Podcasts about acpa

In this inspiring episode of Our Forever Smiles, host Laura Arroyo sits down with Tessa De Goede, the founder of Tess Unlimited, a nonprofit organization providing comprehensive cleft care to children in Guatemala. Tessa shares her incredible journey of how she got into this work, the deep connection she has with the Guatemalan people, and the passion that drives her to serve cleft-affected families. She opens up about the challenges and triumphs of running an organization dedicated to life-changing surgeries and holistic cleft care, as well as the support system that keeps her mission going. From the first moments that led her to cleft advocacy to the countless lives she's impacted, Tessa's dedication shines through in every aspect of her work. Tune in for an uplifting conversation about service, resilience, and the power of making a difference in the cleft community.

We're pleased to welcome Brian to the show this week to talk about his journey that led him to joining ACPA in a professional capacity as well as what he sees as the ways professional organizations are creating relevant opportunities for learning, camaraderie, and authentic connections for higher education staff members all over the world. *You may notice that there was a minor audio issue in the middle of this episode, which required us to swap mics. We appreciate your patience and understanding!

While attending the 2025 ACPA Conference in Long Beach, California, host Glenn DeGuzman invited random attendees to come in front of the camera and answer the following question: "What topic or issue is very important to you now and that you want to engage with more in student affairs?” The myriad of responses is a reminder of the diversity of people, places, and positions that make up our profession.

Dustin chats with Dr. Paul Gordon Brown for this week's episode, an expert in residence life technology and thought leadership, to explore how digital tools are reshaping the residential education experience. As the co-founder of Roompact, Paul shares insights on the evolution of res life tech, why AI is often misused in higher ed, and the importance of thoughtful, intentional technology adoption. They also dive into the broader challenges facing student housing, from balancing service vs. engagement to the risk of residential education becoming a luxury only accessible to the wealthy. If you're interested in how technology can improve student engagement and success, this episode is a must-listen.Guest Name: Dr. Paul Gordon Brown, Director of the Campus Experience, RoompactGuest Social: LinkedInGuest Bio: Dr. Paul Gordon Brown (he/him/his) is a scholar, consultant and speaker specializing in residential curriculum and curricular approaches, student learning and development's intersection with technology, social media and design. Paul has 20 years of professional experience in higher education and student affairs, most recently as the Dean of Students at the Fashion Institute of Technology and as a faculty member in the Higher Education Programs at Boston College and Merrimack College. Paul currently serves as the Director of the Campus Experience for the higher education technology software company, Roompact. Paul was recognized for excellence in research by NASPA and was named a Diamond Honoree by ACPA. An experienced presenter, Paul has accepted and given over 100 presentations at international and regional conferences. He holds a Bachelor of Arts degree in Philosophy from the State University of New York College at Geneseo, a Master of Science degree in College Student Personnel from Western Illinois University, and a PhD in Higher Education from Boston College. Paul served on the Governing Board of ACPA and as a faculty member for the Institute on the Curricular Approach for multiple years. He is a contributing author to numerous books on technology and higher education. - - - -Connect With Our Host:Dustin Ramsdellhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/dustinramsdell/About The Enrollify Podcast Network:The Higher Ed Geek is a part of the Enrollify Podcast Network. If you like this podcast, chances are you'll like other Enrollify shows too!Enrollify is made possible by Element451 — the next-generation AI student engagement platform helping institutions create meaningful and personalized interactions with students. Learn more at element451.com.Attend the 2025 Engage Summit! The Engage Summit is the premier conference for forward-thinking leaders and practitioners dedicated to exploring the transformative power of AI in education. Explore the strategies and tools to step into the next generation of student engagement, supercharged by AI. You'll leave ready to deliver the most personalized digital engagement experience every step of the way.Register now to secure your spot in Charlotte, NC, on June 24-25, 2025! Early bird registration ends February 1st -- https://engage.element451.com/register

In this heartfelt episode of Our Forever Smiles, host Laura Arroyo sits down with Summer Kormushoff to reflect on her son's recent cleft lip surgery. Summer shares her personal experience navigating the emotional and logistical aspects of the procedure, offering an honest and moving look into the challenges and triumphs of her family's journey. Following the conversation, Laura and Summer dive into a Cleft Lip Repair Surgery 101, breaking down the procedure, recovery, and what parents and caregivers can expect. Whether you're currently navigating cleft lip surgery or simply want to learn more, this episode provides both an emotional connection and expert insight into this life-changing procedure. Tune in for a blend of real-life experience and expert guidance — offering hope, clarity, and a deeper understanding of the cleft lip surgery process. Links and Resources: Patreon Subscription Tiers for Exclusive Content Cleft Lip Repair Surgery 101 Blog Our Forever Smiles Merch Store Today's sponsor is sienna dawn media Integrated Marketing Agency  sienna dawn media is more than just a marketing agency—they are your partners in progress. Their mission is simple — to alleviate marketing bandwidth, allowing creative business owners to focus on what they set out to do: create. sienna dawn media empowers creatives to thrive without the burden of managing their own social media and marketing campaigns. So, if you're ready to set sail toward new horizons, let sienna dawn media chart the course and steer your business toward success. Visit siennadawnmedia.com.

In this episode, we are meeting with Ms. Sarika Moonian, who is a student service manager at University of the West Indies ROYTEC. Sarika is also one of the ACPA membership scholarship awardees this year. Today we will have her talk about her work as a student affairs profession supporting students in a multicultural community in Trinidad and Tobago.

Today's sponsor is sienna dawn media Integrated Marketing Agency  sienna dawn media is more than just a marketing agency—they are your partners in progress. Their mission is simple — to alleviate marketing bandwidth, allowing creative business owners to focus on what they set out to do: create. sienna dawn media empowers creatives to thrive without the burden of managing their own social media and marketing campaigns. So, if you're ready to set sail toward new horizons, let sienna dawn media chart the course and steer your business toward success. Visit siennadawnmedia.com. ______________________________________________________________________________________ In this heartfelt episode of Our Forever Smiles, we sit down with Alexis Garcia, a dedicated mom who opens up about her emotional journey through the early days of motherhood after her child's cleft diagnosis. Alexis shares her personal experiences with mom guilt, the emotional rollercoaster of navigating a cleft-affected newborn's needs, and the unique challenges faced during the postpartum period. With raw honesty, she talks about the pressure to "do it all," the struggle to find balance, and the moments of strength she found in herself through it all. This episode offers support, understanding, and encouragement to all parents in the cleft community, especially those who may be facing similar emotional hurdles. Tune in for an honest conversation about the ups and downs of the cleft journey and the powerful bond between mother and child. We understand that the journey through a cleft diagnosis can feel overwhelming, especially during the postpartum period. If you're feeling isolated, anxious, or simply need someone to talk to, please know you're not alone. Many parents face similar challenges, and there are resources and communities ready to support you every step of the way. If you're struggling with mom guilt, emotional stress, or just need guidance on how to navigate your journey, here are a few places you can reach out to for support: The American Cleft Palate-Craniofacial Association (ACPA) www.acpa-cpf.org ACPA provides both educational resources and a network of healthcare professionals to help families understand cleft care and treatment options. Postpartum Support International (PSI) www.postpartum.net PSI offers mental health resources, support groups, and trained professionals for anyone experiencing postpartum depression, anxiety, or other emotional challenges. National Helpline for Emotional Support Call 1-800-273-TALK (1-800-273-8255) for free, confidential support from trained counselors. If you're struggling with feelings of sadness, anxiety, or depression, don't hesitate to reach out. Remember, asking for help is a sign of strength, not weakness. It's okay to not have all the answers. Take care of yourself, and don't hesitate to lean on the resources and communities available to you.

In this episode of Student Affairs Now, ACPA Presidents past and present—Jill Carnaghi (2000-2001), Paul Shang (2002-2003), Stephen John Quaye (2017-2018), Rachel Aho (current ACPA President), and Jonathan McElderry (President-Elect)—connect with co-hosts Gudrun Nyunt and Heather Shea (immediate Past President) to reflect on ACPA's growth and influence over the years. The panel explores pivotal moments from their presidencies, the importance of ACPA's ongoing mission, and offer advice for future leadership. As ACPA celebrates its 100th birthday on ACPA Day (October 21, 2024), the conversation delves into how the association continues to influence the field and what lies ahead for its future. Don't miss this insightful discussion on leadership, legacy, and transformation in higher education!

This episode examines the current status, and future directions of race and indigeneity in student affairs and higher education. The episode offers a brief glimpse of the evolution of ACPA as an example of one professional association grappling with and addressing these complex issues.

In this co-hosted episode with ACPA our featured panelists discuss political and legislative advocacy in higher education. In an increasingly complex time in higher education, student affairs educators are faced with balancing navigating environments that are under greater scrutiny, supporting student well-being and success, and protecting their own personal well-being. Join our panelists as they share their guidance, pathways of discernment, and strategies for effective approaches to advocacy as educators and scholars.

Seronegativ vs. seropositiv – Unterscheidung der beiden Entitäten aus der Praxis: Wie sehen die Inzidenzzahlen in Literatur und Praxis aus? Zusätzliche Differenzierungstipps über die Bildgebung? Regelmäßige Antikörper-Tests ja oder nein? Gibt es Unterschiede in der Wirksamkeit der verfügbaren Therapien? Existiert die seronegative RA trotz feinspezifischer AK-Funde tatsächlich? Dies und mehr diskutieren die Rheumatologen Dr. Martin Krusche und Prof. Eugen Feist in dieser Folge von "Rheuma nachgefragt".

This week, we're excited to feature the ACPA Commission on Housing & Residential Life (CHRL) by talking with both the outgoing and incoming chairs, Drs. DeAndre Taylor and Leah Shaw respectively. They chat with Dustin about what CHRL is, how to get involved, and their reflections on their experiences so far.

In this conversation, we discuss the challenges, pride, and support for first-generation graduate students. Guests share their experiences, tips for others, recommendations and suggestions for faculty and staff working to support these students, and ways involvement and engagement with ACPA can help get that support and look to address systemic issues in higher education and society.

In this episode we are discussing serving minoritized students and the unique institutional types that focus on supporting minoritized students. Our hope is to focus on ways we can serve minoritized student populations at institutions that may not have been created with these populations in mind but are now playing an important role in providing access to higher education. By doing so, we hope to highlight what all institutions can learn about serving minoritized students and how professional associations, like ACPA, can better support student affairs and higher education professionals engaging in this important work.

In this episode, Melissa Venable hosts Dr. Pankaj Desai from NCDA's International Student Services Committee (ISSC). This conversation introduces the annual ISSC Mini-Conference taking place on Friday, August 9, 10:00-4:00pm CST.The virtual conference theme – Charting Your Course: Career Navigation for International Students in a Changing Landscape – includes presentations related to mental health, artificial intelligence, setting up a private practice, non-linear career paths, and more. The discussion also includes information about the International Student Services Committee and how you can get involved. Registration is free and open to all NCDA members, and attendance earns up to 5 CEs.Registration FormInformation and Agenda ResourcesISSC and other NCDA CommitteesISSC YouTube Channel More Information About Dr. DesaiDr. Pankaj Desai currently serves The Career Center at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign as the Senior Assistant Director for Inclusion Initiatives. Dr. Desai has a Ph.D. in Educational Studies from the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Multiculturalism in higher education, career development, international student support, globalization in education, college student persistence and engagement, and student development are some of his areas of interest. Dr. Desai currently serves the NCDA International Student Services Committee as the Chair of the annual mini-conference planning committee. Dr. Desai is also associated with ACPA as the Chair of the Commission for Global Dimensions of Student Development. Send us a Text Message.

The Indigenous Leadership Summit 2024 Melbourne was more than an event; it was a springboard for impactful change. This event united Australia's most influential minds to engage in bold and transformative conversations. Speakers explored and addressed the critical issues surrounding Indigenous careers, leadership advancements, and integration across all sectors. In this episode, recorded at the Indigenous Leadership Summit 2024, I yarn with Aunt Leah Purcell & Kaylah Truth. These two deadly women share a special bond and I had the absolute pleasure of hearing about each of their journeys that intertwined into a beautiful story of mentorship and sistahood.

As property managers you likely know a little bit about mortgages. But do you know about non-QM loan strategies and how your clients and investors can utilize them? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull sit down with Matt from Nexa Mortgage to talk about using non-QM strategies to unlock your portfolio's potential. You'll Learn [05:46] QM loans VS non-QM loans [16:14] Why Jason and Sarah went with non-QM [22:07] Which one should you choose? [26:46] Why should property managers know this? [32:23] What about long-term rentals Tweetables “If you have a great manager, it makes sense to get as many properties as you possibly can, knowing that they are in good hands and they are being taken care of because all you're doing is printing money.” “If you have a way that you can help your investor clients get what they want, which is more deals, it's a win.” “If you are a property manager, you should also be an investor in real estate.” “It's great to manage properties and let's do that and build wealth ourselves.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: He said, "I am not joking. I had to submit over 100 documents to the company in order to just see if I'm qualified to get this additional loan. And he's like, I just feel like there has to be an easier way." And there is, but sometimes people don't know about that.   [00:00:20] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:39] DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management, growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hull, the CEO and COO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.  [00:01:23] All right. And today we're hanging out with Matt Dean of Nexa Mortgage, and we're going to have an interesting conversation about financing and loans and I don't know, and some other stuff, but Matt welcome to the show.  [00:01:36] Matthew: Good morning. [00:01:37] Good morning. Thanks for having me.  [00:01:38] Jason: It's good to have you. So give us a little bit of background of how you got into the whole real estate industry and give people a little bit of background on you.  [00:01:49] Matthew: Sure. So, after I graduated from college, which I went to college in Missouri, I ended up moving to Austin, Texas, and one of the first jobs I got was with a commercial finance company and that landed me in Lakeway, which is where I reside now, and have been for over 15 years. But the commercial finance company that I worked with was was a fairly new company that came in from California. The owners Had a mortgage background and had gotten into this commercial finance division. [00:02:15] They had sold off a couple of mortgage companies opened up this division and Lakeway. They were also land developers and commercial finance guys. So they saw a lot of opportunity out here and opened up this company. So anyway, I got in on the ground floor. They were relocating the company here and had a couple year run with that. [00:02:31] And then in early 2000, the .Com kind of came in and blew up that whole industry. So what we were doing was commercial finance, equipment finance really, and at the time it was a lot of computer equipment and I was working with a lot of Dell sales reps that were taking over some of their overflow that Dell didn't want to finance. [00:02:49] So, when all that happened, and it blew up the owners who had the mortgage background really saw that "hey, we're going to see a refinance run here. The market's going to crash rates are going to come down. There's going to be a run." And so they immediately just flip. They had a mortgage company here, but it wasn't early. It was dormant. Yeah. And they flipped it open and and just started building that company out. And so that's ultimately how I got into the mortgage business. And, right after that, we had this really big refinance run. We grew that company very quickly to about 35 employees where we were doing 300 to 400 loans a month with a fairly small company. [00:03:27] And that just, jump straight in and learn the business. And so then in about 2007 ish, 2006 ish, I really got exposed to the investment world, so to speak. I got partnered up with a real estate brokerage here in Austin that focused on investment properties and primarily what they were focusing on was duplexes. [00:03:47] And so that year in 2006, I believe it closed 152 duplex transactions, and it was mainly California investors coming into Austin. And it really just changed my whole perspective of the mortgage industry as opposed to first time buyers or veterans, which I enjoy working with all those folks, but the commercial or the investment world, it's a different animal in that it's less emotion and more about business. And so I really just gravitated more to working with investors, started buying properties myself managed a few properties myself and then, evolved from there. But I worked with that same group and Lakeway for about 12 years and then moved around a couple of places and work for a builder and and a couple other companies. [00:04:29] But anyway, that's how I got in it, got started.  [00:04:31] Jason: Yeah, so you've seen it from a few different angles than the whole real estate investment industry, sounds like. [00:04:37] Matthew: Yeah, I've been through a few of these cycles of ups and downs. Obviously the refinance run early on was, really interesting, but a lot of good, easy money on the table, so to speak, but then we had the crash, which was a very difficult time for a couple of years, although, Austin weathered that storm pretty well relative to a lot of other areas of the country. [00:04:56] So, even though our volumes were down, our real estate didn't see as big of an equity loss and the job market here in Austin's always been really strong. So, it pulled us back out of it fairly quickly. We're in a situation now where rates are high and property values have gone up. [00:05:11] And it's a challenge for some folks here to purchase. A lot of folks are just priced out of the market and can't afford it. And property taxes aren't helping that situation.  [00:05:19] Jason: Yeah,  [00:05:20] Sarah: It's so pricey here. So pricey.  [00:05:22] Matthew: But we're starting to see a little bit of pull back on the values and the houses. It's a little bit more of a buyer's market now, but it still needs to come down a little bit, I think in my opinion, it's to balance the market again.  [00:05:34] Jason: Interesting. So the topic today is unlock your portfolio potential, non QM strategies for real estate investors. And for those that don't know what QM is, which I don't. So educate me. What's QM?  [00:05:47] Sarah: So I handled all of this stuff and Jason got to the closing table and he's like, "I'm an owner in the LLC, right?"  [00:05:54] Matthew: It's like, yeah, I barely talked to you along the way, but anyway, yeah, so let's talk a little bit about QM and how that all started. So, after the real estate crash in the 2006, 2007, eight ish area the CFPB was formed a consumer finance protection bureau, which took over the regulation with the mortgage industry. [00:06:12] It took them a few years, but in 2014 they implemented what was called TRID, which you may have heard that word, but it was where we got rid of the good faith estimate and integrated the new loan estimate and closing disclosure took over. And at that same point in time, the regulations came out and then classified conventional loans or reclassified them as qualified mortgages. [00:06:35] What that means really is the CFPB was trying to put protections in place to protect consumers and also strengthen guidelines to make sure that people or buyers had the ability to repay. So what that really meant was additional restrictions on ability to repay, debt ratio requirements, reserve assets, et cetera. [00:06:55] So, if you do a conventional loan, which is Fannie, Freddie. Those are considered qualified mortgages. They have additional protections in that you're maxed at the amount of fees you can charge a buyer. The APR has to be within guidelines within a maximum. So all those things are really for consumer protection, right? [00:07:14] At the same time, what caused the market crash before was what subprime mortgages. And so at the time, subprime mortgages initially had a place in the market. They really were good for investors because investors were putting money down, they had good credit typically, and they had reserve assets. [00:07:35] When the market shifted, and they started using subprime loans to qualify buyers for primary residences that really had no business buying homes is where it got in trouble. So after QM was announced or came out with CFPB, then they also had non QM loans. What that means is any loan that falls outside of the qualified mortgage guidelines, for whatever reason, can still be funded or it would fall within non QM. [00:07:59] Non QM just meant if you're a lender who does those type of loans, you're now required to hold additional reserve assets in your bank or your mortgage company per loan to cover for the potential higher risk and default.  [00:08:12] Jason: Okay.  [00:08:13] Matthew: And it took a few years from 2014. The market started to come out with products in 2015. [00:08:18] The industry was really not sure how to handle it. A lot of banks didn't want to even dive into it. And then it started to evolve. And "okay, there's a big market here." So now it's one of the fastest growing segments of the market and banks have realize or figured out how to meet the ability to repay guidelines with alternative methods, right? [00:08:41] So you don't have to have W2s and tax returns and pay stubs, which a conventional QM loan would require. Now, they look at different factor, like, 12 months business bank statements. I can look at a CPA prepared profit and loss statement, I can look at just the rent income on the property and that's what's classified or called DSCR. [00:09:03] And then also it's asset based loans where we just look at the asset and we turn the asset into a revenue stream. So that's really how non QM started and really what it is. It's just an alternative way of qualifying the mortgages that falls outside of the Fannie Freddie conventional type of loans. [00:09:21] Jason: Got it.  [00:09:21] Sarah: So what does that mean for investors? Because we have some investors that listen to us and we have some property managers who work with investors. So what would that mean for an investor that is looking to get into more investment properties?  [00:09:39] Matthew: Yeah, absolutely. So, the challenge that a lot of investors run into is a lot of them are self employed and a lot of them start accumulating property. [00:09:48] So if they fall into either one of those categories, either they're self employed. Or they've accumulated a lot of properties or both, right? The challenge becomes with qualified mortgages is from an income perspective, right? So good CPAs are going to try and shelter income for self employed borrowers and for investors by showing, minimal profits or minimal or losses on their properties. [00:10:11] And so, as investors start to accumulate more properties, it becomes more challenging to qualify for conventional loans, because for every property on a conventional loan, Fannie and Freddie want additional reserve assets. So that means you start getting 6 properties, you need assets for each one of those properties on top of down payment funds for the purchase property and the reserves on that property. [00:10:33] So, from two perspectives, either an income perspective, where we have a challenge again, a self employed borrower shows losses on his tax returns for the last 5 years by design, because he doesn't want to pay taxes, or we've got multiple properties also showing losses when I'm looking at income on a conventional loan basis, I have to use the income from the tax return. [00:10:52] So losses can be a problem. Also, the reserve requirements, so, taking into those two scenarios, you've got a self employed borrower that, let's say they, they have gross revenue of half a million dollars, but they're showing losses of, 50-60-70,000 dollars. We're just looking at 12 months bank statements in that case, which gives us gross revenue and then we back out of a factor of say, 25 to 30 percent for taxes and we use that as revenue or income to qualify. If we have an investor that, let's say, not necessarily self employed they have multiple rental properties that are basically just, showing losses and now their income is diminished to where they can't qualify. [00:11:32] Then we have the debt service coverage ratio programs. Like, we utilize with your property where we're looking at just the rent on the property. Right? So the rent the market rent or the short term rental just needs to cover the principal interest, taxes, insurance and fees. And so those are 2 products that we use and that's really how, I would say it helps investors in those scenarios. [00:11:54] The other products that we could look at are P& L products meaning that ACPA provides a P& L statement, and then we can use that income, or if they have significant assets just in investment funds and whatnot, we can turn that into a revenue stream. But the bottom line is it just eliminates the need for W 2s, tax returns, or pay stubs, and we look at other alternative income sources to qualify. [00:12:18] Sarah: It's funny. I was actually on Instagram the last week, I think. And there's this guy, he has a very large account and I can't remember his name. And he's very big on investing in real estate. And he said, "guys, like, I just need some help. I like I'm going through this whole process and you jumped through 10, 000 hoops." and he said, "I am not joking. I had to submit over 100 documents to the company in order to just see if I'm qualified to get this additional loan. And he's like, I just feel like there has to be an easier way." And there is, but sometimes people don't know about that. I still talk to investors and property managers and they don't know. [00:13:02] They're like, "I'm just too conventional. That's like what you do. That's like the normal thing that we're all trained and used to doing." So just knowing that there are other options that don't require all of these crazy hoops to jump through and all of this documentation and lots of red tape and underwriting. [00:13:22] It's not that it's eliminated. It's just that it's a lot easier of a process and especially if you're a savvy investor that takes a loss on your taxes, just because your tax return shows a loss, it doesn't actually mean that you're losing money, right? So there's a big difference there. So that plays a big part too. [00:13:43] Matthew: Yeah, there are investors. Sorry. I didn't mean to jump in there, but there are definitely investors that lean on that from a documentation standpoint. Right? They've been down this road. They have multiple properties and more properties, you have the more documentation you need to provide to try and qualify for those conventional loans and it just becomes more and more challenging. [00:14:00] And, even more so if you have a loan officer on the front end of that's trying to originate a loan, that isn't really versed in investment properties and doesn't know how to underwrite the tax returns, they can get in trouble. They look, "oh, I got good credit. I've got down payments." But when you try and pull together tax returns and the income from multiple properties and business losses and this and that, it becomes very complex. And it's honestly, a lot of loan officers don't even know how to look at that correctly. And so they just throw the file up. It goes to underwriting. And then 2 weeks later, they've got a problem. But I just closed a deal actually yesterday and it was ended up going non QM short term rental. And the gentleman is great credit owns his own businesses, owns multiple properties and schools here, but the documentation, because he owns, like, 8 companies and probably 7 or 8 rental properties, and he had a partner in this particular property that, It became so complicated with trying to pull some of that stuff together and also with the partner who wasn't necessarily as strong as him where it just made sense for us to go short term rental and move on. [00:15:07] And that's what we did. So we just made it easy. He was happy that he didn't have to continue to jump through all those hoops. And we were able to get the property done and close in about two and a half weeks.  [00:15:17] Jason: You said it made sense to go short term rental. You meant to go non QM. Is that what you meant? [00:15:21] Matthew: To go non QM. Yeah. We went short term rental income, which is non QM to qualify the income on the property. This happens to be a short term rental down on the Comal River and it's got great income. It just he had a private money loan on it when he purchased it needed to refinance the note was coming due and he just has a very complex financial situation. [00:15:43] And he got involved with a partner on this property that also created some challenges with that particular situation and just made it a lot easier to use him and go non QM short term rental income only and just get it done.  [00:15:54] Jason: So, would that be a DSCR loan going on the short term rental income? [00:15:59] Or is that different?  [00:15:59] Matthew: Yes, it is technically a DSCR loan, which means debt service coverage ratio. And this is what we utilize with your property as well, by the way. we're looking at either long term rents.  [00:16:10] Jason: We should tell that story, by the way, everyone listening has no clue. [00:16:13] Sarah: I know, right?  [00:16:14] Jason: Why don't we have Sarah explain like why we went this route, how we ended up talking with Matt and like how this all worked out.  [00:16:21] Sarah: Okay, let's do that. So, Jason, oddly proudly, he's like, "I've never owned a rental property and I've never managed a rental property. And I do this now." And I said, "this is nothing to be proud of. Like you're 46, you should own things. You should have assets." So like I, on the other hand, like I had, in my twenties, I started investing in real estate. So, Jason and I for a while have been saying like, "when are we going to get one together?" [00:16:48] Because we didn't have one yet and he never had one.  [00:16:51] Then also our circumstances in life have changed a little bit. And we thought " we need an additional property at this point." And we were in a unique situation where right now in Austin, I'll just start by saying long term rental is hard to make it make sense financially. [00:17:10] You're probably not going to cashflow.  [00:17:13] Jason: Yeah.  [00:17:13] Sarah: Not right now. Anyway, it's just, it's really hard because prices are high. And interest rates are also high. This is where we are. So we couldn't have possibly done a long term rental anyway, because we needed the property to have some personal use on it. [00:17:28] And we decided, "Hey, let's also use it for some of our DoorGrow events." Because every time that we do an event, We pay somebody else.  [00:17:37] So let's pay ourselves through that. So for that reason, it only can really be used as a short term rental property. So we decided, "Hey, there's these kind of three components." [00:17:48] And I'm really big on asset protection, meaning I need the property to be owned and deeded and financed in an LLC. So originally I was working with another agent. We've worked with him before on our primary home. He's a really great agent. I had asked him about, "can we fund it in the name of an LLC?" [00:18:09] And he said, "no you can't do that. It doesn't really work that way." And it seemed like he was just trying to talk us out of it. I even talked with that he typically uses and that we used on our, Home that we live in. And he said, "Oh no, yeah, we don't do properties in the LLC. It'll be in your name. And then after closing, we could do a quick claim and then like change the deed and put the deed in the LLC name." And I said, "okay, what about the mortgage?" And he said, "no. The mortgage stays in your name." And I said, "I'm out." Like that is where I'm out. You're piercing the veil. [00:18:44] All of my personal assets would now be exposed and on the line. And that completely defeats the purpose of having an LLC. And he was like, yeah, we just don't do that. I really don't think that's going to be a problem. So I said, "okay, do you know anybody now he's been in this business for like 20 or 30 years?" [00:19:02] "Do you know anybody that can do that?" And he said, "Oh, not really." So that was time to start looking for somebody else because I know that it can be done. I've done it in Pennsylvania. So there's no way that Texas can't do this. Texas is far ahead of Pennsylvania in a lot of different ways.  [00:19:19] Jason: So we found another agent. [00:19:20] Sarah: So we found another agent who then referred us to Matt and he said, "Hey, I know a guy. He's really great. And I'm pretty sure he can do what you need." So I said, "great. What's his information?" I had a conversation with Matt and he's like, "Oh, well, yeah, we can do that." And I said, "so you can put the loan in the LLC. Not my name, the LLC. He said yeah, we can do that." Like it was easy. So it can be done. Sometimes you just have to look around a little bit. So that was how our deal was structured. So we went non QM and we ended up doing, since it is a short term rental, we went DSCR so that the rents would cover essentially your PITI. [00:20:00] And this is how we made our deal work. So we closed PITI. [00:20:06] Jason: PITI for the listeners is...  [00:20:07] Sarah: principal interest taxes insurance. [00:20:11] Matthew: Yeah, so, I know that was how our conversation started was, " can we do this in the LLC?" And we walked through that and the pros and cons a little bit, I think, and that's one thing that conventional QM loans don't really not really, they don't allow that. You cannot fund in an LLC. [00:20:25] Now, what happens is a lot of people like you were advised, "hey, fund it in your name, slip it to the LLC later." That can cause some problems because Fannie Mae does have due on sale clauses in their loan documents. So, technically, if there's an ownership change, that note can be called due. Typically, you can just flip it back into your name and stop that process, but it becomes a cat and mouse game back and forth if you have a servicer that's trying to, exercise that for some reason, it doesn't happen very often. It's not a very high risk, but it's definitely something you need to be aware of. On the non QM side, the lenders want these, or most of them prefer them to be funded into LLCs because non QM as a whole is considered business purpose lending. [00:21:11] It falls outside of the consumer protection, finance protection Bureau oversight. So, it's considered or classified more of like a commercial loan. And so most of them require, or want you to fund into an LLC. There are some that will do them in their personal names. It's interesting. They follow more of a conventional loan program, which I'm not really sure I understand, because they issue a closing disclosure and they look at loan estimates, even though it's considered a non loan. So they just handle a little bit differently. Those companies will allow you to do it in your name and some of them are doing a lot of those companies are also doing primary residences under a non QM basis. So bank statement products for somebody who may be self employed also trying to buy a primary residence. That's where I see it more. Most of the the LLC stuff is for investors and those lenders are going to. Really prefer or require it to be in an LLC. [00:22:07] Jason: Got it. Okay, cool. So what should investors know in order to make the decision as to which way they should go? Like, how do you make the deciding factor? Like, what are some of the things that kind of weigh into this?  [00:22:20] Matthew: Yeah, I think really it's a conversation initially of can they qualify for a conventional loan? Do they understand what non QM loans have to offer? A lot of investors aren't familiar with the details of non QM loans, how they work, how they can help them. So it's really an education conversation of, what options we may have available. Right? I would always start with the conventional loans typically and, see if we can qualify. If you can go that route and you're putting 25 percent down you're going to get a little bit better interest rates. And then you don't have some of the other key factors that come with non QM loans. So most non QM loans do have some sort of prepayment penalty because they're selling these to a secondary hedge fund investor that wants a minimum return. So, in most cases, you're going to have a prepayment penalty in a conventional loan. Stay out of point. A QM loan legally cannot have a prepayment penalty. [00:23:14] So there's a big difference there. But as far as qualifying them, it's a really, like I said, an education and a conversation about what their profile looks like. Right? They self employed. Do they own multiple properties? Are they showing losses or profits on those properties? And then, really documenting that, 9 times out of 10, what I'm told on a verbal conversation doesn't match what I get on the documentation that way. [00:23:38] "Oh, my business makes this," but they're talking about gross revenue, not net income. They're talking about gross rent amounts, not the net income they're showing on their tax returns. So it needs to go the next level. But that initial conversation may determine quite quickly that, hey, we need to go non for what reason or, because they want to fund it in an LLC, because the property is really a short term rental, but it doesn't but they don't have any history of short term rental management. [00:24:07] And let's talk just a little bit about, how you look at the short term rental. I know that's what we were talking a little bit about before we talked about your loan, right? So there's 2 ways to look at that short term rental and it's either from well, the rental income short term or long term can either come from an appraiser. [00:24:23] Or from a software program that some lenders are now using. So a lot of lenders will lean on a typical, appraisal to an appraiser to come up with whatever that market rent may be. And like, like, you said, it's difficult to cash flow properties in Austin or in Texas. On long term rents simply because the property taxes have escalated and now with higher interest rates. [00:24:48] So a lot of times, the short term rental is really from a lending perspective an easier way to qualify the property for 1. But we do have the ability to look at it from two different perspectives and this is what we utilized on your loan. So I'll just talk about a little bit. So I have a couple lenders that will look at the short term rental from a software perspective. [00:25:05] Right? So in your case. When we had the discussion, it was really a matter of, yeah, "I really want to put 20 percent down. I don't want to put additional money down. That would be more important to me than a little bit higher interest rate. Right?" And so, when we look at different lenders that may be leaning on an appraisal. [00:25:21] I don't know what that number is for 2 weeks and me personally I feel like appraisers, especially in the short term rental market. Are a little bit lazy and sometimes they just don't have the data. So what happens is I submitted to the lender based on an 80 percent loan to value. And then all of a sudden, my short term rental income comes back low or lower than what we may have expected. [00:25:42] And now that's requiring you to put an additional 5 percent down to meet their guidelines of a debt service coverage ratio less than one or go no ratio, right? We still have an option, but the option is going to require you to put a little bit more money down. And so. Again, we have two ways to look at it either an appraisals given us that number or with some investors. [00:26:00] And this is why I like working with some of those in that case. Like I said, your most important factor is 20 percent down. so I took it to a lender that gave me that short term rental number within 48 hours. They ran it through their system. They gave it to me immediately and said, "this is where we should be." As soon as we submitted the loan to underwriting within 2 days, we had an approval and this was confirmed short term rental amount. We didn't have to wait on the appraiser and it didn't matter what the appraiser's opinion was. They already confirmed what we were going to use, which confirmed that I could get your loan approved with just 20 percent down. So, that's a preferred method in a lot of ways, especially if we're trying to keep that 20 percent down number. [00:26:38] If we have somebody that's putting 25-30 percent down, then it's. A little bit less relevant and we can, decide what option might be best for them at that point.  [00:26:46] Jason: Got it. So why should property managers who are constantly wanting to do more deals, help more investors, why should they have somebody like Matt in their back pocket? [00:26:57] Sarah: Oh, that's such a good question. Well, I want to think of it kind of twofold. One, I feel like if you are a property manager, you should also be an investor in real estate. Real estate agents just by having access to the MLS. No, that's not where all deals come from. I know that, but just by having access to the MLS and the connections that you have as a real estate agent and property manager, there's no chance that you don't come across amazing deals all the time. [00:27:23] There's no chance. So capitalize on that.  [00:27:26] You should also be an investor yourself. It's great to manage properties and let's do that and build wealth ourselves. Yeah. So that's number one. But number two is if you're like, "well, I like, I don't know, I'm unsure, or maybe I have one property or two properties and I don't know if I'm ready to continue to build a portfolio." [00:27:46] Or you're like, "Hey, I have X many properties and I'm happy right here. I don't want any more." I don't know why, but maybe you are. So if that's the case and you have investor clients that very likely would love to get into more deals themselves. And it would be great for you because now if you have an investor and they manage five doors, but that same investor can now manage 10, 20, 38. [00:28:11] That's fantastic because now your business is growing. So if you have a way that you can help your investor clients get what they want, which is more deals, it's a win because yes, the savvy investors, they're always looking for more deals. Jason's hooked now. He said to me, we closed and he was like, "how do we do another one? like, how do we do another one?" He's like, "how fast can we do another one? Like Sarah, is it possible if we do like one property a year," right? And he did. Yeah, he did. There's a lot of investors like that because once you get it. Once you really get to see all of the benefits and just how freaking beautiful it is to be a real estate investor and make money and get all of the tax benefits that you don't get in almost any other sector. [00:28:54] It's amazing. So why would you not want more of that? So if you're a property manager, it would make so much sense for you to just be able to educate your investor clients. "Hey, have you ever thought of picking up more properties?" The answer probably is going to be "yes," especially if you're doing a great job for them as a property manager. [00:29:14] Because that's a tricky part is, "well, I could buy a bunch of properties, but who's going to manage them?" If you have a great manager, it makes sense to get as many properties as you possibly can, knowing that they are in good hands and they are being taken care of because all you're doing is printing money. [00:29:30] So if you want to grow your portfolio by adding additional deals to the clients that you already have. It's like so simple, right? Why would we not do that? So having options. that not everybody knows about. It's fantastic.  [00:29:47] Jason: So in short, this just gives them a lot more options to work with because investors want to invest, and they may think, "Oh, well, I've only got this much down or I can only do a conventional, I can only do it this way. I need to meet certain criteria" or "I've just declared all these losses."  [00:30:04] Sarah: "Like I have too much debt." Maybe their like debt to income is a little maxed out because we're, keeping up with the Joneses. This is so normal, right? So that and Matt's laughing. He sees it all the time. [00:30:15] I bet he's like, "Oh, we went a little too high on that one." [00:30:18] there's good debt and bad debt though as well, right?  [00:30:21] Correct. However, if you own five properties or six properties or seven properties, every additional property that you have that is leveraged, meaning that you have a mortgage on it, that's counting against you and your debt to income ratio. [00:30:35] Jason: Right. So it gets harder and harder using conventional to get into more property.  [00:30:40] Sarah: Unless you're the Fed and you can just print money.  [00:30:42] Jason: Well, I don't know if they're buying  [00:30:44] Matthew: a lot of money.  [00:30:44] But you bring up a good point and just to clarify when we do a debt service coverage ratio program, I'm not looking at any of your debt. [00:30:52] I'm not looking at a debt ratio calculation at all. And if you own multiple properties, I'm not even looking at any of those other properties for any sort of rent, income, verification, mortgage, anything. This one is a business, right? Correct. It's it. Well, it's just debt service coverage on that subject property, right? [00:31:10] Does the rent cover the note? And do we have enough money for down payment and reserves on that property alone? We don't look at reserves for those additional properties like you would a conventional. So you got five properties. I don't care about reserves on those. I'm only looking at the subject property. [00:31:24] So, yes, debt to income is a big factor and I think, if we're talking to property management companies, it's really just an education or a knowledge of what potentially could be out there. Right? Like you said, they have opportunities to buy all the time. I would think that the savvy property manager is going to scoop those up if they can, but are they aware of these programs? [00:31:44] Or do they think that? "Oh, my debt to income is too high or I have losses on my tax returns that I'm going to have trouble qualifying." And then you also have your network of investors that you manage those properties for that potentially are looking for additional doors, but they're not aware of these programs in some cases. [00:32:00] So, yeah, it's just a matter of, I think, education and just getting the information out there. So that some of these people know what options are available.  [00:32:09] Jason: Well, it sounds like it shifts the conversation from, "can we?" Yeah. Maybe it's a no, in their thought, in their mind to "how can we?" Like, there's other creative ways that things could be done instead of saying, "Oh, it's gotta be this one way we've always done it. That's the only way." So, what about for long term rentals? Which like some of the investors listening and a lot of our clients listening may not do a short term.  [00:32:32] Sarah: You can still do a non QM on a long term, especially in Austin. Now, other markets, you might find a cashflow. Like I have a cashflow property in Pennsylvania. [00:32:40] It's a rare gem guys, but in Austin, it's hard to get something to cashflow, especially right now.  [00:32:47] Matthew: Okay, so there's two ways to look at it again. There's, or I guess, multiple ways to look at it. Not just two, but bank statements if I'm looking at it. So, if they're self employed, and they have a business that we can lean on the bank statements, right? [00:32:59] That's my income qualifier and no longer care about that negative potential cash flow on the property in the rent. Right? So that's one way. If I'm doing debt service coverage and I'm looking at long term rental, I have a client that wants to long term rented. They're not going to be comfortable stating short term rental on the application. [00:33:17] They really have no desire to do that. Then I have to look at the short term rent. Now, what that's typically going to end up, at least in Austin, what's typically going to end up happening is that property is going to have a problem cash flowing at 20 percent down or 80 percent equity. Right? So what happens is it now pushes us to. [00:33:34] A bigger down payment, a larger down payment, 25 percent 30%. And then we have the options with those lower loan values to do either no ratio or lower debt coverage ratio loan programs. Right? So. If it falls below 100%, meaning 100 percent rent coverage with PITI coverage which principal interest taxes, insurance and HOA fees all come into that play. But let's just say it's a little bit short. I've got a PITI of 2000 dollars of my rent's 1800. well, the lender is going to do one or two things. Are you going to say, "well, we need more down to get that to 100%." Or "we're going to reclassify it as a higher risk and we'll do, some of them will go down to 75 percent debt coverage, but it's a little bit higher rate." [00:34:18] Or "we have to go to a little bit larger down payment and go no ratio, right?" No ratio means we just eliminate that altogether. And it's typically 30 percent down. So, we have options to look at but it is definitely a little bit harder if we're looking at long term rents simply because it's harder to cash flows at 20%, unless again, unless we have larger down payments or larger equity positions, for refinances to soak. [00:34:42] A lot of these let's talk about that too, you have some of your property management clients that may want to purchase more properties where they could extract equity out of these homes to use to purchase more property. So there's a lot of the refinance going on with those properties to under a non QM basis, because they again, they can't qualify for a full doc for whatever reasons. [00:35:03] Right? But there are options to pull cash out under a non QM basis and utilize those funds to reinvest.  [00:35:09] Jason: Got it. So say they've got five, 10 properties, it's getting really difficult for them to qualify for a QM loan. They could maybe pull some equity out of their existing properties, do like a cash out refi, and then use that money to fund a bigger down payment to do a non QM scenario. [00:35:28] Matthew: Absolutely. Absolutely. The challenge right now in the market with refinances in general is a lot of these people have really good rates on those properties. And so they don't necessarily want to refinance and lose that low rate understandably. Right? So. In other states, you have a the ability to do HELOCs or he loans, which are second liens, Texas, it's a little bit limited. [00:35:47] There's not as many products available, especially on the investment side. There are ways to extract some of that equity and reposition it to be reinvested in other investment opportunities. And I will say that we do have the ability to do the same type of loans on small commercial properties. [00:36:04] Like, up to I've got one lender that kind of specializes in that small commercial that goes up to 24 units. So, between 5 and 24 unit apartment buildings, we're also looking at a non QM type debt service coverage loan, which is what commercial loans look at in general anyway. Commercial loans are based on cash flow, right? [00:36:23] It's all debt service coverage based on that. But in that small apartment complex arena, you've got a lot of these kind of more residential lenders that are focusing and specializing in it. Because it's a piece of the market that's left out, right? Your commercial lenders don't want to touch something that's a few 100, 000 dollars. They have minimums of 5Million dollars, 3Million dollars. And so you have these smaller properties that are great investments in some cases that also have challenges getting loans, not because of the property, but because of the size of the loan.  [00:36:55] Jason: It's just not big enough for him. [00:36:56] So Matt what areas do you cover personally? And then how do people find somebody like you, how did they find somebody like you? Like, this was a challenge we had to ask around what do people look for to find somebody that can help them with some more creative options?  [00:37:11] Matthew: That's a good question. I wish more people would know how to find me. So maybe you can help me with that. But yeah, it's just, it's interesting. There's a lot of loan officers that just don't, I guess maybe they're scared of the non QM space. They don't understand it. They're scared of change, so to speak, and so they just go, "I've never done that. And I don't know anything about it and they don't want to learn about it." it's the fastest growing segment of the market right now. Fannie Mae is pushing a lot of the paper towards non QM from a risk perspective. They want to get away from it. They're making investment rates in terms unattractive, so to speak, so they're offloading it that way. But, I think it's really through the real estate agents is probably the best way to get in touch with somebody like me, if they're familiar with it. But what's interesting is even your agent from McLean that I work a lot with Brett. [00:38:00] He wasn't 100 percent versed in these products either. So. Fortunately, he got me, right?  [00:38:05] Sarah: Yeah. Thank you, Brett.  [00:38:07] Matthew: But, yeah, as far as if you have somebody that's questions, I'm always available to potentially educate people in regards to these programs. As far as where I do business, I'm legally licensed in Texas and Arizona, meaning national mortgage licensing, which is the, the CFPB license. [00:38:22] Now, with non QM loans about 35 states don't require you to have a license within that state. So I can do non QM debt service coverage all these type of loans that we talked about in about 34 different states. Just with my national license and because they consider a business purpose use, it's classified as a commercial loan in those states, and they don't have these overbearing laws like California does or Nevada. So there are some states that it's difficult unless you want to jump through a bunch of hoops to do it. And unless there's enough volume, there hasn't made sense for me to do it. [00:38:55] I just focus on the ones that I can, which is a big piece of the country and we can help folks in those 30 some states, 34 states, whatever it is.  [00:39:03] Jason: So there's maybe 15, 16 states that you can't cover.  [00:39:06] Matthew: It's the New York the Pacific Northwest and California, most of the middle of the country around Texas we can do. [00:39:14] I know you, you referred me to somebody in Utah the other day, they happen to be a state that requires licensing, but their licensing is pretty reasonable. So, if there was an opportunity or a reason, for some volume to come out of there, I could get licensed fairly quickly. [00:39:28] And some of these states, because I already hold a national license within them. I passed the test for that, which means you just have to take the state piece of that exam to then get licensed. Be able to do loans there, which is fairly simple. And as long as you're not in New York or California or somebody that has these crazy laws,  [00:39:44] Sarah: What's to invest there anyway, come on, like squatters and all this, like? [00:39:48] Matthew: I know, right? [00:39:49] I don't know how everybody does loans in New York. I hear it takes 90 days to close a loan.  [00:39:54] Jason: There's plenty of investors in those markets. I'm sure people listening. All right. Cool. Well, Matt, it's been great having you here on the DoorGrow show. Appreciate you being our guest. How can people find you or get in touch with you? [00:40:06] If they're wanting to reach out and find out if they're one of those 34 states.  [00:40:10] Matthew: Well, my number if you want my phone number is 512 415 6142. You can Google Nexa my name. I think if you Google my name and Nexa mortgage that come up quite a bit on the Google nexahomelending.Com is my personal website. [00:40:27] That's probably the two best ways to reach out to me just text or email and I'm more than happy to help you in any way that I can.  [00:40:34] Jason: Perfect. Well, it sounds like this is at least a key or just a tool or an idea that every property manager listening should probably have in their back pocket. [00:40:44] You should have some sort of connection to a more creative lender than you may have currently. And so, connect with Matt or maybe, I don't know, start Googling non QM lenders in your market. I don't know, but find somebody or ask around to some real estate agents, but see if you can get somebody that can help with getting some of these deals because investors, they have money, they have equity and, but they're not doing deals and they want to probably do more deals and they just need somebody creative enough to help them find some solutions or interesting ways to make it happen. [00:41:13] So, all right. Well, again, Matt, thanks for being on the show. Appreciate you.  [00:41:17] Matthew: My pleasure. Thank you very much for having me.  [00:41:19] Jason: All right. Well, everybody, if you are interested in growing your business, your property management business, reach out to us, you can check us out at doorgrow.Com. And until next time, everybody to our mutual growth. Bye everyone.  [00:41:30] Matthew: Great. Thank you. Talk to you guys soon. Bye. [00:41:32] Jason: you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:41:59] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

We're thrilled to have the one and only Heather Shea on the podcast this week! Heather chats with Dustin about her time as ACPA President this past year, celebrating the organization's 100 year history, and her work on the Student Affairs Now podcast.

