Podcasts about so bob

Poor guy. Here at BEL we've been kgov.com/dissed quite a bit, by the best of 'em. But Arthur's REALLY been dissed, and canceled! Almost like he doesn't even exist. So Bob talks with Mr. Goldberg about how the SPLC hate group, that is, the Southern Poverty Law Center, has attacked him, and how progressives claim to promote individual sexual identity but in reality they fiercely repress anyone who identifies as a former homosexual. To support Arthur's legal battle, please click on over to the Natural Law Defense Fund. (BEL donated and it's easy to do.) And while BEL hasn't been attacked by SPLC, we have been dissed by the best! See our list at kgov.com/dissed. (Yes, we do have a persecution complex. It's not that we want to be persecuted, but it is an occupational hazard.) Today's Resource: Nicer Than God Enjoy this fast-paced critique of religion where Bob Enyart presents questions such as: When should a Christian lie? Should he ever mock? How about name-calling? Does sarcasm belong in the Christian's repertoire? How about ridicule? Learn why nice is not in the Bible and how to identify a Nicer-Than-God Christian. If Christians are not supposed to judge, then why does Jesus command us to judge rightly? And if only God will judge, then why does Paul say that we believers will judge the angels, and judge the world? If Jesus logged onto a website forum under a pseudonym, would we recognize Him, or condemn Him? This album communicates well Bob Enyart's unique style. But, warning, warning, warning, Will Robertson, it is not for the faint of heart. The Bible tells the story of human history and the work of God for His creation. And as all good stories do, Scripture has a plot! Grasping the big picture will help you reconcile many seemingly contradictory and controversial Bible passages. So consider listening to The Plot series based on Bob's manuscript of the same title. Then enjoy these book studies and see how the big picture can help you to better know the living God.

Baptism Debate: DBC's Will Duffy will debate baptism on Thursday, June 24th on YouTube. * Exodus Symbols: As an apologist at heart (that is, a defender of the Gospel), Bob Enyart begins this final section of our Exodus series by presenting the latest astounding discoveries from the discipline of Egyptology. Scholars and scientists have long uncovered tremendous evidence corroborating the Bible's account of creation, the global flood, the supernatural fall of Jericho, Israel's kingdom, and ultimately, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, scant corroborating evidence for the Exodus has long been known. So Bob presents the newly uncovered mountain of evidence for the historicity of Israel's sojourn in Egypt and then the Exodus itself! After the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to record the text for our previous two installments of this study, the story of the Exodus itself and then the Exodus legal code, God then revealed to this deliverer Israel's symbolic ordinances of the sacrifices, the tabernacle, and the priesthood. What does it all mean? Jesus taught that the Scriptures speak of Him. So, that is how we interpret the symbolic sections of the Hebrew Bible. The portions of Scripture that contain less historical narrative and more religious ritual tell us much about Christ, His sacrifice, and His mission. So, along with the teacher, the student too must begin by keeping Jesus Christ foremost in mind and in interpretation. This study uses that primary methodology, that the shed blood, the ark of the testimony, and the mediators, all speak of the Messiah. Then, Bob applies the other lessons learned from his "Hermeneutics: Tools for Understanding the Bible". As a result, the meaning of many symbolic details, particulars that at first may seem mysterious and even inscrutable, often become clear as we conclude our verse-by-verse study of the second book in the Bible, Moses' book of The Exodus!Available on audio or video. Today's Resource: Please consider one of our monthly subscriptions that will not only help support BEL, but they also promote better understanding of the Bible and will equip you to be a better witness to those around you. BEL SUBSCRIPTIONS Monthly Audio & Video Downloads: Now you can subscribe to monthly sermons, Bible studies or topical videos in download form.  Monthly Sermons: Enjoy all of Bob's sermons from the month on Sermon Video DVDs, great also to watch with the family. Or, get these on Sermon Audio CDs which are standard audio Compact Discs that will play on any CD player including the one in your car. Or get them on a single Sermon MP3-CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Bible Studies: Enjoy the Scriptures with Bob's Monthly Bible Study DVDs, great too for a small group Bible study. Or get these teachings on a single Monthly Bible Study Audio MP3- CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Topical Videos: Coming to your mailbox, you'll get a Monthly Topical DVD to enjoy one of Bob's great videos specially selected to be entertaining and to teach about life from a biblical worldview.Monthly Best of Bob Shows: Every month our crew selects the eight best BEL shows of the month and for the folks who might have missed some of them, we mail them out on the Best of Bob MP3-CD.Monthly BEL TV Classics: Enjoy Bob Enyart's timeless, popular TV show delivered to your home on the Monthly BEL TV Classics DVDs with great audio and video clarity thanks to our state-of-the-art mastering from the studio-quality Sony beta tapes to DVD!Monthly Donation: For folks who just want to make sure that Bob Enyart Live stays on the air, please consider making a pledge in the form of a Monthly Donation.  

  * Exodus Symbols: As an apologist at heart (that is, a defender of the Gospel), Bob Enyart begins this final section of our Exodus series by presenting the latest astounding discoveries from the discipline of Egyptology. Scholars and scientists have long uncovered tremendous evidence corroborating the Bible's account of creation, the global flood, the supernatural fall of Jericho, Israel's kingdom, and ultimately, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, scant corroborating evidence for the Exodus has long been known. So Bob presents the newly uncovered mountain of evidence for the historicity of Israel's sojourn in Egypt and then the Exodus itself! After the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to record the text for our previous two installments of this study, the story of the Exodus itself and then the Exodus legal code, God then revealed to this deliverer Israel's symbolic ordinances of the sacrifices, the tabernacle, and the priesthood. What does it all mean? Jesus taught that the Scriptures speak of Him. So, that is how we interpret the symbolic sections of the Hebrew Bible. The portions of Scripture that contain less historical narrative and more religious ritual tell us much about Christ, His sacrifice, and His mission. So, along with the teacher, the student too must begin by keeping Jesus Christ foremost in mind and in interpretation. This study uses that primary methodology, that the shed blood, the ark of the testimony, and the mediators, all speak of the Messiah. Then, Bob applies the other lessons learned from his "Hermeneutics: Tools for Understanding the Bible". As a result, the meaning of many symbolic details, particulars that at first may seem mysterious and even inscrutable, often become clear as we conclude our verse-by-verse study of the second book in the Bible, Moses' book of The Exodus!Available on audio or video. Today's Resource: Please consider one of our monthly subscriptions that will not only help support BEL, but they also promote better understanding of the Bible and will equip you to be a better witness to those around you. BEL SUBSCRIPTIONS Monthly Audio & Video Downloads: Now you can subscribe to monthly sermons, Bible studies or topical videos in download form.  Monthly Sermons: Enjoy all of Bob's sermons from the month on Sermon Video DVDs, great also to watch with the family. Or, get these on Sermon Audio CDs which are standard audio Compact Discs that will play on any CD player including the one in your car. Or get them on a single Sermon MP3-CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Bible Studies: Enjoy the Scriptures with Bob's Monthly Bible Study DVDs, great too for a small group Bible study. Or get these teachings on a single Monthly Bible Study Audio MP3- CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Topical Videos: Coming to your mailbox, you'll get a Monthly Topical DVD to enjoy one of Bob's great videos specially selected to be entertaining and to teach about life from a biblical worldview.Monthly Best of Bob Shows: Every month our crew selects the eight best BEL shows of the month and for the folks who might have missed some of them, we mail them out on the Best of Bob MP3-CD.Monthly BEL TV Classics: Enjoy Bob Enyart's timeless, popular TV show delivered to your home on the Monthly BEL TV Classics DVDs with great audio and video clarity thanks to our state-of-the-art mastering from the studio-quality Sony beta tapes to DVD!Monthly Donation: For folks who just want to make sure that Bob Enyart Live stays on the air, please consider making a pledge in the form of a Monthly Donation.  

  * Exodus Symbols: As an apologist at heart (that is, a defender of the Gospel), Bob Enyart begins this final section of our Exodus series by presenting the latest astounding discoveries from the discipline of Egyptology. Scholars and scientists have long uncovered tremendous evidence corroborating the Bible's account of creation, the global flood, the supernatural fall of Jericho, Israel's kingdom, and ultimately, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, scant corroborating evidence for the Exodus has long been known. So Bob presents the newly uncovered mountain of evidence for the historicity of Israel's sojourn in Egypt and then the Exodus itself! After the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to record the text for our previous two installments of this study, the story of the Exodus itself and then the Exodus legal code, God then revealed to this deliverer Israel's symbolic ordinances of the sacrifices, the tabernacle, and the priesthood. What does it all mean? Jesus taught that the Scriptures speak of Him. So, that is how we interpret the symbolic sections of the Hebrew Bible. The portions of Scripture that contain less historical narrative and more religious ritual tell us much about Christ, His sacrifice, and His mission. So, along with the teacher, the student too must begin by keeping Jesus Christ foremost in mind and in interpretation. This study uses that primary methodology, that the shed blood, the ark of the testimony, and the mediators, all speak of the Messiah. Then, Bob applies the other lessons learned from his "Hermeneutics: Tools for Understanding the Bible". As a result, the meaning of many symbolic details, particulars that at first may seem mysterious and even inscrutable, often become clear as we conclude our verse-by-verse study of the second book in the Bible, Moses' book of The Exodus!Available on audio or video. Today's Resource: Please consider one of our monthly subscriptions that will not only help support BEL, but they also promote better understanding of the Bible and will equip you to be a better witness to those around you. BEL SUBSCRIPTIONS Monthly Audio & Video Downloads: Now you can subscribe to monthly sermons, Bible studies or topical videos in download form.  Monthly Sermons: Enjoy all of Bob's sermons from the month on Sermon Video DVDs, great also to watch with the family. Or, get these on Sermon Audio CDs which are standard audio Compact Discs that will play on any CD player including the one in your car. Or get them on a single Sermon MP3-CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Bible Studies: Enjoy the Scriptures with Bob's Monthly Bible Study DVDs, great too for a small group Bible study. Or get these teachings on a single Monthly Bible Study Audio MP3- CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Topical Videos: Coming to your mailbox, you'll get a Monthly Topical DVD to enjoy one of Bob's great videos specially selected to be entertaining and to teach about life from a biblical worldview.Monthly Best of Bob Shows: Every month our crew selects the eight best BEL shows of the month and for the folks who might have missed some of them, we mail them out on the Best of Bob MP3-CD.Monthly BEL TV Classics: Enjoy Bob Enyart's timeless, popular TV show delivered to your home on the Monthly BEL TV Classics DVDs with great audio and video clarity thanks to our state-of-the-art mastering from the studio-quality Sony beta tapes to DVD!Monthly Donation: For folks who just want to make sure that Bob Enyart Live stays on the air, please consider making a pledge in the form of a Monthly Donation.  

  * Exodus Symbols: As an apologist at heart (that is, a defender of the Gospel), Bob Enyart begins this final section of our Exodus series by presenting the latest astounding discoveries from the discipline of Egyptology. Scholars and scientists have long uncovered tremendous evidence corroborating the Bible's account of creation, the global flood, the supernatural fall of Jericho, Israel's kingdom, and ultimately, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, scant corroborating evidence for the Exodus has long been known. So Bob presents the newly uncovered mountain of evidence for the historicity of Israel's sojourn in Egypt and then the Exodus itself! After the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to record the text for our previous two installments of this study, the story of the Exodus itself and then the Exodus legal code, God then revealed to this deliverer Israel's symbolic ordinances of the sacrifices, the tabernacle, and the priesthood. What does it all mean? Jesus taught that the Scriptures speak of Him. So, that is how we interpret the symbolic sections of the Hebrew Bible. The portions of Scripture that contain less historical narrative and more religious ritual tell us much about Christ, His sacrifice, and His mission. So, along with the teacher, the student too must begin by keeping Jesus Christ foremost in mind and in interpretation. This study uses that primary methodology, that the shed blood, the ark of the testimony, and the mediators, all speak of the Messiah. Then, Bob applies the other lessons learned from his "Hermeneutics: Tools for Understanding the Bible". As a result, the meaning of many symbolic details, particulars that at first may seem mysterious and even inscrutable, often become clear as we conclude our verse-by-verse study of the second book in the Bible, Moses' book of The Exodus!Available on audio or video. Today's Resource: Please consider one of our monthly subscriptions that will not only help support BEL, but they also promote better understanding of the Bible and will equip you to be a better witness to those around you. BEL SUBSCRIPTIONS Monthly Audio & Video Downloads: Now you can subscribe to monthly sermons, Bible studies or topical videos in download form.  Monthly Sermons: Enjoy all of Bob's sermons from the month on Sermon Video DVDs, great also to watch with the family. Or, get these on Sermon Audio CDs which are standard audio Compact Discs that will play on any CD player including the one in your car. Or get them on a single Sermon MP3-CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Bible Studies: Enjoy the Scriptures with Bob's Monthly Bible Study DVDs, great too for a small group Bible study. Or get these teachings on a single Monthly Bible Study Audio MP3- CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Topical Videos: Coming to your mailbox, you'll get a Monthly Topical DVD to enjoy one of Bob's great videos specially selected to be entertaining and to teach about life from a biblical worldview.Monthly Best of Bob Shows: Every month our crew selects the eight best BEL shows of the month and for the folks who might have missed some of them, we mail them out on the Best of Bob MP3-CD.Monthly BEL TV Classics: Enjoy Bob Enyart's timeless, popular TV show delivered to your home on the Monthly BEL TV Classics DVDs with great audio and video clarity thanks to our state-of-the-art mastering from the studio-quality Sony beta tapes to DVD!Monthly Donation: For folks who just want to make sure that Bob Enyart Live stays on the air, please consider making a pledge in the form of a Monthly Donation.  

Bob Enyart reports on the FBI's worldwide sting arresting 800 bad guys, some as they plan murder, by getting the evil morons to sign up for the FBI-created ANOM app (i.e., anonymous). Thinking that the FBI then couldn't access their encrypted communications, in reality, they were all flowing, in clear text, directly to FBI Special Agents! Awesome. (It's like murderers who commit suicide to escape the consequences who put themselves immediately into the hands of the Judge; skip the arraignment; skip the trial; skip the verdict; go right to awaiting sentencing!) Also the FBI recovered more than half of Colonial Pipeline's ransom! So Bob lays out the case for the death penalty for those who plant viruses and ransomware and presents two items on our List of Ways to Reduce Crime which you can. find at kgov.com/crime. Today's resource: God's Criminal Justice System: Does the Bible support the death penalty before the crucifixion? How about after the crucifixion? The death penalty forms the centerpiece of the Gospel. The first and last books of the Bible deal with execution, as do the Old and New Testaments generally. Enjoy this presentation of God's ideas about criminal justice. Many Christians pray for an open door to share the Gospel with a friend. That door opens with almost every newscast and social media headline, for those who benefit from God's Criminal Justice System. Learn about: • The Bible's list of capital crimes. • Altered and repealed criminal laws. • Bible prescription for property crimes. • Bible teaching on corporal punishment. • Presumption of innocence. • Judge selection and appeals. • Admissibility of evidence. • Perjury and contempt of court. • Attempted crime. • Correcting modern law principles • Incarceration. • Unintentional and justifiable homicide. • Civil disobedience and more...     And learn also that: • Jesus supports the death penalty. • Revelation supports the death penalty. • Paul supports the death penalty. • Acts supports the death penalty. • Hebrews supports the death penalty. • Christians should support the death penalty. And learn how to biblically answer those who claim that: • Jesus repealed an-eye-for-an-eye punishment. • Christians must forgive the murderer. • Christians should not judge. • Christians should not repay evil for evil. • Only those without sin can enforce a death penalty. • Thou shall not kill.

Today Bob dissects some of BLM's and Matt Walsh's problems. He does however praise Walsh for his opposition to kgov.com/libertarianism and for Matt's brilliant $100,000 fundraiser that left Altez' hair on fire as she refused the funds for her own grandmother. Using her abuela as a political pawn was comfortable for AOC because she's long supported the Muslims who do the same to the Palestinians and BLM supporters who do the same to inner city Blacks. So Bob shares some of the reasons why Black Lives Matter does not oppose black men beating up black women and abandoning their children. Matt Walsh's "Romans 12:20 Abuela Fundraiser" acts out the words of the Apostle Paul who wrote, "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." Tragically though, Walsh is an older earth and an evolutionist, apparently unaware that those two views have done more to turn millions against Christ, and to destroy both good governance and biblical morality, than any other belief system. Bob demonstrates this by showing how belief in an old earth, by those who claim to support the Bible, leads them to reject the global flood, the Tower of Babel, and the Exodus, and so, they leave the genealogy of Jesus Christ and the Ten Commandments themselves without any historical foundation. So then, Thou shall not steal, is undermined and socialism rules, and God made us male and female falls, and homos and trannies rule. And thus, Matt Walsh himself is weak on homosexuality trying to walk a line of gentle criticism with significant tolerance, critizing Pride Month but not a word against kgov.com/homos. Today's Resource: Focus on the Strategy Trilogy In Focus on the Strategy #1, using audio and video clips of Christian leaders, Bob Enyart presents seven lines of evidence that our national ministries have endorsed legal positivism, elevating man's rules and the Constitution above God, and giving them precedence above eternal laws such as Thou shall not murder. Focus on the Strategy #2 not only documents the political sell-out of the pro-life movement, it answers the question of how to restore the movement and end America's 'legalized' child killing. Focus II stands alone, preferably viewed before Focus #I, and documents that: Colorado's Republican Governor John Love signed the nation's first permissive abortion law in 1967. Republican U.S. Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun wrote Roe v. Wade. The 7-to-2 Roe v. Wade ruling was approved with five a Republican majority of five votes. The Republican Justices now on the Court (including Scalia, Thomas, Alito and Roberts) oppose personhood. All six Republican judges on the 11th circuit (nominated by Reagan, Bush Sr. & George W. Bush) voted to kill Terri Schiavo. Republican "pro-life" heroine Priscilla Owen voted to abort "Baby 10" as a Texas Supreme Court judge. Republican "pro-life" hero Samuel Alito sided with Planned Parenthood in repeated 3rd-circuit rulings, including ruling to keep partial birth abortion legal. Republican George W. Bush refused to support South Dakota's total ban on abortion. Hundreds of pro-life laws that regulate abortion that will actually keep abortion legal after Roe is overturned such as the Informed Consent laws. In Focus on the Strategy #3 Bob Enyart presents the 3-pronged strategy to end abortion in America. Three-fold Strategy: 1. Criminalize: recriminalize the intentional killing of the unborn and other innocents through state and national personhood efforts. 2. Demoralize: create unbearable social tension and ensure that there is no child killing with tranquility in order to coerce the government to correct the injustice of shedding innocent blood. 3. Evangelize: persuade individuals by education and evangelism to honor the God-given right to life.

  * Exodus Symbols: As an apologist at heart (that is, a defender of the Gospel), Bob Enyart begins this final section of our Exodus series by presenting the latest astounding discoveries from the discipline of Egyptology. Scholars and scientists have long uncovered tremendous evidence corroborating the Bible's account of creation, the global flood, the supernatural fall of Jericho, Israel's kingdom, and ultimately, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, scant corroborating evidence for the Exodus has long been known. So Bob presents the newly uncovered mountain of evidence for the historicity of Israel's sojourn in Egypt and then the Exodus itself! After the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to record the text for our previous two installments of this study, the story of the Exodus itself and then the Exodus legal code, God then revealed to this deliverer Israel's symbolic ordinances of the sacrifices, the tabernacle, and the priesthood. What does it all mean? Jesus taught that the Scriptures speak of Him. So, that is how we interpret the symbolic sections of the Hebrew Bible. The portions of Scripture that contain less historical narrative and more religious ritual tell us much about Christ, His sacrifice, and His mission. So, along with the teacher, the student too must begin by keeping Jesus Christ foremost in mind and in interpretation. This study uses that primary methodology, that the shed blood, the ark of the testimony, and the mediators, all speak of the Messiah. Then, Bob applies the other lessons learned from his "Hermeneutics: Tools for Understanding the Bible". As a result, the meaning of many symbolic details, particulars that at first may seem mysterious and even inscrutable, often become clear as we conclude our verse-by-verse study of the second book in the Bible, Moses' book of The Exodus!Available on audio or video. Today's Resource: Please consider one of our monthly subscriptions that will not only help support BEL, but they also promote better understanding of the Bible and will equip you to be a better witness to those around you. BEL SUBSCRIPTIONS Monthly Audio & Video Downloads: Now you can subscribe to monthly sermons, Bible studies or topical videos in download form.  Monthly Sermons: Enjoy all of Bob's sermons from the month on Sermon Video DVDs, great also to watch with the family. Or, get these on Sermon Audio CDs which are standard audio Compact Discs that will play on any CD player including the one in your car. Or get them on a single Sermon MP3-CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Bible Studies: Enjoy the Scriptures with Bob's Monthly Bible Study DVDs, great too for a small group Bible study. Or get these teachings on a single Monthly Bible Study Audio MP3- CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Topical Videos: Coming to your mailbox, you'll get a Monthly Topical DVD to enjoy one of Bob's great videos specially selected to be entertaining and to teach about life from a biblical worldview.Monthly Best of Bob Shows: Every month our crew selects the eight best BEL shows of the month and for the folks who might have missed some of them, we mail them out on the Best of Bob MP3-CD.Monthly BEL TV Classics: Enjoy Bob Enyart's timeless, popular TV show delivered to your home on the Monthly BEL TV Classics DVDs with great audio and video clarity thanks to our state-of-the-art mastering from the studio-quality Sony beta tapes to DVD!Monthly Donation: For folks who just want to make sure that Bob Enyart Live stays on the air, please consider making a pledge in the form of a Monthly Donation.  

  * Exodus Symbols: As an apologist at heart (that is, a defender of the Gospel), Bob Enyart begins this final section of our Exodus series by presenting the latest astounding discoveries from the discipline of Egyptology. Scholars and scientists have long uncovered tremendous evidence corroborating the Bible's account of creation, the global flood, the supernatural fall of Jericho, Israel's kingdom, and ultimately, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, scant corroborating evidence for the Exodus has long been known. So Bob presents the newly uncovered mountain of evidence for the historicity of Israel's sojourn in Egypt and then the Exodus itself! After the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to record the text for our previous two installments of this study, the story of the Exodus itself and then the Exodus legal code, God then revealed to this deliverer Israel's symbolic ordinances of the sacrifices, the tabernacle, and the priesthood. What does it all mean? Jesus taught that the Scriptures speak of Him. So, that is how we interpret the symbolic sections of the Hebrew Bible. The portions of Scripture that contain less historical narrative and more religious ritual tell us much about Christ, His sacrifice, and His mission. So, along with the teacher, the student too must begin by keeping Jesus Christ foremost in mind and in interpretation. This study uses that primary methodology, that the shed blood, the ark of the testimony, and the mediators, all speak of the Messiah. Then, Bob applies the other lessons learned from his "Hermeneutics: Tools for Understanding the Bible". As a result, the meaning of many symbolic details, particulars that at first may seem mysterious and even inscrutable, often become clear as we conclude our verse-by-verse study of the second book in the Bible, Moses' book of The Exodus!Available on audio or video. Today's Resource: Please consider one of our monthly subscriptions that will not only help support BEL, but they also promote better understanding of the Bible and will equip you to be a better witness to those around you. BEL SUBSCRIPTIONS Monthly Audio & Video Downloads: Now you can subscribe to monthly sermons, Bible studies or topical videos in download form.  Monthly Sermons: Enjoy all of Bob's sermons from the month on Sermon Video DVDs, great also to watch with the family. Or, get these on Sermon Audio CDs which are standard audio Compact Discs that will play on any CD player including the one in your car. Or get them on a single Sermon MP3-CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Bible Studies: Enjoy the Scriptures with Bob's Monthly Bible Study DVDs, great too for a small group Bible study. Or get these teachings on a single Monthly Bible Study Audio MP3- CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Topical Videos: Coming to your mailbox, you'll get a Monthly Topical DVD to enjoy one of Bob's great videos specially selected to be entertaining and to teach about life from a biblical worldview.Monthly Best of Bob Shows: Every month our crew selects the eight best BEL shows of the month and for the folks who might have missed some of them, we mail them out on the Best of Bob MP3-CD.Monthly BEL TV Classics: Enjoy Bob Enyart's timeless, popular TV show delivered to your home on the Monthly BEL TV Classics DVDs with great audio and video clarity thanks to our state-of-the-art mastering from the studio-quality Sony beta tapes to DVD!Monthly Donation: For folks who just want to make sure that Bob Enyart Live stays on the air, please consider making a pledge in the form of a Monthly Donation.  

  * Exodus Symbols: As an apologist at heart (that is, a defender of the Gospel), Bob Enyart begins this final section of our Exodus series by presenting the latest astounding discoveries from the discipline of Egyptology. Scholars and scientists have long uncovered tremendous evidence corroborating the Bible's account of creation, the global flood, the supernatural fall of Jericho, Israel's kingdom, and ultimately, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, scant corroborating evidence for the Exodus has long been known. So Bob presents the newly uncovered mountain of evidence for the historicity of Israel's sojourn in Egypt and then the Exodus itself! After the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to record the text for our previous two installments of this study, the story of the Exodus itself and then the Exodus legal code, God then revealed to this deliverer Israel's symbolic ordinances of the sacrifices, the tabernacle, and the priesthood. What does it all mean? Jesus taught that the Scriptures speak of Him. So, that is how we interpret the symbolic sections of the Hebrew Bible. The portions of Scripture that contain less historical narrative and more religious ritual tell us much about Christ, His sacrifice, and His mission. So, along with the teacher, the student too must begin by keeping Jesus Christ foremost in mind and in interpretation. This study uses that primary methodology, that the shed blood, the ark of the testimony, and the mediators, all speak of the Messiah. Then, Bob applies the other lessons learned from his "Hermeneutics: Tools for Understanding the Bible". As a result, the meaning of many symbolic details, particulars that at first may seem mysterious and even inscrutable, often become clear as we conclude our verse-by-verse study of the second book in the Bible, Moses' book of The Exodus!Available on audio or video. Today's Resource: Please consider one of our monthly subscriptions that will not only help support BEL, but they also promote better understanding of the Bible and will equip you to be a better witness to those around you. BEL SUBSCRIPTIONS Monthly Audio & Video Downloads: Now you can subscribe to monthly sermons, Bible studies or topical videos in download form.  Monthly Sermons: Enjoy all of Bob's sermons from the month on Sermon Video DVDs, great also to watch with the family. Or, get these on Sermon Audio CDs which are standard audio Compact Discs that will play on any CD player including the one in your car. Or get them on a single Sermon MP3-CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Bible Studies: Enjoy the Scriptures with Bob's Monthly Bible Study DVDs, great too for a small group Bible study. Or get these teachings on a single Monthly Bible Study Audio MP3- CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Topical Videos: Coming to your mailbox, you'll get a Monthly Topical DVD to enjoy one of Bob's great videos specially selected to be entertaining and to teach about life from a biblical worldview.Monthly Best of Bob Shows: Every month our crew selects the eight best BEL shows of the month and for the folks who might have missed some of them, we mail them out on the Best of Bob MP3-CD.Monthly BEL TV Classics: Enjoy Bob Enyart's timeless, popular TV show delivered to your home on the Monthly BEL TV Classics DVDs with great audio and video clarity thanks to our state-of-the-art mastering from the studio-quality Sony beta tapes to DVD!Monthly Donation: For folks who just want to make sure that Bob Enyart Live stays on the air, please consider making a pledge in the form of a Monthly Donation.  

  * Exodus Symbols: As an apologist at heart (that is, a defender of the Gospel), Bob Enyart begins this final section of our Exodus series by presenting the latest astounding discoveries from the discipline of Egyptology. Scholars and scientists have long uncovered tremendous evidence corroborating the Bible's account of creation, the global flood, the supernatural fall of Jericho, Israel's kingdom, and ultimately, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, scant corroborating evidence for the Exodus has long been known. So Bob presents the newly uncovered mountain of evidence for the historicity of Israel's sojourn in Egypt and then the Exodus itself! After the Holy Spirit inspired Moses to record the text for our previous two installments of this study, the story of the Exodus itself and then the Exodus legal code, God then revealed to this deliverer Israel's symbolic ordinances of the sacrifices, the tabernacle, and the priesthood. What does it all mean? Jesus taught that the Scriptures speak of Him. So, that is how we interpret the symbolic sections of the Hebrew Bible. The portions of Scripture that contain less historical narrative and more religious ritual tell us much about Christ, His sacrifice, and His mission. So, along with the teacher, the student too must begin by keeping Jesus Christ foremost in mind and in interpretation. This study uses that primary methodology, that the shed blood, the ark of the testimony, and the mediators, all speak of the Messiah. Then, Bob applies the other lessons learned from his "Hermeneutics: Tools for Understanding the Bible". As a result, the meaning of many symbolic details, particulars that at first may seem mysterious and even inscrutable, often become clear as we conclude our verse-by-verse study of the second book in the Bible, Moses' book of The Exodus!Available on audio or video. Today's Resource: Please consider one of our monthly subscriptions that will not only help support BEL, but they also promote better understanding of the Bible and will equip you to be a better witness to those around you. BEL SUBSCRIPTIONS Monthly Audio & Video Downloads: Now you can subscribe to monthly sermons, Bible studies or topical videos in download form.  Monthly Sermons: Enjoy all of Bob's sermons from the month on Sermon Video DVDs, great also to watch with the family. Or, get these on Sermon Audio CDs which are standard audio Compact Discs that will play on any CD player including the one in your car. Or get them on a single Sermon MP3-CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Bible Studies: Enjoy the Scriptures with Bob's Monthly Bible Study DVDs, great too for a small group Bible study. Or get these teachings on a single Monthly Bible Study Audio MP3- CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer.Monthly Topical Videos: Coming to your mailbox, you'll get a Monthly Topical DVD to enjoy one of Bob's great videos specially selected to be entertaining and to teach about life from a biblical worldview.Monthly Best of Bob Shows: Every month our crew selects the eight best BEL shows of the month and for the folks who might have missed some of them, we mail them out on the Best of Bob MP3-CD.Monthly BEL TV Classics: Enjoy Bob Enyart's timeless, popular TV show delivered to your home on the Monthly BEL TV Classics DVDs with great audio and video clarity thanks to our state-of-the-art mastering from the studio-quality Sony beta tapes to DVD!Monthly Donation: For folks who just want to make sure that Bob Enyart Live stays on the air, please consider making a pledge in the form of a Monthly Donation.  

In the Galapagos Islands this week, the collapse of the gnarly looking "Darwin's Arch" became a metaphor for the collapse of the guy's theory. [After all, as documented at rsr.org/list, Charles Darwin's finches can adapt in 17 years, not needing the 2.3 million presumed by evolutionists. A single finch species introduced to a U.S. Bird Reservation in the Pacific in only 17 years had diversified their beaks, related muscles, and behavior to fill various ecological niches, just like Darwin's finches.] The guys also give an update on Bob's Tuesday night presentation on the scientific predictions that flow from the fountains-of-the-great-deep flood model. They also condemn Twitter for hiding the video of the Palestinian leader calling for Israeli Arabs to behead Jews. And the guys talk about their preemptive strike against Colorado Democrats working to introduce a vaccine passport. But first, prompted by a call from a reporter with the AFA News Network, the guys air audio of a Colorado news report about the sacred burial on government land of a dead baby eagle pointing out the hypocrisy that the state permits the killing of unborn children. So Bob and Fred air a BEL audio clip from nearly 30 years ago that prompted the state's Division of Wildlife to call the station regarding complaints that Bob had fried and eaten eagle eggs on the air!

In the Galapagos Islands this week, the collapse of the gnarly looking "Darwin's Arch" became a metaphor for the collapse of the guy's theory. [After all, as documented at rsr.org/list, Charles Darwin's finches can adapt in 17 years, not needing the 2.3 million presumed by evolutionists. A single finch species introduced to a U.S. Bird Reservation in the Pacific in only 17 years had diversified their beaks, related muscles, and behavior to fill various ecological niches, just like Darwin's finches.] The guys also give an update on Bob's Tuesday night presentation on the scientific predictions that flow from the fountains-of-the-great-deep flood model. They also condemn Twitter for hiding the video of the Palestinian leader calling for Israeli Arabs to behead Jews. And the guys talk about their preemptive strike against Colorado Democrats working to introduce a vaccine passport. But first, prompted by a call from a reporter with the AFA News Network, the guys air audio of a Colorado news report about the sacred burial on government land of a dead baby eagle pointing out the hypocrisy that the state permits the killing of unborn children. So Bob and Fred air a BEL audio clip from nearly 30 years ago that prompted the state's Division of Wildlife to call the station regarding complaints that Bob had fried and eaten eagle eggs on the air!

Paul Casey: Goals are dreams with a deadline. So you have to start somewhere and that's some kind of dream or aspiration, and then you have to have a deadline now, because it's not done until you get there. Speaker 2: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI Podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and non-profit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams, so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey, of Growing Forward Services. Coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success. Paul Casey: It's a great day to grow forward. Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Bob Smart. Bob is the principal at Southgate Elementary school, the proud home of The Dragons. And I asked Bob for something quirky about him and he talked about Chuck Taylor's sneakers. Bob, tell us more about that. Bob Smart: Well, I started getting Chuck Taylor's sneakers, old school sneaks to match the colors of the schools that I was working with. And then somewhere along the line Paul, it became kind of a problem. I've done up two dozen pair and... Paul Casey: Two dozen pairs. Bob Smart: Yeah. Sadly true. Paul Casey: Are you competing with your wife or is this just she outpacing you? Bob Smart: No. I have won that one. Yeah. Paul Casey: Well, we'll dive in with Bob after checking in with our Tri-Cities influencer sponsor. It's easy to delay answering uncomfortable questions like, what happens to my assets and my loved ones when I die? So it's no surprise that nearly 50% of Americans don't have a Will, and even fewer have an estate plan. Many disabled clients worry that they don't have enough assets to set up an estate plan. But there are important options available, to ensure that you have a voice in your medical and financial decision-making, even if your health takes a turn for the worst. Paul Casey: Estate planning gives you a voice when your health deteriorates or after you're gone. Maren Miller Bam attorney at law, is currently providing free consultations. To find out more about estate planning, or to book an appointment, call Maren at (206) 485-4066, or visit Salus. That's S-A-L-U-S-law.com today. Paul Casey: Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Bob. I was privileged to meet you, Boy, how many years ago has it been? Bob Smart: It's been a number of years. I was trying to figure that out before I came over. Paul Casey: Yeah. I'm going to guess seven or eight. Bob Smart: Yeah. Easily. Paul Casey: Yeah. You've spoken for... When I used to do these edge events, you spoke for one of those and I was able to coach one of your employees somewhere along the line, and one of the teams there. And so, yeah, it's been great. I've always enjoyed your focus on leadership and your enthusiasm. And so it's a pleasure to interview you today. So that our Tri-City influencers can get to know you, take us through a couple of career highlights that led you to your current position. Bob Smart: Well, I've probably taken the scenic route. So I started off as a science teacher and loved it and a baseball coach and loved that as well. Ended up being the school principalship and loved doing that. Had a tour of duty in central office as an assistant superintendent, I was a professor and a Dean. I was teaching in the grad school and I kept telling my students, which were principal and superintendent candidates, that the best job is principal. And then I got thinking, I was teaching a critical reflection class and I got thinking, what am I saying? So luckily I found my current job and they hired me and I love being a school principal. Paul Casey: And why do you love being a school principal? Bob Smart: I was just talking today to some folks that, if you like, anything can happen. That's the job. And it's phenomenal. You get to work with great kids, parents, teachers, staff. It's just a neat little place. Paul Casey: I too, I've been a principal and it is a variety job. No two days are exactly the same. Bob Smart: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Casey: I've chased children around the gymnasium, discipline issues. Yeah. I've sprained my ankle playing freeze tag with children before. So it's a great job, very stressful job for sure. And so you actually were a principal, went to district office professor, came back to that. Was that a difficult decision? Bob Smart: No, it really wasn't. Truly, it was thinking about what am I saying about the principalship? And I think I have had enormous satisfaction being a school principal. Paul Casey: So love what you do, is probably a philosophy that you would want to put out there for the Tri-City influencer listeners. Bob Smart: Absolutely. I mean, if you do what you love, it's a great day every day. Paul Casey: Yeah. So you're probably in your strengths zone, which multiplies your influence. How do you add the most value to the school? Bob Smart: Well, I think I'm a good listener, and I think I'm pretty thoughtful, and I think those skills really, really help. Pretty present in the building, so I have a lot of conversations in a day. Paul Casey: Do you intentionally pull yourself out of your office to be present? Is that just natural for your personality style? Or do you literally put that on your calendar, walk around? Bob Smart: Well, no, I do. I'm probably the opposite Paul. I have to return to the office. The joke is that I could probably sublet that office. I'm not in there that much. And there are definitely times I need to be there and do those kinds of things. But really most of the business is done in hallways, and walking around talking to people, hearing their stories and what their hopes and dreams are, and talking to kids all day. Paul Casey: What's been the net positive effect of that style of leadership? Bob Smart: Probably situational awareness. Being out in the building, talking to people, talking to kids, you can get a feel for what that tempo is, where the issues are, and then where you can help out. Paul Casey: Yeah. It's the old managing by wandering around MBWA. Right? Bob Smart: Exactly. Paul Casey: You can curtail problems. People say like, "Oh, while you're here, I've got a quick question." Right? Where they might not come to your office. Bob Smart: Have you been following me around? It's like every day. Paul Casey: Yes. Since you're here. Bob Smart: Yeah. Since you're here Bob. Paul Casey: And the other opposite, is people start to distrust leaders that they don't see. You've probably seen leaders or even principals along the years, that are bound to their office. Right? Bob Smart: Yeah. And it's also for our parent group too, stakeholder group. Because everyone has an experience with the school principal. And what we've been trying to do, is kind of break down those stereotypes. Paul Casey: Yeah. Bob Smart: And right now in COVID, it's really challenging. Paul Casey: Sure. Bob Smart: Prior to that, we see parents all the time and we try to stay away from the principal's office, so that people have a different experience so to speak. Paul Casey: I remember you teaching me that years ago, that people have negative experiences with school principals from their childhood, and you were trying to blast away at that stereotype by being one of them and just leveling the playing field. Bob Smart: Indeed. Paul Casey: On the flip side, leaders have to be aware of their weaknesses. So what is one of your favorite quote, unquote "ways" to sabotage yourself? Bob Smart: I love how you put that. And I can sabotage myself in a variety of ways, but one of the ones that I've had to get a handle on, is overthinking, and over-planning, and over analysis. Having a research background as such, I am real happy to try to overcomplicate something. When in fact what I've learned from that over time, is that a much more timely decision while maybe not the perfect decision, is probably a better decision. Paul Casey: Yeah. That reminds me of Colin Powell, the battlefield, if he gets 80% of the information it gets to go forward. Bob Smart: Yeah. Paul Casey: You'll never get 100%. Bob Smart: Exactly. And the cost, the cost of the organization and the person, to get that other little bit, isn't worth it. Paul Casey: Right. Right. It's minuscule. So I coach a lot of over thinkers. Bob Smart: Yeah. Paul Casey: I think we should start over thinkers anonymous group here in the Tri-Cities. What would you you say to an over thinker to try to help them snap out of it and yet still be who they are? Bob Smart: Yeah. That's tough. I mean, because you've got to understand the small game, and you've got to listen, and you've got to really think about what people want. So I'll start a lot of conversations with, "Do you want me just to listen? Do you want to work on a plan? Paul Casey: That's good. Bob Smart: Or do we want to gather more data?" And such. And a lot of times, it's just, Bob, I just want you to listen. And what I try to find, is when I start breaking out pages of spreadsheets and pivot tables, I normally try to have an intervention. Paul Casey: You just lost me so. Bob Smart: Well. Paul Casey: What's a pivot table? Bob Smart: It's something really cool, but it's probably just to me at [inaudible 00:10:24] Paul Casey: Down in the weeds, right? Bob Smart: Yeah. Paul Casey: Just down in the weeds. No, that it's a great marriage principle as well of, do you want me to still listen or do you want me to help solve the problem? Bob Smart: Yeah. Paul Casey: Because if you can get ahead of that, you're going to get ahead of the conflict that comes with, just listen, or I need you to help me come up with a solution, stop staring at me. Either way it sets the context for the conversation. Well, really do we achieve our highest potential by ourselves? So Bob, who keeps you accountable and energized, although you can feel the energy from Bob, can't you listeners?. But who keeps you accountable to getting your professional and personal goals accomplished? Bob Smart: One of the things I've done over the years and more recently than ever, is sharing with people, asking for feedback, and doing that in a genuine way. And telling folks, "Hey, when you see me start to do this, would you let me know?" Kind of the thing. And it can be a really difficult thing because you're setting down that mask and that shield and such to get to that point. So that's really helped me along. And what I have found is being a pretty approachable person. Many people, [inaudible 00:11:44]. Paul Casey: That's a blessing. Bob Smart: It's all blessing for sure. Paul Casey: Why don't more people especially leaders, ask for feedback? What's your gut on that? Bob Smart: I think ultimately, it's got to have a root cause down in fear. And I mean, people are stretched to their limit and we're all trying to figure out who we are, and how we can do these kinds of complex jobs like you talked about. And sometimes that feedback, especially unvarnished feedback, it can kind of hurt. And we need to be able to talk about that. And I think that's a start with valuing that feedback. Paul Casey: That is so good. Yeah. I think there is that fear. There a little bit of pride, maybe as well, like, oh, I think I'm doing the right thing here and now you're telling me I'm not." Bob Smart: Right. Paul Casey: And I don't know if I like that. Bob Smart: Well, you're pretty invested in these things. Paul Casey: That's a good word. Invested. Yeah. Bob Smart: All of a sudden it's like, wow, I'm getting some feedback that maybe this isn't the right course. In which genuine feedback and those kinds of genuine relationships and a shared sense of where we're going, I think is pretty powerful. But it's tough. Paul Casey: It is. Bob Smart: Yeah. Paul Casey: It is. And what a vulnerable question, when you see me doing this, would you bring that up? I mean, that just shows you're working on something. Bob Smart: Yeah. Paul Casey: And you really want to get better. Anybody that would say that question wants to get better. And it just makes it easier for then people around to go, "There it is again." And then you can chuckle maybe even. And it sort of puts a little levity to that issue of like, I interrupted again, or I'm talking too much, or whatever that thing is. Well, replenishment of energy keeps a leader at the top of their game. So Bob, principal's work is never done. Right? You could work seven days a week and the to-do-list is still going to be there. So what do you do to manage stress? Bob Smart: So my wife and I, we walk Howard Amon every day. Paul Casey: Really. Every day? Bob Smart: Snow, wind, slit, whatever. We walk it every single day. And if you know of Howard Amon Park, there's a red bench up at the top, and it's got a neat history to that bench. And we sit on that bench every day. And we don't finish the day until we go out. And sometimes that's eight o'clock at night with flashlights, or if I'm feeling particularly goofy, I wear those things on my head and those kinds of things. So we do that. That helps a lot. I also, I try to laugh a lot. And if you can't find humor in a school, you're not searching. Paul Casey: I've got a comedian buddy who started a Facebook group. You can all look it up. It's called Work Happy. And it's all the different ways, people in this group all are coming up with funny things to bring levity to work. Because we default to the negativity due to the stress of our job. So you've got to mix in laughter. And it is a great stress reliever. It's one of the best, I think emotional wellness habits that you can do. Bob Smart: You're right. You're so right. Paul Casey: And where is that bench by the way? So you've got the pool launch there at Lee. Bob Smart: Okay. Paul Casey: Where's is it compared to that? Bob Smart: Well, if you keep going North and you go up, there's an old building there. And you go up onto the dyke there, it's right at the top. Paul Casey: Okay. Bob Smart: You can't miss it. Paul Casey: Okay. Bob Smart: So here's the real secret Paul. Paul Casey: All right. Bob Smart: You got to look on the back of it, because there's a neat little plaque there. And I'll leave the rest to you. Paul Casey: Yeah. We'll just make that a little tease for the listeners. Bob Smart: Yeah. And so if you see a couple there say idle, because that's probably my wife and I. Paul Casey: I love it. And that's quite the commitment to say, you're going to do it every day, whether that's early or that's late. Bob Smart: That's right. Paul Casey: So you're getting exercise out of that, you're getting good conversation with your wife. Bob Smart: Exactly. Paul Casey: And both of those distress you. Bob Smart: And laughter. Paul Casey: And laughter. Well, before we head to our next question on people development, a shout out to our sponsor. Paul Casey: Located in the Parkway, you'll find motivation, new friends and your new coworking space at Fuse. Whether you're a student, just starting out, or a seasoned professional, come discover all the reasons to love coworking at Fuse. Paul Casey: Come co-work at Fuse for free on Fridays, in February. Enjoy free coffee, or tea, WiFi, printing, conference rooms, and more, and bring a friend. Fuse is where individuals and small teams come together in a thoughtfully designed, resource, rich environment, to get work done and grow their ideas. Paul Casey: Comprised of professionals from varying disciplines and backgrounds, Fuse is built for hardworking, fun-loving humans. Learn more about us at fusespc.com, or stop by 723 the Parkway in Richland, Washington. Paul Casey: Well Bob hiring in people development is crucial for leadership. If you could clone the ideal employee, whether that's a teacher, or support staff, anybody for your organization, what traits would that person have? Bob Smart: I think a person needs to be flexible. I mean, we've gone through a year of huge change, second order change. And I think that people that are much more nimble, people that are flexible, are going to be all right, but it's tough. And the second part, would be someone with a fierce customer service, whether that's in education or business I think is critical, an effective leader. And then I think the thing that is the game-changer, that last 5%, is somebody that's truly empathetic. Somebody that can truly empathize with stakeholder groups, people you work with, clientele, customers. Paul Casey: You used the word fierce before customer service. Why did you choose that word specifically? Bob Smart: I think that word is critical in the sense that, if you don't have a commitment to your next in line customer, and you're not absolutely committed to that, I think one, you lose genuineness and I also think that you're not in a service role. Paul Casey: Yeah. I had a feeling you were going to say that word service. That servant leader mentality, is gone when you get myopic. Just about me and my world, instead of the customer, the constituent that we're looking to serve. Bob Smart: Or transactional. Paul Casey: Oh yeah. Transactional. Bob Smart: Yeah. I mean, I think it's important to really have that commitment. Because once you have that commitment, more positive things from that relationship are going to come out it. Paul Casey: And it can become transformational, not just transactional, which educators are in a transformational business. You mentioned empathy as well. What does empathy sound like? What does it look like when you're... Interviewing is a tough deal, right? How do you listen for whether this person is going to be empathetic? Bob Smart: Well, I think some of it comes across as non-verbal inside those kinds of conversations. So what we'll do oftentimes, is we'll talk about scenarios. So here's the scenario that we oftentimes engage in. And then based on that response, that gives us a little bit of insight, whether or not you've got that empathetic response. Because in our business, we're in a highly, emotionally driven business. And oftentimes, we have to deescalate situations. And we can do that through humor, through kindness, but also most importantly through understanding. Paul Casey: Yeah. And that is so true that in hiring, if you were to say, "Hey, Paul give me a set of interview questions." I probably give you half of them that are scenario based, because people can be ready to answer the, "What are your strengths and weaknesses," questions. They're ready for a whole bunch of those, but they're not ready for the scenario ones. That's where the true person comes out. So I've had emerging leaders tell me they want to grow in thinking strategically. And they're like, "How I do that?" So what tips would you give on how to look at the big picture for greater longterm impact? Bob Smart: I would recommend that you study Red Tail Hawks. And that's kind of an odd response. But when you think about it, as a kid I grew up watching these red tail Hawk sit on top of these peepee apples. And then later on I found they've actually got two visions. One is on the horizon so they know when to pull up. And the other one is very focused and almost using a set of binoculars. So kind of a short-term in there, but having that eye for that horizon to get to whatever is going to happen. Paul Casey: The Red-Tail Hawk. Bob Smart: Yeah. Paul Casey: What an illustrative example of that. So it's looking long-term like you said the horizon, and then there's sort of the micro level. What are the small acts of leadership if done daily, can make a positive difference in the lives of teams? Bob Smart: I think being present, just being there, and talking to people, being seen, being visible. If you ask our kindergartners what I do, they say I boss cars. Because they see me out there in the parking lot, but we engage an awful lot of business in the parking lot, talking to parents, talking to kids, welcoming kids, especially during uncertain times. And... Paul Casey: Because you could delegate that, right? Bob Smart: Indeed. Paul Casey: You could say, "I don't want to be in that parking lot. The weather's crummy again today." But you choose to do that. Bob Smart: That's right. I choose to do that. And I think that's also part of my role is tone at the top. And demonstrating that welcoming, that assistance, that service, same thing at recess for our folks as well. Paul Casey: Tone at the top Tri-City influence listeners. Bob, flush that out a little bit more. Bob Smart: Well, I can espouse a variety of things. Paul Casey: Sure. Bob Smart: I can say, "Hey, it's really important for us to be outside, it's really important for us to greet people, it's really important for us to insert." But if I demonstrate that, that's so much more powerful. Meeting kids at the doorway, "How are you doing?" Especially now. Kids are scared, parents are scared. And having that opportunity. Also, when the principal is out in front of the building, as you well know, it is a certain reassurance. Paul Casey: Confidence builder. Bob Smart: Yeah. Plus we get to have a two minute conversation and if we scheduled a meeting, it would have been 30, 45 minutes. Paul Casey: So [crosstalk 00:23:29]. Are you saying it's an exit strategy for the long-winded people? Bob Smart: No, I wouldn't say that. Paul Casey: No, it's a lot of mini conversations... Bob Smart: It is. Paul Casey: ... That cumulatively turn out to be a culture. Bob Smart: Yeah. Paul Casey: And so you said, especially in these times. So let me take a quick side jont here by saying, what else is important in these uncertain times for leaders to do? You said to welcome them, be visible during this time. Any other strategies you're employing to try to help people deescalate some of these emotions? Bob Smart: Part of it is it's going to get better. And if you're not an optimist and looking forward with this, people are looking to leadership to, is it going to be okay? And it's going to be okay. We're going to get through this. We always do. And I think at some point Paul, it's ultimately love. It's really helping reassure folks and take care of people, that during really, really tough times. And in my line of work in schools, schools have a very important role in getting whatever stases and calm. Paul Casey: So as we try to balance people, because you're a people person with administrative tasks, you probably have to utilize some other people and who are stronger, where you might be a little weaker. So do you use your office staff, your administrative professionals to help you with that? Bob Smart: Well, we always have more work than we can possibly do. Paul Casey: Sure. Bob Smart: And I have to watch where I put what limited time I've got. Paul Casey: Yeah. Bob Smart: And I've got to be pretty focused on that. And I think you gave me an idea a long time ago. I still have it on my phone even. Paul Casey: No way. Bob Smart: Who can do this work? And every time... I don't make a lot of phone calls anymore, but I think about that. Because oftentimes that's a growth opportunity for somebody else that can do it. And then I can put whatever energies I have, into whatever I'm doing, whatever mischief I'm creating. Paul Casey: Yeah. Sometimes leaders have to be at the 30,000 foot level, sometimes at 15,000 feet. And today I think all of our listeners have got from you, you've got to be on the tarmac once in a while. Bob Smart: I think you're right. Yeah. I think that's true. Paul Casey: Well, some of our TCI listeners asked you, what two to three books or resources they must read, in order to grow their leadership skills. Where would you point them? Bob Smart: I would start off with Ron Heifetz's book, Leadership Without Easy Answers. And so that's from the Kennedy School of Government. And that was written a number of years ago, but he really sets up the arguments for a leader to understand what is happening on the dance floor below. Paul Casey: Yes. Bob Smart: And then the differentiating between a technical response and something else. Paul Casey: Adaptive. Right? Bob Smart: Exactly. Paul Casey: Is that the other one? Yeah. Bob Smart: Yeah. Paul Casey: I love that one. Bob Smart: So I just think, it is so powerful. It is really, really helped me think about my role as a leader. Paul Casey: Yeah. That's a good one. I use that, get up in the balcony and look on the dance floor. Bob Smart: That's right. Paul Casey: All the time I'd probably need to quote him, because I've totally stolen that. What's another resource that you'd point people to? Bob Smart: I like Drive by Daniel Pink and understanding that really at the end of the day, people are looking at self-direction. I think effective leaders create opportunities for folks to direct their work. And I think that's a powerful outcome. And I think that goes all the way back to what we're talking about, as far as if you care about people and helping them reach their goals. So that's a powerful work I like. The other one, is... And I think about it more often in the last year to 18 months, is Richard Swenson's work on Margin. Paul Casey: Yes. Bob Smart: I love that. Paul Casey: Yes. Bob Smart: And it's such an easy equation, but extremely difficult to do. Resources minus load equals margin. Paul Casey: Yes. Bob Smart: And what I find with leaders, is that we can operate in negative margin for a while and you would never redline your car. The engine's going to blow up. Well, not altogether different than that. So I think having conversations about margin, is really important in a longterm look at leadership. Paul Casey: Boy, you're the only other person I think that has mentioned that book... Bob Smart: Really? Paul Casey: ... In my life. Yes. I read it years ago in an administrative conference in Seaside, Oregon. I still remember when he came to speak and yeah, the whole load minus limits equals margin and you can't go into negative margin. Bob Smart: Yeah. Paul Casey: But our bodies were not meant to stay in overdrive for too long. He's got some good stuff on nutrition in there. This is years and years ago. But all the different ways that we need to build more white space into our day, to absorb the unexpected. I remember that phrase. Bob Smart: All those curves are the same. You can put all those curves together, whether it's nutrition or whether it's health, they all say the same thing. And my area of research is the principalship and rapid promotion and what happens. And the concern I have, is that the attrition rate for school principals is quite high, same as teachers. And it's alarming. And I think part of the answer has to do with having more honest conversations about margin. Paul Casey: So good. Well, finally Bob, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence? Bob Smart: We talked a little bit about this before. I would still make a list, but I'd be willing to chuck it in the first hour and be okay with that. Paul Casey: Oh no. You're giving me convulsions. Bob Smart: This is probably an overused cliche, but listen, learn and lead. I just think that's powerful. And I think it's okay to take some time to understand something, to really be in a position to where you can lead. And then finally, I think don't take yourself seriously. And I crack myself up all the time with the goofy things I do and that's okay. Paul Casey: Listen to learn to lead the three L's. Don't take yourself too seriously. These are great takeaways. Bob, how can our listeners best connect with you? Bob Smart: Well, I'm in the land of The Dragons at Southgate Elementary and where every day is the dragonrific day and pretty easy to get ahold of. And so... Paul Casey: Thank you so much for all you do to make Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. This past year have gotten certified in the EIQ, which is the Emotional Intelligence Quotient assessment. And so it assesses you in three areas, self-recognition, social recognition, self-management and social management. So for 60 bucks, you could take this assessment. Paul Casey: I'd be happy to debrief it with you. You can do a retreat for your team on it and to do a group debrief, so that the entire organization, or your entire leadership team, can raise the emotional intelligence level, which is one of the best leadership pursuits you could have for your professional development this year. Paul Casey: Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Bob Smart from Southgate Elementary, land of The Dragons, for being here today on Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. And we want to thank our TCI sponsor and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible, so we can collaborate to inspire leaders in our community. Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road, to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. Milton Berle said, "If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door." Till next time KGF, Keep Growing Forward. Speaker 2: Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders, by providing practical tools and strategies, that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. Speaker 2: If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Speaker 2: Paul would also like to help you restore your sanity to your crazy schedule and getting your priorities done every day, by offering you his free control mind calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message 272000 and type the word grow. Paul Casey: Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies

