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He was endorsed by Oprah, interviewed by Larry King, and was selling his workshops for tens of thousands of dollars. After promising health, wealth, and happiness to his followers, in the end, all this grifter gave them was a hard sales pitch, injury, and death. This week's episode is Sweat Lodge Guru James Arthur Ray, Part 2.Click here for this week's show notes.Click here to sign up for our Patreon and receive hundreds of hours of bonus content.Please click here to leave a review and tell us what you think of the show.Please consider supporting the companies that support us!-Remove the guesswork with Ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout, no thinking, everything planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit/CREEPY and take a quick quiz to find your perfect Ladder plan. Use my link and get a free 7-day trial with NO credit card, and $10 off your first month if you join.-To grab your PAKA hoodie, go to https://www.PAKAAPPAREL.COM.-Upgrade your sleep with Boll & Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at BollAndBranch.com/creepy with code creepy.-Head to MyAlloy.com and use the code SINISTER for a fully customized treatment plan and unlimited messaging with your doctor. Plus 20 percent off your first order today! This code is valid on products only.

When a massive financial scandal erupted in Omaha in the late 1980s, allegations soon followed that politically connected power players were involved in something far darker: an interstate child sex-trafficking ring filled with ritual abuse, blackmail, and murder. Were the most horrifying claims surrounding the Franklin scandal products of Satanic Panic—or did investigators stumble onto a very real conspiracy that powerful people desperately wanted buried? Merch and more: www.badmagicproductions.com Timesuck Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious PrivateFacebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch-related questions/problems: store@badmagicproductions.com (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard? Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast.Sign up through Patreon, and for $5 a month, you get access to the entire Secret Suck catalog (295 episodes) PLUS the entire catalog of Timesuck, AD FREE. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The lessons I carried away from September 11 did not begin that day, and they certainly did not end there. In this solo episode, I reflect on how my parents taught me not to accept the limits others placed on blindness, how my guide dogs taught me about trust and teamwork, and how September 11 confirmed so much of what I already believed about fear, leadership, change, and possibility. I share why I work hard not to worry about things I cannot control, why I believe we can never truly go back to “normal,” and why strong teams are built through trust rather than control. I also challenge some of the ways we think about blindness and disability, because different does not mean less capable. I hope these lessons help you think differently about fear, change, leadership, and what it really means to live with an unstoppable mindset. Highlights: 00:46 – Why the lessons of September 11 began long before that day. 08:56 – How Michael learned that blindness is not the real barrier. 17:13 – Why focusing on what you can control can reduce fear. 24:28 – Why getting back to “normal” is not always the answer. 32:30 – What guide dogs taught Michael about trust and teamwork. 1:01:37 – Why disability does not mean a lack of ability. About the Host: Michael Hingson, blind since birth, was born in Chicago to sighted parents who believed in raising their son with a can-do attitude. Treated like all other children in his family, Michael rode a bike did advanced math in his head and learn to read and write – Braille that is! Michael's family relocated to the warm Palmdale area of California when he was five years old. It is here that Hingson had his first adventure with Guide Dogs for the Blind and received his first guide dog. He later went to college receiving a bachelor's and master's degree in Physics along with a secondary teaching credential from the University of California at Irvine. Michael then enjoyed a nearly-30-year career working for high tech companies spending most of his time in management roles. Michael Hingson's life changed dramatically on September 11, 2001 when he and his guide dog, Roselle, escaped from the 78th floor of Tower One in the World Trade Center moments before it collapsed. Soon after, Michael and Roselle were thrust into the international limelight where Michael began to share his unique survival story and 9-11 lessons of trust, courage, heroism, and teamwork. Mike has served as The National Public Affairs Director for one of the largest Nonprofit organizations in the nation: Guide Dogs for the Blind; He has served as the vice president of the National Association of Guide Dog Users; Michael has held a seat on the Fort Worth Lighthouse for the Blind. He is the chair of the board of directors of the Earle Baum Center for the Blind  and is the vice chair of the Colorado Center for the Blind; Michael is The National Ambassador for the Braille Literacy Campaign of the National Federation of the Blind. Until October 2019 he worked as the CEO of the Do More Foundation, the non-profit arm of Aira Tech Corp, a manufacturer of assistive technology which makes a revolutionary visual interpreter for blind people. In January 2021 Mike joined accessiBe as its Chief Vision Officer to help advance the company goal of making the entire internet fully inclusive. He held this position through June of 2026. He is the author of the #1 New York Times Best Seller: “Thunder dog –The True Story of a Blind Man, a Guide Dog & the Triumph of Trust” – selling over 2.5 million copies Worldwide. In 2013 Mr. Hingson published his 2 book “Running with Roselle”- which Is the first of its kind- A story for our youth shedding light on one of Americas Darkest Days. Mr. Hingson's third book, “Live Like A Guide Dog”, was released on August 20, 2024. This book shows readers how they can learn to control fear and not, as Mike would say, “become blinded by fear in the face of crisis”. Aside from his talents and advocacies, Mr. Hingson has traveled the Globe from Japan to New Zealand, the Netherlands to his hometown, Chicago. Speaking to some of the world's most elite: from former President, George W. Bush to Larry King, to Fortune 500 companies and colleges and Universities Nationwide. After sharing his story of survival on hundreds of TV and Radio programs, Michael is now an Expert hired by many of today's major corporations and organizations. Speaking and consulting on the importance of Teamwork and Trust, Moving from Diversity to Inclusion, as well as offering Adaptive Technology Training – spearheading innovation for ALL! - Thus, bringing organizations to the forefront of the ever-changing competitive modern world. In June, 2024 Mike was inducted as an alumni member into the honors Fraternity Phi Beta Kappa. Currently Michael lives in Victorville, California with Alamo, Michael's eighth guide dog and his rescue feline, Stitch. More information on Mr. Hingson is available on his website. Here also is a link to Mr. Hingson's press kit: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/q8uxu9u7pap4puj5de7rg/h?rlkey=22bziy0wmghf8111kad73685y&dl=0 http://www.michaelhingson.com/live-like-a-guide-dog www.michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com/podcast Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/mhingson https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://www.facebook.com/Roselle911GuideDog/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/1568642850718948 https://www.facebook.com/?paipv=0&eav=AfZNi2VDR2R4nC6SveyCvZIyKtyi9VOLOzOKcG-v0Hk1glaVssEHwdR920w1_u-8B-k&_rdr https://www.facebook.com/?paipv=0&eav=AfZNi2VDR2R4nC6SveyCvZIyKtyi9VOLOzOKcG-v0Hk1glaVssEHwdR920w1_u-8B-k&_rdr Twitter, https://twitter.com/mhingson LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson Youtube channel, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfCx2L9OVN38Dv4mX6udP8g Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, hello, everyone. I am Michael Hingson. I am your host on Unstoppable Mindset, and this happens to be episode 475. Yeah, we've done a lot of these, and most all of them have been conversations with people who said that they wanted to come on the podcast and talk about one thing or another. And I was really pleased to have them. This episode is going to be a little bit different, as the last few have been. Episode 472, which we published on September 4, was a talk I gave in April of 2024, which told my story of being in the World Trade Center on september 11, on episode 473 on the eighth of September, Michelle Abraham interviewed me, and we talked about a number of things around september 11 and so on. Episode 474, which was published on the 11th of September, 2026. was a conversation with Bob Ellis, who was in the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, an escape, and we hear his story, and we got to chat and kind of talked about notes from both of us. Now it's episode 475, and it was suggested that I ought to talk about things that I learned from September 11th and how my life has changed, and I'm going to do the best I can to talk about all that. So you're just going to be hearing me today. I hope you won't go away. I hope that you'll enjoy it. I just returned from speaking all week from September 9th through September 11th in Kilgore, Texas, at Kilgore College, they did an incredible job of doing some things to help people become aware of September 11th. They actually had in the library and around the library at Kilgore College a monument to September 11th. They had some columns or portions of columns from the World Trade Center. They had a list of all of the names. They had flags in a in a in several rows with the names of all of the people who were lost on September 11th. They had a timeline from my book Thunderdog: The Story of a Blind man, his guide dog, and the triumph of trust at Ground Zero-a timeline of what I experienced, and they also had, I think, a timeline of just the World Trade Center events in in general. Well, okay, so all of that happened. I got back last night, and now here it is, Sunday. It is the 13th of September, and I'm recording this so that we can publish it on Tuesday, september 15. So that's a little bit of a long way to get to where we are. But as I said, people asked me to talk about what I learned that day, and how I proceeded and progressed from that day, but I have to go back to long before September 11th to really do everything justice and to put it all in context. So let me start this way. I believe that I have said a few times on this podcast, and certainly in some of the speeches that I've given, that I was born two months premature, and I was given a pure oxygen environment when I was born, because I was born early. Medical science had started to hear that even too much oxygen might not necessarily be a good thing, but the doctors in Chicago where I was born didn't buy into that concept yet, and so the result was I was given a pre-oxygen environment, and my retinas didn't develop as they should, and I became blind. So was I born blind? If you're very technical, no. But for all intents and purposes, yes. The doctors told my parents to send me to a home, to send me away, because no blind child could ever. Michael Hingson  04:59 Grow up to amount to anything, and all I would be would would end up being a drain on my family, sucking up all the love that my parents might have had for their older son, two years older than I, my brother Ellery. But the reality is, my parents said you're wrong. He can grow up to do whatever he chooses, and we're going to give him that opportunity. And I grew up with that idea. I grew up with that concept. My parents told me at some point when I was still fairly young about what the doctors had said, and they said, "You know, we think that you can do whatever you want. We want you to have that opportunity. Well, they did a number of things to help the process along. For example, we lived in Chicago until I was five, but at the age of four, typically children in in Illinois start or in Chicago start kindergarten, and I did as well. My parents worked with other parents and the school district to start a kindergarten class for children who were blind, and there were a number of preemies in the Chicago area. In that class, Miss Lapree, my teacher, taught me Braille. See, I remember her name. Taught me Braille. Taught me other skills. Taught the other blind kids because it was a kindergarten class for blind children. Taught us all a variety of different things that we could use, and then unfortunately, in a sense, I guess after kindergarten at the age of four, and it was over, my father had gotten an offer and took a job out in California, and we moved to California. Well, in California, kindergarten starts at five, and even though I had had a course in kindergarten already, I had to go through a second year of it, but we didn't have any kind of facilities to teach us or teach me about Braille going forward, getting me Braille books and so on. So kindergarten, first, second, and third grade, I didn't have access directly to textbook material. My parents helped me though. My father taught me math. He was an electronics and electrical engineer. I was doing algebra in my head by the time I was six. My mother read other assignments to me, taught me the spelling words because in first, second, and third grade you learned to spell, and in theory beyond third grade as well, of course. But what happened for me was that I learned about spelling by my mother teaching me how to spell the words, and then she would say the words, and then I would spell them. Well, that ended up going even further because typically in classrooms, what happened was that when it came time to take the actual spelling test, which happened on Fridays, the teacher would say the words. All of us or all the children in the class would write down the answers. Then we would exchange papers, and the teacher would then write the correct spellings on the board. Not in my class. I had to. Well, I got to get up. I. I don't want to say I had to. That's a lesson that I want to get to. wasn't that I had to get up. I got to get up, and actually spell the words out loud. I remember once missing a word, at least starting to miss a word, and somebody made a noise, and I realized, oh, that must be wrong, and I corrected it. But I learned how to spell words, and I learned to spell them out loud for the whole class, and not be afraid of them, and that way students could grade each other's papers. And so, in a sense, I could say that's where I started to learn how to be involved in doing public speaking, and I learned not to be afraid of standing up and and saying things as long as they were the right kinds of things. Well, between third and fourth grade, I got access to Braille books. Cora Hershberger was hired by the school district to come in. She was a resource teacher with training in dealing with blindness and blind kids and so on. Michael Hingson  08:56 And there were a number of us, and she she was able to get us books, she was able to work with each of us and prove our Braille skills and my Braille skills especially, and so on. So I tell you all of that because I want to put things in perspective, and I think that the most important thing is the doctors told my parents that I couldn't do anything. My parents said, "Of course he can, and they brought me up believing that I could. So I rode a bicycle to school. Everybody still thinks that's amazing. One of the important things that I have learned over the years, and I've learned to articulate it even more effectively. I hope, certainly, I believe better since the World Trade Center, and I became a full-time keynote public speaker, which I've been doing for 25 years, I have learned to discuss this whole concept of blindness and accept the fact that there are going to be a lot of people who have eyesight who get it wrong. They think that, like the doctor said, blind people really can't do anything. You can't absorb the same material, or at least you don't get the same. As sighted people do, so you really aren't going to be able to do the things that we can do. And I have learned that I can't be angry at that. I've learned that in reality, I need to articulate the fact that blindness isn't the problem. The problem happens to be the misconceptions and poor attitudes that people have about blindness. It would be so easy just to be upset every time I hear some comment that talks about what I can do and what I can't do. You can't really ride a bicycle. That's amazing that you could do that. I can't imagine anybody else doing it. I know lots of blind kids who rode bikes, and I'm sure that they still do. Blindness isn't the problem. The reality is the problem consists of the misconceptions and poor attitudes that sighted people have about blindness. Whether you like it or not, that's the way it is. Blindness isn't the problem. We can learn to do the same things pretty much that you can do, and we can learn to do things that you can't do, and we learn all of that and use that knowledge to help us move forward and be more effective. What can I do that you can't do? Try walking around in the dark. You can't do it. You don't know how to do it. You don't have the techniques to do it. One of the things that has cropped up over the past significant number of years is restaurants do something called dining in the dark. Dining in the dark, and there are organizations that promote that, and they say, "Oh, you get to learn how blind people eat and how much of a challenge it is. That is so disgusting that people do that because dying in the dark isn't going to teach you anything about blindness. You don't get the training that you need in order to function as a blind person. Just like I don't get the training to learn how to function as a sighted person. Although I've spent a lot of time observing sighted people, and I understand a lot about eyesight, and I understand what you can do, and I accept that. But I expect, and I think it is reasonable for you to understand and accept that I can do lots of things. That it's not about eyesight. I wrote a book in 20, and it was published by Thomas Nelson Publishing in 2011. I and Susie Florey wrote the book. It's called Thunderdog: The True Story of a Blind Man, His Guide Dogs, and the Triumph of Trust at Ground Zero. And there is a section near the end of the book called Guide Dog Wisdom. And number two in Guide Dog Wisdom includes a sentence that says, "Don't let your sight get in the way of your vision. You all strictly deal with eyesight, and if it's not something that you can see with your eyes, or you don't really separate eyesight from vision, you tend to really misunderstand so many things. But the reality is, don't let your sight get in the way of your vision. Recognize there's a whole lot more to life than eyesight. Michael Hingson  13:01 SEAL Team Six, other military teams, so many other people learn how to use those other senses, and that's the same thing that we as blind people do. We learn to use our other senses. They're not magically enhanced simply because we go blind, but rather we learn how to use those senses? I hope, or we try to, and by doing so, we improve them and we develop them. And those of us who truly do that are a lot more better off, and we're able to do so many things that people think are amazing, but they're not. They're not really amazing. They're certainly not amazing to me. Anyway, I grew up believing all of that, and of course, I was also very fortunate to have a number of jobs throughout my career. And the final result of all of that was I ended up getting the opportunity to open an office in the World Trade Center for Quantum ATL, the company that hired me to open an office in New York, and there we were on September 11th when everything happened. The night, as September 11th ended, was spent by me and my wife Karen. By the way, Karen was in a wheelchair her whole life. We got married in November of 1982, and we were married through into November of 2022. We were married 40 years. Karen was in a wheelchair her whole life. It was a great marriage, as I love to tell people. She read, I pushed, worked out well. How do I push a person in a wheelchair? Well, she used a manual chair, and when we got to curbs and so on, she would stop, and she would hold the wheels, and and I knew that she had stopped. And I would tip the chair back. She might say, "There's a curb. I would tip the chair back onto its back wheels. We'd roll down off the curb, put the chair down. We'd cross the street, tip the chair up. Front wheels go up on the curb on the other side, unless there was a ramp to go up. And we continued on our way. It's not that magical. It is just what I learned to do, and I enjoyed it. and And I enjoyed Karen's company and so on for 40 years. We were locked down during the pandemic and so on. We'll get to some of that in a bit. But I learned overall that in reality, what my parents taught me was true. Blindness wasn't going to be the problem; eyesight was going to be the problem. And that night after September 11th, we kind of tried to make sense of it. It was me and Karen and a friend of Karen's who I also got to know, and who became a friend of mine. Tom Painter had come down. Tom and Karen went to the same high school, but we all ended up in New Jersey. And Tom came to visit us, actually visit Karen after September 11th started. When he heard about the terrorist attacks, he just came down, not knowing whether I was in the office or not. But I was, and Karen and Tom, well, Tom stayed with Karen and and drove her to pick me up at the Westfield, New Jersey train station at about 7p.m. on september 11. We went home with my guide dog Roselle. When we got home, I took Roselle's harness off because I was going to take her outside. She would have none of it. She ran off. She grabbed her favorite tug bone and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog Linnie. Well, that was kind of fun, and I didn't think a lot about it. But I went. That was interesting. The next day, I contacted Guide Dogs for the Blind because several people from there had visited us in the World Trade Center, and among others, I spoke to the head of the veterinary department, and I said, "So, tell me, how is all this going to affect Roselle? Because everybody's talking about how it's going to affect everyone and all that, and and he asked me, "Did anything threaten directly Roselle? Did anything really threaten her? And I said, No, not really. Nothing directly affected her. And he said, Well, there you go. Dogs don't do what if. They live in the moment. Michael Hingson  17:13 And when you took the harness off, it was over for her, and she was ready to go play. She wanted to relax. She wanted to play, and she did. Oh, and yes, we did eventually get her outside. But the bottom line is, I think that's one of the most important things that I learned coming out of September 11th, and I, I kind of knew it beforehand, but I really got to understand it afterward. We what if everything to death? We what if anything that comes into our lives, well, we're we're in a war with Iran. Well, what if Iran bombs us? What if Iran does this? What if the Hooties do that? What are we going to do? What if our government takes us to war in the first place? Well, they have. The bottom line is, though, we don't have control over all of that. We do have control over some things in our lives, and those are the things that we should worry about. We should stop worrying about everything else. And people say, "Well, it's natural to worry. No, it's not. Not any more natural to worry than it is not to worry. We learn to worry because we're taught that. But the bottom line is, if we learn only to focus on the things over which we truly have control, and be aware of the other things, but don't let them worry us. Don't let them cause fear in our lives. We will live much less fearful and much more stress-free lives than in any other way. If you want another example of why I believe this, on September 11th, David Frank, my colleague who had come in to be involved with the seminars, David had come in the night before, and he came to our office about 8o'clock in the morning on the 11th of September. When we were escaping from the towers, we ended up downstairs and outside. David saw fire in Tower Two, and the way we happened to walk took us very close to Tower Two. We were at Broadway and Vessi Street, maybe 100 yards away from Tower Two. And when David stopped, he said, "You know, there's fire in Tower Two. I want to take pictures of it. And and I also wanted to try to call my wife Karen to let her know that we had gotten out of the towers, I couldn't get through. The circuits were busy because, as we later learned, people were calling and talking to loved ones. But anyway, David had just started putting his camera away. I had put my phone away, and a police officer yelled, "Get out of here! It's coming down right now! And we heard this sound I describe as kind of a combination of a freight train and a waterfall. I could hear glass breaking, metal clattering, and then just the building collapsing straight down. We didn't necessarily know that it was going to do that, but it did. It did exactly what it was designed to do. Anyway, everyone turned and ran. David ran. I turned 180 degrees. With Roselle, and started running back the other way. And as soon as I started to run, I thought to myself, "God, I can't believe that you got us out of a building just to have it fall on us. And I heard in my head a voice as clearly as you hear me right now-a voice that said, "Don't worry about what you can't control, focus on running with Roselle, and the rest will take care of itself. And I had this absolute sense of conviction that if we worked together, we would be fine. Well, we were. Where'd that voice come from? It was God talking to me. I grew up with my father very seriously believing in the concept of God. If you don't, that's fine. That is your choice. I've had people on my podcast who don't necessarily have strong beliefs and convictions about God. I do, but it's not my job to force people or compel people to believe in God. I will tell my story, and people can accept it or reject it as they choose. But that's what happened to me, and I've realized from that time on: don't worry about what you can't control. And I really, truly work very hard to focus on not worrying about the things that I don't have any influence over. Michael Hingson  21:16 I like to be aware of them. I hear from people all the time today about don't watch the news. I don't like to watch the news because it just makes me so angry and so fearful. And my response is, I'm going to watch the news because I want to know what's going on. And sometimes I'll yell at politicians through the TV, but I won't really overall get angry at them. I will hear it. I will either accept it or decide I don't have any influence over it, so I'm not going to worry about it, and I don't because it isn't going to help me to worry about it. It isn't going to help anyone else to worry about any of those kinds of things. Don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on what you can and leave the rest alone, and that's one of the basic premises of the third book that I wrote, which was published in 2024, entitled "Live Like a Guide Dog: True Stories from a Blind Man and His Dogs About Being Brave, Overcoming Adversity, and Moving Forward in Faith. And that book was written by me and Carrie Wyatt Kent. The book was published by Tyndale House, and is out there for people to to read. The first book was published by Thomas Nelson Publishing, which is now part of Harper Collins, and a lady, Jeanette Hanscom, and I wrote the second book, which is called Running with Roselle, which is really a book more for children, teaching them about me growing up, Roselle growing up, and how we met. A little bit about the World Trade Center. That one was self-published, but all three books are available wherever you can find books, so you can get them always from Amazon, of course. And so I hope that that you'll get them and read them. They will help. Live Like a Guide Dog probably is the best book for me to talk about in terms of things that I learned over the years, but if I really summarize mostly what happened for me after September 11th, it is that what happened on that day validated everything that I've believed about me. Certainly, what I believe about God, but it validates everything that I've ever thought about blindness, blind people, what we can do, the challenges we face, some of the issues that other people have, and the validation is certainly something that helped what I learned. But I learned other things along the way, and you know I want to talk about some of those things. The first, as I said, is don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on what you can, and let the rest take care of itself. Speaker 1  23:56 If you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes, thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. One Michael Hingson  24:28 of the things that happened to me almost immediately after September 11th is I started hearing people say, "We got to get back to normal. If we don't get back to normal, that's a problem. We got to get back to normal. And I always reacted internally, at least pretty negatively to that. And I finally realized why I reacted to that statement about we got to get back to normal. The reason I reacted to that statement, and I still react to to myself to that statement, is normal will never be the same again. We can't get back to normal. If we get back to normal the way it was prior to September 11th, the same thing will happen again. We can't do that. We have to get back to a different normal, and and in fact, normal is probably going to be an ongoing, constant process of change. We ought to learn not to fear that either. Change is all around us. We always say that, but then we don't like change. It's kind of a paradox. But the reality is, change is all around us. And what we really need to do is to learn how to focus in change. And we need to learn that in reality, we can deal with change. And if we have any influence over it, then we should do something about that too. But the bottom line is, getting back to normal prior to September 11th isn't going to help any of us, and and it isn't going to happen. So that is an one thing that I will say definitely. I learned from September 11th: normal will never be the same again. As I said a lot earlier, I think I probably learned about public speaking at least the beginning of it by doing the spelling tests and so on. But after September 11th, the media got my story, and that happened because Joanne Ritter, the public and information services person at the time at Guide Dogs wanted to write a story, and I kind of agreed. And I said, "That's fine. And then she said, "I'll bet you'll be on TV. What television show do you want to be on first? So I kind of just sort of flippantly said, "Larry King Live. That was on the 12th of September when I talked with her. On the 13th, she called back and she said, "Larry King wants you on his show on september 14, which was a Friday, and they sent a car to pick me up, and and I recall Karen and and Tom one as well, and anyway, we went into the World Trade Center, not to the World Trade Center, but we went into New York, and I appeared on CNN, which was the first of five interviews with Larry. Larry also, by the way, at my request, wrote the foreword for Thunderdog. So when you read Thunderdog, you'll get to read Larry's words as well. But after being on Larry King, the media really got my story, and a lot of things happened after that. I started getting literally calls every day for interviews. People wanted to talk to me about September 11th and ask questions and so on. And one of the things that I learned was that talking to reporters could be a great therapy because they would ask virtually any kind of question you can imagine. And of course, a lot of people said things like, "Well, did you know what happened on September 11th when it was happening? And I said no. And they said, well, of course you didn't. You're blind, you know. And my response is, anybody who says that really needs to not let their sight get in their way or their vision to be polite about it. The fact of the matter is, as we were going down the stairs, no one knew anything about what was going on. When I got into the stairwell, I began smelling an odor, and it took me four floors to realize I was smelling the fumes from burning jet fuel. I did a lot of travel for my company, and so I was in airports a lot. So I recognized that smell. People were speculating about what they were smelling. People were speculating about what was going on. Nobody had a clue. Michael Hingson  28:20 When I realized I was smelling jet fuel, I observed it to everyone around me, and they said, "You're right. That's what we're smelling. It's burning jet fuel. We must have been hit by an airplane. You see, no one knew. We had no clue. Superman and X-ray vision just aren't real. And the bottom line is, nobody knew what was actually happening on September 11th. Blindness have nothing to do with it. People want to feel more comfortable by saying, "Well, most people probably did know, but you're blind. You didn't know. We've got to get away from these habits of thinking that just because somebody is different than we are, that they're less than we are. That's just not true. In any case, the bottom line is that we we really deal with those kinds of things, and that helped me as as time went by recognize and realize that normal would never be the same again, and it validated more my belief that blindness isn't the problem; it's the misconceptions and poor attitudes that people have about blindness that tends to truly be the problem that we face. So, as I began to talk with reporters, I didn't think about what was actually happening. But later, I realized when people started saying, "Well, did you ever get counseling or therapy, and I said no. And then it just popped into my head to say I probably had the best therapy around. I got interviewed by hundreds of reporters that asked basically any question that you can imagine, and I learned to answer those questions without being upset, especially when they were asking pretty derogatory questions or making derogatory comments. Your dog led you down the stairs. No, my dog did not lead me down the stairs. Guide dogs do not lead; they guide. And I understand the definition of lead, but it's a little bit different than what people were truly saying. What they were saying is you didn't know anything, and the dog took you all the way down the stairs because the dog could see. No, in fact, Roselle didn't lead me. Roselle's job wasn't, and no guide dog's job is to lead a person or to take charge. The dog's job is to make sure that we walk safely. I also have a job on the team. My job is to make sure that I know where we're going and how to get there. A lot easier now than it was 25 years ago, but the bottom line is that I'm the one that has to direct the dog and give the dog commands, and the dog needs to make sure that we carry out those commands safely. We are a team; we work together. I've always kind of known that guide dog schools didn't necessarily early in my guide dog career, express it that way, but it's it's a much stronger statement now. They recognize that truly we're a team. We each have a job to do on the team, and we have to work together to make the team work, which is true of any team. I've mentioned Seal Team Six earlier. They're a team. They work together. The firefighters in the World Trade Center and the other people who who were around there worked as a team, and they had to work as a team in order to develop a level of trust and a relationship where essentially each person knew what the others on their team were going to do, and it gave them more of a confidence to be able to function. Teamwork is so crucial in our world, and I learned, and and again on September 11th, it was totally validated how teamwork is so important. Roselle and I worked together well. The firefighters worked together well. Yes, we lost people, but the team really is so important, and we need to recognize that anyone listening to this ought to work in any of the things that they do to develop teams. Being alone makes no sense; it isn't going to work. You're going to have to and should learn to work with other people to make teams work better. I've seen companies where when they have award ceremonies, the leader of a team or the boss of a team gets an award, but the rest of the team doesn't really get the same recognition. Michael Hingson  32:30 If a leader is truly doing a good job at creating a team and being a part of a team, then that leader is really enhancing everyone else on the team, and that leader is the person who should help to make sure that when awards are given, that everyone on a team is recognized. We need to to learn and realize that a team is a bunch of people. It's not just one people, but they learn to work together, and that is also so important. And as I learned more and more about the events of the World Trade Center, I learned and realized more about the whole understanding of teamwork and trust and the value of it. I knew about it with me and Roselle, and I recognized the concept of teamwork. But certainly, September 11th again validated that a whole lot more effectively than anything else that I could think of, but I worked with eight dogs over the years, and working with eight dogs from my first guide dog Squire, who was a golden retriever, up through my current guide dog Alamo, I've learned probably I think more than I ever learned from experts and teamwork and sales and so on and motivation. I learned more from those dogs than I ever learned from the human experts because of the fact that one, I had to build a team with a creature who didn't think the same way I did, who didn't talk the same language that I did, and that expected things from me, and and as one of the things that I've learned is that dogs who are guide dogs really want the human to be the pack leader because it is the pack leader, it is the human who's supposed to tell the dog what they want the dog to do, and dogs take that so incredibly seriously. I mentioned Linny. Well, I didn't mention her, I think, by name. But Lenny was my fourth guide dog, and we were out in in San Diego at a company meeting one Friday in May of 1999, and we came home. It was a Saturday morning that we got home. I flew a red eye home, fed Lenny, and then rested and and all that. But Saturday night, when it came time to feed Linny, I called her. She wouldn't come. Karen even called her. She wouldn't come. We went. Upstairs and found her lying on her bed, kind of really not very responsive. We got her to a veterinarian, and it took a few days for the veterinarian to diagnose what she had as something called glomerular nephritis, which is a disease where the kidneys, the glomeria of the kidneys, which would normally pass out bad stuff from the kidneys but not the good stuff. They were passing out the good stuff as well, and Lenny was was not doing well. We were able to reverse that, but she had to retire from being a guide dog. In fact, we thought in late June of 1999 that we were going to lose her. We went off to a a meeting, not a meeting, but we went off to a hotel to say goodbye to Linny, if you will, on like the second of July. But Linny didn't pass away then, and she did get better. And then Roselle came into our lives, and Roselle and Linny became really good friends, but I mention all of it because I had no clue what was happening to Linny. Guide dogs love their jobs; they take them very seriously. And the fact of the matter is, as I learned, and especially after September 11th, I learned that these dogs will work till they drop. They will. They will do everything they can to please us, because they love what we do. They love us, and we need to bestow the same kind of love on them, which is all part of what teamwork is all about. Well, the bottom line was with Linny. She was with us for three more years, and she got to play with Roselle a lot, and so on. Michael Hingson  36:41 Of course, as I also mentioned after September 11th, but I again, especially because of what happened to Linny, but then afterward on September 11th, I realized how much it was important for me to do all I could to keep the team relationship a positive, strong one, to recognize that in reality these dogs work so hard on their own part to make the team's relationships work. They they deal with what they have to deal with. They get very stressed if we're upset. They take it very personally if we get upset, even if we're not necessarily upset at them; they still take it very personally. The more stress that a guide dog faces in their lives, the harder it's going to be for them, and frankly, the shorter their lives are going to be. So I learned, even before September 11th, but especially after September 11th, to do all I could to keep the stress away from the dog. As we were going down the stairs on September 11th, I constantly encouraged and praised Roselle. What a good dog! Keep going. What a good job! Good girl, Roselle. Even if I wasn't able to hold the harness because the stairs were so crowded that Roselle couldn't walk next to me and had to walk behind me at heel, and I would just hold the leash. I kept praising her because I wanted her to know for her I was okay, and I had to focus on not being afraid and letting that fear come out. Well, I was fearful like anyone was, and in fact, I love to tell people. Being a great fan of science fiction, I have a great imagination, and I was listening for the building to make creaks and groans, and you never knew what was going to happen. Fortunately, it didn't all the way down. But the bottom line for me was that doing so kept me focused. And I and I learned later that while I might have been afraid on September 11th, partly because I was encouraging Roselle and working to sound very calm and confident, I was able to also help other people, but help Roselle and keep Roselle from being afraid and and being stressed. And I work very hard to do that with my guide dogs that I've had since even more than prior to September 11th. My current guide dog Alamo and I travel the world speaking all over the place, if you will. We've been to Israel. We've been well, actually, Alamo didn't get to go to London, but we've been to Israel with my seventh guide dog, Africa. We went to the Netherlands, Alamo and I have been to Wisconsin. I've been to a variety of places, and of course, all around the the world, all around the United States, to Canada, everywhere. And again, I don't necessarily know a lot about where we're going in advance, but I ask a lot of questions so that I can learn where we're going to go, so that I can give the dogs the appropriate commands. I mentioned Wisconsin's. I've been all over the United States. It's been an honor, and I'm going to continue to do that. If anybody wants a public speaker to come and talk to their organization, please reach out to me. I'd love to hear from you. My email address is really simple. It's speaker@michaelhinkson.com. We'll put that in the show notes, and love to hear from you. So anyway, I learned a lot about teamwork from working with eight guide dogs, and I continue to learn every day. I think it's very important for me to learn and to focus all that I can to make sure that I do what it is that's necessary to make a team work, and I believe it is all about the team. I've mentioned that I've written three books, and each one was a collaboration with someone else: Susie Florey with Thunderdog, Jeanette Hanscom with Running with Roselle and Carrie Wyatt Kent with Live Like a Guide Dog, and and the fact of the matter is those collaborations I think were very important. Michael Hingson  40:49 They made the books come out a lot different than I might have imagined them coming out by themselves and the way I would have written them without having collaboration, and probably Live Like a guide dog more than more than the other two, just because of the way it all went. But with live like a guide dog, we focused on each of my my guide dogs and the lessons that we learned. So I mentioned Squire, who I worked with in high school and then went to college with Squire, and Squire was was all around where wherever I was. One night in a dorm, I was with a roommate. Well, actually, a person who lived in a room next door to mine, and I was in his room. We were dealing with a physics problem. By the way, my master's degree is in physics. I have a secondary teaching credential, but I was in with Richard dealing with a physics problem. When I went back into my room, there was no Squire. I didn't realize that a couple of the students decided to play a trick and kidnap him. I went looking around the dorm. I even went into the bathroom and opened the shower door and called Squire, and nothing was totally quiet, and finally, I was getting a little bit concerned. And one of the people said, "Oh well, look, we took the dog. We'll show you. They went into the bathroom, opened the shower door, and out comes Squire. He was in on it. He didn't do a thing when I opened the door, but when the other people did, then then he came out. I wasn't mad at him. Sneaky dog that he is, he had a great sense of humor. But I got vengeance because that that person didn't tell the other people that they showed him where showed me where Squire was. I went and hit Squire somewhere, and then I went back out into the main part of the dorm and I started going, "Who took my dog? What's going on? Where is he? And all the other people said, "Oh, come on, he's in the bathroom. And they went in and opened the door to the shower. No Squire, and they were starting to worry about what happened to him. And Squire, of course, was again not making noise. But eventually, I brought him out and I said, "Okay, I found him. I knew where he was. We're playing a trick on you just like you played a trick on me. That'll teach you. I learned that dogs have a sense of humor that day, but I also learned how much I valued having Squire around, and so Squire worked with me up until and through my first graduate year in physics at UC Irvine, and then Squire retired and went to live with my parents. And in 1973, I got my second guide dog, Holland. Holland was with me through 1986. He worked for almost 13 years, and in fact, was two weeks from retiring when he collapsed in our backyard one day, and we took him to the vet. And the vet said, "I could probably bring him out of whatever he's got, maybe a stroke or a heart attack or both, but he won't have a good quality of life. And so we said goodbye to to Holland. Holland and Squire were both golden retrievers, but again, Holland so strongly reinforced all the things that that I had felt about teamwork, and I learned so much more from him about what I needed to do in order to to function well, not just with a dog, but in my whole life. Then I got Klondike, who was my third guide dog, who was also a golden retriever. Soon after I got Klondike, well, about a year after I got Klondike, suddenly one day he had a very strong grand mal epileptic seizure, and we took him to the vet, and they put him on some medication that wasn't really helping that. And we then kept trying to to deal with it, and finally, and during that same time, I was looking for a job. I had owned my own company for four years, but decided I wanted to go back into the workforce, and and I finally got a job with a company. Michael Hingson  44:52 And on one of the first days that I worked there, Klondike had four grand mal seizures in the. Period of time, and we thought we were going to have to say goodbye to Klondike. But I talked to our veterinarian, and he said, "You know, before we do that, I want to send him to a neurologist who did an electroencephalograph. And he said, "I didn't see much, but he said one thing he did was to take some blood tests, and he said I noticed that his Klondike's thyroid level is low, and low thyroid levels in dogs like Klondike can make them more susceptible to have seizures, just like it can for children. Well, we put Klondike on synthroid, synthetic thyroid, as well as on phenobarbital to control the seizures. The synthroid had much more of an effect than the phenobarb did, Klondike actually became a much more active and playful and interactive dog, and did not have from that time on for the next seven years that he worked for me as a guide dog never had a single seizure. So the thyroid theory was a good one. Again, with with Klondike, it was about developing a team and recognizing that we had to work together. Well, then I got Linny, and again I mentioned Linny only worked for three years. Linny had glomerular nephritis that was really probably from a tick bite where the tick had Lyme's disease, and we didn't know any of that was happening until that night that Linny didn't wake up at all or didn't get up from her bed, and we finally got it diagnosed. And then I got Roselle. Now Roselle was a a wonderful dog. One of the things that I've always said is that when I get a new guide dog and I tell the trainers I want a dog with an on-off switch. That is, I want a dog that knows when the harness is on, it's time to work, and when the harness is off, then they can play. Clearly, Roselle had that when she was in harness. She was very focused. She did develop a phobia of thunderstorms, but there were a few times that we had thunderstorms, and she was able to continue to guide, even though she would shake and she would shiver a little bit. But she continued to guide. She focused. In fact, there was a thunderstorm the morning of September 11th, about 12:30 in the morning. But there was no thunder when we were going through what we did in the World Trade Center, so none of that caused her to be fearful. But again, Roselle was a dog that that taught me a lot about observation, learning what the dogs do, what what they fear, and how to help keep them focused and calm. And so I did that. My sixth guide dog was Meryl. Meryl only worked for about a year. Roselle retired in 2007. Merrill worked from 2007 to 2008, but Merrill became very fearful of guiding, and so ended up not being a guide dog very long. And I I'd never experienced that, although I had heard other people who had issues where dogs didn't work very long. Lenny only worked for three years, but a dog that didn't work for more than a year-that was unusual for me. However, poor Meryl wasn't able to do well as a guide, and so she retired. And then we got Africa. Now Africa was my seventh guide dog. Africa's mother was Fantasia. In January of 2006, we were working. I was working at Guide Dogs for the Blind, and we applied to be what were called breeder keepers. That is, they were the the people who would keep a breeder dog in their home because the guide dogs for the blind bred their own guide dogs and so on. And breeder keepers would keep dogs in their homes so that the dogs weren't just cooped up in kennels all day, and we volunteered to do that. And the director of breeding, Marina Hall, called us and said, "I've got four dogs for you to look at. I think one's better than the others for you, but I want you to come and meet these dogs. So we went down, and and she made the comment again. I think one dog is going to be better than the others. Michael Hingson  49:02 And and I said, well, if you think so strongly, but which one is it? Well, she finally sort of told us. She said, I didn't want to tell you, but I'll tell you. So she did. But anyway, the first dog who came in was a dog named Fantasia, and it works sort of the same way that when people get guide dogs, you're in a room. The dog is allowed to come in, and you see how the dog reacts to you. When I met Squire for the first time, I was sitting in a chair. They let Squire in. He came over and started sniffing me all over. Didn't leave me. He just started sniffing. And Bruce Benzler, who was the apprentice instructor at the time, later became director of Guide Dogs for the Blind, CEO anyway, anyway. Bruce then said, "Looks like you found a friend already, and we became friends. But anyway, when when Fantasia came into the room, she took one look at Karen and leaped into Karen's lap. She had no fear of the power wheelchair that Karen was using by that time. The other three dogs, we still looked at them, and they all expressed one level of fear or concern about being around this wheelchair. But Marina said Fantasia was the one that we thought you'd like best and would like you best, and she was. So anyway, in 2006, we got Fantasia in January, and later that year, she had a litter of puppies, and then in early or mid 2007, she Fantasia had her second litter. I guess it was late in 2006 she had the second litter, but anyway, by the middle of 2008, when we had to retire Meryl because she wasn't working out very well, we were notified that they found a dog that they thought would be a really good replacement for Meryl, and that's a dog named Africa. And Karen and I realized Africa was a name that we suggested as as breeder keepers that they could name one of their puppies if they had puppies who came from an A litter. And the way it works, by the way, is when a litter is born, they're assigned a letter of the alphabet, and they got a big book, and they go into that book and they get the next names that are available. They don't use names of current guide dogs, so when a dog retires, then they can start using that name again. But anyway, Africa was a name that we suggested, and as soon as we saw the email that said Africa, we knew Fantasia was Africa's mother. Well, Africa came and joined us, and mom and daughter did really well, and Roselle was still with us. So the three of them have a lot of fun together, but again with Africa, I learned about teamwork and doing the things that I needed to do. Every dog is different, and one of the things that I developed over the years was an understanding that to truly develop a relationship with a dog takes probably close to a year by the time we really are totally comfortable with each other, but I worked with Africa. We became good friends. Africa became good friends with Roselle. Of course, Africa liked her mom, and all worked out really well. Developing those teeming relationships is so important, and you can learn a lot more about them if you get live like a guide dog. I think you'll find them all very interesting to to read about. So in 2017, I noticed that Africa was starting to slow down and not do as well. She wasn't able to see as well at night. Sort of typical signs of a dog getting older, even though I work to to keep stress out as much as possible, but I applied and in 2018 on the 9th of February, Africa's puppy raisers, Bill and Peggy Sproul from San Francisco or San Diego rather, came to visit us in Victorville, and we had offered them the opportunity to take Africa because we had Fantasia, and we had Africa. And if we kept Africa and Fantasia, and I got a new guide dog, Karen would have a hard time taking care of two dogs when I traveled, because I was doing a great deal of travel by then as a keynote speaker, and so the Sprouls came and got Africa. Michael Hingson  53:26 Left our house, Africa didn't even look back. She was gone. We had visited her several times since then, and and in in the Sprouls home, Africa died in 2020. But we we got to visit Africa several times and it was a lot of fun and and she she loved us and all that and remembered us anyway on the 11th of February two days later I went to Guide Dogs for the Blind and I met Alamo who was my first black Labrador and I met him we we met in the room and he kind of sniffed me a little bit and walked around the room. But then came back and sniffed me, and then I took him on leash back to our our dorm room at Guide Dogs for the Blind, and I decided I'd sit on the floor to to visit with him. And the next thing I know, this big, huge, 60 pound Labrador is in my lap. Alamo was and is a lapdog, but he doesn't know a stranger, which is great. I mentioned earlier that I always said that when I get a guide dog, I want a guide dog that has an on and off switch. Another thing that I require is that guide dogs that I get be raised by cats. I have known of animals who of guide dogs who don't like cats, and I would not want that because we always have had cats. And by that time, when we got Alamo, we had Stitch, who we rescued in January of 2015. So now here it is, February of 2018. So I knew that we needed to have a dog that wasn't going to be. Be afraid of cats. Well, so Stitch and Alamo kind of walked around each other a little bit when we first went home, but they got to like each other pretty well pretty quickly, and they have been together ever since. Alamo has been on a number of aircraft, as I've mentioned over the years, he went to Israel with me. He didn't go to England when I spoke in 2024, but he's been to other places and will continue to travel with me. I work really hard to keep the stress out of his life. I don't want him to become any more stressed than he ever has to be, and he feeds off of how I behave, as as I've learned guide dogs do. So that's one of the most important things that I've learned is to keep that stress out of his life. I would point out that is just as much true for human teams. Don't stress out your team. If you are a leader, your job is to enhance what those leaders, what the team does. Your job isn't to boss them around. If you're doing that, you're only causing more stress, and you're going to find you're going to have a big job turnover, much more than you really should. I've always felt that my job isn't to boss people around when I hire them, my job is to enhance their abilities by using the skills that I have and learning to work with them to give them the benefit of what I know and to use the benefits of what they know to learn myself as well, so that we become more effective. And the people who really get that do very well. The people who didn't get that tend not to last very long at the company because they don't perform very well. Because I know that in reality, I add value to the team by working to add value, not bossing the team around. I think there's a big difference between leaders and bosses, and I've learned that over the years. That leaders are people who can enhance what other people do, who work to make the whole team effective and not just try to boss people around. In late 2020, I discovered a company called Accessibe, A C C E S S I capital B E. Website is accessibee.com. Was a company that made products to help make internet websites more inclusive, and at first, they had some challenges because they were using a lot of AI stuff to make their products work, and they sort of did. But there were there were challenges. But one day in January of 2021, the founder of the company, Sheer Eckerling. Michael Hingson  57:41 contacted me and said we're interested in you joining the company. I had been looking at possibly selling their products because the pandemic had hit, and I thought I could sell them from home because we were locked down. And and he said, well, you know, we we'd like you to not sell as a partner, just on your own, we'd like you to join the company. Well, he asked what I was doing, and by that time I had started to learn about podcasting because I couldn't travel and speak all over the world. So what I decided to do was to look at using podcast as a revenue source. And Shear said, "Well, you know, we we're really interested in having somebody do a podcast for us. And I said, "What do you want? And he said, "I want to just get somebody who will do a podcast to show that we're part of the world. And you join the company; you could do that in part. I joined the company, and he didn't have any specific agenda for the podcast. So, in August of 2021, I began Unstoppable Mindset, and soon it became unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. And I'll explain all of that in a moment. But the point is that we started the podcast. I created the title. I recreated the description, and I wanted the podcast to be conversations. And as anyone who has been on the podcast knows, we don't do interviews as such. We do conversations, and I ask people to send me materials to help me prepare to be able to do the conversation. And so a number of times we've had diversity experts on people from the DEI world, and when I ask them what they do, they say, you know, we focus a lot on diversity, and I say, what does that mean? And they say, well, we deal with race, gender, sexual orientation, and so on. And we chat for a little while, and then I say, but you haven't talked about disabilities. And they say, oh, disability is not a minority. And I say, what do you mean? He said, well, disability is a social justice thing. It's not like race, gender, or sexual orientation. And my response to that is balderdash. I like to use balderdash. I could go back and use what Colonel Sherman Potter did on Mash and say monkey muffins. But anyway, balderdash because diversity should include disability because it is a minority. Even the Center for Disease Control says that. Adversity, or that that people with disabilities are a minority of about 25% of people in the United States. Well, so the bottom line for me is that I would say to them, "What do you mean you're you're not including it? And they say, "Well, it's a it's a disability, but it's social justice. It's always about being a lack of ability, and as I have learned, especially since September 11th and and beyond, disability does not mean a lack of ability. You might want to think it does. You might want to try to make that fit, but it doesn't. And I learned that most effectively in March of 2023 when I went to something, by that time Karen had passed, and I was working with a person who had been Karen's caregiver, who decided to work for me. Very grateful for Josie doing that. Josie entered my name in the contest to be a guest at the Kelly and Ryan Oscar after party, which was going to be held the Monday after the Oscars at the Dolby Theater, well, I didn't even know she entered me, but I got a call the Tuesday before the Oscar after party and the Oscars, and I was and I picked up the phone and they said congratulations, and I said for what? Oh, you won an invitation to come to the Kelly and Ryan Oscar after party, and I went really well. Anyway, I went down with my niece and nephew, Tracy and Charlie Green. The there wasn't room for taking Josie, her husband, and her mother and her five kids. So it was just me, Tracy, and Charlie. Michael Hingson  1:01:37 We got up to our room about 3o'clock in the afternoon on the Saturday before the Oscars, the day before the Oscars, we put our luggage in our room and we were coming back down the main stairwell staircase actually from the third to the first floor in the Hollywood Roosevelt. It's a very open staircase, and all of a sudden I heard people screaming, and it took me a while to to try to understand what's going on, and finally I couldn't figure it out. I said, Tracy, what's going on? And she said, Oh, we just lost power and lighting on the stairs, and and power and lighting in and around the entire hotel. Now it didn't bother Tracy. Tracy had known me for a long time, but people were panicky because they weren't getting all the light they expected, even though the windows were open, the the shades were up on the first floor in the lobby, and so on. Lots of light, but it wasn't all that people expected. And I thought about that, and what I learned from that was, it proves that disability isn't a lack of ability; it proves that disability is a characteristic that we all have. Thomas Edison and others worked on the light bulb, and Thomas Edison is credited with developing the electric light bulb back in 1878. But in the 148 years since the light bulb was developed, all society has done in that regard is worked very hard on coming up with better ways of providing light on demand, so that you sighted people could have all the light you want when you want it. Nowadays, we have smartphones, we have flashlights, we have other ways of getting light on demand. But as the Americans with Disabilities Act would describe it. The light bulb is simply, or any piece of technology that produces light on demand, is simply a piece of technology that provides light on demand to light-dependent people who otherwise don't function well without it. The bottom line is, disability is not a lack of ability. We got words like discrete, discern, disciple. What is discern? Is it a lack of discern? What is it? What is disciple? A lack of viple? No. Disability is not a lack of ability. Disability is a character

