Podcasts about Brian Burrows

Shownotes and Transcript Dr. Andy Wakefield joins Hearts of Oak to discuss his transition from mainstream physician to medical industry whistle-blower, sharing with us his findings on the MMR vaccine's link to autism.  He talks about facing backlash, making films like "Vaxxed" and the recently released "Protocol 7" to address vaccine safety and pharmaceutical fraud.  Despite challenges like losing his license, Andy stresses the importance of revealing the truth to the public.  He highlights the profit-driven pharmaceutical industry's negligence towards patient safety, legal protections shielding companies from vaccine injury liability, and the need for public involvement in spreading awareness and demanding accountability.  PROTOCOL 7 - An Andy Wakefield Film   WEBSITE          protocol7.movie  X/TWITTER      x.com/P7Movie INSTAGRAM     instagram.com/protocol7movie Andy Wakefield has been likened to the Dreyfus of his generation -- a doctor falsely accused of scientific and medical misconduct, whose discoveries opened up entirely new perceptions of childhood autism, the gut-brain link, and vaccine safety. As an ‘insider,' the price for his discoveries and his refusal to walk away from the issues they raised, was swift and brutal, with loss of job, career, reputation, honours, colleagues, and country. And yet he enjoys a huge and growing support from around the world. Wakefield's stance made him a trusted place for whistle-blowers -- from government and industry to confess and ‘download.' He has extraordinary stories to share. Wakefield is now an award-winning filmmaker. Despite elaborate attempts at censorship, his documentary VAXXED: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe – the revelations of a vaccine scientist at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention- changed the public mindset on the truth about vaccine safety. Wakefield's is a story that starts with professional trust in the instincts of mothers, choice and consequences, a quest for truth, and perseverance against overwhelming odds. Andy has long pursued the scientific link between childhood vaccines, intestinal inflammation, & neurological injury in children.   Dr. Wakefield is the co-founder of the Autism Media Channel & the founder of 7th Chakra Films.   He is the director of his first major narrative feature, the recently released #Protocol7,  co-written with Terry Rossio (Aladdin, Shrek, Pirates of the Caribbean, Fast and Furious, Godzilla vs. King Kong). Connect with Andy... WEBSITE           7thchakrafilms.com  INSTAGRAM      instagram.com/andrewjwakefield X/TWITTER       x.com/DrAndyWakefield Interview recorded  25.6.24 Connect with Hearts of Oak... X/TWITTER        x.com/HeartsofOakUK WEBSITE            heartsofoak.org/ PODCASTS        heartsofoak.podbean.com/ SOCIAL MEDIA  heartsofoak.org/connect/ SHOP                  heartsofoak.org/shop/ Transcript (Hearts of Oak) I am delighted to have Dr. Andrew Wakefield with us today. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us today. (Dr Andy Wakefield) Peter, my pleasure. Great to be here. Great to have you. And your name will be well known, certainly to many Brits. And I live through what you faced just as a Brit consuming news. And we'll get into all of that. People can follow you @DrAndyWakefield on Twitter. And we're going to talk about your latest film, Protocol7.Movie. All the links will be in the description. So we will get to that. But I encourage people to not only look at your Twitter feed, but also look at the website for the film, which is literally just out. But you're the award-winning filmmaker of Vaxxed and many other films. And of course, the latest one just came out. Doctor, if I can bring us back a little bit, because you had a certain time where your name was massively out there and that was simply asking questions. I think a lot of us have woken up to maybe big pharma, have woken up to vaccines and their role over the last four years. And you were much earlier than many people in the public. But that Lancet MMR autism, and I think your Wikipedia probably says fraud more than any other Wikipedia I've ever read. But you talked about that link between MMR, mumps, measles and rubella vaccine and autism. Maybe you could just go back and let us know your background, your medical background, and then what led up to you putting that out and maybe give us an insight into the chaos that ensued? Certainly, Peter. I was an entirely mainstream physician. I graduated at St. Mary's Hospital in London, part of the University of London, one of six generations of doctors in my family to have graduated there. And I ran a research team in gastroenterology at the Royal Free Hospital in North London and our principal interests were Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis inflammatory bowel disease, and in 1995 parents started contacting me and saying my child was perfectly fine they had an MMR vaccine in many cases and they regressed rapidly into autism, had seizures, lost speech, and language interaction with their siblings. And ultimately they were diagnosed with autism, well I know I knew nothing about autism. It was so rare when I was at medical school we weren't taught about it and I said you must have got the wrong number,. They said the reason we're contacting you is my child has intractable bowel problems, failure to thrive, they're in pain, I know they're in pain even though they've lost the ability to communicate. And the doctors and nurses that I've spoken to about this have said that's just part of autism, get over it, put them in a home, move on have another child. It's an extraordinary situation and so we investigated these children I put together a very eminent team of physicians. Who investigated these children and confirmed that the parents were right the children had I had an inflammatory bowel disease, and that's now been confirmed in multiple studies worldwide. When we treated that bowel disease, then not only did the gastrointestinal symptoms improve, but the autism improved. We didn't cure it, but the children, for example, started using words they hadn't used for five years. It was quite extraordinary. And so as academics, we said that didn't happen, and we did it 183 times, and it happened pretty much every time. So, we then began to believe that there was something really very, very interesting. So, when the parents said my child regressed after a vaccine, we had a professional and moral obligation to take that very seriously. But that really flew in the face of government policy and pharmaceutical industry profiteering. And that was really the beginning of the end of my career. The dean, Harry Zuckerman, took me aside and said, if you continue this vaccine safety research, it will not be good for your career. In that, at least he was correct. And when you offend government policymaking and the bottom line for the pharmaceutical industry, really, there's no price you will not pay. And people are now familiar with that. In the context of COVID, it's happened to many, many eminent doctors and scientists. But at the time, this was was a novelty, the cancel culture was a novelty, the ability of the system to destroy your career if you stepped out of line was something really quite new. And... So, I moved to America, set up a centre there for here in Austin, Texas for autism. They eventually destroyed my career there. And so I thought, well, how can I continue to help this population? And I'd been fascinated by filmmaking for a long time, screenwriting for a long time. And what had happened, Peter, is that over the years, because of the position I'd taken, And people had come to me from the Department of Health in the UK or from regulatory agencies such as the CDC in the US or the industry, the vaccine manufacturers, and said, we've done a terrible thing. Here is the evidence. We've committed fraud. And so I became a repository, if you like, for whistle-blowers. And this story, the latest story, Protocol 7, I mean, my films have been made about these whistle-blowers, some of them. And the latest story, Protocol 7, is one such whistle-blower, who came to me many years ago and presented to me the compelling story that ultimately we've turned into a major narrative feature film. Well, we'll get into that, but the role of media, I mean, you had BBC Channel 4 with hit pieces against you and I'm sure many others. What was that like? Because you said you were kind of mainstream. I remember that time as well, whenever I was mainstream, probably six years ago. So, it was a little bit later due. And you believe these institutions are positive. They're about actually reporting the news. And then you realize, actually, they're not. What was that like whenever you had all these media outlets suddenly make you a target of their reporting? Well, I think it really, part of it was Rupert Murdoch, his son, James Murdoch, was put onto the board of GlaxoSmithKline, Europe's biggest manufacturer of MMR, with the objective as a non-executive director of protecting that company's interests in the media, certainly the Murdoch media. And his target was me and they came after me in the biggest way and in the wake of that you know channel 4 as you say and others followed suit. It was very tricky. It was very difficult, because you didn't get to put the other side of it everything was heavily edited and it was just a relentless attack they were determined utterly determined that I committed fraud never committed scientific fraud in my life. But you can destroy the career of a physician or scientist in five minutes, literally five minutes. All you need is the headline and that's it. And then you spend the rest of your life trying to. Get back your reputation if ever. And I abandoned that idea because it was, the issue wasn't about me. It was about something far more important. And as soon as I, you know, I stopped worrying about what the media might say about me and simply got on with the job of doing what I could to help these children, then a huge weight was lifted from my shoulders. I just didn't worry about that anymore. Say what they like. I've got a job to do while I still have time on this planet. And that was to advocate on behalf of these children and try and move the needle on the real pandemic, which is of childhood neurodevelopmental disorders. I mean, it's in the media in the UK every day. We're talking about one in just over 20 children in Northern Ireland, in Scotland, in the UK. And this is an extraordinary level of a permanent serious neurological condition. When I was at medical school, it was one in 10,000. So what has happened? Just to bring your listeners up to date, your viewers up to date. The CDC performed a study at my behest. I told them, I said, look, I think that age of exposure is a major factor. The younger you are when you get the MMR, the greater the risk. It's not simply you get the MMR, you get autism. That's not it. There's got to be a co-factor associated with it. And age of exposure is one, I believe. Now, everybody is now familiar that the outcome from a viral infection, for example, COVID, is age-related. The older you are with COVID, the greater the risk. So everybody gets that now. And I said this to them. I said, I think that younger of age, your exposure is a major risk. Why? Because with natural measles, if you get it under one, you're at greater risk of a severe outcome than you are if you're over one. There is an age-related risk. So, they went away, they tested that hypothesis, and they confirmed that it was absolutely true. And they spent the next 14 years covering up, destroying the data, destroying the documents and changing the results to say that MMR vaccine was safe. And it was only when William Thompson, the senior scientist at the CDC who had designed the study, collected the data and analysed the data, had written the paper, came to me, came to a colleague of mine who came to me and said, we have done this terrible thing. I can no longer live with it. Here is the truth. And that was the basis of the film Vaxxed. And it wasn't my opinion. It wasn't my producer's opinion. This was the senior scientist from the CDC responsible for the study confessing to this fraud. What happened? Nothing. No one was held accountable. Absolutely appalling. These people, these five scientists at the CDC and their superiors had. Committed fraud and put millions of children at risk of serious permanent neurological disease and done so wilfully, knowing that there was a risk. And so I was appalled. And beyond that, I thought my filmmaking is going to expose people. It's going to actually hold people accountable for what they've done. Your study was, it was a small study, wasn't it? I think it was what like a dozen or 16. You're simply saying there does seem to be a link and it's surprising it could have been surprised, one time it should have been surprising, that actually a doctor who raises a concern that should surely be looked at and checked over instead of attacking but it wasn't a massive. You were simply saying these this is the pattern that I'm seeing in the small number of patients that I'm looking at in this study. That's absolutely right. The way in which human disease syndromes are described is usually in a handful of patients who present with... It's such a consistent pattern of signs and symptoms of clinical measures that they merit reporting in their own right. And that's exactly what this was. It couldn't test any hypothesis. It couldn't come to any conclusions other than more research was needed. It actually said this study does not confirm an association between the vaccine. It doesn't. It couldn't do. It is merely reporting the parent's story. And it was a very sober paper. But of course, the media blew it up to claim that I had said MMR vaccine causes autism. No, I didn't. However, I would say that now in light of the CDC study, I would most certainly. And it's their behaviour. It's their need to commit the fraud and hide the data that is the most compelling evidence that there is this clear link. They know there's a link, and rather than do something responsible about it they have put the children at continued risk. In fact they've expanded the vaccine program dramatically, so they've put even more children at risk in my opinion. No, completely and where many of us maybe may not have been anti-vaxxers five years ago we sure as hell are now so it's changed completely, but can I just ask you; you were up against the UK General Medical Council. They're the ones that allow you to practice. They're a judge and jury. It was like a few years investigation. Then in 2010, they decided that you were no longer acceptable. They struck you off. Tell us about that, because I've talked to doctors recently during the COVID chaos who have fought for their right to continue to practice as doctors and they've struggled. You were doing this 14 years ago. What was that experience at the General Medical Council? It was difficult. It was really difficult because there needn't have been a hearing. They'd made up their minds before we even walked through the door. The General Medical Council were under threat from the government of having their powers taken away and the government dictating policy such as right to practice and medical sort of ethics. And they therefore were under scrutiny from the government. They had to deliver on a decision, and they did. Now, the reason I can say that is that their decision was contrived and indeed made up their minds before they even come to the hearing is that when it came for the first time before a proper judiciary, before the UK's sort of senior courts, if you like. The judge was appalled by the GMC's behaviour. He said, and this is in the trial of John Walker Smith, my colleague's appeal against the decision to strike him off, he said, this must never happen again. It was really a political tool to destroy dissent. Now, I appealed as well as John Walker Smith, but I was told by my lawyers that it would cost me half a million pounds to pursue that appeal. I didn't have half a million pounds. I didn't have anything. So, the law belongs to those who can afford it. And that's a fact, whether you live in America or whether you live in the UK. Justice belongs to those who can pay for it. And so there was no opportunity for me to have my case heard on its merits it was simply thrown out. What we did do though when Brian Dear a journalist published in the British medical journal now claiming that I had committed fraud which is absolute nonsense. We sought to sue him and the British Medical Journal in the state of Texas. Now, that's where I lived. That's where my reputation was damaged. And that's where there was legal precedent that allowed us to sue them. Because the BMJ is a journal, sells its wares, its journal, to Texas medical schools. It profits from Texas medical schools. And there is a long-arm statute in Texas that allows us to sue them for defamation. Why would you, it costs about $3 million to sue someone for defamation. Why would you even think of doing that in a situation where all of the evidence is going to be laid bare for the public to scrutinize? Why would you do that if you committed fraud? You wouldn't do it. There was no fraud and therefore we had an extremely strong case and they knew it. They absolutely knew it and and they did everything they could to get out of it. Ultimately, the judge, the appeal court judges here ruled that we did not have jurisdiction. That went in the face of all of the legal precedent. We did not have jurisdiction. Indeed, the BMJ lawyers invoked Texas law in an attack on us. I mean, it was extraordinary that we weren't allowed to sue them here in Texas. This was a political decision from the highest level. They did not want this case to go forward. They They knew we were going to prevail, we were going to win, and that would have undermined their entire sort of years and years and years attacking me and others for suggesting that MMR vaccine might not be safe. And so we were denied the opportunity to have the case heard on its merits, and that's where it remains. Tell us about Vaxxed in 2016 from cover-up to catastrophe. And that talks about the CDC and others destroying evidence to show that there could be a link between MMR and autism. That's something which I think many of us over the last four years would probably accept that sounds plausible, definitely that makes sense, because of what we've seen with big pharma and the collusion with media and governments. But this, you put this out prior to that happening probably in a world where maybe people may not accept that as much because there was more were trusting institutions. But tell us about that film and the authorities wanting to destroy any evidence which would show there was a link. Yes, that was a fascinating film because, as I say, it was an insider from the CDC who was intimately involved in the study that looked at age of exposure to MMR and autism. And it clearly showed that the younger you were when when you've got the vaccine, the greater the risk of autism. And that was in... All children, boys in particular, and black boys above all. For some reason, black children seem to be highly susceptible to this adverse vaccine reaction. Now, we don't know the reason for that. Further follow-up studies should have been done. Now, when the CDC found this association, they had some clear options that would have been there available to them in the interests of the the American public. They could have said, right, we can delay. Let's suggest delaying this vaccine until it's safer. And we have done a bigger, better study to confirm it or refute it. That's what they should have done, to give parents the information, to give them the option. But they didn't. They trashed all of the documents. They trashed the data. They altered the results. And they, for 14 years deceived the public, doctors, the government, everybody, and so it was a very powerful story and we made the documentary it got into the Tribeca film festival which for us was one of the sort of preeminent film festivals and then it was withdrawn, it was censored. And I think that occurred because one of the sponsors of the film was involved in money management on Wall Street involving the pharmaceutical companies and also perhaps a sponsor of the Tribeca Film Festival. And so, you know, this is what I hear, whether it's true or not, that remains to be seen. But we were censored. This is the first time this had ever happened at Tribeca Film Festival. And it was a bad few days. And then De Niro went on the television on the what's called Good Morning America and the Today Show, the big national shows and said, we should never have done that. We should have played this film, everybody should have seen it and made up their own minds. And suddenly there was an explosion of interest in this film that people had been banned from seeing. And every attempt by the media to cover it up or De Niro's partner, Jane Rosenthal, to shut him down during interviews failed. He was very angry, very angry. And it had the impact of spreading the news of this film worldwide. And so what we saw at that point, which should have pre-empted COVID, was a major shift in people's perception. They came to the movie theatre, they watched the movie, and they said, wow. There is something, there's a problem here. And then, of course, we had the COVID experience and the extraordinary mishandling and misconduct and lies and deception, about the disease, its origins, and the vaccines, so-called vaccine. And public trust in the public health authorities has never been at such a low. And it will never recover and the point peter is this is that they only have themselves to blame. That is the truth. It's no good then coming after me, or after you, or people who bring them the message or come from the clinic and saying this is what I see in these children. They only have themselves to blame for their arrogance and their stupidity. Now, 2016 it was about that specific link MMR and autism 2019 you widened it in vax 2and to look at actually side effects, vaccine harms, across a range. And certainly the issue does not seem to just be one vaccine, there seems to be a range and we've seen that, and I know any parent will have had this conversation thought, any parent that actually is aware of conversations happening, and they will maybe have questioned the rush to jab children. I will touch on the amount of jabs children now get, which is quite concerning, the rise of jabs. But 2019, yeah, you widen it away from just MMR and concerns of side effects to this seems to be in many vaccinations. Was that received differently or do you still have the the same uphill struggle. Now, that film was not mine. It was made by Brian Burrows and Polly Tommy. And I was interviewed for that film, but it wasn't my movie. But what happened, it was based upon a series of interviews. After Vaxxed, we went off across the country, principally Polly Tommy, interviewing thousands of parents about their experience. And it emerged that other vaccines were involved as well. And I'd come to this via a different route. I came over to America to testify before Congress on the vaccine autism issue. And there I became aware that the mercury in vaccines was a problem. I wasn't aware of it before, that aluminium in vaccines was a problem. And so it became clear that it is very likely that it's the actual toxic load that a child is presented with at a very early stage, rather than just being one vaccine or another. Now, we'll never be able to discern the truth of that. We know which vaccines are involved, which are more important or less important. And this comes to a point you've made, is that they have so many vaccines now that how do you even begin to untangle the complexity, the permutations of how was it this vaccine or this one and this one together or these three or these 15? We just don't know. And I think there's almost been a deliberate attempt to expand the program without doing the appropriate safety research in order to make it virtually impossible possible to target any specific vaccine. So, I think that my sort of current thinking on it, and had we been allowed to conclude our research without it being sabotaged, is that it is related to the toxic load. And there is a study that has literally just come out from Brian Hooker. Scientist with an affected child, that shows that there is an exponential increase in severe adverse reactions like autism with increasing load of vaccines. The more you're given at one time, the greater the risk of an adverse reaction. This dose response effect is very plausible and is very strong evidence of causation. So, the field is highly complex. I'm quite certain that the sheer volume of vaccines that are given to children is way in excess of being safe. I mean, way in excess. And it has never been subjected to any formal clinical trial. You know, is it safe to give multiple vaccines at the same time? Hasn't been done. Well, yeah let me poke, because the issue is supposedly we have had a vaccine that's tested over a 10-year period or whatever and then it's decided safe, but the amount of vaccines that children are given; there is absolutely no way you could do any long-term study on that number of combinations of vaccines. So, it's completely into the unknown. It is. Now and here's the dilemma lemma is that when you take a pharmaceutical agent in the United States, for example. Then it goes through years, literally sort of 10, 15 years of clinical trials, randomized control clinical trials using a placebo, an inert placebo, before it's deemed to be safe. And yet with vaccines, that doesn't apply. They're classified as biologics, and the bar is set very much lower for safety. And so for the childhood vaccines, there has never been a proper long-term placebo-controlled randomized trial of safety. And therefore, it is deceptive, entirely deceptive to say that these vaccines are safe. They're not because they've never been subjected to the appropriate safety studies. And people need to know that. People need to realize that. It just has not been done. And it's now, you know, it's too late to close the gate. The horse has bolted. The vaccine safety studies are very difficult to do now, certainly prospectively. Well, one thing I just, before I get into Protocol 7, one thing I realized traveling the States so much over the last couple of years is that you turn on a TV, so different from Britain, and you see an advert for medication and it tells you how wonderful this medication is. And then half the advert is telling you the possible side effects and usually ends up with death. And you're thinking, that's the last thing I want to have. But that's a world away, and that's just kind of pushed through and accepted that actually the side effect could be much worse than the disease or the issue that it's trying to address. And you think, I sit and watch some of those adverts when I'm over in the States and think, how do we get to this situation where death is seemingly better than a headache? It is bizarre and this direct consumer advertising that happens in America and the other the only other place it happens is New Zealand. We don't, you know it doesn't happen in the UK, but it it's it's there's something more insidious about it, and that is the fact that the nightly news networks here way in excess of 70% of their income comes from the pharmaceutical industry advertising. They could not sustain their operation, a news operation, in the absence of that pharmaceutical industry sponsorship. And so, the industry controls the narrative the industry controls the editorial the headline they're not going to publish something and this happened to me I was interviewing with a girl called Cheryl Ackerson outstanding journalist who was at the the time at CBS. And she said, Andy, when we have finished editing this sequence about vaccines and autism, I will get a call within, you know, in 15 minutes, I'll get a call from the money men on the top story, a top floor saying, you will not play this segment because our sponsors have said they'll pull their money. Well, she was wrong. It was five minutes later. It came five minutes later. And that's the way they operate, I'm afraid. So there is, over and above advertising their drugs, there is something far more sinister about the control, the influence that these drug companies have over American mainstream media. Fortunately, in the UK, that direct-to-consumer advertising does not exist. So I want to jump on, which fits perfectly into Protocol 7, which seems to be about someone, a lawyer, small town, sees issues with Big Pharma, with the industry and wants to challenge. And it is a David and Goliath, something I guess, as you alluded to, we're all up against with Big Pharma. But tell us about this film, which is a story about a whistle-blower, but also going up against Big Pharma. This is based on a true story whistle-blower who came to me many years ago at a meeting in Chicago and revealed this fraud within Merck in respect of its mumps vaccine. And it's really a story more about the behaviour, how the industry behaves when confronted with a threat to its profiteering and its monopolistic sort of control of a vaccine in a country like America. And it's against sort of set against the love and devotion the um intuition of a mother who happens to be a lawyer who fights who battles against the power of the industry. And I'm not going to spoil the end for anyone but I urge people to see this film. It is it's now won 27 film awards it's only just really come out. It's got some wonderful reviews. Very, very high scores on rotten tomatoes and IMDb, so the key to the success of this film is its dissemination is people watching it and we're planning our UK release our European release as well right now So when it comes, please support it. Please get your friends and family to it. Merck realized in the 90s that the Mumps vaccine wasn't working and they took, many, many steps to cover that up and to essentially defraud the American public, the medical profession and others. And that's what the story is about. And it's based upon documents, actual documents obtained from that company that confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt what happened. It's important in the context of safety. And you may say, why is it? The film really is about, or Merck's fraud, was about the efficacy, the protectiveness of the vaccine. It wasn't working as well as they said it was working. And that made it dangerous. Why? Because mumps in children is a trivial condition. That's acknowledged by the CDC. Mumps in post-pubertal adults is not trivial. You risk suffering testicular inflammation and sterility or or ovarian inflammation, brain inflammation. And so a vaccine that doesn't work or only works for a limited amount of time will make you susceptible to mumps again when you're past puberty, when you're in that at-risk period. And so a vaccine that doesn't work makes it a dangerous vaccine. It makes mumps a more dangerous disease. And this is a very important thing to understand within the context of mumps. Merck certainly knew about it and continued to defraud the public despite that. So yeah, it's a very, very important film over and above the issue of mumps. It's about how the industry responds to threats that really sort of compromise its ability to earn revenue, make profits, and maintain a monopoly. Because I think people often forget, and maybe have woken up during the COVID tyranny, that these institutions, they exist to make money for their shareholders. They don't really exist to make a product which makes you better. Their primary aim is the share price for shareholders, just like any company. And if they make a product that actually helps you, then to me, that's a bonus. Is that too cynical a view of the industry? No, it's absolutely true. And they wouldn't deny that. They would say, we're here as a business to make money. We're here as a business to serve our shareholders, our stockholders, first and foremost. That's not ambiguous at all. They would admit to that. The problem comes when everything's fine and they're making good drugs and they're benefiting people. That's fine. It's how the industry responds when something goes wrong. And for example, with Merck and Vioxx, the drug that, you know, was notoriously unsafe. But, you know, they knew at the time of licensing that there were problems. It was causing strokes and heart attacks. It was estimated, I think, that many hundreds or thousands of people suffered as a consequence of that drug. In the litigation in Australia, where Merck were, really, their heads were on the block about this. They uncovered some, in discovery, they uncovered documents which were an exchange between Merck employees about what to do about doctors who criticized their drug. And they said, we may have to seek them out and destroy them where they live. This is not conspiracy theory. This is company policy. There you have these guys saying, we may have to seek them out and destroy them where they live. Okay, so these are the kind of people with whom you're dealing. Tell us, because we hear that these companies are beyond the legal sphere. They have protections and safeguards within countries, and it doesn't matter what side effects that the drug causes, they have this legal protection. I mean, is that the case, or is there a way of actually using the legal system to actually go after these companies? Or is it a slap on the wrist? Sometimes they pay out money to different governments and they say: oops Well there there is and it's interesting the national childhood vaccine injury act in this country in America in 1986 took away liability financial liability from the drug companies for death and injury caused by childhood vaccines on the recommended schedule. Now, that was a gold mine for the industry because they had mandatory markets. Kids had effectively to get vaccinated to go to school and no liability. All they could do was make a profit. But the legal system does work sometimes. And in the context of COVID and the so-called COVID vaccine. There's just been a ruling, I think, by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals that has said COVID vaccine is not a vaccine. It doesn't protect against disease and it doesn't stop transmission. Ergo, it is not a vaccine. Now, once it's not a vaccine, by ruling of the court, it's not covered by the indemnity. It's not covered by the government protecting the industry. Suddenly, they're on their own. And that really raises some very interesting legal possibilities that is for litigation in this country. So, we'll see what happens. But there will be every effort by the government to side with the pharmaceutical industry to prevent them being sued, I'm quite sure, because that's what happened. But let's hope that the judges see it differently. I just want to end off on people's response to you because you were maligned, attacked. The media tried to discredit you. You then moved to the US. You lost your medical license. But these films you're putting out, they tell a compelling story. Tell us about how you feel these films have woken people up, maybe in a way that back whenever this happened to you 25 years ago, the opening was not there for the same ability to win people over. The opening does seem to be here now, maybe because of COVID, maybe people are more aware, maybe because of alternative media. But tell us about the message you're putting out in these films and kind of the response you're getting. Thing well really the films are made in a way that they're entirely up to the protocol seven, these were entirely factual documentary films and so vax for example if there'd been any word of a lie, if we'd got something wrong, we would have we've accused these scientists at the CDC of the worst sort of humanitarian crime. Their job was to protect these children they did completely the opposite. The hypocrisy goes way beyond what we've seen before and so if there had been a problem. We would have been sued to the moon and back again and there wasn't and they why because they know that it's true. And that's a very powerful thing and the same comes now with protocol 7 even though it's a narrative feature film. If there was something in that film that was defamatory of Merck, then they would come after us. They may well do because they're big and rich and powerful, certainly far more powerful than we are. But that's not a reason. Not to get the story out. My commitment is, my duty is to the public, not to Merck or to the government or indeed to the whistle-blower, but to the public who are being harmed. And so never make a decision based in fear. This is something I've learned over the years. If the story has merit, if it's honest, if it's true, if it has integrity, then you get it out there and, you know, let the cards fall where they may. Yeah completely. I want to ask you about funding, because it's everything costs money. It is actually, it takes a lot of work not only finance but expertise and research to put anything like this out and you know you're going up against an industry that will attack you in any opening any any chink in your armour. Was it difficult to actually raise funding to put these films together? Initially, it was. You know, this is my fifth film, and initially it was difficult, because people said, well, you're a physician. You know, what are you doing making films? Now they say, they're much more inclined to say, you've proven you can do it. Get on and make the next one. It's not easy, particularly in the current climate, I mean, Hollywood itself is in the doldrums; filmmaking, but the people still want meaningful films they want films that count films like Sound of Freedom and others that they really mean something that are worth going to the movie theatres to watch. And so that's the kind of film that we're making and hopefully we'll be able to continue to do it. I just can ask you about the last last thing about those who want to be part of what's happening, supporting the film as it comes out. I mean, how do they play a part? They can go, obviously, to the website, protocol7.movie, make sure and follow that, and they can follow your Twitter. But if they want to say, actually, I believe this message, it's so true, I have friends, family, actually suffering side effects, not only MMR, but across the board, and I want to make sure this message gets out. How can they play a part in doing that? One thing they can do, I mean, if they're immensely rich, they can fund the next film. If they're not, then they can help. People can help by going to the website and clicking on Pay It Forward. And this is a way of, we saw it with Sound of Freedom. It was very successful, a way of providing tickets for people who might not otherwise be able to afford a ticket to go and watch the movie, or for people who might not be inclined otherwise to go. In other words if there if there is an incentive to get a free ticket they may go and then be persuaded. And so it's a way of helping other people to access the film. When they might not otherwise be able to or be inclined to do that so pay it forward is a very useful device. And of course on the website you can pass on the trailer and make sure people watch that and get ready for it. Please do. Now, the success of the film comes down to the public. And that means, you know, your listeners, your viewers. So, we're very, very grateful for any help in that respect. And Sound of Freedom did that to a degree we hadn't seen before. And I encourage the viewers and listeners to do the same for Protocol 7. Dr. Andrew Wakefield, it is an honour to have you on and someone who I read all the stuff. In the late 90s and probably believed a lot of it that uh how times change and it's great to have you on and thank you for what you're doing on getting the message out on the link between the pharmaceutical industry and side effects. Well thank you so much. My pleasure thank you for having me on.

