Podcasts about Ebionites

→ Download the Practice Christianity Without Paul reflection booklet here (https://www.patreon.com/posts/jesus-faith-and-128319083) → Access the Paul-Free Church Statement of Faith (https://www.patreon.com/posts/church-statement-128321301) What does it mean to be a Christian without Paul? In this series finale, we walk through five alternate paths the Jesus movement could have taken—and still can—without relying on Paul's theology. From mystical wisdom to Jewish observance to political resistance, we explore practical ways to follow Jesus that aren't rooted in Pauline doctrine. Nate and Shelby also unveil a brand new “Paul-Free” Statement of Faith and share a reflection booklet for premium members. Paul Series:Part 1 (https://www.patreon.com/posts/123045409)Part 2 (https://www.patreon.com/posts/124165907)Part 3 (https://www.patreon.com/posts/125186503)Part 4 (https://www.patreon.com/posts/126248455)Part 5 (https://www.patreon.com/posts/128318250) Thoughts, questions, stories? Please email contact@almostheretical.com Chapters 00:00 Exploring the Existence of Paul and His Influence 12:06 Imagining Christianity Without Paul 22:28 The Ebionites and Early Christian Movements 23:26 Exploring Early Christian Beliefs 28:35 Potential Paths of Early Christianity 30:05 Modern Reflections on Following Jesus 37:36 Paths of Justice and Action 41:31 Reimagining Faith Without Paul Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

⁠⁠Support us on Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠---"And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." King James Bible, Acts 2:44"And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also." King James Bible, Acts 17:6Liam and Russian Sam are joined by once again by Jackson (@GraceCathedralPark) for a two thousand summary of American radicalism and the utopian tradition. Since ancient times, religious and moral conviction has compelled the most pious among us to leave this sinful world behind.Jewish groups like the Essenes and the Ebionites were joned by the earliest Christian monks in their complete rejection of secular society, preferring to live in intentional communities organized toward complete observance of religious commandments. These groups, who may have included the first followers of Jesus, held their property in common and believed they could lead mankind by their example toward a new moral world.By the European Middle Ages, Christian institutions had taken on all the venal and violent obligations of the state. Reformers seeking to challenge the worldly power of the church were met by centuries of brutal oppression. By the 16th century these contradictions had become too much to bear, with the eruption of the Protestant Reformation and the flowering of idealistic sectarians. Some of these groups, like the Anabaptists and the Diggers, sought to upend the material hierarchies of man and make all equal before God. When these groups were also hunted down, even by their fellow Protestants, the dream of a new beginning survived across the sea.Religious settlers like the Puritans and Quakers saw the wild American lands as a blank slate for their moral dreams, while more materialistic colonists used the New World to engineer new systems of extraction and domination unimaginable back home. Many of these groups created communes in the wilderness, some surviving for months and others for centuries. As Enlightenment writers argued for the equality of man based on reason rather than scripture, and the American and French Revolutions called all political secular communitarian projects also began to emerge. Most significant of all of these was New Harmony, the utopian experiment of reformed capitalist and lifelong idealist Robert Owen. Though New Harmony would not be a particularly long-lived commune, it cemented Owen as one of the most famous men of the early 19th century and a father of the socialist movement. Like many parents, Owen would see some of his children turn away from him, yet his lifelong agitation would lay the groundwork for more enduring transformative projects. While we now understand the utopian movement to have failed, Owen and his two thousands years of forebears succeeded in inspiring mankind to build a new moral world.Listen to the end of this one to hear about Jackson's own radical utopian dream: BYU for Owenism.

(Part 1 here) Who should guide your faith—James, Jesus' brother, or Paul, the visionary apostle? We dive into early Christianity history to explore a battle of beliefs. James rooted his leadership in the Jewish roots of Christianity, blending faith with works. Paul preached faith alone, shaping a global faith. We uncover their clash—faith and works: Paul vs James—through the Didache and the Ebionites' rejection of Paul. Tune in to decide whose voice speaks to you today. Thoughts, questions, stories? Please email  contact@almostheretical.com Become a member and get: 1. Bonus episodes and after shows 2. All full-length, ad-free episodes 3. Access to Heretical Together (our private community of 350+ listeners) Become a member: almostheretical.com/premium Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What was the purpose behind the communal living of the early Messianic sect? When a person is fully dedicated to following Yeshua they realize that so much in this world ultimately just does not matter that much.

What would Jesus do... in a world of ethical and spiritual dilemmas? In this episode, I sit down with a thought-provoking guest to discuss the intersection of spirituality, ethics, and the historical journey of religious traditions. Through questions like "How would Jesus treat animals?" and explorations of ancient texts, we unravel misconceptions and challenge long-held beliefs. This is a conversation about history, faith, and the pursuit of truth. Whether you're deeply religious, spiritual, or just curious, this episode will inspire you to think critically and compassionately about how we navigate our shared humanity.     Complete Timecodes & Topics Covered: (00:03:16 - 00:08:32) The Central Question of the Film How would Jesus treat animals? Discussing the ethical, spiritual, and historical implications of this provocative question. (00:08:32 - 00:14:21) Reconciling Faith and Ethics The journey from traditional religious practices to a more holistic understanding of faith, nature, and interconnectedness. (00:14:21 - 00:20:17) Uncovering the Nazarene Movement The origins and beliefs of the Nazarenes and how they challenged conventional interpretations of Jesus' life and teachings. (00:20:17 - 00:28:08) Jesus and the Den of Thieves Rethinking the famous temple scene and uncovering mistranslations that change its meaning entirely. (00:28:08 - 00:34:39) The Suppression of Truths Cultural traditions, religious orthodoxy, and the cost of asking uncomfortable questions. (00:34:39 - 00:44:18) Jesus and Animal Sacrifice Historical and scriptural evidence suggesting Jesus' stance on animal consumption and sacrifice. (00:44:18 - 00:50:03) The Lost Years of Jesus Speculating on the “lost years” of Jesus' life, including theories of education, travel, and spiritual practices. (00:50:03 - 00:57:35) The Early Christian Movements The sects and traditions that arose after Jesus' death, including the Nazarenes and the Ebionites. (00:57:35 - 01:04:34) New Discoveries in Early Christian Texts Analyzing the Gospel of Thomas, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other texts that reveal hidden truths about Jesus' teachings. (01:04:34 - 01:10:12) Dominion vs. Stewardship Challenging the mistranslation of “dominion” and how it reshaped humanity's relationship with nature and animals. (01:10:12 - End) Final Reflections & Takeaways Why asking difficult questions matters, and how this conversation can reshape our understanding of faith and ethics.     Special Thanks to Our Sponsors: Beekeepers: Go to www.beekeepersnaturals.com/DARIN or enter code DARIN to get 20% off your order. Trueniagen: Go to www.truniagen.com and use code Darin20 for 20% off  Therasage: Go to www.therasage.com and use code DARIN at checkout for 15% off     Find more from Darin: Website: https://darinolien.com/ Instagram: @Darinolien Book: darinolien.com/fatal-conveniences-book/ Down to Earth: darinolien.com/down-to-earth/     Find more from Kameron Waters Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kameronwaters/ Website: https://christspiracy.com/      Don't Forget: Subscribe, share this episode, and let us know your thoughts in the comments! Ready to start your super life journey? Let's go!

the Aramaic Gospel, Gospel of the Ebionites, Gospels of Nazzarine, Egyptians, James, Philip, Mary and Thomas. Plus Dialog of the Savior and Thunder Perfect Mind. Jeshoua ben Joseph, ben Yahweh, is showing us The Way to find the Kingdom of Heaven that lies within us.  From Steven's book Christ Enlightened, the Lost Teachings of Jesus Unveiled. 

James Brantingham honors the Virtual Alexandria to discuss his new book, A Gospel of the Hebrews. In our journey, we'll explore the Gnostic sects that influenced this work, such as the Sethians, Valentinians, and Ebionites. James will connect the dots to Gnostic beliefs and beginnings. We aim to understand the Hebrew Gospel of Matthew and its intriguing theology, which suggests that Jesus had a cosmic mother.Get the book: https://amzn.to/3Ure8UaGet Astro Gnosis 3 tickets: https://thegodabovegod.com/astro-gnosis-3/The Gnostic Tarot: https://www.makeplayingcards.com/sell/synkrasisHomepage: https://thegodabovegod.com/ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/aeonbyteAB Prime: https://thegodabovegod.com/members/subscription-levels/ Virtual Alexandria Academy: https://thegodabovegod.com/virtual-alexandria-academy/Voice Over services: https://thegodabovegod.com/voice-talent/ Astro Gnosis (Meet the Archons): https://thegodabovegod.com/meet-archon-replay/Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/aeon-byte-gnostic-radio/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Today I explore some key Sufi teachings compatible with the contemporary mystic or gnostic path called Sant Mat. The Sants and Radhaswamis of the living present highly value the mystic poetry and wisdom of Rumi, Hafiz, Rabia, Sarmad, Hazrat Sultan BaHU, Sanai, Baba Farid and so many other Sufi Faqir lovers of the Beloved, viewing them as being Saints of the highest order. Hear verses of Hakim Sanai on meditating the Mysteries of Creation, connecting with the Subtle Realms of dimensions beyond in what can be called Inner Space, the Kingdom of God within. I focus upon the Inner Sound Mysticism of some of the great Sufi Saints of the ages: Rumi, Fakhruddin ‘Iraqi, Shah Niaz, Hazrat Sultan BaHU, Hazrat Inayat Khan, and Dara Shikoh. An exploration of the vegan verses of Rumi is presented. There is an essay on how mystical schools of spirituality are very fragile and short-lived in this world of illusion, this realm of Samsara, the World of Changes, how usually there are typically only a few generations of living masters and then, after the passing of the last master, a mystic path or branch of a school of spirituality fades from the scene, unless of course it gets hijacked and repurposed, turned into another world religion with a very different focus (zombification). When the latter happens, often the earlier teachings and sacred texts undergo serious edits. What had been a shared knowledge about Inner Sound and Light meditation practices, vegetarian ethics and other key principles might even be reclassified as "apocryphal" or "extra canonical". Although there is an oppressive history of lost teachings of the Sound Current (The Lost Chord), that there are no permanent universities of mysticism on planet Earth, no surviving Pythagorean, or Valentinian gnostic schools of wisdom still with us with roots in antiquity, or a church of the Ebionites with copies of Sayings Gospel Q or the Gospel of the Hebrews, a hopeful message is presented that Life Always Begets New Life. As old mystic paths and sangats fade into the oblivion of time (Kal) they are replaced with new living schools of spirituality -- that it's always been this way. Seneca the Stoic: "Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end." There are also readings from Dr. Jagessar Das,  the Sar Bachan Radhaswami Prose Book One (Huzur Maharaj Rai Saligram), Sar Bachan Radhaswami Poetry Volume One (Swami Ji Maharaj), Prem Bani Radhasoami Volume One (Hazur Maharaj Rai Saligram), Tukarama, Russell Perkins (The Stranger of Galilee), and Baba Ram Singh. We conclude with the mystic poetry of Baba Farid the Sufi. Many of his mystic poetry verses are to be found in the Sikh Scriptures, also known as the Adi Granth. (Gurbani)    In Divine Love (Bhakti), Light, and Sound, At the Feet of the Masters, Radhasoami   James Bean Spiritual Awakening Radio Podcasts Sant Mat Satsang Podcasts Sant Mat Radhasoami A Satsang Without Walls Spiritual Awakening Radio Website: https://www.SpiritualAwakeningRadio.com        

It's as-if those who composed the Gospel of John decided to create a hymnbook. This is about the little-known discovery of a collection of early Christian psalms called, The Book of the Odes, written in Syriac-Aramaic, described by scholars as "some of the most beautiful songs of peace and joy that the world possesses." The Odes got mislabeled, misfiled, misunderstood, misplaced somewhere along the way becoming one of those Lost Books of the Bible. Time to explore this would-be book of New Testament psalms and that is finally gaining long overdue recognition and popularity in the 21st Century. This is one of two podcasts I've devoted to this inspiring collection of mystic-poems  and music -- The Odes of Solomon -- once viewed as a sacred text by Jewish Christians, Syriac Eastern Christianity, various Gnostic movements -- it's quoted in Pistis Sophia -- and other early Christian writings.  (Lost Books of the Bible)   References, Subjects, and Sources Include    Hymns, Psalms, Odes of Solomon, New Testament, Book of the Odes, New Testament Psalms, A New New Testament, Extra Canonical, Scriptures, Lost Books of the Bible, Bible, Apocrypha, Pseudepigrapha, Gnostic Scriptures, Early Christianity, Jesus Movement, Early Church, Christianity, Restoration, Gospel of John, Logos, The Word, Syriac, Aramaic, Greek, Coptic, Antioch, Syria, John Community, Johannite, Lectio Divina, Contemplation, Meditation, Sant Mat Radhasoami, Santmat, Sant Mat, Radhasoami, Radhaswami, Satsang,  Essenes, Ebionites, Gnosticism, Mystics, Religion, Mystic Poetry, Spirituality, Spiritual Podcasts, Spiritual Radio, Spiritual Seekers, Search For God, Cloud of Unknowing, Metaphysical Meditations, Paramahansa Yogananda, Confessions of Jacob Boehme, Saint John of the Cross, Nag Hammadi Library, Pistis Sophia, Egypt;   In Divine Love (Bhakti), Light, and Sound, At the Feet of the Masters, James Bean Spiritual Awakening Radio Podcasts Sant Mat Satsang Podcasts Sant Mat Radhasoami A Satsang Without Walls Spiritual Awakening Radio Website: https://www.SpiritualAwakeningRadio.com    

Is Jesus Christ God? Is he a man? Is he both? Spoiler alert: the mainstream Church answered with the both/and, but the factions on the fringes tended to choose one or the other. For our first heresy, we take a look at the Ebionites, and their New Testament-era predecessors, the so-called Judaizers. These concluded that Jesus Christ was a mere human. A human who became a prophet perhaps, but just a human. This is season 4, episode 2 of Way of the Fathers. Subscribe to the podcast here: https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/category/way-fathers/

There are a lot of ways to get Jesus wrong - Docetists, Gnostics, Ebionites, Dualists, Monophysits - to name a few. Getting Jesus right means starting with understanding his essential nature. 100% God and 100% human. This episode of Gospel Wabi Sabi explores why this makes a difference. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jeff-ebert/support

In the third century, the heresy of the Ebionites evolved into a more general form of adoptionism, still denying the divinity of Christ, and now emphasizing his status as an anointed, but adopted, son of God, much like the kings and prophets of the Old Testament. Adoptionism is also known as “dynamic monarchianism,” in part for its claim that it was preserving the oneness (monarchy) of God by denying the divinity of Christ. Links For more information on Justin Martyr, listen to Mike Aquilina's Episode 9: https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/justin-martyr-everything-good-is-ours/ To read Justin Martyr's First Apology: https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/fathers/view.cfm?recnum=1610&repos=8&subrepos=0&searchid=2368540 For more information on Irenaeus of Lyons, listen to Mike Aquilina's Episode 10: https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/irenaeus-lyon-putting-smack-down-on-heresy/ To read Irenaeus of Lyons' Demonstration of the Apostolic Teaching: https://www.tertullian.org/fathers/irenaeus_02_proof.htm For more information on Tertullian, listen to Mike Aquilina's Episode 13: https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/tertullian-and-theology-sarcasm/ and Episode 14: https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/tertullian-man-who-forged-words-and-invented-freedoms/ To read Tertullian's Against Praxeas: https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/fathers/view.cfm?recnum=1670&repos=8&subrepos=0&searchid=2368544 Read the Vatican document, Instruction on Certain Aspects of the “Theology of Liberation”: https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19840806_theology-liberation_en.html For more detail on the heresy of adoptionism, see the books:  Reading the Church Fathers: A History of the Early Church and the Development of Doctrine: https://sophiainstitute.com/product/reading-the-church-fathers/ and The Earliest Christologies: Five Images of Christ in the Post-Apostolic Age: https://www.ivpress.com/the-earliest-christologies   SIGN UP for Catholic Culture's Newsletter:  https://www.catholicculture.org/newsletters/ DONATE at:  http://www.catholicculture.org/donate/audio   To connect with Dr. James Papandrea, On YouTube - The Original Church:  https://www.youtube.com/@TheOriginalChurch Join the Original Church Community on Locals:  https://theoriginalchurch.locals.com/ Dr. Papandrea's Homepage:  http://www.jimpapandrea.com   Theme Music: Gaudeamus (Introit for the Feast of All Saints), sung by Jeff Ostrowski. Courtesy of Corpus Christi Watershed:  https://www.ccwatershed.org/

Listen to this episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts Today my guest is Thomas Gaston who's book is called Dynamic Monarchianism: the Earliest Christology? Dr. Gaston earned his Ph. D. from Oxford University and this book one of the fruits of that labor. In this interview we talk about the earliest Dynamic Monarchians, including Ebionites and Theodotus as well as how logos incarnational christology took off under the influence of Middle Platonism in the writings of Justin Martyr and his doctrinal successors. Dynamic Monarchians affirm the supremacy of the Father as the only true God and that Jesus was miraculously conceived, but did not pre-exist. The term more or less refers to what we today call "biblical unitarians," but typically applies to Christians that held this view in the second, third, and fourth centuries. https://youtu.be/FSPNRYEn5N4 —— Links —— Get Thomas Gaston's book on Amazon Follow Thomas Gaston at his website: Thomas-Gaston.com Check out Theophilus Press, the publishing arm of the Unitarian Christian Alliance Get the transcript of this episode Support Restitutio by donating here Join our Restitutio Facebook Group and follow Sean Finnegan on Twitter @RestitutioSF Leave a voice message via SpeakPipe with questions or comments and we may play them out on the air Intro music: Good Vibes by MBB Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) Free Download / Stream: Music promoted by Audio Library. Who is Sean Finnegan?  Read his bio here

Is Jesus Christ God? Is he a man? Is he both? Spoiler alert: the mainstream Church answered with the both/and, but the factions on the fringes tended to choose one or the other. For our first heresy, we take a look at the Ebionites, and their New Testament-era predecessors, the so-called Judaizers. These concluded that Jesus Christ was a mere human. A human who became a prophet perhaps, but just a human. Links For more information on Ignatius of Antioch, see Mike Aquilina's Episode 4: https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/episode-4-ignatius-antioch-to-know-jesus-christ-our-god/ To read Ignatius of Antioch's Letter to the Magnesians: https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/fathers/view.cfm?recnum=1629&repos=8&subrepos=0&searchid=2351277   To listen to Ignatius of Antioch's Letter to the Magnesians: https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/st-ignatius-antioch-letter-to-magnesians/ For more information on Irenaeus of Lyons, see Mike Aquilina's Episode 10: https://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/irenaeus-lyon-putting-smack-down-on-heresy/ For more detail on the Ebionite heresy, see the book:  The Earliest Christologies: Five Images of Christ in the Post-Apostolic Age https://www.ivpress.com/the-earliest-christologies SIGN UP for Catholic Culture's Newsletter:  https://www.catholicculture.org/newsletters/ DONATE at:  http://www.catholicculture.org/donate/audio To connect with Dr. James Papandrea, On YouTube - The Original Church:  https://www.youtube.com/@TheOriginalChurch Join the Original Church Community on Locals:  https://theoriginalchurch.locals.com/ Dr. Papandrea's Homepage:  http://www.jimpapandrea.com Theme Music: Gaudeamus (Introit for the Feast of All Saints), sung by Jeff Ostrowski. Courtesy of Corpus Christi Watershed:  https://www.ccwatershed.org/

Listen to this episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts For centuries heresy hunters have labeled those who deny the pre-existence of Jesus "adoptionists." This ancient category was based on the idea some Christian groups denied the virgin birth, thinking instead that Jesus became the son of God at his baptism when God adopted him. Modern scholars such as Bart Ehrman and Michael Bird employ this term to describe several early unitarian Christian groups. My guest today is Dr. Jeremiah Coogan, a scholar of the New Testament and early Christianity. He's written a really helpful journal article analyzing the early so-called adoptionist groups. His conclusion? None of them actually qualifies as adoptionists. https://youtu.be/zPL25MPwvbM —— Links —— Read Jeremiah Coogan's article here Visit Professor Coogan's faculty page More episodes on adoptionism See also my class on early church history Get the transcript of this episode Support Restitutio by donating here Join our Restitutio Facebook Group and follow Sean Finnegan on Twitter @RestitutioSF Leave a voice message via SpeakPipe with questions or comments and we may play them out on the air Intro music: Good Vibes by MBB Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) Free Download / Stream: Music promoted by Audio Library. Who is Sean Finnegan?  Read his bio here —— Interview Questions —— - Today I'm interviewing Dr. Jeremiah Coogan. He is the Assistant Professor of NT at the Jesuit School of Theology. He has a PhD from Notre Dame in Christianity and Judaism in Antiquity. Welcome to Restitutio, I'm so glad to talk with you today.- Today we're talking about your article "Rethinking Adoptionism: An Argument for Dismantling a Dubious Category," published in the Scottish Journal of Theology early this year. In this article you argue that the label of adoptionism is a problematic anachronism. To make sure everyone is up to speed on this issue, could you briefly describe what adoptionism is?- Describe the problem with modern scholars retrojecting Nicene controversies into earlier Christian history.- You argue that though there may have existed adoptionists somewhere in the ante-Nicene period, we have no evidence for them. What about Cerinthus?- Let's talk about the Ebionites? Weren't they adoptionists?- Do you think there's a connection between the Christian community of James in Jerusalem and the Ebionites?- What about Theodotus? He and his followers are often cited as adoptionists, but they affirmed the virginal conception of Christ, right? - Let's move on to Paul of Samosata. I see you cited Paul Sample. I got a hold of his dissertation from Northwestern a little while ago and was impressed to see he had collected and translated so many sources about Paul. What do you make of Paul of Samosata's christology?- So your conclusion after analyzing the evidence is that none of these authors were adoptionists? Why then, do you think scholars for so long have clung to this category? Do you think it was a delegitimizing tactic? Oh, they're not real Christians since they deny what Matthew and Luke say about the virgin birth…- What I look for in a source is virgin birth. If I find that, I know that the group can't hold adoptionism. - Let's talk about early high christology. You steered clear of it in your article, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts?- Have you had any feedback on your paper? - What are you working on now? - How can people find out more about you?- Thanks for talking with me today.

What is Ebionism / Ebionitism? What is an Ebionite? Why did the early church so strongly condemn Ebionism as a heresy? What did the Ebionites believe?

