoppable is a free podcast. One of the ways I'm able to make it free is by earning a commission when sharing certain products with you. I've made it a core value to only share tools, resources, and services my guest mentors have recommend, first. If you're finding value in my podcast, please use my links!

Our Moderator Emily gives hard-hitting stories of food in the news to our panelists and they discuss their attitudes and opinions in our Weekly Baste Segment. This week we discuss pre-batched artisanal cocktails, spirit foods, farmers markets and of course, Meghan Markle! Our guests for The Weekly Grill are Amanda Wilson and Elizabeth McConnell of Union Square Hospitality Group. After many years as Chef de Cuisine at Union Square Cafe, Amanda recently took on the new role of Executive Chef at Daily Provisions, a neighborhood coffee shop, bakery and sandwich shop concept in NYC. Liz also spent many years in Union Square Cafe's kitchen and currently oversees all foraging and purchasing for the restaurant. The Main Course is powered by Simplecast.

Should you leave a cash tip or is card just as good, do you prefer a service charge or would you get rid of tipping altogether? Sheila Dillon finds out when she meets the co-founder of Hawksmoor Restaurants William Beckett to talk about our attitude to tipping in the UK and how it varies from city to city. Peter Davies of WMT Accountants describes how high-profile scandals have dented our trust in tipping and Alex Wrethman of the Charlotte Group of restaurants explains how that could be hurting businesses now. Sheila then draws on examples from the US where Saru Jayaraman is President of the Restaurant Opportunities Centre. Jayaraman explains how the system in many states has forced workers to rely on tips to earn the minimum wage and been a cause of poverty and sexual harassment. We hear from the poet Jan Beatty about waiting tables in the US for 15 years and then look at one of the most forward-thinking tipping models in the world, dreamed up by restaurateur Danny Meyer who founded New York’s Union Square Cafe and Gramercy, and ask whether it could be rolled out in the UK. Presenter: Sheila Dillon Producer: Tom Bonnett

On today's episode of All in the Industry®, host Shari Bayer's guest is Claudia Fleming, the Proprietor & Pastry Chef at The North Fork Table & Inn in Southold, Long Island, NY. When Claudia was named Outstanding Pastry Chef by the James Beard Foundation in 2000, it was a well-earned recognition of the new chic, sophisticated, unfussy and casually graceful style she introduced - and continues - in her classically inspired, seasonal desserts and pastries.Claudia’s craft and approach to ingredients reflects the time she spent working in restaurants in New York (Jams, Union Square Cafe, Montrachet, TriBeCa Grill, and Gramercy Tavern) and in Paris (Fauchon). In 2005, Claudia along with her late husband, chef Gerry Hayden, left Manhattan to open The North Fork Table & Inn, in Long Island’s farm-filled wine country, living and working close to food producers. They set out to serve extraordinary food in a simply adorned, formal room, to create a dining experience like that found in the European countryside; and they succeeded. Claudia's exquisite book, The Last Course: Desserts from Gramercy Tavern, (Random House 2001), is prized by cooks and collectors alike. Her recipes have also been featured in numerous national publications, and she has served as a judge on TV's Chopped and Top Chef: Just Desserts Today's show also features Shari's PR tip, Speed Round, Industry News discussion, and Solo Dining experience at Chef Cedric Vongerichten's Wayan in NYC. Listen at Heritage Radio Network; subscribe/rate/review our show at iTunes, Stitcher or Spotify. Follow us @allindustry. Thanks for being a part of All in the Industry®! Photo courtesy of Claudia Fleming. All in the Industry is powered by Simplecast.

Mark Maynard - a 26 year veteran of the Union Square Hospitality Group, Mark started the trail as host of Union Square Cafe. From there he rose to General Manager and then launched a string of the popular bbq joint Blue Smoke. Extensive visits to America’s south east inspired Porchlight bar.  Now he’s the Director of Operations for all of USHG. Mark has also written a book The Next Frontier of Restaurant Management and is s regular lecturer at Cornell, NYU and, The Institute of Culinary Education.  The Speakeasy is powered by Simplecast.

I am thrilled & honored to finally visit with famed restauranteur & author, Danny Meyer! What a great guy, plus- he is the CEO of Union Square Hospitality Group and the founder of Shake Shack! (If I see you at the gym twice this weekend, you’ll know why). Today we talk about building a business that puts quality customer satisfaction first, coffee milkshakes, the necessity of cheese, and how folks with ADD&OCD often become great entrepreneurs! A little more about Danny:  The Union Square Hospitality Group comprises some of New York’s most beloved restaurants, including Union Square Cafe, Gramercy Tavern, The Modern, and more. Danny, his restaurants and chefs have earned an unprecedented 28 James Beard Awards, and Danny’s recent personal achievements include the Julia Child Award (2017) and his inclusion on the TIME 100 list of the Most Influential People in the World (2015). His first business book, Setting the Table (HarperCollins, 2006), a New York Times bestseller, examines the power of hospitality in restaurants, business and life.. Enjoy!   In this episode Peter and Danny discuss: 1:18-  Intro and welcome Danny Meyer!  ref:  “Setting the Table”, Union Square Hospitality Group, City Harvest, Share Our Strength, Union Square Partnership, Madison Square Park Conservancy  2:38-  Explain to us the travel that took you from a Political Science Major at Trinity College, then working in Chicago for John Anderson’s Presidential Campaign- over to the Restaurant & Travel business. 5:15-  On the invent of Union Square Cafe circa 1985 6:10-  When you opened, you were a twenty-sever-year-old entrepreneur, focused on customer satisfaction, who was gambling on an entirely new genre of restaurant! Tell us a little about that experience please? 8:56-  How did you take the one great success and turn it into several? What would you say to entrepreneurs who are wanting to expand?  ref:  Union Square Hospitality Group 14:40-  On ADD/OCD.  Do you have moments of waking up and feeling like “This can’t be all real”?!  ref:  Imposter syndrome  16:58-  Can you give us the one piece of advice that you’ve given all four of your children? 19:17-  Awesome. How can people get in touch with you on the web? Twitter & INSTA:  @dhmeyer  19:36-  On Social Media and how Danny uses it. 20:59-  Peter Shankman’s go-to order at Shake Shack 21:30-  Danny Meyer’s go-to order at Shake Shack 22:15-  Thank you so much Danny! 22:29-  Thanks again to Danny Meyer, and thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening! You can always reach me at peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. Also at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials.  22:51-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits Check out my new ADHD Coaching at www.shankminds.com/ADHDCoaching As always, leave us a comment below and PLEASE drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! The more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear!

Born and raised in St. Louis, Missouri, Danny Meyer grew up in a family that loved great food and hospitality. Thanks to his father’s travel business, which designed custom European trips, Danny spent much of his childhood eating, visiting near and far-off places, and sowing the seeds for his future passion. In 1985, at the age of 27, Danny opened his first restaurant, Union Square Cafe, launching what would become a lifelong career in hospitality. 30 years later, Danny’s Union Square Hospitality Group (USHG) comprises some of New York’s favorite and acclaimed restaurants, including Gramercy Tavern, The Modern, Maialino, Shake Shack and more. USHG also offers large-scale event services, foodservice solutions for public and private institutions, industry consulting, and educational programming. 

Priyanka Aribindi interviews Danny Meyer, the CEO of Union Square Hospitality Group (Shake Shack, Union Square Cafe, Gramercy Tavern, Maialino, and more), and the author of “Setting the Table: The Transforming Power of Hospitality in Business,” to discuss hospitality and service—what his restaurants have become known worldwide for—and what politicians and campaigns can learn from his principles to win over voters.

To revolutionize an industry, you have to cast off received wisdom. Shake Shack’s Danny Meyer knows this well. When he opened his first high-end restaurant, New York’s Union Square Cafe, received wisdom told him food was the star attraction. But Danny knew to focus on how customers FEEL. And it’s this feeling – Danny calls it “enlightened hospitality” — that he’s scaled. From his first innovative restaurants, Union Square Café and Gramercy Tavern, to the dramatic scale story of Shake Shack, Danny cast off received wisdom and wrote his own rules: The staff comes first; investors comes last; the customer isn’t always right; and “service” is not the same as “hospitality.” His simple ideas have radical implications for any industry. With a cameo appearance from Rick Barry (Former NBA player.)

