POPULARITY
7 episodes with mucuna
2 episodes with mucuna
2 episodes with mucuna
2 episodes with mucuna
Mit welchen Nootropica holt man sich Extra-Antrieb, wenn's zählt? Eine Folge über Dopamin-Abbauhemmer, stotterstartende Oldtimer und Stefans neuen liebsten Morgenstack: Uridin plus Kaffee plus Rhodiola Rosea, außerdem besorgt er sich Citicolin. Zum angesprochenen Event am Krallerhof (inklusive Käsebuffet) geht es hier. Methylenblau in Pharmaqualität gibt es hier. Den Dopamin-Vorläufer L-Tyrosin gibt es hier. L-Dopa ist in Deutschland und Österreich verschreibungspflichtig. Eine natürliche Quelle von L-Dopa ist Mucuna pruriens (Juckbohne), ein entsprechendes Extrakt gibt es hier. Piracetam gibt es (nur auf Rezept) zum Beispiel hier. Modafinil gibt es (nur auf Rezept) zum Beispiel hier. Eine gute Quelle für Rhodiola Rosea ist diese hier. Hochwertiges Ashwagandha gibt es hier. Uridin Monophosphat gibt es hier. CDP Cholin aka Citicolin gibt es hier. Kreatin gehört zur Biohacking-Grundausstattung. Ein gutes Produkt ist zum Beispiel dieses. L-Carnitin kann, wenn es in größeren Mengen und regelmäßig supplementiert wird, Schäden am Mikrobiom des Darms verursachen, Allicin kann diese Schäden theoretisch abwenden. (Das Ganze hat mit TMA und TMAO zu tun.) Es gibt dazu noch keine ernsthaften klinischen Studien. Man kann es mit Allicin also mal versuchen, und mit Carnitin nicht übertreiben. Carnitin gibt es hier. Und Allicin gibt es hier. Zu Olga Winklers Re-Gen in Salzburg geht es hier. Zum Glücksaffen geht es hier.
Confira mais um episódio do PFC Debate. Falamos de todos os assuntos possíveis, sobre corrida ou não, de um jeito que você não vai acreditar. SEJA MEMBRO DO CANAL!!! Começou o ano; Cólica; Estalo para a maratona; Acessórios de corrida que poderiam funcionar melhor; Bicarbonato de Sódio; Despachar mala; Shots matutinos; Dicas para Chicago; Spirulina, Ashwagandha, Long Jack, Mucuna, Maca Eeruana e Tribulus Terrestre. Tem isso e muito mais no cardápio variado com tudo que o PFC Debate sempre oferece. Escute, informe-se e divirta-se. Lista de casamento Enio e Andressa Compre o livro da Camila Siga quem faz o PFC Debate: Enio, Gigi, Marcos, Camila, Duda, Ana e Thainara. SEJA MEMBRO DO CANAL NO YOUTUBE Use nossos cupons de desconto: KEEP RUNNING BRASIL - PFC FOCO RADICAL - PFC10 CARAMELO - PFC10 CLUBE DE AUTORES - PFC10
Video version of the podcast is here. This may not be a "hot take" with regards to supplements, but we will be talking about some cool beans. Mucuna pruriens, also known as the velvet bean, is a natural source of levodopa, a key treatment for Parkinson's Disease (PD). Research shows it may reduce PD symptoms and have a quicker onset and longer duration than standard medications like carbidopa/levodopa (C/L). However, it can cause more side effects, particularly with prolonged use. Unlike C/L, Mucuna lacks carbidopa, which helps reduce side effects. While it has potential benefits, dosage standardization is a concern, and more research is needed. Always consult a doctor before using it. If you want to try for yourself this is one possibility from Nutricost via Amazon and is highly rated: https://amzn.to/3ZqSyn6 This is the link to Dr. Zayas' full video on Mucuna: https://youtu.be/rY1ycuJgSII?si=hAUXwcrqqEuP3qti Help to support this podcast and our efforts to educate the world about Parkinson's Disease and get access to personalized content: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0g3abv8hkaqZbGD8y1dfYQ/join https://www.patreon.com/pdeducation Please be sure to give support to our channel sponsors: Comfort Linen: https://comfortlinen.com/PARKINSONSDISEASEEDUCATION (15% off entire order when applying the code PARKINSONSDISEASEEDUCATION at checkout) Kizik Shoes: https://kizik.sjv.io/q4y1RL Orthofeet: https://lvnta.com/lv_0Pn1TAIM5VDdOHxlYG If you have products that you would like for me to review on the channel please send them here: Parkinson's Disease Education P.O. Box 1678 Broken Arrow, OK 74013 Medical Disclaimer All information, content, and material of this video is for informational purposes only and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis, and/or medical treatment of a qualified physician or healthcare provider. Affiliate disclaimer: Keep in mind that links used for recommended products may earn me a commission when you make purchases. However, this does not impact what products I recommend. If I recommend a specific product it is because it has been vetted by myself or based on personal use. #parkinson #parkinsonsawareness #parkinsonsdisease #parkinsons #mucuna #homeopathy #supplements #levodopa #dopamine
O Papo de Prateleira conversa com Lucas Perin, Gerente de Marketing da Corteva Agriscience, em Ribeirão Preto (SP), no lançamento do herbicida Linear, molécula exclusiva e inédita da Corteva Agriscience, lançado para o combate eficiente da Mamona e Mucuna. O produto já está em todos os canais de comercialização no Brasil e precisa estar no radar dos canaviais neste momento de início de nova safra da cultura. Mais informações: https://www.corteva.com.br/
O Papo de Prateleira conversa com Tainá Sipos, Líder de Marketing de Cana da Corteva Agriscience , em Ribeirão Preto (SP). Ela fala sobre o herbicida Linear, molécula exclusiva e inédita da Corteva Agriscience, lançado para o combate eficiente da Mamona e Mucuna. E do trabalho incessante de pesquisa e desenvolvimento da empresa para novas tecnologias, direcionadas a todas as culturas, de olho nas necessidades do produtor rural brasileiro. Mais informações: https://www.corteva.com.br/
In this episode, Vaidya Mishra discusses the medicinal properties of the mucuna plant directly from the Sanskrit ancient text, highlighting its balancing properties over the five vata subdoshas. His distinguished disciple and long-time collaborator, Dr. Lisa Rasking, shares her research findings on modern science corroborating the accuracy of the ancient Sutras.
Another episode of Herbal Highlights with Angela Bewick and host Malcolm Saunders. Every week, the pair meet up to talk about what is going on behind the scenes at the shop. Today, Angela and Malcolm dive in to quite a few flowers you will find in the shop, and their myriad ways they can help. Think of these herbs as ways to bring the sunshine in! There's a new Inner Sunshine herbal prep in store - a syrup made up of herbal components including Saffron, St John's Wort, Mucuna and a bit of sea salt. Get to know the herbs behind this special in-store-only syrup! The first herbal term of the week is sativa. What do you think this latin word means? Malcolm dives in around the 9 minute mark. The second one is from Angela, and it's trophorestorative. Learn the etymology of the word in today's episode! This week, Angela and Malcolm check in again with a California Poppy preparation they have had brewing in the shop for a bit. Learn all about this nervine tonic and appreciate some of its benefits, especially when it comes to pain relief. Make sure to follow our podcast to get notified of when new episodes are available. Or better yet, come visit us in the NW of Calgary, in the heart of Bowness. #lightcellarpodcast #podcast #subscribenow #stjohnswort #saffron #mucuna #innersunshine #californiapoppy
Tato 171. epizoda se věnuje Mucuna Pruriens. Jak vám může pomoci se zvýšením dopaminu, zlepšením nálady, snížením stresu a mnoho dalšího? Jak ji správně dávkovat? Na co si dát pozor? Toto a mnohem více se dozvíte v při poslechu! Věříme, že si tuto epizodu užijete! :) Naši tvorbu můžeš podpořit nákupem suplementů Za Hranicí Fitness, využitím slevového kódu při nákupu u našich partnerů, nebo také sdílením, či recenzí na Apple Podcastech. Děkujeme za jakoukoliv formu podpory! Suplementy Za Hranicí Fitness najdeš na: ZAHRANICIFITNESS.cz/ESHOP Na celém e-shopu můžeš využít 5% slevový kód - ZAHRANICI5 Partneři podcastu MITOLIGHT.cz - 10% slevový kód - ZAHRANICI10 Brainmarket.cz - 10% slevový kód - ZAHRANICI10 Instagram - @zahranicifitness Facebook - Za Hranicí Fitness YouTube - Za Hranicí Fitness Web Podcastu - zahranicifitness.cz
Since Parkinson's is caused by a dopamine deficiency in the brain, what if you ate foods rich in the dopamine precursor levodopa?
Uma doença neurológica, progressiva e ainda sem cura, que afeta os movimentos das pessoas. Em 1817, um médico inglês chamado James Parkinson publicou um manuscrito chamado Introdução à "Paralisia agitante". Nele foi descrito sistematicamente os sintomas da doença que hoje leva o seu nome, a Doença de Parkinson. Para falar da Mucuna pruriens, dos sintomas não motores e de outros assuntos, nós recebemos o prof. Dr. José Ronaldo Santos da Universidade Federal de Sergipe. Então Vem Cienciar conosco!
Dopamine is an important brain chemical that influences your mood and feelings of reward and motivation. It helps regulate body movements as well. Levels are generally well regulated by the body, but there are a few diet and lifestyle changes you can make to boost your levels naturally. A balanced diet that contains adequate protein, vitamins and minerals, probiotics and a moderate amount of saturated fat can help your body produce the dopamine it needs. For people with dopamine deficiency diseases, such as Parkinson's, eating natural food sources of L-dopa like fava beans or Mucuna pruriens may help restore dopamine levels. Lifestyle choices are also important. Getting enough sleep, exercising, listening to music, meditating and spending time in the sun can all boost dopamine levels. Overall, a balanced diet and lifestyle can go a long way in increasing your body's natural production of dopamine and helping your brain function at its best. Full Article: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-to-increase-dopamine Medical Disclaimer: Sober is Dope! Podcast aims to improve the quality of life for people struggling with a substance use or mental health disorder with fact-based content about the nature of behavioral health conditions, treatment options and their related outcomes. We publish material that is researched, cited, edited and reviewed by licensed medical professionals. The information we provide is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. It should not be used in place of the advice of your physician or other qualified healthcare provider. My name is POP Buchanan. I am the founder of the Sober is Dope Podcast and company. I am speaker, sobriety activist, and businessman. I am a recovering alcoholic with 8 years sobriety. I devoted my life to sharing my story and to excite healing in others. I started Sober is Dope to highlight the benefits of living a sober life, and to provide tools for personal life transformation. Without Detox to Rehab my Alcohol Addiction would have killed me. Sobriety and Sobriety motivation came from complete Rock bottom and Darkness. My Addiction Recovery was a miracle. Sober life gave me a second chance. I was not Sober curious until I was facing death. Recovery from addiction was my blessing. I share my recovery stories from addiction and how detox and rehab saved my life. My name is POP Buchanan. I am the Founder of the Sober is Doper podcast. Sobriety podcast and Addiction podcast centered in transparency and healing. This post is dedicated to anyone struggling with drugs and alcohol addiction and addicts world wide. The Sober is Dope Podcast is an honest podcast that covers all aspects of recovery from addiction, trauma, and life. We put a huge emphasis on self development, mental health, sobriety, motivation, and life transformation. We cover topics like addiction science, meditation, health, nutrition, therapy, mindfulness, Love, Process Addictions, and spirituality. The podcast is for anyone seeking help with addiction, depression, toxic lifestyles, and finding purpose through abstinence. #soberupfast #soberisdope #soberpodcast Here is the link to the Podcast, Shop, and FREE Personal Transformation E-BOOK. Highest Blessings. Sober is Doper ➡️ https://bit.ly/2Dh67xi “It's never too late to be amazing!” - POP Buchanan
If you're listening to this podcast, chances are you know what it feels like to hunt for good food and produce that you know will leave you feeling your best. If that resonates with you, you'll love today's conversation with superfood hunter, Jerry Zeifman! Tune in to hear some life-altering suggestions to combat bloating and digestive issues, gain some fascinating insights into the superfoods you know, and be introduced to some amazing new ones. You'll hear about the ingredients at the forefront of Jerry's mind at the moment, like the sour and astringent Maqui berry, Schisandra grown on a family farm in New England, and Baobab harvested at a women's co-op in South Africa. Jerry reveals that, in order to be certified organic, a product doesn't need to be completely pesticide-free, and he gives us a glimpse into the farm where he and his son harvest adaptogenic, Ayurvedic herbs. He tells us about his introduction to healthy eating and shares how introducing enzymes into his diet changed his digestive system before telling us about the manifold uses of enzymes in restoring health. We also talk about Kapikachhu or Mucuna and its role in affecting dopamine transmitters for Parkinson's. Tune in today!Key Points From This Episode:An introduction to today's guest, superfood hunter, Jerry Zeifman. How the Maqui berry has 50 percent more antioxidants than the Açai berry.The flavour profile of Maqui berry that is sour, astringent, and delicious.How his Schisandra is grown on a family farm in New England and dried with infrared drying.The Baobab that is harvested at a women's co-op in South Africa.How he and his son came to live on a farm in Lanark County where they are harvesting adaptogenic, Ayurvedic herbs like Holy Basil and Ashwagandha. How the antioxidants are stored in the pigments of these herbs. Why being certified organic does not indicate that a food is pesticide-free.The unusual products that add value that Jerry seeks out for his store.How the honey melon jerky came to be after a meeting with a jerky supplier.The hot peppers his son grows: Habanero, Jalapeño, Birds Eye, Reapers, and more.Jerry's wish to look and feel more fit in ten years time when he is 80. His introduction to enzymes and how they changed his digestive system.How enzymes can be used therapeutically and digestively.The hot seat: Jerry tells us why he is a dusk person, how his family would rate his driving, which colour best represents him, and why he loves blueberry pie!Kapikachhu or Mucuna and its role in affecting dopamine transmitters for Parkinson's.Why Jerry endorses Ashwagandha to support the body's processes.Jerry's preference to have Matcha in the morning and Holy Basil at night.How the ingredients ECGC and MSM help to give you beautiful skin.Links Mentioned in Today's Episode:Jerry Zeifman on LinkedInOrganic TraditionsConscious EatingThe 100 Healthiest Foods to Eat During PregnancyAging BitesDeliciously GeekyAllison Tannis on LinkedInAllison Tannis on InstagramNatural Health Influencer on Instagram
The words Di Dao (Di Tao) is a concept that most of our SuperFeast community would be familiar with, as it's the way we source our herbs. Di Dao herbs are of the highest quality and grown with integrity to ensure optimal, powerful healing properties. For a herb to be classified Di Dao, it must have been grown in its natural habitat; Which means the right region, soil, and microclimate for that specific species. The beauty of Di Dao herbs is they perform optimally, much like the human body when it is holistically cared for and nourished the way it needs to be. In this episode, Mason chats with Jansen Andre on The Awoken Athlete podcast about SuperFeast's commitment to Di Dao sourcing, herbs for optimal performance, and a holistic perspective of the nuances that affect performance within the body at all levels. Mason details the integrity behind Di Dao sourcing and how it ensures the livelihood of micro-farming stays alive; Continuing the wisdom and teachings of Di Dao within communities. Whether you're an athlete or not, we're all being physically, emotionally, and mentally pushed with our hectic, under-nourished lifestyles. This episode addresses the best herbs for lifestyle support and performance on all levels. " Di Dao. Going to the spiritual homeland of the herbs and buying and growing them there. Far away from industry. You're getting the spore or the seed from that area and making sure it's a particular microclimate in which it grows. This is based on texts over 2,000 years old that tell you how to do this." - MasonTaylor Mason and Jansen discuss: Qi and performance. Cordyceps and performance. Adaptogens and performance. Jing, Qi, Shen; How they work. Comparing Di Dao and organic. Preventing injury and exhaustion. Jing; nourishing a solid foundation. How to take SuperFeast tonic herbs. Di Dao; growing, sourcing, and integrity. Disease, healing, and building the body back up. The colonisation and institutionalisation around healing ourselves. Performance in business and the freedoms of staying investor-free. Who is Mason Taylor? Mason Taylor is the founder of SuperFeast. Mason was first exposed to the ideas of potentiating the human experience through his mum Janesse (who was a big inspiration for founding SuperFeast and is still an inspiration to Mason and his team due to her ongoing resilience in the face of disability). After traveling South America for a year, Mason found himself struggling with his health - he was worn out, carried fungal infections, and was only 22. He realised that he had the power to take control of his health. Mason redirected his attention from his business degree and night work in a bar to begin what was to become more than a decade of health research, courses, education, and mentorship from some of the leaders in personal development, wellness, and tonic herbalism. Inspired by the own changes to his health and wellbeing through his journey (which also included Yoga teacher training and raw foodism!), he started SuperFeast in 2010. Initially offering a selection of superfoods, herbs, and supplements to support detox, immune function, and general wellbeing. Mason offered education programs around Australia, and it was on one of these trips that he met Tahnee, who is now his wife and CEO of SuperFeast. Mason also offered detox and health transformation retreats in the Byron hinterland (some of which Tahnee also worked on, teaching Yoga and workshops on Taoist healing practices, as well as offering Chi Nei Tsang treatments to participants). After falling in love with the Byron Shire, Mason moved SuperFeast from Sydney's Northern Beaches to Byron Bay in 2015. He lived on a majestic permaculture farm in the Byron hinterland, and after not too long, Tahnee joined him (and their daughter, Aiya was conceived). The rest is history - from a friend's rented garage to a warehouse in the Byron Industrial Estate to SuperFeast's current home in Mullumbimby's beautiful Food Hub, SuperFeast (and Mason) has thrived in the conscious community of the Northern Rivers. Mason continues to evolve his role at SuperFeast, in education, sourcing, training, and creating the formulas based on Taoist principles of tonic herbalism. CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON APPLE PODCAST Resources: Mason Instagram SuperFeast Instagram SuperFeast Apple Podcast The Awoken Athlete Podcast Mind and Body Peak Performance with James Newbury (EP#106) Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We'd also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Jansen Andre: (00:00:00): All right, Mason from SuperFeast, thank you so much for coming on The Awoken Athlete podcast today. For those of you who don't know, Mason runs a beautiful company called, SuperFeast, which is based around tonic herbs. Do you want to give us a little introduction, Mason, about what you do and how did you even start? Mason Taylor: (00:00:23): Yeah, thanks for having me on. As you said, SuperFeast is about to turn 10 years old. So I've been doing it for a while now. The majority of the time when I started out, what I wanted to end up doing was Taoist tonic herbalism. So it's that style of herbalism that springs from the classical texts of Chinese Medicine and gears more towards prevention, the cultivation of life, the cultivation of potential, having the ability to not fall into early degeneration and wasting away, which is what we see as the norm in the western world. Mason Taylor: (00:01:01): And even though I was really interested in performance, I had that drive in my early twenties when I was exploring this to see what was possible for my body. I was really curious in that, from a business sense getting into herbs, I was really interested in the trajectory that I was on towards the 70 year old self and 80 year old self. And the only place, at the time, especially around herbalism, I could see conversation or I could see terminology around how to get into a lifestyle flow utilising things like herbs that in a western sense and even in a modern Chinese Medicine sense is used just for symptoms. If there's a problem, respond with medicines, with herbs. Mason Taylor: (00:01:48): The Daoist approach, had a conversation of how to cultivate life so that you can put the odds in your favour more and more and more not to end up in practitioners' offices. Not that I'm averse to it. I like working with practitioners as well, but not end up institutionally dependent. I will go into terminology a bit later in describing what these, so the three foundational treasures are, in the body. So the elements that make up what either keep you functioning and stop you from degenerating, keep you large over your life and then ensure that your best self is coming through, is Jing, Qi and Shen. Mason Taylor: (00:02:28): And I just had conversations and practises in herbal usage around how to ensure that we really guard these treasures. That just really translates to hopefully, if it's maybe a little bit more or a lot more when we enter into our elder stages. Which of course then is going to mean that throughout our entire life we're a bit more robust and healthy. When we get to those later stages, you've got a relatively strong body. Your bones aren't wasting away. That's the Jing. Mason Taylor: (00:02:56): You're hormones in a foundational level, are able to stay adaptive and if you don't have Jing, it's what people waste away with hectic lifestyles, no sleep and all that kind of stuff. You've got lots of Jing when you're a kid and that's why you burn it at both ends, but then people keep that up and they don't adjust and they don't get wiser as they get older, therefore their bones start wasting, their hips, their body has no strength. They lose that foundational energy. That's Jing energy. Mason Taylor: (00:03:24): And so we want to make sure that that's safeguarded as well as our Qi. That's what enables us to stay mobile and regulate our heat, regulate our fluids, move us. Basically put the spark in the machine. Living Jing is just like, just say your body is just this machine of potential and flesh and if it's not animated, it's just sitting there, you need that thing to be rock solid. You need it to be really strong and have a lot of genetic potential. That's your Jing. And then you put a spark in and it comes to life and you can move through the world and animate through the world and regulate all the functions of the body. That's the Qi. Mason Taylor: (00:03:59): That's the other thing we want to be nice and strong in our body throughout our entire lives and then the point of that is the Shen. Which is essentially if the heart's really healthy, the heart fire, which is not just the physical heart. If all the organs are really working well and showing that the emperor that is the heart, is really flowing, then throughout our lifetime, our consciousness, our virtuous nature, are part of us that's determined to be less of an asshole and more of an awesome person that isn't projecting all over everyone and actually has the capacity to learn from experiences, go through psychological developments, let go of ideologies, step more into our own truth, so on and so forth. Mason Taylor: (00:04:43): That comes forth and what you see then is if the Shen's really allowed to express as you get to 70 and 80 and 90, what you see in people who are just, you know, they are these people that have evolved themselves, they're not vomiting their opinion all over everybody, they're not resigned, they're not resentful, they're not fearful, they're not unable to forgive, stuck in their ways. They can be fun, they can take the piss out of themselves and they're someone who's not a burden on the family. Not that I'm not judging these things, but it's like, that's the whole conversation. Mason Taylor: (00:05:20): That's a very diluted one around this concept of Taoism and then get rid of the word, Taoism, ancient Chinese philosophy kind of stuff. It's just humans that were just like, how can we can just make this... Just keep us healthy for as long as possible and it's not deity based. You don't have to buy into a religion or anything like that. It's just around your own potential and your own discovery path. And that's what I started to discover before I started SuperFeast and I was like, that's... I wanted to get into herbs and then I discovered there were these herbs that were in that longterm focus and intention, so I just jumped in then and I didn't focus on the herbs back then, because I didn't think there was a market for it. Mason Taylor: (00:06:00): And then I did actual markets for years and then people were coming to me with bigger and bigger intentions around their health and I was like, well, the only thing that's really going to help from what I can offer, at least, medicinal mushrooms like Reishi, tonic herbs like Astragalus and the Lion's Manes and Ho Shou Wus and all these really, the precious herbs, the Taoists call them. The superior herbs. They call them the messengers from heaven. Mason Taylor: (00:06:25): And so over the years I just kept on adding them in and I've started doing a few formulas and educating people about this style of herbs that is more folky and it's not about, a lot of the time, practitioners and especially modern Chinese practitioners are like, "No. Herbal practise is for us. We dish out the herbs." Like this and you can't meddle with that. And you go back to the classics and there are these herbs that are like, these are really safe. And really beautiful. And can be used with a little bit of education, as long as you're determined to keep on listening to whether you can use these in everyday life. Mason Taylor: (00:06:59): And that's the point of it. Take out the colonisation and the institutionalisation around healing ourselves and keeping ourselves healthy. And so I educated more and more about that. And then at some point my wife, now wife, joined me in the business about five years ago. We started taking it a bit seriously, because I have a bit of Peter Pan syndrome and I run off doing whatever I bloody want all the time. And then we took it seriously and it started really taking off and now we're a decent enough company, still family owned in Mullumbimby here now. I started off in Sydney. Mason Taylor: (00:07:28): And yeah, we have a bunch of formulas and really, a bunch of crew here, working and helping us manifest the mission to help people just take that little bit extra control of their body. Feel that sovereignty and their capacity to not just cross their fingers about not getting sick. And then also as well, having longterm intentions and just having relationships with these herbs. They're really beautiful. I mentioned a few there. It's like the Schizandras. I don't have Ginseng, but the Ginsengs, these herbs that everyone would have like... We started the Cordyceps. These herbs are, yes, they're adaptogens and people are using them in a really cool way to help their body become more adaptive and to get greater output. Mason Taylor: (00:08:18): That's when you look at them as an adaptogen herb, a Westerner. This is an adaptogen that's going to help you adapt and get better output. And that's sick. But that's an agenda based kind of in, output, what benefit to me. And that's cool as well. I don't mind that, but an adaptogen herb, like Schizandra or Ginseng is a herb that's going to help you. It has a non-specific effect in the body. So you don't know where the markers in the body are going to go or where the energy is going to go. You just know that it's going to harmonise more. And so it's not just going to take the immune system up and stimulate it, for example. Mason Taylor: (00:08:54): It might lower it in some situations, like autoimmune conditions. And then it has an accumulative effect on the body. So the longer you take it, the greater effect you see. And this is how the Russians describe adaptogens. And then also, it has a non-toxic, non-harmful effect on the body, which is basically what 2,000 years ago, the first medic, Shennong, was like, hey, these are the herbs you take that are non-toxic. But then, yeah, so adaptogens good, people are using them. Mason Taylor: (00:09:22): But then tonic herbalism and Taoist philosophy and then you take away the Taoism, it's just the philosophy of having a relationship longterm with this herb to help a dream of your own or a vision of your own health stay present throughout your life. And you're an athlete and you can see a lot of athletes all of a sudden go, I really want that potential now, and it's a strong intent, but I also, I'm starting to realise that I don't want to come out the backend of my professional athletic career and be flogged. Mason Taylor: (00:09:49): And they start thinking about their 50 and 60 year old self and so, the terminology around tonic herbalism starts helping to align your outer actions and your lifestyle to that longterm intention as well as taking a shit load of Cordyceps or whatever now, to in order to get a really good workout and recovery in this instance. So yeah, that's kind of a long way of answering your question. Jansen Andre: (00:10:15): So, yeah. Overwhelming, but you mentioned and I know on your website that these herbs and plants you source are ancestral to China. But I read you kept it that way except for Cordyceps. Is there a reason for this? Mason Taylor: (00:10:33): Cordyceps is in China. It's just the wild Cordyceps is really rare and expensive and unsustainable to meet the demand. And so there's a technology there to ferment it in a broth and so, still then, it's the only one, so it's our only mushroom that's not grown on wood, grown outdoors, that kind of thing. We've got a very specific sourcing philosophy that we take very serious and Cordyceps is the only one that isn't strictly Di Dao. For that reason, but we just do our best. We've got a really unique broth recipe. Mason Taylor: (00:11:05): It's why our Cordyceps is unique and isn't just like all the other CS spores in the market. And we've got a team of herbalists who tend to it and we don't grow on grain which is a big for me. A big no no. And I definitely don't have hardcore judgement of everyone that grows mushrooms on grain, but I don't personally agree with it, because it's not the native food of a mushroom. The native food of a medicinal mushroom is wood. And there's an alchemical process that occurs when that mushroom is growing through the wood. It has an enzymatic reaction with the wood. Is eating the carbohydrates within that wild wood, right. Mason Taylor: (00:11:45): Quite often, people are like, it doesn't really matter. You can grow on grains and oats and coffee and some people even grow on paper. And it's cheap. What we do is expensive. And having integrity a lot of the time and upholding in the sense of wanting to uphold a tradition is really expensive and a lot of people are like, look, it doesn't matter. There's similar biomarkers in the one grown on whatever, even like a [inaudible 00:12:10]. And that's what the scientific community goes, you can just pick out, that's what scientism does. You go, I'm going to pick out one variable to justify that ours is just as good as the others. Mason Taylor: (00:12:22): But then if you go back into true science, which is thousands of years of usage and subtle understandings through thousands and thousands of practitioners and people that have laid down the foundations for science to then jump in and create variables on this kind of herbal system, there are certain things that aren't measured yet, that they are aware of. Like you need to do a complete, full extraction of that herb so that it's not just that one beta glucan or chemical that you're justifying the awesomeness of your product with. There's undiscovered chemicals which are symbiotic to the entire reason that this herb is being revered for 5,000 years knowingly. And probably further back than that. Mason Taylor: (00:13:16): And that's why we just kind of let them speak for themselves. People often find a really science data, we're data driven, but a real, pick a variable and market it kind of product and then people are like, that's good. And then they'll kind of want more, because they don't want to just trust that it's good and good stuff's happening. A lot of people will find our stuff and then they'll take it and there's a little "je nais se quois," a little special something that's present in the herb that they'll go, oh, it just feels a bit different. And yeah, when you get longterm, you feel more safe and comfortable taking something that is complete and it's been grown in the way as close to possible that our ancestors and our immune system have evolved taking it. Mason Taylor: (00:13:58): And so there's a special little softness and trust that you can ease in and as well, then placebos start getting activated which just means you're not anxious and tense and just you're not trusting the mind's data and believing in marketing. You can feel that there's something with substance and essence going into your body. And that's why, and I'm definitely not the only one doing it, this is a very ancient tradition, growing herbs Di Dao. Going to the spiritual homeland of the herbs and buying and growing them there. Far away from industry. You're getting the spore or the seed from that area and making sure it's a particular micro climate in which you're growing in. This is based on texts over 2,000 years old that tell you how to do this. Mason Taylor: (00:14:47): And people are like, oh, but it's not organic. And it's like, yeah, you can buy organic certifications very easy and I like organic certification, but the way I... I could go organic really quickly. Or I could drop, I'd have to pay through the nose. It's exorbitant what these people expect me to send out there. It's a big business which is I'm like, well, I don't need to get you out, just pay you thousands and thousands to go to every single little micro farm. And these are micro farmers. These are villagers who we're growing from and that's why organic farms are these huge growing operations, which are really good and can do high output. Mason Taylor: (00:15:30): And they're doing it really well, a lot of the time, but they're doing it in a way that's not, you can't go right up into the mountains and grow in that capacity. And you can't do it with wild wood in that capacity in order to cheaply be able to just get that person out to certify organic, that big farm, indoor lab that you're doing. As good as it is. And I really, like a lot of my friends who are competitors who do that, because they're then able to do actually do mass market stuff. But for me to go organic, I'd have to dramatically take a back step in effectiveness. Because I'm a little, first of all, I'm a small company and we also support people in the village, say where we're growing Reishi. Mason Taylor: (00:16:13): Like one of our farmers, Mr. Li, is training other people in the village so that there's actually jobs locally. That's localising the industry. It's keeping it traditional. It's keeping it family owned. It's not this huge herb, these overarching companies that own all the farmers and tell them, like me having investors telling me you can't do it that way. You need to work this way. And I'm like, no, no, no, but we're going to lose the integrity and they're like, look, it doesn't really matter. If people don't know about that standard that you set and then majority of people won't really give a shit. And we're like, no, but I give a shit and that's the same with the farmers. They give a shit upholding this tradition and they know if they produce the best Di Dao herbs and we have people who know how to test that, try it. Mason Taylor: (00:17:00): I know how to test it, try it and go, hey, the quality is, this never happened, but I've done it before when I was doing my testing of right in the beginning of knowing that they say that's Di Dao, but that's not true. And you grill them. They go, oh yeah, that's actually a commercial spore that we're growing with. It's not a wild spore, Reishi, from the area in which we're growing, because that's hard to do. And so, yeah, it's a very difficult thing to do, growing in this way. But it connects you to something. It connects you, you're going back to the source of these, why these herbs were revered and so those farmers that are growing this way know that there is an impact, a viability of their product, if they make it the absolute best possible and don't compromise. Mason Taylor: (00:17:53): They know that there are companies like mine that will buy that top notch Di Dao product. And so we get a little, we get Mr. Li teaching a young woman locally, how to grow Reishi and the first few years she might not be doing the absolute best, but there might be a little bit of crème de la crème that we will be able to buy off her in the beginning. And we've got people going out there and making sure the area is clean. We test in TGA labs for pesticides, metals, aflatoxins, all and beyond, and then all these things that actually aren't needed to be tested for, but we do, in China and in Australia. Mason Taylor: (00:18:32): And so what I would need to do for organic is send out this guy who charges thousands of dollars in order for me to maintain this little thing that they think is a marketing hole in one, is having an organic symbol. And pay him a thousand dollars to go this woman's farm, check it out, pay them, whatever, three thousand dollars a night for them to stay over the night and then go back and do some other little testing in order for them to go, yeah, I'm going to tell you what you knew already. It's good. There's no pesticides in the area. And is that worth it in order to support the localization? It's good, I want to support this woman, but I'm not getting enough Reishi, but I want to support her. Mason Taylor: (00:19:17): And so these are the nuances of behind the scenes of how our company works. And I know you started talking about Cordyceps and we just went into discussing why it's a good question, why isn't Cordyceps at that same level as the other herbs. And it's just because we can't leave the crop in abundance. It's like Reishi. We don't do Reishi wild anymore. We did when we started. And now it just got too popular. Before it became an issue, we opted out and went to the best possible farming practise. And we've done that with Schizandra as well. In the beginning it was just like, there's just no way we're going to be able to ever get through this much wild Schizandra that's in Changbai Mountain and sure enough, yeah, actually when this probably doesn't seem too healthy. Mason Taylor: (00:20:03): And we work with good local governments. We move provinces in China if they're irresponsible with the land management which I know people who like China, that's not true, actually no, it is true. There are local governments, some that are like ours, that are really harshly regulating the population of pine trees or the amount of pine nuts that are up in the Changbai forest and soon to be the only amount of Chaga that's been harvested in order to maintain and preserve. So we work with that, but then go beyond that just to make sure we don't strip the environment. You've got to leave it better than you found it. Mason Taylor: (00:20:44): So yeah, we've gone now to, I think, the majority farming of... You know, it's still incredible Schizandra. It's still in the wild. It's still the most amazing Schizandra being pumped out, but it just makes it a little bit better for everyone. But yeah, I can't do that with Cordyceps. So do that in a broth. Jansen Andre: (00:21:03): So you're adjusting, from what I gather from that, determining, depending on how popular or how much of a certain thing you're selling, you have to go back and look, is it possible to keep getting it from the same source? Mason Taylor: (00:21:21): It's a never ending analysis. So the biggest at the moment is Chaga. So the last time I was in China, we were going up to Chagang to harvest Chaga up in, near the North Korean border, it's a mountain called, Changbai Mountain, a national park there. And they were just moving in the direction of, it sounded like there were some, the way it worked is the guys that would go in, they'd go on week expeditions to go and harvest Chaga, because it's quite deep where you go and they've been doing it for 20 years, at least. Mason Taylor: (00:21:56): So they know how to ensure that they're not stripping so much that they're not going to have a crop for the next year or in five years and 10 years. A lot of them are getting their kids ready to do this as well. But now it was getting popular, so we're like, okay, it was getting a few two minute noodle harvesters, as I call them. As always. Going like, I can do this. But the barrier to entry seems to be holding. It's a skillset that can't just be, people just can't all of a sudden know how to go and find the Chaga. There's snakes and shit and people are scared of going there and doing these expeditions. So the barrier to entry seems like enough, but I've already talked to my team over there and been like, let's just watch it. Mason Taylor: (00:22:47): Because North American Chaga is not being managed really well. Now it's starting to, but it's not a sustainable harvesting of Chaga that's going on in North America and people think it's the same happening in China. And it's not at that point yet and the government's also about to start regulating and licencing the people that can go in to this particular area to harvest Chaga. They've already done it with pine nuts and it's really, they're not just a little slap on the wrist. You get really scorned if you go and break those rules. Mason Taylor: (00:23:17): And so yeah, we haven't had to do that yet for Chaga, but I've got a back up source that's my second favourite place to get Chaga from, if need be. But yeah, that's an example of keeping our finger on the pulse. And with Poria, for example. Poria, really not well known in this kind of, in my community. Maybe my community a little bit more, but a really popular Chinese herb. Not so much in the adaptogen community, Poria mushroom isn't really well known. And it requires pine to grow and so wild pine is what you want. And the primary place to grow Di Dao in the centre of China, the government wasn't regulating the harvesting of pine. Mason Taylor: (00:24:05): And so, even though the people we would work with, we're pretty sure, especially because they ended up moving with the operation, but they were adhering to harvesting methods that weren't going to be stripping the whole ecosystem. The government wasn't regulating it and so there were people around taking advantage and it leaves a bad vibe on it and so you don't want that vibe. And you can't do Di Dao if you're involved in something that isn't going to sustainably leave the environment as it is. So we went to our second ideal place to grow Di Dao down in Jinlun province. Mason Taylor: (00:24:41): And there, the government harshly regulates for each person how much pine you're going to be able to go and harvest. Where you can harvest. Ensuring that you're planting and contributing back to the replanting to the extent where it's like we'll go and trek up and ask you to show where you've harvested yours and then if they find anything else in the vicinity, they'll investigate it and have it be marked as being a particular farmer's quota. And so those are the things that go in behind the scenes that people don't realise to actually grow a Di Dao herb and that's why it's hard. Mason Taylor: (00:25:15): You can imagine, it's like oh, screw this. Well, let's just get pine from a domestic pine farm. But that's, of course, it's so easy and that needs to be happening to an extent, because you can't give the world how much Poria it needs of all wild pine. But there is a way and maybe it stops at some point. I don't know. Maybe at some point I need to just have, all right, here's the Di Dao range and then here's the other range. Here's the one that's maybe a little more for widespread consumption. But yeah, at the moment we don't have to do that. But yeah, that's everything that kind of, the other stuff that goes in behind the scenes. Jansen Andre: (00:25:56): Very interesting. It seems like a very intense and long process as well as people putting their lives on the line in terms of wild animals and nature and stuff to go and forage and harvest these herbs. I just want to strip it back, right back for people that are unaware of adaptogens and herbs. What would be a reason that somebody would consider taking medicinal mushrooms or tonic herbs and what are the main few that you focus on at SuperFeast that you would include in say, your average person's daily consumption that you would consider the most important. Considering we live in such a Yang, fast lifestyle. Mason Taylor: (00:26:51): Good question, man, good question. There's many directions I could take why people take tonic herbs. I'll start seeing if I can rattle them off and not distract myself. So clinically, the tonic herbs in general, a lot of them are used in formulas in order to overcome particular disease states. But I leave that to a practitioner. The intention of tonic herbalism isn't, and my formulas, for instance, isn't to treat disease states. Mason Taylor: (00:27:27): But when you're in that instance where you're working with a practitioner, say how they would use it is perhaps they would get you onto medicinal mushrooms alongside a treatment... A really good example is chemo. There's a lot of people who have identified that you can take medicinal mushrooms alongside the chemo. So a lot of people are out there going to medicinal mushrooms, specifically for the treatment of cancer. And there are institutions researching that and there are countries that utilise that in their actual conventional medical system. But that's something that we're not at that place yet. Mason Taylor: (00:28:11): But there are a lot of practitioners that have realised that having medicinal mushrooms going into conjunction to cancer treatments like chemo and radiotherapy, the intent there being to ensure that the body isn't destroyed by the treatment itself. So keeping the immune system adept, strong, activated. So that's one area where people might use tonic herbs or a practitioner might use tonic herbs. Mason Taylor: (00:28:38): In the convalescence stage of a disease, so the healing and the building back. So after you've undergone... Someone with, I'm just trying to think of an example, if someone's gone through two years of hyperthyroidism and they've been undergoing lots of little micro herbal treatments and hormone therapies and they get to a point where they're feeling, okay, I don't feel like I'm sick anymore, but those years absolutely wasted me. And took it out of me mentally, spiritually, emotionally, physically. And so at that point tonic herbs are going to have a lot to do with the rebuilding of the body, right? That's when they're really beautiful and tonifying. They can tonify functions of the body. Mason Taylor: (00:29:28): There's also, we could say the same for preparing for big surgeries. Preparing the body for huge medical treatments and that doesn't just have to be things like chemo. There are a lot of herbal treatments or even someone who's sick and flies over to Mexico and is getting that hypothermia treatment and they're doing the oxygenation of the blood and they're doing lots of colonics and whatever it is. Those take a lot out of the body. You need a lot of strength and so people would use tonic herbs to strengthen the body and prepare it in those instances. Mason Taylor: (00:30:06): Then there are people who are looking to, they're looking to prevent injury, prevent acute illness, thinking about just preventing illness in the future, preventing exhaustion creeping in the future. They watch their parents' minds kind of waste away, their brains kind of waste away or the bones waste away. And so there's an intent around prevention. And a lot of people are starting to realise that there is this class of herbs that are basically herbal foods that can assist you and might not be perfect and there's no guarantees, but it's like, why are we going and upgrading the quality of our water from tap to filtered to maybe the best spring water we can find and adding in some hydrogen. Mason Taylor: (00:30:58): Why are we going from yeah, cool, I'm getting organic veggies from the health food store to try and include some wild foods in your diet. It's because you're upgrading and potentiating and trying to get these habits to norms that will mineralize the body and potentiate the body. Tone the water of your body into this beautiful crystaline substance that can help you maintain a high quality of life for longterm. And that's the same with tonic herb intention. And so there's that instance. Mason Taylor: (00:31:31): There are people who will take it further from the Taoist intention who want to cultivate longevity. And that can be the longevity of your ability to undergo big psychological evolutions and initiations. So a lot of people have the strength to really get past maybe that leap from 50 years old. It's going to take, all of a sudden everything that you'd identified as important and what makes you up, becomes less important internally to you. But you don't have the ability to let go of that identity, shed the skin and go into that next phase of your life. Because it's scary and I don't have judgement of that. Mason Taylor: (00:32:17): I've had to learn. It's been tough for me, even just going, feeling from 30 and becoming a new dad and identifying with being one particular way and then all of a sudden having a business and needing to land, basically. And not just be flying off with the fairies and so on and so forth. All these different little changes and shifts that happen throughout our lives. To be able to move through them with a skip and a step. That takes a lot. And just in order to ensure that our bones stay healthy. People want longevity for the sake of making sure the kidneys are healthy. The kidneys regulate the bone marrow, the brain, the dewy substances. Mason Taylor: (00:32:54): The brain in Taoism is considered marrow. So ensuring that that aspect of the body is supported by its core organ so that we have greater capacity to think in really complex ways and feel in really complex ways when we're older. Basically, all that comes down to in Daoism as an intention, is cultivation of life. Cultivation of the treasures. Our Jing, our Qi, our Chen. And cultivation can literally be as we burn through it. Because you only have a certain amount of Jing, say, like the wax of the candle. As you burn through it, you add a little bit more on. Mason Taylor: (00:33:30): Well, that's actually adding a little bit more, it's more so keep living off Qi. Keeping living off breath, diet, the herbs and that's the energy you use to get through the day and you don't have to take the wax off the candle and put like a coal burning oven. And get your energy in a non-sustainable way. If you burn through your Jing too early, you're going to not have the foundations the thrive. And you might live a long time, but people are really dying a long time. Mason Taylor: (00:34:02): So that whole intention around longevity in that sense, which our culture does not value as much as, really supporting people to become elders, in a sense that they're healthy and that they're in this capacity to share their wisdom lovingly and willingly with younger generations. That doesn't exist that much. You need to take that into your own sovereign intention. And so in that sense, that all comes down to there are transformation of energy going on through your organs at all times as it continues to circulate. And that transformation is Yin Yang, Yin Yang, Yin Yang, Yin Yang. Mason Taylor: (00:34:47): And that's just your capacity for your Qi to transform smoothly and constantly, which means you're going to constantly have emotions and they can constantly transform and lead you in places where you can get a little bit of a virtue going. And then the fear comes back and boom, boom. So that's all that. And then when you go in on that, that's the five organ system, the Wuxing, five elements. Even though the elements is a rough translation. So the whole point is to ensure that the energy is moving through the heart and the spleen and the lung and the kidneys and the liver and it's able to just transform. Mason Taylor: (00:35:28): Yin Yang, Yin Yang. And that's like that fire Qi. It's just a Yin Yang transformation of Qi going from substance, from something of Yin and consolidation to the Yang through expression and movement in unique ways. And in the heart, it kind of like, ah, that reminds me of fire. It feels like fire and in the spleen, it goes to the spleen. That's really earthy and soil kind of phase transforming through the kidneys. It's like, ah, it's got that water quality. It's just a feeling of what's out there is also in here. But it's really simple. Just, your lifestyle just keeps it going. Just keeps it transforming. Mason Taylor: (00:36:10): And if you're transforming smoothly, you're not wasting your Jing, Qi and Shen. And at some point you can cultivate your Jing, Qi and Shen. The idea, so you're less of an asshole and more of an awesome person when you get older and you're quite healthy. So that's another intention there. And that's probably the reasons why people would get attracted to it and then now it's as well. People are just, I need my brain to be on this morning, so I'm drinking Neural Nectar. This incredible herbs supporting that marrow of the brain and other areas that I know translate to me feeling sharp and there's blood flow through the marrow. I can feel wit and cloudy and supplementing of the kidney energy that's supporting that what we see as mental capacity. Mason Taylor: (00:36:54): So in a Western sense, the Nootropics. They're just helping me nourish the