Podcasts about Fullscreen

Phil Ranta, Chief Business Officer of Fixated and a LinkedIn Top Voice in Innovation & Technology, has over 18 years of experience in the creator economy. Formerly, he was the COO of the talent management and creator services company We Are Verified, managing a department focused on creator entrepreneurship, premium production, and web3 opportunities. As the former Head of Gaming Creators, North America at Facebook, Phil achieved over 5x departmental growth in his first year, signing exclusive streaming contracts with DisguisedToast, Corinna Kopf, and UFC / WWE superstar Ronda Rousey. Phil also built two of the largest creator networks in the world as COO at Studio71 and VP, Networks at Fullscreen, both successfully exited (to ProSieben and Otter Media, a joint venture between AT&T and Peter Chernin, respectively). Other roles include Head of Creators at Mobcrush, a live streaming technology with hundreds of thousands of authenticated users, Executive Producer at Viva! Vision, producing content delivered to over 250 million mobile phones worldwide, and content creator who produced videos and podcasts that have achieved hundreds of millions of views and downloads. He was formerly one of Variety's New Hollywood Leaders - Digital.

This week we are joined by returning guest Ashley Casseday (Keep It Weird/The Losers Club)! For Garrett and Ashley this movie welcomed them into adulthood far too soon. Kit on the other hand was finally able to transition into adulthood after seeing this for the first time in her mid 30's! It's time to breakout those scratched up Full Screen Unrated DVD's and see how much you actually remember from this bizarre 90's classic!

S2E19 of IMpulse: The Influencer Marketing Podcast

✨ Shadowbinders Pin Set Campaign - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nydaria/shadowbinders-steampunk-fantasy-hard-enamel-pin-set-series-1 Is nature healing? Burnie Burns has reacquired Rooster Teeth, and it looks like he's going to attempt to resuscitate the brand -- minus RWBY, most likely, as Viz Media bought that a year or two ago. Most of Rooster Teeth's problems can be traced back to the founders selling out to Fullscreen and the company winding up as part of the Hollywood system.

Possibly the shortest notes we've ever had... We talked about the Oregon/Ohio St. game A LOT, plus ESPN GAMEDAY Sopranos (The show, not the range of a singer) Crow vs Days Creek Make sure to check out our socials in the credits, our website, DefinitelyNotSellingDrugs.com, and hit up the My Show archives at BADFACTS.INFO and get that digital download going wherever you find podcasts. You can also find our video through Spotify, but you're here with us now, so... --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/myshowaj/support

The boys come back for some talk on the games of October, The Plucky Squire, how to (not) sound robotic, and other whimsical topics of the moment! Show Segments: 00:00 - Intro 2:30 - Graham's Games 26:48 - Steve's Games 1:10:50 - October's Games 1:26:02 - Beginning of the End Games Mentioned: Satisfactory Sumerian Six The Plucky Squire Caravan SandWitch Anger Foot Ghost of Tsushima: Director's Cut Kaku: Ancient Seal Fallen Leaf Boons & Burdens The Sacred Acorn TerraScape Nobody Wants to Die Episode's YouTube Video: This episode on YouTube SIPTG YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/shouldiplaythisgamequestionmark Music by Kevin MacLeod: https://incompetech.com/music

Shield your mind from EMF's with the Ronin 10foil Baseball Hat— https://roninbasics.com/product/10foil-faraday-baseball-hat/ ----more---- In The Adams Archive, we go beyond the surface to uncover the real stories shaping our world. Each episode dissects current events, political maneuvers, and hidden agendas, forcing you to see the world from a new perspective. Here's what we dive into: Key Themes: Media Manipulation & MrBeast's Silence: What's really happening behind the scenes of YouTube's biggest star, MrBeast? We discuss his 30-day silence following the revelation that his trans co-host was allegedly involved in child grooming, and we investigate the mysterious sources of his immense wealth. Are powerful backers influencing the content and messages pushed on his platform? Political Power Plays: RFK Jr. Endorses Trump & the JFK Files: Explore the unexpected alliance between RFK Jr. and Donald Trump, including Trump's promise to release the remaining JFK assassination files. We dive into the implications of this endorsement and why RFK Jr. suspended his campaign in key states to avoid splitting the vote. Censorship & the Arrest of Telegram's Founder: Why was Telegram's founder, Pavel Durov, arrested in France, and what does it mean for freedom of speech? We break down the charges against him, including the alleged complicity in criminal activities due to Telegram's refusal to censor its platform. The Propaganda of Kamala's Amazon Hat Trick: How did Kamala Harris's campaign manage to dominate Amazon's “Top New Release” list with barely any sales or reviews? We reveal the manipulation behind these numbers and discuss what it says about the state of political marketing and propaganda in the digital age. Dystopian Realities: North Korea's Utopia Conspiracy & the Defection of a U.S. Soldier: Could North Korea be hiding a secret utopia? We examine theories suggesting that the isolated nation is sitting on untapped trillions and advanced technologies, contrasting them with the bizarre defection of a U.S. soldier who fled there claiming racial discrimination in the U.S. Army.   Join the conversation that challenges everything you think you know. Subscribe to The Adams Archive on your favorite podcast platform, and follow us on YouTube, Substack, and social media for more in-depth content. Your support makes a difference—thank you for being part of our journey. All the Links: For direct access to all our content and platforms, visit linktr.ee/theaustinjadams. ----more---- Full Transcription  The Adams Archive.  Hello, beautiful people, and welcome to The Adams Archive. My name is Austin Adams, and thank you so much for listening today. On today's episode, we're going to be doing not one, but two deep dives, starting off the episode by looking at the most recent news about Mr. Beast. Now, it has officially been one month, and  For since Mr. Beast has come out and stated publicly that he knew that the transsexual  person that was working for him was allegedly grooming children.  Now it's been 30 days. So we want to see what he's up to. And I will tell you what he's been up to. And that will lead us into a further discussion about where this man even gets his money from.  So that's how we're going to start the show off. Once we move through that topic, we're going to discuss about how the CEO of Telegram, the founder of Pavel, has been arrested in France. And now the official charges are out. So we will take a look at that. Some of the things that people have said surrounding that situation and more. We'll also take a look at the RFK Jr. endorsement, some of the situations that have come of that, including him losing his secret service detail as a result.  Then we will transition into some of the propaganda. And, uh, we've seen around the Kamala Harris, Tim walls campaign that has now found its way to Amazon hats.  You might be curious and I was too. So we'll talk about that too. Then we will finalize our discussion here today with a U S soldier who fled to North Korea, defected to North Korea, who is a part of the U S army because he said, quote unquote, the way that they treated minorities. And that  will lead us into a very, very untouchable topic, which is the idea of North Korea being a utopia. We've seen all this propaganda, we've seen all of the conversations that the government has told us to believe about North Korea, all of the silly videos that have come out as a result from their leader, Kim Jong Un. But I have some questions. So we will talk about the Somewhat compelling, somewhat,  I don't know what to call it. I wouldn't say it's satirical, but I would say it's an interesting thought experiment. Uh, so we will talk about the possibility that North Korea is a utopia because apparently  according to many resources, or according to many, uh, online resources, they are sitting on trillions of dollars,  trillions of dollars of resources themselves.  So all of that and more, but first, I need you to do one thing for me, which is I need you to subscribe, leave a five star review wherever you're at, you can actually watch this podcast on YouTube, if you would like, and you can subscribe there too. Once you do that, I want you to head over to Ronan basics. com. Ronan is my company. That is a Faraday goods company. And we offer things like phone sleeves that protect your digital footprint, eliminate your digital footprint hats that block EMF radiation from being able to reach your brain  in more. So head over to Ronan basics. com. Go check it out. Protect yourselves from the harmful. Technology that is surrounding us all of the time that the government is trying to hide from you. And I don't say that like,  I'm not trying to be a alarmist in that. It's very, very real. I've been doing a lot of research on this. I did a 5g episode. Um, I've done a lot of research on EMFs more recently since I launched the company and even before it's the reason I launched my company was because there was so many, article so many people talking about it and so many scientific studies with have proven that there are serious harmful side effects to the technology that you have that you're listening to this on that you could be even driving at this moment, your Wi Fi router, the 5g nodes that you see literally in toxifying  your visual Space all the time when you're driving, I see all of these 5g towers, and it's the ugliest thing in the world. But that's not the worst of it. The worst of it is that it can cause terrible things like cancer, insomnia, heart palpitations, heart issues, so many, so many things, a literal laundry list,  laundry list of health effects, and the ways that it can harm you and your loved ones. So head over to Ronan basics. com. Check it out, get yourself our 10 foil Faraday hat looks beautiful, and And you'll protect yourself from EMF radiation. It has silver lined fabric, which does that for you. Uh, so go check it out. Ronanbasics. com sign up for our newsletter there. You'll get 10 percent off. And if you leave your phone number, you'll get 15 percent off. And I promise I won't text you personally, at least late at night. And you will actually get a 15 percent off coupon just for adding your number. So all of that more stick around in without further ado, let's get started. Jump into it.  It has officially been 30 days since Mr. Beast came out and said that he had become aware of serious allegations surrounding his co host, Chris, the transsexual who was grooming children.  Now, if you're curious what Mr. Beast has been up to in those 30 days, Let's take a look and see what he has been doing. Now, here is the tweet from MrBeast, which says, 29 days ago,  well, the 24th, so coming up on, uh, 31 days. He said, Over the last few days, I've become aware of serious allegations of Ava Tysons, not Chris Ava. That's the name.  I think it was Chris before, now it's Ava. Um,  Ava Tyson's behavior online, and I'm disgusted and opposed to such unacceptable acts. I would hope so. You're talking about children here. During that time, I have been focused on hiring an independent third party to conduct a thorough investigation to ensure I have all the facts. That said, I've seen enough online and taken immediate action to remove Ava from the company, my channel, and any association with Mr. Beast. I do not condone or support any of the inappropriate actions. I will allow the independent investigators the necessary time to conduct a  comprehensive investigation and will take further actions based on their findings. This was seen by a hundred and six million people.  Now I have one question as a result of that.  Where's the thorough investigation? Where's the thorough investigation, Mr. Beast? We should be able to know that you weren't hiding this from the general public while also  getting hundreds of millions of views and money. From all of these online sources, including the time that our children, the time that adults have been spending watching your videos while you have been at least passively aware. Of what this man was doing to these children.  So where's the investigation, Mr. Beast? We want to know.  Also, let's take a look at what you've been up to for these 30 days since this post, because you haven't posted a thing on Twitter. You haven't updated us at all  in regards to the information surrounding this allegation for the person that you hired and kept around and, and brought a focus around. Right. And so when you think that there's these huge, literally  the most publicly known.  Transsexual,  besides Caitlyn Jenner,  is Mr. B's co host, Ava, or Chris, whatever his name is, right? The most well known, the most in the public eye, the most seen,  was Mr. B's co host. And so when you have something that's so in the public sphere, when you have something that's being pushed by the government, and by the, the, the social, uh, Being that is the grossness of our society's, you know, who, who controls our society.  We're not going to get into that today. Sorry, guys, but you might know what I'm talking about when you get into the idea of where these social constructs come from and how they're being publicly pushed with funneled with hundreds of billions of dollars to push these ideologies to crumble our society from inside.  Once you realize that, and then you look at the people who.  Who are engaged in this at the most visual level. This is the one. This is the one. This is the one your kids know about. This is the one who hundreds of millions of children watched Mr. Beast condone this transsexual being pushed in front of them, wearing makeup, putting on women's clothes, and then passing himself off as a woman when really all he was was a pedophile, weirdo.  That's the reality, right? So when you realize that, and then you look at him, not updating us, not making a single statement, not saying a thing about this for 30 full days.  Well, he had to been up to something, right? He had to have some, some serious investigations going on on his side, at least I would hope so. So let's take a look at his YouTube channel and see in the last 30 days that Mr. Beast has been silent about the transsexual that was a part of his team for years. Years, years and years and years.  What has he been up to? Well,  let's go ahead and take a look  in the last 30 days.  Here are Mr. Beast's post.  Well,  he had 50 YouTubers fight for 100 million.  I've gathered 50 of the biggest YouTubers on the planet. And whichever one lasts the longest in this cube wins that million dollars for their subscribers.  Never before seen in YouTube history. One billion subscribers worth of YouTubers are competing for one million dollars. And the rules are simple. All right, put the camera down. Close the line.  Okay.  So, if you step on the red line, you lose your subscribers a million dollars. So be careful. Last to leave Okay, so there's one thing he was doing, which was challenging a bunch of YouTubers for a million dollars to stay in a box.  That's what was more interesting than him investigating his team. Let's see number two. I just built this bunker and these two people who have never met each other are going to attempt to live down here for the next 100 days. Take your blindfolds off. Hugo, this is Rayne. Rayne, this is Hugo. This is our first time ever meeting, and this is the nuclear bunker. They will call home. Everything you would need to live for the next 100 days is in this bunker. Dang. You can even grow your own vegetables. Oh, cool. And if you come over here, you'll find your bedroom all 40 feet underground. Wait, what? Oh my God. Above you is a bed. Nice. And here's another bed and moose. Okay. There's another thing. He's been up to blocking two people in a pseudo bunker, 40 feet under the ground for another. 500, 000. So there's 1. 5 million this man is giving away. He has to be rich from what?  We'll look in a minute.  And what else has he been up to? Well,  during the time that he should have been investigating  this pedophile on his team, he also  I don't normally do intros like this, but I'm currently descending hundreds of feet into a cave that runs over five kilometers deep into the earth.  And whether we like it or not, as soon as my friends and I touched the ground,  we are officially stranded here for the next seven days.  That might've been the scariest thing I've ever done. First things.  All right. So  There you have it. That's what he's been up to. Instead of truly investigating, maybe, I don't know, contemplating, soul searching as to why he held this pedophile so close to him for so long and had no idea. No idea at all.  Or did he? Because many people allege that he was aware of these actions.  And now, I'm not somebody who's trying to hate on Mr. Beast. I think he's trying to His videos are phenomenal. I think that the work that he's been able to do and build his, his following is amazing,  but I have some questions.  What else are you been up to? Well, these things don't seem to be as important as gaining back the loyalty from the parents who let their children watch you or the parents themselves who watch this guy's seen by everybody. He's not just seen by children, right? This is that, but a big, vast. large percentage of his audience happens to be children who he enabled this trans person to be around constantly gave them the platform that gave them the power over these children  made this person a celebrity all while this pedophile was pretending to be a woman validated that to his audience  and then acts so surprised when that person actually ends up being a pedophile  Hmm.  That's weird.  Very weird.  So where does this man get his money? He gave away 1. 5 million. 1. 5 million in just two weeks there, according to those two videos.  Interesting.  So let's look here.  Now, somebody alleges this was one year ago. YouTuber MrBeast is funded by people with deep pockets.  Who could those people be?  Because he's definitely not making all of his money from YouTube. You don't spend that much money producing a video and then give away that much money and with 30 million views on YouTube, 40 million, 50 million, 90 million.  Make it all back every single time. Like he's definitely losing money on a lot of this. So here we go. So did you know that Osman Gold and Mr. Beast along belong to the same talent agency and that they are both directly connected to Disney and Amazon?  Today, I learned that a company named Knight Media literally manages basically every single Zoomer E celebrity, including Hasan Piker, Nikolulu, Dream, and these guys. If you ever look at the YouTube trending tab, at least one of Knight's talents will be up there. Knight Media is a subsidiary of Knight Inc. Itself is valued in the hundreds of millions of dollars from venture capitalists and angel investors.  Who owns Knight? Well, the CEO of Knight Media is Reid Dusher. who formerly worked for the NFL and then went to be the Dude Perfect's manager. The president of the night is Ezra Cooperstein, who is previously the president of Fullscreen and Rooster Teeth, as well as Maker Studios, which is now part of Disney Digital Network.  Ironically, neither of these guys are the real talent managers, as that position is for their 90 employees, including Andrew Pelosi, a former higher up at Influential. What is Influential? Influential is an AI, social data, and conversion technology. As well as a developer partner of IBM Watson and a Facebook marketing partner. Utilizing a network of over 1 million social media influencers as a tactic for distribution, Influential runs both native and paid campaigns on Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, and YouTube for Fortune 500 brands. Influential is owned by Jeremy Steinberg.  Night Inc. is directly financed by the Sherman Group, aka TCG, one of its executive members being Alexandra Moore, a former executive from Amazon who focused on mergers and acquisitions. However, TCG itself is financed by Providence Equity, an ECG compliance private equity investment firm valued over 300  billion.  All this information is freely available. I literally just ran names off of LinkedIn and read business articles.  Hmm.  So.  One of them, Felipe Neto, is now the most powerful man in Brazil. He profited off of every single political trend over the bizarre last decade. He's the architect of YouTube content system. His business has gone so deep into Portugal that some kids are speaking Brazilian Portuguese.  Hmm.  Somebody else said, dead internet. Right? Have you ever heard of the dead internet theory? Basically, that everybody and anybody that you interact with on the internet is fake. And that the internet essentially turned into a strip mall from the world itself, where you only have several small choices as to where to go at any given time, essentially. Very interesting theory.  Uh, let's see. What else we got in here. So, the people who fund this are essentially worth over 300, 000.  It's not this like boots from the ground, you know, bootstrapping YouTube channel. This guy is backed by huge money. He's not just taking all of his money and funneling it back into there from ad campaigns being ran on his YouTube channel. There is very, very powerful people behind Mr. Beast. It's not this, you know,  from the ground up type of thing.   So all of that to say, that you should at least be  considering the idea that maybe this man isn't as organic as he seems. Maybe you should be considering the idea that some of the themes that he's going to promote in his videos aren't themes that he wants to promote personally. Even some of the people that he puts on his team,  a la Ava, may not be there because it's what's in the best interest for your children, for you, for society to have involved. And, at the end of the day, this man has done nothing to come out and say, here's what the investigators have found. Nothing.  And that's what,  I guess we'll have to wait and see. Is he hoping, is he, what it looks like to me is that he's playing the PR game where they just tell you, shut up and it'll go away.  Well, shut up and it will go away may work for many things. I don't think it exactly works for you promoting a pedophile to hundreds of millions of people during a, as a Trojan horse  through the trans movement. And by movement, I mean the trans mind virus.  That is permeating our culture right now.  And isn't it funny that almost every single time you see these people in the public eye, they eventually are on Fox news for being arrested for something.  Interesting.  Interesting.  All right. Now that leads us to another topic, kind of in the public sphere as of late, although this one seems to be a little bit more about censorship, which is that the official charges have been released  against the telegram founder, Pavel Durov. during his arrest in France. And here they,  Durov is facing up to 20 years in prison.  Now here are the charges. And almost every single one of these has the word complicity.  What they're trying to essentially state is that by not censoring people,  that he is in, that he is in violation of their country's laws. By not censoring them. Okay. Complicity Web Mastering an online platform enable to enable an illegal transaction, an organized group refusal to communicate at the request of competent authorities.  Okay. Competent is an interesting word there for them. Complicity, possessing pornographic images of minors, complicity, distributing, offering, or making available pornographic images of miners.  Complicity. Acquiring, transporting, or possessing, offering, or selling narcotic substances. So they're basically saying anything and everything that's been done illegal on our platform, on your platform, unless you comply with us, we're going to come after you for everything anybody's ever done on the platform because you didn't listen to us and you didn't censor these people.  That's what they're saying. Complicity, organized fraud. Complicity, making selling or making available without legitimate reason, tools, programs, or data designed for or adapted to get access to or damage the operation of automated data processing systems. Wow. That's a stretch. Criminal association with a view. To committing a crime or an offense punishable by five more years of imprisonment, laundering of the proceeds  derived from organized groups, offenses, or crimes, providing cryptology services amid to ensure confidentiality without certified declaration, providing a cryptology tool, not solely ensuring authentication or integrity monitoring without prior declaration, importing a cryptology tool, ensuring authenticity or integrating monitoring without prior  declaration.  Wow.  So,  Now somebody warned, I believe it was somebody that was, uh, had spoken out against  Trump before. I don't know, that was just the headline that I read. But essentially they were warning that, oh well, Elon Musk, you might be next. And that's like, if this holds up in court, on the court of law, in this country, yeah.  If they're just gonna come after you for anything and everything anybody's ever done on your platform unless you comply with their censorship,  Then yes, absolutely. They're going to go after Elon. They should go after Mark Zuckerberg. They're going to go after literally everybody and anybody who hosts any large website or platform.  That's the reality of this. But guess what? It's only going to be applied specifically to people who they don't like or who don't do exactly what they want. And the second that you step out of line, we're going to jail you for it. Not for something that you did, but for something that you Allowed to happen within your platform,  right? Like you're supposed to be able to watch hundreds of millions of people's actions and  do something about every single one of them all of the time.  Crazy.  Somebody said, Same can be said about any messaging platform ever, including the postal service. That's a great point, right? So if this guy has to go to jail, so does everybody involved in the USPS  offices. Great point.  All of it could be true. Some of it could be true. None of it could be true. None of that matters when you have the machine against you.  Now this guy's going to jail before literally anybody is going to jail for Epstein's List.  Isn't that interesting?  Now, transitioning over to Trump and RFK Jr. Now, Trump, uh, RFK Jr. suspended his campaign in the states that he said, um, would affect the potentially affect the outcome in a negative way towards Trump.  So he essentially said, I'm going to suspend my, my campaign in these states. Now, the reason that he did that  was actually quite interesting because he said, there's still a chance  that he could potentially, if Kamala, And Donald Trump essentially tie in electoral votes that it could come down to a potential, uh,  a runoff race, right? Where he could actually, if he remains on the ballot, could still have a chance to become president. So he said, I'm going to pull out of every state that  would potentially negatively affect Trump. As a result, he's hoping  that he could find himself in a position in office under Trump.  Now, during this time,  Trump accepted RFK Jr. 's endorsement and he vowed, Trump vowed to release the JFK assassination files.  Now, it says,  Hours after being endorsed by third party candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Donald Trump said he would release all of the remaining documents pertaining to the assassination of John F. Kennedy if he were elected president in November, as part of a proposed new commission on presidential assassination attempts, including The one that targeted him. Now, if you recall, it may have been my last podcast or potentially the one before it,  but I said this, he would be crazy not to release these documents. They literally, the same people that killed Bobby Kennedy, that killed John F. Kennedy, all of them are likely involved. At least the agencies, because some of those people are going to be dead at this point,  are very likely involved in Donald Trump's assassination.  It says, speaking at a rally in Glendale. Arizona, Trump also pledged that if elected, he would establish a panel of top experts that would work with Kennedy, a prominent anti vaccine advocate, this says, to investigate childhood health problems,  as they should.  Now, when you go back and you listen to RFK's speech that he did, pulling out of it, I think Robert F. Kennedy's speech was one of the greatest speeches in history. Ever in politics by any politician ever. And honestly, if you've been listening to me for quite some time, you know, that I have considered for a very long time voting for Robert F. Kennedy jr. And this speech solidified why I felt that way.  Everything that is wrong with politics is embodied in one way or another in each of the candidates that are left. And one being completely corrupt, terribly unequipped  to take office, absolutely a puppet for the establishment, and the other being pretty divisive. Now again, I voted for Donald Trump. I'll vote for Donald Trump again. I voted for him the last two elections. Now that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is out of the way.  But I just want you to go listen to To RFK jr speech and not understand like there's no way you don't understand why he's a compelling candidate that man is the only man not wearing a mask in some way shape or form and maybe  trump isn't wearing a mask maybe it's just has a mask on all the time and that's what he was just he's born a character and i think that's probably more the case than anything but i do think that rfk jr has the perfect  the only person that had the ability to potentially unite our nation. He had a ton of popularity among Republicans. He had a ton of popularity among Democrats, like true Democrats, not the far left that we see in today's politics.  His speech was amazing. It was unbelievable. 80 percent of it was about corruption in the health, that we need to the health issues we need to address in our country today. And he had tears running from his eyes by the end of it, because he's truly a good person. And he truly understands the weight of what this election will bring. And  it would be terribly sad to see another eight years go by without RFK. holding some very, very prominent position in office because he is one of the only real politicians that we've come across in the last 30 years.  So this goes on to say that Kennedy, the scion of one of the most country's famous democratic political dynasties, got a roar of approval from Republicans when he joined Trump on stage at the Republican campaign rally in Glendale. Bobby, Bobby, the crowd chanted. Kennedy had announced earlier that he's suspending his campaign. Da, la, la, la, la. Now, the hope would be that Kennedy would be put in charge of, here's my hope, I hope Robert F. Kennedy Jr. gets put in charge of the CIA, because that would be the ultimate hope. Fuck you, from his family, back to the people that planned his assassination.  That would be absolute justice, and I hope he would clean it up, or obliterate it, shatter it into the wind into a thousand pieces, like his uncle said that they should.  Now, more realistically, he could find himself a part of the,  um, the health administrations, including the, overseeing the WHO, the NIH, well not the WHO, but the NIH, um, and all of the, uh, Uh, the FCC,  uh, overseeing children's food in school systems, uh, being able to ban the dyes that are permeating all of our food, see the oils that he talks about constantly, like this man is the epitome, he's 70 years old, and he's jacked, super healthy guy, is outside all the time,  he would be amazing in that position, and he truly, truly cares. Which is all you can ask for in today's modern political environment.  Just don't be fake. Don't be fake. Don't be corrupt. Don't be  evil. Like I think these are pretty basic things, but it's very, very hard to come by  in today's modern political environment.  Name three people that you can think of that are like true.  Now, one of those other people that come to mind  would be Tulsi Gabbard. Another Democrat that I would have considered a great pick for VP. Um, I think a lot of Republicans tend to agree with that statement.  But Tulsi Gabbard would be a phenomenal pick for VP. I really wish he would have picked her over Vance. I don't have any affinity for Vance, I don't have any malice either, but I just, I don't see him as a very excitable character to the general public. I think Tulsi would have been a huge, huge win for Trump's campaign.  Uh, but anyways, Tulsi Gabbard has now come out and endorsed Donald Trump. So the two most likeable, most Politicians in the Democratic Party are now backing Donald Trump. And I think those are the two biggest people that he could have got to back him. Like what's next, Bernie Sanders? Like that's about all that's left to endorse Trump for him to completely, uh, obliterate the Democratic Party.  Now, one thing that came out of this is that the Biden Harris administration had revoked the secret service protection of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. So immediately following RFK endorsing Trump,  Biden and Harris pulled RFK's  Secret Service.  Detail that was protecting him from the multiple assassination attempts that have happened on his life over the last  few months, you know, like weeks after actually giving it to him. Um, now to be fair, even though Biden pulled his security detail,  I think at this point, if I had the money, I would probably buy my own security detail. If I was Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Because after the horrible comedy that was watching Donald Trump almost get assassinated under the protection of the secret service. Maybe that's not the bodyguard that you truly want if people are actually trying to kill you.  So there's that. Now here's Tulsi Gabbard endorsing Donald Trump. Go ahead and pull that up for you.  Uh, this comes from the post millennial. Uh, it says on Monday, speaking at the National Guard Association alongside 2024 GOP presidential candidate, Donald Trump, former democratic house Republican or house representative Tulsi Gabbard announced her endorsement of Trump. Now this makes it even better. The fact that Tulsi Gabbard. Endorsed. Donald Trump is so much sweeter when you understand that she was the one who completely obliterated, just destroyed Kamala Harris on stage to where you never saw her again after Tulsi Gabbard went after her in the debates,  and here it is. Let's watch it.  So, I mean, what I say when I share with you that I know that President Trump understands the grave responsibility that a president and commander in Chief Bears for every single one of our lives. Whether you're a soldier, you're an airman, a marine, sailor, or a coastie, he keeps us in his heart in the decisions that he makes.  We saw this through his first term in the presidency,  when he not only didn't start any new wars, he took action to de escalate and prevent wars. He exercised the courage that we expect from our Commander in Chief. In exhausting all measures of diplomacy,  having the courage to meet with adversaries, dictators, allies, and partners alike in the pursuit of peace, seeing war as a last resort.  The truth is, as we head towards our decision as a country in November, the same cannot be said about Kamala Harris.  In fact, the opposite is true. And we're living through this reality today as.  This administration has us facing multiple wars on multiple fronts and regions around the world, and closer to the brink of nuclear war than we ever have been before.  This is one of the main reasons why I'm committed to doing all that I can to send President Trump back to the White House where he can once again serve us as our commander in chief.  And there you go. Tulsi Gabbard has endorsed Donald,  uh, said, uh, go ahead and just read a purse short part of this here. Um,  this is personal for me. She said recounting her experiences in Iraq in 2005 with the Hawaii army national guard and how there was a sadness as we boarded the plane when we left. That we were leaving some of our brothers and sisters behind only to lose others. When we got home to suicide,  uh, she said, I am proud to stand here before you today, whether you're a Democrat, Republican, or an independent, if you love your country, as I do, if you cherish peace and freedom as we do, I invite you to join me in doing all that we can to save our country and elect. Donald Trump.  There you go.  So  two people that I actually think hold weight with their audience.  Tulsi Gabbard.  Uh,  And I think to me, she's probably one of the only, like, it's funny that the two Democrats that I would actually consider voting for that I actually think has any real personality to them that is actually speaking from their heart and is actually being a, a real true American  just so happen to be the people that endorse Trump.  Now, I don't think that's any coincidence because everybody else is just paid off or disingenuous or there for a power grab or whatever it is.  So let's move on.  Now,  you,  I don't even know how to start this because it's so ridiculous to me.  Do you know what's listed as the number like 43 top sold hat on Amazon?  You want to talk about propaganda when it comes to Kamala Harris, like they've made her this absolute star. Now this just shows exactly how ridiculous the propaganda is and how fake.  This shows exactly how fake Kamala Harris's entire popularity is. Go to Amazon right now.  Look at the top 100 hats  that have been sold in the last month.  And it doesn't have to be what's been sold, obviously, as you'll see here in just a second. But when you look at the top 100 hats sold on Amazon right now, one of them that comes up is this hat right here.  Here you go.  Now, if you can't see my screen right now, it's a Harris Walls 2024 hat.  Now this is listed as the number one new release hat on Amazon,  which is funny because there's only one rating on this hat, one five star review on this hat, and it's the number one new released men's baseball hat.  One star, huh?  That's weird. Almost as fake as the people that were on the tarmac when Kamala Harris got out of her airplane.  Now you want to know why this is interesting is because somebody else I know so happens to have a newly released  hat on Amazon.  If you go to number one released  on men's baseball hats, you will see. That the number one hat is Harris. Well, this is the entire  number one released. Amazon hot new releases of baseball hats. Number one, Kamala Harris walls. Number two, Kamala. Number four, Kamala. Number five, Kamala. Number six, Kamala. Number seven, eight, nine,  ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,  sixteen,  nineteen, twenty,  twenty one, twenty two, twenty three, twenty four.  You're telling me,  on Amazon,  out of the top 22 hats released in the last month, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 18  of the top 22 hats on Amazon in the new releases are all about Kamala Harris?  Especially when you see that of those 18 hats that are in the top releases of hats, there's a total combined  eight stars that have been,  that have been given to these hats. Eight total purchases verified on Amazon for the top 18 of 22 hats on Amazon. 18 out of the top 22 hats on Amazon right now of the new releases are Kamala Harris, and they have a total combined purchased of. Eight total purchases.  Now you want to know why I know that's bullshit? Because guess what? I own a hat company called Ronin that just released on the same timeframe as these and my hats have more reviews and more purchases than every single one of these hats. Every single one of them. My hats aren't listed on this top 100 list, but guess what? 35  different variations of Kamala Harris on the hat. Are the top new releases for men's baseball hats.  That's interesting to me.  Hilarious actually. And what's even funnier is that the number three,  you know, of the top 10 on here,  nine of them are for Kamala Harris, but the one that's make America great again for Donald Trump has 28 reviews while the Kamala Harris ones have a combined.  Like 11, 10 reviews. So the number three has 28 times more reviews than any of the other ones.  But it's number three compared to number one is Harris Walls.  Especially when you see that the Harris Walls hats are like camouflage. Like, I'm sorry, nobody's buying a camo Harris Walls hat.  Nobody.  Hilarious.  So.  If you want to buy a real hat and support a real company with real values,  you can actually go to Amazon right now and you can look at it on your screen. If you're here on, uh, on YouTube with us, and here is my hat. You can look up Ronan Faraday hat. It will be the number one thing that comes up. It's a black hat that is a silver lined fabric, EMF blocking  Now it's also just so happens to be the best looking hat on Amazon right now as well. But my hat has more stars than the number 1, number 2, number 4, number 5, number 6, number 7, number 8. More purchases, guaranteed,  than all of those Harris Kamala hats.  Uh, Kamala Harris hats that are on Amazon right now. But for some reason, we don't show up on that list. Now that's interesting,  very interesting.  So if you want to protect yourself from EMFs, you want to give the middle finger to Kamala Harris and the propaganda arm that is Amazon trying to push this type of merchandise onto the general public. Like they're not only doing it with Amazon. AI generated photos. They're not only propping up Kamala Harris by putting Beyonce songs and Taylor Swift behind her and all of these fake propaganda videos where you see her in in what looks like packed arenas that are there for her with all these signs. No, they're there for the entertainment that they paid tens.  millions of dollars to even show up there because they know that's the only way anybody's going to show up to their campaign.  So if you're sick of the tomfoolery and you want to support a real brand go to amazon right now  and buy one of my hats. Ronin, Faraday hats on amazon. And while you're there leave a review so you can let them know too That we have way more people buying our stuff than Kamala Harris does.  Alright, anyways, let's move on.  But, let me tell you how infuriating that is.  It is infuriating if you know how much time, how much energy, how much effort has gone into me launching my hat company and then realizing  all I needed to do was make a Kamala hat. And everybody would flock to buy it, but nobody would review it. And it would also be in the number one new released hats. All I had to do is put, maybe I should, should I put Kamala's name on my Ronin hats, just so that Amazon would put it to the top of the new releases.  Do you think it would work? Maybe, maybe I will  just kidding. I would definitely not do that. I promise. I would never do that.  All right.  Last topic of the day,  uh, is the fact that there was a U S soldier,  uh,  Here it is. U. S. soldier, a United States soldier fled to North Korea,  fled to North Korea, and will plead guilty to desertion and other criminal charges.  Now, the reason that he fled to North Korea will shock you.  If you know anything about North Korea,  it will rattle you.  Now, here we go. Here's the first article. I believe this one came out. Well, let's, let's, let's start from the beginning. Let's start from the beginning, August 17th,  uh, August 15th, sorry, Pentagon disputes Pyongyang's acclaim. So, so North Korea claims that this U. S. soldier fled to them  because he sought refuge in North Korea from the United States. Now, that's really interesting when you understand that all the people, all of the people, Who are defectors of North Korea, say that it's the worst place possible.  Now, number one, how did this guy get into North Korea? Because the border is supposed to be like, shoot on sight, essentially. Number two, why would he think that that's a safer place than, I don't know, the United States of America?  Interesting.  Let's go ahead and read this article. Says the Pentagon cannot verify claims by North Korea  that U. S. soldier Travis T. King willingly sought refuge in the North to escape racial discrimination in the U. S. Army.  So this kid fled the army, this soldier fled the army to North Korea because of discrimination. That's how soft our military members are today. That's how soft they are. They think that they're being discriminated against in the military, which, by the way, really doesn't happen. When you're in the military,  I'm a veteran, when you're in the military, literally nobody acknowledges color. Like, nobody.  That you're all in it together when you're in boot camp, when you're in tech school, when you're deployed, when you're on base together, when you're all hanging out, it is a big, huge, like melting pot of people is the least discriminatory culture that you'll ever find in your entire life. Like everybody's just. It's a brotherhood. Nobody cares what color you are. Nobody cares where you came from, what ethnicity you are, what your, your history is, is, growing up, where, like, nobody cares about any of that stuff. You're there for a mission, and you do that mission. That's all you care about.  So, the Pentagon says it cannot verify claims by North Korea that the U. S. soldier Travis T. King willingly sought refuge in North Korea to escape North Korea. Racial discrimination in the U. S. Army, a senior defensive, by the way, there's probably a big list of places that if you were actually trying to flee the U. S. Army from discrimination, Yeah, probably not going to North Korea. Like, there's a lot of places that I would go first before I fled to North Korea. Unless, this man knows something that we don't know, which brings us to our next topic of North Korea as a utopia. Which we will get to in a minute. Um, King dashed into the North while on a civilian tour of the Joint Security Area on the heavily fortified border between North Koreas. Or to the Koreas, US officials have said they believe King crossed the border intentionally in the first public acknowledgement of the incident. North Korea State media reported Wednesday that Kings confessed to crossing in the North Korea because of inhumane maltreatment and racial discrimination within the US Army. Now there's a lot of dumb guys in the army.  . I was in the Air Force, so I can say that  there's a lot of dumb guys in the army. That's the running joke, at least. But you have to be the dumbest guy in the army if you flee to North Korea because of racial discrimination. Like,  I'm sorry, you're literally the only black person in this entire country.  You're probably going to get way more discriminated against than the military, which is like 40%, 30 percent black.  It says, North Korea investigators have also now concluded that King crossed deliberately and illegally with the intent to stay in North Korea or in a third country state news agency. K C N A set. During the investigation, Travis King confessed that he had decided to come over as he harbored ill feelings against his inhumane maltreatment and racial discrimination within the U. S. Army. And by the way, if you feel that way in the Army, like,  you're going to the legal council. Like, there's so many ways that you can bring that to your, you can go talk to your first shirt. You can, there's, there's so many channels for you to, like, I understand if you're at a, uh, you  Small company and you don't like the HR isn't existent and it's a mom and pop shop and you're like, fuck you guys I'm leaving and you run across the street to a you know, a different company to file an application But like you're in the military that the the  HR in the military is like the worst to deal with ever like you're gonna You're gonna get fired Get places every single person will get written up so quick, especially in today's modern social media.  Uh, he also expressed his willingness to seek refuge in DPRK or a third country saying that he was disillusioned as at the unequal American society.  The senior defense official who spoke with Fox News said North Korea has not communicated anything about Private King to U. N. command and anyone in the U. S. military. The official said there is no reason to trust what North Korea's state media is reporting. The reclusive communist regime, which frequently issues, uh, bellicose threats against the United States, South Korea, and Japan exerts total control over its media. Okay. So there's the first article. The second article.  This one came, uh, Just two days ago says that the mother of Travis King says he has so many reasons to come home from North Korea  The mother of the American soldier Travis King who spent more than a month inside North Korea says he has so many reasons to come home  Claudine Gates made the comments  to the Associated Press, uh, that they're continuing to work to bring the 23 year old son back to American soil after he ran into North Korea on Julythis is the craziest story ever  that he ran into North Korea, uh, and stayed there for a month. Because of racial discrimination in the military. I just can't see him ever wanting to stay in Korea when he has family in America. He has so many reasons to come home. I'm not mad at you, Travis. I just want you to come home, she added. He has a whole life ahead of him. He's still a young man. I just want my baby home. Come back from North Korea, King.  The Pentagon said last week that it could not verify claims by North Korea that King, a U. S. Army private, willingly sought refuge in the North to escape racial discrimination within the service branch's rank. A senior defense official told Fox News on August 15th that the Pentagon had no contact with King and does not know his current condition.  In the first public acknowledgment of the incident, North Korea's state media reported that King confessed to crossing in the North because of inhumane maltreatment and racial discrimination in the U. S. Army.  Wow.  That. Is. Huh. Larious.  He just bolted. He just ran. He's like, fuck you guys. I'm out.  Uh, all right. That's gotta be one of the funniest stories in  American military history. During the investigation, King confessed that he had decided to come over to the DPRK as he harbored ill feeling. Okay. We walked through all this kind of similar as the last one. Um, Gates in an interview with the AP said he, she has never heard her son express the sentiments attributed to him.  Uh, that's why my son was proud to be an American. He's not even a racist type of. person. That's why I can't see him saying that, she said. But she added, I was kind of told that he said a little something like that to his uncles  and that their approach with him was a little different than me. I'm mom. Wow. Uh,  that's hilarious.  Uh,  yeah, that's hilarious. Um, all right. And the last article here,  This one coming from just today says that the US soldier who fled to North Korea will plead guilty to desertion. Other criminal charges, lawyers saying, uh, Travis King, the U S army private who last year, last year,  how has he been detained this whole time? But those articles were from like,  was that  2023?  This guy has been gone for a year.  No way. Yeah, those articles were August 24. I thought this was like three days ago, seven days ago, a week and a half ago. Why has nobody talked about this army soldier fleeing to North Korea because of racial discrimination, North Korea for a whole year. Nobody's talked about this. This is I've never heard of this. And I was running my podcast. Then for the past three, four years, nobody's talked about this at all. That's hilarious. A whole year. How long was he in Korea for? Let's read this article and find out.  I'm so sorry for this. I should have read further. I so sorry. I should have looked at that. I just said August 15th, August 24th, August 26th. I just thought this was this like breaking story that nobody was talking about. This has been happening for a year.  Oh my gosh. All right.  August 26th,  this is, this is the actual new breaking update for you guys. So Travis King, the U S army private who last year ran into North Korea from South Korea is expected to plead guilty to multiple criminal charges, including desertion.  The U S army has charged him with 14 offenses under the uniform code of military justice. King will plead guilty to five of those charges and not guilty to the remaining offenses.  which the army intends to dismiss.  King's guilty plea will be entered at a general court martial where he will explain his actions to military judge. Uh, the guilty plea and sentencing will be held on September 20th. Mark your calendar.  Travis is grateful to his friends and family who have supported him and to all who outside the circle who did not prejudge his case based on the initial allegations.  North Korean government released King last September 18th. So he served like two months. When he reportedly sprinted away from a tour group in a demilitarized zone, there was no contact with King during his capture and North Korean officials were initially obtuse in responding to U. S. inquiries. The incident happened after King finished two months in a South Korean detention facility following  a physical altercation with locals. A senior defense official previously told Fox News. Wow. So he got like a fist fight with some South Korean dudes and then ran to North Korea because they were being unfair to him. Cause he's black.  Allegedly throughout the time he was in the facility, he made comments that he did not want to come back to America. King was eventually released on July 10th and sent home Monday to Fort Bliss.  Um,  so let's read that again. Uh, he finished two months in a South Korean detention facility for getting in a fight with a local. Uh, throughout the time he was at the facility, he made comments that he did not want to come back to America. King was eventually released on July 10th and sent home Monday to Fort Bliss.  So, he was in that detention facility. That timeline doesn't match up. But anyways, uh, North Korea state media reported that King confessed to crossing into the country because of inhumane. Okay, we talked about that. King's mother disputed the claims. And there we are.  September 20th, people. That's what we're going to find out.  Uh, Somebody says, I wonder if this entire problem can be attributed to the lower standards for enlistment that all military branches but the Marines have resorted to in order to reach their recruiting goals. It just seems unlikely that this is the first time this individual has been involved in trouble. Yeah, possibly.  Uh, somebody said, I would have no problem if he's sent back to North Korea. This is where he wanted to go. Yeah, have fun, bud.  Uh, it says in  1983, Private First Class White defects guard duty to the demilitarized zone in North Korea. And North Korea used him to As propaganda. Three months later, his body was found floating in a river south of North Korea.  King IL Sung said he was overwhelmed,  uh, and loved the support to the North Korean people couldn't meet standards. Wow,  you misunderstand. Even North Korea didn't want him. They gave him back freely. Uh, yeah. Shouldn't he be invited to the White House and given a beer with Harris  ? Uh.  Yeah,  very interesting. That's crazy. So here's a fun thought experiment.  What if he's right? What if North Korea is not this like, desolate, dystopian place where everybody's being like, totalitarianism to the core?  What if North Korea is hiding a secret utopia?  Where the elite live in luxury,  fueled by trillions in untapped resources. What  And that's what some people tend to believe.  I don't know if I agree with them. But that is what some people believe is that what if North Korea was really this huge propaganda campaign by the West.  And what if really what's happening there is actually utopia,  where Kim Jong Un actually doesn't  defecate,  where they have far advanced technology than us.  Where they have unlimited resources, none of them really have to work in this communist, socialist, totalitarian regime, and everybody's happy about it.  What if all the defectors there  It's hard to say this seriously, but like, think about it. Let's, like, let's, okay, let me, let me put on my serious hat here.  Here, here's the argument that can be made around this, alright?  There's actually a legitimate argument to be made that North Korea has an unbelievable amount of resources. North Korea is believed to be sitting on untapped natural resources potentially worth trillions of dollars, including vast resources of rare earth materials, including coal, gold, and many other minerals. These resources, resources could theoretically provide the economic foundation for a prosperous society, particularly if the government has been discreet, discreetly. Uh, exploiting these assets. Now, there's supporting evidence surrounding this, which is the fact that North Korea is estimated to be one of the largest reserves of rare earth elements in the world, which are critical for modern technology, from smartphones to military equipment.  Uh, reports suggest that these resources could be worth six to ten trillion dollars.  Given North Korea's isolation and the secrecy surrounding its economic activities, it's plausible that the regime has been strategically using these resources to maintain a hidden wealth based economy. fueling a more prosperous society than outsiders are aware of, right? Like what if North Korea is just like the real life Wakanda, where everybody thinks it's like this third world country. And it's actually this utopia with flying cars, and unlimited resources, and people are all super happy. And they have, you know, all of these things that we don't know about all this technology, all of these minerals, all these resources, all of this advanced modern societies, like, What if Wakanda is real?  And it's actually North Korea. That's the question I'm posing to you.  Uh,  now another side of this is that there's actually legitimate,  uh, legitimate evidence that shows that North Korea is known for its extensive network of underground facilities. Like huge, massive, underground military cities. Not just military bunkers, but cities. Designed to protect and sustain its elite. The underground cities might be equipped with advanced technology  Luxurious living conditions, but like nobody knows this right you go into North Korea Like you're getting a tour guide who's gonna walk you through these like fake cities. Have you ever seen those videos?  Like nobody knows what's going on there legitimately The only thing that we know is the propaganda that's being propagated by Kim Jong un which looks more satirical than anything at all  That you've ever seen like any video that is of Kim Jong un. It looks like a comedy like a legitimate comedy Um, so like what's actually going on there? Is it really just this like comical? satirical country where this  totalitarian brutal regime of or is it like  Or are they hiding something? Like, I think both of those are just as plausible as each other. Uh,  it says there's multiple reports and defector testimonies that describe vast underground networks in North Korea, initially built for military purposes. Satellite imagery has also revealed suspicious land formations and construction activities that hint at larger underground facilities. Now, if you recall, I've done a deep dive into the DUMS. The deep underground military bases that are under, uh, the United States of America, like huge, unbelievably huge, vast, like cities, infrastructures, military bases underground that nobody, unless you're in there and have the secret security clearances know about. And we found out about them because there was, uh, Strava data. Strava is like the, the, or was it like my fitness, um,  like the whoop app, whatever that is, the my fitness pal type of a thing that you put on your, your,  I think of Strava, Strava data got leaked and it's this running technology where runners put this like on their shoes or it's on your phone app and it tracks where you run and people, the data got leaked from Strava. And when it got leaked, they saw these. Uh, there was like hundreds of people running this track in the middle of nowhere, and I think it was like Antarctica or something. And what they found was a deep underground military base where these military members were tracking their runs in the deep underground military base. So these things exist. The data's been leaked. The US has these. They're huge, like massive cities under the ground.  So who's to say that North Korea doesn't have that too? I mean, there's a lot of evidence that suggests the same. Um,  right, designed, and so it talks about the land formations and construction activities that hint at large underground military bases. Uh, secrecy and controlled information. The secret, the extreme secrecy and control over information in North Korea allow the regime to maintain a dual reality. While the global community  sees a nation plagued by poverty and repression, There could be a totally different reality that's going on there. Um, North Korea's tight control over media and information, both domestically and internationally, is well documented. The regime's ability to obscure much of its military and economic activities from even the most advanced civilization, or intelligence services, suggests that it could be just concealing the truth. Aspects of its social infrastructure This is supported by the fact that there is very little known about the true extent of north korea's internal developments And the country's isolation means that much of what is known comes from the controlled sources either being the news The defectors right which could very easily be  Uh, people who are paid actors, just like we've had, you know, crisis actors here in the U. S. Um, and then it goes on to talk about how there's plenty of suggestselective Western propaganda. So proponents argue that Western mediaand this is all like a pro  article designed to at least give some evidence of this, so it's like, just Being transparent with you. This is not like some legitimate government resource or some scientific article,  but it is giving legitimate points about this. So, but it is in support of this idea of the North Korea utopia. Um,  but it says by depicting the country as a failed state, Western powers can justify sanctions, military posturing, and political pressure. This narrative could be deliberately exaggerated or even fabricated, masking the true nature of North Korean society.  And then it also talks about how there is inconsistent defector testimony. So while many defectors report dire conditions in North Korea, there have been cases where their testimonies have been questioned or even debunked. Some defectors have returned to North Korea, which, which proponents argue wouldn't happen if the country was in terrible as terrible as depicted, right? Why would you go back there if like, and there's some horrible videos like, and I'm not meaning like to having this conversation to like downplay those defectors testimonies? Because, um, who is the, there was the woman that was on.  She goes on and talks about some like horrific, horrific things that are going on there and like all these terrible, the terrible famines that are happening. Like I'm not trying to delegitimize that and like,  but it's an interesting concept, right? When, when everything has been shown to be false and propaganda, like you start to question some weird stuff, guys. This may be one of those cases. Um, but I'm sure that my, my bullshit radar is like pretty well up here. I, I'm not  totally buying this theory, but it's a fun thought experiment that North Korea's Wakanda. That's all I'm saying. And that is a good fair point that like, why would a defector go back there? Right. Unless their family's being threatened. Maybe like that. That'd be a good reason. Um, this suggests that life in North Korea might be in more nuanced with certain segments of the population living in better conditions than the Western media portrays. Yeah.  Interesting. Not sure what I make of that, guys, but that's at least, that's at least the theory for you. Now you know. The theory surrounding North Korea being an actual utopia, Wakanda, and us just being propagandized by the Western culture to think that maybe you don't want to be like those guys. Like, you want to, you want to stay with your democracy and your freedom of speech. Don't come over here to the dark side where, where, you know, we have the worst haircuts ever and satirical movies that we push out as propaganda to outside countries so they don't know that we have access to trillions of dollars of resources and advanced technology.  I don't know.  I mean, I kind of know,  but I don't know.  And with that. I'll leave you guys. So I hope you have a wonderful day.  Head over to Ronan basics. com. Um, head over to Amazon. You can buy our hats there as well. I have the Ronan basics RFID blocking wallets. Um,  have the Ronan  basics, uh, 10 foil hat, protecting yourself from EMFs. And the beanies coming very, very soon is our Faraday bags. So the phone, phone bags that you'll actually be able to put your phone into. I have many, many samples. I have, they're in production right now. We've gone back and forth and back and forth to improve them. Very, very excited. I should have those in stock over the next coming weeks. So look out for that Ronan basics. com subscribe, leave a five star review here. Uh, and. I love you. I appreciate you. I hope you're having a good day and I'll see you next time. The Adams archive.  Adams archive. 