Our City. Our Story. returns for a second season with Shake Shack founder Danny Meyer, the man behind famed New York establishments such as the Union Square Cafe and Gramercy Tavern. Meyer reflects on living in New York in the 1980s and keeping his restaurant Eleven Madison Park open on 9/11 to serve the community. Music for this episode provided by: John Lennon - https://amzn.to/2moJJGl Chris Zabriskie - https://bit.ly/1empkbE Hugo Droopy Contini - https://bit.ly/2OHuzbt C. Scott - https://bit.ly/2fsAqCY The Beatles - https://amzn.to/2MhJTPo

The Ringer's Joe House is joined by Pat LaFrieda, CEO of Pat LaFrieda Meat Purveyors, a $200 million company that supplies some of New York's best restaurants, including: Minetta Tavern, Spotted Pig, Union Square Cafe, and more than 135 Shake Shack locations. House and Pat discuss LaFrieda's rise from a Wall Street dropout to king of the New York meat industry, elevating the hamburger, and creating the legendary meat blend for Shake Shack (4:45). Then they talk about outside grilling, specialty steaks, and Pat's new joint, The Pennsy Food Hall, located right outside of Madison Square Garden (27:40). Finally House links up with Juliet Litman for a classic 'House of Carbs' Food News (55:00).

Danny Meyer is a legend in the food business. While he's best known for founding Shake Shack, the global burger empire, he actually got his start in fine dining. He was just 27 years old when he opened his first restaurant, the Union Square Cafe. Katie joins Danny there to talk (over tagliatelle) about the decision to eliminate tipping at many of his restaurants, the difference between service and hospitality, and why he was initially embarrassed to tell his family he wanted to go into the restaurant business. Plus, he shares his recommended order at Shake Shack. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://news.iheart.com/podcast-advertisers

Danny Meyer is the king of New York City hospitality. The restaurateur leads the prolific Union Square Hospitality Group, responsible for New York City dining stalwarts Union Square Cafe, Gramercy Tavern, and the Modern, among others, and the global burger chain Shake Shack. On this week’s Upsell, he sits down with Eater's editor-in-chief Amanda Kludt and Greg to discuss leading the no tipping movement, how he comes up with each new restaurant concept, and explains why he makes his staff read his book. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Danny Meyer was a disruptor before it was cool, and remains one today. From the opening of Union Square Cafe in 1985 through Shake Shack’s IPO in 2014 and beyond, Meyer’s restaurants have shaken up the industry’s norms. New York’s fine dining establishment didn’t really focus on customer service and restaurants generally didn’t offer their staff benefits before Meyer arrived on the scene. Meyer’s Union Square Hospitality Group continued to push boundaries of American dining by eliminating tipping from the Michelin-starred The Modern in late 2015, with plans to extend it to all 13 of its restaurants over time. And starting in 2017, the firm will offer paid parental leave to its full-time restaurant workers, extending a benefits package rarely seen in the industry that has long-included health insurance, life insurance and a matching 401(k) plan. Meyer’s personal background makes him an unlikely revolutionary but it’s clear he’s become one of the most important American restaurateurs of the past 30 years because of a relentless focus on the dining experience for everyone in the restaurant, from customers to employees to suppliers and everyone in between.

What does it take to relocate, and reimagine, a classic? Chef Carmen Quagliata of Union Square Cafe is about to relaunch the venerable Manhattan restaurant, after three decades in its original location. Carmen shares what it was like taking over the kitchen at this New York City institution when he first came on board about a decade ago, and the nuts and bolts of shutting down, then reconstituting, Union Square Cafe in its about-to-debut new home.

Episode 5 of The Co-Write includes a discussion about an alarming article signaling the end of iTunes music, what is causing the juggernaut's downfall, and what it might mean to the future of independent music.  (8:15)  Also, Donovan gives his review of a new book that has kept his attention, and also changed the way he consumes literature. (33:00) Also Mentioned:  Josh Abbott Band Randy Rogers Band  Eli Young Band  Montgomery Gentry  San Diego Zoo Harambe the Gorilla  Lonestar Music Magazine  Turnpike Troubadours  Digital Music News  iTunes Steve Jobs Spotify  Bob Lefsetz  Garth Brooks  Taylor Swift  Union Square Cafe  Stephanie Danler Sweet Bitter 

Danny Meyer is the CEO of the Union Square Hospitality Group, responsible for restaurants like Union Square Cafe, Gramercy Tavern, Maialino, The Modern, Blue Smoke and others located in New York City and around the world.  

Shari Bayer celebrates her 100th episode of All in the Industry with hospitality and restaurant legend, Danny Meyer. Danny Meyer is the CEO of Union Square Hospitality Group, which includes Union Square Cafe, Gramercy Tavern, Blue Smoke, Jazz Standard, The Modern, Maialino, Untitled, North End Grill, Marta, Union Square Events, and Hospitality Quotient. He recounts his childhood and the events that led him to his career in the industry, the new Union Square Cafe location, the tipping conversation and more!

Shep Hyken interviews Danny Meyer, CEO of the Union Square Hospitality Group. The award-winning restaurateur opened his first establishment, Union Square Cafe, in 1985 at the age of 27. Due to its emphasis on service and hospitality, Union Square Cafe soon became one of the premiere dining locations in all of New York City, and remains highly regarded today. Listen as Danny describes how to use those same principles - hospitality and service - to make any business a success. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The GMGs keep the guest train rolling, bringing in restaurant manager Chris Nelson to find out what his jam is (besides working with Danielle). Topics include the Union Square Cafe, the best news sources, whether social media is good and if all grandmas should be on it, and loving likes...

Chef Michael Romano is in studio for Japan Eats this week with host Akiko Katayama.  Talking his impressive background beginning at the iconic Serendipity in New York in 1971, it was upon impressing a young Danny Meyer that propelled Michael to eventually joining staff at the Union Square Cafe while it earned numerous accolades from The New York Times and Zagat.  Today Michael can be found, wearing the hats of both Chef and explorer, at Union Square Tokyo, the Japanese outpost of the New York restaurant. He shares details behind marrying the American restaurant to the Japanese culture plus more on this in-depth chat! “Tokyo is not New York, you have to respect the way people eat.” [15:00] –Chef Michael Romano  

The tables turn this week on In the Drink as Joe Campanale sites in the guest seat and shares his story for the first time on the show! Find out how he discovered the industry after initially studying politics at NYU. Follow his careers steps from early days interning at Italian Wine Merchants and Union Square Cafe to working as a sommelier at Babbo and eventually opening dell’anima in 2007. Now, Joe is the Executive Beverage Director of Epicurean Group, which manages dell’anima, L’artusi, L’apicio & Anfora. Tune in and get an inside look at the career of one of wine and hospitality’s brightest stars. Also get a sneak peak into Downtown Italian: Recipes Inspired by Italy, Created in New York’s West Village, the forthcoming cookbook and wine pairing book from the Epicurean team. This program was brought to you by Michter’s. “When I came back from Italy that’s when I had this mandate that I had to surround myself with food and wine and spend the rest of my working life that way.” [04:00] –Joe Campanale on In the Drink

Andrew & Molly are joined by Stephanie Soechtig, the director of the documentary Fed Up. They discuss the misinformation surrounding food and health, the importance of making a change, and what we can do to stop the epidemic. Plus, their last-minute thoughts before Molly's wedding and the closing of Union Square Cafe.

The Taste of the Nation event is coming up in New York City on April 28th! Joe brings in whole panel to discuss the event for this week’s episode. Jenny Z. Dirksen is Share Our Strength’s National Director of Culinary Events. In her role, Jenny is responsible for a team of 18 that organizes culinary fundraising events coast to coast, including oversight for chef relationships, all with the goal of ending childhood hunger in the US. John DeLucie is the chef and owner of three New York City landmark restaurants: The Lion in the West Village; Crown, situated steps from The Metropolitan Museum of Art in the Upper East Side; and Bill’s, the midtown landmark three-story townhouse that held the famed prohibition-era bar, Bill’s Gay Nineties. His restaurant group, Crown Group Hospitality, also did a pop up of the Lion in The Brompton Club in London, April 2012, and is currently working on launching several projects in tandem with select hotels across the country. In addition, DeLucie consults for the prestigious King Cole Bar & Salon in the St. Regis NY which he recently reopened in November 2013. Celebrated for her 3-star desserts, Heather Carlucci’s pastry reads like a history of NY’s most esteemed eateries. A pastry position at Tom Colicchio’s Mondrian and a pastry chef gig at Union Square Cafe set the tone for an illustrious career. Over the next 15 years she created desserts at L’Impero, Veritas and Judson Grill — each receiving 3 stars from The New York Times. For her first personal venture, Heather opened Lassi, a tiny take-out restaurant featuring Northern Indian home cooking. After leading a successful re-branding and expansion of the family business, Mr. Cardona moved to New York City to pursue a career in wine, first landing at Italian Wine Merchants (“IWM”) where he spent four years working closely with IWM founding partner Sergio Esposito. With the formation of Epicurean Capital and Epicurean Management Company (“EMCo.”), Mr. Cardona was able to solidify both a flexible pool of dedicated capital for new business initiatives and the foundation of an experienced management team to successfully operate and brand existing and future businesses. This program has been sponsored by Whole Foods Market. Today’s music provided by Cookies. “I know that whenever I step into a SOS event, everyone is going to be well taken care of.” [8:30] –Jenny Dirkson on In The Drink “Most kids don’t even know where fruit comes from anymore.” [21:10] –Heather Carlucci on In The Drink