Dave Landau joins us in-studio, drunk OJ Simpson, Aaron Rodgers pops off on his ex-girlfriends, remembering Larry King's greatest moments, cringy Corey Feldman, former hockey players sue UofM, The Trial of Alec Baldwin, a new Bonerline, and Jim's Picks: Top 10 Work Songs. Dave Landau is in the house. Marc is still on assignment covering "OJ Unseen: Exploitation of Evil" about OJ Simpson classic prank show "Juiced". We miss you, Larry King. His research was top notch. Aaron Rodgers is talking some serious crap about some of his exes. Great guy. He also popped off about vaccines and Dianna Russini on Not Just Football with Cam Heyward. Karmelo Anthony is starting to look like a bad guy. Who would have thought? More jurors spill on the deliberation in the Lindsay Clancy case. Brand new Bonerline. The University of Michigan is being sued AGAIN. This time for a hockey hazing scandal. There's MORE clips of Corey Feldman butchering songs. Jimmy Kimmel Live! is allegedly over in about a year. The Amazon Prime Air plane crash story is getting really weird. The Trial of Alec Baldwin looks like it's going to be totally fair to Alec Baldwin. We CAN'T WAIT for the Nathan Fielder/Elizabeth Holmes documentary. Jim's Picks: Top 10 Work Songs for Labor Day. Check out Dave Landau's YouTube Special dropping on Tuesday. Merch is available if you want to rep the show. You'd look amazing too. If you'd like to help support the show… consider subscribing to our YouTube Channel, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (Drew Lane, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels, Jim Bentley, BranDon, and Roberto).

Today the QAA crew is taking a small rest day from their melted algorithms but have no fear dear listener, we won't leave you hanging. Last week Jack and Julian began releasing their new Cursed Media mini series and today, in lieu of a usual main episode, we would like to share the first episode of what they have been cooking up. Raising Hell. In 1988, federal regulators closed Omaha's Franklin Community Federal Credit Union after discovering that nearly $40 million had disappeared. The institution's manager, Lawrence E. “Larry” King Jr., was a charismatic civic leader and political operator who had cultivated relationships far beyond Nebraska. King's public image, and the astonishing scale of the missing money, made the collapse a major scandal. But as investigators began following the financial trail, an even more disturbing story took shape. In Chapter One of Raising Hell, “Once Upon a Time in Omaha,” Jack LaRoche and Julian Feeld return to the origins of the Franklin story: not the lurid mythology that later grew around it, but the vulnerable children, troubled households, foster-care placements, and child-welfare institutions from which the first allegations emerged. The episode examines the experiences of young people who passed through a system that was supposed to protect them, including Boys Town and Nebraska's foster-care network, and who repeatedly encountered adults unwilling or unable to recognize what was happening around them. At the center of this chapter is Eulice Washington. Her disclosures helped expose documented abuse inside an Omaha household and opened a path toward far more explosive allegations involving Larry King and other influential people. What began as an investigation into the treatment of children would soon collide with the Franklin credit-union case, drawing in social workers, journalists, law-enforcement agencies, politicians, private investigators, and witnesses whose accounts would be alternately ignored, sensationalized, challenged, and transformed. Content warning: This episode contains discussions of child abuse, sexual exploitation, and institutional neglect. Episode Music by Nick Sena and Pontus Berghe Theme Music by Thomas Arsenault Produced by Corey Klotz Subscribe for $5 a month to get all the premium episodes: www.patreon.com/qaa Click here to become a subscriber to Cursed Media today to get access to the first three episodes of Raising Hell right now, plus the new Raising Hell episodes weekly, plus every other exclusive Cursed Media series: https://cursedmedia.net QAA Cover Art by Pedro Correa: (https://pedrocorrea.com) qaapodcast.com QAA was known as the QAnon Anonymous podcast.

Johnny Mac closes out the summer with comedy news, led by Ricky Gervais calling a knighthood meaningless, saying he'd do it if his mother were alive, might do it to annoy people, and joking about being offered one. Frank Caliendo recounts on Sage Steele's podcast that John Madden wanted to sue him over Madden-like impressions in commercials and a video game parody, with Charles Barkley arguing the bits made them money. Clips include Jay Leno telling Adam Carolla he took a 50% Tonight Show pay cut to keep staff, and John Mulaney telling Larry King he knew Ivanka Trump at Georgetown. Leanne Morgan discusses late-career arena success and preferring cleaner portrayals of Southern characters. Emily Catalano describes jokes from her special The Introvert. Bill Burr ribs Kevin Nealon on Hiking with Kevin and reflects on measuring comedic skill. Johnny previews weekend deep dives (Jerry Lewis telethon; 9/11) and offers Comedy Stock Market buys: Stavros Halkias, Jo Koy, Shane Gillis, and Party Down coming to Netflix Sept. 22, plus LA show picks, I Love Lucy's 2026 Legacy Award, Joan Rivers notes, and Joe Lycett's new Channel 4 series The Lycett Arms. 00:20 Ricky Gervais Knighthood01:48 Caliendo Madden Lawsuit03:45 Jay Leno Pay Cut Story05:18 Mulaney Ivanka Memory06:23 Leanne Morgan Staying Grounded07:47 Emily Catalano New Special09:01 Burr Roasts Nealon09:54 Weekend Deep Dives Preview10:40 Comedy Stock Market Picks13:01 LA Comedy Show Guide15:38 Lucy Legacy Emmy16:01 Joan Rivers Remembered17:43 Joe Lycett Pub Show Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/daily-comedy-news-with-johnny-mac--4522158/support.Today's DCN is brought to you by MyBookie use promo code DCN!Daily Comedy News is hosted by Johnny Mac and releases every weekday. Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite app. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network. For transcripts and show notes visit www.dailycomedynews.comDaily Comedy News with Johnny Mac is a daily podcast covering comedians, stand-up comedy, late night television, and the comedy industry. New episodes every morning. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.  Contact John at John@thesharkdeck dot com For Uninterrupted Listening, use the Apple Podcast App and click the banner that says Uninterrupted Listening.  $4.99/month John's Substack about media is free. 

It's Thursday, August 27th, A.D. 2026. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard on 140 radio stations and at www.TheWorldview.com.  I'm Adam McManus. (Adam@TheWorldview.com) By Jonathan Clark and Adam McManus Haitian gang members killed 50 people in church Gang members attacked a church in Haiti on Sunday, killing nearly 50 people. Displaced people were sheltering in the building of Church of the Ark of the New Covenant. The evangelical church is located near Haiti's capital, Port-au-Prince. Up to 90 percent of the area is controlled by gangs. The gang members killed 47 people and injured another 22 people.  Please pray for Christians in Haiti who face much of the widespread gang violence in the country.  In John 10:10, Jesus said, “The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” Germany first country to display Muslim prayer times on official signs Evangelical Focus reports a German town became the first in the country to display Muslim prayer times on its official signs. The municipality of Penzberg previously listed Sunday service times for the Catholic and Lutheran parishes in town. Signage now includes prayer times for the local mosque established in 1990. Muslims with a migrant background make up about eight percent of Germany's population, up from five percent in 2016. New U.S. economic sanctions against Iran The Trump administration announced aggressive economic sanctions against Iran on Monday.  Operation Economic Outcast aims to cut Iran's financial connections with the rest of the world. The sanctions will also affect any country doing business with the regime.  Listen to comments from Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. BESSENT: “We want to make clear here today that no one is above the reach of U.S. sanctions. That if they facilitate transactions and are part of the ecosystem that turns Iranian oil into money, into repression, they will be targeted.” Facebook/Instagram pay $18 billion over addictive algorithms for kids Meta Platforms agreed to pay up to $18 billion over the next decade in a settlement announced yesterday. Nearly every U.S. state accused the social media company of designing its platforms to be addictive to children. The tech giant is being held accountable for the role its platforms played in undermining children's mental health. These platforms include Facebook and Instagram.  California will get the largest sum of $1.5 billion, but several other states will still collect hundreds of millions of dollars each over the decade. The money will be used to pay for legal fees, mental health care for children, after-school programs, and education about the risks of social media use. According to the Associated Press, Meta will eliminate push notifications during weekday school hours and bring in “robust” age-assurance measures and “age-appropriate” content controls to prevent bullying and harmful material about eating disorders and self-harm. The case also argued that Meta violated federal laws by routinely collecting data on children under 13 without their parents' consent. As part of the settlement, Meta agreed to limit teenagers' use of Instagram and Facebook to a couple of hours a day. 1,235 assisted suicide deaths in California last year The state of California reported 1,235 assisted suicide deaths last year. The death toll is up nearly 150 percent over the past five years.  The California End of Life Option Act allows adults, expected to live six months or less, to obtain life-ending drugs. The state has authorized the deaths of at least 6,758 people since the law went into effect in 2016. 3 California homeschoolers sue over prohibition from participation Three homeschool families petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court last week after California excluded them from a state program. Some of California's tuition-free charter schools allow homeschool academy programs. However, families cannot use state funds from these charter schools for religious curriculum.  In one case, the state rejected a grammar exercise simply because it used the sentence: “God sends the rain to help plants grow.”  Acts 14:17 says God “did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from Heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.” Protestant churches are multigenerational Most Protestant churches report being multigenerational.  A survey from Lifeway Research found 91 percent of churchgoers agree their church has a good number of active members from all generations. Seventy-eight percent of pastors also agree.  Being multigenerational was more frequently reported by pastors of larger churches, younger pastors, and evangelical pastors.  Dolly Parton, who died at 80, championed a false gospel And finally, PARTON:  “Workin' 9 to 5, what a way to make a livin' Barely gettin' by, it's all takin' and no givin'” Dolly Parton, the country singer, actress, and businesswoman, died peacefully at her home in Nashville, Tennessee on Tuesday. She was 80 years old. Known as the Queen of Country, the singer-songwriter is among one of the best-selling music artists of all time.  She wrote and sang this song in 1974 which Whitney Houston would later famously cover.  PARTON: “And I will always love you I will always love you.” Parton grew up in a Pentecostal church and described herself as a person of faith.  PARTON: “My grandpa was a preacher. So, my grandpa pastored this little church called the House of Prayer. He was a very positive, uplifting person. And I learned to love Jesus, and learned that Jesus loved me when I was a little bitty kid. “And all those things that Mama used to say, you know, that through God all things are possible. I kept all those things kind of tucked away into my subconscious mind and in my heart. And those are the things that have helped me through the years. I never do anything that I don't pray about it, and I always ask God to lead me and to show me and direct me into what I'm doing.” She was married to her husband Carl Thomas Dean for nearly 60 years until his death in 2025. As a philanthropist, Parton supported children's literacy and medical research. Sadly, she was also known as an advocate for unbiblical causes like homosexual behavior and faux homosexual marriage.  Appearing with Larry King, she defended homosexuality. KING: “Didn't you recently, though, throw support to the [Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender] community?” PARTON: “Oh, I've always encouraged, not encouraged. They've made me the poster child I think only because I'm so outspoken as far as just being accepting of people in general.  “I do not believe that we should criticize and judge other people. I think we should be accepting and loving. We are all God's children. We are who we are, and we should allow, be allowed to be who we are.” Kate Newman, a Christian YouTuber, objected to Parton's bad theology, referencing John 1:12. NEWMAN: “We are not all children of God, contrary to popular belief. We receive the Spirit of adoption from God when we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, and we are led by His Holy Spirit. But until then, we're actually all children of the devil.” Larry King asked Dolly Parton this follow-up question. KING: “Did any of the faith-based communities that deeply believe the other way take umbrage with you?” PARTON: “Oh, absolutely. KING: “They did?” PARTON: “Oh, yes. I get it all the time. I keep saying, ‘Well, if you're the fine Christian that you think you are, why are you judging people? That's God's job. We're not God. We're not judges.' You know, we're supposed to love one another. We're supposed to not judge.  “If you're gay, you're gay. If you're straight, you're straight. And you should be allowed to be, you know, how how you are and who you are.” In 2024, Ericka Andersen wrote a column for The Federalist entitled “There's nothing loving about Dolly Parton's false gospel.” She argued that, “Parton's version of love, which includes condoning immoral sexual behavior  is unaligned with God's vision for humanity. Like so many secularized spiritual leaders, Parton equates love with agreement, but the two are not reciprocal. Love doesn't mean we must accept sinfulness as good to avoid hurting someone's feelings. “To be sure, the culture is on a constant witch hunt for those who would call homosexuality sinful. I understand wanting to avoid the avalanche of criticism, but calling sin out by name isn't judgment. It's adhering to Scripture. “She's right that all should be treated with love and kindness, but when we refuse to label sin a sin, we're doing more harm than good.  The gospel of Dolly Parton is popular with the masses, but don't bank your eternity on it.” Leviticus 18:22 says, “Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.” Close And that's The Worldview on this Thursday, August 27th, in the year of our Lord 2026. Subscribe for free by Spotify, Amazon Music, or by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com.  Plus, you can get the Generations app through Google Play or The App Store. I'm Adam McManus (Adam@TheWorldview.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ.