brain, getting some L-dopa in from the Mucuna. Helping me to regulate my moods, so on and so forth. So I also have very micro, not a lot of the time, probably an 80/20 macro intention to micro intention. But there's a micro intention today, because I've got this podcast and I'm having someone on mind, I want to make sure that I can talk and think in really lateral ways without using what's actually not there to be used. You know what I mean? Mason Taylor: (00:37:31): And so there's that as well. And that's kind of where it falls, you know, take Cordyceps before you work out so that your lung is nourished in full Qi flow, so it can function in its Western pulmonary capacity, blood oxygenating capacity, in a better way. While it nourishes the kidney energy and balances out the Yin Yang in the kidneys which is where strength and endurance and power emerges from, if that Qi is flowing. And so do a little short term. Yeah, have that Cordy before an event so that I'm feeling really incredible and that little bit of extra capacity. But then eventually, that becomes, huh, I can embody that at all times and not have reliance on the herb to do it in an immediate manner. Yeah. Jansen Andre: (00:38:19): So back on what you were originally just talking about with Cordyceps and different types of adaptogens, what about an athlete? What would be the most useful kind of tonic herb or adaptogen to use to increase performance, prevent injury and be mentally sharp and clear for everyone listening. Say, for instance, someone was about to go and compete, about to go and do an endurance event, in the lead up to the event, would you say use it for four weeks to gain, I know you were saying before it's accumulative as well on the body. What's kind of your thoughts on that and timeframe with consuming something like that to get the best benefit of it so that when it comes to race day, you're ready? Mason Taylor: (00:39:18): It's sooner the better. Day before is awesome as well. The intention is, maybe people can relate with say, their breath work. Maybe they're like, oh cool, I'm going to start doing some breath work for this event and wow, that really helped me get prepared and I feel like I had greater output and recovery during the event. I'm going to do that again for the next event and then the one afterwards, they just never stop the breath work, because it's like, ah, this helps me feel good all the time. And all of a sudden it becomes like drinking water or having a smoothie or whatever. Mason Taylor: (00:39:56): That's generally where tonic herbalism is going to land you and you'll realise it's got three intentions, they say. A really direct one in order that you might pick up the usage of particular herbs, which I'll get into soon, before an event in order to ensure that specifically your lungs are really potentiated and your kidneys as well are really potentiated during the event. So you have a high athletic performance while you're actually in there. Mason Taylor: (00:40:23): So that's the first and then you might pick up some of those herbs at the beginning, in the weeks leading up. Then you're going to have herbs for your recovery to ensure that you haven't, you want to ensure that you in flogging yourself, you're not "flugging" the substance of your body. And I'll get into those as well. And then there's going to be just your everyday regular intention, like taking your medicinal mushrooms, like a Mason Taylor:'s Mushrooms blend that we've got. Mason Taylor: (00:40:50): It's got a lot of herbs that will help potentiate you for the event, but you might not have that association. In the lead up, you might want to go focus on things like Cordyceps and Astragalus and the Qi herbs and the Yang herbs to help you get ready for that. So that might just lock into a... And then when I'm just between events and I'm just wanting to keep myself healthy and going, then I'll take my Mason Taylor:'s Mushrooms or there might be something else that you're interested in, like Schizandra. Mason Taylor: (00:41:16): Ironically, all the tonic herbs are going to help. But some of them just have the brand and the proclivity to help an athlete perform much more. So let's have a look at where you're going to be at in the build up and I've mentioned them already. There's going to be a combination of, a lot of the time it's the Jing herbs and the Qi herbs which people are going to be more attracted to when wanting output. And that is also going to depend on how sustainable your recovery is in training and your lifestyle is in training. Mason Taylor: (00:41:54): If you are really good at sleeping and really good at taking days off and really good at getting into your parasympathetic nervous system regularly, and not feeling fearful. You're not an athlete, you're not looking for performance out of fear constantly, because you're not an enough, you know. There's an actual, really soulful intent that isn't, your identity isn't dependent on the outcome. That shift's going to mean that your athletic intentions aren't going to leak your Jing as much as someone that is doing those things. Mason Taylor: (00:42:30): So not to put, that's all of us. We're all learning through this process of getting into the dojo and a lot of the time, while we're younger we're not going to be very good at it, so a lot of athletes really like the Jing herbs. So the Jing formula, Cordyceps is another amazing one. I'll even throw Schizandra and the Beauty Blend that we've got over at SuperFeast into that one. It's going to really ensure that you actually have the substance in your kidneys to feed the power and the strength and the adrenaline. Mason Taylor: (00:43:04): When you're leading up into that, Cordyceps kind of takes the reins. I know, I don't like, I'm pretty a lot of people fall into the tonic herb space who do like Yang herbs, like Deer Antler Velvet, there's a tonic by ant that people will get into or it might be Tongkat Ali and other beautiful tonic herbs. Siberian Ginseng, Rhodiola, these are those going over towards these Yang tonic herbs that will take the substance of your body. Mason Taylor: (00:43:34): So it will take, say, the water of your body that holds all your power and strength in the Yin of the kidneys and the Yang will start heating it up and turning it into vapour in your body. And so that you become really lubricated and that power and that potential in the water is spread through the entirety of your body and germinating the Jing so that you can really express. That's what the Yang is about and why you're going to be attracted to those Yang herbs. Mason Taylor: (00:43:59): A lot of the time, a primary example is the Cordyceps. And that's why Jing herbs are really popular going in, but if you are feeling really good with your lifestyle and your recovery and everything, at some point you'll see a switch go over the main herbs that you're going to use to prepare for are the Qi herbs, like Astragalus, Ginseng, White Atractylodes, Codonopsis, even Poise. And they are like, so I've got a Qi formula which people will, all of the athletes will go, yeah, Jing. Oh my God, the Jing and the Cordyceps, that's like, I need these and I can feel them feeding me. Mason Taylor: (00:44:39): But at some point they click over into, they feel like they've got a good flow that they're always ready to perform and then they go, uh huh, now I just need to bring a refinement by the way that I animate myself and I move myself and they start tonifying. And this is an interesting one, because the Cordyceps is a Jing and Qi tonic. And this is why it's the perfect intro for people. But then they start adding in Astragalus and the Qi formula and all of a sudden their lungs' ability to bring in vitality and energy to the body, so it can animate itself and not get fatigued, that's what becomes more important and you've always got the foundation of your Jing through your lifestyle and maybe taking of Jing herbs in your recovery stage. Does that make sense? Jansen Andre: (00:45:28): Yeah. Yeah, wow. I was literally just about to ask you about the Qi blend. As you describe on your website, the Energy Blend, but it is a slower building effect on the body in terms of stimulant and hit as per se. Mason Taylor: (00:45:43): Yeah, it's a slower build, because most people don't have the foundations within the kidneys in order to really get the most out of their diet and their spleen to produce Qi and the Qi that you're extracting from the air. But that is the true, they combine the Gong Qi that you get from your food, from cooking your food and the Gong Qi that you get from breathing. Your body harvests that and combines that and then there's Yin Yang expressions of that. Mason Taylor: (00:46:20): One goes to the surface of the body and it's known as your Wei Qi and the other goes through the organs and the meridians and charges the organs so that you've got daily function. That's constantly happening. And so it's a more direct Qi, but in the beginning, people need to experience their own Jing, because everyone's trying to just have heaps of Qi energy immediately without having the foundation. So they need to take the Jing herbs, they need to learn how to sleep and recover and being Yin, because otherwise see what happens. People are constant heating up all their waters and creating vapour. What happens if you don't replenish the water? Mason Taylor: (00:46:56): Boom, you become deficient. And so once you do have that good flow, so I like talking like James Newbury, the crossfit guy in my podcast, because our first podcast, he was just like, it was all recovery. And I was like, yeah, good message. And so for a lot of people listening, Jing's going to give them those, holy shit, I feel so good on the Jing. And they think it's giving them this energy. But no, it's all of a sudden you're plugging holes and you're not used to the holes being plugged and you're not used to holding onto the water. You're used to constantly needing to replenish the water. Mason Taylor: (00:47:31): I don't know what that is in the athletic community, but it's like energy drinks, coffee. Doing all hardcore Yang breath practises so that you've got some oxygen coursing through your veins and so you start becoming less dependent on these extreme ways to get energy into yourself. But once you've done that, to an extent, not that I don't like these things. They can just be done sustainably. Once you've done those, then you start doing the Qi tonics and then it starts, you really start feeling the quick vitality come back. Mason Taylor: (00:48:04): But it's just a really good way for people to know if you're not feeling like there's a... If you can't feel with the Qi herbs that you've got a really good, slow build of energy occurring, it's like, okay, maybe I don't have the foundation. You can do your Qi herbs, your Qi blend, alongside Jing herbs, Jing formula. There's no rules. You make your own way. I need to make rules so people feel like they have a framework to enter, but really, you can just go slow and steady. Mason Taylor: (00:48:32): There are no rules in tonic herbalism. It's your herbal practise, but then that's why we're here to help you as you go. Change the framework to make it more unique, but I also have to give a general one when you're entering. And yeah, so then at that point the Qi herbs is what you find eventually, it's the bridge. The Shen is what connects you to the heaven. Your virtuous nature, your kindness, your generosity. Which is also really at some point in your athletic career, you realise it's really important to cultivate as well, right? Mason Taylor: (00:49:10): Your ability to accept. Your natural ability, so on and so forth. Staying humble if you're like an absolute maniac and naturally the best ever. That Shen, heavenly, virtuous nature is really a beautiful thing that you're going to need to cultivate as well, so maybe your Shen herbs is something as well that you take in the aftermath in order to process. How did I feel when that person that I used to be better than has started beating me? How am I feeling about that? And processing that. That can be the Shen blend in herbs like Albizzia Flower, Asparagus Root, Reishi, Pearl or Oyster Shell. Again, not plant based, but these are those herbs and they've got a Chen formula there. Mason Taylor: (00:50:00): And it can be part of the Shen formula, because it's not vegan, then just Reishi on its own and even again, like Schizandra is also a really beautiful shen tonic in itself, but you can sit and contemplate, how did I feel about that win? What does that win mean to me? And how can I, what is now my, did it feel vacant? Did it feel amazing? Chen is really that processing stage as well, so that can be really useful and that, but that's the heavenly. The earth based, just being a physical body is the Jing. And so a lot of the time you will see Taoists and people who get really just clicking to auto mode with the herbs, will just constantly be on the Qi tonics. Mason Taylor: (00:50:43): And that's the mushrooms as well, mostly. Munda mushrooms, like the Chaga, Lion's Mane, Poria, Reishi to an extent, Maitake, Shiitake, Turkey Tail, Tremella, they all have a proclivity for regulating water in the body through a spleen function and heavily a lung function, heavily a regulation of Qi through the liver function, so they're seen as those middle to good Shen, Qi, Jing. Qi is really helping you translate and be that bridge between heaven and earth, which is what the Taoists see that we are, bringing virtuous nature. Generosity, kindness, love, infinite love, to the absolute physical realm. And where we've got the capacity through Qi to bridge those two dimensions. Mason Taylor: (00:51:34): And so you'll find people in automatic mode. You'll click into just taking medicinal mushrooms and Qi herbs. And that will just be keeping you, because that just keeps the spark in the machine. Your lifestyle's keeping the machine healthy and not flogging it and recovering. You know you've got a Gong to put in practise and maybe spending time in nature so you're naturally cultivating that Shen a lot of the time, because you have a desire to be as good a person as you possibly could be. Not that good, bad has anything to do with it. Mason Taylor: (00:52:03): And so you just take the Qi to kind of, so that you're getting the most out of your breath, the most out of your food. You have a good diet. You're not too stressed out all the time, so you can actually breathe. You don't have to do crazy where I'm half breathing all the time in order to get that breath. Although they're really cool as well, all of a sudden your whole lifestyle's geared towards keeping the spark in the machine moving and keep everything regulating so you're evolving and just living as harmoniously as possible. Mason Taylor: (00:52:32): And then at times you might spill over and go, cool, I'm in winter now. I'm getting off coffee for 30 days and taking Jing. We've got a 30 days of Jing challenge. And you go, cool, I'm going sit and really consider my kidneys and my fear and look into the deep waters of my body and cultivate that Jing. That kidney water energy where the Jing is kept. You have to look at your mortality at that point, what that means and see what arises from that fear. Feel like, oh, what was useful fear? Just actually keeping you alive. And then where's it irrelevant or irrational fear? So there might be times when you go really deep into the kidney Jing herbs for that emotional intention as well. Mason Taylor: (00:53:17): And then you're kind of like, cool, now I just need to not think about my tonic herbal practise and just click in a order with the mushrooms and the Qi herbs. Or whatever. For a long time, people are going to just be clicking into just, oh cool, I'm just taking Jing herbs. And that's fine as well. Again, there's no rule, but you just got to listen and check in every now and then to adjust. Jansen Andre: (00:53:39): So let's talk about a framework. It's obviously an intuitive kind of practise of taking these herbs, but say for instance someone is constantly jacked and hyped all the time. They're not focusing on their breathing. They're not doing meditation and they're constantly tired. But they want to find that inner Qi and they want to get back to ground zero and get grounded. What would you say, how would they all start to include these to channel that? Mason Taylor: (00:54:11): I mean, okay, so let's look at your really, if you're really looking at longterm, that that's your identity and you don't really know your body and you don't really know the path back to harmony, because you've gone too far off into power lifting or the triathlons or whatever it is. And a lot of the time, and I've been there heavily with my identification of being this perfect, healthy specimen. I've had a long time as a raw foodist, pretty much a vegan vegan, it was kind of where I was coming from. And it was really great for me, but at some point I went way too far off centre into my own ideological dogma. Mason Taylor: (00:54:53): And then I just in tracking back took a long time. And I enjoyed that process. So it's like, if you're willing and wanting to do it on your own, then very good. But it's going to be a slow process and it's going to be a matter of you slowly getting the terminology that can help explain where you're at. Maybe that's a Western terminology, maybe that's a classical Chinese Medicine terminology of whether it's a Yang deficiency, primarily, or a Yin deficiency or maybe it's just like in a hyper way, your inner sympathetic nervous system creates excess cortisol, maybe. Mason Taylor: (00:55:31): It doesn't matter what. You need a terminology and a framework to take you back to centre. And if you're too far off it's just, cut the time and go find a classical acupuncturist or maybe a really good naturopath who can do your markers. And so that way, just to start with, I'll say that, because if you're feeling a bit lost and anxious about it, that's a way, in a grounded way, to do it with tonic herbalism is really good, but it's a big stab in the dark that might not actually hit the specifics for your treatment. Mason Taylor: (00:56:06): Because that's potentially, you're on a trajectory towards early degeneration or not. And so although it might be like a lot of lifestyle factors, like adding in some tonic herbs, starting to getting some Jing yoga in or some Qi Gong into your practise, like all these kinds of things, they're going to be lifestyle things that you're going to want to work on. At the same time, your proclivity and need to go that extreme, is something that you'll need to address. And you need to get really in touch with your body. So although it's not seen as a real symptomatic illness or anything at that point, you want a practitioner. Because you don't get too many opportunities in your life where you clock onto that intent to come back into harmony and live in harmony for longterm, and you want to take advantage of that opportunity really quick and really work with someone to get an understanding of exactly who you are and what your body is and how it relates. Mason Taylor: (00:57:01): And a classical acupuncturist can really help you go like, look, you're... You know, for me, me and a friend, we both are entrepreneurs. One of us is more geared towards a Yang deficiency, the other more towards a Yin deficiency. For me it's a Yin deficiency, for him it's a Yang deficiency. And so, just little things for him are really specific. For Yang it's sitting on the surface of the body and you go and do extreme saunas. You're wasting, you're releasing all of your Yang. And so it's not really a useful thing to do and so maybe getting in the sauna without having that excess sweating. Mason Taylor: (00:57:35): So those are little things that where it's going... And for me it's otherwise. For me it's the end action of the substance and the Yin of the body, is what I'm constantly needing to adjust my lifestyle to cultivating. I'm not someone as well who does run on Yang. I'm a very Yang type person, but then I'm able to see over the last four years, at some point I hit this, I had an identity about being this outspoken, I'm this huge personality and I'm Yang and I'm achieving, but at some point what clicked in, which is something that's on all of my charts, if you look at my human design and my astrology and all those kind of things, at some point I need to come back and do a cave and reflect over the last few years. It's far out. Mason Taylor: (00:58:24): I've been constantly drawn back to just being in darkness and in a hovel and I've kind of judged myself for doing that. And going like, why am I doing this? Why my like is, why am I not out achieving? So on and so forth. But when I start actually working with, I can actually, whether it's through a bit of therapy, a practitioner or majority is just getting my own reflection back into forgiveness of myself and love of myself constantly. I know when it's like, now I need a little click on the ear to stop whinging and get up and do something which you know is right for yourself. Or when it's like, hey, you've got to listen to yourself right now. Mason Taylor: (00:59:04): And in that instance it's because I've gone really towards Yin depletion and so for me then I just kind of, then I need to find my way and to live sustainably so that I don't chronically do that to myself and then have to have these episodes where I just can't see anyone. That's not a healthy way to be. And so you've got to listen. But, and then coming back to the fact that someone's being extreme in the athletic world. Just generally, you're going to want to start getting onto some Jing herbs, because generally, you would have depleted yourself. Mason Taylor: (00:59:40): The Jing formula I've just got there is a neutral balanced Yin Yang. It doesn't throw you through fire in any direction. Generally really good for the population to start, giving you the experience of your kidney water Qi flowing so that you can feel that you're not wasting anymore. You're not leaking it. And then with that you maybe notice a distinction around ah, maybe I should drop some coffee and maybe you can just do some good sleep and then so that's a good entry. Mason Taylor: (01:00:06): And then the mushrooms. Because they're just so all over the place regulating of the body and protecting of the body. It's like a formula, like the Mason Taylor:'s Mushrooms formula, if you want capsules, like the Mushroom M8. And other brands as well. If anyone ever has any questions about other brands, I'm not precious. I just do SuperFeast, because I learned, I had a problem for years and years about talking about my own company. I don't know why, this is my thing. Mason Taylor: (01:00:34): I didn't like having products and felt uncomfortable with it, but I can see people listening to me, listening to this podcast, SuperFeast is there as a place for them to access these really precious herbs so I do just talk about it in the SuperFeast context, but feel free to send me others if you just want me to give you a heads up on different things. Mason Taylor: (01:00:54): The mushrooms are just, they're in every organ. Like a formula like that, they're in every organ. They're immunologically getting yourself potentiated and modulated and so a lot can just start going right when you get onto the mushrooms. And you just start there. And you do two months and you start with a quarter teaspoon of the extract powder and then you maybe get up to a teaspoon. Some people are more sensitive, they like just a half a teaspoon. Some people, whether it's the Mason Taylor:'s or the Jing formula, some people are like, my body wants two heaped teaspoons a day. Is that okay? Mason Taylor: (01:01:28): So, yes. Listen to your body. And that might happen for a week. Sometimes people do that for two months. I took mushrooms, two tablespoons of mushrooms of Chaga and Reishi for two years, basically, straight. Every day. Pretty much. But that was because I'm very extreme. Always very excess too. I found a pendulum, my pendulum doesn't swing so far anymore, but that's my personality and what I needed to do in order to initiate myself into the world that I'm in right now and really understand the mushrooms. But what's important, is as much to listen to that part of you that wants to up the dose, is to listen to that part of you that knows when it's time to down the dose. Mason Taylor: (01:02:10): And not, because the tonic herbs are beautiful and you don't form
We're bringing you a special edition on the podcast today, as Mason steps out of the interviewer seat and is interviewed by Tommy Moore on the Mind Body Plants Podcast. If you've ever wanted to listen to Mason go through the entire SuperFeast apothecary in both poetic and articulate detail; What's in the mindfully curated blends, the Organ systems they nourish, how the herbs are sourced, the seasons they best connect to, and the stories behind the formulations, this episode covers it all. Tommy asks some great questions, and Mason dives deep into the world of Daoist tonic herbalism, discussing the lineage and how these heavenly messengers oscillate through Mind/Body/Spirit to bring healing and longevity. Mason opens up about his decade-long journey with SuperFeast, from grassroots beginnings to the epic company it is has grown into; Still maintaining the same core intentions of supporting people in maintaining wellness and longevity through tonic herbs and medicinal mushrooms. In comparing the western medical system with classical Chinese medicine, this conversation goes many places. Mason lays down what you need to know about Jing herbs, cultivating Qi, Nootropics, Brain health, Di Dao sourcing, and living in harmony with yourself and nature. This episode is the reminder we all need to stand empowered in our sovereign health. "In classical Chinese medicine what you're looking at is the capacity for Qi to transform through a particular Organ system. And so you're looking at supporting that baseline regulatory capacity for inner transformation at all times; The ability for your body to accept and enable change to constantly occur. And you can see how different that clinical approach is going to be. You can see why Western medicine likes to just go, 'Yep, do that, bang. And now we're fixed'. Whereas if you take responsibility for helping someone move through changes in their body and in their life, that's a massive responsibility, and it's harder to be effective. It takes more keeping your finger literally on the pulse. Our medical and wellness system doesn't focus on or value that right now. It seems boring to focus on that constant capacity of 'this too will change'... Why? Because then you can't be right, and you can't dominate". -Mason Taylor Tommy and Mase discuss: Mycology. Tonic herbalism. The Daoist lineage. Yin/Yang cultivation. The culture of SuperFeast. The nature of Adaptogens. The SuperFeast apothecary. Di Dao sourcing and preserving tradition. Superior herbs (lifestyle herbs) and dosage. Autoimmune conditions and medicinal mushrooms. Brain health and nootropic herbs for neuro-plasticity. The journey of SuperFeast; 10 years on from grassroots. Psychedelic mushrooms, micro-dosing and mental health. Cultivating organ health, longevity, and wisdom through herbs. Western medical system and classical Chinese medical system. Mason's personal journey from a uni student starting SuperFeast. MasonTaylor Mason Taylor is the founder of SuperFeast. Mason was first exposed to the ideas of potentiating the human experience through his mum Janesse (who was a big inspiration for founding SuperFeast and is still an inspiration to Mason and his team due to her ongoing resilience in the face of disability). After traveling South America for a year, Mason found himself struggling with his health - he was worn out, carried fungal infections, and was only 22. He realised that he had the power to take control of his health. Mason redirected his attention from his business degree and night work in a bar to begin what was to become more than a decade of health research, courses, education, and mentorship from some of the leaders in personal development, wellness, and tonic herbalism. Inspired by the own changes to his health and wellbeing through his journey (which also included Yoga teacher training and raw foodism!), he started SuperFeast in 2010. Initially offering a selection of superfoods, herbs, and supplements to support detox, immune function, and general wellbeing. Mason offered education programs around Australia, and it was on one of these trips that he met Tahnee, who is now his wife and CEO of SuperFeast. Mason also offered detox and health transformation retreats in the Byron hinterland (some of which Tahnee also worked on, teaching Yoga and workshops on Taoist healing practices, as well as offering Chi Nei Tsang treatments to participants). After falling in love with the Byron Shire, Mason moved SuperFeast from Sydney's Northern Beaches to Byron Bay in 2015. He lived on a majestic permaculture farm in the Byron hinterland, and after not too long, Tahnee joined him (and their daughter, Aiya was conceived). The rest is history - from a friend's rented garage to a warehouse in the Byron Industrial Estate to SuperFeast's current home in Mullumbimby's beautiful Food Hub, SuperFeast (and Mason) has thrived in the conscious community of the Northern Rivers. Mason continues to evolve his role at SuperFeast, in education, sourcing, training, and creating the formulas based on Taoist principles of tonic herbalism. CLICK HERE TO LISTEN ON APPLE PODCAST Resources: Mason Instagram SuperFeast Instagram Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We'd also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Tommy Moore: (00:00) Mason, first and foremost, welcome and thank you for joining me on this podcast. Been following your work for a little while now, and I'm certainly thrilled to be able to welcome you here and to have a chance to speak to you and get a bit of a deep dive into some adaptogenic herbs and mushrooms that I personally take on almost a daily basis. So, before we get into all of that, how do you describe what you do? Mason: (00:28) Yeah, it's been definitely a mixed bag of what I've done in the wellness space. My company, SuperFeast is at this point, I guess what I'm most well-known for nearly, it's going to be 10 years in May that I've had that company and it has evolved somehow despite my flippancy and desire to not be shackled down by the responsibility of business, it's grown to be a very... Yeah, it's a really beautiful, healthy business. I still feel I'd still own completely. So, it's still very grassroots and just ensconced in what my original intentions back in the day were. Before I started the company, I was just in my last year at uni and just trying to find ways to just to have my body be a little less lethargic, and I was a little bit worried the way I saw it. Mason: (01:22) It's like I worried about my trajectory and what I saw, how I was going to be at 80 years old or 90 years old, or even 60 years old. And that kind of spurred me on to, even though I was gung ho and I was jumping into the deep end of extremism of diet and detoxification and just becoming basically an extremist and a purist in the health space. Ultimately, my intention was a real long term sustainable one. And so, I had the juice to kind of go extreme back then, but because my intention is what, where SuperFeast is at still and what kind of the mission or the intent is behind it at the same, what I have for myself, which is to just find whether it's practises or capacity to continually change and evolve with at different times of life, psychologically and physically, and just to find the herb, so on and so forth, that's going to facilitate and support my deepest health intentions to come true. Mason: (02:17) And so, that, for me, when I was in uni studying herbalism, I wanted to potentiate the body. And so, that meant I didn't go for things that were problem-solution kind of herbs. Western herbalism didn't really interest me back then because it was more clinical. You take it for this, take it for that. But Daoist herbalism, the ancient Chinese philosophy and path of the Dao, their herbs were... They had this whole dialogue about cultivating organ health and cultivating the body. And that just really made sense to me because I didn't want to have a problem solution and initial problem-solution approach to my health and life. And that's where SuperFeast is basically at. It's just this gentle, this we source medicinal mushrooms. And when a lot of people know adaptogens in a way that's based on the Daoist tradition. Mason: (03:06) So, it's just make getting them as close to nature as possible and having them be as robust as possible, so that with the same intention that they've had for thousands of years all over the world using herbs for health, it's just to keep you that little bit healthy, go get you on the front foot that little bit more. When you get a little bit more juice in your body, and you're not having to worry about symptoms and degeneration, or even fatigue. Even though these things can still be there in variants, if it's just like a little bit less of that, if you're a little less immune compromised, you don't have to waste your energy or your Qi on surviving. Those symptoms, you can get on the front foot and develop yourself and ultimately, when you get a little bit older, you're not degenerating and hopefully, you've had the power to overcome developmental issues, psychological issues. Mason: (03:51) So, you're a little bit less of an asshole and you're actually someone who's got some wisdom and someone who... It doesn't have to be so reliant on external stuff in order to stay healthy, and that's basically what SuperFeast is. Back in the day, I was like, "No, I just don't want to see any more degenerative disease in the world." And that's still a nice, lofty mission that probably won't ever come true because it's beautiful, it's relating to decay has been bad, but I really was mourning at the, seeing so much unnecessary degeneration and wasting away of the body and not living in harmony with yourself in nature. And so, I'm a really at a point at that SuperFeast, it's just like people have intentions around their health. Mason: (04:38) I don't have an agenda about where that leads them, but through our education, because we have educational courses as well, and about living in harmony with nature and yourself, but then especially the herbs and the medicinal mushrooms that we saw. So specifically, they can really just help the organs flow, cultivate the organs, get the immune system nice and healthy so that there's a little bit less for people to worry about and they can go on, making their health intentions come true and becoming less of an asshole and more of their awesome selves. Tommy Moore: (05:07) I love how you speak to the Daoist tradition because thousands and thousands of years ago, when we didn't have science, we didn't have all of this empirical evidence or clinical evidence about any of these herbal medicines or medicinal mushrooms, but that had practised this for so, so long, and they didn't necessarily need to know what a biochemical was because I guess back then, what they would call a spirit, we would now possibly call a biochemical. And so, I really, really loved this link between science and spirituality, especially when we're talking about mushrooms and herbs, that they can change how we feel. They can change how we act and our behaviour. They can make us feel more connected to each other. Now, this will be the first time that I've spoken about medicinal mushrooms and herbs. So, before we get deeper into science and philosophy, let's start with some basic definitions. What is meant by a herbal tonic? What is meant by a medicinal mushroom, and also what is meant by an adaptogen? Mason: (06:19) Yeah, good order that you've put them in. So, tonic herbs is, that term is a rough translation over from about 2000 years ago, we get the first herbal materia medica, cataloguing herbs and their uses and categorising them. And, this is why I study a Daoist path because it's the ancient Chinese, the ancient health nuts, as I kind of refer to them. At times, they're the ones that documented it and came up with terminology, whereas right now, you don't see a [flowering 00:06:54] just yet of the Australian herbal tradition, because it was verbal. It was a bit more, I guess you'd say more spirit-based versus 3D-based, and that's in a lovely way. The Daoists documented specific, very physical practise-based health practises. Mason: (07:15) And so, since it was written, it's like it's there on offer and able to be utilised, which is a little bit different to a verbal tradition, especially one that's been consciously wiped out and hopefully not forever. And there's beautiful people preserving that and slowly, we own the right to be able to partake in that once we get, how to do that with respect and not just to be treating it as a commodity, which is the worst thing that happens in the wellness scene, in the herbal scene as the things that are based in basically, as you said, spirit, so it shows and the science can be there, but that's doing something following a path in a way that it's complete. I guess holistic is the word that's a bit bastardised, but nonetheless, it's like, we partake in tonic herbalism and we reflect on it based on the entire system of Daoism and reflecting on where the civilization was at, not just take a scalpel, which is what Western herbalism and Western medicine does a lot of time. Mason: (08:11) Just we'll just get a scalpel and just like... We'll take that and we'll leave the rest. And we'll talk a little bit more about that when we get to adaptogens, because that's not a bad thing, taking something out and going, this is an adaptogen used in these scenarios. As long as you leave a thread back to the complete system and where it came from. But, over 2000 years ago, we got the first materia medica by the emperor, Shennong, and it's basically an accumulation of knowledge, thousands of years of knowledge. Many, many people contribute to say, "This is what we know so far." There's three categories of herbs, as far as we kind of practise, which is the inferior herbs or lower herbs. They're the ones that are used for disease states. There's a lot of long-term symptoms. We can damage the body. They're basically using poisons, very good in emergency situations and acute illnesses. Mason: (08:59) And then, middle herbs, regular herbs. They're long-term management of symptoms says still a little bit more... They can go in organs placing those herbs. And then, there's the superior herbs. And the superior herbs can also be used clinically. They are the ones that you can get on the front foot and utilise in the body. The Daoists would say, ``We'd use this to lighten the body or to ward off ageing, ward off premature ageing, to bring the spirit through." So, what is the spirit through is, just imagine, yes, you can develop yourself and use like, say a disease state to gain more perspective and wisdom in life. Mason: (09:36) But if you don't have to have these disease states to be the catalyst for your growth, if you are already on a path of growth, you don't have to spend all this time going and dealing with disease or symptoms, or whatever, like mental health issues, so on and so forth. If you can do that, then you're going to be able to develop yourself psychologically, you're going to be able to work on your perspective in life, you're going to be able to transition through the initiations of life where you kind of get a little bit less about you at some point, more about the community. And that's what the Daoists were interested in. The superior herbs could be used in that instance. There were some of the grandmas for thousands of years had been, grandpas had been putting in the soup to keep everyone healthy without them knowing. Mason: (10:17) So, they're the tonic herbs. So, tonic herbs are those that preserve life, and it doesn't mean a lot of people... I've been doing this a long time now and I've been kind of talking. It's been interesting how do I talk about these and get people engaged with these herbs while respecting them, because it's not just the herbs that you can take as much as you want of. They are like herbal foods, but they're still medicinally active. And the whole point of them is, yes, you can take them and it's not like you're going to... It's hard to do damage with these tonic herbs. And that's why they're the lifestyle herbs. But still, people need to be aware that you're going, you need to go slow with these herbs, and sometimes if you're feeling that you need, then you do trust your instinct to start taking big doses of say an extract powder and do two big teaspoons a day. Mason: (11:05) But then, you need to be able to listen to yourself and that's time to lower that back once again. So, although these are the superior herbs, they're also very active. They're like any food. You're going to want to rotate and keep your instincts alive, but they're the herbs to preserve life. They're the anti-ageing herbs. These are the ones that they use to keep their bones healthy, mind sharp, keep their organs flowing. It's about preserving your life and the Daoist talk about you being made up and everything they made up that your body may be made up of three treasures, especially the three treasures. Mason: (11:40) Your Jing lives in your kidneys. You're given that when you're born. It's how much wax you have to burn through the candle of your life, right? And so, if you burn the candle at both ends, bang, you're going to get rid of that wax. Yes, Western medicine can keep that flame alive, but keeping a flame alive on just a wick and having no substance there for it to burn through, it's not much of a life to live. And that's why a lot of people die for a long time once they get to 50, 60, 70, they're kept alive, but they're dying for ages. We want to avoid that if possible and that's what the Jing herb's about, not bringing that premature ageing strong bones. They're the foundational essence. Mason: (12:16) Qi is the second treasure. Qi is like, you take fuel in, you cultivate Qi, keeps the engine going. Keeps your thoughts moving, keeps your fluids moving. This is what keeps you going through every day of life. It's your breath, it's the food that you're taking in, and you can maintain a lot of vitality and a lot of energy by keeping that Qi cultivated. And then, the final treasure is Shen, which is your spirit and your consciousness that comes through. And as you develop more wisdom, that equates to being able to develop more Shen and so more virtuous nature. So, you genuinely cultivate kindness and forgiveness and loving. And then, note that there's other aspects in from consciousness that come from the heart, especially, but there are other organs that you cultivate. Say, for instance, that are going to bring about the wisdom of having really strong boundaries by your really beautiful boundaries, so on and so forth. Mason: (13:14) So, it's not just all pie-in-the-sky, lovey-dovey shit, quite completely. And that's the theory of Daoism in the organ system, and each organ has its own consciousness. But then, as you keep the Qi going through the organs, the idea is you are not burning through your three treasures. Your Jing, your Qi, your Shen. You cultivate life. That's what tonic herbs are, the superior herbs are. And it contains mushrooms and berries and barks and deer antler velvet, and minerals like pearl. There's some animal ones like a particular type of ant, so on and so forth. And so, in our day and age, they're the ones for like, then nootropics fall into that kind of category a lot of the time. Energy herbs, like ginseng, fall into that category. And a lot of adaptogens fall into that category. Mason: (14:01) So, clinically, an adaptogen in the west was really identified in the 1970s by the Russians. And they classified, let me see if I've still got this, classify the adaptogen herbs as ones that are going to have an accumulative effect on the body. So, the longer you take them, you're going to accumulate benefits and it's good for everyone to be mindful that that's just not linear, the more your take, gets better. At some point, you hit a glass ceiling of how much energy you can have, and the adaptogens then kind of flesh out and can maybe help you modulate the immune system a little bit more, modulate your nervous system a little bit more. So, it's not just getting better in one direction. Mason: (14:41) Once you restore homeostasis within your adrenal, that bottom, I'll talk about the HPA axis in a second, but say your adrenals get back into sync all of a sudden, then you might not keep experiencing more and more benefits from that ginseng or ashwagandha in that same direction. You might start opening up to being able to experience benefits in other directions, if you're not attached to just external gains coming from the adaptogen. So, I just need to flesh that one out there. Second classification of adaptogens is it can create any additional harm or stress to the body. The general rules, taking things like ashwagandha, ginsengs, schizandras, reishis, chagas, these kinds of herbs. For the majority of the population who are symptomatic and are dealing with disease states, they're not going to move you into harm or stress place. They're going to help your body adapt to stress, right? Mason: (15:38) And so, they're regulators. And especially the mushrooms, they're immunological regulators. As well, if you're very sick, you don't just go charging into taking adaptogens. You want to still be... That's a very general kind of classification, as well, and no more harm or stress. And then, the third one I kind of touched on is their regulatory. They have a non-specific action in the body. And so, we generally know that it's going to take cortisol down and the majority of the population's say for ashwagandha cycle, a lot of these herbs, because [everyone's 00:16:11] high. But what about instances where cortisol is low? There are instances where it's actually helping the body get back and increasing that cortisol to a healthy level at appropriate times during the day. Mason: (16:20) So, that's non-specific. That's like the medicinal mushrooms are used in auto-immune conditions. When people look at them like a reishi and cordyceps, they want to be working with a practitioner. This is you with autoimmunity. But you're looking at those herbs and you're like, "Wow, they're really incredible for lifting the immune system, helping us adapt to pathogenic influx, and fight these things off." But then, there's really solid instances and data coming through around people who are really excessive in their immune activity to the extent where the immune system attacking itself in autoimmune conditions and mushrooms are used to regulate that immune function down. Too very handy having such sophisticated medicine doing that, rather than just using a drug to suppress the immune system. You're going one step further and going where's the trigger site for this unhealthy flurry of pro-inflammatory immune activity and let's go and start regulating the immune system down on that level in an inappropriate way. Mason: (17:18) So, you're not taking the whole immune system down. You might just be taking a certain part of the immune system down and maintaining surface immunity, right? When you take complete immune suppressants, you're going to see... And then, you're going to be more likely to get sick. That's what an adaptogen is, those three things. No additional harm or stress to the body, accumulates benefits over the time, non-specific activity in the body. And the medicinal mushrooms kind of fall under that banner of a tonic herb, right? And then, some of these herbs in the tropics, adaptogens and nerve veins, and that they're kind of have the Western herbalism, we'll kind of comment on what some of them are, but they're not all adaptogens because some of them are just pure nourishes, right? Some of them like a tremella mushroom, truly beautiful for lubricating the lungs, therefore lubricating the skin. If you've got dry skin, it's just such a nutritive, gentle herb. Mason: (18:11) And they use a lot in post-surgery or disease states just to get a lot of juice back into the body, and fluid back in the body, and yin essence back into the body, as well as people that just value beauty and vibrance in their skin. It's not really an adaptive fact. They will discover it has slightly adaptogenic elements because it's a medicinal mushroom and feeds the immune system. But right now, it's just seen as a nutritive. So, it's not clinically adaptogenic, but it is a tonic herb. It is a herb that can be used to cultivate Jing, Qi, Shen, which is that's what a tonic herb is. So, the mushrooms come into their medicinal mushrooms, not the culinary portobello kind of brown mushroom ones that you get on your pizza. Mason: (18:49) I'm not talking about psychedelic mushrooms. We are talking about generally tree-born mushrooms. Those mushrooms like shiitake, maitake, agaricus, poria, Reishi, lion's mane, cordyceps, is grows off caterpillars. We can't do that in terms of a product. It's generally going to be a... For us, it's a fermented cordyceps in a VAT, so that's a vegan one, but that's a kind of an example of a nontree-born medicinal mushroom. But, that's generally going to find medicinal mushrooms. The mycelia is going to grow up through the tree and utilise the carbohydrates and basically, eat those carbohydrates. And then, essentially, don't want to personify it and humanise it too much, but essentially, the genitals come out and then we pick those genitals where the spores come out of and utilise those. Mason: (19:45) And they're so amazing for the body. They're just so regulatory, whether it's immunity, nervous system, endocrine system. And clinically, what the possibility of using these in real specific instances is just endless, but getting onto them preemptively, I mean, it's at this point, it's just too good not to be taking medicinal mushrooms. I think that's a long form answer to your question. Tommy Moore: (20:13) That's perfect. You've answered that brilliantly. Yeah, and you're so right. There's so much about Western science and medicine that is almost exclusively looking at symptomatology. And of course, this can be effective in short term treatment or acute treatment of particular diseases and getting back to somewhat of a baseline. But what do you do from there? There's so many people who get unwell, say with cancer or a degenerative illness, and all they're doing is managing their symptoms and to me, that doesn't make any sense at all. It makes sense to the point of not causing further damage, but it isn't encouraging people to get healthier and healthier over time. And so, I appreciate how these medicinal herbs and mushrooms are working on our body as they do have that accumulative effect. They're helping us over time to get better and optimise our organ function and our circulatory system over time so that we can firstly, get to baseline and then go beyond that, because science can be quite slow in these fields. Tommy Moore: (21:26) Often when we're trying to raise money or get funding for research, it has to treat something. And the way you described it earlier with the inferior herbs that you're looking more at disease states and getting someone to baseline level seems to be how our working science and clinical research at the moment. It has to be for someone who's already ill. And so, the Western way of looking at things is almost waiting for that clinical research to prove its efficacy. But as we mentioned earlier, there's probably thousands upon thousands of documented evidence through the Daoist traditions that prove that efficacy without having to go through the Western clinical path. Tommy Moore: (22:10) But there's so much merit in these medicinal herbs and mushrooms because they can have such a huge impact on our health and our longevity and optimising the way our body works and improving our brain function and our performance. And it really is multidimensional how they do exert their effects in our body. And you began to allude to the anatomy of the mushroom being the mycelium and the fruiting body, because I find it incredibly interesting how both plants and animals evolved from fungus. To understand their anatomy and understand the constituents is really helping us to understand ourselves and how our body functions. So, can you speak to the anatomy of a mushroom and what are some different types of mushrooms and the different parts of the mushrooms that are working to help us? Mason: (23:05) Yeah, I mean, this is a huge conversation. I got to the point in studying mushrooms, that I was like, there's a reason that the school of, the discipline of mycology exists because it is its own profession and I'm not going to be able to do it justice. I kind of, at one point I was like, cool, I am going to stick to my lane of tonic herbalism because once again, we've got a little bit further down the track and everyone's like, "Can you identify this mushroom and this mushroom?" And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I definitely do not want to and cannot do that." But in terms of, it's a good question because mushrooms still have an overall stigma and people relate to the word mushrooms as in that's an appropriate blanket term. Mason: (23:57) Whereas mushrooms are, you think of the plant kingdom and you go, "Yeah," and you know immediately you understand that there's diversity in the plant kingdom. You think in the mushroom kingdom and people are slowly starting to open up and realising that there's more, if not for people's perception of just as much diversity within the mushroom kingdom, different types of mushrooms, different evolutionary parts, styles of reproducing, so on and so forth, vastly different environments, way more so than plant matter with living within the mushroom kingdom. And so, the biggest organisms on the earth, besides the earth itself, have been mushrooms, all of a sudden you can see what our mushrooms are like. We don't even really know. There's all debate about whether they came from the spores, or came from space. Mason: (24:51) And I know there's definitely been evidence to show that up, right up as far as you can get in the atmosphere, pretty much their spores and sitting up there. And I think that the work, the studies have been done on saying that seeds and spores can survive the vacuum of space. And so, there's all these weird and wonderful theories about them being aliens coming in and helping to... And we know that fungus basically, kind of up there, just after maybe water had such a pivotal role on helping literally