Podcasts about larry you

What you'll learn in this episode: Why advertising for professional services is unique compared to other industries How to make the subjective creative process more objective The process behind some of Brad and Larry's most well-known campaigns Why law firms need to be responsive to the changes in the marketplace, and why advertising is no longer optional Why a good website is a nonnegotiable, especially when it comes to hiring and retention About Larry Cohen: Larry Cohen is the president and co-founder of advertising agency Glyphix. His vision of a small agency of talented, skilled professionals doing great work for great clients is what drives the group. He's a writer. Copy. Scripts. Children's books. In addition to his work with clients, he understands the financial side of their investment in Glyphix…and keeps Glyphix financially strong and stable. About Brad Wilder: Brad Wilder is creative director and co-founder of Glyphix. Art direction and design are his thing. The national and international awards he's won prove the point. Awards for almost everything… corporate identity, advertising, packaging, in-store merchandising, display and trade show booth design, interfaces, for clients like Nestlé, Mercedes-Benz, Baskin-Robbins, Xircom and Disney. He's also a tech geek. Transcript: In the legal industry, advertising has done a 180. What was once considered tacky is now a requirement. And according to Larry Cohen and Brad Wilder, co-founders of advertising agency Glyphix, if you're going to advertise, you better make it count. They joined the Law Firm Marketing Catalyst Podcast to talk about how to make the creative process run smoothly; why a strong website is a critical part of attracting top talent; and why even the best brands need a refresh from time to time. Read the episode transcript here.  Sharon: Welcome to the Law Firm Marketing Catalyst Podcast. Today, my guests are Larry Cohen and Brad Wilder, who are some of the professional forces behind Glyphix. Glyphix is an advertising agency which works across all genres but has particular expertise in the professional services space. They're specialists in all kinds of advertising, websites, print, etc. I say specialists because they're specialists in having their work stand out from the crowd. We will learn more about Glyphix today. Larry and Brad, welcome to the program. Larry: Thank you very much for having us   Brad: We're glad to be here.   Sharon: We're so glad to have you. Each of you, give us your career paths just briefly.   Larry: Interesting question, because our career paths are almost exactly the same in the sense that—   Sharon: Larry, that's you speaking?   Larry: Yeah, this is Larry. Brad and I met in high school at Hamilton High School in Los Angeles. I was a writer for the school paper. Brad was the photographer and designer, and that's where we met. After college, we got together and began working for an advertising agency called Mendelson Design. Back in 1986, when the Mac came out and gave us the tools to do a lot of great creative work for a very affordable price, we decided, “Hey, let's start our own new agency.” We've been together since 1986. So, it's been a very similar career path.   Sharon: So, you've known each other a long time.   Brad: Longer than we've known our wives, yeah.   Sharon: Can you tell us what Glyphix does in general?   Larry: In general, we do professional services-focused, full-service advertising, some marketing, no PR. We try and delineate those two things, but it's soup-to-nuts advertising from brand building to SEO and social.   Brad: The bottom line for us is really helping our clients position themselves in the marketplace against the competition and keeping them ever-present in the minds of their potential customers and clients. That can start with the strategy, and then from there move right through to naming their websites, logos, branding, TV advertising, print. All those are different tools we have at our disposal to keep our clients front and center in front of their clients.   Sharon: How do you describe each of your roles at Glyphix? Are they the same?   Larry: No, our roles are very, very different. I came out of university with a business degree. So, for me, it's the business, dealing with clients, doing some copywriting. Brad is our creative director, so he runs the creative. Whether we're designing websites, shooting TV commercials, doing print ads, Brad's the guy that runs the creative here. I think it's one of the reasons we've survived together, as we have a good delineation between who does what with respect to each other's talents.    Sharon: That is a good delineation. You're not crossing over on each other. Brad, the first time I ever saw the agency was when you did something—I can't remember which company it was for—it was advertising an x-ray. It was for a healthcare law firm.   Brad: It was for Fenton Nelson which is now Nelson Hardiman, health-care attorneys. What was the question? That was a great piece. It was so radically different at the time. No one had ever done it before.   Sharon: It was radically different. It was for healthcare marketing attorneys, as you say, and it really stood out.   Brad: To give some background on that, Fenton Nelson is a healthcare law firm specializing in all things healthcare. They wanted direct mail, not digital, but they wanted it to completely stand out. We actually shot x-ray film with a design that became a direct mail line. It was a full x-ray in an x-ray envelope. It was sent to all the healthcare agencies on their call list. It was 10, 15 years ago, and people are still talking about it.    Sharon: So, it was a real x-ray?   Brad: Yes.   Larry: We actually had to source x-ray film.    Sharon: How did you come up with that?   Larry: That's a great question. We came up with it because Brad and I always try to look for what makes a client unique, what makes them special. In this case, we interviewed Harry Nelson and his staff and they said, “We could go to any healthcare facility. We can walk through the facility and see what their issues are and where they're going to get in trouble. We see things that other people don't.” That gave us the idea that an x-ray allows you to see things other people don't. That gave us a positioning line for the firm, and it was, “We see things other firms don't.” It was a positioning that said, “We're unique because our experience and expertise allow us to help our clients.” In that case, it was to help healthcare clients, hospitals, and facilities stay out of trouble.    It really came out of the client organically, and that's what Brad and I tried to do. I think we're good at helping clients find a position for themselves, find the thing that makes them unique. Are you the most expensive? Are you the most experienced? What is it that you're the best at, and how do we translate that into a creative message? Then, how do we get that in front of our potential clients?   Sharon: Do you tell the client that even if they don't ask for it? Do you tell them what you're working from?   Larry: Yes, absolutely, because we want to educate the client. I think clients find it exciting. People love hearing stories, and every firm, every client has a story to tell. The trick is to find that story. I have to uncover that and deliver that story. It's compelling. You think about great brands. Most of them have a story behind it: why the company was started, what problem you are solving for your customers. That's what customers and clients care about. Nobody cares about what you do. They care about what you can do for them, how you make them successful. Our job is to translate what you do into why somebody should care.    Sharon: Is that how you got the name Glyphix? Is there something with Glyphix that tells clients that?   Larry: It was painful naming. We're a creative firm, so we have to have a creative name; we have to do things differently. We went through hundreds of names. We kept focusing on the name “glyph” as in a hieroglyph. It's using a picture or several pictures in a row to tell a story. At the time, everything that ended in X was much cooler, and we just stuck with Glyphix. Even our logo is a little “GX” man—it's on Glyphix.com; check it out—that tells a story through pictures and simple storytelling.   Sharon: I was thinking this while I was looking at the website. You have these very simple line drawings that tell what you do. Was it you who came up with that, Brad?   Larry: Are you talking about the video?   Sharon: Yeah, the video.   Larry: We typically come up with work as a team. At Glyphix, we have a great bunch of people who work together as a team. At the time, we had a gentleman, David Allman, working with us. I think David and Brad came up with that idea. Then we had it animated, and we had a wonderful gentleman who did the voiceover. We wanted a very simple way to explain what we do to people.   Sharon: As I was looking at it, I thought it was great, but it's like, “How do they come up with it?” I don't know if I could have.   Larry: We're very glad that other people can't do it; otherwise, we'd be out of work.    Sharon: If somebody says to you, “What does the firm specialize in?” do you have an area you specialize in?   Larry: I'm not sure about the word specialize. We do a lot of work with professional services firms. We understand how they function and how they work. We work with dozens and dozens of law firms and accounting firms, helping them craft their position, understand the brand and keep it in front of clients.    Ballard Rosenberg is a firm out here in the Valley. We keep them in front of their clients by keeping them in the business journals every month. For other firms, we'll get them on television. For others, we'll put them on KCRW radio. For us, it's helping our clients manage their brand. For others, it's evolved into websites and doing some social media for them. I think nowadays people are so busy, it's difficult to keep up with everybody. The key is keeping our clients front and center in the minds of their clients so when a need comes up, they remember them.   Brad: And I should say we don't do only professional services. We just happen to be very good at it. Professional services, especially with law firms, they bring their own special challenges, and we've learned to work around those things. You often hear that working with law firms is like herding cats. We've gotten pretty good at herding cats, but we handle many other firms. Our newest onboard is an AI and machine learning company. It couldn't be any more different than law firms, and the approach is very different from law firms, but again, we're looking for that story, that one thing they do best.   Sharon: How would you say that working with professional services firms is different than working with a products firm, let's say?   Brad: It's super different, because with professional services firms—I don't mean this in a negative way, but there's a lot of ego involved because it's personal. You're talking about selling the people. With a product, you can get some distance in between them. I can go to a CEO or marketing group in a firm and say, “Hey, your product is this and that. Here's the audience. Here's how they're going to respond.” There's some objectivity you can bring to that.    With professional services firms, it's very, very personal, especially when you get in a room with three, four, five partners of a law firm. They all have opinions. They're all valid, but they're all personal. Imagine taking five lawyers at a law firm out to purchase one car. You'd come back with a motorcycle. They have very strong opinions. They're always very articulate. They're very bright folks, so they all have valid opinions. Trying to get to a consensus is oftentimes difficult, as opposed to a product that stands on its own. Instead of telling a story about the product, you're telling a story about the people at the firm, and you have to get them over that hurdle. The firm itself has a brand and that brand stands for something. If you can get to that point, they can put their own personal biases aside and do what's best for the firm, but that's a challenge sometimes.    Sharon: I'm sure that's a challenge if you're dealing with ego. How do you overcome that? If you have a managing partner who feels one way and a senior associate feels differently, or if you're talking to an equity firm and the driver feels they're going one way and the other people are going another, how do you overcome that?   Larry: It's a great question. It's challenging. You can start by listening. Hopefully, we can spend the first meeting or two really listening and coming back to them with a creative brief that says, “Based on all the input we've received, this is what we're hearing. This is the direction to go in. Do we all agree on this?” We'll never start a design, whether it's a logo or a website or an ad campaign, until we understand who we're talking to, what we're trying to say, what our goals are. We try to get them all on the same page. That's the first hurdle.   The second hurdle is when you show creative. Creative is subjective in nature. People like blue, but they hate green, and they like flowers, but they don't like butterflies. Who knows? With that subjectivity, we try to bring objectivity to this process by saying, “Based on what we heard, this works well for you. Here's why these colors work well. Here's why these graphics work well. Here's why this typestyle works well.” We bring objectivity and some rationale behind the design, but again, you can look at a painting and you can love it or hate it. It may be a Rembrandt, but you may still hate it. It's hard, and you just take time. Sometimes these projects will go on for months and months because they're debating in-house or they're busy. We do our best to keep moving things along and trying to get to a final answer.   Brad: In addition to that, I think it's partly common ground. If you have a lot of partners and they all have strong opinions, it's sitting down long before any creative and discussing likes and dislikes, because personal likes and dislikes are every bit as valid as any other design criteria. In talking with you as long as possible, we try and pick out the common ground they all agree on to start with and then build outward from there. We build on the common ground and the trust that's been created in the initial discussions. Then that's where, as Larry was saying, we try and make it as objective as possible in a very subjective industry. That's one of the biggest challenges about being in advertising.    Sharon: I bet it's a challenge with a lot of professional service industries. Are you ever the order takers, as we sometimes get accused of being? Do people call you and say, “We need a new website,” and you go in thinking, “O.K., let's look at the website. We may not need everything new.”   Larry: I would say definitely not. In fact, we've lost business in the past by saying, “This is not what you need.” I feel like our responsibility is to talk to the client and say, “Based on your goals, here's what we suggest.” Now, if you want to ignore that, O.K., we can do what you're asking us to do. But I'll always give a client our best advice right up front, because otherwise I don't think we'll be successful in the long term, and they won't be successful. That doesn't work for us.    Most of our clients we've had now for, some of them, five, 10, 15 years. I think they know we will make the hard call and give them good advice. We may not be so popular, but I think in the long run, it serves them well. We try very hard to avoid being order takers. We always say, “If you ask for this, we'll give you that, but here's what we think you should do as well. Here are both options for you.” I always want to feel good that we gave the client the best thinking we could, even if they want to make a bad decision. That's up to them, but I want to give them an option and say, “Here's another way of going. What do you think?   Brad: We will never do only what the client asks for. I don't want that to be taken wrong, but if they ask for something very specific, if they've got something in their mind they want to get out and see how it looks, we're happy to help them with that process. But we're always going to give another opinion or two about a possible better way to get them thinking in larger spheres or in different directions.   Sharon: Do you think it's possible to rebrand? If everybody has a brand in their mind, is it possible to change that?   Brad: Oh, absolutely. Brands evolve constantly. If you look at the big brands, the Apples and Cokes of the world, they're constantly evolving and changing and staying current. We do that very often. We just finished a project for Enenstein Pham & Glass, a great law firm over the hill in Century City. They wanted to tighten the name up to EPG. We had a great project we did with them. We redid the logo and updated collateral materials.    I think firms constantly need to be responsive to the changes in the marketplace. They need to stay fresh. Law firms oftentimes say to us, “We don't need a website because nobody checks our website.” Well, the truth is when you're hiring, that's the first place they go. We've been working with a lot of our law firm clients and accounting clients so their site is designed in part to attract young talent, to bring people on board. Your website is your calling card. It's your office. Everybody goes there and checks it out just to validate who you are. Oftentimes, you have to understand who is going there. If you are looking to hire, which every accounting firm we know of right now is looking desperately to hire talent, that's where talent goes. They check out your site and get a sense of who you are.    Larry: And to see if it's some place they want to join. The better the candidate, the better the website should be to impress in both directions. Most people think of a website as outbound. I don't get new business from my website, especially in professional services. It's usually word of mouth. But they're always going to validate, and that validation has to be up to date. It has to be modern. It has to be credible for every law firm, and everybody knows this.    For 20 years, the professional services industry has been going through upheaval after upheaval because it came from a time when law firms, if they advertised, they were shysters. Now more than ever for law firms, you have to think about marketing and social and putting your best face forward. That's a huge turn of events, and I think some law firms are still having trouble getting used to that idea.   Sharon: Do you think that in any professional service there's room for traditional advertising, for print, for newspaper ads or magazine ads? Is there room for that?   Larry: Oh, sure. I think they all complement each other. As I said, for Ballard Rosenberg, we keep them current. They represent companies in employment law cases. So, for that firm, we keep them in front of the L.A. Business Journal, the San Fernando Valley Business Journal and some other publications where businesses are looking, where CEOs are reading those publications. I think there's definitely room for that.    For other clients—I'll give you an example. With direct mail, people think, “Why would you use direct mail for a law firm?” Well, we've got a number of law firms who don't want to do traditional advertising, which I completely respect. They have a list of 5,000 clients they've worked with over the past 10 years who they don't normally talk to. We put together a concept called an annual review. It's an annual report that goes out, basically. It's not the financials, but it's a yearend review on what happened at the firm this past year. It talks about cases they've won and publicity and pro bono work and new hires. It's a lovely booklet, and it goes out at the end of the year to 5,000 clients. Suddenly, it's a non-advertising way to get in front of all those clients you've had in the past, remind them of who you are, remind them of the exciting things going on at your firm and why they should do business with you.    We've done this for a number of firms and they've gotten tremendous response. People say, “I love this. I get an update on what's happening at the firm.” It's a very non-solicitous advertising piece, but it still an advertising piece because it communicates what's going on. It's a communication tool. I think it's traditional because it's direct mail, but it's been tweaked a little bit to be more contemporary. All these things combine to deliver an impression to your clients.    Sharon: That's interesting. Given the amount of direct mail I receive, my first reaction to what you're saying is, “Who would do direct mail today for any kind of marketing?” But I guess a lot of people do.   Larry: I think the key is to do it well. I agree with you. You get a lot of crap in the mail. 90% of it is garbage. Our job is to make sure that whatever we do, like that x-ray we did for Harry Nelson years ago, it's got to stand out. We've done those campaigns for law firms. We have a lot of nonprofits we work with. Whenever Brad and I do a direct mail campaign, we always push the pedal to the metal on creative. How out there can we be to get some attention, whether that's headlines, colors, different sizes, different materials? Brad and I have sent things out in tubes before.    Brad: Even bubble wrap.   Larry: The direct mail piece was sent out in bubble wrap because they were an insurance company. It was about protecting yourself, so it went out in bubble wrap. People went nuts. They were like, “This is so creative. I had to open it. I got a piece of bubble wrap in the mail. I had to open it up and see what was inside. You got me. I gave you the 10 seconds to read it.” So, I think the trick is to get creative.   Sharon: That makes a lot of sense. Brad, when it comes to picking the right photo, you did a little booklet on your website. What do you think about when it comes to picking the right photo? What do you both think about?   Brad: Actually, that one was very specific. That wasn't actually about photo composition choice. We tried to educate our clients about aspects that are really different with digital advertising. The biggest problem we've had over the last five, six years is responsive web design. Every screen has a different ratio, a different dimension, a different pixel count, and website elements move depending on how big the screen is. Most people think of websites as the old desktop publishing page layout, where you put everything in. Then, if you want to move it around, it's going to stay exactly the same, like a print piece. The web is not that way at all anymore. It is completely data-driven and responsive to the screen size. It's a phone up to a 32-inch monitor. It still has to lay out properly, but it's not the same.    So, we had this issue with photos. People would pick the exact cropping of a photo they liked, and it would have things on the edges and the corners of the photo that were very important to the composition. When we put it in the website, when the website responsive design would change for different screen sizes, the photos would crop differently and something that was important on the edges would get cut off. It's a very difficult concept to understand, that even a webpage looks different on every screen. It's a difficult concept for everyone to deal with. I know people in the industry who still have trouble with it. So, that booklet was to try and help clients understand that digital technology is not the way it used to be and there are adjustments that need to be made in that area.    In terms of regular composition of photos, we generally do it for the client. We alter it. We choose stock photos, and we work with them to find the photo they like. We are always keeping an eye on the images we give them to make sure they are proper for the branding with their approval. I totally forgot about that being on the website.   Sharon: How do you keep current? As you said, it changes so quickly.   Brad: Neither of us wants to answer that. It is insanely difficult. I personally spend probably eight hours a day in addition to work trying to keep up. I'm not the spring chicken I used to be, and it's getting harder and harder, but I love the industry. In fact, I love the web far more. I grew up on traditional advertising. I've done print. My first job was for a print company, actually, on the presses. I know traditional, but I prefer digital. It's more free flow. It's more creative. Sometimes, when things have a lot of hard parameters, you have to get super creative, and the web has a lot more parameters than print. I love it.    I love being in it, but it's starting to vulcanize a little bit where you need specialists. There are specific SEO specialists now in different areas. Social has become an industry in itself. We used to do it all in-house, and it's starting to get too complicated to do that. So, we find the best we can. We don't do PR, but I love the industry. If I didn't love design and trying to make companies look better, I wouldn't have been doing this for the last 30 years. It's barely better than ditch digging, but I really love it, as an old partner of ours said.   Sharon: You have to love it. You have to bite the bullet, I suppose, to keep abreast of everything.   Brad: Absolutely. Larry, on the other hand, he wants nothing to do with technology. So, we keep him doing what he does best, and we try and educate him as best we can on the fly. But we have developers in-house, we have designers in-house, and all of them have to be more up to date on the nuts and bolts of digital marketing than you did before. It used to be that a designer had to know how to create something that will print correctly, but he didn't have to know how to do the printing. Now, you have to learn a little about coding and what coding platforms there are for web and for social and APIs and all of that stuff. It's getting into the weeds, but once you grasp it, it's actually fascinating. It really is.    Larry: You're talking about technology. Once we thought we had it all figured out and websites were a piece of cake, then the ADA comes along. Now you have ADA compliance issues. You have to really understand what ADA limitations are in terms of fonts and colors and be responsive to that. Technology is always going to be encroaching on the creative aspect. You have to learn how to balance the two of them.   Sharon: I agree with a lot of what you're saying. You do have to balance, and it seems as soon you've learned it all, it changes. Let me ask you before we end, because you did write something about this. How do you know if your logo sucks and what do you do about it?    Larry: That's a tough one. It's hard to go up to someone and tell them their logo sucks. It's like telling them their baby is ugly. They may love the logo or hate it, but if you say something about that, they're going to take it personally. They should take it personally. Your logo represents you and your company, especially in professional services, and very few friends are going to tell you your logo sucks. That's just the way it is. When someone's building a company and building a brand, you don't want to tear them down if you're a friend.    So, the best thing to do is get a third opinion. Get an objective view. Every design firm, every ad agency will be more than happy to do a quick review of your identity. Every marketing design firm is going to have a different opinion about it, but they will be as objective as possible within their preferences. There are design rules that can't be broken. So, if it breaks design rules, the logo needs work.   Brad: Things also just get dated. I'll go back to the Cokes and the Disneys and the Apples of the world. These are companies that don't need to change their logo, yet they do because society evolves. Things change, and you want to look progressive and contemporary. I think even just a logo refresh is a great idea. You don't have to change the whole thing, but maybe bring it up, make it current. Fonts change. Colors change. There are lots of ways to refresh a brand. Plus, it gives you a wonderful opportunity to go back to your clients and say, “Hey, check out our new logo. Same great commitment to service, but a new logo reflecting whatever it is.” It's a nice way to take a new look. It's like painting your house. It gives it a new, fresh look.    Sharon: Larry and Brad, thank you so much for being with us today. You've answered a lot of questions and given us a lot to think about.   Brad: It's a pleasure. It was great.   Larry: Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Theo and Leona of the World Bugle (Team E-O to you) return for another scoop. (they originally appeared in Cultists Stole My Baby!) Written and produced by Julie Hoverson Cast List Theo - Henry Marks Leona - Robyn Keyes Chief - Julie Hoverson Larry - Dave Fontenot Baby Dali1 - Julie Hoverson Baby Dali2 - Risa Torres Baby Dali3 - Danar Hoverson Waitress - Sirena Raine Melody - Tanja Milojevic Harmony - Cailean Evedus Other Dalis - Marleigh Norton, Kat Pryde, Gwendolyn Gieseke-Woodard, Kimberly Gianopoulos, Kimberly Poole, Brittney Cruz Music by Josh Woodward Dali Song - Music by Reju (used under creative commons license), words by Arthur O'Shaugnessy, Sung by Julie Hoverson Editing and Sound:   Julie Hoverson Cover Design:  Julie Hoverson   "What kind of a place is it? Why it's an infamous newsroom, can't you tell?" **************************************************************************** Whatever Happened to Baby Dali? Cast: [Opening credits - Olivia] Chief Theo "Smoothie" Walsh Leona Pope Dali 1 Other Dalis Melody Harmony Waitress Larry Four Reporters OLIVIA     Did you have any trouble finding it?  What do you mean, what kind of a place is it?  Why, it's a notorious Newsroom, can't you tell?  MUSIC SCENE 1 SOUND     bullpen REPORTER 1    So your sister said - oh, not YOUR sister, a NUN named SISTER. REPORTER 2    Drinking the vinegar counteracts the toxins in the system due to-- REPORTER 3    Fourteen people just vanished?  Were you on any mind-altering substances? REPORTER 4    Yes, if you spell it backwards it certainly does make the word-- SOUND    DOOR CLOSES THEO    Chief?  I - uh-- [breaks off in horror] SOUND    RUSTLE OF TAFFETA CHIEF    Whaddaya think? THEO    [freaked out] Are you... getting married?  [squeak] In white? LEONA    [quiet] Are you really asking? THEO    Uh-- CHIEF    Nah - scared ya didn't I? THEO    Uh-- CHIEF    Don't worry.  I'm still eligible. THEO    Uh--? LEONA    Back away.  Don't take your eyes off her.  CHIEF    Whaddaya think?  It's a little tight in the gut.  Gonna have to cut some of them carbs. THEO    [trying] Yeah.  That would do it. CHIEF    At least I got the shoulders to pull off strapless.  Hey, where you going? THEO    Uh--! LEONA    Eager to get to work.  You know these young pups. CHIEF    Good attitude.  Interview room 3. THEO    Oh, good! LEONA    [side of her mouth] Quick. SCENE 2 SOUND    DOOR SHUTS THEO    what was that? LEONA    It's June. THEO    And? LEONA    Happens about this time every year. THEO    Why? LEONA    Bridal feature pull-out?  I don't know! [hissed] I don't ask!  [commanding]  Room 3. THEO    Oh, right. SOUND     DOOR OPENS LEONA    You go first. THEO    Right.  [a beat]  Holy cow!  It's her! LEONA    Chief doesn't move that fast.  Especially in a train. THEO    No, I mean - I mean - It IS you, isn't it? DALI 1    Is it safe here? THEO    Why does everyone ask that? LEONA    Who does he think you are? DALI 1    I'm - I'm Baby Dali. THEO    I knew it!  I love your music. LEONA    We don't do publicity stunts.  C'mon, Smoothie. SOUND    HUSTLES HIM OUT OF ROOM, DOOR SHUTS THEO    We don't? LEONA    Of course we do.  When we arrange them.  Part of our job - your job - is to protect the Bugle from being used for anyone ELSE's cheap publicity. THEO    Oh.  But Baby Dali's been missing for fourteen days! LEONA    Probably in rehab. THEO    No!  No one knows where she's been!  If we could break the story-- SCENE 3 LARRY    Hey!  You'll never guess who I just took a call from! THEO    Ratboy? LEONA    State mental health board? LARRY    [gloating] Baby Dali.  She's ready to come home, and called US to break the story! THEO    Wait, but she-- SOUND    SLAP LEONA    [covering] When did she call? LARRY    Just now. THEO    Where did she say she was? LARRY    Hah!  No way.  This is MY scoop!  [running away, laughing]  My ticket out of the bullpen!  [stops, turns back] Hah! THEO    That's ... sad. LEONA    Yeah.  Send a stripper.  Come on. THEO    Where are we going? LEONA    [exasperated] Room 3? THEO    Aha! SCENE 4 SOUND    DOOR OPENS LEONA    Sorry about that.  Had to do some quick fact checking. THEO    Yeah!  Make sure you're really.... [melting]  Really her. DALI 1    Precisely the problem!  Proving I'm her!  I mean me. LEONA    [muttered prompt] Oh?  THEO    [gasp] Oh? DALI 1    I'm plagued with posers! LEONA    [sigh]  Aren't the solid black sunglasses and white fright wig a bit of a giveaway? THEO    [infatuated] I knew who you were the moment I saw you. DALI 1    You have a nice face. THEO    I do? LEONA    My colleague will now take notes. SOUND    PEN, PAPER, SLAPPED DOWN THEO    Yeah.... MUSIC SCENE 5 SOUND    IN CAR THEO    Where are we going? LEONA    Following Larry. THEO    Who? LEONA    [disgusted sigh] THEO    [getting it] Oh, him!  How do we find him again? LEONA    He hasn't left yet.  THEO    How do you know? LEONA    I ordered donuts. DALI 1    Oh! LEONA    Shh.  You're not here, remember? DALI 1    [singing] I swear! THEO    Why is she hiding in the back seat under your gym bag? LEONA    One - so she won't be seen, since she won't take off that wig. DALI 1    It is my own hair! LEONA    Like hell.  I saw it shift. DALI 1    It is a wig - but it IS my own hair. LEONA    [shudder] uhhhhh. THEO    And two? LEONA    Two what? THEO    You said that was reason one.  What's two? LEONA    So you can focus, dumbass. THEO    Oh. LEONA    There he goes!  Keep your eyes on the green Camaro. THEO    Camaro? LEONA    [growl] Green car.  Coming out of the parking garage! THEO    Gotcha. MUSIC SCENE 6 AMB    PARK LARRY    [giving a code phrase] The dog flies in the springtime. DALI 2    [squeaky] Yellow is the color of my true love's eyes. LARRY    You sound... different. DALI 2    I use a voice modulator on stage. LARRY    Ah.  So.  The world is listening.  Tell me your story. DALI 2    Listening?  Aren't you from the print media? LARRY    Oh.  Yeah.  I was speaking figuratively. DALI 2    I see.  Anyway...  I have a really big story, but I have to be certain it will see print! LARRY    Of course! SOUND    FOOTSTEPS STORM UP DALI 1    Imposter! DALI 2    Imposter! LEONA    [off, whispered] I thought you were watching her! THEO    [vague] Uh-huh. LEONA    Go get the story dumbass.  THEO    But you? LEONA    I can take photos from here. THEO    [vague] Okay. SOUND    SLAP LEONA    Did I mention I'm not giving warnings any more? LARRY    [angry] You?  No way!  The tale of two Dalis is all mine! THEO    I - we - brought one of them. LARRY     Then dance with the Dali you came with!  It's only fair! DALI 1    She's a fake! DALI 2    She's a fake! THEO    Waitaminute.  You don't even sound like-- BOTH DALIS    Autotune!! DALI 3    [chiming in] Autotune. THEO    Oh. Huh?  Three? MUSIC SCENE 7 WAITRESS    All, righty then - that will be 3 orders of waffles, three fruit cups- ALL DALIS    It's the only thing vegan on the menu. WAITRESS    And two pots of coffee.  Comin right up! SOUND    DOOR OPENS SOUND    DINER NOISES SOUND    DOOR SHUTS, CUTTING OUT THE SOUND LEONA    [prompting]  Ok, this isn't going to last forever - someone will say something, eventually, and then these three won't be an exclusive any more! LARRY    Exclusive to all three of us.  I get my credit, too. THEO    Of course!  Fair is fair. LEONA    [muttered] I got your credit right here. DALI 1    Can we get on with this? DALI 2    I have a recording session in two hours. DALI 3    No, I do. DALI 1    How can they be so much like me? LEONA    Ask them some questions - figure out which is the real one. THEO    Right.  Ok.  Which of you is the real Baby Dali? ALL DALIS    I am. DALI 3    Or should I say [singing] I am me and no one else is. LARRY    Sounds convincing to me.  LEONA    I think that one's a guy. THEO    That doesn't help... there's been "speculation" about Dali. LEONA    [disgusted noise] Ugh!  At least let me get some snaps while you think. SOUND    TAKING PHOTOS THEO    Gee, they even pose alike. LARRY    I guess it will all come down to DNA. THEO    I don't think so.  Dali is a notorious germophobe, and a compulsive clean freak.  [nervously over explaining] According to her official web page, which I only browsed for informational newspaper business reasons. LARRY    Yeah, me too, but I didn't read much.  Those costumes are pretty skimpy. THEO    Don't be so creepy, not right in front of her - uh, them. SCENE 8 SOUND    DOOR KICKED IN THEO    Whoa!  LARRY    [faints] Uhhh... LEONA    I'll be in the... uh...  Corner. THEO    Stop right there! MELODY    You're not giving orders here! HARMONY    Yeah.  Get those hands up where we can see them. LEONA    Keep them talking, this is great.  THEO    Talking? LEONA    Find out what they want. THEO    They're dressed like ninjas.  MELODY    What did you say? THEO    Nothing!  MELODY    I heard you, and I have perfect pitch. THEO    oh.  Nothing ... uh... uncomplimentary. MELODY    [getting closer]  Do you know who we are? LEONA    Say no. THEO    Uh, no?  and - and I don't want to, because that way I can never identify you or even report you for robbing a waffle house! MELODY    [scoffing] Waffle house! HARMONY    We care nothing for your waffles.  THEO    Uh, ok. ALL DALIS    We're having the fruit cup. MELODY    No.  No fruit cup today.  You are coming with us.  Just you three. LEONA    You can't just leave us here.  We might-- [prompting] might--? THEO    Uh, what?  LEONA    We might [prompting] do something?  Ugh! THEO    We might tell [heavy import] THEM. MELODY    [horrified] How do you know about THEM? LEONA    I'm actually impressed. THEO    oh...  Everyone knows about THEM.  But only a select few know how to reach THEM. LEONA    Smoothie. MELODY    [grim]  right.  You will come with us as well.  HARMONY    What about the sleeping one?  Does he know THEM? LEONA    Oh, him?  He doesn't know anyone. MUSIC SCENE 9 SOUND    WALKING, ECHOEY MELODY    Stop! THEO    Can we take off the blindfolds now? MELODY    Harmony!  Take off the blindfolds.  And search them.  We don't want any messages getting to THEM. SOUND    RUSTLING ALL DALIS    [general interjections of annoyance like Hey!  Stop!  Ouch!  Ooh!] HARMONY    Give me your phone.  LEONA    Here. SOUND     ZIP HARMONY    What's this, in your bag?  [confused, examining a camera] It has a lens like a phone, but it's awfully big.  And it doesn't even have a keypad. LEONA    Hmph.  It's an antique.  Keepsake.  I keep meaning to have it mounted on a keychain. HARMONY    It's big for a keychain. LEONA    [exasperated]  I'll never lose my keys.  Besides, I still use the flash... uh - flashlight function sometimes.  See? SOUND    CAMERA SNAPS HARMONY    Oh.  Ok then.  And you. THEO    Be gentle. LEONA    [sarcastic aside] Be careful.  At least she left on the ninja mask.  [up, to Theo] find out what's going on. THEO    Harmony, is it?  A codename, I'm sure, since you and your partner there are clearly too smart to use your real names in front of your victims - I mean in front of civilians. HARMONY    [noncommittal grunt]  Hmph. THEO    All right.  I'm not asking for me, but what do you plan to do with the Baby Dalis?  I worry that something bad is going to happen. HARMONY    Nothing bad.  To them. THEO    That's a lower case "them," right?  Not a THEM them? MELODY    Enough chit-chat!  You probably know why we brought you here-- LEONA    Not a clue. THEO    No. MELODY    We are the Secret Protectorate Aligned to Reduce or Control Leaching of Entertainers. THEO    Leaching? Huh? MELODY    We needed an "L". LEONA    Sparcle? [snort of almost laughter] THEO    Tell me more.  I'm a good listener. MELODY    You don't know it, friend, but there's a celebrity crisis happening every 20 minutes, and no one else is trying to help! THEO    No?  Really? MELODY    That - those three - are proof of the latest perfidy the government has in the works. ALL DALIS    We are? MELODY    [definite] Cloning. THEO    Wow. ALL DALIS    Uh...  DALI 3    [panicked] I need to use the bathroom.  MUSIC SCENE 10  [Whispered conversation] DALI 1    Yes, my disappearance was a publicity stunt, and yes I am the real Baby Dali. LEONA    Heh heh - just like To Tell The Truth. DALI 2    What? LEONA    God I feel old. THEO    And the other two - you and ... her? DALI 2    Professional Dali impersonator.  I was just taking advantage of the vacuum left by her-- SOUND    DOOR OPENS, FEET ENTER DALI 3    [crying and running in] MELODY    Do not worry, Baby Dalis, we are only here to liberate you and facilitate your re-entry into society. LEONA    Like a celebrity dogpound. THEO    Wait! MELODY    What? THEO    Uh-- LEONA    Better make it truly, monumentally good. DALI 2    Way to take the pressure off. THEO    Uh, what if I were to tell you I'm a reporter for the Weekly World Bugle? MELODY    I would be forced to kill you. HARMONY    We're not yet ready to reveal our manifesto to the world. THEO    Ah.  Good thing that would have been a ruse, then, eh? LEONA    We're gonna die. THEO    But you have to ask yourself, then, how DO I know about THEM? Moment of silence MELODY    [cold] I don't have to ask anything. HARMONY    [shocked] Melody!  You know that we can't do that! [cut off] MELODY    Shh!!!  How do I even know that you know about THEM, eh? LEONA    I do not want to die at the hands of bimbos named after the bugaloos. THEO    [ominous but vague]  Do you know about the government connection? MELODY    [shocked] You know? THEO    But it's not who you think it is.  They want us to believe it's this department, or that [hinting] bureau, when ultimately... [trails off suggestively] HARMONY    He does know! THEO    The officials in question might just find themselves a little less able to sleep at night, if they knew that you knew that I know that THEY know just what's behind it all.  MELODY    Do you know the countersign? THEO    Like that incident last month.  [breaking his train] The what? LEONA    [muttered] Bugaloos. THEO    What? MELODY    [suspicious] It almost sounds like you're one of us.  Do you know the countersign? LEONA    [muttered] Benita Bizarre? THEO    Uh... Josie and the Pussycats? LEONA    [exasperated] Damn! MELODY    Welcome brother! LEONA    [impressed] Damn! MUSIC SCENE 11 AMB    DIFFERENT ROOM SOUND    STEPS MELODY    Don't speak yet. SOUND    MUSIC TURNED ON MELODY    It jams any listening device. THEO    I love this song. MELODY    It seemed fitting.  [suddenly brisk]  So.  What do you know about the cloning project? THEO    Uh... nothing specific.  We've had our eye on suspicious activity for quite some time. MELODY    Damn.  I was hoping. THEO    But-- MELODY    What? THEO    Well...  I don't think they can be actual "clones".  Don't they take years to grow?  And Baby Dali only really got famous with her song "Treehouse victim" last year. MELODY    You underestimate the cloning process.  The technology is there. THEO    Oh.  But they're not... perfect copies...? MELODY    That is the trickiest part.  They are clearly mixing DNA. THEO    Clearly? MELODY    Yes.  The squeaky one is probably mixed with that creepy chick from Poultergeist. THEO    Ri-i-ight.  And the other? MELODY    [definite] Morgan Freeman. THEO    Uh, yeah. SOUND    DOOR FLUNG OPEN HARMONY    (breathless) We've found more!  There must have been a breach at the Baby Dali containment center! THEO    Containment Center? MELODY    They had to breed them some place. THEO    Tell me, do you guys see a lot of Elvises? MELODY    How many? THEO    Thousands. MELODY    No, I mean how many Babys have we found? HARMONY    Four more, and another 8 possible sightings. THEO    That's a lot of Dalis. MUSIC SCENE 12 SOUND    DOOR OPENS, SCUFFLE SUDDENLY STOPS SOUND    FEET, DOOR SHUTS THEO    What are you doing? DALI 2    I want to take this all off and get them to let me go!  But they won't let me! LEONA    Naked?  That'll be a photo op. DALI 2    Just the makeup and wig! DALI 1    Never tarnish the illusion. THEO    Don't!  Their belief in this clone thing might be the only thing keeping us all alive. DALI 3    Besides, I can't take it off - I've had surgery. THEO    [creeped out] Oh? DALI 3    For my FACE.  Not down there.  That's probably what started all the rumors. DALI 1    I love the rumors. DALI 3    [starstruck] You do?  Really?  LEONA    Shh! SOUND    SILENCE, DOOR OPENS HARMONY    Get in there! SOUND    SEVERAL PAIRS OF FEET LEONA    More? THEO    Oh, yeah. They've been finding more of them. SOUND    DOOR SLAMS, LOCKS DALI 4    They took me right off the stage! DALI 5     I was on a date. DALI 7    Busking in the subway. DALI 8    [bad asian accent] I Baby Dorry. DALI 6    I was working a party. THEO    And no one tried to stop them from taking you? DALI 6    What could 6-year olds do? THEO    Oh. [gets it] Ohhh. DALI 9    I like your glasses.  Are those Couture? DALI 10    Knockoffs, but they're good aren't they?  I'll give you the url. LEONA    Even if one of them does get naked, I don't think it will stop them.  [up] Haven't you - no I mean you - already done that on stage?  ALL DALIS    I am a SPECTACLE! LEONA    She's done just about everything on stage except light her farts. THEO     That's it! ALL DALIS    We're vegan.  LEONA    Don't look at me. THEO    I don't mean [hinting] lighting gas... LEONA    You lost me. THEO    Have you ever seen the movie Gaslight? MUSIC SCENE 13 THEO    Hey!  You better get in here! SOUND    LOCK UNLOCKING LEONA    One more shot. SOUND    SNAPSHOT SOUND    DOOR OPENS HARMONY    [horrified] What happened?  Where's their hair? MELODY    Is she - uh, that one - dead? THEO    [strange voice] She is dying of captivity. ALL DALIS    [chanting together]  We are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams. MELODY    But she's still talking. THEO    Mechanical convictions. HARMONY    I love that song. MELODY    Brother Theo, what happened? THEO    There is more at work here than you can comprehend.  I like you. LEONA    Straight from Gaslight to Star Trek.  Smooth. MELODY    What? THEO    But I hate you. HARMONY    You're mean! SOUND    SHE GOES RUNNING OFF, CRYING ALL DALIS    [CHANTING ALONG] World-losers and world forsakers, on who the pale moon gleams. THEO    Oh!  Uh-- LEONA    Don't back off. THEO    Right.  [trying to match the Dali tone] We are the Music Makers and We are the Dreamers of Dreams. LEONA    You do realize she didn't write that, don't you? MELODY    [confused] Why are you just speaking it like that, why aren't you singing? THEO    [creepy whisper] Because - we have no melody! MELODY    [disturbed] But-but I'm Melody! THEO    Are you?  Are you even here? MELODY    I - I am!  And I still have the gun - uh... [horrified] My gun?! LEONA    Plan B. SOUND    GUN COCKS LEONA    [commanding] Time to go.  THEO    Ok, we-- LEONA    Quick, before they decide on an encore. MUSIC SCENE 14 CHIEF    Good thing you got them all moving.  LEONA    We got pictures of them both with and without the wigs, and of them leaving to get on a special charter bus. THEO    They painted the name on the side really fast. LEONA    No, that's actually a company that only gives tours to Dali impersonators. THEO    Go figure.  Do they have an Elvis bus too? LEONA    Yeah.  But they get fewer drag performers. CHIEF    [reminiscent] Yeah.  They serve deep fried bananas, and spin a wheel to see which color outfit gets to sit shotgun.  [breaking out] Uh, uh - I mean, I hear they do. LEONA    [quick, changing the subject] Right.  We've got at least four stories out of this. THEO    And something for Larry. LEONA    [annoyed and horrified] What? THEO    He was in on it, too.  [sheepish] at the beginning. CHIEF    Larry?  Larry who? LEONA    From the switchboard. CHIEF    Look kid.  Being nice ain't how news gets made.  It's just a fact o' life. THEO    Well...  If we don't give him something, he might take what he DOES have and go to another paper. LEONA    You want to give him a story? THEO    [weakly] He could have the waffle house kidnapping. LEONA    [long suffering sigh] I guess.  As long as he leaves our names out of it.  You just volunteered to edit it. THEO    Okay. CHIEF    So what else do you have for me? THEO    Mass migration of dalis. LEONA    [snickering] SPARCLE. THEO    The sublimation of and abrogation of self in the gestalt identity of celebrity. LEONA    Seriously? THEO    I can spin it. CHIEF    Nice.  Big words make people believe crap like that.  Whatever it is. THEO    I meant an article on how people try and be like famous people. CHIEF    Keep the big words.  It sounds better. THEO    I'll find some experts. LEONA    [another idea] There's also that thing about whether she is a he.  Theo found out-- THEO    Uh, no. CHIEF    What do you mean? THEO    The real one wouldn't confirm or deny.  LEONA    Even when she kissed you? THEO    Yeah, well... [shrugs]  A Dali is a Dali. CHIEF    You could do something with that, you know.  On the puzzles page.  Get three of them and one fake impersonator.  LEONA    [chuckles] CHIEF    Put pictures of them all in a four box grid and stick some clues in as to which is which.  Run a little contest.  Think about it.  [commanding] In your office.  I have to call someone about flowers. THEO    [thinking back to the wedding thing] Flowers?  For? CHIEF    Truman at the Guardian when he drops dead seeing our headlines. THEO    Ohhh.  Good. LEONA    Come on. CHIEF    Eh.  Maybe I should just send that stripper. SOUND    DOOR SHUTS SOUND    THEY LEAVE - THIS FADES ACROSS THE BULLPEN LEONA    I like the puzzle idea, though we should make it 9-up, like the brady bunch. THEO    Who? LEONA    [angry growl]  Nostalgia.  Look it up. THEO    Who will be the fake impersonator? LEONA    She did say you have a nice face. THEO    NO way! LEONA    I have to take the picture. REPORTER 4    We actually already have all the Dalis we can use. REPORTER 3    No, thanks, but if you have an MJ sighting?  No? REPORTER 2    Anything else?  Photo of the prez stepping into a spaceship? REPORTER 1    Yes, yes I'll ask - can we use anything from Ringo Starr?  He's on the line and-- ALL REPORTERS    Naaaaaaaah. FADE TO END

This episode of Tech Sales Insights features MJ Leslie, Owner & Principal of Chapter 3 Ltd and Larry Irvin, Principal of Black Diamond Revenue Advisors. In the world of SaaS and many other industries, companies are becoming more and more focused on not only acquiring customers but also retaining customers. Hence, the introduction of the Chief Revenue Officer or CRO.MJ and Larry talk about their sales journeys and some key lessons they've learned so far. They share their insights into what a Chief Revenue Officer actually offers and what level of a company actually needs the CRO role. HIGHLIGHTSMJ and Larry talk about their careers and sales journeysWhat is a Chief Revenue Officer anyway?The ideal stage of a company relative to having a CRO QUOTESThe CRO's job in a macro level - MJ: "Anything that falls within that big, wide umbrella can be part of that. Larry and I were chatting about what stage of that makes sense for a company because if you only have five people, that's a pretty small umbrella. But as you grow, just understanding and looking at what departments make sense in the revenue generation versus retainment section define the CRO role."Is it ideal for start-ups to have CRO? - Larry: "You start getting into that, 'alright, we need to have a structure.' You need to have separate disciplines within marketing, sales, within customer success. That consistent look and feel is key. But to early stage, you're creating layers of structure that creates inefficiency when you can least afford inefficiency." Find out more about our guests in the links below:About MJAbout Larry  Send in a voice message to us: https://anchor.fm/salescommunity/message This episode of Tech Sales Insights is brought to you by: Sales Community | https://www.salescommunity.com/DecisionLink | https://www.decisionlink.com/

This episode of the In The Club Podcast by Club Colors features Larry Long Jr., Chief Energy Officer and Founder of LLJR Enterprises, as well as author of Jolt!: Get Zapped into Intentionality: Rediscover and Believe in Your Inner Greatness.Larry shares his energy as he discusses how your dreams, mindset, and attitude come together to realize your success. He also talks about being intentional with your thoughts and actions and how putting people first is at the heart of sales.    Larry was raised thinking he will become somebody someday and, seeing his success today, encourages others to keep dreaming and believe that you have what it takes to achieve your wildest dreams—all while helping others along the way. HIGHLIGHTSA passion for business and the Law of ReciprocityPQV: Perspective, Questions, and VisionA top Salesforce sales influencer and remembering to dreamAlign your state of mind and behaviors and believe that you are somebodyEPIC: Entrepreneurial spirit, Practice, Internal drive, Care and communication   QUOTESLarry: "You better understand your numbers. This is a shark tank but you better understand your numbers, and I don't mean batting averages, stolen bases, RBIs. I mean the income statement, the balance sheet, and the statement of cash flows if you want to have a chance to succeed and thrive in business."Larry: "There is no limit to the heights that you can climb, that you can achieve. Oftentimes, we put a limit on ourselves because maybe we heard someone else say it. Maybe we don't completely believe it. Maybe we're not committed all the way. But I encourage you to wipe that slate clean and realize that you can craft, you can envision where you want your life to be in all aspects."Larry: "You got to get right with yourself. What are your priorities? What are your true priorities, and how do your actions align with those priorities? When you can get an alignment with yourself, you now have an awesome opportunity to get in alignment with other people."Larry: "The question I ask myself, and this comes from Martin Luther King, Jr., he says life's most persistent and urgent question is, what are you doing, the keyword there is doing, to help out others? And I ask myself that every morning and at night."Connect with Larry and get his book by clicking the links below:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/longjr7/Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Jolt-Intentionality-Rediscover-Believe-Greatness/dp/B09YP6C8YM

If you learn these eight principles of sustainable fundraising, your nonprofit will grow to the next level and exceed your expectations. Conversation Highlights {00:33} Introduction to Larry Johnson {07:16} Principal #1 Donors are the drivers {12:11} Principle #2 Begin at the beginning, that is, create a message {19:55} Principle #3 Leadership Leads {26:22} Principle #4 Learn and plan {32:13} Principle #5 Train the trainer {36:32} Principle #6 Divide and grow {40:21} Principle #7 Renew and refresh {43:23} Principle #8 Invest, integrate, and evaluate Remarkable Quotes Larry: We train people on how to build a metaphorical pipeline that brings their donors closer to them emotionally. Larry: Your goal is to be in that navigation seat and then you can help that person navigate their philanthropy. Larry: It's not just a handout, they're investing in you. Larry: You need to create a message. Travis: You must be able to get recurring donors, the best time to do that is within 13 days of first contact. Larry Johnson Bio Larry Johnson, founded The Eight Principles™, believing in the simple, the practical, and the joyful. He is the author of the award-winning book, “The Eight Principles of Sustainable Fundraising,” and has been named to the top 15 fundraising consultants in the US and Canada by the Wall Street Business Network. The Association of Fundraising Professionals named Larry, Outstanding Development Executive of 2010. Larry's thirty-year career spans both program development and capital fundraising. After serving with the nation's leading consultancy, he served four institutions of higher learning as chief advancement officer. He has led successful capital funding efforts which were local, regional, and national in scope with objectives ranging from $650K to $200M. He serves on both nonprofit and corporate boards including, the advisory council of The Carter Center and the Philanthropy of the 39th President of the United States. Larry has coached the staff and volunteers of hundreds of nonprofit organizations in the United States, Canada, and Great Britain. Connect with Larry Johnson https://www.linkedin.com/in/larryjohnsonmegrace/ https://theeightprinciples.com/ Nonprofit Architect Podcast Links Website http://nonprofitarchitect.org Community https://www.facebook.com/groups/NonprofitArchitect Ultimate Podcast Guide https://nonprofitarchitect.org/ultimate-podcast-guide/ Subscribe and Leave a Review https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nonprofit-architect-podcast/id1481292481 Patreon https://www.patreon.com/NonprofitArchitect Watch on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQm8fnR2sHyrmLpV2jKYajA Listen to these other great podcasts from Veterans https://nonprofitarchitect.org/veteran-podcast-network/ Want help getting your podcast started? Visit: https://nonprofitarchitect.org/podcast-production-services/

If you learn these eight principles of sustainable fundraising, your nonprofit will grow to the next level and exceed your expectations. Conversation Highlights {00:33} Introduction to Larry Johnson {07:16} Principal #1 Donors are the drivers {12:11} Principle #2 Begin at the beginning, that is, create a message {19:55} Principle #3 Leadership Leads {26:22} Principle #4 Learn and plan {32:13} Principle #5 Train the trainer {36:32} Principle #6 Divide and grow {40:21} Principle #7 Renew and refresh {43:23} Principle #8 Invest, integrate, and evaluate Remarkable Quotes Larry: We train people on how to build a metaphorical pipeline that brings their donors closer to them emotionally. Larry: Your goal is to be in that navigation seat and then you can help that person navigate their philanthropy. Larry: It's not just a handout, they're investing in you. Larry: You need to create a message. Travis: You must be able to get recurring donors, the best time to do that is within 13 days of first contact. Larry Johnson Bio Larry Johnson, founded The Eight Principles™, believing in the simple, the practical, and the joyful. He is the author of the award-winning book, “The Eight Principles of Sustainable Fundraising,” and has been named to the top 15 fundraising consultants in the US and Canada by the Wall Street Business Network. The Association of Fundraising Professionals named Larry, Outstanding Development Executive of 2010. Larry's thirty-year career spans both program development and capital fundraising. After serving with the nation's leading consultancy, he served four institutions of higher learning as chief advancement officer. He has led successful capital funding efforts which were local, regional, and national in scope with objectives ranging from $650K to $200M. He serves on both nonprofit and corporate boards including, the advisory council of The Carter Center and the Philanthropy of the 39th President of the United States. Larry has coached the staff and volunteers of hundreds of nonprofit organizations in the United States, Canada, and Great Britain. Connect with Larry Johnson https://www.linkedin.com/in/larryjohnsonmegrace/ https://theeightprinciples.com/ Nonprofit Architect Podcast Links Website http://nonprofitarchitect.org Community https://www.facebook.com/groups/NonprofitArchitect Ultimate Podcast Guide https://nonprofitarchitect.org/ultimate-podcast-guide/ Subscribe and Leave a Review https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nonprofit-architect-podcast/id1481292481 Patreon https://www.patreon.com/NonprofitArchitect Watch on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQm8fnR2sHyrmLpV2jKYajA Listen to these other great podcasts from Veterans https://nonprofitarchitect.org/veteran-podcast-network/ Want help getting your podcast started? Visit: https://nonprofitarchitect.org/podcast-production-services/

Welcome to the second season of Conversations with Cohen, where I dive into all things pertaining to law firms.My guest on this episode is Larry Marner of Marner Architecture. His company specializes in designing space for law firms in New York and New Jersey. At the moment, we are seeing law firm occupancy upwards of 50%. Larry shares his insight into law firms and is confident that the office will always be a big part of law firm culture. In fact, last year has been great for many law firms!Larry shares his thoughts on how law firms will work more efficiently with their real estate, and what effects that will have on the various parts of their real estate. We dive deep into how law offices will look as we move forward in the pandemic. If you're a law firm looking for office space, this video is for you! Don't miss out on this information-packed season of Conversations with Cohen. Hit subscribe and let me know your thoughts on this episode.Connect with Larry: You can reach him at https://www.marnerarchitecture.com/

During this episode, Sarah and Larry Nannery share the lessons they have learned during their 10 year Neurodiverse Love relationship. Their motto is "Better Together" and it is clear that they personify this motto. Sarah sought a diagnosis after she became a parent and realized that managing all of her new responsibilities was more then she was prepared for, and at 31 she received a formal ASD diagnosis. She has now taken some of the lessons she has learned on her journey and partnered with Larry to write "What to Say--Successful Communication in Work, Life, and Love with Autism Spectrum Disorder". Throughout their relationship, both Sarah and Larry have worked hard to become a better version of themselves, individually and as a couple,. After hearing a piece of their story, it is clear that that may be one of the most important factors in a successful neurodiverse relationship. They both share great insight about the ways in which they address their social and emotional differences, as well as the ways in which they think about and process their family life and their relationship. Larry shared how he believes that we are all different in some way and we should focus on our unique traits and strengths, so that we can learn who we are and how those traits are presenting in all the relationships we are in. In addition, we had a great discussion about parenting and family life and how important self-care, structure and knowing what the plan is are for Sarah. Several things that were said during the podcast showed the genuine compassion, love and respect that Sarah and Larry have for each other. Sarah shared that when she is on emotional or sensory overload she knows that she can come home and "Larry will take care of her" and those words were such a wonderful expression of the trust and safety that their relationship provides. In addition, when Sarah was talking about the challenges of parenting, Larry stopped and said "Sarah you are a wonderful mother" and although we couldn't see Sarah's face, she probably had a big smile when he said that. This is a part of what makes their neurodiverse love so special. Sarah and Larry share the way in which Neurodiverse Love can thrive and how each partner in the relationship can feel safe to be themselves and be supported and understood. We know you will really enjoy meeting Sarah and Larry:-) You can follow Sarah on Instagram or Twitter @sarahnannery or you can check out her website at sarahnannery.com We also hope you will buy their new book. It provides excellent insight and strategies on how to communicate effectively in all types of relationships. If you would like to join one of the free Neurodiverse Love Peer Support Groups for the neurotypical or autistic partner, you can send us an email at: neurodiverselove4u@gmail.com or send us a DM on Instagram @neurodiverse_love For more information on neurodiverse relationships please check out our website at: neurodiverselove.com If you are a neurodiverse couple or one of the partners in a neurodiverse relationship and would like to be a guest on the podcast, please send us a DM or e-mail. Thanks for being a part of the Neurodiverse Love journey. Please subscribe to the podcast and share this episode with others who you know who might benefit from hearing it. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/neurodiverse-love/message

Cherie inherits a stack of 33 letters, written by her grandfather, who died during the Korean War, and who Cherie's family never talked about. Before receiving the letters, she knew almost nothing about him. She hadn't even seen a picture of him. But the letters unveil who he was and the fateful decisions he made that affected not only his life but still affect her life today. Larry Hood's page on the Korean War Project website. (While talking with Cherie, I misspoke and called it the Korean War Memorial website. It's the Korean War Project. My apologies to the folks there!)Season 1, Episode 4: Crystal's LettersGuest: Cherie Louise TurnerVisit www.MementosPodcast.com to see some photos of the memento in this episode. Follow the show @MementosPodcast on Twitter and Instagram.Follow the Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/mementospodcastFollow Lori at @mortaymortay on Twitter and Instagram. CREDITS:Lori Mortimer – Host, Sound Designer, ProducerCherie Turner – GuestCharles Gustine – Voice ActorGalen Beebe – Story Editor Alyssa Duvak – Social MediaMusic: Micolai by Blue Dot SessionsLooperman: looperman-l-1186967-0179585-piano-melody-654-abelouislooperman-l-2431466-0230476-sunset-piano-melodylooperman-l-4487063-0257366-lofi-piano-really-chilllooperman-l-2392682-0213471-classic-mellow-piano--------------------TRANSCRIPTMementos Episode S1:E4Cherie's Letters[00:00:00]CHERIE: One of the reasons that he was so aggressive about putting himself in danger is because he just wanted to get back home. And that was his fastest way to get back home. And it ended up doing the very thing that made it, this short track, which is that it was super, super dangerous and you're at risk of dying.And that's what happened.LORI: Welcome to Mementos. I'm Lori Mortimer. If you listened to the last episode, Crystal's Hymn, you'll know that it was a story about a grandfather. Today's episode is also about a grandfather, but the two episodes could not be more different. In this episode, my guest is going to tell us about a grandfather who she knew nothing about until just a few years ago.Cherie has been able to bring back to life, in a sense, her grandfather, who died many years ago and who had been lost to the sands of time. And she learned that he made some fateful decisions a long time ago that not only affected him but also still affect her life today.[00:01:30]CHERIE: My name is Cherie Louise Turner. And I'm originally from Goleta, California, which is near Santa Barbara.LORI: Cherie's story starts in 2010, when she got a phone call from her aunt. CHERIE: She informed me that my grandmother had passed, after several bouts of cancer. And she had left me some things in her will. Which I was very surprised about because I really hadn't spoken much to her um, in probably over 20 years. [00:02:00]So I received this stack of 33 letters that my grandfather, Larry Hood, had written to my grandmother while he was in the Army and then when he went off to the Korean War.Before I got these letters -- I got them when I was 40 years old -- I really didn't think much of my grandfather. Or I didn't give him much thought. I had maybe known that he died in a war. I wasn't even ever clear on which war it was.He went into the Army on the 4th of April, 1951, and he died on June 29th, 1952. He wasn't even overseas for but a few months. So by the time I was cognizant of this missing person, he'd been gone for such a long time, and nobody really talked about him because my grandmother had already been married -- remarried -- twice.And so this was my first opportunity to learn anything about him.[00:03:03]LORI: One by one, these letters unveil the pieces of Larry's life story.Most of them are written to Cherie's grandmother Mary and to Cherie's father Gary, who was just little at the time. He was between 4 and 5 years of age. And yes, this family has rhyming names: Larry and Mary, and their son Gary.In the letters, Larry talks about his everyday life in the Army. They start when he was in training camp in California, and then take him to a stop to Japan and then on to the front lines in North Korea.[00:03:30]CHERIE: I don't know how he ended up in the Army. I don't get the sense that he was real gung-ho about it. I think he probably got enlisted. And from all of the letters, all he wanted to do was come back home.LORI: You can tell that Larry was especially focused on getting home sooner rather than later. CHARLES (as LARRY):Dear Mary and Gary,Tomorrow morning at 3 a.m, I leave by ship for Korea. I get 20 percent more pay in Korea and the full G.I. Bil. The way the rotation system is now workin', I will get home twice as fast as I would if I stayed here in Japan.CHERIE: The other thing about these, coming from the Army, is there are just some basic things that you miss. You know, you miss your family. Every single letter, he writes, tell Gary I love him, tell him how much I miss him.LORI: He didn't just miss them, he stayed in communication and supported them. He stayed in communication and supported them. He asked how they were, and he followed up on the things they told him in their letters to him. And he expressed a lot of concern about Mary's well-being.[00:04:47]CHARLES (as LARRY):You say for me to take care of myself. It sounds like you're the one who should take it easy.Your mother wrote me you only weigh a hundred two pounds. So, gal, you better get on the ball and start taking your shots again. Especially now that the windy season is startin'. You're going to blow away if you don't.So honey, write me what you're doin' because sometimes I wonder and worry about you.[00:05:24]LORI: Through the letters, Cherie got a surprise about her grandparents' relationship, which makes Larry's support of Mary even more remarkable. CHERIE: He and my grandmother had been divorced before he went to war. They got married when they were 17 years old. So they were children. And when you look at the dates it seems pretty obvious that they got married because she got pregnant.[00:05:45]But he's just so sweet to her the whole time, and he talks about how she would always be very special to him.CHARLES (as LARRY):You'll always mean a lot more to me than just an ex-wife because we were together and did too much to ever forget. Even if it wasn't for the fact that Gary is part of us both.So, baby doll, take care of yourself, and tell Gary that I never stop thinking of him. And naturally, when I think of him, I also think of you.[00:06:27]LORI: You know, not surprisingly, Cherie has opened and read through these letters many times since she got them. But one time, not that long ago, she found something new when she was trying to put one of the letters back in its envelope.CHERIE: The envelope felt kind of heavy after I took the letter out and I just, I kind of gave it a second thought, but not much. And then I was reading through the letter, and I go to put it back, and it won't go in very well. And I realize that there are two photographs in here.They're the only photos I've ever seen of this man. Which is just kind of miraculous to me.[00:07:00]LORI: Think about that. She'd never even seen a picture of her grandfather before. And when Cherie saw these photos, she was struck by just how young he was. CHERIE: In my mind, he's an old person. But he died when he was 23.LORI: The photos also captured the bleakness of his surroundings and what he was living through while stationed in North Korea.CHERIE: Of course they're black and white, so like, there's no color to them. And you can see it's a very desolate landscape where he is.And you can see hills. Um, there's a lot of rocks. There are no trees whatsoever. And here they are guarding this post.CHARLES (as LARRY):Except for the guard duty, half the night, we don't have hardly anything to do, but every so often we have to go on patrols of the Chinese lines to see where and what they are doing. Goin' on those patrols, I can't say I like too well. As far as I'm concerned, they can stay on their hill, and we'll stay on ours.It gets me that so many fellas have to get hurt and go through so much just to take one of these worthless hills. I just hope I get outta here before too many more months because every week seems like a month itself.[00:08:18]CHERIE: He talks about how they do live in tents, and it snows. You know, they were digging into the snow in the hillside to get themselves into a warmer situation. That was just for insulation. Because it was so freezing cold. He said it would take them about an hour in the morning to put their boots on because everything was frozen.CHARLES (as LARRY):More guys have left here because of pneumonia or frozen hands or feet than those who have gotten wounded or shot. I got frostbite in January, and my knees are still bothering me from the cold that has set in them.I'll be home sometime this summer. I'll have at least 30 days' leave, which I'm going to spend at the beach. The sun will feel so good after havin' spent the winter here.[00:09:13]LORI: After getting frostbite and suffering with the lingering effects, Larry makes a fateful, but consistent, decision.CHARLES (as LARRY):I could have gotten off the front lines because of it, but I would have been moved to a rear area where I would have to stay twice as long.[00:09:33]CHERIE: I, I have a lot of respect for the military and the things that they do. But when you're reading about a single person's existence and their experiences, it also can make you feel like, here was this man who was full of life, and he didn't come back. And it really does make you wonder, was that life worth losing? LORI: The letters are kind of an extended family, treasure trove for Cherie because she learned that other family members were very supportive of Larry while he was overseas. One set of the letters are to Bernice and Ted Boyd. CHERIE: And I can only surmise that Bernice and Ted were my grandmother's parents, so my great-grandparents.I'm just putting this together because he sent a bunch of letters to these people, and it sounds like they took care of my father a lot. And that lets you know how fractured my family was and how little I know about a lot of these people.[00:10:42]CHARLES (as LARRY):Dear Bernice and Ted,Just received your letter today. You're right. Spring is here. Right now I'm sitting in the sun enjoying the sunshine. I sure hope I never spend another winter like this year has been. I'm still having trouble with the cold that had set in my bones. For a while, I even had trouble walking. But they are much better now.I would very much enjoy some cookies from you. They should be wrapped airtight. Wrapped and thin, put into a coffee can, they keep very well. When I get home, I'm going to get you to make some pop overs. I haven't forgotten how good they are or how swell you make 'em.[00:11:29]CHERIE: There is a very last letter in all of this, and it's in a return envelope. And it is a letter from Bernice Boyd that never gets to him because by the time it gets overseas, he's already died. Dear Larry,Yesterday your mother read to me over the phone your letter that you were in the hospital and hurt in the leg and knee.We have all been praying for you during all these months. I have pictured you in our home in chairs around the house with faith that you would be here.We told Gary last night at dinner that you were hurt and in the hospital. Larry, the expression on his face was so sad and so deeply hurt. I told him right away quick that his Daddy would be home soon and that he was getting well. And the expression changed right away to one of happiness. He loves his Daddy. We all love you.God will take care of everything, Larry. Right always wins in the end. I will accept the future as God's will.I have been making preserves to go into those popovers.Relax now, Larry, all you possibly can. And don't worry about anything.Love, BerniceHe really liked popovers. Just assuming that this is the mother of his ex-wife, there was just a very loving situation all the way around.And had he had the opportunity to come back, they would have all still at least had friendly relations. Who's to say how things would have turned out in the end? I can only fantasize about them, being that my father didn't turn out to be the nicest guy or the most responsible person.[00:13:17]LORI: Cherie's father, Gary, the little boy in the letters, was entirely absent from Cherie's life. By choice. CHERIE: My mother got divorced from Gary Hood, uh, about six months after I was born. So I never met him. Uh, he has since passed, so I will never meet him. And my grandmother I love to pieces, but she definitely had her challenges, and she could be a challenging person.And then there's this sort of shining light of a person who ends up getting killed … and so, it's, you know, it's sad. And I hold onto these because he really just felt like such a good part of a history that I didn't even – that I didn't know about. And then I got this gift of getting to know about him.It was just this really, it, argh, it just … it made me really happy to feel like there was this person who had been in the world who I'm related to, who I kinda got to know just through these series of 33 letters that he wrote to people. It brought him to life for me, and nobody else had done that.And the fact that he got to do that? That was really special.[00:14:42]LORI: At first, I was thinking this is where Cherie's story would end. But, you know, something kept nagging at me. And it was something Bernice Boyd said in the letter that was returned to her. She said that Larry had been injured in the leg and the knee. And I wondered if those are the injuries that killed him because he had been well enough to write a letter home to his mother about them. I was curious, so I did a little research. And then I called Cherie to tell her what I found.[00:15:20]LORI: Hey, Cherie.CHERIE: Hey, how's it going?LORI: It's goin' well, thanks! LORI: Um, okay, so I am going to read to you from the Korean War Memorial website.Private first class Lawrence Clark Hood was a member of the 179th infantry regiment, 45th infantry division. He was seriously wounded by the enemy in North Korea on June 16th, 1952, and returned to duty on June 18th, 1952.CHERIE: Oh, wow.LORI: Yeah, yeah, two days. And then he went back.LORI: He was killed in action while fighting the enemy on June 29th, 1952.CHERIE: Wow.So he survived the leg injuries. And then he was killed in action 11 days later.CHERIE: You know, that's really interesting because I just assumed he had died in the hospital. [00:16:06]This just makes so much more sense. It kind of, honestly, it kind of makes me want to cry.You know, the first thing that comes to mind is that … argh … I'm, I'm trying to think of a way of saying this without sounding, I don't know, dramatic or cruel. But, like he, he died fighting. You know, like somehow that just seems, it seems very powerful to me. I mean, in a really awful way, because to die violently is horrible.Um, but somehow it, I, I don't know. It, it just sort of goes with who he was that he was fighting to get home. He, he was putting himself in danger to get back to his family.And what a tough guy, right? Like, he's got frostbite, he's got a leg injury, and it's like, he's still not asking for desk duty.[00:16:58]Like, like I don't really like the word badass, but it's just like, well, that's kind of a badass move. Like just the, just the human spirit of that, right? Like, the human spirit of just wanting something so badly that you're just gonna keep at it until either you die or you get what you want.The fact that he died -- it changed my life. Absolutely. And I think he would have been an amazing father. And that's the saddest part because my father missed out on that. And I missed out on having a great grandfather. [00:17:26]Like, every time I think about him, like, it really gets me welled up. It's the sadness of missing out on what could have been. [00:18:00]LORI: Thank you, Cherie, for sharing the story, the letters, and your newly found grandfather with all of us. He really does sound like a shining light of a young man. Cherie has her own podcast called Strides Forward: Stories of women runners. You can check it out. She's on all the podcast apps. She's got a website. And she's publishing a series right now, um, about nine women who are prepping for the Boston Marathon, which is running in October this year instead of April, because of the pandemic.For this episode, I must give huge thanks and praise to Charles Gustine, who read Larry's letters.Beautiful work, Charles. Thank you so much. Charles also has a podcast called Iconography, which he calls a tour of icons real and imagined. It's a mix of pop culture, history, place. So I would check it out. One of my favorite episodes is the episode on Jaws.Galen Beebe edited the story and really helped me pull all the pieces together.[00:18:58]Thank you to the Pod Prod, secret society. And Skye Pillsbury and Jenna Spinelle for your feedback and suggestions. And as always my main man, Steve.This episode was written, produced, and sound designed by me, Lori Mortimer. And lastly, how you can support this show. If you like Mementos, and I hope you do, anytime you're talking to a friend, mention that you listen to the show and send them to it. See you again in two weeks where we will not hear about a grandfather this time, but we will hear about … birds. See you then!