During this episode, Ellen Bernstein-Ellis, Co-Director of the Aphasia Treatment Program at Cal State East Bay in the Department of Speech, Language and Hearing Sciences, talks with Bob Williams and Tauna Szymanski from CommunicationFIRST. Guest Bios Bob Williams, Policy Director of CommunicationFIRST, helped to co-found the organization in 2019, after retiring from a distinguished four-decade career in federal and state government and the nonprofit sector, most recently as Director of the US Independent Living Administration at the US Department of Health and Human Services. He is a nationally recognized leader on policy issues relating to supporting people with the most significant disabilities to live, work, and thrive in their own homes and communities. For over 60 years, Mr. Williams has relied on an array of augmentative and alternative communication (AAC) strategies, including a series of speech generating devices over the past three decades. He lives with his wife in Washington, DC, where they enjoy visits with the grandkids, walking along the riverfront, Netflix binges, and all things Springsteen. Tauna Szymanski became the Executive Director and Legal Director of CommunicationFIRST in 2019. Previously, she spent twenty years working on climate change law and policy, including 13 years at an international law firm in London and Washington, DC, where she volunteered and represented clients pro bono in disability rights and inclusive education matters. Ms. Szymanski has graduate degrees in law and public policy. She grew up around the world as the child of US Foreign Service Officers and is multiply disabled.   In today’s episode you will: Learn about CommunicationFIRST’s efforts to advocate for policy reform in order to protect and advance the rights of individuals with speech-related disabilities Hear the story behind the June 2020 ruling to protect the rights of individuals with communication disability to have access to their communication support partner in the hospital, even during Covid Find out the benefits to filling out the Communication Tool Kit before a person with aphasia enters a hospital Learn about using the Hospital Visitation checklist offered by CommunicationFIRST Find out why we talk about Bruce Springsteen   Edited show notes:  Greetings to our Podcast listeners, This is Ellen Bernstein-Ellis, your host today, and you’re listening to an updated version of episode 68 with CommunicationFIRST. Let me share what happened to the original podcast because there's a valuable lesson in this story. Bob Williams, one of the guests that you’ll be meeting shortly, uses an assistive device to speak. He is indeed an eloquent and powerful speaker, as you will soon hear.  Bob spends considerable time preparing for interviews by prerecording content on his device since real time responses can be time consuming. However, as a matter of principle, Bob always opens his presentations by typing in real time in order to educate the public by providing some insight into the fuller experience of being an AAC user. The remainder of his interview responses are played at a more typical speaking rate. Unfortunately, because I didn't provide explicit instructions to our podcast producer, Bob’s response in that section of the podcast was edited from  four and a half minutes to 30 seconds to eliminate the audio lag. I failed to catch this unexpected revision in the final copy before it was posted.  I want to thank Bob, and Tauna, our other guest, for bringing this to our attention so we could redo the episode and restore his original response as it was delivered. I sincerely offer my apologies and appreciate their gracious understanding as we worked together to resolve this issue. Thank you too to our podcast producer for quickly responding to our concerns. To our listeners, Bob’s first response is a small but important window into the effort it takes to be an AAC user and also how to be a respectful listener and effective communication partner.  I found Bob and Tauna's interview profoundly impactful. They are passionate, expert advocates, as their mission states,  in advancing the rights, autonomy, opportunity, and dignity of people with speech-related communication disabilities and conditions. Be sure to check out the CommunicationFIRST website at www.communicationfirst.org Interviewer: Ellen Bernstein-Ellis Welcome to both of you today. Thank you for being here Bob, do you want to add anything to your impressive bio? What brought you to CommunicationFIRST?   I want to explain to our listeners that for this response, you're going to respond in real time, which means the listener is going to hear some typing as you compose your response. Thank you, Bob. Bob Williams  Thank you. Over 50 years ago, my parents, brothers and sisters, and I started to figure out ways I could express myself and that is why we can have this conversation. CommunicationFIRST is committed to making certain that all children and adults, and older Americans with disabilities that need ACC get that same chance. Bob, you and I spoke before the interview of how important it was to actually demonstrate to show how laborious and effortful it is for people with communication disabilities to communicate effectively, and to how important is for the partner to be patient and develop good listening skills. And you're actually the one who pointed out the corollary with individuals with aphasia, who may also need the partner to give them more time and have more patience so they can participate fully in the conversation. So thank you for sharing that and making sure that lesson is out there today.  I'd like to share my first lesson about being a good communication partner for someone using AAC, because I set up our tech meeting, and learned the hard way that the password was actually a barrier to you joining our meeting. By the time we figured out the problem, there just wasn't time for you to participate because you had another Zoom meeting you had to attend. And that one was at the White House, so that meeting won out. It left me totally impressed, of course. I decided this was a good lesson to share with our listeners. I've learned a lot in preparing and appreciate this honor of working with you for this interview. Thank you. Bob, how do you get ready for something like this that involves prepared and live responses? Bob Williams  I prepare most of what I am going to say in advance. Having worked with members of Congress, a cabinet secretary, and others who place a high value in brevity, has really developed my skills. To do this, I cut and paste, and repurpose as much as what I can, but it is time intensive. For the last 30 years, I have composed everything on my computer and transferred it to my speech generating device, which has advantages and downsides. Now, I am starting to experiment with the hybrid approach. You heard what I spelled out on my device. And what you are hearing now is the read aloud feature which is included in Microsoft Word. That voice quality is better and it cuts out the transferring and other hassles. Once I get the routine down, I am confident it will improve things. Responding to things in real time is never easy. It is just something you deal with as best you can. Bob, before we started recording, you explained that there will be some pauses between our questions because you have to physically reposition the cursor to read your next response. I just want to give the listener a heads up that they may have to wait a moment. Getting back to what you just said, Bob, what are the implications of what you shared for the people we work with who have aphasia? Bob Williams  If there is anything I want you to take away from what I say, it is this, the people you work with are making huge motoric and cognitive effort to express themselves and to be understood, regardless of whether they are using a speech generating device or not. The work they do is often Herculean. But many never realize that and view individuals with aphasia and others with significant expressive disabilities as less than, as having little to no human need, ability, or right to express themselves and to be heard. Because you and I know better, our most fundamental duty is to shatter this narrative. The idea that we can acquiesce and be complicit in letting people live incommunicado must become morally repugnant. Bob, that gave me the chills. It's so eloquent and so beautiful. Thank you. I think it leads us to the next question. It’s about the passion you and Tauna both share for communication access.  What are the mission and values of CommunicationFIRST? Bob Williams  We often get asked how we can expect to defend and expand on the civil rights and opportunities of people who seem to have nothing in common, except, of course, that we are voiceless and powerless. I was among those who was asked much the same question about what was then seen as this pipedream called the Americans with Disabilities Act. It is true we are diverse demographically, in terms of the disabilities and conditions we have, when and how we acquired them, how we communicate and a host of factors.  But here is what unites us. Like all people, we have the same intrinsic human need. The same human capacity and the same inalienable human and civil rights to effectively express ourselves and to be understood. Recognizing these truths about ourselves, that there is strength in our numbers, and recognizing we have rights and must demand them. These are the essential building blocks of CommunicationFIRST and the human and civil rights and liberties movement we are forging.  Thank you, Bob. My next question is for you, Tauna. Who do you serve? And what is your connection to aphasia? Tauna Szymanski  Thank you, Ellen, for the invitation to join your podcast today. This is actually our first podcast, so we're having a lot of fun with this. As Bob suggested, CommunicationFIRST is a very broad and diverse organization in terms of the group of people we seek to represent. So, the one commonality is that we will seek to advance the interests and the rights of anyone who cannot rely on speech to be understood, and that includes people who were born with a speech disability, and those who acquire a condition or disability later in life that makes speech communication difficult, and that includes people with aphasia. I'd like to hear a little more about the history of CommunicationFIRST. Tauna Szymanski  Sure. Well, as you noted earlier, we were only founded about 18 months ago. We publicly launched in October of 2019. It really came about over the prior few prior few years, as we realized that there were well established organizations. effective organizations, that represented people with the other two types of communication disabilities, vision and hearing disabilities, but strangely, not a single organization that really worked on the third type of communication disability, speech related disabilities. So there were, you know, there are some organizations for professionals and there's organizations that sort of worked on broader issues impacting folks with intellectual and developmental disabilities, some of whom have speech related disabilities, but no one who's really focused on the rights and interests of this large population, which is just equally as large as those other two communication disabilities. It came about because of the realization and the fact that the issues are just as intractable, if not more so, than for the other two populations of people with communication disabilities. I'm really grateful that you collaboratively started this organization. I didn't realize it was a new one, because you have already accomplished so much, just looking at your website. How are you seeking to achieve your mission?  Bob Williams  Well, it begins like everything else involving changing hearts and minds. Creating greater justice must begin in conversations like this one. Most of all, it takes creating the opportunity, spaces, and support for more of us who need AAC to get to know each other. And to recognize that we share not just the same kind of challenges, prejudice, and discrimination in common, but that the civil rights, accommodations, and support also are largely the same. And we share a common responsibility to each other to bring such changes about. Thank you. You are an eloquent speaker. Can you explain why CommunicationFIRST views this as right as a civil rights challenge?  Bob Williams  The National Aphasia Association 2020 survey on public awareness surveyed 1001 persons asking if having a speech disability is a sign that someone has an intellectual disability. Fortunately, 58% of the respondents said they either strongly or somewhat disagreed that is a true statement. But 42% said they either strongly or somewhat agreed with the statement. You and I know there is nothing soft or benign about the bigotry of low expectations. Or of social isolation, institutionalization and a lifetime incommunicado. We all have witnessed its absurd and horrid injustices. It is time to call it what it is. And to end it. This is why we do this work and need allies like all of you to join in. We have to work together. That is absolutely right. We're always stronger together. What is something big that you've learned during COVID, about healthcare ACC disparities? Tauna Szymanski  I can try to start out with this one. So as I mentioned, we launched only six months before COVID broke out. So, we had to very quickly pivot our plan or rollout for the first year to addressing what we quickly realized would be a very significant issue impacting our population-- one slice of which we knew would be these new no visitor policies in hospital and congregate care settings.  Especially because we know that virtually everyone in our population who has expressive communication disabilities needs some kind of human physical support in order to communicate. After everything shut down, and hospitals started implementing these no visitor policies, we issued toolkits about rights. Then we started getting calls about this issue and, in the course of doing that work, I personally have really come to appreciate and develop a much broader and deeper understanding of what communication really is and how much broader it is than just speech and hearing and vision.  Also how individualized communication and communication supports are. That's something that's actually been a personal blessing to me and in the work as we started with this organization. It's been an unexpected gift, really. Thank you for sharing that, Tauna. And Bob, do you want to speak to something you've learned during COVID and health and AAC disparities? Bob Williams  We have known about the deep disparities in health, education, and economic well-being that are part of the everyday lives of African Americans and other people of color with and without disabilities long before the pandemic and the vile white supremacy of the last several years. Because of the work of the National Black Association for Speech, Language and Hearing, as well as researchers and practitioners like Dr. Charles Ellis, and others, we are learning more. Not just that black, indigenous people of color and those who are multilingual are more likely to acquire more significant degrees of like aphasia, Parkinson, TBI and early onset disabilities like cerebral palsy, which require them to use an array of communication and other services and supports. But they also face disproportionate barriers and discrimination in accessing the services, AAC, and assistive technology required to each lead a decent life. Absolutely. And I'm admirer of Dr. Charles Ellis's work as well. So Bob, what needs to happen to get policymakers to understand and address both the systemic barriers as well as effective practices that research is identifying? And how can we help to elevate the need for action. Bob Williams  I mentioned Dr. Ellis, a leading expert on aphasia among black people and the director of the Communication Equity and Outcomes Laboratory at East Carolina University. Over the past several months, I have read his work as well as that of others doing similar research. And I think it's accurate to say we know and are learning more about what inequity in access to AAC and communication supports look like, as well as its devastating effects it has on people. We must now create urgency around what communication equity must look like and what we must do to retain it. In January, we prepared and were joined by 47 other organizations in submitting a Communication Equity Call to Action to provide the Biden administration. In it, we call on them to take concrete actions to create equal access to AAC, regardless of one's race, disability, age, language, or other status. Check it out on our website. And we will be glad to talk to anyone who wants to become more involved in our efforts. Thank you, thank you, for the work you're doing. That leads to the topic of what introduced me to CommunicationFIRST as an organization this summer in the first place. Could you please tell our listeners how you met Patient GS, that patient who's actually behind the June 2020 ruling to protect the rights of individuals with communication disability to have access to their communication support partner in a hospital setting, even during COVID?  Tauna Szymanski  As I mentioned earlier, in March of 2020, we issued a COVID-19 Communication Rights toolkit, which was designed to be a way or resource for folks who were going into the hospital due to COVID, who needed to ensure that they could access the communication support they needed in that environment, even if that communication support needed to be another human being.  So in other words, it was an accommodation request under disability rights laws for someone with a communication disability to be provided a reasonable modification to those no visitor policies and to other non-human communication supports like AAC and other communication accommodations that might be needed. That had come out in late March and I believe it was about two weeks later, I got a cold call on our main line from a woman in Connecticut whose mother had just been taken to the hospital less than 24 hours prior by ambulance. She was a 73 year old woman, GS were like initials to keep her identity confidential, but she's since come public. Her name is Joan Parsons, and she had acquired aphasia, I think 11 or 12 years prior due to an aneurysm and she was going to the hospital for non-COVID-related reasons. Her family, who had always accompanied her in the ambulance on necessary hospital visits and had remained with her in the hospital to ensure that she could communicate and understand, were prevented from doing so.  One thing led to another and we attempted to advocate and ultimately we needed to file an administrative complaint with the Office for Civil Rights at the US Department of Health and Human Services and something we did with Disability Rights Connecticut and a few other disability rights organizations. Can you can you share a little bit more about what the ruling entailed?  Tauna Szymanski  We filed that complaint in early May and very quickly the Office for Civil Rights (OCR) opened up what's called Early Case Resolution procedure, which all the parties have to agree to. The complaint was both against this individual hospital, which was Hartford Hospital in Connecticut, but also against the state of Connecticut for not having a statewide policy that reminded hospitals of this need to include exceptions in these no visitor policies for people with disabilities who needed in person support. It was sort of a two tiered complaint. Over the course of the next month or so, OCR, and Connecticut, and the hospital, and the disability groups, negotiated resolution to those complaints.  Ultimately, the resolution was an agreement for Patient GS, to be ensure that she could have that in person access. She was actually still hospitalized, after getting diagnosed with COVID, and was in the ICU for this entire time, six weeks. She was still in the hospital, I believe, that day we signed it. She ended up being released later, but we had resolved the practical issues earlier so she was able to be supported.  But the broader results of this complaint was that the state of Connecticut issued emergency regulations that essentially were a policy that laid out the law and said, yes, people with disabilities are entitled to have a support person present if needed, despite hospital visitor policies. It laid out a lot of the details about PPE and safety precautions that need to be taken. It wasn't a lawsuit, but rather, it was a decision that was endorsed by the Office for Civil Rights. It became a national precedent and an indication of what the federal government was saying that, yes, this is what needs to happen.  After that, we didn't have a whole lot of issues. We would just point people who were calling with these issues to that resolution. That was the backbone and that came out June 9 of 2020.   That had really widespread impact that summer. I saw the posting, that's how it came to my attention. We were cheering because for us, that's landmark, as protection for the people we work with and care about. They we're telling us stories of being so scared about going to the hospital and not being able to communicate.  Not only did you have that landmark ruling, but you also created this Hospital Visitation Framework document. Could you please speak to what the main criteria are for evaluating if a hospital policy is discriminatory? Let me share with the listeners one quote from the document: “Doctors have an ethical obligation to seek and obtain informed consent from every patient, something that cannot take place, if the patient does not have the tools and supports necessary to become informed, ask questions and make decisions and communicate consent. No visitor policies pose serious barriers to individuals with disabilities who require in person supports.” Could you explain a little bit more about the hospital visitation framework? Tauna Szymanski  Sure. Together with the other disability rights organizations that we worked with on this issue, we put together this document, the Hospital Evaluation Framework. It was put together to compile best practices really, to highlight some of the better state policies and hospital policies out there in terms of the detail.  One of the things that I never thought I would, a year and a half ago, be looking at were these nitty gritty sort of details like under what circumstances can a support person eat and use the restroom while in the hospital? This is really what a lot of these negotiations come down to is that kind of detail. States still are all over the map with their policies and some states don't even have policies on this issue. And hospitals are all over the map, especially in states that don't have policies. We thought it made sense. I was on a daily basis getting calls on these issues and coaching folks in various states here are the sorts of things that you need to be thinking about.  As we were negotiating with OCR and Connecticut about elements that are important to put in these policies, this (framework) was the compilation of a lot of these issues. And we wanted to make it helpful for states and hospitals to adopt comprehensive policies that ensure that patients with disabilities would be able to be supported and have equal access. Part of this document reminds folks of this ethical and legal obligation that healthcare providers have to ensure they're seeking and obtaining informed consent from their patients. So if a patient has a communication disability, they're still entitled to be provided with informed consent.  Part of becoming informed is being able to understand what is being presented in terms of treatment options and also being able to ask questions about those options. And then, of course, providing that consent. Much of what we've had to do in terms of advocating on this issue is reminding healthcare providers that you still have to do this, right? Just because that person doesn't have the communication tools right now, you have to provide those (tools) to ensure that they can have that opportunity. And in the case of aphasia, and with Patient GS, a lot of what we were advocating for was reminding (providers) that Patient GS has aphasia and she can understand a lot, but sometimes she needs help with rephrasing. The only person that can really help with that is someone who knows her and knows the background of how she understands and expresses things. And how she can be asked questions in a certain way to ensure that she is answering in a way that is going to lead to an agreement, or decision, or consent.  This Evaluation Framework document methodically goes through some of these elements that we found were really essential to have in some of these no visitor policies. Including, is there a requirement in the state policy for a hospital to follow the policy? Some of them suggested it was optional. Or, what kind of facilities does the Framework cover? Does it just include hospitals? Or, does it also include congregate care type facilities, long term care facilities, skilled nursing, etc.?  Some were very selective about the types of disabilities that they listed and yet you don't need to have a certain type of disability to qualify under the ADA for an accommodation. So it goes through some of that. What we also thought was helpful would be to footnote each of these with real examples from states, including the language that they've used in their policies, to address each of these points. You can see the variation in how some states have done this. That was, hopefully, a helpful resource. We've used it over time as we've worked in new states to encourage better policy adoption.  That’s a really big undertaking. And right before we started our interview, you mentioned that there's been some updates as of yesterday. Do you want to share?  Tauna Szymanski  Sure. This was specifically about hospitals. The Patient GS situation was really about hospital visitation. And we had been hearing increasingly from folks in nursing homes and institutions, for lack of a better term, and intermediate care facilities, assisted living facilities, skilled nursing facilities, about similar issues about people not being able to go into to visit and then to support. We always start by emphasizing that distinction between a visitor and a disability support person, because in a lot of these facilities, there is actually a legal right to visitation. But more strongly, under disability rights laws, there's this separate and independent right to effective communication and certain disability related support. There was no real guidance about those rights in these other types of settings at the time, and so we, along with several other disability and aging groups, spent a good chunk of last summer pushing CMS, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, to issue guidance on those rights in those settings.  And finally, in September of last year, we got some guidance about nursing home visitation. Then in January of 2021, we got guidance about visitation on intermediate care facilities, and psychiatric residential treatment facilities. Yesterday, just an hour after we presented about the nursing home and ICF visitation, HHS and CMS actually issued an update on the nursing home guidance on visitation and made it stronger, talking about the role of vaccinations and that sort of thing. So essentially, all of these other guidance documents include that additional language about reminding those who run those facilities that that if a patient with a disability requires an outside support person to access the services and healthcare options that are provided in those settings, they're entitled to do so regardless of those no visitor policies. Some of the documentation and legal aspects can be overwhelming for families to navigate. That's why you put in place this COVID-19 Communication Rights Toolkit, which is very accessible. I urge all our listeners to share the link with families which we'll have in the show notes Could you explain what it is?  Tauna Szymanski  This was put together in March very, very quickly. It tries to simply lay out what those communication rights are in health care settings. Specifically, it includes a section about how you protect those rights and assert them. It includes links to the three different laws, which are the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act, and Section 1557 of the Affordable Care Act. For advocates and lawyers in health care, hospitals, and whatever, they can click on the links to see the actual laws if they want to read them. And then it includes additional resources, like the Evaluation Framework. We included various memos and links to the guidance for state policies that we've compiled on our website. At the very back, there is something that you can actually print out designed to be a form that you present to the hospital when you're being admitted which says: here's my name, here's my emergency contact, here's the support I need to communicate. It could be this person, it could be this AAC device, I need wait time, please be patient, etc. It cites the law and asks people to put this document on my chart and you can keep a (copy of the) document. It’s designed to be used before you need to go to the hospital. We’ve heard that folks are actually doing it that way. Lots of folks have this filled out just in case they have to go to the hospital at some point. We have it translated in both Spanish and Chinese.   Maybe one of the tips for introducing this to a family, if a client has an upcoming surgery, is to refer them to this Communication Rights Toolkit, and encourage them to print out the Communication Rights form, right? Do you have any specific stories you want to share about its use at a hospital that's come back to your organization? Tauna Szymanski  I haven't heard long detailed stories about its use. But I have seen on many occasions, on Facebook, Twitter and in emails, that folks have brought this information to the hospital and have used it successfully. So that's been very gratifying. I was truly inspired and grateful for the work that your small organization has been able to accomplish during this time when so many families have spoken about feelings of loss and fear about not being able to advocate for their loved one in a situation that is already very, very scary. And it's just been compelling to see the difference that this organization has made.  I want to express my appreciation to Bob and to you, Tauna, for what you've accomplished. Thank you so much. And I hope our listeners will look at the links in the show notes to check out the Communication Toolkit and the Hospital Framework.  Also, in the show notes, Bob, you showed me yesterday that, as of March 3, you posted a video on the history of communication rights. I only had a chance to start watching it and I can hardly wait to finish it. I urge everybody to check out that video. It is going to be an amazing tool for sharing the importance and value of the history of bringing communication rights to people. Thank you for that. As we wrap this up, when we finally did get to have a tech check after creating a second meeting without the password, we started talking about Springsteen because I saw that noted in your bio, and I couldn't resist.  You liking Springsteen makes a lot of sense to me, because at heart, he is really a storyteller. It seems to me, that you too, are very much a storyteller and you understand deeply the value of being able to tell your story. I asked if you had a favorite Springsteen song that you'd like to share?  Bob Williams  As I told you before, this is the impossible question to answer. I first heard Bruce in 1972. I believe he was the warm up act for Richie Haven. But I was too focused on the redhead college student with me to give him any notice. Soon after, some friends turned me on to the stuff he did on albums, like Greetings from Asbury Park, and The Wild, the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle. So like every old friend, we have been through and continue to go through a lot together. In trying to make sense of this world, each in our own way, trying not to be blinded by the light. And to find some ways to make things more right. So you're telling me there is no one song? Bob Williams  No, but here are a few. I love ‘Jungleland’ for its artistry. As the man wails, it is a ballet being fought out in the alley. Clarence’s saxophone solo at the end always takes me places where I crave to be. ‘Racing in the Streets’ also calls out to me. It reminds me of my dad. His work ethic, his drive. The way he lived his life and expected us to do the same.  But if I really need my fix from the Boss, I listen to the ‘Ghost of Tom Joad’ and ‘Youngstown’. The injustices Bruce challenges in many of his songs are as real, if not deeper, today than ever. But so are the yearnings they inspire. That is the fix I keep going back for. Of course, I can belt out ‘Thunder Road’ and ‘Rosalita’, just about anything he sings, with the best of them. Absolutely ranks you as a top fan. I agree with you deeply. So thank you for sharing that answer.  I want to thank both of you for sharing your expertise today with our Aphasia Access members. I've learned a lot. And I'm hoping that we're able to get the good work that your organization is doing out to a lot more people. So thank you so much. References and Resources CommunicationFIRST COVID-19 Guidance https://communicationfirst.org/covid-19/covid-19-guidance/ https://secureservercdn.net/166.62.108.22/izh.66f.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/FINAL-Disability-Org-Guidance-on-COVID-19-Hospital-Visitation-Policies-updated-100720.pdf Americans with Disabilities Act featuring Bob Williams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLg533x8vKE&feature=youtu.be CommunicationFIRST Covid-19 Communication Rights Toolkit https://communicationfirst.org/covid-19/

Fabian Geyrhalter:Welcome to the show, Eddie.Eddie Hartman:Thank you so much.Fabian Geyrhalter:Well, thrilled to have you here. I've been a customer of LegalZoom for, I don't know, I believe it must be 15 years or so by now, creating DBAs, and trademarks, and all of that good stuff one has to deal with as an entrepreneur. You created LegalZoom 20 years ago with two friends, as a digital tech company that helps its customers create legal documents without necessarily having to hire a lawyer. And you built it into the best known legal brand in the United States. Last year, one in four LLCs in California were started through LegalZoom. It might have been more by now. And you have over four million customers. More than half of all Americans know the brand. How did it start? Take us back 20 years ago, you and two friends, how did you come up with this quite revolutionary idea that point in time?Eddie Hartman:What a great question. And I have to say, when we began, we had no idea that we would be founding what I'm told is the oldest unicorn. Did you know that?Fabian Geyrhalter:Yes, I actually heard that. I heard that too. It's quite impressive.Eddie Hartman:Aileen Lee at Cowboy Ventures coined the term unicorn, at the time of course it didn't exist. But can you imagine? LegalZoom is now the oldest unicorn. When we began it, we thought it might top out at 16 million. That was our dream. You know maybe, maybe. My two friends were both lawyers and they had great jobs at great law firms. And Brian Lee, in particular, who went on to found the Honest Company with Jessica Alba and ShoeDazzle with Kim Kardashian, he said, "You know, I didn't leave my job at a very good law firm, Skadden Arps, to become an employee of a small company that I started. I love to become the founder of a large company. But for us, large was maybe 16 million at max. Brian used to show us with his hand, where he thought maybe one day, the stack of outgoing LLC packages might reach. Because this was the most important thing to us, and I think any entrepreneur can relate. The big sale, the big purchase, the biggest ticket item that we sold was a gold incorporation or LLC package.             And it went in a special FedEx box, a flattish box, not a big carton, but a box that maybe was an inch and a half, two inches high. And we would ship them out, they'd sit on the front desk, and we'd look at that stack of boxes, and it was the measure of our success. And Brian, once in the early days, put his hand on top of that box, and he said, "Eddie, someday, this stack is going to be up to here." And you know, by his chin. I want to let you know, we now have a separate dedicated facility-Eddie Hartman:Of course.Eddie Hartman:Just to handle those. It grew from a stack into sort of a back bay of the building, because we would have to have a truck come up and take all the packages. And finally, it outgrew that and we now own a separate facility just to handle all those packages. And it's been extraordinarily rewarding to see the growth, which really means the acceptance, how many people see value in what LegalZoom brings to their lives, how many people find that their opportunities are unlocked by what legalism gives them. We had a really great guy, Daniel Kent, came to work for us for a few years. He's now a Berkeley PhD. But at the time, he did a study and he found that LegalZoom had started more than one in six charities in the United States.Fabian Geyrhalter:Oh wow.Eddie Hartman:Yeah, you don't start a business thinking that, "Oh, we're also going to have an enormous charitable impact." But there we were looking at the numbers, one in six, more than one in six American charities were started. And my partner said to me, "You know, this is a great number. This is a really amazing thing. We should let people know this number." I said, "Yeah you know, that is great. But here's a bigger question that we'll never really be able to answer. How many of those charities never would have started if it weren't for an easy way to get a 501(c)(3), that is to say tax exempt designation?" How many charities are never started? Is maybe the better question. How many businesses are never started? How many families go unprotected, because the benefits the law are out of reach? And reach doesn't necessarily mean too expensive. It may simply be too complex or too time consuming.            We're in a democracy. The benefits of the law that's supposed to be our birthright, but if it's too cumbersome... Again, which might be inconvenient or complex, but it also might be too expensive, something we can't afford, inaccessible in one way or another. We are cheated in a way. We're cheated of our birthright. We're cheated of the basic promise that we're supposed to have as participants in a democracy, that we have equal protection, that we have equal access, that we have equal benefit. And so when I think about those charities that were never started, or those businesses that were never launched, or those families that are unprotected, I think this is a crisis. This is a plague. This is something that could be corrected. There needs to be more LegalZooms. LegalZoom is just one player. And even though we're very proud of what it's done, when you think about the latent legal market, the millions of unlaunched ships, that's honestly, what keeps me up at night.Fabian Geyrhalter:Well, a couple of questions about this. This was extremely interesting. On the LegalZoom site, the brand states, "We are not going to rest until everyone has access to legal care." And based on what you just said, it almost sounds like a not-for-profit organization's manifesto, right? Like a rallying cry. How does LegalZoom push how it's done? And do you also have a nonprofit arm as part of it? Or do you just organize in a way and run the business in a way where you feel like you want to empower as many as possible, and hence, there doesn't need to be a nonprofit part of it?Eddie Hartman:Well, I believe deeply, that the blood that pumps through a company's veins, is the profit that it generates. Without that, of course, you can't pay people. But more importantly, you can't innovate. You can't get the word out. I think, in fact, the mark of value... And in my new role, I'm now a partner at Simon-Kucher, and I'm very frankly honored and grateful for my role there. It's an amazing organization. But one of the things that we have as a mantra, if you think about it this way. If I asked you, "How do you measure value?" You might say, "Well, I think about what a thing is worth." Well, okay, sure. But how can you put a number on it? I would argue that the best way to measure value is to ask, "What would you pay for it?" And if you could stack up dollars or coins, whatever it might be, and measure that stack.             Just like Brian used to measure that stack of gold LLC packages. That's a measure of value right there. We don't have a yardstick, we can't measure it in gallons or something, miles. We need a different way to measure. And I would argue that the money that you exchange is a great proxy for value. So when we think about LegalZoom, it's a mission-driven company that makes a profit. It makes a profit because it delivers value. Without the profit, it would not be able to pursue its mission. That is how I see it. The test of LegalZoom as an organization, really any organization, is are you providing sufficient value that you can continue to provide value and expand the value you provide?Fabian Geyrhalter:Absolutely, absolutely. Love this. Listen, going back to the founder story, just for one more second there, because I'm sure everyone is asking themselves the same question. When you were eliminating the need for small businesses, in the very beginning, right? And I mean, continuously so. But in the beginning, to hire a lawyer, right? That was a tremendously disruptive thought. It was you literally fighting the good fight, so to speak. How was that uphill battle until you were legally ready to offer your services? And I'm almost sure that there must have been lawsuits by law firms or industry groups earlier on to try to stop you from what you were about to do, because it was obviously harming their trajectory.Eddie Hartman:I love this question. I wonder if you ever had a time of your life, probably in your mid 20s, when it felt like every weekend was taken up with a friend's wedding over the summer. It's the time of life when everyone's getting married all at once. And then when the weather's turning nice, you know, May, June, July, suddenly, every single weekend, you're going to a wedding. That was me for a period of time, except instead of weddings, I was going to depositions. [I was the most heavily deposed person. I've never encountered anyone that's been deposed as often as I have. And I think it stems from a misunderstanding. The misunderstanding is that LegalZoom somehow does not want people to speak to lawyers or hire lawyers, which is almost baffling to me at this point. LegalZoom has many lawyers, then it has as employees it works with. We work with a network of law firms.            We pass more... I would guess I don't know any numbers about this. But I would guess that we pass more people to consult with lawyers than any other single organization in the world. We love businesses hiring lawyers, and using lawyers appropriately. I think all we tried to do was say that there's some things where if you choose to, you don't need a lawyer. So when you form your LLC, you can use LegalZoom to get that done, if you choose, and a lawyer doesn't need to be involved, which may make it more affordable for you, or make it more in your control. Some people really like the feeling of power of control. I've done this for myself. However, I would say that LegalZoom really tries to make sure that anyone who starts a company or frankly, forms a will or anything else through Legal Zoom, then speaks with a lawyer. And in fact, we took advantage of something that was, I think, less well known, which is a prepaid legal plan. These were plans established in the 1970s by unions.             Unions wanted their members to have access to good legal counsel, but it's hard to afford. Especially, for a lot of people, very difficult to afford. So they created these special plans, which were approved by authorities in every state. And as a union member, you could buy into a prepaid plan and then have access to a lawyers counsel. LegalZoom followed in that model- So honestly, and the thing, I think, also you should know is that I am a lawyer, and I became a lawyer while at LegalZoom. I never went to law school though. I taught very briefly at Yale Law, and I taught briefly at Stanford Law. And I had to tell my class that it was my first time at a law school. I became a lawyer [inaudible 00:13:25] for the bar after doing an apprenticeship. So I never went to law school, but I did become a lawyer because I believe so deeply in the importance, and really the primacy of lawyers. I actually named my firstborn son, my sweet little boy, Darrow, after Clarence Darrow. The lawyer that famously gave up his high paying job for the railroads, and started fighting for the common man. I believe that lawyers are some of the most civic-minded, good hearted, and intelligent, and often brave people among us.            But unfortunately, I think the legal system that they find themselves employed by often betrays them. They have this idea that they're going to be able to fight for right and go to court and defend justice. And what they get instead is a mind numbing, soul crushing job, where they're required to, at the end of the day, measure up their worth in six minute increments. Because that's what a law firm lawyer does. They have to mark down their time in six minute increments and justify what they did. It's a [inaudible 00:14:39] system. So what did LegalZoom do in the early days? I think we stepped into a crazy imbalanced system, where most people felt that the benefits of the law were beyond their reach or too cumbersome, and hopefully, created an alternative where we still do try to connect people with lawyers, but perhaps in a healthier and more effective structure. I think that was the big change.Fabian Geyrhalter:I mean, it was extremely liberating. I mean, even for myself. Being an entrepreneur and having started my companies and going through LegalZoom, I mean, it's been... I don't know, how many interactions I had with LegalZoom over the years. And for me, I'm kind of the generation where I was born into it, right? When LegalZoom came out 20 years ago, that's about when I got really serious about doing the legal portion of my business. Before, I was just running a business. Let's talk a little bit more about lawyers. And what you just said about how lawyers are being seen and the reality of it. Influencer marketing is huge today, right? But it really has been for decades, just under different names. The idea of affiliating a brand with an influential person from within their segment has its benefits, and it has its risks, and you might know where I'm heading with this. It seems like you guys were living that story having celebrity lawyer, Robert Shapiro, as your co-founder, who...            For those of you who are not in LA, or maybe not even in the US. Robert Shapiro was infamous for successfully defending O.J. Simpson back in 1995. But he was a co-founder. How did this come about? And I think he already talked a little bit about a shift in how lawyers pursued their career. How did it come about and did it have the desired effect on the brand? And how did you guys all work together?Eddie Hartman:Well, I'll say two things; the first of which is anyone who... And I mean this in the best spirit. Anyone who has anything bad to say about Bob Shapiro is going to have to do a fist fight with me. I love that man. He is one of the most... I'd say in some ways, he's one of the kindest people in the world, and he's been through personal tragedy that people don't understand. And I won't belabor it, but his son, Brent, used to... He had, I should say, two sons. And his older son Brent was my employee, when he tragically died at age 23. And people, I think, they don't realize. Bob Shapiro has been through... In his long career, he has done so many things, so many things. Defend major, major lawsuits, major, major actions, huge clients, vast things settled, and yet... Of course, what he is best known for is a moment in the 90s.Fabian Geyrhalter:Yep.Eddie Hartman:Okay. I actually was off the grid when that was happening. I was living in Montana. I didn't catch the whole O.J. thing. Only I only heard about-Fabian Geyrhalter:Well timing.Eddie Hartman:I found out about it afterward. But I will say, of course, the notoriety of that case, and I think we can say notoriety here, made Bob famous. And his fame helped us in more than one way. Obviously, it brought attention to LegalZoom, which was great. I was once asked on a plane. You know, you're always asked on a plane, "What do you do?" And I explained, "Oh yes, I started this company." And she said, "Oh, what does the company do?" And I said, "Well, it helps you, you can use it to form a will or an incorporation or trademark or patent." And she said, "Oh. Wow, you must get a lot of competition from Robert Shapiro's company." [crosstalk 00:18:40] [inaudible 00:18:40]. She said, "Oh, no, I don't think so." Then I said, [crosstalk 00:18:48]. But the other thing that it brought us was, because of his fame... Bob had a lot of business experience that we lacked.             He had been involved with Wolfgang Puck, early in the day, who became so famous. The founder of Spago, and a chain of other restaurants. So Bob brought a lot of business acumen. And he had the business acumen because the O.J. Simpson case had propelled him to fame. That's definitely true, definitely true. But I would say the other thing about the relationship is that it brought us knowledge on so many different levels than just his just a celebrity. And I want to tell you one more fun fact. My dear partner, Brian Lee, was the one who brokered the introduction to Robert Shapiro. And at the time, he really was Robert Shapiro. He's this famous lawyer that we'd never met. His office is at the top of... If you liked the movie, Die Hard... Nakatomi Plaza, where the action takes place, his actual office was in that building where [inaudible 00:20:06]            And so we got to meet him, and it's very intimidating. A very huge office, beautiful. Barely looks up. We're doing our song and dance. He told us we had five minutes. We've taken much longer, and he's not really paying attention to us. And finally, he says, "You know, because of my fame, a lot of people come to me, and they've got this business idea and that business idea." And I'm thinking, "Okay, so the answer is no. Will this guy just hurry up and say no." But to my surprise, he doesn't say no, he says, "If this is such a good idea that I want to be part of this, I don't just want to be an investor. I don't just want to put my name on this. I want to be part of this." He literally meant something like chief of marketing. He wanted to be that involved. And I called my mom. I said, "Mom, you're never going to believe this. Robert Shapiro is joining LegalZoom." And she said, "My dentist?"Fabian Geyrhalter:That is hilarious.Eddie Hartman:Yeah. So [inaudible 00:21:18], people think about he's celebrity, celebrity, celebrity. And that's true, it was very helpful. But I think what was even more helpful was that we had this incredibly knowledgeable lawyer with great business skills, who was part of our team.Fabian Geyrhalter:That is a fantastic story. Thank you for sharing this. Absolutely, that's great. You're in the legal business, and in the business of trademarks. Well, not you, but LegalZoom. And this being a branding podcast, I have to ask this question.Eddie Hartman:Sure.Fabian Geyrhalter:LegalZoom, launched officially in 2001. So 10 years prior to Zoom. Does Zoom own their name to you to a certain degree? I know there was this time where that idea of Zoom was kind of an internet thing, but is it bizarre for you that 2020... Like all this time later, turned into a year where the word "Zoom" became the thing? And LegalZoom owned it first?Eddie Hartman:You know, it's such a funny question. So just a small question. The incorporation was created in 99.Fabian Geyrhalter:Yeah.Eddie Hartman:And we did a soft launch. We made our first sale in the last quarter of 2000. But yes, of course, our big launch to the public, 2001, very true. And for 10 years, if you said Zoom, you probably meant LegalZoom. A competitor of ours, to tweak us, had signs put up around his office that said, "We believe in legal grooming, not legal zooming." The word, Zoom, is a funny word. And for a long time, it was ours. And now, yes, you may have heard of this small company called Zoom. I do remember meeting them at a conference. Because lawyers were one of the early adopters of Zoom. And I walked up and I said... Hopefully they found it funny. I said, "I won't sue you." That they're Zoom, and we're LegalZoom.             But yeah, a friend recently posted to an entrepreneurial group that I'm part of, "Hey, can anyone connect me with Zoom?" And I was about to write back, "Sure," and then I realized [inaudible 00:23:41] blocked me.Fabian Geyrhalter:Yeah, I just thought it was interesting right? Because here, we're Zooming around all day, and I've been using Zoom for all the time. Listen, at some point, LegalZoom... And I just really realized this, prepping for our chat here. At some point, LegalZoom moved past business customers and started offering services really to anyone. So from wills and trusts to divorces, how does a brand known for entrepreneurship and business move its perception to become a bit more of a generalist? Or was a shift in brand story and marketing not even necessarily since he already had this huge amount of business customers who were just happy to start using your other services, hence spreading the word organically without even diluting your brand?Eddie Hartman:What a great question!Fabian Geyrhalter:It was a long one.Eddie Hartman:So the first product set that we launched was incorporations, LLCs, last will and testament, copyright... I want to say copyright and trademark were part of the first trough, but I'm actually not a 100% sure. We also considered restraining orders, but we understood after a while that that was a business that was better occupied by municipal and state authorities. We also had divorce early on, although we found that divorce is quite a difficult product to fulfill. However, that was the initial product set. So we-Fabian Geyrhalter:Interesting.Eddie Hartman:Yeah, we always had wills in there. Oh, you know, and trusts were in there as well, in the early... Oh, and living will. That's right, living will was there as part of the early batch. So for people who don't know, there's a medical power of attorney, living will, which is a document that, as the name implies, covers you when you're alive, but maybe incapacitated, versus a last will, which in the UK they will just refer to as a will and testament, which happens to cover you after you die. So two different documents. But I say this to say we found that there was so little crossover between product categories. A person who came to know us for an incorporation, would not have any inclination to use us for a will. A person who came to us for a will would not have a natural inclination to use us for a trademark, which is interesting if you got it.Fabian Geyrhalter:How interesting. Yeah. Eddie Hartman:We once did a program where we gave people $50, or later an opportunity to enter into a drawing to potentially go to a week long vacation to Hawaii, if they would refer us to a friend or family member. And we got very little uptake. And when I called around to some of these people to say, "Hey, you obviously love LegalZoom. You gave it incredibly high marks all around, but then you didn't refer us to anyone. Why is that?" I would get responses like this, "I don't know anyone else who is going through a divorce." "I don't know anyone else who's getting a trademark." And when you ask them, "Well, did you know that LegalZoom does all these other things?" They would respond, "Well, no, I really didn't." And so we will promote in the email itself, we would say, "Popular services from Legal Zoom." We created the idea of like, what are the top 10 services from LegalZoom? What are the most popular uses of LegalZoom? What are people using LegalZoom for?             And we would say, "Oh, you know..." Obviously, these were factual, but we would say, "Oh, number one is, setting up LLCs. And number two is..." let's say, "Registering a trademark." "And number three is filing for an uncontested divorce." Now, if people decided, upon seeing that list, "Hey, you know what? I have been thinking, I ought to divorce my wife. Now that I see [crosstalk 00:27:43] LegalZoom, let me go ahead and do it."Fabian Geyrhalter:What an impulse buy!Eddie Hartman:What an impulse buy, right? "Hey, I should get a patent." Hopefully, that didn't really motivate behavior, and yet it was a blockbuster move in terms of generating sales. So if you'd stopped to think about it, and said, "Why would you ever show people what the top products are?" If a person is going to get divorced, they're going to get divorced, if a person is going to declare bankruptcy or start a business or something. That's a big decision, they've already made it." Never underestimate the impact of assurance. The impact of, "Many people are also doing this." The impact of safety and numbers. And I think that leads you right to the brand question, because after all, what is brand? Brand is a promise. Brand is a question of reliability. A brand is almost always a promise about the future. In an unknown future, when you don't know what's coming next, the brand matters more.            If you're going to pop a pharmaceutical into your mouth, if you are going to take a pill, if you are going to sign up with an insurance company, if you are going to have someone do a legal service for you, you have no idea what the future reliability is going to be, and so the brand has to stand in. I mean, ask yourself, would you ever put a drug in your body from a source you've never heard of? Of course not. Certainly you wouldn't give it to your children. Why? Because brand matters so much. It's the future promise of something that you cannot guarantee today.Fabian Geyrhalter:Very, very well said. You and I both are mentors at The Founder Institute. Or you have been, and you're on and off. I found out because I read your bio and your Global 40 Mentor. And I'm a Global 100 Mentor, so I thought I was special until I met you. Now, I'm not anymore. Thank you for that. But when you talk to entrepreneurs about branding, what do you tell a startup? Like how important do you... So you're a partner at Simon-Kucher, which is a strategy and marketing consultancy. You have started and operated multiple companies with a total valuation in excess of, I don't know, $3 billion. Right? So you have seen it all when it comes to brands, but how do you advise startup founders and entrepreneurs? Like what do you tell them about the importance of branding to them at that point in time?Eddie Hartman:Well, for the more hard-nosed listener, I would point out that brand has a tangible value. Whether you're thinking about valuation, there's a concept goodwill, which is essentially brand equity, so it attributes to your enterprise value. Another way to look at it though, is we've run tests on buying the very same batch of Google keywords for a generic website that has a name, of course, and has a design scheme and everything. But with the brand no one's ever heard of, versus the LegalZoom brand... And I can tell you that the LegalZoom brand is much more effective in converting and generating revenue. So brand is very powerful and quantifiable, in terms of the impact that it gives you. You really need to take it quite seriously. But then, the next question is, what should your brand state? As I say, brand is a... I saw a great definition of brand when I was in business school at Wharton.             It said that, "Brand motivates irrational behavior." In other words, if a promise motivates rational behavior, then that's not brand. If I tell you that, "Well, this vehicle gets a certain number of miles per gallon, and that's why you should buy it." Or if I say, "This copper has a certain purity per kilo of weight." Those are statements, but they're not brand statements. That's literally a value statement that's merely attributable to an attribute of what's being sold. If I tell you on the other hand that, "Kids love Oreos." Okay, that's a promise that you can't tie to something rational. It's not a rational criteria. It's appealing to an irrational side. I mean, why do we love Oreos and hate Hydrox? Hydrox was first. You know that? Oreo was a copy of a Hydrox. I mean, okay, please don't sue me in saying so.             But certainly, if you look at them side by side in a store, you might be tempted to conclude, and I certainly would, that an Oreo is a copy of a Hydrox. But Oreo dominated the brand. They stand for something. They stand for comfort, they stand for snowy days with a glass of milk, and an Oreo cookie. And we all love them. But if you look at the list of ingredients, they're no different than a Hydrox.Fabian Geyrhalter:Interesting, yeah. They built the brand.Eddie Hartman:If you are buying from a rational basis, and the Hydrox were cheaper, you should surely reach for the Hydrox, but people don't. They read for the Oreo. And companies, not just in consumer, but in business-to-business, also understand that brand promise really means something. I think it's probably a bit more rational in a business context. There's the old saying, "No one ever got fired for going with IBM." [crosstalk 00:33:39]Fabian Geyrhalter:That changed.Eddie Hartman:Okay, this has changed. But what are we saying when we make statements like that? What we're saying is that the brand adds something to the value equation of a current purchase, because it makes a promise about the future, "This will be reliable. We are a organization that stands behind the offer that we're making." Brand should convey a penumbra, a halo effect, beyond the the specific product that you sell. It should augment and extend beyond. Selecting the words to use for brand, then becomes very important. And honestly, here's where you can use some fairly standard methodology. You can ask your customers or prospects, say Listen, "I want you to tell me of eight..." You come up with somewhere between eight and 12 attributes, and you say, "Listen, I want you to tell me of these eight to 12 attributes, which are the ones that are the most important to you? Rate them." And then say, "Okay, same set of attributes, how do we rate versus competitors?"            And then plot this on a grid and you'll see a pattern emerge. And the pattern will tell you, this is where your brand can reach and this is where your brand cannot reach. Where you are strong and the attribute matters, that's where your brand thrives. Where the attribute matters and you're not strong, those are areas that you have to avoid. And if you can find in that map a story, then that can be the through-line for your brand. Listen, LegalZoom is never going to be able to say something like, "We have lawyers that will grind themselves to the bone working around the clock, and our brand name is feared in courtrooms across America the way that a major law firm could." But what LegalZoom can say is, "Simplicity, ease of use, convenience." Right?Fabian Geyrhalter:You're going right into one of my final questions on every one of my shows. So now that we talk about brand boards, and what you just explained is really fantastic for anyone, not just entrepreneurs, right? I mean, even someone who's a CMO, to revisit their brand that it's basically a brand SWOT analysis, right? Like using emotions versus rational thinking. If you could take the LegalZoom brand, and I gave you no warning of this question so... Let's just see where this takes us. If you would take the LegalZoom brand, and you would put it through a funnel. And at the end, there's really one word or two words that you feel like your brand really captures and can own. When you think about Zappos, it's not D2C shoe sales, right? And it's not e-comm. It's customer service. It's delivering, "Wow." That's what they are about.             if you think about Everlane, its transparency. And I always love to, when I work with clients, at the end of my workshops, I like to say, "Everything we've just done for the last, God knows, four or eight hours, can we distill it into one word that everyone in the company can say, "This is what we stand for." I just assume that accessibility must be very near the top of the list for LegalZoom. But what comes to mind? Like that one word that you feel like LegalZoom could actually own?Eddie Hartman:What a fantastic question. And you'll also please permit me if I'd like to make a small detour after I've answered to sort of show you the power of this very question, frankly, in many walks of life. But with LegalZoom specifically, I think the phrase that really captured us was one that my dear friend and partner, Brian Liu... So you said it was three of us. It was me, Brian Lou and Brian Lee, came up with, which was, "Hassle-free." And studies have shown that was the issue that was stopping so many people from accessing the benefits for law was... It wasn't hassle-free. Yes, it was expensive. But it also seems so complex, so daunting, and Brian would say, "Hassle-free. Ah, yeah, that's what people want." They want a hassle-free legal experience. Absolutely. I will say though, we've gone through many phases, we said that LegalZoom's mission is to democratize the law. I believe in that. I really do.            But I think that may be a little too highfalutin for many people. It's reaching a bit too academic, I think. It's great when I am talking to my friends who are in sort of a academic setting about what's the importance of LegalZoom. We want to democratize the law? Sure. But I think for most people, the personal benefit was once hassle-free. But I'll tell you what I hope it becomes; empowerment. Hey, if you're in the sound of my voice, or if you live in America, anyway, or the UK, you are supposed to have the benefits of the law as part of your right to exist. And you don't have them. You don't. A wealthy person has a lawyer that they can turn to... She can turn to her lawyer, her lawyer will do onerous work on her behalf, or potentially a law firm will do onerous work. That's a tremendous amount of power that you don't have, but you ought to. You ought to have equal benefits under the law, and you don't.             Hopefully, what LegalZoom stands for in the future is empowerment. Connecting you back to the benefits that you have been, I would say, unfairly denied access to.Fabian Geyrhalter:Absolutely. I mean, there's so many Gen Z and millennial born-brands that are all about democratizing this, democratizing that. And there's like every [crosstalk 00:39:59]Eddie Hartman:[crosstalk 00:39:59] was democratizing juice.Fabian Geyrhalter:Exactly.Eddie Hartman:We don't need that.Fabian Geyrhalter:But coming from you, after these 20 years of having LegalZoom out in the wild, the word empowerment... And I'm sure my listeners can agree with that, the way that you said it and in the context of LegalZoom, how much more... Well, pun intended, how much more powerful that actually is to own for an organization like yours, than for an organization like many others that just want to empower the customers. But that being said, it is also wonderful, how many brands say that that's what they stand for. Because it shows the idea of customer first, and it shows the idea of, "We're with you." Right? And there is kind of this nice shift in brands and in brand thinking over the last 10, 15 years, which I really... I mean, that provides me so much joy that everything is becoming more purposeful. Right?Eddie Hartman:Absolutely. I had a client recently in the cybersecurity space, and I did this exact study, and I did the exact graphing technique that I just said hopefully your listeners will do themselves. And I said, "Well, the one thing that people don't care about is security." And he said, "You have really messed this up Mr. Hartman. We're talking about cybersecurity firm." Well, when we show them the comments though, it became immediately clear that people assume a cybersecurity company is secure. That's not what you're buying on.Fabian Geyrhalter:It's in the name. Exactly.Eddie Hartman:[crosstalk 00:41:38]. You're buying on the other attributes. Things like ease of use, simplicity. So for LegalZoom, you can imagine that people might say, "Oh, the brand should be that, 'What do you provide quality legal?' Quality legal." People assume that we have quality legal. If you listen closely to your customers, what are they really asking for? And that should be the underpinning of your brand. In LegalZoom's case, it was hassle-free. In the future? Hopefully, yes. It gives me the power I always should have had, but was wrongfully blocked from my grasp. That's what LegalZoom ought to be in the future, if you ask me.

