Podcasts about hey i'm

Hey I'm walking here! says various lake monsters, brutal sasquatches, forest beings, ufos, and white blobs in New York. This time we are in New York let's dive in. Also the sweepstakes begins with this episode listen to this episode for more info. Chill Wave by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3498-chill-wave License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Track: NIVIRO - Voices In My Head [NCS Release] Music provided by NoCopyrightSounds. Watch: https://youtu.be/74QBQr4x3ooFree Download / Stream: http://ncs.io/VoicesInMyHead --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/MonsterLegendPodcast/message

Hey I'm back for Episode 2 in which I'll be talking about praying in a special, empowering and abandoned way.  Want to see things change in your life? Try praying like Jabez did! Bible passage: 1 Chronicles 4:9-10 Do also check out "The Prayer of Jabez" by Bruce Wilkinson. It's an excellent book on this passage. Want to continue the conversation? I'd love to connect over on Twitter (@richard_bloke) or my blog at www.thatrichardbloke.co.uk. It would be lovely to see you there.  Podcast and music by Anchor.fm

Hey I'm back!!! It's been a while I know, so here is a fresh one for ya.

Ok so the episode title is total clickbait because everyone knows that whatever activity you choose where you're consistent and that you enjoy will get you results!  But whatever gets you to listen;)  This is a great episode. Kristen of Soul Runners and I talk about all things running but more importantly I attempt to get into her Spring Program by bartering with my Group Fitness Skills. Hey I'm always on my hustle, man!   Check out Soul Runners at https://www.soulrunners.club/.

Hey I'm back! Quarantine episode #2. Some good stuff to listen to this week! I'm going to do my best to keep up on new stuff even though I have a lot less time for listening when I'm working from home. Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6iF1lqCHxzKZHpkSs7EoBD?si=0sk_TZlrQ_2F1YjvHK4OWQ

Hey I'm back with another episode!!! This week I was feeling quite a deep/minimal vibe so this show is packed with new and old gems to blast out.Thanks for listening and enjoy Marcus

Hey I'm back baby! With Blackjack and strippers! After a long break I am kicking off with Comedy Estonia guy, Caleb Brunick. He is an American who has lived in Estonia for 3 years more or less and we talk about being a foreigner and stuff. Getting a drivers license, using substances to deal with the winter and what it's like hanging out with other ex-pats   Thanks for the support, I got some more episodes coming soon

This is a re-upload of the "I want to be a hero podcast" with better sound quality. Not by much, but it's definitely a little better. Hey I'm new at this. go and fallow the insta: @stonerdpodcast

Hey I'm back! After a long absence, I (Anthony) break down every game from week 3 to week 9 with the state of the AFC north and the state of the entire AFC with playoff scenarios.

...So I fire back: You're always on my mind. Love, the World-Eater ---------------- News! See episode description for this week's rundown, but some news about what's to come for MiM is as follows: This last episode we recorded some time ago. Starting next drop, we'll brbringing you fresh content, taking questions, and keeping a rad schedule with lots of bonus content. What KIND of bonus content? Here's a hint: Stephanie's psychic and it's the spookiest month of the year. We have transcripts being migrated to the homepage. In a weird move, we're going to post this weeks at the very bottom of the notes to see what happens.  Buckle up and subscribe so you don't miss a thing! On with the show... This week, the Miracles in Manhattan Podcast talks about the weird things you've been thinking and what the rest of the world thinks about you, We also get into what it means to be single, and, in the offing, Lesson 11 of A Course in Miracles. Things get wavy. Talking points: Your hosts set up a mental chessboard. And then call it a day. Marco is at a loss for any real expertise. And the word, “oxytocin” Are you single, coupled, partnered, avaible or a quantum field? Tell us in an email! What are you REALLY doing at Trader Joe's? Lots of talk about Zen…An  A for effort is awarded  Spoiler Alert! [The world is not meaningless] We’re taking life-questions. Email us! miraclesinmanhattan@gmail.com Find more content at miraclesinmanhattan.com  @Wildmanhattan (t) | #Podernfamily Themes: Advice, ACIM, A Course in Miracles, True Crimes, Comedy, Pain, Politics, The Present, Love, Dating, Race, BDSM, The body, Spirit, Self-help, Spirituality, Zen, http://twitter.com/WildManhattan ---------- Transcript   ARE YOU SINGLE? OR, SPOILER ALERT: THE WORLD ISN’T REALLY MEANINGLESS   The Miracles in Manhattan Podcast  (A Course In Miracles (ACIM), Lesson 11)   Marco Maisto [00:00:00] That's right. But oh we should also tell people hey guys and gals we have an email address now. Yes we do. And why do we have an e-mail address Steph?   Stephanie Wild [00:00:11]So that you can e-mail us questions with questions.   Marco Maisto [00:00:13] We're taking questions.   Marco Maisto [00:00:16] We are going to answer your questions in as apt a fashion as we answer one another's here on these yes miracles in Manhattan.   Stephanie Wild [00:00:25]Gmail dot com. Easy to remember. Yeah. All you have to do is remember the name of the podcast and then Gee Mary popular. Who called Product miracles in Manhattan at G.M. dot com so just remember that. Well we'll point you in the right direction.   [00:00:40] Yeah and yeah Friels do to please e-mail questions and don't feel like they need to be totally pertinent to the episode you just listened to. No no no I need any any of you any lesson yet.   [00:00:58] My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.   [00:01:23] Welcome to today's edition of miracles in Manhattan the only show in which two spiritual delinquents start over.   [00:01:32] Welcome to miracles in Manhattan where two spiritual delinquents lead you through a Course in Miracles trying to wake up in the city that never sleeps.   [00:01:44] I am Reverend Stephanie Wilde and I am Marco. Mr. poet single guy.   [00:01:55] Sorry you'd have to listen to him another time. Yes. No I'm not.   [00:02:00] I don't know if I'm single I'm Venables With the death. I think it's like well I'm seeing I'm dating. The Lenny Kravitz guy you right. Right. But I'm also. No I think that's means that single. Yeah. Hey I'm not hooked up with a partnership.   [00:02:16] Let's let's you know how we can find out the end to that if you know the answer to this question. Email us at miracles and man and G.M. dot com because we are taking questions and airing them in and talking about them on the air and we would really love to hear from you. But yeah you know if you're single and seeing another person is also seeing other people are you single or are you What did you see available available.   [00:02:41] OK. Yeah. I mean you know maybe you know you could you know what. I think you could be married. That's not single but also available because you got a partnership with someone but you're also available whereas I don't have a partnership. You know I don't have a life right entwined. I would feel kind of easy asking a woman if she's available. That sound kind of easy. I mean you just have to assume she's available if she's on a date. Yes this is the word.   [00:03:10] Yeah. I saw an ad moving English moving and they used the word free. You know you free.   [00:03:17] Boy. That's yeah. There's a lot of confusion what happened. Well it had to be in context just like you walking around saying Are you free. Yeah yeah. But it was you know it was if you were sort of I'll try that next time at Whole Foods get you free. Are you free. I had to pay for the tomatoes and now expensive. And yes I said tomatoes. All right.   [00:03:39] So lesson eleven goes like this my meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.   [00:03:45] Now this is interesting lesson because it's on page 18 of the workbook for students and on at the end of the first paragraph it says the key to forgiveness lies in it.   [00:04:00] So this is the first time. If I'm not mistaken that the course talks about forgiveness.   [00:04:10] And so you don't have to say that you're the author of a book called The Art of forgiveness which is quite good thinking forgive the process of forgiveness is the miracle that A Course in Miracles talks about it's dissolving illusion.   [00:04:26] So this is this is a this is a big this is a big lesson today because it's it really it starts to get to the heart of the matter.   [00:04:34] So this is how we do lesson eleven the exercise of lesson eleven for maximum benefit. The eyes should Wait no let me go back. We need to. With our eyes closed first repeat the idea slowly to ourselves. My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world. Then open your eyes and look around from one thing to another fairly rapidly without lingering on anything in particular.   [00:05:14] It should just be done as casually as possible.   [00:05:20] That's it. And you keep repeating the idea.   [00:05:25] And it says he had three practice periods will be sufficient for the day. But you can do as many as five. But more than this is not recommended.   [00:05:35] So it's a pretty straightforward exercise compared to Lesson 10 which had like a few was almost like a little set of mantras. But lesson 11 is just close your eyes my meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.   [00:05:49] Open your eyes move you move your eyes let them rest on this that and the other but nothing in particular in casual unhurried leisurely way and then repeat repeat the idea once more my meaningless thoughts are showing the meaningless world.   [00:06:07] It says here that this contains the foundation for the peace relaxation and freedom from worry that we are trying to achieve.   [00:06:18] Right. Okay so this extends as men correct me please if I'm wrong. This is how I understand it. This extends on less than 10 which establishes that my thoughts are meaningless. Correct. This goes on to say that so is the world around correct me because we've already been introduced to the idea that our thoughts have determined the world.   [00:06:45] Right. Right. Thought from the past we're projecting our thoughts perceptions wishes expectations on the world. But if my thoughts are meaningless then the world that I'm seeing is meaningless.   [00:06:57] Yeah in a way this is saying by practicing less than 10. You're not just pretending you're not just pretending that that things around you have no meaning they don't correct.   [00:07:07] Absolutely correct that's absolutely correct. Absolutely correct. And you know more will be revealed.   [00:07:15] Like spoiler the world's not really meaningless. But at this point in our cause. Yeah. My thoughts are meaningless. So the world that I'm perceiving is meaningless. But we just don't want to get ahead of ourselves. We just practice each step like a brick in the foundation.   [00:07:40] That was actually the first time that I put two and two together I think some of these were at least two lessons really mutually reinforcing to make sense that ten is more complicated than 11 11 is basically saying you're not out of your fucking mind.   [00:07:57] Yeah you've just been mis perceiving things you've been believing is meaning outside of yourself and there's not it's just your thoughts giving you meaning.   [00:08:08] I'm going to bullet point this book did look at hand look look at me.   [00:08:12] I understand. Hey.   [00:08:15] So no this the question I have that maybe people who were listening might also and this probably explained in the texts. Forgive me if it's repetitive but no no. It's what we hear. Yeah. So lesson 10. Every lesson tells you to do exercises of some kind. Yeah. Nothing hard. Nothing. No. Just a few minutes a day. My question is this is it that on Monday I do the things you talked about in less than 10 and move on leave those behind me. And on Tuesday I I I go on to lesson eleven or two I stick with one lesson and continually practice that before I move on.   [00:08:58] No no you just do it one after the other after the other.   [00:09:01] Yeah. Really. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. One a day. Okay. Mm hmm. Cool. Yeah.   [00:09:09] I mean I suppose you could do it for a couple of days. But but but no more. It's definitely not a week or a month or anything like.   [00:09:18] Graduating from one to the other sort of thing you should do them in order. No no no no that's not what I mean by country. You shouldn't feel as if you have to have mastered one to move.   [00:09:29] No I know you just practicing saying things in a in a different way but I mean if you get rusty or you have a big break or something yeah then you might want to go back then. But I know it's not supposed to be arduous at all right. For the perfectionist in the audience. Yeah. No.   [00:09:44] No. OK. Let's get the three. Wow. That makes cool. Yeah.   [00:09:51] OK so what the hell. Into my hair meanings thoughts meaningless world.   [00:10:01] I mean I'll jump right. So yeah the first thing that comes to mind is you know kind of meaningless when you hear. No it's it's happening is semiotics is.   [00:10:15] Is that you know there is not a natural connection between things and the words that we have for them. Oh. However when I look around this room a lot of the time not all of the time I look at an object and the word for that object dimly pops into the back of my head. Sure. Right. And so that is something seems to me this lesson is trying to nudge you away from doing maybe I don't know or or at least maybe nudge you away from any sort of emotional and experience all attachments that you might have. Yes.   [00:10:53] Which is why I don't feel like my you know like.   [00:10:58] Yeah yeah yeah. And yes that's right. And I think you pointing out that what I think you really pointed out is that the word does not equal the object.   [00:11:07] I mean it's just a tag we put on it and that's what's so cool about letting you know the language you see how the tags for things relate to what one another differently. So it's not that there's an absolute. Meaning for each object we just given them tags.   [00:11:26] Yeah and but and in tags can also be even more sort of complicated and all logically or emotionally whereas if I have four photographs on my wall in a row I might look at them and say photograph photograph photograph photograph. But if one of them is of my God forbid dead Mom. That third one is going to stumble on that one not just it's not just going to be a photo. It's going to be my mom. Yeah. So are we asking people in this lesson to to not have feelings about that third photograph.   [00:12:06] No that's not what we're asking. We're asking people to realize that our thoughts are giving meaning to the photograph.   [00:12:16] Q Yeah you're giving me this look that you sometimes do where you are.   [00:12:22] To me it communicates. Are you challenging me. Is that rhetorical.   [00:12:27] When I ask snow I will question your projecting that you will thinking that but I'm not thinking that I'm thinking I'm I'm.   [00:12:38] My eyes are resting on you but I'm thinking about my words carefully so I don't get it wrong. I did it. It's like chess cool.   [00:12:51] Well said all right. Yeah. The last time we spoke I asked you what.   [00:13:03] Sort of change. Not necessarily benefit but what change one might expect or even look for after practicing a lesson like this. I don't know if that's a useful question to ask. And so we can have a why not. I mean but a lawyer. What are your thoughts on that.   [00:13:19] Well this lesson I think is really getting us to. To the point where we can really separate the like entity that our thoughts create from the reality of the world.   [00:13:42] Now we haven't seen the reality of the world yet according to A Course in Miracles. But my meaningless thought showing me a meaningless world. The thoughts make a world and none of that is real. So I think if we can sort of conceptualize the thoughts and the world they make is like a bowl and we can just set that aside.   [00:14:01] We used to think that was reality and it meant everything. But at this point we should be I think at the point where we can say oh yeah that's just ephemeral all these thoughts created this world created this experience created my whole life.   [00:14:16] Let me just set that aside and see what's really there.   [00:14:22] All right.   [00:14:29] This makes sense does make sense. And again you know once again it feels like a one to one correspondence. Don't meet with a lot of Zen that I've been exposed to. You'd hear this kind of spoken about in terms of falseness versus form and tell us more about just that. That that boy I'm going to get this really well.   [00:14:50] But that's okay. You know if we get it wrong because we're just people trying to get happy and so I'm also a person trying to remember.   [00:14:58] But yes and get happy in doing that. But that that that that that that that that objects or things are really no more than forms and in form is itself formless ness so that there is there isn't again no inherent meaning in any thing. Now that doesn't mean that like as a Buddhist I have no respect for something in life you know quite the opposite. Yes. In fact diametrically the opposite. But mental formations I have thoughts or blocks and things like that. These are not external externally provided from the universe to me or settlement. I'm not beset by them right. They're products of an untested mind. Yep. Yeah. I think a lot of misconception that I had and I know a lot of people have about you know meditation in the world that Zen is that you are you. You're sitting hard and concentrating hard on not having any thoughts. And if you think about it. That act is itself. A thought form. And so.   [00:16:18] Yeah. No that's not. We can't not have thoughts but we just recognize them for what they are.   [00:16:23] Right. Yeah right. That that procession of objects moving by as it's very very very lustrous.   [00:16:29] It's kind of cool it's not just a parade of like stuff going back end.   [00:16:35] Yeah yeah. I told you about this analogy this guy is Zen guy told me about with a mirror. Yeah. Yeah. Another mentioned I guess I'll say it again. But you know you can sort of in terms. Right. So this this has to do with me. So in Zen this might have to do a lot with detachment or unattached on attaching oneself from things. So imagining a mirror passing by on a conveyor belt even like by your face. There's a moment where your face disappears because the mirror has passed you you have a choice at that moment to follow the mirror and keep seeing yourself or let it go and you have that choice with every thought my mental formation that happens and emotionally to you.   [00:17:19] Absolutely and the way I talk about it with this client is. Detaching our our happiness from things that happened detaching our happiness from thoughts you know. So that we're not. Our happiness is not being controlled by external things. Okay. How. So where does happiness come from if it comes from source. God if you want to call it that infinite intelligence the true love which is the stuff of the universe it comes from a higher power. It's spirit.   [00:17:50] Spiritual. Okay.   [00:17:54] Let let's be nitty gritty for a minute. Oh yeah that's Yeah. So. Is that to say in the world of course in miracles. Is that to say that. Me thinking of somebody and as a result feeling happy is an illusory and sort of dangerous thing.   [00:18:20] I don't think it's dangerous at all. It's a mystery. If if you're not if you're not aware that you're in control of it.   [00:18:31] Because I can think of someone and feel in love and being in love is a state of consciousness and I and I'm in love with two people right now and I can think of either one of them and just so much fun it's lovely. But but I know that it's a state of consciousness and it's not anything that I can't control. You know it's not. I'm not beholden. My happiness is not dependent on them. It's not dependent on what they do right. But I can enjoy that feeling I can enjoy those thoughts but not be controlled by it.   [00:19:13] Does it does it. Do you feel that it sort of cheapens that feeling. No no no absolutely not the way that sometimes when you hear you know kind of like you know really watered down like neurobiologist about love it's chemicals and shit like that you know the sort of stuff that you hear.   [00:19:36] No I mean it's I think it's chemicals plus consciousness right.   [00:19:42] Yeah I'm saying what I guess what I'm saying is when I hear that sort of stuff and I know yes I get it I get it you know there are chemicals that make you feel good. Yeah. But somebody is saying that in order to sort of again like cheapen or cheapen might not be the right word but to sort of dissociate the experience from from the experience that I want it to be or or believe it to be.   [00:20:09] Yeah. No I understand that.   [00:20:12] That can engender fear and anger because underneath anger is fear because I think you know where we are at less than a living because all of a sudden everything seems meaningless. Right. It's not you know.   [00:20:25] Right but but it doesn't mean that I'm going to treat the other person as disposable. I'm going to treat them as as a child of God. I'm going to treat them as as equal and as valuable as I am and with a great deal of respect.   [00:20:42] Right. Right. Do you have to see them as a child of God.   [00:20:49] In order to what.   [00:20:52] Do that do you. Yeah I think so. Okay. I think so. And that's why spiritualism appealed to me because that's how I was seeing people and when I found the religion that's what they said we are each a spirit in a body we're absolutely equal right. We're absolutely as valuable as each other and we are like drops of water in the ocean we're part of this consciousness we're part of infinite intelligence we're part of source quantum field if you want whatever you want.   [00:21:18] Now China this why this is kind of the perfect body cast because at this point this is like a point where this sort of sub dialogue that you and I have about like comparing this to the Zen stuff parts ways a little parts ways I think because they're there is because I'm not even going to try to speak and articulate you know like a Zen Buddhist view of deity after life soul of spirit anything. But it's it's definitely much more downplayed. Yes that all realize that. But in in a way that that I've experienced very positively. And I have to come back in future episodes with more thinking on that but I don't mean to say it parts ways completely but I will say that our atheist listeners should stick with this podcast.   [00:22:11] Yeah well I mean and that's why no one path is better than the other. I mean there are as many paths to happiness peace enlightenment or whatever you want to call it as there are people and you find the one that is best for your personality you find the one that's best for you as you are right now on Earth and they all lead to the same place so that you catch you catch him.   [00:22:39] Yeah all right.   [00:22:41] Okay well no I think any sort of summary or in any kind of parting thoughts on lesson eleven from you Steph. No no. I think we did well here I think I'm good. It's good. Yeah I think we did well it feels like a very functional and reinforcing and not a maintenance can step at a step that yeah that you need because you can't have ten without this. Yeah. Who are your your little maybe two something like that. Yeah.   [00:23:10] Listen I stick with it because again. Yeah. Spoiler alert the world is not meaningless.   [00:23:16] Spoiler alert I'm looking at Stephanie's copy of this book which lives at my house for her convenience.   [00:23:26] It's highly marked up there are posted at the end so that tells me so. And then should you as well. Yeah.   [00:23:38] All right so we'll see next time. Oh yeah. In the meantime miracles in Manhattan at G.M. dot com.   [00:23:43] Yeah. And I'm just saying that now we know where we're a little young in this podcast.   [00:23:47] Still this is this will be the 11th of 12 episode that you will be listening to and we're figuring out if this is going to be a weekly or bi weekly drop and soon we'll find out. So just yeah levitation if you can with us as we work that out because we have to do over 350 so. Okay. But my God we're gonna be happy at the end of it we'll be different.   [00:24:18] Beautiful people. Thank you so much for listening. Have a good week or two days.   [00:24:24] Bye bye.    

Have you ever told yourself "Hey I'm really proud of you." To some it may be easy to list out their accomplishments to others, to same it may be difficult. Sometimes our goals are slowed down by the wrong mindset.  --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/pause-sip-ponder/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/pause-sip-ponder/support

Hey I'm back, I am sorry that i was gone for a while but hey I will be doing this for as long as I can, sorry that this is kinda short

Hey I'm beachside and heard I messed up the podcast apparently. Which is completely unheard of anyone doing ever so heres an update.  (I wrote that part of the description an hour or so ago and thought it was funny, but reading it back it sounds like I'm being condescending and let me tell you thats so completely far from the truth. I feel like an idiot and I'm pissed that this even happened.) I recorded this just on my iPhone headphones mic into my voice memos. I was outside on my balcony and spoiler alert: it's windy right across from the waterfront (subtle flex) so yeah the audio quality isn't great.  The actual new cast will be up soon when I can finally get back to my technology and fix it.  Sent from my brothers MacBook on siphoned WiFi

Hey I'm am new to this app please help --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Fresh out of business college and a yearning desire to be an entrepreneur, Joseph Reyes sought a life of more than being confined to a 9-5 corporate position. He knew from his drive and high ambitions that he wanted to start involving himself in real estate - he just needed to start on the path to get there. From working in the restaurant business and as an Uber driver, Joseph temporarily took unconventional jobs that he knew would work around his schedule to spend his spare time on educating himself in the real estate wholesale business and looking for his first deal. Ultimately, through cold calling, driving for dollars and perseverance, Joseph came across his first deal and with the assistance of Don, was able to drastically change his life. Today, Joseph is one of Don’s most successful students and they have managed to generate over 90k worth of assignments in the past three months together. On this episode of Multifamily Real Estate Investments with Don and Eden, Joseph shares his ability to generate solid leads through driving for dollars, cold calling, Don’s ability to guide him through the steps and use his connections to find cash buyers for his deals. Joseph also discusses with Don, the importance of having a mentor and why you should partner up with local established players when you are at the beginning of anything you're going to do in real estate if it's wholesale or if it's real estate syndication and multi-family. Highlights:  Joseph’s Beginnings in Real Estate Wholesale  How Joseph and Don Crossed Paths Why You Need A Mentor  How to Pick the Right Mentor  Current Projects- 5 Year Outlook    Connect with Joseph #: 954-940-2366 jhreyes1@gmail.com    ---------------------------------------------------------- TRANSCRIPTION: Hello everybody. Welcome to the show. Today's episode is going to be a little bit different. I have Joseph Reyes here with me. Joseph is one of my students in my local market here in South Florida. And I've been teaching him the secrets of real estate wholesale which I'm still very much active in today despite being involved in commercial real estate and syndications. Joseph is one of my most successful students and we have managed to generate over ninety thousand worth of assignments in the past three months together. And the reason we've been successful is Joseph's ability to generate solid leads through driving for dollars and cold calling and our ability to guide him through the steps and use our connections to find cash buyers for his deals. So it's critical to be able to partner up with local established players when you are at the beginning of anything you're going to do in real estate if it's risky at wholesale or if it's real estate syndication and multi-family. So let's welcome Joseph to the show. Welcome to the Real Estate Investing podcast with Don and Eden where we cover all aspects of real estate investing with special attention to multi-family apartment buildings and off-market strategies. Hello, Joseph, I'm so happy to have you here. Welcome to the show. I appreciate you having me on. Thank you. Of course of course. Well, you deserve it. If there's anyone that deserves it, it's probably you. So tell us a little bit about your day and what you've been doing today? Today I have been cold calling driving for dollar leads and doing follow-ups, always grinding - so let me ask you this. We have obviously had a relationship and we know each other very well for our audience. Tell us a little bit about your background and when did you decide to get into real estate. So I was a finance major at the University of Florida. I was doing really well. I had my dreams of working in hedge funds and corporate America and just financial services. And after I graduated I was looking for that nice corporate gig. Kind of gets my foot in the door. Finally got a corporate gig and I was getting paid pretty well for about two years. It was really cool living, but I wasn't satisfied because I was locked into a kind of a 9 am to 7 pm role. And it was just daunting and I had to be somewhere from 9 to 7 Monday to Friday. It really annoyed me. Ultimately that company kind of tanked and I got laid off. So I was in a position where I was thinking of my next step in life and I was kind of assessing where I want to go. And I know I wanted to make a lot of money in my lifetime and I wanted to be an entrepreneur and I didn't really want to work for someone. So with that mindset, I always had in the back of my mind passive income and the concept of passive income really intrigued me and I took out a couple of real estate books to kind of educate myself on what real estate is and the whole business. And it ultimately led me to a different seminars and trainings which taught me the concept of wholesaling and wholesaling really allowed me to kind of say hey I can make money in real estate without utilizing a lot of capital because my previous knowledge which was just ignorance lack of knowledge was only thought you could fix and flip or buy and hold. I don't know about this concept so then I started kind of going on Bigger Pocket forums and doing a lot of researching to understand this process. A lot of YouTube education and then I ultimately got my first deal and then that kind of just enlightened me and opened my eyes to OK this is a thing and then I just did more research on it. And that's pretty much all it is. Ok, so we're going to talk about that first deal soon enough. But first I want to talk about a few things you mentioned. So you had a job in a corporate office and I know you and I know how talented and how motivated you are. And so that is something that I want to talk about with our audience because a lot of people don't understand that you could be the strongest smartest person ever right, but then you could get laid off for whatever reason you know your boss and you don’t get along and you know nobody had faith in you or you maybe you were not doing your job right because you were not satisfied with your position that the amount of money you were making. And so that's exactly the disadvantage of doing the corporate gig which you know is sort of the American dream like you know to go to study, go to college, have a degree, you know to apply for a job, get a job to have a career and so on. But what happens if you get laid off all of a sudden and you have a mortgage and kids and family and people that you've got to support then what happens? And so that is something that you discussed and it's so nice yet sad to hear you know that from somebody like you that I know who you are and the things you know how to do. On one hand, it's amazing to hear that you've got out of it and that now you're doing so well in real estate as a real estate investor. But on the other hand, it's kind of saddens me to know that there are so many people in that position that feel miserable and unhappy about their life and they're not changing it. So I want to ask about that. When was the moment that you decided that you're no longer going to try to get back into the corporate gig and that you know you're going to get into real estate? Tell me more about that moment specifically. I mean so in the back of my mind I just always had the thought process of passive income the ability to sleep at night and still make money always resonated with me and I know I couldn't do that with a corporate job. So I was exploring the financial markets I was exploring real estate different concepts that I can utilize without having so much capital. I explored business ownership, but I had no business ideas and I thought about the unconventional lifestyles like entertainment there's a lot of people that make money on Instagram and on platforms like Snapchat or Vine and stuff like that just unconventional professions in the world. But ultimately when I went to a training seminar like a workshop I would say that introduced the concept of wholesaling no money down, no credit, being able to assign contracts and double close on contracts that really piqued my interest. And the overall concept of it allowed me to say hey let me do a couple of these deals and kind of go into a position where I build capital and I can establish some type of like a rental for. Ok. So you’ve learned that at a seminar. People talked about risk and also that's the first time we heard about this. First time I heard about wholesaling at a seminar I never knew there was okay. And then when you heard about it what was the amount of money you thought an assignment would be? I would say like to build between 3000, 10000 or 15000 if you go to probably on a contract that's typically what the assignment fee is. And that's what was being kind of explained to individuals and that's what they always say see. And so I want to talk about this so I thought when I got into real estate I thought that an assignment fee is 5000 -10000. But we all know that we know better than that right now. I mean I do 5000 and 10000 assignments. And after what you've seen and the deals that we've done together I guess you would also get used to something else. So for me just you know a typical assignment for me is 40,000-50,000 that's what I'm trying to make in a wholesale deal. And it is possible if you do it in the right market and you have the right system and the right technique. So the first thing that I want to ask you about your first deal. Tell us a little bit about how much money you made? How did you find it and what was the assignment over there? So that particular deal was an interesting one. I was driving in the City of Lauderhill and I came across a 15 unit boarded up an abandoned apartment building. I looked up who the owner was on the tax records and the property appraiser and I saw that the owner was a church. So then I looked up the church to see who kind of oversaw like properties that this church owned because they owned several. When I looked them up through the tax records. So I finally got a hold of calling numerous numbers got a hold of somebody that said hey this is the gentleman you speak to about our properties spoke to him and he was like hey we don't want to sell that apartment. We have plans to do something with it but we do want to sell this three unit triplex down the street and then I ultimately got into a conversation with him on what the price he wants, over rental details, what was taken for rent, who pays for what from tenant and landlord. So I got this information now and this is when I'm just really learning the game and I'm googling like a lot of terms that he was utilizing so ultimately I got that property locked up and I found a buyer. I had cold-called landlords to see if they wanted any deals and got the permanent contract for two o’ nine sold it to him twenty-nine and he gave me twenty thousand maybe ninety thousand - wow I could make more than five thousand I got about twenty thousand and one deal and that was their first deal and that's exactly what happened to me in my first deal when I had my first day it was about forty-five thousand and I was shocked. I was like wow that's a life changer. And I bet twenty thousand.  How much time did it take to do that deal specifically? From the time the first contact to closing, I would say 60 days like the first time I saw a gentleman when we closed about 60 so some people don't make twenty thousand in a year. And then you may twenty thousand which just pure profit and sixty days. Yeah, most of the time was because of there's a lot of levels to a church-owned property that I had to find out through a title company. Multiple people needed to sign multiple documents and that was really the main holdup. But getting the prior getting the property and a contract signed by the church and then signing it took like 20 days. It was a process of getting all documents needed to close on it from everybody involved in the church. That's the most time. Ok. So let's talk about that moment. You drove by that 15 unit you said right. Was a 15 Unit and so you say that 15 unit -  what caught your eye? What was the moment you said ‘This is interesting I want to figure that out.’ So it was 3 p.m. It was an empty parking lot the grass was high every single window was boarded up. There were signs of light just wear and tear on their apartment building buildings as I hope this is interesting. So I just took down the address and then as I finished my day just went home and looked up or kind of put everything on an Excel spreadsheet of all the properties I found. And this was the unique one because of its situation and I know properties that had so many units can be such huge deals. And it was owned by a church. So that really sparked my interest I merely used a search engine looked up how can I get in touch with the people that own this and I mean that was a whole mindset. Yeah well, that's amazing because that's really you know thinking outside the box. I mean I have never done a deal like that and I've been doing a lot of deals you know and I've been doing that for a long time but I've never done a deal like that something that's owned by a church. You know I've got to the church and then spoke with the people in charge and then got a different deal from that from the church. That's ridiculous. But it's amazing. So right after that deal, you made 20000 now. When was the time that you decided that you know you want to focus on that only on that? And you know what was the next step for you. So it's crazy I got laid off from my job I was like “Man I hate working for people I don’t want another 9-5.” Even though I was sending in a lot of applications I had work experience and educational background. So I was doing Uber and Lyft for a long time I had to kind of be disciplined and set a schedule. I got kind of annoyed and I did have a restaurant background so the restaurant gave me the flexibility to work there to pay my current expenses. And at the same time allow me to do things like the drive for dollars or find for sale by owner or just learn the business as a whole and really needed to free up my time and if a 9-5 allowed me to do that because at a 9 to 7 I had to do someone else's work. And so once I got to 20000 it was kind of paying off a lot of the loan debt that I had incurred but then I used some of the money to reinvest in the business which to me was cold calling I send a few postcards out but I wasn't really following up doing that. And the postcards like 38 cents a postcard. So I was like let me just cold call people and knock on doors. I did a lot of door knocking in 2018. Got a lot of rejection a lot of the ‘get off my yard get out’ and ‘get off my property’. Yeah - I learned a lot from that. So through the combination of door knocking through a combination of cold calling people sending out a few postcards here and there I was able to do some more deals free up my time and just learn the business overall and kind of put like systems in place to further scale. Ok so then was that the part where you met me. Yeah. And we started doing business together. So I can't remember exactly what happened there but I remember that I was at the gym. I was working out. So you call me when I was at the gym and you talked to me about this deal that you had in Pompano Beach which is an area that I really like. I've done a lot of deals over there and I know this area very well. So you were talking to me about this deal and then what was the case you had it under contract or didn't you. I didn't have it so I felt this seller was an interesting guy. Yeah. So it was interesting I lead, this particular lead had an auction date. So I was like man she must be really motivated. So the house is a vacant property. Then I had to look up I didn't get a hold of this person. So the property address and mailing address were the same on the tax records. So I had no idea how to find her. Got a number of the property owner and she was like literally be at my house in two hours. She spoke a little bit about the situation and got into the condition of the property. Ultimately, we were having issues with price and that was pretty much like a stop right there. So a couple of days I followed up with her against the notion of timeline with an auction date and when did I get into the picture. So I'm thinking this lady is so motivated to sell I eventually got her to a price that was 51 cents on the dollar which I thought was a good deal. I gave her at the time I had a two-page contract that I utilized. She reviewed and she said ok. Give me the weekend to think about it and just follow up with me on Monday because we had a conversation on Saturday when I had finally met up with her at the property. So I gave her a call on Monday. This is all speculation. So through the speculation period, I was looking for a cash buyer. Thinking like Hey she's going to sign in on Monday I'm going to get a contract. I hadn't signed on the cash buyer and I gave him a call. I was like Hey I'm going to sell a property in Pompano Beach. OK, that's all I want to say something about that. So that's why it's always important to tell people that you're doing real estate always on my end. Right. I was always giving out my business card to everybody and I would always say hey I'm a cash buyer. I buy houses. And then one of my business cards. I never remembered even meeting Joseph and one of my business cards got to him. And then he had my number. And then he gave me a call when he had a deal on Pompano Beach and I remember that deal. It did not have it on the contract but I remember that it was interesting to me because it was for the right price. I don't like as a wholesaler. I don't like doing deals that are small. I think it's too much work. I think it's a lot of work to make five thousand dollars. You know I'm not. I'm in the business of making 5000 but I would prefer to make forty thousand on a deal. And I know yeah, of course, I wouldn't. Who wouldn't? But when I looked at a deal and or somebody shows me a deal and it's 60 cents on the dollar then I'm very interested and so I remember with Joseph calling me and I was interested because the deal was it was right at the numbers. They looked right. So I told him I don't know if you have it under contract or not, but let's just meet. So we met what the day after or two days after it was a little both. So we met and then I remember that I've seen this guy that is very motivated and a very young man. How old are you, Joseph? I'm 29. So very young and very motivated and wants to succeed. And you know he's already talking to sellers but he's not really super educated about the business itself. But I did see the potential so we started working together and we started that you know teaching each other thing right of course. I was doing real estate for about five years at the time. And so I had a lot more knowledge but I was learning stuff from Joseph too. He had his own ways of getting leads and doing marketing. And he was driving for dollars which I always appreciate people that drive for dollars because that's not easy but it's very very profitable if you get a good lead because it's going to be a solid lead if you get it. If you're going to drive with that lead then that's to be your lead you're going to have not a whole lot of competition. So the price doesn't go up. And so that's the potential that I saw in the relationship with Joseph. And so we started working out these leads together and so he would drive for dollars and whenever he would need something or you know wanted to figure out how to do comps and this one property what it's worth how to talk to the seller how to work the lead how to follow up and stuff like that the fundamentals of the business. I remember the first thing I told you is that you're very smart you're very motivated, but you're missing the fundamentals of wholesale and lack understanding how to do a contract. And so I think it was about two weeks after that he came over with a contract in his hand and that contract was very interesting it was like a two-page document. Yeah, a two-page document from Google. Completely not an enforceable contract. So if the seller will decide it back out when the deal would be lost. And so the deal is good. What was the number there? It was eighty-eight thousand sixty thousand. Yeah. It was sixty thousand the property was worth we sold it for I think, thirty-five thousand more. So we sold it. The profit there was thirty-seven thousand five hundred. So that was our first deal together. So the deal was good, but the contract wasn't it. So we decided to start working together and teaching Joseph the fundamentals because it was a win-win situation and typically I charge for mentorship, but in this case I realized that the potential was so good and he had a deal in his hand that I decided not to charge him and to just walk on a partnership basis. And this is how I'm going to make money on that relationship which is going to be beneficial for both of us. So now that we've been doing some business in the past few months we've been doing a lot of business together. What would you say that you learned from our relationship? How did our relationship benefit? I mean honestly the structure of the business systems of the business understanding I guess terms of the business, having the opportunity to talk to Sellers and being instructed on what to say to sellers. But overall just what was previously discussed which are like the fundamentals, the techniques, the technical aspect knowing like hey this contract is unenforceable. Hey, this is what you need to do. Hey, this is how you do this. This how you do this is just further increase my knowledge in the overall business. So kind of having somebody to hold your hand to like hey this how you do this is how you do that has been like the most beneficial aspect of the relationship. So what would you suggest for somebody that's trying to get into real estate or real estate wholesale? What would you suggest about a mentor that they should they be looking for?  Definitely. A mentor that's proactive like active in the business versus a mentor that is not doing deals at all. So that they in the business can tell you like a wide range of things and they have the experience to say hey this is going to be an issue or there's going to be a problem or this is going to decide you should work on this particular thing. So the mentor is proactive in the business. That's I guess the most positive benefit from the relationship and just also somebody that can just guide you through various processes because you want to be alone because I mean this is action taking the business. So we are there taking action you are feeling or you're making mistakes and you kind of need to mitigate those mistakes by having somebody say ‘Hey man I've done all these deals I've done all these transactions this is how you should do this to avoid making further mistakes down the road.’ Exactly. I didn't take a mentor when I started and it took me about a year to make my first deal and everything I learned on my own and it was difficult. It wasn't easy and I think looking backward if I took a mentor then I would learn the things that that I've learned so much faster and at this point right now where I am. I would have more money. It's as simple as that. And so I think yeah you're right about finding a mentor that is proactive because a lot of people are trying to mentor other students and they have the knowledge but they're not doing it. And when they're not doing it then even if they have the knowledge of how to do with say wholesale or how to do us and investing then there is still you know at the past because they used to do it but they're not doing it anymore so they don't know about all the things that are new. They don't know about the improvements, the new services, the new ways of marketing, you know, the new regulations everything. They just don't know it. And when you're active then the benefits you get from a mentor is that you could do business together. So, for instance, Joseph's brother he found a dealer in Orlando right. And we are based in South Florida. So Fort Lauderdale - Miami area and so he found a dealer in Orlando and we got a deal because of our connections in Florida. We were able to close on a deal and sell it for 40000 more. That's the benefits of working with somebody who is active because I know investors in different areas of the state because I'm still investing and so any other mentor that you choose to guide you in the process of real estate make sure they're doing business because if they're not doing business and they're just not in the game and I'm making it and they can't overcome struggles when they need to be creative because finding a buyer and a market that's not our market. It's not easy. You know you've got to look carefully you've got to talk to people you know you've got to use your connections to be able to do that. And so we were able to do that because we're so active and that's a great point. I like it a lot. And so what's your plans for the future as far as real estate? Where do you want to be in five years? In five years is just a really build a tremendous rental portfolio. So that's in the residential side of the commercial. That'll be fantastic. Land development is something of curiosity to me as well wholesaling I think a wholesaling business just a fantastic amazing business model to make the amount of money you can make without having so much risk involved and how fast you can do things as compared to a fixed and flip who needs to kind of get a property and then it's a project and timeline involved versus a wholesale so you get a permanent contract today and sell in 10 business days. So I'm just increasing capital to get a rental portfolio and then just retiring. Yeah. You make money out of thin air. You see so in real estate wholesale you make money out of thin air whereas in a flip you have to invest money you have to put money down. You have to buy a house or take a hard money loan. And that is basically assuming the risk and it takes a lot more time. So yeah you can flip a house and you're going to be making a little bit more than what you would if you wholesale the property but you'd be investing more time and your time is so valuable. There’s an old saying “A fast nickel beats a slow dime.” In wholesale, you make fast nickels, but you make a lot of them. You’re not taking a risk. You’re not really putting your money down, you’re only putting a deposit.  If you're doing things right. You have 15 days to go to retrieve if you cannot find a buyer. Right. So, of course, you've got to be able to be on top of things. You can't lose track of your contracts and whatever you've got that's open. But if you do things right you can make money out of thin air. You can make money from nothing from not investing in properties not from putting money down which is terrific. And also the other advantage I was just talking to you about this before when we were at coffee right before this interview. The other advantage of wholesale is that you see Joseph here is of course still at the beginning of his real estate career. You've been doing this for one year? Yeah. So in the first year, you're going through so much adversity and you're just it's like it's you against the whole world. Right. I didn't make any money my first year. So the goal. Ultimately, is what you said to hold a lot of properties. That's the goal you want to make the passive income you want to make money without working so that your time is free and you can be with your family or kids or whatever it is you want to do with your time. So the thing is that when you are in real estate wholesale in residential and in commercial you're getting access to deals all the time. So the deal comes to you. And then if you've made one hundred thousand in real estate wholesale and now you want to buy a house so you could hold it then your hundred thousand that you made in real estate wholesale would buy you much more than somebody that made one hundred thousand in retail. So like if they're let's say somebody is working in the retail industry or somebody is working at something else and or in restaurants and they made one hundred thousand and I made one hundred thousand since I have access to deals that are coming my way at 50, 60, 70 cents on the dollar then my hundred thousand is able to buy two properties that are worth a hundred thousand. So essentially my money buys me more. So I'm getting rich on paper and that's what's so amazing about wholesale the fact that deals are coming your way. You decide what you want to do with them. If you want to hold them then you could. You'd be buying a property that's worth two hundred thousand for one hundred thousand and you'd be fixing it for twenty thousand more. And now you have eighty thousand in equity. Right. So you're 120 in and you own property for two hundred thousand. That's great. That's amazing and it's not even taxable. You don't even have to pay taxes for that money because there was no taxable event until you sell it. Right. And even when you sell it then you've got a lot of depreciation during the year. If you have it for a few years right. So if you want to hold properties you want to. You want to have a portfolio. Best way to start is boosted wholesale because you're gonna have access to all the deals if you want to flip properties you actually want to start as a home seller because you get access to properties at a discounted rate the best rate. Right. Because we wholesalers we get it cheaper than anybody else. We get it cheaper than the flipper we get it cheaper than anybody else essentially. So If you want to flip properties you want to be a wholesaler get properties under contract and then you decide what you want to do with them. Do you want to wholesale them? Do you want to flip them? You could do that. Do you want to hold them? That's great that's terrific. You can do whatever you want. And that is how I have managed to hold properties so I hold out I have a nice portfolio here in South Florida and that is how I did that. I have never bought a deal from somebody else. All the deals that I have bought all the houses that I own are my houses that I got through my deals through my marketing and that's what I teach you right. That's where you're gonna be in the next two-three years and I'm super excited for you. And I'm very happy to see you grow. And hopefully, you know we're going to grow together in the future a lot more. So thank you for coming to the show. Joseph, I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Do you have anything else you want to add? I would say if you get in the wholesaling business just really take action man like there's a lot of fear involved a lot of like preconceived notions like ‘oh man how does this work?’ I'm not going to make money. The opportunities there are you just have to take action and figure out your niche and how are you going to get a deal on a contract. I mean just get on your neighborhood you can find a rundown property and just knock on some doors look up some phone numbers you get a hold of the property owner and just like that in 30 days or 45 days- you can make 10, 20, 30 thousand dollars. Take a mentor is also a big thing as well because they can just guide you through the process. A mentor is a big asset. You have someone to lean on, someone to give you direction. All right Joseph thank you for coming. Really appreciate it. And you guys have a great day. Thanks for listening to the real estate investing podcast with Don and Eden. Stay tuned for more episodes. Til' next time.  

Sometime you need to wear your comfy pants. IPA's are the boyz beer version of comfy pants. The old reliable. When you just wanna come home, relax, and put your feet up with a beer, the boyz do that with IPA's. I suppose you could say they are relaxing with two beers then. Hey I'm not an accountant but I think that adds up. Anyway get your comfy pants on an listen to Cock and Croc once more discuss their everlasting thirst for beers and their extremely evident lack of knowledge. Show beerz Speedbird 100 - BrewDog - IPA - Session India Session Ale 4.8% https://untappd.com/b/brewdog-speedbird-100/3172363 51st State IPA - O'Hara's Brewery - IPA New England 6% https://untappd.com/b/o-hara-s-brewery-carlow-brewing-company-51st-state-ipa/1998488 Yeast Is King - FrauGruber Brewing - IPA International 6.3% https://untappd.com/b/fraugruber-brewing-yeast-is-king/1913910 Get in touch with us! Email: cockandcroc@gmail.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cockandcroc/

"Hey -- I'm on the market for a new job. If you hear of something, let me know!" This is a common approach to networking when in job search. It's easy to get focused on the tactical conversation of "need job - get connected to jobs" but it's usually not all that effective. And even worse, if that person doesn't know of the perfect open job in that moment, the conversation is over. In this D2bD Short, Angee shares a few more reasons why this approach doesn't always work. But what you can do is help other help you by approaching every conversation from a place of curiosity. By doing this, you have the opportunity to learn about people and places you should get on your radar --not necessarily because there is an open job right this minute, but because there may be a perfect next role for you that was never posted. © 2019 Angee Linsey Visit: LinseyCareers.com Email: info@linseycareers.com @LinseyCareers on Twitter Linsey Careers on LinkedIn

Injuries can leave employees sidelined and organizations flailing. As an employee recovers, is management demonstrating support and trust or neglect and suspicion? Liz Simpson shares the story of her laceration, the importance of communication and trustful gestures, and how NOT to deal with employees that are injured.    00:04 – Opening quote, Liz Simpson Liz Simpson You're at work more waking hours than you're at home. What are you going to do with the people that have been put there with you? What are you going to do with this? What are you going to make of it for people? Are you going to make people where they don't want to come in? I mean, I've had many days where I was, when I was, this kept going on, there were so many days and I was like, “Oh thank God, I cut my fingers! Now, I don't have to deal with them.”  And, that's crazy!   00:36 - Intro I think he's been sick. She just seems sad all the time. I think something happened at home. What should we do?   You want to help someone when they're going through a hard time. But it can be difficult to know what to do or what to say. Hi, I'm Liesel Mertes and this is the Handle with Care podcast, where we talk about empathy at work.   On each episode. I welcome a guest that has lived through a disruptive life event. We cover topics from death to divorce to that scary diagnosis and in each story, we give you actionable tips on what you can do to show empathy and give support as a manager a co-worker or a friend.   01:26- Injury in the workplace Liesel Mertes Today we are talking about workplace injuries and the way we treat our co-workers when they don't seem to be pulling their weight my first introduction to workplace injuries was in the pages of Upton Sinclair's classic book, The Jungle. Perhaps you had to read it as required reading in high school as well. The Jungle is set on the fetid floor of the meatpacking industries of Chicago just around the turn of the 20th century. Workers died in alarming numbers while working on the slaughterhouse floor and Jurgas, the Lithuanian protagonist, finds himself thrown out on the street without a job after an injury. And the book continues to devolve from there.   Now, American workplaces have definitely improved from the days of The Jungle where you were thrown out after being injured but there's still ways that companies mishandle their employees.   02:29-  Meet Liz Simpson Liesel Mertes Today we're talking with Liz Simpson about her injury in the workplace. Liz is a dentist here in Indianapolis.   We sat next to each other at a networking event about a month and a half ago and I was instantly drawn to her quick laugh if we were in high school. I wanted to share a locker with her or a lunch table. She's pretty quick with the story and there's something about her that puts you at ease. After graduating from college Liz worked as a bilingual aide in Indianapolis Public Schools and it was there that she decided to make a career shift   03:10- Why Liz became a dentist Liz Simpson A little kid came up to me, I'm pretty sure that's how a little kid came up to me and asked me like, "Who are you?" And they had these little silver teeth that I had never seen before. Yeah. And do you know, the more the school year went on and I would just see kids with these teeth. And finally one day I asked one of my co-workers like what's the deal with this. Yeah. She was like, "Sometimes their teeth get so rotten that they have to get these caps put on." And I found that the whole school year I would think about it a lot, and I had been premed and undergrad and wanted to be a doctor from the time I was three years old. So this wasn't completely out of the realm of what I thought I wanted to do.   And the final straw was that spring. So you know the school year starts in like August 20th. That would have been in 2003 and that spring. I think Miss America was on and I was watching and the next day I was at work and I was talking to my co-workers and we were talking about how they always have that platform and they're like I am a proud sponsor of whatever it is. And I told them, "Man, if I was on Miss America, my platform would be to go to, like, third world countries and like teach kids how to brush their teeth." And when I was driving home that day I was like if I want to teach people to take care of their teeth, maybe I want to be a dentist   04:37- A pivotal conversation Liesel Mertes But, at the time, Liz thought that dentistry looked easy and a little gross. However over the course of the year she kept returning to this desire to help kids take care of their teeth through being a dentist and an early conversation with her mom shaped just the sort of dentist she wanted to be.   04:59- A pivotal conversation continued Liz Simpson I took my mom out to lunch. I was like, "Well I think I want to be a dentist. I think when applied to dental school" and she said, famously, "Listen, people hate the dentist." And she went on this long tirade about how people don't like dentists about they don't like how the dentist makes you feel better if you are flossing enough. And she went on and on and on and then she stopped and went, "This is great!" And then she starts talking about how good it was and blah blah blah but that was my that was my introduction to telling somebody I want to be a dentist, is the first person I told, I got a negative answer right off the bat. And that was that lunch.   Liesel Mertes You just said I shall not be.    Liz Simpson I think I think my mom thinks I'm kidding. And I think patients think I'm kidding but I've told many many patients that when they're scared and I'm like listen this my own mother this is what she said to me when I told her that's what I wanna do. And I was like, I don't I don't take this lightly that people don't like it. So you know I think it I don't know what I would have been like if that hadn't been what somebody first said to me, you know, the person who I came from   06:11- The injury Liesel Mertes And it worked, she became that dentist. She loved her work and her patients loved her. And then this last December, her injury occurred.   Liz Simpson I was washing dishes and I think I was sort of looking up at the TV and I picked up a glass and they didn't really look at it and I stuck my sponge in swoop swoop. And then my fingers felt like it was on fire and I took it out and I had sliced into my left index finger and I'm left handed. And I sort of rinsed it off to see like how deep down in there. It was just like him or was it it felt like it was burning like I had never felt anything burning like that before.   And I don't even think I looked at the glass that I might have looked and there was this huge gash in it that I just didn't see. And my a couple of my friends at the time lived in my apartment and so I called my friend and I was like I cut my finger like something's going on.   And she came over with a little bottle of Neosporin and I was like I don't think I'm going to help this.   07:20- The hospital visit Liesel Mertes Yes, this was a job that was much bigger than Neosporin and a Band-Aid. Liz rushed to the hospital where they took an x ray and had to give her numbing medicine. A lot of numbing medicine.   Liz Simpson He was there, they took an x ray to make sure there was no glass and it got me numb. It took more anesthetic to get me now which I look back at now and I'm like That was sort of indicative that there was a problem and they put some stitches in it. And you know when, when you're a dentist or anything where you work with your hands you it occurs to you if something happens with my hands I won't be able to work and I don't really know that many dentists where something has happened where they haven't been able to work.   And so even you know sitting there in the E.R., before they discharged me and I was texting my mom and she told me to tell the doctors, like, make sure you tell him you're a dentist when he does those stitches and I'm like, OK thank you. And you know, they put the stitches in and I'm looking at it sort of like this is gonna be really uncomfortable. Not really thinking of any more implications than Oh man I'm going to take off a couple days.   08:33- It still hurts Liesel Mertes So she did take a couple of days and tried to go back the following week but there was a lingering numbness and this made it really difficult as she tried to handle her instruments.   Liz Simpson You know we hold our instruments and I'm left handed. It's like everything's resting on this thing that I can't feel it's in someone its mouth. Yeah. And so I ended up being off of work.   08:58- The first day back Liesel Mertes Can I ask you a little bit about that day so you go back? And, you think, "I'm here, I'm ready. But, you're in the workplace and suddenly you're realizing, oh my gosh this is more than I bargained for   Liz Simpson And that's why I was crying.   Liesel Mertes Right. So you started crying.   Liz Simpson Oh I was sobbing.   Liesel Mertes Tell me more about how that played itself out. Did you go? Was it in between patients? Did you cry after? Was there anyone there for you?   Liz Simpson So, at the time, we had dental students from the dental school that rotated through our clinic. So fortunately I was able to have one of them see the patient that we were working on when I realized how bad it was. And so I went out and told my manager who happened to be there that day. And I was just like this numb it hurts.   I was like I can't even because of where the Band-Aid was and I still had the stitches and at that point I couldn't even really get my gloves on correctly. And it's like OK well do I wear a bigger glove. Well then I can't hold things because the gloves. And it was just it was a big ordeal.   10:01- Feeling overwhelmed at the office Liz Simpson And I do tend to blow things out of proportion. So it's like I'm never going to work again. This is it for me. And you know I'm sure there's many people that in the same situation would be like, What if this is like this forever? Right?   And it's very hard to calm down and say OK this was six days ago.   Liesel Mertes It's this cascade of emotion because you don't know. You've never, you've never lacerated your finger. You don't know   Liz Simpson Right. And even if it had been my right hand you know the glove part would have been frustrating but just knowing like and even you know I like to paint I have other things I like to do and it's like everything I like to do. I need this to be working I need this to be 100 percent. So it was sort of this moment of what is my life gonna be like now. And so that was that was scary   10:55- Judgment of co-workers Liesel Mertes So, Liz is feeling all of these emotions at work wondering about implications for the rest of her life. And this is where I'd like to take a brief divergence from the flow of Liz's story. We'll get back to the tale of her recovery I promise. Because if you've been in an office setting before you know how these things go when a co-worker is out there the logistics of having to pick up their workload. But there's also the office talk the wondering, does this person really need to be off of work? Is it really as bad as they're saying it is? Now, maybe you've never had those kind of thoughts, but Liz certainly had.   Liz Simpson I think a lot of times because I've been in positions at a job where somebody has something happen and you're like they're exaggerating and I'm sure I had a job a while ago where somebody and I mean I hate to say supposedly because I had something happen but slipped and fell on some ice and then was off for a really long time with back pain and I remember we all were sort of like yeah right whatever. And so then and you know I feel like I'm a Christian so I feel like God the Universe whoever you believe in puts you in these situations and for me I think it's really helped me be a lot more empathetic because I remember so many days thinking back to that co-worker and thinking, Man I feel so bad and I never I think, I probably reached out at some point but, do you know, for a very long time it was, yeah right. And now I was like, yeah, I'm in this position and   Liesel Mertes You're worried, perhaps in that moment, based on your own experience, how are other people perceiving me? Which is its own thing to carry.   Liz Simpson And its not like I had a big cast on I had some stitches and a Band-Aid and all you can do is tell people like this is how it feels   13:03- Still out of work Liesel Mertes And how it feels is not good. Liz tries to go back in January. It's still a no go:  really painful. And at this point she's coordinating with doctors and specialists and physical therapists doing exercises to try to stimulate these nerves and injuries working to show the feeling of vibrating instruments and build up a tolerance. She wants to get back to work.   13:32- Back and forth with HR Liz Simpson Because they had had to cancel patients a lot because they'd be like OK I think I can work next week and leave them off then I'd be like What's the doctor. They wrote me out. So it was this thing where I was like I guess I could never I could never give an amount of time how long I would be off work which listen that's not fun for me. I don't like having to call my doctor every few days and I like having to drive out to get a doctor's note.   I don't like my body not being right like this is not some fun, Oh, hahaha like I'm still off work. I don't know. And I like my job. You know I like doing good work. I've had...and this isn't to brag, I've had so many patients that are like, "You're the best dentist I've ever had." Or I give them a shot and they're like, "I didn't feel that at all." This is what I wanted for myself. That's what my mom wanted for me and to be in this place, and listen I've been working, I've been working seven years total. I've been six years here do you know, I'm a young dentist, you know. This isn't the end of my career. It's not like, you know, let's just pack it up. This is the beginning. And to have this thing where it's like what is this going to be like, this is really, really hard.   14:50- Poor response from the boss Liz SImpson I can remember when it was but at one point I e-mailed I think my manager and my boss and I had been texting emailing all along the way like I've got another doctor's letter. And so, there was a point when I think they said, make sure you let so-and-so and H.R. know. And so I would email her and tell my manager well then my manager sort of stopped responding. So then it ended up just being me communicating with H.R. lady and at one point she said make sure you let my boss know.   And so I emailed him something, and, and this made me so mad because keep in mind this was now maybe February and the email was something like, "Oh thanks for letting me know. I was a physical therapist before I was a dentist. And so if you have any questions let me know I could be of some help" and bubble bubble blah and I almost lost my mind because it was like first of all I've been seeing my doctor a hand surgeon an occupational therapist who focuses on hand issues I've already been seeing her we've been doing things through my hand please like don't give me a break like and if you really felt concerned three months ago why didn't you say anything.   That was the I was the only time I heard from him when I texted my manager and my boss December 4th or 5th or whatever day was say, "Hey I'm headed to the E.R." when I text them when I got out and was like, "Hey I'm gonna be off tomorrow you know with my because I have to keep my bandage dry for 24 hours" and I think when he wrote back that day like thanks for letting us know. I didn't hear from him again until February. In that email, and this is a person who's a fellow dentist, this person is my colleague, even if we never work again we're colleagues we have the same degree...and the very idea that you couldn't ever reach out on your own, not responding to something that I've sent to explain, like, I'm still off with another doctor's letter...not that, but just as a fellow human being as my colleague to say, "Hope you're getting better...never."    It was something where...and I do need to add in that the company that I worked for they were sort of relocating where I was working and so they had given me my notice that I was going to be done with them from the day that they told me I was given six more months there. So, then it was very awkward to have like this last six months and then be off and part of it. But I don't know it was just it was always the shock..   18:02- They don’t care Liz Simpson And then there's part of you that's sort of like, they don't care that I'm really scared. They don't care that I'm scared. They don't care that this, and I mean it wasn't, thank God, I've since gone back to work. This could have been career ending and they don't care.   Liesel Mertes This is a theme that list comes back to you a few times in the interview. This lack of empathy and engagement:  what would it cost her employer to have reached out? Why would you not extend yourself to someone who's in such obvious pain? Liz offered some of her thoughts on the matter.   18:46- How to show empathy Liz Simpson Be the bigger person. Just put that out in the atmosphere that you are concerned about this person and let the chips fall where they may. Do you know, if they're lying, something will happen and they may not even realize whatever, whatever happens, happens something will happen that they are paid back. But you will be rewarded too. Like what loss would it have been for my boss to be like,  "Hey,  man," like, months ago, not in response to an email that I've sent on your own, to just say, "Hey, hope you're getting better." What would that have cost him? You know?   Liesel Mertes What I hear in what you're saying...even you said a few minutes ago:  "I've never been a manager. I've never run a practice", but you do bring to it, right, you've been a human being for a couple of decades right? And even even on the playground you know, when you're young like my kids, they realize what it means when somebody's skins their knee to come over and say, "Are you okay? Can I get the teacher? And when there are all these levels of bureaucracy or process our own hang ups that we get we get distanced from that very human impulse to say, so somebody's skinned their knees or lacerated their finger. You should, you should pause, you should intersect.   20:19- The impact of empathy Liz Simpson And you know, I think it's really hard. In the couple of years that I worked this particular job, one of my co-workers was going through a divorce and you know we're not supposed to be our phones at work. And if she listens to this she knows I love her. She would be on the phone all the time, all the time, and there would be many days when I would sit there, but be just listening to her, waiting for her to get off the phone to set up so that we can get started on something.   And sometimes I would sit there and think, "What is this going to hurt next week, In the next, I mean maybe our schedule get behind. We'll fix it. But what is this going to hurt if for this season I've got to let her do this? What is it going to hurt?   21:26- You can’t turn off your emotions Liz SImpson We have this idea that you should be able to go to work and turn that off. And I think it's very American that it's like you're going to go to work and you're going to shut that off and you're going to take care listen produced for the night you're going to be produced for the next eight hours. And then when you hit the door you can then turn those emotions back on. And that is not real life for many people. There are people that can do that. Good for them. I'm not one of them and there's people who they get to work when they can getting engrossed and everything in they are OK. But at some point we have to say there are people who are going to be at work and may need to step up and cry about something or are going to have to be on the phone dealing with stuff the work will get done. And I think if you've taken the care to choose good people you won't have people that will take advantage of that.   Liesel Mertes And what it can do on the other side, also, you mentioned this friend going through a divorce, is that you're still good friends. When you extend care to someone at their moment of need...you know, how much different how would the story have felt different for you if you had been so supported along the way felt reached out to you felt cared for? There still might have been perhaps a work transition but you would be telling a different story.   22:57- A story of showing care Liz Simpson I wouldn't be here. And even you know I look at my co-worker that was divorced and just how I tried to support her in my own way. You know, not as her boss because that's not how it's set up when you work for a system. But I remember, I had a family friend who's a doctor and one time I was visiting her at work and one of her assistants made her coffee for her. And I was like my assistants have never made coffee for me.   And it was so funny because one day I had gone to like see a patient or something. I came back in my office and my coffee was sitting there and my assistant she had made it for me and I just remember thinking like, "oh, my god, I've reached that point" you know? And I think she knows I cared about her. So it wasn't this servant thing or as I call me Dr. Simpson's coffee or she's going to get mad at me. It was this thing where it was like she cares about me I care about her. Let me go ahead and just make this coffee really quick. And I just thought it was such a sweet sign that she saw that I cared about her and so she was willing to do that.   24:11- How does the story end? Liesel Mertes How does the story end? Well, Liz continues to improve and has returned to work, although not with this employer. After feeling mishandled and overlooked in her work, Liz decided to cut ties early with her workplace. Moving on to another dental practice and reflecting on her experience, Liz offers these closing thoughts.   24:35- Liz’s reflections Liz Simpson You're at work more waking hours than you're at home. What are you going to do with the people that have been put there with you? What are you going to do with this? What are you going to make of it for people? Are you going to make people where they don't want to come in an hour? I mean I've had many days where I was when I, as this kept going on, there were so many days and I was like, "Oh thank god I cut my finger! No I don't have to deal with them!" That's crazy! It's like, is this what you want for your the people you've hired? Or do you want people who feel like this coworker was a godsend. You know, this person was there for me when I needed them.   25:23- Action #1, communication matters Liesel Mertes Here's some closing action points after our conversation. Number one:  communication matters. As a manager or a co-worker or friend, your silence can speak volumes. Reach out with a call, a text, an email.   25:44- Action #2, be aware and sensitive to emotions Liesel Mertes Two:  be sensitive to the emotions that an injured person might be feeling. Liz felt scared, worried about when and if she would ever recover. In showing that you're aware of their feelings, try offering a simple observation: "This seems really hard. I imagine that it might be scary or overwhelming or sad..." When you say something like that, it gives the person a chance to respond or not to respond and shows that you are considering their feelings in the midst of an injury.   26:24- Action #3, reflect on your assumptions about workplace injury Liesel Mertes Three:  just a closing question. What assumptions do you make about people that are off work for injury? Do you believe them? Or, are you suddenly judging them? Wondering if they're making it up? Liz spoke about how hurtful these assumptions can be. Are you making them?   26:49- Outro Thanks for listening to the Handle with Care podcast. Handle with Care is produced by Brian Wheat at Village Recording studios. Original music is composed by the talented musical pairing, Duo Futur.   If you like what you hear. Please take a moment to subscribe, rate, and review the show. It helps other people find us. Thanks for listening. This is a Liesel Mertes and I will be back next time as we build empathy at work.  