I’m honored to bring you the thinking of New York Times best-selling author Dr. Larry Dossey, on issues he has championed for nearly 40 years. Larry and I will be discussing a range of topics, such as the nature of consciousness, our inherent connectivity and unity with all other life, and the role suffering plays in helping us elaborate and expand our worldview.   His long career as a physician, researcher, writer and public speaker has given him deep insights into these topics that you won’t want to miss. It’s remarkable how consistently and passionately Larry has been the champion for the idea of a collective, unitary consciousness in the face of an initially skeptical scientific community.    The following is just a taste of Larry’s thought-provoking insights.   Q: How do we access the One Mind?  Larry: You really don’t have to do anything to access the One Mind, if you just turn off your rational mind.   Q: How can suffering help us in our journey toward greater wholeness? Larry: Ernest Hemingway said, “Life breaks everyone. Some people grow stronger at the break points. Other people just continue to be broken.” In my own life, I grew stronger at the break points, and probably without some sort of suffering, some sort of dramatic breakage, I would not have made the transitions in my own life and thinking that I did.    Q: Have we progressed as a society in our understanding and acceptance of the One Mind? Larry: Absolutely. About three-quarters of the medical schools in the United States now have courses in their curriculum on the impact of healing intentions and consciousness-mediated healing.   Q: What has the One Mind been called in various spiritual traditions? Larry: You can trace it back 3,000 years to the Hindu tradition, where it was known as the Akashic records. In Zen, it’s called Satori. In the tradition of Yoga, it’s called Somati. In Sufism it’s known as Fanaa. And in Christianity it’s often referred to as Christ Consciousness.   When asked if there’s one last thing he’d like our listeners to hear, Larry says, “Don’t be so serious about the nature of consciousness and what the future holds. Simply allow your unconscious wisdom to bubble up and you’ll be happier, more creative and healthier.”   Dr. Larry Dossey’s latest book, One Mind: How Our Individual Mind Is Part of a Greater Consciousness and Why It Matters, provides compelling data for the existence and power of a collective consciousness. It stretches us to re-imagine the power of our true selves.  About Dr. Larry DosseyThe author of numerous best-selling books and articles, distinguished physician Dr. Larry Dossey has become an internationally influential advocate of the role of the mind in health and the role of spirituality in healthcare. The impact of his work has been remarkable. Before his book Healing Words was published in 1993, only three U.S. medical schools had courses devoted to exploring the role of spirituality in health; currently, nearly 80 medical schools have instituted such courses, many of which utilize Dr. Dossey's works as textbooks. In his 1989 book Recovering the Soul, he introduced the concept of "nonlocal mind" -- mind unconfined to the brain and body, mind spread infinitely throughout space and time. Since then, "nonlocal mind" has been adopted by many leading scientists as an emerging image of consciousness. Dr. Dossey's ever-deepening explication of nonlocal mind provides a legitimate foundation for the merging of spirit and medicine. The ramifications of such a union are radical and call for no less than the reinvention of medicine...and the way each of us thinks about ourself. Find Larry on Social Media: http://larrydosseymd.com/ (Website) https://twitter.com/larrydosseymd (Twitter) https://www.facebook.com/larrydosseymd/ (Facebook) Larry’s Books: One Mind: How Our Individual Mind Is Part of a Greater Consciousness and Why It Matters Recovering the Soul: A Scientific and Spiritual Search Healing Words: The Power of Prayer and the Practice of Medicine Books Mentioned in the Interview: Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life, by Richard Rohr Love Is Complicated: A True Story of Brokenness and Healing, by Marlena Fiol, to be released summer 2020 About Marlena Fiol, PhDMarlena Fiol, PhD, is a globally recognized author, scholar and speaker. She is a spiritual seeker whose work explores the depths of who we are and what’s possible in our lives. Her significant body of publications on the topic, coupled with her own raw identity-changing experiences, makes her uniquely qualified to write about personal transformational change. She is also a certified tai chi instructor and freelance writer whose most recent work has appeared in numerous literary magazines and newsletters. You can find Marlena in the following places: https://marlenafiol.com Facebook Twitter: @marlenafiol  

"Why on earth are you doing a comedy podcast Larry? You may be funny looking, but..."Well, I'll tell you why, and I'll also give you a heads up about a few topics from our first full episode dropping November 2nd at nerdsandnonsense.com Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/join/nerdsandnonsense)

The school year is about to begin and the EdTech Loop crew is about ready to get back into the studio. Though I considered attempting to convince Danelle to record a new podcast over the Labour Day weekend, I instead recognized that I value our friendship and decided one more Best Of Episode is a more promising and healthy option. So pop in the earbuds, lay back on the beach towel and soak up the sun one more time before the school bell rings and join our “Digital Parenting,” conversation and as always thanks for listening and inspiring!  Danelle Brostrom  3:27  So I turned my phone off so that way it didn't brrrrr in the middle instead of playing video games and just sit on the couch and veg. Why are you always recording Larry Burden  3:35  That will be the intro to the pod...and done. Oops. It is Episode 38 of the TCAPSLoopweekly podcast. My name is Larry Burden and she's convinced Al Bundy was actually a highly enlightened Cyborg. It's Daniel Brostrom.  Danelle Brostrom  4:08  I know the reference this week, Larry. Larry Burden  4:12  Oddly, I had to go farther back. Carl Sagan was actually farther back, but still I had to go pretty far back. So well. How you doing?  Danelle Brostrom  4:22  Okay. It was great  Larry Burden  4:23  doing the Olympics watching. Danelle Brostrom  4:25  Um, a little. We like curling. Larry Burden  4:26  Who doens't like curling. There was a tweet that I ran into on curling or how you watch how somebody watches curling, they had some explicit language, but it was pretty funny. It starts out the first minute, you're like, this is kind of boring. The 10th minute you're going you're like, ooh, he could have curled that stone a little bit better, maybe. The third one was like this highly like after like an hour and a half. You've got like this highly considered opinion on, you know, the tactics of curling. And by the end, you're just completely emotionally invested in it and screaming at the TV "Sweep!, Sweep!" Danelle Brostrom  5:04  accurate.  Larry Burden  5:04  It's pretty funny. curling is your sport, anything else? Danelle Brostrom  5:08  No, just curling. Larry Burden  5:13  high levels of athleticism, and curling. I did the opening ceremonies and I haven't really I haven't, I haven't, dove, dove in. Once you dive into the... with what I've learned is once you dive into the Olympics, you're you're into all the sports. But I haven't I haven't gone there yet, which is a bummer. We watched one curling match. Okay, that was that was quite, that was enough.  Danelle Brostrom  5:36  Close enough enough.  Larry Burden  5:37  I have a feeling sooner or later the figure skating is going to take over my household because I have a lot of girls, Danelle Brostrom  5:43  I do like the figure skating too. That is pretty cool. Larry Burden  5:45  Moving on, it's time, to get into the downward dog position, Your lotus position. clear your mind. It's our moment of Zen. Don't try to waste a lifetime by trying to banish all danger. Just spend a moment now and then to banish fear. Relatively apt, As we dig into the meat of the show, Parenting in the digital age. And I wanted to start by asking this question, we hit this topic, you have your email, do we want to do this? Again? We've kind of done this. I don't think we can do this enough.  Danelle Brostrom  6:26  I know.  Larry Burden  6:26  I really don't i don't think it's going away. I don't think it's gone away. So, why do we keep coming back to this? Danelle Brostrom  6:32  Well, it's really hard to parent, a digital kid, when you've never been a digital kid. You know, I when I grew up,  Larry Burden  6:39  The Wii doesn't count? Danelle Brostrom  6:40  No, the Wii doesn't help. When I grew up. We I mean, we didn't have computers. I mean, we had computers, but nothing, nothing like we do today, until I got into college. And then we were able to use things like the internet for research, you know. Things have changed so much. And they changed so quickly. And our kids know how to do it. And they're on top of it. And they've got ways to get around how we think we've controlled it. So, the more help we can give families and the more we can get families talking about this, I think the better off our kids are going to be. Larry Burden  7:13  Absolutely. So let's talk about this. You and Steffi are doing some presentations, and you dusted off an old Google slideshow. And I was going through it and Oh, wow. This is, you know, we've always talked, I think early on when we're having these discussions we were, finding it hard to find actionable things. Where this is, these are the things that parents, teachers can do. And I was going through the slideshow, and it was like, Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, the first one that hit me was make a plan. And If you want to give us some tips abroad, actually the slide show up, If you want to go through why making a plan is so important, because that I think that's, there's a reason why it's number one. Yeah, no, I think making a plan is important making that plan before you actually give your child that device. This isn't like, you know, if my kid wants a finger laying, I go to the store and I buy one, they give it to her, whatever. This this, this is this is the most powerful computer in the world, and they can have it and be connected to everything. 24/7, so making this plan before you give them that device is really important. So think about things like timing, How old should your kids be? And we talked about that, wait until eighth," pledge and another podcast that some families are choosing to wait until the eighth grade point. And then thinking about like, what kinds of activities are you okay with your kids doing online? What kinds of time limits are you going to set? Can kids use media during homework time? Or is that kind of a know you're 100% focused on homework, nothing else? So trying to come up with this, this plan? What are your non negotiables? What are the things that are definitely unacceptable to you and communicate those with your kids. They have to know, this is the line, you do not cross it. And you can consider using a contract such as the 18 point iPhone contract, which is really, really good. It goes through things like I own your phone, I have the right to look at it anytime I want. Things like that. And then having you and your child sign it. Again, that communication with your kid is key. Definitely a non negotiable in our house is going to be the device free dinners. There's a lot of really great Will Ferrell commercials, where they're all sitting around a table and all the kids are like, I Miss Daddy, I Miss Daddy, too. I miss Daddy the most and they're like all sad. And then all of a sudden, you see that Will Ferrell is actually at the table with them, but he's on his phone. And He's like, like, like, like, like, oh, sorry, just five minutes, like, like, like. So you can see that they've I mean, they're trying to put it in a funny way. But in a lot of our families, you know, those devices are taking over that dinner table. And there's so much conversation and bonding that is missed when people are distracted. So I know that's a non negotiable in our house. And that is in our plan that we've made before we give our child a device. Things like rule breaking, you know, decide what the consequences will be when they break the rules. And then kind of plan ahead. The, your kids are going to do some curious searches, we call them. How are you going to address that? How are you going to address explicit text? How having a plan for what you're going to say what you're going to do? Are they going to lose their device? Are they not? Is it going to be punishment elsewhere. And then just staying connected, you know, the more you can foster your relationship with your kids, the more they're going to come to you when they have problems and run into something and I say when because they're going to run into something they don't know how to handle. That's, that's being a kid. That goes back to the the failure podcast, that mindset, you know, the mistakes they're going to make with the digital device aren't necessarily bad, they're going to happen, it's going to happen. Being prepared for when it does happen, is showing good parenting skills. You know, having that plan is saying, okay, when this does happen, this is how we're going to react and not being surprised by it or taken aback or reacting out of fear. Danelle Brostrom  11:13  Yeah, we can't react out of fear. And we can't say, we can't say I'm never going to give my kid a device, or I'm never going to let them connect to the internet. Because that's not realistic, you have to come from a place of, kind of, understanding and recognizing and setting them up in a safe way. So that way when they fail, you're kind of there to help them. Catch them.  Larry Burden  11:33  You mentioned it earlier is the modeling.  Yeah,  Don't be Will Ferrell. And I think we get caught in that a lot. That is...with making a plan, modeling, good digital citizenship or behavior with your device or self control is so important. You know, getting back to the mindfulness thing, we talked about these topics, all these topics, and they all kind of dovetail together into being good stewards of digital, our digital lives. And then modeling, stewardship and good behavior with those devices. And it's not a, If you, if you allow yourself to live your life on your device, your device, and the people that create apps for your device will be more than happy to allow you to do that, they're not going to say, Oh, you really shouldn't be using my app. So it really is up to you to make the decision. And as an adult, you're much more capable, you should be much more capable of making that decision, than your, your students, your kids. So It's really, you know, very, very important for you to do that modeling so that when your kid gets in that situation, then go, this is the right way to interact with my device. Being up, out in front of it, so that they know what correct usage looks like.  Danelle Brostrom  13:04  Yeah, they're always watc hing us. And that's scary. But yeah, the whole idea of modeling. And I worry a lot about plugged-in parents. That's what, that's what Common Sense Media calls it. They did a great research project a couple years ago called plugged-in parents and some of the statistics that came from that. Things like parents spend more than nine hours a day with their screens. But 78% of parents believe they're good role models for their children. So we don't see how much time we spend on our screens. And one of the, so my husband I last night and doing some research for this, I made him go on his phone, and you can look and see. It's under "Settings," and then your "battery life." And you can see what your battery life has been spent on in the last 24 hours, in the last seven days. And I was like, look at this. Do you see how much time you spent on Twitter? He's like, Oh, That's not right. Like it is right? That is, that is right.  Larry Burden  14:06  Trust me. It's right.  Danelle Brostrom  14:07  It is right. So just, but that whole idea of being that, that, that model for balance and mindfulness and being with the people who you're with, but, but it's also it's you need to know, like, if we just go with, Oh, I'm fine, I think I'm fine. No, you need to see those hard numbers and see how long you're on Twitter and how long you're on Facebook. So you can say, Whoa, that is almost a full day of my life that I spend. No I didn't. But I didn't I swear. It's embarrassing. But, But you need to have, you need to see it to be able to recognize how much time we're spending, doing things like that  Larry Burden  14:48  Self reflection is a good thing.  Danelle Brostrom  14:50  Self reflection. That's what we call it. But you know, when when 41% of our teens and our kids are feeling that our, that their parents are distracted, their parents aren't there with them, when they're on their device, I think that's a problem. Larry Burden  15:04  Well, they'll find somebody to parent them, Danelle Brostrom  15:07  The device will parent them and media will parent them. Larry Burden  15:09  You're You're we were talking about the the wait until eighth pledge. And I think that's, I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't know...You were definitely swimming against the stream with that. You see a lot of the lot of the the iPads with with the with the babies with the kids with the, If it's not their phone, It's the parents phone. If it's not their iPad, It's their parents iPad. You know, allowing the device to be the parent, because we, we believe that we're very, very busy. And we're doing these things. And sometimes it's easier just to do that. That's another that's another role model. That's another modeling situation that you gotta gotta catch yourself, even though it is it is very easy. You hand a child an iPad and your, your parenting job is done. It'll come back later. But at that moment, it's you know, that situation is taken care of  Danelle Brostrom  16:13  Yeah but, as a parent, you have to think of the whole picture, like there are definitely times in Meijer where my kids are throwing stuff into the cart and messing with each other. And I'm like, here, you play Daniel Tiger, and here you read a book on the phone, just just, we just have to get through Meijer or, you know, we get home and I'm trying to make dinner and do all the things you need to do. And they're fighting, like here guys, go sit and watch Phineas and Ferb, I'm going to go in the kitchen and do dinner. Like, there are definitely times when that happens as a parent, that's just life. But there's also, we've made choices about what kinds of apps and games and TV shows we allow. And then we make choices on the amount of time, which is a lot smaller than it could be. Larry Burden  16:52  And if you have that plan beforehand, it's going to be a lot easier to make appropriate decisions. So when you do allow for digital device usage, because you have a plan, you're not just giving them the world. At that point in time. You're giving them what you feel as a parent is the appropriate amount of the world. So that, you know, you understand the sandbox that they're playing in.  Danelle Brostrom  17:18  For sure, for sure. That and that's another thing that we tell parents is to get, get in that sandbox, you know. Do, do random spot checks of their phone and kind of see, see what what's on there. Make sure that you're the filter for downloading apps, you know, they don't get to just download any apps without you. But get in there. And if they want to download Instagram, you get on Instagram first and see what you think about it and see, see how easy it is to get into trouble or how hard it is and, and then you decide as a parent, whether you want them to have that on their device or not. And, you know, if there's a new video game that they want to play, you know, media has really changed I think about, and like the 1950s, when everyone would kind of gather together around the tiny little TV and you would have conversations, like media was that shared experience. And most living rooms now everybody's kind of on their own device, and nobody's really doing that interacting. So getting in that game yourself. So your kids want to play the video game, pick up the controller and play with them and see, see, see what that just try to recreate that shared experience and be in the game with them and know that they're going to move. You know, if they're on, they're not on Facebook, because we're on Facebook, but if they are on Facebook, it's because they have a nice, perfect version of themselves on Facebook for you, and family. But they're actually on Instagram. So you moved to Instagram, and then they moved to Snapchat. So you move to Snapchat. Like you need to follow and keep up with them, which is a full time job in itself, but you need to do as best that you can do to stay in the game with them.  Larry Burden  18:54  And when you do see, your parenting radar goes off because you see a post that they have, or a comment that they have that isn't appropriate, or it doesn't seem quite right. It is then thier, they will fight you on this. But it is your responsibility and your prerogative to say you need to delete this. This is not appropriate and isn't is not representative of, of you as a person and will probably get you in some level of trouble down the road. But really it is your call. As a parent thing, going back to what you were said, you said about, It's your device, you paid for it. And even beyond that, you know, throwing out the, "I paid for it," you know, saying is if you saw your child doing something inappropriate outside of their digital life, you would call them out for it and there would be, you know, repercussions or a conversation. The same thing should should hold for their digital lives as well. So when you do see something, It's a great, it's a great teachable moment. Danelle Brostrom  20:00  For sure.  Larry Burden  20:01  You know, and those are in there, their digital life is not going to be stopping anytime soon. So it's just as important to call those moments out. If, If Little Johnny punches little Jill in the face, you're going to, obviously, there's going to be repercussions there. If little Jill snapchats inappropriate comments to little Johnny, the same holds true. There's damage done. We need to be able to look at those as equal situations and you know, treat them the same because they are the effects, you know, student you know, our kids very similarly. Danelle Brostrom  20:40  So we need to remember to be having those conversations with our kids that the internet is loud, and the internet is permanent. So everything that you do, like I can only work hands, all the mistakes that we made weren't videoed, they weren't out for everyone to see. We were able to fail and make those mistakes and kind of be sheltered. But it's not that way anymore, their digital footprint is out there and it's not going away. So those inappropriate comments that they do make, could very well follow them and could affect them in the future in and jobs, and colleges, and the ramifications are just ridiculously crazy for our kids. Larry Burden  21:17  And even there, there frame of reference is considerably smaller, you're telling them that they're going to, their text, or their Snapchat is going to affect their college career, it's probably gonna go right over their head, because I'm not really thinking about it. But letting them know that, that Snapchat was screenshot and though it was screenshot by a friend. You have a, you have a, you know, a bad day with that friend, and suddenly that screenshot is shared everywhere. And that's, you know, that's affecting them in the now and you will probably get there is much more likely to get their attention even though you're looking as a as a parent, you know, three, four or five 6, 10 years down the road. That's not where their field of vision is. So you, they might miss that point. It's not saying that that's not the important point. But whether or not they're going to be hearing that point. Eh, might not be close enough to home. Danelle Brostrom  22:19  Yep. And that's okay. And one of the things that we definitely advocate for are short, repeated conversations, your kids need your guidance. They might not seem like they ever want your guidance, but just that's okay. Just keep keep hitting them with that, you know, they might not be listening now. But it might come back later. And we talked about some different conversation ideas like talking with kids about what does it mean, when your friend doesn't answer right away? Because the kids think, Oh, my gosh, she didn't answer my text, she must hate me. And they go into these little spirals. But maybe she's out playing basketball with her dad, like it's okay that she doesn't answer right away. And the whole idea that behind every online interaction, there's a real person. We talked before about how tech companies use like, some streaks to get you addicted, I think it's important for kids to have that knowledge. How the media reinforces gender stereotypes, impact versus intent with some of the language that happens online. Even just finding examples of kind and unkind comments, you can go on any social media site and see that and talking with your kids about that kind of stuff. We just need to continue to have these conversations. And one of the resources that we share with families is the screenagers website, they have something called Tech Talk Tuesdays, and every single Tuesday, they email you different conversation topics that you can have with your kids at the dinner table. And it's amazing, because I never, I mean, this list is awesome. But I never, I never think about it in the moment. But then on Tuesday, I get that email and I'm like, Oh, okay. Tonight, we're going to talk about these six topics. And I've got three conversation starters. And it's, it's a perfect reminder, and it's a perfect shell of what I should be doing. Larry Burden  23:57  When we're going through this list. And you're you're mentioning resources, my thought was, this is not just for nerds.  Danelle Brostrom  24:15  Do you think thsi is just for nerds Larry? You are. I am!  Larry Burden  24:21  No, but, you know, I think a lot of times, you might think that, you know, doing these deep digital dives, that going to Common Sense Media, going to, what was the last one that you. Danelle Brostrom  24:36  The Screenagers Tech Talk Tuesday. Larry Burden  24:37  Tech Talk Tuesday, although I'm not, you know, that's not really my bag, you know, I'm not a I'm not a digital person, even though you're on your phone, checking Twitter, you know, 10-15 hours a day. Everybody is, everybody is a nerd now, certainly your kids, you know, the definition may have changed a little bit or a concept of it. We have to recognize that, that even though you're not coding, You are living a digital life. Everybody is living, living a digital life. So we have to be prepared for that. And we weren't taught in school, we weren't given the tools. You know, as parents, we were not given the tools, it wasn't part of our growing up process. You know, a lot of that a lot of the common sense stuff, m ost of the common sense stuff we received, just through growing up that was part of the process is kind of baked in the digital stuff was not. So we do need to kind of kind of backfill those resources, and it isn't going to necessarily be an, you know, obvious, because the playing fields changed. So we kind of have to relearn the rules or learn new rules. And check out those resources, even though it might not be your bag is probably a really wise thing to do.  Danelle Brostrom  26:00  For sure. Common Sense Media is one of my favorites. I love that. So, So ideally you should be having these conversations with. But with other parents, you should be talking to the parents of the kids in the houses where your your kid spends time. You know, my kid always has the best, my kid has the best friend, she spends time over there, I should be talking to her mom about media roles in their house. And we should just be having that conversation with the parents that are around us. But if we can't, or we don't feel like we have a parent group around us Common Sense, Media is great for that. Because there's a whole entire section on parent concerns. There's a whole entire section on parenting advice blog, so you can go on and you can get advice for how to deal with curious searches, or when to get your kid a cell phone or one the other day, it was just different things you can do to your own phone to help you be more in the moment. And I mean, there's the reviews and the ratings. And those are amazing, because you can go on and find reviews and ratings for any book, movie games, apps, any of that stuff, but the whole parenting section that you can join this online community and kind of lurk and see what's going on. And that you can have this group of knowledgeable parents around you as you go into the media digital battlefield. That's what it feels like sometimes, but it's just it's nice to have Common Sense Media in your bag. Larry Burden  27:21  I think sometimes our kids think it's a battlefield. Danelle Brostrom  27:22  It is a battlefield Larry Burden  27:25  Give them helmets. Go on out there, get into the trenches! Danelle Brostrom  27:28  It is.  Larry Burden  27:29  So You know, when I was thinking about this earlier, I thought less is more. But it's more better than none. I'm saying that as far as you know, less screen time is better, You know, but is more better than not isolating them from?  Danelle Brostrom  27:50  You can't isolate them from.  Larry Burden  27:52  I think that's what I was getting to. That ship has sailed.  Danelle Brostrom  27:56  Yeah.  Larry Burden  27:56  So at some point in time, they're going to live in the digital world. Unknown Speaker  28:02  Larry, I saw a statistic yesterday, from a research paper that 98% of our kids ages two and over have access to a device Larry Burden  28:11  ages 2, 2 and over Danelle Brostrom  28:14  They can barely talk but they have access to a device. That's sailed.  Larry Burden  28:18  Yeah. So you can't, do the ostrich you put your head in the sand. Danelle Brostrom  28:24  I want to. Larry Burden  28:26  and say this is going away? It's not. You can say that we don't live that type of lifestyle. You probably do. So, and your kids certainly are. So educate yourself. Yeah, make sure that you're educated and that you have, I loved what you said about you know, talk about this with your friends, with your fellow parents, it doesn't necessarily have to be doing a bunch of research online. You know, find your peers and talk with them about it. I think that's a great idea. Danelle Brostrom  28:58  Yeah. Because you can guarantee that they have the same concerns and the same frustrations and the same, "nobody knows what they're doing." That's like, that's like the secret of parenting that I found out recently. Nobody knows what they're doing. We're all just trying to figure it out as we go. But if I listened to like, what you know, and what you know, and what you know, and what, you know, I can kind of put it all together and, okay, I feel a little bit better, you know. Larry Burden  29:17  And you know, we when we talk about our own social media environments, we tend not to Facebook, Twitter, whatever might be a great resource. Or Instagram might be a great resource for asking those questions. Except we don't, we don't we don't we don't actually you tend to use that we tend to paint paint a pretty picture of our lives, Instead of asking the tough questions, that those spaces might actually be useful, that. Though I would argue that sometimes those spaces don't lead to the conversations you'd like to have on those topics. Danelle Brostrom  29:50  Now have it in person, have it around the coffee table? Just be with people?  Larry Burden  29:56  Absolutely. So what else you got? Danelle Brostrom  29:57  What else I got.   Larry Burden  29:57  There's a lot of slides. Danelle Brostrom  30:00  There's a lot of really good information on here. And I would like to link this up, but like, okay, so we talked before that I'm a nerd. And yes, I am a nerd. But there's a bunch of really, really good books out right now that I would recommend, "The Art of Screen Time," how your family can balance digital media and real life, "Unselfie," why empathetic kids succeed in an all about me world, "Irresistible." We talked about that before the rise of addictive technology and the business of keeping us hooked. "Social Media Wellness," helping teens and tweens thrive in an unbalanced digital world. And then you know, we, we've talked about it sometimes on the Loop weekly podcast. So keeping in tune with what we're doing. And then the Common Sense Media and the Screenagers website, Those are my, my, if you want to branch out and do other reading, That's where I would recommend going to. Larry Burden  30:48  Reading?  Danelle Brostrom  30:49  Reading. I read so many books. Yeah, Larry Burden  30:52  that's a good thing.  Danelle Brostrom  30:52  It's a good thing.  Larry Burden  30:53  All right, anything else, or we're gonna be over. This conversation could go on much longer. I don't think we got to a quarter of the slides.  Danelle Brostrom  31:03  Are you saying I have too many slides? Larry Burden  31:04  So again, going back to the email earlier, when you asked, "have we beaten this to death?"  No, no, there'll be a no! we could do this every week. And I don't think it'd be enough to be honest. But I am cutting you off. So Tech Tool of the Week,  Danelle Brostrom  31:24  Tech Tool of the Week, I want to share with you this really cool thing that my daughter got from the Public Library. I know some of our secondary schools at TCAPS and a couple of elementary schools have have these in their library, too. So this is called a Play Away. She's currently listening to Sarah Penny Packers novel called, "Packs." And This is the entire novel on this little device. So she plugs headphones into it. And she starts it and she can start and stop, she can play, She can change the speed of the reading, which I really like that kids that want to listen to a little faster, a little slower can have it. But what I like about this is it offers, it offers our kids access to novels that maybe they couldn't read themselves. We know that, that's why we give kids books on tape. But these are really, really cool. They're really tiny, they can fit in the pocket. She's listening to them in the car, this is the only way I can get her to do chores. because she'll put it on while she's doing things around the house. And my kid's a big reader, she walks into walls, let's be honest, she holds her book up and she walks into walls. Well, now she's listening. So she doesn't walk into walls all the time. So, we love Play Aways. But they have these for adults too. And I just think this is a really cool way to like I said, I'm a big reader, but I don't always have time to sit and physically read books, Play Aways are great for that. They're awesome. They have like I said they haven't for adults, but on the Public Library has quite a big selection. And our secondary schools have a selection as well. So... Larry Burden  32:51  Little updates, tutorials and updates. Actually, I haven't checked the tutorial situation. So I don't know if anybody's put anything on there. Wanted to let you know, we recorded a "Gamification" pod with the TechNollerGist, yesterday that was a lot of fun. Was in Traverse Heights last week and did a fun actually Danielle was there, did a fun Maker Space Launch Pad little video that's that's posted. If you want to get a maker space going and you're wondering, what does it look like? That's a it's a nice little one minute video to kind of give you a brief, brief glimpse. They haven't got the Tech Tool a playlist up yet, but still want to do that. So all your tech tools of the week will be in one spot. And I wanted to bring up something that maybe isn't tech focused, but I thought was really important. East Middle School did a documentary on opioid use. And it is, it's a hard watch. And it was put together by the middle school students. It was the digital media class over at East Middle School. And I highly advise any parent to to watch it and sit down with their kids and watch. It's about 15 minutes long. But we'll have the link to that in the show notes, show notes. It's you know, digital citizenship and digital literacy is very important. This is kind of another side that's as far as parenting goes. It's kind of an ugly truth that I think a lot of times we want to avoid, But it is a problem. So I highly recommend watching that. Danelle Brostrom  34:26  What class Larry did you say did that? Larry Burden  34:28  It's the digital media class. Danelle Brostrom  34:29  Awesome. They were trying to make...  TrojanTV  and community or something like that.  Larry Burden  34:34  Yeah, So I want to make the segue. Our Superintendent spoke about this at last night's board meeting, and he attempted to make a positive segue out of it. And it didn't work so I'm not even gonna try. So I'm just gonna say Follow us on Facebook and Twitter @TCAPSLoop Danelle Brostrom  34:54  @brostromda  Larry Burden  34:56  Check out the TCAPSloop blog at tcapsloop.tcaps.net. Subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud and the Google Play Store, leave a review. We love the feedback. Any advice that you have that you might want to share? Feel free to leave that to. So we'd love to have a conversation about this. What are you doing with your kids to help them deal with thier digital lives. Thanks for listening and inspiring. Danelle Brostrom  35:27  That was good. Larry Burden  35:28  That was good. 

We are back for Part 2 of our Financial Wellness Series, and today we are diving into the specifics of practice ownership. Everything from how to find a practice, what to look for and how to get the money to buy in is on the table today as Stith Keiser rejoins us and gives us some tips on how to be successful in ownership. Stith believes in finding your ‘why’ in order to hold onto your passion and really make it as a lasting practice owner. In addition, he explains the importance of understanding need versus demand, why you need to like more than medicine to be an owner, and why you should be looking at your loan as an accountability tool. There’s always lots of options to talk yourself out of a big decision, but if you are ready to put in the work and make your dream of ownership a reality, it can be accomplished with the help of the right lender. First Financial Bank is a premium partner of the veterinary field and Larry Alexander also joins us on today's episode to get down to the nitty-gritty about what it takes financially to make your own ownership dreams come true. Larry is highlighting why First Financial Bank chooses to hire representatives from the veterinary field and not just bankers, reasons FFB values networking and peer to peer conversation in order to make businesses thrive, and how you can help them understand your needs to be successful in the short and long term. Once you are able to understand your own skill set and how it can be best leveraged to make the industry better, you may be ready to see the business from the other side and step into an ownership position. By finding a lender without judgment, like First Financial Bank, and setting yourself up with the knowledge provided by someone such as Stith, you can be sure that you are stepping into this new role with your best foot forward. Have you thought about taking the plunge and buying into or starting your own practice? Share what most excites and worries you about the perspective in the comments on the episode page.   In This Episode How to have the hard conversation when you decide to buy a practice Finding a lending partner that is right for you and holds the same values Analyzing how much cash in the bank you really need to buy a hospital What to expect from the first thirty days after taking on an ownership role Creating a custom business solution with three main key players for success   Quotes “It’s start with your ‘why’ as a veterinarian and your ‘why’ as an owner. Because we are just wasting our time worrying about location or financing if we don’t know what it is we want to do as practice owners.” (2:25) - Stith “Ownership is not just medicine, you don't buy a practice to buy a job.” (5:16) - Stith “As a lender, what we are trying to do is really just learn more about everyone's situation. Because I think every situation is unique.” (13:48) - Larry “You are not alone, whatever you think might be your struggle or your hurdle, I guarantee someone else has been there.” (16:40) - Larry “With our service model and the experience we have on our team drawing from the industry, not from a banking background, I think we are able to offer a local service and that local feel that I believe vets try and treat their patients and clients with.” (21:28) - Larry “My ‘why’ is helping whoever I am working with achieve their ‘why’.” (32:28) - Stith   Links First Financial Bank Website Blue Heron Consulting Website   Find the full show notes here  Keep up with everything Podcast A Vet Follow Podcast A Vet on Facebook | Twitter | Instagram Join our free community of dedicated vet professionals looking to improve their practices and lives in our free Facebook community! We'd love it (and you) if you would take 1 minute and leave us a review on iTunes!

Andrea Zoellner Andrea Zoellner is passionate about making the web more accessible and usable. With clear UX copywriting and a single-minded focus on the user, she helps people succeed online. Andrea and I talked about: her passion for making the web more accessible her path to UX copywriting via communications and journalism her definition of UX copywriting: tiny bits of copy that help people complete a flow how her journalism background helps her anticipate users' needs the expansion of the term "copywriting" from marketing and advertising to UX how common it is for writers now to do be called upon to do both marketing and UX copy supporting your target customer with the information that they need to accomplish their goals the balance between being generous with your content and paying attention to the need to get marketing results from it how to measure the ROI of content, and the importance of tracking and measuring content engagement and performance the importance of content in achieving SEO goals the value of writing to connect with your customers and to answer their questions using tools like A/B testing and other research methods to guide your content creation how to track content success in both flow-oriented UX task writing as well as how-to content how she uses Google Analytics to track the validity of her marketing copy hypotheses (and how she's always surprised by the info) the value of in-person interactions to drive idea generation and to identify sources of friction the differences between micro copy and macro copy, and how both can/should impel the reader/user forward how difficult UX copywriting can be, the challenge of being succinct, the need to be accurate and meaningful how to make my websites more accessible to people and being understood by the largest audience possible the importance of accessibility in both writing and design Andrea's Bio Andrea is a Content Creator at SiteGround and the lead organizer for WordCamp Montreal. She trained as a broadcast journalist and worked in corporate communications before trading it for a career in tech. Now, she uses her experience as a writer to improve how people engage with information online, whether it's through blogging, editing microcopy, or developing brand messaging. When she's not at home in Montreal, Canada, she's sampling the digital nomad life and documenting her adventures on her travel blog capsulesuitcase.com. Video Here's the video version of our conversation: https://youtu.be/WY3DfCzMvNQ Transcript Larry: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Episode Number 34 of the Content Strategy Interviews Podcast. I'm really happy today to have with us Andrea Zoellner. Andrea is a content creator at SiteGround, the web hosting company, but she's done a lot more than that. Let me have Andrea tell you a little bit more about her background and what she's up to today. Andrea: Hi, Larry, and thanks so much for having me on the podcast. Andrea: Yes, you're right. I am a content creator at SiteGround, but before that, I was on the marketing team at Automattic, so I've been in the WordPress space for a couple of years now. One of the things that I'm most passionate about is making the Web more accessible for people through language. Andrea: Before that, I was working in communications in the nonprofit sector and in the corporate sector, as well as working in journalism before that, which is what I studied in college. But yeah, I would say that words are really my business. Larry: Nice. Like I said, this is the thirty-fourth interview I've done, and everybody has a different pathway in and yours is unique, but there's a few common threads, but I think that journalism is a very typical one. Larry: You've been writing and reporting and sharing information for a long time. One thing that, when I hear that ... I think I have you pegged in my head as a UX copywriter.

Andrea Zoellner Andrea Zoellner is passionate about making the web more accessible and usable. With clear UX copywriting and a single-minded focus on the user, she helps people succeed online. Andrea and I talked about: her passion for making the web more accessible her path to UX copywriting via communications and journalism her definition of UX copywriting: tiny bits of copy that help people complete a flow how her journalism background helps her anticipate users' needs the expansion of the term "copywriting" from marketing and advertising to UX how common it is for writers now to do be called upon to do both marketing and UX copy supporting your target customer with the information that they need to accomplish their goals the balance between being generous with your content and paying attention to the need to get marketing results from it how to measure the ROI of content, and the importance of tracking and measuring content engagement and performance the importance of content in achieving SEO goals the value of writing to connect with your customers and to answer their questions using tools like A/B testing and other research methods to guide your content creation how to track content success in both flow-oriented UX task writing as well as how-to content how she uses Google Analytics to track the validity of her marketing copy hypotheses (and how she's always surprised by the info) the value of in-person interactions to drive idea generation and to identify sources of friction the differences between micro copy and macro copy, and how both can/should impel the reader/user forward how difficult UX copywriting can be, the challenge of being succinct, the need to be accurate and meaningful how to make my websites more accessible to people and being understood by the largest audience possible the importance of accessibility in both writing and design Andrea's Bio Andrea is a Content Creator at SiteGround and the lead organizer for WordCamp Montreal. She trained as a broadcast journalist and worked in corporate communications before trading it for a career in tech. Now, she uses her experience as a writer to improve how people engage with information online, whether it’s through blogging, editing microcopy, or developing brand messaging. When she’s not at home in Montreal, Canada, she’s sampling the digital nomad life and documenting her adventures on her travel blog capsulesuitcase.com. Video Here's the video version of our conversation: https://youtu.be/WY3DfCzMvNQ Transcript Larry: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Episode Number 34 of the Content Strategy Interviews Podcast. I'm really happy today to have with us Andrea Zoellner. Andrea is a content creator at SiteGround, the web hosting company, but she's done a lot more than that. Let me have Andrea tell you a little bit more about her background and what she's up to today. Andrea: Hi, Larry, and thanks so much for having me on the podcast. Andrea: Yes, you're right. I am a content creator at SiteGround, but before that, I was on the marketing team at Automattic, so I've been in the WordPress space for a couple of years now. One of the things that I'm most passionate about is making the Web more accessible for people through language. Andrea: Before that, I was working in communications in the nonprofit sector and in the corporate sector, as well as working in journalism before that, which is what I studied in college. But yeah, I would say that words are really my business. Larry: Nice. Like I said, this is the thirty-fourth interview I've done, and everybody has a different pathway in and yours is unique, but there's a few common threads, but I think that journalism is a very typical one. Larry: You've been writing and reporting and sharing information for a long time. One thing that, when I hear that ... I think I have you pegged in my head as a UX copywriter.

Westwin published a fantastic data set on Chinese consumer cross-border purchasing behavior including 15 pages of travel specific data. We speak to Larry You of Westin to step through this report providing insight into an important growth areas for the global travel industry.

NEWS [21:03] Airliners And F-15s Involved In Bizarre Encounter With Mystery Aircraft Over Oregon [30:52] American Airlines #AA1498 was damaged by birdstrike on approach to runway to Miami International [37:00] Air France indignant after cabin crew held in Argentina FEEDBACK [41:28] Steve - Total Electrical Failure at NIGHT - Low time pilot - POV Flying [53:30] Ian - Flew ACME to Seattle & Museum of Flight Photos! [58:11] Larry - You can (almost) always Go Around [1:01:33] Bill - City in the Sky on Netflix [1:02:16] Liz - Interesting use of drones here [1:06:49] Frik - APG @ FL320 [1:10:06] Plane Tale for APG 299 - The Charger [1:30:07] Stefan - Crashing a 727... for Science [1:33:09] Jay - Moving Forward toward ATPL [1:53:38] Pi - Audio Feedback [2:02:03] Captain Troy - Polarized Sunglass Lenses [2:14:54] Chris Dean - Great EFB News! [2:21:45] Larry - Too close to home! [2:28:18] Willem-Jan - Feedback regarding Fokker in the last Plane Tails [2:36:19] Bloopers! VIDEO Audible.com Trial Membership Offer - Get your free audio book today! Give me your review in iTunes! I'm "airlinepilotguy" on Facebook, and "airlinepilotguy" on Twitter. feedback@airlinepilotguy.com airlinepilotguy.com ATC audio from http://LiveATC.net Intro/Outro music by Tim Brown, BrownHouseMedia, iStockphoto.com Copyright © AirlinePilotGuy 2017, All Rights Reserved Airline Pilot Guy Show by Jeff Nielsen is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.

Summary:The lads hang around in the Doctor's waiting room reading old magazines, avoiding that one person who can't stop coughing, and discuss some of their experiences with medical professionals. ***Countdown to Episode 100 is in full swing! Don't forget to call and leave us a message swearing up shit storm! Calls will be aired on Episode 100. Here's the number: 985-265-7726*** In the Studio: Dan Ken Critter Jess Cocktail du Jour: Painkiller - 2 oz. Rum - 4 oz. Pineapple Juice - 1 oz. Orange Juice - 1 oz. Cream of Coconut - Nutmeg Add all ingredients to shaker with ice and shake the shit out of it. Strain into a hurricane glass or snifter, or whatever the hell you want. Hollowed out monkey skull...sure. You could use that too. Garnish with freshly grated nutmeg or nutmeg from a spice jar. Both work, but don't skip this! It's key to the flavor. Add pineapple wedge to really make it look all nice and shit. Quote du Jour: Julia - The main thing I would like to add is that on HBO. You can say fuck. And that is a very tempting arena. Larry - You throw in a fuck, you double your laughs. Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Larry David - Curb Your Enthusiasm Charity: Wildlife Conservation Network: www.wildnet.org/ Links: Facebook – www.facebook.com/wympodcast Twitter – twitter.com/wymshow – @wymshow iTunes – itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/watch…d1065059804?mt=2 Sound Cloud –@watchyourmouthpodcast Stitcher – www.stitcher.com/podcast/watch-your-mouth-podcast Spreaker – www.spreaker.com/show/watch-your-mouth-podcast Merchandise – www.cafepress.com/wymmerch

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: Interview with Hilary DeCesare [music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT and we're back with another interview and a series of interviews that we've had with just tremendous women who have started technology companies. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi, Lucy, it is really great to be here. A lot of people ask what does w3w3 Business Stock radio do. Well we've been around for 14 years. So that was way back in the early days and we have partners like NCWIT certainly one of our most popular and most important to us. I must say that we're extremely proud to be able to help promote young women in technology. Lucy: Well we've got another great interview today as I've said. It's with Hillary DeCesare, who is the founder of Everloop which we're going to find out in a minute. It is just a terrific company for kids. So she is a digital parenting expert and a mother herself. She recognized the unmet need of a safe environment for children to share, to talk, to chat on the Internet. She came up with the idea of Everloop, an idea around privacy protection and mentoring technologies to ensure the safety of youngsters. This is a very comforting thought. I know Larry, you and I are both parents. So it's nice to know that something like Everloop is out there. Perhaps Hillary will tell us some about their innovative technology called loops, looping, how children join loops that they share common interests. They talk to each other and of course that is all with parental approval. So welcome Hillary. We are very happy to talk with you today. Hillary DeCesare: Thank you for having me. Lucy: So tell us a little bit about what's going on at Everloop. Hillary: Well as you mentioned, Everloop is a social media platform and it is designed for kids under 13. There is a huge craze going on out there where kids are using devices far earlier than even two year older children of today. So you've got kids as young as 5, 6, 7, going on their parents' smartphone, the iPads, desktops. What we're trying to do is make sure that when these kids finally go out into the wild wild Internet and they are exposed to adults, that they're ready to actually be there and that they're not making mistakes. So Everloop's purpose is to really keep these kids safe across all devices. Larry: Well I love it. Lucy: I know. It's great, isn't it? I'm sure that some of the companies' strategies will emerge as we talk to Hillary in this interview. Why don't you let our listeners know how you got first into technology? Hillary: I started in technology at a company called Oracle. I was there for 10 years and really became passionate about different products that are out on the market. I was hungry to learn about new things being brought up and I thought of my own children and I do have three kids. As my own kids became interested in technology, I thought, you know, I've got the background and yet I still feel that I'm not connected to my kids in their digital nomadship when they are out there really exploring. And I thought, well if that is happening to me as a parent, it must be happening to others. So two other moms and entrepreneurs, we decided to join forces and create a company that was really designed to as a mission, help with safe communication. I mentioned across multiple devices and it was really mobile devices were coming into play and desktop, giving them the ability to have kids feel safe. Because they ultimately want that too but also give parents a place that they can trust. And that's why we really created Everloop. Lucy: I like that phrase, digital nomadship. Larry: Yes. Hillary: Haha. That might be a new one. Larry: There you go. Lucy: Absolutely awesome. Larry: Hillary, you've got a family. You obviously are very busy. Why are you an entrepreneur? And what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick? Hillary: Well it's interesting because someone said last week "So you're a mompreneur?" I said, I really am because I believe so strongly in giving kids a voice, having them have a homebase, having them stay kids longer. I think that today's society makes kids grow up much faster than they need to. And there's always that desire as a tween, I've heard it statistically said that kids want to be 17. But the problem is that where we have technology now, taking this kids, they're getting to the place where it took us years and years and years to get. They can get to pictures, images, videos in five seconds by going online. So for me going into being an entrepreneur and having children, you have to take a step back and say how are you going to do it all? And that is really the question. How do you create balance in your life? And I felt so strongly about what I wanted to give my own children that I use them in my test cases. I use them as my focus group. I actually engage them in the company. Larry: That's super. Lucy: Now that is very cool. I believe that's the first time we have heard that. That's awesome. Along the way Hillary, who influenced or supported you to take this career path? Hillary: Well it was interesting because I have had the privilege of really being located in the Silicon Valley. I have had the change to meet truly the top people in the industry and when I worked at Oracle, got to know just some, you know, the creme de la creme of the men and the women. I saw what it took them to really be successful and to gain the respect and you know I talked about trust. You have to, and this is really important for any entrepreneur, when you're thinking about starting a business, you have to be able to identify with at least three people that you think can mentor you and be able to coach you. What was interesting is after Oracle, I actually started a business where for five years I have helped CEOs in the Valley put strategic frameworks around their business. And sometimes when you do things like this you think, well I've done this. I coach other people. Who's going to help me figure out next steps? What's interesting is that there is always more to learn. There's always comments and feedback that people can give you. People have experiences and you have to be so willing to throw out where you are in your company and what challenges you are having. People want to help other people if they're willing to listen. So I went ahead and found three absolutely incredible mentors. I ping them all the time and throw off questions. Sometimes these are 10 minute conversations and sometimes they are an hour. Larry: That's great and I hope you listeners out there heard that because it's a great thing to go after. Now with all the different things you've done. It already sounds you are a serial entrepreneur. What was the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career? Hillary: I think the toughest besides always having the pressure of being a mom right? Because that's my number one job. That's my number one love. That's my number one focus and everything. So besides the juggling of just really being there and I'm also a single mom. So you add the element of trying to be there for your kids. I think that what you always have to remember is that this is just a job. I mean that is ultimately what it is. It's a career choice and that's the key that I just said. It is a choice. You're doing this because you ultimately want to spend your time and your hours doing it. Sometimes what happens is that you can get caught up in wanting to have something be so successful that you lose sight of why you actually started to create it in the first place. I had the opportunity at one time specifically that I will talk about. I had a chance to merge the company with another and it all sounded great. But then when you started to look at the real terms behind it, it took me away from the core focus of what I had set out to accomplish initially. I believe that you will be successful if it goes with what you are passionate about. So it was a challenging time for me because there was a moment where I could have sold myself short. I chose not to and I chose to continue down the path what I truly believe in and where I believe that this company can go. But those were tough decisions. Lucy: Absolutely and it's a great transition to our next question. Around giving advice to young people about entrepreneurship, so it seems like one piece of advice you would clearly give them is keep your perspective. What other things would you advice them about? Hillary: I would absolutely say ideas can become big, way to big to even handle so focus, focus, focus. Really put together that one page on what are you hoping to accomplish? What are your milestones going to be? Because we lose sight. You're trying to go to that end game, you're trying to get to be that, the big picture. Where you have to appreciate the small things that you accomplish. So putting plans together and I'm dig on a 30 day plan, a 90 day plan. You have to be organized enough that when you hit those small successes, you stop and you take note and you say you know what? That was really good. I was able to accomplish this. Because if you don't, what happens is you spin and you spin and you spin and you don't think you're moving forward at all. You kind of just plateaued. But in reality you actually had. You've accomplished and you're getting closer to ultimately what you're trying to build, which is a successful company. Larry: That's very good advice. Now let me ask you a related question and that is: What are the personal characteristics that have made you a good entrepreneur? Hillary: The characteristics that an entrepreneur needs to have is one you need to have very thick skin. I mean you just have to have the ability to get knocked down and get up again. It's this idea that you've got your integrity. You've got what you initially started the business to be. But then you are also flexible. I see many entrepreneurs kind of get on their path. You can't deviate at all and especially if you're dealing with technology. Technology, you can't jam in your product. The square into the circle peg. You can't do it. Sometimes you have to be able to pivot. You have to be flexible enough to realize, you know what, this idea isn't that great of an idea anymore. But willing to say, but hey, maybe this other one is a really good idea. Lucy: And that's really evolutionary right? Which is a thing that we hear a lot in these interviews that things will emerge. So Hillary you mentioned your personal and your professional lives, what kinds of tips or techniques can you share that help you bring balance to the two of them? Hillary: That we're balanced...You know what if you really showed me someone who truly balanced their lives, please introduce them to me. Lucy: We don't know anybody. Larry: We don't. Hillary: I think it's a fallacy. I think what you can try to do is realize what's important in your life and look at it as a way to say as I'm doing right now. I don't feel as guilty when I know over the dinner table, I'm discussing a new concept or new direction with the company and I'm gaining the feedback of my own children. It's interesting, I once heard that you have your life and it's in the shape of a triangle and it's you. Your family, the last is your career and the right is kind of this whole understanding that the health around you, not just your family. I think it's almost the point where you have to schedule things into your life in order to get balance. It's as crazy as saying that for these two hours I'm going to schedule time with my family at dinner and I'm not going to do anything else. You have to actually make it into a meeting so that you know in your head, nothing else. Cos if you're in a meeting with people, right now, I'm talking to you but I'm not going off and doing other things. I'm completely focused on you. You have to do that with your children. You have to do that with your health. It's so important because if one of these pieces fail, it has the tendency to spin off into other areas as well. Larry: Wow that's also great advice. By the way, I love your website. It's really super, isn't it? Lucy: It really is. Hillary: Well thank you. I'm really proud of it. I think again, trying to be this trusted source for any parent out there and giving kids a homebase where they can just go and feel like yeah this is mine. This is my place. Larry: Yes that's very good. Now you've already achieved a great deal both personally and professionally. What's next for you? Hillary: OK, you're asking an entrepreneur what's next? Well I think that I'm passionate about the kids phase. I love everything about it. I'm so excited with new partnerships that I'm developing for Everloop. I get approached all the time with new technology and it just fascinates me on how we are spending our lives these days. How everything is just gammafied around you. How do you make people interested in doing things without having everything be about a reward system? You look at kids and I'm a mom that does it. Hey if you do this, you get this. But it's interesting because how far will we go? So when I look at where technology is shaping kids. I just read that kids are learning to use an iPad before they can even tie their shoes. This is fascinating to me! I think where I see myself is really uncovering those great technologies in the future that aren't detriments to a kids life but enhances. Larry: You know I think that's so true. I've heard that kids today are taking three months longer to learn how to walk. That's only because they've got to learn how to text first. Hillary: I agree with you. Lucy: But they can't text while walking. Hillary: Exactly but when you have my daughter who is 14 and she texts about a 100 texts a day. She can do it in about 30 seconds and I'm still the thumbs and trying to get my text. She will look at me and say "Are you still sending that one text?' She's just light years ahead of me. I laugh at my 11 year old when she says "Mommy, are you in this new app?' She knew Instagram months before I did. It was so great. She's now telling me " Have you seen this? Have you seen this? Are you playing draw something?' I love it because I sit down and I'm like OK again. She's educating me. Now how can I educate all the other parents in the world? Lucy: And that's why a one final tip right? Make sure your subject matter experts live with you. Hillary: You know what they are the domain experts. I just realize that right now, but make sure you're not disconnected with it. Make sure that you embrace it because it is their way of life. If you want to communicate with your kids going forward, it's not your way. It's their way or the highway. Lucy: It's really true. My son was very impressed with me last night when I sent a photo with a text message. Larry: Whoa, very good. Lucy: I know, I graduated. So Hillary, we can't let you go without asking about your recent appearance on Secret Millionaire. How was that? That's pretty cool. Hillary: Oh I have to say I have always been passionate about giving back. I felt a little hypocritical as I was sitting here on Everloop, letting kids join fabulous charities and hearing more about what kids love to volunteer and what they do if they had the ability to go out and actually make a huge difference. I was approached by this opportunity and initially I thought I'm not definitely into the reality world. I barely even watch TV. I thought more about it and the fact that I could uncover by being placed in a city that I'm unfamiliar with and uncover wonderful charities and be able to help them become known. All these unsung heroes that are doing amazing things. I thought you know what? This is such a great way now. We've taken one of the charities that I've uncovered when I was doing the show and this little boy who started a charity called Love in the Mirror when he was eight years old. He now has a loop on Everloop and he shares what he is doing in the community to help make it a better place. It all came together. It made me feel good. It made the people that are hearing about what we did feel good. The charities that I got to meet. I mean I'm still friends with every single one of them. It's one of those that you feel blessed where something fell into my lap that was just so outside the box for me. It proved to be one of the highlights of my life to date. Lucy: Well it was very compelling. I went and looked out on it on the web and I think it's the perfect way to end an interview because it just really defines you and Everloop and what people are using Everloop for. I know that your site has a page that lists the charities in case listeners are interested. Hillary: Well thank you for taking the time to talk with me and I love talking to you both. Hopefully we will be able to do this again soon. Lucy: Great I want to remind listeners again that they can find this interview at ncwit.org and... Larry: W3w3.com Lucy: All right, thank you Hillary. Larry: Thank you. Hillary: Take care. Bye-bye. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Hilary DeCesareInterview Summary: As the mother of three young children, Hilary DeCesare recognized the unmet need for a safe environment for kids to connect online with friends, play games, share pictures and music, and learn new skills. With her children in mind, she created Everloop, a social media platform for kids under 13. Release Date: August 1, 2012Interview Subject: Hilary DeCesareInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 19:12

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Jennifer Pahlka Founder and Executive Director, Code for America Date: January 2, 2012 [intro music] Lucy Sanders: Hello, this is Lucy Sanders, CEO and Co-Founder of NCWIT, the National Center for Woman and Information Technology and with me today, Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Larry, what's going on with old w3w3.com? Larry Nelson: Oh my goodness. We have so much fun, we interview so many people. We've even been doing it for 12 years now. I must say that this series is extraordinary for us, because what it does for young women, bosses, parents and the like, it's very good. So thank you. Lucy: Well, listeners will know, we ask women who have started tech companies as part of the series, pretty much the same eight questions and the richness of the answers never ceases to amaze me. Larry: Oh yeah. Lucy: I think today we are talking to yet another great entrepreneur in the technology sector, Jennifer Pahlka, who is the Founder and Executive Director of Code for America. Now, this is an awesome effort and I am going to describe it the way that Jennifer did in a recent talk. She says, "It's like a Teach for America or a Peace Corps for Geeks." Larry: Yes. Lucy: I just think that's so cool that people in government and city managers for example, who have projects that they think could benefit from web-based solutions and you can make an appeal to Code for America and get volunteer help to help build these projects out, really in some sense making government more open and giving citizens easier access to data. So, I think we are going to hear more about that. Welcome, Jennifer. We are so happy to have you here. Jennifer Pahlka: Thank you. I am very glad to be here. Lucy: This is not the first thing Jennifer has been. She is also a serial entrepreneur and has some extensive experience in gaming and media. Before we get off on your entrepreneurship discussion, Jennifer, why don't you tell us a little bit about the latest Code for America? Maybe you can tell us what projects like, "Adopt-a-Fire- Hydrant" are like? [laughs] Larry: Yeah. Jennifer: Sure, I'd be happy to. We are a pretty new organization, and we just finished up our very first fellowship year. We had 19 fellows work with us all year along and work with the cities, doing great projects. One of them is Adopt-a-Fire-Hydrant app, which came out of the fact the fellows go visit the cities for Fire Weeks in February and when they were there, our Boston team was treated to a massive Snow Apocalypse and one of the things they saw is that, the city is struggling just to clear the streets. They never really get to digging out the fire hydrant. But that the citizens were right in front of them and they could dig them out. So we created a little web app that allows citizens to claim a fire hydrant and agree to dig it out when it snows and the game dynamics on top of it that make it pretty fun. What's cool about that is that other cities who've seen this and adopted it as well. You wouldn't think that Honolulu has anything to do with Boston in terms of something like snow, but they have a similar problem. They need people to check the batteries in the tsunami sirens on the beach. Lucy: Oh my God. Jennifer: Too expensive for them to send crews around, checking them every week. So let citizens do that. Now it's also become Adopt-a-Siren and in Buenos Aires it's becoming Adopt-a-Park Bench and in other cities they are using it for other assets that are important to them. Lucy: Oh, it's so cool, because people who really care about being a good citizen are plugged in, in ways that they know they can make a difference and be helpful. Larry: Yes. Jennifer: Exactly, yeah. Lucy: Awesome. So, Jennifer, tell us a little bit about how you got into starting a technology company, like what got you into doing that? Jennifer: I wasn't a technical person. My first exposure to technology was actually in the video game industry, which is an incredibly dynamic interesting group to be in, because they are so creative and yet so at the cutting edge of technology. Video games are often breaking grounds in terms of graphics and sound, business models. It was a wonderful introduction not just to technology but community that's so creative and that made me really love technology. But doing conferences both in video game world and in the Web 2.0 world you are constantly talking to some of the smartest, brightest, most passionate people. You see that all of their efforts go towards building products or building services for companies that create a lot of value in our lives. But they don't really go toward building the public institutions that we all pay into and that we all believe should represent us. And so, as a result, without that talent, the public sector is really falling behind. I founded Code for America because I want some of the talent that I have seen over the course of my career in technology, think about building platforms for the public sector as well as the private sector. Start to close that gap between the innovation curve that we're all benefiting from in our personal lives and the way that government works. Lucy: How big do you think that gap is for the public institutions, just out of curiosity? How far behind are they? Jennifer: Well, there's that phrase, the future is already here, it's just unevenly distributed. Lucy: Yes. Jennifer: That's very true in city government. You've got some incredibly innovative projects. You've got a lot of very innovative people doing wonderful stuff. For example, here in San Francisco, they put sensors in the curbs so they know what parking spaces are taken and what aren't and they've got some complex algorithms that change the pricing of parking in real time in order to optimize to have just one space open per block in San Francisco. If you live in San Francisco, you know how important that is. There's never any parking in San Francisco. But if you do that, you reduce the number, you reduce congestion, you reduce people driving around the block, it had some environmental effects. That's an example of people. There's many others like that. They're doing really great cutting edge stuff, but then you've also got tons of departments and, even within the same city, you'll have different departments that are still running their technology on Coball databases, stuff that's extremely outdated. Not with just bad technology or outdated technology that doesn't have modern develop per community around it, but also with just very outdated approaches about how to provide services to citizens that's stuck in an 80s and 90s model. So, it really varies. I don't want to discount how great some of the government technology leaders are these days, but there's a very long tail behind that that we need to catch up. Lucy: Well, and for all you listeners out there with Coball skills. [laughs] Larry: Yes, Lucy, are you talking about yourself? Lucy: Actually, I took Coball in college. [laughs] I'm thinking I could probably make more money doing that than what I'm doing. Jennifer: You've got some cities that are going to their local community colleges asking them to teach Coball now so that they can fill those slots, which I'm not sure is really the way to go, buy hey. [laughs] Lucy: [laughs] Now look, you've got to go after the age people who are thinking about retiring and lure them out you know, for sure. Larry: I'm thinking when they have to and then deter from that a little bit to get to our next question. Lucy: OK. Larry: Jennifer, why are you an entrepreneur and what is it about you that entrepreneurship makes you tick? Jennifer: I don't think I thought of myself as an entrepreneur, really, until I came up with the idea for Code for America. I think what's important about that to young women who are thinking about this is that you don't have to feel like you're branded an entrepreneur from the time you're 18. I came up with this idea when I was 39, and I suddenly felt that I could be incredibly useful to the world if I made this happen. It was really the power of the idea and the notion that no one else was going to do it, that made me start this organization. It certainly took some risk. I'm not a particularly risk adverse person and that's probably one quality that's important. But it was really feeling like this needed to happen and that no one else was going to do it, that made me start Code for America. Lucy: I love that answer. Larry: Yes. Lucy: I think it's great. Along that path when you started Code for America, did you have people influence you, or did you have mentors, or role models, or who shaped your thinking, if anybody? Jennifer: Well, early in my career I worked for a number of very strong, powerful but also so caring and nurturing women at the upper levels as media companies that I worked for. Actually, mostly one media company that went through a number of mergers and acquisitions. The president of our group when I was at the game that all the press conference is a woman named Regina Redly. I think the way that connect with technology, the way that she took care of her people all the way that she made the work environment as important as the work outcome, very much influenced me. Later on, when I was starting the idea of Code for America, I was very much inspired by Tim O'Reilly, the guy who's credit with the Web 2.0 and who's been a big thinker in open source. He continues now to be one of my mentors. I was also very inspired by Gwen Mellor who own the Sunlight Foundation D.C. She is a little bit more on the politics side. But someone who's very clear about the effects she wants to have in the world, very engaging, very kind and supportive person. Sunlight Foundation was initially the physical sponsor for Code for America because she actually very concretely helped Code for America get started and I'm very grateful to her. Larry: Good, wow, with all the things you've done. Lucy: So far. Larry: So far, that's right. I can't help but wonder what is one of the toughest things or the toughest thing that you ever had to do in your career? Jennifer: It's a difficult question. There's a lot of testing with the bum and bust cycles in technology. Certainly, when you have to lay people off, it's very painful because it's easy for them to take it personally. I've seen all this people well, moving on in so I'm less afraid of it than I used to be but it's hard to see people feel demoralized. I would have to say that now the hardest thing with Code for America is with very competitive process. We can only take 25 people a year right now to do our fellowship. We have 550 people apply. So when someone standing up and raising their hand and saying I want a Code for America, I'm going to move across the country work for some soft stipend, work long hours, and do this crazy thing. They're saying they want to do that and we say sorry you're not chosen. That's probably the hardest thing because you want to honor that instinct and that commitment and that generosity saying they are willing to do it. Lucy: Interesting, so as a side question, are you funded through donations then? Jennifer: Primarily, yes, from foundations, from corporations, from individuals. We also charge the cities that get a fellow team for the year a small participation fee so that it is not all on a charitable community. Lucy: It's a great effort. For all you listeners out there with big wallets... [laughter] Jennifer: Please. Lucy: Please yes. Jennifer: In your holiday giving. Lucy: Absolutely, so if you were sitting here with a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what would you tell them? Jennifer: I think the biggest thing I would share with an entrepreneur about an entrepreneur is to really care. You have to care about what you're doing. You have to deeply care about the problem you are trying to solve and think it's an important problem, and care about the people that you work with. If you don't really care deeply about your work other people won't and you won't be successful. That's the heart I think of this notion that we want to inspire the tech community, men and women to work on stuff that matters. If you really care you are much more likely to be successful. Larry: That's wonderful. Once again, all the things you've done and you did you start out to be an entrepreneur and now you've become one. What are the personal characteristics do you think that are giving you the advantage of being an entrepreneur? Jennifer: A lot of people would talk about risk think that's an important when you do have to be able to take risk. I turned this organization with $10,000 in the bank for the Sunlight Foundation. That was it. When there was a lot more than was needed I quit my job, I didn't have any income for a while, that was important. I think personally for me I would have to say that my focus on a network in a community around what we do is probably in the most important. Somebody once said and I wish I knew who it was, "The time to build your network is before you need it." Lucy: Exactly. Larry: Yeah. Jennifer: I work in the conference industry. So my job was to know a lot of people and to have them care about the work we did and have them invest in the events that we did, in the content, in the ideas that we are promoting. I was lucky, and lucky that was what I was focused on for the first part of my career, because I did build a big network and I valued the people in my network very, very much. I am aware every day of how much the people who support our work and I am not just talking about our donors, though they are very important. I am talking about the people who come in and work, the fellows, the people who share our message on Twitter, whatever little thing people do because they care about our work. We exist because of them and I never want to take our network for granted. I think that's really helped build Code for America. Larry: Great. Lucy: Well, then that's so true about your network. You build networks, not necessarily with the intention that you are going to get something back from them, but because it's the right thing to do, to build those networks and to be in service to others and that's how the system works. I have seen so many people who really don't quite understand that. [laughs] Larry: Yeah. Jennifer: I think that's exactly why you need to build a network because you care about other people not because you want them to do things for you. Lucy: I know it's a little backwards just looking. Jennifer: No, I totally agree. Lucy: You're totally self-absorbed. So your starting Code for America, obviously you care very deeply about it. You are very busy with the getting a non-profit off the ground. I know it's really hard work. What is it that you do or what sort of tips can you pass along for balance between all the hard work and passion for Code for America and then your side life? Jennifer: That's an important topic for welfare for women, in particular, though I don't think should be for women in particular, I think it should be men and women. But it's always a challenge. It's been challenge for me before I started Code for America as well. There is a woman named Charlene Li, who runs Altimeter Group. She quit Forrester Group, but when she did, she blog something along the lines that's there is no such thing as work-life balances, its only disappointing and each party last which is a testament that you can see that that it is very difficult. I think I've seen this most effective for me is I have an eight-year-old daughter and my time with her is incredibly precious. I have her half time. When I am with her, I have the personal will, the power in me to actually turn off the vices, or if I have to respond to something else or tell her what it is and say, I am doing this. I am texting so and so for this reason and then I am going to turn my phone off. Knowing that that person needs me and that when I am paying attention to her, I get so much delight out of that interaction. It helps me create some boundaries between the work and home that I probably wouldn't have it, if I didn't have her. I am so grateful for my daughter in my life. Larry: I can relate to that. I have four daughters. Jennifer: Oh, you are very blessed. Larry: Yes. We certainly are. Jennifer, let me ask this. You've already achieved a great deal and we really appreciate and have a great deal of respect for the track you are on, but what's coming up next for you? Jennifer: It's funny, I don't think of myself as an ambitious person, but I do have some goals for Code for America that I would like us to see work not just in government technology at some point, but I think some of the approaches that we are taking to rebooting government should also be applied in education and that would be interesting for me. I don't know when or if it will happen, but I care a lot about education and I think that we could be putting more money into teachers and less money into administration if we find committees, principals that work, ++who you think was government. So that would be exciting for me, but beyond that I think hopefully what's next for me is more of work-life balance and I think that's really important. Larry: There you go. Lucy: Amen. Larry: Excellent. Lucy: And a great answer. Well, thank you so much for talking to us. Code for America, a great, great organization, growing and hopefully all you citizens, coders out there maybe can get involved. Thanks very much, I want to remind listeners that this interview can be found at w3w3.com and also at ncwit.org. Larry: You bet. Jennifer, thank you so much. Jennifer: Thank you very much for having me. Larry: Yes. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Jennifer PahlkaInterview Summary: Code for America’s Founder and Executive Director, Jennifer Pahlka describes her company as “Teach for America or Peace Corps for geeks.” Working in cities across the United States, Code for America is building a network of civic leaders who believe that there is a better way of doing things and want to make a difference using web-based solutions. Release Date: January 2, 2012Interview Subject: Jennifer PahlkaInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 17:31

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Shanna Tellerman Product Line Manager, Autodesk Date: October 3, 2011 [intro music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, National Center for Women & Information Technology. We're working hard to encourage more girls and women to pursue computing, education and career paths. This interview series with women who have started great technology companies is very inspirational. and to be having great advice for all entrepreneurs in terms of starting companies. With me Larry Nelson, w3w3. Hi Larry. Larry Nelson: Oh boy! It's a pleasure to be here. This is a great, great series. I know your listeners want to pass this interview along to others and you know would be interested and they can listen to it at couple of different places that we'll give you at the end of the show 24/7. Lucy: Today, we have another great person to interview. The talent just keeps coming. Today, we're talking to Shanna Tellerman who is currently at Autodesk, Cloud Services and Applications, but before that she was Founder and CEO of Wild Pockets. Shanna is in a post- acquisition mode. That's a very exciting thing to have a company that you are the founder of, be acquired. Wild Pockets is an end-to -end open source solution that supports creators through the life cycle of 3D game development. I can't wait to hear more about it. It was Shanna's first technology company out of graduate school, but she attended Carnegie Mellon University, which is just a great, great school. She attended the Entertainment Technology Center. Doesn't that sound like great deal of fun? Shanna welcome. We're really happy to talk to you today. Shanna Tellerman: Thank you, glad to be here. Lucy: Tell us a little bit about Wild Pockets/Autodesk and what's happening. Shanna: My company was Wild Pockets. We were building out a 3D game engine that you could access in a web browser. What we were trying to do is make the ability to build games, 3D games specifically, easier and more broadly accessible to anybody. When my company first met with Autodesk, Autodesk is the creator of 3D tools and all kinds of products for the media world, the entertainment world, architecture, manufacturing, engineering. They saw what we were doing and saw that we had an idea that could be applicable to a lot of their different tools and products here at Autodesk. There was a lot of synergy between our teams and the company. Ultimately they decided that we should join them. Now I work at Autodesk. I'm the Product Line Manager for our new Autodesk cloud product line, something that's coming out this fall. It has been started through the summer last year. It's a really exciting new space for Autodesk. We're doing some awesome new things. Lucy: Well, that's pretty exciting. We don't often talk to people who are in that post-acquisition mode, so maybe a sentence or two about what that was all like. Shanna: This Autodesk acquisition of our company was a pretty quick experience. We had been talking to them and working with them a bit over the course of two years. Then, when I met with one of their directors of engineering, he was really an exciting person to talk to and visionary here at Autodesk. Then I would think up on what we were doing and what he was doing on a fairly regular basis. We did that a couple of times over the course of two years. Finally, they said, "We really want to move forward. We want to make their team part of our company." Once they said that, the process went really quickly. It was really about working together, figuring out the right terms, making sure investors were happy, et cetera, but we all had the end goal in mind. Within a couple of months, the whole deal was closed. Our team in Pittsburgh can move into an Autodesk office in Pittsburgh. I was in San Francisco. I had moved into their San Francisco Office. Before I knew it, I was completely part of the Autodesk Company. Lucy: Surprised. That's very good. Congratulations. Shanna: Thank you. Lucy: Shanna, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about how you first got into technology? Everybody is always curious to know what was it that first sparked your interest. Shanna: I first got into technology during college actually. I had gone into college for fine arts, of all things. I was painting and drawing and doing very traditional art, but Carnegie Mellon is an extremely practical and tech-heavy school. It's one of the number one computer science schools across the country and a great engineering program. They have a lot of interdisciplinary programs. Even though I was in the art school, it didn't take very long before I was introduced to all of the amazing things going on in the computer science program. Specifically, I had seen this one presentation from this course called "Building Virtual Worlds." They did a big presentation for the whole school at the end of their semester. It was really like a show they put on. People were standing on stage, wearing these 3D virtual reality glasses, and taking you through like video games that were being projected live. They were playing through it in real time. I looked at that. I was like, "This is the coolest thing I have ever seen. I have to go to that class. I have to take that class, because they combine artists with computer scientists, so I would get to build these worlds, but I didn't have to know how to program them." That was really what drew me in to technology. I had played around with some of the different editing programs, Photoshop, and other kinds of programs, Director, and a little bit of the 3D tools, but it was the end result. It was looking at the incredible things that could be produced. They were both visual, but also interactive that drew me in. Lucy: Well, Carnegie Mellon does that so well. They are so well known for interdisciplinary curriculum and computing, a great place to be drawn in, I must say. One more technology question for you. When you look out, your purview of the technology landscape, what technologies do you think are particularly interesting or up-and- comer? Shanna: Well, I'm going to have to say it's really all about the cloud right now. That's what I'm excited about working on it at this very moment. It's about not having to be tied to one particular device or your laptop or your computer or your phone, but it's about being able to take the thing you're doing anywhere that you want to be. You're working on a document. You can access it from or your phone or your iPad even, you're playing a game and you log in here and then log out and then you log back in from your TV. It's in the same place and remember who you are. The cloud is providing incredible opportunities for us to be super- connected and also things that people don't really usually think about, which is it can process in compute intense data at a rate that a single machine can't. Some of the really cool things we're doing here at Autodesk includes rendering in the cloud. Rendering when you take like a 3D model and you create a photorealistic version of that 3D model with all of the perfect lighting and the materials that were just like they do in the real world. Usually you'd be an artist and you'd be sitting at your computer and maybe building a model of a house. If you want to do a rendering a bit to show the client what that house is looked like, then you had clicked the render button and then you would probably log out for the evening and let it run for hours while it creates that photorealistic rendering. When you send that to the cloud, you can scale up. You can do renderings in minutes or they can take a few hours, but you keep working on your machine, because it's not processing locally anymore. That to me is just the tip of the iceberg of the incredible things that the cloud can do. Lucy: Speaking of rendering, too, I remember about eight or nine years ago watching something I thought was pretty simple get rendered, and it did, it took forever. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: Speeding this stuff up is good. Larry: I'm more empathetic than I want. Lucy: Yes. Larry: Shanna, can you hear me? You came out of Carnegie Mellon and you formed a company. Why did you become that entrepreneur and what is that about entrepreneurship that makes you tick? Shanna: I became an entrepreneur totally accidentally. I came out of Carnegie Mellon. Actually well I was still within Carnegie Mellon. I was working on a project in graduate school that to me felt like a really had legs. It was something that we had prototyped and we had shown to our end users. They were excited about it and they wanted to start using it in the real world. I said, "Oh! How can we make that happen?" The university was not planning to continue to develop it into a commercial product. They build prototypes, they build samples, but they don't commercially distribute software. I started looking at can we get grants to the university to commercialize this or is there another path? Before I knew it, I started talking to local business people and investors. They said, "I think there is a commercial opportunity here." At which point, I said, "OK. Well, let's see if we can make this happen." Really it was my eagerness to try to get something from prototype to reality that drove me into entrepreneurship. Larry: Wow! Lucy: Well, I suppose that the accidental entrepreneur is may be more common than we think. Larry: Yes. Lucy: You know for sure. Who influenced or supported you to take that path? It sounds like people, perhaps at CMU or in the local community who you had talked to, were encouraging you to take that technology outside the university. Who else influenced you? Shanna: I had a bunch of great mentors along the way. The very first one was somebody named Randy Pausch, which perhaps you've heard. He is famous for the book he wrote and the talk he gave called "The Last Lecture." He was actually the person who ran that class that I talked about Building Virtual Worlds. He was the reason I got into technology. He was influential through my whole course into starting a company and supporter all along the way for everything I was doing. He was one of my first mentors and I recommend seeing "The Last Lecture" if you've not seen that, because he unfortunately passed away from cancer a few years ago. But before he got sick, he was an incredible teacher. Another mentor for me was someone named Jesse Schell, very well- known in the game industry. He's done a bunch of talks on something called "Gamification" and he worked at Disney Imagineering and he's now a professor at the Entertainment Technology Center, he has a game studio. He was one of my early advisers, an adviser/co-founder when we started this company. He was somebody who really was there in the early days supporting me and encouraging me and helping me figure out how to get this company up and running. Very quickly after that, I met somebody name Jake Witherell. He had been a former entrepreneur who was a local person. He was just an informal adviser and guided me through all kinds of the bumps and chaos of starting a company in the early days. Then in the later days of the company, I moved from Pittsburgh where I started the company in the area of Carnegie Mellon. I moved out to San Francisco where I started working with venture capitalists and investors in Silicon Valley. There was one woman that I met out here who was actually a Carnegie Mellon grad as well. She was an accomplished entrepreneur as well as an accomplished venture capitalist. Her name is Cindy Padnos. She was an amazing mentor for me. She helped me establish myself out here. She connected me to people to invest in the company. She also connected me with lots of partners and lots of opportunities. A really incredible woman. Lucy: She is incredible. She has a venture fund that she's forming called Illuminate Ventures. She's just a fabulous person. Larry: All of these different things that you've done, graduating and starting your own business and getting acquired. What is the toughest thing that you've had to do? Shanna Tellerman: There's a lot of tough things when you're an entrepreneur. Stacking them up and saying the toughest one is a hard thing to pick, but I would say that actually it had to be letting people go. One of the toughest things that you have to do is manage a team. A team of people works best together when the culture and the environment is right. Oftentimes you'll hire somebody and they may be really talented or really smart or really good in some way, but they just aren't fitting. They aren't fitting the team or they aren't doing the work they need to do. To have to make the call that that person doesn't belong in the company anymore is the hardest call that I've ever had to make in my life. We've had that happen a few times. I really liked and respected the people, but the fit wasn't right. I just knew that that kind of a bad seed on your team can disrupt your progress. Lucy: I think too that generally the people themselves know that they're not a fit. They're going to be happier someplace else. That's what I always used to tell myself. "I'm doing them a favor." Shanna: You do think that. You think after the fact, I hope that their next opportunity really makes them look back at this and say, I'm glad that things ended and I'm glad I was able to move on, but in the moment it is such a difficult thing when the person is unhappy. I'm one of those people who really thrives on energizing people and getting them excited and making them motivated and happy. To deliver a message that's the total opposite is really difficult. Lucy: It is difficult. I think almost everybody that I had to let go ended up being the better for it and came back and told me so. Larry: There you go. Lucy: I can tell so far in listening to you that you have a great deal of passion about the technology and about energizing people and having a great team. What other kind of advice would you give a young person about entrepreneurship? What other kinds of things do you think are really important? Shanna: The first thing that's really important is just doing it. I think that most people stumble on the idea that they're not ready, that they're not prepared, that there's one more thing that they need to do first, the time isn't right, etc., etc. My personal feeling is if you've got an idea, you're motivated to make something happen of it, the best thing in the world you can do is go for it. You're going to definitely make mistakes. You're definitely going to fumble. It may not work out, but that's not the end of the world. It's really that journey and the learning experience that you get from it that's the most meaningful. The worst thing you can do is sit around and wait until everything feels like it's perfectly ready to go. Getting yourself out there and getting something started is the best thing that you can make happen. The other thing that I would say is surround yourself with incredible people. It's the people who have been around me that have made me who I am and have made these opportunities possible. I never could've done this on my own. I've always looked to a great team of people to work with, to a great team of people to advise me, to a great team of professionals to work with whether that be legal or whether that be HR or accounting, you look for people that you trust and that you know are going to be partners through what will hopefully be a long and very fruitful adventure, but could also be difficult and strenuous at times. Larry: Once again, you've been through a number of different things. I'm very fascinated by it, as well as your company. What are the personal characteristics that you have that makes you an entrepreneur? Shanna: I think entrepreneurs are generally curious people. They are people who get excited by the world and are excited by the possibilities of what they can do to change the world. They believe in themselves that they might have the opportunity to make that happen. I think there's a bit of confidence you have to build as an entrepreneur. There's a bit of fear of nothing. You have to believe that anything is possible and that your wildest dreams could come true. I also think you have to be extremely dedicated and extremely motivated because it's a lot of hard work. You need to focus and you need to get a lot done. You're probably the kind of person, if you're an entrepreneur, who has always over-committed or overdone everything that they've tried to do because that's just the personality that you have. But number one is really that curiosity or you're the kind of person who wants to explore and wants to try to make things happen. Lucy: I think that reminds me of the word "invention," too. You're curious. You take it one step. You see what happens. You take it another step and you just keep pushing forward with that relentlessness to really get it to move. You mentioned hard work and being dedicated. That gets us to our next question around having both a work life and a personal life. How would you integrate the two? Some people would even say balance, although I think we've come to realize that there is no such thing as balance in entrepreneurship. How do you address that in your own life? Shanna: Well I think the first thing is you have to love your work, because if you're an entrepreneur you're working a lot more than most people work. It does seep into every area of your life. If you don't like what you're doing you're not going to be very happy. That's the first thing I recommend. On top of that, I do think it's important to structure in balance. My first year or two I found that I was always on, I was always stressed, I was always anxious. I didn't really take time off for myself. It had a negative result. It made me more tired. It made me less focused at times when I needed to be focused. Eventually, by the 3rd or 4th year of my company, I started realizing on the weekends I need to take a good day or so where I'm not checking email and I'm not working, maybe even two days, which for an entrepreneur is a lot, but you need that time to rest and to get your mind off of everything going on. For me, I'm pretty active. I do that through sports. I've done triathlons. I've made a lot of friends out in the Bay area who also do triathlons. It's such a beautiful place to live in, the Bay area. There's so many places to explore that I just found being outside and being around people really rejuvenated me and put a lot of balance into my life. Larry: Wow, I could get tired just watching you, I think. Lucy: I think you might be an extrovert. Larry: Lucy, she does a lot of running too. Lucy: And I'm an extrovert: Larry: You have achieved a great deal for such a young person. I have to say that while you talked about the cloud and the things that you're doing with the company right now. What do you see is next for you? Shanna: I'd like to start something again at some point in my life. Right now I'm at Autodesk. I'm loving what I'm doing here at Autodesk. If it keeps going as it is today there's a good chance I will stay here because we're getting to start all kinds of things within the structure of a big company. I could also see an opportunity where something comes along and starting another company just makes sense and I dive into that and grow something from the ground up again. I'm pretty open. I usually let things come to me and roll in as they happen. I take the opportunity when something feels right to jump on it and try it out. Larry: Wow. I love it. Lucy: I think that's great. One thing I wanted to mention when you said that Shanna has accomplished a lot. I just have to give her a shout out for being named "Business Week's" best young entrepreneurs in 2009. That must have felt real good. Shanna: Maybe. Lucy: Yeah. One other thing too that I want to thank you for is your participation in organizations around women and computing and thank you for that. Great organizations like Astia, Women 2.0, Girl Geeks, etc. Thank you for your participation with those groups. They are most excellent. Thank you Shanna. We really enjoyed talking with you. Larry, do you want to remind listeners where they can find this interview? Larry: Absolutely. A couple of really neat places, ncwit.org, up there for sure, also at w3w3.com. You can listen to both 24/7. You'll see it in our podcast as well as our blog. Lucy: Shanna, thank you very much. Shanna: Thank you very much. This is definitely the area of passion for me. I hope that more girls do get into technology. I love opportunities like this. Thank you for having me. Lucy: Thank you. Larry: Thanks for being here. Shanna: OK. Thank you. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Shanna TellermanInterview Summary: Shanna Tellerman describes herself as an “accidental-entrepreneur” who turned a course project from Carnegie Mellon University into reality in the form of her first tech company, Wildpockets. The company focused on democratizing access to game development by providing a cloud hosted game engine. It was later acquired by Autodesk Cloud Services and Applications, where Shanna currently works as the Product Line Manager. Release Date: October 3, 2011Interview Subject: Shanna TellermanInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 20:42