With summer quickly approaching, get into the spirit of the barbecue season! Hear the story of pit-master Kenny Callaghan of Blue Smoke, one of the premier BBQ restaurants in New York City on this week’s Chef’s Story. Kenny’s story is an unconventional one: after starting work at the age of 14 cooking fast Italian food, Kenny found himself in Florida where he learned the true nature of Barbecue and gained a true passion for it. Then moving to New York, he worked a series of jobs in fine dining, moving up the line in the kitchen and in the world of chef’s, earning credibility and experience that would eventually land him a job at the Union Square Cafe. After eight years of running a kitchen, Callaghan became a known name, and he joined up with a team of BBQ enthusiast’s to see if they could bring the spirit of this southern cuisine to New York City. Blue Smoke was the result. Their goal is to pay homage to all the different regional styles of southern BBQ, and bring the knowledge of fine dining into the BBQ world. Don’t miss this fascinating story of hard work, honest training, and mouthwatering anecdotes! Thanks to our sponsor, BonniePlants. “When I started being a chef, it wasn’t the most popular thing to do.” [24:30] “I always tried very hard everyday, i always took my job very seriously, if I ever made a mistake I took it personally, and I marked it to the hard drive, and I never made that mistake again.” [25:10] “I see a restuarant very much like a house or a boat, once you stop working on it it falls apart.” [38:45] — Chef Kenny Callaghan on Chef’s Story!

Did you ever wonder what and when the chefs and staffs at restaurants eat their meals? Award winning Chef Michael Romano provides a behind-the-scenes peak along with recipes from his new book Family Table: Favorite Staff Meals from Our Restaurants to Your Home. Included are delicious tales and tastes from the iconic Union Square Cafe and the other popular … Read more about this episode...

Did you ever wonder what and when the chefs and staffs at restaurants eat their meals? Award winning Chef Michael Romano provides a behind-the-scenes peak along with recipes from his new book Family Table: Favorite Staff Meals from Our Restaurants to Your Home. Included are delicious tales and tastes from the iconic Union Square Cafe and the other popular … Read more about this episode...

The “Restaurateur” (denoted by his very own biopic), Danny Meyer is one of New York's greatest culinary leaders. As CEO of Union Square Hospitality, a restaurant group that's redefined dining in the city, along side President and Director of Culinary Development, Michael Romano. Their first collaboration, Union Square Cafe opened in 1984, Michael joining in ‘88 and six months later garnering a 3 star NYTimes review, has endured almost 30 years in one of the hardest industries around. On today's installment of THE FOOD SEEN, find out why their brand of haute cuisine-meets-hospitality is still ahead of the curve. Now with over a dozen Shake Shack locations in the USA, and half a dozen overseas (Dubai, Kuwait City, Doha, Abu Dhabi), and Creative Juice, a new healthy concept cafe, Creative Juice, inside Equinox gyms, how does USHG keep the same food and service ideals relevant? This episode of has been sponsored by 360 Cookware. “It's not a badge that you wear on your shirt – ‘I use seasonal produce' – that's just how it's done!” [17:00] “No matter how good it tastes, nothing will ever satisfy your soul in the absence of hospitality.” [21:40] One innovation that Union Square Café brought about, that we absolutely continued at Gramercy Tavern, was to bring women into the equation of a three-star dining experience.” [25:20] “Whoever wrote the rule that hedonism and health can't be a part of the same sentence?” [55:40] — Danny Meyer on THE FOOD SEEN “It's about the guest's experience. They're coming to our restaurant, we're cooking them a meal. I want to make sure that everyone has a good time.” [25:45] “Where is this food coming from? Is it cerebral? Is it textbook? Or is the person cooking really connecting with the food?” [38:00] — Michael Romano on THE FOOD SEEN

Path 101 Co-Founder & CEO Charlie O'Donnell will be interviewing Danny Meyer, New York City restaurateur. He was born and raised in St Louis, and spent portions of his childhood traveling throughout Europe with his father's tour company, studying food and hospitality extensively in France and Italy (including such cities as Bordeaux, Rome, and Paris). In 1985, at the age of 27, he began his career as a restaurateur with the opening of Union Square Cafe.His restaurants include: Union Square Cafe (with Michael Romano), Gramercy Tavern, Tabla(With Floyd Cardoz), Blue Smoke( With Kenny Callagahan), Eleven Madison Park, and the social hub of the NYC Tech Community, Shake Shack.Six of his restaurants are in the Union Square area of Manhattan; the greenmarket there played a role in the situation of his restaurants.Meyer has made numerous appearances at the annual Food & Wine Magazine Classic in Aspen, Colorado.The Epi-log, the Food Blog side of Epicurious Magazine On Line, reports that Danny will be in charge of the food at CitiField, the new Mets Stadium when it opens in 2009.

Path 101 Co-Founder & CEO Charlie O'Donnell will be interviewing Danny Meyer, New York City restaurateur. He was born and raised in St Louis, and spent portions of his childhood traveling throughout Europe with his father's tour company, studying food and hospitality extensively in France and Italy (including such cities as Bordeaux, Rome, and Paris). In 1985, at the age of 27, he began his career as a restaurateur with the opening of Union Square Cafe.His restaurants include: Union Square Cafe (with Michael Romano), Gramercy Tavern, Tabla(With Floyd Cardoz), Blue Smoke( With Kenny Callagahan), Eleven Madison Park, and the social hub of the NYC Tech Community, Shake Shack.Six of his restaurants are in the Union Square area of Manhattan; the greenmarket there played a role in the situation of his restaurants.Meyer has made numerous appearances at the annual Food & Wine Magazine Classic in Aspen, Colorado.The Epi-log, the Food Blog side of Epicurious Magazine On Line, reports that Danny will be in charge of the food at CitiField, the new Mets Stadium when it opens in 2009.