WELCOME BACK!SO excited to have such a powerhouse of a guest join me this week!I welcome, Winn Claybaugh. Winn is the author of Be Nice (Or Else!) and has been called “one of the best motivational speakers in the country” by CNN's Larry King, who wrote the book's foreword. A business owner for more than 40 years, Winn is the founder, co-owner, and dean of Paul Mitchell Advanced Education, a franchisor of more than 100 cosmetology and barbering schools across the United States. The organization has earned national recognition for both franchise growth and franchisee satisfaction.Since 1995, Winn has interviewed more than 325 leading beauty and business professionals, artists, educators, and mentors through his acclaimed MASTERS series. Today, MASTERS by Winn Claybaugh is available on all major podcast platforms and has surpassed 1 million downloads.Winn's leadership and philanthropy have earned him numerous honors, including the prestigious Ellis Island Medal of Honor, Friendly House's Humanitarian of the Year, Thirst Project's Vision Award, the Coalition to Abolish Slavery and Trafficking's Visionary Leadership Award, and No Limits' Ambassador and Champion of Children awards. He serves on the boards of Bright Pink, Beauty Changes Lives, and the Andrew Gomez Dream Foundation, which he cofounded.Recognized as an influential leader in the beauty industry, American Salon named Winn one of five “Industry Leaders Who Helped Revolutionize Education,” and the North American Hairstyling Awards (NAHA) made him the youngest person ever inducted into its Hall of Leaders.From 2004 to 2025, Winn led the Paul Mitchell School network in raising more than $27 million for charitable causes. Through the network and the Andrew Gomez Dream Foundation, his philanthropic efforts have supported organizations focused on children, health care, cancer research, veterans, disaster relief, education, hunger, housing, and other critical causes, including Children's Miracle Network Hospitals, Dolly Parton's Imagination Library, Gary Sinise Foundation, Habitat for Humanity, Boys & Girls Clubs, City of Hope, and the American Cancer Society.Tune in for his story, leadership, entrepreneurship, family and overall life in general!Contact & Follow Cindy!Follow on Instagram at cindy_novotny, Facebook and LinkedIn for every day inspirational posts.Email at cindynovotny@masterconnection.com

On the whole, the LGBTQ+ community loved and admired Dolly Parton. And she reciprocated; in 2016, she told Larry King, “We are all God's children. We are who we are, and we should be allowed to be who we are.”  Drag performer Jason CoZmo has been impersonating Parton for decades and shares a remembrance of her.And, Meta has to pay $17 billion in a settlement with a number of U.S. states over intentionally getting teenagers addicted to Instagram and Facebook. In addition, the company must make changes to its apps to make them safer for minors. Senior Axios reporter Madison Mills explains more.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

In this ALN Classic Nate Bargatze returns to talk fatherhood, Nashville living, horses, Larry King & his new NETFLIX special “The Tennessee Kid.” #NateBargatze #TheTennesseeKid The About Last Night Podcast features comedian and actor Adam Ray interviewing some of the biggest celebrities in comedy, sport and entertainment! Enjoy full length episodes or watch clips as Adam sits down with some of the biggest names in the industry. Subscribe to the channel and click on the notification bell to be alerted when new episodes air - https://www.youtube.com/c/AboutLastNi... Like and comment on the videos to join the conversation with other fans from around the world! New episodes drop every week so be sure to come back for fresh content as it is released. For tickets to Adam's shows and more visit https://www.adamraycomedy.com You can also follow The About Last Night Podcast and Adam on all of the major social networks: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael Hingson was on the 78th floor of the World Trade Center's North Tower on September 11, 2001, when American Airlines Flight 11 struck the building. Blind from birth, Michael couldn't see the destruction unfolding around him—but at his feet was Roselle, his trusted guide dog.Michael Hingson joins Ric Bratton on This Week in America to discuss his #1 New York Times bestselling book, THUNDER DOG: The True Story of a Blind Man, His Guide Dog, and the Triumph of Trust at Ground Zero.As chaos engulfed the World Trade Center, Michael and Roselle began the long journey down 78 floors and toward safety. While terrified people, falling debris and uncertainty surrounded them, Roselle remained calm. Michael trusted her, Roselle trusted Michael, and together they demonstrated an extraordinary partnership in one of the darkest moments in American history.But Thunder Dog is more than a 9/11 survival story. Michael shares powerful lessons about trust, teamwork, faith, overcoming fear and refusing to allow blindness—or any perceived limitation—to determine what a person can accomplish.Ric and Michael discuss what happened inside the North Tower that morning, the remarkable bond between Michael and Roselle, how they relied on each other to survive, and how Michael's experiences have shaped his message in the years since September 11.The conversation also explores grief, loss and healing, the assumptions people make about blindness and disability, and why telling our stories can help create understanding and meaningful change.Praised by legendary broadcaster Larry King for celebrating "the power of the human and animal bond," Thunder Dog is an unforgettable story of courage, partnership and the extraordinary trust between a man and his guide dog.This Week in America with Ric Bratton is heard on more than 100 radio stations and podcast platforms worldwide, bringing listeners informative and inspiring conversations with authors, experts and thought leaders.For listeners interested in September 11 history, 9/11 survivor stories, guide dogs, blindness and disability awareness, faith, resilience, courage, overcoming adversity and the human-animal bond, don't miss Ric Bratton's compelling conversation with Thunder Dog author Michael Hingson.Keywords:  Michael Hingson, Michael Hingson interview, Thunder Dog, Thunder Dog book, Thunder Dog Michael Hingson, Roselle guide dog, Michael Hingson Roselle, 9/11 survivor, September 11 survivor, World Trade Center survivor, World Trade Center North Tower, September 11 2001, 9/11 stories, Ground Zero, guide dog, guide dogs, service animals, blindness, blind author, disability awareness, human animal bond, faith and trust, courage, resilience, overcoming adversity, survival story, inspirational story, New York Times bestseller, Ric Bratton, This Week in America, This Week in America with Ric Bratton, author interview, inspirational podcast 

Michael Hingson was on the 78th floor of the World Trade Center's North Tower on September 11, 2001, when American Airlines Flight 11 struck the building. Blind from birth, Michael couldn't see the destruction unfolding around him—but at his feet was Roselle, his trusted guide dog.Michael Hingson joins Ric Bratton on This Week in America to discuss his #1 New York Times bestselling book, THUNDER DOG: The True Story of a Blind Man, His Guide Dog, and the Triumph of Trust at Ground Zero.As chaos engulfed the World Trade Center, Michael and Roselle began the long journey down 78 floors and toward safety. While terrified people, falling debris and uncertainty surrounded them, Roselle remained calm. Michael trusted her, Roselle trusted Michael, and together they demonstrated an extraordinary partnership in one of the darkest moments in American history.But Thunder Dog is more than a 9/11 survival story. Michael shares powerful lessons about trust, teamwork, faith, overcoming fear and refusing to allow blindness—or any perceived limitation—to determine what a person can accomplish.Ric and Michael discuss what happened inside the North Tower that morning, the remarkable bond between Michael and Roselle, how they relied on each other to survive, and how Michael's experiences have shaped his message in the years since September 11.The conversation also explores grief, loss and healing, the assumptions people make about blindness and disability, and why telling our stories can help create understanding and meaningful change.Praised by legendary broadcaster Larry King for celebrating "the power of the human and animal bond," Thunder Dog is an unforgettable story of courage, partnership and the extraordinary trust between a man and his guide dog.This Week in America with Ric Bratton is heard on more than 100 radio stations and podcast platforms worldwide, bringing listeners informative and inspiring conversations with authors, experts and thought leaders.For listeners interested in September 11 history, 9/11 survivor stories, guide dogs, blindness and disability awareness, faith, resilience, courage, overcoming adversity and the human-animal bond, don't miss Ric Bratton's compelling conversation with Thunder Dog author Michael Hingson.Keywords:  Michael Hingson, Michael Hingson interview, Thunder Dog, Thunder Dog book, Thunder Dog Michael Hingson, Roselle guide dog, Michael Hingson Roselle, 9/11 survivor, September 11 survivor, World Trade Center survivor, World Trade Center North Tower, September 11 2001, 9/11 stories, Ground Zero, guide dog, guide dogs, service animals, blindness, blind author, disability awareness, human animal bond, faith and trust, courage, resilience, overcoming adversity, survival story, inspirational story, New York Times bestseller, Ric Bratton, This Week in America, This Week in America with Ric Bratton, author interview, inspirational podcast 

THIS IS A PREVIEW. FOR THE FULL EPISODE, GO TO Patreon.com/worstofall According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Media Referenced in this Episode: Bee Movie. Dir. Simon J. Smith and Steve Hickner. 2007. “A Complete History of Bee Movie's Many, Many Memes" by Paris Martineau. New York Magazine. November 2nd, 2017. “Bee Movie: A Seinfeldian Society” by Joe Strike. Animation World. November 2nd, 2007. “How Bee Movie Won 2016” by Laura Bradley. Vanity Fair. December 30th, 2016. TWOAPW theme by Brendan Dalton: Patreon // brendan-dalton.com // brendandalton.bandcamp.com Interstitial: “A Series of Voicemails Left on Jerry Seinfeld's Answering Machine by one Stephen Sondheim, Composer of Musical Theater and Lover of Bees” // Written by A.J. Ditty and Brian Alford // feat. David Armstrong as “Stephen Sondheim” and Brian Alford as “Jerry” Episode edited by Brian Alford. Interstitial edited by A.J. Ditty. Produced by Josh Boerman, A.J. Ditty, and Brian Alford. This podcast was recorded under a SAG-AFTRA Agreement. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Yellow, black. Ooh, black and yellow! Let's shake it up a little. Barry! Breakfast is ready! Coming! Hang on a second. Hello? - Barry? - Adam? - Can you believe this is happening? - I can't. I'll pick you up. Looking sharp. Use the stairs. Your father paid good money for those. Sorry. I'm excited. Here's the graduate. We're very proud of you, son. A perfect report card, all B's. Very proud. Ma! I got a thing going here. - You got lint on your fuzz. - Ow! That's me! - Wave to us! We'll be in row 118,000. - Bye! Barry, I told you, stop flying in the house! - Hey, Adam. - Hey, Barry. - Is that fuzz gel? - A little. Special day, graduation. Never thought I'd make it. Three days grade school, three days high school. Those were awkward. Three days college. I'm glad I took a day and hitchhiked around the hive. You did come back different. - Hi, Barry. - Artie, growing a mustache? Looks good. - Hear about Frankie? - Yeah. - You going to the funeral? - No, I'm not going. Everybody knows, sting someone, you die. Don't waste it on a squirrel. Such a hothead. I guess he could have just gotten out of the way. I love this incorporating an amusement park into our day. That's why we don't need vacations. Boy, quite a bit of pomp… under the circumstances. - Well, Adam, today we are men. - We are! - Bee-men. - Amen! Hallelujah! Students, faculty, distinguished bees, please welcome Dean Buzzwell. Welcome, New Hive City graduating class of… …9:15. That concludes our ceremonies. And begins your career at Honex Industries! Will we pick our job today? I heard it's just orientation. Heads up! Here we go. Keep your hands and antennas inside the tram at all times. - Wonder what it'll be like? - A little scary. Welcome to Honex, a division of Honesco and a part of the Hexagon Group. This is it! Wow. Wow. We know that you, as a bee, have worked your whole life to get to the point where you can work for your whole life. Honey begins when our valiant Pollen Jocks bring the nectar to the hive. Our top-secret formula is automatically color-corrected, scent-adjusted and bubble-contoured into this soothing sweet syrup with its distinctive golden glow you know as… Honey! - That girl was hot. - She's my cousin! - She is? - Yes, we're all cousins. - Right. You're right. - At Honex, we constantly strive to improve every aspect of bee existence. These bees are stress-testing a new helmet technology. - What do you think he makes? - Not enough. Here we have our latest advancement, the Krelman. - What does that do? - Oatches that little strand of honey that hangs after you pour it. Saves us millions. Oan anyone work on the Krelman? Of course. Most bee jobs are small ones. But bees know that every small job, if it's done well, means a lot. But choose carefully because you'll stay in the job you pick for the rest of your life. The same job the rest of your life? I didn't know that. What's the difference? You'll be happy to know that bees, as a species, haven't had one day off in 27 million years. So you'll just work us to death? We'll sure try. Wow! That blew my mind! “What's the difference?” How can you say that? One job forever? That's an insane choice to have to make. I'm relieved. Now we only have to make one decision in life. But, Adam, how could they never have told us that? Why would you question anything? We're bees. We're the most perfectly functioning society on Earth. You ever think maybe things work a little too well here? Like what? Give me one example. I don't know. But you know what I'm talking about. Please clear the gate. Royal Nectar Force on approach. Wait a second. Oheck it out. - Hey, those are Pollen Jocks! - Wow. I've never seen them this close. They know what it's like outside the hive. Yeah, but some don't come back. - Hey, Jocks! - Hi, Jocks! You guys did great! You're monsters! You're sky freaks! I love it! I love it! - I wonder where they were. - I don't know. Their day's not planned. Outside the hive, flying who knows where, doing who knows what. You can'tjust decide to be a Pollen Jock. You have to be bred for that. Right. Look. That's more pollen than you and I will see in a lifetime. It's just a status symbol. Bees make too much of it. Perhaps. Unless you're wearing it and the ladies see you wearing it. Those ladies? Aren't they our cousins too? Distant. Distant. Look at these two. - Oouple of Hive Harrys. - Let's have fun with them. It must be dangerous being a Pollen Jock. Yeah. Once a bear pinned me against a mushroom! He had a paw on my throat, and with the other, he was slapping me! - Oh, my! - I never thought I'd knock him out. What were you doing during this? Trying to alert the authorities. I can autograph that. A little gusty out there today, wasn't it, comrades? Yeah. Gusty. We're hitting a sunflower patch six miles from here tomorrow. - Six miles, huh? - Barry! A puddle jump for us, but maybe you're not up for it. - Maybe I am. - You are not! We're going 0900 at J-Gate. What do you think, buzzy-boy? Are you bee enough? I might be. It all depends on what 0900 means. Hey, Honex! Dad, you surprised me. You decide what you're interested in? - Well, there's a lot of choices. - But you only get one. Do you ever get bored doing the same job every day? Son, let me tell you about stirring. You grab that stick, and you just move it around, and you stir it around. You get yourself into a rhythm. It's a beautiful thing. You know, Dad, the more I think about it, maybe the honey field just isn't right for me. You were thinking of what, making balloon animals? That's a bad job for a guy with a stinger. Janet, your son's not sure he wants to go into honey! - Barry, you are so funny sometimes. - I'm not trying to be funny. You're not funny! You're going into honey. Our son, the stirrer! - You're gonna be a stirrer? - No one's listening to me! Wait till you see the sticks I have. I could say anything right now. I'm gonna get an ant tattoo! Let's open some honey and celebrate! Maybe I'll pierce my thorax. Shave my antennae. Shack up with a grasshopper. Get a gold tooth and call everybody “dawg”! I'm so proud. - We're starting work today! - Today's the day. Oome on! All the good jobs will be gone. Yeah, right. Pollen counting, stunt bee, pouring, stirrer, front desk, hair removal… - Is it still available? - Hang on. Two left! One of them's yours! Oongratulations! Step to the side. - What'd you get? - Picking crud out. Stellar! Wow! Oouple of newbies? Yes, sir! Our first day! We are ready! Make your choice. - You want to go first? - No, you go. Oh, my. What's available? Restroom attendant's open, not for the reason you think. - Any chance of getting the Krelman? - Sure, you're on. I'm sorry, the Krelman just closed out. Wax monkey's always open. The Krelman opened up again. What happened? A bee died. Makes an opening. See? He's dead. Another dead one. Deady. Deadified. Two more dead. Dead from the neck up. Dead from the neck down. That's life! Oh, this is so hard! Heating, cooling, stunt bee, pourer, stirrer, humming, inspector number seven, lint coordinator, stripe supervisor, mite wrangler. Barry, what do you think I should… Barry? Barry! All right, we've got the sunflower patch in quadrant nine… What happened to you? Where are you? - I'm going out. - Out? Out where? - Out there. - Oh, no! I have to, before I go to work for the rest of my life. You're gonna die! You're crazy! Hello? Another call coming in. If anyone's feeling brave, there's a Korean deli on 83rd that gets their roses today. Hey, guys. - Look at that. - Isn't that the kid we saw yesterday? Hold it, son, flight deck's restricted. It's OK, Lou. We're gonna take him up. Really? Feeling lucky, are you? Sign here, here. Just initial that. - Thank you. - OK. You got a rain advisory today, and as you all know, bees cannot fly in rain. So be careful. As always, watch your brooms, hockey sticks, dogs, birds, bears and bats. Also, I got a couple of reports of root beer being poured on us. Murphy's in a home because of it, babbling like a cicada! - That's awful. - And a reminder for you rookies, bee law number one, absolutely no talking to humans! All right, launch positions! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz! Black and yellow! Hello! You ready for this, hot shot? Yeah. Yeah, bring it on. Wind, check. - Antennae, check. - Nectar pack, check. - Wings, check. - Stinger, check. Scared out of my shorts, check. OK, ladies, let's move it out! Pound those petunias, you striped stem-suckers! All of you, drain those flowers! Wow! I'm out! I can't believe I'm out! So blue. I feel so fast and free! Box kite! Wow! Flowers! This is Blue Leader. We have roses visual. Bring it around 30 degrees and hold. Roses! 30 degrees, roger. Bringing it around. Stand to the side, kid. It's got a bit of a kick. That is one nectar collector! - Ever see pollination up close? - No, sir. I pick up some pollen here, sprinkle it over here. Maybe a dash over there, a pinch on that one. See that? It's a little bit of magic. That's amazing. Why do we do that? That's pollen power. More pollen, more flowers, more nectar, more honey for us. Cool. I'm picking up a lot of bright yellow. Oould be daisies. Don't we need those? Oopy that visual. Wait. One of these flowers seems to be on the move. Say again? You're reporting a moving flower? Affirmative. That was on the line! This is the coolest. What is it? I don't know, but I'm loving this color. It smells good. Not like a flower, but I like it. Yeah, fuzzy. Ohemical-y. Oareful, guys. It's a little grabby. My sweet lord of bees! Oandy-brain, get off there! Problem! - Guys! - This could be bad. Affirmative. Very close. Gonna hurt. Mama's little boy. You are way out of position, rookie! Ooming in at you like a missile! Help me! I don't think these are flowers. - Should we tell him? - I think he knows. What is this?! Match point! You can start packing up, honey, because you're about to eat it! Yowser! Gross. There's a bee in the car! - Do something! - I'm driving! - Hi, bee. - He's back here! He's going to sting me! Nobody move. If you don't move, he won't sting you. Freeze! He blinked! Spray him, Granny! What are you doing?! Wow… the tension level out here is unbelievable. I gotta get home. Oan't fly in rain. Oan't fly in rain. Oan't fly in rain. Mayday! Mayday! Bee going down! Ken, could you close the window please? Ken, could you close the window please? Oheck out my new resume. I made it into a fold-out brochure. You see? Folds out. Oh, no. More humans. I don't need this. What was that? Maybe this time. This time. This time. This time! This time! This… Drapes! That is diabolical. It's fantastic. It's got all my special skills, even my top-ten favorite movies. What's number one? Star Wars? Nah, I don't go for that… …kind of stuff. No wonder we shouldn't talk to them. They're out of their minds. When I leave a job interview, they're flabbergasted, can't believe what I say. There's the sun. Maybe that's a way out. I don't remember the sun having a big 75 on it. I predicted global warming. I could feel it getting hotter. At first I thought it was just me. Wait! Stop! Bee! Stand back. These are winter boots. Wait! Don't kill him! You know I'm allergic to them! This thing could kill me! Why does his life have less value than yours? Why does his life have any less value than mine? Is that your statement? I'm just saying all life has value. You don't know what he's capable of feeling. My brochure! There you go, little guy. I'm not scared of him. It's an allergic thing. Put that on your resume brochure. My whole face could puff up. Make it one of your special skills. Knocking someone out is also a special skill. Right. Bye, Vanessa. Thanks. - Vanessa, next week? Yogurt night? - Sure, Ken. You know, whatever. - You could put carob chips on there. - Bye. - Supposed to be less calories. - Bye. I gotta say something. She saved my life. I gotta say something. All right, here it goes. Nah. What would I say? I could really get in trouble. It's a bee law. You're not supposed to talk to a human. I can't believe I'm doing this. I've got to. Oh, I can't do it. Oome on! No. Yes. No. Do it. I can't. How should I start it? “You like jazz?” No, that's no good. Here she comes! Speak, you fool! Hi! I'm sorry. - You're talking. - Yes, I know. You're talking! I'm so sorry. No, it's OK. It's fine. I know I'm dreaming. But I don't recall going to bed. Well, I'm sure this is very disconcerting. This is a bit of a surprise to me. I mean, you're a bee! I am. And I'm not supposed to be doing this, but they were all trying to kill me. And if it wasn't for you… I had to thank you. It's just how I was raised. That was a little weird. - I'm talking with a bee. - Yeah. I'm talking to a bee. And the bee is talking to me! I just want to say I'm grateful. I'll leave now. - Wait! How did you learn to do that? - What? The talking thing. Same way you did, I guess. “Mama, Dada, honey.” You pick it up. - That's very funny. - Yeah. Bees are funny. If we didn't laugh, we'd cry with what we have to deal with. Anyway… Oan I… …get you something? - Like what? I don't know. I mean… I don't know. Ooffee? I don't want to put you out. It's no trouble. It takes two minutes. - It's just coffee. - I hate to impose. - Don't be ridiculous! - Actually, I would love a cup. Hey, you want rum cake? - I shouldn't. - Have some. - No, I can't. - Oome on! I'm trying to lose a couple micrograms. - Where? - These stripes don't help. You look great! I don't know if you know anything about fashion. Are you all right? No. He's making the tie in the cab as they're flying up Madison. He finally gets there. He runs up the steps into the church. The wedding is on. And he says, “Watermelon? I thought you said Guatemalan. Why would I marry a watermelon?” Is that a bee joke? That's the kind of stuff we do. Yeah, different. So, what are you gonna do, Barry? About work? I don't know. I want to do my part for the hive, but I can't do it the way they want. I know how you feel. - You do? - Sure. My parents wanted me to be a lawyer or a doctor, but I wanted to be a florist. - Really? - My only interest is flowers. Our new queen was just elected with that same campaign slogan. Anyway, if you look… There's my hive right there. See it? You're in Sheep Meadow! Yes! I'm right off the Turtle Pond! No way! I know that area. I lost a toe ring there once. - Why do girls put rings on their toes? - Why not? - It's like putting a hat on your knee. - Maybe I'll try that. - You all right, ma'am? - Oh, yeah. Fine. Just having two cups of coffee! Anyway, this has been great. Thanks for the coffee. Yeah, it's no trouble. Sorry I couldn't finish it. If I did, I'd be up the rest of my life. Are you…? Oan I take a piece of this with me? Sure! Here, have a crumb. - Thanks! - Yeah. All right. Well, then… I guess I'll see you around. Or not. OK, Barry. And thank you so much again… for before. Oh, that? That was nothing. Well, not nothing, but… Anyway… This can't possibly work. He's all set to go. We may as well try it. OK, Dave, pull the chute. - Sounds amazing. - It was amazing! It was the scariest, happiest moment of my life. Humans! I can't believe you were with humans! Giant, scary humans! What were they like? Huge and crazy. They talk crazy. They eat crazy giant things. They drive crazy. - Do they try and kill you, like on TV? - Some of them. But some of them don't. - How'd you get back? - Poodle. You did it, and I'm glad. You saw whatever you wanted to see. You had your “experience.” Now you can pick out yourjob and be normal. - Well… - Well? Well, I met someone. You did? Was she Bee-ish? - A wasp?! Your parents will kill you! - No, no, no, not a wasp. - Spider? - I'm not attracted to spiders. I know it's the hottest thing, with the eight legs and all. I can't get by that face. So who is she? She's… human. No, no. That's a bee law. You wouldn't break a bee law. - Her name's Vanessa. - Oh, boy. She's so nice. And she's a florist! Oh, no! You're dating a human florist! We're not dating. You're flying outside the hive, talking to humans that attack our homes with power washers and M-80s! One-eighth a stick of dynamite! She saved my life! And she understands me. This is over! Eat this. This is not over! What was that? - They call it a crumb. - It was so stingin' stripey! And that's not what they eat. That's what falls off what they eat! - You know what a Oinnabon is? - No. It's bread and cinnamon and frosting. They heat it up… Sit down! …really hot! - Listen to me! We are not them! We're us. There's us and there's them! Yes, but who can deny the heart that is yearning? There's no yearning. Stop yearning. Listen to me! You have got to start thinking bee, my friend. Thinking bee! - Thinking bee. - Thinking bee. Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! There he is. He's in the pool. You know what your problem is, Barry? I gotta start thinking bee? How much longer will this go on? It's been three days! Why aren't you working? I've got a lot of big life decisions to think about. What life? You have no life! You have no job. You're barely a bee! Would it kill you to make a little honey? Barry, come out. Your father's talking to you. Martin, would you talk to him? Barry, I'm talking to you! You coming? Got everything? All set! Go ahead. I'll catch up. Don't be too long. Watch this! Vanessa! - We're still here. - I told you not to yell at him. He doesn't respond to yelling! - Then why yell at me? - Because you don't listen! I'm not listening to this. Sorry, I've gotta go. - Where are you going? - I'm meeting a friend. A girl? Is this why you can't decide? Bye. I just hope she's Bee-ish. They have a huge parade of flowers every year in Pasadena? To be in the Tournament of Roses, that's every florist's dream! Up on a float, surrounded by flowers, crowds cheering. A tournament. Do the roses compete in athletic events? No. All right, I've got one. How come you don't fly everywhere? It's exhausting. Why don't you run everywhere? It's faster. Yeah, OK, I see, I see. All right, your turn. TiVo. You can just freeze live TV? That's insane! You don't have that? We have Hivo, but it's a disease. It's a horrible, horrible disease. Oh, my. Dumb bees! You must want to sting all those jerks. We try not to sting. It's usually fatal for us. So you have to watch your temper. Very carefully. You kick a wall, take a walk, write an angry letter and throw it out. Work through it like any emotion: Anger, jealousy, lust. Oh, my goodness! Are you OK? Yeah. - What is wrong with you?! - It's a bug. He's not bothering anybody. Get out of here, you creep! What was that? A Pic ‘N' Save circular? Yeah, it was. How did you know? It felt like about 10 pages. Seventy-five is pretty much our limit. You've really got that down to a science. - I lost a cousin to Italian Vogue. - I'll bet. What in the name of Mighty Hercules is this? How did this get here? Oute Bee, Golden Blossom, Ray Liotta Private Select? - Is he that actor? - I never heard of him. - Why is this here? - For people. We eat it. You don't have enough food of your own? - Well, yes. - How do you get it? - Bees make it. - I know who makes it! And it's hard to make it! There's heating, cooling, stirring. You need a whole Krelman thing! - It's organic. - It's our-ganic! It's just honey, Barry. Just what?! Bees don't know about this! This is stealing! A lot of stealing! You've taken our homes, schools, hospitals! This is all we have! And it's on sale?! I'm getting to the bottom of this. I'm getting to the bottom of all of this! Hey, Hector. - You almost done? - Almost. He is here. I sense it. Well, I guess I'll go home now and just leave this nice honey out, with no one around. You're busted, box boy! I knew I heard something. So you can talk! I can talk. And now you'll start talking! Where you getting the sweet stuff? Who's your supplier? I don't understand. I thought we were friends. The last thing we want to do is upset bees! You're too late! It's ours now! You, sir, have crossed the wrong sword! You, sir, will be lunch for my iguana, Ignacio! Where is the honey coming from? Tell me where! Honey Farms! It comes from Honey Farms! Orazy person! What horrible thing has happened here? These faces, they never knew what hit them. And now they're on the road to nowhere! Just keep still. What? You're not dead? Do I look dead? They will wipe anything that moves. Where you headed? To Honey Farms. I am onto something huge here. I'm going to Alaska. Moose blood, crazy stuff. Blows your head off! I'm going to Tacoma. - And you? - He really is dead. All right. Uh-oh! - What is that?! - Oh, no! - A wiper! Triple blade! - Triple blade? Jump on! It's your only chance, bee! Why does everything have to be so doggone clean?! How much do you people need to see?! Open your eyes! Stick your head out the window! From NPR News in Washington, I'm Carl Kasell. But don't kill no more bugs! - Bee! - Moose blood guy!! - You hear something? - Like what? Like tiny screaming. Turn off the radio. Whassup, bee boy? Hey, Blood. Just a row of honey jars, as far as the eye could see. Wow! I assume wherever this truck goes is where they're getting it. I mean, that honey's ours. - Bees hang tight. - We're all jammed in. It's a close community. Not us, man. We on our own. Every mosquito on his own. - What if you get in trouble? - You a mosquito, you in trouble. Nobody likes us. They just smack. See a mosquito, smack, smack! At least you're out in the world. You must meet girls. Mosquito girls try to trade up, get with a moth, dragonfly. Mosquito girl don't want no mosquito. You got to be kidding me! Mooseblood's about to leave the building! So long, bee! - Hey, guys! - Mooseblood! I knew I'd catch y'all down here. Did you bring your crazy straw? We throw it in jars, slap a label on it, and it's pretty much pure profit. What is this place? A bee's got a brain the size of a pinhead. They are pinheads! Pinhead. - Oheck out the new smoker. - Oh, sweet. That's the one you want. The Thomas 3000! Smoker? Ninety puffs a minute, semi-automatic. Twice the nicotine, all the tar. A couple breaths of this knocks them right out. They make the honey, and we make the money. “They make the honey, and we make the money”? Oh, my! What's going on? Are you OK? Yeah. It doesn't last too long. Do you know you're in a fake hive with fake walls? Our queen was moved here. We had no choice. This is your queen? That's a man in women's clothes! That's a drag queen! What is this? Oh, no! There's hundreds of them! Bee honey. Our honey is being brazenly stolen on a massive scale! This is worse than anything bears have done! I intend to do something. Oh, Barry, stop. Who told you humans are taking our honey? That's a rumor. Do these look like rumors? That's a conspiracy theory. These are obviously doctored photos. How did you get mixed up in this? He's been talking to humans. - What? - Talking to humans?! He has a human girlfriend. And they make out! Make out? Barry! We do not. - You wish you could. - Whose side are you on? The bees! I dated a cricket once in San Antonio. Those crazy legs kept me up all night. Barry, this is what you want to do with your life? I want to do it for all our lives. Nobody works harder than bees! Dad, I remember you coming home so overworked your hands were still stirring. You couldn't stop. I remember that. What right do they have to our honey? We live on two cups a year. They put it in lip balm for no reason whatsoever! Even if it's true, what can one bee do? Sting them where it really hurts. In the face! The eye! - That would hurt. - No. Up the nose? That's a killer. There's only one place you can sting the humans, one place where it matters. Hive at Five, the hive's only full-hour action news source. No more bee beards! With Bob Bumble at the anchor desk. Weather with Storm Stinger. Sports with Buzz Larvi. And Jeanette Chung. - Good evening. I'm Bob Bumble. - And I'm Jeanette Chung. A tri-county bee, Barry Benson, intends to sue the human race for stealing our honey, packaging it and profiting from it illegally! Tomorrow night on Bee Larry King, we'll have three former queens here in our studio, discussing their new book, Classy Ladies, out this week on Hexagon. Tonight we're talking to Barry Benson. Did you ever think, “I'm a kid from the hive. I can't do this”? Bees have never been afraid to change the world. What about Bee Columbus? Bee Gandhi? Bee Jesus? Where I'm from, we'd never sue humans. We were thinking of stickball or candy stores. How old are you? The bee community is supporting you in this case, which will be the trial of the bee century. You know, they have a Larry King in the human world too. It's a common name. Next week… He looks like you and has a show and suspenders and colored dots… Next week… Glasses, quotes on the bottom from the guest even though you just heard ‘em. Bear Week next week! They're scary, hairy and here live. Always leans forward, pointy shoulders, squinty eyes, very Jewish. In tennis, you attack at the point of weakness! It was my grandmother, Ken. She's 81. Honey, her backhand's a joke! I'm not gonna take advantage of that? Quiet, please. Actual work going on here. - Is that that same bee? - Yes, it is! I'm helping him sue the human race. - Hello. - Hello, bee. This is Ken. Yeah, I remember you. Timberland, size ten and a half. Vibram sole, I believe. Why does he talk again? Listen, you better go ‘cause we're really busy working. But it's our yogurt night! Bye-bye. Why is yogurt night so difficult?! You poor thing. You two have been at this for hours! Yes, and Adam here has been a huge help. - Frosting… - How many sugars? Just one. I try not to use the competition. So why are you helping me? Bees have good qualities. And it takes my mind off the shop. Instead of flowers, people are giving balloon bouquets now. Those are great, if you're three. And artificial flowers. - Oh, those just get me psychotic! - Yeah, me too. Bent stingers, pointless pollination. Bees must hate those fake things! Nothing worse than a daffodil that's had work done. Maybe this could make up for it a little bit. - This lawsuit's a pretty big deal. - I guess. You sure you want to go through with it? Am I sure? When I'm done with the humans, they won't be able to say, “Honey, I'm home,” without paying a royalty! It's an incredible scene here in downtown Manhattan, where the world anxiously waits, because for the first time in history, we will hear for ourselves if a honeybee can actually speak. What have we gotten into here, Barry? It's pretty big, isn't it? I can't believe how many humans don't work during the day. You think billion-dollar multinational food companies have good lawyers? Everybody needs to stay behind the barricade. - What's the matter? - I don't know, I just got a chill. Well, if it isn't the bee team. You boys work on this? All rise! The Honorable Judge Bumbleton presiding. All right. Case number 4475, Superior Court of New York, Barry Bee Benson v. The Honey Industry is now in session. Mr. Montgomery, you're representing the five food companies collectively? A privilege. Mr. Benson… you're representing all the bees of the world? I'm kidding. Yes, Your Honor, we're ready to proceed. Mr. Montgomery, your opening statement, please. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my grandmother was a simple woman. Born on a farm, she believed it was man's divine right to benefit from the bounty of nature God put before us. If we lived in the topsy-turvy world Mr. Benson imagines, just think of what would it mean. I would have to negotiate with the silkworm for the elastic in my britches! Talking bee! How do we know this isn't some sort of holographic motion-picture-capture Hollywood wizardry? They could be using laser beams! Robotics! Ventriloquism! Oloning! For all we know, he could be on steroids! Mr. Benson? Ladies and gentlemen, there's no trickery here. I'm just an ordinary bee. Honey's pretty important to me. It's important to all bees. We invented it! We make it. And we protect it with our lives. Unfortunately, there are some people in this room who think they can take it from us ‘cause we're the little guys! I'm hoping that, after this is all over, you'll see how, by taking our honey, you not only take everything we have but everything we are! I wish he'd dress like that all the time. So nice! Oall your first witness. So, Mr. Klauss Vanderhayden of Honey Farms, big company you have. I suppose so. I see you also own Honeyburton and Honron! Yes, they provide beekeepers for our farms. Beekeeper. I find that to be a very disturbing term. I don't imagine you employ any bee-free-ers, do you? - No. - I couldn't hear you. - No. - No. Because you don't free bees. You keep bees. Not only that, it seems you thought a bear would be an appropriate image for a jar of honey. They're very lovable creatures. Yogi Bear, Fozzie Bear, Build-A-Bear. You mean like this? Bears kill bees! How'd you like his head crashing through your living room?! Biting into your couch! Spitting out your throw pillows! OK, that's enough. Take him away. So, Mr. Sting, thank you for being here. Your name intrigues me. - Where have I heard it before? - I was with a band called The Police. But you've never been a police officer, have you? No, I haven't. No, you haven't. And so here we have yet another example of bee culture casually stolen by a human for nothing more than a prance-about stage name. Oh, please. Have you ever been stung, Mr. Sting? Because I'm feeling a little stung, Sting. Or should I say… Mr. Gordon M. Sumner! That's not his real name?! You idiots! Mr. Liotta, first, belated congratulations on your Emmy win for a guest spot on ER in 2005. Thank you. Thank you. I see from your resume that you're devilishly handsome with a churning inner turmoil that's ready to blow. I enjoy what I do. Is that a crime? Not yet it isn't. But is this what it's come to for you? Exploiting tiny, helpless bees so you don't have to rehearse your part and learn your lines, sir? Watch it, Benson! I could blow right now! This isn't a goodfella. This is a badfella! Why doesn't someone just step on this creep, and we can all go home?! - Order in this court! - You're all thinking it! Order! Order, I say! - Say it! - Mr. Liotta, please sit down! I think it was awfully nice of that bear to pitch in like that. I think the jury's on our side. Are we doing everything right, legally? I'm a florist. Right. Well, here's to a great team. To a great team! Well, hello. - Ken! - Hello. I didn't think you were coming. No, I was just late. I tried to call, but… the battery. I didn't want all this to go to waste, so I called Barry. Luckily, he was free. Oh, that was lucky. There's a little left. I could heat it up. Yeah, heat it up, sure, whatever. So I hear you're quite a tennis player. I'm not much for the game myself. The ball's a little grabby. That's where I usually sit. Right… there. Ken, Barry was looking at your resume, and he agreed with me that eating with chopsticks isn't really a special skill. You think I don't see what you're doing? I know how hard it is to find the rightjob. We have that in common. Do we? Bees have 100 percent employment, but we do jobs like taking the crud out. That's just what I was thinking about doing. Ken, I let Barry borrow your razor for his fuzz. I hope that was all right. I'm going to drain the old stinger. Yeah, you do that. Look at that. You know, I've just about had it with your little mind games. - What's that? - Italian Vogue. Mamma mia, that's a lot of pages. A lot of ads. Remember what Van said, why is your life more valuable than mine? Funny, I just can't seem to recall that! I think something stinks in here! I love the smell of flowers. How do you like the smell of flames?! Not as much. Water bug! Not taking sides! Ken, I'm wearing a Ohapstick hat! This is pathetic! I've got issues! Well, well, well, a royal flush! - You're bluffing. - Am I? Surf's up, dude! Poo water! That bowl is gnarly. Except for those dirty yellow rings! Kenneth! What are you doing?! You know, I don't even like honey! I don't eat it! We need to talk! He's just a little bee! And he happens to be the nicest bee I've met in a long time! Long time? What are you talking about?! Are there other bugs in your life? No, but there are other things bugging me in life. And you're one of them! Fine! Talking bees, no yogurt night… My nerves are fried from riding on this emotional roller coaster! Goodbye, Ken. And for your information, I prefer sugar-free, artificial sweeteners made by man! I'm sorry about all that. I know it's got an aftertaste! I like it! I always felt there was some kind of barrier between Ken and me. I couldn't overcome it. Oh, well. Are you OK for the trial? I believe Mr. Montgomery is about out of ideas. We would like to call Mr. Barry Benson Bee to the stand. Good idea! You can really see why he's considered one of the best lawyers… Yeah. Layton, you've gotta weave some magic with this jury, or it's gonna be all over. Don't worry. The only thing I have to do to turn this jury around is to remind them of what they don't like about bees. - You got the tweezers? - Are you allergic? Only to losing, son. Only to losing. Mr. Benson Bee, I'll ask you what I think we'd all like to know. What exactly is your relationship to that woman? We're friends. - Good friends? - Yes. How good? Do you live together? Wait a minute… Are you her little… …bedbug? I've seen a bee documentary or two. From what I understand, doesn't your queen give birth to all the bee children? - Yeah, but… - So those aren't your real parents! - Oh, Barry… - Yes, they are! Hold me back! You're an illegitimate bee, aren't you, Benson? He's denouncing bees! Don't y'all date your cousins? - Objection! - I'm going to pincushion this guy! Adam, don't! It's what he wants! Oh, I'm hit!! Oh, lordy, I am hit! Order! Order! The venom! The venom is coursing through my veins! I have been felled by a winged beast of destruction! You see? You can't treat them like equals! They're striped savages! Stinging's the only thing they know! It's their way! - Adam, stay with me. - I can't feel my legs. What angel of mercy will come forward to suck the poison from my heaving buttocks? I will have order in this court. Order! Order, please! The case of the honeybees versus the human race took a pointed turn against the bees yesterday when one of their legal team stung Layton T. Montgomery. - Hey, buddy. - Hey. - Is there much pain? - Yeah. I… I blew the whole case, didn't I? It doesn't matter. What matters is you're alive. You could have died. I'd be better off dead. Look at me. They got it from the cafeteria downstairs, in a tuna sandwich. Look, there's a little celery still on it. What was it like to sting someone? I can't explain it. It was all… All adrenaline and then… and then ecstasy! All right. You think it was all a trap? Of course. I'm sorry. I flew us right into this. What were we thinking? Look at us. We're just a couple of bugs in this world. What will the humans do to us if they win? I don't know. I hear they put the roaches in motels. That doesn't sound so bad. Adam, they check in, but they don't check out! Oh, my. Oould you get a nurse to close that window? - Why? - The smoke. Bees don't smoke. Right. Bees don't smoke. Bees don't smoke! But some bees are smoking. That's it! That's our case! It is? It's not over? Get dressed. I've gotta go somewhere. Get back to the court and stall. Stall any way you can. And assuming you've done step correctly, you're ready for the tub. Mr. Flayman. Yes? Yes, Your Honor! Where is the rest of your team? Well, Your Honor, it's interesting. Bees are trained to fly haphazardly, and as a result, we don't make very good time. I actually heard a funny story about… Your Honor, haven't these ridiculous bugs taken up enough of this court's valuable time? How much longer will we allow these absurd shenanigans to go on? They have presented no compelling evidence to support their charges against my clients, who run legitimate businesses. I move for a complete dismissal of this entire case! Mr. Flayman, I'm afraid I'm going to have to consider Mr. Montgomery's motion. But you can't! We have a terrific case. Where is your proof? Where is the evidence? Show me the smoking gun! Hold it, Your Honor! You want a smoking gun? Here is your smoking gun. What is that? It's a bee smoker! What, this? This harmless little contraption? This couldn't hurt a fly, let alone a bee. Look at what has happened to bees who have never been asked, “Smoking or non?” Is this what nature intended for us? To be forcibly addicted to smoke machines and man-made wooden slat work camps? Living out our lives as honey slaves to the white man? - What are we gonna do? - He's playing the species card. Ladies and gentlemen, please, free these bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! Free the bees! The court finds in favor of the bees! Vanessa, we won! I knew you could do it! High-five! Sorry. I'm OK! You know what this means? All the honey will finally belong to the bees. Now we won't have to work so hard all the time. This is an unholy perversion of the balance of nature, Benson. You'll regret this. Barry, how much honey is out there? All right. One at a time. Barry, who are you wearing? My sweater is Ralph Lauren, and I have no pants. - What if Montgomery's right? - What do you mean? We've been living the bee way a long time, 27 million years. Oongratulations on your victory. What will you demand as a settlement? First, we'll demand a complete shutdown of all bee work camps. Then we want back the honey that was ours to begin with, every last drop. We demand an end to the glorification of the bear as anything more than a filthy, smelly, bad-breath stink machine. We're all aware of what they do in the woods. Wait for my signal. Take him out. He'll have nauseous for a few hours, then he'll be fine. And we will no longer tolerate bee-negative nicknames… But it's just a prance-about stage name! …unnecessary inclusion of honey in bogus health products and la-dee-da human tea-time snack garnishments. Oan't breathe. Bring it in, boys! Hold it right there! Good. Tap it. Mr. Buzzwell, we just passed three cups, and there's gallons more coming! - I think we need to shut down! - Shut down? We've never shut down. Shut down honey production! Stop making honey! Turn your key, sir! What do we do now? Oannonball! We're shutting honey production! Mission abort. Aborting pollination and nectar detail. Returning to base. Adam, you wouldn't believe how much honey was out there. Oh, yeah? What's going on? Where is everybody? - Are they out celebrating? - They're home. They don't know what to do. Laying out, sleeping in. I heard your Uncle Oarl was on his way to San Antonio with a cricket. At least we got our honey back. Sometimes I think, so what if humans liked our honey? Who wouldn't? It's the greatest thing in the world! I was excited to be part of making it. This was my new desk. This was my new job. I wanted to do it really well. And now… Now I can't. I don't understand why they're not happy. I thought their lives would be better! They're doing nothing. It's amazing. Honey really changes people. You don't have any idea what's going on, do you? - What did you want to show me? - This. What happened here? That is not the half of it. Oh, no. Oh, my. They're all wilting. Doesn't look very good, does it? No. And whose fault do you think that is? You know, I'm gonna guess bees. Bees? Specifically, me. I didn't think bees not needing to make honey would affect all these things. It's notjust flowers. Fruits, vegetables, they all need bees. That's our whole SAT test right there. Take away produce, that affects the entire animal kingdom. And then, of course… The human species? So if there's no more pollination, it could all just go south here, couldn't it? I know this is also partly my fault. How about a suicide pact? How do we do it? - I'll sting you, you step on me. - That just kills you twice. Right, right. Listen, Barry… sorry, but I gotta get going. I had to open my mouth and talk. Vanessa? Vanessa? Why are you leaving? Where are you going? To the final Tournament of Roses parade in Pasadena. They've moved it to this weekend because all the flowers are dying. It's the last chance I'll ever have to see it. Vanessa, I just wanna say I'm sorry. I never meant it to turn out like this. I know. Me neither. Tournament of Roses. Roses can't do sports. Wait a minute. Roses. Roses? Roses! Vanessa! Roses?! Barry? - Roses are flowers! - Yes, they are. Flowers, bees, pollen! I know. That's why this is the last parade. Maybe not. Oould you ask him to slow down? Oould you slow down? Barry! OK, I made a huge mistake. This is a total disaster, all my fault. Yes, it kind of is. I've ruined the planet. I wanted to help you with the flower shop. I've made it worse. Actually, it's completely closed down. I thought maybe you were remodeling. But I have another idea, and it's greater than my previous ideas combined. I don't want to hear it! All right, they have the roses, the roses have the pollen. I know every bee, plant and flower bud in this park. All we gotta do is get what they've got back here with what we've got. - Bees. - Park. - Pollen! - Flowers. - Repollination! - Across the nation! Tournament of Roses, Pasadena, Oalifornia. They've got nothing but flowers, floats and cotton candy. Security will be tight. I have an idea. Vanessa Bloome, FTD. Official floral business. It's real. Sorry, ma'am. Nice brooch. Thank you. It was a gift. Once inside, we just pick the right float. How about The Princess and the Pea? I could be the princess, and you could be the pea! Yes, I got it. - Where should I sit? - What are you? - I believe I'm the pea. - The pea? It goes under the mattresses. - Not in this fairy tale, sweetheart. - I'm getting the marshal. You do that! This whole parade is a fiasco! Let's see what this baby'll do. Hey, what are you doing?! Then all we do is blend in with traffic… …without arousing suspicion. Once at the airport, there's no stopping us. Stop! Security. - You and your insect pack your float? - Yes. Has it been in your possession the entire time? Would you remove your shoes? - Remove your stinger. - It's part of me. I know. Just having some fun. Enjoy your flight. Then if we're lucky, we'll have just enough pollen to do the job. Oan you believe how lucky we are? We have just enough pollen to do the job! I think this is gonna work. It's got to work. Attention, passengers, this is Oaptain Scott. We have a bit of bad weather in New York. It looks like we'll experience a couple hours delay. Barry, these are cut flowers with no water. They'll never make it. I gotta get up there and talk to them. Be careful. Oan I get help with the Sky Mall magazine? I'd like to order the talking inflatable nose and ear hair trimmer. Oaptain, I'm in a real situation. - What'd you say, Hal? - Nothing. Bee! Don't freak out! My entire species… What are you doing? - Wait a minute! I'm an attorney! - Who's an attorney? Don't move. Oh, Barry. Good afternoon, passengers. This is your captain. Would a Miss Vanessa Bloome in 24B please report to the cockpit? And please hurry! What happened here? There was a DustBuster, a toupee, a life raft exploded. One's bald, one's in a boat, they're both unconscious! - Is that another bee joke? - No! No one's flying the plane! This is JFK control tower, Flight 356. What's your status? This is Vanessa Bloome. I'm a florist from New York. Where's the pilot? He's unconscious, and so is the copilot. Not good. Does anyone onboard have flight experience? As a matter of fact, there is. - Who's that? - Barry Benson. From the honey trial?! Oh, great. Vanessa, this is nothing more than a big metal bee. It's got giant wings, huge engines. I can't fly a plane. - Why not? Isn't John Travolta a pilot? - Yes. How hard could it be? Wait, Barry! We're headed into some lightning. This is Bob Bumble. We have some late-breaking news from JFK Airport, where a suspenseful scene is developing. Barry Benson, fresh from his legal victory… That's Barry! …is attempting to land a plane, loaded with people, flowers and an incapacitated flight crew. Flowers?! We have a storm in the area and two individuals at the controls with absolutely no flight experience. Just a minute. There's a bee on that plane. I'm quite familiar with Mr. Benson and his no-account compadres. They've done enough damage. But isn't he your only hope? Technically, a bee shouldn't be able to fly at all. Their wings are too small… Haven't we heard this a million times? “The surface area of the wings and body mass make no sense.” - Get this on the air! - Got it. - Stand by. - We're going live. The way we work may be a mystery to you. Making honey takes a lot of bees doing a lot of small jobs. But let me tell you about a small job. If you do it well, it makes a big difference. More than we realized. To us, to everyone. That's why I want to get bees back to working together. That's the bee way! We're not made of Jell-O. We get behind a fellow. - Black and yellow! - Hello! Left, right, down, hover. - Hover? - Forget hover. This isn't so hard. Beep-beep! Beep-beep! Barry, what happened?! Wait, I think we were on autopilot the whole time. - That may have been helping me. - And now we're not! So it turns out I cannot fly a plane. All of you, let's get behind this fellow! Move it out! Move out! Our only chance is if I do what I'd do, you copy me with the wings of the plane! Don't have to yell. I'm not yelling! We're in a lot of trouble. It's very hard to concentrate with that panicky tone in your voice! It's not a tone. I'm panicking! I can't do this! Vanessa, pull yourself together. You have to snap out of it! You snap out of it. You snap out of it. - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - You snap out of it! - Hold it! - Why? Oome on, it's my turn. How is the plane flying? I don't know. Hello? Benson, got any flowers for a happy occasion in there? The Pollen Jocks! They do get behind a fellow. - Black and yellow. - Hello. All right, let's drop this tin can on the blacktop. Where? I can't see anything. Oan you? No, nothing. It's all cloudy. Oome on. You got to think bee, Barry. - Thinking bee. - Thinking bee. Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Wait a minute. I think I'm feeling something. - What? - I don't know. It's strong, pulling me. Like a 27-million-year-old instinct. Bring the nose down. Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! - What in the world is on the tarmac? - Get some lights on that! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! Thinking bee! - Vanessa, aim for the flower. - OK. Out the engines. We're going in on bee power. Ready, boys? Affirmative! Good. Good. Easy, now. That's it. Land on that flower! Ready? Full reverse! Spin it around! - Not that flower! The other one! - Which one? - That flower. - I'm aiming at the flower! That's a fat guy in a flowered shirt. I mean the giant pulsating flower made of millions of bees! Pull forward. Nose down. Tail up. Rotate around it. - This is insane, Barry! - This's the only way I know how to fly. Am I koo-koo-kachoo, or is this plane flying in an insect-like pattern? Get your nose in there. Don't be afraid. Smell it. Full reverse! Just drop it. Be a part of it. Aim for the center! Now drop it in! Drop it in, woman! Oome on, already. Barry, we did it! You taught me how to fly! - Yes. No high-five! - Right. Barry, it worked! Did you see the giant flower? What giant flower? Where? Of course I saw the flower! That was genius! - Thank you. - But we're not done yet. Listen, everyone! This runway is covered with the last pollen from the last flowers available anywhere on Earth. That means this is our last chance. We're the only ones who make honey, pollinate flowers and dress like this. If we're gonna survive as a species, this is our moment! What do you say? Are we going to be bees, orjust Museum of Natural History keychains? We're bees! Keychain! Then follow me! Except Keychain. Hold on, Barry. Here. You've earned this. Yeah! I'm a Pollen Jock! And it's a perfect fit. All I gotta do are the sleeves. Oh, yeah. That's our Barry. Mom! The bees are back! If anybody needs to make a call, now's the time. I got a feeling we'll be working late tonight! Here's your change. Have a great afternoon! Oan I help who's next? Would you like some honey with that? It is bee-approved. Don't forget these. Milk, cream, cheese, it's all me. And I don't see a nickel! Sometimes I just feel like a piece of meat! I had no idea. Barry, I'm sorry. Have you got a moment? Would you excuse me? My mosquito associate will help you. Sorry I'm late. He's a lawyer too? I was already a blood-sucking parasite. All I needed was a briefcase. Have a great afternoon! Barry, I just got this huge tulip order, and I can't get them anywhere. No problem, Vannie. Just leave it to me. You're a lifesaver, Barry. Oan I help who's next? All right, scramble, jocks! It's time to fly. Thank you, Barry! That bee is living my life! Let it go, Kenny. - When will this nightmare end?! - Let it all go. - Beautiful day to fly. - Sure is. Between you and me, I was dying to get out of that office. You have got to start thinking bee, my friend. - Thinking bee! - Me? Hold it. Let's just stop for a second. Hold it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, everyone. Can we stop here? I'm not making a major life decision during a production number! All right. Take ten, everybody. Wrap it up, guys. I had virtually no rehearsal for that.