Episode 8 - Life Behind the Keyboard"So I told my wife and son: 'Hey I'm gonna be a blogger!' and they were both scared out of their minds by the idea..."You might think that a full time job writing a travel blog, or perhaps managing a Facebook group dedicated to points and miles, involves all fun and no pain. Besides the illusion that these folks are just swimming in free points and miles, there's a lot that goes into interacting with people from behind a keyboard. One of Richard's very own heroes in the points and miles world, Greg Davis-Kean of Frequent Miler, joins him this week to chat about the real life of those who blog about travel for a living.Today's episode timestamps:1:00 - How Richard was first inspired to start Award Travel 1016:20 - Getting hooked on points and miles9:30 - What led Richard to leave the Navy and start managing a Facebook group16:45 - What does it take to keep blogging year after year22:45 - When you meet an online troll in person29:25 - The newest member of Award Travel Advance35:00 - Geekiest thing Greg has done to earn points and milesToday's GuestGreg Davis-KeanAfter business travel opened his eyes to the perks of frequent travel, Greg turned to online travel forums and blogs to find ways to keep his elite status with less travel. After getting hooked to the world of points and miles, and developing techniques to maximize earnings with every dollar spent, within six months, Frequent Miler was born and he had a new full time career.ResourcesFrequent MilerFrequent Miler InsidersThanks to Our SponsorEarn Instant Gold status when you join Fuel Rewards. Save 5 cents/gallon on every fill-up. Terms and Conditions apply, max 20 gallons per fill-up.

Wir reden dieses mal über: Vernichtungsoperator, Telefondesinfizierer, Douglas Adams, Youtuber, KIZ, Deichkind, Antipatterns, Kommentare & Spam, Security Nightmares, WannaCry, "Crypto as a service", git, Lageregal, Magie, LSD, kreative Beleidigungen, "Hey I'm totally not a cow, wanna go skateboards?", Malcolm McDowell, Star Trek: Treffen der Generationen, Clockwork Orange, Star Trek Communicator Sound, Matrix & Sex Crispies, Das Bild eines schwarzen Loches, Anti-Predestination, "Filme, die Spuren hinterlassen", R.E.D., John Malkovich, Jet (Astronomie), Larsmenstreaming, Nekrophilie, Counter Strike 1.6, Deadpool, Brent Spiner, Friedenspanzer, Zahlenbasen, The Mentalist, Fresnel-Linse, Kill Bill, No Country for old men, American History X, Serenity, unerwartete Charaktertode, Star Trek: Enterprise.

Running my business for nearly a decade now, I can certainly attest to its challenges. My guest today on the #MakeYourMark podcast, Darrah Brustein, makes it so much easier to navigate those entrepreneurial waters. Her attitude is so positive, energetic, infectious, engaging, and she’s hitting her stride big time. Oh, should I mention that one of her free guides has been downloaded over 1.2 million times! You really need to listen to our conversation - it’s chock full of knowledge!   “We all want to buy stuff, but we don’t want to feel sold to. If you’re just coming out of the gate launching some BS at me, I’m already on the defense, and I have no interest in furthering this conversation. So if you can come in and be introduced by someone whom I trust, or you can come to an event I’m throwing, or you can start following me online and start contributing to what I am doing, and demonstrate to me that you’re someone who actually cares, then I might be interested.”   Darrah and I really got on a roll, offering one piece of advice and wisdom after another, and you will hear how our chat was a continuous stream of ideas, guidance and helpful tips that will help everyone who tunes in. We all have a tendency to admire and yearn to be like those we see on social media, and yet Darrah preaches the notion of creating the life that you love, of living your life by design, not by default. Amen!   “I realized, if I can take some of this stuff that I’ve been accumulating, and this knowledge base that I’ve been collecting, maybe this could be helpful to people,  So about a year ago I set into motion this passion project to write a new book, and create a ton of free resources and content for people who want to intentionally design their lives and build businesses to fund, and networks to support it.”   This was an episode that absolutely flew by, and as you listen, you won’t be able to hit the pause button...I like t pull a few quotes from my guests, and honestly, there were way too many here to transcribe. Thanks Darrah!   “I didn't grow up thinking I’m going to start a business, and the first one is going to be credit card processing, and then I didn’t think two years into building this business, where we’re super heads down, that I'm going to start this other business, and then I didn’t think ‘Hey I'm going to write a children's book’ - I don't even have children! There were things that just evolved because I felt like the current was taking me that direction.”   “Desperation stench is real, and we can feel it, and it doesn’t work. You’ve got to treat people as people”   Some Topics we talk about in this episode:   Introduction - 2:25 Talking about Atlanta and New York - 4:25 Highlights on current activities and plans - 5:50 Networking and young professionals - 6:15 Knowledge collecting throughout the years - 7:45 Darrah’s background - 8:45 Behind the curtains - 10:00 Experience as a Skier - 14:10 Going into corporate organizations/ Entrepreneurs - 16:00 Play the cards the best you know and make the best of it - 19:25 What is it that you want to develop? - 23:25 Doing online courses 28:15 What do you? Such a hard question - 29:25 The 55 questions to ask someone to get to know each other - 30:25 Your inner circle of friends 37:25 A gracious way to say someone “no” - 42:35 The psychology of buying - 47:25 Had to jump off the hamster wheel - 51:15 Focus on customer needs - 56:25 Wrap-up and Takeaways - 64:00 How to get involved Be sure to connect with me on Social Media @MarkMoyerCoach and go to my website, www.markmoyer.com to get access to the tips and strategies that my coaching clients get directly. If you’re looking for ways to Make Your Mark, send me an email Mark@MarkMoyer.com and I’ll get you going right away.   If you liked this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave me a quick review on iTunes. Your reviews and ratings will help me reach more people with ways to make their mark in life, business and career!

Hey I'm back! It's been a while but I'm back with a new episode and hopefully we'll be back to a regular schedule soon! Anyway, saw an awesome young canadian band in Boston a few weeks ago and they killed it.

Host of the Subconscious Mind Master Podcast and Author of the book Fear Busters, Thomas Miller, talks about how he transformed his life in his later 40's and shares the never-before-seen tools he's creating to help people become more conscious in their own lives -- it's top secret, he hasn't even shared these tools with his own tribe yet, but he's sharing them here today! We also talk about the thoughts we develop in childhood and how those thoughts shape us as adults -- and while we cannot change our childhood, it is our responsibility to fix our subconscious mental patterns as adults. A fascinating person. A fascinating hour of conversation! NOTE: Theres 2 minutes of audio that sound funny, but that completely corrects after those 2 minutes. Sorry about that! But thanks for sticking with us!    Continue the Conversation on Instagram! Website:  www.jancius.com Instagram: www.instagram.com/angelpodcast/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/angelpodcast/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLOL5Dgsssv7A4C7SLvyqWg?view_as=subscriber   Connect with Thomas Miller Website Facebook   Show Notes *Show notes recorded by Sonix.AI.  [00:00:00] Hello beautiful souls! Before we begin I just want to share a few freebies with you. If you subscribe on my Web site, your name and contact info will be put in a jar that I pray on every morning. The Angels also have me pick a few people from that jar every week to text personalized Angel messages too. That could be you! All you have to do is subscribe on my Web site.   [00:00:20] Also you can win a free session with me if you write a positive review of this podcast on iTunes. After you post a glowing positive review on iTunes, just e-mail me with your name, contact info, and review and you'll be entered into a monthly drawing to win a free session. For details on all of this visit my Web site. www.jancius.com. W w w that Gen.   [00:00:41] You're listening to angels and awakening where we believe daily life can be lived from a constant state of love joy peace, bliss, ease and grace. Why are people always searching for a better way to live? Because there is one life doesn't have to be stress filled and anxiety ridden. You can make lasting changes that lead to a life you love. My name's Julie Jancius. I have the gift of connecting with angels and bringing through their healing positive messages to my clients every day. Join us on the angels and awakening podcast each week as we explore our big spiritual questions. Interview experts and bring through Angel messages. I am so excited you're here.   [00:01:38] So today we're here with Thomas Miller. He's the host of the subconscious mind mastery podcast. A podcast he's been hosting for over six years. His podcast covers the powers of manifestation, the laws of the universe, and how the conscious and subconscious minds work together. His listeners say that he provides an accessible road map to learning how to change your life for the better. How to turn your life into what you want it to be. Thomas has talked to all the great authors researchers scientists everyone who is at the forefront of brain research and what I love about your story Thomas is that you say you started to make this shift in your life that you really came into these big changes these big leaps in your later 40s. Can you tell us more about who you are and what you do?   [00:02:33] Hi Julie thank you. What a great introduction and loving your new podcast. Thank you for having me on.   [00:02:40] Oh thank you for being our guest. We just appreciate it so much.   [00:02:43] Well my story goes back quite a while quite a few years ago I had major changes though in my late 40s. So yeah I was a late bloomer of becoming conscious if you will.   [00:02:58] Hey it doesn't matter when it happens just that it happens right.   [00:03:01] Boy is that the truth. But you know, now my heart is for folks your age to get this because then you have all these decades in front of you to really compound this incredible growth that you can have in your life and the impact that you can have on the world is phenomenal. So yeah I played my part did my role and I'm living out my journey but. But yes I have such a heart for young people so I'm really thrilled to again to be participating here with you. But my story goes back to Tulsa Oklahoma where I was born and Tulsa is a fundamental town.   [00:03:44] I mean it's a great, talk about a great place to grow up wonderful community but it just had a fundamental underpinning in it culturally. So my parents were wonderful, very loving. We were a Christian family and that has a belief system and kind of especially in that it was it was accentuated because of where we were and the teachings that were common in around our community. So life was very rigid.   [00:04:18] I mean this is the way you were and this is what you believed in if you stepped out of that then there was disfavor with mom and dad and there was disfavor with the community so you can kind of see how even though everybody responds differently it was not the kind of place that you would step out of line if you thought I mean right. Because if you did I mean it was you know there was judgment quickly would would prevail so my brother and I because of respect for our parents are wonderful mom and dad who are both in spirit now we'd never either of us rebelled we didn't become the rebellious teenagers and climb out the windows at night and you know and go do all the stuff that a lot of kids do. We were obedient. So I went to college having never done a lot of the things that typical teenagers might have done.   [00:05:12] And that belief system created a box I guess that I lived in I thought that was the right thing to do. I mean that's how I was taught. I was brought up in Christian schools and all this and I just thought that that was the way that we were supposed to be. And I never knew that there was this whole big else wise way of seeing things or doing things. And what broke all that down was after four decades I had been through two divorces and see in that model you didn't get divorced once much less twice. So I had to sit down and figure out what happened. And that was my reaction to my second divorce was spent a year kind of just shaking my fist toward heaven. That was a bad year. That was kind of an off year but then I sat down and I said I've really got to figure out what happened because I don't want to do this again. So the first thing I did is I erased that entire belief system. I was like that didn't serve me. So I got to start there because at least I'm coming from that perspective. So I need to change my perspective on everything about life.   [00:06:25] So just like you would erase a chalkboard I erased my belief system because that belief system was really your programming since childhood right.   [00:06:35] Totally totally programmed and that's why I called the podcast subconscious mind mastery because I discovered after about a year of picking my life apart completely that a lot of the beliefs that I constructed as a child played themselves out without me having to lift a finger to do anything so I could see things that I was afraid of.   [00:07:01] That I built in fears as a child.   [00:07:04] All of a sudden I'd look when I was in my mid thirties and boy it had happened just as I had constructed it so let's break down like an example because I think you know so often in a spiritual community you know we talk big and broad back.   [00:07:20] How give me an example of this. And maybe one of the. The thoughts are the subconscious constructs that you had and how you rewired it.   [00:07:32] I found this really cool thing just not long ago and I did a recent podcast on it called Destiny cards. Have you ever heard of Destiny cards. No I haven't heard of that. Oh you ought to google it. It this is really fun and cool. So I found these destiny cards and it's basically it paints a beautiful picture of our how we came in and what our journey is through a deck of regular playing cards and there's a whole lot more to it than that. But my destiny Card said that I would have challenges in two areas relationships and finances or relating to money. OK so one of the constructs that I built in this actually really got reinforced after that my first divorce the biggest reaction that I had to my first divorce was that I was going to lose the money that I had built up in my 20s and 30s.   [00:08:34] It's not a funny reaction I think it's a typical reaction.   [00:08:38] I had two young kids and I was more concerned about the money. And that's hard to admit but that's the way it was.   [00:08:46] And see a lot of people would make themselves wrong about that. Like what. You weren't more concerned for your children than you were your bank account. But then when you come back and you you know these things that are built into the structure of the universe to show us the path and show us the way like this little Destiny card thing that comes along and says Dude you were wired to have these problems oh so I was just going through C and this is where the consciousness had I been aware of that I could have chosen. We all have choice right at the end of the day we all have choice. Absolutely.   [00:09:27] Then I could have chosen to do that to react to that differently. Problem was I was blind. I didn't know. I simply didn't know. So I went with what was there and what was there created this fear around I'm going to lose all this money well then when I started to pick my life apart I spent a year doing this with a journal literally almost every night reconstructing what had happened.   [00:09:58] So I would go back to particular events in my childhood and I was able to go back and find areas where I interpreted lack of money.   [00:10:09] So that's what happened in my in my family.   [00:10:12] We never quote unquote had enough although we had plenty in our lives.   [00:10:18] So you went back and you really found those moments from your childhood where these constructs of your mind started so that you could then piece it back together in a different way. Re Re pattern those thoughts within your mind.   [00:10:35] So what was normal to me as a child. That's absolutely right.   [00:10:40] Just as you said that was the process.   [00:10:43] What was normal to me as a child was. Inflation is going to rob all of our savings because prices are just going to keep going up and up and up.   [00:10:52] And that was true back in the 1970s. My mom lived in a world where she would go to the grocery store and a loaf of bread would be 50 cents more next week than it was this week. But it stopped you know it changed and the economy changed in the 1980s and it was different. And then prices were going down. So it's like but everything was just this crisis and emergency and the fear and we weren't going to have enough and if you died without accepting Jesus as your savior you were going to go to hell and just fear everywhere. In my background.   [00:11:27] So I applied that fear to money and sure enough that fear fulfilled itself.   [00:11:35] So I found myself after the second divorce having to start to rebuild everything financially and emotionally and spiritually and all of it yeah.   [00:11:45] I love those times though when they say spirit breaks us to make us.   [00:11:50] I had a similar thing happened in my life where it was like everything just came crashing down all at one time and it took away the self identity that I had put into my career that I had Clinton to my relationship and it it made me take a step back and realize I'm not worthy because I have this title I'm not worthy because I'm finally making the money that I wanted to be making at work. I'm not worthy because of this or that I'm worthy just because I am.   [00:12:26] That's a hard one to get sometimes isn't it. Yeah.   [00:12:29] Especially when we think we've messed it all up you know. Right yeah. So yeah I mean it's like and I've I've used a couple of other tools that just have helped me with perspective these destiny cards just happened to come across my path recently and I'm finding it to be very exciting and fun but it's an astrology is another thing that I've used to just paint the picture of what these realities are. You know I'm wired differently than you are. Go figure that Julie really.   [00:13:01] So my journey and the challenges that I'm going to face in my life and the struggles that I have to go through are going to be different than what yours having to go through and you might find ease and flow with money.   [00:13:17] Know I was looking up one of those cards in fact for a very close friend of mine and that's exactly what his card was. And that's what's happened in his life. You know it's like so that I'm that I came here to struggle in that area now that I know that.   [00:13:36] And like use a pun here put the cards all out on the table and let that be okay. Now what am I doing.   [00:13:46] I mean if this was just a kind of a fresh reminder that now what I'm doing is I'm studying everything I can about about finances and money and I'm just kind of going back to the basics and rebuilding that because I had done well in my 20s and 30s and then I let all this fear come in and kind of tear the whole thing down. So I'm just rebuilding that area and having fun doing it.   [00:14:13] Oh I love that. I love that.   [00:14:16] So Thomas you've been studying subconscious mind mastery for longer than it's been popular right.   [00:14:22] You've talked to the authors the the people who are at the forefront of studying consciousness and positive thinking. What do you know for sure from all your research on how our brains work how the whole system here on earth works to get us where we want to go to really bring the desires of our hearts to fruition.   [00:14:44] That's a great question.   [00:14:46] Well so a couple of things one of my favorite sayings is when the student is ready the teacher appears and that happens so much through that process and a teacher appeared for me in 2013.   [00:15:04] His name is Fred Dodson.   [00:15:06] He's written 25 books and he and I connected through me soliciting him to record his books for audio books. He had not done any audio books at the time so Fred and I have done now 24 of his 25 books.   [00:15:25] He has been a mentor to me in my growth in this new way of being that I can't even begin to describe and not only just from a mentor as in reading his material or taking courses or going to seminars or whatever. I'm sitting in front of this microphone for hours reading his material as him so I'm figuring out how I can inflect his voice how would Fred say this. So for the last about five or six years I've literally in a sense become like a second image of Fred Dodson right because I'm trying to really honestly communicate the way that he would. So I listen to his videos the way he talks the way he and flex and try in my own skin to inflect that. And I think that's had a tremendous rub off.   [00:16:20] So Fred has been really I have to attribute where I really got most of this information is from his work. So if somebody wanted to look into that they are certainly welcome to his name is Fred Dodson. And with that I would prove again because you're not going to pull one off on me again right. I'm not going to just believe something because you say so. So I put it all to the test and what I found is that his material and all of this material really on that we are co creators I have found it true over and over again to the point where I'm still like wow this thing really just manifest. I'm getting ready to get on an airplane this afternoon to go up to Colorado to work on consummating a business deal that I created over the last three years and it's happening and I am going to make money off of this transaction exactly as I created it over three years ago.   [00:17:22] So it does work. I mean it's exciting and it's still happening right now.   [00:17:28] I love that that's so perfect. So in your research where do you find to be the most fascinating part. What do you find to be the most fascinating part of my mastery or maybe from this author that you shared what is the most fascinating part of his message that he shares you.   [00:17:49] Well you're asking some great questions. I love a journalist's background. OK well me too then will I. All right then I'll I'll get to Shay here we'll get going on.   [00:18:02] I love it. All right. That's a great question. The most exciting thing to me has been the discovery that this is a soul based journey we get so caught up in the trappings around us. We live in a physical world. You live in Chicago I live in Dallas I go back and forth to Colorado. We have families. I heard a dog in the background. You know we have kids. We do our thing right. Yeah.   [00:18:35] And that becomes the structure of our reality. So everything we connect to are the physical things around us when you zoom up ten thousand feet like a drone you know now we have the drones I don't know if you've ever flown one but they are so cool because you can just hover up above the trees and then all of a sudden you can rotate that camera all around the view and look at it completely different than we do down in the trees.   [00:19:03] And when you view our life from a soul perspective and I know that's a lot of your work and you are gifted in that area to connect with that beyond the physical. That's a wonderful gift to have and I you know I think we all can to a degree but I know there are people that are more gifted with that my girlfriend Mirjana is like you you know she will hear messages from the other side. I don't have that I you know I mean maybe it's developable but I don't have it today more intuitive maybe but not in the way that you guys do.   [00:19:46] Fred did a book Fred wrote a book called lives of the soul and it actually picks up a death and it goes through until our next incarnation.   [00:19:55] What happens in between Michael Newton also does a lot of this type of this work that we are a soul and eternal soul on a journey that we are growing that this isn't our first rodeo and that we come in with in essence a blueprint it's like a roadmap we have choice within the road but we are on a road and boy did that answer so many questions that that I couldn't figure out in the old paradigm. So the most exciting thing for me was discovering from our higher level that this is a much bigger journey than it is manifesting a new car or new house or gee I'd really like to move to Chicago.   [00:20:51] How do I pull that one off.   [00:20:53] You know it's. Does that make sense.   [00:20:55] Totally 100 percent well and that's what we're really coming into right is I don't want to say stepping away from religion but it's because I grew up going to Catholic school and I could remember as a little girl the first thing that I wanted to be was a nun. But there wasn't a you couldn't have a family and be a nun. And I knew at a very young age that I wanted a family.   [00:21:19] So we have these constructs within our minds so young and coming and stepping out of those and realizing like you just said so beautifully so eloquently is that we are souls we are souls first and foremost and we can choose with our free will to live more from our souls energy to live more from our intuition which is I believe our souls thought system on the other side here and now. So this is such fun work to be able to share the broad community.   [00:21:59] Well and I know you'll be addressing this as your podcast episodes unfold but that you can connect with those souls and hear a message other than how we came up.   [00:22:13] Hey I'm trapped in Purgatory. Get me out of here or Woops I didn't say the right word and the prayer and I'm in hell because of it.   [00:22:22] You know it's like we laugh at that but you know I mean it's serious business that I like. I believe that for 40 years. What if I didn't get it right. You know a fear of hell. And one of the boy one of the transformative conversations I had is with a really good friend of mine Daniel Dana Carvey lives here in the Dallas area and we were on a patio not far from here having drinks one night and he said you know what if there were no sin.   [00:22:55] Think about that. Think about if sin just didn't exist because as he was saying at the end of the day who really is the judge well the Bible is the judge.   [00:23:08] Well wait a minute. There are 80 denominations because we can't agree on how to interpret the Bible. So let's back up who again is the judge whether you just send or not right. So what if you just took cent off the table and just said we're all on a journey now.   [00:23:27] If I if I kill another human being I'm going to certainly pay for that.   [00:23:34] That's a crime in our criminal justice system and this gets weird.   [00:23:39] I'm telling you this gets weird don't judge me on this but when you zoom up to that 10000 foot perspective then the mindset of today that everything is supposed to be nice and cushy and soft and easy and smooth goes away and I like the book by Neale Donald Walsh.   [00:24:05] Little Soul in the sun. Are you familiar with that little book now to cancel it out.   [00:24:11] Yeah it's a kid's book.   [00:24:13] Beautifully illustrated and the story is the two little souls on the other side who are getting ready to incarnate. And one of the little souls says that their mission is to work on forgiveness   [00:24:27] But the Little Soul is concerned because it doesn't know how it's going to be able to forgive unless somebody is mean to the soul that the soul has to forgive them so it's little partner soul says well I'll incarnate with you and I'll be mean to you. I'll do something to hurt you so that you can forgive me. How about that and the first hurdle. Yeah that first little soul says why would you do that for me would you really go down there and hurt me so that I could forgive you and the second soul says I would do it because I love you that much.   [00:25:12] I got to tell you so I don't know if you know much about my story but the way that I came into this gift was exactly that real my dad I.   [00:25:26] I love him to death and I go through my first podcast I talk about all the wonderful wonderful beautiful parts of him you know his really his one flaw was women and I caught him cheating on my mom for the first time when I was pretty young in elementary school and I didn't know how or what to do with that information or how to handle that information.   [00:25:50] And then I caught him again in middle school and in middle school again you know you're in a Catch 22 you love your mom you love your dad what do you do. And I ended up feeling in my heart that I was just going to punish him by pushing him away by not talking to him by distancing myself. So I did that all throughout my teenage years my twenties and we always tried to come back together but he'd have one girlfriend and I'd hear about how he had other girlfriends on the side and I was like I can't I can't be apart you know like at some point you got to get it together.   [00:26:29] And when he passed I started hearing from him a month before his family reached out to let me know he was gone and yeah. And I ended up having a visitation dream from him. Maybe six seven months later where he was on the other side and they actually showed me my house on the other side. They were at this big party it was like a welcome home. Julie's back and I could see my dad out of the corner of my eye walking around as I was talking to other friends and family that I didn't know I knew but I knew I knew him in the dream and my dad finally came up to me after what felt like a couple hours and he said well we should talk shouldn't we. And we went outside and there was a big lake outside and the scenery changed to a place we used to go out on a lake as a kid when I was when I was a child and he left me for the first time without us giving his side of the story just vent to him about him for hours on end and he just poured tears out of his eyes like I had never seen before and he said Julie if I could go back and take that all back I would but I can't. And even more than that dream when I woke up I was bawling hysterically when I woke up and that never happens.   [00:28:05] And I knew in my heart that he had been here not as a bad guy not as this flawed soul but he had been here to stir up some stuff so that we all could learn our lessons because he's got four kids we all that different stuff from him we all learned different stuff from him.   [00:28:32] He's got other stepchildren who learned from him as well and that is so right on.   [00:28:39] Here's the part that I can't connect the dots on. OK. As a person who has a community of people listening to them Where is the boundary so that people don't say well they're no bad on the other side I'm just going to go murder these bad people. Oh no. Whatever it might be you know. I don't I don't have that down yet.   [00:29:07] Karma is a bitch.   [00:29:10] Yeah.   [00:29:14] You will pay.   [00:29:17] So you know when you study this like you're talking about and this so fits Fred's lives of the soul and Michael Newton's work of what 7000 I think hypnosis sessions that he did to get this same message when you see recurring patterns.   [00:29:34] So it's like so many people who connect with the other side talk about this being the way that that things are. Again let's zoom up to the 10000 foot perspective of this is a soul growth process. So if you say well yeah there are no rules or judgments or anything on the other side. Well first of all there's gonna be hell to pay on this side. I don't know about you but I would not do well living in a 10 by 10 box for the rest of my life. This doesn't sound appealing to me at all. Not for 10 minutes much less for decades so you know there's there's that built in.   [00:30:14] Is this what I would really want to go do but if even if that didn't move you and you still had that that vile impulse Oh I got to show you something to let me show this.   [00:30:30] This works really well. I got a clue for the folks watching on video. Well we'll show you something here. This is something I've been working on. Nobody knows this. So I'm like.   [00:30:41] You're like the first I have I haven't even done this for my own podcast audience but we're going to let you know so because I mean you asked your journalistic skills are quite sharp so if we think about this from a soul growth perspective and we connect with what all is available when we do grow our soul it becomes such an incredible motivator to me to want to reach those higher levels of consciousness because there is so much magic up there there is so much wonder that we can't even imagine at those higher levels of consciousness that we don't get when we let our humanity get the best of us.   [00:31:32] You know.   [00:31:33] So what I was saying earlier and what you brought up like your dad's role in a sense was to stir stuff up for people so that they could grow.   [00:31:45] And we don't get that in our in our society today in our. I was going to say liberal or progressed you know our forward thinking society doesn't like those challenges doesn't make them that our society doesn't. It's not OK to be one who would stir up for others so that they could forgive. That doesn't resonate today. Right. We're not at that level of consciousness that you can know we like to make stories.   [00:32:14] We like to say oh well he must be really stupid because he lost his job or she must be this because this happened you know we want to apply a story to everything. He's a bad guy because he cheated. You know this story.   [00:32:30] It's all a story. Yeah I went through my transitional period I went through a program that a friend of mine said hey go just go to this it'll change your whole perspective on things that was called the Landmark Forum. And I did that weekend.   [00:32:43] I've done it once and it did.   [00:32:47] And one of the things that you take away from that program is how much we are enveloped in our stories. We make a story up out of everything.   [00:32:57] That's exactly right.   [00:32:59] So here's something that we're working on. This was a work in progress from one of the books that I did with Fred. And this is totally with his blessing. And we were corresponding on it yesterday. And he's like you've got to take this and run with it because this is this is good stuff so what the book was called low levels of energy. OK. So levels of energy by Fred Dodson and then the kind of the companion book that came before that about a decade prior was called power versus force by Dr. David our Hawkins and Dr. Hawkins used this as the basis of one of the largest clinical psychology practices in the country out of Long Island. He passed away in 2012 but left us with this incredible work that basically takes consciousness and puts it on a scale so both authors used the same scale Fred's treatment of the material is completely different Dr Hawkins is more scientific Fred is more practical applicable.   [00:34:01] But basically if you take all of our human emotions all of our human existence and put it on a scale from zero to 1000 let's say the numbers don't mean anything it just is the relativity if you go out and kill somebody that's probably a 20.   [00:34:17] It's down around the area of psychosis depression 50 fear one hundred anger 160 narcissism pride arrogance one ninety.   [00:34:28] Those are all low levels of consciousness so we've come up with this little system that's representing represented by these rings. So I've got four colors of rings. So if you take that all those low levels of consciousness and we'll just this is kind of a maroon color brown color and if you see that but that. So let's say that all of those are here right and then like daily life you know we we get the kids ready we take them to school we go to work we come back we help them with their homework we put them to bed we watch an hour of TV we go to we go to sleep that's that's just like we're just getting by.   [00:35:11] Right.   [00:35:11] Life works not bad not setting any records not you know creating anything not changing the paradigm of the culture but you know not bad we're getting by for those who can't see physically in the video he's got two rings and maroon ring and then he just added with that last statement a red herring on top of it. All right. So then we're going to put on top of that a golden colored ring. All right. So that's now we start to step outside of ourself and we start to put others first. Selfless service if you will we're moving up the scale the scale is is represented by these three ring stacked on top of each other that are different colors but we're moving up or getting higher. So we're growing and when you start to really step out of yourself when you put others first when you are full of joy when you're just happy when you're fun to be around when you give to others we Marjan and I were at a hotel up in Arkansas the other day and walking out there was this guy who was sweeping the floor in front of the door and one of those carpet pad things you know and he was just sweeping that and just getting and he'd go back the other way and somebody walk down the hall Oh thank you for staying at our hotel.   [00:36:30] This was at a Marriott. It was in his hotel I promise you he had known the darn thing right. But he was so proud. Oh thank you for being our guest we can't wait to see you back again. Have a nice day.   [00:36:42] That was that's this kind of that's that's the gold right. You know he's working twelve dollar an hour job up in Arkansas sweeping the floors and hauling the trash out and he's just serving other people. Beautiful. And then when so the final ring is is turquoise colored.   [00:37:01] Those are the pure levels of of unconditional love pure joy peace creativity.   [00:37:12] Think of Malala today is really representing this little girl that was shot in the head by the Taliban and lived. And her story is magnificent. Mother Teresa would have been in that we think of Gandhi you know so just those those areas where we really transcend our humanity because we're in such a different higher level different zone.   [00:37:38] So when you put all those together and you look at those colors that's the scale of consciousness.   [00:37:47] So when you're making that decision now remember we all have choice. This is the thing is at the end of the day nobody's making us do anything more than the visual. When you see those you know look say for the camera but if you're just listening on audio so you've got a maroon ring at the bottom a red ring a gold ring and a turquoise colored ring if you live out of that maroon colored ring you're going to get bad results.   [00:38:16] You're going to get bad results today and you're gonna get bad results on the other side you're going to have to come back and do it again. You want to do a do over.   [00:38:26] Now do you want to take two or three or five because you are stuck in that stubbornness or if you zoom up and you go wow you know and even if we again here for the folks that are not on camera let's just take the golden ring and the turquoise ring if you could live in that level of being loving giving serving helping.   [00:38:58] Not only are you in the paradox the cool paradox is that you feel better when you give out of yourself when you give it away.   [00:39:07] You get and that's built into the system.   [00:39:10] So it's like when we make that shift and then through our free will choice we say I am going to choose to serve somebody and we start to stack that up over decades of our life.   [00:39:29] Wow.   [00:39:31] I mean what you get back from that. So if you live that through five or six decades one of the cool things about being older there are very few. But one of the cool ones is you get the perspective. Wow you don't have as a younger person. You don't see what happened over those four four or five decades. But when you've lived through those four or five decades and you see compounding at work you realize you can compound interest and grow your bank account but you can also compound your karma if you will or you can compound your your energetic part of you and live that out over five or six decades and you have such a wealth of treasure at the end of that line that it's absolutely beautiful. And then you go on to much higher levels.   [00:40:25] There's so much more Julie there's so much more than we see now we could talk about this for so long I could talk about you I'd talk with you for hours.   [00:40:34] Oh there's so much that we don't see in our little boxes in our confined world that is below the tree level. And just when we get up there to these other realms there's so much and and that's my motivation. That's why I choose to do it what I do. Where's the boundary you ask. I don't think there is one. I mean if you break a law you're going to pay for it in our culture. There are some cultures where you can go do that and get away with it. Walk out scot free. Right. And you know so it's like comically you're not going to walk out scot free energetically you're not going to walk out scot free anywhere.   [00:41:13] Yeah.   [00:41:13] And that's what I tell my clients to because when I'm working and all of my sessions you know so many people and even mediums or psychics that I've heard on TV they'll say well on the other side there is no emotion and you don't hear or see people come through with emotion.   [00:41:28] And to me that's not true. One of the things that happens a lot is if somebody passed through suicide they will come through and I will be bawling hysterically in a session because that's the energy that they have on the other side. They're bawling hysterically. They're bringing that emotion through. And what they show me is that you know people who pass that way and there is no bad place on the other side. There's nothing like that. But we do have to go through a life review. On the other side. And that isn't sitting in a movie theater watching our lives on this big screen what it is is actually being in a simulation where we go through where we intentionally hurt somebody else and stepping into the body stepping into the mind of the heart of the other person and feeling our actions and how it hurt that other person which is actually where I think Catholics get the idea of purgatory because it is kind of this middle ground between us that happened but it doesn't take that long for most people to kind of go through. But we do get a much greater understanding it does help us clearer energy before we go through on the other side.   [00:42:49] Have you communicated with people who have either been in the midst of that process or just completed it like and can come back. Well that that you are communicating with like they had just been through that review or they were in that review I'd love to know what they say while they're in the process of that review of the review.   [00:43:10] It says if they take on and they become that other person because they physically have to step fully into that person and forget themselves to be that person in order to feel the way that their own actions in this lifetime hurt that person.   [00:43:31] So see if we're going to do that anyway. Yeah. Why not just do it today. Why not do it right. Right. Right. And I'm holding up the golden ring.   [00:43:42] Why not just choose to go ahead and do it today.   [00:43:45] I took Madonna's Madonna and I are partners but but not married and I took her son to school today just to be golden ring. Just. It's something I normally don't do but. And he's you know teenager whatnot. But I just said Hey it's raining. Would you like a ride you know. Yeah. It's stuff like that.   [00:44:07] It's that connecting with just to be there with somebody else to do something that's not serving you.   [00:44:15] Right. Oh I love that because you know it's so often people will say well what if I don't feel this through meditation or what if I don't feel that they think that they're not good they get to that place that golden ring. Right. But that's not what it's about. It's just about starting where you're at. And everybody has something that they can do from a self selfless point of view.   [00:44:39] So start there. Start with gratitude because everyone can do this every single soul that is here on Earth right now can do this.   [00:44:47] This working on this. We're putting a seminar together on this. Just started writing a book on it. Fred's involved consulted early with this.   [00:44:57] And yeah but the book's going to have your title isn't it. It is your name. Yeah. Is this the first one. I second the second.   [00:45:06] Ok. What was the name of your first book. Filibusters. OK. OK. Because there's more to come. That was coming through when I was praying this morning. They were saying talk about his book.   [00:45:16] Wow. Yeah. Yeah. You're not done here. Tom you've got a lot of stuff coming ahead.   [00:45:23] Yes you're good. You and I are going to talk. All right. All right Kyra. We're going to talk to you if you talk. No.   [00:45:36] That's awesome. And that I told you that I that we communicated about this yesterday. That was the communication was him handing the baton saying no you need to do this full out this one.   [00:45:48] Wow. Wow. Well they are so proud of you. Yeah. And I got to tell you too your mom and your dad are stepping forward and who is the younger boy that's on the other side.   [00:46:04] Not.   [00:46:08] Not from mom and dad. But there was a miscarriage.   [00:46:11] Yeah. Yeah.   [00:46:12] And that's. And and that soul has shown up several times by the way.   [00:46:16] Ok. As male. No. OK. First time I've heard male OK. Because they're bringing him forward and your mom. I don't know if there was a special bond between you and mom or you were kind of like.   [00:46:32] Because she comes through with tears in her eyes just saying how proud she is of you and just how how much you've grown.   [00:46:43] And she just she's making me feel it in my heart. Yeah well yeah and dad too.   [00:46:54] But she comes through with kind of some tears in her eyes so interesting because mom was the source of a lot of my challenge. She was my little soul that came here to rub me.   [00:47:09] Yes. Gave me lots of opportunities that I missed a lot of them.   [00:47:17] She says she did a good job.   [00:47:19] It seems that great job she played her role well thanks Mom. You were perfect. Yeah. Dad my Dad was an angel. I mean if you were to see him you'd see wings on his back. He was just an amazing amazing soul. And my mom was the source of my challenges. And you know this is so funny my brother and I are less than two years apart and he perceived that environment. He he knew of the challenges. He was very aware of the challenges not to say that it didn't affect him too but he responded to her differently.   [00:47:52] See I responded out of my paradigm what I brought in. He responded out of his paradigm. So here we were not ten feet apart. Growing up and and yet had these two different perspectives and outcomes and how it affected our souls differently and everybody has that story right. Everybody has that story but that's where we are so unique and so different. And yeah that mom would say that I I was in the room after she passed and now or when she passed and knowing what I know now of studying this material and being very comfortable with her soul transitioning was able to talk to her my brother and I in fact and his wife. We were the three together with her and were letting her know that it was OK and we would be OK and we would take the mantle and run with it from here and that she could let go and didn't need to hang on and I mean it was just hours before she left after that but but they left the room and knowing that her soul was probably still there. Knowing that I was in the room by myself and I sat down with her and had a conversation that I know she heard me and it was the conversation that I could never have with her here and it was kind of a clearing and it was a letting her soul know that it was OK I get it I get what happened here and be free.   [00:49:18] Godspeed and I love you.   [00:49:20] Yeah forgiveness really treat your heart right but you're released. We're good we're good here. Yeah yeah yeah. Beautiful that's beautiful beautiful beautiful. You know on Instagram the other day one of I just somebody popped down and they asked a question and I think it would be a good question. I've got my own kind of idea and how I'd respond but I just want to see what you think about this.   [00:49:46] So she said you know we have our subconscious. We have people like medium psychics intuitive Angel readers. How do you know that it to you hearing from the other side you hearing from angels or maybe like your girlfriend. How does she say that she knows them and just not our subconscious. These experiences that we had that we're just recalling.   [00:50:15] Got it. Got it. That's a great question and so many people also ask how do I know that it's intuition and not just my monkey mind. Right. You can bring it down to the earthly plane like even if we're not connecting with somebody on the other side. How do I know that this isn't just my Chatterbox up there going nuts that I really am hearing from divine source internally as intuition. I think it kind of comes from the same same type of answer to this for me.   [00:50:42] Now I know for Mirjana It would be that she would say very distinct feeling that she gets when these communications are coming it's like like no other. She has had it all of her life. So this is not anything new or unique for her so she knows that voice. Yep. So just on that. What is that. How is it for you.   [00:51:09] You know I've had several different experiences throughout my life. I didn't just hear my dad but in my early twenties. I had an experience that I've talked about with my listeners before where I heard I was actually out with this woman that I just randomly met on a business trip in Seattle. I met her on the street and spent the entire day with her. And at the middle of like talking after seven hours she just automatically went in to speaking in tongue.   [00:51:42] Wow. And she I remember thinking what language is this because this is not a language that I've heard on Earth before.   [00:51:52] This is not South Chicago I'm listening to hear it no no.   [00:51:57] And then I remember this analogy and it almost did feel like like a fog that you could see.   [00:52:06] And I remember hearing now this was at a very hard point in my life where my heart was just more heavy than it had ever been before. And I remember hearing it's okay you're gonna be okay. I'm here with you I love you I'm taking care of you everything's gonna be OK.   [00:52:28] And it just kept repeating and I remember knowing that that was an angelic that there were angels there that that was the Holy Spirit and that energy is something that when then I started hearing from my dad later on started working with different Reiki masters different spiritual teachers learning how to develop my spiritual get more. You're right. It's the energy of it. I know when I'm connected to it I know when I'm connected to the other side. And since I was the little girl one of my earliest memories is my dad telling me listen to your heart listen to your heart there's a little Julie there's a little whisper inside your heart and it's gonna talk to you and you have to listen to that whisper no matter what your mind says. And so I remember doing that since I was a little girl while always listening to that little whisper.   [00:53:26] And so I've trained myself since that time to understand what's my mind what's my heart.   [00:53:32] And that the thoughts the messages that come through from the other side they don't come through our ego mind. They come through the heart gut intuition.   [00:53:43] That's cool.   [00:53:44] That's beautiful yeah yeah.   [00:53:47] I had a very interesting experience to kind of flex my intuitive muscles. I was in Colorado for the last three years and there was a hiking trail that went up the side of a mountain literally right across the street from where I was staying and I went up there having done five or six or seven years of this work but still didn't have that touch with that voice and actually it started the first funny story on this is I went up there is a flat lander and started skiing and skiing kind of snuck up on me and I just love snow skiing. Now I think it's phenomenal. I just love it. But I you know I had I didn't have a system I would typically go every now and then would go skiing and hadn't been on a ski trip for quite a while and now I'm living in a ski town.   [00:54:44] So I was going up the chair one Sunday and this was really clear so I think this kind of is the same type of thing I was going to take a picture with my phone. So I had it in a pocket inside my jacket. So I reached to unzip the jacket pulled it down about a foot and I heard as I reached my hand and I heard this really clear don't and I was like Oh come on I'll hold on tight you know I'll I'll grip it I'll be careful.   [00:55:16] So I I pulled my glove I pulled my glove off by sticking it under my left arm. So here's my. And   [00:55:23] I reached in with my right hand got my phone took my picture slid it back in the jacket zipped it up so see it's all good and then I went to put my glove back on it now and oh so that was like oh wow I need to know more about this I need to learn more of how this works.   [00:55:47] So on the hiking trail I started to get in touch with that voice and it was always usually met with arguing from the monkey mind from the ego self.   [00:55:58] Yeah. So what I would do is pick a point on the hiking trail of like that tree up there.   [00:56:05] Okay. Let's just walk up to that tree where ego self mind would you be willing to just be quiet long enough we'll go up there and see what comes through I wouldn't take five steps. Run run run run run run run run run. Right here come back and I'd stop and I'd say wait a minute we had an agreement. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah yeah. Okay. All right. That tree just that tree. Okay. And then that tree turned into you know around that corner up there and then that turned into farther down the trail and then that turned into literally I could step on that hiking trail and the ego mind would go quiet and couldn't wait to hear from that still small voice. Yeah. And we'd go on for a long time and then sometimes it would want to question you know it's like Okay throw me a question water put about this or that should I write a book. Well you know and then and then.   [00:56:59] But then that voice would kick in and and I think it comes with an assurance and a piece and a flow you know just a you know that that's what's as you said well deep inside that little small voice problem is we always want to counter it with our monkey mind who is the alpha dog on the block. It's the one that wants to be in control. Yes. So we. Right. Right right right.   [00:57:27] And what I did again a visual here how can we create the audio part of this.   [00:57:34] So like if you like put your put your hand up like cup your hand up and like like you're gonna swat a fly that's below you on the desk OK you've got your hand you're ready. The fly is going to swing by. Boom you're gonna whack it right.   [00:57:50] So that's our ego mind and down here now be the little fly on the desk you know now down here is that little still small voice and it just whispers and it's really soft.   [00:58:06] And you know another point on that Julie is we have to be in quiet environments I think to hear it more and our world today. Sir dad on our world today is so full of noises everywhere. There's a television on and every waiting room and restaurant and airport and everywhere you go. And we can't be quiet.   [00:58:28] So once you get quiet you'll hear that voice more but what happens then is the hand that you've got cocked up here and ready to go whack it hits the.   [00:58:38] It knocks it back down and into its place. Because I'm the boss.   [00:58:44] So what I did is I just shifted roles now to where the little still small voice is the hand up above not ready to squash anything but where I brought that monkey mind into submission to where.   [00:59:01] Now when that still small voice speaks the role of the monkey mind is all okay.   [00:59:09] How do I do that.   [00:59:11] So when the little voice says write a book about the four rings then it's not argue we're not arguing there's no point counterpoint.   [00:59:20] We're not contradicting it. It's okay. Well I better watch program am I going to write it in word or Scrivener or you know it's well what's the first chapter going to be. How's the structure going to be the outline and you know that's where the arms start taking the baby steps that lead to the bigger steps that lead to the whole thing.   [00:59:38] You take start taking the actions and then along the way you stop and you listen well maybe that's not the right direction for this chapter. Oh what is. Oh okay. Got it. Off we go.   [00:59:49] Yeah.   [00:59:51] Yeah. It's a wonderful way to live.   [00:59:53] It is a wonderful way to live and see beautiful.   [00:59:58] You know you are asking to again I mean you have to make the shift up to these higher planes of being back to our little rings you have to get up to the golden turquoise ring because when you live from that perspective then you're just waiting for the next piece of instruction. Oh Fred had a great analogy story in a couple of his books and it's a really easy simple story but it's just like think about our life as a river.   [01:00:26] There's a point where we get in and there's a point when we get out and we're in a boat and we're given an oar.   [01:00:32] There's our choice and we float down the river and as he says so many times we want to paddle upstream.   [01:00:43] Or we want to drag the boat over to the bank and get out because there's a better River over on the other side. Right.   [01:00:49] If we could just get over there that's the river and I realized when I was narrating that story I just had to stop because it was like man that's how I lived my whole life. Yeah.   [01:01:02] Was paddling upstream all the time or cross currents are always fighting the flow. But when we just used the ore to gently bump us along the way and we just get out in the middle of the river and start flowing down the river. Oh there's a rock up there. Okay let's just move to the left a little bit.   [01:01:21] Got it.   [01:01:23] There's a nice flat spot of the river. Let's go over there and have a nice picnic lunch and just take a break.   [01:01:30] Got some rapids coming OK. We're gonna have some fun here right.   [01:01:33] Well let's go shoot the rapids.   [01:01:36] Life picks up it slows down. We have challenges in the way. Maybe there's an alligator in the river. We have to go around him. You don't have to go right toward him. Paddle over there and ask him how he's doing. You don't have to go forth with him right. Just paddle around. So it's a it's a beautiful analogy of how we just get into the flow and when you get into the flow. Life will take you where you're supposed to be just like the river will take you down to the to the place where you're going to get out.   [01:02:09] Life will get you there and it will all be good and well and fine I was just texting my mom because she keeps sending these texts and I keep hearing these things in the background. She she'll go through and she'll send ten at one time say her mom or my mom. Be sure you're talking to the right Mom. Yes totally. Oh my goodness. Thomas this was just the best. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. And I always asked my guests who do you think I should interview next on this podcast or who do you know who I should interview.   [01:02:50] Fred Dodson. OK my mentor. Absolutely fantastic. Oh.   [01:02:56] Eyes up and you know what time Thomas for people who want to connect with you online learn more about you. Where can they find you. You on your Web site and social media.   [01:03:06] Well thank you for that. So on Facebook we have a little podcast listeners group it's called subconscious mind mastery podcast listeners on Facebook and you can ask to join that group and we put up episode information and some behind the scenes cool stuff and that kind of thing. So there's that. And then just hop over to the podcast at subconscious mind mastery on iTunes and Spotify and Stitcher and all those good places where you can listen and my email is Thomas at subconscious mind mastering dot.com.   [01:03:39] Perfect. Well thank you again so much for being a guest on our show today.   [01:03:43] We are very appreciative that you would do this for us.   [01:03:46] Jill you are amazing and I love what you're doing. Thank you   [01:04:02] My dear friends. You don't know what an incredible huge huge huge blessing it is to this podcast when you write a glowing positive review for us. It truly helps us get the best experts on the show. I know this might sound a little complex but if you send me an email after you post a glowing positive review here I will put your name into a monthly drawing to win a free 30 minute Angel message session with me and it may just be broadcast on this show at a later date. Your name will be kept in the drawing every month until you win when you email me. Don't forget to include your name contact information and positive review. I hope you win   [01:04:45] Tune in for a new episode next week where I'll share tools and guidance that can help you fall in love with your life and start living it from a place of peace bliss and ease.   [01:04:56] Thank you so much for listening to the angels and awakening podcast. Until next time know in your heart just how deeply you're loved on the other side and open up your heart to all of the random unexpected blessings that your angels and your spirit team are trying to bring into your life right now.   [01:05:19] Disclaimer this podcast provides general information and discussion about energy healing spiritual topics and related subjects the conversations and other content provided in this podcast and in any linked materials are not intended and should not be construed as medical psychological and or professional advice. If the listener or any other person has a medical concern he or she should consult with an appropriately licensed physician or other health care professional. Never make any medical or health related decision based in whole or even in part on anything contained in the angels in awakening podcast or in any of our linked materials. You should not rely on any information contained in this podcast and related materials and making medical health related or other decisions. You should consult a licensed physician or appropriately credentialed health care worker in your community in all matters relating to your health. If you think you may have a medical emergency call your doctor or nine one one immediately. Again Angel messages energy healing and the information you receive here does not constitute legal psychological medical business relationship or financial advice. Do not take any of the advice given and any angels in awakening podcasts or sessions in lieu of medical psychological legal financial or general professional advice. Please note angels in awakening is a podcast produced by Chicago energy healing a company with locations in Wheaton, Illinois and Naperville, Illinois.     KEY WORDS: God, Universe, Source, Spirit, Guardian Angel, Angel, Angel Message, Angel Messages, Angel Reader, Angel Readers, Angel Whisper, Angels, Anxiety, Archangel, Archangels, Arch Angel, Archangel Gabriel, Archangel Michael, Archangel Raphael, Ask Angels, Attraction, Law of Attraction, The Secret, Oprah, Super Soul Sunday, Soul Sunday, Aura, Aura Field, Author, Awakening, Being, Bliss, Bible, Bible Verse, Bliss and Grit, Buddhism, Catholic, Chakra, Chalene, the Chalene Show, Realitv, Change Your Life, Chicago, Naperville, Wheaton, Chicagoland, Christian, Christianity, Church, Pastor, Preacher, Priest, Co Create, cocreate, Consciousness, Spirit Guide, counselor, therapist, Dax Shepard, Death, Depression, Died, Grief, Divine, Doctor, Dream, Angel Therapy, Gabrielle Bernstein, Ego, Empath, Energy, Energy Healing, Enlightened, Zen, Enlightenment, Enneagram, Fabulous, Faith Hunter, Family, Feelings, Goal Digger, Jenna Kutcher, Ancient wisdom, Brandon Beachum, girl boss, badass, life coach, sivana, good, gratitude, great, school of greatness, greatness, the school of greatness, lewis howes, the Charlene show, rise podcast, Rachel Hollis, Tony Robbins, the Tony Robbins Podcast, guardian angels, guides, happy, happier, happiness, Hay House, summit, hayhouse, healed, healing, health, heart, heart math, heaven, help, high vibration, higher self, highest self, holy, I AM, illness, inner peace, inspiration, intention, intuitive, jewish, joy, Julia Treat, Julie Jancius, learn, lesson, light worker, Louise Hay, Love, Marriage, Magical, Manifest, Manifesting, Marie Kondo, Master Class, Meditate, Meditation, Medium, Mediumship, the Long Island Medium, the Hollywood Medium, Message, Metaphysics, ACIM, A Course In Miracles, Method, Mindful, Mindfulness, Miracles, Mom, Motherhood, Naturopath, New Age, Passed Away, Past Lives, Peace, Positive, Power, Pray, Prayer, Prosperity, Psychic, Psychic Medium, Psychology, Purpose, Quantum Physics, Life Purpose, Ray of Light, Reiki, Relax, Religion, Robcast, Sadness, Depression, Sahara Rose, School, Science, Shaman Durek, Shift, Sleep, Soul, Source, Spirit, Spirit Team, Spiritual, Spiritual Awakening, Spiritual Gifts, Spirituality, Stress, Synchronicity, Tara Williams, Tarot, Teacher, Thinking, Thoughts, Transcended State, Transcendence, Universe, Vibration, Vortex, Wellness, Worry, Worship, Yoga, Zen, Afterlife. 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This is how I started getting people to ASK if they could join my team...   THROWBACK TO MY FIRST MLM PRODUCT   I create products on the internet that attract people to me.   I like to walk a lot of people through how I do that.   The people who are attracted to that product, that's who I'll start approaching. I'll send them auto scripts and a lot of auto recruiting things to try and bring them into my down line.   The first product that I ever created was super overcomplicated. It was so over the top.   You don't need to go crazy. I want to teach you how you can pull this stuff off for yourself. Automate your leads on the internet and gets people to you. People who are actually worth being in your downline.   If you have a funnel that's like "Hey, join my down-line. Apply to join my down-line." That literally results in somebody joining your down-line. That is the endgame.   That's why you produce content, that's part of the attraction that gets people to you. People who are interested in getting content like that, they're super interested. They're not normal MLM-er's.   A normal MLM-er does not seek education or how to better themselves.   Isn't that interesting? Even though it is a self-improvement industry…   The ones that are, I want to find them. I want to pull them out from those who aren't. I want to qualify them. For me, I try to qualify them based on their understanding of marketing.   If they don't understand, that's fine too. I'll train them. I'm trying to grab those people as well.   You have to figure out WHO you really want. Do you want people who are brand-brand-brand-brand-new? Who have never done anything in business ever or ever made a dollar on their own? It’s fine if you do want that. Get clarity and figure out how to talk to that person.   ATTRACT PEOPLE WHO ARE SELF-SELECTED   You want to get people to say, "You know what? I really like Lisa Anne's content. What is she in?" That's why you publish.   When people ask me, “How does a webinar producing content for the funnel equal someone in the down-line?" Because that's how you're actually closing them. The end-goal is to get someone in your down-line, setting up funnels to sell product as well.   You could have FREE + SHIPPING funnels and maybe no one’s inquiring about your MLM. That's totally fine and that's exactly what you're doing. You're going to make cash regardless if they join your down-line or buy your products. That's what's so cool about it.   You're starting to attract people into your world. Most people don't say yes to something the first time they hear about it. Bit it gets them in your world and they start to consume the content that you're producing.   Producing content gives you things to talk about other than your MLM product when you start talking with them. You’re making a bit of cash which means you can spend ad money and get in front of even more people.   That’s a paid-prospecting funnel. It allows you to speak louder and faster than anyone else in your up-line or down-lin. You get a lot of eyeballs on you really fast.   If you're like "Hey, I didn't want to go check out their MLM” that's fine. You still paid that person money. They still got to introduce themselves to you. And that's the whole point! To get people to self-select.   Get people in, and then afterwards you can follow up with them and begin to close them.   PRODUCTS ON THE INTERNET   How can you make your product on the internet stand out? There might be a lot of people selling your MLM product on the internet.   The MLM product and the funnel are NOT different. I'm just taking my MLM product and putting it in funnels. Funnels sell things better than someone face-to-face.   When you sell face-to-face you’ll change the script every time you talk. You’re speaking to a different client avatar every single time.   We're taking elements of your MLM business and putting some of the products on the internet through sales funnels. They're not two separate businesses. We're just taking your business on the internet.   How does content for free funnels, podcasts and free plus shipping equal people coming into my down-line?   Four years ago when I started doing this, I wasn't teaching yet, I was just doing it. I created this course and I put it on YouTube just for fun. The weirdest thing started happening.   I was in college at the time and I was trying to recruit people for my MLM and I created this course. Exactly what a lot of you guys are doing now.   I made it FREE and I put it on YouTube and I put links to join my MLM in the description. The result of it was FLOORING.   I could not believe how many people were coming to me and asking to join whatever I was in.   THE POWER OF SELF-SELECTED   The more I talk about it, the more I share what I'm doing, the more people randomly asked to join me.   At the beginning of the year I was getting one to two applications per day.   NOW   I get anywhere from two to four people per day, I've never met, asking to join my downline.   I've never pitched them. They’re complete strangers who have been through my content and self-selected.   Who said to themselves, "Self, you know what, that Steve Larson guy's got giant eyeballs but that's okay, let's see what he's about. Whatever he's doing, it must be awesome. Okay, let me ask to join his down-line"   IT’S NUTS!   When I first started doing this, it was completely by accident. It flipped the whole game. Then I started doing it on purpose and more people started asking to join me. Two to three a week and then four to five a week, and then it was one person EVERY DAY.   What was happening was, I was breaking and I was rebuilding their beliefs about what it took to be successful in MLM. It was changing the way they were looking at it.   I didn't have to close them. They were closing me on why I should accept them. It changed everything.   If you’ve ever heard of Simon Chan, he’s doing the exact same thing. He puts content out, people start to see him as an authority.   Start putting things out there or crowd create little pieces of content that attract people to you. Get people to you who are going to be self-selected.   THE MLM PRODUCT END GAME   Let's say I spend 30 minutes pitching somebody on my MLM. That time is lost forever. That's why I don't like doing it.   I'm not saying not to, but I don't.   That time is lost to me forever. Instead, I could spend 30 minutes recording an episode, or making a blog post, or putting content out there. That's there for the rest of my life, and my kids lifes.   I put little call to action things on the bottom, "Hey go over here and get your free XYZ." BAM. They're on my list.   Some people reach out and I'm like "Hey, if you want you can apply to join my down-line and we'll see if you're a good fit. See if I'm a good fit for you, if you're a good fit for me. If so we've got this sweet offer that no other MLM has got." That's how they tie together.   When you add in something like a paid prospecting funnel, now you're getting cash to prospect. You don't take profit from it. Go and I dump that right back into ads  to increase your speed.   Money is the speed. I can talk to more people than everyone in my up-line and down-line, and eventually, everyone in the entire MLM as a whole.   They're not going to do things like ads. They're not. I don't drive ads for the MLM, that's not kosher on Facebook. I drive ads for the paid prospecting products. I can do that, it's my own thing.   That gets them in the world. Slowly, they start to warm up to me and they're like "Who's this kid?"   I'm teaching you guys to do the exact same thing!   TARGETED SELLING PRODUCTS ON THE INTERNET     For me, my target audience is current people in MLM that are unhappy and looking to switch.  You could choose somebody else, though.   I don't want people to come in and ask dumb questions like "Is this a pyramid scheme?"   I target people who are in MLM's that are unhappy because their up-lines don't know how to teach them.   Not everyone has huge, existing lists to say "Join my MLM" and they're this instant success. A lot of big guys in MLM are like that. They had a huge following already, they go into an MLM, they get a massive list, they say "Hey I'm in this thing, first come, first served.” And they have instant success.   What do people do who don't have a huge list? What do all the people do who don't have massive leverage over an audience do? That's exactly who I cater to.   If your personal end goal is not to join my MLM, that's 100% totally fine. I don't care. Stay in yours.   My endgame with Secret MLM Hacks is to change the entire MLM industry. I'm here to rock the boat, and I'm here to disrupt the bellies. The belly-to-belly people who are afraid of technology. The old-school MLM-er's that say "Don't use the internet."   They're afraid of it because they don't know how to use it. They don't know how to use it in a way that it's still compliant. You don't have to disrupt Facebook, get banned and stuff like that.   THAT’S MY END-GAME.   I left Clickfunnels and my amazing, plushy job with Russell Brunson to disrupt MLM. Secret MLM Hacks is about you learning how to do it in your own MLM. MLM PRODUCT FUNNELS   Let’s get one thing straight. Funnels aren't businesses. A funnel is not a business.   A funnel is a way to sell people. If you've ever captured money from anyone ever, I'm not saying even on the internet, I mean face-to face. That was a funnel.   A funnel is merely an offer and a sales message. I'm just taking that, and I'm putting it on the internet. That's it.   The massive growth comes, frankly, when someone actually ponies up the ability to just freaking publish.