View in HD at . There is a hidden option for some apps that allows you to move the Menu Bar below the MacBook camera notch when in Full Screen mode. In addition, you can adjust the screen resolution of your MacBook if you want to get rid of the notch completely.

After navigating numerous controversies and setbacks, Rooster Teeth attempted to return to a more stable existence. But it was not to be. The corporate overlords at Warner Bros Discovery have decided to shut down the company after it reportedly spent a decade being unprofitable.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Fullscreen's acquisition of Rooster Teeth would bring with it new challenges, including corporate bureaucracy, a push for new kinds of monetization, and changes in company culture. Meanwhile, the folks at Rooster Teeth kept making content. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nick Dazé joins the podcast this week to discuss the trailblazing work happening at Heirloom around identity management. He shares the impact their innovative technology has had on academic credentials, which empower both students and institutions to experience far more fluidity, effectiveness, and efficiency.Guest Name: Nick Dazé, CEO of HeirloomGuest Social Handles: LinkedInGuest Bio: Nick Dazé is the co-founder and CEO of Heirloom, which builds no-code tools allowing schools and employers to tokenize credentials on the blockchain. Before co-founding Heirloom, he co-founded PocketList and was an early team member at tech companies such as Faraday Future ($FFIE), Fullscreen (acquired by AT&T), and Bit Kitchen (acquired by Medium as Knowable). - - - -Connect With Our Host:Dustin Ramsdellhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/dustinramsdell/https://twitter.com/HigherEd_GeekAbout The Enrollify Podcast Network:The Higher Ed Geek is a part of the Enrollify Podcast Network. If you like this podcast, chances are you'll like other Enrollify shows too! Some of our favorites include Generation AI and I Wanna Work There. Enrollify is made possible by Element451 — the next-generation AI student engagement platform helping institutions create meaningful and personalized interactions with students. Learn more at element451.com. Connect with Us at the Engage Summit:Exciting news — Dustin will be at the 2024 Engage Summit in Raleigh, NC, on June 25 and 26, and we'd love to meet you there! Sessions will focus on cutting-edge AI applications that are reshaping student outreach, enhancing staff productivity, and offering deep insights into ROI. Use the discount code Enrollify50 at checkout, and you can register for just $99! This early bird pricing lasts until March 31. Learn more and register at engage.element451.com — we can't wait to see you there!

Join me and one of Forbes' Top 50 Entrepreneurial CMOs, Business Insider's CMO to Watch, and Brand Innovators' Industry Innovator, Krystal Hauserman, who creates iconic brands by rooting them in pop culture, purpose and cutting-edge innovation.  Krystal has held senior executive roles at WarnerMedia, Paris Hilton's 11:11 Media, creator startup Fullscreen and more, having created breakthrough campaigns for global consumer brands such as HBO, Hilton Hotels, Taco Bell, Klarna, NBCU, the NBA, and L'Oreal's Urban Decay.  Her work has been featured in Vogue, Vanity Fair, The Hollywood Reporter, Variety, Forbes, Ad Age and Adweek.  Her deepest appreciation for creativity, storytelling, beauty and design was the reason she switched from her successful law career to the entertainment business, crafting a path that better resonated with her character and values.  Being a mentor to so many people, Krystal always emphasizes the importance of curiosity and flexibility and in trusting opportunities that come their way. She serves on the Advisory Board of POSSIBLE and is an executive mentor to early-career marketers across multiple organizations, including Adweek, Monday Night Mentorship, and The Marketing Academy.  Some great takeaways from today's episode: Ones' potential and character is more important than the credentials they possess You can teach people how to do something, but you can't teach them to care Marketers solve the world's problems, they don't do it for themselves Take your time and experiment - be open to possibilities Links: Krystal Hauserman's  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/krystalhauserman/ Krystal Hauserman's website: https://www.krystalhauserman.com THE RE:INVENTION EXCHANGE - for more Inspired Content, Blogs, Podcasts, RE:INVENTION Virtual Chats, or to buy a copy of my book RE:INVENT YOUR LIFE! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? by Kathi Sharpe-Ross, visit https://www.thereinventionexchange.com IG: KathiSR_Chief_Reinventor   FB: Kathi Sharpe-Ross or The Reinvention Exchange LinkedIn: Kathi Sharpe-Ross    Twitter: KathiSR or The Reinvention Exchange

Watch The Episode On YouTube: https://youtu.be/HkMcph1d1vU Are you looking for a powerful project management tool that can save you time and boost your productivity? Then you should check out ClickUp 3.0! In this video, we dive into the latest version of ClickUp and explore its potential to save you one day a week. ClickUp offers tons of features, views, and options to handle pretty much all your project management needs (besides actually doing the work). Whether you're working alone or with a team, ClickUp has you covered. Don't miss this episode of the TBM Show as we take you on a journey through ClickUp 3.0's features, advantages, and potential time savings. It's time to take your project management to the next level and see if ClickUp is the right fit for you! Try ClickUp For Free (affiliate link): https://clickup.pxf.io/paul Subscribe to the TBM Show for more insightful discussions on productivity, tools, and tactics that can improve your life.

View in HD at . You can choose whether the Menu Bar on your Mac is always visible, or will hide when you aren't using it. The setting for this recognizes the difference between using a Desktop space or a Full Screen space, so it is important to understand Mission Control as well.

It's College Football Season! Lee Hacksaw Hamilton discusses the changing dynamics in college sports. We talk about Top 20 teams, hot teams to follow, and a deeper look at the PAC-12 and Mountain West Conferences. Here's what Lee Hamilton thinks on Thursday, August 31, 2023. These are Hacksaw's Headlines:   1...COLLEGE FOOTBALL PREVIEW...A VERY DIFFERENT SEASON "END OF AN ERA"   ------- 2...PAC 12 CONFERENCE...WIDE OPEN YEAR? "YEAR OF THE QUARTERBACK"   ----------- 3...MOUNTAIN WEST...A VERY DIFFERENT YEAR "BOUNCEBACK SEASONS"   ======================== (HALFTIME) ======================== 4.. TOP TEAMS IN THE NATION....ARE THE POLLS CORRECT? "QUESTION MARKS" GEORGIA ALABAMA OHIO STATE MICHIGAN TEXAS CLEMSON ----------------------- 5.. NAMES IN THE NEWS-WHO YOU FOLLOWING? “Full Screen"               "BREAK THRU-BREAKDOWNS" LSU NOTRE DAME NORTH CAROLINA PENN STATE TCU COLORADO -------------------------   #ncaa #bcs #nil #transferportal #PAC12 #USC #OREGON #Washington #OregonState #washingtonstate #cal #stanford #arizona #arizonastate #utah #colorado #lincolnriley #calebwilliams #chipkelly #sandiegostate #bradyhoke #boisestate #fresnostate #sanjosestate #utahstate #wyoming #airforce #coloradostate #newmexico #nevadareno #unr #unlv #georgia #alabama #ohiostate #michigan #clemson #texas #lsu #notredame #northcarolina #pennstate #tcu #coachprime #bonix #michaelpenix   Be sure to share this episode with a friend!   ☆☆    STAY CONNECTED    ☆☆ For more of Hacksaw's Headlines, The Best 15 Minutes, One Man's Opinion, and Hacksaw's Pro Football Notebook: http://www.leehacksawhamilton.com/   SUBSCRIBE on YouTube for more reactions, upcoming shows and more! ► https://www.youtube.com/c/leehacksawhamiltonsports   FACEBOOK ➡ https://www.facebook.com/leehacksaw.hamilton.9   TWITTER ➡ https://twitter.com/hacksaw1090   TIKTOK ➡ https://www.tiktok.com/@leehacksawhamilton   INSTAGRAM ➡ https://www.instagram.com/leehacksawhamiltonsports/  

VIDEO: Clipping up a Long-Form Video for Short-Form Vertical Video for TikTok, Reels and Shorts for Church Sermons. In this video come sit down and watch as Nick clips up a teaching video in Adobe Premiere Pro (from http://www.hybridministry.xyz/053) to now turn it into a couple of vertical video based pieces of content. Long Form Video: https://youtu.be/uZzatZ4KFyE Hang out on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick ShowNotes & Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/055 FREE E-Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry SHOWNOTES FREE Animation Effects for Adobe Premiere Pro: https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis TIMECODES 00:00-01:13 Intro 01:13-02:14 Setup For Editing a Short Form Vertical Video for Church Social Media 02:14-02:52 Converting from Widescreen to Full Screen in Adobe Premiere pro 02:52-03:12 Setting in and out spots on a Sequence in Adobe Premiere Pro 03:12-03:26 Starting your TikToks to catch people's attention 03:26-03:55 Shaving Down Excess Space for Quicker Jump Cuts on TikToks and Reels 03:55-04:19 Zooming in and out for TikTok Videos and Shorts 04:19-05:12 Animating Text Layers in Adobe Premiere Pro 05:12-06:08 Adding Sound Effects 06:08-07:14 Add a Call to Action to Watch the Long Form YouTube Video 07:14-07:57 Adding Music to your Short Form Video 07:57-11:30 Adding Captions to your Reels and TikToks in Adobe premiere Pro 11:30-12:19 Rendering the Short Video for Social out of Adobe Premiere Pro 12:19-14:33 Determining Which Clips to Add for a Social Media Clip 14:33-19:13Clipping out the Spaces 19:13-19:48 Adding the Call to Action 19:48-22:49 Transcribing the Sequence for Reels and Shorts in Adobe Premiere Pro 22:49-22:32 Rendering out the Sequence 22:32-24:17 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:02): What is going down everybody? Welcome back. Another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. If, uh, you have not, um, if you've not gone back and seen the last one where I edited a full, uh, video down, then I want to encourage you to go back and check that out. That is what I would do for, um, editing a full video for YouTube. Once that's done, render out some thumbnails and some time codes and stuff like that. However, for, um, this episode, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna edit out three short form TikTok style videos. So I wanna make sure that you can see that. So I'm gonna be using the same premiere file. I'm just gonna resave it and make it vertical as opposed to horizontal. So I wanna show you how that goes down. Um, hey, don't forget, we are on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube. Nick Clason (00:46): Go subscribe all three places, check those things out and hit the show notes for transcripts and my free ebook. Um, tell you how to post a TikTok from scratch on your phone. This, however, is about posting a TikTok. Um, first saving it on, uh, in a video editing software. In particular, this one's Adobe Premier Pro. And then, um, saving those somewhere that you can repost them later. So, without any further ado, let's dive in. Check the sucker out. So, like I said in the last video, you would've seen, um, something like this. This is, um, me opening up the Adobe Premiere Pro file. Um, I don't think I need those, so I'm not gonna worry about those. All right, so here's the, the final. So the first thing I do, Nick Clason (01:36): Okay, you'll never be left Nick Clason (01:38): Out. All right, so the first thing that I do is I, um, file save as. Um, and I'm gonna save it as underscore social one. I do every social, I do a new one, um, just cuz I sometimes move around like backing tracks and audio and resync some things. This is more, this happens a lot more with my podcast than these, but I just try and do a different one every single time. Sometimes I forget, but the more that I I file save as the source file, the less chance for error. Um, and so I'm just gonna start here. Um, so now this is the source file. So now I can change the sequence settings. I'm going up here, sequence settings. Frame size is 1920 by 10 80. That is wide screen. I'm gonna change it to, um, up, up and down, whatever that's called. Verticals vertical video. So that's 10 80 by 1920 pixels, click. Okay. And then, okay, so now you'll see here in my preview I have it, um, uh, 10 80 by 1920. Problem is I need this video to be fully screened. So that's why I kind of change it every single time. So I'm gonna, um, zoom that in in a minute. But first I am going to, um, create a title track. So I'm gonna make it this one right here. In this Nick Clason (02:52): Video we're gonna talk about how, about how, how you, how you can get, Nick Clason (03:01): So I want to do it right there. So I clicked I how you go in. Um, and then right there I hit C to get my razor tool and then v to select that and get it outta here. Now one of the things I like to do is I like to open it with an animation. I feel like as people are scrolling, when they see an animation, it jars them and at least gets their attention at least a little bit Nick Clason (03:22): How you can get, Nick Clason (03:24): I'm going to need to zoom that in though, right? So it needs to be like that. Nick Clason (03:28): How you can get invited to every single party. Nick Clason (03:34): I'm gonna do c v, get rid of that, bring that in ever. I'm gonna make these quicker cuts, you'll Nick Clason (03:42): Never be left out again. Nick Clason (03:44): So where there's a gap there in the audio, how I'm clipping Nick Clason (03:50): This party started and find out. Nick Clason (03:53): So go back here and now I'm gonna just do some zoom. So that's at 1 94. I'm gonna zoom in even more to 2 27, 2 27 and then 2 27. So Nick Clason (04:10): How you can get invited to every single party ever. You'll never be left out again how this party started and find out. Nick Clason (04:19): All right, so, um, I also want to take my, uh, thumbnail, which I made in Photoshop. Um, I don't think I showed that on camera, but that's what I ended up making. So I'm gonna bring that in in the P S D and then since I have all those layers, I'm gonna animate those and this is gonna be like my announcement or like title sequence. So I always do one that just like explains what the video is. It's just like an announcement. Um, and so this is that one. This is me, you know, right here at the beginning. So I'm gonna go Nick Clason (04:51): How you can get invited to ev. Nick Clason (04:56): So I'm gonna have that come in at the same time and then I'm just gonna move it so it fits Nick Clason (05:07): How you can get invited to every single party ever. Nick Clason (05:13): I'm gonna do a sound effect as that comes in. I still have that sfx saved from earlier. If you don't have it, um, go find it. Um, wherever you have sound effects saved, um, go find it in your finder and then you can drop it right here in this bin. Since I did use that earlier in my long form video, it's already saved in here. Um, so that's one of the reasons too where I like to go back to the original file cuz all the things that I pulled in are already still there. So I'm gonna do I right there, o right here. I have a lot of other options, but I'm just gonna pick that one. Let's see how that sounds. Nick Clason (05:49): How you can get invited to every single party ever. You'll never be left out again. How Nick Clason (05:58): I feel like that needs to be Nick Clason (06:00): How let's get party start. Oh, how, let's get this party started and find out. Nick Clason (06:08): All right, so over here, um, in my shared file, I have created a graphic that I use for my enders. So it's in, uh, shared students social media, TikTok and reels. And then I think I have it in admin. And this is just where I push people to watch the full video on YouTube. So I'm gonna put that right here. I'm gonna let that bounce in, right? And I'm gonna get a, I'm gonna get a whoosh sound with it. Take just the audio there. Boom, put it right there. Yep, Nick Clason (06:51): Let's get party started. Nick Clason (06:53): I wanna make that a little later. Let's do it right here. Nick Clason (06:57): Party started. Find out Nick Clason (07:00): We let it linger a little bit past the talking. Make that oh for out and then I'm gonna go back in here into messages. Um, start the party and I'm gonna get the party music so that there's a little audio track with it. Um, is it necessary? No. Um, does it add to it? Maybe you can be the judge of that. Um, I'll just, I'm just gonna drop it in here. I'm gonna make it negative 25. So it's real low. Nick Clason (07:27): You can get invited to every single party. Nick Clason (07:32): Adjust. I'm gonna adjust these audios right here. So I'm just gonna highlight them all. Select, all right, click audio game. I'm gonna make it 15. So it should be pretty substantial difference how you Nick Clason (07:42): Can get invited to every single party ever. You'll never be left out again. How, let's get this party started and find out. Nick Clason (07:52): All right, the only thing is I lost my right there. Nick Clason (07:56): Start and find out. Nick Clason (07:58): All right. Now last thing is I wanna add captions. So I'm gonna go to window workspaces, captions and graphics. Um, here's where I transcribe it. So I'm gonna click, um, from captions to transcript. I'm gonna click transcribe. Uh, okay, I don't know what this is doing. This is new. Okay, so let's do transcript. Nick Clason (08:37): Oh, Nick Clason (08:48): All right, let's try it again. So this is just gonna take a minute. There used to be, this is an updated version. So like I said, I have a new computer in my last video. So there used to be an option to just transcribe the in and out portion so it wouldn't take quite as long. Uh, looks like it got it right here. All those right there. So I'm gonna click captions, click captions from transcript, click this dropdown arrow. I like to do single lines and then create captions. So Nick Clason (09:37): I do, Nick Clason (09:37): So there you see they right there. So I'm gonna go over here and highlight that one. Click command A to select all. And then I'm gonna go change all. So I'm going to, I like to do, uh, every one of my captions for students has been Babe New Pro. Um, I put it in the middle here, but then I do uh, bottom line text, um, take away the shadow and I want to give it a little background. So I'll give it a black background. I'm gonna make it a hundred percent a opaque and then I'm gonna give it some roundedness and some size. See, so it looks like that. Now problem is, it's still covering that. So I have two options. I can lower that. I can lower the texts. So I can do like this and then like top aligned or middle aligned, or I can move this, um, in, in affects controls. And so I think I might do that so my face isn't covered. Um, and then, but that still doesn't solve this problem. If I go there, yeah, if I go there, it's still a little bit. So I might still move this down, just ale and then over here and text command A. Nick Clason (11:01): Yeah, I'm just gonna leave it there in the middle. It's fine. Nick Clason (11:04): Oh, you can get invited to every single party ever. You'll never be left out again. How, let's get, Nick Clason (11:13): You just gotta go back in here and edit anything that didn't get picked up. So how, let's get this party started and find out, out Nick Clason (11:22): Again how, let's get party started and find out started and find out. Nick Clason (11:30): I'm going to cut it right there, back to V to select it. So now when my under slide comes in, it's gone. All right, so now I'm gonna click on sequence command M, make sure my format is set to H 2 64. That's for MP4 files. And now I'm gonna go back out here. Instead of putting it in messages, I'm gonna put it in TikTok and reels. 2023, start the party oh three Nick, oh one title and change it from, uh, entire source to in and out. So it's just gonna do that a little bit right there. Export, there's TikTok number one. Nick Clason (12:20): All right, sweet. Now I'm going to go file save as I'm gonna gimme social two, I'm gonna go back up here to window and get my effects panel back. Some switch from workspaces, from captions to effects. It's probably an easier way to do it, but I'm not gonna worry about it now. It autogenerated all these captions for me. That could be good, that could be bad as long as I keep the same order. I like to tell stories on TikTok as much as I can. So if this story right here can make sense, I'm gonna go with it. Nick Clason (12:54): Church, I, I used to work at one time, likes to be the person ever. Nobody. Nick Clason (13:12): All right, so these captions are messing me up. So honestly, I'm just gonna start this over. So no, I'm not gonna save that. Um, I'm gonna go back in here three premiere and pull this up. So now I'm going to just get myself a clean copy and all I gotta do is change the sequence settings, file, save as social. I'll just make this three. All right, sequin. Gotta click on sequence. Sequence settings. 10 80 by 1920. All right. Now back to my story. So I don't want these things here, okay? I don't need those things for TikTok Nick Clason (14:00): Ever. Whoop, Nick Clason (14:08): Cut V out. I'm gonna animate this in motion. Presets position in smooth bottom. Let's be Nick Clason (14:17): On Nick Clason (14:18): And I'm gonna zoom in, go over to effects controls, and I gotta cut the gaps. Nick Clason (14:27): Nobody, let's be honest, nobody ever likes to be the person left out. One time I moved away from a church that I used to work at Nick Clason (14:54): Just cutting out all these gaps. So C then V and then sliding over. Nick Clason (14:59): And at this church at this, Nick Clason (15:04): I don't need that big long. And Nick Clason (15:09): At this church I did retreats with an Nick Clason (15:25): So I'm gonna bring all of these photos over Nick Clason (15:33): Treats. What's another, Nick Clason (15:36): I just gotta zoom in. Nick Clason (15:38): A friend of mine down the road, he worked at a church. And so together our church would, our two churches would come together. We went on this fall retreat. And so before I moved, I was was one of the ones who went on the, Nick Clason (16:08): All right, let's go back here and shave out any fluff. I don't need whatever this is. Nick Clason (16:14): Our church would come to our two churches would churches. So together our church would come to our Nick Clason (16:21): Cut out that, so it's just this Nick Clason (16:25): Boat. He worked at a churches, our two churches would come together and we went on this fall retreat. And so before I moved, I was one of the ones who went on the retreat, helped plan it, Nick Clason (16:42): Speak, Nick Clason (16:42): Do all the things. And so every single fall we went to camp Fall retreat. And so Nick Clason (16:49): I'm gonna cut all that goal is to make it as short as possible. And Nick Clason (16:52): So every single fall we Nick Clason (16:53): Went to, I felt losing the story Nick Clason (16:56): CSA in Briston, Indiana. And we called the retreat, the Recharge retreat. And it was awesome. And it was awesome. It was awesome and the same place. And because I followed both my and it was awesome, Nick Clason (17:23): Roll Nick Clason (17:23): Around, Nick Clason (17:26): Same. Nick Clason (17:27): And it was awesome. I leave that church, I move on to another one, and that same weekend rolls around. Nick Clason (17:33): Gotta get that out of there. I could have left. It just chose not to the same place. Nick Clason (17:39): And because I follow both my old church and my buddy's church on Instagram, I see that they're both on a retreat. Nick Clason (17:47): And I Nick Clason (17:47): Was like, God, it's interesting both that church and this church are both on a retreat together at, but on the same Nick Clason (17:54): Weekend, probably gonna cut all this out. That's Nick Clason (17:56): Interesting. Wait, Nick Clason (17:58): It Nick Clason (18:00): Go wait. Nick Clason (18:04): And that same weekend rolls around. Nick Clason (18:07): Wait, Nick Clason (18:17): And it was awesome. I leave that church. I'm watching that same weekend roll around, wait in ton Indiana, hold on, hold on. They're together. And what I began to notice, hold on, was that these two churches came together and instead of calling it the Recharge retreat, they called it the Lifeline Retreat or something like that, that these two churches came together and instead of calling it the Recharge retreat, they called it the Lifeline Retreat or something like that. I don't remember, but I felt, so Nick Clason (18:59): This is why I wanna end on right Nick Clason (19:00): Lifeline retreat, but Nick Clason (19:01): I, I felt so left out, left, boom. And then I just wanna kind of leave a little cliff hangry. So I'm gonna go back over here. I'm gonna grab my ender screen. I'm gonna bring it in. It's gonna position in, right? I'm gonna get the sounder for it. Nick Clason (19:31): Same weekend. Nick Clason (19:35): So that's at 1 30 46. All right, so it's less than a minute. Um, YouTube shorts only allows a minute. So I always make my goal to be less than a minute. So transcript, get this outta here. I think that that's my in-out points. I just want the audio transcribed. I don't need all that transcribed. That might be all the little ones. Listen, you and I are learning this all together with the new transcription interface. In the meantime, Marvel at me in this old shirt. All right, so I don't want that. I want create new caption track there. So I need to get all these, I'm gonna do Babes New Pro. I'm gonna do another black. Actually, I'll do a white background with black text this time. I don't want shadow, I want background. And I'm just gonna put it right in the middle and then lower it down just a little bit beneath my face. And let's see how it looks. Nick Clason (21:48): Let's be honest. Nobody ever likes to be the person left out. One time I moved away from a church that I used to work at this church. I did retreats with another friend of mine down the road. He worked at a church and our two churches would come together and we went on this fall retreat. And so every single fall we went to a camp called Camp Tecu Tecumsah in Brookstown, Indiana. And we called the retreat the Recharge Retreat. And it was awesome. I leave that church, I move on to another one. And that same weekend rolls around. Hold on. Was that these two churches came together and instead of calling it the Recharge retreat, they called it the Lifeline Retreat, but I felt so left out. Nick Clason (22:38): I'm just gonna cut that right there. I'm gonna put my out there. I'm gonna come back over here, put my in, and then command M, switch it to H 2 6 4 TikTok, start the party. Boom. All right. And then one more. I like to do three week. I typically post my Title one on Sunday, um, and then I post the other two, um, on a Thursday and a Tuesday. So that's just kind of been my rhythm. Leaves some gaps in the calendar or in the TikTok posting schedule for some other things. So, all right, as this encodes, I am going to wrap up to the next one, Nick Clason (23:37): Actually. Um, I'm going to, you get the gist. Um, I will do the third one the exact same way. Uh, just realized I have a meeting in two minutes, so I'm gonna go ahead and wind this down. Um, I will, I will make the third one without you here. Um, but I hope that you found this helpful, um, in pre-recording and then making TikTok in Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe Photoshop. So, sounds helpful. Leave a like, subscribe, rating, review, hit the notes, uh, show notes for transcripts or my free ebook. And, um, we'll talk soon. Don't forget, stay hybrid.

This podcast interview focuses on product innovation that has the power to give self-care businesses give their clients more of the magical moments that matter. My guest is Matt Danna, CEO of Boulevard.  Matt is a tech entrepreneur on a mission. He's addicted to building technology for the creative class and passionate about the intersection between design and technology.  Matt has spent his entire career building technologies to empower creative professionals., Matt was head of product for the LA-based talent agency Wasserman. His career also includes product leadership positions with Awesomeness, a multi-media platform company, and the global media company Fullscreen.  He co-founding Boulevard in 2016 as he and his co-founder realized this industry - the professionals who help us look and feel our best - has traditionally been underserved when it comes to tech and support.  So their mission is to change that by enabling their customers to give their clients more of the magical moments that matter. And this inspired me, and hence I invited Matt to my podcast. We explore how the company evolved from a scheduling solution into a complete experience platform, positioning for the salon and spa industry.  Matt explains how they carved out their niche and how early architectural design now provides them with a multi-year competitive advantage. helping them stand out from competitors who added these features later. He elaborates on how they accelerated growth and reduced CAC by leveraging the power of network effects and customer referrals. He shares his story of how brand trust, design, and community have become core differentiators for the company, thereby creating a magnetic effect. Last but not least, he explains how the company achieved minimal customer churn during covid, and was able to add well over 600 customers in a market that was effectively closed.  Here's one of his quotes The hardest nut to crack over time has been our go-to market motion. My co-founder and I were both engineers. And so, learning how to sell a product was entirely new territory for us. And there's this perception out there from some founders if you build it, they'll come. That never happens. And so you have to be so intentional about your go-to market. You have to be very, very focused on what's your ideal customer profile. That is something that we continue to refine on a quarterly basis, Who are we best set up to support? Who do we have pricing power over? During this interview, you will learn four things: What it really means to understand a problem in its full depth - and why that makes all the difference for your success  What it takes to find the sweetspot where you have pricing power What they did differently that gave them defensible differentiation from day one Why we should think differently about product market fit For more information about the guest from this week: Matt Danna Website: Boulevard Subscribe to the Daily SaaS Reflection Get my free, 1 min daily reflection on shaping a B2B SaaS business no one can ignore. Subscribe here Yes, it's actually daily. And yes, people actually stay subscribed (Just see what peer B2B SaaS CEOs say) My promise: It's short. To the point. Inspiring. And valuable. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are you a business owner looking for secrets and hacks for growing your business? Do you want your business to be more successful? Then this week's podcast episode is for you. Tune in as Matt Danna, the Co-Founder & CEO of Boulevard, shares secrets to success that he's learned over the years. Matt Danna is the co-founder and CEO of Boulevard, provider of the client experience platform purpose-built for appointment-based, self-care businesses. Matt oversees all aspects of Boulevard's business operations while setting the vision and strategy for both short- and long-term company growth. Passionate about the intersection between design and technology, Matt has spent his entire career building technologies to empower creative professionals. Before co-founding Boulevard in 2016, Matt was head of product for the LA-based talent agency Wasserman. His career also includes product leadership positions with Awesomeness, a multi-media platform company, and the global media company Fullscreen. Matt holds a Bachelor of Science in Information Technology and Human-Computer Interaction from the Rochester Institute of Technology.  Be sure to take notes as Matt shares: Why it's important to remember that the path to success has ebbs and flows and highs and lows How having tenacity, willpower, and believing in yourself can all lead to success Why just because other people don't believe or can't see your vision shouldn't sway you Why it's important to realize that the client experience is pivotal if you want recurring revenue How optimizing for client satisfaction = customers coming back Why it's important to understand that if you can get a customer to come back 3 times you will generally have them as a customer for life Get motivated to grow your business with Matt's wisdom and advice - let's get hacking! Follow the Local Business Hacks podcast for more inspiring interviews, hacks, and insider secrets to help grow your business.

About Phil Ranta from his bio:Phil is a pioneer of the digital media revolution, working as a pre-YouTube professional web video producer in 2005, video content app creator before the smartphone revolution in 2007, an early exec in the MCN boom with two successful exits, and as the Head Gaming Creators at Facebook and Mobcrush, driving the live streaming and the creator-driven media paradigm shift. Currently, as COO of We Are Verified, Phil is helping to build scalable businesses around top content creators.Previously, Phil was the Head of Gaming Creators, North America at Facebook and the Head of Creators at Mobcrush. In both roles, the departments saw significant growth working with top game streaming talent including Ronda Rousey, Disguised Toast, Corinna Kopf, Shroud, and Nate Hill, to name a few.Phil was the COO of Studio71, one of the world's largest MCNs, growing the network from 1 billion to over 8 billion monthly views in 3 years with over 1,000 creators.Before S71, Phil joined Fullscreen as the Head of Channel Partnerships as the 9th employee, completing his tenure as the VP of Networks. He grew the network to the largest MCN in the world (on comScore) in less than 1 year. He was the recipient of Fullscreen's first "Founders Award" for his role in building the industry-leading company.Phil was also a popular comedian, performing at such prestigious LA venues as the Second City Los Angeles (and acting in their touring company aboard Norwegian Cruise Lines), the Upright Citizen's Brigade Theater (improv program graduate), and comedy festivals across America. As a content creator, his videos have received over 100 million views on digital platforms bolstered by his work as a talent/producer on the YouTube channel "PronunciationManual" and co-hosts the "Two and a Half Sportsmen" podcast.