This episode was originally released on 6/1/2022. While new episodes of Breaking Walls are on hiatus I'll be going back and posting the older episodes. ____________ In Breaking Walls episode 128 we wrap up our six month look at 1954 by ending in June with network cancellations. —————————— Highlights: • The State of Radio and The Union • The End of Escape with John Dehner • News with Frank Edwards on Mutual • Let's Pretend with Arnold Stang • Autolite Drops Suspense • Goodbye To Jack Benny (For Now) • What's At Stake in the Fall 1954 Midterm Elections • CBS Cancels The Lux Radio Theatre • The End of James Stewart's The Six Shooter • Looking Ahead to July and Roswell —————————— The WallBreakers: thewallbreakers.com Subscribe to Breaking Walls everywhere you get your podcasts. To support the show: patreon.com/TheWallBreakers —————————— The reading material used in today's episode was: • On the Air — By John Dunning • Network Radio Ratings — by Jim Ramsburg • The Complete Escape and Suspense Logs — By Keith Scott As well as articles from: • Broadcasting Magazine • LIFE Magazine • Newsweek • Radio Guide —————————— On the interview front: • Parley Baer, Ken Carpenter, Elliott Lewis, and Paula Winslowe spoke to Chuck Schaden. Hear their full chats at SpeakingOfRadio.com. • Herb Ellis, Virginia Gregg, Jack Johnstone, Elliott Lewis, and Herb Vigran spoke to SPERDVAC. For more info, go to SPERDVAC.com. • John Gibson, Elliott Lewis, Vincent Price, and Arnold Stang spoke to Dick Bertel and Ed Corcoran for WTIC's The Golden Age of Radio. Hear these full interviews at Goldenage-WTIC.org. • John Dehner and Vic Perrin spoke with Neil Ross at KMPC. • Dennis Day spoke with John Dunning for 71KNUS. • Morton Fine was with Dan Haefele. • Orson Welles with Johnny Carson. • Jimmy Stewart with Larry King. • Jack Benny spoke with CBS. —————————— Selected music featured in today's episode was: • Living Without You and Too Much Between Us — By George Winston • The Last Rose of Summer — By Tom Waits • Seance on a Wet Afternoon — By John Barry