As ACPA celebrated its 100th anniversary as an association, this panel of four ACPA Presidents reviewed its history to inform its current context and its future. The conversation explores why ACPA's history matters, two themes of advancing our professional development and our with students on campuses, and bridging the past and the future.

Transition as Growth: Vaughn's Bold Leaps from Athletics to Student Services In the heartwarming and inspiring latest episode of NASPA's SA Voices From the Field podcast we welcomed Dr. Vaughn Calhoun, an esteemed academic leader, recounted his transformative journey from a student athlete with a career-ending injury to a beacon for change in higher education.  Engineering Identity Post-Injury Calhoun began by sharing the immediate consequences of his injury and the impact it had on his self-image and life trajectory. He emphasized the importance of identity reconstruction, an experience that propelled him from a series of unfulfilling jobs to the realization that he needed to embrace authentic studenthood—a leap he bravely took by pursuing a master's degree far from the world of sports he knew. Encounters That Changed His Path One of the most pivotal moments in Calhoun's life was an encounter with a stranger at Borders bookstore who saw in him a potential future as a university athletic director. This set him on a path to his doctorate, with a determined goal to understand and improve collegiate athletics from an administrative perspective. Mentorship and Its Lasting Impact Calhoun credited much of his success to the mentors he encountered, specifically highlighting an inviting university president who believed in him and guided his professional growth. This president showed Calhoun how to harness vulnerability and understanding, which in turn helped him carve out his niche in student affairs. The Student at Heart of the Leader With a robust background in public policy and the professoriate, Calhoun brought humility and an unwavering focus on student success to his administrative roles. His approach has always been about being receptive to student needs and advocating for their growth and success, a principle he implemented in his roles at various educational institutions. Innovation and Adaptation Furthermore, Calhoun discussed the rise of AI in education and the urgent need for educators to integrate new technologies. Adaptation, he stressed, is not only inevitable but essential for student support and success, highlighting the importance of ethical considerations in the digital age. Embracing the Journey Closing the episode, Calhoun imparted advice to student affairs professionals undergoing transitions, encouraging them to focus on the process and seek mentorship. He suggests that staying authentic, seeking challenging experiences, and forming a supportive network are keys to personal and professional development.   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back to our next episode of student affairs voices from the field. Today, we sat down with doctor Vaughn Calhoun live and in person at the NASPA annual conference in March 2024, Seattle, Washington. Doctor Calhoun serves as the assistant vice president of student services and dean of Center For Academic Success at Seton Hall University in South Orange, New Jersey. He's been featured on a number of national platforms, including platforms, including Fortune Magazine, Education Edition, The Chronicle of Higher Ed, Inside Higher Ed, Huffington Post, NASPA Policy Briefs, and the Student Affairs Now podcast. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:54]: A thought leader and commentator on issues related to the changing landscape of higher ed, doctor Calhoun believes critical dialogue is necessary to equip students for the future of work, which means cultivating adaptive learners who can thrive in a world that is increasingly volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. Doctor Calhoun's leadership career spans colleges and universities in the northeast from public, private, urban, suburban, small and large institutions with enrollments from 2,000 to more than 20,000 students. This experience includes public research universities, small private liberal arts, midsize Catholic universities to a predominantly online state university. Doctor Calhoun is a graduate of Rutgers University where he earned his bachelor's of science while also participating as a full scholarship student athlete on the football team. He also earned his master's of public policy and administration from Cal State Long Beach and a doctorate of education from Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts. Von, welcome to SA Voices. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:01:46]: Hello. How's it going? Thank you for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:48]: It's such a joy for me to be able to meet with guests in person because normally we're across time zones and on a Zoom box and things like that. So I really appreciate you taking time out of your conference to connect with us. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:01:59]: Absolutely. Happy to share anything and answer anything. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: In our theme of transitions, when we got your story for casting, we just looked at it and went, we really wanna talk to you. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:07]: Okay. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:07]: Because your story, I think, is kind of unique in the world of student affairs, but also unique in that you've kind of been in a lot of different spaces before figuring out that your space, your professional purpose is here. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:20]: Absolutely. It took me a while. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:21]: So we know you're at Seton Hall now. We always like to know how you got to that seat, but we'd love for you to trace that journey through the beginning of sport. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:29]: Wow. No. That's just fantastic question. And, you know, my journey, it's something that I could not have mapped out. Yep. It it was something that really took shape while I was a student athlete. I played football at Rutgers. And in my 1st year at Rutgers, I blew my knee out. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:45]: And that was one of those things that you always think that happens to somebody else. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:50]: Yeah. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:02:50]: But when it happens to you, it's kinda like, oh my god. Like, it's happening. And not long after that, my head coach, he was fired. So these 2 big life moment events happened within 3 or 4 months of each other. And while I was at Rutgers, to compound that, at least at the time, I was steered into a major because it was athletic friendly. And that set me up on a course for not necessarily focusing as much as I probably should have on academics. And once I finished at Rutgers, I always tell people I graduated there, but I wasn't necessarily educated there. And that's a huge difference. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:03:22]: And it took me a while to kind of contextualize, well, what happened to me? And it wasn't until I read the book, The 40,000,000 Dollar Slave, The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of the Black Athlete, that really put it into context for me. And in particular, this book, it talks about the conveyor belt theory. Essentially, you have these institutions who go into black and brown neighborhoods and extract raw black or brown talent. And you're put on this figurative conveyor belt. And when you're on this belt, 1, you never know you're on the belt until you're off the belt. And the thing with the belt is there's always someone in front of you and someone behind you. Mhmm. And you move along this belt, and you get off the belt because you blow your knee out. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:03:58]: You aren't as good as they thought you were. And the consensus is next person up. And when the next person is up, you're essentially out. And when I read that, I was like, oh my god. I was a part of a system in which I didn't know until I read that. I was like, oh, that's what happened to me. And in that process, I was still trying to figure out, well, who am I now without sport? Because sport was something that I identified with since I was 6, 7 years old. And now here I am 21, 22 years old and it and it's over. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:04:25]: So now it's this journey of recreating myself. Like, who am I? And that led me on to going through a 1000000 different types of jobs. My first job out of college was shredding paper. Literally, shredding paper. I went back from my old school district and we were going from paper student records to electronic student records. This is 2004. And here I am, these boxes and boxes of student records. I'm literally scanning and shredding. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:04:50]: Wow. Scanning and shredding for 8 hours a day. I'm like, what the heck am I doing? And it gave me a lot of time to think in the process, and then that's when I decide, okay. I wanna go and try to be an authentic student. Go get my masters. It didn't really matter what it was. I just wanna explore this other piece of me that I didn't feel that I fully tapped into. So I ended up getting my or going to Cal State University Long Beach. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:13]: I'm originally from California. Going to Cal State Long Beach and I did my master's in public policy. And that's when I just started reading not just books on public policy, but just all types of books. Trying to figure out who am I in relation to the world. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:25]: So you invested in your education for yourself. Absolutely. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:28]: And during this process, there were so many things that I didn't realize about the world, about myself. And also in trying to find out who I am, I started taking on even more jobs. So I sold copy machines door to door in Los Angeles. And that was just something that I think everyone should try sales at least once. Just the experience of walking up to somebody and trying to sell something. Mhmm. And I remember I had this whole script. And my thing was walking into business parks and knocking on doors and saying, hey. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:05:55]: Can I talk to the person in charge of document management? And they're like, what's document management? And that was my end. Once you ask me a question, I can give you my spiel. So that was an experience. I even got put on a do not enter list because I was very persistent. And I kept going back and back and back trying to get the business. And then from there, I thought, okay. Maybe I wanna be an attorney. Maybe so then I took LSATs. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:15]: And then I said, well, maybe I might not wanna be an attorney. I might wanna be a police officer. I was driving down the 405 Freeway in Los Angeles, and there's this huge billboard that said LAPD hiring starting pay with a master's degree, $70,000. So I drove home, went online, put in my application, got called back for the written exam, and then got called back for the physical exam. And after I took my physical exam, it was about a 8 month period where it's just background check. In that time, I found me another job. I started working in insurance. And it was just this whirlwind of trying to figure myself out, but it wasn't until I had this one interesting interaction at Borders bookstore. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:50]: Remember Borders? It was like, Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:52]: oh, yeah. Mini Barnes and Noble. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:06:53]: Yeah. It was like it was like, you know, it was like Nike Reebok is Barnes and Noble's Borders. And I love Borders. But I walked in one day and this older gentleman looked like Bernie Sanders. Right? And he says, hey, did you play Rutgers? I'm like, mind you, I'm in Long Beach, California. How in the world does this guy know I played? And I barely even played. But I had a Rutgers Football t shirt on. He's, oh, okay. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:07:12]: He says, oh, it must have been a fantastic experience. Right? So, you know, older gentleman. So I sit down and have a conversation with them. And at the end of the conversation, you know, after I share my story with him, he goes, I can see it now. Vaughn Calhoun, athletic director, USC, Stanford, University of Texas. I'm like, oh, I've never even thought about myself in that way. Right? And he was the first gentleman, the first person who kinda put in my mind that I can maybe fix college athletics or do something about it because my experience as a student athlete wasn't the greatest one. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:42]: He was a total stranger. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:07:43]: Absolutely. Total stranger. Did did know him, but we spent at least an hour with each other. And subsequently, we kept talking, kept meeting with each other and he even introduced me to his network who was a sitting athletic director in Los Angeles. So he said, hey, I want you to meet my buddy. I'm like, okay. So now there's this whole world of college athletics on the administration side that I didn't know exist. Well, I knew it existed, but I didn't know, like, that was a path that I could take. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:08:06]: So now this is 2,008. I just got married and if you recall, we had the financial meltdown and crisis in the world was just going in bad places. And I decided in that period of time that I'm gonna leave my job and move across the country to pursue my doctoral degree. And everyone thought I was nuts. Even my parents, like, what are you doing? You're leaving because at the time, I was working at for a local government agency making, you know, pretty decent money. And I said, you know what? The money at that time money's important, but it wasn't important. Right? I said, this is the thing that I wanna do because I said, I wanna understand how a college works and where does athletics fit within an institution of higher education so I can be an athletic director and fix it. And then here I am moving to Boston. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:08:49]: Literally, set my car, My wife and I are now newlyweds in Boston. And I remember as I'm going through this transition, I get to my last year of my doctoral program, and my dean and I get very friendly. And he says to me, listen, Vaughn. I know what you're trying to do. You wanna fix college athletics, but the way that you feel about it, 1, are they gonna let you in? And 2, if they do let you in, do you have to uphold the system in which you don't believe in? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:14]: I was like, oh, dang. Those are some great questions. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:16]: That's a hard hard dissonance to deal with. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:18]: And I was like, what do I do? He said, well, I have door number 2. I said, well, what's door number 2? He said, you can teach. I said, who the heck am I gonna teach? And he said, listen, because my dissertation was on student athletes who were academically clustered, steered into a major because it was athletic friendly. It was a qualitative research study looking at the lived experience of student athletes who were clustered. So he says, I want you to come into my undergraduate class and just give a presentation on it. Right? So I said, okay. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:42]: So I did it once, did it twice, and then he says, do you feel comfortable with that now? I said, yeah. I feel pretty good because the students were very engaging. I was like, oh, this this is teaching, Oh, I can do this. He says, okay. Now I want you to start applying to faculty jobs. I was like, oh. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:53]: Oh, he's pathwaying you. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:09:54]: I was like, oh, you we didn't say I was like and he said just start applying. So I was like, alright. Let me start applying. So here I am, and now I'm sitting in these faculty interviews. And, hate to say this, even when I was in college, I didn't read my first book until spring semester senior year, cover to cover. So now here I am in these faculty interviews talking about my academic and teaching philosophies and all these things. And, you know, not in my distant past, I was that student who was just kind of out there and and not being a real student. Right? So I get a callback and says, you're hired. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:10:27]: I was like, oh, wow. Right? And that was just, you know, my pathway into higher ed working for a business department, at a small private liberal arts outside of Boston. And as I'm going through this, it really just, one, changed the way that I just thought about just myself in this phase of just recreation that I could create a new identity outside of just sports. But interestingly, I had a buddy who was moving from Maryland up to Boston at this one particular college. And I've heard of it. I drove past it every day. I didn't know much about it. And this college had a black male sitting college president. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:03]: I was like, that's pretty awesome. You don't really see that in particular within, like, Massachusetts. Mhmm. So I just Google searched him and he had these interviews and articles. So he's a really dynamic individual. So literally, on a Saturday morning, pulled my phone out, saw he had a Twitter, I tweeted at him. I was like, hey, you inspire me. And a few minutes later, he tweeted back. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:24]: He was like, thanks. So like, oh, you answered your old tweets. This is awesome. So I said, hey. Can I so now now I was like, okay? He I got him engaged. So I said, this is my opportunity. So I said, okay. I tweeted again, can I have the informational interview? Right? And I heard nothing. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:37]: I was like, oh, okay. You know, people are busy Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:39]: you know. Shot. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:40]: Right? Yeah. I'm gonna shoot You know, either 1 or 2 things can happen. You make it or you miss it. Yeah. But 2 weeks later, I get an email from his executive assistant that says, you know, the president wants to meet you. I was like, oh, this is awesome. So now this is August 2015. So I go sit in the president's office. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:11:56]: We were there for 3 hours literally. Wow. Just talking about his career, how he did what he did, why he did it, talked about myself, what I wanna do, what I think I wanna do. And in that meeting, he said to me, you can be a college president. I was like, woah. Again, right, just having these individuals, I couldn't plan for that. Right? So a few months later or within this interim period, we would text and talk. He introduced me to his network, and my job's August 20 15. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:12:21]: So a few months later, December 2015 and again, we never talked about jobs. Just philosophy about life and stuff. And he says, I wanna offer you a job. I want you to work for me. I was like, oh, okay. I got a job over here, but I like what you're saying just in terms of just his energy and enthusiasm. So I went and worked for this guy, and he would literally bring me into meetings I had no business being in. He hired me as an an assistant professor, which eventually I I was elevated to the chair of the chair of the department sitting as a faculty chair. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:12:51]: But I would go into these executive cabinet meetings and literally just sit on the wall with, you know, all the other VPs and they're all kinda looking at me, like, why is this guy here? And after every meeting, we would just have conversation about, okay, this is what's happening. This is why I said this, this, that, and the third. And, you know, this just happened, you know, over the next few years. And in this period of time, you know, he would bring me, like, literally into his, like, his personal life. Right? You know, he would bring me into his home with my wife and my son, you know, and and talk with his family, his wife, his kids. It it just became this this really awesome dynamic. And one day I just asked him, like, why are you doing this? Because he was just so generous. And he said, because someone did it for me. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:13:30]: I just asked that you do this for somebody else. I was like, I got you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:33]: Paying it forward in mentorship. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:13:35]: Absolutely. Right? So, and one of the things he said, by you working for me you're gonna know the questions to ask. I was like, I don't know what that means. So as I'm going up from my first AVP position, I was able during the interview to really diagnose and break down some of the nuances and ask these very specific questions. And I ended up getting the job, and I remember calling him after the final interview. He was like, I understand what you mean. I knew the questions to ask. Right? And I think those questions help separate me in terms of just how I looked at the position. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:14:06]: But, you know, it was just through these events and people, I couldn't have planned this out. And when I talk about this transition, it's just a lot of constant movement but being open to that movement. Being open to being vulnerable. Being open to saying, okay. I don't know what this is, but I wanna explore it. And that's one of the things that I share with a lot of my mentees. It's put yourself out there. Ask those questions because if you don't ask, you're not gonna know. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:14:29]: So I think these are the these things that we don't often talk about in particular, leaning into your network, finding those mentors. And I think mentorship becomes very cliche, like, find a mentor, have this mentor, but, no, really build those authentic relationships. And that has helped me tremendously. I couldn't be in this position without those individuals or it would have took me much much longer to sit in the seat at Seton Hall. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:50]: That is an extraordinary journey from being a d one football player to weaving your way through to this dean of students path now. Do you still see yourself on that pathway to a college presidency? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:15:02]: I aspire to higher leadership and I know that sometimes we're in such a hurry to get there. But in getting there, you're learning so many lessons. Even in in these past few years, I've learned so many lessons just about myself, about how to manage and lead people. Mhmm. So I definitely see myself on that trajectory and I definitely wanna get there. But one thing someone told me is like don't rush the process. Right? The process is the process. You know, you don't wanna end up getting there and not being ready for it. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:15:31]: So I'm very mindful of that and and making sure that I'm putting myself in positions to sit on different committees, to be a part of conversation that make me a little uncomfortable. Like, oh, I don't know too much about the nuances of finance and budgeting, but let me sit there with it. And I think if I continue doing these things, doing good work, opportunities will present itself. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:49]: You've had a nontraditional education path into student affairs itself. How did you get yourself up to speed with all of the student affairs literature and practice knowing you come from that MPP background, that faculty end. And student affairs for those of us who've kind of been in the field a while, I think there's generally a point of frustration when we see someone who's come from a pathway that didn't include that student development foundation, and then all of a sudden we're being led by this person. So how did you come from that place of humility while still bringing your expertise that you definitely had in the public policy space? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:16:20]: Yeah. I think one thing for me is I know that I don't know, and I'm not afraid to tell folks that I don't know that I need your help. And I think when you lead with that, folks typically look at that as a point of humility. I'm not gonna say I know more than you. Because truth is, you know, any new job that you walk into, folks who are there know more than you about that particular institution. So earlier in my career, part of what I did was I was an assistant athletic director for 3 and a half, 4 years at a small private liberal arts and reported up to the dean of students and we were housed within student affairs. So I was always a part of those a lot of my job was around the student success on the athletic side, but it was for a division 3 institution. Mhmm. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:05]: So the dynamics are a little bit different than division 1 where the emphasis on division 3 is the whole student. And division 1 does that, but I think more so like division 3, it is just part of the culture and fabric of we know that. More times than not, no one's turning pro. That's not what our goal is. We're not trying to generate revenue in that sense. And then for me, I got into this because I was driven by my own negative experience. Mhmm. So student success and making sure that students are always at the top of mind is something that I always talk about and that I always lead with. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:36]: So when people hear my story and when when people understand why I'm doing what I'm doing, knowing that I have this background that is a little unique, but it's always toward that north star of how are we helping our students. And I think once that gets conveyed and understood, it helps galvanize people. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:51]: How did that student athlete experience inform how you practice in student affairs now? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:17:56]: Being a student athlete, at least at the time, I felt that I wasn't heard, wasn't necessarily valued. So anytime I see a student engage with a student, I wanna make sure that they're heard, that they're validated. Because when in particular, if a student reaches my office, usually something didn't go right at some point along the way. Right? And whatever their challenges are is the most important thing to them in that moment. And me being a former just student athlete knowing that I wish I had an advocate, I wish I had someone who could really just stand up for me. I take that mindset. And even when I get these parent calls, knowing that I wish that my parents could have engaged with somebody and someone would have been receptive. So always taking that to heart and make sure that I never forget that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:38]: You've navigated a lot of change very successfully. Change and the mindset that you bring and kind of your philosophy around how you make transitions? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:18:55]: Yeah. You know, change is the really only constant and being open to it. Because I think so many times, generally speaking, folks are opposed to change because you always ask yourself, what does this mean for me? What am I gonna lose versus, well, what could I gain? And I always took the perspective of there are some things that I don't know that I know that I need to experience these things in order to become a better person and to elevate in my career. So if I would just sit back and what's comfortable, I'm not gonna grow. And interestingly, my son, he's 9 years old. And that's one thing that I really try to challenge him with. Right now he's doing Taekwondo and he's on the sparring team. And it can be pretty tough. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:19:30]: He has a really old school hard nose instructor. And my son always talks about, oh, this is getting tough. It's getting tough. I said, no. The tough part means that this is your growth phase. These are when the moments of you're gonna question yourself, but what are you gonna do in those moments? Are you gonna sit back or are you gonna meet the challenges? And that's something as a former student athlete, we couldn't just sit back and be comfortable. Because if we sit back and be comfortable, there's someone else that's working when we're not working. So constantly trying to say, how can we get better? How can we get that edge? Edge? And I take that with changes. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:01]: Things are moving. Right? And if I don't try to keep up with the change or get ahead of the change, we're going to be stunted in some way. And at the end of the day, the students will suffer for it. And I really think about this right, so when we think about AI, and I think one of the first reactions a year or so ago was this is the worst thing in the world. It's going to crush teaching. It's gonna crush learning. In some regards, it might to a certain extent, but also what are the opportunities of helping individuals? What are the opportunities in which we can streamline? And because students are going to enter a world that's AI driven, if we just turn our heads to that and pretend that it doesn't exist, we're doing them a disservice. Mhmm. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:36]: So how can we as a college community, staff, and faculty, educate ourselves so we can best educate our students and talk about it through through the lens of ethics. Talk about it through the lens of how these new technologies, though it could be different and scary, are gonna be the things that they're gonna need to be successful. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:52]: Well, and also AI is just not ChatGPT alone. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:20:56]: Absolutely. And I think Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:56]: that's been kind of the narrative in higher ed, that ChatGPT is the end of academic integrity. But there are also institutions that are using it really well for, like, auto replies when students need information Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:06]: That's right. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:07]: At 2 in the morning. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:07]: That's right. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:08]: Or, you know, texting services or or whatever. So there's lots of cool opportunities, but then there's also ethical issues around copyrights and particularly with arts. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:17]: Correct. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:17]: Things like that, so but I also came aware recently of an AI repository that's cataloging, like, millions of research papers, which will be an incredible resource for doctoral students of the future, which which I wish I had access to when I was doing my doctorate. So it'll make the lit review process faster in some ways, but I think also will start to discourage people from reading whole articles. I mean, let's be honest, we're always skimmers anyway, but but I think that will be a fascinating evolution too. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:41]: Absolutely. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:42]: Do you have any advice for student affairs professionals that are in their own space of transition right now? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:21:46]: I think for anyone in the space of transition, knowing that it's gonna be difficult to a certain extent, but also knowing that if you just stayed where you're at, can you really grow? And sometimes you have to go out and put yourself in those vulnerable positions. As simple as asking for a mentor. Asking someone, will you mentor me? And again, for me, it's they can either say 1 or 2 things. They can say yes, or they can say no, or they don't respond. But what I think, you know, going through transition just knowing, focusing on the process and not the outcome and knowing that the journey will be the journey, whatever that journey, whatever that process is, and just focus on doing good work, Focus on being as authentic as you can, and focus on surrounding yourself with individuals who will speak life and encourage you. And also make sure you have those individuals who tell you the truth because we don't always just want cheerleaders around. We want those individuals say, hey. Can I give you some constructive criticism or some critiques? And that's where you can learn the most so you don't have as many gaps as you would if you didn't have those individuals there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:41]: And if you're able to hear that when it's given. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:22:43]: Yes. Right. You gotta be open to that. Because some people, you know, the the the Eagles can be very fragile, but you have to be able to really take that to say, okay. You know, they're saying this because they wanna help me, not hurt me in most cases. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:54]: Mhmm. I think that can be quite dependent on the, the provider of that advice. Absolutely. Solicited or unsolicited. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:22:59]: And if you don't ask to to solicit something from somebody, why would you listen to someone that you wouldn't solicit information from? So for me, it's making sure that you have good people around you who really care for your best interest. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:10]: Is there anything that you did in a transition that you look back and say, wow, I wish I would've done that a little differently? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:15]: I think it's always hard to gauge what you're gonna walk into. And you have an idea of what a situation is, but you never know what it's going to be until you actually get there. So for me, it's really just ground myself in knowing who I am and knowing my strengths as well as knowing where my gaps are and just being just just very honest with myself about that. And that can be hard for folks. Right? Every time, you know, folks say, you know, I I know all these things and I can do this. And you wanna be that go getter, but also at the same time, just just knowing that constantly learn as much as you can. And learning people, learning programs, and learning processes. Like, those like my 3 p's. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:23:51]: I wish I would've known that about 10 years ago, but every institution, there's people, there's programs, there's processes. Learn those as quickly as you can. Mhmm. And knowing that the process, again, will be the process. And have a lot of those informal conversations as much as you can and just getting to really know individuals as individuals. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:09]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:15]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot of things happening in NASPA. There's a brand new Leadership Exchange Magazine that recently came out for spring 2024. And if you've never read the Leadership Exchange, you definitely should. The Leadership Exchange is the magazine for all of our chief student affairs officers that NASPA puts out a number of times throughout the year. And this Springs Leadership Exchange Magazine is focused around preserving campus discourse. Inside of this magazine, you're going to see some amazing articles throughout the entire magazine that do talk about campus discourse and what you can do on your own campus to be able to protect free speech on your campus. There are some articles about visibility and promoting Afro Latinx students, understanding professional certification, and how you can elevate your own division through professional certification, and also talking about some of the stories of student affairs and also talking about some of the stories within student affairs. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:14]: These magazines are not just written for vice presidents for student affairs. So don't let that turn you away from learning, from reading this and taking out of it some amazing kernels of knowledge. You can access this on the NASPA website. Go to the NASPA website, click on public publications, and you'll see the Leadership Exchange is one of the publications that is available to you as a member. Also, there's a few other NASPA books that I wanted to share with you that you may find very helpful on your own campuses and in the work that you do. 1st and foremost is a book called Small and Mighty Student Affairs at Small Colleges and Universities. This book explores critical opportunities and challenges at higher education institutions with fewer than 5,000 students. Written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, written by a diverse group of seasoned campus leaders, this comprehensive text covers a range of topics relevant to higher education and student affairs while providing detailed insights and action to take for and in support of to take for in support of and alongside students at small colleges and universities. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:20]: Thriving in the small college culture requires flexibility, collaboration, and the ability to shift rapidly within the changing environment of higher education. Small and Mighty offers thoughtful strategies and insights to help student affairs professionals identify innovative solutions, innovative solutions to some of the most pressing issues facing small colleges and universities today. This book was written by Carol Livingston, Krista Porter, and Thomas Shandley and it is a amazing book for anyone working at a small college or university. And I highly encourage you to pick up a copy today. Now this season we've been talking about transitions and one of the big transitions that many student affairs professionals will go through in their career is supervising others. Another book that is available is called Supervised Practice Connecting Professional Competency Areas to Professional Development and Student Affairs. Supervised practice has become a hallmark of how the field of higher education and student affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create the conditions necessary for supervised practice and the graduate academic curriculum to be a seamless learning experience. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:27:28]: Becoming a supervisor is a hallmark of how the field of higher education and student affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create affairs prepares future professionals. This book explores how to create the conditions necessary for supervised practice and the graduate academic curriculum to be a seamless learning experience. With a focus on the ACPA and NASPA professional competency areas as the bedrock for enhancing proficiency in the field. This book is designed to introduce the competency areas as they relate to supervised practice in graduate preparation programs. Chapters examine how to design experiences for students in the workplace that align with the ACPA and NASPA professional competency areas, create condition for graduate students to understand the application of theory within the workplace, establish an environment that promotes an understanding of the supervisory role as it relates to socializing and retaining new professionals in student affairs, create learning partnerships that focus on the intersection of individual development and the acquisition of knowledge and skills for administrative practice, develop professional philosophy of practice in the digital age, and assess the professional competency areas within the graduate the graduate practicum and employee experience to ensure learning and development. If you supervise graduate students or want to supervise graduate students in the future as they prepare to be professionals in the field, a brand new book called Supervised Practice Connecting Professional Competency Areas to Professional Development and Student Affairs is definitely a book you wanna pick up. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:00]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:22]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us informed on going on in and around NASPA. And, Vaughn, we have now reached our lightning round. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:28]: Awesome. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:29]: I have 7 questions for you in 90 seconds. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:32]: Oh, alright. I'll do I'll do my best. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:34]: Bring out your competitive story. Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:41]: Oh, my god. Oh, jeez. It would be something with, my favorite artist. One of my favorite artist is Jay z. I don't know what, but something within his catalog. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:50]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:30:53]: I wanted to be a San Francisco 49er. I wanna be just like Jerry Rice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:58]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:00]: Oh, that would be Dr. Robert Johnson, the current president of Western New England University. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:06]: Number 4. Your essential student affairs read. Anything that deals with student success. Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:14]: Oh, Ballers with Dwayne Rock Johnson. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:17]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:21]: Steven Bartlett, The Diaries of a CEO. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:23]: And finally, number 7. Any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:27]: Absolutely. I love to shout out my wife who's always been there for me, who's been a constant truth teller, but in a very loving way. And I'll also shout out my son. He's 9 years old. He keeps me young, and he keeps me on my toes as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:40]: Von, it's been just a joy to get to know you today. I'm very grateful that you took some time out of your conference to speak with us here on SA Voices. And if others would like to speak with you after the show, how can they find you? Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:31:50]: They can find me on LinkedIn, Vaughn Calhoun, or they can find me at my email, Vaughn.calhoun@shu.edu. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:58]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice and your story with us today. Dr. Vaughn Calhoun [00:32:01]: Thank you for having me. I appreciate you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:05]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us atsa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:46]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

At ACPA's 100th Anniversary Celebration held in Chicago, the hosts of Student Affairs NOW reflected on their respective journeys working together in developing, producing, and hosting a podcast as a form of public scholarship. The team shared behind-the-scenes stories of what it's like working together, discussed the expected and unexpected learnings during the growth of the podcast, and shared their reactions as Student Affairs Now reached the impressive milestone of 200 episodes in 2024. This episode was recorded at ACPA as part of a conference presentation.

