Podcasts about mopp

In episode 64 of the MOPP, we chat with freshly crowned cash-game world champ Pedro "Biluzin" Toledo about his rise up the stakes and his epic performance that took down the championship

In episode 61 of the MOPP we chat with high-stakes MTT player Justin Saliba. Justin breaks down what it truly takes to perform at the highest levels of poker. We talk about “war mode,” the mental state he uses to lock in quickly, manage emotions, and stay sharp under pressure—especially in deep runs and seven-figure spots. Justin shares how fatigue exposes your natural tendencies, why recovery and structure matter, and how he balances technical study with peak performance.

In episode 59 of the MOPP we sit down with live high-stakes NLH cash-game player Vlastimil Pustina for an honest, wide-ranging conversation about the emotional and mental evolution required to thrive in high-stakes poker. Vlastimil opens up about his transformation from a carefree, party-fueled lifestyle to one grounded in self-awareness, intentional routines, and inner work. We explore how poker can act as a mirror for self-discovery, uncovering the roles of fear, perfectionism, and overstimulation in sabotaging performance. The discussion dives into the power of mindfulness, the importance of emotional regulation, and how understanding one's inner critic and managing dopamine are critical for sustained growth. They also examine the differences between online and live play, how ADHD can be a strength when understood properly, and why recovery routines and setting boundaries are essential for long-term success. Whether you're looking to move up in stakes, improve your mindset, or simply reconnect with the love of the game, this episode offers a deeply human look at poker as a path to self-mastery.

In episode 55 we chat with High-Stakes Cash-Game player and Entrepreneur Nick Howard. We explore the evolution of poker and what it takes to build a sustainable, player-focused ecosystem. They reflect on the shift from technical strategy to placement, mindset, and behavioral awareness, highlighting the traits that separate high-performing players from those who stay stuck. The discussion covers how access to private games and strong networks has become more valuable than traditional content, and why adaptability, emotional intelligence, and self-correction are now essential for success. The conversation closes with a look at the future of poker—one where trust, integrity, and player experience take center stage, balancing the needs of both professionals and recreational players to build a healthier, more connected industry.

In episode 56 we chat with High-Stakes Mixed-Game specialist Benny Glaser. Benny opens up about his poker journey—from his early competitive drive to becoming one of the most accomplished mixed games players in the world. We dive deep into the mental game, the transition from online to live poker, strategic breakthroughs, and what it really takes to thrive in high-pressure environments like final tables and grinding series. Benny also explores the psychology of poker with insights from Adam Carmichael, shares his favorite formats like Badugi and Deuce to Seven Triple Draw, and reflects on how experimentation, emotional resilience, and narrative control shape long-term success. You don't want to miss this one!

In episode 53, we sit down with high-stakes poker pro, content creator, and entrepreneur Elias “ZerosPoker” to explore his evolution from dominating online cash games to building a thriving brand through YouTube and his poker school. Elias opens up about his journey, the challenges of juggling multiple roles, and how he's learned to structure his life for long-term success. We dive into how he balances poker with content creation, the systems he uses to stay efficient, and his philosophy on growth, health, and happiness both at and away from the tables. Whether you're a grinder, creator, or builder—this conversation is packed with insight and inspiration.

In episode 54 we chat with High-Stakes MTT play Thomas Boivin. Thomas shares how his engineering background shapes his analytical approach to poker, balancing solvers, ICM, and intuition. He and Rene dive into the complexities of MTTs, the importance of simplifying strategies, and the different dynamics of playing as an aggressor or defender. They also explore emotional regulation, documenting knowledge, and overcoming fear at the tables. Together with Adam, they discuss career setbacks, personal growth, and the power of small, consistent actions. The conversation highlights the role of healthy routines, vulnerability in coaching, and how dedication and self-awareness drive long-term success.

In episode 50 of the MOPP we are chatting with one of the biggest winners in online poker, high-stakes PLO cash-game player Grazvydas Kontautas. Grazvydas shares his journey from starting poker young to becoming a pro, discussing mindset, game selection, and self-criticism in his growth. He explores the balance between poker and personal life, risk management, and insights from game theory. The conversation covers transitioning from No Limit Hold'em to PLO, common mistakes, strategy creation, and the role of coaching. Grazvydas highlights the importance of feedback, community, and unorthodox strategies for maximizing EV. He reflects on poker's future, lifestyle factors, and the lessons learned, offering advice for aspiring players on finding balance and success in the game.

In episode 51 of the MOPP we chat with american high-stakes cash-game player Armin "AbsoluteTopUp" Amini. We dive deep into his journey, mindset, and experiences at the World Cash Game Championships. We discuss the highs and lows of battling the best, dealing with massive swings, and the lessons he's learned along the way. Armin shares how he transitioned from gaming to poker, refined his study process, and developed the mental resilience needed to compete at the top. We also explore key poker concepts, from understanding blockers to balancing exploitative and solver-based strategies. Plus, he reveals the biggest mindset leaks holding players back and the traits required to reach high stakes. If you're serious about improving your game and mastering the mental side of poker, this episode is a must-watch.

In episode 52 of the podcast, Casimir Seire shares his incredible journey from aspiring footballer to professional poker player. He opens up about the mental resilience gained from his time in the military, the thrill of tournament play, and how he balances ambition, preparation, and emotional control in poker. We dive into the challenges of variance, the importance of structure in poker and life, and how to navigate the emotional rollercoaster of high-stakes games. Casimir also discusses risk management, avoiding burnout, and the key traits necessary for long-term success in poker. If you're looking for practical strategies, mindset shifts, and inspiration to improve your poker game (and life), this episode is for you!

Darshan H. Brahmbhatt, Podcast Editor of JACC: Advances, discusses a recently published original research paper on Management of Postpartum Preeclampsia and Hypertensive Disorders (MOPP): Postpartum Tight vs Standard Blood Pressure Control

In episode 49 of the MOPP, we invited recently crowned cash-game champion Owen "PR0DIGY" on to make his second appearance on the channel. Owen shares what he has been up to since we last spoke reflects on his recent cash-game world championship win over at coinpoker. We will chat about the thrill of competition, mental challenges, and the balance between technical skill and psychological resilience. He shares insights on adapting to opponents, game plans, and balancing instinct with strategy. The conversation delves into player dynamics, overcoming personal weaknesses, thriving under pressure, and navigating perfectionism. Owen also offers advice for aspiring players, emphasizing thoughtful decision-making, learning, and maintaining top-level performance.

In episode 45 of The Mechanics of Poker podcast, we dive into the fascinating journey of Yolan, a world record holder in memory turned high-stakes poker player. Learn about the techniques he used to master memory, his insights into effective learning, and the strategies that helped him transition into poker. Yolan shares his approach to balancing life and poker, building resilience, and overcoming burnout. Discover the lessons he's learned from mistakes, his thoughts on decision-making, and the habits that have driven his success. Whether you're looking to improve your memory, level up your poker game, or gain inspiration from a unique story of growth, this episode has something for everyone. Don't miss the key takeaways and advice Yolan offers to help you achieve your goals!

In episode 46 of The Mechanics of Poker podcast Marc Goone will reveal the to mastering live poker as he shares his journey from musician to high-stakes player and coach. We dive into the mindset shifts, strategies, and common pitfalls that separate the top 1% from the rest. Learn how to build confidence in your exploitative strategy, dissolve your ego, and set realistic goals for success. Whether you're transitioning between live and online poker or aiming to refine your skills, this conversation is packed with insights to elevate your game. Plus, Marc reveals the biggest lessons from his coaching journey and what the future holds for him. Enjoy!

In episode 47 of The Mechanics of Poker podcast, we dive deep into the journey of Felix "GWValuetown" Maierhofer, an inspiring poker player who rapidly climbed the stakes with remarkable success. We explore his unique approach to studying, overcoming challenges, and developing a winning mindset. Felix shares insights into the importance of reflection, discipline, and passion, while also discussing his strategies for maintaining focus, navigating downswings, and mastering the mental game. Felix shares stories about his personal growth, life philosophy, and approach to building a supportive peer group, this episode is packed with valuable lessons for anyone who is interested in becoming a better poker player. Enjoy!

In episode 48 of the MOPP, we dive deep into the poker journey of Belgium high-stakes MTT player, Pieter Aerts, a seasoned pro with 16+ years of experience. From starting out on his dad's account as a teenager to mastering the transition between different poker formats, Pieter shares how he overcame early struggles, dealt with tough competition, and climbed the ranks to success. We explore critical topics like bankroll management, overcoming downswings, leveraging GTO tools, and balancing poker with life, relationships, and long-term goals. Pieter also reveals mental frameworks, lessons from rock-bottom moments, and strategies that helped him stay ahead in a rapidly evolving game. This episode is packed with insights, inspiration, and practical advice to help you navigate your own journey. Enjoy, like & subscribe!

In episode 42 of the Mechanics of Poker podcast we dive deep into the journey of high-stakes cash-game player Mateo "schyllae" Urretavizcaya, exploring his early beginnings in poker during the pandemic and how his background in engineering helped shape his learning process. We discuss his competitive nature, transitioning from semi-professional basketball to poker, and the challenges he faced, including busting his bankroll twice and dealing with his worst downswing. Mateo shares insights on bankroll management, handling pressure, and channeling aggression strategically. We also touch on his self-development journey, mindset shifts, and balancing theory with exploitative strategies. Tune in for valuable lessons on poker, mindset, and performance at the highest levels!

In episode 43 of the Mechanics of Poker podcast, we dive deep into the inspiring journey of Mario, who started playing poker at the young age of 13. Mario shares his unique strategies for bankroll management, how he handled the pressures of high-stakes poker, and the pivotal moments that shaped his career, including his first big win and the shocking realizations about his game. We also discuss the personal side of Mario's life—why he decided to leave professional football, the challenges of separating his identity from his former career, and his views on long-term success in poker and beyond. We cover the role of networking in poker, the darker side of being a high-performer, and his approach to creating a more sustainable and enjoyable poker journey. Finally, Mario reveals his thoughts on transitioning into the business world, the lessons learned from working with solvers, and how his poker skills have translated into new ventures.

In episode 44 of the Mechanics of Poker podcast we have a chat with high-stakes cash-game player Samu Alto, a veteran who has thrived at the tables for over 15 years. Samu shares insights into the evolution of poker strategies, the impact of solvers, and the skills and habits that have fueled his longevity in a highly competitive field. We discuss his early career, the challenges of adapting to new metas, and the delicate balance between theory and exploitative play. Samu also opens up about his journey through highs and lows, the lessons learned from setbacks, and the routines that keep him sharp and motivated.

In episode 41 of the pod we chat with high-stakes cash-game player Chris "Lukabrate" Nguyen. We will explore his rapid rise to high-stakes which only took him three years. Chris shares insights on balancing math and creativity in poker, the role of empathy, and the dangers of relying too much on solvers. We also discuss his journey from university to full-time poker, the impact of his father's confidence, and the mindset shifts that helped him excel. Whether you're new to poker or a seasoned player, this episode offers valuable lessons and inspiration for your own journey.