Jason Berger is a Director, a Producer, and the CEO & Founder of "KIDS AT PLAY". "KIDS AT PLAY has been on the forefront of storytelling in the digital age. Our office (known as “THE PLAYGROUND”) is an inspired place where we utilizetraditional narrative and comedy foundations to push mediums, connect with audiences, and define new creative spaces. KAP has a strong footprint in thekids and comedy space and an overarching sense of “youthfulness” in the projects they do.With writers, directors, producers, editors and graphic teams working under one roof, KAP has the ability to move projects from script to screen quickly, onbudget, and at the highest of quality standards.KAP collaborates with TV networks, writers, directors, producers, agencies, brands, and entertainment companies to produce world-class programming. Thisincludes partnerships with Facebook, YouTube, Disney, FX, Paramount Network, Comedy Central, The CW, TVLand, CMT, Warner Bros, Legendary, Viacom,Pepsi, Xbox, LG, Old Spice, Dunkin' Donuts, eHarmony, Ogilvy, Bud Light, VEVO, Purina, Intel, Smirnoff, IGN, Play Station, Listerine, StubHub, Freeform,Universal, Scripps Networks, Raycom, Yahoo!, AOL, Travel Channel, Food Network, and Cooking Channel, among others. We have unannounced projectswith Spyglass, Village Roadshow, Fox Studios, OWN, Comedy Central, YouTube Originals, Food Network, Twitch.Recently KIDS AT PLAY produced the Emmy Nominated & 2 Time NAACP winning series Tab Time with Tabitha Brown for Youtube Kids, Keke Palmer's latestcomedy series “Turnt Up With The Taylors” for Facebook (Keke won an Emmy for the series), Lightning Wolves for Comedy Central (Bobby Moynihan, TaranKillam, Cobie Smulders), The Me & You Show for Snap (over 50M views) , Daring Simone Biles for Snap, the hybrid scripted/docu pilot “Millennials Save TheWorld” for FX featuring Moses Storm and Chris Redd, “The Quinn Marcus Show” for PopTV, “Junketeers” for Comedy Central featuring Josh Duhamel, MarkWahlberg, Kristen Bell & Matt Bomer with an overall reach of 24.3 million, and the recent second seasons of comedies “Rhett & Link's Buddy System” forYouTube Originals and “Now We're Talking” for Warner Bros.In unscripted, talk and non-fiction, KAP produced 150 half-hour episodes of the hilarious daily syndicated talk show “Me Time with Frangela” for the Gray/Raycom station group, Eat Their Words for Food Network, “Oh My Josh!” For Freeform/Hulu, “Adult Ed with Jake & Amir” for Complex Networks, “Wild Food”for the Travel Channel, “Burrito Brothers” and “Snob vs. Slob” for Food Network/Cooking Channel, and “Shay Mitchell: Chapters” for Fullscreen.In the theatrical film space, we produced the thriller “The Thinning” for Legendary, which generated over 300 million social impressions reaching a totalof 135M+ fans, and the rowdy comedy feature “Beerfest: Thirst for Victory” for Warner Bros., and “The Toll Road” short film starring Lizzy Caplan andMartin Starr.KAP's ship is steered by award-winning director and producer Jason Berger and Forbes “30 Under 30” alumAmy Laslett. They are represented by UTA and Artists First."- Bio provided by "KIDS AT PLAY" Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Bringing offline businesses online, known as digital transformation, is a huge opportunity. There are entire industries where the efficiencies of digital tools and workflows haven't penetrated. That's changing with the market today valued at $535B and anticipated to grow to $3.3T in the next decade.Out guest today is helping lead that transition in the health and wellness services space. Matt Danna is the Co-Founder and CEO of Boulevard, a vertical SaaS that describes itself as “the first and only client experience platform for appointment-based, self-care businesses.”About Matt Danna:Matt Danna is the co-founder and CEO of Boulevard, a provider of the client experience platform used by more than 25,000 professionals to power more than 2,000 salons, medspas, and other self-care businesses across the US.Prior to co-founding Boulevard in 2016, Matt was head of product for the LA-based talent agency Wasserman. His career also includes product leadership positions with Awesomeness, a multi-media platform company, and the global media company Fullscreen. Matt holds a Bachelor of Science in Information Technology and Human-Computer Interaction from the Rochester Institute of Technology.In this episode we discuss:(01:23) How Matt got into tech and startups(04:10) The opportunity they saw with Boulevard(09:52) What market validation Boulevard did(11:00) Why the founders worked for free at salons(14:37) Biggest takeaways from the pre-launch market research(16:35) How they knew their MVP was ready to launch(18:26) The early bootstrapped days of Boulevard(19:51) Early employees and financing(21:38) Leaving stealth and launching publicly(23:45) Early successes and challenges(25:51) Why they spun up their own FinTech solution(27:21) How they reacted to COVID(29:32) Scaling rapidly while sticking to their vision(30:39) Boulevard's long-term visionFast Favorites*

View in HD at . Many people just switch to Full Screen mode when in an app without realizing how it works or what options are available. Learn how to better understand and control Full Screen windows on your Mac.

https://linktr.ee/kraig --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kraigadams/message

One of the questions job seekers often ask is how to navigate a career change. Career transitions can be tricky without clarity and guidance from others who have done them. In this episode, I talk to Producer turned Enterprise Sales Lead Margee Hocking, who mastered her career transition. I also had an opportunity to ask her how she:  Built connected relationships as a remote workerTransferred her skills from production to enterprise salesFound a role model-- and the attributes she admired Managed different projects and personalities with grace and easeShow Guest:Margee Hocking is a proven sales and marketing executive. She brings over 25 years of experience working in media and technology with many Fortune 100 companies, such as Microsoft, Walmart, Honda, AT&T, GM, P&G, and T-Mobile. She works with clients to provide comprehensive solutions that create significant business impact. As the Head of Enterprise Accounts at CataBoom, a SaaS-based platform for engagement and gamification, Margee has driven significant new revenue. Before CataBoom, Margee led the business development in Texas for Fullscreen, an AT&T influencer marketing company. Margee's career began as a Production Assistant on the film, Sleepless in Seattle. She then took her talents to Saturday Night Live, HBO, MTV, NBCU, and other media and production companies. She holds a B.A. from Tulane University.  Show Notes: Follow Margee Hocking on LinkedInLearn more about CataBoom and play a game hereFollow Lauren Zalaznick, Founder & Chief Curator  Jill Griffin is on a mission to improve life in the workplace. Her executive coaching, strategy, and innovation have generated multi-millions in revenue for the world's largest agencies, start-ups, and well-known brands. She works with individuals, teams, and organizations to create cultures that allow leaders to increase performance while maintaining their well-being. Visit JillGriffinCoaching.com for more details on: 1:1 Career Strategy and Executive Coaching CEO Advising and Consulting Gallup CliftonStrengths Corporate Workshops to build a strengths-based culture Team Dynamics training to increase retention, communication, goal setting, and effective decision-making Current Offerings: Women's Leadership Experience starts soon. Get on the List HERE Grab an individual Strengths & Strategy Session with Jill Griffin HERE Follow @jillGriffinOffical on Instagram for daily inspiration.

Ezra Cooperstein is the President of Night, a management company for the world best digital creators, including MrBeast, Moriah Elizabeth, Safiya Nygaard, Codie Sanchez, Graham Stephan, and more. He was previously CEO of Maker Studios and President of Fullscreen and Rooster Teeth and has over two decades of experience in digital content, media & the creator economy.

“It's consumption media, not social media. A lot of people are struggling with this, and a lot more are going to. And I would like to be part of the solution.” James Veraldi is the CEO & Co-founder of Loop.co — a company focused on Improving the world's social and mental health. So many of us - including the people we love and work with - have had experience with mental health - and solving these challenges aligns with "touching lives, improving life." As an accomplished entrepreneur, James' work embodies the very purpose, values, and principle driven approach to work so many of us P&G'ers hold true. Mental and social health is especially a challenge for the younger millennial and Gen Z workforce today - which has a potentially massive impact on performance, productivity, and overall engagement and retention. If you're a manager of people - an exec or HR stakeholder - you can learn more and sign up for a free 30-day trial for you and some of your colleagues — just visit Loop.co/work. James began this recent chapter while serving as an Entrepreneur-In-Residence at GGV Capital. Prior to that he led product strategy at TikTok, which he joined in early 2017 — prior to its 2018 acquisition and rebranding from ByteDance. Prior to TikTok, James led content strategy at Snapchat, which followed his work as a founding team member at one of Youtube's earliest partners Fullscreen, which was acquired by Otter Media in 2014. James worked extensively with P&G, Danone and many other top brands when he co-led a small digital content agency called The ZiZo Group — here his team was on the earliest forefront of branded content marketing. James also had early career experiences at Target, Viacom, and Accenture. He spends a lot of his time in the climate & conservation spaces, where he has done a number of angel investments in climate tech — and founded a popular platform and podcast called Animalia where he leads discussions on a number of climate and conservation solutions. James is a dog lover, beekeeper, and even rehabilitates the occasional squirrel or crow. You'll enjoy this candid conversation about a career journey that led to a greater good - building meaningful solutions for the world of social and mental health - and hopefully be inspired on how you can make a difference.

Phil Ranta is a digital media veteran who has held leadership roles at companies such as Super Deluxe, Fullscreen, Studio 71, Facebook and now We Are Verified where he's the COO focused on all things web3 and creator economy. But most importantly, he's a father of two, who believes that time spent with your kids makes you a better leader and that every parent could benefit from improv or comedy training.Episode Breakdown:3:05 - Navigating Young Kids with Young Startups 5:00 - How His Kids Were Impacted By The Pandemic 9:52 - Where He Was In His Career When He First Became a Dad 11:41 - How Becoming A Dad Impacts Your Approach To Content15:15 - How Disney Movies Can Be Difficult To Watch With Your Kids 18:08 - How Spending More time With Your Kids Makes you A Better Leader 21:20 - How Having a Background in Comedy is Beneficial As a Parent 26:06 - How Fathers Are More Present In Their Kids Lives Today 27:40 - How Dad-Content Has Become Cool29:05 - Rapid Father Questions 31:45 - Is Bluey the Best Show for Dads? 37:25 - Defining Dad Energy and Dad Funny Follow Phil on twitter @PhilRanta for more insight on media and fatherhood:https://twitter.com/PhilRantaOfficial Website: Fathermaterial.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/father_material/Twitter: https://twitter.com/Father_Material

Nick Dazé is the co-founder and CEO of Heirloom. Before co-founding Heirloom, he was the co-founder of PocketList, and an early team member at tech companies such as Faraday Future ($FFIE), Fullscreen (acquired by AT&T), and Bit Kitchen (acquired by Medium as Knowable). He studied English at the University of Southern California and has spent his entire career in startups.Connect with Behind Company Lines and HireOtter Website Facebook Twitter LinkedIn:Behind Company LinesHireOtter Instagram Buzzsprout

The Association for the Recovery of Children (ARC) is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization (established 1993) comprised of former intelligence (CIA), military special operators (SEALs) and law enforcement personnel that rescue missing, exploited, abducted, or trafficked American children being held in the US or overseas. ARC's all-encompassing child recovery program comes at no cost to the custodial parents. We don't come home without the child. ARC WEBSITE: recoveryofchildren.org Our WEBSITE is extremely informative and has details about our child rescue operations ARC's EQUIPPING COURSE WEBSITE: www.recoveryofchildren.com ARC INTRODUCTORY VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMrTJx57QZg ARC's FIGHT Child Sex Trafficking Comprehensive Equipping Course: ARC hosts 6-day training courses all over the US. We train communities—people in all walks of life—how to identify child trafficking victims, how the criminal enterprise of human trafficking works, and how to intervene and rescue victims safely and successfully. DETAILS AT: https://recoveryofchildren.org/training.htm and https://recoveryofchildren.com ARC's Brochure Booklet (online version): http://recoveryofchildren.org/brochure.html (Due to the high quality graphics it might take 30 seconds or more to load the brochure on the page, so please be patient). The view can be enlarged to full-screen by clicking on the square symbol “Fullscreen” in the lower right corner of the booklet view window. · BAZZEL BAZ (Founder and President) http://www.recoveryofchildren.org/board.htm#baz FULL BIO: http://lifecoachbaz.com/aboutbaz.htm · TINA BAZ BIO https://tinapaulson.com/htprogram.html · PRIMARY ARC RESCUE OPERATORS: http://www.recoveryofchildren.org/directorate.htm ARC Facebook: @recoverchildren ARC Instagram: @recoveryofchildren ARC Twitter: @recoverychildren

View in HD at . If you notice that the Menu Bar at the top of your screen is missing, it is probably because you are using an app in Full Screen mode. You can customize how this works in System Preferences. You can also use Mission Control and Spaces to have the Menu Bar present for some apps and not others.

Cam Kashani is a four-time Award-Nominated Intuitive Coach and Inspirational Speaker focused on Divine Feminine Embodiment, leading women to their true, authentic, core power. She hosts a popular podcast called “The Cam Kashani Show”, focused on ‘Redefining Beauty, Body, and Self', has worked with 5000+ people, and was named one of the most "Inspirational Women" by Inc. Magazine, and has been featured in Forbes, Entrepreneur, LA Magazine, The Los Angeles Times, Delta SKY Magazine and more. She is also a single mom of twin boys. She is a serial entrepreneur, has built four companies, and has been an expert speaker with the US State Department in a program proven to ward off extremism by empowering the women and youth overseas. Previously, she cofounded the first coworking space in Los Angeles for technology startups and entrepreneurs in 2010, Coloft. During her four years there, Coloft had over 1800 alumni, including Uber LA, Instacart, Fullscreen and others. Earning her the title the “Godmother of Silicon Beach”.Cam has her MBA In Entrepreneurship and Marketing, in addition to a degree in Advanced Spiritual Psychology and her Doctorate in Spiritual Studies. Cam has a deeply rooted passion for working specifically with women as she believes that when women embrace their deeply rooted power, we can collectively shift the energy, and ultimately create a more harmonious environment for us all. 

In this IpX #TrueNorth Podcast, Sean Stavropoulos tells us how he turned passion into purpose as Co-founder/CTO of Boulevard. Sean shares the origin of Boulevard and the major roles that market research, product complexity, process development, and workplace culture played in developing a robust, adaptable product built for the best client experience.Learn more about Boulevard: https://www.joinblvd.com/Follow Boulevard:TwitterLinkedIn Instagram FacebookWatch this episode on YouTube. Bio: Sean Stavropoulos is co-founder and CTO of Boulevard, provider of the client experience platform used by more than 25,000 professionals in more than 2,000 salons, spas, and other self-care businesses across the US. In his role as CTO, Sean leads the company's various technical teams while establishing its strategic product vision. Prior to co-founding Boulevard in 2016, Sean was vice president of engineering at Fullscreen, where he oversaw the technical design and development of the company's core technology and payments products. His career also includes a stint as a systems engineer for Honeywell Aerospace. A resident of Los Angeles, CA, Sean holds a Bachelor of Science in Aerospace Engineering from California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo.Connect with IpX to hear more industry thought leaders. Learn how IpX can help your organization evolve with our functional blueprint for the ecosystem of tomorrow. Drive innovation, create a better customer experience, and enable your workforce as an organization built for change, speed, quality and resiliency. www.IpXhq.com

Das Live Shopping Experiment ist für Facebook und TikTok für Europa erstmal auf Eis gelegt worden. Instagram testet nun Full Screen Fotos. Und bald gibt es auch eine NFT Einbindung auf Instagram.Themen des Podcasts: Intro: 00:00Facebook und TikTok stoppen Liveshopping: 00:54Instagram testet Full Screen Fotos: 05:02NFTs auf Instagram: 09:15Die nächste Metaverse Masterclass findet am 12. August statt: dort könnt ihr alles über Brand-Strategien, Metaverse Marketing und NFTs lernen. Mit dem Promo-Code PODCAST erhaltet ihr einen 10% Rabatt.Weitere Informationen findet ihr hier.1. Kommt in den Discord und werdet Teil der großartigen Community2. Abonniert meinen Daily Newsletter für die neuesten Trends aus Tech und Media3. Podcast abonnieren: Apple, Spotify, Google & Amazon4. Folgt mir LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok & Twitter5. Ihr wollt euch weiterbilden? Hier sind unsere Masterclasses 6. Ihr sucht einen Keynote Speaker für euer Event? Sprecht mich gerne direkt an: teo@delta.pm

Instagram is walking back its changes for now — Adam Mosseri explains why (The Verge) The Instagram Stories is sponsored by Hashtag Slayer! Register at HashtagSlayer.com and use code IGStories for a free month. Want to support the show? Buy Me a Coffee Leave a Review: Apple Podcasts --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/danielhillmedia/message

Senate deal would revive EV tax credits for GM, Tesla and Toyota, Instagram backpedals on full-screen feed and reduces recommended posts, NASA's plan to bring rock samples back from Mars involves space helicopters.

Senate deal would revive EV tax credits for GM, Tesla and Toyota, Instagram backpedals on full-screen feed and reduces recommended posts, NASA's plan to bring rock samples back from Mars involves space helicopters.

Senate deal would revive EV tax credits for GM, Tesla and Toyota, Instagram backpedals on full-screen feed and reduces recommended posts, NASA's plan to bring rock samples back from Mars involves space helicopters.

Instagram chases TikTok with a new full-screen feed, changes to photos and navigation to come (TechCrunch) Instagram seems to have completely stopped caring about its users. Wait, Instagram has content that's not ads? (Mashable) Want an Ad-Free Instagram Experience?? Good news, Instander Updated!!! (Instander) The Instagram Stories is sponsored by Hashtag Slayer! Register at HashtagSlayer.com and use code IGStories for a free month. Want to support the show? Buy Me a Coffee Leave a Review: Apple Podcasts --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/danielhillmedia/message

Bachman is out for this week but have no fear as Chris and Willie are holding down the fort.  This week the guys dig into the It's Morbin' Time meme and the return of Morbius to theaters before digging into the potential costs to max out a character in Diablo Immortal.  To wrap things up Willie gives a recep of Sony's most recent State of Play.   For a full rundown of the show check out our show notes: https://bit.ly/ATGN488   Look for us LIVE Sunday mornings (11 AM EST) by checking out http://www.geeks.live  or http://live.atgnpodcast.com, where you will be either to participate via our chat room. We are also available via Twitter (@ATGNPodcast) Facebook (facebook.com/ATGNPodcast) e-mail (atgnpodcast(at)gonnageek.com) or our ATGN Hotline at 304-806-ATGN.     All Things Good And Nerdy is a proud member of the Gonna Geek Network.