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Stephanie Boyle Founder, Rogue Paper, Inc. Date: August 29, 2011 [music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women in Information Technology. We're working hard to make sure that more girls and women are introduced to the exciting potential of computing education and career paths. Part of what we're doing is this exciting interview series with women who have started IT companies. They're fabulous entrepreneurs. They all have such interesting stories to tell. today we're going to interview another one, Stephanie Boyle. With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3.com. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Oh, it's really a pleasure to be here. We like to focus, of course, on business and high technology with a special emphasis on young girls and women in technology. NCWIT has been doing a marvelous job. We're happy to be a part of it. Lucy: Well, and thank you very much for all the support that you give us with this excellent interview series. Now let me say a few words about Stephanie Boyle, the person we're talking to today. She's nothing less than a pioneer in the mobile Internet space as far as I'm concerned, having first helped shape the area as a founding member of Ericsson's Digital Media Innovation Center. Big brain thinking going on in this center, and it really helped to shape the whole mobile area. Now she is the founder of Rogue Paper, and she and her team deliver integrated mobile experiences to users. Now in the old days we used to call this convergence, but there's really a whole lot more exciting language and capability around the space today. I'm sure that Stephanie will be talking about that. But some of the things you can do now with the things that they're working on with Rogue Paper around co‑viewing a TV show and interacting with social media at the same time and integrating all of that. You're thinking, "That's really cool real‑time experience." But wait. There's more. You can actually do it with a rerun, where you can experience the whole power of what people said about the show or whatever movie and do it even when you are replaying or rerunning it. Just really interesting types of interactions going on right now and certainly leading to more engaging experience for viewers. Stephanie, wow! You've got a great company. Tell us a little bit about what's going on here. Stephanie Boyle: Thank you. Rogue Paper, we really started the business a year and a half ago with the mission of using mobile applications and technology to help enhance and drive traditional medium broadcast. Basically we are self‑proclaimed "TV‑holics"... Lucy: [laughs] Stephanie: ...and recognized [laughs] that we really wanted to not only watch television but really interact with the social sphere while we're watching these shows, that the content goes beyond just the primary screen. Really there is a second screen opportunity that can be interactive and augment the primary screen. There's a lot of really bad television being watched, but then [laughs] along with a lot of our guilty pleasures, which makes our jobs definitely a little bit more fun. But we really focused on how can we make the primary screen of television an interactive experience for users on the second screen, whether the second screen is a mobile device, a tablet, a desktop experience, or other things? We're trying to provide the users with second screen interactive content but then also provide media companies a way to reach these people already multitasking, who are already texting with their friends or IM‑ing or posting to Facebook or tweeting about what they're watching. It's really trying to bring the experience together as one single destination for a viewer and for the media companies to really have a holistic double‑screen experience. Lucy: That's really phenomenal. OK, I have a lot of guilty pleasures with TV, too. [laughs] One of them is American Idol, right? Stephanie: Right. [laughs] Lucy: When people are performing, and then people are tweeting or they've got things to say later in the blogs, and it's just not as much fun as if you could see it right then. Stephanie: Yeah. Well, and if you think about it, television has always been a social experience. It started in the 1950s. Maybe one or two people on a block had a television. It was really event driven. The people would come and sit together, and watch whatever was on the television and really talk about it together. Then as the technology innovations and as even socio‑economic things happened, we had VCRs and all of these second screens in the home, second televisions in the home, if you go into the seventies and eighties. Then the conversations started moving around the water cooler, so it was where people aggregated. It could be eight hours, 10 hours, 24 hours after the show aired. In the last two decades this has really moved into a digital landscape. I would say in the last five years or so it's really become back to real time because people aren't sitting together anymore. They're actually on their sofas or tweeting or talking, texting, or instant messaging. All these different mediums, but it's all really because, as a medium, it is social. Lucy: Yes, it certainly is. I remember the first time I saw a color TV in my neighborhood. It was Halloween. Larry: Oh! Lucy: I know. Stephanie: [laughs] Lucy: I was trick or treating. Anyway, back to you, Stephanie. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about how you first got into technology? Stephanie: Yeah. I was always interested in systems and the way things interconnect. I was of a generation that there was one computer in our elementary school to having them in high school and later. But wasn't necessarily as intrigued with the computers themselves as I was with the Ataris, the ColecoVisions, [laughs] the computer systems that we had at home that really could help me build games or play games. But always interested in how the systems worked and how people interacted with them. Actually, my mother was the first person to show me a computer in a way where she took it apart and had me put it back together. Lucy: Oh, that is awesome. Stephanie: Yeah. [laughs] While I'm not a digital native, I was exposed to technology as something that could be deconstructed to learn about and then put it back together. It definitely eliminated fear for me. It's always something that I felt was accessible, interesting, and intriguing. As time went on, I'm self‑taught in a lot of ways because of that because if I don't know how to program in HTML5, I'll have somebody [laughs] do it for me. Then I'll take it apart and try and change it and put it back together. But definitely I look to my mother as the person who eliminated that "technology is this strange and new" thing and made it instead something that was tangible and interesting. Larry: I wish I had known you a number of years ago when we needed something put back together. [laughter] Stephanie: Right. I remember being intrigued by this whole concept of my mother showing me the mother board in the computer. [laughter] Lucy: That's great. Stephanie: [laughs] I didn't really believe her that that was what it was called. Larry: Being the father of five I thought it should have been called a father board. But anyhow... Stephanie: [laughs] Larry: You've been through a great deal. You're really building an interesting company. What is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick, and why did you become an entrepreneur? Stephanie: Well, it's really interesting. I think the most exciting part of being an entrepreneur is the infinite blank canvas. Even when you have a product, an idea, a customer, anything, the next steps are never really clearly defined. Persistent problem‑solving and adjusting can be exhausting, but overall for me it's invigorating. It's how do we get to the next step? How do we keep moving forward? What ways do we need to be nimble and still meet our business objectives, our product objectives, our client objectives, the user objectives? It almost feels like the future is so undefined, and in that way I feel like it's really exciting. I often liken it to building a bridge while you're walking over it, which, of course, scares our business people to death. You should build a bridge on a [laughs] stable foundation. But what I mean by that is being an entrepreneur often allows you to be nimble enough to defy gratify and space as necessary. You're moving forward, but the future is undefined and you are still defining it. Lucy: Well, you're inventing it. I mean entrepreneurs are great inventors, right? Stephanie: Yeah, definitely. It's so exciting. Right now we share an office with actually four other startups. The collective energy is so interesting, just watching teams work together and just the steam coming off [laughs] the teams. It's exciting, and some of the things they talk about doing I think are impossible. I'm amazed at how those can be executed. Lucy: Well, now Stephanie, you mentioned your mother as having influenced you, really built your confidence, took the fear out of approaching technology and understanding it. Who else has influenced or supported you on your entrepreneurial career path? Stephanie: There are so many. I wish I had time to name them all. I can tell you the very first person who helped me grow as an employee or an executive or as a contributor to a team was by boss at Ericsson. Her name was Donna Campbell. She's a founder of Ericsson Cyberlab that was Ericsson's Digital Innovation Center. Donna had a very good and healthy way of looking at growth. We have a job that we have to do to make the trains run on time every day, but beyond that take time to learn more about this exciting new area that was mobile Internet or this new thing that has been so undefined because Telco previous to that the only content that existed was voice conversation, that people were talking to each other. It was just a voice channel. Then we were really looking at this next generation, which included data applications, content, anything. While we had all of our jobs to, what we would say, make the trains run on time, whatever that job was, she really challenged us to always think about learning about this new space and helping to define it. I sometimes even just with our team or our employees, I think I hear her voice in my head encouraging them to be as creative and also forward‑thinking and less constrained, that all ideas are really good ideas. Larry: I'm curious. With all the things you've done so far, not only with Ericsson but now with this newer type startup, what's the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career? Stephanie: [laughs] To be perfectly honest, it's probably less about my career itself and more about my personality. But I really believe that the toughest thing was really to learn to listen. That is in a big organization. That's with your own staff, employees, and partners, with your customers, with anything. I mean it's very easy to believe that you know what is the right way and to feel confident in your decisions and to try and push those things forward if you have a little bit of a bulldog personality, which I have. Still, I think the hardest thing for me to do is to really take a step back and realize that not only are all opinions really interesting and can spark new ideas for a collective group, but that you have to pay attention to what people are saying, and really listen. While that shouldn't be a tough thing in a career path, I think it adds growth as a human being, and applying that to my career. It's something I also believe that Donna really taught me, was that while maybe in the end your way is the right way, there are five, ten other people who can contribute and make it a better thing. Larry: Stephanie, we love your candor. Lucy: I have to say that this is such an important point. I can remember when I worked at Bell Labs that we took some amount of our imagination from "Rolling Stone Magazine." Who would figure? Stephanie: Right. Very cool. Lucy: Yeah. Around what we were doing with multimedia communication interfaces, and it came through this person who was sitting on the beach one day reading "Rolling Stone" on vacation. He brought the idea back to us at the Labs, and we at first didn't listen to him. Then we read the article. [laughter] Stephanie: It's interesting when you're really thinking about working through multimedia and technology, it's very easy as technologists to come from, "Well, this is the way it should work." It's really hard to think about, these are the other people on the value team, the people who create music. When you're thinking about all pieces of the value chain, it's really easy to focus on the technology. It's hard sometimes to remember that not only are, maybe, music companies involved, or people who listen, or all the other pieces along the way, to really bring them together. It's sometimes hard to get out of the tasks that we're doing today and think about the holistic view of the ecosystem. Lucy: I'll tell one other quick little story. At Bell Labs, in my organization, we finally realized that the Internet was real when a woman appeared on "The Donahue Show." Remember "The Donahue Show?" Stephanie: Yes. Lucy: OK. The sensation, of course, much more plain than it is today on some of those shows, but the sensation was that she was getting divorced because she had been talking with some other man on the Internet. They did a whole show. [laughter] Lucy: Stephanie, if you were sitting here with a young person and giving them advice about entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them? Stephanie: I actually think that the best advice I could give to anybody would be to take time to learn, to go and do internships, to find the salty dog in the organization who isn't always the oldest person in the organization, or the person who might be a little contrarian. Find those people and really learn about how you can work with them and how you can support them in all of their issues. I think internship is so important. I think coming to an organization with ideas is amazing. I think learning to collaborate and gain consensus amongst a huge number of people who are key influencers within the organizations are really, really good ways to learn how to contribute. I think becoming an intern in a larger organization, or even a smaller organization, and then making sure you touch all points of that organization, gives you a view of how an entrepreneur has to live. Some days I write business cases. Some days I do contracts. Some days I deal with end users. Some days I deal with angry clients on our side. Some days I'm troubleshooting why the applications have bugs in them. Really taking time to learn all of the aspects, all of the people in an organization, helps later to learn what it's like to be this utility person, which is all entrepreneurs. Some days you're accounting and some days you're dev, and all places in between. I think the best exposure is either (A) working in a big company where you intern, or working side by side with other entrepreneurs who pick up the six different hats a day, or even in an hour. Larry: I know a coming out of Ericsson and all, and that was great experience, but what is it about you personally that gives you the advantage of being an entrepreneur? Stephanie: I think I mentioned this a little bit earlier, but I am a little bit of a bulldog. I think when people say that people are like their dogs, I have a very, very, very adorable and stubborn French bulldog named Weesie. I think we share some characteristics, in that when we I want to do something, or think that it's something that is good for the company, or for end users, or for the organization, I can't let it go until we get there. Whether we have to take five different routes to get to the same place, I really think that having a vision and sticking to it, but not sticking to how you get there, is really important in being an entrepreneur. To be flexible and learn how you can do it differently, or any of those things is really important, but just owning what you want to do and, hopefully, the outcome is really important. I think as a characteristic, and while I don't necessarily want to be considered a puppy with a sock. I am sometimes gnawing on that sock until we really can get to the vision. We're flexible enough to think that the vision can change over time and evolve. Definitely, especially within Rogue Paper, because this is a business we wanted to build, to make TV exciting for viewers, but then also just to help media companies to engage with their users and also to drive their core business, which is broadcast advertising. Really thinking about how to keep bringing eyeballs back for them. We'd done a few things to get it to change as time goes on. But I think definitely we always stick to this vision that we really think mobile can help drive traditional media. Lucy: I think it's great advice to think about sticking to your vision and being flexible with the way you get there. That's a powerful piece of advice. Changing gears just a bit, you're very busy, obviously. You're working hard on your company. I'm sure you have a wonderful set of friends and family around you as well. Larry: And a bulldog. Lucy: And a bulldog. [laughter] Lucy: How do you bring balance into your personal and professional life? Stephanie: It is very difficult. It's one of the bigger challenges, I would say, that most entrepreneurs have. I think the most successful are those to whom work is play, to some degree. If you love what you do and it bleeds into your personal life, it's not necessarily a hassle to do that. It's still that you're so excited about what you're doing and you're consistently thinking about it. In that way, there is not a huge difference in work life in terms of happiness. It's exciting to work at work, it's exciting to think about it afterwards. But it's interesting. Every company has growth phases. There's an innovation phase. You go through these big bursts of time when the focus gets really hard. I have an agreement with people in my personal life that in those two or three months, or in this growth phase, that I might be checked out a little bit. Then after that period goes, or after we solve a big problem, then I'm back at the dinner table and being an active participant in life. I would say it's not a burden on me, but it can be lonely for the other people in your life. Fortunately, the bulldog doesn't really notice as long as you throw the ball. [laughter] Stephanie: But it is a challenge. It's something that I watch people do around me. My business partner and co‑founder, she works nine hours a day full time, really hard during those times. Then she's able to really turn it off afterwards. It's something that impresses me and I admire, but at the same time, my brain is going at all times. I don't necessarily turn it off as well, or go as intensely during the day, but it is definitely one of the bigger challenges. But I would say in partnership, we just have to have agreements that this is a head sound period and I'll be back in two weeks, and a better participant. Lucy: I think that's an important point, that you can in fact give the people who are around you a heads up that this is going on and that you will be back. Stephanie: Right. I think it's definitely something that I learned through relationships and friendships, that what was scary was just going away, even though I knew I'd be back. Lucy: Right. Exactly. Just that simple communication seems like a pretty good tool for one's tool chest. Stephanie: It's not acceptable to miss birthdays and big events, but for the daily check‑ins, or the high‑intensity communication, I just kind of wave my hand and say, "OK, I'll get back to you in a couple of weeks. We're really powering through something." Larry: Stephanie, you might want to check with your mother before you answer this next question. [laughter] Larry: That is, you've already been through and done a great deal. What's next for you? Stephanie: Rogue Paper is actually my third business. The first one is really focused on technology. I actually taught Pilates and had Pilates studios. My life has changed in these big ways. Going back to what we were talking about earlier, that was a system. Pilates is a system, the human body is a system. I was always intrigued by that. This technology, co‑viewing and television, it's applying the same framework to a different type of thing. I would say I'm so excited about Rogue Paper. We're still just about a year and a half old. I feel like we're just really at the precipice of some really interesting things that we can do for media companies and for users. I think mobile penetration is really getting bigger. It's hard for me to think about too much of the future. Maybe I'm a little too comfortable with ambiguity, but I feel like there's so much I want to do now that is at the intersection of mobile media and entertainment. We're really excited about growing. I'm sure my mother would say, "children." Larry: [laughs] Very good. [laughter] Stephanie: "Grandchildren." Lucy: [laughs] Thank you so much for talking to us. You have such a great company, very interesting work. We wish you the very best for the future. We'll be watching, both from a business perspective, and probably we'll be using your technology as well. Stephanie: That is so exciting. Lucy: Yeah. Really. Thanks very much, Stephanie. I want to remind listeners that they can hear this interview at w3w3.com, and ncwit.org, as well as all the other interviews that we've done. Larry: You betcha. Thank you very much, Stephanie. Stephanie: Thank you. Have a great day. Lucy: Thank you, Stephanie. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Stephanie BoyleInterview Summary: As a self-proclaimed “TV-holic,” Stephanie Boyle founded Rogue Paper, Inc. to use mobile applications and technology to help enhance traditional media broadcasts and create an engaging double screen experience for viewers. Release Date: August 29, 2011Interview Subject: Stephanie BoyleInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 22:06

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Sarah Lipman CTO, Power2B Date: August 15, 2011 [musical introduction] Lucy Sanders: Hi this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWHIT or the National Center for Women and Information Technology. Were working hard to make sure that more girls and women are pursuing computing education paths and careers. This interview series is extremely important to us. Were interviewing fabulous entrepreneurs, women who have started technology companies and asking their advice about entrepreneurship. Were very excited about this series. Today were going to interview a technical visionary, I'm very excited about this. With me is Larry Nelson w3w3. Hi Larry! Larry Nelson: Hi. I'm really happy to be here. I always like visionaries especially in this area. Anything we can do as it relates to business, technology and women getting into technology really turns me on. Lucy: Well listeners will be able to find our interviews at ncwit.org as well as w3w3.com. The technical visionary that we are interviewing today is really big into 3D Technology and the human interactive interface. Her name is Sarah Lipman and she's the cofounder and CTO of Power to Be. These interfaces I'm sure our viewers know are so important and there really such leading edge technology happening there. I've brought along the Power to Be mission statement. This is awesome I think we should adopt this as our mission statement. "Power to be is a creative workshop dedicated to generating radical innovations in human experience at every level of daily living." Larry: I love it! Lucy: I know that Sarah will have a lot more to tell us. Part of what they've done is a innovative patent around 3D touch-screen technology. Their beginning to imagine certain interfaces for these devices where they can actually look at natural body language, and present things based on Larry sitting up straight. [laughing] Just based on how you are behaving. Sarah welcome were very happy to have you here! Sarah Lipman: [over the phone] Thank you. I'm really excited to be with you. Lucy: What's going on at Power to Be, give us a sense about that? What are you up to? Sarah: Power to Be is unbelievable. It's a technology that replaces the traditional touch-screen. It's a fraction of the price. It provides coordinates not only in the x y plane, meaning when you touch the screen, even when your not quiet touching the screen. So it can track you before you even touch the screen. An easy way to envision the difference is if I were sitting across the table from you and you saw me reach for a salt shaker you might push it towards me, because you could see me coming. You don't need me to touch the salt shaker to know that's what I'm aiming for. If your smartphone or your tablet or your laptop or your TV could see you coming, then it can start bringing you what you wanted even before you start touching it. Given the amount of data, number of applications, the amount of content that were holding on even very small devices is a very profound change and how we can interact with our content. Lucy: That is really interesting. Before I get into the first question about how you got into technology, tell us a little about other technologies that you see that are cool. As a technologist it's a especially interesting question to ask you. Sarah: Certainly the whole issue of embedding sensors into all kinds of devices and products and objects. So that they can be more aware of us and responsive to us. That device to device communication, so it can be passed along, I think we haven't even began to scratch the surface of what we could create. Now I'm not talking about sentient computing or anything like that. Just devices that can be intelligent. They can see what your doing and understand where your going. Lucy: Wow, that's amazing. Is that the same kind of technology that you might start to see in buildings and so forth? Sarah: I think it's just going to be everywhere. In buildings, it's going to be in coke cans, it's going to be in laptops and cell phones and makeup and refrigerators. It's going to be everywhere! Because there's no reason why with all the data we give off in terms of body language, in terms of intention, in terms of history. There's no reason to still be using the old algorithms of algorithm principles for predicting peoples behavior. You don't need to predict it based on statistic's, predict it based on what the persons doing now. You'll have a lot more accuracy and it'll be much more fluid. That kind of magical feeling when something just works right. Lucy: For you! Larry: Yeah I Love it! Lucy: I love it! OK, so one more technology question then will get into the interview. Tell me about makeup? Sarah: [laughing] That was just a generic example. I certainly would not mind my makeup reordering it's self when it got low. Lucy: Me too! Sarah: [laughing] I have traveled all over the world, like alot. There was a long period of time were I traveled every four weeks or every six weeks. I used to pick up makeup foundation in different countries and it never matched. In the middle east it had this present undertone and in japan it would have this white undertone. I went crazy, it's like stupid things that's what the Internet's for! No I could never catch up with what I needed. [laughing] Lucy: [Chuckling] That's amazing Larry: I bet it'll even cover up spots that you've miss. Sarah: [laughing] Larry! Lucy: That would be good too! Sarah, why don't you tell our listeners a bit about how you first got into technology? Sarah: I was so excited by this question! It made me really think "What's my first memory of technology?" It's a Rotary phone. The rotary dialed, this old lady came in, installed it, put our number inside and I was so fascinated I must have been three years old. I spent hours playing with the rotary dial, trying to figure out how it work, how it dialed. Why when you dialed the two it didn't take very long, when you dialed the nine it took forever to get it back to being able to do that. That whole product, that whole interface is just so fascinating to me! Then in first grade, I was having these conversations with friends about why these new touchpad's had a pound key and a asterisk, speculating about what they may be for. One friend said, "In the future it'll let you call somebody back if the numbers busy when you dial!" That was just so far out it was hard to believe. Then calculators keypad goes the opposite way of a phone keypad. I'm just so excited that you asked this question, it's the first time I've realized I've gone full circle! I was fascinated by phone interface when I was three years old, I'm still fascinated by it now. I'm totally memorized, I guess I never really changed. Lucy: Who knew the rotary phone would have such a impact? Larry: That's a fact! And then remember... Sarah: [laughing]: Yes! Who remembers rotary phones? Lucy: Oh I do! My background is at AT&T, I used to program software. I don't even want to go into that! Sarah: My husband used to have an auto-dial made of toothpicks. Larry: Woah! Sarah: Hold it under a little clicker and it would go "tick tick tick tick!" Auto-dial! Phone interfaces are fantastic. I have a whole collection of mobile interfaces, old phones like Nokia! Around the turn of the century they had these fabulous interfaces that looked funny with the keys all over the place, styluses you name it! I've got some funny example of it. To me it's both entertaining, educational and indicative of an industry of that's still trying to figure out exactly what the best interface is, test function. Larry: Now what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick? In fact why did you become an entrepreneur? Sarah: I think I didn't have a choice. [laughing] I kind of see an entrepreneur as someone who see's where there is a problem or a gap or a hole, understands what it really needs to be like, and really wants to make it be that way. That kind of excitement, that vision of I'm going to complete the world, I'm going to fix the world. That's me! You've got to be excited enough to jump in, get involved, take risk, push ahead and not be too worried about obstacles because you know that there is an end result and you know what it is and it is totally worth it. I'm an entrepreneur that way. In terms of I see a vision, I see what somebody or a something that could really be that has this amazing potential and I just want to make sure that it really happens. Larry: That's great. Lucy: Well, in along the way, Sarah, who or what influenced you or supported you as you went down this entrepreneurial career path. Sarah: Definitely my husband because I would not be an official entrepreneur if it was not for his business and market vision really has been the force behind that whole side of let's turn this turn into a business. And we have had a couple of just amazing advisors and mentors who believed in us. They reached out to us even before we asked them and helped us turn what was a vision and had a belief and faith in what we were doing into professional skills required and know how and who to talk to and how to do it. Notably I would say Ken Dweeble whose is now a CEO at Coria who was previously CEO at Power to Be and even before that was a personal mentor, Hansel Baker whose is now a Techsports product development. Both of them just had profound impact on us Larry: Well with all the different things that you have been through and it's great that you have had powerful people behind you and working with you but what is the toughest thing that you ever had to do in your career? Sarah: Fire an entire lab of wonderful people, wonderful employees when we had a investment poll during the stock market crash in 2008. It was horrible to do it. Everyone understood why, there was no money for salaries for them but in that economic environment we knew it would be hard for them to find their next job, for at least a while. It was just awful. Lucy: I know, I can feel it in your voice. Sarah: Yes, it was horrible. Lucy: Well, it is horrible I think that those things happen. Sarah: Thank God they all are well employed now and are doing great but... Lucy: I'm sure they have top skills. Sarah: They are a great team. Lucy: Absolutely. Well, if you were sitting here right now with a young person and giving them advise about entrepreneurship, what would you say to them? Sarah: First of all I would say if you are person who likes to get things done and likes to make things happen, then starting your own company is your dream job because you can just do it and make it happen. That said, a lot of people are very vague about their ideas. They kind of sort of have some idea and they don't have that clarity, vision or focus. And that is what you need to cultivate. That is what all the business planning is about. You got to push your self. Clarify your vision, what are you trying to achieve, what is the objective, what is going to look like and you got to make it that you can share it with other people. So I would say pitch and present as often as you can to anyone who would listen to you. Presentations, articles, drawings, whatever, be on panels and then listen listen listen to the feedback that you are going to get because you have got to keep learning every minute and that combination of pitching and pulling out and then listening and pulling in, that's how you are going to make it happen. Larry: You know, it's great that your husband was one of that power force behind you becoming an entrepreneur, what are the personal characteristics that has given you the advantage of becoming an entrepreneur. Sarah: [laughter] First of all, I really think that being a mother gives you important experience. What it means to be completely committed to a project, to be willing to put in a 22 hour a day. Larry: [laughter] Sarah: ...Without looking at a paycheck or worrying about your overtime. So I am a serial mom-entrepreneur. I have a large family but I am like that with everything. You know there is a kind of save the world mode in me is a lot stronger than what is in it for me mode.I do think that helps me put a 100 percent to my work even though success with the start up is down the line thing, it's not immediate so I guess what I'm really saying is that you have to love what you are doing. You have to love doing it now and not just be looking out for the money that the success might bring you down the line. So startups are an uncertain universe but if you love what you are doing now then it will be satisfying. Larry: Boy that's a fact. Being a father of five I can relate to what you have said. Lucy: And picking up on your answer about how being a parent really teaches you important business lessons for sure, what do you do, how do you manage to bring in the balance in your personal and professional lives? Sarah: You assume I manage. I don't think I manage well enough. Lucy: Well you must be doing something right. Sarah: But I do, I have found this kind of like using a lot of the business skills has been helpful at home as well. It was vice versa but it also works the other way. So kind of [inaudible] to say what do I need to achieve right now, what do I need to achieve in the next two hours of really being with my family so trying to be very focused in that. What is the number one thing I'm trying to do and that helps me not to look at my computer, not check the black berry. Really listen to my kids, to my family, talk to them, be there with them, I find that those skills are kind of across the board and it has been helpful. Lucy: I think that is an incredibly important advise. It really is around do the next important thing well. Sarah: Yes. 100 percent. I know everyone loves to talk about multi tasking, I'm not a believer in it... Lucy: I'm not either. Sarah: I was in a meeting with Nokia several years ago, and one of the guys said here we call it continues partial attention. [laughter] Lucy: That's great. Sarah: Yes, exactly. Continuous partial attention is not satisfying for your children, your babies or your husband or your project or your presentation when you are not 100 percent in the moment, everyone knows it and they feel neglected and you can't run a business that way so yes I believe in multi tasking more as task switching. You got to be really good at rapid task switching but not all at one time. Lucy: Yeah that's a fact. Larry: Exactly. Sarah, you have been through a great deal, you have a growing company. What's next for you? S arah: Oh gosh. I'm empowered to be always next, it's so exciting. It's the potential to change the entire mobile industry. I know that I am very privileged to have the opportunity to be part of something that grand and it's not everyone's chance to be part of something that huge. I also founded Keyshore which is a professional network for religious women in Israel. It is a big success. I just left Israel and I put the project into wonderful good hands. Keyshore is in need of workshops and conferences. It has become a big player in the national scene and just bringing women. First class business marketing strategy skills for their business. That's what we do and it has been fantastic so I'm a big believer in changing the world one moment at a time. That is the most satisfying thing. It's kind of like multitasking versus task switching. One person at a time, you change a lot of people. I have a folder of 20 or 30 more projects that I want to get launched. I want to make it happen. You know, technology and education. Usually a combination of the two...Wow. I see myself fully booked for the foreseeable future. Lucy: And that is very good for all of us to know because I'm sure it's going to have a wonderful positive impact in the future as well as what you have already done. So thank you very much for talking to us, Sarah, we really appreciate you working on a very very cool technology and we gonna want to keep a close track of it because I'm sure it's going to as you said, really change. So thanks a lot for being with us. I want to remind the listeners where they can hear these pod casts once again, w3w3.com and ncwhit.org. Thank you so much. It was great talking to you. You have such a great philosophy and best of luck with your company. Sarah: Thank you and continue success with NCWHIT. It's such an important initiative. I'm so happy to be a tiny part of it. Lucy: Well thank you very much. Larry: Thank you Sarah. We will have you website, powertobe.net up also. Sarah: Thank you so much. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Sarah LipmanInterview Summary: Imagine sitting at a table and reaching for the salt, and the person next to you pushing it towards you so that it's within your reach. Now imagine a touchscreen technology that, in the same way, anticipates what you're trying to do even before you touch it. This is Power2B. Release Date: August 15, 2011Interview Subject: Sarah LipmanInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 16:43

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Victoria Ransom Date: August 1, 2011 [music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women in Information Technology. With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi, Lucy. We are so excited to be a part of this series. At W3W3.com we support technology as well as business, and we have a particular interest in what we can do to help promote women and young girls into technology. Lucy: Well, and this is a series of interviews with fabulous entrepreneurs who have started tech companies. They have a lot of great advice for our listeners, and so we'll get right to our interview today. We're interviewing Victoria Ransom, who is a serial entrepreneur. She has a very impressive track record. She has started three companies, all of which are operating today. That's very unusual. Larry: [laughs] Yes, it is. Lucy: And her existing company has been profitable after just one year. It totally blows my mind. [laughs] Larry: Wow. Lucy: It's such a great accomplishment, and she is an adventuresome spirit as well as being a serial entrepreneur. She once spent over a month living with a remote Amazonian tribe, so we won't let her off this interview until she tells us what that was all about. Today she's the founder and CEO of Wildfire Interactive, which helps organizations leverage and engage millions of users of the social networks such as Facebook and Twitter. Basically what they allow people to do is leverage the power of the social networks to do things such as branded campaigns, sweepstakes, contests, or giveaways and really getting into that viral nature of the social web. So it's not only the campaign, but they also provide tools and analytics so you know if the campaigns are successful or not, which is really important. Larry: I love it. Lucy: Yeah. So Victoria, welcome. Victoria Ransom: Thank you very much. I'm excited to be involved with this. Lucy: Well, tell us a little bit about what's going on with Wildfire. It seems like a lot. Victoria: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, it has been a wild ride. We only started the company three years ago, and for the first year it was pretty much my co‑founder and I and a couple of engineers. Then once we launched our product, it really took off, which we launched the product officially in August of 2009. So really about two years ago. We hit a real need at the right time. Within the first month we had hundreds of customers, like you said, reached profitability, and now we've got tens of thousands of paying customers. We've got over 140 employees. [laughs] So it has been a really busy, busy time. In terms of what's new or what's happening at the moment, we actually just launched a pretty expanded version of our product. So the introduction that you gave about Wildfire is very accurate in terms of what we started out in terms of what our original product was, which is a social campaign builder that makes it really, really easy for companies to launch different kinds of social media marketing campaigns like contests, sweepstakes, give‑a‑ways, coupons, group deals. All sorts on different social platforms like Facebook, Twitter, and others we select as well. But we've now expanded really to create what we consider is a software product that helps companies with all aspects of their social media marketing. So we are within that suite of tools. We have a product that really helps companies, like a content management system for their social properties like their fan pages, for example, helps them create really engaging content, edit it, change it, review the performance, the analytics, et cetera, which is really important because one thing that I think companies forget is that we can't just launch a Facebook fan page and put up some content and then leave it because then why would anyone ever want to re‑engage with you? So we have that product. We have a messaging product that really helps you understand what your friends and followers saying about you, helps you communicate efficiently with them, respond to them. Then a really robust analytics dashboard that helps companies understand not only how well are they doing with their social media marketing, but how do they compare to their competitors? How do they compare to their industry? So that's been a pretty major expansion on our product, which we're getting really great feedback on and yeah, a really, really strong response to, which we're very, very excited about. Lucy: Larry, maybe you could use it for your fan page? Larry: Boy, I love it. Lucy: [laughs] Larry: I like that idea. Victoria: Absolutely. Let me know. [laughs] Lucy: OK. Well, so Victoria, you have a very interesting background, and our listeners always want to know how entrepreneurs first got into technology. So why don't you just spend a few minutes and say what led you to technology? Victoria: Sure, absolutely. It's worth noting that I didn't study engineering. I'm not an engineer. I didn't have a tech background originally, so I think it's important that people realize you don't necessarily have to be a technical person or an engineer to start a technical company. Basically my first foray into technology or into software development was, of course, I think about five or six years ago when my co‑founder and I were running an adventure travel company called Access Trips. We had I think about over 30 trips in 18 different countries. We'd scaled that business up so that we had many, many clients. We got to the point where the tools that we were using were just not efficient enough for us to be able to manage all those clients. So we felt that we needed some kind of software to help us collect deposit, collect remaining balance, send out travel information, collect flight information. All the things you need to do when you run a travel company. We needed software for that. We couldn't find anything on the market, so we decided to build one ourselves and in all honesty made all sorts of mistakes with that. It was a good time building software, and I think there were some really classic mistakes that we made but learned a lot from it, which was great next time around. But also found that we really, really enjoyed that process and realized that to build a good software product, yes, you need engineers and good ones. But also you really need to understand a business problem. You need to be able to map it out, understand the processes, and just have a really good intuition for how you can create something that's simple and easy to use and really found that I enjoyed that process a lot. So that was the first foray into technology, really. Larry: Wow! Now Wildfire, that's your third go‑around as an entrepreneur. What is it about entrepreneurship that really turns you on, and why did you become an entrepreneur? Victoria: Well, again I think the first dipping of my toes into entrepreneurship, it wasn't that I was from age 11 I always knew I'd be an entrepreneur. I hear a lot of people that tell those kinds of stories. They had a lemonade stand from the time they were six. Actually, I hadn't intended entrepreneurship as a career. When I graduated college, my first job out of college was in investment banking actually. What I discovered is I just wasn't passionate about it, and I said, "OK, this moment, if I've got the rest of my life ahead of me and work is going to be such a big part of that the rest of my life, I really want to find something that I'm really passionate about." So I decided to move on from investment banking, and actually that's when we founded Access Trips. But in all honesty I think the initial idea was, "Well, let's create this travel company. We can do that for a year or two while I figure out what I really want to do with my life," and just found that I absolutely loved the process of building a company. Once you get your toe in the water of entrepreneurship, it's hard. It's pretty addictive because if you like it, it's just such a challenging, wonderful, exciting experience. So for me what keeps me in it, I think first of all is I just love the fact that I am having to wear so many different hats, and I'm challenged in so many different ways. One moment I need to think about our sales bridge, and the next moment I'm in a marketing meeting thinking about how we market the company. Now I'm involved with the product development and the product vision. I really drive on that level of challenge I think. It's just really exciting. So there are pros and cons to that because it's stressful, too, and you never have certainty about anything. On the same token, every day there is something exciting going on here, and it's really wonderful to have this big vision and goal that you're driving towards. Then the other thing I'd say, which is not the case when you first start your business, but when you start growing it and you build a team‑‑and like I said, we're now up to over 140 people‑‑what really motivates me today and inspires me is actually our team and the amazing people that are in the team and who are working so hard for the business. They're so fun to be around, and all of that is just incredibly inspiring and motivating and probably my favorite part of the business now. Lucy: Well, along that path to become an entrepreneur, who influenced you? What special people can you point to and a little bit about perhaps what they did? Victoria: In all honesty I haven't had one particular mentor that said, "This is what you should do. You should go into that." I think there are a lot of people along the way, once we got into entrepreneurship, who provided wonderful advice and wonderful help. But there wasn't one particular person in my life that put me on this path initially. Like I said, it was more the fact that what I'd been doing previously wasn't really exciting and so decided to try this path. But certainly there's been some wonderful people along the way that have helped advise us. Then there's other certainly companies that have helped shape the way we think about our business. I know Zappos has been a big influence in terms of just their dedication to their employees and their customers. Companies like Sales Force we've learned a lot from, just because they're such an incredible sales company. Mint is a company that we've learned a lot from in terms of their design. So I would say it is companies that have influenced us more than individual people. Lucy: Well I think that's one of the things that's so special about entrepreneurship, it does seem to be an ecosystem where people get advice and give advice and I think that it's maybe one of the best ecosystem for that that I know of. Larry: Victoria this is your third company, along the way I know we've had some of our businesses in the past be very successful, and some are learning experiences. What were the toughest things you had to do in your career? Victoria: As I said before, entrepreneurship is exciting, but it's like riding a roller coaster, so there are lots of ups and downs. So there's definitely been with all of my experiences of entrepreneurship, there's been some tough times where you really weren't sure things were going to work out. But in all honesty, the toughest things I had to do is actually letting go of employees. It is just not fun, particularly employees where actually they were really wonderful people, they just weren't a good fit for the company. It becomes pretty emotionally draining I'd say that's something I haven't enjoyed doing in my career in entrepreneurship but it is a very necessary thing and at the end of the day you will not be a successful start‑up unless you build an absolutely top notch team and every person in the company needs to be top notch. So it's one of those necessary evils that you have to do sometimes if you're leading a company. Lucy: Well, I think too that the people who are not a fit for the jobs they're in, most of them know it, it causes them a lot of stress, and they usually end up in a better spot. Victoria: We try very hard to make sure anything like that is a mutual discussion and a mutual decision, which certainly helps for both parties. Lucy: Well I think that's a great piece of advice and I'd like to follow along with that in terms of more advice around entrepreneurship. If you were talking to a young person today what would you tell them in addition to the things you've already said about entrepreneurship, what advice would you give them? Victoria: The advice that I can give and I have been given. I guess one thing is people should just be very critical about their ideas. So before they even jump in they should think very carefully about this idea that they had to start this company, it's so easy to fall in love with their idea, but I think people have to really ask "Why me and why now? Why am I really the best person to bring this idea to market and why is now a really great time to do it?" If you're working on some kind of idea and there's already three companies out there that are doing it, you've really got to be able to answer the question of what special talent or advantage do you have that is going to make you better those other three companies. Or if you've got an idea and no one's doing it then you've really go to ask yourself why is no one doing it? Why is now a particularly good time to start this business that no one's done it before? And if there's not a good answer to that, it may be that people haven't done that business before because it's not a good business, or they've done it and failed. So I think just being really critical; because some people just love the idea of being entrepreneurs and will try to latch on to something. That's OK because a lot of people will start a business and pivot, and that's OK too. I think being critical about your idea is important, another thing is that if you're going to start out with a co‑founder, then choose very wisely. I have an amazing co‑founder who we balance each other so well in terms of our talents and our abilities and our interest. I have talked to way too many entrepreneurs who at the end of the day are going to fail because they didn't find someone who is a good fit, match, and balance for each others skills. Another thing is I think we really benefited from in our business is just being really careful about the first people that you hire. It's easy when you're a small company to actually be glad that anyone's willing to work for you because all you are is basically an idea and a few people in a room. But those first people you hire really shape the whole culture and somewhat the destiny of the company, and I know for us the first hires we made we were really lucky. They were great cultural fits that helped us build a really great culture. Plus, they had really strong networks so they were able to help us in addition to our own networks really build out the team and really hire additional great people. So being very careful at those early stages, I think, is really important. Another thing, to be honest, is to be aware that entrepreneurship probably sounds more glamorous than it is. I would not want to be doing anything else; I'm having the time of my life but it's a lot of hard work and stress and the vast majority of start‑ups do fail in the end. So you've got to really believe you're going to thrive on the challenge and not the potential glamour of what it might be like if you happen to build a multimillion dollar company. Lucy: Now you see Larry, that's why she has three successful companies. Larry: That's right, and that's why I had 12, only not all successful. Victoria, with all of the things you've done and been through how do you bring balance to your personal and professional lives? Victoria: So honestly, this is an area that I'm not doing particularly well at, but kind of deliberately so. My feeling right now is this is an incredible opportunity that we have, to build this fast growing company, we're in a fast growing space and really I need to give it 100%. And so as a result I'm comfortable with the fact that work is everything at the moment and takes up a lot of my time. So I made that decision, and I'm not really trying to find a huge balance in terms of what requires balance. Having said that, try to eat well, try to exercise, try to take some time for friends and try to build in balance. But I would say the reality is, work takes up the vast majority of my time now. Lucy: Well, we've heard that from a number of the people that we've interviewed who also talk about balance, not just on a daily basis, but over periods of your life, and I think that really reinforces that statement as well. Well Victoria, you've done a lot, you've achieve a lot, you've had an interesting life so far and you're consumed right now in your company, but do you have any sense of what's next for you? Victoria: Right now it's very much just Wildfire. I've still got so much to achieve and I've got a big move‑in that we're going after. Truthfully, I haven't had a whole lot of time to even think about what could be next or when it might even be. For now, it's just very much focused on building this great business that I think we're on a wonderful path to achieve, but still have so much work to do. So for now it's pretty much living in the moment with Wildfire and thinking about the vision for Wildfire, but not a whole lot of focus on what will be after it. Lucy: Now, I'm going to go back in time, like I promised at the beginning of the interview, and ask you what were you doing in the Amazon? Victoria: It was an amazing experience. When I was in college, four other friends and I took a bus to pretty much where the road ran out in Venezuela, so basically the last town before you hit the Amazon jungle, and we managed to arrange with a local tribe that was in the village getting supplies, that we could travel back with them to their village. We spent seven days in their canoe traveling back to where their village was, every night we stayed with a different village, which was absolutely amazing. Then spent four weeks living in that village and participating in the life of living in the Amazon. So it was very remote and honestly, it is sometimes hard to believe that that world exists as the same time as the world that I'm living in now. It was an incredible experience. Lucy: What was your biggest lesson from that experience? Victoria: I guess part of it, it was just very humbling to see a civilization that's living in a very traditional way where I think a lot of people lived like that a thousand years ago, and how much things have changed here and what a happy society that was and what a happy community that was. I think another part, frankly, was just resourcefulness, it was pretty amazing, crazy thing that we did to just take a bus to a village and try to find a way to go deep into the Amazon and we were persistent and resourceful enough that we were able to pull it off. Which I guess you can pull right back into entrepreneurship, that you've got to be really resourceful and persistent if you want to pull off some amazing things. Lucy: It sounds like it was a great experience. Larry: You bet. Lucy: Indeed, Victoria. Thank you very much for your time. We really appreciated talking to you and I want to remind listeners where they can find this podcast series you can find it w3w3.com and also at ncwit.org. Thank you, Victoria. Larry: Thanks you very much. Victoria: Thank a lot. I appreciate it. Lucy: OK. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Victoria RansomInterview Summary: As founder & CEO of Wildfire, Victoria led the company to profitability in just one year and has built the company to tens of thousands of customers, over 100 employees, and five offices worldwide. Clients include major brands and agencies including Facebook, Pepsi, Unilever, Sony, AT&T, Ogilvy, Publicis and Digitas. Release Date: August 1, 2011Interview Subject: Victoria RansomInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 19:27

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Helen Greiner Co-founder and Chairman of the Board, iRobot Corp. Date: June 11, 2007 NCWIT Interview with Helen Greiner BIO: In the early days of iRobot Corp. (Nasdaq:IRBT), co-founder and Chairman of the Board Helen Greiner envisioned robots as the basis for an entirely new class of products that would improve life by taking on dangerous and undesirable tasks. Greiner's vision has been brought to life by products such as the iRobot Roomba® Vacuuming Robot, which has sold more than 2 million units to consumers throughout the world, and the iRobot PackBot® Tactical Mobile Robot, which is helping to save soldiers' lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. Greiner's nearly 20 years in robot innovation and commercialization includes work at NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab and MIT's Artificial Intelligence Lab, where she met iRobot co-founders Colin Angle and Rodney Brooks. Before founding iRobot in 1990, Greiner founded California Cybernetics, a company focused on commercializing NASA Jet Propulsion Lab technology and performing government-sponsored research in robotics. Greiner holds a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering and a master's degree in computer science, both from MIT. In 2005, she led iRobot through its initial public offering. She also guided iRobot's early strategic corporate growth initiatives by securing $35 million in venture funding to finance iRobot's expansion in the consumer and military categories. In addition, Greiner created iRobot's Government & Industrial Robots division - starting with government research funding leading to the first deployment of robots in combat in Operation Enduring Freedom. Currently, the division is shipping iRobot PackBot robots for improvised explosive device (IED) disposal in Iraq. In part because of the success of these initiatives, Greiner has helped enhance public acceptance of robots as one of today's most important emerging technology categories. Greiner was named by the Kennedy School at Harvard in conjunction with US News and World Report as one of America's Best Leaders and was recently honored with the Pioneer Award from the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI) in appreciation for her work in military robotics. Greiner has been honored by the World Economic Forum as both a Global Leader for Tomorrow and a Young Global Leader. In 2005 Good Housekeeping Magazine named her "Entrepreneur of the Year," and Accenture honored her as "Small Business Icon" in its Government Women Leadership Awards. In 2003, Greiner was recognized by Fortune Magazine as one of its "Top 10 Innovators of 2003" and named the Ernst and Young New England "Entrepreneur of the Year" with cofounder Colin Angle. Greiner won the prestigious "DEMO God" award at the DEMO 2000 Conference. In 1999, she was named an "Innovator for the Next Century" by Technology Review Magazine. Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I am the CEO of the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. This is part of a series of interviews that we are having with fabulous IT entrepreneurs, women who have started IT companies in a variety of different sectors, all of whom have absolutely fabulous stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs. With me doing these interviews is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry. How are you? Larry Nelson: Well, hello. Boy, am I happy to be here. Lucy: Why don't you tell us a little bit about w3w3 because these will be podcasts on w3w3 as well as on the NCWIT website. Larry: Well, just briefly, we started in 1998 before anybody knew what radio on the Internet was all about. And finally we learned a number of interesting lessons. We started doing podcasting a little over a year ago, so that's a big leap since then. We have been very fortunate to have a number of interviews with top‑notch heavy hitters, but after I saw the list that Lucy put together I was just absolutely stunned. Lucy: To really just get right to it, the person we are interviewing today is Helen Greiner. She is the co‑founder and chairwoman of iRobot. I have to admit up front that I am an iRobot stockholder, and Helen knows I am one of her best salespeople ‑‑ maybe not her best sales person but certainly one of her salespeople. Helen Greiner: I hope you are not just a stockholder, but I hope you are also a Roomba owner. Lucy: I am a Roomba owner. It's getting double duty now because we're doing a kitchen renovation, and we set it loose in the house at night to pick up all the dust and stuff so it's getting a workout, Helen. Helen: You'll be needing the Dirt Dog model for wash ups and construction areas. Lucy: Absolutely. Larry: We're going to have to have a link to all of these on the website. Lucy: Absolutely. We are really happy to have you here, Helen. We are really looking forward to talking to you about entrepreneurship. Larry: You know, I can't help but wonder: we have four daughters, and how did you, Helen, get really involved and interested in technology? Helen: Well, I think this is a common story in technology, but I was inspired by science fiction. I went to see "Star Wars" when I was 11 on the big screen, and I was enthralled by R2‑D2 because he was a character. He had a personality and a gender, and he was more than a machine. I was inspired to start thinking about, can you build something like that? As I was hacking on my little TSR 80 personal computer, obviously I had no idea just how complex it would be. Lucy: What are you thinking about those new mailboxes that are R2‑D2 mailboxes, Helen? Helen: I think they're pretty damn cool. Lucy: I think it's pretty cool. As a technologist you obviously look at a lot of different technologies. I am sure you have some on your radar screen that you think are particularly cool and compelling. Maybe you could share some of those with us. Helen: Well, of course, the coolest is robots because they are just on the cusp of adoption today. Other than the robots and ones that very well might feed into the robot, are large scale memories, multiple core processors, cameras on cell phones. Technologies as they go to mass market are getting cheaper and cheaper which enables them to be bringing them into other applications, like on the robots. Larry: I just want to make sure that the listeners do understand that you are talking about robots everywhere from the kitchen to Iraq. Helen: Yes. We have over two million Roombas out there in people's homes doing the floor sweeping and vacuuming. We have a floor washing robot, the Scooba, that you just leave on your floor and when you come back it's clean. We have a robot for the work shop called the Dirt Dog, and what most people don't realize is we also sell a line of robots for the military. Our Packbot model was used for the first time in cave clearing in Afghanistan and now is being used for bomb disposal over in Iraq. One of the neat new developments we have is we just put out a version of this with a bomb sniffing payload, so it can actually go out and find improvised explosive devices. Lucy: Well, I've heard you speak about the robots over in Iraq, and it's very compelling to know that we can use technology like this to really go on these types of missions instead of our young men and our young women. Helen: The robots allow a soldier to stay at a safe, standoff distance. He doesn't have to go into unnecessary danger. Lucy: Right. Helen: Our servicemen and women, you know, are exposed to a lot of danger when you send them to roadside bombs when a robot could do the job instead. We think that's really something that should be changed quickly, and it has changed very rapidly. Just two years ago they would suit up a soldier in a bomb suit and send them down range, and now you have to get permission to do that. The common operating procedure is to send a robot into the danger. Larry: That sounds like iRobot is doing everything from saving backs in kitchens to saving lives in dangerous situations. Let me see if I can migrate to the entrepreneur part of you. What is it that made you become, or why are you an entrepreneur? Helen: I was deeply interested in making robots into an industry. People have been talking about robots. They have been in science fiction for decades and decades. Yet, when I started in this field I looked around and there were very few robots that people could actually purchase and could actually use. When I was at the university at MIT the people worked on wonderful robot projects. It was really, really cool technology, but when the PhD got done or when the project ended, all of it would kind of stop and then somebody would start a new project potentially building on some of the results. But the actual robot that was built. many times progress stopped on it. Just like the computer industry, I believe it takes a company that can reinvest some of the profits back into the next generation and the next improvements on the products that really has started the industry to take off. Lucy: Well next the definition that I carry in my head of true innovation is taking research and the types of projects you are talking about, Helen, and driving them out into the consumer space and into the mass market. That is what innovation is all about. Larry: You bet. By the way, what is it about being an entrepreneur, what is it that makes you tick and turns you on as an entrepreneur? Helen: Being an entrepreneur is creating something out of nothing. You know, when you start it, it's all consuming. It takes your whole focus. It is very compelling to me. I tend to be someone who when they jump into something they jump into it with absolutely full force, and it allowed me to learn so much along the way. Everything from how to hire people, how to apply for and win a military research contract, how to raise venture capital, how to set up a management structure and, very recently, how to take a company public. Lucy: Helen, tell us, obviously, entrepreneurship makes you tick. You love to create things from nothing, and along the way as you chose this career path, who influenced you? What kind of mentors did you have? Helen: I have had a lot of advisors who I could talk to about the different stages of the business, and that's been an incredible gift. That is one of the most valuable things you can give: the benefit of your own experience. Early on I was influenced by my dad having founded a company, so entrepreneurship was part of my culture growing up. Larry: So, it's not genetic. It's part of the culture, right? Helen: I believe that. Larry: You, I'm sure, like all of us entrepreneurs ‑‑ you know, Pat and I, we have been in business together and entrepreneurs for over 30 years. There are a lot of bumps and things along the road. What would be some of the most challenging things that you have experienced? Helen: Well, iRobot has been in business for 17 years, and it's a lot different company today than when we founded it. Early on, this was a bootstrap company, credit cards filled to the max. Larry: So you made money right away? Helen: Yeah. Larry: You were profitable right away? Yeah. Lucy: Like many of us. Helen: No, we really had a bumpy beginning because in part the technology wasn't ready yet upon time. So we came up with a method to develop the technology and to develop business plans so when the opportunity was right we could capitalize on it. Lucy: So, as we shift a little bit now toward the future entrepreneurs, if you were giving advise to people about entrepreneurship, young people, about the career path you have chosen being an entrepreneur, what would you tell them? What advice would you give them? Helen: I would say, definitely do it, because it's probably one of the most rewarding career paths you can take. One of the most challenging, but one of the most rewarding. I would say very strongly, don't do it like we did it at iRobot. IRobot, we didn't do it with a business plan. We didn't start a real crisp idea of what these robots would used for. We basically started with the future of the technology and it happens to have worked for us, but it was a long haul in the early years. I think if I had it to do over again, it would be done a lot more efficiently. Larry: When did you finally get the real management team put together? Helen: In 1998 we decided to take venture capital for the first time. And that was a big decision because that's what took it from being more of a lifestyle company, somewhat of a research lab. Folks were building any kind of robot, because they were passionate about it. Some of them are quite frankly cool to a real business concern. You could almost consider the company a re‑start in 1998. It only took the first venture capital, which allowed us to invest in the management team and take it to the next level. Also to invest in our own product lines, rather than relying on government contracts coming in or strategic relationships with larger companies. Larry: Well, you have been very passionate about iRobots and you've also been very humble in terms of what you have done, what you have been through. What are some of the characteristics that maybe have been a benefit to you in becoming a successful entrepreneur? Helen: I'd say the biggest one is persistence. There will always be speed bumps along the way. And generally being able to say, OK, I might not have the solution to this problem right now, but I know that there's a way. And either by talking to people, getting advice, by brainstorming with people, by being creative, by thinking out of the box. There is always a way to get through any problem that presents itself. It's takes persistence to do that because you will get knocked quite a few times along the road. Being able to pick yourself up, dust off and say, I learned from that experience, I won't do it again. We don't look at anything at iRobot as failed. This got us to the next step and the next step was different, but they were all stepping‑stones to where we are today. And many of them were necessary. Larry: I have heard that persistence is omnipotence. Lucy: Sometime we refer to it as relentlessness. Larry: Oh, is that what that is. Lucy: Yes. I also have to say something about Helen how and just as a sidebar: Helen gives one of the best talks on robotics I have ever seen. Helen, your talk at the Grace Harper Conference was outrageously good. Helen: Oh, well I appreciate that. One of the things that I would like for folks listening to know that it is important to be able to grab the microphone and get your message across. My personal background is: I was extremely shy, terribly afraid of public speaking. You know, reports that people who would rather do anything else sometimes than get up in front of a group of people and speak. I was one of those people. It doesn't come naturally to me. But I recognized that it was important in getting the message of the company across. I really worked on how to improve and just by taking speaking opportunities I got better and better at it. Which doesn't mean I will ever be a natural just really, really want to jump out and do it. If I can do it, anybody can learn to be a better public speaker. So they can take advantage of the opportunities to get their message out that it provides. Larry: It might not be natural but you certainly are unique and passionate. Lucy: The best talk I've heard, a mix of computer science and business and humor, it's wonderful. Helen: That is very nice of you. It means a lot because I did have to work harder than people who are naturals, "Yes, I want the mike!" Lucy: One of the things that our listeners will be interested in. The entrepreneurial life is a tough life. It is a lot of work and yet it is important to bring balance between our personal lives and our professional lives. So what kinds of hints do you have to pass along? Helen: I don't think I'm a shining example of balance in my life, but I can say the philosophy I've always had is: work hard, play hard. So, when I do take off from iRobot, being able to go out snowboarding, being able to tight‑board, being able to go scuba diving. I'm just learning how to tight‑board. I have a goal to learn one new sport each year, because it's good to take up something new and to me I like doing it in the athletic arena. Lucy: Well, it sounds like fun to me. Larry: Lucy likes to go out there and jog every day after... Lucy: Well, you're right I'm not that good at it either, but I still get out there. Larry: I can't help but ask this. You know, you have had a very exciting and challenging ‑‑ and obviously with the persistence and the talent ‑‑ you really accomplished a great deal. I know you want to accomplish a great deal more with iRobot. What's next for you? Helen: Well, the challenges that iRobot faces today are different than when we were a start up company. Now we have over 350 people. In 2006 we did just about $189 million in revenues and now it's about making the organization click, to function as a team, and making sure that things work like clockwork at the organization, while still keeping that innovative flair, so you can get the next generation of products into the pipeline. Lucy: So, I have to ask, just because I love iRobot so much, what's the next great product? Can you spill the beans? Helen: I can't tell you what the next consumer robot products are, but on the military side, we have a hugely exciting robot that can run over 12 miles an hour, that can carry a soldier's pack. It's got a manipulator on it that can pick up a Howitzer shell. That thing picked me up the other day. Lucy: Oh. Larry: Wow. Helen: We're very excited to get that type of capability also into hands of our soldiers. Lucy: Wow, that's pretty exciting. Larry: Nothing like getting picked up. Boy, that's for sure. Lucy: I don't know what I would do if a robot picked me up, but I guess one of these days maybe we'll experience ‑‑ we'll get you to bring that to one of our meetings, Helen. That would be very cool. Larry: I'd love a picture of that for the website. Lucy: Yeah, thank you. OK. Larry: Helen, I want to thank you so much for joining us. We are so excited about this program. When we get to talk to people like you with your background and your experience, it makes it just that much more exciting and motivating to a number of young people. Helen: Well, I appreciate it. Lucy: Well, and we want everybody to know where they can find these podcasts. They are accessible on the NCWIT website at ww.NCWIT.org And along with the podcast, his information about entrepreneurism and how people can be more involved as entrepreneurs and also get resources on the web and also from other organizations, should they be interested. Larry: Yes, and thank you for all of the great hints and probably more than that, some really golden nuggets in there. One that's sticking out in my mind right now is the mass‑market adoption. I guess that is what we all want to charge for. Helen: It's not where we started out, but it is where we're fully focused at. Lucy: Well, thank you very much. Helen: OK, thank you. Have a good one. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Helen GreinerInterview Summary: Helen Greiner is co-founder and Chairman of the Board of iRobot Corp., maker of the Roomba® Vacuuming Robot (over 2M units sold) and the iRobot PackBot® Tactical Mobile Robot, which deactivates mines in Iraq and Afghanistan. Release Date: June 11, 2007Interview Subject: Helen GrenierInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 15:30

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Gillian Muessig President and Co-founder, SEOmoz Date: May 9, 2011 NCWIT Entrepreneurial Heroes: Interview with Gillian Muessig [intro music] Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of the National Center for Women in Information Technology, or NCWIT. I know our listeners know about our "Entrepreneurial Heroes" interview series, which is a great interview series with women who have started IT companies. This is another in that series. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi. I'm happy to be here, of course. We really enjoy the fact that everybody from parents as well as employers and leaders and managers, as well as teenage girls, listen to this show. Lucy: I think the person we're interviewing today is just an expert in search optimization. Everybody knows how important the Internet is, and how important it is to have your business, your organization, your personality, found by the most possible people. The person we're interviewing today is a real pioneer in that field, sometimes called the "Queen of Search Optimization." Larry: You betcha. Gillian Muessig: No, I think I'm called the "mom." I'm known as "SEO Mom." Lucy: SEO Mom? OK. Also a queen. We are very lucky to be interviewing today Gillian Muessig, the president and co-founder of SEOmoz. SEOmoz provides one of the world's most popular search marketing applications. The community it serves is huge, over 300,000 search marketers around the world. She also has a weekly radio show, "CEO Coach." This is really interesting to the people who listen to these interviews, because as part of that show, she's covering really important entrepreneurial issues around funding and finance and staffing and marketing and brand development. Welcome, Gillian. We're really happy to have you here today. Gillian: I'm delighted to be here. Thanks for asking. Lucy: What is happening with SEOmoz? Give us the latest. Gillian: The latest and greatest at SEOmoz. Well, I guess we're taking social signals much more seriously, as are the search engines these days. We are the creators of something called "Linkscape." It is a fresh web crawl of the World Wide Web. In other words, we have code known as "Bots" that run out along the Web itself and catalog the pages, just like Google or Microsoft or Yahoo! And so on, in this case Bing, it would be called these days. Similarly, we have a bot that goes out and crawls the Web. It's called, as I said, "Linkscape." It gives us the link graph of the Web. This means how all the pages are connected together with links from one page to the next. It's interesting stuff. It does not make us a search engine. A search engine can also give back answers when you say, "Gee, I'm looking for something. Where is it?" You could also give that back to somebody. That's what makes a full search engine. So if you think of Linkscape, you might think of it as kind of half a search engine. We know what is. Now, we are taking a look at the social graph. So while we crawl the Web for information about links running from here to there, we know that the social signals, which means the noise or the signals we hear on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Cora, Yahoo! Answers -- just thousands of other sites where people gather and talk to each other on the Web. Those are the social sites. When they get busy, the search engines notice, and that kind of information shows up in the search engine results pages, known as SERPs, Search Engine Results Pages. So that's what's new at SEOmoz. We're looking at the social signals and incorporating them into our platform. Lucy: That's amazing. There's so much information going on out there. Absolutely amazing. And great technology. The kinds of algorithms you're doing under the hood there just have to be really fascinating. Gillian: Yeah, they're pretty exciting stuff. If you think of the Google algorithm, I usually say, "Well, it starts somewhere in central Asia and it ends in Sunnyvale, California." It's really large, and it links 1's and 0's. That means it's changing constantly. What is it? 2,500 to 3,000 brilliant engineers are working on it at any given time. What they're trying to do is say, "Gosh, there's a lot of info out there. How would we catalog it and organize it to be on the Web?" And that's the world we deal in. Lucy: I know. Who would have thought it, even 10 years ago? Just amazing. Larry: Whew, not me. [laughter] Gillian: It's a very new industry, and that is one of the interesting things about the world of search. While some technology industries have been around for maybe 30 or 40 years, or much more, the Industrial Age certainly giving way to the Technological Age toward the end of the 20th century. The world of search is pretty much the oldest folks would have been practicing some '97, '98, '99, something like that, when the search engines became of age and became more important, and people began to find things on the Web using a search engine as opposed to using business card that sent them to a specific place. Lucy: It's really changed quite quickly. The historical perspective is fascinating and I think our first question is a little bit of a historical question. How did you first get into technology, Gillian, and what kinds of technologies do you see today that are really interesting to you? Gillian: When I opened my company, it was in 1981, I had one young child a two-year-old at the time. I subsequently raised three children under my desk. The youngest will tell you the color of the blanket he slept on under that desk, so I'm talking literally. I think in 1984, I was doing a consultancy basically, so glorified and employed. I was a consultant. I did traditional media marketing, everything from print media to a little bit of radio and television and so on, but regional stuff. In terms of print media, the first pieces of technology that we really saw came in the late '70's already, when type was no longer moved by pieces. Little slugs of type, and made out of lead, would be moved into place in big wooden boards, and that's how the articles of newspapers were created for advertisements and so on. When it moved from that manual process to something called code type, because the first one was Hocks type. You would actually move the little slugs into place and then melt them together. You would use heat to make sure that they were held together, and then you would break them apart for the next day's news. In this case it was called Cove type, and that was the first computerized type. Maybe that was the first time I got into technology, or really saw it affecting my industry. In 1984, I put a Mac II on my desk. I had more self-control than this advertisement that was coming out of Zenith said I would. It said, "We'll give you one of these Macs for two weeks. You pay us for it, but you can just bring it back and we'll give you your money back if you don't want it." I thought, "Well, I've got more self-control than that. I'm just going to take a look at this thing." Within two hours, of course, it owned me, body, soul and mind, and I never gave it back. [laughter] Gillian: The ad worked, and I bought a Mac. I used Mac for many years. I changed to PC I guess in the '90's. Just recently, we're talking within the last couple of weeks, one of my staff handed me a Mac Air, it's called the MacBook Air, and said, "You're going to love this! It's so lightweight." And I thought, "Really? Back to Mac? I'm an old dog. This is new tricks." [laughs] But yes, I do enjoy carrying it around, because I travel so much that having a very lightweight computer at my fingertips is really nice. So first technology would have been 1979. The First time I owned a real piece of it, if you will, in about 1984. The Web showed up in 1993. Perhaps what you were referring to before, kind of the Grand Dame of Internet marketing, because I was there six seconds before the next guy. In other words, it was just a wild and wooly time, and I was happy to be at ground zero. We had a great deal of excitement and ideas around it. I continued my business for a number of years, but certainly we were beginning to do things like offer websites to our clients, in which we were doing general graphics or advertisements, or perhaps annual reports and logos and that sort of design. We were now adding websites to that, and then we were adding better websites, because we had Flash. Then it was realized that the search engines were becoming more important, and search engines could not read Flash. A search bot is blind and deaf. It cannot see pictures, it cannot hear sound. So we had to go back to HTML and maybe incorporate elements of images and so on, and identify them. With that, search began. As a search engine became more important and required text to be able to find out what a document was about, we had to optimize a page. It meant you couldn't just put a picture on a page, because a search engine cannot see it. You had to tell it what that picture was. That, perhaps, was the very first piece of optimization. How we'd label pages, we'd say, "This page is about something. It's my website.com." Then you would put in a subject, you know, red cars. [laughs] And, "Oh! That page must be about red cars." The very beginnings of search engine optimization were very simple. Today it's a highly complex field. We don't even think of it as SEO. So answering the second half of your question, what do I find interesting in moving forward now? Certainly, we are deep into the information society, where information is power. It always has been, but it's just become more in the forefront. The concept of marketing has changed, both online and offline. It's changing the way we do business and the way we communicate. From governments to private corporations and individual human beings, we think of things now as inbound marketing, as opposed to push marketing. It used to be that I would make an ad, and I would kind of take a megaphone in whatever field I was in, whether it was print or radio or TV or whatever, and shout out to the world what I needed them to know. That's no longer acceptable. People don't like it. They never really did like it, but now they have choices. Now people want me to give them information when they want to see it, when they want to learn about it and when they are ready for it and in the way that they wish to see it. That means multiple-size screens such as iPhones, little phones, Android and things like that, cell phones, web-enabled cell phones, to iPad and similarly-sized screens to the next size, which is Netbooks and then laptops, to the huge screens that sit on our walls at home and sometimes cover entire walls. That would be 55-, 60-, and 70-inch television screens that also serve as interactive, Internet-capable products. I find that kind of technology fascinating and I think that's where we're headed in the future, a multi-sized delivery of information just when the consumer wants it. Larry: Gillian, thank you for sharing all that history. In fact, we are going to make sure that if people want to understand the history, they should come back and listen to this interview. Now why is it that you are an entrepreneur and what is it about an entrepreneurship that makes you tick? Gillian: [laughs] Entrepreneurship is a hereditary disease, not a profession. [laughter] I say to people often (I do a lot of coaching about entrepreneurship and I serve on the board of advisors of companies on four continents now) that entrepreneurship is something that you have to want, and you have to want it so desperately that you are willing to walk through what I call "the Dip." I know Seth Cotton talks about it. There's a fine little book called The Dip. But I see it slightly differently. The very short version is that in order to get to the other side of a chasm of all of the folks who are trying to do what you're doing and overcoming all of the impediments to success, you have to walk through this valley of the shadow of death. After that, we don't get quite that translation correct. It's not that "Yet I fear no evil". It's "If you fear no evil, you will not walk out." [laughter] So understanding entrepreneurship is: You have a great idea, and you decide you want to bring it to the marketplace, but you must walk through this chasm of impediments to success. And sometimes it gets very, very dark. I help entrepreneurs through that space quite often. It is not just that there are financial qualifications. For instance, one needs funding and that can be very difficult. Or perhaps one can fund it oneself, but are you willing to put at risk all of the monies required to do so? People will put their homes at risk. They will mortgage things and sell their vehicles and live with their parents and do all kinds of things in order to afford to make this thing fly. It's like throwing money at a passion. But in some ways it's very analogous to being addicted. You must do this thing once you get it going, right? Now the second piece is not financial stuff necessarily, but how everybody else looks at you. There are a number of entrepreneurs, some of them very amusing, who are radio personalities as well who will say things like the whole world will tell you that you are stark, raving mad. That there's no way you can do this, that it's not possible, and so on. And when all of that volume of voice and noise comes at you, do you have the fortitude to continue to walk and to say, "No, I know in my gut what I've got is right and I'm going to make it happen." Then the last piece would be the strength of this idea you have. If you're building it, for example, in technology and software, will this code hold up to what you need? If you have some kind of success, do your servers crash, do things begin to fall apart, can you do the customer service part, and can you do the company part and not just the idea part? What I say is that every truly brilliant company in the world has two parts. It has a technologist, a wizard, the brilliant idea person. And it has a business person. The business person's responsibility is to protect the wizard. If the wizard is thinking about anything else except what's next, you're losing money. Now any business person can make themselves a business. They can go sell shoes. They can go sell office furniture. They can do whatever they want. They make a decent business and sometimes they make quite a good one. Many, many technologists have brilliant ideas, but cannot for the life of them do the business piece of it. There are far more technologists who cannot succeed in business than there are business people who somehow cannot succeed at all because they don't have the brilliancy. But if you put the two together, you get something that is an explosion, an extraordinary universe of stuff that happens. And that's when you have these brilliant companies like Yahoo, Google, and so on. I was fortunate in my time to have such a technologist and to be able to work with him. I'm really in the end a business person. The technologist is Rand Fishkin, arguably the most famous name in search marketing today. I could build a brand around a human being. I could then build a brand around the company, and then the company has become very powerful in its field. Again, knowing your playing field is an important piece. But I have walked through that dip, that "valley of the shadow of death" when people told us this could not be done. I often say people who say that a thing cannot be done are often interrupted by those who are doing it. So, on October 6, 2008, SEOmoz interrupted a whole lot of people when we created this thing called Linkscape, which is a crawl of the World Wide Web. A whole lot of people said you have to be Google or Bing or whatever to do something like that. It cannot be done. It'll take ten thousand brilliant engineers and millions of dollars and you haven't got that. We did it. And when it was done, it powered all of our tool sets. So why am I an entrepreneur? It's because it's in my blood. It's because I see ideas. I can kind of put together a meal of products out of groups of intellectual properties, if you will. It's like throwing a bunch of ingredients on the table in the kitchen and coming up with a meal. It's like what Iron Chefs do. The same idea happens with entrepreneurship and it's what I do. I look at this collatinus collection of clattering junk and from it comes a product that is saleable. So that is what I think makes entrepreneurs what they are. It's the fortitude to move forward. It's the ability to see a jumble of ideas and possibilities and to create real product out of it. And brilliant companies or really brilliant entrepreneurs, those who have that partner technologist [inaudible 17:05. Lucy: So as an entrepreneur, Gillian, who supported you along this path? Do you have particular mentors or role models? What might you be able to tell the listeners about that? Gillian: Well, I think that's why I became a CEO coach, because there were precious few when I came through this path. I see that Rand, for example, who is now the CEO of SEOmoz, has a number of mentors who are coming to his aid and whom he has been able to seek out. But as we walked the very earliest days, there were things that I would have given my left arm to have known about. There were times when I would call practically a hundred people and not one of them could give me the answer I needed. So in a sense, I was not well-connected and I didn't have entrepreneurs who had been successful on at least one level larger than I was. I think there are very few when you are in the very, very early stages who will reach that hand out. You have to get through a certain barrier first. You have to reach some kind of critical mass before it gets recognized as a viable business and then you get those kinds of mentors beginning to take notice. So I decided that if I ever walked out of that valley, that's what I would do, that's what I would give back. That's why I do CEO coach every week. I don't get paid for this or anything. I promised that I would give answers, that I would name names and give numbers and tell people what to expect and help them to leverage the assets they had and to walk through that very difficult time when you are proving your concept and making it through to the other side. Of course, the scarcity is what makes success. If it were easy, if there were no chasm of all of these impediments-and I only mentioned three, but if it were easy to get from one end to the other, from brilliant idea to successful marketplace for everybody, then there would be no scarcity. Trust me when I say to people who are considering entrepreneurship, it's worth it. [laughter] Larry: I love it! Yes. Gillian: It is so worthwhile on the other side. The answer is, it is all the things that you would dream it would be. There is a certain amount of exclusivity. There is a satisfaction beyond anything else that comes from knowing you did it. Larry: Wow. With all the things you've been through, what's the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career? Gillian: Possibly two pieces and I think they're related. The very first one I had to learn to do was to move from being a consultant, a sole consultant, to being a real entrepreneur, somebody who had a company, who had people working with them, in other words, a team. I used to walk out, shake hands with somebody, and say, "Yes sir, I can do that," and go back and do it. That was easy. Whatever it was, it was easy. It meant I did it. I could rely on me and I knew my own mettle and I could trust me. The first time I walked out and said, "Yes sir, I can do that," and went back to the office and said, "I sure as shooting hope you folks can do that, because I can't," that was scary. To be able to rely on a team of people to do it as well as you would hope them to do because you cannot do a thing, that's entrepreneurship. That's really moving from being a sole proprietor to being a full-size company. The second piece was saying no to a customer, understanding that there are clients and client wannabes. They wannabe a client but they don't wanna pay. Client wannabees. Learning to recognize client wannabes in your business sector is terribly important, because otherwise they will suck the blood out of you and never pay for what they take. Generally they pay very low amounts, the lowest you will charge, and they take the most time. The less a client pays, the more hand holding they generally need. So understanding that you need to fire the bottom four clients on your list every year and make way for new ones who will pay you more, respect you more, understand the value of your service more and so on, that's a critical piece of success in moving forward in being a company. People who cannot let a client go regardless of how much this client fusses and complains and makes it a personal thing as opposed to a business thing and so on, doesn't recognize the value of the service, on and on and on. All of these complaints about the client, if they cannot let that client go they will forever be an individual consultant that's not terribly successful. Those who can get through it and understand the process become successful companies. Lucy: Along our discussion there have been so many characteristics that come across in your answers to these questions that I think make you a great entrepreneur. You're very thoughtful, very persistent. I think you're very funny, you have a great sense of humor and have a great sense of history and analytical, but what other kinds of personal characteristics do you think have given you an advantage as an entrepreneur? Gillian: I think that perhaps that is the most important question. I espouse and I truly believe that people should bring their personal values to the corporate marketplace. Separating them is not possibility and that we kid ourselves when we do it. It also makes for a, not just lesser, but a really foul business environment and I think for centuries we've experienced it. I hope that what I build is not perhaps the world's finest search marketing software company and this and that and the next thing, but another way to do business. Often it's known as theory X and theory Y management. Theory X management being all about the fix, about fear, about worrying about whether the boss is going to dislike this or deduct that or reduce your pay or fire you and so on and so forth. That's theory X stuff, screaming, yelling and so on. Theory Y is somehow coddling, if you will. All about the positive but I think there is more to theory Y than simply coddling or supporting and so on. I think it has to do with bringing your personal values to the corporate marketplace. As an entrepreneur I can't have a company unless I have people doing the things that my company produces whether it's product, service, consulting, whatever it is. They don't work for me, they work with me. Without me they have no job and without them I have no job. It's not that it's really different at all, it's just different roles within an organization. I recognize that there is no complete, flat equality. There is no such ideas, communism if you will. It is a hierarchy and certainly it was my money on the table, it was on my back that this thing got started, it was Rand's ideas and so on that made it happen. All of those things, so it does put a couple of founders in its place that is different than the employee status, if you will. On the other hand, we feel that we work with a team, it's not that the team works for us. When I didn't have two nickels to rub together, when we were having conversations that said things like, 'What will it take to keep body and soul together this week?' Like, who shall take a paycheck this week? When we were having those kinds of conversations, it was that bad, I would pay the medical insurance 100% in full first. I never even thought to give somebody a salary and let them choose whether or not they wanted medical insurance. It's part of the salary, it's part of the package, there is no choice because many of the people who work for me are very young and when you're very young you think you're invincible. Nothing is ever going to happen to you and you will live forever and life is good until somebody gets glioblastoma or somebody gets hit by a bus riding a bicycle to work in the afternoon, that's when things go wrong. It was incumbent upon me to say, "No. I know better, I've lived longer, I'm a parent." Never mind anything else and many of these people are young enough to be my kids, hence the word SEO mom but there were a number of reasons why I got called SEO mom but as a result it was my responsibility to do those kinds of things. So we pay 100% of medical insurance. We do kind of what they call platinum level medical insurance. we don't skimp on those kinds of things. Certainly we do things like tech companies to all over the place like the Googleplex will do and so on. We offer lunch here and breakfast there and something else and we celebrate things and it's a lot of fun But we actually walk the talk, if you look at the SEOmoz website there's something called TAGSEE, T-A-G-S-E-E. The first one stands for transparency, second letter, authenticity, the third, generosity and so on down the road, you can read all about it. We don't just say it we actually live it. We hire for personality first and then we look for skill sets which makes it difficult to find people because you can find a set of skills it's just, does it also come with the right kind of personality? I was talking about it with one of my staff this morning and I said, "You know, I think what happens here is very childlike or perhaps like going to the movies." We suspend belief when we go into the movies. We suspend belief every time we walk into this office. We are complete optimists. We should all have our own [inaudible 26:30] chapter here. We walk in and pretend that it's possible, that nothing is impossible and we do it every single day. We work and live and play with the people here, and they certainly do, they have all kinds of activities around the office and outside the office and just get together because they're friends as well. Because it's like souls, if you will, we all agree that you step into this room there is nothing we cannot do and doggone, we do it. Imagine what you can accomplish. I think that because we spend so much of our time at our workplaces, I know that we change jobs much more frequently than we did a generation or two ago but even still, for the time that we are all together it's much more than just a job. This is about fulfilling the soul as well as the business career requirements of the people who work here. I think of my job as giving everyone here wings to fly and then watch them fly. Larry: Gillian, with all the things that you've done, what do you do to bring balance to your personal and professional lives? Gillian: I guess that's kind of the answer I gave at the last question. Larry: Yeah. Gillian: I bring my personal life to life to the office. I don't think of it as work, I think it was Thomas Edison who said, "'I never worked a day in my life, it's all fun." When I was a little girl of three or four years old and I could turn the pages of a book I wanted to see this big wide world. I am the most fortunate person in the world. I get to run around the world as what's now known as corporate evangelist for SEOmoz. This is what happens by the way when they put you out to pasture. Before, I was the sole business person that was complementing the technologist that was Rand Fishkin. Rand is now the CEO, he has full reigns of the business, but there's only one strange relationship in business, and that's mother and son. You can't be a mommy's boy as a CEO so it was time for me to step way, way back. We have a COO here, we've got a CMO here, we've got a CPO, all of those C level executive places have now been filled and all of the things that I used to do, these eight and nine and ten hats, they're being worn by 10 and 12 and 14 people. If I was still doing all of them we would still be a tiny company. So it's important to seed the company, to let it grow and to let it expand. For me now, my job is to run around the world and make sure people say SEOmoz instead of SEO and so far so good, it's pretty cool. I get to be paid for this, what an extraordinary adventure. For me this balance of life and work and so on, it's fulfilling on so many levels. I'm, as I said, the most fortunate person in the world. Lucy: I noticed when we were researching for this interview that you have given lots and lots of keynotes and talks so you must be quite successful in your evangelist role. Gillian: Yes, I'd say so. I have somewhat of a reputation under SEO mom myself, if you will, under Gillian Muessig but I usually say, I don't go anywhere in the world, SEOmoz goes, it shows up in my body. Yes, I do a lot of keynote speaking, I do a lot of pro bono work and I support a tremendous number of entrepreneurs around the world and it's very gratifying. Lucy: Thank you very much for doing that. You've done so much with your career so far. I am suspicious that there's more to come so why don't you tell us a little bit about what's next for you. Gillian: Probably a book, a number of people are telling me it's time to do that so I have to knuckle down and do that but I think that's just in support of, if you will, a personal brand. I think the next thing, when I grow up, what do I want to be? The next thing that I will do is around entrepreneurship itself. I'm focusing more and more on it over the years. I have a serious interest in what you're doing essentially, in making sure that young women somewhere between the ages of 12 and 20 don't lose themselves and their souls in just societal expectations and norms, but do turn to the hard sciences, to technology, to science, to mathematics, to physics, all of those kinds of things and certainly to web related or intellectual property related fields. All of those things are terribly exciting. Women make very good mangers. They have traditionally not been part of it and I think whatever I do in the future will be helping to open the doors so that women can enter the marketplace in their rightful numbers if you will. We spend a tremendous amount of time in my childhood and youth as women working on those issues. It was the age feminism, it was the age of all of those kinds of rebellions and so on. We worked really, really hard guys but, gosh, we've got a long ways to go so rather than apologizing for the next generation, I think my next deal will be helping that next generation reach goals that we have only dreamed of. Lucy: Thank you for doing that and thank you for all of your hard work for entrepreneurship, in general. We'll look forward to staying in touch, it was great fun talking to you and I want to remind listeners that they can find this interview at w3w3.com and also ncwit.org. Larry: You betcha. Gillian: Thank you, it's been a great pleasure. If I have only one message for the young women listening, it's do it. Don't fear it, just do it. There's lots of women out there ready to extend a helping hand in making sure that you're successful, too. Lucy. Thank you. Larry: You betcha. Lucy: We really appreciate that. Larry: Thank you. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Gillian MuessigInterview Summary: Gillian Muessig, aka "SEOMom," is the President and Co-Founder of SEOmoz, providers of the world's most popular search marketing applications. SEOmoz.org serves a community of 300,000 search marketers around the world. Release Date: May 9, 2011Interview Subject: Gillian MuessigInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 31:22