In episode 40, we chat with high-stakes MTT player Alexandros "Pwndidi" Theologis about his transition from gaming to poker. Alex discusses how gaming prepared him for poker's challenges, including managing variance and expecting worst-case scenarios. He shares his disciplined approach to bankroll management, studying, and dividing grinding and study days efficiently. We delve into his experiences with BitB, handling mistakes, and recording sessions for improvement. Alex also provides insights on PKO tournaments, moving from mid to high stakes, and his study guidelines. Tune in for Alex's valuable advice on managing emotions, understanding poker statistically, and maintaining a love for the game. Enjoy!

In Episode 39 of the podcast, we chat with Finnish high-stakes cash-game player Severi "TheIPoker" Palmu. In this episode, Severi shares his journey, which started by playing conservatively at 2NL, grinding his bankroll all the way up to playing 10KNL. We touch on how Severi keeps up with the ever-evolving poker world, his biggest strengths as a player, the best and worst advice given in today's poker industry, being curious, self-critical, and the most important things to factor into your decision-making. We close off with various lessons learned while reflecting on his 8-year journey. Enjoy!

In Episode 38 of the podcast, we chat with the 2022 Main Event champion, Espen Uhlen Jørstad. In this episode, we discuss the biggest contributors to Espen's success in poker, as well as the unforeseen struggles that came with winning the main event. Espen shares stories from his childhood and how they have shaped his current behavior. Other topics we touch on include competing at the highest level in Triton events, the motivation for continuing to play poker at a high level after winning the main event, how to perform at your best, and mental health and loneliness in poker. Packed with wisdom as always! Enjoy!

In episode 36 of the MOPP we chat with hungarian high-stakes poker player Laszlo "Lackoo87gcb" Molnar. Throughout the episode, Laszlo shared valuable advice based on his 15 years of experience playing poker, offering insights into skill development, study techniques, and managing motivation in the game. Laszlo shares his motivation for pursuing a career in poker, his background in competitive gaming, the upsides and downsides of risk-taking, the importance of finding useful information in poker, and the role of habits and routines in performance. Additionally, we dive into topics such as the power of critical thinking, the dangers of survival bias, the significance of working with coaches, and the keys to longevity in poker. Enjoy!

In episode 37 of the MOPP we chat with long-time finish high-stakes MTT player Samuel "€urop€an" Vousden. In this episode european delves deep into the mindset, habits, and strategies that have propelled him to the top of the game. From insights on staying at the peak of your performance, the importance of being and remaining curious, creating an enviroment in which your creativity and style of playing can flourish, to managing mindset and energy, this conversation is packed with invaluable lessons which can help boost your poker career. Enjoy and like this video if it helped you in any way.

In Episode 33 of the MOPP, we chat with long-time high-stakes MTT pro and holder of the number one spot on the Germany all-time money list, Fedor Holz. In this episode, Fedor shares insights into his journey, why he decided to quit poker and pursue other opportunities in business and investing, and why he decided to make his comeback on the poker scene. Next to that, Fedor discusses handling success, imposter syndrome, and the pitfalls of the poker world. He delves into the mechanics of his Pokercode program, his views on data analysis, and his role in ensuring fair play on GGPoker. Plus, learn Fedor's strategies for staying at the top and his philosophy on efficient learning. Don't miss out on this fascinating conversation with one of poker's brightest minds!

In Episode 34 of the MOPP, we chat with high-stakes cash-game player Sergii Levchenko better known as Jayser1337 online. Discover the mindset, strategies, and breakthroughs that propelled Sergii from $100 NL to $1K NL and beyond. Delve into the psychology behind success, the art of reflection, and the drive to be the best. Join us as we explore Sergii's highs, lows, and the invaluable lessons learned along the way. From battling cognitive biases to building a resilient belief system, this episode offers a roadmap to mastering both the game of poker and the game of life. Tune in for insights, inspiration, and actionable advice from Sergii's journey.

In episode 35 of the MOPP we chat with one of the biggest volume grinders out there, Frank "Mr Builderman, aka Mayothedon". In this podcast discover how Frank recognized his talent, embraced high-volume play, struggled with adiction, and navigated through the ups and downs of being an online poker pro. Gain valuable lessons on resilience, self-awareness, and finding balance amidst the grind.

In episode 32 of the MOPP, we chat with the number 1 on the all-time money list, Bryn Kenney. Bryn shares with us why he likes to take on a lot of risk and how to deal with million-dollar swings, even going broke several times in the process. We will touch on mistakes players make who just look at the solver and the endless realm of possibilities poker strategy has to offer if we give ourselves permission to be creative. Enjoy!

In episode 30 of the MOPP we will have a chat with high-stakes poker player Kayhan “Kayhanmok” Mokri. In this episode we will explore strategies, experiences, and insights in to making it to the top. Whether you're a seasoned poker pro or just starting your poker journey, this episode is packed with valuable insights you won't want to miss. Tune in and make sure to subscribe for all the poker wisdom coming your way!

In episode 31 of the MOPP, we will have a chat with high-stakes poker player Nikolai "Dyrdom1" Evdokimov. Nikolai will share with us his journey, going from speedcubing and sports betting into poker, and all the perspectives he has learned throughout this journey. Enjoy!

In episode 29 of the MOPP we chat with poker player, coach, strategy creator Patrick Howard. In this episode we discuss Patrick's inspiring poker journey, the importance of work ethic, structured learning approaches, adapting to player pool tendencies, battling downswings and mental hurdles, coping with burnout and anxiety, mental health struggles, the significance of reaching out for help, poker's isolation challenges, and much more. Whether you're a poker enthusiast or looking for insights into mental resilience, this podcast has something for you. Don't miss out!

In episode 27 of the MOPP, we chat with high-stakes PLO player and enterpeneur Fernando "Jnandez87" Habegger. Discover what attracted Fernando to poker and why he invested $2500 in a PLO strategy book. Learn about the entrepreneurial spirit that led him to view poker as a thriving business opportunity. Fernando shares how he leverages his unique skill sets, embraces risk, uses data, making a difference in poker and life and offers invaluable advice on skill development and strategic game selection.

In episode 28 of the MOPP we chat with high-stakes cash-game player Owen “PRODIGY” Messers. In the pod we discuss his recent 100k HU match against Doug Polk and dive deep into his poker journey, discussing challenges, strategies, and his transition from international-level chess. Unpack the psychology behind decision-making, understand the mechanics of poker, and discover how to optimize your game with solvers. Owen also touches on the balance of talent vs. hard work and shares invaluable lessons he's learned along the way. Don't miss Adam and Rene's main takeaways at the end!

In episode 26 of the MOPP, we will chat with israelian all round high-stakes NLH player Barak Wisbrod. Barak shares his journey from starting as a degenerate gambler to becoming a high-stakes pro. Discover how he overcame the hurdles of going broke multiple times, transitioning from MTTs to cash games, and finding his place among poker's elite. Barak's story is a testament to the power of resilience, embracing pain, and evolving one's approach to achieve success. Gain insights into the mindset and strategies that separate mid-stakes players from high-stakes contenders. From handling massive swings to building a high-stakes network, this episode is packed with practical wisdom and inspiration

In episode 25 of the MOPP, we will chat with one the biggest american online cash-game winners Matt "ILuvAvrilLavigne91" Marinelli's. From deciding to pursue poker full-time to finding a supportive poker tribe, Matt shares his experiences and the biggest mistake he overcame by implementing simplified strategies. Matt's transformation from 100NL to 5KNL, overcoming downswings, and shaping a winning mindset are truely inspiring. Tune in for an in-depth look at poker success, self-belief, and the mindset of a true champion. Don't miss the key takeaway towards the end Matt wants you to walk away with!

In this episode we chat with brazilian high-stakes cash-game player Matheus "Xpl01t4bl3" Pinheiro. Matheus reflects on the importance of presence, the drive to push beyond comfort zones, and his struggle with setting goals. We explore his transition to professional poker, facing setbacks, anxiety attacks, and the power of therapy. Matheus shares insights on self-care and his experiences with coaches. From coping with downswings to mindset shifts, he offers valuable lessons and reflections on his career. Don't miss Adam and Rene's summary at the end!

In todays episode we talk with dutch high-stakes MTT pro Jans "Graftekkel" Arends on the back of his Triton wins in Vietnam where he took home close to 1.5 milion dollars. We cover the road he had to walk in order to get himself in the position to compete daily in some of the thoughest fields in the world. Enjoy!