everything evolve and everything is, [bay 00:25:28] is reliant on land and is reliant on that fungal system. They're helping whether it's the procreation, whether it's the sprouting of a seed, you see the mycelium within this particular spore, billions of spores, trillions of spores, just sitting dormant within the soil. And you see these symbiotic relationships as that's perf as the seed and the spore, as well as other conditions align that the seed will start to sprout. And then, you'll see a collaborative effort from that spore starting to sprout, all the mycelia coming up and finding. So, the actual body of the... Mason: (26:03) ... its sprout or the mycelia coming up and finding, so the actual body of the mushroom coming up and helping basically encase and, again, not my area of expertise, but the way I romantically talk about it, create a womb for that seed, and go down and extract minerals from deeper down, and feed that up into the tree, and then be involved within basically that interconnectedness of a forest and interconnectedness of many elements of the world running up in through the trees. And you can see, once the symbiotic relationship evolves through helping to procreate and create a nursery, basically. And then once that tree is an existence, you see a [mycorrhizal 00:26:42] relationship where you'll see the little spindly bits coming off of the mushroom cells. They can drill essentially into the wood, and then they release enzymes so that they can then basically digest externally and then get access to those carbohydrates because there's underground darkness. There's no access to light, so the mushrooms need to get access to their energy source, the carbohydrates, in another way, and that's how they do that. Mason: (27:09) And then from there, continues to be a collaborative effort in terms of, for many trees, the mycelium growing in through, and then sometimes sprouting out, and then as well as those mushrooms and the mycelia that just sprout their own mushrooms, coming straight up from the soil. So in terms of what they are, I mean very genetically close to humans, mushrooms. We've definitely co-evolved. That's where you can see the immune system seems literally hardwired. So a lot of people know that now we can see we have the endocannabinoid system, it seems like we're actually hardwired some way to have cannabis in our diet, whether it's regularly or not regularly, or just having a top up, or just being around the plant. It's the same way with the way particular [immunopaths 00:27:55] work, where you're taking in compounds from mushrooms. And because we've co-evolved, you can see that the immune system is there waiting to have particular receptors so it can identify fungal invasion and then take it to places where it can invade it off. Mason: (28:14) Whereas in the medicinal mushrooms, the tree mushrooms, you take that in and, because it's got a high molecular weight, it'll bypass digestion, get into the gut, and then hit immune cells within the lymph tissue in the gut. And it's like a mystery shopper vibe, or it's like playing war games, where we're going to war ... the immune system's like I'm going to war with this, but it's not an actual threat that's coming in. And so what happens is you take on that beta-glucan within the mushroom, and then that macrophage cell will pass through particular pathways and go deeper into the immune system, metabolise that compound, and then spit it out, but it happens to be what it spits out is in perfect formation to hit deeper immune receptors within the innate immune system, which is a bit deeper to get into a constitutional level like that. And then what you see happening is rather than an activation or stimulation of the immune system, you actually see ... Stimulation was the word I meant to use there first, you actually just see an activation of the immune system. Mason: (29:18) Whereas the lights start turning on, the intelligence starts turning on, an irregulatory capacity can start to occur. And it's just too perfect, those pathways. And it can happen with other substances, but it doesn't seem to happen with such efficacy. And it's not to say that there's definitely indigenous tribes who hadn't identified this and weren't reliant on tree mushrooms, but it's just too perfect. And so we're utilising that, but I mean I've just danced around what I do know about mushrooms, and then obviously taken it back to their implications around herbal medicine and human consumption, which is what I'm comfortable with. But it's a big, wonderful world and I think there's a lot of nostalgia there. At the moment, you can see mushrooms are going off, whether it's culinary, lots of people are back-buying shiitakes and even lion's manes, and it's really getting into mycology pages on Instagram and just going off, the weird and wonderful world of mushrooms. And so it's definitely the wave's broken on everyone. Mason: (30:21) And huge Facebook pages, amateur identification groups, people going out and wanting to harvest their own mushrooms. It's a huge little underground thing now, and just even around here, in Byron, there's a few specialists mushroom harvesters that deliver those to some of the more fancy or progressive cafes or restaurants, and just chefs doing really cool things. Yeah, it's just nostalgic and for me, offering medicinal mushrooms to people, that's what basically I see happening is they're like, "Oh man, that feels good. It feels really good being on those mushrooms." They just feel it's very protective, it's a very safe place to be. And it just feels like we just had such a deficiency of connection to that world, that mushroom world, so it's nice to see people waking back up to it. Tommy Moore: (31:10) Yeah, definitely. And just to continue that topic of this wonderful, intricate interconnectedness or this symbiotic relationship that we have with everything else and that everything else has with us, because it's something like 92% of trees depend on the mycelial network to exchange nutrients and to have conversations with each other. So the trees almost represent our organs and the exchange of nutrients that happens at each of those organs, and the mycelial network is, I guess, like our neural network, and our central nervous system, and peripheral nervous system that's all working together in this beautiful harmony, and creating this wonderful symphony that is our human body. I suppose, for some people, this might sound a little bit woo-woo or spiritual, but I guess it is a little bit like that. Mason: (32:04) It is a bit, and look, there's a lot you got to ... As I said earlier, I'm quite romantic sometimes when I talk about these things and I'll just shoot past what's been shown within the data. I'm in a good place with our herbal tradition because I walk a very traditional path and chose not to become a practitioner, but rather I work with a lot of practitioners. I have a lot of practitioners coming onto my podcast. We always advise people once we get past a certain lifestyle. It's like if someone is sick and all of a sudden it's no longer just getting good sleep, and getting hydrated, and making some food changes, if that's not an appropriate thing at the moment because their symptoms have gone beyond just having that advice, that's when it also goes beyond tonic herbalism in terms of going, "Just take this and this will help." So because I've created that for myself, yes, the scientific literature is slowly catching up to what's known, and that's fine because you just get realistic about how the Western mentality works, and it's going to require that legitimization, and it's going to be scrutinised. Mason: (33:20) And sometimes it is rightfully scrutinising because the wellness scene, and I'm guilty of this back when I first started out, you get a little bit over excited, you get a little bit counter-culture, and you start just saying these extreme things, which perhaps are rooted in truth, but you start saying them with no nuance, with such conviction, when maybe you're saying it with conviction maybe because you were in a group that believes it or because your person that you idolise says it, and you haven't actually gone back to the source of why that's been said, and so you don't know where someone might be taking a little bit of liberty to say something that's whatever. You're not at the source of it. So it's a good balancing measure, I find, but nonetheless, I mean, for me, it's just like the grandma's not scientifically adding Poria mushroom and reishi mushroom into a broth. You don't need that scientifically validated. Maybe toxicology reports are really good. People can make sure that there's no significant interactions with drugs that people are on in the family. Mason: (34:25) But at some point, why I like the herbs is it gets you perceptive of your body. And I like sourcing in a particular way that's [Di Dao 00:34:34], where the herbs are grown as closely as possible, if not wild, in consortium with the elements around them. Living on wild spring water or completely rural areas. And people can go to superfeast.com.au and see photos and get videos of me up there, high mountains or low valleys. It's just in such a shit to get to these places in China. And why do we go to China? Because no-one's growing these tonic herbs. And you can't grow Di Dao these herbs wild on wild wood, say for the mushroom instance. And the other thing about Di Dao is the spore or the seed needs to come from the microclimate. So in that textbook I told you about earlier, the Materia Medica, [Shennong Ben Cao Jing 00:35:19]. And he says you need to go to this province and in this microclimate, that's where you get the best reishi. That's where you get the best [Schisandra 00:35:27]. Mason: (35:27) And so that's what I do. That's what we do. We can look at doing it elsewhere and in other ways, but you're not going to get the best. And I want to preserve that tradition. That's just what I'm doing. And there's other options out there. And then we test for metals, and aflatoxins, and pesticides, and all those things at TGA Labs, and so it's an extremely clean product you're going to be getting every single time. I mean when you start connecting, you're talking about there's that crossing over of spirit and science, at some point, it's rather than even crossing them over, if you have the capacity to hold your awareness of each at the same time is when you start getting this beautiful integration, you have respect, real deep ... that's not right, reverence of both of those spaces, rather in the beginning, it's nice to try and watch where they splice over. We were talking about this. Science is explaining that that's the spirit, that must be what spirit is, you watch the mind again take over. Whereas if you can just hold this spaciousness within yourself and respect both paths, and you hold them in your mind, and in your heart, and then in your gut together without trying to layer them over each other, all of a sudden you become this bridge of awareness of where the crossover is, and you don't need to try and do it too consciously. Some people are specialising in that, and it's really fascinating, but for your own benefit, because the science and the way our culture's bent, we'll generally take all the spirit and the romance out of that style of herbalism. And if you're constantly looking for gains and outputs, you go back and you check in with those things to associate yourself every now and then. It's good to document what actually happened and how they hit that goal. Maybe the herbs contributed or you can definitely see an increase, or you start taking it and you've got an aura ring on, or something like that, and you immediately see you're able to sleep longer and deeper because you're taking a herb. That shit is epic. I absolutely love it. Mason: (37:27) But nothing beats saying when you get onto Jing Herbs, talking about Jing being the kidney foundations, you've been exhausted. You might be doing panels of cortisol levels because you might have a practitioner who lucky enough is into adaptogens, because they like measuring the HPA access, the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis, you know that if you've got that healthy, that axis in your body, that you are able to handle stress with much more efficacy, and therefore they get you on adaptogens, and they test your panels, and they go, "Wow, you're actually getting better." Now, that's all well and good, but they might get a new one, we've got a formula called Jing, it's just replenishing when people are exhausted. We get them replenishing back those foundations. Now yes, getting those inputs and going wow, your mind can go, "This thing is effective. We like doing that," but nothing beats your capacity to observe you building back and cultivating the functions of your organs and the flow of your chi yourself. That can never be forgotten within your body. You develop a very deep memory, and part of that memory is wow, I can do this. Mason: (38:38) This isn't me going to a practitioner or me just taking a herb, and that practitioner or herb doing something for me. Those are good, but we don't want to do that our whole lives because that can excessively form a dependence externally. And we don't want to become too prudish in rejecting those kinds of things either because that will lead to extremism, going, "No, I never need to go and see a doctor. I never need to go. I can do it all myself," and that's when people can get into shit in the extreme wellness community, or conspiracy theory community, just that excessive world. If you can start though just to watch the fact that you are partaking in a practise, which is say herbalism or whatever, slow, gentle movement, energetic practise, you're meditating, and you watch yourself cultivate that energy and get a little bit more space from when you react to a situation, you're able to, with more ease, get yourself up out of bed in the morning, and go move, and get that yang energy moving. Mason: (39:38) And then you're able to consciously come down and descend with the yin energy at night, and really participate in making your sleep practise better. That's all you, and even though you'd made to be taking a herbal, this Jing formula, you feel yourself building back that kidney function, which then correlates to adrenals, HPA axis, not feeling as exhausted, but it installs a sense of sovereignty and not dependence. And that's why it's nice for you to be able to go into a tradition that's grassroots and folksy, because it doesn't excessively separate you from your capacity to self-regulate, which is what the full excessive Western model does. It just creates divides and cuts things. It's a scalpel. It's just a scalpel. It's what they do in anatomy, they just cut things apart, and they can't relate then to a part of the body, like the knee relating to the neck, or the liver relating to the nervous system. They just don't get it because they've already got a scalpel and they've cut through all the fascia that connects the whole body. Mason: (40:46) And they haven't attempted to understand the body as a whole, which is super useful at times, and super not at other times, which is why there's epidemics of degenerative disease, and metabolic disease, and people wasting away, and people just not having any capacity to look after themselves in their older age, which is bullshit, and it's extremist, and it's a dangerous perspective. It doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's why we need more mature people, people that aren't married to an institutionalised way of thinking, they're not dying on the hill just because they've been educated in a certain way. It's just such a boring, immature, way of looking at the world. And I don't know who these people think they are. The amount of all-knowing people on the internet, I think, is such a crock of shit. And I think it's the benefit for everyone, why I like using these herbs, I talk about becoming less of an asshole and more of an awesome, genuine self. I talk about myself specifically a lot. I definitely don't feel any ... Mason: (41:53) Just the next trap is feeling the superiority because you're someone that can hold that middle place. It's like no, that's another little trap there. But generally, why I like the philosophy of tonic herbalism is because it can make people not only malleable, it can keep you agile. Doesn't mean as you get more into yourself and go along this path, which so many people are doing, millions, you become more principled in your perspective but you become agile within that principle. You're not projecting. As the organs get into flow and you develop, in general, through life, which is the whole point of these herbs is to help you develop through life, through different stages. And some stages, you just need to go into fully in order to get that perspective of wow, now I can integrate that and go down another path, or go into another stage. But the whole point of these herbs is to support that development so we have people who have wisdom and we don't have these people who get so externally identified with a label, or with a profession, or with an institution that becomes their identity for life. Mason: (43:12) And therefore, I find that person to be really boring and I find it boring when I do it. And what you want, I think, is just to go on a malleable path and just find what self agency means to you. And that's all we're doing through the herbs. That's all I can hope for. I don't necessarily have an agenda anymore because I just don't assume to know what's right for anyone out there. So that's why I'm also, I feel really open and welcoming whenever anyone here is like, "This is what I want to work on in myself," and I'm like, "Yeah, amazing." Just having a health intention, and if you trust yourself, and go in that direction of an intent, and develop yourself, and stay malleable, the whole idea of the herbs is just to uncrack that stuckness as much as possible, lighten you up so that you can further develop, and same with exercise and hydration, sunlight, and all those good things. But yeah, it's good. There've been people getting perception, which can't ever be taken away. Tommy Moore: (44:20) Yeah, there are too many people who are very much self identified and there is a huge place for certain herbs and mushrooms to, I guess, dissolve this sense of self identity and really move away from this man made self, and be more perceptual and sensitive to bodily sensations, and be more connected to yourself. I actually want to divert this conversation- Mason: (44:49) [crosstalk 00:44:49] psychedelic mushrooms as well, go into that conversation as well. Tommy Moore: (44:51) Well absolutely. Yeah, it's interesting that you bring that up because I do volunteer for a charity called Mind Medicine Australia, and they're actually looking at psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy for mental illness. Mason: (45:04) How far along are they? Mind Medicine Australia, are they doing the certifications? Is that right? Tommy Moore: (45:11) Yeah, so we're in discussion with the TGA at the moment, so we're in the rescheduling process. There's an interim decision that's been made. So I know CBD has been accepted in that interim decision, [crosstalk 00:45:23]- Mason: (45:24) You can put me in touch. Who's heading it? Because I'd love to chat with them a little bit [crosstalk 00:45:30]. Tommy Moore: (45:30) Yeah, totally. So it's Tania de Jong and Peter Hunt. So they're the two co-founders, but we've got a huge advisory board, from researchers, and philosophers, and people all over the world who are looking at this pretty closely. I know a lot of people in the States are, people like Rick Doblin, or Dennis McKenna, or people like that. Mason: (45:50) Oh man, I'm so keen because this area is massive. I mean this is where people ask me all the time, "And what about psychedelic mushrooms?" and it's the same. And psychedelic mushrooms, brought it up on my podcast recently, I had someone who really explored psychedelic mushrooms, and I'm like, "Oh man, everyone always thinks just by osmosis, I'm going to be taking a lot of psilocybin-containing mushrooms," and the guy who was there, he's like, "I would never think that. I can tell straight away." And I'm not saying, "Yeah, because you're not conscious, man. You can tell that for sure." But I do get that, people like, "Oh yeah, well where can I get the psilocybin psychedelic mushrooms? You must be into them. Let's talk about them." I'm like I've got good things to say, but like mycology, I do stick to my lane now. Mason: (46:41) And then you're working in the ... And the benefit of having that angle is it opens me up to going, "Yeah, cool." And then I'll talk to people like Tanya and yourself, who have actually got the insight of what's what's going on. I like just sitting on the sidelines, to an extent, and just be an observer of that, and just chat about it, because I mean we've been talking a lot about suicide just behind the scenes here, and on the podcast, it's been coming up. Anyway, I won't go into it right now, but just even for that preventative, I'm pretty sure ... Do you guys have that as a focus around [crosstalk 00:47:22]? Tommy Moore: (47:22) Yeah, I mean the whole spectrum of mental health really within Australia, we look at the stats, we look at the lack of treatment options, and then we look at the statistics based on what we're seeing with psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy in trials that are happening all over the world. And the neuroimaging side of things, like Robin Carhart-Harris and David Nutt are doing over in Imperial College London. Mason: (47:43) Who are they? The neuroimaging? Tommy Moore: (47:46) Yeah, absolutely. So David Nutt and Robin Carhart-Harris are leading a lot of the trials over in Imperial College London. So they're, I guess, head of the Centre for Psychedelic Research as far as I'm aware. So their centre focuses on the action and clinical use of psychedelics with a particular focus on researching the treatment of depression. And they've done some really, really interesting studies there, obviously looking at the psychedelic state and what's happening at the level of the mind, or sorry, I should say the level of the brain in terms of neuroimaging, and also doing very interesting comparisons between the psychedelic state and the meditative state. They've done some comparisons of neuroimaging between Buddhist monks who have had 10,000 hours or more practise of meditation, and then comparing that to what the brain looks like during psychedelics, and some very, very awesome comparisons that they're finding and the similarities in terms of ego dissolution, and moving away from this mind-made self. But I'm certainly more than happy to chat about this. Mason: (48:56) I was saying before, when you were talking about the mushrooms somewhat acting ... They act like an immune system. You can see tree-based immunological compounds moving between the mycelia between certain trees and sick trees, and also acting like a nervous system. My download, when I was on a medicine journey years and years ago, was that the mushrooms more relate to the fascial system. And the fact that within the Chinese herbal tradition, the mushrooms are seen as fluid regulators, and regulators of decay as well, they help move decay from the body, and allow it to be just metabolised and transformed. And I just started realising if you look at fascia in the body, just the biggest organ in the body, it's not skin, it's the fascia, and it's now I think technically classified as an organ, and it's such a regulating organ. And if you can maintain, as well as everything else, fascial health, you have a really good chance at staying really ... you have a high ability to stay more adaptable within your physicality. And I see that there's this energetic element to it, that it helps you just integrate experiences. Mason: (50:17) And if you can stay connected in different parts of your body, which is likely you can see there almost being this photon transfer through the fascia in the body, and therefore how much light there is based on ... information there is based on light. And you can see that you can have information transfers to your body, therefore your body's going to be able to stay, basically what I can see, up to speed on what's going on elsewhere, and you can stay more unified as a whole. And then when I started bringing in mushrooms to the say the plant medicine community, and started seeing just how many of my friends, whether they were serving or whether they were regularly going into ceremonies, just felt a significant impact of taking medicinal mushrooms pre and post, pre especially, just to prepare your body and also ensure that you're not going to destroy your nervous system, that you've got this robustness to get through sometimes just how hardcore these journeys can be, but as well, the medicinal mushrooms afterwards to support the process of integration, huge, man. Mason: (51:19) It was massive and it was this huge missing link. And I think as well, for anyone, it just goes to show it's not just plant medicines, when you're doing anything that's deep cathartic, and you're doing deep work with a therapist, whether it's plant medicine, you're deep diving in your yogic meditative practices, and so on and so forth, you can't just stay deep in these huge mind-exploding experiences. You can't get reliant, I think, long term on that being what's going to fix you or heal you. You go deep, you release the pressure valve, hopefully reduce some acute symptomatology, and then you will need to be able to catch yourself back up on ... If you've blown yourself out into the sky and you've gone deep into your psyche, you need to be able to hit that middle- Mason: (52:03) Blind yourself out into the sky and you've gone deep into your psyche. You need to be able to hit that middle ground and come back to your lifestyle and your personal everyday practises, your own meditative practise, your own gentle movement practise and your own herbal practise in order to ensure that you're staying level and not becoming, again, externally reliant. Can happen on Western medicine, can happen on these plant medicines. It can happen with whatever, deep dive therapy, deep dive meditations. And, that's, where's the self agency. And that's where I really find the mushrooms to be super useful. And generally the tonic herbs, they're massive, and they are now that you see practitioners of all lights utilising them and getting their clients on these tonic herbs, as well as ensuring that they've just got their lifestyle factors rock solid. And you've got this constitutional discipline and the way you live your life to give yourself these basics, so as well as sleep and diet and all these things, because it's necessary, if you want to evolve in these areas, it's just paramount. Otherwise you can just keep on. You see all the good research in the beginning, because it's under watchful eyes and experts, whether it's a Shaman or whether it's a practitioner, they're a psychologist utilising psychedelic mushrooms or MDMA in all these other places. And there's a facilitation process, but if you aren't moving along on your own accord, if you keep on relying externally, you can start and you don't do so under a real watchful eye and someone that isn't just thinking, yeah, the more, the better, you come back and we'll keep you moving ahead using this thing, you start to loop in these subconscious kind of states rather than actually having the capacity to move slowly beyond them. Mason: (53:43) And that's just important for everyone to remember that it always, from my perspective it's why I like the tonic herbals. It's like at some point, don't be relying on the external practise or the substance. Come back to your lifestyle. It's like the Buddhists and they're like chop wood carry water, that's where the magic happens when you've been chopping wood carrying water for 20 years and 30 years. And then you get a little insight, then you move past it and you just keep on doing your chop wood, carry water. Everyone needs to remember that it is in this scene because everyone's suckling at the teat of someone who does it for me. To get the research out there that discovers the therapy, that's going to help fix me inside. And I relate to it a lot in my early days as a big seeker. Mason: (54:24) And it's just a really important reminder, I think for everyone to just constantly and now, if you can, as soon as you can, land with two feet on the ground and just keep your feet on the ground in that disciplined state. And I think then you can really start unlocking the magic. And if you're feeling dependent, unless you're in a dependent state where you find it's a really useful collaboration that you are working with it to get your head above the ground so you can work. But if you're feeling quite stable and you're still ambiguously, keep going back to look for some, there's got to be something more there for me, it helped me so much before. And now there must be other stuff. It's probably that seeking energy without acute symptomatology is there. It's probably time to just put all that aside for probably a few years. And so, anyway, just want to throw that out there. Tommy Moore: (55:17) Yeah, absolutely. And just while we are on the topic of psychedelic mushrooms, I do think it's important that I bring across what is the therapeutic mechanism of something like psilocybin and psilocybin being the active constituent in psilocybe mushrooms. Now, I don't want to lose anyone in the chemistry of psilocybin because as we know, scientists and researchers are always using complex names. So stay with me as much as you can. I'll do my best to simplify some of the complex words that I'm going to discuss. Tommy Moore: (55:51) But when we are studying the mind and studying the brain through material science, we do need to understand our limitations. We know that changes in brain activity or changes in blood redistribution within different areas of the brain can cause alterations in our state of consciousness, but we can't necessarily say, or don't necessarily know for sure where or how they exist. That is to say how we consciously perceive them. Tommy Moore: (56:18) So firstly, let's just recognise the distinction or disassociate brain and mind. Do thoughts simply appear as electrical signals? Can we see thoughts through observing the brain? So I guess the three therapeutic mechanisms of something like a psychedelic mushroom, or all classic psychedelics being things DMT or LSD, neuroplasticity, functional connectivity, and modulation of the default mode network, and they're all correlating positive therapeutic outcomes of being more connected. I alluded to earlier, this feeling of connection to other people, to the greater good, to the universe, to ourselves, to everything. Feeling boundless, wonder, ineffability and a sense of gratitude for this human experience. And I did speak to the sense of ego disillusion, which is often referring to a psychedelic experience. And that is an experience that is beyond this level of mind, that we so often associate with our default state. Now, of course, people are going to have their own connotations and associated perceptions of the word ego, but let's start with that first therapeutic mechanism that I mentioned, which is neuroplasticity. And I know neuroplasticity can be linked with other herbs and medicines like lion's mane. Mason: (57:46) There's another one. I completely mind blanking ironically when talking about herb's for neuro-plasticity. There was another one the other day and someone was using it. Maybe we're talking about niacin, we're talking about maybe the use of Ginkgo biloba rather than niacin. So more for that diluting factor using herbals rather than B3. So yeah, lion's mane, I think that's quite well established and there's a bajillion people now, thankfully doing lion's mane and microdosing in their own little settings. And I'm sure they're all legal. I was talking about neuroplasticity the other day in terms of a woman doing a masters on adaptogens and mental health. And she's a naturopath. And just going through the mechanisms in which neuro-plasticity is maintained. And it was nice because people use lion's mane and these nootropics. These other nootropics, herbal nootropics like ashwagandha and Rhodiola and Macuna and to an extent Ginkgo biloba. They use them in a way that's either healing. Mason: (58:59) I use them on my mum on a traumatic brain injury, an acquired brain injury aneurysm. Or for study and mental output and mental acuity. And so they're good, not saying [inaudible 00:59:13] but then there's no grounding factor of just, if you can maintain your neuro-plasticity, you are less likely to find yourself in roadblocks that stop your psychological development or stop you from hopefully, we'll have to look at the data, but stop you from getting a neuro degenerative disease state later in life. And so that is exciting because I had this really calm relationship to neuro-plasticity, which is what I think it needs. I think the nootropic and the neuroplastic seen as far as herb's needs, needs to calm chop wood carry water association as well. So yeah, I'm excited about that side as well. Sorry for cutting you off. Tommy Moore: (59:56) No, that's all good. Yeah. Just on neuroplasticity, I guess it is quite adaptogenic in a way, because the way most people think of neuroplasticity is just getting smarter or, very linked with the nootropic side of things like alertness and stimulation, but neuroplasticity in much the same way adaptogens work, is that it's progressive over time, you don't grow these neural pathways in a day or even a couple of days, it happens over weeks or months. And so if we're talking about neural pathways in the sense of a thought pattern and these neural pathways that are built up over time, it may be a negative bias that we have that is then becoming subconscious because we're using that pathway so often becomes easier to access. And it becomes part of our subconscious state or our default state when we're not necessarily doin
Today on the SuperFeast podcast, Mason chats to holistic health coach and nutrition response testing practitioner Vanessa Fitzgerald about her healing journey with addiction, Orthorexia, Hashimoto's, and navigating her platform as a wellness influencer. What I loved most about this conversation was Vanessa's realness, discussing everything from her 13-year Adderall (prescription amphetamine) addiction to the pervasiveness of Orthorexia among people working in the wellness industry. Her candid approach to wellness is something Vanessa's known for, often using her influencer platform to talk about the uncomfortable truths that come with all facets of mind/body healing. Vanessa opens up about her work as a holistic wellness practitioner and why she's so passionate about helping others heal themselves from addiction, PCOS, mental illness, and auto-immune, the way she did herself. Make sure you tune in for this authentic conversation. "We're not healing you, you're healing yourself, but as practitioners, we're guiding you there. When I found this, I had never felt that good in my life. All my auto-immune issues started to reverse, and everything just felt better. And this is why I am so passionate about what I do". - Vanessa Fitzgerald Mase and Vanessa discuss: Adderall detoxing. Autoimmune healing. Perfectionism burnout. Addiction and withdrawal. Healing the gut; food as medicine. SOT chiropractic technique for post addiction. Nutrition Response Testing for the nervous system. Supporting the brain and nervous system through withdrawals. Orthorexia; a common eating disorder in the wellness industry. Ashwagandha and other tonic herbs for healing and rebuilding post addiction. Who is Vanessa Fitzgerald? Vanessa Fitzgerald (Vee) is a health & life coach, recipe developer, ex yoga teacher, and overall wellness wizard. Her practice (VeesHoney) is about living a vulnerable, honest, authentic, and vibrant life with the help of the right foods to bring your mind and body back into balance. Through her platform, Vee hopes to help individuals cultivate their best selves with natural beauty tips, healthy recipes, clean ingredients, and various tips and tricks to help people reach their goals. Diagnosed with PCOS at age 19, celiac disease at 23, Hashimoto's at 25, and having an Adderall addiction for 13 years, Vee has had to overcome some massive health obstacles. Learning to eat the right foods for her body changed her life, and she now shares this passion, helping her clients achieve the same. Her unique practice focuses on the individual, working with each client to create a wellness plan designed to enhance every aspect of life. Her theory is that everything must be done with moderation—even including moderation itself. Vanessa attended NYU as an undergrad, studied yoga at the Bikram Yoga College of India, where she received her teaching certification. She studied at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition, where upon graduation, she worked as a private health coach in New York City. Vee attended the Biomedex Institute, where she trained in live blood education and furthered her studies in Whole food supplements, homeopathic medicine, and Nutrition Response Testing at the Ulan School. Vanessa has successfully reversed her Hashimotos diagnoses, is thriving with PCOS without the help of medications, and has kicked a 13 year Adderall addiction to the curb through a healing plan of organic whole foods and supplements. You can follow Vee's inspiring journey through her social media platforms and website linked below. Resources: Veeshoney Website Veeshoney Instagram Veeshoney Facebook info@veeshoney.com Veeshoney linktree Lionsmane Ashwagandha Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Mason: (00:01) Vee, welcome to Australia and to the podcast. Vanessa: (00:04) Thank you. I wish I was actually physically in Australia, but this will do for now. Mason: (00:09) Yeah, you're feeling that you've been watching ... living vicariously through us, living in the- Vanessa: (00:14) Yeah. FOMO and Instagram, just watching all my Aussie friends move back home, and it just looks fabulous beach life, the food. I don't know. It feels nice. Mason: (00:24) You don't get arrested for going surfing. Vanessa: (00:27) That's nice. Mason: (00:28) That's nice. It's really nice. Vanessa: (00:31) That's really nice. Mason: (00:34) Verse LA, which is a crazy state. Vanessa: (00:36) Very crazy. Very crazy. Mason: (00:39) Yeah. It's like you guys are ... you're still at the epi-centre, that was always still like a magnet for the melting pot of LA where everything that has ... everything that comes over from any wisdom tradition intersects with the Western world mostly through LA, and it's just weird stew of figuring out how to integrate it without misappropriating and blah, blah, blah, you guys. I mean, it's a fun place to be, and then- Vanessa: (01:08) Oh, totally. But there's a bunch of misappropriation left and right. Everybody thinks that they've discovered the cure, which is usually from some other ancient tradition. Mason: (01:19) I mean, I talk about this a lot, and I know I've talked to you about influences and navigating that world and the pressure to become a mega expert and find the cure. I can only stay in LA for, I don't know, two weeks before I get- Vanessa: (01:38) Spontaneously combust? Mason: (01:40) Yeah. Pretty much. I mean, I get counter-cultured to the wellness saying in which I live in, and I'm like, ah, no, no, I just had this existential crisis. But I mean, how do you navigate all that? I mean, because you're moving and shaking, you seem to be doing it in a really centred way, and I want to talk about how it came about through the Adderall, real ... that's just on a hand on heart, authentic sharing, that's serious shit, getting that out there and helping people go through that. But how do you hold your centre in the Lala wellness waves? Vanessa: (02:15) Well, I feel like I've lost my, my centre actually lately. It's funny with the whole Adderall detox and all of that, I was kind of new to Instagram, and it was just so pure and innocent and exciting. It felt like a fun platform at the time, and I think once my practise kicked up and I became this practitioner, too many people were coming to me as the expert and the voice. I think as a recovering perfectionist, I just became paralysed and focused on my practice rather than like, well, I have to be perfect, I have to be super studied on every single possible thing there is from biohacking to hormones in order to be valid or even say anything on the internet, which is impossible, unless I were just to study all day every day. Yeah. Between that and then all of the political controversies starting with the beginning of COVID, I pretty much distanced myself from social media at the time and stopped engaging in DMs and stopped engaging in all of that, because it was all of this twisted information constantly. Vanessa: (03:33) Still to this day, nobody knows anything. It's crazy. Everybody thinks they know something, and then we find out six months, a year later, that was completely wrong, people are wiping down their groceries, for example, and now they're like, you don't need to wipe down your groceries, things like that. And then there were a lot of political movements last year and a lot of narratives that were circulating around Instagram, and I just decided to distance myself. That felt very grounding for me and more centering, I think I needed to find my centre because I was getting caught up in all of it. But no, I think it's a daily challenge. I do a lot of breath work, I try to have a healthy relationship with the platform, but in my honour, as much as I was, no, because I'm also trying to run my practise and be present with my clients. I think energetically, it takes a lot out of me to be talking and touching people all day long. And then at the end of the day, the last thing I want to do is get on and perform again. Mason: (04:37) That [inaudible 00:04:40]. I mean, I hope everyone's still entertained by me talking about this because I love this subject, and you just nailed a couple of things, which I think is like, this is the kind of information I like having getting out there into the health and wellness scene because it creates a capacity for transitions and awareness, especially when you go through that stage where ... I mean, I was just thinking, I was walking back from our cafe over to the office, and I was thinking about how I'm like, I am a CEO, I've got a four year old kid, I'm newly married, and so really feeling what that archetypically does and navigating that space. And then I expect myself to have an Instagram muscle man body, and my mentor is a guy that's like Chico [inaudible 00:05:26], so I expect myself to be able to do different wood splits. That's where I'm at. Mason: (05:33) A few years ago, I relate to the fact that I became obsessed with knowing everything that possibly was. And no matter what someone asked me, I could be an expert on that subject, and also burnt out and had to object from that identity. I use comedy, and now I feel like it's a pathology. I think you're transitioning way healthier than I ever did, but I had to extreme comedy to check myself out, and a progressive therapy and meditation and just trying to come back to reality. But it's a hard core. It's a skill that's lacking, and people don't talk about, and they keep on perpetuating that they know what's up. And so, I think it's awesome. I really value you talking about it, because you look at you, you're still doing it well, but you're distancing yourself from that platform or that persona, which I think is rad. Vanessa: (06:30) Yeah. Yeah. My ideal way to go about this platform now would just be fun and share whatever I feel is on my mind, but it's like, I feel this weight. Maybe it's self-imposed, but maybe it's also an energetic things that I'm taking up on, and everybody's trying to one-up each other. Sometimes I'm like ... Mason: (06:56) That's what LA is. And by osmosis, the rest of the wellness scene, it's just [crosstalk 00:07:04]. The whole health ... influencer, I never felt I related to the influencer, but I was an educator, whatever that means, a health educator. The level of competitiveness I felt as well in the early days, but then I started noticing swirling through the scene of everyone trying to one-up knowing new biomarker or some new biological pathway, or going, that's all wrong because I've got the ancient, holistic wisdom and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like going to war. Vanessa: (07:34) It is. It is going to war. That's exactly what it is. I feel like there has been a war that has been waged even more so this past year, and maybe I just woke up to it, but I was like, this isn't sustainable anymore, I got to figure out a new way of doing this. So I'm still trying to navigate that. But yeah, between therapy and breath work and all the things just to keep me sane, I've had my fair share of breakdowns especially this past year. Mason: (08:01) I think you go to war, I can speak for myself. I was going to war when I didn't have a boundary, and why didn't have the ability to go, "Hey, shut up now, because you don't know. Now just shut up." And the same when you get into questions, getting questions about just colon cancer and this and that, I've now learned how to work with practitioners and have appropriate conversations. I had to do that for my whole team as well, it's a very stressful thing to actually be there. And I can imagine- Vanessa: (08:32) Yeah, I can imagine too, but you have a product you're giving out, so people are probably looking to the products, the SuperFeast, is this going to cure my cancer? That's a lot. Mason: (08:43) It is. I mean, back in the day, they would be like, didn't associate me with the product yet. You'd get the people writing the most incredible symptoms and disease states too, just over an Instagram message. I assume, you know what that's like. Vanessa: (08:58) Oh, no, I get those all the time, and I get the cancer messages too, but I just say that I really can't. Actually, I'd be doing a huge disservice to say anything over a DM. Mason: (09:13) Yeah, this world's crazy. I mean, the going to war, I was thinking about, I said it on someone else's podcast yesterday. And I was like, especially when you get to the point when you realise you don't know ... when you're a hobbyist, for me, I feel like I'm a hobbyist in health. And that's an appropriate thing, I'm a hobbyist when it comes to Taoism and TCM. I'm not going to sit here and say I'm an expert. Therefore, you need to be able to take the piss out of yourself, or you need to be able to just be very evident that you are on a little bit of an exploration here, and people need to have the capacity to take you off the pedestal at any point. When you can't do that and you can't take yourself off the pedestal, I mean, you just get defensive and double down. And the latest one is like you know what, and everyone just needs to do what they need to do, and everybody is unique and you just need to eat right for you. It's like, well, that's a crazy bypass, and that's such a bullshit statement. Mason: (10:11) Anyway, I've been going more and more down this rabbit hole, I think that level of education needs to come forth, I'm stoked you're doing it. But let's hear about you. I think I met you just after the Adderall thing exploded. I think the majority of your detox was complete at that point, but you were just right on the upward curve of becoming known for it. Did you have an Instagram around general wellness, and then just start bringing in the Adderall reality? Or did you just launch straight off into Instagram detoxing Adderall? Vanessa: (10:59) No, I have a general wellness Instagram, but it was a very fluffy general wellness Instagram. I was always a little bit, I want to say shy, but that has to do with past high school trauma, putting myself out there. I was always very hesitant, but I dated an Aussie actually, who was always telling me, you need to be put yourself out there more, you need to just keep filming, keep taking photos, keep doing these types of things, because that's what the people want to see and you have a message to give. When I realised that I had a problem with the Adderall, because it had been so many years, and it was never ending and I couldn't even get out of bed without taking the pill- Mason: (11:45) Did that make you, because that would have been going on for a while, were you in denial for ages or did you always know that it was a problem? And then what got you over the line in being able to actually have the strength to do something about it? Vanessa: (11:57) I guess I never necessarily saw it as a problem because it wasn't like I was taking a crazy amount of it, but I would take it every day to function, and I just thought, oh, it's a prescription medication. It almost becomes so second nature that I wouldn't even think about it. It was like brushing my teeth, it was just a part of my life for so long. And I think what happened was it just ... well, I know what happened, was that the more I got into wellness, the more educated I became, the more I would choose expanders around me, who I wanted to be more like, whether it was jus embody more of this flow state or this ability just to be positive and loving and just present in a way that I didn't feel that I was. When I realised that, that's when I thought, wow, I'm taking speed all day, how could that possibly put me in a flow state? Mason: (13:00) I was going to say I didn't actually know what Adderall was when I was first talking to you. And I was like, okay, cool, some crazy American medication. It's speed. Speed for me, it makes me think it'd been made up into a little back shed bikey gang in an old walk that's never been cleaned. Vanessa: (13:21) Totally. Mason: (13:22) [crosstalk 00:13:22] speed with that clinical ... so it is prescribed? Vanessa: (13:26) Yes. And it says amphetamine on it. That's what it is. That's what Adderall is. Some people are like, I need Adderall, doctor, I need Adderall, and I'm like, you don't have an amphetamine deficiency. What is amphetamine doing for your brain? Cognitively, I honestly want to know, what is it boosting in your brain? Do you realise what amphetamine is? When you actually walk through the ingredient that is in this medication, you realise it's not this magical brain boosting drug as I see countless clients come in here, and all of a sudden, they're gaining weight rather than losing weight. They can't focus on anything, they're suffering from chronic fatigue, but they're still popping speed every single day, because it's just amphetamine, it's just like any other drug. You plateau on the drug, and also at a certain point, the drug is going to have a reverse effect because it's going to start to deplete your brain of dopamine. It's going to start to wear down your adrenals, it's going to start to cause a lot of gastroenteritis and upset in your digestion. Just like anything else. Mason: (14:29) Is it prescribed for ADHD or just for not getting out of bed? Vanessa: (14:34) Yeah. ADD, ADHD and sometimes depression. But it's funny, because Adderall can also cause depression. Mason: (14:41) Well, I mean, again, you deplete dopamine when you [crosstalk 00:14:44]. What did you find your first step was? Vanessa: (14:51) I knew that I wasn't going to do it if I just decided to just quit on my own and not tell people. I kept it a secret. I wasn't telling my family that I was still on it, my friends didn't know I was on it. I'd always sneaky, go to my or whatever to go take it constantly throughout the day. It was still just a very secretive thing. I knew that knowing myself, I had to be held accountable. I knew that I had to tell as many people as possible, and I thought, why not tell the 5,000 followers I had at the time that I have a problem and that I'm taking this drug. That was the very, very, very first step. I also knew that I was going to have to set myself up for eating very, very clean. I already knew all about brain fog and the interior nervous system in the gut, and just because of what I did for a living in my education around it, I knew actually what I had to do in order for myself not to feel run down. Vanessa: (15:57) So, I had set myself up for success, I had a bunch of groceries from the farmer's market lined up, I was ready to eat super clean. I had all of my brain boosting alternatives that I wanted to try out, and I also had a [inaudible 00:16:15] chiropractor, so it's a sacral occipital technique, basically just making sure I was structurally aligned, so enough cerebral fluid was slowing to my brain, and then I just went out with it. I told everybody, and I also gave myself a week to just sleep if I needed to take a nap or just do what I felt that that morning was necessary, because it had been 13 years and I didn't have this drug to force me to do all these things. I also knew it was very important that I stop drinking alcohol for a period of time, because I can't tell you if I even knew really what a hangover was, because I would just take Adderall the next day. Vanessa: (16:57) I knew that I had to stop anything that was going to make me want to take the drug, and I started there, and then I just took to Instagram. It wasn't live. It's not like I filmed it and then posted it right away. I posted it, and on day four, is when I started sharing because I was so afraid of what would happen, like are people going to attack me? Am I going to lose all respect? Is this sharing too much personal information? Things like that. I was questioning a lot, ruminating on it a lot. Then I talked to a few people that I respect and that have platforms and they were like, no, I think this is great. Go ahead. Do it, please. And then I did, and then it turned out that the first day, I had 800 DMs of people all saying ... 