This interview features James Creech, SVP Influencer Strategy at Brandwatch and founder of Paladin. We discuss how former GE CEO Jack Welch inspired James to be a number one category leader, using his down payment on a house to start Paladin, his make or break pivot when the creator economy evolved in 2018, working till 3AM over Christmas to sell his company, why James and I are kindred spirits, and the power of recasting your success.Subscribe to our newsletter. We explore the intersection of media, technology, and commerce: sign-up linkLearn more about our market research and executive advisory: RockWater websiteFollow The Come Up on Twitter: @TCUpodEmail us: tcupod@wearerockwater.com---EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:Chris Erwin:Hi, I'm Chris Erwin. Welcome to The Come Up, a podcast that interviews entrepreneurs and leaders.James Creech:Thomas and Ole and I all put considerable capital into the project. To put that in perspective, at the time, Thomas was getting married. His fiancé, she was amazing to say, "We believe in this dream, and we want to put that money that we would have saved for a big, nice wedding with our family and friends towards investing in this startup." I had been saving to buy a house, so I took essentially a down payment on what I would do to buy a house and said, "I'm all in on the business." Every penny to my name and probably even some I didn't have like went into Paladin. Then, Ole had recently gone out and bought a Tesla. He ended up driving back to the dealership and returning the Tesla, so he could take all of that money and put it into Paladin. So, every single one of us was all in from day one.Chris Erwin:This week's episode features James Creech, SVP influencer strategy at Brandwatch and founder of Paladin. So, James was born in Houston, Texas and grew up in Bakersfield, California with parents who worked in oil and gas. Early on, James was a creative. In high school, he made sketch comedy videos with his friends and thought film and TV was his future. So, he went to USC Film School and ended up running the college TV station, but soon realized that he really enjoyed and was good at the business side of entertainment. His career started at a video advertising startup, where he helped scale the team to over 40 employees, but then moved on to Bent Pixels, which started as an early YouTube MCN.Chris Erwin:While there, James took a big bet on launching a technology SaaS product for the early creator economy, which he ended up spinning out and leading as CEO, until its recent sale to Brandwatch just a few months ago. Today, James leads influencer strategy at Brandwatch and stays busy on the side, advising over 10 different companies and publishing content on his podcast and blog. Some highlights of our chat include how former GE CEO Jack Welch inspired James to be a number one category leader, when he used his down payment on a house to start Paladin, his make or break pivot when the creator economy evolved in 2018, working till 3:00 AM over Christmas to sell his company, why James and I are kindred spirits, and the power of recasting your success. All right, let's get to it. James, thanks for being on The Come Up podcast.James Creech:Hey, Chris. Thank you, excited to be here.Chris Erwin:This has been a bit of a long time coming. I think I was on your podcast a year or two ago, and I said, "James, I'm going to have to get you on mine someday." And, we're finally making it happen. When we were doing the prep, I just got even more excited, because I realized just how cool and exciting your story is. So, excited to share that with the listeners, and as always, let's rewind a bit. So, we're going to go back. Tell us about where you grew up, what your household and what your parents were like.James Creech:So, I was born in Houston, Texas, but grew up mostly in Bakersfield, California. So, I always tell people, "You could probably guess what my parents did for a living, right?" We worked in oil and gas. So, I spent most of my life, yeah, in Bakersfield, from ages four to 18, essentially. My childhood was great. I have a younger brother and sister. We're a close family. We had the chance to do a lot of traveling when we were younger, which was fun. I remember soccer practice and tennis and Cub Scouts, mock trial. We were involved in a lot of activities, and our parents were very much a part of those activities and the stuff that we enjoyed as kids.Chris Erwin:Quick interjection, how far did you get in Cub Scouts?James Creech:To the end of Cub Scouts. Never made it to boy Scouts.Chris Erwin:Did you achieve the Webelos badge?James Creech:Yeah, I was a Webelos. I think that's about as far as I made it.Chris Erwin:Nice. I did one up you a bit. I got to Eagle Scout with my twin brother.James Creech:Congrats. Wow, that's a huge achievement.Chris Erwin:It's a lot of work. Back to you, so grew up in Bakersfield, had some younger siblings. Early on, what were your passions? What were you into? Was there any glimpse into the career that you have today?James Creech:I think when I was a kid, I used to tell people what I wanted to be when I grew up, I said I wanted to be the governor of California. I don't know where that came from. I don't know that I have any sort of interest or passion in politics. I think as I got older, I would say I lacked the moral flexibility to pursue a career in that field, but was interested in politics and government early on. Somehow, that morphed into maybe being interested in law and going to law school at a certain point. I was pre-law at USC, so that was certainly a passion. I ended up doing the mock trial, as I mentioned, and then interned at a law firm and realized, hey, a lot of love for the legal profession, a lot of great friends who are lawyers, et cetera, but that probably wasn't the path for me.James Creech:In high school, the thing that really captured my intention was making videos with my friends, essentially comedy shorts. It's interesting, the timing, right? I was inspired by SNL and all these other amazing sketch comedy programs. Had I been a generation later, let alone maybe even five years later, the videos I made probably would've ended up on YouTube and now TikTok. But, because of the timing, I just made videos with my friends, and we made DVDs and shared them with our friends and family. But, it wasn't any sort of big distribution.Chris Erwin:It's never too late, James. It's never too late.James Creech:Yeah. There's an archive of a lot of old, embarrassing footage somewhere.Chris Erwin:Yeah, IP libraries are in high demand, high valuation. So, there could be something there.James Creech:So, that's what I was doing and figured, okay, well, I'm interested in media and entertainment. I applied and was accepted into the USC Film School and thought, okay, I'm going to go into film production, right? Fast forward a little bit, and I realized in college, well, I'm way more interested in the business side than I am in say the creative or the technical side. The stuff I liked doing in high school with my friends was making videos, which was really more about the experience of being together, less about the filmmaking process. But, yeah, that was kind of the early days.Chris Erwin:Yeah. So, I have to ask, what was your role in doing these sketch comedy or sketch segments? Were you a director? Were you a writer? Were you an actor? Was it all the above? And, I also want to hear, if you just have an example of one of the things that you guys did, I'd love to hear about it.James Creech:Oh, boy. So, I was an instigator. A ringleader is maybe the right word. We did all sorts of stuff. We were filming on these really small handheld cameras. I would certainly come up with sketch ideas and get my friends involved. We would shoot them. I would edit them. We would share them. There's plenty of stories that I can tell you, many of which are maybe too embarrassing for the podcast. So, we'll save that for a beer sometime, but one that definitely stands out is we kind of faked this kidnapping of our friend. He had a new girlfriend. He was really invested in that relationship, not spending as much time with our buddies. So, I said, "Okay, let's go to his house one afternoon, dressed all in black like ninjas," and his parents knew. We gave everyone a heads up, but we went in and kidnapped him for the day, which was a lot of fun. So, that's probably one that stands out.Chris Erwin:It's funny, hearing you tell these stories. So, I just started listening to This Is Important Podcast from the crew of Workaholics. They started just by making different sketch videos. They were filming wrestling matches in their backyard. Just hearing about some of their stories and how they started, and then they talk about, yeah, and then we sold the show to Viacom. How did this happen in Comedy Central?James Creech:Yeah, I wish that was the journey, was certainly inspired by Derrick Comedy and some of the other early, early YouTube sketch groups. We didn't get that far, right? It was fun to run around in our backyard and make videos, and that's where it ended for us.Chris Erwin:Yeah, cool. All right, so you get into USC Film School in 2012. I believe that you end up with a marketing and poli sci focus. But, tell us about you showed up at school. What was your initial focus? And, then it seems like it pivoted as you started to understand that you realized the appeal of the business side of entertainment, versus the creative side.James Creech:Yeah, so I went to USC, 2008. So, it was right around the housing crisis, financial crisis, which I don't know, as an 18 year old, you're fairly oblivious to. But, I was passionate about filmmaking. I was excited to be in the film program, also in the poli sci school. So, I was kind of running this dual track of, okay, well, I'm earning my political science degree, but I'm also taking these film courses and think that's what I want to do after I graduate. I got involved at the college TV station, called Trojan Vision, which is the largest TV station in the country. We broadcast to over a million homes, and I just kind of fell into it and fell in love with it. So, I was a producer on a show my freshman year, worked hard, got promoted to senior producer, second semester.James Creech:I was like, "Hey, I really like this TV thing. I like being involved at the station, meeting other students," applied for a staff position the next year and became an executive producer of a show. Okay, my first experience running a show, working in live television, it's exciting. It's the adrenaline rush of making something go on the air Monday through Friday. Through that experience, said, "Okay, I like the organization of the show, coming up with new ideas." We were experimenting with new technologies like HD broadcasts and live remotes and stuff at the time. So, I was like, "Okay, I'm excited about this," and people kept saying, "Maybe you should take some business classes." And, I thought to myself as a sophomore, well, hey, no. I'm doing the film path. I've got political science. I don't know what the business thing's about.James Creech:But, luckily USC has a very flexible structure and approach to curriculum. So, you could kind of dabble and take a couple classes. So, I said, "What's the worst that could happen? I'll take a business class or two," found out right away, hey, this is where I should be, and ended up transferring into the business school as a junior. So, I'm taking these intro 101 classes surrounded by freshmen. So, I had a very different mindset, let's say, going to the business school. I'm really excited to be here. There are certain things I want to learn. I'm finding ways to apply this over at the television station. I had been promoted to the general manager, so I was running the whole station at this point, which is a real budget.Chris Erwin:That's a lot of responsibility at a young age. What you said, it's one of the largest college broadcast stations in the US, and you're going ... Is there live programming Monday to Friday? That's a big deal.James Creech:Money through Friday, yeah, hours and hours of content. I was working essentially a full time load, basically 40 hours a week while going to school. But, I loved it. I loved every minute of it, creating television, working with students, and making something out of nothing, and putting it on the air every night, sometimes better, sometimes worse. But, I loved it.Chris Erwin:Okay, so you start taking these business classes, and right away, you're like, "This is a good fit." Then, what are you starting to think about what you want to do when you graduate?James Creech:Between my junior and senior year of college, I got an internship at Blizzard Entertainment. I grew up as a gamer. I wasn't necessarily a desktop gamer. I was more of a console gamer, but loved the opportunity to get exposure to another form of entertainment and work in a bigger company and try to decide what was right for me. So, as I was going through that process, had a great summer internship experience, came back, and had the opportunity to say, "Do I continue as the general manager of the TV station one more year as a senior?" But, kind of realized, maybe it was time to pass on the baton. So, it was hard to say goodbye, but I ended up getting another internship opportunity at this ad tech startup, this company in LA that was helping brands and media agencies promote video content on YouTube.James Creech:This was pre TruView, very early days, helping to make videos go viral. I was just, I guess, really interested in social media, but also, a USC alum was the COO. She was hiring. It was close to campus. It paid. I'm interested in this career path, but also it checks a lot of the boxes as a student that I want to make sure it's a good fit. So, I fell into that internship opportunity and just got hooked right away on the adrenaline rush of working in early stage companies. So, meanwhile, I had been recruiting, trying to figure out what do I want to do after I graduate. I had out law school or becoming a lawyer from my internship opportunity. I realized, okay, I'm more interested in the business side, so I'm gravitating towards that.James Creech:I like this startup company I'm working at, but I had always thought of myself as going into corporate America. So, I did recruitment on campus. I was offered a job to do business consulting and move to New York, which was kind of my dream. I was very excited as an almost 22 year old getting ready to graduate, moved to the Big Apple, and have this, what seemed like a really exciting, glamorous job at the time with travel and everything else. But, long story short, fell into working at Channel Factory, this ad tech startup, loved the team and the mission and the opportunity. They convinced me to stick around, so ended up declining the offer to do consulting and stay on the startup trajectory.Chris Erwin:I think what I'm starting to see here is you're on a unique path where you have both the creative know how and understanding, as well as the business savvy. That's very rare in Hollywood, right? I think of people like Bob Iger at Disney that has both of those sides of the brains, but it's a pretty rare profile, which probably explains a lot of the success that you've had in a very young career to date. Okay, so you go to Channel Factory, and what do you focus on there? Because, it seems like you start at the company when it's pretty early on, and they're on a really high growth trajectory. And, you facilitated some incredible wins there. Tell us about that.James Creech:Yeah, it was ground floor, right? It was in the founder's living room, essentially. We were building a business out of thin air, which was enticing to me and kind of felt similar to live TV production. Okay, there's this excitement. There's this adrenaline rush. You can have a big impact. So, I was basically the fifth employee, came in as an operator, doing a little bit of everything, strategic projects, built out ad operations group, hiring, training, commercial ops. I ended up working quite a bit coaching and supporting and at some points managing some of the sales team.Chris Erwin:This is all in like your young mid-20s, right? Because, you just listed off a lot of different things.James Creech:Yeah. We were all young, for the most part at that time. We were early 20s. It was a young company. It was an exciting opportunity in an early stage of the business. We ended up, of course, bringing in some more senior experienced folks, but there was this meritocracy to an extent, this excitement for youth and passion. So, we were all kind of figuring it out as we went along, and I was this person who didn't know anything going into it, but was just excited about where the company was going and the type of impact that I could have. So, we grew that business to whatever, 40 plus people, and close to or exceeding eight figure revenues. We opened offices in New York and Chicago. It was this wild ride for two and a half years, so learned a lot of lessons, both good and bad.Chris Erwin:Can you elaborate on some of those lessons?James Creech:I learned a lot about how to treat people, right? I didn't always agree with the founder and the leadership at Channel Factory. I had some great people that I learned from and supported me. Then, there were certainly some differences of opinion at times. I would say the other thing is it taught me a lot about the type of leader that I wanted to be and the type of business that I wanted to build one day. It's instructive to learn what not to do sometimes, as it is to learn what to do. But, I got great contacts and relationships. A lot of the people at Channel Factory have also gone on to do some amazing things, many of whom have become very talented entrepreneurs. So, it was this kind of amazing talent pool and this breeding ground for incredible individuals who were passionate about digital video and making an impact on the space, and that's been exciting to be a part of. There were certainly some things that we did really well, and being a young company, made a lot of mistakes, myself included. And, you learn from that and keep going.Chris Erwin:I love what you said. I always repeat this in interviews. It's very important to learn what not to do or what you don't like. In the beginning of my career where I was an investment banker, I worked with some incredible people and developed some incredible skills. But, there was also a lot of experiences and things that I was exposed to that I really did not enjoy, I thought were not good influences to the rest of my career. I consider that very valuable. When I talk to young people that are emerging from the undergrad and entering the workforce, it's this thought of, I have to nail my first few jobs, and that sets up everything for me. The answer, no, I don't recommend that.Chris Erwin:Try new things and experiment, and if it doesn't go well, that's totally okay. And, you're going to learn from that. That was some of the most valuable experiences for me. So, I like what you just said there, James. I think that's spot on. So, after a few years there, you then end up at Bent Pixels, where you also realized some great wins for the company. So, tell us about some of the work that you were doing there and how this set you up for your first big entrepreneurial venture, which is Paladin.James Creech:So, I entered Bent Pixels as an operator. That's what I had done at Channel Factory. The company at the time was a multichannel network in the heyday of MCNs, right? So, there was this time of excitement around Maker Studios and Fullscreen and Awesomeness TV, and Machinima, this early wave of digital disruptors helping YouTube talent grow their audience, monetize their content, figure out the early stages of influencer marketing, and what now we've grown to know as the creator economy. But, this was ground zero, right? You remember. You were there, too. So, this was the very, very early stages of what these future digital businesses were going to look like.Chris Erwin:And, tell us exactly, what did Bent Pixels do specifically? Were they a software platform for the early creator economy?James Creech:They did three things, right? They were a traditional YouTube multichannel network, so they provided services to YouTube channel owners and creators to help them monetize their content. They offered digital rights management services, so they would help IP rights holders monetize and enforce anti-piracy against their content on YouTube. So, they were using the content ID tools and additional manual services to help manage those content libraries. Then, they did audience development, so they were doing channel management and audience growth for brands that wanted help with their YouTube presence, so not unlike Fullscreen, Maker, many others at the time, right? So, when we came in, Bent Pixels was probably a top 30 global MCN. It was probably in the top five for rights management. I don't know, hard to say where it fell in the audience development or channel management services business, just because so many people were trying to get into that space.James Creech:We were doing all of this and facilitating it through technology, right? So, when I came into the business, I mentioned I started as an operator. And, I looked around, and I said, "This business doesn't need operators, right? We have a very capable COO, a general manager." I was looking for ways to do process improvement, cut costs, or optimize systems. There just wasn't much of that to do. The company was profitable and growing, and it had been fairly well managed, right? Well, what the business needs is growth. That's completely new to me.James Creech:I don't really know the space I was coming from, I say is the demand side. I was working with brands and media agencies, and all of a sudden, I kind of end up on the supply side, right? Now, I'm working with talent and content creators. This business doesn't really need all of the skills that I necessarily have historically had. So, we've got to figure this out, right? So, I just reached out to as many people as I could in my network and then through LinkedIn and said, "Hey, I'm curious to learn more about this space. Are you up for getting together for coffee or having a conversation?"Chris Erwin:This is very interesting. What was your primary networking tool? Were you using LinkedIn back in the day for this?James Creech:I was super early to LinkedIn, and I would just reach out to people. I would say, "Hey, I think what you're doing is really interesting. I think this space is early on. There's probably a lot we could learn from each other. Are you open to meeting for coffee or jumping on a call?" And, you'd be surprised, so many people said yes, especially all over the world, right? I was meeting people in Europe, Latin America, Asia-Pacific. It was this amazing opportunity to meet these other entrepreneurs who were like, "Yeah, everyone's early. We're all trying to figure this out. What are the things that are working for you? What are the challenges?" So, it was a lot of just connecting and sharing and learning from one another. But, obviously LinkedIn has changed a lot, A, over the years, B, post-Microsoft acquisition. But, in those early days, I was a young, snotty nosed kid, very earnestly trying to meet people and be helpful to the extent that I could. And, people were very kind to share their time and experience with me.Chris Erwin:I love that. You and I were actually just talking about this, I think, on LinkedIn. I just started a 30 day LinkedIn challenge. I think LinkedIn is one of the most powerful social networking platforms for professionals, hands down. I've been pretty active on it for the past few years, but our team is definitely ramping up our investment in it in terms of the type of content that we're creating. We've been doing a lot of experimenting, as well as the cadence of content as well.James Creech:Which is amazing. I can't wait to follow your content journey. I did something very similar in 2021, where I wrote every weekday, and it was such a stretch goal. I learned a ton from it, which we can talk about at some point, but I love LinkedIn, very supportive of the platform's evolution into becoming more of a content destination, and like you said, showcasing professional stories and helping people connect. It's getting back to some of those early roots of what it helped me pursue in my career.Chris Erwin:I love that. Well, maybe we'll have to do a mini series of a podcast about LinkedIn best practices. So, you start reaching out to all these different contacts across the world, focused on how do we share mutual learnings, and how do we grow? So, what did you learn? Then, what did you take from your learnings and apply to Bent Pixels?James Creech:So, what I kept hearing was everyone was facing similar challenges, especially as we tried to figure out how to scale. You have to remember at the time, people were focused on initially hundreds of creators. Then, it became thousands of creators. At the highest levels of Maker, Awesomeness, we were managing tens of thousands of creators. Bent Pixels had tens of thousands of YouTube channel partners that they were supporting. This was before YouTube had the infrastructure tools, resources, support to help those creators themselves. So, MCNs were the first line of defense. The demand, the excitement for the space was so dynamic that it was this gold rush mentality, this exciting time of help and enable as many channel creators as possible.James Creech:So, we had been building some software internally at Bent Pixels at the time out of necessity to figure out, okay, how do we find the right creators? How do we manage those relationships, pay them accurately and on time? Eventually, that would become, how do we manage branded content projects with them? Everyone else was doing the same thing. They were trying to build tools in house. They were trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. How do we take Salesforce and DocuSign and all these other tools off the shelf, stitch them together into this Franken-suite, and hope for the best? And, it was expensive, and it wasn't working. So, I kept hearing this, and I thought to myself, well, hey, if everyone's facing the same problems, and we're building what to me feels like a pretty good software solution for this, that should be the business, right? I was a big acolyte of Jack Welch back in the days. I would read a lot of his books, this legendary CEO and leader of GE.James Creech:One of the things that stuck out to me is, if you're not one or two in a category, you should cut it, right? So, it just occurred to me at every leadership meeting, I was like, "We have an opportunity. There's this untapped market potential to build software for this new breed of creative companies, and no one's doing it right. So, we should be first to market. We could be a leader there. It's great that we have this profitable growing business, but we're never going to win, right? We're not going to be one or two in the category. We're going to be ... Maybe we move from 30 to 20 or five to three, right?" So, I was advocating for that. Now, the way it was perceived on the other side is, well, wait a minute. We've built this business, at that point I think over five or six years. It is growing. It is profitable.James Creech:All these other companies have raised massive VC investment. They have a lot more resources. We're happy with our business, and we want to keep developing it, but we're not going to bet the house on James's crazy idea, right? They were advocating, hey, let's get into paid media. It's what a lot of other people are doing at the time. There's a big opportunity. I had that background from Channel Factory. So, they kept saying, "No, forget about that. Focus on paid media." I don't know. I was persistent, probably very annoying, young naivete, saying, "I really believe in this idea. Just give me a shot." They shut me down a few times and just said, "No, let's focus on the paid media thing."James Creech:Until, finally one day in some leadership meeting, with the support of our CTO Ole at the time, they said, "You know what?" I think maybe just to shut me up, "Okay, fine, right? You can have two months, 60 days. Give it a shot. Let's see what happens, right? And, if it doesn't work," which they fully expected it wouldn't, "After the field experiment, we'll go back to focusing on paid media." And, I said, "Sounds like a fair deal to me, right? I'll take that bet." So, in those next two months, I signed Maker Studios, Defy Media, Me Too, Networks, and 2btube, which would later go on to become the largest Spanish language creator community in the world. So, all of a sudden, they said, "Wait a minute. This is really interesting. We didn't think you would sign a customer, let alone four of the top players in the space. This is absolutely what we're focusing on, and you should do this full time."Chris Erwin:Did you have to evolve the technology product to service these clients as well as reposition your services to actually close these prospects? So, you had to do both, because you didn't have a technology background before this. You hadn't built tech products. You weren't a project manager, but you had to become this for this new role, correct?James Creech:Yeah. I am passionate about technology, had never been in product, had been adjacent to it, but said, "Yeah, we've got to figure this out." We built a software application that's meant for internal use. We have to figure out access rights, provisioning, white labeling, to make this an externally consumable tool. We need to figure out how to price it. We have to figure out how to sell this to our essentially competitors, right? We were working with these companies that were also in many respects offering the same services or going after the same talent. So, in some conversations, that was a bit awkward, right?James Creech:It said, "Well, how do we know that you're not going to take this data or use this technology to better your business and not ours, right?" So, that was a tricky thing to dance around and navigate. Huge props due to our technical team, Ole our CTO, [inaudible 00:25:56], a lot of our early engineering design product resources who were making this thing happen behind the scenes. I was out there kind of selling the dream, but they were the ones executing on this. A lot of it was just need finding, listening to the market. What do you need? Does the current tool in some form serve that? How do we adapt it to fit what you need? And, what else should we be building in the future so that we can help you get there?Chris Erwin:Hey, listeners, this is Chris Erwin, your host of The Come Up. I have a quick ask for you. If you dig what we're putting down, if you like the show, if you like our guests, it would really mean a lot if you can give us a rating wherever you listen to our show. It helps other people discover our work, and it also really supports what we do here. All right, that's it, everybody. Let's get back to the interview. It's interesting, because just listening to this story, one version would be ... And, James builds this incredible business at Bent Pixels, and he does that for the next 10 years of his career. But, the reality is that actually, you're there for a couple years, and then you found Paladin. So, after this initial two months of success, what actually caused you to say, "Hey, I want to break out and create a different suite of technology tools for the creator economy?"James Creech:So, I think in success, we got even more excited and probably a bit persistent on my idea that, okay, this is really working. We're now signing more and more customers. We're going to put more resources into this. Now, we are the market leader. We're first to market. We're building a name for ourselves in this category. People are rethinking the perception of Bent Pixels as a software company, as a technology vendor, whereas to creators, there's still this brand identity around being an MCN, being a services business, being a media company. But, I'm kind of casting Bent Pixels in this new light and trying to position or change the branding to be this enterprise software tool. Meanwhile, that business segment is growing. Engineers are expensive, so we're adding a lot of headcount to service the need and the customers.James Creech:It got to a certain point where I'm still advocating, hey, let's sell off or shut down the other business units, because look around. A number of other acquisitions had happened. Awesomeness was acquired by Dreamworks. Maker Studios sold to Disney. There was all this M&A activity happening. So, I'm like, "Okay, it's probably a good time to think about what does an exit look like for the media business?" Then, we can focus. We can really double down on this technology play. So, I was advocating for that. The rest of the leadership team said, "It's very clear that you're passionate about this. We don't necessarily all share the same vision or belief in that strategy, but obviously, the way you run a media company and a tech startup, a high growth tech company, require different fundamentals, principles, capital. So, maybe these businesses should live on their own, right?"James Creech:So, that's when the idea was floated that we should spin it out, right? So, it was at the time myself, Ole, our CTO, and I had convinced my good friend and partner in crime, Thomas Kramer, who worked with me back in the Channel Factory days. So, he and I kept in touch. We would catch up and talk about a lot of these challenges. I said, "Would you come over here and lead product for us?" He got excited about that vision and that opportunity, so it was really the three of us advocating for this opportunity. Initially, I was kind of resistant, to be honest. I said, "No, like, I think this is where the business is going. We should focus on this." Ultimately, saw the light that, yes, okay, we should separate these companies.James Creech:For a long time, I wanted the software business to continue to be called Bent Pixels, and that maybe the media company should rebrand as something, Millennial Studios. There were some other ideas that were floated, but after whatever, six months of back and forth and working it out cooperatively as a team, we decided, okay, Thomas and Ole and James will basically buy the software IP and spin out and form a new company, and then will rebrand it, come up with a new name. Bent Pixels will continue as a customer of Paladin, but there will not be any formal relationship between the two businesses. I wanted to be very clear that Paladin is its own company and eliminate that conflict of interest idea. I think Bent Pixels was very happy to say, "Okay, we can offload these expenses from developers and sales people and everything else off our books, focus on our knitting, and get back to the growth of the media business." We worked that all out to happen April of 2016. So, that was when we took the leap and said, "Okay, we're going to set out on our own."Chris Erwin:Did you raise outside capital to give you and your two other founders the ability to purchase the software, purchase the IP, and kickstart what you called Paladin in April, 2016?James Creech:We didn't. We thought about it, but the way we originally structured the deal was Thomas and Ole and I all put considerable capital into the project. Then, some of our partners from Bent Pixels also came in as angel investors. They said, "We like you guys. We believe in what you are doing. We want to support you." So, they were kind enough to give us a little bit of seed capital to help us get through the early days of burn and very kindly help us figure out how to set up our books and transfer the employee leases and all these things that as first time entrepreneurs, you have to figure out. So, they were very helpful and kind and patient with us. But, Thomas and Ole and I were pretty much all in.James Creech:So, to put that in perspective, at the time Thomas was getting married, and he had promised his fiance this amazing wedding. She was amazing to say, "We believe in this dream, and as part of starting our life together, we want to put that money that we would have saved for a big nice wedding with our family and friends towards investing in this startup, right?" So, that was Thomas's contribution. I had been saving to buy a house, so I took essentially a down payment on what I would do to buy a house and said, "I'm all in on the business."James Creech:Every penny to my name and probably even some I didn't have like went into Paladin. Then, Ole has the best story of all, was living in Norway. He's Norwegian and had recently gone out and bought a Tesla, right? Because, he loved the sustainability mission. He loved electric cars, this beautiful new vehicle, right when they had first come out, 2016. He ended up driving back to the dealership and returning the Tesla, so he could take all of that money and put it into Paladin. So, every single one of us was all in from day one.Chris Erwin:Dude, this is wild, because typically, VC backed founders, if the founders have a new business idea, they will mitigate the risk by saying, "Okay, I'm going to contribute a significant amount of my time, right?" It could be a few years in building out this venture, but they're not putting in their own capital. They're going to get capital from third parties, venture funds. Then, that capital is going to be at risk. You are essentially doubly invested with your time and your own savings. But, I think what that means is that you probably had so much belief in what you are building that you wouldn't have done it otherwise.Chris Erwin:I think that belief is clearly very powerful, and for all of you guys to have had that, where you have Thomas contributing his wedding funds, and you have Ole contributing his Tesla funds, and you're even getting from former Bent Pixel employees, angel investment. I think that shows there's really something there. It's almost like with those dynamics, it would've been easy to raise venture capital, because they would've looked at the founders and said, "Oh, my God, their gumption that this is going to happen is so powerful, we want to be in." But, probably better for you guys, because I know you will tell the story of how you sold the company. You guys owned the majority of the equity. I had never knew that story, James. I never knew those dynamics around your business. That's incredible.James Creech:Thinking back to the time, imagining how I felt, I remember being 25. Your goals and your priorities at 25 and whatever, early 30s, are very different. But, something inside me just said, "We have to do this, right? We have the right team. It's the right time. It's the right opportunity." You look at the data. Most successful entrepreneurs are in their 30s, 40s, 50s, right? They've had-Chris Erwin:The average entrepreneur is older than 40.James Creech:Right, and they've had time to build a network. They've had experiences, failures along the way. I had not thought of myself as an entrepreneur up until this point, but something just tugged at me where I was like, "I can't imagine doing anything else." Although I had historically been very risk averse, I was just like, "We can't miss this, right? We have to do it, and we have to do it now. And, if it means going all in, if that's what it takes, then yeah, let's do it. There's no better time to do it than when we're young." So, having that conviction, which I think again is a lot of ... We didn't know any better, right? We were just hoping for the best.Chris Erwin:Which, actually I think is a good thing, to be delusional. You have to be delusional as an entrepreneur. The odds are stacked against you.James Creech:Big time.Chris Erwin:And, you are delusional, but it worked in your favor.James Creech:Yeah, exactly.Chris Erwin:So, you start the company. All right, you all contribute your capital. Paladin is now a thing. So, what are the first steps? Do you rent an office together? Is it, okay, we've got five new hires that we've got to make? What did that first year look like for you?James Creech:Yeah, terrifying, right? You've just jumped off the cliff, and you have to figure out how to build the airplane. Everyone was excited. I don't know if other people were nervous, but we had engineers. We had sales people. We had product folks who were working with us.Chris Erwin:What was the total team size from the beginning?James Creech:It was small. I want to say it was eight to 10, right? We had three founders and then the engineering team and then some of the business folks in LA. We had an office. So, we continued to rent the office. Basically, everything that was in Los Angeles became Paladin, and Bent Pixels had historically been based out of Las Vegas, so they just kept their operations. But, yeah, we had the office lease. We had all these salaries and payroll we had to be responsible for. So, all of a sudden, it's a lot of responsibility overnight to take eight plus people's livelihoods into account. We were losing money every month, right? We're looking at the burn. We knew we had to sell like crazy to just get out of the hole. Our reserves were not very high. We're talking about, we started this business with a few hundred thousand dollars, not any sort of big investment and no VC capital. So, it was all our money and very quickly needed to figure out, okay, how do we make this thing work?Chris Erwin:What were some of the early proof points where it was, okay, this thing is going to exist for more than just six months? What were some of those early wins? And, did you ever think about raising venture capital?James Creech:So, we sold like crazy in order to get to the break even point, and that was 100% of my time and energy in those early days. I think one of the biggest turning points was closing Awesomeness TV. So, I was working with a lot of your former friends and colleagues, Matt Levin, Parker Jones, Kelly Day, also worked a lot with Jen Robinson, the CTO. This was the first six figure deal that we closed as Paladin. I'm trying to remember if that's true. Maker Studios, I think also ended up being a six figure deal, but I think the original commitment was smaller. So, when I closed the Awesomeness deal, it was the biggest customer we'd ever signed. It was like, wow, we're a real business all of a sudden, that this huge venture backed company is going to make a bet on this small startup and offload a lot of its cost. Awesomeness was spending significant sums of money and engineering headcount on these processes at the time.Chris Erwin:Awesomeness spent a lot of money back in the day.James Creech:And, look, they were managing probably the largest network in the world at a certain point, 90,000 creators. We said, "We want to come in and make that easier for you." I think in many respects, we could. Jen Robinson and others saw the opportunity and believed in us and worked really closely with us to make that happen. But, that was absolutely a turning point of, okay, we're signing, as customers, some of the biggest players in the world. They're making this bet on us, and these are real contracts with real budget behind them. That was certainly a turning point.Chris Erwin:This is great to hear, considering the current macro-economy that we're going into, right? So, we are recording this podcast in the middle of May. We have faced, over the last quarter, the 1.4% decline in GDP in the US. I think there's a lot of signals of the global macro-economy slowing. Out of China, there's supply chain issues, rising interest rates, inflation. You name it. I say all of this, because companies are going to need to start thinking about ... I think access to venture capital is going to become a lot more challenging.Chris Erwin:So, what's the best form of capital? It's revenue, and it's having a business that works. So, you guys, that was your approach in 2016, which is, if we're going to finance this business, we're going to create a product that meets the market need, and we're going to sell it successfully. Then, so you closed some big deals like Awesomeness. So, that early validation must have been very rallying the team, and we got something here, right? So, it seems like that success continues for a bit. But, then there's a point in your business where you were telling me a pivot had to happen, right? So, kind of tell that journey from that founding. You have some initial success like the deal you just mentioned, and then what is happening until you realize something's got to change here?James Creech:So, first of all, I love putting it in context, because at the time, people would ask us, "Oh, are you venture backed, right?" As if that were a sign of stability, right? We would do info-sec evaluations through Disney, through Viacom for Awesomeness. People wanted to make sure we weren't going to go out of business tomorrow. I remember thinking to myself, yeah, I would tell people kind of jokingly, "Yeah, we raise money from our customers, and we call it revenue. We have this different model. We're bootstrapped. It's very unusual," and people got a kick out of that. But, to me, it was, okay, we got over the hump. Now, we're break even, profitable. We're reinvesting everything back into the business. So, we closed the deal. We hire another engineer. We hire a new salesperson. But, you had asked, did you ever entertain the idea of raising capital?James Creech:We did. Probably the most serious thought we had around it was we looked at potentially acquiring Epoxy. I don't know if you remember those guys back in the day. They had raised a significant sum. They were great entrepreneurs with a good idea that was probably just a few years ahead of their time, backed by some of the biggest VCs here in LA. I think they raised something like $8 million and just were having a tough time figuring out the business model. This was before people thought, well, can we get creators to pay for anything? And, I really liked Juan and Jason, and they introduced us to Mark Suster at Upfront. We spent a lot of time together, saying, "Does it make sense for Paladin to get an additional capital infusion and then acquire the Epoxy asset and turn it into an enterprise product?"James Creech:We figured we have relationships. We know how to sell this. For a variety of reasons, we decided not to proceed, and it's a shame. They ended up selling the business to someone else, but that was the most serious discussion we had around it. The business certainly changed significantly over the years, right? So, in those early days, we were primarily focused on helping multichannel networks and other digital businesses, so talent management companies and agencies, figure out how to manage digital talent. First, it was YouTube. Very quickly, it became a multi-platform world. So, it was Vine for a little bit, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, et cetera. Then, you have things like Twitch come on the scene, and obviously later in our history, TikTok. So, the business was becoming much more multi-platform. The YouTube MCN business evolved significantly, right?James Creech:There were phases or stages to that business, but it became very clear that the 1.0 model of mass aggregation and monetizing off of the passive AdSense revenue was a bit of a dinosaur, and the new business model was focused on branded content and paid media and other incremental ways to build a business around the creative portfolios that these talent were were producing. So, we knew our business needed to change to keep up. The biggest signal was influencer marketing, right? If you looked at, well, how are creators making money, sure, they make millions of dollars a year in YouTube AdSense revenue, but there's this enormous opportunity from brands in branded content.James Creech:Then, of course later on, we'd see e-commerce, but at the time, we said, "Okay, we need to build tools to help our customers and ideal future customers support this activity. So, let's build better influencer identification and discovery tools. Let's build a much more robust CRM for not just agencies, but for brands. Let's think about creating sales materials, because people are spending so much time generating pitch decks, right?" I remember running influencer campaigns, and it was, okay, go ask the influencer for screenshots and put that into a PowerPoint presentation. Email it over to the client, and then they're going to ask for revisions.James Creech:You go back and forth, right? Why don't we just tap into the social APIs, pull all that data on demand, and create this robust real time reporting around the campaign, so that, A, you deliver better results, and B, you can actually monitor and optimize campaign performance in real time. So, that was really the direction that we started to go, was saying, "Okay, as much as we still want to support these customers and this opportunity, we're slightly modifying our strategy, and we're adjusting course to go pursue this influencer marketing opportunity, because it's brands and agencies figuring out how to work with creative talent in the digital economy."Chris Erwin:Got it. That was a big pivot that happened around what time, James?James Creech:Around 2018, 2019.Chris Erwin:And, so did that cause some real friction at your company? Did you have to rethink, hey, do we have the right team? Do we have the right sales strategy? Do we have the right relationships? Do we have to rethink how we're doing coverage? Do we need to build new products and services? And, do we have the right director of engineering to do that? So, what were some of those big key decisions that you had to work through as you pivoted the business?James Creech:Well, certainly, changing the identity and the branding of the business a bit, also the product offering, right? So, again, going back to need finding, what do the customers want? How do we build that out? It's easy to build something for one customer, but how do we build something for hundreds or thousands of customers? And, what is the right team composition that will help us to get there, right? It's classic innovator's dilemma of, well, we're still very dependent on these existing customers and their business needs. And, we want to continue to support that. But, at the same time, we need to be investing in this new direction. And, there were some hard conversations and hard decisions that came about from that, right? Some people on the team were very excited, made the transition easily. Other people said, "Maybe this is my stop on the train, and I'm going to get off and pursue other opportunities."James Creech:Other people were excited about the direction and couldn't make it work, or performance started to slip as we shifted strategy. So, you have to make some tough calls, but the team worked really hard through that time period to help us change course. It's not the most dramatic pivot in the world, but it certainly felt like a big shift at the time. It didn't happen overnight. We've got this North Star. We're going to move towards it over the course of 12, 24 months. And, I remember we got our entire team together in Poland. We've historically had a big operations center for engineering in Kraków. We brought the whole team in to Poland and said, "This is our vision. This is what we're going to build together." I think that was really energizing, to harness the energy of everyone and say, "We have this shared mission and objective. Here's why we believe it's going to drive business value, better opportunity." And, it wasn't easy, but certainly was the right choice to start to move in that direction.Chris Erwin:I like that a lot. We had a team reflection last week, and we're realizing that just having run an advisory business for five years that has gone through a rebranding and a transformation in the last couple years, as we're entering this new macro-economy and just also thinking about who are the clients we work with when we provide certain services? What feels great and is right in our wheelhouse, versus what feels like we're stretched or doing something different? And, there was a big kumbaya moment where we came together. To better service our clients in the industry, we need to really rethink things. It was some tough conversations, but when you just face it head on, and then you empower your team and be like, "You guys are all here for a reason. What are your ideas for how to fix this? And, how do we all rally behind that?"Chris Erwin:And, it was a very powerful moment. I'm saying that, because it feels like when you had this conversation with your engineering team in Poland, you have to face this stuff head on. There's certain people, like you said, this is their stop on the train, and they're going to get off. But, for those that it's the right fit, keep going forward. That's best for everybody. I particularly feel very reinvigorated after this conversation, and I see this incredible potential for success going forward. I have a much smaller business than what you have. Did you feel coming out of that, you're invigorated, you're excited? And, did you have that same feeling when you first founded Paladin of, we got this, we're going to crush this? There's no doubt in the world. Were you feeling that?James Creech:I wish I could say yes, but I don't think so. Founding a business and running a business is an emotional journey. I'm so privileged to have two amazing co-founders, because sometimes you have a bad day, or you lose sight of what you're building towards. They can help lift you up, and vice versa. But, there were some tough times around 2018, 2019, where we were making this change, because the environment, the business conditions around us had changed. We realized we needed to do something to continue to grow and to survive. Again, I started the business with youthful idealism and ambition. Sometimes, we set really high goals for ourselves, and we don't always live up to them. I'm still very proud of what we built and how we had done it, but it's easy to move the goal post on yourself.James Creech:So, looking at that time in our journey, I remember we were committed to figuring it out and moving forward. But, I have to tell you honestly, there were some very tough times in those years of ... Are we doing the right thing? Are we making the right choice? And, are we going to get through it? Because, it was really challenging. Once it started to work, absolutely, it felt amazing, right? Things really started to click in 2020, and I had more passion and enthusiasm for the business than I had back in 2016. It re-lit this fire in us of, okay, we got through the hard work, the two years of making this change. We see where it's going. We're rebuilding in this new direction, and it's fun. We're hitting our stride. Everything's growing really quickly. We're bringing on new customers, new team members. We're winning, and that's the exciting part. But, in the slog of making that transition, it wasn't always fun. That's for sure.Chris Erwin:I hear that, but I think you're right. There's just something as an entrepreneur and a founder and a CEO. You have to trust your gut. Are we having fun? Does this feel right? You can have all the KPI dashboards in the world and follow all the numbers, but there's just some intuition that's really important. As I reflect in my career, there's moments where I can specifically say I felt differently about a business decision, and I didn't listen to my gut, and it was a major miss. So, as a business owner, now I'm listening to my gut more. I want to be a database decision maker, but I think instincts are very, very valuable when you have to pivot and move quickly and also really energize your team. I hear that.James Creech:You need both.Chris Erwin:You end up selling the company to Brandwatch, which I think was just announced over the past month. So, I'm curious to hear the story to exit right after this success, the 2019 pivot to now. How did you end up selling to Brandwatch?James Creech:We were evaluating, what is the next step for us in 2021? As I mentioned, the business started to really hit its stride in 2020. We were looking around at the overall market landscape, and look, influencer marketing is a crowded, competitive space. It's great. It keeps us sharp, but we realized if we want to continue to grow and compete in this space, then we need to either raise money and start to double down on sales and marketing or execute on a broader roll up strategy. Or, we can find someone who shares our vision and our passion for this category, but has more resources and can help accelerate our growth, right? So, the calculus for us at the time was ... You look at our well known, well funded competitors. Do we go out and raise money? It's certainly a path. That's an option.James Creech:Paladin had customers in over 35 countries, across five or six continents. So, we were competing against different people in Germany, than we were in Singapore, than we were in Dubai. So, it was different by market, but we recognized that, okay, we need to raise capital to help accelerate, or we need to find an exit. So, thinking about the fundraising process, as I mentioned, we're bootstrapped. A lot of us had good, favorable positions on the cap table. If we raise money, you dilute the ownership, and you kick out the goal post, I don't know, two plus years, let's say. And, the other thing I was cognizant of is, well, it seems to be this interesting moment in time where things are happening at such a rate, people want to get into this space. It's probably the right time for us to find a partner. We had had a lot of inbound interest, so we said, "Let's test the waters and see what the reception is. If we don't find anyone we like, we can always fall back on our current plan of just keep growing, or we can look at the fundraising alternative."Chris Erwin:So, you were getting inbounds from companies that were interested in kicking the tires around you potentially in an acquisition?James Creech:Yeah. We have throughout the history of the business, but it became especially acute interest in, let's say Q1, Q2 of 2021. So, I reached out to my banker friend, Jason Rapp at Whisper and said, "It seems like there's some interest here. We should probably run a process. How should we handle these conversations?" So, he came on to help us with that, very quickly had some phenomenal conversations with great people that I think saw what we were building and wanted to help add fuel to the fire. But, I was fortunate to meet Giles Palmer, the original founder of Brandwatch, who now works at Cision, the parent company. We just hit it off. He said, "Can you spend some time with our product team?" We met the product and engineering team. It was like magic from the first call.James Creech:They loved the product. They saw what we were doing. It fit very neatly into their thesis and what Brandwatch has been building in and around consumer intelligence and being a leader in social listening. They have been merging with Falcon.io, which is an amazing social media management tool. Influencer marketing was very clearly just the third leg of the stool. So, we got excited about that. They said, "Hey, can we talk tomorrow? Can we talk Monday after that?" And, very quickly, it escalated where they made an offer, and it was the right offer and the right time. We said, "Yeah, let's go into diligence." So, we ran diligence over the holidays. So, I was at Christmas with my family, Christmas 2021, hanging out with family during the day, and then working until about 3:00 AM every night, because A, I had a lot of work to do.James Creech:And, B, I had these colleagues in Europe who were also burning the midnight oil on their holidays. So, going through all of DD, and then we kind of finished that in early to mid-February. At the same time, we were running a parallel path on the purchase agreement documents with legal, reached an agreement on that in end of February. Then, we had to do a 30 day hold for DOJ approvals, announced in March, and then finally closed the acquisition at end of March. So, long process, but a lot of learnings and an exhilarating outcome. So, it's been amazing to see it all the way through.Chris Erwin:Wow.James Creech:It is such a process, right? It's probably the hardest thing I've ever done. People tell at the end, "Oh, congratulations. We're so excited for you." And, that's amazing, right? You experience all the emotions of joy, excitement, elation, but at the same time, strangely, at least I also experienced this feeling of loss, which I think is natural. It's kind of closing of one chapter and beginning of another, where you're saying goodbye to this thing that you've built and you've poured so much of your energy and time and money and everything else into. It's like a kid maybe growing up and going to college.James Creech:It's exciting. It's the next evolution, but it's also saying goodbye to the thing that I knew in its past form. Then, honestly, there's this just overwhelming sense of relief, because a lot of it feels like deliverables and juggling so many plates and keeping everyone happy. Every different constituency has something else they want from this outcome. So, if you're able to get to a point where everyone's satisfied, or as much as you can, you just get it done. It's this amazing feeling of, whew, right? We did it, and that relief is also very comforting and satisfying, I suppose.Chris Erwin:One last quick question before we get into rapid fire is, what's next for James? You're going to stay on at Brandwatch for a while. Are you going to go start your next company? What are you thinking?James Creech:So, I have come on to Brandwatch as the SVP of influencer strategy. So, I get to work with the global leadership team to help think through how do we inject influencer and creator economy strategy into the entire business, which is so exciting, right? I've spent too much time and energy on this to walk away for now, so I'm very excited to be in this new phase of the business, doubling down on what we've built, adding more resources, combining that with the amazing product suite that Brandwatch has. So, I'm still all in, excited about what we're doing. As you mentioned earlier, I'm still involved in a lot of advisory engagements, and it's fun for me to get to give back and support other early stage entrepreneurs. So, still a big passion for me and something I make time for, but in terms of my day to day focus, yeah, it's 100% all in on Brandwatch.Chris Erwin:Before rapid fire, James, I just want to give you some kudos. I have known you for a while in the industry. I think our LinkedIn posts have crossed paths for at least over five to seven years. I think our relationship, we've gotten to know one another better, I think over the past couple. I was on your podcast. Now, you're on mine. I think there could be a fun future ahead where we collaborate on different things. That's a separate convo, but I just want to say, as I've gotten to know you, learning about just how thoughtful that you've been in building your business, how thoughtful, how you are in building for the creator economy, I think one of the things that got me excited when I entered the whole YouTube MCN space back in 2012 was this positive sum mindset.Chris Erwin:We can all grow together. There's incredible opportunity. I think that you embody that feeling incredibly well. You just put out a lot of positive, good juju into the world. You're very supportive of so many people. I think it has a really big impact, and I think it's a great inspiration for so many others. So, massive kudos, and I hear you on this notion of loss, loss and relief. You had this baby. You took a huge bet on it. It's worked out incredibly well for you and your team and your co-founders, but James, you're a young guy with a very bright future ahead. You have many, many more exciting wins that lie ahead in your future. Just have faith and the trust that we are lucky that you have the time to go and do that work.James Creech:Well, thank you. Thank you for all of that. It's very kind. I'm flattered, and I've felt for a long time that you and I are maybe kindred spirits in a sense, right? Oh, I've got to spend more time with this Chris guy, because you're very obviously very intelligent, well connected, thoughtful in the content that you share, the communities that you curate through your events and dinner series, and things like that. Also, I just think we have a lot of personal interests, like your real estate investing and everything else. So, any chance, any excuse I have to get more Chris Erwin in my life, I will take it. So, just putting that out there, because very much excited about that. And, one other note, maybe just to kind of close things out is, as I mentioned, started the business in my mid-20s. I'm now in my early 30s.James Creech:As you go through this process, I think the most impactful thing that I've learned is recasting what defines success. For a lot of peop

Eric Galen joins us in the Gamechangers studio at FlU's College of Communications, Architecture + Arts in Miami, FL! Eric Galen has been representing top founders, brands, startups, and creators for more than 20 years. Mr. Galen leads Greenspoon Marder's Innovation & Technology Group, where he leverages his unique background of corporate, Web3, media, and entertainment law to help clients succeed. Eric also serves as a member of the firm's Entertainment & Sports and Corporate & Business practice groups. Mr. Galen's diverse clients and collaborators have included: - Companies such as Intel, Microsoft, Doodles, E11even Crypto, Fullscreen, Route, Calm, GameSquare Esports, OPI, Jaunt VR, Baccarat, Blo Dry Bar, Awesomeness TV, Tik Tok, Imagine Entertainment, Milk & Honey, Audiomack, and Haute Living; - Investors like Fuel Venture Capital, Raised in Space, and Muse Capital; Talent such as Gwyneth Paltrow, Johnny Depp, Will.i.am, Perry Farrell, Gina Carano, Dennis Rodman, Mayor Francis Suarez, The Picasso Estate, Mike Dean, David Copperfield, and Norman Seeff; and - Executives at companies like Conde Nast, WME, Faze Clan, BeautyCon, Techstars, Raised in Space, and more.

Matt Danna is the Co-Founder and CEO of Boulevard, which powers next-gen salons and spas. Its mission is to modernize the technology while improving the daily lives of professionals and the clients they serve. Chad talks with Matt about discovering a problem and then making the jump to working on it, overcoming hurdles in terms of continued growth, and deciding to invest in building their own hardware by creating Boulevard Duo: a point of sale credit card reader. Boulevard (https://www.joinblvd.com/) Boulevard Duo (https://shop.joinblvd.com/products/duo) Follow Boulevard on Twitter (https://twitter.com/joinblvd), Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/joinblvd/), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/joinblvd/), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/boulevard/), or YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo9FyMtvqrDGHFl797iOhww). Follow Matt on Twitter (https://twitter.com/mattdanna) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattdanna/). Follow thoughtbot on Twitter (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Become a Sponsor (https://thoughtbot.com/sponsorship) of Giant Robots! Transcript: CHAD: This is the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots Podcast, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Chad Pytel. And with me today is Matt Danna, the Co-Founder and CEO of Boulevard, which powers next-gen salons and spas. Matt, thank you so much for joining me. MATT: Thanks so much for having me, Chad. Great to be here. CHAD: One of the things that I was interested in learning about Boulevard is it's a large product that does a lot for salons and spas. And so, I'm interested in talking with you about the process of getting to where you are today. But why don't we get started by giving folks an overview of everything that Boulevard does for salons and spas? MATT: Yeah, absolutely. So Boulevard offers what we think is the first and really only business management platform that's really focused around the client experience. We work with businesses that help all of us look and feel our best. And it's a really special industry to be powering where there's a really close sense of that human touch and that human element. We try to use technology to help automate and relieve the day-to-day operations as much as we can for these businesses so that they can focus on providing that world-class client experience and deepening relationships with their clients. CHAD: And tactically, that's online booking, scheduling, payments, schedule management, all that kind of stuff that goes into running. MATT: Yeah, absolutely. So it goes all the way from, like you said, scheduling to we are a fully integrated payments solution to even have time clock kind of commission reporting. And so it really goes from managing everything front of house all the way through back of house. And happy to share more about how we ended up building such a wide and deep product because it's definitely an interesting story. CHAD: So you were not in the salon industry prior to Boulevard, is that right? MATT: That's correct. CHAD: So, how did you end up getting brought into this industry? MATT: So the founding story...so my background is in software engineering, but I ended up turning much more into a designer over time. So I've been naturally drawn to building technology for creative individuals. And so, at my last startup, which was called Fullscreen, it was a startup here in LA. We were helping YouTube creators make better content online, helping them monetize on YouTube, understand their audience. And this was in the days where YouTubers couldn't monetize directly. They needed to go through a network. And so, we created this proprietary technology offering that really helped them understand how to build their audience and further monetize. So the original founding story was that I met my co-founder of Boulevard at Fullscreen. His name is Sean Stavropoulos. And I was the VP of Product. He was the VP of Engineering. And the kind of inception moment was that there was this week where Sean's hair was a complete disaster. CHAD: [chuckles] MATT: And as a great colleague, I was making fun of him [laughs] and telling him like, "Dude, you need to go get a haircut." And he said to me that he kept forgetting to call his salon during the day to make an appointment, and at night when he remembered to do those types of things, the salon is obviously closed. And we were just thinking how much friction there was as a client of these businesses in the booking process and that we didn't understand why you had to do basically so much work in order to be a client. It just was incongruent with what was going on in other industries and kind of restaurants and everything going through this digital transformation. Our hypothesis was that they must still be on pen and paper; they haven't adopted technology yet, and that's why you need to call to make an appointment. And we started thinking a lot about this problem and started obsessing over it. [laughs] And there was a weekend that we were hanging out, and we ended up walking into a few different salons and spas in a neighborhood that we were hanging out. And we did a bunch of research and asked them a lot of questions. We said we were UCLA students working on a research project. CHAD: [laughs] MATT: Which was a pretty smart move because everyone loves talking to students, and we weren't trying to sell them anything. We were trying to learn more. And so, a good research tip is just to state you're always a student. And we ended up learning. And we were super surprised that they were all using technology. All the technology that these businesses were using were also capable of online booking. And so we were like, "Okay, none of this makes sense. Like, you're making your customers call you, but you have these capabilities." We were like, "Do you need help embedding it into your website? Like, why don't you use online booking" And their answer would be, "We absolutely cannot use online booking, no way," which made us even more curious. And so what we ended up learning was that self-care businesses, you know, salons, spas, nail salons, you name it, they're generally running on pretty thin profit margins like in the 5% to 10% neighborhood because their labor costs are so high relative to their sales. And the other important piece that we learned was that the front desk has outsized control over the revenue that the business makes simply by how they place appointments on the calendar. And so when you call to make an appointment, they're looking up to see if you have a client file, to see if you've been there before, what services did you get? Who were they with? How long exactly did they take? They're also looking to see when they could fit you in. And they're doing double booking, triple booking whenever possible so that staff can be with multiple clients at once and double up. And then they're also making sure there are no gaps between appointments. And so they're doing basically this yield optimization, schedule optimization on the fly. And none of that was taken into account if customers self-booked using any of the solutions available on the market. And so we thought that seems like a straight-up technology problem to solve that these businesses needed an online booking solution so customers can have that convenience and self-booking whenever they want. But it also needs to take into account some of that business logic that the front desk follows so that they don't get gaps in the day and have a really sub-optimal and inefficient calendar. And so that's where we thought we could provide some particular value that would be unique in the industry. And that was what we focused our MVP on, was that very thing, having an intelligent scheduling solution. CHAD: It seems like it's a pretty big leap for the director of product and director of engineering at a startup to discover a problem like this and then actually make the jump to working on it [laughs] and making it real. Was there something in particular that happened? Why did you do that? [laughs] MATT: Yeah, I mean, we had a, you know, being executives at the startup and really loving the team, loving what we were doing, our mission. But I think one of the motivators and catalysts was when we were doing this field research. And we ended up going out to a couple of hundred businesses over the course of several weekends to learn even more about this problem area. But one of the things that was so evident and clear was that all of the technology in the market that these customers, these businesses were using, they were negative NPS scores. They were like, "Oh, we use, you know, X, Y, or Z solution, and we really don't like it. It's so hard to use." You would see the red in their eyes when they would talk about this technology." And we're like, "There's something very powerful here." And we weren't exactly sure at the time was it legacy technology not keeping up with modern needs of these businesses and the growing expectations from end consumers, or was it user error problems? And we had come to the conclusion that it was really a lack of innovation in the market from existing vendors. And that got us particularly excited, and we formed a lot of conviction, so much conviction that we made the leap to start working on this. So we transitioned out of our full-time executive day jobs, and we ended up doing a little bit of consulting work while we were doing a lot of product discovery. So for about six months, we were doing three days a week on Boulevard and a couple of days a week on consulting. So it was a nice little part-time way to keep paying the bills but also then be able to spend a significant amount of our brain space thinking about this opportunity and what problems we wanted to solve. CHAD: So maybe I'm just off base here. And I'm not trying to get you to say that something was wrong at Fullscreen. But it strikes me there needed to be something going on, in my mind, maybe I'm off base, for you to even before deciding to make that leap, though, to spend your weekends going to salons and doing interviews. MATT: Yeah, I think this is how most companies are started is by founders who are trying to solve a problem that they're exposed to. So everyone is always trying to build companies that are solutions for problems that they have. And we just, I think, got excited by this problem. And my background being in building technology for the creative individuals, like, I got really, really excited. And Sean took some convincing that this was worth it and that this could be a thing. CHAD: Was it an aspiration for you to find something that you could use to found your own company? MATT: No, no. CHAD: And then why were you doing it? [laughs] MATT: I think it felt like the right thing to do. I never considered myself an entrepreneur, and I really still don't. I think of myself as a builder, and I love building things. And this was in a way for us to think about, like, oh, let's build a company and turn this into a massive business. We saw that there was a particular pain point that was experienced from both consumers and businesses and that we could provide something special. It felt like it was something that only we saw, which I think made it feel even more compelling to work on. And so we didn't know if we were crazy at first. We always had this question of like, why hasn't anyone figured this out? This seems so obvious. I still don't know why we're the only ones that have any type of kind of logic on top of the schedule in that sense. But we saw it as a unique opportunity to build something really special and provide a lot of value to consumers and businesses. CHAD: Well, that's super interesting. So once you decided and you started working on Boulevard, how did you decide what to focus on first? And how did you set your market for what the first version was going to be or a target for what the first version was going to be? MATT: So, we focused on the businesses that had a front desk. So those are generally the ones that really struggled with getting the most out of every minute possible in the day. And so we focused on what were typically mid to upper market single locations to start, and we got introduced to a salon owner through a mutual friend. They were based in New York, and it was just a two-person salon. And so, we built our MVP to be able to support their day-to-day functions. And they were using some other system, so we kind of had to get to a place where there was general feature parity to support them. So we built up the features that we needed, and then we launched them, transitioned them off their previous solution. And then we did all this in person and then hung out with them for about a week or two after to babysit the system, make sure there weren't problems. We were iterating in real-time. Sean and I were releasing code. And from there, we got an intro to our second customer through another mutual friend. CHAD: How long did it take you from when you started to when it was live in that first salon? MATT: It took about nine months. CHAD: And were you self-funding that based on the consulting that you mentioned? MATT: Yeah, self-funding. And then, after we launched with the first business, Sean and I actually both liquidated our 401Ks. And we didn't have the time to continue to consult. So we bootstrapped the company and put our life savings into it once we had traction from our first couple of customers. And that's when we started to hire our first employees to help us continue to accelerate development and that kind of thing. CHAD: So again, liquidating your 401k is a pretty big step. MATT: Yep. CHAD: Did you try to do external fundraising before doing that? MATT: No. At that point, not yet. We wanted to really validate the concept on our own dime. And then, when we had paying customers and a decent customer base, we did a friends and family round. And then, once we achieved a certain milestone, we joined an accelerator, which is based in Los Angeles called Luma Launch. And we were part of that accelerator for about six months. And then we raised our series seed following that. We went from liquidating our savings, living like college students, ramen noodle budget-type to once we felt good about the value we were providing, had the case studies and the customer feedback, and had a pretty awesome MVP to show to investors; that's when we decided to fundraise. CHAD: How nervous were the two of you? MATT: Very nervous. [laughter] I mean, it's one of those both of us come from really, really humble families, and there was no safety net. And so we were all in. And I think often from when there's a lot of constraints; you have to find creativity. We were all in. We were working all the time on this, really gave it everything we had. And in hindsight, it was a good decision. But it could have easily been a terrible decision. [laughs] CHAD: I mean, this is one of the things with founding stories is we talk to the people who are successful. [laughs] So, would you recommend this path to other people? MATT: I think if it's something where you could see providing unique value to the world and that you have lots of validation from real people, not just your friends but from prospective customers...it was when we were talking to real businesses where they would say, "This is something we would use and pay for." And so, after hearing that dozens and dozens of times, that matched with the negative NPS scores with their current solutions. That's where we were like, "This can be something pretty special." So I wouldn't recommend building in isolation and making that leap of faith without really doing your diligence on the opportunity. But yeah, I think everyone, at some point, if they have an idea or a problem they want to solve, should give it a go. Mid-Roll Ad: I wanted to tell you all about something I've been working on quietly for the past year or so, and that's AgencyU. AgencyU is a membership-based program where I work one-on-one with a small group of agency founders and leaders toward their business goals. We do one-on-one coaching sessions and also monthly group meetings. We start with goal setting, advice, and problem-solving based on my experiences over the last 18 years of running thoughtbot. As we progress as a group, we all get to know each other more. And many of the AgencyU members are now working on client projects together and even referring work to each other. Whether you're struggling to grow an agency, taking it to the next level and having growing pains, or a solo founder who just needs someone to talk to, in my 18 years of leading and growing thoughtbot, I've seen and learned from a lot of different situations, and I'd be happy to work with you. Learn more and sign up today at thoughtbot/agencyu. That's A-G-E-N-C-Y, the letter U. CHAD: That first customer that you were building the replacement for, were you charging them? MATT: No, we were not. CHAD: Are they paying now? MATT: They are, they are, very little. CHAD: Okay. [chuckles] MATT: They're a small business and have been staying super successful. And so, in the earliest days, the learnings and feedback matter a lot more than revenue, and so you optimize for that as opposed to the economics. And so for us going and working on location at these businesses and they're paying us essentially in the learnings and teachings of helping us understand and absorb ourselves in this industry, and working as front desk and doing the jobs that all these professionals have to do. And so that's where we were able to build and get to a place where our product is really, really authentic. And it was from that first direct observation. CHAD: I've worked on products before where they're currently being done by people. They might have technology solutions in place, and they feel like there's no technology that will do this; we need to have a person being the one to do it. Because like you said, there's something special about a person doing it. And so sometimes those businesses, when they have a solution, even if they've properly solved it, there's a lot of resistance from customers who are very skeptical that the technology is going to be able to do it the right way. Have you encountered that? MATT: Absolutely. CHAD: How do you combat that? MATT: We iterated on, essentially, the objections. So the first objection was that "People can't book online because it's going to mess up my day." And so we created this what we call precision scheduling, where it does the optimization on the calendar. And then the next issue was that we started seeing some no-shows coming because I think there's this mental analog of if you miss an OpenTable reservation not as big of a deal. But in our industry that we're serving, if you miss a two-hour appointment, that professional is out a significant amount of their income for the week. And so that's where we actually started dipping our toes in payments, and we started requiring a credit card at the time of booking just to authorize the card and to hold the appointment. And so that objection of no shows we solved there. There was a lot of concern of like, "Hey, our customers are not going to know the right thing to book." And we have learned that customers actually are very savvy and that the clients deserve more credit than the professionals are giving them that if a woman gets a balayage, she knows it's a balayage. And so, usually, the way that we overcame that objection was we'd work with them and have best practices on menu design. But that they also then, when they're giving a service that they discuss what they actually did in that service so that the customer knows what to book next time if they want the same thing. And so that was kind of the pattern is like, build something, learn, iterate, and do it on location with these businesses so that we could see it firsthand in an unbiased way. And so that's really how we were able to build such a product with this amount of scale and overcome some of those initial objections. CHAD: Is it easier now that you have 2000-plus customers, some social capital out there? They can ask other people, "Is this working for you?" Is that easier now? MATT: Absolutely. Absolutely. One of the ways...we didn't have a sales team for a long time in our company, and we were actually under the radar. We were stealth, didn't announce anything about ourselves for the first three or four years. And so we were just very much focused on product development and building something that was incredible. And then we were really fed off of referrals and that word of mouth. So it's I think when you get a product that people love, they're going to tell their friends about it. And for us, that really helped accelerate our growth. CHAD: So yeah, so this was all taking place in what year? MATT: So we transitioned out of our last company and started doing part-time work in summer of 2015. And then, we officially launched our first customer in spring of 2016. CHAD: Cool. And I think that that is, you know, you didn't get to 2,000 customers overnight, right? You've been at this for a while. MATT: Yeah, the barrier to entry is very high in the market, and VCs called our type of opportunity a brownfield opportunity where there are a lot of legacy solutions in the market. And we compete with some companies that were actually started before I was born. CHAD: [chuckles] MATT: And so they've had many decades to build functionality into their platform that we need to get to some level of feature parity with in order to seamlessly transition them off of their previous solution to our platform. And it did take a significant upfront investment with product in order to get to be able to pay the price of admission and to be able to actually compete in the market. CHAD: So one of the things I'm curious about is, do you have a sense of what does the overall market looks like? I feel like there are probably lots of salons, spas, haircutting places. There are a lot of them all over the world. MATT: There are, yeah. So we believe that there are about 500,000 self-care businesses in the United States. CHAD: Just in the United States. MATT: Yeah, just in the United States. And the employee base in the labor market is about two to two and a half million professionals across all those businesses. CHAD: So, where do you think the hurdles in terms of continued growth are for you? MATT: So one of the areas that we focus on is...so all of these self-care businesses are about 90% similar in how they operate. And so we started in the hair salon vertical and then have expanded into many adjacent verticals over the course of the past few years. We really tried to make sure that we had really, really strong product-market fit in the hair salons, which is the biggest self-care market, and before we expanded into, say, nail salons. When expanding into adjacent verticals, there's some functionality that is unique to those verticals. And so, for example, one of our recent verticals that we expanded into is med spas. And the way that med spas charge for their services is generally based on the products that are used, and so if you buy 100 units of Botox, they charge a per-unit fee. And so that was something that was pretty unique to the medspa market that doesn't exist in other self-care markets. And so vertical expansion is a vector of growth for us and then segment expansion. So we started with the single location, very small businesses. And then we have worked our way up to enterprise where we're powering chains and franchises of hundreds of locations. And then the other aspects kind of the third vector of growth is the different product sets and functionality that we are releasing to our customers. So continuing to develop the platform but also look at different opportunities where we can provide outsized value by developing it ourselves. CHAD: So we could literally talk all day, and I could talk to you about scaling and product and everything. But one thing I'm interested in before we wrap up is I think it's really special to found a company with a designer, a product person, and an engineer. And I can tell even just by looking at the site and the product that you very highly value design and creating a product that people love to use. MATT: Absolutely. CHAD: How does that lead you to creating Duo, which is a point of sale card reader? MATT: One of the things that we saw in the market was this real importance in service design so what information is showing when to the users of our technology. So there's that aspect of what's the overall experience? Then there's the product design; how easy is it to use? And how quickly can new employees, new front desk staff, how quickly can they get ramped up and start using the system? Do they need two weeks of training? And for us, we try to make it as intuitive and as familiar as possible. And then we look to see how else can we extend design? And one of the complaints that we always received from customers was that hardware options were always pretty ugly, that all of them look dated like the kind of hardware that you use at a supermarket. And they wanted something that was more sleek and that they weren't ashamed to have on their countertop for checkout. And so that's where we decided to invest in building our own hardware. And that was particularly exciting for us. So it's been really, really well-received from our customers. And it was a really fun project to work on. Getting into the hardware space is always challenging. But as a designer, it was super cool to build something that became physical for the first time in my life. CHAD: Does the logic that led to you creating Duo eventually lead you to creating an entire hardware point of sale system? MATT: We're assessing all opportunities. There's this interesting moment happening in the payments space where like Apple, you know, announced that I think they're piloting now that you won't need hardware in order to accept credit card payments on the iPhone. CHAD: You'll just be able to do it right against an iPad. MATT: Exactly. So I think there's a real question as to what is the...and I'm sure this is something that folks like Square are thinking about, that have really best in class hardware is like what does the future of hardware look for fintech companies? And is it just going to fold into the actual devices, or will you continue to need standalone readers? That's something that we're constantly thinking about and keeping smart on the latest developments in that. But our expertise and what we love is building incredible software. Hardware was that area that we saw that we could provide unique value, but our goal is to always be a software company. You generally don't make much money off of the hardware piece in this business. CHAD: Now, how personally involved were you in the hardware project? MATT: I was very involved, potentially too involved. [laughs] CHAD: As a founder, when new projects come up like this that maybe you're interested in, how do you either hold yourself back or not hold yourself back from being involved in them? MATT: I think when the company is venturing into new territory, entirely new like uncharted waters, that's when it's valuable for me or any founder to get really, really smart on what's the opportunity, what's the risks, all that kind of stuff. In this case, my experience working at our initial customers for the first couple of years of our business was really, really impactful. And so our Duo captures...and the reason why it's called Duo is because it's a countertop, but also you can take the top off, and you can do an in chair checkout. So you could bring it over to the customer, and they can check out right while they're in the chair as an express checkout. And so those types of things I learned while being on location working at these businesses. And so I was providing a lot of the guidance and conceptualizing how we could think about what the hardware offering would be that would be unique to us, and collaborated with our head of design and then an industrial designer to get the proof of concept there. CHAD: And you said, "Potentially too involved," so why did you say that? [laughs] MATT: I think as a founder, you are always trying to figure out what altitude are you flying at. And there are some things that you will need to dive in and be very hands-on. And then there are other times just to guide and support and coach. And I think for this because it was a new project, I was particularly excited to be able to get into hardware because that was a first for me that I was involved in all aspects of it. But it was a lot of fun. CHAD: Awesome. Well, Matt, thank you so much for stopping by and sharing with us. I really appreciate it. I'm sure the listeners do too. If folks want to find out more about Boulevard, about joining the team, about becoming a customer, or just to get in touch with you, where are all the different places that they can do that? MATT: Yeah, absolutely. I think the best place is just on our website. We are hiring across all levels and all functions, especially on the product design and engineering side. And so our website is joinblvd.com, J-O-I-N-B-L-V-D.com. There's the about page, and it links out to my LinkedIn. So if anyone wants to connect and get acquainted, that's probably the easiest way to do it. CHAD: Awesome. Well, thanks again for joining me. I really appreciate it. MATT: Yeah, thanks so much. This was a pleasure. CHAD: You can subscribe to the show and find notes along with links for everything that Matt just mentioned and including a complete transcript of the episode at giantrobots.fm. If you have questions or comments, email us at hosts@giantrobots.fm. And you can find me on Twitter at @cpytel. This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot and produced and edited by Mandy Moore. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time. ANNOUNCER: This podcast was brought to you by thoughtbot. thoughtbot is your expert design and development partner. Let's make your product and team a success. Special Guest: Matt Danna.