Meet Gina   Gina is a leader in the women in sales movement. Gina's career in sales started very early in life when she would pitch your parents on important issues like her version of how grandma's vase ended up on the floor in a million pieces! She would routinely beat out her competition (aka her six siblings) for best storytelling in a dramatic role. Throughout her 20 plus years in sales and marketing in the US, Europe, and emerging economies, Gina has continued to employ those same storytelling skills in selling and other persuasive arguments.   So talking about women in general, what are some of the things that you think are holding back women from getting into leadership positions?   Well, it's not for lack of trying and it's not even for lack of perceived opportunities on the part of the companies. Many well-meaning corporations want to bring women up through leadership, and really give them opportunities. What they are kind of unaware of is that they're still environmental issues and cultural issues within companies that don't promote the same kind of allegiance to opportunities. For instance, there's like this disconnect, companies will tell me that they want to elevate women into leadership, but the women just don't speak up in meetings, they don't share their ideas. So it's hard to get sponsorship opportunities for them to give them big promotions and things. Whereas the women will tell you that they don't feel heard or seen, or they try to speak up in meetings, and they try to share their ideas and they get blank stares and then Bob will say the same thing five minutes ago and they're like, "Oh, yeah, way to go, Bob!" My apologies to all Bob's listening, that's just the name I use. It's just these kinds of underlying cultural anomalies that happen, and they keep women from actually feeling like they are heard and seen. It's really a problem because it stops them from asking for what they want, asking for the positions they want, or letting their employers know that they want those positions. Whereas a guy will say, "I am going after that VP role," and he will make it known to everybody that he wants it. So that's where the disconnect is. Companies feel like they're giving opportunities to women, and they're not taking them, but women don't feel the same way. They don't feel that they are given the same visibility and the same opportunities to share ideas and that's really holding women back.   Let's talk about actions that can be taken to help women in the workplace. How can women help themselves achieve their career goals?   Well, there's a lot of things and this is where it sounds easy, right? So if you're not getting hurt in meetings, just speak up more? Well, if you don't perceive that there is support for your ideas, or if you have tried to speak up in meetings, and you're shut down or ignored, or dismissed almost which I have heard from many women, then it's harder to go ahead and just speak up. So that's where mentors, coaches, sponsors come in and we can talk a little bit about the difference between mentors and sponsors. But where these things come in, because once you get someone who you can be as your sounding board, and you can talk through how you can handle this. Also, women can help women. If you see something happening in a meeting, if you see that Bob said something that Mary just said a few minutes ago, and Bob's getting the attaboys say, "Wow, Bob, that was great and you know? Mary was just talking about that five minutes ago." Have your sisters back! Do these things that really can help both you and her get heard better because it puts people on call that you were aware of what just happened, and you're not going to just sit there. So that takes getting used to, it takes practice. It's not something that comes all the time. But I would say one of the biggest ways that women can help themselves is to get a mentor and be honest about what it is you want to achieve, what your career goals are, where your aspirations lie. Do you want to go after a leadership position? And if so, how might you do it? How might you get around these things that you see as holding you back?   On the other hand, how can employers help women on their team?   That is one of the places that I try to coach employers on a little bit. Be aware of these things. It's not enough to say that women aren't speaking up, why aren't these speaking up? What's actually happening in those meetings? If you stop and look around, and really start to appreciate the dynamics that are happening, if women are getting elbowed out of the conversation, or one person is always dominating, you are the person to put a stop to that. That's kind of a trickle-down thing, if you're the CEO of a company, and you aren't meeting your equity and inclusion goals, then you need to start having meetings with your managers and your directors and ask what's going on? Why aren't we recruiting more women? Why what's happening in meetings? And if you're the person running those meetings, make sure you give women not just a moment where you suddenly say, "Barb, what do you think?" Because if the environment has never really been supportive, or open, to just turn the spotlight might leave them frozen in their tracks. So I would say, think about what's going on in your office in your meetings, and make sure that there is an open and inviting opportunity to speak, and that the follow on isn't just kind of, "Are you done? Is that it? Okay? So Bob, what do you think about this?" That doesn't do it, so really work on those things. Then one of the things that I preach all the time is to make sure that they have professional development opportunities because that is such a crucial piece of one; letting them know that you actually are behind their career development. It's a vote of confidence, it will buy you some allegiance too and it will help strengthen your succession plan. So doing those few things, which is just a little bit of time and a little bit of investment can make a world of difference.   Can you share with my listeners one of your favorite networking experiences that you've had?   I will say honestly and like everybody else I so miss being in person and it's unfortunate that you are not in the DC area, but one of my favorite networking events is The Institute for Excellence in Sales. They have had and will have again monthly programs and the great thing is the networking is awesome. You meet other salespeople in this instance, but they're from all kinds of companies, tech companies, government contracting companies and you meet really interesting people. Then you get treated to a phenomenal speaker who presents on the art and science of selling and I have met some of the most wonderful people through that program. Now, of course, we're expanding who we network with because of COVID in this virtual world and it's really opened up a lot of things. One; we are really leaning on platforms like Linkedin and through LinkedIn, I have done some exceptional networking and I probably would not have given it that much time if we weren't in this situation. I have found great organizations and networking opportunities in that way and I have people reaching out to me all the time too and there are just so many ways to network these days that are a heck of a lot less frightening than walking up to somebody at an in-person networking event which I know can be scary, especially when you're new, straight out of college, or new to a new industry or something because you have to go up and make small talk and do all those things that maybe don't come easily to you. So it's a brave new world when it comes to networking if you haven't tried it before, but it is such a crucial piece of your career growth and in sales.    How do you best stay in front of and nurture your network?   This is an interesting question because content is king as they say and people put so much time and energy into their content now. I have to wonder sometimes if the return on investment is actually there in terms of how much time it takes. Now, if you have a whole team making content then it might be. I like to do a lot of commenting on what interests them. I will do content too but I feel, at least for myself that the thing that works best for me so I can stay in front of people that I want to do business with and that I admire is to really engage in a conversation over the content that matters to them. So I will put my own content out there but I make sure that their content is seen and heard and shared and liked so that we have an engaging conversation around things that really are of interest to them.   What advice would you offer that business professional who's really looking to grow their network?   In this virtual time, I would see who's doing business with the companies you want to do business with, and connect with them, and then connect with those companies and businesses. It's a multi-step process and then look for associations and organizations that are in the field of business that you are selling to, and make sure you join them and get in those conversations. When we can do things back in person, go to those events, muster up the courage to speak to people. After you do it a few 100 times it's easy. But really professional organizations, not just in your particular line of business, but in adjacent ones. Think a little broadly and then find those organizations and get involved and build your network with a wider base. Try not to be too narrow.   If you could go back to Your 20-year-old self, what would you tell yourself to do more or less of or differently with regards to your professional career?   It's interesting that you asked that because, as you know, I run The Women in Sales Leadership Forum. I bring in all these amazing women to talk to all the amazing women that go through it and they talk about mentors and sponsors and programs. One, I think to myself that I wish there was more of this for women when I started my professional career, which there wasn't. Two, I have always been a little bit of an adrenaline junkie, I get off on new and exciting, and I like to do things that are super challenging and I get bored kind of easily. It's gotten a little better as I've gotten older, but I would get bored with the situation, or I would get frustrated for many of the reasons that we talked about earlier of how I was treated, or how all women were treated in a company and so I would leave, rather than figuring out a way to fight the fight. I realize now that there were some really great opportunities that I walked away from so that I would not walk away from those interests. If you have a job you love, but you're not crazy about the company, find that mentor, and figure out if there are things that you could be doing differently, or how you can ask for what you need, what you want, and what you deserve instead of getting fed up and walking away. So that would be my advice and is the thing I wish I could change.   Any final word of advice for our listeners with regards to growing and supporting your network?   Really think about ways to help support other women. What can you be doing? What do they need? And make sure you never let something get said or done and wish you had said or done something about it because it's those micro situations that kind of build and they take the wind out of people’s sails. So just make sure you have somebody back all the time, and then someone will have yours.   Connect with Gina:   Email: gstracuzzi@i4esbd.org    Visit Gina’s Website: https://i4esbd.com/  Connect with Gina on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginastracuzzi/

Sima Vasa is excited to have Bob Qureshi join her today. Bob is the co-owner and managing partner of i-view viewing facilities in London. Bob talks about the history of his business In the 1960s and 1970s, most of the qualitative research in the UK took place at the home of the recruiter. Over the years, specific facilities for research were being built in the US. Then, in the 80s, that also started to happen in the UK. A game-changer In 2010, Bob looked at the UK facilities and saw that they were all laid out like recruiter’s living rooms. They lacked things like white marker boards, places to put stimulus, and the ability to screen. So Bob decided to start with a game-changer and build everything they needed on one floor, in an easy to get to location in central London, with wide doors and access for people with special needs. They paid specific attention to detail, which means they made sure that they took account of everything. Bob’s background Bob’s background was in the corporate client-side, and he has always had an interest in qualitative research. Best Viewing Facility For the last three years in a row, i-view was awarded Best Viewing Facility in the UK. That is not an easy thing to do, and Bob feels very humbled by it. The impact of the pandemic The impact of the pandemic has been quite devastating for Bob. Collaboration Bob realized that the key thing was to replace the word “competition” with the word “collaboration”. So he decided to talk to the other viewing facilities, to collectively agree on which message they would send, who they would send it to, and how they could drive it forward. Rates relief In stopping unnecessary costs in the UK, they managed to save the municipality rates relief of over a million pounds across all the viewing facilities. They managed to recover very quickly as a result. A similar standard Through the collaboration, all the viewing facilities in the UK are sending out the same message and adopting a similar standard to deal with the prevention and spread of the virus. In-person What Bob and those with whom he is collaborating have to look at, in terms of when in-person will resume, are some of the key statistics and figures that are coming out. Essentially, they are looking for infection rates and death rates to fall and the vaccine levels to increase so that the most vulnerable in their society do not fall prey to the pandemic. When lockdown will finish Bob believes that in the UK, they will not get any indication of when they can open up again until the end of February. He assumes that lockdown will finish in March- possibly mid-March to late March or early April at the latest. Attitudes are changing People’s attitudes are changing because they feel restricted. So they are no longer as cautious as they were at the beginning of the pandemic. Bob’s passion for qualitative research Bob loves qualitative research because he wants to understand the emotional reasons for what drives people’s decision-making and causes them to behave in particular ways. Technology Bob feels very fortunate to run online focus groups or online interviews and test everything beforehand to eliminate any potential problems. Bob’s other business Early on, he decided to have several business areas that would complement each other. It means that if one sector is not doing too well, another will have the opportunity to make up for the shortfall. That is why he also owns another business, a telephone center B2B data collection agency, called Provision Research. And it has been doing very well because people are at home and easy to contact currently. Colour of Research Bob is the cofounder of Colour of Research, which started officially in June of 2020. It is a mentorship program where people of different ethnic groups can see others who look like them, who are either doing well at work or are on the way to doing well.

It's the end of 2020. So Bob and Katie are doing the very original idea of GAME OF THE YEAR AWARDS! That's right! No one ever thought of that before! And no one has done a retrospective on the year and a look forward to 2021 in gaming. EVER! It's never been done before. A totally original episode! Logos by Nirosmirwww.behance.net/user/?username=raulrodriguezpenatwitter.com/NirosmirPixelland by Kevin MacLeodLink: incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4222-pixellandLicense: creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

It’s New Year’s Eve and 2020 is finally over! So Bob is celebrating by calling some listeners to check in on them and talk about their challenges, growth, and overall experience with this past year. He talks to a singer-songwriter who was evicted from her LA apartment and forced to live in her parents basement, a special education teacher who teaches braille over Zoom, and a few others who managed to find hope and new opportunities during a dark time. Plus, Bob gets a surprise call from his old Full House pals, Jesse and Joey. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Facebook's ad platform is constantly evolving. What strategies are the experts using to get amazing results today? This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, Feedstories cofounder, author, and Facebook advertising expert Bob Regnerus breaks down the specific strategies he uses to help clients get incredible results with Facebook ads.  From using look alike audiences for targeting, to using retargeting to reach warm traffic, to why you should use deep funnel marketing strategies, Bob covers a lot of ground and shares actionable takeaways that anyone can use to improve their Facebook ads results, today. Check out the full episode, or read the transcript below, for details. Resources from this episode: Visit ultimatefb.com to check out Bob's interviews with folks like Ryan Deiss, Brian Kurtz and Perry Marshall, and to get his book Transcript Kathleen (00:00): Welcome back to the Inbound Success Podcast. I am your host, Kathleen Booth. And my guest today is Bob Regnerus, who's the co-founder of Feedstories, a digital marketing coach and author of five books, including the fourth edition of the Ultimate Guide to Facebook Advertising. Welcome Bob. Bob (00:32): So good to be here, Kathleen. How are you doing today? Kathleen (00:34): I'm great. Before we start nerding out on all things marketing, can you please tell my audience a little bit about yourself? What it is that you do and how you came to be a Facebook advertising expert? Bob (00:50): Yeah, I'm think probably very similar to a lot of the people that are listening. I am a serial entrepreneur and I'm the type of entrepreneur who kind of found his way in through corporate channels. So I have a programming background. I, I studied that in college and my first couple of gigs out of college were at big corporations in programming. And this was kind of around 1997, 98. The internet was starting to be something rather significant. So I started getting into developing websites for clients. So I developed my first website in 1998. The first website I built that I got paid for, which was really cool. And I, it was funny, I guess I got my start into internet marketing this way that the client had built the website for actually said to me, Hey, this is great. Bob (01:47): I love it. We're making sales, you know, this is amazing. Can you help me get traffic to my site? I said, yeah, absolutely. I know exactly how to do that. And of course I had no idea. Right. so I had to go and figure out how to do it, and that was my start in internet marketing. So I'm going on 22 years plus here of internet and direct marketing like many I've studied you know, the masters. Worked with Dan Kennedy book, Perry Marshall, and Frank Kern, Ryan Deiss. These are all people that I got to know over the years. So it's, it's, it's, it's a constant journey. So I happen to really navigate towards paid advertising. I know a lot of people are really good at SEO and organic and I'm really happy for them, but I find it too much of, I don't want to say this, but I'll say it it's kind of like voodoo. Bob (02:39): I don't know, Kathleen. One thing works today and then tomorrow it doesn't work. I just kind of gravitated more towards paid because it was, it's a little predictable put in a dollar, make $2, you know, that's kind of our goal here. I have worked on all the platforms GoTo, Overture Yahoo, Google Adwords, but then 2013 came around actually late 2012 and 2013. I'm like Facebook is becoming a serious player. It wasn't mainstream yet, by any sense of the imagination in terms of advertising, they had a very basic garbage had product, which was right-hand side ads that you would see on a desktop, very low click through rates, very low conversions, but they started doing what are called sponsored stories. And that is the first evolution of what we see in our newsfeed today, which is ads that look like content along with all your other personal stuff. To me, that was a big, big deal. So, I dove in head first really, really got into that and it really resonated with me cause I'm a big story guy. I really enjoy connecting with people through story and its just a really good media for that. So I, I I've really been in it for seven plus years and I don't think Facebook's going away anytime soon. So I think I have some job security. Yeah. Kathleen (04:03): Yeah, definitely. And today, are you really only focusing on Facebook ads? Are you working with clients on full funnel ad strategies across the multiple platforms? Bob (04:14): It's a really good question. I have found. Just, just for me that I, I have focused mostly on two things. I am kind of the Facebook guy in our company and then my business partner, Brandon, focuses on video and video marketing. So, we, we make, made a conscious decision not to do full funnel stuff because, we have found being specialists is a little bit more, it works better for the way we are wired than to be generalists. And so I'm not disparaging of the agencies or things like that. Just for us, it, it feels like we can, you know, separate ourselves from the competition more, but being really good at a couple of things versus trying to be good in a bunch of things. Kathleen (04:59): It's interesting because I feel like I could do a whole podcast episode and invite on a couple of paid ads, people and just stage a debate between like, should you do it all? Or should you specialize? And I've probably interviewed an equal number of people on either side. And, and one of the arguments I've always heard for specializing is that, you know, as you've kind of mentioned, these platforms are getting incredibly sophisticated in terms of their capabilities and that really to truly master them, it almost as a full-time job, you know, just staying on top of everything. Bob (05:36): Well, I, I, you know, I maybe, you know, I kind of glossed over a number of years, but I think like other entrepreneurs, Kathleen, I had my up and down cycles. I, I barely survived the crash in 2008. I actually had an agency that was well-staffed. We had about 15 people working for us and we were banking on continued growth. And a lot of our clients are information marketers, especially in the real estate niche. And of course, 2008 was the great crash. Many of our clients quickly ran out of money and when they ran out of money, they could stop, you know, they stopped paying me and formed a whole cycle. So I had the pleasure number of years ago, laying off a bunch of people that I call friends. And so I didn't want to live through that again. Bob (06:25): And so just part of the way I'm wired, I, I enjoy having a smaller company now. That's more specialized and doesn't have so many moving parts purely, purely a personal choice. I have friends that are running agencies that are six figures, seven figures, and even eight figures. And they're doing amazing. I think it's just kind of, I think you really have to pick the way you're wired and what, what, you know, I tried to develop my business now more towards the lifestyle I want. I'm, you know, I'm in my early fifties, I coach high school basketball. Like my kids who are both in college, so I'm just making different choices. And again, I think everyone's got to make their own choices as to what makes the most sense for them. And for me right now in my career, those things make the most sense to me. Kathleen (07:15): I can totally relate as somebody who owned her own digital marketing agency in the same timeframe, 2008, 2009 that was some angst ridden years. So let's, let's talk about Facebook and you know, you and I chatted a little bit before we did the podcast about how I feel like my audience is pretty experienced. And they tend to know, you know, they, they tend to know the basics. And so I would, I would be willing to bet if I were a betting woman, that the majority of them have done some Facebook advertising, you know, they, they know the one Oh one level stuff, but, and I'll speak for myself here. That's, that's me too. I've managed teams that have done Facebook ads. I could run Facebook ads on my own, but I'm not a Facebook advertising expert. And so I selfishly want to dig into is for somebody like me, who understands basically how it works, what are the things that I need to know to really take it to the next level, especially like Facebook today and how it's functioning now and the ad types that work the way you rotate in creative and just all the, you know, I guess call it two to three Oh one level. Kathleen (08:31): Things that, that really result in great performance on Facebook. I know that's a broad question. So I'm going to allow you to kind of take that where you want to take it. Yeah. Bob (08:41): Well, it's really interesting. Facebook now is very much a mature media. You know, think of where Google was about 10 years ago, where it's, it's, it's a wide swath of beginning advertisers, middle tier advertisers and high end advertisers. You know, we're talking big brand companies with big budgets and things like that. So one of the things that is different now and is difficult for a lot of advertisers, just the fact that there's just a lot of money flowing into Facebook and you and I happen to be recording this on an amazing day here in the U S it's election day. We have no idea what's going to happen by the time this airs, you know, who knows what's going to be going on. Kathleen (09:22): Right. Probably best for all of us that we're in this room. And we can't be watching the news Bob (09:27): Safe in our bunkers, listen to podcasts, not the news, but one of the big, you know, what I'm talking about here is the environment. So for about 30 days, give or take a couple of weeks, we have seen just record high CPMs. The cost of advertising has been just massive. Kathleen (09:48): Well, and we're coming into black Friday, cyber Monday. Bob (09:51): Yeah. that's coming up, but I have noticed more spending this cycle than I did in 2016. And then certainly during the midterms of 2018 just the highest CPMs we've ever seen. But yeah, so this other thing that we have going on called COVID has shifted a lot of money into the e-commerce space. So a lot of your traditional big box retailers who kind of always rely on foot traffic into their stores are now heavily investing in their e-commerce sales, because they know people are not going to go to the stores in droves. So I have seen really since, you know, kind of August here political spending, and now here we are, the elections will be over. The politicians will leave, but you're right. There's going to be a huge influx of cash into the ad auction specifically for e-commerce. And I saw a commercial, I think it was two weeks ago. Target said black Friday is now right. Kathleen (10:53): Well, prime day has already happened. I mean, I feel like it's sort of like how stores put Christmas decorations now out in August, I feel like the same thing is happening with holiday deals and sales. Yeah. Bob (11:04): It definitely is. And stores have lost a lot of money and they are going to try to make it up. So they are pumping money into advertising and trying to make that happen. So the biggest thing that people are probably facing and, you know, the clients that come to me for coaching are like, Hey, my costs are through the roof. You know, how do we get, how do we get a stance here? How, how do we like quell the rising cost of advertising? I'm pretty sure that's what most people are fighting right now. The, the answer to that is, is, is it's multifaceted. Number one is, one of the things that we have found that is working quite well is, is really giving Facebook is much ... How do I want to say this? We want to give them as much, ability to target as we possibly can. Bob (11:55): So really creating really good high value look alike audiences. It's probably a basic strategy at this point, but I've seen this mistake so many times is that people aren't modeling their best audience. Facebook's look alike audience is just that. It is a model of people that are just like a particular audience. And I find too many people still relying on interest based targeting versus look alikes. I was at a meeting at Facebook headquarters a number of years ago. And even then this was true. They said, you know, we know we know your customers better than you do. Kathleen (12:37): They probably know the customers better than the customer knows themselves. Bob (12:41): That's scary. And you, you really know that by looking at your own newsfeed, but the moral behind that story is we used to think our edge is that we would be able to dial in the targeting much better by knowing their interest and the, these pages they like and things like that. I have just found over and over that it's much better to spend time on creating a better model. So, you know, in the book we talk about this ancient concept it's called RFM recency frequency money. And the idea here is, is that we should be creating sub list of our customers. The people who've bought most recently from us, the people who buy frequently from us and the people who spend the most money and making a smaller subset of our customers and using that as a lookalike audience. And we find over and over that model beats like modeling your entire customer base and it, by far beats you know, just trying to do interest based targeting the more dialed in and the more you let the optimizer or Facebook's AI do targeting for you the better off, I think you're going to be from that standpoint. I don't know if you've experienced the same thing working with your team. Kathleen (13:54): Yeah. I mean, I'm in a new role, so we're just getting started with Facebook advertising here, but I think it's certainly in previous situations, I've I found that to be true. Yeah. Bob (14:05): And, you know, so kind of building on that that that's, that's really kind of a cold strategy is, is it, you know, if you, if you can't model your customers, the next best thing to customers is, is modeling an email list. You know, most of us are collecting email addresses and at least have kind of a non-buyer list. That's another good strategy is to do that. I'll get back to what to do if you don't have either of those, but I, I, I want to shift towards the idea of you know, what do we do kind of first, I think, and I see this mistake over and over, and this is why I'm bringing it up. People placed too little emphasis on retargeting. I think everybody's concept is, Oh, I'm going to go to Facebook and I'm going to go find a bunch of new customers. Bob (14:53): And I think that's just flat out wrong. The idea of going after cold traffic is, is great, but you, and I know this and probably people listening is that cold traffic is the hardest to convert and it's the most expensive to convert. And, and quite frankly, if you don't have things dialed in right away, you lose a lot of money and you lose a lot of confidence. So one of the big mistakes I see people making is they, they they're putting too little effort into their retargeting. Retargeting of course, is the technology powered by the Facebook pixel. It's simply the ability to reconnect with visitors to your website or people who engage with your app or your content on the Facebook platform. And again, it's, I, I see it too often to not talk about it, but the idea is people who are already somewhat familiar with us are much likely to do business with us and somebody who doesn't know us at all. Bob (15:48): I know it's elementary, but why do so many people make the mistake while they think because their product is better than all the other products? They think everyone is their customer. They simply go out to the cold, unwashed masses, and believe that their offers will convert. I really prefer to leverage warm traffic first. I like to hone my offers there and get that to convert to my warm traffic. And then if I can prove it at that level on you know, spending much less money and getting it optimized there, then I feel more comfortable going to the masses and try my offer there. I, I just think it's an elementary mistake that too many people gloss over Kathleen (16:32): Now let's talk offers for a second because having spoken with lots of different ads experts, I've heard, you know, varying opinions on the best way to structure a Facebook ads funnel. I've heard several people, just absolutely passionately evangelize that you, you can't have just bottom of the funnel ads that you need to have your top of the funnel awareness level content to kind of draw people in. And then you, you know, you go from there. Then I've also had like, you know, at least one guest who's talked about like the progression of how you update your messaging. This was one of my earliest interviews. He talked about how if people see the same ad messaging too often, it stops working. And so he had a fairly elaborate, but I thought very wise and effective process for making sure that after a certain number of touches, he like rotated in new creative. So I'd love to just get your perspective on that kind of broad topic. Bob (17:33): Well, here's where you can nerd out a little bit. So I, I have developed over time and this is, this is not top secret, but this is just something that I've developed and other marketers do this now. I call it deep funnel, marketing, others have different names, names for it. I really adhere to a principle that Eugene Schwartz talked about in 1966 and his book Breakthrough Advertising. It's, it's basically the customer awareness timeline. And I, and I detail this in the book. Anytime you're going out to the market, people are at various levels of awareness. Most of the market is unaware of who you are and what you offer. That's, that's just a fact. So as you, as you think about that, and as you move to the right of the timeline, the next stage is problem aware. This is really where a lot of Google advertisers really live and it's, it's actually a difficult adjustment for somebody who's good at Google to shift to Facebook. Bob (18:32): It's because people who advertise on Google are instinctively aware about people's problems. Google is a problem solving mechanism. So when you go advertise on Google, there are people that are actively looking for solutions solution, where it happens to be the next stage of the awareness journey. And the idea is, Hey, I know you have this problem and I do a better job of detailing that problem, agitating that problem, and offering you a solution to that problem. That's, that's where a lot of advertisers are living, unfortunately, who advertise on Facebook. I see too many people running problem aware and solution aware ads to cold traffic. And that's a huge, huge mistake because only, Hey, here's what I'd like to say. Facebook is an interruption mechanism. Facebook is like a, it's like a anniversary party. You have a bunch of people over and today would be outside. Bob (19:29): We wouldn't be indoors. We'd be outside in the backyard. There'd be family and friends there. We're celebrating the day. You know, we're laughing with, with our friends and family, and here comes a vacuum cleaner sales button, and they're screaming from the, you know, they're walking to the park. They're like, Hey, buy my vacuum cleaner. Well, you are a unwelcome guest. You're a pest at that party. Too many Facebook advertisers act like that. I know it's a funny example, but the idea is we're interrupting people who are looking at pictures of family and friends. I mean, that's essentially what Facebook is. We are interrupting them. And when somebody is at the unaware stage and you are interrupting them with problem aware solution, where ads, you are going to waste a lot of money and you're going to have really low quality scores and in turn and have really, really expensive ads that don't convert. Bob (20:19): I think too few advertisers don't think about how to time their content. So, okay. If I'm going to interrupt somebody in the Facebook timeline, or what do I need to say to demonstrate my ability or to agitate a particular problem they have, or offer up a particular service or anything like that, you have to have different top of funnel content when you're interrupting them the first time, then once they've signaled to you that they're interested. And this is really key that the pixel really powers this. You know, I look for signals like this, they visited my landing page and they fill out a form or they watch a one-minute video. They put in their Facebook newsfeed and they watched 100% of it, meaning, Hey, they were engaged for a full 60 seconds. To me, that's a signal that, okay, they've moved beyond the unaware stage. Bob (21:14): They're now either problem aware solution aware, and they're on their way to our solution aware or your solution aware. That's when you can start to offer them more. What I would call middle of funnel, nurturing type content, credibility, boosters, like testimonials, demonstrations you know, FAQ's those types of things. And then when they move down the funnel further, like they view an order form they watch a webinar or they've been on a call with you or something further down, well, now we're their bottom of funnel and they're very much aware of your solution and they're really narrowing it down to you or somebody else or worth you or nothing. Then you really want to target your ads towards that mindset. And I think too many people try to shortcut it and they're really misfiring on where their customer's awareness level is that, and that's where there there's big pockets of waste in their ad account because they're not adhering to where the customer is in terms of their customer awareness journey. Kathleen (22:14): Yeah, it's interesting. I think that makes so much sense. And I think I know that I know that in the past I've made that mistake of sort of having the set it and forget it mentality with my ads and not recognizing that the customer is on a journey and the ad needs to go on that journey. The ad set needs to go on that journey with them. Bob (22:34): And I don't know, Kathleen, the type of clients that you work with. I tend to work with clients that have much more complex or higher price products and services. Okay. Kathleen (22:41): I don't work with clients anymore. I'm in house now. I've been out of the agency game for awhile. Bob (22:48): I think this is another thing too, is the level of complexity in your product and the length of the buying decision makes a big difference too. You know, we mentioned e-commerce and I, and I have a lot of clients over the years who do e-commerce and it's really, it's kind of like the product that sits at the checkout counter before you go out where you don't have to do a lot of thinking. These are the types of products that the Harmon brothers, right? They work with Dollar Shave Club. And some of those like, Hey, I just saw a video. It entertained me. It's a product that I think is cool. I'm going to buy it. There's, I mean, there's obviously retargeting things involved, but it's really just like, Hey, the product is cheap enough or it's simple enough that I don't need to think about it. Bob (23:33): I tend to attract those that are in the more complex markets. So we have more complex problems itself. It usually involves higher prices or a lot more thinking involved. So you have a lot more nurturing time in between, and it really takes a little bit more money and a little bit more patience to be able to work in that situation. Those that have that type of staying power do find success though because they're willing to go to those lengths to move and be with the customer as they shift from being unaware of me, to being aware of me and making a decision to buy. Kathleen (24:10): What about ad formats? So specifically, you know, there are so many different ad formats now from, you know, sponsored content to stories, to videos, to you name it. You know, and that's, that's just on Facebook and I'm sure I've missed, oh carousels. I'm sure I've missed so many, but what have you seen in terms of effectiveness? Bob (24:33): Well, it's interesting. I wish I was more creative. A lot of these new formats involve a high level creativity, and there's some cases where those big agencies just have an edge over me. I am really a proponent 80% of the time when you're starting out, you really need to focus in on the mobile newsfeed and two secondary to the desktop newsfeed. I, I prefer going into a market and make things much more simple. There are so many placements and there's so many types of ads and designs that you could do that we, we get. I think we get stuck quite honestly, I think becomes overwhelming. So what I prefer to do is, is, is simplify things for people and say, Hey, let, let's do something simple. Let's, let's try image ads and video ads in the mobile newsfeed. And I do know about mobile newsfeed, because 90% of our traffic to most businesses is going to be on the mobile side. Bob (25:36): Okay. So I like to start there. In fact, you could live there for a very long time before you need to start branching out to other forms. Now, again, it's probably a function of the type of coaching clients that I have and the type of clients that come to us where, where some of those newer formats and more exciting formats are probably more appropriate. But you know, just realize that you really want to mix those placements and those types of designs to the type of environment and market that you're going after. I think certainly if you're in a market that skews a bit younger you probably need to have a lot more attention to types of like stories and things like that. One of the fortunate things is that we can hit both Instagram and Facebook through the same ad interface. Bob (26:25): And you, you need to have some differences between those, you know. Instagram prefers, you know, shorter videos, square videos. Facebook tends to like, you know, profile videos like four by five, seven by 16 format works well, or the landscape 16 by nine works well. So I think part of it, Kathleen is really just I don't like people to get confused or overwhelmed by the number of choices they have. A lot of what Facebook puts into their system is, is what big advertisers are demanding. And I think part of what they do is as they deliver new products, new placements, new formats, they're, they're trying to create extra space to show ads, but the, the stalwart, the the steamship, whatever that drives Facebook's ad engine and drives most of the response still, in my opinion, is the newsfeed type ads. Kathleen (27:21): And when you start a new campaign how many different variations on the creative do you start out with? Cause I'm a big believer in, you know, like testing and you can learn a lot, but I feel like, I feel like you could spend, you know, all your time just coming up with a million variations. So what's your personal approach to that? Bob (27:42): It's a really good question. I think it's actually become simpler. If we are going after cold traffic, let's say we've, we've kind of here's what I, here's what I'd like to have and be armed with. Okay. as I mentioned before, I like to start with warm traffic. So what we do is we usually go and testing kind of three variations of an ad. I do not like to mix like images and videos in the same ad. So what I prefer to do is we'll, we'll develop three different videos with kind of three different messages first. So we'll, we'll kind of test those. And then what we do is we keep the same primary texts. So I'm assuming a lot about what people know about Facebook ads, but essentially there is a primary text that you see below your page name, there's the media, and then there's a headline and there's a call to action button. Bob (28:35): So to keep things simple in our minds is we will test images first and we'll really evaluate click-through rates and just kind of see you know, how are people clicking through? And then we'll also on a video. See, like how many of the videos are, you know, getting engagement all the way through Facebook gives you, you know, how many watched it for 15, or I'm sorry, 25%, 50, 75, a hundred percent. So we'll evaluate videos that way, but I don't like evaluating images versus videos. So we'll do a video test and then we'll also do image test. You know, I like to do three. I think when you get past three, I see, I see too many inconsistent results. So you could run an image test on one day and, you, you, you think you have a definitive result and the very next day Facebook will decide to put its impressions on another image and it's really arbitrary. Bob (29:33): So I find that three doesn't confuse the optimizer too much. And if when, once you run it for several days, you start to see some consistency. There's usually going to be a clear winner. There's going to be somewhere in second, and then there's going to be a laggard. Usually what you're going to find is that one is one is a clear winner and one is a real laggard. Um, I, I, I like to test that first and then we rotate in. So every time we have a loser, we'll throw a new one in and we'll try to beat, you know, and just see if we can move that up the totem pole. I like to kind of find three different pieces of media that work well. And then we start to test the primary text. Um, other thing that people really, really need to test is your primary texts. Bob (30:18): Maybe you don't realize, but you only see three lines. Okay. So we used to think direct marketing. We need to test headlines well in Facebook, we need to taste, test the media first, and then we need to just test the first three lines of our text. So I spend most of my time really working on the first three lines of my opening primary text paragraph. Now, the other copy is definitely critical that we found the most impact is from, from trying variations of the first three lines. And here's, here's something just that I have found. And, and I pass this along. Everybody is you're when your three lines really engage the person in kind of a story format. If you are able to tell a story or, or engage kind of, and create an open loop in somebody's mind, then you get them to engage with the rest of the text involved in the ad. So I start with images. I'm sorry. I start with videos. Then I test images. Then I test primary text. Kathleen (31:20): That's super helpful. And that makes me kind of think of another question, which is how long do you let a test run? Because I do feel like I hear frequently from marketers, like, Oh, I tried Facebook advertising and it didn't work. Or I tried LinkedIn advertising, you know, like I hear this about all the platforms and I'm always interested in like, is it that they didn't try long enough? Is it that when they thought it wasn't working, they should have just started new creative? Like how long do you go before you come to the conclusion? Like this channel just isn't working for me. Bob (31:54): Yeah. There's two things that are always constantly battling for me. Number one is I have this statement and it's, it pretty much always rings true. The way something starts is the way it ends. And this is really true on Facebook for me is that if, if, if one particular piece of creative runs out in front, it's generally not going to get beat by something else. Facebook is, I mean, it's weird, but you know, Facebook is really smart. You know, the, the, the people that are creating the ad algorithm are really, really smart. The machine, the algorithms are really, really smart. So it's very rare that we will see a test run out to a lead and then retreat back later. We're always to let that run long enough so that it has some, statistical relevance. In general, there's always this rule of like 200, like you need 200 actions or 200 of anything to really make, make sure. Bob (32:54): I tend to break that more often than not just, just going by the first, first observation. I, I have found that if you let something run a couple of days and it's just way ahead it's never going to get caught by the other two iterations. So what I like to do in that instance is declare that winner. And again, I'm not just spending $5 a day. I think, you know, you, you need to spend a couple hundred dollars on an ad before you can really make a call. It's not a hard and fast rule Kathleen, but I, I prefer, I feel much more comfortable calling a winner when I spend at least a couple of hundred dollars. So I'll follow the rule of 200 in terms of the monetary side of things. And I feel really comfortable kind of declaring a winner after Facebook's had at least a couple hundred dollars to spend. Kathleen (33:40): All right, this is the perfect segue. Let's talk budgets. Oh yeah. Everybody, I'm sure you get this question with every single new customer that you sign. I remember I got it when I had an agency. How much should I be prepared to spend with Facebook advertising? Bob (33:57): So there's, there's always a two part answer. The first answer is retargeting can be very, very inexpensive. I have some clients that are running very simple. What I call nurturing campaigns for $5 a day. Okay. They're coaching clients. They have a simple funnel. They don't spend a lot of money. They don't get a lot of traffic. They can put their retargeting out and nurture clients or nurture their prospects for $5 a day. However, if you are going to go and scale and go cold traffic, you need, you need to be prepared to start spending $5,000 a day. Like I said, the cost of traffic is going up, and it's going up for everybody. And of course, you know, we're, we're, we're giving you tips and tricks and we're trying to teach you how to be most effective to reduce, you know, reduce your cost, increase your response and things like that. Bob (34:48): But it really comes down to a couple of things. Number one is, what's the conversion rate, you know, what's the normal conversion rate of your site. You know, how many people do you need to drive to that site in order for them to generate revenue for you? And, the second factor then is how much can you afford to spend to convert a customer? So the question, is a great question. We always get it. And we, we always have to kind of analyze each business individually, but it really comes down to conversion rates and, and margins. The more margin you have, the easier it is to be an advertiser. If you, if you have really tight margins and really tight windows to convert people, unfortunately it's going to be really difficult for you to make Facebook work. Because again, there, there was an expense. Bob (35:39): You know, Facebook is not just going to give you customers, you really gotta work at it. So I, I would encourage those that have small budgets to really focus most of their time and money on retargeting. It's going to be really effective. It has the greatest return on ad spend. I have, I have an e-commerce client where we started, we only ran retargeting for three months, but that client was getting 15 to one, 25 to one, 40 to one return on ad spend during that time. And so we, we lived there for several months, kind of build up their cash stores and to give them confidence before we went out to cold traffic. Um, just know that if you've limited focus on retargeting, once you're at a cashflow or revenue space where you can afford to invest in cold advertising, then you go ahead and scale outward to that. Kathleen (36:32): Great. Well, I feel like I could keep asking you questions about Facebook all day long, because this is such a big topic. But we are running out of time. So I want to switch gears and ask you the two questions I always like to ask all of my guests, the first of which is we always talk about inbound marketing on the podcast because we're the inbound success podcast. Is there a particular company or individual that you think is really setting the gold standard for what it means to be an inbound marketer today? Bob (37:00): Yeah. I mean, I, I want to mention a couple people. I'm really fortunate to be friends with Ryan Deiss. Ryan and I were in the same mastermind group before he was Ryan Deiss. What I really appreciate, and I did an interview actually for this book. Ryan's one of the co-authors in the book. He contributed a chapter. I was really proud to have him in the book. But what he's done with Digital Marketer, he talks about in an interview I did. He kind of this promoter, but he's really a humble guy. And what I really like is they, they really lead with content. They, they understand kind of the needs of marketers and they've done a really good job of niching their content and offering things to people that make it really easy to engage. They lead with education and they have really good people that are kind of working to educate the marketing community. So, you know, no matter where you go on their site, there's, there's ways to engage with them. There's there's tools. There's just all kinds of goodies that you can get from them. I think they over-deliver on their content and that's really, what's made Digital Marketer such a huge company. And then of course, the Traffic and Conversion Summit, probably the biggest marketing conference in the world at this point. Kathleen (38:19): I just had to laugh when you said you knew Ryan Deiss before he was Ryan Deiss because I know Ryan Deiss. You know, he's not my best friend or anything. I don't know him that well, but I know him and I find it hard to believe in my head that he didn't just exit the womb as the Ryan Deiss that he is today, because like, he just seems so fully baked. Bob (38:36): So I just had to chuckle when you said that he's, he's a good guy and a great family guy. Yeah. I also, I do want to talk about, obviously I wrote this book with Perry Marshall. Perry of course, he's been around forever. He's kind of the first person that introduced Google Adwords to the marketing community. But even Perry kind of for a while, kind of went through a wall with his lead generation. And just recently we worked on a project where he did a, a five day challenge. So challenge funnels of course are kind of all the rage and we kind of think, well, those don't work anymore. But Perry just recently did a five day challenge. He, he did it of course, to re-engage some unengaged people on this list. Bob (39:26): We, we got about 500 people re-engage and the cost of that was about $3 50 cents to kind of get somebody enrolled, but we rolled that out. Perry's team rolled that out. I should say rolled that out to cold traffic generated 2,500 new leads into the company for the same amount of money. So about $3 and 50 cents a lead. Now the normal lead, like people are happy around nine or $10 a lead in, in this space. And so that absolutely broke kind of this paradigm where we thought we knew all the tricks really, really took was somebody who really knew how to execute that idea. David Nadler, who's also in the book with me, brought the idea of the challenge funnel to Perry and, you know, together, they put that out there. So those types of things to work, and they're not just tips and tricks, like when you really have value behind something those structures really work. Bob (40:28): So a challenge funnel is really good. And I'll just mention one more. I, I have a particular client that I'm, that I'm helping, who is just doing quiz funnels to the Nth degree. You know, these are not just like buzzwords and hacks. They really, really work. He's got a quiz funnel in the lead generation space, and it's just, it's just converting better than anything he's ever tried. So, you know, I think all of us, you know, listening to this podcast cast and following some of these people, these ideas that are out there, they're not just like, they just don't work for a little while. They can continue to work for years and years. We maybe lose favor with it because we're always looking for the next thing, but I I'm afraid that we let ideas kind of pass too quickly. And we forget about some of the things that really really work, especially in non marketing spaces, but, I'm just really proud of Perry to kind of go, Hey, you know, I don't know everything, sought out somebody to try something different and absolutely smashed for him. So I'm really proud of him. Kathleen (41:35): That's a great story. And I think those are three really fantastic people to check out. So thank you for that. Second question. And I think this definitely applies in the field that you're in. I always hear marketers saying, gosh, you know, how to, how can I keep up with all the changes that are happening in the world of digital marketing? It changes so quickly. You know, I feel like I'm overwhelmed. So how do you personally stay up to date and keep yourself educated? Bob (41:59): Yeah, I'm real careful too. I mean, obviously putting a book out and coaching clients and things like that, I don't have the same type of space and time anymore to be educated. So you know, I, I'm a friend and business partner, Perry Marshall, but I still read his email. So Perry is the person I follow. The second person I follow is Ryan Deiss. I think Digital Marketer distills a lot of the good ideas that are all around kind of our, our world. So I do follow Digital Marketer. And then I also follow Brian Kurtz. Brian Kurtz is founder of Boardroom. He retired from that. Brian, I follow Brian because he, he talks at a kind of a a really fundamental level. And so what I, what I get from Brian, he sends out an email once or twice a week, and it's really about principles type stuff. Bob (42:52): I, I didn't say it or maybe I did say it I'm a high school basketball coach, so I really value fundamentals. I really love to be successful that you have to master the simple things. And so at this point in my career, I just really value people that, that teach fundamentals versus tactics and hacks. You know, those things, like I said, hacks only lasts for a little while with fundamentals last for a long, long time. And I was really careful by the way in my book too, to make it a lot of fundamentals versus tactics, because a book about Facebook is going to go, it's going to go irrelevant real quickly. Right. You know, that screenshots are going to be out of date and things like that. So I was really careful to put a lot of fundamentals. They know it. So that's the type of people I like to follow these, Kathleen (43:38): You know, that story really resonates with me. And as you were telling it, it, it reminded me of something that I had almost forgotten about, which is, I almost never talk about my kids on the podcast, but my stepson, many years ago, we were going on a like a skiing, snowboarding vacation. And he broke his arm right before we left. And he was basically told like, look, you really can't go and do all that. But he was so heartbroken. And what we figured out was, we were like, well, you, maybe you can't go on like those black diamond slopes that you're used to going on. He was a snowboarder. But what if we enroll you in like private snowboarding lessons and the person, and they focus on the fundamentals with you, like you really nail how to carve a turn. And he was so mad at us. Kathleen (44:27): He was like, lessons, I'm too old for that. Like, this is waste of time, but we were like, we're not going to let you just go down the mountain with this broken, like he had a cast on and everything, but, and it was funny. He went kind of kicking and screaming and he, it helped that he had a really cute girl who was his teacher, but I will say, like, he really did learn the fundamentals. He really nailed like the turning and this and that. And I remember it was like in the year after that, that he became a really phenomenal snowboarder and he actually went on to teach snowboarding. So I just, like that came back full force when you told that story. And I had, I had forgotten about it. Bob (45:05): Fundementals are boring. Like I coach 16, 17 year old boys. Like they all think they're going to go to the NBA and, you know, they're, they're not they would much rather scrimmage and do all the fun stuff in practice. They don't want to do the things that really make them better. But those, those that really master that and do that end up being our best players and they have really rewarding high school careers, and some are lucky enough to go play in college. Fundamentals are boring. I, I get it. Nobody wants to dribble a basketball or, or practice passing because we all think we're past it. We were like that as marketers. We think we all heard the terms and we've all done it. But I I've seen enough. I've gone inside enough Facebook ad accounts of supposedly really expert people. We all have blind spots. I guarantee, you know, I, I have people come in and help me out and we just all have blind spots. I think, I think we're all to kind of pushing our, our, our, our fame too far or our egos too far. I think we all have blank spots. We have spaces that we can improve on. So I value fundamentals and I, and I love when people call me out on, on really simple things. Cause I, I just think we all have blind spot. Kathleen (46:20): Well, I think that's the perfect note to end on. I totally agree. So Bob, if somebody has been listening to this episode and they want to learn more about you or what you do or connect and ask a question, what is the best way for them to do that? Bob (46:36): Thank you very much. I would love for them to visit ultimatefb.com. That's ultimatefb.com. It's it gives you a link to go get the book. But I have I have 10 interviews on there. So I do have interviews with Ryan Deiss and Brian Kurtz and Perry Marshall and others. All people who helped me kind of put the book together. And so I was really proud to get them on camera, just like you and I are talking, and get them to tell some stories that maybe few people have heard before. So ultimatefb.com is a great connection to me and to all that I have to offer. Kathleen (47:14): Fantastic. I will put that link in the show notes, and that brings us to the end. So if you're listening and you enjoyed this episode, please head to Apple podcasts or the platform of your choice and leave the podcast a review. That would be incredible. And if you know somebody else who's doing kick ass inbound marketing work, as always, tweet me at @workmommywork because I would love to make them my next interview. Thank you so much for joining me, Bob. This was great. Bob (47:39): Fantastic discussion. Thank you for having me.  