800, and I only had 5,000 followers at the time, but 800 DMs said that they were on Adderall too, or a drug similar to it. Mason: (17:59) Because I think I ... I mean, I just had to catch myself off on this scene. Did you know that there were a lot of people? Was it just something in America you know like, all right, cool, there's going to be a lot of people in that role, or is it a silent, secret little club that you weren't aware that ... I mean, obviously, you weren't aware that there were that many people, but were you aware that there were heaps of people that would have been dependent like you? Vanessa: (18:26) What I knew was in high school and college, a lot of people had this. I first learned about it from another girl in my high school grade, and there were girls in my high school and in college that were snorting it, and using it as a recreational drug. I knew that much, but I thought, no one that I knew, definitely no one in the health industry took this stuff whatsoever. And little did I know that almost ... I can't even tell you how many health coaches, Pilates instructors, spin instructors, life coaches, all wrote me saying that they were on it as well. Mason: (19:04) Just back to that, I mean, how did you ... because this is why I really like, and I say it, this isn't just a hand on the heart, I'm going to tell you something vulnerable, this is like a fucking drug addiction. I definitely don't judge the fact that there's life coaches and wellness, the thing that I know is everyone's got something that they're not really sharing and the level of anxiety it's going to because you is the level of perfection you're putting forward and then needing to feel like you're hiding something in the background, versus just being like, I got this little area, not on a pedestal, I'm just going to share about these kinds of things, know I've got skeletons and shit going on in the background as well. What did you see? All those people in the wellness industry, for them to come in the background and share with you, did they feel like they were keeping it a secret, or did you burst their bubble and actually let them know, maybe this is something that's not so good to be depending on? I'm curious as to what the theme of of how these people were feeling about that, living with- Vanessa: (20:25) I'd say 95% of people in the industry that wrote to me that they were on it were ashamed of it. Just the same shame that I felt, the same inner knowing that this is not right, this doesn't follow what I preach. I think if you're not really aware, which it's hard because it's a drug that completely takes you out of body, you're not in body. So when you're on the drug, you're not really aware of how it's affecting your life, and it wasn't until I started each day, I would learn something new that it was affecting like, wow, I really was annoying to be around in relationships, or wow, I was really aloof and not really engaging at certain events or parties, or I was very snippy and irritable, things like that. Or I was so self-conscious, I was confidently insecure. So, it gives you this, huh, I'm superwoman, and then you're a shell almost because there's no real foundation of confidence in there, because it makes you overthink and over analyse everything. Vanessa: (21:41) So I think once I also started posting that, people were like, "Oh my God, me too. That exact same thing happened to me." But they were all my own revelations, and I was actually realising as I was coming off of it, all I knew was that at the time ... I've done so much work on myself, but waking up at 30 years old with ... I think it was 30, 31, and I woke up and I was like, my another relationship just ended, my career is whatever, nothing to write home about. I was staying at my mom's, and I'm just like, I don't understand. I've been in therapy, I've done Ayahuasca, I've done all the things, all the healing modalities, everything you can imagine, why hasn't anything changed? And then when I was going to take the drug, that's when I looked at it and I'm like, well, this is the one thing that I haven't changed, that I haven't broken up with. Vanessa: (22:35) And if everything is energy, like in my practise, we believe that everything has a frequency and has an energy, well, if I'm putting this speed frequency in my body, what is that doing? How is that affecting the outcome of my life? How is that affecting my ability to manifest and be present in this world? Mason: (22:59) I mean, I do like social platforms when there's a ... because that's ultimately when you stop seeking, which is what you just said, and I've been such a chronic seeker, and then going like, well, come on, what the hell? I've done several plant medicine [inaudible 00:23:21], blah, blah, blah, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm going to do this, maybe I'm doing this kind of meditation, I'm doing this big yang style of breath that everyone's into, and why isn't anything working. And if you're not just feeling like you have that self agency and that authenticity, there's always something that can be something festering. There often is in people that's on that platform or in the wellness scene, or in the entrepreneurial scene, or in the fitness or whatever it is. I mean, it's such an a non-sexy thing to capture and talk about. I think you're such a good example, you are able to hit it with something relatable and go through the process. Mason: (24:09) And what I feel like you're able to talk about is that skill to get to the point where you go, look, we just got to call a spade, a spade and acknowledge it's that. Despite all your stories, this is the thing that you're going to have to face. And it's probably not about that thing, there's probably a lot of stuff underneath it that you're going to realise that you are subconsciously compensating for, and you're going to have to go through a real long process, and it's going to be shitty, and it's going to be hard, and then it's never ever going to stop because you can't be healed of yourself. I really value it a lot. And then, did you have relapses, or how'd you go? Vanessa: (24:50) Well, I had to get rid of all my supply, so that I wasn't actually tempted. I'm not a fan of people coming to me wanting to detox off Adderall and alike, and still having a prescription in the house. It doesn't work like that. I know this because there have been such desperate times where I've wanted to go back so bad, but it's an addiction. And I explain to people, I use the word detox because it's buzzy and trendy, but it's not, it's a drug withdrawal. And a withdrawal is not linear, it's a roller coaster ride. You could be totally cool for the first three weeks, maybe a month, two months, and then all of a sudden, you feel terrible and you're really craving it again. But that's life, we can't wake up, we're not machines, we don't wake up and we feel amazing and perfect and all the things every single day. So, that's where the inner work comes in, and I've had to struggle with that a lot. Vanessa: (25:45) I used to use it just even to go out and socialise if I was too tired at the end of the day. And learning to live life without this drug, not to say that I still don't have cravings for it, I still have cravings to this day for it. I like uppers, I like caffeine, so I've been trying not to drink caffeine as often. I like that feeling of being awake and excited. It's an initial rush, it doesn't last. And then not only that, with that initial rush, comes a lot of anxiety, a lot of other things that piggyback on it. So, I still have those cravings, but just to recognise them and also to look at well, what have I been doing? Have I been sleeping? Am I doing things that are bringing joy to me? Are there certain things that maybe I can delegate to other people, because this is not my personal strength, things like that. Have I eaten well this week? Am I eating poorly, and perhaps my guts just bogged down? Am I eliminating? Things like that. I just have to check myself every time I start to think I have an Adderall deficiency. Mason: (26:53) Yeah. Do people from Australia write to you? For us, Dexedrine, which you said you have, and Ritalin, you guys have, I mean, there must be others. I know the friends who are like my druggie friends in high school that were also somehow ... in fact, they were failing chemistry in school, but then all of a sudden, became master chemists when they start talking to me about drugs. And so they'd be like, yeah, dextroamphetamine, [inaudible 00:27:26] Ritalin, methylphenidate, they're just racking out all these names. We had a lot of Ritalin in high school going around, but it wasn't that easy to access, and just those kids that would prescribe to, we'd make a bit of cash on the side. But I wonder how easy it is to get access at the moment, I think [inaudible 00:27:46] are a much easier to get access to, and they're the ones I still hear. Mason: (27:52) I think even at one point, there was something similar with legal in New Zealand to get over the shelf, and we'd have things, like we've got the stores called Happy High Hubs, and they ... I'm not saying they had it, but equivalent store would have little things that, but maybe weren't quite as chemical, maybe more plant-based. But I remember friends going over and getting those there, but a lot of friends in the bartending world took Dexis, a light little rush during a shift. I wonder, do many people from Australia write to you, or do you feel like this is something more North America based, that there's an addiction. Vanessa: (28:29) They do, but not the number of North Americans. I have a fair amount of Australian followers, but I don't see them writing as much, or they'll write me saying that their friend or their family member, so who knows if it's actually them or if it is a friend or family member that they're struggling with who needs help or that type of thing? Mason: (28:52) Yeah. I think we're way more stubborn about our addictions as well as a nation. I don't know what I'm basing that on, but I think maybe there's just some kind of ... I don't know. I do find that it's amazing. I've watched Americans just a lot of heart on their sleeve. Vanessa: (29:10) Oh, yeah. Mason: (29:11) ... me too, and we're a bit more maybe stubborn and proud, and we'll be like, no, nothing wrong with me. Thank you very much. Vanessa: (29:19) Yeah. I think that there is a little bit more pride in other countries than in America. Everybody here is just now trying to just be all vulnerable and have something in common with another person. And plus medication in the US is just, I think, unparalleled than other countries. Mason: (29:38) Yeah. More normalised for sure. But I mean, just talking about addiction alone, I'm definitely not going to equate getting off other addictions with what you went through, but nonetheless, I think obviously, there's going to be some certain parallels just worth being aware of, maybe not speaking to. But I think awareness around addiction, especially when you're in a place where you consider yourself someone who's really healthy, then to acknowledge that perhaps there's something that you're addicted to that either needs just managing and probably managing for a long time, if not the rest of your life, or you're going to have to cut yourself off, which is way more appropriate with something like an amphetamine. The process now, I'm just going to highlight that, even for my own relating too, because I got my little things that I really need to manage. When I get tired and stressed, I'll go back to them, and I'll just get really upset at myself at times and blah, blah, blah. Mason: (30:40) When it came to addiction and getting off, how did you consciously manage the ... supporting your brain, your nervous system. You talked about the Chiro that you were going to, I think that's really great advice to everyone coming off any type of addiction, could really ensure that they've got their body and skeletal structure in the right place. The dopamine, supporting that neurotransmitter. Would you mind jumping into how you say, whether you can talk clinically of what general things that you use to support? And by all means, if it's all personalised, let us know about that as well- Vanessa: (31:16) No. Yeah. To me, first and foremost, being structurally aligned was really important. This was the last pharmaceutical drug I was detoxing off of because I'd been on when I was 20, I think at 21 is when I stopped antidepressants, when I was 25 was when I stopped things Xanax and Ambien. I mean, I was on every drug. [inaudible 00:31:41], uppers, downers, in-betweeners, just medicated to the gills. What I found was that SOT chiropractic saved my life, and it's the sacral occipital technique. So, your sacrum is the base of your spine and your jaw and your [inaudible 00:31:57] are the top of your spine. So if either one's out of alignment, even slightly so, which can even happen during childbirth, because it's a traumatic experience, and I see it a lot with C-sections as well or forceps on the head, things like that. Vanessa: (32:11) This is your entire spine, so it twists on your nervous system, it twists on your digestive system, and then all of a sudden, not enough what we call cerebral spinal fluid is going to the brain. So not all parts of the brain are lighting up. They're not getting enough flow, enough fluid. Because of that, I realised that I actually didn't need anti-depressants and all of that, as long as I was able to stay structurally aligned. Once I started getting adjusted, I started feeling really good, and thus began my journey off of pharmaceuticals. I moved back to LA, and anywhere I lived, I always had an SOT practitioner. I lived in New York for 10 years, I had one there, I lived in Austin, I had to find someone in San Antonio and drive there. And then when I came back to LA, I had my guy who originally took me off of the first drugs, so I just basically was going to him weekly every other week, just to make sure that I was holding my adjustment. Vanessa: (33:07) Then what I would do is I knew that for dopamine, and also as a woman, a lot of us take it to stay in shape and keep our figures small and whatnot. So, I called friends to not meet me at a workout, they had to pick me up to go to the workout, and they agreed to do that, to hold me accountable to start exercising. I knew I had to exercise, and high intensity cardio just to get outside of myself, get that dopamine rushing, so I did that. I made sure that I went to bed no later than 10:30, and that I slept at least eight or nine hours. If I slept less than that, it was a disaster. I started with that as well. And then as far as things that I did for my brain, so anxiety, anxiety is one thing that you can actually experience coming off of Adderall as well, just because your brain still needs a minute to build the dopamine and reconnect those neurotransmitters that have been basically relying on this amphetamine drug. Vanessa: (34:11) What I did was I took this thing called Min-Chex, it's by a company, Standard Process, but essentially, it's just a lot of beef liver, and I find that that helps really calm anxiety in the brain, man, or woman. I started taking that and it helps tremendously with any anxious feelings that I was having. I started taking a lot of Lion's Mane Rhodiola as well, which was helpful. I was messing around with mucuna, mucuna, how do you say it? Mason: (34:42) [inaudible 00:34:42] Vanessa: (34:42) Mucuna, I was playing around with Mucuna. And then when I met you at Mind, Body, Brain Festival or conference, you gave me the neural nectar. You gave me the neural nectar, which is actually better, and to this day, better than any other nootropic, mushroom concoction. By far to this day, is the best thing. It has helped me so much, and I thank you for that. [crosstalk 00:35:10]. Yeah. No, it's better than anything else that I played around with. I had some bad reactions to a few products that I tried. I took things like pantothenic acid for my adrenals, and was just doing things to support the different parts of my body that I knew were being taken down by this drug, probiotics, things like that. I had a whole lineup, but really, it was Lion's Mane, Rhodiola, beef liver, vitamin D, Mucuna, cordyceps is really helpful for getting energy as well. Mason: (35:50) Yeah, that's great. You're highlighting a really good way to relate to the tonic herbs as well, the cordyceps and the Rhodiola and Mucuna. Vanessa: (36:00) Oh, ashwagandha was another one that I used a lot. What I learned about ashwagandha, because at first, when I was playing around with that, oh, this is for nighttime, but no, you can take it in the morning and you actually have a great focus, but not an anxious focus. It's a nice, smooth focus. Mason: (36:20) It's a really weird herb. It's an absolute powerful to yang tonic, but it's a nervine at the same time. It's like, what? I can't take it at night. I can take it at night, but I don't know, it almost makes me, I don't know, too groggy, and whereas I take it in the morning, I need to get up and go, but generally, my mind is just too crazy, and my nervous system's too crazy. That's why I can take those relaxing herbs in the morning as long as I combine it with something that brings a little bit of yang energy. So, I'm with you on that one, a lot of ashwagandha in the morning. Vanessa: (36:56) And Bacopa? I played around with Bacopa. That was fun. That did really well for me as well. Mason: (37:02) That's [inaudible 00:37:02] brain thing. You're just like in that convalescence stage, in the healing stage and the rebuilding. Clinically, that's when tonic herbs stop you from getting sick in the rebuild. That's the two sides of that story. I mean, it makes sense that they would be so effective in there. And the exercise, forcing yourself to go and do exercise, I think it's like ... that's what I need as well. Vanessa: (37:30) Basically, I had an exercise babysitter. I mean, I had to, because I thought I was convinced that I could not exercise, go to the gym, go to workout class without Adderall. There's just no way. That's what I used to get up and go, how am I going to get up and go then? I realised that I actually didn't need it. It actually is much easier for me cardiovascularly to get through the class because your heart's not beating faster than it should at the moment. Mason: (38:01) Yeah. The belief that you couldn't go and do exercise without Adderall. How did you feel? Would you have that feeling of like, it'd just be lethargy, and that I'm literally not going to have the energy to get through this? And would you be doing the making excuses? Like I seriously don't think it's healthy for me to be doing this today, as you got picked up by your babysitter and going there? Was it that extreme? That's what I think- Vanessa: (38:25) No, not at all. Because I find that that's a story, and I tell this to my clients too, it's a story, because I would sit there and go like, actually, am I really that tired? I'm not. At first, you are because you have the hangover effect of the Adderall. As soon as the Adderall starts to really start to leave your system, I'd say within a few days, that next day hangover ... because no matter who's out there listening to this, taking one of these drugs, you wake up the next day, and the reason why you crave it is because you have a hangover effect from the day before, and you need caffeine, you need something. So, I was replacing it with the bulletproof coffee recipe for caffeine, and sometimes just some [inaudible 00:39:07] tea. But without that hangover effect, I would sit there and go like, am I actually tired, or is this just a story I'm telling myself that it's impossible to move my body? Vanessa: (39:19) What I found is that the stories that we tell ourselves are so profound that they actually dictate what physically happens in our bodies. If we're sitting there, and every single day, if you were to wake up and go, I'm going to get cancer, I'm going to get cancer, I'm going to get cancer, and you're so convinced of it every single day, most likely you will develop cancer, because you're telling yourself that that's what's going to happen. And so, when I told myself, I got this euphoric feeling all of a sudden, like wow, how powerful am I that I can do this without this? Which is most people don't have a problem doing it without the drug. But at first, it was just very exciting. It was very exciting, it was all very new, and I felt like I was a newborn learning things again, but also feeling things for the first time that I hadn't felt in a long time. Mason: (40:14) I mean, that immediately brings up the ... if you say in comparison land, other people can do this every day without this thing, if you stay in that comparison, that's obviously going to be a stunting effect, I think that's [crosstalk 00:40:27] reminder. I'm curious, so you went into a convalescent stage into a healing stage, you're moving off by being addicted into a healing and to getting control of the addiction. How did you gauge when it was time to take the bubble wrap off yourself, take the padding, like you no longer in necessarily a healing, was it easy for you to change relating to this healthy lifestyle that you were like, I'm gone from healing, because I was doing something that was maybe a bit negative, to now I'm just actually just enjoying my own lifestyle? Was there any turbulence in moving from one to the other or was it a natural progression? Vanessa: (41:15) Well, it took me 30 days. I like to enjoy the occasional glass of wine or cocktail every now and then, I like to go out and have fun. I was very scared to do any of those things, I definitely put myself in ... I had kid gloves and put myself in a bubble. I wouldn't eat past a certain hour. It was hard for me to go out to eat. I had to be in control of all of my meals, just so that I wouldn't get some drowsy hangover effect from something. So, it took me about, I want to say 23 days, was the time when I went out to a restaurant opening, I remember with a couple of guy friends of mine, and I had a couple of tequilas. I went into it just knowing that life's going to happen, and I want to be able to live my life, and if I feel tired the next day, this is why. I just had to be very conscious, I had to go into it with intention rather than being reckless. Vanessa: (42:13) And so, I woke up the next day and sure enough, I had the craving because I hadn't had alcohol in a long time and your brain swells, so you're laying there and you're just like, but I just gave myself, I made it so that the next day I had no commitments the next morning, I just allowed myself to be. That was one thing, I started going out to restaurants slowly realising that that wasn't scary either, but I knew that I needed that state of just being cuddled for a little bit before I was able to do these things, because I had to understand all the negative effects that this drug had on me and all of the positive things that were coming of my life from being off the drug, because I also think that it energetically blocks you. So as soon as I was coming off, that all these opportunities are coming towards me, people were coming towards me, I just felt very magnetic. Mason: (43:08) I mean, I reckon that's cool. I think as you know, you see a lot of people, whether it's coming off substances or coming off a Western diet for ... you find veganism, you find keto, you find CrossFit, you find soul cycle, whatever it is, and you find something, or just a healing lifestyle that's really coddled, and you associate that with the healing. And as you alluded to, sometimes there's a fear for going outside of it because you're like, oh my God, this is wonderful. I mean, that's a very quick process that you went through, but it sounds like you did it well. I like those principles of being realistic and going in with intention and being really smart about it to step away because I mean, as you've seen a lot of people, then get addicted and too scared to step outside the modality- Vanessa: (43:58) Yeah, you cause addict for sure. I think it's a fear mentality, but I also know that fear really also holds us back. So fear would keep me in the mindset of wanting to take Adderall. It's the fear that I really had to work on, the fear around being out of control, but we are not. None of us are completely in control. If we've learned anything this last year is that we are not in control. There are many things that are outside of our control. And so, I just needed to realise that not to be afraid of that loss of control of every single thing being perfect in order for me to be able to function. That's not sustainable, that's not reality. I had to be able to work with the world and be able to dispel that fear so that it's not holding me back from whatever it is. Mason: (44:58) Well, I know a diet was a huge part for you, and you have a large focus, from what I can see, from when I've been following along in your adventures on diet. Tell me more about how you navigate that space, some of the principles that have worked for you, have, have you find a lot of your principles are just rock solid and you have your standards, do you find some of them are temporary? Have some of them become malleable? I'm curious to hear where you're at with diet because I do appreciate the level of sharing that you go to around your diet. I skirt around the conversation myself. Vanessa: (45:42) Well, I've learned a lot. I know what works for my body, and I've seen what works for a lot of people that have any addiction to Adderall or they're having depression or anxiety or some sort of cognitive function issue or adrenal depletion. But I myself learned that it's okay to change your mind. I used to be hardcore, intermittent fasting, I think I intermittent fast every single day for almost two years, and completely lost my period, and no longer was able to build muscle tones. I tanked my testosterone which was pulling from my adrenals. I didn't even have fatigue. I was just puffy and no period, and it was bizarre. I learned that intermittent fasting is not the set structure for everybody, and that's the only way to live. But that's what I used to do, I used to wake up with that bulletproof coffee with the D and the NCT and the whole night, and just live on that until lunch. Vanessa: (46:44) But my diet now, which pretty much has been the same since I got off, but for the most part, I'd say I was really strict for a long time, which was, I wouldn't touch a grain, so rice, quinoa, gluten, wheat, whatever it is, no grains whatsoever. And then, I would eat low brassica vegetables. I don't eat kale, broccoli and Brussels sprouts for the most part, so I would eat a lot of arugula and butter lettuce for my actual salads. I would eat things like, I don't know, asparagus, zucchini, certain things like that. Not a lot of cabbage, cauliflower and broccoli, Brussels sprouts, kale, definitely no kale. The reason being is that I also had, have, had, who knows, my blood tests says that it's not there anymore, but TCOs, which gave me Hashimoto's. Vanessa: (47:40) When I was doing my research around Hashimoto's I realised how crazy kale was on the thyroid. So I just stopped eating it and I started feeling better, but it also affected my energy. I was feeling better and I was also less bloated and gassy. I'd eat one of those vegetables and I could fly myself to New York on the amount of gas that I would produce. [crosstalk 00:48:02]. I realised that's just not for me. That's what I really do. Basically, I like to eat as if I were stuck on a farm or in the wild and all I could do would be hunt, gather, fish, grow, pick, that type of thing. If I could do one of those things, then I could eat it. So I wouldn't snack a lot, not a lot of packaged foods, things like that, just things I grow up from the ground. If I want to starch, then it's potato, sweet potato, but for me, I tend to eat those things at night because they spike my insulin, and I usually get tired or they're just too weighty. Vanessa: (48:42) If I have them for lunch, I usually have a really bad crash afterwards. So, I'll eat those things at night, sometimes I try to eat them cold because they're more starch resistant. But other than that, I think before this podcast where you said, you I met a new boy, and that also changed the way I ate a little bit. I realised in my relationship with him is that he eats everything. He's like a dude, not into health and wellness. I mean, he'll listen to me go off at because [inaudible 00:49:15] when I see him eating certain things that make my skin growl, but other than that, he has really healed me when it comes to freedom around food. He comes from a Persian culture and they have this amazing rice dish called tahdig, and it's basically fried rice at the bottom, so fried and crispy, this crispy flat layer. It's so tasty and good. Vanessa: (49:42) What I've realised is with him, and through our culinary experiences and just, I don't know, I don't know if it's the feeling of being in a relationship where I feel safe and held and loved or what it was, but my rigidity around my diet, wasn't like, I can't eat that. All of a sudden, he's having some French fries, I'll have some of his French fries, and I would never have touched a French fry before. Like as if my body is going to explode if I touch that one French fry. Mason: (50:16) Yeah. It's like when you've been full Catholicized, and you think if you step outside the discipline of religion that you're going to go to hell, and it's this [crosstalk 00:50:29] experience, and you eat the chip, and you're like, hang on a second. Vanessa: (50:33) I'm still here, whoa. It was pretty eye opening. But yes, if I were to eat like that all the time, would I feel energetic and functional everyday? No, but am I able to have more freedom around food? 100%. Do I eat clean when I'm in the office? There's just no point in me having some cheap, fun, luxurious meal for lunch while I'm working, it's a waste. I usually just, Monday through Friday, I try to eat super clean, which is usually when I'm at the office, arugula butter lettuce with some maybe salmon and sardines or chicken or some grass fed beef or something that with olive oil and sea salt. My lunch is pretty boring during the week, but that also enables me to go out on the weekend and have fun and let loose a little bit because I am super clean for the most part. Mason: (51:28) I think that's awesome. I didn't realise you were at that point as well. Not that I think that's better or worse to be there, but I think that's another thing that needs ... there's some sophistication and nuance and maturity when educating people around health, because quite often, people will go ... what you've just shared, I think is really beautiful going like, there's some culinary engagement and there's something extra been layered on top of these principles you have around health, whereas so often, it's seen as a failure, you're not living up to the standards that you set. And so, even though people might easily move in that direction, it's like, okay, well, I gave it my best shot to be really perfect, and I just failed a little bit in that, whereas it's just, you're just opening up and you're blossoming a little bit, you're bringing in more colour and tone to the way that you eat, and if you're malleable in your principles, stick strong with your convictions, but allow them to be malleable and alter and change, you can really create a beautiful culture around food, having those experiences. Mason: (52:42) I'm the same. I went out purposely and ate the things I swore to myself I would never eat again. Vanessa: (52:50) I love that. Mason: (52:51) ... and just horrified of my indictment sometimes. Vanessa: (52:56) What I remember is when we got back from the conference too, we went to dinner, it was so refreshing that you ordered a glass of wine. I'm like, oh great, I can order a glass of wine because a lot of people in the wellness industry will be so ... they're not in AA by any means, but they're just so, they poo on this, that and the other, and it just becomes very judgy, and how relaxed you were having a meal was refreshing to me, because when you are around people in this industry, sometimes it becomes so intense. Mason: (53:32) Yeah. I definitely noticed myself sticking out a little bit at that second ... I don't know, Yeah. I think that was especially after the first one. And then that second one, I think I ended up having a dad's gone wild night. One of the [inaudible 00:53:53]. I think it was me and Dr. Dan, the gut MD, and my mate, Chris from Grizzly Bear. I was like, thank God for ... I really didn't give a shit about holding that identity the second time round, especially. And I was like, I'm not playing the game, I'm not playing the wellness game. And so, I've definitely felt the eyes watching and the little bit of that bit of judgement that comes about. I think fair enough that some people's path of wanting to create a glass house culture around their wellness principles, but I mean, there's so much lacking. I feel like that's the worst thing about LA, is you can insulate yourself within that health food store, and keto, intermittent fasting, I've nailed it, and you slowly change as the trends change. Mason: (54:59) But you can convince yourself that, because there's restaurants that cater to your dietary ideology as well, so easy to never ever step out. And that's when you start getting ... basically you start getting ... I considered myself having that to an extent, not comparing myself to other extreme eating disorders, but it becomes an eating disorder. Vanessa: (55:25) Yeah. Orthorexia is a real thing. It becomes where they won't go out to restaurants, like, what oil is this cooked in? You get so obsessed with just eating healthy and everything super clean that it really affects your everyday life. Mason: (55:43) Yeah. It's so healthy to challenge that. Even if you challenge it and go cool, I loved opening up, and I don't really ... I've definitely done things I'm like, I don't need to go back there, but at least I'm not opposed, I'm not detested by it. No need to be an opposition, and just almost [inaudible 00:56:05], it was releasing my judgement of the way other people live and eat, get over my superiority complex, those kinds of things. Vanessa: (56:15) Yeah. That was a road for me too. It's hard. And then it's hard because then I'll tell people now, and then taking them off Adderall and stuff, I'll be very strict with them, but that's because they're looking for a result and an outcome, and they're in the kid gloves stage. So I always try to tell people, this isn't forever, but this is for now. We got to be pretty strict. Because then that way, they can also see when they do have those moments, if they don't feel well, then they can at least, okay, well, I had a bit of fun and I was enjoying myself and okay, my guts a little sticky right now, so my brain's a little sticky, that type of thing, but I need them to be able to really see that and feel that. Mason: (56:53) That's the awesome thing about LA, is that it's easy to be in that healing convalescent stage and you feel safe and you feel understood. And there's a real beauty there, if it doesn't tip over and become extremist, which for majority of people, I don't think it does. It's just there's a click of it there and there's almost then get competitive of how obsessed can I get in my eating disorder. And some people, that's their path from there and they really enjoy that. I'm not putting that on everyone who goes down that route, but there's something really magical about LA in that as well. It's why I do like going there. I find that really inspiring. Before we jump off, tell me about your clinic. I just want to know how it's going, first of all, and then give me an insight into what you're working with, what kind of people you're working with, and whether you've got any space, because I know you're popular. Is it only in person or do you do it over video? Vanessa: (57:54) Yeah. It's funny, we've been open for a little over, I want to say three years now, and last year, was our biggest year yet. I think perhaps it's just because people realise how important health is, and they just all really wanted to get healthy, so people really started investing in their health I've found. This year we became a homoeopathic pharmacy, so we carry a number of different lines that are only carried by practitioners, anywhere from homeopathics to whole food supplement, to adaptogens, things like that. We're open four days a week, we see about 65 people a week, and we do both FaceTime and in-person, and we do something called nutrition response testing. Nutrition response testing is a form of applied kinesiology or essentially muscle testing, but what separates us from muscle testing is that we're really focused on the system on the autonomic nervous system, so we do certain checks on the nervous system first in order to align it in order to get the most accurate read possible. Vanessa: (59:01) Once we've run all the testing on the nervous system, we've done some heart rate variability testing, then we move on to the different organs. And just as acupuncture runs on radian points, all we're doing is running on organ points and using frequency vials to figure out what's irritating the body. We're only word of mouth, and some people come to us from Instagram, but we don't market ourselves, so we really just want people to have results. We're very result driven, and then therefore, they can tell their friends or family to come in. We use whole food supplements and homoeopathic remedies to help the body come back into balance, rather than pharmaceuticals and other things that can cause more side effects. We're just focused on that right now. Mason: (59:46) How long are you generally working with clients? Vanessa: (59:50) The initial session's about 45 minutes, and that's when we go through the health history and everything and then run our initial testing, and then the follow-ups are only 20 minutes. Mason: (59:58) And are you going anywhere, are people just coming to you for maintenance and long-term clients, as well as people just going through acute issues, and what kind of issues do you notice people coming to you with? Vanessa: (01:00:09) No one comes to me in the beginning, unless they're coming to me for something chronic. So yeah, I've got clients that have been with me for years, but maybe they'll come in for a monthly checkup or every two months, or all the female client who might have a bladder infection and then she'll have to come in, she doesn't want to take medication, so we'll help her with her bladder infection or yeast infection, things like that, or they'll get the flu, and they'll come in. But what we do is people come to us for chronic issues. So, it's usually they have a thyroid problem or PCOS or a hormonal problem that has yet to be diagnosed, they're missing a period, that's for the women. Men will come to me for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, problems with libido, wanting to get off Adderall, cognitive function issues. We have a lot of IBS and gastro problems anything, having to do with the gut, colitis, Crohn's, you name it. Vanessa: (01:01:06) We also have quite a lot of heartburn, acid reflux, chronic people, lot of eczema, acne and depression, anxiety, as well, what we consider a chronic issue. So, we'll help people with anxiety and depression as well. Mason: (01:01:22) Oh, shebang, and must keep you busy. Vanessa: (01:01:25) Yes. It keeps us very busy. I love what I do. It's great, it's been really effective, and the only reason why I am so passionate about what I do and stand behind what I do is because I was a patient of it myself for six years. So, I was actually in different corporate jobs in New York, and this just continued to keep changing my life. I believe in many modalities, and I think different modalities speak to different people, and you actually have to be energetically aligned and really believe in your practitioner and what you're getting yourself into in order for you to have a true healing experience, because we're just guides. We're not actually healing you, you're healing yourself, but we're guiding you there. And so, I myself, when I found this, I was like, wow, I've never felt this great in my life, and all my auto-immune issues are starting to reverse, and everything is just feeling better that I became obsessed with learning this technique. Vanessa: (01:02:23) At the time, I really had to fight to go into school because you had to be a licenced doctor. And so, I was working for this woman in Queens, in New York, and she got me into the school and then I apprenticed for her while I was going to school. So, it's just something that I'm really passionate about, and I don't believe anybody should go into, I think, any healing modality unless it's really done wonders for yourself, because in order to really stand firm in that ... because you have clients that come in one week or another, and they really don't feel well, but they're on your protocol. And unless you confidently stand behind what you do and you've had that experience of maybe some Herxheimer reaction or you've backed slide a little bit, unless you can stand with them and empathise with them, it's very hard to get around that blockage. Mason: (01:03:16) Yeah. And that's what you see in most healing modalities or medicine is a lack of empathy. Vanessa: (01:03:23) Yeah. Mason: (01:03:24) Awesome. I'm really interested to hear more about this. I know you've probably had a full day. What day is it here? I'm doing the math, Tuesday? Yeah, it's Tuesday here. Vanessa: (01:03:34) It's Monday. Yeah, we pick up again in about a half hour, and then we'll go till 6:30 PM tonight. 10 minutes. Mason: (01:03:43) Okay. All right. I'll definitely let you go. Thank you for lending me, V. Thanks, V. The best way for people to get in touch with you, is that through veeshoney on Instagram? Vanessa: (01:03:56) Yeah, veeshoney on Instagram, and then email is info@veeshoney.com if people want an appointment. If you're looking for employment, definitely don't DM, email. Mason: (01:04:10) Good call. Beautiful. Good to see your face, thanks so much for that. Vanessa: (01:04:11) You too. I hope to see you in person at some point. I'm dying to come to Australia and be one of those tourists in Byron Bay, bother in Byron Bay. Mason: (01:04:23) No worry. We're going to take you outside of Byron Bay, and you won't be a bother. We've got the hook- Vanessa: (01:04:25) I would love that. Mason: (01:04:26) [crosstalk 01:04:26] with the insiders. Vanessa: (01:04:29) I love that. Mason: (01:04:30) All right. Beautiful. I'll see you soon then. Vanessa: (01:04:33) Yes.
We're talking medical cannabis in Australia with a few psychedelic stories for good measure on the SuperFeast podcast today. Mason sat down with Nicholas Morley from Greenlight Health for an uncensored conversation around this highly politicised powerful plant. Woven into ancient texts and stories, from early Chinese emperors to the Assyrians, Greeks, and Romans, Cannabis has a long-standing relationship with humans utilising its healing properties. Sitting in a somewhat grey area, medical cannabis in Australia is technically legal but still massively restricted for use (in many ways). Despite all hindrances and risking their livelihoods the whole journey, Nicholas Morley and his business partner at Greenlight have taken on the good fight to advocate for the use of medical cannabis in Australia, helping so many people suffering along the way. Mason and Morley get into the health benefits of full-spectrum CBD oil, specific applications for healing, brain/mental health, plant medicine, micro-dosing psychedelics, and why giving up the fight for the right to legally use this plant to heal people is not an option. Tune in for epic conversation. Mason and Nicholas discuss: Healing benefits of Mucuna; a great mood and brain regulator. Microdosing psilocybin. The increase in people on anti-depressants. Depression, anxiety, and plant medicines. Ayahuasca medicine ceremonies. The stigma surrounding the highly politicised cannabis plant. Alleviating stress through herbs. The endocannabinoid system. Medical Cannabis for sleep. Psychedelics. The vape delivery method. CBD Topicals. CBD Lubrication. Why topical application is just as effective and ingesting. Who Is Nicholas Morley? After 30 years of international experience in the fashion and beauty industry, Nicholas Morley used his extensive experience with people to develop a great passion for cannabis medicine and wellness. Part of this shift saw Morley become one of Australia’s most well-known and active advocates for medicinal cannabis. Through his dedicated spirit, Morley pioneered the modern ‘green market’ cannabis consultation scene. He is featured on the Stan documentary, ‘Green Light,’ as well as other noteworthy documentaries including ‘High as Mike.’ In addition to these, Nick has featured on numerous podcasts. Today he is the owner of Greenlight Health, a cannabis consultancy that helps educate people about natural alternative therapies and provides advice/insight into what may best suit each individuals’ needs. Nick is an active member of the cannabis community, always striving to push the industry to new levels, helping as many of those in need as possible along the way. Resources: GREENLIGHT website Greenlight Health Facebook Greenlight Health Instagram Greenlight Movie Mother Flower Medicinals Neural Nectar Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Mason: (00:00) Nick, thanks for coming in, man. Nick Morley: (00:02) Hey, Mason. Nice of you to have me on. Mason: (00:04) Yeah, thank you. Awesome. It's always nice to get a face to face this time, when we've never been so connected but never been so far apart with all this social distancing. Nick Morley: (00:13) All the social distancing. Mason: (00:17) Yeah. I mean, yeah. So thanks for coming to the little herb palace here. Nick Morley: (00:21) No worries. Mason: (00:22) Man, I mean it's been a while coming. I mean we've been chatting for years and years, I mean especially with Greenlight consulting and helping my mum out, get her stuff for years now. Get her on the good stuff. So you want to just, in your words, what are you up to? Nick Morley: (00:42) Yeah, so well obviously we did the documentary with Luke, which was called Green Light, which is now available on Stan, if people want to watch it. Which was a story... A tale about two scoundrels finding themselves and helping people in the same vain. That was an interesting project to work on. When they made Green Light, I was basically working on my own and running this solo clinic. Nick Morley: (01:22) A lot of people over the years have gotten my number from a friend of a friend of a friend. And I was just doing a lot of one-on-one, advising people and helping people to get the right CBD and THC for their conditions. And then after the documentary came out, things got a hell of a lot busier. So I actually ended up bringing on people to help me, and other consultants. And now we've got a clinic which is called Greenlight. It's a medicinal cannabis consultancy that sits in the grey area. Mason: (02:01) Great. I mean you've got a really wonderful reputation around here. Which it's always nice. I've known you for so many years, it's always nice to hear a mate developing a really good reputation. Which I like about Greenlight, because it's one thing to jump on board something. It's another thing to be first of all, back doing it for the love of it before something was trendy, and doing the hard yards of educating. And then the under step is putting genuine care. And so it's been nice to see that all fleshing out. Nick Morley: (02:37) Visa versa, too, you with your tonics and mushrooms as well. There's been a few other flashes in the pan ones appear, but I think you're the original and you've got the best products around too. Mason: (02:48) Yeah. I mean there are some, I call, two minute noodles that just jump in, and- Nick Morley: (02:53) I'm not going to name any names, but I'd love to. Mason: (02:56) I feel like we're kind of lucky. I talk about this quite a bit. I feel like we're quite lucky in Australia. Nick Morley: (03:00) [inaudible 00:03:00]. Mason: (03:01) Yeah. Look, there's some biggies going in, and we talk about it all the time. These people with these big budgets, a lot of the time they come in. They just charge the way, and do all this education for us that we don't have to do. Nick Morley: (03:15) Yeah. Mason: (03:15) And also a lot of the services are a part of the market that just want something quick and easy. But so many people, that's their entry. And then they find their way to SuperFeast, or sometimes they don't of course. But it's nice having lots of people jumping in. It makes you sharpen your sword. Nick Morley: (03:35) Absolutely. I find that too. At the moment it seems like every single week there's another CBD company popping up. And there's a lot of snake oil out there, for sure. Mason: (03:47) For sure. And not the good type, because snake oil's pretty good. Nick Morley: (03:50) Yeah. The ouroboros. Mason: (03:51) Yeah. Nick Morley: (03:51) All this code talk. Mason: (03:59) Yeah. And there is code talk when it comes to this stuff. Some of it is pretty black and white, and some of this is just why you'd be attracted to do this, or use these products in the first place. Like why is there such a hype around them? I think everyone listening understands some basics of just how beneficial this plant is, how generally beneficial cannabis is, could potentially be to the human race, and is provenly beneficial. But where are you at with it? Why do you kick on in such an area that isn't just trading the stock market? Why do you do something like this? Mason: (04:40) STOP CHECK Nick Morley: (04:40) Okay, good question. So we're huge advocates for whole plant, full spectrum medicine. There are whole plant, full spectrum medicines available on the ARTG register, available by prescription. In fact, I think there's about 230 products now available, by prescription, available to the general public. Mason: (05:06) In Australia? Nick Morley: (05:06) In Australia. However, the demand for the product, and the amount of people that are willing, or the amount of doctors that are willing to prescribe them, and the amount of chemists that are open to dispensing them, is nowhere near catching up to the size of the demand. And I suppose I sit in this sort of, or we as a company, sit in a bit of a weird area, because we were probably some of the first people helping people to get CBD in Australia. I've been working with CBD for nearly eight years, and a lot of people hadn't even heard of it three years ago. Nick Morley: (05:51) So yeah, there's definitely ... Where was I? Mason: (05:59) We were just talking like, why are you doing this? Why choose this, rather than something cosy? Nick Morley: (06:05) Well, I sort of did cosy for years. I worked in the fashion industry for 30 years. Not that it was that cosy. But look, I got to the point in my life where I moved up ... I'd been living away in Indonesia, and I'd been working ... I lived in London, New York, Europe, Spain. I sort of lived all over the place, Sydney, Melbourne. But yeah, I was always working in the fashion industry. And when I moved up here, I went through a bit of a life change. And I thought, what am I going to do with myself? I had a pizza restaurant for a minute, and I thought, that's not for me. Mason: (06:41) Which one? Nick Morley: (06:42) It was called [Sant-AY 00:06:44] in Byron Bay. I was one of the partners in there for a minute. But yeah, restaurant's aren't my thing. I love to cook, but I don't really want to own a pizza restaurant. Mason: (06:51) I think a lot of people discover that. They like to cook and host, and then they're like, "Hang on. This doesn't transfer over." I learned that from Kitchen Confidential, I think. Nick Morley: (06:59) Yeah. No, it's not for me. But yeah, look. I met Luke, and I went through a bit of a personal mental health crisis. I was severely depressed, and ended up working with Luke. And Luke got me onto CBD, and also microdosing psilocybin, and plant medicine, ayahuasca, all that sort of stuff. But I went through this sort of rebirth of thinking, wow, this is something that I'd like to get involved with, which was helping people, and helping people to feel better, because it definitely made a huge difference with me. Mason: (07:37) What did you do, specifically? What's Luke's last name? Nick Morley: (07:40) Oh no, we don't mention it. We just call him CBD Luke. Mason: (07:44) CBD Luke. Okay, sweet. Is that from the movie, Luke? Nick Morley: (07:47) Yeah. Mason: (07:47) Yeah, yeah. Cool. That's how we get it. So you got to go to Stan and go to Greenlight, and that's how you get it. And you get the full picture here. Nick Morley: (07:53) Yeah. It's there. Oh look, he got me on all kinds of supplements: mucuna, I think back when it was mucuna. Mason: (08:00) Yeah, mucuna. We've got it. I mean, I haven't got it as an individual herb. We got it in the Neural Nectar, but far out. We talked about that a lot, post-addictions. Nick Morley: (08:09) Amazing. Mason: (08:09) Or post like a lifestyle where it's just been all goal-oriented, and hitting your targets, and then going more, and accumulating more money. It's just like [inaudible 00:08:15]. And you get mucuna in, and all of a sudden you can get some healing going on, on that level. Nick Morley: (08:20) It's such a beautiful-looking vine, too. Mason: (08:22) We've got some growing in our backyard. Nick Morley: (08:24) Be careful. It takes over. Mason: (08:26) Far out. It's a Jack and the Beanstalk vine. Nick Morley: (08:27) Absolutely. With those beautiful purple flowers. Mason: (08:29) Our saltbush, I just have to say that it just smashed our saltbush and just pulled it over. I was like, "NO!" It was incredible. Nick Morley: (08:39) I planted three vines, and I think I got three massive sacks of beans out of three vines. Mason: (08:46) Nice. Nick Morley: (08:47) Yeah. Mason: (08:48) I think it's a leguminous vine, like more of a tropical climate class, just in case you haven't heard that one. Nick Morley: (08:55) Pure happiness on a vine. Mason: (08:57) It is pure happiness. It's such a great mood regulator. And it's a jing herb as well, that's why it's such a good brain regulator. Nick Morley: (09:04) Yeah, and amazing when mixed with low doses of psilocybin. Mason: (09:08) I've always thought about it, because ... I mean, I'll let you go on and talk about that. Because lion's mane gets all the attention, which is ... it kind of should. Nick Morley: (09:17) Yeah. Mason: (09:17) But just one ... to be honest, when it comes to herbs like lion's mane, I like having them alone a lot of the time. But when you start going to another level, you start ... You mentioned it was like stacking. You stack like the psilocybin, and then a lot of people do the niacin. We've heard Paul Stamets talk about doing the lion's mane. But from a herbal, it's better to put these herbs and how they're traditionally used, into a full ... into a formula. And so you start, if you want to get a full picture of all the organs being supported that are then going to promote that kind of mental, brain-based healing, mucuna 100% makes sense. Nick Morley: (09:56) Yeah. Also, and it's just amazing. The amount of people out there that are on antidepressants is terrifying. Mason: (10:04) Were you just depressed? Were you on meds? Nick Morley: (10:06) No. Never took them. But