Empowering Student Voices:  The Digital Transformation The use of social media in higher education has evolved from a platform for personal expression to a crucial tool for professional development and student engagement. Dr. Josie Ahlquist shared her expertise on digital leadership, emphasizing how social media gives students and educators alike the power to craft their own narratives. Gone are the days when online behavior was solely interpreted through a lens of fear; instead, we must encourage responsible and purposeful digital engagement. Revolutionizing Campus Culture: From Traditional to Trailblazing The episode highlighted the need to transcend traditional roles and embrace the flexible, interconnected nature of campus culture. The drive to humanize the workplace converges with the desire to inspire meaningful mentorship and collaboration, both within student affairs and across various campus departments.  A Visionary Approach to Student Engagement Dr. Alquist's curriculum, based on the social change model, teaches students to harness social media's potential for advocacy, community building, and change. Meanwhile, Dr. Jill Creighton's research brings to light the positive impact of social media on academic success, further advocating for its inclusion in student support strategies. Leading by Example: The Entrepreneurial Leap in Higher Education Chronicling her journey from campus professional to CEO, Dr. Alquist offers a candid look at the challenges and mental health tolls of entrepreneurial endeavors. Her experience underscores the importance of self-reflection, support systems, and the willingness to take risks - foundational elements that redefine professional growth in student affairs. An Invitation to Shape the Future Dr. Ahlquist and Dr. Creighton invite you to reflect on their own relationship with social media and its integration into higher education, encouraging continuous adaptation to the digital habits of a new generation of students. This conversation not only serves as a call to action for today's educators but a bridge to the untapped potential of tomorrow's student affairs landscape.   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, essay voices. Welcome back for our next episode, and I'm going to be bringing back something that we haven't done in a little while, which is a crossover episode with another podcast. You'll hear us talk about this in the heart of the show, but we are doing a crossover today with doctor Josie Alquist's podcast called Josie and the podcast. So the part one of this conversation drops on her show feed, and this is part 2 of that conversation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:48]: But first, let me introduce you to Josie. Dr. Josie Alquist guides educational leaders, organizations, and students to practice purpose full digital leadership through speaking, coaching, and consulting. Her practical evidence based frameworks empower clients to build and implement a digital engagement strategy that fits their life, audience, and purpose. Josie's work is grounded in the grant funded and award winning research that has allowed her to train 1,000 around the globe as a speaker, providing consulting services to institutions and companies, and coach professionals in branding, voice, and positioning. Josie's work has appeared in the Handbook Student Affairs Dialogues on Equity, Civility, and Safety. She also served as a co editor and author of The New Directions in Student Services volume, Engaging the Digital Generation and the New Directions in Student Leadership Volume, Going Digital in Student Leadership. In 2023, Dr. Alquist was selected as a NASPA pillar of the profession, one of the highest honors in our field in student affairs. She's a 3 time LinkedIn top voice in education and has been recognized by EdTech Magazine as one of the top 50 must read higher education technology blogs for 5 years. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:02]: Her podcast, Josie and the Podcast, has been featured by the Chronicle of Higher Education and Inside Higher Ed. Her new book, Digital Leadership in Higher Education, Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World, was listed as number 1 on Amazon's new release list for college and university student life. She received her EDD in education from Cal Lutheran and an MED in counseling from Northern Arizona with a BA in psychology and human development and family studies from South Dakota State University. Prior to her independent path, Josie spent nearly 15 years on college campuses in areas of student leadership, student activities, residence life, and student affairs communications and marketing. She previously served as a research associate and instructor at Florida State University Leadership Learning Research Center, where her curriculum builds digital literacy and leadership skills for undergraduates to doctoral students. For more information about Josie's research, speaking, coaching, and consulting, you can find her at www.josiealquist.com. That's josiea hlquist.com. You can also connect with Josie on Instagram, LinkedIn, X, and Facebook. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:07]: Josie, I'm so excited to continue our conversation. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:03:10]: I get, like, a half day with you today. It is so delightful. I need this every month. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:15]: And this is a double episode because Josie just interviewed me on her show, which dropped yesterday. Do you wanna plug that real quick? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:03:24]: So my podcast is Josie and the podcast, and I get to interview amazing guests like Jill and talk about the intersection of marketing, communication, social media, and how to be a human on and offline. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:37]: How to be a human. That is a lesson that we are all continually relearning, I think. It's hard. It's hard. But it's a joy to have you on the show today because you have such an incredible breadth of experience in higher education both as an on campus professional and as a campus partner. As I mentioned in your bio, you recently received the Pillar of the Profession award, which is tremendous. You've authored a book. You've built an entire business that works directly with higher education. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: But it didn't all start there. And so looking forward to hearing more about all of your transitions in career and the choices that you've made along the way to stay connected and anchored into the student affairs profession while serving a gap, that definitely exists in our profession. Let's start at the beginning. How did you find your way onto campus? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:04:27]: Well, the minute I step foot on a campus, whether if it was a tour or where I ended up going to college at South Dakota State, I was hooked. The talents were in and I was one of those freshmen probably on a coffee table yelling, I love college. And, I don't go on coffee tables anymore because that could really hurt my knees. But I just absolutely loved it. The energy, the exploration, the exploration, the involvement, and had really great mentors that were like, well, Chelsea, it's not all the fun stuff of being an orientation leader. There's there's actually a lot of, you know, operations, but I found my way through that too. And also found my way as social media arrived on our campuses that I was really comfortable playing in the sandbox along with a lot of a lot of change. So from my roots in student affairs over 12 years at different campuses, I'm based in Los Angeles. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:05:23]: My last institution was Loyola Marymount and I also have always education is such a core identity of who I am and, values. Early on, my mom or my grandma and grandpa saying you gotta get your education, kid. And I just always knew I wanted to get my doctorate. And so the doctorate was kind of a spark that started a fire. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:05:48]: I didn't ever realize. I can pause there. I can keep going. I don't know. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:53]: Well, your dissertation I think we share this in our stories that our dissertations really led to career changes, which is fascinating. Your dissertation was on social media behavior with undergraduate students. What did you learn from that? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:06:06]: I still feel like I am a interpreter of culture and generations and the internet And around 2013 is when I started my program, and then it was a very it was packed a diminished view of students' use of technology and especially for student leaders, I would hear a lot of talk about assuming students were doing the worst things possible online and I wasn't seeing that with my students. It went against, I feel like, who we are as practitioners that we're putting all this work into empowering them and giving them the tools and we know developmentally and you worked in conduct, you get it, you see that process, but we were making a lot of assumptions out of fear and so I wanted to know what were they really doing online, if it was as bad as we thought or not, because this also was the time where it was super black and white. Do not even look at your student stuff, don't let them connect with you. Some places, you still couldn't even have accounts as departments. It was it was very much scare tactics. And, honestly, that was one of the discoveries in my focus groups. Students would talk about their whole lives that they were educated about social media with fear. To catch a predator came up. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:41]: Oh, yeah. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:07:42]: Like, literally. And what was also so fascinating was they learned lessons based upon how the people in their lives older than them were making mistakes and or their peers, so they were just having to learn this stuff on the flight. Like, imagine dropping Josie, who grew up in Wyoming, on the 405 in LA without ever of driving in in a city before. You woulda had to tow my car out of there. I'm sorry. I just didn't have those skills, and sometimes that's what we're doing and or telling me before I get to LA how it you're gonna adapt you're not gonna make it unless you do x y z, and that kinda broke my heart a little bit. Like, again, we give so much and it's not even about, like, positive psychology but just tell them what to do then. What do you want them to do online? Like, they were so desperate that then they would say, well, this is how my RD, I've noticed, uses Facebook. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:08:36]: So maybe that's how an adult does Facebook even though there is no one way. We know that. Right? We get to make a million choices and so what came from that was a set of curriculum. I wanted to be able to share. I'm a I'm a sharer and this could be a framework you could teach your students And that also is what led then to me speaking to a lot of students in a new way because a lot of times they'd come to, like, my keynote or it to, like, get on LinkedIn or start a blog, share my story. No one told me I could share, but in a purposeful way. So I use the social change model as the framework in both the curriculum, but also what I was looking for. If the student leaders that we were putting so much investment in, if they were actually using those skills on social. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:09:37]: And I think the individual skills was definitely shown. Group skills are more harder. It was the time of the ice bucket challenge, so there was that kind of expression. Yeah. But overall, with a couple exceptions, they were they were using these tools in productive ways and I still think that holds true today that we need to give youth more credit than I think we're just assuming other tool. And so I just really got on a soapbox, Jill. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:03]: If it's a topic you're passionate about, this is good. But I'll give a shout out to doctor Jason Foster, Positive Use of Social Media and Their Academic Success. And that was kind of similar to what you were seeing, a time where I was using social media to connect and build relationships with people. This is before it was a dumpster fire all the time, I think. And we were hearing the narrative that social media was so bad. And so we thought we wanted to contribute to the literature in a way that reflected, well, there's obviously some benefits here. Let's talk about them. And we found that students were using social media to be academically successful in group projects, which was a really interesting twist. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:48]: And, you know, we ended up getting cited in the handbook of qualitative research, I think, or social media research, something like that. And I was like, wow. I didn't think this was that profound, but it's nice to Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:10:58]: This is blowing my mind because I'm fairly positive I cited that paper. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:03]: And now That's really funny. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:11:04]: Source because I'm like, wait. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:11:08]: That's amazing. And but I think the one lesson looking back because it was so extreme that there was this negativity. I stayed in that positive, purposeful place because we know now 10 years later, there are so many ethical issues and concerns and things that need to change and are problematic that things are different. 10 years cycle. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:31]: So let's talk about those transitions then because Yeah. In in our theme of transitions, we've seen all sorts of things from our guests in different personal transitions. But one of the transitions I appreciate from your perspective is this longitudinal arc of how students are using social media, what the concerns are from different generations of students with social media use, and the trends that you're seeing for how student affairs professionals can actually connect with students because I know they don't want us on TikTok. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:12:02]: They do if you meet the culture and the content for that platform. If you show up like you would in an email or on LinkedIn, give them the ick. Like, let that you know, it'd be cringe and I think this is where the concept of time right now kind of blows my mind. I feel like I'm still in my thirties, that I am full blown ahead in my forties. Right? And the longer we're in these positions and we see lots of students come and go, but we can sometimes forget how much has changed in 10 years. So the students in my study, and a lot of them I'm still connected with and some of them are higher ed pros now, they are now full into millennials and we still are thinking about those students and sometimes communicating like those are still our students and meeting them on platforms that we were for example, Facebook groups were big back then. We still have people trying to keep Facebook groups alive for 1st year students, like class of whatever. I'm like, honey, they're on Discord. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:13:03]: They've made a subreddit of you already. The pacing is so much different of these other platforms and so that needs, our side needs to change. They've also grown up even further back than the students in my studies. So as early as when they were born, potentially, the second they came out, they had a paper trail, Good or bad? And we are also seeing more students come or preteens, teens, young adults having more frustrations that then they didn't get say in what their digital identity was early on and or we are also seeing them double down and become influencers on different platforms whether that's a micro influencer just talking about makeup or running or a million other things And so, we might be inviting new students to our campuses. They have influence that we didn't in college in addition to access, so lots of communications. I do think that education and curriculum has improved but honestly the majority of it is their own self. Education and peer education tends to be always some of the strongest factors. I think the other thing that's also who grew up with social media early in their careers and so now they are their own kind of digital natives in executive roles. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:14:35]: I had previous vice presidents that wouldn't touch any tools, let alone know what they are or be willing to access them. So I think 2 things are happening at once, both what our students are doing and what it's impacting our profession and future leaders use or even misuse. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:52]: We are all over the place as a profession in terms of our level of comfort with having a digital identity or digital footprint, as well as our level of capacity or skill base for how that's going for folks. You know, some of us are all in on all platforms. Some of us are partway in on some platforms and all in on others. And some of us are like, you just said Discord. What is that? So there's a level of all of these things. Right? Like, I'm on Discord. I'm on Slack. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:21]: I'm in the YouTube space. TikTok was banned in the country I was last in, so couldn't be on there. But Douyin was allowed, which is, like, the counterpart in the country. But there's also social media that is huge in other parts of the world that a lot of Americans have never heard of or use. Like, WeChat is, like, a tool of life Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:15:39]: Oh, yeah. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:40]: In a lot of Asia. Yes. And and you can't function without a WeChat account. It's where all the information is. So given all of this major big landscape, how would you recommend that student affairs professionals who want to gain digital skills and don't necessarily feel like they know how to do that go about the process. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:15:59]: I think just like how our students are sorting it out and how we seek out mentors and sponsors is to find those yourself. And the nice thing is you can just kind of lurk and scroll on your own, but I do highly encourage people to actually reach out, right? Like if someone aspires to be like you, I aspire to be like you, Joe. But I have a podcast or again, like, working internationally, like, reach out. Use the access not just for the likes and comment. That is my number one advice when students are doing their doctorate or masters. You have a secret sauce that somehow gets taken away after you graduate is that you just say you're a student, people will take your calls more often for guidance and mentorship and so I called up a lot of the people I was citing or just people that were talking a lot about social media and tech to ask some questions and now they're some of my closest colleagues and even friends. And so I guess my advice is you have to take it offline. You really do have to take the relationship piece. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:17:01]: The tools can be a spark, but they are not the source to keep it sustainable. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:07]: You wrote a book recently that was listed as number 1 for new college releases, which is very exciting, on Amazon, Digital Leadership and Higher Education, Purposeful Social Media in a Connected World. Now I don't want you to have to rehash your whole book, but I'm wondering if you have nuggets for professionals who are aspiring to increase their professional digital presence, both for their campuses and for the field. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:17:31]: Write the book. If you wanna write the book, make sure it's in the right place. The reason why you think you want to write a book, my number one piece of advice is write it with someone else. Or it might be great, maybe I was the queen of committee work. I loved it. I was good at it but also then I was, like, I just wanna close myself in my office and be alone. A book project where you're already with working with so many people, it might be a glorious thing for you to get to do something on your own. I would also say just like you need to rearrange the furniture of your life when you do your doctorate, a book will be the same that you will need to and or it's just not gonna get done. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:18:09]: And I would say what I have learned is make it a living thing. What I don't like about books is then they are printed and you can't change it like you can on the Internet. Mhmm. And my book is already very outdated. And I have to think about how do I keep contributing to that topic or leave it entirely and or what is the future versions of it, whether if it's me that's contributing or other people. And I think maybe that's just a lifelong learner in me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:38]: So now let's jump back because you are one of the most, I think, beautifully present people in the campus partner space. We know you well. We see you often. We see you engage with professionals both on and off campus. But that transition was, I think, a scarier leap when you made it than I think it's a little more common now. Tell us about making the determination to discontinue campus based work and, as you put it, accidentally build a business. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:19:08]: Yes. I think I blogged about this and shared a bit on my podcast, but I think it's good to share the full breadth of the story. I mean, not too long. I swear. I won't be too long winded because it was difficult not just in the doing but the unweaving and rebuilding of my identity. And so it started with applying for a position that I did not receive that was gutting and required me to reconsider and it was an internal position. And I looked around and I there was nowhere else on campus that I could see myself which also scared the heck out of me because I was 6 months into a doc program. I was like, well, is this place even for me? And my husband and I were out for a run. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:19:51]: I all of a sudden just start crying uncontrollably. He's like, did you fall? And he knew I was kind of having a hard time. And he's like, we're okay. Like, what if you just did school? And I'm like, who you. I've been working since I was 12. Work is my identity. I grew up in a low income and middle class family in Wyoming. My grandparents are all ranchers. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:20:13]: Like, work is what we do. It was never even a consideration of not doing. I sat on it for a couple of months and it started to grow on to me. So, honestly, it even started with the idea and so that might resonate with some listeners of what it means to just do school full time and not be contributing to your family or needing to take out other resources, that that internal struggle is real and validated. But then what I didn't anticipate was leaving my job then and the excitement and the going away parties that then went away in 2 months and I completely was in a free fall. My mental health, you know, you can that I discovered panic attacks and anxiety? And I've always, I think, had anxiety, but it cracked open, again, just doing school. And I had busied myself so much. Again, queen of committees. Put me in everything. Do everything. Output. So I blogged every day for 50 days and just poured myself into Twitter now x, where I found a community where student affairs used to be very active Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:21:30]: Of colleagues, friends, and just continue to go there. That was, like, my water cooler. And by the time I graduated, I was already starting to get invited to do speaking because I was blogging my coursework and you could still do this. Set up a substack and share what you wrote about on Black board, like or it literally could be, this is a quote from my paper that you did because that's how I just started to share the work I was doing. I was still terrified that what I was doing wasn't real or worthy. So I picked up, like, 4 adjunct positions at once and doing some speaking on the side. But I always had this, I need a plan b. So I'm still looking at jobs. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:22:15]: I'm, like, doing the speaker circuit thing. And it wasn't until, honestly, a couple years before the pandemic that I finally said, Josie, you need to make a commitment. Is this a business? Are you in or you're out? Because mentally, it's also tormenting. And so then I did. I've I I mean, I literally took out, like, a license that, you know, like I'm incorporated now and, brought on people to help me. And I just think to acknowledge and not to scare people of, like, you make this transition, there might be mental health impacts, like, things that were kind of already residing that I would say have resources ready for you at the ready and to bet on yourself too. I didn't bet on myself early enough because honestly, I think people listening in higher ed will get this. We're a perfectionist. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:23:07]: We don't want to fail. And I was scared if I called it a business and it didn't make it, then I was gonna be a failure. And that held me back though for what could've and is coming to be. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:19]: You've said a couple of things that I I think are really important to touch back to. And the first is that I think in student affairs, especially, there's a lot of identity wrapped up in the profession, in a job title, in a job function. I think that's partly because the outside world doesn't grasp the profession. And a lot of times, our own families and partners don't grasp the profession, and so we kind of hang on to the identity maybe a little bit tighter than other professions may. And so letting go of that is not just transitioning a career. It's figuring out where that piece of you goes or what happens to it, after you transition. That's a big one. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:23:59]: Well, and some of that is not knowing what box to check. NASCLA only just recently added a consultant membership or, you know, or I wouldn't be able to go to certain things. I had to have a campus affiliation and there was a sense of it wasn't embarrassment but I was very fearful people were gonna see me as an outsider, that I was gonna be cold calling them and so, I also I've always been centered in community and relationships which, so I've been doing sales but in a heart centered way because I need to work. I need to make it. I'm going to make this work. Right? But I had to do a lot of money stuff on weaving some of that money mindset things in order to build a business, that wasn't that was going to be productive. In higher ed very much. There's an entrepreneurship element to your transition and higher ed very much. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:59]: There's an entrepreneurship element to your transition story. I have a friend who researches entrepreneurship. They're an assistant professor in the College of Business, and that's kind of their their area of research. And they have found through their research that the most successful entrepreneurs are the ones who tilt in a 100%, the ones who actually take away their safety net, which is the most terrifying thing that you can do. But it sounds like that's what you did. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:25:23]: Yeah. You should have sent me that article. Yeah. And I think just even not saying I'm my only identity is entrepreneur, but not resisting that. And I don't have an MBA. I swear I don't know what I'm doing half the time on business side, but I'm seeking out different types of mentors. And I'm also finding others, and you're one of them now, in a different type of way that we need our own resources as campus partners in community, in how we can transform the industry too because it needs to be done from the outside. And it's not outside in a negative way. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:25:59]: It's actually more it's gonna be more impact full in the end. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:03]: Let's talk about that transition to being a CEO, so your your own boss and your own employee, but also a person who's driving their own schedule, driving when you work and when you don't, setting your own limits, deciding when enough is enough for a day, a week or a month, that feels really overwhelming to me, just looking at the lack of limit and needing to self impose as a person who also drives with a lot of purpose. How did you figure that out? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:26:30]: Oh, trial and error and lots of therapy and hiring a coach. Mhmm. So I brought on a business coach and you'll just laugh at me what she caught on quickly that I was a workaholic that especially when the business wasn't doing well, to me, you just work more. It's almost like your punishment then. You have to work every single day. And one of her first homework assignments was, she's like, I want you to take every Sunday off. And I looked at her. We negotiated it to one Sunday off a month. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:27:00]: That's what I negotiated it down. I'm embarrassed. Like, I put up such a front that I couldn't even imagine what it would be to not work one day a week or what a month, let alone a whole weekend. And by the time we finished our work together, my husband and I also purchased an RV and I took off 6 weeks. So you can't sometimes we don't see how we are in our own ways. We need people and it doesn't mean you have to pay people to tell you that, but I needed that mirror because at the same time, I was completely this was toward the end of the book and, you know, we're in a pandemic. I was completely crumbling, like, the foundation was so weak and I just kept jumping on the trampoline, like, no, it's not. So I have known I've really I have to prioritize it. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:27:55]: I will edit this because it is a professional podcast. But I may be my own boss, but she can be a real bee sometimes. I have very high expectations of myself. So I need other people to help me make sure I'm staying grounded. And I've also realized that I don't like to work alone and while I'm sacrificing financially, in November, I brought on my very first full time employee which was both terrifying and exciting for someone else to be relying on you. But I'm also so strategically and to wanna grow. And but for some people listening, they might or you've already built your own person shop and that's that can be great too. We all we don't all need to turn into these big agencies or or whatever. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:28:51]: I think that's the other piece that I found. You get to define not only your time, but how you are going to structure your your business. It's so funny when you think about a dissertation is such a recipe card. Sure, you can mess it up, but, like, it is so structured. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:08]: Chapters 1 through 5, maybe 6. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:29:11]: Yeah. And then this is what you write, this is what you say, you've got this feedback. Being an entrepreneur is not a whole bunch of it. And I am a recovering control girly. And sometimes you have to let it go and sometimes you have to be like, what do I want? I could do anything today. Well, not always, but from now, I work at WeWork sometimes or I need to get out of the house more. So I also joined a gym that is right next to WeWork. Giving yourself permission to really pay attention how you work best and how Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:42]: you're gonna best make that impact. Can you talk a little bit about how your views on the profession changed from being a campus based professional to being a campus partner? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:29:51]: Oh, wow. How they have changed. Well, it is nice to see that there is more of a acknowledgment of how the work by partners, by consultants, whatever they're called, are necessary and we're not it's not just about the money or adversarial. That's been just good for my own mental health and where I fit into things. I see much more macro things happening. I mean, we were just talking, before we started recording about we're losing really great people. We that our students need those people. The the mental health weight of this work, it makes me want to do something bigger than my myself or what my business provides. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:30:35]: And so that's why a lot of my work is just trying to put good minds together, whether if that's on a panel, in a Slack channel because I can't do it all, but I just wanna connect all the people to help because it still blows my mind how many people like, they say student affairs is a small world, but it's not. Even people I'm like, wait. You don't know each other? Like, how in the world does this not happen? And that that honestly brings me more joy sometimes than, like, being asked to speak somewhere is that then I get to I mean, it's the same thing with our students, right? We get to go see what they do with the rest of their lives. I would also say it's only to a certain extent, but so many of the challenges you're facing, a million others are on their institutions to like I'm not saying normalize it, but for example, social media, I can anticipate what I'm gonna be finding in consulting or coaching and exec. We we can be so hard on ourselves. We're not far enough along. Our engagement isn't going well. Just hear it from me. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:31:29]: Like, it's all a bit of a struggle. And that could kind of be nice to hear. Like, oh, it's not just me. I feel a little and that's not just with social. It could be a variety of different topic. Oh my gosh. And honestly, what I am finding is and what I'm bummed so bummed about, even in grad school and maybe programs are doing better now. I feel like I was hid from what our admissions and enrollment people really were doing and are up against Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:31:56]: And I think we're having because especially we're seeing student affairs and enrollment pair up but I I don't know if it was the institutions I was at or where I got my grad program but, like, I feel like it was, like, we don't talk about that. That's not your place. You just focus here. And I think that's such a disservice because even when I talk to marketers or enrollment people, I'm like, y'all are y'all are doing the work of student success, right? And even they're not hearing that. Mhmm. So somewhere in our echo chambers, that is being perpetuated to continue and I think the institutions that are doing the best, sure, we've got department names and divisions are we need a collective effort. We obviously all need to do what our work or tasks are meant to do, but it's not doing a service to, like, keep people not understanding how they could make an impact on enrollment. I really appreciate you Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:50]: mentioning that because I think that aligns with a lot of my experiences as well. Even, even sitting in an ADP or a CSAO seat, you know, the enrollment side can have a level of mystique to it. And it's interesting having spent a career in higher education, and I don't think I could advise, a high school student the best way to craft their application for admissions at this point because it is, a, still a little mystical, but, b, because it's different everywhere. And that's that's interesting if you really break it down on how siloed our profession can be within itself sometimes. But when we can connect those things, the power in that is really extraordinary. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:33:34]: Right. Even within in within our campus walls, in different divisions, we we're having similar challenges of retaining a certain type of staff or again, I just I think we're missing out so many ways of going back to the beginning of humanizing the work that we do and workplace challenges in addition to students just want to learn. And no matter what the title of the department is, sometimes that bureaucracy gets in the way. And I once I love social media because it kind of doesn't care. Like, a student's gonna find what they wanna find wherever they're gonna find it no matter what the title is. And if they can't find it on your website because they probably aren't, they're gonna ask on Reddit, and it may or may not be But I would say I am excited. I am energized and I just wanna say one more thing that I haven't said that I especially say to a lot of people that come to me. They're like, I wanna start my own business. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:34:38]: I wanna be a consultant. From the beginning, I had a partner in this with me, And we have gone ebbs and flows of sometimes it's more me, sometimes it's more him in order to do this work. That is a privileged place to be in that I fully acknowledge both financially, emotionally, that I wish people could just do the thing they wanna do immediately. But there were times if I didn't have a partner, I would also have needed another job or 2 to make ends meet. And I think people need to hear it both in an ethical way, but also there are ways that you could start doing speaking consulting immediately. There's no reason that you need to do it fully as a full time thing. That would also be great for you to get experience and to see if that's something that you'd really wanna do because it's not easy either. There's some some gritty parts of it that may not be a good fit. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:29]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:35]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be back in the NASPA world to let you know about some amazing things that are happening in the profession. 1st and foremost, there are a few brand new NASPA books that are in the NASPA bookstore. The first, Student Affairs Professional Preparation, A Scholar Practitioner Guide to Contemporary Topics by Jackie Clark, Jeanette Smith and Associates. This book offers unique insights into critical issues facing higher education and student affairs. It was written by a diverse team of practitioners and faculty. This comprehensive volume serves as both a primer on contemporary topics and a tool for practitioners and students. Some of the chapters in the book address HISA matters that have been central to professional preparation for decades. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:23]: Others concern aspects that are emerging and evolving in unprecedented ways. Each chapter is written by a team consisting of at least 1 practitioner and at least 1 faculty member. This intentional partnership allows for a rich conversation that addresses both professionals in practice and students and faculty in preparation programs. The content can be directly used in practice or to generate critical lively conversations in the classroom. The authors have also included excellent resources for further reading and classroom activity. The second book, Crucial Collaborations, A Practical Framework to Ensure Access, Equity, and Inclusion for students with disabilities. This was written by Neil Lipsitz, Michael Berger, and Eileen Connellberger. Ensuring access and sense of belonging for students with disabilities in higher unique organizational structure, culture, faculty, staff, and students. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:25]: This book presents a cross functional framework that administrators, faculty, access service providers, parents and guardians, and students themselves that can be used in the review and responsibilities of each stakeholder who contributes to positive post secondary experiences for students with disabilities. The groundbreaking framework has many applications, including facilitating student inclusion and socialization, empowering stakeholders through shared knowledge, and assessing the efficacy and effectiveness of institutional programs for students with disabilities. Throughout the book, the authors discuss their personal and professional experiences to animate and operationalize the framework. One other thing that I wanted to share with all of you today is a brand new book in the NASPA book store. It's a book in the NASPA book store called The Business of Student Affairs Fundamental Skills for Student Affairs Professionals written by Larry Mineta and Ellen Jay Consulting. This book is a primer on the fundamental business related aspects of student affairs that all practitioners need to know. Drawing on his 46 year career in higher education, Larry Mineta, the author, presents critical skill sets to better equip student affairs practitioner educators to analyze circumstances, alter environments, invest in structures and programs, and lead campus progress. Topics include financing and budgeting, organizational design, human resources, facilities management, technology, auxiliary operations, legal issues and risk management, crisis management, strategic planning and communications. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:58]: The key takeaways in each chapter provide further guidance to achieve success in the field. For anyone going into student affairs or new to student affairs, you may find that many of the topics in this book may not have been covered in your graduate preparation program or maybe something that you just need more insight into. And this book definitely provides you with that insight. I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA bookstore today and check it out for yourself. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways, because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:40:20]: I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:50]: Chris, thank you so much for keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. We know we just came out of annual conference, but there is still a lot more opportunities for engagement. So I appreciate you letting us know what those are. And, Josie, we have reached our lightning round. I've got 7 questions for you, 90 seconds. Ready? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:10]: Okay. Okay. I'm scared. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:12]: Number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:17]: Well, I am a conference keynote speaker. I have to pick Beyonce's new tunes. Any of the 3 that have come out recently, I think at that point, I wanted to be a swim coach. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:37]: I was a swimmer. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:41:43]: Ed Cabellan. He brought me under his wing early, early days meeting on Twitter, and he sponsored to help me get to my very first ACPA conference to present Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:54]: with him. Number 4, your essential student affairs read. The Chronicle. Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:03]: Why did Tiger King immediately come to mind? It was not the best. It was just the first thing I thought of. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:42:08]: Oh my gosh. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:09]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:13]: Well, it is mine, Josie and the podcast, because of editing and creating. But, my Spotify rap tells me Armchair Expert is, all their different shows are super fun. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:27]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:42:31]: Oh my gosh. I think I'm especially maybe it's from the Barbie, Taylor Swift, Beyonce movement. It's a summer for women and girls, and I am also just, like, on fire about that. So I just wanna give a shout to all the women and girlies listening and, I mean, all gender unconforming identities that we need space and community and and being lifted up. And so I'm doing a lot of different groups and meetups to do things like that, but we're taking over, Jocey. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:00]: I'm so grateful to you for this 2 part episode. Again, part 1 dropped on Josie's podcast, Josie and the podcast. This is part 2 of the conversation. So if you'd like to go back and listen to part 1, go ahead and find her show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you download your podcasts. But, Josie, if folks would like to engage you as a consultant or just have a chat with you, how can they reach you? Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:43:21]: Well, you can find me at josiealquist.com, blogging, podcasting, all of the things. I am on Instagram, LinkedIn threads, x is swirling as it does. And I actually do have a TikTok, but currently it's all reactions to my husband's content, which is epic rap battles of history. So if you want that type of entertainment, you can go there. And as Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:44]: you search for Josie, so that's Alquist with an a h l q right in there. Josie, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Josie Ahlquist [00:43:53]: Thanks for having me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:57]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Cratney. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:44:31]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.  

Two-year colleges, including community, technical, and junior colleges, are focused on access, affordability, and equity; workforce development and career preparation; and serving their community's needs with agility. In this episode, two former chairs of ACPA's Commission for Two-Year Colleges and a current two-year college president discuss the growing student and institutional needs with limited resources and how associations like ACPA can better support professional development and student success in this critical higher education sector.

Welcome to NASPA's SA Voices From the Field Podcast where we delve into discussions that shape the future of higher education and student support. In today's post, we reflect on the poignant insights from Dr. Joisanne Rodgers, Director of Contemporary Student Services at George Mason University, who recently graced our podcast episode. **Bridging Gaps: From First-Gen Student to Student Advocacy** Dr. Rodgers' noteworthy journey from a security-seeking first-generation college student to a beacon for inclusive education mirrors the ambitions of many striving to find belonging within academia's halls. Her multifaceted career path exemplifies how diverse experiences can coalesce into a powerful drive for institutional change. Rodgers' role at George Mason University is not just about administration; it's about forging connections with and for students who have traditionally been on the periphery of college life support structures. **Language Evolution: A Step Toward Inclusion** The evolution from 'non-traditional' to 'post-traditional' student terminology that Dr. Rodgers discusses signifies an important shift in the higher education lexicon. By moving towards more inclusive language, institutions like George Mason University acknowledge the changing demographics of their student bodies and the unique challenges these students face, underscoring a commitment to support that encompasses not just academic, but life success. **A Supportive Community: More Than Just Space** Dr. Rodgers highlights that creating physical and conceptual spaces for students to flourish is paramount. George Mason University's community spaces, unique ambassador positions, and appreciation events underscore an approach that sees students not as secondary participants in their education but as central figures with rich, intricate narratives expanding beyond the classroom. **Post-Traditional Pioneering: A University's Role** The university isn't just leading the charge through in-house initiatives but is contributing to the broader dialogue on supporting post-traditional students, partnering with organizations such as NASPA. These partnerships foster a crucial exchange of best practices and innovative ideas, equipping institutions to better serve their diverse student populations. **Looking Forward** As Dr. Rodgers and many other advocates for contemporary students make clear, universities have an opportunity and responsibility to adapt, evolve, and provide equitable support. This not only benefits post-traditional students but enriches the entire educational community. Their successes aren't just personal triumphs; they are milestones in the progress towards a more inclusive, holistic approach to higher education.    TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Welcome back for our next episode of essay voices from the field, where once again we were able to sit down with a guest at the NASPA annual conference. I'm pleased to introduce you today to doctor Joisanne Rogers, sheher. Joisanne is a first generation college student, a post traditional student, a life long learner, and an educator passionate about post traditional and contemporary students. Doctor Rogers has worked in higher education for nearly 20 years in various roles, including admissions and recruitment, advising and success coaching, housing and residence life, marketing and outreach, retention initiatives, and student success initiatives. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:55]: She currently serves as director of contemporary student services at George Mason University in Virginia. Doctor Rogers leads a fantastic team of advocates and champions, serving Mason's contemporary student population. This team collaborates and partners throughout the Mason community to support contemporary student belonging, thriving and success. The team are proud recipients of the bronze level 2023, 2024, NASPA Excellence Award in commuter, off campus, military connected, non traditional, and related. Doctor Rogers also serves as an adjunct associate professor at University of Maryland Global Campus, where she earned outstanding adjunct faculty designation as an alumni volunteer at Algany College in Pennsylvania. Doctor Rogers earned a bachelor's in political science and dance studies from Alghany College, a master's in student affairs and higher education from Western Kentucky University, a specialist in leadership from American College of Education, and a doctorate in leadership with a focus on higher education from American College of Education. Her research interests include post traditional and contemporary students, mitigation and elimination of institutional barriers, and student success and retention. Welcome to essay voices, Joisanne. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:58]: Thank you. I'm glad to be here. And thank you so much for taking time out of your conference schedule to sit with us here in Seattle. Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:04]: Absolutely. It's delightful rainy weather, So glad to hang out with you for a bit. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:09]: This is my hometown and, you know, people are always like, oh, it must rain a lot in Seattle. I'm like, oh, not really. And I really appreciate that Seattle's like showing out for you all with the rain today. Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:20]: It's true. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:20]: We also may get to be dodging a protest for a different organization today. So, you know, all sorts of eventful things happening in Seattle. Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:28]: Well, coming from DC, I'm I'm a pro.  Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:30]: Oh, the other Washington. Yeah. The other Washington. The other Washington. Joisanne Rodgers [00:02:33]: We got it covered. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:33]: I do when I say I'm from Washington, people go DC and I'm like, no. State. The other other farther away one. But we're really looking forward to learning from you today about your transition story into higher education from an arts background. That's something that you and I share in common. My bachelor's degree is in music performance. And weird fun fact, I used to teach top classes to pay for college. So Nice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:55]: So I'm really looking forward to hearing that from you. We got to know you a little bit at the top of the show through your bio, but we always love to start with asking our guests how you got to your current seat. Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:03]: Sure. So first of all, I'm a 1st generation college student, and so I went to undergrad not far from where I grew up. A little bit of safety in that. I knew the institution, knew the campus. And so not knowing much of anything else, that was where I was going. I had friends who went there. So I went to Allegheny College as an undergraduate, majored in political science, and minored in dance studies. Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:29]: I taught community ballroom classes.  Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:32]: So I love this. I love this so much. Yeah. Joisanne Rodgers [00:03:35]: And then I figured out while I was there. I went in, wanting to be a lawyer. That's what I was gonna do. And non spoiler spoiler alert, that's not what I'm doing as I'm on the NASPA podcast. Right? And so I found that those folks that were outside of the classroom were really the folks who were making big differences in what my access and what I could do and how I thought about things and and that kind of stuff and figured out that that was a job. Yeah. Who knew? And so I started looking for programs and positions both and got hired at Western Kentucky University. So I was a full time housing residence life staff member, part time graduate student there. Joisanne Rodgers [00:04:18]: I was an assistant hall director and hall director through that, and then moved to the DC area and realized that many times there's a gap between the academic side of the house and the student affairs side of the house. Mhmm. And I wanted to collect secret decoder rings Oh. To help build those bridges. So I started looking in the DC area for positions that were maybe academic adviser positions or those kinds of things that leaned into the student affairs counseling things that I've been doing just kind of in a different way. And so I became an academic advisor that then kind of morphed into a success coach role at what was then University of Maryland University College is now University of Maryland Global Campus, and started working with post traditional students at a non traditional institution, which was very different than any experience at at the institutions I had been at, small liberal arts, regional with some global reach, into this global giant institution and learned a lot through my work there, but also connecting with colleagues and moved up and around there and decided I should probably go for that next degree because why not? Worked on my doctorate, did my research in institutional barriers for non, post traditional students, and all of that kind of came together for the position that I'm in now at George Mason University. So in 2019, George Mason University created the contemporary student services unit, which is a really innovative, first of its kind way to serve all of these different post traditional populations and the intersectionalities of all of those in a one stop shop kind of way, really. And so, like I said, it's a it's a first of its kind, and as of last Google, the only of its kind. Joisanne Rodgers [00:06:05]: So when I saw the job description, it was one of those things where I took a moment and thought, okay. Either someone is totally stalking me online and created this specifically for me, or I may have just found the job I've always been looking for. Either way, like, I sent it to my friends. I'm like, I'm not misreading this. Right? Like They wrote this for me. Joisanne Rodgers [00:06:25]: They wrote this for me. I didn't completely, like, lose total reading comprehension. Right? So, I had that moment of this is too good to be true. Right? And it wasn't, and that is fabulous. And so I applied and hired on and now work with this incredible team of folks who are dedicated to post traditional students, contemporary students off campus transfer, adult learners, student parents, veteran military connected folks, foster care alumni, system impacted folks. So it's a really great place and a really great space to be innovative and stay ahead and to use all of that background. I like to tell folks because we had a conversation about having that arts beginning that I use my dance theory and knowledge just as frequently student development. It just really depends because they both are part of the everyday process of the work that I do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:26]: I'd like to dig into the language that you're using a little bit because I think that is an evolution and transition of how we've talked about students over 25 and students with children and etcetera, etcetera. So you're now using the term post traditional students and non traditional student is the terming that had been used for years. So tell us, about the inclusion of that new term and how it's reflective of current practice and why it's different. Joisanne Rodgers [00:07:51]: Yeah. So nontraditional, anything non. Right? You're not the usual. That makes you feel great. Right? Like, no. Am I really supposed to be here? But I don't yeah. So there's some othering about that. And so post traditional is more inclusive, still descriptive, and is coming up in the research. Joisanne Rodgers [00:08:12]: More is the the term used. And that definition of that is, yes, 25 and older, but also anyone who has adult, and I'm putting air quotes around that that you can't see, adult responsibilities. So that includes those student parents, married, widowed, divorced, military and veteran connected, although, admittedly, there's a whole another set of criteria and things going on for those folks when we talk about JSTs and all these other things. But so it's more inclusive of that in a kind of a broader umbrella, and the term, the language to it is better, in my humble opinion, for that population. But then elevating that even more, talking about contemporary students at Mason, and our definition of that is, yes, our post traditional, but also our transfer students are part of that. Our off campus students are part of that as well. So those folks who, again, don't fit that traditional mold, who come in with more experience than the traditional student might. And it's really about honoring and seeing the folks, the students that are sitting in front of us and not the picture that we have in our head of 18 straight out of high school straight in has no other responsibilities living on campus. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:23]: I really appreciate that new framing of contemporary student. I'm also wondering how you connect that term to the students that you're serving because it might be new for them as well. Joisanne Rodgers [00:09:32]: It's absolutely new for them. It's also new for our faculty and staff as well. Mhmm. And so we've spent some time like I said, the contemporary student services or CSS was established before lockdown. And then lockdown happened, and there was a lot of turnover and a lot of changes, of course, as everybody's experienced. So in this post lockdown era, 3 of my 4 staff members, myself included, were new into CSS. And so that really gave us a chance to kind of reestablish ourselves and reach out and connect with the faculty and staff as well as the students across the institution to reintroduce, reconnect, and reestablish contemporary, what that is, what that looks like, and how the great thing is also that all of my staff members hold some contemporary identity. I was an adult learner. Joisanne Rodgers [00:10:26]: 1 of my coordinators is a transfer student. Another one is student parent. So we all hold those identities. So when we say peer, we mean it though we may not be in classes right now, it honestly wasn't that long ago that we were in that very same spot. And so having those conversations and having that lived experience really makes the biggest difference when we're connecting with students, but also when we're representing our students and advocating for our students. So, I'd like to say our work is about ACEs, a c e s. We advocate, celebrate, educate, and serve. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:58]: Okay. And we have to make sure that we're separating that ACES from adverse childhood experiences.  Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:04]: Yes, for sure. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:05]: That's really helpful to kind of wrap our minds around this different conceptualization. You also said that George Mason is on the forefront of this new transition of how we're thinking about serving these very unique but growing populations at our university. Mhmm. How are you working with others in the field to kind of stabilize some of this and normalize it? Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:25]: Yeah. So we're doing a lot internally and then regionally and then nationally. Right? So we've partnered for some of our subpopulations. We've partnered with folks like Generation Hope and participated in a Family U cohort. We, in this last year, earned the Family U seal, which is really exciting. Congratulations. Thank you. We're super excited about that to kind of amplify and celebrate our work with student parents and caregiver caregivers. Joisanne Rodgers [00:11:54]: And but we're also working with our 1st generation center because the when you add 1st gen over over contemporary populations, that Venn diagram doesn't really get all that much bigger. It still stays real tight. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:05]: Mhmm. Joisanne Rodgers [00:12:06]: So we partner with our friends in 1st gen center, which are part of the 1st gen efforts through NASPA. And so having NASPA support in that is beautiful and really helpful. And we also are working with everyone from, for example, our Marcom, our marketing communications folks at the institution and in our university life space to make sure that there's visual representation of all of our students too. And so we wanna make sure that we're seeing that our students are seeing themselves in all of the collateral that happens in the marketing that happens across the institution and across the region because there are buses driving all over DC with Mason on them, and we want them to see themselves in that in that place and space too. And now we're looking at I'm here at NASPA. We're, taking that in. We're also Generation Hope is hosting their very first HOPE conference this year in New Orleans. So I'm going straight from NASPA to that conference Mhmm. Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:03]: To present, but also to take in what other folks are doing. And we're part of an Aspen network for Ascend. So we're really trying to connect in to work smarter, not harder, as I mentioned. So for us, we have, as I mentioned before, 4 full time professional staff members. We have a graduate student and student staff as well as an office manager. And sometimes I'm talking to folks and they say, oh my gosh. You only have 4 staff members to do that. And I talk to other folks, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:32]: You have 4 staff members. I'd love to have that. So we're in a great spot, kind of. And so looking at that too and making sure that as we're looking at emerging populations and looking at our work, that we're staying in a place where we can really help and advocate across the institution that we are not the only ones doing this work. Joisanne Rodgers [00:13:55]: I think that's the important part of it too is as we're gathering ideas from NASPA sessions, as we're gathering ideas from Hope Conference sessions, some of my staff went to FYE this year. And gathering that information, it's about how do we partner, what are great ways that we can advocate, consult, do these things so that, ideally, all of our faculty and staff across Mason see this contemporary student work as their work too. Joisanne Rodgers [00:14:25]: And a lot of times, it's just having the conversation about the language or having a little bit of conversation about calling them in to that work and making just little tweaks and changes because most of the time they're doing it. They just don't know that they're doing it. Or we're saying, that's really great. What if you could? And kind of leveling it up. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:45]: There's a book for 1st gen student success that NASPA, I believe, is a co publisher on, or maybe the publisher on. I I don't know exactly, but there's a list in it about, like, the 15 or 25 things that you can do to support first gen students. And the messaging I always come back to with that is if it's good for 1st gen students, it's good for all students because it's really about teaching people how to navigate the system of higher education, creating new to the system don't have, the social capital to understand, and and I really hear the echoes of serving those first gen students with your contemporary students. And it just it's so great to see that you're creating synergy with your 1st gen success center as well. Joisanne Rodgers [00:15:28]: Absolutely. And you're 12,000 percent correct in that, like, that hidden curriculum, the paper ceilings that a lot of our adult learners and and folks are hitting, and that's what's bringing them back into our into higher ed. But also understanding this strange lexicon that they've either never encountered or it's been a really long time, or maybe they encountered it with their children when they were sending their kids to college, but they've never had to apply that to themselves. And so it works a little differently. And so, yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, those overlaps are spot on. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:01]: I wanna talk a little bit about that dance theory component because with your origins being in the arts and dance theory, a lot of people that have never studied the arts in a formal context probably are saying I didn't know that there was theory to apply to to arts in that way. And we have those theories in music education and dance education. It's about how we teach learning. It's about how we absorb and create and a number of other things. So I'm wondering if you can tell us a little bit about 1 or 2 of the dance theories that you rely on and how you're transitioning those from context of the ballroom to context of contemporary Joisanne Rodgers [00:16:34]: students. Sure. So I have this kind of, like, running list of yes. There's, like, the formal theories and learning and and things like that, but I also kind of have this running list of things that always came from the director of the dance program, my undergrad, who doctor Jan Hyatt, love her, had these phrases that she always used that really stuck. And so a couple of those I think I have a list of, like, 10 or 15 in my notebook that have come with me all of these years later. And so the one that I use most frequently is you have to put the support in place before you need it. So whether you're executing a dance move, whether you're like, you don't just start playing for music, like, you just don't start playing. You ready yourself, instrument up, fingering, all of those things. Joisanne Rodgers [00:17:20]: Right? And so even when you're taking a step forward, your body is you do it unconsciously, more likely than not, but your body is putting these supports in place so that when you step forward, you don't fall flat on your face. Mhmm. So it's the same thing. We're talking about emerging populations. There were changes in Pell Grant rules and regs that open possibilities for previously incarcerated folks. That means that's that's opening up this emerging population. We've been looking at that population for the last year and a half or so, doing some research, doing some interviews, and putting together toolkits so that we can put the support in place before we need it. Mhmm. Joisanne Rodgers [00:17:57]: So, yes, some of those students already exist in our population, but we know that the possibility of more is coming. So we're putting that support in place before we need it. Just like if we were stepping forward, we don't wanna fall on our faces. Not that it's gonna work perfectly. Right? Practice and test and learns, that's how we come at it, but applying that. The other thing that I will say from her, mainly because this links directly into the podcast, is life is in the transitions. And so the importance of a move to the space in between the two moves is just as important as hitting your point or hitting the move or those kinds of things. And so that transition space and time is when things happen. Joisanne Rodgers [00:18:37]: Like, that's where the good stuff happens. And so that is always part of what I remind myself of as things are happening, and I translate that into the work and kind of the business y thing of, like, testing test and learns. Right? It's always a process and it's an iterative process. Speaking of more theory, formal theory, is one of my favorite quotes from Margaret Dobler is, where the sum total are experiences Mhmm. And that's the only way we can show up, and that's the only way that we can react, which to me says meet the students where they are. Like, those things are very, if not exactly the same, very, very similar, which is a tenet of student affairs. Right? How many times do you hear folks say meet the students where they are? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:19]: Mhmm. That tenet has been one of the major constants through NASPA's existence, I think. You know, the organization itself is, I think, a 100 ish years old, and the the core of NASPA's philosophies have been fairly constant over time. I had the pleasure of interviewing some folks, it was maybe 3 years ago at this point, who were the administrators at Kent State University during the Kent State situation, situation. And they read me the NASPA manual from that year, and it was all still relevant. So it's really interesting to see how the way that we approach the work has changed a lot over time and we've become more justice focused, we've become more inclusive, we've become broader in who we serve, but we are still keeping that core of we're trying to help college students and young adults kind of realize their full selves in that out of classroom space, continue to show up as our best. Joisanne Rodgers [00:20:08]: Yeah. Keeping that good stuff as the core. Absolutely. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:11]: I'm wondering if you could tell us how folks might be able to read more about these new evolutions in serving contemporary students. Because we're not seeing that research necessarily show up as boldly in some of the major journals, but there's so much work that is, I think, the future of what's happening in American higher education, specifically. Joisanne Rodgers [00:20:28]: Yeah. I think when we're looking at research, we get really specific. So for me, when I was doing, for example, my dissertation research and doing my lit review, it was a lot of looking at the specific subpopulations. Student parent, parenting student, all the variations of that. And so looking at that broader space, you know, I think about all of the advice that I got as I was constructing my research questions and things like that. And without fail, the first I would like to say 2 to 3, but it was probably more like 6 to 8 times. It was like, no. You gotta get narrower. Joisanne Rodgers [00:21:12]: It's like you're you're gonna you're never gonna get this done if you don't get specific. And so I think that's what's hard is that post traditional is so big and broad, contemporary is so big and broad, and so we talk a lot and there's a lot of research about those subpopulations, but looking at that in the broader sense is a little harder. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:31]: You just said what every doctoral student has heard, too much pain. Right? Like, please please narrow your focus. I'm working with a person right now who is trying to narrow their focus from studying a population that is millions of people and going, oh, I just wanna study the population. Okay. But what about that population? And it's just so important for doctoral students to remember this is the first time you'll do independent research, not the last time. Yes. That's a hard lesson to learn, I think. Joisanne Rodgers [00:22:00]: Yeah. It absolutely I did a lit review on contemporary students, what would I be doing, and how would I look at these subpopulations, and how would I bring this together? And then thinking about those big, over arching Mhmm. Needs that are identified in that in that literature. So coordination of service being one of those, access and not necessarily access to education, which might be where your brain goes immediately when I say access, but it's really access to information. Mhmm. It's that social capital piece. Exactly. And so having those and having a not just a group of peers, but a group of peers that reflect their identities Mhmm. Joisanne Rodgers [00:22:46]: And whatever is most salient in the moment. So we know that for adult learners in particular, and this is true across all contemporary populations, but if they have a peer group that is just traditional students, it's not great. It can be detrimental. Mhmm. So helping them find their community and find their village, I've been at Mason I don't know. It feels like maybe 12 minutes. Really, it was probably a couple months. And one of our student parents who is working with us with Generation Hope was our student parent fellow. Valeria said at a convening, said everybody says it takes a village. Joisanne Rodgers [00:23:26]: But not everybody has one. Mhmm. And that just I was like, yeah. Exactly. That, like, just hit me, and it was this beautiful encapsulation Joisanne Rodgers [00:23:38]: Of everything that we were talking about, of students coming in and not having what they need, but that we could help and we could connect them, and we could be a village. We could be part of that support network and system. And not being a student parent, but being an auntie of, like, in with my best friend who was a student parent. She was getting her MBA, and my goddaughter was really, really tiny. And I was doing my doctorate, and so we were trading off for doing homework and hanging out with the kiddo and all of those things. And so I get that village. I'm like, I am a villager. We can be villagers. Joisanne Rodgers [00:24:15]: Let's do it. But that's not just true for our student parents and caregivers. It's true for many of our students. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:22]: You just gave one great example of what that can look like in practice. I'm wondering if you have any other practice elements that you think is important for our listenerships. Yeah. Joisanne Rodgers [00:24:29]: I think the big things for us that we've gotten really big positive feedback on are several things. 2 that I'll pull out is 1, we have community spaces that we plan out early so that we can let our students get those on their calendars and make notes so that they can make the time. We'll also do multimodal, so sometimes they'll be in person, sometimes they'll be online, so they can connect with each other. And it's really it's truly just a space of, like, we're providing the space, but our students our student workers, we've created, student ambassador positions that work differently than your traditional student worker position where you're asking for 15 or 20 hours a week. Those aren't working for all of our contemporary students, particularly for our adult learners, our student parents, and military veteran connected folks. Many of them are already living in time poverty, so asking for 15 to 20 hours a week, not gonna happen. Mhmm. So we created these ambassador positions that are right now, I think we have them set to, like, 50, 55 hours over the entirety of the semester. Joisanne Rodgers [00:25:37]: Okay. And we have a stipend that's attached to that because their lived experience is important, and if we're doing things for them, we wanna do that with them. And so those students are supporting those spaces and coming up with ideas of activities or topics and connections. So that's one thing that has been really great, and it's really helped our students build their own villages and build their their success network across the Mason community too because we also invite our colleagues into that space and into our lounge that we have on campus. I think the other thing is that, like every other population, we have us the contemporary student appreciation week. But we do that in April, and at the end of the week, we have a graduation celebration for our contemporary students. So we have contemporary student courts that they can come and pick up and wear at commencement. But at the graduation celebration, if they haven't already grabbed those, we have those available for them. Joisanne Rodgers [00:26:35]: But we encourage them to bring their village. We don't limit the number of folks that they can bring. We want them to bring their kids. We have kids' activities at the at the event. We want them to bring their parents. We want them to bring whoever is supporting them and has been a champion for them, including Mason faculty and staff. So So when they RSVP for that event, we ask them, who's been a champion for you? Who really made a difference? Is there a professor, a staff member, a community member that really just lifted you up or amplified or advocated for you or just was there and supportive and would listen? And when they identify the folks, we send them an invite. You know, like, come celebrate with us. Joisanne Rodgers [00:27:16]: And so we have this really great mix of students and their families and faculty and staff, and our VP comes and talks, and our AVP, and it's just this really beautiful event. We give them a whole bunch of, like, different areas. They can take pictures, and it's just a really beautiful event that kind of setting yourself up for success when you do a graduation celebration. That part I won't lie about. I know. Like, we're already starting at a 7 out of 10. But those connections are also really great in that space of having gratitude at the end of this journey that was not easy. Yeah. Joisanne Rodgers [00:27:50]: There isn't anybody in that room being like, this was a breeze. Glad to see I'm out. No. Everybody in that room is, this was a hard one situation. Mhmm. And I had to make some hard decisions. I had to make some really difficult priority management decisions, And I just have some really interesting conversations with my partner, with my kids about, it's homework time. You do your homework. Joisanne Rodgers [00:28:15]: I'm doing my homework. This is what we've gotta do. But at the end, it wasn't easy, but it wasn't worth it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:21]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:27]: Thanks so much, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a number of professional development opportunities that are coming up in the future that some of you may have an interest in. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is coming up December 10th through December 13th, and the call for programs ends on May 9, 2024. The Women's Leadership Institute provides an experience that offers strategies for women to succeed in the higher education profession. Participants include women with from facilities and operations, administration, auxiliary services, student affairs, recreation, and libraries who share a passion for the profession and plan to lead with lasting impact. This is a joint venture between NASPA and ACUI and a great opportunity for anyone looking to hone their leadership skills for working in a rapidly changing environment while also developing a better understanding of the campus as a workplace and culture and being able to connect with others to share experiences about how campuses are adapting and adjusting to the new reality that surrounds us. Early registration goes through October 21st, but the big deadline right now, as I mentioned at the beginning, is the call for programs, which does end on May 9, 2024. Some of the leadership cycle topics that are encouraged include topics surrounding supervision and performance management, strategic planning, financial well-being, upskillreskill, the bridge to the future, delegating and giving away, picking up new skills and putting things down. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:00]: I highly encourage you to consider putting in a program proposal and if not, consider attending this amazing professional development opportunity. You can find out more on the NASPA website. The 2024 NASPA M. Ben Hogan Small Colleges and Universities Institute is coming up June 23rd through 26th in Portland, Oregon. This institute is hosted on a biannual basis by NASPA Small College and Universities Division. The Institute is a 4 day residential program, during which vice presidents for student affairs and the equivalent and other senior level leaders engage in discussion and reflection about critical issues in student affairs and examine effective and innovative programs. There's still time to register under the early registration deadline, which is April 30, 2024. This Institute offers amazing opportunities for individuals working at small colleges and universities to be able to build lasting friendships and connections that will help them to be able to lead their own units at their own institutions in new ways. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:04]: If you've never attended this professional development in the past, I highly encourage you to attend this year. You definitely don't want to miss this opportunity to be able to connect, be rejuvenated and to prepare yourself to lead your organization to the next level. The 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is happening December 9th through December 11th in Philadelphia. This is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA, College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for Leadership Programs. LEI provides a unique opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on your campus. The Leadership Institute creates a space for student affairs administrators, scholars, and practitioners to discuss and advance current leadership topics, such as modern leadership theories and models, including new research, applications and critical perspectives, innovative and inclusive curriculum, pedagogy, and strategies for leadership studies courses, assessment and evaluation of leadership programs, student development and learning outcomes, future directions in leadership education and development based on widely used studies and standards such as the multi institutional study of leadership, CAS, and ILA guiding questions, unique co curricular program models and high impact practices, including those with cohort and multi year engagement, distance and online learning, service learning, mentoring, and global experiences. Strategy and management of leadership program operations, including staff training, funding, and partnerships, as well as interdissectional and interdisciplinary approaches to leadership education. If you are someone that is leading leadership training and leadership development of students on your own campus or wish to be a part of that in the future, this professional development is a must go to. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:06]: Registration is now open. Pre early registration ends on June teenth with early registration ending on September 9th. Find out more on the NASPA website. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself, where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:14]: Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:42]: Chris, thank you so much for another great addition of NASPA World. We really appreciate you keeping us informed on what's going around in and around NASPA. And, Joisanne, we have reached our lightning round. Oh. I've got 7 questions for you. 90 seconds. Oh my. Alright. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:56]: I'm ready. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:00]: your entrance music be? Ain't No Man, The Avett Brothers. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:03]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:06]: I wanted to be a teacher because student affairs professional, not on the kindergarten chart.  Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:12]: True story. Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:17]: I had a list. I talked about Jan, which is important. I think in the place and space that I'm in right now, it's my current supervisor, Sally Laurenson, and she has been amazing. Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Oh my gosh. Everything. Consume everything you can and run it through the lens of you and your life and your strengths and your institution. Number 5. Joisanne Rodgers [00:35:45]: The best TV show you binged during the pandemic. I feel like I should say The Chair, because it just is absolutely directly related, but really the guilty pleasure version of that is Love is Blind. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:57]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Joisanne Rodgers [00:36:00]: Oh, that one's easy. Malcolm Gladwell revisionist history. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:04]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Joisanne Rodgers [00:36:08]: Oh, my gosh. Everybody. I stand on the shoulders of giants is really what that is. So I have this really amazing family that despite not having a lens necessarily for what I do is still a 1000% in. And when I say things like, I'm sorry. I can't come home for Thanksgiving if you want me home at Christmas. They were not thrilled about it, but they made it work and were lovely the whole time, and I know that was difficult. And so I love them, but, also, I've had the privilege of working with some really great folks and having people like Ted Smith, who was my first RD, who told me this could be a job, and support from folks at Allegheny, as well as then moving into my first professional position at Western Kentucky University and having this group of folks who were in it and wanted everyone to succeed in just this really great village of folks that supported me in that and helped me learn how to be a professional in that place and space. Joisanne Rodgers [00:37:10]: And my first supervisor, Nick Wired, and Brian Powell, and Ben Ellis just absolutely giving me space and grace to fail fast and forward, and supporting me in that, and having a leadership team, particularly in in HRL, but also in my internships and things like that. So my Western Kentucky family, my Hilltopper family being great support in that as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:38]: Joisanne, I know I learned a lot from you today, and I'm sure there are others who have. If they'd like to reach out to you, how can they find you? Joisanne Rodgers [00:37:44]: Absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn. Look at the ad for my name. It's spelled a little differently than you might think, but I'm pretty easy to find. So connect with me on LinkedIn, send me a note, add a note to that that you heard me here and ask some questions. I'm always happy to answer those or jump on a Zoom with someone and chat about what's going on. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:03]: Thank you so much, Joisanne, for sharing your voice with us today. Joisanne Rodgers [00:38:06]: Absolutely. Thank you for having Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:10]: me. This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:44]: It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