Sometimes the hardest setback becomes the start of a far better life. I speak with Jeff Brown, an international photography business mentor whose path began with dyslexia, school struggles, and a fishing fly business at age 16. Jeff shares how military photography, personal branding, and business skills helped him build a successful creative career. He also opens up about losing everything through a failed pub, rebuilding his mental health, and creating a global photography mentoring business. His story shows how persistence, clear goals, strong branding, and the courage to change direction can create an unstoppable life. Highlights: 00:01:38 - How dyslexia and school struggles shaped Jeff's drive to work for himself. 00:05:58 - The first sale that showed him entrepreneurship was possible. 00:14:50 - Why passion and effort mattered more than early photography skills. 00:35:49 - How branding and marketing helped grow four photography businesses. 00:39:06 - The business failure that forced Jeff to rebuild his life. 01:01:49 - Why clear goals, strong branding, and steady action create growth. About the Guest: Jeff Brown is an International Photography Business Mentor, Best Selling Photography Business Author, Public Speaker and President of The British Institute of Professional Photography. Also working for The International School Photography Conference Team he has delivered sell-out courses and workshops around the world. Jeff works closely with photographers from all niches and photographic backgrounds having a real passion to help them grow their online brand and achieve their goals.          Jeff first dipped his toe into entrepreneurship at the age of 15 while still at school, selling handmade fishing flies to local tackle shops to boost his pocket money. After leaving school at 16 he set up his first full-time venture, a mail-order fishing tackle business. His fishing tackle business came to an end 7 years later, shortly after Jeff enlisted in the Royal Navy where he went on to serve as a military photographer and intelligence analysist.            Following nearly 10 years service he left the armed forces to set up his own photography company, and eighteen months later had a successful six-figure wedding photography company and a commercial photography business, then going on to open a separate school photography business and a Boudoir Makeover studio turning over 1,000 boudoir and model shoots per year.            In 2014 Jeff decided to follow his dreams of owning a country food pub by investing over £120k of his own money into a pub venture, which turned out to be his greatest ever failure, losing his entire investment and racking up £60k of debt in just 12 months while at the same time going through a divorce.           After suffering from depression in 2015, he changed direction again and developed an online photography business mentoring program, making it his mission to help and inspire photographers worldwide to market their businesses better.                                                Part of Jeff's major focus and teachings are in the areas of Goal Setting, Brand Message, Consistency, and Website Content including the new AI and AEO search on Google, and also his favourite social media platform which is LinkedIn. It's essential to have a mindset for success and a clear path to follow. No business can truly succeed without goals, direction, a powerful brand and a positive mindset to achieve.        Jeff has written 4 internationally best-selling photography books and recently published his first travel book – ·      The Photographers Missing Link-edIn ·      The Ambitious Photographer's Journal          ·      Help My Photography Website Needs More Customers        ·      The Photographer's Gratitude & Mindset Journal       ·      Plan Your Ultimate Northumberland 250 Road Trip   He writes for several photography magazines and associations and is also a brand ambassador for OM System (Olympus Cameras), The British Photography Awards, Studio Ninja, The Societies of Photographers, and the UK and US Brand Ambassador for The Shutter Studio App.         Jeff lives in the beautiful scenic county of Northumberland, England. He's a keen traveller having visited over 60 countries so far, as well as being an outdoor enthusiast, motorbiker and loves getting out in nature when ever he can. Ways to connect with Jeff**:** Website: www.thephotographersmentor.comFacebook: www.facebook.com/JeffBrownThePhotographersMentorLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/thephotographersmentorAmazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Jeff%20Brown/author/B09M76J1XK About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi again, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. You know what's really fun about this podcast is we get to meet all sorts of people who talk about all sorts of different kinds of things, and today we get to talk to a gentleman from England, Jeff Brown, and Jeff, among other things, is an international photography business mentor, best-selling photography business author, he's a public speaker and also the president of the British Public Institute of Photography. I think I said that right. Jeff Brown  01:36 British British Institute of Professional Photography. British Michael Hingson  01:40 Institute of Professional Photography. Got to say it right, but anyway, and and all sorts of other things. He's an adventurous kind of person, as you're going to learn in the course of the day. So, Jeff, I want to welcome you to Unstoppable Mindset, and we're really glad you're here. Jeff Brown  01:55 Thank you. Thanks for having me on. Michael Hingson  01:57 Well, I'm glad to do it, and I have a visitor in the studio today, my cat Stitch, who is monitoring this, and I'm sure that if she has any opinions, she's going to voice them. But we'll see. Stitch is a wonderful kitty. She's almost 16 years old, and we we love having her around. But anyway, so Jeff, why don't we start by you telling us kind of maybe about the early Jeff growing up and some of those things, and we'll go from there. Jeff Brown  02:25 So growing up, so I grew up in the northeast of England, and I was born in 1970. So I'm 55 now, and back in sort of late 70s, early 80s, the northeast of England was a was a bit of a grim place. It was gray. It was there was a lot of poverty. It was mainly coal mining and shipbuilding, and it was the old sort of mentality of you know you go to school, you study hard, you get a job, you stay in the job for for your life, you retire, and then you're dead. That's it. Yeah. So, for some reason, that didn't really, really appeal to me. And I used to love reading. I read loads of books. I was obsessed with books. Got into books from a very early age. Into sort of fantasy type books, Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, and stuff like that. But it was only when I got into maybe probably about the the junior schools I'd gone through the infant school I got to about eight or nine year old that I realized there was something the matter with me in the fact that I'm really struggled with with school I wasn't very good at it years and years later, I found out I was dyslexic, but I couldn't read out aloud. I had real problems with numbers. Numbers seemed to always look the wrong way around to me, and I got an instant dislike of school and an instant dislike of authority. I had I just I couldn't wait to get out of it, but I was quite creative when I got into fishing, I was good at making fishing flies. I got into photography, and that sort of gave me more of a creative mindset. Where I thought, well, I don't want to work for anybody else. I don't want to be told what to do. I want to try and make my own direction. And I decided that I was going to be self-employed or you know start my own business at the age of 14, Michael Hingson  04:23 what did your parents think of your your kind of independent mindset or entrepreneurial mindset? Because you must have voiced it along the way. Jeff Brown  04:31 Well, I did, yeah, and funny enough, you know, I said I had a real dislike of school. I mean, I actually not not overly proud of it, but I was expelled from school at the age of 16, kicked out of school because I got into quite a bit of trouble. I was I was very rebellious. I really disliked it with the passion, and I left school with zero qualifications. So I didn't I didn't pass any exams. I filled every exam that I actually bothered to turn up for, but to. It matters worse. My dad was a college lecturer, and my mum was a teacher. So, so obviously it didn't go down well with with having two parents who were in the education system. But they backed me 100% They were they they could see that I was struggling, but dyslexia wasn't really a thing that was talked about back. Yeah, and yeah, my my dad put forward at the time one and a half 1000 pound to help me get onto the you know get the equipment I needed and the the office space to start my first business. Michael Hingson  05:34 So it was pretty supportive, Jeff Brown  05:36 very supportive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and and I think it helped as well that my first business was making fishing flies and tying and exporting fishing flies to fishing businesses around the world. But my dad was keen on fishing as well, so he had he had an attraction to the business. Michael Hingson  05:54 Okay. Well, I know that my wife had lots of relatives in England. A lot of them were from the Cornwall Mosel area, and a lot of them, of course, were very much into fishing. Jeff Brown  06:05 Oh yeah, yeah. I know Cornwall. In fact, I spent a year in Cornwall on on Navy search and rescue, and that would have been 1919 98 I think it was then very beautiful place. Michael Hingson  06:19 I've not been. I'd love to go sometime. We'll have to figure that out. Jeff Brown  06:23 Yeah, it is. It's gorgeous. It's gorgeous. Michael Hingson  06:26 So you started this business. So you were basically 15 when you started the the business, which I think is kind of interesting. That's at a young age, and of course, by the time you were 16, as you said, you got expelled from school, which had to not be very very much fun. Jeff Brown  06:44 Yeah, I mean, well, to be honest, so the the starting of the business, I used to I used to go into the fishing tackle shops at weekend myself and one of my friends who who I used to go fishing with, and he was good at making flies. He was called Phil. Obviously, I'm called Jeff, and we decided we were going to create a business called PJ Flies. And one weekend, we we went into one of the local fish and tackle shops, and we were buying some some bits and bobs to make fish and flies with. And the business owner, the owner of the shop, said, "Look, says, look, if you bring me some flies down next week, if they if they if they're any good, I'll buy them off you. So we walked into the shop and took these fishing flies in the following week in a little presentation box. And I remember him individually taking each fly out at a time because he said, "How much how much how much are you going to sell me them for? And I said, "Well, I'll sell them for 10 pence each. So he was taking them out, and I was counting up in my head. And at the time, my pocket money was, I think, was three or four pounds a week, and I came out of that shop with a 10-pound note. So it was double what I was getting paid off my pocket money, and it was such a great feeling. So that was my first ever sort of dip into entrepreneurship, earning money, and and he said, and the last thing he said as I went out the door, he says, if you can if you can make the same amount next week or even double, bring them back and I'll buy them off you. So the following week I went back and made 20 quid. Michael Hingson  08:18 Wow, what goes into making a fly, I'm not a fisherman by by training or anything, so I don't know a lot about fly fishing. Jeff Brown  08:27 Yeah, so it's all feathers and so feathers and furrows, and it's all held onto the hook with with a very fine thread, like what's called a gossamer thread. It takes it takes a while to learn. So I was taught by an old guy who was a really good fisherman, and he he had a caravan on the same caravan site that my parents had that they used to go on holiday on, and because we we we never used to go abroad in those days, all the holidays were spent in England, and that he he saw that I was getting into fishing, and he came and taught me how to how to tie fishing flies, which was great. Michael Hingson  09:06 Yeah, and of course, the whole idea behind the fly is to attract the fish, right? Jeff Brown  09:10 That's right. Yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  09:13 So that they will, if you will, take the bait. Jeff Brown  09:16 Yeah, yeah, totally. And the funny thing was, I was yeah, I used to love fishing, but I don't need fish, so I would either put you know put them back in the in in the river, or I'd I'd give them away to to members of the family. Michael Hingson  09:30 Wow. Well, and suddenly fortunes changed, and there you were making flies and selling them. Jeff Brown  09:37 That's right. That's right. Michael Hingson  09:39 So how long did you do that? Jeff Brown  09:42 So we we got we got a proper sort of business premises in 1986. So when I was I was 16 year old, and we applied for a grant with the then Prince's Trust, which was run by Prince Charles, who's now King Charles. And we were the youngest people in in the UK to be accepted for a grant. They bent the rules and they give us the grant under the age of 18. So we got the grant at 17 year old, and then shortly after, we were in a business sort of a business community, a big a big workspace with lots of offices with other creative people in, and shortly after the the center had opened, about six months after, the the the manager of the center came up and says, "Well, look, we'd like to we'd like you to make a box of salmon flies, but a really good box of salmon flies, all the best ones, and we'll pay you. And it's going to be a presentation box for a special guest who's coming to officially open the business center in a few months. But we can't tell you who it is. And anyway, it turned out two months later it was it was Prince Charles. Speaker 1  10:59 He Jeff Brown  10:59 came to visit us, and he was presented with a box of fishing flies-the the flies that we tied from. Michael Hingson  11:07 Wow, that was pretty cool. So you got to meet him. Jeff Brown  11:11 So yeah, we got to meet him. He talked about fishing. He talked about fly tying. He said he'd he'd been bought a fly tying kit for Christmas one year from his wife, who would have been Princess Diana, but he couldn't get away from get away from it. It was too. He found it too complicated and too complex. So he says, "I really admire that you you know that you guys can can tie the flies. So so yeah. So it was nice. It was nice to meet him. It was nice to be able to do that presentation box, and we had that business till I was 26 so Michael Hingson  11:45 10 years, Jeff Brown  11:46 nearly 10 years. Yeah. Michael Hingson  11:48 Now, have you met him ever since Jeff Brown  11:52 then? I haven't met him, but I have met other members of the the royal family because I was a my next stage in business, so my next stage in life was to become a a military photographer. I met a few members of the royal family in my capacity as a military photographer. So I went from so one avenue being creative, which was the fishing flies, into sort of another avenue being creative. And the funny thing was, I'd never had any intention of John in the military. None of my family were in the military. My dad had done his national service, and my granddad had served in the in the navy during the Second World War. But just on a whim, one day I happened to be walking past a military careers office, and I thought I'd pop in. I love cooking. I thought, oh look, I'd seen a picture on the window where he could train to be a military chef. Yeah, okay. So I went into enquire about being a chef, joined as an aircraft engineer, and then transferred across to become a military photographer. And funny enough, like I said early on, that I hate authority and I hate being told what to do because that came from a hatred of hatred of schools. Michael Hingson  13:10 A school, right? Jeff Brown  13:11 But I believe that the military was different because people say, "Well, you know, if you if you hate authority and hate being told what to do, why the hell did you go and join the military? But the military was very different in the fact that I put up with the I put up with the authority because the military give you adventure. It wasn't a nine foot nine to five. It wasn't a routine job, you know. So it give and I love excitement. I love adventure. I love the the idea of every day being different. So so I was happy enough to put up with military life, and I did that for nearly nine years. Michael Hingson  13:49 Well, so did you find that the military respected your creativity as you grew at being a photographer, and so you were a photographer, so that you were allowed to, to to be creative and do the things that you wanted to do, or did you find that there was just as much authoritarianism, if you will, and they kept telling you what to Jeff Brown  14:15 do? No, no, they were very good at being creative. Funny, the the military photography branch-it's only a small branch. It's about 80 people in the in the in the navy photography branch. So by comparison to all the other branches of the navy, it's tiny, and it's always also a very sought after branch. So basically, have to wait till somebody retires or somebody, you know, gives up their position that you can actually request, and I just managed to get in at the right time where somebody had left, and I applied, and I got accepted and went on to their training course, and their training course is is quite intense, 26 exams in six months, but. All the people who run it are really passionate photographers, so they're all about developing your own creativity. Yes, there's rules and regulations to follow, but it was very different than other other avenues of the armed forces. And then, you know, your average working day, you were you were given a lot of freedom. You were given a brief for a job, but then quite often you would just go off and design that job the way you wanted, you know. Michael Hingson  15:24 But why did you, since you, I guess you, as you said, joined as an aircraft engineer? Why did you decide to look at photography? What what attracted you to that? Jeff Brown  15:35 Because I didn't. Well, first of all, I didn't realize you could be a military photographer. So it was, and you can't join as a military photographer anyway. It's what's called a sidewards entry branch. You have have to have served three years in a in a another part of the armed forces before you can apply. And to apply to get into the military military photography branch, you have to pretty much do it on your own merit. So you've got to build a portfolio up. You've got to do all the application yourself, and they also look at your. It's not like the way you react to discipline, the way you think on your own two feet, sort of thing. So, funny enough, when I went through the interviews and and they looked at my portfolio, they said that my my work was pretty poor, but they loved the way I thought, and they loved the way I was driven, and would get up early and go out and do stuff. This is, you know, it's the it's the passion and the the willingness to learn. We can teach you all the other stuff, but you you know you you're showing that willingness and and going that extra mile. That's that's what got us in and and got us to be accepted into the into the branch. It wasn't my skills as a photographer because I was that was pretty useless. Pretty new, Michael Hingson  16:49 yeah, Jeff Brown  16:50 yeah. But you know they they developed that. Michael Hingson  16:55 So the the whole idea of going in and learning to cook and being a chef kind of went by the wayside, huh? Jeff Brown  17:00 It did, yes. But I still, I still, I still love cooking to this day, and I was still very passionate about it. And I always had a dream of, you know, one day owning a a pub or running a food pub, Michael Hingson  17:12 right? Well, and you know things happen, but you you clearly are an adventurous sort of person that you even chose to do all of this, and that-that's in of itself, I think, admirable to you know to do that. So you you became a photographer, and so what kind of things did you do during the time you were in the military from a photographic standpoint? Jeff Brown  17:40 So we would do everything. We do everything from portraits of sort of admirals in uniform, official portraits. We do big presentations and awards. We do a lot of PR photography. So we'd be we'd be tasked with with a concept or an idea, or being told something is happening, or we want to promote this, so they might say, right? We've got an aircraft carrier coming into your area. Can you come up with some ideas to to sort of really promote it? Something that look really exciting. It'll encourage people to to join the military because one of the one of the things military photography branch, it's it's about PR. It's trying to get pictures of the military into the into the newspapers in a positive light. So you know, young young men and women go, "Oh, that looks great! I'd love to join, and it serves them an absolute fortune in in in advertising. So so that was that was a lot of the stuff we did, we create concepts and ideas, and quite often the concept and ideas led to having a lot of fun. You know, I'd say like, well, what have I got at my disposal? And then an admiral might say, well, what do you need? I said, well, I need a few helicopters. I need some fast patrol boats. I need some marines on on on ribs lent over these these you know rigid inflatable boats all camouflaged up with their cam cream on and their rifles and they'll be in front of the in front of the the aircraft carrier then we'll have the the helicopters flying in the background and all this was was so basically controlled by us, so we would have headsets on. We'd be talking to the, talking to the the pilots. We'd be directing people, and those shoots probably cost 10s and 10s of 1000s of pounds to to put together. When you think about it, but it was great to see some of the images come out. And in those days, when I first started doing it, we were shooting a lot of the stuff on film, so we didn't have the the the the benefit of seeing the images instantly, as in you know with digital photography. Michael Hingson  19:51 I was going to say much less digitally editing it. It was all on film. Jeff Brown  19:54 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  19:56 When did it migrate over to be more digital? Jeff Brown  20:00 So we were still we when I was in training we we were using digital but still preferred you to to do a bit more on the film side of things Michael Hingson  20:08 higher quality Jeff Brown  20:10 yeah and and they also I think for like an archival purposes for the idea of have negatives and hard print Speaker 2  20:18 yeah Jeff Brown  20:19 but then you know towards like the 2004 two you know 2003 2004 Then they were starting to embrace digital fully, and and you know do away with all the the film. Michael Hingson  20:33 Wow! Jeff Brown  20:34 And obviously there is the cost aspect as well. You know because you with film it costs every time you you press the shutter button, you know you can you can take a lot more images. But I suppose it does it does make you a bit more of a lazy photographer. Michael Hingson  20:49 Well, I I suppose in some senses it can. It just depends on how disciplined you are. Well, you seem to be a pretty disciplined kind of person, and so you you worked at that pretty well, and I can. I can appreciate that. So so when did you start doing photography for the military? When did you enroll in the military? Jeff Brown  21:11 So that was 1997 Michael Hingson  21:14 Okay, so you were what 2526 25 Jeff Brown  21:19 Yeah, 2026 Yeah, yeah, 2627 yeah. Michael Hingson  21:23 Well, and the the thing about photography or or any skill like that that is is pretty unique and pretty new for you is that you had to really develop the knack to doing it, but you obviously also had to have a lot of understanding about things like, as you said, PR and all that. I mean, some of that just had to be a little bit more natural, or just you observed so much that you realized the value of it. And as you pointed out, having the the whole photography branch in the military had to be incredibly much less expensive for the military, no matter what you wanted them to do, than them doing PR in other ways because it was all done internally. Yes, yes, you had to have helicopters and military people and all that other stuff, but they didn't have to pay the company to go out and, or didn't have to pay it much to go out and do the photography because you're the company. Jeff Brown  22:29 That's right. That's right. And also, some some of the jobs were required a certain level of vetting that they couldn't bring a company in unless those people were vetted. To you know, like on, I did quite a few photography shoots on nuclear submarines, which you you can't enter a nuclear submarine base unless you're you're vetted to a certain level. Michael Hingson  22:51 Right. Now that brings up a point. So let's let's go back to that. So going into a nuclear submarine base and so on, and and doing photography. What what was the purpose of pictures for that? Since it had to be pretty cleared and must have been somewhat classified. Jeff Brown  23:11 Well, sometimes some of the the shoots on board the submarine would be like award ceremonies. So okay, yeah, you know, people getting medals or achievements, and actually getting a photograph from receiving their award from the captain of the submarine. But then sometimes we would have PR photographs of of the the submarine sailing, and we'd be on speedboats going down the lock, photographing the submarine. Michael Hingson  23:41 But what you were not doing was taking pictures of things that were so classified that they didn't dare show them to the public or whatever. Jeff Brown  23:49 Yes, yes, Michael Hingson  23:50 yeah. Which which makes sense. Speaker 1  23:57 If you enjoy unstoppable mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson  24:30 So you you did that, and so you clearly found a niche to to do and to to work at, and obviously loved it. Jeff Brown  24:43 I do. I mean, it took it took a while to get the confidence. I'm quite an introverted person, so where I love taking photographs, and you know, it's easy to take photographs of things and objects and landscapes and that sort of stuff. It's. It's quite hard when you don't have a lot of confidence and you are quite introverted to start directing people and telling people what to do, especially when you had to direct, you know, entire ships, companies, or groups of 4050, people to do a a group shot at the awards ceremony. So that that was something that took a bit of getting used to and put me out of my comfort zone to to become a bit more sociable and a bit less introverted, and also direct people from behind the camera. Michael Hingson  25:31 So you you became a director, Jeff Brown  25:35 I suppose. Yeah, you do. In some senses, Michael Hingson  25:38 anyway. Jeff Brown  25:38 Yeah, yeah, and from from another point of view, I sudden realized that you know you might not like directing people, or you might be really nervous about speaking to people you've never met before and telling them what to do. But quite often, the people on the other side of the camera are just as nervous as you because they don't like having their photograph taken. They feel awkward, so you know part of your job as a photographer is to put people at ease and make people feel comfortable. Michael Hingson  26:03 Yeah, and I think about it as a public speaker. I keep hearing all the time that one of the top fears that people have is speaking and standing on a stage and speaking. And I and I finally realize that that's because we're conditioning people to think that it's scary, but the fact of the matter is that, and I still believe this to this day, audiences want speakers to succeed. Unless you're just a real jerk, audiences want you to succeed, and I would think that that some of that same level of confidence goes into what you do as a photographer. You are-they want you to succeed, and the people who are nervous about you taking their pictures and so on. Your job, as you point out, is to kind of help make them feel more comfortable about Jeff Brown  26:55 it. Yeah, and and you, you know, on from your point of view, you know, you you want somebody to love the picture? Michael Hingson  27:02 Yeah, Jeff Brown  27:02 you want someone to go, oh wow, you know, like actually take away their their dislike and awkwardness of having a photograph taken, and you know it's it's quite rewarding when you see somebody go, oh wow, I didn't know I could look that good, you know, because you've you've directed them, you've posed them, you've helped them feel more relaxed, and they see themselves in a different because it's it's quite it quite often it's not that somebody always looks awkward or you know they don't take a good picture as people say oh don't take my picture I don't take a good picture you know it's the fact that they've never been directed they've never they've always felt felt uncomfortable and awkward so it comes through in the the final image because they don't look relaxed. They don't look natural. They've got this fake smile. They look uncomfortable. Michael Hingson  27:49 I know. For me, I've I've never worried about that. Of course, being blind my whole life, I never really cared a whole lot about pictures. Yeah. So I love to pick on pictures all the time. So you know, for example, people say that a picture is worth 1000 words, and I just point out, yeah, but it takes a whole lot more memory. So, but but but I I appreciate pictures, and I've learned a lot more about photography and appreciating photography ever since September 11th. And part of that was my guide dog Roselle at the time, who became a real camera ham hound. She loved to be in front of the camera, and there was one time we were on a Larry King show on CNN, and you know his shots are and the photographers and and the and everything on the show is basically front like from the chest up, and and so on, and they take pictures. So one day we were going to be on the show, and they made a a little platform that Roselle, my guide dog, could lie on, and they said, "Okay, put her up on there, and I did, and she laid down, put her head between her paws, and that was it. And the director came like about a minute before the show started, and he said, "Isn't there anything you can do to get her to react more and to be a little bit more involved in the show? And I said, "Are the Klieg lights on yet? And he said, "No. I said, "Just wait till you turn the lights on. Everything will change. The lights came on. She lifted up her head, started blinking her eyes and flashing her eyelashes, smiling and licking her chops, and just having a good old time. She loved the camera. It was so funny. Jeff Brown  29:39 Yeah, I can't get. I can't get my dog to sit. He won't sit in front. He won't sit in front of the camera. He's a working Springer Spaniel. He will not stay still for two minutes. And there's something about it. Every time you look, you pick up the camera. I think he knows that you want to take a picture, and he turns his head away. He looks the opposite direction. Michael Hingson  29:57 Yeah. See, Roselle was exactly the opposite. Knew you wanted to take her picture, and she was going, "Bring it on! She just absolutely loved it. It was so funny, and and and it was it was a blessing. But it it as as we talked about it, as I talked to photographers and other people when we dealt with different interviews and so on, I grew to appreciate the value of pictures and what it was that they were trying to get, and it didn't take any work really to get Roselle to be involved in that. It didn't take a lot of work to get me involved with it, but I gained a greater understanding of it. So I certainly value the fact that there's there's a lot of reasons for taking photographs, although I also like audio input and other things like that that I'm going to see. But still, it's it's great that we have this technology, and nowadays, of course, because it is so digital, it makes it so much easier. Jeff Brown  30:59 It does. I think I think obviously there's you know everybody's using photographer now. Everyone walks around with a camera in their pocket, which is you know effectively a smartphone, and the quality of the images that you can take on a phone are fantastic. You know the you know the the resolution, the color saturation, the the look absolutely amazing. But sometimes I think people forget to stop and appreciate the moment. So everybody is more, you know, getting the picture taken, sticking it onto Instagram, onto Facebook, and also we have all these digital memories. But not many people are printing pictures out and putting them on the walls like we used to in the 80s and 90s. You know, family portraits, and I think that is a big thing that photographers need to be to be sort of reinventing and encouraging people to to enjoy the wall art, personalize the home, have a picture on the wall that brings a smile to your face every time you see it. Because if you take it on your phone, you you enjoy it for a second, and then it becomes a memory, and it goes in. I looked the other day. I've got 14 and a half 1000 pictures on my phone. Yeah. So, and I only ever see them, you know, seconds after I take them and I post them on Facebook, and then maybe a year later when a Facebook memory comes up and reminds me, oh, this is what you were doing this time last year. Michael Hingson  32:20 Yeah. Well. Well, and I understand that, and I, I, I also understand what you're saying about lazy photography because, as you said, you take the picture, you look at it, and it's gone, and you don't necessarily do all you can to make sure that the picture is looking as good as it as it can look, and sometimes we just rely on the automatic zoom and other things like that to make the picture look good. But the bottom line is that ultimately we're in control of it and really should make the picture as good as we can make it. Jeff Brown  32:54 Yeah, I mean that was that was what we were taught in the military right at the very beginning. And as I say, you know, was starting out on on on film cameras. It was get it right in the camera. You know, get it right in the camera. It'll look a lot better, and it'll save you hours of time in the dark room. And then there's a tendency now for photographers to think, "Oh, that'll do. I'll just sort it out in Photoshop afterwards, and which again takes time. And as a photographer, time is money. So yeah, yeah. The better you can get the composition and the and the way a photograph looks in the camera, then the less work you're going to have to do afterwards. Michael Hingson  33:35 Yeah, which makes perfect sense. And so I appreciate that. Well, so you were in the military for 10 years, and what made you retire from the military? And also, what kind of skills did you learn that you then took away from the military? One of them had to be accepting authority a little bit more, but I'm being sarcastic. But still, what what kind of skills and so on did you learn, and and did you take away, and and why did you even leave the military after 10 years? Jeff Brown  34:07 So, so being a military photographer, I was a military photographer, and there was a new a new sort of breed of like a new discipline that was coming into into the into our area into the the photography branch, and it was called IA, which is an intelligence analyst, and they believed that photographers, probably rightly, had a real attention to detail and a keen a keen eye for spotting things, and they were so they recruited intelligence analysts from the photography branch to analyze intelligence imagery, satellite imagery, reconnaissance, and then collate this information with other intelligence services. Like Lacher on I six and JCHQ, so so people on the ground, you know, and and military listening outposts, and so I got sent to work. So I did my intelligence course, and I got sent to work for with the intelligence services for about two and a half years now. While I was while I was doing my job as a military analyst, intelligence analyst, I started getting people coming into my office and saying, "You're a military photographer, aren't you? Yeah. Would you photograph my dog? Can you can you photograph my daughter at her birthday? Do you do weddings? Can you do my my my partner's wedding and stuff like that? So started doing a little bit of stuff on weekends, and then soon realized that there was actually quite a good bit of money being a photographer. So that was it. So that that set me on the path of right. I'm going to get out the military. I'm going to start with my own business. I'm going to go back to being self-employed again, but this time using my skills as a photographer. And yeah, I had good photography skills. I had other skills that the military had sort of drummed into me, which was you know timekeeping, organization, attention to detail, and that would work brilliant with a wedding because with a wedding you've got to organize people, everything's got to be on time. You've you've got to have that attention to detail, so started doing weddings on weekends, and then I left, and now decided to go into partnership with another military photographer who was working at the same the same base as me, and was also from the same the same area, the same the same city. So I left first because he was married with two kids. Alif first to set the business up and get the business bringing in money, and then about six months later, the business was bringing in enough money for him to put his notice in and and come out and and join me full time in the photography business. So and then it just skyrocketed from there. We ended up having four different photography businesses, Michael Hingson  37:03 pretty impressive, huh? Jeff Brown  37:05 It was good, but I think you know a lot of the lot the stuff that we did is when we left the military is you get a resettlement grant to resettle you back into civilian life to to to get you ready to work for other people, but obviously we were going to go self employed, so we we spent this resettlement grant of 7000 pound on marketing and branding training. So I got 7000 Kev got 7000 So we spent spent a lot of our money on understanding how to run a business, understanding what brand was all about and brand concept and and marketing. And it wasn't necessarily our photography skills that helped us succeed. It was the skills of actually understanding how to run a business and how to market our brand, Michael Hingson  37:49 which also goes a little bit back to understanding PR and just as you said, understanding all about business, which is which is pretty cool. Speaker 3  37:57 Yeah. Michael Hingson  37:59 Well, as you as you did that, how easy was it for you to integrate back into society and become disciplined enough to run your own business? Because when you were in the military, you had other people who were making a lot of those decisions, but you had to learn something along the way or figure out something along the way that allowed you to truly run your own business. Jeff Brown  38:22 To be honest, I felt I felt quite excited to be going back to it because, obviously, you know, from sort of 1415, year old, I'd had I'd had my own business, and that that was my first my first ever job. You know, working for myself with fish and fish and tackle business, and I sort of realized early on that yes, I don't have a boss, but ultimately the business is the boss because the business demands from you all the time. It demands how much work you need to put in, and if you don't put the work in, then you don't get the money. But the other good thing about running your own business is you're not on a fixed wage. You know, you have that ability to make a lot more money, without having to be promoted or or impress somebody else, you know. So for some people, it doesn't work. Like my girlfriend always says, she doesn't think she could do what I do because she doesn't like that uncertainty. Of you know, because every business is ups and downs, ups and downs. You have low moments. You have high moments, but that's life in general, isn't it? And I think you've just got to have more high moments than low moments. But yeah, I love it. I don't think I could ever work for anybody else. But a lot of, I think I'm unemployable. I don't think I can. I don't think I could go into a normal job. But a lot of those high Michael Hingson  39:40 moments are also moments that essentially you create. It's your mindset. That's Jeff Brown  39:45 right. Yeah, Michael Hingson  39:46 because you know, like failure. Everybody talks about failure. Well, you know, you're going to experience failure in your life, and I have gotten to the point where I tend to react and say there really is no such thing as failure. Because failure seems to be an absolute-you screwed up, and that's all there is to it. And the reality is, it's not. Failure isn't really the issue. The issue is okay. You made a plan. Something didn't work right. The question really is now: Where do you go from here? How do you fix it? What have you learned from what happened? And I think that's really the issue. Jeff Brown  40:20 That's totally that's totally right, and you know, but I made a a decision back in 2014 So you said, you know, I love cooking, and had the photography businesses, which which were both doing very well. They were both they were all super successful, you know, bringing in the money, and I decided, wouldn't it be nice to buy a really, really beautiful traditional country pub, one with log fires, you know, in the middle of the countryside, maybe a two, 300 year old building, and and run my own pub? So that was that was my idea. So so I found this this beautiful little country pub in Durham, in the northeast of England, and it was like a picture postcard country pub that looked beautiful. It actually had two log fires. It had, I think, it was about 300 year old. It had wooden beams, everything, and so I fell in love with it. I I bought the lease on it. I plowed 120,000 pounds of my own money into it, and within 12 months, I'd lost all that money. I was a further 60,000 pound in debt, and I couldn't see any way out. Because you say, you know, like failure. Sometimes people think failure is that's it, that's the end. They can't see past it, and stupidly, I decided that that was it. I couldn't go on anymore, so I tried to drive my car off a bridge. I was, I was drunk at the time, but you know, luckily I didn't. I just damaged the car. I didn't damage myself. I woke up the next morning feeling utterly disgusted with myself because my daughter at the time would have been seven year old. and I realized I needed to get out the pub, and I needed to change a different direction, which I did. So I ran away, and I came to the countryside where I live now in Northumberland, and moved away from all my family and and my friends, about an hour away from all my family and friends to restart my life again, and I spent probably about six months listening to positivity books and audio books, and and trying to rewind my mindset, and then take a new direction. And that's when I got into the idea of because I was in the middle of the countryside, I could run an online business training photographers in marketing and branding, and you know how to how to promote themselves on the internet, and I could do that with anybody anywhere in the world who was a photographer. So that was my idea, and that's what I went for. And you know, looking back at it, 11 years on from that, it would be 11 years in March when I tried to take my own life, and I thought that was that was the biggest worst failure I'd ever have. It was the best failure I ever had because I've never been as happy. I've never been as stress free. My work takes me all over the world, speaking and meeting photographers. I have an absolutely amazing community. No day is the same because I'm on all different time zones, speaking to different people, and and I just love it. It's stress free, but you know, if I'd stayed at the pub, that wouldn't have been stress free. So, Michael Hingson  43:33 so what happened? That why did the pub fail? Fail, or or why didn't the public pub succeed? And what did you learn from that? Jeff Brown  43:40 So, well, first of all, probably I probably fell in love with the idea of the pub, but I probably didn't do enough research. Now, funny enough, it was in an old mining village, my coal mining village, that was very, very much based around if you weren't born and bred in the area, you didn't fit in, so first of all, I think fit into the village very well. But the profitability in the pub trade is is very hard, especially if the pub, if the building is owned by a brewery and you've got to buy your beer direct from the brewery, it reduces the profit margins. And I just think everything that could go wrong in that 12 month did go wrong. We had staff stealing offers. We had a couple of sabotages to the pub, a couple of really big bills that wasn't expected, equipment going wrong and equipment failing, and yeah, the costs just spiraled out of control. Michael Hingson  44:38 Just a lot of lack of research, Jeff Brown  44:41 yeah, yeah, yeah, Michael Hingson  44:42 and I would suspect that you would say that because of that, and because you realized all that, you learned. Jeff Brown  44:50 I learned, yeah, yeah, I, I totally learned, and I think you know that I, I, I fell in love with the idea of it. I fell in love with the building, and probably, probably didn't research it. And also, you know, yeah, I was great at marketing. I was great at business, but I'd never run a pub before. And yeah, it was probably a bit of a. I'd probably sort of trying to run before I could walk. In that, you know, might have been better off going and working for somebody else and being a manager or working in a bar. And you know, the the day I opened the pub, I'd never even pulled a pint before. Never stood behind a bar and served served a drink. So, Michael Hingson  45:28 yeah, and that's that's an art in of itself. Jeff Brown  45:32 Yeah, yeah, that's right. Michael Hingson  45:34 I used to when I lived in New Jersey and worked in New York. I used to go to a restaurant called Virgil's Real Barbecue, best barbecue I think in the country, and so if you're ever in New York, it's Virgil's. Anyway, they had opened a facility in Las Vegas. Also, they opened a restaurant in Las Vegas, and so last week when I was at the Consumer Electronics Show, I went there, and one of the things I had heard early on when they I heard about them opening the restaurant several years ago, was that the people who opened the restaurant before they could open it had to go spend six months in New York at the original Virgil's, learning everything about it, so that they could make this restaurant and the food be the same as as what they experienced, because they wanted Virgil's to be the same in both places, and they did. And I can say that, from my perspective, at least, they did a really great job, and they learned from that, which was exactly what you wanted for the people in Las Vegas to do, and they survived the pandemic, and it's still open. So when you're in Las Vegas next time, Jeff Brown  46:47 yeah, I'm there next week. So yeah, I'll have to Virgil's. Yeah, I'll check it out. Michael Hingson  46:52 Virgil's real barbecue, best ribs in the country. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it, everybody. Well, that's cool. So. So, do you believe that things happen for a reason? I mean, a lot has happened, and of course, the pub closed and and all that. Do you believe that things happen for a reason? Jeff Brown  47:13 I do, and and you know now I I think one of the things as well when you get to that point where you you don't believe there's there's there's any way out, and and you know you you get that alone, you get depressed, but you you feel that you've got to take your own life. You are right at the very bottom. I think for you to go to the very bottom and then come back up again, it changes your mindset about stuff. And I I never get stressed. I am a very, very chilled out person. If something goes wrong now or something fails, I just go. Well, it's happened for a reason. Maybe something better is around the corner. Maybe it's the universe trying to direct me in a in a different path. You know, and and I think the less you live, the more you live by that mindset, the more it opens you up to other opportunities. Yeah, keeps you living it. You know, you're not living in the past; you're living in the future. It it was for the first six months coming up here 11 years ago. It was hard to move away from that failure in my mind. I kept playing it over and over again, but you know, playing it over and over again wasn't going to make that failure with the pub any different. The outcome had happened, and what I needed to do was focus on the future, get back together and get my myself back together, both mentally and also establish a new business and a new way of life. And that in itself was a a massive learning curve, but for the better. Michael Hingson  48:44 Well, and and the reality is, it it certainly has made a big difference in your life. And the fact is that, again, it goes back to failure isn't the end all, and failure is is probably the wrong way to put it. It's a learning experience, and I think that it's so important to do that. I am like you. I refuse to feel stress. I've been through too many experiences in my life that that caused stress, and I've learned that there are always ways to to deal with things, and so it's important to not let the stress overwhelm you. I wrote a book that was published in 2024 called "Live Like a Guide Dog: True Stories from a Blind Man and His Dogs About Being Brave, Overcoming Adversity, and Moving Forward in Faith. And moving forward in faith is part of it, but the whole issue is we focus on our lives on so many things. We think we need to control everything, and the reality is, we only control probably much less than 10% of all the things that we experience, but we worry about 100% of everything, and that doesn't help. And so, it builds up so much fear and causes so much stress. And if we would just focus on the things over which we really can control, we would be much better off. Jeff Brown  49:59 Saying that, you know, after leaving the pub, because my mindset was very, very delicate, and I had to build my my mental health back up, I decided to stop watching the news. So I used to used to get up and go downstairs and put the news on TV and have my morning coffee and and listen to all this negativity, all this drama, every single morning, which I've done for probably 40, you know, well, at least 30-five years, and and that was it. I've never watched the news since. I don't watch any live TV. I don't watch the news. People say, "Well, how do you manage? So, well, somebody will tell me something, but most of the time, half the stuff that people get worried about never actually happens. And if it does happen, quite often there's nothing you can do about it because it's the other side of the world. Michael Hingson  50:53 Well, even if it's in England, you don't have control over it, so why worry about it? Now, I watch I watch the news, but I do it because I want to get the information. But I won't worry about it. And there's so much that happens. But I feel that that at least there is information to be gained by watching the news. But what I had to learn somewhere along the line is don't take it personally because you don't have any control over it. And there are so many things that that go on, but the the trick is not to let things you don't have any control over really affect you to the point where you get nervous and stressful again. Jeff Brown  51:34 Yeah, yeah, and I think that you know the the same thing can be put into social media. You know, people say social media is negative. Social media is dangerous, and it depends how you react to it and what you engage on. You know, in my own social media, I follow a lot of photographers, a lot of people who talk about adventures and motorcycle rides and travel and nature. So my news feed is filled with a lot of positive stuff. And if if I see something negative or see something sensationalist, what I do is I don't unfriend that person. I just unfollow them, so I don't see their content again. Michael Hingson  52:09 Yeah. Jeff Brown  52:10 But from from the plus side, you know, social media has bought me more opportunity than anything else, and and effectively for free. And I've traveled traveled a lot because of my work. I have over 100,000 followers across my my social media platforms, and social media brings me customers, brings me clients. It helps me sell books, so there is a lot of positivity to it. I suppose it. The negative is only if you engage in the negative, then you will you'll find the the negative aspect. Michael Hingson  52:40 Yeah. Well, and the reality is that again, it's it's how you approach life, and you've clearly learned a lot about how to approach life in a much more positive way. You've developed, well, we'll call it an unstoppable mindset. You've developed a mindset that allows you to go through life and do the things that you need to do, and focus on the things that you can, and you leave the rest of it alone. Jeff Brown  53:06 Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Michael Hingson  53:08 Which which makes a lot of sense. Well, for you, you you talked earlier about the fact that you have dyslexia, and you've been with dyslexia for most of your life, or maybe all of your life. It's interesting. I've talked to so many people who didn't know that they had dyslexia when they were in school and so on, and experienced a lot of the same frustrations and kinds of experiences that that you've experienced. And somewhere along the line, they finally discovered that they they had dyslexia. How did that when you when you finally realized that? What did that do for you? How did how did that really affect you? Jeff Brown  53:52 Well, funny enough, I I can remember a moment where I must have been about eight year old, where a teacher and you know, back in the 70s, teachers weren't as kind, weren't as kind to to schoolchildren as they are now. You know, and and this this teacher singled me out in front of the class and and told me that I was stupid and I wouldn't amount to anything because I kept struggling with this reading and my numbers. And at the time, I I was I was chubby. I had ginger hair, so I didn't have a I didn't have a lot going for us in in the popularity front, and also being you know the the stupid one in the class. So I found it really negative, and I found it really really personal because I didn't realize that I was dyslexic because nobody knew what dyslexia was now, and when I got to my mid 30s, and I went to train to go into the work with the intelligence services and be an image analyst, I had to redo my English and maths all level qualifications that I should have passed at school, but obviously I didn't. I had to do them through the military, and that was when I found out I was dyslexic, and I didn't actually know what dyslexia was until until I made up on it, and then it all made sense. You know why why I'd struggled for so long. I have my own workarounds. I know what my I know what my what my issues are. I mean, now with with with my work, there's so much out there that helps you as a dyslexic. You know, you you have you have spell checker, you have read aloud where you might not be able to see see it. You know, so quite often I'll do a social media post, and I'll I'll get Word document to read it out aloud so I can hear it. But if I if I if I read it back, I can't see the mistakes I've made because my mind doesn't process that. I know when I write a number down, I probably write write it down the wrong way. So if somebody gives me a phone number and I phone it and it's dead, I just change some of the digits around and figure Michael Hingson  55:58 it out. Do you agree? Do you use technology like Dragon, naturally speaking, to dictate? Jeff Brown  56:04 I tend, I tend to. So I started using only in the past six months. I was quite, I was quite sort of against AI, and well, not against it, but everybody was jumping on the chat, ChatGPT bandwagon, and I always tend to do something different than everybody else does. Six months ago, I jumped on a piece of software called Claude, and because I've because I've written five books now, I've written four business books, and I've written a travel book. I also had a lot of content to give to Claude to feed Claude, and then I had transcripts from my YouTube channel, and and then I gave them some do's and don'ts about you know tone of voice and language, and you know I would never say things like this, I would never say things like that. Told them that you know don't be spelling color without a U. Don't put a Z in sympathize because not American English. It's English, English, and the funny thing is, like over the over the past few months, he's he's pretty much replicated my tone of voice, so I can get Claude to write me a social media post, and then I I just tweak it slightly, and I'll make some changes, and then when I've written that social media post, I give it back to Claude and say, can you note? Can you identify the changes that I've made from what you've originally made, Michael Hingson  57:24 right? Jeff Brown  57:25 And take them on board for the next one, and then you give a summary of the changes. And it's yeah, it's it's it's quite impressive. It's quite scary as well because he he says things like, "Am I becoming more Jeff? Yeah, yeah, you are a bit. Michael Hingson  57:42 Well, the other thing is there are programs and technologies, as I mentioned, like Dragon, which is a a technology that you can get where you dictate, and it recognizes your voice, and it will then convert what you say directly into digitized form, which is pretty cool. I use Dragon when I write a fair amount, and and so that that goes back far earlier than AI. Although I'm sure that there are AI, there are AI components to Dragon naturally speaking today. But it's a it's a great program, and it makes writing a lot easier. So rather than typing on a keyboard, I'm speaking, and it is essentially taking what I write, and it just completely digitizes it by recognizing my voice and then putting it out in in in a digital form for me. I can use it with Microsoft Word and other things like that, Jeff Brown  58:41 yeah. And then do then do you listen back to that and then give edits on on what has been on what is being done? Michael Hingson  58:49 Yeah, I can. I just go back and read the word doc, and but it's but it literally is is transcription of what I say, so I can then go back and say, okay, let's fix this, or everything is fine, and I can go even go back and figure out what's misspelled if there are things that it misrecognized. But it works pretty well. Jeff Brown  59:12 Yeah, tech technology is is is fantastic. It's also got it's it's it's I suppose worrying sides for creative people, where there's a lot, a lot of creatives that potentially AI could could really damage their careers going forward. So it's it's interesting to see which direction it's taken. You know, work with it, but then also be aware of it. Michael Hingson  59:40 Yeah. Well, you still need to take control. Jeff Brown  59:43 Yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  59:45 So, what's the most unusual or interesting country that you've ever visited since you do so much traveling? Jeff Brown  59:52 I've been to North Korea. So, 2019 I went to North Korea for New. New Year's Eve to celebrate New Year in in Pyongyang Square with another 100,000 North Koreans. There was only 12 Western tourists in Pyongyang at the time, and we were there for 10 days. So yes, I've I've done North Korea, which it took a bit getting into getting into North Korea. It's not as easy as just you can't go on and book a holiday. He can't choose a hotel. It all has to be done through a third-party agent, and it took about six months to get the whole thing to together. But it was-it was very interesting. It was a completely different than every anything I'd ever experienced before, and it's also supposed to be one of the safest countries you can travel to because you you're followed by the North Korean secret police everywhere you go, even inside buildings, when you're in restaurants, when you're in bars. That nothing could ever happen to you, but the North Korean people would never dare to come up and speak to you anyway, you know. But the the thing with North Korea is everything is everything is orchestrated. Everything is set for you alive and there in advance, so you only ever see what they want you to see. You never see the other side of North Korea. I've also been to Chernobyl, where the the last was that was absolutely fascinating, and last year I went to Transnistria, which is one of these countries that doesn't exist. It's not officially recognized by by the UN, and that was like stepping back into the 1980s Speaker 1  1:01:38 That was, Jeff Brown  1:01:39 but everywhere I've been, you know, I think that that's t

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Cal has a suspicion that the little-known K Economy explains more about where the world is headed than most of what you hear on the news. So he reaches out to one of the world's most masterful interpreters of geopolitics and finance to break it down for the Big Questions audience. As founder of Tanto Capital, Ozan Ozkural flies from one city to the next — advising boards, governments, and investors across the globe, meeting kings, presidents, and financial leaders along the way. Cal met Ozan a decade ago through his pal Larry King, and Ozan became a regular at their breakfast table whenever he was in LA. Ozan is that rare guest who can jump from quantum computing to the Medici family in Renaissance Italy to the future of Chinese demographics in the same conversation. In this episode, Ozan decodes the K Economy down to a level of human evolution that leaves even Cal stunned.