It all comes down to this! Episode 12 of Season 6 of the 104 Sports Report has the four teams continue their push to the end of the season. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows discuss the implications of Oswego Baseball and Men's and Women's Lacrosse in the SUNYAC playoffs. The hosts preview the games ahead and tease the final episode of the semester. The 104 Sports Report gives you the latest on all things Lakers Sports. Twitter: @GonianMMD & @104SportsReport

LET US RANT! Episode 11 of Season 6 of the 104 Sports Report has the four teams on different tracks to end their season. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows create some noise as they get to rant and voice their opinions. The hosts highlight the emergence of the women's and men's Lacrosse teams and their reactions to how the teams on the diamond competed over the weekend. The 104 Sports Report gives you the latest on all things Lakers Sports. Twitter: @GonianMMD & @104SportsReport

Let the Lakers COOK! Episode 10 of Season 6 of the 104 Sports Report has all the analysis you need for all four spring sports as they are on hot streaks. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows break down their thoughts and reactions to the team's recent success and give their predictions for what's to come on Laker Turf and the diamond. The 104 Sports Report gives you the latest on all things Lakers Sports. Twitter: @GonianMMD & @104SportsReport

A stick and a glove might just lead to a spring roundup. Episode 9 of Season 6 of the 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all four spring teams including hot streaks from Women's and Men's Lacrosse along with the Baseball team sweeping Fredonia. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows discuss the hot streaks along with the cold streak of the Oswego Softball team at 3-11-1. The hosts give their analysis and new hot takes that they hope to serve them well going into next week. The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things Lakers sports. Twitter: @GonianMMD / @104SportsReport

Laker Turf has some new and exciting teams in 2023! Episode 8 of Season 6 of the 104 Sports Report discusses the early success of both Laker lacrosse teams and analyzes the recent struggles of the teams on the diamond. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows give their thoughts on where they all these teams can go this season with elements like Laker Oven and Laker Rundown. The hosts give their predictions and reason why this could be “The Greatest Show on Laker Turf”. The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things lakers sports. Twitter: @GonianMMD

Welcome to the spring sports season at Oswego! Episode 7 of Season 6 of the 104 Sports Report wraps up the Men's Basketball season and transitions to the spring season of Oswego Athletics. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows discuss the four teams Men's and Women's Lacrosse, Baseball, and Softball with updates on their seasons so far. The hosts preview the season's for each team and give their analysis and predictions going forward. The 104 Sports Report gives you the latest on all things Lakers sports. Twitter: @GonianMMD

Two teams are out, and one remains in Port City. Episode 6 of Season 6 of the 104 Sports Report recaps the jam-packed weekend of Oswego Men's Basketball hosting an NCAA Pod and the Oswego Men's Hockey team hosting a SUNYAC Championship. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows collect their thoughts after the back-and-forth weekend between basketball and hockey and how it was a bittersweet ending in Oswego. The hosts will discuss the Women's Hockey loss against Cortland in the NEWHL Semifinals a couple of weeks ago along with talking about where Men's Hockey goes from here and how Oswego Basketball can stay alive in the Sweet 16 against the defending national champions. The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things Lakers Sports.  Twitter: @GonianMMD

It's officially playoff week for Oswego winter sports. Episode 4 of Season 6 of the 104 Sports Report brings you two Laker interviews, Men's Basketball senior guard Devin Green and Women's Hockey sophomore forward Ashlyn McGrath. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows sat down with both athletes to discuss the journey of this season along with previewing what to see from this weekend. The hosts go into the mindset of the players as it is officially win or go home. The 104 Sports report brings you the latest on all things Lakers sports. Twitter: @GonianMMD

Nothing like a must-win weekend for Oswego Athletics. Season 6 Episode 3 of the 104 Sports Report talks more about the four major winter sports as the seasons come down to the wire and recaps the trip to SUNY Morrisville last Wednesday. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows break down how Men's Hockey and Men's Basketball need to sweep this weekend to clinch a number 1 seed in the SUNYAC conference. The hosts will discuss the preview of the Women's Hockey game against Cortland next weekend and how the Women's Basketball team defied expectations this season. The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things Lakers Sports!