Not A Caveman Fixated on Bugs and Bees After All: John the Baptist's Wilderness Vegetarian Diet - Locust Beans Not Bugs - An Exploration of Early Christian Writings and Scholarly Texts Today on This Spiritual Awakening Radio Podcast. Nevermind the old Sunday school notion of John the Baptist being some weird caveman dude dining on bugs! John may have a tarnished caveman reputation of eating locusts and honey out in the wild, but this is really a story about copyists mistranslating a Greek word as "locust" ('a-k-r-i-d-e-s') instead of "carob"       ('e-g-k-r-i-d-e-s'). (Henry Ford: "Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty. Anyone who keeps learning stays young." Albert Einstein: "Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.")   Since my original research on this topic, a couple more early Christian apocryphal writings have come to light, have been made available in English. These add to the surprisingly large collection of vegetarian references in early Christian writings regarding the diet of John the Baptist. New Testament Apocrypha, Vol. III, by Tony Burke was published and some John the Baptist books are included. In one of the earlier volumes there was a John the Baptist text made available for the first time in English that has a vegetarian passage regarding John's diet in the wilderness. Included in the third volume are, The Birth of Holy John the Forerunner, and, The Decapitation of John the Forerunner, both containing plant-based passages about John's diet consisting of "locusts from the tree" (in the Middle east called "the Saint John's Tree", and "Carob Tree") and "wild honey", also "an abundance of bread and wild honey dripping from a rock". Clearly there was an understanding in early Christianity that this was referring to locust beans (carob pods), not insects. Carob pods do look a bit like locusts hanging from tree branches, hence the name. Locust beans can be ground up and used to make a kind of Middle eastern carob flour flat bread. There's a "cakes dipped in honey" reference in the Gospel of the Ebionites. The wild "honey" was not from bees but sticky desert fruit of some kind. So, as you'll hear being documented during this pod...cast, there are all these plant-based references to John's diet coming from many different sources, and scholars have noticed and discussed these: "Probably the most interesting of the changes from the familiar New Testament accounts of Jesus comes in the Gospel of the Ebionites description of John the Baptist, who, evidently, like his successor Jesus, maintained a strictly vegetarian cuisine." (Professor Bart Ehrman, Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew) "His [John the Baptist's] food was wild honey that tasted like manna, like a cake cooked in olive oil." (The Other Gospels, Accounts of Jesus from Outside the New Testament, by Bart Ehrman)   John the Baptist was a prophet with large number of followers in Israel and Transjordan regions. After his passing, several of his successors headed what became various rival Nasoraean (Nazorean) sects, one of those being Jesus and the Jesus movement. "Again Jesus said to his disciples: Truly I say to you, among all those born of women none has arisen greater than John the Baptizer." (Matthew 11:11, George Howard's translation of Shem-Tob's Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, described as "the oldest extant Hebrew version of the Gospel of Matthew")     May the Blessings Be James Bean Spiritual Awakening Radio Podcasts Sant Mat Satsang Podcasts A Satsang Without Walls https://www.SpiritualAwakeningRadio.com    

The earliest references to the story of Jesus Feeding the Five Thousand do not include any mentions of fish, only bread. The early church father Irenaeus, writing between 180 and 188 AD, does not say anything at all about the fish, only bread in connection with this Miraculous Feeding of the Multitude as if the gospels he was reading at the time didn't include anything about fishes with the loaves. The historian Eusebius, Arnobius, and several other early Christian writings also never include anything about "fishes" with the loaves, only the loaves, only the bread. It was originally an account about people being given bread. This has lead to some, including Keith Akers, author of the book, The Lost Religion of Jesus: Simple Living and Nonviolence in Early Christianity (also see his wonderful scholarly book, Disciples), to conclude that the making of this popular miracle story into a fish tale must have taken place sometime after Irenaeus and 188 AD. After that date must be when the final edit took place, when fish got added to the story about the Feeding of the Five Thousand, transforming it into the more familiar version people are acquainted with. Today, we examine the case of the missing fish, as well as textual variations between different manuscripts of the New Testament, including the spectacular example of a vegetarian saying of Jesus present in the Old Syriac-Aramaic Evangelion Da-Mepharreshe manuscripts of the Gospel of Luke but not present in the Greek manuscripts. This is another installment in a series of podcasts documenting the vegetarianism of the original Jesus Movement, also known as the Ebionites, Nasoraeans, grandchildren of the Essenes, Hebrew Christians, The Apostles, the Disciples, Christianity-Before-Paul: the folks in the early church Paul was arguing with about diet, including James the Just (of Jerusalem.)   In Divine Love (Bhakti), Light, and Sound, At the Feet of the Masters, Radhasoami James Bean Spiritual Awakening Radio Podcasts Sant Mat Satsang Podcasts Sant Mat Radhasoami A Satsang Without Walls https://www.SpiritualAwakeningRadio.com    