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Laura Fitton CEO and Co-founder, OneForty Date: April 25, 2011 NCWIT Entrepreneurial Heroes: Interview with Laura Fitton [musical introduction] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women In Information Technology. This is the next interview in a series of interviews we've had with women who have started wonderfully successful tech companies. We're always interested to catch up with our latest entrepreneur and see what she's doing. With me is Larry Nelson, W3W3.com. What's going on at W3W3, Larry? What's the news? Larry Nelson: Well, I'm trying to learn more about Twitter. Other than that, things are going good. We've got a number of business people who tune into the various shows with NCWIT. It's not only business leaders and parents, but also many young women who listen for some great ideas. Lucy: Today we're interviewing someone who is known as the Queen of Twitter, Laura Fitton. I guess that's why you said something about Twitter, isn't it? [laughter] Well, you need to get the number right in your Twitter. Larry: I was just trying to check her out there. Lucy: We're interviewing somebody who is known as the Queen of Twitter, Laura Fitton. Laura Fitton: [laughter] I think Lady Gaga deserves the crown now. Lucy: Lady Gaga! Laura: Once upon a time. Lucy: [laughter] That would be great, maybe we should try to interview Lady Gaga. Any way, Laura is the founder of oneforty.com. Oneforty.com helps people understand Twitter and the exploding ecosystem of applications and services built on it. Oneforty.com has been called the "app store" for Twitter by TechCrunch and others. It's really a place to find awesome tools that really help you use Twitter, not just in ways for yourself but also for your business and so forth. I went and looked at some of the apps there and it just shows how much I need to catch up on the world of Twitter. [laughter] Laura: It's so true. We started out the Consumer App store and quickly learned from our users that they need us to cut through all the noise and provide them with reporting, with solutions to streamline their social business. Oneforty.com is really the place where tool providers, experts, and business leaders are sharing all their advice and lessons learned regarding social business. If your business needs to be getting into social media, this is the place to start. Lucy: Well, Laura, we're really happy you're here today. Maybe you could start off quickly telling us the latest news from oneforty.com. I think it's a place that most of us really need to know about. Laura: Sure! Thank you. In the last four months, we've done a pretty significant pivot, again user-led. We offered people a little thing we called "Toolkits," which were these humble little lists. The idea was, well you're using Twitter online but you're also using it on your phone and a few other places, using a lot of different tools. People came in and said, "Well, here's how to market a car dealership," "Here's how to market a restaurant." Or, "Here's what a realtor needs to know about social media and social business." So we responded to our users like any good startup does. In the last three weeks, we have completely relaunched the site centered around four business personas. All of the directory is still there, but we're really focusing it on connecting people with what they need to streamline and scale social. Lucy: So oneforty.com three weeks ago had a relaunch? That's pretty exciting news. Like I said, the site was just great and I really enjoyed looking at it yesterday. Laura: Thank you so much. The other thing that's new is that I was just on a webinar where I gave a sneak preview of some products that we're just launching that put everything you need for social all in one place-tools, all the workflow, all the guides on what to do next. Kind of training wheels for social engagement, making it really easy. Lucy: So Laura, it's really pretty exciting times at oneforty.com. Thanks very much for telling us all about the new site launch three weeks ago. It's really a great site and we really appreciated taking a look at it earlier this week. One of the things we like to find out from our entrepreneurs is how they first got interested in technology, as well as ask them a follow-up question to that where we ask them to look into their crystal ball regarding which technologies they think are out there that will change things even more? Laura: Awesome. Well I was a kid who was really into science, so I came to technology through science. In fact, my degree is in Environmental Science and Public Policy. I always played around with consumer web technologies, but never got involved in software development or anything like that, quite up until I did the startup. So it was a very odd choice for me, because I'd never seen software built. I knew tons of people in the interactive industry who did build software. I had lots of friends who had invested in it, had worked at startups, had run startups. But I myself had never done it. My connection to startups was that I was kind of a communications consultant. I did a lot of work on helping people to present and speak more effectively. And obviously entrepreneurs are constantly on the hot-seat having to present, so I stayed very close to the startup community but never dove into it myself. Long story short, I moved to Boston in 2006 just in time to have my second kid. They're like 14 or 15 months apart. I've no business network up here and I have to restart that communications consulting firm after nearly two years out of the market. So I get into blogging. I hear about this Twitter thing. I blog how stupid this Twitter thing is, around March 2007. And then two months later, the nickel drops and I say, wait a minute. I can surround myself with successful, interesting people and still be this home-based mom of two kids under two, and yet stay motivated and inspired throughout my workday. And that is exactly what appealed to me about Twitter when Twitter finally did appeal to me. Then I got so emphatic over how so much it was changing my life and how amazing and exciting it was for me that I just ran out there with this blog post called, "Ode to Twitter" on something like August 11, 2007. I mailed it to Guy Kawasaki, who, believe me, had never heard of me. And I just started telling everyone who would listen. To my great luck, Guy Kawasaki did listen and then turned around and trumpeted to the rest of the world. So in this very short time, I went from not even really knowing what the term "web 2.0" means in March 2007 to being profiled by the author of "Naked Conversations," one of the first major books in the space, less than a year later in April 2008. The next month, Wiley is coming to me asking me to write "Twitter for Dummies." I'm relaunching my communications consulting firm as a Twitter for business consulting firm, which was a little insane to do in September 2008. It was still really early on the concept and I'm just incredibly lucky that I staked my career on Twitter and not on one of the competitors like Pounce or Plurk, most of which have dried up or disappeared. I got very excited about a technology, because it made huge personal and professional changes in my life. It's like the classic adage to follow your passion and you can't go wrong. I was still was dragged into it kicking and screaming, though. For four months after having the idea for oneforty.com, I was trying to pawn it off on somebody else. But hey, you go build the startup and I'll advise. I'm smart enough to not do a startup. I know they're kind of hell. I'm in the middle of a divorce and have two very young kids. (They were two and three at the time.) And yet I failed at quitting it. I kept trying to quit it and I kept failing at quitting. So in March 2009 I finally started it up in earnest and it's been two years now. Lucy: You know, your comments kind of lead to our second question. Larry: Boy, I'll say, is that a fact. Here you came into this thing through science. You've been through all the different types of things, you knew you wanted to give it up. But... Lucy: And she tried to not be an entrepreneur. Larry: Yeah, exactly. Laura: I tried so hard. I'd worked for a startup in my 20s and the guy was nuts. [laughter] Laura: I've worked with a lot of entrepreneurs and I love entrepreneurs. You have to be fundamentally out of touch with reality on some level to be an entrepreneur, because otherwise you would know that your idea can't possibly work. You need enough detachment from that to be able to go make it work. Which is great, but boy, it puts you into some weird places, doesn't it? Larry: Boy, I'll say so. What is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick? Laura: I don't know, because I never thought I was an entrepreneur until this happened. [laughter] I have mad curiosity. I love to see things for myself. One of the people who has been kind enough to mentor me is Tony Hsieh, who is the CEO of Zappos. I won't be able to remember exactly what they were, but he asked me three very simple framing questions when I was kind of whimpering and whimpering and saying that I couldn't possibly be the CEO. It was, "Do you have that natural drive and curiosity?" "Do you want to see things for yourself?" And one other thing. He said, "If you have that, you're good. Everything else, you can learn." Lucy: Zappos is a great company. I just ordered my son four birthday shirts from them. Larry: Oh, all right! [laughter] Laura: That's the [inaudible 9:00] , girl. Tony is a fantastic human being, very generous with what little time he has. Lucy: It sounds like Tony definitely supported you on your way on your career path. Do you have other role models or mentors or other people who influenced you? Laura: I was carried by this net, literally my network. When I first did my angel pitch, there were a few people I knew in the investment community who charitably dialed in to hear it and asked me leading questions to help me understand what I was missing. One of them was Christine Herron, who at the time was with First Round Capital and now is with Intel Capital. She literally had to ask me in my first angel pitch, "Laura, where's the pricing coming from?" And I didn't even know what the word "pricing" meant at that point. [laughter] I was that naive. I tried to answer it. Later another person-again, these were friends because of social networking-Dave McClure was kind enough to take the time to listen to the recording. He asked, "Do you know what Christine was trying to tell you, Laura?" I said candidly, "No." And he explained it to me. So I was carried by this huge network of cheerleaders and supporters and mentors. One of the weird, kind of, "rags-to-riches, Cinderella" aspects of all of this is, I was so completely unknown, and then a year later I was in a book by Seth Godin and I was being mentored by Seth and by Guy Kawasaki and by people whose blogs I'd been reading for a long time and looking up to. And it actually took awhile to come to terms with accepting that. Like I felt guilty. I felt like, why am I getting all this time from all these busy people, there's nothing that special about me, I'm just sort of whatever. And then the way I came to peace with how incredibly generous the world was being with all of this was just like, OK, maybe they see a chance to get something done in the world by helping me get it done. So my responsibility to pay back the debt of all this mentorship is not only to do mentoring when I finally have bandwidth to do it, but to follow through and to make sure I realize the riches I've been given and try to create something with it. So that's been incredibly powerful to keep me going. Lucy: Well, and you know this interview is part of a give back. We have had a lot of people listen to these interviews, we have a social networking campaign with Twitter right now, on this interview series, so we really thank you for being with us and giving some of that advice back. Laura: Thanks. Larry: Well you know with all of the neat things you've done, Laura, what is the toughest thing that you've ever had to do in your career? Laura: That is such a great question. I was going to say that, the days after you run into a wall, because make no illusion, you run into a wall time, time and time again when the start-up [inaudible 11:46] , you fail all the time. Investors flake, co-founders drop out, people you hired don't work out, whatever. It's constantly running into a wall. And the next moment where you have to pick yourself up and dust yourself off, is really painful, it's hard. And just staying calm and.. and one lesson I've learned? Being radically nice to everybody, even if they kind of screwed you over. Because it preserves the relationship and you never know where that relationship leads in the future. That said, I'm very lucky, in that the energy just kept surging back to get through those times. I can't even take ownership of that, it was like being a lightning rod. I would give up, I would go to sleep like, "OK it didn't work, tomorrow I'll figure out something else," and I'd wake up still hell-bent on making it happen. So I was lucky. Lucy: Wow, it's great advice to be radically nice to people, even if you think they screwed you over. [laughs] I mean, it's powerful advice and I think it's advice that you might give to any young person who was thinking about being an entrepreneur. Do you have any other advice that you might tell a young person if they were on this call right now or listening to this interview? Laura: I think it's really important to not discount the most trite, childhood, what-your-mother-tells-you of all, is really be yourself. People told me that. I really struggled growing up, I was not socially well adapted, I was very emotional and kind of out of touch with my colleagues, like had a hard time in elementary school. And everyone was like, "oh just be yourself!" and I'm like "yeah, right." You know, "everybody hates me, I can't be myself." But it is so true that the more I was able to connect with "OK, that is what makes me tick, I'm just going to go with it." I mean, I never set out to think, "I'm going to rave about Twitter for a year and a half and someday it's going to be my job to do that." I just couldn't contain my excitement. So things worked out really well for me. I was very lucky. Larry: You know, with all the things that you've been through, in your childhood, preschool and everything else, what are the personal characteristics that really give you the advantage of being an entrepreneur? Laura: Definitely resilience. Some of the greatest gifts that I've been given in life were times that frankly sucked. I won't trot them all out, but... a couple tough things here and there. A couple really scary things that ended really well, like a premature baby and a very minor stroke, and things like that. But those are huge gifts and I don't think people see them in the moment when they're first happening. Again, I want to fall back to the trite, "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger," but there is huge, huge, huge silver lining in every negative thing that happens to you. Even if it's just making up a story in your head like "hey, that felt really terrible but I actually just dodged a bullet, because it could have been this," and I look back at the tough times and I am so grateful for every single one of them. I'm sad for the places where something terrible happened and it made other people sad, but I'm so grateful for how much strength they gave me and how much ability to bounce back and how much calm they gave me. I would not give up a single one of them. Lucy: That's just wonderful advice. That's so true of life in general, right? Being able to learn from tough times. Laura: Yeah. Lucy: And really integrate that into how you're looking at situations. Laura: I really do just straight-up cherish some of them. Lucy: Yeah, I think personally I had some in my corporate career that ultimately led to me coming here and doing what we're doing now with MC Wit, and it's just kind of interesting when you look back and thing "gosh, if that hadn't happened I wouldn't be here." Larry: Yep. You bet. Laura: Right! Lucy: It's totally the case. Laura: You know one of the more bizarre things I did was when I was about 26 or 27 I kind of more or less adopted one of my nieces. Who was, you know, "go and live with your aunt for the fun of it," right? So she had a couple things. And my mom was so, like, almost mad at me. She thought I was crazy to do it. But it was huge, I got so much more out of that experience than I put into it. A lot of growing up, a lot of taking responsibility, a lot of learning about how radically permanent love for a child is, because she really was functionally my daughter for three years, when she was 15, 16 and 17. And I remember thinking, "oh how hard can it be?" And wow, it was really hard. You know, being a teenager is tough, and being a teenager who's had a crappy run-in up to there was tough, too. But it took me out of my shell, it made me connect to people in new ways, my career catapulted because I had to get my act together. And I just love her so much, it was just incredible, it taught me a lot. Lucy: Well and that kind of gets to our next question we were talking some about, sometimes people say "oh, you should have balance between your work and your personal life," and how do you bring balance. We've talked to people about it really being an integration, and we're just curious to get your point of view on this issue of work- life balance and how you achieve it? Laura: It's tough and I don't think I'm super good at it. Yeah, not enough. I try to be really present with my kids when I'm not working. I would really love to bike commute more often, because it's about a nine mile, very flat, ride, very easy, takes the same amount of time the train does but forces me to exercise. And I think that's really important in managing the stress. Again, in a twisted way, I'm lucky that I'm divorced, because my ex is a fantastic dad, and he and his fiance are a great family for my girls in the 50 percent of the time I don't have them. I use that 50 percent of the time I don't have them to do all the extremes like, stay up late and work, or travel, or the different things you have to do to do a start-up. And I think that it would be tough if it was an intact marriage, and I didn't have that really clear-cut line of "OK, you are not a mommy right now." Yeah, of course I call them and stuff like that. But I'm not functionally needing to be there for them. And being more present when I am there with them. Larry: My goodness, I must say that you have really done a great deal, you've achieved a lot. What's next for you? What's on the horizon? Larry: You know, I don't think you ever feel like you've achieved a lot. I always feel just like, "oh crap, what's next? Oh my god, we've got to surmount this, we've got to surmount that." It's not like our company's profitable. It's not like we have a billion users. And I think if you asked everybody along wherever they are in the entrepreneurial process, they'd probably talk a lot more about what's yet to come than about what they feel they've achieved. So there's a ton of professional development I want to do, a lot of skills I want to improve upon and learn. I have this little fantasy about joining a team in the future where I'm a relatively junior part and I can really stretch and grow and learn from others who are just the best at what they do. I still don't have very much management experience, I never had an employee before oneforty.com, and so that means it's been really tough for me and for my employees to learn how to manage on the fly, learn all about software on the fly, learn all about business on the fly. And I just feel like I have so much more growing to do. Lucy: Well we have no doubt that oneforty.com is headed towards great success. Laura: Thank you very much. Lucy: We really do thank you and wish you the best of luck. So I want to remind listeners that they can find us at w3w3.com and also mcwit.org and to tell their friends this is a great interview, and to go visit oneforty.com and learn more about how to use Twitter. I know Larry's going there! Larry: I'm going to oneforty.com . Lucy: I saw him underline "Twitter for Dummies." [laughter] Laura: It's tough, right, I can't really give out my book as a gift because it's a bit insulting, isn't it? Thank you so much for the opportunity, such a salute out to, it shouldn't matter, but to the women in technology who are my heroes. Because it is inspiring to see, you know, Padmasree Warrior as the CEO of Cisco, Kara Swisher just tearing it up in tech journalism, Katarina [inaudible 19:01] , one of the first social media founders of a company. Rash [inaudible 19:12] is running slideshare.net, Marissa Meyer who's done phenomenal things at Google. It shouldn't matter whether, you know, I'm inspired by lots of men, too, but it really does mean a lot and I'm just so grateful for all of them and their work. Lucy: Well thank you, and I know people are really going to enjoy this interview. Larry: Yeah, thank you. Laura: Thank you. Lucy: All right, bye Laura. Laura: Take care, bye bye. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Laura FittonInterview Summary: Once upon a time known as "Queen" of Twitter, Twitter's own mom-at-home to tech CEO Cinderella Story is CEO/Founder of www.oneforty.com and co-author of Twitter for Dummies. You can read her story in the Boston Globe, on Xconomy.com or watch her Mixergy interview. Release Date: April 25, 2011Interview Subject: Laura FrittonInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 20:12

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Cathy Edwards CTO and Co-founder, Chomp Date: April 11, 2011 NCWIT Entrepreneurial Heroes: Interview with Cathy Edwards [music] Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of NCWIT, the National Center for Women in Information Technology and we have today another great interview with a wonderful entrepreneur. I'm very eager for this interview because not only is she a co-founder of a technical company but she's also the Chief Technology Officer. I think our listeners understand how much we at NCWIT care about technical women. Very eager to get to this interview. With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi. I'm happy to be here, of course. You know one of the interesting things is that we've found over this past few years now is that we have many different people that listen to these shows, business leaders and parents as well as many younger girls who are looking into technology. Lucy: Well, they're definitely going to be interested in listening to this interview with Cathy Edwards. As I mentioned before she's the CTO and co-founder. It's at Chomp, which is a great company. I went and looked at it again today. I just love it. It's a search engine for mobile applications, which if you're like me it's pretty difficult to find all the applications that you can have on your mobile device today. Cathy created Chomp's proprietary algorithm that understands the function of each app so you actually get to search for applications, not just on what they are called but what they do. For example you can search for puzzles, you can search for games, I was searching for gardening, and search for fitness, et cetera. It's a great site. It's a great company. Cathy we're really happy to have you here. Welcome. Cathy: Thank you. I'm really really pleased to be on the line. Lucy: So what's going on with Chomp? Tell us all the latest news. I know that you launched in January of 2010 with a platform for the iPhone and just recently for Android. Give us the latest. Cathy: Yeah. Things are going really really well and the app market, as I'm sure everyone is aware, is really taking off right now. It's kind of interesting. If you look at the stats, the rate at which apps are growing both in terms of the number of apps available and the rate of adoption is very, very similar to the early days of the web. This is really looking like being something that's going to be very very big. And of course as it gets really big people are going to need ways to find those apps, just like maybe in the early days you browsed around Yahoo's directory of websites and saw all the gardening websites on the Internet in one place. After a little while it just becomes too many. You need to start searching for them. We think the same thing's going to happen with apps. Lucy: I think that's absolutely true and I have to say this factoid. My husband has an early Yellow Pages of every web site on the Internet. [laughter] Cathy: That is priceless. That's fantastic. You should hang on to that. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: I know. It's one of our family heirlooms. Cathy: [laughs] Lucy: So I mentioned that Cathy's a CTO and she also has a great technical background. She has worked in industry at Friendster and Telstra working in areas of research related to natural learning and language processing. Cathy, why don't you tell us, based on your technical background, how you first got interested in technology. Cathy: Yeah. I was actually extremely lucky. I'm really grateful that I had these experiences when I was young. I was lucky enough to go to two separate primary schools that both really had a lot of opportunities to actually begin programming. I remember doing my first programming when I was quite young using a program called Logo where you could basically draw pictures, program a little turtle around the screen and draw pictures. I just loved it from day one. Really there was no distinction about "Oh, you're a girl so you can't program." I was really encouraged to get into it. Everything just really grew from there. I continued doing programming throughout high school and did Computer Science as one of my majors at University. I've always kind of been technical the whole way through, but I really do think that it was because I was given some of these opportunities when I was young that I really got into it like I did. Lucy: That's one of the things I'd say we're trying to do here, you know? Larry: Mm-hmm. Lucy: To get girls interested. Larry: That's right. Cathy: Yeah. I just think it's so important, and particularly in contexts that they can really connect with. When I was about 12 years old, I did this competition with the Lego Mindstorms robots, which was this, you had to program this robot to pick up an egg and take it from one side of a track to another. Things like that, particularly when you've got robots and it's fun and you're with your friends, it takes it away from being a nerdy, geeky dungeon thing, if that makes sense. Larry: [laughs] Lucy: Well, based on your technology background, we also like to ask people we interview what's your view of the future of technology? What do you think is going to be particularly interesting, perhaps even over and above what you're doing at Chomp? Cathy: Yeah, well I was going to say it's pretty obvious that apps are going to be a pretty big thing. But I think in general, this kind of post-PC world that we're moving into, computing moving away from a single device that sits on a desktop and into every little object, computing becomes a part of everything that we do. Now we have running shoes that can track how far we've run or a wine rack in our house that can track our inventory of wine. To me, that is a really really interesting future to contemplate. Larry: Mm-hmm. Lucy: Ubiquitous computing. Larry: You betcha. Lucy, you mentioned when you went to Chomp.com that one of the things you looked up was gardening. Lucy: Mm-hmm. Larry: Now I understand why you carried in a shovel to your office this morning. [laughter] Larry: Anyhow... Lucy: No way. [laughter] Larry: Cathy, this is either a tough or an easy question. Why is it you are an entrepreneur? What is it about entrepreneurship today that makes you tick? Cathy: I feel really really privileged to do what it is that I do. I love getting up and going to work each morning. I really think that very few people in the world are in a position where they can genuinely say, "I spend a lot of time working and I love every minute of it." To me being an entrepreneur is about really two things. The first is about creating and building really amazing products. The things that people use and that people love. It's almost like, I don't know, being a carpenter and building a table or something. There's this kind of tangible "I built that" feeling that goes along with being an entrepreneur that maybe you don't get at a bigger company. Then the second piece is about creating and building an amazing team of people and I really love working with people. I have the most amazing team at Chomp. It's just that process of bringing people together for a higher purpose to build this thing. It's really an amazing feeling. Lucy: It's very creative. Larry: Yes. Lucy: Just a very creative process. Along that path of becoming an entrepreneur, who particularly influenced or supported you? Cathy: My parents have just been amazing my entire life. They've been very supportive of my career. They're actually both entrepreneurs, although they're back in Australia and they do entirely different things from what it is that I do. But all through my life I have grown up around this idea of entrepreneurship, and being involved with the family business and just this idea of making stuff happen on your own. I really think it was their influence that has helped me get to where I am today. Lucy: Well,you know, you see them taking notes, risks, and creating something from nothing. That's got to be a very valuable childhood experience. Larry: Yes Cathy: Absolutely Larry: For sure, Now Cathy, just as a little sidebar here. My family and I lived in Australia for three years. Met an amazing number of people there. I just wanted to say welcome. Cathy: Oh, thank you. I love it over here. The start up community is really growing, in Australia. And it's really exciting to see what's coming out of there. But definitely exciting to be in a much more established start up community, here in silicone valley. Larry: All right now, with all the things you have done and the support you have had, and the amazing team that you have been able to put together, what is the toughest thing that you have had to do in your career? Cathy: I actually think that that comes back to managing people again, and the pain. I think learning to manage and lead people effectively, is an extremely difficult thing to do. I think it's actually particularly difficult thing for young intelligent people, who are really used to being in control of what they are achieving, and doing everything themselves. I definitely made a lot of management mistakes, when I first started managing people. Learning to overcome that end, to be good at building a team, is something that I had to focus on. Obviously I still focus on it today. There's obviously a long way to go there. That is probably the toughest thing I had to do. Lucy: Wow, I think there is some hidden advice around what you said, about building great teams, as being necessary in entrepreneurship. What other advice would you give a young person about becoming an entrepreneur, if they were on the phone with us today. Cathy: This is actually a really difficult thing to do, but I think if at all possible, please try and find one person that you can trust to start a business with. My co-founder, Ben Kieghran, has been the most amazing partner, as we have gone through this kind of wild, crazy startup ride together. It definitely has made a big difference, just to have somebody that you can talk through problems with, somebody that you can trust and brainstorm with, and somebody you can have a little freakout to when it all gets a little too much. Not doing it alone I think is very important. Lucy: That's what they do down under. They have a little freakout. Larry: I think I remember those, yes. Lucy: I didn't know what to call them, but now I have words for them. Larry: Now, with everything you've been through, the things that you've been developing, and knowing where your going to grow. What personal characteristics do you have that give you the advantage of being an entrepreneur? Cathy: I think I have this interesting combination of extreme impatience on the one hand, but also focus on the other hand. That means I have this bias towards getting things done, I just want to make progress, make progress, get things done. Execution is just so important when your an entrepreneur, that first few months when you just got ideas, and you're out networking, and there's so many things you could do just starting a company. That just like coming back to, "What am I building? Is there evidence that people actually like this?" All of that is just so critically important, that I think that kind of impatience helps me get through that Larry: I love it. Lucy: Yeah, really. Turning to a slightly different topic for a moment, being an entrepreneur is, of course, hard work, all the time seven by twenty four, yet we all are people and have our personal lives as well. How do you either balance or integrate the two. How does that work for you? Cathy: This is a really difficult question, obviously. I think it's something everybody struggles with. My take on it is, work life balance is something that is measured more on a span of years, more then a span of kind of weeks or months. Paul Graham actually has this really great essay where he talks about how economically you can really think of a startup as a way to compress your whole working life into like kind of five years. I feel in that context there's really no way to work a forty-hour week, and go to yoga every night. Really I see that this is the time in my life where I'm really dedicated on the work side of things, but I also expect there will be other times in my life where I will be more dedicated on the family side of things. Having said that, my New Years resolution was not to work a six-day work week every week. I'm working hard on that at the moment. Lucy: I had that resolution, too, and I haven't done it. Cathy: Very difficult Larry: It is tough. When we lived in Australia, we would escape every now and then to Mullewa, and that was a great escape. Cathy: Lovely, I've never actually been there, but I've heard wonderful things. Larry: Oh yeah. Now you know you've already achieved a great deal. You started out working with your programs of iPods, and just recently launched for the Android. Are there other things that you plan on doing. Cathy: We are really just very focused on building the best possible search experience for apps, and app search and web search are really quite different. This is a really difficult problem that hasn't been solved yet. We expect it's going to take us awhile to really get that to be amazing, so that's just what we are working hard on right now. Lucy: Although this question isn't on our official list I just now have to ask it for sure. Based on what you found out so far, with your search for apps, are there any missing areas, where we could all go write apps and get really, really rich. Cathy: You know, everybody asks me that. Well actually we produce an app search analytics support each month. That goes through what people are searching for and that sort of thing. I believe that we are planning on focusing on unfilled areas of app interest in one of those reports in the future. I don't have an answer for you right now, but stay tuned. Larry: I will Lucy: I will, we can write apps, to fund NCWIT. Larry: There you go, I like it. Lucy: Wow, Cathy, Thanks so much for joining us we really enjoyed talking to you. I want to remind listeners that they can find this at w3w3.com, and also ncwith.org. Larry: We'll put up chomp.com on the website also. Lucy: Well, Thank you Cathy. Larry: Thank You. Cathy: Thank you very much. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Cathy EdwardsInterview Summary: Cathy Edwards is the CTO and co-founder at Chomp, a search engine for mobile apps. She created Chomp's proprietary algorithm that understands the function of each app, allowing you to search for apps based on what they do rather than just what they're called. Release Date: April 11, 2011Interview Subject: Cathy EdwardsInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 14:39

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Bettina Hein Founder and CEO, Pixability Date: March 7, 2011 NCWIT Entrepreneurial Heroes: Interview with Bettina Hein [music] Kennedy: Hi, this is Lee Kennedy, board member for the National Center for Women in Information Technology, or NCWIT. I am also CEO of Bolder Search. This is part of a series of interviews that we are having with fabulous entrepreneurs, women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors, all of whom just have terrific stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi Larry. Larry Nelson: Oh, hi. I am really excited to be here. Once again, this is going to be a fantastic interview with a number of high powered women who have really been examples of super entrepreneurship. Lee: Wonderful. You want to tell us just a little bit about w3w3. Larry: Well, we have been doing it for 12 years. We are an Internet‑based business radio show. We host everything and archive everything. We have over 17,000 pages on our website and they are all business interviews. We are excited about that. Lee: Wonderful. Well, today we are interviewing Bettina Hein who is the founder and CEO of Pixability. Pixability helps small and medium sized businesses increase sales by using video. Bettina is a repeat entrepreneur based in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Prior to Pixability, Bettina cofounded Swiss based SVOX AG in 2001 and led the venture‑backed speech software company to profitability. Then in 1996, Patina was the initiator of START, an organization that advances entrepreneurship among college students. She is also the founder of SheEOs, and that's a network for female CEOs and founders of growth companies. So Bettina, welcome. Bettina Hein: Thank you very much for having me. Lee: Well, we'd love to hear a little bit about Pixability before we jump into some questions we have for you. Bettina: Well, you said it correctly. We help companies and non‑profits create and promote themselves via online video. We help you create a great video by for example sending you a flip camera and you shoot the video. We spruce it up and then we have software that publishes that video all over the Internet and search engine optimizes. We are really the experts for video marketing. Lee: Wonderful. Larry: Oh I love it. Lee: We are just going to jump into things here. We'd love to hear how you first got into technology. Bettina: I've been in tech all of my career. I guess it started a little bit earlier than that. I started with computers and programming in Logo when I was in fourth grade on an Apple IIe way back when I went to college for business administration and did finance. But I was always in love with technology and would spend lots of time with all the guys in the windowless rooms with the computers. When I got out of grad school, I had offers from investment banks and consultancies and all of that. But I really wanted to be in tech. I took my fourth grade book where I had written down these Logo programs, written them out, so I took them to talk with the founders of tech companies. I became involved in SVOX my first company which is a speech technology software company based in Zurich, Switzerland and became a cofounder there. I've been in tech and an entrepreneur all of my career, basically straight out of grad school. Lee: Well, and the other question I had is what today you think is really cool, what technologies do you just love to play with? Bettina: Well, you should really play with Google Translate because that has my SVOX [indecipherable 00:03:56] and the company SVOX's technology. There is a speech technology that is pretty cool. But apart from that, the obvious thing video. There is a lot of things happening around video and into active video and video on mobile phones. That ties in with all the things that are happening in the mobile space. I really think that there are lots of things happening that are relevant for businesses in mobile and that again ties in to the social web, social media. As a geek on the side I am also really interested in things like Amazon's Mechanical Turk, because that sort of shows the human computing interface. Probably you saw what was on Jeopardy last week was IBM's Watson. I am really fascinated on how humans and AI that interface there. But that's something that's a little bit further out for commercialization, actually. Larry: With your experiences now, what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick, and why did you become an entrepreneur. Bettina: I didn't know any better. All of my four grandparents are actually entrepreneurs. My grandmothers as well as my grandfathers were entrepreneurs in their own right, and my parents as well. They are professionals and nobody in my family ever had a nine‑to‑five job. I didn't really know what that meant. I heard that you have this career thing and you go to an office and you come back at night. But I never experienced that from home. I didn't really know what that meant. For me it didn't seem like a far reach to become an entrepreneur. Also, I love creating something from nothing. It's really so wonderful if you do it with an organization or if you do it with a company, that you have this idea in your head that you want to create something that helps fosters entrepreneurship in college students. What I did was START. Or you want to make speech technology an everyday then people use, and you have this idea and you work really, really hard. It's extremely hard, but it comes alive when you create all these jobs. My last company has over 120 people. My husband is also an entrepreneur. Together we have created over 500 jobs. I am really, really proud that I figured out by hard work how to take something and turn it into an entity that provides a livelihood for so many people. Lee: Boy, that's so cool. This question is a lead on to that. Who influenced you or supported you to take the career path you have? Do you have any role models or mentors? Bettina: Well, my family, definitely. My grandfather grew a company. He was a coal miner and when he was 15 he went into the coal mine and was under the earth. It was a really back breaking hard job. Over the years, he found ways to make money in other ways. He ended up having a wholesale Coop providing hundreds of millions of tons coal to the big energy producers, electricity producers. He was retired by then, but he would always tell me how he did that. How he used his knowledge, when he was 15, to do all of that. He would do math problems with me on this and tell me about how he negotiated across the table and that he always was really faster in his head. They couldn't pull out a calculator as fast as he could do the math, so we would work on that. Up to about five years ago, I had mostly male mentors because I haven't seen any women doing what I was doing. As a female entrepreneur in technology, in Europe there were hardly anybody to look up to. But then I moved from Zurich, Switzerland to here to Cambridge Massachusetts. I found that well there are these people I can look up to that can be a mentor. You interviewed Gail Goodman the founder of Constant Contact, or the founder of the Zipcar, Robin Chase. People like Beth Marcus who sold her fifth company. People have done this here before. I now feel like I am living in Disneyland in a way because I have so many people that support me. I am trying to give it back with SheEOs group that I created to foster more female entrepreneurship. Larry: That's terrific. By the way Lucy Sanders always likes us to ask this tough question. What is the toughest thing that you had to do in your career? Bettina: So I started my first company when I was 27. This was in 2001. So it was post dotcom boom. But there was still money around and a little bit of hype around. But that very quickly evaporated. But, we were able to raise money and we hired people and that was going pretty well. Then we just did not make any of our goals. It was terrible because I, the young person, had promised the world to all these people. We hired over 20 people. I had to fire half of them at a certain point, together with my co‑founders. That was really, really, really hard to do that. In Europe, it's also harder to fire people. You don't fire them and they leave that day. You have to keep them on for three months. You have to continue to paying their salaries so, that was really, really hard. It made me very prudent about over hiring and making sure I meet my goals before I promise people too much. Lee: Yeah, I think we've heard from a good majority of the people we have interviewed that having to lay off people or fire people is not easy. Larry: Yeah, Bettina, you're absolutely right about in Europe. My wife and I have owned a number of companies in Europe. We had some of those similar experiences. Bettina: Yeah, you have to look people in the eye for three months and say, "I failed you." Every single day they look at you while they're searching for new jobs, but they still work for you. I didn't feel so hot. Lee: If you were to think back of all the things you learned through growing businesses and having the networking, the CEO, what would you advise a young person about entrepreneurship if they were sitting with you there today? Bettina: That's one of the things I really love doing. I really love helping other people make their dreams come true. I typically tell them anybody can be an entrepreneur. I tell them that "You can do it." There are three things I tell them that they need. The first one is naivete. If you knew what was going to hit you during the course of building your company, you would not start. [laughter] Larry: You're right. Bettina: You should really, really start young and go at it. That doesn't mean to be unprepared, right? That means, you have to do your research. You have to look for a good market. But, if you knew too much, you would not be able to be an innovator. Naivete is the first thing. The second thing I tell them they need to have is chutzpah. Do you guys know what that means? Lee: Yes. Larry: Yeah, we do, but why don't you explain it to our listeners. [laughter] Bettina: Yeah. I always usually ask them. It means being audacious, putting yourself out there. You really have to own it and say, "Yes, I am convinced I can do this and I can solve your problem." Let me give you an example. When we started SVOX, we were a small company, but we had the chutzpah to go to Mercedes Benz and say, "We have the solution for your flagship product, the S Class and we want it." We didn't know at the time how we'd be able to deliver. I mean, we had a plan, but we couldn't the next day have delivered. But, they gave us an order for this, and that made the company. Chutzpah means putting yourself out there. It doesn't mean winging it. You have to do your homework and be prepared to deliver. But, you have to also say, "I know I can do this for you. Trust me on this." Then the third thing is perseverance. You have to have the willpower to see it through. Because It's hard. It's very hard and you're going to want to quit. Often. You have to see it through. But, that doesn't mean being stubborn. You do have to take cues from your environment and pivot and change your business model and evolve it. Just as I said my toughest experience was firing all those people. Well we didn't give up. We laid off all those people because we said, "OK, with the cash that we have and where we need to go, this is how we can get to growing the company." Since then, the company has grown more than 10X. But, we knew we had to see this through. If you have those three things, I think any young person can make it in an entrepreneurship. Larry: Wow. You have hit on a number of different things that you've done, and so on, but let me just see if we can narrow this down. What are personal characteristics that have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur? Bettina: Well, first of all as I said before that not know any better, the family background, definitely. Also, if you statically look at it, what makes people more inclined to be entrepreneurs, is if they have role models in their family to do that. But, just personally, I have a dogged determination to succeed, to make things happen. I think that's really the most important thing that people say to me. I feel that motivates the people that I find to work for me most is that people can serve me all kinds of punches and I will get back up, get back on the horse and just continue on. Obviously, that's my strategy and learning from those punches, but I will do that. I think my team also [indecipherable 00:14:46] the energy through hard times to keep going. Lee: With all the startups and things that you've done, how do you bring balance into your life, between personal and professional? Bettina: It all melds into one, in a way. I just don't believe in this myth that you can completely separate your personal and your professional life. I think that's just not true. I do think that you have to have some little bit of distance. I try not to work on Saturdays. That's what I try not to do. I also advocate that people take time off and I do that myself. It's very hard to do that, but being from Europe, a lot of vacation there is mandated by law. What I always try to train everybody in the company to tag team it. We're experimenting this year with a vacation policy that says you get two weeks off a year, or you get four weeks off a year, if you take two weeks at a time. You have your pick. You can either get four weeks, or two weeks. But, of you want to take off time, don't piecemeal it a day here or a day here. You have to take two weeks off. The reason for that is, that I want people to do their jobs and document them so well that other people can take over their jobs for two weeks while they're gone and they don't have to worry. I try to do that with myself. I really try not to be a bottleneck for decisions or for things that are happening in the company. For me, I think, it's very hard to do. But, I am really working hard on it. Right now, I am getting ready to have my first baby so I am really working very hard in order to be able to take four weeks off of maternity leave and trying to get everybody transferring enough responsibility so I can go do that. It's a big challenge, but I absolutely believe if you fail at that, then your company will collapse like a house of cards if you leave. That means you didn't build a good organization. Larry: Bettina, you're right on. My wife and I, who are in business together, we have five kids, so we have some empathy for what you're talking about. Bettina: I'm glad, yes. It's going to be a challenge. I know that. Larry: Besides your new baby, you've already achieved a great deal. What's next for you? Bettina: Well, I think there's lots more out there. I think I am 10 years into my apprenticeship of being an entrepreneur. I think I'm constantly learning. I do have a dream of taking a company public one of these days, like Gail did with Constant Contact. Pixability we often sell ourselves to investors as, "What Constant Contact did for email marketing we're going do for video marketing." But, maybe being public these days isn't the most attractive thing anymore, but I do want to grow a company in a substantial way and into the thousands of employees. That's my dream that's still out there. Larry: I have a feeling you're going to do it too. Lee: That is a wonderful dream. Bettina: Thank you for that confidence. Lee: We thank you for interviewing with us today. For everybody out there listening, you can find these podcasts on W3W3.com and as well at ncwit.org. Please pass it along to a friend. Thank you Bettina. We've enjoyed having you today. Bettina: Thank you very much for inviting me. Larry: Thank you. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Bettina HeinInterview Summary: Bettina Hein believes there's a recipe for successful entrepreneurship, and in this interview she shares it. Ingredients include chutzpah and persverance. Release Date: March 7, 2011Interview Subject: Bettina HeinInterviewer(s): Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 18:34

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Alicia Morga Founder of GottaFeeling, Consorte Media Date: February 21, 2011 NCWIT Entrepreneurial Heroes: Interview with Alicia Morga [intro music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. We've got just another great interview coming up. I can hardly wait to talk to the person we are talking to today. With me is Larry Nelson, w3w3.com. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi and I am so happy to be here. This is going to be an extremely interesting interview. The listeners out there, make sure that you get yourself ready to take a few notes here, too. Lucy: Absolutely. Lee Kennedy who is founder of Bolder Search and she is also a serial entrepreneur and probably most importantly, she is on the board of directors at NCWIT. Welcome, Lee. Lee Kennedy: Thanks and I love being here and part of NCWIT. Larry: All right. Lucy: Today, we are interviewing Alicia Morga who is currently the creator of gottaFeeling. This is an iPhone application that we must all go get. It basically tracks and shares your feelings. I went and look at the interface and it's just so cool. To think that all the places where I'm happy could be tracked over time and that I could learn something from that. It's just a wonderful application. But, before that, she was the founder and CEO of Consorte Media and it's a digital media in marketing company that is focused on the Hispanic market. Ultimately sold to Audience Science in April 2010. I was intrigued by Alicia's bio and I went to her site to learn more and she has the most wonderful video bio, I think I've ever seen. I really want to encourage all our listeners who want to be inspired to be entrepreneurs and to really get out there to go and listen to Alicia's video bio on her site. I know today we are going to hear some great advice. Here is my personal favorite and my husband was listening as well. Alicia, I'm ratting on you now but you said like "I do things to scare myself on a regular basis." [laughter] Lucy: It was just great. Welcome, Alicia. We are really glad to have you here. Why don't you tell listeners what have been going on with you lately before we go on to our interview questions. Alicia Morga: Well, thank you for having me first off. I have continued to do things that scare me. One of those is actually building a mobile application. I've never done that before. I actually didn't own an iPhone, or an iTouch and decided this is something I don't know anything about. Why don't I just jumped in and see what I can create. That is when I created the gottaFeeling application. As you said before, that's an App that helps people identify, express and manage their emotions. As you all some intend, you can track where and when you've been having those emotions. You got a better sense of what in your life is actually making you happy or not. Lucy: See, isn't that good? Larry: Yes, I'm happy. Lucy: If I plot my iPhone when I'm around you and I press annoying, annoying, annoying... Larry: Be careful, be careful, be careful, be gentle. Lee: That's how I kind of look at it. Not when I was happy but when I was sad. [laughter] Alicia: Just an beneficial. Serve you when you are unhappy, as well. Lucy: And so, Alicia, why don't you tell the listeners how you first got interested in technology. Alicia: Absolutely. It was a security's route. That was for sure. I did not grow up thinking I was going to be an entrepreneur nor anybody who knew me think I was going to be an entrepreneur. But when I look at it back now, I realized I have all the entrepreneurial traits that are usually necessary to become an entrepreneur. I was very curious and adventurous. The first time I got into technology was when I was in high school. There was a basic programming language course that I ended up taking and I built a baseball game in basic and thought wow, this was fun. You can build anything that you want in this thing called the computer. I had absolutely no concept beyond that I would use technology. But I ended up going to Stanford University and that of course, just plunked me down in the middle of Silicon Valley. I started to hear drips and drabs about technology and entrepreneurship but really didn't connect the dots until I became a corporate lawyer after law school off at Stanford University. At that point starting to work with technology companies and venture capital firms. That's when I just started to really dwell. There's this business here and this is how people here make money. I want to understand it more. I started just digging in. At that point, the Internet was more evolved and I was able to go online and see how other people were using technology and that was very inspiring. Lucy: Well, as you look at then on the technical landscape today. Are there any technologies that you find particularly exciting? Alicia: What was so eye opening to me about learning technology. We are not really as far long we think we are or we would hope to be. And so, the uses of technology right now are pretty basic. And so, I'm actually excited about pushing the technologies a little bit further. One of the things that I really like about this mobile application and the next company that I'm going to be starting is how do we push the technology to do more than just read newspaper accounts or play a game. But actually use it more in our everyday life. Some in extremely motivated by the quantified self movement, I don't know. You guys are familiar with that. But in essence, it is using the device, the technology device that are out there today like the mobile phone. In some cases, devices that are actually created for specific uses like Fit Fit or Nike's iPad tracker. To give you more feedback about who you are as a human being and to use the data that you produce by yourself to make better decisions and improve your life. I'm really excited about technology that is going to actually make a fundamental difference as opposed to just highlighting the symptoms. Lucy: Gosh, I love these interviews. It's like I always learn so much from. Thanks. That's really cool. I mean I have to check that out. Alicia, you have started to talk about the characteristics of why you are an entrepreneur, you're curious and adventurous. Can you expand on that? We'd love to hear about why you are an entrepreneur and what it is that makes you tick about being an entrepreneur. Alicia: I basically started my own company because at that time, I was working at The Carlyle Group, a private equity firm, and really... Was also at my beginning 30s, and really started to ask myself where did I really want to be in 10 years and whose path did I want to be own. I thought the task at the Carlyle Group, a very fine firm, but it was going to be a long tap and arduous one to become partner. I wasn't necessarily sure that's exactly what I wanted for myself. I started looking around. I had this friend who start his own business and that was very influential because up until that point, I've never known anybody to be an entrepreneur. Because I am a curious person, I started asking him about what his day was like and I went over to his house. We lived in the same neighborhood and he was making hotdogs. I remember in his pajamas one day. [laughs] I start wow, is this what being an entrepreneur is like? ? [laughter] Lucy: Yeah. [laughter] Alicia: That was eye opening. But what I got out of that interaction was you get control over your destiny in a way that you don't necessarily as an employee when you are the employer, when you are somebody who has the vision and is getting the team together and pushing forward towards that vision. There is just a whole level of control that you get and also, responsibility. But that was very, very intriguing to me. I get a lot the question: Are entrepreneurs born or made? I think that is a tricky question because I think it's a little bit of both. I think there are folks who have the personality traits that will help them to be successful entrepreneurs. But they may or may not have ever been put in a context that makes it available to them, that gives them the exposure and access they might need to become an entrepreneur. And without that context, you can have some very limiting belief about what's possible for you which was definitely the case for me earlier on. It took me... I've gone into my 30s before I felt safe enough before I felt more confident in who I was as a person to actually explore entrepreneurship. Larry: Wow. Lucy: And now, you make hotdogs in your pajamas? [laughter] Alicia: Sadly, that's true. [laughter] Lee: All right.  Larry: OK. That's another session, OK? [laughter] Larry: Alicia, along the way, you've worked with so many different people. Who are some of the people that you would say supported you in your career path whether they are mentors or role models? Alicia: When I was younger, I had a feeling this question would come up. And so, I was thinking about this. I was thinking who were my mentors when I was younger and I actually didn't have mentors. By virtue of where I grew up, I was in a socio-economic community. Most of the people I knew didn't have college degrees, didn't have any college degrees, were not in any sort of professional industry. I then had to turn to popular media basically, to provide me with a sense of what else was out there and available. I had a mind that wanted to know what else was out there. I have to say, some of my mentors are actually PBS. [laughs] I found the PBS channel, and I used to watch "Nova" religiously. Especially when I was 12, for some reason, I went through a whole "Nova" period. [laughs] I was also fortunate that there was "The Cosby Show" at the time. That was the first time I had ever seen a doctor and a lawyer who were married. Growing up popular media actually had a very huge influence on me and were my mentors, until I got much older. Then in the process of being entrepreneur, becoming one, living as one, one of my greatest mentors is a woman named Carol Robbin. She's actually a professor here at the Stanford Business School. She was my CEO coach. There came a time in my entrepreneurship experience where I felt very overwhelmed and I needed help. I was referred to her, and she has just been fabulous. She used to be fabulous in my life, but somebody who I really look to for not only how to be an entrepreneur, but also how to be as a person. Lucy: Alicia, you've done a wonderful job describing to listeners the path you've taken as an entrepreneur. What's the toughest thing you've ever had to do? Alicia: Hmm. [laughs] There's been a lot of tough things I've had to do. There have been tough experiences in my life. The number one toughest experience, I think, in my life, was when I graduated from high school. I had been accepted by Stanford University, but I didn't have the financial resources to make it work. I actually had to spend two years working full time and going to school at the same time, saving money in order to transfer into Stanford at the beginning of my junior year. It was the first time I was confronted with the fact or the reality that you can do everything right and it still not work out. It was a hard lesson to learn, but it only solidified my persistence muscle, which is, if you really want something, you just keep going at it and eventually you'll get there. You can't take the early signs as signs that you shouldn't be doing it. Then later in my career as an entrepreneur, I think the hardest moment was in essentially my former company at Consorte Media always had to do with people. There came a time when we had to lay off a few folks, and that was extremely difficult. Especially in a small company, when you know people well, you know exactly what's going on in their personal life. It's the last thing you want to have to do. Very, very difficult. Lucy: That seems to be so many of the woman that we've interviewed in this series, is having to lay off someone, and having to reorganize. Alicia: Absolutely. People are the joys, but they're also the greatest challenge, as well. Lucy: Looking at a more positive note, if you were sitting here with us, and you were going to explain to somebody that was thinking about becoming an entrepreneur, what advice would you give them? Alicia: That's a great question. I would first tell them to listen to their body. I know that sounds really strange, but I have found that entrepreneurs are the people who do. There's a great big mix of people who talk about doing, but entrepreneurs are the ones who actually get out of their chair, off their sofa, and start trying to make it happen. It may not happen in the way that they want it to, but they're the ones who take the first step. You have to start to notice, as you think about entrepreneurship or what you might want to do next in your life, what your body does. If you find yourself searching online in the subject area that you're interested in starting a business, that's a great sign. If you find yourself thinking about but you never actually get up to go start doing some research or asking people some questions, that's a sign that you're probably not going to end up doing it, or the time is not right for you to become an entrepreneur. Woman: So you've got to move. Larry: Got to move. Now, I think maybe there's a little bit of a hint about that, because I want to ask you, what are the personal characteristics that you have that has given you the advantage of being an an entrepreneur? Alicia: Absolutely. I'm a mover. As you probably also might have noted in the video, I'm a runner. [laughs] I like to run. I'm a very physical person, just first and foremost. But mentally I am what's called a quick start. There's actually a test out there that people may or may not know about that is particularly interesting. I have found it interesting in assessing who I am and what I'm good at. It's called the Kolbe Index. It tells you what your conative style is, which is how you actually go about doing things, as opposed to just thinking about things. I am somebody who just dives in, and then tries to figure it out as I go along. I tend to get in over my head and then swim my way out. I think that's actually a great trait for entrepreneurs, because it's never going to be perfect. The stars aren't going to all align and the doors are just going to open up, and there's going to be sounding angels saying, "It's ready, it's time for you to start your company!" It just never happens that way. I analogize it a lot to having a baby. There's really no good time. But those people who jump in and do it are really, at the end of the day, entrepreneurs. I think that's a really key trait. Lucy: Absolutely it is. Alicia, in terms of balance between your personal and your professional life, you mentioned you're a runner. That certainly helps bring balance. It certainly relieves some stress. What other things do you do that help put balance into your life? Alicia: I have to admit, during my time at Consorte Media, I was terrible at balance. I really was. When you're brand new and it's your first thing, you're just so engulfed by what you're trying to accomplish that you think about it all the time. It's really hard to set up boundaries. This time around, I'm much more aware of how necessary it is to take a break and go for a run, or see your family, or hang out with friends, or just do something completely different. Play the guitar for a while to give yourself a mental, physical, emotional break from what you're trying to do. That's basically what I do to maintain balance. I see my family. I see my friends. We talk about things that are completely unrelated to what I'm doing on the business side. That helps. Lucy: Definitely helps. Larry: You got it. Lucy: Well, Alicia, your life is really interesting, and I can't wait to go watch your video. Tell us what's down the road for you. What are you excited about? Alicia: I'm really excited about where this mobile application is taking me. I'm very excited the concept of self awareness. One of the key things that I had to learn in becoming an entrepreneur is understanding who I was, which sounds so wishy-washy or touchy-feely, but turned out to be an incredibly important thing, because you can't be a leader without understanding your weaknesses and your strengths. That means really taking the time to understand who you are. I find a lot of people really don't do that, particularly young people. You get pigeon-holed really quickly into a track. You go down that track and not enough people, I think, stop to ask themselves if they're happy. Is there something that actually is working for them? I don't think happiness is necessarily the end all, be all. It's actually quite a fleeting thing, and it sort of happens every once in a while, and that's great. But is your life or what you're doing in life really congruent with who you are so that you're getting the best out of it? To do all that, you have to go back to some basic skills that we all started to learn in kindergarten, in the first grade, when we learned how to identify our feelings and to express our feelings. But it's a skill, and it's not something that's actually practiced on a regular basis. It's not something you can learn once and then hope to have for the rest of your life. I think it's extremely important that people continue to focus in on, "Who am I, and how do I get myself to a place of peace?" To do that, I think there are ways technology can help. So while "Got a Feeling," the mobile application, is one part of what I'm trying to create. I'm working on a second part, a company that's in stealth mode, but it's called Regmeta which is actually a Portuguese word for "reflect." It will help individuals to see themselves through the information they share about themselves online, and also through their relationships with others. Lucy: That's really interesting. Larry: Sounds interesting. Wow. Alicia: Good. Lucy: Yeah, it definitely does. You know, "Got a Feeling," I was just sitting here thinking of that song, "I'm Hooked on a Feeling." [laughter] [singing] Larry: We got them going. [laughter] Lucy: Alicia, it sounds like you've just got some wonderful things that you're working on. We really do appreciate your taking time to talk to us. Alicia: Thank you. Lucy: Good luck with those products. We'll be watching you, and hopefully connect again in the future. Alicia: Sounds good. Lucy: I want to remind listeners where they can find this interview, at w3w3.com, and also at mcweb.org. Man: All right. Lucy: Thank you, Alicia! Alicia: Bye. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Alicia Morga Interview Summary: Stanford, Goldman Sachs, Hummer Winblad: Alicia Morga may look like your typical success story, but don't let that fool you. This driven woman has worked her way up the ladder from extremely humble beginnings. Now, as an entrepreneur, she's figured out the difference between how to survive and how to thrive. Release Date: February 21, 2011Interview Subject: Alicia MorgaInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 19:13

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: NCWIT Entrepreneurial Heroes Lee Kennedy: Hi, this is Lee Kennedy. I'm the CEO of Bolder Search and a board member for the National Center for Women & Information Technology or NCWIT. This is part of a series of interviews that we are having with fabulous entrepreneurs. They're women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors, all of whom have just fabulous stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs. With me today is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hey, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hey, I'm excited about this interview, certainly a person with a tremendous amount of experience. Wow, I can't wait to get into this and we know we have lot of firm executives and young people that are looking into becoming an entrepreneur and getting into the high tech arena who are listeners. So, I'm really looking forward to this interview. Lee: Super. So, today we are interviewing Sukhinder Singh Cassidy. She is a leading Internet and media executive with a touch over 18 years of leadership in working with early stage companies including Google, Amazon, Yodlee and Polyvore, which is a leading global fashion community site. So, why don't I go ahead and interview Sukhinder. We are so happy to have you today. Sukhinder Singh Cassidy: Thank you. Lee: Larry, I think we'll just jump into things. Larry: All right. I'm going to ask you a question that Lucy Sanders always likes us to ask and that is how did you first get involved in the technology business and what technologies do you think are cool today? Sukhinder: I actually first got involved in the technology business probably 13 or 14 years ago in 1997, actually, late '96, early '97. Prior to that, I had been working in New York, in London in media and that investment banking. I stayed in Merrill Lynch for several years and then I went on to market BSkyB, which is the leading satellite broadcast at that time. So, actually, kind of a technology company but more of a media company. I moved to the Bay area on fundamentally I guess on thesis that I wanted to be close to entrepreneurs and one day be an entrepreneur myself. I did not know what I wanted to do but I did know there were smart motivated people in the Bay area. I had traveled out to San Francisco to visit friends and fell in love with the Bay area. So, I took a leap of faith. I moved from London, sold everything I had in London. Bought a car for $10, 000 in LA and drove up the Coast to San Francisco and found my first job. Larry: Wow. Lee: I have to say it is not too dissimilar to my background. I moved out to the Bay area and it's kind of hard not to get into technology. Sukhinder: Absolutely. So, I did not want to be an entrepreneur. But it was that classic, I didn't have an idea. So I thought the next best thing was to put myself close to smart people, working on interesting problems and being entrepreneurs themselves, somehow that path would be a positive one. Larry: Of all the different things that you've been involved with the technology, which ones do you think are cool today? Sukhinder: There are some I had been lucky enough to be involved with and some less so that I just admire from afar a bit. Probably, two of my favorites I'll say as consumer there's something you got to see these businesses built at Google. One, I mean the technology I just to love today, are anything that you would of think as geo or location based. So, my first job at Google was helping to launch Google maps and Google logo and the idea that your location is a pretty important indicator. Where you are relative to your friends in the case of Foursquare or where you are on a map and where you are trying to get to go and having driving directions on your iPhone, forgoing the traditional, heavy-duty MAPS systems that are sitting in cars or something; lightweight but just as revolutionary. So, I love anything geo where as a user my location has something to do and some relevance to play in what I want to do next. And I think we see geo now as a layer on top of many technologies. The second thing I love is of course cloud-based applications. For me, it is actually very simple. As a consumer, the idea that I no longer have to be stuck to one PC to access my contact list, to access my emails, to access documents. I mean today we have apps of every kind based on the cloud; business apps, enterprise apps, consumer apps. But I think of Google really as introducing that concept in a pretty revolutionary way with Gmail and now of course its very standard. I just love cloud based apps because they truly make me mobile. And the last thing, it's hard not to love the iPhone, now the iPad but if you think about the iPhone as just an incredible tool but more importantly an incredible statement instead of just ability to use that hardware and software. To have a pretty revolutionary consumer design and that the integration of hardware and software still matters. And owning both, which was Apple's proprietary focus and goal. And long after people forgot about hardware, Apple believed that innovation was still possible in hardware, right? And the group did this to all by fundamentally changing the way we communicate with the iPhone. Lee: I'll have to have an offline discussion about the iPhone versus Android GP and you being a former Google employee. Sukhinder: Yes and it means like I said like the Android OS and then the non proprietary system and that is amazing being able to boot application development to many different phone and the fundamental thesis for Google creating an OS and then integrating with third party hardware and redesigning hardware. Instead of working a new age phone that showcase the power software. So, I guess my point is that long after people have forgotten about hard ware and all the software, lo and behold Apple app and hardware. Lee: I know that's the jobs. Sukhinder: Application development layer and in Droid continues on that screen stream.  Larry: Well, I just want to let you know that I have something in common with you. We moved from Copenhagen to the Bay area a number of years ago. Lee: Are you trying to warn me up Larry? OK. All that said about your background and the technologies you think are cool. Tell us why entrepreneurship turns you on? What are you an entrepreneur? Sukhinder: I think there are probably three things I just love about it. Number one is obviously the building that create an author and that is every level. Yes, you are creating a business model on a product but also to go and author your team. Who you get to work with, how you want to work, the culture you want to create. I think that there are people who love to build stuff. I happen to love to build stuff. I think authorship and creation except for some people is a drag and I think I really enjoy the process. I think the second think is I'm sort of a gratification junkie. I like to put in work and get back feedback quickly and then iterate like progress to me is best measure in those increments and that is also how I motivate myself and I think entrepreneurship is really suited to this iteration cycles, right? You get to put out something out there, see the results, see what works, see what doesn't, try it, try something else. And I think that fast cycle times really feels and considers me and probably my own kind of cycle which I work and I think that is fundamentally one of the reasons that it gives me so much excitement. So, I think authorship and the ability to create the kind of quick iteration and feedback loop in entrepreneurship those are things that resonates really, really highly with me. Larry: Sukhinder, with all the things that you done in the different organizations, it's really phenomenal. But let me ask you this, along the way, who supported you in your career path or your role model or your mentor? Sukhinder: Well, first of all, it is interesting. I don't believe in a single role model. I feel like for different parts of my career, depending on the things I have to learn, there were different mentors to me and role models along the way. First and foremost, my father. He was a doctor and loves to be a doctor. He loves running the practice like the business of running the practice. My first job was doing tax returns when I was 15 years old. My father taught me balance sheets and income statements because he was fascinated and he was thinking of different ways to optimize his business and he share the same with me. My second job was in his office as secretary but he was clearly passionate about the job he was doing. The content of his job which was medicine and also entrepreneurship and running the business. He was from very young age clears want to work for yourself. I would say more recently, I think my role models and mentors have really been at some point of time very relevant to what I have to learn to ramp sure ramp, Google and obviously very notable angel come valley. Before that was the CEO of Jungly, my first copy in the Valley that was acquired by Amazon and I had a pleasure to work with the man. And he was an investor in Yodeli, the company that I joined as a co-founder and then ultimately was also involved with Google where I joined next. From Rome, I learned great skills and I also just learned how important it is to match a great business team with a great product team and Rome as an angel has been very successful in helping to find and integrate entrepreneurs. Rome was certainly one. I think Henry Ryan, one of the founders of Jungali, first company that I joined in the Valley. He is a serial entrepreneur. He is in a company five and he has calm, stability, successful exit, diversity and experience and it turned operating CEO so when I have current issues, I call him and I think about my route in Google. Certainly my boss Kurt Estani who was the chief revenue officer at Google and he was probably employed 13 or something like that build Google's revenue from zero to 23 billion. For me, certainly, I just add what I learn, the skill associated with being a great relationship daughter and a great manager not to say I was but I think I learned from him the important of their skills and he is just the ultimate consistent builder and relationship manager. And also, someday he was able to hire greatly skilled people and let them run. Stan Standberg is now running Facebook, Armstrong is running AOL. These people are on the team and I give credit for figuring out how to hire us, mentor us, harness us and still let us run and build. So, I think the different people are the different points of my career to some of them. Lee: Sukhinder, you have been super fortunate at least from my viewpoint to have such phenomenal mentors. That is really exciting. Sukhinder: Yeah, I certainly felt privilege to get to work with these people. So, I guess my point is it is not just one mentor but there are people you learn different skills and I think at different point of my career, I feel like I had the opportunity to work with these people and certainly some of them go and instilled to them. I go for different type of advice when I think there is something they have to offer me. Lee: So, on to something a little more tough, what is the toughest thing you've had to do in your career? Sukhinder: I think of very tough business challenges, but then I think of the challenges that take their toll on you emotionally. This is often a question I ask others when I'm interviewing them, when I'm interviewing executives to join my team. I often just say, "What's the biggest career mistake you've made?" Which is another way of asking the same question. But I think the things that take the hardest emotional toll on you are not the decision or strategy vantage point perspective you called wrong, because you can two or three or four different paths in a different strategy, and maybe you chose the wrong path, but smart people can have different answers. But the ones that're really tough, honestly, are the ones that surround people, right? Awful, making a decision that someone's not a fit. I think those are the most personally taxing and tough things to do in my career. You know, at Yodelly, certainly, we went through to Boston , we had to lay off people, and it was my first time laying off people. You dissolve a relationship with people, you feel a huge amount of responsibility for people's career and career choices when you bring them into a company, I do. Lee: Yeah. Larry: Oh, sure. Sukhinder: Some of that was recession-driven, but there're other times where it's actually not a function of the recession. Often in cases outside of those extraordinary circumstances, like the Boston 2002, the Internet dark days. It's really actually just about culture set, because the people you hire are, by and large, exceptionally competent. It's whether or not they're a fit with the organization, and it's a place that allows them to thrive. When you see that for whatever reason it's not working, learning to make that decision or call quickly or expediently, expeditiously, is important. Because the cost of not doing it well or quickly is high for everyone. It's high for the organization, it's hard for the person who feels like they're, for whatever reason, not able to get it done. They're feeling frustrated. But it's very hard to bring that conversation to a head, and I've been on both sides of it, right? I've certainly had to make the call when someone wasn't a fit, so I just think that whenever you have people decisions, your own decision to move on from something, or managing someone for whom you need to negotiate whether or not they're going to move on. Those are always the most difficult decisions, because they involve people's lives and careers and you want to do them with the right amount of diligence and care and conscientiousness, but also in a way that is expeditious for everyone. So everybody can move on. Larry: All right, well let's move on, and we're going to lighten this one up a little bit. Let's pretend, right now, you are sitting at your desk or around a table. You had a young person who thinking about becoming an entrepreneur. What advice would you give them? Sukhinder: Well let's see, I think there're tons of bits of advice you can give to young entrepreneurs, and I'm sure you have, in all of these interviews you've done, many greater nuggets than what I have to offer, but...I think if there were two things, and one may be obvious but I don't know if people truly accept it. So clearly one of the key things is to iterate in very quick cycles. I think a lot of times I spent, like, perfecting the business idea in PowerPoint. But the reality is, it's not substitute for customer feedback. As quickly as possible, and as cheaply as possible. So I think before you go out and raise money or create too many PowerPoints, you want to find a quick way to test and iterate on your idea at low cost. And keep trying until you find the nugget that seems to resonate with the consumer. Particularly true in Internet business, right? We're consumer Internet businesses. We can't quite predict how the online consumer is going to react, and what they're going to love, and what they're not going to love. It's not always just rational, right? Some of the web stuff companies weren't built of rational need. They just were launched and tested and iterated on, and they found some resonance with the consumer. So that's one, and it's probably fairly obvious. I think the second one, I think a lot of people say they're self-aware. But honestly, I think as an entrepreneur, you have to become incredible self-aware, and I think that's for a couple reasons. First of all, I think self-awareness revolves around understanding what's your own trademark strength, and what do you excel at, right? And part of building a great company, obviously, is figuring out how you fit and how to do what you're great at. If you can build an entire company around it, around your trademark strength, that's amazing. But quite often, building a great company is bringing into the building and, bringing in a diverse set of experiences. Often that means self-awareness about what you're also not great at, right? Where can you attract and surround yourself with people who have other strong skills that are complementary to your own. If you really want to win, and you really want to grow a company of some scale, I think it starts with self-awareness. Playing to your own trademark strength, and then being very quick. I would say in some ways open to building a company of great, strong, diverse talent that helps complement the skills you have. But it takes both parts, right? Playing to your own strengths, but also being, being pretty clear on your weaknesses, and certainly if you want to scale a company beyond a certain size. It is about recruiting incredible talent to your vision, but with complementary skills. Lee: I have to totally agree with you on that. Larry: Mm-hmm. Lee: I'm going to follow along and ask you, what do you excel at that's made you a fabulous entrepreneur? Sukhinder: Well I think first of all, I think most people who know me would consider me high energy and intensity. I think an entrepreneur for many years, it's about being your own best evangelist, right? Not for you, but for your company's vision. I think that requires a lot of energy. Then you have to be able to do that, and have a surplus of energy, if possible, to give to your team, right? To motivate and bolster them, and let them know it's possible. Again, most entrepreneurs, there's not always a rational need for what they're doing. They're often thinking to where the market is going, right. That requires evangelism. It requires a certain energy and intensity to come to work every day, and when the market's not yet there, or investors don't believe, that you believe, and you're able to convey that belief and conviction to others, with energy. So I think that's one piece. You know, I know how to sell. I spent most of my early career in sales. My college jobs, were summer jobs, were in sales. Then when I arrived in the valley, my functional specialty, if you could call it that, was business development. Business development in every company I've ever worked at correlated with sales. It was revenue-producing. As an entrepreneur, you kind of have to sell. And so I think having core skills that are functional set in sales and being very comfortable with that, has been helpful. And then roughly, I mean, I would circle back to the self-awareness piece. I'm certainly very, very flawed. But I think over the years, being in a variety of leadership situations and having to scale through both successful and failed experiences, I have the benefit of a lot of feedback. And I know what I'm good at and I know what I'm not good at. While I work at what I'm not good at, I try to play to my strengths and find a place where they can be accelerants, to a business or a team, and where they're not, I don't, I guess, pretend to believe that I'm going to become perfect. But I think I'm pretty clear on the areas I need to surround myself with to actually have a fully embodied and diverse team that's capable of getting it done. And so I think years and years, instead of repeated feedback on the same issues has yielded a lot of self-awareness. I think at this stage that what am I good at, and where is it that I need to bring in a strong and talented team to really create, and as I said, some things a team together can win. Larry: Well I like that. Let me throw a little curve ball at you. Now, with all that stuff that you're doing, you've mentioned everything from high-energy and intensity, how to sell, being self-aware, and everything else, how do you bring balance into your personal and professional lives? Sukhinder: Well, first of all, I guess let me start by saying I'm not a believer in balance in the typical way that people talk about it, which is just this ... I have this thesis that people imagine this perfect day, right, where you wake up at six, and you work out for an hour, and then you play with your kids. And then you have a great breakfast filled with protein and carbs, and you work perfectly from nine to six, and you come home and you feed your children and you have wonderful family time, and then you do two hours of email, and you get ... early, this is thesis of what balance looks like and I just don't believe it. I don't believe it, at least for me. I think balance has to be measured in cycles that are far longer than a day, often months and years. Because I think that to do anything well requires a certain amount of energy and focus. To be a great parent requires energy and focus and intensity. To be a great manager requires it, to be great manager requires it. To be a great entrepreneur. To be great at sports. And so, when you think about trying to do things well simultaneously, I'm a believer that kind of the best it gets is that there are going to be periods of your life which are all about work. There are going to be periods which may be all about family. And I measure balance in my life by cycles, there are cycles of time, often measured in months or years, where I know I'm going to have to give a lot of focus or priority to something. And then the best you can do in that situation, is really trying to manage very clearly expectations, which I think of as the multiple shareholders in your life, right. Your husband expects something from you. Your children expect something from you. Your team expects something from you. Inside constituencies. Boards you serve on expect something from you. And the most you can do is actually manage expectations very clearly, like hey, I'm going into a period that's going to require a lot of travel. What are we going to do about it. In the case of managing expectations, what I would say instead of negotiating with your family. There would be other times that you negotiate with work. And you say I'm about to have my third child. I'm going out on maternity leave, but I know we're trying to close a big deal. How are we going to get it done. And so, I guess I don't believe in balance, as by the standard definition. I believe instead, of cycles in your life. And managing expectations with an increasing number of constituencies as your life goes on. And hoping that when you look back on your life, as measured in months or years, maybe it was equally divided between all the things that are important to you, or at least divided between the one or two things that are important to you, in a way that you feel good about. But it's measured in a much longer cycle. And in between, you manage expectations, and you learn to live with a lot of guilt. Lee: Well, thank you for that honest answer. Suhkinder, it's clear you've achieved a lot. And we have thoroughly enjoyed hearing your answers to our questions, and last but not least, we're curious what's next for you. Sukhinder: It's a good question. I don't know. I mean, I think in the spirit of what we chatted about, which is, you want to play to your trademark strengths. For me, it's about working with great teams at high intensity and high RPMs, and feeling honestly that I could move to a place where I could make my maximum impact, and that's about finding a place where my skills are a great fit. And I think it could be pure entrepreneurship, and founding something, or it could be operating at significant scale and complexity. But where the trajectory for a company is high, and navigating it with a smart group of people is important. Both to them and to me. Lee: Well, we wish you great success in your next. Larry: Yes, and we're going to follow up on you too. Lee: So thank you so much for spending this time with us. Larry: You listeners out there, pass this interview along to others that you know would be interested, you can listen to it at w3.w3.com and ncwit.org 24/7, look at our blog, it will be in our podcast directory too. Lee: Thank you so much. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Sukhinder Singh CassidyInterview Summary: Sukhinder Singh Cassidy has worked at companies large and small in their early stages, including Google, News Corp., Amazon, Polyvore, and Yodlee. But before she got into the tech industry, she did the taxes for her father, a doctor. In this interview she gives some great advice about the energy and intensity she thinks are vital to being a successful entrepreneur, as well as the importance of knowing how to sell, and how to be self-aware. Release Date: January 30, 2011Interview Subject: Sukhinder Singh CassidyInterviewer(s): Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 22:10

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Diane Greene Founder, VMware Date: January 31, 2011 Interview with Diane Greene [introduction music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders the CEO of the National Center for Women in Information Technology or NCWIT. With me is Leigh Kennedy, one of our fine board members as well as a serial entrepreneur herself. Hi Leigh. Leigh Kennedy: Hi Lucy, thanks for having me today. Lucy: Also Larry Nelson from W3W3. Hi Larry. Larry Nelson. I'm so happy to be here. This is a wonderful series and what we really like about it, it really helps other people. Lucy: Absolutely, we have great interviews in this series with wonderful entrepreneurs. We are now over 50 interviews in our series and I felt very excited about that. Leigh: Wow. Lucy: Today we are interviewing a person who I consider to be one of the top entrepreneurs I know, co-founder and founding CEO of VMWare, Diane Greene. VMWare is one of those companies I know many of our listeners have heard about because it introduced something really, really innovative, which was a virtualization layer between hardware and software that allows different operating systems to run on the same machine. That was pretty cool and that was one of VMWare's really innovative leads into the market, truly revolutionary. When the company went public in 2007, it was Silicon Valley's biggest IPO since Google, no small accomplishment. So we can't wait to talk to Diane. She left VMWare in 2008, but she continues to invest in companies and to advise entrepreneurs and she serves on very impressive boards, such as Intuit, MIT Corporation and more. Diane, welcome. Diane Greene: Well, thanks very much. It's always good to participate in the entrepreneurial community in any way I can. Lucy: So let's get right to the questions, Diane. We're really interested in understanding how you first got into technology. As you look at the technologies out there today, which ones do you think are especially cool? Diane: Well I've always had an orientation around science and engineering. In high school I built a model bridge with movable trusses and instrumented one of them with a strange gauge. That really launched me into what I found out was called engineering. I was also really active racing sailboats, which meant maintaining them and tuning them which was a lot of technology to keep the boat going fast in addition to racing it. So I would say I started doing things in technology in high school. Nothing like what the kids are doing today with their computers, but certainly technology. In terms of what is out there today that's really exciting, like everybody else, it's mobile connectivity, the social networking, the sensors, particularly around imaging. All these things contributing to our ability to have a digitally enhanced world is tremendously exciting. Larry: Boy, I'll say. I have a feeling that if I was going to try to recruit a relationship with you that if my company started with the letter V, like in Vermont, I would get a little bit further. Lucy: [laughs] Leigh: I didn't understand it, either. Lucy: I didn't understand it, either, that's OK. Diane: It's possible, because I'm puzzled about what you're talking about. Larry: I was just looking at VMWare, VXtreme. Diane: Oh, V, I thought you said Z. That's right, VMWare, VXtreme, completely coincidental. VMware, we were looking for a name and at the time, during the dot com bubble, every URL was taken. So we said "Let's do a placeholder." I thought "Let's just do something really descriptive as a placeholder, virtual machine software, call it VMware." So the name stuck. Lucy: Well, that's an interesting story. Larry: Yeah. Leigh: Yeah it is. Lucy: Diane, I'm going to jump into the next question. Diane: Our PR person didn't want to talk to us because they thought "What a boring name." [Leigh and Larry laugh] Leigh: I think it's a good name. Larry: Yeah, I like it. Lucy: So Diane, I'll jump in to the next question. We're always curious how people that are really into technology and science and they make the leap to be an entrepreneur, which is not always second nature to a lot of technologists. So tell us about how that happened and what it is about entrepreneurship that you love. Diane: Well I've always also been an organizer. I always have started new things. Very early on when I was actually still in high school back in 1971 I got into windsurfing. I was the only windsurfer on the East coast. I started an ice hockey team in college. So I've always, in addition to having an affinity for technology I also like to organize. I like to do things with other people. I think I'm not particularly good at working for other people if our visions aren't aligned. That kind of pushes me towards leading people and being in charge. I think it's a desire to do new things, organize new things and make new things happen. The technology background is just helpful and is why my entrepreneurship is around technology, I guess. Larry: You've done so many different things. I know you're going to have a great career ahead of you, it's just the beginning. In your career path, who was either a mentor or someone who was a role model that really influenced your future? Diane: Well I have to say my family had an enormous influence on me for better or for worse. Then I had an absolutely amazing band teacher in high school that set up a system for measuring how we were doing which made it extremely clear how to get ahead and how to become first chair and then had us all working together amazingly well as a band and as an orchestra to where our little motley crew would go on and win state championships. I had her as my band and orchestra teacher for three years, and I think she had an enormous influence on me. She could have managed a huge [laughs] corporation. She had all those fundamental principles and skills down. Then as I've gone through my career in Silicon Valley in the tech industry, I would have to say I had a mentor at Tandem Computers named Franco Putzolo, who really taught me how to take a measured approach to whatever it was I was doing and helped develop my ability to try and really take the time to always do things well. Lucy: Well, you know when we started the interview we said we get a lot of interesting answers to these questions, and that's the first time we've heard a band teacher. Diane: [laughter] I've only said this one other time, when I was being interviewed at VMware, and the absolutely amazing thing is I got emails from someone else that had been in her band and orchestra and said, "Yes, she was my mentor, too." Lucy: Well, I think that's fascinating and perfectly understandable when you think about a lot of great technologists are great musicians... Leigh: Exactly, yup. Lucy: ...and I can see where a band and orchestra, lots of life skills there. So fascinating answer. Diane, what is the toughest thing you've ever had to do in your career? Diane: Working for other people that I wasn't able to convince them of my vision. Lucy: That's hard. Diane: That really was [laughs] the most difficult thing. Leigh: Yeah, that's always tough, and I think one of the reasons a lot of entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs is they don't like working for other people, so... [laughs] [laughter] Leigh: ...that makes perfect sense. [laughs] Diane: We can have the same vision, but that's not the norm. I mean normally it's the leader that sets the vision and doesn't necessarily take the vision of...it's also formative because when you are the leader you're very sensitive to the fact that you need to [laughs] incorporate everybody else's vision or they're going to feel frustrated. Also, it's good for the company because you don't always have the right vision yourself. At least I don't. But yeah. I do think it drives a lot of entrepreneurship, is this need to work on a vision that you're really passionate about. So you're left with no [laughs] choice but to do it yourself. Leigh: Well, that brings us to our next question. We have a lot of young people and people wanting to become entrepreneurs that listen to our interviews. So if you were sitting here with a young person looking to become an entrepreneur, what advice would you give to them? Diane: If they have a vision of something, there are infinite ways to improve the world. If you really see something that really excites you, then set about doing it and do it right. Don't cut any corners. Go about it with absolute quality in every way you approach it and think it through and execute on it. Larry: Well, I'm tying right in with that. What are your personal characteristics, do you think, that have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur? Diane: I don't start something unless I can really see for myself how it can be done, how it's possible. Then once I see that, I don't think of failure as an option. There's always a way to make it successful, and I'm pretty relentless about that. I think also I really love and get energized from working with other people [laughs] when they're smarter than me, and that's not always hard. So I think those two things, that relentless "There is a way," and then just enjoying finding that way with other people really has helped me have a lot of successes as an entrepreneur. Lucy: Relentless is a word we hear a lot. Leigh: And failure not being an option. Lucy: And failure not being an option. I think that those are great personal characteristics to have. Diane, we ask one other question around how entrepreneurs...it's not so much bringing balance into your personal and professional lives, but how do you integrate them? Diane: Well, I see it as my life. I do what I care about and what I want to do, and so part of that is my family and raising my family, and part of that is going on outdoor adventures, which I don't do nearly as much as I would like to. Building things I think has been a large part of...it's of course been building companies in the tech industry. But there are fundamental principles about how I go about things that are utterly consistent across everything I do, so that integrates them pretty naturally. Leigh: Diane, you've done some just really, really interesting things that were like leading edge in many areas--sports, technology. Tell us about what you're passionate about now or what's next for you? Diane: I'm really not sure what's next. I'm working on it, and I definitely want a big project in my life. Leigh: Well, that's a great answer, too. [laughs] We don't always know, and it's good to know that you're in that spot. Lucy: Well, when you're in that spot, you can pay attention and actually look for the next big project. Larry: There you go. Lucy: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Diane, thanks very much for talking to us. We really appreciate it. I wanted to remind listeners where they can hear this interview, at W3W3.com and also NCWIT.org. Diane: Yeah, and let me just send a word of encouragement to people. I think when you want to do something, you can always do it and make a success of it. Good luck. Larry: Well, thank you for that. Lucy: Thank you, Diane. Leigh: Thanks, Diane. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Diane GreeneInterview Summary: VMware introduced a totally innovative idea: a virtualization layer between hardware and software that allowed different operating systems to run on the same machine. When the company went public in 2007, it was Silicon Valley's biggest IPO since Google. Says founder Diane Greene, "When you need to work on a passion and vision you are sometimes left with no option but to do it yourself. If you see something that really excites you, then set about doing it and doing it right." Release Date: January 31, 2011Interview Subject: Dianne GreeneInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 12:35