On today's show our guest is Bob O'Donnell. Bob is President and Founder and Chief Analyst at TECHnalysis Research.  He's widely regarded as an expert in the technology market research field and his original research and advice is used by executives and large technology firms all over the world. I'd like to introduce my co-host Camille Morhardt. So hi, Camille, how are you doing today?   Camille Morhardt: Hey Tom. I'm doing great.   Tom Garrison: So what's on your mind today?   Camille Morhardt: Well, I know this sounds like a big topic. I was going to say artificial intelligence and compute.   Tom Garrison: Wow.   Camille Morhardt: But I wanted to start with something a little bit smaller: end devices. So when I think about the evolution of AI, the smartphone, particularly, with its built-in camera kind of gave deep learning such a boost. And then when I think about when I know what I'm going to do, and I need to sit down and get something done, I still go to my PC. So, what I'm wondering is when I think of the development of AI, it's kind of through the smartphone as this end device. And then of course, servers on the backend for centralized learning models. And then when I think about the future, I tend to think IOT, preventive, maintenance and exciting things like that. But what about this basic workhorse that is the PC? What's happening with respect to artificial intelligence and the PC   Tom Garrison: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. In general, there's some pretty cool things about AI. Some of them sound boring, but they're, they're actually pretty game-changing and one of them sort of boring sounding ones is using AI to basically guess what you're about to do on the PC. So if, for example, you're working away in Microsoft Word, and you've been going at it for a while typing, and then you pause for a moment and you start to move the mouse up, chances are you're, you're either going to be clicking on Save, or you're going to be clicking on Print or something like that. And using AI based on your, the things that you do--without even thinking about it--you can use AI to guess what you're about to do, and then make those actions something that's basically one click away or something that's just right there on the screen. And it's kind of invisible to the user, but it gets us out of having to remember “which dropdown box do I have to click on this and then that.” And you know, like if in Excel, I don't know how many times in Excel I have tried to find the dang “wrap text,” little check box. Those are all things where AI can watch your behavior over time and learn your behavior and then sort of present the things that you're likely to do in a very easy to find mechanism.   Camille Morhardt: Okay. So you're talking about, you know, basic sort of workload, help my life get better kind of a thing. So what about on the security front? Is there anything that we're seeing there?   Tom Garrison: Yeah. So the first one was just one sort of simple example. And then on the AI side for security what's being looked at now is around using AI to see is the machine operating in a way that it doesn't normally operate. So knowing enough about the way you use your device, to be able to say, “huh, now I, the PC, and operating in a way I don't normally operate” and flagging that. Doing that in a way that doesn't induce a lot of false positives (or obviously false negatives too) but false positives are a real problem for security, because if you are sort of Chicken Little, and you're always raising your hand saying, “Oh, there's a problem! Oh, there's a problem!,” then pretty soon people start ignoring you. And so the, the promise of AI is to be able to do that and see these anomalous behaviors that you should flag.   Camille Morhardt: I would like to learn a little bit more about that and find out what other people in the industry are seeing.   Tom Garrison: Yeah. I think that's probably a great podcast right there. What, what do you say we narrow in on that topic?   Camille Morhardt: Yeah, I like it.   Tom Garrison: All right, let's go for it. Okay on today's show our guest is Bob O'Donnell. Bob is President and Founder and Chief Analyst at TECHnalysis Research. He’s widely regarded as an expert in the technology market research field and his original research and advice is used by executives and large technology firms all over the world. So Bob, you are the perfect guest for us today. So thank you and welcome to the show.   Bob O’Donnell: Thanks for having me.   Tom Garrison: So our topic today is around Artificial Intelligence. And I wonder if you could just spend a moment and talk a little bit about your background and this topic around AI.   Bob O’Donnell: Sure. So I have been a tech industry analyst for a little over 20 years. And prior to that, I was in the music technology business--so writing and reading and playing with musical equipment (because I'm a musician for fun, as well). But so I've been following tech industry trends for a long time. And as we've seen the evolution of computing, we've seen the development of more sophisticated software tools along with more sophisticated silicon and those worlds kind of really coming together in a very interesting way with Artificial Intelligence. The idea being that you could start to see the ability to do things above and beyond what basic software would allow and enable, and then unique means of solving problems and then silicon being designed to accelerate that, cause it turns out not all, everything would just be accelerated by a CPU. But long story short is as I've tracked these trends in devices and core technologies and software in the cloud, AI has all of a sudden become this huge issue. And I've done some independent research studies on it, I did a survey of AI use in the enterprise. I've done research on AI and consumer applications gaming and so it's just an area that I've looked at quite closely, because there's so much interest in fascination with it. Of course there's so many different variations on it between machine learning and the different flavors of AI. And it gets very confusing very quickly, certainly, but at the end of the day, it's about being able to extend some of the core, basic types of software tools that we've created in ways that we may not have thought of before. And it's also a way, frankly, from another perspective, it's a way to make sense of data in a manner with which we haven't thought about it before. So it's a combination of how do you create these algorithms? how do you interpret this data? and how do you put that all together into something that goes above and beyond what we've traditionally done? And it's a fascinating field, obviously, that has lots of implications all over the place.   Tom Garrison: Yeah, no, this is, this is a great, and, and I wonder through the research that you've done--and I understand you've got a white paper coming out as well--for the listeners here, what are some of the key sort of “ahas” or takeaways from your research?     Bob O’Donnell: Initially all the excitement, frankly, and all the action in AI was happening on smartphones, right? It was all about smartphones. A lot of it was we heard about computational photography, the ability to enhance image quality and do, uh, very clever processing in ways above and beyond what you could do with the traditional Photoshop filter types of things. And then we saw audio processing, as well, as some other things. But the PC was a little late to the game. And now what we're starting to see--and what my research is on--is about AI usage on PCs. We're starting to see PCs be part of the equation. We're seeing a lot of adoption of AI in various PC applications. 90% of PC developers that we surveyed are working on some sort of AI machine learning or deep learning type of effort--either by integrating into a function within their application or building entirely new applications based on that. So that's huge, right? That's a huge amount of focus being placed there. And at the same time, we've also seen of course, a lot of effort around both companies like Intel, as well as NVIDIA and others to build algorithms and software development kits that can leverage that and to build acceleration into some of the chips that they're creating. So, I mean, everybody is really focused on trying to bring some of that magic that we saw with smartphones a couple of years back to the PC, because there's a lot of interesting applications, especially nowadays when we're all using our PCs a heck of a lot more.   Camille Morhardt: Hey Bob, what is kind of one of the major use cases that people are actually doing with AI on a PC?   Bob O’Donnell: There's a number of things. So we are seeing some of the same kinds of things we saw in smartphones. We're seeing some of the filters, you know, for image filtering and audio filtering, especially now with video conferencing, noise reduction in the background is a huge deal, right? Because we've all had dogs and kids and, you know, loud noises happening in the background. The other thing we've seen, actually, is workflow automation, processes totally radically different kind of thing, but using tools to leverage how data workflows are happening or process workflows. All those kinds of tools that are run on PCs are also changing.Also a lot on security and threat protection. We're seeing more and more automated tools to look for security threats. You know, a lot of what AI does at a simplistic level is it Looks for patterns, right? You teach it a bunch of patterns--a lot of these AI algorithms--and then from that, it can determine other patterns. That's a classic, deep learning application. It was initially, you know, it was show 50 pictures of, uh, of, of dogs and then show some more pictures that they haven't been trained on and decide if it's a dog or not. Well, take that a million times further, here's a signature or here's an application that's functioning in an unusual way on a PC, could that potentially be a security threat? And so you'll see a lot of AI based tools around security and threat protection also being used.   Camille Morhardt: Who's owning those models, then? If we're doing AI on the PC and looking for threat protection, in particular, I guess maybe, you know, is that the IT department who's owning the takeaways from that? or are there managed service providers that are collecting that?   Bob O’Donnell: I think we're seeing all of the above. Obviously in a lot of corporate environments, and even in our extended corporate view of the world with a work from home, IT shops will install, obviously, a number of security tools--there's the traditional MacAfee, Symantec types of things. There's obviously what Microsoft has done with Defender. But there's more advanced other technologies we've seen from Cylance and some of these other companies--some of whom have been purchased by some of the big PC vendors. But there's a number of tools being deployed, sometimes by corporate IT, sometimes by individuals because, you know, the boundaries between personal and work of course have completely been obliterated during the pandemic. And so you have people working on personal PCs and they're installing those kinds of tools there. But you also, in fact, have service providers, uh, who are involved with this at a corporate level. You've got people who provide a managed security type services that are watching what goes in and out, past the firewall. Again, things are very different now because whereas everything used to be behind the firewall, now, literally everything is outside the firewall and that's changed the dynamic of what the things you have to look for, the types of threats. So there's all kinds of services being offered from a variety of vendors. You're seeing it as well in network equipment, from the large networking companies. So folks who are in charge of the network at many organizations as a part of IT they might be monitoring. Um, so it's being approached and attacked on many different levels with AI being applied to almost all of these different security applications.   Tom Garrison: So do you see Bob then that the AI is basically just being integrated into many of the sort of existing products that are out there? And it just makes their products better?   Bob O’Donnell: It is. It's a good question, Tom. And yeah, I mean the bottom line is a lot of what's happening is not necessarily that the entire-- I mentioned that some people are trying to do entirely new apps with AI. But the vast majority of what's happening is they're taking a function or two, and they're integrating AI into that. Or they're building a couple of special new features and capabilities leveraging AI models or deep learning or what have you. So that's typically the way that we're seeing, developers on the PC, as well as other platforms do that, right? We saw the same thing on smartphones. There were always photo apps and camera apps on smartphones, but they just got a little bit smarter through the integration of some of these technologies. And frankly, in the case of smartphones, Qualcomm had a bunch of software development kits and APIs and things like that, along with Android and the two worked together to create a suite of tools that developers could use. Now, we're seeing the same thing with Intel doing that with OpenVINO on the PC side, as well as Microsoft. So there's a lot of efforts. And then of course there's, you know, and then special instructions being integrated into the latest generation of CPU's again from Intel as well as from AMD. So lots of different parties working together to bring AI more to the mainstream.   Tom Garrison: We're certainly doing a lot of work in the hardware side, making sure that our platforms are, uh, highly performant doing AI type workloads. I wonder, from your perspective, is there anything that really has caught your imagination? Cause I'm envisioning now our listeners are listening to this podcast saying how is AI gonna impact my business?   Bob O’Donnell: Well, I think it's going to happen across a number of areas. Sort of a big picture one is around analytics. You know, we've talked about analytics and big data in the corporate world for, I dunno, 10, 15 years. It seems like forever. And the reality is that a lot of the initial analytics efforts, frankly, were not very successful. They were trying to dive into big chunks of data and try and discover patterns and, and they really weren't particularly successful in doing so. The beauty of AI is you're unleashing algorithms onto these huge datasets and they are finding more success. So I think anything that involves traditional analytics types of applications, where you're searching for patterns in data--and that can happen across any industry and we're seeing that all kinds of places. We're also happening, see it happening in IOT tape type applications. If it's in manufacturing, you know, predictive analytics where you can not only be, you know, searching for data, but you can see patterns start to emerge of sensor data that might make you say, ”Oh, I think that piece of equipment is going to fail. We've got to deal with that.” We're starting to see that as well on PCs, right? I mean, it was back from the old days of smart hard drives, right, where you have these sort of basic tools built into the hard drive, they would try and be able to warn you, “Hey, I think we're in trouble here.” Now we've got the same kinds of things happening on other components, right?--whether it be memory or other elements of a PC. So we're seeing those, that predictive analytics happening. The other big area, frankly, than I think most people are starting to see is in basic office productivity. So now, for example, if you use your, either Office 365 or G Suite, or is now Google calls it Google Workspaces, you've got these tools, the editing applications that give you content recommendations, right? They'll say, “Hey, not only is it a spell checker, it's a grammar checker. Now it's even a content type of checker. Here's some suggested content for you.” One of the things I love in PowerPoint is a feature called Designer and Designer is an AI powered function that will create layouts for you. If you don't have your own in-house art department who designs all your slides, you've got to create your own. And even if you have a preset template that a lot of companies have, you still want to jazz it up and create some varieties and do some cool things with images. And the beauty of Designer is it can take some images and come up with some suggested layouts that look awesome and require very little effort on your part. We're seeing things like the ability in video conferencing applications to track someone if someone's walking around, uh, or they're swaying, the camera can track the person and keep them centered in the frame. Uh, so all kinds of subtle-- and that we've also seen things like, you know, A little creepy, but you know, they raise your eyes up so it makes you look like you're actually looking at the person instead of looking down. Cause you know, a lot of times your camera's above your screen, so you really looking up, but sometimes you're looking down at the people you're talking to. And so it's a little weird. So it literally just tweaks the position of where your eyeballs are looking to make it feel like someone's actually looking at you as they're talking to them in a Zoom call. So like I said, all kinds of different real world applications that I think pretty much everyone has started to see and there's creeping their way into the mainstream.   Camille Morhardt: Okay. So you've used the word “creepy” and “creeping” a couple of times. So I'm going to run with that just a little bit. What are we worried at all about privacy when we've got all of this kinds of tracking and voice, and now content suggestions? I won't even go there?   Bob O’Donnell: Yes. Look, people are a little worried about it, right? Analytics, one of the, one of the analytics that people are doing is personal analytics, as in it's tracking everything I do and then making suggestions on what I want, right? We've seen this with advertising. We see this with all kinds of things and so yes, there is obviously some concern with that. The beauty of what's happening is we are now getting the intelligence and the compute power to do what's called Inferencing, locally. So, you know, the idea you've got training and inference when it comes to AI training is when you take a whole bunch of data and you create these algorithms by essentially training it what to look for, what to think of that's classic machine and deep learning types of algorithms. Then you apply those and you do inference by taking input and comparing it essentially to the algorithm and figuring it out. Now in the past, you used to have to do that inference in the cloud, meaning everything you did had to be sent to the cloud, to someone else's data center and the data was processed there. By doing it locally--even though that sounds like sort of an arbitrary distinction--it's huge because it means all of a sudden, all of that inference work looking at my own data or your own data who's ever owned data happens on the local device. So all of a sudden that means my data isn't necessarily being shared out to the entire world and that makes a big difference to people, as well. They want the benefits of smart suggestions and content suggestions, all this kind of stuff. But, you know, they don't necessarily want their entire life out there, for the world to analyze. That's what I'm referring to there. But it's an excellent question and something that we do have to be aware of whenever it comes to AI.   Camille Morhardt: So just to clarify, you're saying, for example, if we're going to work on removing background noise in my audio on a video call, you can make a suggested edit to the algorithm and then send that back to the model, as opposed to sending, say, my raw audio file, which would include the specifics of my conversation?   Bob O’Donnell: That's exactly right. And so, first of all, they can do the analysis of that audio file, locally. But what they can also do is they can maybe come across a variation that occurred in your particular situation or someone else's particular situation, upload that data, in turn, refine the algorithm, and then that algorithm in turn gets re-downloaded onto your system. So it's a constantly iterating type of process. That's the ideal. We're not always, we're not quite there yet in all cases, but that's the concept is that you can get the benefits of AI, you can even get the benefits of an upgraded algorithm, without having to share too much of your own personal data.   Tom Garrison: We're starting a new segment. So you're the very first one of a brand new segment that we're doing in our podcast now. And it's basically what have you learned lately that you want to share with the podcast? Something cool, interesting. Could be something related to technology or it could be something in entertainment or something else you found intriguing and, I think, maybe our listeners might learn something from it as a result.   Bob O’Donnell: Well, I have two things and they're radically different, but I'm going to throw them out there anyway. So recently one of my personal musical heroes passed away and that was Eddie Van Halen. I discovered Van Halen--I'm showing my age here--but at a young age and he has always been an amazing rockstar and just such an icon to me. An interesting factoid that came out after his death that I never knew is that he was part Indonesian. He was actually part Asian. And he actually suffered a great deal of bigotry for being Asian. I never ever knew that. So that was an interesting little factoid, about Eddie van Halen, The other thing, and it's again, totally unrelated, one of the things I've been doing with a little extra time during the pandemic is I-- I'm a car guy and I have a few car Lego sets and I've discovered that there are lighting sets. You can put lights into your Legos. And so you can turn on the lights on your legos. It's super cool. It's a totally nerdy geeky thing that not everybody's going to appreciate, but if you're into stuff like that, there are lighting sets. Super cool!,   Tom Garrison: I, you know, I, I didn't know either of those two, but, uh, the Lego one that is a, that is intriguing. (laughs) Camille, any, uh, items you want to add?   Camille Morhardt: Okay, well, what I learned this last week, probably anybody who spends time by the ocean already knows, but, uh, I learned that the best time to boogie board is not exactly at low tide, which I had previously thought, but it's right after low tide when all the water is pushing you on shore, as opposed to dragging you out with that rip.   Bob O’Donnell: That would be an important thing to learn! (laughs)   Camille Morhardt: (laughs) Trial and error.   Bob O’Donnell: What about you Tom?   Tom Garrison: I am going to go into the world of entertainment. I'm always a big fan of these shows that I can just binge watch. And my son turned me on to a new show called “The Boys.” And let me just first tell everybody out there, do not watch this show with kids around. It is completely, completely inappropriate for kids. But it's a world where there are superheroes, but they're self-interested superheroes. They're not like the Superman or Batman that we grew up with that are all about the public good. These people are in it for themselves. And, anyway, it's, uh, it's a fascinating to me. It was a fascinating kind of re-think about the whole superhero genre thing. I think it's very well done. There's two full seasons. Now you can get on it. But anyway, Bob, thank you again for taking the time stopping by, sharing what you know about AI. It was really interesting. And I appreciate your time.   Bob O’Donnell: Well, thanks, Tom. And thanks Camille, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation.   Tom Garrison: All right. And for all of our listeners, we look forward to sharing with you the next podcast, which will come out in two more weeks and we'll see you then     Subscribe and stay tuned for the next episode of Cyber Security Inside. Follow at @tommgarrison on Twitter to continue the conversation. Thank you for listening. .    

Key Takeaways and Indicated Actions Bob Luddy is founder and CEO of CaptiveAire (CaptiveAire.com), the US market leader in commercial kitchen ventilation systems. It's a $500MM+ business with 1,000+ employees and a 40+-year success record. Bob explains to Economics tor Entrepreneurs how these principles of Austrian economics, applied as active processes, played a part. Say's Law Say's Law is a fundamental proposition in support of a production-driven market system as opposed to a consumption-driven view. It's quite difficult to interpret and pithy summaries like “production creates its own demand” and “production precedes demand” don't help entrepreneurs very much. Bob Luddy doesn't interpret, he applies. His application formula is this: new supply that is brought to market can solve problems that have not so far been solved. In that case, demand will result. He gave this example: in the 1980s, many of the harmful effluents from cooking in a restaurant were escaping into the kitchen and sometimes even into the dining room. Those effluents could contain carcinogens, and at the very least, they're very unpleasant. That was a problem – but it was the status quo. So Bob thought, in Say's Law mode: if CaptiveAire could solve that problem, and bring the solution to market at an acceptable price, demand (i.e., lots of customers) would follow. That turned out to be exactly right. Implied in this formula, of course, is attention to market signals regarding unsolved problems, a problem-solution design process, and a communications and customer interaction capability to inform the market of the new solution. Say's Law applies, but not in isolation from other entrepreneurial actions. Those actions, Bob tells us, include accuracy and completeness in solving the problem, since many competitors may be trying to address it at the same time. Small details can make a big difference in applying Say's Law. Subjective Value Many podcast listeners have asked whether the concept of subjective value — which holds that it is the subjective and emotional evaluation by customers of an entrepreneurial offering that determines its market acceptance – applies equally in B2B markets as in B2C markets. Isn't subjective value more relevant to consumers' choices of fashion and food than it is to business customers' choice of service es from vendors and suppliers? Bob's response: The subjectivity of value is very, very clear, and it's reinforced in the market every single day. He used the example of bringing an integrated ventilation system to a restaurant. CaptiveAire might be successful in explaining all of the problems it's going to solve, its sustainability, and all relevant features and functions. Completion of a sale still comes down to the user subjectively assessing the exchange value, by asking “Am I willing to pay X amount of money to solve these problems?” The customer very well could say, "No, I'd rather live with some of the problems and depart with that much money.” Bob emphasized the importance of communications in addressing the challenges raised in calibrating subjective value appraisal. A strategy of “solving all the problems” requires clear communications to the customer of how CaptiveAire solves the problems, so that the user can make a fully-informed decision. “If we don't communicate well, the value of the product in the user's mind may be lower. So part of the issue of getting a higher subjectivity of value is to have a full understanding of what the product does.” Clear communication is a component of value. Comparative Advantage There's a big difference between competitive advantage and comparative advantage. Bob explains it this way: competitive advantage lies in striving to provide the same service and same solution in a better way than a competitor. Such an advantage may be achievable from time to time, but it is temporary and quite easily taken away by a hard working competitor. The market signals are clear and unobscured, telling the competitor where they must improve and the incentives to do so are compelling. No competitive advantage is sustainable over the long term. Comparative advantage is different. It's an unmatched capability, often built over time by accumulating unique knowledge and experience and applying them in a unique capital structure. Such an advantage is longer term, maybe not absolutely invincible, but very hard to overcome. Bob cited an example outside of his field: winemaking in Napa Valley, California. “If you decided you wanted to make wine and compete with Napa Valley, it's going to be a hard way to go.” In the case of CapitveAire, “over time, we've been able to develop those design technologies, techniques, automated equipment and software, and when you marry all those things together and you integrate them, we gain a major comparative advantage. It's very hard to overcome because it's not one thing. It's many things, and they're all well thought out and have been developed over a number of years.” Bob refers to on important element of CaptiveAire's comparative advantage as “technique”. An example is “bending metal in real time and dynamically stacking it right up on the assembly line”, resulting in elimination of inventory, and very rapid turnaround time. It's CaptiveAire's unique methodology, developed over many years. Competitors can attempt to emulate but they fail. It's a comparative advantage. Opportunity Cost The cost of any choice or decision includes its opportunity cost: what option must be declined or given up in order to make the choice you prefer. Bob explains: Understanding opportunity costs means turning down opportunities that would divert resources, and, instead, focus on getting the best utilization out of your human resources possible, and making the most sustainable solutions, which are going to save time and money over a period of time. We make 10 major categories of products. No more. To keep those products at the right price, at a high level of performance and sustainability requires all of our time. So if we divert any of that time, opportunity costs might result in us failing at our most primary mission. He gave the example of a line of business that required extensive customization. The benefit of customization is that each customer feels that they enjoy unique value. The opportunity cost is that it's impossible to be all things to all people — it absorbs too much time and too many resources. CaptiveAire addressed the opportunity cost problem by replacing customization with software-enabled adjustability of certain key inputs like voltage and phase. They found that this solution could effectively address 95% of customer-requested flexibility. While competitors asked, “Just tell us what you want, we'll figure it out” and spent resources on responding, CaptiveAire was able to stay focused on its core mission and core products and services. Every opportunity that comes a firm's way must be examined through the lens of opportunity cost. Austrians see opportunity cost as an active process — the same way they see value and resource allocation and pricing and many other elements of business. Pricing Pricing is a discovery process. At the same time, it's an element of business strategy. Bob made a strategic decision at the outset to price “lower than the market,” while aiming for highest quality. The market informs CaptiveAire of what the pricing norm is, and therefore what “lower than the market” is. The discovery part is: how low to go to maximize unit sales and revenues. The second part of Austrian pricing theory is that producers choose their own costs. Bob chose to seek ways to keep costs low enough to sustain his pricing and quality strategy, which led him to the efficiencies, automation, speed, inventory-reduction, high technology, and opportunity-cost sensitivity that characterize CaptiveAire. Price, cost, and profit are integrated in a strategic formula that's tested every day by the customer's willingness to pay the price of high quality. Additional Resources "Bob Luddy's Effectuation Process" (PDF): Mises.org/E4E_84_PDF1 "Five Active And Integrated Processes Of Austrian Economics" (PDF): Mises.org/E4E_84_PDF2 Entrepreneurial Life: The Path From Startup to Market Leader by Bob Luddy: Mises.org/E4E_84_Book