"Nah bae, thats just my brother" "Hey I'm going out with my sis" "We just friends, chill she always liking my pics" Have you heard any of these before? Which ones do you believe? Can you have sex and leave it at sex? Whats your definition of platonic friendship? Keiz Ali & Lola Doll step back in for episode 2 to break it down. Tune into now and learn how to co-exist with your ex and the opposite sex --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/aliandfriends/support

What marketing strategies is HubSpot's CMO using to drive the company's explosive growth?   This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, HubSpot Chief Marketing Officer Kipp Bodnar is pulling back the curtain on the company's marketing and sharing the details of four successful marketing experiments that have been game changers for the company in 2018.  Kipp covered this in his presentation at IMPACT Live 2018 and it was so fascinating, I asked him to come on the podcast so we could dig a bit deeper. Some highlights from our discussion include: HubSpot's marketing strategy for 2018 was focused on reducing friction and making it easier for customers to learn about, interact with, and engage with the company. By revamping their lead nurturing workflows for new contacts, HubSpot was able to go to a 67% open rate from a 37% open rate, and from a 17% click-through rate on the previous version of its lead nurturing workflow to a 61% click-through rate. By syndicating content that relates to high traffic, competitive keywords and republishing it on third party sites, HubSpot dramatically increased page authority for that content and as a result, traffic grew considerably (up to 16,000% for one article!). Building on the success of its content syndication program, HubSpot is now working on getting accepted as a publisher in Google News in order to experiment with the impact that exposure in news aggregation sites will have on traffic. A new strategy to connect with its audience via Facebook Messenger is also paying off, with prospects converting on a Messenger-based quiz. The company is in the early stages of a new play to cover more breaking news and has added a full time writer to work exclusively on this. In 2019, Kipp foresees HubSpot devoting more resources to video and to marketing via Instagram. Listen to the podcast to learn more about the marketing experiments HubSpot conducted and the results that they generated. Transcript Kathleen Booth (Host):Welcome back to the Inbound Success Podcast. I'm Kathleen Booth, and I'm your host; and today my guest is Kipp Bodnar, who is the CMO of HubSpot. Welcome Kipp. Kipp Bodnar (Guest): Hey, thanks for having me Kathleen, I really appreciate it. Kipp and Kathleen recording this episode Kathleen: I'm really excited to have you here. I had the opportunity to hear you speak at IMPACT Live in August. Click here to watch the video recording of Kipp's IMPACT Live talk. Kathleen: I've heard you speak before at INBOUND and so I'm personally very excited to get to pick your brain a little bit on some of the things you're doing at HubSpot. Before we dive into that, can you talk a little bit about yourself and just about HubSpot. I'm pretty sure most of my listeners know what HubSpot is, but just in case there's that random person out there who's never heard of it, maybe you could give us the two-minute version. About HubSpot Kipp: Sure, yeah. Well thanks for having me and to the audience thanks for taking a few minutes to listen. So HubSpot...we build technology for growing businesses and we started as a marketing and marketing automation tool, but really now we're a CRM with tools for marketers, sales people, and customer service folks. Whether you need to store your contacts, manage your pipeline, automate your marketing we've got the tools for you to do that. I personally have been here at HubSpot for almost nine years now. It's been a fun journey. We've got an awesome global team growing and an amazing network of agency partners, integration partners that really extend HubSpot's platform with their own application. It's a really awesome system we have here and I'm excited to talk a little about it today. Kathleen: Yeah, it's amazing to me how much the company has changed since you joined, I mean I haven't known of HubSpot for even as long as you were around. I think when I had my own agency we became partners, it was 2011. Kipp: Yes. Kathleen: And even just in that time it's unbelievable what's happened, so I can't imagine as someone who joined what was it? Would it have been 2007? Kipp: No I joined the end of 2009, so not- Kathleen: 2009, so- Kipp: - too soon before, about a year or so before you started coming through my office. But yeah, the company's been around since 2006. Kathleen: Yeah, unbelievable amount of change in that time. Kipp: Glad you remember and reflect on it. Kathleen: I feel like we could do a whole other podcast on just that. But we won't so we'll save that one for another time, and for this time, you know, one of the reasons as I said I was really excited to talk to you was that I think a lot of us in the marketing world have heard HubSpot's story of growth. It's incredibly impressive, but it also - to the average marketer or to the small or medium-sized business owner - it can kind of seem unattainable or unrelatable because the growth is so dramatic. What I appreciated so much about what you discussed at IMPACT Live was you pulled back the curtain on HubSpot's marketing and rather than try and give us the secret to success, you gave us a couple of very discrete, actionable, specific things that HubSpot has done in the past year, that have really made an impact in terms of the results that you're seeing in your marketing. It seems to me that all of those were very doable and attainable by the average company and so I would love to spend today breaking that down and talking about that for listeners. Kipp: Let's do it. HubSpot's Marketing Goals Kathleen: Alright. So maybe you could start by just talking about what your goals for the year were, 'cause I know when you started talking at IMPACT Live a lot of these changes that you put in place had to do with really achieving the objectives you set out as far as HubSpot's marketing. Kipp: Yeah, this year we wanted to build off of the momentum we've had and we wanted to really solve for our prospects and our customers, which has kind of always been our core DNA. But when we thought about this, like man we've got this awesome flywheel, we've got a business that's really going up but there's a lot of friction in it, and how do we reduce that friction and make it easier to learn about us, interact with us, engage with us? And so we really wanted to drive awareness with HubSpot and how we think about getting people to adopt our free products, which I think are a really great way to engage with us. We wanted to make it easier for our customers to be advocates for us. We believe that word of mouth is one of our best marketing channels, and so we wanted to really rethink how we thought about customer marketing and communicating to our customers, and how we enabled them to tell a better story. We wanted to make shopping with us and buying with us easy, friction-free, on our own prospects' time schedule and how they wanted to interact with us. And so that involved telling better stories, educating them, but also doubling down on things like automation and chat and different strategies like that. Kathleen: Yeah, and all of those I think are goals that any business that is at all down the path of pursuing an inbound marketing strategy probably share. I know for myself, we would love to reduce friction and solve for the customer and make it easier for our prospects to engage with us, so how'd you do it? I know you ran a bunch of tests, and there were some that worked and worked particularly well. 1. Revamping HubSpot's Lead Nurturing Strategy Kipp: Yeah, so there's a ... We'll talk about one of the things I shared at IMPACT Live which is really about how we improved our automation and nurturing. Once we were able to bring somebody into our community I would really take them to the next level and help them understand our products, address their pain in the right way, and really we've been, as a company that's been in the marketing automation system, we've been doing automation for a long time and we continue to try to iterate on it over and over again. Like any marketing tactic or strategy I feel like you always, the first iteration is always just full of assumptions, right? It's the marketer trying to guess and making a bunch of assumptions as- Kathleen: Right, as people like to sound fancy and scientific they say, "It was my heuristic analysis." Kipp: I'm not that fancy at terms. Kathleen: That's just a way of sounding really smart when you're saying, "I made a bunch of assumptions." Kipp: Yeah, and so that was basically like our automation, two to three years ago, that's kinda what it was like, right? We'd assume based on what the topic that person downloaded that they wanted more stuff on that topic, right? And we wanna try to keep giving them more of what they wanted and it worked okay, like we had a 30% open rate on that automation, about 14% click-through rate. It was respectable. Nothing to be frustrated about. Kipp: Then we were like, "Oh well it's good that they want that stuff, but actually they're looking for this information 'cause they have this bigger holistic set of problems, right?" They either need to get more traffic to their website, they need to get more leads for their business, they need to turn those leads into customers at a high rate. There's kind of a refined subset of problems that all these folks have, and so what if we do our best job to kind of segment those people based on those areas of focus and kind of what their core marketing challenge was? Kathleen: Yeah, I seem to recall you gave an example in your presentation of somebody would download a social media playbook and at first on the surface it would appear that their problem was they wanted to learn how to do social media better, but really that was the symptom of a larger challenge that they were facing, so I thought that was interesting. Kipp: Yeah, and so we looked at that and we said, "Okay, well let's then do this different point of segmentations, instead of giving them a bunch of social media content, let's give them content around how they can get more leads to their website," for example. And that improved our performance. We went from a 30% open rate to a 37% open rate. We went from a 14% click-through rate to a 17% click-through rate. It's an improvement I think a lot of people would be happy with. But then we really did something pretty obvious that we should've done two years earlier, which is we asked people ... We basically made a "pick your own adventure," choose what you really need to know about right now. And so if you, basically if you downloaded that same social media ebook for example, you get that first kind of welcome email after that was, "Well what challenge are you trying to tackle? Do you need more leads? Do you need to grow your revenue? Do you need to manage your sales pipeline? Or do you need to do all of these things?" But some people write. Some people it's, "Hey I'm just getting started, I need to make all these things happen," and based on which one you picked, we had a really customized set of followup content that really aligned really tightly with that. And the response rate on that was way better than we could've ever imagined. We went to a 67% open rate from a 37% open rate, and we went from a 17% click-through rate on the previous version to a 61% click-through rate- Kathleen: Wow! Kipp: ... on the newer version, which is a massive, massive improvement. Kathleen: That's amazing. Kipp: It's awesome, and our team did an incredible job on that, and I think it came back to, "Well when you finally get segmentation and the value you need delivered for your perspective customer, and you marry that with good content, good information, you can really drive remarkable results. Kathleen: Yeah, what's so interesting about that change for me is that it kind of mirrors what you're taught as a salesperson. I spent some time on IMPACT Sales Team, and before I came here I was an agency owner. I kind of was my main salesperson and you're always taught in sales, if somebody comes to you for example and says, "I need help with social media," the best salespeople don't just say, "Well great, how can we help you?" Or "Here's how we can help you." They say, "Well why do you need help with social media. What are you really trying to achieve with that?" So you kind of peel back the layers of the onion and figure out, you know, don't let the customer self-diagnose necessarily. Figure out what they're real motivation is and I like the way you guys went with the pick your own adventure. I mean the customer is still self-diagnosing to a certain extent. Kipp: Totally. Kathleen: But you're taking it to a deeper level by asking them really, why? Why are you here? What's behind it? So that tracks very nicely with how I think the buying journey happens. In my head when you said that you went from a 30-something percent up in rate to a 60, or whatever the increase was, I felt like it was you doubled everything, all I could picture was the marketing team popping a bottle of champagne that day 'cause that is such a huge increase. Kipp: Yeah. No, I mean that's the biggest thing, like, for anybody, when you have big milestones you've gotta celebrate them, right? Kathleen: Yeah. Kipp: So we do all kinds of fun things. Sometimes you'd have a bottle of champagne, sure, sometimes you get a bunch of cupcakes, sometimes it's like a big joke that's a symbol of the progress. Kathleen: Right. Kipp: Whatever it is, celebrating those milestones are super important. Kathleen: Yeah. Now from a very kind of nitty-gritty technical standpoint, when you present people with this. So somebody converts on something, we'll go back to our example of the social media playbook, and they're sent either an email or they're sent to a thank you page, you're giving them this opportunity to say, "Here is the direction that I wanna go." Is that as simple as they're clicking a button and then that button sends a signal in HubSpot to put them in a certain customer segment and it kicks off the workflow? Kipp: Yeah. Yeah. So basically there's essentially four different workflows and based on which button you click in that email you're gonna get enrolled in that workflow. Kathleen: Okay, and I think I have some screenshots of some of that, so I'll include that in the show and that's for anyone who's curious to see what those examples look like. Kathleen: I love that and that's something that's really easy for I think anybody to implement, is really what's your problem, and based on the problem to then put in place the nurturing. Kipp: Anything you can do to get a clearer understanding of what your prospect is looking for, their core problem, so you can deliver on that is going to drastically improve your marketing results. Kathleen: Now am I right to assume that if I do come to your website, I do convert on that social media playbook, that's my first conversion, I then enter into one of these four workflows -- am I right to assume that you have some suppression in place so that if I then, five minutes later go and download something on something else entirely that I'm not gonna then start to get five different emails? Kipp: Yeah, these are basically like the master workflows, so once you've had that first conversion you're gonna get enrolled in that workflow and regardless of what else you do you're gonna stay in that workflow and not get enrolled into anything else. Kathleen: Until it ends? Kipp: Until it ends. Kathleen: Yeah. Okay. Well that's so interesting and there you go, there's one great actionable tip. 2. A Strategy to Rank for High Traffic, Competitive Keywords Kathleen: One of the other things you talked about at IMPACT live I recall was a massive increase in traffic to the website. Kipp: Yup. Kathleen: Would you talk a little bit more about that? Kipp: Yeah, so when I think about, it's kinda tough to be a marketer today and the whole host of reasons, and one of the reasons it's tough is because it's just been a lot of consolidation of audience. And man Google and Facebook earn so much of the audience, and so when we think about how we grow organic traffic to our websites, man, Google is the top priority there. One of the things that we really learned is that there's some powerful stuff we could do to really get better distribution through Google, and one of the plays we did there was the content syndication play. So basically what happened is content syndication essentially is a process of taking some content we've published and republishing it on third-party sites for broader reach around that point of view and thought leadership. That's the base thing. And so we would create content for sites like Fast Company or The Muse, or Thrive Global, or other sites where at the end of that article we've got attribution that this article was originally posted on the HubSpot site. So Google knows that that article is not the canonical, the one on our site's the canonical article, so we're not messing Google up in anywhere there. When we first did that we thought, "Oh this is gonna be a play to get good referral traffic from those websites. Oh people are gonna see that and they're gonna click that little link in that article and get back to our site." And what we found is that that just wasn't true at all. You know an article for the Muse got us eight clicks, and that's just basic laws of conversion rate. But what we saw, what was interesting though, is even though that post did not get a ton of traffic from the Muse for example, it started jumping up the rankings for a bunch of different key words. And the views from organic search really started to climb, and wow we saw that as a pretty awesome and interesting opportunity. What we figured out is that syndication - instead of getting that direct traffic from the syndication partners - what it was actually a tool for was building authority in terms of linking and recency of traffic and everything else to those pages. Kathleen: Okay. Kipp: And it gave us some authority to basically increase the rank of those pages, and that was a really powerful revelation for us because we were able to figure out that, "Wow we need to use syndication as a tool in our organic search tool belt." This is a play that I think anybody can run and kind of, if you wanna think about how you apply this it's you've got to look at the content you already have and what of that content has high search potential? So, maybe it's already on the first page of Google, maybe in the bottom of the first page for example, so it has some resonance. It's got some credibility, it's on a topic that you care about, topic that has real search volume, and then you wanna go and you wanna promote that content through syndication partners, whether it through email, through Facebook. That additional promotion gets you additional inbound links and sends a signal to Google that this is a really quality piece of content, and then you're gonna see your organic ranking increase and have a much longer month-to-month tale of traffic and visits to that page because of that promotion effort. Kathleen: And that strategy presupposes obviously that you're able to find syndication partners that are open to republishing content that has appeared somewhere else, 'cause I know a lot of them are ... A lot of the big ones are really picky about that. Kipp: Yeah, and sometimes it might be a repackaging of that content, it might be a new twist on that content, that is, you know, maybe you've got an article on your site that's really in depth, that you take one portion of it and you kinda add to it and you make it a syndicated article that points back to that original article for a more in-depth look at that issue. Kathleen: That makes sense. Kipp: There are couple different ways that we've tried to do it. Kathleen: Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. And your traffic increase, if I remember correctly, it was something like 16,000% increase? Kipp: Yeah, so for one blog post, yeah, we ... The example I gave is we had one blog post that went from I think it was 500 views a month to over 69,000 views per month. 'Cause we were able- Kathleen: Wow. Kipp: ... to really change the dynamic of how that post ranked and how we were able to promote it. Kathleen: That's amazing. Now, just out of curiosity, have you looked at all or is your team looking at all at the impact that news aggregator sites could potentially have on gaining visibility for your content? I'm thinking like Apple News, Flipboard ... We're looking closely at that for ourselves 'cause we're kind of establishing ourselves as a publisher and I've read a lot about that but I haven't ... Kipp: Yeah we have, and so for us our big focus, those aggregators the key word of the statement you said is news. Kathleen: Yeah. Kipp: Right, and so it's a really different type of content and so what we have is we have, right now we have one person dedicated to news in our industry, and we actually, we are close to applying and getting into Google News for example, being able to include it in Google News results and then that paves the way to having that news content listed in those different aggregators. We have seen that to be, early signs are very positive. It is really gonna be, I think, until we are listed in Google News 'til we really know the extent of how valuable that play is and is it, "Wow we need to put more people on that because that's working really well," or is it kind of incremental on top of what we're doing. So that's kind of where we are in that process. We're just like you, we think there's some interesting opportunity there. There's a few technical things and everything we need to do to kind of finalize our play there to see how it actually works long term. Kathleen: Yeah I think you're right about being very specific on the news side, 'cause we are covering news as well but I think we made a strategic error, 'cause we applied for Google News as a publisher and initially got rejected, but that's I believe because we submitted our main RSS feed, which includes a lot of non-news topics along with the news, so I think we might need to go back. Kipp: They like you to have a whole separate feed and section of your site, how you structure the site matters a lot for those aggregators, so- Kathleen: Yeah. Kipp: We're in the process of fixing that and then we're doing real news. The woman who does that for us is traveling to events, she's covering stuff in real time. We've got a slack channel where she jumps in and asks people internally for comments. She's got some great external sources. We're really trying to treat it very much as a news outlet, much more than an educational content or how-to content outlet like a lot of our other content that is currently positioned. Kathleen: Yeah it's a really interesting shift and I'm looking forward to seeing where you guys take it and the impact that it has onsite traffic and a lot of these other things. So maybe we can do a followup next year on that. Kipp: We could. That'd be awesome. 3. Generating Leads With Facebook Messenger Kathleen: Great, well the other area that you talked about was Messenger, and particularly- Kipp: Yeah. Kathleen: ... Facebook Messenger, which I think is so interesting that something that's accessible to a lot of companies but very few I am seeing use it well, so maybe you could dig into that a little bit? Kipp: Yeah, it's interesting, there's been an increased ramp of the talk of website chat and live chat in the market, right? We've been doing live chat on our website for about five years at HubSpot, it's been a great channel for us. We're continuing to innovate there and really grow it's- Kathleen: You guys have a great product for that, too, I mean- Kipp: It's a great product, it helps with conversations, it's free if you wanna .... If you aren't using it check it out, but there's a ton of value there. I highly recommend it. If you don't, if you're not using any live chat on your website you really wanna start doing that. There's gonna be real benefit there. Kind of tangential to that, we also have this strong belief that we wanna remove friction, like I talked about earlier, and one of the ways you remove friction is to go where your customers are, where your prospects are, and there's just a huge part of our community that is on Facebook. So why are we gonna ask them to leave the Facebook ecosystem to engage with us on our website, chat with us on our website? Why can't we have them do that within the Facebook ecosystem, is essentially our kinda core hypothesis here. And you've got, we had a big Facebook book print, right? We have ... we're getting closer and closer to two million Facebook fans. We've got millions of Facebook video views, but man it's been ... we were kinda struggling, like how do we actually monetize this audience? How do we better engage with this audience? And we've done a bunch of different Facebook Messenger tests. The one I shared with you and the folks at IMPACT Live was around comment to messenger, which is a specific feature where basically you can set a keyword in a social post on Facebook, and if the person comments with that specific keyword -- for us we had an SEO tutorial video. If you commented SEO on that video, it opened a Messenger dialogue with an SEO quiz for you to test your SEO knowledge. That's the basic mechanics of it, and that quiz was awesome. It asked you some information about yourself, had some great questions for you- Kathleen: And the quiz happened in Messenger? Kipp: The quiz was all in Messenger, so delivered via a bot in Messenger, and then once that quiz was done we connected you with other pieces of content, so maybe an in-depth ebook on SEO. But man if you care enough to take an SEO quiz and you're feeling pretty good, maybe you wanna learn some more, and that SEO book, you could load it as a Facebook instant article, so you still didn't have to leave Facebook. And the interesting thing is from a form information perspective, if you wanna check out that ebook, we just asked you, the bot asked you a few form questions, you never needed to visit a webpage, fill out a form, and then we just automatically sink that back into HubSpot so we had all of your information. You could do great automation, customize your experience with us, and everything, as well as re-engage you via Facebook Messenger after you've consumed that quiz and that ebook. You know, follow up with you the next day to see, "Hey now that you've read that ebook do you have questions? Are there ways that we can help you?" Kathleen: How do you avoid people feeling like you're in their space on Facebook Messenger? 'Cause I feel like traditionally that's been such a private space, you know a friend-to-friend space and it's a fine line but brands walk if they go into that space. How have you guys handled that in terms of the frequency of messaging, the nature of it, et cetera? Kipp: Yeah, so we found it works most effectively when it's really anchored against something that they have real high in turn around. So the fact that we -- for this example, right -- the fact that we even kick off that Messenger interaction with a quiz that they have to opt into and they're doing in real time, and any followup is really around that quiz and around that topic, and then we really try to kind of hold off on much engagement until they actually proactively reengage, because you're right. We wanna be sensitive to the fact that it's often a space for friends and family, but man I think business has a great space there. Well if you are contextual and you're really trying to provide value and be helpful to them. And so it was pretty awesome in that of of the people that watched that SEO missed video on Facebook, about a little over 2% of them opted in and commented to take the quiz, which is a pretty good conversion rate. That's, I think a similar click-through rate, conversion rate, you would find on your website- Kathleen: Yeah. Kipp: ... and other places. SO I thought that was pretty good and I thought what was really interesting, if they opted in 95% of the people who opted in actually finished the quiz. So- Kathleen: Oh wow, that's actually very surprising. Kipp: - engagement of that platform, right? And the power of that platform, and the really crazy thing is that the quiz got them interested enough that of the folks that took the quiz 68% of those folks actually downloaded our ebook. Kathleen: Wow. Kipp: They were really engaged, really wanted that next step. We were able to teach them some really interesting stuff from the quiz and they wanted to take the next step of their education. Kathleen: That's pretty impressive and what interests me the most about this one is that for a lot of companies there's a feeling of frustration that they spent years building up their page likes for their company page in Facebook, only to have Facebook pull the rug out from under them and basically make it so that nobody saw anything unless they paid to play, and this is an interesting way to derive value out of people who've liked your page or people who are interacting with it that I think it's a way to drive value in those legacy fans if you will. Kipp: I think that's right. I think that's a very astute observation on your part. Kathleen: Is this something that's really hard for the average business to set up? Is it super techy complicated or is it pretty accessible? Kipp: No, you know it's getting much more accessible every day. You could do some of this with the HubSpot Conversations product I talked about. Many Chat is a really great product. They've got a great HubSpot integration as well. There's a few other platforms out there, but if you just wanna go and create a free account on either HubSpot or Many Chat you can get something like this up and running pretty quickly actually. Kathleen: That's great. And you also have some other ways you've used Facebook for conversion, I think you mentioned you have some native lead forms in there as well? Or- Kipp: Yeah, so as part of this quiz or any of the Facebook Messenger engagements we do kinda natively forms within Messenger instead of sending people to an HTML form on a website, and we've found that the conclusion rates, conversion rates are really strong there as well. Kathleen: So they don't have to go off of Facebook or off of Messenger, they can stay where they are and it all syncs back into the platform. Now, technical question. Kipp: Sure. Kathleen: When you take this approach, are you sacrificing the ability to cookie that person? Kipp: You are. You are. We believe that the number one thing is to deliver that prospect a remarkable native experience wherever they are to the extent that we can do that for them, right? And that's why we format our search content for answer boxes so that if they don't need to click through then they don't have to click through. We're trying very hard to get them the information that they're looking for as quickly as possible, and knowing that if we do a great job of that, that we're gonna build great brand awareness, we're gonna build great trust with them, they're gonna take the higher-intent actions that we're hoping for as they continue to interact with us. Kathleen: Yes. Kipp: But you're giving up the right to cookie, but you ... I don't know actually say you're trading off the right to cookie for the right to have a Messenger exchange with them, right? And you can retarget them on Facebook, there's other advantages, but what you're really sacrificing is cookie-ing for interactions kind of across the web and exchanging that for deeper interactions in the Facebook ecosystem. Kathleen: Yeah and it almost seems to me, maybe you're not trading off or giving up the ability to cookie, you're postponing it- Kipp: Yeah, exactly. Kathleen: ... because if you do your job well, they will eventually come to your site and- Kipp: Totally. Totally. Kathleen: ... convert on something, and you'll get them anyway. So, yeah, I guess it all depends on the quality of that first interaction and the value that you're delivering. Kipp: You've gotta bring the value, first and foremost, before anything else. 4. Growing Traffic Through News Coverage Kathleen: Yeah, so going back to the topic of news. Kipp: Yes. Kathleen: You touched on this earlier, this has been a big play for you guys. I heard you mention this. I think I heard Matthew Barbey talk about it when he spoke at INBOUND. Kipp: Yup. Kathleen: How did this start? Kipp: It started, we've always kind of covered news a little bit because even in the early days of our HubSpot blog it was because ... In the early days of social news content got you a lot of social traffic, and we're like, "Oh cool. This is a sweet way to get different people to discover us and get cool discoverability on social," and as social's kind of matured that's become a little less true, but now we've seen it as a unique way to get to a different type of audience through search news aggregators like we were talking about a little bit ago. For example, one of the things we've noticed is that on average our news posts have a lot more links coming into them and more page authority than our non-news posts. Kathleen: Huh. That's interesting. When I think about the traffic impact of news, it almost seems like a food analogy comes to mind. I feel like news can be a bit like a sugar high, you get that big initial spike and then you drop because obviously news gets old quickly, and more traditional content, like being on the protein diet, you get the long slow burn. Kipp: Close. Kathleen: Is that kind of what you've seen with your traffic? Kipp: Some, but not completely. We try to take an editorial commentary on the news that makes it more evergreen. And you also have a lot of research all on past news events, it's less like that. I think it's certainly partly like that, but it's less severe than I think you're kind of outlining it to be. What we've seen is that you get a mix of social and search traffic to that news content, and you attract in ... You're really bring in people at kind of a different point in their process, right? When you're getting people to do a search they have an intent for one very specific thing. News you're bringing people with much more passive intent, they didn't know they were looking for this thing but now that they've found it they're interested in it and they're engaging with it and maybe engaging with follow-along content and stuff from that. Kathleen: Is part of your strategy to also go back and update older news posts when there are developments? Kipp: Yeah, I mean news and non-news posts. We try to keep our best content always up to date. Kathleen: Yeah. Kipp: With a lot of time doing that, I'm sure you all do as well, it's just an important thing in today's internet, 'cause like you said, stuff changes and stuff can get out of date pretty quickly. Kathleen: Yeah, absolutely. Well it's super interesting to me because some of what you guys are doing I think we're testing out at a much smaller and maybe less ambitious level but it's great to be able to have some insight into the approach you're taking and the results you're getting. Kipp: Yeah, good. I'm glad. Kathleen: I'll be really curious to see what happens with the news aggregations, that's one that I'm- Kipp: I know. Kathleen: ... personally very interested in at the moment, so ... Kipp: Me too, and I'm a little impatient on it. Hopefully - Kathleen: Yeah, I know. There's nothing like sitting back and waiting for Google to approve you. I ... we applied and did get accepted to Flipboard, but it took like- Kipp: Oh nice. Kathleen: ... a month-and-a-half, which was incredibly frustrating. I wanted to know like 24 hours later, so ... Kipp: Totally. Kathleen: We're all at the mercy of the platforms, right? Kipp: That is the world we live in right now. HubSpot's Marketing Plan for 2019 Kathleen: So my last question for you on this topic is just as we head into the New Year, can you share anything about where your focus is gonna be coming into 2019? Kipp: Well there's a lot of focus, but we want to ... Man, I'm pretty- Kathleen: And I'm springing this on you, I didn't tell you I was gonna ask you about this. Kipp: Well I'm pretty obsessed with reducing friction, just making the best buying experience possible. The best educational experience possible for our community and so, man, we're gonna continue to make even bigger investments in Messenger and live chat, and automation, so you're gonna see a bunch more stuff from us on that front. And then we're gonna continue to double down on the great educational content, but continue to evolve how we're telling the stories. More video, YouTube, things like that. We're gonna invest more there as well. Kathleen: So you're not scared off by ... Everyone's been saying in the news that the pivot to video was kind of based on a false premise because Facebook didn't have the right data, are you ... You're not rethinking your strategy because of that? Kipp: I think Instagram's growing like a weed. I think YouTube's a huge network with the ability to drive awareness, I think, only growing there. I think there's a big opportunity. Kathleen: Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. Kathleen's Two Questions Kathleen: Well this has been great. I've learned a lot. I probably have a thousand more questions, but you only have an hour, so ... Kipp: No worries. Kathleen: Before we wrap up there's two questions I always ask all of my guests, and I would love to get your take on it. The first is, company or individual, who do you think is doing inbound marketing really well right now? Kipp: I love what our customer ezCater is doing. They're doing a really, really awesome job. Some folks who don't know, they are a platform that enables, they're kinda like an Uber Eats for catering for businesses. And they're doing a great job reducing friction in their buying process, they have a great website. They have an awesome blog creating content around catering and food trends and everything else. It's definitely a market you probably wouldn't think about for awesome inbound marketing, but I think they're doing a really, really great job. Kathleen: That's great and I love when people give me examples from outside of the marketing industry, because I feel like we can be a giant echo chamber so I can't wait to check them out. Second question is, as you know the world of digital marketing changes so quickly, how do you personally stay up to date and educate yourself? Kipp: Yeah, for me I try to have like a system of how I consume information so, Twitter lists for people who I really respect their opinion of, certain Flipboard magazines from people and sources that I think have really awesome information. I subscribe to some old-school email newsletters 'cause some of them are really good, like Brian Balfour's 'Reforge' newsletter. Kathleen: That's a good one. Kipp: Right? I love Brian. He used to work here with us and so I always want to know what he and that crew is thinking about. So really that's what I want to do. And then sometimes, honestly, sometimes I'll just see a piece of marketing and I'll think it's really good and I'll just go try to find out who did it and talk to them. Kathleen: Yeah. Kipp: Be like, "Hey this is awesome. How'd you do it? Tell me more about it," and I think sometimes just doing that is super valuable as well. Kathleen: Yeah, that's what my podcast is for me. It's my excuse to sponge all the knowledge from the people that I wanna learn from. How to Connect With Kipp Kathleen: Well this has been fantastic. If somebody is listening and they have a question or wanna learn more, what's the best way for them to connect with HubSpot or with you online? Kipp: Yeah, so HubSpot, go to HubSpot.com, chat with us, sign up for our free products, whatever you need there. And then to chat with me, just connect with me on LinkedIn, send me an email, happy to chat and connect and do whatever I can do to help. Kathleen: Great, and I'll put links to your LinkedIn profile and to HubSpot on the show notes, and thank you. This has been fascinating. You Know What Comes Next... Kathleen: If you're listening and you got value out of today's podcast, you know what to do. I would love it if you'd leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or the platform of your choice, and if you know someone else who's doing kick ass inbound marketing work, Tweet me @workmommywork because I would love to interview them. Thanks Kipp. Kipp: Awesome, thanks Kathleen. Appreciate it.

Hey I'm back from an unintended hiatus and I've got Chipotle on my mind along with Anime and cookies. I also start to process some of my thoughts about cancel culture, and I'm sure I'll revisit again at some point soon and I flesh it out more. As always, you can follow me on Twitter @ThoughtsandEyes Follow the blog at www.MeMyThoughtsandEyes.wordpress.com Thanks for the listen!

Today with us is Kevin Kaufman. Kevin along with Fred Weaver are the leaders of the 46:10 Real Estate Network. Kevin shares his story of his journey in real estate and success in operating as an expansion team in multiple markets. He also talks about why he came to the decision to move from Keller Williams to EXP and how the EXP system has helped his business grow. He also touches on how other systems are now moving in to EXP alike systems and why they are still set back while EXP is already big. Kevin also gives advice to those who are thinking to make the move.   Learn More about eXp Realty - Click here to watch a quick 7 Minute Intro Video. Remember our disclaimer: The materials and content discussed within this podcast are the opinions of Kevin Cottrell and/or the guests interviewed.  This information is intended as general information only for listeners of the podcast. Listeners should conduct their own due diligence and research before making any business decisions. This podcast is produced completely independently of eXp Realty and is not endorsed, funded or otherwise supported by eXp Realty directly or indirectly.   In this episode Expansion Bussiness EXP Validation How EXP is a win compared to franchise systems EXP tools for agents EXP is already where other systems want to be Equal opportunities for everybody Revenue Share Income streams Kevin’s those thinking to make the move to EXP   Take Away "EXP's virtual platform gives us the opportunity to explore the environment that helps us be the most conducive environment to us being productive.."   Want to Learn More about eXp Realty? If you are interested in learning more about eXp, reach out to the person who introduced you to eXp or contact Tom to inquire or ask questions. Contact Kevin: Email: realestate@group4610.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KevinKauffman0 Facebook Group Next Level Agents https://www.facebook.com/groups/nextlevelagents/ Links: www.EXPCloud.com   Transcription Kevin : I am host Kevin Cottrell joining me today is Kevin Kaufmann. He is the leader along with Fred Weaver at the group 46:10 Real Estate Network. Previously with Keller Williams. Kevin's gonna share a story today not only of his journey in real estate and success in operating as an expansion team in multiple markets but why he came to the decision after looking very carefully about moving from Keller Williams over to EXP Realty. I'm sure you want to listen to this episode Kevin's got some great insight. Whether you're a team leader for a team, a solo practitioner or in actually another expansion team I think you'll find Kevin's insight into why he ultimately decided to move to EXP very very interesting. Welcome to the show. Kevin. Kaufmann: Hey thanks a lot I appreciate it. Kevin : Well I've been looking forward to this conversation. I know not only when you announced and we'll get into that a little bit you changing brokerages but I see all over social media but for anyone listening to this podcast episode that doesn't know what a rock star organization you run why don't you give a little of your background and information about your network as well as your business. Kaufmann: Yeah no problem so I'm based in Phoenix Arizona in Tempe actually as is where our office is and we.. I say "we" because I've got a business partner Fred Weaver him and I started working together in February of 2008. So I've been licensed for about six months at that time with him and I had done a few things some short sales actually because he had introduced me to them and we'd kind of teamed up on those early out of my career like literally a third transaction I ever did was a short sale listing of Fred's because he was leaving the country and going on his honeymoon. And so I sort of took over and handled a short sale is my first short sale and we ended up closing a couple you know probably good thousand or so 800 to 1000 short sales over the next few years and you know we started building our business around that and it was obviously like anything else very slow at first but in Phoenix short sales was it. So I can remember getting into the business and there being almost 60 thousand homes for sale at that time and put that in perspective here we are in late 2013 is about fifteen sixteen thousand homes on the market. So quite a bit more inventory right. Prices were dropping every day but that and we started building a team and we started taking some mentorship and learning as much as we could and built this real estate team. We ended up naming group 46:10 quite frankly because we didn't want our personal names on the team which didn't wanna have our names on the sign or our phone numbers on the signs and so we started working together and really out of just trying to help each other and it just became this thing we built this team named a group 46:10 and kind of evolved and shifted through the years and definitely have had our kind of that reincarnation where we had to shift from you know going from a short sale or distressed market to a more normal market shift in our models where we went you know kind of like a millionaire real estate agent model if you've ever read that book which I know you have and running that business model too. We actually had salaried buyers agents on our team for for about a year and a half and then to a newer model where we you know just blew it all up again and really started growing and then eventually started selling real estate more than one market more than one city and more than one state. And here we are 2018 and it's deftly been quite a ride. Kevin : Yeah you're in the parlance of that large franchise system before you made the broker change which we'll talk about over to EXP or an expansion business in multiple markets in multiple states were you not. Kaufmann: Yeah yeah. And we still are Phoenix like I said his home base we still operate in Denver Colorado which was our first expansion location and next expansion location was Nashville Tennessee where we still are to this day we also still sell real estate in San Luis Obispo California kind of central coast that we started there in the middle of 2017 started work in there and we still sell it in other parts and Arizona a little bit in Yuma and Tucson Arizona which is obviously outside of Phoenix and not quite the reach that we used to have. We've certainly had our growing pain lessons of opening up stuff too fast and too quick and then having to shut it down and things like that. But you know we still cover four different states and how about six or seven different markets. Kevin : Fantastic well gives everybody a good background and obviously you know I've seen your stats right you guys are a big producing operation you're in the top 250 way way up in the list. And so when you decide to do something with your business this mission critical like change brokerages it's a big deal right it's not an inconsequential decision and for people listening right because with what's going on we'll talk about virtual brokerage or expansion operations in the industry because there's a lot of news that's come out and I want to get your take on it but for you personally and your partner you and Fred sat down you said you know what we're going to consider EXP. What drove that. In other words you certainly couldn't miss it. Right. We've been on fire for I call with two friends. My business partner for the last thirty nine months since he's been here it's like the news started accelerating last October when was it that you said you know what we need to dig into this and figure it out. Kaufmann: Yeah. You know it's funny it's not what it's who. And that who is Curtis Johnson so I'm sure you know Curtis he's a dear friend of mine and has been for 10 plus years. And you know it's funny because you look at Curtis Carson always got a suit and tie on and I'm always in shorts and flip flops and can't even find a shirt with a collar. And so we're kind of the Odd Couple and yet at the same time you know I absolutely adore Curtis and look up to him and a lot of ways. But you know Curtis moved he came to Fred and I in December of last year so he had been strongly considering the EXP and at that point he was pretty sure he was going to make the moves. Curtis came to us because we'd had conversations in the past about trying to find a way to work together. I mean we've tossed around all sorts of ideas. We talked about merging our businesses. We talked about starting a title company together we just were always looking for a way to get into business together and couldn't quite find that thing. And so he comes to us in December he says hey I think I'm a go to EXP I want you guys to come. Truthfully we kinda laughed at him and said Man you know go for it. You know wish you well but that's not my gig. But I obviously want to root for your man. I love you. Come back and let us know what you think after you've been there for four or five months. And so he did. And thank God Curtis you know never gave up on us. And he came back and we had lunch like we do every few months. In May of this year and I'll never forget it was the first week of May and sat down for lunch with Curtis and he started telling us about his experience so far at EXP and it just literally blew my mind and I guess what's worth noting Kevin is that at that point Fred and I had been looking for a new opportunity we'd been looking to leave Callaway homes for quite a while and we'd been doing quite a bit of due diligence on a lot of other companies that actually hadn't done any on the EXP. You know Curtis he runs a massive business. You know they sell 300 plus transactions a year and have for 15 20 years now in the Phoenix area. And so it's not like him moving also. It wasn't inconsequential. We realized it was a big deal and he's someone who is close to us. We went OK what's going on over there. Like what are you seeing. And so he told us what he saw. He shared his experience with us and quite frankly it really grabbed our attention and we said we got to consider this and it wasn't even a six weeks later that we were moved and quite frankly we had a move center if we could but we couldn't. We had our number one guy the guy who runs our Colorado operations and has for four years now from day one. He happened to be out of the country for four weeks during that timeframe. And so we literally couldn't move any sooner. So we saw the opportunity we saw how great of a system it is how awesome expertise platform is that what it could do for our business and our sales business and we saw it as an opportunity to grow and something that could actually be sort of the model and system that we had been seeking out yet hadn't found anywhere yet. Kevin : It's interesting because for listeners what Kevin has shared is the most common response is mostly for something that has a significant business that Hey I'm gonna watch what you're going to do I'm interested. I love you you're a great person I'm going to mastermind with you etc.. It could be anything from an informal relationship to anything like that but it's pretty incredible in other words you listen to the interview with Jay Kinder in his line is what's been seen can't be unseen and that's the message that I think Kevin you would agree with me is there is so much misinformation out there there's so much noise it's getting less because it's getting invalidated right. It used to be. Well you know there on the pink sheet there over the counter then on May 21st we went up listed on the Nasdaq sets. You know and the financials I've been out there for forever and a day so you know the franchise systems try and put that fear out there that it's not going to happen and this is just a silly operation especially with the announcement that the number one franchise system is going to do their own state wide virtual brokerage in all the states. Right. You know that is something that will jump in to in a second but I love your message which is "don't give up on me" right? You know Curtis did a great job of having that conversation and you have to share his story and you're fairly new to the system. But I want to get your take coming out of that large franchise system from expansion right. There's lots of people right now is mostly what we can talk about in a minute with the announcement about the virtual brokerage operations they've got to figure out what they're going to do right. The industry is clearly changing my prediction and what you heard Jean and I talk about is we get 5, 7 years from now in bricks and mortar are going to be either the minority or all but virtually gone for brokerages. It's going to be hard to compete when so much of the industry goes to I don't have bricks and mortar on every corner. We're all over the place. So what would your advice be based on what you've learned from Curtis and what you know about the system now that you're in it for somebody that's maybe got a expansion plan they want to a multi market or they've already started another trying to figure out hey before I go roll this out and really complicate my life you know what would Kevin's advice be if we locked you know five or 10 of these people in a room and you say hey this is where my perspective is. Kaufmann: Yeah. You know my perspective is number one don't go that fast. And that's probably the advice that I got that I just didn't listen to quite frankly as I think like most of us out a victim of my own success right? We hit it out of the park in Denver and while Nashville at first was certainly not a glaring victory it over time it's really become a big one for us. And you start developing these systems you start to believe you can just kind of go everywhere. I'm just gonna say within the constraints of working in a Keller Williams which is a franchise system and KW is not right or wrong good or bad in my opinion. But you know what it is for sure that we can't say is the franchise system. And there is a lot of constraints for real estate because of the way real estate works the way things work with the Department of real estate advertising laws you name it. Like there are so many things that have to be factored in. What we found is we're putting these little bandaids over all these little things that we had to keep working and eventually we just got so big and we're paying so much money to be there that it just we couldn't avoid it. And the minute having the minute we looked at the EXP. We went oh my gosh this is what we've been asking for and what was we've been looking for for so long. In fact the thing I don't mind sharing with you is we were challenged early on in our search for a new home by a gentleman very good guy who was extremely intelligent. He's now the CEO of NRT. Ryan Gorman very smart guy. He said you know why I didn't know what perfect is for you. So that forced us to really think about perfect and there was two things that Fred and I were very clear on from that day forward we were never going to make a move. Number one it had to be one brokerage per state. And a lot of people don't realize how big of a benefit that is. But once you operate in more than one city and more than one MLS and more than one brokerage within the same state you quickly realize what a blessing that is. And then number two is it had to be a financial win for the folks on it in our business who are really on the ground for making things happen working with buyers and sellers. Those two things have to happen. And obviously when you know the EXP model you realize those two things are like that. It's kind of again no doubt. That's just part of it's built in right. That's baked into that because blindside too you know that's the thing I got when I talked to Glenn first time I talked to Glenn I realized oh my gosh this guy he's solving or solved all the same problems I've been trying to solve. That was my biggest takeaway within about five minutes of being on the phone with him the first time. And so when we look at EXP That's amazing. And the truth of the matter is I love Keller Williams. I'm extremely. Let me rephrase that I loved. I'm extremely grateful for what I got there and for my time there and for what I learned in the relationships and that just isn't possible inside of a franchise system. Kevin : And that's great wisdom. I come out of the same system right. I was a team leader there. I was with Andy Allan and Aaron Lancaster you go pull out your original first edition of MRA book. Those guys are in the mastermind groups right. You know Glenn was there too. So if you look at it and you listen to the interview with Brian Culhane he talks about Glenn's expansion teams and Brian helped run those right so that the predecessor to EXP even being formed was essentially expansion business in multiple states. So it's kind of an interesting history. And now here we are even though you know people like Gary Keller he's a visionary. I mean I sat in meetings with him and Dave Jenks and Andy and Aaron where he's like here's how we're gonna get you to go multi market. That was in like 2003. So he was way ahead of the time you know flash forward the complexity you describe in the franchise system and I want to get your take on it right the big announcement at maybe camp was statewide brokerage operations right virtual operations as an overlay on top of franchises. Now you know for people listen to this here's what happened. I'm not gonna make any judgment to this comment. I'll let people read between the lines. A franchise system makes the franchisee review and sign and an underlying review in sign the FTD it's a federal disclosure every year. Right it's a part of being a franchise operation. Do you think that most of the LPs actually read that thing. Kaufmann: Well listen man I was a regional director for KW for like 30 seconds. I couldn't get past the like the first four pages and a couple of hundred pages or whatever. Kevin : So I'm not gonna make judgments of this. We were approached by some of our good friends and like you I have lots and lots of contacts and love for Keller Williams. There's great people there. Well here's what happened. I was sent as it was Gene and a number of other people the FTD and specifically a page reference well somebody read it. They were able to do what they're doing and this is why a lot of the LPs are scratching their heads. Now they're like well wait a minute I got a franchise awarded and I had a territory. Where's the bad news for you go read your FTD. They took the Territory restriction out last September in the edition they put out last year. So most people don't even know that in and maybe that for a lot of people and the listeners for this podcast this is the first time you're going to realize if you're an LP at Keller Williams you probably want to go pull out your FTD if your scratching your head has to wait a minute. How do they do this. Well that was something was put in there and they did this the first time ever they did it. So this big announcement and all the noise and you know I like Adam I've known Adam a long time and he's talking you know he did his Facebook Live I'm sure you watched it too. Our was sent to you and you watched it and the message is they're very aware that this is going to be disruptive we're already disrupting it EXP right. So now you've got the franchise system doing it and you know God bless him. It's complete validation of the EXP right. They've been saying this doesn't make sense does make sense. It's not going to work but we're the number one franchise system on you know transactions et cetera et cetera et cetera age account and then they come out and make him they go statewide virtual operations you know. So what is your take on it right. You know you described something about operating in multiple markets let's just take it within one state right. You know you go into a big market let's say you were going to expand to Dallas. You know there's multiple owners and multiple offices. Each one's going to have a different ownership group or you know potentially overlapping and you're going to have to deal with that. And like you said in an EXP world that doesn't exist right it's state by state there's a brokerage operation that covers the entire state and multiple MLS is. So what is your take on it. Based on the virtual brokerage operation let's pretend hypothetically you were still at Keller Williams and now you can join the you know you qualify right because they've certainly made it clear you have to be at an elite level you qualify and you're going to be able to expand. It's going to be a win for expansion operations it simplifies your growth. Correct? Kaufmann: That's assuming that they can actually pull it off. So I think what's really important Kevin as we look at the fact the plan's not there yet. If you go back and listen to the CEO speech they'll have the details. The actual setting up of let's call it 50 brokerages because there's 50 states maybe they don't need 50 I don't know. But let's just call it 50 for sake of an argument setting up 50 brokerages higher shitty brokers doing all that stuff like first of all there's some logistical nightmares there that have to happen like you know EXP didn't get to thirteen thousand agents overnight it was launched in 2009. Here we are it's 2018 and it feels like they just burst on the scene over the last couple of years. But you and I both know it's been going on for you know since 2009 and it's not to say that this is going to Keller Williams nine years to get going. However there are quite a few things that have to happen. What I'm more concerned about is changing the FTD is one thing but in a franchise system you've got five and 10 year contracts for your franchise. And so changing terms and conditions on like page one hundred and thirty seven at four hundred and two in the third paragraph second sentence there can be some legal ramifications there. And so they've obviously got to be really careful in how they roll this out. My opinion is that was a statement to say hey please bear with us we're working on this we're trying to we're trying to fix it we realize it's a problem now they've known it's a problem for years it's been at least over two years since since they've been aware of this issue and it just now decided to come public with it which definitely was funny. Interesting timing but the reality is is it's going to be still really hard to execute and then when they do execute. My guess is there's probably going to be consequences from legal ramifications from the franchise owners. That's my guess and unfortunate that'll probably end up in court. And you have to choose you are Keller Williams international or any other franchise. Are you going to choose the group of agents that are running these and this expansion business or are you going to choose the people that you have a franchise agreement with. Kevin : Absolutely. I agree with you. I mean I think that it was definitely something that when you look at it it's definitely doesn't have the detail at this point but what was interesting that came out in Adam's video was they were already fielding calls of 40 or 50 LPs at a time and having people I would expect being concerned. So my take on it is the bigger concern I have. I mean Jean and I and you and others have a passion for agents. That's the culture and foundation of EXP Realty. And I worry about creating an environment of sort of the elite expansion businesses having preferential terms and the average agent in the market center right let's say that I don't ever want to be Kevin and Fred and have a gigantic multi market business. But now I'm competing with the let's say it let's us hypothetically flash forward and I figure out some of the details and they don't end up with a mess and they're able to execute let's say even if they take a state like Arizona and they roll this out. Now there is a dichotomy in the market right there's the haves and the have nots right? If I'm an expansion business and I'm able to do this I continually cut a deal in the way that they framed it out in the preferential terms in terms of how I do this. And now I'm an agent in the market center and unless I graduate to the elite level and qualify I don't get even on the playing field and I don't like how that feels from an agent standpoint right. Because there are great agents in the KW systems with a lot of them. You and I are friends with lots and not everybody wants to be the gigantic multistate operation to qualify for that elite level and I don't want your take on it is I heard from a lot of people. "I don't like how this feels. I don't want to have that business." "That's not me. I've got a great business. I've got a small team here but I'm really concerned that I'm going to be competing on a level field". Kaufmann: Not only that the other piece you got to look at here Kevin. And let's just say that the LPs overall are our quote unquote OK with it. So if you go look at these top expansion teams and I'm not going to name names there most of them are my friends and people are highly respect and in some cases really love So we're talking about they're gonna get to go to this extra brokerage this new brokerage this virtual brokerage and and those agents on their team will now get this you know call it a half cap if you will and special treatment. But the problem is is those teams are comprised of other capping KW agents. And so what's going to happen is. So if I am one of these you know mega team X expansion teams when I grow color wins doesn't grow like it stays the same because I'm just they're just recruiting other KW agents to their team. A lot of cases they're recruiting another Keller Williams team to their team and it's what I call their acquiring teams they're not even recruiting agents they're acquiring other teams. And I don't see how that win. So if I'm on the local market center owner and I've got no. 6 or 7 capping agents in my company. And now they've been recruited to these six or seven different mega expansion teams and now they're going to leave my brokerage. I can't go to the other brokerage. Not only are they going to pay a lot less money in company dollar but then that's going to get shared back. But I like am I going to get all of that back? and I get even if I got all of it it's still not even half of what I was getting. And so again you run into legal ramifications that I think clearly haven't been thought through and that's why it's not rolled out and why it won't be rolled out for some time because they will have problems like that. Kevin : I couldn't agree with you more. My personal story which we talked about before we started recording is the fact that you know even in a market center right let's forget about the statewide brokerage operation for a minute and you're highly successful right. I moved into a marketplace from out of state. I didn't know anybody and I went in less than three years from zero to 240 transactions a year. This was before the online stuff was dominated by real track common Zillow in most markets. We set up a real geek's Web site was one of the first ones we rolled out in a massive way. And I knew Jeff Manson pretty well and so I roll out this Web site. I hire a whole content team and we knock it out of the park. We're ranking for a gazillion things. We're starting to get everybody's leads right. We're doing what expansion teams do as well from the lead generation standpoint right. They start to dominate the markets right. You know the really big ones come in like you said they roll in teams and otherwise and they turn on massive Legion. So I run into a problem right. I'm brought in in the open and the team that are like you are causing so much chaos in our markets center. We've had 15 or twenty five agents complain about it that this person and that person are working with your buyer agent. This is going on and that's going on and we can't have that. And you know the bad news is the way they resolve that in a franchise is I was asked to leave and I was told I mean I have 57 active listings 30 paintings and I was brought in an hour before and a I'll see meeting and told you've got till Friday you move. I didn't right. I negotiated a more orderly transition out. But if we look at that now flash forward to statewide brokerage operations there is going to be no remedy for the agent market center because they're open to too are going to say well I don't know what to tell you. That's a state brokerage issue and we have nothing to do with them. If you're a franchise agent and you're worried about this just I can tell you from personal experience you know you've reach out to me if you want to have an offline conversation. But the net net on it was I wasn't given an option. I even talked with the regional director and his answer to me was I do not know what to tell you this is a franchise issue they can resolve things how they see fit. We have nothing to do with it. And the region can't help you. Well that's kind of going to be the dialogue with somebody complaining about a giant expansion business. It's going to be you know sorry. They're in a different brokerage and be like you complaining about a different franchise and that's my biggest concern. When I talk about the unlevel playing field is I've seen how this is resolved. And so my word of warning for people is you know Kevin's very very astute on this. It's potentially not going to be rolled out for a while but if you're looking at your business long term just realize that this is an issue you're going to have to cross and it may or may not be an issue for you but just know that you know potentially an unlevel playing field is being created and it doesn't feel good to me right. Because I know how they resolve the issues and the ability to get it resolved is going to be messy. Number one you know as far as execution but you know the good news is there is an environment in EXP where you know we've always allowed you know the rainmaker to come in on a team and they've got you know one cap nationwide and they can go build as they see fit. We don't have the complexity in the issues we've done the hard fight of opening offices you know in terms of a state brokerage operation in each state for 49 states. And that takes a while. Right. We've learned lots of lessons. You know when you see Glen message about this it's like Oh my God we've learned so much since we started in 2009 to do this and the reason we didn't open all 50 states immediately was that it would be virtually impossible to tackle all the complexities that are different in every state. So I share your view Kevin that this is not happening anytime soon. So if somebody were listening to this and obviously they're trying to get the you know two or three main drivers let's talk about a couple of different audiences. You are you know running a Facebook group and I will get all your information out here in a minute before we get done recording so people can find you on Facebook and you know some of the stuff you sharing your masterminds and some of the stuff you do. But if you were advising let's just talk about a couple of the different constituents out there right. Somebody in the franchise system there a capper and they're looking at this potential for a future unlevel playing field. What would be the two or three things you'd tell about what you know about EXP for why they would want to probably strongly at least take a good look at it. Kaufmann: The reality is EXP is an awesome company in what you look at it. You start to see that. So I'll speak for where I was like I just didn't look at it I didn't give it a fair shake and I just decided you know my brand better than your brand. Blah blah blah. And I fell in for that whole thing. Which is just dumb right. I mean when I look at like what all everything I have inside of enterprise which is the backend system everything from the marketing support to tech like Sky slope the ability to have the different Web sites through the technology agreement. There is a lot. Therefore it. Agent who quite frankly especially looking at the marketing platform you can build a bigger business for less money because of the tools that are already included. So this is not EXP talking about we're gonna have it one day. It's actually already here today it's been here for a while. Then you take a look at the fact that it's virtual which is awesome. And if you want to have a physical space you can do that. I'm a physical guy like I literally like to show up to the office every day. I bought an office building about a year ago long before I ever thought I'd be at EXP because I want to own commercial real estate and it's flexible. And so you can go to an office if you want. There's obviously the Regus agreement but there's also the opportunity to go buy your own building or go rent somewhere else and rent your own space whatever it is. The thing is is we're not all the same as real estate agents. We all want something a little bit different. We might be doing the same thing because we're told we're supposed to but we haven't really explored that and EXPs virtual platform gives us the opportunity to explore the environment that helps us be the most conducive environment to us being productive. One of the things I always loved about KW Was the ability to mastermind to share things with other agents and I just have never seen anything more collaborative than what happens here at the EXP and that is supported obviously because of things like the financial incentives to do so when you introduce somebody to the company whether that's through the stock plan or through the revenue share plan etc. This is like truly open book. Let's share let's help each other let's grow in a big way way beyond anything I've ever experienced my life and I've been in every circle there is to be an inside of the other company and it was great. Don't get me wrong but I like this a little bit better a lot better in fact and so I think no matter what your thing is whether that's the ability to create other income streams besides buying or listing another house or building another team or a bigger team or buy more leads etc. or the ability to leverage the technology that already exists that isn't just coming one day maybe. Or the ability to do business across multiple states and have the level playing field like just the simple fact that the split is the split no matter what state you're at. No matter how big of a producer whether you've sold 500 houses last year or five I think that's amazing. And I think that's great. And I think that it shows that there is an equal opportunity here for everybody. It's truly equal opportunity that everyone's here to take advantage of it the same way you look at those things and I just want you know I truly believe that this platform gives not just me but any agent who wants to be honest about it and really look at it and give it a fair shake it gives us the ability to grow a bigger business than we ever knew was possible. And it gives us the ability to create other income streams besides just selling more real estate and growing a bigger team. And it's kind of hard to not like that. Kevin : Absolutely. You know you and I have been in a franchise environment in growing teams and when we are on point we recruit talent. Right? And so that dynamic that you talked about that i'll just touch on for a minute is guest after guest on the podcast talks about the fact that in the previous franchise system or in their office some of them were in the same market center and they're like we never collaborated on one single thing right. We were number one and number two in this market center in the Dallas area and now we collaborate. Now we mastermind how we talk and so that sharing which is not necessarily very transparent outside is something that I love hearing you say because it is nothing short of incredible and the retention strategies around building wealth for the talent that we recruit. Even if they decide to go off on their own we're in a lot of the franchise systems that's something that creates strife sometimes people leave and they unfortunately go to other brokerages. I'm not seeing this develop at all at EXP. I mean you know there's these "let me help you grow and then if you decide you don't want to be in my operation my team anymore" you know because of the other streams of income the fact that we're all shareholders it's basically encouraged and you know I haven't found anybody that doesn't just get blown away with what they see once they're in the system. Kaufmann: It's pretty remarkable what it is when you actually look at it. Kevin : And I agree with you. And so your advice of digging in is absolutely spot on right. In other words you can't go by what's posted in the you know thousand comment streams in the large Facebook groups right where somebody says What about this versus this and I called the brokerage bashing that goes on in the comments or you know if you cut them off after a thousand comments you know some agents some poor agent reading that would have no idea. And it's so far from accurate because what you said which is everybody's got their version of their business and it's going to mean different things to different people. So my advice always is what yours is which is you owe it to yourself to dig in and at least look at it right even if you decide to stay at your brokerage wherever it is you can be an independent. You can be a killer Williams You could be at Remax no matter where you are. I think the biggest mistake somebody would make and only get your take on it. It would be to be close minded and look up and go. I'm not even looking at it. This is not for me because I've seen people come back around. I've had people basically start out with a "I'm not interested. Not going to work for me" and we're starting to see them stop doing that. And then when they do look at it they join. I mean one of the guests I have coming up on the podcast is John Sterling you know. And he was a big deal within KW right. He supported numerous team leaders. He had relationships with hundreds and hundreds of OPs and team leaders and agents across the country. And once he dug into it he's like Oh my God I can't believe that I didn't dig into this before. And you know he recently and when I interview and you'll see and you know this you saw his post on Facebook that you know he's joined in. You know he's you know Jean and I are supporting him and he's going to come in and you know he sees the value as well so I was glad to hear you say that. Let's talk a little about your social media stuff your masterminds because I want agents to be able to get plugged in. It doesn't matter what the flag they fly. Brokerage wise. Right? You know you give back to the community you create a lot of value. You got a large Facebook group. You do masterminds you do in person stuff. So wouldn't you detail a little bit that out so that people if they want to get plugged into your world can. Kaufmann: You know the truth is is that I'm a big fan of people and relationships and those always trump company to me. And so while I do love EXP I did love Keller Williams didn't love either one more than I care about my relationships with people and one of those relationships is obviously my business partner Fred but also our good buddy Kody Gibson who runs a large large team over at Keller Williams and almost two years ago we just decided to start a Facebook group. We just want to start a mastermind online you know brand agnostic for people to come and share ideas best practices do webinars things like that. So we started a group it's now called the Next Level Agents about twenty 23000 maybe 24000 members in there and we just do our best to bring really good content to the real estate community regardless of brand. We try to keep it very brand agnostic and try not to get these two entities brokerage wars conversations that break out unfortunately you can't stop some people from saying my team is better than your team but that's another subject. But for the most part it's high level conversations right. We started putting together some live events like we did one in May this past Las Vegas called NLA Live. You go to NLALive.com you can kind of see the promo from last year or the highlights from last year as well as the information for next year's event where we just brought in speakers from all different companies different subjects and just said hey let's get back to the community today. And that's really what that's the essence of the brand of that group is let's get back and let's share best practices and help each other. Check us out on Facebook if you haven't already it's Next Level Agents. You can go to Facebook.com/groups/NextLevelAgents I believe it's how you can find it easy or just search it. Yeah. That's just kind of a project. You know we've got a mastermind event coming up this October in Portland which we're really excited about. We're looking to do one or two live events a year and so this will be obviously a little bit smaller than the Vegas event where we had a couple hundred people show up and next year we're expecting more like four to five hundred people in person plus the all of the live streams. So we'll just see it as an education platform and a platform to be able to communicate with the real estate community because that matters. This is a relationship business at the end of the day no matter what. And quite frankly if I'm representing a buyer or seller I could care less what brand has the listing or the other side of the transaction. I've got to make sure that a good relationship with the other party and we can get this deal done together in a win win scenario. Kevin : Fantastic. Obviously I have every guest give their contact information so that if somebody listen to this and they want to basically get in touch with you and talk about it. This is another thing that's not very transparent from the outside of you. We're all shareholders. We all want to provide best information. So Kevin give your contact information and basically you can reach out. Does it matter who introduced you to the EXP. We're all here as a resource. This man is me Jean. Kevin does it matter who it is John Sterling we're all here to get you the best available information so you can make a good decision. Kevin. How would they reach you. What's the best way. Kaufmann: Yeah. Best way is by email realestate@group4610.com just comes right to me and my business partner Fred another really good way is Facebook. You know Facebook Messenger is always a great way. Easiest way to find me. I'm sure there's more than one Kevin Kaufmann on Facebook. So if you got our Next Level Agents it be pretty easy to see who the admins of that group is connect with me that way. Facebook Messenger is always a really good way too and by all means reach out. We love referrals too. So Phoenix San Luis Obispo Denver Tucson Yuma Nashville. We definitely love real estate referrals. We sell a lot of real estate. We want to sell a lot more. Kevin : Fantastic. I appreciate you coming on the show any final thoughts before we drop off today. Kevin : Now you know I'm just I'm so excited to meet this company and be in business with my partners like Curtis Johnson and Walker and so many of the other that we are in business with here and looking forward to a very very bright future. All right great. Thanks for coming on the show.