**Advancing DEI Values** In an enlightening new episode of SA Voices From The Field Dr. Jill Creighton invites Shawntal Brown, an advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI), to share her insights on driving institutional support for these crucial values. Shawntal emphasizes how integrating DEI into the fabric of higher education is not just beneficial but essential for creating welcoming and inclusive environments. **The Research Journey** Shawntal's research journey reveals a strategic pivot from focusing on staff insights to exploring university presidents' role in championing DEI. This shift underscores the importance of leadership buy-in for effective DEI initiatives **Navigating Complex Social Landscapes** Proactive DEI work is emerging as a priority in contemporary academia. Dr. Jill and Shawntal discuss the challenges posed by today's charged social and political climates, emphasizing the need for steadfast commitment to DEI principles. **Legislative Impacts on DEI** Texas Senate Bill 17's severe restrictions on diversity trainings and resources present significant hurdles. Shawntal offers a poignant analysis of the bill's consequences, exploring the complex task of reconciling legislative compliance with DEI values. **Staying True to DEI Amidst Legal Challenges** Transitioning DEI efforts to align with new legislation while adhering to core values is a delicate balance. Shawntal reflects on her time in the school of engineering, bringing a personal touch to her professional dedication to supporting students. **Self-Care for DEI Professionals** Shawntal wisely advises her peers to prioritize self-care while traversing the treacherous waters of DEI work, advocating for a strong support system amidst the current landscape. **Professional Development and Community Building** Promising initiatives like the NASPA 2024 Mid Level Administrators Conference and the Women's Leadership Institute provide pivotal growth and networking opportunities for DEI professionals. **Resources Against Regressive Legislation** Sharing resources and staying informed are vital for navigating legislative impacts on higher education, as Shawntal passionately discusses. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of On Transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, essay voices. Welcome back for our next episode. And today, I'm very excited to introduce you to Shawntal Brown. Shawntal aims to advance the values of diversity, equity, and inclusion and promote servant leadership through her research, service, and formal academic appointments. In her current appointment as senior outreach program coordinator for initiatives for campus support in the division of campus and community engagement at the University of Texas at Austin, Shawntal builds connections with students, staff, and faculty so the campus community members can experience a welcoming and inclusive campus climate. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:57]: She enjoys a research based approach to community building, including leveraging campus climate assessment findings to develop resources and strategically approach campus outreach to support equitable environments at the university. Her equity lens is also evident in her service and accolades. Shawntal is the co-president of the Texas Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education or TADAHE for short and provides TADAHE administrators with professional and personal development opportunities in alignment with the mission, envision, and equity and inclusive experience of the organization. Additionally, she received the NASPA Region 3 DEI Mosaic Award for her passion and support of diversity, equity, and inclusion through her advocacy and research. Shawntal's doctoral research focuses on university presidents and their commitments to DEI through their organizational perspective. Her work, mapping pleasure and pain of women's bodies, Southern Black feminist geographic interventions in the journal Gender, Place, and Culture. And Additionally, she has co authored with doctor Michael a Goodman in ACPA developments called It'll Be Like Biden and Harris, a Black Woman's Conundrum in Collegiate Student Government. To bridge research and practice across disciplines, Shawntal regularly presents at different conferences, including National Women's Studies Association, the Texas Association College and University Student Personnel Administrators or TCUPSA Group, and with NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:16]: Hope you enjoy our conversation. Before this episode moves forward today, I want to ensure that we clarify the timeline for the conversation. Shawntal and I had the pleasure of speaking in mid February 2024. This was prior to the layoffs happening at the University of Florida in the DEIB space. So if you don't hear us reference it or you're confused why something sounds a little different than your expectations, it's because that particular action simply had not occurred yet when this conversation was recorded. If you are a person at the University of Florida who's been impacted by the legislation and by job loss, just want to say that I'm thinking about you and hope that you're able to progress forward in a way that is meaningful and also still helps our students feel included, not just feel included, but become included in our collegiate spaces. I appreciate all of the work that you all are doing and have done. Shawntal, we are thrilled to welcome you to SA Voices. Shawntal Brown [00:03:14]: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited for today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:17]: And in our theme of transitions, we're going to be talking about your transitions primarily as a diversity educator and student activist all the way through to professional who's supporting students who are engaging in activism. And we always love to get to know our guests by asking you how you got to your current seat. Shawntal Brown [00:03:34]: Yes. So I think going back, I am originally from Oklahoma City. So transferred to Austin, Texas for my master's in women's and gender studies. And so while I was a master's student, I was just trying to find my way of, like, you know, what do I wanna do as a career? What do I want to, like, focus on? And I found myself being in spaces that primarily supported minority student populations. And so first started out in a center called the Gender and Sexuality Center, supported LGBTQIA students, women students within that space, and led different opportunities like a feminist Friday, where we talked about different topics focused on, like, you know, feminist theory, talking about occurring events, things like that. Just supporting folks who are like in different organizations. And so as I was in that space, I was like, I kinda like this. This is like a really cool space to be in. Shawntal Brown [00:04:23]: I really enjoyed just working along the different program programs that they did, events that were had. And I was like there's there's something about this that I like and so after I finish that internship, I started working at the international office at my institution at the University of Texas at Austin, and I was working with, like, different students from different, countries. So from, like, China, Germany, you name it. We were working with those student populations. And to do that event, I was considered a assistant program coordinator then. And before, I'm not formally trained in, you know, student theory, higher education, and that sends for my master's degree. And so I was like, I wonder how this could pan out as a job in the future. And so slowly but surely continue to do that work, working with different student groups, whether they're international, whether they were, like, you know, minoritized populations, campus. Shawntal Brown [00:05:17]: And then I found myself, like, I think this is, like, the career path that I wanna go down. And so I was applying for positions that are specifically working with underrepresented students, especially women students. I wanted to, you know, continue to do that work. And after a while, I was able to become a student program coordinator in an engineering office that supported underrepresented students, which was an amazing opportunity because I, like, advise student groups, a lot of professional groups like the National Society of Black Engineers, Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers. I was able to put on programs to welcome, like, prospective students. I did a lot of recruitment work, and then also did, like, classes, taught, like, research research course, getting students it really interested in graduate school, especially underrepresented students because I was just like, you in this space are so important to have as a potential, like, faculty member, as a mentor for, like, future students that are coming behind you. And so I was really passionate about doing that work. But really in that role is doing, like, a little bit of everything, becoming like a Swiss army knife, if you will, in, the space. Shawntal Brown [00:06:18]: So really getting to know different skills that I was building and helping folks academically, helping folks professionally, you know, all those different realms for those student groups. And so after a while, I was like, this has been a really great opportunity just to really get to know these students, seeing them grow in their different ways. And so that was, like, my first full time position to really see, like, this is a really great opportunity to work with these students. And so now my current role as a senior outreach program coordinator, I work in a division of the of campus and community engagement. It's more focused on the broader campus community as supporting students, staff, and faculty to make sure they have a welcoming and accessible, like, experience at the institution. But really, my pathway kind of just helping support underrepresented groups has been really just like the foundation of where I found myself at the institution and just really enjoy the work that I do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:09]: And I'll give you a shout out for your work for our listeners. As we mentioned in the bio, Shawntal actually received a NASPA award region 3 for, the DEI Mosaic award supporting diversity, equity, and inclusion. So can you tell us about what work led to that recognition? Shawntal Brown [00:07:24]: Yeah. Oh, goodness. I would just also wanna shout out the folks who willingly nominated me. I was like, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. The it was really like a lot of the work that I have done has really been focused on, just supporting the professionals in my role with the Techs Association of Diversity Officers in Higher Education. A mouthful I know, but we call it TADAA here, was really the opportunity for me to really branch out and network with other DEI professionals rather in the state of Texas. Shawntal Brown [00:07:51]: And so that was kind of, like, one of the many things that folks saw me doing. I'm currently the co president for that. And so that has kind of, like, led to to that recementing my foundation within DEI. I think just also the support of, underrepresented students, like I've mentioned, has really just been, like, the cracks that people can see that connection building that I really love to just put forth with people. And let me see. I think I'm trying to remember one more. I feel like I'm forgetting one more, but I think folks see the overall research. And I'm also doing my my doctorate part time, doing my research focusing on diversity, equity, inclusion. Shawntal Brown [00:08:28]: And I think people see that that's something that's really just a core value to my, like, higher ed professional life profile. And so I think the folks who nominated me really saw and let that shine through when they wrote those nominations. So I'm really appreciative for them. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:44]: And the work that you were doing for that recognition, also extremely important and kind of unique to tie into higher education. Can you talk a little bit about how you found your research topic? Because I know that is a major question for almost every doctoral student on the planet. Everyone's either on this very big mind space of wanting to study everything, maybe a little bit lost on not knowing what to study. Shawntal Brown [00:09:06]: Yeah. That's a great question. I think I really started out with, like, the crux of, like, I'm really interested in DEI in my research, but where do I go here? And initially, I was trying to focus more on, like, the staff perspective of, like, flipping it. Like, what could staff do to make DEI more cemented in their goals and their, like, you know, opportunities and things like that. But then I was, like, really sitting with it's bigger than this because my personal opinion in thinking about the institution, I feel like DEI should be really just linked up into, like it should be fully embedded into the infrastructure of the institution. So I was, like, thinking, how can that happen? What does that look like? And read through, like, the literature that I have gone through at this point. They talked about chief diversity officers as, like, really important people to have in these roles, really important to have in these spaces to really amplify that voice. But then in the case of my research specifically, I was like, you know what? Let's shift it. Shawntal Brown [00:10:00]: Like, what does it mean to have a university president who really supports this? And so that's kind of the perspective I'm taking up. Like, what does it mean for your leadership up above to support the values of diversity and inclusion, whether it be in their state of union addresses and strategic plans. Like what does that mean for them to do this work? And so it was something that it took me a while to get there. I think I kind of, like, was taking the different angles. I think of it as like a diamond. I was like, I'm on this face of the diamond, but I I need to just go over to this face to this face. And now I'm like, oh, I kind of hit where I wanna be. And it's really interesting. Shawntal Brown [00:10:34]: I might nerd out a little bit on researching because I'm really excited about it to really look at one specific, president that is at the University of Texas at Boston who had a really amazing legacy that I've heard so far, who was William c Powers, who just really did a lot of great work and really amplified diversity, equity, inclusion here. And so I'm kind of curious, how did he do this work? How did he get here? And so I'm very excited to start get to the process of, like, interviewing, chatting with folks to kinda hear about the experiences that people may have had with him. So I'm I'm really excited just to see what does this mean for other future university presidents? What does it mean for folks who are, like, aspiring for this role who also love diversity, equity, inclusion, or value diversity, equity, inclusion too? So I'm really excited for this. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:15]: I think that's really important work to look at that narrative perspective on what it actually looks like in practice. I know that our NASPA colleagues put out a publication not too long ago about campus statements in response to acts of racial aggression or ethnic aggression or marginalized identity based aggression and what they looked like, some of their impact and things like that that came out, I wanna say, maybe couple of years ago. It was post the murder of George Floyd, but it was, I think, still during the pandemic when that came out. So that maybe kind of losing a little steam in terms of age as we all know research does, but I appreciate that I think what you're doing is carrying that forward and looking a little bit deeper at one individual perspective. But I'm wondering as a professional in the DEI realm, what you're seeing in terms of transitioning the work that you're doing because I feel like for a long time, the field was in reactive mode because there was so much happening. And now maybe we're swinging back to being more proactive. What do you see? Shawntal Brown [00:12:13]: No. I think that's really important now, especially with, like, the social political climate happening, you know, states like Texas, very conservative states with the anti DEI legislature that's going on. And so I think it's an opportunity for professionals who are trying to, 1, remain in compliance with, like, you know, the new law. But then, 2, for folks who are, like, needing to really resubmit and reaffirm the work that they're doing. And so it's definitely, like, a difficult balance right now because to think more broadly about what's going on, folks of the AI professionals or, you know, the new spaces that folks are in trying to still support the new type of work that we're doing is a really tough place. It's definitely like a lot of losses happened, but I think it's more important now than ever to learn how to be proactive in the spaces, especially That's a generous word. Yeah. It's a unique time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:11]: That's a generous word. Shawntal Brown [00:13:13]: Yeah. It's a unique time. And so I think it I think there is, like, a future of what we can do to continue to support a version of diversity work and what it can be. But I think it's definitely like a we're kinda rolling with the punches. And I think the proactive piece will definitely it still needs to be there, but I think it'll just have to be a different way of shaping it for it to be still present in our values in of itself, if that makes sense. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:42]: So the unique thing always about the US is that depending on which state you're in, the rules shift drastically. We also have quite a few national members who are not within the United States. So can you please elucidate a little bit what's going on in Texas with the law? Shawntal Brown [00:13:56]: Yes. No. That's important to just kind of get out of my US centric perspective. So in Texas specifically, there was a bill passed called 7 senate bill 17. It's more colloquially described as, like, the anti DEI bill. And so with this, the bill asked for many different things to be discontinued, such as, like, diversity trainings, opportunities to have specific affinity groups, ally trainings, different types of statements made by individuals. So, like, diversity statements are no longer able to be offered by faculty who are looking into precisions at their institutions. But many all of it did really say that is trying to aim towards, like, a color blind, gender neutral approach to things that happens at the institution, which is very difficult because a lot of the current DEI offices in Texas specifically have to go through undergo a lot of changes. Shawntal Brown [00:14:49]: And some of these changes resulted a lot of them were resolved. And then an office that, you know, had to come back with something that was gonna abide by the current law of senate bill 17. And so it's definitely been a lot of upheaval just like not specifically I would say upheaval watching it as a professional at my institution, but also looking at the broader, like, Texas institutions and seeing how the different changes are happening. And that's definitely been, like, a really tough time overall just kind of navigating the the spaces and how everyone's kind of doing things a little bit differently. So it's been tough in that front. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:25]: I think Texas, Utah, and Florida are all kind of in the same space right now. How are you transitioning your work on a day to day basis from what maybe you would have done last year or things like trainings or just general inclusion in your campus community? And how do you work towards that now given it feels like it's a little bit antithesis to the new law? Shawntal Brown [00:15:50]: Yeah. I think I'll I'll highlight Tadee because I think it is a moment where us as an organization, we really wanna provide resources to staff in those spaces and really help them kind of understand the new law and also building community with each other. Because since we Texas is so big, so spread out, there's so many institutions here. And so it's really, like, important to have, like, the community building, like, resource offering to folks because, like I mentioned, like, everyone's doing things a little bit differently, understanding the the law a little bit differently. And so that makes it really tough. I can empathize and, like, relate to, like, the feeling of, like, isolation in some ways of, oh my goodness. We're this little hub here, and we're doing this in this way. And then watching, like, a little hub there, and they're doing it that way. Shawntal Brown [00:16:40]: And so I think I am fortunate to be in a role with Tati just to kind of be a support system in this time and just really try to bring together the conversations with individuals. Like, we're having our annual summit that's coming up in the summertime, and so we're really trying to bring people, like, let's chat about this. Let's understand it. How can we work together in this time? How can we support each other in this time? And so that's our main push right now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:04]: And what are you seeing that's working? Shawntal Brown [00:17:06]: I feel like, you know, in the in the broader sense, I think the resource sharing has been more, this is our key. We need to chat about this. We need to talk about these conversations. So resource sharing has been very helpful. Just to understand what's happening at other campuses because we're this is still new. We're about, what, a month in to this new legislature. So it's kind of like, oh, yeah. We need to chat with each other. Shawntal Brown [00:17:27]: We need to talk to each other. And so definitely, like, receiving articles, keeping up with the news, reading about what's changing, what's happening across the country, across the state, it's been really important during this time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:38]: And anyone in particular who's been implementing practice differently now in terms of being able to do the work and stay in alignment with what the legislature expects? Shawntal Brown [00:17:48]: Yeah. I think that's a really great question. And I think a lot of the work that we used to do within our spaces cannot continue. And that's really been tough for us as higher ed professionals to learn the restrictions and the confines that we have to navigate with this new law. And so it really hurts because there's great losses that hasn't been acknowledged enough. I would say just to know that there are centers that are closed that used to support LGBTQ students. There are positions that are being let go of at different institutions. And so there's a lot of grieving that is happening right now amid these different anti DEI laws. Shawntal Brown [00:18:31]: And so it makes the work that we try to do within the confines of this law much more difficult because we are trying to make sure that we are in compliance to new law. So there's a lot of barriers to us now. And so it does impede a lot of the progress that was made in prior years that we're trying to, you know, we were trying to advance towards equity, and now we can't. And so it's definitely very much antithetical to the work that was previously done, and it's making it more difficult for higher ed professionals to continue to do this work. And so, yeah, that's been really tough and really difficult to just sit with currently. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:09]: Yeah. Let's talk about your students as well or the students in the state of Texas because, you know, we we think about the impact to the profession. We think about, you know, the impact to how our faculty colleagues are also responding. But at the end of the day, the number one population impacted is probably the students who will either no longer be receiving this type of education or who maybe relied on services or communities, that are no longer either allowed or at least recognizable under this new law. So how is that playing out? Shawntal Brown [00:19:44]: I think in the sense of this law, the students have really stepped up in some ways. And I know that's kind of a tricky thing because I know my personal, like, soap boxes that students came to the institution to learn and not have to do so much advocacy work. And so I hold a bit of tension with it in some ways. But I also say that they have a lot of voice in what they can do and make institutional leaders know, like, this is a problem. We're missing this. We're hurting. We want to make sure that you understand this loud and clear. And I think, like, you know, throughout social media, throughout, like, my personal experience of, like, what I'm seeing broadly is, like, I think that student voice is really important right now. Shawntal Brown [00:20:24]: It's critical right now, and it's so needed because they are being heard. They are, you know, doing their own organizing. And there are groups that are even outside of the institution that are doing their organizing that, you know, are putting their own resources together to really band with each other, which is really important too. And so I really admire and appreciate what they're doing because it's really gonna be something that's, 1, gonna be important in when we look back at this time to see the work that they've done and acknowledge that work. But then, 2, it's gonna be something that we may need to think about in the future sense too of, like, you know, how can we make sure that students, in a broader sense, kind of get information that's gonna be helpful for them prior to, like, the bills coming up. Maybe more of a, how can we think about legislative, like, education and advocacy for our students? Like, how can that be built into our to our programming and our systems, like, in the future too? So it's kind of like a thought that I hadn't missed about this kind of reflecting the experiences. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:20]: And you were a student activist before becoming a professional in the DEI space. How has your take on the work changed from being a student in the space to being a professional who's leading others in the space? Shawntal Brown [00:21:32]: I think in my experience, I guess, like for context, I went to the University of Oklahoma for my alma mater. And so there is a unfortunately, a racist incident that happened at the institution that is known as the Sigma Alpha Epsilon, incident. Institution that is known as the Sigma Alpha Epsilon, incident or SAE. It had a lot of, like, press CNN, a lot of, like, you know, large global and local news kind of took over it. And, essentially, it really alienated black students on campus because the fraternity didn't want black men to be part of their organization. And so it was something where in that student activist perspective, I was like, my voice, I feel like I need to share something. Like, my voice is needed in this conversation, and I wanna be able to contribute. And so to really do a lot of work of, like, making your voice known at that time was really important and also engaging in different conversations that people were having. Shawntal Brown [00:22:24]: So whether it was me on social media talking about, you know, this is why this isn't, you know, this is the article, current events. This is what I think about it. We need to kind of think about how we can incorporate this at the institution is one way I kinda contribute my voice in the conversation. And also showing up to, like, meetings with senior leadership as well as a way to kind of put the face and name, help them understand how we can better improve the experiences for black students specifically at the campus, but also like black faculty to consider them and black staff to consider them. And I think that was really important during that time in addition to there's already a, like, a student activist group called O You and Her that I always tell folks, like, I feel like I was at the 2nd wave of that organization. And the 1st wave of folks were really doing the work, and the 2nd wave was kind of thinking more of, like, how can we make this work be expansive than just this time frame that we're having now. And so to think about all those different experience as a student activist that I've had and coming into this role as, like, being a full time professional, it was interesting to think about when 2020 did happen and then the murder of George Floyd did occur, that there was a lot of student voice that was happening when I was in my role in the the school of engineering. And I was like, oh, when I was in my role in the the school of engineering. And I was like, oh my goodness. This is very reminiscent. This feels familiar. And it was a moment for me to kind of think about, like, where do I step in and where do I step back? Because I know as a professional, there's, like, all the different layers of, like, you know, you cannot represent, like, the institution. You can't represent your department, but how else can you support these students? And so really to be like the the listening ear or the person who's signing, like the list of demands that they had to kind of like cosign with them. If I was able to do that with them, then that was something that I was, like, I feel good about supporting you in this way or folks that, like, wanting to talk about advice about navigating the space or what made sense or who to talk to. Shawntal Brown [00:24:13]: I think that's kind of how it shifted in a way of from the student perspective, I felt more, I guess, I don't wanna say without restriction, but I guess, like, there's a freeness around, like, you know, how I can, like, express my voice and how I can express my opinion and thoughts and things of that way. But as a staff member, I had to kinda reflect on my sense of, like, power and privilege and kind of, like, know when I can, like, step up in that space and, like, help support or need to step back and let the students kind of lead that and let me be in the background. And so I think that perspective overall has really kind of helped better understand or I guess better empathize really when students do use their voice or, you know, need support in using their voice and kinda think about how the greater picture of, like, what can change at an institution really look like overall with those two perspectives in mind? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:00]: That is a really important lesson that I think a lot of us in campus based higher education need to relearn often, which is in student affairs, we are more often than not the primary advocate and voice for student needs within a university's administration. And that voice has a lot of power, but also it can be marginalized at an institution in a lot of cases. And so often I I think about how much power our students really do have compared to staff, and it is a very different balance. And deciding to sign on to a position statement with students is an interesting balance of choice that we all have to make when presented with that choice. Can you talk a little bit about how you make that choice, to determine whether you're signing on to something that your students are advocating for versus not? Shawntal Brown [00:25:50]: I think that's a delicate balance. And truthfully, I think I'm still learning. I think in that space of thinking about when I was in engineering, I was appreciative that other staff members were willing to do that same thing for students. And so I felt that since the community from trusted folks who were, like, signing on to their to their positionality statements and speaking up in that way. And I think it was more of a communal thing of, like, you know, yes, we agree with you. We see you. We see the work that you're doing. I think in in now, I think in some ways, I still do that. Shawntal Brown [00:26:22]: But sometimes I'm used like a personal email, for example, as a way to still kind of do that work because I feel, you know, there is I think I've hear this so many times, like, there's power in numbers and it's really important. And so if I can still provide that support and maybe it's more of a perfect like a personal like, I personally feel like this is something critical that the institution needs to listen to. I will do that work because I want to see the institution or whatever the department, the office change for the better. And once it changes for the better, it changes for everyone. And it's a it's a win for everyone, I feel. And so I think that's like the subtle way I have done it. There's probably other ways that folks probably have thought through it, but I think that's the my catch for all that balancing. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:07]: Especially if you're a public employee choosing to use a personal email is a big thing. Right? So I think everyone would be smart to check with their local regulations on what that means for public records and whole bunch of other things. But, yeah, it's it's definitely an interesting balance. And then at some point in your career as you grow, that letter's being sent to you as opposed to you being asked to sign on to it. And then we're in a position to decide how we engage in dialogue and actions and how we determine what's actionable and not actionable. What's usually, everything is quite reasonable, but what is actionable is a different question given budget and time and, human resources and all those things. I absolutely have so much respect for what's going on for DEI professionals. And as like I said, in Texas, Utah, Florida, you all are on the forefront of what could be a policy trend. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:01]: And then on the other side, you know, we've got states that are instituting protective measures for these efforts instead. Do you have any advice for DEI professionals who are out there navigating these waters on a daily? Shawntal Brown [00:28:14]: I guess one thing is please take care of yourself during this time because it's hard. It has definitely been hard. I think that that has been the biggest thing that I feel like I'm still in some ways learning of, like, needing to step away for a moment as much as I'm able to and kind of step back. Because at the end of the day, it's like it's a very large thing that's happening, like, across the United States, across specific states. And I think if you have the support to lean on someone else or to tap in someone else to kind of be there for you as you kind of, like, take that moment to yourself is really important. I think it's a tricky thing, but I think that's something that I wish I kinda had that person, like, in the midst of things changing or learning about the legislation. I kinda wish I had a tap and being like, hey, Shawntal, you need to go sit down for a moment. You need to rest for a moment. Shawntal Brown [00:29:04]: And that has been something that I feel like that is at the core now. For me, it's just kind of slowing down, taking the step away, reading a book, meditating, whatever I need to to kind of repour my cup for myself and to kind of still understand the the current landscape that we're in. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:20]: It's such simple and beautiful advice, but so hard to actually do. The delivery of that is really challenging, I think, in the hustle and bustle of our present day. Shawntal Brown [00:29:30]: Yes. But it's a good like a reminder. So check-in, it's kind of like check-in like, Hey, how are you doing? And then really kind of assess like, what makes sense for you to like, continue in the day. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:41]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:47]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world and a lot of things happening. Though we're past the NASPA annual conference, there's a number of other professional development opportunities that are coming up. One such event is the 2024 NASPA Mid Level Administrators Conference. The early registration for this conference closes on Friday, March 29th. Join us in Indianapolis, Indiana for a transformative professional development experience tailored for mid level student affairs professionals like you. Discover cutting edge strategies for organizational leadership, master the art of managing from the middle, and unlock your full potential in influencing change. Connect with peers, exchange insights, and build a robust network of allies to support your growth. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:32]: Don't miss out on this opportunity to level up your skills and take your career to new heights. Register now and embark on a journey of growth, learning, and connection at mlac 2024. The conference itself runs from June 13th to June 15th in Indianapolis, Indiana. If you want more information, go to the NASPA website and find out more. The 2024 Women's Leadership Institute is running from December 10th through 13th in San Diego, California. ACUI, Association of College Unions International, and NASPA are partnering to bring you an experience focused on women leaders in higher education. This institute offers strategies for women who plan to lead with lasting impact. ACUI and NASPA are seeking programs that will inspire participants to become an inspirational and effective leader. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:23]: The program is designed by women for women. If you have a program that you would like to submit, submit it on the NASPA website by April 26th to be considered for this. Some of the topics that the Leadership Institute looks to cover include supervision and performance management, strategic planning, financial well-being, upskill, reskill the bridge to the future, delegating and giving away, picking up new skills and putting things down among others. Again, the deadline to submit your program is April 26, and I encourage you to go to the NASPA website to find out more. Volume 25 of the Journal of College and Character is out. And as a NASPA member, you have access to the Journal of College and Character among a number of other great journals that will help you in your own professional development. This peer reviewed publication has a number of amazing articles that are in it. And in this issue, there are a ton of peer reviewed articles as well as some specific focus areas on student engagement with spiritual and secular world views, diversity and social justice and interfaith cooperation. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:36]: I highly encourage you to check out the Journal of College and Character for yourself. If you've never checked out the journals, go to the NASPA website, highlight publications, and go down to the Journal of College and Character. You'll also see the other 3 journals that are available for NASPA members, the Journal of First Generation Student Success, the Journal of Student Affairs Research and Practice, and the Journal of Women short course that is happening between March 25th April 26th on basic counseling skills. This short course is a primer on the fundamental critical topic of mental health and how to support students on your campus and beyond tailored for non clinical professionals. The program will focus on hands on skills needed for empathetic listening and effective referral making based on NASBA's book, Basic Counseling Skills for Higher Education Professionals, topics include anxiety and depression, sexual assault and violence, well-being and burnout, current trends in student mental health, making referrals, student support, and more. You can register for this short course on the NASPO website. This course is set up as 5 60 minute live sessions that'll be held every Wednesday at 1 PM EST. They're scheduled for March 27th, April 3rd, April 10th, April 17th, and April 24th. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:02]: Again, go to the NASPA website and learn more. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, Hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents, association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:25]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:30]: Chris, we really appreciate you always updating us on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Shawntal, that means we have made it to our lightning round of our show. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. Feeling ready? Shawntal Brown [00:35:44]: I'm ready. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:45]: Alright. Let's roll. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Shawntal Brown [00:35:50]: Because I'm gonna say Texas Hold. I'm gonna be Beyonce. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:52]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you wanna be when you grew up? Shawntal Brown [00:35:56]: An astronaut. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:56]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Shawntal Brown [00:35:59]: Oh my goodness. I would say doctor Sophia Morin at the University of Oklahoma. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:05]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Shawntal Brown [00:36:08]: Not necessarily within student affairs, but I would say Set Boundaries, Find Peace by Nedra Glover Tawab. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:15]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic. Shawntal Brown [00:36:18]: Oh, goodness. I watch a lot of true crime, so that's probably what was something I was watching during that time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:24]: Number 6, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Shawntal Brown [00:36:28]: Oh, that is You Need to Hear This by Metro Global Chihuahua. Wonderful, wonderful podcast. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:33]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Shawntal Brown [00:36:37]: Oh, goodness. I like to thank my husband, Cody. He's always there listening to me, listening ear. I'll shout it out to my family in Oklahoma and all the folks that I have made friends with and and who have supported me in the state of Texas. There's a lot of people, but I hope they all know who they are. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:54]: Well, it's been wonderful to learn from you today, Shawntal, and to hear your perspective on the evolution of DEI work in these states that are becoming more challenging to deliver that work in on a daily. If anyone would like to find community with you after the show, how can they reach you? Shawntal Brown [00:37:09]: Yes. I'm really active on Twitter. It is @ShawntalBrown, capital s, capital b. You can find me there. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. And then I also have a Instagram, Shawntal_ or Shawntal_brown_22. So happy to connect with folks on all those platforms. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:27]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Shawntal Brown [00:37:29]: Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:33]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices from the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:14]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by Dr.Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

This special episode focuses on the history, present, and future of LGBTQ+ people and issues in higher education. Panelists Jonathan Poullard, Dr. Becki Elkins, Cole Eskridge, and Dr. Quortne Hutchings join us to reflect on ACPA's role in making higher education a more queer-friendly environment for students and practitioners alike.

In this episode,  Dan and Lauren are joined by Dr. Melissa Rocco, Senior Lecturer of Higher Education and Student Affairs Administration in the College of Education and Social Services at the University of Vermont. They delve into Rocco's transition from student affairs to a leadership faculty member, discussing the challenges and unique insights she gained from her diverse roles in consulting, academia, and professional associations. The episode highlights Rocco's contributions to leadership communities through her work with ILEC, ACPA, and NCLP, as well as the 2024 Leadership Educators Academy and Leadership Educators Institute. 

In this podcast, we sit down with Cpt. Gary Russell to learn about the insider secrets of aviation safety management. From the recent Alaska Airlines blowout to the current 2024 pilot shortage and the use of diversity hiring. We also cover important topics like the controversial 737 MAX and the rigorous training that's required to be a commercial pilot. Stay informed and improve your aviation knowledge with this insightful conversation. Twitter: @garybrussell  -- Captain Gary Russell is a Boeing 737 pilot based in Vancouver, and is a former union executive for the Air Canada Pilots Association. Prior to his appointment as the Association's Chairman, he served two terms as a national board member and has been actively involved in the Association over the past decade, including as a local pilot representative, magazine editor, trustee and Chair of the External Affairs Committee.   Like many pilots in Canada, Captain Russell began his flying career as a flight instructor and later a pilot in Northern Canada and overseas before being hired by Air Canada in 2007.   As Chairman, Captain Russell presided over board meetings and acted as the pilots' principal representative to Air Canada on employment matters, including negotiation and administration of their collective agreement and was the official spokesperson for ACPA.   The Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) currently represents approximately 4,200 commercial pilots, with 600 previously furloughed during the COVID crisis all of whom have now returned to active status. These highly skilled professional pilots fly passengers and cargo across Canada and around the world on Air Canada and Air Canada rouge.   Gary resides on a farm in Comox, BC with his wife, Chantal, and son, Ben.