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"The magnificence of who you are far exceeds any fantasy you will ever impose upon yourself."- Dr John DemartiniDr John Demartini is a human behavioral specialist, educator and international authority on maximizing human awareness and potential. Creator of "The Breakthrough Experience®" & The Demartini Method®", "The Productivity Factor", his studies have spanned numerous disciplines and his teachings provide answers and solutions to many of life's questions and challenges. He has written over 40 published books and 170 manuscripts and has produced over 100 online, MP3 educational products.In media . he has appeared on CNN, Larry King, in the movies 'Oh My God' produced by Peter Rodger featuring Hugh Jackman, Sir Bob Geldoff, Dr Demartini, Seal, Ringo Starr & The Opus. As an educator, he constantly travels the globe teaching students from all backgrounds and disciplines the workings of human behavior, how to understand and transform social dynamics and how to activate potential by understanding human nature. To date he has taught his principles and methodologies in 60 countries and has millions of corresponding students in most countries across the world. Dr. Demartini is founder of the Demartini Institute, originator of the Demartini Method® and resides in the United States, Australia and on The World of ResidenSea.~DrDemartini.com© 2026 All Rights Reserved© 2026 Building Abundant Success!!Join Me on ~ iHeart Radio @ https://tinyurl.com/iHeartBASSpot Me on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/yxuy23baAmazon Music ~ https://tinyurl.com/AmzBASAudacy:  https://tinyurl.com/BASAud

In Episode 673 of the New Media Show, host 2017 Podcast Hall of Famer Rob Greenlee welcomes Casey Adams, founder and CEO of Listener.com and host of The Casey Adams Show, for a timely conversation about how podcasting, video, social content, advertising, and new media measurement are rapidly converging. For more than 20 years, podcasting has relied heavily on RSS feeds, downloads, and audio-first measurement as the foundation of distribution and advertising value. That still matters, but the media environment around it has changed dramatically. Shows now are distributed across Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, social video, newsletters, clips, livestreams, and direct audience communities. Audiences may call it all a podcast, even as the industry continues to debate its technical definition. Casey brings a founder, creator, and investor perspective to the discussion. He started podcasting as a teenager, interviewing founders and entrepreneurs, and later built MediaKits.com before moving into podcast analytics with Listener.com. His current work focuses on helping modern publishers understand how a single episode performs across audio, long-form video, short-form clips, newsletters, and social platforms. Rob and Casey explore why the term “podcast” now means different things to different groups. To many longtime industry professionals, podcasting still points back to RSS-based audio distribution. To many younger listeners and viewers, it means a format: a recurring show, often conversational, often video-enabled, and consumed wherever attention already exists. The conversation centers on one of the biggest questions facing podcasting and new media right now: How do you measure the true value of a show when the audience is no longer in one place? Rob and Casey also discuss why the download can no longer carry the entire weight of podcast measurement. A single episode may now generate value through an Apple Podcasts listen, a Spotify stream, a full YouTube view, a YouTube Short, a TikTok clip, a LinkedIn post, an X post, a newsletter mention, and a brand integration that travels across all of those surfaces. Each platform counts activity differently. Each platform has its own audience behavior. That makes reporting, sponsorship value, and campaign analysis more complex. Casey explains Listener.com's concept of episode clusters: grouping the full set of related content around one episode so publishers and advertisers can see the larger cross-platform reach and performance. Instead of treating the audio file as the entire campaign, an episode cluster recognizes that one conversation can become long-form video, social clips, newsletter content, and multiple ad touchpoints. We also discuss the rising influence of creator-led media companies. Examples like TBPN, Jomboy Media, Substack's media activity, and venture-backed new media brands show how independent shows and creator-driven networks are increasingly competing with legacy media for attention, trust, and advertiser value. The conversation explores why companies, CEOs, investors, and major brands now seek to control their own narrative through podcasts, owned shows, and trusted media relationships. We also examine the advertising side of this shift. Brands want better campaign reporting, but they also want context. A host-read placement, a social clip, a full video episode, and a newsletter mention should not all be treated the same. Modern publishers need tools that let them demonstrate the full value of their media ecosystem without flattening every metric into a single misleading number. Meaning for creators. Being a podcaster may no longer fully describe the work involved. Modern show builders are becoming media operators. They need to understand production, audience behavior, platform distribution, brand positioning, analytics, content packaging, and trust. The technical meaning of podcasting still matters, but the audience meaning matters just as much now. For creators, networks, agencies, and brands, Episode 673 offers a clear look at the next stage of podcasting: a media business built around trusted shows, distributed everywhere, measured more intelligently, and no longer limited to downloads. Topics Covered in This Episode: 00:33 Why podcast measurement is changing 01:00 Moving beyond the download 01:44 RSS, streaming, and modern distribution challenges 02:42 Introducing Casey Adams of Listener.com 03:37 Casey Adams joins the show 04:17 What Listener.com is trying to solve 05:00 AI-powered analytics for modern podcast publishers 05:41 Casey's podcasting origin story 06:30 Interviewing Larry King and learning from media legends 07:18 Larry King's warning about rejecting new media trends 08:04 From MediaKits.com to Listener.com 09:15 Rob's early podcasting and radio background 10:04 Why the industry struggles with change 11:00 Does Casey still consider himself a podcaster? 12:00 Podcasts as a format, not just a technology 13:10 YouTube, Spotify, and the expanded podcast ecosystem 14:34 Why modern shows must meet audiences where they are 15:37 The audience now defines what a podcast means 16:16 RSS audio vs the broader podcast perception 17:16 Apple HLS and the pressure on RSS 18:17 The industry needs to accept broader podcast usage 19:26 Younger audiences and podcast consumption habits 20:39 Larry King's quote behind Listener.com 21:25 Why RSS is becoming less visible to creators and audiences 23:21 Respecting podcasting's roots while accepting change 24:00 The Uber analogy for podcasting's disruption 25:41 Journalists, creators, and independent media companies 27:49 Creator-led media and the rise of new media brands 28:33 Legacy media relevance is being challenged 30:13 TBPN and the new media company model 31:28 Treating a show like a full media ecosystem 32:36 Year-long sponsorships and category exclusivity 33:49 Why serious creators must think like media companies 35:19 How podcast analytics supports advertiser relationships 36:00 Silicon Valley's renewed interest in “new media” 37:23 The pandemic pushed legacy media into creator workflows 38:16 Casey introduces the Listener.com platform 39:05 Jomboy Media and creator-led sports coverage 40:00 Episode clusters and cross-platform performance 41:00 Tracking long-form video, audio, and short-form clips 42:18 Episode reports for brands and publishers 43:05 Why every platform metric should be valued differently 44:00 How Listener.com supports campaign reporting 45:00 Aggregating metrics from multiple platforms 46:00 Audio, content, commerce, and newsletter integrations 47:00 Using AI to match clips to episodes 48:00 Listener AI and talking to your podcast data 49:23 Making podcast data easier to understand and share 50:00 Where podcast analytics and AI go next 51:28 AI can guide creators, but execution still wins 52:23 Using AI as a thought partner for content strategy 53:24 Why creators must keep improving their shows 54:47 What drives new media inspiration today? 56:01 Why companies want to control their narrative 57:15 CEOs, podcasts, and trusted long-form conversations 58:22 Substack, owned media, and creator platforms 59:21 New podcast metrics standards and platform conflicts 1:00:35 How different platforms count views and plays 1:02:16 Serving publishers while tracking industry standards 1:03:00 Why brands need better cross-platform campaign reports 1:04:28 Toward better host-read campaign reporting 1:05:14 How platform changes flow into Listener.com data 1:06:00 Why publishers should control their own data 1:07:00 Putting a show's full value forward 1:08:03 Brand, trust, and modern podcast IP 1:09:34 OpenAI, TBPN, and strategic media investment 1:10:32 Why TBPN brought sponsors back 1:11:11 How media brands can help shift company narratives 1:12:15 New media as a strategic communications layer 1:14:00 Lessons from AI-generated podcast network messaging 1:14:46 The risk of platform influence after acquisition 1:16:00 Why the TBPN deal was more than a podcast deal 1:16:39 Will more companies buy or build media brands? 1:17:40 HubSpot, distribution, and trusted voices 1:18:08 Why creators must stay honest with audiences 1:19:40 Authenticity and audience trust in sponsorships 1:20:05 Casey's closing thoughts on podcasting and new media 1:20:34 Rob's closing view on podcasting as one lane in new media 1:21:41 How publishers can work with Listener.com 1:22:43 Networks, independent shows, and Listener.com's go-to-market 1:23:56 Closing remarks and where to find the show Guest Links: Casey Adams, Founder and CEO, Listener.com Listener.com: https://listener.com Casey Adams Show & Website: https://www.caseyadams.com The Casey Adams Show on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-casey-adams-show/id1328795944 Casey Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/casey-adams-430b3114a/ Casey Adams on X: https://x.com/CaseyAdams Casey Adams on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/casey/ Host: Rob Greenlee and New Media Show Links Rob Greenlee Website: https://robgreenlee.com New Media Show: https://newmediashow.com New Media Show Audio on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-media-show-audio/id392545649 New Media Show on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheNewMediaShow Rob Greenlee on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@RobGreenlee Podcast Hall of Fame: https://podcasthall.com Personal / AI Disclosure Note I used AI tools to help organize and edit this episode description and generate show notes from the episode transcript. The views, clarifications, responsibility, and industry perspective are mine and my guest's. This article reflects my editorial direction and the substance of the conversation.The post Podcasting Beyond the Download | Casey Adams, Listener.com #673 first appeared on New Media Show.

What if the single biggest threat to your practice isn’t the market, isn’t AI, and isn’t the competition? What if it’s simply being invisible? Join Duncan MacPherson for an in-depth conversation with Mitch Slater, Executive Director of Digital Communications at UBS and self-described Chief Visibility Officer. With a career that began working alongside Larry King in all-night radio and later spanning 37 years as a financial advisor, Mitch brings a rare and battle-tested perspective on what it takes to get known in today’s marketplace. Together, they explore why AI and shifting client expectations are reshaping financial services into its most significant era yet, and what separates the advisors who will thrive from those who will be left behind. The conversation is equal parts strategic and personal, grounded in real stories and hard-won lessons from decades at the intersection of media, markets, and client relationships. Key highlights include: Answer engine optimization and what it means for advisors Why LinkedIn comments are your highest ROI activity Why personal storytelling outperforms credentials every time How AI should free you up for more high-touch work The compounding effect of one dedicated hour a day on your business Two lessons from Larry King that shaped Mitch’s entire career Tune in for a practical, energizing conversation on visibility, authenticity, and what it really means to get known in the modern advisory business. Promotions: Toolkit CRM by Pareto Systems: toolkitcrm.com Pareto Systems: Practice Management Index (PMI) Connect With Duncan MacPherson: Website: ParetoSystems.com Toll Free: 1.866.593.8020 Learn More: Schedule a Call LinkedIn: Duncan MacPherson Connect With Mitch Slater: LinkedIn: Mitch Slater About Our Guest: Mitchell (Mitch) Slater is Executive Director and Chief Visibility Officer, Advisor Marketing at UBS Wealth Management USA. After a 35-year career as a Financial Advisor, Sales Manager, and trainer, Mitch now helps financial advisors and business professionals increase their visibility through LinkedIn, video, podcasts, personal branding, and AI. A former radio producer who worked with both Larry King and Howard Stern early in his career, Mitch combines media experience with decades in wealth management to help professionals build trust, strengthen relationships, and grow their influence. He is the host of several UBS programs, including Front and Center and Leadership Lounge, and is a frequent speaker at conferences and advisor events across the country. Mitch lives in Westfield, New Jersey, with his wife Leslie and is passionate about helping people “stop being invisible” and get known for what they do best.

In another Pride Month classic from 2022 legendary drag queen and host of the talk show Amber Live! Amber LeMay joined Mark and Nicole for a fun and flirty show,Amber was zooming from Vermont and had lots of positive things to say about the state, from its lush scenery to its "live and let live" attitude (though it seems to be behind on its marijuana laws. She described growing up as a gay man in Ohio as not exactly as Glee depicted and Oprah Winfrey gets some credit in how she came out to her parents. She talked about founding the drag troupe House of LeMay who came directly from the "Hot Damn Trailer Park", raising money for many worthy charities (which included repelling down a 9 story building !), and starting Amber Live! which has given her the nickname "The Larry King of Drag" and given her the opportunity to interview several cast members of the Sopranos, Hal Sparks who showed Amber his thong and none other than Tiger King's Carol Baskin!Amber also flirted with Mark and reiterated that there is nothing "straight" about herYou can order Nicole's new poetry book "Slow Burn" on lulu.comThis podcast is sponsored  byRaze Energy DrinksGo to https://bit.ly/2VMoqkk and put in the coupon code DMS for 15% off the best energy drinks. Zero calories. Zero carbs. Zero crash.

Not that Larry King, just a Larry King. He died last month, as it turns out.

Larry King teamed up with his wife Billie Jean King to start the women's professional tennis circuit in the USA.Baroness Ramsay was MI6 Head of Station in Helsinki during the Cold War and then became a leading figure in Labour politics.Caroline Marland transformed the financial fortunes of The Guardian newspaper as a senior executive in the 1980s and 90s. Valie Export challenged centuries of misuse of the female body from male artists by exhibiting her own form for controversial performances.Archive used: Women's Tennis Association, 03/2024; VisNews, 01/05/1981; BBC News, 12/09/1985; Secrets and Spies: A Nuclear Game, BBC Two, 08/05/2024; BBC Parliament, 02/12/2015; The Money Programme, BBC Two, 14/02/1988; Woman's Hour, BBC Radio 4, 01/06/2000Presenter: Matthew Bannister Producer: Ben Mitchell Assistant Producer: Ribika Moktan Researcher: Josie Hardy Editor: Andrea Kennedy

I hope this quote from Larry King helps you learn new things.   Join the FREE Facebook group for The Michael Brian Show at https://www.facebook.com/groups/themichaelbrianshow   Follow Mike on Facebook Instagram & X

Bill Lampton: Hi, there. Welcome to the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication guy. Every week, hosting a conversation with an outstanding business communication expert so that you and I can learn tips and strategies that will boost our business. Today, it’s an absolute delight to host again, as he’s been our guest several times, John Ray, coming to us from the Greater Atlanta Metropolitan Area. John Ray works with consultants, coaches, attorneys, fractional executives, and other professionals who sell expertise. He helps them diagnose and express their value, price accordingly, and build business through trust, not pressure. He’s the author of the five-star rated book, The Generosity Mindset, which redefines generosity as a professional asset, not as giving everything away. So, I know that you will join me in welcoming our expert for the day, John Ray. Hello, John. John Ray: Bill, what a delight to be with you, as always. Thank you for having me back. I really appreciate that very much. Bill Lampton: Well, I— I benefit every time, and I know that our viewers and our listeners benefit as well. You have built a wide reputation, John, as an expert on pricing. A topic that really, until you tackled it, I’m not sure that I heard very much advice about that. And I think of how [laughter] I could have used that advice three decades ago when I launched my career as a professional speaker, consultant, coach. And like many people, I was ready to take a fee, [laughter] not recognizing that there were options. So, one of my first uh questions, which I think our viewers and listeners will want to know is, what prompted you to get into the topic of pricing, to study it closely and carefully, and then to teach many hundreds through your seminars and through your book? To teach them how to maximize the rewards for the service that they provide. What prompted you to do that, John? John Ray: Well, that uh— that is an easy ans— question and answer for me. Basically, uh skinned knees and— and uh t-shirts in the drawer of— of bad pricing, bad engagements. Uh you know, I— I— I came out of corporate like a lot of people do, uh that don’t really know how to price their expertise, and they don’t know that they don’t know that. Um you know, they— they do what I did, which is kind of use others as a benchmark. And when others uh are pricing inadequately, that by definition, that makes your price inadequate. And we all suffer from that. And so, I saw this problem with my clients as well. And so, I got passionate about it. And— and the— the thing about it is, this— this is not information that— that is widely available to uh small business people and— and particularly expert service providers, like consultants and coaches and fractional executives that go out on their own, like I did, to uh and they’ve got a particular expertise, and they start their business. And, you know, there— there are just not a lot of resources immediately available. There are plenty of good ones out there, but they’re just not immediately available to uh people like us. And so, that’s what got me passionate about it. I went uh down that bunny trail, you might say, learning. And uh eventually, that led to me really focusing my practice around that and, you know, writing the book. Bill Lampton: So, as you say, you really tackled what was a needed topic, but in many ways a neglected topic. And as I said a minute ago, I really had not heard much about pricing services until I started attending your seminars and then soon after that, reading your wonderful book, which we will talk about. What, John, are some of the pricing mistakes— two or three that you see entrepreneurs, solo practitioners make? Who— um tell us what are— are some of the mistakes that you run across commonly with your clients and talking with people individually? Tell us— tell us what are some of the mistakes that you— you not only identify, but you help correct? John Ray: Yeah. So, I— I call them the red flags of inadequate pricing. Uh that’s my nomenclature for— for it. And uh you know, one of those is hourly pricing. If you’re pricing by time, pricing by the clock, uh your— your price by definition is inadequate. Um uh pricing is an input. It’s not— ha— has nothing to do with the outcome that the client receives— the transformation you bring. And it’s genu— genu— genu— generally— I’ll get that out in a second— very uh ha— ha— has no relation whatsoever and— and and much, much uh smaller than a lot of clients would be willing to pay when it’s calculated that way. Another few that I see are uh when— when an expert service provider accepts every client that comes their way. I mean, by definition, your price is too low because some of those folks that are coming your way are price-sensitive. They’re— they’re— they’re uh cheapskates. I mean, they— [laughter] they want to get something for as little as possible. And uh most clients aren’t that way, but some are. And so, if you’re pricing such that every client that comes your way, you’re accepting, what that means is uh your price is not high enough to— to drive away the price-sensitive clients. There’s a couple of them right there. Bill Lampton: Thank you for those. I— I think, John, about, for example, the profession that I know quite well because I’ve been a part of it for three decades, and that’s professional speaking. And there are so many people who cannot understand how, if a professional speaker is hired to speak at a conference or a convention, and they show up, and they’re there, and they give a one-hour presentation, why are they paid $7,500 or $10,000, or if you’re a celebrity speaker, why are you paid $25,000? And people in the mindset, that’s pricing by the hour, and they— they just don’t get it. Um But this moves us to a key point, which you make in your book and in your presentations, which I’ve been privileged to attend. And that is that we’re pricing by results. We’re pricing by benefits. For example, I— I would even take it down to— to the level of the guy who comes and fixes my washing machine. And, you know, he— he charges me $200. And somebody will say, “Well, my gosh, that guy makes $200 an hour.” I’m not paying him for the hour he was here. I’m paying him for the fact that I can use my washing machine again. So, elaborate on that and tell me if I’m on target with that. John Ray: Uh Well, absolutely. I mean, you’re paying— you’re paying him to have uh uh to get rid of those piles of dirty clothes that have been piled up, right? [laughter] Waiting— waiting to get him in there. Uh yeah, you’re paying for uh um uh peace of mind. You’re paying not to have to go down to the laundromat, right? You’re paying— there are a lot of things that you’re paying for beyond just the fix. And that’s, I think, the— the real I think, the— the— not— not secret, but the— the insight here is that clients see more value in us than we see ourselves. I mean, we look at our uh deliverables. Um you mentioned the speech. You know, the speech we give, and we don’t see the other intangibles that we bring to the table that clients willingly pay for and, for a lot— for— for most of them, are most important— most important, maybe even more important, than the deliverables themselves. Uh I mean, for example, someone that’s booking a speaker, they’re running a uh convention, a— a uh uh, you know, three-day kind of uh a workshop opportunity for their association. What are they looking for? I mean, they’re looking for happy association members. And so, when they come out of that speech uh— when those members come out of that speech with uh Dr. Bill Lampton having presented, what they want to hear is, “Wow, thank you so much for booking Dr. Lampton. He was fantastic. You know, I’m going to implement a lot of his ideas.” And uh that’s what they’re looking for, right? They’re looking to help deliver a little bit of transformation to their association members. So, it— it’s not about just the heads in the room or— or or uh the— as you say, the length of time. It’s about what does that speaker booker— what— what do they see in in terms of the outcome that’s going to occur because they hired Dr. Bill Lampton? Bill Lampton: Lois Creamer, John, is one of the— the most uh relied upon experts on what’s happening in professional speaking, since we’re talking about that. And one of the changes that she emphasizes, you know, every time I see her on LinkedIn or Facebook, is that what people are looking for now is not just a— a feel-good speaker, a motivational speaker. Right. They’re looking for a problem solver. Um And I know when I’ve talked to you before about pricing, one of the points you make is that as you’re talking with a prospect, you can help them estimate the value of implementing your services because of the problems it helps them solve and, therefore, they’re economically better off, right? John Ray: Yeah. It’s— it— it’s— it’s what you’re able to do because your problem is solved. So, I mean, let’s take an example of a fractional CFO who saves their client uh let’s say $100,000 because of a project that they have done. It’s not just the $100,000, it— it’s what the $100,000 enables a company to do that they couldn’t do before. So, what are you going to do with that $100,000? Is the question that CFO— that fractional CFO should be asking. Uh “What’s that going to enable you to do that you weren’t able to do before?” Um Hire uh maybe a salesman or two that uh are going to help your bottom line? Well, okay, that’s great. So, wh- what will that do? I mean, what will they bring in? Uh how will that change your business? “Well, you know, it’ll help increase our revenue by whatever percent we think.” Um “Ah! Well, what would that— what would that do for you? I mean, where would that get you as a company?” See, when you start asking these questions and being curious, digging a little deeper, what you find is that the value of what you deliver is not just the $100,000 of savings, as great as that is, it’s what comes out of that. And the value of that is much more significant than uh what we think going in. And that’s the value of questions. Bill Lampton: And what we really need to get across to our prospective clients is that we’re not an expense. We’re an investment. Um And we’re an investment that pays off. And it’s— it’s uh during our exploratory conversations with them, we get to the point where we illustrate how our service for them is a great investment because there will be returns, and efficiency, teamwork, and that good old word, “profit,” correct? John Ray: Correct. And— and I think what we are doing there is it’s not just about, you know, how do you talk a client into hiring you? It— it— it’s part of it, Bill. I think, and you and I have had this conversation before, several times. It’s about the mindsets that we bring to the table, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, we— we have these mindsets of of inadequacy and imposter syndrome. And when we have clients telling us that, “Hey, these are the results I got from working with you,” um “and I what a great investment this was,” I— I think that is what you can lean on instead of those uh ugly little voices in your head that tell you you’re not worthy. Uh Lean on what the clients say. Um And and that changes your language from language like um uh being a cost or being a burden to being an investment, to— to representing a return, representing transformation for someone that’s been uh stuck for a while. Bill Lampton: And we are the objective voice that comes in and helps them discover those items. John, uh in a minute, I want to talk about something that I adopted from you. And your book and your seminars have been a great value to me. And one of the greatest strategies that you taught me, and you’ve taught now many hundreds of others, is about the three levels of pricing. So, we’ll get back to that in just a second. [Commercial Break] Bill Lampton: You’re with the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication guy, and our distinguished guest today is John Ray, author of The Generosity Mindset. Before that short break, John, I mentioned that traditionally, of uh until you [laughter] and other experts started advising us, traditionally, we would present one price for our services when we were talking to a prospect. And yet, you have great rationale, which I want you to share with us, on why instead of giving one price— this is the price, take it or leave it— why we give three pricing levels instead. John Ray: Yeah. So— so, just to be clear, I mean, I didn’t um make this up. I mean, th- this is— this is one of these patterns you see in the business world that when you see it, you can’t— cannot unsee it anymore. Um um Many successful companies have implemented a good-better-best kind of pricing model, uh where “good” is kind of the basic, uh, you know, “better” is a little bit good, kind of in the middle, and “premium” is for those what I would call velvet-rope clients. I mean, they want the— the full um experience of what it is that you can offer. And what— what the value of options are is that different— it helps you align your services with the idea that different clients have different values. I mean, there are some that come to you and they want just the basics. They want to be able to um consume a little bit, um get what they can get out of that, and move on. There are others that, um, they want the full experience that you can give them. I mean, every— they— they love what you do, um they’re— they’re— they want transformation quickly, uh urgently, uh they want to make it happen, and they want to pay up to— to get that. Then, there are some that are in the middle. I mean, they— they want uh— they don’t want the basic, uh but maybe they don’t want to pay for the premium or or um they’re not as anxious, uh maybe to have that transformation as some of the premium clients and, you know, they would buy a uh uh, in that good-better-best construct, they would buy a better option, that middle option. So, what you’re doing is aligning your offering with the idea that different clients have different perceptions of value, and you’re giving people choice. And this just in, uh choices are empowering. People love choices. And when you’re having a conversation around choices, “Which one of these packages makes the most sense for you?” then it’s a collaborative conversation, not a “yes” or “no” to the one offering that you’ve given someone. Bill Lampton: Well, I— I— I know too that um there’s no way of truly estimating which category our potential clients fit, and so that’s why we give them the choice. I remember very well, John, you gave an illustration in one of your seminars that I attended that car manufacturers don’t just [laughter] just uh give us one level of car and that’s it. No, you— you have the low, medium, and the top quality, and you can choose which ones you want. Right. And there are those who could not afford or don’t see the need for the top quality, but would be very happy with that middle item, which meets their budget and meets their— their aesthetic requirements too, right? John Ray: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we see this with uh automobile manufacturers. You can look at their websites and see this. Uh We see it with uh fast-food places. I mean, when you go through a a fast-food uh establishment, what do they have? They have their traditional offerings, uh they have a value meal often, and they have some sort of premium, uh limited-time offer, right? And and so, they have essentially a good-better-best kind of model. They don’t call it that, but that’s what they have. And what it does is it appeals to a lot of different buyers at different— that are at different price points, different willingness to pay. Bill Lampton: I want to get, before we conclude, I want to get to a discussion about your book, The Generosity Mindset. John, I think I wore out two or three highlighters when I read this book. [laughter] And I noted this morning that there are 88 five-star reviews of the book on Amazon. I was privileged to even post a video review there. And the reason I took the time to do that was because the book was for me a turning point professionally, and I’m sure that’s the case for many readers. Tell us, two things— give us a quick, please, overview of what the book will help us accomplish, and then secondly, how we can get the book. John Ray: Sure. Well, and thank you for your support. I mean, I think you were maybe one of the first, if not the first review that I got. I— I haven’t forgotten that, [laughter] Bill. So, thank you for that. Bill Lampton: I was the most eager, that’s why. [laughter] John Ray: Well, thank you. Um Yeah, I think a couple of things. I mean, one is is— is that the book starts out with those mindsets that hold us back. And when we’re pricing our expertise, it— it’s a personal thing. I mean, we’re pricing what comes out of our head, what’s— what’s between our ears, and it’s highly personal. It’s— it’s not uh like pricing a product that comes off an assembly line somewhere or out of a factory. Um Um In our case, the factory floor is between our ears, and that gets personal. And what that brings in is those mindsets that I was talking about earlier that that hold us back, that cause us to um not think of ourselves as worthy sometimes, or not— not pricing to the level that we ought to price at. And— and so, the question is like, how do you deal with those mindsets? And what the book makes the argument for is that clients see more value in you than you see yourself. And so, if you are willing to lean into that and understand that, and understand what clients see— that it’s about client-perceived value, not what you think. What you think is not material. It’s what they think. And what— and the beautiful thing is what they think is— is wonderfully— it— it’s— it’s empowering for you if— because they do see more value in you than you see yourself, and if you price into that value, ironically enough, you’ll be charging better pricing than you would if you just relied on falling back on those old nasty voices in your head. Bill Lampton: Yes, we have to change our mindset, and your book is the— is the playbook for doing that. Tell us how we can get the book, John. I know I mentioned it’s on Amazon. It’s in paperback. Is there a Kindle version also? John Ray: Yes, there’s a Kindle version. Uh Yes, so you can get the book on Amazon. If you— I— those of you that want to uh patronize your local bookstore, feel welcome to do that because you can uh find it or or order it there. Um You can go to the generositymindset.com to learn more about where to buy the book, and and there are some free resources there, including uh the Red Flags of Inadequate Pricing that I mentioned earlier, uh help you kind of self-diagnose whether you’ve got a pricing problem in your practice. Bill Lampton: I encourage our viewers and listeners, if you’ve not had the advantage of reading that book and learning how to improve your pricing, how to improve your conversations with clients, and how to overcome some of the thoughts that have been holding you back, get that book today. John, please tell us your contact information. John Ray: Thank you, Bill. And thank you again for having me. It’s always a delight to be with you. I really— It’s my delight, as well. Yeah, I really appreciate you. Um Yeah, I would love to hear from folks directly. My email is john@johnray.co. Feel welcome to be in touch with questions or comments. And my website is johnray.co, uh so you can uh find out more about me and the work I do there. My blog uh is there as well, that gets regularly updated. And uh feel welcome to follow me on LinkedIn, JohnRay1, where I post a lot of uh information around and— and thoughts around value and pricing. And uh I also have a podcast that’s devoted to this uh area of my work, The Price and Value Journey. So, you can find that wherever your uh— where you consume your podcast. Bill Lampton: Thank you for that. And— and certainly, if you’re on LinkedIn, John Ray is a person you want to connect with. I— I know, John, you were at Vanderbilt. You were— what was it? English and Economics major, was that your double major? John Ray: That was it. That was it. Bill Lampton: And the English certainly shows up [laughter] because you— you write so well um quite a number of times a week, and I benefit and readers will, too. So, be sure to connect with John on LinkedIn. And now that John’s given his contact information, I’m happy to give mine. My YouTube channel is Bill Lampton, PhD. I’ve been posting instructional videos about communication there since 2007. Don’t look back at any of those, please. And in the last 8 years, I’ve gotten away from giving just my own guidelines, but I’ve been hosting the Biz Communication Show video podcast, which you’re partaking in now. And so, I invite you to subscribe to my YouTube channel. And then as for my website, I’m— my tagline is the Biz Communication guy, so go to bizcommunicationguy.com. And while you’re on my website, there’s a chance there, an opportunity for you to subscribe to my podcast, which I hope you will do. I welcome inquiries by telephone: 678-316-4300. And I will talk with you initially without any financial obligation. I’d like to hear your communication problems and strategies, and determine whether I’m the consultant to help you with them, or if not, who I can refer you to. And then, I certainly want to recognize the co-producer of this show, um Mike Stewart, based in Nashville, originally in Gainesville, Georgia, with me, where I’m still based. And John has been my marketing and technology advisor and guide since 1978, and I still rely on him heavily. His website, localinternetpresence.com. John Ray, I think of the— the information that we’ve covered, what— what might be a nugget or a capsule of— of information that in a minute or a minute and a half you could leave with our viewers and listeners? John Ray: Well, wh- when you hear the ad— the advice that it’s not about you, you think that’s negative, and in this case, it’s ironically a positive. Um, you know, a lot of us have grown up with mindsets around money and worth and uh, are we worthy? We, you know, we have imposter syndrome about the work that we do, particularly if we come out of corporate and we’re on our own all of a sudden. Bill Lampton: Which happened with you. John Ray: Which happened with me, and uh, a similar situation with you, you came out of academia and, and, you know, you’re out there all of a sudden on your own, right? Bill Lampton: In unknown territory. [laughter] John Ray: [laughter] And in the— in the wilderness, uh it’s so unknown. And um you let those mindsets that are— those voices in your head, and what’s been drilled into your head, um work on you. And here’s the good news. There’s an antidote to that. It’s— it’s leaning into where— where clients see value. And if you um lean on that, understand that they’ll tell you where they see value. Look at how they review you, how they uh what they write in their testimonials. Um The questions— the quality of the questions you ask, and your ability to be curious will help you dramatically in terms of learning where they see value and pricing into that value, and pricing more adequately than you ever have before. Bill Lampton: And John, one of the— the great revolutions that I think you’ve brought into discussions about dealing with clients, you just mentioned questions, and that’s the value of listening. So, many decades people went in and they had a spiel and they gave the spiel, and they wondered why they were ushered out the door with a polite handshake. [laughter] Yeah. And sometime, the next time I host you, I would like to spend the entire half hour talking about the power of questions and listening, and reflective listening, because those I know from your book and your coaching, those are very central to the success of the entrepreneur, aren’t they? John Ray: Well, they are. And uh I would welcome that because I’m always learning about that, uh Bill. And I think the point is is— is that we overestimate our ability to listen, even if we’re practiced at it, even if we’re intentional about it. The studies show this. So, this— this is not— this is something that we all have this in common, that— that we overestimate our ability to listen and understand what people are saying to us, both uh coming from their mouth and then coming from other ways that they communicate, right? And so, um I think that’s a really important piece of being able to diagnose clients and to price effectively. Bill Lampton: I came across this not too long ago. Larry King, who co— uh hosted 7,000 guests during his career on Larry King Live— many of us remember his shows— Larry King said, “I hosted 7,000 people, and I never learned anything while I was doing the talking.” [laughter] That’s a good thought for us to close on. And in closing, I certainly want to join you, the guest, in thanking, as I know you want to, John Ray, author of The Generosity Mindset. A tre— John is a tremendous asset to everyone who reads his book, attends his seminars, or meets with them individually. Thank you very much for being with us, John. John Ray: Thank you again, Bill. I appreciate you and your work very much. Thank you. Bill Lampton: And thanks to our viewers and listeners. Invite you to be with us again next week for another edition of the Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication guy.