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Episode 07: Tactical Training for Leaders Discussion of leadership engagement, tactical training for leaders, and leadership modeling. Bill Godfrey: Hello, and welcome to our next installment of our podcast series on active shooter incident management training. My name is Bill Godfrey, a retired fire chief, and one of the instructors for C3 Pathways. I'm your host today, and with me is Michelle Cook, also one of our instructors but recently retired from the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office after 26 years. Michelle retired as the director of patrol and enforcement, which in layman's terms, Michelle, basically you were the ops chief - Michelle Cook: I was chief, yes. Bill Godfrey: About 1,200 uniformed officers. Michelle Cook: Yes, sir, 1,200. Bill Godfrey: And now she is enjoying life. For the last year, she is the police chief of Atlantic Beach Police Department, a small, beach-side community, beautiful little area, with ...? Michelle Cook: 30 officers. Bill Godfrey: 30 officers. Michelle Cook: 30 total officers. Bill Godfrey: From 1,200 to 30. Michelle Cook: 30. Bill Godfrey: So something tells me we're going to be coming back to some stories there about the difference between large agencies and small agencies. But in this episode we are going to be talking about tactical training for leaders, both on the law enforcement side and the fire department side. Michelle, you've been on the job for 27 years so you were around when Columbine occurred in '99. And as we all have so often pointed to this kind of watershed moment of, "Wow. Things need to change here. We need to make an adjustment," give us a look back from your perspective on the changes that you've seen both in the tactical training for line officers, for patrol officers, and then also the training that went with that for leadership on the law enforcement side and how to manage these incidents differently. Michelle Cook: Sure. So Columbine happened in 1999 and in that year, and the previous couple of years prior to that, I was working part-time at the police training academy. So when Columbine happened, I was there when we evolved our tactics. We knew that, at that point, surrounding the building and calling the SWAT team was no longer going to work. People were dying because that was our strategy, and so we knew that wasn't going to work. So following Columbine a series of evolutions came out, tactical evolutions, that saw the introduction of contact teams. You know? First they were diamond shaped with five people inside, and then it went to three people, and we've evolved so far today that a lot of agencies are pushing the solo officer entry, if that is the best route for that officer at that moment, at that event. So tactics have definitely evolved since 1999, and they continue to evolve. Up until C3, what I haven't seen is the evolution of, "How do you manage these incidents or events?" So pre 1999, I'm a patrol supervisor on the street; an active shooter call goes out. I tell my officers, "Surround the building. Wait for SWAT." SWAT shows up. SWAT command does their thing; they take charge of the building. When tactics change for a patrol officer to make entry, we never trained the supervisors on how to lead or manage that entry. So as tactics have changed, leadership and management of these incidents and events hasn't evolved, and that's really where we have a training gap now. Bill Godfrey: It's interesting the way that you've put that. I think in a lot of ways, we have a very similar gap on the Fire-EMS side. Of course, the fire service has been using ICS for years, and in some ways that has grown a level of self-assured confidence that we can kind of manage or handle anything. And one of the things ... You know? You mentioned C3 beginning the work in this area quite a few years ago now. One of the things that led us to that was kind of the "whoops!" moment where we went, "Okay. The way we manage a fire applied to an active shooter event is not having the kind of outcome that we want, and we need to perhaps look at this and see if there aren't some things that are different." And of course, there were, and there are some things that we train to very, very differently on that front. It reminds me though ... You know? Sheriff Kevin Barry in one of our previous podcast episodes was talking about the challenges of being the chief, that the higher level leadership ... You know? You're inundated day to day ... And I remember this from my time too. You're inundated day to day with budget meetings, and paperwork, and HR issues, and purchasing stuff. It can be very difficult to say, "I'm going to take an entire day and go to training. I'm going to take a week and go to training and set that time aside." It's very easy to push it away. And Kevin was making the point that sometimes as a leader, you've just got to suck it up and get it done and recognize that it's a priority. Do you think that that is impacting, in a negative way, our ability to get leadership across the country prepared to manage one of these events? Michelle Cook: I think that's part of it. I think there's a couple of other things that are happening too. You know? We have the busy schedules. We also have this, "Well my guys will handle it. My guys will go in there and kill the bad guy, and my guys will handle it and it'll be taken care of," and what we've learned is active shooter incidents are much bigger now than just going in and killing the bad guy. And up until C3 Pathways, there was never a template of how to manage these incidents so that the tactics guys were knocking it out of the park with the evolution of how to go in there and mitigate the bad guy. What wasn't happening prior to C3 Pathways, there was nobody saying, "Hey, this is a way to manage it. Here's a template for you to use. This is how you, as leadership, can manage this large event that is going to expand very rapidly. And within minutes you're going to have hundreds of resources there." There never really existed a template for leadership so the combination of being really busy, passing the buck to your guys to handle it, and a template being out there, I think, all led us to where we have found ourselves, which is a lot of leaders have been caught on their heels, so to speak, not understanding what's happening or how to manage it. You know? I'm not going to point out any particular recent event but if you look at them as a whole, how many times did you hear on the radio we had line level officers, Fire-EMS trying to do their job and somebody in management was saying, "Well hold on. Wait a minute. Wait until I get there. You guys don't go in yet"? And that's because that leader failed to understand the tactics that were occurring, and failed to prepare themselves to manage those tactics. Bill Godfrey: That's a really interesting point. When you think about some of the exercises that both of us have done and been involved in, we've seen that occur just in exercises and training, where the command post ... And I've seen it happen on the medical side as well, in Fire-EMS. There's this challenge of, "When is the warm zone really warm?" or, "When is it warm enough?" and hesitation from the command post in wanting to let the rescue task force go downrange, or wanting to let them move downrange, and I always kind of found that interesting. Because you're trying to get your head wrapped around something that you can't directly see and observe, as opposed to the police officers that are already downrange who are saying, "We're ready for the medics. Send me the medics. Send the rescue task force." And they know what that means. They understand what they're asking for ... Michelle Cook: But the leadership doesn't. Bill Godfrey: Right. Michelle Cook: Because the leadership has not attended any training, looked into what their guys are actually practicing, or attended any training themselves. So if my guys are using terms downrange, and describing things that I've never heard before - warm zone, hot zone, cold zone, red, greens, casually collection points - if I don't know what those mean as a leader, the natural tendency is to say, "Well hold on, guys. I need to come look at this before I let anything happen." Bill Godfrey: "I need a minute." Michelle Cook: "I need a minute." Because, you know? You have to prepare the brain for the actual event. And if you as a leader have failed to prepare your brain for what can eventually happen, then you're going to get caught off guard. And that's the lapse that we're seeing. That's the, "Hold on, guys. Wait a minute. Wait till I get there," that we've seen in recent events, and unfortunately people die because of that. Bill Godfrey: And I think that's my frustration in trying to communicate the challenge sometimes. It's not about right or wrong. Michelle Cook: Correct. Bill Godfrey: It's not about right or wrong. It's not about, "There a right way to do this and a wrong way to do this," or even a best way. It's a question of the clock. You've got two things that are going to kill people: the bad guy and the clock. I mean, law enforcement, last 10 years - you can look at the numbers and look at the data - historically, putting the bad guy down very quickly. Michelle Cook: Correct. Bill Godfrey: That active threat is ending in minutes. It's very quick but yet we keep managing to fumble the opportunity to quickly get medical care in to patients, and then quickly get them transport. That's the other thing of this, is ... You know? It's not just enough to get the RTF downrange; we've got to get those patients out again. And so that whole hesitation from the command post that says, "Oh, I need a minute to get comfortable with this ..." Michelle Cook: Correct. Bill Godfrey: We're just burning clock. Michelle Cook: Sure. And we haven't trained with our counterparts on the Fire and EMS side. So not only have I not trained to the tactics that my guys are using and understood those, I haven't trained with the Fire-EMS guys. So when the guys downrange are talking about rescue task forces and I have an EMS person walking up, I don't know what they're talking about because I have failed to prepare myself. Bill Godfrey: I think the fire service as a whole ... EMS as well, but I think the fire service kind of takes the brunt of this. We've missed an opportunity to make it welcoming to the Incident Command System. You know? Between the fire service being very rigid- Michelle Cook: Sure. Bill Godfrey: Very rigid. Very black and white, very rigid, very dictatorial about how ICS is supposed to be, and have to do it this way and have to do it that way. Michelle Cook: And policemen think ICS is a bad word. Bill Godfrey: Yeah, exactly. Michelle Cook: Right? Bill Godfrey: Which is largely our fault, and FEMA played a part in that a little bit too. Somewhere along the lines, law enforcement, they not only think ICS is a bad thing, is a bad word, they think a tractor trailer full of paperwork is going to back up to your scene and dump 10 tons of paper on you scene. That's not what it's about at all, and I think we've got some work to do there, but I think even on the fire side, there are some gaps for us as well because the functions and the command posts in an active shooter event are very different than what they typically are in how you run a fire. In a fire, it is typically a fairly flat hierarchy. It's the, the battalion chief is in command, and he is directly ... All of the troops that he's directing are direct reports. We don't see a lot of these where there's a bunch of divisions and branches. It happens sometimes, but it's not very common, and the incident commander, as that battalion chief in that fire, is actually providing not just strategic directions but tactical direction. That doesn't work in an active shooter event. No, that tactical direction has got to come from the tactical and triage level- Michelle Cook: Who are at the scene. Bill Godfrey: -at the scene, at the edge of the warm zone, and the command post has a whole host of other issues that they've got to deal with and manage, and I think that from the fire side, there's just a failure to understand that not only do we need to implement those layers, but we really ... These things are a bottom up driven event. You have got to trust the eyes and the ears, and the judgment of the people down range and support what they're trying to accomplish rather than trying to dictate the tactics that they're going to execute. Michelle Cook: Sure. Sure, and that goes back to if you understand and train with the guys at the line level on what they're doing and what their competency is, and you have a trust in them, and you trust your fifth man, you trust that tactical person to be making those calls. If you're at the command post, and this is another interesting thing about police work, is in many cases, for years, the police command post has been at the scene, like on top of the scene. I know firemen are guilty of that as well, but the closer we can get to it, the better, and that's just not going to work here because if you trust your line level officers to be handling the job, and you trust your tactical to be working with triage and transport to get the injured off the scene, there's a whole host of things that need to be happening at the command level that you cannot do if you're in the weeds at the scene. But because we haven't trained on what's going on, we resort to what we know, which is getting back into the weeds. I've listened to audio clips where you have captains and police officers of higher rank trying to dictate line level tactics at the scene, and they're not even there. That's another kind of cultural change in the industry that we have to see. Bill Godfrey: Officers, you trust them with a gun and with bullets, and on the fire side, we're trusting the medics with drugs and a defibrillator and an advanced airway, but somehow, now all of a sudden, in this environment, we're hesitant to trust their judgment a little bit. It's interesting. Michelle Cook: Well, I'm not sure if it's hesitant to trust their judgment. I think we're hesitant because we don't know what they're doing, because we haven't been there to train ourselves. It goes back to, "Well, I'm too busy. My guys can handle that. It'll never happen here. I'll send my guys to the training." We've hosted several training events over the past year here, and I'm getting line level officers, which is great, but we're trying to teach incident management here and they're sending line level officers. I think it's hesitancy because they don't understand what's happening, and they're not prepared because they haven't engaged in training. Bill Godfrey: Meanwhile, the sergeants, lieutenants, captains are going to be the ones there that are going to be expected to put their arms around the thing and there's a gap. Michelle Cook: Sure. Sure. Bill Godfrey: So, given this gap that we've so eloquently discussed here, what's your short list? What are the things that a leader ... What's a modern day law enforcement leader need to know about managing an active shooter event? What's your short list? Michelle Cook: I think you have to research active shooter incident management. C3 Pathways is a way. For me, it makes sense. It works, so I think you, as a law enforcement leader, have to find some active shooter incident management training out there somewhere and you have to attend it. Don't send your people. You've got to go yourselves. I think you also need to attend active shooter tactical training that your officers attend. Number one so you understand it and number two, there's a chance, especially for somebody like me who works at a small agency, there is a chance that I could be a first responder, and so you have to understand what tactics you guys are training to so you don't muck it up the day of. I think those are probably the biggest things. Then, you've got to make nice with the firemen and EMS that work in the area. I think you've got to do that, and you've got to talk these concepts with them so that game day, everybody is on the same page. Bill Godfrey: If I were to have a short list on the fire/EMS side, similar in many ways, I think that leadership of fire/EMS needs to get to the training that the line people are taking. They need to see it, they need to understand it, they need to go through it and have the opportunity to ask some questions. I also think at the command post, they need to understand that where you normally in your role of leadership in the fire service are very tactically driven. You're very operational and hands-on, that in the command post, that's not going to be the role. That role is instead going to be handled down range by the tactical triage and transport officers that are operating at the edge of the warm zone, and that it has got to be a bottom up driven event. This idea, and I think the other piece of this, and they're kind of tied in together, is the idea of over-driving it, or what I'm going to call micromanagement from the command post has got to stop- Michelle Cook: Got to stop. Bill Godfrey: You've got to get that out of there, it's got no place, and then the other thing is this false security blanket of unified command is going to solve everything. We, of course, know you were part of the research that we did when we had some gaps that came up because of relying on that. If you stovepipe through the top and try to run everything operationally through the command post- Michelle Cook: It's not going to work. Bill Godfrey: -through unified command, it's not ... Well, in fairness, it's just not going to be fast. Michelle Cook: Right, it would be slow. Bill Godfrey: You'll get there. It's slow. Michelle Cook: Yes. Bill Godfrey: It's not going to get the job done quickly, and I think what has happened is we've confused, in the fire service, unified command, which is a very specific term with a very specific meaning, and as an old guy who was on the job when we invented it and added it to the ICS vernacular, it was developed to deal with this situation where more than one entity had a legal authority to be in charge of the incident, and we've confused the idea of unified command with what I think we really should be talking about, which is unified management. Up and down the food chain, we need to have line level law enforcement officers and line level medics that are trained and know how to work together on their teams, be it rescue task force or other functions. We need first level supervisors, sergeants, in some cases lieutenants too, or corporals or advanced level officers on the law enforcement side, and company officers on the fire and EMS side who understand the role of tactical triage or transport, and understand how that fits together. Then, the leadership, the executive level leadership, needs to understand that the role of the command post is to support those missions but also the much larger community impact, the messaging, if you're dealing with one of these- Michelle Cook: Sure. Bill Godfrey: -events at a school, you and I have had these conversations so many times. Michelle Cook: Sure. Bill Godfrey: It used to be you could wait 30 minutes before you started putting the message out. Your parents are going to be at these schools before your full response shows up. Michelle Cook: Sure, and I want to go back on something you just said. I was recently invited to a law enforcement panel discussion with the community, and there was probably about 100 citizens there. There was three law enforcement leaders there, including myself, and a citizen asked "If an active shooter happened at XYZ location, who has jurisdiction?" My response to that citizen was, "If we're all training together or working together, until the last injured person is transported off that property, it doesn't matter who has jurisdiction because we're all on the same team, and the team is there to stop the killing and stop the dying. Then we'll talk about who has investigative jurisdiction." I think that lends to the value of leadership training and leadership relationship building with those jurisdictions around you, both police, fire and EMS. Bill Godfrey: Fantastic point. Travis Cox, who you know, a lieutenant with Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, one of our other instructors on another episode, he made the point that if this comes to your hometown, it doesn't matter what patch is on your sleeve. It doesn't matter whether it's a law enforcement patch, a fire department patch, an ambulance patch, a hospital patch. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what jurisdiction. We are there to save lives, and we've got to work through all of that. The other point that he made that I thought was really very critical is that the ability to work together doesn't happen automatically. Michelle Cook: No. Bill Godfrey: You've got to make an effort. Michelle Cook: You have to make an effort, and as a leader of an organization, you have to lead by example. If you expect your line level guys up and down your chain to be making relationships with the other agencies around them the other officers around them. You as the leader need to be leading by example and they need to see you having conversations and training with both Fire, EMS and other police organizations. Bill Godfrey: Interesting. So I'm gonna come back to this size shift from the Jacksonville Sheriff's office of 1200 down to Atlantic Beach police Department of 30 officers. Michelle Cook: That's 30 including me. Bill Godfrey: 30 inclu ... well you know, we actually have had a number of active shooter events across the country where the police chief was one of the first ones in the door so you're right it's not unheard of but it does make me think. In law enforcement ... I mean across the country aren't most law enforcement agencies smaller agencies as opposed to these gigantic metro organizations? Michelle Cook: Absolutely, absolutely. Most ... about 90% of law enforcement agencies have 25 officers, 50 officers or less. So most are small and it's really recognizing that has really made me step up my tactical game because I understand that being one of five or six people who may be on duty during the day, there's a good chance that if something happens in my community or on one of the neighboring communities, I'm gonna be a first responder. Bill Godfrey: Interesting. So you are in what I would consider to be a very unique position to have the perspective from a large agency down to a small agency. We just talked about what was on your hit list of leadership training. For the chiefs of police, sheriff's of rural communities and the leadership at the larger ones. What do you think are the differences? So we talked about the things that you needed to hit but tell me a little bit about how that impacts the large agency versus the small agency. Am I asking that? You're giving me the puzzled look. On the scale of the leadership of these large agencies, what are the things that they need to focused on versus- Michelle Cook: Leadership of a smaller agency. Bill Godfrey: The leadership at a small agency. As you're moving down the scale and size, what are the differences and challenges? Michelle Cook: Well I think with the larger organizations you've got to stick with the tactical training and you have to make sure that your line level supervisors, sergeants, lieutenants, assistant chiefs or captains, whatever you have. All have both tactical training as well as management training, active shooter incident management training and can fill those roles. When I was at the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office being the number three in charge there was probably very little to any chance that I would ever be out and about near an active shooter scene in fact- Bill Godfrey: Did they even let you carry your gun back then? Michelle Cook: I got to carry my gun but I was usually 30 to 45 minutes away so all the good stuff had happened by the time I got there. So I was really more in the management lane so to speak on those. The smaller agencies, you got to know from top to bottom. I got to know everything from tactical ... being a contact team. First person in the building all the way to briefing the governor an hour later when he calls. So I've got to be prepared for all of that. Both the first responder role to the command role and everything in between and it's ... the training's a lot more fun 'cause you get to engage some more of the hands-on training but especially if you're in a rural area and you don't have a whole lot of resources you need to be on your A game, all the time. Because there is ... you're it, you're it and if you don't know how to respond that's gonna be a problem and if you don't know how to manage it. To me the problem is going to be worse because in Jacksonville if 600 policemen responded they worked for me. So they all knew my language, they all knew the codes, they all knew what to expect, they knew me. Something that happens out here in Atlanta beach, I've got probably six to 10 different agencies responding. They don't all know Michelle Cook so if I'm not making an effort to get out there and tell them what I expect in Atlantic Beach. Tell them how we're going to respond in Atlantic Beach and they understand what's gonna happen when they come into our jurisdiction then that adds to an already bad problem and I think you've seen that in a lot shootings. So many jurisdictions show up and they haven't trained together. So that is a problem that I think smaller, rural communities face is not only are a lot of resources coming but a lot of resources who have no idea what to expect are coming. Bill Godfrey: Interesting. So let me ask you this one from these different levels that you've been at from large to small. For your contemporaries out there on the law enforcement side, law enforcement leadership. What are the suggestions or tips that you would give them about working with their fire services EMS counterparts? How do they engage, cut through politics, budget talk, hard feelings left over from 20 years ago of XYZ thing. How do you get the job done? Michelle Cook: Persistence. We're very fortunate we have a fire station next door that is affiliated with the county not with the city and there are ... when I have a few minutes I walk over there and I start talking to them and I'm dealing with three different shifts so I got to hit them three times. I'll walk over there with diagrams, with a list of definitions and I'll just leave it on the table where they eat and hope they look at it. I invite them to every single training that we have and encourage them to come over even if they can only stay a few minutes. At least they're getting something out of it. And just persistence of, "hey guys" in fact this week they were watching the fire truck and I said, "Hey guys, what's the status of your body armor." And so they were talking about how their agency is gonna handle body armor so we had some conversation about well what if something happens out here at the beach? How are we gonna handle it? And so even those little informal touches I think all lend to the relationship. It doesn't have to be formal meetings. It can be, "Hey I'm gonna come sit down with you while you're eating, hey let's talk about this." But I think you have to be persistent about it. You can't let it go, it's so easy. It's so much easier to just let it go and think, "Okay it will never happen here." But I don't wanna be that guy who's named in an after-action report or who's face appears across national news as failed to do her job. And I don't wanna let the kids down, the people down, the community down or my agency down and I think that if you're not looking at this realistically. If you're not making any effort to address this at your level then you're letting your community down. I'll just be point blank about. You're letting the community you serve down by not preparing for this. Bill Godfrey: I think that's very well put. On the far side I think it's part of just going to have the conversation. Making a deliberate purposeful effort to say to the Police Chief or to the Sheriff or to the Commander or whoever you've got the relationship with. To open the door and say I really wanna talk about this. We need to talk about this some more and start small. You mention inviting them to training, I think anytime you can do joint training between law enforcement, fire EMS and include the dispatchers it's a game changer in getting things done but I think the other thing on the fire services, we also need to not overstep our area of expertise. Active shooter events are essentially a murder in progress. Michelle Cook: Absolutely. Bill Godfrey: And at no point is a fire department going to have legal authority to be in charge of a murder in progress. Not while somebody is trying to murder and while yes, we may be in charge of patient care. We can't do that patient care without access to the patients that is limited and controlled by law enforcement in an unsecured scene and certainly we're not gonna be in charge of the investigative stage. So I think a little bit of this, I don't wanna say, it's not so much a hat in hand approach but a knowing where we fit. That this is a type of incident where we are a supportive role. It's an important part of it but if we're going to save lives we have to work together. We might have the best medics in the world but if you can't physically get access to the patients because you haven't trained with you law enforcement officers, it isn't gonna do any good. Michelle Cook: Correct. Bill Godfrey: If you're transporting patients in the back of a police car there's not patient care going on in the back of that police car. Michelle Cook: Or you're taking them all to one hospital because we haven't prepared to manage this. Bill Godfrey: Exactly, exactly so I do think it is very much a two-way street but you make a really interesting point. Wow the time really flew by. Anything else that's on your mind that you wanna talk about as we wrap up here? Michelle Cook: ICS is not a bad word. No this has been good. I just ... I encourage police leaders. Make the effort, make the effort because lives depend on it. Bill Godfrey: Michelle thank you very much for taking the time to do this today. I look forward to the next one. Michelle Cook: Thank you. Original Source: https://www.c3pathways.com/podcast/tactical-training-for-leaders

How can you use marketing automation to deliver better leads to your sales reps AND boost trial-to-customer close rates for a SaaS business? This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, Accelo Head of Marketing Juan Parra talks about how his team used HubSpot to automate the bottom of the sales funnel and dramatically increase the number of free trial users who converted to paying customers on the Accelo platform. Listen to the podcast to get details on Juan's email workflow and insights you can use to automate the bottom of your own funnel. Transcript Kathleen Booth (host): Welcome back to The Inbound Success podcast. My name's Kathleen Booth and I'm your host. This week my guest is Juan Parra who is the Head of Marketing at Accelo. Welcome, Juan. Juan: Hi everybody. My name is Juan Para. I'm the Head of Marketing at Accelo and I'm very excited to be here. Juan and Kathleen recording this episode About Accelo Juan: If you haven't heard about Accelo, we're a service operations automation platform. That's a very fancy way of saying that we put all of the operational tools that you're using today in your AUT, in your law firm, it doesn't matter what type of service business it is, we put them under one roof. We were talking about your claim database, that's CRM, we're talking about sales, project management, customer service, retainer management, time tracking. Literally all of the components you're using today to do the operational part of your business, we put under one roof so you can have data first hand, in front of you and have a full view of what's happening. But more importantly, the main thing we look to help with is getting you organized and putting as much of your company on rails, so you can get back to doing the work you love. The reason we say that is because nobody gets into the business of becoming a creative agency to be handling invoices and billing. We do it because we're creative people and we like to do entertaining and creative stuff. After a while, it feels like you're doing more busy work and more admin work than the actual creative work that you wanted to do, and that's where Accelo comes in to actually help you organize, put everything in one place and help you be more profitable and ultimately grow your business. Kathleen: That's awesome, because I have worked in many a creative agency and one of the biggest pain points we've always had is what we use to call "tool proliferation" where we're jumping between all these software programs. Whenever you're in any business where you're essentially selling your time, every minute you spend on that is a minute that is losing you money, basically. Juan: Absolutely. One of the things that we like to say is, if you're an agency, you're inventory is time, and time is literally the most perishable inventory on earth. There's no way to get it back. Every minute that you lose is a minute that you're not billing for, it's a minute that you are literally losing money as an agency on your day-to-day work. Where Accelo comes in is let's get rid of, on average, you spending 5-7 minutes on 20 emails when half of those, or maybe more than that, can be automated because you're just notifying a client that "We moved on to the next step" or "We're almost ready to ship." Stuff like that. Technology exists to be able to solve that for you, and that's where we come in. That's where we can help you become more productive and ultimately make more profits. Kathleen: I'm curious. I'm familiar with Accelo because obviously I work in a marketing agency, and there it's a platform that's really tailor made in many respects for agencies, but you've mentioned some other industries. I think you mentioned law firms. Are there other service industries that you serve, or is it really any business that is selling time is a good fit for you? Juan: Any business that is selling time is a very good fit for us. The reason why we have an affinity towards digital agencies and digital marketing companies is because we were an agency ourselves. Like many agencies out there, we started building our own in-house platform to start fixing things. At one point we realized, there is an avenue and there is a space for this to grow. More than a product back then, we set ourselves to say "Why is it that there's no technology being created for us? There are great task management tools, there are great CRMs for sale, there great tools for a lot of different things that we did individually, but for us as a business, as an agency, there's nothing that exists out there, unless I have a hundred or two hundred thousand dollars to spend on a bunch of API integrations between a lot of platforms, or I can by SAP, or Oracle. I would never do that kind of thing." That's where we came in, and that's why we developed a platform for agencies. We have a lot of clients around the world that are, for example in the IT consulting arena, or managed service providers. We also work with a lot of business consulting as a whole. One trend that's very exciting for us that we've seen is that, normally it's not correlated to excitements it is on the accounting role. The accounting role is moving to this cloud global space that through technology they're now being able to service ... for example we have clients that are in New Zealand, but they serve clients in Australia, UK, and South Africa, and they can do that thanks to cloud software like Accelo that can help you have everything - it doesn't matter where in the world you are - you can have everything in one place. Kathleen: Yeah, that's great. I feel like there are so many industries that that applies to. Even within the marketing agency world where we're becoming very much virtual companies. When you want to have the best talent, your talent is all over. You hire them wherever they are. So, certainly something that I think could be applicable pretty broadly. Rebranding Accelo Kathleen: You are Head of Marketing for Accelo and you've been there for some time. It's interesting that the company is making this shift from being an agency to being a SaaS company. I'd love it if you could talk a little bit more about your thoughts for how you're going to market the company, and what you're seeing work really well for Accelo. Side note, as we get into that, there's a huge thunderstorm brewing here where I'm recording from, so if you hear big booms in the background, it's not that we're under attack, it's that there's a thunderstorm and we're just gonna roll with it, 'cause that's how we roll here. Juan: Absolutely. To address the question and to talk a little bit about the transition, when we first moved from the agency that we were into a SaaS platform years ago, our other name was Affinity Live and that was back when the cloud wasn't called the cloud yet, and Microsoft was doing a pitch on calling the cloud Live and they had everything Live, and Xbox live, and everything live, right? We made a gamble and added ... the product itself we called it Affinity then we added the word Live next to it so if it did pan out in that sense, we'd be well positioned for it. Now, years later we know that that was not true. A little over three and a half years ago we rebranded into Accelo. This was a little bit after I came into the company to start doing the marketing aspect of things. Going through the rebrand was a very exciting process for us, because it's a very different ballpark when you're doing branding for other companies, than when you're doing it for yourself. There are so many intricacies to the process. "How do we come up with a company name that represents us?" We had these values that we always think about like acceleration, how do we accelerate your business? That's where the beginning of the word Accelo comes from, right? Then how do we make it short enough that it's easily readable and people can understand it very quickly. From there we got the name ... how do we make it look like what it is? We work a bit in the product management arena, so our logo has five bars that represent the different parts of our products and they have different colors based on that. They also represent a Gantt chart and how a Gantt chart can move back and forwards. Lastly, it's also shaped like an arrow to help you move forward. These are all sentiments that we applied into the brand as a SaaS platform to really move us where we want to be, not just today but years from now as a brand. We did that and I think that so far it's been working really great. We have had tremendous success in the last couple years in terms of growth, and this is only the beginning for us, so we're very excited for what's to come. Kathleen: I love hearing those kinds of stories about rebranding because I think as a consumer you only see the end product of it, right? You see the name, you see the logo, most people don't even really give it much thought. It's funny, before I went into marketing I use to work as a consultant - this is super random - in the water utility space. I did public sector projects dealing with how you bring in private management of a water utility. One of the challenges we always had is that people don't understand why they need to pay for water because they think "Oh, it's raining, water comes out the tap." But they never think about what happens in between the rain falling and the water coming out the tap. It's very similar with branding because they just see "There's a name and a logo." It's fascinating to me to hear the process you went through, the thought process to get to it and the thoughtfulness that went into not just how you named it and what it meant and how it reflected on your core values, but also the actual structure of the logo itself. Thank you for sharing. Juan: There's so many stories that go alongside that logo and so many intricacies that I know people never noticed, but us as a brand and me as a marketer did pay attention to it. One example I always use is, if you look at our logo, the A on it, it's a lower case "a", and in the bottom of the A, that little circle that all lower case As have, we made ... it's not a full circle, we made a little indent on the top right side so it feels like the A is almost smiling. Check out the smiling "a"! ^^ It gives that different look to the word itself. I can show you later on at another time, the logo before and after we made that little minuscule change and you'll instantly see "Yeah. That makes sense. It actually looks good." Kathleen: Maybe we can put it in the show notes so people could see it. Juan: Yeah, absolutely. Those three things that, as marketers, we have to pay attention and make sure that we're always on the right track and doing what is going to take us to a growth path, if that makes sense. Kathleen: Yeah. You started with a rebranding, which it was funny you used the word "fun" to describe it, and I think it can be fun but I also think rebranding can be terrifying. You're changing the most fundamental aspects of the company. The name, the logo, all of it. It's almost like starting over. Having gone through that process and now that that's behind you and you're looking forward, you've had some time to engage in marketing since you've done the rebranding. I'd love to hear what's working well for you, and what are you gonna double down on and what do you see yourself doing more of going forward? Accelo's Marketing Strategy Juan: Part of the rebrand, and this is something that we haven't talked about yet, was that as a platform, as a SaaS company, as a software company ... software companies tend to get put into categories. You have all the different price matching softwares under one category, and all CRMs, and so on and so forth. For our type of software, there wasn't a category where we could fit in. We can fit into a lot of them because of the different parts of our product, but not one that encompassed the entire thing. As part of the rebrand we were also thinking "We need to come up with a category that makes sense." That's how we came up with service operations automations, or servops, which is what we've been doubling down in terms of evangelizing it and bringing other people to this category to develop software in this category. It's a category meant to service service businesses and agencies, and agencies obviously in front because of our nature, but all types of service businesses. The idea is "Let's start talking about this. Let's put our foot forward saying we need to develop software that is built with a very specific group in mind that has not been addressed." When we talk about time tracking, time tracking software is fascinating to me because time tracking is one of those rare softwares that have already done that in some sense. You have time trackers that are specific to law firms because the law says we need to be tracking up to the millisecond. Then there are other timers built for agencies that don't necessarily need to have those type of features, and so on and so forth. Let's keep doing that, but on a much larger scale, right? When it came to the brand, it was almost like two brand exercises at the same time, and how do they go together? But also how do they differentiate themselves, right? We don't want servops by no means to be a thing that's just about Accelo. There's an ecosystem around it that should encompass a bunch of other companies, and that's where we're doubling down. When it comes down to the brand itself and have we done what has worked, I think the most important thing that we've done for Accelo as a brand is humanizing it as much as possible, and making Accelo a brand that's about the user and not about the product. The way that we do that is not only in how we handle ourselves on a day-to-day basis like having our community being part of our roadmap planning, or having a large community that comes in to test at the beta level with any feature but also at the alpha level, so we can understand how are we doing developing things right or how are we developing them wrong? That's on the internal side. On the external side, like I had mentioned earlier, we have one purpose and that's getting you back to the work you love. When we enter into any discussion, whether it's through our content which one of our top blogs in this past couple weeks was meditation for project managers, right? That was a fun article for us to write because we do do a little bit of that in the office ourselves. Yeah, it sounds very much like a San Francisco, Kumbaya type of thing, but it actually helps us out on a daily basis. It also helps us reset our minds and helps us get into a work mode where we can actually be productive. Thinking about those things and not just saying "We're Accelo. We have project management, customer service, and sales and that's it," that's what's really helped us grow the brand and bring back that affinity which I love to say because it use to be our old brand and there's definitely a lot of it in us, towards our clients, towards the people that we service, towards the people that live on a day-to-day basis with the struggles. Automation can make it easy for you to do that, and because we understand that that's why we've developed time tracking tools within our product to be able to get rid of ultimately having people every Friday having to fill out time sheets. That's just one of the ways that we do it. Kathleen: First of all, I'm a meditator so it's not just a San Francisco thing. I'm deep in the East coast. What I love about what you described with that meditation example, is that what you've done is make the content more about the holistic needs of your audience, as opposed to their needs only as regards your product. I've interviewed a lot of different marketers for this podcast and some of the more compelling stories, I've heard ... I think the first one here talked about this was Stephanie Casstevens, who at the time was working for another company, but funny enough now works at IMPACT. When I interviewed her she was not working with me, and she talked about a case study of a really successful campaign where they were not able to see success until they stopped talking about what they were selling and talked about other things that their audience felt as pain points that had nothing to do with their product. It was the only way they could start a conversation and build a relationship. It sounds like that's the direction that you're heading in. Juan: Absolutely. I can tell you that years ago in our sales process, we also found exactly that. We use to have a sales process that was all about showing the product and demoing the product and saying "this is how this works, and this is how that works." When we changed it to having discovery in the beginning and saying "What's the problem that you're trying to solve?" - just asking that question, most people often come to us and say "The problem that I'm trying to solve is I need a better project management tool." And then we need to re-ask the same question: what is it that you're actually trying to solve? "Oh, we're disorganized." Alright let's talk about that a little bit. Why are you disorganized? Is it that you're dealing with a hundred different spreadsheets? Is it that you're working on a task management platform and you're trying to tie in data from another place? Getting into the actual root of the cause, and having that conversation has led us to a sales process where then it becomes a matter of, "alright, can you do all those things and solve the actual problem that we've now identified?" Yes you can. Alright, then let's go into negotiation, validation, negotiation process, and ever since we did that, the company has just skyrocketed in terms of sales, in terms of marketing - across the board - just overall growth because of that thoughtfulness towards the clients and the people that we service. Kathleen: I love what you just said, because I strongly believe, and I've been told by some of the mentors that I respect the most that very often the first answer you get - particularly when you're doing persona research, or audience research - the first answer you get is not the real answer. Unless you are willing to slow down and ask why, and continue drilling, you don't really get to the right answer. I think too many marketers don't do that. They just get these answers. They take them at face value and run with them, and unfortunately that leads us to spend a lot of time and effort creating content, creating marketing, that doesn't really resonate. Juan: Absolutely, and one fascinating thing is we've even seen our sales cycles reduce in time, because that first phone call takes longer, but then the rest of the process, it's actually quite shorter. Then we're going straight into the things that matter to you, and how are you gonna solve them? What are those "aha moments," KPIs, OKRs, however you want to call them that are actually gonna make an impact today in your business, and then how is it that automation is gonna make an impact today, and six months from now and a year from now, and what does that roadmap look like, right? Having that conversation then has most definitely turned into having, bringing, onboarding a lot of really, really good clients into Accelo. Kathleen: It's that old concept of you've gotta slow down to speed up, right? Juan: Yeah, absolutely. Automating the Bottom of the Funnel Kathleen: So, one of the interesting things that you shared with me, that I wanna make sure we talk about, is that you've had a lot of success with what I would term, automating the bottom of the funnel. Tell me a little bit more about that. Juan: So, I guess to begin with, at Accelo, sales and marketing have always been one entity instead of being two siloed entities. We've always operated, one, together, and second, side-by-side. Because we were just built that way naturally, we found ourselves using sales updates and our marketing process and then marketing tactics in our sales process, and at some point we realized that we could benefit each other. The way that we do that is, for example, when a client starts a trial at Accelo.com - let's add that app in there - the system recognizes that lead coming in. There is a system in place to see what type of lead that person is, and who the is the right person to work with that lead. Once that's identified, then there is an entire marketing campaign strategy around that lead to serve them with the content that's necessary for, that we've identified is going to help them through this process. We, at a very basic level, start with an email sequence that then helps the user book demos with our AEs automatically without even having to jump into a phone call. Through the use of technology, people click on a link and there the calendar of the AE shows up and they can just book a meeting right then and there. There are two things that we found with that. One is, the AEs love it because they come into the office and their day's already pre-filled with demos they need to make and sales that they need to work. More importantly, it has helped us reframe that initial conversation. The moment that the user clicks on that link and books a time in the calendar, that's a meeting that was set up by the user, not by Accelo. When the conversation actually starts, the user actually feels responsible for that conversation happening, and that sets us as a brand and as a company in a much better place to explain what Accelo is, how it can help you, and ultimately for a much smoother sales process. Kathleen: So this is all getting kicked off by an interested potential customer who comes to your website and clicks "book a demo," and that's what triggers this process? Juan: So, they start a trial. We don't have a "book a demo" button, we have a 14 day trial they can start. They get in, and they start playing with it. While they're playing with it, automatically, in the background, we use HubSpot for most of our workflow automation, plus other plugins. While the person is playing with it, they get a welcome email from our CEO, bringing them in, asking them, "hey, what is-" even from that first email we start humanizing the process by saying that our CEO is asking them, "how can I help you. What is it that you're actually trying to solve? Let's start that conversation." Within a couple minutes, they receive an email from the pertinent AE directly, saying, "Hey I'm here to help you out. Let me know how I can assist you. If you're interested in getting into the weeds and having a more in-depth conversation, click here and book a demo." That all happens automatically. The AE doesn't necessarily do anything on his behalf, other than seeing that it pops up in his Accelo profile, and then from there he can work that lead, do the research, so on and so forth. Kathleen: So the AE's are your Account Executives? Is that right? Juan: Account Executives, sorry, yes. Kathleen: Okay. What is the frequency of the touch points you're having in this automated sequence? Juan: So we have email, and the first email from the AE on day one. From there, depending on how much interaction has been happening, the next email will happen within the next two or three days. The longest period that it will hold will be three days. After day three an email will go out. Then, after that, we have a cadence that we have, kind of like master for ourselves, it's anywhere between two or three days throughout a 14 day period. It's definitely a cadence that we have tested and works very well for us, but I also mentor a couple other companies, and while they've implemented this, they've seen that a much different cadence for their audience works better. When it comes to cadence, it's always in my mind, you start with something basic every two days or every three days, and then from there you start tweaking to see how people respond. Kathleen: Okay, so cadence depends on audience. It depends on testing. You need to play around with it and see what's right for you. You mentioned 14 days. Is that the duration of the free trial? Juan: That is the duration of the free trial. I think more importantly than the cadence is the content that these emails have, I think it's important for us to realize that not every email we send to our users should be trying to drive a demo. That's something that I see on my inbox every single day; a person that has been trying to get in touch with me and, for some reason I've either not been able to reply or I've put it on my- need to do this a little bit later. I all the sudden have three other emails with the same call to action, "let's book a demo! Let's book a demo! Let's do a call! Let's do a call!" As part of our cadence, we understand that that's not necessarily the best process for people. If by email three, that person hasn't booked a demo, most likely that person is not interested in booking a demo, but that doesn't mean that person is not interested in your platform, so let's get them tools to play more in the platform. At some point, if we know that they spent x amount of time using our software, they're gonna have questions, and most likely they're gonna end up booking a demo at some point. It's about framing those calls to action through that cadence. The reason why I bring this up is because by the end of the 14 day process where we realize, "alright, clearly this person does not want to have a conversation for x or y reason"- to us, that doesn't necessarily mean that the sale is dead, or that that lead is dead. So, a week after that 14 day process happens, we send yet another email asking them, "Hey, here's a brief survey. Three questions on why did you decide to leave, or why did you decide to not continue with the process or not talk to our team?" What's fascinating is that people who have not replied, only opened one or two emails - that's the one email that they always end up replying. They give us a very straight reason, then that for us then informs our sales process. It also informs the content that we were putting in those emails before. It informs the conversations that are happening. It informs the onboarding process. I can't tell you how many things the response to that particular email has impacted in our sales funnel, in our marketing funnel, and in our product development itself. How do we showcase the best parts of Accelo at the most pertinent time, and so on so forth. That's why even if that person never buys, that doesn't mean that that person doesn't send data that's relevant to you, and if you can access that then that's gonna make you a better marketer, a better salesperson, and a better company as a whole. Kathleen: It's interesting you say that that's the email that everyone responds to, because I feel like it's the equivalent of the sales breakup email. I used to be in a sales role at IMPACT, and man, breakup emails are incredibly effective! I guess for anyone listening, if you don't know what a breakup email is, that's basically when you've tried three, four, however many times and you're not getting a response. You write and say, "This is the last time I'm gonna email you," or "I guess you're not interested," or whatever your message is. Juan: We do have a breakup email on the 14 day plan. That's the last email where we say, "I know you're not interested, but, by any chance if you still are, click here and you can extend your trial." That's kind of like the last call to action within that breakup email, and the email that goes out a week later, that's actually an email that comes again from the CEO, so the two emails that are coming from the CEO is the welcome and the "why didn't you want us?" basically. They always get a good amount of response. Kathleen: Now, when you send your breakup email, what percentage of recipients opt to extend their trial? Juan: We're seeing that about ten to fifteen percent of people opt to extend their trial. What's even more fascinating is that out of those ten to fifteen people that end up extending the trial, a very high number then end up converting or going through an in-depth sales process. It's a very low number that extends the trial and then nothing happens. The key here is, it doesn't matter how you do it, invoke action. Invoke action whether it's through booking a demo, through doing more stuff in your platform, through extending the trial. The moment that you invoke at least one action, that's the moment that then you can actually kick off a good sales process. Kathleen: Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that the people that extend the trials convert at a higher rate, because I know at least myself, I'm busy, my inbox is flooded, and so I will sign up for trials and then forget or run out of time. You get that last email with the offer to extend, and it's like, "Oh, thank goodness! Time has flown by and I didn't realize my trial was ending." Anybody who's gonna bother to extend at that point, usually I would think would have pretty good intent. When did you put this automation sequence in place? How long has it been running? Juan: So we've had this automation sequence for about two years. In those two years we've run a little bit over three hundred experiments on the emails themselves, whether it's through the subject line, the cadence, the signature, what to put underneath the signature. One, we've seen obviously a growth in response rates with that sort of experimentation, but we've also seen that people, if you start an email with a suggestion of what to do next, and then put the actual call to action, people are more reactive to that and end up saying, "alright, let me try it, and by the way, I might as well try it with you on the phone so you can tell me if I'm doing things right or wrong." So, those are the sort of things that have helped that automation really work and really drive more demos and increase our sales. Kathleen: Have you been able to collect any data - before and after data - as far as how putting this automation sequence in place has impacted your, I guess it's really your trial to customer close rates? Juan: So, when we first implemented this, what we wanted to improve was our trial to demo rates. What we see was, we almost doubled the amount of demo rates. That's how big the difference was. The one thing that we can attribute it to is that by no means did it have anything to do with the content that the sales guys were necessarily sending. The quantity of leads that we were bringing in, it was just too much for the sales team that we had back then. It is still today. For them to manage each one of those sales individually with the amount of care, with the right timing, with all the different factors that come into making an email successful - that's where bridging the gap between marketing and sales becomes important. I've seen sales teams now that have a team that's dedicated to just doing this, but for small and medium businesses, or start-ups like us that are very much going, but are not quite that big, then we can do that. We send marketing emails on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, so we're testing. That's our bread and butter, so why not use the same tools that we're using for marketing to help the sales team out? We did that and it's just been success after success. Kathleen: Hopefully if you scale and you do really get quite large, what I think is so smart is that you've put a system in place that will completely grow with you. That automation, it can really help you save time, and I would think, my guess at least is that it would make understanding when you need to hire additional AE's a much simpler equation. We call them "BOFU requests" - bottom of the funnel requests- and as you see that number increase, it becomes fairly simple to calculate: this is the number that any given AE can handle, so feed that number with our existing AE's, we've gotta hire another one. Juan: So, we have on our weekly reporting, we have that and we measure what's the health of each one of the pipelines, obviously, but more, how much is being touched and how much is not being touched for x, y, and z reason, and then based on that we make hiring decisions, not just for the sales team, but also for the marketing team, because as the team grows, it needs more nooks and crannies and the workflow needs to be adapted, and the workflow needs to change, and that requires time, it requires effort, and it requires man power. It has not only helped us learn what should our hiring numbers be on the sale side, but also on the marketing side. Kathleen: Yeah, that's great. Well, what I like about this is that it's a fairly straightforward solution that any company can implement. I mean, you obviously need some kind of marketing automation platform. It sounds like you're using HubSpot for this. Juan: Correct. When we started, we didn't start out with HubSpot. We actually started with another platform called AutoPilot. They're very, very good at doing email workflows, and making visuals so it's easy for you to use. That's another tool that I highly recommend. Autopilot, we started with it, and it was amazing. Like that, there's plenty of other platforms out there that can help you make simple workflows, that can then lead you into this type of process. The question is, when looking at any tool is, how are you going to be able to connect the data, right? That's where our automation makes it all simple, and easy. When you have an automated platform like Excel, for example, or like HubSpot, all the data's already there so you can tell HubSpot, "Hey. Don't send this email when the sales already interacted with this person." Those are the little things that are very, very important and that you need to get right. If you send two emails on the same day to one lead, that lead most likely is gonna be dead within a day or two. They're not gonna respond. They're like, "You guys don't have your stuff together." That impacts the reputation of the business obviously. There's definitely a good amount of tweaking that needs to be done. By no means is this hard. By no means is this overly complicated. It's actually a very simple workflow that can help you grow your sales. Kathleen: Yeah. I think that's one of the biggest mistakes we as marketers make, is to have a bunch of different workflows running in the background or email automation sequences or whatever you want to call them. To not have a system for tracking and controlling how much email a given recipient is getting within a certain amount of time. Juan: I absolutely loved that you used the word "system." I do speaking engagements now. It feels like it's almost weekly. What I tell the audience is, "When you're looking at this organization, where you have a bunch of different tools not speaking to each other, when you have teams not necessarily speaking to each other, what you need to put in place is a system." That system can be as simple as sitting down and saying, "How does a customer lifecycle actually work and where do all the different nooks and crannies come in? Where everything fits in." Then based on that, start creating workflows for that. Going in deep in an actual workflow of a project and what are the different things that need to tie into a project? Normally people think, "Well I need a PM, I need the people that are going to be doing the work and that." It's actually more than that. You need a lot of admin work, for example, time tracking. How do you know that a project is on budget at any given moment? Most companies call their CFO and say, "Hey can you run the numbers?" And a week later they get the numbers but the problem is, that project is already over budget, and most likely they're gonna lose money. That's why putting systems in place can help us fix that, can help us not go out of budget or not run out of time if you're running on retainers and stuff like that. Kathleen: I couldn't agree more. Juan: Yeah. Kathleen: It's easy to get it all mixed up when you've got a million different platforms you're working off of. That is also the business case for somebody to get Accelo - so that they have fewer platforms. Juan: Absolutely. I ask people, "If you opened your computer right now, how many tabs do you have open in your browser?" I can tell you that, on average, people say 10 out of the top of their head. Most likely it's probably gonna be 15 or 16. Then I ask them, "Out of those 10 tabs that you have open, how many of those tabs are actually going towards the work that you're doing? How many are going to the tracking process? The operational part of things?" People think about it for a second and say, "I guess, like six of those tabs are just all the tools that I'm using." Then three or four are for the work that they're actually doing. We can fix that just by decluttering your browser and your working environment. That, by itself, can help you be more efficient. If you're more efficient, you can work more billable hours in the same amount of time. It's not like I'm saying, "Now because you're more efficient you can work 10 hours a day." Within the same, let's say eight hours of a day, you used to be four hours of actual work and then four hours doing the rest. Well, if I can give you one more hour, that's one more billable hour that you can make money out of. Kathleen: It's funny, when you said, "How many tabs do you have open?" I immediately looked at my browser. Then I had to laugh 'cause I was like, "Well, I guess the first question should be how many browser windows do you have open?" Because I have two screens and I know some people who have three. It's like, I have X number or tabs times X number of browsers. It's crazy, it's nuts. No wonder we have trouble focusing and getting stuff done! Juan: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Kathleen: I want to make sure I ask you my favorite two questions before we wrap up today. Kathleen's Two Questions Kathleen: The first one is, you work with a lot of creative agencies and a lot of other different companies and you're speaking at a lot of conferences. I'm sure you're seeing some great examples of marketing. Company or individual, who do you think is doing inbound marketing really well today? Juan: I think individual, I think both in different scenarios, but individual is ... To me takes the prize. The reason for that is because the adaptability, the pace that they're able to do the experimentation, and the adjustments for any type of campaign, any type of advertising process to actually work and be efficient. As companies as we grow, because of how the nature of how businesses are, things tend to start slow down a little bit. One example for us, as a brand, while we have by no means slowed down we have always taken the pride of being ahead of the game when it comes to keywords that we're bidding for. Things as simple as that. We normally see the competition coming right after us. That gap is becoming smaller and smaller. That's something, that us as a business need to build in. That's where automation internally ... The main reason why we are able to stay ahead is, we've already been running on automation for the last couple years. That's how we're being able to beat the competition. Now that the competition's taking automation into all different places, that gap is becoming shorter. That in itself makes us have to combat different things at different times. As individuals we can focus, we can work faster, we can experiment more, and ultimately be more efficient. Kathleen: Any specific individual marketers out there who you think are really crushing it these days? Anyone come to mind? Juan: I have a lot. I have ... It's hard to come up with one individual name. Kathleen: Is this like asking you to pick your favorite child? Juan: No, for me it's like asking me to pick my favorite friend. Then I'm gonna get a bunch of emails of friends say, "Hey!"- Kathleen: How about name three? Juan: Top of my head I can't come up with names. Kathleen: All right, all right, I'll give you a pass on this one. The other question I have is with digital marketing changing so quickly, how do you personally stay educated and up to date? Are there particular sources of information or places where you go when you want to learn? Juan: Me personally, I have the advantage that I'm at conferences all the time. I'm able to sneak into presentations all the time and see what's being talked about. Definitely finding good conferences. By conferences I don't mean huge 10,000 HubSpot INBOUND conferences, but conferences like the Digital Summit series that's very specific about the topics that are being talked about in a day and a half conference. IMPACT live, that talks about very specific topics, when it comes to digital marketing. Those then become really, really, helpful in my learning process. I'm also an avid reader. I read at least two books every week, week and a half. By books I don't mean 500 page books. I've actually taken a lot of affinity towards reading the Harvard Business Review, and little books that they sell at airports. Kathleen: Yeah. Juan: That's a combination of essays. They now have a full marketing series on product marketing, digital marketing, on strategic marketing, on content. I love those because they give me very fast, and very good insights and tricks and tips that I can start putting in practice fast. The last thing is, like I mentioned a little bit earlier, I do a good amount of mentorship with other businesses, other start-ups that are growing. It is fascinating to hear them out with the crazy ideas they come up with because, most likely, the people who start the start-ups are not marketers. They're just business people that are trying to grow their business. To me, that type of individual can be just as good or better than traditional marketers. They're forced to think out of the box because they don't have a tool kit to start off of. I feed off of that energy. Obviously I have my marketing background and my marketing experience that I use first and foremost. That's what gets me started, but then how do I become different? Is by fueling myself with all these conversations with start-ups, with people who are not necessarily marketers but are put in positions that need to work and create campaigns, and so on and so forth. I tell them, "Hey, you have this landing page. Do you want to experiment like this or like that?" I try, as much as I can, to not tell them exactly what to do but let them figure it out themselves. Then it's amazing to see the work they come up with. Then based on that, then I'm like, "Hmmm, I hadn't thought about that. I can absolutely use that." Kathleen: Sometimes I think, as marketers, we're our own worst enemies because we are used to following certain playbooks. I totally agree. I have few start-ups that I work with too. It sometimes takes somebody who's not in it everyday to bring that fresh thinking. That's such a great thing to get exposed to. Juan: Absolutely. Kathleen: Plus it's just fun helping little companies grow. I don't know, I spent 11 years as a business owner so I love working with start-ups. It's just ... It's exciting. Juan: Me too, me too, it's the one thing ... I mean, I wake up every morning thinking about Accelo and then, after I'm done with Accelo, the first thing I think is, "All these guys that I'm helping, or girls that I'm helping, develop themselves to being entrepreneurs or that are already entrepreneurs but are trying to solve this new market to attack. And so on and so forth." I think that, one, it's exciting. Second, it also brings new challenges and different challenges to my day-to-day work. As an ecosystem for myself, I think, one, it works very well and second, it just keeps me refreshed all the time. Kathleen: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. How to Get in Touch with Juan Kathleen: Well, so much good stuff today. If somebody wants to reach out and ask you a question or learn more about what you've talked about. What's the best way for them to find you online? Juan: Yeah, absolutely. You can find me on twitter at JCParra, P-A-double R-A. You can find me on LinkedIn as Juan Carlos Parra. You can also send me an email. My email is juan.parra@accelo.com. Kathleen: Oh I love to hear you roll your Rs. I lived for a time in Spain. I speak a little Spanish but I always love hearing that accent. Juan: Yeah. You know what's funny? I'm from Puerto Rico and I grew up in Puerto Rico and right now I'm saying Puerto Rico instead of Puerto Rico, right? Kathleen: Puerto Rico. Juan: A bunch of times, it just happens automatically, I might not roll one R but then roll on the second word or something like that. I stumble myself through rolling the Rs myself. Kathleen: I love the sound of it. Juan: I try as much as I can to not do that so ... Kathleen: No don't try that. Keep in on. I'm gonna put links to the different contact points you mentioned in the show notes so if anybody does want to reach you check the show notes out. Those will be in there and hopefully I will have a before and after of the Accelo logo to share as well. Juan: Yeah. I'll get you that. Kathleen: Yes! If you are listening and you found some value here, I would really appreciate it if you would consider giving the podcast a review. On iTunes or Stitcher or the platform of your choice. That helps a lot. Helps us get found by more folks. Builds the community. If you have a minute and you've been listening and you like it, please, please leave a review. If you know somebody doing kick ass inbound marketing work, Tweet me at work mommywork because I would love to interview them. That's it for this week. Thanks Juan. Juan: Thank you.