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Leila Boujnane CEO, Idee, Inc. Date: January 4, 2011 Interview with Leila Boujnane Lee Kennedy: Hi, this is Lee Kennedy. I'm the CEO of Boulder Search, and a board member for NCWIT, the National Center for Women & Information Technology. This is part of a series of interviews that we're having with just fabulous entrepreneurs. These are women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors, and all who have just fabulous stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs. With me today is Larry Nelson, from W3W3.com. Hey Larry. How are you? Larry Nelson: Oh, I'm magnificent. I'm excited about this interview. This whole series has been just terrific. We get all kinds of people from the entrepreneurs to the executives, and many young people who are looking into getting into this kind of business. Lee: Great. Today we're interviewing Leila Boujnane, the CEO of Idee. That's French for "idea." Hi Leila. Welcome. Leila Boujnane: Hello. Hello. Lee: Now did I get your last name right? Leila: That is correct. Leila Boujnane. It's too many Ns, but yes, that is correct. Lee: Great. Idee's goal is to make images searchable. Idee develops advanced image identification and visual search software. The technology looks at patterns and pixels of images and videos to make each image or frame searchable by color, similarity, or exact duplicates. Did I get that pretty close? Leila: That is very close. That's pretty much exactly what we do. Everything that we do is based on actually looking at what we call an asset. That could be an image or a video. But we'll look at it differently. Instead of looking at a text file or looking at a keyword, or looking at what describes that image, we actually look at what makes that image, so all the pixels that are actually making that image or the frame in a video that you're looking at. Lee: That is so interesting. Larry: That really is. Lee: Tell us a little bit about what happening at Idee lately. Leila: Well, we launched, I would say, the world's most awesome reverse image search engine. I think it is still the largest reverse image search engine out there. It's called Pineye. So basically what you do is you give it an image and it indexes that image on the fly. By indexing, we mean it actually creates a unique fingerprint for that image based on what it sees in the image. Then it compares it to our image index, and it tells you in real time where that image is actually appearing on the web. Lee: Wow. Leila: It does that very seamlessly. If you've played with it, it's as simple as, drop your file here and get results there. It's doing that using image recognition, with a pretty, pretty large index. Our current image index, and these are the images that we've crawled from the web and indexed, is actually close to two billion. We haven't gotten to two billion, but it's very, very close. Lee: Wow. Larry: That's with a B? Leila: Yes... Larry: Wow. Leila: ...With a B, with a big B. Upper-case B. It's been a really, really exciting undertaking for us, because it really brought what we call image recognition-based search to everyone. Anyone that is used to actually going online and searching for an image has been doing that using keywords. When you have this in your head and you say, "Where did this appear?" or, "Who created this?" or, "Where can I get more of this image than I already have?" There wasn't really a mechanism to do that. This was a very good way to actually put image recognition out there and have it solve problems daily for people. Larry: Wow, that's fantastic. One of the questions, of course, that Lucy Sanders likes us to always ask is, how did you first get into technology? If I could couple that with another question, is, what technologies, in addition to the wonderful things you're doing, that you think are real cool? Leila: Well, how I got into technology was completely by accident. I tell people all the time, you can't underestimate the power of luck or accidents, or just what makes you do something when it's not really what you planned. If you had told me more than a decade ago that I would be in technology, I would have just looked at you and laughed and said you didn't know what you were talking about. Lee: Wow. Leila: Because I actually was in med school studying medicine, in Bordeaux, in France, to become a doctor. Lee: Oh my gosh. Leila: I was curious about technology and computers and so on, but I was more of a science-mathematics mind rather than an actual engineering or software type of person. Much to the dismay of my family and parents, I decided that medicine was not for me. I just completely out of the blue stopped my studies and decided to take a year off to figure out what was it that I was really going to be doing, after having grown up... I thought my entire life that when I grew up, I want to be a doctor. I actually never questioned that. Nothing besides medicine ever entered my mind. But when I was studying it, I just realized that it just was not for me. When I took a year off, I actually moved from France to Canada, and completely by accident, met a group of individuals who were starting a software company here in Toronto. They were looking at an addition to their team. I turned out to be a good fit. I just decided to try it and see what happens. If I like it, then that's great. I just needed a bit of a change. After that, I've actually never looked back. I'm amazed that I didn't do that early on in my life. But it was really, really completely accidental. Lee: That's a very cool story. Larry: Yeah. Leila: And scary at the same time, because if you think about how one decides what to do and what career to enter, like this was a fluke. If I hadn't met the individuals that started Algorithmics in Toronto, and if I wasn't talking about being interested in exploring other things, this really would not have happened. Perhaps it would have happened later, but it wouldn't have happened the way most people enter technology or move into working in software. Larry: Yes. What technologies outside of what you're doing do you think are cool today? Leila: You know, it's a bit funny to be asked that question, because in the field that I'm in, I'm in search. I always think all technologies are awesome. Everything that I see out there, you look at it and you think, "Oh my God, this is exciting, it's going to change A, B, or C." But I'm very focused on search. When I look at what I find really, really exciting that's outside of search, I have a tendency to look at any type of technology that allows us humans to analyze really, really, really large sets of information. Like, anything that allows us to visualize that. If you were able to get access to, I don't know, all the war, conflicts in the entire world for the past hundred years. If you had that kind of information, what tool could you use to visualize it? Tools for visualizing information, and also any type of tool that actually allows us to stay in touch and communicate better. When I think about that, and I think, tools like Twitter. But it's not the only thing. But I just think that communications and tools that facilitate communications are really, really transformational tools, for all kinds of purposes, whether it's a mobile device that allows you to sell goods or to stay in touch with family or to book an appointment or confirm something, those are pretty transformational technologies. At least, when I look outside of search, that's what I see. Lee: I totally agree. It seems like with the ubiquitous use of cell phones that all have cameras, it's amazing what's going to images. People are taking pictures of coupons and the little scan codes... Leila: Of everything. Lee: Yeah. Leila: Absolutely everything. Lee: It's really exciting. Leila: Yeah, we find that exciting and strange at the same time. But the reality is that our brains are actually wired to work with images. An image has far more impact on us than a word. If you look at an image and you see something in that, the impact of it is far greater than a word that's displayed to you. If I put a word in front of you and it says "famine" and I show you a photograph, they have very, very distinct and separate impacts. Larry: It is worth a thousand words. Lee: Yeah. Leila: Just about, I think, yes. I think there is some truth to that, that's true. Lee: Leila, I'm curious. You went from your plan to be a doctor, scientist mode, to a technologist. But why are you an entrepreneur? What is it about entrepreneurship that really excites you, makes you tick? Leila: Well, that's something that I've always had. Like from the day I was born, I think, much to the dismay of my mom, I had this thing where I really wanted to do things on my own. I wanted to set my pace. I wanted to do things in particular ways. I didn't want to have anyone else dictate how this should be done, even if the way they are asking for something to be done is actually the correct way to do it. But I have this thing about wanting to figure things out on my own and then set a pace and then run to that pace. That was always there. Even when I was in med school, it was there, which was also a bit of a challenge in that kind of environment. For me, that was very, very critical. So when I started working in a software company and I realized that that's a fantastic environment, or technology is actually a fantastic industry for that, it just confirmed exactly what I always had, which was the desire to do something by myself and build the road and travel on that road. That's always been there. I didn't find it surprising when it materialized into building a firm, but it just took longer to get there. Larry: After you get into the technology part, Leila, who are some of the people that maybe influenced you, supported you in your career path? Sometimes the word "mentors" is used. Leila: Well, for me, it's a bit different, because as I said, I accidentally fell into technology. But once I was there, I figured that this is really something that I'm very, very interested in, so I wasn't really looking so much for encouragement or someone to facilitate that entry. It was pretty much like, roll up your sleeves and figure out what you need to get done, and figure out how to do it. Learn and learn as much as possible. Stay curious about what's happening around you and ask questions. But I couldn't really have done anything that I'm doing today if it wasn't for one single thing, and that to me has been very critical my entire life. That was really, really my mom's desire to make sure, and I'm not sure it's a desire, but the way she brought us up. It was this philosophy of, it didn't matter what you wanted to do. You just go ahead and do it. You might succeed, you might fail. But you shouldn't be questioning, "Can I do this? Will I be good at doing it?" It was like, today I call it overconfidence-building, because it went beyond just making sure that your children have the confidence to undertake or try anything. It was more about, don't let anything stop you from doing something. Actually, don't even ask what that could be. Just go and do it. And that was critical. That was very important. If I were to say, what can be encouraged or what people should have more of in their lives, it would be that. It would be really someone who completely encourages them to try pretty much anything that they want to try, and figure out the other pieces afterwards. There are, of course, a lot of people that you look at and then you think, "My goodness, these people are incredible." You really admire them. Like for me for example, Cheryl Sandburg, the CEO of Facebook. She would be a hero. She would be in my book somebody that I really admire. I'm sure everyone is familiar with, Takushi, who started as a biomedical engineer, but became, at least for me, because I was in the medical field, somebody who actually transformed the batteries used in defibrillators. In the time, and even today, to me, that was just fantastic. That was just incredible. Not necessarily individuals that I related to my field, but just people whose work I admire and who have accomplished so much. Lee Kennedy: Wow. The takeaways I get is your mother basically gave you the confidence and courage that you could do anything. Then you're inspired by some of these other women that have just done really, really exciting things with their career. That's great. Leila: My goodness, yes. You look at what they have accomplished and you just think, "wow. How can they have done all of that in such a limited time? That's so brilliant!" Lee: Every time I do one of these interviews with Larry and Lucy, I get so excited and motivated. I leave that day just feeling like I could conquer the world. Thank you. Well, speaking of all that exciting stuff, I guess on the flip side of the coin, what's been the toughest thing you've had to do in your career so far? Leila: Well, that would have been early in my career. When I started Idee, we actually didn't start as a pure software company. We did a lot of consulting work. We took on a lot of clients that had nothing to do, necessarily, with the world of image search and search technologies overall. That's simply because the company was not VC- backed. It was completely organic. Profits and revenues actually built the company, not outside financing. But at the time, we were taking on a tremendous number of consulting projects, and a tremendous number of new outside clients, a little bit away from our field. There were, generally, I think, great revenues, but it was going to, how do you say that, just keep us from releasing search products because we would be busy solving problems for customers, which was great at generating revenues, but not really working on search problems. I have to say that one of the toughest decisions was to sit down and simply say that we can no longer do that. We are not going to do that. We are going to bite the bullet and restructure the firm to move from a service company to an actual product company. When we did that, it was my decision as well to lay off a number of people that just didn't fit the vision of where the company needed to go. I have to say, reflecting back, that was one of the hardest decisions I had to make. Larry: I'll say. Now if you were sitting down right now, across the table, across the desk, with a young person who is thinking about becoming an entrepreneur, what advice would you give them? Leila: Well, I would say, don't do what I have done, which is sometimes, try to figure things as you are trying to solve a problem. Like, something I have lacked in the beginning of my career was looking at how other people have done things and learning from that. That's something that I've become much better at doing with our board, so figuring out, what is it that I'm good at, and what is it that I'm lacking? Is what I'm lacking something that I can learn, or is it something that I can get by talking to a number of people that have done that, and have done it very, very, very well. It's doing a little bit of an assessment early on, as you decide to become an entrepreneur and to build the company, just figure out what are the few things that you need to do better or learn, and figure out where to get that, and not wait until you are actually battling something to know or to figure out and reach out and try to get that expertise. That would be one thing. The second thing I would say, and I see that happening a lot, don't wait until tomorrow to start something. Lee: That's great advice. It's always easy to think, "Oh, I'll get to that." Leila: Yeah, exactly. Or you know what, this is a really great idea. Let me think about it a little bit longer. Then before you know it, a whole year has gone. Just do it. Lee: Well, along that same vein, you had spoken earlier about how you've always felt this entrepreneurial spirit. What would you say are the personal characteristics you have that have given you an advantage as an entrepreneur? Leila: I think about it as a great characteristic to have. Other people might think about it as something that's pretty awful. It's just one of these things. It's just like, giving up, to be honest, is just absolutely not part of my DNA. It's not part of my vocabulary. It's just like, it's not there. Lee: That's probably the most important thing, because being an entrepreneur, you face so many roadblocks. Yeah, that's awesome. Leila: But sometimes you have to, and I still haven't learned that. I'm sure I need another 10 years. Sometimes you have to stand down and then just give up because something is not going to work. But I have to say, the one saving grace is just exactly that, like, no desire to give up. It's not part of my makeup or who I am. It doesn't even exist. Larry: Yeah, I'm going to have to look up the word "give up" in the dictionary. I don't know what it means either. Leila: There you go, exactly. That's what I should be saying. Exactly. Larry: All right, Leila, I have to ask this. With all the things that you're doing and working on and starting up, how do you do bring balance in your personal and professional lives? Leila: Oh my goodness, Larry. You guys had to ask that question. I don't. I have to be honest. I don't. I don't even try. I know things will fall apart when they do. Then I'll deal with that then. I don't even try. Lee: Well, good for you. You sound like you know yourself. Leila: Exactly. I just like my life, and I know this. I'm a workaholic. My life is very chaotic. It's very fast. It's at times a bit disorganized. At times it's difficult for other people to deal, because I have a lot of balls in the air, and that doesn't change. But I would be lying if I actually said that I look at trying to introduce balance in my life or figure out how to lead a balanced life, because it's just not my personality. I look at things that I'm interested in, and I'm interested in doing them, and I just do them. If it ends up being too much, then I adjust as I'm doing things. But yeah, it's probably something I will have to learn. Lee: Well, good for you. So far it sounds like it's worked. Larry: You bet. If we have a class on that, we'll let you know. Leila: Awesome, yes. I'll attend. Lee: Well, last question we have for you. You've achieved so much in your career. What do you see as next? What's down the road for you? Leila: Well, I'm not very good at looking at the future and predicting, thank God, actually, what may or may not happen. But I know one thing. I will speak again from a business point of view and from what I'm doing currently that is work-related, because that's a very, very big focus. We're just in the very, very early days of search. Everyone has spent the last decade typing keywords into a field to basically get search results. That is actually being enhanced by image searching, by mobile searching, by augmented reality. We are just getting better and better tools to find the needle in the haystack. For me, at least when I think about it, from a research perspective and a software development perspective, these are incredibly early days. My work's not done. I could be working on this for the next couple of decades. This is not really something that I would consider as, "Hey, achieved check mark, and let's move on to something else." It is really the early days of that. Short answer, I'm looking forward to more of the same. Larry: We're going to follow you, too. Leila: That would be great. Lee: That's great. Larry: You betcha. Leila, I want to thank you for joining us today. You listeners out there, pass this interview along to others that you know would be interested. They can listen to it at w3w3.com, and ncwit.org 24-7. Download it as a podcast and we'll have it on the blog also. Leila: I will, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Larry: Thank you. Lee: Thank you, Leila. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Leila BoujnaneInterview Summary: A decade ago Leila Boujnane was in medical school in France, studying to become a doctor. If you'd told her then that she would be involved with technology, she would have laughed and would have said you didn't know what you were talking about. Release Date: January 4, 2011Interview Subject: Leila BoujnaneInterviewer(s): Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 21:50

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Amanda Steinberg CEO and Co-founder, Daily Worth and Soapbxx Date: December 13, 2010 NCWIT Entrepreneurial Heroes [intro music] Lee Kennedy: Hi, this is Lee Kennedy. I'm a board member for the National Center for Women & Information Technology or NCWIT and I also started Bolder Search. And today, we are here to do yet another interview as part of series of interviews that we are having with just fabulous female entrepreneurs. And they're women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors, all of whom just have fabulous stories to tell us. With me, here today, is Larry Nelson from w3w3. Hey, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hey, I'm happy to be here. This has been a wonderful series. We host all the interviews not only in the NCWIT.org website but also w3w3.com and we get very heavy traffic and that makes us feel good. Lee: Super. And also today, we are interviewing Amanda Steinberg, whose professional experience spans entrepreneurship, website and software development, business development, and online community development. So, Amanda is one busy gal and she's had two really interesting ventures going on now. She's CEO and co-founder of Soapbxx. Did I say that right, Amanda? Amanda Steinberg: Yes, you did. Lee: OK. Well, welcome Amanda. We are really excited to have you today. Just a little more about Soapbxx, and Amanda you can expound if I leave anything out, it's a Web 2.0 consultancy firm. Tell me a little more about it, because I'm probably just going to mess it all up. Amanda: No problem. So, yes, I run two companies and I have two children under the age of four. Larry: Wow. [laughter] Lee: Yeah, as parents of three and five kids here, we know what you're up against. Amanda: Yeah, definitely. It gets exhausting but I love every second of all of it. So, yes, I run two companies right now and I'll talk about the management structure of each and how I am able to run two companies in the limited work day that I do have. So, Soapbox is a website consultancy. We are most specifically focused on online fundraising and marketing strategies for nonprofit organizations. I was previously the Internet director for the American Civil Liberties Union and I was able to take that experience from back in 2004/2005 and bring it into a consulting environment. And we have been serving many other national nonprofits in the same capacity of what I did for the ACLU. Lee: Cool. Larry: Yeah, that's fantastic. Now, tell us about the other company. Amanda: DailyWorth.com is a long-time dream of mine coming to fruition. DailyWorth is very simple actually. It is a daily email, a free daily email, that teaches women about basic finance. We currently serve 50,000 members and it's growing quite rapidly. And having run Internet consultancies of one form or another for 10 years, I really was drawn to the "low overhead, high margin" nature of a daily email, daily newsletter company. Lee: Wow, I love it. Larry: Yeah, fantastic. Lee: I'm signing up. Larry: Yeah, my four daughters are, too. Amanda: Fantastic. Larry: Yeah. Lee: So Amanda, we just love to hear about how you really got into technology, and today, what are some of the coolest technologies you think are out there? Amanda: Well, I got into technology, funny enough -- my mother, back in college in 1964, majored in math and minored in computer science. The industry had just come to fruition. Lee: Trailblazer. Amanda: And I think she was the only woman in her class doing this. Lee: That is so cool. Amanda: And then when I was three or four years old, she got her MBA in Management Information Systems. So whereas most kids were doing arts and crafts, my mom plunked me down in front of the computer. And I think I really got into technology. You know, I actually was following a career path of politics, but through many convoluted means I got an administrative position in college where I graduated into doing BB scripting for databases. And despite my leanings -- my extroverted leanings towards politics -- I actually really fell in love with technology in college and realized, "Hey, my brain actually kind of works this way. I think I'm going to do this as a career." Lee: And that is such a cool story because how many of us had mothers that we learned from, at least the technology side. So it's very cool. Amanda: Yeah, it is very rare. It's a very rare situation, indeed. Lee: Yeah. Larry: So, what are some of the technologies that you think today are very cool? Amanda: I'm such an Apple geek these days. I mean, lately, I'm just amazed at how connected I feel to my iPhone, much to my husband's some sadness at times. My latest and favorite technology right now is -- I guess I'll talk about two things. The first is something called HeyTell, H-E-Y-T-E-L-L. It's an iPhone app that turns my phone into a walkie-talkie. So I'm able to have these kind of intermittent conversations with all sorts of people in my life -- anyone that I've convinced to download it. And it is much better than voicemail, but it's more personal than an instant message and I'm really encouraging everyone to try it out. The other thing, from a work context, is that I'm just getting into Skype Group Video Chat. I have probably 12 employees and contractors reporting to me now across two companies and no one is in a central location. So we all talk as a team throughout the day, and I really appreciate the group video technology that enables that. Lee: So glad that you brought that up because it is such a... Well, I should say "underused technology," but so many people are starting to use it and it is so cool. Larry: Yes. I use it from time to time, also. We have clients overseas and that really is handy then. Amanda: Really. Yeah, and the fact that we can all save time and money and a commute, and I can hire my director of marketing in Bozeman, and be coached by my mentor in LA, and I'm based out of Philadelphia. You know, it really just makes all of that so much more fluid. Larry: Yeah, that's fantastic. Lucy Sanders really likes us to ask this question. Why are you an entrepreneur today? Amanda: Oh! How could I not be an entrepreneur? I spent -- in the two years that I spent at the ALCU, which I loved, by 11:00 a.m. I was kind of banging my head against the table because I need to have my hands... I did not like being "siloed" in the IT department. I wanted to be involved in strategy, and I wanted to be involved in creative, and I wanted to... As much as I was in a leadership role there, it just felt segmented for me, and I know that would be the case for me in any corporate environment. And the reality is, is that I really thrived as an entrepreneur. I was the managing director of a website consultancy when I was 22, and I was the top-selling manager there. And I realized that because I'm able to generate business and because I do have certain leadership attributes that I have to be an entrepreneur, it's just not even a choice for me. Larry: Excellent. Well, then what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick? I know you hit a number of points, but is there anything else? Amanda: I just really enjoy setting big goals and working toward them, and building teams and building networks. Despite the fact that I'm a home-based mother entrepreneur, I'm highly extroverted and need to be constantly connecting and interacting with people. So, I'm not sure if that's entrepreneurship that's making me tick or if it is the way that I tick that feeds into the fact that I'm an entrepreneur. But it's kind of this... I love kind of wild chaos towards big goals and seeing things come to fruition. And especially with DailyWorth, as we've grown to 50,000 members and we've signed on sponsors including ING Direct and H&R Block, and we have a pipeline of advertising revenue that makes my heart sing. After two years of constant endless workdays into the wee hours of the morning, I'm really seeing it come to fruition, and it's just -- I can't imagine doing anything else. Lee: I think you've summed up being an entrepreneur. Larry: Yeah, you got it. Lee: It's wild, chaotic, and thriving on it. Amanda: Yes, for sure. Lee: So, you had mentioned earlier that your mom was a big influence that really opened your eyes to the whole IT world. Who would you say have been other role models or mentors? Amanda: I have so many. It's really impossible to summarize. I think everyone I've worked for and worked with, I've learned something in some way. But I guess I'll talk about two in particular that have really helped me as of late. The first is a gentleman by the name of David Ronick. He runs something called upstartbootcamp.com. When I had my idea for DailyWorth two years ago, he was the one who really said, "OK, you need a business model. You need to understand your inflection points. You need to understand the revenue and the funds that you have to raise." And he really helped me put this -- what seemed like a wildly complex business model, spreadsheet together at the time, that now is really the blueprint of how I'm growing the company. So, he's been critical. I recommend that everyone has an MBA to lean on. And then the second person who's really, really transformed my world is a woman by the name of Jen Boulden. She is based in LA. I talk to her... It was twice a day. I think now it's probably three times a week as I've matured. She built the company called Ideal Bite which she successfully sold to Disney two years ago, using a very similar email newsletter model that I'm using. So she, as I joked, she's actually not very nice to me -- she is very nice to me, but she's not there to be nice to me. She's there to hold me to very high standards and point out all of my shortcomings and I've grown so much as a result of having her. I owe so much to her. Larry: Yeah. Boy, that's fantastic. You have two young children. You have two companies that you are running. What is the toughest thing you've ever had to do in your career? Amanda: The toughest thing I had to do in my career, no doubt, was back in 2001, after 9/11. As I mentioned, I was the managing director of a different website consultancy and we had grown to about 20 people and the sales just were not there to support the office. We had really high overhead and it was extremely painful. And I was responsible for laying off five people in a single go at the same time. I know you hear stories about people being fired and how horrible that is and it is absolutely excruciating. It was definitely, probably one of the worst days of my life, when I had to deliver those words to a group of people at once. Lee: I have to say that's probably about 95 percent of the other gals that we've interviewed have said. It seems to be unanimous, almost. Larry: You bet. Lee: So, Amanda, one of the things we'd like to do is have you give your advice about being an entrepreneur. We have a lot of young people, and people that are just starting to think about being an entrepreneur, so what advice would you give them? Amanda: The advice I would give them is that I find a lot of entrepreneurs that are really interested in coming up with their idea, their big money idea. And what I found is that I'm not so particularly interested in entrepreneur's ideas. I'm more interested in their business models, and how those models make money. Because I have seen countless times, amazing ideas fall flat because there wasn't the revenue or the scale to support them. And at the same time, I've seen some businesses entering crowded markets that don't seem so innovative that are really successful because they're simply improving upon one or two things that the rest of the market isn't. So, I would say, look at the businesses that really interest you. What is it about the operations of that business that are really exciting? And then, figure out your idea. That's what I did, and I can't tell you how happy I am that I took that path. Lee: That's great because it's probably a little-known fact that most of the most successful businesses out there weren't started with the actual idea. It morphed and changed along the way to find something that was really successful and a niche in the market at that time. Larry: Yeah. Amanda: Absolutely. Both of my businesses look nothing like what they were when they started. Larry: [laughs] Amanda, what are the personal characteristics, I know you've hit on some as we've gone through this but, that has given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur? Amanda: The first thing is I think I'm a little bit crazy. I don't seek balance in my life. I love to work. Work is very much enmeshed in my life. I am very ambitious, and I think you really kind of need that manic optimism to be successful, because it can just be so hard, so hard on so many levels. So, I think that's been helpful, honestly. I've definitely met other entrepreneurs who I think mirror those traits, and we often kind of laugh about how crazy we feel and yet how instrumental that is in being successful as an entrepreneur. The second thing is just being highly extroverted. I love nothing more than being dropped in a room with a thousand people I don't know. So much of building a business is about building a team and building the people to support you, not necessarily about what you can do on your own. So, I collect people as a hobby. I love -- I'm just genuinely interested in other people, and I think that's absolutely critical to any business as well. Lee: That's cool. Well, you kind of put me in a conundrum here because our next question is how do you bring balance into your...? Amanda: I did that on purpose. [laughter] Lee: So, obviously, you don't bring balance. But how do you survive? Maybe that's the better question. Amanda: You know, it was 11:00 last night, and I was making my son's and my daughter's egg salad sandwich for their lunch, and I was thinking about this slide I needed to update for my investor presentation at 9:00 a.m. this morning, and I really was cross-eyed. I was thinking "Oh, my God! I am in the depths of darkness right now. I am so tired. All I want to do is go to sleep." But somehow, I am able to survive. This is not my long-term plan -- to be living like this -- but I think if you have a certain level of ambition, you have to match it with that energy, and you have to make some sacrifices. I'd say my day is 95 percent energizing and five percent exhausting when I reach the darkness of 11:00 and the lunches still aren't packed, and I still haven't done the laundry to get their socks ready for the next day. So, I'll take that 95 percent positive, five percent pain point for what I look forward to in the future. Larry: Wow. Well, Amanda, you've got two companies that you're working and running right now. You've had successes in the past. Amanda: I've had a lot of failures, too. I've had so many failures. Larry: Oh, I'm so happy to hear that, yes. My wife and I, we started 12 companies and some were learning experiences. Amanda: Yeah. I've started probably seven to date, so, yes. Larry: Wow. Well, what's next for you? Amanda: What's next for me? Well, DailyWorth is really interesting because it's about empowering women in the area of finance. We have 50,000 members, and I know that it's applicable to reach millions of members. So, what's next for me is I'm raising around about 750,000 in Angel capital which will enable me to take my amazing DailyWorth team full time, and work toward our goal -- which is to reach 300,000 by the end of next year, and then a million over the next four years. So, that's really what I'm focused on. Larry: Excellent, that is super. Boy, I want to say that I am so happy that we had this opportunity to interview you. This interview will be heard by many people, many managers, entrepreneurs, and a number of young people who are looking into technology and entrepreneurship, so thank you for all your ideas. Lee: Thanks so much, Amanda. Amanda: My pleasure, and if I could just invite everyone to check out DailyWorth.com. For all the women interested in finance, I invite you to sign up. For anyone in the nonprofit world, Soapbxx -- spelled S-O-A-P-B-X-X -- .com is a great solution provider in the nonprofit space. Thank you. [laughs] Larry: That's excellent, and yes, we will. We'll also put it on our website so that people can link right to it if they hadn't taken that down. They can listen to this 24/7 at w3w3.com and ncwit.org. Lee: Thanks so much, Amanda. Amanda: Thank you. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Amanda SteinbergInterview Summary: Like many women, Amanda Steinberg came to a tech career through a back door. But when she realized that it interested her and she was good at it, she used it to kick-start her career as an entrepreneur. Release Date: December 13, 2010Interview Subject: Amanda SteinbergInterviewer(s): Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 16:13

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Saman Dias Co-founder, AIM Computer Training Date: October 28, 2010 Larry Nelson: This is Larry Nelson with NCWIT, the National Center for Women & Information Technology. And, we are very excited about this series of interviews. We're talking with fabulous female entrepreneurs and women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors all of whom have had fabulous stories to tell us about being an entrepreneur. With me today is Lee Kennedy who is also a serial entrepreneur and founder of Bolder Search. Welcome. Lee Kennedy: Thanks, Larry, it's great to be here. Larry: Yes, this is really excellent. I am excited. My wife and I have started 12 companies over the years. Lee: Only 12. Larry: Only 12, and we really have enjoyed these various interviews. And, today we're interviewing Saman Dias who's an award winning entrepreneur who recognized the value of enterprise scale business technical training when she founded AIM Computer Training. Now, that's the global company which was acquired in 2004. And, Saman went on to lead other successful entrepreneurial efforts in real estate and social networking. She is currently staying quite busy as, among other things, an advisor to entrepreneurs, I can't wait to hear about that, at different companies including ASEAN Incubator. We're really happy to have you here today, Saman. Saman Dias: Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. That was a fabulous introduction, thank you. I'm delighted to be here. Larry: You've got a great reputation. So, let's get into the questions. Saman, could you tell us how did you first get into technology, and as part of a carry on to that is what technologies today do you think are cool? Saman: Yes. It's kind of an interesting way that I got into technology. I'm sure this happens to many folks. But, I originally studied to becoming a doctor and I was studying for the medical college entrance exam. I'm not sure if that's familiar to the U.S. entrepreneurs, but I'm originally from Sri Lanka and that's normally the process before you get accepted to the medical school. And, I had a hard time passing my entrance exam. And, I was getting frustrated and I found that my sisters would be going to college and I would be, too, studying for the medical college exam. And, my uncle said how about computers? And, I had no idea what it meant. This was in the early 1980's. And, I said, "Sign me up." And, that's how I got into technology. Lee: That is so interesting. Well, the follow along question is that's how you got into technology, why is it that you're an entrepreneur and what is it about being an entrepreneur that you find so exciting and makes you tick? Saman: Yes, why are you an entrepreneur? I feel that you can create your own destiny. It gives you the independence. It gives you the opportunity to create wealth and be your own boss. And so, I love that. Larry: Those ideas, I think, would turn a lot of people on. Saman: And, what about entrepreneurship makes you tick I think is the follow on question you asked? Today, looking back, it makes you tick I feel like you can really make a difference. You feel like you contribute and make a difference, not only for yourself, but also to the community, to the company. And from there, taking that, you make a difference to the world because you are helping to create work, you are helping to create jobs, you're helping to create a new innovation. So, that really is huge as far as feeling that you are making a difference in a meaningful way. Lee: So true. Larry: Absolutely. Along the way you've done a number of different things. Who are some of the people who influenced or supported you, in fact, maybe a role model or mentor? Saman: You know, originally it was my father. He gave the freedom to the limit and I think he paved the path to help me to, example, come to a place like the United States and to achieve what I have achieved today. But, I was not really fortunate to have a mentor. And, that's part of the reason that I am today helping many other young women entrepreneurs to get there. I learn really on my own. But, perhaps, following other success stories such as Bill Gates, Pierre Omidyar, Meg Whitman, [indecipherable 05:12] , some of those stories were inspiring to me, but constantly following other successful entrepreneurs and learning from all of those people has helped me. Lee: That's wonderful. Well, you know, we all know and have heard the story being an entrepreneur is not exactly easy. So, if you think back about your career, what was the toughest thing you had to do? Saman: I think the toughest thing getting started was taking that risk. Taking the risk of perhaps leaving a full time job that you had your comfort zone and walking away from something and then starting a business with no revenue and living off of your credit card to get you off the ground and build your revenue. And then, along the way, doing the business and running the business, one of the toughest things I had to do was sometimes walking away from a client who's either giving revenue to you or wanted to give revenue and that you felt it wasn't thing for the company. That was difficult. Lee: Yeah, I can definitely see that. And, yeah, the first point you made about the risk of leaving a secure job or employment, I think that is one of the toughest things. You've got a great job and to be an entrepreneur, like you say, you're leaving all that behind and with no money coming in and putting stuff on your credit card. Saman: Yep. And, I think many entrepreneurs can relate to that because there's a huge risk factor. And, entrepreneurs are you have to be risk takers, not just when you first started the company, but as you grow the business, every step of the way there's a risk element that you take. That is the hardest thing is take that risk and make that decision to move to the next step. Lee: Exactly. Larry: Well, with your background and experience, and if you were sitting down right now at the table or over your desk and there's a person who's talking about entrepreneurship and looking into it, what advice would you give them? Saman: I would give them follow your passion. Follow your heart. If you have a passion or an idea for any business, take that and follow your passion. But, do know and understand that when you become an entrepreneur, there is putting in hard work. And, you can continue to keep working hard and making your business successful if your passion is about what you're doing. Then, it doesn't become a chore. It doesn't become oh, I don't want to get up in the morning and go to work. You will do everything that you can possibly do to achieve that dream if you're excited about it. Lee: It's so true because if you're excited about what you're doing, it makes all the difference. Saman: Yes. And, entrepreneurship is hard. Starting a business is hard. Keeping it together is hard. There are a lot of obstacles that you have to go through, but then at the end you have tremendous reward. And, you're not going to see that reward right away. And, once you make that decision, there's no way of going back. You want to keep going forward, and you can do that if you have something that you're very excited about. Lee: I agree. Now, earlier we were talking about being an entrepreneur, there's a lot of risk involved, and other characteristics. What would you say are the personal characteristics that you have that have given you advantages as an entrepreneur? Saman: Yeah. For me personally, I'm really creative. Some of my staff used to say that Saman always sees windows and not walls. In other words, I will always find a way to get from A to Z than giving up. And, I think that has tremendously helped me to succeed that you are creative and I don't take a no for an answer. And, I'll always figure out a way to get it down or a way to make it happen or a way to hire somebody or a way to get through to a customer. So, I have been able to take advantage of that particular character that I have. Larry: Well, let me ask this question. You've done a lot, you're doing a lot and you're working with other people helping them along the way. How do you bring balance into your personal and professional lives? Saman: I bring balance by not only working and running a business, but really getting involved with activities. I love different types of competitive sports. Specifically, I play tennis and I compete. I play for the USDA tennis team. And, I'm always constantly learning a new sport. Recently, I started learning how to do stand up paddle boarding and I can barely swim. So, I'm learning how to swim and doing paddle boarding in the ocean in Hawaii. So, I constantly look for outside activities that involve either a competitive sport, as well as I do a lot of work related to giving back and helping others. And so, that also brings a balance because it allows you to give back your knowledge and share your knowledge, as well as learn from others. Lee: That's wonderful. And Saman, it's clear you've given back, you've achieved so much in your career so far. What do you think is next for you down the road? Saman: Right now that's really a good question. Next for me down the road I see myself being involved in advising start up entrepreneurs and helping them to grow their business and be really involved in that process. I've never had that opportunity. So, I'd really enjoy being able to share my knowledge either in a advisory capacity or as a board member and keeping my eyes and ears open for something creative, another business, a business idea that may come along, or perhaps to lead another company as an executive down the line. Larry: I have a feeling you're going to do a marvelous job with a bunch of companies. Saman: Yes, I love that. I love that. Larry: Well, I'm going to thank you, Saman, for joining us today. Lee Kennedy and I have enjoyed this. We always like talking to the successful entrepreneurs. Lee: Thank you so much, Saman. Saman: Thank you so much Larry: And by the way, you listeners out there, you know you can go to ncwit.org or w3w3.com and listen to this interview and other NCWIT interviews 24/7 it's on a podcast. And, pass this interview along to others that you know would be interested. Saman: I will definitely do that. Thank you so much. Lee: Thank you. Saman: Goodbye. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Saman DiasInterview Summary: Saman Dias is a person who "sees windows, not walls." She thinks her success as an entrepreneur has been due in part to an unwillingness to take no for an answer, and her ability to always find a way to get from A to Z. Release Date: October 28, 2010Interview Subject: Saman DiasInterviewer(s): Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 12:37

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Dr. Marcie Black Co-Founder & Chief Technology Officer, Bandgap Engineering Date: August 23, 2010 NCWIT Entrepreneurial Heroes [intro music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT and with me is Larry Nelson, w3w3.com Internet radio. Larry Nelson: Yes. Lucy: And we are very happy to be doing one in a series of interviews with women who have started IT companies and we love this series because there is so much wisdom with these entrepreneurs that everybody can benefit from. Larry: Yes, it's very exciting and we get a tremendous amount of business leaders, parents, all with different ages of people who tuned in and listen to this and we are very happy because we know that we need a lot of encouragement in this area. Lucy: Absolutely and very excited about today's interview. We are interviewing an entrepreneur who is helping the world solve our energy problems. We all know energy is a very important topic, very hot topic and the person we are interviewing today is a very impressive one. She has very impressive technical credentials with a PhD from MIT and also post doctoral work at Los Alamos laboratory. So, very, very well credentialed to take on the energy problems of the world. So, just to get right to it. We are interviewing Marcie Black who is the CTO and co-founder of Bandgap Engineering. And we are going to let her tell us a little bit about what the company does but in brief, they pioneered the development of highly tunable and inexpensive methods for nano structuring silicone and they are applying that technology to high efficiency solar cells. So, Marcie, first of all welcome and why don't you tell our listeners what this technology is all about. Marcie Black: Lucy and Larry, thank you for having me. It is a pleasure to be here. So, Bandgap Engineering is reducing the cost of solar electricity and the reason why we are doing that is there are a lot of trade-offs in producing electricity and by moving to renewable energy source, we can lessen some of those trade-offs. And solar is the only renewable energy source that has the potential of being or dominant energy supply. So, there's a couple of ways to reduce the price of solar electricity so that it is cost competitive with conventional sources. One of the ways is by reducing the cost of processing the semi conductors. But another way is increasing the efficiency of the solar cell and by increasing efficiency means that you can get more power over the same area of the solar cell. So, what Bandgap Engineering is doing is increasing the efficiency of the solar cell while keeping the cost per area constant. And that effectively will bring down the cost of electricity from solar energy making it cost competitive with other conventional energy sources. And as you mentioned the way that we are increasing the efficiency is by nano engineering silicone so that it's a better converter of energy from optical energy to electrical energy. Lucy: Wow. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: Now, see, I just write softwares. I'm pretty impressed. Larry: No small thing. Lucy: It is very important and it is a young company, isn't it Marcie? Marcie: Yeah, we are about three years old. Lucy: Awesome. So, how did you first get into technology? You obviously love technology and I think our listeners would be very curious to know how you first became interested in it and besides, the nano technology which you are using today, other technology that you see are especially important. Marcie: Yeah like many engineers. I've emerged from very early on. So, I remember when I was very young, my father who was also an engineer would take me to the basement and we'll build electronic circuits and radios and do all kind of cool, crazy stuff in the basement. But when I got older, I didn't explore. At AT&T Bell Labs and what that was I call that branch of boy scouts and we were able to go into AT&T and basically, play with other toys. So, play with their softwares, computers and play with some of their electronic stuff. And that I really developed a love for understanding how things work and using that knowledge to build something from it. I say that's my first exposure to technology. And as far as what technologies I think are cool, for me what's cool is the applications. So I get very excited when a technology comes out that has the chance of really improving the world. And I think that right now we're at a very critical point in history where there's a lot of technologies that are coming out that will help us live in balance with the world around us. And I find that very exciting. So it's not just renewable energy. But for example, I read about some technologies that can take salt water and turn it into fresh drinking water without using very much electricity to do it. And I find that very exciting. Also a lot of the work with the Smart Grid I find very interesting. So right now it costs a lot more money to produce electricity when all of your neighbors are using electricity, but it doesn't cost very much to produce it in the middle of the night when no one's using it. So a lot of the technologies out there are to help levelize that load, which is good for conventional energy sources but is also good for renewables as well. And there's also a lot of battery technology out there that I find very interesting and has the potential of being storage for the national grid. So I like looking at how all the pieces of the puzzle fit together, and seeing how this critical time in history is going to unfold to the point that we are burning less coal and living more in harmony with our surroundings. So I find that very exciting. Lucy: Well and we do too. We just interviewed the CTO of WiTricity, wireless electricity. And that was just fascinating. That whole area is so interesting. Larry: It sure is. Now Marcie, here you are a "nerd." You've been with some magnificent companies, from Lucent and AT&T and all, and certainly a crossover with Lucy's background also. But why are you an entrepreneur and what is it about you that makes this entrepreneur tick? Marcie: I never woke up and said, "I think I want to be an entrepreneur." For me it was more about how to best get technology into the marketplace. And so I worked in government labs, and academia, and big industry. And they all have a piece in the puzzle. But I think if you are really driven by taking an idea, and making a product out of it, and getting it into the consumers' hands, I think the fastest way to do that is in a small company. And so for me that's part of what makes me interested in being an entrepreneur. I also really enjoy in a small company the team atmosphere. And how everyone is working together to make the company move foreword and helping each other just to make it work. I find that very motivating in doing a small company. Lucy: Well we almost have to work together. Larry: Yes, you bet... Marcie: Right, right. Otherwise the company won't succeed. Lucy: Absolutely. It is true. We were just reading... I forget where it was that a lot of the smaller companies now are where real innovation is going on. The adaptation of ideas and so forth, that's where a lot of the job creation is right now as well. So it is an interesting time in start-ups. So along the way you mentioned that you had had this time with Lucent and time with Bell Labs where you could be in the labs and tinker with things. And that your father encouraged you from an early age. Who else has encouraged you in this path? Being a technologist, of taking risks, and being an entrepreneur? Marcie: That's a good question. I felt very fortunate to have had so many people really help me throughout my career at different times. So when I was young I mentioned my father introduced me to the love of science and engineering. And later on a lot of my professors really taught me how to think critically and understand technological problems. And into my Ph.D. my advisor was Professor Millie Dresselhaus, and she taught me. She's a very hard worker. She works all the time. And that taught me the value of a strong work ethic. And throughout my career there have been other people. Like now there are quite a few people including my board members and other mentors that help me on how to learn the new set of skills that you need to know when you're starting a business. So I can't really pin down one person. There's been a whole bunch of people that have been very nice to help me out throughout they years. Larry: You've done lots of very interesting things, and I would like to ask the question: What is the toughest thing that you've had to do during your career? Lucy: [laughs] There's been a lot of things that have been tough throughout my career, but I have to say the most difficult is probably starting Bandgap, because there are so many aspects that have to come together in order to make a company successful. So, when you're doing research, you have to get the technology right, and the engineering right. But, in a small company, you also have to get the IP right, and the culture right, and set up a good infrastructure in the company. There are million different things to think about, that all have to come into play in order for the company to be successful. So I find that both challenging and rewarding at the same time, but it's definitely the most challenging part of my career so far. Lucy: I have a follow up question to that. We don't really interview many cheap technology officers; we will interview founders or CEOs. So, our listeners may want to know, what is the role of a CTO in a startup company? How would you describe what you do in Bandgap? Marcie: I think it's funny because I've been talking to a lot of my other CTO founder friends, and what we've decided is that the title really doesn't mean much. It basically means you do what needs to be done to make the company successful. So, different people end up doing very different jobs with the same title. So, some people are in the labs, working side-by-side with their people, and other people are filing patents and writing grants. And other people are doing all of the above. So, I think it depends on the company and what the company needs, as well as what the CTO founder wants to do. Larry: Good point. Lucy: Great answer. I think that the role of CTO is pretty broad in a lot of companies. And I think it's really good advice hidden in what you just said: don't get hung up on the title. When you're in a startup company, everybody's there to row the boat and it doesn't really matter what they're doing, as long as the boat's moving forward. If you were talking to a young person about being an entrepreneur, what other advice would you give them? Marcie: I wouldn't advise people specifically to be an entrepreneur, even though I love it. What I'd advise them to do is, really figure out what drives them. And I think, don't take this the wrong way, but if what drives them is making money or having proceeds, it's probably not the best route for them. [laughter] But, if what drives them is, for example, bringing technology to the market and trying to make the world a better place through their technology, then I would advise them to become entrepreneurs. Once they decide to become an entrepreneur, my biggest advice is to follow your passion and do what you enjoy and what you really believe in. Because if you believe in something and you work hard at it, you're much more likely to be successful. Lucy: So, let me rephrase the question just a little bit, then, and ask you: how would you interest a young person in pursuing technology today? What would you say to them that might hook them to get that interest? Marcie: Well I did technology simply because it was fun. Lucy: Yeah. [laughter] Marcie: But then, as you know, I worked on it more, I got good at it and then it made sense for me that I stay in technology. So, I guess I would probably invite them to a lab and play in lab with them, so they could see how much fun it was. Lucy: It is a great deal of fun. I'll come! [laughter] Larry: There you go. I'm there. Lucy: I'm there. Larry: What are some of the characteristics that have given you the advantage of being an entrepreneur? Marcie: That's a good one. I've noticed that all the successful entrepreneurs I know are very optimistic, and I am definitely optimistic, as well. But you can't be blindly optimistic; you have to be what I call "realistic optimist". You can't have your blinders on, but you do have to be able to see a way that the company can be successful, and arrange it so all the parts fall into place, so that task remains clear and you can move forward down that path. So I say optimism. Also persistence and work ethic are also very important and seem to be consistent among the successful entrepreneurs that I've met. Larry: Marcie, thank you very much for that. I agree 100 percent. Marcie: Are you optimistic and working hard? Larry: You got it. Lucy: Larry's an entrepreneur too. Many times over, we're both insane about entrepreneurship. So, we totally get it. Larry: Well, I only heard the word insane, but that's OK. Lucy: That's OK too. So it is hard work to be an entrepreneur and you do need to have passion and you need to be motivated, I think, truly by bringing innovation out into the world. And yet entrepreneurs do have personal lives and struggle sometimes to bring balance between the professional and the personal lives. What do you do to attend to this issue? Marcie: It's a tough one. I think what allows me to be able to do both, is that I really enjoy both my jobs. When I say both my jobs, my other job is I'm a mom. I have two wonderful children. And so I go to work and I love my job. And then I come home and I'm with my kids and I really love being their mom as well. And so, that makes it a lot easier and allows me to work many more hours because it reenergizes me. Lucy: That's exactly right, I feel. I mean I honestly think that where I saw young parents who were struggling a lot between, with this balance issue, it was when work had become tedious. Larry: Right. Lucy: And they had to give up a lot. They had to give up being with their children for a job that they didn't find fulfilling. And so this notion that you need to be in love with both of them, I think is very sage wisdom. Larry: Yes. We love all five of our children too. Marcie: Yeah. And I guess I feel fortunate that I've managed to get a job that I really love. Larry: That's great. Lucy: I somehow think that you're always going to have jobs you really love. Larry: I think so too. Lucy: I think so too. Larry: Now, you've already achieved a great deal. And I realize your company today is only three years old. But what's next for you? Marcie: I won't be happy with what I've achieved until our cells have replaced the coal plant. So, I guess the first answer to that is to build Bandgap up to the point that we're producing a significant amount of solar energy that is making an impact on our electricity production. And it's not just building a big company. I want to build a company that obviously makes money and impacts the world. But also, at the same time, I'm hoping to build a culture where people can grow professionally at the company. Where they can come and contribute, but also improve themselves as well. So when I do that, then I'll feel like I've had a successful career. And then probably the next thing that I would accomplish is traveling all over the world. Larry: Ah-ha. Lucy: Ah. Where do you want to go? Marcie: Oh. I would love to go to Africa. And like Egypt and yeah, many places actually. I very much enjoy the music of Africa and would love to go visit it. Lucy: Wow. I've never been there. Plus I know you're in Boulder, Colorado. We have a coal plant that you could replace. Larry: Yes. That's right. Lucy: And we could turn it into a shopping mall. Marcie: That would be great. Lucy: It's rather unsightly. Larry: It's not Africa here but it is Boulder, so maybe we could get you here. Lucy: We'll introduce you and maybe you could talk them out of their coal plant. That would be awesome. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: Thank you so much for talking to us Marcie. And you have a great company with a great mission and a great background. And we didn't even get into your background around your authorship and journals and patents. You're truly a technical expert in this area and I know your company's going to succeed. So, thank you so much for talking to us. Marcie: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Larry: Yes. And we're going to follow up on you, so be careful. Lucy: Oh, and you have to remind people where they're going to find this. Larry: Oh yes. You can also listen to this interview 24/7 at w3w3 dot com and the NCWIT channel. And you can download it as a podcast. We'll make sure we have it on the blog. And Marcy, thank you so much. Lucy: Thanks Marcie. Marcie: Thank you. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Marcie BlackInterview Summary: The mission statement on Bandgap Engineering's website says nearly everything you might want to know about what drives its co-founder and CTO, Marcie Black: "Our motivations are many and varied. We want to mitigate the impact of humans on climate change and ease the global political tensions caused by competition for scarce fossil fuels. As parents we are inspired to leave the world a better place for our children and their children. As entrepreneurs we love the thrill of a startup and think our technology represents a very, very good business opportunity. As scientists and engineers we are motivated to tackle difficult and very meaningful technical challenges." Release Date: August 23, 2010Interview Subject: Marcie BlackInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 18:04

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Julia Hartz Co-Founder & President, Eventbrite Date: July 12, 2010 NCWIT Entrepreneurial Heroes [music] Lee Kennedy: Hi this is Lee Kennedy, board member for the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. And we're here today as a part of a series of interviews that we're doing with extremely interesting entrepreneurs. These are women who have started IT companies in just a complete variety of sectors, and they all have just very cool stories to tell us. Today with me is Larry Nelson. And Larry is from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi, I really am happy to be on this show. And by the way there are so many parents and so many managers and leaders that listen to this show. So that's why we're tapping into all these great entrepreneurs and leaders. Lee: Great. And we also have Lucy Sanders who is the CEO for NCWIT. Thanks for joining us Lucy. Lucy Sanders: Hi Lee. Very happy to be here. And I wanted to mention that very often our entrepreneurs that we interview for this series are showing up more and more on the top 10. To watch the top 10 there, the most in this region, so the women we're interviewing are just top five entrepreneurs. Larry: You bet. Lee: Cool. Just to get right to it today we're interviewing Julia Hartz. And Julia is the co-founder and President of EventBrite. And EventBrite is the leading provider of online event management and ticketing services. Is just a really cool company, and Julia has brought the creative and energy of the entertainment business. She was at MTV formerly. Lucy: Oh wow.  Lee: Welcome Julia. Thanks for coming here today. We're looking forward to talking with you about entrepreneurship. Julia Hartz: Thank you. I'm really honored to be here. Lee: Wonderful. So can you tell us a little bit about what's going on at EventBrite lately? Julia: Oh goodness, a whole lot. Well, we were originally founded in 2006 by my husband and I and our third co-founder Renaud Visage, our CTO. And since that we bootstrapped the company. We were just three people for two years, very product focused. But I'm happy to report that we are now nearing 60 employees. So it's quite a different company today than it was even back in 2008. On the topic side we're just really focused on making life simpler for the organizers, and delighting our customers through innovations of simple tools they can use to publish event pages, promote their events to a wider audience, and sell out their events. So sell more tickets to their events. And we're also now looking at our relationship with ticket buyers. Now that we've helped event holders host over 200, 000 events, obviously that there is a larger accumulation of attendees that are now coming back to EventBrite to find out about more events that they want to attend. So that's a current feature trend that we're seeing. Lee: Well you know NCWIT runs events, so we could well be one of your future customers. Julia: [laughs] I'll give you the sales pitch. Lee: All right. [laughs] Julia: On a different time maybe. [laughs] Lee: Yeah. I would love to hear more. We find that running events can be very time consuming. So it sounds like EventBrite is on to something. So Julia, the first question is about technology. And first of all, how you became interested in technology? And also really interesting technologies that might you see on the horizon that would interest our listeners. Julia: All right. So my career as you said it before began in television. I was a development executive at MTV, and I worked the first season and the first movie of a little project called Jackass. Sorry, I'm not sure if I can say that on radio. And then I went on to FX Networks, and I worked on shows like Nip/Tuck, The Shield, and Rescue Me. So my career there was really high in creativity, and it was definitely pushing me up a little as they were in cable television, and the projects they worked on. But it was very well in technological innovation. So we found it very hard to break the traditional distribution mold as well as the traditional advertising mold for that matter. So my last year at FX I spent a lot of time on product placement, which was sort of a thankless job, trying to make sure that the label of the beer can was pointed in the right direction at all times in a scene. I started to get the inkling that there was something out there that would make me feel fulfilled, and I was lucky enough to meet Kevin about two years before I left television. I was able to see him start a company from inception. I was sold. Two years later I was ready to leave my traditional career and take the leap. So that's how I first got into technology. I felt like it would be something I would feel, I wanted to be ahead of the curve instead of trying to chasing trends, which I felt like we were doing in television at the time that I was working at MTV and FX. Technologies that I think are cool? Kevin is an avid angel investor and adviser. By virtue of that we were really lucky to be involved in a lot of different companies and see a lot of great trends come out of those companies, and very bright people. I always say that what I feel like is cool right now for me personally is not exactly original. But it is in the way of communication and information dissemination and I'll give you an example of how that applies to me and why I think it's cool. We were recently on a trip and our trip itinerary was shared with our family and anybody else who needed no know where we were through TripIt. We were not in touch with our family during the trip so I posted mobile photos of our two-year-old on Facebook so that my mom would know how she was doing at all times. In our company we share information through Yammer and we also share expenses through Blippy. Then, on the social side oftentimes, I'm checking in through Yelp to let people know where I am in case they're in the same area. We live in the city so it's not so large. So that idea that I can instantly broadcast and disseminate information easily and with no friction is really huge for me today being an entrepreneur and a mom. Larry: Well, entrepreneur and a mom, and you got this "techie" background, why are you an entrepreneur? Also tying in with that, what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick? Julia: I'm an entrepreneur because I believe that I can change an industry. I also love helping to build something that people want and that's extremely valuable. I feel day-to-day glee in making a difference, in working on projects that are both very large scale and very small scale. I also feel like being an entrepreneur, for me, I feel like I'm part owner in a movement. So I think if I were to sum it up, being an entrepreneur and being a parent, I feel equally about both. [laughs] So EventBrite is very much our baby and there is just something inherently satisfying about working on something that you feel such ownership and passion about. That's what entrepreneurship means to me. That's what excites me about it. Lucy: That's great. So Julia, who would you say influenced you or was a role model or mentor along the way to get into being an entrepreneur? Julia: The reason why I took the leap and didn't hesitate was because of Kevin. Entrepreneurship comes like second nature to Kevin, and he had founded two companies before that. So I really believed that everything would be OK [laughs] and that somehow, someway we would succeed. So for him there was just no question that he wanted to always be an entrepreneur and it was almost like, "Why not? Why not come work for free with me and see what we can do and how we can change the world?" So really he's the one that influenced me first and foremost. Our families really support us along the way. They're very unconditional about everything we do. As far as role models go, we have mentors in Michael and Xochi Birch who are a married couple who founded a few companies. But most notably and recently Bebo, they founded together. They gave us some great advice in the beginning, which was divide and conquer. As a married couple if you're working together never work on the same thing at the same time. Not only is that sort of a recipe for disaster if you're behind the same spreadsheet in trying to share them out, but also you get from point A to point B two times as faster, even maybe faster, because you have complementary skills. And that very much applies to Kevin and I. We divide and conquer in everything we do. At this point in the game we work on very different aspects of the business, and actually get to catch up at the end of the day. And ask each other how each others day went. And my parents are role models because just everything that they've done they've done with a lot of grace. And finally, two-year-old daughter Emma is a huge role model to both of us. Because I think, for me it's because she never backs down from wanting to know why. She doesn't settle for an answer that she can't completely believe. She can definitely be a role model for us in many different aspects. Lucy: Well, I certainly think parenting has taught me up. That's for sure. She probably got a double dose of entrepreneurship. We'll have to see what she ends up starting. Lee: Or determination. Lucy: Or determination for sure. So Julia along the way you've been encouraged, you started a company, you've worked in entertainment, you've had a great career so far. What's the toughest thing in your professional career you've ever had to do? Julia: The only thing that I dread and the toughest part of this gig is coming to the realization that a team member is not a right fit, and having to let them go. And for us it's been, we haven't had to let go many people, and that's great. But it's really hard when you're building a team, because you feel like this is your family. And for me, I feel like each person on our team is like an athlete. I have to keep them like well-feed and you know hydrated, and well, and out of the tabloids. [laughs] I want to take care of everyone who works at EventBrite. And to have to part ways with somebody is by far the toughest part of this gig. Secondly, I think making decisions that I feel like are going to maybe not sit well with our customers. And our interests have been extremely aligned with our customers since the inception of EventBrite. And we really built EventBrite through having a dialogue with our customers and understanding event organizers' pain-points, and how can we alleviate them through technology. But making decisions like pricing changes it's totally agonizing. And we have a story where we went from a freemium service to offering a free service and paid service, to just a completely paid service. And we fretted over it for months. And when we finally reached the decision and pulled that cord, not only did we not see the turn that we had expected, but we saw our conversion go up. Because people who were coming to the site going to have to make that decision over or whether not to sign for the free or paid service. So these kinds of decisions are really tough for us. And I feel like one thing we could have done better is not fret so much over it, and believe in our product, and our ability to delight our customers. Larry: That's great advice. So one of the things we wonder about and always ask and that is if you were sitting down right now with a person who's considering becoming an entrepreneur or just starting to be an entrepreneur what advice would you give them? Julia: I think that if you're going to do it you have to jump in. I mean I feel like when I visualized the leap that I took from a corporate secure job to running EventBrite and working on this project, I envisioned myself jumping in with my eyes closed, head first and all hands and feet in. I mean I don't think that it's possible to have success without completely committing yourself. So whether that is committing yourself completely mentally, or if it's mentally, logistically and financially you really have to put all your skin in the game to actually have a chance. Most start-ups don't' succeed and I think that it's for obviously a variety of reasons. But first and foremost, if you're going to choose entrepreneurship, you have to commit in every fiber of your body. Lee: The word devotion comes to mind. Lucy: Yeah. Julia: It takes a lot of devotion. You can't have one put in and one put out. It doesn't work very well. Lee: So, on the same note what it takes to be an entrepreneur, there's certain personal characteristic that everyone thinks of that makes us entrepreneur successful. What would you say are your personal characteristics that have given you the advantage as an entrepreneur? Julia: So, me personally, I feel like I have a very strong willingness to pitch in. Now, that we are 60 people and our roles as founder, I feel like at this point I do not get in the way of greatness. We hire very, very smart, capable, talented people and we need to let them have their freedom to really change this industry. But on the flip side, I am always willing to pitch in and help so whether that be any sort of mundane task. It is not mundane to me because it contributes towards the success of the EventBrite, of my baby. So, that willingness to pitch in is key. I also have an ability to be objective. So, because of my first start up, I'm not very dated and everything is very new. I try to just come about it and to have a fresh perspective and being very objective about everything that is happening and not ever feeling like we have to be status quo. We are actually trying to disrupt an industry, the ticketing industry, and so to look at it from a fresh perspective is an advantage in many different aspects of running a start up. And, finally I feel like I'm a 110 percent committed. I mean I feel extreme honors over EventBrite in a way of like I really care about it and I care about everybody who works on changing the world with us. And so, commitment and then accountability really being accountable for the bad things and the good things. I think that makes a big difference. Lucy: Julia, you've mentioned that you travel and you mentioned your family and you mentioned your devotion to EventBrite. So, we're curious. We always ask this question. How do successful entrepreneurs bring balance into both their personal and their professional lives? Julia: Right. So, first of all you have to prioritize and you have to perhaps write it down on a white board. What is most important to you and then write everything up. I mean we talk a lot about [inaudible 15:15] optimization here and I kind of feel the same way about balancing your life. For us, it is an interesting talent because EventBrite is very much our first baby and we have and I who is a part of this process. So, instead of dividing them into two things, we feel like we are in it together. Sort of cliché to say but it is very true. It takes a village and for me personally, I have to find my vortex of happiness so that for me is being a great mom and being a great entrepreneur. I have to be confident enough to ask for and receive help from our village of family and friends. And I have to prioritize. And so, I have to note that if push come to shove, what would I do in each scenario and how do that emergency sort of exit plan. That is also very applicable to working with your spouse. And so, I feel like for us, our family and our friends and our daughter, they are in it with us and so they feel invested and understand what's going on as well. Larry: Well, you have already achieved a great deal. You are doing a lot. You are young. You are building a family. What's next for you? Julia: My goal for EventBrite is to grow the service and to the only place you would ever go to buy a ticket for any event you would ever attend. And then secondly, I want to have more kids. Lucy: There you go. Julia: It gets a little bit harder to scale for some reason I don't know. I look at it and I'm like, I am pretty sure one plus one doesn't equal to so we'll see. [laughs] Larry: Well, I've got five kids and my wife and I are in business together so it works. Lucy: I have three. Julia: I need to sit down and pick your brain. Lee: Well, thank you so much Julia for talking to us. We really appreciate it. I want to remind our listeners where they can find this interview. w3w3.com and NCWIT.org and please do pass this along to other people who would be interested in listening to it. Thanks very much Julia. Julia: Thanks so much for having me.  Larry: Thanks, Julia. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Julia HartzInterview Summary: Julia is a reformed Television Network Executive and comes to Eventbrite by way of FX Networks and MTV. "I'm an entrepreneur because I think I can change an industry. I also love helping to build something that people want. Being an entrepreneur, for me, I feel like I'm part owner in a movement and there is just something inherently satisfying about working on something you feel such ownership and passion about." Release Date: July 12, 2010Interview Subject: Julia HartzInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 17:20

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Margaret Burd Founder, President, & CEO, Magpie, Inc. Date: June 1, 2010 Entrepreneurial Heroes Interview with Margaret Burd [intro music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of the National Center for Woman and Information Technology, or NCWIT. Larry Nelson from w3w3.com is here today. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi. Yes, I'm really anxious for this interview. Lucy: Well, this is one of a series of interviews that we do with women who have started IT companies. Many of them are serial entrepreneurs in all different types of IT sectors. We ask them for their advice on being entrepreneurs and the pathways that they've taken to be successful. It's a great series. We've had a lot of interest in it. We have another great entrepreneur with us today, a good friend of ours and, I must say with great pride, a successful Colorado entrepreneur, Margaret Burd. Hi, Margaret. Margaret Burd: Hi. Thanks for having me. Lucy: Oh, our pleasure. Margaret is the founder and president and CEO of Magpie. They are a software company. They provide software services and development in the space of smart energy and telecommunications, which is where I know them from the very best. Lately, they've had even more exciting things going on, if you can imagine that, than smart energy. I mean, that's pretty exciting. But, also, there's a new spin-off trial called Magpie Health Care, which is doing some very cool work in giving hospital providers the kind of phone-based tools they need to locate either specialists or others very easily. And, they don't have to wait on the line. I'm sure I'm not doing it justice, but it's a new venture for Magpie. So, Margaret, tell us a bit about Magpie, either Magpie One or Magpie Two. [laughs] Larry: Yeah. Margaret: Well, Magpie One, Magpie Telecom as we used to call it. But, we've branched so far into other industries that we just say Magpie now. Magpie, we bought it in 2001. Which was a difficult year to start a business, with 9/11 happening two months after we started, and then telecom crashing. But, we survived all that. We have about between 50 and 60 people now doing software for a whole variety of companies. In the last year and a half, we went out and explored the whole smart energy, smart grid space. And, have found that there's a very huge market there, especially now with all the stimulus money that we could tap, with very much the same skills that we have from our telecom experience. That experience is very high-end: Bell Labs, educated people. What we learned about creating reliable, scalable and all viable networks of AT&T we can apply now to the smart grid. When you pick up the phone, you want to get dial tone. When you flip on the switch, you want your lights to come on. So, it's very similar to the ways you have to think about developing these networks. Then, as Lucy said, about two and a half years ago, we got the idea to go into health care. I started wandering around hospitals personally, and we ended up getting an idea for a product there. Lucy did a really good job explaining what that does. We help caregivers find other caregivers in really efficient ways. Because that is a product-based business, we have spun that into its own little company. And, I chair the board for that company. Lucy: So, see? She's not idle. Larry: No, it doesn't sound... Margaret: [laughs] We are pretty busy here. Lucy: Yeah. Larry: Well, that's fantastic. Margaret: But, that's really fun. You want your services business to be really busy. Lucy: Absolutely. Larry: Yeah. Well, so, you've got 60 people now. I think when I interviewed Wendy Bohling you had about 12. Margaret: [laughs] That could be true. We probably had a few more than that when you interviewed her. But, yeah, we started out. There were 10 partners, and eight of those partners are still here in our office in Westminster. We also have a little office in Durango whether the partner has eight or so people at any one time. So, we've been on a growth spurt here with this smart grid energy space. And, really constant growth this year. We've hired seven or eight people in the last couple of months. Larry: Well, Margaret, you're involved with so many different things. Of course, now I see the Bell Labs connection here with you and Lucy. But, how did you first get into technology. And, what technologies today do you think are really cool? Margaret: Well, actually, I probably come to technology in a weird way. Because my first career, I was teaching math and science and coaching lots of different sports in public schools in Missouri. I had done that for about nine years. In '83, I was still making $15,000 a year. I was pretty bored with that whole teaching thing, too. So, I started looking around for what I wanted to do next. And, it just so happened that the University of Kansas let you get into their computer science master's program if you had a math degree. I applied, and they accepted, and ended up with my master's in computer science. Right out of school, I got an offer from Bell Labs and ended up in Denver. And, that's how I got into technology. Larry: Wow. Margaret: It was kind of a whim. I showed a little aptitude when I got to KU. So, it all... It was an amazing turn of events in my life, I can just say that. And, probably just because. It's one of those things that just happens. In terms of cool, my guys, if they were on the phone, they would be talking about a bunch of cool technologies that they love. But, you know, to me it's more about figuring out where to go next in verticals and what technologies we can apply. So, I think less about them being cool, actually. But, every day when I pull out my iPhone, I think that's cool. I'm still thinking the iPhone is cool. So, I'm probably not the best person to talk to about cool. But, the cool part about the iPhone is that all these people all over the world can wake up in the morning. And, in their pajamas, create an application that somebody else somewhere else in the world is going to use via that device. And, then, I could go off to the other. In torrent, we use a lot of open source software. And, we contribute to open source. I think that's another one of those places where we have involved community in the creation of really cool things. So, that I think is really cool. Lucy: Well, it is pretty fascinating. When you think back 30 years what we were doing with computer science. And, now, you think that, in fact, you can create this application and it just goes everywhere in the world. It is amazing, and I think it still deserves some awe. [laughs] Larry: Yeah. Margaret: Well, I am awed almost every day by something there, yeah. Lucy: I think that, that deserves some awe. Margaret: Yeah. Lucy: So, Margaret, I certainly knew you when we were both at Bell Labs. Then you took off and you became an entrepreneur. Why did you do that? Margaret: Well, that was pretty much because Luce had told me... Luce and I had ended up in a department of about 70 people. And, I had another 30 at Nice, France. And, we were really cooking along and having a great time building cool mobile Internet applications. This is in 2000 so that was well before those were cool. And doing some applications for AT&T. But we'd also--we'd spent a lot of time getting our department to really develop software in innovative ways and in different team ways, than had been used in the past. And we could actually show that we were improving our productivity all the time and actually had measures for productivity. We were really cooking along and everybody really liked each other, it was like this love fest in my department. I mean, we really cared about each other. And so, then Lucent told me that I should lay everybody off. And so I did, and fired myself. And we had always joked in my department, that if things got too bad, we would start our own company. And, well, things were pretty bad when you have to lay everybody off. So, ten of us out of that started Magpie. And so, I kind of just wandered into being an entrepreneur, as well. But it's been tremendously great. So things happen. Larry: Wow, that's... Margaret: You probably listen to this and think that everything just happens to me. Lucy: Oh, no. No, no. [laughter] Margaret: But it is kind of... When you get into certain situations, things happen and you can react to them and go forth and do great things, or you can not. So I really think the founders at Magpie chose a path that is pretty cool. Larry: Well, Margaret, along the way, did you have a mentor, did you have other people who served maybe as role models? In fact, who influenced and supported you in your career path? Margaret: Oh man, there's been so many. Well, one even--well, Lucy. When I look at you leaving there and starting this really great foundation and going out and raising the money you needed to do that. And to do something that is totally needed in the world, that's really inspiring to me, and it has been inspiring to me. So, I'll just say that. I learned specific things from a whole bunch of different people. I had this--which Lucy knows well--Sally Werner was my boss for some time at Lucent. And there, she really taught me about how to manage people and how to do that in a way that is just really cool. And so, I learned a ton by working for her. There was another VP there, that I learned how you celebrate success. And how you not only do that, but how you communicate with large groups of people that work for you. So it's a totally important thing, especially when you're an entrepreneur, I might add. I learned about organization development from a consultant, Susan Carabello, who's consulted with me through most of my career, actually; and learned what you have to do to create organizations that really work. And I learned about sales and marketing from another really good friend of mine, Robin Wright. And I still call her and ask her for her advice on paths that we may be taking here at Magpie, and she consults with us. And then, I think... But the most important thing to being an entrepreneur I actually learned from my mom and my grandmother. And they worked really hard and they never gave up. And I think, those are the two things, that to be a great entrepreneur, you have to get. Larry: Wonderful. Lucy: Absolutely. I think it leads to another question around the personal characteristics, you know, that you have as an entrepreneur. Because you have worked hard and you've never given up, and you also have looked at opportunities to really take them where they could go. You know, and that's a very observant thing for people to do, to be that thoughtful about what life puts right in front of you right where you can take it. So what other words would you use to describe yourself as an entrepreneur? Margaret: I'm very optimistic. And, you know, as I've talked to a lot of other entrepreneurs, I think often they are really an optimistic person. So I don't think I'm rare in that regard, at all, and I think you have to be. And that helps you see those things also. And it also can be a real detriment. You know, you have your rosy glasses on all the time and don't know how to actually look at a new idea or look at a new plan, or whatever. So I'm not saying... But you have to kind of think you can do things. You know what I mean? And that's that optimism. I think for me, especially in the services business, but probably true for lots of small businesses, it seems to be a good entrepreneur, you really have to like people. And you have to like helping people and you have to enjoy going out and meeting people. And just walking up and introducing yourself to someone. There's something about just enjoying being around new people and talking to them about what they've got going on, and I really like that. Probably most important in this business too, though, has been you have to... I think I'm good and I'm pretty creative in my problem solving abilities. I don't mind solving problems. A problem is a problem, it's just a thing to be solved today. And I think I'm creative in how I can do that. Not that other people aren't just as creative, but I think it adds a skill for being... When you are an entrepreneur, you're going to be hit with all these issues, all the time. And so, figuring out how to do them in a way that you can afford, in a way that's maybe going to work and, you know, so forth, is pretty important. And then, I think lastly, I really like to start things. That initial forming of the idea and storming through understanding what you're going to do. I really like that part of the whole process. So... Larry: Well, you know, one of the things we have to ask is that, if you were sitting down right now at a table with a person who was going to become an entrepreneur, what advice would you give them? Margaret: Well, first of all, I'd say it's really hard so you really have to want it. It's really risky and most small businesses fail, so you really have to want it. [laughter] And it's going to take a lot of work. But if you really want it, it's so worth doing. And I'd tell them to go find a mentor, someone that they can sit with. And sometimes you have to pay for that and sometimes you can get that for free. So, early on, I always got that for free. But there's also groups out there, CEO groups, that can really be helpful. And I've been a member of Renaissance Executive Forums, one of those groups, for a long time now. And, totally helpful, because you get to bounce your ideas and problems and everything else off a bunch of people that all have those same problems. So, I think you need that. And then, I think really think about how you're going to interface with your partners, if you're going to have partners in your business. And know that that relationship all changes as you go through the different stages of your company and have that legally set up so that you can make changes that make sense in easy ways, that just recognize that people change. Larry: That's a great list. Lucy: It certainly is a great list. And I have to say that Margaret was being modest when she was talking about her personal characteristics. I mean, Margaret is really a great leader of technologists. We rarely talk about that on this interview series. But because your tech companies, obviously... Our founders and CEO's are leading engineers, a lot of them, and that's a special skill set. Margaret: Well, thank you for saying that. I think--well, I love engineers, first of all. But they are an interesting sort that--you know--that you have to figure out how to lead along. So, thank you for saying that. Lucy: Yeah, it's always been an interesting thing. Larry writes books and maybe one day he can write a book about leading engineers. Larry: Oh. Margaret: That would be a great idea. Lucy: I think that would be a great book, wouldn't it? Margaret: Yeah, I think there's several million people that could use one. Lucy: So, you've given us probably one story about a tough part in your career that ended up where you fired yourself and started Magpie. What's another tough thing you've had to do in your career? Margaret: It's been all kinds of places at Magpie, where you get to spots where all your management team, in my case at the time they were partners, and were in these difficult situations where you have to really--maybe an example would be you have to spend a bunch of money. And it's really hard at the time, because you don't have the money to spend. But if you're going to move to the next step, you have to like go get that money, somewhere. And in our case, we were bootstrapping everything. I was taking the profits of their business to go off and do these new things, like the energy practice. That was--you know, people think, "Oh, you go start a new energy practice." But we spent a whole person's time, for over a year, figuring out how to approach that market and what software was required in that market, and actually having conversations with companies in that market. So, you know, it's a big investment for a small company to do things like that. And I think that the hard times had been in convincing your partners, for example, that that's a great thing to do. So, they've been mostly around that. Other hard times, I have trouble even really thinking about them, Lucy. Because they're not... I don't think about them as hard times. I think about--oh, yeah, that was a problem time. Last year, for example: 2009 was... I'm so glad we're through it. Lucy: Yeah, I know. Margaret: Everything was hard. Everything we were bidding on was--there were, you know, five companies bidding against us. And there wasn't very much to bid on and it was really hard. And we ended up having a flat year which was not very--that was great. In fact, I say that last year was the new great. But it's so much different now, this year. So, I mean, that was really a hard year, but it's just another problem in business that you kind of work through. I don't have lots of examples where I think, "Oh, that was something I really figured out how to work through and I should tell people." Lucy: Yeah. Margaret: There all kind of just--it's day to day problems. You know what I mean? Larry: Yeah. Lucy: Yeah, absolutely. Margaret: So I don't have great examples there. Larry: Well, that's--you know, starting a company in 2001, "Hi-Tech", and then, living through 2009, you're doing fantastic. Lucy: 2009 was just an angry year. Larry: Yeah, really. Lucy: I mean, it was just an angry year. It was just one of those years, that it was time to be over. Larry: Yeah. Margaret: Oh, it was just icky the whole time. Lucy: Yeah, I know. Margaret: And '02, that was really a difficult year. But, you know, when you're starting a business, I mean, you have expectations about when you're going to finally get some customers. But, beyond that, you know it's going to be hard. And so, what we learned out of that--and we always learn something out of our hard times, by the way--we learned how to do cash-flow management in great detail. And last year, I think we learned that in times like that, you have to hone your sales processes to really go after the small set of customers that are out there. And we did that. And now, in this year, we are cooking along with really great new processes and with new sales people, that really understand how to do that and with sales, there's lots of really good things that happen out of those hard times, if you make it through them. Lucy: Absolutely. Larry: Wow. You know, with all the things that you're doing, and you're expanding into new silos, and everything that you're doing in your career, how do you bring balance into your personal and your professional lives? Margaret: Balance is an interesting word. Well, I have a wonderful life partner that I love to vacation and see the world with and enjoy theater with, and exercise with, and so forth. So, I make time for those things. And I really like to go to the beach, so I go. And this may sound counter-intuitive, but I do a lot of non-profit work. So I'm on several non-profit boards and I raise a lot of money for those causes. And that is a lot of extra work, but then it also brings balance, because you're out actually giving back to people that really need your help. So that always feels really good, even though it makes me stay up way too late. Lucy: Yeah. Margaret: And then, I really like to ride my bicycle. And so, I make time, at least on the weekends, to do some longer rides. And I put my iTunes in my ears, and I've pretty much got balance then I would say. Larry: Well, just so you don't swim and bike. Lucy: Especially on your bike. Larry: Yeah, right. Lucy: You'd better have balance on your bike. Larry: Yeah, yeah. Margaret: Yeah, yeah. Oh, good point! Lucy: Yeah. If no other time, you need to balance on your bike. Margaret: That's right. Lucy: So Margaret, tell us what's next for you. You've done a lot, you've accomplished a lot, you've got some exciting new applications that you're working on and at least two companies. What's next? Margaret: Well, obviously, or maybe it's not obvious, but I really want to see where I can take those Magpie companies in the next probably two, three, four years. And I think in the health care business, we are on the edge of real greatness in terms of the application we're providing and what it's looking like in the markets. So I really want to stay around, at least as chair of that board, and see where we can take that. And then, in the services business, this energy thing is really important to the whole world, so it feels like I want to stay around and do that for a while, too. And then, after that though, I think--I've got this vision of doing a lot of work for non-profits, but also being able at that time to fund them, in ways that are greater than what I can do now. So I want to do that. And then, there's a whole bunch of South Pacific islands and beaches that I haven't... Lucy: Yeah, no. They sure beat the... Margaret: ...hung around. So I want to do that, too. Lucy: They sure beat the beach in Colorado, don't they? Larry: Yeah, yeah. Margaret: Yeah, yeah. Colorado's a great place. But without the beach, I have to... Lucy: There's no... Margaret: ...vacation other places. Lucy: There's no beach. Margaret: Yeah. Lucy: Yeah. Larry: Yeah, just don't ride your bike while you're swimming. OK? Margaret: [laughs] Well, you know, on all those islands a bike is pretty good transportation. Really. Larry: Yeah. Margaret: Yeah. But that's what I've got in mind, pretty much to follow on with some more and greater non-profit work. Lucy: Well, you know, that's very--you are very philanthropic and a very giving person and just a wonderful member of our community here in Colorado. So, we really want to thank you for talking to us. We've enjoyed chatting with you. And I want to remind listeners where they can find this podcast: you can find it at w3w3.com, Internet radio. Larry: You betcha! Lucy: And also, ncwit.org. Thank you, Margaret! Margaret: Oh, I appreciate the time and really enjoyed chatting with you guys. Larry: Alright. Lucy: Thank you. Larry: Same here, we'll see you soon! Lucy: See you soon! Margaret: See you! Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Margaret BurdInterview Summary: Margaret Burd was working at Lucent in 2000 when the tech bubble burst, and she was forced to lay off herself and her entire department. Since she and her team members were "really cookin' along" at the time, doing high-quality, innovative work, she decided she'd just start a company and hire them back. Release Date: June 1, 2010Interview Subject: Margaret BurdInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 21:12