The early 1970's saw the start of the medical specialty we now know as oncology. How does one create standards and practices for patient care during that time? Dr. John Glick is a pioneer during the dawn of oncology. He says that early work involved humanity, optimism, and compassion, all of which were the foundation of his career. Dr Glick describes the clinical experiences that drove him to oncology (4:28), his rapport with patients, which was portrayed in Stewart Alsop's book Stay of Execution (9:21), and his groundbreaking work developing the medical oncology program at the University of Pennsylvania (12:22). Speaker Disclosures Dr. David Johnson: Consulting or Advisory Role – Merck, Pfizer, Aileron Therapeutics, Boston University Dr. Patrick Loehrer: Research Funding – Novartis, Lilly Foundation, Taiho Pharmaceutical Dr. John Glick: None More Podcasts with Oncology Leaders    Oncology, Etc. – In Conversation with Dr. Richard Pazdur (Part 1) Oncology, Etc. – HPV Vaccine Pioneer Dr. Douglas Lowy (Part 1) Oncology, Etc. – Rediscovering the Joy in Medicine with Dr. Deborah Schrag (Part 1)  If you liked this episode, please follow the show. To explore other educational content, including courses, visit education.asco.org. Contact us at education@asco.org.   TRANSCRIPT Disclosures for this podcast are listed in the podcast page. Pat Loehrer: Welcome to Oncology, Etc. This is an ASCO education podcast. I'm Pat Loehrer, Director of Global Oncology and Health Equity at Indiana University. Dave Johnson: And I'm Dave Johnson, a medical oncologist at the University of Texas Southwestern in Dallas, Texas. If you're a regular listener to our podcast, welcome back. If you're new to Oncology, Etc., the purpose of our podcast is to introduce listeners to interesting people and topics in and outside the world of oncology. Today's guest is someone well-known to the oncology community. Dr. John Glick is undoubtedly one of oncology's most highly respected clinicians, researchers, and mentors. I've always viewed John as the quintessential role model. I will add that for me, he proved to be a role model even before I met him, which hopefully we'll talk about a little bit later.   To attempt to summarize John's career in a paragraph or two is really impossible. Suffice it to say, he is to the University of Pennsylvania Cancer Center what water is to Niagara Falls. You can't have one without the other. After completing his fellowship at NCI in Stanford, John joined the Penn faculty in 1974 as the Ann B. Young Assistant Professor. Some five decades later, he retired as the director of one of the most highly respected comprehensive cancer centers in the nation. Among his many notable accomplishments, I will comment on just a few. He established the Medical Oncology program at Penn and subsequently directed the Abramson Cancer Center from 1985 to 2006. Interestingly, he established the Penn Medicine Academy of Master Clinicians to promote clinical excellence in all subspecialties across the health system. He's been a driving force in philanthropy at Penn Medicine, culminating in his role as Vice President Associate Dean for Resource Development.  Over the past several decades, he has helped raise over half a billion dollars for Penn Med. We need you on our team, John. As a clinician scholar, John's research has helped shape standards of care for both breast cancer and lymphomas. For example, he pioneered the integration of adjuvant chemotherapy and definitive breast irradiation for early-stage breast cancer. In 1985, he chaired the pivotal NCI Consensus Conference on adjuvant chemotherapy for breast cancer. He also was a driving force in a clinical landmark study published in The New England Journal some 20 or so years ago about the role of bone marrow transplant for advanced breast cancer. Most impressive of all, in my opinion, is John's legacy as a mentor to multiple generations of medical students, residents, and fellows.   So, John, we want to thank you for joining us and welcome. Thought we might start by having you tell us a little about your early life, your family, your parents, where you grew up, and how you got into medicine. Dr. John Glick: Well, thank you for having me on the podcast, Pat and David, it's always a pleasure to be with you and with ASCO. I grew up in New York City in Manhattan. My father was a well-known dermatologist. He was my role model. And from the age of eight, I knew I wanted to be a doctor. Nothing else ever crossed my mind. But having seen my father's many interests outside of medicine, I realized from very early that there was much more to medicine than just science. And that really induced me, when I went to college, to major in the humanities, in history, art history, and I actually took the minimum number of science courses to get into medical school. That probably wouldn't work today, but it was the start of my interest in humanism, humanities, and dealing with people outside of the quantitative sciences.  Dave Johnson: So that's reflected in how we all view you, John. You're one of the most humanistic physicians that I know personally. I wonder if you could tell us about your interest in medical oncology, and in particular, as one of the pioneers in the field. I mean, there wasn't really even a specialty of medical oncology until the early 1970s. So, how in the world did you get interested in oncology and what drew you to that specialty? Dr. John Glick: Well, I had two clinical experiences that drove me into oncology. The first, when I was a third year medical student at Columbia PNS, my first clinical rotation in internal medicine, I was assigned a 20-year-old who had acute leukemia, except he was not told his diagnosis. He was told he had aplastic anemia, receiving blood and platelets, and some form of chemotherapy. And I spent a lot of time just talking to him as an individual, not just taking care of him. And we became friends. And he was then discharged, only to be readmitted about two weeks later. And in the elevator, the medical assistant had his admission sheet, and unfortunately, it was facing the patient, and it had his diagnosis, acute leukemia. So he came into the ward and he confronted me. "Why didn't you tell me I had acute leukemia?" Well, I couldn't say the attendees forbade me to do that. So I took what today we would call ‘the hit', and apologized. But it stimulated me to reflect that honesty with patients was extremely important, and that oncology was just in its infancy. We knew nothing about it. It was not considered even a specialty. I don't think we used the word "oncology."  But that inspired me to take an elective in my fourth year at PNS, at an indigent cancer hospital called the Francis Delafield Hospital. It only took care of indigent cancer patients, and there were wards, twelve patients in a ward, six on each side, and nobody would go see the patients. It was almost as if they were afraid that if they were to touch the patient, they would get cancer. And I started talking to the patients, and they were human beings, but nobody had told them their diagnosis. Nobody had told them if they were terminal. And there were a few patients who were getting a new drug at that time for multiple myeloma called melphalan, and they actually had relief of some of the symptoms, of their bone pain. But I realized that there was a huge void in medicine that I could possibly help to fill.  And that was the era of Vietnam, and so I applied to the National Cancer Institute to become a commissioned officer in the Public Health Service to avoid the draft, to be on a service with, at that time, some very notable oncologists Vince DeVita, Ed Henderson, Paul Carbone. I had read some of their papers, and I was lucky to be accepted. And I was a clinical associate at the National Cancer Institute. And that was life-changing because there every patient was considered to be potentially curable. The advances at that time using MOPP for Hodgkin's disease, C-MOPP for lymphoma, some treatments for leukemia. George Canellos pioneered the use of CMF for metastatic breast cancer. It was an amazing, amazing experience. That was in 1971 to ‘73. Oncology did not become a true specialty till ‘73, but my two years at NCI were formative.  However, I realized that there was something missing in my training. Everybody was considered curable, but I had never seen a patient with metastatic colon cancer, metastatic lung cancer. The radiotherapists there did not like to teach clinical associates, and I knew that there was a place called Stanford. And Stanford had Saul Rosenberg in medical oncology for lymphomas and Henry Kaplan in radiotherapy. So, everybody was going to California, and my wife and I packed up and went to California and spent a year at Stanford, which, combined with my training at the NCI, led me to the principles that guided my career in oncology; humanity, optimism, reality, compassion, and a love for clinical trials.  I was very, very fortunate to be there at the dawn of medical oncology shortly after I decided to go to Penn, which at that time did not have a medical oncologist. In fact, I was the only medical oncologist at Penn for four years and did every consult in the hospital for four years, much to the chagrin of my wife. But I was fortunate to have great mentors in my career: Paul Carbone, Vince DeVita, Saul Rosenberg, Henry Kaplan, among many, many others. And that impressed me about the importance of mentorship because my career would never have been where it was or is without these mentors. Pat Loehrer: John, just to echo what Dave said, you've been such a tremendous mentor for us. Dave and I particularly, you took us under your wings when you didn't know who we were. We were people in the Midwest. We weren't from any place shiny, but we really appreciate that. Dave Johnson: So, John, I mentioned at the very beginning that I met you before I met you, and the way I met you was through Stewart Alsop's book, Stay of Execution. He portrayed you as an extraordinarily caring individual, and it tremendously impacted me. It was one of the reasons why I chose oncology as a specialty. I realize it's been 50 or more years ago and most of our listeners will have no idea who Stewart Alsop was. And I wonder if you might share with us a little bit of that experience interacting with someone who was particularly well-known in that time as a columnist for The New York Times.  Dr. John Glick: His brother Joe Alsop and Stu Alsop were two of the most famous columnists at that time. Joe Alsop was a hawk right-winger who lived in the Vietnam War. Stewart was charming, was a centrist Democrat, wrote the back page for Newsweek for years. He and I had very similar educational backgrounds and interests. And we functioned on two different levels—one as a physician-patient, and then we became friends. And he and his wife adopted us into the Georgetown set.  And I received a lot of criticism for socializing with a patient. But over the years, I've been able to become friends with many of my patients, and I've been able to compartmentalize their medical care from our friendship. And I use the analogy if I was a doctor in a small town and I was the only doctor,  I'd be friends with people in town, with the pastor and likely the mayor. But I have always believed that patients can become your friends if they want it and if they initiated it.   Taking care of Stewart Alsop was an amazing, amazing experience. We didn't know what he had. People initially thought he had acute leukemia. In reality, he had myelodysplastic syndrome, but that hadn't been described yet. He had a spontaneous remission, which I rarely see, probably due to interferon released from a febrile episode, all his blasts went away in his marrow. One of my children's middle name is Stewart. But professionally and personally, it was an incredible experience. It taught me the importance of being available to patients. They had my home phone number. We didn't have cell phone numbers in those days. We had beepers, but they didn't work. And from that point on, I gave my home phone number to patients, and I actually trained my children how to answer the phone. “This is Katie Glick. How can I help you? My father's not home. You need my father? Can I have your phone number? I'll find him and he'll call you back.” Patients still remember my children and their way of answering the phone. Pat Loehrer: One of the things you did do is create this medical oncology program at Penn, which has graduated some incredible fellows that have become outstanding leaders in our field. But can you reflect a little bit about the process of creating something that was never created before, like a medical oncology program? Dr. John Glick: Well, I came to Penn, my first day. Person who recruited me was on sabbatical. I asked where my office was and there was no office. There was an exam room. There was a clinic for indigent patients which we scrubbed by hand. There was another office for patients who paid. Within two months, I had abolished that. We had one– I hate to use the word clinic, people still use the word clinic today, but one office that took care of all patients, irregardless of means.   I saw every oncology consult in the hospital for four years. But I had a mentor, not only Buz Cooper, but fortunately, Jonathan Rhoads was Chairman of Surgery, and he was also Chairman of the President's Cancer panel. And what he said at Penn in surgery became the law. And then when we introduced lumpectomy for breast cancer and radiotherapy, he endorsed it immediately. All the other surgeons followed suit. I don't think there's any hospital in the country that adopted lumpectomy and radiotherapy for breast cancer as quickly. And the surgeons were instrumental in my career.  