Great World Cup Dives (Feat. Neymar of Brazil)A list of the best LA Donut ShopsDon’t Think TwiceDir. Mike BirbigliaCasting Dir. Jessica Kelly, Kate GellerWatch the TrailerLady BirdDir. Greta GerwigCasting Dir. Heidi Giffiths, Allison Jones, Jordan ThalerWatch the TrailerDid Stanley Kubrick try to break up Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman's Marriage?“Was ‘Eyes Wide Shut’ merely an elaborate, expensive way for Stanley Kubrick to toy with Tom Cruise?”“Nicole Kidman Admits That Stanley Kubrick Based 'Eyes Wide Shut' On Her Marriage With Tom Cruise”P.S. We have no idea if these articles are legit...PETA Abuse HotlineCharlie Smallman, the new producer of I Guess We’ll Do It That Way and Olive, the runner up. Charlie is the bigger oneDrake’s New Album, ScorpionDrake’s Rant to the haters Which some people say is complete a joke. Who knows.Euro Stepping Explained (Finally)Lance Stephenson, “A garbage pail kid”Lance Stephenson Blows Carbon Dioxide in Lebron’s EarLance vs. Lebron CompilationFollow Nate Drexler on Twitter // @NateDrexPopulation of Iceland: 334,000 Official Rules about World Cup NationalityCredits and Personal Links:A Mama Bear Studios Production // Mama Bear Studios WebsiteProduced and Edited by: Isaiah SmallmanExecutive Producer: Jon SchimpfOpening music: "The Get Down," Produced by Summer DregsOutro music: Composed and Recorded by Tom Paulus and Max BelzCover Art by: Nate GiordanoShow Website | ThatWay.fmShow Twitter | @ThatWayPodJon TwitterIsaiah InstagramIsaiah IMDBIsaiah’s Twitter (which he never uses)Isaiah LinkedInTRANSCRIPT (Probably a mess)so I have to pay is this a a small man you're listening to I guess we'll do it that way podcast right call my buddy John each week to check in on my progress as a direct my first feature film Senate by mama bear studios mama there's mission is to create entertaining works of art that explore he made it alright hears of the so to Hey Johnny mayor living it up in the city my man here in New York are you I am indeed the city that never sleeps the Big Apple the big easy those are not the same places very very different places vague the New York is the least easy place I've ever heard of in my entire life people are meeting New York I mean I love I love New York but they're they're mean they're mean to you of old because they smell my fear they see your weekend they're trying to weed you out of me food that is it is there yeah yeah a works works like a charm how do people respond to you I'm toting around little junior so the reception is always great there like I yes more people that we can corrupt from the young age just impressed you know anytime you see a kid doing something difficult like if you were hiking up a mountain and there were a ten year old next you trying his hardest to do it you be impressed and the same sort of thing happens here in old grizzled New Yorker sees a ten and a six year old hoofing it down the street right and he he says feel some mutual respect for that kid and as soon as I must be a good guy that I bred them to be this way but whatever I wasn't really know is that they're just walking because of the threat of spanks O. so they're terrified I had a I had a real New York moment the other day actually I was crossing the street because I kind of live in the city I mean I I live in the city it's right city it's the city and I was walking to get it done not with my uncle who is visiting %HESITATION LA is big downtown unlike New York that's one major bonus every New York there's not a Dunkin donuts in sight it's all local places that mostly also sell Lotto tickets and %HESITATION you know Chinese food or burgers but their donuts are good these are help homemade doughnuts very delicious homemade donuts I mean kind of in the classic style of a Dunkin donuts they're not like their fancy done it's too button for the most part that the other they're pretty basic pretty basic style raised fried doughnuts and they are bang in how to the top them %HESITATION any any way you want but I'm kind of a classic I like I like glazed I like %HESITATION glaze twist like Bavarian cream with chocolate %HESITATION yeah I'm pretty to I'm a pretty straight straight down the middle guy as long as the quality of the day I was there do you have any apprehension about eating a doughnut and public zero so you get these donuts also you get six doughnuts twelve donuts you'll walk out of Kelly's donut shop Sally's donut shop and there's a bench outside and people are sitting out there in donuts you'll join them you'll sit out there and you'll eat it down out in front of everybody %HESITATION hundred percent you get some custard on your face a little powdered sugar in your beard you're not afraid I was wondering if your worry I was a I was wondering if the root of that question was more that like some some donuts are sort of phallic in shape this says a lot about your personality in your file your private mental life and I'm still kind of working through some repressed feelings apparently towards donuts mainly no I mean the shame of getting sugar and Greece so I get that and I get that %HESITATION I mean it's kind of a car town so you honestly I take my daughter back to my car and eat in the car yeah is there shame involved here I mean usually the first one I feel fine and then once I've gone I've left got on the interstate turned around and come back for the fourth time to get another Donna that's usually when I start feeling some shame you think any director casting director has ever asked an actor to eat a doughnut in front of them just to see how they eat it down at the role requires you eating a doughnut so safe here and the defenses of that not having happened are the same as the chances that someone hasn't climbed a palm tree naked and take any **** from the top in Los Angeles I've done that so there we go out then I think it's pretty safe to say that someone has asked a someone in casting session to you don't have you ever seen someone eat it down and a casting session I've never now I've ever asked I should though but then again if there's a role involves eating it done and I'm casting myself we're here in town I were you I would pay you to get that role how much would you pay me a dollar fifty better rice with down to three Bucks yeah the price of a fancy Dona yeah I think that seems reasonable so last time we talked we were gonna go real quick I want to tell you I want to tell you my New York moment %HESITATION yet hit me so I was walking down the street to go get it done out right now and a guy in a cab which made it even more of a New York minute because there's not that many cabs in LA again handicap I'm crossing the crosswalk heat big dumb dumb pulls away too far on the interstate intersection any start backing up over me and my dogs he literally almost ran me over and I started banging on his hood and I was like dude what are you doing you don't back up in the middle of a crosswalk that's like number one rule of driving everyone knows that anyway it was a pretty classic New York moment there was a guy walking in there that's kind of how did you resolve that situation I was like get your **** together your professional driver and I walked it was just a yellow cab like a typical taxi cab resident who were left yeah yeah I expect this kind of the S. from a left no it was a yellow cab this guy is like supposed to be a true professional I was ticked I think a lot of people in that situation let the car hit them and sue I think I should have done it I coulda made rollers even bigger could be huge right now I should have made sure that my neck was very very staff you have some acting experience so you could really pull this off that was a major missed opportunity could sell a hand this is a bummer I'm gonna go find another cab we sat down and watched a few minutes of the World Cup which is %HESITATION it's excellent soccer and excellent acting I know I feel like you really can't play at that level as you were terrific actor these guys flop rubbing their muscles screaming five minutes later they're kicking goals and I mean it's unreal well and honestly to these guys are so strong I mean eat it took to play at that level for ninety consecutive minutes your muscles are so resilient they they you know I mean they are not going to get hurt that easily but I I mean Hey like this is a game it's not without it's not outside the rules you got to do everything we possibly can to win to take a break to you know get somebody else Yellowcard whatever it's got to be what's funny is that the refs don't put an end to it yeah they reward this behavior feels like they should have a panel up without score cards to put up the for how well that player and then when the film instead of penalty kicks a precisely acting points yeah I like that %HESITATION cool we should pray reintroduce the show because I'm sure everyone's already forgotten about it %HESITATION this is I guess we'll do it that way a show where I I say a call you Johnny there once a week to talk about the making of rollers among many other things as you probably already know John where did we leave off last week who knows it's been an entire week I think we decided that we were going to end up talking today about casting directors which incidentally has already sort of come up that's very true casting directors oh yeah because this week that was kind of the next big big thing for me wall what's happened this I mean honestly if not much is happening as we are now I think this is gonna be recover occurring theme no it actually some stuff started to come together this morning tele minutes minutes before we start recording no I think this is this is probably a good time to address it though that is going to be a recurring theme of this podcast for sure I think we can change that the theme of the theme of things not happening as quickly as I want them to but you're right maybe we can change it you need to change it maybe this will spur you on ten make more content by causing drama you know yeah tell some actors that they got the job in column back in town they didn't get the job who would see some heartache some drama John you should be a producer I like the way you think it's because I sound like Weinstein now earn a you don't sound rape you to sound smart keep manipulative so yeah so basically the casting director %HESITATION I'm not gonna drop any names because she has not attach yourself yet but got a very positive email back we're going back and forth we're kind of talking about you know the size and scope and type of the project and what my expectations are in the woman I'm talking to a super super cool and %HESITATION yeah I hope she hopes she gets excited about the project wants to do it she read it last week so %HESITATION but she's traveling so we're just kinda emailing at this point we might we might end up on the phone later today so I might actually have a more exciting update next week **** hole but I might have had on a promise everybody how did you even get hooked up with this person in the first place that is good question okay you know I started going through a lot of decent sized in the movies that I've liked from the last X. number of years five six three names three names three names of casting directors now of movies all movies okay one that I really like don't think twice he seen that one might perfectly it's about an improv troupe in New York now it's really really good it's okay so part of the reason that was interesting to me is it's very funny but it's very dramatic it's a little dark %HESITATION that is something that I think homely I'm trying to achieve with rollers and so I looked at that I was like boom that movies freaking great who brought all those people together well I'm assuming maker Biglia had a lot to do with it but at the same time I'm sure the casting director had a lot to do with it %HESITATION another one would be labor from last year GC labor now John we gotta get you in more movies and now if John doesn't even like movies %HESITATION herbal I've heard lady bird is good I've heard of Burr Biglia because he'd this is on NPR all the time who are used to be I don't even know that he was one of the city is a really great comedian %HESITATION you should look up the stuff he's he's amazing I'll link to some of his his definition of it's we know Mike listen so Hey Mike Mikey boy he our to our to listeners we are now up to we've got teddy Bronson of Wisconsin and Mikey bored labor big cleo from right here in New York City yeah baby I think does live in New York I think I heard an interview with him or that you want to go track them down I'm already working on it he's probably busy listening to our podcast so you know it's at home he sleep walking around the city mmhm nice reference I like so he but here's the real question so you have a movie you say okay this is of similar size as to what I'm making and you look at the credits and you find the casting director but you said earlier find a casting director who I like and I think most people out there like how would you know if what they did was good or not don't they aren't they really just going out and saying who can we get in our price range for this type of movie and they're just basically selecting the people who say yes I think that's a good yeah that's a really good question I hate I think it probably really depends on the type of project I think it depends on the casting director themselves and yet the people that I started calling it taints your previous question basically what I did is there's a website called IMDb there's a version of I am to be caught I'm DB pro which you know you pay like a very small annual fee and you just get a little bit more information and so some people will include you know contact information for either their company or themselves or whatever's necessary and so when I when I did create this list identify these people and some of them didn't have any information up so I just had to track it down you know by if say they have a name of their company but not %HESITATION you know not actual phone number or an email I would just kind of do some internet research and and find it and you know call them or email them and just say Hey here's the years just the project here's what I've done before is this the kind of thing you'd be interested in talking about and they say yes or no and yes it's kind of hit or miss from there once they're attached to what I actually do what are they actually doing okay well again it okay so that's where it comes into it depends on the project as a casting director in this case what I'm really excited about is finding someone who is going to have great ideas about people that I haven't thought of like Hey there's this actor that is in this show where there's this actor who's in this movie a couple years ago that you may not know and you should really think about that or what if we went to this person who is a little bigger but like we can maybe find a connection to them or hear someone that no one's ever heard of it all but I saw them in this thing and they are incredible let's have them in and talk to them and see if they'd be a fit for the role I think in my mind that's with perfect casting director does and then beyond that what they did then are able to do is say help me think through will these people work together well like will they have good chemistry you know so it's it's partly like it depends on the role and so with big leads there's a smaller list of people to potentially fill those roles and so with a big big big studio movie for example I think a lot of casting directors are %HESITATION you know there's only a handful of people who can headline a fifty to a hundred million dollar movie %HESITATION within any given age range gender etcetera and so that less is gonna be pre eighty short there's you know there's only so many Tom Hanks out there and so part of their job I I assume I mean I've never made a movie like that is to you know figure out what the deal is with those people figure out whether they're available you know pitch them on the project but you know at this level it is a lot more kind of keeping tabs on who's out there keeping tabs on projects making sure that we're thinking through every possibility and not just kind of you know going with the most obvious choices I think there are the obvious perception of a lot of people it's like the script comes in and the part calls for a two hundred and fifty pounds Samoan ex wrestler whose name has to do with lithography and she says you know who am I gonna get right what are the circumstances under which a casting director could get fired I would fire casting director if I felt like they were kind of phoning it in in saying lets you know if I was like I really want to push this like let's think outside the box is find somebody who looks different you know or find somebody who is it the first person that comes to mind when I think of this role for for example like there's so many movies so many movies get made so many indie movies and this is not to say that this is bad I I this is not a value judgment I just think it it is a in easy thing to slip into where it's just like great let's cast every role with typical white hipster twenty seven year old white hipster male female insert X. number of actors there's a number of people who can do that that's fine I want to see that's what the people want is that we'll see that's the thing though it is a you know a bunch of bearded guys let's just preponderance circle had to eat all of the problems with Hollywood by starting at the Indy level let's only cast white hipsters and then will only end up with white hipster movie stars it's perfect I love that plan John but it really does come down to what the script calls for like years what is that who were the leaves your script okay so there's really three three it's kind of an ensemble movie which is really fun and so again in this case I think a really count the casting director is going to look at it and say you know these are some people that maybe we should really think about and they're not the kind of people you would immediately thought of but man they would look so good day they would feel so good together they would feel like family for example there's a brother and a sister Madeon Rufus %HESITATION those are two of the three kind of main leads and then there's a second tier of really heavily featured supporting actors and so %HESITATION there's a lot of really juicy roles and so my goal there is to say obviously all of those rules don't need to be people that I've heard of I I hope that maybe one or two of them are just so that we can kind of help raise the profile of the project but %HESITATION finding people who played supporting roles in TV shows or or smaller movies and saying like man these people you may not have heard of them but they're gonna look great on screen with these other people and they're just gonna have like really great chemistry and where she finding these people is she going to local theaters I mean what is the actual work of getting is isn't this just a person that knows like fifteen actors now it's more like I if they end up knowing a ton of actors I think the real skill is probably I mean I don't know exactly how they do their job maybe down the road we can talk to somebody and really get into their world but out my assumption is that they'd kind of do it in a similar way that I do which is they watch a ton of stuff and keep notes on people that jump out at them and just sort of keep an idea of like Hey this is the kind of person that would be good for this kind of thing but what I really want help with in a movie like this is there's a brother and a sister for example manifest they need to be very believable as brother and sister obviously because they are brother and sister but how do we do that in a way that again is not just sort of a straight up the middle let's cast to people that kinda look exactly the same like that's not really what sells them as brother and sister you know right it's the chemistry it's it's the chemistry and I'm even kind of interested in thinking about Hey do they even have to look the same can one of them be Asian and one of them be white or one of them be black and one of them is Indian I don't know I mean I'm come clearly open and that's the kind of thing that I think a really excellent casting director is going to be able to help think through in some of this to it depends on the leads like frankly I'm probably not going to be in a position where I'm auditioning a lot of these leaks I'm probably gonna be making straight offers because people like auditioning auditioning sucks and so some of this is gonna be trust is gonna be largely based on their previous work right the people submit like a deck to you or a an audition tape or do you just look at their previous films a bit what if somebody hasn't been anything well the neck is we would audition them right the reason we would not dishing them is because they're just at the level where they don't have to audition anymore right %HESITATION but typically a you're just looking at previous work and then you know the the typical process is they send a real witches I hate reels side note I hate reels there that there are real is basically %HESITATION this is so annoying one is my my I pad keeps being eight the volume is down in its on do not disturb so I don't know how that yeah demonized okay I could hear it just then and I could hear you like pause yeah in it dad makes me angry it's totally fun yeah I think I'm gonna turn my wifi off so **** **** **** being put to impeding his neck in a killer call now I'm on my laptop for the call so what was the question again %HESITATION you were in the middle of telling me that casting directors up we talk about chemistry %HESITATION finding people who are right for the roles %HESITATION flow may find the direct offers right to making direct offers not auditioning people yeah another thing that it occurs to me when you're making an independent movie is cost has got to be a huge consideration right so it part of me is like if you had the capability to do something like it sounds like you have the capability to go out there and find these actors if it really just entails looking at work so you can go watch fifty independent movies and find people for this role is there any temptation to just want to do all a lot of the stuff yourself a lot over a hundred percent absolutely but here's the thing is I'm not again I I believe I believe in I believe and collaboration let's get real cheesy for a minute here now just super cheesy no I believe in collaboration I believe that someone else is gonna have not necessarily better ideas although they'll probably have better ideas but more importantly they're gonna have different ideas right and that's what is going to make this movie get I mean okay that's the name of this podcast which we should talk about at some point I don't know if we've explained yet the name of the podcast is I guess we'll do it that way which is very much at the core of this question which is yeah like if it look if if all these casting directors like do this script sucks and I don't won't take any risks on you because you seem like a real hack then yeah I'm gonna be like okay cool then I guess I'll just are calling all these actors myself like when the actors something about going to I know her agent so what I would do is I'd call her agent I'd say Hey do you think you can get this her and hopefully she would say yes and could I do that absolutely but am I gonna come up with as many good ideas no and more importantly another thing that casting directors do if they've made good stuff is that the legitimized project and so win actor why is thinking about you know when you're trying to get it to them their agent or their manager or whoever is their main gate keeper is to some extent going to be trying to shield them from bullshit and so when a casting director with great credits comes and says Hey I think this project is worth your time that's a completely different situation than some no name director like me calling them and sort of getting stuck at the bottom of the pile that's fastening that actually makes a ton of sense the legitimize the project by attaching themselves to it in that in in in the more people that attach themselves more legitimate the project gets and so the first actor that signs on is often the hardest and then if that person is really cool in the second person like on him work with that person isn't really great and then it just snowballs so these are all the rules are not cast at the same time they might pick of the main lead months or weeks or whatever ahead of all the other parts and use that as leverage to get yes the people they want absolutely but again back to the I guess we'll do it that way thing part of what happens is oh so and so is available on these windows next year March April and July and everything else they're booked and so we're like cool I guess we're gonna try to pull it off in April and then we start going everyone else in one of the first things you do when your check with actors you check their availabilities and you say Hey are they even available in the spring in there like now they're on a TV show until July and so you're like okay cool do we want to do it in July do we want to restructure do and this is why even huge movies you know another thing that we're producing a much much much bigger movie with like actual movie stars he would have heard of that would be a fine one to talk about down the road I can't talk about a time right now but like things here in a stars now right I'm just teasing everybody Kelly my wife was listening to the first episode she's like you better keep all these promises like in the show knows better be good because I need to show notes of like all they're going to be good I'm gonna make sure I got everything in there get ready to be disappointed Kelly yeah exactly Kelly's never no one's ever gonna listen episode three for sure but %HESITATION the idea would be so with even with bigger movies where money is really not the issue because they're paying people buku money to do these big movies shore the real problem is like the only get to do like three movies a year if you're not and then sell in and do you know so and so had to lose fifty pounds to do it and cut his hair off so like he's kind out of commission for the rest of the year and then you know and then this other guys like I'm only doing this and this and you know it's all of a sudden you end up making all these compromises and being like okay cool that's not our first choice but how do we find this other person who is also available to same time who also likes this person and then when you get into I mean thankfully I don't think this is as much of a thing for movies this size but I mean eventually get in a situation where it's like other crazy do you want to put up with that you know or they have history with this other person who's on you know who's who's acting in the movie is that gonna be a problem you know mean famously %HESITATION dis people said that Stanley Kubrick used eyes wide shut to break up Tom Cruise Nicole Kidman's marriage you know they're somewhat that way will way why would he do that for what purpose I don't know I don't even really know much about the legend I just maybe wasn't Nicole Kidman I don't know you never heard that I I think it does that not a common legend I thought that was kind of like a typical because they got divorced after that right you just invented a wild wild theory I love my life as I could get my phone just beep did somebody just sent me that on Twitter did know nobody's ever said that you just made that up I don't know I'm gonna find it it look there will be proof in the show knows who we are going to get a letter from his lawyer from his children I'm telling the state yes and I will have the last thing I want he's my hero you had a wild up to some serious forces here my man I'm just driving box office dollars may be so after the cast is set after everybody's lined up sometimes dude sometimes the cast doesn't get set until like the day before your shooting that scene I'm serious I mean I believe and we're shooting hunter gather there were a couple minor roles that we were looking for in till the last minute so after that after you're ready to shoot does the casting director just go to Jamaica what are they do they stick around and help it really depends I think a lot of cases they move on other projects I mean that's one okay another thought on casting directors hit me part of what makes a casting director slightly more approachable than say a famous actor or a big time super producer casting directors are that their involvement is very front loaded and so it's a little bit less when a producer or director or an actor signs on the project and they are stuck with that thing for years potentially you know because obviously they gotta sit through the development process they've got to make it which is like you know potentially months of work between prep and shooting I mean depends on how long the shoot is for advice shut your that's your year basically obviously rollers is not that big and then you've got %HESITATION you know potentially come back for reshoots and then you got it go to festivals and then you got to do like if it's a bigger movie gotta do like talk shows and podcasts in the press tour and all that kind of sucks all the sudden saying yes to one thing is a nightmare you know and see really got to want to do it it's not just %HESITATION it's not just like yeah pop in for if it's a pop in for four days type thing sometimes you can get pretty huge people %HESITATION but in this case you know it's it's you know like especially these leads it's a little bit of a process it's not gonna be a ton of press one nice thing is I'm shooting in LA so you know that's a big pitch to actors is Hey we're you know we're gonna shoot LA you probably live in LA just or maybe New York but either way it you probably spend a lot of time in LA at the very least and so you can probably sleep in your bed you can get other work done but I'm getting off track the point is the casting directors day %HESITATION they they're typically by the time you're in production they're they're pretty they're pretty pretty much moved on wears a producer isn't done really ever because even after the movie is released are still sending out okay accounting reports and you know %HESITATION finding new territories to sell a film to and all that kind of stuff do you know the path to become a casting director mean that's not something you go to school for right now that's actually good question I'm assuming the path is you start as someone's assistant and did they give you more things to do like I don't know exactly what casting assistant does on a day to day basis but I assume it's something like they are doing some of that research they're answering stuff the coordinating stuff they're doing whatever and then eventually they're like Hey want you you know here's this project that I don't have time for one of you can help me out I got to know we have to research this because now it's like who was the first casting director who never that's a good question come who is the for okay it would've been late actually I bet because back in the day it well but then again okay there's kind of two key components casting there's leads and names and all that kind of half you know there's there are the bigger people and then there's everyone else in the movie which is a completely different process because even a movie like the size of rollers a lot of the roles we are going to be auditioning people for but that's where some of the work of a of a cash record really comes in is because you've got the two halves you've got the the bigger half which is like leads to in this particular case with rollers I'm not necessarily going to be auditioning most of these leads I'm probably gonna end up going straight to some of them and saying based on your previous work I think it be amazing for this will you read this I might even write them a personal note explaining why I think they're great for the role in they decide to do it or not but they're not really an audition process a lot of the other roles though like all the a lot of supporting roles and and and guy number three who's you know I'm walking near that guy you know you can't audition that guy you got to find a guy because home and can be done that you got to get him to eat it down and for exactly I mean you got to see if you can eat a doughnut naturally a few looks like a looks like a crazy person some people look like crazy people in eight on us and you need that it's a litmus test to see a person's true self when they have powdered sugar on their face like can you hang with that if you can you have some real fortitude if not move along body we need somewhere else yet sorry it's nothing personal but we %HESITATION we don't need you it's not gonna work out get the F. out of my office how sad is it that really for the guy guy number three when you don't get that part %HESITATION Cascadia auditioning is brutal I mean I and most really famous people don addition all but I mean do it sucks because he okay let me describe a typical audition okay hit me you walk into the casting director's office there's like literally forty other people standing around they all kind of look like you year number twenty three you go in depending on the size a role and I had the the the distinct honor of being on both sides of of of this of this coin evolution for things and I've auditioned to people you've been dying to sitting there like a Shelob yeah and it's %HESITATION and you know it also sucks being the guy telling guy number twenty two thank you that was great and he walks out and you're like that was never going to happen there jobs were like oh that guy is great he just took in our and a half of his day to get here early and sit in front of me for literally three and a half minutes if that I've done auditions where I was in there for ten seconds not really ten seconds but under a minute because it's like yeah it's literally like you just pop in its for commercial they're like Hey take your shirt off while kind of commercials this %HESITATION I did %HESITATION it's that this special kind of commercial know this particular one okay this is part one of the dumbest auditions ever done is for like a cell phone commercial but the whole thing was a guy in a shower so they're like didn't actually make me take my shirt now they actually they did they want me take my shirt off to see what I look like shirtless which is fine I don't care I wore shorts and then I had to pretend like I was taking a shower I mine to shower described the room to us how many people are in this room in anywhere from one to five maybe it depends on the net is the one that you were in the one that you were in where you belong casting director one guy casting director making tape what city was this an easy walk in and you're like this is my name you know whatever %HESITATION this is in LA you walk in you like this is my name and and %HESITATION you know he said in the camera and then basically they're just making a big Ole list of people and so on the other side what do that the next step is I get let's say it's a commercial or movie for that matter %HESITATION I get in some form usually over the internet a %HESITATION you know a a list of or up a bunch of links to either a single link with a whole bunch of people with names and all that kind of stuff or like a link their little audition and %HESITATION and the resume and maybe an acting real %HESITATION I was saying earlier I hate reels here's why he reels and acting real is basically when you cut together a bunch of partial scenes and make like a little sizzle reel that shows how good of an actor your charm is there just never good there never good because the the things you were doing were never meant to be viewed in that way so it's you whipping around saying Hey I'm walking here and they take that put a yeah you like Hey I'm walking in the next thing you know you're in a different costume in a different place doing a different scene I just always would prefer to see I guess here's the thing a real can tell me if someone's bad I can tell someone's bad just by looking at a real I shouldn't really tell if they're good by looking at a real so then you bring him in so then I bring him in if I like my bring him in and I'm like Hey you know what's up dude don king if you're just starting out the next step would be let's say I have like a hundred a hundred people I mean it to be a totally depends but let's say a hundred people you know I would usually give some direction to the cash director maybe its sides if if it's a movie you know its price at the line you know the side space sides is basically the the peace of the scene or the peace the script that's relevant to that particular actor fanatical role and so the you know they may have the sides ahead of time and that's a whole nother thing how they get those sides that's usually %HESITATION it really depends on the size and role but usually these people out agents those those people's agents get contacted by the casting director by other people and and say to their actors who they represent their like Hey you you you you should come in here's a side to be ready you know have this monologue memorized have this other thing or have this line you know I'm locking him make she said you know three different ways and so you go in and you'll say it three different ways and then you walk out you're gonna get alone so this podcast I think you think I'll get a head like that role that's not you can be on NYPD Blue fifty times if I could get a job being that guy fifty times on NYPD Blue I would make good money yeah and probably be able to not have another job and make movies Hey if you're listening NYPD Blue casting rector I'm gay some of the ways that solid gold thank you John so what happens is I look at this beagle list of people and I'm like wow you know %HESITATION thirty percent of these people can't act unfortunately and %HESITATION choose your worst relief scene so I don't even know how to start hit me I mean I don't even know how to describe you know when you're like watching someone who can't act it's the worst %HESITATION it's just so painful it is absolutely excruciating homemade real if you're just starting out you you gotta put in what you're selling some in high school sometimes I I'm even I mean well that's the thing is it's really hard to get started because well how do you get rolls of you have been in anything and how do you get anything if you haven't gotten rolls right is it's a cleaner to classic chicken or the egg tell the kids out there right now I am have to tell the kids out there right now how do you get a how do you get a role kids out there right now I don't know I actually don't know I mean it's a it's a it's a haul it's you gotta find people you know that are making stuff and you got to get them to put you in it that's really what has to be and and I will say I don't usually judge acting based on the quality of the production value I can definitely see a little bit of a like okay this short is but Roche yes but that's not the actors fall in that in some cases are all bad should you know what you gotta do you gotta try some I've made terrible stuff that's just the way it goes that everybody makes bad stuff that's just how that's how you get better some you at right now exit we our making just a god awful podcasts of that later we can make a good podcast and but it won't real quick back to process though easy you know I don't even usually I don't look at a lot of reels unless I feel like I need a little bit more info typically let's say we have all these tapes and it's the person saying their lines or in some cases you know you come up with other ways to sort of see if they can do it like the donut thing that's a great Johnny should be cast record because that's maybe not the donut but it's a good idea for example there's one rollers the donut guy now casting director I'm available %HESITATION who the guy in my telling about casting directing is gonna be my casting director I love that I'll text you my fear right now okay is it above or below a million dollars I'm insulted that you'd even ask me that question if right will lower business I like your style it's all donuts I have a huge expenditure I'm gonna write a donut guy into the movie and you're gonna be the donut guy John I'm committing to that on the record right now I will fly out I will do this I love it okay so let's say it's a small role sometimes you got to come up with kind of creative ways to see if someone can do it for you handles yeah exactly and and and I've had roles where there's not a lot of talking but there's a lot of acting shore and some of its kind of improv some like you know sometimes you come up with this is I'm not saying this is good I'm just saying it actually kind of worked in this situation %HESITATION there is a person and the script it this was like a really last minute commercial the script was still in flux I was like I'm not gonna you know I'm not gonna try to make these people like memorize all this stuff and you know be this character and whatever so let's just honestly these people if they're right for the role part of it's going to look that's one thing I'm I I would say to young you know young actors the the the unpleasant reality is look look sexier no it's not that all the problem is each job because sometimes you just look the part or you don't and I think that's kind of an unfortunate reality like if they have somebody with brown hair and you know kind of shortened a little stubby and your lanky and tall Hey shoot going there do your best maybe they'll change their minds but the reality is a lot of the time they're just going like yeah they just don't look the part fix your body you got about a surge or just do you know you just may not get every part I think Jim pal that's my wet body it get it least three inches cut out of your legs put down at down put that down at down there is exactly the kind of message that will be spreading John there's a guy going around to give all of our listeners body image problems sorry keep on there's a guy walking around New York on quote unquote auditioning for as many rules as he can eating all the freemen's so the last thing I'll say about casting is you know they they there's an example where it's like Hey you know I don't need you to say all the I don't need you to do this like amazing Shakespeare monologue I just need to know that you're comfortable on camera and so you just come up with like a thing that they can do that will show you if they're comfortable on camera or if they can think on their feet or you just have to kind of decide what the role requires and then you have to figure out how to test those people it's almost like %HESITATION it's almost like science you know you have a hypothesis and then you've got to decide does does this work you know you're like I think dogs have emotions and then you have to come up with a test to actually figure out and create some sort of tangible evidence as to whether or not dogs have emotions in casting can be a little bit like that like I think you look right now can you do this can you be this way can I see you as small or can I see you as pathetic or can I see you as giant or strong or angry and that's really what it comes down to its last like I mean some of its professionalism some of its you know just can you be flexible can you think on your feet but some of its can I believe that you are a certain person or certain way how do you test to see if the dog has emotions I don't know that's a good question speaking of which we've got some new applications for producers my my sweet little kiddies with my niece right now %HESITATION Kitty cat came back well I'm not taken aback she can live with you but she's not a producer anymore I'm sorry I can't says bush league as soon as she saw my my niece who immediately picked this beautiful little Kitty happen started cuddling her and feeding her and taking care of her she was completely down with me the cat wants nothing to do with me anymore I think we're through well how should have a better life yeah I think that's great I think that she had it coming she did do a good job producing our last episode guides the first one was she produced like the first three minutes of it she said the Mike up and then that was it what do you think about have you met my dogs all of them Charlie because they're both vying for the role real hard I'm completely in favor of that that's not too nepotistic for you I mean if they fill out a form I watch a video you know go through the process is totally fine will speaking of casting I was trying to think of how to test whether or not they kind of have the %HESITATION the roll with the punches added to that a producer would need for show for a you know a high stakes show like this you have to do that well I I don't know yet I'm still working on kind of vetting them but earlier I decided to sort of get on the floor kinda wrestle with them a little bit and I found a toy that they really liked and I made them fight to the death I'm gonna put the phone number to pizza and the show now it's no I it's it's day trust me no one got hurt I stop them but I just needed to know that they if I say fight to the death with your brother all of I want you to kill him this is an Abraham and Isaac situation yeah exactly I needed to know that she would do it and she was totally in just your recitation and I I had to stop or she had her her mouth around Charlie's jugular and she was about to rip it out and I was like all of you got you got it but then it soon Charlie didn't waste a second he as soon as I said you're done he he took advantage of of her guard being down and he got her hand and so now they're tied and I can't decide which one we should give their all too after all that work it's gonna be a shame but just flip a coin alright let's %HESITATION let's flip okay I got a quarter I'm gonna flip now call in here okay as for all of Charlie got it it was tales he wanted it more yeah he definitely wanted it more okay says a %HESITATION you told me to listen to that Drake the new album scorpion what do you think of it I started at this morning listen the first two songs but I pulled it up on my phone on I tunes you know and they have notes about the album and Drake wrote the editor notes show for you for instance you know if it were like kids he goes it would say kid cutting Kanye west made this album last year blah blah blah it's a little bit about it but Drake wrote the editor notes for his album and they are the following your reading yes I'm so ready okay this is all caps so the person is screaming this I person being Drake yeah Drake is it cool to like Drake by the way I don't even know I just send it to you because like all this is blown up who's gonna read like three of these amps can relate okay ready yet and we can answer that question after we read this is it okay electric or is it cool electric is a cool okay ahead okay I hate when Drake raps Drake sings too much Drake is a pop artist who drink doesn't even write his own songs Jake didn't start from the bottom Drake is finished Jake thinks he's Jamaican what what Jake is an actor Drake changed anybody else later than sign Drake that's what he wrote I am dying right now it's crazy right so I saw that I had to read it like four times what does this mean Drake is going through some **** sick of the haters **** with them that is wild intense but the songs they sounding the haters are **** with them with good reason do you have an opinion on that no I mean I don't either I don't know anything about any of these people I know very little about him at all you make great songs do that's where it stops like I don't care what you do after that does he make great songs though yeah yeah he's okay I mean who I mean I think it is easy fresh out to the beach always sound so why I know I mean what it means not Williamsburg right now yeah yeah and I just said y'all y'all baby southerner but I did listen to one of the songs and Drake said that he zero stepping somewhere like his euro step in past people into the metaphorical and zone of success I guess some I just makes so many metaphors but not do you know I could not get that image out of my mind of Drake traveling because that's what is your your stepping is traveling right I bet it's a very luxurious process you know what you're stepping as you know I'm talking about I don't know I don't know how we know so little about basketball we're gonna be exposed here okay so yeah so you're a step is when you take like one two three I think people are screaming right now with the radios were on the radio teddy screaming because of how stupid I am right now but I think it's one two three steps shoot the ball get points owe you get twenty suits brought it over with basketball you know you make the basket you get points yeah yeah but these guys brought this like step over from Europe which is why it's from Europe league basketball and brought it over to the NBA hero stepping and now it's kinda G. year established and get away with it yeah daughter step it's a very it's a unique sort of thing but it looks like straight up traveling OC you meant travelling like traveling in basketball not traveling in Europe exactly I was picturing Drake on a jet that was the wrong image we gotta get a Canadian the horn did yeah we got a buddy need Drexler sports expert maybe you can clear pure stepping for us we think he's a sports writer he knows a lot of stuff about sports let's see what he has to say about your stepping we're just sports in general of baby is a level of those exports Nate oooh baby we got matrix or on the horn on biological I stay at my west coast spread my only west coast connect how are you neat I'm so good can you hear my boy Johnny bear Hey Anthony what's going on shot a bear what's going on with my man I'm just a few blocks away in beautiful Astoria I was gonna say long time no talk welcome to the east coast my friend Anthony never panned a nice screen last night together always scared we went on an ice cream journey and Johnny bear as yourself actually called him got ice cream snickers bar for the walk he was delicious like an appetite for the ice cream that we bought we bought ice cream and he got an ice cream bar and appetizers man after my own heart that is it was delicious I've got no regrets no regrets that is exactly how I would have done as right after we had to Blackie celebrities take their eyes power that seems like the kind of thing Drake would do who know we gotta get uncle Nate we gotta get I'm going to clear the suffers uncle Nate what is a year a step it's really hard to explain we found that to be true selves own thank you but essentially we connection at all to the basket at and you're holding the ball and you do something of a crossover step shoot shoot the defender and a leading one direction but it's really an awkward move so like it's sort of like the opposite of like a jab step to get a guy because when your jab stepping you're usually just going like comments about your body is going whichever way your jabbing but when he stepped you're actually jabbing opposite of the moment some of your body so it like EE confuses the defender and then you and then also uses his off balance enough that you can you can go up but it requires an incredible amount of coordination and worked out a lot of guys just can't Polack it's it's it's it's very tricky I don't really it's hard to explain exactly what it is you have to you too but I need tells real quick what you think about lebron James going to LA well I had a horrible night last night I mean I really I lock closure I have people of my Twitter telling me it's going to be okay and not to lose your cool lebron %HESITATION signed a four year contract with the Los Angeles Lakers and it's not about the fact that he signed a contract with a different team I'm not a cafe animal the brown family follow up anywhere I only he Jersey and a cat Jersey with his name on it LA is a huge market whatever it's gonna be great for his family the problem is they did not immediately build anything around him that's good brought on lance even stand who is like a garbage pail kid of a psycho who the little carbon dioxide in the bronze here in the middle of a very important game several years ago he's like a board and lebron wound me he blew it can you please tell what is blowing carbon dioxide in his ear is that a euphemism carbon dioxide is what is what actually comes out your mouth when you exhale okay she leaned over in the middle of a huge game they were coming out of a time not a playoff game where lebron's playoff life was in jeopardy inexplicably one of those games and lance Stephenson was guarding him in doing a decent job of guarding him in that game and coming out of a timeout he leaned over and blew it is here like softly and tenderly blew air into his years and then it's like you get is a great video and yes love it I love Ron just days staring like you didn't let but like this dude is like the ultimate lebron troll all through his career and gives them headaches media we'd look Ron sizeable Lakers they go get this guy and I think it's because we're brought was like I don't want to have to deal with this guy on the opposite side of the court as me he's not good and he's not going to help this team and he's a garbage pail easy garbage and also the other thing that he does he does this quite often I cannot get past is blowing in the air thing he doesn't say anything he doesn't he bends over and just like you know how like in knowing it would be if like someone gave you like a wet Willie who I would smack in the worse I would literally punch him in the face real that's what everyone wanted to do was punch minutes space will probably just stayed with us great you because he's a pro professional like I want to actually kill this guy he's he's a professional is the best professional what did lebron due to him he must have done something is he just the best kill them you just kill them it's just that he's the best and and lance Stephenson is one of these guys like everyone in the NBA has an ego I don't mean this in a negative way but all these guys if you think about it were the best in their grade school they were the best in their high school they were the best on their college team they were the best on their AAU team so when they get to the NBA it doesn't really register them I'm not as good as lebron James these guys absolutely believes they are the best movies haven't gotten their teens yet yeah yeah exactly like everyone's like I used to work for ESPN a little bit like bike blogging and I covered a lot of games down in Orlando when I was there I talked to a lot of players and I talk a lot better sheer and I think it's a time it was something like white Howard was was maybe gonna sign with a team with another big center and I was like does that scare you you know what that does that worry you to have those two guys in the same and the answer was unanimous and it wasn't like just the sound by these guys like what no like nothing scares me like I can play with anyone like this I mean the best and they really do think that so that's the way that people aren't you must have to think that yeah I mean otherwise you're not you can't get to that level yeah you know we don't think about because we really as fans we see more objectively were like yeah of course lebron is way better than expired of course this guy's better just buyers those guys in that moment they've never been told or believe anything except I'm actually Bob ask if not one or one of the best if not the best players work so there's that mentality still like when they go up so it's not that we're going to have to do anything to have missed that late Stevenson is looking at the mere at night when he goes on to his million dollar condo in Indianapolis and he's like dude I could stop this guy and he has a game where like you actually maybe has twenty points and maybe get the steel off lebron and he's like that just like reaffirms that you know what I'm saying me he lives in Indianapolis wise you live in Indianapolis lightly played for the Pacers arm the Pacers yeah are there soccer team they're they're not they're they're basket during the World Cup right the Senate in the World Cup states don't have teams that go to the world okay contact contact fun fact I sling Iceland in nearly beat Argentina in the World Cup do you know how many people live in Iceland three hundred thousand and they feel that if they feel that a world class soccer team that almost be Lino messy the entire United States did not field a world class soccer team that could almost be messy but I slammed it there are more people living in like Glendale California than there are in the entire country of Iceland and they feel that a world class soccer team how is that possible I don't know but I was going to ask you because I don't so I don't follow the World Cup closely but I'm curious if you look that up another thing you should look up is how many guys on that roster live in Iceland like I'm curious I'm genuinely curious going back to their home country okay that's fine but they're still Icelandic how much do they have to be I don't know but he just like a quarter and still choose to go play price I don't know that could still be true but if we can hide the ethnically connected to a country to play for the team you don't have to be right like the Olympics I external Chinese figure skaters the place that compete for America okay then fine if you can extrapolate out a certain amount of nationality that would be even more true with America right where is our World Cup team yet dum dum the more money you that's like Akron Ohio fielding an NBA team that beats the cavs in the finals not exactly how how I don't know the World Cup is confounding to me like I like I I sort of I sort of just like where we are now because like when did that game happened it wasn't in one of the early rounds where it's just like points that that you have to accumulate yeah I know I don't even know that much no this was this was a points game this was a points game what you're probably out now yeah I'm barely even paying attention I just thought it was a fun fact I see I don't know because in those points games I feel like people are let off the gas a little bit because they're like calculating we don't need to go balls out for this game because all we need is action on to the next round but then I don't like the idea of elimination games either because it's like the NC double a tournament and anyone can beat anyone like you can get a fluke goal I don't I didn't see the game I don't know if I slammed scored loopholes I don't STT messy place for Argentina right he's been getting a lot of slack right for being like kind of a fraud or not playing well you never plan that will help them yeah so I mean I don't know like I feel like an elimination like either World Cup games are just like unpredictable and I don't like killing March madness I yeah I'm more of a series guy I might let these things play against each other three to seven times then we actually knows better and of course I think like I don't know because I actually don't know but I assuming Argentina would probably win in a five game series Overijssel neat let's get a quick hot take on are you coming to Los Angeles to see lebron play or not well I fired off a treat this morning I'm extremely disgruntled about the move people are telling me that he's taken the long con he's building for next year and the year after that I think I live in New York City and I can't afford to go to our next game and the next part arable but I can't afford to get in the stadium eyes I'd love to be scary I think I would love to come to staples center and see what Ron and I follow him anywhere and I tweeted this morning that even though I'm disgruntled I'm I'm all and I'm on board the Lakers fan you know don't ask me don't ask me because I've gone on record to say that I'm a lebron fan so I follow him everywhere not just a band wagon or a life long you choose in a long time ago two thousand two thousand and one I think so have you covered up your cast had to yet I just got a King James that do but check this out I was the I saw online yesterday that a season ticket %HESITATION season ticket prices jumped already %HESITATION for staples that are like fifteen hundred dollars like my gosh %HESITATION so I mean there's just no way I just there's no way I could afford to go insane that so much money so if someone buys me a ticket I will absolutely be there if I can somehow figure out a way to finance the ticket I may do it I would love to see what Ron play at staples center maybe not this year because the team is garbage but maybe like in two years I'm done with long wall of stealing good yes on the four year contract he's great got his championship squad I save up a little bit of money and I get to go to that's all from me for now I hung up on %HESITATION he's there to get in the weeds in this isn't really a sports podcast you now you just hung up on him Coulter I just I I felt like he was gonna take like another ten minutes to wrap up the conversation it was so much sports my head was starting to her I know that's why I had to I just had to get out of there you know so much about sports it's intimidating and my crazy I really was a little worried that we were gonna end up taking another hour to finish that conversation was I was trying to soak in as much of that as I could I love that guy I will come back we'll come back hopefully it'll pick up next time I don't know man that was pretty rude we'll see if I had a ISIS okay speaking of lebron moving speaking of you know Drake and they they I mean that monologue is incredible %HESITATION or whatever you call that act it's in I think it's a message to the haters that's what that that is yeah it's pre it's it's don't you think you have a little for what is he afraid of though is you're freed of his recent success I mean I I because I was I was looking at the lyrics for that previously %HESITATION short it seems like he's terrified of success or what success entails being in the spotlight yeah people hating him people being haters so he's got to respond to them I don't know I guess I can can you have to respond to that I mean that just seems that's a very good question I don't know I really don't know drink your drink you have a jet to yeah acts you don't have to respond to people who call you stupid right now or say you're a bad rapper yeah it seems so but it seems like the entire album is about that at least from what I can tell us into enough of it I just heard those sweet sweet beats and I was seduced the other thing about this drink the drink liner notes is that it sounds a lot like what Kanye west said about himself I like the old kind yeah you know he he referred to the criticism before other people could get changed and somehow his musical style had changed her he's pre responding to the haters quote unquote and tracking who has already been accused of copying people seem like copy Tonya west at this yeah I don't know what that yeah I way we will have to have a a rap will have an address on on we'll get great I can get Draco column Jersey if you're listening had us up I don't know I am I can relate to the sense of of being afraid of the possibility of being seduced by success and and sort of becoming addicted to affirmation now right that there's something about obscurity I I there's part of me that like I do if I'm honest I would love to make movies that everyone watches and and become famous you know vinous I I want that and I'm sure you you know anyone can relate to that I want that for you well thank you John and but there's also a part of me that thinks I'm probably better off being a little bit of a career failure and being stable as a human being you know and I will and I hope I can have both of those things but it scares the crap out of me trying to have both the idea of trying to have both I don't know maybe I'm overreacting maybe I'm putting the cart way before the donkey you know I think we'll just have to explore that I think we will maybe we'll talk about that next week next week we'll check in in here what's with the what has happened since we last yeah I hope we'll have some more progress for you I think you need to create some drama to have something to talk about yeah I think it's time to start poking the bear if you know what I mean fire this casting director get a new one check it out did this casting director gave me the quickest read I've a sheet she read my script in under a week that is mirac