Discuss this episode in the Muse community Follow @MuseAppHQ on Twitter Show notes 00:00:00 - Speaker 1: There’s so many zillions of startups trying to try every single angle and opportunity in that area. And so the marginal return to investing your personal time in terms of the impact on the world might be relatively smaller there. Whereas there’s this whole space that I feel like is really under explored. And if you just make it about 80%, making a profit and 20% making a statement, that opens up all kinds of incredible opportunities. 00:00:29 - Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Meta Muse. Muse is a tool for thought on iPad. This podcast isn’t about Muse the product, it’s about Muse the company and the small team behind it. I’m Adam Wiggins, joined by Mark McGramigan. Hey, Adam. And Mark, since we last spoke, I am a father. Congrats. Yeah, it’s great, or at least the non-sleep deprived parts are great. I’m actually on parental leave right now, but I enjoy doing this podcast enough. I thought I could sneak back for just an hour here, but if my brain is not at full capacity, let’s just say you’ll have to carry things for us. OK. Now, way back in episode 4, we talked about our partnership model. And the context there was we were hiring the 5th member of our team, our engineering partner, and I’m happy to say we have through that process, we added Adam Wulf to the team, really great engineer with a particular specialty in inking, which is quite important for us, and he’s been doing great on the team, so we’re now 5. And in the course of that, of course, we talked about kind of the nature of the company and how it’s different from other models, particularly the startup model, but I thought it would be good to both first take an episode to talk more explicitly about what this somewhat unusual business structure we chose was, and then also it’s been a year and a half actually coming up on 2 years now since we started this thing and so being able to essentially say how’s it going? Is this working out the way that we expected. And just to frame things up a little bit, a starting place and a point of inspiration for both of us is a book called Small Giants, and I read this many, many years ago, I think when I was in my startup lifestyle, I would say, but it it had a big impact on me, and the book basically profiles a bunch of, let’s call them, businesses that are maybe have an outsized impact. But they’re less about huge size or making it to the S&P 500 or something like that. So for example, they have Clif Bars in there or Whole Foods, which I think at the time the book was wrote was really kind of an up and comer, independent up and comer, or Union Square Cafe, which is quite kind of unique restaurant in the New York area, since expanded to other locations. And the process of profiling these businesses, they showed kind of a maybe an alternate to, I think they’re thinking more an alternate to the standard kind of public company path, but I at least for me, I read it as an alternate to the startup world, which at the time I was just completely immersed in. I was kind of the only way to do things with the startup way, and this book suggested another path. 00:03:03 - Speaker 1: Yeah, that book was quite influential on me as well. So Adam, I’m curious, what from the book did you find yourself taking away the most and applying to your future adventures? 00:03:13 - Speaker 2: Yeah, well, in prep for this episode, I went and pulled out my Kindle highlights as a PDF and scanned through those a bit, and I have to say I’m not sure it’s actually a great book in terms of how it’s written, but there’s just a couple of core ideas that really hit home. One of those is they talk about businesses with soul or another term they use quite a bit is mojo, which is kind of a funny one. They talk about optimizing for mojo overgrowth and growth, of course, a business exists to Earn money, that’s it’s kind of practical function in the economy, and growth typically goes with that, it’s almost a requirement. So if you’re not growing, you’re stagnating. And that is taken to a real extreme in the startup world. I mean, Paul Graham even has an essay, Startup equals Growth, which just says, that is your sole purpose for being, grow, grow, grow fast as you can, and the counterpoint this book presents is mojo and expressing something kind of artistically and Having the soul is something you can choose. Of course, you still need to pay attention to the business fundamentals. You do still need to grow, but you can choose to have maybe a different balance where you say, you know what, this mojo thing we want to optimize for that and have enough growth to be successful but not have it be growth at the cost of absolutely every other thing. 00:04:35 - Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. For me, there are a few layers here. There’s that first layer of, OK, you don’t necessarily need to be a huge business or to grow really fast. It’s a sort of mechanical matter, there are existence proofs of businesses that haven’t gotten huge or growing that fast, they’re doing just fine. OK, that’s great. That’s kind of the first layer. Then there’s this mojo idea of you can use the business as a vehicle to accomplish something non-monetary to make a statement. To do an artistic expression, and that’s something that was really important to me in starting this venture. I’m gonna spend the next 25, 10 years of my moral life working on this. I want it to be about something more than making money. And then there’s kind of a third layer, and I don’t know how much they get into this in the book and if you would even agree, but I think there’s a sort of arbitrage here where there are so few businesses that are operating with mojo, as it were, that you can have a sort of outsized impact if you choose to do so and do it well. This is where I think the small giants can punch above their weight class. It’s because so few people are actually operating with this mojo, this sense of artistic expression, that when you do, you really stand out, even if you’re smaller. 00:05:38 - Speaker 2: There’s some examples of companies that come to mind for you that are high mojo. 00:05:43 - Speaker 1: The one that’s top of mind for me these days is Signal. I’m not sure if that’s the company name or the app name, but, you know, I’m referring to the company that makes the Signal app, and I would expect they’re quite small. I’m not actually sure about the size of the firm, but it can’t be that big, but the impact that they’re having on the global discussion around the right of citizens to communicate privately is huge, and they could choose to have a huge impact going forward. So that’s one that’s kind of mindfully these days. 00:06:08 - Speaker 2: One that comes to mind for me is Panic. So they make kind of a variety of weird things, including, I don’t know, FTP clients, but also games. And now I think they’re working on a handheld game console and probably an example of a company that does have both mojo and a lot of growth, but maybe they took their time with that. The growth happened over a relatively speaking a pretty long time period and can build up slowly over time. Another one I remember you speaking about, we talked about this before, is Vanguard. Tell me more about the unusual structure there because I wasn’t familiar with it. 00:06:44 - Speaker 1: Yeah, so Vanguard is like one of the greatest business hacks of all time, and I feel like it’s an understudied story. So my understanding of Vanguard is the founder, I believe his last name is Boggle, wanted to make investing more accessible and more successful for individual retail investors, and he had this insight around indexing, whereby if you index into the market and operate those index funds at a very low cost way, it would be very beneficial to the people who are investing. Now he could have taken this insight and developed a huge and hugely profitable firm with it, but my understanding of what he did instead was he did this move where the firm is effectively owned by the people who invest in the funds. So essentially all the profits that would get plowed back into the funds in the form of lower fees. So he basically forgoes a huge personal fortune to help bring low cost. Indexing investing to the masses. And then it got to the point where it was so successful that it becomes quite hard to compete as a for-profit indexing firm because you can’t plow all your profits back into lower fees, right? Or at least your investors wouldn’t approve necessarily. And that’s kind of the sense of almost art that he’s shared with the world in the form of this somewhat unassailable venture to bring low cost investing to the masses. 00:08:01 - Speaker 2: index funds, you know, S&P 500, ETFs, guess what they’re called nowadays, is this huge technology, or maybe you call it a social technology or just a financial tool or something, but it had this huge democratizing effect for individual investors compared to the managed mutual funds that came before and yeah, the art. Start, as you say, you know, for me that is the reason I am in business is it is a vehicle for expressing something that matters to me about how I think the world should be or how it could be better and the business and the mechanics of all that, how it’s incorporated, how it’s funded, how it earns money, all that stuff is really a means to an end. Right, so optimizing for mojo, businesses with soul, expressing something artistically, that all sounds nice. What does this mean practically in terms of the business that you’re building? And here you start to think about these mechanics, which is, OK, you’ve got a group of people and you’ve got a thing they want to express. Product they want to bring into the world or a piece of art they want to create depending on how you want to think about it. That needs time, it needs money, it needs organization, and that leads you into what I usually think of as kind of a container or a vehicle, which is typically a legal entity, could be a corporation or a nonprofit. Um, and then there are certain models that fit with different kinds of businesses. So, for example, if you’re gonna open a restaurant, and for a lot of people creating a certain kind of food and a certain kind of environment, that is very much an artistic activity for them. You certainly see that if you watch something like the Netflix series Chef’s Table on kind of the high end, but I think even more for your local corner restaurant, many times those businesses are not very lucrative. They’re open because people are really passionate about food and sharing a certain kind of experience with their customers. But there’s probably a certain kind of legal entity you’re form and you’ll probably get funding as a small bank loan or some other things like that. And that’s extremely different from, let me start a startup, move to Silicon Valley, join Y Combinator, get venture funding, and ultimately you still have the legal entity, a source of funding, you know, way to hire people or bring team members on board and the sort of mission they’re signing up to, but the mechanics of them are very, very different. And there’s, you know, there’s a list of other things as well, including nonprofits, or even pure artistic activities, art projects, Burning Man art installations, or you’re starting a band or some, you know, writing a book or something like that. All of these need capital and ways to organize people. And there’s legal mechanisms for that. And so knowing both the mechanisms, but also what you want to express, and therefore, what is the right vehicle for that, I think that’s worth thinking through rather than reaching for a default, which is, I don’t know, everyone starts startups, so I’ll start a startup, for example. 00:10:45 - Speaker 1: Yep. Well, now you got me thinking about the Wall Street that stuff that’s going on on Reddit and in that case, I guess the optimal vehicle was a series of memes. 