In his twenties, Michael Beckwith had a lucid dream where he died. When he woke up, something had changed... he could see life differently. That awakening became the foundation for a lifetime of spiritual inquiry, healing, and service. In this episode of the Align Podcast, Aaron sits down with Michael Beckwith to explore awakening, fear, manifestation, self-love, and the illusion of separation. Michael shares insights on prayer, surrender, abundance, emotional healing, and what it truly means to live from presence. EPISODE #594 IS SPONSORED BY:

Ben is barking into the powerful Fifth Hour Podcast microphones for a Sunday Special, and the heat is on. The P1s are coming for his neck, accusing him of violating the Geneva Convention of Fandom—serious charges in the court of the Maller Militia. Ben leans in, breaks it all down, and tells his side of the story with trademark wit and bite.Plus, a peek into the ultimate green room: John Sterling, Larry King, Vin Scully, and Genie in Medford—radio royalty and chaos in one place. And for the diehards, Ben pulls back the curtain with insider info on his scheduled return to the overnight microphones at Fox Sports Radio.Listen, subscribe, follow, and support the pod—keep the pirate ship sailing! Follow Ben on Twitter @BenMaller and listen to the original terrestrial radio edition of "Ben Maller Show," Monday-Friday on Fox Sports Radio, 2a-6a ET, 11p-3a PT!...Follow, rate & review "The Fifth Hour!" #BenMaller #FSRWeekendsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ben is barking into the powerful Fifth Hour Podcast microphones for a Sunday Special, and the heat is on. The P1s are coming for his neck, accusing him of violating the Geneva Convention of Fandom—serious charges in the court of the Maller Militia. Ben leans in, breaks it all down, and tells his side of the story with trademark wit and bite.Plus, a peek into the ultimate green room: John Sterling, Larry King, Vin Scully, and Genie in Medford—radio royalty and chaos in one place. And for the diehards, Ben pulls back the curtain with insider info on his scheduled return to the overnight microphones at Fox Sports Radio.Listen, subscribe, follow, and support the pod—keep the pirate ship sailing! Follow Ben on Twitter @BenMaller and listen to the original terrestrial radio edition of "Ben Maller Show," Monday-Friday on Fox Sports Radio, 2a-6a ET, 11p-3a PT!...Follow, rate & review "The Fifth Hour!" #BenMaller #FSRWeekendsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode was originally released on 12/1/2021. While new episodes of Breaking Walls are on hiatus I'll be going back and posting the older episodes. ____________ In Breaking Walls episode 122 we spend the holidays in the old west with Jimmy Stewart, director Jack Johnstone, and The Six Shooter. —————————— Highlights: • Jack Johnstone's Early Radio Career • The State of Network Radio in December of 1953 • James Stewart on the Hollywood Star Playhouse • The Six Shooter Launches • A Pressing Engagement • The Radio Industry - More Than Kin • Britt Ponsett's Christmas Carol • Britt Ponsett Rides Off Into the Sunset • Looking Ahead of January 1954 —————————— The WallBreakers: thewallbreakers.com Subscribe to Breaking Walls everywhere you get your podcasts. To support the show: patreon.com/TheWallBreakers —————————— The reading material used in today's episode was: • On the Air - By John Dunning • Radio Rides The Range: A Reference Guide to Western Drama on the Air — by Jack French and David S. Siegel • Network Radio Ratings — By Jim Ramsburg As well as articles from • The Los Angeles Times —————————— On the interview front: • Dick Beals, Virginia Gregg, and Herb Vigran spoke to Chuck Schaden. Hear their full chats at SpeakingOfRadio.com. • Parley Baer, Harry Bartell, Sam Edwards, Jack Johnstone, Marvin Miller and Vic Perrin were with SPERDVAC. For more information, go to SPERDVAC.com. • Art Linkletter spoke with John Gassman. • Jimmy Stewart was with Larry King and Johnny Carson. —————————— Selected music featured in today's episode was: • Somewhere in My Memory and Star of Bethlehem — By John Williams • The Klezmer's Wedding — By André Moisan • Highland Lament — By The Corries • Sonata No. 1 for Violin, Opus 13: I. Molto Moderato — Played by Michael Davis

Cal stumbles on a Chinese company offering to digitally resurrect the dead for three dollars. His first thought? Larry King would have loved this. In this episode, Cal sits down with Larry King Jr. to explore what it really means to preserve a life. The stories. The voice. The questions. From Larry Sr's relentless chase for immortality. To the Larry King Cardiac Foundation that literally saved hundreds of hearts. To the bobblehead-sized AI facsimile that might one day let your great-great- grandchildren hear your voice. It all adds up to a conversation about legacy, technology, and what we leave behind. Plus! The story of how Larry Zeiger became Larry King in ten minutes flat through a liquor ad and a door that was kicked down.

3pm - I Was Thinking // GUEST: Chris Yetman, former COO of Vantage Data Centers, explains why the energy concerns about data centers are wildly exaggerated // John flew in from New York this morning. It’s got him feeling like Larry King // 'Superstar' runners praised for helping exhausted man finish marathon

6pm - I Was Thinking // GUEST: Chris Yetman, former COO of Vantage Data Centers, explains why the energy concerns about data centers are wildly exaggerated // John flew in from New York this morning. It’s got him feeling like Larry King // 'Superstar' runners praised for helping exhausted man finish marathon

Get AudioBooks for Free Best Self-improvement Motivation Listen with Curiosity | Larry King & Jim Kwik Discover how Larry King & Jim Kwik use curiosity to become better listeners. Boost connection, communication, and focus with simple, powerful techniques! ⁠We Need Your Love & Support ❤️ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Get 3 Audiobooks Free -

What happens when you stop waiting to be chosen and start making your own opportunities? This week on Superwomen, I'm joined by Danielle Robay, journalist, founder and host of the podcast Question Everything to uncover how curiosity became the foundation of her career, and what had to change for to fully step into it.  Dubbed the Queen of Questions, Danielle is a true believer in the power of asking – both on the mic and in real life. She shares how curiosity can open doors, how asking for more leads to better outcomes, and why it's important to authentically build relationships, not just network. Find out how she bet on herself after leaving a job in journalism, her take on how to build confidence over time, and the shift that ultimately changed everything. Take notes because this one will make you stop talking and start asking. Episode Guide: (00:00) Meet to Danielle Robay, the "Queen of Questions" (05:06) Larry King and the art of asking questions (08:03) The importance of asking questions in business  (10:16) Why she moved away from entertainment news (15:13) Starting her podcast "Question Everything" (19:03) Why vulnerability is important for personal growth (25:28) Relationship building vs. networking (31:25) How Danielle created her card game Girls Night In (33:41) Lessons learned from interviewing successful people (36:19) Building confidence through competence and practice (40:30) Advice on asking meaningful questions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when you trust your talent before anyone else does? I had the pleasure of speaking with Spider Saloff, a jazz vocalist and performer whose journey shows what it means to truly create your own path. From secretly rehearsing as a teenager to performing for the Gershwin family and building a career in jazz and cabaret, Spider shares how taking risks, following curiosity, and trusting your instincts can open unexpected doors. We also explore her resilience through personal challenges, including overcoming an abusive relationship and rebuilding her life from nothing. You will hear how music, creativity, and lifelong learning became her anchors, and why choosing your own direction can lead to a life that is both meaningful and unstoppable. Highlights: 00:10 – Discover how a passion for music at a young age can shape an entire life path 02:04 – Learn how early opportunities and saying yes can open unexpected doors 10:00 – Understand why creating your own opportunities can redefine your career 16:20 – Hear how taking bold action led to a life-changing connection with the Gershwin family 30:00 – Discover how one decision can completely change where your life and career unfold 44:44 – Learn what it takes to break free from hardship and rebuild your life with resilience Bottom of Form About the Guest: What does it take to build a lasting career in music and performance? Spider Saloff has done exactly that, earning recognition as a multi-award-winning vocalist and entertainer known for her powerful voice, wide range, and captivating stage presence. Born in Philadelphia and raised in New Jersey, she began her journey in theater at a young age, studying acting at Rowan University and the University of London. Her early career in musical theater included more than 25 major roles, but everything shifted when she discovered her passion for jazz. That move led her to work with top musicians, gain critical acclaim, and begin touring both nationally and internationally. Over time, Spider became one of the most respected interpreters of the American Songbook, known for blending deep emotion with humor in her performances. Her connection with the Gershwin family helped launch signature shows like her tribute to George Gershwin, which has been performed around the world. She has also created tributes to icons like Cole Porter and Irving Berlin, performed at major venues and festivals globally, and hosted the syndicated radio series Words and Music. Beyond the stage, she is a teacher, writer, and creator who helps others find their unique voice, continuing to inspire audiences and students alike through a career built on passion, creativity, and authenticity. Ways to connect with Spider: Website: https://spidersaloff.com LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/spiderjazz Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/spidie.saloff Twitter (@spidersaloff): https://x.com/spidersaloff?s=21&t=XIFFgGFn7E5Hd_8J8Rexfg Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6gKiYyeoZyxZTAI2EpGWbU?si=WudPV-CUQPmMThTtV508Og YouTube (@TheMartinicat): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTLI-Gd51JdcMT0FVvvD9lA YouTube, “When You See Me”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTbO1FWrje4 Instagram (@spider.jazz): https://www.instagram.com/spider.jazz/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I'm your host. Michael hingson, speaker, author and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear, together, we focus on mindset resilience and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, and I want to welcome you to another episode of unstoppable mindset, and we have an unstoppable mindseted, oriented sort of person today. Spider Saloff. Spider is a vocalist. She's a comedian. She is in Chicago, as I recall, but she has been to a variety of places. She is a very highly acclaimed vocalist, a singer. She sings and deals with a lot of the songs that I like, like the Great American Songbook, Gershwin, Irving, Berlin and other things like that. And she has a lot of accolades that come from any number of famous people who you've probably heard of. And so in the course of the next hour or so, I'm sure we're going to hear about a bunch of that. But for now, spider, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad Spider Saloff  01:49 you're here. Well, I'm happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Michael Hingson  01:53 Well, you are, you are most welcome. So how did you get into doing, acting, singing and all the other things that you do. Spider Saloff  02:04 Well, it started when I was a kid. I always loved music, and you know, it was so in love with the arts. But when I was 14, I came home and told my parents that I could get them tickets to the high school variety show. And they said, What? And I told them, I'm in it. I'm going to be in it. And they said, well, doing what? And I said, singing. And they were they were shocked, and I didn't tell them. I used to rehearse at my girlfriend's home because her family was all over it. They thought I was wonderful, and I knew my family would tell me that I couldn't do it so because it's just too foreign and too scary to them. So I ended up performing at this variety show, and my my parents were absolutely shocked, and one thing led to another. And then I met a theater director who worked at my school, and he came, he was a professional guy from New York that they hired to come in to do a musical, and I was in it. And I ended up getting the opportunity to be in a summer stock company and my parents let me go, which was amazing. I think they were just relieved to get me out of the house for the summer, but whatever it takes, but I certainly learned a lot, and I was very young for that experience, but it was, it was so, so worth it. And then after I finished high school, I went to college for theater. Now, your parents are from Russia. Oh, no, no, no, no, they're descend. My father's descendants are from Russia. That's where the name is from. But they are, I think I am about 11 different nationalities. So it's we're real much we are real much of the world. Well, there you go, yeah. Michael Hingson  04:05 So now we need to just clone that combination, since obviously you sing, well, we need to get that in other people, just just, you know, just a thought, you know, Spider Saloff  04:16 sounds good. Sounds dangerous to me. Michael Hingson  04:18 Actually, I know it's either that or we're gonna Spider Saloff  04:21 have to get more, more of one than more than one of Michael Hingson  04:24 me, more than one spider? No, we can't have that. Well, either that or we get AI to to imitate you. But we don't want to do we don't want to do that either, scary stuff. 04:35 Yeah, yeah, it is. Michael Hingson  04:36 Well, so how did you encounter and come up with the name spider. Spider Saloff  04:44 I did not choose it. I, you know, I never thought that my real name made any sense from the time I was a child, it's, I'm like, that doesn't make sense. And then I got the nickname when I was in college, because I have, I'm. Really a small person, but I have very long arms and legs, and it was a nickname, and it just stuck with me. And then finally I surrendered to it as a professional name, and people don't forget it. They may not like me, but they don't forget the name. And then it just stuck. And it's been that way ever since, how could Michael Hingson  05:20 somebody not like you? Spider Saloff  05:23 Well, I don't know. I'm sure there's somebody out there. I would love to thank everyone. Just endorse me, but Michael Hingson  05:31 we'll see. Well, yeah, I mean, it'll all go so where did you go to college? Spider Saloff  05:37 I went to a college that doesn't exist anymore, actually, now it is Rowan University. It's in New Jersey, outside of Philadelphia, and it became Rowan University when it got the largest private donation in history. But it was a state college called Glassboro State College, and it was a fine arts school at the time. There were several of my friends, including the conductor for the Lion King and Broadway people, all went to school there, and now it has no arts program at all. But part of our program, I did get to study at University of London too. So that was really exceptional. And it was so wonderful, a wonderful school, great opportunity. You know, it's, it was outside of Philadelphia, close to New York, and now it's an engineering school. For the most part. There isn't, there are no fine arts there at all. Well, that's too bad. But, well, yeah, I know, but somebody's got to do the engineering, Michael Hingson  06:39 I guess. I Well, there's truth to that too. Now, have you seen THE LION KING LIVE on Broadway? I have Spider Saloff  06:46 never seen it, and it's never seen it. I gotta see it. I've got to see it. I it just never happened. I kept intending to go and I never saw it. And I know people that played for it as well. 06:59 You've seen the movie. No, you haven't seen the movie Spider Saloff  07:02 either, anything Lion King. My goodness, I know I better. That's one of my goals. By the end of the year, let me see if I can see it. Michael Hingson  07:10 Well, I'll tell you my lion king story. A my brother in law knew someone who knew some of the actors in Lion King, and he and his wife and their little girl, who at the time was like three or four, were coming through New Jersey, where we lived in Westfield, and we all arranged to go see The Lion King. It was a Wednesday afternoon. It was a matinee, and near the beginning when scar, the bad guy meets the hyenas, who he works with, they all come on, they come on stage and they're growling and all sorts of things like that. Well, in the theater, the hyenas come from the back of the theater, down the stairs, and they walk past everyone growling and making all these noises? Well, my wife was in a wheelchair her whole life. She was a t3 paraplegic, and when one of the hyenas came up next to her, because we were able to arrange for an accessible seat, which was right on the aisle, this hyena comes up right next to her and goes, you've never seen a woman who is totally paralyzed suddenly literally jump up and almost walk out of the theater. It was amazing. She he shocked her completely. But it was so much fun. And of course, Alanya, the little girl, was just there with these big, huge eyes over all of this. But what Karen, my wife, told me later was that what was interesting about it was that when she was obviously watching all of this, and she said, You got totally used to the the puppets being the animals they were. They didn't you. They didn't even look like puppets anymore. They were just the animals. Spider Saloff  09:05 And that's exactly what I've heard about it, that it's like, it was fascinating. You're completely swept away with it. Michael Hingson  09:10 Yeah, wow. So, so it's cool, but, yeah, you gotta, you gotta go see The Lion King. It is absolutely worth it. The music is wonderful and all that. Wow. So we got to see it on Broadway, which was cool. Well, so you, so you went to college, and then what did you do? Spider Saloff  09:32 Well, when I got out of college, I, you know, was doing theater, but I ended up in musicals because I sang, and I really my training, my formal training, really is acting. I did not train as a singer. I just started singing naturally when I was a teenager, and then I just did a ton of musicals. I was in musicals like forever and but. I always loved jazz, and that was always in my back pocket. And then at one point, I really decided I wanted to pursue jazz while it was still in musical theater, because it was getting harder and harder to get roles, because they wanted, this is in the late 80s. They wanted you to be a dancer as well, and that was not going to happen for me. So I really thought, you know, I just, I want to check out the whole nightclub scene, you know, in Cabaret, where you could produce your own show. And so I started to really pick the minds of the guys in the pit band. And I talked to all these pit musicians, and they would tell me about, you know, places to go, and how they there were guys I met there that introduced me to other people, that helped me to do my first demo, and then started working in clubs. And then that really changed everything for me. Michael Hingson  11:01 So you got very much involved in doing a lot of Spider Saloff  11:04 jazz, yeah, jazz and cabaret, and it was all small clubs. But then that was what got me major press attention. And then I started touring with a show that I co wrote with a guy named Ricky ritzel, who's from New York, and we did a show called 1938 and that was my first recording as well. And then then just kept going from there, and that's how a lot of things happened, was really just deciding to do my own thing and create my own world of performance. So you're also Michael Hingson  11:45 known for doing something related in one way or another to comedy? Spider Saloff  11:50 Well, yeah, I've always done comedic roles, and I can't say I have ever done stand up, but I may be getting close to it, I'm not sure, but I always involve a lot of comedic monologs in everything I do. Like, if you see me at a jazz club, I will tell stories. And, you know, it's part of, part of who I am, is a lot of the comedy stuff. And, you know, crazy stories and telling stories about people, and, you know, doing imitations of people that I've met over the years and that kind of stuff. So it's, it is part of my whole persona on stage. Michael Hingson  12:33 What's your favorite musical that you've done? Boy, it's probably a toughy. Spider Saloff  12:40 I did so many, I have to say, Guys and Dolls. Okay, guys and dolls. I was Adelaide and Guys and Dolls, one of the best roles I've ever done. It was really a good choice for me, and and I, and I have to say I was in what, four productions of Fiddler on the Roof, and I've been two seidels, one Hava and fru masera, so but I love that show. I think it's magical. Michael Hingson  13:21 Just it is. Have you ever been in numb? I like Guys and Dolls, but my favorite, and it's just been that way for a long time. I don't know why was the music? Man, were you ever in the music? Spider Saloff  13:32 Man, I was, but there's no, there's no role in that for me. But I was one of the pick a little ladies. Oh, it is one of my favorite shows. Though, I think it's a masterpiece. I love love love music, man. I think it's just brilliant. Michael Hingson  13:48 You don't think you could have done you? Lily capecni shim you know, Spider Saloff  13:53 I was too young to do it at the time. Michael Hingson  13:54 Yeah. Well, like always, now there's always Marion, Spider Saloff  14:00 no, I don't have the soprano chops for that. They let me do it in Sutton Foster's keys. Well, I was thrilled that they took it down for her, because I could actually do it in those keys. That would be great. Michael Hingson  14:16 I saw it a couple of times on Broadway. Now I'm blanking out on the person it was in. Well, we saw it in, like, 2002 1001 and I'm trying to remember I'm blanking out on the person who played Marion. She actually ended up getting Lou Gehrig's disease and passed away. Spider Saloff  14:43 I don't know who. I don't know, which Michael Hingson  14:45 totally shocked us. Spider Saloff  14:46 I'm drawing a blank, I don't know. Michael Hingson  14:48 Yeah, I'm blanking out on her name. I may think of it, but, Oh, forgive us. She did a she did a great, a great job. But, yeah, but there's nobody like Robert Preston to play Harold Hill. And. Spider Saloff  15:00 Anyway, oh, that movie is so beautiful. I love that movie. Yeah, music, man is brilliant. It really is brilliant. Well, that Michael Hingson  15:10 goes back to, you know, Mr. Mr. Meredith. Meredith Wilson, Spider Saloff  15:18 yes, and I read, I read his book. Have you ever do you know of his book called he doesn't know the territory? Michael Hingson  15:27 No, I'll have to see if I Spider Saloff  15:28 can find writing and production of music. Man, I love, love. Love that book. And it's about all the trials of getting it produced and how he did. They did one of the opening one of the readings when they were trying to raise the money to do it. And moss Hart. Moss and Kitty Hart were there, and they hated it so much they walked out the middle of it. Opening Night, moss Hart was there, and he he saw, he saw Meredith Wilson in the lobby, and he shook his hand, and he said, he said, Great show. But you know what, you still haven't licked that book. Oh gosh, because he was an outsider. I mean, he wasn't part of the Broadway team. And no, the fact that he actually played with a John Philip Sousa, like, what, yeah, couch or something. It was real deal. Like, real real, like, old timey marching band stuff. Michael Hingson  16:35 Yeah, amazing. Well, then he also did The Unsinkable Molly Spider Saloff  16:39 Brown, yes, yes, another great show, yeah, not produced very often. But no, Michael Hingson  16:45 no, it's not. It's, it's sort of sad. Oh, well. But you, you've been very much involved with with a lot of jazz and so on. Tell us about meeting the Gershwin family and and your your involvement with Gershwin, which, you Spider Saloff  17:01 know, he, of course, magical. It was. It was truly a life changing event for me, my partner and I, Ricky ritzel And I had been doing 1938 and then we decided to write this show that was called Porgy and Bess, a cabaret concert, oh boy. And it was in New York, and a very powerful guy from ASCAP came to see it, and Michael kirker, and he came to see it, and he said, this show is brilliant. He goes, but you guys are going to get shut down by the Gershwin family, so you need to call them and see if they'll give you permission. So I had the phone number for Leopold godowsky, the third who is the nephew of George and Ira. His mother is Frankie Gershwin, who was George and IRA's younger sister, and I was a wreck. My hands were shaking, and I called him on the phone and and he was very polite. He just had this incredibly mannered guy, you know, it was really lovely. He goes, Well, you know, I don't see that we could allow Porgy and Bess be performed in a night club, and it wasn't like we were doing the show. We were just right. We were telling a story about how it was written and then just performing the songs as separate entities, but they were enfolding into the story. So I said, Would you would you want to comment? Would you want to see it? If we put it on a videotape, and he goes, Oh, I don't know. He goes, let me think about it. So then I called him back right away. I had the nerve to call him back again. I said, Well, would you come to see the show. He said, you know, what would you and your partner be willing to come and perform it at my home in Connecticut? There you go. And I'm like, What? What? So this whole thing got put together, and we went up to the Gershwins home in Connecticut. We met Leopold and his fabulous wife, Elaine, and they had, they said, we're having, we're having 40 close friends here for dinner. They were cooking dinner themselves, and it was this magical house in Connecticut. They had 40 industry people there. It was crazy. I mean, there were all these famous people there, and we were, we did like, as he called it, a 30 minute musicale. We did highlights from the show in their living room by the great. End piano, and I believe the piano had belonged to George, because Leopold is classical pianist as well. So we did the show, and then we all had dinner, and this friendship started. So what evolved was they, they did, let us do the show, but then my relationship continued with them, and when the Gershwin Centennial started in 1996 it was Iris 100th birthday, two years before George's. In 98 I became part of the centennial presentation, so I got to tour with my Gershwin concert under their brand, and also record my Gershwin album with their brand on it. And it was the beginning of a beautiful friendship. And it was, it was a huge, you know, a huge mark in my career, and it opened a lot of doors for me. So wonderful, wonderful people. Michael Hingson  21:03 One of my favorite pieces of all times. Calling it a piece is probably not totally accurate. It's bigger than that, but one of my favorite things from classical music has always been Rhapsody in Blue. And I don't know why, but the very first time I heard it, I loved it, and I've enjoyed it ever since. I've heard the Boston Pops do it, you know, and and others do it. It's just one of those neat things I've just always loved. Spider Saloff  21:30 I'm getting chills just talking about it, because that was so groundbreaking at the time when Paul Whiteman had the contest right of who was going to be able to cross the borders of jazz and classical. And you know, who else was in that contest was Aaron Copland, oh my gosh, Eric Copeland, and he was always in competition with Gershwin, yeah, and Gershwin won and musically, that that changed the whole concept of jazz, I mean, to be accepted in a classical arena. It was really remarkable. What that what that piece did, like, amazing. Michael Hingson  22:18 I actually heard once the Paul Whiteman arrangement of Rhapsody in Blue was performed by a group I don't even recall where, but it was outside. It was a little different, but it still was just so neat to hear this. Spider Saloff  22:36 The first person to hear it, yep. I mean, Paul, my Paul Whiteman was incredible, though. I mean, what a what a groundbreaking person. He was artistically, right? Michael Hingson  22:48 Yeah, he, he did some amazing things, Spider Saloff  22:51 yeah, yeah, you know what I've got to mention. And I hope this doesn't make make our interview too dated. But last night, I saw the movie Blue Moon. That is about about Larry Hart. Oh, my God, I haven't seen that. I'm gonna have to. It just came out last week. Oh, okay, it's not gonna be very often. It's absolutely gorgeous, and Ethan Hawk plays Larry Hart. It it's it's beautiful and funny and heartbreaking, and it all the whole premise is Larry Hart has to go to opening night of Oklahoma, oh gosh, and how painful it is, and this whole cathartic thing he's going through. So the bulk of the entire it's more like, like a theater piece. The whole thing takes place at the bar at Sardi's when he's talking to the bartender and waiting for for Rogers and Hammerstein to show up. And it's, ah, Wowza, it's brilliant. It's brilliant. And talk about, I don't know how they ever got that produced, because it's definitely a movie that's not going to appeal to everybody, but boy, is it brilliant. Michael Hingson  24:14 Wow. Well, hopefully it will come out in some place where I can can watch it up here, and that'll be cool, yeah, Spider Saloff  24:22 and I think it's probably going to go to streaming pretty soon, I'm sure, yeah. So you'll have a lot of opportunities. But I really was happy to go to the theater and see it. But wow, and people in the audience were laughing at all the jokes they were getting, all the sly, Sly comments of Larry Hart, like, wow, witty, witty, witty, just brilliant, just brilliant. Michael Hingson  24:51 Well, your whole Gershwin relationship, obviously, is pretty significant. You even did some Gershwin concert. In Russia, Spider Saloff  25:02 yes, yes. That was why I went to Russia. They were having a Gershwin Centennial in St Petersburg in 1998 because that is the, that is the origins of the Gershwin family. They are from St Petersburg. And so I was hired with my pianist to go to St Petersburg. And do we? Did we were there for seven days, and I think we did like five concerts, and it was amazing to be there, because this was when Russia was getting good. This was, like the good part, and still was scary. It was scary. We stayed in this really creepy hotel that was like a government hotel, and the rooms were bugged. And then when the hallways there were padded walls, like where they could pull these panels out, and there was all kinds of wiring in there, bugging and strange stuff. The concert hall was absolutely magical. It was an old concert hall, and people went crazy, and when I sang the song vodka, which is an oddity, by Gershwin, by way, herbert stothard, Otto Harbach, Oscar Hammerstein and George Gershwin wrote this crazy song called vodka. And when I did the song, people stood on their chairs and screamed, the Russians just loved, loved, loved the concert, the audiences couldn't have been better, and the people that ran the organization couldn't have been weirder. It was, it was very strange. And when we went to leave, the guy that booked us and me and my pianist, they they took our passports, and we had to go to a little room where they said that we our visas were expired and and we had to pay money to get out of there, and they were mad at the guy that was our manager, because he sassed them. And anyway, we had to wait. We were afraid we're going to miss the plane. And then finally, they came out with, like a little, a little tape from an adding machine, and they, they said, you have to pay $58.23 American. So they charged us this $58 and we paid it and ran to get on the plane and and I'm like, I was never so scared in my life. I didn't know what they were going to do, but it was an experience, and it was thrilling and beautiful. But don't think I'm going back to Russia, not in the near term. Yeah. Oh, and then that's when all these people said, my name is sell off. You are my cousin. I come home with you like there were so many people with my name, because in this country, there aren't that many. Aren't that many sell offs. My family is pretty small, and occasionally I'll meet us a sell off. But they're usually, they're usually rabbis, or it's like there aren't that many of us out there, but it was, it was an amazing experience. Loved it. Michael Hingson  28:28 Now, did you when you were over there, sing any of the songs or anything in Russian, or did that matter? Spider Saloff  28:34 Oh no, oh no, let's didn't do that, huh? I'm not. No, I, you know, I'm good at doing accents, and sometimes I will learn to say, like I would learn a little bit of French to get by, but then they would start asking me questions, and I didn't know what they were saying, and then they thought I was just being a jerk, you know, I'm pretending I don't understand them or something. But it was, No, I don't speak. I can barely handle English, but I didn't know whether you might have Michael Hingson  29:05 tried to learn one of the songs just for fun. Spider Saloff  29:08 There wasn't time. This went together so fast. I think we only had, like, two weeks notice. They had rushed the visas and, you know, we had, we had passports in order, but it was a lot of legal red tape. Michael Hingson  29:25 But that's why it cost $58.33 to get out. I don't know, very crazy one of those things. Oh, yeah. Well, well, at least it was affordable. Spider Saloff  29:41 Well, it will, and it was exciting. I mean, everything was paid for. But, oh, this was another weird thing they paid. They paid us in cash, American dollars, and I needed to hide, I had to hide it in my boot. I put it in. Hide the soul of my boot when I'm okay, wow, yeah, it was, it was creepy all the way down the line. It was very strange. Oh, well, yeah, things happen. 30:11 Things happen. Yeah, I was, Spider Saloff  30:12 I'm very, very, very fortunate that I got, got to do it, yeah? Michael Hingson  30:19 So obviously a wonderful memory. And yeah, oh yeah, one of those things that you'll you'll always treasure. You bet. Well, so when did you move to Chicago? Spider Saloff  30:32 Oh, well, when? When I started to get get my feet wet in New York, in the nightclub scene and the jazz scene, I got some really fabulous reviews, including the New York Times. And there was a guy from Chicago who I met through the great Julie Wilson, and his name was Bill Allen, and he was partners with Bobby Short, and he opened this really crazy club in Chicago, very famous, called the Gold Star sardine bar. And both Liza Minnelli had played there the Basie band. He squeezed the Basie band in there, but it was this tiny little place right in downtown Chicago, and it was really wild. And a lot of people had played there. Tony Bennett had played there, and Liza and I kind of was courting the room. I kept talking to him. He had he had found my press kit. Think he had been sent three different press kits, and we don't know which one he opened, and he called me, and we kept this ongoing conversation about coming out to do performance there, and then finally, he decided to bring me out for New Year's Eve, and my husband and I flew out, and it was just we were we had a couple of friends here in Chicago that we visited, but we didn't know anybody here. I'd never been to Chicago, you know, but it was magical. And then he said, Well, I'm going to have you back. I'm going to have you back. And then I didn't hear from him. And finally, the following September, he asked if I could come and play for a month, and I had almost no warning, because he was very impulsive and really crazy. So he asked me to come out for a month, and I did. They put me up in a hotel, and I played with the musicians. Were magical. People were so great. And so I played for a month, and then he said, you know, what would you think about about moving here? And my husband and I were both excited about it. Then we didn't hear anything from him. And then right after So, the first week of February the following year, he calls me up and said, Could you move here? And I'm like, I guess so. Why he goes, Well, I'll book you here for a year, and we'll arrange to get an apartment. And can you start like next week? Oh, gosh, ah, so I did it. I came out, and then my husband came out. We took a sublet on an apartment right downtown in Chicago, sight unseen. We moved here with our cat, and the rest was history. I ended up having the best nobody has a gig for a year, yeah, and and hired partially by the only person that had a gig forever, who was Bobby Short. So because I had met Bobby Short in New York, and he kind of gave bill the okay, you know, he liked me. And then I, I met Tony Bennett there, and Liza interrupted my show one night and crawled on to the over the balcony, onto the stage. And it was magical. There were lines around the block and and I got, I was courted by the press in Chicago like you wouldn't believe. I mean, it was magical. So when my run was up there, I started working at other clubs, and also I started touring at concert tours of my shows, like the Gershwin show, and started to tour. So it just became another life for me. But I'm, I'm in Chicago forever. As far as I'm concerned. I adore it here. I just love it. Michael Hingson  34:45 So when did you move there? Spider Saloff  34:47 The beginning of 92 Michael Hingson  34:49 Okay, all right, so when Liza, when Liza invaded the stage? Did you guys sing together? Spider Saloff  34:55 No, this is what happened. I had met Liza. Yeah, well, I was still living in New York, and I was friends with Billy Stritch, who was liza's musical director. So he was a friend of mine, and he introduced me to Liza, and because she was he was conducting a bit that big show she did at Radio City Music Hall that was a tribute to Vincent Minnelli. Right? She did this spectacular show at Radio City, and Billy was musical directing, and that's when they really became partners. And he introduced me to Liza, and she was just a doll, one of the nicest, coolest people in show business. So I met her, and she was really kind to me, very friendly, very sweet. And so they were playing at the Chicago theater. Liza was doing her one woman show, and it was closing this particular Saturday that I was at the Gold Star, and I had sent Billy a note to to, you know, come by when they're we're done. So I'm doing the second set. And then crazy Bill Allen at the break. He goes, he goes, Okay, people are going to come in here. Joe Pesci is going to come in and and he's going to come up and meet you. And I'm like, Joe Pesci. Joe Pesci was doing a movie here, and his double, his gangster double, used to come in and see me at the gold star. So anyway, the break comes, I'm on stage, and all of a sudden the door opens, and they come in, and it's, it was Billy and Liza and Joe Pesci. And Joe Pesci comes up on stage with Billy and my band kind of crawls off the stage, because by now, there are, there's about, I don't know, 200 people packed in a 70 person room, and their people are coming out of the woodwork. They're like, sitting on top of the bar, and I can't even get off the stage. And Joe Pesci. Pesci leans down, he's like, hey, hey, honey, my my double. He thinks you're great. He goes, Yeah, we're gonna do some songs now. And I'm like, okay, so I sat there, and Billy came up and played. The bass player was there with them. Joe Pesci got up and sang. He was adorable. And then Liza is sitting right by this. They called it the opera box. There was a big, like private table that was right next to the stage. She crawls over the bar onto the stage, and people are just screaming. It was absolutely nuts. And she did like three songs, and she was losing her voice. She had just done a killer thing at the Chicago theater, and she was really, like, raspy. Did it anyway? And she ended with New York, New York, and people were like, screaming. It was just bonkers. It was bonkers. And so that's what the Gold Star was like. It was just a crazy place, and you didn't know who was going to come in the door, who was going to interrupt your show? You just, you just didn't know. Michael Hingson  38:24 Yeah. And they even had the Count Basie orchestra there, and that was, how'd they fit him? How'd they Spider Saloff  38:30 fit him in? Couldn't fit them. It was like a publicity stunt, yeah, and the band was all stuffed in there, and there were a few people that could get in the room, but people were standing in the hallway to hear Pacey pants. This is way before my time. Yeah, it was like in the early 80s, when they opened and they were way crazier then, then when, when I came, Michael Hingson  38:53 you settled them down. Did Spider Saloff  38:55 you No? No, but they, they, they, well, I was there for a year, and then the following year, I went back a few times on Saturdays, and then Bill told Jeremy Conn and I that we were going to be the regular actor because they were always on the verge of closing. They wouldn't have any liquor, and somebody would be coming in the back door with liquor because they didn't pay their liquor bill. And it was, he was in a lawsuit. And anyway, they told us that he goes, Yeah, yeah. Call me on Tuesday and we're gonna we're getting all the details straight. Now. You guys are going to be regular. Here Tuesday came and there were chains on the door. Oh, gosh. And that was the end of it. It ended, and it was a magical time, but there were a lot of problems, a lot of legal problems going on. Michael Hingson  39:50 I met Liza Minnelli once. That was the second or third time I was interviewed by Larry King, and she was now. She was going to perform on the show as well, but it was after September 11, and so I got, I got to meet her, and that was about it, but I did get to meet her, which was fun. Exciting. It was fun. How exciting. And every time we walked out after the interviews, there were lots of photographers outside. Everyone was taking pictures, and we had to put up with all that, but I guess it provided a lot of visibility, but it was kind of fun to be able to do that. Spider Saloff  40:34 How cool. I never met Larry King. I knew a lot of people were on his show. But well, how exciting that you did it twice? Michael Hingson  40:43 Well, actually we there were five interviews with Larry. The first one was right after September 11. It was on the 14th. And then there was another one. There was either one or two more. I think there was one more in November of 2001 and then on the anniversary, in 2002 was the third. But there there were five altogether, and during one of them, and I think it was the one on the anniversary or in 2002 but I have to go back and see if I can research it. But anyway, Hillary, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer were, were there? Lisa Beamer, Todd Beamer, his wife Todd's the guy who said, let's roll on flight 93 when they took over the plane again and got it in a crash in Shanksville. Wow, and and Queen. Nor was there. So who I'm sorry, Queen nor from? Who is the queen of Jordan? Oh, wow. And she and she and Roselle had a thing for a while. Roselle was my guide dog at the time, so they visited. It was kind of fun. Oh, wow. But, yeah, it was, it was interesting. But as I say, then we, we did meet Liza briefly, and that was kind of fun. She said she's Spider Saloff  42:09 a doll, yeah, doll. Oh, yeah. What a great person, yeah. Michael Hingson  42:13 Well, so I was looking at all the things that you sent me, and I noticed Tony Bennett. I got to meet Tony Bennett once we were on Regis and Kelly live in November of 2001 and I was sitting there, and I heard that Tony Bennett was going to be on the show. And suddenly he comes over and he says, Hey, I'm Tony Bennett. Good to meet you. I've heard about you. So we chatted for a while, and he and Roselle had a thing too, and he and Roselle had a thing too. Spider Saloff  42:45 So that was good. Oh, that Roselle. Oh, but yeah, I met him at the Gold Star, and he because he had played there several times, you know, as a future act. And he was doing, he was in. He was in town to do something. Maybe it was at the Chicago theater as well, but he came in, hanging out in his in his white dinner jacket, absolutely charming. And he sat down and talked to me between sets. It's like talking to your uncle, like he's like, Yeah, what do you think of this weather here in Chicago, and it was like just the friendliest, most laid back, cool guy and and I've seen him perform several times. I adored him. Michael Hingson  43:32 I regret I never got to see him live other than hearing him do, other than hearing him on regents and Kelly, he did a New York state of mind. Spider Saloff  43:41 Oh, cool. Very cool, Michael Hingson  43:43 wow, very soft spoken guy. But when he can sing, he can he could Bell it, Bell it out, Spider Saloff  43:49 and he and he sang the same forever, like, that's my my idols are. I want to sound the same forever, and I have the two, the two, the two most remarkable preserved voices were Ella Fitzgerald and Mel Tormey, both of them, they had chops forever like that. They they were just very, very careful and smart about the way they use their voices. Michael Hingson  44:18 Yeah. Johnny Mathis lasted a long time. I don't know what he sounds like. Spider Saloff  44:24 He just sounded the same forever. Yeah, killer, woo hoo, wow. And I never got to see him live, but I know people that did, and I mean, not that long ago, and they were blown away. Like, just Yeah, killer, yep, Michael Hingson  44:43 amazing, another amazing guy. Well, so have you ever had any any real kind of challenges and sort of negative things that have happened to you in your life? You've obviously been very successful. And all that. But, you know, unstoppability oftentimes happens when you have a challenge. Spider Saloff  45:05 Oh yes, well, you know, small things, challenges. I mean, like the worst, though, was when I was very young, a young actress, I got swept away by a guy that was a director. He was 10 years older than me, and I ended up in a really terrible abusive relationship for years, and didn't know how to get out, and I did. I ended up doing a six part. I have a YouTube channel, and this was two years ago. I did a six part series called learning to love you, and it was the very subject of what happens in abusive relationships and why people stay and why they are convinced that they can't live without the person. They're convinced that they're powerless. They are told they have to depend on this person, and they're very afraid. And I I was so lucky to break away from there and get out. And when I got out. I mean, I this guy completely left me with no money, no home, no job, and I was so ashamed to tell my family. I didn't tell them till months after it had happened, and I went, you know, trying to get trying to get more work as an actress. I worked as a bartender in a comedy club, and I did that's what I had a lot of comedian friends because of that era, and my friends, and eventually my family, really helped me to get out of it. But I had to get I had to be independent through the whole thing, I my first place I ever I was homeless for six months, and I would go around on busses going between wherever and Atlantic City because the casinos were there. So I could get a free ride to Atlantic City and then get a free bus back to New York. I could get a bus back to Philadelphia. I could go around on these busses and just stay at people's houses a couple of nights a week, and not having a place to live, it was horrible. So when I finally moved somewhere, I moved in with an actor friend of mine who had just got out of his abusive relationship, and I slept on the floor of an attic for like, the first six months that I was living on my own, and I was so grateful to have that floor and and I just kept saying every night before I went To bed, it it gets better from here. It's going up, it's going up, and it did. It did. It was it's remarkable. It's remarkable. Michael Hingson  48:09 What? What did you learn from that relationship? Spider Saloff  48:14 Beware of predators. I really never, never lose sight that you're the person in charge. Yeah, you are the person in charge of your life, and you're the only one that's allowed to do that. And you don't, you don't bend to anybody that's asking you to do anything too far. You just, you have to be very skeptical about, you know, who's getting close to you? And I was married long after that, I was married to my husband, and he passed away, oh, 16 years ago, and but there's been, there's been a lot of strange loss and and trauma. But I I am blessed with resilience, and I have to say, the thing that keeps me steady music, music and beauty and art can carry me through anything, and I'm surrounded by that and the best, best, best friends in the world. Oh, man, and my family and my friends are amazing, and I'm very, very fortunate, very fortunate. Michael Hingson  49:32 How long were you married? Before he passed away, Spider Saloff  49:35 we would have been married 17 years. Oh, my wife, Michael Hingson  49:41 my wife. My wife and I were married 40 years. She passed away in November of 2022 lot. Well. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I I always say when I when I tell that to anybody that she's watching from somewhere, and if I misbehave, I'm going to hear about it, so I don't even. Chase the girls. I also point out that they're not chasing me, so it's okay, but, but, but, you know, so many wonderful memories after 40 years, and people say, Well, are you going to move on? And I say, No, I'll never move on. I'll move forward, but I won't move on. I don't want to forget, but I'll move forward. Spider Saloff  50:20 That's an interesting twist of words there. Yeah, no. I mean, I have moved my life has become, actually, way, way better since my husband passed. I was dealing with a lot, and he was, he was dealing with severe mental illness, and it was very it was very hard near the end, my life is beautiful now. And I, I'm just, I feel like everything is new all the time. And I, I don't really have any close relationships, in romantic relationships. I tried a couple since he passed, but I don't, I don't think I'm good at it. I do better on my own. I'm much better on my own. Michael Hingson  51:18 Yeah, yeah. I know what I know what you mean. And as I said, it'll be three years in two weeks for me and I, when we got married, we had both lived alone. And when she was when she passed, it wasn't totally all of a sudden. So I I had some time to prepare. But it it has worked out pretty well. And so now I have a dog and a cat who keep me honest. The cat especially, oh, we have a cat. Her name is stitch, and she likes to be petted while she eats, and she'll yell at me until I come and pet her while she's eating and what. And when I travel somewhere to speak and I come home, I hear about it for quite a while. How could I ever do that? But she's not left alone. You know, I've got somebody who comes in. She has to give me what for? Well, she does. That's her obligation. Just ask her, absolutely, yeah. And how come you took that dog with you and not me? It's a guide dog. Spider Saloff  52:20 So this is not fair, yeah. Michael Hingson  52:24 Well, the other side of it is, I don't want her to ever get the idea that she can go out of the house. She She developed, on her own, a fear of going outside we she went out into our garage once when we first moved in here, and I kept calling her, she wouldn't come in, so I turned the lights off and I closed the door, and 10 seconds later, she's at the door wanting in, and so she doesn't try to go out. So I really feel blessed that she Spider Saloff  52:49 Yeah, that's good, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a cat that never wanted to go near the door either, because he had been an alley cat. Everything outside that door was the alley going back there. Yeah, he also was a, he was a big fat house cat. Like, just wanted to lay around and luxuriate and eat and, you know he was, he was really a sweetie. I don't have pets anymore because I'm I leave too often? Michael Hingson  53:21 Yeah, you travel a lot. Well, a lot we at least I have people to help take care of stitch when I'm not here. So it does work out. Yeah, so do you so with all the things that you've been doing and singing and so on, do you teach voice to people? Spider Saloff  53:40 I do. I've taught at a school I didn't start teaching till I moved to Chicago, and this guy named David bloom, he's kind of a Chicago icon. He's had a jazz school in Chicago for years, and he asked me to teach at the school about a year after I moved to Chicago, and I said, I don't know how to teach. He said, Yes, you do. You just teach what you know. And I started teaching. And then I did courses there for a long time. I met a lot of people, and I've had wonderful students, and I still work there on occasion when we have a course. But I teach privately now, and I am. I just love it so much. I mean, I learned so much from my students all the time. You know, they're, they're just amazing, and they're all different, all different voices, all different age groups, all different reasons why they want to sing. But it's, it's one of the joys of my life. Students, they're fantastic. And I adore teaching voice. And I really a coach, you know, I teach performance and coaching, and it's not so much technique. I do some technique, but mostly it's working with. What, what the singer has to offer. Michael Hingson  55:03 I like the way you put it though that you learn so much from students. I think the day we stop learning, the day we become useless, we we always need to learn, learning, and life is all about learning, every Spider Saloff  55:15 day, learning, you bet it's exciting. It keeps you ticking. Michael Hingson  55:21 It does. It's so much fun. And it's, you know, like the internet, I regard it as an as a wonderful treasure trove. There's always neat stuff to learn. So I don't worry about the so called dark web and all that. You know, I didn't know that I would Spider Saloff  55:35 learn as much as I did about, you know, the internet and and the things covid really well. I always, always had a website. I had a guy that became my webmaster, that heard me radio and like there were all. I always was connected with it. But to the extent that I learned how to produce videos that all happened during covid, I really thought I was never going to be performing again live. I you didn't know, you know, that talk, you know, it was just so such a weird world. All of a sudden it was but learning to adapt. That was what we all learned from covid, was adapting and being open to new experiences. You know, that was a major, major factor of the whole thing. Michael Hingson  56:23 And living alone, you have to cook your own food. Spider Saloff  56:25 And like I've always, cooked my own food. Oh, my God, do I love to cook. Yeah, every day for myself. I love cooking and throwing parties. I must be Michael Hingson  56:35 a little bit lazy. I enjoy cooking. But when Karen was here. We shared the responsibility, and it's it's a lot to cook for one person, so I don't do as much of it as I used to, but I don't suffer. I will Spider Saloff  56:50 point that out you guys suffer, no, but I probably I cook for myself. Every day I cook. Almost everything I eat, I don't cook for myself is when somebody magically takes me to dinner or I go to somebody's house. I've got a lot of friends, so I get to eat at other people's houses and go out to restaurants, but I do and look forward to cooking for myself. I just can't wait to see what am I gonna have today, like I get excited about it. You know, it's a joy for me. Michael Hingson  57:23 I cook more easy meals, but I also do my own cooking. I mean, I don't go out very often, and that's fine. Yeah, I enjoy being home. I enjoy being home with a puppy and a kitty and listening to the radio and all that sort of stuff. So I hear you fabulous, fabulous. So you did some work on on radio series. Spider Saloff  57:45 Oh, yes, one of the, actually, the very first pianist that I worked with at the Gold Star sardine bar is a guy named Brad Williams. And we've been friends for years, and then at one point, this, this this guy that was a big fan of mine, Bill Sheldon. He was an old way, older fellow. The three of us created a radio series that's called Words and Music, that's about the American Songbook, and we were on the air for two and a half years. We were on we were part of NPR, and we were syndicated internationally, all through our classical station here in Chicago, W FMT, and it was the most challenging but wonderful time to crank those shows out. We never worked so hard as we did for that show, but those are still out there, you know. And we the copies of that show are available on CD. People can purchase them, and you can learn about that on my website too. Michael Hingson  58:49 I have been collecting old radio shows since 19 Well, let's see, probably 1968 and I've collected a bunch, and I'm also part of the radio enthusiast of Puget Sound, so we recreate programs every year. So I wasn't able, I wasn't able to be at the one that they did up in Washington State in September, because I was speaking somewhere. But there's going to be another one around. Well at Christmas, it's actually going to be the fifth, fourth, fifth and sixth. I think it is. Of December, we're going to recreate something like 12 or 13 different shows, and that's a lot of fun. Spider Saloff  59:34 Wowza, what are the shows like? What is it comprised of performance or recordings or what? Michael Hingson  59:42 No, no, we're actually going to perform live up in Washington, and people are invited to come and be in the audience, and they'll also be broadcast on yesterday usa.com and yesterday usa.net whichever you go to yesterday, USA is a, is a network. It's, it's got a red net. Work in a blue network, just like NBC used to have, and they play old radio shows and a lot of interviews with people. So there's still some old radio actors who will be there as part of it, Carolyn Grimes, who played Zuzu and it's a wonderful life will be there, and Beverly Washburn, who was on the Jack Benny show, and and there'll be other people, and it's kind of neat. And Larry Albert, who will be doing some of the voices, and who's was Harry Niles for years, and still is, I guess, on NPR and and so on. But it's really fun. Spider Saloff  1:00:39 That's excellent. What a blast. Yeah, it is, wow. Well, have a happy holidays with that. Michael Hingson  1:00:46 And yeah, well, I want to thank you for being here. How do people reach out to you, if they'd like to, to reach out, or if you Spider Saloff  1:00:54 want them to my website, spider jazz, calm, and you can find everything and too much information about me, and then, and if you want to get in touch with me directly, write to my email address. Spider jazz@gmail.com makes it easy. And maybe you can take private lessons, because I teach on Zoom. Ah, there you go. Me how. Yeah, cool. Michael Hingson  1:01:20 Well, thank you for being here, and I want to thank you all for listening today and watching whichever you do or both. Love to hear your thoughts about our conversation. Feel free to email me. Michael H, i@accessibe.com that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, wherever you're monitoring us today, please give us a five star rating, and please give us a review. We love your reviews. We appreciate your input. If you can think of anyone who you think ought to be a guest, and if you listening out there want to be a guest, please reach out to me. We're always looking for more people to come on the podcast. We met spider through someone else who has been on the the podcast as well. And spider, if you know anyone who want who you think ought to be a guest, yep, love to hear from you. I got some ideas, cool. Well, I want to once again. Thank you for being here. This has been absolutely fun. Spider Saloff  1:02:16 Thank you, Michael, what a blast. I'll be talking to you soon. Michael Hingson  1:02:24 Thank you for being here with me on unstoppable mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about if you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hinkson.com and download my free ebook, blinded by fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset you.