The backs are against the wall for the Lakers! Season 6 Episode 2 of the 104 Sports Report introduces new elements and recaps the four major winter sports seasons heading to the finish line. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows discuss the Men's Hockey momentum to the playoffs while the women's hockey team is coming off a three-game win streak. The hosts give their hot takes and analysis on the red-hot men's basketball team and talk about the uphill climb the women's basketball team has to do to make a late playoff push. The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things Lakers sports.       ‘ Twitter: @GonianMMD

Another episode of the 104 Sports Report has been released which highlighted by an interview with Oswego State men's basketball head coach Jason Leone. Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows touch on the Oswego State winter sports and talk about the breaking news from Laker Hall. Check out the latest from the guys out of The Oswegonian office. Twitter: @GonianMMD

104 takes on 2023! Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows give their mid semester break update on Oswego Athletics. The hosts recap the men's hockey and basketball new year's tournaments this past weekend while giving their thoughts on their seasons moving forward. The women's basketball team is rolling to a 10-2 start while the women's hockey team took a tough loss on Tuesday to Amherst College and look to get back to their success they had this past fall. Big things are coming for the 104 Sports Report in Season 6, your main source for all things Lakers sports. Initially Record: Jan. 3, 2023 Twitter: @GonianMMD

The Season 5 finale is HERE! Episode 8 of Season 5 of the 104 Sports Report recaps the red hot starts to all four winter sports teams for Oswego. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows talk about how the Men's Basketball team can rebound from the loss against Nazareth College and the 7-0 start for Sean Pinkerton and the Oswego Women's Basketball team. The hosts will give their thoughts and opinions on the Oswego Men's Hockey team as they look ahead to a big weekend along with the Women's Hockey team looking to extend their win streak to 8. The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things Lakers Sports. Initially Record: Dec. 1, 2022 Twitter: @GonianMMD

Buckle up for a BIG episode! Episode 7 of Season 5 of the 104 Sports Report recaps the biggest weekend in Oswego Athletics. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows transition their discussion to winter as the lake wind is in full effect in Oswego. They will recap Whiteout Weekend, Women's Hockey 1st win of the season,  and the start of Men's and Women's Basketball. The hosts got a chance to sit down with Oswego sophomore goalkeeper Perri Anderson to give her thoughts and reactions on the Women's Soccer season. The 104 Sports Report bring you the latest on all things Lakers Sports. Initially Recorded on Nov. 9, 2022 The Oswegonian Multimedia Department Twitter: @GonianMMD

Episode 6 of Season 5 of the 104 Sports Report discusses the two SUNYAC playoff matchups for Oswego Women's Soccer and Volleyball as the 2022 Fall Sports season comes to a close. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows give their thoughts and analysis about what these teams did this year and what they can do for next season. The Oswegonian basketball beat writer Spencer Bates sat down with the hosts to discuss the upcoming season for Men's Basketball. As Whiteout Weekend is only a couple days away, the hosts give their predictions and players to watch for the big matchups against Plattsburgh State and SUNY Potsdam. The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things Lakers Sports.  Initially Recorded on Nov. 2, 2022 The Oswegonian Multimedia Department Twitter: @GonianMMD

Episode 5 of Season 5 of the 104 Sports Report discusses the playoff preview for Women's Soccer and Volleyball and wrapping up thoughts about fall sports for Oswego Athletics. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows give their thoughts and predictions on the playoffs for the two teams and what they expect from Field Hockey and Men's Soccer has in store for next season. A quick preview of the upcoming hockey matchups and more! The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things Lakers Sports. Oswegonian Multimedia Department Twitter: @GonianMMD Initially Recorded on Oct. 27, 2022

Episode 4 of Season 5 of the 104 Sports Report discusses the conclusion of the fall sports season at SUNY Oswego as four teams look for a late-season playoff push. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows break down the last matchups and playoff predictions for Women's Volleyball, Men's and Women's Soccer, and Field Hockey. With Women's and Men's Hockey starting their season next week, a quick preview of what's to come for the athletes on the ice. The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things Lakers Sports. Oswegonian Multimedia Department Twitter: @GonianMMD Initially Recorded on Oct. 20, 2022

Hockey season is upon us at Lake Ontario! Episode 3 of Season 5 of the 104 Sports Report features Zac Case and Thomas Turgeon of the Oswegonian Hockey Podcast for a sit-down interview to discuss all things Oswego Hockey ahead of two preseason home matchups! Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows also break down the tough weekend in Oswego Athletics for Fall Sports as we gear up for some teams to make a playoff push. The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things Lakers Sports. Oswegonian Multimedia Twitter Account: @GonianMMD 104 Sports Report Twitter Account: @104SportsReport

Episode 2 of Season 5 of the 104 Sports Report takes a deep dive into Fall Sports as winter is around the corner. Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows break down their weekly recap of what's happening in Oswego Athletics. A look at the Volleyball team and their historic season so far along with Men's Soccer as they try to make a late-season playoff run. They will also give their analysis of the Field Hockey team and their SUNYAC struggles and wrap up with Women's Soccer and the success they've had so far. The 104 Sports Report brings you the latest on all things Lakers Sports.

The 104 Sports Report is back! New Hosts Alex Brooks and Brian Burrows take a look at what's been going on at Laker Turf. A deep dive into the men's soccer team, how their season has gone so far, and what to look forward to as SUNYAC play opens tomorrow. They also take quick looks at the women's soccer team and the field hockey team. Don't want to miss the start of a new era for the 104 Sports Report!

They went to Tokyo with the dreams of being Olympic medalists. Years of training and sacrifice all paid off as these USA Shooting members made their dreams a reality. Join this special episode of the “It's Federal Season” podcast to hear the compelling stories of Olympic silver medalist Kayle Browning, bronze medalist Brian Burrows and gold medalist Amber English. Federal Premium Ammunition (https://www.federalpremium.com/)

They went to Tokyo with the dreams of being Olympic medalists. Years of training and sacrifice all paid off as these USA Shooting members made their dreams a reality. Join this special episode of the “It's Federal Season” podcast to hear the compelling stories of Olympic silver medalist Kayle Browning, bronze medalist Brian Burrows and gold medalist Amber English. Federal Premium Ammunition (https://www.federalpremium.com/)

Join Kara McKinney as she sits down with Vikas Bajaj, Raymond Ibrahim, Brian Burrows, Dr. Stephany Powell, and John Rossomando to talk about the issues of the day

Cutting emissions now and in the near future could still save humanity from climate catastrophe, but it won't save us from the climate changes we're already experiencing, according to a new United Nations report. Plus, author Amanda Ripley talks about how certain issues, such as climate change, become politicized and can lead to discussion surrounding those issues becoming toxic. And, owners of sport fishing boats say an effort to improve the state's air quality could cost them their businesses. Also, Brian Burrows, who grew up in Fallbrook, talks about winning the bronze medal in trap shooting. Finally, an outdoor film series will feature the best screwball comedy sparring matches.

Crews tried to take advantage of cooler conditions over the weekend as they continue to battle the massive Dixie Fire burning in Northern California. The fire has burned more than 489,000 acres. Brian Burrows, who grew up in Northern San Diego County, took home a bronze medal in the mixed team trapshooting event at the Tokyo Olympics. He spoke to The California Report about his time in Japan during the Summer Games. Guest: Brian Burrows, Member of the U.S. Olympic Shooting Team  Faced with a national homelenssess crisis that grew worse during the pandemic, cities across the country are opening so-called “tiny home” villages for the unhoused. The California Report visited one in Los Angeles County. Reporter: Saul Gonzalez, The California Report

Brian Burrows is a sport shooter for Team USA and the owner of Ironwood Axe Throwing located in downtown Denton, Texas. https://ironwoodaxethrowing.com/ https://www.instagram.com/ironwoodaxethrowing/ https://www.facebook.com/ironwoodaxethrowing/ https://www.facebook.com/brian.burrows.9210 https://www.teamusa.org/usa-shooting/athletes/Brian-Burrows https://dentonrc.com/news/denton/ironwood-axe-throwing-owner-finally-going-for-tokyo-gold-with-usa-shooting-team/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Burrows

Guest Sara Paisner, Dartmouth '96, had a teacher who brought the sciences alive for her early in life. She was drawn to chemistry in particular, with its explosions and crystals and what seemed like magic. It seemed a logical path to study chemistry in college and go directly into a PhD program. But along the way, she learned that academic research wasn't what she thought it would be. She chose her postdoc someplace that would put her close to industry—specifically the Research Triangle of North Carolina. She began her industry work creating the materials that would go into microhips. And every job seemed to get her closer and closer to the customer, which she loved. But she discovered the irony of educational attainment: Nobody thinks a PhD is well suited for the business world.Despite having three small children at the time, she decided to pursue an MBA. She found that marketing and product strategy—particularly for scientific companies—let her meld her skills perfectly and a number of companies thought so, too. But at some point, as much as she enjoyed being part of another company's team, an offer to buy a business that she had long declined resurfaced one more time and she seized the opportunity to run her own thing.In this episode, find out from Sara how changing other people's minds about you can be is as important as changing your own mind about where opportunity lives.…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestDr. Sara Paisner is owner and president of Synoptic Products, a medical products distribution company based in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area. She is also an avid sailor, martial arts enthusiast, and mother.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Guest Jeff Botelho, Dartmouth '96, had always been interested in languages. In college, he studied history and Spanish. When he studied abroad and realized that his interest and skill in learning languages could open the world to him, he knew he wanted a career that would allow him to use those skills. He began working in consumer goods in Gillette's Latin American group, first making his Spanish-speaking colleagues in Boston look good and then working for the company in Mexico. For as much as he was happy living in another culture and as fluent as he'd become, he found the Mexico City too big and so went back to his home town in Massachusetts.He wanted to use his Spanish fluency, so he taught the language in Massachusetts schools. In time, he found he wasn't actually speaking Spanish all that much and wanted to use his language skills in a more functional way. He went to law school and decided that he could use his languages practicing immigration law. He worked at a firm for a year but quickly realized that he could do much better at a more reasonable cost for his removal and deportation defense work. He started his own firm in 2009.Just as language provides a connection to his clients day to day, learning Portuguese provided him with a deeper connection with generations of Botelhos (who had come from the Azores). There also came a time when his faith—which he hadn't been very aware of for quite a while—became another way to forge a deeper connection to others, to himself, and to the greater world around him.In this episode, find out from Jeff how listening to the language of the heart and having a little faith can help guide you…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestJeff Botelho is an immigration attorney who has been practicing in his own firm in Hollywood, Florida, since 2009. He's fluent in Spanish and English and is also accomplished in his family's own Portuguese.   Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian BurrowsFind more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com 

Guest Maryam Kia-Keating, Dartmouth '96, was keen to help students find their voice and build supportive communities as an undergraduate advisor and area coordinator in the residence halls. And she could see a life full of this sort of work with broader populations. But with a psychology major and volunteer activities such as sexual assault peer counselor, the honor code committee, and psychiatric care work, she kept having to confront the reactive end of the spectrum of care, where things had already gone bad and helpers were having to try to make things better. She found her natural inclination, however, was to start from a place of strength and instead think about building stronger communities so that the bad stuff doesn't happen in the first place. She found a graduate program that helped foster this idea and then held tight to it (if quietly) through her clinical psychology training.She began to focus her career on the idea of resilience and concentrated on a group she understood deeply from her own lived experience: refugee communities.  Again, she found that giving voice to others yields stronger policy outcomes and heathier communities, thus she committed to using a community-based participatory research methodology in her work with both refugee groups and young people. Through the work, she has found vulnerabilities and strengths that she knew, from experience, were there all along.In this episode, find out from Maryam how giving people voice and understanding their resilience can be the key to strengthening community…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. Bonus: Maryam also gives us thoughts for tapping our own resilience for the good of the young people around us. About This Episode's GuestMaryam Kia-Keating is a professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara, in its school of Education's Department of Counseling, Clinical, and School Psychology. Her scholarship and activism centers around resilience and empowers individuals, families, schools, and communities through participatory action and human centered design. She is also a Licensed Clinical Psychologist and a mom of two. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Guest Rob Hamilton, Dartmouth '96, was already a musician before entering college and knew he wanted to major in music. But he also wanted to go deeper, understanding how and why sound affects us as humans. So double-majored with cognitive science. He also found his way to the Bregman Electronic Music Studio—not widely known outside of the electronic music scene, but considered a powerhouse by students of the genre due to its development of the Synclavier the first commercially available portable digital synthesizer.Even though Rob loved writing and playing electronic music it didn't seem that there was much of a commercial future in that, so he turned to consulting and eventually leaped into the dot-com start-up world, where he was able to pick up coding by doing (despite being a bad computer science student in school). When the boom became a bust, he was actually happy to leave the corporate world and turned back to music.He jumped into the world of academia to pursue electronic music but it wasn't the easiest of roads. And in the middle, he got pulled back to the start-up world just as smart phones came on the market and the app scene was blowing up. Developing sound-based apps, he was tapping into the creativity of both his technical and musical sides, but the market-driven lifestyle just didn't seem to fit.//In this episode, find out from Rob how interweaving interests and playing by your own rules often leads to the sweetest music…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestRob Hamilton is Associate Professor of Music and Media at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI), where he's been since 2015, composing, performing, researching, and designing software for interactive soundscapes. He holds a Ph.D. in Computer-based Music Theory and Acoustics and an M.A. in Music, Science and Technology from Stanford University's Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics (CCRMA) in the Department of Music, as well as a M.M. in Computer Music Composition from the Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com 