Instagram rolling out a "Following" tab for Reels in India (Twitter) @shop Turns 3 With a Pop-up Boutique in NYC (Instagram Blog) The Instagram Stories is sponsored by Hashtag Slayer! Register at HashtagSlayer.com and use code IGStories for a free month. Want to support the show? Buy Me a Coffee Leave a Review: Apple Podcasts --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/danielhillmedia/message

This interview features Sarah Penna, Senior Manager of Creator Launch at Patreon. We discuss how a trip to India inspired her media career, being one of the youngest YouTube MCN founders,  her $15 million exit to DreamWorks Animation, how she picks co-founders,  marrying a YouTuber-turned Hollywood filmmaker, founding a female-forward entertainment brand, and what's up next for Patreon. Subscribe to our newsletter. We explore the intersection of media, technology, and commerce: sign-up linkLearn more about our market research and executive advisory: RockWater websiteFollow The Come Up on Twitter: @TCUpodEmail us: tcupod@wearerockwater.com---EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: Chris Erwin:Hi, I'm Chris Erwin. Welcome to The Come Up, a podcast that interviews entrepreneurs and leaders. Sarah Penna:We had outgrown the office. We were in the National Lampoon office. It was so janky and eventually we moved the talent team to my dining room table. I would cook dinner for the talent team. We would take talent meetings in my living room, which was just so bizarre and unprofessional but worked. My house was kind of a YouTuber hotel. It was very wholesome and very duct tape and bubble gum feeling. We were just kind of figuring it out. Chris Erwin:This week's episode features Sarah Penna, senior manager of Creator Launch at Patreon. So, Sarah was born in Salt Lake City, Utah. Her father was a serial entrepreneur and her mother ran the family construction business. Sarah's first foray into media began while studying abroad in India, when she became the translator for a documentary film crew. So after college, she moved to California and immersed herself in LA's up-and-coming digital media scene, which included working with OG YouTuber Phil DeFranco. Sarah rapidly became a digital expert and started her own digital talent management company in 2010, which eventually became Big Frame and was sold to AwesomenessTV and its parent, DreamWorks Animation. Chris Erwin:Today, Sarah runs a team that helps Patreon develop and launch premium talent partnerships, and also advises Frolic Media, a female-forward entertainment brand she co-founded in 2018. Some highlights of our chat include how we first met during an awkward interview moment with a guitar, when having 10,000 subs made you a Top 100 YouTuber, how she picks co-founders, what it's like to marry a YouTuber turned Hollywood filmmaker, and what's up next for Patreon. Now, I've known Sarah for nearly 10 years. She was actually my gateway drug into all things digital entertainment and where it not for her founding Big Frame, I would not be where I am today, and I am forever grateful to her, which makes me super pumped to share her story. All right, let's get to it. Sarah, thank you for being on The Come Up podcast. Sarah Penna:Thanks for having me. Chris Erwin:We got a little bit of history here. So, we'll see how much of that we can get through in 90 minutes before your next thing. Sarah Penna:Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot to pack in. Chris Erwin:As always, let's rewind a bit and let's talk about where you grew up. So, my understanding is that you grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah. Your family had some land in Wyoming. I think your dad was a bit of an entrepreneur, but tell us about your upbringing. Sarah Penna:Yeah. I had a pretty cool childhood. I grew up in Utah. My parents were total hippies, just big personalities, did not grow up in the predominant faith of Utah. So, it was a little bit of an outlier, and my parents own a construction company together. So, a little bit of foreshadowing into how I worked with my husband at one point, but I grew up with an older sister and a younger brother. We had a menagerie of animals all the time, like goats, and my dad kept bees at one point. We always had two or three dogs and a bunch of cats and an iguana and chinchillas. We just had this kind of crazy Bohemian, bizarre, Jewish, hippie not Mormon family. Sarah Penna:So, my parents owned this construction company and became relatively successful with that but my dad has curse, as I do, which is, always coming up with new ideas and deciding to act upon them. He had a Japanese restaurant and he had a furniture company and he had an emergency preparedness kit company, and I- Chris Erwin:Would he do all of these at the same time as the construction business or would it be like stops and starts and all of that? Sarah Penna:No. My mom held it down. She really was the mastermind behind the construction company. She did all of the office work and made sure ... she really ran the company and then my dad was kind of the face of it. He was out at the job sites and in the early days, was actually doing the building. So, I got to see my mom be in this, talk about a male-dominated industry. She would come home so mad because she would get a piece of mail that ... her name's Paula and they would always address Paul, because they couldn't believe that a woman was running a construction company. So, I got to see this powerful woman running this super successful business in basically a hundred percent male-dominated industry. Chris Erwin:Sarah, I've known you for over 10 years and we worked together intimately for at least three or four of them. I had no idea about your background. I just learned more about you in two minutes. It took a podcast and a 10-year relationship to get here. Sarah Penna:That's totally my bad. Chris Erwin:All good. So, okay. As a kid, when your father dabbled in all these new business adventures, was that really exciting for you guys? Maybe frustrating for your mother, but as kids you're like, "Oh, dad's up to some cool stuff again." Sarah Penna:Yeah, it was fun. I was 15 when he did the Japanese restaurant and I got to work in the restaurant and just, it was cool, and I didn't realize the stress and the financial burden that it was putting on my mom and kind of how frustrating it was for her but I see that now, looking back, and she handled it amazingly. She's an incredible woman. But I'm a very early riser, and as a kid, I would ... my dad is, too. He would get up at four or five in the morning and I would, too. He would just load me up in his construction truck and we'd go get pancakes and go milk the goats and go check on his construction sites. So, I got to see the inner workings of that. Then, I love going to the office and rifling through my mom's office supplies. Chris Erwin:Well, I got some important Post-it notes here, got a yellow legal pad, all the things. Sarah Penna:It was so fun as a kid. You're like, pens and Post-it notes, and the office supply closet was just like this heaven. Chris Erwin:My dad, he ran a psychology business and still does for 40 years and had his own office, and then every year he hosted a conference. One of my favorite things is that he would hire his children, me and my twin brother, and we'd have to lick 500 envelopes and put stamps on them. But we got to use all of these office gear, we thought it was the coolest thing ever. Then, after a few years, we're like, "I think we're getting sick from all of this stamp-licking." Sarah Penna:Yeah, probably. Chris Erwin:But separate story. Sarah Penna:That's really funny. Chris Erwin:So, a question, watching your father's entrepreneurial endeavors and also your mother, too, running the business, did you feel like, "Hey, when I grew up, I'm going to have my own business too." Sarah Penna:Honestly, no. So, I was an incredibly shy child. I was very quiet. My family likes to joke that they thought I was just going to buy a cabin in the woods and just frolic in daisy fields and that would basically be all I could handle. So, to the shock of everybody, of what I wound up doing with my career, so no, I was very directionless. I went to a very intense high school that was a college prep school. There was a lot of pressure to kind of figure out what you wanted to do. Frankly, I just didn't have any passions. I wasn't thinking, "Oh, I want to take over the family business or I want to be an entrepreneur." I didn't even have that language. Sarah Penna:So, in a way, that was great because what I wound up doing didn't exist when I was little. If I had said, "Oh, I want to be a lawyer or an actress or what ... " something that did exist, I don't know that I would've found the path that I did find. My parents never called themselves entrepreneurs. They were just, this is what we do and this is how we do it. Chris Erwin:Very interesting, Sarah. So, I'm going to put the puzzle pieces together here. Let's talk about another formative event growing up. You had also mentioned that you studied abroad in India, where you actually learned to speak fluent Nepalese. So, tell us about this transformative moment for you. Sarah Penna:Like I said, I was a very shy child. In college, I kind of blossomed, but maybe in the wrong ways. I partied a lot and just, again, was quite directionless. I was a literature major, which is just like the lazy ... No, I love being a literature major, but it is a non-major. It doesn't really set you up for business success. Originally, actually, I was going to travel. I was going to study abroad in Italy and I had this moment where I just looked at myself and said, "You need to push yourself right now. This is a moment." My college had an incredible study abroad program in Nepal. Sarah Penna:Long story short, they couldn't do it in Nepal. There were some civil unrest, so they moved it to India. I went to India and I lived in a place that didn't have running water, and I did my laundry for six months in a river. I got perspective that I never would've had. During that time I met up with a documentary film, I will say, crew in quotes, because it was just two white dudes traveling around not knowing what they were doing. They were in this tiny little village that I was staying. I was living in a monastery and because I spoke the language I could just hang out with the locals. It was very funny to them that this tiny, little white girl spoke fluent Nepalese. Chris Erwin:Did you take Nepalese in advance of going to India at all? Sarah Penna:No. Chris Erwin:So, you just picked it up in country. Sarah Penna:Yeah. Chris Erwin:Wow. Sarah Penna:Writing is very hard, but the language itself is very intuitive once you fit the pieces together. So, I would help them. Tourists would come. I lived in this monastery for a couple of weeks. Tourists would come and I would help them translate and negotiate and all this stuff. So, these guys came, they were filming. I was like, "I'll join up with you guys and translate for you and help you get interviews and that kind of stuff." Because if you speak the language, it just opens more doors. So, I wound up traveling with them, and one of them I wound up dating, but that's for another story. He was going to UCLA. I was graduating. He was going to UCLA grad school. Sarah Penna:I was graduating college and I wound up learning about documentary film and originally thought I wanted to go into documentary filmmaking. So, 2006 is when I was in India. Chris Erwin:Got it. Did you have an interest in media and the arts before you met this documentary film crew/attractive young man that you wanted to date? Sarah Penna:No, and I didn't have any connections and I didn't have any ... but, again, I was kind of, not in a disparaging way, but I was kind of an empty vessel, right? I had no idea what I was going to do and this thing really sparked me. I loved holding the camera. I loved seeing the story come together. I moved to Venice with him, and this is way too long of a story, so I'll just make it really short through a series of very wonderful coincidences, which involved me randomly picking a documentary film at the LA Film Festival and contacting the filmmaker. I got an internship at World of Wonder and that kind of started my trajectory in media. Chris Erwin:This was the first time you dated a documentary filmmaker. I look at this as a warm up for Joe. We'll get into that later. Sarah Penna:I only dated creative people, [inaudible 00:11:39]. Chris Erwin:Another podcast for your wild party days at Pitzer College. All right, so that led to your first work experience at World of Wonder. So, tell us about what that company was doing and what your role was there. Sarah Penna:World of Wonder in 2008 was probably the most amazing place to work, I have to say. It was constantly drag queens coming in the office, and parties. It was just a wild time. They were filming the first season of Million Dollar Listing, which I was an intern on. They were filming the first season of Tori and Dean: Inn Love, the Tori Spelling Show, which I was an assistant on. They were filming Porno Valley. They were filming ... I mean, it was just like a wild, wild time, incredible company. I loved it. I also recognized that reality TV wasn't really for me. While I was working there, I also was making short films and uploading them to these two new websites. One of them was called YouTube and one of them was called Current TV. Sarah Penna:Current TV was Al Gore's network based in San Francisco, where you would upload short documentaries and then the ones that got the most votes, they would ultimately put them onto their TV network. So, I had a couple documentaries get bought and put onto the TV network and ... Chris Erwin:Were you doing this independently or as part of World of Wonder? Sarah Penna:No, no, totally separately. Chris Erwin:Got it. Again, I had no idea that you did this. Sarah Penna:Yeah. Now, we're in 2007, the first documentary that got picked up was about me getting my medical marijuana license. Chris Erwin:Okay. Sarah Penna:It was a very new thing at that time, and so I documented the whole journey of what it was like to get a medical marijuana license and I smoked a joint on-screen. When I got hired there, it would play in the rotation, and one time Al Gore came to visit the office and they had the TVs up in the office playing Current, and my documentary came on with me smoking a joint and meeting Al Gore at the same time. It was very embarrassing. Chris Erwin:I'm famous/I'm super embarrassed. What a mix of emotions. Sarah Penna:Yes. Chris Erwin:So, Sarah, I have to ask, you're working at World of Wonder, you're working on these incredible programs that are probably being sold to network TV, right? Not digital outlets and streamers. What was the catalyst that you're like, "I want to put my content on YouTube and Current TV." How'd that come to be? Sarah Penna:I just felt something more compelling about it. It felt more free. It felt like, somebody like me coming from Utah with literally zero connections could make something and have it be put on TV within a couple of weeks. Then, on YouTube, you couldn't monetize at the time. It was very rudimentary. I don't know, I just fell in love with it. Chris Erwin:YouTube was founded in 2004 and then, was it bought by Google in 2006, if I remember correctly? Sarah Penna:I think that's right. Then, 2007 Time magazine made you, the cover and the Person of the Year was you, and it was a mirror. I was like, that to me was a moment where I said, "Okay, this is really a thing and I want to be involved in it." Chris Erwin:I think you start meeting some pretty important early personalities and movers and shakers within digital video. I think you met one of the founders of what eventually became Maker Studios, I think. Was it Danny Diamond or Danny Zappin? Is that the same person? Sarah Penna:That's the same person. His YouTube name was Danny Diamond. Chris Erwin:Got it. So, how'd you meet Danny? Sarah Penna:So, I was working at this very small web series production company which, yes, that was a thing in 2008. So, I got laid off right from Current because the financial crisis hit. They laid everyone off. They sold the network to Al Jazeera. I moved back to LA. I had been up in San Francisco, moved back to LA, started working at this web series production company, got introduced to Danny through some mutual friends. He said, "Look, I just got some money from YouTube and I'm filming this thing for this new channel that we're starting called The Station. Why don't you just come up and see what it's like?" So, I go up there and unbeknownst to me, it was every big YouTuber at the time. It was ShayCarl, and KassemG, and Shane Dawson, and Danny, and Lisa Nova, and everybody- Chris Erwin:OG names. Sarah Penna:Funnily enough, my future husband was supposed to be there, but I don't remember exactly what happened, but he wasn't there. Chris Erwin:Okay. So, you're doing this. Are you thinking to yourself, "Oh my God, I'm having so much fun. This is a crazy world." You're embarking on a very exciting career adventure. You're seeing this change in the media industry. Did you feel that at the time or was it more of, "This is fun. I'm meeting some cool people. Let's see where it goes." Sarah Penna:It was more the former. I really thought to myself, I want to be involved in this in some way, shape or form. I really don't know what this is. Chris Erwin:Yeah. Sarah Penna:Not to say that I'm a genius, but I just had something in my gut that said, you've got to be involved in this somehow. You have to make this happen. Chris Erwin:That instinct proved to be pretty powerful for you in starting Big Frame, which we'll get to in a little bit. So, you meet Phil DeFranco, a prominent OG YouTuber, and I think you become a producer for him and his team, right? Sarah Penna:Yeah. So, he hires me in November of 2009 and I worked for him. We launched a new channel, which was like a gaming channel for him. I did PR for him. I handled brand deals for him. I edited because I still knew how to edit at the time. A skill I'm very sad that I lost. That was just an amazing experience. He had split from Maker TV at that time and so, we were kind of running our own thing. I think Phil, to this day, is one of the most brilliant, genius content creators that's come out of the YouTube space. He's just continually reinvented himself and not, just kept doing what he did and stayed successful. So, that was a masterclass in how to run a successful YouTube channel. Chris Erwin:Got it. Also, through Phil DeFranco, you actually end up meeting your future husband, Joe. So, he actually showed up on time for production or maybe a first day that you guys had. How'd you first connect with him? Sarah Penna:Before Phil hired me, I got invited to a Halloween party at his house and Joe was there, and I had actually very embarrassingly seen Joe's videos before meeting him. I was producing a short film with a prominent YouTuber at that time named Olga Kay and we were just doing some fun. We actually crowdfunded it. We raised a couple thousand dollars and made this thing called Olga Kay's Circus. We wanted Joe in it because he had a lot of subscribers at the time. He had 10,000 subscribers, so he was in the Top 100 YouTubers. Chris Erwin:Oh, my God. Sarah Penna:Can you believe that 10,000 subscribers would get you there at that time? So, we wanted Joe in it and we wound up meeting at this Halloween party and then Phil connected us and match made us a little bit, and we went on our first date in January of 2010. Chris Erwin:Then, how soon were you married or engaged after that? Sarah Penna:So, we went on our first date in January 2010 and then we got engaged in September of the same year, and then we were married the next year. Chris Erwin:First date with Joe, January 2010. Engaged, September 2010. Married, 2011. Interesting timing because you launched your first company, Cloud Media, I think in 2010, and you're sharing production space with Joe. So, you're tripling down on the digital media space. You're literally married to a creator. You're sharing space together and you're founding your own media company. But tell us about what was the origins of Cloud Media. Sarah Penna:Yeah, so I basically, again, I didn't say, "Oh, I'm going to be an entrepreneur. I'm going to raise money." I didn't have a blueprint for that. I didn't know what I was doing, which I think you'll hear a lot of entrepreneurs say, that's kind of a blessing in a lot of ways. So, I did a very big brand deal for Joe. I was able to negotiate a high six-figure deal for him, and using the percentage that I took as his manager from that, I started what I called the Cloud Media. I bootstrapped that company for a year and a half and just operated it based off of the percentages that I was taking from brand deals that I was doing for influencers and YouTubers, whatever we called them at the time. Sarah Penna:My difference was I would start out by not doing contracts with them. We would just have a understanding, which is very common with management companies. Most managers don't have contracts, right? That's more for agents and Maker and Fullscreen at the time were insisting on contract, and Machinima. I was like, "Hey, you don't have to sign a contract with me. Let me just show you what I can do. This is my fee, and if you like it, then you can officially sign onboard and we can go from there." So, that worked really well for me. So, I started signing. I think by the time that we re-founded the company as Big Frame, I had about 30 clients. Chris Erwin:I remember, that was one of the things that attracted me to Big Frame. This is definitely the reputation in the space, is that you had built, Sarah, one of the most premium networks of YouTube creators that existed. Really high quality YouTubers that worked together, that worked with you, and there was really good camaraderie and trust and rapport amongst everybody, and it felt very special and different. So, it's clear that was based on these initial values of, I'm going to do good work and prove myself to you, and that's how we're going to develop a business relationship. Until I came in and then I was like, "Sarah, we need contracts." Sarah Penna:A big influence on those ... those are, me as a person, my core values. But DeStorm, who was my second client outside of Joe, who I just cold called and was living in New York, he really sort of guided me in how he wanted to be treated, how he felt business should be done. He really helped collaborate with me on some of those foundational core values that we carried throughout the duration of Big Frame really. Chris Erwin:So, speaking of that, you're literally learning from one of your clients. Were there any other mentors in the space as you're figuring ... this is the early days. We still say we're in the Wild West of the creator economy, that was the real Wild West of YouTube. So, probably, very few people to learn from. Did you have anyone that you would call on a regular basis and say, "Hey, let's just share notes." Sarah Penna:No, I didn't. Unfortunately, I think the space became quickly competitive. I would say at the beginning there was a little more collaboration between, let's say, like Danny and George Strompolos and myself. We would go up to YouTube and talk to them together as a group and what our needs were and share creator feedback. I think once money started pouring into the space we got a little more siloed, which is understandable, but no, I didn't. I was really out there in the woods like, "Okay, this is what we're doing now." Not really knowing what that was. Just saying, "Okay, this is how we're doing it. This is how our contracts are going to look." Chris Erwin:How old were you at this point? Sarah Penna:I was 26. Chris Erwin:So young. So, then, I think, well, as part of that dynamic, as the space got more competitive, George is launching Fullscreen, Danny is launching Maker, more venture capitals moving to the space. The Google Original Channels program launches, $200 million dedicated fund to help creators produce higher quality content for YouTube, which will then attract more advertisers and more revenue. So, I think at this point is when you eventually connect with Steve Raymond, the co-founder of Big Frame, which got its origins from Cloud Media, right? Sarah Penna:Exactly, through a mutual friend. I was on the hunt for a CEO. I recognized my limitations. I did want to raise money. I didn't know what that entailed. Frankly, I needed more of a grownup. I think my skillsets were really great on the creator side and the brand deal side but as the industry started growing up, I very quickly recognized I need someone who has a skillset that I just don't have. So, I met Steve and we hit it off, and we had a couple meetings, and he just jumped right on in. We decided to re-found the company. None of us liked the name because people thought it was like cloud computing and, which is fair, and it just made sense to start fresh. It also gave us an opportunity to have contracts with people and just structure it in a way that would allow us to raise money. So, yeah. Chris Erwin:Hey, listeners, this is Chris Erwin, your host of The Come Up. I have a quick ask for you. If you dig what we're putting down, if you like the show, if you like our guests, it would really mean a lot if you can give us a rating wherever you listen to our show. It helps other people discover our work and it also really supports what we do here. All right, that's it, everybody. Let's get back to the interview. I have to ask, I started the advisory firm five years ago that I have now. I started that with a co-founder and then quickly realized, "Hey, I have a certain vision and I'm going to build this in my unique way." So, restarted the advisory firm with me as the solo owner. Chris Erwin:I've realized bringing someone else into the mix that really gets the vision that I feel comfortable sharing this with is difficult for me. I just know my personality, and founder issues are always like the hardest things in any startup. How did you feel in terms of bringing Steve on? Did you feel comfortable? When you met him, you're like, "Hey, this guy gets it. We have shared values and sensibility." Were you able to develop a sense of trust with him pretty quickly or did that take a decent amount of time? Sarah Penna:I trusted him very quickly. Although, I sometimes felt like that scene in The Little Mermaid where she's like, closes her eyes and signs her voice away, I was like, "Am I doing that?" I definitely had that moment where I was like, "Am I letting somebody in I don't ... ?" We had three meetings before. I was like, "Here's a third of my company." We had another co-founder, that's it. We don't need to [inaudible 00:25:56] but basically, here's half of my company. I definitely had people who were like, "Don't think you should have done that." But to me, the value of Steve and the ability ... I did trust him. The main thing for him was, he was very clear that he didn't want to disrupt what I was doing. He was very impressed with the business that I had built on my own and he didn't want me to feel like he was coming in to change that. Sarah Penna:He invested some of his own money and valued the contracts that ... I was like, I don't have that money to invest, but he was like, we should value the money that's in the bank for Cloud Media and the value of the contracts or the agreements that you have with the talent. So, I was like, "Okay, that's really fair." He made it easy. That, for me, was important. I don't like complicated things. I don't like long dragged out negotiations, and I was ready to just get to work. So, he was someone who was like, "I know how to do this. I have the connections. I don't want to disrupt your work." He's a good guy, I could just tell, and we made it work. Chris Erwin:I love that. I know Steve very well. He was my boss for three or four years and learned an incredible amount from him. But I think you're right, Sarah, the thing that stands out about Steve was just a good guy, good moral compass, and he doesn't let great get in the way of good enough. He'll just say, "This is good. This is thoughtful. We've talked this through. Let's move forward." But like you said, he's very fair in how he wanted to value the company. I didn't know that, but it's totally on brand for him. So, curious, I joined in the summer of 2012, I was ... Sarah Penna:Oh, boy, what a summer that was. Chris Erwin:So, I went to business school after being a Wall Street banker for a few years. Then, I was in school in Chicago and I worked while I was there for Pritzker Capital, which was an early investor in the YouTube MCN ecosystem. They had invested in Big Frame. They invested in Awesomeness. We eventually joined forces, and that is how I met Steve first. I was talking to Rishi, Rishi or Matt McCall and they're like, "Yeah, when you fly out to LA for these meetings, we invested in this company called Big Frame. You should check them out." I was like, "I don't even understand this company's business model, but digital video that feels like the future. I'll take a meeting." Chris Erwin:I remember meeting Steve and we had lunch on the Promenade, and then I came in for my first interview. I walked into the office, this is on Sunset Boulevard in the old National Lampoon building. I walked in and I walked into a ... it feels like we were just working out of someone's semi-living/work space. I was like, is this a company? Is this like what West Coast work is like? Because I had grown up working on the East Coast. I walked into the back room and in the back room there's this little circular table. Steve's there. Grant Gibson's there. Jason [Szymanski 00:28:39] is there. Then, you're at your back desk. Chris Erwin:So, you're supposed to be part of this interview, your head's down on your computer. They're like, "Oh, that's Sarah over there." I looked over and I'm like, "Oh, I guess this is what founders do in digital media. They're just heads down in their computers. Maybe I'll eventually talk to her over time." That was my first introduction to Big Frame. So, I just say all of this as I was like, this is like a precursor to just wildness that ensued thereafter. We had just gotten the Google Original Channels funding, raised some venture funding on top of that, and then it was like, build these five different content verticals. I'm curious to hear from you, there are so many memories from back in the day, but as you think about some of the war stories from the trenches, what are some things that stand out? Sarah Penna:Oh, my God. Well, your interview definitely. Also, you failed to mention that we had two absolutely crazy wiener dogs running around the office as well. Yeah. I think we had outgrown the office. We were in the National Lampoon office. It was so janky and we ... eventually, we're on three different floors. We moved sales to an office down Sunset. We were sandwiched between a strip club and a Trader Joe's. Then, Joe and I were renting a house off of Sunset, like walking distance, and eventually, we moved the talent team to my dining room table. Joe at that time was putting two YouTube videos a week out on his MysteryGuitarMan channel, and he would stay up all night and then he would sleep until 2:00 PM and he'd come downstairs. Sarah Penna:It was like, Lisa, Byron, Megan, Rachel were at our dining room table, and Joe was rolling out of bed as one of our talent but also my husband. I would cook dinner for the talent team at my house. We would take talent meetings in my living room, which was just so bizarre and unprofessional, but worked. We would also throw these wild game nights, board game nights, so Settlers of Catan was very popular at that time. We would have 40 YouTubers in our house playing Settlers of Catan with multiple games going on. My house was like a YouTuber hotel. We had a guest bedroom. Jenna Marbles came and stayed. Lena came and stayed with us. DeStorm. It was very wholesome and very duct tape and bubble gum feeling. We were just kind of figuring it out. Chris Erwin:I remember that. I remember Steve explaining, "Oh, we're having a reorg." The reorg was like, "Okay, we're moving the talent team to Sarah's house across the street." Then, production goes upstairs into a semi-new office that we got. For us, at that size, that was like a big deal. Sarah Penna:It was. Yeah. Oh, man, when we moved to our Lindblade offices, was that like heaven on earth to have an actual office, but that was later. Another funny memory I had was when Max first started. He had come from a place where he was doing really, really big deals. I handed him off a brand deal opportunity for $1,500 and he went in the bathroom, which by the way was right next to everybody's desk and splashed cold water on his face. We had moved him from New York to LA and he was just like, "What am I doing?" Ultimately, Max, obviously, was an absolute rockstar and built out that sales team to just be very profitable and doing really well. Sarah Penna:But that first deal was $1,500, and that was just par for the course at that time. It was shocking to people coming from the outside and then once it clicked, it really clicked and you're like, "Okay, I get what we're doing here." But there was just a lot of duct tape and bubble gum. Chris Erwin:I think Max is going to be an interview on this podcast coming up. I have interviewed Dan Levitt. When I think of Dan, we talk about when I first interviewed him and I think he showed up in some shiny suit and Jason Szymanski in the back office is pointing. He's like, "Chris, we're launching a music vertical and we have a new interview candidate coming in." I would just look out the window and I would be like, "These characters." I was like, "I've never worked with any characters like this before." I come from Wall Street, so it's was like everyone's in a suit and tie. I see people coming in shiny suits and I'm just like, "I think this is the new world I'm in. I'm just going to roll with it." Chris Erwin:So, it was such a rollercoaster of fun. So, then exciting things are happening and eventually, we move into this big new office, I think on Lindblade in Culver City. We're closer to Maker. We're closer to Fullscreen. Then, we run a process to sell the company. I'm just curious to hear from you, Sarah. Bringing Steve on was probably like, that was a big decision for you, but then hiring an investment bank that's going to run a sales process, we're going to have new ownership and potential leadership. What was it like for you to make that decision? Sarah Penna:That was really hard. I just wanted to keep the party going. Like many young entrepreneurs, I think I tied my identity completely to this company. And my husband was in the next office, he was a client. We went home, we would talk about brand deals over dinner. My entire identity was Big Frame. All of my friends were in some way, shape or form involved in this company. My family would tease me when I'd go home for Christmas. They're like, "Are all of your friends under contract?" I was like, "Yeah, kind of." Chris Erwin:Maybe a nice way to go through life. Sarah Penna:Yeah. I mean, we know where we stand with each other. No, but I just, I was so immersed that the idea of losing control was hard. I think I also felt my limitations as a founder and that's hard to come up against when you're kind of, I don't want to say that I was arrogant, but I was really confident and I felt really good about how I was running things and running the company. Then, we got to a point where my limitations and our limitations became evident and that's hard. It was hard and it was also exciting because it is, under most circumstances, it's a great thing. I also just had never been through anything like that, so I let a lot of anxiety get to me. Sarah Penna:I let it completely consume me. I'll be totally transparent. I would cry on the bathroom floor, like, what am I doing? There was a lot of doubt. I think that was probably the biggest strain on Steve and I's relationship, is how to go about this and how to present in the room. That was a big source of stress for us. Who's going to present? Is it me? I've been out there kind of the face of the company. I've been doing all the panels, and the VidCons, and the press, and the creator. Or is it Steve, who is the CEO who, frankly, should be doing it? Chris Erwin:That was unclear. We brought in an executive coach to help us figure that out. Sarah Penna:We did. Ultimately, like many of these things, it just came about through relationships and less about going and pitching, and the relationship that I had kind of built and cultivated, and changing landscape. There were a lot of factors, but that was very stressful. Then, in New Year's Eve of 2013, while we were in the middle of this process, I found out I was pregnant. Chris Erwin:Just to pile it on. Sarah Penna:Just for fun. Thought that would be a great thing to add on to the plate at the time. It's so funny because I think back a lot to the moment where I told Steve that I was pregnant, I was hysterical. I couldn't even tell him. I was crying so hard. He was like, in a very nice way, "I don't understand why you're so upset. This is a good thing." I was like, "What?" I thought he was going to be so mad and that this was going to ruin everything. I tell that story only to say, I think that our culture makes young women feel like ... and I had a lot of people tell me, then opened up to me over the years, that they felt like they can't have kids because of ... that moment of, "Oh, my gosh, I have to now disclose this thing." Sarah Penna:Even if it's illegal to not move forward with something because someone's pregnant, you can still find other ways. So, I thought I had completely ruined everything and that was ... I'm very sad about that looking back, but Steve really was like, "This is awesome. I'm so happy for you. Don't even think about it. Nobody's going to bat an eye." That was true. I wound up giving a keynote at VidCon eight months pregnant and we sold the company, but that was very stressful. Also, I couldn't drink. It was a lot. We were celebrating and I was like, "You know what? I'm having a glass of champagne because I'm ... You all have been drinking through this very stressful process and I haven't." Chris Erwin:More like being pregnant was also a launching pad for you to launch the mom's vertical at Awesomeness- Sarah Penna:Yes. Chris Erwin:... which came thereafter but, yeah, just to add some context on some of the notes here. I remember in the MCN days, there was the early Awesomeness launch in 2011 and then it was sold to DreamWorks, I think, in 2012, and everyone got really excited. But then, the YouTube MCN winter hit and there was a lack of capital flowing into the space. People were saying like, "Are these businesses real? Are they viable? Are they just going to get consolidated into traditional media?" It was harder to raise capital, and there was a lot of doubt in the ecosystem. Then, in 2013, I think in the second half of the year, Disney bought Maker for $500 million. Then, we made a decision, we're like, "There's a moment in time here, let's hire an investment banker." Shout out to Brian Stengel. Sarah Penna:Yay, Brian. Chris Erwin:We kicked off a process in the second half of 2013 and sold in April of 2014 to AwesomenessTV. Look, I was very intimately involved in that process with you and Steve. I saw how hard it was on you guys. You guys were just carrying an incredible burden. I think something, too, like a theme of your career, Sarah, where you have this passion for overlooked communities. I think you getting into the digital fears, there's a way to service these new creator voices in an exciting way with new business models and new distribution models. I bet there was some fear of ... A lot of this business was your friends and your friends actually had equity in the company. Chris Erwin:You had given equity out to a lot of creators when you launched Cloud Media and Big Frame. What if all that was going to change with this new ownership? I think that was probably a moment that you were concerned about. I don't know if we'll ever make all these details public, but the sales process, I just remember like one week it would be super exciting. We're flying to New York for this big meeting with a traditional publisher. Conversations are going really well and then they completely flat lined and go nowhere. Then, the next week, it's like really exciting, but eventually got to a great result. Sarah Penna:At three in the morning, while we were all still at the Big Frame offices collapsed on the floor. Yes. Chris Erwin:We end up selling to AwesomenessTV. I think that was a very exciting experience for all of us. I think Awesomeness was, in a way, they were the Goldman Sachs of the YouTuber economy back then. They built an incredible team and network, and I think we all really learned a lot from Brian Robbins and Joe Davola. Just amazing creative visionaries. You also launched a mom's vertical while you're there with Snooki and JWoww, you do the corporate thing for, I think, two to three years then it's okay, what are you going to do next? I think that you start seeing another underserved community, which is the romance community, and you think about launching a company there. So, what's that quick story? Sarah Penna:While I was running the mom's vertical, which as you said, I think my big passion in life is finding underserved communities and overlooked communities and creating content around them. I felt at that time that the content that was out there for moms was just not great and it was a huge market. So, Brian had brought on a woman named Lisa Berger who comes from E! and has had a very long traditional media career. He brought her on to do the Go90 programming and the YouTube programming for the Awestruck, which is the mom's vertical. We hit it off and we have a great time together running this crazy thing, and we wind up optioning a romance novel and turning it into a series for Go90. Sarah Penna:Very, very, very long story short, we crashed Go90 because of how popular it was, despite everyone telling us it wasn't going to work. I'm a huge reader and I love romance. I was looking out at the landscape and saying, "You know what? I think romance is going to have a moment, like what Marvel did for geek culture, where now it's cool to be a geek." I think we're at this point, this is 2017. Trump is in office. Women are pissed off. We're sick of all of the stuff that we're like being disparaged. We're sick of all of the female characters in popular shows being killed off or assaulted or whatever. We just want happily ever afters. Everyone's disparaging this romance community as just sad cat ladies, single cat ladies eating bonbons. Sarah Penna:I was like, "We're going to go prove them wrong. Fuck this." Similar to the early days of YouTube, where I saw these influencers have a chip on their shoulder where, "Oh, you just think I am a single dude making videos in my mom's basement." There was a similar misconception about the romance novel fandom. The romance novel fandom is actually incredibly educated, diverse, not just in who they are, but where they live and their socioeconomic status. They're incredibly feminist and they know that it's fun and cheesy. They know that there's a wink and a nod. We set out to create a space to celebrate that, not make fun of it, not disparage it. Sarah Penna:It's a fascinating culture, a fascinating community. I was not part of it in the sense of participating in the fandom, but I've been a long time romance novel reader and I was in the closet about it because I was embarrassed. So, we banished the term guilty pleasure because we don't want anyone to feel guilty about reading romance. So, we set out and we created a digital platform and a newsletter, and then started optioning novels to turn into movies and TV shows. We got a first look deal with CBS. We have a deal with Audible and we have a deal with iHeartRadio. Our daily podcast is going to launch in February. So, really set out to just create a space where people who actually know and love romance are creating the content. Chris Erwin:I love that, Sarah. It's also very interesting, when you came to me and I was like, "Sarah, what are you thinking about? What's up next?" You told me about the romance community. I did a double take and I paused because I'm like, "Wait, this is such a huge community." I think in traditional media, think of all the rom-com movies, but nothing in digital. I'm like, "Yeah, this is totally overlooked. Why is no one else talking about this? This is huge." I think it's very interesting how you characterize it as ... yeah, often when I say, even to this day, "I'm going to watch a rom-com." I'm embarrassed as just an older male saying that, but why? Why do we say it's a guilty pleasure? Chris Erwin:Why is there any guilt about a really fun love story? When love is one of the number one drivers of happiness and a common theme that all of us talk about around the dinner table and with our friends. Sarah Penna:Why is being a horror fan, seeing people get murdered, why is that not looked down upon, but seeing people be happy is? Very interesting. Chris Erwin:Very interesting points about the romance community. So, you are at Patreon now. Are you still co-running Frolic? What is happening with Frolic Media? Sarah Penna:Yeah. So, Lisa has taken over and is helming Frolic. I continue to be a strategic advisor and obviously, care very deeply about the future of where that company goes, and cheerleading and championing them from the position that I am in now. Chris Erwin:I think it's a very exciting space. We interviewed Naomi Shah, the founder of Meet Cute on this podcast as well, which does these, call it like rom-com microcast. I started listening to those over the past six months and I absolutely love them. Bite-sized nuggets of just rom-com joy in audio form. So, I believe in it. Pay attention to RockWater's 2021 predictions about underserved communities because I think this could be ... potentially, we will publish this likely in the end of January. It could be a good cover note that you're sending to any potential investors or partners for you. Sarah Penna:Absolutely. Thank you. Chris Erwin:Believe in the thesis. Okay. So, before talking about Patreon, I just want to talk about another concurrent journey within your family in the media space, which is your husband, Joe. He's been a creator for over a decade. I think in the past few years, he was digital native on YouTube doing incredible stop motion biography, but always wanted to cross over. I think he's realized some incredible success recently. Why don't you tell us about that? Sarah Penna:Joe is just, I obviously am biased, but he has an incredible creative mind. He's good at everything he does, which is so annoying, but I love him for it. He is good at languages, and art, and music, and math, and all of that really combined and you can see that reflected in the fun, playful nature of MysteryGuitarMan. But like you said, ultimately, he really wanted to direct movies. When he first started down the journey, there was a trend of these influencer-helmed, one to two million dollar movies that would be VOD and make back their money. You'd put the how many subscribers that YouTuber had and how much we were going to sell it for, and set download on iTunes, and that was where his agency and his management team was kind of pushing him to. Sarah Penna:He said, "You know what? That's not really the path that I'm going to take," and wrote a movie called Arctic, which is a mostly silent movie helmed by a 50-something-year old Danish actor named Mads Mikkelsen. So, quite the opposite of an influencer-helmed comedy. Joe willed that movie into existence. There was every hurdle against him. He had to start from the bottom. His YouTube channel didn't help him because he wasn't doing an extension of MysteryGuitarMan. He didn't want to be in front of the camera and he did it, and that movie got into Cannes. We went to Cannes, and it premiered and got a 10-minute standing ovation. Chris Erwin:Whoa, I did not know that. A 10-minute standing ovation at Cannes? Sarah Penna:Yeah. Chris Erwin:Good for you guys. Sarah Penna:So, that was just ... walking that famous red carpet, and for me, it was wonderful because I ... He had finally gotten traditional management. I was no longer managing him. So, I actually got to go to Cannes just as his wife, as his plus one. I was not worrying about logistics and getting him to his interviews on time. I still was but I wasn't [crosstalk 00:47:45]. Chris Erwin:It takes a village to get Joe to an interview on time. Sarah Penna:Truly, especially in a foreign country. That's a whole other story. So, that was just a really incredible moment to see and he, off the heels of that, they announced at Cannes his next movie, which was called Stowaway, which had Anna Kendrick and Toni Collette, and Daniel Dae Kim, and Shamier Anderson in it. It premiered on Netflix last year. Now, he is working on so many new projects and so, hopefully we'll be shooting another one this year. He's loving it. He's very good at it. He has the personality to be a director. Very in control of his set, he's very calm, creative, collaborative and it's just very, very cool to see. You know what? He went through the grieving process of letting go of that YouTube channel and he's out on the other side and making things happen. Chris Erwin:That's awesome. I remember when we heard that news, there was a lot of text threads amongst the Big Frame community. I remember texting with Byron and with Max, and with Steve about, "Look, how awesome is this about Joe? Have you heard?" We know that he'd been working so hard and he was just such an incredible creator from day one. So, we're pumped for him and it feels like this is just the beginning for what he's going to do. Right? Sarah Penna:It really feels like he's on the trajectory, for sure. Chris Erwin:Yeah. So, look, you and Joe, as this media power couple continue to evolve. Speaking of the most recent step in your evolution, as we work to the final segment of this interview, Sarah, you guys moved to Santa Barbara, I think during the COVID pandemic. Then, you recently, someone that we've known mutually for a while, Avi Gandhi, you started talking to him at Patreon and saw an opportunity to join the creator team over there, which is your latest creator adventure. So, tell us about what excited you about moving to Santa Barbara and your new role at Patreon, and what you're doing over there. Sarah Penna:Yeah. So, I wanted to move to Santa Barbara for 10 years and it never was feasible or realistic, and I, like many people during the pandemic, had a very hard year. Living in LA just became very challenging. Jonah, my son, our son is, when the pandemic started was five, and now he's seven. We just felt if we were going to do it, it was now or never because he started having his best friends and it just becomes harder as they get older. So, we just pulled the ripcord and we did it with no plan, no idea if it was going to work out and it has been just an absolute dream come true. We love it up here and was fortunate enough to be able to join this incredible company, Patreon. Sarah Penna:I joined in November and like many things in my career, it just felt so right that I couldn't pass it up. A big driving factor was, obviously, it's very hard to leave my start-up and to leave Frolic. I did it in the best way I could, but for me, going to a place that really shares my values in that creator space, I started seeing the creator economy and the interest in it heating up in a way that I haven't seen in a long time. Similar to when I met Danny all those years ago, and I was like, "I need to be a part of this." I felt that the train was leaving the station without me and I wanted to get back into the creator space. Sarah Penna:I took a lot of time looking at what is the right company for me, for my values, and for what I want to do. Patreon is kind of a unicorn, a unicorn in the sense that it's valued at a unicorn status, but also a unicorn, for me, because it hit this very narrow target of what I was looking for. Chris Erwin:Just remind me, how long has Patreon been around for? Because I remember Patreon, early days of when I started Big Frame in 2012. Is that right? Sarah Penna:Yeah, eight years. Chris Erwin:So, now at Patreon, what team are you running there and what are you focused on for 2022? Sarah Penna:I live on the creator partnerships team and I run a team called Launch. We are responsible for giving creators white glove experience for launching their Patreon pages. We have teams that are going out and sourcing those creators. Once they come to us, they are pretty excited about the platform and we help them figure out what tiers are best for them, what banner image is going to look good, and really help them drive towards their launch date. These are creators that range in all kinds of sizes and all kinds of ... I'm talking to someone who makes leather, like leather wallets and leather goods, and we're talking to big YouTube creators and celebrities, and we're talking to everybody in between. Sarah Penna:It's just a really exciting time to be at a company like Patreon that's been in the creator space for so long, is helmed by a creator, and is going to continue to be a real player in the creator economy as it goes forward. Chris Erwin:It seems that there's incredible traction for your business where I think there was a recent announcement. The team is currently 400, but you're doubling the company to 800 people this year. Is that right? Sarah Penna:Yes, that's what they say. Chris Erwin:Well, look, I think the market tailwinds are definitely behind them. I think, yeah, it's a really exciting evolution. We've written about this extensively at RockWater. YouTube created these new business models for creators, where they can publish content online and then participate in ad revenue through YouTube's AdSense program. Then, the chance to distribute content to other social platforms and participate in ad revenue there and then doing talent deals, brand integrations, and getting paid off platform. Then now, I think there's this incredible movement with all these creators, the audiences that they bring, the fandoms that they generate, the engagement that they generate on these platforms, they're the real moneymakers. Chris Erwin:So, how do you give them more tools though, to also not only build these platform businesses, but their own businesses? So, Patreon doing that, allowing them to have direct relationships with their fans, get access to contact information, monetize in different ways behind a paywall, different types of subscription content, whether it's video or audio, whatever else. I think what you guys are doing is a beautiful thing. We need more companies thinking like you. So, I think that you guys are really well set up for success, and I'm excited, Sarah, for the different communities of creators that you guys can represent, that have a need, that don't have the tools from other platforms that are overlooked right now yet, again, going back to what you do best. Sarah Penna:Thank you. I absolutely agree with all of that. I have said for years, as some people, not many, but a lot of people in the creator space, you need to own your audience. Renting your audience is not sustainable. You need to build community. You need to not just be on a conveyor belt of content, You really need, as a creator in this space, the tools are there for you to build a sustainable business and to not be tied to the whims of platforms and algorithms. There's a big conversation about creator burnout. Patreon is positioned to help creators solve some of these big issues, big and, by the way, nuanced issues. It's not just, oh, these platforms are bad and we are good at all. Sarah Penna:These platforms are great and you need to build up audiences on your podcast and on your social. If you are able to have ... I'm a really big a fan of Seth Godin's 1,000 true fans idea. If you can build out 1,000 true fans who are on your Patreon, you might be covering your rent. You might be covering your rent plus plus, and you might be making a really good living. That's what we want. We want to empower creators and we're really set up to do that. It's just an exciting time to join the company. Chris Erwin:Before we wrap this up with the closing rapid fire round, Sarah, I just got to give you some big kudos here. You legitimately changed my life. I'm trying not to become emotional here. I look back on my past career over the past 10 years and everything that I've done, being able to found RockWater is a function of you, starting Cloud Media and Big Frame, and then taking a chance on me. I had a very different background than someone that you had ever typically hired before. I'm sure that you needed some convincing from the rest of your leadership team. Chris Erwin:But what I have learned with you, the pedigree that I've gained and the experience has not only been so personally transformational, all these new relationships that I've built, women that I've dated and just incredible friendships and all of the above, it's really set up an exciting career for me. Something that I wake up to, excited to do every day. I see a lot of incredible potential going forward. It's a function of you taking a chance on me and getting early into the digital video MCN days. So, I am very, very thankful. I think there's many people that have very similar sentiments to what I just shared. Chris Erwin:So, I'm probably speaking on behalf of many. So, big kudos to you, and particularly to call out, I don't come from a creative background. When I came in and was very systematic and operational, I wanted to scale the business, it took me a while. But seeing how you ran the creative team, how you nurtured the culture, when you brought in Rachel and Megan Corbett, and Lisa Filipelli, and Byron, and people that I spent a lot of time with and really learned an incredible amount from, it really all stems from you. So, Sarah, you have been an incredible person in my life. You did incredible things for all the talent at Big Frame. Chris Erwin:You are now doing the game again, with Frolic and with Patreon, and I wish you the best. As you know, anytime that you need anything, sometimes we don't talk for six months or a year, but when we do, we pick up very, very quickly. I am a massive supporter of everything that you do. So, call me whenever you have a need. Sarah Penna:Thank you. Now I'm crying. Thank you so much, Chris. That means a lot to me. Chris Erwin:Very well-deserved. Okay. So, now, let's move into closing rapid fire. Six questions. The rules are, you can answer in one sentence or in one to two words. Do you understand the rules? Sarah Penna:Yes. Chris Erwin:Okay. Here we go. Proudest life moment? Sarah Penna:Having my son Jonah. Chris Erwin:What do you want to do less of in 2022? Sarah Penna:Less complicated. Chris Erwin:What do you want to do more of? Sarah Penna:More space in my schedule. Chris Erwin:I like that. Advice for media execs going into 2022? Sarah Penna:Don't believe all of the hype and just keep your eye on the ball. Chris Erwin:Any future start-up ambitions, Miss Entrepreneur? Sarah Penna:God, I hope not. No, not as of right now. I am very happy not running a company right now. Chris Erwin:Not necessarily off the table. That's basically what you're saying. Sarah Penna:It's never off the table with me. Chris Erwin:Last one. This is an easy one. How can people get in contact with you? Sarah Penna:Sarah@patreon.com. Chris Erwin:Very easy. All right, Sarah, this was a true delight. Thanks for being on the podcast. Sarah Penna:Thank you so much, Chris. This was so much fun for me, too. Chris Erwin:Wow. That interview with Sarah just flew by. I felt like there were so many more things that we could have discussed. We'll have to do another podcast together. Yeah, I admit I got a little teary-eyed at the end there just going down memory lane with her. She was really formative in my career and, yeah, that really hit me at the end. I was not expecting that. All right. So, a few quick things. Our Livestream Commerce executive dinner is coming up. The date is now March 10th. We are 98% close to confirming that with our sponsor. But if you're interested in attending, shoot us a note. You can reach us at hello@wearerockwater.com. Chris Erwin:Also, we are hiring. We're looking for interns, undergrad and MBA level, and also a full-time analyst. We are growing all things creator economy and we need help. If you're interested, you can apply at jobs@wearerockwater.com. Lastly, we love to hear from our listeners. If you have any feedback on the show, any ideas for guests, just reach out to us. We're at tcupod@wearerockwater.com. All right, that's it, everybody. Thanks for listening. The Come Up is written and hosted by me, Chris Erwin, and is a production of Rockwater Industries. Chris Erwin:Please rate and review this show on Apple podcast and remember to subscribe wherever you listen to our show. If you really dig us, feel free to forward The Come Up to a friend. You can sign up for our company newsletter at wearerockwater.com/newsletter and you could follow us on Twitter @TCUpod. The Come Up is engineered by Daniel Tureck. Music is by Devon Bryant. Logo and branding is by Kevin Zazzali. Special thanks to Alex Zirin and Eric Kenigsberg from the RockWater team. 