00:10:55 - Speaker 2: That’s right, I do think it’s ever evolving, and you mostly mean that as a joke, but honestly, the internet has brought us some new structures, right? We have Kickstarter, for example, Patreon. There’s new ways potentially to, in the end, it is really about organizing groups of people. Probably if you’re a solo artist, you’re painting, you’re painting, you’re doing something. Individual, maybe this stuff matters less, but as soon as you have a group of people over time they are investing their energy, their effort, their emotion, and certainly their money, then you need mechanisms, governance and understanding for both what we’re going to put into this and what we expect to get out of it and what our goals are and all that sort of thing. So that brings us to the vehicle we created for Muse, which I think borrows elements from some of the different types of containers we’ve mentioned, but we think also has its own special blend. Can you explain a little bit what that container looks like? 00:11:47 - Speaker 1: Yeah, so first of all, we did believe that Muse needed to be a commercial entity, and the main reason was, well, maybe two main reasons. One is you need a significant amount of investment to develop a novel product like Muse and bring it to market. We’re talking about 3 to 5 engineers or 3 to 5 staff members for 123 years. So it’s not something you could do as a pure art project, you know, say. Furthermore, if you have this vision of impacting the world in a particular way, it helps to have ongoing self-sustaining funding for it. So that’s another reason to make this a business versus a nonprofit or an art project. The meat of what makes Muse unique is how we treat the staff and the other participants around the business. And the top level thing there was we wanted Muse to be the place that we wanted to work and the place that we wanted our collaborators to work. And that meant a few things. One is we wanted to be a relatively team, which has a bunch of implications that we can talk about. We wanted everyone to feel like peers who were at the top of their craft and operating at the top of their game. And we wanted everyone to be treated as well and as fairly as possible. And in particular, we didn’t want to sort of founder class versus an employee class where they’re very different, as in typical startups. And lastly, we wanted a sense of dynamism in the staff and the team, where people come in, they go, and that’s a very natural thing to happen, and you’re less kind of bound and handcuffed to the company. And furthermore, you’re also not constrained in how far you can rise in terms of your impact and your influence and your ownership, just by virtue of when you joined. It’s more a function of your contributions and commitments to the company. So those were kind of our goals that inform the structure and then in terms of where we ended up, well, first of all, we did end up with the Delaware Corp, which is the standard vehicle for startups, among other things, mostly because that’s the best understood by all the potential participants, staff, investors, and has the best support for people having ownership, a variety of people having ownership in the firm, which was really important to us. But then where we went in a quite different direction was this idea of a partner. So at a typical startup, you have sort of three classes of people. You have the investors, you have the founders, then you have all the employees, and they’re all treated very differently and have different economics in the firm, and they’re a function of kind of how you join and how you come to be participating in the firm. And we want this model, like I was alluding to before, where it’s more like the staff members are peers with each other and have the opportunity to rise to that level over time regardless of when they joined. So that’s where our partner model comes in, which is sort of drawn from the world of professional services firms, like law firms and accounting firms, and the idea that There is, if you start a law firm, you get to put your name on the sign because you started it and your partner right away, presumably, but also over time people can join and through their contributions to the firm and their commitment and they’re taking responsibility for the success of the business overall, they can eventually become a partner, just like the founding partners. So that’s sort of the idea that we have with the Muse partner. They’re someone who can become a peer with the other partners and have corresponding responsibilities at the firm. So it’s not just that you’re responsible for being a good engineer, you’re responsible for helping basically directs how the business operates, making big business decisions and things like that, and you have corresponding economic interest in the business, much more so on a percentage basis than a typical employee would have. So I guess if I had to summarize with the partner, it’s the idea of we want everyone to act like a real owner in the business, and in order to do that fairly, you need to actually make them a real owner in the business. 00:15:24 - Speaker 2: One way to understand the business structure or how the container is different, is to compare and contrast with other options. You mentioned taking investment, we did take some seed funding from a lovely firm called Harrison Metal, who happily turned out to be understanding or at least willing to try out. Weird model here, but you could compare to other ways of doing this. So bootstrapping, for example, and there’s a few different approaches on this. I’ve done this in past businesses where you essentially do consulting work on the side or maybe it’s kind of related to you can try to sell your product to someone, but you sort of do some consulting. With them at the same time that like helps you pay the bills until such time as the product is self-sustaining, or something you see a lot in the iOS developer world is these what I call these indieDevs. Many times they have multiple apps, but it’s usually one person or maybe two people tops, and they can craft an app in Pretty short amount of time, a few months, maybe they’re doing it on the side, maybe they have other kind of some passive income from existing apps, or maybe they’re just doing it in their extra time alongside a job, and they can do that reasonably in 6 months, put it out on the app store, and then start making not a huge amount of money, but enough to make it pretty worthwhile for a single person. But as you pointed out, for Muse, which has this first of all very forward thinking or trying to reinvent a lot of these gestures, the human computer interaction aspects, the tablet power user interface, there was just a big investment first on the research side when we were in the research lab, but then even once we left the lab and we’re trying to take this kind of validated prototype and turned it into a product people can really use that just took a lot of time, a lot of iterations in a way that let’s say a safer kind of app wouldn’t. And similarly, there’s something that I do think is common in the startup world, which is big investments in design and brand, and you expect this from Slack and Tesla and Apple, and certainly Any up and comer startup, you have the money to be able to put a lot of effort into that sort of thing, and maybe we didn’t want to be quite at that level, but I also felt that a lot of investment there was part of allowing this first part of what we wanted to express artistically, but then secondly I think necessary for it to be successful. So that sort of says, OK, the iOS indie developer path or bootstrap path is really not viable. We need a little more upfront capital than that. But then you can compare it to startups where, in fact, by start-up standards, the amount of money we’ve taken is ridiculously small. I don’t think it would even count as a precede. And furthermore, coming upon 2 years into this, we’re a 5 person team with no particular plans to expand, but in the startup model you’re expected to really quickly scale out the team, be 8 people, 10 people, 12 people in that first year or 1st 2 years. And so from that perspective, the 5 person team, we would be growing much too slow, but we felt that that rapid team growth first of all, wasn’t necessarily quite the kind of environment we wanted to work in. And second, it wasn’t quite right for what we wanted to express with the product. And so we ended up in this middle ground that was neither the bootstrapper path nor the startup path, and that led us to thinking, OK, how do we get some investment, be able to make that investment in things like design and brand and exploring this more radical interface, but not necessarily go on the, you got to become a unicorn startup path. 00:18:49 - Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Another way to think about the funding situation would be, as you get more funding and you have more external investors and owners, you tend to have fewer degrees of freedom. So at the extreme end of you’re a large publicly traded company in many respects, including basically legally at the whims of the owners, they can more or less insist that you act purely in their best judiciary interests, and if they don’t like what you’re doing, they can take over your company by various means. And at the other extreme, you would have the art project where you’re in your house, you can do whatever you want. And, you know, in some respects it’s nice to be doing the art projects you have infinite degrees of freedom, but then you don’t necessarily have the capital and the collaborators and the teammates in a sense to help you accomplish a bigger mission. So, when we were looking at funding the venture, we wanted to go in the direction of raising a little bit of funding, but no more than we kind of strictly needed to, A and B. In order to minimize the extent to which raising that funding impinged on the desired degrees of freedom in the firm, we raised the funding from people who were aligned with our sense of mojo, if you will, or what what we wanted to do with the venture, and we’re therefore not going to use the fact that they were investors and owners as a way to shape the business in a way that wouldn’t fit with what we wanted to do. So being aligned with the investors was important, I think. 00:20:10 - Speaker 2: Another piece of the puzzle on funding and money flow generally is that all businesses should go through this cycle of they need upfront capital, even if you’re a lemonade stand, you gotta get the lemons and the pitcher and the cups and the poster board and the marker so you can make your sign. Everyone needs some amount of capital, but there’s always this cycle where initially you’re in the red. You’ve put in capital but you haven’t produced a functioning business yet and you hopefully over time in that time period could be very long. I’m gonna say for, you know, a business like Amazon, maybe it took them a decade plus to go to cash flow positive, whereas maybe for more bootstrap things you expect to get there basically right away, but for us, we wanted to have enough capital to make these investments we knew were necessary to even get a product that people would want to use or pay for. But it was also important to me or it was part of what I wanted to express with the business was to make a self-sustaining business where the product exists because people are paying for it, not because of continuous injections of venture capital. And partially this is my experience in the startup world, both with my own companies and other companies I’ve advised. But in the end, you will always serve the needs of the people who give you money, and that’s just kind of the physics. You can resist that in some ways, but it’s just kind of the long term, you’ll always converge to that. And so if your customers are the ones giving you money, then they’re the ones you’re serving. But of course they can’t. Maybe putting aside some unusual cases of big Kickstarters or whatever. For the most part, you can’t be completely customer funded to start. That’s where professional investors can really help out. They want to give money to fledgling businesses for a chance at a return, and so that’s a good deal. But if the startup path tends to be one where there’s long, many, many of capital and so you’re in some ways I’ve seen the it’s quite a joke or a criticism or something, but they say that startups in many cases their product is their stock. What they’re really trying to do is sell their stock and sell it for ever increasing prices and the product that they give to users and maybe even charge for but not enough to break even, that is secondary. And I really wanted the other way around, which is, of course, we need to do our fiduciary duty to our investors and give them hopefully a solid return over time, but ultimately, the sooner we can be funded by customer money rather than investor money, I think the more that will shape the company and the product that I want to make in a way that really is focused on serving customers. 