I was depressed. I was probably drinking way too much as well, which Luke also advised me against, because he's not a drinker, at all. Mason: (10:14) It doesn't help. But sometimes it's so much fun. Nick Morley: (10:18) Yeah. Mezcal. Mason: (10:19) Oh yeah. Smoky. Nick Morley: (10:21) Yeah. I'm a big sucker for mezcal. Mason: (10:25) I met Jules. It's hard going to Jules' [crosstalk 00:10:29]. Nick Morley: (10:28) Good old Jules. Mason: (10:29) Yeah. Jules. What's it called again in there? Nick Morley: (10:32) Sunrise [sellers 00:10:33]. Mason: (10:32) Sunrise [crosstalk 00:10:33]. Yeah. Nick Morley: (10:33) Hi Jules. You're a legend. Mason: (10:34) Hi, mate. Nick Morley: (10:35) My liver doesn't like you, but I do. Mason: (10:37) Yeah. Wallet and liver does not like Jules. But everything else loves you. Nick Morley: (10:42) But Luke's ... Back onto Luke. Luke's an absolute ... We call him the Lab Rat. I don't think he'd ever take anything that he hadn't tried on himself. And that's a big deal, because yeah, he's experimented with a lot of things. But he's an incredible guy, and I think quite an icon in this area. You know, there's a lot of people who know him, a lot of people respect him. He's one of the smartest people I know, and he's definitely been a huge driving force in my life, and in my business and what I do. He's a man of absolute integrity. I can't get into too much without incriminating us. But yeah, let's just say there's no one I know in the industry that has integrity like him. And he's pretty quick to pull people up as well. He doesn't suffer fools. Mason: (11:34) Yeah. You got to be sharp. Nick Morley: (11:37) Yeah. Mason: (11:38) You got to be sharp, when you're in this business. Nick Morley: (11:39) You do. Mason: (11:40) So what did you do? How long was it, from you getting depressed to realising you had ... it gets to the point where you're like, "All right, I can curb the drinking." And then what was it? You were doing some medicines, you were doing some journeys. But yet you've fallen here. I'm assuming CBD, THC, or full-spectrum extracts, not just focusing on those two cannabinoids. Is that what got you over the edge, long-term, do you feel? How long was the process? Nick Morley: (12:11) Yeah, I would say it was probably a six-month process. And yeah, it was a combination of the mucuna, microdosing psilocybin, lion's mane, heaps of CBD, lowered down my drinking, and yeah, the odd medicine ceremony with ayahuasca. Which, I find ayahuasca is also an amazing reset. I mean, I haven't had it for quite some time. But I've probably had about 30 ceremonies through my lifetime, and I find that's an incredible reset. As is 5-MeO-DMT. That's also been an amazing one. Nick Morley: (12:53) There needs to be a lot more research now, into studies on depression and anxiety and these plant medicines, because they're far more ... Mason: (13:08) They knock pharmaceuticals absolutely out of the park. Nick Morley: (13:12) Incredible. Mason: (13:13) I think you wrote ... And the research is coming through. Australia's still, the psilocybin theory, there's a few people I just ran into, Dr. Mario in town here, and he's going down ... to Melbourne, probably? Maybe he even said Hobart or Tasi, but I'm pretty sure it was Melbourne. He's going down to do this course, where he's going to start studying how to prescribe psilocybin, and do the facilitation. He said it's not available yet. He's a doctor, so he's going on pure, like really with regulation. But even the fact that that's happening here in Australia and not ... Over in America, they are charging ahead with this research. Which means it's not going to be too long. But the bubble's bursting. Nick Morley: (13:54) Saying that though, when you say it's not going to be too long, it's like, look where they are with medicinal cannabis, and look where we are. Mason: (13:59) That is a long time, actually. It was how many years ago, when every hemp seed still had to say it was for pet use only. That was what I had to do, when I was at the markets. A sticker on all the hemp seed, saying "this is for dogs only". And now, in that, we've got a thing where it's a double-edged sword with our regulatory bodies, where the one benefit, just I tell myself so I'm not completely resentful towards it, is if you look at the FDA and the supplement industry in America, the average of quality is so much lower than Australia it's not funny. You're getting a lot more shit, a lot more fillers and all that kind of stuff. Mason: (14:40) Here in Australia, the entry level is so much higher. Even if you're not with regulatory bodies, there's a general standard in our supplement industry, where people know you gotta keep it high. And so other than that, they keep a really tough kind of racket going, on keeping the medicines- Nick Morley: (15:01) This is the TGA you're talking about. Mason: (15:02) Yeah. That's what I'm thinking about. That's obviously the shit end of the sword, is it's something like hemp seeds. Which, why would hemp seeds ever not be available for human consumption? It was probably only five years ago, that that actually got approved. Nick Morley: (15:17) Yeah, well the cannabis plant's got a pretty ... there's a lot of bad stigma attached to it, you know? Mason: (15:22) Propaganda, you mean. Nick Morley: (15:23) Yeah, absolutely. But on that note, which I think may be something we should talk about quickly, is the fact that TGA, which is the Therapeutical Goods Association, for those out there that don't know, made an announcement a couple of months ago that cannaboid oil, which is CBD, is going to be available over the counter. Which, everyone out there thinks, "Wow, that's amazing news. I can go to the chemist, and I can buy CBD." There's just one problem. There's not one product approved on the ARTG register. There's been no product. So nothing will be sold in chemists, unless it's been passed through with a clinical trial. Nick Morley: (16:04) Now, to get a clinical trial done, and just to do a clinical trial is going to cost millions and millions of dollars, right? Like at least, minimum, $3 million. And the product that they've approved is made from an isolate, because it's got to have zero THC content. Now, anybody that knows anything about medicinal cannabis will tell you, that isolated CBD on its own, without any full spectrum medicine mixed with it, is not effective. So how on earth are any of these companies, that are trying to get these products over the line and available over the counter, going to get any tests approved? Mason: (16:49) Yeah, that's interesting. Nick Morley: (16:51) It's not going to work. Mason: (16:52) I mean, this is kind of an area where I'm not clear on, with TGA stuff. Nick Morley: (16:57) Yeah. So it's CBT with zero THC in it. CBD with zero THC doesn't work, period. It's not good for anything. Mason: (17:07) Why? Nick Morley: (17:08) Because it just doesn't work. The plant doesn't let it work. Mason: (17:13) Because it's an isolation? Nick Morley: (17:13) It's an isolate. Mason: (17:16) So it doesn't ... Will people feel something which probably ... You're saying, if they're doing studies and they're proving there's physiological effects, you're saying to your standards and for true healing, it doesn't work. Nick Morley: (17:30) It doesn't work. Mason: (17:31) Whereas, they might see some markers shift and change. But you don't think, with an isolate, that they're going to change in the direction you want them to and need them to, long-term. Nick Morley: (17:40) Only time will tell. And I know through my own personal experience, we've tried isolates. We've taken them, and the lab rats had them. We'll tell you that they just don't work. Mason: (17:50) When you say, what are you looking for? The effective [inaudible 00:17:53] on disease states, or psychological states? Nick Morley: (17:58) Yeah. All of the above. Mason: (17:59) Yeah. Nick Morley: (17:59) All of the above. But one things for sure we do know, is that full spectrum whole plant medicine does work. The amazing thing about the cannabis plant is, it's not just the CBD in there. CBD's one of 120-something cannabinoids that exist inside the plant. But it's also the terpenes in there, as well. So when you isolate, and take just the CBD out of the plant, you're losing ... What about the rest of the magic? Mason: (18:28) I think everyone is going to be able to jump straight onto the relevance of when we talk about beta-glucans and mushrooms, and the focus on the isolation of the beta-glucans in an extract, that's all well and good. But if you take the percentage of a beta-glucan up above what it's natural ratio is within a wild plant, there is literally not enough room, in that powdered extract, for all the unidentified, like you're saying, energetics and substances, and chemicals, and all the good stuff, that is perhaps regulating those more trendy isolates and compounds. They may be lowering ill effects, increasing certain effects. We don't know what they do. But as you're saying, I think everyone would be like, bang. They'd know straightaway what you're talking about, thinking about why we'd go for like a full-spectrum mushroom extract. Nick Morley: (19:17) Do they use the term "entourage effect" in mushrooms? Mason: (19:20) No, but I know exactly what you mean. You need your Turtle, and your Johnny, your Bravo, and I can't remember the other one. It's been a long time since I've watched Entourage. Nick Morley: (19:33) Now I get it. Mason: (19:36) Now you're with me? E, that was the other one. Yeah. It makes so much sense, and it breeds ... It's like this self-fulfilling prophecy of why people who are dogmatically dedicated to the scientific community don't understand the full force of natural medicine, because the studies that they're looking at are only dealing with isolates. And only if you get very significant effects from an isolate, will they go on and try all these other different types of herbal extractions, cannabis extractions. But they won't let it get past that one stage, because they've chosen a bogey. And the reason they've chosen it, is because they're going to be able to standardise and then patent it, and so on and so forth, and control it. Nick Morley: (20:30) Which is what it's all about. Mason: (20:31) Which is all about ... In Australia, you can wear in a ... When you compare Australia to America in that sense, it feels ... I mean, not to go too extreme, but it's quite Orwellian. That's the feel. It feels like, when it comes to getting access to plants, it's a real conservative, locked-up, no progressive consciousness coming through the regulatory bodies. It's like a parent that's over-coddling a child, and wraps them up, and won't let them get out there and work it on the monkey bars, you know? And so you get all these flabby humans. That's how I kind of see it. Nick Morley: (21:14) So true. Mason: (21:15) Yeah. So I'm with you. Nick Morley: (21:17) Yeah. Yeah. So true. Mason: (21:22) Let's start going into ... I think a lot of people here know about the endocannabinoid system. But maybe, do you want to talk about even beyond that? Just like, because I've talked to you off-mic a little bit before about this companion nature with this plant, with the cannabis plant in humans. Where are you at with it? Where are you at in your relationship with the plant, and just how you see it working with us internally, long-term? Nick Morley: (21:55) Well, I believe that we're still discovering ways that it works with us. But one thing's for sure though, is that we're all born with these receptors. I believe that cannabis has been part of the human ... well, with mammals for a long, long, long time. I think it's going to be interesting watching, because it's only been like a short amount of time since CBD's been available to people. It's going to be interesting to see how that does have an effect on people's long-term health, because I believe that it was a missing link. I think it's one of the reasons why people aren't as healthy as what they should be. Nick Morley: (22:45) But I think one of the reasons why, another reason why people aren't as healthy as what they should be, is because we're just completely contaminated the whole time, whether it's from glyphosate in our food and our food system, to poll Nick Morley: (23:21) ution, to bad water. There's so many other factors. But I definitely believe that humans have a really ... well, mammals in general, because we treat a lot of people with cats and dogs, and horses. I mean, you can give it to so many creatures, and it works on them. Yeah, I believe it is a bit like a bit of a missing link. Nick Morley: (23:23) My personal relationship with it is, I used to be a huge pot smoker. I smoked hashish for years. I've always, like ever since I was 13 or 14, I've been a pot smoker. Only in the last year have I actually given it away. I've sort of stopped consuming it. You know, I had a big appetite for it. I was a three and four chillum a day guy, at one stage. But now, I have one little vape pen. And if I'm having difficulty sort of slowing myself down at the end of the night, I'll have one puff on that. Or I'll wake up in the middle of the night, I can't get back to sleep, I'll have another puff on it. But yeah, other than taking a daily dose of CBD, I'm not really a big cannabis user anymore. Mason: (24:14) Taking a dose of the full spectrum stuff. Nick Morley: (24:16) Absolutely. I'm not going to worry about the isolate powder. Mason: (24:22) Yeah, you've kind of got to say CBD, because that's the branding around it. Nick Morley: (24:25) Yeah. Mason: (24:25) That's what everyone understands it as. Like, okay, I know what you're talking about. You're talking about the full thing. But you have kind of like a tailoring situation. Do you tailor, do you alter, like coming from various strains of cannabis? Or are you just getting a full spectrum extract from different strains, and then going ... you for that issue, you're going to go this strain in a full spectrum? Or yeah, how are you altering it and tailoring it? Nick Morley: (24:55) When we're advising people on products- Mason: (24:56) When you're advising people what to go for. Nick Morley: (24:58) Yeah. When we're advising people on what to go for. Mason: (25:01) Over the counter. Nick Morley: (25:02) Yeah. There is a bunch of different products that are becoming more available now, and we're seeing really good effects with them. They'll be CBN, CBG. Mason: (25:13) So how do you get the CBN cannabinoid full spectrum extract? Is that because someone goes and extracts that from a particular strain of cannabis, and that happens to be- Nick Morley: (25:25) Yeah, that's a question for Luke. You need to get Luke on. Mason: (25:28) Yeah, okay. Nick Morley: (25:30) The Lab Rat can answer that one. Mason: (25:31) Okay. Nick Morley: (25:32) But yeah, and also different strains. And we see different strains working for different things. Also, through our experience, the way that the products have been treated after they've been extracted also changes the way that they relate with the human body. For instance, CBDA versus CBD, THCA versus THC. And there's a lot of studying now going into that, whether being raw products, or decarboxylated products. Mason: (26:08) What's that mean? Nick Morley: (26:09) Raw meaning it's a pure raw extract, and then decarboxylated is when it's been through a heat process. Mason: (26:19) Yeah. It's a good word for "heat process", yeah. Nick Morley: (26:20) Yeah. So decarboxylation changes the way the plant behaves when you take it, or the way it affects you. Mason: (26:27) Makes sense. Nick Morley: (26:30) Yeah, absolutely. Also, another thing that I've found through my experience is that the way that the oils are extracted affects the way they work on you as well. For instance, we prefer using oils that have been CO2 extracted, right? But at the same time, I think what we've found is that when it's extracted by CO2, it affects its terpenes. Mason: (26:59) Affects them in a negative way, or? Nick Morley: (27:02) Well, yeah. I just don't think you get as many. Mason: (27:04) Oh, right. Yeah, yeah. Nick Morley: (27:05) As opposed to taking an oil that's been extracted using butane. Right? Which some say isn't a safe extraction, but I think you can clean up something that's been extracted, using butane. And the taste, and the flavour, and the effect of that CBD is very, very different to anything that's been extracted using CO2. Then you've also got steam distillation. There's many different ways to extract. And it seems like, yeah, the medicines react, or they react differently, to the body. Mason: (27:39) I'm with you that it's a missing piece. We're living such intensely stressful lives. It's the entire reason that SuperFeast exists. Eventually everyone graduates to listening to these podcasts. But even then, people are looking for ways to alleviate stress, to get that little bit healthier so life is really nice and easy, so then you can kind of mushroom at the top of all that work, and then work on yourself, and enjoying ... cultivate a little bit more happiness. But let's be real. We might be doing some serious, on-purpose living, but we're hustling as we're doing. And we need ... That's why the majority of people take these herbs, because they're alleviating stress. Mason: (28:21) When we're talking about that, or ensuring that we can sleep, and just returning to our natural cycles, we're trying to live in this shit-fight society, which is wonderful in its shit-fight-iness. But nonetheless, you need to live appropriately. It's the same with the mushrooms. They're here to help balance out the insanity. And I reckon you're right. The canna extracts, I think every single time I see them being used, people with dogs is a huge one. It's just a missing piece with domesticated animals. But with domesticated humans, or humans walking on the edge of domestication and enjoying it as I am, as we all are ... You know? I don't want to have to be out in the wild. I romanticise about the idea, but I can barely tie my shoe. Nick Morley: (29:15) Yeah. Mason: (29:16) But I'm with you. I think it's so ... You can't say that life isn't going to be better, if there wouldn't, in an ideal world that there isn't this mass subsidisation and openness of the market, and for everyone to get access and find what life ... just compare what life is like when you bring this substance in for short-term, or long-term, and see what happens to your endocannabinoid system, and also subsidise the ... You can test your levels within your body, and monitor certain ... see that function gets better. Sleep gets better, REM is potentially going to get better when you're using this, versus not. Mason: (29:55) I reckon, what then everyone needs to get real about, is that you have to take it into your own hands, and get this into your life. It doesn't need to be a permanent thing, it doesn't need ... or sometimes it does. There's different ways, and different strains, and different extraction processes, and different delivery methods that you're going to be able to work with, to see how do you get this in. Mason: (30:16) I mean, my mum's a huge one. She's ... can't really talk. Severe brain damage. Still there, able to laugh and interact. Atrophied right side of the body. Has trouble sleeping. Just huge. Catheter, all ... Massive. At home, getting cared for at home. Nick Morley: (30:36) Yeah. Steve's a good man. Mason: (30:38) Steve's like the best man. They were engaged, and it's nearly nine years now since. And he's still there, running her whole life in an apartment. Same building. He's got his own apartment still running. The whole carer situation. Nick Morley: (30:51) So good. Mason: (30:51) She's got carers there now, 24 hours. It's unheard of. She's on NDIS, but not ... No one's running it except for him. It's unheard of for someone that disabled to still being in their home. And she's got this epic community. Mason: (31:04) You know, we've had to go through heaps of different renditions of trying this strain, through your consultancy. All right, trying this oil. Okay, cool. And then we finally start honing in on something. And then teaching her how to vape again. Trying that, it was a complete failure, and the vape sat there for like nine months. Then one of her carers is just like, "No, screw this. You are not sleeping. You are taking a toke tonight." Mason: (31:32) And Mum just got wonderfully ... She just went, she finally learnt. Had a bit of a coughing fit, and then found this magical ingredient in her life that really helps her sleep. I'm actually going to get an Oura ring to track all her sleep cycles and REM, and all that kind of stuff, and her deep sleep states, just to measure what happens before and after. Mason: (31:56) But you do have to take it into your own hands at this point. And it feels like, for you, do you see it as being ... I know how I see it, as being like a tonic herb, and it's the one you include in your diet preventatively, kind of permanently? Nick Morley: (32:07) Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting when you're talking about your mum, because your mum is on a product that we call it the Alphabet. It's nicknamed the Alpha Kit. But it's basically ... the alpha pen's, the reason we call it the Alpha is because it's CBD, CBDA, CBG, CBN, THC. There's many letters of the alphabet in there. It's this amazing blend that was concocted by the Lab Rat, which is incredible. And not only is it great for helping people sleep, but it's also a really powerful analgesic. It's also great for depression and anxiety. It's pretty much a one-stop shop. And that product, if that was out there available- Mason: (32:53) Can you imagine? Nick Morley: (32:54) Oh! Mason: (32:55) Well, that's the biggest thing- Nick Morley: (32:56) Such a game changer for everyone. Mason: (32:58) Can you imagine my mum ... can you imagine how strong you need to be, to not completely lose yourself to depression, being in her situation? Nick Morley: (33:10) And she still laughs. Mason: (33:12) She laughs her head off. I just got back, it's her 60th birthday. Actually, we're in the middle of a sale right now, for her 60th birthday. And she had an absolute ball. And it's been tough. But something like that product especially has been such a game changer for her, and her mood regulation. We do focus on sleep, because it's such a problem for her. Nick Morley: (33:34) The CBN was really good too, but then we couldn't get it anymore. Mason: (33:37) Yeah. But the pen ... Ha ha. That was a Freudian slip. The pen, that has been the best advice that we've gotten, to get her on the pen. But then likewise, I think there's still a couple of other little goodies that we try, here and there. But just why not? It's like a tonic herb. You can't go too wrong. Nick Morley: (34:00) No, you can't. And I think when people can get away from the stigma of putting something in your mouth and inhaling, like it's not smoking, it's ingesting a vapour ... the whole vape delivery method is just incredible. It affects you within minutes, whereas opposed to giving your mum oils at night. Sometimes an oil takes an hour or two hours to work. But the vape is just like fast ingestion, fast working, and you see a result straight away. Then you can gauge, well, have I had enough? No, I need a little bit more. Have a little bit more. Yeah. Mason: (34:44) And she has a giggle. Nick Morley: (34:45) Oh, I'm so happy. Yeah. That's great. Mason: (34:46) Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm happy ... it's obviously, there's no stopping it. There's no stopping this plant. Nick Morley: (34:53) No. There's no stopping us, either. Mason: (34:55) No. No stopping you guys either. What other areas? You mentioned these needing to be studied more. When you look out at the problems that people are generally facing, you've mentioned depression and mental health. You kind of mentioned sleep. Nick Morley: (35:11) Yeah. Mason: (35:11) What else are you most excited for cannabis getting out there, and these extracts? What areas of treatment, or even on the other side of treatment, longevity, are you most excited about it getting out there? Nick Morley: (35:25) Okay, so we've been experimenting a lot with topicals, with skin creams. Mainly that drive came from my absolute pure vanity. I'm just obsessed with my skin, and don't want to age, and I've been tinkering away making moisturisers that contain CBD. We've found that they're just amazing. You were meant to laugh there. Mason: (35:50) I mean, to be honest, I'm like going, "Me too. I thought I was the only one." Nick Morley: (35:56) I think your skin looks really good. Mason: (35:58) Oh, man. I'm like really at the point I'm like, there's a few wrinkles and we're ageing gracefully, and I'm blessed with good skin and all that kind of stuff. But I'm also, you know, you know what it's like. You got a young kid. I got a young kid, and I'm running a business. And I'm like, "Man, running a business and having a young family is amazing for your heart, but not for your skin or your ... " You're just like, just watching ... I'm not that young ragamuffin that could run around, and just spend all day naked sunbathing, and just drinking juice and smoothies, and just cultivating jing anymore. I'm using my jing, and so I'm like, I could use a bit of moisturiser and stuff, here or there. Nick Morley: (36:39) Well, we'll have to make a note. I'll have to send some over to you. But yeah, we've actually developed a really, really hydrating moisturiser. Then we've done a day moisturiser. We've developed a lube. Mason: (36:58) Oh yeah. It's hard to get good lube. Nick Morley: (37:01) Yeah. Mason: (37:01) How does it work with rubbers, as well? Nick Morley: (37:04) No good. No. Mason: (37:05) No? Is it coconut? Have you got coconut oil in there? Nick Morley: (37:07) Yeah, it's an MCT-based- Mason: (37:08) MCT-based, yeah, yeah. Nick Morley: (37:10) But we've found that it's incredible for people that lack a bit of stimulation down there, and for girls, especially girls that struggle having orgasms. It can absolutely enhance pleasure, and sensitivity. Yeah, it can help people that don't have ... It also depends on who you're with. But yeah, it can definitely sort of promote orgasms, and- Mason: (37:33) You're saying it can help a bit. It's not the full thing. It's not everything. But- Nick Morley: (37:39) But it is amazing. And I've been giving it out to a bunch of girls, test-driving it. Mason: (37:44) Test-riding it. Nick Morley: (37:45) Test-riding it. And yeah, that's been amazing. That's coming out soon. Yeah, so we're launching a website called Mother Flower Medicinals. Mason: (37:56) This week. Nick Morley: (37:57) Yeah, that's coming out in like, I think, probably a month away, which is where we're going to have our topicals. And they're hemp-based. Mason: (38:07) Yeah, you have hemp-based skincare. Nick Morley: (38:10) Hemp-based skincare. Mason: (38:11) We'll give away a couple of those. We always do giveaways. Nick Morley: (38:17) Yeah, absolutely. Mason: (38:18) We'll do a couple of those on Insta. Nick Morley: (38:19) Yeah, we'd be happy to do that. And also, obviously because we're going to be doing SuperFeast products on there as well. Mason: (38:26) Sweet. Nick Morley: (38:27) Yeah. Which is amazing. Mason: (38:31) Also, do you have that one, like the winter, with the wintergreen and that? Nick Morley: (38:35) Yeah, so it's a pain balm. Mason: (38:36) The pain balm? Nick Morley: (38:37) Yeah. Mason: (38:38) Our neighbours, like in our cul-de-sac, whenever something serious goes on, they all know to come to our house and start. We have to keep that. It's like gold. I thought you weren't making any more. That's why I wasn't using it all the time. That shit works really good. Nick Morley: (38:53) Okay. This is the Mason: (39:03) So in terms of taking down inflammation, easing pain, and that kind of level? Yeah. Nick Morley: (39:07) Yeah, absolutely. If you think about it, right, your skin is your largest organ in your body. When you rub CBD or THC into your skin, it's getting into you. So the first time I developed the pain balm was for a friend of mine that had really chronic arthritis in his hands. And I'm like, you know what? Let's try this. I thought, what's a great transdermal carrier, and an anti-inflammatory? And I thought, emu oil. Mason: (39:36) You're doing emu oil? Nick Morley: (39:37) Yes. Mason: (39:37) Oh, that makes me so happy. Nick Morley: (39:38) That's the base. Not good for the emus, but I'm not a vegan. So all you vegans out there, don't use it. Mason: (39:45) It's an indigenous fat source. I know that this is kind of like a hypocrisy in a way, for me doing Chinese herbs and bringing them into Australia. But I'd argue that we don't have a documented herbal traditional like the Taoists, that can be bridged over to Westerners, for the developed consciousness. That's why I don't do that. But what there is, is an indigenous, for lack of a better word, industry and tradition around a fat source that is completely endemic to this land. And therefore, it is ethically at a perfectly ... It's perfectly, well, it's the ideal fat source that we should be going for, if we're living on this land. Nick Morley: (40:28) Yeah, absolutely. But I think the weird thing is, I think the supply that we get, or the supply we were getting, it was coming from India. Did you know the Indians are actually farming emus? Mason: (40:37) That makes sense. India, when I came back from my last trip back from China, I was with a woman ... It was this woman, she was from Norway, living in Bundaberg, working in the macadamia industry. And she'd just come back from all the top macadamia representatives around the world, got invited to China. And they were like, "We're about to turn Yunnan Province into the macadamia-producing region of the world." Mason: (41:04) And these are the parts where ... I don't go into bat for everything for China, of course. I don't. I just know that I can just appreciate my farmers, and the people that hold the tradition. But that crap ... I mean, India and China are looking for industries that are potentially going to boom. And emu oil being sold over to Asian countries is huge. We don't use it here. Nick Morley: (41:28) No. We don't, and it's really, really expensive. Mason: (41:31) It's expensive. Nick Morley: (41:32) But it works. So going back to it. It's an anti-inflammatory, and it's a great transdermal carrier. So for my friend with his arthritis, I combined CBD, emu oil, beeswax to stiffen it up a bit. And I got an amazing source of beeswax. Then I thought, what's the herb that's the liniment for everyone, that heats up the skin and smells good? That was wintergreen. That's basically what that formula is. So if anyone wants to go out there and make their own pain balm, that's what you need. Or you can just contact me, and I can look after you. Mason: (42:09) Yeah. Good way to do it. Nick Morley: (42:10) Yeah. So that works a treat, and it's great for arthritis, and aches and pains. But then also I found out by putting in full spectrum RSO, really strong TCH oil into the mix as well, is incredible. If you've got a really severe injury, it's amazing. And it really gets in there. In fact, if you put too much on, you can feel it. Mason: (42:38) You can feel it. Nick Morley: (42:39) You start getting a bit of a buzz. Now the other thing, what we've discovered though, is that it's amazing for nerve pain. We get a lot of people reaching out to us that have had shingles, right? I don't know if you know this, but once you've had shingles, a lot of people get this after-effect, which is this incredibly painful nerve damage in their skin, around their neck and the chest line. And it is so painful, that just even a t-shirt touching it, or a shirt touching it, or they can't wear jewellery, because the pain is agonising. We've started making this balm for people with that condition, which doesn't have wintergreen in it. Mason: (43:26) What do you put in? Nick Morley: (43:27) CBD, THC, emu oil, and beeswax. Mason: (43:32) Oh, so you just take the wintergreen out. Yeah. Nick Morley: (43:33) Yeah, take the wintergreen out, and add a bit more THC in there. It works. Mason: (43:38) Nice. Nick Morley: (43:39) It completely gets rid of it. Not completely, but it means that people can function. Mason: (43:44) I'm sure, I talked to you about this. There's varying degrees in which something is effective, based on severity and what people are doing in their lifestyle. But you're saying, it gets to a point where you've done it with that many hundreds or thousands of people you've been working with, on a folk level- Nick Morley: (44:01) Yeah. I know what works and what doesn't work. Mason: (44:07) What works. Yeah, you know what works. I think we're going to get some of that for, just going to add that to the apothecary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to come and buy a bunch. Nick Morley: (44:12) We'll do a trade off. Mason: (44:13) Yeah. We'll definitely do a trade-off. Nick Morley: (44:15) I can't sell it to you, but I know someone that can. Mason: (44:19) Yeah. I know it's a side project that you're involved in. I do know that much. But I mean, the store will be up. I'll just buy it off the store. Does anything else like that come to mind? You're talking about the shingles. And what it is it called? The [zarizoster 00:44:38]? The vari zoster virus, or something to that effect, is the one that sits in the ganglia when you have your shingles, and then it comes out. I can't remember the name of it, but we got a lot of people hitting it with astragalus as well. Nick Morley: (44:50) Yeah. Mason: (44:51) Any other little ... Look, because I don't know whether there's any other little complaints that people have, that you've found? Nick Morley: (44:59) Well, yeah. I haven't actually been on the phones for a couple years. I've stayed away from consulting. In the last month or two, I've actually been back on the phones, and working in the business again. I would say that one of the most common things that comes through, is like massive inflammation of the system. That's like inflammation, inflammation, inflammation. CBD works a treat for that. Mason: (45:31) How do people, when they're talking with you, know they've got chronic inflammation? Nick Morley: (45:35) They've been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. Mason: (45:37) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nick Morley: (45:38) That's mainly what they're calling it. I call it industrial disease. I believe that fibromyalgia is probably caused from exposure to glyphosate. I mean, I don't know, we've never had this conversation. But I firmly believe that glyphosate is basic ... Which is Roundup for those that don't know ... is pretty- Mason: (45:58) And it's been rebranded now to something else even, but- Nick Morley: (46:00) Yeah, it's pretty much in everything you eat. Mason: (46:03) Yeah. Isn't it Bayer? I think Bayer owns it now, right? Yeah. Nick Morley: (46:06) Yeah. They just lost a court case over someone, over a groundskeeper in California that was using the products to spray weeds, and they proved in a court of law that that caused his cancer, and he died. I think the payout was either $44 million, or $444 million to his family. And that's opened a floodgate now, to all these people that are going after Bayer. Yeah. Mason: (46:32) Good riddance. Nick Morley: (46:33) Yeah. Good riddance. But anyway, look, that's one of the chemicals that's used in pretty much all their farming out there. They say that even if you buy organic ... If you've got an organic farm, and that's up the road from a farm where they're using glyphosate, it gets into your food by precipitation in rainfall. It is a water-soluble, toxic chemical. Mason: (46:57) It's like DDT, in that modern [crosstalk 00:47:00]. Nick Morley: (47:00) Same company. Same development. Mason: (47:01) Yeah. Well, it's just the same. They're finding it in like, what? Polar bear ... polar ice caps, all that shit. Nick Morley: (47:06) Everywhere. Mason: (47:07) Everywhere. It's not that funny, but that's why I stopped going into the ... I actively stay away from being a practitioner, and working on specific issues. I work with practitioners and people that have further insight, which meant for me, I got to stop kind of going into theorising around what's at the source of a particular diagnosis, like fibromyalgia and all those kinds of things. And kind of just to hold my ... work with people that are doing so, and having interesting conversations like this, and chat about it. But I get to kind of sit in my prevention bubble in my life, which some would say it's a safe place to sit. But I don't know, I don't hide away from supporting people with lifestyle, when they're going through gnarly things. But I also just- Nick Morley: (48:05) You've got a business to run, too. Mason: (48:09) It's for me. It's how I'm built, more so. I realised it, before I had the business. Before even I had staff, and I had to worry about them, I knew that I was going to go in the direction and hold the torch up there, and then bring in the experts to chat about it. You know? Nick Morley: (48:25) I feel a lot more comfortable working like that, as well. Mason: (48:27) Yeah. It's fun. Nick Morley: (48:29) Yeah. Mason: (48:30) When you started the psilocybin microdosing, what did you attribute the most to that? It's getting a lot of press these days, but when someone's actually had ... when you've developed a real nice connection, and you're so deep into that, you know? Nick Morley: (48:46) Yeah. My experience with it, or the way I would describe it to people if they want to know how it feels, or what it's like, is it's basically like a light being turned on. There's definitely a real fine line between having the right amount, and having too much. I tend to feel the in-between stage between a microdose and a full dose is a bit of an awkward feeling, I think. So I think it's really important that you get your dose right. Nick Morley: (49:19) I find it helps me concentrate. I'm pretty ADHD, and always have been, and I find that microdosing helps me concentrate, definitely. It also helps me with my moods, it helps me balance out my moods. In fact, I think I'm probably a bit happier and a bit funnier when I do it. And I sleep well, at the end of the day. So it's definitely had really amazing benefits for me. Nick Morley: (49:49) I mean, I actually find it really fucking frustrating, when you're on the phone and people have come to you for a consult, and they're like, "What do I need?" And I'm just sitting there going, you need psilocybin. But you can't say that. There's a big difference between giving someone advice on getting CBD, and then saying to them, "Oh, no, you need to" ... I mean, yeah, look. We can. I do advise people to take psilocybin. But recommending CBD to people is one thing. Recommending this, "Oh, you need to go out and get into magic mushrooms," I mean people don't know what psilocybin is. Well, it's what comes from magic mushrooms. Mason: (50:25) Yeah. Well the CBD and THC arena has been around long enough that, even though there is some hardcore regulation going on in the background, even the grassroots movement has self-regulated itself, and set standards. And the level of understanding around how to extract, et cetera, has increased, I find. It's a very self-regulated system at this point, with its own standards. Whereas, the psilocybin, as you said, dosing it out, making sure you've got a lot of mushrooms, and you're averaging out from perhaps even different batches, to ensure that you're not going to have one batch that has a shitload, or the other one that has none of the active constituent ... that you're testing it out, and making sure you're saying exactly, "This batch is going to be a microdose at this dose" ... It's still a bit cowboy, you know? Nick Morley: (51:23) Yeah. I've got a question for you too, then, because I was chatting with a friend of mine who, he's pretty involved in the farming of both medicinal ... He grows both reishi and psilocybin. And his point is that, while farmed, psilocybin is much better for you than getting psilocybin that's been pulled out of a cow paddy, or gold tops that have been pulled out of a cow paddy. The way he explained that to me, and I want to get your thoughts on this, is that mushrooms are bioaccumulators. And most cows are fed hormones and antibiotics, and that would end up in the mushrooms. What do you think? Mason: (52:03) Yeah. Well, I don't know. Most likely that's true, because the mushrooms are ... They're not just the recyclers. They're like the destroyers of toxic compounds in the environment. But not to say ... It depends on what the half-life of the chemicals are that we're talking about. There's some substances that mushrooms will go through, and completely revitalise, and destroy that compound that's got such a short half-life, within like one spawning. Whereas radiation can be taken ... It can still be taken from something having a 100,000 year half life, to 30 years. Or something like that, in that example. I mean, it's true. Mason: (52:54) I think when you start getting into that level of thinking, I would probably agree with you in the fact that you have no idea what's going into those cows. When I start thinking about what's in a modern cow, I already can start freaking out. I gotta watch myself, because if I lose myself into the dimension of travelling through, and tracking how many toxins there are all around me, that sends me flying off into an extremist state of- Nick Morley: (53:31) Yeah. Me too. Mason: (53:33) ... orthorexia, basically, where- Nick Morley: (53:36) I don't even know what it means. [crosstalk 00:53:37]. Mason: (53:37) It's just like, it's kind of like the health scene eating disorder, where you only eat things that are the purest, but they're only the purest and cleanest based on your ideology. You know what I mean? Nick Morley: (53:48) Yeah. Mason: (53:49) And I like- Nick Morley: (53:50) Let me shop at Santos. Mason: (53:51) Exactly. But then you got to like ... Yeah, I want to go in and inspect all those farms. So I don't know. Yeah. I already only kind of do only shop at Santos. I mean, I've had to ease up. It got extreme, and not healthy mentally for me. I'm trying to balance- Nick Morley: (54:10) And financially. Mason: (54:11) Oh yeah, financially. The amount of money I spent scrounging to just get all my latest supplements, and the amount of juices when I had no income that I was somehow able to go and pay about life in Brazil, growing up, back in the day ... I was barely keeping afloat. And it's good. I mean, it's just for me ... A lot of the microphiles, like people who are really into those deep ends of ... I've pulled myself out of the deep end, and being absolutely ensconced in any area of health other than my own, which I'm trying to come to more one of an integrated one. Mason: (54:49) So I don't have that job anymore, because I like talking again to people. I'd like to him about it. But I can't. I can get to that space really quickly. Once I get there, I'm gone. And having a business to run, and having a four-year-old, it's not ... I mean, even mini-Mason ... Does that make sense? Nick Morley: (55:09) Yeah, absolutely. Mason: (55:11) But yeah, I'd agree with him. I'd probably still take one out of a paddy, to be honest. I don't immediately get the creepy-crawlies. But I would agree with him that the wild ... And in terms of wild, is he farming, in terms of him farming them? Nick Morley: (55:26) Yeah. Farming in a controlled environment. Mason: (55:28) Yeah. Nick Morley: (55:29) But I think also what he's managed to do, getting back onto that, is that he's managed to level out the amount of psilocybin that is coming out of these. Mason: (55:37) Sick. I'm a fan of it, to be honest. Despite the fact everyone thinks I'm massively into psilocybin and take it all the time, because I'm the mushroom guy ... Nick Morley: (55:48) Yeah. I actually wouldn't have said that about you. Mason: (55:51) No. I think you can probably see reality versus just perception. But yeah, it's never been my real medicine. Quite a lot of ayahuasca, but it's still been about four years for me. Funny, I was actually just yesterday thinking about how many journeys, and I thought, I was like, it's about 30. Nick Morley: (56:10) Wow. Mason: (56:10) When you said 30, it was like, well- Nick Morley: (56:13) We'll have to go and drink medicine one time, so we'll have to invite you out. Mason: (56:14) One time. One time. I am not there right now, but one time I can feel the call, it will be there again. But yeah, besides a few beautiful journeys, one up in Kakadu, there hasn't been really any ... Mushrooms haven't played a real significant role in my life. I've got my little dose there, that I can have a microdose, every now and then. But I just don't get the call. Mason: (56:42) In that sense, you can see my association with it is going to be, therefore, one that is more comfortable with it being regulated by someone, so I can kind of lose myself to the process, because I'm not all over, dosing it out for myself and testing that for strength, et cetera. Nick Morley: (57:01) I had a really experience ... Sorry, really interesting experience around New Year, actually. Mason: (57:05) Yeah, go for it. Nick Morley: (57:08) Yeah. I was down at a friend's in Bellingen, and we got some ayahuasca which a friend of mine had brewed, and we sat at home and drank that on our own. We had two cups, and yeah, it was good. It was pretty strong. And you know, had a really beautiful night. It was a full moon. It was a good time and a good experience, but not one of those crazy ayahuasca experiences that I've had. Mason: (57:35) You don't want that, when you're on your own. Nick Morley: (57:36) No. And the next day was New Year's Eve. Then we had some friends over that night, and we ended up drinking, making tacos and drinking mezcal. And this girlfriend of mine brought out these [Sugis 00:57:49], these little meanie-mushrooms- Mason: (57:52) Oh yeah, the meanies Nick Morley: (57:53) Yeah, from Victoria. Anyway, so she's capping them up. And look, to be honest with you, I normally have just like one or two, and have a bit of a giggle if I'm drinking ... not having, just as a bit of a fun laugh. I ended up having like six or seven caps of it. And I didn't really realise how much I was actually consuming, until I went to bed. Nick Morley: (58:16) When I went to bed, it was about 2:00 in the morning. You know that sort of stage, where all your trains land at the station at once? Mason: (58:23) Yeah. Nick Morley: (58:24) But I think what they did is they called in the ayahuasca crew from the night before as well. Mason: (58:29) Oh shit. Nick Morley: (58:30) And I had the most insane, psychedelic experience from these mushrooms. It was one of the strongest trips I've ever had in my life, and it went on for about three hours. Mason: (58:42) For you, was it experiential, or was it visual? Nick Morley: (58:45) Oh, it was totally visual. It was crazy. I couldn't really make a whole lot of sense out of it. I think my mind was being challenged constantly. But it was colourful, vivid, and fully psychedelic. Yeah, it was wild. Speaking of, actually I wanted to ask you, have you heard about this other mushroom ... Someone's just given me some, but I haven't tried it yet. Have you heard about Penis Envy? Mason: (59:12) No. Nick Morley: (59:12) You haven't heard about that one? So there's a new ... I don't know if it's new. It's new to me. There's a psilocybin mushroom now that's out there now, and they call it Penis Envy. And it looks like a penis. Apparently, the normal dose, like a hero's dose on gold tops would be, what? Two and a half to three grammes? A hero's dose on Penis Envy would be half a gramme. Mason: (59:39) Oh, yeah. Got to watch out. Nick Morley: (59:40) Yeah, and apparently half a gramme of it is like smoking DMT for two and a half hours. Mason: (59:45) Jesus. I mean, that's quite wonderful, that. I mean, again it's been a long time, but I always had really beautiful experiences smoking DMT. It was all somewhat confronting, and quite high doses as well. For some reason that- Nick Morley: (01:00:05) Terrifies me. Mason: (01:00:06) See for me, drinking ayahuasca again kind of brings out that, you know? It didn't back when I finished. It was in a really great space, and navigating that space. I'm feeling more of that ... I enjoy it. I enjoy the feeling of terror. But I'm like, for me, I didn't know it was not time. Whereas smoking DMT, I kind of feel like, ah yeah, I could skip into that experience. Nick Morley: (01:00:27) Wow. Yeah, I find, I had DMT the first time in my life when I was about 31. I was living in New York City, and I was at a party. We were all sort of drinking. I think there might have been a few other things. Mason: (01:00:42) So okay, disclosure, kiddies. These are all learning beautiful life lessons along the way. Nick Morley: (01:00:48) Definitely. Mason: (01:00:48) Track your doses. Don't be silly. Nick Morley: (01:00:52) But anyway, this friend of mine said to me ... We were at this party, and he said to me, "Do you want to try this new drug?" Mason: (01:00:58) Oh my god, which one. Nick Morley: (01:00:58) And I said, "What is it?" And he said, "Well, it's just kind of like LSD, but it only lasts for 10 minutes." Mason: (01:01:03) Oh, god. [inaudible 01:01:05]? Nick Morley: (01:01:05) No, no, no. It was DMT. Mason: (01:01:05) Oh, that was DMT. Oh, right. Nick Morley: (01:01:08) And I said, "LSD? I've had that. I can handle LSD. 10 minutes? Sure, no problem. Give me a go." So he made a little pipe out of an apple. Mason: (01:01:19) Classic. Yeah. Nick Morley: (01:01:20) Yeah. And he said to me, "Don't walk around on it. Just go into the room. Lie down, and I'll give you the pipe, and then I'll leave you." Well, fuck me. It absolutely terrified me. The first thing that happened right when it came on, was this massive alien face was staring at me, going, "Go back." I got sent home. And I was like, holy shit. I just wanted to scream, "Help! This fucking alien's eating me!" So I actually found it really terrifying, and I didn't have it again for about 10 years later. Mason: (01:01:53) But, I mean, you were having a couple of mescals, you were in a party environment. I was in Lane Cove doing other things, I'm sure. I was in Lane Cove National Park, looking out. Like, I was on a big ... on a rock. Nick Morley: (01:02:08) No one can prepare you for what you see. Mason: (01:02:09) [crosstalk 01:02:09] no one was around. No one can prepare you, but I feel at least you were thrust into kind of the body, and the mind would have been like, "Okay, cool. We're doing all this. All right, what are we doing now? We're doing this? Okay." And it wa
Suzanne Turner – Improving Boardroom Cognition Supercharge your brain to perform at its highest level with peptides, nootropics and much more!! In this episode I have a great discussion with Dr Suzanne Turner and dig into the ways she helps her patients to keep their brains young and optimized no matter what their age so that they can enjoy as good (if not better) function in their later years as they did in their prime. If you’re still in your prime you will get a ton of value from this episode too as many of these are also great strategies to optimizes a young brain. Dr Suzanne Turner is the founder of Vine Medical Associates. She is double Board Certified in Family Medicine and AntiAging and Regenerative Medicine, she treats rare and unusual diseases in patients from around the world. Practicing Functional Medicine, Dr. Turner is an industry expert and speaker on bioidentical hormone therapy, metabolic medicine, neurodegenerative disease, and human performance optimization. She has earned Advanced Certification in Endocrinology and Peptide Therapy and is the leading expert in peptide therapy in the Southeast. Among her many accomplishments, Dr. Turner served as a physician in the U.S. Navy for several years. Prior to her tour of duty, she did an internship in general surgery, then completed her residency at Emory University. Dr. Turner is also an award-winning teacher of medical students and is on the faculty of A4M, IPS, ACAM, and SSRP. 05:44 Why Dr Turner picked Boardroom cognition as a topic to deep dive into: and, what busy moms and boardroom executives have in common 14:25 Sleep a critical piece of the puzzle 19:50 How many hours it actually takes the brain to get into ketosis and why this is so important to cognitive health 22:50 The best time to have a glass of wine to mitigate negative effects 24:53 The cellular impact of alcohol 26:44 Muscle – the currency of aging 27:26 Resistance training as a strategy to decrease the need for insulin in diabetics 28:08 A healthier way to mitigate oxidative stress Ketone Esters instead of antioxidants 29:20 Hydration for cognitive performance 33:47 Hormone Optimization as a strategy to optimise cognitive function 35:23 Optimizing immune function –for brain performance – Thymosin Alpha 1 the first peptide in your stack 37:08 The magic of the 40 Day or 6 week cycle 38:23 DiHexa and how to use it for maximum benefit 43:20 When it makes sense to introduce Selank and Semax 44:11 How GLP1 Agonists fit in to supporting cognitive performance and why nobody talks about them for this purpose 45:10 Cerebrolysin – how and when to use for cognitive support/performance, stacking with DiHexa for the win 51:41 Nootropics that can work and bring added value – the ones to exercise caution with – from Qualia Mind to Mucuna, Phenibute, to L Carnitine 56:00 Modafinil – great for the right person but beware the “Elvis Syndrome” 57:56 Spermidine, how it supports autophagy in the brain and how this too can support optimal function 58:55 Rapamycin to clear senescent cells that could be clogging “pathways” for “cognitive decline” prevention, when to take it for optimal results. Links: Vine Medical: https://vinemedical.com Dr Turner’s Website https://drs.md/ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drsturner/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/DrSCellularMedicine QualiaMind http://bit.ly/QNHNat Promo Code: NN15 for 15% off Primeadine (Spermidine Supplement I recommend) Primeadine.com BIONAT15 for 15% off your purchase Please note that this content is intended for information purposes only and is not intended to substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Peptides are for the most part classified as research chemicals so should not be used on humans. Before changing your diet or using any new supplement make sure to consult with your health care provider. Always seek the advice of your physician or health care provider with any questions or concerns you may have regarding a medical condition before you make any changes.