Guest Josh Marks, Dartmouth '96, remembers his college days as being marked by a self-unawareness and a happenstance that exposed him to interesting people, interesting extra-curriculars, and interesting academic pursuits. While it made for an enriching college experience, it didn't set him up for an obvious path after graduation.After a handful of jobs that were good enough, and one that paid that for an MBA, he was helping a friend look for a teaching job when serendipity struck again. Looking at jobs for his friend at his alma mater, the Hackley School, he saw an advertisement for a financial officer. He realized what he hadn't loved about consulting was that he couldn't see the outcomes of the process improvement suggestions. Within a school environment, he could make strides to improve processes and see the benefits. He also found a sense of community and a greater purpose in helping to transform the lives of young people.On this episode, find out from Josh how the unexpected, and seeing things with new perspective, can provide unforeseen bonuses…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley.About This Episode's GuestJosh Marks has spent over 15 years in business operations roles within the independent schools sector. He now serves as the Chief Financial Officer of LREI, The Little Red School House & Elisabeth Irwin High School in New York City's Greenwich Village. He also still plays the bagpipes, serving as Dartmouth's official piper, presiding over commencements and homecomings since our college days. Tune in for a special Roads Taken episode on June 9—25 years to the day of our graduation—to hear more about that and for a special treat from Piper Josh. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com  

Guest Tracy Canard Goodluck, Dartmouth ’96, is a member of the Oneida Nation of Wisconsin and also of Mvskoke Creek heritage and was raised as a strong Native woman in her urban communities of Utah and New Mexico. Freshman year of college illuminated how socio-economic disparities were affecting her beloved Native American communities, and the activist in her got fired up and, after a few terms away to process it all, came back to campus committed to do something about it. After a job in the Hanover After-School Program she knew education would be one route to impact and received a fellowship for graduate study in education. She made sure to be near Native communities to learn about the systems that empowered and challenged success.  Wanting to test a style of education that championed culture instead of removing it, she helped start the Native American Community Academy (NACA) in Albuquerque, New Mexico. When she realized, however, that in telling the students to follow their dreams she was actually saying what she needed to hear herself, she applied to law school to pave her road to public service in the federal government, where the majority of tribal policy decisions are made.In this episode, find out from Tracy how heeding the fire in the soul sometimes leads to the place where you can do the most good.....on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestTracy Canard Goodluck is a member of the Oneida Nation of Wisconsin and also of Mvskoke Creek heritage. Beginning her career as an educator, she was one of the co-founders of the Native American Community Academy (NACA) in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She now is an advocate for Native American communities throughout the United States in her roles within the federal government. She recently joined the White House as a Policy Advisor for Native Affairs in the Domestic Policy Council, staffed there on a detail from the Department of Interior where she is the Deputy Director of the Secretary’s Indian Water Rights Office. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian BurrowsFind more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Part one of a two-part series talking with shooters seeking gold on the world's biggest stage. USA Shooting men's trap team members Derrick Mein and Brian Burrows join the podcast to discuss the excitement of the event, the training, and their expectations as they ramp up for July's Olympic Competition. Federal Premium Ammunition (https://www.federalpremium.com/)

Part one of a two-part series talking with shooters seeking gold on the world’s biggest stage. USA Shooting men’s trap team members Derrick Mein and Brian Burrows join the podcast to discuss the excitement of the event, the training, and their expectations as they ramp up for July’s Olympic Competition. Federal Premium Ammunition (https://www.federalpremium.com/)

Guest Taran Lent, Dartmouth '96, knew he wanted to study engineering, even if he didn't see himself becoming an engineering. Learning how to scope a problem, build a toolkit of tactics and encyclopedia of methodologies, and solve real-world problems appealed to him. As he juggled the coursework and his role as captain of the varsity football team, he found a way to put the engineering mindset to action: He approached a slew of Hanover-area eateries—including the old favorites EBA's, Panda House, Lou's—and built a system that allowed college students to use pre-paid cards in college town eateries, something absolutely new in the late 90s. When corporate recruiting found him with a number of offers at the big consulting firms, he decided to turn them down and to go all in on his business.In time, the business grew beyond Hanover to other campuses and Taran's company also took over Dartmouth College’s on-campus card system. When he realized he could solve problems at scale, he ended up building enterprise-wide payment processing systems that were ahead of their time and that ultimately paid off.In this episode, find out from Taran how using longitudinal inquiry can tell us a lot about how sometimes you just need to pay attention to see how you can make things better and more efficient....on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley.About This Episode's GuestTaran Lent has been building and operating payment technology companies his entire professional career from the Hanover Green Card back in the day to his current role as Vice President of Product Development at Transact Campus. When he's not processing your tuition payments, he enjoys windsurfing and spending time with his wife and two kids and extended family in Texas. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Mark Gilbreath is CEO of LiquidSpace, a leader in hybrid and work-from-anywhere workplace transformation. In this episode, MBO Partners speaks with Mark about what productive work environments look like, why distributed work can be good for both companies and workers—whether employees or independents—and what work culture has to do with it.Mark talks about how the pandemic accelerated the shift from “the orthodoxy of presenteeism” to a “work-from-anywhere” workplace and how companies must look along a few axes of office space suitability to get the transformation right. He speaks on the suitability of the physical environment itself – beyond the binary of work and home – as well as the nature of the employee's role in the company and the nature of the work being done. He also discusses how companies that are now undertaking workplace transformation are fixated on creating great employee experiences and he talks specifically about how company culture can thrive even in non-centralized workplaces. About This Episode's GuestMark Gilbreath is CEO of LiquidSpace, a leader in hybrid and work-from-anywhere workplace transformation where workers can access an online office marketplace and enterprise leaders can access their own workplace management platform.About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com. Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows.For more episodes, visit mbopartners.com/state-of-independence/podcast/. MBO Partners © 2021

Guest Beth (Jordan) Mattingly, Dartmouth ’96, had thought she wanted to be a neurosurgeon so that she could investigate how and why people ended up being different before and after some unexpected event. But when she stumbled upon the field of human geography and how one’s location can have outsized impacts on opportunities, motivations and behaviors she was hooked. Ever more interested in the more expansive questions and implications of sociology, she pursued graduate work in that field and found new ways to investigate the before and after questions that had always piqued her interest. She focused her research and policy-informing work on poverty alleviation and improving family outcomes and continues this work today in her current role with the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston.Of course, this all happened after she met classmate David Mattingly ’96 and they married, both intent on centering their lives on their partnership and parenthood. With five children, there has been a lot of compromise and flexibility.In this episode, find out from Beth how using longitudinal inquiry can tell us a lot about how things change and need to change for the better...on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestBeth Mattinglyhas had a research career that has focused on families, poverty, inequality and how to make things better. She currently serves as Assistant Vice President for Research & Communications, Regional and Community Outreach at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston. NB: The views expressed in this episode are those of Beth and not necessarily those of the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, the Federal Reserve system, or its board of governors. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Joseph Fuller is Professor of Management Practice at the Harvard Business School, where he oversees the Managing the Future of Work Project and focuses his research on the changing nature of work and the evolution of the C-suite. He was the founder and longtime CEO of The Monitor Group, the global strategy consulting firm, now Monitor Deloitte. In this episode, MBO Partners speaks with Professor Fuller about what, in this time of rapid change, the term “the future of work” actually means and how we can apply his learnings to workforce design and transformation. Professor Fuller also talks about what he sees as the biggest challenges facing today's CEO and organizational management and how many of those top requirements for organizational success involve changes to aspects of talent development and sourcing, including contingent work; digitalization and decentralization; diversity and inclusion; globalization and the labor supply chain. He discusses a recent BCG and HBS Future of Work study on the topic of contingent work and discuss how, in the future, more and more organizations will have needs for high-skill contingent talent for business-critical assignments – and how this is shifting the power equation in favor of the supply side of the talent equation. He also provides a look at the higher education sector and discuss the role of credentialization in talent acquisition. Citing his soon-to-be-published research, Professor Fuller talks about the ways AI is poised to improve and expand talent profile of companies in the future – a profile that will begin to also include the contingent worker to a greater degree. About This Episode's GuestJoseph Fuller is Professor of Management Practice at the Harvard Business School, where he focuses his research on the changing nature of work and the evolution of the C-suite. He was the founder and longtime CEO of The Monitor Group, the global strategy consulting firm, now Monitor Deloitte. At HBS, he oversees with Professor Bill Kerr, the Managing the Future of Work project; the pair co-hosts a podcast of the same name. Research Mentioned in This EpisodeFuller, Joseph B., Manjari Raman, Allison Bailey, and Nithya Vaduganathan. "Building the On-Demand Workforce." (pdf) White Paper, Harvard Business School and Boston Consulting Group (BCG), November 2020. Fuller, Joseph B., and Manjari Raman. "Dismissed by Degrees: How Degree Inflation Is Undermining U.S. Competitiveness and Hurting America's Middle Class." (pdf) Report, October 2017. (Published by Accenture, Grads of Life, Harvard Business School.) About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ ​mbopartners.com. Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows. For more episodes, visit mbopartners.com/state-of-independence/podcast/. MBO Partners © 2021

Guest Liz Rawson was biologically-minded, but wasn't pre-med in college. The idea of doctoring to people just didn't appeal. Once she realized what was keeping her away wasn't the medicine part but the people part, she set her sights on veterinary school, even if she had to play catch-up a little. She got the work experience and extra training she needed in Boston to be able to apply and enrolled at Tufts. In school, she found what she didn't love (farm animals) and what she did (surgery), but had to stay scrappy to realize the dream.Her surgical residence ultimately led her to Florida, where she has practiced for nearly two decades. Her tendency to keep her head down and her eye on her career played out in two interesting and different ways over the years—once to get her through things and another against all odds. Though her career has concentrated her surgery work on cats and dogs, she most resembles the Energizer bunny, just going and going, no matter the circumstances.In this episode, find out from Liz how sometimes just getting through is the way ahead...on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestLiz Rawson is a board-certified small animal surgeon who spent nearly two decades in the hospital setting and now works in private practice in South Florida. She’s going to call us the next time she cares for a gator. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com 

Paul Estes, the author of The Gig Mindset and currently the Chief Community Officer at Mural, is a workforce influencer thinking about how to keep the human at the center of the SaaS industry. In this episode, MBO Partners speaks with Paul about how workers and organizations are transforming themselves using gig economy strategies, as well as how organizations can harness the power of their own communities of on-demand experts to help create customer-centric solutions. Paul talks about his book The Gig Mindset and the TIDE concept of taskifying, identifying, delegating, and evolving to power an independent career. He also talks about his own transition from independent work back to joining the creative SaaS company Mural as its first Chief Community Officer. He talks about the connection between a software-driven economy and the need for in-demand experts. He also touches on outcome-driven work, the companies that do that well, and approaches that both enterprises and independents can take to optimize work. About This Episode's GuestPaul Estes is an unstoppable advocate for the talent economy, dedicated to creating opportunity for everyone through a thoughtful marriage of technology and human talent. He has held leadership roles at Dell, Amazon, and Microsoft, where he led a team of progressive HR, procurement, and legal trailblazers to launch Microsoft's Gig Economy freelance program. Still keeping an active “gig mindset” of his own, he has recently joined Mural as its Chief Community Officer. He is the author of The Gig Mindset.About MBO Partners® MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com. Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows. For more episodes, visit mbopartners.com/state-of-independence/podcast/. MBO Partners © 2021

Sharon Kan is the co-founder and CEO of Pepperlane, the organization helping mothers turn their skills and ideas into businesses that fit into their lives. She's also a serial entrepreneur whose startups have been acquired by Oracle, Microsoft, and Barnes and Noble. In this episode MBO Partners speaks with Sharon about how she is shaking up the patriarchal system of work and supporting a 20-million strong market of talented moms that has the power to reshape the small business economy.Sharon talks about how denying our full identities at work—leaving the motherhood label at the door—adversely affected economic output even before the “She-cession” brought about by COVID-19 put many women out of work. She notes, however, how the current situation has also sparked great creativity among entrepreneurial mothers. She discusses how most professional gender gaps are motherhood gaps and the role that independent work plays in closing them. She also talks about the ways that organizations looking to educate and support new sectors of talent can work together to close entrepreneurial knowledge gaps and how a few pointed policies could aid working mothers and society as a whole.About This Episode's GuestSharon Kan is co-founder and CEO of Pepperlane, the organization helping mothers turn their skills and ideas into businesses that fit into their lives. She's also a serial entrepreneur whose startups have been acquired by Oracle, Microsoft, Infor and Barnes and Noble. Additionally, she co-founded WIN, the Women Innovating Now Lab at Babson College to help female entrepreneurs start their businesses. About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com. Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows. For more episodes, visit mbopartners.com/state-of-independence/podcast/. MBO Partners © 2021

Guest John Barros journeyed to college from the Roxbury neighborhood of Boston and tried to become the best version of himself by participating in numerous activities and leadership roles. He went into the business world at an insurance company right after graduation, thinking that law school could help him further hone his worldview and the best way to be of service. Service came looking for him, though, in the form of a call from home.The Dudley Street Neighborhood Initiative, a community development organization for which John had volunteered since before school, was in need of an interim executive director and he was asked to apply. They asked him to stay and, in his thirteen years at the helm, organization built affordable housing and small business space, designed new schools to reengage the community around them, and ended up creating the largest urban land trust in America. When the city’s mayor decided not to run again, he heard another call: this time to run. Though that campaign did not lead to the position he sought, he was asked to be the city’s chief of economic development and now seeks the mayoral position once more.In this episode, find out from John how returning to what you know and being comfortable with playing the long game can set you up to make true impact, just when home seems ready for you…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestJohn Barros, a lifelong resident of Boston’s Roxbury and Dorchester neighborhoods, previously served as the Executive Director of the Dudley Street Neighborhood Initiative for more than a dozen years and the Chief of Economic Development for the city until recently when he made the announcement that he is running to be the next mayor of Boston in November 2021. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Liz Elam is the founder of the Global Coworking Unconference Community—GCUC—the largest coworking conference provider in the world. She's also a consultant and a leader in the flexible work space, studying both the design and the structure of the industry. In addition, Liz is a card-carrying futurist and popular coworking podcast host. In this episode, MBO Partners speaks with Liz about the roots of the coworking trend and why coworking and community are so important for the health and well-being of the future workforce. Liz talks about how COVID-19 has accelerated the discussion about flexible work environments but has also potentially endangered workers through the isolation brought on by work-at-home arrangements. She also speaks from the lens of a futurist about what the workplace of 2045 might look like and how individuals and companies can make today's workplace work as well. She discusses the ways that coworking spaces can benefit workers in all stages and configurations of work and how companies should be looking toward coworking spaces as strategic aids in managing the needs of both their employees and independent workers.About This Episode's GuestLiz Elam is the founder of the Global Coworking Unconference Community—GCUC—the largest coworking conference provider in the world. She's also a consultant and a leader in the flexible work space, studying both the design and the structure of the industry. She also hosts the GCUC coworking podcast. About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com. Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows. For more episodes, visit mbopartners.com/state-of-independence/podcast/. MBO Partners © 2021