00:22:48 - Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And one of the reasons that I like that approach is I basically prefer to serve paying customers versus free customers in general. This goes back to kind of the patio 11 thing of, you get what you charged for or something, where customers who pay serious money for tools tend to be invested in them and want them to succeed and understand their value and things like that. So it’s yet another reason to focus on paying customers. 00:23:11 - Speaker 2: Yeah, it’s a way to filter out people who really find a lot of value in your product from those that like free stuff. Everybody likes free stuff, that’s fine, but I think a business and a product works out best if you can have that real focus on, here are the people that get the most value from what I’m doing. Yeah I’ll note that I think it worked pretty well for us, this idea of we’ll take this seed-ish round, and then we’ll try to use that to get to, if not profitability, at least kind of a sustainability, at least not be losing money, and that really did create a lot of urgency on the team, I feel, to charge sooner and it was a challenge actually because I think as craftspeople. You think, OK, I don’t feel ready to charge money for this yet. I think it can be better. It still has bugs in it. There’s so many features to add. It’s a very natural thing when you hold yourself and your work to a high bar, but then you made this spreadsheet that basically mapped out cash and how we were spending it and what would happen if we started charging and it really made a difference starting charging just a few months. Earlier, because it really takes time to build up your customer base and that that is recurring over time, we could get to this sustainability on a trajectory that would allow us to not need to sort of go back to the well for for more funds and or just go out of business, and that was really focusing and I think it pushed us to charge a little sooner than maybe we would have otherwise. And that in turn I think really changed our relationship with our users who are now customers because now we have a different obligation to them and I think that further focused our ability to make a good product. So overall that kind of charge money sooner and then in turn try to grow into that price you’re offering or that product you claim to be offering. For me that was a really powerful focusing thing for the team and for the product. 00:25:03 - Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that was big and by the way, it was made all the more challenging by our take on pricing on iOS. Part of the hypothesis about how this venture can work with a small team, a relatively modest amount of funding, but still reaching self-sustainability. Is a prosumer price level on the $10 a month, $100 a year range, versus almost all iOS apps, which are $0.03 dollars, $5 maybe $999. It’s the wrong number of zeros to be able to make the physics of the business work. And so at the same time as we are craftspeople who it’s tough to charge for a product that isn’t where we want to be eventually, we’re also dealing with the challenge of we’re doing something quite different with iOS pricing, so it’s dealing with two things at once there. 00:25:47 - Speaker 2: Great, so we’ve got kind of this partnership model, small talent dense team, people who are all owners in the business. We’ve got a small bit of seed funding, so we can do a bigger investment than a pure bootstrap thing, but something trying to get to Sustainability sooner, and not be on a long term kind of multiple rounds of investment, and we’ve got prosumer pricing that potentially makes it possible to get to something sustainable for a 5 person team within kind of the physics of how many people are out there that need a tool like this, and what they’re willing to pay and that sort of thing. So that was, I think, kind of roughly the picture we put together, we wrote an internal memo that outlined mostly everything we just talked about back in the summer of 2018. So now the question becomes, OK, we’re coming up on two years in, how’s it going? Is this working the way we thought it would? 00:26:39 - Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it’s working out great so far. Now, there is a huge question mark around the financial success and viability of the business. We haven’t fully demonstrated that yet, and that’s a question mark that’s going to be out there until we have that information, it’s hard to fully evaluate this model, right? But in terms of how it feels to work day and day and the staff that we’ve attracted, that feels. Great to me, and I especially love this feeling with the partnership model that you have 5 people who are operating at the top of their game, and who you fully trust to make great decisions for the business independently. That feeling is awesome and really helps us, I think, move quickly and punch above our weight, even as a 5 person team. 00:27:19 - Speaker 2: You know I’ve always kind of liked the what I think of as the pirate ship model, kind of a group of people who band together for a common purpose, but it’s not this top down classic command and control. One person is in charge, everyone else just executes, and individuals can pursue their own decision making, as you said, but the reality is, I think I don’t. how it would be with even more than 5, but certainly any, I don’t know, before this you were working at Stripe as part of a big team there and amazing company, but it’s just there’s hundreds or I don’t know even now thousands of people and there has to be some coherence to the decision making and so that in turn leads you into cascading OKRs and all the Big company stuff you think of it’s necessary, and you know, I think it’s necessary to do something at that scale, but for me personally, yeah, it is a lot more fun to make individual decisions for my own work and then for my teammates to be able to trust that we have enough shared vision, alignment around purposes, sense of trust in each other’s capabilities as craftspeople, but also that we were seeking a similar outcome in the business. And that people can have a lot of autonomy while at the same time, we’re working together for a common purpose. We’re not making decisions that contradict each other or will make the whole thing feel incoherent. 00:28:33 - Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And furthermore, I think there’s a sort of talent arbitrage that we’ve been able to pull off here in two respects. First of all, I think people are stepping into a level of responsibility and impacts and skill that they wouldn’t have stepped into so quickly or just such a. extent, if they were in a bigger organization where they had a more specialized and confined and limited and structured role. And that’s the result of you give people responsibility, you trust them with it, and you make them big owners in the business, and they take that very seriously, and they tend to step up to the challenge if you find the right people. And second of all, I do think that the model is very attractive to some people, and I won’t put on the spot here, but I, I think people have found their way to the venture that otherwise they’re basically not hirable by general purpose companies, right? But because the model is so unique and attractive, and because there is that mojo, I think you can bring people into the venture that otherwise you basically wouldn’t have been able to hire. 00:29:27 - Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, looking back at this almost 2 years, we’ve been doing this slightly unusual model. I actually went to review the memo that we wrote back in summer of 2018 just to kind of look at our original goals and see the degree to which we’ve executed that versus it’s evolved. And one interesting thing in there was essentially what the risks or open questions are, and I’m happy to say that two of those we’ve already answered in that. Intervening time, just as we’ve discussed. One is just our ability to raise money. So we went out to look for seed funding from the kinds of investors who normally would invest in startups, and we had kind of a weird story where we basically said, look, this isn’t unicorn potential. We’re not trying to follow the standard startup model. We do think there’s something quite interesting here. We think there’s a potentially a very good business here. But, you know, we’re explicitly not on that path, and we’re looking for less money in exchange for less ownership, and we’re not gonna fit the normal model and for many, actually most investors, that was a, well, we like what you’re doing, it’s interesting, but this just doesn’t fit our model. But we did manage to find some folks who liked what we were doing and certainly it helped, I think a lot that you and I have and others on the team, you know, we have a really nice CV. In the tech world and the amount of money we were asking for was so small that people felt they could take a risk. I think that would be tougher to do without the career capital that we have in this particular team, and I would like to see if there are more businesses that can do with a model like this. It would be nice if it was more possible for people who didn’t necessarily have the background of Stripe and Hiroku and whatever else to be able to get this kind of funding. So that’s one item to risk is the raising of money. The other one is the ability to hire, and I think I outlined that in the previous podcast episode on this, which at the time we’d just been joined by our fourth partner, Leonard, but it’s one is can be an outlier, so I thought, OK, well, we got pretty lucky with that, and he really seemed interested in being not just a great designer as he is, but also someone who would have broad ownership in the business and interested. All pieces of it, not just his sort of specific discipline, can we replicate that? And the addition of Adam Wulf to the team made me say, OK, yeah, it seems we can, right? We got not just the original three who wanted to do things this way, but then 2 more we were able to attract, as you said, maybe even people we wouldn’t have been able to hire if we were a slightly more conventional company, that that was appealing to them. And I do think it’s not a highly scalable model, but it’s scalable enough to serve our purposes, and we have no plans to expand the team beyond 5 for the foreseeable future, but we also think that’s the right number of people to execute on this vision. So from the perspective of answering those two risks, I would say that is going well. 00:32:02 - Speaker 1: What are the other risks on the list? 00:32:05 - Speaker 2: Uh, the other big one is the one that you just mentioned, which is can we get sustainability, right? Because I think that for the record, at the time of this recording, we are not revenue sustainable. Let us say if we run out of our little nest egg in the bank here, we would not have enough to keep the business going, at least in its current form. But the graph is trending in the right direction, we have new customers every week, and if you look at the way that the lines meet in terms of, you know, bank account going down, revenue, and new customers coming in, we do think it is viable to get there, but we won’t know until it happens. So I think that remains the biggest risk, and if we do start to get close to being in the red on the bank account, and then we have to ask the question of, OK, you know, do we just sort of give up and go to business, to be revenue based financing, which could be interesting, but I think maybe we might not be the right shape of business for that, or do we go back to Silicon Valley investors, but now we’re sort of like breaking our model, right? We’re saying, well, we were just going to raise this one round and charge money right away and try. get to sustainability based on that, but if we need to go and refresh from that well, that pretty naturally takes us into just the startup path of raising perpetual rounds of funding, and your eventual outcome is acquisition by a larger company or in some cases going public, but I just don’t think we have the right kind of business, nor is what we want to express the sort of thing that makes sense for a big public company, right? Yeah, and then addressing the more personal side of it, which is just creating this company, this vehicle uh that is a place we want to work. I like you wanted to be a little less of a manager, a little more of a maker, and It is interesting because, you know, we do spend a lot of time. I spend a lot of time tweaking CSS and manually typing expenses into QuickBooks, which is a perpetually rote and frustrating