This episode was originally released on 9/1/2021. While new episodes of Breaking Walls are on hiatus I'll be going back and posting the older episodes. ____________ In Breaking Walls episode 119 we continue our Americana mini-series by bringing our appetites to the diner. We'll hear stories from some of radio's best and center ourselves around shows taking place in establishments. —————————— Highlights: • What Exactly is a Diner? • Lux Presents Hollywood • Suspense At the End of World War II • The Diner After World War II • Bill Conrad, Burt Lancaster, and The Killers • ABC Takes Friday Nights With This Is Your FBI • Frank Sinatra and His Rocky Fortune • Going Back to Gunsmoke • James Earl Jones and Theater Five —————————— The WallBreakers: thewallbreakers.com Subscribe to Breaking Walls everywhere you get your podcasts. To support the show: patreon.com/TheWallBreakers —————————— The reading material used in today's episode was: • On the Air - By John Dunning • Network Radio Ratings — By Jim Ramsburg As well as: • From Hash House to Family Restaurant: The Transformation of the Diner and Post-World War II Consumer Culture — By Andrew Hurley from The March 1997 Journal of American History. And other articles from: • Paste Magazine • Smithsonian Magazine —————————— On the interview front: • Parley Baer, Conrad Binyon, Norman Corwin, and Lurene Tuttle spoke to Chuck Schaden. Hear their full chats at SpeakingOfRadio.com. • Parley Baer, Jerry Devine, Lawrence Dobkin, Fred Foy, and Bob Maxwell, were with SPERDVAC. For more information, go to SPERDVAC.com. • William Spier spoke with Dick Bertel and Ed Corcoran for WTIC's The Golden Age of Radio. Hear this full interview at Goldenage-WTIC.org. • John Dehner was with Neil Ross for KMPC. • Frank Sinatra spoke with Arlene Francis, Walter Cronkite, and Larry King. • William Conrad with Chris Lambesis. • Norman Macdonnell with John Hickman of WAMU for his Gunsmoke documentary. —————————— Selected music featured in today's episode was: • Theme From A Summer Place — By Percy Faith • I've Got The World on a String and Why Try To Change Me Now — By Frank Sinatra • The Venice Dreamer Pt1 and 2 — By George Winston • Across the Alley from the Alamo — By The Mills Brothers

Hi there- hope you had an outstanding St. Paddy's Day and didn't indulge TOO much... Welcome to this week's Flavors of Northwest Arkansas podcast. I'm John Engleman- thanks for being here. This week, we're in Rogers at Michoacana Ice Cream, where there's much more than Ice Cream, and owner Arturo Rodriguez? A very colorful past-life in LA.. but before we get to that?!?! FOOD NEWS!! Cura Osteria in downtown Rogers has given us a grand opening date... kind of Scoops Ice Cream is open in downtown Springdale, but not without injury! Parlor is open in The Ledger. Dice Goblins' Café is officially open! Not a bad day to open the Fermentary Brewery! Goodcents is open in Fayetteville. Jaclyn's Kitchen re-opens this week in a new location! Trash Ice Cream has their eyes in Fayetteville. Downtown Fayetteville is getting a new brewery. Casa Alejo will be opening a 3rd spot! Fayetteville's Golden Corral is officially closed. Panda Express is coming to Springdale. We'll tell you where. A chili cook-off? You had me at “A”. This time at Black Howler Maxine's Tap Room turns 76, Michoacana and The Odd Soul turn 9, and Stoic Brews turned 1! Michoacana Ice Cream Owner Arturo Rodriguez is originally from Columbia, but came to the US to work with his brother in LA. He eventually got into broadcasting and built his own broadcasting school which happened to be at the same location for CNN in LA. He was on the same floor as Larry King, and some VERY famous guests would get lost and end up at their school accidentally, including one singer that might've been the most popular in the world at the time. Arturo will tell that story. So how does one go from having a popular broadcasting school in LA to Northwest Arkansas? That's another story, and of note- cows don't listen to radio... You'll hear what that means. Finally, Michoacana- known for their homemade ice cream, but becoming known for their food as well... You'll hear about that from owner Arturo Rodriguez of Michoacana Ice Cream in Rogers on this week's edition of the Flavors of Northwest Arkansas!

August 4-10, 1990 This week Ken welcomes adult content superstar, D&D player (Seducing the Dragon podcast), high coutuier fashion fan and voracious reader, Ryan Keely. Ken and Ryan discuss wearing lashes, Boston area horse races, growing up in the Pacific Northwest, the best time to start drinking, serial killers, supplying the world's Holly, Lifetime network, skinflicks, skinemax, adult content, daddy issues vs mommy issues, the thing adult content providers and stand up comedians have in common, Friday the 13th, mobbed up movie production, being afraid of horror films, shopping addiction, how Shalom Harlow is the absolute best, never finishing your fantasy prose story, comic books, Stan Lee, never reading the comments, ice skating, knowing nothing about the Goodwill Games, growing up without a TV, Star Trek : The Next Generation, Wrestling, body building, boxing, Night Court, Larry King, Marlon Brando, loving The Princess Bride, learning more about Carey Elwes, bringing back Supermodel of the World, sailing, Battlestar Gallactica, head injuries, catty women hating fashion takes and the erotic value of Jeopardy. 

My newsletter: https://simonowens.substack.com/   For most of his career, Scott Brown has operated at the crossroads of Hollywood and the creator economy. After first breaking into digital media during the early days of web series, Scott went on to work across a wide swath of the modern media ecosystem. His résumé includes producing hundreds of hours of Larry King programming for streaming platforms, helping Dwayne Johnson launch a YouTube channel that quickly surpassed a million subscribers, and even producing large-scale stunts for MrBeast. Throughout that journey, Scott developed a front-row seat to how digital platforms were steadily reshaping the economics and creative possibilities of entertainment. Today Scott believes the next major shift is already underway: the rise of microdramas—short, vertically shot scripted series designed for smartphones and often monetized episode-by-episode inside dedicated apps.  In our conversation, Scott explained how he stumbled upon the emerging format, why he believes it represents the first truly native form of scripted storytelling for phones, and how his own microdrama projects are helping push the medium toward higher production quality.   

If you're into pop culture, great stories and some outstanding (un)retirement advice, you will love this episode! Mitch got his start as a producer for The Larry King show. He also shares a hilarious on air experience with Howard Stern. There's also his experience as a contestant on a new show (at the time) called Love Connection and his work on the Love Boat.  When Mitch hit his 30's his dad suggested that he may want to get a "real job." He went on to have a very rewarding career in Financial Services for 35 years. But what about now? What Mitch is doing in his 3rd period (he likes to break his life into hockey terms) is very cool. He's combining his accumulated skills from his days in the entertainment broadcasting with all his financial advising background to teach financial advisors the modern day skill of storytelling through podcast, video and social platforms. At 65, Mitch finds his 3rd career is very fun and rewarding. • More about Mitch Slater: https://www.ubs.com/content/dam/assets/wma/us/insights/events/documents/mitch-slater-bio.pdf  • Mitch's YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/@mitchslater191  • Episode Content: https://pickleballmediahq.com/blog/mitch-slater-interview-from-broadcasting-producer-to-advisor-to-digital-creator  • Sponsored by Capital Advantage: https://capitaladvantage.com/promotion/retirement-planning-guide • Sponsored by How to Retire and Not Die: https://garysirak.com/how-to-retire-and-not-die  • I Used to be Somebody World Tour: https://pickleballmediahq.com/tour/all-tours  • Subscribe to the the I Used to be Somebody Newsletter: https://pickleballmediahq.com/contact/subscribe 

This week's throwback guest is Cal Fussman. This was a very special interview for me, because Cal is one of the major reasons why I started podcasting in the first place. He made an appearance on Tim Ferriss' show, to which Tim talked him into starting his own show. As both of them are my podcasting inspirations, I knew this was going to be a good one! Cal is a New York Times Bestselling Author, Professional Speaker, Storytelling Coach, and host of “Big Questions” Cal was best friends with Larry King and shared breakfast with him every morning. He also traveled around the world for 10 years straight after booking a 1 way ticket to start a trip. He worked his way around the world, bus by bus where locals would invite him to their house to stay (more about this in the episode).Cal was a former writer for Esquire Magazine, where he interviewed a very impressive list, including: Muhammad Ali, Mikhail Gorbachev, Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Jimmy Carter, Robert DeNiro, Donald Trump, Al Pacino, Joe Biden, Larry King, Ted Kennedy, Tony Bennett, Barbara Walters, Bruce Springsteen, Dr. Michael DeBakey (father of open-heart surgery), Pele, Vint Cerf (co-creator of the Internet), George Clooney, Lauren Hutton (first super model) Leonardo DiCaprio, Dr. Dre, Walter Cronkite, Clint Eastwood, Mary Barra (General Motors CEO), legendary coaches John Wooden, Bobby Bowden and Mike Krzyzewski, Salman Rushdie, Tom Hanks, Shaquille O'Neal In this episode, we discussed:How A Good Question Can Get You To The Most Powerful Person In The WorldUkraine and Their Fight For A Free SocietyBuilding The Connection Bridge How Every Step back Is A Step Forward Rethinking Healthcare in America How To Tell Your StoryMuch More! Please enjoy this week's episode with Cal Fussman____________________________________________________________________________I am now in the early stages of writing my first book! In this book, I will be telling my story of getting into sales and the lessons I have learned so far, and intertwine stories, tips, and advice from the Top Sales Professionals In The World! As a first time author, I want to share these interviews with you all, and take you on this book writing journey with me! Like the show? Subscribe to the email: https://mailchi.mp/a71e58dacffb/welcome-to-the-20-podcast-community

"WE GOT F*****." Legendary Marlins color commentator Tommy Hutton announced this will be his final season in the booth, so the crew discusses the greatest sports broadcasters in South Florida history, including Larry King. Wait, what? Also, Greg takes down adults who wear gloves at baseball games, Trysta gives the crew some College Basketball knowledge, and Chris exercises bad judgment. Today's cast: Dan, Greg, Zaslow, Chris, JuJu, Mike, Trysta, and Roy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get AudioBooks for Free Best Self-improvement Motivation Listen with Curiosity – Larry King & Mindset Discover powerful listening and communication strategies from Larry King and Jim Kwik. Learn how curiosity boosts connection, focus, and influence. Get AudioBooks for Free ⁠We Need Your Love & Support ❤️ https://buymeacoffee.com/myinspiration #Motivational_Speech #motivation #inspirational_quotes #motivationalspeech Get AudioBooks for Free Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Lynne D. Kitei, M.D. is an internationally acclaimed physician and award winning health educator with a distinguished career spanning over 35 years. She was the Chief Clinical Consultant of the Imaging-Prevention-Wellness Center at the renowned Arizona Heart Institute in Phoenix before pushing her successful medical career aside to pursue the source and meaning of the historic Arizona mass sighting event of March 13, 1997, which has become known across the globe as the "Phoenix Lights". Dr. Kitei has dedicated her life work to community education, appearing as the resident health reporter for NBC affiliates in Philadelphia and Phoenix, as well as USA Cable and worldwide since 1976. After coming forward in 2004, her riveting photo evidence & interviews have been featured in hundreds of radio, print, & TV reports, as well as Feature Films including Coast to Coast AM, SIRIUS, THRIVE, The After-Life Project. National Geographic TV, FOX Network News, FOX in the Morning & America Live with Megan Kelly, ABC, CNN, NBC, CW and CBS affiliates, Comcast, NBC Japan, MSNBC, French, UK & Spain Primetime TV, Dateline NBC, Larry King, Hawaii 5-0, Unsealed, UFO Hunters, the Travel Channel, Discovery Channel, and the History Channel. Dr. Lynne's internationally award winning Phoenix Lights Documentary and bestselling book, The Phoenix Lights…A Skeptic's Discovery That We Are Not Alone are the definitive works concerning the most important mass UFO sighting in modern history. In addition, after 35 years producing award winning video/workbook prevention-education curricula concerning the reality of vital health issues, distributed by Discovery Education, Dr. Lynne is currently developing a comprehensive curricula for 5th to 12th grades concerning the reality of THIS vital issue called “OUT OF THE BOX”. To learn more, PHOENIX LIGHTS NETWORK Facebook page and PHOENIX LIGHTS NETWORK website. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Trevor Loudon Reports – Ghislaine Maxwell carried forward this legacy, partnering with Epstein in a blackmail empire. The latest Epstein file releases, despite heavy redactions, point unmistakably in this direction. Epstein's own activities link back to Iran-Contra money flows and overlap with figures like Larry King from the Franklin Cover-Up scandal in Nebraska, showing a consistent pattern of...

Larry King used to tell me: "Nobody loves a hurricane like the weatherman." I learned exactly what he meant during the last winter storm — when the forecast was certain… and reality had other plans. It's why I've stopped trusting forecasts the way I trust people.

SEASON 4 EPISODE 49: COUNTDOWN WITH KEITH OLBERMANN A-Block (2:30) SPECIAL COMMENT: BREAK the cover-up of the ICE murder of Renee Good: 1) INVESTIGATE regardless -on the state and county levels. 2) INDICT and ARREST the ICE shooter, Jonathan Ross (and the Trump militia members who were with him as accessories). 3) IMPEACH Homeland Security Chief Kristi Noem, Ice Director Todd Lyons (and Border Czar Tom Homan. Representative Angie Craig says now the Noem impeachment will proceed). 4) Iif Noem or any other ICE or DHS official continues to stonewall local investigators seeking justice for the murdered women, indict and arrest them for OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. 5) When the Senate takes up the resolution to fund the government past January 30, all Democrats must refuse to vote yes unless ICE is neutered (and Trump's magic war wand as well). This is a pivotal moment in American history. ICE's reaction to its crimes has been to double down. It is now hiding behind this empty, corrupt demand that we all need to improve the “tone” and when they say “we” they mean “you” and when they say “tone” they mean “any criticism at all.” Tom Homan went on Fox and actually added to this bankrupt bromide, NEW threats. "There will be more bloodshed unless we decrease the hateful rhetoric.” Translation: if you keep criticizing us, we will keep shooting you. The acting ICE chief, Lyons, may be even worse. He is daring Minnesota to enforce its laws. “My message to the sheriff is: try and arrest my folks, let’s see what happens.” What should happen is the sheriff serving warrants to Ross, Noem, Lyons and the rest of their ICE street gang - with the Minnesota National Guard standing behind the sheriff. ALSO: Why are these fascists so obsessed with killing Americans? It may be the guns. Not the access to them: the physical impact on a shooter's brain by firing a weapon, as established by new tests. Plus updates on Trump doubling down on his Epstein Cover-up, Jim Jordan's moronic decision to let Jack Smith testify in public, and some Trump madness we should encourage. He wants to repel from a helicopter like Navy Seals. Yes please! Do it! B-Block (32:00) THE WORST PERSONS IN THE WORLD: How Will Chamberlain, Laura Loomer, Matt Walsh and the philosopher of MAGA, Catturd, 180'd on action in places like Venezuela once they realized Trump had 540'd. The headline says 'Visas for Only Fans Models' but the article does not. And the only person who thinks Stephen A. Smith is a Democrat or a viable presidential candidate is Stephen A. Smith. Up to now it's been funny and a little sad. But now that he has defended the murder of Renee Good and sucked up to Trump and MAGA, it has to be said: to save the brand that they and a lot of people worked their lives to build, Disney chief Bob Iger and ESPN president Jimmy Pitaro have to fire Smith. Oh and - accordingly - I've re-named Stephen. C-Block (45:00) MONDAYS WITH THURBER: Only fitting. Next month it will have been a startling 95 years since James Thurber prophesied the advent of Trump. What would happen when America finally lionized its Worst? "The Greatest Man In The World."See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week, Scheana and Kiki Monique are back in the studio—and truly all over the place. They react to a study suggesting straight men may be gayer than they let on, weigh in on the debate around men dominating female spaces, unpack golden-child dynamics, pet cloning, hookup culture, and the wild phenomenon of fans diagnosing medical conditions from reality TV. Kiki opens up about her own journey with sexual fluidity, while Scheana shares a spicy story she left out of her book… Plus: why has Scheana seen Wicked: For Good three times? Which SLOMW cast member is Larry King's sister-in-law? And which body part is actually the best predictor of, ahem, male anatomy size (spoiler: it's not feet)? Tune in to find out! Follow us: @scheana @scheananigans Co-Host: @thetalkofshame Purchase your very own copy of the NYT Best-selling book MY GOOD SIDE at www.mygoodsidebook.com!Episode sponsors:The RealReal is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale. With thousands of pre-loved luxury arrivals daily, no one does resale like The RealReal—and no one makes the holidays shine brighter than The RealReal. And now, get TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS OFF off your first purchase when you go to The RealReal.com/goodasgold.Get last-minute hosting essentials, gifts for all your loved ones, and decor to celebrate the holidays for WAY less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Wayfair. Every style. Every home.Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.Produced by Dear Media.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.