Listen to this episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts Recently Tom Huszti interviewed me for his YouTube channel, the Unitarian Anabaptist. We talked about the importance of geography, archeology, and Greco-Roman history for interpreting the bible, especially the New Testament. Next we delved into early church history, starting with the earliest forms of Jewish Christianity in the first and second centuries. We talked about the Jerusalem church, the Nazarenes, and the Ebionites. Next we considered the persecution many Christians faced at the hands of the Romans for their unwillingness to give their ultimate allegiance to Caesar. The conversation was wide ranging, but what came through over and over is the importance of studying the bible and history in order to restore authentic Christianity and live it out today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KefOimH6ZU —— Links —— For the trip to Greece and Turkey with Jerry Wierwille, see the itinerary here and the map here. Follow Huszti's YouTube Channel, the Unitarian Anabaptist Check out episode 478 Unitarian Anabaptist (Tom Huszti)  Get the free class on Early Church History here. Support Restitutio by donating here Join our Restitutio Facebook Group and follow Sean Finnegan on Twitter @RestitutioSF Leave a voice message via SpeakPipe with questions or comments and we may play them out on the air Intro music: Good Vibes by MBB Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) Free Download / Stream: Music promoted by Audio Library. Who is Sean Finnegan?  Read his bio here —— Transcript —— This transcript was auto-generated and only approximates the contents of this episode. Sean Finnegan:Hey there, I'm Sean Finnegan. And you are listening to restart studio podcast that seeks to recover authentic Christianity and live it out today. Tom Huszti: Sean Finnegan, welcome to Unitarian Anabaptist. Sean Finnegan: Thanks for having me. Tom Huszti: So this has been a long time in the waiting. I was interviewed by you about 8 months ago and now you're being interviewed by the Unitarian Anabaptist. What a privilege there is. A lot that you have to say today in the limited time that we're going to do this, you just came back from a trip of Italy and Greece. You finished a 500 year history of the early church. There's just so much interrelated and what I would like to do, as we discussed earlier is to relate these things back to the 1st century faith of our early Christian brethren. So to begin, could you give us a summary of the important highlights that you saw on your trip related to church history? Sean Finnegan: Yeah, we ended up going to a number of touristy spots in Greece like Santorini and Mykonos, but we also hit Athens and we came into the port of Piraeus and then got to the city of Athens and and the first thing that I will note. And anyone who's been to the Mediterranean in August will. We'll know what I'm about to say is. That it's hot. It's a very.SpeakerHot part of the. Sean Finnegan: World. So is the Middle East, so it's it's. It's interesting that, you know, like times I've been to Israel, times have been to Greece or Turkey. It is a very different climate than what I'm used to here in New York or you in Ohio there. Tom Huszti: Sure. Yes, yes, absolutely. Uh. Sean Finnegan: And you know that that. Brings to mind the importance of water. Hmm. And something that really stuck out to me in Israel I. Would have never. Gotten that from reading books, but going to Israel you go to these ancient sites and. These cisterns dug into the ground these huge caverns to store water because it doesn't rain that much water is is still a big deal in the 1st century in Rome in.SpeakerYes. Yeah. Sean Finnegan: Other cities Pompeii also got to visit Pompeii. Tom Huszti: A lot. Sean Finnegan: And they brought. The water in through aqueducts and this is. All part of. Their system of city structure, but the question. Who pays for the aqueducts? Who pays for the bath houses? You know, I got to see some bath houses in Pompeii where you had the the frigidarium, the tepidarium and the calidore. Yum, you know, and this is the really cold water, the tepid water and the hot water. And this is just what people did. These are these are public facilities. This actually ended up having a great deal of prestige. As wealthy people step forward and this happened in the 1st century, but also in the the 2nd century, was really the heyday of this period, where wealthy people would come forward and they would donate money to build these public works and they would build other great structures like theaters. And whatnot. And these would then be the ones who controlled the cities and won political office. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: And so it's a very different kind of world, you know, just like I don't think about water, I don't think. About wealthy people building bath houses or pools, right? It's just we, you know, we pay taxes and then, you know, we argue about the police. It's just a very different world. And that was really driven home to me on the trip, you know, in Athens, you're on the Acropolis and you're seeing the Parthenon and some of the other structures that still remain. Tom Huszti: Yes, yes. Sean Finnegan: It's just like this is an utterly different world, and it's just so helpful to remember that Tom because. We don't do that when we read the Bible, what we do is we just. We have what we. Understand the world to be, and then we encounter the scripture. We read the text and then we think to ourselves. How can I incorporate this new information? I'm reading about the book of acts or one of the church epistles. For example, how do I incorporate that into what? I know about the world. This is an automatic process and the problem is if you don't force yourself to stop and say wait, they lived in a different world where they had different. Different language, different politics, different weather, different everything. Then you can easily misunderstand so much of the New Testament I. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: Think that's a? Lot of what we as pastors do is we're trying to help people understand the scriptures. So the trip was really enlightening in that sense. Also, I'll make another quick point about it is that we did manage to go to the very edge of Mount Vesuvius. Now Mount Vesuvius blew in 79 AD 79, and that's what killed all the people in Pompeii and Herculaneum. And so they say it's still an active volcano. But you can take a.SpeakerOK. Sean Finnegan: Bus all the way up to the top and then you hike until. Tom Huszti: What's the way? Sean Finnegan: You get to the very crater. You can look down into the crater and it's just incredible. It's just dirt and some like grass and stuff. There's no like lava. Or anything cool but. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: It's just a weird experience to like, stand on the edge of an active volcano and think, wow. This thing blew. And you could kind of see why ancient people were like, ohh, the gods are angry, right? Because. Like who would it? Tom Huszti: Uh-huh. Well, yeah. Sean Finnegan: There's no one in living memory of seeing this thing blow the last time, and it's just such a otherworldly power, sure. Tom Huszti: How far is Pompeii from Rome? Sean Finnegan: I think about two hours. If I had to guess something like that, so we approached. Tom Huszti: Ohh that far OK. Sean Finnegan: Pompeii, from Naples, Naples, is on the. Coast came at it from the West to get to Pompeii in the east, and then you get to Vesuvius and. At the top. Of the Zeus, you can see everything you can see just miles and miles in different cities and. It's really incredible. Tom Huszti: My, my. So how far did the lava have to travel to make it to Pompeii from? Sean Finnegan: Well, wasn't it? They didn't get buried in lava, actually. Yeah, you, you. You would, I guess you would expect that, but it was, it was a I think it was a toxic gas. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: That swept through it well. Initially it was uh. Was launching projectiles and ash and rock straight up, and then that fell because of the wind onto the city and so that, you know, imagine like a hail storm, but with stones and bigger ones and smaller ones. But then a gas came from the mountain and. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: I believe that's what happened and it killed the people, but then it continued to rain. Ash, I think they said like 20 feet of ash, something crazy. Tom Huszti: Oh wow. OK.Speaker 5And it just. Sean Finnegan: Settled on the city and people just didn't have a reason to go there for anything or I'm. I'm not really sure why, but it just laid there. Century after century, and I'm not sure exactly when. Maybe in the 1700s eighteen, 100 something something around there, they're just like, hey, I think we found. A city over here, you know? Archaeology. Just finally gets started. And what happened, Tom, is they would come against these air pockets. So they're digging through. And they hit like a pocket of air and they're. Like this is so weird. What is this? And someone got the bright idea of. Of squeezing into it some plaster, yeah. Tom Huszti: plaster plaster. OK OK. Sean Finnegan: Yeah, if you have you seen these images? Tom Huszti: Yeah, I have. Yeah. That's what I was wondering. OK. Sean Finnegan: Yeah. Yeah. And so then they let it dry and harden, and then they chip around it and then they see the exact shape of a human being. Sometimes even with fine detail. Of like facial expressions and stuff. That's kind of become their customers when they hit an air cavity. They just do that and there there are lots of these casts of human beings in various positions. And what's crazy about them is it's. Just like a. Plaster, but inside the plaster are that person. 'S actual bones. Tom Huszti: Yeah. I was gonna ask. OK. I was gonna ask, you know, something that you mentioned to me back. Louisville, KY, was the length of time that bones. Yeah. And we were talking about resurrection and literal resurrection. And you mentioned that bones last a long time. That's something I really was impressed by something that Rabbi Tovia singer was speaking out against being cremated because. Because the bones are supposed to be the material that used for in part anyhow to reconstitute us as human beings in the resurrection. So that view is very Jewish in origin, as you well know. Sean Finnegan: Yeah, I tend to agree with Rabbi Tovia singer on that. I'm not a fan of cremation. I'm not going to say it's going to defeat God's ability to resurrect somebody, feel like that's a pretty extreme position to take. But I have learned a lot and I know you've been to Israel and you've stood on the Mount of olives and you see. Well, the the tombs there that are, I don't know why they're buried above ground, but they're all these stone rectangles and or stone boxes, really rectangular shaped boxes and inside are the bones. And it's like, well, what's the deal with this? Why are they so worried about bones or not worried but concerned about bones and focused and. Tom Huszti: Yes, yes. Sean Finnegan: About caring for the bones and you know they have these ossuaries where you know they they found Caiaphas ossuary. Tom Huszti: I know I saw it when I was in Israel. Sean Finnegan: Incredible ornate. Tom Huszti: In the Israel, yeah. In the Israel hit Natural History Museum of all places, back in 2004, I was shocked. Sean Finnegan: Isn't it beautiful? Tom Huszti: Well, well, it's a beautiful ossuary, but what was most shocking was the was the plaque beside it. The plaque, the plaque beside it, said this was the high priest in the days of Jesus that was responsible for his crucifixion. And I thought to see that advertised in the Israel. Sean Finnegan: Oh, what did it say? Tom Huszti: Natural History Museum was just shocking because it's a recognition that this thing happened and this is the man responsible to it. I was, yeah, that was the last thing I saw in the museum on my way out because we were we had a very short time frame and it was at the entrance of the. Museum so we saw it as we exited. Very cool. Fascinating, yes. Sean Finnegan: Very cool. And you see that stuff? You just say to yourself. These are real. These are true stories. This is history, you know. You see. The the litho what is that Lithos Stratos? You know that that street that is beneath Jerusalem, that was discovered where this is where Jesus was beaten or. He was. It's the layer that goes back to the 1st century. It's kind of underneath the city of Jerusalem. You see these things you say to yourself like I like. I've stood there, Tom. Like, I know for sure. Now. Vesuvius is a real volcano. I looked into the. Tom Huszti: Yes, yes. Crater. Yes, yes. Yeah, right, right.SpeakerIt's like not that. Sean Finnegan: I ever really doubted it, but like when you do it and you stand there and you see and you, you know, you see the cast and the horror on the faces of the. Tom Huszti: Right. Sean Finnegan: People in Pompeii, you're like. OK, this is not a story, this is history. Tom Huszti: Yeah, no. Sean Finnegan: And it's very powerful. But back to your point about resurrection and bones. What really started me on this, this is going to be a really random source, is a Freakonomics podcast episode. They're talking about cremating animals. The guy was saying, when it comes to cremating animals, they it was, they were trying to do an investigation. The big question they had was. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: Do they actually give you the ashes for your animal? This is like a pet crematorium. Or are they just like scooping random ashes? And you know what? What's really going on here? Right. And they were talking it. So they got into the subject of cremation and bones. And they're like, well, you know, what really happens to the crematorium is they burn, you know, the human or the animal or whatever. And then the bones are there. Tom Huszti: Right. Sean Finnegan: Their bones are not burnable, they just, they're just there. Tom Huszti: Right, right, right. Sean Finnegan: So what they do is they grind them. Tom Huszti: That's what Tovia said, too. Sean Finnegan: And after they grind them down, that's the ashes that you get. They're actually ground bones. Tom Huszti: Ohh, is that right? Sean Finnegan: That they return to you. At least, that's what this podcast episode was saying. It was talking about animals, but like, it also talked about humans, whatever. And it and it made me think to myself, like, wait a second. I always just assumed the bones desiccated. I assumed that they disintegrated over. Tom Huszti: OK. Ohh you did. OK. Sean Finnegan: Time and then it it it kind of informed my thinking about, you know, the James Ossuary and the Caiaphas archery and some of these other ossuary findings, like some of the more sensationalized ones said we think we found Jesus and all this, which has been pretty much not accepted by scholarship but anyhow.Speaker 5The idea of. Sean Finnegan: Bones lasting for centuries and centuries was just like common sense to ancient people because they didn't have this separation. Like we have from our dead. Like we don't, we don't. Know but like they would go. Sean Finnegan:A year later. Sean Finnegan: Back to the tomb and they would pick up the bones and put them in a. Little bone box. Space is limited and you want to fit as many ancestors, descendants, relatives in the same cave or tomb as possible. But you're not looking to, like, mix all the bones together. So yeah, it just kind of made sense to get a box the width of the skull and the length of a femur, and to use that to, you know, organize people and just scratch on the side, the person's name. And so I think this all goes back to whether we're talking about the amount of olives. Tom Huszti: Yeah, yeah. Tom Huszti: Oh, OK. Sean Finnegan: To this day in Jerusalem, or we're talking about the austrias in the 1st century this or or Tovia Singer's preferences. This all goes back to the same thing which is this. Really strong belief in resurrection and so burying your dead in a way that preserves the bones or cares for the bones is is in a sense, I think a an act of faith that the Jewish people have always had. Again, I'm not saying that cremation is a sin or that it's going to damn somebody to, you know, eternal judgment or, you know, that's not where I'm going here, but I think. Tom Huszti: Yes. No. Sean Finnegan: We should ask the question, is this really this is really fit as Christians like I know it's less expensive. OK, but like is it? Is that always the right course of action? Just cause something's less expensive. So I I think burial. Traditional burial it can be an act of faith because you're saying I'm going to Mark Toome. I'm going to rise. Out of this to. Him so. Tom Huszti: Let's get back to your your trip details. I'm trying to picture this, the framework of well picture this setting that the acts of the apostles was written in. Is Athens set on a hill? Sean Finnegan: Well, the Acropolis certainly is. Tom Huszti: The acropolises OK. Sean Finnegan: Yeah. So, yeah, there there are definitely hills there. The propolis is a very high point in the center of Athens and it is kind of steep. I don't know what you call like a plateau that just. Rises out of nowhere. In the old days, that would be the spot where you would retreat to if Athens were invaded, because it can be held much longer. Tom Huszti: Apostle Paul preached in that place. Sean Finnegan: Well, I think he preached. On Mars. So which is right next to it. So it's yeah, it's right. Right nearby. Tom Huszti: Can you imagine the possible Paul in that setting? Sean Finnegan: Yeah. Well, I mean, the interesting thing about the apostle Paul at the Areopagus or Mars Hill is that he is looking at all these statues. And I when I was in Athens, I got to go to the museum. Tom Huszti: Can you picture him there? Carry out this OK? Sean Finnegan: The Acropolis Museum, which is. Walk. We got there and we went inside and you see all these statues? These are all these statues that they found? Of course. The Acropolis had actual temples to gods on it and that wouldn't have been unusual. There would be temples and statues of gods all throughout the city. And that's not weird for Athens. All Greco-roman cities had statues to gods, shrines, little other ways of worshipping their gods, you know, depending on what gods we're talking about, they're all a little different. You know, there's Paul. He's not really from the West, you know, for and for his perspective as as somebody from. Horses and cilicia. Athens is the. West, we say Athens is east, but for him that's. Tom Huszti: OK, he's from us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sean Finnegan: West and you know, so for Paul, he would have seen plenty of this throughout his travels and stuff. But for whatever reason, his heart was just so troubled in Athens, he saw that people just in the city just given to this in Act 17, he finds this altar to the unknown God and he's like. All right, well, here's. Here's someplace where I can hook on a gospel presentation. Really good speaking. But it's interesting too, going back to our former conversation about burial and resurrection, when it comes to the part where Paul says that God has furnished proof by raising that Jesus is the Messiah by raising him from the dead. The Athenians had no trouble hearing that Jesus would be the Messiah. I don't think that was like a really understood category to them. They wouldn't have a hang up about that as him being a king or whatever. But when he says. He has given proof by raising him from the dead. Suddenly they're just like this is ridiculous. Everybody knows you don't want your body back again. This is stupid. I'm out of here. And like the Greeks, the Greeks, they're standard approach to the afterlife. Tom Huszti: Ohh yeah yeah. Sean Finnegan:That's right. Sean Finnegan: Was to get rid of the body. It was not to keep the body or to get the body back. Restored and renewed. And so this. This was always a big issue between Jews and Christians. Agree on. Over against the the Greco-roman, whether the philosophers or just like the folk religion of like going down to Hades and you know all the stuff they, you know, they had stories about all that. Tom Huszti: Have you been to Cesarea Philippi in Israel? Sean Finnegan: Yeah, it's like they call it banya or. Tom Huszti: Something banyas. Yes, banyas. And actually, I guess you know why it's called banyas. Sean Finnegan: Well, there was a. Shrine to the God pan there. Tom Huszti: Right pan, right. So the original name was panyas. But the Arabs have a hard time pronouncing the sound, so they change it to bond. Yes, believe it or not. But yes, yes, yes. So now. Sean Finnegan: Well, that makes sense. Thank you. Tom Huszti: You learn something. From me for a change, right? OK. Sean Finnegan: There it is. There it is. Yeah. I have been there. It's a beautiful spot. And you know, again, talking about the heat and the the arid climate of Israel to have a place with a beautiful water supply. Tom Huszti: Oh my. Sean Finnegan: Like sensory flip by where you say, OK, this is it. This is going to be a big spot. This is going to be a place where people are going to want to go and build things and live because there's plenty of water. Tom Huszti: Yes. Yeah. Tom Huszti: Yeah, it's beautiful there, isn't it? Maybe the most beautiful place in Israel. In my my view, as far as the physicality of it, that's arguable, but. Sean Finnegan: I don't know. I loved Dengeki. I thought it was. Tom Huszti: And Betty was beautiful too. Yes. Also water the the shrine. So do you remember what the shrine of Pan looked like? And and with the details about what was happening there. Sean Finnegan: Yeah, yeah. No, no, remind me. Tom Huszti: OK, there's a a graven image of pan on the the wall of the the side of Mount Hermon, the base of Mount Hermon there. And there is a cave right next to it. And there would would have been an altar for a member, correct? There would have been an altar in front of The Cave, and they were doing sacrifices to the God pan, and they were throwing the sacrificed beast into The Cave and the Jordan River begins flowing from that area. So. There was some kind of a relationship to throwing the sacrifice into The Cave and and whether or not the blood came out at the Jordan River that cave. On the side of the mountain, Mount Hermon was supposed to be the gateway to the underworld. Sean Finnegan: It is certainly the case that the Greeks and the Jews looked very differently at the dead. The Jewish mindset was at the dead are resting and they had the term show all for that. The sort of realm of the dead where all the dead are they're they're awaiting, they're asleep, they use that language. Lot, even in the the Christian New Testament. Tons of references, a lot of our translations, just like get rid of it and they say died or. Something like that. But that it actually says fall asleep or fell asleep. Ohh which you know the a Greek person wouldn't say that they would say no, they're in a different realm. And they're in the underworld of Hades, and Hades is not just a realm. It's also the name of a God who's in charge of all of those shades or departed souls. And you know, so, like, these are very different views. You know what I mean? And it's sad to say, but Christianity has more often than not. Agree with the pagans over against the early Christian. Of view, which is a shame, right? Tom Huszti: Unfortunate indeed. Yes, it is in the the first conversation I had with Tovia Singer, we hit upon so many touch points that we agree upon resurrection life in the age to come. The term Messiah is something that we can talk freely about. There's so many things from my Christian view that actually are terms that you can talk to Jewish people in this present day about, especially those who are inclined to study the Old Testament. And that's a conversation that most nominal Orthodox kind of Christians cannot have with Jewish people. The the rule seems to be that Jews have to leave Judaism in order to come over to Christianity. But strangely enough, we received Christianity from the Jews. And so the context that you're you're seeing here is something that is is very interesting. In restoring Christianity to its 1st century foundations, which is your your big desire so. Sean Finnegan: Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's what, that's what I'm all about, is trying to clear away the accretions of the Middle Ages and the post Christian. Developments and getting back to that original earlier version of Apostolic Christianity, you know what? What would the church have thought about this in the 1st century rather than in the 2nd and following centuries? The the subsequent centuries? And, you know, I'm not against technology. Renovation. But I am against changing our beliefs from what the New Testament says and that has happened a lot and it happens very slowly. And I've had a a a desire to understand that development. For a long. Time and did my masters on the subject and was really surprised to see that, you know, people are just not asking this question. Like I'm I'm a member. Of the even to this day of the the Boston area patristic society. OK. And so I get emails and, you know, invitations to attend their meetings, which I attended when I lived out there. And, you know, they're held either at Harvard or at Brown University or sometimes at Providence College as well as three schools have good patristic good, early church history programs. And you know so. They they issue these papers a couple. Of times a year. I don't know like 3 or. Four to five times a year and you know you have lint chocolates and a little wine and a little cheese. And you know, you sit around and, you know, just kind of listen in with these, you know, somebody presents on some aspects some facet of. Early church history. Three, I've been a member of this for I don't know a decade they have never done. A doctrine not once. Not once. There's no interest at all in doctrinal development or this mindset that says, hey, let's get back to living out our faith the way they lived out there is, as far as how we treat people or how we think about the government or whatever practical area. There's zero interest in that. In the the more liberal side of the fence and then on the conservative side of the fence, you have the Catholics that really dominate. And not that there aren't liberal Catholics. I'm sure there's plenty of them too. But I'm talking about the more conservative minded ones and they're always just trying to show that what the church teaches now is really what Christians have always believed. So it's apologetic. It's not OK, let's see what happened. It's more like, alright, well, this person like, for example Ignatius of Antioch, there's going to be an amazing presentation on this. Tom Huszti: Come on. Sean Finnegan: At the Unitarian Christian Alliance Conference next month, Nathan Massey has done some cutting edge research on Ignatius of Antioch. But anyhow, people, Catholic scholars in particular love Ignatius, and they'll go to Ignatius and they say, well, see, Ignatius calls Jesus God. Therefore, the Trinity is true as we, you know, 20 centuries later. Teach it it. It's it's all true because Ignatius said Jesus is God, and there's just more problems with that than you can shake a stick at, which you know I won't get into unless you're interested. But like my my point is. There's very few scholars who are honestly going to the sources of ancient Christians. Whatever books have survived right, and saying what were they saying? And and just taking them on their own words, their own terms, giving them the credit that they knew what they. Were talking about even. If it disagrees with what the? First later said was the right way to think, right? So let me let me just give. You one example. So for example. Justin Martyr, Justin Martyr doesn't fit with anybody, right? I mean, he's just idiosyncratic. He has his own way of thinking and talking. About things, he will even call Jesus, the second God sometimes. And you know he doesn't. Think at all that. Jesus, even in his preincarnate state, was equal. With God the. Father ever, you know, at the same time he's he's sort of like very much like in mesh with the Jews and and like very much talking to the Jews and at. The same time, incredibly rude. And it, you know, by what I would say, it's totally inappropriate. You know, some of the ways he he talks to in in one of his books, the book against Trifle. So yeah. So anyhow, Justin Moorer, you know, a church historian will come along and say, Justin, Monta was just. Tom Huszti: Ohh trifle.Speaker 5You know, he was reaching in the dark for the doctrine of the Trinity. He just didn't quite have the language yet to express it, and it's like. Sean Finnegan: No, he wasn't. He had a he had a mature developed view of who he thought Jesus was. And it's just different than yours, man. Just just. Allow him to be him. Tom Huszti: He might have squeeze everybody into the. Sean Finnegan:You know. Tom Huszti: Same mold, huh?SpeakerHe's not. Sean Finnegan: Hinting at anything he thinks he knows what he's talking about. You're not. Tom Huszti: Right. Tom Huszti: He wore the philosopher's robe, didn't he? Sean Finnegan: He did, and he had a he had a a little meeting spot in Rome above a, you know, above a shop, you know, he had a little apartment or whatever, and he'd he'd meet with people and he'd teach him what he thought was the definitive understanding of the Christian religion, just because nobody else later on agrees with him doesn't mean he was just like. Undeveloped or something, you know, he he believes what he believed, and it's just different and that's OK. And what I see when I look at Justin or Irenaeus or, you know, a lot of these guys is I see development. And when I see development, I think to myself, let's rollback the tape and see the trajectory overtime. Yeah. What is the vector? Where is this heading? So if I see you know a couple of points on a line that go in One Direction, I could say OK, I make a measurement here, make a measurement here, connect those dots and trace it backwards. What's there in the? 1st century and that's that's what I love to do. That's what I want to know. That's my my research, my investigation to find. What's the earliest beliefs and practices and that I'm crazy enough to think we can live that out today? Tom Huszti: Yeah, you are a strange bird, but I agree with you I. Guess I am too so. Sean Finnegan: Well, and The thing is we both came to this from very different milieus, different backgrounds, denominations and so forth. But we both recognize that it makes logical sense that if the church has gotten off track. Then you know the best way to do it is to reform back to the, you know, whatever we can recover of the original version of Christian. Tom Huszti: Right. Sean Finnegan: And you know, that's. Yeah, it makes sense to me. A lot of people don't. They don't believe in Restorationism. They they say, oh, that's you can't go back there. It's impossible and it's like. Tom Huszti: That's so true. Sean Finnegan: Well, well, why let? Tom Huszti: Me. Share you with you my thought on this. So the the 1st century church was waiting for the return of Jesus and it didn't happen in their age, but. We who claim to desire the return of Jesus need to be postured as they were. Like I'm I'm just. Wondering you know. Like if Christianity gets far enough away from their origins, it's an awful lot to ask Jesus to return when we've strayed so far from. What our forefathers believed so that the church that I was put out from is called the Apostolic Christian Church Nazarene. And the term Nazarene is a a term that is very, very honorable, I would say. But when you think in terms of the early church, the term Nazarene meant Jewish believers in Messiah. And I still call myself a Nazarene, even though my community has, for the by and large, has disfellowship. Hit me. I'd like to to trace my origins back to the the Nazarenes my my Jewish Brethren, believers in Jesus, and this is something that you touched upon in your. Your church history. You think you could fill us in a little bit about the views of different Jewish Christians, Abbey Knights and Nazarenes and. Any others that would kind of fit that category maybe give us a little summary. Sean Finnegan: Yeah, to do work on the Ebionites or the Nazarenes is to read late reports. By their enemies. I don't know of a single document that survives other. Than I would. Argue that, dedicate, I would say that dedicat is a Nazarene document. Tom Huszti: Oh wow. Sean Finnegan: It reads that way to me. It has a low Christology. It's very Jewish, you know, it's very Christian, you know. And it it just seems to kind of fit that that mindset. So I would argue that the dedicate would be a Nazarene document. Now these these terms, Nazarene, it's actually in the New Testament. The sect of the Nazarenes. Where was that? They said. Tom Huszti: Right, Paul Paul, was it? Yes, they did. That's correct. Yeah. Yes. Sean Finnegan: That about Paul, right? Yeah. So that's old school. Right. But what we can kind of gather is from these late reports and when I say late, I'm talking like from the year 375, we get this heresy hunter named Epiphanius of Salamis and he writes a book called The Panarion. You know, so this is this is riding 300 years after all the action and the excitement has already happened, right? Where's where's the action? Where's the parting of the ways? As James Dunn's famous book called it? Well, it's really in that post 70AD pre. Justin. So like between like 70 AD when the temple. Tom Huszti: Yeah, yeah. Sean Finnegan: Got destroyed and the Romans conquered Jerusalem to the time of Justin Mortar where, like he begins in, you know, maybe like 135 was the 2nd revolution. Right. So you have the the bar Copa revolt. Tom Huszti: Right. Sean Finnegan: Actually, some people might call it a third revolution because there was another one in between the two, but whatever. It wasn't in. Jerusalem. But you know, in that period there, what is that like? Probably like 60-70 years something happened and there was a a splitting away and Gentile. Tom Huszti: Ohh there was OK Ohh. Sean Finnegan: Christians and Jewish Christians. Stops influencing each other. And it's a really murky period of time. Scholars have all kinds of theories from there was never a parting of the ways. What are you? Talking about to it. Tom Huszti: Uh-huh. Well. Sean Finnegan: It happened because of this or because of that. But let's just put it this way, the the the official Christian line on it has always been since. The time of Eusebius. That the followers of Jesus when they. Saw the Roman legions coming. Abandoned the city of Jerusalem. And if that's true and they, he says they went to power, they went to this other area. If that's true, then the native Jewish people who stayed and fought and died. And then many of them also survived. Would not very much like the Jewish Christians because. They didn't stay, they didn't like. Tom Huszti: So you're talking for 70, you're talking about from 70 AD that the Christians would have left. Sean Finnegan: Yeah. Yeah. So, like, after the city is conquered by the Romans, things kind of settle down politically. I mean, I guess the last holdouts are at Masada up until what, like 7370? Tom Huszti: Right. Sean Finnegan: 4 but like. Then that OK, this period ends, the Romans have reasserted their dominance. But you know a lot of Jewish people survive and and. And they're not looking at the Jewish Christians positively, they're looking at them negatively. And we have this Birkat hominem. Yes. Are you familiar with that? It says for the apostates, let there be no hope and uproot the Kingdom of arrogance speedily. And in our days, may the Nazarenes and the sectarians perish, as in a moment let them be blotted out of the book of life. Tom Huszti: I am. Sean Finnegan: And and so forth. So it's like OK by the time of Justin, he makes mention of this and he says you. Know why? Why? You guys cursing us in your synagogues, right? So like Justin knows about it, so. It's got to be before 160 and it's. Probably after the month. Tom Huszti: So let me ask you this, would that curse? Be specific to Jewish believers in Messiah Jesus. She will. Or would it? That was specifically for them because they were thought they were thought to be created. Sean Finnegan: Well, they they would be the ones to go to the synagogue. So this is something. That would be spoken. Publicly in the synagogue, along with the other blessings and. Tom Huszti: OK. Ah. So that would discourage them from attending synagogue. Sean Finnegan: It would expose them as well because they wouldn't be able to recite that. Tom Huszti: Oh, they wouldn't be able to recite it, OK. Sean Finnegan: You can't curse yourself, you know. It's just awkward. Tom Huszti: Yes, so so so.SpeakerYou know, right. Tom Huszti: During the time of the Barkha revolt, the Jewish believers in Yeshua Miss Jesus would not have taken up arms against the Romans and this would have been a further offense against the. Against the revolution, revolutionaries against the Jews. Sean Finnegan: Well, you know. We we see we see rumblings even before in the I don't know if it's the Jewish war or the antiquity of the of the. Jews with Josephus. He talks about how there was a power vacuum just for a moment in Jerusalem and during that power vacuum when the old governor had, I don't know if he died or just had left or whatever happened to him. But the new governor, I think, was Albinus, was on his way then the non Christian. Jewish people were able to gang up on James, and when James was fairly old brother of Jesus and that they were able to more or less lynch him, you know, they just got a mob together and they they were able to to kill. Tom Huszti: A friend. Sean Finnegan: Him. So there was already animosity before the war. War starts in 66, you know it. It did blow up from time to time. We see it in the book of Acts. Right. There's a lot of animosity between the Jewish Christians, the non Christian Jews. OK, so this this continues. But after the war.SpeakerOK. Tom Huszti: Right. Sean Finnegan: It it's it seems like there's not even much real space left for Jewish Christians to even go to a synagogue with this curse that's put there specifically against them. Again, the war is such a massive historical event. The Jewish War of Rome, 66 to 74, where I mean, how many kinds of Judaism. Do we know? About from the 1st century, you have your Sadducees, you have your Essenes, you have the rebellious types. They call the 4th philosophy and Josephus. You have your Pharisees, and then you have the Christian Jews. Tom Huszti: They would be the zealot. Would there be the zealots or the sikari? Sean Finnegan: Yeah, yeah, that would be the 4th philosophy. The Zealots, the sicari, all the revolutionary types. Right. So you have like, five types of Judaism. And so the Christian Jews. Tom Huszti: OK. OK. Sean Finnegan: Five and the Pharisaic Jews survive, but the Sadducees, the Essenes, and the revolutionaries. They're all gone, or completely disempowered. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: After the war, so now you have pharisaic Judaism, which eventually kind of develops into rabbinic Judaism, and you have the Jesus Jews. And they gave birth to the Christian movement, which is kind of like, it's almost like in a sense gone public like a like a corporation offers an IPO. And then, like, the, the company has kind of a life of its own, independent of what the founder, really. Tom Huszti: Yeah. OK.SpeakerHis vision was. Sean Finnegan: And maybe that's a good analogy for it, cause like Christianity goes pretty much Gentile and there it's Jew and Gentile together in the 1st century for sure. But like as we get into the 2nd century. The kinds of literature that survive from Christian pens. It's just like either ignorant of Jewish practices and interpretations of the Old Testament or outright antagonistic, where you get like documents from like the middle of the 2nd century. Like I'm thinking of the Epistle of Barnabas, and some of the other documents in the Apostolic Fathers, where like they're just like you, Jews are crazy because you kept the law. And it's like, how could you ever say that if you're if you're a little more aware of what the, you know, that that was the law that God gave to the Jewish people to keep, why would they be crazy to keep it? Right? So it seems like there's just a parting of the ways. And that's the term James Dunn used for it. And, you know, we just wish so much that we had. We have more information about it. We just kind of get these little bits and pieces. We don't know exactly how it happened. We just know that it happened.SpeakerOh yeah. Tom Huszti: Some hostile witnesses, of all places. Sean Finnegan: So now you've got. These Jewish Christians, Tom and they're kind of isolated in the east, they're not well loved by the Gentile Christians or they don't have access or I don't know, for whatever reason, there's just not a lot of interaction, which is tragic in my opinion. Tom Huszti: Yeah. Yes.SpeakerBut they're also. Sean Finnegan: Alienated from their own Jewish brothers and sisters because they're not allowed in the synagogue and you know, if you're in a little village and there's only one place putting shoes on horses. Or doing some other craft or trade. And they don't want to sell to you. Guess what? You're in trouble, you know, because you're one of the Nazarenes or. One of the Ebionites. Tom Huszti: Sure, sure. Sean Finnegan: So you know these people had a really tough go of it and you know, we hear about them later on and they may have survived pretty well. Outside the Roman Empire, in the east, in the Persian Empire. But we don't know much about that either, so it's really hard to do scholarship on them. There are more questions than answers, but my best guess, OK. And that's really what it is, is it's a guess is that the community of James, the brother of Jesus, they didn't really get on board. With what Paul? And Gentile Christianity was doing they got on board to a certain degree and and this we see this conflict in the book of. Acts 15 and then later. Tom Huszti: Yeah, 15. Sean Finnegan: On in .2 what happens is.SpeakerThey say all. Sean Finnegan: Right. Well, you you can have. Gentiles and they don't need to keep the law. Fine, but we Jews are going to keep the law. Still, I don't think Paul got on board with that. Paul would say Jews don't need to keep the law either. Obviously they can. Anybody can keep the law. Who wants to? But Jewish Christians, I should say I should be clear. I'm not talking about just Jews in general. I'm saying Jews who believe in Jesus because of a covenantal understanding expressed later. Tom Huszti: Yes, yes. Sean Finnegan: In the Book of Hebrews, whoever wrote Hebrews that it is clear that Jewish Christians don't need to keep the law. James and his group of Jewish Christians disagree with. That viewpoint, they say no. This is the covenant. We're Jewish Christians. We're going to continue to keep the law. So I think this James Community is what left during the war and survived north and east of Jerusalem. And that then this community had a doctrinal division where some of them. Accepted the Gospel of Matthew, which possibly was in Hebrew or Aramaic. You know some language that the people could readily read. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: There are lots of hints of that in the patristic literature. People talk about it quite a bit. They don't talk about any other writing. From the new. Testament, all the other books in the New Testament. They never mentioned as being in Hebrew, just Matthew. Tom Huszti: Wow, just Matthew cross. Sean Finnegan: It's the only one. Yeah. So why would you? Put it in Hebrew, whether it was written in Hebrew originally or translated into Hebrew. Why would why? Because you have Jewish people. Reading it. You read the Gospel of Matthew. What does it begin with? A genealogy? Who loves genealogies? The Greeks? No, they don't care about genealogies. The Jews love genealogies. So Matthew begins by making a convincing argument that this Jesus of Nazareth has a claim. And. Could possibly be the Messiah because of his ancestry. That's how it starts. So you've got this community and in. The Gospel of Matthew as well as. Luke, you have. The virgin birth. You have the virgin conception and you know this idea that in in some way Jesus is the son of God.Speaker 5Some of the. Sean Finnegan: Jewish Christians in this community don't believe that. And others do, and that is, and again, this is a reconstruction based on hostile sources like Epiphanius, and you siberius, and there are plenty of later ones too. Like Jerome mentions this stuff and it, and and it's even possible that these Jewish Christians survive. Arrived and they there was some interaction with them. It wasn't just all hearsay. OK, but it's possible for us to know today how reliable these reports are. But so you have the James, Jewish Christians. They go away from Jerusalem and they settle in north and east of of Jerusalem. And they have this difference. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: Among them the ones who? Believe in the virgin birth. Are Nazarenes the ones that do not? Are Ebionites both of them believe that Jesus is a human being? Tom Huszti: Right. Sean Finnegan: Whom God anointed as a Messiah. They both believe in crucifixion. Both believe in resurrection. Both believe in Ascension. Both believe in the coming Kingdom. So the question is, you know whether he is biologically. Whatever that means, you know, like, if there was this miracle to get him started or if he was the son of Joseph. OK, so that's that seems to be the disagreement there between the Nazarenes and the Ebionites. And here's here's just one more thing to complicate it, make it worse is some Christians will call both groups of unites. Tom Huszti: Yeah, that's a mistake. Sean Finnegan: And they're saying, well, some of you guys believe this and some even nice believe. That it's like. Tom Huszti: Yes, right. Well, it seems to me the very, very important doctrines they agreed upon. And I know I noticed in the Apostle Paul's writing, he never mentions the virgin birth, he does emphasize. The authority that Jesus received through the resurrection, most notably in Romans chapter one, that's where. Sean Finnegan: Yeah. I mean, I think the closest pull comes is Galatians 4 four, where it says when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his son born of a woman born under the law. Sort of like the closest. To it you. Can interpret that a number of different ways. Tom Huszti: So it's fascinating to understand that we've actually lost connection to a large extent to the original source of our our gospel message. And I suppose that makes that makes your challenge of restoring 1st century Christianity even a bit. Your task you're trying to recreate these things based on what you know and based on hostile witness accounts. Sean Finnegan: Here's the good news. We still have the Bible. We have the New Testament. You know, we can read it, we can see. And it's not like the New Testament is hiding or covering over any controversy like the The Paul. James, things is is is plain as day in Galatians like pull, yes, pull lays it out, you know, and I and. I'm going with Paul on. This I'm going to. I'm going to disagree with James. I think he was a great. And but I think he just didn't have the full understanding of how Jesus, through his actions, how he affected our relationship with God and and this whole understanding of covenant. So I'm going to go with Paul on that. What happened among Pauline Christianity is. A development that slowly moved away from the New Testament read from a Jewish perspective because I think Pauline Christianity basically got swamped by Gentiles. Tom Huszti: Yeah, I think so. Tom Huszti: Too and I. Sean Finnegan: Think the leaders. Of Pauline Christian. Probably not in his day, but maybe within a generation or two. Became highly educated intellectual gentiles who were financially well off enough to get an education because education costs them money. Otherwise you got a farm or you got to do a craft or a trade, right? So is that is that sort of movement occurred away from? Apostles and their appointed success. More towards these intellectuals. We get Christian doctrine shifting away from what's in the New Testament into these more Greek and Roman ways of thinking. And that's kind of an area where I've been doing a lot of work recently. Trying to understand. Especially on Christology, how would a a Greek or a Roman person? How would they hear the story of Jesus? What would that sound like to them? And so I've done a lot of work on that and I'm going to be presenting that in a month as well at the UCLA conference. Yeah. But that will be out later on YouTube as well. If you don't make. Tom Huszti: Ohh at the OK. But that should be very interesting. Sean Finnegan: It to the conference, you know. Tom Huszti: I bought my ticket already. Ohh, good. Yes. Yes. I'll look forward to that. I guess we probably shouldn't talk too much about it in advance because we have to. We don't want to. Take the the. Thunder out of your presentation. Sean Finnegan: Well, I I just mentioned, I'll just mention one thing, OK. So let's imagine you're a non believer, you're a Pagan. You've worshiped the gods all your life. You've heard stories about Apollo getting banished down to Earth and having to work as a servant. You've heard stories about Zeus coming down impregnating women. You've heard stories about. Tom Huszti: Hercules. Dad. Huh, Hercules. Dad. Sean Finnegan: You've heard stories about Hercules as well, and Asclepius was originally a human who got deified, and he got deified to such a level that he became essentially an Olympian God, that that level of. Elevation and exultation was possible. So you hear all these stories about these gods who come down to become men, or appear as men being made in appearance as a man, right? Like this is this. Is their vocabulary. That's their world. And then you hear lots of stories. Tom Huszti: Yes, yes, right. Sean Finnegan: Humans, who had a beginning normal humans, but were so exceptional that they got to skip Hades and instead go to Olympia or instead go to some heavenly realm like. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: You this is just your.Speaker 5World these are all your stories. Tom Huszti: OK. Uh-huh. Sean Finnegan: Now you're going to hear a story about a miracle worker, Jewish miracle worker. Who was executed came back to life. And now lives in heaven. And is immortalized. You have a category for that. Kind of a being. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: It's called a God. Tom Huszti: Yeah. Yes. Sean Finnegan: Like in our in our language. Today we would say a lower case G God, right? They didn't fuss with capital. A lowercase. You know, like everything's capital pretty much and all the inscriptions we have in the manuscripts from this period, right. So they would just say, oh, that yeah, we. I know, I know. Plenty of other beings that are like that too. Yeah, they're they're called. Gods. And so you're you're trying to say that Jesus is a man and now he's become. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: God. So like you could just imagine a like an evangelism encounter going like that. And if you don't have that Jewish sensibility to say, well, hold on a second.SpeakerThere's only. Sean Finnegan: One God, and that's the supreme God who created everything. You can just see like Christian saying well. Yeah, I guess so. Like in that way of thinking. Yeah, he's a God. So now people. Start calling Jesus God. And now the question becomes well, in what sense has he got? Does he have a beginning before he was a human, you know, and you're just operating in a totally foreign. World View, mindscape than the Jewish mode, which is the Jewish mode, sees Jesus doing miracles and they say how great it is that God has given such authority to men. Tom Huszti: Right. Sean Finnegan: What do they say when they see a miracle in the book of acts, when Paul and Barnabas? Tom Huszti: Right. Sean Finnegan: You know, get that guy filled. Tom Huszti: The gods are come down to us, the gods. Sean Finnegan: Of course, that's what they. Said that's what they believe could happen, right? We really have two different thought worlds that are combining in in weird and innovative ways. And that's just like one step along the path that leads to the doctrine of the Trinity, which doesn't really get fully developed until the late 4th century. Tom Huszti: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Tom Huszti: So Paul is trying to emphasize that Jesus is a human being, a second Adam. So that has a different flavor to it, like you have to. Paula is using the first Adam story to introduce the second Adam. And this is a glorified human being who is residing in heaven until God sends him back. That's a different. Category isn't it? For the Greco Roman mine? Sean Finnegan: Yeah, they don't. They don't. That doesn't. That doesn't make sense to them. You know, it's just that's just weird. That's like resurrection. Like, why do you want your body back? And what did Christianity do with that one? We get rid of it. You go to any funeral like unless it's somebody from my own group of churches, network of churches, or maybe like one or one or two other denominations. Right. Like you go to a funeral. What 99% of the? Funerals you go to they. Say this person is now in heaven and their soul. Whatever you know, they make up all this stuff. You know, it sounds just like the Greco Roman stuff from the ancient times. It doesn't sound. Like the Bible. Tom Huszti: Right, yes. Can you imagine sitting in the audience when Paul was preaching from the Acropolis? Sean Finnegan: Not to me. Tom Huszti: Can you put yourself in the in the shoes of a a Greek sitting in the audience hearing this message for the first time? And you know the setting. What would have impressed you or what you already mentioned this earlier but like if you as an individual were doing this? What would be going through your mind? Given your background and context. Sean Finnegan: Well, I think. There's a lot of misunderstanding going on. And and that's just normal. We shouldn't be upset about that. We should expect that. I think we see the same thing today. In the 21st century, where you try to explain something and somebody just doesn't get it, who's not a Christian, and I think that's what was happening here. And what happened is Paul is is evangelizing people. He's talking to people in the marketplace, his Jewish sensibilities, I think, are offended by seeing a city full of idols. It's just as somebody who was raised with the 10 Commandments, it's offensive. I mean, it's offensive to most Christians. Well, I don't say most, but many Christians today are offended. By seeing idols and statues and seeing people actually worshiping them, Paul is very disturbed by this. He's trying to to help. He's reasoning in the synagogue. And also in the marketplace every day. You've got the Epicureans, you've got the Stoics there, and then they say this is act 1718, he says. He seems to be a preacher of foreign deities. Because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection and see the word resurrection, there is Anastasia. Tom Huszti: OK. It's a Greek. Sean Finnegan: Word it means resurrection. You know, stand up again, but it seems like. And I I think some translations might do it this way, that they're thinking that. Jesus is 1 divinity. And they think that Paul saying that Jesus is divine being, which is interesting, right in light of what I said just a minute ago. And then the other thing they think resurrection is is another divinity. Right. So there's just. Misunderstandings all over the place. They're. Like you know, it seems like he's bringing in some new gods. Let's go here. What these new gods have to say, he's kind of like you. Remember. Back in the old days, kids would collect baseball cards. Or like when my kids were little, it was Pokémon cards. And you know, you trade with each other. This one, it's like gods to the, to the Athenians. You know, they're like, oh, you've got that. Tell me about that. God, I let me tell you. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: The story about this. One you know, so they're. Tom Huszti: Yes, yes. Sean Finnegan: Interested. And they put them up there and they say, OK, what is this new teaching? Tell us what this is all. About and so we know. There's going to be misunderstanding. We know there's going to be confusion, but that's no reason not to get started. And so he does. He starts in a very friendly and flattering way. Tom Huszti: He used their own poets. Their own poetry. Yeah, yeah. Sean Finnegan: He's building the bridge as much as he can to their thought world, but at the same time. He's so disturbed. Buy the idolatry that like he just. He just wants to hit that, you know, like it's just and it's not. It's not out of sense of superiority. I don't think. I think it's a sense of empathy and compassion. And so it just starts in with, like, explaining who God is. And he's like there's a God above everything else that made everything else. And he doesn't need you. He doesn't need you to. To offer animals. And he believed in animal sacrifice. I don't know if he still believed in animal sacrifice or not, but he believed in it. At least most of his life. And still, he's just like, look, he doesn't need. He doesn't need anything. God is radically. What do they say? Ah, say he's not contingent or dependent on us for anything, and that's not. How they thought about their Greek gods. They thought their Greek gods needed to be cared for. They believed that the Greek gods created humans to do the work for them, so they didn't have to do the work all the time, including feeding them these sacrifices that nourish them.SpeakerRight. Tom Huszti: Right, right. Tom Huszti: A hutch. Sean Finnegan: You know it's a. Tom Huszti: Very the gods. They were very dependent. They're their gods, were very dependent. Sean Finnegan: They needed a bunch of slaves to do all the hard work of cultivating the lands, raising the animals, planting the vegetables, do all the things so that they could be properly cared for and fed. And if you didn't do that, then they messed with you. They stopped the rain, or they brought war or whatever, you know. So that's the kind of thing he's coming against here. And he says, look there the the God who made the world and everything in it, Lord of heaven and Earth, does not need temples. This is a radical message. I mean, it's just like. You're in a. City, now that I've been there, like I've literally seen the temples.SpeakerWith my or. Tom Huszti: Not they're still there. They're still there. Tom remnants. Amazing. Sean Finnegan: Wow, there's actually, when I was there was scaffolding all around it. You know, they're always restoring these things because of the weather erosion and what, you know, but. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: You know, massive, massive. Structures unquestionable. You don't go to a Greek ancient Greek city and say God doesn't need tempo. Tom Huszti: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sean Finnegan: You know that they. Would really get their attention, it's. Like, wow, what is this guy saying? Tom Huszti: Yeah, I can imagine. What would it like these temples were full of pillars and the structure would have been probably unprecedented structures. Sean Finnegan: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're looking at structures that are so impressive that if you didn't live in a city. If you live somewhere out in the country, you can't in the city. It would just take your breath away and then going into the temple itself, seeing most cities, temples they have what's called an apps, which is kind of like the back curved area where they had the statue itself and to see, you know, this huge statue. The artistry was magnificent. And you know, I've seen this where I think I saw this in a museum in Ephesus, on site, they have a little Ephesus museum there. And they had the head of Domitian. Which is a Roman. And it looked like a baby head. The proportions were all wrong. You know, just you know how, like, baby heads look. Weird, I don't know really how to describe it like there. May be a little spot. Tom Huszti: Oh yeah, yeah. Compared to the rest. Of the body you mean? Sean Finnegan: No, no, it was just the head. It was just the head and it and it. It looked like a baby head. And I asked my team. I was a part of a class at Boston University. I asked my teacher. I'm like, what's the deal with this? Why does it look like a baby head? And he just kind of laughed a little bit. And he said. Tom Huszti: Or it was just a hat? A hat. OK, OK. Sean Finnegan: Get low. Imagine this being 20 feet up in the air. Change your perspective and look at it again and it was exactly right. If you got. Low and looked at that same head. Of the mission. From that angle that you would see it. From the ground. All the proportions were perfect. Tom Huszti: So it was designed to be looked up to right? Sean Finnegan: So we're looking at people that have the. Artistry of the skill. Well, to to you know to like factor in perspective and angle. You know what I mean? Like that's something I would never think of you.SpeakerOh yeah. Sean Finnegan: Know. Of course I'm. Not a sculptor, but you know. I mean, you come in and you and you're.Speaker 5Confronted by this? Sean Finnegan: Stone object that is beautifully done. You just takes your breath away. For anyone to question it. It would just be like. What are you talking about, man? Everybody believes in this. And then there's a parade where they bring the portable idols through the city, and then they end up out front of the temple and you get a big barbecue and everybody's rejoicing and you know, the Jews and the Christians are just like, we're not going, we're going to stay home free. Tom Huszti: Oh yeah. Tom Huszti: Neat, right? And they're they're. Sean Finnegan: Well, free meat. Tom Huszti: For the pagans, right? Yeah. For the pagans. Right. Right. Yeah. Do you happen to know this story about the Roman general? Was it Pompeii that when he came into Jerusalem? And he was going to go into the holiest of holies, and the priests were. Standing in the way. And he ordered several, several of them killed with a sword. He wanted to see what the God of Israel looked like, and and he entered in the Holy, Holy Holiest of Holies. After these priests gave their life and he found nothing. What a surprise, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, so the Paul is preaching the same unseen God, but he's preaching the Jewish Messiah, who was seen, who was raised from the dead. Exalted into heaven, and whom God made judge over the earth. So this is the Athenians are being told that this Jesus God gave authority to for judgment, and that the world will be judged by him. Sean Finnegan: Yeah, even before that, you know, just talking about how you mentioned that Paul quoted a couple of their poets. You know that in him we move and have our being, we live and move and have our being and the other statement for we indeed are his offspring. You know, there's a lot of depends on how deep you want to go in this town. But like, there's a lot going on. The schools of the philosophers. Tom Huszti: You know, delve into it? Sure. Sure. Please. Sean Finnegan: OK, so so you have the Epicureans. Founded by Epicurus, and then you have the Stoics founded by Zeno, and they are just. Like total opposites? Right. So the the goal of the Epicurean is to to seek pleasure. Tom Huszti: OK. Sean Finnegan: But not in a primitive like spring break frat party way. You know where, like you just go crazy, and then you you're in pain and suffering the next morning. That's amateur hour. For that, you'd be curious. Or maximizing pleasure over the course of your entire life. Tom Huszti: OK. OK. Sean Finnegan: What would maximize my pleasure, and the Epicureans tended to say that either the gods don't exist, or they exist, but they don't care about us. So you don't need to worry about the gods. There's a lot of precursors to modern atheism and agnosticism there, but the Stoics are saying, ohh pleasure is bad and you got to serve the gods. You have civil duty. The Stoics tended to be the ones in charge of the cities, and the Stoics are absolutely convinced pleasure is. Inherently sinful, like any kind of any kind of pursuit of bodily pleasure, is well, I would say, at least, question. Bowl, but probably like if you could really live without food that tastes really good, or beds that are nice and soft, or a woman's touch or a man's touch if you're. A woman, you. Know like that you would be happier, you would live the good life. So the philosophers are all all about Greek philosophers in particular, or all about how do you lead the good life? Then