This conversation explores the L.A. tech scene and venture investing featuring two of the industry's leading voices. Spencer Rascoff and Dana Settle discuss Pacaso and Greycroft while sharing their thoughts on L.A.'s evolving ecosystem. Dana Settle is a founding partner of Greycroft, where she heads the firm's West Coast office out of Los Angeles. Prior to joining Greycroft, Dana spent several years as a venture capitalist and advisor to startup companies in the Bay Area, including six years at Mayfield, where she focused on early stage companies in the mobile communications and consumer Internet markets. Dana currently manages Greycroft's investments in Anine Bing, AppAnnie, Avaline, Bird, Bumble, Citizen, Clique, Comparably, Goop, HamsaPay, Happiest Baby, Merit Beauty, Seed, Thrive Market, Versed, and WideOrbit. She also managed the firm's investments in The RealReal (IPO), Awesomeness TV (acquired by Dreamworks), Maker Studios (acquired by Disney), Pulse (acquired by LinkedIn), Trunk Club (acquired by Nordstrom), Sometrics (acquired by American Express), Viddy (acquired by Fullscreen), and Voicea (acquired by Cisco). Show notes and resources: Dana Settle bio on Greycroft Both sides of the table Diversity Ride for the Term Sheet  

Andor news, a new episode of What If...?, the best movie of all time, and more! Here's what happens: Cracker rap is broken. Malibu's Most Wanted is a masterpiece. Fake Boba Fett said stupid stuff. How are you digging What If...? so far? Is it something that you'll rewatch? Is John Boyega getting a Disney+ series? WE HAVE MERCH! You can get t-shirts and the like at TeePublic.com and Redbubble.com. Dig the show? Support our podcast on Patreon! Go to patreon.com/thebadmotivators to find out more. Thanks for being awesome. Eric has a Bandcamp page where you can get uncompressed stereo versions of some of the great podcast themes and bumpers you've come to know and love! I know, right?!? Check it out here! A big thank you Xurxo (@laseraw) for the killer artwork! Our friend Chris Hall (@chrishallartist) is the genius behind some of our best designs. Check his work out at Black Sheep Rebellion and buy some stuff. Help us out! Consider leaving us a 5-star review on iTunes! Robbo said you should. Follow us on Instagram: @badmotivators Follow us on Twitter! The Bad Motivators: @bad_motivators Eric Strothers: @ericstrothers Dallas Wood: @tarkintangents Check us out Twitch! Luker: @super_cruser Eric: @ericstrothers  

Just a few weeks ago, a Blackstone-backed media vehicle acquired Reese Witherspoon's Hello Sunshine for $900 million. Before that, Amazon acquired MGM for $8.5 billion. The list of studio M&A deals and rumors is a long one, with buyers ranging from streaming platforms and traditional media to CPG and blue chip private equity firms. In this episode, Chris and Andrew discuss the recent high-priced M&A, media valuations on a standalone VS streamer-integrated basis, private equity's perceived market timing, where the next big talent deals may happen, and new content buyers like FAST platforms, Apple, and Nike. (and apologies, we had a technical snafu so the recording quality is a bit subpar) Subscribe to our newsletter. We explore the intersection of media, technology, and commerce: sign-up linkLearn more about our market research and executive advisory: RockWater websiteEmail us: rounduppod@wearerockwater.com--EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:Chris Erwin:So Andrew, I've been reading a lot of headlines lately about all of the capital investment and M&A of different production and media companies. It actually reminds me of when I first got into the digital space back in 2012, 2013. But we'll talk about that parallel a little bit later on. There's a few deals, I think, worth highlighting, but are you reading the same headlines that I am? Andrew Cohen:Yeah, it's crazy. We've seen a bunch of acquisitions, investments, and then even a lot of rumored ones and the numbers are eye-popping. So it's... Chris Erwin:Let's go through a few of these deals. As always, there's a laundry list. But most recently, Hello Sunshine was acquired for $900 million by a Blackstone-backed media venture. And of note, that venture, I think, has Kevin Mayer and Tom Staggs, they're helping to spearhead it. We saw Amazon acquire MGM for around $8.5 billion, and it's actually, I think 28 times EBITDA, wild. A24, supposedly rumored to be exploring a sale for around $3 billion. Also SpringHill, spearheaded by famed athlete LeBron James, seeking a sale for around three-quarters of a million. And the list goes on. You got Imagine with Ron Howard and Brian Grazer, Legendary Entertainment, Lionsgate Spyglass, et cetera. Any other big deals I'm missing? Andrew Cohen:I'm sure there are. Especially if you span back over the past year or two, seeing things like Crunchyroll being acquired by Sony for almost $2 billion. STX sold for almost $1 billion last year, and there's a lot more. We're seeing these every week and it's definitely made me sit back and wonder why. Chris Erwin:Quick clarification. Was STX sold or they've just raised seven hundred million? Andrew Cohen:So it raised and then it merged. Chris Erwin:So then it begs the question, Andrew, why is there all this market activity? And particularly, I think just over the past two to three months, it feels like there's been a major uptick. And I think with all the rumors that we just walked through and more, that we can come back after the August vacation and Q3, Q4 is just a wild M&A sprint. So why is this happening? Andrew Cohen:Like a lot of other pods we've done, all roads lead back to the streaming wars. So content and IP, what we're seeing, is more valuable than ever before because of the exorbitant spends that we're seeing in the streaming wars as consumption is shifting from traditional TV and film onto the streaming platforms. And so the major players: Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max, and now Discovery, all of them are spending more and more in the billions every year on content and marketing to increase customer acquisition, to reduce churn, and to maximize lifetime value, and to ultimately win the future of entertainment when it's a streaming-first world. And in this world, content is more valuable than ever before. It's content-exclusive IP. It drives user acquisition. It minimizes churn. And what we've seen is it's new tentpole originals of things like Stranger Things that really boosts user acquisitions. Andrew Cohen:People come on to be part of the zeitgeist, watch these new shows. And then library content, so things like The Office, boost user retention. People stay there to watch these comfort food shows. And I think that that explains a lot of the acquisition and investment activity that we're seeing. So things like Hello Sunshine and A24, I see as more of a bet on future output of new tentpole originals for user acquisition. Both of those studios do have a great library of content, but I think it's more about taking a bet on best-in-class creators to continue to churn out the type of best-in-class content that's going to bring people to the platform. Andrew Cohen:Then things like the MGM acquisition by Amazon, I think that that was really a big bet on library. They have classic IP like James Bond. Chris Erwin:Don't forget Pink Panther. Andrew Cohen:Of course. The list goes on, I'm sure. Rocky. Roku, who recently did the same acquiring the Quibi library. So that's going to be the type of stuff that keeps people on the platform, reduces churn, and maximizes user retention. So really, a catchphrase I hear a lot from people in that world is that as the streaming wars are going on, it's these production companies that are the bullet makers, and that makes them more valuable than ever before in today's [inaudible 00:04:18] . Chris Erwin:So a few things to break down there. I think a point about investing in production companies/studios, where you're going to get a team that you believe is going to make a lot of high quality and differentiated content in the future that is going to help drive user acquisition through temporal content. And just even having a really great library, which drives retention, which is increasingly important as there's more and more competition, right? Someone churns off, the ability to get them back becomes even more expensive, as now there's HBO Max and there's Peacock and all the niche streamers, et cetera. And I think that is something that is reflected in Netflix's recent re-upping of their deal with Shondaland, right? So that was the first big talent landmark deal with the streamer. I think dating back to around 2016, 2017, that set off a big talent buying spree of Ryan Murphy with Netflix and a handful of others. But clearly it worked out for Netflix, right? The number one performing Netflix show is Bridgerton, which was done through the Shondaland partnership. And I think they're betting that that's going to happen again. Andrew Cohen:On a similar point, even the second-tier streamers like Paramount Plus. You just saw Viacom CBS just spent $900 million on a deal with the creators of South Park to turn out new seasons of the show and even new movies. So again, taking this bet on fresh content, beloved IP to drive acquisition and retention. Chris Erwin:The dynamics that we are talking about now is where we're seeing that there is a very viable business model for this content. I think it's worth noting that you look at a price tag that we're seeing for what's rumored for Spring Hill or 900 million for Hello Sunshine. And you're like, how does this make any sense? On a standalone basis, do these companies make enough revenue and EBITDA that drives that independent valuation. Chris Erwin:But the point is the independent valuation is not what matters. It's about the integrated value that is going to be created in the business model of a streamer. And I think back to my early days in the digital world where I started out in digital YouTube and MCN, so I was part of Big Frame, which is then sold to Awesomeness. But in that vintage of 2012, 2013, you saw incredible investment where I think it was Comcast and Time Warner Cable were investing in Maker Studios and Full Screen and Dreamworks Animation, but Awesomeness pretty early on in 2012, if I remember, 2013. And there was all this hope, which is like, okay, when you looked at the Comscore data of these MCNs, just the amount of digital traffic to them was incredible. Chris Erwin:And so the bet from these traditional cable or media businesses, is like, we don't have the business model now to extract revenues, but we're sure we'll figure it out. With traffic and audience, revenue will come. But the reality is, that never actually really happened, and there was also massive changes in the platform algorithms in YouTube or in Facebook, which caused viewership to just tank overnight. A lot of things that were outside of the control. But today these dynamics, the business model is much more solid and the environment is much more stable, because these companies are going, like a Netflix or a Peacock's, going direct to consumer. They're not relying on a third party platform. So it actually makes sense. So I just thought that's an interesting parallel, comparing my weirdo digital history. Andrew Cohen:Absolutely. I think the fact that you refer to 2013 as vintage, I think shows how fast this space is moving. And I think what you just said about the stable operating environment on the buy side for the platforms, I think is just as true on the sell side as well, comparing this premium OTT landscape to the wild wild west of early stage digital video. Because I think a lot of these bets on early stage YouTube traders, MCNs, where you catch lightning in a bottle, but then the algorithm shifts, trends shifts. I think right now, when you look at companies like an A24 or a Hello Sunshine ,who have been able to consistently produce the [inaudible 00:08:11] best-in-class movies, TV that people connect with. I think that that is a safer bet that someone like a Netflix or an Apple can bring them onto their platform and say, "Keep making that, but make it for us." And that there's consistency and reliability there that they're going to continue to turn out the type of premium fair that brings people onto the platform. Chris Erwin:There's also another trend that's happening here in the buyer-verse that's worth calling out. And that is the fact that really large private equity, blue-chip companies are getting involved in the content bidding wars. So specifically, right, we saw Apollo over the past few months, acquire Yahoo and AOL from Verizon for a few billion. And then Hello Sunshine, again, was acquired by a Blackstone-backed private equity vehicle. From my history in digital and entertainment, particularly over the past five to seven years, you wouldn't see these big PE firms making these size bets in media, typically. But I think the tides have turned. And the reason is, I think these are going to be, short-term holds. The private equity owners are sophisticated. They don't want a standalone basis that these companies are not going to drive meaningful revenue and cashflow. Chris Erwin:But like you said, the streamer war dynamics means that there's going to be an aggressive buying race over the next two to three years. It's not going away over the next six months. It's going to increase. And if these firms can buy up a bunch of media assets, consolidate them, get them to a certain scale, and even potentially, who knows? Is the next Shondaland deal with Netflix? Will we start seeing equivalents of that with Apollo and Blackstone packaged into their new media portfolios? Potentially. And then they're going to flip them for a good profit, I think, in the next 36 months. So I wasn't seeing this coming, but it seems to make sense. Andrew Cohen:How do you think that the increasing stack presence plays into all this? Chris Erwin:Obviously Buzzfeed is going public in a spec and is using spec proceeds and other investment to roll up complex, as well. As these digitally native companies, again, are realizing increased scale through consolidation, then getting more investment through spec, maybe they're upping their quality of programming. And they're looking at really premium franchises, like say Hot Ones under Complex or Buzzfeed Tasty, and say, "How can we go even bigger and make this attractive to a Netflix or a Peacock or a Discovery and align with their Food Network programming?" Yeah. Maybe that also feeds the wars in the future. I don't know. That's my two cents. Andrew Cohen:Totally makes sense. So as we look at what you just said, that PE, they're holding for this big buying spree to come as values are inflating for content and IP, I think makes you think of who these buyers are going to be. One thing that comes to mind is just the OTT platforms themselves. So, and we're already seeing platforms spending tons of money on output deals. You mentioned Shondaland, Viacom, CBS. Would it make sense for them to follow the Disney model? Like what Disney did acquiring Pixar or Marvel, and acquiring studios outright to own the process from end to end, from development to distribution. And then I think beyond that, there's a few other potential buyers in the market. Like consumer product brands. We saw Apple is one of the companies that are better being rumored to buy A24. Nike is one of the companies being rumored to buy SpringHill. So I think as we're seeing media and commerce merge and content become this universal truth, I could definitely see a world where these studios serve real value to companies even outside of the streaming wars, as we know it. Chris Erwin:Well, I think of note, Andrew, that there's just also not a lot of premium studio assets left, right? MGM was taken off the table, Legendary was taken off the table. I think Lionsgate is rumored. I think a question that I'm left with is like, what are these other assets that could be exciting for, say, new buyers for these CPG companies. Like a Nike, for example. So here's a crazy thought. Thinking about the next big source of digitally-native IP that caters to these new, young fandoms that are going to become older and want to have loyalty with platforms over the years, might some of these streamers start dipping their toes in acquiring large metaverse creators or worlds? Is that something we might see? I think that's top of mind because we're doing some work that's relevant in that space, but just a random thought that came to me. Andrew Cohen:Absolutely. I think eyeballs follow content and IP that they connect with. And right now, especially for younger audiences, a lot of that is being originated in the metaverse. So definitely wouldn't be surprised to see that adapted by the main streaming platforms, I think even just, again, expanding the [inaudible 00:12:50] power defining the streaming wars, there's also what we call the AVOD wars or the fast wars outside of subscription platforms like Netflix and HBO. You have the Roku's, the Tubi's of the world that amassing huge audiences at a really big footprint. But right now it's still a really commodified space. And we've been seeing some moves into original content programming by them to differentiate them and their offerings in the marketplace, like the Quibi library acquisition that we mentioned earlier. But I could definitely see them moving more and more upstream to more premium tentpole originals. And to do that, I think acquiring a studio or production company would make a lot of sense. Chris Erwin:Yeah. I think the core business model for those AVOD and fast platforms is selling ad inventory across their third party content. But we know that the negotiation rights for selling that inventory, that is a constant battle with their partners, and who knows how the terms are going to change. And so where they have more control, is there more owned content hubs that they're creating, which gives them not only more ad inventory, but also a differentiated user experience relative to their other fast peers, right? Andrew Cohen:With a bigger user base, bigger control of the market and audience size, you have more leverage with those ad partners. I think the most viable way to gain market share, and like I said, it's kind of a commodified space, is by having differentiated premium content offering that can make Roku the go-to AVOD platform. And then once you own that audience, you could now have a lot more leverage in the ad market. Chris Erwin:We all know a lot of marketers are really frustrated by the fact that they are not able to participate in the SVOD environment. So we know marketers have been clamoring, Netflix say, like, "Let us in." Also create an ad based model. Now we're seeing that HBO max and peacock have ad-based support. But I think a lot of these marketers still want more premium content environments to advertise to consumers in. And I think the fast platforms are going to offer that for them as that demand goes up. I think that's yet another reason why they're going to start investing in more premium content, to get those ad dollars. But Andrew, I think that we are backing up against our time limit here. So unless there's any final points, I think we've got to say, "Till next time." Andrew Cohen:Next time. See you then.

He has also been immortalized as an in-game video-game character in Watch Dogs 2 as well as in NBA2K Playgrounds 1 and 2. In addition, he is a mainstay at gaming conferences and panels across the country, including PAX East, PAX West, New York Comic Con, BoroughCon and Fall Experiment 19. Healso later re-visited and re-cultivated his initial passion for music by creating original music for a variety of titles, including for Twisted Metal, Pokemon, Halo, Uncharted 4, Watch Dogs 2, Drawn To Deathand Battleship.The HipHopGamer had worked with some of the world's top brands and companies, including FullScreen, BET, Square ENIX, Machinima, Ubisoft, Take Two, Electronic Arts, B&H Photo, NBC Universal,Logitech, Microsoft Game Studios, Nintendo, HTC Vive, NaughtyDog, Activision, Sony Interactive Entertainment, and GameStop, to name a few. He has been featured on many other mainstream entertainment, music, and gaming publications, including HipHopDX, Game Rant, Digital Trends, News 12, Cheddar, One37PM, DV8, Shoryulen, HipHopWired, HellaHipHop, Gamersify, among others.