Now, I was taking care of gliomas, head and neck cancers, and it was difficult. If I had a colorectal patient, I'd call Charles Moertel at Mayo Clinic and say, “What do I do?” I was there when Larry Einhorn in 1975 presented his data on testicular cancer with the platinum. Unbelievably inspiring, transformational. It also showed the importance of single-arm studies. You didn't have to do randomized studies because the results were so outstanding. And so in my career, I did both single-arm studies, proof of principle studies, and then many randomized trials through the cooperative groups.  But the first four years were very difficult. I didn't know what the word ‘work-life balance' meant in those days. If somebody was sick, I stayed and saw them. It was difficult introducing new principles. When I first mentioned platinum after Larry's presentation, I was laughed out of the room because this was a heavy metal. When patients were dying, they died in the hospital, and I wanted to hang up morphine to assist them. The nurses reported me to the administration. I had to fight to get the vending machines for cigarettes out of the hospital. So there were a lot of victories along the way and a lot of setbacks.  It took me several years to have an oncology unit of six beds, and now I think we have 150 or 160 beds and need more. So it was an interesting and, in retrospective, a wonderful experience, but I didn't know any better. Fortunately, I had a great wife who was working at Penn and then at Medical College of Pennsylvania, and she was incredibly understanding, never complained. And I think my kids knew that on Tuesdays and Thursdays, don't bring up anything difficult with dad because he's had a really tough day in clinic. Dave Johnson: We were not in that era, but we were very close. And many of the struggles that you had were beginning to dissipate by the time we were completing our training. But it was still a challenge. I mean, all those things. I gave my own chemotherapy for the first few years I was in practice. I don't know that our colleagues today who have trained in the last, say, 10 or 15 years, actually realize that that was what we did. Most of the chemo was given in the hospital. It was not uncommon in the early days to have 20, 30, 40 inpatients that you would round on because there just wasn't an outpatient facility. But the corporate mind made a big difference, allowing us to give drugs like platinum in the outpatient arena. You span all of that era, and so you've seen the whole panoply of change that has taken place.  John, the other thing you did that has impressed me, in part because of my time as a Chair of Medicine, is you created this Academy of Master Clinicians. Can you tell us a bit about that and what was the motivation behind that?  Dr. John Glick: Ben had a strategic plan, and one of the pillars was talking about valuing clinical medicine and clinical excellence. But there was no implementation plan. It was sort of just words and left in the air. And I was no longer director of the cancer center, and I realized we had a lot of awards for research, awards for education, and no awards for clinical excellence. So I created the idea of having an academy and master clinician spend six months talking to all constituencies, chairs of various departments, directors of centers to get a buy-in. Wrote a three-page white paper for the dean, who approved it immediately. And then, as typical at Penn, I raised all the money for it. I went to one of my patients who was an executive at Blue Cross. I said I need $500,000 to start this program. And then subsequently, I raised $4 million to endow it. Today, it is the highest honor that a Penn clinician can receive.  You could be on any one of our multiple tracks. You have to see patients at least 60% of the time. You not only have to be a great doctor, you have to be a humanist. So the world's best thoracic surgeon who has a demeanor in the operating room that is not conducive to working with a nurse as a team doesn't get in. We emphasize professionalism, mentorship, citizenship, teaching, national reputation, local reputation, and clinical excellence. And so we've elected over 100 people, maybe 3% of the Penn faculty. We give an honorarium. We have monthly meetings now by Zoom. We have monthly meetings on various topics. We never have a problem getting any dean or CEO to come talk to us.  We were the first to do Penn's professionalism statement. The school subsequently adopted, and it's become the highest honor for a Penn clinician. It's very competitive. It's peer-reviewed. The dean has no influence. And we're very proud that 40% of the members of the academy are women. We have a high percentage of diversity compared to the numbers on our faculty, but you really have to be elected on merit, and some people that you might expected to be members of the academy aren't. It's one of the things I'm proudest of. It will go on in perpetuity because of the money we've raised. I think many of my accomplishments as a researcher will fade, as they typically do, but I'm very proud of the Academy, and I'm very proud of the people that I've mentored. Dave Johnson: It speaks to your values, John, and I think it's one of the reasons why you're so widely admired. Thank you for creating that. It proved to be a model for other institutions. I know that for a fact. One would think that valuing clinical care would be preeminent in medical schools, but in fact, it's often ignored. So again, I know that your colleagues at Penn appreciate your efforts in that regard.  Tell us a little about your term as ASCO president. What are you most proud about and what were your most difficult challenges? Dr. John Glick: Well, the most difficult challenge was that ASCO was in transition. I had to fire the company that ran the meeting. We had to decide that ASCO was going to hire a CEO. We hired John Durant, made a small headquarters, tiny staff, and did a lot of the work as being chief operating officer myself. It was the year that email was just getting started, and ASCO wasn't using it. So every Saturday from 8:00 to 6:00, I came into the office and my secretary wrote letters inviting people to be on the program committee or various committees. But it was a society in transition. The growth of membership was huge. The meeting sites had to be changed. We emphasized science. Some of the things that we did are still in existence today.  We formed the ASCO ACR Clinical Research Methods course. It's still given. That's one of our real highlights. We forged relationships with other societies, the National Coalition for Survivorship. We made the ASCO guidelines much more prominent. And I remember that we were going to publish the first guidelines on genetic testing for breast cancer, and the MCI went up in absolute arms, so I arranged a meeting. I was at the head of the table. On my right were Francis Collins, Richard Klausner, Bob Wittes, and a few other people. Then the ASCO people who wrote the guideline were on the left, and they didn't want us to publish it. They thought it was premature to have a guideline about genetic testing. And what I learned from that meeting is that you can agree to disagree with even the most prominent people in oncology and still maintain those relationships. But we did what's right, and we published a guideline on the JCO. There were so many wonderful things that happened at ASCO that I can hardly restate all that happened I guess 27 years later. It was exciting. ASCO was still young. There was a lot we had to do, and we could do it. You could just go ahead and do it. It was exciting. It was gratifying. It was one of the most fun years of my life. Dave Johnson: I mean, that transition from an outside company in many respects, controlling the premier activity of ASCO, its annual meeting to ASCO, taking that on, that defined ASCO, and that's what I remember most about your time as president. It was a bold move, and the hiring of John Durant was brilliant. I mean, he was such an incredible individual, and it was great that you guys were able to pull that off. Pat Loehrer: Thank you for what you've done.  You've had a number of your mentees if you will, and colleagues that have gone on to prominent positions, including, I think, at least three directors of NCI Cancer Centers. Can you just talk briefly how you would describe your mentoring style because you've been so successful? Dr. John Glick: First, there are two aspects. One is when people come to you, and then when you go to people, you sense they're in need. The key aspect of mentoring is listening. Not talking, listening. Looking for the hidden meanings behind what they're saying, not telling them what to do, presenting options, perhaps giving them clues on how to weigh those options in pros and cons, being available for follow-up. Mentoring is never a one-time exercise. Not criticizing their decisions. You may disagree with their decision, but it's their decision, especially if they've considered it. Being proud of the mentee, being proud of their accomplishments, following them over the years. And when they've gotten in trouble or failed to get the job that they wanted, always be there for them, not just in the good times, but in the times that are difficult for them professionally. I think that's one of the most important things.  Even today, I mentor three or four clinical department chairmen, and people ranging from full professors to newly appointed assistant professors. Now that I'm retired, mentoring is the one activity that I've really retained. It's extraordinarily satisfying, and I'm proud of the people that I've mentored. But it's their accomplishments, and the key aspect of mentoring is never to take credit. Dave Johnson: I'll give you credit for mentoring me, and I appreciate it. You were very instrumental at a very decisive point in my career when the old Southeast Cancer Group disbanded, and we were looking for a new cooperative group home. And you were instrumental in helping my institution come into the ECOG fold, and not just as a very junior member, but really as a player. And I'll never forget that, and we'll always appreciate that very much. Pat Loehrer: Ditto on my side, too. Dave Johnson: John, you mentioned that you're retired. What do you like to do in your "free time” if you're not mentoring? Dr. John Glick: Life is good. My daughter says I have a disease, O-L-D. My grandson says, “He's not old; he's almost 80. Look how well he's done.” “Here's $20.” I'm having fun. We are fortunate to have homes in different places. We spend the summer up in the Thousand Islands on the St. Lawrence River, spring and fall down in Charleston, then lots of time in Philadelphia. We travel. I play golf poorly. I'm getting a chance to read history again, go back to one of my great loves. I'm with my children and grandchildren more. I lost my first wife. I've been remarried for about twelve years, and I'm enjoying every moment of that. I'm not bored, but I do wake up in the morning with no anxiety, no realization that I have to herd sheep or herd cats. I have no metrics, I have no RVUs,  not behind of the EMR.  Dave Johnson: You're making it sound too good, John.  Dr. John Glick: We're having fun. And I have not been bored. I've not been down in the dumps. Each day brings a different aspect. We see a lot more of our friends. I exercise. I deal with the health problems that people get when they get older, and I have plenty of those. Seeing doctors takes a lot of time, but I'm grateful that I'm having these few years of retirement. I'm one of the people who is most fortunate to have attained everything they wanted to do in their professional life, and now I'm trying to do some of the same in my personal life. Dave Johnson: John, Pat and I both love to read. We love history. You mentioned that you're reading some history. Is there a book that you've read recently that you might recommend to us? Dr. John Glick: “the Last of the Breed” {With the Old Breed} It's about a private in the Pacific campaign who was not a commissioned officer; it's just a grunt on the ground. It brings the horrors of the Pacific island campaigns to life. But there's a huge number of books, some historical fiction. I'm a great fan of Bernard Cornwell, who's written about the Medieval times, Azincourt, 1356. I'll read two or three books a week. I'm devoted to my Kindle. Dave Johnson: If you could go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice, what would that advice be?   Dr. John Glick: Try and achieve more of a work-life balance. I didn't have any choice. If I didn't do the consult, it didn't get done. That's not the situation today. But I have a second piece of advice, don't treat medicine as a 9 to 5 job. If a patient is sick, stay with the patient. Give the patient your home or cell phone number. Remember, medicine is not just a profession, but it can be a calling. Too few of our physicians today regard medicine as a calling. And even if you're employed, as most of us are by an academic or other institution, do what's right for the patient, not just what's right for your timesheet or the EMR. Remember that the patient is at the center of all we do and that medicine is a calling for some people, as it was for me. Dave Johnson: Great advice, John. Great advice.  Well, I want to thank Dr. Glick for joining Pat and me. This has been a delight. You're one of our role models and heroes.  I want to thank all of our listeners of Oncology, Etc., which is an ASCO educational podcast where we will talk about oncology medicine and other topics. If you have an idea for a topic or a guest you'd like us to interview, please email us at education@asco.org. To stay up to date with the latest episodes and explore other educational content of ASCO, please visit education.asco.org. Thanks again. Pat, before we go, I've got an important question for you. I've been trying to school you recently, and you've failed miserably. So I'm going to ask you, why is it that McDonald's doesn't serve escargot? Pat Loehrer: I can't do it. I don't know. I give up.  Dave Johnson: It's not fast food. Pat Loehrer: I like that. It's good.  The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.   Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.    