Eric Rieger  0:00  Hello It is now time for the gut check project KBMD health fans and those at the Ken Brown clinic. I'm here with my guest host, Dr. Kenneth Brown. We've got an incredible special guest with us here today Dr. Tom O'Brien joins the show. Like and share of course, Dr. Brown once you take it away and introduce our awesome guests. Ken Brown  0:19  Well, I'm so excited because Dr. Tom, you and I have been running in similar circles. And every time I bump into somebody including different lab companies, including different mindshare people, everybody's like, Hey, you and Dr. Tom need to hang out. I'm like, I keep missing him. I'll go on a summit and he'll be like before me or after me. And then I'm just like, Oh, this is awesome. So we finally got you, wrangled in, you've got so much stuff going on. You're an author, you're a doctor, you obviously do some incredible deep dives. And what I love about you is everything that I've seen you on a webinar on a summit is science backed and that's exactly what we do. So I'm just thrilled I I have no agenda for this. You got a ton of information. If we ended up talking about something that I need to learn about, I'm just going to peel off and say, Wait, explain that. And that's, that's for me. So I'm not trying to question you, but like, sure, where I've read some of your stuff. And it's pretty cool. We're talking the same stuff, fix your brain through your gut, that kind of thing. That's all about us. So, welcome. So excited. Dr. Tom O'Brian  1:18  Thank you. Thank you so much. And I'm thinking a place to start if I may. The Alzheimer's Association came out last year and said one out of three elders dies with Alzheimer's or another dementia. So that means between the three of us, one of us is going down in our brain function, and it ain't gonna be me. Ken Brown  1:42  It's gonna be Eric. It's gonna be Eric.Eric Rieger  1:43   This is unfair.Dr. Tom O'Brian  1:44   I feel like I understand. But that's a reality check. And with a reality check like that, whether we like it or nobody likes to talk about brain function, no one does. You know, we all know someone that had a heart attack and survived. They changed their diet, they started exercising, they lost 25 pounds, they look better than they've looked in years. Most of us know someone diagnosed with cancer that went through the recommended protocols. And they're doing better than they've done in years. No one knows anyone diagnosed with a brain deterioration disease that's doing good. It terrifies us. And so we avoid the topic. So I want to talk about first the reality check that our healthcare system is not quite working the way we want it to and more people are getting sicker, especially if we talk about the brain and kids with autism and the numbers are skyrocketing and all that, but how can we look at our health care if our bodies aren't working the way we want them to right now? What's the big picture view of that? How do I get a big picture and I want to suggest this concept because I have found that this works really well. When I moved from Chicago to Southern California in 2010 I needed a map. How do you get from Chicago to San Diego? You need a map, you know, and I may know how to get to Denver cuz you just get on I 80 in Chicago, it takes you to Denver, right? You know, I may or it actually doesn't, it takes you close and you have to go up and 94. But I don't know how to get to San Diego, you need a map. When your body is not working the way you want it to you need a map. You can't just look for a better form of vitamin C, or what brain nutrient Can I take to help my brain function better? We have to have the map and what is the map in healthcare. The map is understanding at a layman's level, how I got to where I am and if we don't. To understand how we got to where we are right now, we are just like a dog chasing its tail trying to get somewhere else. So the question about brain dysfunction, or the question about auto immunity is, why is the immune system attacking my own tissue? Why is my brain not functioning the way it's supposed to, and you have to do a deep dive. And you don't need to be a geek and know the science because there's lots of information out there now. But we have to be willing to be uncomfortable for a little bit of time in being overwhelmed with knowledge. And we take it just one step at a time. That's why the subtitle of my most recent book, you can fix your brain. The subtitle is just one hour a week to the best memory, productivity and sleep you've ever had. And it's not cutesy subtitle It is the only way to be successful at changing the direction your brains going. Because as you learn more and more about the things that you didn't know, you mean that little bit of mold on my shower curtain there, it secretes spores into the air every time I take a shower, and I'm inhaling those spores and they go right up to my brain. And the number one type of Alzheimer's of the five types is called inhalation Alzheimer's, meaning what you're inhaling is causing the inflammation in your brain killing off brain cells. Yes, change shower curtain, you know, or whatever the trigger is. People don't know what the trigger triggers are. So they don't know what to do and they're hoping for a magic pill. You need the map. How did I get to where I am, so you then can make the corrections over six months to a year that turn your health in a new direction.Eric Rieger  6:00  I agree with that. I think that with where you're where you're beginning here in our discussion, many of the things you listed there, there's a lot to unpack, but many of the things that you listed there are, I think some huge tenants that that we discussed here on the go check project. One of those is that gut brain access, Dr. Brown talks quite a bit about the relationship for brain health and how it begins really with systemic health, which obviously originates in the gut. And then you're talking about issues of, of nerves and obviously the brain is a bundle of nerves but neural health and so what is it specifically that we need to do to protect our bodies from I would assume you're getting to long term inflammation what what the caveats are there that are initiating those inflammatory responses? So is there something that you wanted to kind of peek at there were Ken Brown  6:51  Yeah, so love where you're going with this. I'm um, as a gastroenterologist what I'm seeing is an exponential growth of autoimmune disease, Crohn's all sort of colitis are those celiac disease. Those are the ones that I deal with. And we're seeing this huge exponential growth. What you're describing is one in three people getting Alzheimers, we are seeing that autism is increasing. there's a there's a common theme here. And it's this upward hockey stick that's going on with chronic diseases. I love everywhere you're going and you I'm my bandwidth is only so large, where I have to kind of focus on how do I improve your gut to improve your brain and now you're talking other aspects. I want to get into that, but I want to know more about the guy. I'm a real big fan of how I built this. So I want to know more about the guy, the doctor Tom, how did you end up deciding that you were going to go down this path? I've heard a lot of your lectures so I know that you're super smart. I know you're very well read, but I don't know you. So let's talk about you for a moment. Dr. Tom O'Brian  7:52  Sure, sure. When I began my medical education in chiropractic school, very first week, the very first week I knew absolutely nothing. You know, we're working on a cadaver. I've just seen a dead body for the first time learning how to work with cadavers and genetics classes. There was a sign Dr. Sheldon Deal. Mr. Arizona was coming on campus to give a talk on Wednesday night. My very first week. This was the first week of January 1978. And I thought I'll go listen to this guy, Mr. Arizona bodybuilder, he's going to be a healthy guy. So I go to the talk. He has a color television on a stand in the room and back then color televisions were pretty new. And so to see all those colors, you know, he had the television on but the volume offand he walked over to a desk opened his briefcase to pick out a bar man, an iPhone, walked up to the color Television holding the iPhone like a flashlight you know policeman holds a flashlight up Hi, walks up to the color television with this bar magnet, the picture turns upside down and walks away. It goes right side up and walks towards it goes upside down. walks away it goes. Right? In attic pollution does to your brain and your nervous system. It's called neurological switching. These are people that say right, when they mean left, they write the number three backwards. they they they just are confused. And it was the first evidence in my mind the first introduction to electromagnetic pollution Ken Brown  9:51  1978 he was talking about in 1978. That's crazy.Dr. Tom O'Brian  9:55   Yes, because he he was talking he was talking about batteries in a watch and because they were fairly new, and when you put a battery next year body and this was a watch that it can for sensitive people, not for everyone but for sensitive people. It can be the straw that breaks the camel's back. And it impacts on their neurological organization, and how their their brain and their nervous system functions. Nowadays, we take it for granted Of course, we wear watches with batteries, and we put ear pods and our years we put batteries next to our brain. And, you know, we're using headphones that are remote wireless, so more batteries next to the brain. You know, I'm a strong advocate that we never put a cell phone next to our head. You either use the speaker or you use a corded earphones so that you're not putting especially for children whose skulls are thinner and these electric magnetic waves penetrate through a thinner skull of a child. And now there are so many studies on that. That's why in the book, you can fix your brain. I talked about the pyramid of health. Remember, we're still looking for a map here. How did I get to where I am? So in a pyramid, we think there's three sides to a pyramid. No, there's four. There's also a base. So the base is structure. That's the home of chiropractic and osteopathy, and massage and pillows and orthotics in your shoes and is your car seat tilted back. So you're driving like this all the time. That's, that's structured the base, then there's the biochemistry, the one that we all know about. And that's what we eat and drink the air we breathe. Then there's the spiritual or emotional and then there's the electromagnetic. So whenever you have a health concern, you have to look at all four venues to see, where are the triggers that are contributing to my body not functioning the way it should. So that was my introduction in January of 1978, to healthcare. And from that, I started looking in the literature and I found some children living within a quarter mile of high power tension wires had higher incidences of leukemia. That was 1979. I think I found that first study. And by the early 80s, mid 80s, there are many studies coming out about high power tension wires, and people's health if they live near that. So that validated for me, that for some people, electromagnetic pollution was a problem. Not for everybody, but for some people. And the same is true about structure. For some people. That's the problem. For some people, it's stinking thinking, the emotional or spiritual side and You can see the studies on stress hormones inflaming or triggering type one diabetes and triggering autoimmune diseases was what we think that or how we respond to stress and the hormones we make that set that up. For some people. That's the trigger. It's all about finding the map. So my entire career has been based on always asking my first mentor, no, my second mentor. My second mentor was Dr. George Goodheart, the founder of applied kinesiology, the muscle testing that some doctors have seen. Practice night have hundreds and hundreds of hours with Dr. George and he would always every weekend in our seminars, and usually they were at the Marriott Hotel at the airport in Detroit. So people fly in from all over the world to listen to Dr. George and the the podium that he's stood on was a wood podium. And he would do this all the time. He would say, lift up his right knee and his right arm and go, Why doctor and slam his foot down really hard. So we all kind of jumped in our seats now, because that would stage would just like bounce a little bit. Why do they have what they have? Why is your patient complaining of dot dot dot? And he would consistently drill into us Why? So my entire career has been based on why is that happening? You know, for example, why is it? We've all heard that it takes 20 minutes before the hormones in your gut. Tell your brain that you've eaten enough? How come you don't feel full right away with the volume of food you take in? How come you have you eat a little bit more and they say, Oh, I'm really full. How come that messaging is delay. I don't really know. But doctor Ken , you might, you know, we could have some discussion about this. I just made this up. But I think it's because we have the same body as our ancestors thousands and thousands of years ago, bodies function exactly the same. And a primary concern for our ancestors was getting enough food. They didn't get three meals a day, they ate when they found food. So even when they're full, maybe they should eat a little bit more because they might not get it next time. And so they get an extra few 15-20 minutes of eating the berries or eating the nuts or a little more meat on a harvest they made because they might not get a meal for a day or two. And I'm just making it up as to why I've never seen anyone write about why that is that that happens. But that's that was my thought about it, but always why. So I've been asking why my entire career.Ken Brown  16:01  So the why this is really interesting. So the when was 1978? The How is these mentors that have come to you? And then the Why is how do I do this? So then the how I built this, where did you go from? Okay? I am learning a lot from these experts, I have decided to shift my career focus and put in you've put a ton of time into developing summits into writing books into I mean, your your website is just got blogs that are just stacks and stacks deep. So when did you make this decision to go, I'm going to really commit to this aspect. And I'm going to become a thought leader and a teacher about these kind of things. Because clearly, you're passionate. But the as, as a physician myself, it's finding that time it's saying I'm going to take this, this leap off this dock, say I'm going to commit to this. I feel so strongly about it that I'm willing to put myself out there.Dr. Tom O'Brian  17:01  My third mentor was Dr. Jeffrey Bland. Who I heard Dr. Bland first talk in Chicago in 1978. And he is the Science Guy. Ken Brown  17:15  78 was a big year for you.Dr. Tom O'Brian  17:16   It was a big year. It was a very big year, married in 77. Went to school graduate school in 78. met these incredible mentors. You know, I think my angels just guided me to these guys. It was unbelievable. And but Dr. bland would say now this doctor in the New England Journal of Medicine said this and oh here three years ago, in the British Medical Journal, they said this and right here last week in the Journal of American Medical Association, they've said this, do you see how these pieces come together? And Dr. bland has always been about asking why and understanding at a deeper level why things can occur from a science level. So Dr. Goodhart was all about clinicians and being a clinician and finding out how things work. And sometimes he made up the reasons because he wasn't as much of a science guy, as Dr. bland. so bland is talking why from the science goodheart is talking why from the results. And so what happened? Was I just with every patient, I just kept looking to see, why is that happening? Or if they're not getting the results that I think they should have gotten? Why is that not happening? What am I missing here? What am I missing? And so I kept I keep looking and looking and looking. I'm not content when they feel better. And I mean this with the greatest of respect, I don't really care how they feel. They don't come. They come to me because of how they feel. But they're really coming to me to have their bodies function better so they live a long and vital life and how they feel is transient. So whether I get them feeling better right away is secondary to identifying the mechanism behind why their body's not functioning properly, Ken Brown  19:11  love how you said that, so that how they feel is transient. And the first thing I thought of is how many people come to me. And they're on multiple anxiolytics and multiple antidepressants, right? And I read the notes from the other doctors and they're like patient reports of feeling less anxious. Plus, check. Beautiful, there it is. But now I'm dealing with side effects of eight different drugs. And so I like how you said that how you feel is transient. I need to know why. I love Dr. Tom O'Brian  19:38  Yeah, yeah, and of course, all of these drugs, the antidepressants, the anti anxiolytics. They're all approved and designed to be used for a short period of time. None of them are approved for the rest of your life. But they're given to people so they continue to feel less symptoms. Ken Brown  19:56  They're approved to be given for short periods of time, but the pharmaceutical and I'm not passing the pharmaceutical industry. Many of these drugs if you try and get off of them create a tremendous amount of their own side effects. So knowing that, so Eric Eric's former life, the way that he paid for his crna school was actually as a drug Rep. So he's got some pretty interesting stories about how to make sure that you move some product.Eric Rieger  20:19   Yeah, no comment, but I don't work there anymore. So that's probably the most important takeaway. No, but I do agree with that. And I do think Dr. Tom, one of the biggest issues that I never liked about certain aspects of pharmaceuticals, which were intended for short term, to become long term is they're missing a very, very important piece. Once I've taken this to alleviate whatever the symptom or the feel, as you put it, there's no exit strategy. There's no way for me to break this dependency that I've now formulated to make me now feel this new normal. And that's, that's something to fear. I would, I think, to engage long term with a pharmaceutical that's just simply going to function as a feeling band aid. is taking care of the issue.Dr. Tom O'Brian  21:02  You're absolutely right. You know, and we've got so many cases of people on high blood pressure medication or on antidepressants. And we always say at the very beginning, now look, here's what's going to happen. There are some side effects to the medications you're taking. And you may have heard some, but I'm just want to make sure you know, these are the potential side effects. But we're going to address why your body has high blood pressure right now. So it's great to be taking these medications. You absolutely take them when you need them, and you need them right now. But as we address the underlying why your need for those medications is likely to go down, which means you're going to stand up and you're going to start getting dizzy because your blood pressure is too low, because you've got too much medication now. So I want you to call your cardiologist or the doctor who put you on that medication as soon as you start noticing any symptoms like this, this, this or this and say, Hey, I'd like to come in, and you come in and you say, you know, I'm getting a little lightheaded when I stand up now, and I never did before, but I've changed my diet. I'm exercising, I think I need less medication. Can you monitor me and we meet down when you think it's appropriate and safe. But just gradually wean me down so that I don't have any complications as my body's getting healthier. And every doctor is willing to do that every doctor and if they're not find a new doctor to monitor your medications.Ken Brown  22:36  So I'll stop you right there. And this is more for teaching me and with your style of practice. You have somebody that comes in you know that they've got the diabesity triad or whatever. And you look at them you go Okay, we need to start someplace. Do you start diet do you start environmental toxin do you start sleep, because I think those are kind of the three pillars might leave least knowledgeable aspect of that is environmental toxin because it's just something that I've not gotten into yet. And when you mentioned the breathing in the spores, I'm like, Yeah, I've got a lot of patients that got really sick when they moved into an older home and they renovated and then they've never been right. Since I've definitely believe that mold has a big role, but it's just the amount of time. So when you look at this, I'm challenging you to say this is where I start first, where is it? Dr. Tom O'Brian  23:25  Really easy, really easy. There is a great program that's been developed called the living matrix. And the living matrix is a, I don't know 30-40 page questionnaires. And it's going to take you, Mrs. patient, it's going to take you a day or two to fill this out. You'll come back to it and fill out some more of it. Someone's going to say how is the health of your mother during your pregnant pregnancy with you? And he will say, Oh, I don't know my mother passed. That's all right. Call your aunts. Call your aunts and find out. Did mom take any medications during the pregnancy with me, you get as much information as you can, and when you have a completed living matrix, this is the computer model, the program sets it off into eight different categories. And it becomes obvious which categories are the most out of balance. And that's usually the place that you start. And we'll start with maybe two or three of those categories, depending on the individual. Some people, it's clear, their auto immunity happened within three months of their divorce, or within three months of being sexually abused. And it's clear, they've got to deal with that energy. And so that person needs to include in their protocol, a therapist that they feel really good working with about this particular topic, because that's not my category. But if it's not address, it's going to thwart the progress radically. Ken Brown  24:59  That is so interesting. That's that insult to injury that I have to have that discussion with so many patients where I have somebody that comes to see me and they're like, yeah, it's unfortunate. I went to this horrible divorce. And then I started bleeding out my rectum and then I diagnosed them with raging ulcerative colitis. So like, what is the bad luck? I'm like, I hate to attribute it to bad luck. I attribute it to a sequence of events. Dr. Tom O'Brian  25:22  Yeah, exactly. Right. I agree. Yeah, that is totally agree fully agree. And and the tool called the living matrix of every patient fills that out. I have lots of people, you know, we we did a docu series called betrayal, the autoimmune disease solution. They're not telling you is that out yet? Okay. It is it is. And we've actually had over 600,000 people watch it. When I make the living matrix available to people and I think probably four to 6000 people have filled it out. You know, it's great because it's hard to read until you understand how it works, but it gives you a lot of information. And all of our patients fill it out before I'll ever see them if they don't fill it out, or they fill it out halfway. I don't see them. If I if I see that it's only half done. I call my staff because I'm virtual now, you know, so I do virtual consultations. But as I'm looking at the results here, and I'm looking at the screen and living matrix, you know, if it's not filled out, I call my staff and I say rescheduled or they put the time and I'm not putting the time in until they do if they do it half ass, I'm not going to do it half ass, and so cancel them, and don't charge them just cancel them. And if they want to come back, do it right. You know, you just don't put up with that. And I talk on stage all the time to doctors. You can't put up with someone who's putting their toe in the water. They're either going to do a deep dive with you, whatever your skill set is or they're not and in our practice, we represent that our goal is to help them see the map of what's happened to them. And so if they can't, they can't see the map. If I don't know the history, it's not possible.Eric Rieger  27:16  Well, that's actually pretty, pretty impressive because in a different in a different way when we've had patients who've come through the clinic, and then we've, we've prepped them to, to scope and I'm addressing anesthesia and of course, Dr. Ken over here is discussing with them what to expect as they continue on their journey. Something I've heard him address is, it doesn't matter necessarily what led to where you are right now, whether it be your fault and all of them or none of them. But it is your responsibility to engage with the change that's going to make you better. And you've had that conversation with with plenty of patients and it really just doesn't matter what to this point we can identify the triggers, which of course helps finding the solution. But ultimately, there's going to be self responsibility for one's own health. And you've got to be able to commit to whatever that change happens to be. And I would say that really the the gut check project that this whole the whole reason for this podcast was, we felt that there are better solutions than just taking the old didactics from the pharmaceutical industry and antiquated medic medical school iidx to solve problems. Mother Nature has lots and lots and lots of tools that we don't all, you know, use which are free available. And if you just have the discipline to stick with it for your own interest, you'll find in most cases, a better health, healthy living style, I guess you could say, Dr. Tom O'Brian  28:48  well, you guys are in a unique situation that you have to do the tests to identify where they're currently at. You've got to be able to clearly say you've got ulcerative colitis, it's at this stage and it's in this area of your colon and Okay, so we need to calm down this fire, calm down this inflammation while we look to see where it came from. So you you guys have both areas that you have to address and I do this on stage a lot and you know doctors laugh at it, but I've had a number of people come back to me years later and thanked me that they implemented this. When I I tell patients that my favorite patients are the ones that say I've been to Mayo Clinic and they don't know what's wrong. And I'll say that's great. Congratulations. And they look at me kind of startled. You know, they heard I'm a nutcase. But Congratulations, that means you don't have a disease. Because if you've got a disease, Mayo Clinic would find it. You've got dysfunction, something's not functioning right. So the test we're going to do or not the same test that we're looking for disease, we're going to do functional tests. And I hope that we find some functional tests, and people will and sometimes their insurance won't pay for it. And then some patients will say, Well, I can't afford that. And I say, Okay. Oh, okay. And then I write down in their file. Patient refuses this recommended test due to finances? And please sign this. Well, why? Why would I sign that? Because you're asking me to work with one hand behind my back. And I'm going to do everything I can to be of service to you. I will do my very best, but I'm not responsible anymore. If a problem occurs that I miss something, because well, no, no, that's okay, Doc, I'll sign it. Okay. Or no, no, no, I'll do the test. I'll do the test. Okay, good. Because I've seen so many people that say I can afford it. And two months later, I see him in the shopping they've got a deep tan because they just spent three weeks in Mexico, on vacation. It's just a priority thing. And if someone really can't afford what they need, well, our services will always reduce our services for finances if it's true, but we need patients to take ownership and responsibility to be actively involved with us. as we're going through this process. Ken Brown  31:28  When you started this, you open with Alzheimer's and it's funny because I kind of do that with my patients where you said that one in three people will now develop Alzheimer's. And then you tell me Alzheimers Association says that Alzheimers Association, so and then you talk about a patient that cannot afford to do X, Y and Z but you see them with a deep tan. So I use the let's fix your gut to protect your brain later in life. Because I'm I personally and I try and teach my kids this. I've got a 15 year old, a 13 year old. And my wife and I are on the same page where I personally prefer to purchase memories, as opposed to things. So I'm perfectly willing to take us on a trip, have some incredible meals, have some great pictures that we'll revisit. And rather than purchase something else, and what I mean by that is what is that memory worth? That memory is worth so much more than that object to me. And then if you were to say that I'm going to take away all those memories, meaning I'm going to take away your life, that's the panic moment with me, that's when I want to sit there and say, I want you to change your diet, I want you to change your lifestyle, not even so much is it so much a physical thing. It's not so much so that you can have the Beachbody, it's not so much you can do this. It's so that we protect your brain later. It's so that the same concept of osteoporosis prevention in your 30s so that we're not dealing with it and you're 60 so you're not busting a hip in your late 60s. And then now thing, what you're talking about, it's so true that you, it's hard to get people to think big picture like that. But you've always done this. So 1978 you have these mentors that do this. When did you decide to really say I'm going to be part of the movement? And I'm going to develop this website? I'm going to spend, I mean, you've been prolific. You've written books, you lectured you do some crazy summits. Man, you're gluten summit. Some of the people you have on that are like my heroes. I mean, Alessio Fasano, I mean, I've been following that cat since you know, early on in his career and a lot of you get some some pretty heavy hitters. That's pretty impressive. How did you go from, I now need to make a difference. On a greater scale, I guess is what I'm saying. You've mentioned multiple stages and stuff like that. When did you go it's less from one to one it's more from one to many.Dr. Tom O'Brian  33:53  January 2013 my friend, I think our friend I believe, you know, JJ Virgin. I've known JJ for many, many years. And she used to call me or I'd see her and she said, I just went to this weekend seminar was fabulous. You know, they're talking about this marketing concept of how to get information out to people in sales. He she said, You should come and say, Oh, yeah, thanks. Thanks. And then she hired a consultant, Allie, and he called me and said, I just signed the contract and I'm working with Allie. I'm gonna learn how to do this at a bigger scale. Come do it with me. Yeah, how much? $10,000 it ain't happening here. It ain't happening. Right. And then JJ grew and she grew. She applied to Princeton. Ken Brown  34:45  JJ is pretty convincing. when she gets passionate predicaments. Dr. Tom O'Brian  34:49  Yeah. And then she called me and said, Look, I'm having a seminar. I'm having I'm hosting a seminar, you're going to be there. I'm going to hire somebody to come grab you by the nape of your neck and bring okay, okay. Okay, welcome. So this is January 2013, dropped my jaw to hear how the participants there would do one thing that they prepare a webinar or something. And they would have 200 people attend, or 400 people attend just drop my jaw of the impact factor that was magnified by learning how to use the internet. And so I made a declaration that weekend. I said, you know, I'm a geek, and I just read a lot of science and I know these guys are I've been in their seminars where I've seen them at symposiums. I'm going to interview a number of geeks from around the world. And I'm going to put it online. Would you everyone here in the audience helps support me in this by send out announcements. And they all said yes. So my first interview, you'll really appreciate this Dr. Ken. My very first interview ever was Professor Michael Marsh, and our the marsh Godfather, the Godfather, celiac Marsh one Marsh to Marsh three, the Godfather, and he and no one had ever interviewed him. He was 74 no one had ever interviewed and he took me by the arm and walked me around Oxford and said, Tom, that's, that's right, right where I stood, and that and I received my medical degree in 1962. So that's great professor or took me down in the bowels of the library from the 1800s and that's where he sat to study every day. And you know, so Marsh, the Godfather and Professor Fasano, Harvard and so many others from around the world. Umberto Volta chairs the celiac Society of Italy. And I interviewed all these people. And everyone who's a JJ's event, sent announcements out to their people. We had 118,000 people attend Luton summit in November of 2013. It was the first online. The first online health summit ever was the gluten summit. And we made it up. Ken Brown  37:25  And that was when 2000 what? Dr. Tom O'Brian  37:27  November 2013. Ken Brown  37:30  I mean, thousand of those people were still doing dial up. Yeah.Dr. Tom O'Brian  37:35  That's right, you know, and the weekend I came back from making that declaration, I mean, I was fired up. I get a message. And this guy emails me and says, Hi, my name is Bob Roth. I am the social media director for the University of Chicago celiac center, and I'm out in California. I'm wondering if you did have time for breakfast, and I said, You i'm sure so we had breakfast and Bob said, you know, Dr. O'Brien, everyone's University Chicago thinks you're a nutcase. You talk about you talk about gluten sensitivity outside of celiac disease. And but I watched one of your presentations was recorded, and you're just talking science. I said, Yes. You said, you're actually correct. And I said, I know. I know. He's and I said, Listen, Bob, I just made this declaration. I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to travel the world. I'm going to interview these guys. I know who to interview. And I'm going to interview them. We're going to put it together and we're going to do this thing online. Come join us. So Bob left the University of Chicago celiac center, and came to Southern California and was our social media person. And then we found a guy to who knew how to run this program I learned about in jjs weekend called InfusionSoft, which puts puts all the data together into one package and sends it online. And we hired Bobby from Tennessee. And we put on the gluten summit. And the next day, I mean, so many of my friends call him said, How did you do that? What did you do people like Deanna Minik and Mark Hyman and so many other my friends, how did you do that? And I said, Well, my friends helped me here. And they said, Oh, can can are my staff and we just made it up. When there was a problem. We made it up. And they said, can I talk to your staff. And I said, Sure. Then my staff came to me and said, Hey, Doc, they they want us to do this for them. We should start a company to do this. And I know man, that's not my thing. That's not my passion. You guys go ahead if you want to. That was the formation of health talks online which is hosted 10s of millions of people in the last seven years in different summits all over the world, they of course, that's where it came from.Eric Rieger  40:09  Sorry about that. I didn't mean to talk over you. But of course, you wanted to have people that were interested in what it was that you were offering. You also find some inspiration in the fact that there were that many like minded people who were essentially as you probably assumed, but now you confirm they're kind of starved for that information.Dr. Tom O'Brian  40:27  Oh, I knew I knew from the day I opened my practice about the frequency of weed related disorders outside of celiac disease. I knew it. The testing was just not accurate enough at the time to confirm it. But I put people on gluten free diets and they get better again and again and again. But it was a component of a treatment program, not just gluten free diet, but it was a prerequisite you have to do that. Sure, guys, I see that the battery on my computer's at 5%. I have to run into the other room and get the charger So I'm going to come right back to you. SoKen Brown  41:04  we're gonna love this. I love this conversation. So what's really cool about Dr. Tom is just how honest he's being. He's just like, Hey, I met this guy. He taught me something. I met this other guy. He taught me something, I met this, JJ comes up to me and says, Hey, come over and do this, and just pulls the trigger and says, I have a message that I interview out there. And the digital marketing era was really in full swing. Right then.Eric Rieger  41:30  the thing I felt the reason why I asked Darshan that last question was, to me it was it was eye opening, even when we met JJ is just seeing how many people were now gaining access to topics that simply were not being addressed when when we were young, or going through school, etc. And basically what I feel like Dr. Tom just illustrated here is technology has allowed us to take what has been either ignored or hidden messages out to the masses and then helping people where they couldn't find help before. Ken Brown  41:59  Yeah. Are you back with a Tom?Dr. Tom O'Brian  42:02  I'm back with you. And as, as, as you were talking about technology absolutely correct, you know, for years and years that they thought I was a nutcase because I would talk about wheat related disorders outside of celiac. And now we have the testing available that's very, very accurate 97 to 99%, sensitive and specific. And so with those kinds of tests, the test is called the wheat Zoomer, could you zoom in on problem? And with those kinds of testing, people see for themselves that their immune system is trying to protect them, whether they get sick when they eat it or not.Ken Brown  42:43  So you've said this three times now, which means that it has clearly been a part of your career you said they said I'm a nutcase. They said I'm a nutcase. They knew I was a nutcase. So you've stuck by this, but will you explain a little bit when you say that, they say I was a nutcase. That meant that as a chiropractor discussing these other aspects infringing on people's territory, was it that you were just so far ahead of the curve that nobody was discussing? I want to know why you feel why you Dr. Tom feels that other people viewed you as a nutcase?Dr. Tom O'Brian  43:20  Oh, it was obvious. It was spoken about. But the the point in that is, you know, when when you know, that science is on your side, but technology just hasn't caught up yet to confirm it. And you know, it's on your side, because you see the results again, and again, and again and again, and you keep seeing the results, but you the technology just hadn't caught up yet. Then either you go by the status quo, with all of these unexplained applications, and people Don't get well, they're the way they're supposed to, or are you willing to break new ground and say, you know, oh, no, as is negative, when they give up wheat, they feel so much better. Why don't you try it for three weeks, and let's see what happens. Well then, and they get better. Their their child's attention deficit gets better. And the teacher say the new drug, you've given your child's working really well. And it was just a gluten free diet. The other parents say, Oh, we, we didn't give them any drugs. So he's on a gluten free diet. And you see that again and again and again. I can't let what other people think of me get in the way of the service that I can do for my patients.Ken Brown  44:50  Because you took a really bold let's, let's dissect what you just set about that. You knew that certain people in health care, we're not saying the nicest things about you. And then you dove in when you said I don't want to treat a patient that just sticks their toe in the water, you dove into a digital marketing world where keyboard warriors love to play also. So you went from I know that some people are going to say not nice things, too, I'm going to embrace it on a level that nobody ever has. And I'm gonna teach online, which is a very, very bold thing, because not a lot of people have the guts to do that right. To be pushing the envelope. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, you talk about I've been talking about zonulin for years before we test it. And you said we'd Zoomer and that's how I got involved with vibrant wellness. I was like, Ah, you guys figured out how to check zonulin? Yes,Dr. Tom O'Brian  45:49  yes, yes.Ken Brown  45:51  Yeah. And when I talked to my colleagues, I mean, even when I talked to gastroenterologists, they looked at me like you're What are you? Are you one of those? nutjobs talking leaky gut. You're one of those weirdos talking gluten sensitivity. Um, you know, fortunately, I fortunately did not discover the internet early enough so I didn't have to put myself out there and have a successful career writing books and doing stuff like that. Fortunately, I still have to stick my finger in people's butts to make a living and occasionally interview somebody who's smarter than me that decided to put it out there on the internet and do things and do summit so that's a but it takes guts to do that. So are you there. Dr. Tom?Eric Rieger  46:35  Did he freezeDr. Tom O'Brian  46:37  sn Ken Brown  46:38  you froze there for a little bit.Eric Rieger  46:41  We can hear you. Okay. You guys go. How about that?Ken Brown  46:45  Okay. There we go. Okay, back now.Dr. Tom O'Brian  46:47  Okay. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, you're absolutely right. You know, you asked me why and how did I do this? A home that I have in every one of treatment rooms. Can Can you hear me? Okay?Ken Brown  47:13  Yeah, you're going in and out a little bit, but I think it's all right. Oh, we should go ahead and muscle through it. That's right.Dr. Tom O'Brian  47:19  Okay, okay. There's a poem that I when I read it I just resonated deep deep in my being. It's by George Bernard Shaw. This is the true joy in life, being used for purpose recognized as the Mighty One. The being a force of nature. Instead of a selfish, feverish little clod of ailments and grievances complaining The world will not devote itself to making you happy. I am of the opinion that my life belongs to the whole and it is my privilege to do for whatever I can, life is no brief candle to me. It's sort of a splendid torch that I have a hold up for the moment and want to make burn as brightly as possible before passing it on to future generations. So that's my creed.Ken Brown  48:18  I love it. I love it. It's awesome.Dr. Tom O'Brian  48:20  And and from that place, if you know about zonulin, and you know about leaky gut and you think a patient's got it and you don't address it, because of what our peers may think, in my mind, it's Shame on you. And I do that on stage with doctors all the time, who cares what your peers think? I'll give you an example of that one, and you'll appreciate this one 1986 Australia. gastroenterologist says, You know, I think that sometimes ulcers are caused by a batch said you are a nutcase. Everybody knows ulcers are caused by too much acid and you have to give antacids so what did this guy do? He does an endoscopy, puts a camera down into his stomach takes pictures of the healthy pink tissue of his stomach. And then he drinks a beaker of beaker of a bacteria called Helio backer pylori. waits for days until he's as sick as can be, does another endoscopy takes pictures of the many ulcers that are starting in his stomach, and then he takes the antibiotics to kill the bacteria waits about a week until he's feeling better, does another picture of the healing of the ulcers. Then he publishes that paper, then everybody knows he's a nutcase. But he proved the under shadow of a doubt sometimes, ulcers are caused by a bacteria and the World Health or I thought that was so important. They sent that paper to every medical society on the planet. Why? Because at that time, stomach cancer was the number one cancer killing people. And it often comes from a helium backdoor infection. So, this guy didn't care. You know, he didn't care. He done his work, and he still was kind of thought of as a weirdo out there. Dr. Barry Marshall. 21 years later, he wins a Nobel Prize in Physiology. And the Nobel committee says and this is the exact quote, who with tenacity, and a prepared mind challenged prevailing dogma and that's what every one of our patients needs.Ken Brown  50:49  a prepared mind. I like that exact word mind if you if you're tenacious, but you do your homework, you burn the midnight oil, the prepared mind with tenacity is an unstoppable force. That's awesome. That's love thatDr. Tom O'Brian  51:05  is just one hour a week. That's tenacity every Tuesday night after dinner every Sunday morning after services whenever it is, but every week, you're going to spend one hour learning more about reading the map of how you got to where you are just one hour a week. And in six months, you've changed the way you think you change the way you live your life. You challenge prevailing dogma, and your health is the benefit that you get from it.Eric Rieger  51:34  I love that. Ken Brown  51:35  I love it. IEric Rieger  51:36  mean, it's interesting that you use Marsh as that example, because when this guy sitting to the right of me developed Atrantil and went on to talk about why polyphenols are so incredibly important. I guess we're going on six years ago now. He used that example. And that it's okay to think outside of the box which is essentially what he was saying to challenge dogma is to go outside of this box that we have built around ourselves. If it weren't for someone venturing outside, we never would have made innovation. Ken Brown  52:08  And the beauty of the technology that has allowed you to have this stage where 600,000 people sign up for summon at one time, also allows us to share globally information in a way that we couldn't before. So when I sit there and meet with some of my colleagues, and they're like, oh, there's no science on that. I'm like, Oh, really, let me pull up my Mendeley account. Really, here's 8000 articles on what we're talking about. Why don't you start reading that and when in my world traditional medicine world especially in Texas, I think that different states a little more progressive, like California has always been a little more open to the functional medicine side but Texas, not so much coming around. But when the drug rep to my left over here when doctors say there's no science on that what they're saying is somebody is not brought me lunch with a detailed piece explaining what I'm supposed to say. That's really what I'm saying. And we're all really busy. And that is what it is. But it just happens to be just like you. You go, um, you know, I'm tenacious, but I'm armed with science, therefore, I can walk into this battlefield and hold down, even if they even if they call me crazy.Dr. Tom O'Brian  53:17  Yeah, cuz that's exactly right. Last week I did an interview for a neuro psychiatric psychiatry group. And the doctor who coordinated the interview, she said, you know, Dr. Brian, I heard you speak three years ago at our conference, and you yelled at us on stage. No one's ever yelled,at us on stage before your neuropsychiatrist they're the cream of the crop in their own mind. You know, they're legends in their own mind. Right. AndKen Brown  53:48  voices in their heads.Dr. Tom O'Brian  53:50  Yes, right. Good, catch. Good, good. But what I said to them if you aren't spending one hour a week, reading the current literature Cutting Edge literature in your field of expertise, shame on you. You're outdated, one hour a week. And nobody's got time for any of this. But if you don't do that you're outdated within a year. Yeah. And, and she thanked me. She said, You know, I took what you said to heart because it made sense. I didn't like how you said it, but I liked what you said. And the result is I've completely changed my practice in three years. Thank you so much. I really want to acknowledge you here on the microphone in front of all of my colleagues, that was such an excellent recommendation to us and i and i say that to everyone. Whether you're a general public, or a health care practitioner, one hour a week. That's what it takes to have 10 that's tenacity and then prepare your mind to challenge the way you think so that you can read the map of what's happened to your body so far,Eric Rieger  54:58  don't you one of the reasons why really enjoy doing our show is that I'm a better doctor because of it because I prepare for different things because I have to research a lot of stuff. When we talk about topics. You're the exact same way you have gone. You started with the gluten and the you went to the brain. You're looking at this now you've got different you've got the whole erm. Dr. Tom O'Brian  55:20  bottle immunityKen Brown  55:21  Yeah, but what's the name of the of the program again?Eric Rieger  55:25  betrayal, Ken Brown  55:26  betrayal, betrayal. Yeah, I was I was trying to think of that. So when you do that you automatically your passion will have you read this. So I'm going to ask for your help. Maybe it's not you. Maybe it's some other people that you meet, but we're running into something. So when I say my Mandalay account, I have a graduate student that I work with and she finds everything If you need anything, let me know just email me She will find it and get the articles and so we can sit there and look at some of this but I'm seeing something and I think that you're probably seeing it also and it is This weird it becomes down to a nerve, dysautonomia motility type situation that can be the underlying cause of a lot of gastrointestinal issues which then lead to neuro inflammation. And now we're getting to the vagus nerve and we're talking about this I've got some really sick people that come to me and they're they've all been to the Mayo Clinic they've all been to the Cleveland Clinic and they all have been told that it's functional this and that, that it's in their head and they all say you should start taking Prozac but these are really intelligent people really type a people that had very successful their attorneys or accountants and this and that. I'm seeing a trend here that the chronic disease is affecting the nerves that is it acetylcholine Do we need to start working on the you know, the, the vagus nerve, I don't know. But I it just feels like more and more people are showing up there. They're really trying what's your what's your take on that? Because if we can figure this out. That's it.Dr. Tom O'Brian  57:00  This is this is a PhD discussion that we're now getting into that is at the core of the answer to your question. Arguably the number one journal in the English language for children's health is the journal Pediatrics put out by the American Academy of Pediatrics. They published a policy statement, which means it's not an author, you know, if I were to get an article published in pediatrics as an author, I've scored top tier difficult journal to get into I've really scored but this is a policy statement. That means it came from the board of the Academy of the American Academy of Pediatrics, and they said the toxic substance Control Act failed miserably to protect our children and princes and adults. And it is The governing legislation at the federal level for all chemicals introduced into our environment. This was passed in 1976. It's still the regulating guidelines for all chemicals introduced into our environment. It the the guidelines are so cumbersome, that in 40 years, they've only regulated five chemicals or classes of chemicals in 40 years. Because the lobbyists were so successful in paying off the senators and the representatives to pass this legislation that has no teeth. The legislation says you have to show that the amount of whatever chemical a person is exposed to is toxic to them. When you pump gas and fill your tank with gas, can you sometimes smell the gas? Sure, of course. you're smelling benzene,Ken Brown  59:09  right? Oh, yes.Dr. Tom O'Brian  59:10  Benzene going up your olfactory nerves right into the brain triggering inflammation killing off brain cells right now. Right? It's killing brain cells. But there's no evidence that the amount of benzene it's inhaled while pumping gas is toxic to humans. There's no evidence you can't. There's no evidence that it causes a problem. But give me 30 years of smelling benzene once a week and how many millions of cells you've killed off. I'm warming up now. 2017. papers published that came out of Chicago 346 pregnant women and the eighth month of pregnancy They did urine analysis they measured Phthalates five Phthalates Phthalates are chemicals used to mold plastic. Most of us have heard of Bisphenol A or BPA Corona is one of the chemicals. They measured five chemicals. There are hundreds of chemicals but they just measured five. they categorize the results into quartiles, the lowest, the next, the third and the highest quartile. They then follow the offspring of those pregnancies for seven years. When the kids turned seven years old, they did Wechsler IQ tests on the official IQ test. There's not much in medicine, that's all or every This was every every child whose mother was in the highest quartile of Phthalates eats and urine and pregnancy compared to the children in the lowest quartile of Phthalates and urine and pregnancy. Every child in the highest score tile, their IQ was seven points lower than the kids in The lowest quartile of Phthalates seven points. That doesn't mean anything to anyone until you understand one point difference is noticeable. A seven point difference is a difference between a child working really hard getting straight A's, and a child working really hard, getting straight C's, right this kid in hell because his brain never developed properly. And then just go to Google and type in Phthalates and neurogenesis, nerve growth. Here come all the studies, how balades inhibit nerve growth. And you see this and you wonder why Autism is going up and attention deficit is going up. You see this and then you go back to the pediatrics article and you read that is 247 pounds of chemicals manufactured or imported into the US United States every day for every person in America 247 pounds, that's 27 trillion pounds a year, take the population of the US multiplied by 247 times 365 days, it's 27 trillion pounds.Every newborn child in America has at least 200 chemicals in their bloodstream at birth that aren't supposed to be there. Many of them are neurotoxins, brain time. You wonder why we're seeing this increase in disease. We all are walking sewage dumps, excuse me, but we are we all are because it's in the air. You if you sit in a room and you can see the sunlight coming through the window, sometimes the right time of day the angle and you see little dust in the air. That's what you're breathing. That dust is the family lychee From the plastic lines in the windows, they leach out family chemicals into the air for years. It's the scotch guard on the sofa, leaching out those chemicals into the air for years. It's the formaldehyde in the kitchen cabinets. If they're not solid wood, they're pressboard. They're soaked in formaldehyde, and the bathroom cabinets leaching out into the air for years. And we were exposed to all of this, all of that and we're walking sewage dumps. You wonder why degenerative diseases are going, why Alzheimer's and the number one type of Alzheimer's is inhalational Alzheimer's, it's what's your breathing. This is so overwhelming for people. When you get when you look at this map. When you see what's happening. It is so overwhelming. That's why you have to operate from the platform of one hour a week. Yes, because and so one week When you learn that the leftover chicken from dinner, you put it in a plastic storage container in the refrigerator. The next day the chickens got phalates in it from the plastic. When you learn that one week, you take that hour you go into my book and there's the three URLs to order glass storage containers, and you go to miles, kimball.com and Amazon, whatever the third was, Oh, I like those. And yours three round ones in two square ones and one for the eyes. You pay with your credit card, you hit send, it took an hour, you're done for the week. Like that. Never again, will you poison your family with minute amounts of foul aids from leftover food in a plastic storage container. Now, there's no evidence that the amount of families that leach out of plastic storage containers is toxic to humans. That's how they get away with that crap it is. That's how they've gotten away with it. And it's the it's the The indoor and just read the science indoor air pollution is much worse than outdoor air pollution in most areas of the country. Because we don't think about our homes we don't think about the formaldehyde, the benzene, trichloroethylene that we're inhaling, then you go to my book and there's the study with the graph that the study from NASA that shows to six inch house plants, and there's the list of all the house plants that do it to six inch house plants and a 10 by 10 room absorbs up to 70% of the toxic chemicals in the air.Ken Brown  1:05:37  warmer times. This is the front so now you're scaring the snot out of me, but now you're giving me a solution. So you're saying when your book can gotDr. Tom O'Brian  1:05:43  a Kleenex, hand him a Kleenex to get the snot and to six inch houseplants, and there's about 12 or 14 different types of houseplans six inch houseplants absorbable To 70% of the toxins in the air in a 10 by 10 room, they're absorbed through the leaves, they go down into the roots, the microbiome of the soil breaks that stuff down. They produce oxygen and put oxygen into the air to 10 by 10 to six inch houseplants for a 10. By 10 roomEric Rieger  1:06:17  solution.Ken Brown  1:06:18  Yeah, it's a solution I'm all about so and so your book is not just teaching people what to worry about, but you're like, this is the solution. So the one hour a week is I'm going to give you one hour a week solution. And if you continually do that, by the end, you're going to be a healthier person.Dr. Tom O'Brian  1:06:35  You know, everybody wants solutions. Nobody wants to hear about the problem. But there's no way you will have the tenacity to do this. And at a pace that you can do it and not be overwhelmed. That's why it's one hour a week understanding. You are going to be overwhelmed, but you're going to do bite sized pieces pieces of this. And in six months. You've got it. You've changed your life. Your husband Using the Tupperware containers to store nails in the garage, right? I mean, you've got all the the dishwasher, you'd never run the dishwasher during the day. Because the toxic chemicals that come out of the dishwashing detergent, when they get heated up to 160 - 170 degrees, they leach out of dishwashers are not airtight. They're watertight, they're not airtight, and those chemicals are in the air, you're sucking those fumes. You only run the dishwasher at night when everybody's sleeping. And you've got to learn all these little things because the paradigm that we've accepted the prevailing dogma that we've accepted about the way to live life and about our homes is killing us. It's slowly killing us. This is why your patients are coming in with more confusing results is because they're loaded full of all of these toxic chemicals. How many of us have been watching the chem trails? For years to say, Oh, that's really something you know that that's too bad. Yeah, I wonder what that stuff is. And we've never done anything about it. We're sucking the fumes of all those heavy metals that were being spewed into the air.Eric Rieger  1:08:12  Yeah, well, I do want to add something here. I know that we've been it didn't seem like until just looked. But we've been talking for a good while. And I need to also give you some praise since you were the first to utilize the digital internet to reach so many people. You also have one of the most kick ass URLs I've ever seen. Yeah, so what is it? We do? SoKen Brown  1:08:34  we haven't ever joked about this? I was like, how in the heck did that guy get that URL?Dr. Tom O'Brian  1:08:39  1996Eric Rieger  1:08:42  the URL to link up with this very Dr. Tom O'Brien is the doctor.com and I want to say that one more time the doctor.com but you have the Dr. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, you're the Dr. calm. So Dr. Bri ER doctor abbreviated v dr.com. dr.com will connect you with Dr. Tom O'Brien. But you also also have two specific programs for our listeners. One is to do that with a / betrayal to get on to the train of exactly the training that you're talking about and the other one, and I'll put, I'll put this in show notes, everyone, but the other one is thedoctor.com/kickstart. And if you want to do a quick rundown on exactly what kickstart is, that way, everyone in our universe can hop over and learn a little bit more from that from that with from you. Just tell us a little about thedoctor.com/kickstart.Dr. Tom O'Brian  1:09:36  You bet that Thank you. The kickstart is a number of handouts for you. They're going to talk about how to detox your house, how to reduce electromagnetic pollution in your house. What are the house plants that will suck up toxins? There's there's a handout for the kitchen there's a handout for the bathroom. There's a handout for the bedroom, all a number of different handouts so that you've got Steps to implement right away and you take them at your own pace, you'll get the plastic storage containers out of there, order glass storage containers, things like that.Ken Brown  1:10:10  Dr. Tom, I want to interrupt you real quick because you've hit a nerve with me here this is I just don't have the I'm always I spent a lot more than just an hour a week. But I spent an hours a week looking at the stuff that I'm interested in. And I have a blind eye to what you're talking about. And what you just said is I'm going to give you solutions. You can put a handout up, you're just going to go do this, this and this, because I believe you and I, I don't want to read a whole book about why I should get rid of my plastic just Just tell me how to how to fix it. That's what I like. kickstart seems like a really cool program for that.Dr. Tom O'Brian  1:10:46  Oh, thank you very much. And if you were my patient, I'd be all over you. That you can't do that because it's wanting solutions that has gotten us into trouble. Oh, gotta understand. All of you. The map of what happensKen Brown  1:11:01  this where you start yelling at me like you did on stage.Dr. Tom O'Brian  1:11:06  Because if you don't understand that mold can be a huge problem for Mrs. patient. When you go on vacation for a week or two, when you come home, you have to open the windows to air the house out. Oh, yeah, you got mold. You have to have the house remediated, you have to have a professional come Well, I don't have a problem. When I'm here. I don't feel anything. It doesn't matter if you feel it or not. If you're inhaling it, it's going up to your brain. And it's the number one trigger for the development of Alzheimer's is in halation, Alzheimer's, it's what you're breathing. So if your brain ain't cooking the way it should be, it's cooking in the wrong direction, you're too much on fire. You have to identify where it's coming from so you can get all the house plants you want. But if you still got mold in your bathroom, well it's not too bad on the tiles there. You know, it's just on the grout in between the tile that's not too bad. We'll Put that on your tombstone. It wasn't too bad. You know, it's critically important that we change our paradigm so that we understand what our individual map is, what has gotten us to where we are, because that map is going to change, you're going to get better because you implement the things in the handouts. That's great, you're going to get better. But a year from now, two years from no

So Bob headed out on the road to catch up with some folks who have an overview of the 2020 crop and pre-harvest considerations, including Syngenta's Dean Grossnickle AND Titan/Goodyear's Scott Sloan. PLUS Don Roose's expert market analysis AND the Three Big Things You Need to Know.

So Bob has been appearing all week on Tim’s second podcast, MÉNAGE Á POP. And on Monday’s edition he discussed his long-time resemblance to one of TV’s FRIENDS, Chandler Bing. Therefore, at the risk of turning today’s glorified rerun into a self-serving tie-in, the two are reposting a conversation on a full third of that same ensemble. Its their clinical re-evaluation of the rollercoaster romance between Rachel Greene and that jerk Ross. Ugh. (originally streamed on 8/31/17) This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

Bob Kasenchak Bob Kasenchak is an expert on taxonomy for web publishers. He's one of a handful of information architects who focuses on this powerful practice. A good taxonomy helps people find and navigate your content. It helps search engines index and list your content. It helps connect your content to similar content on the web. The process of building a taxonomy can help align different business units in your organization around a central knowledge model that can power a number of different information systems. People like Bob devote their careers to the practice of taxonomy. But you don't have become a professional to benefit from well-organized content. Bob and I talked about: his role at Synaptica, a company that sells taxonomy and ontology software what taxonomy is, and its origins in the worlds of science and librarianship the differences between taxonomy use in the analog and digital worlds the inferiority of simple text search and how taxonomy can help deliver better search results how the concept of social media hashtags illustrates the benefits of creating controlled taxonomies how taxonomy creation can help align stakeholders across an organization how taxonomists can use an enterprise's content to create a central knowledge model to power a number of internal information systems how to embed taxonomy practices in your organization how "a taxonomy is a living document or data structure that has to be fed and watered" to account for change - Pluto as a planet, or COVID-19 as a disease, e.g. how the differences between structured content in a format like XML versus content stored in a database affect your ability to retrieve certain kinds of content information taxonomies that show organizational structure the difference between a content tagging taxonomy and web navigation taxonomy how taxonomies often exist in many different places and formats in an organization - "taxonomies are like teapots - everyone has a couple of them lying around, even if you're not sure where they are or how you got them" some of the tools available for taxonomists how to use existing taxonomies to jump-start your taxonomy project how to enlist taxonomy fans in your organization to support ongoing taxonomy work the natural human propensity to categorize things, and how taxonomy can help Bob's Bio Bob Kasenchak is a taxonomist and Senior Manager of Client Solutions at Synaptica living in Albuquerque, New Mexico. After early training in philosophy and a decade studying and teaching music, Bob spent eight years designing and developing information projects at a leading taxonomy firm before joining Synaptica in 2019. His current interests include knowledge graphs, gamelan, and soup. Connect with Bob on Social Media Twitter Links to Resources Mentioned in the Podcast The Accidental Taxonomist list of taxonomy tools TemaTres Video Here’s the video version of our conversation: https://youtu.be/x7ty-51N8jQ Podcast Intro Transcript Whether you're classifying biological organisms, organizing books in a library, or categorizing your company's website content, you need a taxonomy. A good taxonomy makes your content accessible to people, findable by search engines, and connectable to other content. People like Bob Kasenchak devote their careers to the practice of taxonomy. But you don't have become a professional like Bob to benefit from well-organized content. Keep listening to learn more about this powerful information architecture practice. Interview Transcript Larry: Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 77 of the Content Strategy Insights podcast. I'm really happy today to have with us Bob Kasenchak. Bob is a taxonomist at Synaptica. He's also his actual job title there is Senior Manager of Client Solutions. So Bob, welcome. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you do there at Synaptica and what a senior manager of client solutions...

With its beloved characters, iconic set pieces and epic score, Back To The Future is considered one of the greatest family films of all time. So Bob and Tim are going to talk about ...the third one ... with all its horses ... and cowboy hats... and... ahm ... dirt. Seriously, this is how they discuss one of the defining trilogies of the 1980s? Double-back and consider why its not the second one as they revisit Back To The Future Part 3. 00:00:00 PRE-SHOW PRATTLE -reciting from memory 00:01:09 ISN’T IT SEMANTICS? - two sequels verses a trilogy 00:06:34 MAY 25TH, 1990 - and Bob’s seen this one the most? 00:10:54 MODERN DAY - trilogy intentions 00:14:10 DEJA BOO - and what’s up (with) Doc? 00:23:12 TACKED IN TIME - and an actual train wreck 00:28:21 THE CLAYTON PARADOX - Tim takes a little too long to not quite explain time travel 00:34:14 SPACE TIME CONTINUITY - and that dastardly DeLorean 00:39:00 SPACE TIME CONUNDRUM - where did all this character development come from? 00:47:14 GOOD REALITY/BAD REALITY - and maybe that particular conversation was off mic 00:49:34 CLOSING - contacts, plugs and no catch phrase For full show notes visit www.nahpods.com This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

  Patron "Balthazar" took us up on the offer to take your requests for topics or guests. His is the first one that was easily fulfilled. So Bob, Tim Smith, Eric the producer, patron Veronica and a cast of bikers and reenactors met at the beer garden of The Farnsworth House to talk about what the civilians experienced with the units that came through or occupied the town from June 26, 1863, on.    Become a Patron today by clicking here  Matthew Callery, Bob Steenstra, Timothy H. Smith. Copyright 2020. All rights reserved  

* RSR Answers Ham's, "Is God in Control?" Bob Enyart and Fred Williams open the Real Science Radio mailbag and reply to 1) a personally addressed question from a listener, Andrew, about the giants in the Bible and any possible evidence for them today; and 2) a newsletter from Answers in Genesis presenting Ken Ham asking, "Is God in Control?" The guys answer, "No", not in the way that Ken implies. AiG and other large creation groups occasionally weigh into territory that by policy they typically avoid when now and then they obliquely promote a particular denominational or otherwise specific theological perspective. So Bob and Fred ask listeners for patience and grace as the guys directly respond to the theological implications brought up, whether intentionally or not, by the beloved founder of AiG. Stuff's easy to fake* RSR on Ancient Giants: As with the claim that a Photoshopped image actually depicts a civil-war era pterosaur photograph, Photoshoppers, intentionally or not, have deceived many who hope to find archaeological evidence of ancient giants, also known as the nephilim, etc. Ironically, well-intentioned Christians who offer erroneous evidence for the Bible end up hurting the cause of the Gospel. The giants described in the Bible are real, and therefore they are physiologically possible. Those who promote as real the Photoshopped images of oversized giants can learn a lesson from the paleontologists. First, they realized they had overcounted the number of dinosaur species by double (so 500 dino species went poof) and then the paleontologists realized that the ones that remained lost weight, big time! For example, instead of Brachiosaurus weighing 80 tons, it is now carefully calculated to have weighed about 23 tons. (Not only did this make allomotrists happier, but reducing the numbers and weight of dinosaur kinds also reduces the demand on Noah's family and ark, even though of course they brought juvenile creatures onto the ark!) As to overweight dinosaurs and oversized giants, God's design of actual creatures is not only brilliant but omnicompetent. It's not, however, science fiction. It's not cartoonish. There's also strong evidence for quantum biology, that God designed organisms to utilize the currently incomprehensible features of quantum mechanics. What God's designs do not do however, is violate the laws of physics. He designed reptiles, which grew no where near the size the larger dinosaurs, with their legs extending outward from their bodies, before they descend downward to the ground. That design, perfect for reptiles, would greatly limit the size and mass of dinosaurs, since horizontally-inclined legs would quickly fail as the animal's weight exceeded the carrying load. So God designed dinosaur legs to extend directly downward from beneath their bodies. This enables the larger kinds, such as the biblical behemoth, discovered only in 2014 and named dreadnoughtus, to gain weight till it's 65 tons, much heavier than a Boeing 737 airliner. The giants in man's ancient past described in the Bible were living, breathing, biological organisms. Therefore, they did not defy the laws of physics. Because they stood on two feet they could not be arbitrarily large. For example, cedar trees will grow to 200 feet tall (five telephone poles) and even to 230 feet! So that's quite the wild range for the imagination to run with to propose super-tall giants who could even lift average pyramid stones weighing 5,000 pounds. Hearing a Bible verse like Amos 2:9 read about "the Amorite... whose height was like the height of the cedars", one notices an abrupt cut off before reaching the end of the verse which makes clear that this is an analogy and not a literal comparison. For God says of the Amorites, "I destroyed... his roots beneath." Tolkein derived his word Ents, for the tall and strong Middle-earth tree beings, from the Anglo-Saxon word for giant. But for all that could be said about mankind's actual ancient giants, Ents notwithstanding, they did not have roots. So we can see that passages such as Amos 2:9 are not giving a literal but a metaphorical description. Other Bible passages that some of those obsessed with giants insist are literal are those that describe the Israelites as "grasshoppers" before the giants of Canaan. "There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight" (Ex. 13:33). However God uses the same metaphor in Isaiah 40:22 saying of the earth that "its inhabitants are like grasshoppers." A simile is a comparison using like or as and these verses, as overtly obvious except to those with an extreme bias, are figures of speech. Regardless though, modern "giants" who have amazed and sometimes entertained the masses top out at nearly nine feet tall and compared to these tallest modern humans, people have often described the comparison in terms not unlike the biblical figures of speech. Moses in Scripture provides an actual length measurement which can be used to estimate the height of one especially notable giant. "For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the giants. Indeed his bedstead was an iron bedstead. (Is it not [still] in Rabbah of the people of Ammon?) Nine cubits is its length and four cubits its width, according to the standard cubit" (Deut. 3:11). So this 13.5-foot bed would make Og, leaving six inches headroom and perhaps two feet at the foot of the bed, a stunning 11 feet tall! Og would make Robert Wadlow of Alton, Illinois, the tallest measured human being, at 8.11 inches, look incredibly short in comparison! The square-cube law, first described by Galileo, compares an increase in the size of an object with its much faster increase in volume (and typically, in weight and mass). Wadlow, for example, had to walk with a cane and leg braces (which sadly caused the infection that killed him at age 22) because as his height increased, there was far too much weight for his size-proportional growing bones to support. This law gives an exact relationship of size and volume for something as straightforward as a cube. But even for things as complex as biological organisms or machines that increase in size, the law still gives a good first approximation of certain expected physical attributes and a heads up for design requirements for engineers scaling up inventions, and for God when He went from designing mice to elephants, deer to giraffes, and giraffes to Brachiosaurs. Scaling upward in size introduces unavoidable physical consequences, including as you actually or theoretically increase the proposed size of a human, or any object, including any biological organism, and that would include the physical bodies of the giants know as the nephilim. If you doubled Wadlow's height from nine feet (times 2) to 18 feet, to get his new weight you would multiply his 440 pounds by 8 (2 cubed). At 3,500 pounds his bones would be crushed with every step. So even taking into account that organisms from 6,000 to 3,000 years ago were stronger and fitter than today, and taking into account also the supernatural aspects of the origin of the nephilm, still, they possessed physical bodies. Ancient giants, unlike giraffes and Diplodocus, still walked, as people do, on two feet and two legs. To be much taller than the Bashan's Og, they couldn't have been simply much larger human-looking beings. Physically, to be as enormous as some irresponsibly claim, these giants would have had to be different kinds of beings, not people-looking kinds, for people-looking 20-foot tall giants would be physically impossible, and besides, such creatures are biblically uncalled for. So what about those believers who have invested hundreds of hours or even years studying and believing the Photoshopped giant skeletons are actually real? We urge them to ask God for the courage to study real science, and real evidence for the Scriptures. This shift in their focus could bring them enormous satisfaction and help them to have a greater influence on others, especially on those who so desperately need to hear about our creator and savior Jesus Christ.