One thing that might be rather surprising to most people that can be learned by doing a study of the gospels, acts and other literature of the Hebrew Christians -- the Ebionites -- the Christianity that Existed Before Paul -- is that, rather than some imagined Sunday school notion of a fish market in the village of Galilee being operated by the disciples of Jesus, there is significant evidence that the Original Jesus Movement and well-known apostles became vegetarians. And furthermore, this vegetarianism of the disciples and Jesus Movement is fairly widely known and mentioned by the early church fathers. It's not that this information is coming from recently discovered writings dug up in the Middle East. Rather, these are old texts that have been with us since the early days of Christianity but didn't seem all that meaningful and significant to a pro-meat carnistic population. Vegetarians however would indeed be most interested finding this out! (Peace be to you)    "Jacobus [James], the brother of Jesus, lived of seeds and vegetables and did not accept meat or wine." (Saint Augustine)   "The consumption of animal flesh was unknown up until the great flood. But since the great flood, we have had animal flesh stuffed into our mouths. Jesus, the Christ, who appeared when the time was fulfilled, again joined the end to the beginning, so that we are now no longer allowed to eat animal flesh." (pro-vegetarian early church father Hieronymus [St. Jerome] who apparently read the Gospel of the Hebrews and was influenced by Ebionite views)   "Sacrifices were invented by men to be a pretext for eating flesh." (Clement of Alexandria)   "The steam of meat meals darkens the spirit. One can hardly have virtue if one enjoys meat meals and feasts. In the earthly paradise [Eden], no one sacrificed animals, and no one ate meat." (Saint Basil the Great)   In Divine Love (Bhakti), Light, and Sound, At the Feet of the Masters, Radhaswami   James Bean Spiritual Awakening Radio Podcasts Sant Mat Satsang Podcasts Sant Mat Radhasoami A Satsang Without Walls https://www.SpiritualAwakeningRadio.com    

The Nazareth to Nicaea vodcast discusses the historical Jesus, the Christ of Faith, and everything in between. We look at the many texts and traditions, the stories and artifacts, the heroes and heretics of the christological controversies. We cover the debates, the doubts, and the dissenters about all things related to Jesus and the early church. In this episode, Dr. Mike Bird talks to Dr. Jeremiah Coogan and Dr. Michael Kok about "adoptionism" as a (mistaken) category for understanding the early christologies of the early church. Further Reading: Jeremiah Coogan, "Rethinking adoptionism: An argument for dismantling a dubious category," Scottish Journal of Theology 76 (2023): 1-13. Michael Kok, "The utility of adoptionism as a heuristic category: The baptism narrative in the Gospel of the Ebionites as a Test Case," Scottish Journal of Theology 76 (2023): 153-63. Peter Ben-Smith, "The end of early Christian adoptionism? A note on the invention of adoptionism, its sources, and its current demise," International Journal of Philosophy and Theology 76 (2015): 177-99. Michael F. Bird, Jesus the Eternal Son: Answering Adoptionist Christology (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2017). Michael Peppard, The Son of God in the Roman world: divine sonship in its social and political context (Oxford: OUP, 2012). Otherwise keep up with me on: Twitter: @mbird12 Blog: michaelfbird.substack.com #Christology #Jesus #JesusChrist