Chris Ovitz is the Co-Founder and President of OK Play. We discuss growing up in a Hollywood family, building technology-enabled media companies, life revelations during an Alabama roadtrip, "humble magnetism", launching a venture fund with the co-founder of Twitter, YouTube as a babysitter, and why the future of play is putting kids at the center of story and creation.Subscribe to our newsletter. We explore the intersection of media, technology, and commerce: sign-up linkLearn more about our market research and executive advisory: RockWater websiteListen to our weekly executive insights on Media x Commerce news: Mondays at 2pm PT on Clubhouse via @chriserwinFollow The Come Up on Twitter: @TCUpodEmail us: tcupod@wearerockwater.com---EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:Chris Erwin:Hi, I'm Chris Erwin. Welcome to The Come Up, a podcast that interviews entrepreneurs and leaders.  Chris Ovitz:There's so much guilt in general for parents, and then there's all this judgment around screen time. And I think that we forget in our little bubbles, the whole no screens thing is a privilege, that YouTube is a babysitter is real, and it's a problem. Chris Erwin:This week's episode features Chris Ovitz, the co-founder and President of OK Play. Chris grew up in LA. And like so many others, his first love was film. So he went to a Hollywood studio, but soon after, Chris became enamored with the intersection of entertainment and technology. Over the past decade, Chris has founded a handful of different companies. And most recently, him and his team are building OK Play where they're reimagining screen time for kids, and putting kids at the center of story and creation. We get into a lot of things in this episode, but a few highlights include what it's like growing up in a deeply connected Hollywood family, some life revelations during an Alabama road trip, his humble approach to building teams, and most recently, helping to launch a venture fund with Biz Stone, co-founder of Twitter. All right, this episode was a lot of fun. And Chris weaves in some pretty wild stories from his early career. Let's get into it. Chris Erwin:Let's dive back in time a little bit. Why don't you tell me about where you grew up and your childhood a little bit? Chris Ovitz:I grew up in LA. My mom and dad are both from LA. They went to UCLA. They met there. Pretty normal childhood in LA, as normal as it can be growing up in LA, lots of after school sports and just hanging out with friends, skateboarding and roller hockey and football and all sorts of stuff like that, lots of video games and film in my family. And it was a pretty traditional childhood. Chris Erwin:Okay, you are a skater as well. I was a skater growing up, I played some soccer and tennis. And then when I started hurting my ankle skateboarding, my coaches were like, "All right, that's it. Enough for you." Chris Ovitz:You were probably a much better skater than I was. I never actually got good at it. But I loved it. Yeah, I definitely spent a lot more time playing, baseball was my sport. So I played a lot of baseball growing up. Chris Erwin:Okay, cool. You mentioned that you were passionate for gaming and for film. Were there any games that you liked the most? Chris Ovitz:So I was about 15 when PlayStation 1 came out so I think that was probably the core part of my childhood gaming love and I would say Final Fantasy VII, Resident Evil. Earlier than that, I played really Super Bomberman and Mario Kart on the SNES, lots of Street Fighter, things like that. Chris Erwin:Yeah, I remember Street Fighter 2 with like Ken and Ryu and Hadouken and all that. I was like, that was a real favorite for me. Yeah, I also like being Zangief, the Russian wrestler, whatever. Chris Ovitz:Funny story, I always played as Ken Masters. And that was the name on my fake ID in high school, so yeah. Chris Erwin:Your father was in the entertainment industry. I don't know if your mother was in the entertainment industry as well. But was there any kind of like inspiration for you of the path that you want to go down as you were thinking about going to school, before you went to Brown and UCLA? Chris Ovitz:So yeah, my father was in entertainment. He started a company called Creative Artists Agency, which was one of the biggest agencies around and so it was amazing to watch and to be around. And I always thought that that was kind of the path for me. But as I got older in high school, and he had left CAA to do other stuff, he kind of left me with this big question mark on what I wanted to do. And I was like, I didn't really know what my passions were. Chris Ovitz:And so it started me on my journey. And my journey from about 18 through my late 20s was kind of a bit all over the place, but I wouldn't be who I am today without it. And my father was incredibly talented pioneer and many things in entertainment. And had I been a little more mature at 18, I think I would have realized that he was probably right, and it was best for me. So I ended up, I was fortunate enough to be accepted to Brown University. That's where he wanted me to go. I always wanted to go to UCLA because it was what I knew. Brown was amazing. I have incredible friends there. I learned a lot there. But I ended up transferring back to UCLA. I told myself that was where I wanted to go, but if I'm being honest, it was probably because I wanted to see about a girl. Chris Erwin:Okay, did you transfer like your sophomore junior year? When did you go over? Chris Ovitz:I transferred my sophomore year. So I did a year, Brown my freshman year, and then started at UCLA my sophomore year. Chris Erwin:And was UCLA what you had hoped it was going to be? Were you pumped to be there? Chris Ovitz:Yeah, it was amazing. UCLA is a great school. I had a blast. I was a history major. I just loved learning about different cultures and I studied a lot of Roman, ancient Rome and medieval history that I found that fascinating. Chris Erwin:When we were talking earlier, you said that there was some poor decisions were a pattern of your youth. So, I mean, do you bucket in like going to Brown and then going to UCLA as part of that or are you referencing something else? I'm very curious there. Chris Ovitz:For decisions, I say that a bit jokingly. But I think what I mean by that is Brown is an incredible school, and everyone would kill to be able to go there. And had I stayed there, I think it would have been amazing. But look, I was motivated by girls at that age, instead of being motivated by a passion for what I wanted to do with my life. So I think that's kind of what I did, whether it was transferring to UCLA because I had a girlfriend there at the time that I had met on winter break from Brown. I would make decisions like that, without thinking too far ahead. And I think as I got older, that's not happening. You start to think through each decision with a little more thought for the future. Chris Erwin:Well look, if there's any point in your life when you're going to be a little bit impulsive, doing that in your teens and early 20s, that's a good thing. Get that out of your system, and I would also say that having a little bit of impulse ability, or whatever the right word is, as you get older, versus not having to be so calculated all the time based on societal pressures, that's okay. Okay, so you transfer to UCLA, you graduate, and then how do you kick off your career? What type of work do you start getting into? Chris Ovitz:So again, it comes back to this really not knowing what my path was yet, not knowing what I wanted to do. I knew I loved film. The entertainment industry was in my DNA. And I knew that I wanted to be a part of it in some way, at least at that point in my life. And so I actually applied to film school. I didn't tell anyone in my family. I applied to the theater, film and television program at UCLA. I decided I was only going to tell them if I got in. I ended up getting in and had an idea that I thought I wanted to be a director. And after about a year in film school, I realized I didn't want to be a struggling artist. So I dropped out and I wanted the income. I wanted to get to work. Unfortunately, at the time, I also had suffered a really bad herniated disc and had to take some time to get a pretty significant back surgery to correct that and rehab it. And at that point, I decided to take a job. It was pretty awesome. I got the opportunity to be one of the first employees as an assistant at Paramount Vantage working for a guy named John Lesher, and that was my first real job out of college. It was an incredible experience. Chris Erwin:Awesome. And what was Paramount Vantage? Chris Ovitz:Backing up a second, John Lesher was an agent at Endeavor at the time before it was WME, and he represented clients like Scorsese and Judd Apatow and Alejandro Inarritu and all these amazing filmmakers. And he was asked to go over and run Paramount Classics, which was Paramount's independent film arm, and he was asked to rebrand it and basically start their new art house film division. I got to see him build it from the ground up. And I got to see him go through the process of building the brand, picking the brand, naming it, designing it. And there I got to really learn how important a talented team was. He had gone out and just picked the best in the industry. And then I got to watch as all these projects came together that went on to be some Academy Award winning films and really well highly, highly acclaimed films. While I was there, we were developing No Country for Old Men, There Will be Blood, all these really exciting films. But mostly, I drove the golf cart around for the most part. Chris Erwin:What a great experience I feel like right out of undergrad, and it seems that you also have some really great stories from working there about Kanye West and Judd Apatow and a few others. So please do share. Chris Ovitz:Yeah, I mean and the Kanye one's probably less interesting, but just funny. I remember him coming in for a meeting, I had to pick him in his entourage up in the golf cart and make multiple trips. And he told me he was hungry. And he asked what was on the menu, and so I had to go get him the menu from the commissary and he said he was really in the mood for grilled salmon. And so I got him some grilled salmon and brought it into the meeting and my boss was like, "What are you doing?" I was like, "Kanye wanted some food. Here it is.", and he shoo-ed me out of the office. And then the Judd Apatow story, backing up a bit. Jonah Hill was actually, before he was Jonah Hill, when he was Jonah Feldstein was in my student film at UCLA because I knew him from growing up in LA. Chris Ovitz:And Judd Apatow had come in to pitch his latest project. And I had read the script because that was one of the perks of working there. I got to be on the weekend read team and give my opinion on the scripts that they were reading. And I told Judd, and Judd had no idea who I was. I was just a kid driving a golf cart. And I said, "You need to make Jonah Hill the lead in this project." And so I'd like to think that I'm responsible for Jonah ending up in Superbad, which is probably not true. But it was funny because I was the only one, it turned out Vantage at the time, that thought we should make that movie. And so my boss John was like, "Well, if you like it so much, go and write a letter to the heads of the studio on why we should buy this film." And I did. And I was like, "This is the greatest thing ever." Chris Erwin:Hold on a second, you wrote a letter to the head of the studio for why they should buy the film Superbad. Chris Ovitz:Exactly, yes. Chris Erwin:Okay, what did you say in that letter? Chris Ovitz:I just explained why I thought it was going to be a hit. It was a very genuine, authentic letter from a nobody assistant at Paramount Vantage. But my boss respected my opinion. And he sent it to Brad Grey, who knew me and Brad was the CEO at the time. He was just a fabulous, fabulous guy, unfortunately passed away a few years ago. And they appreciated it. But they passed and it actually ended up being Warner Bros.' biggest hit that next summer. So that's my little claim to fame and moment I'm most proud of in my first job. Chris Erwin:That's an amazing story. I love coming of age movies, and Superbad is definitely very high on the list. Chris Ovitz:Yeah, I was obsessed. It was so well written, so funny. Seth Rogen, he was coming up, but he wasn't established at that point. It was a really fun read. And I was really happy to see that Jonah got cast in that part. Again, I'm pretty sure that was because of me. Chris Erwin:So that's an amazing experience. But I think you realized that entertainment wasn't for you. And you kind of changed your career trajectory a little bit. So what happens next after that? Chris Ovitz:So I think I wanted to do something that was a little more meaningful. Traditional entertainment was fine. I love stories. I think one of the reasons I started thinking about moving away, I didn't like the behavior and entertainment. There was just a lot of yelling, a lot of disrespect. It's one of the last industries where there's a true apprenticeship, which I do like about it. But everyone was kind of becoming bad Xerox copies of the bosses they had before them, and just picking up bad habits. And so there were all these things that were accepted that I didn't like, like yelling at your employees. Chris Ovitz:And so that got me starting to think about what was next. And I was fortunate enough to get hired to run business development at a early virtual world company. And this was really interesting to me, because I always loved building communities and connecting people. And this opportunity played into that in a big way, because you would, this is by the way, in about late 2005, early 2006. And we built this virtual world where you could go to virtual host virtual parties and screenings and shows, and so I was producing virtual concerts with artists like Maroon 5 and the Pussycat Dolls, Kenna. We'd set up virtual storefronts. And this is all before things like Oculus. So it was, way ahead of its time, and a lot of fun. But ultimately, it ended up being like World of Warcraft with nothing to do. It didn't really work out. But it was fun, because we were doing things like I don't know if you saw what Fortnite did with Travis Scott and other artists, these big virtual concerts. Chris Erwin:Yeah, Marshmallow and all that taking off. Chris Ovitz:Exactly. But we were doing stuff like that in 2006 at a much, much smaller scale. Chris Erwin:You mentioned how you got the job, there's a unique story behind that, right? Chris Ovitz:Yeah, so my father was quite influential, obviously. And he knew my boss at Paramount. He'd call me. He's like, "Hey, I got to borrow my son for the day." And I was like, "Sure." And so I go and fly up with my father to a couple meetings in San Francisco. My father liked to invest in tech. And he knew that I had a strong opinion about games and tech and digital media. And so he wanted me to sit in on a couple of these meetings and give my opinion. And as we're arriving at this meeting at this particular company, which at the time, it was called Doppelganger, we later changed our name to vSide, rocking small startup, only about 20 people, everyone's in the room, and they're about to make this big presentation to my father. And he's like, "I want you to observe, and then give me your opinion after Do not talk." And so of course, I talked the whole time, like, "You need to do this. I can introduce you to this person. I can help with that." I walked out of the meeting with a job offer, which was awesome. And so ultimately, my dad was happy, but he looked mortified the entire meeting. Chris Erwin:Were you intentional that you wanted to speak? Was that like acting out against your father? Or did it just naturally come up? Chris Ovitz:No, that was just because I can never keep my mouth shut. Chris Erwin:So then, right after that, we're going down this journey where you become a serial entrepreneur, I think in a few years, which we'll get to, I think a major stepping stone to that was that you went to go work at Adly, which was founded by Sean Rad, who became the founder of Tinder. So what was Adly, and what were you doing there? Chris Ovitz:Yeah, so Adly was one of the first companies to monetize the social streams for influencers, so getting Kim Kardashian to tweet on behalf of a brand. And they were pretty much the pioneer in that space. And so I knew I wanted to work in tech, but I didn't want to be in SF. The city unfortunately just wasn't for me. And I really liked my life in LA. And I was probably onto something because everyone seems to want to move down here now from up there or to Miami it seems now as of last week. Like you said, I met Sean through Dana Settle from Greycroft, who was a friend and she suggested that we think about working together, and we hit it off. And Sean's brilliant, and I was inspired by him. He's a young entrepreneur built with big, big ideas. Chris Ovitz:Obviously, I was right, in seeing something and then he moved and went on to start Tinder. But unfortunately, when we were at Adly, Facebook and Twitter weren't too excited about us monetizing their social feeds. It was ahead of its time a little bit as well. We got blocked. And that's kind of when everyone saw the writing on the wall. So after just about 10 months, that's when I departed and was lucky enough to meet my current co-founder and my co-founder of Viddy in JJ. He took a chance on me and invited me to co-found Viddy with him. And that's where my journey really gained some traction. Chris Erwin:I remember the days of when the large social platforms and tech incumbents were blocking their peers. So yeah, at Big Frame, we have built like a programmatic marketplace where our different influencer and talent clients could promote one another. YouTube shut off access to their API very quickly once they figured out what we were doing. So I definitely get the challenges there. Chris Erwin:So after this stint in Adly, but it seems like you had made the transition from like a pure play entertainment studio industry, now going into kind of like tech that's like tech talent, intersection with media as well and social. And were you feeling at this point like, "Yes, this is the path that I want to be on, that this feels much more right than where I was before this"? Chris Ovitz:Definitely. I realized that I think at that point, I realized I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I watched guys like Sean, and I was like, there's no reason I can't do this. I love creating things from scratch. I had some unfair advantages built in in the network that I had acquired and had built. I realized pretty early on that I was really good at surrounding myself with people much smarter than me, much more talented than me. And I realized that talent was everything. Chris Ovitz:I use my network to almost be an agent for the businesses that I was building or involved in. And I was able to do that at Viddy in a big way. I saw that we had something. I saw that we had a product that had market fit. It worked. JJ is one of the best product designers I've ever had the pleasure of working with. And he built a beautiful Instagram for video type product at just the right time, when everyone was craving that, when investors were craving that type of product. We met in the end of 2010. And then basically January 2011, we were starting to work on it and then we launched in April of 2011. And that's literally when Flip Cam, if you remember those handheld camcorders, they shut down in April, and we launched in April. And so it was kind of like with the death of Flip Cam was the rise of Viddy and the social mobile video wars, by the way, like our biggest competitor was Socialcam, which was started by the Justin TV guys, which ultimately became Twitch. And it was just an all out like bloodbath between us and Socialcam seeing who could grow the fastest, wild ride, wild west, extremely interesting time to be in the video space. Chris Erwin:So being a first time entrepreneur, what kind of caught you off guard or by surprise in that first experience, in going through those motions? Chris Ovitz:Once you're a founder, it's a very lonely, lonely job. And so just dealing with the emotions of the roller coaster that it is, like video ultimately was only two and a half years of my life, but it felt like 10, and so the ups and the downs. And then I think realizing how quickly you can grow something by leveraging the power of your network. We went from zero to 50 million users in a year, granted a lot of that growth came off the back of Facebook and Open Graph. Us in social can have the benefit of that. But we were the first video app to have access to Open Graph. And that was because of a relationship that we had, just shows the power of relationships and how you can use those relationships to grow things. Chris Erwin:Yeah. You mentioned that when you were at Adly, and you saw, you observed Sean, you're like, "Oh, Sean is founding these companies.", you felt empowered that you could do the same. And you felt that you had this powerful network, you had good energy to bring to the table and a certain skill set, but also awareness of what skills he didn't have. Being at Viddy, did you observe skills that you're like, "Hey, for my serial entrepreneur career to continuously progress, here's something that I really want to work on."? Chris Ovitz:You know, it's funny. Things that I really want to work on, I think what Viddy taught me was actually to focus on my strengths and not my weaknesses. So many people say you should, I just read a quote about Tom Brady, sorry to change the subject. But talking about how he's achieved the level of success that he has. One of his big tenets is focus on your weaknesses. And I used to do that too much. And so I think at Viddy, working with the team there, I realized that everyone was so good at what they did. If I was focusing on my weaknesses, there was always somebody that was going to do it better, be able to do that better. And so I spent my time focusing on my strengths. And that's when I think good things really started to happen. That was probably my biggest learning at Viddy. Chris Erwin:I agree with that very much, Chris. It's a lot easier to go from good to great versus going from bad to good. And as a leader, I think strong self awareness is really critical in saying, "Okay, here's where I'm good, here's where I'm not." But your job is to build a team, to resource a team, to build towards the bigger vision that the company has. And I have learned that there's a lot less friction, you can move a lot faster. And also just build a team where people are more complimentary and happy coming to work every day with that mindset, going from good to great. Chris Ovitz:Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. Chris Erwin:So Viddy though, you do end up selling to Fullscreen, is that right? Chris Ovitz:We did, yeah. So we were acquired by Fullscreen. In full transparency, I left before the acquisition because it was quite a roller coaster ride, and I was ready to move on and to figure out what's next. But we had built a relationship with George, the CEO and founder of Fullscreen early on. He was a friend, and we were always trying to find ways to partner together. So when things got tough at Viddy, it was just a natural home for the company. They had SVOD ambitions, and we had one of the most talented product and engineering teams around with expertise in video. So it was a no brainer. And as I said, I wanted to move on to what was next and I was pretty burnt out from that roller coaster. And at one point, we were the number one app in 49 countries. And then one day we weren't. And so I was just ready. I was ready for what was next. But it was great. Look, JJ went on to be the Chief Product Officer of Fullscreen. And Ken, our CTO went on to run their engineering team. But unfortunately, actually I'm working with them again today, which is really, really awesome. But we can come back to that. Chris Erwin:I think Fullscreen leveraged your technology to launch a streaming service, I think three to four years back. I remember that because I think there was like a lot of different Fullscreen talent clients are on it. And I think they also were licensing Friends and maybe Seinfeld. It was an interesting juxtaposition of content. But I think everyone's been learning what users actually want and don't want over the past half decade. All right, so after that, you do end up starting another company called Workpop, but you did a brief stint at Scopely. What was that pathway like? I think you said you were scratching this gamer itch that maybe you had but led quickly to something else, curious to the journey there. Chris Ovitz:Look, I always had the gamer itch and I'm always going to have the gamer itch. I love games and anything related to games. And the Scopely thing was interesting because I had promised myself since I was burnt out, I was going to take some time to recharge. But I was having lunch with a friend of mine who was at Scopely. And he was telling me how great it was. And they were going after all these big licenses. And frankly, it just sounded fun. And he was like, "Why don't you come join us?" At the time, they were still small, 50 or 60 people. And they had just come off this big hit for them, Mini Golf Madness, which I had kind of fun playing. And I also knew Walter Driver pretty well from back in the day. And I knew Eytan as well. They're the founders. And I figured that it would be a really fun place to go and join until I decided what was next. Chris Ovitz:Unfortunately, in a twist of fate, unfortunately for them, not for me, but they've done fine since anyways, but they roomed me and my co-founder from Workpop together on a company off site. He was the new VP of Product that they had hired out of Zynga. He used to run the With Friends platform there, and we hit it off and he's still one of my best friends. And we basically decided that night that we would eventually leave and start something together, we just didn't realize how soon it would be. Chris Erwin:This is like one of the first nights with a company at an off site, and you meet a new colleague, and you decide then and there like, "We're going to start a company together." That's pretty fast. Chris Ovitz:Basically, we hit it off, and we're like, "We need to do something." And I just had no idea that it would be that quickly. Chris Erwin:Yeah. Why do you think you guys vibe so well? What was special about him? Chris Ovitz:We had really complementary skill sets. He's extremely talented product executive and entrepreneur. He actually just launched his company yesterday called Mojo, which is a sports app for kids and actually to make coaches better and improve the youth sports experience, which I'm actually really excited about. And he's super talented. And yeah, we just knew it. Do you ever meet someone and you're like, you know you're going to be good friends and you know you're going to work well together? That's what it was like. And so we had fun working together at Scopely and we worked on some really fun products together. And then ultimately we decided to go into enterprise software. Chris Erwin:Hey, listeners, this is Chris Erwin, your host of The Come Up. I have a quick ask for you, if you dig what we're putting down, if you like the show, if you like our guest, it would really mean a lot if you can give us a rating wherever you listen to our show. It helps other people discover our work. And it also really supports what we do here. All right, that's it everybody. Let's get back to the interview. Chris Erwin:In under a year, you end up founding what's called Workpop. What was Workpop? Chris Ovitz:Back then, mobile job search was almost non existent. And so we wanted to build a better hiring experience for essential workers. So back then, most of the hiring platforms were really focused on building for the employer, and not the job seeker. And so we decided we wanted to build a better experience. And it was a great idea, started with great intentions. I went into that space because I wanted to prove that I could do something that was completely outside of media and entertainment. I wanted to show people that I can build a real company. Chris Ovitz:And I did that. But along the journey, which took me to places like selling door to door in places like Birmingham, Alabama, nothing wrong with Birmingham, Alabama, but I realized that wasn't where I wanted to be. And I realized that I needed to be passionate about the space. And I thought I could build anything and be excited about it as long as it was my team. I was super excited about the team, really enjoyed who I was working with. But at the end of the day, these companies take on a life of their own, and you need to be in a space that you truly, truly love. Chris Ovitz:And so that was probably my big learning with Workpop. Further, we went down the stack. It started as job seeking, and then it became hiring software. And we're building HR software. And then we were like smack in the middle of the HR tech space. And that's when I realized it wasn't for me. We were building a product for small and medium businesses, and it's just a really tough grind selling into that segment. Chris Erwin:You mentioned that you went to Birmingham, Alabama for a sales trip when you were at Workpop. What's that story? Chris Ovitz:Look, this is where I realized that I needed to get out of the enterprise software business. My partner and I were on a plane, and we were flying to Birmingham, and the only thing we were excited about was going to be the food we were going to eat in the south. We both looked to each other and kind of had this moment where it's like, "Do we really?". We were both media guys. He came from the game world, and we both kind of ended up in this space, because we had a good idea. And we landed in Birmingham, and we were staying in a motel and we were there to sell a Papa John's franchisee. And we're going in and we met with the HR team was run by this very nice, but like 80 year old woman, and really didn't understand how technology worked. And so we found ourselves selling to a lot of those customers, and it was draining. And when we both looked, we were like, "Where are we? What are we doing right now?" And I think that was the moment. Again, I don't want to take anything away from Birmingham, Alabama. But it just wasn't where I wanted to be in my life. If I was going on sales trips, I wanted to be in New York or Chicago or San Francisco or places like that. Chris Erwin:Yeah. When you landed and you were doing these sales meetings in person, did you guys feel like immediately out of place? What was going on there? Chris Ovitz:Yeah, we definitely felt out of place. And it just felt like we could never do enough. I mean, we were running the business but we were also selling the product. We didn't have some huge sales force. And so it just took a lot to gain even an inch. We felt like we were running miles to get those small wins. And so whether we are in Birmingham, Alabama, or Orlando, Florida, it was just all over the country selling software. It just wasn't what I was into. Chris Erwin:Yeah. Well, Chris, I want to go back to something that you said where when you founded Workpop, you wanted to prove that you could build something that's not in media entertainment. So it's interesting, because you start in the core of the media entertainment industry, you're working at Paramount Vantage for a very seasoned studio executive and talent agent. And then you do start working in and then founding some companies that are at the intersection of tech and media. So the sentiment that you wanted to prove that you could do something different, was that for you or was it for someone else? Chris Ovitz:I think when you have a successful father, at the end of the day, you have a bar that's set for you. And so you're always trying to live up to that bar. And everyone always has preconceived notions of how you're going to be or expectations of you. And I think everyone expected me to do something in media entertainment, expected me to use my network to bring influencers into something right or do something influencer related, and I didn't want to do that. And I needed to scratch that itch. And I'm glad I did it. And it taught me a lot and led me to where I am today. Chris Erwin:So what happens with Workpop? Do you stay there through a sale to another company or you depart before the acquisition? What happens? Chris Ovitz:At Workpop, about five years in, one of our investors Cornerstone was interested in acquiring the company and the team. There was a natural fit, and they had an SMB product that they wanted to expand on and it was a perfect fit. And so I stayed on through the acquisition, but I knew that I wasn't going to stay and run technology partnerships. A big public enterprise software learning management system company, that wasn't in my future, it wasn't for me, incredible company, really a big fan of the Cornerstone team. And Adam Miller, he's a great advisor to us. But if I was being honest with myself, it wasn't where I was going to continue my career. So I took some time off. I was a new father, a relatively new father. My son was about three at the time, and really started thinking about what I wanted to do next. Chris Erwin:Yeah, it's interesting to hear you talk about your realization moment there that hey, this is not where I want to be like in terms of your career and work. In an interview with Chas Lacaillade, who's the founder of Bottle Rocket Management, an influencer management company, on our podcast, he was on a road trip in Louisiana in the Bayou. He was selling water pumps. He was in LA. And then he was working for a water pump company out of Orange County. He was on this sales trip and realized there in a conversation with his coworker Buddy in the car, like, "Hey, I need to get back to LA. This is not the right industry for me." So you guys definitely have parallels in your story there. Chris Ovitz:Definitely a wake up call for me. Chris Erwin:Yeah, all right. So after Workpop, you then launch OK Play, which is the company that you're at right now. So what's the story of how OK Play came to be? Chris Ovitz:I mean look, it sounds cliche, but I wanted to create something for my son. I was a relatively new father. Son's three years old at the time. I was watching one day while he was a preschool, I was watching Won't You Be My Neighbor, which is the Mr. Rogers documentary. And I became incredibly inspired. This was a man that knew how to reach children, how to talk to them in a way that they felt heard and understood. He didn't treat them like little kids. He treated them like real people, just smaller people. And I thought that was fascinating. And the way he used the television to reach a very, very large audience was very similar to the way that the mobile devices are ever present and not going anywhere. Chris Ovitz:And so in the way that I learned how powerful community was in Viddy, I thought that we could do something similar with the mobile devices and kids today. So I think that there's so much guilt in general for parents, and then there's all this judgment and guilt around screen time. And I think that we forget in our little bubbles in our world is that the whole no screens thing is a privilege. And the YouTube as a babysitter is real, and it's a problem. And I think at the end of the day, balance is key. And I think that there's no reason we can't reimagine screen time. These devices aren't going anywhere. And so I wanted to create something. My partners wanted to create something that was screen time that wasn't leaned back, that really puts kids at the center of the story and the creation. Chris Erwin:I like how you just phrase that, where I think a lot of people look at kids' content consumption as a problem that plagues the U.S. and all these other countries. But how do you put kids in the driver's seat of that content, that story to make it productive and helpful? I really like how you position that. So you have this vision. And so then how does this start? Where do you begin building and with who? Chris Ovitz:So I immediately called JJ, who was my co-founder of Viddy. And he was at Headspace at the time consulting for them, actually. And I was like, "You got to watch this documentary." He did. He was like, "Oh my God, this is awesome. I totally see what you mean. Let's start thinking about what this could look like." We reached out to our former CTO, Ken Chung, who's one of our co-founders, and he was running a big engineering team at Snap. So he was in charge of the camera team there, very talented engineer. He was at Fullscreen as well. And he's a new father. And so he got super excited about the potential. Chris Ovitz:And then we just kept building from there one by one, reaching out to people in our network that were extremely talented, that had young kids that could get excited about this. And so it really went from that is how the idea started to when we brought a gentleman named Travis Chen in, who's an interactive play designer. And he was the Chief Game Designer at Scopely, which is where I met him, super talented guy. And he was the one that really brought the play into the mix, and how we really started thinking about learning through play as the mechanism for which we were going to achieve our goals. Chris Ovitz:And so he joined. He was the Creative Director for Games and Interactive at Bad Robot, which is JJ Abrams' company. And then before he joined us, he was at Snap running all their AR innovation stuff. And so he was just the perfect person to come in and really help us think about how we can make the phone almost like a cardboard box. So when you see a cardboard box, you see a cardboard box. When a kid sees a cardboard box, they see a rocket ship, a castle, whatever. And so we wanted to take that philosophy and apply it to the content we were creating in the phone. So I think our OK Play, the vision is about really making it kid led, but parent involved. That's when kids really learn the most. So you can go on a treasure hunt with your child, you can do a fire rescue, you can run a candy factory and the kid is at the center of these stories, and they're creating them and then they're creating a piece of content that they can share with their family members. Chris Erwin:And is it intended for co-consumption, where it's both the parent and the child consuming and participating in the experience at the same time? Chris Ovitz:Absolutely. So it's all about this staring versus sharing, right? We want to get away from the mind numbing, like kid in zombie mode, create truly interactive content that is active and engaging and parents are included. I think this comes back to, so our other co-founder, who's our chief scientist, Colleen Russo Johnson. She's our child development expert and kids media expert. She did all this research on kids absorbing more when the parents are involved. So she did a bunch of research on Daniel Tiger, just the spiritual successor to Mr. Rogers. And I discovered her in an article in The Atlantic, in which she was quoted, it was the article is about ChuChu TV, which is basically like the Cocomelon of India. And she was talking about this study that she did, that kids learn the social and emotional concepts, learning concepts in Daniel Tiger much more quickly, and they absorb much more when the parent is actually watching it with them and engaging with them while they're watching it, than when they're just staring at it alone. Chris Ovitz:And so we took a lot of that and built what you see in OK Play today. And because of that article, we reached out to her, she started advising us and the and we're like, "You're perfect. You need to come join us and build this." And she was like, "This is my life's work in an app. This is awesome." And yeah, we just kind of built an all star team and just went after it. Chris Erwin:Yeah, this makes me think of have you heard of Nike Adventure Club? Chris Ovitz:I have not, actually. Chris Erwin:I think we wrote about this, maybe now almost like a year and a half ago. But essentially, Nike came up with like a subscription club for their shoes that brings both parents and kids together. So kids can go into the app with their parents and say, "Oh, I like these shoes. I like the story behind them.", learn about them, learn about their environmental impact when they are discarded. And then you sign up for the shoe. And then I think you can get replacements like once every six months or 12 months. And then along with the shoe also comes games and experiences and things you could do it like the local playground or at home. And it's this really cool idea that feels very similar to what you're describing. Chris Erwin:It seems like the timing for what you're building is just perfect. Also, I think back to the FTC settlement with YouTube, I think like a year and a half ago, where there's now going to be limited monetization for a lot of the kids content channels. And particularly with all the extremist content and the political backlash and what's happened over the past six months, I think there's a very strong desire for safer content destinations just overall, but particularly for our youth. So have you sensed that, that there's kind of this unique momentum and tailwind that you have in the market right now? Chris Ovitz:Definitely, there is. But I think it's very difficult for kids app developers and kid content creators. I think the privacy laws aren't making it any easier. They're only getting stricter, and they're a gray area and they're a moving target, which makes it tough. And the lawmakers aren't technologists. And so in some cases, the laws don't make any sense and just really don't apply. That said, children's privacy is, there's nothing more important, and we have to protect our kids online. But I would say it's getting very, very difficult to create this content because of the privacy laws. So you got to be, when you're thinking about making this content, you got to abide by a strict set of rules, you got to make sure you're not having outbound links that are triggering browsers, you got to gate everything. Social interaction can be a big no, no, but there's ways to do it creatively that are safe for the child. It's definitely the wild west right now, a little bit. Chris Erwin:Yeah. So it feels like you'd have to staff up that department and that need differently than say, what Complex or BuzzFeed would have to staff their digital and production and user experience team. So what does that mean for you guys? Do you have a bigger legal team? Or how do you incorporate that into your workflow? Chris Ovitz:Incredible lawyers, we all are just very aware of what's going on as far as privacy is concerned. There are specific certifications you can go out and get such as kidSAFE to let parents know that your app is safe for children. You just have to be on top of it and pay attention. Chris Erwin:So it seems like a fun part of this too just in the product development, like do you go out and you work with parents and kids to get an idea of like, "Hey, what would get you excited? We want to do some alpha testing." I mean, clearly the founding, the executive team that you guys have brought, brings a lot of personal experience, like you guys are all parents. How do you get inspired and get in the mindset of these children to design something that's really special for them? Chris Ovitz:So several ways. So we do a lot of play testing. We have a really vibrant community of parents and kids that will test things with. Another thing is we have to remember how to be kids. Kids are experts at play, right? We are not, somehow as an adult, you forget that. And so I think being a parent makes it a lot easier. I'm always building Lego or something like that with my son. I found myself as we've started this company, I'm watching children's cartoons and consuming all the content there is online and finding my favorite shows to draw inspiration from and then look, I'm probably the person that is contributing creatively least to what you see in the app, and I rely on our very talented creative team that lives and breathes this stuff to build these experiences and do this programming for children Chris Erwin:Got it. Within the app, is there a certain game or experience that's your favorite right now? Chris Ovitz:Right now, yeah. My favorite is probably Fire Rescue. So you take a picture of your face as a child, and it puts them in the story. And this little character that we have Twiggle, who's the cutest thing on earth in my opinion, invites you on this journey to go be brave with them to basically go to an emergency call. And you end up having to get there and get a couple of characters out of the tree. And they ask you to take pictures of your face and all these different emotions. And it's got really awesome music in it and it's fun. You literally created your own mini show, you can then share with your family members. And so my son loves it. And it's fun to play with it. Chris Erwin:Cool. So there's a storyline but you take a photo of like a selfie. And then that goes into one of the characters in the game. Chris Ovitz:Yes, it puts yourself into the story. It's like an interactive story and you're literally putting yourself in it. And then what happens is, is you'll draw the firetruck. You'll draw the skylines, you'll draw the tree, and then it puts it all together into this interactive story. And you get to then watch it. So it's like you're literally creating, it's almost like you're creating the storyboards for the show. And then we magically put it together and the kid feels like they've just created this really awesome interactive story. Chris Erwin:The character's name is Twinkle, the cutest character on Earth as you said, right? Chris Ovitz:Yeah. Chris Erwin:And this is called Fire Rescue? Chris Ovitz:Fire Rescue, yeah. So if you go into the OK Play app, it will be one of the first stories you see. Twiggle is one of our main characters, almost like our guide, and they take you through this adventure. And they do it. We also have Twiggle's Treasure Hunt. And so you go on a pirate adventure to find treasure and you draw the sea monster and you find out the sea monster isn't actually mean. It's actually trying to help you and a lot of really awesome morals in the story. And it all comes from a place of social emotional learning. It's designed by all of our Ph.D.s and advisors that are awesome. Chris Erwin:Oh wow, any of this content, is it licensed from a third party or is this all incubated in house? Chris Ovitz:It's all done in house. So we have an incredibly talented creative team. We're doing all of our animations, all of our own production, all of our own voiceover stuff. Chris Erwin:Wow. Do you ever get involved in any of the voiceovers or any of the brainstorming or anything like that? Chris Ovitz:Thankfully, no. I am not a fan of being on camera, on audio, anything. So hopefully I do you justice today. Chris Erwin:Got it. Have you already raised seed funding for this or was this just funded by the founders? Chris Ovitz:We did raise seed funding. So we have incredible investors. We've actually raised, we closed our series A over the summer. We've raised $11 million to date. Investors like Obvious Ventures, Forerunner, Lego Ventures, which is Lego's investment arm, Collab+Sesame, which is Sesame Workshop's fund with Collaborative Fund, Dreamers, which is Will Smith's fund. We have a ton of incredible investors. Chris Erwin:Awesome. As I think about fundraising, and then you also talking about the documentary about Mr. Rogers, I think about the impassioned plea that he makes to Congress to have funding, I think for PBS and for his program. It's such a beautiful segment in that film. The gentleman who is running the forum is like sold within five to 10 minutes, and Mr. Rogers gets the funding that he needs. So I don't know if that became part of your pitch or you harnessed that energy as you were raising this first round of funding, but I love that anecdote. Chris Ovitz:Absolutely. We love it too. And look, that was a picture of him and a quote from him. It was the first slide of our deck and that hooks everyone. It's very hard to root against a group of people that want to build something as meaningful as Mr. Rogers did. I'm by no means saying we're going to be the next Mr. Rogers but we would definitely try as hard as we can every day to live by his philosophies and build as much of that into our app as we can. Chris Erwin:Got it. So where does OK Play go next? What are you building towards in 2021? Chris Ovitz:It comes back to this staring versus sharing thing. I think we want to get away from this mind numbing, staring kid zombie mode type of content. And we want to build something that's truly interactive. We're building this new media format in which kids are really the star of what they're creating, and lets them create these adventures that they can then share with their family and friends. And it's all rooted in social emotional learning, and teaches kindness and curiosity and empathy and skills that they need to translate into the real world. Chris Ovitz:And I think now more than ever, it's super important. You have so many children at home, that they can't go to birthday parties, that can't interact with other kids, I talk to so many of my friends that have young kids that when this pandemic started, they were just at the age where they were about to start preschool. And so they interact mostly with adults, and then they'll see another small person, another child, and it's almost like they don't even know what to do, they don't have those skills yet. And so they've been deprived of this social interaction. And so if there's anything we can do to help with these skills, I think we're doing a good job. And so that's what I would love to see us accomplish this year is really reaching more families, and just helping parents and helping parents know that it's okay to take a moment, that just because their child is playing for 15 minutes on an app, it's not the end of the world. Not all content is created equal, and I think balance is key. And it's really, really important that parents give themselves a break. Chris Erwin:Cool. All right, so I have that now, to go back a little bit more personally about you. I think this is like at least the third company that you've found in your career. And you have expressed that in certain previous companies that you realized burnout and you knew when you had to kind of change things up. And I know that your wife Ara is also an entrepreneur, has her own business. You're building OK Play. You're also an investor, which we'll talk about a little bit and you have a young son. So do you feel like that you are stretched in the Ovitz household? Chris Ovitz:Yes. Look, a two entrepreneur household is very tough. I have one child, I don't know how people with multiple do it. You definitely make sacrifices, and my wife and I are not going to sacrifice our son for work. We're just not. So we do our best. I think it's made us much, much more efficient human beings. You just have to, there's no time for the nonsense. And so you just have to be really, really good planners. She's brilliant. I'm very lucky to share a household with an entrepreneur that awesome. Chris Erwin:I like that balanced mindset. I think that's absolutely critical. And more entrepreneurs need to assume that. So okay, we're about to get to the rapid fire. But before we do, Chris, why don't you tell us about, it seems that you do some investing on the side. You've done angel investing in your past but I think that there's a new fund that you're a part of. So what is that all about? Chris Ovitz:About 10 years ago, I was fortunate enough to interview at Twitter, and I met Biz Stone. And he's one of the co-founders and I kept in touch with him. We became friends, he ended up advising a couple of my companies. He was on the board of one of them. And he always said that if he ever formalized his angel investing, which by the way, he has one of the most incredible angel portfolios in history, from Slack to Square to Pinterest to BeyondMe, all of these unicorns. And I think that's because of the way he connects with entrepreneurs and how genuine and authentic he is. Chris Ovitz:But anyways, he said if he was ever going to formalize his portfolio into a VC fund, then I would be one of his first phone calls. He held true to that, and invited me to help him build his first investment fund. It's a $200 million fund. We invest in early stage companies that build the future of health, work, wealth, and play. And it's a lot of fun. I get to see incredible entrepreneurs and see how I can help them. I love connecting the dots. I believe that I'm good at connecting the dots that other people don't always see. And I love putting people together, and as I said, building community. And so I like to think of us as more of an investment group as opposed to a fund and just investing in great people. Chris Erwin:Awesome. Chris, I have to say that we've kind of gotten to know one another through the preparation for this podcast and our conversation right now. Something that stands out to me is that it seems that you have this incredible magnetism to you. Because the people that you attract around you too, whether it's launching a new investment fund or creating the founding teams for companies or recruiting someone from an article that you read, you clearly have a very, very special skill of being able to do that. What defines your magnetism? What is it about you that brings people towards your orbit? Chris Ovitz:It's a good question. I've never really thought about it like that and I appreciate you saying that. I think authenticity and just being comfortable with who I am. And that's what people get when they see me. There's nothing, I'm not positioning, trying to be something I'm not. A lot of people are threatened by people smarter than them. I want to be around as many amazingly talented people as I can get my hands on. And I think it's about building real trust and giving people the attention they deserve. And so it really just comes down to being genuine and being a good friend. And I think that builds trust with people. And then, so when you reach out to them, you're able to make things happen, because there's trust. Trust is everything. Chris Erwin:Yeah, I think that's really beautifully said. So cool. All right, so now we're on to the rapid fire round. So Chris, the rules are as follows. I'm going to ask you six questions. The answers are intended to be brief, one to two sentences, could even just be one to two words. Do you understand the rules? Chris Ovitz:I understand the rules. Chris Erwin:Awesome, all right. First one, proudest life moment. Chris Ovitz:Becoming a father. Chris Erwin:Great. What do you want to do less of in 2021? Chris Ovitz:Sitting in front of a computer. Chris Erwin:Okay. And what do you want to do more of? Chris Ovitz:Seeing friends in real life. Chris Erwin:I think many people would say the exact same right now. What one to two things drive your success? Chris Ovitz:Success is relative. But assuming someone thinks I'm successful, then it would be wanting to set the best example I can for my son. Chris Erwin:Very nice. All right, last handful of questions here. Advice for media executives going into 2021. Chris Ovitz:Dust off those social skills. Chris Erwin:What do you mean by that? Chris Ovitz:I mean, we're spending so much time on Zoom and in front of a computer that I think people may have forgotten how to interact with each other in the real world. Chris Erwin:Yeah, hopefully you haven't lost your magnetism ability. Chris Ovitz:I hope not. Chris Erwin:It's your key asset. All right, last couple here. Any future startup ambitions? Chris Ovitz:Always. I have an idea deck, some worse than others, but they're probably more of my future. Chris Erwin:Where do you keep your ideas? Chris Ovitz:Probably shouldn't tell people this but in my head. Chris Erwin:That way people can't access them, right? Chris Ovitz:Very true. But hey, if the idea is something that someone can cannibalize that easily, then it's not a great idea. Chris Erwin:Agreed. All right, last one Chris, this is an easy one. How can people get in contact with you? Chris Ovitz:They can feel free to email me chris@okplay.co. Chris Erwin:Awesome. I really appreciate you being on the podcast today, Chris. This is a lot of fun. Chris Ovitz:Hey, Chris. I appreciate you inviting me on and yeah, I hope people enjoy it. Chris Erwin:Hey, listeners, before you go, one final reminder. We love hearing from all of you. So if you have any thoughts on the show, any ideas for guests or any feedback at all, please email us. You can reach us at tcupod@wearerockwater.com. All right, that's it everybody. Thanks for listening. Chris Erwin:The Come Up is written and hosted by me, Chris Erwin and is a production of RockWater Industries. Please rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts. And remember to subscribe wherever you listen to our show. And if you really dig us, feel free to forward The Come Up to a friend. You can sign up for our company newsletter at wearerockwater.com/newsletter. And you can follow us on Twitter @tcupod. The Come Up is engineered by Daniel Tureck. Music is by Devon Bryant. Logo and branding is by Kevin Zazzali. And special thanks to Andrew Cohen and Mike Booth from the RockWater team.