* RSR Answers Ham's, "Is God in Control?" Bob Enyart and Fred Williams open the Real Science Radio mailbag and reply to 1) a personally addressed question from a listener, Andrew, about the giants in the Bible and any possible evidence for them today; and 2) a newsletter from Answers in Genesis presenting Ken Ham asking, "Is God in Control?" The guys answer, "No", not in the way that Ken implies. AiG and other large creation groups occasionally weigh into territory that by policy they typically avoid when now and then they obliquely promote a particular denominational or otherwise specific theological perspective. So Bob and Fred ask listeners for patience and grace as the guys directly respond to the theological implications brought up, whether intentionally or not, by the beloved founder of AiG. Stuff's easy to fake* RSR on Ancient Giants: As with the claim that a Photoshopped image actually depicts a civil-war era pterosaur photograph, Photoshoppers, intentionally or not, have deceived many who hope to find archaeological evidence of ancient giants, also known as the nephilim, etc. Ironically, well-intentioned Christians who offer erroneous evidence for the Bible end up hurting the cause of the Gospel. The giants described in the Bible are real, and therefore they are physiologically possible. Those who promote as real the Photoshopped images of oversized giants can learn a lesson from the paleontologists. First, they realized they had overcounted the number of dinosaur species by double (so 500 dino species went poof) and then the paleontologists realized that the ones that remained lost weight, big time! For example, instead of Brachiosaurus weighing 80 tons, it is now carefully calculated to have weighed about 23 tons. (Not only did this make allomotrists happier, but reducing the numbers and weight of dinosaur kinds also reduces the demand on Noah's family and ark, even though of course they brought juvenile creatures onto the ark!) As to overweight dinosaurs and oversized giants, God's design of actual creatures is not only brilliant but omnicompetent. It's not, however, science fiction. It's not cartoonish. There's also strong evidence for quantum biology, that God designed organisms to utilize the currently incomprehensible features of quantum mechanics. What God's designs do not do however, is violate the laws of physics. He designed reptiles, which grew no where near the size the larger dinosaurs, with their legs extending outward from their bodies, before they descend downward to the ground. That design, perfect for reptiles, would greatly limit the size and mass of dinosaurs, since horizontally-inclined legs would quickly fail as the animal's weight exceeded the carrying load. So God designed dinosaur legs to extend directly downward from beneath their bodies. This enables the larger kinds, such as the biblical behemoth, discovered only in 2014 and named dreadnoughtus, to gain weight till it's 65 tons, much heavier than a Boeing 737 airliner. The giants in man's ancient past described in the Bible were living, breathing, biological organisms. Therefore, they did not defy the laws of physics. Because they stood on two feet they could not be arbitrarily large. For example, cedar trees will grow to 200 feet tall (five telephone poles) and even to 230 feet! So that's quite the wild range for the imagination to run with to propose super-tall giants who could even lift average pyramid stones weighing 5,000 pounds. Hearing a Bible verse like Amos 2:9 read about "the Amorite... whose height was like the height of the cedars", one notices an abrupt cut off before reaching the end of the verse which makes clear that this is an analogy and not a literal comparison. For God says of the Amorites, "I destroyed... his roots beneath." Tolkein derived his word Ents, for the tall and strong Middle-earth tree beings, from the Anglo-Saxon word for giant. But for all that could be said about mankind's actual ancient giants, Ents notwithstanding, they did not have roots. So we can see that passages such as Amos 2:9 are not giving a literal but a metaphorical description. Other Bible passages that some of those obsessed with giants insist are literal are those that describe the Israelites as "grasshoppers" before the giants of Canaan. "There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight" (Ex. 13:33). However God uses the same metaphor in Isaiah 40:22 saying of the earth that "its inhabitants are like grasshoppers." A simile is a comparison using like or as and these verses, as overtly obvious except to those with an extreme bias, are figures of speech. Regardless though, modern "giants" who have amazed and sometimes entertained the masses top out at nearly nine feet tall and compared to these tallest modern humans, people have often described the comparison in terms not unlike the biblical figures of speech. Moses in Scripture provides an actual length measurement which can be used to estimate the height of one especially notable giant. "For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the giants. Indeed his bedstead was an iron bedstead. (Is it not [still] in Rabbah of the people of Ammon?) Nine cubits is its length and four cubits its width, according to the standard cubit" (Deut. 3:11). So this 13.5-foot bed would make Og, leaving six inches headroom and perhaps two feet at the foot of the bed, a stunning 11 feet tall! Og would make Robert Wadlow of Alton, Illinois, the tallest measured human being, at 8.11 inches, look incredibly short in comparison! The square-cube law, first described by Galileo, compares an increase in the size of an object with its much faster increase in volume (and typically, in weight and mass). Wadlow, for example, had to walk with a cane and leg braces (which sadly caused the infection that killed him at age 22) because as his height increased, there was far too much weight for his size-proportional growing bones to support. This law gives an exact relationship of size and volume for something as straightforward as a cube. But even for things as complex as biological organisms or machines that increase in size, the law still gives a good first approximation of certain expected physical attributes and a heads up for design requirements for engineers scaling up inventions, and for God when He went from designing mice to elephants, deer to giraffes, and giraffes to Brachiosaurs. Scaling upward in size introduces unavoidable physical consequences, including as you actually or theoretically increase the proposed size of a human, or any object, including any biological organism, and that would include the physical bodies of the giants know as the nephilim. If you doubled Wadlow's height from nine feet (times 2) to 18 feet, to get his new weight you would multiply his 440 pounds by 8 (2 cubed). At 3,500 pounds his bones would be crushed with every step. So even taking into account that organisms from 6,000 to 3,000 years ago were stronger and fitter than today, and taking into account also the supernatural aspects of the origin of the nephilm, still, they possessed physical bodies. Ancient giants, unlike giraffes and Diplodocus, still walked, as people do, on two feet and two legs. To be much taller than the Bashan's Og, they couldn't have been simply much larger human-looking beings. Physically, to be as enormous as some irresponsibly claim, these giants would have had to be different kinds of beings, not people-looking kinds, for people-looking 20-foot tall giants would be physically impossible, and besides, such creatures are biblically uncalled for. So what about those believers who have invested hundreds of hours or even years studying and believing the Photoshopped giant skeletons are actually real? We urge them to ask God for the courage to study real science, and real evidence for the Scriptures. This shift in their focus could bring them enormous satisfaction and help them to have a greater influence on others, especially on those who so desperately need to hear about our creator and savior Jesus Christ.

Robert “Bob“ Seawright is the Chief Investment & Information Officer for Madison Avenue Securities, LLC, an investment advisory firm and broker-dealer headquartered in San Diego, California. Bob’s blog, Above the Market, has received “best of” recognition from a wide variety of sources, including The Wall Street Journal and the CFA Institute, and is the #7 rated advisor blog in the country based upon readership, linkage, and influence. And don’t’ miss The Better Letter Newsletter that he writes about markets and life and comes out every Friday morning.   “Good advice wrongly applied isn’t any better than bad advice.” Robert Seawright   Worst investment ever Beginner’s luck Bob’s worst investment ever, like for most investors, was when he was starting as an investor. At the time, Bob was working on the fixed income trading floor for a big Wall Street investment house trading bonds all day every day. So what he knew and understood was bonds. Bod had learned from the bigwigs of investing, such as Peter Lynch, to invest in what you know. So Bob allocated his investment money heavily toward bonds. Thanks to beginner’s luck, he did just fine with his bond investments. Missing out on higher returns While Bob never lost any money for investing in bonds, he played too safe and missed out on other investments that he should have made early in his life. Such investments, with compounding they could have had a lot more returns. Luck and randomness have always been his saving grace In the course of his life, Bob has made a few more bad investments that somehow have turned out well for him, thanks to luck. For instance, he bought a house at the wrong time, but as random as this decision was, it turned out great for him. Bob also went against financial planning advice and paid for his kids’ education. Bob had not been able to go to college, where he wanted because his parents didn’t have the money. So it was a very important value for Bob to provide the best education possible for his kids. This is even though he knew that would mean working longer and having less in retirement. Bob knew from an investment standpoint, it was foolish, but he did it anyway. Lessons learned What are you trying to accomplish? Before you start investing, be sure to understand what you’re trying to accomplish. This is important because every investment, even the best investment in the world, has cons as well as pros. So when inevitably, a con period shows up, you’ll be ready and able to handle it. Randomness in investment is more important than you think If you think about your biggest successes, they all happened with a lot of randomness involved. While they almost always happen because you worked hard, and you made good decisions, there’s also randomness playing a big part. It always helps to remember that when things turn out right, there’s always luck involved. A natural love for new shiny things We tend to jump on what we’ve just seen, and we latch hold of what’s available. When someone mentions something new, they’ve primed the pump, and you’re going to respond with what they’ve mentioned way more often than not. So be careful of investing in something just because it’s new and recent to you. Andrew’s takeaways Familiarity bias versus shortfall risk Investors, especially beginners, tend to play it safe by putting their money in something they are familiar with, such as the bank, or maybe bonds. However, there’s a hidden risk associated with playing safe – the shortfall risk. For instance, if you’re going to need $3 million in cash to retire at age 60, and you put your money into bonds, you’re going to feel like you’ve reduced your risk, but in fact, you’ve increased it on the other end through shortfall risk. Everything is a balance When it comes to investing, you can’t have it all. You think you’re safe by doing X, but what you don’t know is that there’s a balance. So while you’re safe, you’re also causing something else to go out of whack. Actionable advice Be careful of overconfidence bias but also don’t be too loss averse. People tend to be, on the one hand, overconfident and, on the other hand, loss averse. The truth is that nobody achieves something great without trying something great. And if we all played the odds, we probably wouldn’t try something great. So be careful but still take calculated risks. No. 1 goal for the next 12 months Bob’s number one goal in the next 12 months is quite simple: to be a better person. Connect with Robert Seawright LinkedIn Twitter Blog Andrew’s books How to Start Building Your Wealth Investing in the Stock Market My Worst Investment Ever 9 Valuation Mistakes and How to Avoid Them Transform Your Business with Dr.Deming’s 14 Points Andrew’s online programs Valuation Master Class Women Building Wealth The Build Your Wealth Membership Group Become a Great Presenter and Increase Your Influence Transform Your Business with Dr. Deming’s 14 Points Connect with Andrew Stotz: astotz.com LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter YouTube My Worst Investment Ever Podcast  

Helping Yourself With Bob Burg Josh: So we've got Bob Burg here today, and he's an absolute legend in his field. He's changed the way that I do business, he's changed my life. He was one of the first self-help books that I read. And ultimately it's something that I always talk to, a massive influencer for me. And I talk to all my clients and make sure that they go and read, number one The Go-Giver. They need to jump into that, that changes the way you do business. So Bob, tell me a bit about The Go-Giver. Get more tips from Bob Burg at dorksdelivered.com.au  Watch this episode on Youtube: https://youtu.be/GS2jTHebvHA Bob Burg: Well it's a business parable. So it's a fictional story based on all tried and proven principles. And there's a lot of stories within the story that actually happen. But the actual work is a work of fiction. It's co-authored by John David Mann who's a fantastic storyteller and writer. I'm much more of a how-to guy. And it's a story of a guy named Joe who's a young up-and-coming, ambitious, aggressive salesperson. He's a good guy and he has good intent, but he's very frustrated because he hasn't reached the kind of success he believes he should have by this point. But he really comes to learn that the big problem, his focus is really on himself when it comes right down to it as opposed to others. And what he learns through the story, is that when you can shift your focus off of yourself and onto others. Being focused on creating or what we call getting exceptional value to everyone you meet, you realise that not only is that a more pleasant way of conducting business, it's actually the most financially profitable way as well. Josh: I have to say I completely agree. Having read your book, it would have been now, I couldn't even say how many years ago. It was many, many years ago I read. I started off with The Go-Giver and I thought, this is amazing. Jumped onto The Go-Giver Leader, jumped onto Sell me More, and then Endless Referrals, and The Success Formula. I nearly have the library. Bob Burg: Wow, thank you. That's a great compliment. Josh: I can say your teachings are amazing. And the way that that was done in The Go-Giver was a very light, easy read in my opinion. It related to lots of people and it wasn't something that you... You pick it up and you just wanted to read, you didn't want to put it down. It wasn't something that was hard to read. Bob Burg: And that goes to John, that's his writing skills. Josh: It helped. And especially in my naivety when I was first starting out in business, being able to read something like that and go, okay this sounds good. And knowing that there is good ways and great ways to do business, as opposed to the ruthless cutthroat methods that seem to be fictionalised in movies. Bob Burg: Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons there was appeal for the book, for the message. Because most human beings, they want to feel like they're making a positive difference in people's lives. And so I think what the book said is basically, yeah you can do business that way. Not only is it can you focus on bringing value to others, and not only is it going to have you feel good about yourself, not only are you going to make money doing that, but that's actually the more effective way of doing it than focusing on yourself. Because you think about this, and I often will say this in a joking manner when I speak at a sales conference. One of the first things I'll say is, "Nobody's going to buy from you because you have a quota to me." Josh: Yeah, exactly. Bob Burg: Right? They're not going to buy from you, right and we all laugh because we all know that's true. No one's going to buy from us because we need the sale, right? They're not going to buy from you because you need the money. And they're not even going to buy from you because you're a nice person. They're going to buy from you because they believe that they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so. And that's perfect, it's the only reason why anyone should buy from you, or from me, or from anyone else. And the neat thing about that is what it does is it makes it so that sales person or entrepreneur who can place their focus on that other person, placing that other person's interest first, doing what's in the best interest of that other person and being able to communicate that. That's the person who's going to be more successful both in the short-term and the longer sustainable term. Josh: Well I can say, the proof is in the pudding and I've made my business on the pudding that you gave me. Bob Burg: Oh, okay. Josh: So yeah, it worked out really well. And as you said, it should be straight-forward but it just doesn't seem to come by nature. And I know, I myself I'm very technical. My background's technical, my skill set's technical and I was the technician that decided I've got something better to give to the world. And excuse the French, but scared shitless when it came to trying to sell or talk to people about it. And your books described it perfectly, don't sell. Just show people what you've got to offer- Bob Burg: Well, here's what it is. It's not that you're not selling, but we define selling differently right? Josh: Yeah, exactly. Bob Burg: Because when you think about it a lot of people say, well what's selling? Selling is trying to convince someone to buy something they don't want or need. Well that's not selling, that's called being a thief. So what is selling? Well selling, by definition selling is simply discovering what that other person does want, does need, does desire and helping them to get it. The Old English root of the word sell was sellan, which literally meant to give. So, when you're selling you're literally giving. No, someone might say, well wait a second isn't that semantics? And I say, well I don't think so and here's why. Let's say you have a prospective customer in front of you and they want to know why. Why they should do business with you, why you're the solution to their problem, why that... Well, so you're in a sales situation, you are selling. So my question would be, when you're selling what are you giving? I suggest you're giving that person time, attention, counsel, education, empathy and ultimately extreme value. So when we look at selling that way, now we see that it's really something good that we're doing. Josh: You're helping everyone ultimately, unless you're being a thief as you said. Bob Burg: Oh yeah, sure. And that's not selling, that's being a thief. Josh: That's right. As long as you've got a good product, a good mindset, and you believe in what you're doing, and what you're selling, and what your message is I find that your customers become your best salespeople. Bob Burg: Oh, absolutely. They become your personal walking ambassadors. Josh: Correct, yeah. And it's an amazing concept, so anyone that hasn't read The Go-Giver definitely needs to jump into it. It's a must-read, it needs to sit on there on the shelf as one of the first books that you read next to E-Myth and other classics. And in fact when I first met my partner Sarah, she'd started a first business as the first set of... Backstory, met her on Tinder. I would have rather met her in a nicer way, but we live in the age that we live in. So, met her on Tinder, and the first time we caught up together she had her folder there and I caught up with her. She didn't know if it was a business meeting or a date. And I was talking to her about different ways that she could better her business. And if I don't say so myself, quite the gentleman opening the door and so on and so forth for her. And I said one of the first things you need to do is read The Go-Getter, and this copy that I've actually got here now that we've been together for a while is signed by me saying, To all your success, Love Josh. Bob Burg: That's great. Josh: So this is actually the book that I had for myself and I gifted to her. And it's come straight back, although that sounds a bit corny it's exactly the message that you're giving, you give, and it comes back to you. And it comes back to you in... I gave her a book and I got a life partner. How good's that? So it comes back to you significantly more than what you give out. Bob Burg: Well that's awesome. And I never thought of my book going along on a Tinder date, or business opportunity or what have you but I'm glad it did. Josh: So here you are. You're obviously an invite to the wedding. Bob Burg: Definitely, exactly. Josh: Yeah, just a little thank you on that one. And the opportunities don't stop when you turn off your sales cap. It's always on if you're passionate about it good things always come your way. Bob Burg: Yep. Josh: So tell me about what happens after the book, when someone's read the book what's the next steps they can do to find out how to better themselves and adventure onwards past he one-way literature. Bob Burg: Well application is always really key. And that's why in the story itself Pindar, the main mentor told Joe there was really only one condition for his mentorship. And that is that he applied those laws. Every day, that every time he learned a new law he would apply the law that day. It didn't have to be done perfectly and it wasn't a matter of figuring out exactly why or why it wouldn't work or what have you. Just do the thing, right? Just take action on it. And so we find the feedback that we received from a lot of people, bless you, a lot of people do that. A lot of people will take one law and say, okay how do I apply this? How do I do this? And then they'll work on that. I always think that's a great way to start. So you ask yourself, how do I bring value to another human being? And when you think about it we have to really understand what value is, what it means. A lot of times I think people maybe confuse price and value, and those are actually two different terms. For example the law of value says your true worth is determined by how much more you give in value than you take in payment. But you think about it, that sounds like a recipe for bankruptcy. Give more in value than I take in payment, aren't I going to go out of business? And so we simply have to understand the difference between price and value. So what we know is that price is a dollar amount, it's a dollar figure, it's finite. It simply is wat it is, it's the price. Value on the other hand is the relative worth or desirability of a thing, of something to the end user or beholder. In other words, what is it about this thing, this product, this service, this concept, this idea that bring with it so much worth or value to another human being that they will willingly exchange their money for this. And be glad, be ecstatic that they did while you make a very healthy profit. And so when you automate for example somebody's business, and do this in a way that... What's the value you're providing? You're saving them time, you're saving them energy, you're saving them from making needless mistakes, you're making it so that they're going to make more money in their business. So I guarantee you that whatever it is you charge that person, they're getting much more in value than what they're paying. But you're making a very healthy profit because obviously with your cost of goods sold, and rent and everything else you're selling the service for much, much more than what you're having to pay to support it. And that's why in a market-based economy with every sale there should be two profits. The buyer profits and the seller profits because each of them come away better off afterwards than they were beforehand. So, that's the law of value. It's not a matter of, some people might think The Go-Giver, does that mean you're giving away your products or services? No. Does it mean you're not making a profit? Of course not. As a Go-Giver you're going to make a much higher profit because your focus is going to be on the value, the experience, everything you proved that other person, right? Not low-price, when you sell them low-price you're a commodity. When you sell on high-value you're a resource. Josh: Well that's it. Too many people, there's a podcast we did a few weeks ago on apples versus oranges, how could they possible be the same price? When people are comparing apples with apples, and as soon as you are comparing apples with apples you commoditize your business, and then the only thing you can fight on is price. And that's where you need to be able to bring that value, bring that change. So you've got value, price and cost. Bob Burg: Yeah. And here's the thing. So when you look at the price, and I think the cost is pretty self-explanatory. The price is self-explanatory, right? But when we talk about value, that can be both concrete in terms of when someone saves a certain amount of money, when you help someone make a certain amount that's fine. But there's so much more to the experience itself even, that's conceptual in nature. But here's what we've got to really understand, that value is always in the eyes of the beholder. Josh: Yes. Bob Burg: So what that other person feels is valuable about your product, or service, or doing business with you or what have you. Not what you think is of value, or what you think they should think is of value. It's about what they do. So if we're going to say to somebody, okay so how do you practise the law of value, right? Well the first thing you do is ask questions, and make sure you discover what other people find to be of value and then you go from there. Because it's not a matter of just doing things that you think are of value to others, that's fine. But what you feel is of value may not be what they feel is. Josh: Right. And then there's this disparity between your service offerings not being seen as valuable. Bob Burg: Stand-by, right? Josh: Yeah. So it's a very valuable lesson. And I know that you're big on authority building and influence, and I think that is something that could bring out a lot of value to people. Something that can show people your worth in mass without having to necessarily having to spend time as a commodity. You're able to put a resource in front of people or it's able to come about in front of them where they can see the things that can benefit their business and benefit their life. How would you go about starting off becoming an influencer? Bob Burg: So I think it's always a good thing, I'm always a big believer in defining terms so that we're all facing the same direction. So when you think about what influence even is, on a very basic level influence can be defined as simply the ability to move a person or persons to a desired action, usually within the context of a specific goal. So by definitely that's [inaudible 00:24:47]. Now that's the definitely, but I don't believe that's the essence of influence. The essence of influence is pull. Pull as opposed to push, as in the saying how far can you push a rook? And the answer's not very, at least not very fast or very effectively. Which is why great influencers don't push, right? You never hear people saying, wow that Tom or that Nancy, she is so influential. She has a lot of push with people. No, she's influential she has a lot of pull with people. That's what influence is. It's pull, it's an attraction. Great influencers first attract people to themselves, and only then to their idea. So how do we do that? So the law of influence says, in the book the law of influence says your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interests first. Well what does that mean? We're not talking about being self-sacrificial, or being a martyr, or being a doormat. But no, here's what we mean. Like this person who utilises pull in order to influence. That person's always asking themselves questions such as, how does what I am asking this other person do, how does it align with their goals, their wants, their needs, their desires? How does what I want this other person to do, how does it align with their values? How am I making their life better? What is a problem of theirs I am helping them to solve. And see Josh, when we ask ourselves these questions thoughtfully, intelligently, genuinely, authentically, not as a way to manipulate another human being into doing our will, but as a way of building everyone in the process. Now we've come a lot closer to earning that person's commitment as opposed to trying to depend on some type of compliance which is push, right? That's pushing ourselves or pushing our will and so forth. Josh: So say you're a small business, you've just started out and you've got just yourself. You've just read The Go-Giver and you're thinking about how can you change your methodology from being a push. I'm sure you've seen some of the pyramid schemes that are out there that have generally more push than pull from a sales perspective and they're trying to get you to on sale certain products without mentioning brands and bits and pieces. There's lots of them out there and that's always a very push, and their sales training has all been very push. How would you change someone from a push mentality into a pull mentality? And how would you change around their processes to allow for that to come to fruition and be noticed by, either their existing customers that have come about probably through getting sick of saying no, and they've finally said yes. Or how would you then change the mentality of their customer base or do you think it would be a bit more of a situation where you'd refresh the customer base? Or I guess how would you change your mindset from the 1980s this is how I'm going to be pushing something onto someone, to the 2020s soon to be. How would you change their process? Bob Burg: So I would say regardless of the field, if it's sales there are certain people who do it through push, and the good ones, the sustainably successful ones do it through pull. The ones who do it through push, and have been successful, and have been successful for a long time. They have to continue repeating the process over, and over, and over again with new people all the time. It's exhausting, it's very, very dificult. You can do it but it's very dificult to build a sustainable business that way. The ones who do it through pull regardless of the business, regardless of the industry. These are the people who typically are able to really develop a wonderful referral base, and as you were mentioning earlier people who are out there singing your praises, right? What we call personal walking ambassadors. So I think it beginning with the initial conversation. And let's say you meet someone somewhere and you're at a business social function. And you just say hello, and you say your name, and they say their name. And you ask them what they do and they tell you what they do. And they're going to probably give you some elevator speech, right? I send high-end copying machines to business that need to blah, blah, blah, right? And so forth because that's what most people have been taught to do. So you want to listen respectfully when they do it, but then when they ask you what you do which they'll probably do. My suggestion is to rather than do some elevator speech, because remember right now when this person first meets you they really don't care about you, and don't care about what you do. They care about themselves. So my feeling is just say the name, say whatever your company is, whatever you do. I'm an accountant with so-and-so or whatever. But then you're going to go right back to asking that person questions about themselves and about their business. So I have questions I call feel good questions. And those are questions that are not salesy, they're not prospecty, they're not intrusive, they're not invasive. They just make this person feel genuinely good about themselves, about the situation, and about you. And remember when you're focusing on them you're taking the pressure off yourself. You don't have to be that person who has that clever pushy line and so forth. So the first feel good question that you could ask is simply, how did you get your start or how did you get started in the copying machine business? Or selling copying machines or what have you. Or you may say, how did you get your start in the office products profession? For a little bit more elegant. Whatever it is that person does, asking them how they got their start is a fantastic way to immediately communicate value to them. Because again, value is much more than just money. It's making the person feel important, feel good about themselves. And how many people ever ask this person how they got started in their business. I guarantee no one, their own family probably doesn't ask that person. And here's you who they just met, and you're asking them basically to tell you their story, and they're going to appreciate that. I would follow that up probably with another fielded question such as, what do you enjoy most about what you do? You'll probably segue into it by saying, wow you must have had some fascination experiences. What do you enjoy most about your work? Or what do you enjoy most about what you do? Again, it's a feel good question. There's no pressure attached to it. Now when you've begun to develop a little bit of a rapport with that person, I would then suggest asking what I call the one key question that will set you apart from practically everyone else that person has ever met, and that question sound something like this. Gary, how can I know if someone I'm speaking with is a good prospective customer for you? And think about what you've done when asking that question, right? Unlike other people who are just again trying to sell their product or service right away, what have you. You have actually said to this person, not in so many words, but what you've communicated is I want to help you. I want to add value to your life. I want to make your life better. Josh: You give something to them, yeah. Bob Burg: Yeah. And they're going to really appreciate that. Now, at the end of the conversation you've got their business card, you can follow up with a personalised hand-written note which is so much better than a text or an email. Even though those are always good, but after you first meet someone there's nothing like a personalised note or card to send hand-written just saying it was great meeting you. If I can ever refer business your way I certainly will. And you've not established a connection, you've now established a relationship with this person that you can then begin to build on however you do it. Whether it's by, then you connect with that person on social media. Whenever you can refer that person to someone else, or if you know that person has an interest in antiques and you find an article on antiques. And you print it out and you send it to them and say, hey I came across this and I remember you love antiques, thought you might find... All these things you're doing, you're just creating that relationship with that person. And this does not have to take a long time, it doesn't. And what happens is when you do this consistently, okay. And you do this over time with new people on an every day basis you start developing so many people within your new sphere of influence that you've always got someone who's at that point where it's ready for you to approach them about either doing business with them directly and/or referrals. Josh: What you're saying there you need to make sure that you are genuinely listening to people. You're not just hearing them, you need to be, lack of a better word, involved emotionally in what they're saying, and listening to what they're saying, and actually action from that information. You don't want to be just hearing them and then, oh yeah, yeah. Cool, cool. You like remote control racing. That's cool. Okay, moving on. You need to be ready and engaged to build that relationship if that's what's important. And ultimately in business it is the currency that is the most important, building relationships. All ships rise in high tide, especially relationships. Bob Burg: Yep, sure. Yeah. As we say, and several of the mentors told Joe in the story, the golden rule of business, of sales, of networking what have you is simply that all things being equal, people will do business with, and refer business to those people they know, like and trust. There's no faster, more powerful or more effective way to elicit these feelings towards you from others than by, and again as you said genuinely, right? Genuinely and authentically, and moving from that I focus, or me focus to that other focus where you're really looking to, as Sam one of the mentors advised Joe, make your win all about that other person's win. Josh: Yeah, 100%. It is all about the other person, and it should always be about the other person. And when people say... All the things that salesmen say. I'm not closing enough, it's all a numbers game. All this other stuff, there's always someone out there as you said that's ready to build a relationship, ready to be heard, and ready to have their story heard. And building those relationships when the time comes will come. If you're being a pushy person it's all about the numbers, and you're trying to change your three percent conversion to a five percent, or a five percent to a 10 percent when you're calling up. It's a yuckier game with a lot more negativity. It's a game that you have a lot of friction towards building the relationships, as opposed to genuinely building relationships. Bob Burg: Oh yeah, it always comes back to how you do it. If you're doing it with the, how do I serve this person? You're going to have a lot more success than if you were saying I'm going to talk at this person and try to get them to buy. Again, it's not that doing it the Go-Giver way is self-sacrificial. No. It's more practical doing it that way. Because again, are they more likely or less likely to buy from you when they can tell that you're focused on them as opposed to being focused on getting their money. Josh: And I've got to say that the solutions that you're putting in place, you've been listening to them. You understand their problems, you understand their stresses, you understand their pain points. You're able to then focus on that and make sure that you're removing those problems, not just explaining that moving to this solution is better for your business. You're hearing their problems and saying, well maybe this isn't better for your business. Bob Burg: Right. Josh: And that's fine as well. Bob Burg: Absolutely, when that happens that happens. Josh: If you've still got a perfect person there that you've been talking to, building a relationship with. They know the solutions that they offer, they know the things that it does, the things that it doesn't, the bells and whistles. And that then allows for them to then refer other businesses on when they see that there is a better fit for you, and they hear other people's problems. Bob Burg: That's right. Josh: And that's where you have your compounding effect of growth and it's really a beaut feeling. So I've been very excited. As I said, The Go-Getter changed my life. Changed the direction, and not just from a personal relationship perspective that I brought up earlier, much before that. So yeah, again thank you for that one. Bob Burg: My pleasure. Josh: I've read different books. There's one, I hope I'm not quoting the wrong name here. If I am I'll correct it with the title. I think it's called Sapiens, and it talks about how many relationships a single person can have in their life and build out from that. And they talk around the magic number of... That's weird. Bob Burg: That's Sapiens. Josh: That's the one. Bob Burg: Yeah. And he talked about the tribes back in the hunter-gatherer days were typically about 150. And that's the number, David Burkus writes about that too in his book. And yeah, I'm just trying to think of the person... Durham's or Dunham's, I can't think of what law it is. But it's that he's the person that came up and he documented that 150 per person. Josh: For anyone that's watching this, that wasn't staged there. You've got hundreds of books behind you, what are the chances the one on your desk- Bob Burg: Well the funny thing is, a good friend of mine had referred Sapiens to me about two years ago. And I always have so many books on the list to read, finally I was speaking in I think Colorado maybe a couple of weeks ago and I got that at the book store, I saw it at the book store. And I was looking for it, I was hoping to pick it up. And I started reading it and I really haven't been able to put it down. I'm about three quarters of the way through now, it's fascinating Josh: It's a fantastic book. With building relationships, and obviously all different businesses have... I guess you brought home exactly what I was bringing up in the book. And that's the rule of 150, maybe 200 people. And if you are in the business of selling items that... If you're in a business where you need to sell more items and not say a B2B business and profession industry like myself. If I have 50-70 businesses that I'm working with I'm happy as Larry, and I can comfortable have those 70 relationships. But if you're selling something that is a lower priced item you need to have a significantly higher ratio. Maybe it's 500 to 1 or something like that, and you still want to have those relationships built. And you want to have the authenticity with the relationships, but knowing that you can't necessarily have the closeness, and as they talk about the different circles of relationships that you have. You have your close intimate relationships and then it goes out from there. How do you make sure, how do you keep the authenticity? Would you suggest people using different databasing programmes to write down notes on people. To make sure if you don't talk to them for two years and then they come back to you and they said, Larry I really loved the talk that we had at the business conferencing meeting from two years ago that you can barely remember because there was too many beers flying around. And what would be the best method to make sure you are bing authentic. Would you say, Larry I'm glad we had a good chat but don't remember, what'd you say? As soon as you get home, as soon as you get back to the office write down what you remember about Larry and make sure that you can have a refresh? Bob Burg: Well I think the key with technology is to always use it to help with your authenticity, you know what I'm saying? So in other words it shouldn't be that it's about the technology, it's not. It's about the human relationship when you can utilise technology to do that. So I do want to write down what I talked about with someone and review it every so often because I do want to know, okay? But if something comes up where I happen to see that person or what have and they bring that up, and it's really not something that I do remember. No, again it depends on the contexts. Usually I'm going to say, you know what my gosh. I love you, love talking with you but I don't remember exactly what we talked about in that conversation. If you have that kind of relationship you can do that. But if it's going to hurt that person's feelings because that person maybe whatever. Well no, I'd probably just say, always love talking to you and that was great. Again, sometimes I think we go too overboard with being literal in some ways. You always want to be honest, but you also always want to be kind and tactful as well. So when technology can help you to authentically keep in touch with another person, absolutely. Totally we utilise that. Josh: Cool. That's perfect. So that's something that I know that myself, I write down as many things as I can remember about as many conversations that I had with people. And that could be whether or not they liked Chivas Regal or a dog named whatever the dogs name is. Bob Burg: Well then that's good. Because if they like Chivas Regal, and that might be something you mights end them sometimes on a special occasion. If their dog's name is Checkers and you want to be able to remember that their dog's name is Checkers when you speak. If you can remember it just because you remember it, that's great. I love animals so I tend to remember people's pets names. But that's not everybody, and there's other things about people I don't remember. And in that case you need that reminder. So no, I think all of that is great when it helps to further a relationship and it's authentic and genuine, of course. Utilise the technology. Josh: As I said, I think technology is perfect to be able to help people out. But as you said, do not overcome the personal touch. Don't use technology to be personal, use technology to get rid of the repetition. But use yourself and your power that you have, your voice that you use to build those personal relationships. Bob Burg: Exactly. Josh: And that's what it's about. The cavemen had different tools that they used to achieve their objectives. And the time has changed, the chairs we sit in are different, the offices have air con in them, but we use a different set of tools to achieve the same objectives which is awesome. Bob Burg: They're just tools, exactly. Josh: Well we're getting very close to the end here. I wanted to ask, is there any speaking events or things that you do either around the states, or within Australia or down under that are coming up anytime soon? Bob Burg: Typically at this point I travel a lot less than I used to. At 61, I just don't want to be travelling all over the place, so I limit my out of state engagements to about 20 a year now. And I try to now keep it within the states. And those are my corporate programmes that I do, but we also have public seminars that we do usually in Orlando because it's easier for people from Australia, and Singapore, and South Africa, and London and so forth to get there. And so we hold them in Orlando, which is really only a couple of hours drive for me up the road. But Orlando because it's Disney World it's easier for people to get into. So our next one is actually in late January, it's called Endless Referrals: The Go-Giver Way. We limit those to about 50 people, so it's over two days and it's very hands on. So those are the ones that will be the public ones that we'll be doing from now on. And I have so many great mates in Australia, and if I could beam myself there I would do that in a minute. But the long flight, I just don't travel well anymore, so. Josh: Well I've [crosstalk 00:46:15]. Bob Burg: I stay pretty close to home. Josh: It took me two weeks to get over the jet lag when I last entered The States. I know this is pretty bad, but give me your favourite Aussie accent. Your best Aussie accent. Bob Burg: Oh, let's see. Hey mate, lovely to see you. Love all my mates down there, and we'll have a good time no worries, no worries. Josh: That sound pretty good. I don't mind that, that's good. Bob Burg: We love Australians, we love our Aussie mates so it's always a neat thing, and it's always a joy to connect with any of my friends from the beautiful land down under. Josh: Well I had the opportunity to head over for three months last year so I was travelling all around the place. And I'd have to say it's like you're travelling to different countries with each state that you go to. Bob Burg: Oh, it's amazing I know. Josh: Where Australia is in my opinion more so not as diverse. You have parts that are definitely greener and parts that are more tropical, but overall the accent doesn't vary a whole bunch. The people mentality, that doesn't change a whole bunch. Except for obviously things such as you go into the middle of the city in New York, and you go to Sydney and there's the hustle and bustle. People aren't as friendly, but that's just the nature of the beast. And for anyone who does want to head to any of your opportunities that you've got either in-person or any of the content that you have, you've got the Go-Giver movement, is that right? Bob Burg: Yeah. General website is Burg B-U-R-G.com. The two day workshop is Endlessreferrals.com, and we also have Thegogiver.com. So we've got content all over the place there. Josh: We'll chuck some links down below, all the appropriate places depending on where this gets seen. You can jump across there and have a bit of a look. And I'd like to thank you for coming along and talking with me. And we've got this beautiful summer day in paradise here, that's why I thought I'd head outside. Is there anything else that you'd like to cover off on before we jump? Bob Burg: No, this has been a lot of fun, very enjoyable. And I wish everybody who is watching and listening, I just wish you a fantastic 2020, may it be your best year yet. Josh: Thank you very much Bob, and I appreciate you coming along. Bob Burg: Thank you.

People literally ask me this one question ALL THE TIME… “Allen, how did come up with such a lucrative, safe, and easy way to trade?” I explain it all in my new book Passive Trading, get your free book here  https://www.passivetrading.com/free-book!   Option Genius was built with you...the individual trader, the breadwinner, the dreamer, the rock your family depends on ...in mind. Because we know what it takes to become a successful and profitable trader. And that’s exactly what we help you do best. Get your $1 trial of Simon Says Options, our most conservative and profitable trading service here https://simonsaysoptions.com/stockslist-ss-trial-offer.  -- Do you ever feel doubt before you put on a trade? A little feeling that, "Oh my God, I don't know if I should do this one. Oh geez, I don't know if this is going to work out. Is this a good idea to do this trade or do it right now? Maybe I should wait, maybe not." We all do. It's normal. It's part of trading because when we're trading, we need to be right, but we can never be 100% certain. There's no a hundred percent guaranteed sure thing trade that we can have no doubt about it and just put it on and be like, "Yes, I'm going to make money on this trade." It doesn't work that way. Anything could happen. That's why trading is so lucrative because you're dealing with the unknown. You're kind of like Elsa in Frozen 2, you're going into the unknown and that's what traders get paid for. And that's what we as investors have to take into account and we have to overcome, because I've seen, especially newer traders, that doubt that fear stops them in their tracks, where they don't put on trades or once they put on a trade, they don't want to touch it. They don't want to adjust it. They don't want to get out and so what could of been a small loss turns into a big loss or what could have been an awesome trade gets skipped because they're just afraid. There was one fellow in particular, his name was Jim, taught him the whole strategy. He knew it backwards and forwards. He could recite it to me better than I could myself. He knew the rules of the strategy. He knew the rules of the trade and he could put a trade on almost better than anybody else, but the doubt of losing money or the fear of losing money would keep him from not staying in the trade. He would always jump out well before he was supposed to, and so he could not make a positive winning trade because he just kept getting out too fast. Anytime he would start losing a little bit of money, he would jump out even though that's not the way selling options works. A lot of times you put on a trade where you sell options and it might be negative for a few days. You might be sitting on a loss, eventually time to gain kicks in and that loss starts to go away and eventually turns out, hopefully in your favor. But even with the odds in our side, even with time on our side, there are no slam dunks. There is no 100%. And so in this episode I wanted to talk about a way that you can overcome this doubt and put yourself in a situation that will be beneficial so that you have a little bit more confidence going into your trade, so you feel not only better about yourself, but a better about the trade as well. So I have to tell you about a cartoon. It's funny, right? We're going to talk about trading, but we're going to learn about trading through a cartoon. There's this cartoon called Bob the Builder. Now Bob cartoon series started back in 1999, and he is a nice fellow. He's a cartoon. He's not a regular cartoon. He's little bit animated, little different type of animation than your average Mickey Mouse or your Cinderella type cartoon. But anyway, Bob runs a construction company and all of his employees are construction equipment. So the backhoe and the bulldozer and the whole makey-thingy machine, they're all his employees or partners or friends or whatever, and they all talk. And in every episode they're given different jobs to do around town and build this or do this or pay that or whatever, and eventually they get into trouble. And so Bob comes to the rescue and he has to motivate his team because now they're all sad that something bad happened and they don't know what to do about it. So Bob comes in and he asks them this one question. he goes, "Guys, can we fix it?" And all of his teammates, they all get excited and they'll smile and say, "Yes, we can fix it. We can do it," and that's how he motivates them. That's how he gets them on his side. That's how he gets them all upbeat and ready to do whatever is needed. And then they find a solution and then they put it into place and it works, and there's always a happy ending in every episode. Now when it comes to motivation, asking a question is a little bit counterintuitive because whenever you talk to or listen to or read any of the self-help, motivational speaker type gurus out there, they don't tell you to ask questions. They tell you to be authoritative. The Tony Robbins or the Jack Canfields, Og Mandinos, Napoleon Hills, all these guys, they all tell you to do the same thing. They tell you to say an affirmation and be positive and tell yourself how good you are and how smart you are and how wonderful you are and how everything's going to work out for the best. Put it out into the universe and it's going to happen and talk as if it's already happened. Not, "I'm going to make $1 million," but, "I've already made $1 million," kind of thing. So which one of these philosophies actually works better? Is it the question where, "Can I fix it?" Or is it the statement where, "I can fix it"? which one works better? Now in order to figure out the answers, we turn to some researchers. There was a group of researchers from the University of Illinois and also the University of Southern Mississippi who wanted to figure this out. So they ran a series of experiments in which they gathered several participants and they had to solve puzzles. Okay? The first experiment, the basic one, they basically broke them up into two different groups and the first group was told to ask themselves whether they would solve the puzzles. Basically, "Hey, ask yourself. Use a question and say, 'Will I solve the puzzle?'" The second group was told to tell themselves that they will solve the puzzles, so very authoritative. Be like, "Yes, I'm going to solve the puzzle." Which group do you think did better? Well, the group that asked themselves if they're going to solve the puzzles, solved 50% more puzzles than the other group. And then they repeated this experiment in multiple ways, they did it with writing. They had the subjects write down, before the experiment, the words will I or the words I will and the group that's wrote will I, again, solved 50% more puzzles. Why is this? Well, researchers, they did more studies and more research and they tried to figure this out. They came up with two reasons. The first reason is that by its very form, when you ask a question, you give yourself an answer. So if we're going to ask ourself a question and say, "Should I put this trade on," or "Am I a good trader?" Instead of saying, "I'm a good trader, I'm a great trader. I'm going to trade, trade, trade." It doesn't help you overcome a lot of fear of if you should be doing that particular trade. It doesn't make sense. When you ask yourself the question, you give yourself an answer automatic. So if the question is, "Should I do this trade?" or "Should I be a trader?" or "Should I be an investor? Should I invest in this?" The answer comes back to, "Yes" or "No." And if it's a, "Yes," then you're going to give yourself a reason or an answer. "Why?" And if it's a, "No," you're probably going to come up with a reason why and if it's a good reason, then you can fix that so that you can go and do the trade. The second reason is that the self-talk, when you're talking to yourself, when you're asking a question and you're telling yourself the answer, it helps you to visualize your end goal, and that goal becomes an intrinsic goal instead of an extrinsic goal. So it's going to be more about, "If I put this trade on, if I do a good trade, then I'll feel better about myself," versus "Oh yeah, I'm a good trader. I'm going to go get me a Ferrari," kind of thing. So those two reasons were what researchers came up with. Now when we're putting on a trade, again, there's no sure thing. Of course experience helps, but if there's a bear market, if there's a high volatility market, if things are going on that have never happened before, then even experienced traders don't know what to do. And we have doubts and say, "Man, should I be really doing this trade? Should I be putting this trade on?" And if you're feeling that doubt, then you can ask yourself a series of questions instead of just trying to pump yourself up. Now I definitely believe that you should pump yourself up if you're feeling doubt, and if you cannot even do a single trade, then you need to ask these questions even more. But if you're feeling that hesitation, "Oh, man, I don't know if I should do this," that means that something's not aligned physically, emotionally, spiritually. Maybe something is not aligned with your trade and you need to get to the bottom of it and ask yourself some questions. One of the questions would be, "Should I even be doing this trade?" It's not a question of, "Can I trade? Can I be a trader?" Yes, you can be a trader. If you don't know that, then I'm telling you right now, yes, you can be a successful trader. There are other people out there that are stupider than you that are doing well at it. Okay? I'm sure that you can do it. "Can I be a trader? Can I be a successful investor at that?" That question, let's just take it off the table. The answer is yes. If you don't believe it, I'm telling you the answer is yes. Okay? Now the next question is, "Should I do a particular trade?" And when you ask yourself that question, then you have to dig in further and you have to justify it and you just say, "Oh, I heard Jim Cramer on his Mad Money show talk about XYZ stock and the CEO came and I really liked the guy's tie so I'm going to buy this company and I think the shares are going to go up." That's not a very good reason, right? "Should I buy that stock?" If that's the reason, because you liked the guy's tie, maybe when you say that to yourself, when you answer that question, "Should I do this trade?" And you tell yourself, "I'm doing it because I like the guy's tie," I think you'll figure it out yourself that, "Okay. That's not a good reason. Maybe I should do a little bit more research or maybe I don't do the trade." But once you ask that question, "Should I do the trade?" it leads you to the next question, "What do I expect the trade to happen? What happens if the best case scenario happens? What happens if the worst case scenario happens? What do I think the stock's going to do and what happens or what do I do to the trade if it works out in my favor? What do I do if the trade doesn't work out?" That way, you're prepared for both eventualities. If it works out, great. You know what to do. You know how to get out and you get to be happy. If it doesn't work out, you're prepared in advance for anything that could happen, especially if it doesn't work out in your favor, but you know in advance, so that eliminates some of the doubt. If you know you have a justification for why you're doing the trade, if you have some reasons, if you know what you're going to do if the trade works out in your favor, if you know what you're going to do if the trade doesn't work in your favor. It goes against you. If you know what you're going to do in advance, it takes away doubt. So if you've been having trouble putting on trades, whenever you listen to this, the market might be topsy-turvy. It may be very volatile. It might be going straight up. It might be going straight down, might be going sideways. I don't know. But in all markets, there are trades that are possible to be made. If you're feeling doubt, that's your self telling you that something is not aligned. And yes, you could be just rah-ing yourself and telling yourself, "Yeah, yeah. I'm going to make $100,000 today," or "I'm going to make $100 today trading. I'm going to be do this, rah rah. I'm the best trader in the world. Woo-hoo," or you can be real and you can ask yourself some questions and use that as a way to pump you up and to motivate you. So can you fix it? Yes, you can because Bob Builder does and that's how he motivates his staff. Now in Bob's case, he's a cartoon. His viewership, his audience, is little children. So whenever he says, "Can we fix it?" All the little kids that are watching, they respond with, "Yes, we can." I don't want us to say, "Can we trade?" because that's not the right question for us. We're not trying to get little kids to give us a positive answer. We're not asking the question for anybody else. We're asking the question for ourselves. "Can we trade?" is not the right question. It should be based on each individual trade. "Should I be doing this trade?" and you have to have a legitimate reason. If you do have a legitimate reason and you know what you're going to do in advance, that will help you cut through the doubt. And actually, if you put on the trade and keep your head in the trade, in the game, while the trade is going on so you don't lose your cool, you don't get caught like a deer in the headlights and not know what to do if the trade goes against you. I hope this was helpful. If you have doubt, listen to this a couple times, go through the process. It definitely helps. Remember trade with the odds in your favor. PassiveTrading.com OptionGenius.com -- LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/ WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP:  https://optiongenius.com/alliance Like our show? 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So you’re stuck at home with you’re streaming subscriptions, binging through the likes of the Fraiser, Cybil and, inexplicably, ALF. But wouldn’t you rather the familiar warmth of a camera-ready cappuccino? Or the kenspeckled earworm of an odorous feline? Maybe the sagging eyeline of some stalker named Ross? Sure, Friends may no longer be streaming on Netflix but that doesn’t mean we can’t still talk about them. So Bob and Tim are there for you with this repost of a 2017 binge of four episodes from season 3. It’s The One Where No One Is Ready, The One With The Race Car Bed, The One With The Flashback and probably at least one that reminds us how Ross is a jerk. Insert frantic clapping sound clip here!The use of audio and video clips linked from YOUTUBE are for educational purposes and without the expressed permission of their legal holding companies.  All rights remain with with their original distributor.This episode of 20TH CENTURY POP! was recorded by CAST, an online audio platform that lets you create and record a multi-guest podcast straight from your web-browser.    It was then mastered by AUPHONIC, a web-based post-production service that makes it sound like Bob and Tim are worth listening to.  Check out both sights for trial and subscription information.MUSIC FEATURED IN TODAY’S EPISODE:“Super Poupi ” (opening theme) and “Time For The Walk Of The Day” performed by Komiku from the 2018 album POUPI'S INCREDIBLE ADVENTURES available at Freemusicarchives.org.   Cleared for public domain use through Creative Commons under a CCO 1.0 Universal License.   Subscribe to 20TH CENTURY POP! on APPLE PODCASTS, SPOTIFY,  STITCHER and ANDROID or stream it at www.20popcast.com.Like, share and reminisce with 20TH CENTURY POP! on FACEBOOKFollow whats not 20th Century Fox with 20TH CENTURY POP! @20popcast on TWITTER.And crop a square snapshot with 20TH CENTURY POP!@20popcast on INSTAGRAM.Contact the show with any questions, suggestions or possible topics with #20popcast on Twitter or by emailing 20popcast@gmail.com.Follow ROBERT CANNING @rhcanning on TWITTER. Read his web-comic BOB HAS ISSUES on Twitter @Bobissues. Follow TIM BLEVINS @subcultist on TWITTER and as @subcultist on INSTAGRAM.  20TH CENTURY POP! will return next week with Balki, Urkel and hopefully a character you can stand.This podcast is powered by Pinecast.

There’s a Cap on Coffee Cups I Put it in the Suggestion Box. This is So Bob and Sheri. Morons in the news. Singer Matt Nathanson. Bob’s Broadcasting from Space. Lamar Reviews the Air Fryer. Sheri Figures Out How to Ditch School. Ginger’s Bad Movie Nights. Talking About Your First Fight. Bob’s in the Kissing Booth. Overhearing the 1st Date. My Bumble Date Was a Clown. They’re Confused by What’s on Bob’s Shirt.