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Yes, that is how Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon describes himself. Skip has served as an internal Medicine physician in the Army rising to the rank of colonel.   Throughout much of his life, Skip has also been a wrestler competitor, and he has been good at the sport.   In 2014 Skip discovered that he was suffering from a deep depression. As he worked through his condition and emerged from it he also wrote his Amazon Bestselling book entitled Wrestling Depression Is Not For Wimps.   I very much enjoyed my interview with Skip Mondragon and I sincerely hope that you will as well and that Skip's conversation and stories will inspire you.   About the Guest: Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon, MD is a transformed tough guy. Since recovering from depression in 2014, he's been on a quest to help ten million men struggling with depression, one man at a time. He's practiced Internal Medicine for over thirty years. Colonel Mondragon is a twenty-six-year Army veteran, spent eighteen months in combat zones, and is a national wrestling champion. Skip's book Wrestling Depression Is Not for Wimps! was published in February 2020 and is the author of Inspired Talks Volume 3, an Amazon International Bestseller. He's spoken on different stages, including at TEDXGrandviewHeights in December 2021. Skip's true claim to fame is his five independent and gainfully employed children, his four amazing grandchildren, and especially his wife Sherry. She's a fellow author and a tough Army wife. Sherry has endured raising teenagers on her own, a variety of moves to new duty stations, and far too many of Skip's idiosyncrasies for forty-one years of marriage.   Skip can be reached at: Email: skipmondragon@transformedtoughguys.com Website: www.transformedtoughguys.com Book: www.amazon.com/author/skipmondragon LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/skip-mondragon-66a-2b436 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SkipWNW/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/SkipWnw   About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is an Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes* Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson  01:21 Good morning or afternoon wherever you happen to be and welcome to unstoppable mindset. Today, our guest is Donald  “Skip” Mondragon. I met Donald not too long ago, actually at podapolooza. And we've talked about that before. It's an event where podcasters would be podcasters. And people who want to be interviewed by podcasters all get together. Sometimes one person has all three at once. But I met Skip. And we talked a little bit and I said would you be interested and willing to come on the podcast? And he said yes. So now he's stuck with us? Because here we are. Skip. How are you?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  01:58 I am doing great. Michael, delighted to be here.   Michael Hingson  02:02 Now where are you located?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  02:04 I am in the Dallas Fort Worth area.   Michael Hingson  02:06 So there you go two hours ahead of where we are and any fires nearby? Hopefully not. No, sir.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  02:14 Thank you, Lord,   Michael Hingson  02:15 right now us the same way. And we're, we're blessed by that. But it is getting hot in both places, isn't   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  02:22 it? Oh, yes, indeed.   Michael Hingson  02:25 Well, tell me a little bit about you, maybe your early life and so on. And you know, we'll kind of go from there.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  02:31 Yes, sir. And the third of eight children born of Hispanic parents, but meager means but born in Denver, Colorado. My father went to the Korean War, and came back a broken man. The man that went to war was not the man that came home. He suffered, I'm convinced with bipolar disorder, PTSD, and he was an alcoholic. And when my dad drank, he was violent. My sister, my eldest sister, Roma tells us that when my dad would come home, we would run and hide, because we didn't know which dad was coming home. The kind, gentle, fun loving dad for the angry mean, violent dad. So this was my early childhood. I actually don't have memories before the age of seven, other than a couple little fleeting memories. So I don't remember a lot of that I get history really from my sister, my older sister,   Michael Hingson  03:33 I help that because he's just blocked it out or something worse.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  03:37 Yes. It's it's gone. Those I just don't have those memories are not accessible. But that was my early childhood. It was chaotic. It was. It was chaotic. It was traumatic. But I came from very loving family. Eight, you know, seven siblings were all close in age. 10 years separate us. We're still close to this day enjoy being together with one another loud, boisterous. Or they're very affectionate. No. My siblings are in Texas. I have a brother in the Baltimore area, Maryland, one in Raleigh, North Carolina. I'm here in Texas. The others are all in Colorado.   Michael Hingson  04:20 So I guess with a number in Colorado, that's the meeting place.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  04:25 Yes, sir. Between my wife and I, my mother is the only living parent. And so we go back home as we call it to his in Colorado. Yes.   Michael Hingson  04:36 Well, there's nothing wrong with that. Indeed. So you grew up? Did you go to college?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  04:45 Yes, sir. tended start my college career at the University of Notre Dame ROTC scholarship, left there, in my fifth semester confused, not quite sure what I was going to do. There's this tug, am I going to go into ministry or says medicine I was pre med at the time I left school I was out of school for three plus three and a half years trying to decide what I was going to do. And then I transferred into all Roberts University where I finished my undergraduate work for Roshan first in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And their I went to medical school and it's there for you that I met my sweetheart sherry. And this year we celebrated our 41st wedding anniversary,   Michael Hingson  05:30 Pierre just ahead of us by a year and a half, I guess because we will, our 40s will be in November. No congratulation, which is great. Now, we knew the marriage was gonna last I'm, I'm gonna get shot for this, I'm sure but we knew our marriage was gonna last because the wedding was supposed to start at four in the afternoon on Saturday, the 27th of November of 90. Yes, and the church was not filled up like it was supposed to be at four o'clock. And it got to be an I remember it well for 12 Suddenly, the doors opened and this whole crowd of people came in. And so we started although it was 14 or 12 minutes late, or 15 by the time they got in chair. And it wasn't until later that we learned that everyone was out in their cars until the end of the USC Notre Dame game. Being here in California, my wife getting her master's from USC, oh my gosh, we knew the marriage was gonna last when we learned that not what USC want the snot out of Notre Dame that   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  06:45 we took some weapons from USC, I'll be it you back. I was at Notre Dame that year that we we beat them and went on to win the national championship and 73. So that that was a turn of events, if you will, after taking some real whippings the years preceding that from USC.   Michael Hingson  07:07 I you know, I gain an appreciation for football and all seriousness. When it was a couple of years later, I was in Los Angeles and I had a meeting. And somebody was listening on the radio and keeping us apprised the fact that at the end of the first half Notre Dame was leading USC 24 to nothing. And then I got in the car and we started going home. And USC started scoring and scoring. It was with Anthony Davis and man who know about that game, and by the time it was over was 55 Switch 24 USC. But it's a great rivalry. And I'm glad it exists.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  07:50 Right. I think the next year is when they came to South Bend. And they hug hug him in effigy. So I remember they had this thing there. And it's   Michael Hingson  08:00 like the USC, USC, don't let him run against us like that again.   Michael Hingson  08:09 What makes it fun? And as long as it's a game like that, and people view it that way. It's great.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  08:16 There you go. It's a game. That's all it needs to be. Don't   Michael Hingson  08:19 take it too seriously by any means. No, sir. But it's a lot of fun. So, after Oral Roberts and so on you you went off and had some adventures?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  08:32 Yes, sir. What kind of happen next? Well, I went to do further training, internship and residency and Canton, Ohio. And there was a turn of events I had expected I was going to do a military internship and go on and complete my residency with the military. But I received this Dear John letter, approximately six weeks before the interview season was going to close the army telling me I did not receive an army internship and I had to pursue a civilian internship, I think and are you kidding me? I was supposed to be in the Army next year, I hadn't even looked at civilian internships. And so I was scrambling. This was a day maybe days before the internet. You had to go to the library, look up programs, phone numbers, call them find out what they needed. So you could apply to that program what documents they needed send to each program individually, the documents the letters, arrange a flight. Now they have a centralized application system. So you complete one application, your letters of reference are all uploaded there. Then you decide which programs you want the sent to wait. So I'm doing this video post taste. Making this application season is ending Christmas is going to be approaching and then there's nothing going to get done. So I gotta get this done. And it was it was hectic ended up in Canton, Ohio. And it was fabulous. I had the best of both worlds great academics, fabulous clinical teaching. And it just so happened. The new program director was retired brigadier general Andre J. Augmentee. And he scared the snot out of us.   Michael Hingson  10:22 What year was this? What year did this take place?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  10:26 I arrived there in 1985. Got it.   Michael Hingson  10:29 So he scared the snot out of you. Oh   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  10:31 my gosh, we call them Dr. Rowe, the big O or the Oh. And when he was when he was coming, we were like, Oh, no deals coming Fall, we'd be at Morning Report, we'd be talking about new cases that were admitted the night before. And he'd asked me to present the case or ask questions. And I would feel like I I felt like the voices on Charlie Brown. Go home and I tell my wife, oh, I can't seem to answer one interview. Question intelligently. When he is around, he must think I'm the stupidest intern he has ever seen. I I just get so flustered when he was around. I went down in a few months them because I was planning on doing physical medicine rehabilitation. But I had really fallen in love with internal medicine. Because my first few months were on the general internal medicine wards, and then a month in the internal or the intensive care unit. And I really fell in love with internal medicine, went to them and talk and said Dr. Rowe, I I'd like to talk to you. I am interested in drone medicine. But I don't know that I could be a good internist, I remember him looking at me and say, Skip, you could be a good interest. In fact, you could be a very good internist. And we'd love to keep you in the program. I could write letters that are permanent, so you can stay on the program and train here. That was a turning point for me. You away. He actually became very good friends. My last year, he actually asked me to be the chief president. I didn't accept because we were expecting our third child at that time preparing to move to join the army and I just couldn't put that pressure on my wife at that time. But we're still good friends to this day. Yes, wife. So it went from being that Bumbly Ugg boots, intern to a competent senior resident to friendship as the years went on.   Michael Hingson  12:49 So he figured you out and obviously saw something you and you kind of figured him out a little bit it sounds like oh, yes,   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  12:57 sir. Yes, sir.   Michael Hingson  12:59 Where is he today?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  13:01 He is here in Texas. He is outside of San Antonio. He and his wife Margaret. A little   Michael Hingson  13:06 bit closer than Canton, Ohio.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  13:09 Oh yes sir.   Michael Hingson  13:11 Well, that's great that you guys are still friends and you can see each other that is that is the way it ought to be. In the end, it's it's always great when you can establish a relationship with the teacher. You know, I wrote thunder dog the story of a blind man his guide dog in the triumph of trust at ground zero when I talked in there about Dick herbal Shimer, my geometry teacher. And to this day, we are still friends and chat on the phone on a regular basis.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  13:41 That reminds me of my junior high wrestling coach John Gregerson. We were great friends to this day. And we hadn't seen one another for almost 1015 plus years. I'd seen him at the I think it was the 1992 1994 NCAA Wrestling Championships division one in North Carolina, and hadn't seen him to till 2000. Approximately 2015, something like that, when seen one another, but got in touch with him because he had moved back when he retired from teaching there in Colorado. He moved to Wyoming, then moved back to Colorado, gotten in touch with him said to get in touch with you, John, we met when another talks just just like we hadn't been apart. And I remember upon leaving, talking Adam say, John, I love you. And he looked at me and says, I love you too. And a great man, great relationship. And there's so much affection in my heart and appreciation for that man. The things he taught me.   Michael Hingson  14:56 So wrestling is a part of your life, I   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  14:58 guess. Oh my goodness. It's in my blood.   Michael Hingson  15:03 Well tell me about that a little bit.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  15:05 Please. Oh, yes, I, I was miserable at sports any sport. Growing up, I didn't know how to throw I didn't know how to catch. I don't know how to kick. I didn't know how to run. I failed that tetherball. Okay. So I didn't know the skills, I wasn't taught the skills. So wrestling was the first sport that went out for an eighth grade that I thought after if you practice, I think I can be good at this. And IBM think i think i could be really good at this. That was the first time that I wasn't having to compete against boys that were a lot bigger than I was. Because I was typically the smallest kid in my class. And so I was wrestling in the 85 pound weight class in eighth grade, good lowest weight class. I was having good success. Only eighth grader on the varsity team. I didn't win a match that year. But I learned lots I gained a lot of confidence. The next year come in and the rest of the room. I'm the best wrestler in that wrestling. But I get so worked up before a match. I couldn't sleep a wink all night long. So I'd go into that match utterly exhausted mentally and physically. underperform. However, the summer afterwards, I won my first tournament I entered was a state freestyle wrestling tournament, one of the Olympic styles. When my first match, my second, my third match, win my fourth match. Now I'm wrestling for the championship. And I went after that my coach asked me, you know who this guy was you're wrestling have no idea coach. And he said that guy won this tournament last year. And that further cemented my love for this sport went on. He was a two time district champion in high schools, state runner up and honorable mention All American. So I had a lot of success. Moreso in freestyle wrestling a lot of state tournaments I won many state tournaments placed into Nash national wrestling tournaments as a high schooler and then after. After that, I've wrestled some in college and some in freestyle also. But last time it competed was in 2012 and 2013. In the veterans nationals.   Michael Hingson  17:33 How did that go?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  17:35 Oh, how did that go? It went great. I had been wanting to compete again. At ba I still had that bug. Oh, I'd like to do this. The dates the training. I couldn't work that in. But I'm sitting up in the stands watching the state finals of the of the Georgia state finals with my youngest son Joey, he had completed his wrestling career had he not been ill and injured. He would have been wrestling on that stage that night. He was one of the best hunter and 12 pounders in the state of Georgia, but being ill and injured, he wasn't there wrestling that night. So we're watching this I had this wrestling magazine. I think it was USA Wrestling and I'm looking at these dates. Veterans national so it's gonna be held in conjunction with the senior nationals and I'm looking at this. Tucson, Arizona, May 5, and sixth I say Joey, she'll train with me. I'd like to compete. Well, my 18 year old son looks and he goes, Okay, Dad, you're gonna have to do everything I tell you. So Joey became my training partner, my trainer and my manager retrained hard, very hard. So this was mid February. And at first week in May, we're going out to Tucson. Those first six weeks and I was in great shape. I mean, I trained worked out like a fanatic, but those first few weeks, you know, oh my gosh, you know, I'd come home from practice. Oh, my wife and go Have you had enough old man. I think I'm gonna go soak in the tub, honey. I'd sit on the couch with ice on a shoulder or knee or elbow or sometimes all of those week. By week, my body toughen and there was the day I got up. Because I added an early morning workout in addition to my afternoon workouts, bring my weight down help a little bit with the conditioning. And my feet hit the floor. I got out to do my workout. I thought Oh, am I feeling good? I thought Joey, you better bring your A game today because your man is feeling good. So we went out to Tucson won a national championship. And we're sitting there taking this picture with the stop sign of a trophy. Now that I got here, it's big that Joey asked me Dad, was it worth it? All those hot baths, all those ice packs? And I look at him and grin. I say, Yes, it was worth. I had a blast. The next year was a national runner up. So those were the last times I competed, but I've coached I've been around the sport. My sons all wrestled my four sons, my brothers. For my four brothers. They're all younger. They all wrestled my brother in law wrestled my father in law was a college wrestler. Wrestling is in my blood. In fact, my kids call me a wrestling groupie. Because I collect wrestling cards. I get wrestling card sign, I get poster side I mug with all these wrestling greats have friends with World Champions and Olympic champions. That's my blood.   Michael Hingson  20:56 What's the difference between the Olympic style wrestling and I guess other forms like freestyle wrestling, and so on?