Chas Lacaillade is the founder and CEO of Bottle Rocket Management. Chas took a big bet on the digital video revolution, and now builds businesses for some of the most exciting creative talent from New Hollywood. We discuss why he left a prestigious talent agency to sell water pumps, Louisiana roadtrips, and how he converted a $5,000 bank loan into a multi-million dollar business. Full episode transcript is below.  Subscribe to our newsletter. We explore the intersection of media, technology, and commerce: sign-up linkLearn more about our market research and executive advisory: RockWater websiteFollow The Come Up on Twitter: @TCUpodEmail us: tcupod@wearerockwater.com--EPISODE TRANSCRIPTChris Erwin:Hi, I'm Chris Erwin. Welcome to The Come Up, a podcast that interviews entrepreneurs and leaders. Chas Lacaillade:I had my Jerry Maguire moment where I called all my clients and said, "Am I your manager? Am I your manager? And if so, this is my new endeavor, I'm going out on my own." It was terrifying. I took out a $5,000 loan from Chase Bank to live, and there was no interest for the first 18 months. Chris Erwin:This week's episode features Chas Lacaillade. Chas took a big bet on the digital video revolution, and now he builds businesses for some of the most exciting creative talent from New Hollywood. Yet Chas's career has a lot of twists and turns, and includes a lot of early disillusionment to be honest, like when he left a prestigious Hollywood talent agency to sell water pumps. But Chas's ambition eventually pays off. A Louisiana road-trip inspires a new career and soon after he turns a $5,000 bank loan into a multi-million dollar business. So Chas is a close friend of mine, and he's known for telling you like it is. It makes for fun listening. All right, let's get into it. Chris Erwin:Quick heads up, that my interview with Chas was recorded back in December and prior to COVID. Chas, welcome to the podcast. Chas Lacaillade:Great being here. Chris Erwin:Before we go through your entire entertainment story which is an impressive one, let's talk about some of your early days. Where did you grow up? Chas Lacaillade:I grew up in Lincoln Park, a neighborhood in Chicago which is very picturesque, very walkable. I attended schools in the neighborhood. All my friends lived in the neighborhood and it was great. I just had a really magical childhood, to be honest. I walked through Lincoln Park to my school, on winter days I'd walk through this enchanting, snow-covered park back home from school, and I'd have lots of time to review what I'd experienced that day, and what was going on in my life, and what I wanted to do. And I think that meditative time was really helpful for me in getting in tune with my thoughts because your teenage years are so frantic, and there's so much insecurity. You know, it took me about 40 minutes to get home probably, or between 30 and 40 minutes to walk home from school, and so- Chris Erwin:"Up hill both ways-" Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Chris Erwin:... as my father used to say. He was also from Chicago- Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Chris Erwin:... which was considered a pretty flat neighborhood overall. Chas Lacaillade:Yeah, and dodging crossfire from enemy combatants. And so, just walking home gave me some contemplative time, it was very therapeutic, that probably a lot of kids don't get. Chris Erwin:So in these meditative moments, were you thinking about your future career and that you were planning to start something, or was it more of like the whimsical child fantasies and fun back in the day? Chas Lacaillade:Well, I was a big reader as a child, so I read a lot of fiction and nonfiction, and I consumed a lot of biographies from basically, the age I could start reading. And biographies on a really wide range of people. So I remember when I was 12, reading Muhammad Ali's biography, and then Ayatollah Khomeini's biography. Chris Erwin:Wow. Chas Lacaillade:Just a real span of people because I was interested in a lot of different points of view, and the more I became exposed to what was out there and the different ways to obtain leadership, and fame, and infamy, and repute, and accomplishment, the more I became fascinated with what was possible if you just created a path for yourself. Chris Erwin:Yeah. Chas Lacaillade:And so, a lot of my thoughts were dedicated just to reviewing what these people who really impressed me, how they got to where they did. And how I could chart a path for myself that would employ my personal interests, that could hopefully some day lead to me being successful and known. Chris Erwin:Through many of our conversations over the years, there's a strong sense that you are highly ambitious, and that you really strive to overcome challenge. And I know that you often share with me, different biographical stories from magazines, something that you're reading in Esquire or GQ, or we will compare notes about Shackleton's journey to the Arctic. Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Yeah. Chris Erwin:And I think these stories really resonate with you. I see this as a precursor to starting Bottle Rocket dating back 15, 20 years. Was there entrepreneurs in your family, your mother and father, siblings? Chas Lacaillade:Touching on what you were saying about these people that I've always been very impressed by, fortunately my parents exposed me to a lot of different ways of life. And I remember visiting William Randolph Hearst's mansion and just being so blown away by the scope of what this guy built, and how he lived, and his lifestyle, and the indoor pool and the outdoor pool. And all the art and architecture that he had imported from around the world, and how he'd customized this lifestyle. And so, I was so thrilled by that ambiance and the glamor of it. You know, how could I not be curious about how he provided this, and how he made this possible for himself? And so that lead me to familiarize myself with his accomplishments. And so once you know who somebody is and how they did it, and in this case he was very entrepreneurial, right? He created a newspaper empire and there's little he wouldn't do in order to achieve success. Chas Lacaillade:And so exposure to things like his mansion, or The Breakers in Rhode Island, and Providence, Rhode Island. I would go tour the Vanderbilt's mansions with my family in Rhode Island too. So just, I got exposure to these really impressive families. And my parents, my mother and father, would tell me how Cornelius Vanderbilt made his fortune, how he created a shipping empire. Or how Randolph Hearst created a newspaper empire. Chris Erwin:It's essentially made these stories accessible to you. Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Chris Erwin:They grounded them in saying, "These are normal people-" Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:... "just like you and I, and so this is attainable if you have the spirit, and the intent, and drive to make it happen." Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:Is that like what you're processing of these stories and exposure? Chas Lacaillade:That's how I internalized it. It was also just like, "This is a pretty fascinating place. It's basically a museum, it's also a house. And it's indicative of a lifestyle that is pretty much bygone." And different people are going to take that in differently, but the way I interpreted the whole experience on all those occasions was like, "This is what's out there. If they did it, you can do it." Chris Erwin:I like that. Instead of looking at it and saying, "Oh, I can never achieve that," and then there's pangs of jealousy and frustration, it's, "Wow, if I hold myself big, there's incredible opportunity in front of me." Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Chris Erwin:So let's fast forward. You find yourself in LA in 2006, and you're starting as an agent trainee at ICM Partners. So, what lead to the decision to join entertainment, overseeing and representing talent? Did you perceive it as, "This is the way to pursue your big ambitions"? Or, "Hey, this is just a key building block in learning, and I have a structured trajectory that I'm planning"? What was that thought process? Chas Lacaillade:Well, I'd always been really enamored with the world of entertainment, and Hollywood, music, they are areas that have fascinated me from a very young age. Consumed movies, and television, and music at a very high volume ever since I could remember, because I had an older brother and sister who could turn me on to different artists, and actors, and directors, and writers. So I felt like that was the path for me, and so basically I started my career out in an advertising agency in New York. Basically, I felt like I was spending a lot of time and effort at making a distraction and an impediment to what people really wanted, which was the TV show or the movie. I didn't want to make the advertisement before the movie, or the advertisement between blocks in the television show, I wanted to make the show or the movie. Chris Erwin:And just clarify for the listener, did you say that you worked in an ad agency in New York prior to ICM in LA? Chas Lacaillade:Yes. So my first job was at an ad agency that was called Euro Rscg, it's now known as Havas. It's like a worldwide advertising conglomerate. Then I worked on the Volvo and Charles Schwab accounts. I produced Volvo's first Super Bowl commercial, featuring Richard Branson. And I took a DVD of that and I sent it to the mail room basically, at ICM, and I got an interview and it worked out. Chris Erwin:And so you were at this precursor to Havas, for under a year? Chas Lacaillade:I was there for two years. Chris Erwin:So then you go to ICM- Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:... likely stars in your eyes, saying, "I don't want to just be the advertisement or the media spot, I want to help actually create the content." Chas Lacaillade:Oh yeah. You know, at ICM they wrapped Woody Allen, and Dr. Seuss estate, all these really luminaries like Halle Berry, Samuel L. Jackson, Guillermo del Toro, really famous directors and screenwriters. And was I so impressed by the luminaries that were represented at ICM, and I thought, "This would be a great place for me to gain experience and learn the ropes of the entertainment business." And it was. Chris Erwin:So the experience was what you expected? Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. You know, obviously you get a dose of reality. When you're young you don't know how hard it's going to be, and all the humbling moments that lie in store for you, and you want success much more quickly than it's likely to happen. And impatience can sometimes just frustrate how you're enjoying and processing things because you want more money, or you want more respect, or you want to be acknowledged, and truthfully, you're just another assistant, or you're just another guy fetching coffee. And you want to be seen as more than that, but until you prove yourself, you're not more than that. You are a means to an end. Chris Erwin:Something that is interesting about the agencies is that they attract ego, and I think it's something that they want. They want people coming in with confidence, with great ambition, yet at the same time there's a clear culture of, when you're there, you're in training mode, you have an incredible amount to learn. So you have to put that ego aside and say, "It's time to be a sponge." It's time to absorb from all these people that have been working for a lot longer than you have, so that you can then learn to be like, start to paint your own way. It seems like there's a unique duality there. Chas Lacaillade:I had a lot of ego and a lot of ambition, and I was humbled very quickly and- Chris Erwin:What was one of those humbling moments that you remember? Chas Lacaillade:I remember I had this really tyrannical boss, and there's no way I would've been able to accomplish what I did, subsequent to working at ICM, without his mentorship, but he used to tell me, "I'm your mentor and I'm your tormentor." Chris Erwin:That's funny. Chas Lacaillade:And he definitely did not go easy on the tormenting part. He'd tell me to do many things simultaneously, to the point where it was untenable. Like, he'd tell me to call a list of people, while composing letters to different clients, while scheduling his next lunch or his next dinner, and all of this stuff he would command me to do at that moment. At that moment. Which is physically impossible, but he didn't have any patience for any other alternative. And he also expected me to "be his brain." So he would be in the middle of conversations, he'd often have lapses of memory and he would snap his finger right before he began a sentence, which he was unsure if he could finish because he didn't know if he could remember the information. Chris Erwin:So, snapping his fingers is like an audio cue [crosstalk 00:11:12]? Chas Lacaillade:He'd snap at me hundreds of times throughout the day. Chris Erwin:No. Chas Lacaillade:So there's your first example of being humbled. He'd be on the phone with a client or a buyer at some studio and he would be embarking on this story, and he would snap at me and I would have to know what the next word in the sentence would be. Chris Erwin:You're expected to anticipate? Chas Lacaillade:Yes. And so he taught me anticipation. He made it crystal clear that if I couldn't anticipate his needs, then there's really no place for me working for him or at the company. You know, really top-tier client services anticipating what the talent is going to need, how the situation's going to present itself, how to navigate really difficult landscapes. And so, yes, it was self-serving for him because I was basically there to make him look good, but at the end of the day if you're a talent representative, you are there to make your talent look good. And so it was great training for that. Chris Erwin:I've heard a lot of the trainees and agents, sometimes they come from a place of fear about assuming the worst, so you always have to prevent or be in defensive mode. Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:But I think the best agents, and this is also good business practice for anyone is, you can also assume the best, and be opportunistic and say, "What's around the corner? What are people not thinking about? What are people not wary of that can be incredibly exciting for my talent? Can be incredibly exciting for my business?" As well as, "What is a major threat? What is a risk?" And I think, again, having that duality's important versus those that just solely come at it from a place of fear. Chas Lacaillade:Right. Exactly. And those are the people that succeed and rise most quickly, are the people who don't adhere to just status quo, and there's very few of those people in any industry. I remember being at a meeting and somebody saying, "You know which client at William Morris generates the most revenue?" And everybody thought it was Quentin Tarantino or Bruce Willis, and the person who posed the question said, "Emeril Lagasse." And he said, "This chef was unknown to most of the world five years ago, become a complete juggernaut, and has got all these lines of revenue. And the person who discovered him from William Morris and who's been helping forge opportunities for him, they're booking more revenue for him than anybody else." Chris Erwin:Wow. Chas Lacaillade:And that was an eye-opening moment for me, and that's something I really took close note of. And I thought to myself, "How can I go outside the confines of what everybody else is doing, and forge a path that will allow me to ascend higher?" I only had scant knowledge of him until that moment, and then of course first thing I did after that meeting was look him up. And then, "Who is my Emeril Lagasse? What is the avenue that's being unexplored right now?" And of course you're in a peer group that's incredibly ambitious, and incredibly intent on being successful, and oftentimes not generous with their expertise of information because any information that you get that is valuable, that diminishes their position and their value. And you're as valuable as what you know in that business. Chris Erwin:When you are entering markets where there is massive awareness about the opportunity, or where everyone is talking about it, there is less head room to grow into. Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:I think there's less profit and revenue to be created. And so it's time to be contrarian. It's also time to say, "You know, what is maybe not popular?" Or, "What is a risky bet, but that I'm going to take with the right amount of risk profile and I'm going to go forth?" And I think it's people and leaders that have that mindset, they usually have the biggest winnings. Chas Lacaillade:Right. But then, a lot of Hollywood's very traditional. The irony is that it's where all this cutting-edge entertainment and expression is generated, but at the same time the leadership and the hierarchy doesn't always encourage asymmetric thinking. And so, in fact, most people are incredibly defensive and incredibly insecure, and are adverse to taking risks. So, the only way you're going to be successful is by taking risk, and the least likely way to be acknowledged is by being different, so it's a struggle. Chris Erwin:You were at ICM Partners for a few years and then you left, what was the reason for leaving ICM? Chas Lacaillade:You know, I basically got a point there where, the WGA strike of 2008 was really tough, and that stagnated wages and it slowed everything down in the entertainment industry, in terms of opportunity and promotions. And you get to a certain point where you're like, "What am I doing to do with my life? I don't want to be just another person walking the halls here, slowly inching my way forward." And the culture at that time, it was just like, "Everybody, do what they're told." You know, that's pervasive culture, regardless of where you are. After four years of grinding and playing by the rules that had been laid out, it felt like it was time to just explore a different way of life. Chris Erwin:So, explore a different way of life? Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Chris Erwin:So that seems to capture maybe a lot of things that happened over the next few years? Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Yeah. So I'd always been very environmentally conscious, and really interested in sustainability and renewable energy, and I thought, "Maybe I'm not attaining the success I had always envisioned for myself at this stage in my life." Chris Erwin:Going back to the earlier part of our conversations where you're visiting the Hearst Castle- Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:... and learning about the Vanderbilts, and saying, "Wow, there's all this potential." Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:So you take a moment after a few years into our career, and you realize, "I don't have the success that I want." How did that feel? Chas Lacaillade:At that time I was 30 years old and I feel like if you're sane, you start to question yourself. I'm still a confident person, I'm still a very driven person, but I was beginning to wonder if my confidence and my drive were going to necessarily yield an impressive outcome, or any sort of meaningful outcome. Like, maybe I was just going to be just another guy locked into a 9:00 to 5:00 subsistence life? And maybe I wasn't as impressive and driven as I thought I was? Chris Erwin:Did that scare you? Chas Lacaillade:Oh, yeah. Definitely. That's a very unique kind of terror because it's not fleeting. It's not momentary. It's ongoing, doesn't leave you even when you sleep. It's with you when you're awake. It's with you when you're asleep. It changes your demeanor. It changes your outlook. It changes how people see you because you're questioning your very essence. You don't know if you're capable or, at that point, I didn't know if I was capable of doing what I always thought I was capable of. And so basically, at the same time I wasn't going to stop. You know, the only way forward was to push on. Chris Erwin:I think what you're getting on that's interesting is that, your planned trajectory and your fast rise had become part of your identity, that's how you knew yourself. And all of a sudden you're saying, "There could almost be a paradigm shift in my life. And if this is not my identity, then who am I-" Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:... "what's my purpose?" Chas Lacaillade:You know, I was used to being identified as keen, and hardworking, and talented, and then I had to look at myself in the mirror and say, "Well, if I'm those things, then why am I 30 years old and have a few hundred bucks in the bank?" Because people with those characteristic generally have a little bit more to show for them. And so I figured, okay, I'm running into a bit of a wall here, in my life and in my career, I need to do something where I can hopefully apply my drive and get something more out of it. And so, basically I got a job at a renewable energy company- Chris Erwin:Change industry's entirely. Chas Lacaillade:Change industry's entirely. And all these friends and family who'd seen you really work hard at something, in my case was in Hollywood, they say, "Good. Great." You know, "Happy for you," but you detect a little bit of doubt in their voice and you can't help but be unsettled by that. And you're 30 years old, I was 30 and I was like, "Oh my god. I'm basically starting from the bottom." Chris Erwin:Yeah. And I think that could also be a downward spiral where you think that there's doubt in your peer's voice about you, or their thoughts about you, but is that reality or is that just your perception and you're whipping yourself? Chas Lacaillade:I think it was reality, I think people were skeptical. But I would also say that, as you get older you realize that everybody's insecure about themselves, and so that could also be their lack of belief that they could do it. And so when they hear that you're going to switch fields, and you're going to do something completely different, in some cases what they're thinking is, "Well, I can never do that, so how's he going to do it?" Or, "I don't know anybody who's done that, how's he going to do it?" And what you need to take faith in is that, look, if you're determined and you have a game plan, it doesn't matter if they don't know anybody who's done it or if they can't do it, you can do it. Everything is doable. If there's a problem, there's a solution, so that's the way I approach things. Chas Lacaillade:And I got a job at a renewable energy company based out of Orange County, it was in Costa Mesa, and I had to commute from West LA to Costa Mesa five days a week. Chris Erwin:Wow. Chas Lacaillade:I mean, my office was essentially a garage in Costa Mesa, I mean, it was dark. Chris Erwin:So you show up- Chas Lacaillade:Literally and figuratively. And my peers were nothing like ... I wasn't interacting with these entertainment luminaries who are ... Tom Cruise wasn't on the phone. It was just basically old guys who were selling water pumps to plumbing warehouses, so talk about a total shift in gears. And my job was head of national sales, so when I wasn't in the office I was meeting with different plumbing supply warehouses and distributors throughout the nation, and getting them to carry our product, which I did very well. I increased the distribution and footprint of the product dramatically, like over 10 times. And I drove sales for this company, and I established a reputation with a group of people that I never thought I would know. Chas Lacaillade:And I say that I could not of started Bottle Rocket without my time working at ICM for that really hard boss, and I also couldn't have started Bottle Rocket had I not been head of sales for this company selling a product. It's a lot easier to sell a glamorous movie star to a studio that already wants to work with her, than it is to sell another water pump to a plumbing warehouse that has to carry it on the shelf. Chris Erwin:Did you believe that you learned these sales skills from any of your peers or the leadership at this company, or did you just have to figure it out on the go? Chas Lacaillade:You have to be open to your environment. You have to pick up cues. You have to see what people respond to. You have to read and listen to people who are experts in the field. So, there's a lot of sales manuals I read, and techniques I tried to pick and employ. Chris Erwin:Any sales seminars, weekend seminars, courses? Chas Lacaillade:No, I didn't do those so much, but obviously YouTube videos. And sales is so much about people and your relationship to people, and luckily I had developed an ability to really relate to a broad array of people, and broad range of people. And if you lead with sincerity and humor, generally, then at least you can open up somebody's receptivity to whatever message you want to convey. Chris Erwin:And the fact that you were looking at YouTube videos back then, it's just interesting to think about where you then went next. Chas Lacaillade:Right, isn't that funny. Yeah. Chris Erwin:Because you ended up at Fullscreen, but did you go right to Fullscreen, a multi-channel network, after selling water pumps, or was there another stop in between? Chas Lacaillade:Basically, I'd been working at this restaurant in West Hollywood all the while, just to pick up extra revenue. So I was definitely hustling, hustling hard to made ends meet. Chris Erwin:So you're full-time and part-time work in this period? Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. I had an epiphany when I was on a sales trip to Louisiana, and I was driving around the Bayou of Louisiana with this manufacturer's rep who was my conduit in Louisiana, distributing the pumps, and he said, "What did you used to do before you were selling pumps?" And I told him about my career at ICM. And he said, "Hold on. You and I are driving around Louisiana in 95 degree heat, trying to sell friggen water pumps, and you used to talk to movie stars and screen writers? What the hell is your problem?" He's like, "I would give up everything to start at the company that you left." He's like, "If you can leave this and go back to that ... And if you don't love this, which nobody does ..." Chas Lacaillade:He's like, "This is a means to the end. I put food on the table for my family, myself. I've got a daughter and this is how I pay for my life. You don't have any of those commitments. You're not married. You're single. You're young enough to go back to it." He's like, "If you love it like it sounds like you do, go back." This guy's name was Dustin [Ubray 00:23:08], shout out to Dustin Ubray. Chris Erwin:Thanks, Dustin Ubray, for pointing Chas on his new path. Chas Lacaillade:Yeah, and- Chris Erwin:So you hear this- Chas Lacaillade:And I'm like- Chris Erwin:... and what goes through your head? Chas Lacaillade:And I'm realizing like, you know what? I'm always going to care a lot about the environment and sustainability, but the real truth is, this is not the life I envisioned or that I want. And I was open to it and I gave it a go, but I don't see this unfolding in a way that's going to make me happy. And it's always important to explore things and really give them a sincere look, but if it doesn't feel right, you cannot be reluctant to pull the ripcord. And a lot of people are scared of starting over, and so much of success boils down to your ability to start from scratch and just persist. Chris Erwin:So in that moment, did you feel any regret where you were like, "Oh my god, I made this big change in my career and it seems that it was off to the wayside, and now I've got to get back on track"? Or did you interpret it as, "Wow, this was a really special moment, I learned a lot, and now I'm going to go back into entertainment, find a new opportunity space, but I'm further energized to do it"? Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Chris Erwin:What were you feeling? Chas Lacaillade:Well at that point, so now I'm 32, and I'm like, "Okay, the sand's going through the hourglass on me, and I'm going to do another pivot to I don't know where. I don't know who's going to hire me." And I've got some explaining to do next time I sit down at an interview because I've got some accomplishments under my belt, but they're two wildly different and divergent fields. So people are going to be curious, some people are going to be skeptical, and I'm going to have to prove myself in the room and I'm going to really have to prove myself ... if somebody gives me a chance, I'm going to really have to bust my arse for them to have faith that they made the right decision. Chris Erwin:But you had confidence that you were going to be able to do that? Chas Lacaillade:I had confidence I was going to be able to do it, but back to what we were discussing with people not wanting to take risks, HR departments are not known for being open-minded. They want to look at that resume and they want to see identifiable qualities that will give them insurance if they make a hire that doesn't work out. And so, I didn't have this, and so what I depended on was getting in the room. It was like, if I get in the room, I've got a strong chance at getting the job, but just getting in the room is tough. Chris Erwin:How did you get in the room for Fullscreen? Chas Lacaillade:I had a- Chris Erwin:Did you pick them or did they pick you? Chas Lacaillade:I had a really close friend from ICM who was best friends with the head of production at Fullscreen, and Fullscreen was a startup, and they had- Chris Erwin:Yeah, what was Fullscreen, for our audience? Chas Lacaillade:Fullscreen was a multi-channel network known as an MCN, which is basically, Fullscreen's raison d'etre was "we are going to collect a broad range of YouTube channels, and sell advertising against those YouTube channels." That's a really broad overview of what they did. And so the money that Fullscreen made was, the revenue source, was advertising on YouTube. Chris Erwin:Got it. Chas Lacaillade:That's how they made money. They had a few dozen employees. They had some venture capital investment from Peter [inaudible 00:25:59]. So yeah, a good friend of mine knew they had production there, had a production. Put my resume in the mix for a role, I went in to interview, they needed somebody just to work with these YouTuber's. I had a background in entertainment and I really, really emphasized that. Chris Erwin:Yeah. Chas Lacaillade:And my background was legitimate, and it was quality, and I had worked with a lot of people, and I had good references. Chris Erwin:So you had ICM on your resume- Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Chris Erwin:... that's instant pedigree in entertainment. Chas Lacaillade:I had references, and if they wanted to call anybody, that a lot of people liked me or were fond of me, and my work ethic was there. So at that point, a lot of people from the traditional entertainment world didn't respect YouTube, and didn't see it as a viable commercial avenue. Chris Erwin:And why do you think that was? Chas Lacaillade:They basically regarded it as a distraction, as not a competitor to TV, and radio, and film. And just for very low cost entertainment that people didn't pay for. Chris Erwin:Yeah. One of the things that I heard myself, because I was also part of the multi-channel network eco system where I first started, big frame, a wish like Fullscreen had, venture capital backing, and then also had funding from a Google originals channel program, from Google itself, and then on to AwesomenessTV. And from a lot of traditional Hollywood they would say, "These digitally native creators, they're not used to hearing the word, no. They just had this unique moment in time where they started publishing videos on YouTube or a social channel, and then they got famous." And it felt very strongly that unless you were in the annals of these MCNs, or working with these next-gen talent, you don't understand the amount of hard work, the amount of time and the commitment to the audiences that they created for themself, and the brands that they created for themself. So, I hear you on that. Chris Erwin:Chas, you're at Fullscreen and this is the job that you had right before founding Bottle Rocket, and remind me what was your role while you were at Fullscreen? Chas Lacaillade:I was the head of talent sales. Chris Erwin:Was this a division that you actually founded at the company? Chas Lacaillade:Yes. So basically what happened at Fullscreen was, I was hired to be a "talent manager," and we had a sales department and division at Fullscreen. You know, I was talking to the talent, I was working with these YouTubers. This is early, this is 2013. They would get offers to promote products for 5,000 or 2,500 bucks, and the big YouTuber's case like $10,000, and I said, "You know, I've got experience in talent representation, let me secure and negotiate these opportunities for you." So I close a deal for a talent to promote a product, and sales caught wind of what I was doing, the sales department, and they said, "Listen, it's not your role to do any sort of sales activity here at Fullscreen. We are the division and the department that's dedicated to that. And the threshold for any deals that our talent participates in is $50,000. If it's not $50,000 or above, it's not worth Fullscreen's time. You know, if it's less than 50K, we pass on it." Chris Erwin:So, they're telling you to stay in your lane- Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:... and here's your lane by the way, what this looks like, and let us do our thing? Chas Lacaillade:And if it's less than 50K, decline. And I said, "Well, there's a lot of money between $1 and $50,000, we're leaving a lot of money on the table, and that's really important for our clients, that's how they pay their bills." And they said, "Listen, if it gets to 50K, hand it over to us and we'll take care of it." Kind of a pat on the head. And I found that incredibly shortsighted, and I was not deterred for a nanosecond. And I- Chris Erwin:Yeah, let's focus on that for a second. So, not deterred. So, other people might hear that feedback, get really frustrated, but then just say, "Okay, I've been told to stay in my lane, this is what I'm going to do." But you did not react like that. Was it potentially a catalyst for you? Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. No, it absolutely was. So I'm like, "I know how to do this. I see the opportunity here. These people are really creative, they have really large audiences. They've got a really special unique relationship with that audience, and this is something that nobody's doing, so I'm going to do it." And I went up to the business affairs office. I was on the second floor and I said, "Please make me a two-page template that I can repeat and just swap out names, and print out information." They made a two-page deal template for me, and I proceeded to create my own world basically, and owned a division, an army of one, where I would source a deal, secure and negotiate the deal, and close it, and invoice for it, and Fullscreen's 10% would just go to Fullscreen's accounting department. And the sale division didn't like that, but I was providing a service to all the talent that was in the network, that became undeniable. Chris Erwin:Now you're running around as a team of one- Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:... was this exciting for you, while also- Chas Lacaillade:Yeah, absolutely. Chris Erwin:I mean, it must have been awkward at the same time because then within the same walls of the building, there's people frustrated with your behavior, yet you're like, "Wow, I just found this goldmine and I'm going after them." Chas Lacaillade:Yeah, I didn't care about them. You know, they weren't my friends and I wasn't impressed by them professionally. I didn't think that they were good at their jobs. I didn't think they knew their product. To be an effective salesperson you have to know our product, and none of these people watched YouTube, none of them had relationships with the YouTubers that they were tasked with selling. Chris Erwin:Got it. Chas Lacaillade:To work in this space, you have to be able to pick up the phone and call the talent and say, "I've got this opportunity for you, is this exciting to you? How would you integrate this product into your content?" And you have to have a conversation with them. And if you don't any sort of rapport with that talent, then good luck. And so, I had developed a rapport with this talent. I knew how advertising worked. I could speak that language very fluidly, given my experience at the ad agency in Manhattan. I also knew how to deal with talent via my experience at ICM. I knew sales, via my experience at the renewable energy company. Chris Erwin:It's like all this is coming together. Chas Lacaillade:So all these three really separate experiences unified in this really elegant tapestry, that set me apart, made me unique from my peers at Fullscreen, and allowed me to really confidently stake out my claim, and so that's what I did. At this point I'm 32 years old. Had I been 25, I might've been a little bit more intimidated. But because I knew what I was doing, I had a very clear vision for the future and how I was going to use my skillset to drive value and create value for the company, I was able to rebuff all the feeble pleas and objections that were being posed by my peers who were threatened. Chris Erwin:Did this moment feel like a very unique inflection point where all my past career experience, my capabilities, my learnings, my mindset, it's like, "This is happening now in my early 30s." Going back to that identity of "the world is my oyster." Right? Chas Lacaillade:Mm-hmm (affirmative). Chris Erwin:It's like what you were thinking when you were in high school in your early days. Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:And did you feel like in this moment it's like, "This is it"? Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. So it did feel like that, and I felt like, "Look, the money's not big now, but everything has to start from somewhere." And also, I was synthesizing all of those biographies I'd read of Sam Walton starting out Walmart with just a Five and Dime store here, or then he built to three "Five and Dime stores in Arkansas and Memphis, and these outposts that were in these rinky-dink towns, but no one else was building there. And what I felt was, I'm building stores where no one else is, and I'm going to get customers that no one else is going to get. And by the time that everybody wakes up, I'm going to have more stores than anyone else. And so I moved very quickly and I thought, "Look, I don't know where this is going to go, but this is something that's valuable, and interesting, and engaging, and I'm developing a reputation internally as somebody who's got a clear point of view." And people are attracted to and drawn to someone with a point of view and an idea on how to create value. Chris Erwin:It's clear that you are no longer at Fullscreen. Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:You now are at a company that you founded, Bottle Rocket Management. Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:When did you found Bottle Rocket? Chas Lacaillade:So AT&T bought Fullscreen in 2015, and at that point Fullscreen was not intent on being in the talent representation business and I was. And I had my Jerry Maguire moment where I called all my clients and said, "Am I your manager? Am I your manager? And if so, this is my new endeavor, I'm going out on my own." Chris Erwin:Was that scary to do that? Chas Lacaillade:It was terrifying. I took out a $5,000 loan from Chase Bank, and there was no interest for the first 18 months. Chris Erwin:And what was that loan for? Chas Lacaillade:To live. So- Chris Erwin:Pay rent, food- Chas Lacaillade:Pay rent, my rent was $1,200 a month, so I figured I could get by for a quarter, three months- Chris Erwin:Wow. Chas Lacaillade:... if I just had one meal a day, didn't do anything on the weekend, no bars or entertainment, or movies. Basically, ate one meal a day, and paid my internet bill, and paid my rent, I could get by for three months. Chris Erwin:So this is extreme focus. Chas Lacaillade:Yep. Chris Erwin:Your job during these three months is, I got basic financing in place and now I'm going to build a company, and it's going to win. And you have your horse blinders on? Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Chris Erwin:What happens over those three months? Chas Lacaillade:And so, I was able to pay the $5,000 back within 45 days- Chris Erwin:Wow. Chas Lacaillade:... and had no debt, and I'd closed enough deals that I knew I was going to make enough money to live in that year, in 2015. So, Bottle Rocket started March 1st, 2015 and all the clients I represented at Fullscreen formally, decided that they wanted to line up with me and I built a business. So from a one-bedroom apartment in Venice, I just sat there and called people all day. Chris Erwin:You knew 45 days in, you had something? Chas Lacaillade:Yes. Chris Erwin:You look at your business now, the business that you have from a revenue point of view, and volume point of view, is a lot larger than a lot of other next-gen management companies. What was that next inflection point where you're like, "Okay, I don't just have something here, I have something really special"? Chas Lacaillade:I think it's when I started needing to bring on staff. You know, I'd been doing everything by myself. Chris Erwin:And when was that? Chas Lacaillade:It was 2017, and now we've got a staff of five, including myself. You know, what I'm really thrilled about it how busy everybody is, and how the environment feels really entrepreneurial, really light. I feel like if you have a sense of lightness within the company, and joy, that people are going to put forth discretionary effort, they're going to give you that extra ... whether it's talent, or whether it's the buyer, or whether it's your own colleague, if they know that you're coming from a place of reason and you're a good person, you're just going to get more out of everything and everybody. Now, there's a lot of challenging encounters, there's times when points of view collide and you still have to be firm, and you have to have faith that your position is legitimate. And perhaps somebody wants something from you or from your client that is unreasonable, that's where the challenge is. How do I create customer delight and value for this person, whilst still maintaining my position? Chris Erwin:As you think about how you energize in your business, and you continually refine your leadership and your management philosophy, how do you do that? Is it through reading? Do you have like a mastermind's group? How do you come into your business every day and push yourself to be better for your clients? Chas Lacaillade:Personally for myself, you've got to nurse your mind with new points of view, and you've got to read, and you've got to stay current. Personally, I read the Wall Street Journal, which is not exactly cutting-edge technique. Chris Erwin:While on the bike at the Bay Club? Chas Lacaillade:Yep. Yep, I read the Wall Street Journal every day. One of my professors at USC Business School said, "If you want to be smarter, read The Wall Street Journal every day." Very simple piece of advice and I took it to heart, and I feel like it's very helpful. You know, basically I want to get information from places that aren't the internet. You're definitely a more well-rounded individual if you're not just sighting whatever was on Apple News that day. So I read the newspaper every day. I read fiction and nonfiction. You've got to keep your vocabulary relevant and sharp, and your mind dynamic, and reading different pieces of information and literature, it helps you do that. Because so much of being interesting to others, is being interested in what other people are doing and how the world's working. And so, if I'm interesting to my peers and people that I want to do business with, then that's already a head start in the right direction. And so, that's how I keep it fresh. Chris Erwin:You raise a good point because if you're just reading the same industry pubs that everyone's reading, which it's good to be current, but if you're just in Variety, and Hollywood Reporter, and Tubefilter all day, you're not giving your mind space to breathe. And so when you say, "Mind, body, spirits," so it's out of being an avid reader, how do you also energize your body and your spirit? Chas Lacaillade:You know, sometimes I surf, as you know. I play soccer at a rec sports league. I play basketball with some friends occasionally. I'm very active, it's just important to me to be out there moving. And the spirit and the body are very closely linked, so I feel like if I'm running or playing a sport, then my spirit is being nourished. Chris Erwin:I'm not sure if you're going to enjoy me sharing this story, but yes, Chas and I, we have skied together many times at Sundance and Park City. We've also surfed many times here in LA. And I will say, I think the last time that we went and surfed at Malibu at Second Point, Chas was really excited to get in the water, he hadn't been in in a bit. As we're walking to the beach, I just look at his surfboard and I'm like, "Okay, there's normally three fins on a surfboard, but I only see two on yours, Chas. What's going on?" You're like, "Yeah, it's immaterial, don't worry about it." I'm like, "Okay," thinking you need three fins, but all good. Then we get to the beach and Chas says, he's like, "This wetsuit is so uncomfortable, it's so tight in all these weird places. What's going on here?" I'm like, "Is this a new wetsuit? You've had it before, right?" He's like, "Yeah. No, it's the same one, but this is just weird." Chris Erwin:I thought to myself and I was like, "All right, I remember a similar conversation the last time we surfed." And then I look over at Chas, right before I say it, Chas says it, he goes, "I think this wetsuit's on backwards." And so the suit was on backwards, but what I loved was that instead of Chas being like, "Oh, I'm going to go walk back to the car and change it," or, "I have to go get another fin," you were just like, "I'm getting in the water. I'm fine. You know, I don't care what people think, let's go," and we went right into it. And I think that was a great reflection of how you approach life- Chas Lacaillade:Yeah. Chris Erwin:... and business, and friendships. You're just like, "I'm doing what I'm doing, and I'm happy with it-" Chas Lacaillade:The wetsuit- Chris Erwin:... "and I don't care what anyone else thinks." Chas Lacaillade:The wetsuit being on backwards is not going to change the waves. Chris Erwin:Yeah, exactly. Chas Lacaillade:The board's there, the wave's there, I'm here. All the necessary elements for me surfing are present, so ... I was in the water and some dude's like, "Your wetsuit's on backwards." I was like, "I'm clear on that. I know that." I think I spaced out in the moment, I think I was caught up in conversation. Hadn't had my caffeine dose and idiotically put my wetsuit on backwards, but then I was just like, "Ah, you know what?-" Chris Erwin:Maybe it's a reflection- Chas Lacaillade:... "It's not going to slow me down." Chris Erwin:You're so in the moment and you're so present, you didn't even know your wetsuit was on backwards. You know, so maybe that's a good thing, maybe more people need to have that happen to them. All right, so before we get into our rapid fire round, last question on Bottle Rocket. What are some of your 2020 goals for Bottle Rocket and the team? What do you look forward to? Chas Lacaillade:I want to develop relationships with new buyers that we haven't worked with previously, that's really important to me. You've got to keep exploring opportunity with the marketplace and developing new relationships. And then, definitely signing new talent that's exciting and dynamic, and that's going to raise and elevate the perception of Bottle Rocket. And hopefully growing the Bottle Rocket team, so that I continue to have peers that inspire me and feel energized to come to work. Chris Erwin:When we talk about new talent, because we were talking a bit before this, you're not just a digital talent management company, you're next-gen. To prove that point out, you've signed traditional talent, you've signed also writers, you've diversified across your entertainment roster. Which I think is great and it's interesting to see how when you have that diversity of talent, they can work and collaborate with one another- Chas Lacaillade:Right. Chris Erwin:... which really fuels your own internal business. But are there any certain types of talent that you are specifically seeking out in the new year? Chas Lacaillade:What I want to identify and what I'd love to represent, are people with really unique points of view and unique skillsets. YouTube, there's a lot of derivative content on YouTube, and herd mentality is pervasive in all forms and genres of entertainment and media. But when you really strike gold is when you've got that person who galvanizes an audience because of who they are and how they see the world, and how they interact with the world. The Will Smith's of the world, ELiza Koshy, Ellen DeGeneres, Oprah. And so you want to find that person or people who have a magnetism about them that's undeniable. Chris Erwin:Well, we wish you a very prosperous 2020. Chas Lacaillade:Thank you. Thank you. Chris Erwin:So, we'll go into the closing rapid fire questions, how's that sound? Chas Lacaillade:Great. Chris Erwin:All right. So these can be just quick, two to three sentence answers. If you want to be even more brief, we're open to that. Looking back on your career, what would you say your single proudest moment and accomplishment is to date? Chas Lacaillade:The day I started Bottle Rocket Management, March 1st, 2015. Chris Erwin:What do you want to do less and more of in 2020? Let's start with less. Chas Lacaillade:Worry. Worry, there's no form of progress when you're contemplating what's going to go wrong, or whatever may happen will adversely affect you. You've just got to believe. Chris Erwin:Rapid fire follow-up to that, what do you worry about the most? Chas Lacaillade:Delivering for my clients and my team. Chris Erwin:What do you want to do more of in 2020? Chas Lacaillade:Well, I definitely want my team to feel inspired and really excited to be at Bottle Rocket. And I want them to have personal wins, so that they feel like it's not just a company where they work for me, it's where they work for themselves and they're developing their own reputations. Chris Erwin:Entrepreneurial advice. What one to two personal characteristics do you think have primarily driven your success? Chas Lacaillade:Say, persistence. Persistence is definitely the main identifiable characteristic that's helped me. And humility, just accepting that you're going to have to prove yourself and people aren't going to hand you the biggest, juiciest opportunities off the bat. And so, you have to be humble and prove yourself. Chris Erwin:We talk about persistence a lot, where there's ebbs and flows in the business cycles and your own individual business, and with your team, but if you just are always showing up everyday, there are going to be these incredible moments for you to take advantage of. But if you're not showing up, it's not going to happen. Last few questions here. How do you best take advantage of things you can't control? Chas Lacaillade:I think you've just got to be clear. You've just got to figure out what your position is and how you see things. Articulate that to whomever is necessary, and be open-minded. Chris Erwin:Okay, last two. Quick shot advice for media professionals going into 2020? Chas Lacaillade:Try to schedule as many meetings with people that you're curious about, and want to meet and want to know, and sit down with them wherever they are, and make yourself available. Chris Erwin:Last question. How can people get in contact with you, Chas, the CEO and founder of Bottle Rocket Management? Chas Lacaillade:My email address is chas@bottlerocketmanagement.com, spelled out. Chris Erwin:We'll also include that in the show notes. Chas Lacaillade:Excellent. Chris Erwin:Well, this has been a delight, Chas. Great to have you in today. Chas Lacaillade:Thank you. Chris Erwin:See you around at the next surf sess. Chas Lacaillade:Right on. Chris Erwin:Wow, I really enjoyed that conversation with Chas. Like I said in the beginning, he is a total straight shooter and tells you like it is, and that really came across. I don't know if you guys felt this, but when he started talking about founding Bottle Rocket and leaving Fullscreen, in the room you could see and you could feel his energy just ramping. It was exciting. I thought that was a pretty special moment in our conversation. The excitement of an entrepreneur. So a few quick things on your radar, our next podcast will feature Christian Baesler, the President of Complex Media. He is a young media savant, with a very impressive career track record. Fun facts about Christian, he was born east of the Berlin Wall, and in the same week that the week came down. Pretty incredible. And when he was right out of college at a big international media company, he was tasked with overseeing a digital division, and they needed a digital website network to be built, Christian just built it himself. Impressive stuff. Chris Erwin:Second thing on your radar, listeners, is that our company RockWater, will be hosting a live stream media and selling conference in 2021. Likely in the first quarter in March, we don't know exactly what it's going to look like yet, but we will bring together great speakers, good programming, and we're looking for people who want to get involved. So if you're interested, you can email us at TCUpod@wearerockwater.com. Stay tuned for that. All right, that's it. Thanks all for listening. Chris Erwin:The Come Up is written and hosted by me, Chris Erwin, and is a production of RockWater Industries. Please rate and review this show on Apple Podcast. And remember to subscribe, wherever you listen to our show. And if you really dig us, feel free to forward The Come Up to a friend. You can sign up for our company newsletter at wearerockwater.com/newsletter. And you can follow us on Twitter @TCUpod. The Come Up is engineered by Daniel Tureck. Music is by Devon Bryant. Logo and branding is by Kevin Zazzali. And special thanks to Andrew Cohen and Sean Diep from the RockWater team.