Cynthia Marquez:            "Sometimes to begin a new story, you have to let the old one end." Author unknown. I am Cynthia Marquez and I am a Tri-City influencer. Paul Casey:                         Keep reinforcing that everyone must place the common good of the team above their own agenda. If one area wins, the whole team wins. Speaker 3:                           Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self leadership expert, Paul Casey interviews local CEO's, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success. Paul Casey:                         Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Bob Wilkinson. He's the president of Mission Support Alliance and fun fact about you Bob is? Bob W.:                                Let's see,, I'll go with I'm a big fan of candy corn. So some people love that, some people hate it. I got requested to have some desserts from my family, so I brought some cupcakes that are candy corn cupcakes, much to the demise of my daughters, who were very unhappy with that. Paul Casey:                         I too am a candy corn fan. So we unite over that. Well we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-City influencer sponsors. Neal Taylor:                        Hello, my name is Neal Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's Commercial Transactions team. The CT team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derek. Derek Johnson:                 Thanks Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington state simply don't have handbooks, employee policies, or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees, even if the employee isn't properly performing or are causing issues at work. Even if an employer fire someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable and protective employee policies to protect our client's business. Neal Taylor:                        That's true. Thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policies, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today www.gravislaw.com. Paul Casey:                         Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well welcome Bob. I was privileged to meet you at a Leadership Tri-Cities conclusion. You had come in, you had mentioned Mission Support Alliance had supported Leadership Tri-Cities and the class and you came in on the last day and you shared some leadership tidbits. I'm like, I want to interview that guy. So I remember that day. Bob W.:                                I must have had some good notes given to me. Paul Casey:                         Yeah so take us back a little bit. What did you aspire to be when you grow up? What's been your journey along the way to the positions that you're in right now? Bob W.:                                It's interesting, I think my journey was a little bit by happenstance, but as I look back on it, it kind of ultimately fit where I really wanted to go in life. So my original career aspirations, like most kids my age at that time frame, was to play professional sports. And so- Paul Casey:                         Of course. Bob W.:                                Started off wanting to be a professional basketball player and height was a problem and had a significant influence in my life early by a high school football coach in a local community at Troxell, who really turned me on to football. And football became my passion. I went on to play collegiately and while I was in college, I was given the choice when I went from a scholarship to Montana State University, I met with the counselors about what career path to go and I said, "Oh I think I want to be an engineer." Bob W.:                                And they proceeded to write down on a piece of paper how much it would take, time to take to be an engineer, plus go to practice, plus do all those things. And summed me up to 26 hours in a 24 hour day and I hadn't slept yet. So ultimately I went into general studies and started general studies, went to business, took a couple of business classes, thought I wanted to be an educator. Started to take a couple of engineering courses and ultimately ended up getting an electrical engineering degree. But in that process, and one of the things that... The second part of that, that I really always wanted to do was coach. I wanted to be a football coach, wanted to be a basketball coach, wanted to coach at high school and maybe even on a college level. Bob W.:                                And ultimately I decided that money was more important to me than coaching at that time. Right, wrong, or indifferent. So my career started off in electrical engineering as a construction engineer. And slowly but surely kind of went from construction engineering, got thrown to the wolves right out of the gate, joined a group that had five or six project engineers that were running construction jobs and they all left in the first three months. So I was fresh out of college in charge of about $50 million in work scope that I really didn't know what I was doing. So I learned very quickly to rely upon a lot of people around me to be able to help me through that process, which was a big influence for the rest of my career to this point. And influenced a little bit from my dad. Bob W.:                                So long story short is, that went into operations management and supervising and then eventually becoming more of a little bit of in the management and general management. And at the core, the thing that I probably enjoy most about what I do is I've come to the conclusion I really like building teams. And allowing teams of individuals, whether those are engineers or managers, or anything else for that matter, kind of centered around a common focus and executing to that common focus. Paul Casey:                         The building teams part, was that from the sports or did you have some other lessons that sports sort of stayed with you and you bring to now leadership? Bob W.:                                I think it's a little bit of both. I take a great deal of pride in watching people succeed at whatever they're succeeding at. Not everybody has the same trajectory or wants in their lives and not everybody brings the same talents to the table. The nice thing is when you can put them together. And I'll use it in a football analogy, when you have linemen, defensive players, offensive players, quarterbacks, receivers, but everybody's working to a common goal, it's truly impressive to watch. And I take joy out of that and I take joy in watching people do things. Bob W.:                                It stems a little bit from me, my father told me when I was young and it has resonated with me for the rest of my life, is always try to get those around you that are smarter than you and more capable than you and let them be successful at what they are. And take every opportunity you can to learn from them. And so I've always attempted as best I can, no matter who I'm working with, for, or peers, or they report to me, to be able to find the highest, most talented people I can and help encourage them. And in the second time and then try to learn from them. Right? Paul Casey:                         Yeah that's fantastic. Along your journey, were you sort of summoned into positions or to did you aspire to be promoted as you made your way up the ladder? Bob W.:                                I would say I had interest in attaining the next level. I'm a highly hyper competitive person, so when I roll into a new role or opportunity, I'm always evaluating what it would take to be the person above me's role. I think that helps me provide them the service that they need to help manage up. But embedded in that, my opportunities in many cases stem from I've been a little bit young in my career in many cases into roles that I've moved into. And most of the roles I moved into for a period of time were roles that nobody else would take. They were troubled spots. I've had a couple of... One of my first plant manager roles that I was offered to take, the exiting plant manager that I was replacing, that he'd hired me into, told me I would be fired within a year. Not because I wasn't capable, because anybody that was in that role was not going to be successful. Bob W.:                                So part of my journey has always been along the roles of we have a problem here and this is going to be nasty. And I was more than willing I guess to kind of step into it to try and make a difference. And really that difference in many cases just had to do with, back to the point of I've been very fortunate to have a lot of very capable people around me that I either reported to, that worked for me, or that I worked with. Right? Paul Casey:                         I love that principle leading up that you said that you were always watching to see what does it take to do that job above you. And that's a great principle leading up for those that want to move up the ladder. Bob W.:                                Yeah. For me, it wasn't so much necessarily to move up the ladder, but in order for me... If your boss isn't successful, you're probably not going to be successful. Paul Casey:                         Very true. Bob W.:                                At the same time, in order to make sure that I could meet my expectations, part of what I always try to analyze is how do I give my boss whatever they need? And or, how do I help my boss in their weak areas in some cases, right? Everybody's got weaknesses and how do I supplement those weaknesses to where they're not weaknesses for them? They're strengths. And so that's just something that I've kind of always attempted to do. Sometimes better than others, but it's something I've always attempted. Paul Casey:                         Bosses love that. Bob W.:                                Yeah. Sometimes. Paul Casey:                         Well when you got in this position at MSA, what was your original vision and how has that morphed along your journey at the company? Bob W.:                                Well my current position as the president at MSA has been interesting. I've been there almost now two years and so a couple of years before that I was offered to become the COO and at the same time was with my predecessor, the president of the company, Bill Johnson at that time and came into Mission Support Alliance. The reason, frankly why I was selected for the COO role was I was there to supplement his weakness area in that he hadn't been a long-term Hanford person, so he didn't know the Hanford landscape. But he was considered to be a very good leader and he is and was and one of the best individuals I ever worked for. So together, really what we came in to do was Mission Support Alliance is there to really to enable the other Hanford contractors. We're the supporting role to do all the things behind the scenes to really to allow the other contractors that are doing that critical high risk work to do that. Bob W.:                                Being on the other side and being one of those other contractors at that time, one of the things that I think Mission Support Alliance was always struggling with was an understanding of truly what was needed on the other side to really truly enable them and be a true service provider. And what I mean by true service provider is not only give a service, but give a service in a way that they actually help them enable to do that. And so that was really what I aspired to initially as the COO and together as the president. And we made some adjustments, we brought some balance I think to people that actually spent time in the field and other venues with what I'll say, a kind of a commercialized approach to how to do that business and tried to meld those two together. Bob W.:                                And I think we had some success with that. So when I became the president, it was really to kind of continue the journey of really enabling and streamline in that part of the process and continue with some of that momentum that we built. I was able to bring in a lady by the name of Amy Basche that I've worked with before, that's from the business side of the house, where I'm really heavily strong in ops, back to pick the right person for the role around you. And she's been an incredible talent that we brought on that's helped us really start to shift into the next phases of this larger Hanford landscape as the mission continues to now kind of shift focus into eventually doing vitrification. Paul Casey:                         Yeah, I met Bill. Before I started doing this podcast, I did an old John Maxwell thing, which was take a leader to lunch and so I would do the same thing I'm doing now, asking questions to learn and grow myself. And Bill was the last one I think I had done that before I started the podcast and then the next month, he announced that he was leaving. And you were in that position of COO at that time. And he showed me in his office the... Was it an assessment that you guys took to what everybody's personality and strengths and weaknesses? Do you remember that? Bob W.:                                Yep. Oh yeah. We use an individual by the name of Luther Johnson that kind of came in and really kind of did an assessment that really told you, basically from about two years, two on, what you really are as an individual at your root base. So when you're on your high, high stress, you go back to that root base. It really is the phase you're acting in now, but also the base. And so it was interesting. So there's the thinker, the harmonizer, a rebel, and a couple of other ones. And it was interesting. So the harmonizer is one that's really highly tied to emotions. And the video they show is basically a couple of people up on screen crying. And sure enough, I'm a harmonizer. So I'm sitting there watching this thinking, wow, that doesn't look like me. I don't remember crying like that. Bob W.:                                But then we got into a little bit more depth about it's really about your emotions being kind of how you feel and what you do. And so anyways, Bill... Coupled with Bill, who's a strong thinker, who's a very logically based individual. And they start talking about the dynamics of how people interact when they have those different perspectives and they go on under stress. And so Bill and I were able to compliment each other very well there and it helped us give us insight on how to do that. Because Bill is very logical, very, very thinking, very smart. And of course I'm passionate about certain things, so we balance each other sometimes. And then sometimes we rotate it. So he'd always commonly joke that says, I just want everybody in the room to know that I'm the harmonizer today, not Bob. Right? So when he was being the nice guy in the room. Paul Casey:                         That's funny. Yeah. I'll still never forget the answer when I asked him, "How do you achieve work life balance?" And he said, "It's the team I put around me." Which it sounds like that's your philosophy too, from what you've already said a couple of times today, is I know that when I leave work I can shut off. Obviously I can get an emergency call or whatever, but for the most part I know all my people are carrying out the mission. And that is my best secret to work life balance. Bob W.:                                Yeah. And I think he's 100% right. I think in society we have a tendency to want to overload and within America, it's work till you drop. I think at some point you lose productivity if you don't have a fine balance of literally working and then having a balance of whatever your life is, to a degree, right? Whether it's your family, whether it's a hobby or whether there's having a balance. And I think a leader's responsibility is to ensure that they instill that culture by having the right amount of people and the right people in the right situations. And then making sure that you stay true to that. Paul Casey:                         Yeah. Well let's go there. You mentioned culture, you mentioned teams. So when you build a team, you create a culture. I know that starts with getting the right people on the bus. So what are you looking for when you're hiring? How do you assess everyone's on the right seat on the bus? What are the values you try to instill? All that stuff. Bob W.:                                Yeah so for me, I think it starts with when you go to hire somebody, you obviously need to make sure that somebody checks the blocks and has the skills that you're looking for. If it's an engineer, that they're an engineer. But that's really just I think a check in the blocks. For me, it's finding the right personality, the right type of individual that can interact and establish relationships and work in different cultures and climates and different people. And so to me, it's more the person, is who the person is, is more of a factor on whether they're going to succeed or not. From there I think it's when you get them on the bus, whatever the bus is that you're on. We all bring, even if we are a good relationship builders or good at working with other people and have a good skill set, we all have our natural tendencies, right? Bob W.:                                Some people are really hard pushers, some people really need to digest information for a period of time before they can do that. And then it's really identifying that and taking advantage of that from a team perspective that allows that person to be the most successful that they can in that environment. I once had an individual work for me that was a strong thinker, super, super intelligent guy, and I got frustrated when I first started working with him because when I was younger in my career because I'd ask him for something and I'm a quick decision maker. I make decisions pretty rapidly, but he's not. He's one of those ones that really had to digest information and it took me a little while to figure that out. Bob W.:                                But after I figured out that, okay, I can't give him something and ask him to give me an answer back in three seconds. It's not fair. He's not cut from that cloth. But if I give him something in advance and let him digest it and bring it back, usually what he always brought back to me was far better than anything I could have ever thought of. And so back to having the right people and then use them in the right situations. And that was a way to identify how to do that. Paul Casey:                         Yeah, studying your people so you know how to custom communicate with them. That's good. That's good. How do you keep your people affirmed, inspired over the long haul? Bob W.:                                That's a great question. I think that never ends. I think that's always ongoing. And I think that to a degree, it has to do with instilling value and purpose for everybody. Constantly evaluating that value and purpose, giving people a voice and allowing them to actually execute on that voice. So if you don't ask people for his opinions and don't allow people to act upon those opinions when you ask them and allow them to be successful, even though it might not be exactly what you wanted to do, you're probably not going to inspire them in a longer period of time to go off and achieve. And I think that is kind of an ever ongoing evolution that your kind of constantly evolving and constantly giving people opportunities and allow them to succeed in those opportunities. Paul Casey:                         Yeah. So Tri-City Influencer, it sounds like giving people a voice really is critical for their full engagement. No one wants to get stale in their leadership. So Bob, how do you stay relevant and on the cutting edge in your industry and how do you foster innovation in your organization? Bob W.:                                A couple of ways. That's a pretty round question or pretty large question. So I'll try to hit it in a couple of different areas. I'll start with the innovations. So we are in an ever evolving world right now that technology almost can't keep up with. We work in an industry that I work in with the department of energy industry that's highly regulated for a lot of reasons, right? There's a lot of hazards and you want to make sure to protect people. And those high regulations sometimes comes with a lot of hoops that you've got to jump through. Bob W.:                                So part of ours for innovations is to make sure that we have identified the right innovation that we need to bring to the table that has the right purpose because the effort to go put that innovation in place is quite a large lift. But if you've got high talented people, which we have some very, very innovative people, we just need to let them, once again, tell them what's the right one... Or ask them what the right one was and let them tell us and then give them the backing to actually go do it. And so that helps them with the inspiration part. Paul Casey:                         Yes. Bob W.:                                Right? So that was the first part of the question. I don't remember what the second part of the question was. Paul Casey:                         Staying relevant. Bob W.:                                Staying relevant for me, from a leadership perspective and to me is I have always... I do a lot of reflecting on myself, probably to the detriment of myself. So I do a lot of reflecting and look at myself and then try to adapt or modify myself to continue to enhance my capabilities. But I don't look for radical changes. I think at the core is you got to know who you are as an individual and stay true to that, who you are as an individual. And then I take obviously leadership opportunities. I take some leadership classes and from those you get something, right? There's a little bit of something. So I always just try to find that little something, then maybe I can go make a change. Bob W.:                                And then been back to the people around me, I learn a lot from those that I work around, watching how they do what they do well. Because frankly, I have leaders that work for me that are better leaders than me and in certain aspects and maybe all aspects. I have a great boss that I work with and I learn a lot from. So I take a lot of opportunity to try to learn from others and watch what they do well, as well as what they don't do well. Paul Casey:                         That was fantastic. Every person and every opportunity is a learning experience. I used to be a school principal in another life and I visited 52 other schools for that exact reason because there was something to learn in each one of those schools that I... What is it? The R and D, rip off and duplicate? I think that's what it's called. A little R and D on those visits to make my school the best it could be. So yeah, learning is awesome. Bob W.:                                The one thing I'd just like to add to that is I once went to a leadership seminar, it was women talking about leadership, inspiring leadership. And it was Carol Johnson from the local community that used to be a president of WCH back in the... Seven, eight years ago. And she said something that really resonated with me, is she said that she struggled to be a leader for a part of her career because she was trying to emulate her bosses. And her bosses were strong minded, strong willed- Paul Casey:                         Totally different style. Yeah. Bob W.:                                Yeah totally different style. And she just wasn't doing very well as a leader in that. And she finally realized that in order for her to be successful as a leader, she needed to be who she was. Which she's a very empathetic person, makes you feel very comfortable, very good with relationships. And she finally shifted to that. And she said that then she finally realized who she was and what her strengths were and stayed true to her strengths and tried not being somebody that she wasn't. And it worked well for her. She had a very good career and she was a really good leader and so that resonated with me a lot. Paul Casey:                         Yeah, authenticity and staying true to your strengths. Well hey, before we head into our next question, asking Bob what a good day is for him, a shout out to our sponsors. Paul Casey:                         When you purchase a new car, you hope that the warranty will be there if there are any problems. When men and women choose a life partner, there is no warranty and we're essentially committing to a relationship on an as is basis. That's great when the romance is high and the challenges are few. What about when the demands of career, finances and welcoming children into the mix happens? If it's a car, you know that regular service and maintenance can keep it running so that it lasts far after the warranty expires. Even the best model on the road however, will run down and begin to have problems if these crucial steps are not done. How is this like a longterm relationship? Do we just assume that it will last without periodic maintenance? Making certain that quality time together, staying connected physically, or communicating daily can support the ability of the relationship to last. Paul Casey:                         Just like anything of value, a committed relationship needs periodic maintenance and tune ups to keep it connected and exciting. When was the last time you considered a tuneup or engine check for your relationship? Sadly, many couples wait on an average of five years before they seek counseling or therapy to help them sort out what's not working. Don't wait. If communicating has become difficult, if trying to solve the smallest problem is leading to arguing or not speaking to one another or the challenges of parenting are driving each of you into different corners, be willing to seek help to get your relationship back on track. You know it can help you with that? Lynn Stedman, marriage and family therapist. Call (509) 366-1023. Paul Casey:                         So Bob, what makes it a good day for you personally? When you look back at the end of the day and you go, it was a good day. What kinds of things went on in that day to make it a good day for you? Bob W.:                                To me it was a good day is feeling like progress was made. I'm a very progress oriented person that I got to see something move forward. Sometimes that's a little nebulous on moving forward so and obviously finishing a project, making a progress on it. But to me, even more so is watching the excitement and folks being proud about what they do to deliver whatever that is. Watching the individual complete their task and in many cases watching a leader be successful with their group to show growth, to show accomplishment, back to that almost that coaching and that kind of that coaching, that teamwork part of it. Those are really important to me. Bob W.:                                And then probably one of my best days is finding out well after something's gone a long time ago to talk about legacy and leaving legacy, about seeing somebody be successful that you had some positive influence on that may have been years and years past that now you're watching them in their career and in their role do well. Or acknowledge, hey, I just did something that you told me I could have done a while ago and look, I just did it right there. That is... It's almost- Paul Casey:                         Like a proud papa. Bob W.:                                It's almost like a proud papa kind of to a degree, But it happens a lot. Right? And so you just never know the legacy that you leave behind with you. And I think to me, that's an important part is to make sure you left things better than when you came in. Paul Casey:                         Yeah. Because leadership is hard. So those moments where you get to relish in seeing someone in their sweet spot rock something with their team, is a very fulfilling leadership. Bob W.:                                Leadership is a very up and down heartbeat type of a role, right? There are highs and there are lows and there are everything in between. And so you got to focus on the highs when you have them and try to minimize those lows, whatever they happen. Paul Casey:                         All right, let's go behind the scenes in your life. Here are your best habits and your worst habits. Mr introspection. Bob W.:                                I don't know that I have a good habit. I'm not so sure. So I think my good habit is probably that I recognize to a degree that I am average. So I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. I didn't get the best grades in school. I'd call myself a mediocre leader when it comes top to bottom. And I think I share the fact that I recognize that and use that to my leverage to allow other people to be better in those areas is something that I try to resonate and be proud of. Be humble about, to recognize that I'm not better than somebody else. Paul Casey:                         Yeah, I was going to say humility is what you're trying to define. Bob W.:                                Yeah. Yeah. And so my bad habits, some of my bad habits are... Geez, I've got a lot of them, right? I like to eat too much. I still eat like I'm a football player in college. I struggle with my weight. So my wife reminds me that I'm... She would define it as passionate about certain subjects that sometimes I really dig into and am hard to get off that subject. And I have a great wife and great daughters and great friends that remind me when I'm off center on something. With a baseball bat sometimes across the head to remind me that I should not be that way. So that's probably my worst habit I would say, minus my eating. Paul Casey:                         So since you're introspective, do you have your own personal growth plan that every year you either re-up or modify or anything like that? Bob W.:                                I don't know that I do. I don't have a written personal growth plan. I clearly have items that I am always striving to decide where I need to improve upon and evaluate. Being the reflective person that you called introspective, I think I drive my wife crazy in that I have a tendency when I know I have a big conversation coming up the next day with somebody that's going to be a potentially a controversial one, a hard conversation, I will play that conversation out in my mind before the conversation 55,000 different ways. Paul Casey:                         That's called rehearsing. Bob W.:                                It is to a degree. If this happens, this individual might react this way. I mean do they do that? And then on the backend of it is... And I drive some of my team nuts sometimes too is... And I'll do it off today too, is when I walk out of here after this podcast and this conversation with you, I will process this podcast and I will dissect it six ways to Sunday about where I did good, where I didn't do good, where I could've done something, said something different. I should've done that right. Oh I did this pretty well. And so my reflection is almost real time and never ending, which is I guess maybe a bad thing. Sometimes it's hard to get out of my own head when it becomes that. But that's just how I've always been. Paul Casey:                         Yeah. The good thing is everything's worth evaluating. Anything worth doing is worth evaluating. So that's the good part. The bad part is that rehearsing in your head- Bob W.:                                Stop the evaluation. Paul Casey:                         Yeah. At what point do you just go, all right, it's over? How about a favorite quote? Do you have a favorite quote? Bob W.:                                No, I don't know that I have quite a favorite quote. But I have up on my wall, one of the presidents, and I can't remember off the top of my head which one it is now, that really talked about the man in the arena. It's called the man in the arena if you look it up, right? Paul Casey:                         Roosevelt I think. Bob W.:                                Yeah I think it was Roosevelt. And in summary, it kind of goes along the lines of there is always those that are on the periphery of things, but not willing to step in the fight. But the man or in this case woman or person that's willing to step in the fight and have that move forward is really the true winner. And so to me is and it stems back to these roles that I've taken is, there are always those that are willing to sit on the periphery and throw rocks and stones at everything you do. But the people that I really admire are the ones that are willing to step in the middle of that arena and attempt to make it a difference. Right? To go off and try to do something to make things better. And so for me that's important and that quote resonates with me a lot. So I can't... It's about three paragraphs. Paul Casey:                         I think it's whose face is marred with dust and blood or something in that one. I'll have to put that in the show notes. I'll dig it up. How about a book that every leader should read? Bob W.:                                I like Maxwell books just because they're simple to read. Paul Casey:                         Me too. Bob W.:                                I like the 21 laws. Paul Casey:                         Classic. Bob W.:                                To me, I'm a simple digestive information and if you get things too technical, it just goes right on top of my head. And that one you can pick up, you can easy to resonate with, you can get your mind wrapped around it. For me, that one resonates well with me. I think every one of them you can learn from. It just really depends on what you like. Right now I got the General Mattis books, right? The Call to Chaos and I'm just getting into that. But I find him to be an incredible individual and somebody that I've always seen to be very forthright in how he talks to the point of being blunt, but in a way that doesn't offend. And so I think that establishing trust with people is willing to have a hard conversation and a hard dialogue to tell them the honest truth, which in society right now, today, in some cases people don't like, don't want to have honest truth conversations. Paul Casey:                         True. Bob W.:                                Or they can't have it in a way that doesn't completely offend the other person. Right? And so I'm kind of finding that one pretty intriguing and pretty interesting right now. Paul Casey:                         So if you left a letter on your desk for the leader who came after you, there's going to be a day. All of these contract renewal things, right? There's going to be a leader that comes after you. What would you put in that letter to that person? Bob W.:                                I think it would start with just trust yourself and trust the people around you. We in society sometimes have a tendency to not want to trust people around you or think that people are doing something with ill intentions. And I've said this and I say this to our company a lot and to our folks in leadership, that nobody comes to work or nobody does anything on a day with intentions of causing ill harm. Paul Casey:                         Right. Bob W.:                                They come to be successful and do something successful. So trust those around you, that they have a noble intention. Paul Casey:                         Some positive intent. Yeah I love that. Bob W.:                                Yeah they have a noble intention and then encourage them to attain that and give them the backing to allow them to do it and stand back and watch them do it. Paul Casey:                         Mm-hmm (affirmative) any other advice you'd give to new leaders or anyone that wants to keep growing and gaining more influence? Bob W.:                                I don't know that there's ever a new leader. I think you always in your life are always leading in some way or another. Whether you're trying to lead your sibling into a game or lead your parents into making a decision to give you McDonald's or whatever the case is. So my thing to new leaders is don't be afraid to be a leader. Don't be afraid to step up and take the assignments and don't be afraid to take the hard assignments. And then take every opportunity you can to learn. Paul Casey:                         Good stuff. How can our listeners best connect with you? Bob W.:                                Oh boy. Well I obviously am a Tri-Citian and I've been here most of my life. I work out at Mission Support Alliance. We're in both the Hanford system as well as in the Tri-Cities. You can hook up with me on Facebook or on LinkedIn. I'm a lot more active on LinkedIn than I am on Facebook. My wife, I let them do the Facebook stuff for me. I should probably do it more often, but I'm in both those LinkedIn and Facebook space. Paul Casey:                         Yes. Love LinkedIn. Well thanks Bob for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. Started a new aspect of my business called leader launcher. Leader launcher is for emerging leaders and young professionals who want to go on a leadership development journey. And so it's a monthly, two hour workshop on one leadership proficiency and then in between the months seminars is a mastermind group where you get to apply what you have learned with other leaders here in the community. So you can go to leader-launcher.com to sign up and hope you'll be a part of that community. Paul Casey:                         Again, this is Paul Casey. You want to thank my guest, Bob Wilkinson from Mission Support Alliance for being here today on the Tri-City Influencer Podcast. We want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you both making this possible so we can collaborate to help inspire leaders in our community. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's an Albert Einstein quote. "Try not to become a man or woman of success, but rather try to become a man or woman of value." KGF, keep growing forward. Speaker 3:                           Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org. for a consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Speaker 3:                           Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day by offering you his free control mind calendar checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalendar.com for that productivity tool. Or open a text message to 72000 and type the word growing. Paul Casey:                         Tri-Cities Influencer Podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.  

Due to schedule issues we have another bonus episode this week. So Bob and Alex watched 2 matches from the first Starcade in 1983. First is the brutal Dog Collar match b/t Roddy Piper and Greg “The Hammer” Valentine. And then a cage match for the NWA world title b/t Ric Flair and Harley Race. Blood, bodyslams, laser shows and more this week! Next week Jake will be back and bring a guest to review Mania X. Until then buy your tickets to see Frosty at Go Comedy!

Hear how voice of the Atlanta Hawks got started behind the microphone at the age of 12! - On this episode of C Level, I talk with Bob Rathbun, announcer for the NBA Atlanta Hawks. So Bob, thank you for coming down. - My pleasure. - So, I know a little bit of your background but for the small percentage of people that don't know you, give me your story, how did ya get started out and...? - Sure, I grew up in Salisbury, North Carolina. - [Chris] Okay. - My dad was transferred in the company he worked for, and it turned out to be probably the greatest thing that ever happened to the family and to me. And one day, when I was 12 years old, I don't remember being prodded by my parents, I just did it on my own, I picked up the telephone and I called the radio station in our hometown. - At 12? - [Bob Rathbun] At 12-years-old. - Okay. - WSTP, Salisbury, North Carolina. And I told the announcer on duty, now remember this is a teeny, tiny station. And the announcer on duty, a gentleman with the name of John Bulser answered the phone, and this is a thousand years ago, right? And I said to him I love the station and I like listening to sports and all that. He said, "Well, come on down, I'll give you a tour." So my mom and dad took me down and I got a tour of the station and instantly fell in love with it. And that turned into an every Sunday ritual, where John would be announcing and I would go down and I would do stuff that 12 year old kids would do, took out the garbage, you know. - Do what you could, sweep the floor, right? - Right, exactly. And did things that now, nobody knows what you're talking about. I filed records. - [Chris] Oh wow, yeah. - And I cleared the wire. You say that to somebody today, cleared the wire? - What are you talking about? Right. - But, you know, those of us who know, it's the teletiming, and that's how the news came in. So that's what I did and one Sunday, the sportscaster showed up and he said, "Well, if you love sports and you love radio, help us broadcast these American Legion baseball games." We had a great team, a state championship team. Everybody in town loved them, high school kids. And they packed the park to watch them and that's why the games were bring broadcasted on the radio. And I would keep stats and get the guy a hotdog and that was it until one day, at age 12, the announcer says, "Well," and I'll tell you his name in a minute. He said, "Are you ready to make your debut?" And I said, "Well, I guess I am." and I got the mic in the bottom of the seventh inning of this baseball game. And this team hit three home runs all season, two inside the park and one when I had the mic. Our first baseman, big left-handed hitting guy named Joey Brown turns on. Oh this is forever ago, and he turns on one and skys it over the fence, over the scoreboard, over the Coke sign, gone, home run, and I got to call it. I have no idea what I said. - It's the excitement. - The announcer got the mic back at the top of the eighth inning and he said, "Ladies and gentlemen, I've been waiting all season to call a home run." He said, "When we hit one, I got this 12 year old kid on the mic." - That's awesome. - And that's how it started for me. The announcer was Marty Brennaman. And if you're, any baseball fans in the audience know him as the Hall of Fame announcer for the Cincinnati Reds, who is going to retire in 2019 at age 77. Still going strong, but he's gonna finally call it quits. And he was just beginning his career at that point, coming out of college, and so that's how we got linked at that age. And my voice was a little higher than him - Just at 12, you know?

Becoming a Champion Course http://bit.ly/2MYWs1e Champions Table Mastermind http://bit.ly/2YW00Yv Success Champions Podcast https://link.chtbl.com/R76Z4v0O Success Champions Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/Succe... Free Stuff http://bit.ly/2KGWwji Website https://www.DonnieBoivin.com Sponsors https://www.pointblanksafety.com/ https://bluefamilyfund.com/ Transcription: Here we go. Alright guys gonna be another fun episode, which you guys don't didn't get to hear. This is my second time trying to start this show because Bob got me giggling already. So I sound like a little schoolgirl over here, but this is going to be a fun show. So Bob and I talked a few weeks back and we just had a really good conversation and went all over the place. So I was looking forward to this one. But I'm Donnie Boivin. This is Donnie success champions. I almost screwed it up again. Bob say you're welcome to the show, my friend, please. Hey, Donnie, Listen, man, it's good to be here with you. You know, my story is probably you probably don't have enough time on your podcast to hear the long boring parts. Trust me, nobody wants to hear all that anyway. So now listen, you know, I think you're going to find this maybe to be kind of weird, and your guests might find this to be a little bit weird, but Had the the advantage of growing up on the on the border of poor. And you people look at that and go an advantage. And then listen, I don't mean we went hungry or anything like that, but man, there were no extras. And and so that inspired me. I still remember being 10 years old and asking my parents for something and then telling me you wish don't have the money for that. And I don't even remember what it was Donnie, but I remember deciding, well, you know what I want it. So I'm going to figure out how to how to make the money to buy it. And that was sort of that was sort of the start of my ambitious journey, I guess. And I, you know, out of out of five kids, I think I was the only one with an entrepreneurial gene. And I guess some people are just wired differently. But I mean, you know, my sort of entrepreneurial journey started. I spent six months selling new Oldsmobile. That was an interesting business. And frankly, I really didn't like car business a whole lot, mostly because it didn't really fit my core. And I think when something just doesn't fit, kind of your core values, personality, whatever, you're just not going to be as successful as as you could otherwise be. Nothing listeners at all. So long time ago was 1986 when I was in the car business, but one thing that I did like about it was I in that business, I started earning four or five times the money that I was used to earning. And I said, Man, I don't like the car business, but I could get used to making this kind of money. And so the car business led to my really kind of first chance I had to be in charge Myself, which is four years selling residential real estate. And then that led to a 17 year career in frankly, what I thought would be my career portal, which was in financial services, love that business. But I found that I would see both clients I work with, and reps I hired and trained sabotage themselves and their financial success. And the more I saw it, the more bothered me and it but it was kind of the impetus that led to me studying the psychology of what I call the psychology of human action in action. You know, what in the world makes people do the things they do, or not do the things that they don't do. And I learned a lot about what, what really are the drivers for people, and it helped me a lot personally. And so I ended up writing my first book, and after 17 years in that in History, I decided I was going to start my own company strictly to do personal achievement training. And wrote the book, it was sort of a has a basics of what that was all about. It's called discovering your greatness. subtitle, the higher level thinking and action guide. And, interestingly enough, a couple years into running a new company, we're doing okay. But okay, wasn't what I had in mind. And I thought, you know, we need some better ideas here. And I really started studying about creative thinking and innovative thinking. And what I discovered was teaching people how to do that. Help them get a better image of themselves. And when you're thinking better about yourself, and especially if you can have some During that process, it's just a whole different world. And so most of the work that we do now with spearpoint solutions, is really involved with innovative thinking, training on that. I do do some consulting with companies to develop strategies, you're using those principles that I teach. Because I find sometimes, you know, I talk to CEOs or managers and they go, you know, you're pretty good at this stuff. Why don't you just help us develop some strategies and instead of training our people, so either way, it's good with me, and it's kind of a long and winding road to get where I am now, but I you know, what I found there's almost nobody. Now almost no successful person that I've ever met, had a straight pathway and Okay, well, what's your experience been with that? No, it's the same brother. It's the same. Yeah, I'm really fascinated with this whole idea of these kids. Right, you know, because that wasn't me, right? That wasn't my story. That wasn't my journey. I, I didn't think about starting a business until I was 40. You know, I tell everybody, I'm a late bloomer. You know, so I'm really, you know, this whole idea that that you're born an entrepreneur really, really floors me kind of a bit because I don't fully wrap my head around how you got to that space. Do you think it's mean? I mean, I know you said it was because you were 10 years old. Right. And that, you know, there was something that you wanted to buy, you couldn't buy, you know, but how does that translate to years of creation? years ago? Well, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, no, that's a good question. And I don't know that I was necessarily born an entrepreneur. Exactly. But I think some people are common one. wired to be ambitious. And some people just are okay with just being okay. And there's nothing wrong with either, you know, whatever fits you and your lifestyle and your goals. I think what, that's fine, right? I make no judgments. I just know that, you know, for for somebody like me to aspire to average it's just not in my DNA. I love that phrase. Here's why I'm catching a lot of buzz because of something I say on stage. But I mean, you pretty much just said it. It's really just this quote, you either get okay being okay. Or you get in the game, otherwise Shut the hell up. Because because there's a lot of people that keep telling the world I'm going to be great. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in truth, they're not Taking the action to do the things they need to do, to level up, scale up and go for it. So I, I wish people would, you know, stop taking on the world telling them how awesome they would be and truly just start enjoying the life that they have, versus making themselves feel miserable, because they're not doing the things they thought they should. That makes sense. Well, it does. And two thoughts come to mind as you're saying that I heard a long time ago, a phrase that stuck with me, says, When all is said and done, there's usually more said than done. True. Right. And look, talk is cheap brother. Nope. It's easy to do. It's way easier to do than taking action and getting your nose bloodied. Right, and tripping and falling, that it's much easier. So anybody can talk a good game. Yep. Right. But it's it, but it's people who it's the doers of the world. You know, I talked about a lot about developing better ideas. And I think that's a key critical component. Right? Because a bad ideas even perfectly executed is still a bad idea. Yes, but but, you know, I think you ought to start with with better ideas and better strategies. But having said that, the greatest strategies with the most perfect plan, not executed don't add any value to anybody. So you know, so you've got to have, you know, if I could make an analogy, in physics, you've got theoretical physicists and experimental physicist, and they're both necessary to move That field forward. So, so but the the theoretical, the theories of the theoretical physicists are only proven by the experimental businesses, right. But the experimental physicists are maybe not the best theoretical physicist. So it's sort of like the symbiosis between a songwriter and a gifted performer. A this is a this is a bit of trivia here. You know, Elvis Presley had I think 38 number one songs, or 38, top 10 songs. It was a bunch, right. Okay. And and how many of those did he write or co write? Man I don't and to have an answer that but but since you're asking I'm going to say zero It is zero. Now, you can become world famous as a performer. Right? And you don't have to be able to write songs. But the flip side of that is, you can write great songs and other people perform them. And you can be great that way too. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the way I look at as a at creating winning strategies for people is, you know, I'm like the songwriter, and they're like Elvis Presley. Right? They gotta go perform those strategies in order for them to be great. Yeah, no, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I there's and you I'm sure you've heard the hero's journey by Joseph Campbell. Oh, sure. Yeah. And I love this because one I grew up you know, watching the fantasy movies and reading the Lord ring books and all that kind of stuff. So I can totally vibe with this whole theory and philosophy out there. But but to what I love about it is this whole dynamic of the guiding the hero. And I think what you're saying is, in a sense when you're working with these companies, you're the guide but they're the hero and the hero is still gotta go slay the damn dragon. Right? They still gotta go execute No matter whatever plan you build out or anything, you know, you put together for them. They still got to put the work in and do the things to make it a successful endeavor. It's like in sales. You know, you can, you know, talk about cold calling all day long, but until you pick up the damn phone and actually dial the number, you know, you know you've got nothing is that pretty much? Hey, listen, that's that's a My apologies. I Hey guys, I failed to put my phone on Do Not Disturb. Let me let me let me correct that now. Sorry about that brother. Okay, so yeah, I should have known better. This is not my first trip around the block on. Oh yeah, we're gonna make this one though. Yeah I know I deserve it. I deserve 50 lashes with a wet noodle at dawn. You know it's kind of like in you in Lord of the Rings. These guys get these special weapons. Right Aragorn got the special sword. Frodo via Bilbo had the the special weapon his size, but they still had to wield those weapons. Yeah, right. So there's no doubt and I think you're spot on on what you're saying and You know, it's like, I've got a new book that's going to be out. By the time this airs, it should be out on Amazon. And it's and it features 101 great, sort of many business strategies. And and it's dinner can innovative thinking methods in there that people can use to come up with their own. But they still got to apply those things right, no matter how brilliant they are. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm sure you've experienced this, you know, you're standing in front of a room, you're talking to a crowd. And after the you're done talking to them, whether it's a speech or a training, whatever, someone walks up to you and says, that is one of the greatest things I've ever heard. And I take it two ways. One, my ego gets stroked, and I'm like, Yes, awesome. I did my job. And then the second thing goes through my head is wasn't great enough. And I'll usually ask that person, you know, are you going to go back and implement what we talked about today? And it's weird the responses. And I'm curious, you know, one, have you experienced it? And to have you watched the almost shocked reaction sometimes when you've asked that question? Oh, yeah, I listen, I think anybody that's done any, any keynote speaking or any training and you're in front of large groups has experienced that. Look, I think if you're a decent speaker, you can get people motivated. Yes, but the but the challenge with motivation is, is it's temporary, right? It's easy to get, you know, people's adrenaline pumped up and, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think you ought to live your life in an excited enthusiastic fashion but What I prefer to do, and this is where I think, you know, the training on the skill set of innovative thinking, especially the way we do it, where it's, you know, it's practical hands on, it's not standing up in front of a room with PowerPoints, or just about, you know, me being a keynote speaker is, you know, inspire people with, with a mindset of, Hey, you know what, I can do this, because they've actually experienced it right there. And they've, you know, when we do our training with the game I invented, which is kind of a basic innovative thinking game, but it puts it into a competitive format and it's fun and people laugh. When we're doing that. In a training. I say here, two things over and over one people laugh their heads off, and and second is your people go As people coming up with ideas and strategies, like Wow, that's really good. But I'll tell you afterwards dying. People come up to me and some people, they'll tell me overtly, and some people just kind of see by their to change in their physiology. That, you know, they surprised themselves at how they were able to think in a way and come up with ideas that they didn't expect. And, and I can totally relate to that. But they you can tell, right, that it's just like, No, I'm over sharper than I thought I was. Right, I'm all better than maybe I've been giving myself credit for. And when you get that, then you know that you've inspired you sort of, you sort of inspire something that they had inside them all along, but they just weren't aware of it. Yeah, I love those things go ahead is most people have never bet on themselves. Right? So when you can put them in an environment where they are forced to do something they haven't done and I'm not talking about walking across a rope bridge or you know, some tire swing thing or something, you know, but taking an action that will mentally allow them to grow and get them out of their comfort zone. You are, in a sense, forcibly helping them to evolve, and you can see it, and it's awesome. I mean, I it's a really cool change in people. So how does your game get them to do that? Well, the game is structured in a way that I say it has three elements. One, it's got some structure in it, there's a gameplay format to, it feels like fun rather than work. And three, it embraces competitiveness. Right? And everybody, I don't care, the most non competitive person, you know, when they feel like they've got a chance to win, they get competitive. Yes. And so what the game does is a little difficult in just an audio only environment. But you've got two teams. One is the entrepreneur, the inventor, we sort of use those terms interchangeably. Second Team is the competitor. And then the third team who's not competing in that round is the customer. And so each team A and B, gets a set of 10 words, and they use this innovative thinking process to match any of those two words together. And come up with an idea for a product, a service or business. And it gets three minutes to do that you will think three minutes is that long. But people surprise themselves. There's there's great power I found there's great power in have to. Yes. Right you when you have to get something done, you will. And when you don't usually want this Chan. Yeah. So so then each team, you know gets a separate set of words, they're coming up with an idea in three minutes and at the end of three minutes. They each take one minute and present to the customer team, what their product service or business is, how it works and what the benefits of the customer is. And then the customer decides, hey, do I like this team's idea better? Do I like this team's idea better. there's a there's a scoring system and play moves around the board where everybody's playing each Roll, you know, at any given time, and listen, I had a client come up to me after a training session once and he said, you know what the greatest part of this game is? And I said, What says a with David? So let's that David, he said when you when you were and when you lose, you still win, right? Yeah it's a blast. I love that you know, and here's something else that that I think your game is is getting people to do. It's forcing them to make decisions and and you know, a lot of life people get stalled with the inability to make a decision. So when you put them in a group atmosphere and you say you got three minutes to come up with a service, you know, a product or anything else. That's awesome, because I mean, that's a fast decision. And a lot of people struggle with making decisions at that speed and living and dying with the consequences. That's brilliant, but I commend you for for coming up with something innovative like that in a training format that, you know, one brings people together makes them think outside of the cliche word the box but also forces them to make those fast decisions because you know, studies have shown you know, the faster you make decisions, the better you can do in life and business because you don't get stuck. Good. I Where did this whole game evolved from? It was it was it? Yeah, that's no, that's a good question. For most of my adult life, I really didn't picture myself as a creative individual. But as I alluded to before, it's great power and have to and and in aspiring to take our company to a better level. I said, You know what? I don't really think I'm great at coming up with good ideas, but probably some books written on creativity, right? And I've got a book, which I highly recommend you have in mind that's coming out. I highly recommend this one the most. It's called Tinker toys. sinker is thinker toys like the child's toy Tinker toys. Okay? Think toys, and they're probably, they're probably 12 dozen different creative thinking techniques in there. And I tell you, if you are not used to thinking creatively, and you don't really view yourself as being a creative person, some of those look a little bit complex at first, but I discovered one in there called combine a story play, which sounds complicated, but it's not. That I learned later was both Einstein And Da Vinci's favorite creative thinking method. And look, all it is, is combining two things together and seeing what a third four possibilities occur. Do you mind if I give you an example? Please do I'm fascinated. If I let me, I first have to let you know that people don't think in words they think in pictures, true apps, right? So if I say the word dog, you're not thinking about the characters for the letter D, oh, and G you're thinking about a dog that you know, have no right and probably a dog that you owner have. If I say the word kitchen, you're thinking, the the image of the kitchen pops into your mind, right? Yep. But if you start combining words together, especially nouns, if I combine dog and kitchen together, or kitchen and dog together the new possibilities, start eliminating From my imaginative ability, you know, here's what's crazy about that is kitchen dog, I didn't have a whole lot of thought process around. But when you said dog kitchen, the first thing that popped in my head was, could there be a company I know there's our that that could make dog biscuits, or you know, you know, dog food, things in it. I know there's a ton out there, but I would never start one of those type of companies. But that's where my mind went to really cool thought process. And if you have an imagined you had a set of those nouns, right, not just a couple of work from, but if you had a set of those, and you had a direction to work with those. That's the whole point of come up with an idea for a new product service or business or an improvement on something that already exists, right? And some of the stuff that emanates from from just that little simple method and playing that game is It's practically astounding. Have you had anybody come to the game leave their company and because they started a business? I have had, I've had a number of people tell me stories about the things that they're working on. But look, it goes back to the challenges you were talking about before. You know, just coming up with an idea. Even if it's a multimillion dollar idea. It doesn't do anybody any good, even you right? If you don't act on it. Like, I have people tell me all the time when they when they find out. I have written a book. Our company published another one that I curated the content for and I have another one coming out. And so I can't tell you it's hundreds probably people told me Oh, yeah, I'm thinking about writing a book to write right now. How long you gonna think about it right? Now so and yeah, it's it's the inaction and people man it's a we're all guilty in some regards I mean, with our businesses and things we need to be doing, you know, and then help, you know, for me going from an employee to business owner was such a damn leap because I didn't realize how badly ingrained I was, you know, ingrained with this employee mindset before I started running my company, and I still find it, you know, not creating a job versus a business for myself. And, you know, it's it's that when when you get mired down with all the stuff, it's remembering to put one foot forward and start knocking things down. So you can keep moving forward because what, as soon as all those spinning plates like you're the clown with all the plates Getting up in the air. You can sit there and be mesmerised, how pretty all those plates look. But until you start knocking those plates off the frickin sticks. You're not gonna be able to move anywhere and go anywhere, you're gonna stay mesmerised, and action takes care of all that. And the biggest thing people always say, Well, what action do I take? I'm like the first one in front of you. Hey, listen, amen to that. It's hard to steer a car that's in park. Yes. Said. Right. So, look at start taking some action. You know, in my first book, there's a after, after you set your goals, then what should you do when you start taking action and what you think is the best direction, right? Because I found that as you begin to take action, you can Little signals and clues on which way to go. It's like, it's like your goals, the destination you've determined to get to. They act like a GPS that you get off track. You're going to figure that out as you go. Right. But that phrase as you go, is the critical one. Yep. Yeah, yeah. This is gonna be fun. So I love it when people bring up goal setting. And here's why. You ready for this? I'm ready. Goal setting doesn't work is actually a D motivator. And here's what I mean. And I love having this conversation is when somebody sets a goal. They are nine times out of 10 setting a goal they already believe they can achieve then They're going to fake it till they make it, in a sense lie to themselves that they're going to get there. When you set yourself up immediately for failure, not planned failure, but to fail, you lose. So I quit setting goals A while back, and I flipped it. And I set milestones and here's what I mean. I believe you should have a general vision of where you want to go. Okay, General vision, what you want to do. But I'll always take it back to sales. Let's say you've sold $10,000 a month. And you come back to your sales manager and that last year, you sold you know, $120,000, you look at your sales manager and say, this year, I'm going to sell a million dollars. And that manager is going to ask you a cool how you going to do that? The answer is always I'm going to work harder. Right? You know, which never works. Right, you know, so what I would tell if I was that sales manager tell that young sales person is let's do this, instead of setting that million dollar quota let's see if you can do 11,000 Let's get you to 11,000 get there, and then we still do 11,002 months. Can we then get the 12,000 and then 13 and you start teaching incremental growth and start getting people to learn and evolve, how to level up and then start moving forward. And and I'm curious now hearing my philosophy of course, it's my show so I have to be right. Your opinion make it mine. Right, exactly. Right. thoughts. I mean, because I mean, for you We were brought up in this world of set goals, set goals. And as you get this executive area, and it's a big, hairy, audacious goals and all this stuff, but people don't do the work. Right goes back to our whole thought talking around action. They're not doing the work. So that's why I flipped everything over to milestones because people can wrap their head around. How do I just get to my next, my next small level so I can grow? Well, this is my philosophy on goals. goals should be two things. Now, I'm not saying that you should not have a one year, five year 10 year vision. You should, but five years is a long time. Right? Especially in this age, unless there's over 1800 days in five years. So there's no sense of urgency. So I think you should set your You should have a vision for one year, you should have a vision for five years, maybe even for 10 years. But your goals ought not to be any more than 90 days at a time. For the second thing, and here's why, because there's no sense of urgency. If you miss one day out of 1800. That's not that big of a deal. But if you screw up one day out of 90, much more of a big deal, right? Right. So there's a so there's a, there's a an urgency of action in that. But here's the other thing and you you alluded to kind of a 10 x goal, which I know is kind of a catch phrase in today's world. But the problem with a 10 x goal is it's not believable to you right? Right. And I tell people look set stretching Lee realistic goals. And while I say stretching Lee realistic, I use those two terms again. For reason, you know, the most you've ever made in a year. And this funny, I just laid a couple different mastermind groups. And we were just talking about this very concept and in a mastermind group session an hour ago. And I said, you know, it's the most you've ever earned any year. Or let's, let's break it down to a quarter most you've ever earned in a quarter is 50 grand. And you set a goal to make to 50. The first thought you're going to have when you look at that as go, there's no way Yeah, right. funnel, see how I can get there. It's too high of a plateau. But the example that I was using in in that group, I said, you know, $100,000 in a year, used to seem like all the money in the world to me, right? until I got there. And that became anyway Listen, once you hit that, then you can start looking at 150. Right. And once you hit 150, you know, it doesn't seem like that far of a stretch to 250. And you get to 250 and 500 doesn't seem too far of a stretch. Now I have a friend of mine 2018 and I think he made about two and a half million. And I remember years ago, we were together in the financial services industry. And I remember he had he had just hit his first hundred thousand dollar month and income. And he was going to hit over a million that year. Total. And he said, Bill, he said his bill, he said Bob, earning a million it. I don't work any harder than when I was struggling to make 60 grand. Right. But the thought process, the focus, the execution was way different. Right. Right. So, so that I, it's been my experience, you know, everybody has their own philosophy and I think you're, whatever you're doing that works for you. That's what you ought to keep doing. So, I think we're saying a lot of the same things because you were talking about, okay, you know, if you did 50 a quarter, you know, getting the 250s a leap. What if you're going from 50 and 60? Alright, cool. Next back believable right, next quarter, can I get to 70? And, you know, because you have to evolve as an individual because the person you are right now is not the person you need to become to get to where you want to go. You have got to level up or get okay being okay. Because because, yeah, there's so many people that are They're, you know, telling the world how awesome they're going to be, and not executing. And all they're doing is making themselves miserable. Enjoy the life you have. And understand that your income level if you live inside your means you'd have a very happy life. But most people don't want to do that. Right? Yeah, they look, most people would rather grow their income to meet their dreams instead of tricking their dreams to meet their current income. True, was it right? So, but look, so many people are trying to go so far they're trying to make quantum leaps. And I'm not saying that you can't do that because I've done that a couple of times, right? But it's not the quantum leaps that matter as much as the consistent growth. system it can be consistent, small group, right? What if you're What if each month or maybe even each week, you try to get 1% better? Just 1% right mean 1% that it sounds like nothing. And yet over time, if you got 1% better, even a month, right 1% better a month, over the course of a year or two or three. That's massive growth. Very much true. And you know, but people want to believe in the overnight success, which is there's no such thing. They want to believe that there's an easy button. They want to believe that there's, you know, some magic pill or something. They don't want to do the work. You know, and they don't understand that you've got to go through it to become it. Oh, that's a great phrase. Absolutely, I'm gonna get a T shirt, maybe with a habit. You know, but that's it. I mean is people want the soft and easy and sweet and fluffy route when they don't realize that if you go in to fail on purpose, you can actually level up faster. Wow, that's where you learn the most. Right, right. I mean, when you screw up it, I tell people, Donnie, the reason I know how to do a lot of things, right? It's because I've done a wrong almost every possible way. Right? Right. I've screwed up so much. Right. And you alluded to this before. Your most overnight successes take at least a decade. Yes. You know, but people Well, people don't see that right? Or maybe they're willfully blind. And so I will No, I don't see that you know this person. You'll put in all this extra effort that they, they did things I like to tell people look, you got to do stuff to be consistent about about progress, even when you don't feel like it. Yes. Right. Even when you feel like sitting your butt on the couch and watching that episode of Laverne and Shirley that you've seen three times, right? You just age the hell out of yourself. Just so you know. Well, okay, how about that, that that that rerun of Grey's Anatomy. There you go. There Big Bang Theory. Yeah, frankly, I'll gonna make happen. Your audience mad probably I don't get the appeal that show. Oh, I love it. Love it. Yeah, but you know what? That's why they make different colors of car exhaust. Everybody don't like the same stuff. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. I never know this show is gonna go sometimes it's always fun. It's always fun. You know, you've been really doing some cool things on your ride. some really cool things on your journey. I mean, you've done some cool stuff. Where's all this taking you? You know, you got new books coming out. You've had a couple of books, you're doing some speaking. You know what's what's being on the horizon for you. Then the next big thing is happening in 2019. Hopefully in the first half of 2019. I'm not 100% in control of this. So I can just tell you this is my intent is We are launching up to this point all the training that we've done has been face to face. But we are launching an online training portfolio or a portal I should say. That is going to train people up on how to think innovatively. But listen, the, the most exciting part of that is, is we're creating a, an interface where that small business person out there who might have 25 or 50 or 100 people that are working for their company. They'd love to be able to be like Procter and Gamble or International Harvester GM, some of these big companies that have thousands and thousands of employees and, and they can sort of crowdsource innovation internally. Well, if you got a company that has 100 people, you can crowdsource Internally, but it's not a very big crowd, right? So what if what if there was a way for that small entrepreneur to access the knowledge, experience and imagination of this vast army of people that have been trained how to think innovatively and they don't have to add anybody to their payroll? Right? They don't have to, nobody's taken up any more room in their building. They're paying no more benefits, and they only pay for the solutions that fit them. Well, that's interesting. That would be kind of a big deal, wouldn't it? Be that level the playing field for them, it would make them able to compete and have all that talent, access to it, just like big companies do. And on the flip side of that, Donnie is these people that have been Train to think innovatively, they bring their own set of knowledge and experience to the table. And they can look at that and they can exercise that entrepreneurial gene without having to go start their own company. Because it gives them potential extra source of income. So, the win for everybody? Yeah, yeah, no, I like that a lot. Was this was this concept born out of y'all need or you saw a gap in the marketplace? No, I just see that that look. There's a yo you got now this advent of so much automation, especially with AI. that a lot of jobs that are being done by people now are going to be done by people in the future. They're going to be done. And I don't mean the final need mean along the way future I mean, the near term future right, the next 135 years 10 years at the most. And so those people are going to need different skill sets. I think, as I was telling him on his podcast recently, it's temporarily terrible for those people when they lose their job, right? But it's only temporary, right? Because once they acquire the new skill sets needed to do the 21st century work, they're probably going to end up doing work that's more fun. It's probably more fulfilling, and frankly, because it brings more value to the marketplace, it probably pays more. And so they've got to learn these new skill set. And Chief among those, I believe, is how to think innovatively and apply that to practical solutions in business in life. And the sad part is, is our traditional education system isn't doing that. Yeah. So, you know, you can complain about that. But as opposed to complaining about things, I like to do something about them. And I see this big gap that's unfilled that companies like ours, so I'm sure we're not gonna be the only one are going to fill in the gaps there to get people trained in the skill sets that they need, you know, to thrive in the 21st century instead of just barely survive. Absolutely. That's well done. But it's a it's a really, really, really cool concept. I think you're going to help you know a lot of people on their journey level up. Good on you. Good on you. Thank you. We have a goal to help millions. Yeah, I know I should. I know I shouldn't set a goal Donnie, but can be taught this whole time. I wasn't sure but dang just proved. That that's my vision. Anyway. I love it. I love it. I love it. You know You know, here's here's the thing. There are certain individuals in this world that can set a goal, like a guy like Gary Vee Gary V's biggest thing. He tells everybody he's gonna buy the New York Jets. Right? Right. Right, like Gary Vee may very well get there, because that drives him that motivates them that charges him up. But it's such a few minority of people that are that driven, you know, innately to get there. So I like your big vision. Now bust your ass to get there. Well, if you're right, it can do you mind if I throw out sort of another thought in terms of goals? What I have found is that people don't set goals based on what they really want. They don't set their true goals. If they set goals at all. They're setting them based on what they think they ought to want. what somebody else wants them to want. You know, my sales man, my sales manager said, This is my quota. So that's my goal, right? What does that mean? There's no, if you're not setting goals that are your true goals, then there's no emotional power to them. So there's no driver for action. So you're setting yourself up for failure. If that's the kind of goals you're setting 100% agree. Hundred percent agree. Well said, Well said. Well, brother, can you believe it's been almost an hour already? Time flies when you're having fun, brother. Well, you know, I mean, when you're around me, you have no choice but to have fun. So So. Yeah, well, no, I this has been a blast. And by the way, time flies when you're having fun or not, so you're exactly right. Exactly. Well, my friend, how do people find you? How do they get in touch with you? How do they reach out? How do they make funny Yeah, you know, look, LinkedIn. Like my home on the internet, I just I love that platform. If it's done right, I think it's extremely productive. And, and you can meet people from all around the globe. And so LinkedIn is probably the best place to find me. It is linkedin.com slash IN slash Bob Sager VOB SAG on. love it love it. Well, this is how I like to wrap up every show. And I do stump some people on this. So So stand by, if you are going to leave the champion to listen to the show entrepreneurs, business owners, people from 78 countries around the world that tune in Listen to this. If you are going to leave them with a quote, a saying a phrase, a mantra or a motto, something they can take with them on their journey, especially if they're stacked up against it and going through it. What would be that quote or phrase you would say? Remember this? Remember this this is from Arthur Ashe. Arthur Ashe said, start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can Love it. Love it. That's Sage sage advice, my friend. It's been so fun having you on here. I've really really enjoyed it. Thanks for you know, coming in sharing your story and having some fun conversations and some laughs So So thanks for doing this but hey, Donnie, it's been fun being on what you Thanks for having me. Awesome. Well