Tahnee is back on The Women's Series today for a moving conversation with Dr. Oscar Serrallach, author of The Postnatal Depletion Cure, Integrative GP specialising in women's postnatal health, and devoted father, working passionately to bring more focus on mothers postnatal health into the world. His project The Postnatal Depletion Cure has been inspired by witnessing/treating so many women with chronic postnatal depletion and the lack of awareness this dilemma has, both at a societal and medical level. Dr. Oscar believes mothers are the fabric of our society, and through supporting healthy mothers, we create a healthier world for everyone. This heart centred conversation is of relevance to everyone. The time to honour and support all mothers, including the great Mother Earth, is now. "We almost forget as a collective that there is no more important job than making another human being, and there is no more important job than teaching that human being how to love, that's a mother's job. As a father, I can teach my kids around the complexities of love, but the actual fundamentals, that starts in the womb and is learned early on, in that house of love". Tahnee and Dr. Oscar discuss: The often undervalued role of mothers; Mothers are the centre of society, and as a collective, it's everyone's responsibility to make sure they are well supported. Motherhood in the 21st Century, how far have we fallen? Motherhood has shifted from being a role of central importance to a secondary thing that women add to their already busy lives. Displaced badges of honour; the pressure put on mothers to get back to work instead of honouring and supporting the transition of the maiden to mother. Brain changes women experience during a single pregnancy and how these fundamental changes relate to cultural beliefs around holding a mother in the postpartum period. The importance of a postnatal care plan. What Dr. Oscar recommends and why. The idea of the super mum; how this term can be detrimental to the health and well-being of mothers. The essential role of the matriarch and the 'grandmother hypothesis'. Why the menopausal years are about giving back and passing on wisdom. The increase in Postnatal Neuro Inflammatory Disorders (postpartum fatigue, postnatal depression, anxiety, obsessive-compulsive disorder). What are the causes? How can we avoid them? Autoimmune conditions during and post-pregnancy. Harnessing the power of the placenta; how this amazing organ and subsequent pregnancies can provide an opportunity for healing the mother. Nervous system practices to maintain and rebuild a mother's health. Who is Dr. Oscar Serrallach? Dr. Oscar Serrallach graduated with a medical degree (MBChB) from the Auckland School of Medicine, New Zealand in 1996. He received his fellowship of Family Medicine and General Practice in 2008 and is currently completing a Fellowship in Nutritional and Environmental Medicine. He is the owner and principal doctor at the Mullumbimby Integrative Medical Centre based in Northern NSW Australia, which he has been running since 2011. Dr Serrallach is the author of the groundbreaking book for women The Postnatal Depletion Cure, a programme and book for women that bridges that gap in women’s postanal health, and has brought hope and healing to so many women suffering with postnatal depletion. Dr Oscar Serrallach is dedicated to remaining at the cutting edge of wellness healthcare and continues to advance and bring awareness to the field of women's postantal health. Resources: Dr. Oscar Serrallach websiite The Postnatal Depletion Cure Dr. Oscar Serrallach Facebook Dr. Oscar Serrallach Instagram Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher, CastBox, iHeart RADIO:)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Tahnee: (00:01) Hi everybody, and welcome to the SuperFeast Podcast. Today I'm here with Dr. Serrallach and we're going to talk about his book, The Postnatal Depletion Cure and his work with women on going and sort of helping them to restore their vitality after having babies, which is a big and beautiful job. So thank you for joining me today. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (00:22) Thanks Tahnee, and thanks for the invitation. I really admire your work with SuperFeast and your role in mother care as well. As we know, mothers centre everything and, as a society and as communities, we need our mothers to be as well as possible. Tahnee: (00:38) Yeah. I loved that right at the beginning of your book where you say ... I'm going to read it, that the well-being of mothers is the fabric from which the cloth of the future of our society is made. I read that and just thought yes, because it sets the framework for our children, how they live, how they raise their children. It's just a cascade. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (00:58) It's central and it's primary, whereas I think in this 21st century, motherhood has become decentralised and a secondary kind of thing that mothers just add on to their already busy lives. We almost forget as a collective that there is no more important job than making another human being, and there is no more important job teaching that human being how to love. That's a mother's job. As a father, I can teach my kids around the complexities of love, but the actual fundamentals, that starts in the womb and is learned really early on, just that house of love. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:44) I think it's useful to kind of reframe that because a lot of mothers feel like they want to stay home and stay in that role, and they're feeling pulled into all the trappings of the 21st century living and jobs and success. We've got a very academic way of kind of even judging one's success. Tahnee: (02:07) Rationalising. I think a lot of rationalising happens when you become a mother. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (02:12) Well, and externalising, comparing. Tahnee: (02:14) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (02:14) It can be very tough landscape, especially they're not really that aware of the deep transformation that's kind of occurring within not only mother's kind of psyche, but also within her biology in terms of her brain, her nervous system. Such massive changes occur and everyone's going into parenthood with quite an abstract idea of what they're in for. We talked about Pinterest parenting. It's like you ever go, well, I quite like this and we're going to do this. No, we're not going to do dummies or thumb sucking. We kind of have a checklist of these quite important but not that important issues and actual fundamentals of looking after a helpless human being we don't really have much experience in. We think we'll just kind of wing it. Tahnee: (03:17) Well, it's funny because there's that old joke where people say, oh you should get a licence to have a child, and there is sort of this element of, culturally, you used to be raised around small children. I see my child and the other children in the street. They kind of raise each other in a way and they learn to be with a smaller person. I can imagine that that gives them this kind of sense that later on they're going to be a little more adapt at handling children when they have their children. I think we miss so much of that because we have these nuclear families and we've lost large families with lots of siblings. That's not really our norm anymore. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (03:56) Yeah, that's right. In traditional societies, there's not a way you would have reached the possibility of becoming a parent without significant experience in actually looking after young children and slightly older children. Again, the analogy of the licence. You wouldn't have needed a licence because you've already had a lot of experience. The sort of research of American. The average couple researches more time in buying a new vehicle than they do in actually becoming a parent. So there's often a lot of research in the antenatal pregnancy, but the parenting side of things, we don't ... Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (04:33) So when I'm making a joke about winging it, that's what we all do, expecting that somehow we'll know what to do or someone's going to turn up and help us. Tahnee: (04:45) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (04:48) We can really struggle and suffer when a mother hasn't slept for months and, at 3:00 in the morning, she can't settle baby. Then she's trying to work out what's going on. It's a very deep, dark place to try to pull yourself back from, especially when you don't have a cultural context. Tahnee: (05:09) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (05:10) Or even a default place to go, where to get support or ideas, or solutions. As a society, we're very unkind to mothers generally. If there's anything wrong with the baby, who gets blamed? The mom. I think it should almost be the opposite. If there's any issues with the child, it should almost be a collective, ah, the society didn't turn up enough to help that mother for the child. Tahnee: (05:37) Yep. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (05:39) Because I don't meet bad mums. I just meet unsupported mums who have struggled and haven't been supported and were unaware. Most mothers are in it boots and all, so it's not a matter of not trying hard enough. It's just not having the right resources, the right knowledge, the right preparation, or even awareness around the certain times of vulnerability that can occur during motherhood. We almost have the opposite in terms of these badges of honour, the super mum getting back to work as early as possible. Working mums, when they're at work, they're pretending they're not a mother. When they're mothering, they pretend they don't have a job. Tahnee: (06:31) Fragmentation of self. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (06:34) Quite damaging and pretty much impossible because you can't switch off your mother-ness. Tahnee: (06:39) If only. No, you don't want to. I think when you first ... I certainly remember being a couple of weeks in and being like, oh my gosh, who am I now, because I'm not that person who gave birth to this child and I'm not a mother yet because I don't know that role intimately. It was just this funny little liminal space of I didn't really know who I was becoming and I didn't know who I was ... I sort of knew who I was leaving behind, but there's a grieving period, which happened for me in pregnancy and then again postpartum. It's interesting and there aren't a lot of elders now to even take ... Tahnee: (07:22) We had an older friend who doesn't have children, and she's raised or helped raise many nieces and nephews. She showed up and swaddled my daughter and picked her up and walked her around a couple of days after I had her. I just was like, whoa, that's cool. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (07:36) And so necessary as well. Tahnee: (07:38) Yeah, because she was friends and close, she just came in and did it. I thought, wow, there's so few women that I know that could help me like that and that sort of can support. I think that's a big part of it, right? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (07:52) Yeah. What you're describing very beautifully is that transition from maiden to mother. We can talk about that more, but this idea of matrescence, of becoming a mother, is a very profound idea. Many mothers describe this heart ripping experience with those first few days post birth, and that's a real time of vulnerability. One of the most important things that a mother experiences really in that time is safety and that everything is going to be okay, and that her team around her have got this, because she cannot feel the edges anymore and she's getting used to these mother upgrades in terms of nervous system and brain changes and hormones. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (08:43) It can take several years to get used to these upgrades. What I like about that story that you were sort of sharing is that you had someone, who probably wasn't even asked to help, turning up and doing what was necessary. That's real support, but in a trusting environment. When a mother is actually having to ask for support, it's already too late because, if she senses she's struggling, she's been struggling for quite a bit of time before she's raising her hand, or she may not feel justified to raise her hand to ask for help or feel that she's doing a bad job, and that she's a bad mom and she should know better, which is part of a negative feedback that we often get culturally around motherhood that you just should divinely know how to be a mother at the birth of a child, and shame on you if you didn't get that sort of download. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (09:42) Of course, mothering is a learned skill. As we alluded to before, we don't have the learning prior to becoming mothers often because they're not looking after lots of children and what have you. Then some women learning on the job. In the sense of vulnerability with the massive changes that have occurred and getting a sense that you're not a maiden anymore but you're not a mother yet, this is a classic challenge of matrescence, the becoming of a mother. Who am I? What does my purpose look like? It can be very derailing if that isn't held or there isn't a container to explain the transition. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (10:29) This is why I quite like the term adolescence, to compare to matrescence, because that's the only other thing that's comparable. Adolescence, you don't become and adult at your 18th birthday. It's obviously an important time. And you don't become a mother at the birth of your child, even though that's an obviously very important milestone to transformation. We know that adolescence has massive brain changes that occur during adolescence, but there are actually more brain changes that occur during a single pregnancy than for the entire adolescence. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (11:10) Again, it takes a few years for the adolescent to get used to their brain and they can seem kind of less human for a short period during that, but literally they start feeling more before they start thinking. That's part of ... and for mothers, it's a very similar thing. They can feel so much more than they ever have before, and their brain is infused with millions of oxytocin receptors that maidens don't have and men don't have. That is one of the critical issues in that early phase. This is why so many cultures have such deep cultural beliefs and teachings around holding mother in that early time because, if you think about it, oxytocin not only is the hormone of childbirth in all the contractions of the uterus, but it's also the hormone of skin to skin contact, intimacy, trust and safety. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (12:08) So essentially, the way I'm interpreting the research is that a mother's stress response system has gone from her previous me, am I safe, am I okay, to this oxytocin infused we. Are we safe, are we okay, does this make sense for us? That can sometimes be ... That is what the baby bubble is, but it also can sometimes extend way beyond the baby. Sometimes it can be the family unit. Sometimes it can be the community. Sometimes it can be the world. That is a very raw feeling that mothers can have. I hear so many mothers, they can't watch the news anymore, they cry at commercials. Their ability to be able to tolerate things really changes. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (12:53) They can feel like an alien at their workplace, whereas obviously their workplace hasn't changed at all. They have changed. So they're having to ... They are in a liminal space for a while, but the challenge is in the reintegration. One that their liminal space is allowed to go through its force of process, and this is what those cultural practises are essentially around. Then just to have a healthy reintegration. Otherwise, it can be quite destructive on some levels in terms of the mother's sense of self and her psyche and her emotional well-being. She knows that she's different, but no one's told her that she's going to be different. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (13:41) Trying to deal with that dissonance alone, it's fraught with problems. So a mother suffering on her own is one of the worst things ever really. I think, as a society, that would have never happened in antiquity. Then we're seeing it happen all the time now. We're even seeing sub nuclear families now. Tahnee: (14:10) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (14:10) So intentional single parenting. Mothers who aren't having a primary partner, having children, so they have even less support than the overwhelmed nuclear family. I see a lot of mothers having to lean on their partners for emotional support, whereas traditionally a partner would have only been doing a small part of that. Tahnee: (14:33) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (14:34) And the mother could have leaned on so many other people, including aunties and grandmothers and sisters, and really be held deeply with a lot of experience. Yeah, so it's definitely a journey that's fraught with challenges. I think as a collective, and I think this is where you and I have a lot of overlap, is that we understand that. From a traditional Chinese medicine point of view, that's actually well described over many millennia that this potential vulnerability is there. As a collective, we have to make sure that mothers never go there wherever possible and support them as much as possible. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (15:20) A big part of my recent work is not only sort of helping mothers with postnatal depletion and other neuro inflammatory disorders, but actually to do really good postnatal planning. Tahnee: (15:31) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (15:32) To avoid the pothole in the road. If you can see it, then you can drive around it. Tahnee: (15:37) Totally, because so much work goes into birth plans. I can't remember how many people asked me about my birth, like every second person. Postpartum, nothing. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (15:50) Yeah, and if you can imagine having half the amount of energy that went into the birth plan going to your postnatal plan, and then enabling a team of people to enact it, because I think part of the ... Like the birth plan, a mother is in a liminal space during birth and she's in a very vulnerable space post birth. She shouldn't be the one enacting the birth plan or enacting the postnatal plan. She should have agreed on what it looks like and then things are happening without her having to really sort of focus on that, because that can be very challenging for a mother to kind of try to be an advocate in that birth space when she's in such an oxytocin infused vulnerable space, or to even have ... Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (16:43) She's often in such a time dilated baby bubble that it can be really hard to pull herself out of that to kind of negotiate- Tahnee: (16:53) A timeframe or delivery schedule, yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (16:53) ... food rosters, yeah. Tahnee: (16:53) What day is it? Who am I? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (16:54) Yeah, whose plate does this belong to. Tahnee: (17:00) Totally. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (17:01) And having to get stressed out by detail. So part of the birth plan is to enable the guardians. So they can be dads or other primary caregivers, and really give them the keys to the car, so to speak, so they're not having to keep on asking mom is it okay if we do this. What about just things that are happening? Tahnee: (17:25) Which I guess is sort of an impetus to articulate how you like to be supported. I think that's something where ... Certainly I'm speaking for myself and some friends that I've spoken to this about, but it can be hard to know what you need in that time, especially if you're a first time mum. I think if it's second or third ... I've had friends with a second baby who are like, all right, you're in charge of the food roster and you're in charge of this. They kind of knew what they would need. Tahnee: (17:51) So in your book, you speak about just the basics of getting enough sleep, good nutrition, those kinds of things. If someone is thinking about what's my postnatal care plan, what are the things that you think are essential to have on there? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (18:06) Yeah. So I talk about one month of deep rest, 100 days of deep support, and then priority on sleep for one year. So, that's kind of just some of the themes. I really try to enable the guardian, so the dads or the other primary caregivers, to be free of other duties. Their main job is to focus on the mother. Not focusing on the jobs that need to be done. We talk about visitors only start. If anyone's coming over, they've eventually got jobs to do. Tahnee: (18:42) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (18:44) To give them permission to do as little as possible. As we know with TCM and setting the moon, in traditional Chinese culture, the mothers are allowed to do essentially nothing. They're allowed to go to the toilet, feed the baby, feed themselves and that's it. Some places are not even allowed to shower in the first month. If you're seen with a newborn baby out on the street, in traditional China, you're going to get shooed back into your home pretty quickly. Tahnee: (19:15) Yeah, by one of those aunties. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (19:21) Yeah, yeah. Well, meaning they're quite full on aunties, yeah. Whereas we don't have that context or those sort of boundaries here. There are other things I sort of talk about with sort of postnatal planning is ... I think the food roster is just a great way. So again, food preferences, those kinds of things, email a group, WhatsApp group, whatever it looks like. Then the mother doesn't get involved. Tahnee: (19:46) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (19:46) Food's arriving. If somebody can't deliver, you've got your backup in the freezer, whatever. Mother doesn't even know. She's not having to kind of be pulled out of the baby bubble. I think social media is a really big trap, especially for the social media inclined. You want to show off your joy to the world, and I totally get that, but have that for four weeks, social media silence. That would be an accepted norm. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (20:21) For the baby and the mother and the birth weight and everything went well. See you in four weeks. Tahnee: (20:27) But you even talk about that, that focus on the birth weight, the stats and the kind of ... I remember reading that in your book. It's like there's this real emphasis on that, and then there's kind of just this like, great the baby is here. Forget about mom. Then it becomes baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (20:46) Yeah, and this was my personal experience. If the spotlight that had been so beautifully on mother during the pregnancy suddenly just disappears and suddenly, hang on, everyone's forgotten about her. I think is a collective ... that's literally what we've done. We're not honouring mothers and we're not honouring the great mother obviously in terms of what we're doing with global pollution and climate change. Who better to enable that change? I think mothers are able to teach children about being agents of change, and this is why we need mothers who are really just grounded, who are well in themselves, who reengage with their purpose. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (21:33) I call it the birth of the lioness's idea that, once a mother's at a vulnerable kind of stage with her mother upgrades in terms of all these extra brain neurons and receptors, and altered sort of stress responders and hormones, that she's actually got super powers that she didn't have before. She cares more than she ever has, and she'll often care about others more than she cares about herself. That's a gift and a curse, but the gift part of that is we need that sort of energy in all aspects of education, medicine, politics. Tahnee: (22:12) Life. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (22:13) Life. I keep coming back to the fact that there are 10 countries in the world that are governed by mothers, by women. Five of them at least, possibly six, are mothers from what I can see. 193 countries governed in the world, so it's a very small percentage, but are the countries that are doing the best from a COVID-19 point of view. Of those 12 countries governed by women, seven of the top 10 in terms of COVID stats are governed by women. Statistically, that's outrageous in terms of the correlation there. I think partly it's a culture that enables females to be prime minister's and it's also that those cultures are obviously more evolved. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (23:04) Then you've got people in places of power who care a whole lot, and that sounds quite obvious, but we're in a pretty low care political system. Tahnee: (23:18) But I think that ... I think what I've read in your book, and I'm hoping I'm getting this right, but it's like we need to wait a while. We need to wait until the kids are a bit older before we're sort of ready to express that super power. Would that be fair to say? I feel for me, my daughter is nearly four, and it's really time for me to step back from my leadership role and to give that over. Then there'll be a time when she's a bit more independent when I come back into that with that sort of gathered wisdom. Tahnee: (23:47) But that pressure to stay on and run the company and all those things, I've really had to drop that over the last four years. It's something that I can feel that I'm capacitated, but I can also feel that my priorities are elsewhere. I think I need to honour that shift in priority. So I wonder if you could talk to that. I know your wife was quite a go getter from what I sort of- Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (24:08) Yeah. Tahnee: (24:09) She's now the mum of three, so I imagine things have changed dramatically for her. So what's your sort of take on that shift? I watched Lucinda Ardern. She's just had a baby and she's running a country. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (24:21) Yeah. Tahnee: (24:21) That's not very good in my mind. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (24:21) Well, from a postnatal depletion point of view, I was like ... I think she must have gotten pregnant around the time of winning the election from what I can kind of gather. Tahnee: (24:32) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (24:34) Just doing a little bit of subtraction mathematics. She's had great support. Tahnee: (24:42) But she also said in an interview she sleeps four or five hours a night, lives on coffee. She's pushing it. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (24:48) Yeah. Tahnee: (24:49) I think that's where this fine line. I remember travelling for three months ... sorry, at three months with my daughter for a month, almost nonstop. It was dreadful. I felt terrible the whole time. I was barely keeping up. It's a totally different game when you have a kid. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (25:06) Yeah. Lucinda Ardern is probably quite an interesting example where she is supermom, but the idea of a supermom is actually quite dangerous and it shouldn't be something we're aiming for. Tahnee: (25:17) No. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (25:18) For me, an analogy is it's like driving around without your seat belt on going, look at me, I didn't have an accident. It's like, well yeah, but you should still wear the seat belt. I've often thought about this question, what is the ideal time. I think it's partly dependent on each mum, but when I kind of look at cultural groups, these are first nations or cultures that are still living quite traditionally, the mothers are very involved with a zero to one year old, but then thereafter the grandmother hypothesis. The one to five year old, even the mother is still very involved, the primary care giving is actually by the aunties and the grandmothers. Tahnee: (26:03) So that hypothesis, just for people that don't understand, is that the menopausal years are really about giving back to the community in service of raising children, and that the younger mothers were actually doing a lot of the physical work to keep the community going? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (26:19) Exactly. We're only one of two species that has menopause. Apes, for example, they just become less fertile until death. Tahnee: (26:31) Yes. Is it whales and us? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (26:31) Orca whales, yeah. There's probably one other whale that you're thinking about, but they know exactly why orcas have menopause at 30. So they're fertile from 15 to 30 and then they can live up to 80. Tahnee: (26:42) Wow. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (26:43) So these matriarchs pass on cultural knowledge and they learn seasonal changes. So they've studied orcas. It's a bit weird that they have a hypothesis for humans, but ... I think part of the programme, stopping of the ovaries at 15 and menopause is around, suddenly that cultural knowledge becomes more important than fertility and offspring, because you're supporting direct genetics. Tahnee: (27:15) Lineage, yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (27:15) Anyway. So it's investing in grandchildren and the great grandchildren, as opposed to more children. Because there can be so many seasonal changes, and then changes with climate that could occur naturally anyway, it's very important to have that flexibility. That can take a long time to learn. So grandmothers have a really important role. Again, we would have had children much younger. Tahnee: (27:49) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (27:49) The average age in Australia, one of the oldest countries in the world, 30.9 is the average age for your first child. Now that would have never happened in prehistory. That wouldn't have been the age of your first child. In this culture, we've had these deep practises to get mother back on board that first year. Baby bonding, really just focus on baby, and then she's kind of released from her role. So we need at least a year, but the effects of not allowing the hormonal system to recalibrate can cause neuro inflammation, which basically all the problems postnatally that we know about, postpartum fatigue, postnatal depression, all the mood disorders including anxiety and obsessive compulsive disorder, they are neuro inflammatory in nature, which are very different to men and maiden for similar symptoms. They're a unique group. Tahnee: (28:50) Mm-hmm (affirmative). So you're saying postpartum, all of those symptoms or syndromes can be traced back to this inflammation of the brain. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (28:59) Yeah. Tahnee: (28:59) Yeah, okay. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (29:00) It's a very tiny part of the brain. The research in the last few years has really increased in understanding of which parts of the brain and what you can potentially do about it is just really starting. So this idea of neuro inflammation is quite ... It's not new, but the idea with mothers in terms of as a community and as doctors and healers, this idea is relatively sort of new. It makes a lot of sense. The pattern fits exactly with what anyone sees clinically or if you're watching mothers kind of struggle with depression or fatigue, you realise this is not just stock standard symptoms. Tahnee: (29:47) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (29:47) There's something very different or unique going on. So with that neuro inflammation, that can last for years and years afterwards. The peak incidence of depression after a child is four to five years after birth of a child but, because it's outside the six months definition, they can't call it postnatal depression. They have to call it depression postnatally. So it just shows you there's an accumulation of factors that can occur. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (30:20) When they do electrical scans of a mother's brain who has depression, they look very different to a maiden's brain who has the same symptoms. We shouldn't be calling these conditions postpartum depression, postnatal anxiety. They should actually be postnatal neuro inflammatory disorder. Tahnee: (30:44) Yeah. The implication is you're not going to treat them with antidepressant in the same kind of treatment, right? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (30:51) It just happens that some of the antidepressants have an accidental effect on neuro inflammation through something called gabber. Tahnee: (30:57) Oh yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (30:58) Not through serotonin, which is ... Serotonin often takes two weeks for these medications to start working. If one of these serotonergic agents has this accidental gabber effect, you can start getting benefits within two to three days. Tahnee: (31:14) Okay, but then herbs like Mucuna and things that work on gabber as well are going to be beneficial, right? Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (31:20) One thing just to be aware of regarding that is the first ever approved drug for postpartum depression came out last year in America. It's not available in Australia. Tahnee: (31:30) I saw it, yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (31:31) Yeah, it's a pretty big topic, but I think what's profound about it is it's not actually a drug as much as a repurposed placental hormone that's been tweaked and infused into the mother who has depression, anxiety, can't look after herself. It essentially switches off that neuro inflammation within 12 hours typically. Tahnee: (31:59) Wow. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (31:59) So pretty profound that one hormone can help a psychiatric condition, or that a hormone or anything can switch off a psychiatric condition, because that's relatively new ground. Normally you'd be managing or treating, not switching off. They give it as an infusion over 60 hours and mothers usually don't relay need any treatment after that. Tahnee: (32:24) Wow. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (32:25) It's very expensive. It's not available in Australia, and I'm sure the pharmaceutical industry is going to do what it does and try to push it out to every mother who is struggling. But the idea is the unique landscape of the mother's brain, that this intervention probably wouldn't make much difference for a man or a maiden with the same symptoms. So if we can just really feel how profound that idea is, it's actually totally different. Anyone who works with mothers senses that. I think the science is just giving us permission to treat mothers differently, and it also is giving us an imperative that mother care is super, super important. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (33:17) I think one of the aha moments for me was looking at traditional Chinese medical texts when they described what happens to a mother who isn't supported. Even though the language is very different to what the concept of that a mother can be left in this fragile, nervous, depleted state ongoing, that's been known about for thousands of years. Hence the elaborate cultural practises and bullying by well meaning aunties because it's become- Tahnee: (33:59) They observed that and they found solutions, which is science really. It's replicable over time and we're watching generations of women benefit from that. But then we don't really want to adopt those practises necessarily in our culture because it feels like who's going to ... Even the binding and all of those things, it's so rare that that's- Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (34:22) It can almost seem antifeminist as well. Tahnee: (34:24) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (34:26) This is some of the feedback that I've certainly got from my mothers. What's quite cute for me is all my medical software that I use with pregnant mothers, it still has the initials EDC on there, estimated date of confinement. So it's alluding back to kind of the Victorian idea that mothers needed to be confined. Of course that seems quite- Tahnee: (34:50) Antiquated. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (34:50) Yeah. That's very antifeminist, but the idea is that the confinement was a necessary part of the care. Then the confinement kind of occurred in hospitals, and then we just forgot about the confinement. Off you go, do what you want, good luck. Tahnee: (35:12) Yeah. I've always said feminism has a lot to answer for because I think even some of those concepts of supermom and that comparison of ... I used to say I'll just bring my daughter to work. It'll be fine. I think there was this programing, I suppose, around my own upbringing and what I'd sort of witnessed in media and my friends and peers. It seemed like they kind of had the baby and they maybe disappeared for a month and then they were back to normal, in inverted comma's invariably not. Tahnee: (35:44) But you talk about all of these things that come up. You talk in your book about treating women four years down the track that have all sorts of debilitating, whether it's anaemia or things like chronic colds and flues. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (35:57) Fatigue. Tahnee: (35:58) Fatigue. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (35:58) Sleep problems, emotional health. Tahnee: (35:59) Yeah, and it's like that's still happening. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (36:00) yeah. Tahnee: (36:02) It's almost normalised. So many of my mom friends would just sort of accept that you're tired all the time and your brain doesn't work properly, but I don't know that that's ... When I'm really careful, I actually feel really good, but I have to have very strong boundaries and really take responsibility for my health as a priority over anything else I do. I think that's the sense of we normalise this business and this kind of deep fatigue and exhaustion, but it's really not normal. It's what everyone does. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (36:33) Well, what's common. So what is normal and what is common. 50% of people get cancer in their lifetime, so that's pretty common. You cannot convince me that cancer is normal. Many conditions alike, diabetes 50% rate past the age of 50, heart disease. It's so common that they're normalised. America is interesting that it's often four or five years ahead of what the statistics show in Australia. Currently in America, and I'm expecting to see this in Australia in four to five years time, is the rate of PMS or perinatal mood and anxiety disorder. That can be depression, anxiety or obsessive compulsive disorder, is 40% within that first three to six months. Tahnee: (37:24) Wow. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (37:25) So that's ... it was 30, 20%, and we're seeing ... It's not that the diagnosis is getting better or more- Tahnee: (37:36) More sensitive, yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (37:38) It's just we're having more mothers that are just struggling and strung out, and really just pushed beyond their capacity, and then left in this neuro inflammatory state, and then they get the label, and then they get pharmaceutical treatment. Tahnee: (37:56) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (37:58) So if you see the rates increasing, we have to then go, well as a collective, are we just okay with that? Tahnee: (38:07) Yeah, take responsibility as a community. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (38:09) Yeah, also just go, okay, the stakes are getting higher. It's not that we're getting softer with each generation. It's just that there's epigenetic change over generations. I think there's more toxins, there's more- Tahnee: (38:22) Totally. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (38:23) The modern woman doesn't have any downtime, whereas the ancient woman had a lot of stress for sure, but she had a lot of downtime as well. Times of boredom, times of just relaxation. The modern 21st Century woman and the modern mother, it's 24/7. She just keeps peddling, keeps peddling, and isn't supported to not do that. Then the expectation is that's what a mother does. Why you can blame her. You wanted the child. You've got a healthy ... The negative feedback that a mother gets if she is struggling is terrible. The judgement from well meaning others. Tahnee: (39:05) Yeah, the undermining of their experience. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (39:07) Then a mother then judges herself, and then she starts undermining her own abilities. She may also pass it onto the next generation, this idea of the mother wound where intergenerational we can pass on the non supportive mothers. It doesn't have to be directly from your own mother. The mother wound is really about a cultural norm. Tahnee: (39:34) Collective, yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (39:36) I wasn't supported. I wasn't allowed to shine my light. Why should you? That's part of the unspoken energy that sort of can happen in between generations. Yeah, it's devastating. Tahnee: (39:51) It comes back to mother care, which is this essential what you do. So we're talking ... You mentioned a lot the autoimmune factor. I think, when I was pregnant, I was reading about how the baby's cells end up in the mother's heart or her brain or long after the kind of sharing a space. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (40:13) Yeah. Tahnee: (40:13) Which still blows me away sometimes. There was a baby in my belly. But yeah, that can lead to really drastic immunological ... it can have a really positive effect, I've read. It can have these sort of ... I know people who have not been able to eat gluten before and suddenly have great digestion and don't have those inflammation responses, but then it can go the other way too, right? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (40:33) Yeah. This is the- Tahnee: (40:35) Opportunity and curse, I guess. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (40:37) Well, it's placental inflammation really. You need some inflammation, but too much inflammation during pregnancy, the immune system can get quite stressed. Essentially, most autoimmune conditions, apart from Lupus, improve- Tahnee: (40:56) During pregnancy. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (40:57) During pregnancy. Mothers can feel amazing during pregnancy. Not all mothers, but because of progesterone and some of those other hormones. Then, once the placenta is delivered, you're in this vulnerable state, and then the immune rebound hypothesis is that the immune system can literally not only swing back to normal, but you've got a baby that's 50% foreign in you that swings too far the other way and becomes over reactive. So you can get a lot of things that are kicked off because of the pregnancy, and Hashimoto's seems to be one of those postpartum [inaudible 00:41:39]. Hashimoto's is an autoimmune disease of the thyroid seem to be conditions that may be very much pregnancy related, but the research is surprisingly sparse. Tahnee: (41:54) Really? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (41:54) Yeah. You think we'd know this really well. Again, we've got the wrong definitions. If you don't go to the endocrinologist or the rheumatologist within the first six months, you are treated like a man or a maiden. Tahnee: (42:10) Sure. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (42:10) They don't even ask you have you had kids. Tahnee: (42:13) That change hasn't been factored into a diagnosis. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (42:17) They're just going, do you have this condition, yes or no? Checklist, blood test, xrays, next and next, rather than looking at the timeline and going, you didn't have this before the pregnancy and you have it after the pregnancy. Sometimes mothers have no idea what's going on until maybe a year or two after the birth of the child. Then it kind of dawns on them that this is not just- Tahnee: (42:41) Yeah, fatigue. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (42:44) Fatigue or sleep deprivation. Tahnee: (42:44) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (42:46) So I think I really like this idea of a special field of medicine for mothers that we might call matriarchs or something like that to kind of really show the unique landscape and the unique things that can happen. We've got paediatrics, we've got geriatrics. Tahnee: (43:05) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (43:06) I think there's definitely enough research to kind of look at mothers as a separate group. Tahnee: (43:15) Yeah I seem to remember Chinese medicine, there was ... I can't remember her name now. It might come to me, but there was a textbook translation on sort of gynaecology. They did speak to treating mothers differently and at different stages since the birth as well. Maybe you've come across it. I'll see if I can find it, but I thought it was super interesting because it was sort of the first time I'd been exposed to that idea that you're different and that you might be different 10 years, 20 years. Tahnee: (43:46) I think from that cellular ... when they talk about the baby's cells, they can stay for a couple of decades sometimes. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (43:52) 20-30 years. Tahnee: (43:53) Yeah, which is like having a foreign cell in your body. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (43:58) It can somehow turn the system for good, but then it can also stress the system. This is probably what we're seeing with autoimmune diseases is too many foetal cells come into the mother's circulation and stressing the immune system too much. Tahnee: (44:11) So would that mean a more, sort of ... I can't remember the word right now, but the barrier of the placenta is more porous. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (44:20) Yeah, so leaky placenta. Researchers don't call it that, increased permeability of the placental membrane. Tahnee: (44:27) Permeability, that's the word. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (44:29) It's basically leaky placenta and this idea of preg formation. The placenta is going to be slightly leaky and we've had to revert to a very unique old type of placenta as humans that most apes and most mammals don't use. Tahnee: (44:43) Yeah, I think you were saying we're one of the only ones ... 20% of something are like us, or not even. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (44:48) Well, it's more the fact that it's not the classic mammal, advanced mammal placenta. Tahnee: (44:56) Okay, it's larger, right? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (44:59) It's larger and it has more surface area. Tahnee: (45:01) Yeah, okay. So it takes up more space. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (45:03) So rather than the kind of finger and finger type placenta, which is kind of a 50/50 transaction, it's what they call the mop in the bucket analogy to enable much wider surface area to enable more nutrients- Tahnee: (45:17) More blood flow. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (45:18) ... and essentially fat. So fat's one of the things that- Tahnee: (45:21) Yeah, in the last stages, a lot of fat. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (45:24) Seven grams of fat, which is a major biological back flip that the placenta has to do to enable that. So it means that the placenta is more easily damaged than the placenta of a horse or a pig or something like that, which are pretty stable. So you don't see inflammatory issues in these kinds of animals very often. Tahnee: (45:45) That makes me think, if a mother comes into pregnancy with leaky gut or something, is there a higher chance of her developing a leaky placenta? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (45:54) You would think so, but again zero research. Tahnee: (45:57) Yeah, this is hypothesis. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (45:59) If you've already got too much inflammation, increasing intestinal permeability or leaky gut, even sort of increased brain permeability, sort of leaky brain. Basically conditions of too much inflammation. So if you're having that going into pregnancy, it can work both ways. Sometimes people think it can actually have a massive healing effect with all these hormones. Tahnee: (46:27) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (46:28) I've seen that happen. Often I'll try to coach mothers who have had very negative pregnancies or postnatal experiences to then use subsequent pregnancies as a healing experience. Tahnee: (46:43) Yeah, that's a Chinese medicine concept too, that each pregnancy is an opportunity ... Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (46:47) Yeah, I love that. I call it harnessing the power of the placenta. The placenta produces hormones to a volume that we can't even imagine. Tahnee: (46:57) Yeah, it's an amazing organ just in terms of that it's not really either the child or the mother's either. It's this kind of thing. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (47:07) Genetically it's the child. Tahnee: (47:08) It's the child, yeah okay. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (47:09) But serving two masters. Tahnee: (47:11) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (47:14) It's having to kind of do a trade off sometimes. If it doesn't get it right, one or the other is going to suffer. Then it would be a bad outcome for both. Tahnee: (47:23) Yeah. So does the child initiate its formation, but the mother provides the nutrition for it, because from what I've understood there's this unusual sharing of resources in that it demands a lot of the mother and the mother will give more than she has if necessary. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (47:40) Yeah. So apart from vitamin D, which isn't even a vitamin. It's a- Tahnee: (47:45) Hormone. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (47:45) Pro-hormone, which is kind of a 50/50 sort of share. Everything else is preference for the child, even oxygen. So if a mother were to be drowning or something like that, she would drown first before the child because of fetal ... Haemoglobin will just grab onto the oxygen at the expense of the mother. So, that's how ... Not that it's a very nice example, but it's an example of just how profound that one way street is. Tahnee: (48:16) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (48:17) It's true with iron, with DHA, with basically all the vitamins, nutrients, minerals. Daylight robbery is one term I've heard. Tahnee: (48:25) Yeah, we used to call it a parasite. Kindly, but- Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (48:30) Yeah. So this is why the focus shouldn't be really on the child. It should be on the mother because, from an animal kingdom point of view, they've got quite a unique set up in terms of we've got this massive brain. People don't realise that we're not like any other animal. 20-25% of our energy goes to feeding our brain, whereas the next animal, which I think is a whale or a gorilla maybe, clocks in at about nine percent. Tahnee: (49:03) Wow. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (49:04) Nature's done a trade off that we have less muscles than other apes. We have shorter digestive tracks and a smaller liver to offset the cost. It's kind of like a budget. Tahnee: (49:17) Totally. You have this much for the brain, but you've got to lose the liver. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (49:20) Then the child is born much earlier because upright walking is more of the pelvis. Instead, we've got this massive head that other primates don't have. Tahnee: (49:30) Mm-hmm (affirmative). It has to get out before it gets too big to leave the birth canal. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (49:33) Yeah. They look at comparative studies are looking at apes. Humans should be born around 22 months. Tahnee: (49:46) For our perfect health. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (49:48) Well, for just how capable that infant is. Tahnee: (49:52) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (49:52) You look at other infants that can do stuff. Tahnee: (49:54) Totally, not just blimps. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (49:58) From chimpanzees and gorillas. So from nine months to 22 months, they've got this totally helpless being. Tahnee: (50:05) Little guy or girl. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (50:06) This is why, again, mother nature's had to work out some extra things in terms of more oxytocin to care more about this liability. Tahnee: (50:17) Sure, and that's where social sort of things came from. I think I've read some anthropolitical stuff that said the reason we've developed societies and cultures and all those villages was because we have these liabilities. It wasn't as easy to move around constantly with helpless babies. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (50:35) And we've grown those parts of the brain that enable ... If you look at chimps, they can live in groups of 30. Then enobos, who are much more social, can live in groups of 50. Tahnee: (50:50) Yeah, ours is like 150. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (50:52) 150, and that's because of gossip. No, no, gossip is not a bad thing. You have to keep connection with everyone in your tribe. Tahnee: (51:01) Mm-hmm (affirmative), so you'll talk about people. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (51:04) So you can talk about something you may not have seen for a few days, and that's ... of course it's meant to be a really healthy thing. People checking in, how's so and so down by the river? He's collecting fish from the tribe. How's he or she doing? So gossip is actually part of what enables us to live in those groups of 120 and 150. Then another instalment that we've had is the religious part of the brain that then we can live in super clans. So you can meet someone from a super clan and, if you share a religious ideology, that suddenly goes from 150 to thousands and thousands. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (51:41) Research around that is super interesting. The only problem is, when you have a super clan meeting another super clan with different religious ideologies and we don't need to get down to that- Tahnee: (51:52) We all know what happens. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (51:55) Especially if there's resources to be had. Tahnee: (51:58) Yeah. So one of the things I think, if we just want to start thinking about wrapping up, but the real ... I guess this sense that the mother can be prepared, because this is something I've always seen out of ancestral kind of writings on women. It's like there's this sense of before conception of building the mother's reserves, and then there's obviously the pregnancy, so sort of nutritious and well managed pregnancy. Chinese medicine is very big on that as well. I'm sure most other countries are too. Tahnee: (52:33) Then this sense of postpartum rebuilding the stores, rebuilding what's been kind of depleted through the pregnancy. That seems to be a really big missing factor in our thinking around pregnancy. I think the nutrition and stuff ... I had a friend who didn't eat anything except for chocolate for her whole pregnancy because she just felt crap the whole time. I'm sure she was okay. The baby is healthy, whatever, but there's this sense that it's not a huge priority a lot of the time for people. Tahnee: (53:04) So if you're talking nutrition and how to build ... I always think about building healthy blood, building healthy hormones and all these things. What are the main things you emphasise with your clients? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (53:15) One thing I've grown to realise in sort of many years of working with mothers is that, behind the hormonal system, behind the immune system and behind a lot of these layers that we kind of see is the nervous system. A key part of maintaining good health and a key part of recovering is around nervous system practises. So these are essentially things that enable us to recalibrate back to a zero point. Knowing that your inflammation, as an example, is immune system out of control. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (53:53) Then that drives the immune system, and then that drives the hormonal system, because those are key parts of the brain that decide hormones and the immune response or not are in the brain. When people say it's all in your head, they're being unkind, but they're kind of- Tahnee: (54:09) Kind of true. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (54:09) Yeah, unwittingly telling the truth. So, that's become much more of a theme. The nutrients, the supplements in the food I think all support, but if you're not doing the nervous system practises, then you're losing a lot of the benefit. Of course, the great nervous system practise is called sleep. We know that the average mother loses up to 700 hours of sleep in that first year, so she's already on the back foot. Tahnee: (54:43) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (54:43) So how to do you then support her nervous system during the day? Ideally we're doing nervous system practises preconception during pregnancy. I was talking before about 3:00 in the morning, you're baby's not sleeping, you haven't slept for months. That's not the time ideally to start nervous system practises. Tahnee: (55:06) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (55:10) So I'm really trying to coach a lot of my pre-mothers and pregnant mothers to really start looking into ... What's interesting with nervous system practise is the researchers often say that there is a sense of stillness. There's often paced respiration, so slowed down respiration, slow in breath, slow out breath. There are many things that can potentially tick a nervous system practise, meditation, gratitude practise, yoga, yoga nidra, micro naps, walking meditations, sometimes even craft or creative pursuits. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (55:50) Well, if you bring in the breath awareness, you can get into a flow [inaudible 00:55:53] that can really help recalibrate the nervous system. Just realising that can do way more than what a lot of supplements can do. Tahnee: (56:02) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (56:03) So we shouldn't just be focusing on that without really giving importance to those nervous system practise. Then re enabling mothers to do these things, because when you're 24/7 busy, the universe is never going to come along and say, hey mom, do you want to- Tahnee: (56:21) Take off an hour. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (56:22) Yeah, a 30 minute guided meditation. No one will disturb you. That's just not going to happen. Tahnee: (56:25) Okay. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (56:28) So ideally the concept's already there. The practise is already there. Then that inner circle, that team, the guardians- Tahnee: (56:37) Facilitating. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (56:38) Facilitating and honouring. It takes more than a tantrum for one of your kids to come knock that off your schedule. Whereas I see so many mothers just going, today was a weird day, I didn't do my practise. It's like, well when did you last do your practise? Two weeks ago. It's like, we really need to empower mothers to ... Something I've recently started comparing these nervous system practises to is like brushing your teeth. Dental health practise, you do it twice a day. You don't really think about it too much. It feels odd if we don't do it and we're looking for a longterm dental health. Teeth don't fall out tomorrow if you haven't brushed your teeth, but we'll kind of go out of our way. If we're out camping and we don't have a toothbrush, we'll sort it out pretty quickly usually. Tahnee: (57:36) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (57:38) So we kind of need a mental health practise, [inaudible 00:57:41] we don't have to really think about it too much and it feels a bit strange if we don't. Tahnee: (57:45) Yep. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (57:46) So what I really encourage mothers to do is what does that look like to you. Then what have you done in the past that might fit that. What are you thinking about that might fit that. Then you here a few suggestions. Then once you're doing those practises, guard them. Tahnee: (58:04) Yeah, with your life. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (58:05) Well, as if your life depends on it because, ironically, it does. Tahnee: (58:10) It does, yeah. You mentioned yoga nidra, and it's funny because I haven't had the experience of not ... I'm a yoga teacher and I had a practise since I was 15 at various degrees of commitment as I was in my 20s and stuff. But from my mid 20s to now, I've been very committed, and I can find myself, if I put on a major recording, it's the equivalent of a good nap for me or something like that. 20, 30 minutes can revitalise me. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (58:43) Yeah. Tahnee: (58:44) If I feel myself coming down with something, I can do a yoga nidra and it seems to ... What you're saying about it actually turning off the kind of stress response and the information makes some sense. It always puts me in that heal response. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (58:57) It's a recalibration. Tahnee: (58:59) Yeah. I don't get sick a lot of the time if I'm consistent with it. But it is something that ... I can imagine if it's not something in your repertoire, it can feel a little bit confronting to go and find. Do you have any resources or places, people that you recommend to your mums? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (59:19) Well, I first kind of acknowledge the situation. I explore what mothers have done in the past. It's kind of maybe that we have to reinvent the wheel. Yoga nidra is very easy to find. Many things on the web now, so I'm not kind of attached to any particular style. Essentially it's a guided meditation with body awareness and breath awareness. Tahnee: (59:43) So anything along those lines is going to be of service. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (59:47) Even micro napping where you technically you don't go to sleep. You touch a sleep space. Tahnee: (59:51) Like a liminal or half awake naps? Is that what you mean? Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (59:55) Yeah, for 15 or 20 minutes. Tahnee: (59:56) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (59:56) You literally touch the sleep space. You may need to put an alarm on. The guided meditation is kind of your alarm in some way because it- Tahnee: (01:00:02) Sure. It tells you to come up again. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:00:05) Yeah. You can get a good four hours after that. Even place like Google and all of these large corporations. Tahnee: (01:00:13) Yeah, we do it here. It's only twice a week. The guys have a half hour meditation session. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:00:22) Okay. Probably wht Google have sleep pods where they kind of expect people to have a micro nap, not because they care about their employee, but- Tahnee: (01:00:27) Better productivity Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:00:28) Well, then the product of your research. Your product nosedives after six hours. It doesn't matter who you are. Tahnee: (01:00:35) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:00:36) If you're a mother, if you're working, if you've had six hours you're toast. You need something rejuvenating and something that's relatively easy. I often talk to my mothers about cue points, and a cue point is where you are cued to do a relaxation of some sort. So a cue point might be on the toilet. It's usually a place where you're physically still. It doesn't always have to be. So at traffic lights. Literally in a cue at the super market, those kinds of things. Tahnee: (01:01:04) Cue, cue. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:01:06) That's just an invitation to do maybe five slow in breaths and five slow out breaths. It's really amazing when you become more practised at these things. You think oh my gosh, I kind of just felt a bit frazzled before, but I'm a little bit more centred now, a little bit more resilient. That can make all the difference. If you're doing that enough times and then you're doing some bigger practises once a week and looking at your nutrition and your purpose, and being active enough but not over-exercising, and eating the right food for your body type at the right kind of stage. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:01:44) Motherhood, that nervous system intervention can make all the difference. Then it can actually improve the quality of your sleep. There's so many ... I talk about a virtuous cycle. This is a vicious cycle. A vicious cycle is I haven't slept well, I'm so tired, my cortisol is low, my blood sugar is not great, I'm just eating on the run. I'm not making the best decisions, I'm frustrated, I'm getting angry and then I'm feeling bad about myself because of the anger. That's a real vicious cycle. Then I'm being combative with my partner. We're not having that kind of connection time. Then dominoes for that can be just a constant state. Tahnee: (01:02:28) Totally. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:02:29) A vicious cycle. Whereas a virtuous cycle is you do something that makes it a little bit easier to then maybe do some ... make a better food choice or make sure you protect that space for your nervous system practise that makes it easier for a healthy interaction with your partner, that makes it easy to then advocate for yourself. It makes it then easier to kind of see what's kind of going on, realise okay I actually need to kind of change a little bit. Tahnee: (01:02:53) Totally, react to your kids. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:02:55) Yeah, you just go, okay this isn't working, and have the energy and insight to kind of change in a healthy kind of way. Whereas, if you're just in postpartum rage or anger, while that energy is there to motivate change, the change is often not whether you want is what you're really desiring. Tahnee: (01:03:13) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:03:16) It fuels ... So again, it's not about perfection. It's just about slightly better. Tahnee: (01:03:21) Yeah. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:03:21) Then slightly better leads to slightly better. That's what a virtuous cycle is. Tahnee: (01:03:25) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Instead of those little steps in a downward spiral, it's little steps in an upward spiral. Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:03:31) Yeah. Sort of week to week, month to month. I often see mothers going, I'm still tired but I'm doing so much more and I feel better in myself, and I'm a bit clearer. The other thing is that I've stopped asking mothers how are you feeling because probably a better question is how much are you doing. Tahnee: (01:03:52) Mm-hmm (affirmative). Dr. Oscar Serrallach: (01:03:53) In