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  21:02 Okay, so freestyle and Greco Roman are the two Olympic styles. primary difference in those two styles is in Greco Roman, you can't attack the legs. That's the difference in those two. Now, the difference in our style, whether we call school boy or sometimes it's called catches catch can is you also have what we call a a Down and up position that are done differently the way that is in the scoring. To score for instance, a takedown when you take them to the mat, you have to have more control in freestyle is much faster or in in Greco you don't have to show the control, you just have to show the exposure of the back. Plus, you can get a five point move with a high flying exposure, the back or if you take a patient or a an opponent from feet to back in freestyle Aggreko, you can get four points for I said, if it's high flying five points, potentially. Whereas in freestyle, our in our style Americans out, it's two points for a takedown doesn't matter. Take them straight to the back, you could get additional points by exposing the back, if you help hold them there long enough, we'll call a nearfall. And then there's writing time. So if you're on the top position, and you control that man for a minute or longer, you're getting writing time. So there's those factors that that you have. So it's it's and the rules are, are somewhat different. So those are the basic differences in our style and the freedom and the Olympic styles.   Michael Hingson  22:41 But wrestling scoring is pretty much then absolutely objective. It's not subjective. It's not an opinion sort of thing. There are specifics,   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  22:51 there are specifics, but then you get into those subjective things. Yeah, it's a caution. It's a stall. It's it's this and you're saying, Are you kidding me? Or they say that's not a takedown you're going What? What do you mean, that's not a takedown? You gotta be blind not to call that thing. So there's still some subjectivity to it. Sure. There is, you know, are they miss? They miss something, the ref misses something in your thing. And you got to be blind dude, you know, that was   Michael Hingson  23:17 a tape. That's an answer. No, no, no. No, here's, here's my question. Is there ever been a time that both wrestlers go after the riff? You know, just check in?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  23:29 I have never seen I have seen some, some, some come off there and give up. You know, escaping something. Yeah, you do to me, your GP and we have to say though, never leave it in the hands of the ref. Never leave it in the hands of the ref. And you you don't want to leave a match in the hands of the ref that don't let it come down to that. Wrestle your match. So there's no question.   Michael Hingson  23:55 Well, so you have wrestled a lot. You went from Canton then I guess you joined the army.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  24:02 Correct? joined the army. Uh huh.   Michael Hingson  24:05 Well, if you would tell me a little bit about about that and what you did and so on.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  24:10 1989 Our first duty station, Lawton, Oklahoma Fort Sill out there on this dreary day, January 3, I believe is gray, dark, you know, overcast, cold, only new to people. My sponsor and his wife. They were the only people we knew when we arrived. I had gone earlier to rent a home for us. And then we were waiting. We our household goods were arriving. Got there. We had three young children. Adam was for Christmas too. And Anjali was four months old. We get there we're moving in. getting settled. I'm in processing to the arm mean, everything's new to us. And then I start practicing as a doctor had two colleagues and internal medicine, within six months of me joining the army or if you will come in on active duty, I shouldn't say joining I had already been on inactive status in the army, going through school and training, but getting their report sale, they turn around and say, well, you're one colleague, like Keith conkel, was named. He's going to do a fellowship, infectious disease. And then my other colleague, Lee selfmade, or senior colleague in internal medicine was chief of the clinic chief of the ICU, he decided very abruptly to get out and do a nephrology fellowship, civilian fellowship, so he was getting out of the army. Now they say, well, you're now the chief of the internal medicine clinic, you're the medical officer, the chief of the intensive care unit. And guess what? You're the only internal medicine physician we're going to have for the summer. Have a good summer. Well, it was worse summer I've ever had in my life. Miserable Oh, it was horrible.   Michael Hingson  26:20 So I was so   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  26:21 busy there with with patients and care and responsibilities there and having to tell some patients I'm sorry, we don't have capacity for you're going to have to be seen in the civilian sector. Now, mind you, when my two new colleagues came, we had all these patients screaming back saying please, please, please, may I come back, because they knew the care we rendered was superior to what they were getting the care they were receiving in the civilian sector. But it was it was such a demanding physically and emotionally and timewise. spending enormous amounts of time at the clinic and hospital.   Michael Hingson  27:06 So what does Internal Medicine take in   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  27:09 internal medicine, we are specialists for adults, you think of the gamut of non surgical diseases. We take care of adults 18 to end of life. And so our training entails taking care of the common cold, a community acquired pneumonia, that you can treat as an outpatient, to taking care of a patient that's in the ICU, hooked up to life support. That's the scope of what we're trained in. So if you think of the common diseases of adults, high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease, lung disease, arthritis, gastrointestinal problems, this is the Bailiwick of an internal medicine physician.   Michael Hingson  27:59 Our biggest exposure to that for Well, first of all, my sister in law was a critical care unit and ICU nurse for a lot of her life. And, and then retired. But anyway, in 2014, my wife contracted double pneumonia, and ARDS, ARDS, oh my gosh. And she ended up in the hospital on a ventilator. And what they were trying to constantly do is to force air into her lungs to try to push out some of the pneumonia. They actually had to use and you'll appreciate this, a peeps level of 39 just to get air into her lungs. They were so stiff. Yeah, they were so stiff. And no one at the hospital had ever seen any situation where they had to use so much air pressure to get air into her lungs to start to move things around and get rid of the pneumonia. Everyone came from around the hospital just to see the gauges.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  29:02 And your they probably told you this risks injuring her lungs because the pressures are so high. But without the weather, we're not going to be able to oxygenate her.   Michael Hingson  29:15 Right. And what they said basically was that if she didn't have pneumonia, her lungs would have exploded with that kind of pressure. Exactly. Because what the average individual when you're inhaling is a peeps level of like between two and five. So 39 was incredibly high.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  29:33 Oh, yes, absolutely. But she's glad she recovered.   Michael Hingson  29:37 She did. We're we're glad about that. She was in the hospital for a month and and she was in an induced coma using propofol and when my gosh when she came out of all that I asked her she dreamed about seeing thriller and bad and all that. I was mean. But but no she ordeal, wow. Well, and that's what eventually caused us to move down here to Southern California to be closer to relatives. But I really appreciated what the doctors did for her. And we're, we're very grateful and fully understand a lot of what goes on with internal medicine and she has a good doctor now that we work with, well, who I both work with, and so on. You're very pleased with that. But you say you're in charge of Internal Medicine. And how long did that last at your first station,   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  30:39 first duty station, we arrived in 89. We were there till 92 till summer of 92. So arrived in January 89. I graduated off cycle. And Canton, arrived in, left in summer of 92 went to Walter Reed Army Medical Center. But while I was at Fort Sill was first time I deployed to Operation Desert Shield Desert Storm, my first deployment and it was found out just days, like the week before, that my wife was expecting our fourth child or son Jonathan got home in time, for 11 days before his birth. Thank you, Lord. But that was my first deployment. And that was harrowing in that we were the first major medical group in theater, 47 filled hospital. And we knew that Saddam had chemical weapons, and that is Scud missiles could reach where we were at in Bahrain. So it was it was some harrowing times with that, getting our hospital set up. And knowing that we were well within range of Scud missiles, the alarms that go off and we'd be throwing on our protective gear we call our MOPP gear, our masks and our other other protective gear and these outrageous high temperatures. You know, within a couple of minutes, you were just drenched with sweat pouring off of you. In those those heat in that heat until you'd hear their alarms go off again and all clear. Thankfully, we never were bombed with the Scud. But we were well within the range. And we knew we had used chemical weapons, and we knew they certainly were in this arsenal. So we that was my first deployment. And then Walter Reed where I did a fellowship two years there in Washington, DC, and then we are off to Brooke Army Medical Center. And that was San Antonio, one of my favorite cities, that Fort Sam Houston. And we we were there for four years. And on the heels of that, I was deployed to Haiti for seven months, the last months that we live there, so I've gone I'm just redeploying returning home. And we're in the process of moving. Now we're moving to Fort Hood, Texas. There we spent, actually eight years at Fort Bragg. And there I was, again, chief of the Department of Medicine at Fort Hood, had amazing staff, great people that I worked with wonderful patients everywhere I went this wonderful patients to take care of. And then I was deployed during that time to Operation Iraqi Freedom was, Oh, if one Operation Iraqi Freedom one 2003 2004, stationed up in Missoula, treating caring primarily for the 100 and first Airborne Division aerosols. Major General David Petraeus was a division commander at that time, I got to work closely. My last few months, I was the officer in charge of the hospital, 21st combat support hospital and got to work closely interact with John Petraeus and his staff. Amazing man, amazing staff. incredible experience. Then from there after fort Fort Hood, we went back to Fort Sill, which was an interesting experience because then I was the deputy commander of Clinical Services, the Chief Medical Officer of the hospital. So first time I was there, I was a newly minted captain, new to the army, you know, expect you to know much about the army. Now I go to back to Fort Sill, I'm in the command suite on the Chief Medical Officer of the hospital now as a colonel, they expect you to know air everything. So it was it was interesting. Now, one of the first few days I was there, they give me a tour around to various places and the record group and we're talking and the the records lady, one of the ladies talking to us, telling us about different things and that she She says, You remind me of you remind me of Dr. Longer God, Dr. Monder. God, she had been there the first time I had been there, because we'd have to go down and review our charts and sign our charts on a regular basis. It was, it was amazing. But just some great people that I got to work with over the years, and that our last duty station was in Augusta, Georgia, at the Eisenhower Army Medical Center, where I was again, Chief of Department of Medicine, worked with great people helped train some amazing residents and medical students, PA students.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  35:39 Just some great experiences. And while I was at Eisenhower Army Medical Center, I deployed for the last time to Iraq for another year 2010 to 2011.   Michael Hingson  35:50 How did all of the deployments and I guess you're 26 years in the military in general, but especially your deployments? How did all of that affect you in your life in your family,   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  36:02 it gives you a much greater appreciation. Well, a few ways. Certainly a much bigger appreciation for your your family and your time with your family, I lost over three and a half years, 37 months out of the life of my family. And you don't get that time back. No, you don't get that back. So all major these major events that go on your life, seeing things with your children happening. There are no do overs with that that's time last. So you get a better appreciation for that, you also get a better appreciation for the freedoms, the opportunities we have in this nation, when you go to some of those countries realize, you see what poverty can be like, you see how certain citizens are treated, you see women who are treated like cattle, in some cases like property, that the lack of rights, you see these people who want to be able to vote, that it's not just a rigged election, but they actually have a say, in their country's democratic process. The appreciation, and one of the things that was so poignant to Michael was the fact that these so many people, every place I've been whether that's on a mission trip to Guatemala, whether that's in Iraq, whether that was in Bahrain and other places that have been there, how many people would come and say My dream is to go to the US and become a US citizen, I heard that over and over and over again. And when I would get back home, I would feel like kissing the ground. Because I realized, by virtue of being born American, the privileges, the opportunities that I have, are so different than so many people around the world. So gave me appreciation for that. But being deployed, you get to see Army Medicine, practiced in the in the field, because Army Medicine is world class medicine, but you get to see it in the field practice again, in a world class way. It's, it's really mind boggling. Some of the things that we do in a field setting in a combat zone, taking care of soldiers, taking care of other service members, the things that we do, literally world class, not just back in brick and mortar facilities. But they're in the field. Unbelievable. And again, working with great colleagues, amazing staff that I had there, the 21st cache and other places that I've worked. So that appreciation and that idea that you're working for a cause so much greater than yourself, that brotherhood that you have. Now, when you've deployed with people and you've been in combat zone with people, let me tell you, you build some strong bonds.   Michael Hingson  39:15 And it's all about really putting into practice what most of us really can only think about is theory because unless we've been subjected to it and need medical help, or have been involved in the situations like you, it's it's not the same. We're not connected to it. And it's so important, it seems to me to help people understand that connection and the values that you're exactly what you're talking about.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  39:46 Yes, yes. You were asking about the impact on my family. Well think about that. My first time employee My wife has three young children. Adam was six Chris was four. Anjali It was too, and she's expecting our fourth. We're deploying to this war zone that's very uncertain knowing he's got Scud missiles, he's got chemical weapon arsenal, that he's used this. And you're going into this very uncertain war zone. Not knowing when you're coming back home, or even if you're coming back home, all of this uncertainty. The night they announced that, okay, the war had started, that that officially had kicked, kicked off there, that hostilities it started, it was announced on TV. And the kids were at a swimming lesson at the pool, I believe. And somebody came running through some young soldier or something,   Michael Hingson  40:59 the war started, the   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  41:00 war has started. And the children all started bawling. And so Sherry's trying to gather them up and she's thinking, What are you doing, you know, trying to gather up the the kids and get them home. But she didn't allow them to listen to any reports do anything. Thankfully, we didn't have a TV at that time by choice. We didn't have a TV for many years. But she didn't allow him to listen to any reports, because she didn't want them to hear these things. But you can think about the uncertainty, you think about missing the events, you think about a spouse having to manage everything at home, taking care of the family, taking care of all the other things there that are involved in managing a household. That's what's left with that, that spouse and then them carrying on without you. So adjusting without you. And then as those children are a different ages, again, all of that, your spouse taking care of that. And your family, adjusting without you. Now if people don't realize they see these idyllic, idyllic reunions, oh, it's great look at they're coming home, and they're hugging and kissing and crying and looking at how wonderful that is. Well, yes, it is wonderful. It's magnificent. You can't believe the elation and the relief. But there's a short little honeymoon phase, if you will. But then the real work begins reintegrating into your family, finding that new normal, how do I fit back into this, they've done with it. They've been without me for several months, or even up to a year. My kids have changed. I've changed Sherry's changed, our family has changed. So how now do we find that normal? And I think that's what a lot of people don't understand that there is that work that needs to be done. And there's a lot of work that needs to be done after it. service members returned home from a deployment, that it's not easy. And it takes its toll. And I don't think that people realize the sacrifice when service members been gone. for months and months at a time years at a time, the sacrifice of that service member the sacrifice of their fam, with every promotion, every award that I received, I used to tell people, my wife, and my kids deserve this a lot more than I do.   Michael Hingson  43:50 And another thing that comes to mind in thinking about this back in the time of Desert Storm, and so on and maybe up into Iraqi Freedom, I would think actually is how were you able to communicate with home.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  44:07 Oh, with your family. And in Desert Storm is primarily snail mail. We did have the occasional call that we can make. Now, as the theater matured and they moved us out of living in tents. We got to move into hardened structure in there. I could make a regular phone call when we got to if there we could, I could send e mail and that became snail mail. And e mail were the primary ways that we connected. The last time I was in Iraq 2010 and 2011. Again, it was email but I could also I had a car that I could charge minutes to that I can Make through an international calling system that I can also place telephone calls. But the primary way became again, snail mail and email to communicate with my family. Today, is   Michael Hingson  45:13 there additional kinds of ways of communicating like zoom or Skype? Yeah.