In this season of the SA Voices From The Field Podcast, we had the privilege of delving deep into the world of job placement and career development in higher education with D'Najah Thomas, a dynamic figure leading The Placement Exchange (TPE). Her insights reveal a holistic and innovative approach to connecting talent with opportunity in student affairs. Transitions in Student Affairs: A Modern Take It's no secret that the job market in higher education has undergone significant shifts, particularly with the advent of virtual platforms. Thomas brings a refreshing perspective to the conversation, emphasizing the need for psychological safety and well-being during the job search. As TPE adapts to an increasingly digital landscape, it prioritizes mental health by advocating for scheduled breaks and creating virtual lounges for decompression—a much-needed change welcomed by both candidates and employers. The Crafting of TPE's Identity Thomas's journey to the directorship at TPE wasn't a conventional one. With a background in marketing, public relations, and a stint in the non-profit sector, she found herself drawn to the world of student affairs through a combination of chance, economic circumstances, and personal choices—highlighting that a nonlinear career path can lead to fulfilling leadership roles. Her diverse professional experience, enhanced by her empathy and commitment to supporting others, is now channeled into redefining TPE as a central hub for career development. She envisions TPE as a platform that not only facilitates job matching but also serves as a resource for continuous professional growth. Empowering Job Seekers and Recruiters Thomas is keen on equipping job seekers with tools for self-advocacy and proactive searching. TPE's year-round job board and the on-demand TPE Academy sessions affirm her resolve to meet modern job seekers where they are. Similarly, she encourages employers to highlight their values and culture authentically, showing that recruiting in student affairs must evolve beyond mere job advertising to a more strategic and narrative-driven approach. Looking Ahead: A Future of Innovation and Inclusivity  With initiatives like TPE Talks addressing hot topics in employment and the WRAP Session focusing on diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility, TPE is broadening its impact beyond job placement. Thomas reimagines a future where TPE continually adapts to uphold a vibrant, healthy, and diverse workforce in student affairs. Thomas's work with TPE exemplifies strategic transformation driven by understanding and meeting the needs of its community. The focus on accessibility, storytelling, and mental health showcases TPE's commitment to harmonizing candidate and employer expectations within an evolving digital world.   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton, she, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Hey, essay voices. We've got a really awesome episode for you today all about the placement exchange or TPE for short. So I'm pleased to welcome D'Najah Pendergrass Thomas, sheher, who is a practitioner and whose work is centered around organizational behavior with a focus on recruitment, professional development, and career advancement. She's committed to helping organizations and communities bring about transformational change in these areas. And currently, she is serving as the director of the placement exchange, which is also a partnership of AUCHO-I and NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:53]: In this world, Inesha works directly and closely with a planning committee of professionals from across the field of higher education and student affairs to drive equitable and inclusive practice and innovation to deliver transformative networking communities, knowledge resources, job search, and recruiting experiences that cultivate and sustain a diverse and robust workforce in higher education. Before coming to TPE, D'Najah worked for 9 years in residence life and housing. Prior to that, she served as a marketing and communications practitioner in the nonprofit sector with Goodwill Industries of Southern Piedmont, The Florida Bar, and The Florida Psychological Association. D'Najah is past president of North Carolina Housing Officers or NCHO, and she also served in other leadership roles with NCHO and the Southeastern Association of Housing Officers or SEHO. She was a 2018 participant in NASPA's Mid Managers Institute and served as faculty for SEHO's 2021 regional entry institute or RELI. D'Najah also finished her term with a Kujo AI's 2021, 22 Leadership Academy cohort. A native of Charlotte, North Carolina, D'Naisha holds a master's of divinity from Duke Divinity School, a master of science in sport management from Florida State University, and a bachelor of science in public relations from Appalachian State University in Boone, North Carolina. Whether you are a candidate looking for a job this year or thinking about looking for a job this year or an employer who has an entry to mid senior level job to post, this episode, I hope, will be a wonderful resource for you so you can learn a little bit more about how the placement exchange process has grown and changed over time. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:27]: Don't miss this one. Hope you enjoy our conversation. D'Najah, welcome to SA Voices. D'Najah Thomas [00:02:33]: Thank you for having me. I am excited to be here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:02:36]: I'm really thrilled to help you have you on the season at this moment in time, especially in our theme of transitions in your role at TPE, I think that you personally hold a lot of keys to success for people in the profession. And especially given the changes that are happening in TPE right now, it's a great time to talk about all of the things. But before we talk about all of the TPE things, I'd love to get to know you a little bit better because you've had some interesting transitions in your career as well from housing professional and, I believe, training as an attorney to the TPE space now. So tell us about you. D'Najah Thomas [00:03:10]: I was an attorney. It's not quite that exciting, but I will tell you a little bit about what I've done before coming to TPE. My background is actually actually in marketing and public relations. So I did undergraduate work in North Carolina with great dreams of working for an NFL team. I thought that I would travel and do on-site communication and public relations. And so that led me to get a master's in sport management at Florida State University down in Tallahassee, Florida. And then that program was my 1st interaction with student athletes. And so while working on my degree, I worked with at risk student athletes in academic services. D'Najah Thomas [00:03:45]: And I had the luxury of graduating in 2008, which if anyone can remember, was the recession. And so I humbly took my brand new master's degree home to North Carolina and started searching for a job. And so I spent a good bit of time volunteering while looking for work simply because my mom, as an educator, was of the background. You get stuck in your own head when you're looking for a job and you can get discouraged. And she suggested that I volunteer. And so I volunteered like it was a full time job and landed in non profit work, particularly crisis support services in North Carolina. And to be transparent, if you live in the South, particularly North Carolina, it is, still called the Bible Belt. It's deeply steep in religion, particularly working in crisis support. D'Najah Thomas [00:04:27]: The questions were typically existential. How did this happen? Why could this happen to me? Oftentimes, how could a god be god allow this to happen to me? And in the course of serving people, I thought I will either get a master's in counseling or maybe a master's in divinity. And I chose the route of divinity school and so I landed at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. And they mentioned this opportunity to be a graduate hall director while in the program. And so I thought anything that will help me save money on the cost of this degree is going to be a wonderful opportunity. And so I landed in residence life and housing as a grad hall director while working on my master's of divinity. And so during the 3 years that I spent at Duke, I realized that college students were amazing. They are complex. D'Najah Thomas [00:05:09]: They have great demand. They are extremely diverse, and they were very much and are very much looking for a relationship, mentorship, and support. And so as a grad student, I found they liked me a little better than the professional coordinator because grad students are where they wanna be. They're gonna graduate and they wanna get master's and doctoral degrees. And so, residents and RAs alike would just hang out in my apartment. I would host programming for them, all while working on this master's of divinity. And my 3rd year in divinity school, a full time position opened. And I was eligible because I had the previous master's and so I did what I honestly would not recommend to anyone. D'Najah Thomas [00:05:44]: I worked full time on that last year and stayed a full time student because I just didn't wanna pass up the opportunity to be able to get the position at Duke. And so that is how I landed full time in student affairs. I was a resident life coordinator at Duke University. And so stayed in Durham for about 5 years and moved on to Wake Forest as an assistant director, staying in residence life and housing. Had the joy working under doctor Kitty Ryu, who was a great leader and really believed in what we were trying to do in Residence Life and Housing. She's NASPA famous. She is NASPA famous and rightfully so. And so in my the 1st year and a half in my role, we actually did a full reorg in our department. D'Najah Thomas [00:06:21]: We did not have full time residence hall coordinators. And so in the spring of 2019, we fully reorgued, went to TBE in LA, and bought on 7 new full time live in staff members, which was pretty important because halfway through their 1st year the pandemic happened. And we recognized that had we not had full time staff living in, there's just no way we would have survived supporting students, in the ways that we needed to. And so the next part I shared transparently because I think it matters with how I work with PPE and how I approach talking about career trajectory with people. I got pregnant and had a pre work for baby in the middle of the pandemic. And so, residence life and housing was very demanding at that time and work and life just were not meshing. And so, I had to start to look for other opportunities and very regrettably didn't wanna have to leave residence life and housing, but knew, you know, you have to make some life choices. And so the position with CPE opened up and I thought, gosh, this will be a wonderful opportunity to help meet our field at a place that was a point of crisis. D'Najah Thomas [00:07:18]: Right? Trying to retain staff in the middle of the pandemic. Campuses were triaging vacancies everywhere. And it would give me the flexibility to think about what I needed to do to be a mom to a brand new baby. And so I applied, interviewed, and in about 6 weeks found myself in the role as Director of the Placement Exchange. And so I bring to the role a little bit of nonprofit work, a little bit of student athletics work, and a whole lot of housing and residents' life experience coupled with supervision, hiring, and retention. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:45]: That's an incredible journey, and especially to an organization like TPE where you can keep a lot of the skills you learned in your on campus experience by also bringing your nonprofit based experience. And I'm realizing now where I accidentally referenced an attorneyship, and it's because you were working with The Florida Bar as well as Florida Psychological Association. And so with all of those experiences kind of creating a melange of things for you, what is life like now given that you're serving professionals instead of students? D'Najah Thomas [00:08:15]: Life is amazing. Part of my work with TPE has really helped me solidify what I work with candidates around, which is understanding your story, your values, and your overall professional goal. And so when I look back at my career, I think the thread that ties it all together is relationships and investing in the success of others. And so for a while, that was student athletes. Before that, that was in the sports arena, that transition to serving people in the nonprofit world, coming back to my students at Duke, and then becoming a supervisor, particularly being very invested in the career trajectory of those that I supervise. And so, now I find myself with TPE being able to concentrate and be less of a generalist, but to spend so much time thinking about how to support the goals and the career trajectory of both who are doing work that I love so much. And so now my days are are filled with understanding what's coming out of SHRM and coming out of corporate HR and following trends on our campus and in our field and thinking about how TPE can now, in essence, be a career hub for the profession. How can we say to practitioners that this is your career trajectory? PPE is where you can come to develop the skill, review this resource, engage in the support so that you can continue to be a knowledgeable and competent and competitive candidate? And on the other side of that coin is how can we say to employers recruiting, retention, and advancement of staff really is a free market. D'Najah Thomas [00:09:42]: Meaning, they've got a set of skills and a salary they're looking for, and you now have to showcase how you are a place that people want to work at, and that the package you have to to offer is competitive. And so, how do you look at your efforts around recruiting, and interviewing, and hiring, and onboarding, and retaining staff, such that when you sit down with a candidate, you can say, This isn't just any assistant director role. The assistant director role on this campus is going to provide you with these opportunities, support you in this way such that you don't wanna walk away from this opportunity. So that is how everything I do is centered. How do we really equip these practitioners? And then how do we empower employers to see themselves as great places to work and be able to really share that with candidates in the process? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:24]: Now TPE is short for the placement exchange. I think it's its own living acronym. Now people just kinda know what it means if you've been in the field for a hot minute. But it's also a joint partnership of Akuhoai and NASPA and also serves as a hub for professionals who are not affiliated with either of those organizations as people search for student affairs in higher ed positions. What is the experience of a candidate today who's utilizing TPE? D'Najah Thomas [00:10:52]: Sure. I hope that the profession as a whole. It experience even though we are serving the profession as a whole. It has expanded. We now have a job board that is 20 fourseven, three sixty five. So I hope people aren't up in the middle of night. You feel the urge at midnight, you can go to the job board and look for that next job. If you do that on the weekends or whatever that looks like for your schedule, it's available. D'Najah Thomas [00:11:22]: And it's got the features that now allow you to upload your profile and resume at a level of comfort. So it can be fully visible by employers who are looking to hire. It can be one level down, which is what we call confidential, in that they can see the content of your resume, but not your identifying information. But if I were to message you as an employer and you choose to do so, you can then disclose who you are. Or it can be fully private, meaning it's there and as you see an employer that you may have interest in, you can share that resource with them. That's something that has been added on since what we've been known for. The once a year in person week of interviewing that happened the week before NASPA. So I appreciate now that we recognize, right, people are looking for a job 365 days a year. D'Najah Thomas [00:12:02]: We cannot make people wait until March to get their next job. So being able to offer the job board with some customizable options for candidates is something that we're really proud of. The other thing that I'm really proud of for candidates, and I hope they would say they are appreciating, is how we've taken the TPE Academy and really tried to make it more accessible for the year round experience. So it used to be being a part of the academy was from November to March, it was much more like a mentorship experience and culminated being in person. Now we create the sessions on demand and candidates can go to the YouTube channel and access any one of those 6 sessions. Right? So again, at a time that works for you, whether it's October, February, or April, you can have access to those resources in a way that your lifestyle and fits your schedule. So again, just thinking about the things that used to be centered around that once a year experience and expanding those to be accessible anytime a candidate would need that. We still keep our Candidate Development Subcommittee and so we still offer those year round webinars. D'Najah Thomas [00:13:00]: And what I appreciate about those sessions is they don't feel very stiff and structured. The content is there but our presenters and speakers are very engaging and the pace still allows for question and answer, learning opportunities, almost like a workshop. Like, we may pause you and have you do an activity, do some reflection, and engage. And so we are still trying to make sure that we serve on a larger scale to everyone who may need us, but not without having that personal experience and that interpersonal connection that we've been known for. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:30]: So the addition of the psychological safety piece, I think, is incredibly important from a candidate experience, especially knowing that there's a lot of reasons that someone might not be able to share with their current employer that they're looking or maybe they just don't want to. That's also fine. I also really appreciate the expansion of the academy and this on demand element because it really is meeting candidates where they're at in the modern era of search. So for those who are listening who may be newer in the profession, my 1st job experience job hunting experience in student affairs was at TPE in the year that ACPA and NASPA were last combined for a joint conference. That thing was bananas. I think I did 45 to 60 interviews in 3 days. I had a pair of extra tennis shoes in my bag. I had physical thank you notes with me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:21]: There were candidate physical Dropbox mailbox systems that were just organized but chaotic at the same time. And it was also a place where I feel like more of the candidates were like myself in their 1st or second job search, not necessarily in their mid or senior level spaces. And I believe that has shifted quite a lot in the last several years. So who's in the TPE now in terms of the level and type of position that candidates are looking at and employers are hiring for? D'Najah Thomas [00:14:50]: Sure. You know, you shared a memory that just stuck with me. I was not at that particular one, but I remember being in San Antonio. And the way the my my boots. It was huge. And you have the candidate's a through m, n through z, and there were just hundreds and hundreds of people and hundreds of tables. And when we decided to go virtual, what you just shared is what we really listen to from candidates. I had a lot of listening sessions and I listened to people say I had 30, 40 interviews and, I was so stressed that an interview would go terrible and I didn't have time to, like, gather myself. D'Najah Thomas [00:15:31]: And then it was a trickle down effect or I was at a table and I had a hard time focusing because the interview was right next to me or sitting in the waiting room and hearing people talk about their number of interviews and struggling with comparison. And I remember as an employer just reminding candidates, you don't need every job, you just need 1. And I remember pausing interviews and saying, I don't think you have the stamina to show up well, and we reschedule you. And so what I appreciate now about us being virtual is the ways in which we are advocating for protecting the schedule of both candidates and employers. So we do last the full week, but we offer block. Our schedule builds and breaks. It's virtual, so we can't regulate everyone. But we highly recommend that people take the lunch break, take the afternoon break, adhere to the block, pause and go to some of the round tables. D'Najah Thomas [00:16:17]: And right now that we are virtual, you can go into a space. When an interview ends, don't book back to back. Give yourself a chance to go into a space, decompress, review that, drop into the candidate lounge, talk with 1 of the subcommittee members to just kind of help you have a better mental health experience through the process. And we actually do that for employers as well because we have to remember that people are away from their responsibilities on campus while doing these interviews. And I remind employers that they are being interviewed as much as they are interviewing candidates. And so you get distracted, you get fatigued. Some of these things that we are embedding because we are virtual are to help you show up, your best version as an employer, to the candidates who are giving you their time and trying to tell their story to you. And so I really do appreciate that the virtual space is allowing us to prioritize mental health, psychological safety, and well-being of everyone who's currently involved, for sure. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:12]: The experience of the employer shifting as well, I think, is a very big deal because I think, especially as younger professionals, our instinct at the beginning is, you know, my job is to show up and show out, and the employer's job is to judge me. At least that's how I felt in my first TPE. And now it's I think we're trying to do more to push more of a balance that it is a mutual understanding of if this is gonna be the right job match. From the employer side, what else is new or changing for them? D'Najah Thomas [00:17:41]: Sure. From the employer side, a few things are new with the virtual experience. We really did listen to them 2 employers when they said, you know, it may be virtual, but we used to have reception. We wanna build that warm connection. If we can't physically touch or see other same spaces with candidates, how are they going to feel our full spirit, our vibe? We used to have swag. We used to fill mailboxes with all these things. And very lovingly, I said, there are ways that you do this now, but it has to actually be with the meat and the substance of who you are. And so you actually have to help candidates want to work for you because of the substance of what you offer, and you can do that. D'Najah Thomas [00:18:20]: So my coaching conversations with employers now are a lot about, tell me about your team, tell me about your campuses, tell me about the affinity spaces and support that is available to your staff. Talk to me about your professional development opportunities. Because this generation of candidates is very interested clear pathways to advancement? What is their supervision and leadership going to be like? And so I said employers, your booth, it's the sims. So that part is still fun. Your booth is fully branded. You can hyperlink it to videos. You can show a day in the life of. You can showcase your campus and your teams in ways virtually that you actually couldn't do in person. D'Najah Thomas [00:18:58]: You couldn't pick up your campus. Everybody just had the floor extensions with their brand on it. So now with your booth, you can use imagery, but you are linking to all of the resources and information that your campus has to offer in a very nicely branded way. But on top of that, your engagement with candidates is now about who you are, what you believe, what you value, and what the candidate experience will be. And so, in short, I'm finding that we are helping employers learn what it means to recruit, which is something other industries have been doing for some time, but I do think it's very new to student affairs. We knew that people were going to go to the graduate program. They were going to graduate, and they were going to need an entry point. And we just kind of knew that TBE would be that funnel. D'Najah Thomas [00:19:41]: But we know that the pipeline into the profession now looks different. And so virtual really does allow us to still serve that pipeline but also expand. Like your earlier question was, who all the CPE serve now? I am excited to say that we serve the full profession. We really do stop before you kind of get to the executive search firm level. That's not our wheelhouse. But up to director level positions, they are there in terms of employers posting those positions and candidates that are currently in the candidate pool. And I say that very excitedly because we are really carving out supporting those who want to do a nationwide search. There are lots of regional groups and associations that can do in person placement. D'Najah Thomas [00:20:16]: And I think that's wonderful. If you know you're gonna stay in the Northeast or the Southwest, and you can be at your conference and have that interview process, absolutely go for it. But if you know you're in California and you want to look at Illinois and Michigan and Virginia and Texas or a couple of different states and you don't want to break the bank as a candidate or if as an employer you want to cast the largest net as possible and you don't want to have to pick up and take a a team of 6 or 7 or 8 people, the virtual platform allows us to do that for everyone who wants to do it. Being virtual now lets us say that engaging in CPE is free for all candidates. That was a huge one. I just feel like it says something about an industry when you have to pay to get your job. We all want people to have to pay, let alone go into debt or use a credit card to get their next job. And so virtual allowed us to say, if you're looking for a job and you wanna meet some great employers, create a free candidate account, participate in the career fair, let our employers recruit you, and then in a few weeks, come back, have those interviews and hopefully find your next job. D'Najah Thomas [00:21:23]: Same way we say to employers, if you are a community college or a small college a limited budget, you are on the same footing as the flagship institution for whatever state you're in. It's the substance that you have that puts you in front of candidates and allows you to say to them, we have something that you want, and we would love to have you be a part of our team. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:21:42]: I just wanna reiterate one thing that you said, which is that the placement exchange process as a candidate is free to you to use, which is such a critical point that wasn't always true. I believe I registered for a fee when I originally went through many years ago. It wasn't high if I recall, but, you know, it's still a fee. So I really appreciate that that is a major positive change for candidates. So if you're looking for a position this year, please register with TPE. It's totally free for you. Now if I'm an employer, let's talk about how much it might cost my institution. D'Najah Thomas [00:22:16]: Again, I can say it's probably going to cost you less than you ever remember. Like, full transparency, when I went to LA in 2019, we were in the 1,000 of dollars to have our booth, take our staff, to pack up all the slack, to stay in the hotel. Employer booths are only $475, And that is to keep it comparable with the actual technology that we use for the platform. And so in that employer booth, you can have up to six recruiter seats and each recruiter can run their own schedule. So if anybody remembers CPE in person, it was a table and you often ran 2 interviewers per table. And some employers ran 2 tables. You can do that with 6 recruiters and 1 booth. So you can have up to 6 interviews if they're individuals or 3 interviews if you run them in pairs for 475. D'Najah Thomas [00:23:04]: We are not in the business of trying to to bankrupt anyone. We actually want to make it as accessible as possible for our job seekers and our employers because that is how the field wins. When we can bring the largest pool of talent together and the largest pool of hiring employers together, I believe that both sides will be presented with option and possibility and increase the likelihood that we make really strong career matches across the field. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:30]: I love that. That's amazing. D'Najah Thomas [00:23:31]: It makes me smile. So I'm glad it makes you smile. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:34]: Absolutely. So as we look forward then, there's already been, I believe, at least 1, if not 2, virtual events that have happened this year. There's another couple major ones coming back up, including one that will be concurrent with the NASPA annual conference. So this episode should be airing right before the conference begins. If I haven't registered for TPE yet, but I want to, what do I do now? D'Najah Thomas [00:23:58]: All you have to do is go to our website, which has not changed. We're never gonna change that web address. It is www.theplacementexchange.org. You will see virtual placement highlighted on our web page. Click that live green button, register, and join us. Registration takes about 30 minutes. Setting up your booth only takes 30 minutes. I did it just to be sure I was being truthful when I tell an employer anyone can do it, anyone can do it, and then you have full access to to our registered candidates and the ability to participate in placement. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:30]: You mentioned value congruence as probably one of the number one things that this generation of job seekers needs in their employer. How are you seeing employers demonstrate their values in a way that is really digestible for candidates? D'Najah Thomas [00:24:43]: I think, again, it starts with us introducing career fairs. We really wanted there to be something between I see a job on a site, I do my own kind of investigative research, and I hope they interview. I believe in the power of storytelling and human interaction. And so us since starting the career fair before placement has really been a great place for employers to do that. So there's what I see on your booth in terms of your printed materials about your your campus. I am now clicking to have a conversation with a recruiter and we are really working on helping candidates understand the questions to ask and the follow-up questions to ask. Ask. And so it is developing those conversational skills to engage in active recruiting. D'Najah Thomas [00:25:23]: And so I may say, you know, I read these are the values of your institution. An employer may say, yes. We value creativity, exploration, leadership, and service. Now in our in our recruiting chat, I can say, well, tell me a little more about how the value of service is played out on your campus. Often times employers are gonna talk about the student experience. And I say, as a candidate, when you listen, tell me what it is you're really wanting to hear and how do you have the question to get to that answer. So we kind of walk through scenarios and then the oh, they talked about the student experience. Well, they that sounded wonderful for students. D'Najah Thomas [00:25:56]: Can you tell me a little bit more about how this value, is experienced or plays out for your staff? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:02]: Mhmm. Mhmm. D'Najah Thomas [00:26:03]: So it's just keeping the art of engagement. And we do the same with employers because this is new to engage in recruiting as well. So we talk about when you when you choose recruiters, you want to choose people who, a, understand the values, the mission, the vision of your university, who can talk about their own experience with them to showcase that congruence. And I recommend you collect stories of your colleagues, of your team, of your peers that can validate that or affirm that. I also talk to my employers about transparency to say these things are so aspirational and here's where we are in working towards this. I think this is a wonderful generation of candidates that appreciate the honesty and the transparency. So even if you tell me you're not there yet, if you can tell me how you're working towards it, I'm gonna appreciate that you didn't tell me a lie. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:50]: Yeah. For sure. D'Najah Thomas [00:26:50]: That you have that awareness, and I have an understanding of how you're still trying to get there. And so it's not a ding to you as an employer if you haven't hit everything inspirationally. It's your ability in preparation to talk about how you're working towards it and what you have in place to bridge that gap if you're not there yet. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:08]: Let's talk a little bit about the numbers. How many candidates and employers and jobs are in the TPE portal at any one given time and particularly during high season of hiring? D'Najah Thomas [00:27:19]: Sure. At any given time, we average between two 50 and 375 for jobs monthly. And so I give the average because we have new jobs posted. We offer 30, 60, 90 day postings. So we're in that 2 to 300 range on average per month. We currently have about 380 candidate resumes on the job board. That's the year round component. And we have about 600 employers who are in our system. D'Najah Thomas [00:27:45]: They may not be currently posting at the time, but they have posted in the past calendar year. Those numbers are continuing to grow as we continue to, a, inform people that we have a job work because a lot of people still just know us at the event. So as we continue to tell that story, those numbers increase. I am excited with placement that we are seeing numbers to start to increase to what they used to be. I told you the background in PR and marketing comes in hand. It helps me develop patients. Our field loves the things that have been a part of our journey, And we know that change is a process. And so replacement, our candidate numbers are are very quickly getting to what we are familiar with, closer to 300, 400 candidates. D'Najah Thomas [00:28:22]: Our employers are slow to adopt. And so our hope is as we continue to grow and employers continue to have that positive experience, a, that their testimonial, their validation, and their word-of-mouth will help. We are also marketing though, making sure employers know our candidates are getting it. We're getting up to 300 plus candidates almost to 4. And so right now, we actually are almost a 100 registered employers, which means there's almost a 100 positions. So it's a position per employer that they're being hired for. And they are from early career to senior, mid level, or senior level positions. And so I am just telling employers, you are looking for the candidate. D'Najah Thomas [00:28:56]: I can tell you where they are. They are leaning into technology. They are leaning into equitable access. They are leaning into spaces that fit better with their time and their schedule to look for a job. And so we are pacing it year by year to help employers see that we've heard what they were looking for from the in person experience, and we can't copy and paste, but we can find ways that technology allows us to reach that goal. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:17]: I always say that transition and change always takes at least 3 years in higher education. 1 year to formulate and push the change out, the 2nd year to work out the issues or the kinks with it, and the 3rd year to let it fly and see if it actually works. It's because our profession is so cyclical. The hiring quote unquote season in higher ed really only happens once a year en masse, but it is it is all year round. But you're not gonna see if the impact is is what you're hoping for for a while, and that's just true for anything in higher ed, I think. So I'm hoping that our show and featuring TPE can help others discover you again. D'Najah Thomas [00:29:53]: Well, I appreciate that very much. This role as a former practitioner on the campus has helped me lean into we talk about redefining success. We easily say it, and then you have experiences that require you to live that amount. Up. Rebranding and restructuring CVE has really challenged me, and I've embraced what it means to redefine success. And so right now, redefining success is not the highest registration numbers. It is listening to those who were leaning into this process, say that it worked and they experienced an improved week going through the process in this way, hearing people say, oh, this felt very innovative, or this was engaging, or this was fun. Words that we used to hear from the in person experience to now hear them in the virtual experience lets me know that we're headed in the right direction. D'Najah Thomas [00:30:34]: So I'm very much leaning into the feedback from our participants to make sure that we are hitting the mark with what equals a quality experience for them. And I believe that as more people have the quality experience, the numbers will do what they need to do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:47]: Well, I think the number one thing that virtual space creates is accessibility. Right? And that's accessibility in a lot of different ways. But when I was, working as an AVPDOS at a large public university, you know, it made the TBE process possible for us because we couldn't afford to send 7, 8, 9 recruiters to the experience. But we could say, okay. Let's pay 1 fee, and we can post our hall director positions. We can post some assistant director positions, and we can try to find our people, this way. So I think that's that's all good stuff. What other transitions and developments have come about for TPE that you want our listeners to know about? D'Najah Thomas [00:31:25]: Sure. I think the the next big piece is what's happening in terms of programming and in the social media space. So we are about placement. We absolutely want people to connect employer to employee and find those jobs and make those hires. But again, as we think about being a career resource, it also means creating space to talk about and address the factors that impact our ability to retain staff and advance staff in the field. And there are some very role factors that we have to think about broadly if we're going to get the talent and keep the talent. And so, a big thing that I'm proud of is called TBE Talks. It's from our 2 planning committee chairs. D'Najah Thomas [00:32:00]: Every last Friday of the month, they get on the TPE Instagram live account and they talk about hot topics. So anything that is making someone think about, I don't wanna do this job anymore or what's driving my search for the next job, they talk about it. And I don't hang out in that space because I really wanted to be a free space for peer to peer conversation and engagement, and those conversations have been wonderful. The 2nd piece that will launch in March that I am extremely excited about is the one that I get to host. They're called TPE WRAP Session. And the sole subject of those conversations is around diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility, and how that is impacting our ability to recruit, retain, and advance practitioners. And so each month, I'll have a guest join me to have that conversation. And so it varies. D'Najah Thomas [00:32:46]: My first guest is going to be someone who was the director of HR and DEI for a West Coast campus. And so for people to be able to hear how campuses are doing this work, get some ideas, ask them questions, and then I'll talk to some practitioners about their journey and their experience in the field. But I really want us to create spaces to just talk about the importance of accessibility, the importance of DEI, and how that's impacting the talent in our field, whether they're staying or going, moving up, or whatever that looks like. I think there's no harm in having a space to really have that niche conversation. So those are 2 big things coming up that I'm really excited about is offering to the field. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:25]: And repeat for us how people can listen into those dialogues? D'Najah Thomas [00:33:29]: Sure. If you want to listen in to TPE Talks, you can go to the TPE Instagram account on Fridays at 2 pm and join them live. If you want to join us for the wrap sessions, they happen the last Thursday of each month. And again, our website is magic. You go to our website and go to events. You'll find the link to join those when we are live on those last Thursdays of the month. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:53]: Any final thoughts on TPE's evolution from you, D'Najah Thomas [00:34:02]: 3rd year in the role, and this is the 3rd iteration of TPE in a virtual space is what you really alluded to. Right? We were really trying to fine tune what it means. And although it's a 3rd iteration, what I would say to the field is it's just an indicator that we're listening and that we are committed to refining it until we create what it is the field needs. And so I am excited for TPE to continue to evolve, to be a career hub for our field because I think that is the way forward for making sure that we can sustain our workforce. And not just have those bodies in seats, but make sure that our workforce is fulfilled and healthy and vibrant and able to have the creativity and the flexibility to do the work that they need to do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:43]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:34:50]: Thanks so much, Jill. Glad to be back in the NASPA world, and there's a lot going on in NASPA as we prepare for the 2024 annual conference. One of the things that I wanted to talk about because we're talking about the placement exchange today is that there are opportunities within the placement exchange for your organizations to be able to find those employees that you need. Many of you may either be looking for jobs or may be looking for individuals to fill positions. And TPE, or the Placement Exchange, is the largest career placement resource in student affairs for over the last 15 years. TPE is committed to helping employers and job seekers in our industry find each other and build our community one great job at a time. The methods and practices for job searching and hiring continue to evolve, and TPE is also working, as we've been hearing about, diligently to deliver the best in technology and innovation as well as accessibility, affordability, and dependability when it comes to recruiting and retaining talented professionals in student affairs. I know you've been hearing about it a lot today, but I'm going to plug it again. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:36:03]: To go to the placementexchange.org to find out more information. Another great opportunity for you to explore is a new partnership that is called the Program Review Collaborative. This was developed in collaboration with organizations such as the Association of Colleges and University Housing Officers International, the Association of College Unions International, NASPA, and the National Intramural Recreational Sports Association. The PRC is a new joint venture aimed at enriching departmental reviews through the guidance of seasoned experts. These associations bring together a wealth of knowledge, resources, and a unified commitment to advancing the work of campus of campus professionals and institutions alike. PRC reviews focus on appraising the strengths and opportunities of a department with particular emphasis on staffing, administrative processes, programmatic offerings, student engagement mechanisms, and collaborative ventures within the broader campus community. Find out more at program reviewcollaborative.org. Finally, thank you to everyone who voted in the annual NASPA leadership elections, which closed on February 8th. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:19]: We are thrilled to announce the following results with each position following the NASPA board of directors for the terms noted. The board chair elect is Michael Christakis, vice president for student affairs at the University of Albany, the region 2 director, Chaunte Hill, vice president for student life athletics and campus services at St. Joseph's University, region four east director, Juan Guardia, assistant vice president for student affairs and dean of students at the University of Cincinnati, and region 5 director, Carnell McDonald Black, vice president for student life at Reed College. Congratulations to all of these new leaders that are going to be leading NASPA into the future. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you wanna give back. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:38:40]: Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association, and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:27]: Chris, as always, you just do such a wonderful job with keeping us updated on what's going on in and around NASPA. Thank you for all you do with our NASPA World segment. Denasia, we've reached our lightning round. I have 7 questions for you in 90 seconds. Ready to start the clock? D'Najah Thomas [00:39:43]: I'm ready. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:44]: Alright. Number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? D'Najah Thomas [00:39:49]: It would be Beyonce's I Been On. It's such a fierce song, and it reminds me to know that my track record is pretty good, and I don't need to be nervous about what I'm about to do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:00]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what would did you want to be when you grew up? D'Najah Thomas [00:40:04]: I wanted to be a bank teller because they always handed out lollipops when I went with my parents to the bank. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:10]: Number 3. Who's your most influential professional mentor? D'Najah Thomas [00:40:13]: My most influential professional mentor would be doctor Stephanie Carter Atkins. He is the embodiment of servant leadership, and she taught me extreme patience as a supervisor. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:24]: Number 4. Your essential student affairs or career read. D'Najah Thomas [00:40:27]: Oh, my essential read would be Dare to Lead by Brene Brown. It leads me into some vulnerability that I had to really work through to offer to my staff, but was transformational. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:38]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic. D'Najah Thomas [00:40:41]: During the pandemic, there wasn't a lot of TV because there was a kid in the house. But I would say that My Guilty Pleasure was The Real House 5 series. You could pick 1. They were always on A&E. So yeah. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:53]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. D'Najah Thomas [00:40:57]: Harvard Business Review. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:58]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? D'Najah Thomas [00:41:03]: I would love to give a shout out to my partner who is also in higher ed and helps me find a way to navigate both of us reaching the goals that we have. I definitely wanna give a shout out to black women who are doing this work. They are my sisterhood. They are my network, and they are my support. And I am always here for empowering them. And then lastly, I have to give a shout out to my TPE planning committee, both current and past. TPE, when I say we, it's just me. And so without my planning committee, I would not be able to do what I get done. D'Najah Thomas [00:41:32]: They continue to be a dream team, and I love them dearly. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:35]: Denasia, it has been a pleasure to have you on SA Voices and get to know more about how TPE has been changing and evolving to meet the needs of the modern candidate and the modern employer as well. If folks would like to reach you or TPE, how can they find you? D'Najah Thomas [00:41:50]: Sure. If they would like to reach me or TPE, they can come to the TPE website. Again, it's www .theplacementexchange.org. You can click about us and get in touch with myself or our general email account. You can also follow TPE on Instagram, Facebook, or LinkedIn. If you put in the placement exchange on all 3, we will pop up. There's no competitors. You'll definitely land at us, and I do my best to get back to people as quickly as I can. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:17]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice and the new story of TPE with us today. D'Najah Thomas [00:42:22]: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a wonderful conversation. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:28]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at essay voices at NASPA dot org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:43:09]: This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton. That's me. Produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Embracing change and adaptability has been a focal point in the latest episode of 'Student Affairs Voices From the Field.' Host Dr. Jill Creighton sits down with Dr. Denny Roberts, who has beautifully woven his international experiences into the fabric of student affairs. In this blog, I delve into the highlights of their conversation and explore how Dr. Roberts' insights can inspire and guide student affairs professionals in their practice. Understanding Diversity Beyond Borders One compelling topic from the episode was the discussion around diversity in Qatar versus the U.S. Dr. Roberts and Dr. Creighton highlight that when working internationally, one must redefine what diversity, equity, and inclusion mean within the context of their environment. Dr. Roberts emphasizes the importance of cultural understanding in fostering engagement in highly diverse student populations. This urges professionals to prioritize intentional efforts and practice humility to make substantial connections across varied cultural landscapes. Fostering Multicultural Engagement The challenges that Dr. Roberts faced in Qatar's Education City showcase the complexity of creating universal student experiences without imposing one's cultural norms and expectations. He underscores the necessity of professional development and immersion to truly engage with the local culture. The emphasis is on the importance of educators obtaining a deep understanding of the cultures they serve, which is crucial in respecting the choices and experiences of international students. Transitions, Writing, and Contributions Dr. Roberts' journey through various career and geographic transitions sheds light on his decision to step into consultancy. This choice was driven by a desire to maintain personal freedom and a passion for writing—something he has continued with zeal post-retirement. His contributions in philosophy, history, leadership, and internationalization highlight the valuable interplay between practice experience and scholarly activity in student affairs. Multipotentiality and Identity An intriguing element of Dr. Roberts' narrative is the idea of being a 'multipotentialite.' He describes the traits—idea synthesis, rapid learning, and adaptability—which mirror his approach to student affairs and consultancy. This concept adds another dimension to understanding professional identities within the field and encourages embracing one's diverse skill set. Reverse Culture Shock and Moving Forward Dr. Roberts' return to America after living abroad opened a discussion on reverse culture shock. His advice for professionals seeking international experience is thoughtful and grounded in choosing deep, reflective opportunities over perfunctory resume enhancements. His message: be transformed by your experiences and seek an environment that respects and enhances your growth. Conclusion Dr. Denny Roberts' experiences and insights provide a compelling narrative for those in student affairs. They encourage educators to be adaptable, culturally sensitive, and intentional—a lesson in how one's experiences can shape not just personal growth, but also professional practice in diverse environments. Ultimately, his journey teaches us that transitions can be an avenue for development, inspiring new approaches to leadership and inclusion in the field of student affairs. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This Podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host.  Dennis C. Roberts is an independent consultant, speaker, and author. He last served as Assistant Vice President of Education for Qatar Foundation. During his seven years with QF he worked with Qatari and expatriate colleagues to create the student development and support services for its branch universities at Education City in Doha, Qatar. Prior to working abroad, he was Associate Vice President of Student Affairs at Miami University. He is past president of ACPA-College Student Educators international, and has been a member and presenter at the National Association of Student Personnel Administrators and the International Leadership Association throughout his career. He has authored 6 books and over 50 book chapters and other articles on student affairs, student learning, leadership, and internationalization. Denny, welcome to SA Voices. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:00:25]: Delighted to be with you today, Jill. This is awesome. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:27]: It is such a thrill to be able to speak to you in our theme of transitions this season. You have had quite a few career transitions, both in your identity as a professional, but also in your physical location. And in our preshow chat, I also got to know you and I share a lot of transitions in common, so I'm excited to dig into those. But I always like to get started with a question of how you got to your current seat, and your current seat is consultancy, which I know a lot of student affairs professionals kind of weave in and out of or move through after a VPSA position. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:01:01]: It is kind of an interesting transition because I had done Consulting before, you know, when I was full time employed and that kind of thing. And when I decided that it was time to return to the US from Being located in Qatar, I kinda struggled. Do I wanna continue to work full time and therefore take another job at the US or do I want to do something else? And a variety of circumstances, both personal and professional, caused me to think, you know, I really am kinda tired of going to the office every day and having somebody else tell me to do is. So I thought, maybe I can make this consulting thing work. And I also had just a gob of Ideas in my head. And I've written, you know, quite a bit during my career, but there was just this whole backlog of ideas That came to me from working abroad, and I thought, you know, if I'm tied to go to the office every day, I'm not gonna get these things Done. And what's really been fabulous is my writing has actually accelerated in retirement. I don't know if that will continue or not, but it's been terrific. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:02:04]: And I've had so much fun writing with younger colleagues who have fresh eyes, with international colleagues To have a totally different perspective. And the character of my writing has really, I think, Changed in this post kind of and I like to call it semi retirement because I can't give up. Right? So I really have not adopted an identity of being retired. I'm still very actively involved, so it was a real decision, personal and professional, that I just wanted more freedom. And fortunately enough, I was very blessed with having had a career that gave me enough economic needs to say that I didn't need that monthly salary. And that's a tough decision To make 2 in terms of how much is enough. Anybody that is facing the potential of retirement, you have to kind of gauge, like, what what's What's the lifestyle I wanna have? And I decided that what we had was very much something that would allow us stability, allow us time to do what we want. My wife was retired at that point already as well, and we decided to move to Chicago to be close to our grandkids. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:03:08]: So, that was all a part of the scenario about How I got to the, current semi retirement status that I'm in. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:16]: You've been quite a prolific author and student affairs is with over 60 journal articles and peer reviewed journals. I believe you've either edited or, coedited. Is it 6 books as well? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:03:27]: That's correct. Yeah. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:28]: So with all of that, how has your voice as an author evolved from your very first publication through when you kind of felt like you were churning a burden and now? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:03:37]: When I first Started writing, and I was extremely fortunate to have matured in 2 settings that were very, very influential for me. One was Colorado State University, and the other was University of Maryland. Both of them and I was a 1st generation college student, so I was kind of clueless about what the academic world really was all about But I had some really good coaches in the early days who urged me. They said, If you wanna be in student affairs, you need to also contribute Intellectually, you can't just be a practitioner. So I had role models at both institutions that urged me to start writing. And the early pieces that I did, I mean, one was I got involved in the whole issue about the age change for alcohol On college campuses, and so 18 to 21? Correct. Yeah. And I stood in opposition to that, Which was kind of an unusual position to take at the time. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:04:34]: And so that was kind of an opportunist publication, but not one that is deep in my heart. So After that, I started working more to just write about things that I really cared about, and that I felt like I had really learned something, And then I had something to offer, which is really very different than what a faculty member experiences. And even though I've Taught both at the graduate and undergraduate levels. I was never driven by tenure and promotion to write certain sorts of things That get into the literature in a specific sort of way. So I were really informed by my practice Experiences throughout my life. So, you know, if I was struggling with a particular issue at a certain time, then I tended to use writing as kind of almost my public Journal, this is what I'm thinking. And I don't know frankly, when you write, you never know who's gonna Be touched by an article that you write, and it's kind of a mystery to me in terms of who does read things that I write. But I Have had feedback from some of my articles or chapters that my narrative style speaking from personal experience, That reflection has been helpful for other people, and I think that is a different kind of writing than sometimes you would see in a typical kind of Tenure track publication driven, you know, kind of an environment. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:05:54]: So my publications for the early start was kinda just but then it became much more purposeful and more deeply reflective as I've gone on. And the areas I've published in that I'm most proud of are kind of student affairs, Philosophy and history, leadership, and then internationalization. Those are the 3 areas that I've most enjoyed, and I hope that the contribution I've made there has Made some difference to shed some light on those topics. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:20]: Am I hearing you as maybe an early adopter of autoethnography as a research style? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:06:25]: Probably. And I wasn't even aware That as a style. I had no idea that that's what I was doing, but yeah, that really is kind of where I'm coming from. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:33]: I think my qualitative professor might be mad that I just called it a would want me instead to call it a methodology. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:06:40]: Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yep. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:41]: Well, Denny, you also have had a prolific as a campus based professional and then transitioned off of a campus. So why don't we talk about that? You were at University of Miami. Is that Miami, Florida or Miami of Ohio? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:06:54]: No. It's Miami University of Ohio. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:56]: I apologize to the state of Ohio. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:06:58]: You have to flip The words there. So yeah. But Miami University in Ohio is where I was. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:02]: And you had, what I understand to be a fairly traditional rise in student affairs going from junior roles to mid roles and finally to that VPSA role. What was the state of the field when you determined it was time to go overseas? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:07:14]: Well, the idea of going overseas Cheese was really kind of planted through a previous experience at Miami, and the Miami, and you'll be very interested in this as a person interested To the study abroad, they have a bubble program in Difertaj, Luxembourg. And I heard about their invitation for visiting scholars, which were typically Play usually faculty that would do those roles. Well, I applied for it even though I was an administrator and I got it. And so I got to spend a semester in Luxembourg, and then during that time I taught and mentored students, and then I also wrote Actually, one of my books, which is deeper learning and leadership, which came out in 2007. So I worked very, very hard every week, And I had a Eurail pass, and so if I met my writing objectives, then on Friday morning, I hit Eurail. And I would go someplace. Well, guess how many writing deadlines I missed? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:10]: All of them? None of them. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:08:13]: 0. I missed none of them. So every weekend I went someplace you know so I'd go to paris I'd go to berlin I'd go to fiena I would We'd go all over Europe on my Eurail pass because it didn't cost me a thing. And every place I would go, I would land, and I'd find a cheap place to stay, and I would start walking the city. You know, that's what I would do every weekend. And so that just exploded my idea about what it's like To be in other cultures and to learn from other places and to be respectful and attentive to the differences from myself as an American versus all the other worlds. And that happened in 2005. And then I just kind of ruminated for a while about, well, what was that all about? And Finished the book, got it published, all that kind of thing. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:08:59]: And then Qatar came to me just out of the blue, and I had not applied, but they came to me and invited me to apply For what was a newly created possession, which was the role was to coordinate student services and development activities across the 8 branch Universities that they had then attracted to, the Education City campus in Doha, Qatar. And simultaneous to this, which is just A very, very strange, fortuitous sort of thing is that my daughter, Darby, was graduating from Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, And they invited her to go to their Carnegie Mellon branch program in Qatar. So Darby accepted the position first. They came to me subsequently. My immediate reaction when I was invited was I asked Darby. I said, Darby, this is crazy. I mean, your father's gonna follow you halfway around the world in your 1st job. I mean, Can you deal with this? Would this be okay? And she said, oh, of course, dad. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:10:00]: No problem at all. So I applied and they hired me and then I went over and that was in the fall of two And I went over for what was supposed to have been a 3 year contract, which was then successively extended to 6, And then extended to 7. And then finally, after 7th year, I said, I really need to go back, and I need to be with my family. Unfortunately, my My wife was not able to go over and live with me over there even though she came over on a quarterly basis, and we talked every day. But that's one of the challenges of expat work Yes. That always get to take your family with you, and that's not always convenient. And so you have to kinda figure out how that's gonna work. So that was a huge transition Culturally, professionally, personally, I mean that was the real kind of just crazy paradigm change for me when I went to Qatar. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:10:52]: So I grew up in the Middle East a little bit. I had my earliest years in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and it's a very different cultural space. I also have spent some time in the UAE and then have good colleagues in the Levant region, as well as, you know, just kind of all around the GCC or the Gulf Coast region. On the show last season, we had a good colleague from Kuwait and then also in the season prior, colleagues from Qatar as well and from Kuwait. And we hear that the the needs of students are just extremely different. For those who are not familiar with Education City. As Denny mentioned, there are more than 8 now branch campuses in Education City in Qatar. I believe it's more than 8 now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:32]: And they have attracted or kind of what I would call joint venture opportunities, really, where students from the local region are coming in earning degrees with university names that a US audience are probably a little more familiar with. But it's not as if you can just transplant all of these Americanized ideals into this environment where the value system is extremely different. So how did you adapt what you knew and what you had been practicing and researching to this environment that you didn't know at all. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:12:02]: The Qatar Education City campus, it does have just 8 universities. And, well, 6 are American universities, one is European, And then there's their homegrown graduate school, which is called Hamid bin Khalifa University. So it's the 8 institutions and they They are not joint degrees. They are in the local environment. What's fascinating about what they've been able to do in Qatar is that the degree requirements Are exactly the same as the home campus. So if you get a degree from Carnegie Mellon in computer science, The curriculum is identical. And if it's Texas A&M engineering curriculum, identical. So and actually, the degree is granted from the home Campus rather than it being there as a local in Qatar, you know, kind of a degree. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:47]: So it looks exactly the same when you're done. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:12:50]: Exactly. And so, You know, part of what the goal was was to replicate the student learning experience between the US Or European, and then the Qatar example. What's interesting about that is that student affairs is very much a part of Most institutional cultures in the US. And for the most part, the colleagues that I worked with in Qatar, particularly those that were Country or were GCC Air World colleagues, they had no idea of what student affairs was about. Even for those that studied in the US, there's a tendency, at least among the colleagues with whom I interacted, there's a tendency for them to Not engage in the same sorts of ways when they're in the US. So I had lots of colleagues that went to US institutions That didn't even know there was such a thing as a student affairs division, and what value did that bring, and that kind of thing. So a major major part of what I Did there was to raise awareness of what student affairs was as a historical and philosophical and research based Commitment. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:13:56]: And that I have to say, worked in some examples, and I'm thrilled that it stuck. In other examples, that never really did take, and I think that that's really something that international student affairs educators have to face. Some of it's gonna stick, Some of it isn't, and some of that is because of the differences in culture. And I'm sure you know from your Riyadh experience and UAE experience, I mean, the background that a student brings to the learning environment very clearly impacts the way that they're going to engage, and that relates to Everything from deference to authority, to gender roles, to freedom of thought and expression. I mean, there's just all sorts of things. And what's really interesting is to try to contextualize the values that student affairs can bring to another culture, But not do it in a way that judges other people's way of being. I learned so much from some of the students, for instance, that came from Pakistan, or from India, or from North African countries, where the environment of their expressing their views And actively engaging would have been politically dangerous. And as educators, even though I value democratic Education and full engagement, I had to understand that I was potentially educating a student with a tool that could be dangerous for them In terms of personal or professional welfare. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:15:30]: It's a really interesting tension, and that doesn't mean abandon the values and the purpose that we have as student affairs educators, but it does mean you need to understand the cultural differences, and you need to respect the choices that students have to make that might be different than what you would find in a US kind of a setting. Did you find that in your in your work in the UAE and Saudi Arabia? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:55]: Well, I was only in the UAE for a hot second, and, it was really as a visitor when I was working for NYU in the past. But I think my most relatable experiences as a CSAO in in China for a couple of years, and that institution had students from 70 countries. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:16:11]: Yeah. Well, we had a 100 in in In Qatar. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:14]: So when you have that level of diversity, it's just very different than what diversity is conceptualized as in the United States. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:16:22]: Correct. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:22]: And then even in my mind, what what the priorities are and diversification are different. And the way that we talk about inclusion and access in the US is actually quite ethnocentric to the US, and I don't think that we acknowledge that all the time. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:16:36]: Amen. Amen. I mean, no, I mean, that's a really distinction, and I think that the focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion is very important to in the US, and translating that in an international All setting is very appropriate. However, the way that you define it and what you understand to be diversity needs To be conceptualized in a different sort of way. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:58]: Well, absolutely. And the campus I was on had about 60% students from China mainland and then 40% students from the rest of the world. And and so when we look at that, it was also all of a sudden your majority identity is not students who come from privileged backgrounds from a majority ethnic white background. It's Han Chinese all of a sudden, and so then the world shifts in terms of what you understand. And so that was just quite a part quite an interesting part of my experience and a huge transition for me in the way I conceptualize things. I'm wondering for you then, Denny, if You could talk about what's the number one thing you found in terms of a universal experience amongst students in a setting that diverse. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:17:39]: Well, Certainly, their interaction with each other was very, very powerful, and this was actually one of the things that I advocated Very, very strongly. Some of the branch programs tended to want to kinda develop their own identity of their own students kinda within the bubble. So The Northwestern students would hang together. The Georgetown students would hang together, etcetera. And that kinda happened naturally because each of them had a separate building. But while I was there, We built a student center that was a shared space, and so the shared space was supposed to bring everybody together and It was just overwhelming. Students just loved it. You know, we had the bowling alley and the sports complex, and we had the Convenience shopping, and we had meeting rooms, we had a theater, we had an art gallery. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:18:29]: I mean, we had all of that that then Brought people together. And we eventually built residence halls as well. And the residence halls again, you know, it was not clustered by your academic experience, but it was mixed up In terms of both your academic experience and your cultural experience. So it was very very clear that our Students there and you would hear different languages, different styles of dress, all of that all the time. And I assume that you've observed the same sort of thing. So diversity of thought and culture and background is ubiquitous. That is the experience. And what's interesting about it Is though and we actually conducted the national survey of student engagement of the students over there to see what the real impact Was and while the opportunity for exposure across culture was clearly there as a Ubiquitous experience, engaging in it was a different matter. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:19:25]: And if you look at US experience too, just that diversity is on the Campus doesn't guarantee that there is multicultural engagement. There has to be intentional effort to make it happen. There has to be willingness. There has to be respect and humility. You have to have all of those things, and that was a startling realization In terms of just because you have students from a 100 countries doesn't mean that you're going to have a multicultural experience. You have to work at it. And this is something that student affairs really is so strong in in comparison to other academic areas and so forth. But again, as we're saying, It can't be replicated right straight from the US. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:20:05]: The principles of it, the philosophy of it, I think can be transferred, but how you do it has to be different. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:11]: One other thing that I always try to conceptualize is how do I help lead a team to create a universal student experience without kind of engaging in colonialism is the best way I can put it. And that's so tough. Right? Because my training, my education, and my experiences are primarily US based. And so as we look at you know, we are privileged people to be able to live and work in another country. We are also being asked to be there because of the knowledge base that we bring and also trying to figure out how to do that in culturally appreciative ways of the environment that we're in. So can you talk about maybe a practice or some sort of departmental shift that you had to make to really engage the cultural elements of where you were compared to what you knew. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:20:56]: I used some of the tools that I had used previously in my career. So particularly because There was really not a base of understanding student affairs from a research and theory and publication point of view. We did a lot of professional development efforts, And we did that actually in concert with some US institutions. We established something that we called the Qatar Foundation, YPI, Young Professionals Institute. And so we hosted institutions like Colorado State, Maryland, San Diego, who would bring their students over, and we would have these 2 week Experiences that were intensive cultural immersion, and then working in teams to bring ideas about Student affairs practice, but then to to recreate it as a cultural context. So we would have half US graduate and young professionals, and half Qatar based or Arab world based people that were interested in the field or employed in the field, and would they would work in teams together on certain kinds of topics. So for instance, one of the topics that was just wonderful to explore was the influence of family. And of course, US students are all talking about, oh, it's Important for you to be independent and autonomous from your families and so forth. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:22:05]: And our local Arab world colleagues and Asian colleagues were saying, no. Not so much. Not so much. And so literally, the US students relearned in very powerful ways. But on the other hand, Our Arab world colleagues, our Asian colleagues also learned the merits of fostering independence and autonomy while doing it in a respectful sort of way of Environments that are very, very family oriented. One of the things that I also did personally was I practiced Very deep humility on a regular basis, humility and curiosity. And I had several cultural informants, who were colleagues who were willing to give me the the straight scoop about how I was coming across. Oh, that's Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:49]: so important. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:22:51]: Oh my gosh. It was incredible. I would not have survived without them. No way. And so I would regularly meet with them and ask them what was Going well. What was not going so well? And they would tell me. And that was difficult at first because not only am I a Privileged white American. I'm also old. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:23:09]: I have white hair. And so in the cultural context, the reverence For somebody of my makeup was very significant and I really had to build trust so that people would tell me the truth. Because when you're in that kind of a position as a privileged white American or really kind of like as any kind of an American or European, you have to understand your Privilege. And if you don't understand your privilege, you're likely to do exactly what you suggested, which you will become a neocolonialist. You will impose your idea on other people whether it fits or not. And man, I just I learned so much from that. And I learned a term recently Lee, that I I think is kind of a really fun term. Have you ever heard of the term multi potentialite? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:52]: No. That's new for me. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:23:53]: It's actually TED Talks by Emily Wapnick. And when I listened to it, I kind of went like bingo. And all my career life, I've had wonderful jobs, and I've had a lot of fun, and I've had some Pushback in terms of I sometimes kind of have a different way of seeing things. Well, this multipotentialite thing has a lot to do with it. And the 3 characteristics that she identified are that they tend to be, very good at idea synthesis. They secondly are rapid learners, so they catch on quickly, and they they go for it while sometimes other people are kind of dragging their feet. And then thirdly, they're very adapt Across environments. And those things, I think, really, really helped me in the Qatar example. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:24:34]: And I think it also relates to just My identity as an artist because, you know, I have an undergraduate degree in music, and musicians are always looking for relationships, and harmony, and sequence, And patterns, that's who musicians or artists are. And I think I actually express that in my work in Some pretty interesting ways. And I'm saying this because I think some of us that may look a little different or think a little bit differently than colleagues around us sometimes End up feeling as if that were not appreciated or were not affirmed. And I think it's really important to kinda look at your own gifts and try to figure out how that they fit With any particular work environment or any particular calling that you may want to consider. And that has a whole lot to do with this whole transitions theme of Knowing yourself well enough to know your strengths and weaknesses, and then identifying opportunities where your best gifts are gonna meet the The needs of a particular environment, and you're gonna be able to be effective in that other setting. And for the most part, I've been lucky. I had a lot of good lands, Couple, that's so good, but that's kinda the luck of the draw with some of that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:43]: Let's talk about the transition of reverse culture shock. That's a rough one, and reverse culture shock, meaning you decided to return to the US to settle into semi retirement. You've been living in a different cultural context for 7 years at that point, but coming back to a context that you're supposed to know and understand well, but maybe may not make as much sense to you in some ways anymore or may make more sense to you in some ways. So what was that experience like? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:26:09]: Yeah. Well, the first thing that I noticed was that People didn't really care. And that was frustrating because I learned so much from the work abroad experience I wanted to share. And so on numerous opportunities, I waxed eloquently about my work abroad experience, and eventually, I started noticing the glazed eyes And the fact that people just weren't interested. And that was disappointing to me as a reverse culture shock issue. I thought That my American colleagues around here would welcome that more. So I became more selective in terms of how I offered my point of view. And lots of people that I interact Now I have no clue that I've worked abroad and what my experience has been, and that's totally okay. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:26:53]: But I I had an urgency of wanting to share it. I think probably came from just Self processing. So it was self processing publicly by talking to other people about it. So that definitely was something. Our choice of coming back To a setting that was more inclusive and had more diversity in, and it was also very purposeful. I was still working in Qatar in 2012 when we actually purchased our home and my wife moved to Chicago. And we moved from Oxford, Ohio. And, Oxford, Ohio is a Small town, kind of a bubble kind of setting in itself, not a lot of diversity. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:27:27]: I knew full well there was no way that after working abroad, working with diverse colleagues, Working with diverse students, then I would be able to come back and and really enjoy a setting that was more homogeneous. So Chicago worked really well for us. We live in a very diverse neighborhood. Lots of internationals or expatriated people live in our neighborhood. Lots of cultural Diversity, socioeconomic diversity. I mean, I live in Wilmette, Illinois, and for those who have stereotypes about Wilmette, park them someplace Because, yes, there is the the North Shore Sheridan Road version of Wilmette, and then there's the version that I live in. And the version I live in is actually very diverse and very, very interesting. So the choice of where to come back as an expatriate, I think, is very important. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:28:12]: And that both relates To if you come back to work someplace, as well as to come back to live someplace. I think you don't just come back and replug in to the old way of being Because the old way of being is gone. It just doesn't exist, and you're not comfortable there anymore. So I was transformed by my experience and very much sought Diverse experience, diverse exposure, and then dialing it down in terms of sharing my international wisdom. I share that in my writing. I don't share it in my personal interaction with people. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:45]: Yes. And now you're sharing it on our show, which we're very grateful for. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:28:48]: So, I mean, that was so powerful. It was, really wonderful. And for people that might want to consider international experience, it is a transition out and then back. And you can look at Transition experiences that you've had in other work or personal circumstances to look at the kind of strengths and challenges that you faced, And then figure out how to navigate in ways that that do not violate your values. And that's a really important part of this too is understanding your values well enough to know where Where do you have some flexibility versus where can you adapt and do it in ways that are gonna be both to your benefit and the benefit of others? Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:25]: What advice do you have for US based student affairs pros who might be looking for jobs in Education City or really anywhere outside of the US? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:29:34]: They're kind of idiosyncratic in terms of the selection processes are not as transparent as they are in most US settings. And so at least in my experience, I don't know how this compares with yours, but it's not unusual at all for Referrals to be made on a personal basis rather than for there to be a an application process that you throw your vita or resume into the pile and it gets sorted out. So taking on experiences that allow you to tiptoe into it helps. I mean, my Luxembourg experience clearly Was tiptoeing into international work, so it was a temporary period. It was like a, you know, faculty study abroad program is basically what it was, and I think one of the things that I worry about a little bit is that sometimes I think people think that excuse me for being negative about this, But I've seen some study tours quote that are more what I would call ecotourism. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:29]: Academic tourism. Don't even get me started. It's a whole thing. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:30:32]: Okay. Well, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And that's not enough. If you're gonna choose an experience to Travel abroad, and you want to do it in a professional developing sort of way, then choose something that is a deep dive in terms of culture, requires lots of preparation in advance, requires lots of reflection during and after the process. Don't just go there to be able to notch it on your resume, travel to x number of countries. That just doesn't work, at least for me. And I I don't mean to be critical because I know all of these are steps toward being more internationally aware. But if you're in a student affairs position, you Kinda wanna consider this internationalization thing, then do it deeply. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:31:14]: You know, find a program that really is gonna give you a deep dive and really engage you in ways that helps you to teach Humility and curiosity. So that would be my advice. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:23]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:31:29]: Thanks, Jill. So great to be back in the NASPA world. Really excited to be able to talk to you about the amazing things that are happening within our association. The 2024 NASPA Student Affairs Fundraising Conference is coming up July 29th to July 31st in Louisville, Kentucky. The purpose of the NASPA Student Affairs Fundraising Conference is to share and exchange strategies, ideas, and resources, And to discuss issues related to student affairs fundraising and external relations. The conference promotes an exchange of best practices, And it is designed for professionals who currently have development responsibilities specifically in student affairs And for professionals with backgrounds and experience in either student affairs or development. The call for programs for this conference is Currently open until February 26, 2024. And if you have an interest in presenting at the conference, I encourage you to submit before the deadline To be able to be considered to share with amazing professionals that are all there interested in the same thing. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:38]: At the same time, we are also looking for reviewers for sessions that are submitted, and reviewer applications are also due by February 26th. Information on both of these opportunities can be found on the NASPA website. If you go to the event itself and click on it, You'll find out more information. Help ensure that eligible students are registered, educated about elections, and turn out to exercise their right to vote by considering to engage with the voter friendly campus program. This is a free initiative that's been growing since its inception in 2016 in partnership with the Campus Vote Project. You can find out more at campus vote Project .org. I know in the past I've talked about the Leadership Exchange as a great piece of professional development. This is a magazine that's sent out by NASPA every quarter to be able to allow for our vice presidents for student affairs to think about Topics that are pertinent to the day to day activities that they are dealing with, but that doesn't mean that if you're not a vice president for student affairs that you will not learn so much by reading the articles that are submitted. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:47]: One such article that I would highly recommend is called budget reduction 101, And it was written by incoming chair of the NASPA board, Anna Gonzalez and Christine Livingston. The great thing about this is that it is giving frontline perspectives on making effective cost cutting decisions and really gets into the mind of the chief student affairs officers on things that they can do to be able to cut costs and to manage Their divisions in an effective way. As I said, you don't have to be a vice president for student affairs to better understand this topic, but you will learn so much From reading this and getting into the mind of vice presidents within our association. If you have an interest in learning more about budget reduction or other topics, I encourage you to go to the NASPA website under publications and go to leadership exchange, and you'll be able to access the winter 2024 issue that does have This specific article in it or many of the other issues that have come in the past that I think that you will find to be Very eye opening. I know I've mentioned this before, but there are some amazing keynote speakers that are going to be at the 2024 NASPA virtual conference That is available April 2nd through 5th, and it's something that you and colleagues on your own campuses can definitely take advantage of Whether you're going to the national conference or not. A few of the keynote speakers that are going to be highlighted That are going to be speaking at the conference itself includes Josie Elquist, who's a higher education digital educator leader and author, Shawna Patterson Stevens. Doctor Shawna Patterson Stevens, vice president for inclusive excellence and belonging At at Central Michigan University and also doctor Kevin Kruger, president of NASPA will be speaking at the virtual conference. This among many great concurrent sessions that are available are going to allow for you and your colleagues to leave the days with So much great professional development and opportunities to be able to learn right from home or right from campus. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:35:57]: If you wanna find out more about the virtual conference, go to learning .naspa.org Forward slash v c dash sessions. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways Because the association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be Getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, It's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might Encourage you might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways That allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, Your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:37:22]: Because through doing that, All of us are stronger, and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:34]: Thank you, Chris, for giving us the latest scoop on what's going on in and around NASPA. And, Denny, we have reached our lightning round. I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready to go? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:37:46]: I sure am. Yep. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:37:47]: Alright. Question number 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:37:52]: Well, I'm a classical musician trained person. It would be, The last movement of Mahler's 8th symphony. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:02]: That'll be a very dramatic entrance. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:38:03]: Very dramatic. Very dramatic. Yep. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:05]: Number 2, when you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:38:09]: Oh, I wanted to be a concert pianist. That was my whole vision of myself as a Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:13]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:38:17]: Wow. This one is tough. I kinda thought about this a little bit this morning because I've had some great Mentors, I have to admit most of them have been women, and one person who is a colleague and mentor is Susan Komovaz. She's a delightful human being, and we Change a lot. Barbara Kellerman in the leadership studies world is somebody that I really respect. Esther Lloyd Jones, I had a chance to know her, and She taught me a lots of things about student affairs and what we're here for, and so I broke the rule. I gave you 3, so that's enough. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:45]: Number 4, your Essential Student Affairs Read. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:38:48]: Essential Student Affairs Read? Actually, Esther Lloyd Jones, deeper learning and leadership 1954. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:38:53]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:38:58]: Oh, wow. Do I have to admit it? Succession. I'm sorry. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:06]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:39:10]: I actually listen to I do listen to this one, and I Really, really enjoyed this this podcast, but I watch, the International Leadership Association podcast, and there are actually a couple of them that I watch, regularly to get the wisdom from those. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:39:25]: And finally, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:39:29]: I thank Chris For introducing me to this opportunity, I think I'm kinda known in the in the professional world as more of an ACPA kind of person. So I don't show up in the NASPA space as As often as I might, even though I've been an ASPA member most of my career. Kevin Kruger was he had his 1st job with me. Yeah. And lots and lots of colleagues that are very active in NASPA, but I have maintained more in the the, ACPA area. And, you know, for me, these professional associations are so important in terms of giving us a colleague network, a way to push our understanding to Standing to learn from each other and that kind of thing. And so I I would give a a shout out to folks like you that are trying to get people's voices out there and get exchanged And professional organizations that allow us to relate to one another and discover how to do our best work. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:40:21]: Thank you so much, Denny. It's been an incredible opportunity to get know you today and your story. If anyone would like to reach you after the show airs, how can they find you? Dr. Denny Roberts [00:40:30]: My professional email is dc roberts48@gmail.com. And in Wilmette, Illinois, I have a LinkedIn profile. I have 2 blogs That I maintain one is called Pursuing Leadership by Denny, and that one's mostly about it has a lot in travel because I started in 2005 when I went to Luxembourg, but it's all by reading that I do on a regular basis. And then the other one's called Global Student Affairs. And that's more about international implications For people that are in student affairs work. So those would be the best ways to get in touch with me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:05]: I'm looking forward to checking out that second one in particular. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:41:07]: Jill, it's been great. Yeah. We have so many nice connections, and I feel like we're possibly birthed from the same parents. I don't know. But Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:16]: I appreciate the deep connections on so many levels, whether it be music or international higher education or student affairs journey or even where we've been in the US. So, Denny, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Dr. Denny Roberts [00:41:29]: Great. Alright. I look forward to seeing you again. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:41:34]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at s a voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill L. Creighton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. Ginz. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:42:08]: It really does help other student fairs professionals find the show, and helps raise the show's profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor Chris Lewis. Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your or as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Adapting to Students' Needs Across Institutional Types The recent episode of the SA Voices From The Field Podcast featuring Hing Potter dove deep into student affairs and the unique intricacies of working at different types of educational institutions. Potter's transition to the assistant director of student life and leadership at City College of San Francisco brought to light his advocacy for student development through inclusion and empowerment, which is a hallmark of his 11-year career. Changes in Professional Focus One remarkable aspect Potter shared was how his professional focus needed to shift as he navigated the diverse environments of 4-year public, 4-year private, and 2-year public institutions. This included adjusting plans and thought processes according to the timeframe of students' academic careers, thereby reinforcing the importance of adaptability in student affairs. Ensuring Continuity and Leadership Another challenge Dr. Jill Creighton discussed with Potter is how to guarantee continuity and develop student leadership within the limited timespan specific to 2-year colleges. Potter emphasized the need for transparency in passing on institutional knowledge, ensuring that successive student councils can uphold and continue advocating for student experiences. Salary Negotiation and Personal Advocacy The episode also highlighted Hing Potter's recent negotiation for a higher salary at City College, a testament to recognizing and advocating for one's value in the workplace. Dr. Jill Creighton's insights into the importance of comparing qualifications with job descriptions, depersonalizing negotiations, and communicating in writing provided listeners with valuable tips for their own career advancements. Upcoming NASPA Events Additionally, the episode provided updates on upcoming NASPA events, such as the 2024 Leadership Educators Institute and the 2024 national conference. These gatherings represent the changing and elevating landscape of student affairs as professionals continue their journey. Hing Potter's story is not just about the transitions within the professional sphere but also about personal growth and advocacy. It teaches us the profound impact of understanding institutional types, the art of negotiation, and the continuous pursuit of fostering student success.   TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:01]: Welcome to student affairs voices from the field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season 10, continuing our season 9 theme of on transitions in student affairs. This Podcast is brought to you by NASPA, and I'm doctor Jill Creighton. She, her, hers, your essay voices from the field host. Today on SA Voices, we are pleased to welcome Heng Potter. Going into 11 years in student affairs, Heng Potter, he, him, main drive has been to support student development by creating space and opportunity through inclusion, empowerment, and self authorship. In his own state of transition this past fall, Hing became the new assistant director of student life and leadership at City College of San Francisco where he advises the Associated Students, overseas student clubs and orgs, and is responsible for the student union. As a Khmer Transracial Transnational Adoptee or TRA and having previous life and work in Seattle, Boise, New York City, San Jose, and now San Francisco, Heng is no stranger to transformative life experience and transitions from one place to the next. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:08]: In the community. Heng serves on the leadership team of the San Francisco chapter of Project by Project, a national nonprofit focused on amplifying Asian American issues, and he also serves on the leadership team of the NASPA Asian Pacific Islander Knowledge Community or APIKC. In his own time, Hing enjoys travel, photography, and spending time with a 17 year old dachshund, Buster, and his partner, Jasmine. Ping, welcome to SA Voices. Hing Potter [00:01:33]: Hi. Thanks for having me here today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:35]: We're very glad to feature you today about your transition that is fairly fresh. By the time this episode airs, you'll have been in your new position for about 3 or for months. But right now, we're sitting at about the 60 day mark. And right now, before we get into all of the details of your transition, I'd love guests to start with how you got to your current seat. Hing Potter [00:01:55]: Yeah. Thank you so much again. Let's see. I came To City College of San Francisco because in my previous role, I felt like I had just outgrown myself. There wasn't much room for need to expand my professional skills or abilities. And I really just wanted to find a new challenge, a new way for me to interact with students, And I think it was just time for me to move on. So, you know, I did the whole thing where I put myself out there as best possible in different Formats apply to different colleges and universities, and City College of San Francisco is one of them, back in, I think, April time. And then I had a Couple interviews, 1 in the end of April and then 1 in the middle of May. Hing Potter [00:02:35]: That interview was all the way when I was vacationing in Spain, unforced I was actually on my way to my cousin's Wedding rehearsal dinner a hour before that. And I had, like, my laptop and everything on top of, like, this ironing board to give it elevation and stuff, And I met with the dean and the vice chancellor at that time. And then, over the summer, I eventually heard back by August. And 2 months later, I'm here. So that's, in a nutshell, what happened. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:03:02]: And you physically moved as well. Yes? Moved cities? Hing Potter [00:03:05]: Kind of. Actually, if we wanna expand this whole transition period, when the pandemic hit in early 2020, that's when I had actually moved from New York City to San Jose, California, so South Bay Area. And that was when I also moved into that new position at my previous role. And then that was an experience in itself because I felt like maybe I was, like, one of the first people to actually move geographical locations in the early onset of Pandemic, and I had left pretty much all of my stuff in New York. I brought a suitcase with me of just clothes, and then I had to ask a friend back in New York to Muster up the courage and go to my apartment and, like, pack all my stuff and wear a face mask and tell her to, like, please take care of yourself. If you don't feel comfortable, Please don't do this. But if it you are able to, I would, like, be more than happy to, like, compensate you in some way, shape, or form. I'll even pay for the shipping, of course. Hing Potter [00:03:57]: And so she was actually very, very, very helpful, and I'm so much gratitude for her for shipping all my stuff out to me from New York to the Bay Area. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:05]: That's a great friend. Hing Potter [00:04:06]: Yeah. Somebody who really went above and beyond the call of duty. And then fast forward a couple years Now from San Jose, I now live in kinda close by Stanford University in between Palo Alto, Menlo Park area. And I'm here with my partner and our little tiny 16 year old, dachshund. So his name is bust. Oh, senior doggy. Yes. He's a pandemic puppy. Hing Potter [00:04:30]: A couple years ago, my partner really, really, really, really wanted a dog, so We finally caved. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:36]: So thinking about all of the transitions that you've gone through, and it's really not just this immediate transition, but Lots of transitions starting about 3, 4 years ago at this point. How did you prepare yourself mentally to throw yourself into new environments and new spaces and new collegial relationships when the world was kind of in upheaval. Hing Potter [00:04:57]: I think for me, coming from New York to the Bay Area, That was definitely a challenge because, you know, initially, I had asked if I could go from New York to my parents in Seattle. And they actually told me no, not because they don't love me, but because at that time, everybody's very nervous about the Pandemic, and my parents are 60 and over. And at that time, you know, elderly people wanna be cautious. And that also New York was One of the early epicenters of the pandemic. And so they actually told me no. I was devastated inside, and I didn't know exactly how I was gonna get out of New York. I didn't know how I was gonna to this new job that I had lined up for myself. I didn't know if it would be safe to fly. Hing Potter [00:05:40]: A lot of things were up in the air. So I must've got my own courage. I bought a ticket actually from New York to Idaho because I went to undergrad in Idaho, and I made a lot of good friends out there. And Idaho hadn't really been hit yet, So I called up my friends there and say, hey. I need a crash over there. Can I hang out with you for a little bit? They're like, yeah. Yeah. No problem. Hing Potter [00:06:00]: Stay as long as you need. Get yourself out of New York. Do what you need to do. So I went to Idaho, actually, and I was there for a whole month, April that year. And then my job was supposed to start in June, and so I needed to somehow then get from Idaho to the Bay Area. So then I ended up buying a car because I realized at that time the pandemic was just getting worse, and flying just wasn't an option anymore for me, Personally, I just didn't feel comfortable. And so I bought a car, and then I drove all the way from Idaho to the Bay Area. It's about maybe 10 hours or so Driving, and I got here. Hing Potter [00:06:38]: And in the whole mist of, like, trying to get from Idaho to the Bay Area, I found this guy on Craigslist who had a extra room in a bungalow house for pretty cheap. And I was like, hey. It's something he told me he that he keeps his place clean and sanitary, and then he takes all the COVID precautions at that time, and I had to trust him and just go with it. So I did that. And then I got there in May, had a couple weeks to just Chill and not do anything, like, literally not do anything because everybody's on shutdown, and I'm just twiddling my thumbs in front of my face trying to stay active somehow. And then 2 weeks later, I start on June 1st at my previous role and went from there. It was a wild, maybe two and a half months or so In that transition. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:20]: So by comparison, your transition to your current position maybe seems a little more mild. Hing Potter [00:07:25]: It definitely. A little bit more mild, a little bit more easy to Navigate. I didn't necessarily have to, like, change states twice. I didn't have to figure out how to get from a to b buying a new car or anything. Or I have a car now. Thank goodness. And I can take public transportation, which is pretty nice. And City of College isn't that far from where I live now, where I as I used to work in San Jose, California. Hing Potter [00:07:47]: When you're now, I work in almost South San Francisco area, so not too much of a hassle there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:51]: Did you change functional areas? Hing Potter [00:07:53]: You could say that. Yes. So in my previous role, I was in student services, which is more comprehensive. It supported students, particularly graduate students, trying to help them with navigating everything From student involvement to student resources to crisis management, title 9 advocacy, and Overall student services operations, so making sure everything from new student orientation in their own transition into the university, All the way to commencement so they're transitioned out of the university. And here in my new role, I strictly just advise the associate student Councils. I support student clubs and organizations, and I'm responsible for the student union building. So a lot more, you know, defined role for me, a lot more Concentrated, which I appreciate, and a big pay bump for me. So I'm I'm happy about where I'm at right now. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:43]: I believe you also shifted from private to 2 year public, which is, I think, a pretty big mentality shift in terms of how you approach the work every day. So tell us about that transition of environment. Hing Potter [00:08:56]: Oh my gosh. That is definitely something of a transition to experience. So I actually used to work in a public institution where I got to experience all that bureaucracy, barriers, and red tape, whatever you wanna call it. And then coming to My previous university as a private institution, you have a lot of leeway to kinda just do what you need to do. You have a lot more independent ability to make decisions and support your students in a more immediate manner. And I had my own university card, which was Super flexible in terms of, like, just making purchases and getting what we needed to have for our next event. You still set boundaries, of course, with their students So, like, hey. You gotta meet some timelines. Hing Potter [00:09:37]: I can't just go out tomorrow and get what you need for the next day, but it was a lot more flexible, I would say. And here coming back into the public sector, you definitely hit the wall really hard In terms of what is allowable in certain time frames and how you can get things done through different mechanisms. I also don't have a university or a college card anymore, so that's very interesting. And I actually had a a conversation with some students today. And Normally on Fridays, they get pizza for their meetings. And so this Friday, because it's their last meeting of the semester, they wanted to kinda have a little bit more of a Grandiose food invitation for people to come and join them. And they they honestly came up to me and said, hey, Heng. I know that this is really Awkward, but would you be willing to help us with, like, food and stuff? And I was like, well, what do you mean? Like, well, are you okay with putting this on your card, and we'll reimburse you? Like, Which is typical at this school. Hing Potter [00:10:38]: But in such a short period of time, I really had to just say, you know what? I can't do this. This is only a couple days notice, and you don't know if I have this money set aside personally for other things that I need to do. And I'm gonna be honest. Like, you guys need to prepare or plan ahead more in advance for something like this. You can't just make last minute adjustments. And the fact that you coming up to me saying, hey. Hey. This is really awkward, lets me know that you know you didn't plan well enough for quite a change in just 2 days. Hing Potter [00:11:07]: So There's that kind of mentality when it comes to how you get funds and resources or how you have to Plan ahead and think about what you wanna do. And at a private institution, you might be able to have a little bit more flexibility with last minute adjustments. But at a public institution, you kinda have to be committed. One of my previous roles when I was in New York at John Jay, all of our clubs had to Submit, for example, a whole year's worth, a calendar of events with budgets for each events, and that was due before classes started in the fall. And these were events all the way from September all the way to next May. And at at private school, you still have a year's worth of events planned out, but you don't have to Necessarily preallocate a whole bunch of stuff that far in advance. So a lot more flexibility in terms of, like, what you can and cannot do. So quickly learning that back here in the public sector on my own. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:00]: Flexibility, but also budgetary privilege. So I think depending on the nature of your private institution, the funds are just unrestricted in different ways where they might be more restricted at a public institution, but also the privilege of the size of the budget Or the different things that you're doing. And it always hurts my heart to hear that a lot of times that students or individual Professionals are funding the work of the university and having it reimbursed. I think that's a business practice that is really challenging because it makes a lot of assumptions, and it also puts the labor on the people that are earning the least. It's just it's a challenging dynamic. Hing Potter [00:12:37]: Me and my new dean, we we talked about how where do we draw the line when it comes to like this. And is this really our problem in terms of using our personal funds, or how much of this is a college problem? The fact that the college doesn't have the mechanisms in place is not my issue, and it's not my dean's issue. It's, you know, the college's issue that They can't have systems where it's more streamlined and it's more beneficial and it's more immediate For the student experience. So that really does impact how they go around doing things. And I don't want students to be spending most of their Time when they're in these leadership roles or in they're in these student clubs trying to navigate these systems. That's not what being involved uninvolved student is about. I want them to be able to just do what they need to do, and institutions in general need to figure out what that is that they can do to kind of, like, break down those Barriers. Unfortunately, it might not always be a college issue. Hing Potter [00:13:33]: It could be a district wide issue, or it could be a state issue. And in different institutions, It could come down to, you know, the registrars or the bursars or whoever's controlling the money for the institution. It could be a specific department issue and a range of things, but Students shouldn't have to be navigating those those types of waters in the 1st place, I don't think. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:13:53]: Other than the budgetary modeling and planning, what are the other differences that you're experiencing moving from private to public. Hing Potter [00:14:01]: Well, one of the things is that at my private institution that I was at, it was a 4 year institution. But I was working mostly with graduate students in tech. And now I'm working with community college students who Have a range of ages and a range of perspectives. And I was also formally more working mostly with international graduate Students. And now I'm working with mostly domestic US students. So that's kind of a shift in itself. Working with international students, you really had to Talk to them a lot more about culture and around how higher ed works in terms of different systems and processes to get their programming in place. Whereas at City College of San Francisco, the students are a little bit more intuitive about these processes because it's kind of built into the culture of, like, going to school and the stuff that my international students were doing, the graduate international students were Very more professional development focused, whereas the community college students, they're more about building culture. Hing Potter [00:15:02]: They're more about enriching this the campus experience. They're also doing a lot of they have this theme this year, informal theme of advocacy. So they're really trying to, like, source What are the issues on campus and how they're impacting students and what their role is in terms of advocating for a better experience when it comes to x, y, and z issues. So Whereas the international students, again, more professional development focused, not necessarily too concerned with the policies and issues that might that you might find at institution of of a 4 year institutions. Kinda some of those on the surface level differences for sure. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:37]: I feel like a lot of Professionals spend most of their career in one type of institution, and you've done 4 year public, 4 year private, and now 2 year public. Kind of looking across all of those experiences. And to overgeneralize to a degree, what do you see as kind of the changes in Foci for you as a professional as you navigate these different types of institutions. Hing Potter [00:16:00]: I think, For me, the focus between we'll just generalize from a 4 year to a 2 year. The focus is at a 4 year institution, You have the ability to work with the students in a little bit more long term opportunity. You're working for example, when I was at John Jay, I'm working with these students who find themselves invested in in programming and involvement and leadership in a more long term plan. Whereas Here at City College, they wanna be done in 2 years. And so they wanna have action. They wanna have things get done a lot more quickly. But, again, kinda going back to the whole bureaucracy machine, how quickly that happens can be different. So it's like I was talking to a student actually the other day. Hing Potter [00:16:47]: We were talking about this whole three five seven plan. What do you wanna have normally happen in 3 years and 5 years and 7 years? And I had to work with the student to say, like, okay. Well, we're at a 2 year school. Instead of 357, what do you wanna have done maybe in, like, 2 semesters, in 3 semesters, and 4 semesters? Because by that time, now the question should be, what have you been able to do in terms of advocating for the student experience that you want? And when you walk away, What kind of legacy will you be proud to have left here at City College that you can say, I did that? Whereas at a 4 year institution, I'm I'm working with students. Not necessarily 357 again, but more of like, k. What do you wanna do in the 1st year, the 2nd year, 3rd year, and 4th year? So it's a little bit different planning, a little bit different, like, Thought process when I'm working with the students in that regard. How do Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:41]: you plan for continuity and student leadership in a model that's much shorter in time frame? Hing Potter [00:17:47]: Oh my goodness. It really does come down, I think, to working with the students on that transition between leadership. So, for example, really working with the council that I have right now and saying, how are we building your council institutional knowledge, And how are we working to make sure that that knowledge is passed on to the next council in a transparent and clear way? What are you doing right now to make sure that if so and so person who follows you in your footsteps, When they pick up the work that you're doing, they can easily see, oh, okay. I have to now do steps 3, 4, and 5 because the last person did Steps 1 and 2. So it really comes down to that clear transparency of what they're doing now, how they're doing it, and Putting it together for, clearly, for the next group. One of the things that we actually talked about coincidentally today is communication. Not just communication between each other today, but communication between a theoretical group that's gonna take over next year And then that group that's gonna take over in 2 years. City College is building its new student success center. Hing Potter [00:18:54]: And one of the big projects that this council wants to have is this social justice mural that will go in the student success center. The building is not gonna be done for another, maybe, two and a half years. So by then, we'll be 2, maybe 3 councils down the road. What does that continuity look like between today and the council that looks To be there in place when the student success center actually comes online. So these are questions that I'm asking of them to consider as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:21]: You've got this beautiful plan going forward, and we all know that with student leadership shifts, priorities change as well. How do you Think you're going to be navigating when the priorities of previous councils don't align with the future councils. Hing Potter [00:19:36]: I think the biggest thing when I'm working with students is really creating a mindset of student Advocacy, student experience, and this notion of student involvement that is meaningful And that is impactful. And so the focus of each council I think it's okay for it to change year over year if that's the case. But as long as it's still centered and rooted in enhancing the student experience or enhancing the Opportunities that students have to get involved and get engaged, grow their skill sets professionally and personally, then I think that's the core thing to to maintain. And that's something that I will always tell students regardless of how long I'm in this field. And that's something that I've always told students for the 10 years that I've been in this field is that priorities change, and that's totally fine. And my job isn't necessarily to tell students what their priorities should be. My job is to tell them, Hey. Your priorities are great. Hing Potter [00:20:36]: They make sense that they're sustainable. But as long as they're rooted in the ability for students to grow themselves. I think that's the most important factor there. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:20:46]: Let's back up a little bit and talk about you as a human doing all of these transitions. So you've created what sounds like a really great game plan for yourself for the next couple of semesters in this new position. But what other factors did you need to be thinking about about entering a new role, especially knowing that the institutional type was going to be a new environment for you. Hing Potter [00:21:07]: Personally, for me, before I came to City College, One of the requirements for me was that I needed them to honor my 2 week vacation that I had that I just came back from a couple weeks ago when I went to Asia. And if they didn't do that, then that was gonna be a deal breaker. And so luckily for me, they said yes. Like, no worries. We'll make it work. We definitely wanna respect that. Another thing for me was just making sure that my own value was seen and met In terms of the abilities that I bring to the table, but also the lifestyle that I wanted to maintain or grow myself. So in terms of, like, a salary, I had to really learn how to advocate. Hing Potter [00:21:46]: This is my 1st time advocating for a salary that I wanted, a salary that I knew that I deserved. I think, City College, they they have this grade step program where I think it's, like, grades 1 through 12 or something. And they posted this position as grade 1, so they were gonna offer me grade 1. And me knowing what I know, how long I've been in the field, I knew that I was not at that value. So I also felt a little bit like, okay. Grade 1 is entry level. You know? I'm I'm justifying these reasons for why I'm not a grade one person. Grade one is entry level. Hing Potter [00:22:23]: I'm well beyond entry level. I have a better understanding of the student experience At multiple different types of institutions, coast to coast, I'm not grade one value. So I actually had to write this out in an email to them to the HR office. And I, you know, came to them with all these points. And the next day, they gave me a call, and I said, Hey. How's it going? And they said, well, we wanted to talk to you about your salary. And I was like, okay. Well, first, before you say anything, I'm sorry. Hing Potter [00:22:51]: But before you say anything, Did you get my email? Yes. We got your email. Okay. Great. And I wanted to ask that because it's super important that we start there because that is what's important to me. That is where I see my value. And what can you offer me based upon me being in student affairs for 10 years, me having all this different and the fact that you came to me asking me to come to City College. And so they actually bumped me up 3 or 4 grades more, which was An extra almost $20,000. Hing Potter [00:23:23]: So when they offered me that, I was like, okay. Now we're talking. Like, I can come to City College now. So it was a lot of anxiety. It was I was really nervous when I'm typing this email out to HR. My fingers were sweating, and I had never really been Taught or told how to write an email out like this or or anything? I mean, people tell you all the time, know your worth. Know what your value is. And I honestly think, you know, it is easier said than done to, like, give this advice to people. Hing Potter [00:23:52]: But when the person who's receiving that advice takes it, Yes. You can receive it. But then when it comes time to execute it, it's a whole another story. Like, you now have to do something that you might not ever have done before. You might have to do something that another person that looks like me, a brown Asian person, might not have ever done before. And so I share this story now because I think it's super important that I have now lived this experience. I have written that email. I've Had that tough conversation with HR to say, this is a deal breaker. Hing Potter [00:24:23]: If you don't see my value, don't recognize me for what I bring to the table, then I don't know if I can come to City College. Luckily enough for me, they saw that and were able to give me what I wanted. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:24:33]: And I think that's great advice. And, also, it sounds like you were willing to walk away if that was necessary. Hing Potter [00:24:39]: I'll be completely honest. I wasn't necessarily happy at my previous role because, as I said, there was no growth you did for me there. I wasn't doing the creative work that I love doing anymore there because I just didn't have the opportunities to to banned. But if City College didn't see my worth or my value, I sadly was going to stay at my previous role and suck it up because It just wasn't something that I really wanted to fight for, to go to battle for. I was making the self conscious decision that Even though I wasn't growing, I still loved the students. And I don't think anybody I'm not saying to do what I do or Think about what I think about, but it's a really sad situation, I think, when people are put into those situations. And having to decide whether you You wanna stay at a place where you have no growth, but you love the students or having to potentially go somewhere else where they might see your value, but you don't know what you're getting yourself into. So it's it's a tricky field to navigate. Hing Potter [00:25:41]: And regardless of who you are, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It just happened to turn out in my favor for me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:47]: We haven't talked a ton about salary negotiation on the show, and I think you've offered some really important tips. Let me repackage them just really concisely for folks who are trying to negotiate for themselves and have never done it before. Step 1 is to compare your resume and your experiences with the job description and really note where you meet and where you exceed those minimum qualifications and those preferred qualifications because that's gonna be your starting point for arguing for more money. It's not really an argument, a negotiation. And I think step 2 is, Ping said it really well, you need to be working with HR, not necessarily the hiring manager, depending on who's making the offer, and it is typically coming from the HR perspective. Sometimes you're gonna run up against a budgetary limitation where there's only so much budgeted for the position and there's not flexibility, and that's something you need to be prepared to here. And sometimes you're going to be in a position like Hain was where your experiences are clearly articulated in a way that the budgetary Alignment wasn't there from the starting spot and you can get there together to an ending spot. But I think another important thing is to depersonalize it a little bit. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:26:54]: So instead of saying, can you offer x? Perhaps can x institution offer this amount of money? And so you're asking what the institution can do, not what the person can do. And that can depersonalize it a little bit and make it really more about the business perspective about what's happening in your salary negotiation. The 3rd piece of advice that I heard from Hing is make sure you do it in writing at first. And then beyond that, you can have that negotiation conversation on the phone. But getting it out in writing also gives both parties a chance to really be reflective and think about things. And that way, it's also not a pressured environment for either party, and no one is kind of at liberty to respond in the moment. They can both go back and take some time. Did I miss any tips from you, Heng? Hing Potter [00:27:37]: No. That was very well, succinctly said for me. Appreciate it. The only other thing that I would Definitely recommend is that when you do go into a different institution and you start looking at how their salaries are structured is really becoming knowledgeable about their pay grade systems and how it works. The California Community College System is a beast, And I wouldn't know where to look because I don't know the system that well. But when I had started looking at the salary options and things like that, A really good friend of mine, doctor Dawn Li from San Jose State University, she had previous experience in the community college system and really gave me some good advice and helped me to navigate some of these intricacies when it comes to payroll structures and how to word things and how to really advocate for yourself. So I really wanna just give a shout out to her and give her all the things and and being able to support me. So having somebody, you know, with that experience in Whatever system you are looking potentially to go into, that's another plus on your half if you can get that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:42]: It's time to take a quick Break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:48]: Thanks so much, Jill. Really excited to be back in the NASPA world, and there is So much going on as we continue to move into 2024. The 2024 Leadership Educators Institute is from December 9th through 11th in Philadelphia. Make sure to save that date because the Leadership Educators Institute or LEI provides a unique Opportunity for all professional levels within our field to engage in critical dialogue to promote positive, sustainable change on their campuses. LEI is a partnership between NASPA, ACPA, College Student Educators International, and the National Clearing House for leadership programs. Go to the NASBA website under events for more information. If you are planning to attend the 2024 national conference in Seattle, Washington from March 9th through 13th. There's a number of things that you need to know. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:42]: Make sure to check your email because you're getting dates sent to you on a regular basis. There are still opportunities to sign up the volunteer at NASPA 2024. So if you're interested in helping to make this year's conference amazing, make sure to sign up today to be able to Find some time to volunteer at as a part of this amazing conference. Volunteering is a fantastic way to support the conference, serve your colleagues, And make this year's event the best it can possibly be. As I said, an email has been sent out with a sign up that you can use to be able to find a time that works best for your schedule, and I encourage you to take advantage of that right away. Recently, Aku Oai, the placement exchange in NASPA released a joint statement with some exciting news about the placement exchange. They've developed a brand new brand identity, a new website, revamped resources, and enhanced Services. If you haven't checked it out yet, I encourage you to check out the newly redesigned website at www Dot the placement exchange, all one word, .org. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:51]: Though TPE is gonna look a little bit different and feel a little bit different, They are elevating their game to be able to do what they can to be able to assist all of us as professionals in our own professional journey. So check out the placement exchange today to find out more about what TPE can offer you in the journey that you're on. I also wanted to let you know about a Free event that is happening called well-being in higher education, raising literacy and advancing the conversation. Join over 20 higher education associations As they come together in dialogue around well-being. Now this buzzword is seemingly everywhere, But what does it really mean? Why does it matter? And how can we each contribute to this critical work? Well-being in higher education, raising literacy, and Dancing the Conversation is a free virtual event taking place February 26th through March 1st. The well-being in higher education event is One of the outcomes of the health and well-being in higher education, a commitment to student success, and will help Put the inter association well-being definition into practice. Registration details and a more detailed schedule of sessions is available on the NASPA website. So go to the NASPA website today to find out more about this amazing free professional development event. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:32:14]: Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So We are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways because The association is as strong as its members. And for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be Getting involved with the knowledge community, giving back within one of the the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, It's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you wanna give back? Each week, we're hoping that We will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will Provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey. I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, To offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents and to all of the members within the association because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:33:34]: Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:39]: Chris, thank you so much for another excellent NASPA world segment. We really appreciate you keeping us stated on what's going on in and around in NASPA. And, Heng, we have reached the part of the show where we do our lightning round, and I have 7 questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready? Hing Potter [00:33:55]: Let's do it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:56]: Alright. Question 1. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music Hing Potter [00:34:03]: to be. Maybe, Get Low by, Lil Jon and the Yingying Twins. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:06]: Number 2. When you were 5 years old, what did you want to be when you grew Hing Potter [00:34:10]: A pilot. An airline pilot, hands down. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:13]: Number 3, who's your most influential professional mentor? Hing Potter [00:34:16]: I would say my housing director From when I was in ResLife as a resident assistant back in Seattle, Luke Botstein from Edmonds College. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:27]: Number 4, your essential student affairs read. Hing Potter [00:34:30]: At the moment, the NASPA conference 2024 website because I'm trying to stay up on today on that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:36]: Number 5, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic. Hing Potter [00:34:39]: I rewatched The West Wing, I think, for the 6th or 7th time, and then I'm also a Trekkie, so I watched Star Trek The Next Generation, then Deep Space Nine, and then Voyager. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:49]: Number 6, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Hing Potter [00:34:53]: Probably a toss-up between the The Daily, I think it is, and then the NPR Politics podcast in the afternoon. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:59]: And finally, number 7, any shout outs you'd like to give personal or professional? Hing Potter [00:35:03]: Definitely wanna give a shout out to my friends on the API KCL looking forward to a 2024 conference experience that's gonna be amazing with you all. And then also specifically to my My awards and recognition co chairs Jerome and Justin. So really appreciate being with you all. And then, of course, Wanna give a shout out lastly to my best and favorite director ever out there in New York City, doctor Danielle Officer at John Jay College. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:33]: Ping, it's been a pleasure to hear about your transition today. If others would like to reach you after the show, how can they grab you? Hing Potter [00:35:39]: Send me a DM or Follow me on Instagram at Hing d Potter or threads. I guess that's the new thing these days. Feel free to follow me on threads. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:48]: Hing, thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Hing Potter [00:35:50]: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me again. Really appreciate it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:56]: This has been an episode of Student Affairs Voices From the Field, a podcast brought to you by NASPA. This show continues to be possible because you choose to listen to us. We are so grateful for your subscriptions and your downloads and your engagement with to the content. If you'd like to reach the show, please email us at sa voices at naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for doctor Jill Elcraton. We always welcome your feedback and your topic and guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show and give us a five a star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps raise the show's to profile within the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by doctor Jill Creighton, that's me, produced and audio engineered by doctor to Chris Lewis. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:36:44]: Special thanks to the University of Michigan Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Join this important conversation among ACPA scholars and leaders, Drs. Leila Moore, Amy Reynolds, and Heidi Levine as they reflect on the roots of the counseling profession in ACPA and the vital role that mental health providers have played in ACPA, student affairs and higher education historically and today. This rich discussion also address the current mental health challenges facing college students today and the important role of student affairs professionals and campuses in addressing these issues.