Senhoras e Senhores mais um episódio importante para nosso bem estar. Em um papo informal falamos sobre os FITONUTRIENTES. As perguntas foram realizadas por vocês la no meu instagram Respondemos muitas delas : O que são Fitonutrientes? Quais são anti inflamatórios? Quais meus Top 5? Quais substâncias naturais para o climatério? Podemos usa los para ajudar no tratamento de câncer? Quais os melhores fitonutrientes para insônia? Diferença entre chá Verde e Matcha Componentes do chá verde Insuficiência Renal e fitonutrientes Uma leve abordagem sobre: Chá verde, Curcuma, ashwagandha, Mucuna, Licorice, Rhodiola, Tulsi, Boswellia, Horny goat Weed, Marapuama, Cacau, Valeriana e muito mais... Confiram....Compartilhem....e deixem seus comentários la no insta .... Abraços Dr Duprat
We've got Dr Ralph Esposito (or Dr Espo as we like to call him) back on the pod today. We're stoked to have this legend on the show with us again, especially as we're celebrating the bro's this month for Brovember. Today Dr Espo shares his insights on men's health, particularly in areas of prostate care, men's hormones and men's mental health. With his extensive experience as a naturopath, licensed acupuncturist and functional medicine practitioner, Dr Espo is an absolute weapon of knowledge in his field of expertise, so strap yourself in and enjoy the ride. Mason and Dr Espo bro down on: The link between cortisol and prostate health. High insulin as a driving factor of dis-ease. The risk factors involved in prostrate cancer. Keeping up to date with your GP for regular prostrate exams. The male hormonal cascades. Testosterone and oestrogen. How the liver supports hormonal balance. The diet and lifestyle interventions a man can embody to prevent testosterone aromatisation. The importance of men's mental health and the shame that often surrounds it. Male "man-o-pause, aka andropause. Who is Dr Espo? Dr. Esposito is a naturopathic physician, licensed acupuncturist and functional medicine practitioner specializing in Hormones, Integrative Urology and Men's Health. His precise and personalized style embodies a progressive approach to medicine. He has been published and is a peer reviewer in well-respected medical journals. Furthermore, Dr. Esposito has authored several medical textbook chapters and has designed education modules for health professionals specifically on urological conditions, fertility, male and female hormone dysfunction, Low Testosterone, exercise, fitness, men’s health and sexual dysfunction. He has trained at NYU Integrative and Functional Urology Center. Dr. Esposito also holds a position as adjunct professor at New York University where he lectures on integrative medicine. Resources: Dr Espo Instagram SuperFeast Deer Antler SuperFeast Ashwagandha Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus we're on Spotify! Check Out The Transcript Here: Mason: Dr. Espo, welcome back, man. Dr. Espo: Wow, thanks so... I can't believe I'm back for almost, what is it, a third time? Mason: Yeah.... I've never said this before, but you're a friend of the show. Dr. Espo: Yes. [crosstalk 00:00:19]... I'm the best friend. Mason: Was it three years ago when we first had our chat over on my old podcast? Yeah, a second time having you here, and we're recording a little bit before, but now we're in Brovember. We're celebrating men's health, I was going to talk to you anyway, but one of the reasons I really wanted to have you on again is because in the last year for Movember... I don't know if everyone knows Movember. I think it's pretty synonymous with November now, you shave off, you grow Mo, and it's all about raising awareness and money for prostate health essentially. Is that right? Dr. Espo: Yeah, for cancers that impact men. So testicular cancer, prostate cancer, and also male mental health. Mason: Yeah. Nice. But I'm really awesome, and I learned a lot from you, so if you're not on the Instagram we're doing a lot of sharing of Ralph's posts especially through that last year, November and all the way up until currently. So get over there and look at those because there's heaps of juicy stuff, but we're going to be going into it today as well. And with Brovember, of course, we are going to be focusing, yes, and including those particular cancers that are affecting men, especially going to be looking at prostate health, but we're blowing it out into men's health. Mason: We're going to be of course talking about mental health as well, but blowing out into like all areas of health that are affecting men. So bro, let's start diving in. Now, of course, prostate health is something that is... I feel we just had a little conversation before about how you're still working in that clinic that you mentioned in the last podcast, which is awesome. And we were saying how, it's a little bit easier for you to get the patient's history, but often it's so incomplete and just how it's one of those things where when you're a bit younger you just don't value your medical history and how it's like, you don't value getting your taxes and finances in order until stuff starts hitting the fan. You go, "Oh shit, yeah, I really got to get on top of this." Mason: I mean, it's like that with prostate health is one of those things. All we need to do is just get a little bit of insight now, especially if you're a bit older, but when you're young, ideally start really understanding your physiology in your anatomy. So let's dive into prostate health. Do you want to just go start with just jamming with us about what it is and its function? Dr. Espo: Yeah. So the prostate is a gland that sits beneath the bladder. And if you're a man over the age of 40 or 45, sometimes 50, your doctor has probably stuck his finger in your rectum and did a prostate exam. And it's probably one of the most exciting things that men love to look forward to once they reach 50. But no, and in all honesty, it's an important test to get done because the prostate has... its primary function is for sexual function. It creates a fluid that allows your semen and your sperm to survive to inseminate or to impregnate an egg. Dr. Espo: Now, it's there your whole life, but as you get older, your prostate can start to enlarge and it also is susceptible to cancer. Now, the great thing about prostate cancer is that most men will die with prostate cancer than from prostate cancer. And the great thing is that it's also typically a very slow growing type of cancer. So what I usually tell men is by the time you're 65, 70 years old, you probably will have some type of prostate cancer cells in your body. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to kill you and it doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be a malignant. Dr. Espo: But I want to make sure that I'm protecting my body and preventing any type of cancer cells, especially prostate cancer, but any cancer from growing, because it seems to be one of the most prominent cancers in men. So it's a really important cancer to get on top of. And also it's easily to, well I don't want to call it easy, but it's one of the cancers that can be treated rather well compared to other types of cancers like pancreatic. Mason: And especially, just with lifestyle you mean? Dr. Espo: Yeah. So for prostate cancer, prostate cancer is largely a cancer of lifestyle. So there are genetic causes that contribute to it. So there is the BRCA gene, which is often associated with breast cancer, but in fact there are individuals who do have a BRCA mutation that can increase their risk of prostate cancer. So whenever I asked a man, speaking of family history, I say, "Hey, what's your family history of prostate cancer?" He might say, "Oh, I had an uncle had prostate cancer. And then I say, "Well what was your family history of breast cancer or ovarian cancer?" Dr. Espo: And they tell me, "Oh yeah, my mom had breast cancer or my sister had breast cancer." I'm like, okay, that tells me that it's a possibility, although it's not entirely likely not for certain that if your sister had breast cancer, she had a BRCA gene, but if she had a BRCA gene, it's possible that you too, you do as well. And that makes me super vigilant in making sure that your prostate cancer or your potential for prostate cancer is very low to minimum. Dr. Espo: So we know there's a lot of lifestyle things that increase the risk of prostate cancer. And we know that a plant-based diet, which is really hard to define, but we know that those who eat more leafy greens, berries, fruits like pomegranates, tomatoes, those are the foods that you want to have to protect your prostate and staying away from charred meats. And then you come into the conversation of sleep and then exercise, right? So all of these things together will reduce your risk. And there's a bunch of men who may have the BRCA but don't necessarily get prostate cancer. And I think that's where the lifestyle come into play. Mason: All right. So then with prostate cancer, you mentioned family. I just wanted to just throw in that, I remember there was a post too about brothers and if your brother has prostate cancer, the percentage going up. And so I obviously in the same family of that, but that was a pretty, that percentage was quite high. It's just worth knowing, I guess. Then let's stay in the preventative world, I guess like everything we've talked about, especially on that last podcast, we've talked a lot about herbs for men's health. Obviously you're not going to be able to focus on any area, whether it's testosterone optimization, sleep, the inclusion of certain herb's and adaptogens like Ashwagandha and Mucuna without largely affecting the prostate gland, I imagine. Is that just, obviously because you've created an environment where harmony can somewhat ensue or is prostate effected by high levels of stress as well or is there no real link there? Dr. Espo: No. No, no. okay. So a really good follow up question to this is what do you mean by stress? Mason: Yeah, well that's really great. Are we talking like what in terms of clinical markers, are we talking about hormonal markers with stress, are we talking about like a stealth stress that's in the mind? And that's really, really good distinction there. And I'd love for you to just take it in any way you feel is relevant. Dr. Espo: Yeah. So when it comes to stressors and prostate cancer, it's almost an arguable to say stress in an umbrella form is not going to be harmful. So in other words, stress is harmful for prostate cancer. And the reason why and most of the time what we see is that individuals who are highly stressed, which is often measured by cortisol because it's one of the major stress hormones. The other ones are the catecholomines like epinephrine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, noradrenaline those are basically our stress hormones. And then you have stress markers like interleukin-1, interleukin-1V, interleukin-6, et cetera, TNF, right? So all of these are markers, they fall within the umbrella of stress. And then they cause inflammation, right? Dr. Espo: So chronically elevated levels of cortisol can impair your immune system. And there's one immune cell that we know that is super helpful to protect against prostate cancer and those are NK cells, also known natural killer cells. And you're going to love this because mushrooms significantly improve the production of NK cells. It's one of the ingredients in there called AHC C, which is found mostly in mushrooms that increases the synthesis of and NK cells, which are targeted towards cancers and one of the cancers that has most effect on his prostate cancer. So- Mason: So good. Dr. Espo: Yeah, so if you wanted to develop an environment for prostate cancer to grow, to thrive, suppress the immune system, throw a bunch of inflammatory markers at it, and then feed it a diet full of sugar and you created a soup that prostate cancer will certainly love. I'm not sure exactly, it's actually hyperinsulinemia. Very, very high insulin levels for long periods of time, which will cause increase in IGF levels will cause prostate cancer cells to grow. It's not just the red meat, charred red meat, it's not just the stress. What I think is the catalyst is the insulin triggered by increased blood sugar, but also insulin can be triggered by increased cortisol levels. Mason: Can we just jump down the IGF a little bit? I mean, that insulin growth factor is something I've looked into. Especially when I got ask questions because it's obviously in existence in deer antler. A little bit different for us because we're using a deer antler velvet that isn't isolated yet here are a lot of there are a lot of isolated supplements out there with IGF in there. And I saw that it was pretty non conclusive with deer antler at least. But I was like, I couldn't say in terms of whether it was going to be an aggravator in those instances where... Even if there's a susceptibility and women asking as well in terms of having that same gene that makes them prone to breast cancer. I don't know if you've got any take on it? Dr. Espo: So is the question, does IGF, or exogenous IGF cause or is a major contributing factor to cancers? Mason: Even if it's just like a suspect? Yeah. Something like... Whether you know that or whether it's something you suspect? Dr. Espo: Yeah. So I think it's not just the IGF. Right... So a measure of IGF is growth hormone.... sorry. IGF is a measure of growth hormone. So you can measure growth hormone in the blood. It's highly inaccurate because it's pulsatile, which basically means growth hormone releasing hormone that tells your pituitary to release growth hormone. And that happens at various times throughout the day. So if you were to just take a random check of your growth hormone, that doesn't give you much information because it's just what was your growth hormone on November 2nd at 8:24 AM in the morning, right? Mason: Yeah. Dr. Espo: But IGF has a longer half-life and last longer. So by looking at IGF, you can look at growth hormone. And by understanding what growth hormone does to certain cancer cells, obviously causes them to grow, but there's a curve on it and it's we're at very low growth hormone levels the risk of Alzheimer's and cancers increase or high as you increase growth hormone, those things decrease. So the risk of cancers and Alzheimer's and chronic diseases decrease as you start giving more growth hormone. It's a super physiologic level. So very high levels of growth hormone, the risk goes up again. Mason: Got ya. Dr. Espo: It's like a U-shaped curve. Mason: Okay. Dr. Espo: And so when you tell me, does IGF cause cancer, number one, I'll never tell you that something causes cancer, but can it promote? Well, it depends on the environment that you are in. So there's a lot of bodybuilders who just take straight up insulin. I would say that is a higher risk for certain types of cancers. Actually, we know insulin can increase the risk of cancers. So I would say when you have to weigh the risk per verses benefit and really understand what is the relative risk, let's just put it into perspective of having a Snickers bar, it's probably more likely to increase your risk of developing a cancer promoting environment than deer antler or taking an exogenous type of supplement that might increase your own endogenous production. Mason: Yeah, man. Then that's the getting a like a... I always like to play around in the buffer of having a herb or is this a much an extent even like supplementation and minerals and all that kind of stuff within the whole form, majority of the time it gives you that buffer. But I like that man. It's cool. Thanks for giving me that perspective on that. And so with prostate health and when we get into testing, can you just jam a little bit about the PSA testing and just any myths around that and how we can actually be grounded and levelled and responsible in terms of how we're testing and then managing enlarged prostates or prostate cancer. If we get to that point at which we hopefully obviously don't because we're on the prevention bandwagon. Dr. Espo: Right. I was just having this conversation with a colleague the other day and a patient, and they're like, "Well, my doctor said I shouldn't test PSA." So okay, so you're 54 years old, your insulin levels at 18, which is high, your fasting insulin is that 18 typically it could be less than like 10 or nine. That's micro units per milliliter, and your doctor's telling me that there's really no point of testing PSA. So what else are you going to do to screen this guy to make sure he doesn't get prostate cancer? I'll just do a rectal exam. Those are highly insensitive. So basically the risk or the chance of you catching a prostate cancer on a rectal exam, if you are not a urologist is close to like 40% or 50% of the time. Mason: What have you got?... Obviously you've just got specialized training with urology. What are you particularly looking for? Just the feel? Dr. Espo: Just what you're feeling for. Mason: Yes. Dr. Espo: Right. So what's your feeling for is a nodule, you're feeling... So what I usually tell people is like if you make a fist, right, a normal- Mason: Don't tell me that's how you test? (laughing) Then you're doing it wrong. Dr. Espo: What kind of medical school did you go to? Okay. So if you are a urologist or a doctor and what's your feeling for is if you make a fist with your left hand, the palm, the left part of your hand, like at the bottom of your thumb, your femur eminence is a normal prostate. If you go on the opposite side of the culture to your pinky side, that's a boggy prostate. That's usually an enlarged prostate. And then you feel your knuckle. That's prostate cancer. So really hard is prostate cancer, normal buoyancy is.. Normal prostate and then really like just soft and mushy is more, more like an enlarged prostate. So that's when you do a DRE, what we call a DRE was a digital rectal exam. Dr. Espo: You're trying to see, number one, what is the size? Is it large or small? Do I feel any nodules? Is the median sulcus there? Which is like a little indentation, like a Walnut is that there? If that's not there, then that means the process is getting bigger. And then you obviously check for tenderness. So if I press it, does it hurt? Prostate cancer typically doesn't hurt, but prostatitis will. So if you're telling me that your PSA is elevated at seven, but you're telling me a burns on your pee and when you ejaculate, you're having pain, probably a prostatitis probably an infection or a chronic non bacterial prostatitis I'm less inclined to think that that's a prostate cancer also depends on your age. Mason: How would you, [crosstalk 00:17:56]. Dr. Espo: So let's say you had. Mason: Sorry. Dr. Espo: Had- Mason: No, no, no, I was just going to say with prostatitis, in terms of treatment do you go about that with just a different, you're just like case by case or do you have a protocol? Dr. Espo: It depends on the type of bacteria that's found. So you can do a.. Basically you could do a urine test or you can do a prosthetic massage test. So you'll get a urine test, test that then you palpate the prostate. So you basically press the prostate, try to get a sample from that and then see if there's any type of bacteria that are growing there. Mason: Right. Got you. Dr. Espo: So then that'll determine what the therapy will be. Now, look, you don't always have to go with antibiotics, but it depends on the duration and how bad it is. Now sometimes you'll find the bacteria with a person who is asymptomatic. And I would say, I don't know if we really need to go ahead and aggressively go after this, but it depends on the individual. My concern with a non-treated prostatitis or a prostate infection, is it becoming a chronic non-bacterial infection. And I see that all the time because you have a lot of urologists are, a lot of men won't go to the doctor. So if you're listening to this podcast, please, if you take nothing else from this, just go to the doctor and get a checkup. Just have your doctor examine you. Dr. Espo: So men won't go to the doctor, at the end when it's all resolved or they're feel like they're okay two months later, they're in chronic pain and there's no bacteria there because that bacteria has caused so much inflammation to the nerves and the prostate tissue that they can't recover. So as a naturopathic physician, my last option is an antibiotic, but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm completely opposed to it. Right. Because we then have to consider, like for example, if you're a 95-year-old woman who has a BMI of 17, and you have the pneumonia, I'm not giving you, oregano oil, go on antibiotics because your risk of dying is very high. So I take that approach with it. But certainly there are herbs that can be used that are natural antibacterial, antifungal, antiparasitic herbs that can help fight a prostate infection. The issue is that the prostate is such a hard area to reach. Mason: Yeah. Have you looked at other ways besides orally like have you in terms of suppositories or enemas or anything like that? Dr. Espo: Yeah. So those antibacterial herbs will not cross the colon or the rectum to get to the prostate. But there is research showing that the probiotics that colonize your colon will also colonize your prostate. Mason: Like bifidus? Dr. Espo: It depends on, I'm not sure which strain it was, but I know that when they gave individuals, whatever strains that they were giving them as a probiotic, it changed the flora in their prostate as well. Mason: Okay. Wow. Dr. Espo: So they do communicate and those nerves also communicate. So the nerves that impact your prostate also are impacting your rectum and your colon. So the first thing I ask men, well, who have our prostate chronic prostatitis. I asked them, "Well, are you eating dairy and are you constipated?" I look at those two things. I say, well, you're probably, if you're constipated, you're probably causing irritation to those nerves, which will also cause irritation to the prostate. Mason: Yeah. Right. Okay. So you get that colon connection there. Big time with the prostate. Right. Okay. Well let's- Dr. Espo: Speaking of the PSA, yes you can... I would check PSA. I checked PSA density, so I check how high is the PSA compared to the prostate? So just put it in comparison. A small prostate should make very little PSA and the large prostate will probably make a little bit more. But if you have a small prostate and your PSA is high, I'm more concerned than if you have a big prostate and your PSA is high. Mason: Okay. What ages are you recommending going and getting checked? Dr. Espo: It depends. So you know, you were discussing if you have a brother your risk of prostate cancer goes up. Typically, if a man has a first degree family member with prostate cancer, I'm screening them at about 40. Mason: Okay. Dr. Espo: Right. And that is only to get a baseline. Mason: Yeah. Right. Dr. Espo: Especially 40 if they're black or African American. All right. Mason: Yeah. African Americans are really prone to prostate cancer, right? Dr. Espo: They are more prone to prostate cancer than- Mason: African, like those African genetics. Dr. Espo: African or African American or black will typically have a higher risk of prostate cancer. They actually have a higher risk of aggressive prostate cancer. And that's the prostate cancer that you want to kill. Mason: Is that because I know that folks.. African folks are a little bit more susceptible to kidney deficiencies as well. Dr. Espo: Kidney again, so... Mason: Kidney deficiency in general. I mean, and I don't know if that's obviously in proximity might be a little bit of a connection. I don't know? Dr. Espo: Yeah. I haven't thought about it in that aspect. It's something that I think you should look into. I haven't thought about it that way. Mason: I mean, I haven't really either. That's kind of like just a little bit of a hobby looking at the elemental deficiency, constitutional stuff that comes out of Taoism and classical Chinese medicine. But I'll look into it. I'll put it on the list Ralph. Mason: And then when once you get past those inflammatory conditions and you start edging towards the realms of their being prostate cancer, how do you then gauge, when is it time to intervene using whether it's palpitation, PSA levels, age, so on and so forth. When is the surgeries rife? Right? People are getting rushed into prostate surgery. And there's like a lack of appropriateness. It's like none of you ever like practice much martial arts, but there's one thing you'd learn is an appropriate reaction to the stimulus, right? So if it's just a drunk friend, it's just like, cool, we'll just get him down. It's not an appropriate time to be breaking arms or choking out or anything like that. Mason: And that seems like the word cancer is thrown in someone's face and it's like no matter what type it is, it's like that same reaction having a very intense reaction to just a drunk friend that just needs to be cuffed a little bit. And I know some prostate cancers could definitely be aggressive. I'm obviously curious, I'm not an expert in the area, but what's appropriate action? Is rushing into surgery necessary? Are the levels of surgeries going on necessary. Is everyone getting hysterical about it? Let's dive in. Dr. Espo: I am so happy you asked that question because I don't if your viewers, obviously your viewers can't see the smile on face right now because I love that question. And you should actually just take a screenshot and just say, this is how Ralph is smiling. Mason: Oh, don't worry. We've got the video recording as well. So guys, you can jump over on Instagram TV or YouTube and catch the video. Dr. Espo: Let me make sure my hair's good. Mason: Yeah. I should've told you that. Dr. Espo: Okay. So I love this question because there are different types or grades or ratings of prostate cancer. So we usually rate prostate cancer based on something we call a Gleason, right? So a Gleason is a score that a pathologist will take a prostate tissue and say this patient has a Gleason. So the Gleason score is one to five, and you get two scores, so to a some of 10. So the pathologist can look at one set of cells and say this is a Gleason five, like that's really aggressive, poorly differentiated, this is a bad looking cancer. And then they can look at another one and say, well this one's also a Gleason five. This is also really poorly differentiated, really aggressive. You are a Gleason 10. Dr. Espo: I've seen a dozen of those where it's just like there is no option here. You have to have your prostate removed because this is really, really bad. So now the AUA, the American Urological Association suggest that prostatectomy or prostate surgery should be considered when you have a Gleason six or above... I'm sorry, a Gleason seven or above is when you should start considering that. A Gleason six is borderline. So I'm a little bit of the thought that you should really take in the totality of the presentation. So number one is how quickly has the prostate level been increasing? So if you went from prostate level of one to two to three to four over four years, I'm concerned, that's increasing quite, quite rapidly. Or if you're going to one to two, to four to eight, that's a doubling time. That's extremely risky. So that's something you take into consideration. Dr. Espo: Then you do something called The 4KScore and a 4KScore takes into consideration four different types of PSA. So when you get a regular PSA scores, you're giving you total PSA, you could also do free PSA and then The 4K add two more PSAs. And those, you have an algorithm, when you take into consideration and you include all of them, you get a score and if the score is above seven, your risk of having an aggressive prostate cancer is high. But if your score is less than seven, 7%, then your risk of having an aggressive prostate cancers is lower. So I used that as a consideration as well. Dr. Espo: Then you look at family history and then you look at diet and lifestyle. Like if you smoked and if you drank and if you ate like crap and you have this family history and you had a Gleason six, I'm probably going to tell you, you know what, let's be very, very aggressive with this. Then I would say we should do MP-MRI, which is called a Multi-parametric MRI, which is a very, very specific and very advanced MRI that can look at your prostate and identify nodules very, very clearly and then also identify how risky they are for prostate cancer. Dr. Espo: So your question was very simple, but it's a very complex scenario and algorithm. And essentially what it comes down to is urologists are a little bit more, they're really a bit more excited to do surgery because look, their thought is, well, if I see a sign of cancer, let me just get rid of it so there's very little to no risk. Rather than saying, Oh, let me just watch it. But a lot of men don't want to have prostatectomies, they don't want their prostate removed because it can lead to incontinence. It can lead to erectile dysfunction. It can lead to chronic pain and it's not a cure.... Dr. Espo: If you miss a little bit of your prostate during the surgery, there's a risk of it coming back. Now, it depends on if it's spread or not, but I've seen men who get a prostate removed, their PSA is zero and then two years later their PSA is at like 0.8 and I'm like, huh. Point eight is low, but it's high if you don't have a problem with prostate. There are some breast cancers that can cause a PSA to increase, but that's like a canary in a coal mine. So you have to take all of these things into consideration. Dr. Espo: What I usually tell men is see two urologists and then see a integrative naturopathic functional medicine doctor who understands urology, who understands prostate cancer so they can really just be your quarterback and show you, "This is the whole picture. I'm not here to remove your prostate and I'm also not here. I'm also here to make sure you live forever. I have your best interests in mind. I don't have your pros... You know, the surgery is not my best. It's not in my best interest. So let me give you my, you know, 40,000 foot view." Mason: Are urologists often surgeons as well? Dr. Espo: Yes. Most of the time they are, there are urologists who don't do surgery, but most of the time they do. Mason: [inaudible 00:31:07] Yeah. So what do they call them? Scalp jockeys. Dr. Espo: I can't remember that. Mason: I get it. If you've got a particular skill and you've been trained in a particular way, you want to play the safe game, but is it the safe game longterm, they don't have to be there 20 years from now with you when you don't have a prostate, so. Dr. Espo: Right. Mason: So man, thanks for that. Such good information. Really good. It's bringing up a lot of reminders for me, I can make sure I'm staying onto it, but especially, just being able to have this information to share with like family members fathers and all that. So it's like, yeah. Awesome. Now testosterone levels in general we've talked about in the last pod how we don't necessarily, we're not necessarily aiming to just have like through the roof testosterone levels that, having it in levels we can't even prove that increased levels are going to relate to like super increased output and it's generally just making sure that it's not bottomed out or super excessive. Is there an association between testosterone levels and prostate issues? First of I'll ask you that quick snappy question Dr. Espo: Prostate issues as a totality of prostate cancer? Mason: Well, just as a totality. Dr. Espo: So increased dihydrotestosterone and its metabolites can increase your risk of enlarged prostate and some type of prostate cancers, but it's not the testosterone that is the issue. So I answered your short question with a short answer, but if you really want me to go in, I can. Mason: Yeah. Well let's go. What's the issue there? Because obviously beyond prostate health, this is going to have a huge effect on our overall health. Dr. Espo: Yeah. So what we've found is that the dihydrotestosterone, there's a beta and an alpha metabolite we call 3 alpha diol and 3 beta diol. And those are metabolites of DHT, and DHT alone can bind to androgen receptors, it binds to androgen receptors with a significantly increased affinity compared to testosterone. That's why a lot of men who take testosterone and they get acne or they get alopecia. So they lose their hair. That's because of the androgen gen receptors. So it has all to do androgen receptor sensitivity. Mason: Really? They get alopecia from testosterone therapy? Dr. Espo: Yeah, they certainly can. Yep. But then you have to look at the DHT and its metabolites. And the literature shows that the metabolites, these alpha and beta dial metabolics of DAC combined two estrogen receptors, and if the estrogen receptors that can cause the prostate to become poorly differentiated. So there's SGO receptors that cause the prostate to grow largely, but not maliciously. And then there's estrogen receptors that cause the prostate to grow maliciously. And it's the metabolites of the HT that bind to those receptors that cause it to grow maliciously, malignantly cause it to grow, what we say poorly differentiated, which then will cause the prostate to be more prone to prostate cancer. Mason: So is it estrogen mimicking? Dr. Espo: It's not estrogen mimic? Well, that an interesting question. Is it estrogen mimicking? I guess if you had defined estrogen mimicking as the ability to bind to estrogen receptors, then yes, it would. Mason: All right. Are those are the same... I don't know much about these pathways, but always what sticks in my head is 16 alpha hydroxy estrone being one that is turning on that I don't know if this is like a bit generalized, but the genes that can lead to prostate and breast cancer, is that kind of in that realm of those receptors that have been here? Dr. Espo: Different, actually a little bit different. So it's the four hydroxy metabolite of estrogen, so the 4OH estrogone that is more detrimental. And what it does, it causes DNA adducts. So actually, it does bind to estrogen receptors, but it actually goes into the nucleus, bind to your DNA and breaks up these DNA bonds and causes DNA adducts. So it genuinely destroys your DNA directly, whereas the two hydroxy estrogone is less likely to do that, is a little bit more protective and is has a lower affinity to make DNA adducts. Dr. Espo: And a great way to get rid of four hydroxy estrogone and two hydroxy estrogone is with methylation. And as you know with the Dutch test, which I just think it's an exceptional test, you can test those metabolites in your urine and you can also see how much of that is be converted to the methylated forms. And that'll tell you, are you capable of getting rid of these things if and when you are exposed to them. Mason: Cool. Okay, great. I mean, yeah, like we love Carrie. And I think the ladies have had it. We've recommended Dutch tests a lot, but of course, guys, and I'm really feeling it. I don't know, I'd love to get in there myself and get some actual, there's some real live panels going, so worth going and doing. But so I mean, this is something that comes around to springtime at the moment here. It's liver season and we just naturally go in there and just increase those methylators and whether it's just the B12 and betaine''ss and broccoli's and MSM, methylsulfonylmethane and so on and so forth. Just I guess really good to just get in there and clean house as well. The cruciferous vegetables. Right? Dr. Espo: Absolutely. And I think beyond that is why not just get it at the source and prevent your body from aromatizing all of this testosterone into estrogen, into E1. Mason: So then we do go into the conversation of aromatase inhibitors. I mean, I know a favorite is nettle root? I guess like a passion flower kind of fits in there. Dr. Espo: Passion flower has crisen in it. Yep. Mason: Okay. And that's, and that's what's causing that action? Dr. Espo: Yes, it is. Doses have to be very high, however. A high dose will be- Mason: On which level? Dr. Espo: Of crisen. Mason: Of crisen, okay. Dr. Espo: Of crisen. So the doses have to be higher because it's absorbed pretty poorly. So there is one company, I don't know the name of it but they do like liposomal and- Mason: Livon it. Is it those guys, the little satchels? The little- Dr. Espo: I don't remember. What was it called? Mason: L-I-V-O-N. Livon. Dr. Espo: I don't remember. That might be them. I don't use very much. What I do is I try to establish a lifestyle that prevents you from aromatizing because I think that has a larger impact. It's kind of like taking a piss in the ocean. If you.. If you try to take a piss in the ocean, it feels like you're doing something, but in the grand scheme of things, you're really not doing too much. So I think making sure you're having a low insulin type of diet or diet that is not conducive to hyperinsulinemia and I bet is void or limited and alcohol because alcohol will induce aromatase enzyme. You exercise and keep body fat down and weight train and keep your anaerobic activity high so that you can induce growth hormone and testosterone and keep cortisol levels down because those are the things that will push you to aromatase. Mason: Speaking of training, man, you're looking good. Dr. Espo: Oh yeah. I actually injured my shoulder recently. So my- Mason: So you're like this is nothing? Dr. Espo: You don't look so big anymore. I said, yeah, because all I could do is work out my legs. So I said, "Give me till the summer. I'll have a bottom just like J-Lo. Mason: I notice how jacked curves we're looking. In terms of training, just briefly... your life revolves around the optimization often, and therefore you've been a men's health specialist. It's like a very, very relevant for us to take a peak into the routine. What type of training you're doing, and then off the back of that, just have you got any supplements and things that you've taking around your training routine would just be like really nice to just get an insight. And you say a lot on the Instagram, so I'll say it for you. You don't say that what you take, everyone should take. So this is just Dr.Espo's routine. Dr. Espo: Yeah, this is my own personal routine. So my type of training revolved around weight training with very little rest. I don't do a lot of power lifting. I'm not trying to be the world's strongest man. And my goal of training is to induce an anaerobic response to increase lactic acid in a very short period of time in order to induce an optimal hormonal response. Because we do know that lactic acid in a very short burst will cause your body and your lighting cells to make more testosterone. That we know that is the mechanism by which we think weight training increases testosterone. So that's number one. Dr. Espo: I don't do endurance exercise, so you won't catch me running a half marathon. The most, I'll probably run it as a five K because you know, beyond 45 minutes of endurance high intensity or high zone, zone four, zone five or zone, yeah, zone three, zone four type of wei.. Endurance training, you will start increasing cortisol levels at approximately the 45 to 60 minute Mark. So you won't catch me doing that. Instead, I do short bursts of exercise that allow me to increase my aerobic capacity. So that would be like the Airdyne or I'll do like the Tabata type of training as part of my cardio. And then my downtime is yoga and stretching. Dr. Espo: So I am not a yoga expert. I would love to be because my mobility is crap. But beyond the mobility part, I find that we do need a little bit of... I mean, I live in New York, man. It's intense. It's stimulating. And I think yoga is a great way to just zone yourself out. Mason: What style of yoga's are you doing? Dr. Espo: Yeah.And then my supplements are, I do creatine monohydrate. I do beta alanine, I do some branch chain amino acids because I do time restricted feeding. So I typically only eat for about six to eight hours of the day. And if I work out fasting, I want to make sure that I'm optimizing my muscle synthesis. So branching amino acids helped me do that. And then all my other... my herbs, I do rhodiola, ashwagandha I actually do some deer antler as well. I actually, honestly, I love yours. I've noticed the best impact with that. I know a few other companies, I've used it I'm not saying that to brown nose, I actually find your product to be very good. Mason: Thanks man. Yeah, it's a really good product. I'm really proud of that one. Dr. Espo: Yeah. And surprisingly, I kind of liked the taste of it, so don't [inaudible 00:43:28]. A lot of people are like, "I hate the taste." I'm like, "Oh, it's actually not that bad." Mason: Yeah, I agree. Dr. Espo: And then yeah, that's pretty much it. And then B vitamins and et cetera and fish oil. Mason: On the fish oil as well. You got to get those omega's in. Dr. Espo: Yes, absolutely. I do a lot of flax and chia, but I like to get my EPA and DHA straight, so I do that. Mason: Yeah, of course, man. So good. Hey before, you know, we've gone on for a little bit here, but we've got a while longer for possibly the most important conversation we'll be having in Brovember is around mental health. Suicide levels have been crazy high. Unacceptably high in men, in the Western world. I might just like open... Let's just open that book and dive down. Do you want to just like start us off in this conversation and your work around it? Dr. Espo: Yeah, I think this is a really important conversation to have because a lot of men don't really realize that one of major killers in men under the age of 30 is suicide or accidents or homicide. And it's really important to discuss because approximately 20% of all accidents and injuries are due to suicide in men, depending on your age. So usually from like 20 to about 35 is when you're at the highest risk. And as you get older, that risk tends to decrease. But I really want to emphasize the fact that mental health is super important and it's important because you need to know when you're not well, and it's okay to say when you're unwell. I think there's a little bit of a stigma around saying you're mentally fatigued or anxious or depressed or moody, right? Dr. Espo: It's like, no, only women can be moody around their period. Like, no, that's bullshit. Number one, not all women are moody around their period and men can be moody too. So it's okay to say that you're feeling that way. And certainly it's a life risk factor for young men. And I actually see it a lot more because I see more men, but you see young men who have the pressures of being like their dad or being like they're superheroes, right? And they want to do performance enhancing drugs and they want to take testosterone and they want to do all these things to improve their appearance or the way they appear to social media, right? But in the inside, all that shit is fake. Mason: It's all fake. Dr. Espo: It's all fake. My Instagram feed when you go into the search has bunch of guys like with six pack abs, eat this, not that have this to lose body fat. Like not everybody is like that. Mason: Well, and that's the thing about training. I mean... Dan Sipple, who introduced us, he was on the podcast and we were talking around about the shame sometimes that we have around building testosterone at this point. And really coming into this place where we're really potentiating ourselves, especially if you are aware of just how stupidly superficial and boofy, the #Gains Instagram fitness world is that doesn't necessarily seem to have much intention. Mason: And I think the other thing around these physical trainings is they're not embedded in a philosophy that has any ancient roots or any genuine intention that a human, a healthy human would have towards being just a beautiful person for themselves and community and have longevity in the way that they are, that they can continue just to, right up into the end, be able to have a chuckle and stay you know, contributing beautiful person. Mason: And so I think it's always important to realize how detrimental all that stuff is to mental health. And then where I found myself in when having my identity crisis. I wasn't in the bodybuilding kind of world, but I was definitely in the excessive health world that leads you down towards more orthorexia in obsession with what I was eating. But then you start getting into this like exasperation of like, if it's not about that identity crisis, if it's not about that, what is it about? Mason: And if there is that, well if they're, there's is, as I said, there's a that quagmire, which seems to not be, you can't on the mesh that desire to potentiate your physicality and be a robust human without associating with that part of yourself that historically had the identity wrapped so far up and in high up in those gains equaling you being a quality human or being someone that is worthy. And so I feel like that conversation is being had more and more. But not real question, I'll throw it back over to you now. I'm not necessarily the answer or anything, but yeah, you just brought that reflection up in me. Dr. Espo: Yeah. I mean I don't think there is an answer. I think the answer is just make sure you take care of yourself. You do need self care. You can't be macho and tough all the time. I meditate every morning. If I'm feeling down, I tell my girlfriend or I tell my family, "I'm not feeling well right now. Like I'm not doing okay." "Well why?" "Because I'm not sleeping or I'm stressed out over this." It's okay to say those things because they're there to help you and you need help sometimes. We can't be expected... just piggybacking on what you said, humans, we are social animals, we are group animals, and we do well when we have support and that's just how we've evolved. And we've seen this for centuries of just human culture and it's typically when we become supporting each other as when we can achieve the most. Dr. Espo: No one person has basically taken credit for the greatest inventions in the world, right? It's always been a collaborative process. And your health should be viewed the same way. If you want optimal health, it should be a collaborative process. So make sure you have the right social support, make sure you have the right access to foods, make sure you have the right access to doctors and physicians and therapists and acupuncturists and trainers and all of those, whatever you need. But build your clan so that it can support you. Don't expect to do this on your own. Dr. Espo: And I think that's the most important part about mental health is like, we do see a lot of mental health issues in today's society and we do see a lot of gun shootings. And whether that's a result of media or whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It's still exists and we should aware that it's manageable before it gets to that point. Mason: Couple of things just in terms of you talking to your family and just kind of say like, I'm not doing so well, not sleeping, not doing. I think the whole stigma around when men finally get to that point where they have to go down. It's like with the man flu, it's like tough and burly, hold on tough, tough, tough, tough. She'll be right, mate. And then if you do need to really go down, if you get the flu, the only way you can justify it as a lot of the time is to go into like victim and really sooky mode. Mason: And what you're talking about and just like has been really significant in my life is when you are asked like how you're doing, people who are close to you, of course you have to go around to saying it to strangers. But not needing it to be like really super charged and not necessarily needing to so much significance and victim- hood into it. Mason: Just being kind of like, how healthy it is just to release the pressure and just be like, "Yeah, not so great at the moment. I've just been like sad and I've been going down every now and then and not feeling like I have much motivation. I can't really see a point, whatever you know of. Although those are very significant feelings and you go and talk to someone. Even if it is like if it's not like a massive, big thing, just having like a real, it's almost a nonchalant sharing with your family. It doesn't have to come from like victimhood, but you don't have to do anything with them. You don't have to solve anything. It's just that gentle sharing consistently what you're feeling is really significant Dr. Espo: And it can make you feel better. Mason: Yeah. Dr. Espo: And that's really what we want. We just want you to be well, and just by saying it, "I'm not feeling so great right now." It's like, Oh, okay. I've been able to come to terms with that. Well, that's what meditation is, right? But I meditate every day. I'm thinking about a million different things while I'm meditating. But I still come back to my thought. I'm like, okay, I am thinking about those things, therefore I can overcome them and overthink them. Same thing about expressing your feelings. Mason: Yeah, that's significant in terms of many different styles of meditation, many different ways that you can practice and have reflection in the morning. But what you are speaking to is very simple, yet profound and almost can't be captured in one particular practice because it's synonymous with a healthy human who's giving yourself space to be like, ah, you know what? You would've just gone and distracted yourself all day. However, that obviously is very important to me and it's triggering a pattern and it's going to be playing out through my day. Maybe I can grab it and do something about it. That's so good, man. Hey, is there anything else you wanna say on that? Dr. Espo: No, I think we've hit all the right points. I just want men to know, you know, it's, we all feel that. Mason: Oh yeah, we do. I just went and had a recently at a good psychological little clean out to put it in a jovial sense. But I just went and had a week offline doing a bit of that work and feel all better for us and all the benefit of not having to do it on the sly and in the shadows. Dr. Espo: Absolutely. Mason: I'll let you go in a second. I just wanted to just quickly end on andropause. I know this is probably a huge conversation, but I know we probably have a somewhat of a handle on what it is, but can I just ask you from your perspective, what is andropause and what is it in very much if you want to get like energetic and spiritual about what it is for human, I'd kind of feel in that way. It's obviously a bridging, but physiologically I assume everything we've talked about is going to help us maintain an easy transition. But what can we prepare for and look out for in ourselves or when we're observing family members going through it? Dr. Espo: Yeah. I think in essence andropause or mano-pause or whatever you want to call it, is the point at which men start experiencing a change in their hormones. Similar to female menopause except female menopause typically happens sometimes like this, just like your hormones drop. Whereas men, I think after the age of 30, they lose about 1.1 to like 1.6% of their testosterone per year. All right. So it seems very slow progress and essentially it's a point in which a man feels less like his 20 or 30-year-old self. And it's a psychological experience. It's a physiological experience. Sex drive is lower. They don't recover from poor sleep as well. They don't recover from poor diet as well. They have more aches and pains from weight training. They're really sore after and they have sexual dysfunction and things like that. Dr. Espo: That is what... and then obviously they have low testosterone levels. They don't have low testosterone levels to be in menopause or andropause. So it's essentially a period in a man's life as to which they are experiencing these things, which can be contributed to low testosterone, but it doesn't have to happen when you're 50. So it can happen younger, but that we just call that hypogonadism or low testosterone or testosterone deficiency. But it can happen when you're like 70, and that's a normal response because over time your fertility does decrease and your brain does become fatigued if you're under the chronic stress of 70 years. Dr. Espo: So it's something that occurs frequently, but it's not necessarily normal. Like menopause, female menopause is a normal physiologic response. But with men, that doesn't have to be that way. And I think it's largely a lifestyle issue that's comorbid with obesity and metabolic syndrome and high insulin levels and weight gain and et cetera. Mason: Wow. So, yeah. Right. So it's like, it's just a little bit of a wake up call away then. Dr. Espo: Yeah. It's like, Hey, something's wrong here. The first thing I usually come in, the first thing to go is your sexual dysfunction. And when you notice that your penis isn't working as well, that should be a sign to say, all right, let me get on top of this because something's wrong. Mason: So I mean, it's almost like at that, when you kind of exit that lifespan and enter into that death span, right? Like I imagine it's that same like you've in a Taoist perspective, you've basically burned through your Jing and you therefore don't have the ability to maintain and manage, the function of the skeletal system, bone marrow and androgens. Right? Dr. Espo: Right. Exactly. So, in Chinese medicine, it's a Jing deficiency. Mason: All right. I love it. And it just the fact that andropause is a wake up call and you can start getting on top of your health now integrating all these things that we're talking about and not have to go through that process. You can give yourself a wake up calls in other ways that aren't as intense. Dr. Espo: Right. Mason: All right. Man, I love it. I really appreciate you coming on for Brovember and laying all this down. I know everyone else does. But let's tune in. Obviously you've got areas that you're deeply researching. Make sure you let me know when you start cracking into something like really new and juicy. Hit me up and we'll go for around four. Dr. Espo: You got it, man. Mason: I recommend everyone go and follow you on Insta. You really rocking it even just going back to your story highlights, you've got like a heaps of really deep information on there. Are you Dr. Ralph Espo, is that right? Dr. Espo: It's dr.ralphesposito. Mason: All right, Doc, I will put it in the show notes as well. And website? Dr. Espo: Right now it's just Instagram. That is under development. Mason: Okay. Sweet. Thanks so much, bro. Dr. Espo: (Thanks man. Thanks for having me.