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Pooja Nath CEO, Piazzza Date: May 17, 2010 [music] Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of the National Center for Women & Information Technology or NCWIT. We've got another great interview today with women who have started IT companies, and this is a really interesting one. This is a woman who studied computer science, worked in tech companies, is getting her MBA in Stanford, and also by the way, on the side is starting a company. It's called Piazzza and her name is Pooja Nath. We're very excited to have her here. I should mention she's getting her MBA at Stanford, so not unlike other entrepreneurs who have come before, who we know about. Piazzza is all about group learning. It is really interesting to go look at the site. Having a college student myself, I know that often he is studying by himself or he doesn't have the answers to questions, and I must also say he also procrastinates and could really use something like Piazzza, which helps you get answers to questions from your fellow students and from your professor all through a form of social networking. So, welcome, Pooja. We're very glad that you're here. Pooja Nath: Thank you. I'm very excited to be here with you. That was a very kind introduction. It makes me really happy when I hear other people explain the problem I am trying to solve, because when I hear them explain it so well in their own terms, I know I am solving a simple problem that is very prevalent. I try and explain to people what I am doing. It's like, "Well, students have problems when they're studying for assignments or exams, and they have specific questions that have a lot of context." Search engines can't help much, because there is knowledge out there that is too general. Discussion forums usually can't help, because there is so much lost and so much back-and-forth in trying to explain the context. The way I see it is your classmates or your teachers are best bet to get fast and efficient help, and yet today, so many students when they're struggling are trying to call their few friends they know, or trying to email their few friends they know. There is nothing connecting them to try and get them help when they need it with the largest set of most relevant people, that's their entire class. Lucy: I think that is absolutely right. Larry Nelson: Yeah. Lucy: You have to go to YouTube listeners, and look at the YouTube video on Piazzza. It's very cute, because it calls many of these students, who just like my son, "elite procrastinators." [laughter] Lucy: I know. It was just absolutely perfect. Maybe just before we get into our set of questions around entrepreneurship, tell us a little bit about where Piazzza is these days, and how you came up with the name, and what's going on with the company. Pooja: Sure. I was sitting in a finance class at GSB when I was brainstorming on the names, and I asked a student next to me, "What's a term that explains this idea of bringing people together in a common place?" He said, "Piazza." Lucy: [laughs] Oh, that's very good. Pooja: Plural of piazza was a great idea, except I don't like the sound of piazze. [laughs] Lucy: Yeah. Exactly. Pooja: And since then, coming up with that name 'pizza' just really stuck with me. When I go back to my undergrad days when everybody would be sitting together in the same lab, mostly because they were not in a financial position to own their own laptops or computers, the amount of help people got in there, and the ways in which they learned off of each other was just so beautiful. That was my fruition was to come up with a term that had the same meaning in my mind, which is everyone is in the same spot physically, except I'm trying to now do that online. My inspiration was I was one of the very few female students in computer science in India, not only just computer science students, but IIT, which is the top engineering school of India has very few women overall, so there are about 420 boys. In my class there were about 20 girls, and in computer science there were three girls. So, I would be all alone on the sidelines, too shy to ask any guy for help, and I just wished I had something that would connect me through all my classmates in a way that even myself being the shy student or girl that I was back then, I would still have a way to tap-in to their collective knowledge. Lucy: Well, I think that is wonderful, and the product looks great. Are you launched yet, or are you still in a private sort of beta, or what is the state of the software? Pooja: We're private beta right now, but this fall, we're planning to launch openly to Stanford Campus. Because of our team being quite small at the moment, we're taking a very controlled birth approach. The biggest reason for that is I want to make sure I have a very personal connection with all of my users. I'm afraid that if we were to launch too aggressively or too openly, I would lose that somehow down the line. Last summer was when I built the first prototype myself, and then launched to a single class at University of Maryland, College Park, where I did my Master's Degree. I was a professor in computer science. When that started to go quite positively, we launched to more classes at Stanford, and University of Maryland, and Santa Clara, this January, and that went even better. So, the spring quarter, we had a number of classes at Stanford, both undergrad and grad level; MBA, Computer Science, Engineering. The usage on this site continues to grow rapidly, and a lot of that is through feedback, and talking with students and faculty at Stanford, understanding their needs and then watching how you actually use the platform we've given to them, and iterating quite rapidly. Lucy: It's exciting. Larry: Yeah. It really is exciting. Wow! I wish I had known about Piazzza a number of years ago, but anyhow... Pooja: [laughs] Larry: You have a background in computer science. So, let me kind of ask a two-part question here. How did you first get involved into technology, and kind of bridge that from the past to what do you think in the future is cool technology today? Pooja: How did I get into technology? Well, my dad is a physicist, and so he generally from a very young age, always would be having us observe things from a very scientific perspective, and have us appreciate technology out there in the world, how it is affecting us in our daily life. My brother is an electrical engineer. So, I guess being surrounded by them, I had this excitement around technology, and studying engineering myself. I come from a pretty small town in India, where no girl had gotten into IIT before me. Somehow just being surrounded by my family in the way that I was, was very motivational for me to start thinking about engineering and particularly, computer science. Coming to your next question, what technologies, and how do I see that today. I love that technology lets us do things in more simple and simple ways. Just to give an example, I remember last summer when I had an idea, and I wanted to act on it. I had a very hardcore of engineering background, in the sense I only used to code CC++ server technology, and stuff like that, and Oracle, and Cosmix, Facebook. It is all back, and stuff. In the summer I said, "OK. I want to build a web app, what can I do?" And I learned more about various technologies out there to build web apps. I realized instantly that Ruby and PHP, and all these other platforms that are out there, they enable us to build a web app in 10 days. I got my first prototype in mid-July, when I only started learning it in June. I'm very impressed at how everything is moving towards making our own life easier, so that we can innovate faster. Lucy: And do your homework faster! Pooja: [laughs] Lucy: That is absolutely the case. So, you are getting your MBA at Stanford. You mentioned you got your Master's at Maryland, and you're also starting a company and really growing organically, and so on and so forth. What made you make that leap from that big company kind of environment into being an entrepreneur?  Pooja: So, I never really consciously realized I was making a leap into being an entrepreneur. [laughter] Lucy: That's probably why you're a great entrepreneur. Pooja: I still way say, though, that I had joined a pretty small startup after Oracle, which was a search engine, building a search engine at the time called Cosmix, and then Facebook, which was very startupish. I still think it is. But again, coming to my motivation to build Piazzza, I never thought, "Oh, I'm about to be a CEO" or "I'm about to be a founder." I realized there is a very prevalent problem, and after having been through a couple discussions around genders and workplaces, and women support groups, I realized that many students, even in the US, are in the shoes that I am, which is they don't feel like they have the support group they needed. All I thought of last January, the second quarter of Stanford Business School, is there has to be something that connects these students in a better and more effective way to all of their classmates and teachers. Step-by-step, and I don't know, I like to think of it as a baby step at a time, I started working toward a solution that I wished I had in my own undergrad that could have increased my learning in computer science for the four years that I was there at a wonderful engineering institute in India. Larry: Well, with everything that you've been through and are continuing to do, were there people along the way that maybe had a major influence on you and, let's say, maybe even was a mentor for you? Pooja: I think in different phases of my life I've had different people influence me in different ways and different mentors. Definitely my parents, my brother and his family have been very supportive in whatever decisions I've made. Choosing to do CS as a woman, for example. Or, jumping from the security of a large company to a startup. And, even deciding to say, guys, I'm doing my own start-up over the summer. I'm not going to have a paid internship between my first and second year. I'm going to work on this whatever hours of the day that I think I'm most effective at. [laughter] Pooja: But, their support. And, a lot of my classmates at the GSB, they understood entrepreneurship. They understood what it meant to try something. I got of support from them in very implicit ways. Then, coming to, I would say, models of leadership, there have been a few people I've really been inspired by. I was fortunate to work very closely and observe how Mark Zuckerberg runs and leads Facebook. He was an immense source of inspiration for me, watching his innate styles and how the company would function in its own powerful and effective way. Today, I've got a few mentors who have helped me these past two years as Piazzza has evolved. Mostly some of the top leaders at Palantir. They've been there. I've had questions. I don't know what to do. Some of them have been through leading a company, growing a company, and they're there to answer my questions. They pose questions in the right way that have me think in the right way. It's not they want to tell me or they have to handhold me. But, they have me thinking in the right way, which has been very helpful for me. Lucy: That's great to have that kind of advice from people around you. It really does make a big difference in terms of doing things right. And, often, as entrepreneurs tough things happen, too. You see along the way something's been particularly difficult. So far on your journey, what has been the toughest thing you've had to do so far? Pooja: When I look back at everything that's got me to where I am today, I would say the toughest thing was being confident in who I was while I was preparing as a female for the IIT entrance exam. 200,000 people get that exam each year in India. I think the number's even increased. And, 2,000 people get selected. And, of that, I'm sitting knowing that maybe 50 to 100 women get selected. But, that mindset that I had which is I'm not going to look around me and how other women see this. I'm going to say there are 2,000 people who are selected, and I have to be one of them. Getting into IIT, the four years struggling and often feeling alone trying to understand assignments and projects, were very, very tough. But, they shaped me to a point where today when I'm on this journey where many people say being an entrepreneur is lonely and scary, I honestly don't think it is that bad. Being in Silicon Valley, I think I have a lot of support. Lucy: That's an interesting observation. I'd like to add something from NCWIT's perspective about this. We hear this a lot from our high school girls who are interested in computer science. They're the only girl in the class. They're the only girl in the school. This feeling of being alone. We've started something around a K-12 award for high school girls. We're going to put a social networking site together for them just to keep them connected. They're from all over the country. Just to give them that sense that they are not alone. I think your point is brilliant which is once you've learned that you can survive alone, that's a good skill. [laughter] Lucy: I think that's great. Larry: That's a fact. Well, that's kind of a lead-in to this next question. Right now, if you were sitting down right across the table with another person, a young person, who is maybe going to have an entrepreneurial leaning, what advice would you give to them? Pooja: I think the biggest advice, I think I remember Derrick Bolton, the Director of Admissions at the MBA program at Stanford, said this once that really inspired me, is believe in yourself because we believe in you and that is beautiful. Today I am able to do my own startup because I believe in myself and I'm content that I can achieve, and I would tell them the same thing. I'd tell them believe in yourself and if there is something that you are truly passionate about, go out there and start it. Don't plan for the day when you will, just jump in and it's going to be hard, it's going to be scary and it will be fun and amazing and fulfilling in a way if I just think, I don't know personally, I feel nothing else could have given this sense of fulfillment. Lucy: Well and we have talked to you just for a short period of time here but I think our listeners were all ready now that there are certain words that describe you, as entrepreneur. One is passionate, a lovely description about why people would want to be entrepreneurial and, also, confident and certainly persistent in trying to achieve your goals. What other personal characteristics that you have that would make you a successful entrepreneur? Pooja: In my view, I would say I am optimistic. I don't know if everyone views that as a characteristic that's good for an entrepreneur. But I'm very optimistic and I don't easily get discouraged. I think I have already mentioned this but from my town, when no girl had gotten in, I don't use that dampen my spirits to apply or even the quality with which I put an effort to apply to get the IIT exams. Here in Silicon Valley, the same thing. I know there aren't that many female entrepreneurs. I wish there were. But that doesn't discourage me. I know that I will get a lot of support and when people see a brilliant product, they will support in many ways that I will need to move forward. Larry: Well, you are doing all kinds of things, building a company, gaining an MBA. Lucy: Going to Stanford. Oh my goodness, frightening right there. Larry: Yeah, how do you bring balance into your personal and your professional lives? Pooja: I don't know that I see when doing on my business and school and with my friends as clear lines between any of them, and I think a reason could be that I love all of them. There are times that I realize that I need or I want to spend more time just on my personal friend and it could be a trip somewhere with my friends. I will do that. And sometimes I realize that it is very crucial for Piazzza that a release is coming up and that I will forget about all social activities out of which people must be thinking, "Wow. Really?" But I do give up a lot of social activities and just immerse myself into building the right products for the students and professors I like. I know I hear other people have to find a balance on a daily level that's not something I do and perhaps it's because I love everything that I do so much that I try to figure out what's the right balance I should balance over a certain time period and make sure that I am balancing them all to a level so I'm not giving too much time to any one part of my life. Lucy: Well, so you are doing a lot and I know we ask our entrepreneurs their next steps. So we already know the next step for you is to get that MBA. We know you are going to launch Piazzza, hopefully this fall, or whenever it's time. What other things are coming down the road for you that you can share with our listeners? Pooja: I still see myself as a long way to go and achieving my mission that I have for Piazzza. I want to see this in every class, worldwide, and at the first step before that, nationwide. I really think students and professors will get so much value out of this platform that I am just on step zero. It's gone to some classes as a private beta at Standford. It's going to go to more classes at Stanford but, really, I hope to achieve seeing this help every single student so that no student four years out of graduation will have to say something like, "I wished I had something like that." Lucy: Well, I think it's a great vision. Larry: Yes, I do too. Lucy: And we wish you the very best of luck with that and thank you very much for talking to us. Pooja: Thank you. Lucy: And I would like to remind listeners, if they can find this podcast on w3w3.com and also NCWIT.org. Larry: You betcha. And we'll have a link to Piazzza, too. Lucy: Oh, Good. Larry: Why not. Lucy: Why not, let's do it. [laughter] Pooja: Perfect. Lucy: Alright. Thank you so much. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Pooja Nath SankarInterview Summary: Having been one herself, Pooja Nath understands the problems of students studying for assignments or exams. They have specific questions with a lot of context that search engines can't address because the returns are too many and too general. So Pooja built a prototype for Piazzza, an online forum in which students can share knowledge. Release Date: May 17, 2010Interview Subject: Pooja NathInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 17:14

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Gail Goodman President, Chair, and CEO, Constant Contact Date: March 16, 2010 Entrepreneurial Heroes Interview with Gail Goodman [intro music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders and I'm the CEO of National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. This is our next podcast interview in a series of interviews with women who have started IT companies and/or who are CEOs of start-up companies and the technology spaces. And today, we have Lee Kennedy with us, who is a serial entrepreneur and right now with Bolder Search and also with NCWIT Board of Directors. And Larry Nelson from W3W3 who has just informed us that tomorrow is his eleventh year of his Internet... Larry Nelson: ... Talk radio show. Lucy: Yeah, absolutely. Lee Kennedy: Congratulations, Larry. Larry: Thanks. Lucy: Well, in this interview is very exciting for all of us who send mail out and who know about Constant Contact. We are interviewing Gail Goodman, who is the President, Chairman, and CEO of Constant Contact. And she has done so much, both personally and through her company to really revolutionize the way that businesses reach out and send mail to their stake holders. And really since she's doing Constant Contact, the number of customers has just skyrocketing. NCWIT is a customer. We use it for our newsletters and our campaigns and everything else. So, welcome, Gail, it's good to have you with us. Gail Goodman: Great to be here and thank you for your business. Lucy: Well, you're welcome. Well, we are really eager to hear first, before we start into our entrepreneurial questions a little bit about what's going on with Constant Contact lately? Catch our listeners up a little bit. Gail: Right, for those of you who don't know Constant Contact: Constant Contact is 100 percent focused on helping small businesses, non-profits associations who look great. That's staying connected to customers, clients, members. So, we started with email marketing and that's absolutely our kind of flagship product. But, over the last couple of years, in addition to growing how many customers use Constant Contact, we also added two new products. Event marketing, so to help people run complete closed moved event registration, take money for the event and that whole community advice for business. Lucy: Of course. Gail: And an online survey tool to help people hear back from their customers or members with feedback and learn more about who those folks are, true demographic questions. Today, we have over 325,000 customers around the world who count on our service to stay connected to their most important audiences. And we are just immensely grateful to that group for their business. Lucy: Well, I didn't really know you had an event marketing tool. So, we have events. Gail: That's fabulous. Lucy: I'm going to have to go take a look at it. Gail, you're the CEO of a Tech company, an obviously you're immersed in Tech every day as you think about what Constant Contact is going to be doing in the future. What is it about technology that really interests you and how did you get into a technology company? Gail: Well, I have to say that I had the technology bug pretty darned early. I started using a computer when I was in high school, which to many of the listeners may seem obvious, but when I was in high school, they didn't have personal computers. You had to actually go find a big computer and something that looked like a refrigerator box and actually program on paper tapes and now I'm starting to sound like a dinosaur. Lucy: No, Gail, you're sounding just like Lucy and Larry. [laughter] Gail: But, I just love technology pretty early on and what excited me as I went through my career was not the technology itself, but the problems that it could solve for real people and real businesses. And so, as my career matured, it was all about solving customer problems and that really is what still excites me and makes me get all into the new and emerging technologies. How can this solve a problem that couldn't be solved with a mainframe, with a laptop and now that we have the Internet and mobile devices and it all creates new opportunities to solve problems. Lucy: Well, as you look at technology today, do you have specific technologies that you think are really leading the charge in terms of being innovative. What technologies interest you the most? Gail: As a business person thinking about what we do for our customers. The technology that interests me the most are the social networks and mobile. As a consumer, I'm really interested in the convergence of the smart phone with identity geo targeting and all that that brings together. I think it's consumers, we're just getting so empowered with the iPhone in our hands to do things so dramatically differently. It's like trying to go back and forth with trying to be a consumer and then thinking about what does that means for our business customers, how can they take advantage of that. Lucy: That's definitely the way that you have to think even in your business because your business is all about how consumers use your product. So, if we switch back to you, you started off as a techie and you loved solving problems. What moved you into being an entrepreneur and what is it about entrepreneurship that you love? Gail: The thing that moved me into entrepreneurship was really this combination of wanting to solve customer problems and really feeling like I was ready to earn my own destiny. I had spent a career working for others, sort of frustrated at the pace of what I could do with a pace of change, with the pace of innovation and it just got to the point where it was time to put my money where my mouth was and see if I could do it better than all the people I was thinking I could do it better than. Lucy: Obviously being in a start up that pace is fast enough for you right? Gail: Yeah, and the very interesting challenge for me now is, I joined Constant Contact in '99, there were six people. But, the place was definitely fast enough. Today, we are 625. Lucy: Wow. Gail: And I could hardly call us a start up anymore and how do we just keep that pace of innovation going? How do we keep internal entrepreneurship going? How do we make it easy for people to get things done and make decisions? And I am increasingly challenged to keep solving the same problems I came here to solve. Lucy: That's in interesting topic. You know, we have another interview series called "The Toolbox Series" where I think this idea of, how do you take a startup that has grown to some significant size and keep that innovation, start moving? That would be a very interesting topic. Larry: Yeah, it certainly would. Lee: And that's amazing that you've been there. It'll be 11 years, this year? Gail: Eleven years in April. Lee: Wow. Gail: Me and Larry, we're both doing our 11 year anniversary. [laughter] Larry: Yeah, I'll tell you. I was thinking that, wow. Lucy: Wow. Larry: You know, along the way I'm sure that you had either mentors or role models, or people who helped you out along the way. Well, who would that be that you would pick out that has influenced and supported you in your career path? Gail: I'm going to go with two answers here. Larry: OK. Gail: And one seems just a tiny bit trite. But, my parents really were huge influences here and I think the thing they did for me that is pretty unique, for their generation for women, is they really gave me a huge belief in myself and the confidence that I could do or try anything. And that was really a huge piece of what gave me the confidence to step out from under, you know, the corporate safety net and go alone. Lee: That's wonderful. Larry: Yeah, great. Gail: And then, along the way, you know, my best role models have been my CEO peer mentoring group. So, when I was about two years into this adventure, I joined a group of other venture-backed tech CEOs, who sat down together for a day-and-a-half a quarter and really talked about what we were doing to grow our businesses. You know, the role of the CEO, how to manage the board, how to raise more money. And we helped each other grow into our CEO roles. And so, I would say all of them were role models and I learned something from each and every one of them, because we each brought unique backgrounds and experience sets to the table and created an environment where we could be completely open about the issues and challenges we were facing in our business. Lee: And you sat down each quarter for a day-and-a-half solid? Gail: -huh. Lee: Wow. Lucy: Wow, well, that's pretty intense networking. Lee: Yeah. Lucy: That's awesome. Well, you know, and your statement about your parents, we see that time and time again at NCWIT, that, in fact, encouragement of parents, especially to women, young women, who are interested in technology. As you said, you were interested in computing in high school, at a time when there really wasn't... It was hard to be interested in computing in high school. And that encouragement from your parents, I think, is quite a factor. So, switching gears just a bit, from the encouragement of parents, to something maybe not quite so pleasant. We always like to ask the people we interview the hardest thing they've ever had to do in their career. So, why don't you tell us the most difficult thing? You mentioned working for others and then you started Constant Contact as an entrepreneur; what's the toughest thing you've had to do? Gail: Well, I think the toughest thing I had to do was, you know, really face the fact that Constant Contact might not make it. So, we were venture-backed, the good news is we got some money before the Internet bubble burst. But then, we needed some money after the bubble burst, and money was pretty darn hard to come by. And so, as the cash balance was dwindling and I was counting down how many payrolls I could make, while I was frantically running around the world hat in hand, I needed to write a shutdown plan. And we got within 10 days of pulling the trigger on that. Lucy: Oh! Lee: Wow! And you got funding? Gail: You know, get the executive team in a room, tell them the plan. Tell them we're... You know, at that point, it looked more likely than not, that we were going to shut this thing down. And I think it was... You know, the full employee base never knew how close we got. But, looking around the table at the team who had been working hard every day and saying, "Guys, I think it's over," was the hardest thing I had to do. Larry: How many employees did you have at that time? Gail: More than we should have. [laughter] Lee: Oh, no! Lucy: Wow. Lee: Well, that's a great story. Right? And that it turned out happily ever after this. Larry: Yeah. Lee: So, Gail, we have a lot of young people listening to our podcasts and we would love for you to... If you were sitting here with them, what advice would you give them about entrepreneurship? Gail: Well, the thing I would say, is get a good solid foundation before you strike out on your own. So, get some experience first working for a company, and be very observant about what works and what doesn't work. Leadership style, management style. You know, it is very difficult to be figuring these things out for the first time in an environment where you are, you know, absolutely supposed to be running the place. And as you think about those first sets of jobs, be very thoughtful about the set of experiences you want to get. And I would say, get as close to the customer and the value delivery point as you can. So, if you're in a professional services company, you know, get into the client engagements. If you're in a software product company, get into product management. So, you see how the sausage factory produces a product. And not everything you're going to learn there, you're going to want to take with you, but get some stripes somewhere else. Not only will it give you an experience and guide to your own leadership and management style, I think it'll make you much more fundable, if you're going into a business where you're going to need some other people to vote for you and give you their money. Larry: You listeners out there pay attention to that reply, because I wish I had heard that, before I started my first company. But... Lee: That is. That's sage advice. Larry: So, Gale, you talked about your parents, the CEO mentoring group, and so on. Getting right into you, what are some personal characteristics of yours that have made you a successful entrepreneur? Gail: So, I'll highlight four that I think are pretty important. And I'll start with tenacity. I just refuse to fail. [laughter] Gail: Every obstacle was a challenge to be taken on. The second kind of directly relates to that which is I am an analytic animal. So, when I see challenges I don't react to them emotionally, I react to them analytically. Let's diagnose it. Let's do the root cause analysis. And let's fix it. The third thing is that I am a continuous learner. I understand that I don't know what I don't know, and I'm not afraid to get help from others. Talk, you know, peers... One of my first reactions to a problem we would have in the business is who might have solved this problem already? And how do I get access to them to figure out how they solved it? So, I'm always reading books. I am always talking to others. I am always trying to pick people's brains. And the final piece and probably the hardest piece, for me, because it wasn't natural, is I think it's important as an entrepreneur that you be immensely open to the feedback of others and recognize the weaknesses in yourself so you can complement them with the team. And so I ask for, and on a good day listen to a lot of feedback. Lucy: Well, and I think that, I'd add a fifth characteristic that you didn't mention. You have a great sense of humor. A great laugh, I have to think that that helps get through the day as well. Gail: If you start taking yourself too seriously you're in deep trouble. Larry: Yep. Lucy: Yeah. We think so too. We don't take Larry seriously. [laughter] Larry: We'll talk offline, Gail. Lucy: So speaking of your day. You have a lot of work in your day obviously running a successful company like Constant Contact. And yet you have a personal life too. We like to ask how people bring balance into their life knowing full well that perhaps most people are totally unbalanced when they're in the situation that you're in. But, we find that they amazingly have coping strategies so they do have a personal life as well. So, why don't you tell us about how you bring balance there? Gail: Yeah. Just a couple of things. I have so many interests outside of work that I have been unwilling to give up because of that tenacity. So, that's really helped. So, I happen to be a tennis addict as a player and watcher. The good thing about tennis is you've got to schedule it. So, you've got a bunch of other people waiting for you on a court, you don't blow it off. So, it happened to be a very good hobby because other people were waiting for me. To all the tennis players out, all I need to say is doubles with three people is really not as much fun. And I never said, wow, I'm not going to have that much time for that this quarter. I'm not going to sign up for the contract with the ladies. I just did it. And so that formed some anchors of things that got me out of the office and got me moving and fun. The second thing is I have always prioritized the people who mean the most to me. My family, my friends, you cannot let those relationships go. They are the most valuable thing in your life. Someone once told me that story, just think about the world from, sitting on your porch in your 80s, looking back on your life. Very few people are going to say I wish I had spent more time working. The number one thing you hear is that I wish I had spent more time with my family. And you never get a chance to go back and do that. So, I've always been very clear that while on a given day a work priority might overwhelm a family thing. As I look at weeks and months, I can't let that happen more than occasionally. Lucy: So, it's an integration process as opposed to this perfect idea of balance. Larry: Yes. Lucy: Yes. Gail: Yeah. You never get the perfect idea of balance. But you've got to keep the priorities in place. Lucy: Absolutely. Well, Gail, we have loved talking to you, and it's been so interesting. We have one last question. You've achieved so much. Give us a little insight into what's next? What's next with you? What's next with Constant Contact? Gail: So, we at Constant Contact feel like we are just getting started. We are thrilled to serve 325,000 customers. There are 27 million small businesses in the US. And when you add non profits and trade associations, the number gets up to 40 million. And we think those small organizations succeed based on customer intimacy and relationships. And our vision is nothing less than to help them revolutionize that success formula. And so we are on the march to a million, and just unbelievably excited about it because small business is the backbone of the American economy. It employs half of the private workforce and has typically been the very first to hire coming out of recession. So, literally our mission for this year is to re-energize America's small business and pull the United States out of the recession. Lucy: We're behind you. Lee: Hallelujah. Lucy: We're behind you. Larry: Wow. Gail, I just wanted to thank you for joining us today. Gail Goodman of Constant Contact. And this is Lucy, Lee, and Larry. You know the three Ls. It's really our pleasure. Your interview will be up on ncwit.org. It will also be on w3w3.com. And we'll have it on a podcast, a blog, and that social networking stuff you were talking about. So, thanks for joining us today. Gail: That's great. See you all on Twitter. Lucy: All right. Thank you Gail. Gail: Bye-bye. Lucy: Bye. Lee: Bye Gail. [exit music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Gail GoodmanInterview Summary: Gail Goodman joined Constant Contact in 1999, when the company had six employees. Today it has 625 employees, with more than 300,000 customers worldwide. Release Date: April 16, 2010Interview Subject: Gail GoodmanInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 20:02

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Beth Marcus Former Founder and CTO, Zeemote Date: January 22, 2010 Entrepreneurial Heroes Interview with Beth Marcus [music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders, I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women in Information Technology or NC WIT, and this is another in our podcast series with women who have started IT companies, very successful women I might add... Larry Nelson: Boy, I'll say. Lucy: ...that have started IT companies. With me Larry Nelson from W3W3.com. Hi Larry. Larry: Hi, I'm really happy to be here. This is going to be an exciting interview. Lucy: Well, and these interviews have been very well received at W3W3. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that. Larry: Well we host a special channel, "Heroes for NC WIT, " and we get a tremendous amount of traffic from, everything from small business owners to C level, high level executives from enterprise size companies and it's very interesting and the thing that we like about it so much it's really helping support a push for more young girls to get into IT. Lucy: Well, very good. Well, you know this interview is going to be no exception to our great interview series. Today we're talking with Beth Marcus, who is the CEO, the founding CEO of Playsmart, a new venture for her, she's a serial entrepreneur. She's founded a number of companies including Exos which she sold to Microsoft on the middle of nineteen nineties. And she is, I think easily one of the most technical people we've spoken to in this interview series with a history at MIT, and a PhD and patents and very, very impressive technical entrepreneur. Welcome Beth. Beth Marcus: Thank you. Lovely to be here chatting with you. Lucy: Well we are really interested first to find out a little bit about Playsmart, your new venture. And we understand it is really geared towards having safe environments for children on the Internet. Can you tell us more about it? Beth: Sure. It's a complete media solution for kids, ages one to eight. It allows them to be entertained, educated, connected to other family members around the world and allows the parents to control what's happening with the kids' interaction with those environments and make it totally safe. No commercials are passed to the kids. Once they get into the Playsmart system which can run on any PC or netbook they can't get out of it accidentally or otherwise and they can't get to any content or interaction that their parents don't pre-approve. Lucy: That's pretty interesting. Larry: Boy I'll say. I've got seven grandchildren, I'm happy to hear that. Beth: In fact, one of the features that some of our investors are interested in is Skyping to grandchildren that you can do through Playsmart. All you do is click on a picture of your grandparent and it makes the call for you. Lucy: Oh, that is really cool, you know. My mother's on Skype too and you know she, I mean I actually think the other end could use some help with that, you know? Larry: Yes, I agree. Beth: Yeah. Lucy: I mean she loves Skype. Beth: My daughter is how I got involved in this. I do a lot of advising of other start up CEO's and I thought I was going to be taking a break from being a CEO and just help a bunch of other people, and an entrepreneur came to me and said, you know, "Let me show you what I've got, " and it was for kids and I have a five year old. So I said, "Susie, let's play with this thing, " and she said, "Oh, this is so cool." You know and her interaction with it is what convinced me to get involved with the company and become a CEO. Lucy: You know, we've had a couple of people we've interviewed whose children have helped them form the idea for their next venture or at least encouraged them to get involved. That's really interesting. So Beth give our listeners a sense of how you first got into technology. I mean you have a very extensive technical background as I mentioned before. What first interested you in technology? Beth: A million years ago when I was in school I liked science and math and I played around with computers. And I'm probably going to give away my age, but wrote programs in Basic that ran on paper tape into a terminal. Lucy: I did that too. So don't feel bad. Beth: And then, I ended up going to MIT because they had a lot of interesting science and math. And what got me into more core technology was freshman year at MIT they have a seminar series that you do, typically in January and I took aluminum bicycle frame building because I loved bikes and I thought that would be cool. I had never seen a machine shop, I didn't know what welding was. I had never done any of the stuff and through that seminar I got fascinated by making stuff and ended up being in mechanical engineering. Lucy: Well and we noticed you were judge for First Robotics which I think further extend... Beth: Ten years, which is a lot of fun. Lucy: Yeah, you're love of making things. Larry and I both judge as well with First, so it's a great program. So what technologies do you look out there today across the technical space? What technologies do you find really cool and interesting today? Beth: Of course the last company I was in was the mobile space so I think the evolution of mobile devices into computers that you carry around with you is very interesting. I mean, when I started Zeemote in 2005, when I said, "These are the computers you're going to carry with you 24/7" the potential investors looked at me like I was from Mars. Larry: Yeah. Beth: And now people do. Lucy: They certainly do and in fact the number of people are looking at mobile devices as a real tool to help third world developing countries as well. Larry: Awesome. Beth: Well, they don't have land lines. Lucy: Exactly. Beth: And even though we have them, a lot of people don't use them anymore. Larry: Yeah, let me kind of switch gears here for a second. Two part related questions. One is, why are you an entrepreneur? And what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick? Beth: Well, I think it's a challenge. The first company I started, I remember we had built some high end controllers, exoskeleton controllers for robots in space for NASA and other people. And I got this idea that we ought to be able to take this technology and make it into a consumer product. And I was giving a talk at a Virtual Reality Conference and somebody from a not to be named defunct computer company said, "Well if you can't spend two hundred and fifty thousand dollars on a reality engine you shouldn't be doing VR." And I said, "We're going to do it on PC's and we're going to make a hundred dollar joystick and everyone's going to use them but they're not going to know that it's VR." And that sort of a challenge where somebody says, "Oh you can't do that." [laughter] Or even sometimes why would somebody want that. And then you put it in front of them and they go, "Oh wow. That makes my life easier"or "That makes my health better." You know. That exciting to me. Lucy: It's a very incredibly important point I think, you know, maybe I'll just digress a moment and say that you know there's always this tug of war in any corporation big or small between the business side and the technical side and often I think the business side can't necessarily see the power of technology until a technologist puts it in front of him. And... Beth: That's why I advise all the companies that I get involved with to get those prototypes built as quickly as possible with as little money as possible and get it into the hands of the end users. Because there's where you're going to find out are you smoking something and convincing yourself there's a market or does somebody really care about this. Lucy: Absolutely. Beth: And you learn so much that most entrepreneurs will tell you that the thing that they thought they were starting their company on is not the one they made money on. And it's the ones who iterate and spend time with the consumer whether they're a consumer or a corporate customer or whatever kind of customer, the ones that spend the time and listen to the customer are the ones that figure it out and succeed. Lucy: That is a really important point and I think, looking forward, we may have to ask you again a month from now but you know we do a Toolbox series as well and I think that it would be great to hear your advice for entrepreneurs because that advice around prototyping is excellent. Beth: I was going to be writing a book this year. Lucy: [laughs] Now you are running a company. Beth: Company...My God. I spent some time on it this summer capturing things like that and interviewing other entrepreneurs and then I said, "OK, I got to put this aside until I do this center and I'll come back again." Lucy: I think it will be fabulous because of your technical background. I'm sure you'd have some really valuable insights there. Beth: And I am a published poet. So... Right in the way that is intelligible to the rest of the world. Larry: So now there is a third interview. Lucy: A third... [laughs] Larry: A poetry. Lucy: Yeah. You are really digging yourself into a hole. So, along the lines of entrepreneurship, we found that many entrepreneurs can point to a particular person or a group of people who influence them or help them along their way as an entrepreneur. Who are your role models and how do they influence you? Beth: I think the first person who got me the sort of excitement at making stuff work was this professor in MIT Woody Flowers who was involved in the First Robotics Company. Lucy: Absolutely, I have seen him. I have never met him. Beth: But he was an early mentor of mine and I became a judge for this mechanical engineering design contest while I was still a student. And then that's sort of got me excited about the excitement of innovating and trying new things and testing your ideas. And then when I went to start my first company, I joined the MIT enterprise forum and there were a number of people there who I had no idea even what a business plan was. And I was going to write one to raise money. So I listened to other people talk about their businesses and I got some of those people to help me write my first business plan. And then later on, a man named Don Spero started a company called Fusion Systems down in the DC area that successfully flowed against the Japanese and the patent area. Kind of taught me about intellectual property and the value of it and also mentored me generally because of his long experience in running companies. And then when I was running Exos and I realized that I was out of my debts from a management point of view. I hired a guy named [indecipherable 10:03] to come in and run my company. And he became a mentor of mine and he is still to this day a friend. So all along the way, I think the lesson for an entrepreneur is to talk to anybody you can everywhere about what you are doing and try and connect with them because you never know when you are going to stand next to the person who is going to get you a deal like I did when I was in a party in MIT. And I stand next to Bob Metcalf who introduced me to the Logitech guys that told me what product to build for an Exos to get an exit. Or whether I am going to hire somebody who turns out to be my mentor and teach me about business that leaves the exit in the company. Larry: Wow. Beth, let me ask this question. First of all, you just mentioned about you are going to write a book this year but now you are running a company instead. It took me three years to write a book that I just had published called Mastering Change. So I just want to let you know that you can do that too. Beth: Yeah but I have a five year old and a puppy. Larry: Yeah, I got you. [laughs] Beth: So I said my daughter is most important, my business is second most important and the rest will just have to wait. Larry: There you go. I agree with that. Lucy: Although I could throw little barb in here and say Larry is a five year old but... [Larry clears his throat] Go ahead Larry I was... Beth: Anything about relationship in any of that. So? Lucy: [laughs] Larry: I have been married for 40 years. What are you going to do? Beth: Adolescence. I am not married so... If any of your listeners want to apply for the job, I take resumes. Larry: We make a little commission on this... Lucy: Yeah... [mumbles] Larry: Yeah. Speaking of all that stuff, what is the toughest thing that you ever had to do in your career? Beth: I think the first time I had to fire people was probably the worst moment because at Exos we started out as a medical company and we grew to a million and a half in revenues selling orthopedic rehab devices using our technology. And we realized we probably sold all the units that whatever be sold because we were teaching people how to turn on the computer not have a measure motions and force in patients. They didn't care about that. They use a plastic protractor and so we figured that out and we had to restart the company, went from 32 people down to about eight in one day. Lucy: That's tough. Beth: And I believe that I had helped outplace...anybody who wanted to be outplaced in great jobs elsewhere, and I am friends with some of the people who left the company at that point for years. And some of my hired again into other companies. I feel good about it. I remember at the end I closed my door and I just cried because these were my friends. Lucy: We hear that a lot from entrepreneurs. I think that is a very tough thing to...not just let people go but it is theirs loss and also downsizing the company and restarting it. That is all tough stuff. Beth: Yeah. Perhaps to tell you that I learned in that experience that if I had done it sooner, everybody would have been happier. Both the people who did not fit the business we are getting into and the investors and everybody would have done better. So, my advice to entrepreneurs is don't be afraid to hire but don't be afraid to fire the person who is the wrong person for the job. You are not doing them or you any favors by keeping them around if they are not working. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: It is the truth. We have learned that lesson unfortunately in the Telecom downsizing. Well that's great advice and it gets us to our next question about advice for young people about entrepreneurship and you have given us some perils already. And I wander around online and I found some presentation you made about naming your company. What I found was pretty interesting. Beth: That is a new one. [laughs] I give that to an MIT class because I am still on the faculty there. So occasionally faculty members will call me up and ask me to come, give lecture to their class and the senior mechanical engineering design class didn't have a clue how to name their product. So I came and I gave a lecture. Lucy: That's good. I can't wait for your book. And so, what kind of advice would you give to budding entrepreneurs that you haven't already told us? Beth: I think the most important thing that I talk to any entrepreneur that I coached from day one is why are you doing this? What are your personal goals? What are your financial goals? How does that fit with your family? And if you evaluate that first and write it down and keep it in front of you and then say, is what I am doing today serving my goals, the company's goals and my family's goals? And when those things start to not match, that is when you get into trouble. And if you don't bother to figure it out first, then you don't have a road map because I made this mistake. I ran a company called Glow Dog which was a failure. It was a failure because we were just about break even and about a million plus in revenue and our Christmas shipments were on the water on 911. We had just grown to the size where we need to manufacture in China instead of the United States in order to compete and they were in the container on the ocean and they could not get in the United States so there was no Christmas. And we had to sell the assets and fold the company because I didn't feel like there was going to be a return on investment if I brought in more capital. But what I didn't think about when I started that company was what was the right size for this business and did that kind of a business match what I personally wanted to do? It was just interesting. People loved the product. They were reflective coating for people and pets. And you walking your dog at night, you don't get run over, right? Well, it turned out our customers were fashion stores in Tokyo who liked the logo I designed. I didn't even know it was reflective and it was a 33% margin business in an industry that is not very protectable and that I had no expertise in. What was I doing, doing this business? So, I raised a bunch of money to make a big play, before I realized that this really was a brand company, not a technology company. I raised the right amount of money for a technology company to get launched, but it turned out technology didn't matter, and to make a brand like Tommy Hilfiger or Ralph Lauren, you need tens of millions of dollars. Lucy: Absolutely. Beth: ... and you need expertise, which I didn't have. So, if I had understood my own personal goals and what kind of a work environment I wanted, and what the end game looked like at the beginning, I probably wouldn't have made those mistakes. Because Glow Dog could have been a very profitable, between $2 and $10 million dollar clothing company and pet product company, if that was its goal. It wouldn't have raised as much money. It wouldn't have spent as much money, and it might still be around today. Larry: You obviously didn't know all your life that you were going to become an entrepreneur and since we're... Beth: I thought I was going to be an academic. Larry: There you go, see... Lucy: Well, you're that too, so there you go. Larry: A little change. Beth: So, I'm an academic. I play at academia. [laughter] Beth: I actually have on one occasion taken money from MIT to teach a class, and I realized that it was not for me. Because along with taking the money, comes a lot of faculty meetings and policies and procedures, and entrepreneurs don't really love those things. What's good about a company that's under 25 people is you don't need a huge amount of that stuff to be successful. Larry: Right. Beth: Some people are really good at structure and organization and detail, and that's not me. Larry: Not you, no. Well, then, what were the characteristics that made you really become a successful entrepreneur? We want to reach out this way, because we have many young people and employers and parents, who want to know what secrets they should look at when it comes to entrepreneurism. Beth: Certainly, like anything else it can be taught, and it can be learned over time. So, if you want to be an entrepreneur and you don't really understand what it is, go get a job or an internship with an entrepreneurial firm and get to know that person who started the company and watch them. Do it a couple of times. You'll learn whether it suits you or not. But in terms of what I think gives me an advantage; first of all, unbridled optimism to the point of stupidity at times. [laughter] Larry: I love it! Beth: You know, "You can't do that! You can't do that!" "Sure I can! Sure I can!" You know there is a limit, you beat your head against the wall a few times and you walk away, but hammering on and being tenacious at getting your objective. If it doesn't happen the way you think, you think of a second way. If it doesn't happen that way, you think of a third way. Maybe you don't end up accomplishing what you set out to do, but in the course of trying to accomplish it, you figure out where the real value is. So, it's a combination of being tenacious, and also being aware and being willing to change, and willing to take advantage of what God, the world, whatever, has presented to you in terms of opportunity. So, if you're trying to build widget A, and nobody wants widget A, but in order to make widget A, you had to make a fixture. And it turns out loads of people want that fixture, well go sell a fixture. Don't keep trying to sell a widget that nobody wants. Lucy: Exactly. I like that, 'unbridled optimism on the verge of stupidity.' I am just going to have to remember that one. Larry: I was looking in a mirror when you said that, yes. Beth: Also, you have to be able to learn from everybody around you. Lucy: That's totally right. Beth: Willing to talk about what you do in a pleasant way, not obnoxious, but to anyone who will listen. Because you never know where you're going to learn something, or who's going to have, "Gee. I know the guy who started that company that you want to have buy your company" or "Gee. I had a company like that, and we made this mistake" and so you can learn to avoid that mistake. Lucy: Absolutely. Beth: Or somebody you want to hire. And don't be afraid to hire people who know a lot more than you do. Lucy: Totally. Beth: It's a matter of risk right. If you're an investor, and I've done some investing as well, you look at what's the total risk package for this business. And anything, absolutely anything you can do to reduce the risk is a good thing. And so the more experience you have that's relative to the business you're in, even if you don't know it yourself or understand it. It's going to reduce that risk. Lucy: Well and that's great advice I think. It's all pointing towards another interview I think Larry. Beth: You could have me talking for days. Lucy: I know. No, no ...I've got all kinds of plans for you know now. So you've already mentioned to us that you are a published poet and we know you're a judge for many years with First Robotics. What else are you doing to bring balance into your professional and personal lives? Beth: Well, I mean it's a struggle. I mean I'm a single mom, so there is no such thing as balance in my life. But, I do things like, I've got a calendar I just printed out this morning because I wasn't sticking to my exercise routine. And just like my daughter gets stars for reading books and she turns it in at school every month. I'm going to have her help me put stars on my calendar for my exercise. Lucy: Oh, that's nice. Beth: And I have family dinner night, where I cut off work early usually on Fridays, so that I can cook a meal. And we can sit down and eat together because it doesn't happen that often. And when I was growing up that was something that was somewhat absent and I wanted my daughter to have that, and I wanted me to have that too. Because, there is this idea that, when I was in the beginning of my entrepreneurial career, I obsessed about the business 24/7 and drove myself nuts. You know, I hardly slept, and that's not the best way to be productive. As I've gotten older, I work smarter. And so I do everything that I can do to make every minute of my time incredibly effective. If I'm having a bad day and I'm not productive. I'm not going to hammer my head against the computer or the telephone, which is where most of my work happens. I'll go and do something nice for myself for an hour. You know, call a friend, go have a coffee, or do an errand I need for my home. Go do some food shopping and come back. And then I'm refreshed and renewed. I listen to books on tape at night as I'm falling asleep so that I can't think about business at night. I love novels and I love fiction. So that for me blocks out my ability to think business. Lucy: That's a great idea. Larry: Yeah, it really is, wow. You know Beth, you have achieved so much in so many different ways. Going back to your first company that you ended up selling to Microsoft and all the other Wins and that challenges along the way. You've achieved a lot what's up for you next? Beth: I would like to have a huge exit in Playsmart. So if anybody is listening who wants to buy a company like that, that's the goal. To build this to where there is enormous excitement about the product and many, many families are using it. And then get a bigger company with huge resources behind it. And then I'll be happy to step back, finish my book and invest and advise in others. Lucy: Wow, and we would love to see you write that book. Larry: Boy, I'll say. Lucy: That would be I mean great, great advice here and we thank you for taking time to talk to us. I want to remind those who are listening to this interview that they can find it at W3W3.com. Larry: That's right and we'll have it up also on our blog as well as our podcast directory so you can download it 24/7. Lucy: Well, I'm pleased to pass it... Beth: And if there are there any moms of kids interested in Playsmart. That's at Playsmart send me an email, I'll make sure you find out about a product when it's out this summer. Lucy: Absolutely, and we'll have that as well in the bio up on the site. So everybody can find it when they come to download the podcast. Very good, well thank you very much. Larry: Thank you. [music] Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Beth MarcusInterview Summary: Beth Marcus has been Founder and CEO of several successful startups, most notably EXOS, Inc., which was venture-backed and sold to Microsoft in 1996. Since then she has been involved in 14 start-ups in a variety of fields as a founder, investor, or advisor. Release Date: January 22, 2010Interview Subject: Beth MarcusInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 24:00

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Emily Olson Co-founder, Foodzie Date: June 29, 2009 Emily Olson: Foodzie [music] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I am the CEO of National Center for Women and Information Technology, or NCWIT, and this is one of an ongoing series of interviews that we're doing with women who have started IT companies. We've got an especially exciting one today for all of you people who like to eat. Larry Nelson: Yeah. Lucy: And for people who like to create food, and people who like to eat. With me is Lee Kennedy who is the CEO and founder of Boulder Search, herself a serial entrepreneur and also a board member of NCWIT. And also, Larry Nelson, CEO of W3W3. Is that what you call yourself? Larry: Yeah, well, I call myself all kinds of things, but I'll take that. Lucy: CEO of W3W3. Hi, Larry. How are you? Larry: Oh, absolutely magnificent. I'm really excited about this, and as you said before, Brad and David Cohen are very proud of her. In a little conversation that I had with David Cohen about a month ago, I said, "Wow, they're doing so well". He said, "Well, you know, if you really think of it. They've got the natural product, the natural thing, and they're just tapping into the IT". So, they're very proud of you. Lucy: Today we're talking with Emily Olson. The reason why we're all so proud of Emily is that she's a TechStars alum, and her people who have listened to our Entrepreneurial Toolbox new series, they'll know from the interview with David Cohen all about TechStars. It's a wonderful program here in Boulder to help budding entrepreneurs. Emily is the co-founder of Foodzie. It's an online marketplace here you can discover and buy food directly from all kinds of passionate food producers and growers. Listeners will be very eager to know that Emily just got back from Seattle where - I read in her blog - she looked at all kinds of great food at Pike Street Market and all those other places that you like to go when you are in Seattle. Emily and her co-founders were chosen by "Business Week" as three of the most promising young entrepreneurs in tech for 2009. Larry: Wow. Lee Kennedy: That's exciting. Lucy: So, welcome, Emily. Emily Olson: Thanks, thanks. I'm glad to be here. Lucy: First, tell us, before we get into our questions about entrepreneurship, what's going on at Foodzie? Emily: Well, there's a lot of exciting things going on. We've been growing a bunch, in particular our producer base, and just getting more and more sellers on board who share their products. But more specifically, right now a lot of people want to find what's local to them and we have more filters for them because that's something that we're working on right now as far as things that we're building. And yeah, improving the way both with the tools that help our producers to sell and help people to find specifically what they're looking for so we can improve the site. Lucy: Well, and I hear you've got great customer service at Foodzie, really. Emily: We try, yeah. Lucy: Really taking care of customers, and I think Brad mentioned that you are always bribing people with chocolate over at TechStars. Lee: I remember that. Emily: I usually joke that that's how we got in. We brought some sea salt caramels and LUCA chocolate out of North Carolina. We brought those with us, and sort of, now it's the expectation that wherever we go we do bring food. So, yeah, they got to know us well and we got to feed everybody there at TechStars. Lucy: Well, that's wonderful. Let's just get right to our entrepreneurship questions. We could talk about Foodzie all day. It's just kind of making me hungry. Emily: That would be my world. Larry: I was going to warn the listeners. When you go to the Foodzie website, you will get hungry. Lucy: Oh, it's just beautiful. So, Emily, why don't you give a bit of history about how you got into technology, and how you came to start a technology company? What technologies are cool, et cetera? Emily: OK, so I was actually - I still am - in the food business, and that's where I found something that I was really passionate about. I was working for a specialty food retailer called The Fresh Market based on the East Coast, and I worked directly with the buyers there in helping to source products. And I also manage their e-commerce there. I just saw a disconnect, basically, the small producers who were trying to get into these stores. It was really hard for them because they often had limited distribution. They didn't have the margins built in and they couldn't make their way into these brick-and-mortar stores. What I really liked about technology and what the Internet provides was more of an open platform where you have unlimited shelf space, and you have all these opportunities to have more of these producers without the barriers and limitations you have of a brick-and-mortar store. And you also have the opportunity with video and a lot of the social media that we have going on to actually connect with these producers and get to know them better which we don't have the opportunity to do when there is just packaging sitting on the shelf. That's what got me the most excited about what I was doing, that I was passionate about, was using technology to make it better. Lucy: So you use technology to tell the stories of the producers in addition to showing what they're selling. Emily: Absolutely, yeah. So not only are we using technology, we're trying to make it easy for them to get on with a store, sell their products to a wider audience, but also to share their story which -- if you go to a farmer's market and you actually get to meet the person that makes the food, that's kind of what is the object behind a lot of these products, getting that story. I think we have the ability and the technology to replicate that as closely as possible. So, yeah, those are the things that got me really excited. Lucy: So, Emily, we're always curious why entrepreneurs become entrepreneurs. So, tell us a little bit about why entrepreneurship makes you tick and just what it is that you love about it. Emily: Well, initially it starts by being a problem that you want to solve and realizing that you are going to need to go and solve it yourself. I actually think that's where it was for me, while I saw I wasn't going to be able to do it, it turns out that it didn't exist and you have to create something. I think someone who is willing to take a risk and who likes creating, who likes building, who likes all of that, I think leads you into entrepreneurship. At least that's how it happened for me. Lucy: And do you find yourself continuing to take that role at Foodzie as looking for the new challenges that need to be solved? Emily: I think new challenges are presented every day. I think, yeah, absolutely, and I think what's really exciting when you mentioned customer service. We have a very close relationship with all of the producers that sell on our site, and we try to have a very close relationship with customers that buy. If you listen to them and you discover you what their needs are, then you can iterate and develop the product to their needs. I think that's the most exciting thing as an entrepreneur, that you can guide it and you can make those decisions to change something. With a small team you can make it happen pretty fast. So, I think that's something that gets really - I don't know - exciting to be able to say, "Hey, I want to do this," and just do it. Oftentimes in bigger companies, and when you're not an entrepreneur you can't quickly make those choices. So that's what has been a lot of fun for me. Larry: Wow, that's fantastic. You know, we've interviewed now dozens of wonderful women in the NCWIT Hero Series, and you certainly are one of the youngest. I can't help but ask this. Who influenced you the most? Who supported you, or did you have mentors or advisors? Emily: Well, I think early on when I was in high school I had a very strong mentor who was actually a chemistry teacher of mine, but he sort of just instilled in me that I could do anything that I want. And I think I took that with me through and into my career. And so I definitely had that foundation early on. As far as taking a risk, I think it's having the right support around you. My co-founders, Rob and Nik, knowing that you have the right team to start with when you go into business is huge. It allows you to overcome the initial roadblocks and obstacles that often stop people who have a great idea to actually follow through with it. So I think that was a huge thing for me early on, and then when we got to TechStars we had some incredible mentors that took us from the IP stage all the way, to whether it was working on price strategy or how we were going to market it or wanting it on an open platform or a closed platform and all of those questions we went through. We had just mentors who had been through it who built their businesses and could offer us really good advice and that took us, I think, several steps ahead of where we would have been on our own. Lucy: Well, and you know, your answer really points again to the critical role of the encouragement in young people's lives that teachers have, especially in high school and college, that the can give you that confidence to believe in yourself, no matter what you're working on. It's incredibly important the number of stories we've heard about math teachers or chemistry teachers or anybody else really making sure that you had confidence. So turning now to something that may be a little less positive, we like to ask people the challenges that they've had so far in their career and what the one toughest thing you had to do so far in your career. What might that be? Emily: One? [laughs] Larry: Oh, yeah, yeah. Lucy: Only one. Larry: We don't have two hours. [laughter] Emily: The hardest thing, I think, for me actually has been to find people to come on board that are just as passionate as you are as far as the entrepreneur and founder of a company. I think you take that for granted when you are an employee and you are excited. Now, running a business it's totally different, and I think finding those people... We've been really fortunate. We have two employees working now for Foodzie. One of them came to us and said that, "I want to be a Foodzie," and had everything that we needed. And I wasn't even looking for, but came to us. We've been searching for some other people that we want to join the team, but it's been really, really hard. I think we care a lot about the culture we're building and making sure that people believe in it. And so I would say that has such a direct impact on the business that finding the right people has probably been the hardest thing that we had to do. Lucy: It is hard finding good people that have that same passion that you do about the company you started. So, Emily, you had mentioned earlier in the interview that you got some great coaching from a chemistry teacher. We are always curious, what kind of coaching you would give young people, people in high school, college, early 20s, about entrepreneurship, and what advice you'd give them as far as starting a company or weathering through a company? Emily: I think that I had mentioned before about having the right team around you. I think that's absolutely critical, and I think oftentimes people get discouraged on an idea that seems really exciting to start. Then it often becomes "I can't do it" because you're missing pieces that can get you through that. And so I definitely think that above all else when you have a great idea, think about how you can round out your team. I think two to three founders to develop is the right number. It was three for us, and I think it was, perhaps, the perfect number because we rounded out the technology and marketing business side. So that's one thing. Surround yourself with the right team. But also find what you're really passionate about and make sure that this idea that you have is something you want to spend every day, all day, every weekend, thinking about for the next couple of years because it is all-consuming. When the days are really hard and long, if you're passionate about it and you really love what you're doing, it's a little bit easier. I know that's something for me. This is the space that I am truly, truly passionate about, and that work/life balance. Sometimes I confuse the two. Is this work? Is this life? I don't know. It's the same. So I think that finding something that you're passionate about is really important. Sometimes, I think that overused when people often say like, "Well, what the heck am I passionate about? I don't know. Am I passionate about this?" For me, I found I was passionate about food in college because I was putting off my homework and everything else to cook and do all these things that were related to food. And so I think if you're trying to look for what you're passionate about or trying to see if this idea you are going after is something you're passionate about. See if it's the kind of thing you would want to do, if you didn't have to work at all and you just had to retire and someone was going to pay your way and you had free time to do whatever. Would you want to be doing that? I think that's an important thing to think about. I think it is just really important when you're starting a business. Larry: Emily, you mentioned working eight days a week or something like that. Emily: [laughter]. Somewhere around there. Lee: He must be worried that you're working. Larry: Right, right. I know. I guess we can associate with that. Isn't that right, Lee? Lee: I was going to say that as being a serial entrepreneur, you've got to love it because you are doing it all the time, morning, noon and night. And if you don't love it, it's just gets to be a drag. Larry: And now I'm going to ask for a real tough question. Lucy: Oh, good. We are ready for it [laughter]. Larry: With all these... Emily: I already got that one [laughter] Larry: Oh, well, listen to this one. With all that you were talking about, how do you bring balance into your personal and your professional lives? Emily: If you're doing what you're passionate about, I think that the line is often blurred. I feel like I can go and do something like go to a cooking event and go and learn how to make chocolate truffles and that was just purely enjoyment for me. But I can tie it back to a business in a way, like I can write a blog about it or whatever might be. So for me, that's been it, because the line is kind of blurred. But even though I am passionate about what I do, I do have to disconnect and just not be doing something not related to the business. And I think for me it's going out nature. I've been fortunate the few places we operate Foodzie are in Colorado and San Francisco, California. Both have amazing outdoors and places to go and explore. And so I get to go offline and go do those kind of things like hiking in San Francisco, sailing and things like that. And also, try to plan it into your schedule. I think I've set a couple of goals for myself outside of just getting into nature. I want to learn how to play the guitar. I want to learn more about the American history and I want to join a soccer league. And that's for the entire year, but I try to work a little bit of accomplishing those every couple of weeks, so that I make sure I do those things. Lucy: Very wise. Larry: Yes, I'll say. I like that answer. Lucy: Plus I want some chocolate truffles. [laughs] Emily: That made you guys hungry, huh? Lucy: You keep bringing out the subject on chocolate that just really outstanding. Well it's really fascinating to listen to everything that you're saying, especially about the history of Foodzie. I know you have a very bright future. So this next question, which is our final question is kind of hard to ask. But what's next for you? It's hard to know, because you're right in the very beginning you started a wonderful company. But perhaps you can speculate a bit with us about what's next. Emily: Well, I think what's next is definitely something related to Foodzie. We'll be doing this for a good while. And I think our big vision is to help small food producers across this country succeed and stay in business. And we've really only scratched the surface in doing that. So we really want to just become partners with these producers and help them build their business. I know that's sort of a vague answer, but we want to have a big impact. We want to be a part of a movement that changes the way people eat in this country. And we think we can be, and I think technology has a lot to do with that. That and connecting people, giving these people the tools they need and getting people become aware of what they're doing. So yeah, I think that's it. Lucy: That's awesome. Larry: Yeah. Emily that's not vague, that's wonderful. Lucy: It's an awesome mission, I just wanted to personally know how small a producer because I'm kind of a gardener. [laughter] Lucy. I have way too much food. I give it to all my neighbors. Larry: So your website is Foodzie.com. Emily: Yeah, Foodzie.com. Larry: Wonderful. Lucy: And everybody needs to go visit and eat. Emily: Check out the chocolate section and I'm sure you'll find something that'll get you to start salivating. It's a pretty dangerous category. Lucy: Well, thank you very much, Emily, for talking with us and I just want to remind listeners where they can find these podcasts. They can find it at our website, NCWIT.org and w3w3.com. Larry: You bet. Lucy: Make sure that you pass this along to others. Emily, thank you very much. Lee: Thank you, Emily. Larry: Thank you. [music] Transcription by CastingWords Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Emily OlsonInterview Summary: Like many entrepreneurs, Emily Olson saw a niche, got an idea, and ran with it. Foodzie uses technology to share great food from smaller producers with a larger audience. Release Date: June 29, 2009Interview Subject: Emily OlsonInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 17:56

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Ellen Siminoff President and CEO, Shmoop University Date: June 1, 2009 Ellen Siminoff: Shmoop University Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women & Information Technology, or NCWIT, and this is one of a continuing series of interviews that we're doing with really just outstanding women who have started IT companies. With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3.com. Hi, Larry and welcome. Larry Nelson: I am so happy to be here. This is going to be a very interesting interview. As we get into it Ellen is going to see that there's some similarities between us. Lucy: Well, that's a pretty scary thought. Larry: Yeah, it is; isn't it? Lucy: Ellen, run. Today we are interviewing Ellen Siminoff, and she is the President and CEO of Shmoop University. Now, this site is something that our listeners really must go and see. They have a great mission. Shmoop is an education Website, and their goal is to make everyone lovers of literature, history and poetry. I went there last night and started looking around, and I really like the idea of their Book Club where they review books and even have questions for teachers to use with books, and I thought it was really fascinating that people creating their content, master's degree students and Ph.D. students, really looking for great original and creative content to help students and teachers. I found a little humor on the site as well, so it really cracked me up. Shmoop guarantees better grades. There was an asterisk next to it, and it said: "not an actual guarantee." Anyway, welcome, Ellen, we're really happy to have you for this interview. Ellen Siminoff: Thanks for the great review of this site. That was great. Lucy: Well, we're really happy to have you and before we get into the entrepreneur questions, I really wanted to know how you came up with the name, "Shmoop," and what's going on with the company. Ellen: Well, I started the company with my husband. Shmoop is a Yiddish term for trying to move something forward a little bit. So, my husband's grandmother always used to say to him, "Shmoop this, shmoop that" so we're trying to move education and learning forward a little bit. Larry: Shmoop, I love it. Lucy: I love it. Down in Louisiana we used to say we were carrying somebody from here to there, even though you're actually driving them. Now, we can say we shmoop around. Larry: I'm for shmooping. Lucy: I'm for shmooping. Well so, Ellen, how did you first get into technology? You are using technology in the delivery of your company, obviously, and so our listeners would really like to know what you're looking at as particularly interesting technologies today. Ellen: I got into technology because I was really interested in media, and media became very important to technology. I started a different company with my husband many, many years ago. It was about 18 years ago, and we were distributing television programming in eastern Europe and that made me love the media industry. Then I went to the Los Angeles Times, and I started running their online Classifieds. This was really early. It was like 1994 when the Internet, and if you remember Prodigy and CompuServe and AOL were all fighting it out. I started realizing that technology could be used to deliver media in a really interesting way. Larry: Wow, that's terrific. Remember, I warned you up front that there's something that we have in common. First of all, on your Website there's so many things I like about your Website, but I am also, like you, a lover of chocolate. Ellen: All right. Larry: I'm a cheese head. I used to live in Wisconsin. Ellen: All right. Larry: And I still struggle with golf, so I think that's enough similarities, right? Ellen: Those are great similarities, but have you been shot? Larry: No, but I almost shot my dad when we were hunting once. Lucy: Have you been shot? I'm sure there's more to that story. Larry: It's on the Website. Lucy: Oh, I better go look at that part of it. Well so, Ellen, I was sitting here thinking about technology today. Do you see any particular technologies on the horizon that you think are pretty interesting? Ellen: I'm a big lover of the Kindle. I think the approach Amazon and, obviously, some others in that space have taken about taking a text book and providing a much easier way for students to get their information. I think it's fabulous. I think, first of all, we don't need to have orthopedic problems from carrying around back packs loaded with books, and second, text books are really expensive. They has to be a less expensive way to deliver the same amount of material, so I'm really excited about that one. Larry: Yeah, I am, too. Now that they've got the new, big one, I like that even more. Ellen: As I get older, the bigger print would be fine. Lucy: I see them on planes more and more now. Ellen: Yes, I actually always bring mine every time I travel because, why lug a book around? Larry: Right, you bet. Well, I get the part about technology and all, but why are you an entrepreneur, and what is it about you that makes the entrepreneur part of you tick? Ellen: Well, I think entrepreneurs are people who would be just dreadful employees... because it's chosen for us. For me, I have always sort of gone with smaller companies that I like the people and the idea. When I started Yahoo, we were just a handful of folks, and we thought we were changing the world. Hopefully, we did to some extent. I started up Fischer Frontier which subsequently became the largest search engine marketing firm when it was just a couple of guys with a really neat math algorithm. Shmoop, my husband and I came up with in our back yard. So, for me it's about the idea and the people and the excitement of creating it. The other benefit of being an entrepreneur is you have very little bureaucracy. When a decision needs to be made, you sort of look around at your four or five key people and you resolve it quickly, and that's exciting for me. Lucy: So, along your path you're a serial entrepreneur and you've had a lot of success along your path, who has influenced or supported you? Who are your role models? Ellen: Well, if it hasn't become clear, my husband has been really supportive which I think is great. We've worked together a number of times, and he's pushed me more than I probably would have pushed myself. I have phenomenal parents who basically told me dream big and we're your number one fans, whatever you want to do. So, they've been great, and I've had some terrific teachers along the way. Back to the Wisconsin thing, I had a great eighth grade teacher at Mapledale Elementary School who told me, "You might be pretty smart. Think about what you might want to do in life". I was in eighth grade, and I still remember that conversation. Lucy: Isn't it amazing that you do? That kind of influence on young people by teachers, it really sticks. Ellen: It's amazing. We actually have a page on Shmoop, a teachers' page, that we literally went to the Ph.D.s and Masters I alluded to before and all of us here at the office have said, "So which teacher influenced you the most?" We wound up with this great list of our favorite teachers and how they impacted our lives. And I think that every person who's reasonably successful can identify one of the teachers who made a big difference to them. Larry: Oh, that's fantastic. You know, you mentioned you and your husband. My wife and I, we've started 12 different companies over the years, and it's an extra little plus that as an entrepreneur you can do that. Ellen: That's great. That's inspirational. We have a few more to go. Larry: Well, OK. I'm just a kid, but... Ellen, what is the toughest thing that you have ever had to do in your career? Ellen: Oh, I think the toughest thing anyone has to do is ask someone to leave a company when that person is doing a good job, but they're somehow... morals or conduct or behavior goes against what you want your company to do. I think any CEO or hiring person will tell you, that's the hardest call you ever have to make. Lucy: And, in fact, I think we've done about 50 of these interviews, and that comes up over and over and over again, I think, along with having to leave a company you don't want to leave. Ellen: Yeah, transitions are very hard. I think transitions in life are very hard, and transitions in companies are very hard. The reality is, there's a certain number of years when you're productive to a company, and even if you're doing a good job, you reach a certain comfort level, and sometimes it makes sense to bring in some fresh blood. Lucy: I think that's right, if for no other reason that your network's been tapped out, or something else, that other people can bring in new thinking. So, this gets us into our next question. I think this notion that transitions are hard is really insightful. What other things would you tell a young person or anybody about entrepreneurship, and what kinds of advice would give them? Ellen: I think there's two things I would tell someone. The first is a practical thing, which is, do something you love, and do it with people you love or like, and all good things will come from that. I can't tell you the number of people who turn down great opportunities because their friends told them it was a bad idea, or it didn't fit in the sort of boxes that they had been taught in business school about how to evaluate an idea, or someone told them the business is going to be bad. So, you've got to, a lot of times, go with your instincts, and go with the businesses that make sense to you, and that you doing it, and with people you like, and then I would bet the percentages are in your favor. The second idea I would have for someone is a little less practical, but more of a gut instinct thing, and that is, don't worry so much. I think if you work hard, and you get a little bit lucky, and your timing is good, you will find good opportunities. If I had known how much fun I would have had doing different things, I wouldn't have worried so much along the way. Larry: Wow. Lucy: Is there a Yiddish word for, "Don't worry so much?" Ellen: No, I don't know that one, but I'll have to call my dad. Lucy: I think it could lead to a new company name. Ellen: I always think of, hakuna matata, right? Lucy: Yes, that's right. Exactly. But, I think you're right. Ellen: It's not Yiddish, but it should be. Larry: You got it. Lucy: It probably should be. Larry: Well, I've got to ask another question here that pertains to everything we've talked about so far, but we're now looking at you. What are some personal characteristics that make you a successful entrepreneur? Ellen: I think it's relentlessness, right? I think anybody's who's willing to face in the Internet world zero wages, zero revenue, you know, and a blank sheet of paper, I think yes, you have to have a certain passion, and relentlessness, and drive, and be internally focused, that you don't need someone every day telling you, "This is a great idea. You're going to do great." You've got to just have it from within and be laser-focused on executing. Lucy: I'm just writing this down. I mean, I think the laser focus is exactly right, and the relentlessness, you know, we've heard before, as well. Some people have said even, "stubborn," or... Ellen: I don't know that I would necessarily always write stubborn, because there's a fine line between being crazy and being brilliant. Lucy: That's true. Ellen: Most of the people will tell you that their original idea was not always their final idea, so you need to have a balance of having great conviction in what your doing, but being flexible with what the environment is telling you. Lucy: So, you had a very successful career starting companies, and obviously when you start a company, I'm sure you put everything into it, and give it your all, and people often want to know, well, how then do you balance that with a personal life, if, in fact, balance really exists? Ellen: Oh, I believe in balance. I think you set limits. I think that working smart is a lot better than working every hour of every day. I think being efficient matters. I've seen people take so much time to do something, where that could be done a lot quicker, and I sometimes think when you have more things to do, you're more focused about the things you have to get done. In terms of balance, you just have to. Nobody goes to their grave saying, "I wish I would have worked harder." Lucy: Absolutely. Ellen: I have a great family. I run half-marathons. I have deadly, struggling golf game, and I think the Spectaculars are the most fun, coolest organization on earth. So, you've got to get out there and do other thing, and I think you have a better approach to work when you do. Larry: That's some excellent advice. Gaining balance, or whatever that is, is one of the most difficult thing for new entrepreneurs, but they've got to somehow, as time goes along, really build that balance into their life. Ellen: Oh, you're so right. And you've gone on with your life, so it's especially... I do know couples where one of them doesn't like to come home and talk about work or the other doesn't. We just incorporate it in our lives. Lucy: There's an integration process there, I think. Ellen: Yeah. But at the same point, there are points, you know, my husband... you know, sometimes people are amazed that they'll say something to Dave, and he'll say, "Well, I don't know about this, that's in Ellen's area." And they think that all we do 100 percent of the time is only talk our business stuff, and there are sometimes many days we don't even discuss anything "businessy." Lucy: Well, that's so healthy, and also, you find things that way. Sometimes you find things when you just open up like that, that relate to the business that you never would have seen if you were just working all the time. So, that's very powerful. So, Ellen, you've achieved a lot, and we like to find out from the people we interview what's next for you. You obviously have a new company and so you'll probably be putting a lot of time into that, but anything else you'd like to share, either what's next for you, or what's next for Shmoop? Ellen: Well, I think for Shmoop, I think we've done a really good job on lit., and history and poetry. We're going to do more in civics and get some of the math and sciences up there, because I think it's really important to be able to read, write, and do arithmetic. So, we've got to add the third stool. Lucy: Well, we'd really like to talk about computing. Ellen: Oh, wow, that would be great! Lucy: Well, thank you so much. I just love your site. Larry: I love your site, and I just want to say this one thing. Lucy referred to this, but she buried it a little bit. Right off of your Website, one headline there that really caught my attention said, "Shmoop wants to make you a better lover." Lucy: Of literature. Larry: Well, then, in parenths. Lucy: Oh. Larry: "Of literature, history, poetry, and writing. I'm just getting in the complete line." Lucy: Oh, OK. Ellen: Well, you know, if you just become a better lover, that'd be OK, too, but we'd like you to like lit., history, and poetry. Larry: Oh, a fellow cheese head for sure. Thank you so much, Ellen, for joining us today. Ellen: My pleasure. Thank you for having me. Larry: And by the way, you listeners out there, make sure you pass this interview on to others that you know would be interested, and they can find the entire thing, and download it at any time at ncwit.org, as well as w3w3.com. Thank you for joining us. Lucy: Thank you. Transcription by CastingWords Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Ellen SiminoffInterview Summary: Entrepreneurs are "people who would be just dreadful employees", says Ellen Siminoff. For those who go the entrepreneurship route, however, the appeal is in "the idea and the people and the excitement of creating something." Release Date: June 1, 2009Interview Subject: Ellen SiminoffInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 15:42