How can servant leadership revolutionize an organization? How do you serve the needs of healthcare professionals AND patients and their families? How do you reinvent your conferences so they cater to the needs of members, and don't focus on the venue?In this episode of Associations Thrive, host Joanna Pineda interviews Adam Levy, Executive Director of the American Cleft Palate Craniofacial Association (ACPA). Adam discusses:How babies with cleft palate and craniofacial differences (we don't call them birth defects anymore) are born to families all over the world, not just overseas.How Adam feels professionally fulfilled by holding a servant leadership role at ACPA.As ED of ACPA, he wants his team members to be successful; their success is his success!The importance of clarity in the job: Do staff have clarity about their tasks? Is Adam clear about his vision and expectations?How ACPA pivoted to provide patients with learning resources about conditions and treatments.How advocacy has become an integral part of ACPA's activities, advocating for patients and their families, especially when it comes to what insurance companies will cover.How ACPA is retooling their conferences to be less structured around a venue, but optimized for attendee education and connections.References:ACPA WebsiteFind an ACPA Approved Team

Dr. Susan R. Komives is Professor Emerita in the Student Affairs Graduate Program at the U. Maryland where she taught until 2012. She is past president of CAS and ACPA and was Vice President of two institutions.  She is the co-author or co-editor of 16 books, including Exploring Leadership, Leadership for A Better World, Handbook for Student Leadership Development, and How Academic Disciplines Approach Leadership. She and her research teams developed the Multi-institutional Study of Leadership and the Leadership Identity Development grounded theory. She is co-founder of the National Clearinghouse for Leadership Programs and the founding editor of the Wiley New Directions for Student Leadership series. Dr. Julie E. Owen (she/her) is an Associate Professor of Leadership Studies at the School of Integrative Studies, George Mason, where she coordinates the leadership studies major and minor and is affiliate faculty with Women and Gender Studies and the Higher Education Program. Her most recent book is We are the Leaders We've Been Waiting For: Women and Leadership Development in College (Stylus, 2020).. Owen identifies as a white, currently-able, middle-class, cisgender woman working in the academy. She is committed to using her voice to advocate for positive social change leading to more equitable leadership for all and to consider how identities and social power shape practice. She explores the intersections of leadership identity, women's adult development, and the scholarship of liberatory leadership teaching and learning. About The Book"An essential resource for leadership educators and practitioners interested in advancing equity and social justice outcomes in their program delivery."Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBook: A Research Agenda for Leadership Learning and Development Through Higher EducationFilm: Little Richard: I Am EverythingBlog: Queerig LeadershipTV Show: YellowstoneAbout The International Leadership Association (ILA)The ILA was created in 1999 to bring together professionals interested in studying, practicing, and teaching leadership. Plan for ILA's 26th Global Conference in Chicago, IL - November 7-10, 2024.About The Boler College of Business at John Carroll UniversityBoler offers four MBA programs – 1 Year Flexible, Hybrid, Online, and Professional. Each track offers flexible timelines and various class structure options (online, in-person, hybrid, asynchronous). Boler's tech core and international study tour opportunities set these MBA programs apart. Rankings highlighted in the intro are taken from CEO Magazine.About  Scott J. AllenWebsiteWeekly Newsletter: The Leader's EdgeMy Approach to HostingThe views of my guests do not constitute "truth." Nor do they reflect my personal views in some instances. However, they are views to consider, and I hope they help you clarify your perspective. Nothing can replace your reflection, research, and exploration of the topic.