Guest Dave Kramer stayed in Hanover after graduation to complete the teacher preparatory program and answered a classified ad to teach in Colombia. He headed to Cali with a mind to reinvent himself but anticipated honing his Spanish and having an adventure. Finding both his life mate and an appreciation for the environment there, he became a passionate advocate for not only the environment but also Colombia as a place and people. But continued unrest at the turn of the century made his wife anxious to get her gringo back home, thus beginning a recurring theme of “back to Boston.”Dave found his way at a number of environmental organizations, building networks and connections as he went, including through his cohort at Harvard’s Kennedy School. A move to Austin allowed him to branch out on his own, consulting for a variety of organizations, but always keeping an eye to projects that support the people and environment of Colombia.In this episode, find out from Dave how being an idealist who's a match-maker for ideas can sometimes spark what you need for your next adventures…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley,About This Episode's GuestDave Kramer is an environmental generalist who has skills in grassroots organizing, experiential education, and supporting the next generation of global change makers to reimagine our world. He is currently the program director for Planet Texas 2050, coordinating interdisciplinary climate change mitigation and adaptation initiatives at UT Austin. But if you're heading to Colombia for a visit and need a guide, Dave's your man. He is also the founder of the Colombia Rising Project. Follow them on Twitter @RisingColombia.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Diane Mulcahy, independent consultant and advisor to Fortune 500 and startup company clients on the future of work, created the first MBA course in the country on the Gig Economy and used it to inform her best-selling book of the same name. In this epsidoe, MBO Partners, speaks with Diane about how the coronavirus pandemic has accelerated the Gig Economy and how the experience of the last year has both emphasized the benefits of a strong independent work economy and highlighted the need for improved labor policy. Diane talks about how gig work de-risks economic shocks for both the independent worker and the enterprises looking to be nimble in today's economy. She touches on how the last year has shaped our notions about flexibility and what a new digital nomadism might look like. She also speaks about how policies that helped protect independent workers during the pandemic can now set the stage for the extension of other protections that will further strengthen the independent economy. About This Episode's GuestDiane Mulcahy is a sought-after expert on the future of work and the gig economy. She also works independently as a consultant and advisor to Fortune 500 and startup company clients, and as a speaker, writer, and adjunct professor at Babson College, where she launched the first MBA course on the Gig Economy. The book that sprang from that course, The Gig Economy: The Complete Guide to Getting Better Work, Taking More Time Off, and Financing the Life You Want, is an Amazon best-seller and has been translated into five languages. In addition to her work in the Gig Economy, Diane has been a professional investor for the past 15 years. She is an Advisor to the Kauffman Foundation, where she manages the private equity and venture capital portfolio. About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com.Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows. For more episodes, visit mbopartners.com/state-of-independence/podcast/. MBO Partners © 2021

Guest Lisana Gabriel Brown started her career as a graphic designer but felt to constrained by how someone else thought things should look. An astute supervisor saw her technical skills and moved her into the world of IT. Though she had considered the corporate path “too buttoned up” in earlier days, she found that the corporate world—particularly banking—was the right fit and a progression of more and more technical roles led her into business continuity risk planning and disaster response.She did similar work in the health education industry, but the pace wasn’t fast enough to let her make the impact she wanted. But when she returned to the banking world, she also got the surprise of a baby on the way. Interestingly, it took a pandemic—which she was all too ready for her in job—to give her the work life balance she and her family were looking for.In this episode, find out from Lisana how sometimes making plans for the future isn’t foolproof and waiting it out is the thing to do …on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley.About This Episode's GuestLisana Gabriel Brown has had a long career in business continuity risk management, predominantly in banking IT and cybersecurity, most recently with MUFG Union Bank. She and her family now live in Charlotte, North Carolina. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Joe Mullings is founder, chairman, and CEO of The Mullings Group, the world's leading search firm in medtech, healthtech and the life sciences, as well as the founder of a number of other companies, including a production company and a start-up incubator. In this episode, MBO Partners speaks with Joe about his ideas about how the future of technology is already impacting the future of work and the future of search and how workers need to be in control of their own career and personal brand to stay competitive.Joe talks about how independent professionals have become a critical and in-demand part of the talent ecosystem due to the acceleration of the specialization of skills in specific verticals and industries and the convergence of technologies around service- and platform-based work. He speaks about how the expectation that learning is complete at the end of college is shortsighted for those launching a career and how a lifelong reskilling mindset is required for any worker today. He also talk about the need for talent to develop their subject matter expertise into thought leadership to the point of becoming a voice in their industry, using himself as an example of someone who has used the lessons of social media marketing to stake that claim in his own industry space.About This Episode's GuestJoe Mullings is founder, chairman, and CEO of The Mullings Group, the world's leading search firm in medtech, healthtech and the life sciences, as well as the founder of a number of other companies, including a production company and a start-up incubator. He is also the creator of TrueFuture TVand the TrueFuture docu-series, that takes audiences on a global search for incredible technology, interesting people, beautiful places and rich cultures.About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com. Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows. For more episodes, visit mbopartners.com/state-of-independence/podcast/.MBO Partners © 2021

Guest Amy Peller, Dartmouth '96, could always be counted on to find the fun in a moment, whether meeting people on the way to the snowboarding lessons or performing magic in the campus pub. Throughout her career in consumer marketing and brand management, she tried to always keep that sense of fun and joy.Some employers, such as Mattel (where she worked on products from water guns to Matchbox cars), made it easy.  Others, who wanted her to move too far from family or deal with layoffs, not so much.  Luckily, the skills she built at all of them allowed her to envision her own path, an entrepreneurial venture that some may say is for the dogs—a mobile dog grooming company.In this episode, find out from Amy how sometimes teaching dogs new tricks doesn’t require forgetting old ones…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley About This Episode's GuestAmy Peller is founder and president of Wag & Shine, a mobile dog grooming company in the greater New York metropolitan area. Find Amy and her grooming friends (including her Labradoodle and Chief Happiness Officer Benny Hana) at WagAndShine.com. You can follow Benny Hana on his official Instagram @bennyhanadoodle. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyEdited by Worth RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Guest Helene Sisti has always wanted to take in every experience life offers, whether in the classroom, on a field or on stage at an Aerosmith concert. Combining her love of sport with her interest in psychology, she found her way to sports psychology. But while pursuing a masters in kinesiology, an early class in neuroscience during opened her eyes to the world of research. She continued on for a PhD in neuroscience, looking specifically at the mind-body connection and how we learn.As all-season track athlete in college, she was unable to study abroad; so she made sure her postdoctoral experience included a stint in Europe. Along with the memories and souvenirs, though, she returned home with a case of burn-out and wasn’t sure that academia was for her. She tried adjunct teaching and then spent a couple years in consulting, but ultimately found her way back to neuroscience research with new perspective.// In this episode, find out from Helene how sometimes putting something on ice and then returning can be the healthiest thing on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestHelene Sisti is a neuroscience researcher. Being a lifelong athlete, she is most passionate about understanding the nature of the mind-body connection. She has examined the brain from multiple perspectives, ranging from cellular models to human brain imaging studies. While currently an assistant professor at Norwich University, she still tries to do it all, skiing, running, biking and keeping her eyes out for the next thing to try.Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyEdited by Worth RowleyMusic: Brian BurrowsFind more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com 

Guest Mark Griffin, Dartmouth '96, had two parents in the state department so had been used to lots of moves before boarding school in Austria. The promise of mountains and persuasive literature sealed the deal for Dartmouth. He loved the intellectual freedom the college afforded and he stumbled into philosophy to round out his genetic propensity toward government. Although he knew that public service was in his blood, he worried that the typical law career might pigeon-hole him. He read about applied policy and public administration and continued on for his masters before law school.After a couple of shorter lived experiences in the law, including in a public defender’s office, Mark stumbled again, this time into an area he’d known nothing about—campaign finance—and has made a career out of it.In this episode, find out from Mark how keeping your thinking broad and following connections ultimately helps you find your way on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestMark Griffin is Associate Counsel at the New York City Campaign Finance Board, where he has worked in a number of capacities for almost two decades. His career focus has been on political and administrative law, regulatory compliance and policy implementation. Mark keeps stumbling into good things. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Guest Monica Oberkofler Gorman, Dartmouth '96, had been accepted at Yale Law School and had earned a scholarship to study in Oxford, but her heart lay in public service work in DC so after graduation she took the opportunity of a White House internship—ill-timed, perhaps, given her shared name with another intern at that moment. And although she loved DC, she felt that she needed to see more of how the world worked before she would feel comfortable helping to shape policy. She went to Oxford and get both a masters in politics and stayed for a PhD (turning down Yale in the process).Knowing she still needed to learn more about the work of work, she hit the pavement looking for a job in industry and ultimately landed a communications role at Gap Inc, just as the clothing giant was under fire for labor practices. She was on the team to write the report that became the model for the entire apparel industry and introduced her to global supply chain, international commerce, and corporate social responsibility. She remained in that world, next at American Eagle and then for New Balance, her entire career. That is, until a new opportunity arose to meld her years of experience and a life-long dream.In this episode, find out from Monica how how doing what’s right is ultimately good for others and good for yourself on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestMonica Gorman is Deputy Assistant Secretary of Commerce for the manufacturing portfolio in the Biden Administration. Previously, she was the Vice President of Responsible Leadership and Compliance at New Balance and held roles in corporate social responsibility at American Eagle and Gap, Inc. She is a former Clinton-era White House intern. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyEditor: Worth Rowley Music: Brian BurrowsFind more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Guest Shakari Cameron Byerly, Dartmouth '96, recognized that at her core she is someone who brings communities together, shines a light the diversity within them, and amplifies the voices so all viewpoints are heard. She did that in her youth and in college through student assembly work and with the cultural communities that she was a part. She figured that she would have a future in public interest law or public service. But a straight path to law school didn’t feel right and she served the communities that nurtured her by returning to teach high school in the San Francisco Bay Area and Los Angeles. Realizing she still had a yearning to work at a more macro level, she worked on the social services side of educationa and mentorship. But she still had the political bug, so pursued a master's in public policy, worked with the state legislature and think tanks on education policy and economic development, ultimately getting pulled into the world of public opinion polling that she never knew existed. The perfect fit for her community-building values, she now runs one of the only African American-owned polling firms in the country with husband Rodrego Bylery, Dartmouth ’98. // In this episode, find out from Shakari how amplifying and elevating the voices of everyday people can be its own kind of public serviceon ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley.  About This Episode's GuestShakari Byerly is partner and principal researcher at EVITARUS, the Los Angeles-based public opinion research and public policy consulting firm that she runs with her husband Rodrego Byerly, Dartmouth '98. The firm is one of the only African American owned and operated polling firms in the U.S. You can find out more at evitarus.com.Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com 

Guest Will Uppington, Dartmouth '96, had a desire to do good in the world, so naturally thought he would follow in his father’s footsteps into medicine. But after a few too many hospital experiences he thought there might be another way to be of service and pursued a double major in economics and government. Worried this might not give him quite enough hard skills, he spent senior year dabbling in Chinese and math and coding. Despite these new skills and yet without any role models in the business world, he still sought a surer footing and so began is career in management consulting.Consulting experiences in the technology sector and newly-deregulated energy industry led him to a stint in venture capital, just as the dot-com bubble was bursting. Even so, he knew he wanted to pursue a life in technology entrepreneurship after business school. A few start-up experiences later, he was ready to launch his own venture, this time looking more deeply at the models in front of him, namely in artificial intelligence and machine learning.In this episode, find out from Will how important models can be and how knowing what is inside them is what gives them power on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestWill Uppington is CEO and co-founder of Truera, which helps enterprises analyze machine learning, improve model quality and build trust. Find out more at truera.com. Though his first founder role, this certainly isn't his first rodeo in the technology start-up world. He has a started and grown a number of successful companies and products and always tries to do something that is both of personal interest to him and of use to the greater world. He lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with his wife Lauren Currie Uppington ’96 and their family. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

The “Voices of Independents” series highlights the experiences and insights from a variety of independent professionals who have founded businesses of one. In this episode, Peter Walzer, management consultant, project turnaround specialist, and founder of Blue Globe Group, Inc. talks about his ideas about adapting to change, embracing uncertainty, and the need for what he calls “resurrection leadership.” He also discusses the article he has written on this topic for the inaugural issue of MBO's new Advantage Consulting Quarterly magazine. Read Peter's Advantage Consulting Quarterly article: Resurrection Leadership: A Different Kind of Leadership Skill-SetAbout This Episode's GuestPeter Walzer, management consultant, project turnaround specialist, and founder of Blue Globe Group, Inc., is a member of the MBO Advantage program, MBO Partners' exclusive membership program that that helps successful independent practice owners scale their business success and build a powerful network. You can find more about Rodney by viewing his profile on the MBO Advantage “meet the members” page. About MBO Partners® MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com. Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows.MBO Partners © 2021

The “Voices of Independents” series highlights the experiences and insights from a variety of independent professionals who have founded businesses of one. In this episode, Wade Forbes, corporate artist and founder of RedTale Communications, LLC, speaks about his path from a career in cybersecurity and consulting for the Department of Defense to creating a business around his skills and passion for connecting with people through a more visual medium. He also talks about his contribution to the inaugural issue of MBO's Advantage Consultant Quarterlymagazine.Read Wade's Advantage Consulting Quarterly article: Lockdown Lessons from a Career Consultant: How A Lot of Little Things Can Add Up to Something GreatAbout This Episode's GuestWade Forbes, corporate artist and founder of RedTale Communications, LLC, is a member of the MBO Advantage program, MBO Partners' exclusive membership program that that helps successful independent practice owners scale their business success and build a powerful network. You can find more about Wade by viewing his profile on the MBO Advantage “meet the members” page. About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com. Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows.MBO Partners © 2021

The “Voices of Independents” series highlights the experiences and insights from a variety of independent professionals who have founded businesses of one. In this episode, Beth Hughes, change architect and founder of Bay Redwood Consulting speaks about her ideas for building resiliency into a business, whether in a corporate or not-for-profit setting. She also discusses the article she has written for the inaugural issue of MBO's new Advantage Consulting Quarterly magazine. Read Beth's Advantage Consulting Quarterly article: Business Inspiration from Stories of Nonprofit ResilienceAbout This Episode's GuestBeth Hughes, change architect and founder of Bay Redwood Consulting, is a member of the MBO Advantage program, MBO Partners' exclusive membership program that that helps successful independent practice owners scale their business success and build a powerful network. You can find more about Beth by viewing her profile on the MBO Advantage “meet the members” page. About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com. Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows.MBO Partners © 2021

The “Voices of Independents” series highlights the experiences and insights from a variety of independent professionals who have founded businesses of one. In this episode, Rodney Mann, independent management consultant and founder of Steeplechase Advisory Group speaks about how Rodney parlayed his deep industry experience into a successful independent consulting career and why he has chosen this path. He also discusses the article he has written for the inaugural issue of MBO's new Advantage Consulting Quarterly magazine. Read Rodney's Advantage Consulting Quarterly article: On Strategic Planning Post Pandemic: How Do You Plan for an Unknown Future?About This Episode's GuestRodney Mann, Management Consultant and founder of Steeplechase Advisory Group, is a member of the MBO Advantage program, MBO Partners' exclusive membership program that that helps successful independent practice owners scale their business success and build a powerful network. You can find more about Rodney by viewing his profile on the MBO Advantage “meet the members” page.About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com.Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows.MBO Partners © 2021

Guest Shannon Smith-Bernadin, Dartmouth '96, knew she needed to get out of Maine, as the only prospects she saw for herself there were nursing and teaching. With two duffle bags and $400 in her pocket, she landed in Los Angeles and then landed a string of jobs that didn’t feed her soul. In supporting a friend through rehab, she learned more about her own past with alcohol and co-dependent relationships that helped her reflect on how her skills and interests in helping others could be realized in a career in nursing.Ultimately, she found her place within the community nursing space, helping other people find places to land, if only temporarily. In both professional and volunteer roles, she has developed expertise around the care of homeless populations, the social determinants of health, and alternatives to emergency medicine, particularly the management of sobriety centers. // In this episode, find out from Shannon how finding the community you’re drawn to help can provide you with as much as you give on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestShannon Smith-Bernadin, PhD, MSN, RN, is an expert in the safe and efficient utilization of sobering centers for caring for acute alcohol intoxication. She is an assistant adjunct professor at UC San Francisco, primarily teaching a course on "street nursing" and currently provides consultation to communities who are seeking help with their homeless populations or are looking to establish or manage sobering centers. She also directs the efforts of the non-profit National Sobering Collective. Find out more at nationalsobering.org Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian BurrowsFind more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com  