activity and many other small things that were, how we raised a little more money on the startup path. Yeah, we would be hiring office managers and other kinds of people we would have a bigger team that would mean that we could do less of that stuff. You get more leverage or something like that, but that’s actually what I wanted. I’ve gone both directions and I think I’m at my best when I’m, I like being on a team, that’s really important to me. I want to do things that are big enough that they require a team as opposed to just, you know, kind of a solo activity or even like a two person partnership. But I like to be on a very small team where you can be doing a lot, but most of what you’re doing is making, I would call it, rather than the management and leadership tasks that come naturally with the expansion of a team. 00:34:42 - Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And I think in addition to this maker versus manager access and how that’s influenced by the size of the team, I also think that a smaller team gives you more degrees of freedom, which is great if you’re someone who just likes freedom, like me, but it’s also great if you want to do something unique that requires moving several variables at the same time. So for example, this local first idea that we’re working on, this idea that you have all the data on your device and it’s very quick to access and it’s secure to you and things like that, that requires pulling levers on engineering, products, business strategy, the client side, the server side, interfacing with the research at the lab. There’s all the stuff that you Got to kind of pull together. And if you had to coordinate a bunch of people to do that with meetings and planning documents and all that, it would take forever. It might just not get done. Whereas if it’s a small number of people or even one person, you’re much more able to come up with these weird combinations of variables to produce novel results. And that goes back to this idea of making a statement or building something unique for the world. 00:35:43 - Speaker 2: Another element of degrees of freedom is outcomes. So outcomes could include, you have a profitable business, but it could also include something like an acquisition or an IPO and the startup world, there’s really the outcomes that matter are acquisition, IPO, or go out of business, and that’s sustainable but moderately sized business is a non-goal. That’s actually a bad outcome from the perspective of investors and the whole. The system is kind of built around that. You shared a nice article with me some years back called VCM Math, which I’ll link in the show notes, but the way the person puts it is, you know, venture capitalists in pushing these businesses to become a billion dollar company in 10 years. This is not because they’re jerks, it’s because the model demands it. This is how it works. That’s where this money comes from. It’s only possible if you push for these polarized outcomes. And that’s well and good if you know what you’re getting into and you’re seeking that kind of go baker bust result, but for the, I think potentially large number of potential mid-size businesses, very solid mid-sized businesses, that’s of course not a fit. And so by keeping that smaller amount of Capital upfront, keeping the team smaller, we leave more possibilities for what counts as a good outcome. And so, of course, we still can have a startup style outcome, and that might be something we consider good, but there’s also other outcomes that I would consider extremely good. But that in turn leads into, OK, how do investors as well as the partners who have this significant equity stake and in fact are taking lower salaries than they would in other places in order to get this equity stake, but how does that equity become worth something? So the startup world typically it’s through. or IPO and there’s no other outcome. So you did quite a bit of work on the financial pieces that could potentially make this work. So how do investors or partners over the long run, if news is able to be a successful and profitable business, how do they realize the results of their effort? 00:37:52 - Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a tricky one. So certainly if there’s a standard outcome in the startup world, like an acquisition or something that’s straightforward and it’ll work like other places, just the percentages would be different because again, we’ve given much more ownership to the staff. But if you are profitable, it’s quite challenging. So I hope our listeners who have joined for discussions of gesture-based interfaces will forgive my aggression in US tax law here, but it’s actually really important for how you compensate your staff. So, tax and securities laws makes it quite hard for people, individuals to get cash out of a company like this, and I can kind of play through the different scenarios that we thought about. So one thing we’ve considered is the idea of small scale tender offers. This is where a company or someone else offers to buy shares from existing investors and in that way, existing owners of the equity could get some liquidity and have cash to support their families or what have you. 00:38:46 - Speaker 2: And small digression there when I first encountered the term tender offer, I just thought it was the sweetest thing. Here’s an offer for you tenderly for your shares, but I, I don’t think that’s what it is. It’s, it’s that they are tendering an offer, right? But it basically just refers to an internal stock purchase, right? A transaction where one person has some and they’re going to sell it to someone else on an open market transaction. And is that similar to or the same thing as stock buybacks and kind of public companies? 00:39:13 - Speaker 1: Yeah, so a stock buyback would be buying the stock from the public, which I guess could conceivably be some of your staff if they own it on the public markets, where the tender offer, I associate that more with a more closely held private company, and it’s not a public transaction, it’s more of a private offer to specific individuals to buy the equity. 00:39:33 - Speaker 2: How does that relate to, we mentioned taking inspiration from the partnership model, attorney firms, and so on, and I think it’s pretty standard there that when you’re going to leave the firm, they buy you out, right? Even maybe with a restaurant, you know, you can imagine a couple of people in a restaurant, one person decides they’ve had it with the business or they’re moving on to other things in life, it’s normal for one person to buy out the other person’s steak. Would that be a tender offer or something else? 00:39:57 - Speaker 1: Hm, interesting. I suspect that’s a little bit different because those are probably LLCs or otherwise not Corps, and again I associate tender offer with basically with the Delaware Corp, and that could, for example, even be written into the contract that not only are they gonna offer to buy you out, but in fact you have to sell. At perhaps a formulaically determined price, so that way they might specifically not want the ownership to escape the currently active employees, for example. Basically, I think when you have LLCs or other non-Corp structures, things can get a little bit weirder and different just because they’re not as solidified and standardized in terms of how they operate. But there’s some similarities in spirit of, OK, you’ve completed this part of your journey and you want to get some liquidity for that, and the company has interests in acquiring that equity, and so it makes mutual sense to do this transaction. 00:40:42 - Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess they all seem similar to me in that typically an ownership stake in a private firm of any size is just totally non-liquid. You cannot really do anything with it. You can look at, OK, in theory, our last funding round value us this amount or I could take a multiple of revenue, the company is worth a million dollars and I have 50% of it. Yay, I’m a half a millionaire, but that’s not really how it works because you can’t actually sell those shares versus public markets, which of course, It’s very good for liquidity in that way, and then an acquisition scenario where one company is buying 100% of the stock of another company, and then you just divvy up that share price among the owners, and that’s why those two scenarios create exits for the investors or create ways to get liquidity for the investors and the employees who have taken options. But if you say, as we have said, You know, we don’t plan to take either of those paths. We want to build a profitable business that goes in perpetuity, making good software. OK, then how do I ever realize the outcome of my shares? And so the tender offering is one mechanism, as are these others we mentioned for creating liquidity isn’t the word for it, but just the mechanism for one person to sell their shares and get out and get some money to someone else who’s maybe more active in the business. 00:41:58 - Speaker 1: Yep, yep. And another nice thing about tender offers is they don’t need to apply the same to every person, by which I mean if it’s just the case that you or someone else because they’re leaving or whatever, wants to make this exchange, we could potentially set that up versus having to do something equally on the basis of current ownership. And another example of something like that would be a dividend which we can talk about. Yeah, there’s a lot to like about tender offer, but it’s not something that we would do lightly. There’s a variety of reasons. One is that you need quite a bit of capital for it to actually make sense for it to be material, and for you to have an appropriate amount of cash in the bank and the company even after the transaction. So in that sense, it’s definitely a ways out. But also, unfortunately, there’s all kinds of really weird tax consequences which we don’t need to go into the details here, but Basically, by doing a tender offer, you could potentially impair the equity of the other owners, if you do it wrong or do it at the wrong time or do it too much. So it’s fairly fraught. But it’s a potential thing out there. Another thing that we thought about and liked was dividends, and dividends are nice cause they’re very mechanically fair. 00:42:56 - Speaker 2: Big fan of dividends. Yeah. So just to define that, this is the idea that in a way it feels like almost the purest expression of capitalism or how businesses are supposed to work, which is when a company turns profit, they can choose to take some portion of that profit. Some, they’ll reinvest back in the business, kind of retain earnings, I think that’s what that is usually called, but then the rest they say, hey, we made some money, let’s share it with everyone who helped make this business happen. And that share is determined by your ownership in the company. And so for me, I had a, I guess personal experience with this in my very first business, which was a basically a bootstrapped. Business, a payment gateway called Trust commerce, and we had been operating, I don’t know, founders, you know, living on their own savings and whatever, just trying to pay our bills with whatever money came in, or trying to pay the basic business bills, servers and offices and phones and stuff like that. And I remember the first time we were left with $1000 in the bank account that was not accounted for us, well, what should we do with this? Well, we could pay ourselves, that’d be great. And so we wrote dividend checks for $300 for each of us, because there were 3 people in the company, and it felt really great. It felt like this, we made a product that people valued enough that there was a little bit left over that then we could give to ourselves. And even though the, the number, the absolute number was small, that feeling of kind of profit in its purest form is a really nice one. And so dividends are just the idea that the company is making money, so you share it with the owners, and that’s something. It’s not really part of the startup world and even not really as much a part of, I feel like public equities, where I think they could usually call them growth stocks or something like this. I’m probably speaking out of my wheelhouse here or income stocks or whatever, but the idea of just you’re going to buy the stock in a company, so that then when that company makes money, they send you a dividend. Those are usually a lower return type of stock versus ones that are based on the growth of the stock itself. You buy it at a lower price, you sell it later for