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Elisa Camahort Page Co-founder, BlogHer Date: June 1, 2009 Elisa Camahort Page: BlogHer [intro music] Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, from the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. This is one of a continuing series of interviews we are doing with women who have started IT companies. We've had a great, great interview series with some very influential, distinguished and successful women, and were very happy to get all of you bloggers listening to this are going to be very happy with the interview we're doing today. It's with Elisa Camahort Page. With me is Larry Nelson, from W3W3.com. Hi, Larry! Larry Nelson: Hi! Well, it's a pleasure to be here, and especially Elisa, I just want you to know, I have four daughters. So, we're really interested in this interview. Elisa Camahort Page: Oh! Excellent, Larry. Lucy: Are they bloggers? Larry: Yeah, you betcha! Lucy: Are you a blogger? Larry: Yes. Lucy: A beginning blogger. He's turning red, everybody. Larry: Well, for three years, and I'm still bad at it. Lucy: [laughs] Well, we're very happy to have you here, Elisa. Elisa is the co-founder and CEO of BlogHer. I did a little research on how BlogHer started, and I believe it's a fairly young company, like 2005. You had your first conference in Santa Clara. Is that right? Elisa: Yeah. We had our first conference in July of 2005. So, we're having our fifth annual event this July in Chicago. Lucy: Wow! That's a pretty fast growth on your part. I know that BlogHer is really turning into the leading community and media network for women who blog. You reach over 14 million women each month, either through your conference, or the web, or through a new publishing network that you have. Why don't you say a bit about that publishing network? Elisa: Oh, absolutely. That's right, we did get started with the conference in 2005. After that conference, we really got three primary people to feedback. The first was, "Oh, more conferences please, " because there is something about that in real life connection that happens. The second was about, "How can we sort of find each other everyday?" And hence we launched BlogHer.com in January of 2006, which is really the hub of our entire network. But then, we also had a segment of our community was saying, "Isn't there a better business model? We've been trying some sites, either AdSense and other networks and other kinds of advertising solutions, but we're really getting pennies for the traffic that we're building, for the communities that we're building." So, that's what really motivated us to start the blog for publishing network, which we did in the middle of 2006. We started with just a small, little group of about 35 mommy bloggers, just to test the concept. When that was successful, we expanded. Over the last almost three years now, we now have almost 2, 500 women of all kinds of blogging topics in our network. They reach over 14 million unique visitors a month. Lucy: That's quite a network. Larry: I'm impressed, yes. Lucy: Yeah. That's quite a network! What are the hot topics these days on some of those blogs? Elisa: Well, what's interesting to us is that one of our earliest decisions that we didn't want to sell only women's interest, either on BlogHer.com or on the network and say, "Oh! We only care about parenting," or "We only care about food, " or "Beauty" or on the other hand, but women who care about politics and means and technology, only care about those things. Actually, we're quite multifaceted creatures. We care about all of those topics on the same day. So, we have always on BlogHer.com featured the full range of subject matters that can be covered in the photosphere, and our network has everybody, from every stripe of the photosphere also in it. What's interesting is how certain things bleed through every vertical. So, for instance the economy. It doesn't matter if you're a food blogger, a parenting blogger, a technology blogger, a political blogger, you're probably talking about the economy right now. Last year, it didn't matter if you were a food blogger, or a parenting blogger, or a technology blogger or a political blogger, you were talking about the election. So, there are common themes that people care about across all different areas of focus. By featuring all of those diverse places, we really get to see that full picture of what people are saying about those topics. Lucy: Well, I went there yesterday to get my fill on "American Idol." [laughter] Elisa: Oh! That's my guilty pleasure. Lucy: Well, me too. I'm sure we could take up the whole tape talking about our favorite singers, but I like Adam Lambert. Elisa: Of course! Lucy: Of course! Elisa: He should win, that's clear. Lucy: He should win. Well, this is probably a good time to get into questions for the interview. Our first one centers around technology. Our listeners always like to hear from the people we interview about the technology they think is really cool, that's going to change the way we communicate, or the way we work, or the way we play. So, what technologies do you see that are out there? Elisa: Well, I originally don't come from a technology background. I have no engineering degree. I really came into it quite late, in the high tech back in '97, when it was very boom times for Silicon Valley. What I discovered is that I had actually an aptitude for understanding technology, and then translating it to different audiences, whether they were engineering audiences, or consumer audiences, or business audiences. So, today that's still a big part of what I do, which is explain why technologies are cool to people who may not already get it, like blogging, like Twittering, like my iPhone. What I see today, what humans are doing right now with technology is they are building ways to connect and converse. In your life, most of the people I know are finding it more and more difficult to keep in touch with people face-to-face, that our lives are so busy. We're so time impoverished, there's so many things that seem to conspire against us being able to do as much in real life as we used to. People used to think that technology was an isolating factor, and it was taking us away from people, but I think what we've done is used technology to connect with people online for a lot of our time, instead of in meet space. So, I think I would debate anyone who says that technology isolates us. We've seen amazing examples of how it brings us together, and how it creates communicates across boundaries that used to be pretty drawn in the sand, social economic boundaries, geographic boundaries. A lot of those boundaries get knocked down by this kind of totally distributed communications channel of the Internet. I see that we are developing more and more ways to keep in touch, to communicate with one another. People ask me why I like Twitter. To me, Twitter is poetic almost, the way you get these little snapshots of people's lives. The way you see who they are, beyond even the thoughts and sort of planning and structure that goes into a blog post. I use Twitter often just to mention the music I like, or something I saw that made me stop and think. It's so quick and easy to get a little thought out there that really reveals who I am in a way that a blog post would take too much time, and I might not ever get around to it for something that seems so small. Yet those little small things are what completely differentiate us, and make us each such unique individuals. It's actually applications like Twitter that enable us to show that unique individuality to the world. So, I think it's a beautiful thing. Lucy: Well, and I think that really shows to the listeners. That's one of the most eloquent, impassioned descriptions of social media that I have ever heard. [laughs] Larry: Yes, me too. Me too. Lucy: I think that was just beautiful. Elisa: Oh, thank you. You know I do a presentation that blogging is about love. Lucy: Oh, that's nice. Elisa: It's about, we find, we love what we can do with this technology and we find all forms of love out there in our communities. Most people do it for love and passion. Even people who make money on it. At the core it's because they're writing about something they love. Lucy: I really love that. Larry: Yes, yes I did too. Lucy: I think that's great. You mentioned that you came into technology a little late, transitioned into it and you found that you loved explaining technology to people. Why are you an entrepreneur? We know I think why you love technology and you like to explain it to people based on your last answer but why are you an entrepreneur? What is it about that that makes you tick? Elisa: Well, to be honest I'm an entrepreneur because of serendipity and then passion. I wasn't planning. My plan, one of my earliest role models was my mother who went back to work in the 70's when I was in junior high. She was very much corporate oriented and climbed up the ladder, went from some part time person at a company to being their first female vice president. I really found myself following in that path. I planned to climb the corporate ladder but then I luckily got the opportunity to try working on my own. What I discovered was that I loved not having anyone in "management" to blame for the bad decisions. At least now if there's a bad decision, I was part of it and I can be part of fixing it. I really loved that accountability all the way to the top of the chain. I also say that wherever you work, you're going to bang your head against the wall about some things. When you're an entrepreneur, you get to bang all the different sides of your head. It's not the same thing over and over and over. It's constantly refreshing. There are constantly new things to challenge you and new things really to bring you joy in what you accomplish. There's just this sense of control, and accountability and ownership that after you've done that climb up the corporate ladder for a while and you realize how much is happening above you that you don't have that control, or really the accountability, or the ownership. It's pretty fulfilling to put yourself in that position. Larry: Well, Elisa you mentioned that your mother had an influence upon you. Along the way are there other people maybe who either been role models for you or maybe even mentored you? Elisa: Absolutely. I had a couple of early, great mentors when I decided to go into high tech. I had been in a completely different industry doing marketing but many other things in small companies. I really started at the bottom in tech, in the marketing department. I was just a junior level person. My boss, who was the vice president of the marketing department, he really, he also liked what I had to say. He liked how I thought. He included me in a lot high level calls and meetings just to observe really. Just to be a part of it and see what went on. Afterwards he wanted to ask me my take as someone with an objective view. He really gave me the opportunity from a business point of view to learn a lot quickly. Then at the same time, there was director of product management in that same department who was my technical mentor. He didn't dismiss me because I didn't have an engineering degree. He really taught me our company's technology. He wanted me to write about it. He just thought, maybe she'll write better if she actually understands it. He didn't assume, as a lot of people sometimes do with marketing people, that oh they're not going to really get it. I'm just going to get them bullet points and they'll put in the flowery language but I'll have to do all the really techy stuff. Lucy: [laughs] Elisa: He wasn't like that at all. He was like, if I spend a little bit of time, I think this person can pick it up. He was the one who really started giving more and more technical things to do and really showed me that I had an aptitude for that. From there, I had to take that and do something with it. I had to go and put myself out there for more technical jobs even though I didn't have that educational background. I'm the one who said, "I'm going to go for product manager job anyway. I'm going to go to lead this product management team anyway because I understand this stuff and I have all these other skills". It was those two mentors who very early on, really gave me the chance to learn and we're open to letting me learn. They were both men and this is a very male dominated company. I give both a lot of credit for that. Lucy: Well, and your story speaks to the important role of encouragement. To those of us who are in the business of encouraging more young women to pursue computing and technical fields. Encouragement is a huge thing. Elisa: Yes. Lucy: Just huge. On the flip side of encouragement, [laughs] and positive role models... Larry: Yes. Lucy: There also comes a time in entrepreneurial careers when something, you have to do something really hard, really tough. Why don't you tell our listeners what's the toughest thing you've ever had to do. Elisa: There are two things that I think are tough. One is tough because of what it does to somebody else and one is tough because of what you're doing to yourself. The first is that it's tough to let someone go whether it's for cause or whether it's a layoff and not for cause. It is hard to sit in a room and tell someone you are putting an end to their livelihood. It's a huge responsibility. I don't want to be someone who gets cavalier about that. I have found that over the kind of conversations afterwards, I go in the ladies room and put a little cold water on my face because it's a tremendous responsibility and it's tremendously difficult. That's not to say I would never be one of those people who said, "Oh it's harder for me. It's as hard on me as it is for you". That's bullshit because they're the one losing their job so I'm not going there but it is hard. You feel bad about it, whatever the reason. The other thing is it's tough but usually worthwhile to be the contrarian if it's something you really believe in. On a couple of occasion I have felt like I had to speak up and disagree. Sometimes this is in a room when I was the only woman, when I was the only without an engineering degree, when I was the only one; in some cases where I was the only one who wasn't already a vice president or C level person. I thought I was standing up for the customer instead of just trying to ignore that fact and move forward with blinders on. I think those early experiences really matter a lot now because Blogger is such a community focused company and we still have to think about the customer. The community member and what they think and feel first and foremost. That is what's still serves me and my company today is having that perspective. You can have that perspective even if you're at a B to B company, even if you're way back on the chain from the end consumer. Your customer is still really first and foremost I think. Larry: Wow, I'll say. You know that's a great lead in to my next question and that is on w3w3.com we've been getting overwhelmed almost by the amount of requests and listening to anything that has to do with entrepreneurship. Of course in these tough economic times, there seems to be quite a few people either out of work or whatever that are looking to become entrepreneurs. If you were sitting down right now with a young person who wanted to start their business, become an entrepreneur what advice would you give them? Elisa: Well the first piece of advice I would give anyone is take the risk. Many people never take the risk because of fear. That they allow that fear to be nameless and undefined. What I actually say is, "Think about it right now. What's the actual worst thing that could happen if this fails"? Most of us have safety nets and options that we don't fully credit ourselves with having. So in my case, I certainly had... I was living with someone who helped share expenses. I had savings. I had a home-equity line of credit. I had a lot of resources to draw on. But let's just say, "What could have been the worst that could have happened if both my business and my relationship had failed miserably at the same time?" It would not have been awesome to move back in with my mother at the age of 40, but it wouldn't have been the end of the world, either. That was a safety net I had, right? And we manned this business until we got our first round of funding. I really was... I had spent all my savings. I had taken out money on my line of credit. I had some credit card debt that didn't exist before. I really worked it to the last dollar I was willing to work it, and then we got our funding, and so that made us able to continue. But even if that had all failed and had not come through, I think it would have been worth it, and the very worst-case scenario for me wasn't as bad, once I thought it through, as my imagination was making it when I didn't really look into the details. So, I always tell people to ask themselves, "Now, honestly, really, what's the worst thing that could happen if you try this and it fails?" Lucy: That's great advice. Larry: That certainly is. Elisa: And I think most people think it through, and they imagine ending up on the streets, and I think there are some people who have different circumstances, where maybe their risk is higher, but a lot times people who don't really have... they're in their twenties. They don't really have a huge amount o'clock risk, and they have a lifetime to recover if it doesn't go well. So, go for it. You might as well act as though you're going to live until forever, and have all the time in the world to rebuild if you're in your 20s, for god's sake. Lucy: Absolutely. And I think some people worry what others are going to think about them if they fail, and that is just an ego thing. Larry: Yes, I'll say it is. Elisa: And I think that actually people are way more impressed with entrepreneurs than they even have to be, and I'm surprised how even in the early days, people were just like, "Wow. You're doing your own thing, and you're doing this, and you're doing that. Wow." I think actually people will be way more, if they care about you, you know... I think people are way more impressed that you tried something, even if it ends up failing, than if you don't. Lucy: That's the truth. So, along the lines of this question, listeners are always interested in knowing about personal attributes, or personal characteristics that you believe make you a great entrepreneur. Elisa: I have this rather checkered past career-wise. I think this is probably my fourth career. The advantage of that as opposed to someone who goes to school for something, gets a job, and then stays in that career, I don't feel like my identity is actually... who I am is not what I do. I developed this confidence that I could jump to a new career and pick it up, and do what I needed to do, and do pretty well. And it's not because I was some great student. I was actually an underachiever. But that also... even back then, I never equated my identity with the grades I got, or the salary I made, or the job title I had. So, I think that bred in me this confidence of being willing to take that risk, being willing to ask questions even if they made me look stupid, but usually, you know what? They didn't make me look really stupid. They made me look really smart. So, I think all of that goes into this... you need some chutzspah, I think, to be an entrepreneur. You need to believe in yourself. You need to believe in your judgment, and you need to not get tied up in what other people think, because you're going to get a lot of "no's" to get to your "yes, " and that's especially true if you start going for funding. Not everyone is going to want to put money into your great idea, not because they think it's a good or bad idea, but because it's just not going to fit their portfolio. So, you have to have something separate from what other people identify you as, and what other people think, that makes you believe in yourself and what you're doing. Larry: You know, you mentioned, "Who I am is not what I do." With the busy, busy, schedule, and everything that you're doing, how do you bring balance into your personal and professional lives? Elisa: Well, OK, let's be honest. I've co-founded a start-up in Silicon Valley, and we are still working to hit milestones and goals that will really propel us to a state of permanent success, not just quarter-by-quarter success. I don't think balance is a realistic part of the equation right now. I think I would be lying if I said, "I balance my personal and professional lives." I work all the time. You know, it's not like I never... my birthday was last week, so I went to the city for the weekend with my husband, and you know, we had a great time, and I really didn't get on the computer that much. So, I'm not saying I never get to do anything personal, but I really make no concerted effort to have balance, and maybe that's not [laughs]... Larry: [laughs] Elisa: Maybe a lot of people won't think that's the most encouraging answer, but this is Silicon Valley. I think that's the way it is. Lucy: And well, we find to... we ask this question of all the people we interview, and there's a wide variety of answers, but many are saying that they are completely unbalanced. In fact, I was laughing to myself when you said it was your birthday, and you took the day off. Elisa: [laughs] Lucy: I tried really hard. I tried really hard. My birthday was April 4th, and I was going to take the day off. I'm the CEO of a non-profit, right? Of course, I worked the whole day. Larry: Yes, of course. Elisa: And it is different. I though I was working really hard when I was running a team at a company, and I did work really, really hard, but it's nothing compared to when it's your own, and you could basically, work all the time. And for a lot of us who are entrepreneurs, you're doing this because you hope it's going to pay off in a way that will buy you some kind of freedom and flexibility later. But a lot of entrepreneurs I know, they go on to the next...they want to do the next thing. So, there's a certain, I think, consistency of no one who probably starts a company and is putting themselves through this is... no one is probably someone who otherwise would be sitting on a lounge chair eating bon bons. I mean, they're all pretty motivated people. [laughs] Lucy: Yes, that's true. Well, Elisa, you've really achieved a lot, and we appreciate you talking to us, but we'd also like to know, maybe as the last question, what do you see in the future? What's next for you? Elisa: Well, that's funny question, because as far as I'm concerned, there are just miles to go before I sleep with BlogHer being all consuming, and we have all this opportunity for growth and expansion, and we're figuring out the best way to take advantage of those opportunities. And I think that... and my two partners Lisa Stone, and Jory des Jardin... I think we're all pretty much the same way right now, which is that, we're not thinking too hard what's beyond, because we need to make this really happen, and it may take a year, or two years, three years, four years. And also, might I also say, that we all agree that we now made for ourselves the best jobs we have ever had. So, it's not like we wouldn't want to keep doing this forever. We get to do something we're really passionate about. We're a very mission-based organization, and we get to work with a lot of other really smart people, so I really... what's next for me is to make all the promise really come to fruition. If I can do that, then I'll think about what might happen after that. But we're not there yet. We have miles to go. Lucy: Well, and you are in a great job. It's at a crossroads of lots of interesting topics, so you certainly have made quite a great job for yourself. Elisa: Yes, we love it. Lucy: It's wonderful. Well, thank you very much for spending time with us. Elisa: Oh, you're welcome. My pleasure. Lucy: And thank you, Larry. People can find the podcasts W3W3.com., and also ncwit.org. Larry: You betcha. We'll follow up with you, too. Lucy: All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Hope you to meet at May 11. Elisa: You absolutely will. Lucy: All right. [music] Transcription by CastingWords Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Elisa Camahort PageInterview Summary: "Women are quite multi-faceted creatures", says Elisa Camahort Page -- women are interested in technology, the economy, parenthood, politics, and much, much more. That's why the BlogHer network comprises 2,500 women writing about a broad range of "verticals", attracting more than 14 million unique visitors per month. Release Date: June 1, 2009Interview Subject: Elisa CamahortInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 23:52

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Rashmi Sinha CEO & Co-founder, SlideShare Date: April 27, 2009 Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of the National Center for Women & Information Technology, or NCWIT. This is another of our interviews with women who have started IT companies. I'm very excited today to be interviewing Rashmi Sinha. With me today is Larry Nelson, as usual, from w3w3.com. Larry Nelson: Hello, and it's my pleasure to be here. This is going to be an exciting interview. We'll have this, of course, on w3w3.com also, and it's been a spectacular, popular series. Lucy: Absolutely. And you're doing something else interesting at w3w3 these days, aren't you? Larry: We just launched our own TV show "IPTV." Lucy: You'll have to watch out, Rashmi, he's going to be coming after you for a TV show next. Larry: You betcha. Lucy: Well, Larry, I'm pretty sure all of our listeners know that Facebook, Twitter, blogging, are really part of social media and powerful communication tools, but I'll bet if they're like me they didn't stop to think so much about the fact that PowerPoint is also social media. People don't create PowerPoint presentations to share with themselves, and so they really do create them for communication, and really to reach out to others. So that's really why I'm very excited, being a heavy PowerPointer myself, to be interviewing Rashmi Sinha. She is the cofounder and CEO of SlideShare. It's, I believe, the word's largest community for sharing presentations. Rashmi, you'll have to tell us how many, but the stat I grabbed off the Web was 3,000 PowerPoints created per day? Larry: Per day! Wow. Lucy: Wow. So it's really a great way to get your slides out, and share, and reuse, and really form community around PowerPoint. Welcome, Rashmi! Rashmi Sinha: Thank you, thank you. Glad to be here and sharing a few stories. Lucy: One of the stories I thought we'd start with, before we get to our usual set of questions, is: what kinds of topics are you seeing these days put up on SlideShare? Rashmi: Anything, and everything. conversation, and debate is what this is about. Last year in November, we saw a lot of focus on the credit crisis. Recently we've seen a bunch of Obama presentations. Whatever is the current topic, that definitely shows up, and then there are more stable topics. We always have some things about the latest technologies or whatever people are excited about such as Telescope, or Ruby, or Python. You also have a different, more creative type of presentation, which are basically photographs with some music in the background. So there's a whole range of types of things that show up on SlideShare. Lucy: That's a great transition into our first question. You have a Ph.D. in cognitive neuropsychology. That is just so fascinating, and I know that you really did fall in love with the Web, and Web 2.0, and you really have looked at some of these issues around Web technologies from a perspective of human psychology. It would be very interesting to know how you see the cool technology today. What do you think is hot, especially in Web 2.0? Rashmi: I'm coming up from a little bit of a biased perspective, since I've spend the day kind of behind SlideShare, looking out at what people are doing. What I find really interesting is that so many of what are the more businessy, supposedly boring topics, are kind of the hot topics of conversation that people are participating in. It's not necessarily diluting the level of the conversation. For example, before SlideShare you couldn't really imagine people bonding over these very technical presentations. But you had this mission that people are interested in, and the Web really enables them to find each other, and to bond over these objects. Whether it's on Twitter, or it's on FaceBook, or it's on LinkedIn, or it's on peoples' own websites and broadcasts you really see this ability to have these topic-based conversations, which I find very interesting. I think one of the things that really strikes me is, what's happened with social networking is that the world is much more deeply linked than it used to be. Earlier it was all about just the hyperlinks, how you point to each other, and now you have all these social connections and all these different social spaces that they participate in. Overall I think that the interlinking of people and the web has become much more complex and much realistic in reflecting real world relationships in some way. I find that very interesting overall. Larry: Mm-hmm. Lucy Sanders: I think the idea of communities around PowerPoint presentations is fascinating. What kinds of communities do you see forming? What kind of topic areas seem to be the most popular? Rashmi: A lot of conversation around social media. I think all the social media junkies of the world come to SlideShare and put up presentations and find the other ones. So you see a lot of conversation about that. You see a lot of conversation about marketing, about the web itself, about technology, and about I would say pretty much any topic that people do their presentations around, you see communities forming. The interesting aspect about the community and was something that we had noticed time and again is that it doesn't happen only on SlideShare. It happens outside SlideShare often. It often happens on Twitter or on FaceBook, where people take back the objects and then bond over them. We have tried to embrace that in a natural and fluid manner and let the community formation be anywhere that people are. They can take these presentations, or documents which we also support, back with them. Larry: Wow, you're doing a wonderful job. Now one of the things, Rashmi, I'd like to ask you is, with your background, your education and everything else, why did you become an entrepreneur and what is it about being an entrepreneur that makes you tick? Rashmi: Well I never planned to be an entrepreneur, and it was entirely an accident, maybe a little bit of an accident stemming from what the thing that I wanted to do in life. But I did not, when I was doing my Ph.D., if anybody had asked me "are you going to be an entrepreneur?" I would not have thought that for a moment. I guess I just embrace whatever is in front of me and kind of go with it. And that just led to one thing after the other. So I'd like to share the story of how it happened. I did my Ph.D. and then I came UC Berkeley for a post doc. I was doing psychology, not at all interested in technology. As I said, the Bay Area water, there's something in the water here that gets you interested in technology. So I started just focusing more on technology, found the topics very interesting, and one day walked into the UC Berkeley School of Information which does a lot of human computer direction work, and just said, "I find these topics interesting. I'd like to work on them." And they said, "Great. Why don't you start?" So I switched topics within UC Berkeley, did that for a year, then decided I wanted to do consulting. So I changed to consulting, formed a company, we built our first product, that was MindCanvas. And I formed the company, by the way, with my husband who is a software engineer and who was getting done with his job that he was working in for Commerce One. So we formed the first company, we built our first product, and then he came up with the idea of SlideShare. We launched SlideShare in October 2006 and it just took off, and we kind of followed it. I'm definitely an accidental entrepreneur. Lucy: I like this notion of embracing what you see in front of you, and just moving with it and taking advantage. It's very opportunistic and I think we see that a lot in entrepreneurs. So along that path, I'm sure people influenced you. You had mentors, or maybe not. But we're really interested in understanding who influenced you. Rashmi: Lots of people along the way. So in academia, my teacher was very influential. In terms of the way he taught me to work rather than the specific things that we worked on, I've moved away from them. But the way he was efficient in his working, that really taught me a lot. At UC Berkeley I work with Marti Hearst and Hal Varian they were doing academic admissions and how the end is now economists at guru, and just kind of watching the way the talk about the Web. That's how I was really introduced to technology working with them. That has been very influential in the way I approach things in SlideShare. So, those are just some of the people who've influenced me, but there are lots and lots of people along the way who've helped me figure out things. Larry: Very interesting. Now, I really admire the progress you've made. Somewhere along the line since you've started your company, SlideShare, what was maybe the toughest thing that you had to do. Rashmi: The toughest thing was moving down at a product. I had to do that, it was called MindCanvas, it was a service platform. It was doing well, we were making money off it, it was a profitable business. But SlideShare had more promise, SlideShare had already touched the life of millions of people, and we realized that we could touch the life of millions more. So, we were definitely all in love with SlideShare, and we loved MindCanvas as well, but there was really a moment in time where we realized we could not do both. SlideShare especially was a very demanding application so we had to put all our energies into that. So I remember the day that we realized that we needed to make a decision, it was a very tough day. Lucy: That is tough, you really do get very close to products and companies, I mean they're parts of the family. I had to shut down a few things at Bell Labs and I hated it every time it happened. In fact, I think I just either saw in your Blog, or maybe it was a Tweet. That you had had to tell somebody once again what had happened to MindCanvas, and it is, it's very emotional. Rashmi: I have to do that pretty much every two or three days. We still get a lot of emails about it, and what we really need to do is say so on the Website that we are no longer offering this. But I think somehow or the other that it is hard to, kind of, make that. But we still get a lot of inquiries and we need to make that final. It's a very tough thing, actually. Lucy: Well, I think it is though. It is the flip side to the coin of having great passion and loving what you do as an entrepreneur, that sometimes in the life cycle you have to shut it down. So, if you were sitting here with a young person and telling them about entrepreneurship and giving them advice, what would you tell them? Rashmi: It said so very often but it really is true, is that: have the confidence that if you believe in something and if you think you can do it then you can do it. Maybe there are aspects of it you'll realize that your skills and personality are not suited, but there are other aspects that you will grow into. You know, when I decided to do technology I knew a little bit of computer science, I had taken a few courses but I was definitely not a very technical person. I kind of just went ahead, and forged ahead with it and have learned along the way and have picked things up. I have figured out what my strengths are. I would say that's a very important thing to decide what interests you because you can't do anything as well as the things that truly make you come alive. Larry: When you said, "if you think you can, you can" it reminds me of some things I've read in some books about, "working the mind". Is there any book in particular that has been important to you? Rashmi: I can't think of any particular book. I used to read a lot as a child, and it's kind of like a whole range of books. I always feel that about half my life was in my imagination in these books, and I read very fast. I read in this frenzied manner. So, it's more like I read a lot of books, rather then any particular books. But I will say there is something, one thing, that has been very influential to me as an entrepreneur is my mother. My mother has been a housewife and she hasn't had a career, but she made sure that her daughters would have a career, and in some ways, I have lived her ambitions. What she didn't get an opportunity to, maybe both my parents gave me that opportunity. That's been a very big influence on me. Larry: Kind of following up on that, then, what do you feel are the personal characteristics that make you an entrepreneur like you are, that'd given you that advantage? Rashmi: Well I think these entrepreneurs have to have this optimism, this ability to see the bright. To see that you can do it and what the next thing is. You always have to be able to imagine what's going to happen next and then to make it a reality. So the ability to imagine, to see the positive, and pull ahead and not really care. When we first went out and talked about SlideShare, and this was early on before we had barely a few million visitors, even at that point, I remember some VCs, et cetera, would be like, "how can you have so much traffic?" We just believed that presentation are used every day. There's millions of people sharing it, and we were going to build this site where they would all share it. So, we had this believe no matter how many people doubted us, we just kind of went on with it. That's one very important ability for entrepreneurs. But it's really hard. And there are days you seem really feel down and something has to carry you through that day. Lucy: Well if you'd come and talk to me, I would have told you that probably half of that traffic would have been me. I can give so many power point presentations that, I think it's a fabulous idea. Good for you for sticking with it. You mentioned that it is hard work and sometimes you're down, and you have to keep going, and look at the bright side. What other things besides thinking that way, what other things do you do to bring balance between your personal and professional life? Rashmi: That's the hardest part. We are still trying and it's hard to figure that out. I keep on making resolutions and breaking them. I keep on thinking, I'll go home at a certain point in time. But then I go home and start working again. One thing that we have been trying very hard, and, by the way, it also reflects the fact that my husband, John and I, are both of part of SlideShare. We are the cofounders. So it it's hard for us to leave SlideShare behind. I would say I lead an unbalanced life and I'm probably not the right person to give any advice about leading a balanced life. Larry: Rashmi, I really needed some of that advice because my wife, Pat and I, we work together. And we have this... you talked about our scenario. Rashmi: You can leave the place but you can't leave the, yeah. Lucy: And we've heard the answer before about being rather unbalanced. But we've also heard that sometimes you have years of unbalance and then years of some amount of balance. So it sort of integrates out over decades. So you've achieved a lot. And, I should mention to our listeners as well, that Rashmi was named one of the most influential women in Web 2.0 by "Fast Company." So congratulations for that... Rashmi: Thank you. Lucy: Awesome achievement. And so what's next for you? As SlideShare is up and going and making great progress. I am sure there is more work to do there, but have you looked down the road just a bit to see what you might want to do after SlideShare? Rashmi: Well, I mean, I want to make SlideShare a big independent company. And I'd like to do things along with SlideShare. One day I think I would like to write a book. And I'd like to get more involved in social entrepreneurship. Interesting companies that are doing something in that space. But that's definitely something I would love to do. But right now SlideShare is such a young company, it's just two and a half years old, and it's just starting. So there is a long way to go with that. Larry: Yes, actually just finished the final editing of my latest book. And it's really worth it. It took just about three years to write it and get it edited. So don't forget that, you keep it up. Lucy: It's very good. Well thank you very much, Rashmi. It's been great talking to you. I want to remind listeners that they can find these podcasts at ncwitt.org and w3w3.com and pass them along to your friends. Thank you Larry. Larry: Yeah thank you. And Rashmi, it was a pleasure. Rashmi: Thank you both you. This is a pleasure too. Lucy: Thank you, that's great. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Rashmi SinhaInterview Summary: "It was entirely an accident" that Rashmi Sinha became an entrepreneur, she says. After backing into technology and entrepreneurship, however, she advises that it's important to decide what interests you, and then follow your interests. Release Date: April 29, 2009Interview Subject: Rashmi SinhaInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 18:21

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Carol Realini CEO and Founder, Obopay Date: April 7, 2009 Carol Realini: Obopay [intro] Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO for the National Center for Women and Information Technology, or NCWIT, and this is one in a series of interviews with fantastic entrepreneurs, women who have started IT companies. With me is Larry Nelson, w3w3.com. Larry, how are you? Larry Nelson: Absolutely magnificent, kind of jittery a little bit. We just launched our Internet TV show, so things are going good. Lucy: And the name of the Internet TV show is... Larry: "Colorado Rising." Lucy: So everybody, be careful, he's after you for not just audio interviews now but live TV as well. Larry: You bet. Lucy: With us today we have Carol Realini. She's the founder and CEO of Obopay, and before that a very distinguished career in a number of high tech companies including Cordiant. Obopay is the first truly comprehensive mobile payment service in the United States, and it's really cool. You go on the website and you can basically send money to your kids. If you're kids, you can get money. I'm trying to figure out how to get my parents to do this for me even now. Larry: Yeah, I've got five kids. I appreciate that. Lucy: [laughs] And we're really happy to talk to Carol. Welcome, Carol. Carol Realini: Thank you. Happy to talk to you guys. Lucy: Oh, great. Why don't you tell us a bit about Obopay. It's a great company and it has a wonderful value proposition. Carol: Absolutely. First, I just want to say I assume you are all in Colorado today. And I'm a longtime San Francisco-born Californian, born and raised here. But I spent five years living outside of California and that was living in Colorado, and I love Colorado. Lucy: Well any time you want to come visit us. [laughter] Larry: That's a deal. Carol: Absolutely. Lucy: That's a deal. Carol: I love Colorado. So let me just give you a little background on myself, and then I'll talk about the founding of Obopay and what we do and a little bit about the company. I am a four-time entrepreneur, so this is my fourth company from the ground up. Lucy: Wow. Carol: First one, I wasn't the founder but I was a very early employee at Legato, which became a very large storage management software company which was bought by EMC. That company went public and then was bought. The next company, I was the founder of a consulting company that focused in the early '90s on helping people migrate to distributed computing. And this was when big companies around the world were trying to figure out how to leverage the client server and PC technology that was emerging. And then the next company was Cordiant Software, and I founded that and raised the venture capital for that company and was the CEO until just before the company went public. And it went public in 2000 and is still a public company. And then I retired from that and thought I wasn't ever going to work again. I'd had a fantastic career in technology, really started in the mid-'70s when it was really about mainframe. And I retired thinking I would never work again, and actually moved to Colorado and ended up getting involved in some nonprofits which were focused on fostering entrepreneurship in developing countries around the world. As a result of that, I was traveling in places I would have never normally traveled, places in rural Africa, rural Latin America, and was quite taken in 2002 with the number of mobile phones that I would see in very far away places where there was no electricity, no clean water. You would find that there was a growing number of people that had mobile phones. And this is the year 2002 when there was about a billion phones on the planet. And since my last three companies had really focused on financial service software primarily, and I had spent a lot of my time in the financial services industry building software from the biggest financial service companies in the world, I ended up starting to think about, well if there are mobile phones in all these places, maybe we could use those mobile phones to start delivering financial services to everybody with a mobile phone. It was a real simple idea, but it was exciting for me to think about the possibility that someday most people would have mobile phones, and those mobile phones could then bring convenience and access to banking like we've never seen before. So that idea got under my skin and by 2004, late 2004, early 2005, I funded some research where we went around the world and looked at some of the very early implementations of mobile payments and mobile banking. And once the research report was done, the way I think about it and this is the way it happened, when I started the research report, my career was behind me. When I finished the research report, my career was in front of me. Lucy: That's great. Larry: Yeah. Carol: Yeah. And I decided I just had to come back to work and use all my experience as an entrepreneur and technologist to build a company to deliver mobile payments and mobile banking to every mobile phone. So that was 2005, and I've worked almost every day since I made that decision. And I'm sitting in my office in Redwood City where I spend a lot of my time now. And the company is about 150 people now. And we are operating the service in the US and India, and we're in the planning stages to rolling it out in Africa and in Europe. And we get a call almost everyday from different parts of the world saying when can Obopay think about coming to this country or that country. Lucy: How did you choose the name for the company, Carol? Carol: The big idea is everybody with a mobile phone will get access to payment services and banking services through their mobile phone. And if you think about that, it's such a big idea because if you look at traditional banking, it serves let's say a billion and a half people on the planet, whereas already there are over four billion mobile phones. And so you can imagine that the people that have bank accounts and have mobile phones can benefit from it. But there are also a lot of people that don't get access to banking that will now have it because they have a mobile phone and there's a ways for these services to be offered to those people. In addition, people are still using a lot of cash, right, and sometimes checks. And my belief is that mobile payments and mobile banking will eliminate cash from use. And it's such a big idea if you think about it. About $7 trillion of transactions a year are done in cash still today. And I believe that in the future we won't be using cash, we'll be doing electronic transactions between mobile phones. For that reason, when we looked to name the company we said, wow do we relate to this big idea that someday this will replace cash? And we found that obol, O-B-O-L, is a greek coin that has been obsolete maybe a thousand years. And so we took an obsolete coin as a concept that we put in our company name. Lucy: That's fascinating, and the story of the company is interesting as well. And I would love to follow up with you because I think that the people here at the Atlas Institute at the University of Colorado - Boulder, they're starting an ITC4D program here. So they would probably be interested in having you speak. So that's really interesting. And you've been a technologist for a long time and our first question centers around that. How did you first get into technology? And as a technologist, what are the technologies you see as being especially interesting today? Carol: I first got into technology in the mid-'70s. I was a mathematician and I was teaching math at a local university, and found the computer science department and decided in my spare time to get a computer science advanced degree. It was a natural transition for me. I was doing math because I was good at it and I loved it but it wasn't my passion. But once I got involved in computers I got very passionate about computers and specifically software. So that's how I got into technology. And you know in the mid-'70s, Silicon Valley was a very small community, so a lot of my professors worked at IBM or Hewlett Packard. Once I started taking classes from these folks it was just very easy to understand what was going on in the industry and I very quickly opted in. And matter of fact, I ended up leaving my teaching position and starting work six months before I finished my degree. Larry: Oh, good. Well you've had a chance to work for others and the nonprofit experience you had, why are you an entrepreneur and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick? Carol: I started my career as a typical software engineer and ended up starting to get into management. And I was quite successful in management positions. Something happened to me about six years into my career. I thought when I was working for this big company that my aspiration was to be an executive at a company like that, but I got involved in a project almost by accident. It was an entrepreneurial project within a big company, and it changed me. The company I worked for, which was a hardware company - it's called Amdol - decided they wanted to do a commercial product based on UNIX. Because UNIX was just an internal AT&T Bell Labs technology, and I negotiated the first commercial license for UNIX. And we ended up building the operating system and then providing it as a high-end version of UNIX out into the marketplace. And this all happened very quickly, it was very entrepreneurial, they were a handful of people in a big company and we built a whole business around this new operating system that we built. It was amazing. People would tell us "You'll never get this done," that nobody would ever buy it. And so I got involved in that and I saw about 15 people. We moved a mountain just by saying we we're going to do this. And I had that experience and I said, wow, I really love doing this and I'm good at it. I got a taste of it from that and then, once the project got mature and was mainstreamed, I decided that I couldn't go back into the mainstream, I had to go be an entrepreneur. I left and then I went to work at a company that was just about to go public, which was a database company - I think of that as my transition job. And then I got a phone call about 18 months after that, where somebody asked me to do a company from the ground. So that's how I got into it. I think that I had it in my blood, in my desire. I'm not sure if I would have been an entrepreneur if I hadn't had the early experience of how powerful it is. Also, I managed my career even before I left this big company, I had experience in marketing and sales. When you're an entrepreneur, you have to wear a lot of hats. You especially have to wear a sales hat. You have to go out and get the initial customers, you have to go out and get the initial founders or employees to work with you, you have to get the original investors. That is a sales job. And so somehow I've been able to over the years be quite successful at evangelizing new ideas and bringing on employees and customers and venture capital. And that's been something that I'm just good at and I love to do. Lucy: Well you know those are all UNIX projects. I'm from Bell Labs and we were probably one of your Amdol customers. [laughs] Those were fun times for sure, and it does sound like you have entrepreneurship in your blood. In terms of who influenced you, can you look back - you had an experience that influenced you at Amdol, and another experience at the database company - were there particular people or mentors along the way that influenced you? Carol: Yeah, I think there were. I was aware of what some other people were doing, so I think I was inspired by some of these early entrepreneurs. Famous ones, like Bill Gates and Judy Estrin. Or fhe less famous ones, just people I knew in Silicon Valley - I was inspired by those people. So I think, one thing that happened to me when I ended up becoming an entrepreneur -- if you had met me before I took my first CEO job, you would have said "Well, this woman..." Lone Ranger, I used to call myself. I would take on projects and I would do them, and I would have people working for me, but I didn't need any help. That was my attitude. When I started my first company that was venture-backed, for some reason I decided that I needed to change my style. I said, you know, I need help, because I've never done this before. And raising venture capital seems really hard, building a company from the ground up. I've kind of been involved in it in kind of different ways, but this seemed a really big task. So I decided to change my style and ask for help. I'd been around for a long time so I knew a lot of people, but I had actually never asked anyone for help, never in my entire career. And so when I wrote my first business plan for Cordiant, which is where I first raised venture capital, I sent the business plan to 50 people I knew, who had either raised venture capital or would know how to do it. And what was so interesting about that is that I've never asked for help before, and people were so honored that I had reached out to them for help, I got this wave of help from all these really great CEOs or venture capitalists. And that was the reason I'm here today. It was actually because I figured out that it wasn't just about me doing something. Being an entrepreneur and having a big idea, you need a lot of help. So when I reached out to these people, a lot of those folks became mentors to me and became advisers to me. And I remember, when I was raising my first round of funding, I said, look, if I'm successful at this -- and I thought this is the hardest thing I've ever done, If I'm successful, I'm going to help other people do this. You know, over the years, I've turned around and done the same thing for other folks and helped other people who were trying to raise venture capital or start companies. And something I really like to do is give back, because it was so important to me to have those experienced people help me. Larry: Wow. Carol, you know you have a number of happy, successful stories, but I'd like to ask another kind of question. If you were to pick the one, single time - I'm sure you had challenges along the way - but one, single toughest decision that you had to make in your career. Carol: Business decisions? Larry: Yeah, business-related. Carol: I'll tell you, there's a lot of tough decisions you make every day. I mean, when you're an entrepreneur, it's important to figure out what you can't do, or what you shouldn't do right now. I think one thing is, at big companies you might have the luxury to do most of the things you think are the right things to do. But in a small company, an emerging company, a new company, you have to choose every day what is it I have to do now, and what is it I can afford to do right now? And you have to make that decision every day, and people come to you and they lobby, or customers come to you. And you just have to be good at prioritizing and saying no. And that is a tough decision, but I can't point out one time I said no. It's just that every day, you have to learn to say no. Larry: OK. Carol: Hire this person, go after this opportunity. So that's sort of the tougher part, the tough decisions I make. Probably some of the more challenging business decisions were really around timing of expansion. Larry: Ah. Carol: So if you think about it, Cordiant wouldn't be where it is today if it hadn't made a decision to, very early on in the company's evolution, to expand into Europe. So they made a decision while they were in the US market for six months, they decided to go to Europe. And that was a tough decision to make because it was an expensive decision. But it turned out to be a very good decision. Hard to execute on, but a really important strategic move. Obopay has made that same decision. From the beginning, we decided that, to accomplish what we wanted to accomplish, which is deliver financial services to every mobile phone, we had to be willing to build a service that could work in places like the US, as well as India. And the only way to really know that is to build it from the beginning with that in mind, and then go to those markets and prove that it worked in both markets. That was a very tough decision to make because it's a very expensive decision, and it requires the ability to execute on two different markets. Lucy: You've given us a lot of pointers that would be helpful to people who are considering being entrepreneurs. For example, you said it became important to you to ask for help. I think you said, "Get to like sales," you know, and, "Learn how to prioritize and learn to say no." And I think the story about expansion into Europe is an indicator as well of taking educated risks and getting out there and really growing the company. What other advice would you give a young person who's considering being an entrepreneur? Carol: I think you can't learn to be an entrepreneur in a classroom. So I think you have to be willing to take jobs that help you build skills and experience so that you're able to be an entrepreneur and be good at it. You know, some people come out of school, like I was reading about the founder of Facebook, I mean, phenomenal story. He's 24 years old and he founded Facebook. I mean, that's incredible, but a lot of entrepreneurs don't get there that way. They end up having jobs that give them good skills and experience that prepare them to be an entrepreneur. So unless you're like the Facebook founder, I suggest you think about, "OK. What's the next job I could take in the company I'm at or in a different company that will help me get skills and experience I need to be an entrepreneur." So for example, let's say you're not good at strategic stuff, which is like what you need to be good at to raise venture capital, what you need to be good at to go out and get your first set of business partners in your business. If that's true and you're not good at it, you should get a job in an opportunity where you figure out how to be good at that, where you're tested, where you're trained, where you have to do it, because that's going to help you build the competency that you need and better prepare you to be an entrepreneur. I want to say one other thing about that. I knew in my heart I wanted to be an entrepreneur, and I remember one time I tried to get a sales job at a company. I won't mention which company, but I tried to get a job being a sales person, because I kind of knew I needed to be better at this. And I remember the person I went to who liked me a lot, said, "Oh, well, you're a girl. Nobody's going to buy a million dollar product from you." [laughter] Lucy: I'm sorry. Larry: Yeah. Carol: But, you know, at the time that was their point of view. But I remember thinking, "You know what, that is not going to stop me. That's this person." Lucy: Absolutely. Carol: And, you know, it may have been conventional wisdom that a girl couldn't do this job, but it didn't faze me at all, and I said, "Oh, OK. That's your opinion. I better go find my sales opportunity someplace else." And I think you have to have that in your DNA to be an entrepreneur. You have to be the kind of person that has the kind of vision and direction and drive that when some obstacle gets in front of you, it's not that it's not real, but you figure out how to manage beyond that obstacle. Lucy: Absolutely, being relentless. Larry: Relentless. Lucy: We've heard that a lot, relentless, persistent. Carol: Yeah. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: Yeah, resourceful. Carol: The other thing I was going to say about building the expertise to be an entrepreneur, I have two other things to say about that. You can never be everything. You can't be all things to all people. There's some things that maybe the perfect entrepreneur would do that I'm not good at. So you also need to understand where your limitations are and surround yourself with a team that collectively has the skills to pull off the business. So you're not going to ever be all things to all people. There are some things you have to be able to do, like raise venture capital, but there are some other things your team may be able to do for you, and you don't have to do it yourself. The other thing that I would say, and one thing I like to say to the people who want to be entrepreneurs and go out and raise money, especially raising money. I said, "If you think about being entrepreneurs, don't think about success being raising money." Because let's imagine you're going to be successful raising money. Success is when you get the money and you've got the company, that you're successful with the company. You have to think less about sort of the, "Oh, I can get a VC to fund me," and more, "I can get the capital I need to build the company I need to build, " and it's a different mindset. And you have to have the mindset of, I not only have to be able to raise the venture capital, I have to be the kind of leader that once I have it I can build the company. So you kind of raise the bar for yourself and what you think you have to be able to do to build the company. You have to raise capital, and you have to make that capital turn it into a successful business. Larry: Carol, with all the things that you're doing and you're at the office right now, how do you bring balance to your life, both personally and professionally? Carol: I don't think I have a balanced life. [laughter] Lucy: Yeah, we're heard that before too. Yeah. Carol: But I don't know, you know, I think about that I have three children, and I love them and they're all successful. They're grown. They're in their twenties. I love them. I don't see them as much as I want to, don't spend as much time with them as I would like. I have a husband who I've been married to for almost 30 years. I love the outdoors. I'm very athletic. But the fact is when I'm doing this I would say that I don't have the kind of balance that would be the perfect balance, and I just accept that. That's the job. The job is to have a little bit of struggle with balance, because the job is going to be really, really demanding, and I've accepted that. I had five years off, six years off where I was able to spend as much time as I wanted with my kids and my husband. And I biked and hiked and skied 60 days a year. That was fabulous too, but, you know, there's nothing like building a company from the ground up. Lucy: And that's the case, and we've heard that from some of our other interviewees as well, that it's more of an integrative thing. You know, that you have all these interests and you integrate them, but it's not like every day is balanced. Larry: Right. Lucy: That's really interesting. So, Carol, you've done so much. You're a global visionary. You give back. I wanted to mention to listeners as well that Carol was on the board at the Anita Borg Institute, which is one of the co-founding organizations of NCWIT, really focused on women and innovation and computing. And you mentioned earlier that it's important for you to give back. So across the board you've done some pretty phenomenal things. What's next for you? Carol: No, I am very passionate about entrepreneurship, so wherever possible I support entrepreneurs, either through my own time or through donating to organizations that support entrepreneurs. I'm passionate about education. There are places in the world where children don't get access to free education, places like Uganda or a lot of places I go in the world. And so my husband and I both donate a lot to programs that get the kids that are left out of the education system access to education. So we do that and that's something we do on an ongoing basis. You know, I'm kind of doing Obopay full-time. It's interesting. I was on boards when I started Obopay, and I got off all of them. And I did that because I just felt like for an early stage company I didn't have the luxury of having time to be a good board member for them, but I think for the next couple years, I'm pretty much full-time doing this. But I don't have a lot of bandwidth to do other things right now. When this period is over for me, I don't know what's next for me and I'm not worried about it, because I love so many things. I have so many hobbies, so many interests, I'm not worried about what comes next. I'm not a worrier anyway. I'm just dedicated to doing this now, and I know when I'm doing this that they'll be something else great for me to do. Larry: Well, I couldn't agree more, yeah. Carol: Oh, that's another word for entrepreneurship, fearless. Larry: There we go. Carol: There you go. Larry: Well, Carol, I want to thank you for joining us today. Carol: Oh, you're welcome. Larry: And we'll put your link up in the website. That's Obopay.com, but we'll put it up on NCWIT's website. That's ncwit.org, and also at w3w3.com. And by the way, I want to say this to the listeners. Pass this interview along to others that you know would learn from it and would enjoy an interview on this kind of a topic. Thank you much, Carol. Lucy: Thanks, Carol. Carol: Thanks, bye. Lucy: All right. Thanks everybody. [music] Transcription by CastingWords Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Carol RealiniInterview Summary: Carol Realini is an imaginative pioneer whose foresight and business acumen have changed the landscape of technology, and whose global vision is providing hope and a future for people in developing countries. Release Date: April 7, 2009Interview Subject: Carol RealiniInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 24:49

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: Lucy Sanders: Hi everybody. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO for National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. And this is one series of interviews we are doing with women who have started with IT companies and with me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi. Am I happy to be here. Lucy: Tell us more about w3w3. Larry: W3w3, we've been doing this for ten years. Radio shows, we have been doing a wonderful series here with Lucy here at NCWIT. We audio archives. We are all business. We tend to have focuses and this particularly one obviously is women entrepreneur which is fabulous. Lucy: Well, thank you Larry. We are happy that you are hosting our interviews. Today, we are going to interview a pioneer in blogging and very excited to have Mena Trott with us. She's the cofounder and president of Six Apart and she is responsible for such products as movable type and type pad. Welcome Mena. Mena Trott: Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me. Lucy: It's really exciting to interview you. As everybody listening knows, the blogging in the world is huge and only getting bigger and more important. So why don't you tell us a bit about Six Apart and we're also curious to know where the name came from. Mena: OK, Let me preface] this thing. I'm overextended personally because I have a daughter in October 2007 and so I don't do that many interviews anymore and so I'm rusty please forgive me. Six Apart is the company behind the name of our products we founded it in July 2002 officially even though it came out in 2001. And the name, really comes from the fact that my husband and I who was my co-founder, our birthdays are six days apart. It was supposed to be a name that we didn't think most people would ever ask why it was called that. But as the company's became so popular we have to explain it quite a bit. But it's pretty silly. Lucy. Well, I think it is a great name. Congratulations on the new baby, by the way. Mena: Thank you. Yeah, she's 18 months old. She's not really new but I'm enjoying my son at home. I choose to not go back to work immediately. I wanted to really embrace the baby for years. Lucy: Well, 18 months seems to Larry and I quite young. We have children out of the house. Larry: I have grandchildren. Lucy: OK. No, I think that's just fabulous. Congratulations on that. Mena: And I'm sure how fast he grows. Lucy: It does grow very, very quickly. Six Apart is a great company. The blogging craze is a wonderfully progressive space. Tell us a few things about how you first got into technology and where you see blogging going today. Mena: OK. We really became interested in the web and it was the web when we were in college, really late years of high school through college. We both graduated in 1999 and so we had experienced to see, observe what was going on. We played around and create our own personal pages. I started to blog in April of 2001 so, right around this time, nine years ago or eight years ago. My love of technology has been very connected to my love of social communication and the way we were interacting in the web. In the early days, we were involved, we were very involved in message boards, and news board, in all boards sort of thing that were the precursors of what we are using now. So my interest in the technology seems like the board interacting. Blogging was the next behavior based on what people were doing. It was more about thinking and blogging on line but also have ownership of the blog that you are creating. That was very different from what we were doing in the message boards where we may have thoughts that you would have posted now on your blog but were all mixed together. It was something definitely I knew on the site . This is your voice and the people visiting it will get for example I have a background in design so I did the designing in all of the products and then have the background in computer engineering and that was our first sort of foray into workers at smaller company and that's where got our background. Larry: Well, that was quite an interesting lead but I have five children. Also, our blog was w3w3.blogs.com, I bet you are familiar with that one. All right, so how do you take the sleep and what is it about being an entrepreneur that got you in there and what makes you tick today? Mena: The Interesting thing about when we started. We started this all around late 2001 right around after September 11 so it's not worth it. I was only trying to get insights of people but it was so the end of the boom. It was times very similar to know. It was less opportunity even thought the economy was not bad in all sectors, it was more the technology. And so Lee and I we were so confident because a lot of companies at that time were closed. We had some money saved in the bank and said hey, "let's do this for a couple of months focusing on that and see where it goes." I think the economy went with it because nobody in our peer had jobs, let me just clarify that. So it wasn't as much as a risk as maybe doing it at the height of the boom. So we thought we could do it because we were able to. We had such low cost in terms of company. We paid for rent in our apartment and we paid or basic for us and shelter and all those things. We didn't have employee, we didn't have cost, we were using software that was downloadable, so we didn't do anything like hook or services or selling the product that was actually, something you could hold. So the costs of getting into this were incredibly low and it just seem crazy to to give it a try. Lucy: I think that's a valuable lesson for the economy that we have today. Larry: You bet, we'll highlight that. Lucy: It's the truth when things cant go much worse, take a risk. Mena: Oh, yeah and I think we've seen up and down during the years. During the second bubble when you see all these Web 2.0 companies coming out. It was all about making something big and glorious and not worrying about where blogging's coming from which is very similar to the bubbles that we experienced in those early years pre-1999 and post... 1997-1998. And it is a really augment to get that I'm going to create something and not worry about where the money comes from. We are just going to get funding, over and over if we do and I don't think that it's ever healthy and I don't think that how our company is being made. We've always wanted to have business models and do something that could be sustained. That's, I think, why we're able to be successful even in these hard times. It's not nice right now. I don't like seeing companies suffer, but it's also good to see people realizing that we do have to be sustained. We should be able to sustain our company. Everyone should be able to enter the space, but, at the same time, they should be more responsible than perhaps they have in the past. Lucy: Well, that's a great observation. It's easy to see why you're a successful entrepreneur. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: Along the way, I'm sure you must have had mentors, or people who have influenced you, in issues concerning entrepreneurship. Tell us a bit about them. Mena: Yeah, I think it goes back to what I just said. The examples that we had were people who created sustainable, long lasting, businesses. Not necessarily things that were just flashy. It's hard to think of names off the top of my head, but I think we almost could look back to people that we have known that have had brick and mortar stores or people that have had clear businesses. You look at something like Amazon where it was very clear where his money was coming from, what kind of business it was. Maybe that's less true now, but at the time, it was very straightforward. People that were passionate about their businesses. That was always our sort of mentor. Or at least the people that inspired us. It was those people that you could tell loved what they were doing and were doing it because they felt their product or their service really filled a need. And really that's who we looked up to. Names, I'm drawing a blank, but you get the idea of the mentality behind that sort of person. Larry: Mm-hmm. Lucy: Absolutely. Larry: Boy, I'll say. With all the successes and the real neat things that you've done and accomplished individually, and with your team, with your husband of course, what is the toughest thing you ever had to do in your career? Mena: The toughest? Larry: Yeah. Mena: I think the toughest, probably, there were a couple things. The first clear example would be taking our first round of funding, which we took from a small Japanese investor. To make leap from saying we are just going to be these two people who are going to do this product because of love and if we can make some money, that's good. If we don't make some money, it's OK. We can get jobs. Since then, saying not only does our company need to succeed for our benefit, but we need to make other people money. And we just can't quit, if we're tired. So the toughest thing has always been really jumping into that next step. You can only imagine, your return for a company, it's vastly different from when it's just an LLC between a husband and a wife and a corporation with outside investors. So doing that, you have to say, "I'm going to be serious about this. I'm going to make this succeed and we're in it for the long haul." Our company is almost nine years old or eight years old. That's a really long time to be in something. I think we realized it the morning we released Movable Type for the very first time that we were going to stick it out. That's a huge investment of your life. We were fairly young. I guess we were about 23 when we first started Movable Type and Six Apart and to say this is something that we are going to be doing for the next 10 years? I think we were probably, "Woo hoo." If we knew that, we would have been a little more trepidations. Every step after that you know that you are going to be in it for the long haul and that's always tough. Taking that first round of funding. Hiring our first employee. All of the sort of things that we had to do to get to the next level. Lucy: Those were interesting observations and they would form great advice for anybody who wants to be an entrepreneur. So what I've written down so far would be, "Know your business model. Be passionate. Be in it for the long haul. Look up to companies that have sustainable approaches." What other advice would you give, particularly to young people, who want to be entrepreneurs? Mena: I think a good piece of advice is always to be open to other people's ideas. It's something that has definitely come with age for us. That you think you know more things when you're younger than definitely when your older, even if you know more things when you're older. Even though we're still relatively young, you do have to be able to see that experience is one of the great things that people can give you, as advice, as well as participating. Now, it's an interesting time for me, because I'm not involved in the day to day. Ben, my husband, is at work for me, but he's also young. He's doing his job as CEO and he still puts in long start-up hours. I'm at home with our daughter, not necessarily trying to be involved through my husband, but being involved through other people. Because I want to separate the husband, wife, co-founder relationship. It's a big step for me to be at home instead of at work, because I have always been the sort of person that needs to be involved and to be making the decisions or be very instrumental in the decisions. So, stepping away and saying, "I trust these people, " having my husband there makes it easier. You have to trust the people who are in place and our CEO, Chris Alden. I trust him and I trust our VPs and our corporate development person, and all these sorts of people, as well as the day to day employees who create the product. I think an entrepreneur has to be able to say "I have these ideas. There's something about me that makes me special." To be able to create a company and to run a company, but, at the same time, if you're not willing to trust people and put people in place who you think are talented and are exceptional, then I don't think you're going to get as far as you possibly can. You see a lot of times when founders refuse to, not just step down but, just step back. It's not really an issue of not being CEO anymore, it's the issue of just being a team player. That's a problem that I think we see and that's one I think we've been able to comes to terms with as not being an issue. Lucy: And experience does teach you that. It is related to being able receive feedback, in some ways. Larry: Mm-hmm. Lucy: I think, over the years, I've come to learn, perhaps the hard way, that feedback is actually a gift. It's nothing to fight. It's something to embrace. Mena: Yeah. A big thing is also, I think, being able to share your victories. It's something that I think has come with age with me too, and being comfortable in my own skin is that you want your entire team to succeed. You don't have to be the individual player who succeeds. You'll see that the healthier the company, the more people are out there being lauded, applauded for what they're doing. Lucy: I want to return to a theme we've had in this interview so far, and that's the balance of personal and work pursuits. Interestingly enough, this morning I had to answer a question for an Ask a BC blog about being a woman and a mother and an entrepreneur. I might want to rephrase this question. We normally ask it slightly differently. What is it like to integrate being at home with your daughter and also having career pursuits? You mentioned that you're going to stay home a while. And you're really experimenting with integrating personal and business lives. I'm curious how you do that and what you see ahead. Mena: Yeah, it's a very difficult thing. It's hard because we don't want to say that it's impossible for a woman to have a career and a family. Or at least it's impossible for a woman to have a career and be the child-rearer, at least at home during the day. But it really is quite hard. You're going to cause one thing to suffer on either side. If you're putting in the hours that you feel as an entrepreneur are necessary for your company, your child isn't going to have the attention from you personally that you may want. And at the other side, if you're giving your child your hours the company's not going to get it. That's very clear. Personally, I've made the decision to be at home because of the things that I said, that babyhood and childhood go so quickly, that I should be here for her. I've thought about, do I want to take a day off of being a stay at home mom and get a nanny to watch her, and it's something that I think, as she gets older I can see doing a day a week. But with my personality, and I think it's why the company Six Apart got to where it is, is I like throwing myself into something completely. I can't just half and half it. The mentality for me has to be, what am I doing? This is my full time commitment. That said, I'm even able to do any simple work right now, because what we do is so decentralized. It's about the Internet. It's about the web. I can do a conversation with you right now while talking through Skype, rather than have to meet in person because we live in an amazing time. I think because of that, being a stay at home mom, I'm at home 24 hours a day with my daughter, but I still feel very connected to people at work. I feel connected because we have an intranet that I'm able to access. I feel connected because I read people's blogs, because I can see the news. I feel like I know what's going on. I'm lucky because of the industry I'm in. If someone's in a different position, say a lawyer who decides to stay at home, she's not going to have, necessarily, that connection. She's not going to be able to see her work happen just on the web. I've been very fortunate. I think people in my space probably have more opportunities than in more traditional jobs. But like I said, I feel like I have to put myself into something fully. I am now starting, actually starting this week, trying to do some work in Penelope's down time. Ben puts her to sleep at night, so then I can do some stuff at night. But at the same time, it's not startup hours for me. Larry: Mena, that really sounds like a fascinating plan that is about to unravel. Lucy: The very important points here...Sometimes when people think about work and personal balance they think it has to be 50/50 all day, every day, forever. Whereas, I think Mena's getting to a point where maybe for these two years I'm doing this. And then I may mix it up differently the next year, or I might mix it up in some other way as we go down the path here. Mena: It's like a startup or a company you begin. You don't know what's going to be going on in the next couple months. So you always have to be able to adapt to the new situation. Lucy: So being an entrepreneur teaches you how to be a mom! Larry: There we go! Lucy: If anything could teach you to be a mom, right? Mena: It is very similar. Larry: I just want you to know, Mena, that things do change. My wife and I, we've been in business together for 37 years and we've got five kids. We've done it. Lucy: It's really been wonderful talking to you and I just wanted to ask you if you had any other observation about entrepreneurship or Six Apart that you wanted to share with out listeners. Mina: There are so many things to say. I think for people listening, especially women, the advice is, it's going to be hard. It's going to be something that isn't all glorious. You put in hours and it's very emotional. Like we just said, the same things could be said about motherhood or about parenting. But the rewards, even if you're not wildly successful, the rewards are that you learn, and that you're able to grow and you're able to do what you do better the next time. And I think that Six Apart is doing really well. I'm amazed. I never thought, nine years ago, that I'd be able to just take off to have my child and it would be a company still. We were so much tied to it. Part of learning to be able to say this is my baby. I can just use that metaphor both ways. This is my baby. Plus the baby learns and the baby's going to grow. To be able to accept that and to understand that you're able to do something after that. It may be bigger and better. Larry: Well, Mina I want to thank you for joining us today. Mina: Thank you! Larry: There's some super, super advice here. Mina: I'm very glad to be able to get back into the swing of things. Larry: Well, see Lucy. We helped her to get back into that swing, at least into the start of the swing. Lucy: We'll help you any time, Mina! Larry: You betcha! And so all of our listeners out there know, you can download this as a podcast 24/7 at w3w3.com and ncwit.org. Is that correct? Lucy: That's correct! Larry: You bet. Pass this interview along to others that you feel would really be interested in hearing it because they can listen to it 24/7 also. Lucy Sanders, it's always great joining you. Thank you much. Lucy: Thank you Larry, and thank you Mina. Mina: Thank you. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Mena TrottInterview Summary: When Mena and Ben Trott started Six Apart in 2001, starting an Internet-based business in a stagnant, post-9/11, post-Internet-bubble economy seemed like a big gamble. But their success can be credited to some fundamental entrepreneurial tenets: Know your business model. Be passionate. Aspire to sustainability. Be open to new ideas. Release Date: March 1, 2009Interview Subject: Mena TrottInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 22:03

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Jessica Jackley Co-Founder, kiva.org Date: September 29, 2008 Jessica Jackley: Kiva Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO for the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. This is one in a continuing series of interviews that we are doing with women who have started either IT companies or organizations that are based on information technology. We are very excited that we have Jessica Flannery here today from Kiva to talk to us. Also with me is Larry Nelson, from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: It's really a pleasure to be here and I must say we are getting tremendous feedback from not only adults who are having their children listen to some of these interviews, but some of the employers that are looking for more women and more technical people to get into the business which is sometimes a very good step to becoming an entrepreneur. Lucy: Also with me today is Lee Kennedy who is a Director of NCWIT and a serial entrepreneur herself. Right now, her current company is called Tricalix. Hi Lee. How are you? Lee Kennedy: Hi Lucy. Hi Larry. It is so good to be here. Larry: It is. We are the three L's, right? Lucy, Lee and Larry or something. Lucy: Or something. Welcome Jessica. We are very happy to have you with us today and the topic that we are going to talk about, I mean, you're fabulous social entrepreneur, and I think that this whole area of micro-finance and what Kiva is doing is just fascinating. And as part of this interview, we all went and spent time on the Kiva site and just really got lost in all the wonderful stories that are our there. So welcome. Jessica Flannery: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. Lucy: Well, for our listeners, I'm sure everybody knows but it bears repeating that Kiva is the first peer to peer micro loan website. It really demonstrates how the Internet can be used to facilitate these meaningful types of connections between people who want to lend money and entrepreneurs all over the world especially in developing countries, how we can all help each other really move the economies ahead. It's a really fascinating website. So Jessica, why don't you just spend a minute and tell us a bit about Kiva. Jessica: Sure. You said it very, very well and very concisely. We are the world's first person to person micro lending website so anybody in the world can go onto the site, browse business profiles and entrepreneur profiles really I should say. Whether that person is a farmer or selling small goods in their village or a seamstress or a restaurant owner, there are all different kinds of small business. And you can lend as little as $25 to that entrepreneur and over time you get updates on that business and then you get paid back. Larry: Wow! Lucy: Well, and Kiva is a fairly young organization. I read someplace that you started a bit of a hobby website and it just exploded. Jessica: Yeah. It's been a very, very busy last four years. Four years ago, I learned about micro-finance and decided that's what I want to do. I quit another job and I went to East Africa for a few months to see it up close and personal. While I was there it was impossible not to be deeply moved by the stories of success of people that I was meeting. People who had used often just a $100 to change their lives and lifted their families out of poverty. So, I became really excited about these stories and wanted to share them with my own friends and family. And as I did that, my husband Matt and I kept asking not just "Oh, this is great. Micro-finance works, but wow, how do we, and our friends and family, how do we enable people to lend money directly to these individuals we're meeting?" So, it started out with a very specific way, very specific context with individuals who we had met face to face in Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda who we wanted to help. We wanted to participate in their amazing stories, and we wanted to see them get to the next level. So what we did was basically Matt came to visit me during his time in East Africa, and then he went back home, built our website. We emailed our friends and family and said "Hey, we have seven businesses in Uganda that we'd like to lend a total of $3,000 to. Do you want to pitch in?" Then overnight that money came in and we sent that along to Uganda. We had a six month kind of beta round with these seven entrepreneurs in Uganda. After the six months they had repaid, we took the word beta off of our website and that launched us. And that was just in October of '05, so not even quite three years ago. Our first year was $500,000 a month, the second year was $13.5 million more, and today we're just around $45 million, and we haven't even finished our third year. So it's grown very rapidly. Lucy: And you have an incredible payback on the loans, incredible payback percent. Jessica: Yeah, it's in a high 90 percentage. That's representative of a micro finance alone, not just our site. Lucy: But wow, that's just and incredible history and such a good cause as well. One of the things that I noticed there was a Soft-tech video on YouTube that I watched that I thought was very interesting. Where you mentioned that you all created the tool that Kiva uses really to match lenders and entrepreneurs without really knowing how the world would use it to your previous story. This gets us to our first question which is around technology, and I thought you would have a really interesting spin on this. You know, how in general do you see technology helping missions like those of Kiva? Slightly different than potentially a four-profit business but you have incredibly interesting uses of technology. So what do you see in the future? Jessica: Kiva does a lot of different things, but our mission is to connect people through lending to alleviate poverty. The real key there is to connect people. The money transfer is very interesting, and technology obviously helps that happened, but what really we care about is this connectivity. Loans happen to be a great tool for poverty alleviation as well as connectivity. I mean, if you lend me something and I have it and I'm fully giving it back to you, you're going to pay a little bit more attention usually, than if you just donate something and I tell you how that's going forever and ever. That back and forth communication is obviously free or a lot less expensive. It's quick. It's real time. You can see on the other side of the planet how this person is waiting right now today for that $200 that's going to allow them to start their business. So there are all these elements, but then technology makes it faster, more efficient, less expensive and just overall easier to have that human connection happen. Very specifically while I said the money is not the point, it's a great tool for a lot of things. For example, we've had a lot of help from great technology leaders out there that we've been able to leverage. So PayPal, we're the first non-profit to have PayPal generously agree to provide free payment transactions. So we have literally zero variable costs for sending these little bits of money back and forth all around the planet every day. Lucy: Well, one thing too, I'm a technologist so I'll get off this question in just a minute. I know Larry and Lee are looking at me like "Let's move off the technology." But I do have one more thing to observe here, because this is a different kind of interview than we've done. There is a whole growing area called ICT for D which is Information and Communication Technology for Developing World and one of the things that I have read that you either have done or will do is you make an offline browser so that people can conserve power on their computer, sort of a low energy kind of browser so they don't have to be always plugged in. That's an example of the type of technology around ICT for D that you have to start thinking about the climates and the situation and the resources that people have all around the world. Jessica: It's been very, very interesting for us to see, even how sometimes we'll have really wonderful generous lenders say, "Hey, I also want to donate financially or otherwise." And let's say they send a great batch of brand new video cameras for us to send out to the field. Well, sometimes actually a lower tech solution is better, because of the technology that's available in the field. So maybe we don't need the highest quality photos, the highest res photos, maybe a lower tech solution is better. That's been interesting to watch, just figuring out really what's the best and what's the most appropriate tools to get the job done. Lee: That's exactly right. Lucy: So, we normally ask what it is that you love about being an entrepreneur, but since you're working with entrepreneurs it would be great to hear about the stories from the entrepreneurs out of Kiva, as well as what it is that love about this whole environment and the entrepreneurship. Jessica: OK. This is a really good question. What I found is the idea of being an entrepreneur, I think that's really attractive to a lot of people. I think there are some, I don't want to put value judgments on it, good or bad, better or worse, but I think sometimes it has to do with freedom or this idea of being your own boss, or something like that. For me, my introduction to business and my entrepreneurship at all was in Africa seeing people who were gold hunters, or subsistence farmers, or fishermen, or people who were basically entrepreneurship to them was doing what they needed to do every day to survive. It was definitely not an option. They had to do the next thing, figure out the next step to get closer and closer to their goal to find food, and they could survive that day. It was very hand-to-mouth sort of entrepreneurship. It wasn't what we usually think of in Silicon Valley as entrepreneurship being super innovated perhaps or anything like that, but in context it was as innovative as anything else in Silicon Valley would have been, and as much entrepreneurship as anything else that you would see in other places of the world. For me, it's funny. I guess yet that it's true, when you look back at what we've done in Kiva the last four years, great! We have been social entrepreneurs, but we didn't go out thinking, I definitely thought over the years, over the last few years, "Oh, social entrepreneurship. How great! I want to do something like that." Then what happened is you have to get specific. You have to start with something specific. So, we started to do Kiva, a very, very specific mission of Kiva, and then retroactively we're like, "Oh, yeah. I guess that's what we're doing. It's pretty entrepreneurial, isn't it?" It came down to, "We have this mission, and we're going to do whatever we need to do everyday to make it happen. We're going to be scrappy if we need to. We're going to iterate. We're going to put things out there that maybe aren't even perfect. We're going to keep moving, and everyday say, 'What can we do next to meet our goals?'" That's what it felt like to me to be entrepreneurial. I think it's really been informed by the people that originally inspired us in the first place, and these micro-entrepreneurs all over the world. Lucy: You know what? That's just what entrepreneurs do. Everyday they're looking around, trying to figure out what they can do better. Do you have a story or two that you can share with some of the entrepreneurs that have taken loans and been successful, and then paid the loans off? Jessica: Sure. I mean there are so, so many. It's actually one of the hardest questions I get, because really I mean every one of them is amazing. If you want an amazing success story, I can tell you for example there was a woman that really was one of the very first people I ever met in East Africa. She did such amazing stuff. She had started one business, like a charcoal selling business. She had gotten them $800. For that initial business, she did like the equivalent of what a multi-national corporation would do, like all the principals were there. She started the one business, and then she diversified. Then she expanded, not from her local market, she went to markets in other trading centers and other villages. She extended beyond her geographic region. She started five other small businesses of all different types. I mean really things that you really wouldn't think would be related. What she did was she got practice, and then she got very good at seeing market needs and seeing opportunities. So, she had the capitol after time, and she was able to say, "Huh." I think of a very small caring business that you could start with $200 or $300. I think that's what made it. So she did that, and she did the next thing, and the next thing. She just blew me away, because you knew that had she just been dealing in another environment with bigger numbers, she would be the head of a huge multi-national corporation that was doing all sorts of different things really well. So, people like that just always blow me away. I would say truly, it sounds like a bit of a cheesy answer, but the real truth is any story that you read on the Kiva site, there's something to learn, there's something to appreciate, and there's something good. I think say, "Hey! Good job there, " to the entrepreneurs for doing it, because each person is taking a risk even just in accepting a loan, and putting themselves out there and saying, "I'm going to try. I'm going to try to do things differently. I'm going to try and make my life better, and life for my family better." Just taking advantage of that opportunity is something I think should really be applauded, and in and of itself is really a triumph and a great thing, a great thing to see happen. So, that's the hardest question to answer, because all of the entrepreneurs that you can see, I truly find inspirational in something. Lucy: Well, thank you for sharing that. That really is inspirational. Lee: Well, the other thing, and I'm sure somebody has already tumbled to this, there's a business book in this. When you said that she was making all the right entrepreneurial business moves, there's got to be a lot of nuggets of wisdom in there. Larry: You had mentioned offline Jessica, that you are involved with Ashoka? Jessica: Well, yes. I mean, I have found a lot of inspiration in Ashoka over the years, and sort of been introducing the idea of social entrepreneurship through Ashoka. Additionally, he has been honored with the Ashoka Fellowship very recently. We're really excited to be part of that community. Larry: Congratulations! Let me get on with another question here. Who has been either a role model or a mentor in your career, in your life? Jessica: Oh, my goodness! Now, that's the hardest question. I feel like I have been so blessed and so surrounded by encouragers. I mean, can I say like my top five? Larry: OK. Jessica: My parents first and foremost have always given me... Actually, it was really funny. I watched the Emmys last night. I actually don't have a television, but I was with and brother and sister-in-law in L.A., and we were watching the Emmys a little bit. She was saying something funny. She was like, "Thanks to my mom and dad for giving me confidence, that was to the portion that was my looks and ability." It was like "that's what my parents said." My parents first and foremost made it without question an obvious thing, that I could do anything I wanted to in the world. So, that was kind of the foundational piece in a very supportive family. There's been a few others. When I heard Dr. Hamadias speak, his story spoke to me like no others had at that point. That's what propelled me to quit my job and go off and try to figure out micro-finance for myself, and try to do something like what he did, like walk around meet people, listen to their needs, and help. So, he gave me a huge inspiration. Then I guess, the other person I'll mention is Brian Reynolds actually gave me that opportunity to go. He is the Founder and Executive Director of a really great organization called "Village Enterprise Fund." They give $100 grants to entrepreneurs for business creation. They really start people on the very first string of the economic ladder. These are actually folks who are doing such risky things like their systems filing that "If it doesn't rain, everything is lost." Really, really small businesses, who their commissioners wouldn't take a loan probably because they would be not in the right position to do so. Their organization is amazing. I basically met with Brian right around the time I decided I was going to figure out a way to work in micro-finance. He really gave me that opportunity. He listened to me, kind of met me where I was and said, "Hey." Even though I had no skills that I could really name. I had studied philosophy and poetry undergrad. I had done event planning, and administrative things in my job. I really didn't have a lot to go on to say "look, this is why you should hire me, and let me go do micro-finance," but he gave me that chance. On that trip. out to East Africa with Village Enterprise Fund, that's what changed my life, and that's where we had the ideas for Kiva. So, I am absolutely grateful for him, among many, many other in my life over the last decade. There's a lot of people. Lee: Well, that's the good thing about entrepreneurship as well that there are lots of other good people around to encourage you, and to offer wisdom. One piece of wisdom that we've been getting lots of interesting answers too on this particular interview series is the toughest thing you've ever had to do. So, we're curious. What is the toughest thing so far, that you've had to do in your career? Jessica: That is a really good question. I would say without a doubt that it has been...really tough to... you know when you do something that you care about so much, and also something that is like with the social mission I think, it becomes your baby. It becomes like your...I don't know there all these analogies, your right arm, you just feel so attached. It has been a challenge I think to do the work life balance thing in any way because you just feel so driven, so consumed by it, and you want to spend all your waking hours on it, but that can be unhealthy and actually lead to burn out and that sort of thing. So finding the right balance has been probably the biggest challenge and also being removed enough to make objective decisions. You know, it's always a challenge when you are so in love with the work that you get to do. Lee: So speaking of personal and professional balance what do you do to bring balance with all the entrepreneurs you're trying to help, and the changes on the website, how do you manage that? Jessica: Well, I think it's just about kind of knowing what your priorities are and knowing what your boundaries are of what you can control and what you can't and then just working away. I think it is just a daily reminding and daily recalibration saying, "OK, here is what we are about. Here's what we can do. Here's what we can't do and let's just keep moving forward." I think another trick too is just checking yourself often to make sure you are not making decisions others fear or panic in any way. We haven't really... we're an interesting state where we haven't had a competitors per se really, and we don't even think that way. But if we were forced to look at other kind of collaborative organizations out there as competitors, even if we saw them as such, I think it would be the wrong move to be driven to make any sort of decisions, or move to out of the place of fear. Just like it is in life, just kind of knowing who you are, and what you're about, knowing who you're not and just doing that, like the trying to respond to what else is out there or what someone else is doing. I think staying true and pure to your own mission is what it is about. It will make you stay sane. Larry: You have actually kind of covered part of the question I was going to ask you and that is, you've done so many things Jessica and you work with all kinds of people around the world but if you were right now sitting down in front of a young potential entrepreneur, what advice would you give them? Jessica: OK, I have the privilege of getting to do this quite a bit. This is the number one thing I would say, two things. Follow whatever you are really passionate about. It can be something that doesn't make a lot of sense like what do you do when we were passionate about the stories, how do you follow that? We loved them, we celebrated them, we read them ourselves, we laughed, we cried, we just got into those stories and then by sharing those stories, the thing that we are passionate about with the people that we were passionate about, our friends and family, that led to some really great stuff. So just follow as best you can, the stuff that you are passionate about would be number one. Two, if you're going to do something and start something and you really believe that's kind of what you were meant to do next, I would say don't be afraid to start small. In fact, that is really the only way to begin. I just finished my MBA at Stanford. I can't say enough good things about that place and that community. It was amazing. Additionally, it's a place where it is easy to think big very quickly and say "let's go change the world in these huge huge ways and let's have..." you know you don't want to start something unless it's scalable and unless it is going to touch three million people in its first two years or whatever. Easy to say think big or go home and what's your plan for scalability? You need to know that right now. I would say to a budding entrepreneur, don't be afraid, to be very, very specific about what you want to do, and how you want to begin. You should definitely think long term, too. But goodness, it's not a bad thing to start small, and in fact I really really believe that is kind of the way you have to do it and just do a little plug. There's a wonderful man who I would consider a mentor and certainly someone I have looked up to and learned a lot from. His name is Paul Polak, and he wrote a book called "Out of Poverty." He really talks a lot about being in contact like designing whatever you are designing, particularly if it's a program, or a service, or a product to serve the poor, go be with the people that you want to serve. Go get to know them as individuals and design things for individuals not this group of statistic of statistics or the masses. Go meet real people, design for them, start with the, serve them, and then see how you can grow things. That would be my recommendation, don't be afraid to start small and be really passionate about what you are doing because that's the way good things happen. Lucy: Dare I say that that I am old and wizened woman but you know your advice about starting small and don't be afraid to do that, it feels a lot like something I've come to view as being true. You just often don't know what the next turn is going to be. You have to live it a while, and see how things change and mature, and then be opportunistic about which way things are going to go because you often don't see the end. Jessica: Oh, yes and you can't. Lucy: You can't. Jessica: You actually probably sometimes cannot see the next step. It is totally impossible until you make the first one. Lucy: That's fine and that's actually part of the fun, isn't it? Larry: It is part of the fun. It's also by the way a big part of the book that I'm just finishing. Lucy: Oh, you had to plug your book. Larry: "Master and change," yes. Lucy: You had to plug your book. Larry: Oh well. Lucy: Well so I think we have a book here. So I have to ask you though, is there such a big about entrepreneurism and Kiva about teaching the basic elements of entrepreneurship? Jessica: No, not yet, but I think there are about 20 books we can write with them, different angles, different experiences, Web 2.0, the power of connecting people, what have we learned about business from the entrepreneurs out there? There's a lot of potential. Lucy: Oh, absolutely. I look forward to it. Jessica: Yeah, me too. Lucy: You've already really achieved a lot. It's quite inspirational to talk to you and kiva is just such a great organization. What's next for you? We just talked about how sometimes you can't see around the corner, do you have any long term vision that you want to share with our listeners about what's next? Jessica: No, I don't, but I will say that something that's been crazy is just this feeling that... I mean this is like my life dream. You read my favorite business school. I would say it was from three years ago. I would say it was basically someday maybe maybe I will get to be a part of something like this. I feel like the luckiest person in the world and to think that there could be other things in the future just blows my mind. I feel overwhelmed even thinking about it but overall in the most positive way because I already feel like this is my life. If my life ended tomorrow, I would be very a really thankful, happy person because I feel like I've gotten to see my dream kind of come true. Everything else is icing on the cake. What I am trying to do is to stay open to possibility, and learn, and read, and talk to people, and stay open to observing what is going on out there. I am thankful for kiva, and I am thankful for whatever the future hold, but yeah I'll let you know when I know. Larry: All right. Lucy: That has to be the most inspirational thing I have ever heard. I mean just to hear the passion in your voice and the excitement, it gives me goose bumps. I'm happy for you. I hope other people benefit from all the work that you are doing. Jessica: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I just feel very very lucky. Larry: Wow, Jessica I want to thank you for joining us today. This was marvelous plus. Jessica: Thank you. Man 1: By the way you listeners out there, would you pass this interview along to others who you think would be interested. We will make sure that we have a website link to kiva. Say your website. Jessica: It's www.kiva.org. Larry: Sounds wonderful. This has just been great here we are with the National Center for Women and Information Technology. You are doing some great stuff by bringing these messages out for people who are doing wonderful things. Thanks. Lucy: Well thanks and listeners can find these interviews at www.ncwit.org and at w3w3.com. Larry: You bet. Lucy: So thank you very much. Larry: Thank you. Transcription by CastingWords Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Jessica JackleyInterview Summary: Jessica is a remarkable social entrepreneur who is Co-Founder and Chief Marketing Officer of www.kiva.org -- the first peer-to-peer micro-lending website. Kiva connects lenders with entrepreneurs from the developing world, empowering them to rise out of poverty. Release Date: September 29, 2008Interview Subject: Jessica JackleyInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 25:02