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  45:18 Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Now you're right. They can do face to face zoom. FaceTime there they have, they have their cell phone. So if they're not restricted from using their cell phones, and can even get the international plan and call, we weren't able to do those kinds of things. Yeah. There. Now we did have one thing when I was in Haiti, where it could go into a room. And you could do a as via satellite, it was on a monitor that I could speak to, and they were in this special room there that it was big monitor. But it was a very limited time. And that when that time ended, boom, the screen would just freeze. And the first time it ended like that the kids action starts, started crying because I'm in mid sentence saying something, and I freeze on the screen. And the kids didn't understand what was going on. Yeah. And they was so abrupt that Sherry told me later, can start crying when that happened,   Michael Hingson  46:25 cuz they didn't know they didn't know whether suddenly a bomb dropped or what?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  46:29 Right, right. Yes. It's shocking to them.   Michael Hingson  46:33 Well, all of this obviously takes a toll on anyone who's subjected to it or who gets to do it. And I guess the other side of it is it's an honorable and a wonderful thing to be able to go off and serve people and, and help make the world a better place. But it eventually led to a depression for you, right?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  46:55 Yes, yes. I ended up with major depression. And it culminated on April 17 2014, where I was curled up in a fetal position under the desk in my office. They're laying on that musty carpet. I had gone to work as I normally did, like, get to my office that day early, as was my custom. Nobody else on the whole floor. I locked my office turned on the lights, step inside. And everything just came crashing down on me. I was beat up, beaten down and broken. Should behind me lock the door, turned off the lights, close the blinds. And I crawled under that desk. And then for four hours. I'm asking myself skip, what are you doing? Skip? Why are you here? What happened? You're a tough guy. You're a colonel. You've been in combat zones for over 18 months. Your National Wrestling Champion, you're a tough guy. What happened? Then very slowly, looking at that, and scenes and memories colliding, looking at things, promise, difficulties, and I began to put the pieces together. And finally began to understand the symptoms I was having the past nine months, insomnia, impaired cognition is progressively moving these negative thoughts it just pounded the day and night. You're a fake. You don't deserve to be a colonel, you let your family down. You left the army down, who's gonna want a higher loss of confidence in decision, loss of passion and things that I normally have no interest in resting. Joy, no joy in my life. It's like walking through life in black and white. My body old injuries. Overuse injuries, the osteoarthritis body just a make it even worse. My libido my sex drive was in the toilet. Now you talk about kicking the guy when he's down. And I finally began was able to put those pieces together after four hours. Now I was finally able to understand, said scale. You're depressed? Go get help. And I crawled out from under that desk with a flicker of hope. And later that afternoon, I've seen a clinical psychologist to confirm the diagnosis of major depression.   Michael Hingson  49:25 How come it took so long for you to get to that point? Do you think   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  49:30 it was my tough guy mentality? This idea that you just keep pushing through that tough guy identity is like a double edged sword. That tough guys just keep pushing through. There was a lot of things colonel, combat that physician wrestler. So I took on this tough guy persona. And we even have a term for it in wrestling. We call it gutting it out. No matter how hard your lungs and what your lungs burn how much your muscles say, no matter how hard this is, you're just going to keep pushing and pushing. So that was my, that was my modus operandi. That's what I how I operated in my life. You just keep pushing hard and hard and pushing through these difficulties. With it, I couldn't see step back far enough to see what was going on. I knew it felt horrible. I couldn't sleep. I felt badly. I didn't want to be around people. I was withdrawn. But I couldn't step back even as a physician, and put these together to say, Oh, I'm depressed. It's just Oh, keep pushing. And the harder I push, the worse I got. So it was that blindness from that tough guy identity. That there probably some denial going on perhaps. But even as I look back retrospectively, that tough guy mentality just didn't help me. Allow me to see that until it got so crucial where I was just totally depleted. Ended up under that desk.   Michael Hingson  51:11 So how would you define being a tough guy today, as opposed to what you what you thought back then?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  51:20 Yes, yes. Well, there are two sides to a tough guy, Michael, I see a tough guy. Certainly one aspect of the tough guy as that provider protector, that decisive individual, that decisive man that can do things that need to be done now, and can make those tough decisions, no matter what. That's one aspect of so yeah, but that other aspect to hit balances is. So we think of that one tough guy, you might say that's your impart your rugged, individualistic guy that you see that module, tough guy, that the screen portrays at least aspects of that. But then you see this other aspect of that tough guy, this is the individual that has, can be in touch with his emotions, can understand and able to dig there into that and say, Oh, I'm feeling sad. You know, what, somebody what you just said, really hurt. That's, I'm disappointed with that. I'm able to shed tears open, I'm able to show that tenderness that love very openly, but to balance it between the two sides appropriately. That's what I see as a true tough guy. It's not just the one or the other. It's that blend of both that we need in our lives to make us a tough guy. And if you have only one or the other, you're you're not a tough guy. You only have the tenderness and the warmth, and the gentleness and the ability to share your emotions. Well guess what? You're going to be a tough time you're going to run over people can take advantage of they're not going to be much of a protector for those you need to protect. But if you only have that other side of you. You're very limited. You're not going to be able to function in the full array of what we're meant to function in as men or women. Nor women. Absolutely. It's not just restricted to one sex. Absolutely. You're right, Michael.   Michael Hingson  53:51 So you wrote a book wrestling? Depression is not for tough guys. Right? Not for wimps. Yeah, not for wimps. I'm sorry. Wrestling. Depression is pretty tough guys. Wrestling depression is not for wimps. Tell us about that and how it affected you and your family writing that?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  54:11 Well, that book, the genesis of that book came about about six weeks into my recovery, but still struggling. And throughout the time that I was sinking down deeper and deeper into the depression and the first several weeks in my recovery. My prayers had been lowered lower, please, please deliver me from this darkness. But six weeks into my recovery. My youngest brother Chris calls me he had been at a Bible study with Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham. In Franklin talked about the suffering of Christ. And the gist of what was if Christ suffered so brutally upon that cross why as Western Christians do we think we should be immune from suffering. And over the next two days, the birth that kept coming to my mind was from Philippians. To 13 Paul writes, oh, that I know him, and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings. I knew that verse I knew well, I'd prayed that verse hundreds of times in my walk with Christ, but in the midst of my suffering, I wanted deliverance. But over two days, my prayer shifted from Lord, please, please deliver me, the Lord. What would you have me learn? And how might I use it to serve others. And at that point, I knew I was going to have to share my story. I didn't know how, when but I knew I must share my story. So I began to note what lessons I had learned and what lessons I was learning with the intent of sharing those first time I got to do that was at a officer Professional Development Day, there at the hospital at Eisenhower Medical Center, our session, the morning, our session, the afternoon, and the hospital auditorium. And that became the genesis for my book, I want a writing contest in 2015, your have to retire from the army. And with that came a contract to have my book published. And then it was the process of going through the whole process of writing the book, editing the book, selecting the book, cover, all the things go into book, writing, that book was life transformed. It was transformational to me. And so I learned so many things about myself writing this book.   Michael Hingson  56:41 Did you have fun writing it,   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  56:43 I had fun at times. Other times, it was a grind, almost chickened out at the point where we had everything finished. It was ready to go to the publishers and I was I was I was on the cliffs, so to speak. i The book midwife as we called her, the lady is working with Carrie to read love the love with the lady with the company, their Confucian publishing is now called used to be transformational books. I called her and I said, Carrie, I don't know. I think I need to scrap this whole book. I think I need to start over. I can write a much better book. And she goes, No skip. This book is ready. We need to get it birth, we need to extend it to the publisher. And I'm thinking oh, no, no, no, I, I just can in Nice, I need to rewrite this whole thing. I can do a bunch better. This after working. You know, we've been working on this thing for two and a half years getting this thing ready. And I prayed about I'm talking about and then later I called her back in a day and a half and say, okay, Sherry talked me off the cliff. We're gonna send this book forward. But with that, learn things about yourself, going through that access some memories that I hadn't thought about, and some things, some promise that occurred that affected me in profound ways that I didn't realize how much of an impact that had on my life, and for how long that have an impact on my life. Case in point. I lost the state wrestling championship as a senior in high school by two seconds of writing time. Meaning my opponent, Matt Martinez, from greedy West High School knew Matt. There. He beat me by controlling me when he's on the top position for two seconds. He had two seconds more writing time controlling me on that map that I escaped from him three seconds earlier, you wouldn't have any writing time. And we had gotten into overtime. And I believe I would have beat Matt in overtime because nobody, nobody could match my conditioning. But it didn't get to them. So I really that that match. That was probably 10s of 1000s. But what it did is it it really devastated my confidence. And that carried on into my first couple years of college, the College wrestling. Just a lot of things about me. And what I didn't realize it took three and a half years. No, actually five, five years 73 It was 78 and spring of 78 when I was finally healing from that, regaining my mojo. And I didn't realize that until I was writing this book, that profound impact that loss had and the RIP holes, the effects that went on for those successive years there, the profundity of that. And there were other things that I came to light. So there'd be times I'd be laughing. There'd be times I'd be crying. There'd be times I'd be like, Whoa, wow. So it was an amazing experience.   Michael Hingson  1:00:23 So what are some tips that you would give to anyone dealing with depression today?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  1:00:29 Yep. Thank you for asking that. Michael, first and foremost, men, or anybody if you're struggling, don't struggle. One more day in silence, please, please, please go get help to remember, you're never, never, never alone. Three, keep your head up. And wrestling, we talk about this, keep your head up, instill this in our young wrestlers. Why because if they're on their feet, and they drop their head, and get taken down to the mat, if they're down on the mat, the opponent's on top of them and drop their head, they can turn over and pin. But that's also figurative, and emotional, keep your head up. Keep your head up. And I needed people speaking into my life, like my wife, my family, my friends, my therapist, others speaking into my life, it's a skip, keep your head up. Psalm three, three says the Lord is our glory, and the lifter of our heads. So I tell people, you're never ever, ever alone. third, or fourth, I would say attend to the basics, sleep, healthy nutrition. And some regular activity. Those basics are the basics for good reason. And I call them the big three. And probably the most important of all of those, if you're having dysregulation of your sleep is get your sleep back under control. The last few that I'm sorry, go ahead. And then the last few that I would say is make sure you've got a battle buddy. Make sure you have somebody that you can turn to somebody that you can confide in somebody that, you know, would just listen and walk this journey with you and a prescription. And there's many other things that I talked about in my book, but a prescription that I have left with 1000s and 1000s of patients. I've written this on prescription pads. And I've shared this with patients and I say this medication has no bad side effects. This medication has no drug to drug interactions, and you cannot overdose on this medication. So I want you to take this medication liberally each and every day. Proverbs 1722 says A merry heart doeth good, like a medicine. broken spirit. Drive up the boats. When I was depressed, I had a broken spirit. So lack is good nets. So I say each and every day, laugh and laugh hard to find something that you can laugh about. It's goodness.   Michael Hingson  1:03:40 Oh, whenever I want to laugh, all I have to say is I wanted to be a doctor but I didn't have any patients. See?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  1:03:55 Oh, that's great.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  1:03:59 Well, I tell people, in retrospect, I say, gee, if I had only been my own doctor, I would have diagnosed myself sooner. See, well wait, I am a doctor.   Michael Hingson  1:04:15 Or you know what the doctor said Is he sewed himself up Suit yourself. Yeah. I got that from an old inner sanctum radio show. But anyway. Last thing, because we've been going a while and just to at least mention it. You have been a TD X speaker.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  1:04:33 Yes, sir. I was a TEDx speaker. Indeed.   Michael Hingson  1:04:36 I got it that went well. Oh,   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  1:04:39 it was amazing. Was a TEDx speaker in Vancouver, in December of 2021. My talk is entitled tough guys are an endangered species. And standing up there on the TEDx phase and stage was a common addition of almost nine months of preparation, our mentor, Roger killin tremendous in helping prepare, myself and some colleagues for this, with the help of his sidekick, Dorthea Hendrik, just lovely, lovely people. But to stand on that stage, and deliver my talk, which is about 12 and a half minutes, started off in about six and a half 17 minutes, get cutting down, cutting it down, cutting it down, but stand there and deliver this message directed to tough guys talking about emotions, and the inability that men often have an accessing our emotions because of the way we've been conditioned, the way we've been raised the expectations placed on us. In fact, there's a medical term that was coined, that's masculine, Alexei timea, which means he leaves without words, and how that then sets men up, that I don't, I'm okay, I don't need help. I don't need to share my feelings and we lose contact with our feelings. Men don't seek medical care as often as women in general, much less when they're struggling with mental health issues, that denial, that tough guy, and now they seek it in maladaptive behaviors. I talked about that. But the ultimate behavior becoming suicide,   Michael Hingson  1:06:39 which is why you have given us a new and much better definition of tough guy. Yes, sir. In the end, it is very clear that wrestling depression is not for wimps. So I get it right that time. There you go. Well, I want to thank you for being here with us on unstoppable mindset. Clearly, you have an unstoppable mindset. And I hope people get inspired by it. And inspired by all the things you've had to say if they'd like to reach out to you. How might they do that?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  1:07:14 The easiest way for them to reach out Michael is go to my website. w w w dot transform, tough guys.com W, W W dot transform Tough guys.com. And there, you could send me a message.   Michael Hingson  1:07:35 Send you a message looking at your book. Are you looking at writing any more books?   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  1:07:39 Yes, sir. I am looking to write another book. And still in the making. But I think the next book, maybe wrestling movies is not for wimps.   Michael Hingson  1:07:53 There you go. Well, we want to hear about that when it comes out. And so you have to come back and we can talk more about it.   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  1:07:59 Yes, sir. Well, thank   Michael Hingson  1:08:01 you again, skip for being with us on unstoppable mindset. I appreciate it. I appreciate you. And it's easy to say you inspire me and and all that. But I seriously mean it. I think you've offered a lot of good knowledge and good sound advice that people should listen to. And I hope that all of you out there, appreciate this as well. And that you will reach out to www dot transform, tough guys.com and reach out to skip. Also, of course, we'd love to hear from you feel free to email me at Michaelhi at accessibe.com or go to www dot Michaelhingson.com/podcast or wherever you're listening to us. Please give us a five star rating. We appreciate it. We want to hear what you think about the podcast. If you've got suggestions of people who should be on and skip Same to you if you know of anyone else that we ought to have on the podcast would appreciate your, your help in finding more people and more insights that we all can appreciate. So again, thank you for you for being on the podcast with us   Donald G. “Skip” Mondragon  1:09:08 there. My pleasure, Mike. Thank you.   Michael Hingson  1:09:10 Pleasure is mine.   Michael Hingson  1:09:16 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