For additional notes and resources check out Douglas' website.I. THESISJesus was a zealot, advocating violence to overthrow the occupying Romans as well as the corrupt priesthood.For Jesus, the Kingdom of God is very much of this world [144]. John 18:36 has been totally misunderstood [117]. The kingdom is political.Jesus intended that the twelve tribes be reconstituted for a single purpose: war [123].Jesus was a violent man. The God of violence is “the only God that Jesus knew and the sole God he worshipped” [122]. However, later Aslan seems to backtrack: “Nor can Jesus be labeled a violent revolutionary bent on armed rebellion…” [79].Yet Jesus failed to reestablish nation of Israel [19].The church changed the true Jesus into a more heavenly figure with merely otherworldly interests. They “transformed Jesus from a revolutionary zealot to a Romanized demigod, from a man who tried and failed to free the Jews from Roman oppression to a celestial being wholly uninterested in anyearthly matter” [171]. The apostle Paul was the leader of this reinterpretation. “[Paul's] conception of Jesus as Christ would have been shocking and plainly heretical, which is why, around 57 C.E., James and the apostles demand that Paul come to Jerusalem to answer for his deviant teachings” [190]. The early church followed suit, and replaced the zealot Jesus with a heavenly figure [144], putting Paul's letters into the N.T. Today we have the wrong N.T., thanks to Paul's influence [215].Yet the Messiah was to be the Prince of Peace. "He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore" (Isa 2:4). (Joel 3:10 – preparation for war.) "He will judge between many peoples and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore" (Mic 4:3).How would the church have survived through 60 years of disillusionment, given they knew Jesus' mission was a failure?In short, Jesus was a revolutionary zealot. Not just a radical man with an amazingly spiritual message, but a violent encourager of murder, rioting, and violent takeover.II. STRENGTHS & INSIGHTSStyleHis no-nonsense approach (despite the many erroneous claims) leaves no doubt as to where the author stands. I find this preferable to the ambling, highly qualified language of many religious writers.Aslan uses highly florid language, which makes reading him rather enjoyable -- provided the reader recognizes the many rare words he uses.Historical backgroundGood job describing various sects of the Jews and zealots and pseudo-messiahs.Great analysis of the working relationship between Pilate and Caiaphas.Nice explanation of the origins and thinking of the Samaritans.Historical insightPoor farmers of Galilee subjected to indignity of turning over earnings to rapacious priests! [92]Demolishes the Roman Catholic notions of the virginity of Mary and the papacy of Peter [35].Helpful reminder that the Temple served as a bank [7].Unlike other itinerant wonder-workers in the ancient world, Jesus healed gratis [103].The Romans' victory over Israel in the First Jewish War (66-70 AD) wasn't merely over the Jews, but over their god.John the Baptist's popularity perhaps increased through his not relying on his priestly privileges [82]. (John was a Levite, born to Levite parents -- see Luke 1.)Aslan admits that it is more likely the Gnostics borrowed from Christianity when they constructed their esoteric doctrine and myths, rather than the other way around [261].The belief in a dying and rising messiah did not exist in Judaism [165]. (Right--but that doesn't mean the Messiah couldn't die or rise! What about Isa 53?)Things you may want to knowInteresting parallels between Jesus' Transfiguration and Moses' ascent on the mountain with his three companions [131].Cicero: “barbarian superstitions” of monotheism. Tacitus: “while they permit all that we abhor.”Josephus notes 24 sects in and around Jerusalem. And he calls Annas (Ananus) “the great hoarder of money” [198-199].Bible difficultiesCritics keep us on our toes!Two examples: Philip's wife is Salome, not Herodias. A solution? Also, the well-known difficulties surrounding Luke's census of Quirinius [30].III. APPROACHArguments from silenceJohn the Baptist doesn't realize who Jesus is in Mark 1. This means that the story has been jazzed up in the other gospel accounts [87].There is no cliff in Nazareth over which to push Jesus. Aslan is saying that since he does not think there is such a cliff in Nazareth, it didn't exist. But topography can change. Besides, I have seen such a precipice in Nazareth.The nighttime trial of the Sanhedrin was illegal -- therefore it didn't take place. [157]. Yet the Sanhedrin felt urgency in dealing with this situation before Passover.Barabbas couldn't have been released because the custom is “nonsensical” [149]. Yet Pilate negotiates with the crowd over Jesus' possible release. Why would such a custom contradict what we know of Pilate?Speculation“So when Stephen saw the gaggle of hirsute men and ragged women huddled beneath a portico in the Temple's outer court—simple provincials who had sold their possessions and given the proceeds to the poor….—he probably did not pay much attention at first” [164].Paul wasn't asked by the high priest to hunt down Christians… [183] Yet by Paul's own admission (Acts 22:4-5), “I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison, as the high priest and all the Council can themselves testify. I even obtained letters from them to their associates in Damascus, and went there to bring these people as prisoners to Jerusalem to be punished.”Fondness for quoting liberals at far end of theological spectrum.Calling into question uncontroversial points, e.g. that Acts is part 2 of Luke [167].Leading statements: Jesus' brothers named after great heroes of Judaism (implying a radical revolutionary tendency ran in the family) [230].Shock statements that aren't quite true… but are later clarified, once the shock has been felt -- usually a few paragraphs later.E.g. the Romans walking up cliff side of Masada, “shields up, swords drawn” – as Aslan makes clear, he well knows it took many weeks for the Romans to advance up that side of the mountain [57].Or that the meeting between Pilate and Jesus is ludicrous…. A reasonable argument can be made for it having happened. Aslan claims the “trial” before Pilate “beggars the imagination” and is “pure legend” [148]. There was no “trial” before Pilate [241]. Yet the gospels never say there was a trial. Further, while at first Aslan mocks the idea, later on he states that for a potential political prisoner, Pilate might well have made time to see him -- and John Meier makes a compelling case for the position [244]!Assertions without proofJesus ChristJesus could not have understood the "Son of Man" as a divine figure (as in 4 Ezra) [144]. But what about Daniel 7?Mark 9 tells us that Jesus' transfiguration affected only his clothes [251] (which it doesn't) -- therefore his body (unlike Moses' -- Exod 34) wasn't glowing.There are no OT messianic prophecies that say the Messiah will do miracles [248]. Really?! How about Isaiah 42, 60, etc?More than a few biblical scholars have openly labeled Jesus a magician [108-109]. I know of only one (Morton Smith).All the miracle stories of Jesus have been embellished [104].Daniel's Anointed One isn't killed (Dan 9:26), but only cut off [166]. Yet it's not clear whether "cut off" implies death, so there's no room for dogmatism here.Jesus didn't stay in the desert for a time of testing, but in order to spend time learning from John the Baptist [89].Apostles and other leadersMatthew isn't Levi [97]. Yet two names were common (e.g. Simon Peter, John Mark).Jesus recruited from among “the fishing village's disaffected youth” [96]. But why can't Simon and Andrew be the same age as Jesus? (Rob Bell wants them to be teenagers, but he goes too far.)Few if any of the apostles agreed that Paul was a disciple [184-185].Paul never recounts his Damascus Road experience, which is a fabrication of Luke [184]. Yet see Acts 22. The fact that the three accounts (Acts 9, 22, 26) have minor differences suggests Luke wasn't making up the story, nor was he concerned to rewrite it to make it less problematic.None of the apostles spoke Greek [193]. Jesus and his disciples were illiterate peasants [203, 226]. Aslan should read Alan Millard's Reading and Writing in the Time of Jesus.The Jerusalem Christians didn't evangelize – they just blended in [263]. Yet Acts 4, 5, 12!James took no baths [197].The church in Rome fell under authority of the Jerusalem church [203].Some assertions have weak proof, e.g. that Stephen led the independent Hellenistic community [181], and that the Hellenists held that Jesus came not to fulfill the law, but to abolish it (!). Or that the Church of Jerusalem was demolished in 70 AD [150, 212]. James and the Jerusalem Christians stayed in Jerusalem, awaiting coming of the Lord, and so were killed by Titus' army. But that would mean that they ignored Jesus' prophecy [Luke 21:20].IV. TONEMocking, SarcasticStephen's “long and rambling diatribe” [168].Luke is Paul's sycophant [184-185].On 500 soldiers accompanying the prisoner Paul: “This is absurd and can be flatly ignored” [266]. But there's a plot afoot involving 40 men determined to kill Paul. The conspirators are armed, armed disturbances were somewhat common in Palestine, and the Romans know it. What number of soldiers does Aslan think the officer should have dispatched: 40? 100? 150? Might not the number of conspirators have been snowballing? Is this not a case of better safe than sorry?Reactionary comments -- which are frequently overstatements“With the help of his disciples he blocks the entrance to the courtyard, forbidding anyone carrying goods for sale or trade from entering the Temple. Then, as the crowd of vendors, worshippers, priests, and curious onlookers scramble over the scattered detritus, as a stampede of frightened animals, chased by their panicked owners, rushes headlong out of the Temple gates and into the choked streets of Jerusalem, as a corps of Roman guards and heavily armed Temple police blitz through the courtyard looking to arrest whoever is responsible for this mayhem, there stands Jesus, according to the gospels, aloof, seemingly unperturbed, crying out over the din: ‘It is written, “My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations, but you have made it a den of thieves.”'” [74-75]Cleansing of temple caused a “riot” in the Court of the Gentiles [147].Jesus' apostolic band was “armed with swords” [146]. But there were only 2, and Jesus discouraged their use – hence the unanimous pacifism of the early church.The “brief but bloody tussle” although two swords weren't enough [78].“Thus, on a bald hill covered in crosses, beset by moans of agony from hundreds of dying criminals, as a murder of crows circled eagerly over his head waiting for him to breathe his last…” [159]Disunity and strife suppressedThe early Christians were fearful of John the Baptist's continuing influence: “frantic attempt to reduce John's significance” – and the truth that “Jesus very likely began his ministry as just another of his disciples” [89].In Acts Luke “paints a picture of perfect harmony between Paul and the council's members…” [191]Gal 2:11 = “fierce public feud” [266]– yet no evidence Peter lashed out in return, or rejected Paul's correction.Superior attitudeEven in the vocabulary: 98 lucubration; 108 Lugdunum (ancient Lyon)As though this were his own insight: “To the Jews, a crucified Messiah was nothing less than a contradiction in terms. The very fact of his crucifixion annulled his messianic claims” [178]. Credit belongs to Paul more than to Aslan. Or the observation that wisdom is personified in Wisdom of Solomon as a woman (Sophia), in order to better connect with those with a Greek philosophical background [179]. But this is in Proverbs, and is well known to those who read the Bible.“Two decades of scholarly research” [xx] – perhaps absorbed from the ultraliberal institutions where he did his study? (Harvard University, U Cal Santa Barbara, Santa Clara University -- Jesuit)Negative feelingPalpable hostility towards biblical Christians. Aslan admits his anger – “I angrily discarded my faith as if it were a costly forgery….” [xix].Paul's anger at James and the original apostles “seeps like poison through the pages of his later epistles” [207].One wonders if Aslan has projected his own negative emotions onto Paul!V. ERRORSWell over 100, not even counting all the mistakes highlighted in other sections of this podcast!Life of JesusPhil 2:7 doesn't support the incarnation – because Jesus is one of God's first creations, the "firstborn" [189]. But what about Ps 89:27? "And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth."The incarnation is rejected [88], as well as the divinity of Christ. But what about Mal 3, Ezek 34, Ps 110, and many other passages?Jesus was a tekton (builder, carpenter, mason...) only in Mark 6:3 [34]. Aslan has forgotten Matt 13:55.“He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire” suggests arson [89].Aslan assumes "the Kingdom of God is at hand" means that the end of world is near [80] –a common mistake among those unfamiliar with the already/not yet of Christian theology.The Parable of the Sower is mainly anticlerical [101]. Yet the parable is about loving one's neighbor.The Temple in Jesus' time was 500m x 300m – this was the complex, not the temple proper. (To be fair, in John's gospel, however, sometimes the entire Temple Mount complex is referred to as the temple.)Jesus was joking when he told the leper to go show himself to the priest, since the leprosy was gone. Aslan seems to have misunderstood Lev 14 [112].There would have been no need for a large band of soldiers to snatch Jesus -- yet later Aslan admits a sizeable crowd went to Gethsemane to arrest Jesus [153]! He seems to be changing his mind, or rethinking, even as he is writing his book.After confessing he's the Messiah, Jesus then muddies everything by identifying himself with the Son of Man in Daniel (Mark 14:62) [144]. Aslan seems unable to grasp the two sides of the Messiah, Lion and Lamb (Rev 5) -- the same mistake so many of Jesus' Jewish contemporaries made.When the crowd (manipulated by Annas and Caiaphas) is manipulating Pilate – “We have no king but Caesar!” -- Aslan claims they couldn't have said that [152].Pilate is portrayed as a righteous but weak-willed man in the gospels [47]! He is increasingly exonerated in the gospels [151]. He tries to save Jesus because he thinks he may be the Son of God (!) [152]The crucifixion required three iron spikes [159]. Actually, the skeletal evidence of crucified persons indicates the Romans used four nails.Crucified people would hang on the cross for hours [159]. Actually, days were a more common.Mark wasn't interested in Jesus' resurrection [29]. Really? What about Jesus' predictions of his resurrection, several of which Mark records?Our author claims the series: Last Supper—Betrayal—Arrest—Sanhedrin—Herod & Pilate—Cross—Burial—Resurrection is what it is for liturgical reasons [153-154]. But what else could it be if Jesus was betrayed?Re: Luke 24:44-46 – there isn't a single line of scripture on the suffering, death, and resurrection on the third day of the Messiah [177].  But the resurrection is prefigured in Dan 6; Gen 22; Ps 16; Ezek 37 and more clearly identified in Dan 12 and the DSS 4Q521.The apostlesPaul was uninterested in the words of Jesus [187]. Common claim. What about Acts 20:35? 1 Cor 11? Quite a few allusions to Jesus' words?James forces Paul to (hypocritically) back down from his anti-Torah position, taking an oath and joining others in this vow (Acts 21:23)….[195-197, 208-209]. But what about 1 Cor 9:20? "To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law." Besides, Paul has a positive view of the law (read Romans). He argues that the gospel is for the Jew first, then the Gentile (Rom 1:16) – and this is in one of the letters Aslan agrees Paul actually wrote. Further, Paul's custom was to share the gospel with the Jews, through speaking invitations at synagogues… When he wore out his welcome, then he turned to the Gentiles. If he were as anti-Torah as Aslan insinuates, it is doubtful he would ever be invited back for a second lesson!Paul disagrees with James over salvation [206]. They use the same passages to prove opposite things (James 2; Romans 4). But works and faith are two sides of a coin. Aslan's position is based on an old and tired argument. Paul required nothing for salvation but faith in Christ [215]. Aslan claims Rom 10:13 contradicts Matt 7:21 [187].Aslan misses Paul's point in 2 Cor – which he calls "Corinthians" (proofreader lapse?) – when he makes Paul call the Jerusalem apostles "servants of Satan…" [192]. But Paul's opponents valued prestige, comfort, honor; they did not suffer. The "super-apostles" Paul excoriates cannot be the Jerusalem apostles, who it seems were nearly as poor as Paul!Re: Paul's arrest in Jerusalem: He is mistaken for the Egyptian – and this is the only reason he was taken into custody by the Romans [194-195]. But Paul denied being this person, and the text makes it clear that once corrected the commander still decides to refer the case up the ladder of command (Acts 21:39).After his meeting with the Jewish leaders in Acts 28, "Paul vowed from that moment on to preach to none but the gentiles, ‘for they will listen' (Acts 28:26-29)” [196]. Yet the text indicates a mixed reaction -- some Jews were persuaded by Paul. True, in Acts 28:28 Paul says he will focus on the Gentiles, but not only the Gentiles. In fact, this isn't a change of missionary strategy for Paul, since that has been his method all along: first the Jew, then the Gentile...James (presumably unlike Paul, who cared little about earthly matters) truly cares for the poor [272]. What? Gal 2:10! 2 Cor 8-9!Simon Peter “swore he witnessed the resurrection with his own eyes, as did many others among them…" [156]. This is false. There were no eyewitnesses of the resurrection, unless the Roman soldiers were able to see what was happening (which seems unlikely). Many witnessed Jesus after the resurrection, however.Later ChristianityAslan confuses the Circumcision Party (as in Titus 1 and Acts 15) and Jewish Christianity [186].James loses credibility to Paul because of the nascent doctrine of the virginity of Mary (James being Jesus' brother) [202]. An interesting possibility, and there may be some truth in it, but biblical Christians accord equal respect -- and obedience -- to the teaching of both James and Paul.The Ebionite movement continuing to teach the theology of James [272]. Yet biblical scholars note that this movement wasn't really a Christian movement, since they rejected Christ's divinity. In Zealot Aslan seems to believe that James believed in the Second Coming of his brother -- in contradiction to the Ebionites.Judaean Christians shared with none but their fellow Jews. Love thy neighbor means one's fellow Jew [121]. But what about Luke 23:34, Luke 10:25-37? Matthew 5:38-48?Ancient languagesGreek errors: Matt 11:12 – the kingdom “operates by force” [251]. In Acts 15, Aslan has krino mean “I decree” rather than "It is my judgment" [270]. Overstated! He spells basileus (king) as "Baselius" [234].Hebrew: He denies that in Isa 7:14 'almah is virgin. Yet the point is that that was how the ancient Jews understood it, as evidenced in the LXX, where 'almah is rendered parthenos. Aslan writes Xristos and Yesus ha Xristos – confusing the two languages!Latin: dinarii should be denarii. Aslan claims Pilatus means “skilled with the javelin” [46] -- yet at most this means "armed with a javelin."Other: the kingdom of Medea [139] should be Media.Dating & ChronologyPaul's conversion 37 AD [265] (more like 32 or 33 – which Aslan admits, citing Martin Hengel).Phil about 49 AD [170 AD]. But Paul hadn't even visited Corinth that early. Philippi wasn't a city visited on the First Missionary Journey!1 Cor written 50 AD [175]. This is too early -- See the Gallio Inscription.Peter and Paul were executed 66 AD [196]. He should have given a range of acceptable dates, since the persecution began in 64, and Nero died in 68.All four the gospels were written after 70 AD [75]. But most scholars put Mark c.65 AD. (E.g., the fire and other details of 70 AD are missing in the prophecy of Mark 13.)Paul wrote only 7 letters….. [264]Aslan makes it sounds like Nero sends Vespasian after Masada. (I had to read this section three times to figure out what was going on!) Simple proof-reading would have caught that [60-61].Gospel of Thomas in late 1st or early 2nd century. More likely dates to the late 2nd C.Eusebius' church history Aslan puts in the 3rd C – yet it was probably written in the 320s. All scholars consider his Historia Ecclesiae a 4th-century work.The Sepphoris synagogue(s) date to the 5th and 6th century. Yet Aslan implies that the Byzantine period synagogue was there in the 1st century [38]. Aslan fails to mention that, as he paints a picture of cosmopolitan and wordly Jews.Jesus had a two-year ministry. John's gospel suggests a ministry of 3 or 3.5 years.Old Testament / Judaism errorsAslan mocks the notion that the law was given through angels, as Stephen claims in Acts 7 [168] Later, however, he but admits the idea does come into Judaism (as we see in Gal 3:19).Passover celebration is mainly a political act [144]. While there are political nuances, it was far more than a mere political statement.Aslan uncritically accepts the tradition that when serving in the Holy of Holies the high priest was tied to a rope, in case he died while on duty [9] , without letting the reader know that this is in doubt. The tradition might be true, but it is a mistake to present a possibility as a fact.His view of the Conquest is extreme (utter annihilation) [15]. The O.T. depicts a replacement of the Canaanite population through war, flight, conversion, and intermarriage.David spoke about himself in Ps 16, not the Messiah [166-167]. Yet that doesn't mean the application is wrong. In general, the early Christians used texts to prove Jesus was the Christ that were widely accepted in Judaism.VI. [OUTLANDISH] QUOTESPaul insists he is far superior to all the other apostles [185]. “Simply put, Paul does not consider himself the thirteenth apostle. He thinks he is the first" [186].About the Gospels: “Factual accuracy was irrelevant. What mattered was Christology, not history” [154]. Yet Christianity is a historical religion—a faith anchored in history. If God did not visit our world, if Jesus did not take our sins on the Cross and rise from the dead, then our faith is vain.“Simon Peter was “displaying the reckless confidence of one uninitiated in the scriptures” [166]. Yet I'm not so sure those lacking training would have been as confident as Simon Peter. After all, he was learned in that he had received three years of training from the best teacher on earth -- far better than the typical course of being a disciple to a rabbi.“Paul had no idea who the living Jesus was, nor did he care" [187].“Paul's breezy dismissal of the very foundations of Judaism was as shocking to the leaders of the Jesus movement in Jerusalem as it would have been to Jesus himself” [186].“The story of the zealous Galilean peasant and Jewish nationalist who donned the mantle of messiah and launched a foolhardy rebellion against the corrupt Temple priesthood and the vicious Roman occupation comes to an abrupt end, not with his death on the cross, nor with the empty tomb, but at the first moment one of his followers [like Paul] dares suggest he is God” [169]. But Paul was thoroughly Jewish. The idea of Christ's divinity was not easily digestible -- especially to a Jew.VII. CONCLUSIONThe thesis – that Jesus was a failed revolutionary – is a failed thesis. It is deeply flawed.Aslan makes the same mistake made by those who rejected Jesus as true Messiah in his own day!Aslan admits that once he rejected Christianity he was “confused and spiritually unmoored” [xix]. This shows in his book.One appropriate adjective for the thesis / book: tendentious.Zealot received many accolades—I notice that none are from biblical scholars.Should people read this book?Although I cannot recommend the book as a source for solid information, there are some interesting parts.Further, so much is skewed that many Christians will be put off by Zealot. They will feel belittled.However, teachers, preachers, and other church leaders should know their Bibles well enough to be able to refute these claims, to give truth and confidence to those who may be rattled by teachers like Aslan. That means someone needs to wade in and devote some time to untangling the critics' arguments.

This is part 14 of the Early Church History class. We've been learning about the controversy over Christ's origins in the last couple of episodes. This battle raged between groups of Christians who agreed that Jesus pre-existed for sixty years. But today we are taking a break from that and looking instead at the early Christians who held to a dynamic monarchian Christology. Specifically, we'll consider two influential bishops: Paul of Samosata and Photinus of Sirmium. Although sometimes mislabeled as adoptionists, these two believed in the virgin birth but did not think Christ existed before then. Although what we know about these two survives in the writings of their enemies, we can reconstruct sketches of their beliefs and influence. Listen to this episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFKAwd6Cqzc&list=PLN9jFDsS3QV2lk3B0I7Pa77hfwKJm1SRI&index=14 —— Links —— See other episodes featuring famous biblical unitarians: Thomas Emlyn, Michael Servetus, Adam Pastor, Claude of Savoy, Armenian Unitarians, Socinian Movement in Poland and Transylvania, British Unitarians More Restitutio resources on Christian history For the postscript discussion about the Constantinian Shift, see Preston Sprinkle's book, Nonviolence (previously called Fight), and his interview with George Kalantzis as well as his book Caesar and the Lamb See other classes here Support Restitutio by donating here Join our Restitutio Facebook Group and follow Sean Finnegan on Twitter @RestitutioSF Leave a voice message via SpeakPipe with questions or comments and we may play them out on the air Intro music: Good Vibes by MBB Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) Free Download / Stream: Music promoted by Audio Library. Who is Sean Finnegan?  Read his bio here —— Notes —— Over the last couple of sessions, we've looked at the shameful battle between egalitarians and subordinationists. Both parties believed Jesus pre-existed but couldn't agree on whether he was eternal and equal with the Father or not. However, at the same time, another stream of Christians fought for another view – a theology they thought was more biblical and less fraught with philosophical conundrums—the dynamic Monarchians. Paul of Samosata's Life (200-275) 260 - Ordained Bishop of Antioch 264 - Synod at Antioch 268 - Synod at Antioch, debate w/ Malchion 272 - Aurelian deposed Paul Robert Lynn Sample: “Paul's particular brand of Christianity had an ecstatic or spontaneous character, with a stress on spiritual power.”[1] Artemon of Rome (fl. 230) Claimed that non-pre-existence dominated throughout the time of Bishop Victor of Rome (d. 199) Artemon taught that though Christ was born of a virgin, he was a “mere man”. Theodotus of Byzantium was Artemon's predecessor. Paul of Samosata's Beliefs Lumped in with Artemon and Ebionites by Eusebius Epiphanius accused Paul of importing Judaism (though not circumcision or Sabbath observance). Paul said the logos was homoousios with the Father. The Son is what the logos became when it was made flesh. Christ did exist prophetically before he was born. Paulinians or Paulianists continued to hold a unitarian faith long after Paul died. Photinus of Sirmium's Life (d. 376) From Ancyra in Galatia 343 - Ordained Bishop of Sirmium 344 - Council at Antioch (Macrostitch Creed) 345 - Milan Council condemned him. 347 – Rome Council condemned him. 351 - After a debate, Constantius deposed him. 351 - Council at Sirmium denounced Photinian doctrine. 361 - Returned to Sirmium as Bishop 364 - Valentinian I deposed him. Photinus' Beliefs Jerome accused him of reviving the Ebionite heresy. Very biblical; quoted 1 Corinthians 15.47; 1 Timothy 2.5; John 8.40 Christ only existed from Mary's time when she conceived by the Holy Spirit. The Son did exist, but only according to foreknowledge or predestination. Photinians persisted in the Roman Empire for another 150 years. Review From 260 - 272, Paul of Samosata was the bishop of Antioch, one of the four most important churches in the world. He was a charismatic preacher whose animated congregation participated with applauding, waving handkerchiefs, shouting, and even jumping. Paul prevented singing the newer hymns to Jesus, probably because they differed from his beliefs. Other bishops challenged him in 264 and tried to depose him in 268. Paul did not leave his church. In 272, Emperor Aurelian took back the region for Rome from Queen Zenobia of Palmyra and deposed Paul. Like Artemon a generation before him and Theodotus before him, Paul taught that Jesus was the Christ, but that he did not exist before his birth, though he agreed that he "existed prophetically." Paul taught that the logos was of the same substance (homoousios) as the Father. Photinus was bishop of Sirmium in the middle of the fourth century until emperors Constantius and Valentinus I deposed him. Like Paul, he believed that the logos was "in the Father" but was not equivalent to the Son, though the Son is what the logos became when it became flesh. Photinus placed a heavy emphasis on scripture and said he had a hundred prooftexts for his Christology. After Photinus died, Photinians persisted in the Roman Empire for another century and a half in small pockets. [1] Robert Lynn Sample, “The Messiah as Prophet: The Christology of Paul of Samosata,” PhD diss., Northwestern University, June 1977, 5.

This is part 6 of the Early Church History class. In the latter half of the second century, two kinds of Christians arose to defend the faith. On the one hand, apologists wrote defenses of Christianity directed at the Roman government. They responded to rumors, arguing that Christians were decent people who should be shown toleration. On the other hand, heresy hunters (or heresiologists) began to combat Christian groups that diverged significantly from apostolic Christianity, such as the Gnostics, Valentinians, and Marcionites. Today we'll briefly overview this fascinating period of Christianity when persuasion not coercion was the means to defeat one's opponents. Listen to this episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43mIuUVqCK0&list=PLN9jFDsS3QV2lk3B0I7Pa77hfwKJm1SRI&index=6 —— Links —— More Restitutio resources on Christian history More classes here Support Restitutio by donating here Join our Restitutio Facebook Group and follow Sean Finnegan on Twitter @RestitutioSF Leave a voice message via SpeakPipe with questions or comments and we may play them out on the air Intro music: Good Vibes by MBB Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) Free Download / Stream: Music promoted by Audio Library. Who is Sean Finnegan?  Read his bio here —— Notes —— Apologists (Defenders) of the 2nd C. - Quadratus (130?)- Aristo of Pella (c. 140?)- Aristides (c. 145)- Miltiades (c. 160-180?)- Justin Martyr (d. 165)- Athenagoras (c. 170-180)- Melito of Sardis (c. 170-180?)- Appolinaris of Hierapolis (170-180)- Tatian (d. 180?)- Theophilus of Antioch (c. 180-185)- Epistle of Diognetus (150-225) Quadratus of Athens (130) - addressed book to Hadrian (r. 117-138)- claimed to know people healed by Jesus Epistle of Diognetus (150-225) - author ideas: Hippolytus, Aristides, Pantaenus- common criticisms are that Christians are incestuous b/c we call each other brother and sister, cannibals b/c we eat body and blood of Jesus, atheists b/c we didn't believe in the gods, politically subversive b/c we didn't honor the emperor by offering incense to his statue- Diog. 5.1-17 provides an excellent example of an effective apologist Justin Martyr (100-165) - Stoic -> Peripatetic -> Pythagorean -> Platonist -> Christian- founded a school in Rome- claimed Greek philosophers accessed truth of the Logos, thus Christianity is not a novel religion- Justin addressed his case to the Roman emperor and his sons and the senate and the Roman people (First Apology 1.1-2)- Dialogue with Trypho employed the idea of heresy as defined by a key belief—resurrection (see chapter 80) Heresy Hunters - Justin (140-160)- Irenaeus (180-199)- Tertullian (200-213)- Hippolytus (200-230)- Eusebius (324)- Epiphanius (374-377)- Theodoret (452-453) Standard Arguments - too complicated- trace beliefs to heresiarch- unnatural interpretation of scripture- can't trace beliefs back to the apostles- perverted truth leads to perverted morals- new generations recycle old heresies Irenaeus of Lyons (130-202)- Argued against Valentinus, Marcus, Ptolemaeus, Saturninus, Basilides, Carpocrates, Cerinthus, Ebionites, Nicolaitans, Cerdo, Marcion, Tatian, the Encratites, Orphites, Sethians, Cainites, and others- Against Heresies (aka. The Refutation and Overthrow of Falsely Called Gnosis) intended to equip church leaders to protect their unsuspecting flock from getting tricked into believing any forms of Gnosticism Review - Apologists focused on defending Christianity against outsiders by writing to the Roman authorities and laying out a case for toleration.- Justin Martyr taught that Christianity had continuity with Greek philosophers who also accessed the Logos.- Heresy hunters (heresiologists) defended Christianity against insiders who had differing beliefs from theirs.- Christians fought heresy by using key beliefs they knew their opponents couldn't affirm and by labelling them.- Justin and Irenaeus emphasized resurrection and an ultimate kingdom on earth to exclude those who held varieties of Gnostic beliefs.

This is part 3 of the Early Church History class. Today we begin to look at the second century. We'll start by considering Jewish Christian movements, including the Nazarenes and the Ebionites. Next we'll shift gears and explore the cultural pressure of asceticism and how it began infiltrating Christianity. We'll briefly survey the influence of Marcion and his followers before sketching out the various christologies of second century. This episode is a hodgepodge of unrelated topics that overlap in the same time period. This will serve as a good introduction before we get into other topics in the second century. Listen to this episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxFkeSR6LGg&list=PLN9jFDsS3QV2lk3B0I7Pa77hfwKJm1SRI&index=3 —— Links —— More Restitutio resources on history More classes here Support Restitutio by donating here Join our Restitutio Facebook Group and follow Sean Finnegan on Twitter @RestitutioSF Leave a voice message via SpeakPipe with questions or comments and we may play them out on the air Intro music: Good Vibes by MBB Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported (CC BY-SA 3.0) Free Download / Stream: Music promoted by Audio Library. Who is Sean Finnegan?  Read his bio here —— Notes —— Outline Jewish Christianity Asceticism Marcion Gnostics Christologies in the 2nd c. Jewish Christianity Patricia Crone: “Originally, the bastion of law-observing Christianity was the Jerusalem church, the undisputed center of Christianity until the first Jewish war with Rome (AD 66–70). When this war broke out, the Jerusalem Christians reportedly fled to Pella (Ar. Fiḥl) in the Decapolis in Transjordan, and though some returned to the devastated city in 70, they were expelled again after the suppression of Bar Kokhba's revolt in 135, when Hadrian forbade Jews to reside in Jerusalem. Thereafter, Jewish Christians were concentrated in the Aleppo region in northern Syria, in the Decapolis around Pella…and in the Dead Sea region, as we know from Epiphanius (d. 403) and Jerome (d. 420). They would seem also to have been present in the Golan, where excavators of an abandoned village have found lintels decorated with a combination of crosses, menorahs, and other mixed Jewish and Christian symbols, probably indicating that the building was a Jewish Christian synagogue. After Epiphanius and Jerome, however, we have no certain evidence for the existence of Jewish Christians in Greek, Latin, or Syriac sources written before the rise of Islam.”[1] For Nazarenes see Epiphanius, Panarion 29.7.1-6; 29.9.2-4 For Ebionites see Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 3.27.1-6 Asceticism ἄσκησις, askesis = exercise, training asceticism is the rigorous pursuit of discipline in avoiding bodily pleasures Examples Acts of Paul and Thecla Proto-Gospel of James Acts of John Marcion of Sinope Lived from 85 to 164 Founded his own churches God of the OT is not the God of the NT Docetism: Jesus only appeared human Canon: list of books in the Bible Gnostics believed in pre-creation myth they were Platonists who accepted his creation account, called Timaeus Valentinus streamlined Gnostic religion and brought Jesus to a more central role followers attended mainstream churches on Sunday, but then studied “deeper truths” during the week Christology in the 2nd Century Dynamic Monarchians (Ebionites, Nazarenes, Didache, 1 Clement, Hermas, Theodotus of Byzantium) Docetists (Marcion, Gnostics, Valentinus) Logos Subordinationists (Psuedo-Barnabas, 2 Clement, Justin, Irenaeus) Modalistic Monarchians (Praxeas) [1] Patricia Crone, “Jewish Christianity and the Qurʾān (Part One)”, Journal of Near Eastern Studies, vol 74, no 2 (October 2015), 226.