Join these scholars and ACPA leaders, Drs. Z Nicolazzo, Antonio Duran, and Vasti Torres as they discuss ACPA's contributions to research and scholarship. They reflect on what is included with research and scholarship and ACPA's historical, current, and future contributions. They also offer thoughts for those interested in contributing scholarship on why, how, and where to do so. This is part of a 13-episode series for ACPA's 100th Anniversary and a partnership between ACPA and Student Affairs Now.

Episode Description Dr. TJ Stewart talks about his groundbreaking new book, “Sex Work on Campus” – recently recognized as the Association for the Study of Higher Education (ASHE) Outstanding Book of the Year. Drawing on a study involving seven college student sex workers, Dr. Stewart delves into the experiences, motivations, and the impact of social identity on their engagement in college and university contexts.  This previously absent conversation also unveils the complex intersections of education, equity, and justice, providing suggestions of what educators and university leaders can do to better support students engaged in erotic labor. Suggested APA Citation Shea. H (Host). (2024, Jan 3). Sex Work on Campus (No. 185) [Audio podcast episode]. In Student Affairs NOW. https://studentaffairsnow.com/sex-work-on-campus/ Episode Transcript TJ StewartOkay, people are entitled to their perceptions of virtually anything, then the question becomes is, why does your opinion of the thing mean that you get to develop law policy and discourse around it, in the sense that it would then impact that person's or that things in life experience existence. And so what I kept coming back to is this notion that people are uncomfortable, broadly, generally, with sex work, because they think it's unsafe. And there's this prevalent frame that they are selling their body, right, one of the things I push back on in the book is that they don't, you know, sell their body, particularly those that engage in direct forms of sex work or direct services, they sell a service. Heather SheaWelcome to Student Affairs NOW the online learning community for Student Affairs educators. I'm your host, Heather Shea. Today on the podcast. I'm sitting down with an author, scholar, faculty member, and also a colleague and friend from ACPA. Dr. TJ Stewart. We're talking about his new book Sex Work on Campus, which happened to be the Association for the Study of Higher Education outstanding book of the year. I got to hear TJ talk about his book at ASHE last month, and I cannot wait to get into this topic this complex, nuanced and before now, I think absent conversation today on the podcast. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and learning community for 1000s of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We hope you find these conversations make a contribution to the field and are restorative to the profession. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays, and you can find us at studentaffairsnow.com on YouTube or anywhere you listen to podcast. This episode would not be possible without the support of our new sponsor, Routledge, Taylor and Francis publishers happens to be the same publisher of this book. And you can view their complete catalogue of authoritative education titles@www.routledge.com/education As I mentioned, my name is Heather Shea, my pronouns are she and her and I am broadcasting from the ancestral traditional and contemporary lands of the Nish Novick, three fires confederacy of Ojibwe, Odawa and Potawatomi peoples otherwise known as East Lansing, Michigan, home of Michigan State University where I work in our gender equity center. So let's get to the conversation. TJ, thank you so much for being here today. Welcome back to Student Affairs NOW. You were on a previous conversation about labor relations, which I think like dovetail to the today's call. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So you are currently assistant professor of higher ed and Student Affairs at Iowa State University. I, as I as I said, as we were prepping today, I just finished reading your book on my Kindle. I brought it today as a little visual aid downloaded from for free. So thank you to that as well. But I'd love to just begin with a bit of your journey that brought you to your current role, and then how you're entering the conversation today. TJ StewartYeah so thanks so much for that, Heather.

Marco Aurélio Manoel, Presidente da ACPA (Associação Para Controle Populacional de Animais) fala sobre como a ONG abraçou ideia de alunos de Barra do Ribeiro de uma clínica e atendimento gratuito para pets.

In a this week's episode of SA Voices From The Field, guest Omar Mehdi shared his inspiring journey from being a student at the American University of Kuwait (AUK) to returning as the Director of Student Life. Throughout his discussion, he highlighted his experiences of personal and professional growth, the challenges of transitioning from a student to a professional supervisor, and the cultural shifts he faced as an international student in the United States. Navigating Change and Professional Growth Omar Mehdi's story is a testament to the transformative power of embracing change and pursuing new experiences. After completing his Master's in Leadership and Higher Education at the University of San Diego, Omar ventured into the corporate world, gaining valuable real-world experience outside the traditional university setting. His time in the business world provided him with a fresh perspective on decision-making, financial management, and the cultivation of a new professional network. From Player to Supervisor Lessons in Leadership Returning to AUK as the Director of Student Life, Omar Mehdi faced the unique challenge of transitioning from being under the direction of coaches to becoming their supervisor. His experiences of making difficult decisions and managing transitions within the sports program shed light on the complexities of leadership and the importance of personality and character in navigating such transitions successfully.  Reflection and Communication in Student Affairs Throughout his journey, Omar credits his ability to reflect and communicate his feelings to his university program. Initially finding the concept challenging, he came to realize the immense benefit of personal reflection and open communication, particularly when addressing difficult decisions and managing personnel changes. Omar's experience underscores the value of emotional intelligence and self-awareness in the field of student affairs, serving as a guiding light for aspiring professionals. Embracing Diversity as an International Student As an international student in the United States, Omar faced a range of challenges, including culture shock, visa issues, and a steep learning curve. His insights into the significance of listening to and understanding the diverse needs and backgrounds of international students highlight the importance of cultural sensitivity and awareness in creating inclusive and supportive environments within higher education institutions. Impactful Advice for Student Affairs Professionals Omar's journey and reflections offer invaluable advice for those pursuing careers in student affairs. His emphasis on the significance of personal and professional growth, the value of emotional intelligence, and the need to listen to and understand the diverse needs of students resonates deeply with the mission of creating inclusive and supportive campus communities. Inspiring Change and Transformation Omar's story serves as an inspiration for those navigating shifts in their professional paths, urging individuals to embrace change, seek new experiences, and recognize the transformative power of diverse experiences. His impact as the Director of Student Life at AUK reflects a commitment to fostering meaningful student experiences and impacting lives within the academic environment. In conclusion, Omar Mehdi's journey from student to supervisor embodies the spirit of growth, resilience, and the pursuit of meaningful impact within the field of student affairs. His reflections on leadership, personal growth, and embracing diversity serve as a beacon of inspiration for professionals and students alike, underscoring the profound impact of transformative experiences within higher education. This serves as a reminder of the power of personal and professional growth, the importance of cultural sensitivity, and the transformative potential of navigating change with resilience and grace. Omar Mehdi's journey stands as a testament to the possibilities that unfold when one embraces diverse opportunities and the journey of lifelong learning within the vibrant tapestry of student affairs. Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues! TRANSCRIPT Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season nine on transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA. And I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay Voices from the Field, host today on SA Voices, are pleased to bring you back to the Middle East, to the country of Kuwait to meet Omar Mehdi. Omar graduated from the American University of Kuwait with a BBA in Management in 2012 and then an Ma in Leadership in Higher Education from the University of San Diego in 2014. Omar returned to Auk in 2014 as the Sports Coordinator in the Office of Student Life and then in 2016 was promoted to Senior Coordinator for Sports in 2019, became the Assistant Director of the Office of Student Life, and then left the world of Student Affairs in 2020 to return in 2023 as the Director of the Office of Student Life. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:00]: I hope you enjoy getting to know Omar. Omar Mehdi, welcome to the show. Omar Mehdi [00:01:05]: Thank you very much. I'm very happy to be here and very happy to join you, Jill. Thank you for inviting me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:11]: It's a wonderful thing to be able to continue our tradition of having guests from all over the world on SA Voices. And will you let our listeners know where we're speaking from today? Omar Mehdi [00:01:21]: So we are speaking live from Kuwait. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:24]: Excellent. And Omar works with a previous guest, Paula, who was on our International Voices season. Listeners, I'm also going to let you know that I'm a little under the weather as we record today, so my audio quality might just be a little bit different than what you're used to. But please bear with us as we I'm sure the conversation will be just as rich, just with a little bit of a deeper voice today. Omar, we love to start our shows by getting to know our guests, and you have one of the most interesting transitions on our season because you've gone from being a student at your university, american University of Kuwait, all the way through becoming the Director of Student Life. So can you tell us about that journey? Omar Mehdi [00:02:02]: Yes, it is very interesting to be a student in this university and then graduate from it, come back and work here. My path into this world of student affairs came by chance. I didn't expect that I would graduate and work in the field when I was a student at Auk at the American University of Kuwait. One of the admissions counselors who helped me get into Auk recommended working on campus, be a student employee, and she recommended me to the Office of Student Life because I wanted a job and I had time and why not? I started working at Office Student Life back then. And Then back then, the Dean Of Student Affairs, dr. Carol Ross, and The Director Of Student Life, Damien Medina, were I think they just started the nuff program, NASFA, and they recommended it to me. They like, Listen, if you're interested, this is a unique opportunity to be an undergraduate, a student who gets to know more about what we do and why we do it. I was passionate about working in general, and the fact that they gave me an opportunity to work got me into it. Omar Mehdi [00:02:55]: And then I did the nuff program, traveled to Philadelphia back then, where the NASA annual conference was, we did the pre conference with enough group. It was the first time I go to the US. And it was the first time I go to a real conference, not a small conference for undergraduates. It was one which is with professionals and opened up my eyes to realize that the three people that work in the office life at the American University of Kuwait are part of a much bigger group of people that do this. So to see the size, the scale, the number of people that have the same title but work across the US. Canada and more, it was huge for me. I was lucky that the speakers at the Nuff pre conference were outstanding. We had I forget the name of the title of the book, but the strengths, the five strengths. Omar Mehdi [00:03:35]: So that you do this quiz at the end of the book and they give you the five strengths. They brought the speaker. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:40]: It was really cool for Gallup strength. Omar Mehdi [00:03:43]: Yes. And he was really cool, very engaging. So it was a very enriching experience for me. And then after it, I started considering doing a Master's degree in the field in the Division of Student Affairs. I was lucky enough to be admitted and selected for the Student Affairs program at the University of San Diego. So at USD, I did my Master's in Leadership and Higher Education. And the beauty of that program is that you get to have your graduate assistantship with the coursework, too. So again, I was very lucky. Omar Mehdi [00:04:15]: And you'll notice this is like a pattern in my path. I've always been lucky with the people I work with. Assistant director back then, danielle Nelman and the other assistant director, Stephanie, and the Director of the center for Student Success. All of them were excellent mentors. All of them allowed me to be this little kid who comes from Kuwait who just graduated undergrad right to his masters, have very little experience in the real world to learn, make mistakes, grow and develop. The year and a half I spent USD was, I think, pushed me at least five years ahead than I used to think that I would by the time I graduate. And then I came back. Luckily, there was a position available at American University of Kuwait. Omar Mehdi [00:04:55]: So I started as a sports coordinator as a student. I was a student athlete, too, so I was a captain of soccer team. I was in the basketball team. I was in the volleyball team, I was in the table tennis team. So I was very well versed with our program student athlete. But now I came in as a coordinator, I was lucky that the position was available. I started there and then moved into the senior coordinator for sports, then assistant director. I took a sabbatical or a break from student affairs. Omar Mehdi [00:05:17]: I left in 2020, just before COVID to work in a corporate world for three years there, and then came back February 2023. So the beginning of this year back to a UK as the Director of Student Life. And that's how I got here. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:29]: You didn't take the worst three years off of the profession. Omar Mehdi [00:05:32]: Let me tell you again, I was lucky. It was a troubling time for every industry in the world. But to navigate to support students, and how to offer students an experience into a digital one is a very difficult one. And like every country in the world, kuwait was very unsettled at that point, and we didn't know what was happening. We don't know how long this is going to take. When do we go back? So I left just before COVID and came back just after COVID. So when Hybrid was done, online was done, I came back. So I never got to see university through a COVID experience. Omar Mehdi [00:06:02]: I never got to do that, which maybe I'm lucky, but the three years that I was away from the university's industry, I had to also participate or try to offer the company I worked for as much support as I can to the staff and clients that we had. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:17]: What made you want to depart the field during that time? Omar Mehdi [00:06:20]: So I graduated with a bachelor's in Business Management, and the position I moved out of the Auk to go to was one in the business field. It was a great opportunity to test something new, try something different. As you know, as great as it is to work in student affairs and to work in a university, I graduated from Auk. I went for a few years to the States, to two years in the States, came back and worked in Auk. I didn't know anything outside of Auk, which has a lot of advantages in the job because I know it really well. But as a person, as an individual, to grow, you have to kind of leave your comfort zone. You have to leave what you're used to and you have to try something different. I was lucky to in the three years that I was there, I was lucky to learn so much. Omar Mehdi [00:06:58]: And I think I came back as a much stronger candidate for the position than if I was promoted from assistant Director automatically to the director. In the three years I've learned so much about the real world when it comes to working with people that are not just students, they don't have to be here. They can choose to pay somewhere else and go because I work in the gyms industry. So it's a month to month relationship. They can choose next month to leave you. So what you work on, how you develop a relationship with them, is very different to I have a whole semester with you, at least if not four or five, six years. So I came back, as I said, as a much stronger candidate for the position. And I can add so much to what I do through both experiences in student affairs and outside. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:37]: What inspired you to come back into student affairs and specifically back to Auk after having that business experience? Omar Mehdi [00:07:44]: The inspiration always comes back to I love what I do in student affairs and I love the field. And I always thought, listen, I'll change the world one student at a time, just let me graduate from USD and the world will never be the same because I want to change the world. You do mature. You do realize it's not that as easy as it sounds, but there's a very different mindset. And I enjoyed my job outside of Auk. There's a very different hat you wear and a very different mindset that you have when you work in a business and you care about financials, you care about bottom line. And there's a very different mindset to trying to create experiences for students to develop, to grow, and to learn from the worries that you have. The concentration, the focus is very different. Omar Mehdi [00:08:22]: Going back to trying to build programs or trying to build an experience for students to better themselves, to learn to experience new things, is always something that has attracted me. And that's why when I knew the job was available, I automatically applied to it because I knew this is something I'd love to go back to. And to add to that, I've always done it from a sports perspective. I've always done it as a sports coordinator and then a senior sports coordinator, and then to be able to do it at a director level where I can impact or influence policies or programs at more than just sports. So under our department, we have athletics, we have clubs and organizations, code of conduct, student employment, we have a bunch of facilities that we're in charge of, the lounge, courts and so on. And to be able to influence more than just one aspect of student life is something that excites me to come back to. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:09:12]: You said something interesting earlier, which is that you brought back skills that you didn't have before based on the business experience you had. What are some of those skills that you gained while you were out working in corporate world that have really served you well coming into this role as director of Student life? Omar Mehdi [00:09:26]: Absolutely. So many one of the things that comes to mind very quickly is the change in network. So in network and student affairs, most of us do very similar jobs and open up very similar paths for each other because we're in the same industry. However, when you go to a different industry, your network suddenly changes and you network with a lot of different industries. And coming back knowing so many different having new ties and having new networks is something that was very valuable, I think, for me so far. A lot of the students have ideas but don't know where to go and don't know who to talk to. A lot of clubs and organizations want to reach out to organizations in Kuwait where they may be too busy and so on. But knowing individuals in It can open up doors and open up channels for them. Omar Mehdi [00:10:08]: That's one thing for sure. Another thing in the directorship position you have to assume responsibilities. You don't. As a coordinator, when I left Auk, I was the chief operating officer. So as a chief operating officer in a company, your HR manager reports to you, the finance manager reports to you. Understanding how those moving pieces work and the rationale behind them is something I didn't have in the past. So coming back to now as a director, I understand budgeting at a different perspective. I understand hiring at a different perspective. Omar Mehdi [00:10:36]: I understand scale at a different perspective. In the company I used to work in too, we'd organize nationwide events where, for example, there'd be thousands of people that attend our events. Whereas Auk total is 2000 something students. So to understand scalability is something what was new to me. I was used to the same scale. I was used to the exact same scale. As a student here, I graduated, I worked here. USD provided that too. Omar Mehdi [00:10:59]: But coming back here was easy. It wasn't something new to me. So understanding that planning at a different scale is something else and assuming responsibility and making hard decisions during COVID at such an executive position at a company where you have to choose to either let go of people, change contracts and so on, and then to move back to a decision making position where it's not as serious as decisions that we make. I'm never going to choose to close a branch or open up a branch. As a director of student life, I'm never going to choose. And this directly impacts people's livelihood. The decisions that we do here I can take a lot lighter than in the past position that I had, which gave me a lot of perspective too. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:11:35]: You've also come back to an environment where you mentioned this was kind of the main environment that you knew as an adult, right? You were a student there, you grew up in the sports environment there. Talk to us about the transition of going from student at the institution to professional and how your relationships with people at Auk needed to change at that time. Omar Mehdi [00:11:54]: Absolutely. This may sound very interesting to the audience. So when I was a student. I came into Auk in fall 2008 and I graduated spring 2012. In the four years that I was there, the law in Kuwait was that universities had to be segregated gender wise. So I would come to Auk. It is a mixed university with gender segregated classes, naturally, that influenced and changed the dynamics between the genders and between all of campus life. So I leave to the states, I come back, and this law has changed. Omar Mehdi [00:12:23]: And now classes are mixed naturally. This changes the overall atmosphere and the campus culture. So even today, which is a mixed culture, the university experience that the students are having today is very different to the one I was having simply because of that. Naturally, as I age and the gap gets bigger between me and the incoming students and the students on campus. So although they're the similar buildings, the exact same buildings, it's the same culture, sorry, it's the same colors, it's the same some of the same employees, some of the same staff, but the culture has shifted completely when I even speak to students today. The university I went to is a very different university that they went to simply because of the way we were. The life that we lived was a very different one. However, I did come back as a young employee. Omar Mehdi [00:13:05]: I was 24, and some of the students, especially the nontraditional ones, were close to my age, if not older. I did come back and found some of the students who I was friends with who are still students. The nature of the position that I had because I was a sports coordinator, you tend to be the fun guy. You're not like there to discipline, you're not charged for code of conduct. So it was easy to be the young guy on campus because you're the sports guy. So you're friends with all the players, you're friends with all the coaches, you're doing the fun stuff. However, I think one of the first things that I had to do, and I think it made me a better professional today, is right off the bat, I had to discipline athletes. So I do have to stick to a GPA requirement when selecting students. Omar Mehdi [00:13:45]: I do have to enforce these laws. I do have to make sure that their behavior in the team practice and so on is held to a certain standard. Doing it at an age where you're very young to them can cause a lot more conflict and friction, whereas if you're much older, maybe because of simply your age, there can be an assumed authority to your personality that they succumb to. But I think especially that I was balancing doing that meanwhile, while being the supervisor or the person in charge of all the coaches who are all older than and a few of them were my coaches too. And I've had to let go of one of them. Who? Once upon a time, I used to play for them. And now I have to let them go. So those experiences are very, very sticky and uncomfortable. Omar Mehdi [00:14:25]: And forcing myself to go through them and not backing down, I think have made me more confident moving forward. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:14:31]: Let's talk about that transition with that one person specifically, where you're going from being under their direction as a coach to being their leader as a supervisor. How did you navigate the shift in that relationship? Omar Mehdi [00:14:44]: So I had two coaches that I played for and then ended up coming back and becoming their supervisor. In the first year that I was back, I had to let go of one of them. The second year I was back, I had to let go of the second one. I think the first one was, I think, a rough transition. That person didn't take it well, didn't take me offering pointers about how they do their job well, them not taking my feedback seriously, although it sounded serious, although I tried to do it in a serious setting. In the first year I worked at Auk, I'd also dress more professionally just to put that boundary and standard between me and the students and the people that report to me. However, they still never took it that seriously. And when it came to a point in time where we can no longer continue, they never reacted really well. Omar Mehdi [00:15:23]: I also think if I were to do it today, I would have done things a lot differently. I have learned in the past, unfortunately, 20 years of working. But the point I'm trying to make is the second time I was able to do it, the personality of the person that I had to ask to step down from the position was a lot more accepting of their mistakes and faults. I also learned that sometimes, even if because you can be really hard on yourself, on the approach because if it doesn't turn out to be as smooth as you hope for it, you also realize that it's not always only on the setting that you put. The other person plays a role. And the character and the personality that you are dealing with is a variable to the situation. So the second situation went a lot smoother, and that person, although they were let go, they were appreciated by the team, the university, they were given a farewell gift and so on. Whereas the first one, it was more storming out. Omar Mehdi [00:16:09]: Never want to talk to you again. This is ridiculous. I had to play it back. Driving back home and you're in the shower, you think about what they said. You know, these moments in your life where you think about these difficult situations where if you were to go back, you'd say some things differently. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:16:21]: Can you tell us more about what it meant for you to reflect on it and go through your own growth process? Omar Mehdi [00:16:28]: Luckily, because of the program that I was in in the university of San Diego. Reflection was huge. Reflection is huge in the process, and it's very embedded in the coursework that we do, coming from the background and atmosphere I came from in Kuwait. To go to USD and try to reflect on my own life was a very new skill. I have never reflected my life to be especially publicly too, there were situations where you would have to publicly reflect and you have to talk about what your reflections look like because that's how the setting is made in the classroom. And because it was very difficult. And by the time I graduated, I actually was able to do this. Now I'm able to reflect, get in touch with my feelings and vocalize how I feel and communicate what I need, what I'm feeling, what I'm learning was a huge advantage for me in the program. Omar Mehdi [00:17:14]: It's one of the main things I actually walked away with that I still use today. And it's something I practice in my positions that I've had. But in that period of time, it's interesting because at that point in time, you do reflect on how the words that are said or things that are communicated in the meeting may bruise your ego or bruise your authority and you want to defend it. The first reaction you may have is, I want to defend my ego and defend my authority, and I need to put my foot down. And because in that room I am the younger person. I am the person that not too long ago, I used to be your player, I'd had to be a lot more diplomatic and let go of the bruising that was happening to the ego and the position and the authority. So reflecting on maybe I could have been more aggressive. Reflecting on what if I did this, what would have happened? Maybe thinking I should have made it short and sweet. Omar Mehdi [00:18:02]: I shouldn't have maybe gone through an entire meeting with time, unfortunately, I've had several situations where I've had to let go of people. I've been able to maybe see the mistakes that I've done in that meeting and then not repeat them in the future situations, unfortunately, that I've had. But in that period of time where I was going through it, it was difficult because it was a very aggressive meeting. It wasn't a good situation. In the back of your mind, you keep circling back to the because you could have said this and you could have done this. And maybe you think, and this is a person that I don't necessarily have bad feelings towards you. I just don't think you're the right person for this job. But because I was your player, I do have a fond memory of you. Omar Mehdi [00:18:41]: And now that's ruined because now you think I'm a horrible monster who's let you go. But I actually don't have anything against you. I just think we need to try someone else. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:18:49]: Let's go back in time a little bit and talk about your transition to being an international student. You've spent most of your life in Kuwait, if not all of your life in Kuwait. And you're like, let's go to San Diego. It's sunny there. But tell us about that immersion into American culture and your adjustment period into life in USC. Omar Mehdi [00:19:08]: All right, so, as you said, lived my whole life here, born and raised. And sometimes it's like the fish in the water. They don't know they're wet, and you have to leave to know what dry is, because you have to leave the sea to know that what dry looks like. In Kuwait, I knew myself through titles. I am the captain of the football team. That is what I do. I play football. I am the youngest son to my parents. Omar Mehdi [00:19:31]: That is what I do. I am the youngest son to them. I am friends with so and so. That is what do. And because I was in that setting, I never got a chance to actually get to know who I am outside of these roles that you play. The moment I moved to the United States, and the moment you go there, you realize the world's much bigger than the little world you live in. And this can be true to any country, any city you live in. And because the United States is really far in distance and in similarities between the country I live in, everything is new. Omar Mehdi [00:19:54]: I never paid attention to the color of my skin till I went to the United States. I never realized I have a color of my skin till I walked into the US. That I realized I don't look like them. They do look at me and see a difference. My accent, the things I say, what's appropriate to say and what's not appropriate to say. You can say things in Kuwait that can make everybody laugh and make everybody feel comfortable, but you can say in the States, and everybody will think you're horrible and think you're crossing all kinds of red lines. So moving there in the beginning and this is the thing, I had visa issues to get to the States, so I missed the first semester. And then because of my assistantship, that goes with the actual being admitted to the university. Omar Mehdi [00:20:29]: So there was an office who was waiting for me to come that I actually never turned up to for a whole semester because they were waiting on me to get my visa. And by the time I got there, it was literally a few days before spring orientation. We were in charge of spring orientation as an office center for student success. So I literally had to hit the ground running. There was no room for you to train right now. Whatever task I give, you just have to do it. We will get to training you later. We will get to transitioning you later today. Omar Mehdi [00:20:50]: We have to do orientation. And it was the first time they do orientation too, as an office, maybe there was the first time for the center for Student Success to organize orientation, but for me, it was the first time doing everything. The learning curve for them was related to orientation. For me, it was everything. Whether it was orientation, these people, their names, what time does the sun set? Where do I get what this and that? I moved there not having an apartment or a place to stay. I stayed at a motel in the beginning, so I'd finish work and go back to a motel. Classes haven't started yet, so that's a new curve that's coming up. And I think I was lucky to have that. Omar Mehdi [00:21:20]: And I think because I hit the ground running, there wasn't time for me to dwell on the differences, dwell on the culture shock. Because you hit the ground running, you quickly have to adapt. And no time I was able to get myself sorted and move into a place and all that stuff. But the person that went to the United States of America and the person that left the United States of America are two different people. And I'm a much better person because of the experience I had. If I never went to the United States, I think I'd still be the same person I was. And I would say that is a worse off human being. I think as a person, I became much better outside of career wise. Omar Mehdi [00:21:53]: Career wise, I've developed mentally because of the experiences I had, because of the mentors that I had, because of the program that I was in. But genuinely, as a human being, I also improved a lot. I've changed a lot. The reflection process that is embedded into the program has allowed me to change some of the things that I never realized were a part of who I am. And going back to the point I was saying earlier where I knew myself through my roles, going to a country that A doesn't care about, maybe soccer, in the same way Kuwait does, and who I do as a person, and realizing you have a skill nobody cares about, and then nobody knows who you are. You don't know who anybody is, you don't know where things are. And trying to create something in that environment made me a much more confident, much more independent, and much more well rounded. I used to live with my parents. Omar Mehdi [00:22:36]: I still live with my parents because of the culture that we live in. You don't leave your house until you get married. So naturally, food is something I take for granted, laundry is something I take for granted. And this is something every college student feels the first time they go getting to learn how to do their laundry and something new. But it was new to me, and I was doing it as the older dog. I was doing it as. A person who has 21 years old, not 1718. So now I'm a little different, too, in that aspect. Omar Mehdi [00:22:59]: And then you move into the actual coursework and the actual program. And it was very strange to me that people were talking about their feelings in the classroom. It was extremely strange. It was strange to the point of it was off putting. Like, why are you being emotional? I don't want to learn this. I want to learn what says in textbook. I'm still looking at it as a traditional education style. And people were talking, everybody's talking about their feelings. Omar Mehdi [00:23:22]: And I'm sitting there thinking, this is ridiculous. You guys need to take yourself seriously. There's a professor here. And then some of them would be emotional to a point where they would cry. And to me, this is ridiculous. Guys, come on. Get a good grip. And I never understood the value of what they were bringing to the table till, I think, my second semester. Omar Mehdi [00:23:40]: And that's when everything clicked, kind of. I started drinking the Koolaid, tried to understand what it is that we do and why we do it. Understanding that emotion isn't a bad thing, feeling it isn't a bad thing. The knowledge and learning that you get from getting in touch with these emotions and unraveling the onion is something that is valuable. Understanding also that in Kuwait, being a student employee at a university, it's a great experience, but you're not really in charge of a lot of bigger things. And then you move to the States, and now you're a graduate assistantship. So it has a higher responsibility. The volume of work is more responsible, or the kind of work is more responsible. Omar Mehdi [00:24:15]: And then these supervisors aren't. I don't know them. They're new to me. And working to impress them was something very hard for me because I don't know who they are. I don't know what they expect when it comes to the delivery of work or the quality of work that you have to do. I was very impressed by them, and naturally, I wanted to impress them. So that was great, and I learned a lot from being able to work with them. And the best part of my program, what made transitioning to life in the United States and San Diego specifically, is the program was very sensitive to the fact that I am an international student. Omar Mehdi [00:24:46]: They were very careful with my transition in the sense that we had a cohort that would meet every two weeks as a class, and we would talk about our experiences. The people in the cohort were also very friendly to the fact that, hey, Amar is not from here. Like, how's doing? I think they were very welcoming. I was very lucky to have a very welcoming cohort that wanted what's best for me. They would talk to me about my transition and how I'm coping, which some people may not do that. You may not be so lucky to have a cohort that actually cares to check in, to actually care to give. You advice to actually to see how it's like to be the international student and see your input or what you bring to the table, your perspective as valuable. So in a nutshell, it's lucky to have that experience. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:24]: What advice would you give student affairs professionals around the world to support international students coming to their campuses? Omar Mehdi [00:25:30]: I think they should listen. I think that international students is a title you use for non US students. However, we as a group have so many different things. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:40]: Literally the entire world, it's everybody but American. Omar Mehdi [00:25:43]: And we are all very, very different in our backgrounds and so on. However, we do go through similar aspects of US. What makes us international students, the culture shock, the transition, trying to get self sorted and so on. However, listening is very important. The student groups that come to you may have very different needs, may experience things very differently. So maybe a student from a certain country may experience the exact same thing. A different student is from a different country experiencing it very differently. The international office that belonged to the USD at University of San Diego was also very cultured, which, I don't mean this in a bad way, but it isn't the same in the States. Omar Mehdi [00:26:15]: Like in my first week in the US. Someone came to me and said, Where are you from? And I said, Kuwait. And they said, oh, is that inside India? And to me it didn't offend me. I laughed because I was like, oh, Sweden, no, you need to open up a map of the world to me. I laughed. It didn't offend me, but it could offend people. That not knowing the difference between someone who is and it happens in the world because there are a lot of states that are neighboring and have very similar populations but hate each other and don't get along. So mistakening the difference between one and so listening and realizing that students have different needs and number two, being cultured and incoming student. Omar Mehdi [00:26:49]: Especially that as a person who is Muslim, who does believe in Islam, who does practice Islam and lives in a conservative country, when you go to the United States, which is a very liberal country, a lot of things can offend me. And trying to understand if this is something that may be normal to Americans, maybe hard for me to swallow or to cope with, can impact my experience and impact my retention. Reasons to come back is something very important because one of the things that used to happen in the class, especially in student affairs, they'll talk about LGBT concerns. And this is unheard of in where I come unheard of. And to be in a classroom where you're trying to understand their perspective is something that is foreign and alien to me because this is not something that is welcomed nor accommodated in where I come from. So this is one example, but you can have so many, and because again, I come from Kuwait, right? So a lot of people would ask me about Iraq as if I lived there, and then the war in Iraq was still going on, so people would ask me about the war and the troops. And San Diego is a very Marines heavy city, and a lot of our students in USD were there for the GI G Bill or what's it called, and they would come and want to talk to me about Iraq and talk about their experience. But that's not mine. Omar Mehdi [00:27:56]: I know it's close, but it's not mine. And I've never been to Iraq. So it's trying to understand the nuances of where they come from is very important because you're going to welcome them in as a university and you have a responsibility to make them feel comfortable in the same way that you have a responsibility to make res life, to be comfortable for the incoming freshman students and so on. So for me, the International Student Office needs to a listen, and b be more cultured in the nuances of the student groups coming in because they come with very, very different backgrounds. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:22]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:28:28]: Thanks, Jill. So excited to be back in the NASPA world, and as always, there's a ton of things happening in NASPA, and I always love being able to share with you some of the great things that are happening. Another great blog on the NASPA website how community Colleges and University Partnerships improve enrollment and student experiences. This is by Sherry Rowland of Tallahassee Community College. Sherry provides some really great insights into her own experience, but also some practical applications and takeaways that you may be able to consider for implementing at your own campus. If you've never checked out the NASPA blog, you need to go over to the NASPA website, click on the latest, and go down to blog. Or you can just scroll over to the latest and go down to blog and you'll find this article right toward the top of the page. Finally, we are thrilled to announce that ACPA College Student Educators International and NASPA Student Affairs Administrators in Higher Education are once again partnering to devise and update the ACPA NASPA professional competencies for student affairs educators, along with the complementary rubrics with a planned release for the updates in Spring 2025. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:29:50]: There's a large number of individuals from both ACPA and NASPA that are on the Task Force. As the Task Force begins its work, we at NASPA are excited to offer the first of many opportunities for members to provide feedback about your experiences with and use of the professional competencies in your work. This first opportunity will be focused on groups centering on individuals in various positions in January 2024, NASPA will offer additional focus groups based on the ten current professional competency areas. NASPA also will provide an opportunity to offer written feedback via a short survey. Should have received an email just recently where you can sign up for one of the initial focus groups. All you have to do is click on the link in your email to be able to sign up for a session. And Espa does anticipate that these sessions will fill, but there will be additional opportunities that will continue to offer other engagement opportunities for you to provide feedback over the next few months. Every week, we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:30:57]: So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back? Each week. We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in. That knowledge, community. I see myself doing something like that or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:18]: Chris, we always appreciate the time and effort you put into the NASPA World segment and keeping us informed on what's going on in and around NASPA. Omar, we have now reached our lightning round segment, which means I have about 90 seconds for you to answer seven questions. You ready to go? Omar Mehdi [00:32:33]: Let's go. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:34]: All right, question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Omar Mehdi [00:32:39]: Eyes of Tiger. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:40]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up? Omar Mehdi [00:32:44]: Engineer. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:44]: Number three who's your most influential professional mentor? Omar Mehdi [00:32:47]: Fat Wahat. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:48]: Number four. Your essential student affairs. Omar Mehdi [00:32:51]: Read the Chronicle. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:52]: Number five, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic? Omar Mehdi [00:32:56]: The Office. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:56]: Number six. The podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Omar Mehdi [00:33:01]: The rest is football. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:02]: And finally, number seven any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional? Omar Mehdi [00:33:06]: I'd like to give a shout out to the American University of Kuwait with all the employees and faculty that have made me the person I am today, whether as a student or as an employee. I learned from them and learned from them on a daily basis, and I'm very grateful for everyone who has been a part of it. Last but definitely least, I'd like to give a shout out to my family who make me who I am and have to tolerate who I am too. So shout out goes to them. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:29]: Thank you so much for sharing your perspective from Kuwait. I think it's always amazing to have more international voices on the show. The vast majority of our listenership comes from the US. But we're getting quite a bump coming in from Qatar lately. A few downloads here and there from many, many other countries too, but just really appreciative of you coming in and sharing your perspective on all of the transitions you've had over the years. Omar, if folks would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you? Omar Mehdi [00:33:56]: They can find me on Instagram as Ometti number one and number 414, so Ometi 14 and email. I'm sure you can share that in the announcement. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:06]: All right, Omar, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us today. Omar Mehdi [00:34:10]: Thank you, Jill. I really appreciate it and enjoyed the conversation. Hopefully I get to meet you one day in one of the conferences. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:18]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn. By searching for Dr. Jill L. Craighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:43]: We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. And please, like, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton SAP Mi. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:35:05]: Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Welcome back to another exciting episode of SA Voices From the Field! In today's episode, we have the pleasure of hosting Dr. Chicora Martin, the board chair of NASPA, the leading association for student affairs professionals. Dr. Martin shares their incredible journey in leadership, from initially doubting their own nomination to now serving as the board chair. We dive into their experience at NASPA, the importance of color and texture in leadership, and the outstanding work of the NASPA staff in keeping the organization running smoothly. Dr. Martin also walks us through NASPA's thoughtful process of selecting the board chair, emphasizing the importance of representation and engagement within the association. We'll also touch on Dr. Martin's involvement in the LGBTQ+ knowledge community and their commitment to addressing gender issues within the profession. So tune in and join us as we explore the dynamic world of leadership and higher education with Dr. Chicora Martin in this episode of SA Voices From the Field! Dr. Chicora Martin serves as the Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students for Agnes Scott College in Decatur, GA.  Chicora provides leadership in the areas of student development, wellness, sense of belonging, social justice, and transformational learning experiences for Agnes Scott College students.  Before coming to Agnes Scott, Chicora was Mills College in Oakland, CA as the Vice President for Student Life and Dean of Students for seven years and at the University of Oregon for fourteen years serving as the Assistant Dean of Students, Director of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Education and Support Services, Area Director for the Center for Multicultural Academic Excellence, and coordinator of the Bias Response Team. Chicora various leadership positions include Region V Knowledge Community Chair for LGBT Issues as well as the 2018 faculty and 2020 Faculty Director for the Manicur Institute for NASPA, co-chair for the National Consortium of LGBT Resource Professionals from 2003-2005, member of the American College Personnel Association's Standing Committee for LGBT Concerns and ACPA Senior Student Affairs Officer Advisory board.  Chicora was honored as the 2015 ACPA Voice of Inclusion Medallion recipient and by the Consortium of LGBT Resource Professionals as the 2014 Contribution to the Profession award. Chicora received a doctorate from Colorado State University in Educational Leadership and Human Resource Studies, a Master's degree in College Student Personnel with a concentration in LGBTQ services from the Florida State University, and a Bachelor's of Science from East Carolina University.  Chicora's research and teaching interests include the intersections of higher education policy, gender identity, as well as marine conservation and emergency management/crisis response.  Past presentations have focused on gender identity, Title IX and policy development, multiethnic/queer identity, access and equity, bystander engagement, and crisis and emergency preparedness.  Chicora enjoys travel and adventures of all kinds including experiences to Everest Basecamp, rafting the Grand Canyon and scuba diving the world, as well as triathlons and serving as Red Cross Disaster Volunteer. Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues! Transcript Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]: Welcome to Student Affairs Voices from the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season nine on transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA. And I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your SA SA Voices from the Field. Host. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:00:23]: Shakura. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:24]: Welcome to SA. Voices thank you so much. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:00:27]: I'm excited to be here with you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:28]: We're so glad you agreed to be our season premiere of season nine, transitions in Higher Education. Think you're the perfect person to kick off our season because of your professional transitions, your institutional type transitions, and also your leadership transitions within NASPA. But as our season premiere person, that also means that we get to explore the direction of where we're going to go. And one of the things we will always keep consistent though, is we like to start our episodes with your come up. So how did you get to your current seat both at your institution and in NASPA? Dr. Chicora Martin [00:00:59]: Well, first of all, let me congratulate you on nine seasons of bringing forward our profession in a way that's really accessible to folks and interesting and lets us tell a little bit deeper story about what we're doing. So that's an amazing opportunity for you, for NASPA, and for Student affairs. So super excited to be a part of it. How I got here, I was just actually meeting with a grad student. So I have a general policy that if a grad student reaches out and wants to connect, I try to make that happen because I feel like that's an important part of the profession. So I actually had lunch with a graduate student last weekend who happens to be in the Atlanta area doing some work this year. And that was one of their questions, like, what was your student affairs journey? And I said, first, I said, I think I'm still on it. I'm not quite sure. Trying to figure out what I'm trying to do. But I went to college and really was as a first gen student, really with very little college knowledge. Got to my undergraduate because my mom's best friend's husband coached football there. That was part of my decision making factor in Student Affairs for thinking about the work we do around recruitment and trying to get students to come to our college. I'm sure all of the admissions professionals out there who hear this are going to cringe that. That was part of my college decision making journey. But alas, I got there and I was on a career trajectory to be into law and be a judge. That's what I wanted to do. That was my original career aspiration. So I got involved with the honor know, that seemed like a good extracurricular fit with being a judge. Right? And summer of my sophomore year, this person calls me in July. In the summer I'm working. They're like, hi, I'm your new dean of students at ECU. East Carolina is where I went my undergrad, and I'm going to be working with you next year. Really excited. I'm like, who calls you in the middle of the summer? I'm like, not even in the college frame, but alas. So that person was Dr. Karen Boyd, and she ended up being my dean for several years. Is actually a great friend of mine. At my wedding, we vacationed together even 30 years later almost. So it was because of her making me realize the opportunities available to me. I did want to go home for the summers back to my house in Virginia Beach, so I got connected with orientation so I could work. No real intention of it being a career. Hey, it was a job and a place to live and three meals. And I met the wonderful orientation director at Carolina, Beth Am. Pretty. And it really just went off from there, I think. I got a job in student affairs and got into law school the same week right when I was getting ready to graduate. My mom was a little surprised. You're going to do what? You're not going to go to law school? You're going to do this thing. I don't understand. But I did. I thought it was the right thing for me. I said then that I can always go back to law school. So yeah, so that's how I got into student affairs. It was sort of a circuitous serendipitous, I guess, is the better word for it, route. And I just kept taking advantage of opportunities and decided I wanted to go to grad school. So I had to wait a year, took as many advantages as I could where I was at ECU to do different jobs. I worked in admissions, I worked in the student union. Really cool opportunities. And I went to grad school so I could do this as a job. And my family, many of which have still not gone to college, are always like, how is school? School's still good? As if I'm still enrolled. I don't know. I don't know what they think I do, but it's really cute because they're always like student of life. Student. Exactly. I'm like school's still great. I think they think either just always in school or maybe I'm the principal, I don't know. But yeah, so that's why I got here. And I've just continued to have really great opportunities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:20]: The reason you heard me go, oh, wow, is I know Karen as well. Clearly not as well as you do, but I grew up in the conduct world, so Karen has been quite a presence stalwart in the conduct world for so many years. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:04:30]: It's true. I say she's always been really committed to this work and is a great connector, so it doesn't surprise me. Right. She's a great connector. She's always introducing people to each other. And I think I also, thankfully have learned that a little bit from her. So I try to do the same thing with people that I work with or mentor, just connecting them to the great people in our profession, for our. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:04:48]: Listeners, Shakur and I on each other's journey. We met actually at the University of Oregon in 2000. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:04:55]: A long time. Sometime between somewhere. Yeah. Mid 2000, I think. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:05:02]: Student affairs always comes around on itself, and I think it's a really great example of how small the profession can be, good, bad or ugly. But Shakura actually interviewed me for a job at one point when I was a much younger professional. So we all stay connected regardless of how those things turn out. I didn't end up working with Shakura on a full time basis, but we're still definitely in the Nasca space. You know, like, we're all those of us who've been around the block a few times, the six degrees of separation gets tinier and tinier. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:05:29]: It's true. I tell that to new professionals all the time in our field, is we have really tons and tons of amazing opportunities, and it's still a really small profession. And to your point, that can be good and challenging, I think good, because sometimes that sense of connectedness also is how we take care of each other. We look out. But I also know if you're coming from the outside and or you have identities that are not historically represented in our work, it can feel like you can't get in. Like, it's sort of an inside outside club. So I think we nurture that, but we also recognize it can feel a little clubbish, and we have to work on making sure everyone feels like they'd be a part of that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:04]: Absolutely. And on our theme of transitions, you have now transitioned into the Nasca board chair role. You're in there a couple of months now, so I'm hoping you can talk to us a little bit about your come up in NASPA specifically and then also what that transition has been like from being, like, a general leader or a volunteer to suddenly sitting as the leader of the board. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:06:25]: Now, I appreciate that it's accidental leadership. If you heard, I giggle because when I remember talking to my partner when I was first approached about this opportunity and I said, it's a great thing. I mean, I won't get elected or anything. They probably won't even put me up. But it's a cool thing to be nominated or recognized, just to be to someone to reach out and say, hey, you're doing great things. We see you. So she laughs at me still that's, you know, you say that, and here you are doing you know, my role of work at NASA actually kind of parallels my work in student affairs in that I got my job. At the University of Oregon, and I was there in August, and Laura Blake Jones, who was the Dean of Students there at the time, said, hey, by the way, a bunch of us are on the Portland. It was a regional conference planning committee, and now you are yay. So welcome. I love being volatile. It was amazing. It was a very important job. I was in charge of parking. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:07:22]: Oh, that was on a college campus. Do not underestimate the importance of parking. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:07:26]: I know it's true. I joke about it, and people are like, well, but if they can't park, no one can come. I was like, It's true. And parking in downtown Portland is not like most major cities. It's really challenging. But it's interesting though. I decided, like, okay, one thing, I was going to take that beyond and sort of my personality too. I was like, oh, what else can I do? So I had like, bus routes, and I got some free bus passes as giveaways. I just went and did all kinds of transportation things. So parking and transportation is important and fun, and I made the best of it. But I also said, hey, I know there's an LGBT knowledge community. I'm connected at that time. I was just I call it like a listserve member at the time, right? I got the emails and I said, I'd like to also provide some resources around LGBT things to do at the conference. And folks were really excited. So I took on that piece as well and just kind of ran with it. And it was a great opportunity. I met wonderful people in NASPA. It was really my first big involvement. And I think for the early part of my career, I was involved in both NASPA and ACPA fairly equally. ACPA was much bigger at my graduate institution, and I stayed connected to both. I think each organization has really valuable pieces for professionals and having each organization and lots of other ones, and I'll talk a little bit about that later, but that really benefit your professional development. So it's cool. Got connected to cool people and just stayed involved. Really got involved in the LGBT knowledge community. And that's what it was called at the time, right? And worked with that group and some wonderful leaders around some of the cool changes that we were working on as far as the organization being more inclusive, being more welcoming, and stayed connected there as well as the standing committee for ACPA. So it was really cool in working, and then as many of us sometimes do, I kept volunteering with NASPA, reviewing programs. That was one of the things I've constantly done. People are like, how do I get involved with something right away? I'm like, offer to review program proposals. It's one of the easiest ways, but really meaningful ways. You really help sculpt the professional development curriculum of our organization. So I've done that for years and generally was just open, especially when NASPA was close to us. So if it was close to me in an area as a relatively I'm not going to use the word poor that I don't think that's appropriate. As a relatively lower income employee at the time, I really couldn't travel nationally, so it was really taking advantage of whenever NASPA came by. The Bay Area first story. Get another bay in heights. So I was really excited in looking at my trajectory as a mid level professional and how you get to become into sort of a vice presidency. It's not a very clear process. It's somewhat opaque sometimes. How do you get the skills and experience? So I think my first really big opportunity to engage was when the faculty director of Manicure, which is a wonderful institute to help support women to get into VP positions, I would say argue sometimes to decide they don't want to be a vice president, which is a completely appropriate reason to also do it. Mamta Akapati reached out to me, and Mamta and I have known each other for a long time, more from afar. She's an amazing leader, really, I think sets a lot of opportunity in our community to talk about inclusive leadership in a particular way. And I've always really appreciated her work in that area and said, hey, you want to get involved with this thing, Manicure? I had never been, and not because I didn't think it was important, but because of my gender identity. I wasn't exactly sure if it was that space for me. I want to honor and respect spaces that are set for people who particularly have marginalized identities to sort of honor that. I think it's important. I think we can have lots of inclusive spaces, but I think those are vital too. And she moms and I said, let's talk. So we talked, and she really shared with me that this was about folks who are marginalized because of their gender, having a path to a VP position. And that really speaks to me because I would say that one of the reasons that I'm at a historically women's college is because we talk about gender all the time. All the time. You have to. It's what you do. So being able to really do that in a way through the NASPA leadership opportunities was exciting, and I think we had an amazing faculty. It was a really profound experience for me as a faculty member, and I had the honor. So it's every two years, the next two years, usually a faculty member is asked to be the faculty director. And so in 2020, I was able to be the faculty director. And again, just those leaders that I'm connected to the faculty, I have a text chat with all of them. To this day that we chat with each other, and some of the participants I'm still connected to reach out, and we have conversations about their careers, what they're doing, how things are going. It's really exciting. And so that was really my first national opportunity. Besides always being involved with the national conferences volunteering and doing all the things I could. I even remember volunteering at TPE for those of us who were older and remember volunteering at TPE. And mine was the mailboxes. So people asked me of one of my most memorable NASPA experiences is working at the mailboxes, at the placement exchange with folks, applying for jobs and trying to be really so my journey with NASPA was just about saying people, you know, opportunities with different groups and just saying, yeah, I'll try that, I'll help out. I will do whatever that thing is. And when I was approached to be the board chair, I really said, if the NASPA membership feels I can be of service, then I'm there. If they feel my leadership, what I bring, how I approach the work and our profession, then I would be honored to serve in that way. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:12:46]: So let's talk about that process a little bit, because I think that too can be a bit opaque. How does one be considered to become the NASPA board chair, and what does that feel like as the person who just went through it and the transition from prospective candidate to candidate to sure. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:13:01]: There'S actually it's a pretty thoughtful process. It kind of goes back to what I said earlier about ensuring that we have a process that's clear to our membership, but it feels like there's an opportunity to engage with it at a variety of levels. So NASPA will reach out to folks around being the board chair. You can throw your own name out there and say, hey, I'm interested. They also solicit from NASPA leaders, ideas, folks who might be really interested. And the first part of that conversation is looking at, do we have a good slate of folks to talk with? Right? Are we representing different groups, different regions? That's a huge part, right? We represent a very diverse constituency, have our regions. Of course, I throw that all in the loop as I move across country. But we'll talk about our regions represented, different backgrounds, different functional areas. And then the past chair part of their responsibility is actually to run this process. So you serve three years, incoming chair, current chair, and past chair. So the past chair then reaches out to folks and has a conversation. I remember my conversation with Angela Batista, and it was really, really important because Angela named what would be expected. And I think that's important to really have a thoughtful conversation with yourself, to the demands of them, to have a conversation with your family, your boss, the people who work with you. Because I would say specifically the board chair year, you're going to ask those folks in your sphere of the world to sort of take on more and to support you. So I think in that process, then folks really name, okay, yeah, I'm interested, or it's not my time. And I would say a lot of folks will say that I am very interested, but it's not my time to do that. And I think that allows us to recognize that this is a volunteer position, that all of us have other jobs. You're required to be in a student affairs role while you're in the board chair position. So it is really on top of everything else. And from that, the slate of candidates, those two candidates that rise to the top through this committee selection process, through the interviews, go to the membership, and the members get to vote between those two folks. We do a great sort of webinar kind of conversation. We have to do a video. That two minute video. I feel like it took me 20 hours to make. It is so hard to get everything you want to say in two minutes. That was, I think, the hardest part of it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:09]: And in one take. That is rough. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:15:11]: I know. It was so arduous. My staff will tell you here, I hate doing videos, especially when they're scripted. I don't like conversational. I love having a conversation. But those sort of scripted are when you really and you have to in two minutes, you have to write everything down, because if you don't, at least I I will name for myself. I'll wander off talking about whatever you want to talk about, but that was the hardest part. And then it goes out to the members, and they vote and make a decision about who can lead. And I would know. I ran against Eddie Martinez. He is an amazing human, and frankly, the NASPA would have been in a great hands no matter who they elected. So, thankfully, Eddie is now on the foundation board. I'm glad we've kept him close. He's a wonderful person, and I know he'll really serve that foundation board well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:15:56]: And it's such a delightful thing to think about. Your colleagues nominating you for this leadership role, but also really important to know that there's an interview process that you have to really think about why you want to be in this position and what does it mean to you. And the interesting thing about association leadership, which is much different than campus based leadership, is that you are actually more of a steward of the association for the period of time you're in the seat, rather than kind of operationally leading like you would in a division of student affairs. So let's talk a little bit about the transition of hat that you have to wear between your day job and your board chair job. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:16:29]: Yeah, that's a great analogy. That stewardship I describe it as I'm a threat. And one end of my thread is connected to Danita, right. She's already gone through and served our organization and still does this past year. And the other end of my thread is connected to Anna Gonzalez, who will come in next year. And I sort of hold this for a year, but I need to figure out how do I add texture and color to that. That's unique to me and my leadership that really helps serve the organization overall, because that's the most important thing. And I think my leadership style and what I bring to that. But you're right, there's a whole I use the word gaggle, very fondly gaggle of amazing staff at NASPA who do exceptional work to make this manageable for someone like me. I mean, quite frankly, if it wasn't for them, this would not be possible. They are leaders in higher education. Almost all of them have worked in higher education or in something really closely related. Many have. So they understand the flow. And I always joke we have a pretty routine bruton and I schedule throughout the year, but we don't meet in August in the same way. And people are like, oh, we're not meeting in August. I'm like because it's August. And Beth understands what August looks like for most of us. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:35]: Unless you're on quarters. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:17:36]: I know. I bet our term schools are like, in September. I know, but we do try. I think it's important. So the NASPA staff are great, and they're know I think every board chair comes in with a sort of a vision of how do I support the organization? And a big part of mine is sort of being with folks in community. So I've made it a real effort throughout the past summer to be able to go to as many regional conferences, specialties conferences, like our Student Success Conference. I'm looking forward to our Strategies conference in January, our racial equity conference in December. So being there and having conversations, I had wonderful visits with region Two and Three at their regional conferences in June. So I think that's an important part of what I think I'm bringing to that sort of stewardship of the board chair is helping our membership understand that, yes, there's this amazing group of staff, but the responsibility and opportunity of NASPA is with us. It is our organization. And you have a board of volunteers who represent all of the regions, all of the divisions, all the wonderful areas that are so important to us. And they are working really hard to make sure NASPA is your organization. And we want you to engage and participate by being in volunteer roles, reading whatever way you can participate. So that really, I think, is my sort of opportunity to steward the relationship our membership has with not. I would say in some ways, it's not unlike being a vice president in that I spend a lot of time ensuring that everyone understands what the Division of Student Affairs does, the important work and contributions we make to the learning and education for students. But thankfully, in my day job, I do a lot of problem solving. And I would say that generally, the Nasca staff ends up being a great know. Kevin and I meet monthly to do that, and by the time we hear about. They have like six solutions. They're like, here are the six solutions the board can choose. Pick one. So I wish I had that group of people all the time. Although I would say, here my current role. My staff also do a pretty good job of that. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:19:37]: So when you think about the transitions of institution types, you've also spent time at large publics. You're now at a small private. You changed and transitioned between the east and the West Coast, or really the West Coast to the south. Tell us about those transitions and what you've learned and what made them successful, or I guess also what made them really scary. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:19:55]: Does that make me like a sort of student affairs unicorn? When I was talking to someone, they were like, you went from a big public to a small private, from the West Coast to the East Coast. Right. I think it just shows you what we talked about earlier, that our profession, while large, is also small in some ways. There's some consistent things that we think also. For me, transitions are about remaining really open to bringing your experience, but recognizing every position you come into as an opportunity to learn, as opposed to assuming you know all the answers. So I think that's always been a very successful sort of transitions approach for me. I went from a school of 25,000 to a school with less than 2500 and being able open to say, yeah, I've got some great ideas, but I need to also see how I could apply them here. I'll use a funny example. So when I went from Oregon to Mills College, when I got there, they had all these posters and flyers everywhere, and they were all like handwritten and were and I said, well, why don't we create a way so they can create more digital posters or we can get a tool people can use. And I'm thinking this in my head because my policy is when I come to a new position, I'm just sort of soaking it in. And then it only took me about a month to realize that was just an important part of that way that campus communicated that sort of homemade and or high touch approach. It wasn't just that they put these banners up, but the fact that the organization who did them all got together and made them together and then put them up, that was part of the culture of gathering for them sense of belonging. And had I just come in and said, oh, we have these great tools at this big school and we're going to do this thing, I wouldn't have seen or felt that. So instead, I bought them a stencil machine. So little cutout stencils for those of you who have those on your campus, you know, little machine, you hope nobody takes their finger off it. Makes me a little nervous. But alas, then we had little classes. You had to do a little class before you could use the stencil machine. And then I bought, like, every color butcher paper on that cool wheelie thing known to student affairs so that students could just make better posters. They could be clear, you could read them better, they could do them more quickly. They had the right supplies, and we had a little big table in a space where they could do it. So I think that's an example of sort of recognizing that in transitions, we bring a lot of knowledge and experience, but to do it well, we have to be able to adapt it to the community we're a part of. We have to just recognize. And I think this is also one of the things I take away from traveling abroad a lot. You and I have talked about this. We both have this love of travel, and I traveled very young. My father imported spices for a living. That was his job. And so I had the opportunity to be in countries in the Middle East and in Europe pretty young. And I took from that also, like, oh, my way of doing things is just a way of doing things. It is not the way of doing things. And I think that has helped me in every transition to recognize I have great experience, but I need to figure out how to apply that to the benefit of that campus or that volunteer role to make it better and to kind of contain be nimble and also learn stuff. I mean, that's the coolest part. I'm always learning things from those around me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:22:56]: Is there a time that you made a mistake in a transition that you've learned from and applied towards future transition. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:23:02]: Mistake, opportunity for learning? Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:04]: I don't know. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:23:05]: I'm kind of an optimist. No, I would describe as mistakes. You do things in a silo that you are unwilling to own. Like, that's sort of a mistake. For me, everything else is an area where you did probably the best with the knowledge you had, but you have to own when it's just it's not the right thing or it didn't work or you weren't as inclusive. And sure, certainly I think sometimes I get ahead of myself. I'm about recognizing that not everybody has a different tolerance for change and a good leader number one job is to recognize that actually not just to do the change, but to actually recognize folks tolerance for change. I was at Mills College when Mills College merged with Northeastern. Talk about learning. I never thought I would do that in my higher education experience. And I think there were certainly times where it was challenging. Right. It's challenging for an organization to change that significantly. And I learned a lot from trying to apply kind of traditional roles of sort of change management in a way that we've never done before. Right. But it's also having some grace with myself and with others. Around me. So I'd say that's a takeaway. Even when I mess up, which I think the first thing is just I actually not that long ago said to Sioux staff who brought forward, hey, we don't like the way this was going. This is how it's impacting us. First thing is I said thank you for trusting me to bring this to me. That can be scary. I'm your boss. Second, I'm sorry, I hear what you're saying. I wasn't coming from that perspective, we need to do some things, but I see how doing it that way is problematic. So let's get together in the end. I should have gotten together first, but sometimes we get moving so quickly that we don't recognize everyone who needs to be there. And that that change is really important. And as I said to my folks that work with me, hopefully we can build a layer of trust that if I do have to do that, you can trust me enough to know that it's not the typical way I want to make change, but the situation required it. So doing that, naming that, and then what I think that big opportunity always takes is that change is never easy. It sometimes feels a little easy when you're in positions of power and positions of decision making. And information really is just about everything. How we control information, how decisions are made, who gets to make decisions. I think that's the key to not making mistakes and to just learning from those opportunities. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:25:25]: It's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world. Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:31]: Welcome back to the NASPA World. Really excited to be able to talk to you again today in a brand new season. And there is a lot going on in NASPA. Coming up in only a few days on September 20 at 02:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, is a webinar that is available for members and nonmembers alike called Career Readiness. A shared responsibility between student affairs and academic affairs. At research focused institutions, career outcomes have focused on the first destination, corporate hiring and graduate school enrollment. Today, the measures of student success are more broad than a first destination. Career readiness is now an accepted student success outcome. How do research intensive institutions frame this? Explicitly as tied to institutional learning objectives and a shared responsibility of academic and student affairs? In this webinar, three institutions Stony Brook University, SUNY, the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Minnesota, and the University of Texas at Austin will share their models and approaches. You can still register, so go to the NASPA website to find out more. There's another new volume of the Journal of College and Character that is currently out. All NASPA members do have access to this journal. Among all of the other journals of the association in this issue, there are a number of great articles, peer reviewed articles, as well as opinions and perspectives that range from topics involving career development to university chaplaincy to even considering antihazing messaging. It's a powerful journal that I highly encourage you to check out. It is a part of your membership, and you can take advantage of reading through the different articles from many different authors and practitioners here in the field. Know you get a lot of emails from knowledge communities and other aspects of NASPA, but it's important for you to check those emails, read through them, because there are specific dates and deadlines and things that you need to keep in mind in regard to your membership, in regard to how you can recognize people on your own campus or programs on your own campus. And I don't want you to miss out on these opportunities. One such opportunity is the annual awards process that happens every fall, and the deadline for submitting programs and people for different awards that are hosted by knowledge communities within NASPA or NASPA in general, typically have a deadline of Friday, October 6, 2023. So I want to encourage you to go to the NASPA Awards portal on the NASPA website, and you can go into the NASPA website, go to awards, and find out more. But in there, you can go in, you can look at Knowledge Community Awards, division Awards, dissertation of the Year Awards. There's lots of different awards that are out there and different deadlines, and all the deadlines that are out there as well. Most are October 6. But the Dissertation of the Year award is Saturday, September 30. So I don't want you to miss out on taking advantage of submitting for these awards, submitting others for these awards, because it is a great opportunity to be able to recognize the work that is being done, the people, the programs at your own institutions, and being able to have them potentially get recognized at the national Conference. So, again, the deadline is October 6. I really highly encourage you to at least go check out the portal itself. To make it simple, I know I said you could go to the NASPA website to access this, and you can, but I'm going to make it even simpler. I created a short link for you to follow to be able to check out all the awards, and it's just bitbit lynaspa, 20 fourawards, all one word. So again, bit Lee NASPA 20 fourawards. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association. And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself. Where do you fit? Where do you want to give back? Each week, we're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas that will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that. Or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:21]: Chris, thanks so much for kicking us off with season nine's very first NASPA World segment. As always, we are so grateful for you putting together this list. And if you're new to the show, we want to remind you that our mission here is to provide free and accessible professional development for you, our student affairs professionals, especially as we know, as our travel budgets are seemingly restricted more and more every year. So we thank you for joining us and we're glad that you're here. And Shakura, we have reached our lightning round time. I've got seven questions for you in about 90 seconds. You ready? Dr. Chicora Martin [00:31:51]: Okay, I'm ready. Let's do it. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:53]: All right, question number one if you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be? Dr. Chicora Martin [00:31:58]: Oh, I have two choices if it's a chill conference. The rainbow connection by Kermit the Frog. If we're going a little more fly it's. I was here by Beyonce. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:06]: Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:32:09]: When you grew think? I'm not sure I wanted to be a judge quite yet. I definitely want to be underwater, so I would say maybe I want to live underwater or be a marine biologist. One of the two. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:19]: Number three, who's your most influential professional mentor? Dr. Chicora Martin [00:32:22]: Oh, Dr. Karen Boyd. I think, like I said, is the reason I got here. And I would say just about every person I've worked for and with is a mentor to me. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:31]: Number four, your essential student affairs read. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:32:34]: Reading the books that we learn from every one of them has a student affairs message. My current one is Braiding Sweetgrass, which is a great context on science and indigenous folks. So that's the one that's going to inform me today. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:45]: Number five, the best TV show you binged during the Pandemic. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:32:48]: All right. The mass singer. That was it. I wouldn't say it's the best, but it certainly helped me get through the pandemic. And the other one was Bridgerton, so we could talk about that. That was a great piece. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:32:58]: Number six, the podcast you've spent the most hours listening to in the last year. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:33:02]: This is amazing. I don't listen to a ton of podcasts, but my wife does and she tells me all about them. So The Hidden Brain has been a really recent one that she's been listening. I've been listening through her. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:12]: And finally, number seven. Any shout outs you'd like to give? Personal or professional? Dr. Chicora Martin [00:33:16]: Thank you for that. I have one for you for taking the time to do this to my great wife and all of our kids who are attached to us. We have about seven and some grandkids for putting up with us and to all the student affairs professionals who are new to the field and finding your path and journey. There's a place here for you and we're excited to have you with us. And for the folks who've been here a while, leading is challenging, so we're here to support you as well. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:33:35]: You made it, yay. Really appreciate you taking time out of your very busy schedule and balancing the time zones that we're currently in. Currently, Shakur and I are recording 12 hours opposite, so very early in the morning for them and very late at night for me. So we're making it work and then we're going to do this for the rest of the season. But this is part of my joy as a student affairs professional, getting to have depth of story with the amazing humans who make NASPA happen and who make our profession work and who are committed to positive change in our profession. So I'm grateful for you and your leadership and looking forward to seeing what the next semester and a half bring in your stewardship of the organization. I think it'll be over before you blink. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:34:14]: Oh, it will. Thank you for hosting this and for the opportunity for the world to be able to have, like you said, accessible professional development at their fingertips. One of the most important things we do. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:24]: And finally, Shakura, if anyone would like to connect with you after the show airs, how can they find you? Dr. Chicora Martin [00:34:28]: Sure easiest is LinkedIn. And then if you Google Shakura Martin, you will see my position and the NASPA website. So check those out and then message me on LinkedIn if you have questions. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:37]: Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us. Dr. Chicora Martin [00:34:39]: Thank you. Dr. Jill Creighton [00:34:41]: This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field, brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at savoices@naspa.org or find me on LinkedIn by searching for Dr. Jill L. Craighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions. We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. And please like, rate and review us on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton. Produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by Lu Yongru. Special thanks to Duke Kunshan University and the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.