Arun Sundararajan, New York University professor and author of The Sharing Economy, studies the future of capitalism, and is an expert on how platform business models are transforming society. In this episode, MBO Partners talks to Arun about how the leaders in digital work-related platforms will definite templates for how economic activity will be conducted in the 21st century.Arun speaks about how the byproduct of the platformization of the world and the emergence of the sharing economy has been the growing fraction of people who have an attractive alternative to taking a full time job with a company and how this allows millions of small business owners and independent workers to get access to opportunity that they otherwise wouldn't have had. He talks about the emergence of a more border-fluid landscape for capital creation and what that means for individual workers and how platforms and government in tandem need to make sure that checks remain in place to stave further income inequality. He also speaks about the necessary shift in focusing workforce development education on mid-career education and how we need to equip workers to react opportunistically to the inevitable shifts in opportunities in the work force. He ends by discussing how the administration needs to think about supporting workforce change without reliance on traditional employment models as the only solution and the need for an individual, government and platform partnership.The conversation highlights some of the insights in the 2020 State of Independence in America report. Now in its tenth year of publication, the report takes a data-driven approach to understanding the growth of opportunities for both the independent professional and the enterprise organizations looking to hire them. Future episodes of this podcast will provide further insights on the report's findings. About This Episode's GuestArun Sundararajan is the Harold Price Professor of Entrepreneurship and Professor of Technology, Operations and Statistics at NYU Stern School of Business. A future of work expert, he is the author of the book The Sharing Economy: The End of Employment and the Rise of Crowd-Based Capitalism. His current research focus is on the future of capitalism, artificial intelligence and platform-enabled change, antitrust policy in tech, and the digital future of work. He has been a member of the World Economic Forum's Global Future Councils on Technology, Values and Policy and the New Economic Agenda. He works with tech companies on issues of strategy, litigation and regulation, and with non-tech companies trying to understand how to forecast and address changes induced by digital technologies. About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com.Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows.MBO Partners © 2021

Guest Shervyn von Hoerl, Dartmouth '96, is Iranian-American and had thought as a child touched by the fallout from foreign policy decisions that he would hitch his wagon to a politician’s star and be Secretary of State one day. Participating as an operative in campaigns during high school seemed to pave the way. But after college, he felt burned out on politics in general and even questioned the point of it all.Deciding to “sell out” as he called it and make a living in New York in the world of finance, he ultimately landed a job in structured capital. He was surprised to find the work interesting and something that he was good at and so has remained in the industry for two decades. While not completely passionate about the work itself, it has afforded him the opportunity to pour his soul into other thing, namely local politics.  After changing parties and honing a new collaborative style, he is part of something political that fills him up after all.In this episode, find out from Shervyn how listening to others can lead you to pick the side that feels more authentic for you on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley.  About This Episode's GuestShervyn von Hoerl has more than 20 years of experience in the structured finance industry, having developed innovative capital solutions for many types of clients. He is co-chair of the Fair Haven Democratic Municipal Committee near the Jersey Shore, where he proudly lives in a brightly colored Victorian with his family. (257)//Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Jeff Wald, founder of WorkMarket and author of The End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations provides a data-driven approach to the future of work, namely through building enterprise software to provide organization to the chaos of HR details. He is now putting his mind toward the building of a skills taxonomy that could both drive organizational strategy and open up opportunity for the independent workforce. MBO Partners talks to Jeff about this need for a robust skills taxonomy within and across companies, the flux of supply and demand today, and what we still need to talk about collectively to realize our desired future of work.Jeff speaks about how technology not only helps to bring organization to HR chaos and de-risk human talent management, but also provides opportunities to independent workers. He also talks about the decline in government and company safety nets and how regulatory measures are still needed to improve the future of work. As he sees that slow to happen, he talks about how informal worker collective efforts and the development of a robust skills taxonomy may be what's needed to move the needle.The conversation highlights some of the insights in the 2020 State of Independence in America report. Now in its tenth year of publication, the report takes a data-driven approach to understanding the growth of opportunities for both the independent professional and the enterprise organizations looking to hire them. Future episodes of this podcast will provide further insights on the report's findings.About This Episode's Guest Jeff Wald is the founder of WorkMarket, an enterprise software platform that enables companies to efficiently and compliantly, organize, manage and pay freelancers (purchased by ADP). Jeff has founded several other technology companies, including Spinback, a social sharing platform (eventually purchased by salesforce.com). Jeff began his career in finance, serving as a Managing Director at activist hedge fund Barington Capital Group, a Vice President at Israeli venture firm GlenRock and various roles in the M&A Group at JP Morgan. He is an active angel investor and startup advisor, as well as serving on numerous public and private Boards of Directors. Jeff holds an MBA from Harvard University and an MS and BS from Cornell University. Jeff is the author of The End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations.About MBO Partners® MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com. Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows.MBO Partners © 2021

Guest Gregory Papajohn, Dartmouth '96, had thought that Georgetown’s School of Foreign Service would be the way to live out the service ethos that he’d grown up with. But, even for a kid who lived in the shadow of Manhattan, he realized during a visit to D.C. that urban life didn’t seem to fit his idea of college. Dartmouth’s setting provided him with a groundedness that he still relies on to help him make big decisions.A government major, Gregory interned at a law firm during a leave term and went back to law after graduation. Even as he was taking the LSATs, he knew the round-the-clock grindstone was not something he relished. But it was only after law school and a moonlighting gig that introduced him to investor relations did he realize there were other ways to exercise the advocacy muscle. He pounded the pavements for a way into a new career in public relations.He made a name for himself promoting his large, established financial services clients. But the financial crisis of 2007 made him reexamine the type of companies that were deserving of his efforts. He was pulled more toward fintech and social entrepreneurship. And when he found that his agency wasn’t giving their clients agency at all, he realized he had a better model and pursued it.In this episode, find out from Gregory how the disruptors to the establishment can sometimes be the ones to follow and then to emulate on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestGregory Papajohn is a public relations expert with a history of serving big established financial players. After pivoting, he founded the Archie Group, a public relations, marketing and advisory-services firm that helps fintech and other emerging business position themselves in the market, acquire customers and partners, and develop reputational capital. He lives in Connecticut with his wife and three children.Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Guest Matt Wiltshire, Dartmouth '96, grew up in Nashville in a family that was active in politics and in serving the community around them in a variety of ways. Ever the fiery, argumentative one, Matt went to college to study government and thought law school was in his future. Thinking he’d save a little money before law school, he followed in the shoes of senior year roommate and went into investment banking. He hadn’t intended to make it into a fifteen-year career but the idea of sticking with smart people working on interesting problems led to opportunity after opportunity, city to city.Finally, he found a banking opportunity that brought him home to Nashville. He loved the work, but he found himself being pulled into community development work with local not-for-profits boards and community committees and found a desire to do more of that. When an opening appeared within the mayor’s office of economic development, he knew he would be an unlikely candidate. But luckily they recognized that the skills he had gained while he was gone, married with the love he had for the city, would make Matt the perfect person to try to expand opportunities for Nashville and his fellow citizens.In this episode, find out from Matt how making things better is all the sweeter in a place that you love…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestMatt Wiltshire is a proud son of Nashville, Tennessee, doing all he can to build and strengthen the city he loves. After a fifteen year career in investment banking, he finally turned to public service, becoming the Director of the Mayor’s Office of Economic and Community Development under multiple mayors. He is currently Chief Strategy and Intergovernmental Affairs Officer at Nashville’s Metropolitan Development and Housing Agency.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Guest Matt Little, Dartmouth '96, had a bit of a free-range childhood, allowed as he was to paddle out to his own little island fiefdom near his parent’s lake cabin in Central Minnesota. Finding frogs and other friends and feeling one with that special place, he knew then—as a young child—that he wanted to do all he could to protect special places like this. With an eye to one day becoming head of the Environmental Protection Agency, he pursued his high school studies to get him to the right college and the right experiences to make it happen. It paid off as he soon found himself in Washington, D.C., doing environmental policy work—yes, even with the Environmental Protection and also the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York.But with an eye on doing more for the Environment, capital E, he also knew that his own environment was also important for his psychic good. So he found a way to plunge himself back in nature and started making impact in a different way.In this episode, find out from Matt how continuing to make the impact that fills your soul sometimes requires a change in environment…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestMatt Little is a conservationist, environmental policy wonk, and currently the director of investor partnerships at Social Venture Partners Portland. He lives in Washington State with his wife and their two daughters, whom he tries to get into the great outdoors as much as possible. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

In this episode, MBO Partners Chief Executive Officer Miles Everson speaks about how a more flexible, open-source view of human capital is key idea in the new economy, the need for enterprise organizations to develop a strategy for utilizing independent workers, how the pandemic has shifted the playing field, and how today's worker—perhaps looking to become a solo entrepreneur—can ready themselves to start and finish the work at hand. Miles talks about his pre-MBO days as a consultant and how that informs his views of today's independent economy. Miles also speaks about the “four forces” that are at play in today's economy—the accelerating rate of change, deflationary progress, knowledge flows, and the fractionalization of everything. He goes in-depth about how leaders should take note of converging advances in technology to change their businesses. He also discusses how reducing friction in the relationships between independent professionals and the organizations that want to work with them is key to the success of both sides and how platform organizations are driving this.The conversation highlights some of the insights in the 2020 State of Independence in America report. Now in its tenth year of publication, the report takes a data-driven approach to understanding the growth of opportunities for both the independent professional and the enterprise organizations looking to hire them. Future episodes of this podcast will provide further insights on the report's findings. About This Episode's Guest Miles Everson is MBO Partners' Chief Executive Officer. As a practicing consultant for decades, Miles has worked with many of the world's largest and most prominent organizations, specializing in executive management. He helps companies balance growth, reduce risk, maximize return, and excel in strategic business priorities. Before joining MBO, Everson had a rich career with PwC, beginning in the firm's Assurance practice, moving to leadership roles within Advisory/Consulting in both Canada and the U.S., eventually becoming the U.S. Advisory/Consulting Vice Chairman and finally stepping into the role of Asia Pacific Americas Advisory and Consulting Leader to help globalize the Advisory/Consulting practice. He is a sought-after public speaker and contributor and has been a case study for success from Harvard Business School.Mentioned in this episodeAndreessen Horowitz's ‘Deep' Job Platforms and How to Build Them by D'Arcy Coolican and Jeff JordanBessemer Venture Partners' Roadmap: Enabling Entrepreneurship by Talia Goldberg, Sakib Dadi, and Lindsey Li About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com.Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows.MBO Partners © 2021

Guest Jennifer Wullf, Dartmouth '96, never thought she was college bound, let alone Ivy League material. But with encouragement that she was a strong writer who had the goods, she entered Dartmouth as a transfer student at the age of 23, making her time at college seem somewhat out of sync. Perhaps that is one reason the memoir she tried to write during her last year’s fellowship—though packed with a roller-coaster plot—ended up missing the mark.She continued her journey as a writer with a quick stint at Sports Illustrated and then a ten-year career at People Magazine, where she honed her skills profiling some of the most accomplished and creative celebrities. To better suit life with a family, she turned to freelance work and now writes frequently for the Dartmouth Alumni Magazine, where she still profiles some pretty amazing people. But, while she does that work well and enjoys it, it still doesn't fill her need to tell her own story.In this episode, find out from Jen how listening to others can ultimately bring out the story from within …on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestJennifer Wullf is a freelance writer, most recognizable to Dartmouth folks through her many cover stories and profiles of alumni from Mindy Kaling to Shonda Rimes to our own Marsha Stephanie Blake in the Dartmouth Alumni Magazine, where she is a contributing editor. Before hitting it out on her own, she was a long-time staff writer at People Magazine. She is currently working on her memoir. Also Mentioned in this EpisodeJen’s Dartmouth Alumni Magazine coverstories on actor classmate Marsha Stephanie Blake ’96 and Hollywood showrunner extraordinaire Shonda Rimes ’91. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyAudio Engineer: Clancy RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows 

In this episode, MBO Partners' Founder and Executive Chairman Gene Zaino shares MBO's origin story, what impact the landmark State of Independence report had on the future of work, and what he sees as the challenges and benefits of this important sector of the economy going forward. Gene walks through the choices in early adulthood that led to his entrepreneurial career and how he buttressed those experiences with education and a stint in an enterprise consulting firm that taught him what the client side of the industry needed.Gene also shares his insights about the what the future of independent economy looks like—how the knowledge worker will productize their intellectual property in the “maker economy” and how all future workers will need to be set up as an independent entity with an “Iron Man” suit providing the tools to adapt to changing landscapes.He also discusses how reducing friction in the relationships between independent professionals and the organizations that want to work with them will require not only regulation but also a deeper understanding of the rewards that each side of the industry stand to gain in terms of agility and flexibility. The conversation highlights some of the insights in the 2020 State of Independence in America report. Now in its tenth year of publication, the report takes a data-driven approach to understanding the growth of opportunities for both the independent professional and the enterprise organizations looking to hire them. Future episodes of this podcast will provide further insights on the report's findings. About This Episode's GuestGene Zaino is MBO Partners' Founder and Executive Chairman. An avid entrepreneur and nationally recognized expert in the next way of working, Gene launched MBO Partners to reinvent the way independent consultants and organizations work together. He's a passionate advocate for the independent workforce movement, and is committed to developing the best practices and engagement tools that support workplace independence. In addition to being a member of the Staffing Industry Analyst's "Hall of Fame,” Gene has been on all five Staffing Industry 100 lists, is an in-demand speaker, and has appeared on CNN and CNBC, as well as in Forbes, Harvard Business Review, and The Wall Street Journal. Mentioned in this episode: The End of Jobs: The Rise of On-Demand Workers and Agile Corporations by Jeff Wald. About MBO Partners®MBO Partners is a deep jobs platform that connects and enables independent professionals and microbusiness owners to do business safely and effectively with enterprise organizations. Its unmatched experience and industry leadership enable it to operate on the forefront of the independent economy and consistently advance the next way of working. For more information, visit​ mbopartners.com.Episode hosted by Aassia Haq; produced, edited, and engineered by Leslie Jennings Rowley. With music by Brian Burrows.MBO Partners © 2020

Guest Darryl Knudsen, Dartmouth '96, was technically a comparative literature major in college, but one could be forgiven for thinking he was a paddling major given the amount of time he spent on the water. Unsuprisingly, he began adult life as a river guide. But when he stood on the banks at one point and realized he didn’t have the tools needed to make the impact he wanted, he took a different course.He embarked on a career in human rights and business—one he needed to forge for himself as there was little in the way of corporate social responsibility in either grad school or businesses. Starting first with socially responsible investment funds, he then found his way into Gap, Inc. where he honed his skills over the next decade and then found himself working globally on everything from improving working conditions to curtailing child exploitation. And once he had the tools of negotiation in the human and environmental rights context, the rivers called him back.In this episode, find out from Darryl how picking the right path in the current—sometimes going with the flow and sometimes against it—while hard, can be transformative …on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestDarryl Knudsen is Executive Director of International Rivers, an organization devoted to protecting rivers and defending the rights of the communities that depend on them. The tailor-made role allows him to meld his love of rivers with two decades of experience in human rights and global corporate responsibility honed during his time at Gap Inc. and other experiences representing the interests of workers, communities, and environments. Also Mentioned in this EpisodeEstablished in 1920, Ledyard Canoe Club is a student-run organization at Dartmouth College that supports flatwater and whitewater canoeing and kayaking. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Guest Suzie Brown Sax, Dartmouth '96, was part of lots of communities in college, from sports to Greek life. But she found her “people” for the first time, senior year, when she joined the female a cappella group the Rockapellas. While the group provided the creative outlet she didn’t know she needed, it also made her question her long-standing dreams to join her science skills with her interest in helping people in a life of medicine. Sage words from a summer music teacher right before she went off to medical school convinced her that she was lucky that she had more than one talent and that somehow there would be a way to keep music in her life.Little did she know that she would find a way to touch lives through both a vibrant cardiology practice and a career as a singer-songwriter—both of which are about vulnerability in very different ways. She feels a clear sense of purpose with cardiology and puts all of her energy and thought into her patients when she is with them. But she also could never see herself stopping creating music.In this episode, find out from Suzie different ways to touch people’s hearts and how to be strong for others, you sometimes need to find another outlet for emotions you can’t express elsewhere …on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestSuzie Brown is an advanced heart failure/heart transplant cardiologist at Vanderbilt University Medical Center and a singer-song writer with multiple albums to her name, including her latest Under the Surface. She lives in Nashville with musician husband Scot Sax and their two daughters. Find Suzie and her music at suziebrownsongs.com.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.comEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