Explored today: a vegan poem from the Syrian philosopher Abu al-'Ala' al-Ma'arri; a vegetarian saying of Jesus from an early Aramaic manuscript of the Gospel of Luke; an observation about the vegetarian ethics of John the Baptist and Jesus made by Prof. Bart D. Ehrman in his highly influential book, Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew; a very pro-vegetarian quote from Saint Jerome, translator of the Latin Vulgate Bible no less; also from Saint Basil the Great; Discussion about the Gospel of the Hebrews and Gospel of the Ebionites; The Golden Verses of Pythagoras on why spiritual paths that seek to rise above body-consciousness advocate vegan or vegetarian ethics; The Sattvic Diet 2.0 For the 21st Century: How the Vegetarian Movement is Upgrading to Vegan Including in Sant Mat and Radhasoami; a mystic-poem of Darshan Singh from Love's Last Madness on the upward pull of evolution and compassion that seeks to reduce human and animal suffering in the world; and an amazing ancient Ode from the Ebionite Jewish-Christian Book of Acts (Recognitions of Clement) praising those in India, kindred souls of faith and gnosis: brothers and sisters "in the Indian countries" following the Way of the Saints (Path of the Masters).   In Divine Love, Light, and Sound, Peace Be To You, James Bean Sant Mat Satsang Podcasts Spiritual Awakening Radio Vegan and Vegetarian Section of the Free Sant Mat E-Library Online:  https://SantMatRadhasoami.blogspot.com/2019/01/vegan-and-vegetarian-ahimsa-non_8.html  

In this episode, we explore what little we know of the mysterious group of Jewish Christians known as the Ebionites.Sources/Suggested Reading:Brakke, David (2012). "Gnostics: Myth, Ritual, and Diversity in Early Christianity". Harvard University Press.Chilton, Bruce & Craig A. Evans (ed.) (1998). Studying the historical Jesus: Evaluations of the state of Current Research. Brill.Ehrman, Bart (2005). "Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew". OUP USA.Holmén, Tom & Stanley E. Porter (ed.) (2011). Handbook for the study of the historical Jesus. Volume 1. Brill.Levine, Amy-Jill; Dale C. Allison Jr. & John Dominic Crossan (2006). The Historical Jesus in Context. Princeton University Press.#Ebionites #Jesus #Christianity Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Discover why these Gnostic Gospels and other writings got purged from the Western world during the Fourth Century. Celebrate the sages of Judaism, Neoplatonism and Pythagoreanism that helped to give birth to all of these amazing spiritual movements of antiquity such as the Essenes, Sethians, Mandaeans, Ebionites (mentioned in the Book of Acts, the Hebrew Christians lead by James the Just -- "Christianity before Paul"), Valentinians, Manichaeans, Cathars, and other groups that once represented "cousin" schools of spirituality that have much in common with living paths of today such as Kabbalah, Sufism, and Sant Mat.   Instead of a wafer-thin New Testament at the end of a very long old covenant, how about a huge treasure-trove of New Testament type literature, including poetry, psalms and odes? Some of the twelve surviving codices of the Nag Hammadi or Gnostic Gospels were organized with a curious New Testament-like format of: 1) gospels, followed by, 2) letters or spiritual discourses, and then, 3) books of revelation (heavenly apocalypses). These revelations consist of the visionary or out-of-body encounters by various Saints soul-traveling through several heavenly realms of consciousness. This almost two thousand year old "time capsule", now known as the Nag Hammadi Library, has set in motion a spiritual revolution.   Before the Sufis, in antiquity there were some who were vegetarians, followed a practice of being "initiated into the Mysteries of the Kingdom of the Heavens" by a living teacher, and during their meditation practice repeated several sacred names that correspond to various inner regions. Their goal was to spiritually ascend through several heavenly realms in order to return to the timeless Supreme Being in the highest realm. Some called this Being "The Nameless One". There are references to inner Light and Sound. There are also references to a Kal Niranjan type being, a false god or negative power called "the Demiurge". Several Sant Mat authors have written books about the Gnostics and the parallels between Gnosticism and the Path of the Masters.    One of the Gnostic scriptures called "Pistis Sophia" contains many beautiful hymns and prayers. Though reincarnation is mentioned as a reality, the goal of salvation was to liberate souls from material captivity, reincarnation, the wheel of fate, and go back to God again. Souls were given the ability to mystically travel via the Holy Stream of Light. In Pistis Sophia (the Book of Faith-Wisdom) Christ says, "Seek, all of you, after the Light, so that the power of your soul that is in you may live. Do not cease seeking day or night until you find the mysteries of the Kingdom of Light, which will purify you, make you into pure Light and lead you into the Kingdom of the Light."   In Divine Love, Light and Sound,   James Bean   Sant Mat Satsang Podcasts Spiritual Awakening Radio https://www.SpiritualAwakeningRadio.com      

This is Intended to Be the Most Comprehensive Collection Ever of Vegetarian References Providing Evidence For the Vegetarianism of Yeshua (Jesus), the Apostles, the Jesus Movement (Hebrew Christians, Ebionites,) and Other Expressions of Early Christianity. The Major Segments Covered Include the Following: Evidence That Jesus and The Original Aramaic Christians Were Vegetarians: Dueling Gospel Traditions — Pro-Meat and Pro-Veg; What About Those Pesky ‘Fishes and Loaves'? Textual Variations in Greek Manuscripts; Was John the Baptist Really A Bug-Eater? Christianity Before Paul (The Original Hebrew Christians or Ebionites) and the Essene Connection -- The Essene Branch of Judaism Not Just Kosher But Vegetarian; Thou Shalt Not Kill: The Biblical Basis For Vegetarianism: A Vegetarian Ideal Described In Genesis and Isaiah; Signing Up Paul to the Vegetarian Cause After All; Uncovering a Vegetarian Jesus (Yeshua) at the Beginning of Christianity: Vegetarian Sayings of Jesus; Jesus Stopping Animal Sacrifice in the Temple; The Vegetarian Apostles (Leadership of the Original Jesus Movement) -- Vegetarian Quotes About the Apostles; Church Fathers And Other Later Voices Affirming the Existence of the Earlier Veg Tradition; Inter-Faith Love! An Ebionite Christian author had very nice things to say about those in India who worship One God, follow peaceful customs and laws, and are vegetarian or vegan. The Gnostics Were Vegetarians; The Vegetarian Prayer of Thanksgiving in the Nag Hammadi Library (Gnostic Gospels) and Corpus Hermeticum; An Academic Scholarly Approach: Credible Ancient Texts Only Please; Texts I DO NOT CITE: What About Those Modern-Day Essene Gospels of Peace? What About Those Groups That Call Themselves Essenes: "Neo-Essene" VS. the More Accurate Term: "Ebionite"; Did Jesus Travel to India? Gospel of Isa, another text I AVOID. Real Wisdom from the East: The Spiritual and Ethical Reasons Why Saints Advocate Following a Non-violent Vegetarian or Vegan Diet; Peace Be to You, James Spiritual Awakening Radio https://www.SpiritualAwakeningRadio.com  

A rare glimpse into the origins of Christianity and Gnosticism. Today we explore the history, the scriptures, the mystic teachings and poetry of the root group, the common ancestor, the earlier original spiritual movement in antiquity out of which emerged the Jesus Movement (Ebionites), the Elkasites, and the Mandaean Gnostics. I speak of the Nasoraeans, the followers of John the Baptist. The Nag Hammadi texts may represent the prose of the Gnostics, but it is the Nasoraean Mandaean scriptures that give us the poetry!

Introduction In the fourth century, the Council of Nicea settled the question of the Lord's deity, and consequently became the touchstone that enables us to address various Trinitarian heresies. A Trinitarian heresy has to do with the unity of the Godhead, and the tri-personal nature of God's existence, and all without reference to the creation. What is God like in Himself? In the fifth century, the Council of Chalcedon addressed the relationship of the human and divine in Jesus of Nazareth, a question that arose as a result of the Incarnation. Errors on this question are usually called Christological heresies. The Text “And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven” (Col. 1:18–20). Summary of the Text We have seen that the apostles held two very distinct conceptions of the Lord Jesus. On the one hand, they recognized His full humanity. We saw Him, John says, and we touched Him (1 John 1:1). At the same time, they also speak easily and readily of Christ as a cosmic Lord, as in our text this morning. And moreover they speak of Him as one integrated personality. Our Lord Jesus is the head of the whole body, the church (v. 18), and He is the arche of all creation (v. 18). He is the integration point of all things, which is the word underneath “beginning.” He is the firstborn from among the dead, and this privileged position makes it plain that He is to have the preeminence (v. 18). All the fullness of all things dwells in Him, and this was the pleasure of the Father (v. 19). Everything in this fragmented creation order was shattered and broken, and Christ's mission was to make peace for all of it, reconciling all of it to Himself (v. 20). But this soaring rhetoric comes down to earth with a crash when we see that it is to be accomplished through the “blood of His cross.” This was blood that was shed, remember, because of the collapse of Pontius Pilate in the face of a mob. The Nub This is the heart of what Chalcedon is testifying to. “our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man . . . not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ.” Remember that we are simply stating what Scripture requires us to state, and is not an attempt to “do the math.” This confession is admittedly miraculous, and this means that you won't be able to get your mind fully around it. You can get your mind around the fact that we confess two distinct natures united in one person, without any muddling of them. A Quick Run Down of Some Heresies Heresies often arise as the result of people trying to make all the pieces fit together within the tiny confines of their own minds. Some people have an itch to make it all make sense to them, and the result is tiny (and tinny) dogmas. Ebionism holds that Jesus was the Messiah, but just an ordinary man, with Joseph and Mary as his parents. The Ebionites were Jewish Christians in the early years of the church. People who want to say that “Jesus was a great moral teacher” represent a modern form of this. Docetism holds that Jesus was completely divine, and that His humanity was only an apparition. The word comes from the Greek verb dokein, which means “to seem.” Adoptionism holds that Jesus was fully human, and was “adopted” as the Son of God at a point in time, whether at his baptism or at his resurrection. Apollinarianism taught that the Word (a perfect divine nature) took on a human body in Jesus, replacing his human soul and mind. Thus Jesus was God inside and man outside. Nestorianism is the view that denies the unity of the person of Christ, suggesting that there were two natures, two persons going on, loosely joined. In the interests of fairness, it should be mentioned that there are good arguments suggesting that Nestorius himself was not a Nestorian. Through the Blood of His Cross And so here is our confession, here is our faith. We are Christians, which means that our lives center on the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. If we get Chalcedon wrong, we are corrupting the doctrine of His person. And if we do that, then we empty the cross of its dynamic power. The cross has the ability to fascinate all men, and to draw them to God, precisely because of the identity of the one who died there. Unless Jesus were a man, He could not die. He could not shed His blood for us unless He had blood. Unless Jesus were God, His death would not have the ultimate salvific meaning that it does. And so it is that we acknowledge that Jesus of Nazareth, fully God and fully man, died on the cross for the sins of the world. “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, the just shall live by faith” (Romans 1:16–17)

If the entire bible clearly and repeatedly teaches that there is one supreme God who is over all and that Jesus is his subordinate son, then surely we should find evidence of this idea in the historical writings of Christians after the New Testament period. Within the four broad strands of Christianity in the second Read more about 422 One God 12: Early Church History[…]

In this episode we focus on two primary sects of Christianity that were at opposition to eachother as well as a major obstacle for the Christian Church in Rome. This was a race to create the first New Testament (Source Rec: Bart Ehrman's Lost Christianities) Artwork provided by @jagarts40 on Instagram

In this episode, we ask questions about the Second Jewish War, its "messiah" Bar Koziba, and its rabbi, Akiva.What made the revolt so inevitable?What made it such a milestone in Jewish, including Messianic Jewish, history?Did this war really cause a parting of the ways between Christianity and Judaism?What happened to the Messianic Jews who lived at that time – the Nazarenes, Ebionites, and others?And – were the Messianic Jews really singled out as heretics in the curse on the “minim”?

Today I dedicate this podcast to a vegetarian saying of Jesus found in the Syriac-Aramaic Gospel of Luke. There once existed a Jesus Movement where vegetarianism was the norm, and so the passage found in this old Luke manuscript is very much in harmony with a whole collection of such sayings attributed to Jesus, the Apostles, the brother of Jesus: James the Just, the Ebionites, and some early church fathers. Today, an introduction to "Christianity Before Paul", the vegetarian disciples, their writings, their teachings about becoming an ethical vegetarian.

In this episode we explore the lives and situations of Yeshua's Jewish followers in the period between the two great Jewish Wars, which ended in 70 and 135 CE respectively.  We ask and answer:Where did Jewish disciples of Yeshua live?Did they interact with other Jews? With Gentiles?Did they have communities of their own? And what were these communities like?What distinguished their beliefs and way of life from other Jews and Gentile Christians?What was the reaction of the Jewish and Gentile Christian worlds to them?  This is a critical period in the history of the Nascent Messianic Jewish Movement, and one that is vastly under-reported in both Jewish and Christian histories. You will enjoy quotations from both Jewish and Secular sources of the day, however, which tell us that this Movement was far from insignificant!

We are continuing a series of episodes comparing Jesus to superheroes. This series will tackle wrong ideas about Jesus from church history in chronological order. A superhero will represent each of these ideas. Is Jesus Like Batman We answer this question by answering the following: Who is Batman? What are things that Jesus and Batman somewhat have in common? Is Batman divine or human? Does he have any superpowers? What did the Ebionites believe about Jesus? What do the Socinians believe about Jesus? Why does Jesus have to be fully divine as well as fully human? What are problems with Ebionism/Socinianism? A great human teacher cannot be our substitute (Gal 4:1-5). A human who is merely subject to the law cannot be our substitute (Mat 12:8; 9:6). A human-only Jesus cannot bear the penalty for the sins and capital offenses of many people (Lev 24:19-21; Joh 1:29; 1Pe 2:24; Heb 9:28; 2Co 5:21) What are some verses against Ebionism/Socinianism? Jesus is called "God" (Joh 20:28-29 c.f. Psa 35:23; Psa 45:6 c.f. Psa 145:13 and Heb 1:8) Jesus is ascribed the attributes of God (Col 2:9; Psa 102:24-27 c.f. Heb 1:10-12; Isa 44:6 c.f. Rev 1:17-18) Jesus is worshiped as God (Isa 45:12-23 c.f. Php 2:10; Rev 4:10-11, 5:12-14 c.f. Rev 19:10, 22:8-9) Sources Consulted: "https://www.gotquestions.org/Ebionism.html (What is Ebionism?)" Got Questions Ministries. Dr. Joseph R. Nally, Jr., "https://thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/46662 (What is Ebionism?)" Third Millennium Ministries. "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites (Ebionites)," Wikipedia.org. "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socinianism (Socinianism)," Wikipedia.org. Other Scriptures Referenced: Mathew 22:46 Mark 12:34 Luke 20:40 Matthew 8:20 Luke 9:58 Luke 4:30 John 8:59 John 10:39 ***** Like what you hear? https://www.truthspresso.com/donate (Donate) to Truthspresso and give a shot of support! *****

How did the early church hammer out a shared set of practices and teachings out of the welter of confusion and bitter contestation among Montanists, Docetists, Donatists, Paulines, Gnostics, and Ebionites? Why did it take 300 years just for the church to settle on the "creed" that most of us now understand as the core of the faith? please become a patron! -- www.patreon.com/user?u=5530632 image: earliest known manuscript of the Didache suggested reading: E. Glenn Hinson, "The Early Church" for context: --on composition of the New Testament texts: https://soundcloud.com/historiansplaining/who-wrote-the-bible-new-testament --on the historical Jesus: https://soundcloud.com/historiansplaining/the-historical-jesus

Today we consult with not only Matthew 3:4 and Mark 1:6 with their references to "locusts and honey", but also explore the world of early Christian writings as well as scholarly texts. Some who know Greek and are affiliated with Eastern Orthodox Christianity believe that the mention of "locusts" in the New Testament actually refers to locust beans, also known as carob beans. Some describe "Saint John's bread" or "manna bread" as being made of locust bean flour, also known as carob flour, turned into a kind of Middle-eastern flat bread. "In ancient texts the references to 'honey' in antiquity can refer equally to honey produced by bees, or to any number of other sweet substances, including dates, figs, pods, or sap/gum from carob or other trees." (John the Baptist’s Wild Honey and Honey in Antiquity, by James A. Kelhoffer) There is a ‘vegetarian’ depiction of John’s diet in the Syriac Life and Martyrdom of John the Baptist supplying us with some context and it points to the sap in plants as being the natural sweet substance or "honey". The Life and Martyrdom of John the Baptist is attributed to Mark the Evangelist: "So, at once he [John the Baptist] was filled with the Holy Spirit, and he traveled into the wilderness. He was brought up in the wilderness, eating tips of plants and the sap in the plants." The Slavonic edition of the Book of Josephus actually contains a saying attributed to John the Baptist: "I am pure; [for] the Spirit of God has led me on, and [I live on] cane and roots and tree-food." Josephus also describes the desert or wilderness diet of John the Baptist. We also consult with, The Life of John the Baptist by Sarapion; The Gospel of the Ebionites, another name for the Jesus Movement. We learn of their cousins in the John the Baptist sect (Nasoraeans); also about Epiphanius. And we examine the historic record and scholarly analysis of Bart Ehrman; Robert Eisenman; James Kelhoffer; Keith Akers, James Tabor; E.S. Drower; and G.R.S. Mead. We conclude with a reading from the vegetarian Prayer of Thanksgiving from the Hermetica, as well as the parallel version about this agape love feast or communal meal found in the Nag Hammadi Library. 

Service from Congregation HaShalom Adonai. An interactive, Biblical Jewish educational program for Ebionites with emphasis on personal sharing and open discussion on Torah. Available 24/7. Join us for our weekly activities by visiting our BAND room: https://band.us/n/a8a831P1T8w81 Learn more about Congregation HaShalom Adonai by going to our Web site: http://ebionitesinsyracuse.blogspot.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/insightonthewordradio/message

Parasha: Korach (B'midbar/Numbers 16:1-18:32) An interactive, Biblical Jewish educational program for Ebionites with emphasis on personal sharing and open discussion on Torah. Available 24/7. Join us for our weekly activities by visiting our BAND room: https://band.us/n/a8a831P1T8w81 Learn more about Congregation HaShalom Adonai by going to our Web site: http://ebionitesinsyracuse.blogspot.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/insightonthewordradio/message

The Vegetarianism of the Original Jesus Movement (Christian Vegetarianism), Jesus's Vegan Brother James (Who Became His Spiritual Successor), Former Fisherman Peter, the Other Apostles, Syriac-Aramaic Clementine Literature, and the Vegetarian "Yoke of the Lord" Mentioned in the The Didache (The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations) Yeshua said, "Come to me, for my yoke is easy and my mastery gentle, and you will find rest for yourselves." (Gospel of Thomas, Saying 90) One of the "peaceable kingdom" principles of the Jesus Movement leading to spiritual rest included a non-violent, compassionate vegetarian diet. 

In the first reading (post published Sept 13, 2020) Dr. Ehrman gives answer to three NT trivia questions he asked his undergraduate students on day one of class. In the second reading (post published Sept 13, 2013) Dr Ehrman shares what we know about the Gospel of the Ebionites. Join the blog at https://ehrmanblog.org/ and read up to 6 new posts each week and every post in the archives. Your entire minimal cost of membership goes to charity. https://ehrmanblog.org/gospel-questions-and-problems/ https://ehrmanblog.org/ebionites-gospel-members/

The Clementine scriptures are surviving Jewish-Christian writings from antiquity that represent the teachings of the Ebionites, a movement founded by Christ, and eventually lead by James the Just and his spiritual successors during the first few centuries AD. I was expecting this group to be very legalistic and tribal, believing that only they have access to the true God and spiritual Truth, but the reality turned out to be rather surprising! In Recognitions of Clement, Book 9, Chapter 20, "Brahmans", an Ebionite author has very nice things to say about their brothers and sisters in India who worship the One God, follow peaceful customs and laws, and are vegetarian or vegan. Ebionite One Love. Clearly he sees parallels between his own religion and those like-minded devotees and disciples residing “in the Indian countries.” (India was divided into many separate states or kingdoms 2,000 years ago.) It's one of the most amazing passages I know of in the extra-canonical apocryphal scriptures, as it is a rare example of one religion (Ebionite Christianity) recognizing “Truth” in another religion from elsewhere (Hinduism in India). Imagine that! A rare inter-faith moment in human history. And I just know the Ebionites would have really loved Kabir and the Sants of India that emerged during the medieval period. So I also share some key teachings of the Sant tradition, the Way of the Saints (Sant Mat), the Path of the Masters, very much in agreement with the Ebionites: 1) belief in, and meditation upon, the One God, 2) opposition to the worship of idols (all forms of idolatry), 3) opposition to ritual animal sacrifice in various religious temples, and 4) strictly adhering to a vegetarian (or even vegan) diet as part of their peaceful (ahimsa) ethical foundation for living.  

When describing the story from the gospels about Jesus Feeding the Five Thousand, the Miraculous Feeding of the Multitude, the early church father Irenaeus, writing between 180 and 188 AD, doesn't mention anything about fish, only bread! The historian Eusebius, Arnobius, and some other early Christian writings also never mention "fishes with the loaves", only the loaves. Today, we examine the case of the missing fish, variations between different manuscripts of the New Testament, including the example of a vegetarian saying of Jesus present in the Old Syriac-Aramaic Evangelion Da-Mepharreshe Gospels (Curetonian manuscript) but nowhere to be found in the Greek. This is another installment in a series of podcasts documenting the vegetarianism of the original Jesus Movement (Ebionites, Nasoreans, Grandchildren of the Essenes, Hebrew Christians, The Apostles/Disciples, Christianity-Before-Paul).