Bil Herd shares stories and design wisdom from years of experience as a hardware engineer, most famously at Commodore. Starting out self-taught, Bil found his way to working around brilliance and some of it rubbed off a little. Learn about his interesting journey from TV repair to Commodore, Hackaday and beyond. Today, Bil is self-employed and focused on networks, high-level architecture consulting and hardware projects.     Show Highlights: I never forgot how to do hardware design. It’s fun to be able to do that. I’m working on an Altium project right now. You get to be imaginative for a couple days, and then you spend the next couple months paying for it looking at every single line item, every footprint and trying to catch where your brain was wrong. Commodore Hardware lab, splitting bus for video and hired to lead the team shortly after. Going after a swag bag offered by Adafruit from an MIT Open hardware conference resulted in a video series with Hackaday. Almost all the errors I’ve made in CAD systems were related to parts I’ve made. For parts and footprints - you need to have someone check your work. To start a new CAD system - make a trash board, force yourself through. Process to start learning a new CAD system: Open CAD > Get Overwhelmed > DRINK Making a board on a new CAD tool. First I make a trash board knowing I won’t use it. Then make a real board, using all the rules. Links and Resources: Bil Herd Wikipedia Hackaday Bil Herd’s Hackaday Videos   See all show notes and video here.    Hey everyone, this is Judy Warner with Altium's OnTrack Podcast. Welcome back. Our audience continues to grow and we thank you for joining us again, and I want to give a shout out to Steven Newberry from LGS innovations who took away always marking his diodes with a K, and so many of you have chimed in and help driving actually who we have on the show and the topics we discuss. So thanks so much for joining. If you would please connect with me on LinkedIn or @AltiumJudy on Twitter and Altium is also on LinkedIn, Facebook and Twitter, and remember we're always on YouTube as well as on your favorite podcast apps. So thanks again for joining and hold onto your hats because we're gonna have a little bit of a history lesson tied in with today's best practices. So today our guest is Bill Herd, who is actually a figure of history and he has a Wikipedia page that you will have to take a look at. So for those of you that are probably, I don't know 40s and above, might remember the Commodore personal computer. It was one of the first, I'll let Bill fill you in all the details, but I remember vividly when I was in my early 20s, my dad coming home with a Commodore 64 and it was all the rage and he thought the world is forever changed and I'll never ever use all the 64k that I possibly have. So Bill, welcome and we're so glad to have you and can't wait. We're gonna tell some stories, you're gonna give us some design wisdom, so thanks so much for joining us. My pleasure. Actually I do describe myself as a recovering Commodore Engineer the active recovery never stops you've just gotta keep trying to get better. Well, I'm sorry but based on the background behind you I'm not sure about your recovery. Okay - I've relapsed a little [laughter] So, briefly tell us what you're - are you working now as a Consultant, you know like your own entity I forgot to clarify that with you? Yeah actually I'm self-employed so to speak, I owned an ISP for about 15 years and had 16 people and we did all that and then it ran its course as ISPs do, and so I do a lot of networking and high-level architecture consultation, but I never forgot how to do hardware design. So actually you caught me in the middle of doing an Altium project right now, where we're going to a limited quantity but I just went through all the steps - all the dirty little details getting a PC board out, so it was kind of fun to still be able to do that. I love the way you put it, 'the dirty little details' there's a lot of those right? You get to be imaginative for a couple days and then you spend the next couple months paying for it by looking at each and every line item and every footprint and trying to catch where your brain was wrong you know, way back in the beginning. Yeah well, so I also noticed you have - as I've gotten to get acquainted with you a little bit - back in the days of Commodore and the early days actually of the personal computer business the words nerds and hackers weren't really around but seeing you sit there in a Hackaday shirt with that lab behind you, I would say you are the quintessential original geek or nerd what do you have to say about that? Well, one - we did call it home computers, back then the PC hadn't been invented yet, and I also mention I've never been to school for any of this. I was a - basically a high school dropout - and ended up in the service, and went back and almost got my degree. I own like a library book for the money $3.42; for a library book, in English class where me and the teacher just couldn't make it work. So about three years later they sent home my diploma with my sister just going: here you'll need this someday. I used to say I was self-taught but what really happened, self-taught got me into a couple good places and then the education really started; working around really smart, really brilliant people, that's where I got the education that made it so I could do a product from beginning to end. So I was fixing TVs, got my TV Repairman License at the age of 17, in Indiana. You know and sometimes they'd answer the door and didn't want to let me in, because I got long hair and I'm carrying tube caddies and they're like: who are you? I'm like, van out front, TV repair, and people fed me cookies when they saw me fix their TV sets. Right well we will share Bill's Wikipedia page and there are some awesome pictures of this long haired hippie, with this cut off denims... Hey don't tease me about the shorts, it was 1980. Hey I'm sorry, but I wore shorts just like that so yeah, so we will share that because there's a lot of history and fun and great pictures that I think you'll enjoy hearing. So tell us a little bit about how you got into the whole Commodore thing and then we're gonna dig in and give our listeners some really practical advice on those nitty gritty details you talked about, and then we'll wrap up with some more fun stories. So just briefly give us an overview of Commodore and Hackaday? Okay if I back up just a little bit - I started at a digital scale company in Pennsylvania making instrumentation, so there I learned to do very accurate stuff with very good grounding. I understood analog and RF spectrum and all that, and it was all hand taped right. Well a guy named Terry Fisher who I just got through working with again, so after 35 years, we're still doing it and he was on Altium this time. So when I got to Commodore I had the background for how to make something expensive work. And then you just take that and you just shake it and it comes out of your head cuz now you've got to make it cheap, cheap, cheap, cheap. Yeah. And people are mad at me these days because they say: oh I have a 30 year old Commodore and it just failed! I'm like: it was designed to last five years. You should have put a switching supply... what? To put a dime more into it I'd have been fired if I did! So I got my job almost by accident at Commodore. I mean, there's a whole story here and I'm going to - let's just say I blew the interview like three times and still got hired. You know what, not even taking in my resume you know? But so I got there, and they didn't know what to do with me, and I read in a book that I was actually hired as a Technician. They just knew they could use people like me and then they sat me down, the guy was named Benny Prudent, and he said: well here, study all these software manuals. So now I was gonna be right for a programmer - I could do 6502 programming. But for a disk drive - I'm like: that sounds like the most boring thing in the world, but sure. And then I walked into the hardware lab and I saw what they were doing - they were splitting the BUS for the video - which back then I was doing it at home - and that's why I said: I just built something at home where I actually don't wait till the vertical retrace time to ramp and two weeks later I was in charge of the project. The guy was leaving, they didn't have anybody else, so now I'm a Project Leader at Commodore within a couple weeks. Oh my gosh, it was like the Wild West was it not? Oh absolutely and I loved it and I brought a certain 'animal house'  to that, because we had lost a lot of talent. I mean there was people like Chuck Peddle who designed the 6502, he's gone, but his cigar's burning in the ashtray. The chair's still warm right. So you knew that these people had been there, but they're gone - and there's these kind of older, stogier guys and me. And pretty soon it became an environment where shoes became optional, so we definitely made it into what we wanted to and you have to do that when you work 20 hour days. That's crazy so you're sleeping in the office or not sleeping? My record was 11 days without leaving. I had an air mattress, I would actually hot bunk with the technician so I would get something designed like 2:00 in the morning, check the air mattress out and they would build it for me and I'd go catch an hour to sleep and then they'd come back and kick the air mattress and say: it's built, and   just taking showers out of the sink - things like that. Well we'll talk more about some of your fun Commodore stories because I know we'll really want to dig into those a little bit more. But tell us also about your involvement with Hackaday? Yeah it's actually interesting, that I used to watch Adafruit's Little Saturday Night Show right and they would do this thing where they'd give something away and usually it was a product and I didn't go for that as much because I could just - their products are so cheap I could just buy one. But one time they had been to the Open Hardware Venue - a conference - and it was actually at MIT I think - and they asked a question and I went right to a web page, found the answer because they were giving away the swag bag, so I said, that I'll go for! So in the swag bag was some cool things but one of them was a - it was like an Octopart - only it was somebody else's version of it. Well they're owned by the people that owned Pacada. So I start talking with them, I ended up a Beta Tester, and the guy realized I just never shut up, that I'm always telling stories right? And so pretty soon he puts me in touch with Mike the head editor at Hackaday, and I'm doing the same to him only in emails, and finally he's like: all right that's it, write stuff or shut up, and so we came up with the video format because it just - it works for me - it works for my personality and I am a high school dropout which means my English ain't so good anyway, so the video works better for me. Yeah well we will also share those for listeners here - I've seen a few of them and he is perfectly suited for that. So I'll share that as well for you wannabe hackers. So let's dig into some immediate content that I hope will help engineers and PCB designers that are listening to us. You have told me -  how many EDA tools have you used over a year period? Yeah I made it all up, hardly any at all [laughter]. No it had to be like seven, eight, or nine, depending on how you count them and to what degree. But going back to the 1980s when a workstation cost fifty thousand or a hundred thousand dollars and you couldn't get them as a home user or even as a small business and so, we started it. We started with hand tape and the cool thing with that is, if you can do good hand tape, you can use a tool like a CAD and do more. But you still have to be good to begin with right? You have to understand the principles and nowadays it's more common for engineers to do their own PCB layout but I'm still of that school that: do what you do really well, and use somebody when possible that does what he does as good as you, that's why I use a guy like I said, Terry Fisher. He's as good and he knows when to ask me questions and I know when to shut up right so we have a good relationship for that kind of thing. And we started on Mentors, which actually we designed chips with, but he started on a system called a side card, and it was a card that plugged into the backs. Well when he'd start moving parts on the PC board everybody's computer slowed down right. These chip designers and stuff because it's on the VMBus, it's taking the cycles directly, so they give Terry his so - he actually he goes by Fish. They gave Fish his own VAX so now he's got a three hundred and fifty thousand dollar CAD system to lay out pc boards and so that's the 1980s, and in the Mentor, we - I hadn't really even seen a real mouse like we use until Sun's came out. It had a scratch pad so I actually grew my fingernail into a point so that I had a built-in stylus on my index finger - so yeah  just genetically modified kind of you know... [laughter]. That's funny - so with all of those changing of tools which most people that I know, that are designers, once they get proficient on a tool they'd rather die than change tools because it can be such a painful process. So tell us about changing tools. If you have to do it, what is the least painful path? Well management will always want you to do that right in the middle of a project right and that's - it's pretty key to not try and - we actually moved our hardware labs right in the middle of a project one time too. Just kind of in the same... But if you're going to change programs, realize that they're just tools, and after you've changed a couple times you start to go: okay I know how this play goes and and you do a couple of the same things and you sometimes learn and really appreciate your old tool and sometimes you learn that hey, the new tool's better. But they're no two the same, especially in CAD where there's so many complex things. So I think people picking up tools - I saw it a lot with EAGLE - what they did, and they did an amazing thing for the maker industry and the home users - even though I hate the program. if you're a professional, you just go: what, I have to drag the trace off the screen to hit the menu? this is like somebody put a GUI on a command line program. Well guess what? EAGLE's were GUI on the command line program back in the old days. So you know the false attractiveness of something like EAGLE was, it did have huge libraries right, and especially for boards because I mean these, Arduino boards - I can't deal with the mechanics of them, they're not on the center's, I'm used to all that - but what you really have to come down to when you do a CAD system is, realize you've got to make your own parts at one time or another, so you might as well get proficient at it. And if you're using libraries you might just be using somebody else's problems. So even if you do use somebody else's library - it's like you've gotta still vet the part. Right, so just realize that you're going to have to make your own parts. And then there's things like BSDL importing and stuff like, if you're doing a 250 pin FPGA, you don't want to hand-do that either, so there are tools to help you avoid the mistakes. But almost all the errors I've ever made in CAD systems are related to the parts I've made where - I actually have data books here not data sheets - a guy said: yeah you use the word book don't you? And while you're looking at the book, making the part, I've done simple things that I'll never catch myself - by having like D7 to D0, instead of D0 to D7. When I see what I think I want to see, and that's it, the mistake is in there until somebody else catches it. So we used to always have somebody else check our parts you know, in footprints or the same way I still think. So that's the first thing, is realize you’ve got to make your parts and then I recommend you just sit down and trash a board - try not to ruin your library in the process - because you could screw up libraries right. But then throw that board away and start again. This time trying to obey every rule you know how, and actually even if you don't produce the board actually obey all the rules, look up every command you don't know that you actually need, and that's kind of how I started a new CAD system. So for our audience, Bill sent me a few notes for the point of our conversation here, here is a note that he wrote: Starting a new CAD, do a couple of projects early on - sort of what he's talking about right now - his first line is, 'open CAD - get overwhelmed - drink' [laughter]. Yes, it can be overwhelming! It's like my drill sergeant said when I went through basics: 'we know it hurts gentlemen, you don't have to tell us' and we're like, oh I'll keep my pain to myself. It's the same thing: I'm supposed to be overwhelmed, okay let's you know. So you open it again, and you start looking for what you know. So there are some things you need to learn the quirks of upfront. Like how do you do a BUS? Everybody does it slightly different, that nomenclature, whether it's curly braces, brackets, whatever. And an 8 10 dot dot 8 zero -   it might be low to high, it might be either way, but you got to learn those things. And interconnects, how to make sure that a part's really hooked up. One CAD system I was on, was called Ulti Board by National Instruments, and the DRC wasn't catching the fact that parts looked like they were hooked up, and they weren't. Well, how do you catch that? Well yeah, how do you catch that? Yeah so you've got to - you go around jiggling your parts and it's stupid you know, so do a good DRC and you know, Ben, when he looked over my shoulder to check my router - from Hackaday, Ben Jordan. He gave me an - actually a compliment that I took, which was: oh it's nice to see you have all your DRC errors fixed. Well I'm old enough, I don't remember fixing them, but I'm old enough that I know I would have fixed them. Cause that's it, that's your last chance to catch that you have a net floating, even though you don't know it. Whether it's a misspelling, even capitalization change, something like that. So yeah, you got to learn all those dirty deeds and details. I was just talking to John Watson on this podcast about a week ago, we talked a lot about libraries and the same subject. It's like a theme that most headaches seem like they begin and end with the parts libraries   and even having a data sheet that's correct or hasn't changed in the last five minutes. How do you address that? I still have data books [laughter] - no, it's still like going over it, and over it, a couple of times and having somebody else look as well. I'll still take a highlighter to a schematic sometimes just if I feel I'm getting confused, out comes the highlighter to help me get more confused. [laughter] -at the end hopefully I get it. That's funny! Okay (I keep bumping things sorry about that) so okay. Let's talk about hidden nets... Okay go! I hate them [laughter] hidden nets are where somebody thought let's show up DIP package or something and we know we are hooking it up to +5 and grounds so there's no point in cluttering the schematic with it. Well my attitude is how do you know it hooked up to +5 and ground? Nowadays it's 9 +5 and ground is +3.3, 1.2, 1.0 - - so yeah whoever came up with that, they need to have something I don't want to say something bad happen... [laughter] They need to miss a CES deadline or something themself. So it's the invitation for failure is what you're saying? Yeah you can't check it, you make assumptions and that's where problems start so yeah. Would you say that making assumptions is one of those easy pitfalls for designers to fall into? Yeah, thinking SOIC is a size. It's not you know, there could be white body, skinny bodies, and it's like: oh but the picture looks like -  no. You better learn to have - one thing is you have to learn with new CAD packages, is how to measure things. And you need to do that, and then look to see oh it's .43 inches or  ... and I - one time I almost missed the fact that the the lead pitch was 0.5 instead of 0.75. That wouldn't have fit! That would have meant instant failure. You made a comment about assembly drawings being readable what did you mean by that? You know as parts got smaller the silkscreen no longer - it's not as important because of assembly techniques but if you still want to measure - you can't get that little silkscreen anywhere near the part sometimes, so you end up with an assembly drawing where you had to like put all these silk screens where you now want them inside the outlines and all that so it's like you can't use the silkscreen for an assembly drawing like the old days. You have to do a whole new one if you want to be able to find the part. But now these days what I do - but I'm working on a really dense... or troubleshooting, I actually keep the CAD open and I do the -   jump to component - and find it that way it really is faster to use technology sometimes... [laughter] sometimes. Sometimes, at least I don't hand etch my boards anymore. Yeah. Remember that, the seventies? I always say, because I was in the bare board industry for years, sales and marketing-wise and we would take people, walk through and do surveys, plus I actually worked on a shop floor for a short period of time like, I'm gonna die of heavy metal exposure man, the chemicals we had in there. I remember walking into a planing room at the first board shop I worked and my skin just burning, yes burning, just poor ventilation and there was sulphuric acid in there. I'm told you can't have plating or PC board manufacture in New Jersey, that they've just kind of made it so you can't do that. Well there's that - there's a little bit of toxicity going on in the chemicals. Right, and at Commodore we made the ultimate printed wiring board printed circuit board right which is a chip - it's just really, really small, and we polluted the groundwater and you can look this up, but we had to buy dedicated lines for like 11 neighbors, and then we had those golf course sprinklers in the back aerating the ground water. Well my first day there I mean they're just literally spraying it in the air hoping the VOCs evaporate right. Oh my gosh! I parked too close my first day there and I come out and my car's covered with this sticky stuff right and not only that, I had parked under a tree so now the leaves are stuck to my windshield with this and to try and peel them off - they just break - and they're like: oh yeah dude, don't park there man, that's in the water. Like I said, it was the Wild West days I mean. Still a Superfund site I'm told. I bet, like it's frightening - it's frightening and I'm glad we've gotten our act together a little bit environmentally oh my gosh because literally we could all die from those toxic... Yeah I remember the day my dad brought home mercury to play with you know. I remember my neighbor was an engineer - he brought home mercury to play with and we'd watch you know, roll it around on our hand or whatever, crazy! Forget about playing with it - you know putting it in your teeth we would like, oh here, pour it in my hand, let's roll it around, isn't that cool? Yeah and you put it back in the jar and it's never quite as full as you started right because you're leaving a certain amount on the floor... Good memories but we might die young, just saying... [laughter] So when you start a new CAD program, do you just jump in and start designing? How do you take that on if you're gonna take on a new CAD, what's the way you approach it? Well  as I said, I kind of I go in knowing I'm going to do a trash board, it's all about just hooking some stuff up knowing that you're making mistakes and then I try and do something more real and try and really obey the rules and that's where it starts - that's how you're learning from page to page cuz every CAD system's slightly different, but it's kind of like how you think. You drop a part, you try and put a wire on it and the kind of mistakes you'll make is not having a clear way knowing how you want to do all the resistor values in the world right. Do you make a part for each resistor value, or do you use a generic part and assign the values? And those are things you just have to figure out yourself on each CAD system I think. So I mean, I honestly don't know how it's done. I have lots of compassion for my engineering friends who are also laying out boards who really got no serious, formal training in PCB design, but alas they are laying out boards and then they get thrown a new tool like... So do you just hop on it and jump in and swim? Remember, it's a tool too and they have some really great tools like things that'll help you plot RF noise on the ground plane or thermal or something but you know, at the end of the day that's not necessarily real life. It's a tool you know, so it's an opinion, and it might be a faster, better, more colorful opinion than we used to get with an old thermal probe. But you just got to kind of try it and if you work around people who can look over your shoulder they'll save you a lot of time - especially hot keys and stuff like that. And that's probably one of my pet peeves is I don't like having to rely on hot keys and that was even before I lost a finger, so now some of the hot key combinations are literally beyond this old man's ability to do without using my nose and stuff it's... How did you lose a finger? I tore it off! Dare I ask? I just caught my ring on something and I stepped eight inches off something - it stripped it off the bone, we have pictures on the web of that also. But I used to work at a trauma department and I've flown with a 103rd combat medics, I've been captain of a rescue squad. So I look down and I just go: I know where I'm going today - I didn't even tell my wife right. I figured she's away at a quilting bee, having a good day, the next day I was: Hi, uh, lost a finger and she got mad at me for not telling her. I would get mad at you too... just saying like: oh Chee how's the quilt work? Good what did you do? I just lost my finger. Yeah, yeah well my son actually looked at it and we took pictures - by the way I had to wait half an hour for an ambulance and being a former ambulance guy that was just like -  that was an insult on top of injury literally. But I wanted him to think of it clinically and not be freaked out by it so we took pictures and stuff like that and then I told him, I said: well I'm going to - don't tell your mother - but I'm gonna leave with these ambulance people now and I'll be home probably tomorrow, because I know how things work, and he comes running to the door and he goes: dad, dad what's the key to unlock the Xbox? I'm like: okay you're gonna be fine by yourself. First time he was by himself, he's thinking about the Xbox so, all right! Oh my gosh you crack me up. What else do you want to talk about relative to CAD tools? I'm looking at my notes here - you were talking about something - you talked about the buses, nomenclature and index based even that you'd said you hate those. So what else did we not cover? I think the main thing is just how productive can you be? How well is it designed? And I was impressed by early CAD, which came out at like $4.99 in the 80s and we were like: whoa! I mean it's like that old monochrome purse, now there's PCs right -  late 80s and the things you can do where if you copy a bunch of address lines, you can tell it when to paste it, auto-increment all those address lines as if I was continuing to do them. So if I grab a 0 to 7 and I paste it, now 8 to 15 is done for me. Well you can fly, when somebody has thought of things like that to do, you can go rogue. And it has to be controllable - sometimes you go, no I really wanted a zero to seven and -  but there's tools like that, that can really make it. So, just the ability to double click and there's a new segment just like the one above it, tools like that are real important to me where I've just spent too many hours drawing in each line by hand. Right, yeah I love when - well since I've been here at Altium, one of my fun parts of my job has been to help connect our developers with hard-working designers where they can say: do it this way, we don't work that way you know, it's really nice when CAD tools will actually get together with the guys that are watching and just watch 'em work and go: oh   - because again it's easy for developers even if they've laid out boards - to make assumptions right. So I really love it when tool manufacturers actually take that into consideration and I love that we're doing that more and more these days. BOM distributor integration? Uh it's probably the one thing we didn't have in the old days BOM integration where, and even picking the footprints, we had a three-ring binder of IPC footprints   and that was always a step where errors could occur. I'm thinking this way, PCB designer's thinking that way, wrong footprint gets in there. But then even now, we can with Altium, for example, you see the part as it's a digi-key or arrow and you can make an attempt to select a part. Now; sounds great, but you end up getting into trouble when you go: oh wow, now I have to redo it for real, for the auto, for - I still call it auto insertion - for the pick and place. You know or, guess what? The stock status isn't quite what you thought it is, there's a delay in there and so now you're stalled, so you still have to, I think in my world, I still do a final BOM as a spreadsheet literally. But I get a lot closer in the tool. In the old days we were using microfiche if you didn't have the data book right? So nowadays it's integrated so it - again you have to be careful - it's a tool, it won't do your work for you and that's the thing. I was just going to say - I've worked with also like hiCAD and now KiCAD... however they pronounce it. I know, I never know how to say it either. Yeah and it was good in that you could add modules to it. It was bad in that you could add modules to it. I kind of wanted already the 3d viewer working - ready to play with it and stuff like that. I'm really impressed with Proteus instead of EAGLE for that low-end market, not up here where Altium is, but that's when I was shooting  little two inch by two inch boards for Hackaday and I'm doing a complete design every month and doing a video, and so I design it and it gets a minute of video time right. Then I throw it away to start on the next one. So it's called ARES and unfortunately the other one is ISIS, (nobody likes that name anymore), but that's the product name and they have an amazing auto router in there that'll get you a good completion, whereas if you've ever tried EAGLE it's like why do I even try the auto router you know? So that turns out to be in, and they singled out the maker market by including Arduino in issuing 80 mega parts in simulation and firmware simulation so now you can simulate it as if you've written the code. You don't even need to build the board to see if it works. And that's a cool feature. And we didn't talk about simulation - almost all CAD tools these days do include SPICE of some sort or a SPICE portal or something like that, and that's useful if you're down in the analog stuff especially. Again still just a tool. I've seen SPICE lie horribly to you,  and you think it's going to work and it's really an artifact of zero volts or something like that. Well there's a lot of talk these days about - because so many really capable designers like you, and like many people I know have learned this over a lifetime right - so if you're a new designer where are you gonna on board that outside of just one-on-one mentoring? Like any clues? There's some good YouTubes out there, but I haven't found where you can -  one, I don't have the attention span to watch somebody else work for five hours to pick up a couple tips right. So it's in the YouTubes showing you what they want to show you, but the best way is literally to be near somebody that's really good at it that's -  unfortunately that's the best way - it's almost always like people almost pair off in engineering where one guy's learning from another even if they swap roles later that day because he's better at something else. That's just kind of the way it ends up going. Yup, so I think what you're saying is find a mentor if you're not really good at it. Right yeah and vice versa and mentor others. So I was talking about the wire, on each and every C128 board. Okay, oh yeah actually Ben Jordan snuck that to me. So let's go into war stories a little bit and let's talk about 'the wire' also I'll get a screenshot of this I think Ben or do you have it? [Bill reaches over to show C128 board] That's so cool okay for - oh my gosh okay, so for those of you that are listening to this on the straight-up podcast you need to go to this portion and look at the YouTube just to see this giant board that he's pulling out of the Commodore 128 and look at the keyboard. This is what we call a 'barn door stop' it's too big to be a regular doorstop and that keyboard I designed by looking down at my BT 220 and I said, hey it works for me it'll work for future users too. I'll hold it up to the microphone for users at home right Okay. But there is a wire on each and every... we made 5.7 million of these. Oh okay. Wait before you go into the wire story, give us the stats on Commodore 64 going towards it and compare that to the Apple because I thought it was really interesting. Yeah the - and actually I narrated a video by a company called Junk Food about the - called the 8-Bit Generation, and I learned some things - our version of history wasn't quite as clean-cut as to who was the first and the best computer company out there so I'll give a little props there. But we often said, Apple's just using our parts, because we made the 6502. Well that's the processor they used, but we made the chip. So in our minds Apple did come out and they were first to get a floppy drive and some color early on, but then we come whooshing by them with the Commodore 64 whereas they sold 5 million of the Apple 2 that you're always seeing on every show about the 80s right. You see a show about Silicon Valley: 'we created the home computer' I don't agree, sorry I'm from Commodore I am a competitor and we made 27 million Commodore 64's we had all 64K, we had these cool color chips and sound chips that they didn't have and we could do animation because we have these things called Sprites, except Sprite was trademarked by Texas Instruments so we had to call 'em movable object blocks, but everybody called them Sprites, so you could write a game right and the blocks are moving themselves around, you're not having to rewrite that whole screen and everything so it was an amazing computer and we called it the 'Apple killer' because we actually stopped talking about Apple. Yeah then my boss wanted to kill Sinclair, remember the Timex Sinclairs? I don't. They're little tiny door stops now - I actually did use one of those for a doorstop and then the marketing department saw that and so suddenly every door in marketing has a Sinclair holding it open... That's so funny I don't even remember that one which I'm kind of surprised. I was kind of tuned in at that time but not that tuned in I guess. It was a $50 computer and actually, when the basic ran, the screen would go to crap because it couldn't share the BUS, remember I talked about that earlier, and then they came out with a color one and and it was cheap. I mean the Commodore 64 was $299 - by the way the Apple 2 was like $1500, $1700 and we're $299 - and then we did something like we lowered the price to $100 if you send us your old computer. So people were buying Sinclair's for $49, sending them to us to save $50 and that's of course 50 1980-dollars so this was - if you can see it through the microphone here - this was the one of the family that we called Ted and this was basically the Raspberry Pie of the day, it's all in there. The one chip does the video and the sound, and there's a processor. Oh and the video sound chip runs all the D-RAM and does all the crazy interfaces to the keyboard. So it's literally like very close to a single chip board even though there was nine in the original - nine chips - yeah you cracked open an IBM PC and there was 280 something like that. That's crazy and even the 128, as big as that was, had a couple couple tens of chips in there. So and then Jack Turmel unfortunately left Commodore and this product I was showing, this Ted thing. Without him there to drive the vision, that product kind of failed and we even had a talking version. We had snagged the guys from TI Speak and Spell, which was a big thing in the 80s and we had them working at Commodore, so we had a talking version of a computer with a desktop that Apple tell you later they invented the desktop. Well no. The guys at PARC invented it but we had one, it was just our founder left and it floundered without the founder. Crazy, okay show us the wire. Okay, so then the 128. What happened was I had gone to a CES show and by the way CES shows drove everything for us, Consumer Electronics Shows, mostly cuz if you ask them if they'll move it a day so you can hit your schedule they'll say no, so the CES show is - this is a scheduled date you cannot miss - you can't miss it by five minutes, you can't miss it by a day and so we decided - and by we I mean the engineers, we didn't even really tell management about the C128 till it was too late and then we would do things to it. Like I added a z80 processor so it became - it's Commodore 64 compatible - so suddenly nobody's going to complain at me because there's no software, can run all the old software, but then turns out the z80 cartridge didn't work very well on the Commodore 64, so I just put the z80 right in the board and after the PC board Rev was done I said: oh by the way I added the z80, they knew they couldn't tell me to take it out now or we'll miss CES. So then pretty soon the guy would be: I had a great idea to leave the z80 in there   you're like, cool go tell marketing, take a doorstop with you right. So one of the things we did is, even as we're getting ready for the CES show - it was January 6th that year I think - we're already getting ready for FCC, so we're working on the final production and that's all in five months. I started this near August and we had six -  five or six customized C's that needed to be done and so again that was our wheelhouse - this is custom, this is custom, this is custom, that - one of the other ones in here - and we're going like the wind right. Well right near the end, the z80 stopped working reliably. It wouldn't boot CPM 20% of the time, and me and my boss were fighting. It's bound to happen right, he'd already gotten his bonus I think to let me go around barefooted was like wearing thin right. But the - - oh, I lost my train of thought that almost never happens when you get old… [laughter] You fought? Oh I was fighting with the boss and he said: fine, I'll give it to somebody else to fix that problem! I said: fine, I'll take a shower and go home and get a nap! Right, so for a week, I mean I had a great week. I caught up on my hygiene,  (I won't tell you some of the other things you do when you're full of testosterone when you're young). But he comes to my office Friday, and in my mind he puffed on his cigar (you could still smoke in the office back then). I don't know if he had a cigar that day, but that's my memory and he goes: fix it or you're fired. I'm, oh sure I can do that, you're ready now for me to rejoin the workforce? Absolutely, I'm clean, I get along with people, and I just happen to luck out where I'm -   the oscilloscopes of the day weren't like the Tektronix MSO scopes - like I got back there, I had to turn it up real bright, and then I would stare at it and then turn and look at a wall and I would see the reverse image and I go: there's a glitch right there - I'm pointing at it so someone can see it because he hasn't burned his retinas staring into the light - and they think I'm nuts, and I was right. There was a glitch on this A10 line, when the z80 was the processor, but when the 6502 was the processor there's no glitch. I mean it's right around when the D Rams were doing something and so it comes down to understanding how a signal propagates down and this is part of PC board layout right. And I liken it to when the 6502 was driving the length of the line that drove it all the way to the end, like playing a flute correctly, but when the z80 drove it from an extension down the line it was like blowing into one of the holes on the flute and it's kind of not - and so I got a standing wave, where the wave’s going back and forth and bouncing into itself and it just happened to do it on A10 at the wrong time and I caught it on the scope in an hour. Of course nobody believes me right, so and the way I made it work, was I took that wire that I showed you that's redundant. There's already a trace on the PC board, I just soldered this again so now it's actually a loop right it can't bounce - - Ah it had a return path, okay. Yeah or propagates like this,  but either way it's not a standing wave anymore at a certain spot, and it just happened to be that spot was the multiplexer for the D-RAMs and they think I'm nuts right because not only do I fix it an hour, I fixed it with a wire! So we ran 10,000 units to prove that Herd's gone off the deep end and we got a hundred percent pass rate on it. It actually fixed the problem. So now the wire drives me nuts because there's 5.7 million wires out there and people said: why didn't you just change the PC board? It's like: because actually I found it this time, if there were no tools to do anything, if I change the PC board I might have moved a glitch to somewhere I can't find right. So the devil you know - and that's how it ended up going out. That's crazy  - and from by the way - having a background in EMS. For an EMS provider, to have to put a wire on five million boards, that's crazy nobody would do that today but it's cool! We called it post solder assembly and it's horribly expensive that's five point seven million dollars. It probably cost $1, the wire was a penny and 99 cents to put it on there, so we just did that. There was one other fun issue with the schedule of the 128. Okay. At one point - and see we didn't have real deep analyzers and stuff - so when the processor goes flying off the tracks because the memory is corrupted you'd go, well when in the last two minutes or two million cycles did the corruption occur? Because the analyzer's not going to catch it, unless you're so lucky right. So one of the things I noticed is, it would corrupt in the video memory and the video's memory is being scanned 15,000 times, 60 cycles a second and so I took a light pin and I put it on this spot on the screen right where the corruption would occur and I sent my analyzer, so soon as the spot on the screen occurred the light pen triggered my analyzer. And it's actually a commodore light pin - I still have it - was actually plugged into the joystick port of the system on troubleshooting and it turns out - it was called ground lift, and you're probably familiar with that. There was a stub of a little over an eighth of an inch on the ground pin of a DRAM multiplexer, and it's inductance mixed with the capacitance meant it would come off of ground when you went to switch a whole bunch of zeros to a one - except for one - that other one became a one also it just dragged everything with it. Oh, got it. Yeah and I also took - literally another little piece of wire - fixed it and then I yelled at Fish to fix. That one I made him fix but the only way we could catch it in that case, is I used a light pin to catch this little 1/8 inch piece of trace that was just playing with me. Well you know what I love about these stories Bill, is that I think it's lovely to tell them and show people what a Wild West it was and how we solved, but people like you solved things really simply because now we sit on all these really complex tools and really we stand on the shoulders of people like you right, who were innovating back in the day where we did not have the complexity of tools or things and it's easy to take those things for granted now because so much can just run in the background and you so I think it's fascinating to hear these really - like these MacGyver ways that you figured out how to fix it - you're like the original PCB design MacGyver dude. So one other quick story and it goes right to that - about the tools and the software simulations and things and it's the day I knew I was working in the right place. And this isn't my story - this actually is the chip designer stories for the Ted, for that thing I showed you. They had design roll checks when they laid out an ICs that told him if two things got too close to each other, but they didn't have an electrical rule check to tell 'em if it's supposed to be shorted together or not, so they turned a corner. They had like A7, A8 and A9 cut right across the other to address lines and it shorted 'em out, and they had no way to check that - unless they hand looked at every plot of every layer of what made up an integrated circuit. Well they - meanwhile cost a quarter million dollars to do another run. So what they did - I'm in the hardware lab, and the guy goes: okay turn on that - turn on the microscope light. Okay turn it off - good we're in NTSC mode. And I turn and I look and I'm like: did you just flip the status of a register with photons while looking at it under the microscope? And he goes: yeah uh huh, and I'm like: AH I'm in the right place, this is where I wanna be! Yeah and they didn't have the tools that told them if what was on the schematics, what made it onto the chip. So yeah and they would spend five months, with a ruler actually called a scale, checking the plot. That's the only way they could do it. That's amazing well thank you for sharing this - unfortunately we're running out of time. But thank you so much for sharing your history and your ingenuity and the stories of Commodore and giving our listeners really some practical ways of just jumping into a new tool, if they have to right, nobody likes change but I'm sure you would attest to that overall has probably helped you become a better designer to go ahead and jump in and you could probably jump into a new tool easily now it probably doesn't freak you out as much as it used to. If you know you're going to be overwhelmed, then you're right on schedule when you get overwhelmed - and then you just go back into it and you know, how do you eat an elephant? A bite at a time - same thing. Just acceptance that it's going to be frustrating and this is the cycle. Yeah that you'll screw it up and then fix it, just don't ruin your libraries in the process. Okay, well some good, good wisdom. So thank you again Bill for your time, it's been a delight to hear about everything and I just by the way - best background - those of you listening, you really need to go look at the YouTube version of this, because his lab looks like you'd all want to go live in it man it looks like there's everything in there it's awesome. What's up with the penguin by the way? There's a penguin, that looks like it's standing on your shoulders? On the telly, it used to be on top of the oscilloscope but now it's just with you so that's that's a Monty Python penguin, that's from our era right? Totally, that is so funny! Okay, well thank you again for joining myself and Bill Herd today on Altium's OnTrack podcast. I'll make sure to share all of his colorful links and Wikipedia and videos from Hackaday and thanks for joining us again. We'll see you next time - until then remember to always stay on track.  

If you love choppy beats, mesmorizing vocals, latin flavour grooves and meldoics that take you on a spin, then your in for a treat in this months edition on D3EP Radio Network! Nakai goes deep this month and of course pure quality! Streaming out of Zürich, kick back and enjoy this 2 hour musical journey. Subscribe to the iTunes and leave a message to show your love. Hey I'm on insta, come and lets have a talk! Nakai on Instagram Tracklist Chappier - Aiyra Arbat - Prometheus Ki Creighton feat. Jem Cooke - Love is Here System2 - Play (One Night. Edit) Krystal Klear - Neutron Dance Perel - Alles Till Von Sein - Ocean Love Adriatique - Ray Whitesquare - Traces To Nowhere Flashmob - The Lone Brazilian Michael A - My Style Stereocalpyse - Blue Dome Escargot Patrice Bäumel - Serpent Anii - Korzenie Au/Ra & CamelPhat - Panic Room Stella - A State Nearby Armonica - Ngeke Pional - Tempest Lone - Temples (One Night. Tune of the month) Karim Sahraoui - Before the 2nd Coming

Linda: Has it already happened? Katrina: Yeah. It still says starting. Get your head in the picture, because otherwise you're revealing the trick about our cushions. When your head when down, it just looked like a weird cushion arrangement behind us. Linda: There's some crazy talking going on over here. Katrina: Get rid of it. Kill it dead. Linda: What is this? Katrina: Is that a cage to keep humans in? Linda: Oh my God! No, he's wearing pants. Katrina: What are you doing? Linda: He's wearing pants, it's okay. But I got excited there for a minute. Katrina: Creepy cage for humans. Linda: Hello! Katrina: I'm just getting a little insight into this YouTube selection. Alright. Linda: Hi, we need to pay attention to this. We're here. Katrina: We're present and in attendance. I was on a plane like an argon, I'm just like a freaking professional. Linda: You literally just walked up. Katrina: I just walked off a plane. There might have been three full-blown temper tantrum on that plane had by one of my children. It was much wine required. Linda: And, this took a little bit of time. Let's just be - Katrina: This took a little bit of time to make the set fabulous. Wait, wait. I haven't even shared this. Only on my business page. I'm going to share it to my own page. Hang on, everybody. Just wait. You're going to have to wait. I'm just going to entertain you. Linda: I'm going to entertain you. Katrina: I'm sitting with what will come out of me, I'm unsure. Linda: We were about to call ... What were we going to call the live feed? Katrina: You wanted to call it "Whatever the Fuck Comes Out." Which is actually very accurate. Linda: Yes, we have this amazing set up going on. Katrina: It is amazing, look at it. Hang on, we've had a cushion fail. Linda: Oh my God. Katrina: There's been a cushion fail already. Linda: Fail. Katrina: Hello, hello, hello people in my live stream. Linda: Hello, kids and hello people in mine. We should introduce each other. Katrina: Oh that's an idea. People could just figure it out. Linda: People could just figure out who we are. It would be pretty cool if I choose you to my people. My people. You introduce me to your people. Katrina: That's impressive between peoples. Begin, begin. Begin while I share this. I'm going to share it into my group and then to my other page. Linda: Aw look, that's us. Katrina: We look amazing. It is what it is. Linda: Katrina Routh is a serial internet breaker. Katrina: That's actually true. She just wrote me a small, beautiful card. And in there it's some flowers and my favourite chocolates, and some vegemite. Linda: She deserves it, let's face it. Katrina: I came home to this little, I'm going to call it an alter, to me. But in the card- Linda: It was an expression of love. Katrina: But in the card she said, "to the woman who breaks the internet every day." Linda: I did, I did. Katrina: It was beautiful, actually. Thank you. Linda: No worries, well thank you. For having me in your space. But I mean, who wouldn't want to have me in your space. Katrina: All the time. Thank you M.D. alright, last introduction. I think I [inaudible 00:03:22] your introduction. Linda: You did. That's all she cares. No, I'm kidding. Katrina: You can figure the rest out. Linda: She breaks the internet, apart of that, she's my soul sister friend and she's a kick ass entrepreneur. I really, really honour and admire how much she's standing on truth and just kick ass on the internet. Katrina: And all. Thank you. For those who don't know the amazing, talented, and fabulous Linda Docta, here she is. I've prepared her in the flesh earlier. Many of you know us both and follow us both, but for those who don't know, Linda is one of the ... I'm going to say it this way, because this is the simplest way to explain just how highly I think of this one. Linda is one of the few people in the world whose post I consistently read because she's an incredible messenger and writer. And you know, I'm a content creator, not a consumer. I don't consumer a lot of content from other people. I do consume some people. I consumer some people, and I consume some people's content. But Linda's posts are incredible. She's an incredible [inaudible 00:04:37]. You're one of the few people who is not afraid to say what's actually inside of her, and to share what's coming from the soul. As you know, that's what I believe its all got to be about. That's just one reason why we gt along so well. We have a relationship that is predominately on, somewhat, almost an embarrassing amount of audio messages per day. That goes back and forth from all around the world. Linda: They do. Even in the house. When was it? Before you went to Melbourne. You were downstairs, I was upstairs. And you were audioing me and listening to my audio. Katrina: So we don't hang out in person that often, but Linda's here staying in my home for a few days before she jets off again. And often, I don't know, I'm over in American and she's in Sydney, or I'm in Bali and she's in Melbourne, or wherever we are. Now you're going to be in other places around the world, and I'll be here. That's how it is. So we don't see each other in person that often. What just happened? Okay, Linda's phone literally just turned itself off. Katrina: Alright, well you're going to reboot your phone and we're going to start again. Linda: What is this? Katrina: That's it, you broke the internet. Linda: I did break the internet. Katrina: You can't go around saying shit like that. Linda: It's okay, I'm going to share your post onto my ... Oh. Katrina: Yeah, but that shouldn't have turned itself off. Linda: I don't know. Katrina: Oh, well that's because of that. The turned off because that turned off. Linda: Yeah, it did. Katrina: Linda's phone just completely powered itself down. Linda: We're just going to do it on one phone. Katrina: Just start it again, I reckon. So, we don't meet in person. Katrina: Would you want to put yours back on again? Do yours. Katrina: We don't meed in person too often, but then when we do, it's like no time has passed because we're speaking on audio all the time, every single day, and that's how I feel about all my soulmate people around the world. You sometimes feel confused as to when you last saw them in the physical world because you're connecting with them in other worlds so continuously, right? But anyway, she came in here, when was is? Thursday last week or something. And I'm downstairs eating my little midnight snack, as I do, standing at the kitchen bench. Katrina: Okay, let's wait until this starts again. And we'll tell the story. And I'll just tell it anyway because it might take a while to get going. Yeah so, I'm downstairs in the kitchen, which is just through there. And I'm listening to audios as I do often at 1 A.M. or something, and so then I'm listening to Linda's audio message, and then I realise she's actually upstairs in the bedroom, in one of the spare bedrooms. I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm so addicted to listening to audios from you that I'm still listening to audios from you when you're in my house, upstairs, sleeping." And then I'm writing back. Even though I'll see her in the morning at 6 A.M. I'm like, "I can't wait for that, I'm going to need to audio now." Linda: Peoples! We broke the internet. Yes, I already did tag that girl. She's tagged. Peoples, we already broke the internet. Katrina: Linda's phone spontaneously combusted itself. Linda: It did. Katrina: Self-combusted. So, anyway. You missed the story over there on Linda's side. Linda: Sorry, guys. Katrina: Sorry about that. Linda: She was just telling an awesome story, and I kind of feel a bit like I should have gone more with my intro about you. Because that was really beautiful, thank you for that. Katrina: You made me an altar. Linda: I did. Katrina: That was pretty next level. I've got to take a photo of it, later. Linda: Oh I've got to post that stuff. But that was a beautiful expression, because what you said about speaking truth, because I'm just a reflection of you. You know that, right? You are a woman who just stands in her power, in her truth. Katrina: Thank you. Linda: And you always have been. You're just not afraid to say what's flowing through you. Katrina: It's sometimes scary, though. But thank you. Linda: Yeah, no it's amazing. I admire that. Katrina: Well it's been agreed we're both amazing. I just think we can finish there. Linda: See you, later. Cheers! Katrina: Cheers to being amazing. Linda: Cheers. And this is funny because I never drink. [inaudible 00:08:37] Katrina: Never, never. Linda: I feel so naughty. Katrina: Continually breaking the internet now. Well my new programme is part of the internet, so it's only appropriate. But, it is so relevant because the more you stand in your power and in your truth, isn't it true that you're just going to attract in those soulmate people who stand in their truth, and so then you honour that person, like I honour you, for the way you sharpen them, you're honouring me. And then it's just going to turn into a never ending cycle of we both think the other one is amazing, which means that it's a reflection of us. Linda: Yeah! Katrina: It just keeps going. Linda: It's like, you're amazing. No you're amazing. You're amazing. Katrina: Exactly. Linda: And then, it ends up being an altar on the kitchen table. Katrina: You end up coming home off a flight from the other side of the country, and you walk in and your soul sister forever finds you an altar on the kitchen table, vegemite included in the altar. Linda: You know what I should have done? I should have just laid myself down on the table, naked. Katrina: You're reminding me of this thing from Sex and The City, where the guy lays ... No, she's about to lay down naked with sushi all over her body. What's his name? The young guy that she's dating? And then he doesn't come home, though. And then she's laying there on the table for hours covered in sushi, and he just never comes home. He comes home like four hours later or something. And she's still laying there covered in sushi. Katrina: Okay, I was going to do a nice segue into the conscious relationships conversation, but instead we're talking about Samantha from Sex and the City covered naked in sushi. Linda: See, we should have called it Whatever the Fuck comes out. Katrina: Well we were just saying, it is the perfect union to the topic of conscious relationships, which may or may not be what we talk about. Because it will be whatever the fuck comes out. Linda: Exactly. Katrina: But that's ... People say to me all the time, I'm sure you hear this as well. But probably one of the most common things I do hear from people in my community is what an amazing friendship, when they see me with my soul sister friends, right? Like I'll get comments on that a lot, like, "Wow, what an incredible, beautiful friendship." Okay, oh my God. Jermaine literally just wrote what I'm talking about. She wrote, "Gorgeous ladies, #soulmatefriendgoals." Linda: Aw, that's amazing. Thank you. Katrina: So I hear that all the time because I do only have women in my life who are deep, soul sister connected friends. Deep soul sister, however you want to say it. And that's definitely ... Katrina: Okay, you have a marriage proposal over there. I think we should address it. Linda: Aww. Katrina: That's not a wall, actually, Maria, that's a painting that my sister-in-law painted for me. It's not a wall, it's a painting. Linda: Do we need to address this marriage proposal? Katrina: Linda's been proposed to. Linda: I've been proposed to. Katrina: On her live steam. Linda: What should I say? Katrina: We'll consider your offer. We'll get back to you. Linda: Let me sit with it. Katrina: What does your soul say? Linda: Stop, stop now. Stop now. Katrina: What does your soul have to say about this? What are we going to talk about? Where is this conversation going? Linda: I don't know. Katrina: Do you think that life just gets better and better and easier and easier? Linda: I think so. Katrina: Do you think that we have almost an inappropriate amount of fun, except that nobody realises that you meant to have so much fun all the time? Linda: Yeah but here's the thing. I go in and out of having a lot of fun and then sometimes I get very, very serious in my work. Katrina: Sometimes you get a litter angry. Linda: What do you mean? Katrina: When the passion really comes out. Warrior Linda. Linda: You've had some amazing audio from me lately. Katrina: I've seen the warrior ninja come through a few times. I've seen the [inaudible 00:12:13] ninja, as well, in fact it was doing back flips in my bedroom the other night. Linda: She calls me an "it." Katrina: I meant the ninja. I'm calling it an it, it's an extension of you. Okay, go, you were saying about getting serious. Linda: No, but I have another story. See, I swap stories. I'm a Gemini, just to let you know. I'm a Gemini, so I start a sentence, and then I never finish. And I start another one, I don't finish that either. So I start three different stories in one go. Katrina: And then meanwhile, I'll be doing the exact same thing [inaudible 00:12:46]. Linda: And then she cuts me off and we never get anywhere. Katrina: So, if you're hoping to take some kind of orderly notes from this evening's session, we're going to need to let you know that's not going to happen. But sit back, buckle up, enjoy the ride, and trust you will receive whatever it is that you'll hear divinely to receive. Linda: Whatever your soul is wanting to receive, it's always the perfect timing. Katrina: Exactly. Linda: What I was saying - Katrina: You said sometimes you get really serious. Linda: No, before that. There was another story that cuts off what I was saying. I need to finish this story, first. Katrina: Just let it come on. Linda: It comes out really fast. So, only today, because you were talking about the ninja stuff. I only got a reminder in my phone, in my memories, that it was only a year ago exactly, I was competing in the ninja championship. Katrina: Was that already a year ago? Linda: Yeah, yep. It was. Katrina: So cool. Linda: So what I was saying before the ninja, that yeah, I feel myself going in and out of having a lot of fun, and fun is one of my highest values. Katrina: Yeah. Linda: And play vibrates the same as prey. Play is one of the highest vibrations, so - Katrina: Explain that. Linda: Imagine having fun, like think about the vibration you're in when you're having fun. Like think about how you're actually feeling, there's no ego when you're just full of joy. When you just ... you're immersed in this bubble of love and joy. An ego doesn't exist in that moment, it's just an embodiment of excitement, fun, love. Katrina: You're completely present. Linda: Exactly. You're fully present. Katrina: An ego can't be there when you're completely present. Linda: No, it can't. Katrina: I just had breakthrough moment, already. Not being a smart ass, either, it sounded slightly like I was. Isn't that a powerful concept. Linda: Is it. It is. And I continue to remind myself to have fun, because sometimes I feel like, oh shit, maybe I'm just caught up too much in my serious side, or introspection. Katrina: You are one of the most fun people I know and I'll give you a case study. Linda: Case study? Katrina: Case study. Linda: I cannot guarantee what she's going to say tonight, so. Katrina: It's not that outrageous. But one time I wanted to take my friends to the indoor ... children's ... my friends? - I wanted to make my children to the indoor, you know they have the indoor play centres, right? It was a really rainy Saturday on the Gold Coast sometime last year, back in [inaudible 00:15:14]. My kids are driving me crazy, I'm like, I've got to go to the indoor play centre, but I was like, I need some adult time. I was actually just losing my shit. And I was like, "Who can I invite to come to an indoor kid's play centre with me?" And all my friends who had kids were occupied or busy already, and I'm like which of my friends who doesn't have kids could I invite to come to the indoor play centre with me? I'm like, Linda. Obviously. Katrina: So I audioed her, I'm like, "Hey do you want - it's called Juddlebugs - I'm like do you want to come to Juddlebugs?" She's like, "What's Juddlebugs?" I'm trying to describe it, I'm like "There's like a netting thing you get trapped in and you fall down, and there's slides and you can shoot people and then there's a foam pit." And she's like, "How have I never heard of this?" Linda: And I was going off on you. How dare you not tell me there's a place called Juddlebugs? How dare you? Katrina: But we had the best afternoon. We got trapped upside down in the spiderweb for an unreasonable ... We nearly did a live stream up there. Linda: We did, almost. Katrina: That would be inappropriate. But you are a fun orientated person and I think I've learned a lot about having fun. Kids themed party for adults, that's an awesome idea, AJ. Linda: Oh, yeah. Was I having this conversation with you, AJ? We need to create, yeah you were only saying that the other day at breakfast, yesterday. Katrina: Yeah, I've learned a lot about having fun from you, but I think that that concept of there being no ego in it, is really, really interesting and really powerful. And it's a reminder that if we can get into being present, then I think ... Okay, fun is one thing, then I think we also, that is the place where we access our highest [inaudible 00:16:53] areas, in terms of, for example, greatest creative flow, right? I know that when I get into silliness, playing, silliness, being frivolous, maybe a little bit reckless, or kind of making a fool of yourself, that sort of thing, sometimes I don't know, I'd be curious to know if you feel this way, sometimes when I get really silly and really kind of frivolous and lighthearted, I'll feel a slight shame feeling afterwards. For self-consciousness, where I feel a little - Linda: Like you're judging yourself? Katrina: Do I embarrass myself, did I make a fool of it? Linda: The ego comes back in? Katrina: Yeah, the ego's coming back in afterwards. But then, at the same time, and I'll notice it afterwards, and it feels kind of like a walk of shame type of feeling. Like, did I really do that? And the thing is though, that I don't allow that to infiltrate me and stop me from going wherever I go in my energy when I'm on a live stream, for example, or whatever it is I'm doing in any situation. Because I know that I get into such an amazing creative flow and I get all the downloads when I'm in that place. But then afterwards, my human mind will come back in and be like, "Oh you probably pushed it a little too far," or, "You're making a fool of yourself," or, "People probably think you're off your head." All my judgements come through. Linda: Yeah, yeah. Katrina: But I still do it. I still do it. I notice them and observe them. I'm like, "Okay, thank you for showing up and telling me all the reasons I'm not good enough. I'm going to keep going anyway." Linda: Yeah, yeah. It's amazing to be your own observer. Here's the thing, we all have an inner child within us. We all have an inner child, and sometimes when we get in on this conscious journey of growth and conscious growth and there's ego and then there's a spiritual ego that can come and slap - Katrina: Oh, that's a [crosstalk 00:18:39]. Linda: Yeah, yeah. So I've definitely been wacked left, right, and centre by the spiritual ego sometimes. As you start moving through this experience, you go into that judgement of, "Now I can't be silly because I'm conscious or spiritual." Katrina: Ah, I so nearly put a post up tonight, I'm not even kidding, the only reason I didn't post this on Facebook an hour ago is because I just posted to say we're going to do this. Linda: Well, see, who's a mind reader. Katrina: And I nearly wrote something like, "Be careful not to get so fucking involved that you can't," I don't know. I can't even remember what then ending of what I was going to say is. That like, you become so freaking involved that your whole thing is how involved you are. Linda: Yeah. Katrina: Be careful of the ego that is attached to walking around being like, "Oh I've had all the ego deaths." Yeah, but that's ego, so. And we all do it. Spiritual ego. Linda: Yeah, it's a very interesting concept and to ... I love being my own observer of just allowing myself to be with ease, I don't go into judgement that often. I'm like, "Okay, that was a fascinating, internal response." Katrina: Right, that's similar to what I'll say to myself, like curiosity. Linda: Yeah, it's like, okay. Katrina: Observation. Linda: Okay, that was fascinating. I'm interested why I responded internally that way. Katrina: Yeah, that was an interesting [inaudible 00:20:06]. Linda: And still, I've moved away from that judgement , I'm just like, "I wonder where that came from?" Katrina: Yeah, that's actually really similar to ... I talk about that a lot with clients, as well. I definitely still have those self judgmental reactions come through, but the way that I persist them is curiosity or lightheartedness. My two favourite ones. Linda: Really important. Katrina: When I say lightheartedness, let's say you said something or did something, maybe on a Facebook live like this, or maybe in a one-on-one conversation with somebody, and you really feel that you went quite far with vulnerability and you exposed yourself, and then you go out of that situation and you feel like a need to protect yourself or you feel like maybe you went too far and you put yourself in some vulnerable space or place, and then maybe the judgements comes up, like it could either be, "Yeah, well that was an interesting choice, I wonder why I chose to do that, let me get curious about that," or it could literally be like, "Oh, how silly, how cute. That's really funny, I wonder why I chose that." Or it could even be you did something that really caused some sort of sabotage, right? We've both spoken publicly many times about backgrounds of self-sabotage, and then those old patterns can sometimes try to continue to knock on the door. Many times, people ... I don't want to call it relapse, maybe not the best word, not my favourite word anyway. But many times, people will pick up an old sabotaging pattern and then they'll tend to feel like, "I'm bad, and I'm weak willed, and I got to hate on myself, and why did I do this?" Katrina: And instead, and I speak about this a lot with a lot of clients who have struggled with binge eating and if the binge eating comes back ... I have bulimia for 10 years, so I understand it, right? And they'll be like, "Oh my God, this is fucked up, what did I do?" And I'm like, "Wait no, what if instead, it was 'Oh, wow. I wonder why you needed that? Let's get curious about that. What was it inside you that needed that?'" Or also, even to smile about something that perviously felt so heavy and to make it lighthearted. It takes the power out of it and actually gives you back your power. Linda: Yeah, yeah. And conscious, when I say, because we said in the title "Conscious Relationship" it's not just conscious relating with another person or in an actual partnership or relationship, it's also how we're consciously relating to ourselves and what kind or relationship we're having to ourselves. Katrina: 100% Linda: And I think that's even more important to dive into, because if you don't understand yourself, then how can you consciously relate to another human being, if you don't understand your own ways of internal response and dimension and your operation system. Katrina: Yeah, I love that, and it's funny because I think when we said we'd talk about conscious relationships, we said that to each other earlier today, and I think we sort of thought, relationships with other people, but when I was on the plane just before, I was thinking, I feel like this is going to be more about the relationship with self, because the place that we create epic relationships with other people from, even an amazing friendship, an amazing client-mentor relationship. I always say that my clients, so many clients, it wasn't always that way. It could be a romantic relationship, as well. All the different relationships. In order to call it or allowing or flowing to incredible incredible conscious relationships with other individuals, we have to first be in an incredible conscious relationship with our own selves. Linda: Absolutely. Katrina: And in a space of non-judgment, understanding, compassion, and full acceptance. Linda: I only wrote a blog about that this morning. That I got inspired by someone who asks me yesterday, "Linda, why haven't you been swept off your feet yet?" And I didn't get triggered or anything like that, it just simply inspired me to talk about it openly and to express myself why that is, and just put a little slightly different perspective on it, as well. And take it into the relating with self, because if we want someone to show up for us, if we want someone to be present with us, we have to be present with ourselves, first. We have to show up for ourselves, first. Linda: Quite often, we're longing for something, we're wanting, we're even needing. So there's a needing ness and you are filling a void within us, that we haven't even actually given ourselves. And if we're not giving ourselves, then how can we truly experience that outside of ourselves? Katrina: Well you learn you receive from others what you're giving to yourself. That's the reality. So if you feel, maybe sometimes you get frustrated or angry, this happens a lot with coaches and with their clients, and it happens with men and women in romantic relationships, it even happens in friendships and family dynamics, also. I guess I hear it fairly frequently in the coaching industry, "I seem to have all these clients who are behind on their payments," or whatever, right? Some sort of pardon like that. And it's always like, "Okay cool, this is great, this is great feedback and information because this is a great opportunity to look at where am I not honouring myself?" Linda: Absolutely. Katrina: And yeah, the think with relationships that I think sometimes we all forget, I know give forgotten this or put it aside at times, is there'll always be instability there. The goal is not to get to some sort of place of done, sorted, everything's predicted and predictable. Imagine how fucking boring that'd be, anyways. But it's growth, relationships are there for our growth, right? Exactly, AJ just that's where we attractively show our voids. Linda: Yeah. Katrina: So when you have people in your life, any area of your life, who you feel like their causing you to feel something, it's always "Wow, thank you, because this allows me to see an area in myself where I wasn't paying attention, where I wasn't honouring myself." Can I give an example that's a little bit naughty? Of course I can. Linda: Are you asking for permission? Katrina: I don't know. I don't know. When I was on the live stream last week, Chris told me not to swear, I was like, "What?" But it's because we were going to use it for a Facebook ad. I'm like, "Mother fucker." He's like, "You can't swear." I'm like, "What do you mean I can't swear?" Katrina: Okay, so I had an awareness only very recently, actually. I had always thought, not always, but I had frequently felt frustrated that when I have sex with Mare, he would very rarely pay attention to my breasts. All men, I don't mean one individual man, right? But it was a pattern that I noticed. I felt frustrated that men would just kind of ignore my breasts. They would sometimes even just leave my top of and just go down there, and not always, but a high percentage of the time. And I definitely had a story in my head that this is because I have fairly small breast and that's the reason why. And I was 100% certain about that. And then, long story short, I realised that, "Holy shit. I never give my breasts love and attention. I never pay attention," previously never. I was never paying them attention, I was not giving them any love, any touch, any affection, I didn't really consider them ... I didn't dislike my breasts at all, actually I find them very practical for fitness reasons, but if we take that story even further back, though, and I did blog about it. Yeah, Marie, I did blog about it a week or two ago. Katrina: Because I'm actually having breast enlargement surgery in two days. And I'm so grateful I realised all this before that was coming through, right? Because that's coming from a place of desire, not from a place of trying to fill a need. But with this, if you go back even further, when I was a teenage, I had really big boobs. And when I was in my late teens. And people would comment on it often and I would wear low cut tops often, and I wasn't heavy either. I just actually had big boobs. But then I would learn from my mom, about be careful because men are going to whatever. I got the message that I was being too sexual, and I really think when I look back now, I think I manifested them way. Because now look, they're like an A cup or whatever, they're a small B, maybe. But yeah, it was just this interesting realisation of I'm walking around going, "What the fuck is with these dudes that don't take the time to touch the rest of my body because that's what I really want and that's really what opens you up as a women, to have that attention to all areas, not just, obviously." Katrina: Whether or not it's obviously, if it's not obvious, now you know. Welcome. And then I'm like, "Oh my God, holy fucking wake up call. I get to love on myself in that area." And I'm not kidding, within four days of when I started to give attention in that area and then I had a sexual experience and it was like, "Yeah, I'm like ..." Linda: But see, this flows into all areas of life. It's not just what we experience with relationships. It's actually in all areas. So I'm just going to invite you into a moment of introspection and to really reflect on in what area of your life are you feeling that, "Oh I'm not receiving what I'm actually wanting?" And you're kind of blocking yourself from that. In what area of you're life, is it maybe money, it is money stuff? What's your relationship with money, how you speak to money, what do you feel about money? If you're someone who wants to contentiously create that or you want to consciously create a beautiful relationship, or experience certain things. Then you have to look inside, first, and check in, are you giving yourself that? That was a beautiful example. That was a really beautiful example. Katrina: And that's a physical example, but it's also with the emotional stuff. Linda: Yeah, yeah. Katrina: And any time we're looking for something to fill a need in us, money is a great example, if I had that money then I'd be safe, I'd be free, then I'd be credible, then I'd be good enough. It's always like, "Oh, wow." As soon as you realise that, how can I give that to myself. Well actually, how you can give any of these things to yourself is to decide to. It's not something you've got to go out and work for. You can do it in this moment. Linda: Absolutely. It's simply a choice. It's decision to do so in an instant because we can so easily get caught up, and like you said before, when I get there, then I'll be good enough. When I lose this weight, then I'll feel good enough, or then I'll feel beautiful. Or that was just one example. Katrina: Or when I make the money then I'm safe or then I'm worthy. Linda: Then I'm successful. Katrina: Then I can relax in my life, then I can have fun in my life, then I can be happy. Or when somebody loves me then this, then this, then this. So anything that we're putting onto a pedestal like that, we're saying, "If I have this thing outside of myself, then I can experience and live in the emotions and energies that I desire." It causes you to actually push it away. It means that you hold the thing that you want at arms length, it's a lesson that you've got to learn. Is that you get to give that to yourself. So when you continue in that pattern, it's kind of like, "Oh, okay cool. I see that you just want to keep learning that same lesson again and again and again." Interesting choice. Linda: Isn't it interesting when the universe continues to teach you the same lessons until you learn? I'm just reflecting back on some of my own patterns, and like, oh my God. Katrina: Right, right. Linda: And it just clicks. I'm like, "Okay, well I haven't been honouring myself in that area," or "I haven't been giving myself attention in that area." Katrina: Yeah. Okay, we're back. We just froze over here. Linda: She broke the internet again. I mean, we broke it. Katrina: You put it into words on the card over there. Linda: I did. Katrina: Now it just keeps happening. Linda: We're manifesting it. Conscious creation. What was I talking about before? Going on tangents. Katrina: You were talking about how there's been times where you've noticed you learning the same lesson again and again and again. And then it's like, "Okay. I'm finally done with learning that lesson." Linda: Yeah, yeah. And the learning can be in an absolute instant. You choose to shift your internal matrix and you just chose to observe what's happening. And you chose to - Katrina: It's an instantaneous decision. Linda: Yeah, absolutely. And how quickly your outer matrix can shift with that. Katrina: Yeah. Completely. Linda: So phenomenal. Katrina: It's amazing. I mean, earlier on this week, you know I was in Bali until Wednesday. I remember Monday, I think ... Well we audio every day, anyway. But I was really feeling kind of stuck and in some heavy energies, and you know where it's up in your face, I get anxiety sometimes. And I was having a pretty extreme anxiety day, which I hadn't had in a while, and I was really just not enjoying that feeling of it. But at the same time, I remember I walked into the gym and I remember saying to myself, "This will shift. As much as in this moment of insane anxiety and feeling frustrated or whatever it was that I was experiencing, as much as that felt real." I was so aware, I guess, from all the work that I've done over the years and the way I live my life, I was like, "This could shift any moment." And from now on I might feel on top of the fucking world and completely understand all my madness and why I was making something into a really big thing. Or I might stay in a state or feeling stuck and anxious and frustrated or trapped or whatever for the whole day, and either what it's okay, either way it is what is, and that's all it is, and that's okay. Katrina: But I think that sometimes when we're in that state of feeling like, "Why can I have what I want and why is money evading me or why is this happening or why is my business here or why are my relationships like this or whatever," that we get so caught up in this kind of story of "This is not fair and why am I getting [inaudible 00:34:18] this instead of just being like this could change in an instant based on your own thoughts," I don't mean based on something happened. I mean based on you suddenly get some new perspective and on that day earlier this week, I said just kind of a simple loose intention in my mind that this will get to shift and that they'll be a way for me to be empowered by this situation that was causing me to feel a bit panicked, and I felt like, "How could that happen?" Because there is something that makes me feel upset. Katrina: And I'm not kidding, like two hours later, I was like, "Holy shit, wow. I feel so grateful for this now because I just realised how I'm not addressing whatever area inside of and that I now get to learn about this, and oh my God, I'm so glad that this happened to cause me to go into this anxiety of this crazy tail spin." I had to sit in it and marinate in it and it didn't feel fun, but even when you're in that state, like we know that it's for our greater good, right? Linda: Always. Katrina: So we might be like, "Ah this feels like shit. This has been dragged through the ringer, and put on a freaking spin cycle and then you go ten rounds after that, and then somebody" ... But you still know that it's for your learning and growth. So even in the mists of the worst of it, you're like, "And I'm getting fucking strong as a mother fucker." Watch me grow. Linda: Watch me grow, watch me expand. Katrina: We talk about this all the time. Linda: We do, we do. I think it's really powerful how we can go into, even when we're triggered, so this is the thing, previously the gratitude always comes after, the learning comes after. You're not going to get clarity and learning and wisdom when you're full of emotion. You need to left that shift. You need to be with it. But can you be your own observer at the same time? And instantly, while you're having that experience of, "I feel really shit. I feel really challenged." Can you be your own observer and go, "Hey I'm still grateful, because I'm being shown something that I'm not quite getting yet. Katrina: Right. I don't know what it is yet, but I know that it's here for a reason. Linda: It's here for a reason, it's here for my greater good, and I get to learn something. I get to be a better version of myself as I come through this. Katrina: Yeah. It's just when I'm triggered, I'm secretly happy because I know I'm healing. Linda: Yeah. I love that. I love that expression. Katrina: Well even on the plane just then, my four year old had three next level tantrums on the flight that were just so bad, so full on. I'm first I was conscious as fuck. I'm using conscious communication with my child, everybody probably so impressed by me. I was staying super calm, I was very proud of myself, right? And I got him through the first tantrum. Katrina: But then he had another one. And I felt myself start to break a little bit. I was like, "Fucking." I didn't say that, but that's what I was feeling, right. I was going to be like skanky bogan mom on the plane. But I didn't. But I was feeling it. But it was so full on. He's just like that when he's not ... he's a free spirit. Linda: Auntie Linda never gets those attacks, let's just leave it like that. Katrina: You can freaking fly with him. But honestly, at the same time, there was this small part of me that was like, "I'm becoming a warrior right now as a mother." I'm learning and growing. Okay he did break me a little bit, there was one point when the stewardess come up and I may have just been sitting on the tray table ignoring him while he jumped up and down in the seat and threw a marinate sauce on the guy in front of me. Linda: What? You didn't tell me that part. Katrina: I didn't have time to tell you anything, I got home and we went straight into the live stream. It was a small moment there where I was like, "I'm just going to pretend this is not happening and I'm not even going to try to do anything about it." Linda: As he was throwing sauce at people. Katrina: And the stewardess is like, "Could you stop standing up on the seat, please, the captain's going to come out and get you." And he was like, "No he's not." But he goes, "Never!" He refuses to sit. Linda: I love Nathan, he's just so unapologetic in his stuff. Katrina: Yeah and then she's like, "Wow, he's quite stern mood isn't he?" I'm like ... Linda: He's just unapologetic. He doesn't take no for an answer. Katrina: I really did break a little bit. I was like, "This is too hard. I just want to drink my wine and write in my fucking journal." Linda: I honour all the moms out there, honestly. I really honour all the moms because I don't have kids myself, yet, it might be an experience that I get to have in this lifetime, it may not, you know, either way I'm okay. But it's beautiful to watch from a distance. Katrina: Honestly, even through that, I'm just like, you go into this place when that shit happens on a plane where you're like, "I'm just going to choose to not allow anyone else' perceptions to impact me right now. I'm going to be in my space, with my child doing the best I can fucking do and now worrying about what everybody else is thinking about it." But there was definitely that part of me that was like, "I'm growing from this experience." And it's like what AJ just said about when you get triggered, and yeah, anything shit's going on for us and we always share what we're working through and what we're processing and stuff that's coming up. Linda: But we still have our tantrums, as well. Katrina: Ah, yeah. Linda: Some of our audience, like yesterday - Katrina: Sometimes we're extraordinarily immature. Linda: Oh my God. I just make - Katrina: Yesterday was an interesting day. Linda: Oh my God. But we also have these tantrums. Conscious tantrums. It's hilarious. Katrina: #concioustantrums. We do. It's release. Linda: Yeah, it is. Katrina: The thing is, even when we're having a tantrum through, we're aware and we know what we're doing. Linda: Yeah. Katrina: And we talk about it, usually at the same time. Not even afterward. But you won't be like, "losing your shit," or "I'm losing my shit," or whatever, and in the same audio, we're like, "Oh, well then I also understand that blah blah blah." And it's like, people don't talk like that normally with their friends. We give ourselves credit and give yourself credit if you are catching yourself, even a little bit. Because it's not about being so fucking involved that you're not in a human experience at all. But I think that one of the most powerful things is to be able to catch yourself and to notice it. Linda: Absolutely, absolutely. And like I said, be that own observer on the side. And go, "Okay, I'm allowing myself to just be [inaudible 00:40:56], I'm allowing myself to be with this." Katrina: Right. Linda: I'm allowing myself to be a little brat. And like I was saying yesterday, I just want to fucking kick and scream. But I'm not going to. [crosstalk 00:41:07]. And then just verbalise it, which is an expression of releasing. What was I saying? I either feel like having two litres in wine and I hardly ever drink or I want to have two litres of ice cream, which is not an option, or give me a bucket of peanut butter, or - Katrina: What is that, that's on the table over there? Linda: Where? Katrina: That packet of interesting items that I threw on the table down there. Linda: It's for you, my dear. Katrina: Did you buy me peanut butter? We needed some peanut butter in this house. [inaudible 00:41:43] Linda: We have peanut butter cuddles. Katrina: Well, you know what, what do you think ... peanut butter orgasms are also a thing that people need to be aware of. But that may be a topic for another live stream. But what do you think about, we were talking before about having fun and how important fun is, so fun is something that's often thought of as a childhood type thing, right? Children naturally know how to really be in a set of higher fun. Well children are also fabulous at having next level temper tantrums. So do you think it's just totally okay to be ... if you're going to be in that child energy of play and fun and lightheartedness and frivolity, why don't you get ... This is still live, Patrick - Linda: Yeah, it's life. Katrina: No need to replay. Why don't you get to also ... Well you don't necessarily get to lay down on the floor in the airport like my son does and kick and scream. Linda: But could you imagine though? Next time we go travelling, we should ... you have the phone, I'll do the thing. Honestly, we can do some skits. Katrina: That would be hilarious. [crosstalk 00:42:51]. I want the fucking peanut butter! They took my peanut butter off me at security! Totally. But it's actually not that funny because we're talking about, as adults, we learn to restrict our expression of our emotion. Linda: Right. Yeah. And we get so suppressed, but it's a form of release and no wonder we're so programmed to repress and not express ourselves, no wonder all of the sudden all these things are bubbling up inside, and then we just snap at the smallest little thing because we haven't been taught how to express ourselves. We haven't been taught how to create healthy containers to release our emotions and the energy from our bodies. And here's the thing, our physical bodies are going to store emotion and if we're not creating healthy containers to let go of that and to constantly release, like crying is a form of release, and we've even made crying bad. That crying is weak. Katrina: Right, right. It's a method as well. Linda: It's a mode of healing. Katrina: Absolutely. But it's also, if you continue to hold back what you're acting thinking and feeling from yourself, nevermind the other people in your life, then actually over time, you accidentally created yourself into a version of yourself which is not the real you. Linda: Yeah. Katrina: Because every single time you make a choice to respond from, "This is how I should show up or behave in this situation, as opposed to this is my true self, my true soul," you just made a small adjustment off track. And if you're doing that day by day, multiples times throughout the day, you kind of cultivating yourself into being this service based, masked version of yourself. And so then you wonder, why your relationships aren't working, why you can't seem to attract in those ideal soulmate clients, if you're an entrepreneur. I had a client a year or so ago say something about there's always these conflicts like friendships, and at the time I was like, "Wow, I don't have any conflict in my friendships." Now, I'm saying I don't experience conflict ever in my friendships, but it certainly not something where ... I don't expect it or I don't really think of it as normal, right? I wouldn't expect that we are friends would have some kind of conflict. Of course it's possible, nothing's impossible, but to me that's a soul aligned relationship, whether it's client or a friend or something different in the personal life. Katrina: I don't look at that as there should be currents of turmoil. Now if there would, that would be okay as well. Because it is what it is. But it's more that when the soul connection is there, there's an actual real true understanding of who we each are as individuals. It's not based on some service masked foundation, is what I'm saying. Linda: Right, yeah. Katrina: So therefor, there's actual legitimate acceptance of each other on a soul level, not just, "Oh yeah, you say the things or do the thing or have the things in your life that similar to me and so we'll be friends." Linda: Yeah, absolutely. And I think you and I are similar in many ways, but we're also so different in so many ways, and I think I remember ages and ages ago when I was just playing at a different level of consciousness, to just observe my human connections and relationships that I had back then and it was kind of like this ego game of, "Oh why wouldn't you like that? We can't be friends now." It wasn't honouring people ad accepting people for who they were. And now that I find with all of my friends, who I connect with on a soul level, we may not agree with everything, we may not do everything the same way, but we're fully honouring each other for who we are. Katrina: Completely Linda: And accepting each other for who we are. Katrina: Yeah. Linda: And life really isn't about, like you said earlier, touched on how we tend to lose ourselves because we're told who to be and we're told how to live our life, we are operating from this mask. And we're not even ourselves. And quite often we hear this expression of I just want to go and find myself. It isn't about finding yourself. Life is about remembering who you aare. Because everything is inside of you. We've all been born a free spirit of love, we all have an inner child within ourselves, so it's the programming of society that puts you in a box and tells you how to live your life, what to believe, how to ... We're even been thought what to think. We're being thought what to feel, in this type of situation, you should feel this. Katrina: Right. [crosstalk 00:47:34] Linda: And every single part of our life is manufactured in this system. So quite often we hear about, "Oh I'm going to go around the world to find myself." We don't need to go around the world to find ourselves. We can literally sit in stillness and just think right here and start to peel back the layers of who we're not. Who we've been told to be. And that's really powerful. It's not about, "Hey I want to figure out everything at once," that's not how it works. You figure something out about yourself, start to remember who you are on certain levels. It's like the onion. You peel back one layer and then there's something else under that. Linda: We run away from ourselves, yeah. I definitely run away from myself. A lot, in fact, back in the day. Because I couldn't face and stand the person who I was. So I did everything and anything to continue to numb and escape from my reality. Katrina: Right, yeah. There's a lot of things that are on the surface that could look like fabulous life choices, travels one of them. Which people might use in some cases, for numbing or escaping, but it's all about the place it's coming from. Because it can be coming, obviously from a place of hiding value and grounding and expanding, or it could be coming from a place of hiding. Like alcohol is one example of that. Sometimes people drink alcohol to obviously escape and run and hide, and then other times alcohol is expanding a higher vibe of abundance energy, basically. So it's all about where you already are, but either way, you've got to be giving yourself everything you need. If you think going on a silent meditation or going to a retreat or doing a course or getting a coach or getting a partner or whatever it is that's going "to change everything for me, that's going to fix me, that's going to give me what I need. I need this, I have to do it." It's like, "Well cool, do it if you feel called to do it, whatever it is." But you're actually still going to need to figure out how to give that to yourself at some point. Linda: Really good point. Katrina: You're not going to get it from going to that thing, paying that person, doing that thing. Linda: Yeah, absolutely. People can guide us, absolutely, but at the end of the day, a good coach is someone who guides and teaches for you to how to heal yourself, how to be more of you, how to connect to your truth and your believes around things, and how to be your own observer. So you're not relying on an external coach all the time. Or you're not relying on another external resource. Katrina: Yeah, I read about this. I did a little [inaudible 00:50:14] as my plane was taking off about maximum abuse learnings around relationships, business and personal, and like I mentioned specifically, a mentor shouldn't be telling you what to do. I believe a mentor is to help you remember how to be your be your own [inaudible 00:50:32], but a mentor is there to be more of who you are and connect to your soul, connect to your intuition and your own guidance and wisdom. Not to tell you, "Here's the rules and you must do this in order to get this result." Linda: Yeah, absolutely. And it's powerful when you can start to tune into yourself and listen to your own soul and allow your inner compass to guide you, and I'm very big on that. Katrina: Yes. Your soul always knows. Linda: Your could always knows. I actually have to admit to one thing. This year, I ended up getting caught up with events, like person - Personal growth is one of my highest values, and I love ... I can throw my money on personal growth. Coaching, mentoring, events, all this stuff. And I found myself doing one event after another, one course after another - Katrina: Yeah you were in a - Linda: ... I'm like, "Holy shit, this is actually too much." What am I actually searching from these events? Is that thing of, "Ah, I want to expand more, I want to evolve my consciousness more. And I don't feel good enough." So that was really interesting to obverse myself in that. But I caught myself. I was completely honest with myself. I'm being honest with you here as well. It doesn't matter how much you continue to evolve, you'll never get to a stage where, "Okay, I've had enough now." Katrina: Yep. Linda: But also, be careful that you're not going the other way of "I want more and more and more." Because you can't be okay with what you have inside of you. Katrina: Right. Like learn ... yeah. Learning, growth work, is a great example of what we were just saying. A lot of people use growth work to escape from being in the now and from living their lives. In fact, you know Bali, like we're both obsessed with Bali and we both go to Bali a lot. You're leaving back again Tuesday for Bali, right? And I just came back from Bali on Wednesday and I go there every month. Linda: And you're coming back for my birthday. Katrina: I'm going back to Bali for your birthday, of course, in a few weeks. So Bali though, is a place ... There's an expression about Bali I remember hearing, it's like, it can be a place for the internal wanderer. Now, nothing wrong with being an internal wanderer, but specially there's a lot of people who go to Bali and 20 years later are still in Bali and have not, as I would call it, pressed fucking play on anything, they're just floating around freaking Bali being healed and cleansed. Bali cleanse. Linda: That is starting. Katrina: We have our own detention of what a Bali cleanse may entail. But there is. There's a lot of people in Bali who are amazing artists and messengers, but who have not put a single bit of work out in the world or barely anything. They're just caught up in their energy and the obsession and the vortex of Bali, and I'm healing and I'm learning and I'm exploring and I'm wondering. And it's like, cool, when are you going to fucking do something? Linda: Yeah. Katrina: So there's going to be that part of it, as well. Linda: Absolutely. Katrina: And Bali's a good example of that. But life is a good example of that, as well. And in this industry, for sure, you see so many people who are continually learning, continually healing, continually absorbing new content and regurgitating stuff on the internet, I guess, but when are you going to actually admit that you're scared to let what's inside of you out? And then just do it. Because that's what's going on. You're becoming addicted to the growth work as a way of escaping doing your own fucking work. Linda: Yes, and we're hiding under the spiritual masks, then we become, like we start to awaken our self worth and our beliefs are still at a level where we think that, for example, money is bad, or we can't do certain things because it's bad. And we actually have a lot of limiting believes in operating from that space, and then we just hide under this spiritual façade of spiritual masks where, oh no, no, but I'm spiritual and I'm a good person - Katrina: Bold as fuck. Linda: And we hide and we use that as an excuse to cover up and limiting where you're thinking or our low self worth and how we're operating. So we're using it as an excuse and I'm masking. Katrina: It's hiding. Linda: It is hiding. And at the end of the way, we can get so caught up in the whole, "Let's just do yoga and meditate every day and do nothing else." Katrina: Right. Linda: But at the end of the day, yes those are daily practises and very important, I believe in them very much. I'm a yoga teacher - Katrina: Yeah, journaling. Obviously I'm obsessed with journaling, I talk about it all the time, but one time I wrote a post, something like, "Put the fucking journal down. Stop fucking journaling. Go and do some work." Like, okay journaling is that work, I get that, obviously I teach that. But yeah, there's go to be those ... it's that dance, back and forth between, okay I'm going within and I'm accessing guidance and I'm learning and growing, or connecting with others who are helping me to grow. And then it's like, okay now I'm in creation mode, because as humans, we're all brought here to create. We're not brought here to consume. Consumption of content or growth or whatever - Linda: That's what we're taught. Katrina: But creation, I believe, is of higher value for the majority of us, or certainly, at least, for people in this community. We're creators. Linda: Yeah, yeah. Katrina: So are you creating or are you caught up in that continual, perpetual, wondering and seeking and never being ready to press play, and there's always something else to learn and nother fucking healing session to do, and another journaling session to do, and at some point it's like, put the journal down. Linda: Yeah, and you know, it can be uncomfortable to observe these things about ourselves and we don't always want to admit to that. But it's really powerful to just own that space and not just own your story, but own everything where you're at. First of the changes is awareness and then acceptance. Accept where you are, and go, "Okay, awesome, I acknowledge where I am now, and if I'm not aware, then how can I create change?" And like I just own up about the whole event thing. I'm like, "Oh my God, I just being going from event to event." Katrina: Well you said yes to all those events in alignment, though. Like you're the opposite of a person who doesn't do the work. But then, at a certain point, you noticed that it was too ... it was feeling like, this is not what I need. Linda: Yeah, yeah. Katrina: To be continual. But you weren't saying yes to those events in a place of trying to escape or avoid anything. It was the opposite of that. Linda: Yeah. Katrina: It was aligned to say yes, and then at a certain point it was like, "Oh, okay cool. I can learn what I need to learn here," which partly is that I don't need to go to events back to back to back to back. Linda: Oh my God. Katrina: In different cities continually. Linda: I'm having a month off, okay. A month off. Katrina: Yeah, but now, you're falling out of that and you're into more growth and time and taking actual time, it's a perfect balance, right? Linda: The integration - Katrina: You're allowing it all to just sink deeper into who you are. Linda: Yeah. The integration is a really interesting topic and I think it's a really important one to discuss because we can, for example, if you're using the event example again, we can continue to do courses, events, blah blah blah, and we take all the information in, or we do healing. But are we allowing ourselves to integrate? Are we actually applying also our learnings? We can get caught up in the personal development world, as well. We just continue to do all the courses, learn all the stuff, but are we applying it? Are we actually embodying - Katrina: Are you testing it out? Linda: ... the teachings? Are we embodying the wisdom of what we're actually being taught? Because knowledge is not power. It's what you do with the knowledge. Katrina: Yep, that applied knowledge is power. Linda: Yeah. Applied knowledge is power. Yeah, I definitely believe that, too. Katrina: Yeah. Linda: So it's powerful to observe where you are and just be up front and honest with yourself. Okay, cool, well I get to see from a different perspective. I'm going, "Okay, well I own that part of myself. And now I can create change." But if you're not accepting those parts of yourself, then you can't change it. It's like this with anything in life. If you're not accepting where you are and you're not accepting a previous experience, you can't shift from it. You have to accept it. Katrina: You have to continue to receive that same lesson until you learn it. Linda: Acceptance is part of the healing process in anything in life. Super powerful. I accept that you're here. Katrina: I'm just thinking about the Bali cleanse. Linda: On the audio you're like - Katrina: We're going to have a fabulous Bali cleanse when I come over again in a few weeks. Linda: And it is my birthday in a couple of weeks. So [crosstalk 00:59:16]. How am I going to make it? Oh yeah. 34. Age is only number [crosstalk 00:59:25]. Katrina: That's why I'm like, I think I know, but I'm not [crosstalk 00:59:27]. Linda: Yeah, it's like ... sometimes I'm friends with people, like close friends, and I'm like, "How old are you?" After couple years, I'm like, "How old are you, even?" Age is just not a thing that we know. Katrina: Not at all. Well I like that expression, I don't see faces, I see souls. It's the same with age, I think. It's a soul thing, not an age thing. Linda: Guilty on consume too much learning. Yeah, if we're not taking aligned action or applying the stuff, nothing's going to happen. We've got to step into the actual taking responsibility for our actions. Katrina: And pressing fucking play. Linda: And pressing fucking play. Katrina: Or pressing go live. This is an example, right? We're really just having a conversation here that we would have by ourselves anyhow, and we do all day, every day, and how hard is it to just go live and do it as content for your audience. It's not hard. But people make it really hard. And if you wanted to build brand for example, and then maybe you're like, "I've got all these powerful, cool stuff inside of me," and you talk about it with your friends or maybe some groups or your mentor or something like that, well, that's being stuck in the cycle of I'm learning and I'm growing and I talk about amazing, interesting things with people, but are you showing the world? Are you sharing what you're here to show the world? Linda: Yeah. Katrina: Marie says, "I'm 49 and [inaudible 01:00:51] I feel 35." Yeah, well, that's what's funny right. I would never think of you by being 49 based on what the conventional definition of 49 is. But I think, even my ... what's his name? The yoga teacher? In Bali? Linda: Yeah. Katrina: So he asked me once how old I was, because I mentioned having an eight year old, and he was like, "How old are you?" And I told him, and he was like, "Holy shit, I thought you were like 30, basically." And I've gone, "How old are you?" And he's 49, right? Linda: Ah is he 49? Wow. Katrina: I was like, wow. So then we both congratulated each other on how young we look, of course. And he was kind of talking about how people don't take care of themselves and stuff. But I said to him, "But how you look at 49 and how I look at 38 is what it's meant to be like. What if that is what 49 is suppose to look like? It's just that most people are all fucked up, basically." So it's not even that you look younger or I look younger, it's that we're the ones who have actually honoured our bodies and taken care of ourselves and this is what ... 38 is not suppose to look like what most, sorry. What most women look like at 38. It shouldn't look like. Or what most men look like at 50. It shouldn't look like that. It should be, if you took care of yourself. I don't know. That's my theory. Linda: Longevity. Katrina: My theories that when we meet people when we're shocked at their age, and that they look like, Marie's a great example of this. Marie's in my inner circle. And I've met her in person, obviously, as well. Not obvious, but I have. People like that, where you think, "How can you be that age? Doesn't make nay sense." My theory is that they look the correct way that you're suppose to look for that age, it's just that everybody else is ageing super fast because they didn't take care of themselves. Linda: Yeah, and I guess, yes the numbers are ticking in our linear timeline and we get "a year older ... pardon? Katrina: That we've been in time and space. Linda: Oh, we do. There's so many different timelines. The talk about time is just a whole other live feed again. But at the end of the day, we celebrate these birthdays, when really we're just one day older, every day. Katrina: Yeah. Linda: It's actually really interesting because we're not going to feel ... We're still this infinite soul, we're still this person that's inside of this physical body that we carry for life. We're not going to feel any different in 20 years time. We're still going to be this soul - Katrina: Everybody says that. Linda: We're still going to feel the physical restrictions because the body starts to shut down, so the only difference you're going to feel is your physical limitations that you'll eventually have because your body is getting older. Katrina: Yep. Linda: So that's why its so incredibly important to look after your physical being, health and wellness is not just - Katrina: It's not negotiable. Linda: Yeah. Yeah. And it flows into mind, body, and soul. Looking after every parts of self, and we can't continue to neglect that. Even as an 80 year old, we have child. Katrina: You look fabulous for 80. You're like, "Even as an 80 year old." You're looking fucking amazing. Linda: I met this man. I live steamed about it last night. I met this beautiful man - Katrina: The guy that you shared your food with? Linda: Yes! Yes. I want to share it again, can I? Can I? In a really, really short version. I was feeling very triggered yesterday. And I was sitting outside eating my little rice crackers and my avocado, and this elderly man, he was about 70. Katrina