Guest Rebecca Oettinger Feder, Dartmouth '96, knew enough about business after leaving college to know that she didn’t know enough. After a rotational program and an executive MBA, she realized she was drawn most to Human Resources, which she came to regard as more than just an enabling function to the businesses of which she was a part. Her roles supporting senior managers across the entirety of a business gave her an intimate look at all sides of the business and a courtside seat to how senior executives make decisions.But with the growth of her career—serving many business units within giant global companies that required more and more days on the road and away from family—she realized she needed to make a change. Luckily a decade before, when she was just contemplated motherhood, she had drawn up a business plan for her own HR consultancy. At the time, trusted advisors told her she needed more experience and connections, but when she brushed off the plan all those years later, she was on her way.In this episode, find out from Rebecca how sometimes it’s the combination of experience, connections, and timing that leads to the impact you are after…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestRebecca Oettinger Feder is principal consultant at Princeton HR Insight, LLC. With extensive experience in HR management roles with global organizations, including as McMaster-Carr, Bristol Myers Squibb, and Tyco/Johnson Controls, she now advises clients in a range of industries through her own firm. Find Rebecca at PrincetonHRinsight.com. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Marc McDonald, Dartmouth '96 and self-proclaimed film lover, had been combining his love of media and communications and sports through writing and broadcasting during college. After sticking around campus for a year after graduation as an assistant track coach, he also took advantage of the opportunity to run the Dartmouth Film Society and a chance to connect with the Telluride Film Festival kicked off a passion that he was able to stoke for over two decades. Although he immediately knew he wanted to run a film festival for a living, Telluride had only a small full-time team.His skill in marketing and storytelling and innate managerial skills led him to arts management elsewhere—with a Shakespeare theater company. He realized that he needed to hone his management skills further, so pursued an MBA. The career he made for himself after that has centered on managing teams and communications work within social impact organizations. But he’s never given up the dream to run a film festival. He just figured out how to have his cake and eat it, too. In this episode, find out from Marc how keeping a passion project alive takes work but pays dividends...on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestMarc McDonald has a history of managing organizations and teams—and their storytelling efforts—in the social service, arts and media fields. He is currently with the AARP Foundation where he has held a number of Communications, Marketing and strategy integration roles. His previous experience includes stints at the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the Commonwealth Shakespeare Company, among other. But his love of film and community accounts for his love affair with the Telluride Film Festival, where he has been Manager of Theatre Operations, seasonally, for the last 20-plus years.   Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Scott Anthony, Dartmouth '96, was never really thinking about a life in journalism. But he found the time spent working on America’s oldest college newspaper, The Dartmouth, enjoyable because of his ability to pose questions and do research and tell a story. Years later, those skills would come back together in the work he does as an author on business innovation topics.Though he credits growing up in a family that valued tinkering, trying things, and finding new connections as one inspiration, it was a chance encounter in business school with Clayton Christensen, father of disruptive innovation, that set him on path to consulting, researching, and writing on innovation. Scott ended up being a research assistant for Clay, co-writing a book with him, and joining his start-up consulting firm. Nearly twenty years later, working in the firm’s Singapore office, he’s learned—and written—volumes on what it really means to be innovative and what it takes to be innovative in personal and professional realms.In this episode, find out from Scott how innovation in business and innovation in life often feel very similar…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestScott Anthony is an author and senior partner at growth strategy consulting firm Innosight. He has written extensively about a number of innovation topics including disruptive innovation and business transformation, with such titles as his first work with Clay Christensen Seeing What’s Next and his recent 2020 release, Eat Sleep Innovate. His latest research is on "both/and" behaviors (as opposed to "either/or" strategies) that predict stellar leadership. Find Scott at innosight.com. Mentioned in this episode is the book The Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton Christensen.Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Chesley Homan Flotten, Dartmouth '96, entered college thinking she would be an advocate in the legal sense—one who is professionally qualified to plead the cause of another in a court of law. But a love of history soon blossomed and she found herself in graduate school with the idea of researching and teaching. Ultimately, that path didn’t resonate with her either and, as a new mother, she sought to exercise her professional side in a role where she could make more direct impact on people. She worked in college fundraising until unexpected news set her life in a different direction.A breast cancer diagnosis at the age of 28—which she did not expect but also needed to push doctors to rightly identify—opened her eyes to how important it is to advocate for yourself. Thankfully able, in time, to manage that personal health challenge, she next found the same self-advocacy skills were required to navigate the social and educational services landscape surrounding her son’s autism journey. A seemingly impulsive decision to open a knitting store actually emerged as a holding space for a community-building movement that helped her connect one-on-one with others going through similar challenges. Ultimately, it led her to add professionalized skills of social work to the personal advocacy network she was creating.In this episode, find out from Chesley how navigating the abyss on your own can sometimes make you the best advocate and guide for others...on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestChesley Flotten the former owner of The Knitting Experience Café, is a licensed clinical social worker specializing in oncology social work, focused on addressing the psychosocial needs of individuals and families coping with the impact of illness and disability. She is currently the manager of psychosocial oncology services at Harold Alfond Center for Cancer Care in Augusta, Maine. Mentioned in this EpisodeYoung Survival Coalition: The organization addressing the unique needs and improving the quality of life of young adults under the age of 40 affected by breast cancer.Knitted Knockers: Two main organizations have sprung from that which Chesley created to help provide soft, comfortable knit prosthetics for free to breast cancer survivors. https://www.knittedknockers.org/ and http://www.knittedknockersusa.org. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows 

Guest Jonathon “Stew” Stewart, Dartmouth '96, set off to Hollywood immediately after graduation to become a writer and director in Hollywood. Without ready-made connections or a pre-determined path, he had to stumbled around in the beginning until a few observations of the sublime and the ridiculous within his own family made him take stock anew and recommit to the path he’d chosen. Embarking on a collaboration with fellow Dartmouth writer Eyal Podell ’97, he worked on a biopic script about a protégé of Frank Lloyd Wright’s before taking the plunge into a similar project on Theordore Geisel. The Dr. Seuss script, though not without its barriers to an easy road to the box office, became the duo’s calling card around Hollywood and ultimately opened doors to animated film projects and other creative initiatives that require just the tricky balance of humanity the pair have continued to perfect.In this episode, find out from Stew how finding the human story--whether in a non-human animated character or the protagonist of a period biopic--is all about simultaneously seeing both the whimsy and drama of life…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestJonathan Stewart is a screenwriter, director, and author, who—with writing partner Eyal Podell, Dartmouth ’97—has straddled big budget animation and period biopic projects, pulling both the humanity and whimsy out of such characters as Lightning McQueen, a protégé of Frank Lloyd Wright, and our own Dr. Seuess. Find out about his creative projects (as well as a very cool coffee endeavor called Java Stew) at jstew.com. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

In this, Episode 46 (which is part of Series 5) of the SyncLodge Exploring Music Podcast we explore the blurred lines between contemporary music and production music for use in visual productions with industry experts Barry Whittaker-Gilbey and Brian Burrows part 2 of 2 Barry Whittaker-Gilbey, a frequently sought-after music industry consultant specialising in music licensing and synchronisation. He has over 20 years experience in the music industry working with clients and partners as diverse as Samsung, Universal, Warners, Sky TV, Fox, BBC to name a few. He is also a composer in his own right, having credits with a vast range of companies both in the UK and worldwide. He has consistently throughout his career worked at the cutting edge of the music industry and developing technologies.His current list of positions include; Directory/Composer at Energy Music, Head of Sync and Licensing at Kycker, Producer/Composer/Consultant at Hodo Music, Board Member on Sheffield City Region Music Board, and continues to be a Recording Artist and composer.And joining Barry is Brian BurrowsBrian Burrows is a Composer, Producer and Music Publisher who grew up in Liverpool playing on the live music scene, then moved to London aged 18. He spent his formative years as a songwriter/producer working with the likes of Liam Frost, Spek, Longview, Fil Eisler and as a remixer/engineer for many artists including Robbie Williams, Ian Brown and Roger Waters. Brian has been composing music for TV and Film for many years including the scores for the BAFTA nominated Channel 4 film, The Hunt For Tony Blair. His music has been used by many world class TV, Film and ad producers including BBC, Disney, Netflix, Channel 4, ESPN, National Geographic, Sky Sports, CNN, ITV, Amazon, Nokia, Toyota, BMW, Stihl and Becks. The EMP theme music players are Joe Schirl on bass guitar and Peter Mayerhofer on hand pan. The music played through the conversation was composed, engineered and mixed by Lionel Lodge.This episode conversation was recorded at The Joint in the Kings Cross area of London, England. For more information on their services please visit www.thejoint.org.ukThe Exploring Music Podcast is produced by SyncLodge, the sync licensing project management system. For more information please visit www.synclodge.com If you wish to support us in producing this podcast series, please click the donate button. Any and all help will be put towards production of future episodes.Support the show (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=WVZLRF49C7Y6A&source=url)

Guest Justin Boyd, Dartmouth '96, may have been destined to practice dentistry with three generations of dentists on his father’s side preceding him. But as captain of the men’s lacrosse team, Justin realized his first job was to learn to juggle his role as a student-athlete (and fraternity member) with his pre-med studies.Knowing dentistry wasn’t the only game in town, he found himself seeking advice from a teammate’s father who was a prescient physician: He told him that it appeared that general medicine of the future was going to be in the hands of big insurance and that dentistry would remain rather insulated from that trend. At the same time, Justin looked around at the lifestyle that dentistry afforded his father—who could stop seeing patients in Manhattan at noon and still make a mid-week lacrosse game in Hanover to see him—and the path seemed clear.In this episode, find out from Justin how sometimes observing those closest to you can give you useful information about the life you should be living …on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley.About This Episode's GuestJustin Boyd is among the fourth generation of Boyds to practice dentistry in the family business, a mainstay of dentistry in mid-town Manhattan since 1930. Though he may be on the sidelines or among the coaching staff at one of his five kids' games when you look for him, you can try to find him at drsboyd.com. BONUS EPISODE NOTE: Listen to the Roads Diverged bonus episode with Justin published on November 6 in which he discusses how his practice was shut down at the start of the Coronavirus, how he and his family used the time to rethink dental care in this modern age, and what the practice has felt like since reopening. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

In this, Episode 46 (which is part of Series 5) of the SyncLodge Exploring Music Podcast we explore the blurred lines between contemporary music and production music for use in visual productions with industry experts Barry Whittaker-Gilbey and Brian Burrows part 1 of 2 Barry Whittaker-Gilbey, a frequently sought-after music industry consultant specialising in music licensing and synchronisation. He has over 20 years experience in the music industry working with clients and partners as diverse as Samsung, Universal, Warners, Sky TV, Fox, BBC to name a few. He is also a composer in his own right, having credits with a vast range of companies both in the UK and worldwide. He has consistently throughout his career worked at the cutting edge of the music industry and developing technologies.His current list of positions include; Directory/Composer at Energy Music, Head of Sync and Licensing at Kycker, Producer/Composer/Consultant at Hodo Music, Board Member on Sheffield City Region Music Board, and continues to be a Recording Artist and composer.And joining Barry is Brian BurrowsBrian Burrows is a Composer, Producer and Music Publisher who grew up in Liverpool playing on the live music scene, then moved to London aged 18. He spent his formative years as a songwriter/producer working with the likes of Liam Frost, Spek, Longview, Fil Eisler and as a remixer/engineer for many artists including Robbie Williams, Ian Brown and Roger Waters. Brian has been composing music for TV and Film for many years including the scores for the BAFTA nominated Channel 4 film, The Hunt For Tony Blair. His music has been used by many world class TV, Film and ad producers including BBC, Disney, Netflix, Channel 4, ESPN, National Geographic, Sky Sports, CNN, ITV, Amazon, Nokia, Toyota, BMW, Stihl and Becks. The EMP theme music players are Joe Schirl on bass guitar and Peter Mayerhofer on hand pan. The music played through the conversation was composed, engineered and mixed by Lionel Lodge.This episode conversation was recorded at The Joint in the Kings Cross area of London, England. For more information on their services please visit www.thejoint.org.ukThe Exploring Music Podcast is produced by SyncLodge, the sync licensing project management system. For more information please visit www.synclodge.com If you wish to support us in producing this podcast series, please click the donate button. Any and all help will be put towards production of future episodes.Support the show (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=WVZLRF49C7Y6A&source=url)

Guest Michelle Erickson Waters, Dartmouth '96, had originally thought she’d be a lawyer, but after she spent a fellowship term with a legal aid organization at the border doing more grant-writing and bureaucratic stuff and less helping people, she listened more carefully to the call to the ministry. A path to divinity school took a slightly different turn than expected when she chose to attend the same school as non-Christian-boyfriend-turned-Christian-fiancé. They have now served together as a pastoral couple for over twenty years. When their family expanded to four children—later six—she took an early retirement from the church and devoted her time to homeschool the flock. With one now out of the house at college and others in public school now, Michelle has found many other ways to exercise all of the skills required by a pastor—public speaking, counseling, celebrating, and business management. She writes a blog and co-hosts a podcast and continues to work side-by-side with her husband in various ways at the church. In this episode, find out from Michelle how faith and flexibility are often the best guideposts…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings RowleyAbout This Episode's GuestMichelle Erickson Waters is a retired pastor who continues to do pastoral work in a number of ways, including through her writing and the podcast Pastors Confidential, which she co-hosts with husband Eric Waters, Dartmouth ’95. Find her writing and the podcast at Michellejoywaters.com. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Joey Hood, Dartmouth '96, had originally thought he’d spend a life in government service or maybe in politics, but after he realized government majors were mostly really passionate, argumentative lawyers in training, he concentrated in his beloved French. Taking opportunities that presented themselves and ones he concocted on his own, he did every foreign study program in France availle, taught English and studied west African literature in Senegal, and pursued a Fulbright Fellowship in Burkino Faso, investigating the colonial roots of the current educational system and policies there.So when he landed a spot in the U.S. foreign service, it might sense that his language and cultural skills would send him back to West Africa. Instead, this generalist diplomat has spent more than two decades chiefly in the middle east. Every new assignment has been a graduate seminar on a new culture and geopolitical chess game and he considers the best job out there, the hardship posts and difficulties in leaving somewhere just when it’s starting to grow on you, notwithstanding.In this episode, find out from Joey taking things as they come, but making the most of every moment once you’ve reached your destination, is a winning strategy when your career bounces you all over the world…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley About This Episode's GuestJoey Hood, Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern Affairs at the U.S. Department of State, has spent over two decades in the foreign service. A generalist diplomat who has been assigned chiefly in the middle east, he has served as Deputy Chief of Mission in Iraq and Kuwait and Consul General in Dharan, Saudi Arabia. His current role keeps him in Washington, D.C. but who knows where the next assignment will take him.  Mentioned in this episode is the book Our Kids by Robert Putnam.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows 