Those Judaizing heretics the Ebionites are the focus today. Reminder, a more thorough write up, including historical and Scriptural references are available as a blog posting at our website, practicaltheologyministries.com

An exploration of vegetarian sayings of Jesus (yes, there are some!), from the Syriac Aramaic manuscript of the Gospel of Luke, other sayings from the New Testament along with sayings from the Ebionite Gospels.

James Bean returned to the Virtual Alexandria to discuss ancient vegetarianism: Gnostics, Christians, Jews & even Pagans. This included the Essenes, Pythagoreans, Therapeutae, Ebionites, and more. Was Jesus a vegetarian? Was Paul or John the Baptist against vegetarians? We also covered medieval Gnostics like the Manichaeans & Cathars. This is a partial show for nonmembers. For the second half of the interview, please become a member or patron at Patreon

In the first reading (post published Sept 1, 2019) Dr. Ehrman answer a blog member's question about reconstructing the text of the NT from the quotes of the Church Fathers. In the second reading (post published Sept 01, 2012) Dr Ehrman addresses a variant in the Gospel of the Ebionites. Join the blog at https://ehrmanblog.org/ and read up to 6 new posts each week and every post in the archives. Your entire minimal cost of membership goes to charity. https://ehrmanblog.org/can-we-reconstruct-the-entire-new-testament-from-quotations-of-the-church-fathers/ https://ehrmanblog.org/locusts-pancakes-members/

The Adoptionist belief teaches that Jesus was human and simply adopted by God to be his Son. This belief grew from the influence of the Ebionites and throughout church history under different leaders and teachers. What grew in Europe in the first millennia came to America as the new nation was launching with some prominent forefathers and Americans holding to the teaching. The teaching still exists today and unwittingly, some actually adhere to it, believing they are truly holding to the biblical text.

In a recent (or, recent to me) episode, you said the Reformation was, to some extent, based on how one shouldn't read secret meanings into the Bible.  Can you elaborate on this?    Can you shed any light on Passover terminology in Hebrew and Greek?: Is there any historical reason to think that John the Baptist was beheaded on Herods birthday? It seems to "foreshadowed" by Pharoah beheading the cupbearer on his birthday. I know that the gospels often say events in the OT "foreshadow" events in Jesus life.  What can we know or surmise about the Jerusalem Church led by James? What does Paul mean by “Lord?” He often writes “the Lord Jesus Christ.” What is this word “Lord” in Greek and its meaning? What if Q was none other than one of the Jewish Christian gospels (The Gospel of the Hebrews, The Gospel of the Ebionites, The Gospel of the Twelve, or The Gospel of the Nazarenes)? Why do the lists of 10b Commandments in Exodus 20 and 34 differ? Theme music provided by: Peter Benjamin - composer for media www.peterbenjaminmusic.org peterbenjaminmusic@gmail.com

Podcast 3.7: Jewish Followers of Jesus, part 1 – Ebionites (Download).

Nature is horrible, and civilization allows animals such as a cows, pigs, sheep, and humans to live in comfort and safety.  Why, then, the persistent mytheme of humans being the defective additions to an otherwise perfect world? Jesus never baptized anyone with water so how did this become a staple of the Christian church, especially the Baptists? What do you make of the fact that there is zero evidence that the Arab conquerors of the 7th century were Muslims? I personally am convinced that they were most likely a Syriac Christian sect, a sect that had a lot in common with the Ebionites.  Do you have any suggestions on books that you could recommend on Martin Luther or the Lutherans in general? Is it fair to say that "Christianity defined itself in the context of Neo Platonism neo-platonic philosophy as a religion of truth"? Might Jesusâ?? cursing the fig tree reflect the folk custom f cursing/rebuking a barren tree in order to produce fruit the following season? Can you shed some light on the dating of the book of Daniel and what we can determine whether these are predictions of the future or reflections on the past? Is there any textual evidence anywhere that Matthew's birth narrative with the Oriental Kings paying respect to infant Jesus a subtle attempt at recognizing the Alexandrian Buddhist influence on new Christianity?   Could Christianity survive in some form if it were proved there was no historical Jesus? Theme music provided by: Peter Benjamin - composer for media www.peterbenjaminmusic.org peterbenjaminmusic@gmail.com

DUSTIN' OFF THE DEGREE - The Mandeans A few weeks ago I mentioned a religious group that is effectively the church of John the Baptist. I mistakenly referred to them as the Ebionites, which were a Jewish Christian group that rejected Paul and viewed James the brother of Jesus and preferred James the brother of Jesus. They were also big fans of the John the Baptist, but not the group I was thinking about. The Ebionites disappeared by around 300 CE, but they'll come up again when we talk about Jews for Jesus. It's been nearly 11 years since I dropped out of the seminary so it's not surprising that much of my knowledge of obscure religious oddities has faded along with my knowledge of classical Greek. The group I was thinking of is the Mandeans. They started sometime in the first three centuries of the common era, but the historical record of them is pretty scant with many of the best early sources coming from Islamic writers and the Hadith. They are generally thought to be the Sabians that are counted by Muslims as a People of the Book. They are a Semitic Gnostic group. What's odd here is that most of what we know of Gnosticism is that it was a Hellenistic Greek phenomena drawing very heavily on neo-Platonic dualism, however that same kind of dualism and secret knowledge, the Greek gnosis or Aramaic manda. According to the Mandeans they are the continuation of the religion of Noah and they revere Adam, Abel, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Shem, Aram, and John the Baptist, especially John the Baptist, as their prophets. According to one 13th century Dominican Catholic observers they detest Abraham because of circumcision. They believe in marriage, procreation, and family and don't practice celibacy or asceticism, this is in stark contrast with standard Gnosticism, but is likely part of why they have outlasted the Gnostics by more than a millennia and a half. Like the Gnostic they believe the world is a prison and governed by the planetary archons. Their dualism also takes an interesting form, while Gnostics typically had the spiritual pure opposite the evil material, Mandeans have a cosmic father and mother, light and dark, right and left. They believe in a supreme formless Entity who delegated the creation of spiritual, etheric, and material worlds and beings to creators. The cosmos is the creation of the Archetypal Man which was created so that it could be populated by beings created in his form. Souls come from the Entity and are in exile and captives on this world, but eventually they will return to the Entity. Planets and stars influence our lives and are also a place where souls are detained. There are also savior spirits that will assist souls on the journey to the worlds of light. Their sacraments are centered on purification, with washing, as a core part of it, hence at least in part their reverence of John the Baptist. The goal of the sacraments is to purify the soul so that they can be freed of the material world and reborn in the spiritual world. They reject the Torah and the Christian Bible, but have many scriptures where they have recorded things that have learned from the manda or gnosis, the secret knowledge of the spirit world. While this may all seem quite strange, it's actually quite logical. The Gnostics believe that Yahweh is an evil Archon and most believe that Jesus isn't much better. They tended to view mainstream Christians as slaves of the evil material world and that they needed freed from. Latching on to John the Baptist also makes since considering that with the poor hygiene and rampant disease of the era, any focus on bathing and cleanliness would result in improved health. To accept John, while rejecting Jesus is also logical if you view Jesus and the Christians as usurpers who tried to steal and corrupt John's message. Historically their population has generally been centered around modern day Iraq and Iran. The Iranian population probably didn't fare well during the Isla...

You've got questions? We've got answers. Today, Brian Chilton answers some of your questions submitted to Bellator Christi. We will discuss the following topics: Is Christianity exclusive? Who were the Ebionites and the Nazarenes? Did Paul have irreconcilable differences with Peter and James? Can we believe the teachings of Paul or was he a liar? […]

You said that some of the early patristic writers believed that John the Baptist was a heretic and even the spiritual mentor of Simon Magus and Dositheus. Might this version imply the canonical gospels had not yet been written? Why do you think Matt changes Mark to make the fig tree wither away immediately rather than over the course of a day?  If Mark is a Paulinist Gospel how can the baptism be adoptionistic which seems to be a doctrine popular among Jewish Christians like the Ebionites?  I wondered if the baptism might not better be seen as the point where the man Jesus is possessed w/ the spirit (the Christ) which some Gnostics believed, what Bart Ehrman calls separationism.  What say ye? What does the Geek think is going on with Jacob and Laban's flock in Genesis 30? Why would the gospel writers in the second century have to embellish the Jerusalem siege and/or the Bar Kochba revolt and not have Jesus describe in detail what will happen just like how Josephus described it since the evidence is strong that the gospel writers have Josephus in front of them while writing the four gospels. Also, why would the writer of Luke dismiss the death of James? Is there any real proof for Burton Mackâ??s hypotheses re Q?

But there were false prophets - There were not only holy men of God among the Jews, who prophesied by Divine inspiration, but there were also false prophets, whose prophecies were from their own imagination, and perverted many.As there shall be false teachers among you - At a very early period of the Christian Church many heresies sprung up; but the chief were those of the Ebionites, Cerinthians, Nicolaitans, Menandrians, and Gnostics, of whom many strange things have been spoken by the primitive fathers, and of whose opinions it is difficult to form any satisfactory view. They were, no doubt, bad enough, and their opponents in general have doubtless made them worse. By what name those were called of whom the apostle here speaks, we cannot tell. They were probably some sort of apostate Jews, or those called the Nicolaitans. See the preface.

Irenaeus understands heresy. What were the big heresies he dealt with? There were three representative heretical groups: the Ebionites, Gnostics (Valentinian) and Marcion. How does this all fit? Explore the themes of the relationship of Creation, God, and humankind, the relationship of the God of the Old Testament and God of the New Testament, and the relationship of Jesus, God, and humankind. Explore the views of textual authority (“scripture”). The Ebionites’ main tenants were that a “lesser god” made the world and Jesus was born naturally by Joseph and Mary; Christ and Jesus are distinct; and Christ is impassible. The Ebionites only use the gospel of Matthew. Consider the Gnostics (gnosis (γνῶσις) means knowledge). Does their view of creation make sense? What kind of Gnosticism are we talking about? A big part of it was that of Valentinus. Tertullian states that Valentinus, “. . .marked out a path for himself with the subtlety of a serpent.” For Gnostics, salvation is achieved through “gnosis”. Explore Cosmogony. What does pleroma mean? It means “fullness” and it is the world of the gods. Within the pleroma is Sophia (wisdom), one of the Aeons. In John 1:1-3 we read, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.” They saw this as a description of the pleroma and believed Sophia fell from the pleroma and was restored into the kenoma. The Gnostics believed Jesus as Redeemer restored Sophia. She left behind the demiurge, a lesser god abandoned by Sophia. They believed the demiurge created the earth and man. His residual spark got passed on to man. They held that matter is bad but some have the potential for redemption and at some point will be invited back into the pleroma. People could be redeemed by a secret knowledge. Christ Aeon saves people in the higher God. They believe either that Jesus was the fleshly man on whom the Christ Aeon descended or Jesus was the actual Christ Aeon who only appeared to be in the flesh. Dualistic- resurrection does not include the flesh. Consider that there is a three-fold division of mankind: Pneumatics, Psychics, and Somatics.

Continue to explore Canon in the 2nd Century. Consider Tatian’s Diatessaron, which means “through the four”. His text harmonized the four gospels but Tatian was eventually branded a heretic for his Gnostic views and theology. Explore Canon considerations of the 2nd Century. The Church had three options: choose just one such as Marcion or the Ebionites; choose a synthetic Gospel for example, Tatian’s; or allow an array of Gospels. Consider the Muratorian Fragment, which is the earliest list of authoritative books that we have. It contains the Gospel of Luke and assumes the Gospel of Mark, John, some of the Pauline writings including 1 and 2 Corinthians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Galatians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, and Romans. It also contains Philemon, Titus, 1 and 2 Timothy, Jude and 1 and 2 John, Wisdom of Solomon, Revelation of John, and Apocalypse of Peter. It rejects the books of Valentinus, Marcion, Milteides, Basilides, and the Montanists. This proves that prior to Athanasius, a lot of work was being done to understanding which texts are authoritative. Textual authority leads to Christian identity. Explore Irenaeus on the Gospels. Irenaeus is adamant that there is only one Gospel. He is the first to say there are four Gospels that tell a singular Gospel message – no more and no less. Irenaeus also preserved the earliest ordering of the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Others ordered them as Mathew, John, Luke, and Mark due to the preference of the eyewitness accounts. Irenaeus’ Bible contained the Old Testament, which included commonly accepted books along with some additions to Daniel, Baruch, 2 Esdras, 1 Enoch. For the New Testament, Irenaeus would have had a collection of books he saw as “accepted” including the four Gospels, Acts, 13 Epistles of Paul, Hebrews, 1 Peter, 1 John, and Revelation. It possibly may have included the Shepherd of Hermas as well.

Consider Irenaeus’ statement in Against Heresies concerning the rule of truth. There are key themes that will be covered on the topic of heresies. One is the relationship of Creation, God, and Humankind. Another theme is the relationship of the God of the Old Testament and God of the New Testament. There is also the theme of the relationship of Jesus, God, and Humankind. Lastly, there is the theme on the view of textual authority (“scripture”). Explore who the Ebionites were. Irenaeus stated, “Cerinthus, again, a man who was educated in the wisdom of the Egyptians, taught that the world was not made by the primary God, but by a certain Power far separated from him, and at a distance from that Principality who is supreme over the universe, and ignorant of him who is above all. He represented Jesus as having not been born of a virgin, but as being the son of Joseph and Mary according to the ordinary course of human generation, while he nevertheless was more righteous, prudent, and wise than other men. Moreover, after his baptism, Christ descended upon him in the form of a dove from the Supreme Ruler, and that then he proclaimed the unknown Father, and performed miracles. But at last Christ departed from Jesus, and that then Jesus suffered and rose again, while Christ remained impassible, inasmuch as he was a spiritual being. Those who are called the Ebionites Those who are called Ebionites agree that the world was made by God; but their opinions with respect to the Lord are similar to those of Cerinthus and Carpocrates. They use the Gospel according to Matthew only, and repudiate the Apostle Paul, maintaining that he was an apostate from the law. As to the prophetical writings, they endeavour to expound them in a somewhat singular manner: they practise circumcision, persevere in the observance of those customs which are enjoined by the law, and are so Judaic in their style of life, that they even adore Jerusalem as if it were the house of God.” The Ebionites believed the world was made by a “lesser God,” Christ is impassible, and Christ and Jesus are distinct. They only accepted and used the Gospel of Matthew – it fit into their Judaistic tendencies.

How substantial is the evidence for "James the Just"? We are told when Elkanah and Samuel are introduced that Elkanah (and therefore Samuel) are from Ephraim. Later in Chronicles, he has become a Levite. Did the author of Chronicles invent his Levite pedigree to co-opt him for the Levites? Is it reasonable to think Chronicles is preserving an earlier version of the Daniel character than we have now in the Book of Daniel? Why were the Genesis Patriarchs and Matriarchs so urgent that their children not marry Hittites? What do you think of Ken Schei's thesis that the Ebionites were the original Christians, but Paul succeeded in destroying their religion and usurping authority to lead the followers of Jesus? Did Jesus, as portrayed in the Gospels, think the Kingdom of God was imminent? Was he wrong about this? If He thought the end of the world was at hand, why would he bother preaching liberation for the poor? Aren't many if not all the miracle stories about Jesus besting some older or contemporary God? What do you make of the story of a first-century "copy" of Mark found in an Egyptian papyrus burial mask?

At the heart of heresies is often our desire to remain in control, the belief that we are good enough without God. Just like the Ebionites, we are tempted to view Jesus as a great teacher, but not our God, and not our redeemer. We have two choices, just like the broad and narrow road we looked at last week. Either we have to abandon our self-will or abandon our hope. The two seem mutually exclusive; when we trust ourselves we lose all hope.

We finally wind down the first century with the last days of the Apostle John. The next generation of Christians must take up the challenge of confronting heresy, schism, and persecution after the Apostles are all gone. Music “Sons of Constantinople” by Tyler Cunningham, licensed under Pond5. HistoryoftheEarlyChurch.wordpress.com HistoryoftheEarlyChurch@gmail.com Facebook.com/EarlyChurchPodcast

Episode Two Contents: Gay marriage The Ebionites (cont.) The number '666' The Religious Right's views on homosexuality Bush's tax cut proposals Ann Coulter Al Gore's new movie "An Inconvenient Truth"

Contents: The Iraq War; Turning the 'Other Cheek'; Controversy Among Military Clergy; Who Were the Ebionites, and What Did They Say About the Life and Teachings of Jesus (Part One); "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance

The differing beliefs of liberal and conservative Christians; the history and beliefs of the Ebionites; some quotes about Paul; the 'Q' Document; and two Gospels that predate the Gospels of the New Testament.

This 63rd episode is titled InvestedWe've just concluded a series on medieval monasticism and return to the narrative of the Church during the Middle Ages in Europe.Before we do, let's remember the story of Church History is much bigger than just what happened in Europe. Until recently, church history spent most its time on the Western Church and only touched other places as it related TO the Western narrative. We're trying to broaden our horizons, although it's tough because the source material for the history of the Church beyond the Western realm is much slimmer. It isn't that there isn't any; there's quite a bit; but it's not presented in the popular format that commends a layman's format. And an historical layman is certainly what I am So it's thick wading through most of it.With that said – back to the Church in the European Middle Ages . . .We have several themes and topics to develop. It's going to take a few episodes to do so. The first we'll look at, because it ends up being a recurring problem, is what's called the Investiture Controversy.This was a theological and political dustup that came about as a result of the fusion of Church and State in Feudal Europe. Church officials had both religious and secular roles. Though they weren't part of the official nobility, they did hold positions in the very strict social structure of the Feudal system. Serfs didn't just work the lands of the nobility. Many of them worked church lands and holdings. So, many bishops and abbots not only oversaw ecclesiastical duties, they were secular rulers. You can imagine how these clerics were torn in their loyalty between the Pope far off in Rome, and the much closer secular feudal lord; whether a duke, earl, count, or baron, to say nothing of the emerging kings of Europe.When the Roman Empire dissolved in the West, the role and responsibility of civil government often fell to church officials. Most people wanted them to step in. So when feudalism took hold, it wasn't a difficult transition for these religious leaders to be invested with the duties of secular rule.Because bishops, abbots and other church officials had secular as well as spiritual authority, many of Europe's nobility began to take it upon themselves to appoint those bishops and abbots when vacancies occurred. It's not difficult to see why they'd want to, instead of waiting on Rome to make the selection. Local rulers wanted someone running things amiable to their aims. Also, with the inheritance rules the way they were, with everything going to the firstborn son, a lucrative and influential career as a bishop was a plum job for all those second and third sons.  This investing of church offices by secular rulers was called Lay Investiture, because it was done by the laity, rather than by ordained clergy. And as you can imagine, it was NOT something Popes were happy about.Though the details are different today, imagine you're a church member for thirty years. One day your pastor says he's retiring. You expect your denomination or elders to pick a new pastor. How surprised would you be to find out the local mayor picked your pastor? Oh, and by the way; if you squawk about it, the Police will arrest and toss you in jail till you learn to shut your yap and go along with the new arrangement. è Welcome to lay investiture.While Rome for the most part opposed lay investiture, because administrating the Church all over Europe was a monumental task, for centuries the Popes begrudgingly consented to allow secular rulers to assist in the appointment of church officials. Some of these appointments were wise and provided good and godly men to lead the Church in their domain. Other times, nepotism and crass pragmatism saw, at the best inept and at the worst, corrupt officials installed.The issue became a controversy when the Popes decided to reign things in and required that church officials be appointed by the Church itself. Secular rulers were no longer allowed to do so. But just because the Popes said “No” to lay investiture, didn't mean secular rulers stopped. And that's where the brueha kicked in.It came to a head in 1076 when Pope Gregory VII and the Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV came to a loggerheads over the archbishop of Milan. Both men proposed different candidates, and both believed it was his right to appoint the office. The Pope threatened excommunication if the Emperor refused to comply. Henry answered by calling a synod of German bishops at Worms in 1076. The Synod deposed Pope Gregory. Not to be outdone, Gregory excommunicated Henry and absolved his subjects of allegiance to him. A deft move—since at the time, Henry and his Saxon nobles were at odds. These nobles then demanded Henry reconcile with Gregory within a year or forfeit his throne. So the Emperor was forced to make peace with Gregory in a famous meeting at Canossa. Henry demonstrated his contrition by walking around the castle for 3 days in the snow, barefoot! The Pope reversed the excommunication and received the Emperor back into the faith.That's the end of the story – a happy one, right? Not quite.Henry leveraged his return to favor into a campaign against the Pope. He marched on Rome and set up a new Pope. Gregory died in exile. Still, Pope Gregory's position on investiture eventually prevailed.In 1099, Pope Urban II decreed that anyone who either gave or received lay investiture was excommunicated. In 1105 a moderate compromise was reached at Bec and ratified in a Council at Westminster two yrs later.Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV was followed by, can you guess? Yep; Henry V. It was during his reign the papacy ultimately won the investiture struggle. At Worms in 1122, a Concordat was drawn up in which the Emperor agreed The Church could elect bishops and abbots and invest them with their office. Although elections were to be held in the presence of the king, he was prohibited from influencing the decision by simony or the threat of violence. While it was the Church who selected her clergy, it was the secular rulers who handed them the symbols of their authority in the form of a crozier and a ring, representing their role as Shepherd of God's flock and that they were married to the Church. By allowing secular rulers a hand in the bestowal of the symbols of office, it conveyed the idea of the bishop's duty to support the secular ruler.The political intrigues that flowed from this dual loyalty of church officials across Europe is a thing of legend; literally! I'm guessing most listeners have seen at least one movie that captures the intrigues that ruled the political and religious scene at this time.Despite the Concordat of Worms in 1122, there were a few of Europe's nobles who continued to practice lay investiture. And there were plenty of their appointees willing to go along with them because they were being appointed to some pretty cushy posts. But eventually, lay investiture was set aside as feudal society gave way to the modern world.We round out this episode with a review of an aberrant doctrine that kept resurfacing in the Church of both the East and West. It was an attempt to understand the Person of Christ.Adoptionism had an early origin, being advocated by the Ebionites in the 2nd C. The famous Gnostic heresiarch Cerinthus taught a form of adoptionism.While the details of Adoptionism vary from time to time and place to place, the basic idea is that Jesus was merely a human being who was adopted by God into His role as Messiah and Savior. The nature of this adoption, that is, what it effected IN Jesus is where Adoptionists differ. That and when exactly God the Father adopted Jesus the man to become the Son of God. Some think it occurred at his baptism, others at his resurrection, and still others at His ascension. Adoptionists all concur with Jesus' humanity, but deny His eternal essence as God the Son. They say he BECAME the Son of God, due to his morally excellent life.The Church declared Adoptionism a heresy at the end of the 2nd C, but it continued to find a home in the work of several teachers and groups in the following centuries, right up thru the Middle Ages and into small groups today.The term “Adoptionism” is used to describe another but very different flavor of the idea that arose in Spain during the 8th and 9th Cs. To differentiate it from classic adoptionism, which starts with a human Jesus who becomes the divine Christ by adoption, historians refer to this later heresy as Spanish Adoptionism. It begins with God the Son, adopting a human form, but not really the human NATURE that went with it.The first to articulate this view in the late 8th C was Elipandus, archbishop of Toledo. His views were quickly seized on by his opponents and declared heretical. His supporters were summoned to appear before Charlemagne, whose clerics were able to persuade them away from their aberrant beliefs. That ought to have been the end of the matter. They'd been treated civilly and with respect by the Emperor, but when they arrived before the Pope in Rome they were publically humiliated. This seems to have only inflamed the adherents back in Spain who determined to resist Rome's efforts to reign them in.This came at an unfortunate moment as the Church in Spain was at this time dealing with Moorish-Muslim rulers.While Adoptionism can rightly be labeled a heresy, especially its early manifestation, Spanish Adoptionism is a more tricky wicket. I don't want to get into the technical details of the theology, so let me just say that there is in the NT some passages in the Gospels and letters of Paul that seem to speak of Jesus' 2 sonships. When these passages are viewed through the lens of some of the early church fathers, one can see a subtle nod toward the core ideas of Spanish Adoptionism.It gets back to that issue we've spoken of often here in CS; how to understand, then how to ARTICULATE the nature, person, and identity of Jesus. Theology is the fine art of distinctions – distinctions that have to be expressed in words. Finding the exact, right word has proven to be the angst-filled work of centuries and some of the keenest minds in history.Though Spanish adoptionism was effectively quelled by the 10th C, it resurfaced in the 11th and 12th, to once again enjoy a moment in the sun, then to be sprayed with some more theological Roundup, and die out once more.It's the ancient, classical adoptionism that's enjoyed a resurgence in modern times in a flavor of liberal Christianity. In this brand of Adoptionism, Jesus is a man, who by his exemplary moral path becomes an enlightened agent for God's Spirit to work through.  This Liberal Jesus isn't a Savior so much as an Example.