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Lee Kennedy CEO and Co-Founder, Tricalyx, Inc. Date: September 17, 2008 Lee Kennedy: TriCalyx [music] Larry Nelson: This is Larry Nelson with w3w3.com, Colorado's voice of the technology community. We link people's organization to unique and valuable resources. And we are at a very valuable resource today. We're here at the National Center for Woman and Information Technology, NCWIT, and of course we've got the boss here, Lucy Sanders. Lucy Sanders: Hi, Larry. Welcome. Larry: And you've got a very special interesting guest. Lucy: That's right. Lee Kennedy, welcome. Lee Kennedy: Thank you. Lucy: CEO of TriCalyx and serial entrepreneur at that, but here's what we like also about Lee, she's also on the NCWIT Board of Directors and gives that a lot of her personal time and woman in IT entrepreneurship, so extremely excited to be interviewing you today. Larry: And I'm sure everybody knows, Lucy you are the CEO of NCWIT. Lucy: I guess that's right. On any given day. Larry: On any given day. Lucy: On any given day. Larry: You've got a great team here too. Wonderful board and the things that you do are just absolutely phenomenal. I'm just happy to be a tiny part of it. Lee: Me too. Lucy: Well, thank you. Larry: Lee, just give us a little overview about what your company does and what it is. Lee: TriCalyx is a company that helps people grow their business online on the web. So we do everything from software development, building people web applications, online marketing, search engine optimization, anything to help them grow their business. Larry: Search engine optimization is becoming more and more popular. Is that something you feel is just an extra add-on or is it pretty essential? Lee: I think it's part of your basic marketing. If your product and your company can't be found on the web, you're at a real disadvantage from your competition. Lucy: What do you think about some of the social networking software? How are you seeing that working into how people want to grow their business on the web? Lee: That's a great question, Lucy, because a lot of companies are trying to figure out how they can grow their business doing advertising or being present on social networks. And it's still in that early phase where there's not a clear path on how to do that. Lucy: Well, it's a popular topic for sure. Larry: That's for sure. Lee: It is popular because there's millions and millions of people that spend time on Facebook and all the other social networks, but for the most part, most of those people are there to talk to their friends, and not look at advertisements. Larry: Now, Lee, you've got a very interesting background. You've been CIO for WebRoot Software. I know you've done a bunch of work with Brad Feld and some of his troops. What made you then really want to become an entrepreneur? Lee: Yeah, it really starts back as early as being an early girl. My dad was an insurance agent and I remember going around the neighborhood selling these little first-aid kits that he had. [laughter] Lee: I can't even remember why I was doing it, but I just loved getting out and starting businesses. I would even go to the local Salvation Army and bargain with them with their prices for things. Lucy: Get out of here! [laughter] Lee: I'm not kidding you. Lucy: So, it sounds like the sales part of this was intriguing. The marketing piece? Lee: I've always loved the sales and marketing and then my background is technology, which I loved because I just found it where there was always so many puzzles to solve. Lucy: It sounds like your parents had something to do with indirectly with starting you on this entrepreneurial path. Who else has influenced you? Lee: Well, I don't know if it was -- who influenced me to be an entrepreneurial, but my sister was definitely a bit influence on my life. She's 12-and-a-half years older and has always been the most fabulous person I've ever known, just can do anything, is smart, never let's anything daunt her on her path. Larry: Now would you consider her a role model or a mentor? Lee: She was a role model because I always saw her go after whatever she wanted and achieve it. Lucy: You were at WebRoot in the early days. What did you learn there as an entrepreneurial? Because that's been a success story. Lee: Yeah, I've been at a number of other successful startups before WebRoot, so I felt like a learned a lot at those companies, but the thing that was probably the most interesting at WebRoot was, when I came into WebRoot we were a small 20-person company, just a few million in revenue. But the market of spyware and anti-spyware was just about to boom, and I think all the experience I had told me it was like, "This market was hot and we have to go for it." And so, once I was hired, they had me build an enterprise division, it was our number one goal to get that product out there, to get the reseller base, to get the customers as fast as possible, because we knew that first-to-market was going to be the winner and that's what we were. We were able to capture that market right when it exploded. Larry: With all those experiences, let me ask this: what's probably the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career? Lee: That question, as you know, I've been on the other side of these interviews. Lucy: Selling first aid kits? Lee: Yeah! [laughter] Lee: That was tough. I didn't like that. There's a lot of things that were tough. A lot of the people we've interviewed talked about having to let people go or fire them, and that's definitely a hard one. Nobody likes to be fired and it's a terrible thing to fire people, but there's been a few other things that we really, really hard. I think cold calling is the worst thing on earth to have to do. And I had to do that in some of my early sales job. The other thing that was really, really tough was leaving a phenomenal job that paid well and had a great reputation and going and being nothing and starting my own business. Because you're in a position of power and security and then to just start something from scratch takes a lot of courage, and that was a tough thing to do. Lucy: What about cold calling did you find hard? Lee: There's a lot of things: rejection, the hanging up of the phone on the other end. But I guess it was the monotony. For me, it was just over and over, picking up the phone and expecting something different to happen, when most of the 99% of people didn't want to hear from you. Lucy: It's a bit like nonprofit fund-raising. [laughter] Lee: There we go! You keep hoping the answer will change. Lucy: No, somebody told me once and I carried this in my heart that a "no" is a just a first step to "yes." Lee: Yeah! Lucy: And they don't really mean "no" until they've told you "no" three times. Lee: Yeah. Lucy: And so, that's one of the things I've really had to remember. So, Lee, after all these different experiences, and you're sitting here with somebody who's considering being and entrepreneur, what kind of advice would you give them? Lee: You know, throughout my career, some of the best experiences I've had were working -- one of the companies was called Net Dynamics, and we sold that company to Sun Micro, and I have to say some of my best experiences came from that company, and it was working with some of the most talented people I've ever worked with. They were all smart and energetic and aggressive. In one year, I probably learned more than 10 years than at some of the other companies, because we were just doing everything right and learning from each other and making changes. What I suggest is, if you can get out of college, try to work with the brightest company, the smartest people, and get great mentors because they can all help you learn a lot quicker. Lucy: Don't you find that you're in that kind of situation where you're working on a great team, that you often don't know at that moment that that is a fabulous team? Sometimes you have to stop and be grateful for that because you get 10 years, 20 years down the road and realize, "That was really -- we had it all together there." Lee: I knew. I knew they wore, because I had been at a number of companies. I was, oh gosh, in my early 30s then, and I knew. I have never worked with such a great team, whereas in some companies you'll have some bright people but you'll have some people who are really slow and it's hard to get things done. It was just a great learning experience. Larry: Brad Feld -- who's quite a supporter of NCWIT also -- I interviewed him a few weeks ago and he pointed out with his team, the team he has over there at the Foundry Group and these are people he wants to work with the rest of his life. And so I think that's quite an extraordinary thing. Lucy: That's high praise! Larry: Boy, I'll say. Lee: Yeah. Larry: Isn't that the truth. Lucy: Maybe he'll hire me! [laughter] Larry: Me too! Lee: Maybe for life! [laughter] Lucy: For life! Larry: You're going to make another switch? No. You mentioned earlier, that you are got this marketing piece and you're also a techie, it sounds like kind of an interesting balance. Are those the characteristics that make you a strong entrepreneur? Lee: I think it helps a lot being in the field I am because in starting TriCalyx, I was fortunate in that I helped start a lot of businesses and knew all the marketing and knew how to get out and do the sales. But also having the technical experience, it's great because you can really talk from a first person perspective. It gives you more credibility with the people you're meeting with. Lucy: I'll add in another one for you because you mentioned it earlier, but I thought it was important enough to perhaps return to it, and that's this notion of reinventing yourself. You said it was hard, but you've been quite successful in doing it over and over and over again, which leads me to think of two things. One is, just because it's hard it means you shouldn't and can't do it, and that the reinvention process is so necessary for learning. It's really important to start over and not always to be so entrenched. Lee: That is such a good point, Lucy, because out of all the experiences, I think I value the learning piece the most. And probably in the position I am in now, I am learning more than I've learned in years, and I love it. I get up every morning so excited and it can be something as silly as in an application I learned how to do something on the technical back end. With my partners, they're laughing because I'm excited about learning about HTML and learning a bit of PHP. And they're like, "Oh, you really are a nerd!" Larry: In the past interviews with L, L and L - that's Lucy, Lee and Larry - the subject came up about how do you bring balance to your personal and professional lives. And of course the three of us have heard a wide range of replies. What's yours? Lee: I'd have to say having an ex-husband that is phenomenal as a dad. He's really helped me to having a career, because having three kids, that would of been impossible if I had a traditional husband that worked lots of hours and expected the woman to pick up the slack. And it's been just the reverse. He's really been a fabulous dad and helped out when I was working long hours. Stressful... Larry: We haven't heard that one before. Lucy: No, but I would say that would make a big difference! Larry: Yes, exactly. Lucy: That's for sure. So, you've achieved a lot with lots of companies, lots of learning. What's next for you? Can you see past TriCalyx or are you still in there writing code and having fun? Lee: No, we already have a plan. We want to keep TriCalyx, the aspect of TriCalyx being a service business but we also want to have an off-shoot business that is a software company, that has a service on the web. So we've been writing some code and bouncing some different applications about and hopefully we'll launch that later this year. Larry: Wow, well, we'll have to interview her again. Lucy: Again. Well because you're Lee, I want to ask you one final question that we don't usually ask people. Lee: I feel special. Lucy: Yeah. You give back a lot of your time to worthwhile causes here in the state of Colorado, and perhaps you can just spend a minute and say why that's important. We have found that entrepreneurial community is quite generous, here locally with their time and in this space. Perhaps a word or two about giving back? Lee: Yeah, my career was mostly in Silicon Valley up until seven years ago. I moved here to Boulder and one of the things that was so, so refreshing about moving here is about the spirit of giving back. I was amazed at how many people introduced me to other people and would spend hours of their time in trying to get me networked into the area. It just made me feel like, "Gosh, what a wonderful environment to raise and live with my kids" So, I wanted to do more of the same. The other thing is, being a woman in technology, earlier in my career and through college, there weren't a lot of other women. I was in engineering and I've always felt like it would have been so nice to have women to talk to, to have as a mentor. So I've made it a real point ever since I got out of college to be a mentor and to help with other women who are coming up the technology route and hope I can help them make decisions or give them advice on the way. Larry: Great advice, wow. Spread the wealth. Lee: Yeah. Lucy: Well, thank you for that too. And thanks for spending your time with us. You know, it was past due that we interviewed you, so this was really fun. Larry: It was fun turning the table. I love that part. Lee: Yeah. Larry: Well, this is Larry Nelson with w3Ww3.com, here at NCWIT, that's the National Center for... Lucy: The National Center for Women and Information Technology. Larry: Exactly right. Lucy: You can just say NCWIT, and that's just fine. Larry: NCWIT.org. Lee: And you can find these podcasts at www.NCWIT.org and www.w3w3.com. Larry: That's right. And download it as a podcast and you can also post on the blog if you'd like. Lee: There you go! Larry: Thank you, guys. [music] Transcription by CastingWords Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Lee KennedyInterview Summary: Lee's got some great advice for getting kids interested in IT and entrepreneurship. In fact, you might want your kids to listen to this interview. Release Date: September 17, 2008Interview Subject: Lee KennedyInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 14:19

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Audrey MacLean Co-Founder & VP, Network Equipment Technologies; Co-founder & CEO, Adaptive Date: July 30, 2008 Audrey MacLean: Network Equipment Technologies Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women & Information Technology, or NCWIT, and this is one of a series of interviews that we're doing with IT entrepreneurs, people who have fabulous advice about starting companies. With me, I have Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi. I'm happy to be here, of course. Lucy: Why don't you tell us a bit about w3w3. Larry: We're an Internet based all business radio show. Our focus is high tech, which is why we are here. Lucy: Well, wonderful. Also, Lee Kennedy, an NCWIT director and a serial entrepreneur and also co founder of Tricalyx. Hi, Lee. Lee Kennedy: Hi. Thanks for having me today. Lucy: Welcome. Today, we're really fortunate to have Audrey MacLean as our interviewee and I can't say enough about her by way of introduction. Audrey, you have such a reputation for helping entrepreneurs for mentoring them. I know you're going to have a lot of great advice for our listeners today. But, you have such a great track record. You're a founder of the Network Equipment Technologies and also Adaptive. And, you're an independent investor and also a consulting associate professor at Stanford University where you deal with ethic entrepreneurship. So, there's a lot to say and I think we just want to jump right into the interview. So, welcome. Audrey MacLean: Thank you. Happy to be here. Lucy: We like to start our interview series with a question about technology and really pick your brain about the up and coming technologies. And somebody, such as yourself, you work with a lot of entrepreneurs so you see a lot. I'm very curious to know what you think are the emerging technologies and how they're going to shape the landscape. Audrey: Well, as you mentioned, in terms of my own personal background, I cut my teeth in the industry in the networking field; in ET, Adaptive and a lot of other companies that I've participated in the growth of. So, as a network bigot, if you will, I continue to believe that some of the most exciting innovation we're going to see across, at least the next decade or two, has everything to do with the Internet and mobile technologies. Having said that, I think there's going to be a lot happening on the clean tech and the med tech front as well that is going to change lives. Lucy: Well, and I happen to be a network bigot myself. Lee: Yes, you are. Lucy: So, we really like that answer. Say a bit about clean tech if you will. What are you seeing there? Audrey: I see a broad spectrum of applications emerging, literally, every quarter over at Stanford. There's the obvious big things with the big entrenched utilities and the search for alternative sources of energy. But, there's all kinds of little opportunities as well that I think you would find just as amazing. We've had companies that are building LED lanterns for applications in India. I think that the clean tech front is one of the most exciting places that I'm seeing my students have interesting new innovations in. Lucy: Wow. Larry: That really is a hot topic here, excuse the expression. Lee: Oh, stop. Larry: OK. I'd better stop. Lee: Well, Colorado is really into some of these things as well. Lucy: So Audrey, it's clear from looking at your background that you've been an entrepreneur and worked with entrepreneurs for years. What is it about entrepreneurship that you love? Audrey: Everything. I assume you wanted a more complete response to that. First of all, I tell my students all the time, it is an extreme sport. I've been on the faculty of Stanford engineering school now since '94 and I've made sure that my students understand that it is not for everyone. It is one of the most demanding feats that anyone can undertake. So, it's to be - proceed with caution. Let's put it that way. But, in terms of what attracts me to entrepreneurship, and I have to say to begin with, that I'm sort of an accidental entrepreneur. I didn't set out thinking, "oh, I want to be an entrepreneur." In fact, people didn't talk about it much when I began. It's just that I had been working for 10 years at a company called Time Net in the packet switching field and came upon an opportunity that was so compelling that I had to quit my job and go do it. I think that's at the heart of what makes me tick as an entrepreneur. It's that you want to solve problems that need to be solved and when you do, you want to turn them into reality. It's that process that's exciting and it's that process that got me excited as an entrepreneur. And it's that same process that keeps me excited about working with a new generation of entrepreneurs to help them realize their dreams. The fact is that to be an entrepreneur, you have to be able to see things the way they could be versus the way they are and you have to believe that if you can see it, you can make it happen and then you have to inspire others to want to do it with you because it always takes a team. So for me, personally, I'm always in search of how things can be improved and I love the process of creating something out of nothing. And truthfully, I'm happiest when I'm collaborating with others to materialize real results and I never give up. So for me, entrepreneurship is a natural habitat. But, I'm not sure that that's true for everyone. Larry: You just mentioned the word "inspired." Along the way, who might be somebody that had a major impact in your direction, maybe had been a mentor to you, a special adviser? Audrey: Again, you have to consider the time frame in which my career began. I didn't really have a specific mentor. I was certainly influenced by lots of entrepreneurs early on in Silicon Valley particularly those that cared as passionately about the corporate culture they were creating as they did about the product innovations that they were bringing to market. There were - I don't know; Bob Noyce, Ken Oshman, Jimmy Treybig - people like that that were inspirations to me. But, my primary source of encouragement and support was my husband, Mike. Lucy: Well, and we know that spouses play a large role in the success of an entrepreneur for sure. Larry: That's a fact. Lucy: And that's a fact. And that's a fact. So, you mentioned building corporate culture which I found very interesting along with the products or the services and that being an important byproduct of entrepreneurship. Often, good corporate cultures will help you weather the bad times, weather the hard decisions. Maybe you could share with our listeners what the toughest thing you've ever had to do in your career was. Audrey: On an umbrella level, by far the toughest thing that I've had to do in my career is keep my family life and my role as an entrepreneurial CEO in balance. I obviously was totally committed and completely professionally driven. But, when I look back on my career and I look at N.E.T., and Adaptive, and Peace, and Pure, and all the companies we've built and all the jobs we've created and all the market value achieved, the truth for me is that when I look back at my life, those things are in the top ten. But, the top three are still my husband, our kids and our family. So, I think that the overall balance is the most important thing. In terms of specifics, career things, I think the merger of Adaptive into N.E.T. was a very challenging transition in that Adaptive had built a very exciting corporate culture where the entire team was very bonded and the extended families of the employees themselves were very connected to the company. We had done that consciously in many ways and it was to support employees in a start up who have to put forward such enormous efforts. We wanted their families to be participants. For example, we gave New Baby stock to anybody whose spouse or themselves gave birth to a child while we were growing the company. Things like that and obvious activities at the company brought families in and engaged them directly. So when we were ultimately merging Adaptive into N.E.T., there was going to be a huge cultural change as Adaptive that had 150 people and had won back to back product of the year awards and everybody was totally on the same page in terms of goals and directions and culture. Suddenly they had to merge into a much larger entity and make that transition. I think that was probably one of the more challenging points in my personal career. But again, I think that the way you get through those things is by being completely clear on the objectives and completely direct and open with your employees. And ultimately, I think that reality drives a situation like that and you simply help people navigate it. Interviewer: Well you mentioned corporate culture as a way to help employees bring balance to their lives. This is something we don't often hear from the people we interview. We hear, you know, many wonderful things around hobbies or personal things that they do. I'd like to just follow up about a few other things that Adaptive may have done in this area in addition to the New Baby stock because this is such an important issue and we just keep seeing the same corporate cultures over and over again. Audrey: You know, it's taken a lot of different forms in a lot of different companies. But, I think first off you have to celebrate successes. That could be bringing in a vat of ice cream on a software build or it could be a massive party to celebrate a first customer shift. But, you need to celebrate successes. But on a daily basis, you need to do things as well. So for example, one of the things we did at Adaptive was if you were there in the evening, you had two corporate accounts from local restaurants that you could call up and order dinner. In practice, what ended up happening was someone would start walking around and seeing who was still working and say, oh, you like the garlic eggplant, and you like this, and order up a pile of food. People would end up in conference rooms all over the company eating dinner together and talking about what they were working on. Not surprisingly, they would end up solving different problems. "Oh, I didn't realize you were doing that. We've already done this piece." So, this bonding and this nurturing where you're saying, hey, if you're still working and it's time to eat a meal, we're going to make sure you get it as opposed to having to leave and drive somewhere and spend your time and money doing it. So, those sorts of things if you look at companies like Google today, they've taken it to the next step where they've got a cafeteria where employees at any point can go down and get a nutritious meal at breakfast, or at lunch, or at dinner. The idea simply is that if your employees are working that hard, you want to make sure that they're being nourished, as well as nurtured. So, I jokingly say feed them. Literally, feed them. So, those sorts of things are important. But then, it's also the little practical ways in which it infiltrates the culture. I remember one time my C.F.O. at Adaptive came into my office with a look of worry on his face and said, "I've got a problem." And, I said, "what's that?" He said, "Well, you and I have that 3:00 meeting in 20 minutes and I just got a call from the nanny saying her car broke down and she can't go pick up Tyler, his son, at preschool." And I said, "who else is in the meeting?" And he said, "just you and me". I said, "OK, so it's not a problem. We'll get in the car. I'll drive. You go over the material with me. We'll pick up Tyler, bring him to the nanny, and we'll be back in time for our next meeting. And, he looked at me and said, "I never would have thought of that." It's that type of thing. It's giving people the permission to think about what needs to be done that will make their life support the incredible task you're trying to undertake with a startup company. Lucy: I love it. It's the practical advise. So many companies will feed their employees if they're working late, but it's those little things like picking up the kid from school because the nanny's car broke down. Larry: Yeah. Audrey: Exactly. Lucy: So, Audrey it's clear you've had all kinds of successes, and I'm sure there's some failures along the way, but everything from building companies, merging companies, culture. If you were sitting here with a young person, what tidbits would you pull from your background to just give them the pearls of wisdom? Audrey: Well, it's interesting that you refer to it as "pearls of wisdom," because I obviously have been on the teaching faculty now since 1994. So, I frequently get asked for advice, and I frequently respond by saying, "I don't necessarily want to dole out advice, but I'm happy to share some used wisdom." Lucy: That's great. Audrey: I think that one of the pieces of used wisdom, apart from what we talked about earlier which is, "This is an extreme sport, and it's not for everyone." But if it is for you, and you really are going to go for it, one of the important things to realize is you can't do it alone. You need to create a team. One of the most important decisions you'll make are who to trust. It's extremely important that you choose your partners and your advisors wisely. So, I think that that's probably one of the most valuable pieces of used wisdom or advice that I can leave people with, which is that you need to put the team together. You need to be sure that the label of integrity and commitment is there across the board, and then you need to strap on the ski boots and get your knees forward in these boots. Larry: You've already achieved a great deal. You have lots of interests from clean tech, to just a variety of different topics that you're involved with. What do you see on the horizon next for you? Audrey: As you know, I got off the court and onto the coaching bench over a decade ago now, but I can tell you there are more exciting things happening right now that I'm involved with then at any other point in my career. The number of young entrepreneurs that I'm working with right now, and the potential for innovation that will help change the way we will live on this planet is greater today, then it was certainly at the beginning of the last century. I have tremendous faith in the future that this new generation of entrepreneurs can create. I will do exactly what I have done, which is to continue to work in support of the realization of their dreams. I don't give up, so I expect to be doing this for a long time to come. Larry: Well, they say, "Persistence is omnipotent." Audrey: Well, certainly tenacity is a fundamental tenant of any entrepreneurial endeavor. Lucy: Well, it's very heartening to know that you're out there coaching these young entrepreneurs. I can't imagine a better coach, a better person to pass along their wisdom. It's really inspirational. I know that Kristin McDonald was just, "Oh! One of my advisors is Audrey." I'm sure that she's one of many, who really depend on your experiences. So, I know that they would all be sitting here saying, "Thank you, Audrey." Audrey: Well, like I said it takes a team, so I'm happy to be on their team. Lucy: Well, thanks so much for sitting down with us for a few minutes and talking about entrepreneurship. We really do appreciate it. We want to remind listeners where they can find these interviews. They can find them at w3w3.com, and also at NCWIT.org. So, thank you Audrey. We really appreciate it. Larry: Thank you very much. Lucy: I want to say that I have now learned a new phrase that "Entrepreneurism is an extreme sport." Woman 1: Don't you love it? It's so appropriate. Lucy: I love it. So, thank you for that too. Audrey: You're welcome, and thank you for keeping and spreading the word. Transcription by CastingWords Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Audrey MacLeanInterview Summary: Audrey MacLean has a unique track record for entrepreneurial success as a founder, CEO, seed investor, and board member. Release Date: July 30, 2008Interview Subject: Audrey MacLeanInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 18:35

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Kristin Asleson McDonnell CEO, LimeLife Date: July 15, 2008 Kristin McDonnell: LimeLife [music] Lucy Sanders: Hi. This is Lucy Sanders, the CEO of the National Center for Women & Information Technology, or NCWIT. Today we have another interview in our series of interviews with IT entrepreneurs, people who have started just fabulous companies, organizations that use computing information technology. With me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hello. I'm happy to be here. Lucy: W3W3 is an Internet radio station. Larry: That's right. Lucy: And these interviews can be found at the W3W3 site as well as at the NCWIT site. Also with me is Lee Kennedy a director of NCWIT, a serial entrepreneur herself and a co-founder of TriCalyx. So welcome, Lee. Lee Kennedy: Thanks. Thanks for having me today. Lucy: Well, and today we have Kristin McDonnell here, CEO of LimeLife, for our interview. In looking at your company, Kristin, it's just such a great company. I think one of the tag lines I saw , "It delivers fun right through your mobile device." Kristin McDonnell: Right. Lucy: And it's fabulous and I know our listeners are going to be very interested in it because it's one of the companies maybe, perhaps the only company, that is developing content exclusively focused on the women's market. So, starting with gaming - OK, Look, you guys. I have a favorite game. Games like "Girls Night Out Solitaire," "Girls Night Out Blackjack." However, my personal favorite is "Law and Order." Ding! Ding! So, Kristin, welcome. We're really happy to have you here. Why don't you tell us just a bit about LimeLife? Kristin: Sure. So, LimeLife is a digital media company focused on the female market. We're focused primarily on females between the ages of about 18 and 34. Although we do know that there are younger teens and women that are more my age group, in their 40s, that are also our customers. We create experiences. Right now what you see on our website is primarily for the mobile platform. So mobile games, lifestyle tools like "People Magazine" on the phone. They leave text messages like horoscope, love tips, beauty tips and also wallpapers working with fashion brands to bring their imagery to mobile wallpapers. What we're launching this summer of 2008 is a web and mobile community for women that is a lifestyle community around shopping, fashion, music, and our tag line for that community is: "Everything I like wherever I am." It allows women to discover, collect, share items of interest, items of inspiration with each other as well as giving them a mechanism to have everything they like wherever they are, whether they're on their mobile phone or on their web-connected PC. So we're very excited about that launch that is coming up very shortly. Lucy: Wow. It sounds really exciting. Kristin: Yeah. Lucy: The mobile market is such an emerging market, such an exciting space, and that gets us to our first question, which is a technology question. Obviously mobility is a cool technology for you, lots of potential there. Are there other things surrounding mobility that you think are the hot technologies of today? Kristin: Sure. The things that I'm very excited about in terms of mobile -- and I think that the iPhone has started to show some of this capability -- is that it really is a connected computer that is with you all day long that can really give you access to your favorite websites, your favorite content, as well as to other people. Also, with the camera phone capabilities improving with each iteration, the ability to really take high quality photos and video with your phone and then to share it with your network is something that we're very focused on. And then as you layer on location-based services as those evolve, where the phone can really understand where are you in relationship to the people who are important to you, or the places that are important to you, or to places or people that the knowledge of the community think might be important to you. And so it's really going to become an amazing device in terms of its capability -- in terms of how we think about it - to make women's lives much easier and much more fun and much more connected in a way that the PC simply cannot and in a way that today's more rudimentary phones simply cannot. Other web technologies that that we see that are very interesting as well, that we do believe are going to migrate to the phone as well, are around creativity and self expression and really giving people capabilities of doing things far more interesting than, let's say, just making lists of photos or lists of things that are of interest, but really to create collages or match ups of content so that you can really self-express why that content is important to you as opposed to just having it in more of a list format. So those are the things I'm very excited about. And then the advertising technologies and capabilities that come as part of that are very interesting as well. Such that, can we provide advertising messages at a point on women's phones where the women really want that ad message or they really want that coupon and it really becomes a very powerful and meaningful dialogue between the consumer and the advertiser, as opposed to the advertiser potentially coming into their lives when the consumer is not welcoming that kind of message. Lucy: Well, it really is interesting when I think about the younger generation. And then we dinosaurs here in the room I'm speaking of. Larry: She looked at me mostly. Lee: Speak for yourself. Lucy: But I look at my teenage daughters and how they use their phone. It's amazing. We were somewhere where we needed my 16-year-old's social security number and she didn't have it memorized. But, "Hold on, mom. I've got it right here in my phone." I'm thinking, "I don't put my social security number in my phone." But everything is in her phone and all of her interactions are with her phone. Lee: Well, and this notion of providing advertising when people want it, I think is spot on. Lucy: That's the key. Lee: Because I don't mind advertising, especially if it gives me something helpful for what I'm doing. Lucy: If it's relevant to what you're doing, it can be really helpful. So, Kristin, that segues us back to the beginning of your career and education. What was it about being an entrepreneur or why were you interested in becoming an entrepreneur? And then now, what is it that you love about it? Kristin: When I think back to what was I doing in junior high or high school that might have indicated that I had this entrepreneurial bent, because one of my first jobs out of college was to join two guys from Arthur Anderson to start a company. So that entrepreneurial bent started very early in my career. And I always gravitated towards organizations that combined creativity and business and I, typically, was the business part of that creative effort. So whether it was the school newspaper or the school yearbook or the plays at school, I just loved being around creative people where we were building something, creating something, and where I took a role, typically, is more of the financial business arm of it, or the ad sales person for the school newspaper or whatever it may be. I just loved being around those creative people. And then in high school, it wasn't until I took the SATs that I realized that I was pretty good in math. I don't know how that - somehow, my teachers didn't tell me that or I just didn't realize it and it was only when I realized, "Hey, I'm better than most people in math," after the SATs that I then went to college and enrolled in the school of engineering and took my first computer science class as a freshman. And that computer science class really introduced me to one of my core loves, which is computer programming. I don't do it anymore, but building models in Excel and things like that, that same logic and building something out of nothing just really excites me. So it was through that, those computer programming classes that I took throughout my college career -- actually, I was just two credits shy of having a computer science degree from Northwestern -- that I really wanted to do something around computer science. So that first entrepreneurial company that I started with the two other gentlemen was to do systems consulting to corporate America just as the PC was starting to enter into the IT environment. Most of the environment thus far has been mainframe-oriented and the PC was just starting to come in, and we'd bring in PCs to act as clients to those mainframes. So that was my first startup. I've been a part of six startups now and I just found that I love building something out of nothing, whether it's a team, or a financial model or a consumer software experience, that I just love that process of building. Larry: Well, along the way, I can't help but wonder with all the different people you've met, the companies you've been involved with, and your success track is really super, have there been any particular role models or mentors along the way? Kristin: Well, my parents have been huge role models and mentors to me from a very early age. Both of my parents have been presidents and CEOs of organizations, both business as well as nonprofits. So that was a very early role model for me going back to when I was three, four, or five years old. And so I was able to see what does it mean to be the CEO or a president of an organization? How do you act around your team? What types of challenges do you have? I remember my mom having to, unfortunately, let somebody go at one point and, as a 10-year-old, we were counseling her on what do you say and how do you make this happen. So they just gave us a lot of great first-hand experiences where we'd be there with them at work, or at the company party, or whatever it may be, where we understood what does it mean to be a leader of a team. And then the entrepreneurs that I've worked for, the CEOs of the companies that I've worked for, have been huge role models for me. Audrey MacLean, who introduced me to all of you guys, has been a successful CEO many times and has been a great adviser to me. And then just also looking at successful media companies in this instance and just understanding what were the various steps that they took at various points in time and how did they shape their strategy as new opportunities evolved. So I'm a sponge for advice and guidance and mentorship, and I just love to hear other people's experiences. There's really a wide variety of people that I draw upon. But it's really my parents that I owe the biggest debt of gratitude to instill in that at a very early age. Lucy: And you mentioned that your mom had faced something that you remember around letting people go as being something quite difficult, and we've heard that in this series of interviews from a number of people, that that is a hard thing to do. What's the toughest thing that you've ever faced in your career and how did you handle it? Kristin: I would say layoffs are probably the most difficult thing. I've had to downsize companies significantly. It's very difficult to have a team that you've had such great experiences with in building a company and then, unfortunately, you have to let them go. So that's definitely extremely difficult. I think that one of my metrics for my own experience and success and just performance is whether people leave feeling good about the experience that they have. And thankfully, I do feel like that is something that even as they're departing unfortunately as part of a layoff that they have said, "This was a great experience for me. Thank you so much." I've actually hired people back after layoffs. But we found,hey, the company's growing again. We need to hire somebody back. And it's just been a really satisfactory experience for me to be able to hire people back and to have them want to rejoin even though they've been through this experience of having been part of a downsizing. So I think that those are very difficult experiences. I think that early on, entrepreneurs face a lot of difficulty, sometimes convincing investors of your vision. That just takes a lot of work and you have to almost think of yourself as a salesperson, where you're anticipating that you're going to get nine "no's" for every one "yes, and that you just want to get through those no's as quickly as possible so you can get to that one yes. So those can be difficult times. I think, especially for people if they can't hear a "no" easily. And I think that, as an entrepreneur, you just need to let it wash off you and to almost make you feel more powerful and more committed to your goals when you do hear those no's and just saying I'm going to show that person someday that they should've invested in our company. So, that's just another difficult thing that entrepreneurs face, especially in the early days of just getting started. Lucy: That in itself is some really great advice for people that are new entrepreneurs and don't realize how many no's you do get along the way. I'd be really curious with all the experience you have over the years, if you were sitting here with some young people that were starting their business, what kind of advice would you give them? What are some pearls of wisdom? Kristin: Sure. I would tell them to focus on something that really excites them, and they should anticipate that they're going to be working at this company and on this idea for seven-plus years. That they should not think of this as something that is going to take 18 months and is suddenly going to be purchased by some huge company. That it really should be something that every day they'll feel excited about working on it. You know when I look back at the six startups that I have been with, four of them have had various liquidity events, either IPOs or being acquired. And when I trace like how long did it really take for those companies to really achieve the vision of what it ultimately could be become, it took between seven and 10 years for that ultimate outcome to actually occur. That's why I think you just have to be really excited about it because it is every day [laughs] for a long period of time. And once they kind of gravitate toward that idea, then to just realizes that it is just every day pushing the ball forward, and that the more that they can create a list every day of those things that only they can do that will create major value for the company and really focus on accomplishing those things and trying to delegate or delay those things that they feel like, "OK, well it would be nice if I could get this thing done but it not going to create a huge value for the company," or, "This is a fun little exercise for me but there are five other people in the company that could do it." Try to deligate those things and really just focus on like what are the major value builders that only I can do today and today, and to get those done as quickly as possible so that the company really catapults forward as opposed to inches forward. Larry: Kristin, you know with all the different things that you are involved with, I have to guess that you probably put in some pretty long hours or maybe some weekends or evenings. How do you bring balance to your personal and professional lives? Lucy: Considering you have three kids, right? Kristin: Yes, yes, I do. I think that what I start with is what really rejuvenates me? What are those things that really feed my soul, and eliminate all the other things that don't truly rejuvenate me. And what are those things that really are critical? Again, I do this in my personal life, what are those things that only I can do? And try to delicate as much of the other things like cleaning the house, to other people. [laughter] Lucy: [sarcastically] My personal favorite. Kristin: Yeah, it actually drains my soul, the cleaning part. The things that I feel like only I can do, only I can be a mom to my kids, only I can be a wife to be husband, only I can be a daughter to my parents. So really focusing in on those very few things, because you're not going to have much time to do something else, and trying to do those things as well as you can with the very limited time that you have. So the one thing that my husband and I try to do as much as possible is to have dinner as a family alone together at least a couple or a few times a week, where there aren't any other people or friends involved and that we're all there together. We just really talk about what happened in your day, what was fun, what was not so fun, so that we are really communicating as a family because we do have so few hours together every day. And just doing those things, trying to play with my kids, trying to interact with my husband. He and I are just kind of passing in the night because he is also very busy with his career. Again, I think just focusing on what's truly emotionally fulfilling. My one hobby is gardening so I try to get in like 10 minutes a day of planting something or pruning something, just so that I can feel like I am doing something other than just working. Lucy: You know, I'm a gardener. [laughs] Kristin: Oh, really? Lee: Me too. Lucy: So, you're talking to some gardeners here. Kristin: Excellent. Lucy: We're right on the same page. I have to say, it's quite heartening, your parents are such role models to you and you're carrying on that tradition. I know your children will look at you as a role model as well because of the values that you hold and the great advice that you have given us on this interview today, so we really appreciate that. You've told us a lot about working on things that excite you, combining creativity and business. You're in a very exciting area. Mobility has got to be one of the most exciting technical areas that there is. In fact, I watched a YouTube session with you talking about the mobility market at Stanford. Kristin: What do you know? Lucy: Yeah, I thought it was quite good and would recommend that to listeners who want to know more about mobility and LimeLife. I thought it was wonderful. Kristin: Great. Lucy: We have one final question. You've done a lot and you're doing a lot, what is next for you? What is next after LimeLife, do you have a vision of that or what? [laughter] Kristin: I don't. Just keep building LimeLife and build it into a really great digital media company and continue to build a great team that's running it day-to-day. Some day hopefully, I think I always would like to be involved with it, but if it does reach a point where I don't have to be as involved with it day-to-day, it would be either starting something new again or helping other entrepreneurs start their vision and get it going. I do feel like I've seen everything from the highest of highs, of taking a startup public, to the lowest of lows, shutting down companies. I feel like I've seen quite a range of things that can happen in an entrepreneur environment. I think that when I'm older and grayer that it would be very satisfying to help other entrepreneurs realize their visions and realize their dreams and impart some of what I have learned to them. Lucy: We have just one final request for you too. One of the things that NCWIT works on is the image of computing, and when you were talking about be a programmer and loving to do that, we may be back in touch for a few quotes from you. Larry: You betcha. Kristin: OK. [laughs] Lucy: So thank you very much. We really did enjoy talking to you. Lee: Thanks, Kristin. Kristin: Thank you. Larry: And one last thing, Kristin, I want you to know that you are already in the process of helping other entrepreneurs, because we spread this out and we have parents, we have also young girls who listen to these interviews. I think your story is very compelling. Kristin: Oh, that's terrific, thank you. Lucy: Yeah, thanks a lot and just to remind listeners they can find these interviews at w3w3.com and ncwit.org. Thanks, you guys. Lee: Thanks. Kristin: Thank you. Take care. Larry: Bye-bye. [music] Transcription by CastingWords Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Kristin Asleson McDonnellInterview Summary: When Kristin McDonnell and the LimeLife team thought about what they wanted our cell phones to be able to do for us, more fun and more help were at the top of the list: more games and downloadable content like recipes, horoscopes, and lifestyle tips; less blood, bullets, and galactic aliens. Release Date: July 15, 2008Interview Subject: Kristin Asleson McDonnellInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 20:45

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Jeanette Symons Founder and CEO, Industrious Kid Date: October 19, 2007 NCWIT Interview with Jeanette Symons BIO: Jeanette Symons was the founder, Chief Executive Officer of Industrious Kid, and mother of two. Prior to founding Industrious Kid, Ms. Symons co-founded Zhone Technologies, a telecommunications company that builds "last mile" access solutions, where she served as the company's Chief Technology Officer and Vice President, Engineering. Prior to Zhone, Ms. Symons was Chief Technical Officer and Executive Vice President of Ascend Communications, Inc, which Ms. Symons co-founded, from January 1989 until June 1999 when the company was purchased by Lucent Technologies. In addition, Ms. Symons was a software engineer at Hayes Microcomputer, a modem manufacturer, where she developed and managed its ISDN program. Ms. Symons holds a B.S. in Systems Engineering from the University of California at Los Angeles. We are deeply saddened by Jeanette's tragic death in a small plane crash on Friday, February 1, 2008. She was a true technology pioneer and we hope her life will continue to inspire others. Lee Kennedy: Hi, this is Lee Kennedy, a board member for the National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. This is part of a series of interviews that we are having with fabulous entrepreneurs, women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors and all of whom have just great stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs. With me I have Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi, Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi. Boy, it's really great to be here today. Lee: So tell us a little bit about w3w3.com. Larry: Well, we are a web‑based Internet radio show. We really started in '96 with full time in '98. This has been probably the most exciting series that we have had, so many neat entrepreneurs going through all different types of things. I have a feeling that Jeanette is going to have a great story today, too. Lee: Great. And we also have with us Lucy Sanders who is the CEO for NCWIT. Hi, Lucy. Lucy Sanders: Hello. How are you? Lee: Great. So, why don't we go ahead and just get right to it. Today we are interviewing Jeanette Symons. Jeanette is the Co‑founder and CEO of Industrious Kid. Hi, Jeanette. Jeanette Symons: Hi. Thanks for having me today. Lee: Sure. So, Jeanette, why don't you start off and tell us a little bit about Industrious Kid? Jeanette: Industrious Kid was actually started to develop web sites for kids. What happened was a couple of years ago my daughter, who is seven, actually came home and said, "Mom, I want to make a MySpace profile." Needless to say, I panicked and ended up setting up a server where they had my kids and the neighbors had their own social network in my closet, literally. We went from there to actually creating a social network for kids where they could have the same safety on the Internet that we actually provided in the closet at the time. Lucy: Wow. I'd say that's one special kid that gets to come home and tell mom what kind of company to start next. Jeanette: It's gone to their heads a little bit. Lucy: That's pretty special. Lee: And also imbee.com; that's your social networking site? Jeanette: That's correct. The social networking site itself is imbee.com, and Industrious Kid is the name of the company. Lee: OK. And I see imbee.com won a Web 2.0 award this year. Jeanette: Absolutely. It's exciting. We are really making these strides and have kids interact with each other and learn to use the Internet in a positive way. We are really enjoying it. This is a company that we started because we wanted to, because it was fun and it's really been exciting all the way along. Lee: Great. Lucy: Well, so now maybe you all think I'm a kid and sometimes I am a kid at heart, but I went over to imbee.com, started playing around, making a baseball card, doing the things that I wanted to do. As a technologist I had to wonder about the technology that you are employing on that site. It is very sophisticated. Jeanette: Well, thanks. It is interesting. I have been building the infrastructure for the Internet for over 20 years now and really hadn't done anything in the way of card sense since the very early days. It's fun. We actually built on open source. We built on Drupal which you can actually go to, download and have a social networking site up in a matter of days. From there we've just added more and more kid centered features to it. It's fun and it's very incremental and dynamic. Lucy: It is a lot of fun. On that note and getting to the first question around technology, as a technologist what technologies do you see on the horizon as being particularly important? Jeanette: I think the biggest thing that's driven us for at least for about 20 years if not longer and then I think will for at least the next 20 years if not longer ‑ it's all about communication. It's what's changing the most and what's driving the most. We talk about the simple evolutions of the telephone and the way we are using them, but what's so amazing to me when I watch is how differently the next generation communicates than we do, even electronically. As adults, we tend to communicate via electronic mail, via personal or group communications that are relatively structured. When I look at the next generation, they're not patient enough for email; they look at me like I'm crazy to waste my time sending them an email message they may not look at till tonight. They want a text message or an instant message. If they want to say something to a group of friends, that just post it on their profile. So the way in which we communicate is changing over time and changing generation to generation. And that's what's really neat. I don't know where it'll be another five or 10 years from now, but it is fun to watch. Lucy: That's really interesting when you think about it, because it's just a cross‑generational difference in the way people are communicating. Larry: That's right. One of the things that we're also curious about ‑ we have a number of young people that are listening to the shows, sometimes their parents tell them about it, because it's so interesting hearing how people like you, an entrepreneur, does what you do. But we kind of wanted to know: why did you become an entrepreneur, and what is it about entrepreneurship that makes you tick? Jeanette: Well, I think the why is because, a long time ago, when I was relatively young, I thought I could do it better. I didn't want to work for someone else. I thought I could do it better. My ideas were better. I could do something better. I think, after a lot of hard work and a lot of years as an entrepreneur, I realize that it's not that easy to do a better job. I really learned how hard it is to do better than average. But it's really fun trying. What do I really love, and why do I keep doing it ‑ this is my third company, and I doubt it's my last ‑ is because there's no greater feeling than creating something from nothing. And that's the products you create. It's watching the people grow. It's creating value within the company. You're really, as an entrepreneur, making something from nothing in so many different ways, and I think that's what makes it really exciting. Lucy: So, Jeanette, that kind of brings us to the next question. When you think about getting into technology and the career path you took, who influenced you, or who were your role models or mentors? Jeanette: I think I got started in technology, really, because I got offered a job writing software that paid $1,000 a month, which was more than I could get with anything else as a student. I had no idea how to do it. I didn't try to get into technology. It was just a lot of money for me at the time. Lucy: That's great. Jeanette: It wasn't a big plan. I always loved math. I always loved science. I had no idea about computers and technology at that point in time. So I really got into it then. And I think it's no different than the excitement of starting a company. As an engineer, it's that sense of creating. It's that sense that you made something that you can put your name on that you can be proud of. And it really is one project at a time ‑ one company, one project, one thing at a time ‑ where you really get to create something. And I think that's what really hooked me, once I got started. Lucy: Were there any role models or mentors along the way? Jeanette: I think one of the most frustrating things, for me, is that I kept looking for a role model and looking for a mentor and looking for someone, especially as I started to become more successful, and I really struggled with it. I was younger than many of the other people starting companies at the time. There were very few women involved in starting companies at the time and having had been successful at it. And I really spent a long time being really frustrated that there weren't people that I thought I could go and emulate. It took me, actually, quite a while to kind of accept that, "Hey, it doesn't matter. You're not going to copy anybody. Get on with life and do what's fun." But it took me a long time to accept that I had to do what I wanted to do and not worry about copying somebody or emulating somebody. Lucy: I think that's a great answer. And I want to also kind of link it back to something you said a minute ago around that it's often very hard to do something better, to have that great entrepreneurial idea and push it across the finish line, and along the way, there are challenges to overcome. And so we'd really like to know the toughest thing that you've ever done in your career, and why it was so hard. Jeanette: I think, unfortunately, that's the easiest answer...The hardest thing to ever do in building a company, in any way, is to lay people off. As with grown companies, even really successful companies, there's a time you've got to lay people off because of the business cycle or whatever. And no matter what the circumstances is, that, I think, is one of the hardest things to do. The second hardest thing: while I started three companies, one of them, I'd say, I walked away from before I was done. The company still was in a growing and struggling phase, and I felt it was time to move on and walk away from the company. And I think that was probably, emotionally, one of the hardest things I've ever done. Larry: I must say, that's probably one of the most common mistakes that many founding people do is they keep on long after they should have left. That's really a strength on your part. Jeanette: Well, thank you. It didn't feel like it at the time. Larry: I bet not. Lucy: That is a hard judgment, though. When is it time to leave? Larry: Mmhmm. It is. Jeanette: Exactly. And we always want to be the one. It's so tempting, especially when you start something, to feel like you need to be the one to finish it, that you need to almost be the hero that makes it successful. Accepting that you're not is just so tough. It's one of those very lonely decisions. Larry: I think you're wonderful. I'm proud you. Now, speaking of that type of thing, if you were, right now, sitting down with a young potential entrepreneur, what kind of advice would you give them about entrepreneurship? Jeanette: I think the real answer ‑ and it's easy to say, it's harder to do. And that is that you've really got to follow what you believe. You can learn from others. You can listen to others. You're going to get a lot of advice, a lot of suggestions, people telling you to do things, how you're doing them, telling you to do differently. But at the end of the day, you've got to do exactly what you believe in. And you won't succeed in creating something great and something that you're really proud of unless you stick to what you know are your core values. And there are so many people that want to push you in different directions, want to change the company, change the product, and change the financing. You've got to really stick with what you know and you believe. Lucy: That's really good advice. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: Sort of along that note, earlier in the interview, you said that you thought you could do things better and you liked creating and building things. So, when you think about getting through all the tough times, what personal characteristics do you think have given you the advantages as an entrepreneur? Jeanette: I think one of the most important things to really get to success is that you've got to have a willingness to fail. You've got to accept that, you know what? Everything you do isn't going to be perfect. You're going to make mistakes. You've got to be able to say, "Oops, I made a mistake" and move forward. You've got to be willing to let little things fail, big things fail, and all sorts of things, in the big picture, to get to success. If you're not willing to take the risk that you're willing to fall through on, you're not going to ever get the big win. So you've got to really be willing to kind of accept that this time might not be it, but there will be a time that will be. Lucy: And do you have examples that happened in your career when there was failure that happened and you guys learned a ton, maybe one of those moments; that was a big turning point in the company? Jeanette: Now, there's so many that it's hard to pick one out. But I think one of the things that we've done a couple of times is we've built the product, we've stood behind it, we've been proud of it, and then realized that, oops, it's not the way people want it. And being willing to do that, and then stop and say, "You know what? We're going to do the right thing going forward." We've lost investors in those decisions a couple of times. They used to say they've regretted it each time... Lucy: I love that. Larry: Yeah. Jeanette: I mean, I remember, 20 years ago, when we changed our company from being a digital telephony company to deciding to build infrastructure for this weird thing called the Internet, we fought tooth and nail. Nobody, none of our investors wanted to back it. They thought it was silly. How would this Internet thing work? There was so much more revenue if you stuck to traditional things. We lost supporters along the way. We're pleased to say those supporters are eating their words. The Internet grew. We had to take a big risk ‑ that now, of course, seems obvious, in hindsight, but at the time, didn't‑‑to say, "We're going to drop what we're doing. We'll see the growth. We're going to take a risk and build something new and different." Larry: Yeah. I'm sitting here kind of groaning because, internally, Pat and I, we had a terrestrial radio show, "Business Talk, " and I made, in 1996, the prediction that the Internet was a fad and would go away soon. So I wish I had known you. Jeanette: You were right. You just have to wait about another 100 years. You have to be patient, Larry. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: Your timing was wrong. Larry: Yeah, timing... Lee: You're still right. Lucy: Yeah, you're still right. Larry: Now, you're a mother of two. You fly in your own Lear jet, from time to time, to conferences and so on. And then, of course, the other thing is that, between your children, your family, and your growing business, how do you bring about kind of the balance to all of this? Jeanette: The answer to that is kids take care of it for me. Larry: Whoa! Jeanette: I was told before I had kids that I was not at all good at balance and I was workaholic that didn't do enough different things. I don't think that's true, but my friends all think it's true. It's just so great and so much fun to do things with my kids, that they keep me home on the weekends. They keep me doing things and being outside and being active. So for me, my kids are my solution, and it's just a lot of fun. Lucy: Well, we've got a nice little airport here by Boulder. You could come see us. Jeanette: I could. I do have that advantage. People go, "Oh, so you just love to fly." And I've got to say, I do. It's one of the most just relaxing things there are. But what it really is ‑ and people make fun of me - is if you go into my airplane, it looks a lot more like a minivan, stacked with stickers and snacks and books and activities and such in the back. The beauty of flying a plane is that it gives me and my family incredible freedom. So I can be in any city in the country in a meeting on Friday morning and home playing with my kids Friday night. Lucy: It's an important thing to balance. Larry: You got it. Wow. Jeanette: We got it. So everybody needs a plane. Lucy: I believe that you're our first pilot that we have interviewed. Well, you have started three companies. You've said that you doubt this one is your last. So, why don't you tell us what you see in the future? What's next for you? Give us some top‑secret stuff. Jeanette: Oh, gosh. You know what? I don't know. I will tell you that, for a very long time, I worried so much about, "OK, now that I'm successful, what am I supposed to do?" Almost like there has to be a road map: "Build successful company, go do blank." And I worried so much that I was doing the right thing next. It's amazing how stressful that became. There has to be an answer. Where do I find the answer? And I finally got it licked. I do what I enjoy. I love building the company I'm building. I love where I'm at today. I have no idea what's next. I have no idea whether we'll be building this company for another five years, another 10 years, another 20 years. I don't know what's next. But I know it'll be interesting, it'll be fun, and if not, then it won't last long and we'll move on. Lucy: That's a great answer. Larry: Yeah, I'll say. Hat's off to Imbee and Lear jets. Lucy: Well, thank you very much, Jeanette. We really appreciated talking to you. Lee: Thanks so much. Jeanette: Thank you. Larry: Thank you. This was great. And by the way, you listeners out there, make sure you pass this interview along, because they can listen to it 24/7, download it as a podcast, and what else could we ask? Lucy: Well, we should remind everybody what site to go to for the podcast. You can get them at w3w3.com or at ncwit.org. Larry: There you go. Thanks, Jeanette. Lucy: Thank you, Jeanette. Jeanette: Thank you. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Jeanette SymonsInterview Summary: NOTE: We are deeply saddened by Jeanette's tragic death in a small plane crash on Friday, February 1, 2008. She was a true technology pioneer and we hope her life will continue to inspire others. For Jeanette Symons, motherhood proved to be good for business. Her kids helped her come up with the idea for her award-winning social networking site, imbee.com. Release Date: October 19, 2007Interview Subject: Jeanette SymonsInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 17:16

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Selina Tobaccowala Senior VP of Product and Technology, Ticketmaster Europe Date: July 30, 2007 Lee Kennedy: Hi, this is Lee Kennedy and I am on the Board of Directors for the National Center of Women and Information Technology or NCWIT and this is part of a series of interviews that we are having with fabulous entrepreneurs. Women who have started IT companies in a variety of sectors all of whom have just fabulous stories to tell us about being entrepreneurs. With me is Larry Nelson from W3W3.com. Hi Larry, How are you.? Larry Nelson: I'm fantastic, and I'm real excited. Again this is another wonderful interview you guys have lined up. That's super. And W3W3.com we're a web‑based Internet radio show. We podcast and blog and everything else, and this is right up our alley. Lee: Great, and just to get right with it we are interviewing Selina Tobaccowala. Selina has a really interesting background. Selina was a Stanford grad and right out of school started Evite, which I think everybody in the universe knows about, and if you've ever been invited to a party or an event. She is currently working at Ticketmaster. So Selina why don't you start and tell us a little bit about your background and what brought you to be in technology and an entrepreneur. Selina Tobaccowala: Thank you Lee and Larry. From my standpoint from entrepreneur and how I got into technology, it's very much being surrounded by technology my whole life. My father was in computers as well and started doing the initial punch card programming in the 70s and eventually got into management and so forth. And then going on to Standford where you are surrounded by technology everywhere. I mean, I graduated in 1998 and in that time frame there was Yahoo, Excite, and Apple. Everything was around us and everything was started by Stanford entrepreneurs. So being in computer science at Standford there was just so much opportunity to go and do something in technology, which was very exciting. Lee: Great. Larry: I can't help but ask this. You've kind of led into it already. Just for a little clarity, you were one of the co founders of Evite. Selina: Yes. Larry: And that is how you ended up where you're at now. Because I kind of went and checked you out online. You've got a very interesting product that you're working on there at Ticketmaster. I can't wait to see where you're going to be going next. [laughter] Larry: How did you first, you mentioned your father. I can remember punch cards. I was doing some work at a University back in Wisconsin. I dropped the basket, oh boy. What was that transition in terms of what you think is really cool today going on in technology? Selina: In terms of technology today, some of the stuff I find cool possibly being in Ticketmaster and being surrounded by music is all the conversions in devices especially around music. So just looking at the iPod and what it's been able to do, and some of the products surrounding that from iTunes to iLike is something that actually Ticketmaster has invested in. And it's just a great convergence of taking new music, all the new web technologies as far as taking consumer data, and being able to help you discover new music. But it's all really from a standpoint; those are some of the things that I find really interesting in today's pace. And it is really tying together all the devices if you look at Google Maps tying into the GPS on your phone so you always know where you are, and driving those things together. I just feel like right now we're in another interesting time where the hardware has been able to catch up with what people can do from the software perspective. And being on the software side, obviously I find that very exciting. Lee: So it sounds like you really love being on the leading edge of technology and integrating all the latest and greatest devices. When you think about your role as an entrepreneur, what is it that makes you enjoy being an entrepreneur? What about being an entrepreneur really makes you tick? Selina: I think the key for me, based on my personality. I like to really dig in and solve problems and looking out there in terms of business opportunities and then using technology or consumer problems that people actually have and then using technology to take advantage of them. When you look at everything in my history, it's all about consumer products and making it easier, using the web to make your life easier in an off line way. So whether that's sending invitations so you don't have to try and coordinate thirty people via phone and email to actually organize an event, and actually make that event happen. Or having people very easily get to a live show and at a fair price. From my perspective it's really about taking technology to make the consumer life easier, and I like that. And there is so many opportunities as technologies get better, consumers always have problems. Larry: Yeah it is. Let me ask this. Kind of going back in history because we're trying to get a feel of what really makes an entrepreneur and how this all comes about, one of the things that we've noticed that you and others have mentioned is people that are mentors to you, roll models. Who would somebody like that be in your life? Selina: I think I already mentioned a little bit, but definitely my father. He and my mom came over to the U.S. probably with not that many resources or opportunities that I had. And my dad started doing basic computer technology and in the end was managing quite a bit at EAS and then jumped into a startup, then did two startups after that. And watching, he jumped into a start up actually a year before I did at Evite and watching that and saying, I think I can do that too, and then encouraging me to do so. And graduating from Standford and seeing people take jobs at general consulting firms and saying don't worry about it. Take a risk, now's the time. To me that was really important to have that around. And again, just through silicon valley there are so many different mentors around, and people encouraging you to just try and jump into businesses and take a risk, and that it's OK to fail. Which I think is one of the key things about being an entrepreneur is that you're going to try things that are not going to work, whether it's a product that you're going to put out there. We had four products before we launched Evite and we tried a product and it didn't work. We built a new product and it didn't work, and it's a matter of testing what consumers respond to, then putting something out on the market that actually works. And I think that the U.S. And Silicon Valley specifically completely encourages that. Lee: It's really cool that your dad was one of your key mentors in life. I have to say that some of the other women that we interviewed talk about how their father was either an entrepreneur or technical or an engineer and how that played a big influence in their life. Selina: I think that if you're surrounded by it. One of the things I think is great about the National Center for Women is if you're surrounded by it and get involved in it early, you really have the likelihood to see the value in technology and bring it out there whether for consumers or businesses. Lee: So thinking about everything you've done in the last ten years or more. Starting a new company from scratch and now doing amazing things where you're at. What do you think is the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career? Selina: One of the things as an entrepreneur is that you're not always going to succeed in the way you want to succeed. And that's part of taking the risk and that's part of the excitement but at the same time it's not going to work out. Evite we did a lot of things right and we sold our product and people still use it. But we did hit the downturn in the 2001 time frame, and we had to downsize. That's something as a leader is really hard, because you put your time, and investment, and people, and they give their time and ideas and thoughts back to you and to the organization. And that always is one of the toughest things is that you know, fundamentally, if your business doesn't succeed to the degree, sometimes you need to let go parts of the team, and that's always going to be the toughest thing in any business. Larry: Yes. I have to tell our listeners, off‑line, just before we started, I asked Selina, "How come I only got three Evites this week?" And I said, "Was it a slow week?" She said, "Well, either that, or you have to get more friends." [laughs] Selina: [laughs] Larry: So anyhow, Selina, if you were sitting in front, right now, of a young person who was contemplating whether or not they wanted to become an entrepreneur, what advice would you give them? Selina: I mean, from my standpoint, as cheesy as it sounds, definitely go for it. [laughs] Larry: [laughs] Selina: But definitely, after that, it's really what I was saying a little bit before, which is you need to take risks. From my standpoint, it's prototype something as quickly in the marketplace as you can, see what's working, see what's not working; especially when you look at new technologies and web technologies. You can track everything. You can test everything. So you can get stats, see results, and then tweak, tweak, tweak. So it's very easy to sort of weed out stuff that's not working, try new things, and get it working and build a sustainable product. So, in terms of, again, that's more based on web technologies. It's harder to do if you're talking about hardware or physical goods. But the principle; being of prototype, get it out, market test it, and then keep building; is still the right thing. Larry: Great advice. Lucy Sanders: Well, Selina, one of the questions that we're always eager to ask is, with all the amazing things you've done, when you think about yourself, what personal characteristics do you think have given you any advantages as an entrepreneur? Selina: I actually would ask somebody else. [laughs] But I would say that, from my perspective, one of the keys is, actually, I'm not a very patient person. And although that might not be seen as a general advantage, it is sort of an impatience with the status quo, with what's out there, and being able to be curious and question and say, "Why are things working this way? How are things working?" So we constantly try to think about how to make it better: "How can I improve on what's there?" Whether that's in a small way, from a product perspective or a feature perspective, to actually say, "Is there a full business opportunity here?" It is probably, for me, the largest thing, from a personal characteristic standpoint. But I don't think there's anything that different in terms of besides the willingness to be able to take a risk. Lucy: Mm‑hmm. Great. Larry: Well put. Well put. I must say, being a serial entrepreneur myself, I can relate to that. Here's kind of a tricky thing. You're a hard worker. You love what you do. And of course, that's the good side. Well, you're a hard worker, and you like to do what do you do. How do you bring about the personal and professional balance in your life? Selina: [laughs] Larry: [laughs] Selina: A bad question when I'm at work at 7:15 at night. [laughs] [laughter] Selina: No. I'd say there's a couple of things, which is, even doing Evite, and we've been working intense hours‑‑every Friday, at least, Friday evening and Saturday, spending time with friends and being able to say, "I'm going to take out X time, and no matter what else is going on, spend time with other people." Because it does actually reinvigorate you, give you new ideas. And then another thing, for me, is I absolutely love to travel. And so it's really saying that taking, even if it's just one week out every year, but it is taking that time and actually going and seeing someplace new, because, again, I feel like really taking some time out to just go do that. And it does bring on new ideas, you do relax to a different degree, and your mind sort of refreshes. And I think that that's very important. And I'd say the last thing is I love to read, and every night, before I go to bed. It's like it takes your mind to a different space and does give that relaxation that you need. Lucy: Gosh, I think that's the best advice I've heard yet from anybody on how they get balanced. Yeah. Larry: Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Lucy: Because being an entrepreneur requires so much creativity, because you're always faced with new challenges... Selina: Yeah. And the thing is, if you don't get away from the day‑to‑day ever‑‑I live in London now, and one of the things is, no matter what else, I walk to work every morning. And it takes me about 35, 40 minutes, but it's like I'm walking through a park, and it's like it lets you actually think through everything. Even if it's just an hour here or there, taking the time out to refresh yourself, because you end up actually thinking through things more clearly and being more productive. Larry: You brought up London, and I have to ask this. Here we are, sitting in Boulder, Colorado... Selina: [laughs] Larry: Sunny skies, 80 degrees, gorgeous outside... Lucy: You rubbing it in, Larry? Larry: Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. Selina: [laughs] Larry: And I know it's evening there now, but what was it like earlier today in London? Selina: Well, actually, today was absolutely beautiful. [laughs] Lucy: We caught you on a good day! Larry: Oh, wow. What a setup! What a setup! Selina: Yes, it was. The summer months are generally just beautiful here. And as I said, I walk through the park with wildflowers... Lucy: Oh. Selina: And I was in Germany for work yesterday, so it's very easy to see new places. [laughs] Lucy: Well, the last question we have for you is‑‑you've already achieved so much at such a young age. What's next for you? Selina: As Larry said, the whole serial entrepreneur. One of the things, Evite got bought by the parent company, IAC. And I've been doing, to a certain degree, startups within IAC‑‑started a group at Ticketmaster first, then went on and started an online organization for Entertainment.com, and now came to Ticketmaster and doing European products and technology. But I think the next thing for me is I will get back that itch to do a startup from scratch, [laughs] and coming up that idea and finding the next thing. And for me, I love what I'm doing now. We're doing great things in terms of new products and launching it through the different European marketplaces. But I'd say, after Ticketmaster, it's definitely jumping back into a small organization. Larry: Oh, we just have to ask this. With your experience, and now your worldwide travels and involvement and all, what do you see, technology‑wise, that's coming down the pike that's going to make a big, sweeping difference to all of us? Selina: Oh, wow. That's a tough one. [laughs] But again, I don't see any single technology. And I think that that's the way I think. I don't see that, all of a sudden, everything's going to migrate to mobile phones, or there's going to be any single device or any single technology that's going to sort of change everything completely. I mean, there's a few of those that come up occasionally, like, obviously, adding search to the web changed it dramatically. But I do see that what you have today is finally, as I was saying before, the ability to suddenly drive everything to the web, from, rightly, with software applications that used to could only sit on your computer. I think, all of a sudden, you can be connected from everywhere, and you can get to everything from everywhere. And I think that just changes the mindset in terms of continually and always being able to access your information and, to a certain degree now, other people being able to access your information. And it changes the whole how anonymous you can be within an everyday life, and everybody's more connected and the web connects people, and so I do feel that more and more technologies are taking advantage of that. But it will change how people interact. Lucy: Yeah. There's definitely some exciting things. Larry: Are we going to follow up on this, Selina, or not? We can tell you're going to have a super, super career, and we definitely will follow you. Selina: Well, thank you. Thank you for taking your time as well. Lucy: Well, Selina, thank you so much. It's been wonderful learning more about you today. Remember, these podcasts will be on www.ncwit.org, as well as www.w3w3.com. Larry: That's it. Selina: Great. Lucy: Thanks, and pass these on to a friend. Selina: Thank you so much. Larry: See you soon. Lucy: Bye‑bye. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Selina TobaccowalaInterview Summary: When Selina Tobaccowala co-founded a little web company called Evite as a junior at Stanford, she was one of just 18 women majoring in computer science. Release Date: July 30, 2007Interview Subject: Selina TobaccowalaInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 16:05

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: An Interview with Kim Polese CEO, SpikeSource, Inc. Date: July 17, 2007 NCWIT Interview with Kim Polese BIO: Kim Polese is the Chairman at CrowdSmart and former CEO of SpikeSource, Inc., a software company based in Silicon Valley. The company is backed by venture firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers and has developed an advanced automated testing technology for certifying interoperability of open source software, creating a continual "UL"-style certification for Global 2000 companies that depend on open source software applications to run their core business operations. The automation enables the delivery of low-cost, high-quality software to a mass market, resulting in more affordable and dependable software applications for business of all sizes worldwide. Prior to joining SpikeSource in August 2004, Kim co-founded Marimba, Inc., a leading provider of systems management solutions, in 1996. Marimba was acquired by BMC Software in June 2004. Kim served as President, Chief Executive Officer, and Chairman of Marimba, leading the company through a successful public offering and to profitability in 2000. Before co-founding Marimba, Kim worked in software management at Sun Microsystems and was the original product manager for Java, leading its launch in 1995. Prior to joining Sun, Kim was with IntelliCorp Inc., consulting for Fortune 500 companies in the development of expert systems. Kim earned a Bachelor’s degree in Biophysics from the University of California, Berkeley and studied Computer Science at the University of Washington in Seattle. Kim serves on several boards, including the Silicon Valley Leadership Group, the University of California President's Board on Science and Innovation, UC Berkeley's College of Engineering, the Carnegie Mellon School of Computer Science, and the Global Security Institute. Lucy Sanders: Hi, this is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO of the National Center for Women in Information Technology. This interview is one in a series of interviews that we're doing with fabulous IT entrepreneurs. With me today are Larry Nelson and Lee Kennedy. Larry is CEO of w3w3.com, and Lee is an insulate director. Welcome, Larry and Lee. Larry Nelson: Well, thank you. That's so great being able to get together and help support this type of thing. The Heroes program is sponsored by NCWIT, wonderful. At w3w3.com we archive everything and we push it out. We have a large audience, and we're happy to be part of this. Lee Kennedy: Thanks, Lucy. I'm excited to be here and be part of the interview series. Lucy: Today we're interviewing Kim Polese. We're so excited, Kim, to have you on the call. Kim Polese: Thank you, delighted to be here. Lucy: I have to say that your career has been one that I think is just awesome. When I look back at some of the things you've been involved with for example Java. I remember when Sun released Java. Us techies at Bell Labs were pretty excited about that, because it really enabled the Internet to come alive. You could bring applications along with the static web pages. That was just tremendously thrilling. Then, when you moved over into Marimba, worked on push technology, again, we were all rather thrilled that we could have stuff come to our desktop without even asking for it. That's pretty amazing. And now you have a new company Spikesource is a couple of years old, is that right? Kim: Yes. Actually, it was founded in 2003 and I joined. It was an incubation project at Kline & Perkins, a venture firm here in Silicon Valley. I joined in the fall of 2004. Lucy: I just think you've been on the leading edge of all of these different trends in software and software development. Why don't you give the listeners a little bit of information about Spikesource? Kim: Sure. I'd be happy to. So, Spikesource, basically its mission is in a nutshell to democratize software, and do that by bringing open source software to a mass market. When I say "democratize software", I mean make software as low‑cost and as easy to maintain, to use as possible. Software's a wonderful thing; it powers all sorts of service and appliances, the world around use every day. But it's also really complicated both to develop, package, maintain and support. Open source has provided a wonderful new abundance, a new ecosystem of software applications, components and infrastructure. It is really totally changing the software industry in a variety of ways, and really accelerating innovation. Software is getting better faster. There are many more people who are banging on it and making it better every day. That's a wonderful thing. It's an exciting time to be in the software world. But there's also a challenge with abundance. Businesses that have been using open source find very quickly that they get into a lot of overhead time and cost in maintaining open source application. The applications typically consist of dozens or hundreds of different open source components, all of which need to be updated, maintained and made to work together, continually integrated and tested. That's a huge problem. So, what Spikesource is doing is really helping that problem through automation. We're automating specifically the process of maintaining that software and ensuring that the software applications continue to work, stay up and running and are free of viruses, and so forth. It's really making the process of maintaining open source software invisible to the user. We're using very interesting approaches in computer science and automating the build test patch process, and creating an automatic test framework for basically packaging up, distributing, supporting and maintaining these open source applications. We're bringing to market a variety of open source applications. Basically taking many of the best applications out there on the Internet, email, content management, business intelligence, CRM and so forth, and offering those as packaged applications to business of all sizes. There's a low‑cost subscription maintenance stream along with it. So, in this way when I said "democratizing software", again, it's really about making software much easier to buy, to use, and to have supported at a much lower cost. That's now all possible because of open source and because of the new technologies that we're working on and others are participating in as well in innovating, automating and maintaining the software. Lucy: I think that the technologies involved with software engineering are some of the most complex. No question. And so, I can only imagine that the technologies that you're using at Spikesource are pretty advanced. Kim: Yes. Lucy: For sure. And that gets me to the first question that we wanted to ask you. In addition to some of the technologies that you're using today at Spikesource, what other technologies do you see on the horizon that you find particularly cool? Kim: Well, the open source world is really where most of the most interesting innovation is happening, in my view, in software today. That's because of the power of collaboration. You take, for example, virtualization. Virtualization, or virtualization software, there's a huge amount of innovation happening there. You see a lot of not only developers all over the world who are contributing to open source virtualization technologies, but also big companies that are standardizing on open source and using it to drive greater value in their hardware platforms. So, to me in general the most exciting place to be in software today is in the open source world. In virtually every category there's tremendous innovation happening and really a new generation of software is being developed. And there are a lot of very important supporting technologies and underlying infrastructure that's also helping make this happen. A lot of the service‑oriented architecture, the web services, the easy to use now APIs that make it possible to put pieces of software together more easily, and new techniques like Agile programming and so forth to make it easier to build software faster... But so much of that, again, really does come out of the open source world. We're finding that the open source model of building software is becoming more prevalent even within companies and across companies in vertical industries such as financial services and retail. Companies are now beginning to collaborate on creating applications that they can share to make their respective businesses more efficient. Lucy: In fact, I'm on a commission looking at the R&D ecosystem for IT. We were at Harvard and we listened to a researcher not too long ago who was studying open source and the movement of companies into open source. It was pretty interesting how that platform is really emerging. How did you first get into technology, Kim? Kim: I was actually a girl geek. I grew up in Berkeley, California and I was fortunate to really be exposed to science at a very early age. I started entering science fairs as a kid in elementary school and just found that I loved the idea of creating something new and exploring, and testing the limits of what was possible. Then, I found a place called the Lords Hall of Science, which is a public science museum here in the Bay Area. I went up there, again, as a kid in elementary school and started playing on the computers. There was a program called Eliza which was an early artificial intelligence software application that was running on the computers there. It was kind of like an online psychotherapist, and I really loved playing on the computer that ran Eliza and trying to get Eliza to go into a loop or act like a computer, again, see the limits of what was possible. So, all of that sparked my curiosity, my interest in not only science but specifically computers and software. I ultimately ended up getting a degree in biophysics, but at Berkeley I started to get more and more into computer programming and software development as an undergrad. That increasingly became where my interests were directed. Lucy: That's really cool. Kim, tell us why you're an entrepreneur and what it is about entrepreneurship that really makes you tick. Kim: Well, I've always loved creating new things. I love inventing and coming up with a new idea, running with it and seeing what's possible. There's nothing more exciting than setting out with a whole team of people on a mission, climb a mountain and actually doing it together, making it happen. So, I think it's the creativity. It's the element of being able to chart your own course, come up with your own idea. It's the challenge of making that idea actually into a successful business, which is two very distinct elements to building a successful company in the technology area. One is coming up with a great technology, but the other is actually making it work in the economic sense and the sense of the market acceptance. That turned out to be a whole separate creative process. All of that is very challenging. I love a challenge. I love climbing mountains and scaling new heights, because it's just fun when you get there and it's fun along the way. So, I found that that was just something I gravitated towards. I think it's just something that's been inside me forever. Lucy: And it's a pretty good view when you get to the top. Larry: I'll say. Kim, I can't help but reflect back. Quite some time ago, did I hear that you were one of those early radicals that were pushing free and open source software? Kim: Well, I did grow up in Berkeley, it's true. And I was hanging out at Cal when Bill Joy was a grad student. So, I do have it probably in my DNA by now. But I didn't actually get to immerse myself in open source until I joined Spikesource in 2004 and really started doing it as full‑time and really wrapping my head around the whole open source world and building a business. Larry: You've done a wonderful job. Now, you mentioned Bill Joy. We interview him probably five, six, seven years ago. Along the line, did you have any particular mentor, or support person or support group that really helped along the way? Kim: Well, I was very fortunate to work at a great company for seven years, Sun Microsystems. Sun was full of very bright I'd say demanding, people where there was a bar that was set high and you had to achieve more than you thought you were capable of. I look at the management team, the founders of Sun, Scott, Scott McNealy, Bill Joy, Vinod Khosla and Andy Bechtolsheim. They really were a great inspiration to me, each of them. Also, to me, at that time in the '80s as I was developing my career, Carol Vartz, who was a senior executive at Sun at the time, I really looked up to her. Sandy Kurtzig, Heidi Roizen, these were women who were really leading the way in building companies and proving that women could achieve great things in technology and software. So, I was surrounded I guess by many inspirational leaders, and I learned what I could from each of them and then really molded that into what I decided to do next, how I developed my career. Lucy: Kim, you've been in the thick of Silicon Valley and all the changes that have taken place over the last 10, 20 years, and you've had such an exciting career. When you look back, what's the toughest thing that you've had to do in your career? Kim: Well, there are many challenges in building a company. I'd say probably the toughest thing as a manager is letting someone go. It's actually making a decision that you know is right for the company and right for ultimately that individual, but always a tough thing to do. I'd say that's probably the top of the list, and that's just one of those management challenges that everyone has to deal with at a certain point. So, that's on the not so fun part. There are also challenges just inherently in building a business. I'd say the other thing that I have faced repeatedly, but actually is kind of a fun challenge, is the need to adapt to change. When you're starting a company and you're in a new market, you've got a new idea, it's unproven, there's precedent, you can't become attached to that one plan that you're going to execute on it. There's always going to be a reason why it doesn't exactly turn out that way, another twist in the path, another unexpected obstacle, but then unexpected opportunity at the same time. And so, adapting to change and being comfortable with change on a daily basis is something that can real tough at first, but once you get used to it, it's actually exhilarating. You love the challenge of being able to rise to the occasion and adjust course, change course as needed, and still keep your eye on the ultimate goal that you're headed towards. It's just that the path along the way is different from what you thought it would be. I'd say that's a more fun, tough thing that I've faced in business. Lucy: Well, and in face you ultimately get to the place where you really enjoy change. You wouldn't want to be working in something where that wasn't part of what you did every day. It really becomes part of the challenge. I think that's wonderful advice. You can share with us, a bit more advice that you might give to young people about entrepreneurship if they were sitting in the room with you right now. Kim: Sure. Well, there is a lot to say. If I were to boil it down to some of the things that come to mind first, it really has to do what I was just talking about. You might have a great idea, but you can't forget the market that you are launching it into, and all of the other constituents that need to contribute to the success of what you are setting out to do. For example, you may be launching a product in the market; the most brilliant product that anyone has developed or thought of but it turns out that it's just too early. A good example of this is I worked in artificial intelligence, AI, software back in the 80's. We built a fantastic software system that was an expert system, but the hardware requirements were prohibitive in terms of cost and just the overall expense of delivering an expert system. You had $50000.00+ computers required, and ultimately there wasn't a mass market for that back in the 80's. The software wasn't ready for the environment around it that it needed to rely on, so for entrepreneurs I'd say don't get too enamored of your idea. Make sure that you see the full picture and that you find a way to make it palatable in the market today and then chart a path to where you ultimately believe you can go and what the ultimate end goal is. But, don't be too wrapped up with getting to the end goal right off the bat. So, that's one thing. The other thing I'd say is get comfortable with saying "no" because as an entrepreneur you want to say "yes" to every possibility and every potential customer and partner that comes along. There is a temptation to do that, especially early on. You have to have the discipline to say, "You know what? We'd love to deliver this product into both the enterprise market and the consumer market, and we know the software is capable of working for both markets, but we're just going to focus on the enterprise market". That's the first step. From there we can build a bigger company and ultimately get to the broader market. Saying "no", we had to do this at Marimba, a decision we made very early on to focus on the enterprise and not the consumer market. It turned out to be the best decision we made, but it was a very tough one at the time because I knew we could do anything. We could absolutely serve a broader market, but you have to have the discipline to know what you are capable of and take one step at a time. Lucy: That's some very sage advice. What personal characteristics do you think have given you advantages as an entrepreneur? Kim: Probably the greatest one is persistence. It's never losing sight of that goal that you are charging toward and never losing faith that you will achieve that goal and being totally flexible and able to deal with any obstacle that comes along. Whether it's an obstacle in the market, a challenge with the team, whatever it happens to be, never giving up, never ever, ever, ever giving up. If you have that, you'll find a way to get to where you are going no matter what. I think that's probably for every successful entrepreneur you will find that that is the primary characteristic that made them. Lucy: In fact, we're finding that with this series of interviews. I believe that one of the people we interviewed a few weeks ago said there is this line between persistence and pesky. And it's OK to cross over it from time to time. Kim: Yeah, that's probably true. Lucy: I want to switch a minute into this issue of balance. I know there is a lot written about work and personal balance, and so we just wanted to ask, how do you bring balance into your life? Kim: Well, that's a great question. One thing I've always made sure to do is to continue to pursue the things I love to do in the rest of my life. One thing I love is dance. I've always done that, and I still do ballet and jazz. I've done it since I was a kid and will never stop. I find that it's tremendous; it's literally all balance. It's a great counterpoint, too, to do what I do all day long. It's also requires great focus and attention, and you just can't sort of space out while you're learning a piece of choreography. So, that's one thing I love. I love also mountain biking and getting out and just charging up a mountain. So, those are the things I have always done and will continue to do. I find also that the mind‑body balance is really important. If you are physically fit your mind is much sharper and you are able to run a marathon in business as well as physically. So, that's one way. The other is just time for family and friends. I always make time for family and friends. It's not enough ever, but you have to stand back every so often and think about what's really important in life. Those connections and relationships are really more important than anything, so I try and not always succeed as well as I'd like. But, I try as much as possible to keep that at the forefront, too. Larry Nelson: Kim, I want to thank you for what you've shared so far. It's easy to see by the discussion here why you were chosen as one of the heroes, that's for sure. Now, you have already achieved a great deal, and I know you are going to take Spike Source to another level. In addition to Spike Source, what is your next thing? What are you going to do next? Kim: Well, one thing I've always done is actually not plan too far in advance. Lucy: That's a good idea. Kim: The reason is sort of tongue‑in‑cheek, but I find that serendipity is a wonderful thing. I am in the most dynamic, exciting industry and, I think, place for the area and the world. I am surrounded by brilliant, creative people, and that network is ever expanding so I know that whatever I do next it will evolve from creating something new together with a team of people and doing our best to make an impact in some positive way in the world. I personally would like to find a way to make an impact in the world that goes beyond my industry. I haven't quite figured out when and how and what that will be, but that's something that I'd like to do in my life. I'm sure that the path will appear as it always has. As long as I follow my passion and surround myself with people that I love working with and respect and appreciate, I know that life will unfold in wonderful ways. I have faith. Lucy: I think that's just really well said. I'm just sitting here thinking you are just one of the top web entrepreneurs of our age. It's wonderful. We are so thrilled to have talked to you. Kim: Thank you. I am more than honored to be part of this series. Thank you. Larry: A couple of words that stick out in my mind, too, in addition to hear all this democratized, open source and serendipity. Lucy: That's great. And see I'm a techie so what stands out for me, open source, Java. So, Kim, thank you, thank you very much. Kim: Thank you. Lucy: We appreciate your joining us. I want to remind listeners where these podcasts can be found at www.ncwit.org and also at w3w3.com. Please do pass these along to friends who might want to listen. Kim, thanks again. Kim: Thank you, my pleasure. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Kim PoleseInterview Summary: Kim Polese has technology -- and innovation -- in her blood. Ever wondered who coined the term "Java"? That was Kim. Release Date: July 17, 2007Interview Subject: Kim PoleseInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry Nelson, Lee KennedyDuration: 20:04