"My main objective of starting the ROADS TAKEN podcast was to highlight the stories of my classmates as we travel the road this year to our 25th college reunion – to reflect on who we were when we graduated, who we thought we’d be, and how we’ve traveled down various roads to get where we are today. I wanted to hit home the idea that, regardless of the paths we’ve taken, we’ve still lived into these full lives."But at this time when so many young adults out there are wondering what their future will hold, I’m hoping that ROADS TAKEN will also help others interested in living a full life and reflecting on what that means."Many of us remember thinking that the direction we would choose at the beginning of adulthood was so crucial because it would lock us into our future path leading either to success or not.  "Already in the first couple dozen or so episodes—featuring guests with drastically different stories about their time in business or the military or education or domestic life—some very clear themes are emerging. I thought today I’d pull out a bit of the wisdom that my guests up to now have shared when reflecting on their own journeys, particularly what they wish they’d known when they were younger or what they might tell to someone just starting out on their life’s journey."Thanks for Listening! - Leslie Jennings RowleyHIghlighted in this episdode:Gabe Schlumberger from Episode 4Zack Stein from Episode 14Dan Gonzalez from Episode 1Jeneen DiBenedetto Graham from Episode 7Michelle Villalobos from Episode 5Pace Duckenfield from Episode 6Fiona Danks from Episode 12Chris Newell from Episode 8Sarah McAlister Woelfle from Episode 3Betsy Miller from Episode 10 Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Aleph Henestrosa, Dartmouth '96, knew that he needed good grades and an Ivy League degree in order not to disappoint his father, who had staked out a “central plan” for young Aleph from an early age. This dutiful son did what was expected. Though a personal wake-up call came during his junior year, making him realize he’d always relied on that central plan, he heard the call but didn’t quite have an alternative to the path to the top.  Onward to McKinsey and then Stanford’s Graduate School of Business and then the hottest industry in the early days of the new millennium – venture capital. But when the bubble burst and he found himself far from home, it was time to realize he needed to make decisions based on something other than the biggest name and what everyone else was talking about.  He needed to find his inner compass.Years in international development and other globetrotting pursuits ultimately let him embrace his entrepreneurial spirit. Returning home to Mexico, he founded a rapidly expanding hair removal chain, and now lives a rich life with his wife and daughter.In this episode, find out from Aleph how reflecting on the way we make our choices is sometimes just as important as the choices we ultimately make…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley About This Episode's GuestAleph Henestrosa is the founder and CEO of Wax Revolution, a rapidly expanding (but we don't think we can say growing) hair removal chain headquartered in Mexico City. Find his company at WaxRevolution.com. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Brandon del Pozo, Dartmouth '96, stood on a folding chair on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange after the first tower fell on 9/11, tasked with shutting down the exchange and getting people to safety. Some people weren’t listening until a patrician old banker said “This officer’s talking, and we’re going to listen and do what he says.”  In time, a lot more people would echo that sentiment: This officer’s talking, and we’re going to listen and do what he says.A public health, drug policy, and policing expert, Brandon helps others formulate policy by drawing on lessons learned at the intersection of on-the-street practice and his academic investigations of political philosophy over a career spent in both policing and research. He looks to both theory and evidence-based behavioral science to boil things down to systems that a person can use to improve a life on a given day.In this episode, find out from Brandon how the philosophical and the practical can come together in ways that can be of real and deep consequence for the well-being of others…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley About This Episode's GuestBrandon del Pozo spent nearly two decades in the New York City Police Department and served as the chief of police in Burlington, Vermont, where he tackled a number of pressing societal issues, including the opioid addiction crisis. He is currently a postdoctoral public health researcher at Brown University and continues to think deeply on the systems-level reforms necessary to optimize public health and policing in America. Find him at brandondelpozo.com. BONUS EPISODE NOTE: Listen to the Roads Diverged bonus episode with Brandon published on September 18 in which he discusses his vision for how policing in America can become a truly positive affirming force for our society provided we view it through a collaborative, systems-based lens.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows  

Guest Zack Stein, Dartmouth '96, found that his early stint as a consultant seemed a less (ful)filling, cheap imitation of the romantic life in the craft beer he had imagined for himself. When he finally made it into the beer biz, though, he realized that the lifestyle wasn’t quite as romantic as he’d made it out. What he loved, however, was telling a story about the brands. On the road to his marketing future, though, he was given the opportunity to take control of the operations and buying side of his products.  And a world of just beer turned into cheese, turned into produce, turned into everything under the sun.In this episode, find out from Zack how following your taste buds, and a penchant for acquiring a broad field of knowledge, can open up a whole new buffet of options…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley About This Episode's GuestZack Stein is a purchasing consultant who—while no longer our direct line to the best beer deals— is still the one to go to for recommendations of the best craft brews around. He loves cooking and spending time with his family, including his partner, Margaret Chang, Dartmouth ’96.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Fiona Danks, Dartmouth '96, thought she was going to be a doctor or veterinarian and has almost all of the pre-med credits to prove it. But she didn’t love the competitive nature of those courses and was drawn instead to geography. A happy chance of a lack of summer funding led her to Arctic science, which just happened to meld her love of biology and the physical and human sides of geography.Not wanting to be pigeonholed into one narrow field, though, she stayed away from doctoral programs—until she didn’t—and kept finding ways to expand her knowledge and experience base, both inside the classroom and in the field.After years of adventuring, running an Arctic research center in Svalbard—think polar bears, reindeer, and lots and lots of snow—she is now in an office job in Cambridge. But the impact that she’s having on a variety of the world’s conservation issues is just as breathtaking as when she was in snowshoes. In this episode, find out from Fiona how sometimes environment is a complex thing and you might just find adventure where you look for it…on  ROADS TAKEN…with Leslie Jennings Rowley. //  About This Episode's GuestFiona Danks is Head of the Science Programme at the United Nations Environment Programme World Conservation Monitoring Centre (UNEP-WCMC), where she helps to develop tools and processes to aid decision makers understand how to account for the value of biodiversity in policy-making for development and the environment. She also teaches and advises students at Fitzwilliam College at the University of Cambridge. And if there is ever a future medical doctor or vet in the making, our money would be on Fiona.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Aassia Haroon Haq, Dartmouth '96, always considered herself a writer and had the opportunity right after college to return home to Pakistan and begin writing international news stories that it may have taken her years to have the chance to cover in other markets. But a chance encounter with a childhood friend blossomed into romance and required a move back to the States and an investigation of how to parlay her communications experience into business opportunities. Eventually, having moved through the ranks of major consumer goods companies, a wake-up call inspired a leap into the entrepreneurial world.Aassia used her experience in corporate communications and brand management to launch her own company in the #futureofwork space before self-employment and the rise of the independent worker was the mega-trend it is today. She now helps to lead an organization focused on elevating and supporting the independent consulting sector and thinking more strategically about how to serve talent outside the full-time workforce. And somehow, she still finds time to keep her entrepreneurial spirit alive on the side. In this episode, find out from Aassia how recognizing you can be something other than what you are today takes both looking forward and looking back…on ROADS TAKEN…with Leslie Jennings Rowley About This Episode’s GuestAassia Haq is an entrepreneur and an expert in the mega-trend of self-employment and the rise of the independent worker. She currently works at MBO Partners, a leading name in enabling both organizations and talent to thrive in the independent economy, and still owns Guidrr, a content marketing platform connecting travel influencers and brands through building mobile-first travel guides.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Betsy Miller, Dartmouth '96, left college directly for law school but had this sinking feeling she probably should have been a therapist. What she found, though, was that it just meant that she was drawn always to the human elements of the law. After years of varied work in the legal field—from accomplished litigator to law school instructor—she started asking where others in the legal profession were going to get the leadership lessons they needed to succeed and not just the “vocational training common to the field.Having returned to school herself to delve into organizational development, change management, and leadership development, she now is on a mission to make an impact on the law both in practice and in the educational setting so that a new crop of lawyers—including women and other underrepresented groups—have the skills that they and their organizations need to excel in a field that relies solely on human talent and team-based work.In this episode, find out from Betsy how sometimes you need to step up an answer your own questions in order to make a real impact …on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestBetsy Miller is Partner at Cohen Milstein and is co-chair of the firm’s public client practice group. In her work, she represents state Attorneys General in civil investigations and litigation in areas that protect government interests and vulnerable communities, mainly from corporate abuse. When she’s not using her voice for your rights, she can be found using her voice to get you pumped as a fitness instructor.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Kelcey Grimm, Dartmouth '96, planned a one-year sabbatical from her VC job with three months in southeast Asia, three months in India, and three months in Africa. But after meeting a loveable group of lion dens and bonding with them immediately, she scrapped her itinerary and stayed with her new brood. No long after, though, she realized all was not as it seemed. Thus started nearly two decades of struggles against the canned farming industry, the South African government, and local actors as she has attempted to conserve wildlands and the species that make them their home. // Kelcey co-founded the Enkosini Wildlife Reserve (now Lapolosa Wilderness) in South Africa and 2001. She has since rescued a variety of wildlife, and now dedicates all her time to the education, management and social change needed to protect wildlife and wild lands in Africa. The vast majority of the operating budget for the conservancy is derived from the Enkosini Eco Experience, a collection of voluntourism projects that Kelcey curates and helps to bring to life.In this episode, find out from Kelcey about the balance between doing what’s right and finding what works and how a need for connection and something greater than yourself can be fulfilled in more than one way. About This Episode's GuestKelcey Grimm is the co-founder of the Enkosini Wildlife Reserve (now Lapolosa Wilderness) and Director of Philanthropy and the driving force behind the Enkosini Eco Experience. After well over a decade living deep in the bush and off the grid in Africa, she is running her organization’s operation from Seattle, where she lives with her two children.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Having grown up with traditional Passamaquoddy traditional music in his home community of Motahkmikuhk in Maine, guest Chris Newell, Dartmouth '96, got into pow wow singing in college and helped found an intertribal drum group on campus. But it was an elective in world music that really awakened the performing spirit from this once-engineering major. Playing at more pow wows and circles, he made connections around the drum and ultimately was asked to join the professional touring group Mystic River and ultimately unenrolled from the College.His years getting to know a variety of native communities and their traditions led him to the public education world, specifically in the museum arena. An expert not only in the cultures and stories of his own community and that of his children, he is a sought-after expert in navigating public history and incorporating the voices of communities in projects.In this episode, find out from Chris how sometimes cutting one journey short can uncover the road to both your past and your future…on ROADS TAKEN…with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestChris Newell is Executive Director and Senior Partner to Wabanaki Nations at the Abbe Museum in Bar Harbor, Maine, where he works to center the voices of the Wabanaki people in telling their stories and sharing their traditions. He also co-founded the Akomawt Educational Initiative in response to observations of the public school system and the lack of representation of Native history and social studies and served for six years as the Education Supervisor for the Mashantucket Pequot Museum and Research Center.  Though a long-time member of the Mystic River singers, an internationally acclaimed and award-winning intertribal pow wow drum group based in Connecticut, he was drawn to pow wow singing as an undergraduate and helped found the intertribal Occom Pond Singers. As mentioned in this ROADS TAKEN interview, along with his work in education, Chris has also appeared in feature films and was the Senior Adviser on the Emmy winning documentary Dawnland , chronicling the historic first-ever government-sanctioned Truth and Reconciliation Commission in the State of Maine.  And did you know…? According to the Alumni Association constitution, membership includes “every person who has ever matriculated as a full-time student in pursuit of a Dartmouth degree” at the undergraduate College, even if that individual never graduates from the institution. Dartmouth still claims the beloved Fred Rogers as an alum, and he attended the College for only his freshman year. In our book, our beloved Chris is still a member of the great class of 1996. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows 

Guest Jeneen DiBenedetto Graham, Dartmouth '96, had been intrigued by the world of Independent Schools after college and so thought she was on the right path consulting and recruiting for independent schools.But after starting to question things and wondering who she was, she left her job and moved across country as a new wife and a new mother—both earlier than she’d envisioned. Feeling a loss of her own identity, she thought of where she most felt herself. She had to look no farther than her own backyard—literally—to find the University of California, Irvine and enrolled immediately. Though the road to her doctorate in education was longer than she thought, she emerged not only with a degree but a new sense of how and who she wanted to be in the world. And, wouldn’t you know, that had something to do with Independent Schools?In this episode, find out from Jeneen how sometimes doing something for yourself can actually put you on the path to serving others……on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestDr. Jeneen DiBenedetto Graham is Upper School Principal at St. Margaret's Episcopal School, an independent school in San Juan Capistrano, California. Previously, she was the Assistant Director of the Center for Research on Cognition and Learning at the University of California, Irvine. Her dissertation in educational psychology was entitled, “Elements of Human Effectiveness: Intelligences, Traits and Abilities that Lead to Success and Fulfillment in Life. Mentioned in this episode is the book The Defining Decade by Meg Jay. Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Pace Duckenfield, Dartmouth '96, had been pursuing a legal career in the telecom policy and regulation area—just as planned. But he also knew that he would need to make good on his commitment to the military. Instead of continuing to process security clearances—same process, different day—he decided that going active duty would help him develop more skills.Finding himself in the Middle East just after the U.S. invaded Iraq, his days were definitely anything but mundane. His work as an intelligence officer (and paratrooper) put him in contact with people from a wide variety of backgrounds and gave him the chance to learn volumes more than books would have provided, then his lust for lifelong learning pushed him into cyber operations and training.In this episode, find out from Pace how intelligence is one thing, but lifelong learning is another…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestPace Duckenfield is a Cyber and intelligence leader for the U.S. military, whose  focus has been on guiding teams to provide critical data collection and analysis for tactical, operational, and strategic uses. Set to retire from the military in 2021, his interests in cyber law may bring him full circle. Or perhaps another he’ll get a little intel about another opportunity and seize it.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Michelle Villalobos, Dartmouth '96, was hanging with Shakira, taking the Latin lifestyle publication biz by storm, and then launching her own consulting firm. But the vida ended up being a little too loca.  When she felt she hit bottom she realized she’d been listening to all the wrong voices and what looked cool and shiny on the outside didn’t really reflect the deeper truth somewhere under the surface.Uncovering her own truth, she found a path toward helping others align their own purpose and values with the lives they are meant to lead. In this episode,find out from Michelle how sometimes you need to quiet the outside noise and listen more carefully inside…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley About This Episode's GuestMichelle Villalobos is founder of Superstar Activator, a consultancy that empowers creative professionals to align their business with their purpose, desired lifestyle, and values. She is also the host of the “Awaken Your Inner Superstar” podcast. Find her at superstaractivator.com.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Gabe Schlumberger, Dartmouth '96, began his post-college life without a job, but with a nagging feeling that he needed to be creating. He set his sights on animation and worked hard to land at Pixar, adding his hand to some of the company's most iconic animated features. The advent of the iPhone led him to dabble in app development and ultimately in charge of digital efforts for Disney.So how does someone leave not one but two of the most recognizable names in the the entertainment industry ultimately to help launch and run a retail eyewear startup?  By continuing to pursue the things that intrigued him.In this episode, find out from Gabe how looking at things through the right lens often leads you to your own perfect fit.…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley About This Episode's GuestGabe Schlumberger is CEO of Fitz Frames, a 3D-printed eyewear company.  Find their full line of prescription, blue-light filtering, and sunglasses at Fitzframes.com and on social @FitzFrames.  Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian Burrows

Guest Sarah McAlister Woelfle, Dartmouth '96, began her post-college life as the first female team manager for the global pediatric health non-profit Operation Smile. Entrusted with the health and safety of scores of people at the age of 21 and seemingly living and breathing the work 'round the clock, she realized that—while she had gotten so much from the experience—she had given a lot, too.Recalibrating, she thought the corporate world would give her the international lifestyle she craved. But after business school, she found that the mountains in her native Colorado held an unexpected career in real estate and the lifestyle that fit with who she’d been all along.As they say in real estate: It’s all about location, location, location.  In this episode, find out from Sarah how the winding path just might bring you home…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley About this Episode's GuestSarah McAlister Woelfle has been a realtor in Aspen and its surrounding mountain communities for over 17 years.  With accolades to her name and a rich knowledge of her beloved Colorado, she is the natural choice for anyone interested in the housing market there. Find out more at sarahwoelfle.realscout.me    Music: Brian Burrows