A rich maniac who thinks he's so clever and smarter than everyone else decides to fight wars for the American people without anyone asking him to. Hey I'm talking about Iron Man! Rachel and I embark on our huge undertaking of covering every Marvel Cinematic Universe movie, starting with Iron Man (2008), starring Robert Downey Jr. Let's watch these movies and try to figure out Trumpism, consumerism, and also how comic book nerddom got so popular. Email us at mpls.podcast@gmail.com if you've got any observations from the Marvel movies. We'll read your comments on the podcast. Thanks!

Hey I'm making art but I'm also a dad ok. This is my view on parenting. For what it's worth, this same stuff applies to cooperating with adults. Say that sounds like a good topic for a podcast. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Steve Larsen: Hey, what's going on everyone? This is Steve Larsen, and you're listening to an epic episode of Secret MLM Hacks Radio. So here's the real mystery. How do real MLMers like us, who didn't cheat and only bug family members and friends, who want to grow a profitable home business, how do we recruit A players into our downlines and create extra incomes, yet still have plenty of time for the rest of our lives? That's the blaring question, and this podcast will give you the answer. My name is Steve Larsen and welcome to Secret MLM Hacks Radio. What's up guys? Hey I'm very excited for this episode today. I have a super cool little thing here for you. I've often told you guys before, in fact, I've told many of you this before. I've created a lot of info products now, in my life. I've seen a lot of offers. One of the things that I teach is offer creation, right? You know, with ClickFunnels, and I am one of the coaches for their new two comma club coaching program. It's a program that I helped launch about a year ago, a little over a year ago, and I was the only coach. I had 675 students, and I was the only coach. My job was to go through all of their offers with them. Help them create a very sexy and attractive offer based on the person they're trying to sell and get them out there making money for a lot of them, for the first time in their life. We had tons of awesome success stories from that. We had people make anywhere from their first thousand bucks to six million. Lots of stuff. I had a chance to ... Anyway, the only reason I'm bringing this up is, it makes me sound like I'm ... that makes me feel like I'm really egotistical. What I'm trying to say is, after going through so many of these people, and after I've had a whole bunch of people come into the Secret MLM Hacks program, after I've had another group of like six or 700 people come in to do it again, I'm coming up on a lot of people that I've done this with. I had the opportunity to do that again this morning for several hours with some students, kind of one on one with them, and go through and help figure out part of what it is they're actually selling. There's some things that I always run into people. This roadblocks that I always see people will run into. And doing that many times, it's hard not to notice the patterns, right? So I thought what I'd do for this episode is kind of show or share with you one of the patterns. It's so extremely simple, okay? It is so extremely simple, but it ends up being like their entire business plan. I don't know if you guys have ever created a business plan before in the sense that school usually has you go through it, like business school, right? We'd write these massive like 15-20 page business plans, and I don't know. There was still like no plan on how to actually ... Anyway, what I want to share with you today is, in my mind, one of the easiest ways to sidestep, having to go through this massive business plan writing. I think business plans, in the sense that they're taught, are usually pure garbage, right? Unless you need massive cash for like some VC funding, which I'm also very against, because in my mind, if you got something of worth, if you got something that's actually solving problems for people, like, you don't always need VC funding. I know that will cause some polarities, I say that, but that's okay. I actually am very against VC funding. Very few scenarios I can ever think of ever where someone should actually get it. Anyway, so, what I want to do is I want to walk through, just real quick, just a very simple process to figure out what your business actually is and what it's doing. So you're thinking about your MLM, right? You're thinking about your downline thing. There's several aspects to it, right? Number one, you are selling people into your opportunity itself. That's great. Absolutely love it. I've got some cool systems to do that for me. We just passed our 200th person applying to join my downline, someone I've never met before, right? That's amazing, okay? That's what I teach inside Secret MLM Hacks, if you guys have never heard of that yet or hadn't a chance to see it, go check it out. It's had a chance to bless a lot of lives. Actually, it's been really fun. Had a lot of cool success stories in there. It's been a lot of fun. The other avenue though, other business avenue that you've got is this area, where you're selling your MLM's actual product, right? I have a system for eventually getting people to both, but at the beginning, I only focus on one or the other. I'm only selling the product, or I'm only selling the opportunity. At the end, they promote each other, but not at the beginning. I lead with one or the other. Okay. Anyway, here's the framework. Here's the framework. This is how I do what I do, and this is the framework that I use for people to go through and get more clear on who it is that they're selling. You see, one of the things that I ran into early on inside this business is, a lot of guys know, I literally ... I wanted to be successful in MLM so bad that I walked down Main Street. I was so ... Guys, my pride was on the line. You might actually be the same, where you have a whole bunch of people who's been telling you, "Oh is this just another one of those things again?" and that hurt my pride. That made me feel like I was an idiot. That made me feel like I had nothing. You most likely have had something like that happened to you. I mean, I don't know anyone who's in business, who's actually successful, who's actually never had a naysayer. You know what I mean? We all have them. We all have them. I was feeling it hard. This was four, five years ago, something like that. I wanted this to be successful so bad that I literally was walking down Main Street pitching people. I would down and be like, "Hey," and my pitch was bad, and I didn't know what I was doing. I was fumbling through it, and I went through, and I was getting people like, "Come on. You should buy this. This is so cool." I didn't know what I was doing. I got some people who said, "Yes," and I had a ton of people who said, "No." I ended up recruiting a lot of people. What are the issues that I ran into, which you most likely have run into as well, is, I was like, "Oh my gosh. This is so cool. I worked my butt off. I was literally walking down Main Street. I recruited some businesses. I did recruit some friends and family. I did recruit some total strangers." It wasn't that many. This is the first time I'd ever done anything in MLM ever at that time. I really, really did not want to fail at this. I felt like I had failed at so many things before, which now, in hindsight, makes me realize that's what actually led to all the success, which has been so cool, but it's hard to see that when you're in the middle of it, right? And you most likely have been there as well. You might be right now. In fact, I was looking at some old pictures. I was looking at some old pictures of when my wife and I got married. We had hardly any money. It was three weeks into our marriage, and it was Christmastime. We had no money. We were so poor. Guys, I literally took a piece of like butcher paper and I thumbtacked it to our wall. It was totally empty in there because we had no money for furniture, and I literally took a Crayola crayon, and I drew a fireplace next to our tree that was like a foot tall. We put it on this little stand, so I was a little bit taller. Then we put like a present or two underneath from each other. These are like ... You know what I mean? This is the cherishing moments you remember at the beginning of marriage. We just had nothing. Anyway, we really had nothing, and I really, really wanted to make this work. I felt like I've been trying tons of stuff and nothing had been happening, nothing had been working. And externally, yes, that's the thing that I really, really wanted. Internally though, it was a pride issue like, "I can do this." You know, I really wanted to prove it. "I can do this. I can totally ... This is something that I can go do. Look at me like a provider. Look at me ... " You know what I mean? I'm sure that we've all had that kind of feeling before. It's something that really affected me, so I feel like I wasn't. Women get their identity primarily by the way they make a home, right? A lot of studies have shown that. Men get their identity in a sense of self-worth by with their occupation, right? And so, for a man to go through and say, "I can't provide," really detrimentally hurts their insides. And so, I was feeling that. So anyways, I'm walking around, and I was so stoked because that first month after walking down Main Street and doing all this stuff, unless you guys have been on the free Secret MLM Hacks training, secretmlmhacks.com, if you guys want to check it out. But if you guys have been on it, you've heard the story. And I was so excited. I got those first 13 people in, in that first month. I think it was like five weeks, but you know, whatever. So I had 13 people, right? I was so pumped. What's funny is nobody did anything, but that's not what my thought was. I was like, "Oh my gosh. It's going to be crazy. This is going to be so cool." If that person gets 13, that person gets 13, that person ... oh my gosh. The biggest problem we're going to have is, like, "What do we do with all this money? I'm going to go blow my nose in 20s now. Oh my gosh. What private island should I buy?" Right? And that was my mentality at the time. That's what I was thinking anyway. I was like shocked. I was appalled that no one did anything. I was like, "Do you not see? Can you not see? Can you not see the opportunity that we have in front of us?" It's like, "What's going on?" Okay. Fast-forward five years, fast-forward to now, where there are people applying I've never met before. In fact, a ton of them, by the hundreds now. I've got cool systems that are out there. It's the exact same thing I teach inside Secret MLM Hacks, exact same thing I teach for my personal downline. It's what I do, and it works incredibly well. What changed? This is what changed, and this is what I walk people through when I'm coaching them, okay? When I say this, do not dismiss it, because even if you've heard what I'm about to say, I guarantee you may not have heard it in a way that I have than I'm about to teach this, okay? Number one, you have got to figure out who your dream customer is, not who you could be selling to. That's one of the biggest problems we all run into as entrepreneurs. We see the solutions we offer. We see the value that we deliver out there, and we start saying phrases like, "Well that person could buy it, and this person could buy it." Let's say you're selling water machines. I had somebody who literally walk up to me once, and they were selling water machines. I was like, "Who do you sell to?" They were like, "Well everybody needs water, so I'm selling everybody." I was like, "That's the definition of nobody." I'm not talking about who could you sell to. I'm saying, "Who is your dream customer, the lay-down sale, the person that's so easy to sell to you barely have to open your mouth?" They're like, "Oh my gosh. Yes, I want that," and they pay premium price to do so. Right? That's who you want to sell to. That's who you want on your team. Okay. Identify the dream person, and you put them down, your dream client. You write them down, and you bring that person to life, and you sit down, and you start thinking, "You know what? I want a person who's already been done something in business before. I want to do something. I want the person in who's not afraid to talk to people, so I have to deal with that issue anymore. You know what? I want ... " Or rather, if you're recruiting, or let's say you're selling product. Let's say ... I don't know. Let's see you're selling ... Keto products are big right now, right? Let's say, "I want to go sell somebody who's already purchased supplements in the past, so I don't have to teach them the first time to take on something like a supplement. I want to get an individual who is ... " Does that make sense? Get that dream client down. Know who they are. That is step number one. Who is the dream customer, not who could you sell to. That's a different category, and usually, it causes a lot of angst, a lot of headaches, and they're freeloaders, and usually, they're terrible to work with. It's just the truth. Okay. I hope we all got all thick skin here, because ... Right? Just the truth. Somebody doesn't want your thing, you should not sell them. Do not sell people who have a need. You sell people who want it. People who have a want, so much better. Oh my gosh, that's a better client, customer. Okay, so, that's the first thing. Number one, who the heck are you selling to? The dream person. Number two, where do they hang out? Where can you reach them? Is there a group of them that all hang out together? Maybe they all hang out in the same Facebook group. Maybe they'll hang out in the same forum. Maybe they all listen to the same podcasts. Where are they? Right? Where are they? Where are they actively? I am not a huge person on Instagram, but I'm actually really getting into it now. Whenever I learn something, I drop little nuggets on there. If you guys want to follow me, totally would love that, and it's been a ton of fun. It's been a ton of fun to go through and build that up. But before, for quite some time, I was not actually on Instagram ever. People go to the same places to consume their information. So where is your dream customer hanging out? Maybe it's an existing business owner. Well where do all the successful existing business owners get their information from? Maybe they all subscribe to the same magazines. Maybe they all listen the same kinds of content. Maybe they all go to the same YouTube channels. Does that make sense? Where are they? Answer that question. Who is the dream customer? Not, who could you sell to? Who's the dream client? The one, just the one. It's funny. When you actually end up searching after the one, you actually get a few of the fringes. If you don't have it though, you don't get any you don't get fringes or the dream customer. Actually, you get headaches and projects. I got enough products in my life. I don't need a person as a project. Someone who's not figured out other things inside their life yet. Does that make sense? Does that make sense? So number one, who's your dream customer? Number two, where are they? Where do they consume their information? And number three, what could you say to them, or what could you give to them? Maybe it's a sample for the product. Maybe you have your own little ebook that you wrote that would serve them in their business. What's the bait? That's the question you're trying to ask. What bait do you have that will get them to come over to you? Notice what I said. What will get them to come over to you? Not, you go to them. What's so powerful about this is that when you reach out and you start dropping pieces, little pieces of bait that turns somebody towards you, what you're doing is, it means you don't have to go through heavy and hardcore sales tactics or techniques anymore, because they know. They're like, "Oh my gosh. Steve Larsen's dropping so much crap of amazing stuff on his podcast. That's amazing." That's exactly what I'm doing, everybody, right? I'm just peeling back curtains so you know. This podcast is a piece of bait, and it has brought incredible people to me, incredible people from my downline, amazing people inside my products, right? Both my personal ones and my MLM ones. Does that make sense? I hope this is making sense. What bait, what can I actually solve for them? What can I say to them? Whether it's a product or something that you're saying, or maybe your sample really is so good that when you hand it to somebody, it sells them. That rarely happens I found out though. Products don't make sales. A sales message makes sales. Anyway, different topic totally. Okay. So that's number three. Who is the dream customer? Number two, where are they? Number three, what bait can I use to get them to come to me? Right? So I can persuade them to come to me rather than me go convince them. That's the benefit of using that. What bait ... That might mean that you create something. I will tell you it's one of the highest leverage things you need to go create though, okay? Don't get scared by the fact that you might have to make something, because I answer that question. Then, number four, where are you trying to take them? Just one place, not two. This is usually why I only sell, first of all, a product and then eventually talk about the opportunity, or I'll sell the opportunity only and then eventually talk about the product. I never do both at the same time. Maybe that's just personal taste, but usually, the human brain can only handle one thing at once. And so, anyway, does that make sense though? Just that four-step process that will clean up a ton of stuff that you're doing in your business. It will help you identify who the best person is for your business. That's why I have so many amazing people. Because I've done this process so many times, I know exactly who I want in my downline. I know exactly where they are. I know exactly what bait gets them to come to me. I know where I'm taking them, right? I know where I'm taking them. I'm taking them to this beautiful place of automation and sweet funnel automation and marketing, using the internet. Then I hand off the same systems to them. That's crazy. It's like the first actual duplicatable thing I've ever found in my life. Does that make sense? Anyway, hopefully, that helps. That's my four steps to identifying. Frankly, it's the four steps to getting my dream customer, to getting a downline that I actually like. Does that make sense? Because I know that we've all created downlines. Most of us have probably got someone on downlines, and we're like, "I don't know if I like my customer," right? Just to be real with you, right? "I don't know if I like my customer today. I don't know if I like the people in my downline right now. I don't know if I like that I have to babysit everybody and put a cattle prod to their back to get him to do anything." So I said, "I'm not going to do that anymore," so I don't. I did that by upgrading and getting more specific on the dream person. Now, I get a few of others and that's fine, but now, there's another support system. The people that are inside my downline are rockstars. I'm not the only rockstar in there. Everyone's a rockstar. So when we get someone who might be struggling a little bit, there is a ton of support. Now, I'm not alone. This thing's actually duplicatable. Does that make sense? That's why I crafted this. That's why I did the whole ... That's why I left job to come do this, because I started seeing this putting all together, and I was doing it for these other people, and I was like, "Wait a second. I know I could do that." You can too. Anyway, hey guys, thanks so much. Hopefully, that was effective for you. And please write those down. Number one, who's my dream customer? Number two, write, where are they? Number three, what's the bait I can use to actually get them to come to me, so I don't go to them? And then, number four, write, where the heck am I going to take them? Do I want to lead them first to product? Am I going to lead them first to opportunity? Maybe it's my own third party info product that I create. And, you start putting those things together to figure out how to actually answer that question. That one little simple four question formula right there will drastically increase the quality of both your customer and your downline and will start solving problems for you. Problems that you didn't know were problems because of the quality of the individual and the state of the individual who's actually coming to you now. It has changed everything in my business, and I absolutely love it. I actually like MLM again. Does that make sense? For a long time ... I know I said too much, "Does that make sense? Does that make sense?" I should not say it so much. But for a long time, I didn't. I was like, "Blah. MLM. Serious? I really got to do this again?" Network marketing, direct selling, whatever you want to call it. I like MLM again, and it's because of the way that I treat this process. Guys, thanks so much. Appreciate it. If you hadn't a chance to check out secretmlmhacks.com, please go do so. Would love to have you on that free web class there. It'll teach you the three-step system I use to automate my recruiting. It's the three steps I used to auto I ought it's the three steps I used to auto recruit my downline, without my friends and family even knowing that I'm in MLM. Guys, thank you so much, and I'll talk to you later. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Please remember to rate and subscribe. Whether you just want more leads or automated MLM funnels, or if you just want to learn to get paid more for your product, head over to secretmlmhacks.com to join the next free training today.

Download MP3 ついこの間まで試験勉強に追われていたという学生さんも多いと思います。勉強に気が乗らず、先延ばしにしてしまう…そんな皆さんに、今回はJoeが「勉強に集中できる方法」を教えます！*** It's a Good Expression *** （今回の重要表現） Friends フレンズ（アメリカのドラマ） ..., only to + do ...した結果は結局〜だった (to) keep getting know her どんどん彼女のことを知り続ける jealous やきもちを焼く (to) mention ほのめかす (to) look over ざっと見る (to) let the information sink in 理解する totes （俗語）totally rad （俗語）very good ※totes, radともに、texting（SMS）で使われるネットスラング。 episode ドラマの（一話） due ... ...が締め切りの *** Script *** It's Sometimes Hard to Study W: Ugghh, I'm so exhausted… M: What have you been studying? W: The exam I have next week. We're going to be tested on these three chapters. Hey… I'm going for a study break. Do you want pizza? (3 hours later) M: Hey, it's been three hours! What are you doing now? W: I'm on the fourth season of Friends! Chandler met a pretty girl, only to find out she's dating Joey! But Chandler keeps getting to know her, and he falls in love. And Ross is trying to make Rachel jealous by mentioning the woman he's dating. But she argues back by talking about her new boyfriend. But Ross' girlfriend is using him as a babysitter, and Rachel's boyfriend steals from her. M: Ah! I don't care! You should be studying for your exam! W: That's not until later this week. And I've already studied today. M: What? You took 15 minutes to look over one page? W: I want to let the information sink in. M: You were texting while you were reading? W: We were having a DISCUSSION about the exam topic. M: Oh, I see. So your exam is about "that totes rad party on the weekend"? W: Hey, don't read my texts! M: You should be doing your work! W: I only have 7 more episodes of this season. Then I'll go back and study. M: Fine, do whatever you want. (A few days later) W: Aahhh! What have I done!? M: It's 12 o'clock at night. Why are you being so loud!? W: I forgot about the homework I have due tomorrow! (Written by Stella-Maree Trounson)

Download MP3 ついこの間まで試験勉強に追われていたという学生さんも多いと思います。勉強に気が乗らず、先延ばしにしてしまう…そんな皆さんに、今回はJoeが「勉強に集中できる方法」を教えます！*** It's a Good Expression *** （今回の重要表現） Friends フレンズ（アメリカのドラマ） ..., only to + do ...した結果は結局〜だった (to) keep getting know her どんどん彼女のことを知り続ける jealous やきもちを焼く (to) mention ほのめかす (to) look over ざっと見る (to) let the information sink in 理解する totes （俗語）totally rad （俗語）very good ※totes, radともに、texting（SMS）で使われるネットスラング。 episode ドラマの（一話） due ... ...が締め切りの *** Script *** It's Sometimes Hard to Study W: Ugghh, I'm so exhausted… M: What have you been studying? W: The exam I have next week. We're going to be tested on these three chapters. Hey… I'm going for a study break. Do you want pizza? (3 hours later) M: Hey, it's been three hours! What are you doing now? W: I'm on the fourth season of Friends! Chandler met a pretty girl, only to find out she's dating Joey! But Chandler keeps getting to know her, and he falls in love. And Ross is trying to make Rachel jealous by mentioning the woman he's dating. But she argues back by talking about her new boyfriend. But Ross' girlfriend is using him as a babysitter, and Rachel's boyfriend steals from her. M: Ah! I don't care! You should be studying for your exam! W: That's not until later this week. And I've already studied today. M: What? You took 15 minutes to look over one page? W: I want to let the information sink in. M: You were texting while you were reading? W: We were having a DISCUSSION about the exam topic. M: Oh, I see. So your exam is about "that totes rad party on the weekend"? W: Hey, don't read my texts! M: You should be doing your work! W: I only have 7 more episodes of this season. Then I'll go back and study. M: Fine, do whatever you want. (A few days later) W: Aahhh! What have I done!? M: It's 12 o'clock at night. Why are you being so loud!? W: I forgot about the homework I have due tomorrow! (Written by Stella-Maree Trounson)

Reverend Billy Graham passed away Wednesday morning at the age of 99 at his home in Montreat. The most prominent American Christian preacher of his era was ordained in Southern Baptist church, but it was his ability to blur the denominational lines of Protestant Christianity that built his large following says Reverend Dr. Marcia Mount Shoop, the pastor at Grace Covenant Presbyterian Church in Asheville. She joined BPR's Matt Bush in studio to discuss how Graham was able to do that - plus his complex history with gender, racial, and LGBTQ doctrines in the U.S., and where Protestant Christianity stands and where it may be going at the time of his death. Reverend Mount Shoop is also the co-host of BPR's Going Deep: Sports in the 21st Century podcast. Episodes can be found here or through iTunes or Google Play Music, and can be heard Saturday afternoons at 3:30 on BPR News. Excerpts of interview - On blurring the denominational lines of Protestant Christianity - "Billy Graham is an interesting figure because he was a trailblazer - probably unconsciously so - in creating a space in which those lines started to blur and not be so important. He had a broad appeal...(he) began to loosen the hold that the denominational lines had, especially in mainline Protestantism, on frankly everything from the government to the economy, to the conventional culture of this country." On how Graham was able to blur the denominational lines - "There became something very predictable and stale about being Methodist, or Presbyterian, and the Baptists do this...he kind of breathed life into if you're Christian, you do this." On current evangelical Christianity and how it formed during Graham's heyday - "In some ways, evangelical is now equated with conservative politics or the religious right. Technically that term evangelical means that you are called to spread the good news of Jesus Christ. So every Christian should be evangelical." On his crusades and filling sports stadiums with followers - "He created an experience for people. It was a visceral experience. It was a revival. There was energy, there was feeling, there was movement. Lives were changed. They left those experiences different." On whether denominational identity still matters to Christians now - "What I'm seeing is a soft resurgence in denominationalism now. I think it's because of our political climate. And people are looking for frameworks of meaning and how to be engaged in what's happening in the world...I think it's because of how much is up for grabs in our country politically and spiritually." On the Billy Graham rule, where he would not be in the same room alone with a woman who was not his wife - "If Billy Graham does anything for us today as Americans...let it be that he holds a mirror up to us. His rule (was born) in a time when it was not uncommon for men in power to abuse their power. And to use that to have sexual relationships with women they had more power than. We're seeing with the MeToo movement that has persisted. On the one hand the feminist in me says, 'Hey I'm you're equal. We should be able to sit down and have a meeting just the two of us. And engage in a conversation about theology and church politics.' But there is another part of me that has lived in the church long enough and knows how much of a patriarchal institution it is to know...there are very few examples I can give you in which there wasn't some complexity to the men I was engaging with and how they used their power."

Hey I'm not here to judge. Besides what's wrong with a good cleansing? Time for some more fun and games with Zakk Wylde. I caught up the legendary guitarist from Ozzy and the leader of Black Label Society before a show at the historic Rave in Milwaukee, WI. We talk Grimmest Hits, we talk the No More Tours 2 announcement from his boss, and yeah there's some talk about anal bleaching, don't judge. Zakk Wylde: @ZakkWyldeblsCutter: @cuttermedia

5 Things You Should Never Say, Always Say If You Want to Make More Money. Clint Arthur takes us through key components to make more money. Make more money have more fun. Conquer your fear of public speaking become a confident and charismatic person you've always wanted to be. I just want to introduce you to a. Highly motivated guy Clint Arthur. He's gonna be our guest today. And Clint is the bestselling author of Speaking game seven finger secrets revealed says that there are five things you should always say if you want to make more money and Five Things You Should Never Say If you want to make more money and I'm looking at the cover of his book which is pretty cool seven figure speaker secrets revealed. Make more money have more fun. Conquer your fear of public speaking become a confident and charismatic person you've always wanted to be.. Clint. I'm just so excited you could be here because I know this is going to be a lot of fun. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you I really appreciate your taking the time to record this and I'm excited to help everybody in your audience to have more fun make more money and gain more confidence and charisma.   Every time they open their mouth to say whatever to anybody to their kids to their spouse to their boss to a boardroom full of people to a hundred people at the PTA meeting or to a thousand people at some kind of conference if you ever open your mouth and speak this next 30 minutes is going to change the way you speak and the impact that you have on the world and influence you can make on the world and on your pocketbook and bank accounts forever.   That's awesome because we're really all in speaking game no matter what we do aren’t we. Every time you open your mouth you are trying to influence somebody if you want to go to a certain movie or to a particular restaurant or if you want your kids to clean their room or if you want to get your boss to give you a raise or to implement something or if you're trying to negotiate with a customer or with a contractor this is going to apply to you.   Every time you talk and the things that we're going to talk about here are going to be things that you can do every single time you speak to anybody so that you can have more influence and impact and income that's so cool.   Yeah because we all need to work better on being better is so that we can be better at everything. I know that’s not the right thing. Exactly. Sure, what the heck. No no, no, we need to be better. That's exactly right. And you know Donald Trump is whatever you may think about him politically. Let's cast that aside let's just think about how successful that guy was as a speaker. He gets paid a million dollars to go show up and talk for an hour. That's not a bad paycheck even for Donald Trump. That's not a bad paycheck. And that's all because he's a good speaker. And what are some of the funny things that he says you know I do this bigly you know so you're right. We all need to be better at this.   That's right. And it's not your words. It's not it's not necessarily the words that you say. It's really how you say things that is the biggest impact. However today we're going to talk about five things you should never say if you want to make more money and then we're going to talk about five things you should always say if you want to make more money and words have an important part of this whole thing but when you get into the speaking game book and you start learning the methodology of the speaking game you start playing the speaking game every day.   When you talk you'll see it's much less about what you say and it's much more about how you say it. But for today's purposes because this is a sales oriented moneymaking oriented podcast, let's talk about the Five Things You Should Never Say if you want to make more money and the first thing you should never say if you want to make more money is, let me think about it. See, I recently learned from one of my friends who is a founding member of the National Speakers Association that I make more money than 99 percent of the speakers in the National Speakers Association. And I've only been doing this for about five years now as a as a professional speaker and my ascent has been meteoric you know in GKIC world. I set the all-time record for a speaker selling from the stage at GKIC.   No one's ever sold as much as me and I really do believe that I know what you should do, what you shouldn't do when it comes to speaking and making money and the first thing you should never do is say let me think about it because decisive people make more money and people who make more money are very decisive.   You go to a restaurant with a person who makes a lot of money. They take a quick look at the menu and they know what they want and they say I'll have the steak, I'll have, fish tacos, I'll have the shrimp whatever they want to have. They just look at it they decide and then they say it. And when you're talking to somebody we all know what it means if somebody says if you say let me think about it.   What that really means is no but I just don't have the guts to tell you no to your face. I don't want to have that kind of confrontation with you to tell you no. So really what you do is you're opening up a loop. You're making the contractor or the salesperson call you back and find out. Well do you want to do it or not. Then at that time you'll say no or maybe you'll be such a chicken that you just keep blowing them off and never respond and get to squeeze everybody’s time. The way to make money is to waste less time and to be direct and decisive and say yes or no and decide.    So that's the first thing you should never say to make more money is let me think about it.    The second thing you should never say if you want to make more money is you should think about it. Don't tell customers or prospects to think about it. Encourage them to take action and be decisive. You and I know you know as a contractor as a sales person. It's a numbers game. You got to go through x number of proposed rules in order to get X amount of Yeses.   And on the other side of that you've got to go through x No’s. However, many no’s it's now. So if you're selling 2 percent you need to get a no for every yes. So, you have to get a no because that means you're one step closer to getting a yes. So, don't encourage customers or prospects to think about anything encourage them to make a decision and say hey you got all the facts here's the price here's what we're going to do. Would you like to move forward? Yes or no. And then when they say they wanted to say let me think about it. What do you need to think about? Here's. All right here. Is it a yes or no. I'm happy either way I'm going is happy with. No as I am with a yes. You're not hurting my feeling right.   It's I think about it that drives me nuts because it's more time sucking out of my schedule. That's right. And we all know think about it means it means no. But it just means you got a follow up and make another call and or two or three or four or whatever.   The third thing you should never say is you want to make more money is I woulda coulda shoulda. Now in life you're going to win some you got to lose some you're going to break even on some don't have regrets just learn lesson. Some lessons come cheap some lessons come expensive. I've had $50,000 lessons where it just came right out of my pocket 50 grand. Those were expensive lessons but I learned the lesson and I don't regret what I did. I have learned the lesson I paid the price and a lot of times some of the most expensive lessons are the best lessons. So, I don't regret them. Just learn your lessons and move on.   They call them seminar. It’s an expensive seminar I went to. Yeah I get it then a lot of travel I had to travel to China my most expensive seminar, geez.   All right then the fourth thing you should never say if you want to make more money is: Let me give you a discount. That drives me nuts. Don't offer people discounts. First of all, you're not doing anybody any favors giving them a discount when you give somebody a discount. They feel like they're getting less value. The only way to give a client a great experience is to charge him a lot of money and make them pay full price. If you don't charge them full price if they get the discount. Now they're looking for flaws in the product. Now they're feeling like they didn't get as good of craftsmanship or workmanship or it didn't happen as fast or the alternative is you may feel like you're entitled to delay the job or not deliver it as quickly as possible or as well as you should have.   Because well after all I gave the guy a discount. And that's a really bad recipe for success. It's not going to bring you the best success the highest paid people don't give discounts. Do you think Tony Robbins is getting any giving any discounts? You think Dan Kennedy is giving any discounts. Never. Never. They pay they charge full price and they give full value and that's the way to do it.   And then the fifth thing you should never say if you want to make more money is the the other side and that is. Can you give me a discount? Yes. Now a lot of people ask for discounts and that's a really negative way to approach things you're going to make a lot more money focusing on making money than you will if you try to save money especially on little things like you go into a shop or you. You're dealing with a vendor and you say hey man can you give me a discount on this and you're really much better off being the vendor's favorite customer being the customer who pays full price money on the spot.    Yeah all the time. And then you'll get the special treatment and the special favors that you need when you're in a crunch and that's when it really is more important that you get the service and the quality that you need is when you really need their help. You can only get that by being the best customer. That's why I always pay full price and I pay. Boom. Johnny on the spot. When I when I owe people money or when I hire a vendor or a contractor I always pay promptly because I want them to feel like I'm their best customer because I get the best treatment that way.   So those are the five things you should never say. Think about it. Let me think about it. I wish I would have could have should or let me give you a discount or can you give me a discount. Yeah those are two words I hate discount. Give me a discount. Can I have it now. That's not even in my vocabulary. I just, drives me crazy.   You really have to educate customers to understand that discounts are not in anybody's best interests. Really. Even in the customers worsening trust to give them a discount, I have a guy that I was talking to not too long ago. He is a roofing infighting and window guy in Rhode Island and I was just talking about marketing, one of my favorite subjects. We are talking about how he's grown his business from one and a half million, to 15, five million in the last couple of years.   And I said well what's your best marketing piece. He said You're not going to believe this. If I tell you I believe anything he goes I have a door hanger. When my crews are out I'll go to a few houses run and they'll put it on and open anything. It’s basically a coupon for a 0 percent discount. Wow.   And he said and then I go to explain him why we don't give discounts because in order for us to give you a discount we are going to have to raise the price. And that's not valuable to you. Wow that's very interesting technique. Yeah. I love doing podcasts because you learn so much from listening to this stuff.   And let's get into the five things you should always say. You want to make more money and this is some really fun ones.   The first thing you should always say if you want to make more money is your full name.   Now when I call people I always say hey this is Clint Arthur. Saying your full name is a very subtle power grab and a very subtle power statement. You're saying my full name is important. I am somebody and I'm not just Clints I'm not just Joe I'm not just Jack or JR I am Clint Arthur the one and only Clint Arthur.   And all celebrities do this. And you have to look at what celebrities do because they're playing the toughest most competitive game of all which is the celebrity game and what they're trying to do is to position themselves as somebody important. And ultimately you know that whole saying people need to know, like, and trust you before they're going to do business with you.   I don't agree. I think that's wrong. They need to admire you like you and trust you they need to think that you are better than them in many ways. Certainly, they need to admire your ability to deliver a contracting job on time. And for better houses than theirs they're not going to nobody in a mansion is going to hire a tract home contractor to come in and do work.   He's only going to hire a guy who's done work on the best mansions to come and work on his OK mansion and they're always going to look for somebody who is the most admirable, the high-status person they can get in the category that they're looking to hire.   And by saying your full name it positions you as somebody who is that important. You can even do this with restaurant reservations you call them and say hey this is Joe can I get a reservation for two at eight o'clock. Or you could call up and say hey this is Joe Smith I'd like to come in with my wife for dinner at eight o'clock. And what the reservation is just thinking at that point is who the heck is Joe Smith.   He must be somebody and you know it's kind of funny just listening to you say that you know this is Joe and then this is Joe Smith. There's a different influx in your town when you say your first and last thing name. Interesting.   Yeah I was talking about this with one of my financial advisor clients and he told me that he started implementing this technique and the very first call that he answered that way he said. Jeremy Montrenga, when he answered his phone. That's what he said. Jeremy Montrenga and that set the tone for the whole entire customer intake and it resulted in the biggest client ever brought on board because the tone was a certain direction and power right from the beginning and that's what you can get when you use that kind of full name technique.   The second thing you should always say if you want to make more money. Give me the money. Now that may mean there's different ways to say that essentially. Essentially that's what you're saying is give me the money. Now this is the very first thing they taught me when I was a student at the Wharton Business School is get the money. That's what they teach you at business school. How do you get the money? How do you get it as fast as possible? The number really this is one of the most important things you can do is ask the customer to give you the money if you don't ask for the order you have a lot less chance of ever getting the order.   There's very few customers who are going to say hey I want to buy this thing. Let me give you the money. There's very few who are going to do that. Your job as a salesperson is to ask for the order which is asking for the money. So, don't ever be chicken about that. Always be happy to allow the customer or the prospect this opportunity to make a decision to give you the money. It's very important.   Yes. When the customer has asked you to be there, has asked you for a proposal it is not time to be shy and not ask for the order. I agree. And too many people too many salespeople never do ask for the order.   Now the third thing you should always say if you want to make more money and this is really important is I'm the only one in the world who does this. Now this is a marketing stance or positioning statement that's so important you don't want to be one of 10 window contractors who install certain windows. You want to be the exclusive licensed distributor of Fleetwood windows.   You want to be the exclusive distributor of Fleetwood windows in this region. And if somebody wants to get Fleetwood windows they have to come to you. Otherwise they don't get Fleetwood windows and I know I'm building my dream house right now in the Hollywood Hills. I haven't a whole house full of Fleetwood windows.   That's what they're going to be. You know why. Because when I go to sell that house 10 15 years down the road those fleet windows are going to add value. I'm going to be able I'm going to be able to say hey my house. Every single window in this house is top of the line Fleetwood that's money and I'm and I'm going to do that and I'm going to pay up for the exclusive Fleetwood guy to come in and install them and buy them for me and bring them to me and install them perfectly because I know that and I try to do the same thing in my work too.   So, for example I invented the speaking game and I'm on www.speakinggame.com  if you want to play the speaking game, I’m the only one selling the speaking game there is nobody else talking about how do you play this game. How do you make money when you speak like this? There is nobody else doing this so if you want to learn speaking game you've got to go to speakinggame.com and you have to buy the speaking game book and you have to opt in and give me your email address to get the free bonus videos because there's no other way to get it. Alternatively.   Auto repair shop owner named Dave Steagall and he came to my local TV publicity training program. Oh, you know I got. You know. Shawn King from risk free guaranteed. Yeah that's who I was talking about Shaun King. He's a client of mine. Is your song King. Yes, song King came through celebrity launch pad. He's done 30 television appearances. No, it was because he was at the seminar I was at.   In Rhode Island and it was kind of funny because we were talking about that and he was positioning himself to open up different places throughout the United States. And he's already going to be the number one guy because he's already got credibility from TV station.   Yeah, he was on Fox Los Angeles. He booked so many of those shows that my celebrity launchpad. Then he went books a whole bunch more off cold calls the way I taught him how to do it. And if you want to do that I'm the only guy in the whole world who teaches how to book yourself on local TV news and talk shows.   So, if that's of interest to you then you can get that from me and that's a powerful position and you as a contractor you need to figure out a powerful unique position for yourself so that you can take advantage of this third thing. You should always say if you want to make more money. Like we've been talking about and then the fourth thing is I don't discount but I can give you this bonus.   When people ask you for a discount. It's you can't just shut them down cold the smart way I believe to shut down the request for the discount is hey I can't give you a discount but I will throw in this bonus for you because I really like you. So for example you know what can we do. Well I could install I'm thinking of a good a good thing for a contractor. I know. When we're doing the alarm system I could install a bonus with regard to like a camera that you could have. I'm not going to discount the price but I'll throw this in extra for you just to make you feel better.   In a mechanic situation if they say Hey can I get a discount on this brake job. Five hundred bucks for the brakes is a lot of money. No I don't do discounts. But what I will do is I will detail your car for you. While it's in the shops and when you pick it up it'll be all nice to clean because I like you. That's the way to handle the discount request and that's the fourth thing you should always say if you want to make more money.   And the last thing is the fifth thing you should always say if you want to make more money is I'm very grateful for this that or the other thing. Look we live in the United States of America. We many contractors are fortunate enough to be entrepreneurs. Owning your own business and we should be grateful every freaking day man.   I mean the opportunity that we have the lifestyle that we lead we made the best lives on the whole planet. And I'm grateful every day for my opportunities to make money when I talk and to have great clients like Shawn King or Dave Steagall or other people who come through my trainings and pay me a lot of money to teach them this stuff so that they can go out and make their unique impact on the world make the world a better place.   I think that you know the contracting industry delivering homes and improving homes for people is such an important and valuable service. And I'm I'm grateful for all the contractors in the world. I've been working with one I'm building my I'm building my dream home right now and I'm very grateful every day and I try to express gratitude as much as I can for the benefit of others and also for myself so that I can stay grounded and be grateful for what I have because gratitude man, that is a powerful ingredient of a happy life.   Oh yeah. There's so many people that they’re who have a lot of money they're not grateful on their kids. They're just miserable all the time because they haven't learned the gratitude effect. Amen. So there you have it man. Those are the five things you should never say and the five things you should always say what do you think about that.   Hey I'm with you on all of that stuff. You know like I don't discount but I can give a bonus. That is my favorite one because I hate giving up the cash. Yes. It's so funny. You know there's like some kind of ego with attachment to the cash and getting paid what you're worth or what you're not worth.   And yeah, I think too many guys are. And you know and here's a funny thing is I think a lot of you know people that do discount and it goes back to what they're always looking for discounts. They figure in order for people to buy from them they have to give a discount which is just totally wrong thinking   One hundred percent man, it all comes down to are you the guy, are you the ball or are you the player that you always wanted to be. Like I say to a lot of my clients. When you drive up to the valet parking stand you're the guy that every valet parker is hoping is going to come up to the valet parking stats. You got money you've got a car that runs. You've got a great lifestyle and you're the guy who should be tipping them two three five dollars. You're the guy.    And the only way you can be the guy or lady as the case may be the only way you can be the guy is to be the guy. Right. There's nobody who is going to put that five-dollar bill in your hand for you. You got to pull the five and put it in the valet parkers hand and beat the guy. And that's the whole thing about discounts. And asking for discounts or giving discounts if you give or ask for discounts, you're not being the guy.   No definitely not because you're, like you said you're taking the value away from yourself and what you can supply that customer. Yep you know I have it happened to me once was kind of funny and it came out of left field. You know usually you know when you're in the contracting business you can read people and you know how they're going to talk and react.   And I had this one lady you know is that your best price and I'm gone. Now this was a 2-million-dollar house and it's just you weren't thinking that. And I’ve gone “Oh, where did this come from?” So, I really had to think about aside, I did that I said “This is what I can do. I said I can give you I can upgrade the paint which was really you know from and that was not that much more expensive but it actually made my job easier.” And I said why don't we give a 10-year guarantee and the paint and you know all that stuff will up this 12 years and they were totally ecstatic about that.   Yeah. There you go. Cause I didn’t, wasn’t about the money. It was more about what kind of value can I give that. And in place of the money because I think in the long term like you know getting ready and you're going to put those windows in you're in your home you're not thinking about what it's going to cost you today. You're thinking about what is going to return me in the future.   That's right. And today especially today with quantitative easing QE 2 has printed up so much money. There's lots of money out there today. It's not about is there enough money. It's about people getting the experience that they want. It's about people feeling like they're getting the value. I'm not saying you should rip off customers and overcharge them. I'm not saying that. I'm saying you should charge the right price for what you do. You should get what you're worth, what you deserve and the price that the market will bear without ripping people off. I agree. Right.   And people are more concerned today about being treated fairly, getting great value and getting what they want. The experience that they want. Especially from a contractor who's going to deliver on time, deliver in a pleasant way not be sending drug addicts and alcoholics to their house. Not having unfortunate experiences where damage cases are done or accidents happen and it's just it's just about being professional and delivering a first-class experience to people today and then it's easy to get a lot of money people are happy to give you a lot of money for a first-class experience.   I agree wholeheartedly. Oh, cool man. Hey this has been a lot of fun. Any anything. I know we went through those five and five. Is there anything last minute that you to just share with our listeners on the back of your mind? Hey we covered a lot of stuff. If you are interested in the speaking game, go to speakinggame.com and get those free videos.   And the book, oh my gosh so proud of this book. It’s hardcover book. It's my first hardcover book. And I'm really excited about it if you do buy the hardcover, e-mail me your receipt and I'll immediately send you the Kindle book and some bonuses and if you want to find out more about my TV training like Shawn King had, or other ways that I help my clients to immediately position themselves for six figures and seven figure contracts like without changing who you are, I can change the way people perceive view.   And if you're interested in that go check out www.clintarthur.tv  and you'll see some of the ways that we do that and I'm happy to hop on the phone and enroll people into a much better and brighter financial future by repositioning yourself as a high money earner. Awesome.   Connect with Clint Arthur   http://www.clintarthur.tv/     There are so many ways to do almost free marketing you just have to think about it or you could just go to the web site and pick up the free download.    4 Hot Marketing Strategies That Can Flood Your Business with Customers  If you have a story to tell and would like to be a guest on this podcast email my assistant Shell at Shell@contractorssecretweapon.com   and she will send you our guest sheet.         Our sponsors  Would you like your phone to ring more with qualified buyers people looking to buy now? Then let’s make that happen. Best Home Services Leads is dedicated to making your phone ring with qualified buyers wanting to buy now. Go to and fill out the form to get more information.       http://contractorssecretweapon.com/money    How about 100 free postcards sent out to your best prospective customers. Radius Bomb sends out hyper targeted, laser focused postcards using a map while sitting in your under ware at your kitchen table then go to http://contractorssecretweapon.com/radiusbomb    Painting Contractors, get up to a 24% better response rate just for having the right memorable telephone number 1-800-PRO-PAINTER.Check out your area before someone beats you to it and it’s not available. https://www.1800propainter.com/      Visit these websites to know more details about Clint Arthur: www.speakinggame.com www.clintarthur.tv

Today's solo riff is around loneliness. Every single goddamn time I talk about loneliness, I hear, "me too...me too...me too...thank you for talking about the taboo.". And it kills me because loneliness is such a silent killer and WE ALL KNOW IT. If we know it then why are so many of us lonely? Why? Because being an adult can be hard. Making friends as an adult can be even harder. Putting yourself out there for rejection? Um...friendship is just one more opportunity for someone to hurt or reject us. BUT. Loneliness IS. A. KILLER. Let's let that sink in. One more time for the folks in the back. Loneliness is a killer. Part of my healing has been exploring my loneliness. I've craved women friends my entire life but when you have the story that you're not a very nice person, you kind of don't really feel like making friends. So I had to address that story first - was I a good or bad person? Was I nice, kind, and worthy of friendship? Could I maintain a friendship? That took a few years to address. And the answers were thankfully, yes. So then I had to go about finding women that interested me enough to step outside my comfort zone. And I had to say, "Hey - I'm lonely. Anyone else lonely? Yeah? Let's see if we might be friends.". . . . This is a short episode so I'm going to leave some intrigue and just tell you...go listen.I'm no longer lonely. The work was not easy. There is literally nothing special about what I did other than make the vulnerable ask. Let me know if you need help making the vulnerable ask. I have some ideas for you. Listen in as I riff on: Being blown away by the reception of Going There and the people reaching out to share their own stories and say THANK YOU. Struggles with loneliness my entire life and what I finally did 2 years ago, at age 45, and why I am no longer lonely.