This episode of CS the first of a couple summary reviews we'll do. My plan is to continue on as we have, pausing occasionally to in one episode catch us up in broad strokes on what we've covered so far.My hope is to avoid the whole, “Can't see the forest for the trees” thing. For those listeners where English is a second language, that phrase is an idiom that means the loss of perspective behind too many details.Though I want to give a clean straight narrative for our story of the Church, we can't help but bounce around ab it between times & places. It's just the nature of trying to examine all of church history, instead of its course in one location. Still, I hope to build a basic sense of historical flow. To that end, stopping every so often to step back and provide a quick summary of the material we've covered so far seems appropriate.Overviews won't have nearly the detail as a regular episode, but they will have a lot more names & dates since it's a culling & gleaning of what the last so many episodes have covered.Okay, here we go with our first Overview . . .While the Christian Faith began as an inordinately tiny sect within 1st Century Judaism, it grew rapidly, first among Jews, then among Gentiles. This growth can be attributed to two main causes. First, was the generally lethargic spiritual condition of the ancient world, most especially in those regions dominated by the Roman Empire. Several factors conspired to make people ripe for the message the Gospel proclaimed. Second, was the spiritual dynamic provided by early followers of Jesus. They demonstrated an exceptional lifestyle that attracted others. Even while Rome followed an official policy of opposition to the Faith, the number of its adherent grew.Early Christianity is divided by historians into 2 periods: the Apostolic & Post-Apostolic.The Apostolic lasts from the mid-1st Century to the early 2nd when the last of the Apostolic Fathers died. The Apostolic Fathers are counted not only as the original disciples of Jesus and their peers but their direct followers; men like Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch & Polycarp.The Post-Apostolic period stretches from the early 2nd Century to the beginning of the 4th. During this time the leadership of the church moved from direct dependence on the Apostolic Fathers to local church leaders, known as pastors. As the decades passed, these local lead pastors morphed into bishops who oversaw a growing episcopal structure.This period was marked by episodic & regional persecution of Christians in Roman lands. It wasn't until the mid to late 3rd Century that persecution became a widespread policy. It ended with the arrival of Emperor Constantine and the Edict of Milan in 313. Names associated with this time are Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Origen.Besides persecution, the main challenge the Post-Apostolic church faced was presented by heresy.Early Christians heeded the New Testament's repeated call for maintaining correct belief and refuting false teaching. The Faith wasn't just the philosophical ramblings of a sun-burnt sage. It was rooted in historical events both ancient & recent. When aberrant teachers attempted to hijack core & cardinal doctrines, bishops gathered to study what their Scriptures said and arrive at a consensus. In this way, they refuted the challenge of such groups & teaching as Docetism and its later evolution, Gnosticism.  They rebuffed Marcionism, the Ebionites, Manachaeists & the aberrant teaching of Montanus. The greatest threat rose from a Bishop named Arius who denied Jesus' deity.  Though Arianism was officially quashed at the First of the Great or what are called Ecumenical Councils held at Nicaea in 325, it continued to be espoused in many regions for the next century and a half. The Council of Nicaea established the orthodox Christian position today known as Trinitarianism, which holds that God is one in essence while three in persons. While 300 bishops signed the Nicaean Creed, many of them went away from the Council unsettled about the terminology used in the Creed to define the correct view of God. The task of sharpening the terms & arriving at the proper description of the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity was left to the Cappadocian Fathers some time later.The Post-Apostolic period is also when the Church Fathers realized the need to provide a definitive list of books that comprised the Bible. The work of several councils finally closed the Canon during this time.The Post-Apostolic Period was followed by what's often called Catholic Christianity; not to be confused with ROMAN Catholic. The term ‘catholic' means universal and stands in contrast to the many often subtle doctrinal challenges that arose following the Council of Nicaea. This period, stretching from the beginning of the 4th Century to the end of the 5th saw 7 major Church Councils that all met to address some new or renewed challenge to orthodoxy, specifically as it related to the theological can of worms the First Council at Nicaea opened, and maybe we should say, sought to close. You see, once the Church settled on the Trinity as the right way to understand God, the main questions were;1) How do the persons of the Godhead relate to one another?2) How are we to understand the person of Jesus? How do we reconcile Him as both God & Man?This second issue ended up in sometimes bloody brawls as advocates of different positions used the debate to secure political favor & religious prestige.During this period of Catholic Christianity, 4 cities rose as the gravitational centers of the Christian world; Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, & the new capital of the Empire, Constantinople. Alexandria, Antioch & Constantinople were all in the East while Rome was alone in the West. The main contest for prestige & power was between Alexandria & Antioch which used 2 different ways of interpreting Scripture and understanding the Person & Nature of Christ. Alexandria had a long reputation as a center of scholarship but Antioch continually produced excellent preachers. Since the Church at Constantinople, being near the royal palace, was the premier church in terms of securing imperial favor, whoever was the bishop there tended to secure favor for his side of the debate. It infuriated many of the bishops at Alexandria that Antioch kept providing new leaders for the Church at Constantinople. The supreme example of all this is the verbal and at times physical brawl that took place between Cyril of Alexandria and Nestorius from Antioch, who became Bishop at Constantinople.It was during this time as well that the Church at Rome emerged to become, not just the lead church in the West, but over the entire Empire. One of the reasons for this is the generally excellent leadership the Roman Bishops provided. When the Eastern churches were wracked by debate, Rome often played a mediating influence or lent a perspective that resolved the issue.What encouraged Rome's emergence as the lead church in the Faith was the claim of some Roman Bishops that they were spiritual heirs to Peter's spiritual hegemony. That claim was not without considerable push-back by many, but it eventually proved persuasive so that Rome was given tacit, if not outright honor as the lead church.Again, it was during this era the Ecumenical Councils were convened. They were concerned largely with settling the Christological disputes tearing apart the Church. The First Council of Nicaea in 325 & First Council of Constantinople in 381 condemned Arianism. The Council of Ephesus in 431 condemned Nestorianism and affirmed Mary as the Theotokos; that is the "Mother of God."The Council of Chalcedon just 20 years later affirmed that Christ had two natures; He was fully God and fully man, yet was one person. It specifically condemned Monophysitism, the belief that Jesus' divine nature overwhelmed his human nature. Following Chalcedon, several groups broke with the orthodox, or what we would call from this time, Catholic position; again, not Roman Catholic. The term simply means what was the accepted position of the Church & churches of the Roman World. The churches of Egypt, headquartered at Alexandria tended to be Monophysite while the churches that moved into the East followed a distorted view of Nestorius' & began to adopt the idea that Jesus was not only of two natures, He was two persons in a single body. As we've seen in previous episodes, it's unlikely Nestorius himself believed that, though his opponents claimed he did, and his later followers do seem to have moved in that direction.One of the most significant events of this period occurred in late February of 380. Emperor Theodosius I signed the Edict of Thessalonica which made Catholic, Trinitarian Christianity the official state religion of the Roman Empire. Prior to this the Emperors Constantius II & Valens favored Arian flavors of the Faith. Theodosius I declared the Trinitarianism of the Nicene Creed as the perennial position of the Empire. While there were going to be all kinds of problems associated with making Christianity the State religion, what ensured it would really go awry was that Theodosius went further and in effect outlawed unbelief; any belief but Catholic Christianity was deemed heretical. Heretics weren't just put out of the Church, they were put out of life!It didn't take long for the Church to avail itself of the Imperial organizational structure, adopting similar geographical borders. They even kept the old imperial name – Diocese. Bishops oversaw the various dioceses. The bishop's home was known as a seat, or see.Back-tracking a bit, when Christians were being persecuted during the 2 and 3rd Centuries in the West, many of them fled for refuge to the East and the Sassanid Empire, the long-time enemy of Rome. Though the Sassanids were Zoroastrians, they welcomed the Christians because, you know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.When Rome became a Christian State, the Sassanids feared the Christians would become a kind of religious Fifth Column and began persecuting them. The once vibrant Persian church was decimated and many of these Eastern Christians fled even further East, becoming what is today referred to as the Church of the East.As we've seen in recent episodes, Monasticism became a standard feature of Christianity during the time of Catholic Christianity and carried on for centuries after in the Middle Ages.While there are dozens of names associated with this time, we'll limit our list to a few as we wrap up this episode.There are the Cappadocian Fathers: Basil the Great, his brother Gregory of Nyssa and their friend, Gregory of Nazianzus.There's the Popes Damasus I & Leo the Great.We've mentioned Cyril of Alexandria & his nemesis, the defrocked & banished Nestorius.There's the astoundingly gifted Bishop of Milan, Ambrose and his student who eventually outshined his teacher – Augustine.This is the time of Jerome & the Golden-tongued Chrysostom.It's the time Attila the Hun and Alaric whose Goths sacked Rome.It's the age of the Vandals who are such brutes they give their name to bad behavior.This is also the time of an interesting character whose life has become a thing of legend – Patrick of Ireland. We'll take a look at him soon.The Era of Catholic Christianity ends in the late 5th Century with the Fall of the Western Roman Empire. This is of course an arbitrary line we draw, especially when we consider that the Eastern Empire saw itself as the continuation of the Empire for another thousand years.But most historians see the Fall of the Western Roman Empire as a momentous event that leveled a blow to the European mindset it took centuries to recover from. Thus, the period between the Roman Empire and the Modern Era is called the Middle Ages. And while it's been fashionable for a long time in the popular idea of history to see the Middle Ages as Dark and a long stretch when nothing of much consequence happened, the more astute student knows the Middle Ages were a time of amazing development.

This week's episode is titled “Hammering out the Details. ”That group of guys known as the Early Church Fathers for the most part were pastors. They were leaders of churches who had a pastoral concern for both the Faith & their people.The later 1st through 3rd Cs saw the Church expand around the Mediterranean basin, in a few places up into central Europe, across North Africa, across the Middle East and into Mesopotamia and the Persian East. While believers contended with periodic outbursts of persecution in Roman controlled territory, the great threat was that presented by aberrant sects that kept rising up aiming to hijack the Faith.It's understandable why this was such a problem in these early centuries. Christian theology was still being hammered out. In fact, it was the threat posed by aberrant groups that forced church leaders to formalize precisely what it was Christians believed. Just as today, some new wind of doctrine blows thru the church and most Christians have little idea what's wrong with it; they just sense something is. It doesn't sound or feel right, but they couldn't say precisely what it is. It takes some astute pastor, Bible student, or theologian to show HOW said doctrine is contrary to Scripture. Then everyone's clued in and has an idea of why & how that aberration or heresy is off.Multiply that process by many years & lots more of those winds of doctrine, and you can see how a large & detailed body of Christian theology developed. Most times, church leaders turn to the Bible to compare the new idea to what's already known to be God's Word & Will. But sometimes what's needed is some new words – or at least to make sure we know what the words we're using when we explain something mean! And we need to make sure we all mean the same thing by those words. We see how important this is today when dealing with the cults. Two people can say they're Christians, and both believe in & follow Jesus. But while one person's “Jesus” is the eternal Son of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of a virgin Jewish teenager named Mary, the other person's “Jesus” is really just a manifestation of the archangel Michael, or à the human son of a god named Elohim who used to be a man on another planet a long time ago who ascended into being a god with a heavenly harem by which he produces spirits looking for human bodies. Believe it or not, that is what a couple prominent pseudo-Christian cults believe today.My point is è we need to make sure we pour the same meaning into the words we use, especially when we're talking theology, because what we believe about God is the most important thing about us.We'll see how complex & what a major deal this all was when we get to the debates about the trinity & the nature of Jesus in the 4th & 5th Cs. For now, realize that even earlier, during the latter 1st thru 3rd Cs, it was usually pastors who did most of the theological work as they dealt with the challenge of goofy teachings about God & Jesus confronting the people they led.Let's take a brief look at some of the major doctrinal challenges & groups that challenged the early church.We already considered the threat of Gnosticism. We spent a whole episode on that topic because it was a huge challenge that a few letters of the NT addressed.We considered the challenge Marcion presented, with his virulent anti-semitism & attempt to separate the God of the OT from the God of the New.We took a brief look at Montanus and his, what we might call, early Charismatic Movement. Ws saw that while there were indeed some aberrant elements in Monantism, they did not rise to the level of heresy the Early Church ended up labeling them with.A group we've not looked at yet was a kind of anti-Marcionist sect called the Ebionites. They emerged toward the end of the 1st Century & continued into the 4th.  Their beliefs smack of the error the Apostle Paul deals with in his Galatian Epistle.Ebionites said Jesus wasn't the Eternal Son of God; he was just a successor to Moses whose mission was to enforce a strict legalism.  They claimed Jesus was just a Jew who kept the law perfectly. And because He did, at his baptism, the Spirit of God descended on him, empowering him to be a prophet. This sounds a lot like one of the many Gnostic sects.Ebionites were ascetics who avoided any & all forms of pleasure, assuming if it was pleasurable, it had to be wrong.  They practiced poverty, ultra forms of self-denial, & elaborate religious rituals. They abhorred the Gospel of Grace. Their name, “Ebionites” comes from the Hebrew word meaning “Poor Ones.” They likely took this name to honor their founder, Ebion, who spurned his given-name in favor of the title “Poor One.”What little we know about the Ebionites comes to us from the accounts of their opponents. The first Christian to write about them was Irenaeus who mentions them in his work, Against Heresies. Origen also mentions them, his account matching that of Irenaeus.They rejected the NT in favor of a scroll known as “The Gospel According to the Hebrews.” Keeping the Jewish flavor of their origins, they met in synagogues. As would be imagined, they considered the Apostle Paul with his emphasis on salvation by grace through faith to be a dangerous heretic. To Ebionites, Jesus wasn't the Savior; Moses was because he gave the Law. Jesus was nothing but a Solomon-like figure who proved people COULD obey the law.When the Romans Titus laid siege to Jerusalem, the Ebionites join forces with the Gnostics. And a close reading of Paul's letter to the Colossians gives a hint that it was this Gnostic-Ebionism that was troubling the church there.Another group that presented a challenge to the Early church were the Manichaeists. I'm not going to go into a lot of depth here. Suffice it to say Manichaeism was a rather bizarre cousin to Gnosticism. Like the Gnostics, they were dualist; meaning they considered the spiritual realm to be unalterably good while the material world was hopelessly corrupt.Their founder was the 3rd C mystic Mani. He proposed two opposing forces, light & darkness, forever locked in eternal combat. Salvation was defined as the victorious struggle of the Children of Light overcoming the darkness by a life of self-denial and celibacy. If some of this sounds a lot like the Zoroastrianism of Persia – Give yourself a gold star; you figured out where it came from!Mani was a Parthian who'd grown up in a home that was nominally Christian. He was loath to give up the ancient Zoroastrianism of his peers and homeland, so he decided to mix the two. And once he'd begun, he decided to go ahead and add a dash of Buddhism, some Hinduism, & a sprinkle of Judaism. Mani's religion was an ancient version of Baha'i – you know, just snag whatever seems most appealing from a handful of major religions, toss it all in a bowl, mix thoroughly, cook at 350 for 20 minutes, let cool, and serve with a cup of Koolaid.But it's not hard to understand WHY Manichaeism would appeal to so many people at that time. The Romans had brought dozens of different people under one political & economic system. Since religion was a crucial part of most people's lives in that day, the diversity of faiths was a potential stress point that could lead to conflict. A religion that seemed to appeal to everyone because it contained a little bit of them all seemed a good move.Let's turn now to take a look at another key Church Leader; Clement of Alexandria.Titus Flavius Clement was born in Athens to pagan parents. He became a Christian by studying philosophy. He settled in Alexandria in Egypt & attended a school there because he was impressed by the director's interpretation of Scripture. When that director retired in AD 190, Clement succeeded him as head of the school, the same Origen would later take over.Now, I hope you find this as interesting as I did. This school, while run by Christians & dedicated to Christ, was anything BUT a narrow-minded academy aimed at spitting out mind-numbed followers. The school reflected the cultural mixture of Alexandria. It welcomed Christians, pagans, and Jews who wanted the best education the time could field. The Christian directors of the school believed that the Christian faith, given a fair hearing, would prevail over other ideas. So among others, the non-Christian philosopher, Ammonius Saccas taught there. Among his students were both Origen and Plotinus, founder of Neoplatonism.During his years as a teacher in Alexandria, Clement wrote most of his works. He followed the example of Philo, an Alexandrian Jewish scholar who'd used Greek philosophy to interpret the Old Testament. Clement adopted Philo's allegorical method of interpreting Scripture, often quoting him at length.Now, I need to pause & define a term I've used a lot, not just in this episode but in several previous = Pagan. Today, in popular usage the word ‘pagan' is fraught with a shipload of negative baggage. If you call someone a “pagan” it's an insult; you're saying they're godless & immoral.That's NOT what I mean here when I refer to someone as a pagan. I mean it as it's come to be used by a growing number of alternative religious groups today. Pagans are those who've returned to a worldview that sees the forces of nature as worthy of worship. Witches & Wicca are pagan and draw their inspiration from the ancient world that believed in a plethora of gods & goddesses who controlled the forces of nature and exerted dominion over only certain regions. By pagan, I mean it in this technical sense; the worshippers of the Greek & Roman gods. People who believed the myths & legends of the Greco-Roman civilization.I pause to define “pagan” because Clement wrote specifically to them, seeking to reason with them about why they ought to put their faith in Christ. In his Exhortation to the Gentiles he used the same arguments employed by the Apologists, but with more sophistication.  By cherry-picking quotes, he showed an ascending revelation upward through poets, philosophers, the Cybeline oracle, & Hebrew prophets to the highest revelation; Christ.Clement's major work was titled Miscellanies. As the title suggests, Clement said that the seeker has to go through a “patchwork” of ideas to get to the truth, like winnowing wheat through a sieve. He called philosophy a “schoolmaster” to bring the Greek-thinker to Christ. He believed God used philosophy to lead pre-Christian Gentiles to a knowledge of the truth of Christ. Although the teaching of Christ was complete in itself, philosophy served Clement as a kind of “wall for the vineyard” to defend the truth of Christianity.What's of interest to us about Clement of Alexandria is the impact he had on Origen. It was his ready use of philosophy and allegorical style of interpreting Scripture that had a far-reaching consequence in the Early & Medieval Church.Clement fled Alexandria during persecution under the Roman emperor Septimius Severus in 202 and died in Asia Minor.Next up is Tertullian.Tertullian was born in Carthage, North Africa, about AD 160. While his pre-christian life is sketchy, it seems he was a scholarly lawyer who was won to Christ in his 30's.Tertullian is reckoned one of the more important church fathers because he wrote a long list of apologetic and theological works in both Latin & Greek.  His Apologeticus was addressed to the Roman governor of Carthage. It refuted the charges leveled against Christians, demonstrated the loyalty of Christians to the empire, and showed that persecution of Christians was foolish because they multiplied when persecuted.Tertullian is rare among the Church Fathers in that he wasn't a pastor as most were. He did teach at Carthage, but he remained a layman who devoted himself to writing works aimed at presenting the reasonableness of the Faith, both to believers and outsiders.Tertullian became concerned over the way holiness was being neglected in the Church. When his appeals to church leaders fell on deaf ears, he decided to join the growing Montanist movement. You'll remember it was their aberrant views about asceticism that got them into trouble with the Church. Well, their moral discipline appealed to Tertullian. In his mind, if it was a choice of staying in a spiritually lethargic & morally compromised but doctrinally-right church or joining a Spirit-filled, morally excellent group that held some questionable practices, he'd rather be part of the later and use his influence to bring them in line. His influence had been rejected by the apostolic church at Carthage so he jumped ship. Tertullian remained doctrinally orthodox until his death. His followers rejoined the church at Carthage several decades later.Soon after conversion, Tertullian began a massive output of Christian writings occupying his last 25 years. A good part of these manuscripts, 31 Latin works, have survived to our time. These can be divided into 3 groups: Apologetics, Doctrine & Ethics.In his apologetic works, Tertullian answered the charges against Christians made by their enemies. He refutes accusations of, get this à infanticide and incest.Some of Christianity's most time-honored sayings are quotes from Tertullian, such as . . .Christians are made, not born.See, they say, how these Christians love one another, for the pagans are animated by mutual hatred; how the Christians are ready even to die for one another, for the pagans themselves will sooner put to death.We multiply whenever we are mown down by you; the blood of Christians is seed.Truth persuades by teaching, but does not teach by persuading.Truth does not blush.Out of the frying pan into the fire.He who flees will fight again.It is certainly no part of religion to compel religion.We worship unity in trinity, and trinity in unity; neither confounding the person nor dividing the substance It's in Tertullian that the phrases, “If God will,” “God bless,” & “God grant” make their first appearance in writing.Tertullian helped provide a theological position others would later draw on in the looming debates that occupied the Church for generations. It was Tertullian's treatment of the Trinity as being 3 persons in 1 substance; the divine and human natures of Christ; the subjection of man to original sin; and Christ's virgin birth and bodily resurrection that helped later generations articulate a cogent position on these difficult subjects.Both Athanasius & Augustine, as well as a whole host of later church fathers, look back to Tertullian for a clue how to proceed. Tertullian appears to be the first one to use the Latin trinitas as a descriptor for the doctrine of God as 3 person in 1 Substance.The what, when, & where of Tertullian's death is unknown. Jerome says he lived to a great age, but we have no record of him after 225 in Carthage, making him 65 at the time of his graduation to glory.