Sage Dammers is the co-founder, CEO, product formulator, and chocolatier of Addictive Wellness, which makes my favorite sugar-free, keto, paleo heirloom raw chocolate with powerful adaptogens. See previous episodes and show notes on wokeandwired.com. Addictive Wellness Discount Code for my community: If you love chocolate and want to add more adaptogens to your life, get yourself some Addictive Wellness and make sure you use code BREAKFASTCRIMINALS to get 15% off. If you want to keep eating chocolate and reduce the amount of sugar you consume at the same time, this is perfect! I love the Addictive Wellness subscription with a variety of chocolate flavors, and my favorite flavor at the moment is BEAUTY with Mucuna, Tremella Mushroom, Chaga Mushroom and Blue Butterfly Pea Flower. This chocolate suits most dietary restrictions as it is vegan, gluten-free, dairy-free, paleo, keto and nut-free. In this episode, we discuss: What is conscious entrepreneurship? How social media played a key role in growing Addictive Wellness online business How Sage met his life and business partner Anna Blanca (an expanding story if you’re ready to meet a partner who sees the highest version of you!) How Sage and Anna Blanca started Addictive Wellness What are adaptogens? (Some adaptogens we cover are schizandra, chaga, reishi) How to take adaptogens consciously All about chocolate: Conventional chocolate VS heirloom chocolate The difference in cacao strains (GMO vs non-GMO) The benefits of chocolate Cacao as a “gateway health food” The kind of chocolate you can eat while on a candida diet What is MAO inhibitor and how does it work Why cacao can make adaptogens more effective Is cacao psychedelic? The components in chocolate that make you feel bliss Is chocolate environmentally friendly? How to shop for consciously produced chocolate cacao products Is “fair trade” and “organic” all that it’s hyped up to be? And more: Sage’s go-to practice for expanded consciousness – mantras Silence and presence as a way to connect to divine guidance What it was like growing up in a meditation center How Addictive Wellness gives back How to heal candida, balance blood sugar and clear acne the natural way (based on Sage’s personal experience).* *Medical Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and not intended to provide medical advice or to take the place of medical advice or treatment from a personal physician. Please consult a doctor with any questions specific to your health. Mentioned in this episode: Gurumayi Chidvilasananda Holographic Kinetics healing modality Paul Stamets: Website, Save The Bees initiative, Interview by Tim Ferriss, Interview by Joe Rogan Some adaptogens and supplements for skin that Sage recommends: Pau D'arco, Vitamin B5, Chaga. Topical solution: A mask made with Apple Cider Vinegar, Rhassoul Clay, Bentonite Clay and French Green Clay (you can buy a bundle of all three here); Rose Water and Witch Hazel. CANDIDA RECOVERY - The Complete Guide on the SuperFeast Podcast About Sage Dammers: Sage Dammers is the co-founder, CEO, product formulator, and chocolatier of Addictive Wellness. Fueled by a passionate desire to help people live the ultimate life and create a better world, Sage began as a teenager seeking out information that no mainstream school could offer in the areas of nutrition and traditional herbal systems of indigenous cultures. He has developed products internationally and given lectures on peak performance nutrition in Australia, Bali, America, and France. Connect with Sage and Addictive Wellness: www.AddictiveWellness.com www.SageDammers.com www.YouTube.com/AddictiveWellness www.Instragram.com/AddictiveWellness Connect with Woke & Wired: If you enjoyed the podcast, please share it. Subscribe, rate and review the show on iTunes. Your rating and review help more people discover it. Join the private Woke & Wired Facebook group. Tag me on Instagram @wokeandwired and let me know your favorite takeaways!
In Episode 143 of Keto Talk, Jimmy and Dr. Will Cole do a deep dive on the subject of Adaptogens–plant medicines, but not just any old plant medicines– and shine some light on what this means for your health. "I like to think of adaptogens like Captain Planet. When all the forces combined, they saved the day. Adaptogens are a whole kingdom of substances that all work together, but they all have their own strong suits as well." – Dr. Will Cole "Most people can find benefit from these adaptogens in their life right now." – Jimmy Moore What are Adaptogens? Adaptogens are a broad family of herbs and plant medicines that have been used for thousands of years throughout the world. To be labeled an adaptogen, a plant medicine must fulfill at least three specific criteria: They are generally safe (for just about everyone). They help you handle stress. They work to balance your hormones. How adaptogens work Stress and hormone pathways are connected – your body’s stress system, the sympathetic nervous system, controls hundreds of pathways that are responsible for inflammation, and when inflammation gets out of control, this can lead to hormonal problems like adrenal fatigue, low sex drive, and thyroid dysfunction. Adaptogens help to regulate the sympathetic nervous system so everything downstream works better. And because chronic inflammation is linked to many of the common health problems we see today, the medical literature has found adaptogens to have even more cool and far-reaching health benefits like: lowering cortisol levels regenerating brain cells alleviating depression and anxiety protecting heart health protecting the liver preventing and fighting cancer lowering cholesterol protecting against radiation balancing the immune system decreasing fatigue Adaptogen Superstars They all mediate stress, fight inflammation, and bring balance to your hormonal system but each adaptogen also has its own special set of skills. Here are the 12 most popular adaptogens and what you should know about each: 1. Ginseng: The pick-me-up Ginseng varieties, including Asian White, Asian Red, and American White, are great for those seeking an extra boost of energy without the jitters that can come from caffeine. Personally, I especially like to use it to combat jet lag. 2. Pearl: The beauty secret Crushed-up pearl powder is a great source of amino acids and will nourish skin, hair, and nails. 3. Rhodiola: The stress calmer Rhodiola rosea is good for people struggling with adrenal fatigue and fibromyalgia, but it can have a stimulating effect on the extra-sensitive, so take it before noon or it could keep you up at night. 4. Schisandra: The adrenal supporter Another super adrenal supporter, this berry is one I used on a regular basis during my journey recovering from adrenal fatigue. 5. Shilajit: The sex hormone igniter People with low libido or sex hormone imbalance can benefit from shilajit. This Ayurvedic herb’s name translates as “conqueror of mountains and destroyer of weakness.” Sounds good to me. 6. Ashwagandha: The thyroid + mood master A superstar adaptogen, this popular herb is a great tool in supporting optimal thyroid function. If you tend to get mood swings, ashwagandha may also be all the remedy you need. Just watch out – ashwagandha is a nightshade, which may aggravate symptoms (such as joint pain) in some people with autoimmune conditions. 7. Maca: The energizer Maca both boosts energy and calms anxiety. It’s also a rich source of vitamin C, making it an immunity enhancer. There are three types of maca powders: Red, yellow, and black. Red maca is the sweetest and mildest tasting. Yellow maca is the least sweet, and black maca is somewhere in between the two. 8. Holy Basil (Tulsi): The memory booster I recommend holy basil to my patients who complain of brain fog because it gently increases cognitive function. As a bonus, it’s also great for bloating and gas. 9. Ho Shou Wu: The libido pumper-upper Another great tool for people with a low sex drive, this herb has been used for thousands of years in Chinese medicine. 10. Mucuna pruriens: Nature’s chill pill This adaptogenic bean extract is jam-packed with L-DOPA, the precursor to the neurotransmitter dopamine. I take this daily as it helps with focus and calms me down during my busy day. 11. Eleuthero: The battery pack If you are dragging through the day, this herb is another great one for optimizing energy levels. Extra stressful week? Eleuthero is your go-to. 12. Adaptogenic mushrooms Within the adaptogenic kingdom, there is an extra-special group of medicinal mushrooms that offer some of the same hormone-balancing benefits as the adaptogens above and some extra immune-boosting qualities too. These include: Chaga Shiitake Himematsutake Lion’s Mane Turkey Tail Cordyceps Reishi What are adaptogens anyway? Adaptogens encompass a wide variety of different natural medicines from all corners of the globe that have a few things in common: They are generally safe and they have a balancing effect on something called the hypothalamic-pituitary-endocrine axis. This is the delicate dance between your brain and hormone system, and include your brain-adrenal (HPA) axis, brain-thyroid (HPT), and brain-gonadal axis (HPG). You need all these communication systems working in perfect harmony for a healthy mood, metabolism, energy, immune system, and sex drive. When your HP axis is unbalanced it leads to hormone problems like adrenal fatigue, thyroid problems, and libido issues. And nobody wants that. Like the colors of a rainbow or the superhero kids on Captain Planet, the inhabitants of the adaptogenic kingdom sometimes work brilliantly by themselves and sometimes cooperate synergistically with other complementary adaptogens. Usually available in powdered form, you can mix these into your morning coffee, make a caffeine-free tonic, or blend them into your daily smoothie. The next question is: Which ones do you need? Find your current health issue and I’ll give you a list, but always remember to pay attention to how your body responds to anything new. Poor complexion, Brittle nails, or Unhealthy hair: Pearl: This adaptogen of the sea is a great source of amino acids to help nourish hair, skin, and nails. Chaga: This superfood mushroom is loaded with antioxidants that help fight free radicals to keep skin youthful. Cordyceps: This is the ultimate anti-aging adaptogen. Not only does this mushroom increase antioxidants, but it decreases the pro-inflammatory monoamine oxidase and lipid peroxidation activity that causes us to age. Rhaponicum: Full of antioxidants, this root helps to promote cell health, keeping you young and vibrant. Jiaogulan: Consuming this adaptogen can actually help your body increase its production of superoxidase dismutase. This particular antioxidant protects your body’s cells from premature destruction and aging. Stress: Rhodiola: This herb can help reduce stress and is great for people with adrenal fatigue. However, if you are extra sensitive, be careful because it could potentially keep you up at night. Mucuna pruriens: This bean extract is packed with L-DOPA, which is the precursor to the neurotransmitter dopamine. I call this nature’s chill pill. Ashwagandha: Since it has the ability to regulate cortisol, your body’s stress hormone, this is a powerful calming tool to have on hand. Licorice root: Bring stress down with this cortisol-controlling Zen master. Hormone Balance: Schisandra: This berry supports your adrenals and can help fight adrenal fatigue. Cordyceps: For those struggling with adrenal fatigue, this is a great hormone balancer to help increase energy and stamina. Ashwagandha: The ultimate cortisol balancer, this helps to support your brain-adrenal (HPA) axis. This herb is also powerful when it comes to thyroid support. Since adaptogens are balancing in nature, ashwagandha in particular is great at boosting sluggish thyroid hormones. Licorice root: Just like ashwagandha, it helps to heal adrenal fatigue by balancing cortisol levels. Fatigue: Ginseng: Asian white, American white, Asian red, and Siberian (Eleuthero) all boost energy without the caffeine jitters. Maca: This herb is available in three different varieties: red, yellow, and black. Red is the sweetest but most mild tasting. Yellow is the least sweet, and black is right in the middle. They are all great energy boosters. Low Sex Drive: Shilajit: This herb is used in ayurvedic medicine and translates to “conqueror of mountains and destroyer of weakness.” Shilajit helps to lift up low libido and balance sex hormones. He shou wu: If sex were an herb, it would be he shou wu. Used for thousands of years in Chinese medicine, this herb helps increase sex drive in those with low libodos. Mix with shilajit for a sexual health tonic. Brain Fog: Holy basil (Tulsi): Start incorporating this into your wellness routine if you struggle with brain fog as it works to increase cognitive function. Lion’s mane: The nerve growth factors (NGFs) found in this mushroom can help regenerate and protect brain tissue. Rhaponticum: Some studies have shown that this root can stimulate brain activity. Immunity: Maca: Packed with vitamin C, this is a perfect immune booster. Chaga: Studies have shown this mushroom to have powerful antiviral effects as well as immune-balancing properties. Turkey tail: When consumed daily, it has been shown to improve immune function. Ashwagandha: This is traditionally used in ayurvedic medicine to help boost the immune system after being sick. Astragalus: Having strong immune-boosting abilities, this herb has been used to help restore immune function for people with weakened immune systems from cancer treatments or chronic illnesses. In addition, it has powerful antiviral and antibacterial properties. Anxiety and Depression: Lion’s mane: Studies have shown that the consumption of lion’s mane can reduce depression and anxiety. Ashwagandha: Taking ashwagandha has been shown to reduce anxiety by up to 44 percent! Blood Sugar Balance: Reishi: This magic mushroom helps to lower blood sugar levels by down-regulating-alpha-glucosidase, the enzyme responsible for breaking down starches into sugars. Digestive Issues: Holy basil (Tulsi): This little guy works hard to reduce bloating and gas, for those struggling with gut issues. Turkey tail: I often give this adaptogenic mushroom to my patients who are battling gut overgrowths like SIBO or candida. Licorice root: This has been used for years as a common remedy to help heal leaky gut syndrome since it is both soothing and anti-inflammatory. Cancer: Shiitake: Japanese studies have shown that this mushroom has the power to actually decrease tumor growth. Himematsutake: Also known as God’s mushroom, the protein blazein that is found in Himematsutake actually has the ability to kill some cancer cells. Studies have shown that cancer cells died after just a few days of treatment! Where the heck do I buy these? You can find many high-quality, organic adaptogens online and at health foods stores. Some of my favorite brains are Moon Juice, Sun Potion, Four Sigmatic, and Real Mushrooms.
HouseCall Intro for Libsyn For Saturday Welcome back to our weekend Cabral HouseCall shows! This is where we answer our community's wellness, weight loss, and anti-aging questions to help people get back on track! Check out today's questions: Jake: Hi Dr. Cabral, I have been really getting into your podcasts on Ayurvedic Medicine, and have really been getting into the doshas/body types. I really am seeing some trends amongst friends, family, and myself depending on body type. I have read a lot of the blood type diet and I am wondering if there are any correlations with Ayurvedic Medicine and blood type or the blood type diet? Thank you! Natalie: Hi Dr. Cabral, I'm hearing a lot of banter around the "meat only" diet. People often reference the inuit communities to support the long term efficacy. I would love to hear your perspective. Thank you so much! Natalie Kylie: Hi Stephen and team, I wanted to make enquiries with regards to your functional lab testing and coaching call included and then also your private concierge practice. I have been suffering with chronic illness for a number of years, two years ago I became so unwell I had to stop working and move back home with my family. With a history of gut issues, constipation, candida, bladder infections, eating disorder etc. The year leading up to moving back home, thyroid issues, loss of periods, strepteccocus overgrowth of 96%, liver congestion and my bowel stopped functioning completely on its own. I have tried many things and always learn to a more wholistic natural approach, I have definitely healed in many ways in the last few years but still my bowel requires daily supplements of herbals to function, I have lost a lot of weight due to not absorbing nutrients, I react easily to food and am on restricted foods no grain, limited protein, just fruit and vegetable all fresh and organic, I also react to many supplements and always have to approach with care, I still have thyroid issues and gut issues, and suffer exhaustion as well as nausea, cramping etc. I have been considering getting some of your tests done and was wondering if the cost is in US dollars? I am in Australia. And also the hair mineral analysis test, this doesn't work if you have coloured hair from hair dye does it? I also wanted to ask what tests you find are most beneficial, I was drawn toward the thyroid, and organic acids testing. But wanted to know what is recommended, cost is a consideration for me as well having spent so much on my health. I also wanted to ask re you private coaching and if this is an option how far in advance it is booked out, and is this also US dollars?I have been looking at your supplements and also different protocols, Saccharoyces boulardii I am actually allergic too and have tried in the past can you not use this if you do get testing and suggestions and perhaps something else be offered.Also how does the call work included in the functional lab tests if you are in Australia with time differences? Is it just one call you get?Thanks so much Kylie Darrell: Hey Dr. Cabral. Great show. Thank you for this. It has been a life changer for me, my family & friends. I'm writing from Tobago. I've used your search bar before asking and haven't seen anything on either Mucuna Pruriens or Shilajit. I heard they're both used un ayurvedic medicine. What are their benefits and do you recommend it for say a male in his late 20's (or anyone for that matter). Javier: Dear, Mr. Cabral. This is Javier (24 years old) from Peru - South America. It was hard to find a person that finally understands my symptoms but finally I found you so far from my country. Let's get to the point. Ive been following a Candida Diet for about 3 months at the request of my doctor. I experienced some kind of improvement the first month but I've felt little progress since then. I continue with the same symptoms: strong fatigue, muscular pains, difficulties from just getting up from the chair, walking and any kind of movements; long list of food sensitivities, but the most surprising fact for me is that I have so many difficulties in talking to people and reading and I also get sick very easily and frequently out of nothing. Ive already listened to some of your podcasts and I have run a Organic Acids Test in Great Plains Laboratory whose results will be ready in about 2 weeks. My question is what can I expect from these weird symptoms that have me deeply worried. I'd also love you to tell me what sources of carbohydrates I am allowed to eat during this Candida Cleanse Diet (maybe beets, carrots, sweet potatoes, berries, maca root, low glycemic fruits?), because I've been on a Keto Diet for 3 months and it seems far too long period of time for me since Im practicing weightlifting 4 days in a week (to keep my health and self-confidence up during this difficult times) and my thyroid profile is kind of low according to some blood tests I did a couple of weeks ago specially my T3 levels (1.81 pg/ml) Thank you so much in advance. Sincerely,Javier Sunny: Hi there! I have two questions: I think that I am a Vata-Pitta body type (primarily Vata), and am struggling to lose weight. In your podcast about diet plans, the Vata plan is geared more towards those who lose weight easily, however I need a plan that focuses on losing weight. So, would starches in the morning and grounding foods still be okay on the diet? Can you give more tips for Vata weight loss? Also, Will you be offering the Dosha body type analysis service to listeners? In one of your previous podcasts, you mentioned that we could send in photos for your team to analyze and come back with the correct dosha body type. I would love this! Adrianne: Dr. Cabral, Do you recommend or have any feedback on ear candling? I did it for the first time a couple weeks ago with positive results, but I would appreciate your thoughts. I was surprised it hadn't come up in 900 episodes. I am 37 years young and getting younger everyday, now that I am armed with your knowledge. The concept of removing toxicities, replacing deficiencies, and re-balancing the body, has been transnational for my family! T h a n k y o u ! Anonymous: Hi, Is it possible to get rid of some (or all) IgE food/environmental allergies? I have gone through some of the previous podcasts where you discuss IgG sensitivities going away after healing the gut, but does that apply to IgE reactions as well? I do not have the financial means to get functional medicine lab testing at this time or to see a functional medicine practitioner, but I am curious to know if, in general, IgE allergies can theoretically go away. If it is not possible for IgE allergies to go away, is it okay to eat the foods I'm mildly allergic to (no anaphylaxis) or should they all be avoided because they will increase inflammation? Thank you so much. Thank you for tuning into today's Cabral HouseCall and be sure to check back tomorrow where we answer more of our community’s questions! - - - Show Notes & Resources: http://StephenCabral.com/1044 - - - Get Your Question Answered: http://StephenCabral.com/askcabral - - - Dr. Cabral's New Book, The Rain Barrel Effect https://amzn.to/2H0W7Ge - - - Join the Community & Get Your Questions Answered: http://CabralSupportGroup.com - - - Dr. Cabral’s Most Popular Supplements: > “The Dr. Cabral Daily Protocol” (This is what Dr. Cabral does every day!) - - - > Dr. Cabral Detox (The fastest way to get well, lose weight, and feel great!) - - - > Daily Nutritional Support Shake (#1 “All-in-One recommendation in my practice) - - - > Daily Fruit & Vegetables Blend (22 organic fruit & vegetables “greens powder”) - - - > CBD Oil (Full-spectrum, 3rd part-tested & organically grown) - - - > Candida/Bacterial Overgrowth, Leaky Gut, Parasite & Speciality Supplement Packages - - - > See All Supplements: https://equilibriumnutrition.com/collections/supplements - - - Dr. Cabral’s Most Popular At-Home Lab Tests: > Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis (Test for mineral imbalances & heavy metal toxicity) - - - > Organic Acids Test (Test for 75 biomarkers including yeast & bacterial gut overgrowth, as well as vitamin levels) - - - > Thyroid + Adrenal + Hormone Test (Discover your complete thyroid, adrenal, hormone, vitamin D & insulin levels) - - - > Adrenal + Hormone Test (Run your adrenal & hormone levels) - - - > Food Sensitivity Test (Find out your hidden food sensitivities) - - - > Omega-3 Test (Discover your levels of inflammation related to your omega-6 to omega-3 levels) - - - > Stool Test (Use this test to uncover any bacterial, h. Pylori, or parasite overgrowth) - - - > Genetic Test (Use the #1 lab test to unlocking your DNA and what it means in terms of wellness, weight loss & anti-aging) - - - > Dr. Cabral’s “Big 5” Lab Tests (This package includes the 5 labs Dr. Cabral recommends all people run in his private practice) - - - > View all Functional Medicine lab tests (View all Functional Medicine lab tests you can do right at home for you and your family!)
Our first guest to the podcast – Dr Ralph is in the house! In today’s show, Mason and Dr Ralph explore all things men’s health and sexual dysfunction (and what you can do about it to get your sex drive rocking) and look at the tonic herbs that can 10x a man’s sexual health. Dr Ralph is a medical consultant and research analyser in New York and shares the most common health complaints he sees from his male patients. The guys cover erectile dysfunction, pornography, tips to resensitise the male body, sperm health and how it’s important to converse with your partner on these topics to regain a healthy sex life. The interaction between chemical neurotransmitters and molecules is explored and how they affect a male’s sexual function. Traditional Chinese Medicine philosophy is weaved throughout the podcast and several herbs and practical lifestyle practices are explored to reinvigorate the male function and energy. “Erectile dysfunction in younger men….is alarming….it should not be an issue in young fertile men” – Dr Ralph’ In today’s episode we will cover: The most common issue in men’s health and what to do about it Adaptogens for daddy issues?! The erectile dysfunction epidemic in young, fertile men The HPA axis and how it relates to the biological chain of events in the body Reishi as an immunomodulator and stress modulator How men completely underestimate how strong the mind is and what role it must play in health and sexual function Deer antler; the super yang herb to increase sexual vigour How stress is the key factor related to psychological issues of erectile dysfunction The connection between sleep, testosterone and sex drive The connection between sexual dysfunction and pornography The healthy nature of masturbation The fact that sharing with your partner your wants, needs and desires is critical to a healthy relationship and sexual function The magic of mucuna for men’s health Meditate and testosterone The immortal question: Is more testosterone ALWAYS better? The number one anti-erection molecule and what you can do to reduce it Testicular health 101 Colourful foods are high in antioxidants and great for testicular health And heaps more. Who is Dr Espo? Dr. Esposito is a naturopathic physician, licensed acupuncturist and functional medicine practitioner specializing in Hormones, Integrative Urology and Men's Health. His precise and personalized style embodies a progressive approach to medicine. He has been published and is a peer reviewer in well-respected medical journals. Furthermore, Dr. Esposito has authored several medical textbook chapters and has designed education modules for health professionals specifically on urological conditions, fertility, male and female hormone dysfunction, Low Testosterone, exercise, fitness, men’s health and sexual dysfunction. He has trained at NYU Integrative and Functional Urology Center. Dr. Esposito also holds a position as adjunct professor at New York University where he lectures on integrative medicine. Resources Dr Espo’s sitehttps://doctorespo.com/ Dr Espo’s instahttps://www.instagram.com/dr.ralphesposito/ Schizandra article https://www.superfeast.com.au/blogs/superblog/the-7-sexy-benefits-of-the-wonder-berry-schizandra HPA axis H-P-A- what? https://www.superfeast.com.au/blogs/superblog/stressssss-we-ve-all-heard-of-it-and-we-ve-all-experienced-it-but-what-is-actually-going-on-in-our-bodies-when-we-feel-stressed) Sleepy Reishi tonic recipe https://www.superfeast.com.au/blogs/superblog/the-greatest-reishi-mushroom-tonic-for-deep-sleep-recipe-and-video Reishi articlehttps://www.superfeast.com.au/blogs/superblog/long-live-the-reishi-queen DUTCH testhttps://dutchtest.com/ Deer Antlerhttps://www.superfeast.com.au/products/deer-antler-powdered-extract Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes.
This is Special English. I'm Mark Griffiths in Beijing. Here is the news.The recent WannaCry ransom ware outbreak across the world is the latest alarm about cyber security that demands immediate efforts at different levels, including international cooperation.It has been found that measures as simple as official Microsoft patch installation and security software update can work to fend off WannaCry in the largest cyber-attack in more than a decade. The hacking highlights the need for Internet users to heighten cyber security awareness.However, it also calls for systematic efforts as well as international cooperation to tackle cross-border challenges in a digitally connected world in order to affect a universal defense.A senior research fellow on cyber policy and security at Stanford University told the Xinhua News Agency that international cooperation on cyber security will be essential for a safer and more secure cyberspace.Herb Lin deplored the fact that countries have different views on how they intend to use cyberspace and the rules they want to apply have so far made it difficult to achieve international cooperation.Some experts foresee more attacks like WannaCry, which has hit more than 200,000 computers in some 150 countries since May 12. The vast majority of successful hacks require only the most basic techniques.This is Special English.Pharmaceutical company Merck recently won approval from the China Food and Drug Administration to sell its human papillomavirus vaccine, Gardasil, to help women fight cervical cancer.Developed by the US-based company in 2006, the vaccine has proved effective in protecting against the virus, better known as HPV, the chief cause of cervical cancer. The virus is found in almost all cervical cancer cases.Gardasil is the first HPV vaccine in the world and the second to be licensed for use in China.In July, Cervarix, an HPV vaccine developed by pharmaceutical GlaxoSmithKline, received approval to be sold on the Chinese mainland after almost 10 years of seeking approval.Gardasil is expected to be commercially available on the mainland in three to six months, which means women will no longer have to seek vaccinations outside of the mainland, in places such as Hong Kong.After breast cancer, cervical cancer is the second-most common cancer in women aged between 15 and 44 in China. China reports more than 130,000 cervical cancer cases a year, accounting for 28 percent of the global total.The HPV vaccine, as the first anti-cancer vaccine in the world, has proved effective in preventing cervical cancer and is seen as a breakthrough in the fight against the condition.Today, such vaccines are in use in around 120 countries and regions, including the United States, Australia and most European countries.You&`&re listening to Special English. I&`&m Mark Griffiths in Beijing.A 100-year-old medical technique could be used to achieve pregnancy in infertile women without the need for expensive in vitro fertilization treatments. That's according to researchers from the University of Adelaide and the South Australian Health and Medical Research Institute. The often overlooked historical technique, which involves "flushing" the woman&`&s fallopian tubes with iodised poppy seed oil, has been proven to be successful in aiding fertility.Research teams in Australia and the Netherlands say that the procedure, called HSG, was first carried out in 1917 and involved flushing the tubes with the oil during an X-ray. Professor Ben Mol from the University of Adelaide says that over the past century, pregnancy rates among infertile women reportedly increased after their tubes had been flushed with either water or oil during the X-ray procedure. Until now, it has been unclear whether the type of solution used in the procedure was influencing the change in fertility.He said the results have been even more exciting than scientists could have predicted, helping to confirm that an age-old medical technique still has an important place in modern medicine.According to the results of Mol&`&s study, around 35 percent of infertile women who underwent the procedure achieved successful pregnancies within six months of the HSG being performed.This is Special English.Some 1,730 new plant species were discovered globally in the last year, some of which have food and medicinal value. That's according to an annual report released recently by the Royal Botanical Gardens, Kew, based in England.Involving 128 scientists from 12 countries, RBG Kew&`&s State of the Worlds Plants report presents data never seen before on patterns affecting plants in different regions.New species of Manihot were discovered in Brazil that have the potential to be developed into better food crops, and new species of the climbing vine genus Mucuna, used in the treatment of Parkinson&`&s disease, were found in South East Asia and South and Central America.Kathy Willis, director of science at RBG Kew, says they have tried to make sure that this year&`&s State of the World&`&s Plants report goes beyond the numbers to look at the natural capital of plants -- how they are relevant and valuable to all aspects of our lives.The report also reveals that plants with thicker leaves and bark, more efficient water use, deeper roots, and higher wood density are better able to cope with future climate change.The report also highlights information on how new technology is helping to speed up the discovery and classification of plants that are providing important sign posts to the next food crops and actions in protecting some of the most important plant species globally.You&`&re listening to Special English. I&`&m Mark Griffiths in Beijing.Climate change is more real than ever. A new study has found a steady growth of moss in Antarctica over the past 50 years, and suggested that the continent will be greener in the future.The study was published recently in Current Biology, a scientific journal that covers all areas of biology. The research is led by Matthew Amesbury, a researcher at the University of Exeter in Britain.The Antarctic Peninsula might sound like a remote and untouched region, but the study showed that the effects of climate change are felt there, and it has been warming faster than the rest of the continent.The research team looked at 150 years&`& worth of data and found clear change points in the last 50 years, which showed the increase of moss cover. That could shift the ecosystem in Antarctica, driving it to simulate what has been observed in Arctic.Last month, the sea ice cover in the Arctic was record low, and that of Antarctic was near record low too, according to the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.This is Special English.The World Economic Forum on the Middle East and North Africa has been held with calls for increased support for youth and addressing unemployment and poverty.Officials during the forum at the Dead Sea said providing financial and moral support to the youth in the Middle East and reforming education were key in addressing the pressing challenges facing the region.The forum attracted more than 1,100 political and business leaders from more than 50 countries. The participants agreed that the world is facing many problems including high unemployment rate, fast population growth and political regional challenges. The problems are relentlessly seeking to thrive on the hopelessness and despair of the younger generation. The forum said providing hope and support are vital for the youth in the region.Crown Prince Hussein of Jordan said at the forum that what young people need most is for all to take a bet on them, and to support them, morally and financially, so they can create their own impact.The forum agreed that as 31 percent of young people in the region are unemployed, new initiatives and urgent action are needed. You&`&re listening to Special English. I&`&m Mark Griffiths in Beijing. You can access the program by logging on to crienglish.com. You can also find us on our Apple Podcast. Now the news continues.More than 30 national library curators and representatives from 20 countries and regions in Asia and Oceania gathered in Beijing to discuss the building of sustainable regional library networks.The participants came from countries including Australia, Japan, the Philippines and Papua New Guinea. They shared their experience in international cultural exchanges at the two-day conference hosted by the National Library of China.The National Library of China is promoting the establishment of the "Silk Road" international library alliance, and most of the participating libraries are from countries along the ancient trading route.The annual conference is hosted in turn by the participating libraries. This year marks the third time that China has hosted the event.This is Special English.A Peking opera adaptation of the Western masterpiece "Faust" was staged recently in Germany's western city of Wiesbaden, starting its premiere tour in the country.The opera was co-produced by China National Peking Opera Company and Italy&`&s Emilia Romagna Theater Foundation. It was performed as part of the International May Festival, a world-known traditional theater festival.The opera is based on the Western masterpiece "Faust", written by Johann Wolfgang Goethe more than 200 years ago. The Peking Opera adaptation combines music, vocal performances, mime, dance, and acrobatics.Since its debut in 2015, the opera has been staged over 70 times worldwide. It offers a creative blend of Western classics with oriental culture as well as presents a perfect cooperation between Chinese artists and performers from Italy and Germany.The opera has been added to this year&`&s German-Chinese cultural program, a national event in Germany featuring the theme "China Today" to celebrate the 45th anniversary of diplomatic ties between the two countries. You&`&re listening to Special English. I&`&m Mark Griffiths in Beijing.The first International Tea Expo has been held in east China's Zhejiang province, attracting tea vendors and companies from both home and abroad.The expo is held in Hangzhou, the provincial capital, at the venue where the G20 Summit was held. Over 1,000 enterprises from more than 30 countries participated in the event.President Xi Jinping sent a congratulatory letter to be read at the opening ceremony, extending his hope that the expo would give exposure to Chinese tea culture. He said he hopes the event will grow into an important platform for exchanges and cooperation between China and the rest of the world.The letter also included a call for the expo to promote both the tea industry and tea culture.This is Special English.The first China-themed library in Mexico has opened in a bid to promote cultural exchange.Books on Chinese history, culture, medicine and music, as well as digital and video archives, can be found at the new Chinese Library at Mexico City&`&s Anahuac University.Officials from China and the prestigious private university were on hand to inaugurate the 14th library of its kind worldwide, as part of celebrations marking 45 years of diplomatic ties between the two countries.Chinese officials say the library provides an opportunity for Mexico to know China better. It will also be a new platform for deepening educational, academic and cultural exchange between the two countries.The library currently has 6,000 books and 80,000 digital archives with information on China&`&s politics, economy, culture, science and technology, as well as education and history.Special software is provided, in both Spanish and English, for those who wish to learn Mandarin Chinese.This is Special English.As part of the celebration to mark the 100th anniversary of the Russian Revolution, an exhibition about the revolution has opened at the British Library.（全文见周六微信。）
The Awareness Revolution Podcast: Health | Personal Development | Conscious Living
The superherb revolution is just like the superfood revolution. We now have access to the most amazing herbs ever discovered. Just like with superfoods in the past, people were limited to the superherbs that grew in their area. Thanks to technological advances, we can easily hop on a computer, push a few buttons, and have the most powerful herbs in the world shipped right to our door. Whereas superfoods are food, superherbs are our medicine. Some superfoods are also considered superherbs, but superherbs are generally more on the medicinal side and less like food. Many of the superherbs can come from wild plants. This is an excellent way to get alkaloids from wild plants in our diet. You can buy them in stores, online, or you can even find them growing wild if you know how. In general, superherbs are typically tonic herbs. Tonic herbs are herbs that can be consumed regularly over long periods of time without you having a negative reaction to them. They're extremely safe and gentle. Tonic herbs are like a hybrid of food and medicine because they're medicinal but you consume them regularly like food. The dual directional nature of tonic herbs allow them to bring the immune system up or down, whichever is necessary. This level of intelligence is extremely beneficial for people who have auto-immune conditions. Some herbs, like garlic, should not be taken every day and they only have the ability to move the immune system in one direction – up. Because we have access to the best herbs from all around the world, it's best to take the top herbs from each herbal medical system and integrate them into your approach. When you combine the best herbs from the Chinese medical system, Ayurvedic medicine, and South American herbalism, you have a cutting-edge strategy that is unsurpassed by anything else in the world. Instead of health insurance it's heath assurance. It's the future of medicine, though it comes from our ancient past. Tip: Make your own tinctures with herbs because you can make them stronger for far less money. Top Superherbs Cat's Claw – extremely potent anti-viral Pau d'Arco – extremely potent anti-fungal Ginseng – Possibly the most famous herb in the world. Stay away from the cheap stuff because it's too young. Wild ginseng is highly prized and gets more expensive as it ages and gains Shen (Spirital) properties. Ginseng should be at least ten years old before you consume it. Highly regarded Shen tonic. Deer Antler – top Jing herb, boosts adrenals. Rejuvenation. Builds muscle. Shilajit – High amounts of fulvic acid. Mucuna – highest known source of L-Dopa. Great for people with Parkinson's Disease. Schizandra Berry – the “five flavored fruit.” Nourishes all three treasures (Jing, Qi, Shen). He Shou Wu - supplements the congenital life force of the kidneys, it improves hair quality and deeply nourishes and rejuvenates the whole body. Astragalus – qi tonic. Excellent for the immune system, energy, and lungs. Eucommia Bark – Excellent for building ligaments and fighting arthritis.
Sexual impotence—a loss of ability to maintain a full erection—affects most men at some time in their lives. It can be the result of feeling unwelcome, afraid of your own power, or experiencing a sense of inadequacy or depression about yourself. Such feelings strongly influence the behavior of your body. And when you can develop real awareness of how your lover feels, with patience and consideration, psychologically-caused impotence will often clear by itself. Other difficulties in maintaining an erection can be biochemical in nature. In men over the age of 35, this often happens during periods of prolonged stress, after illness, or simply as a result of having lived for too long on convenience foods, so your body has become depleted in essential minerals, trace elements and vitamins. When you have eaten like this, many of your metabolic processes no longer work properly. Then it's time to make some serious changes in the way you are eating, and keep your alcohol intake to a minimum. In the meantime, there are a number of effective plants for heightening your sexual energy: Mucuna Dopa—this is a powerful Ayurvedic herb, also known as velvet herb. A potent extract from the Mucuna pruriens seed, it heightens brain function, libido and muscle growth. It contains high concentrations of L-Dopa, a neurotransmitter which prompts a positive mental state of action and assertiveness. These are a few of the reasons Mucuna Dopa is an effective sexual enhancer for men. Start by taking one 166mg capsule between meals (containing 100mg of L-Dopa). Never take more than 6 a day and do not use if you are taking MAO inhibitors or any prescription drugs without first getting permission from your medical practitioner. Ginkgo biloba—not only boosts the flow of blood to the brain and enhances memory; it can increase circulation to the penis. The best way to take it for this purpose is in the form of a concentrated 24% standardized extract capsule, once or twice a day. Do not take more, since in large quantities gingko can cause loose bowels and irritability. One research project gave men 80 milligrams of gingko extract three times a day, with excellent results. It not only cleared impotence, it lifted the depression which often accompanies it. You can also get a ginkgo tincture: 1 teaspoon in a little water twice a day. Horny goat weed—has been known for 2000 years in traditional Chinese medicine to enhance both male and female libido. It increases blood circulation to the genitals. A study carried out in 2008 indicated that it can be as effective as Viagra but without the dangerous side-effects. One 1 gram tablet daily between meals is the usual recommended dose. Fava beans—can have an astounding effect on an erection. The first written record of this food's sexual benefits comes from ancient Rome, where Cicero used it to increase his own passion. Fava is also a good natural source of L-dopa (used to treat Parkinson's disease). It intensifies erections in many men, which is how fava got its reputation. One way to use fava beans is to make soup from them. See below for my recommendations. Source Naturals, Mucuna Dopa, 100 mg, 120 Capsules http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Mucuna-Dopa-100-mg-120-Capsules/14235?rcode=yes026 Paradise Herbs, Ginkgo Biloba, 120 Veggie Caps http://www.iherb.com/Paradise-Herbs-Ginkgo-Biloba-120-Veggie-Caps/4244?rcode=yes026 Planetary Herbals, Horny Goat Weed, Full Spectrum, 1,200 mg, 60 Tablets http://www.iherb.com/Planetary-Herbals-Horny-Goat-Weed-Full-Spectrum-1-200-mg-60-Tablets/1561?rcode=yes026 Bob's Red Mill, Fava Beans http://www.iherb.com/bob-s-red-mill-fava-beans-naturally-blanched-skinless-20-oz-567-g/9904?rcode=yes026 Dragon Herbs, Siberian Ginseng, Super Potency Extract http://www.iherb.com/dragon-herbs-siberian-ginseng-super-potency-extract-2-fl-oz-60-ml/22557?rcode=yes026
Sexual impotence—a loss of ability to maintain a full erection—affects most men at some time in their lives. It can be the result of feeling unwelcome, afraid of your own power, or experiencing a sense of inadequacy or depression about yourself. Such feelings strongly influence the behavior of your body. And when you can develop real awareness of how your lover feels, with patience and consideration, psychologically-caused impotence will often clear by itself. Other difficulties in maintaining an erection can be biochemical in nature. In men over the age of 35, this often happens during periods of prolonged stress, after illness, or simply as a result of having lived for too long on convenience foods, so your body has become depleted in essential minerals, trace elements and vitamins. When you have eaten like this, many of your metabolic processes no longer work properly. Then it’s time to make some serious changes in the way you are eating, and keep your alcohol intake to a minimum. In the meantime, there are a number of effective plants for heightening your sexual energy: Mucuna Dop Mucuna Dopa—this is a powerful Ayurvedic herb, also known as velvet herb. A potent extract from the Mucuna pruriens seed, it heightens brain function, libido and muscle growth. It contains high concentrations of L-Dopa, a neurotransmitter which prompts a positive mental state of action and assertiveness. These are a few of the reasons Mucuna Dopa is an effective sexual enhancer for men. Start by taking one 166mg capsule between meals (containing 100mg of L-Dopa). Never take more than 6 a day and do not use if you are taking MAO inhibitors or any prescription drugs without first getting permission from your medical practitioner. Ginkgo biloba Ginkgo biloba—not only boosts the flow of blood to the brain and enhances memory; it can increase circulation to the penis. The best way to take it for this purpose is in the form of a concentrated 24% standardized extract capsule, once or twice a day. Do not take more, since in large quantities gingko can cause loose bowels and irritability. One research project gave men 80 milligrams of gingko extract three times a day, with excellent results. It not only cleared impotence, it lifted the depression which often accompanies it. You can also get a ginkgo tincture: 1 teaspoon in a little water twice a day. Horny goat weed Horny goat weed—has been known for 2000 years in traditional Chinese medicine to enhance both male and female libido. It increases blood circulation to the genitals. A study carried out in 2008 indicated that it can be as effective as Viagra but without the dangerous side-effects. One 1 gram tablet daily between meals is the usual recommended dose. Fava beans Fava beans—can have an astounding effect on an erection. The first written record of this food’s sexual benefits comes from ancient Rome, where Cicero used it to increase his own passion. Fava is also a good natural source of L-dopa (used to treat Parkinson’s disease). It intensifies erections in many men, which is how fava got its reputation. One way to use fava beans is to make soup from them. Whatever products you buy it is essential that they are top quality and organic. Be warned, there are lots of cheap imitations which do not deliver on their promises. See below for my recommendations. Source Naturals, Mucuna Dopa, 100 mg, 120 Capsules Paradise Herbs, Ginkgo Biloba, 120 Veggie Caps Planetary Herbals, Horny Goat Weed, Full Spectrum, 1,200 mg, 60 Tablets Bob's Red Mill, Fava Beans Dragon Herbs, Siberian Ginseng, Super Potency Extract
Sexual impotence—a loss of ability to maintain a full erection—affects most men at some time in their lives. It can be the result of feeling unwelcome, afraid of your own power, or experiencing a sense of inadequacy or depression about yourself. Such feelings strongly influence the behavior of your body. And when you can develop real awareness of how your lover feels, with patience and consideration, psychologically-caused impotence will often clear by itself. Other difficulties in maintaining an erection can be biochemical in nature. In men over the age of 35, this often happens during periods of prolonged stress, after illness, or simply as a result of having lived for too long on convenience foods, so your body has become depleted in essential minerals, trace elements and vitamins. When you have eaten like this, many of your metabolic processes no longer work properly. Then it’s time to make some serious changes in the way you are eating, and keep your alcohol intake to a minimum. In the meantime, there are a number of effective plants for heightening your sexual energy: Mucuna Dop Mucuna Dopa—this is a powerful Ayurvedic herb, also known as velvet herb. A potent extract from the Mucuna pruriens seed, it heightens brain function, libido and muscle growth. It contains high concentrations of L-Dopa, a neurotransmitter which prompts a positive mental state of action and assertiveness. These are a few of the reasons Mucuna Dopa is an effective sexual enhancer for men. Start by taking one 166mg capsule between meals (containing 100mg of L-Dopa). Never take more than 6 a day and do not use if you are taking MAO inhibitors or any prescription drugs without first getting permission from your medical practitioner. Ginkgo biloba Ginkgo biloba—not only boosts the flow of blood to the brain and enhances memory; it can increase circulation to the penis. The best way to take it for this purpose is in the form of a concentrated 24% standardized extract capsule, once or twice a day. Do not take more, since in large quantities gingko can cause loose bowels and irritability. One research project gave men 80 milligrams of gingko extract three times a day, with excellent results. It not only cleared impotence, it lifted the depression which often accompanies it. You can also get a ginkgo tincture: 1 teaspoon in a little water twice a day. Horny goat weed Horny goat weed—has been known for 2000 years in traditional Chinese medicine to enhance both male and female libido. It increases blood circulation to the genitals. A study carried out in 2008 indicated that it can be as effective as Viagra but without the dangerous side-effects. One 1 gram tablet daily between meals is the usual recommended dose. Fava beans Fava beans—can have an astounding effect on an erection. The first written record of this food’s sexual benefits comes from ancient Rome, where Cicero used it to increase his own passion. Fava is also a good natural source of L-dopa (used to treat Parkinson’s disease). It intensifies erections in many men, which is how fava got its reputation. One way to use fava beans is to make soup from them. Whatever products you buy it is essential that they are top quality and organic. Be warned, there are lots of cheap imitations which do not deliver on their promises. See below for my recommendations. Source Naturals, Mucuna Dopa, 100 mg, 120 Capsules Paradise Herbs, Ginkgo Biloba, 120 Veggie Caps Planetary Herbals, Horny Goat Weed, Full Spectrum, 1,200 mg, 60 Tablets Bob's Red Mill, Fava Beans Dragon Herbs, Siberian Ginseng, Super Potency Extract
Live Life Aggressively Podcast w/Mike Mahler & Sincere Hogan
Dr. William Wong returns to discuss a topic many of our listeners asked that we discuss...Erectile Dysfunction & how to address it. With Valentine's Day around the corner, the timing for this episode could not be any better. Prepare to be educated, entertained, and informed, as we discuss a topic few want to personally talk about, but many definitely want to know more about. Plus, we go in depth about the following: Mike shares how he was instrumental in the title of Dr. Wong's new book on erectile dysfunction How do events such as daily stress or an extreme event such as sexual abuse play a part in contributing to erectile dysfunction What are the 4 things that are absolutely necessary to have an erection Why is dopamine so important for healthy sexual function Why should men NOT take cialis, levitra, or viagra How do fats fuel sex hormones and which fats should you consume for optimal sexual health Dr. Wong shares how fast food plays a major part in poor sexual health How does spinach help increase testosterone Why is Dr. Wong a big fan of highland maca Why everything you know about fish oil is wrong & what is a better alternative for recovery How does systemic enzymes play a major role in eradicating erectile dysfunction How does coffee help fight off ED Why pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly is making sure you will never get the best "natural" erection enhancer Why is is important to start "modifying" your training program "after" age 27 Why does the "1 minute man" syndrome happen & how can men avoid it All this and much more: Links & Resources mentioned in the show: Keep the LLA Podcast free by becoming a supporter on Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/llapodcast Dr. Wong's main site : http://docsprefer.com Dr. Wong's Enzyme Info: http://systemicenzymes.net Listen and download at http://strengthbymahler.com or http://newwarriortraining.com. also subscribe, download, rate & review us at:iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/live-life-aggressively-podcast/id646524617 Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/s?fid=34706&refid=stprAlso, be sure to "like" and connect with us on our Facebook fan page at http://facebook.com/llapodcast.
Check out our free sample of the David Wolfe Q and A Interview for November 2012. For access to the full 1.5 hour interview please visit www.thebestdayever.com. Each month David Wolfe answers your questions on the 'Ask David Wolfe' BDE forum.
Host Lucien Gauthier Interviews David Wolfe on the Superherb Revolution and the power of Superherbs like Mucuna and Noni to deliver superior nutrition and health.
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