In todays podcast Viktor “Enlightq aka Zas” Kudinov walks us through his journey towards poker successer success. He grew up in a hard environment and saw being competitive in sports and games as a way towards a better life. He shares how he uses anger as a competitive driver to put in insane amounts of volume both on the tables and in the lab. This drive also has it's dark sides as he overdid it and ended up burning out. He then had to redevelop his strategy and refound his motivation for the game and is currently playing the highest stakes in online cash-games and in live MTTs

In this episode we switch to what some people call the great game of Pot-limit Omaha. We will have a chat with Gruffudd "d.apollo777" Jones who is known as one of the best HU PLO cash-game players on the internet. Gruffudd shares his road to the highest stakes and how he has always looked to poke at players first to see if they are really that good instead of putting them on a pedestal before having even played them. With this approach he has left many battles as the winner while others as the person who learned a lot preparing him better for future opposition.

In this episode we speak with $100KNL superstar Sergey “MunEZ_StaRR” Nikiforov about his journey to playing the nose bleeds. He shares with us how he was able to keep moving up stakes, the challenges he faced trying to break into $2KNL and why a lot of $100KNL regs are scared money.

Today we hear a Combat Story from a long-time Combat Story listener Christian Holloway, a former Marine who was part of the initial invasion into Iraq, fought in both Fallujah I and II, and was one of the first Marines in what we now know as Marine Special Operations Command or MARSOC. [Support us on Patreon and get exclusive content and insights at www.patreon.com/combatstory] Christian was just 18 years old when he crossed the line of departure into Iraq for the initial invasion alongside M1A1 tanks in his Marine Amphibious Assault Vehicle (AAV).He was then clearing buildings on foot in Fallujah alongside his Marine brothers, was among the first to see the effects of IEDs and what later became a very common and lethal enemy TTP, and was then in the elite special operations community training foreign militaries as a force multiplier. Since leaving the military, Christian continued to train service members in Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape (SERE) as a contractor and now hosts a financial information program on YouTube.This is a great Combat Story that follows the path from the tactical perspective of the Marine infantryman to the strategic MARSOC operator and I hope you enjoy his humble insights as much as I did. Find Christian Online: -YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs1jwxG_W_NAVVX8KlZ-Mig-Instagram @chris.holloway_fi https://www.instagram.com/chris.holloway_fi/ Find Ryan Online: - Ryan's Linktree https://linktr.ee/combatstory- Merch https://www.bonfire.com/store/combatstory/- Instagram @combatstory https://www.instagram.com/combatstory- Facebook @combatstoryofficial https://fb.me/combatstoryofficial- Send us messages at https://m.me/combatstoryofficial- Email ryan@combatstory.com- Learn more about Ryan www.combatstory.com/aboutus- Intro Song: Sport Rock from Audio JungleShow Notes:0:00 - Intro 0:44 - Guest Introduction (Christian Holloway) 1:59 - Interview begins 2:40 - Growing up in Texas 7:31 - Why Marine Corps and recruitment story 10:44 - Training and preparing for deployment only 4 months after after boot camp and school of infantry 17:13 - Preparing for first deployment invading Iraq at only 18 years old 20:48 - MOPP levels and the nuclear, biological and chemical threat 24:53 - Combat Story - Engaged by an artillery unit and the invasion of Iraq33:10 - Combat Story - An armor to armor engagement 55:27 - Combat Story - 48 hour engagement 1:18:01 - almost dying in Baghdad from celebratory fire 1:21:03 -Fallujah 1 fighting the insurgency and the first in incorporation of IED tactics 1:35:52 - Combat Story - a very persistent engagement 1:56:24 - Joining what would later be known as MARSOC and the intense training course 2:24:42 - Transition to contractor 2:27:42 - Refelctions on being in combat at 18 years old2:30:45 - Personal Finance YouTube channel 2:37:19 - What did you carry into combat?2:39:08 - Would you do it again? 2:40:21 - Listener comments and shout outs