a higher price. But the income stocks, again, that is business at its most pure and fundamental, which is the company made money, you own a piece of the company, therefore you get a portion share of that. 00:45:04 - Speaker 1: Yeah, and it’s nice because it’s mechanically fair. If you have $100,000 to distribute in dividends, you look at the cap table, so and so has 5%, great, they get a $5000 check, and you know that everyone is being treated fairly, at least insofar as the equity in the company is owned fairly, and you don’t need to have a lot of discussions and machinations about how you actually split up the cash. But dividends are challenging for their own reasons though. One reason, for example, that you don’t see a ton of dividends in the public markets is some companies don’t have cash to throw off. A lot of it is currently, instead of being dividended out, it’s being used to buy back stock, which is kind of equivalent actually, but buybacks get basically better tax treatment. So there’s those pesky tax laws again, causing weird distortions, but in our case, it’s hard because Some staff have straight stock and some staff have options. And that again is because of tax law. Basically, the US government doesn’t want you giving straight stock to people. They view it as compensation that needs to be taxed immediately, even though it’s a liquid. So basically, to avoid bankrupting your staff, you have to give them options. But then options in uh the Corp, when you dividend now you dividend to the stock owners, the straight up stock owners, not the option holders, so that probably wouldn’t be fair to them. 00:46:13 - Speaker 2: And to be fair to the tax man here, trying to levy income taxes on stock earned for work is very challenging because that stock has zero value when you get it, and it’s very likely to have zero value ever, but then in some cases it can be worth a lot, right, that initial stake that, I don’t know, you know, the Google founders had turned out to be worth a huge amount, but the vast majority of startups and even businesses will end up. Not being worth anything. So how do you tax something when you can’t know its value except extremely retroactively? Yeah. And I’ve had my own challenges with that because I’ve basically built a career around starting companies or advising for companies and taking equity and kind of have this, I don’t know, flywheel of I basically earned some money on past ventures, and then I can use that to pay my bills or whatever and earn pure equity in future ventures, and then All of those pan out, but I kind of have a portfolio strategy, you might say if I own stock in companies I’ve started over the last decade or decade and a half as well as companies I’ve advised for in some cases invested for. And so all of that income, all of that stock was worth 0 when I got it, but much of it turns out to be worth $0 ever, but then some of it turns out to be worth a good bit. And when I can cash that out, I can use that to pay my bills and continue my career. But how do you tax that because Typically you tax things at the time they’re earned, but this can only be evaluated when it kind of resolves, which can be often 10 years later, that a piece of stock you earned pans out and has a value that can be attached to it. So it’s not an easy problem. I think it’s still an evolving area. Certainly the US tax law. I know Europe is grappling with this as well, because it’s just the standard models for how we think about income just don’t fit well with us. 00:48:04 - Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely an area that’s being worked on. It’s just too bad that it hasn’t been figured out yet in a way that would be more advantageous to basically giving staff more compensation. 00:48:13 - Speaker 2: Yeah, it can be frustrating, which is basically trying to do something that’s as fair as possible for investors and people earning what they call sweat equity, where they’re essentially earning stock in exchange for their work. We cannot treat those the same because the tax law basically means that, as you said, the people earning equity through sweat get screwed, and so then you have to create these different classes of stock and do different things, but then that effectively means You have more and more divergence in the stakeholders, which is against the spirit of what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to create this thing where everyone’s in it together, we bring different things to the table. Some people bring their efforts, some people bring their money, some people bring both, but everyone can hopefully have a sense of fairness in the sense of kind of knowing what you put in and knowing what you potentially get out or how to share in the success long term. 00:49:05 - Speaker 1: Yeah. And there are ways you could potentially work around this for dividends. You could do a sort of phantom dividend where you say there’s 100% of the cap table and straight stock and there’s an additional 40% in options. You can dividend it out 140 units, 40% to the option holders, and 100% to the stockholders, and the stock would be straight dividends and the option holders would get like a bonus basically. To do something like that, and you could even imagine doing more basically ad hoc type things like that where you essentially make a formula and then do a bonus payout, but make it more formulaic less just like, oh I think you did a good job this year, here’s a check and more you have this sort of ownership in our. Current cap structure and based on that, according to this formula, we’re doing bonus payouts like that, but that also gets messy because there is an element of discretion and also when you’re dealing with investors, like they don’t want to get a $17 check, and you got 4 more employees, you got to take down their address or whatever. This is a lot of weird mechanical stuff there. So I, I think realistically it’s, we gotta wait a few years and see how this all plays out and what the shape of the business is, but what we’ve done is we’ve built up a lot of potential energy, a lot of ownership, a lot of equity with the staff members, and hopefully we can find a way to convert that into kinetic energy to continue the analogy in the future. And I’m pretty optimistic. It is asking the staff to trust us to a significant extent that we’ll be able to figure that out and treat it fairly, but I’m pretty hopeful that we would be able to do something that’s fair to everyone. 00:50:28 - Speaker 2: So, would you recommend a structure like this to someone else who wanted to start a company and or do you imagine, you know, if you had to start a new company yourself today, would you reach for a structure like this? 00:50:42 - Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we thought about this for a very long time and it was hard to come up, and we spoke with a lot of experts, and it was hard to come up with a better setup. So one way to think of this is, insofar as we’re talking about staff compensation, equity ownership, it’s kind of in the standard Silicon Valley model, but with the percentages dialed way in favor of the staff. So in that respect, it’s kind of strictly better, I would say, than a typical Silicon Valley model. And so it can’t be that wrong, strictly better at least for the staff, I would think. And we didn’t talk about the other things that we do there in terms of very long exercise windows and more favorable investing schedules and so on, but basically, we’ve taken the standard mechanisms that are used in stock, Delaware Sea Corps and turned the variables that we can so there’s as favorable as possible as staff. And I think at least that is a good thing if you would have otherwise considered it a standard Silicon Valley model. The one other option that I do think is interesting, but that I couldn’t quite see ourselves going down was Using more like a phantom stock approach, where you have essentially an internal ledger that’s separate from the ledger that you have with Delaware in terms of the equity ownership in the company, and it’s on the basis of that internal ledger that you would make decisions about how you do payoffs. And there are some companies that are exploring this, you know, it’s like every month you work with the company, you earn a point, and then if we ever do dividends, you divide the dividend by the number of points and that’s how much we send you a check for, something like that. That’s nice cause it gives you a ton of flexibility, but it’s much less precedented, and it places even more trust in the company, because you have less of the legal guard rails to confine what they can do or not do. So I think that’s interesting because of the flexibility, and I would love to see people try that more, but I wasn’t ready to, you know, establish a whole bunch of new case law just for the sake of this venture. 00:52:21 - Speaker 2: Now, precedent is very important. There’s the general business wisdom is try not to innovate on the model, try to focus on your product and your and don’t get too caught up in company mechanics. It turned out that this was something that we were both passionate enough about in terms of the place we wanted to work, but also I honestly do think we needed a different type of container, right, that we knew that as we talked about towards the beginning there where an individual productivity tool and what you can sell for even at a prosumer price and what the mechanics of distribution and things look like there versus other, you know, there’s a reason why Venture funded stuff is either Enterprise, SAS, or, you know, a monetized consumer products. Those are models that work well with that funding style, and the thing we wanted to express in terms of the product and the thing we wanted to exist in the world, as well as the company that we wanted to work at, I think just demanded a different model. I don’t think it would have worked with another one, so I think that was a way to justify the ways in which we are deviating or innovating a little bit on the container side of it. But then at the same exactly as you said, I remember a lot of design choices we made and things like, you know, we’d love to give employees options or we’d love to give employees pure stock, but that’s just way too hard or even impossible without these punishing tax consequences. So, OK, we’ll kind of have these two classes of ownership in the company, that’s not the spirit of what we’re doing, but like, at some point you gotta bend a little bit to realities and what there’s precedent for and what attorneys and accountants are used to working with and all that sort of thing. 00:53:54 - Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think in all of this there’s also a very real morale element where let’s suppose the company is very successful some years from now, all the current and former staff are going to remember that we worked very hard to try to do the best we possibly could by them. They were like basically on all the email chains with the lawyers, more or less literally, and we would debrief and talk about, OK, here are the options that we have. What do you all think? Does this work well for you and things like that, versus a model where That was all opaque and there was not even an effort made to try to set things up as best as possible for the staff. I think that just helps people feel like they are being treated well. 00:54:28 - Speaker 2: Well, speaking for myself, I am sometimes in the position of offering advice, let’s say, to folks who are thinking about what kind of vehicle they use for their business, and kind of the new approach does come up and Certainly, it’s huge to ask, what are you actually trying to make, because you need the right vehicle for what you’re doing. If you need huge upfront capital or a big staff, I’m not sure this model can work, to be honest, or if it’s something that can be done with more of a small team, 1 people, 2 people in a shorter period of time, then maybe this is also not the right way to do it. And there’s other kinds of vehicles as well. For example, I think The nonprofit is a little bit underutilized, can be an incredible vehicle even for software and technology products. We know of maybe someone like Mozilla or the Apache Foundation. There’s many smaller examples such as processing Foundation, which does this kind of generative art coding tool language thing. There’s many others where I think if you think, OK, what we want to make is more open source or it’s more of Long term kind of benefit, less of a maybe it’s more educational or maybe the targ