Hey - I'm hungover to piss today - I ramble about day pizza, Scientology sending me shitty messages, the ridiculousness of being offended podcast news and my Grandad's appearance in Time magazine in the 40's. He won't mind, he's dead. Follow me on Twitter @carl_mann @4theyepodcast or email the show 4theyepodcast@gmail.com. Cheers guys - peace etc..

Hey I'm back!!!

Italobot Podcast 14 - Gets Super Relaxed01. Shinzo No Tobira  - Mariah02. Telefon - Denis & Denis03. Your Love is Dirty - Bagarre04. Running Out of Time - Rexy05. Underwater Boy - Virna Lindt06. Wanna Be Your Lover - La Bionda07. Magic Carillon - Rose08. You ... See - Hélicon09. Night in Paris - Finzy Kontini10. I'm a Lover - Andrea11. Just a Dream - Transport12. Help Me To Forget You - Timecode13. Body Double - Pino DonaggioIt is almost Spring, so I think you need to relax a little bit. Do you need some nice songs while you make dinner? Are you are trying to seduce a pretty person with your intelligence and great taste? Maybe you just need to say, "Hey I'm going to relax right now with a glass or two of wine and treat myself to some me time." Giani says its okay, go right ahead..Subscribe in iTunes.

I was working with a coach who asked, What can you do better than anyone? I don't know I screw up everything I've done... then teach them not to screw up. That's what My Next Success is about. Don't make the same mistakes I made. Get it right the first time!! Hey I'm successful now, but I'm a career screw up and I make mistakes. Success is about learning from those mistakes and moving forward.

Welcome to the latest episode of On the Air with Palantir, a long-form podcast by Palantir.net where we go in-depth on topics related to the business of web design and development. It’s January 2017, and this is episode #7. In this episode, Director of Professional Services Ken Rickard is joined by Cathy Theys of BlackMesh.   TRANSCRIPT:   Allison Manley [AM]: Hello and welcome to the latest episode of On the Air with Palantir. A podcast by Palantir.net, where we go in depth on topics related to the business of web design and development. It's January 2017, and this is episode number seven. This time my colleague Ken Rickard does the interviewing work for me. Ken was at GovCon in 2016, and was speaking with Cathy Theys, who is the Drupal community liaison at BlackMesh. She's got some fantastic information about how to get started in Drupal.   Ken Rickard [KR]: Today we're talking to Cathy Theys. We're at Drupal GovCon, which is a great event here in Washington D.C., Cathy is the Drupal community liaison for BlackMesh. Cathy, is there anything else we should know about you as we get started?   Cathy Theys [CT]: Let's see. Right, so Drupal community liaison. I go to a bunch of events for my job. I fix issues in Drupal. I had a long history of dealing with the mentor program. I tend to serve as a contact point when people have questions about how you get things done in the community or there's a tricky situation coming up, they might ask me my opinion on it, how to deal with that.   KR: I know you from the Chicago Drupal community. I know I run into you at a lot of events where you're helping onboard new Drupal developers.   CT: Mm-hmm.   KR: That's one of the things that you're passionate about.   CT: Yes.   KR: I think that's a really interesting question here at GovCon, we're dealing with a lot of agencies here who are new to Drupal. The keynote we just sat through was about moving the NIH onto Drupal for the first time. They talked about what that was like. I mean what brought you here, to GovCon specifically?   CT: BlackMesh, we're based in Ashburn, Virginia, so we're super close by, local. There's a bunch of us here, there's like eight or nine of us here, so it's really great because I travel a lot. I don't get to see my coworkers all the time, so I go to an event like this, we all get to hang out together and that's really nice. The sessions here are pretty top-notch. There's a lot of interesting topics, both for developers and for agencies. There's a really good range of beginner to advanced ones. It's really great.   KR: And I learned yesterday that I think this is officially the biggest non Drupal Con event in the United States.   CT:  Wow.   KR: Yeah. We surpassed [inaudible 00:02:32] bad camps, so that's good. I want to go back to again your role in the communities to help onboard new developers.   CT: Mm-hmm (affirmative).   KR: In particular, you're a liaison to make it easier for folks to work with Drupal. Like I said, in the keynote, we were dealing with an agency coming on to Drupal for the first time. I think my first question really is, for a government agency or other organizations using Drupal for the first time, what advice do you have for them getting started?   CT: The very, very first thing, I think is important is that the agency makes sure that they have an organizational node on Drupal.org. That's just a piece of content where you can put your logo and your company description. It just allows a way of referring to yourself within the Drupal community. Drupal.org is really important for the Drupal community. It's the hub of everything and it's our central conical repository for asking questions and getting answers. So just establishing your agency is the very first thing. Then I think the next thing that's important to do, is to take anybody associated with that agency that might every touch Drupal and make sure they have user accounts. The profiles on these user accounts can be quite complex, but there aren't a lot of required fields.   It's like pick a username, give an email address, you don't even have to say your real name, but what the agency wants to make sure that their developers do, or not their developers, their tech team, right, does is makes a user account and associates it then with the organizational node that's there. That will immediately open up a lot of doors for getting information out of the community. Without that it can be really difficult to really get the most benefit out of it. Those are I think the first steps.   KR: That's interesting to me because we're making, I think we started with the assumption that you're going to have to interact with the community in order to get your project done and be successful.   CT: Yes, absolutely.   KR: What is it I guess about Drupal that makes that sort of a requirement?   CT: Some parts of Drupal are core, the central package, and other things are contributed projects, themes, modules, distributions. Then there's also custom code, the internal tech team might put together. Much of that is extremely high quality. Some of it isn't. Some of it has information about how to use it, but might be targeted towards a particular kind of role in a company. If the documentation for something is targeted toward a site builder, and you have a back-end developer trying to figure out what's going on, the quality of the project can still be good. The documentation is kind of sort of in place, but it still might be confusing if that documentation isn't written for exactly who you are. So you might want to clarify something with somebody, because when you have a chance to clarify something, ask a question, and get an answer it means that the total time that you spend trying to figure something out will be shorter. Typically, that means it costs less. I think that's really important for agencies.                                                   They want to make that their people are very efficient so that the project can get done in a reasonable time. There are not scary reasons for needing to interact with the Drupal community. I think a lot of projects will just have questions and clarifications and very little custom code that they need to do. But they may not realize that that's possible if they're not talking to Drupalers and getting those clarifications. They might go off on a wrong assumption like, "Oh wait, this doesn't do what I want. I'm going to do a whole bunch of custom stuff." When you have the chance to interact with people, you can kind of make sure you're on the right path. You don't go down that way of getting on a custom code. You may have some and that can be really good, but custom code is very difficult to maintain. Especially if you have turnover in your tech team.   KR: Mm-hmm.   CT: And if you don't have automated tests for it, then that can additionally be complicated. When you're just getting started on a project, right, you have this clean slate. You haven't changed Drupal, you don't have any of this custom stuff. If you know that you want to limit your custom stuff, and then talking with the community can help you do that. I think one of the reasons, in addition to maintenance of custom code, one of the reasons why keeping that to a minimum is important is for security reasons. Interacting with the Drupal community can provide a really nice opportunity to make sure that your stuff is secure.   When you do have to make custom code or patch a module or whatever, and you ask the question on Drupal.org, typically perhaps an issue associated with the theme or the module that the question is about, that gets you started in the right direction. Then you may be like, "Oh. Well I think it should be like this." Or "This is the custom solution we're going to use with this." Because you have the issue, because you asked the question, then you can present the changes that you think are needed on the issue. When you do that, what you get is you get the entire Drupal community, which is quite large, I mean it's got to be, life if you add up people who contribute to contribute stuff, then it's got to be like 10,000 people, I think.   KR: Right. It's a gigantic international community. One of the advantages we always talk about with open source is essentially that none of the problems you're talking about are unique, right? Your project is special to you and it's important, but it's-   CT: And the combination of aspects of your projects could be quite unique. Individually, those have probably come up already.   KR: Right.   CT: Yeah. Then when you post these changes on this issue where you started asking just some questions, and you have the whole entire Drupal community what you get is a chance that somebody in there might have experience with evaluating changes and their security implications. They might see your change, they could run across it, spot something, and then ... Nobody's going to do that and not reach out. The way people reach out then is a lot of different ways. It could be in a comment on the issue, it could be contacting somebody through their user profile, it could be going to look to see what company they look at and who else works there. So that ties back to this first step, right, of the organizational profile and the user profiles. I think for government agencies, security is quite often a very big concern.   The nice thing about doing this, or the opposite of doing this let's say, right? Is you start your project, your internal team you're like, "Go learn Drupal. Go do it." And they don't ask anybody questions, so they want to change something, and they keep their change internal only. Then they don't even have a chance to get this free, possible security audit. I mean it's not a formal thing, but if you don't put it out there, on Drupal.org, then you don't even have that opportunity and you're completely missing it.   KR: Right. It's worth noting for people who aren't aware. So we talked about sign up for an organizational cap, the next thing you have to do really is sign up for security alerts. Security notifications I mean, security notifications come out every Wednesday.   CT: Yeah.   KR: Sometimes there's none sometimes there's several. It's worth noting that any module that you download from Drupal.org that has an official release, it's not an Alpha software, it's not a Beta, is covered by Drupal security team.   CT: Right. What that means though is not that it gets a security review before release, but that if somebody notices a security problem that they can bring it to the security teams attention, typically privately. Then somebody will look at it. It's reactive in that sense. The security team also does several proactive things, but it doesn't just be like, "Oh you can't make an official release until we look at your code." We don't go quite that far.   KR: Right. But it is nice to have that layer of accountability, so when we say, "Oh we think there might be a security issue with his implementation." You can report a security issue and the security team will have a, essentially someone who's trained in security review take a look at things. Yeah, I've participated in those issues. It's quite an impressive process.   CT: Yeah and super high quality people that have a lot of experience looking at it. I'm also on the security team, but I'm a new member. Mostly I just help other people with things. Like you asked, you're getting started, what are some of the first steps? We talked about some of the things. Making those profiles, starting to use Drupal.org to talk to people, to ask questions, and to post possible changes. I think the thing is the agency, it would help the agency take advantage of all these benefits only if they have their tech team doing this. So putting in place some internal processes that encourage this will help make sure it happens. If you want somebody to do something, you should give them an environment where it's easy for them to do it and they see the benefits from it. If you can, you make doing it part of a bigger process.   Yesterday, here at GovCon, I went to see Damien Mckenna's talk. It was called Free, Libre and Open Source Software and You. It was absolutely about this. You have an internal group, you know you should be doing something with the community or contributing, like what the heck do you do? So I highly recommend that people check out his information that's on the GovCon site, it's on the schedule for Wednesday. But there were kind of two or three important things I think that I can say pretty quickly and that is that one step to encouraging people to do this interaction with the community is just to start tracking the interactions that happen. Without necessarily asking, like setting expectations for what people should do. Every project that you answer a question on or things, like just start tracking the interaction that happens. So you can see how that changes over time. I think that's good to have in the process.   One of the ways to encourage communicating on Drupal.org about things, and have it be part of the process, is internally when you have to make a change to something is to track as part of the identifier for that change, the issue number and the comment number. You can't then internally track it as part of your process, if it doesn't have an issue and it doesn't have a comment number. So you could make some kind of standard like in your git-commit message, make sure you use this pattern in this string. Or when you name your patch file, or when you set up your composer json and you're pulling a change, that part of documenting that is the issue it came from and the comment number. Then you can't really get around it, because it's like, "Oh I can't commit it without a number." And then people do and so that can be really nice.   I think the other kind of getting started recommendation that Damien had that is pretty decent is to plan for your tech team to have 10% where they don't have to track what they're doing. So it's not like directly billable or on a particular thing that's in the current sprint, but it's just 10%. Damien says people can do things like four hours on Friday afternoon, tends to work pretty well because you don't really want to be deploying any changes on Friday afternoon, but you have these people and you're paying them to do something. So they might as well be doing something productive.   KR: Right. He's basically talking about, baking aside sort of 10% is internal training time or just community time.   CT: Yeah.   KR: To get things up to speed.   CT: And for that it can help to have some sort of orientation for people. Some agencies might identify one person on their tech team, like you said, that will spend a significant part of their time figuring out what the heck this community is and being the point for communication there. If people don't have that, they might want to get ramped up by bringing in somebody for maybe a day, or two days, and be like, "This is how you communicate with the community." Because telling people, "Oh you have 10% time to do whatever you want." They're going to do things that they're interested in and probably that they kind of sort of know already. If they're like, "Yeah 10%, I could contribute to some Drupal project." And they've never done it before, and they're all on their own and they don't know what to do? The odds of them using that time for that are kind of low. Including some kind of orientation for how to do that will help make sure people can be successful when you expect them to do it.   KR: It's good also to review the types of contributions that people can make, because this is something we talk about with contributors all the time.   CT: Yeah. I switched my description of talking about who these people are, the tech team, right? Halfway through the conversation.   KR: Right, right.   CT: Because I think people have this expectation that the only people who might be doing this interaction with the community are back-end developers, or possibly [inaudible 00:17:14] femors, but that's really not true at all. It's site builders, and junior people on the team. It could be anybody because there's so many different levels of questions. It could be like, how do I use this API? Or it could be like, I'm evaluating these three modules, or it could be we have this ambitious goal for this project, can we even get it done? Those are not all the same role, but they're all on the tech team.   KR: Right, correct. Editors have questions too. We were working on a project and I had to say, "Hey I'm using the Wizzy Wig to upload images, but I can't upload files through it. So what do I do?" And the answer was, "Well we go to Drupal.org and we look around and know if there's a module that handles that." Yeah. It's a project question. CT: Right.   KR: And it's a technical question, but it's not a developer question.   CT: Right. I think it's nice when we're ... One of the super awesome things about the Drupal community that is a little difficult to explain to people who might be getting involved, is how thoughtful the Drupal community is. How we're always looking at the processes that we have, and can we improve them, and what happened, and what should happen? One of the ways that that can be apparent that that's part of our community ethos is that we frequently go through changes in language that we use to describe things. So that we can be usually more accurate, and also more compassionate, more inclusive.   KR: Mm-hmm.   CT: I like that when we use language that's more inclusive, we're quite often being more accurate. Like an example here at this event, and a lot of Drupal events that people might end up going to, is that we use a lot of rooms. We take over conference centers, and typically one of the areas in the past used to be called The Coder Lounge.   KR: Right, right.   CT: Over the last couple years, people in the community who may not be even involved with the camp, sort of take ownership of things. It's open source, right, you see a problem and you fix it. Sometimes people will take sharpies to signs that say Coder Lounge and they'll make them more accurate and also more inclusive, by crossing it out and changing it to Contribution Lounge, because that's what happens in those rooms. When people get together and they're like, "I had this question about Drupal. Perhaps it's an issue we might eventually need to fix something." Or, "I have a question about an issue." So the activity in those rooms is not people coding always. The people in those rooms are not just coders. You can get usability specialists, designers, all kinds of people, marketing people.   I was in Montreal recently for Dev Days, which was a Drupal event. I was in the contribution area and somebody was walking through and they're like, "I need help." And people were like, "Well what do you need?" And they're like, "I need a native English speaker." I'm like, "I'm a native English speaker." And so I started talking to them more and it turns out they were working on writing a showcase that featured their new distribution that they were putting out for Drupal 8 that is going to be kind of the replacement for commons. This person, which was like the project lead, and they had their whole team there and they were doing last minute changes to make this distribution available so a bunch of people could get a nice benefit, not just their agency.   Stated explaining to me, and I was reading the showcase that they wrote, and we didn't just end up talking about grammar and native English things. Because I'm outside to the project, and I'm not familiar with it, and I don't have any expertise in commons, I had a lot of questions. There were some wordings that they thought were clear and that I didn't think was clear. They would switch audiences sometimes, like sometimes be talking to developers or evaluators. They were talking about the community as us sometimes and sometimes the agency is us. Just because I didn't know anything about their project, we were able to work through this together. We actually had a super fun time. We were able to work through this together and come out with a much better showcase that then ended up being a featured showcase on Drupal.org.   Was that coding, in a Coder Lounge? No. Was it contributing to the success of a project? Absolutely. Was it somebody working on the computer by themselves? No. It was just me asking questions. I would read it and I'd be like, "Well what does that mean?" I didn't even have to know anything and I still helped with the contribution. So when we say tech team, it really is more inclusive. When we say contributing, we really mean contributing in the widest possible way.   KR: Yeah. It's probably good to wrap up by talking about that concept of contribution and collaboration. I mean it is one of the driving forces I think for why people, especially government agencies, would want to use Drupal rather than a propriety system. Because this idea is, if we solve this problem the first time then it can be reused. Reused by other people.   CT: Mm-hmm.   KR: For example in Australia, the Australian government has a common Drupal distribution that all agencies can use to kick start their projects. Sort of a fascinating piece. A lot of the stuff that we've been talking about here is around baking that knowledge into your project. Making sure that your project is planned with these interactions in place.   CT: Yeah.   KR: What I'm getting at a little bit is are there parts of your project that you don't want revealed immediately? Is that you need to be planning for? Because sometimes there is proprietary business logic or-   CT: Yeah absolutely.   KR: Or secret things. So do you need to be planning out like, this is release worthy. I'm thinking of an example from the White House. The White House, for example, very specifically released certain code when they did their big WhiteHouse.gov project.   CT: Yeah.   KR: So is that something that sort of project managers ought to be thinking about upfront?   CT: Well you definitely can't just release everything. Perhaps including a little bit of research into the project as to what the common best practices are, and how people make that decision, and being able to spend some time educating your team is good to build into the project. Doing that, when you do decide to keep some things private, doing it with the understanding of the costs of that and the repercussions. It can still be the right decision to make, but you would want to do it with the knowledge of what's going to happen because of that. Like you are solely responsibly for maintaining it. You are going to need to invest more money in doing maintenance and security, and all these other things. It can still be the right decision, but it's going to affect the project differently.   KR: Mm-hmm.   CT: Even if you make that, it's still good to understand what the benefits would be if you did release it, so that you can understand what the cost you are incurring are when you don't.   KR: Sort of as a wrap up, is there any sort of last pieces of advice you have for people getting started? Like the best thing you've ever done or that sort of one special thing? Maybe, I mean what's the best way to approach the community? It might be a question, like you've never contributed before, you have a question, I don't know.   CT: So the best way to do it, is to start digesting the stream of information that's coming out of the community. Pick your favorite medium, I really like podcasts, there's Drupal Planet RSS feed, that aggregates blog posts and announcements together. Many camps record and publish, for free, their sessions. If you like to watch something, listen to something, or read something, like pick whichever one those are, and just time box four hours or whatever, over a couple days and be like, "I'm going to learn something about whatever." Because whatever information you're looking for it's out there. People communicate really, really well in the Drupal community. The one thing I want to add, when we talked earlier about first steps, and we talked about making user accounts and you mentioned signing up for security email lists. The way people do that is in their profile.   KR: Right.   CT: You can subscribe to the security announcements via their profile. Profiling is super important.   KR: It is super important, because it's the way that we do communicate. I want to thank you for spending the time with us today. You've been really fun and informative.   CT: You're quite welcome. It was nice.   AM: Thank you Ken and Cathy. If you want to hear past episodes of On the Air with Palantir, make sure to visit our website at Palantir.net. There you can also read our blog and see our work. Each of these episodes is also available on iTunes and of course you can follow us on Twitter, @Palantir. Thanks for listening.

Hey I'm on holidays! Yes, I know, I was on sabbatical, but I still had work, just not teaching work. OK, in the summer I wouldn't teach either and then there'd be emails I would ignore. So maybe my month of holidays is not that different. We had a power outage last night. Our UPS works! It was Civic Holiday weekend, the most generic of the holidays. I'm great at everything. I got alcoholic root beer! Our friend Pat died just the other day, we dedicate this podcast to her and her family. She meant a great deal to us, and was very close with Isabelle.

#87 - How Lindsay Felderman Turned a Pile of Words Into an Inspirational Book  [Podcast] Jenn T Grace:             You are listening to the Personal Branding for the LGBTQ Professional Podcast, episode 87. Well hello and welcome to episode number 87 of the podcast. I am your host, Jenn Grace, and today I have a special interview for you. As you know for the last probably three months or so at this point, and for probably the next three months to come, I have had nonstop interviews. And I'm so excited to be back on the interview kick, and today I have Lindsay Felderman on, and she is the proud new author of the book, 'Walking through Walls. Finding the Courage to be Your True Self,' and I cannot be more excited to have Lindsay on because she shares her journey of writing and publishing her very first book. Her book talks about the coming out process, and a lot of really kind of amazing things in terms of just getting outside of your comfort zone, and really kind of pushing yourself to realize that you have a story to tell, and your story is important, and your story can impact the world. So it's super exciting to have Lindsay on, and even more so because she is one of the first graduates- or one of seven people who graduated from my spring session of the Purpose Driven Author's Academy, and she's the first of those seven to produce her book through the program. So I could not be any more excited as my second group of authors recently started on June 7th. So I'm in the summer session right now with seven new amazing authors. So it's really kind of cool to have Lindsay on who talks about her experience of writing the book, a little bit about her experience of publishing the book, and kind of the things that have been a little more of a pain versus things that were a little bit easier. So yeah, it's just- it was a really good conversation, and the moral of everything in what we talked about is it's really kind of about finding the courage to just be yourself, whether you are part of the LGBT community or not. So her book is already available on Amazon, which is super exciting, so you can go to Amazon and type in Lindsay Felderman or type in Walking Through Walls, and either way you should find Lindsay's book, and you can purchase it, and I've already read it so I'm excited for you to get your hands on it as well. So that is what I have for an introduction. I don't want to take up any more time, but I do want to let you know that if you want to see the transcript for today's show, if you want to have access to the links that Lindsay and I talk about, if you want a direct link to the Amazon page where you can find her book, you can go to www.JennTGrace.com/87 and that is for episode number 87. So enough of my blabbering on, let's just dive right into the interview with Lindsay. So yeah if you just want to start off by giving the listeners a quick kind of background of yourself, and then we'll get into all the good things about your book.   Lindsay Felderman:  Okay, I don't even know where to start with a background I guess. Yeah I'm Lindsay, I'm in my late twenties, I am gay and I wanted to write a book about my coming out story because I struggled with my identity for a long time, and I wanted to kind of just share that with the world and show them that it's okay to struggle. But at the end of the day you really should trust your gut and believe in yourself. Yeah.   Jenn T Grace:             So how long would you say you had been thinking about writing a book? Because I know when we first talked which was like six or eight months ago at this point when you were first thinking about this, that we were talking about how it feels like there's a lot of books out there for this topic, but in the way that you were thinking about it, it just didn't feel like anything was landing for what you were feeling. So how long has that been on your mind?   Lindsay Felderman:  I probably first started thinking about writing a book probably a little bit after college. When I graduated from college which was in 2006, so I guess like ten years ago- oh now that was high school, college was six years ago. Yeah okay so 2010 I graduated from college, and I don't know, soon after that. I'd been thinking about it, and then a few times I would actually go to like write it on my computer, and start writing, and I always for some reason just had this like inclination that what I had to say didn't really matter, and always ended up just like shutting my computer down and was like, 'Forget this, I don't know why I'm even thinking about doing that.' And then it wasn't until I guess last year, I went to this- I guess you could call it a seminar with Seth- I always mess up his last name.   Jenn T Grace:             Godin?   Lindsay Felderman:  Yes. My old boss called him 'Gahdin,' so then like it's in my head as 'Gahdin' but I know it's Godin, so every time I go to say it I like stutter. Anyway I went to a seminar with him, and it was called 'The Ruckusmaker's Seminar,' and basically it was just this whole thing where you were just bringing like a project, an idea that you wanted to make better, and like everybody kind of had the same theme of like making the world a little bit of a better place. So my old job actually sent me to it, which was kind of funny because I didn't really use it for that, which was probably- he doesn't need to know that. I mean I did, I did think about work, but I really was there like personally. People would ask me, "What do you want to do if you're unhappy at your job?" And I was like, "I don't know. I really want to help LGBTQ youth. I don't really know how to do that." At that point- had I started volunteering for GLSEN? Yeah I think I had already started volunteering for GLSEN, so I was doing that. But other than that I was really unsure what I wanted to do. So I just kind of talked to people all weekend about that, how I wasn't really super happy in my corporate marketing job, but I wanted to find something that I felt like I was helping people. And then Seth wrote a book called, 'Your Turn,' and it's just kind of basically just a bunch of passages just talking about all sorts of things about life, and I kind of was sitting there looking at the book on like a break, and I turned it to a page and there was a quote at the bottom and it said, 'The most important book you'll ever read in your life is the one you write yourself.' And I kind of just was like, 'You know what? I've been wanting to do that forever. I really need to stop messing around with it.' So we had to like break up into groups, and I was in with a couple of my friends, and I just was like, "I want to write a book." And they both were like, "Yes, you should, oh my gosh," and I had never really said it out loud or told anybody that I had wanted to, so that was like a really big moment for me when I realized like, 'Yeah I'm going to do this.' And then I actually went up to Seth to thank him for the seminar, and I told him, "I'm going to write a book." And he's like an accomplished author, he's written like twenty books, and I was so nervous to say it, and he just like looked me in the eye and he said, "Yes you will."   Jenn T Grace:             That's awesome.   Lindsay Felderman:  I don't know, from there that's when I was like, 'I've got to this. It's something that I really just need to do.'   Jenn T Grace:             That's awesome. Not everyone can say that Seth Godin said it right to their face that, "Yes you will." That's pretty impressive.   Lindsay Felderman:  It was cool, yeah.   Jenn T Grace:             So that's awesome. So in terms of like getting past that place of turning the computer off because you're like, 'I can't do this,' and being completely afraid; how did you get from that hump to actually starting to put words on paper? Because I know that when we finally connected, which wasn't until December, you had already had so much of it finished. So that's like a big kind of emotional and some kind of like mental roadblock type of hurdle that you had to get over. Do you have any specific ways that you feel like you got through that?   Lindsay Felderman:  I think a lot of it had to do with the confidence in myself that when I had first thought about writing it, I was only like 21 or 22, and you've read the book so you've seen I went through a lot after that. And I think I was finally in a place now to actually believe that what I was saying would matter, and that I kind of know what I'm talking about when- because I'd been through so many things versus just kind of writing about life. And I kind of got more of a vision too of what I wanted to do. When I first would go to write it I kind of just was like writing my thoughts on the world, and kind of how I felt, and I don't really think there was real purpose to it, and so just like over the years realizing my- focusing more on my vision, and then like going to Seth's thing was really like the catalyst because I said it out loud for the first time, I think that was a really huge thing, and I had some validation from my peers saying, "Yes you need to do that," and that was a really huge thing as well. So then at first in order to like kind of start, I started actually writing my blog which I've been horrible at doing this year because I've been focusing on the book, but writing a blog was super helpful too, just kind of like writing in chunks and having people respond to that. And then I just took my computer and started like writing, it kind of was like word vomit, it was literally just write down everything that you can think of that happened in your life, and why that's relevant, or why that would help somebody else. But I'm not going to lie, it was hard. Like every time I would go to do it, it was super emotional for me. I had to be in a spot where I could actually focus on it, and like really just focus on that. And I actually wrote a lot- because I travelled a lot for work, a lot of it I wrote on like planes because it was like easy to be able to just kind of like shut everything down, and there was nobody there to bother me, and I kind of just could like zone in. But I never felt like I could just go in for like twenty minute spurts and just kind of write, because I would- it just kind of lost the emotional feel for me, and it was too much. But it just was really just telling myself, 'Okay you've got to go do this,' and other people asking me about it. "How's your book going?" Or "What are you doing and what are you thinking about?" And I was kind of like, 'Oh yeah I've got to do that.' And I set a date for myself, I think that was helpful, so I told myself by my 27th birthday which was October 22nd, that I would have my rough draft finished. So when we talked in December, that is what I had done. I had just my rough draft and then I kind of didn't know what to do with it. And I had some peers from this thing that I met at Seth's, that I tried to kind of reach out and was like, "What do you think I should do?" But everybody's kind of going at a thousand miles per hour, so they didn't- we kind of talked through it, but it just got stagnant. But yeah I think the validation of just hearing, "Yes, you should do that," and having the confidence in myself that it matters, and saying it out loud. Saying something out loud and telling yourself you're going to do it is- you think that it kind of sounds silly, but when you actually say it or like write it down, it like changes your perception of what that actually means.   Jenn T Grace:             And how many people do you think you told? Obviously you told the people in that room that were there that day, but did you announce it on any social media that this is something you were going to do? Was it only close friends and family? Like to what degree did you put yourself out there to tell people- or declare this to the world that you were doing this?   Lindsay Felderman:  Right. I guess so initially it was just the people that I met that weekend, I came home and obviously told Sam. I was super emotional when I came home and told Sam. She like realized because I was just not happy in my other job, and she was like super happy to see that I was having something that I was really passionate to start working on. But then I didn't announce it on social media right away. I did tell like close friends and family kind of just like over that next month or so that that's what I was planning on doing. But in my blog a few times, I started to mention it. I didn't kind of just say, 'Hey I'm writing a book, this is what I'm doing.' I would say, 'I'm going to be working on a project,' or something along those lines that that's what I was doing. But I pretty much told anybody I saw in person that I was doing it. So it wasn't like I was hiding it per say, but I didn't really know- at that point in my early stages I didn't have the whole concept down yet, so I didn't- I don't think I actually fully announced it until after I started your class online, because then I was asking people for help. So that's I think the first time that I was kind of like, "Hey, I'm writing this book, I want your story, I want you to be involved." And that's kind of I think the first time I did it. I guess it was like January or February.   Jenn T Grace:             So now in looking at your story, part of- again we briefly touched on this, was the fact that you felt like there weren't enough coming out stories that kind of resonated with you, and I know that when you and I connected, I completely agreed with that because I'm like, "You know what, my coming out story isn't tragic, but it's certainly not fun or great." I don't think anybody's is. So have you found some kind of niche- or I don't even know if niche is the right phrase, but do you feel like what you've put together is really going to help that person who may not have the worst possible coming out story? To just kind of hear from you, and then also that process of reaching out to other people to say, "Hey can you share some of your thoughts?" Can you kind of describe what that process was like in terms of just reaching out to other people to add to what you were already writing? Because I can imagine that can be kind of a pain in the ass in some regards, but also adding good value to the end reader, which would be an LGBTQ youth.   Lindsay Felderman:  Yeah. So it was kind of a pain in the ass, and I actually got kind of the same almost reaction that I felt before even writing the book. A bunch of people said to me, "I could give you my story but there's really nothing to it, or it's not exciting, or there's nothing really that I can say." And I would explain to them it's like no, any coming out story is like a struggle. Like I have a very good friend of mine, her parents aren't really accepting of it, they don't really know that she's with her current girlfriend. They do know but they don't, it's kind of one of those things they just don't talk about. And she kept telling me, "I could give you my story but it's really not that much." And it's like, no that kind of thing matters. The fact that you struggled with your parents, like there's plenty of people struggling with their parents. Yeah like were you kicked out, or were you harmed, or were you severely bullied? Maybe not, but I think the family struggle is probably one of the biggest struggles that isn't talked about. The ones that are just, 'Here's my family and we struggle every day. And yeah we still have a relationship, but it isn't the really, really dramatic stories that we do hear about. I think the majority of us go through that as- you mentioned when I listened to the recording you gave me after you read my book, and you said something about your parents have to grieve the loss of what they thought, and I think that it's like really important, and I think a lot of parents like take a really long time to do that because you spend a lot of time thinking about who you are, and what you want, and when you finally take the step to say, "Hey, yeah I'm gay, or I'm this, or I'm that," or whatever to the outside world, it's like this relieving feeling for you, and it's so exciting, and it's new and it's fresh, and you finally feel like, 'Yes I'm showing myself to the world,' and you weren't showing that part of yourself to the rest of the world, so all of a sudden they feel like you're this new different person, where you feel that this is who you've been the whole time, you just weren't sharing that. And I think that more people really have those types of stories but aren't talking about it because they think that, 'I wasn't beat up, or I wasn't this, or I wasn't that,' and so it doesn't really matter, but every single- I think out of all my friends I have one friend that I can think of, that her parents were like excited when she came out. And it was like this weird thing, it was like a coo, "Oh yay, you're gay, that's so cool!" But like everybody else that I know has had some struggle, something going on where their parents were just not accepting, or they didn't want to hear it, or they just told them they didn't know what they were talking about. And I think especially for me, coming out so young and being told you don't know what you're talking about, was really hard for me. It really- like that's why I really started to question myself and have a lot of self-doubt because the people that raised me, and told me, "Hey you don't know what you're talking about, you're fifteen, you have no idea." It's like wait a minute, how do you know how I feel inside? Like this is not something that we're talking about, like I'm saying I'm dumb or something and you know that I'm smarter than that. It's like I'm telling you I'm attracted to females, I romantically want to be involved with females, and you're telling me that you know me so there's just no way that that's possible. That at that age did a lot of- I don't want to say damage, but almost damage to me in my confidence, in my feelings, and like I had a lot of doubt for a long time about who I was because I really trusted my parents, and I didn't expect that. And I think that a lot of people have that same type of thing, where I wish I had a book like this one, where I could have read and been like, 'Oh my gosh, you were doubting yourself too? Oh my gosh, you thought your parents knew everything and that was like earth shattering to you?' I think that would have been everything for me, and I started to realize that too when I started volunteering for GLSEN and I was speaking to some of the youth, and just in passing just explaining to them some of the things about myself, and why I was there, and just like little bursts of story and they would be like, "Oh my gosh, thank you so much for sharing. I feel so much better about X, Y, and Z. Or why my parents are being annoying, or not accepting." And that's why I was really like, I've got to write this. There's more people out there that I think need to hear it's okay to like have all this self-doubt, and it's okay to like have people not accept you, and it's okay to continue trying to figure out yourself, and not listening to the people that are just not willing to even understand what's going on. So that was a really long-winded answer.   Jenn T Grace:             No that was such a perfect, beautifully articulated answer. And for anyone who might be listening who doesn't know what GLSEN is, can you just kind of give a thirty second of what GLSEN does?   Lindsay Felderman:  Sure, so they are the Gay and Lesbian Straight Education Network, and they basically are the ones that started GSAs in school, so Gay Straight Alliances, and have done a lot of work over the years in really just helping gay youth feel comfortable, and have resources and outlets for them in schools in order to be themselves. And I actually didn't even know about GLSEN until later because of Sam, she worked for Teach for America and then met through GLSEN. But that's over there. They basically started the GSAs in schools, they spent a lot of time with LGBTQ youth, and making sure that they feel confident in themselves, or even as something as serious as the trans bathroom issues that are going on, they work on- I don't exactly know how they do it, but they work to try to get legislation changed. For me it was just volunteering, you worked with youth in the schools, and we'd have meetings, and just kind of talk about like all sorts of issues surrounding the LGBTQ youth, or being queer in high school.   Jenn T Grace:             Perfect. And so for those listening who keep hearing you reference Sam, that is indeed your fiancé, so we want to make sure people know that.   Lindsay Felderman:  Oh yes, that is my fiancé.   Jenn T Grace:             Yes. So if we're talking about just kind of how you started to volunteer with GLSEN, and really started to interact with other young LGBTQ people, did- I guess if you could turn back time and you had an opportunity to have recognized that they were a resource to you, do you think to some degree- because I feel fortunate that I've actually read your entire book before it's published, and I obviously now have a really good handle on your story, but the fact that you had a- that you came out twice. And I wonder how many people have had that type of experience. And have you had- have you talked to others through GLSEN or any of the other work that you're doing and found that that has happened to other people as well?   Lindsay Felderman:  I have obviously talked about it. I don't think I've met anyone specifically that has done it the way that I have. I think the more stories that I've heard is somebody comes out as gay, and then they later realize they're actually trans. So I think for our generation, especially for me when I was in high school, it was like you were gay or straight, there wasn't all these other letters. There wasn't all these other identities, or these things that you could associate with or feel that you were. So it was like if you don't feel straight then you're gay. And I think so for a lot of people in my generation they kind of would come out, 'Okay I'm obviously gay,' and then as these letters have been progressing, and all these identities and people really saying hey, it isn't just black and white like that, there's a lot more going on. And as people started to associate with other identities, I think that's kind of the- I would say double coming out story. But I have not heard of anybody that came out in high school, decided to pretend they were completely straight, and then come back out again. It was definitely an interesting one. I felt so dumb when I was 21. I was like, 'Seriously? You were fifteen, you knew exactly what you wanted, and then like you have to do this all over again.' It was stressful to say the least.   Jenn T Grace:             Yeah, I can feel the stress and the angst in your writing, and so hopefully- well we haven't even said the name of the book, so I would love for people to know the name of the book, and then I feel like we have a good synopsis of what it's about, but maybe give a synopsis as well so that way people who are listening to this can actually go read your story, and really kind of get this- it's not like an opposing view at all, but I feel like your take on it is very unique, and I think for anyone who might be saying- and mind you my audience is mostly LGBT people listening, so it's not like we're talking to a completely unknown audience. But I feel like a lot of people nowadays are saying, 'Well why do we have to talk about this? Why does this matter? It's 2016, we have marriage equality, this, that and the other,' and to me it's a very short-sighted type of view on things. So I feel like you're kind of shedding some light on things that people are absolutely going through right now, like in present day. But yeah can you just say the name of the book, and just a brief kind of description of what it entails.   Lindsay Felderman:  Sure so the name of my book is 'Walking through Walls: Finding the Courage to be Your True Self.' I can't believe I just tripped over that. And it is just a- the whole background of the book is my coming out story, which as we said I came out twice, and then what I did is I took stories of others that represent all the LGBTQ letters, and intertwined them into my book. Just asked them a bunch of questions, and they responded to them about pretty much anything that has to do with coming out. And I totally get what you're saying about it's 2016, and why do we need to talk about it, and let's just everybody kind of be equal, but the issue is we're not, and I think that we can't brush all of that under the rug. And even though we have a lot of milestones, and I will honestly say that I did not think that I would be able to get married when I came out in high school. Like I remember- I think it was Massachusetts passed something and I was like, 'Wow that's crazy,' and I never thought that like that was going to be able to be a thing. You know, like it would be like, 'Hey I'm actually getting married in 2017 and I'm literally getting married, not just having the ceremony to say that I'm married,' and that kind of thing. And I think as much progress as we're making, there's still so many issues that need to be talked about, and I think if we just kind of pretend that they're not there, that- I don't know, I just think they need to be talked about, and I think they need to be validated, and in order to truly be equal with everybody and be accepted, we need to have everybody actually be accepted, which is just not the case. I mean you can turn on the news for five minutes any day, or go on Facebook, and there's just so much hate, and so much ignorance. And even people that are my age, I'm like shocked the ignorance when it comes to like the LGBT community, and the misconceptions, and thinking that people are just- somebody who they're just not. And it's like I think it's just- the fight has been fighting, and people have been fighting, and we've won a bunch of battles, but I still think there's a huge war that we're still up against. And for everybody in the community, and specifically with trans people right now, I mean just the bathroom laws. Like that's just ridiculous. Like the things that I hear people say to me about those like, 'Oh well they can do something in the bathroom. I don't want them with my child.' It's like are you serious? Like any guy can walk in the bathroom and like hurt your little girl if they want to, or little boy. Like it has nothing to do with your identity, how you identify who you are. Like no, they're just shitty people, like stop. And I think that kind of thing just needs to be talked about, because the amount of ignorance I think is really the biggest battle that we need to fight. I mean I literally wrote an article yesterday too, about a boy who identifies as a girl, out in Alaska so she was competing in a track event, and I guess like demolished all the other girls. And somebody wrote an article like, 'See world, you made your bed, now you need to lie in it. You can't complain that this girl decimated the other girls when she was born a male.' And it's just like seriously? You just don't understand. And so I think this type of thing does need to be talked about. We can't just pretend that we're equal and say, 'Hey we're equal.'   Jenn T Grace:             Yeah, I cannot agree more. Have you seen the thing on- the Save Sarah that's a Go Fund Me campaign that's happening right now? And I feel fortunate that this episode is going to air within like a week of us recording it versus a lot of times I have like months delay. But the seventeen year old gay girl in- I think she's in Austin, Texas, who was sent away to a Christian boarding facility that's one of those pray the gay away type of places, and she's basically trapped, and her family is doing nothing so she has a cousin who's trying to kind of help her get through it, and they're raising money for her legal fees. And it's like, okay it is June 8th as we're recording this, it will be out next week, but this is happening on June 8th in 2016, that we have children who are being forced into places that are already deemed not helpful by many, many governing medical bodies, saying that this does not help and it actually causes more harm than good. So it just kind of continues to prove that books like yours, and books like anybody who want to write about LGBT and about coming out, or anything like this, it just kind of continues to prove that there's such a need for it because this stuff is not going away, and it's not going away as fast as we would like it to.   Lindsay Felderman:  And that kind of thing blows my mind. I didn't get sent to like a Christian camp, but just the same kind of mindset. 'You're not gay, you're not gay, what are you talking about?' It's just ridiculous to me. I mean one of the people that contributed to my book I met through my blog, I followed their blog, they followed mine and I posted that I wanted to write this and they submitted their story, and they're in their fifties, they're bisexual, they're married to a man, and she writes about how in her fifties she still realizes she thought that that would just go away, and it doesn't go away. Like I know for a fact that if I'd ended up marrying the guy that I'd been dating in college, or some other guy, like I would still be feeling the way that I felt when I was fifteen right now, and into the rest of my life. It just doesn't go away, and you can't pretend that it's just going to go away. I think that's probably the biggest thing too for me, is I want people to see like hey I tried to be somebody that I didn't want to be. I gave it more of an effort than I think that I probably should have. But I spent four years with a guy that- I loved him, I really did, that's the thing. He is still very angry with me, but I truly did love him, and we were best friends, but I wasn't romantically in love with him. I wasn't sexually attracted to him, and I could have stayed miserable, and stayed with him, and it would have been really bad for both us because we wouldn't have had the life that we should be living because I was hiding behind this wall of me, and I was a miserable human being. Like so miserable, I was very angry, I would get like little things that would happen, I would flip out, and it was just not me, but it was because I was holding so much angst in all the time, and nobody knew about it. It wasn't like only a few people knew, and I was talking to them on the side or whatever, and they helped me get through it. It's like I literally cut out every person in my life that knew that I was gay when I graduated from high school, slowly throughout my freshman year in college. It wasn't like a one and done, it was like I went to college, I didn't tell anybody there that I was gay or that I had been dating girls in high school, because they met me and I was dating my current boyfriend who I call Max in the book. I keep going to say his name and I don't want to do that to him. So anyway, there was no reason for me to talk about it, and then I just kind of let it be, and interestingly enough where I went to college there were people there that I went to high school with but they didn't really talk about it. I think one person that I wasn't friends with of course, because that's always what happens, the people that don't know you out you to other people, told one of my college friends, and it happened to be one of my Christian God-loving college friends, and she almost- she freaked out and I said to her, "I don't know what she's talking about. I'm with Max," and she was like, "I know, I told her she was crazy." In my head I'm like, 'No she's not, I did date girls all throughout high school, and they all knew it.' And so I started to just kind of get rid of it, and I didn't even talk about it like, "Oh yeah I dated girls." It was like, "No that never happened." Like I literally was like I took the delete button and pretended that whole part of my life just didn't exist. And so that pain and that struggle of thinking all the time like that didn't exist- and for my mom, and my boyfriend, it was a very hot topic for both of them because when he started dating me, everyone was like, "Why are you dating the lesbian? She's gay, what are you doing?" So he would get really angry, and even when I told him that I was gay, he freaked out and was like, "No you're not." Because we were best friends prior to us dating, and my mom, same thing. So it was just this hot button that I just never spoke about to anybody, and I didn't see anybody that knew it, and I moved down to Florida and so just nobody knew. And so it was like okay, I just literally went as far back into the closet as I possibly could, and it was just not good, and it didn't go away, and I didn't feel- I still felt that same way that I did when I was fifteen years old, and I think that- I don't even know what response I was responding to, but I want people to understand that it's like not going to go away. If you're feeling a certain way, you need to trust yourself because nobody is going to understand how you're feeling, and you don't want to be that miserable person. Like you could be something so much better. Where I couldn't bring anything to the world- I had nothing to offer because I was just so miserable, so caught up in hiding myself, so caught up in self-loathing. Gosh the self-hate that I had towards myself was bad, and anything gay that came up; stories, or people, it was just I had to- I couldn't take it. Like I said, I stopped talking to everybody, all my friends that knew. It was hard, I don't know why I did that to myself. And I don't want anyone else to do that to themselves which is why I wrote the book.   Jenn T Grace:             Yeah, it's such a perfect way of phrasing why you did what you did. So tell us how you came up with the title, because it's an interesting take on the typical coming out type of book. So 'Walking through Walls,' how- what sparked that?   Lindsay Felderman:  So initially actually, this weekend that I had with Seth Godin, right? Godin? I'm going to say it right. I'm just going to call him Seth. Anyway so that weekend literally was like the biggest catalyst for me. But everybody that was there kind of got like a nametag with a little catchphrase about themselves, so there was eighty or so people there, and each person had this little catchphrase and mine was I walk through walls. And I can't remember other people's to give a good example, but everybody- was something about what they were doing. So my friend works with Lululemon and something hers was about like I help- something with yoga, and every person's thing made sense for them. And for me I think they gave it to me because I worked at a software company, and so I'm not sure if they weren't sure what I did, and so it was kind of like firewalls or whatever.   Jenn T Grace:             Oh yeah.   Lindsay Felderman:  But I'm in marketing so I had nothing to do with the IT thing. So I felt very much a fraud when I was there that weekend because I really didn't know what I was doing there, I didn't really know how I could help my business- my old job there, and I had this thing where I walk through walls. And everyone is doing these amazing things helping children, and creating these like amazing businesses, they all give back to like communities, and I was just like blown away by the amount of people that were there and the work that they were doing, and I just felt very much like I don't belong here. But the whole thing is I walk through walls, and I started- as the weekend went on and I was talking to more people, and kind of telling them what I really wanted to do, they all kind of felt like the walk through walls tagline actually fit me because they were like, "You walk through kind of like these barriers, or you walk through these different ideas of who you are, and what you want to do." So I really actually started to resonate with that towards the end of the weekend, where at the beginning of the weekend I felt very like, 'Oh crap, what does this thing on my nametag? What am I going to talk about? I don't know what to do.' And by the end of it I was like, okay I really like the idea of I walk through walls because a wall is a very permanent fixture, a barrier to wherever you want to go. If there's a wall you can't walk through it, right? You have to find some sort of a door. But what I like about it, and what I ended up kind of playing it into is the whole idea of when you're queer or part of this community is you have to come out of the closet, and it's very cliché, it's like okay everyone's coming out, right? But for me I feel like I spent so much time building walls around myself to hide who I truly was, that at the end of the day I had to break down these walls. I had to actually almost physically walk through these walls that I'd built around myself of how I thought of myself, and I think that that is truly what it is. It's not about opening a door, opening a door is really easy. It's really easy to walk up to a door, hey somebody built this door and it's opening, and you can just walk through it. Where I think the majority of us, and I don't want to speak for everybody in the community, but it's much harder than that. It's not easy to come out, and a lot of times some people have to come out all the time. Like you have to constantly kind of just tell people- when you meet somebody, you like name drop that you have a fiancé that's a girl, or your wife, or whoever. And walking through walls to me spoke much more strongly about what I had to do, just breaking down those barriers that I'd built, took so many years building, to just say, 'Okay this is going to be who I am. I'm choosing to build these walls, and I'm going to do this, and how I'm going to live my life.' And then I realized these walls are trapping who I am, and I need to break them down, and walking through them is the only way that I'm going to be able to be truly happy.   Jenn T Grace:             I like it.   Lindsay Felderman:  Yeah, that's kind of it.   Jenn T Grace:             So what do you think in terms of- so if somebody's listening to this, and they're thinking, 'Wow I feel like I can resonate with her because I totally have sat at my desk and started to write, and then said no I have nothing to write.' Or kind of that stop and start. For somebody listening, what do you think that one piece of wisdom might be to push them out of their comfort zone, and have them just actually say, 'You know what? I am doing this.' Do you have any words of wisdom on that?   Lindsay Felderman:  Yeah I think first probably it would be good to just write in short bursts, and not about anything in particular. Like when I first started to like really write, I just would write almost like word vomit, just like what I was feeling, what I was doing that day. Almost like journals, but not. It's just writing, like you just need to get in the habit of writing and like letting your emotions and your thoughts, putting them down on paper. And then I was blogging, and I would share what I was writing for people, and you've just got to do it really. It's like one of those things where it's like, 'What's the great trick?' And like the great trick is just sitting down and writing. Like it's just taking that time and saying- and it doesn't need to be like you're sharing it with the world, but getting in the habit of writing and kind of just like doing what- figuring out what your writing style is too. I think for me the biggest thing too, I always was told I was a bad writer, so I really struggled throughout high school and college, in like English classes they were just like, "Yeah you don't really have great writing skills." And even in my work, my jobs, I had bosses tell me- my last job, he told me multiple times that I didn't know how to write, and it really like shattered my confidence. Like seriously? What are you talking about? And I worked really hard at kind of just like fixing it in business and whatever, but for me it was like you know what? I'm not listening to how you want me to write anymore, I'm going to write the way that I want to write, and I'm going to put it out there, and if people resonate with it, then okay, and they started to. So- but I just think the biggest thing is one, you have to believe in yourself, you really just have to believe that what you are going to say matters. And two you've just got to start writing. You literally just have to- whatever it is. I don't care if you write, 'Hi my name is Lindsay' five times on a piece of paper. Like you just need to understand that it's okay that you can actually do that. You have to have- starting to actually write, and believing that you can do it is like the two biggest things that you have to do. Because I still look at the proof that I have of my book, like when I get the actual book I don't even know what I'm going to do, but like looking at that- there are so many words in it. I still can't believe like I wrote all those words, but you just have to continue to like every day, wake up, 'Alright what am I going to write today?' And it doesn't have to be every day, it wasn't every day for me, but just doing it. Like Seth actually that weekend, he talked about- I can't remember what the name of the author was, but he said he woke up every morning at 6:00 AM, and he wrote from 6:00 until like- I don't know, 12:00 or 1:00 PM every day, and he wrote hundreds of books because he sat down and he did it every day. And that's the kind of thing- if you want to become something, you have to work at it, and you have to sit down, and you have to do it. And that's the biggest thing. And then finding somebody that supports you, I think too. So as soon as I started telling people, like really my fiancé Sam, she was like, "Wow that's amazing that you want to do that." I think she kind of didn't believe me that I was going to do it. Not so much that she didn't think I could, but she was just like, "That's a big thing to do." But having her support, and just like the support of my family saying, "Yeah you need to do that," I think- and I talk about that in the book too. Like as your coming out story- like just finding somebody that's supportive in your life is super important regardless. Whether it's you're writing a book, whether it's you want to become an astronaut or scientist, or whatever you want to do, you just need to find people that support your dreams and are positive. Because if you bring people into your life that don't believe that you can do what you know you can do, they're just going to bring you down, and there's no point in having those types of people in your life. So it's find somebody that's supportive, sit down and write, and just do whatever- you do whatever you want to do. There's just so many things you can do in this world, and you have to follow your dreams, and you can do it is what I would say.   Jenn T Grace:             I love it.   Lindsay Felderman:  Anybody can do it.   Jenn T Grace:             So speaking of anyone can do it, I totally agree. I think anyone if they focus and they sit down to do it, they totally can. So after the writing part, where do you feel like it was the second most challenging? Because obviously the writing- like you can't pussyfoot around that, there's just- it is what it is. But where were those other types of roadblocks, or perceived roadblocks where you were like, 'What the hell is going on here?' Did you have those moments where you were just kind of stressed out because of certain logistical things? Or what did that look like?   Lindsay Felderman:  So the logistical things- I guess initially they did. So basically I wrote my book, and then it sat in a Word document, I didn't know what to do. And I can't even begin to describe to you how I think like the universe works, but because I volunteer for- because I met Sam, because she worked for Teach for America, because I then found out about GLSEN, volunteered for GLSEN, because I chose to go to one like random Wednesday night at a business thing, walked by your booth, and I didn't have time to stop because I was leaving, I saw Jenn T. Grace, Professional Lesbian, looked it up on my way home and was like, 'Wow this lady is pretty cool.' Started following you on like social media, responded to you- whatever, got on your email list, and then like two months later got an email from you saying, 'Do you want to tell your story in 2016?' It's like, 'Wait what? Yes, yes I do. I literally wanted to pick up the phone right now, call you and be like, 'I absolutely want to tell my story. Like how did you know? Did you just send this to me?' It was so crazy. But so the biggest thing definitely is the writing, that sucks, but then the logistical thing was scary because I didn't know what I could do. I didn't know anybody in publishing, I didn't know do I just send my book to all these specific publishers? I had friends saying, 'Okay look up LGBTQ publishers, and reach out to them.' And that just all seemed really daunting and scary and I was like, 'I don't really know what to do with this.' And then meeting you, and your class really helped with all that, like I could self-publish through Amazon, great that takes all that away, I don't care what anyone else has to say. No that was fine, but then I think the editing part of the book, and going back and just having to re-read what you wrote is like really, really hard. Especially when it's something like the book that I wrote, where it's emotional and every time I read what I wrote about whatever chapter it is, like it brings me back into that moment of that pure raw emotion, and it's hard to kind of put yourself back in those moments I think sometimes, because it was really emotional. So I think just- I think I remember saying in your class one time I said, "I haven't read it in a while," because it took so much out of me to read it, and to have to go back, and figure out does this make sense? And then I had to go back and do like kind of the so what's at the end of the book- or end of each chapter because I kind of realized I just kind of moved on and I didn't really explain like why that was important. So just all that part is just- I feel like once you do it you feel really accomplished that you wrote it, you put all these words on paper, but you're only really halfway there. Like there's so much other things that go into it, and you want to just be like, 'This is a book, put it on the shelf, this is a book,' but you have to do so much more to get it to be- like I'm literally 99% of the way there. I literally just have to fix some formatting and the way that I fixed the quotes, and make it so it fits so that Amazon will say that my file looks good, and then I'm good. And it's just like I have to do it, but it's just getting there. Picking all the little details, and understanding, and yeah.   Jenn T Grace:             And you have a cover now, right? So I believe I saw your cover. Because when I saw the proof it was just plain white, which was like mysterious.   Lindsay Felderman:  Oh that's a piece of my cover actually, that's not even the whole thing.   Jenn T Grace:             Beautiful.   Lindsay Felderman:  The one that you saw on Instagram- or Facebook?   Jenn T Grace:             Yeah.   Lindsay Felderman:  Yeah it's a piece of it.   Jenn T Grace:             I like it. So when- so somebody listening to this, when should they expect your book to be available for purchase? They will be listening to this as of Thursday, June 16th this will be live.   Lindsay Felderman:  I am hoping that it will be published- I don't- once you hit the big- I should just ask you. When you hit the big publish button, like what's the waiting period on Amazon? Is it just like- do they need to like approve it? Or is it just like, 'Hey you're good.'   Jenn T Grace:             It's within like 24 hours that it's available for other people to buy.   Lindsay Felderman:  So yeah, I'm hoping either today or tomorrow I fix those little formatting issues, and then like I'm hitting publish.   Jenn T Grace:             Nice.   Lindsay Felderman:  So we're pretty much there. I would say by the time this podcast airs, you'll be able to buy it on Amazon.   Jenn T Grace:             Good, good. Now there is- you're having to be held to it because now there are thousands of people listening and may want to purchase, which I totally think they should. This was fantastic. I so appreciate you jumping on, and sharing your process, and hopefully inspiring some other people to share their stories too. If somebody wants to contact you directly, what is your- either your blog website, or where you are on social media? How would you prefer people to get in touch with you?   Lindsay Felderman:  Honestly I'll give out all my- I guess ways of contact because I know everybody is kind of different in the way they want to contact. So if you want to go to my website it's just www.LindsayFelderman.com, and there's like a form on there that you can submit and it goes directly to my email. My Instagram is LFelderman so you can find me there, I'm not private so you can follow me, or send me a message, or whatever you want to do. And then my Twitter, which I'm not going to lie I don't really use all that often, is LFelderman22. So those are probably the easiest ways to get in contact with me, all of them are hooked up with my email so I'll get it- and it's email that I actually check, so I'll see whatever you send.   Jenn T Grace:             Or go to Amazon and type in either your name or Walking through Walls, and your book should come up and be available for purchase. And of course if people do buy the book, I certainly want to know. So if anyone listening to this, if you buy it, please let me know about it so that way we can make sure Lindsay knows it came through here. And then of course leave a review. I feel like reviews are always important, even if you only have a couple, it's really helpful to have some reviews because I have no doubt that your story will help change lives, which is kind of the end goal that we're both going for, which is just so amazing and so awesome. So thank you again for your time, I really appreciate it.   Lindsay Felderman:  Thank you Jenn, I really appreciate it more than you know.

Hey I'm going to PWAPT this week (http://www.eventbrite.com/e/practical-web-application-penetration-testing-with-tim-tomes-lanmaster53-tickets-16718889649), so in this episode I talk about that...and how I'll probably be too info-overloaded to record anything on Thursday :-). Oh, and I had a fun Web app pentest this week that I wanted to share some fun bits on.

The party decides that rules don't apply to them and head into the blocked portion of the crypt. What secrets hide behind these doors? Find out! Thanks for listening! Hey I'm having a BBQ next wednesday, wanna come? Playing DnD 5E - Custom Mark Campaign partyrollpodcast.com | @party_roll | facebook.com/partyrollpodcast | patreon

Funny Ass Comedian Joey Vincent From Minnesota! Hey I'm from there!

Normally I don't talk about things that involve other people, but this weekend I attended a great event. I went to a family reunion with the Nurse.  I had a phenomenal time. First thing first this family takes the time once a year to get together and catch up. How cool is that? In a day when many people don't get along with their families, this one takes time to come from all over the place to get together. The nurses Mom has an awesome laugh, and she never stopped. It was great. I met an Uncle who is 92, and his legs didn't work very well, and he used a Walker. Was he grumpy? Not at all. He had a smile on his face the entire day. When he got up to leave (getting up was a bit of a struggle) did he complain? Not one word. He loves life. He loves his family. I also met an Uncle who had come in from California. Here was the interesting thing about this guy. He takes family ties very seriously. It sound like he would hunt down a 2nd cousin through marriage twice removed just to say hi. He also was a musician so obviously we started geeking out on music. But the thing that really got me, is how friendly this guy was. And I'm not talking about the plastic kind you get at business parties. When I left, he shook my hand, and I got the felling that if I said “Hey I'm going to be in California for 2 days, can I crash at your crib”; after knowing me for 4 hours he'd would not only say yes, but roll out the red carpet. I remember when I used to teach customer service classes I would explain to people to greet your customers like an old high school buddy that you hadn't seen in years, and this guy had it down, and the key point here is it was genuine. I guess in a world of spoiled rich athletes, crooked politicians, greed, etc It's kind of hard to find someone to say “When I grow I wanna be like him,” but after going to this picnic I want to be like these guys.

Hey I'm back after a 3 week break! I'm talking about my vacation in Mexico, my 16th birthday (March 6, whoohoo!!), and my first ever job interview!! Listen up, and then email me! MariaTellsAllPodcast@gmail.com http://frappr.com/mariatellsall http://mariatellsall.podomatic.com Any emails, comments, frappr-friends, questions, will get shoutouts on the next show!! (Here's a bright idea - grab a microphone, record your voice: tell me what you think about my show, or what's going on, what you'd like to hear on here, etc, and I will definitely play it on my next show!) LOVE ALL OF YOU!!! ♥ Maria (PS. I think you should check out Adam at the Krebs Cast's podcast about the Bush administrations lies - I love it and I think you should hear what he has to say!