Episode 146: RA vs OA    Future Dr. Magurany explains how to differentiate rheumatoid arthritis from osteoarthritis.  Written by Thomas Magurany, MSIV, Ross University School of Medicine. Comments by Hector Arreaza, MD. You are listening to Rio Bravo qWeek Podcast, your weekly dose of knowledge brought to you by the Rio Bravo Family Medicine Residency Program from Bakersfield, California, a UCLA-affiliated program sponsored by Clinica Sierra Vista, Let Us Be Your Healthcare Home. This podcast was created for educational purposes only. Visit your primary care provider for additional medical advice.1. Etiology: Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA): RA is an autoimmune disease wherein the immune system mistakenly attacks healthy tissues, particularly the synovial joints, usually between the ages of 30-50. Genetic predisposition, environmental factors such as smoking or infections, hormonal imbalances, and lower socioeconomic status have been associated with an increased risk of developing RA(1).Osteoarthritis (OA): OA primarily arises due to mechanical stress on the joints over time. Factors contributing to OA include age, obesity, joint injury or trauma, repetitive joint use or overuse, genetic abnormalities in collagen structure, and metabolic disorders affecting cartilage metabolism (2).The greatest risk factor for the development of OA is age with most patients presenting after 45 years of age. The greatest modifiable risk factor for OA is weight. People with a BMI >30 were found to have a 6.8 times greater risk of developing OA. (3) Primary OA is the most common and is diagnosed in the presence of associated risk factors such as: older age, female gender, obesity, anatomical factors, muscle weakness, and joint injury (occupation/sports activities) in the absence of trauma or disease. Secondary OA occurs alongside a pre-existing joint deformity including trauma or injury, congenital joint disorders, inflammatory arthritis, avascular necrosis, infectious arthritis, Paget disease, osteopetrosis, osteochondritis dissecans, metabolic disorders (hemochromatosis, Wilson's disease), Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, or Marfan syndrome.2. Pathogenesis:Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA):In some patients, RA is triggered by some sort of environmental factor in a genetically predisposed person. The best example is tobacco use in a patient with HLA-DRB1. The immune response in RA starts at sites distant from the synovial joints, such as the lung, gums, and GI tract. In these tissues, modified proteins are produced by biochemical reactions such as citrullination. (4)In RA, an abnormal immune response leads to chronic inflammation within the synovium lining the joints. The inflammatory cytokines released cause synovitis and lead to the destruction of articular cartilage and bone erosion through pannus formation. Immune cells infiltrate the synovium causing further damage. (4) In summary: formation of antibodies to citrullinated proteins, these antibodies begin attacking wrong tissues.Osteoarthritis (OA):The primary pathological feature of OA is the degeneration of articular cartilage that cushions the joints causing surface irregularity, and focal erosions. These changes progress down the bone and eventually involve the entire joint surface. Mechanical stress triggers chondrocyte dysfunction, leading to an imbalance between cartilage synthesis and degradation that cause cartilage outgrowths that ossify and form osteophytes. This results in the release of enzymes that degrade the extracellular matrix, leading to progressive cartilage loss. As more of the collagen matrix is damaged, chondrocytes undergo apoptosis. Improperly mineralized collagen causes subchondral bone thickening; in advanced disease, bone cysts infrequently occur (5). In summary: Osteophytes formation and cartilage loss.3. Clinical Presentation:Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA):The most common and predominant symptoms include joint pain and swelling, usually starting insidiously over a period of weeks to months. RA typically affects multiple joints symmetrically, commonly involving small joints of the hands, wrists, feet and progresses to involve proximal joints if left untreated. Morning stiffness lasting more than an hour is a characteristic feature. The affected joint will be painful if pressure is applied to the joint or on movement with or without joint swelling. Synovial thickening with a "boggy" feel on palpation will be noted. The classical physical findings of ulnar deviation, metacarpophalangeal joint subluxation, swan neck deformity, Boutonniere deformity, and the "bowstring" sign (prominent and tight tendons on the dorsum of the hand) are seen in advanced chronic disease. (4) Around ¼ of patients with RA may present with rheumatoid noduleswhich are well demarcated, flesh-colored subcutaneous lumps. They are usually described as being doughy or firm and are not typically tender unless they are inflamed. They are usually found on areas susceptible to repeated trauma or pressure and include the elbows, fingers and forearms. Osteoarthritis (OA):OA primarily affects weight-bearing joints such as knees, hips, spine, and hands. Symptoms include joint pain aggravated by activity and relieved with rest, morning stiffness lasting less than 30 minutes, joint swelling due to secondary inflammation, and occasionally the formation of bony outgrowths called osteophytes (6). Tenderness may be present at joint lines, and there may be pain upon passive motion. Classic physical exam findings in hand OA include Heberden's nodes (posterolateral swellings of DIP joints), Bouchard's nodes (posterolateral swellings of PIP joints), and “squaring” at the base of the thumb (first Carpal-Metarcapal or CMC joints), bony enlargement, crepitus, effusions (non-inflammatory), and a limited range of motion. Patients may also experience bony swelling, joint deformity, and instability (patients complain that the joint is “giving way” or “buckling,” a sign of muscle weakness). (5)4. Lab findings:Rheumatoid Arthritis: Laboratory testing often reveals anemia of chronic disease (increased ferritin, decreased iron and TIBC) and thrombocytosis. Neutropenia may be present if Felty syndrome is present. RF is present in 80-90% of patients with a sensitivity of 69%. In patients who are asymptomatic or those that have arthralgias, a positive RF and especially CCP predicts the onset of clinical RA. Patients with RA with RF, ACPA, or both are designated as having seropositive RA. About 10% of RA patients are seronegative. ESR and levels of CRP are usually elevated in patients with active disease and can be used to assess disease activity. The synovial fluid in RA will also reveal low C3 and C4 levels despite elevated serum levels.(4) Some non-specific inflammatory markers such as ESR, CRP can help you guide your diagnosis of RA.Osteoarthritis:Lab findings are not significant. Clinical diagnosis if the following are present: 1) pain worse with activity and better with rest, 2) age more than 45 years, 3) morning stiffness lasting less than 30 minutes, 4) bony joint enlargement, and 5) limitation in range of motion. Blood tests such as CBC, ESR, rheumatoid factor, ANA are usually normal but usually ordered to rule out an inflammatory process. Synovial fluid should show a white blood cell count less than 2,000/microL, predominantly mononuclear cells (non-inflammatory). X-rays of the affected joint can show findings consistent with OA, such as marginal osteophytes, joint space narrowing, subchondral sclerosis, and cysts; however, radiographic findings do not correlate to the severity of the disease and may not be present early in the disease. (5)5. Treatment Approaches:Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA):There is no cure for RA.The goal of treatment in RA is inducing remission and optimizing quality of life. This is initially done by beginning DMARDs, include methotrexate, hydroxychloroquine, sulfasalazine, and leflunomide. Methotrexate is the initial DMARD of choice. Anti-TNF-alpha inhibitors include etanercept, infliximab, adalimumab, golimumab, and certolizumab may be used if DMARDs fail. NSAIDs are used to control joint pain and inflammation. Corticosteroids may be used as a bridge therapy to DMARDs in a newly diagnosed patient with a very active disease. (7) Coronary artery disease has a strong association with RA. RA is an independent risk factor for the development of coronary artery disease (CAD) and accelerates the development of CAD in these patients. Accelerated atherosclerosis is the primary cause of morbidity and mortality. There is increased insulin resistance and diabetes mellitus associated with RA and is thought to be due to chronic inflammation. When treated with specific DMARDs such as hydroxychloroquine, methotrexate, and TNF antagonists, there was a marked improvement in glucose control in these patients. (8) RA is not just a disease of the joints, it is able to affect multiple organ systems.Osteoarthritis (OA):OA treatment aims at reducing pain and improving joint function through a combination of non-pharmacological interventions like exercise programs tailored to strengthen muscles around affected joints, weight management strategies, and assistive devices like braces or walking aids if required (9). Medications including analgesics or nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs may be prescribed for pain relief when necessary. Duloxetine has modest activity in relieving pain associated with OA. Intraarticular glucocorticoid joint injections have a variable response but are an option for those wanting to postpone surgical intervention. In severe cases where conservative measures fail, surgical options like joint replacement may be considered (9). Weight loss is a critical intervention in those who have overweight and obesity; each pound of weight loss can decrease the load across the knee 3 to 6-fold. (5) Summary: Medications (NSAIDs, topical, duloxetine), weight loss, PT, intraarticular injections of corticosteroids, and joint replacement.________________________________Conclusion: Now we conclude episode number 146, “RA vs. OA.” Future Dr. Magurany explained that rheumatoid arthritis is an autoimmune disease that presents with joint pain and inflammation, mostly on hands and small joints, accompanied by morning stiffness longer than 1 hour. The rheumatoid factor and ACPA may be positive in a percentage of patients but not always. The base of treatment is early treatment with disease-modifying antirheumatic drugs to induce remission of the disease. OA affects weight-bearing joints with little to no inflammation, treatment is mainly lifestyle modifications, analgesics, intraarticular injections, and joint replacement.This week we thank Hector Arreaza and Thomas Magurany. Audio editing by Adrianne Silva.Even without trying, every night you go to bed a little wiser. Thanks for listening to Rio Bravo qWeek Podcast. We want to hear from you, send us an email at RioBravoqWeek@clinicasierravista.org, or visit our website riobravofmrp.org/qweek. See you next week! _____________________References:Myasoedova E, Crowson CS & Gabriel SE et al. (2010). Is the incidence of rheumatoid arthritis rising?: Results from Olmsted County, Minnesota, 1955-2007. Arthritis and Rheumatism, 62(6), 1576-1582.Goldring MB & Goldring SR. (2007). Osteoarthritis. Journal of Cellular Physiology, 213(3), 626-634.King LK, March L, Anandacoomarasamy A. Obesity & osteoarthritis. Indian J Med Res. 2013;138(2):185-93. PMID: 24056594; PMCID: PMC3788203.Chauhan K, Jandu JS, Brent LH, et al. Rheumatoid Arthritis. [Updated 2023 May 25]. In: StatPearls [Internet]. Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing; 2023 Jan-.Sen R, Hurley JA. Osteoarthritis. [Updated 2023 Feb 20]. In: StatPearls [Internet]. Treasure Island (FL): StatPearls Publishing; 2023 Jan-.Hunter DJ, Bierma-Zeinstra S. & Eckstein F. (2014). OARSI Clinical Trials Recommendations: Design and conduct of clinical trials for primary hip and knee osteoarthritis: An expert consensus initiative of the European Society for Clinical and Economic Aspects of Osteoporosis and Osteoarthritis (ESCEO) Task Force in collaboration with the Osteoarthritis Research Society International (OARSI). Osteoarthritis Cartilage, 22(7), 363-381.van Everdingen AA, Jacobs JW, Siewertsz Van Reesema DR, Bijlsma JW. Low-dose prednisone therapy for patients with early active rheumatoid arthritis: clinical efficacy, disease-modifying properties, and side effects: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial. Ann Intern Med. 2002 Jan 1;136(1):1-12. doi: 10.7326/0003-4819-136-1-200201010-00006. PMID: 11777359.Nicolau J, Lequerré T, Bacquet H, Vittecoq O. Rheumatoid arthritis, insulin resistance, and diabetes. Joint Bone Spine. 2017 Jul;84(4):411-416.Fernandes L, Hagen KB, Bijlsma JWJ et al. (2019). EULAR recommendations for non-pharmacological core management of hip and knee osteoarthritis. Annals of Rheumatic Diseases, 79(6), 715-722.Royalty-free music used for this episode: "Driving the Point." Downloaded on July 29, 2023, from https://www.videvo.net/ 

Thanks to ACPA, we are able share our own Heather Shea's presidential address as she assumed leadership of ACPA: College Student Educators International. Heather focuses on fostering critical hope for ourselves as student affairs educators and for students. You'll also get to hear Kathy Adams Riester and Keith Edwards introducing Heather to the association membership.

Join us in a conversation with one of this season's co-hosts, Dr. Brittany Devies, as she shares with us her thoughts and research on Women's Leadership Learning. Dr. Brittany Devies (she/her) is the Program Manager for Leadership Studies and Development at the University of Maryland, College Park, focusing on academic and co-curricular leadership education initiatives affiliated with the Leadership and Community Service-Learning office within the Adele H. Stamp Student Union. She also serves as an Affiliate Faculty Member in the Department of Counseling, Higher Education & Special Education within the College of Education at the University of Maryland, College Park and as an Adjunct Faculty member at Florida State University in their College of Education. She cares deeply about creating accessible and equitable leadership learning environments for all students. She has received several honors and awards, including the NASPA NOW Inquiry Award, NASPA Student Leadership Programs and Knowledge Community's Outstanding Emerging Professional Award, and ACPA's Annuit Coeptis Emerging Professional Award. She was inducted into the American Association of Colleges and Universities' Future Leaders Society and named a 33 Under 33 Featured Alumni for Delta Delta Delta national fraternity. She received her Ph.D. in Higher Education from Florida State University, her M.S. in Higher Education from Florida State University, and her B.S.Ed. in Early and Middle Childhood Studies with a minor in Leadership Studies from The Ohio State University. Want to stay connected to the NASPA SLPKC? Follow us on social media: Facebook: Student Leadership Programs Knowledge Community Instagram: @naspa_slpkc Twitter: @naspaslpkc Looking to volunteer with NASPA and the SLPKC? Check out our open volunteer opportunities at: www.naspa.org/volunteer

Captain Gary Russell, an Air Canada Pilot with over 25 years of flying experiences chats about the current labour issues within the airline industry, the mystery of MH370, what's going on airports, the airline's response to climate change, and the labour/union movement. Twitter: @garybrussell -- Captain Gary Russell is a Boeing 737 pilot based in Vancouver, and is a former union executive for the Air Canada Pilots Association. Prior to his appointment as the Association's Chairman, he served two terms as a national board member and has been actively involved in the Association over the past decade, including as a local pilot representative, magazine editor, trustee and Chair of the External Affairs Committee. Like many pilots in Canada, Captain Russell began his flying career as a flight instructor and later a pilot in Northern Canada and overseas before being hired by Air Canada in 2007. As Chairman, Captain Russell presided over board meetings and acted as the pilots' principal representative to Air Canada on employment matters, including negotiation and administration of their collective agreement and was the official spokesperson for ACPA. The Air Canada Pilots Association (ACPA) currently represents approximately 4,200 commercial pilots, with 600 previously furloughed during the COVID crisis all of whom have now returned to active status. These highly skilled professional pilots fly passengers and cargo across Canada and around the world on Air Canada and Air Canada rouge. Gary resides on a farm in Comox, BC with his wife, Chantal, and son, Ben.

This week's episode is with Kelvin who I met more recently but now have a great friendship.  Kelvin was the prior Convention chair for ACPA the year before I held that role and gave me a lot of great advice, support, and real talk about the role.  He hasn't stopped.  In this conversation, I learn more about his life growing up and we explore our mutual love of K-Pop.  

This week's episode features Dr. Daisy Pitel, someone that I've gotten to know through ACPA, College Student Educators International.  She's been a role model leader for me in the Asian Pacific American community there but this is our first true conversation to get to know each other.  In this podcast entry, you'll hear more about her life as a Filipina/Pinay woman, her educational journey, and her life as a mom of one the cutest kids I've ever seen.  Take a listen.

Evidence-Based Clinical Practice Guideline For Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) .This clinical practice guideline is for the identification, diagnosis, and treatment of people with ADHD.It outlines a roadmap for ADHD clinical practice, research and policy, now and in the future, with a focus on everyday functioning and quality of life for people who are living with ADHD and those who support them.The Guideline includes eight chapters covering the identification, diagnosis, and treatment of people with ADHD, as well as considerations for subgroups, service & policy and further research.1. Identification2. Diagnosis3. Treatment & Support4. Non-Pharmacological Interventions5. Pharmacological Interventions6. Considerations – Subgroups7. Considerations – Service & Policy8. Considerations – ResearchApprovalsThis guideline has been approved by the NHMRC and endorsed by APS, RACP, RACGP, Speech Pathology Australia, Occupational Therapy Australia, ACPA, AAPI, ADHD WA, ADHD Foundation, RANZCP, ADHD Australia and the World Federation of ADHD.The guidelines can be downloaded at the link below:https://aadpa.com.au/guideline/

We chat with Dr. Susan Komives. She is professor emerita from the student affairs graduate program at the University of Maryland, College Park where she taught for 25 years and was a VPSA at two institutions. Dr. Komives is past president of both ACPA and CAS and is the recipient of the life time achievement awards from ALE, ACPA, and NASPA. Background info on our guest plus a full transcript is available at studentaffairspodcast.com/ot31

On this episode, we engage in a conversation with Dr. Sonja Ardoin about her research interests and class consciousness in leadership education. Sonja Ardoin, Ph.D. is a learner, educator, facilitator, and author. Proud of her rural hometown of Vidrine, Louisiana, her working-class, Cajun roots, and her first-generation college student to PhD journey, Sonja holds degrees from LSU, Florida State, and NC State. She considers herself a scholar-practitioner of higher education; she served as an administrator for 10 years before shifting to the faculty in 2015. She currently serves as an associate professor of higher education and student affairs at Clemson University. Sonja studies social class identity, college access and success for rural and first-generation college students, student and women's leadership, and career preparation and pathways in higher education and student affairs. Sonja has published four books, one monograph, and numerous book chapters and journal articles. She stays engaged in the broader field through ACPA, AFLV, ASHE, the Center for First-generation Student Success, NASPA, SACSA, and several journal editorial boards. She enjoys books, traveling, music, sports, laughing, and spending time with her husband and pup. Learn more about Sonja's work at www.sonjaardoin.com.