Becoming a Champion Course http://bit.ly/2MYWs1e Champions Table Mastermind http://bit.ly/2YW00Yv Success Champions Podcast https://link.chtbl.com/R76Z4v0O Success Champions Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/Succe... Free Stuff http://bit.ly/2KGWwji Website https://www.DonnieBoivin.com Sponsors https://www.pointblanksafety.com/ https://bluefamilyfund.com/ Transcription: Here we go. Alright guys gonna be another fun episode, which you guys don't didn't get to hear. This is my second time trying to start this show because Bob got me giggling already. So I sound like a little schoolgirl over here, but this is going to be a fun show. So Bob and I talked a few weeks back and we just had a really good conversation and went all over the place. So I was looking forward to this one. But I'm Donnie Boivin. This is Donnie success champions. I almost screwed it up again. Bob say you're welcome to the show, my friend, please. Hey, Donnie, Listen, man, it's good to be here with you. You know, my story is probably you probably don't have enough time on your podcast to hear the long boring parts. Trust me, nobody wants to hear all that anyway. So now listen, you know, I think you're going to find this maybe to be kind of weird, and your guests might find this to be a little bit weird, but Had the the advantage of growing up on the on the border of poor. And you people look at that and go an advantage. And then listen, I don't mean we went hungry or anything like that, but man, there were no extras. And and so that inspired me. I still remember being 10 years old and asking my parents for something and then telling me you wish don't have the money for that. And I don't even remember what it was Donnie, but I remember deciding, well, you know what I want it. So I'm going to figure out how to how to make the money to buy it. And that was sort of that was sort of the start of my ambitious journey, I guess. And I, you know, out of out of five kids, I think I was the only one with an entrepreneurial gene. And I guess some people are just wired differently. But I mean, you know, my sort of entrepreneurial journey started. I spent six months selling new Oldsmobile. That was an interesting business. And frankly, I really didn't like car business a whole lot, mostly because it didn't really fit my core. And I think when something just doesn't fit, kind of your core values, personality, whatever, you're just not going to be as successful as as you could otherwise be. Nothing listeners at all. So long time ago was 1986 when I was in the car business, but one thing that I did like about it was I in that business, I started earning four or five times the money that I was used to earning. And I said, Man, I don't like the car business, but I could get used to making this kind of money. And so the car business led to my really kind of first chance I had to be in charge Myself, which is four years selling residential real estate. And then that led to a 17 year career in frankly, what I thought would be my career portal, which was in financial services, love that business. But I found that I would see both clients I work with, and reps I hired and trained sabotage themselves and their financial success. And the more I saw it, the more bothered me and it but it was kind of the impetus that led to me studying the psychology of what I call the psychology of human action in action. You know, what in the world makes people do the things they do, or not do the things that they don't do. And I learned a lot about what, what really are the drivers for people, and it helped me a lot personally. And so I ended up writing my first book, and after 17 years in that in History, I decided I was going to start my own company strictly to do personal achievement training. And wrote the book, it was sort of a has a basics of what that was all about. It's called discovering your greatness. subtitle, the higher level thinking and action guide. And, interestingly enough, a couple years into running a new company, we're doing okay. But okay, wasn't what I had in mind. And I thought, you know, we need some better ideas here. And I really started studying about creative thinking and innovative thinking. And what I discovered was teaching people how to do that. Help them get a better image of themselves. And when you're thinking better about yourself, and especially if you can have some During that process, it's just a whole different world. And so most of the work that we do now with spearpoint solutions, is really involved with innovative thinking, training on that. I do do some consulting with companies to develop strategies, you're using those principles that I teach. Because I find sometimes, you know, I talk to CEOs or managers and they go, you know, you're pretty good at this stuff. Why don't you just help us develop some strategies and instead of training our people, so either way, it's good with me, and it's kind of a long and winding road to get where I am now, but I you know, what I found there's almost nobody. Now almost no successful person that I've ever met, had a straight pathway and Okay, well, what's your experience been with that? No, it's the same brother. It's the same. Yeah, I'm really fascinated with this whole idea of these kids. Right, you know, because that wasn't me, right? That wasn't my story. That wasn't my journey. I, I didn't think about starting a business until I was 40. You know, I tell everybody, I'm a late bloomer. You know, so I'm really, you know, this whole idea that that you're born an entrepreneur really, really floors me kind of a bit because I don't fully wrap my head around how you got to that space. Do you think it's mean? I mean, I know you said it was because you were 10 years old. Right. And that, you know, there was something that you wanted to buy, you couldn't buy, you know, but how does that translate to years of creation? years ago? Well, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, no, that's a good question. And I don't know that I was necessarily born an entrepreneur. Exactly. But I think some people are common one. wired to be ambitious. And some people just are okay with just being okay. And there's nothing wrong with either, you know, whatever fits you and your lifestyle and your goals. I think what, that's fine, right? I make no judgments. I just know that, you know, for for somebody like me to aspire to average it's just not in my DNA. I love that phrase. Here's why I'm catching a lot of buzz because of something I say on stage. But I mean, you pretty much just said it. It's really just this quote, you either get okay being okay. Or you get in the game, otherwise Shut the hell up. Because because there's a lot of people that keep telling the world I'm going to be great. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in truth, they're not Taking the action to do the things they need to do, to level up, scale up and go for it. So I, I wish people would, you know, stop taking on the world telling them how awesome they would be and truly just start enjoying the life that they have, versus making themselves feel miserable, because they're not doing the things they thought they should. That makes sense. Well, it does. And two thoughts come to mind as you're saying that I heard a long time ago, a phrase that stuck with me, says, When all is said and done, there's usually more said than done. True. Right. And look, talk is cheap brother. Nope. It's easy to do. It's way easier to do than taking action and getting your nose bloodied. Right, and tripping and falling, that it's much easier. So anybody can talk a good game. Yep. Right. But it's it, but it's people who it's the doers of the world. You know, I talked about a lot about developing better ideas. And I think that's a key critical component. Right? Because a bad ideas even perfectly executed is still a bad idea. Yes, but but, you know, I think you ought to start with with better ideas and better strategies. But having said that, the greatest strategies with the most perfect plan, not executed don't add any value to anybody. So you know, so you've got to have, you know, if I could make an analogy, in physics, you've got theoretical physicists and experimental physicist, and they're both necessary to move That field forward. So, so but the the theoretical, the theories of the theoretical physicists are only proven by the experimental businesses, right. But the experimental physicists are maybe not the best theoretical physicist. So it's sort of like the symbiosis between a songwriter and a gifted performer. A this is a this is a bit of trivia here. You know, Elvis Presley had I think 38 number one songs, or 38, top 10 songs. It was a bunch, right. Okay. And and how many of those did he write or co write? Man I don't and to have an answer that but but since you're asking I'm going to say zero It is zero. Now, you can become world famous as a performer. Right? And you don't have to be able to write songs. But the flip side of that is, you can write great songs and other people perform them. And you can be great that way too. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the way I look at as a at creating winning strategies for people is, you know, I'm like the songwriter, and they're like Elvis Presley. Right? They gotta go perform those strategies in order for them to be great. Yeah, no, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I there's and you I'm sure you've heard the hero's journey by Joseph Campbell. Oh, sure. Yeah. And I love this because one I grew up you know, watching the fantasy movies and reading the Lord ring books and all that kind of stuff. So I can totally vibe with this whole theory and philosophy out there. But but to what I love about it is this whole dynamic of the guiding the hero. And I think what you're saying is, in a sense when you're working with these companies, you're the guide but they're the hero and the hero is still gotta go slay the damn dragon. Right? They still gotta go execute No matter whatever plan you build out or anything, you know, you put together for them. They still got to put the work in and do the things to make it a successful endeavor. It's like in sales. You know, you can, you know, talk about cold calling all day long, but until you pick up the damn phone and actually dial the number, you know, you know you've got nothing is that pretty much? Hey, listen, that's that's a My apologies. I Hey guys, I failed to put my phone on Do Not Disturb. Let me let me let me correct that now. Sorry about that brother. Okay, so yeah, I should have known better. This is not my first trip around the block on. Oh yeah, we're gonna make this one though. Yeah I know I deserve it. I deserve 50 lashes with a wet noodle at dawn. You know it's kind of like in you in Lord of the Rings. These guys get these special weapons. Right Aragorn got the special sword. Frodo via Bilbo had the the special weapon his size, but they still had to wield those weapons. Yeah, right. So there's no doubt and I think you're spot on on what you're saying and You know, it's like, I've got a new book that's going to be out. By the time this airs, it should be out on Amazon. And it's and it features 101 great, sort of many business strategies. And and it's dinner can innovative thinking methods in there that people can use to come up with their own. But they still got to apply those things right, no matter how brilliant they are. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm sure you've experienced this, you know, you're standing in front of a room, you're talking to a crowd. And after the you're done talking to them, whether it's a speech or a training, whatever, someone walks up to you and says, that is one of the greatest things I've ever heard. And I take it two ways. One, my ego gets stroked, and I'm like, Yes, awesome. I did my job. And then the second thing goes through my head is wasn't great enough. And I'll usually ask that person, you know, are you going to go back and implement what we talked about today? And it's weird the responses. And I'm curious, you know, one, have you experienced it? And to have you watched the almost shocked reaction sometimes when you've asked that question? Oh, yeah, I listen, I think anybody that's done any, any keynote speaking or any training and you're in front of large groups has experienced that. Look, I think if you're a decent speaker, you can get people motivated. Yes, but the but the challenge with motivation is, is it's temporary, right? It's easy to get, you know, people's adrenaline pumped up and, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think you ought to live your life in an excited enthusiastic fashion but What I prefer to do, and this is where I think, you know, the training on the skill set of innovative thinking, especially the way we do it, where it's, you know, it's practical hands on, it's not standing up in front of a room with PowerPoints, or just about, you know, me being a keynote speaker is, you know, inspire people with, with a mindset of, Hey, you know what, I can do this, because they've actually experienced it right there. And they've, you know, when we do our training with the game I invented, which is kind of a basic innovative thinking game, but it puts it into a competitive format and it's fun and people laugh. When we're doing that. In a training. I say here, two things over and over one people laugh their heads off, and and second is your people go As people coming up with ideas and strategies, like Wow, that's really good. But I'll tell you afterwards dying. People come up to me and some people, they'll tell me overtly, and some people just kind of see by their to change in their physiology. That, you know, they surprised themselves at how they were able to think in a way and come up with ideas that they didn't expect. And, and I can totally relate to that. But they you can tell, right, that it's just like, No, I'm over sharper than I thought I was. Right, I'm all better than maybe I've been giving myself credit for. And when you get that, then you know that you've inspired you sort of, you sort of inspire something that they had inside them all along, but they just weren't aware of it. Yeah, I love those things go ahead is most people have never bet on themselves. Right? So when you can put them in an environment where they are forced to do something they haven't done and I'm not talking about walking across a rope bridge or you know, some tire swing thing or something, you know, but taking an action that will mentally allow them to grow and get them out of their comfort zone. You are, in a sense, forcibly helping them to evolve, and you can see it, and it's awesome. I mean, I it's a really cool change in people. So how does your game get them to do that? Well, the game is structured in a way that I say it has three elements. One, it's got some structure in it, there's a gameplay format to, it feels like fun rather than work. And three, it embraces competitiveness. Right? And everybody, I don't care, the most non competitive person, you know, when they feel like they've got a chance to win, they get competitive. Yes. And so what the game does is a little difficult in just an audio only environment. But you've got two teams. One is the entrepreneur, the inventor, we sort of use those terms interchangeably. Second Team is the competitor. And then the third team who's not competing in that round is the customer. And so each team A and B, gets a set of 10 words, and they use this innovative thinking process to match any of those two words together. And come up with an idea for a product, a service or business. And it gets three minutes to do that you will think three minutes is that long. But people surprise themselves. There's there's great power I found there's great power in have to. Yes. Right you when you have to get something done, you will. And when you don't usually want this Chan. Yeah. So so then each team, you know gets a separate set of words, they're coming up with an idea in three minutes and at the end of three minutes. They each take one minute and present to the customer team, what their product service or business is, how it works and what the benefits of the customer is. And then the customer decides, hey, do I like this team's idea better? Do I like this team's idea better. there's a there's a scoring system and play moves around the board where everybody's playing each Roll, you know, at any given time, and listen, I had a client come up to me after a training session once and he said, you know what the greatest part of this game is? And I said, What says a with David? So let's that David, he said when you when you were and when you lose, you still win, right? Yeah it's a blast. I love that you know, and here's something else that that I think your game is is getting people to do. It's forcing them to make decisions and and you know, a lot of life people get stalled with the inability to make a decision. So when you put them in a group atmosphere and you say you got three minutes to come up with a service, you know, a product or anything else. That's awesome, because I mean, that's a fast decision. And a lot of people struggle with making decisions at that speed and living and dying with the consequences. That's brilliant, but I commend you for for coming up with something innovative like that in a training format that, you know, one brings people together makes them think outside of the cliche word the box but also forces them to make those fast decisions because you know, studies have shown you know, the faster you make decisions, the better you can do in life and business because you don't get stuck. Good. I Where did this whole game evolved from? It was it was it? Yeah, that's no, that's a good question. For most of my adult life, I really didn't picture myself as a creative individual. But as I alluded to before, it's great power and have to and and in aspiring to take our company to a better level. I said, You know what? I don't really think I'm great at coming up with good ideas, but probably some books written on creativity, right? And I've got a book, which I highly recommend you have in mind that's coming out. I highly recommend this one the most. It's called Tinker toys. sinker is thinker toys like the child's toy Tinker toys. Okay? Think toys, and they're probably, they're probably 12 dozen different creative thinking techniques in there. And I tell you, if you are not used to thinking creatively, and you don't really view yourself as being a creative person, some of those look a little bit complex at first, but I discovered one in there called combine a story play, which sounds complicated, but it's not. That I learned later was both Einstein And Da Vinci's favorite creative thinking method. And look, all it is, is combining two things together and seeing what a third four possibilities occur. Do you mind if I give you an example? Please do I'm fascinated. If I let me, I first have to let you know that people don't think in words they think in pictures, true apps, right? So if I say the word dog, you're not thinking about the characters for the letter D, oh, and G you're thinking about a dog that you know, have no right and probably a dog that you owner have. If I say the word kitchen, you're thinking, the the image of the kitchen pops into your mind, right? Yep. But if you start combining words together, especially nouns, if I combine dog and kitchen together, or kitchen and dog together the new possibilities, start eliminating From my imaginative ability, you know, here's what's crazy about that is kitchen dog, I didn't have a whole lot of thought process around. But when you said dog kitchen, the first thing that popped in my head was, could there be a company I know there's our that that could make dog biscuits, or you know, you know, dog food, things in it. I know there's a ton out there, but I would never start one of those type of companies. But that's where my mind went to really cool thought process. And if you have an imagined you had a set of those nouns, right, not just a couple of work from, but if you had a set of those, and you had a direction to work with those. That's the whole point of come up with an idea for a new product service or business or an improvement on something that already exists, right? And some of the stuff that emanates from from just that little simple method and playing that game is It's practically astounding. Have you had anybody come to the game leave their company and because they started a business? I have had, I've had a number of people tell me stories about the things that they're working on. But look, it goes back to the challenges you were talking about before. You know, just coming up with an idea. Even if it's a multimillion dollar idea. It doesn't do anybody any good, even you right? If you don't act on it. Like, I have people tell me all the time when they when they find out. I have written a book. Our company published another one that I curated the content for and I have another one coming out. And so I can't tell you it's hundreds probably people told me Oh, yeah, I'm thinking about writing a book to write right now. How long you gonna think about it right? Now so and yeah, it's it's the inaction and people man it's a we're all guilty in some regards I mean, with our businesses and things we need to be doing, you know, and then help, you know, for me going from an employee to business owner was such a damn leap because I didn't realize how badly ingrained I was, you know, ingrained with this employee mindset before I started running my company, and I still find it, you know, not creating a job versus a business for myself. And, you know, it's it's that when when you get mired down with all the stuff, it's remembering to put one foot forward and start knocking things down. So you can keep moving forward because what, as soon as all those spinning plates like you're the clown with all the plates Getting up in the air. You can sit there and be mesmerised, how pretty all those plates look. But until you start knocking those plates off the frickin sticks. You're not gonna be able to move anywhere and go anywhere, you're gonna stay mesmerised, and action takes care of all that. And the biggest thing people always say, Well, what action do I take? I'm like the first one in front of you. Hey, listen, amen to that. It's hard to steer a car that's in park. Yes. Said. Right. So, look at start taking some action. You know, in my first book, there's a after, after you set your goals, then what should you do when you start taking action and what you think is the best direction, right? Because I found that as you begin to take action, you can Little signals and clues on which way to go. It's like, it's like your goals, the destination you've determined to get to. They act like a GPS that you get off track. You're going to figure that out as you go. Right. But that phrase as you go, is the critical one. Yep. Yeah, yeah. This is gonna be fun. So I love it when people bring up goal setting. And here's why. You ready for this? I'm ready. Goal setting doesn't work is actually a D motivator. And here's what I mean. And I love having this conversation is when somebody sets a goal. They are nine times out of 10 setting a goal they already believe they can achieve then They're going to fake it till they make it, in a sense lie to themselves that they're going to get there. When you set yourself up immediately for failure, not planned failure, but to fail, you lose. So I quit setting goals A while back, and I flipped it. And I set milestones and here's what I mean. I believe you should have a general vision of where you want to go. Okay, General vision, what you want to do. But I'll always take it back to sales. Let's say you've sold $10,000 a month. And you come back to your sales manager and that last year, you sold you know, $120,000, you look at your sales manager and say, this year, I'm going to sell a million dollars. And that manager is going to ask you a cool how you going to do that? The answer is always I'm going to work harder. Right? You know, which never works. Right, you know, so what I would tell if I was that sales manager tell that young sales person is let's do this, instead of setting that million dollar quota let's see if you can do 11,000 Let's get you to 11,000 get there, and then we still do 11,002 months. Can we then get the 12,000 and then 13 and you start teaching incremental growth and start getting people to learn and evolve, how to level up and then start moving forward. And and I'm curious now hearing my philosophy of course, it's my show so I have to be right. Your opinion make it mine. Right, exactly. Right. thoughts. I mean, because I mean, for you We were brought up in this world of set goals, set goals. And as you get this executive area, and it's a big, hairy, audacious goals and all this stuff, but people don't do the work. Right goes back to our whole thought talking around action. They're not doing the work. So that's why I flipped everything over to milestones because people can wrap their head around. How do I just get to my next, my next small level so I can grow? Well, this is my philosophy on goals. goals should be two things. Now, I'm not saying that you should not have a one year, five year 10 year vision. You should, but five years is a long time. Right? Especially in this age, unless there's over 1800 days in five years. So there's no sense of urgency. So I think you should set your You should have a vision for one year, you should have a vision for five years, maybe even for 10 years. But your goals ought not to be any more than 90 days at a time. For the second thing, and here's why, because there's no sense of urgency. If you miss one day out of 1800. That's not that big of a deal. But if you screw up one day out of 90, much more of a big deal, right? Right. So there's a so there's a, there's a an urgency of action in that. But here's the other thing and you you alluded to kind of a 10 x goal, which I know is kind of a catch phrase in today's world. But the problem with a 10 x goal is it's not believable to you right? Right. And I tell people look set stretching Lee realistic goals. And while I say stretching Lee realistic, I use those two terms again. For reason, you know, the most you've ever made in a year. And this funny, I just laid a couple different mastermind groups. And we were just talking about this very concept and in a mastermind group session an hour ago. And I said, you know, it's the most you've ever earned any year. Or let's, let's break it down to a quarter most you've ever earned in a quarter is 50 grand. And you set a goal to make to 50. The first thought you're going to have when you look at that as go, there's no way Yeah, right. funnel, see how I can get there. It's too high of a plateau. But the example that I was using in in that group, I said, you know, $100,000 in a year, used to seem like all the money in the world to me, right? until I got there. And that became anyway Listen, once you hit that, then you can start looking at 150. Right. And once you hit 150, you know, it doesn't seem like that far of a stretch to 250. And you get to 250 and 500 doesn't seem too far of a stretch. Now I have a friend of mine 2018 and I think he made about two and a half million. And I remember years ago, we were together in the financial services industry. And I remember he had he had just hit his first hundred thousand dollar month and income. And he was going to hit over a million that year. Total. And he said, Bill, he said his bill, he said Bob, earning a million it. I don't work any harder than when I was struggling to make 60 grand. Right. But the thought process, the focus, the execution was way different. Right. Right. So, so that I, it's been my experience, you know, everybody has their own philosophy and I think you're, whatever you're doing that works for you. That's what you ought to keep doing. So, I think we're saying a lot of the same things because you were talking about, okay, you know, if you did 50 a quarter, you know, getting the 250s a leap. What if you're going from 50 and 60? Alright, cool. Next back believable right, next quarter, can I get to 70? And, you know, because you have to evolve as an individual because the person you are right now is not the person you need to become to get to where you want to go. You have got to level up or get okay being okay. Because because, yeah, there's so many people that are They're, you know, telling the world how awesome they're going to be, and not executing. And all they're doing is making themselves miserable. Enjoy the life you have. And understand that your income level if you live inside your means you'd have a very happy life. But most people don't want to do that. Right? Yeah, they look, most people would rather grow their income to meet their dreams instead of tricking their dreams to meet their current income. True, was it right? So, but look, so many people are trying to go so far they're trying to make quantum leaps. And I'm not saying that you can't do that because I've done that a couple of times, right? But it's not the quantum leaps that matter as much as the consistent growth. system it can be consistent, small group, right? What if you're What if each month or maybe even each week, you try to get 1% better? Just 1% right mean 1% that it sounds like nothing. And yet over time, if you got 1% better, even a month, right 1% better a month, over the course of a year or two or three. That's massive growth. Very much true. And you know, but people want to believe in the overnight success, which is there's no such thing. They want to believe that there's an easy button. They want to believe that there's, you know, some magic pill or something. They don't want to do the work. You know, and they don't understand that you've got to go through it to become it. Oh, that's a great phrase. Absolutely, I'm gonna get a T shirt, maybe with a habit. You know, but that's it. I mean is people want the soft and easy and sweet and fluffy route when they don't realize that if you go in to fail on purpose, you can actually level up faster. Wow, that's where you learn the most. Right, right. I mean, when you screw up it, I tell people, Donnie, the reason I know how to do a lot of things, right? It's because I've done a wrong almost every possible way. Right? Right. I've screwed up so much. Right. And you alluded to this before. Your most overnight successes take at least a decade. Yes. You know, but people Well, people don't see that right? Or maybe they're willfully blind. And so I will No, I don't see that you know this person. You'll put in all this extra effort that they, they did things I like to tell people look, you got to do stuff to be consistent about about progress, even when you don't feel like it. Yes. Right. Even when you feel like sitting your butt on the couch and watching that episode of Laverne and Shirley that you've seen three times, right? You just age the hell out of yourself. Just so you know. Well, okay, how about that, that that that rerun of Grey's Anatomy. There you go. There Big Bang Theory. Yeah, frankly, I'll gonna make happen. Your audience mad probably I don't get the appeal that show. Oh, I love it. Love it. Yeah, but you know what? That's why they make different colors of car exhaust. Everybody don't like the same stuff. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. I never know this show is gonna go sometimes it's always fun. It's always fun. You know, you've been really doing some cool things on your ride. some really cool things on your journey. I mean, you've done some cool stuff. Where's all this taking you? You know, you got new books coming out. You've had a couple of books, you're doing some speaking. You know what's what's being on the horizon for you. Then the next big thing is happening in 2019. Hopefully in the first half of 2019. I'm not 100% in control of this. So I can just tell you this is my intent is We are launching up to this point all the training that we've done has been face to face. But we are launching an online training portfolio or a portal I should say. That is going to train people up on how to think innovatively. But listen, the, the most exciting part of that is, is we're creating a, an interface where that small business person out there who might have 25 or 50 or 100 people that are working for their company. They'd love to be able to be like Procter and Gamble or International Harvester GM, some of these big companies that have thousands and thousands of employees and, and they can sort of crowdsource innovation internally. Well, if you got a company that has 100 people, you can crowdsource Internally, but it's not a very big crowd, right? So what if what if there was a way for that small entrepreneur to access the knowledge, experience and imagination of this vast army of people that have been trained how to think innovatively and they don't have to add anybody to their payroll? Right? They don't have to, nobody's taken up any more room in their building. They're paying no more benefits, and they only pay for the solutions that fit them. Well, that's interesting. That would be kind of a big deal, wouldn't it? Be that level the playing field for them, it would make them able to compete and have all that talent, access to it, just like big companies do. And on the flip side of that, Donnie is these people that have been Train to think innovatively, they bring their own set of knowledge and experience to the table. And they can look at that and they can exercise that entrepreneurial gene without having to go start their own company. Because it gives them potential extra source of income. So, the win for everybody? Yeah, yeah, no, I like that a lot. Was this was this concept born out of y'all need or you saw a gap in the marketplace? No, I just see that that look. There's a yo you got now this advent of so much automation, especially with AI. that a lot of jobs that are being done by people now are going to be done by people in the future. They're going to be done. And I don't mean the final need mean along the way future I mean, the near term future right, the next 135 years 10 years at the most. And so those people are going to need different skill sets. I think, as I was telling him on his podcast recently, it's temporarily terrible for those people when they lose their job, right? But it's only temporary, right? Because once they acquire the new skill sets needed to do the 21st century work, they're probably going to end up doing work that's more fun. It's probably more fulfilling, and frankly, because it brings more value to the marketplace, it probably pays more. And so they've got to learn these new skill set. And Chief among those, I believe, is how to think innovatively and apply that to practical solutions in business in life. And the sad part is, is our traditional education system isn't doing that. Yeah. So, you know, you can complain about that. But as opposed to complaining about things, I like to do something about them. And I see this big gap that's unfilled that companies like ours, so I'm sure we're not gonna be the only one are going to fill in the gaps there to get people trained in the skill sets that they need, you know, to thrive in the 21st century instead of just barely survive. Absolutely. That's well done. But it's a it's a really, really, really cool concept. I think you're going to help you know a lot of people on their journey level up. Good on you. Good on you. Thank you. We have a goal to help millions. Yeah, I know I should. I know I shouldn't set a goal Donnie, but can be taught this whole time. I wasn't sure but dang just proved. That that's my vision. Anyway. I love it. I love it. I love it. You know You know, here's here's the thing. There are certain individuals in this world that can set a goal, like a guy like Gary Vee Gary V's biggest thing. He tells everybody he's gonna buy the New York Jets. Right? Right. Right, like Gary Vee may very well get there, because that drives him that motivates them that charges him up. But it's such a few minority of people that are that driven, you know, innately to get there. So I like your big vision. Now bust your ass to get there. Well, if you're right, it can do you mind if I throw out sort of another thought in terms of goals? What I have found is that people don't set goals based on what they really want. They don't set their true goals. If they set goals at all. They're setting them based on what they think they ought to want. what somebody else wants them to want. You know, my sales man, my sales manager said, This is my quota. So that's my goal, right? What does that mean? There's no, if you're not setting goals that are your true goals, then there's no emotional power to them. So there's no driver for action. So you're setting yourself up for failure. If that's the kind of goals you're setting 100% agree. Hundred percent agree. Well said, Well said. Well, brother, can you believe it's been almost an hour already? Time flies when you're having fun, brother. Well, you know, I mean, when you're around me, you have no choice but to have fun. So So. Yeah, well, no, I this has been a blast. And by the way, time flies when you're having fun or not, so you're exactly right. Exactly. Well, my friend, how do people find you? How do they get in touch with you? How do they reach out? How do they make funny Yeah, you know, look, LinkedIn. Like my home on the internet, I just I love that platform. If it's done right, I think it's extremely productive. And, and you can meet people from all around the globe. And so LinkedIn is probably the best place to find me. It is linkedin.com slash IN slash Bob Sager VOB SAG on. love it love it. Well, this is how I like to wrap up every show. And I do stump some people on this. So So stand by, if you are going to leave the champion to listen to the show entrepreneurs, business owners, people from 78 countries around the world that tune in Listen to this. If you are going to leave them with a quote, a saying a phrase, a mantra or a motto, something they can take with them on their journey, especially if they're stacked up against it and going through it. What would be that quote or phrase you would say? Remember this? Remember this this is from Arthur Ashe. Arthur Ashe said, start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can Love it. Love it. That's Sage sage advice, my friend. It's been so fun having you on here. I've really really enjoyed it. Thanks for you know, coming in sharing your story and having some fun conversations and some laughs So So thanks for doing this but hey, Donnie, it's been fun being on what you Thanks for having me. Awesome. Well

Breaking News from Wheels and Deals..... Good morning, Fredericton area. This is Bob Betts with Jim Gilbert's World News. In news today, Jim Gilbert's Wheels and Deals has moved into second place in Kawasaki Powersport sales, in large part to the amazing staff and the incredibly loyal customers in the Greater Fredericton area. Scientists have also discovered that giving and receiving hugs will make for a much happier day. Doctors are recommending that you hug as much as possible. Finally in the news, Wheels and Deals will be celebrating their Powersports Grand Opening on August 21st, and everyone is welcome. In fact, one lucky person is going to go home with a Mercury motor, a boat, and a trailer. Wheels and Deals will have food and entertainment onsite, so spread the word and we hope to see everyone here on August 21st. And now, Dave, in the world of sports. In the world of sports here this morning, here at Jim Gilbert's Wheels and Deals, they have done the impossible. We have a motored up and landed the contract with the Pedego Bicycles, and they are electric bicycles, and the Vespa Scooters. So Bob, that's an amazing trait for sure. Also in speaking of sports, Bob, this Crosstrek has become one of the leading industries SUV, and people are coming from all over to test drive this out. So come on in and see us here today for a test drive. Bob, the boating- Yeah. -in the river. It is incredible. I noticed how many boats there were in the river last night. And you know what? We carry a very popular line of boats there also. Yes. You do. The Bennington. Crestliner has been the Cadillacs of the water. Absolutely. We love to see people come in and put their families in these boats, have their barbecues on the water. It's spectacular to entertain them. It sure would. Anyways- I think that's it for the news today. That is it, Bob. And of course you know, hugs. Hug you. Hug you. Hug you very much.Fredericton Used Cars https://www.wheelsanddeals.ca Car Buying Questions? Phone (506) 459-6832 Pre-Owned Vehicles - Trucks - Vans - Suv's - Mini-Vans for sale. Auto Loans, Used car loans, used vehicle financing. Fredericton's New Boat Dealer for Glastron power boats - https://www.wheelsanddeals.ca/glastron-inventory , Bennington pontoon boats - https://www.wheelsanddeals.ca/pontoon-boats-bennington-inventory, and Crestliner Pontoons Motor Cycle Dealership in Fredericton, check our inventory Bikes, Jet skis, ATV's and Quads - https://www.wheelsanddeals.ca/motorcycle-inventory Serving: Oromocto Fredericton Moncton Saint John Woodstock New Brunswick, Canada. Jim Gilbert's Wheels and Deals 402 St Mary's St Fredericton, NB E3A 8H5 (506) 459-6832

Mario Nawfal is the founder of the Athena Group of Companies, a conglomerate that operates in more than 40 countries. He started in 2012 with $300 in the bank selling blenders door to door and built that into a business (Froothie) that generated $10m in its second year. Next he built global brand status with Optimum Appliances, a brand he created from scratch. Next he established a range of brands in niches such as personal mobility, fitness, and e-cigarettes. In 2016, he started GoGlobal, an incubator that helps businesses scale their product or ecommerce operations to more than 30 countries rapidly and efficiently. In 2017, he established International Blockchain Consulting (IBC), a network of experts in more than 40 countries that rose in less than a year to become an established industry authority in the rapidly growing blockchain and crypto space. After the success of IBC, Mario launched IBI Ventures (a venture capital fund), IBA (blockchain accounting), and IGC (cannabis and hemp business consulting). In 2019, he launched a new company, Zense, to provide entrepreneurs with insight on how to launch a successful business with a limited budget. Currently, he has created the 7Figure Launchpad, the world’s first and only full-access business program.   “That’s when I realized that the person I had trusted to build my business and I was actually in discussion with to become the CEO, because I didn’t want to get too involved in my VC (venture capital) had just walked away and taken clients with him.” Mario Nawfal     Support our sponsor   Today’s episode is sponsored by the Women Building Wealth membership group, the complete proven step-by-step course to guide women from novice to competent investor. To learn more, visit: WomenBuildingWealth.net.       Worst investment ever After e-commerce success, Mario looks at blockchain Back in 2017, Mario’s main enterprise was Froothie, an e-commerce business and an area in which he had expertise. But he was very interested in blockchain technology after looking at it for a while. He had free time, was travelling around Europe and started learning about the industry, mainly by reading to learn as much as he could and building contacts, calling people. With an assistant scheduling calls from morning until night, that’s what he would do day in, day out. One of the people he talked to was a Mr. “M”, with whom Mario started working, and who along with another gentleman, helped him start IBC. Mario knew how to start, build and scale businesses, but had no knowledge about blockchain, was not a developer nor could he write code, so he needed some experts around him. IBC starts well and grows to seven figures in six months While his businesses were doing OK, Froothie took a hit with a legal challenge over a supplier mishap. IBC was his next venture but he had to be careful as he couldn’t put in a lot of money. So he had brought on people working to build the business. It started out well and the experts he had brought on built the company as Mario was learning and pivoting when pebbles started to hit and testing different tactics to ensure they worked. He started doubling down and all this worked well to that point that IBC had scaled to seven figures in less than six months. So everything was going well, but he had forgotten to attend one of his main weaknesses - due diligence. Mario trusted people too easily. ‘Trusted’ colleague earmarked to be CEO ‘disappears’ Everything was going well, the company was going well, the company was scaling despite a few issues over delivery that he had to get involved in, but at the end of 2018, suddenly M. vanished. Initially, he was in hospital for a week and Mario was very worried, and sent messages to him and got everyone to send him wishes for a speedy recovery, and then he just disappeared and Mario had no idea what was happening. Then a payment in large six figures bounced from IBC’s biggest client, and they were unresponsive also. Even though some alarm bells were ringing in the back of his mind, he felt there was no way anything was wrong. Betrayal sinks in But then when M completely disappeared, the facts of the betrayal started to sink in. Mario even sent him forgiving messages: “Don’t worry about what you did. I don’t know what you did. I’ll forgive you, it doesn’t matter man. You know, everyone makes mistakes, chasing money. It’s a game,” but the messages on WhatsApp were being read but ignored. The biggest client was still not responding and other clients M was close to were also concerned. M had been screwing Mario and IBC for a lot longer than they had initially thought. M had also bad-mouthed Mario to everyone he spoke to, including clients, team members and other partners. So that’s when he realized that the person he had trusted to build his business and was in discussion to appoint him CEO had just walked away and taken many clients with him. Hits keep on coming as industry also collapses But the story became even darker. He turned to his team to start taking drastic measures to rebuild after this loss. So they had to cut the company down rapidly. The industry was also going through a rough period and collapsed in the same month. Other businesses laid off more than 90% of their teams, and Mario and his team were ready for that. But they were not ready for a scam that went deeper. While rebuilding, staff discover second ‘snake’ So there they were: seven figures in the red because payments were all meant to come in as one payment, key team members had disappeared, and they didn’t know how much damage was caused. So they started rebuilding. He got his team going again, riling them up, making inquiries as to who they could trust before they started calling customers again. One of his team, a confidante in the process who had been there since the beginning, and who was responsible for scheduling calls to key clients (“Bob”), had been very supportive. He would say: “We’ll do this Mario, forget about the pain you’ve gone through. Forget about M. He’s a snake. Now we’re family. We’re close to each other.” Mario recalled the day he started saying those things. “I’ll be there for you until we get through this. We’ll do it together.” And then Mario started filming himself and started blogging as a response to the scam that was by this time about two months or three months old. ‘Nice guy’ was stealing data with GoPro video The same day Bob was saying nice things, Mario found out that Bob was still funneling data out of the company to M, and that M and Bob had been childhood friends. They were unable to steal in a normal way, because there Mario had put protections in place such as screen recorders and users couldn’t take screenshots nor could they export data via a drive because the company would know. So Bob was wearing a GoPro and working and filming as he was working, and as IBC were about to close clients, none of them were closing and it had been a huge mystery. All the clients that they knew IBC had spoken to and were about to close, Bob was just talking to them and funneling them to the M’s other company. While Mario and his team were trying to recover, they were actually losing more clients. So Mario sacked Bob even as more stories emerged about how deep the damage had been and how many had been misled. Head tumor discovered as legal battle continues In the same month, Mario was diagnosed with tumor, while non-cancerous and not serious, it was in head initially he thought he would need immediate surgery because of associated bleeding. His other company meanwhile was dealing with a legal crisis in which one of the suppliers had breached their agreement due to patent concerns and that was pretty serious also. It was a very tough period but Mario managed to bounce back. IBC is now stronger than ever but it took a very stoic mindset to get through it all. Once the last rotten apple in the company had been removed, and all leaks were patched, IBC started to make money again.     Some lessons The people you hire will make or break you Thorough due diligence must also be applied to hiring people, because hiring is the heart of any business, where an investment bank or a restaurant that needs waiters or chefs. The more due diligence you do, the more likely that luck won’t play a big role because you’ve done the work to make sure you have the right people to build your business. All investors ask about your team They look at the team more than the idea over every time, so again, due diligence in hiring is crucially important.     Andrew’s takeaways When it rains it pours As Mario had so many struggles going at the same time, with one team members’ betrayal and another’s, fighting a lawsuit, and serious health issues, one thing Andrew likes to highlight is that most young people going into the business of being an entrepreneur do not realize that having a business is your complete life. Having a serious physical issue on top of that can throw all plans out the window. So to be an entrepreneur, you’ve got to have endurance and the energy to relentlessly pursue your goals. This is critical especially when unpredictable things happen. “When it rains, it pours and you’ve got to push through it.” Trust can only be built with time There is no way to accelerate the trust between two people except through time. Six common mistakes Collated from the My Worst Investment Ever series, the six main categories of mistakes made by Andrew’s interviewees, starting from the most common, are: Failed to do their own research Failed to properly assess and manage risk Were driven by emotion or flawed thinking Misplaced trust Failed to monitor their investment Invested in a start-up company Andrew identified mistakes No.2 and No.4 No. 2 Failed to properly assess and manage risk Ultimately, it was the risk that affected Mario’s business, not the success. The story of the return actually sounded very good. No. 4 Misplaced trust Mario is not the only one struggling with this. When an investor or a business person is in a situation where they really need a person, and they go ahead and work with them, the trust part is the most difficult.   Actionable advice Keep in mind when there is a lot of money at stake, when you get to that level, if you’re an investor, or you’ve got successful companies, be very careful about the people that are making the decisions with that money, because their incentives may not be aligned with yours. Greed is very powerful and people will come up with stories to justify doing the wrong thing when it comes to money – Greed is a very strong bias.     No. 1 goal for next the 12 months Mario wants to find people to run his various companies, “but the right people”. Mario’s response to this story is not to retreat and be a hermit, and do everything himself because to avoid being scammed again because such things will often happen anyway. They are part of business. Instead, he wants to look logically and find partners through doing proper due diligence and continue to build companies. Right now his focus is on IBC, which is helping businesses to raise capital.     Parting words “Anyone listening to this, you will lose. The way you respond to that loss will determine what happens next.”   You can also check out Andrew’s books   How to Start Building Your Wealth Investing in the Stock Market   My Worst Investment Ever   9 Valuation Mistakes and How to Avoid Them   Transform Your Business with Dr. Deming’s 14 Points  Connect with Mario Nawfal LinkedIn Website (Athena) Website (Personal) Instagram Medium YouTube Email Connect with Andrew Stotz Astotz.com LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter YouTube My Worst Investment Ever Podcast  

https://www.wayfindinggrowth.com/201 Launching a Franchise, Using Empathy to Make Decisions, We All Face ShipwrecksParallel industries can teach us so much. In this episode of Wayfinding Growth, Remington walked away with several "aha moments" from a coffee franchise that sparked ideas for our agency. We hope you'll do the same.Today’s Sponsor is Impulse Creative’s Video Marketing Masterclass - George B Thomas built out an 11 module On-Demand Course on how to leverage Video in your Business. He covers everything from how to choose the right equipment, to what you can do videos about in your business. Check it out at impulsecreative.com/vfm and preview 2 modules for Free.Bob Fish, Biggby CoffeeBiggby Coffee (pronounced Big-Bee) is a privately owned coffee franchise business based in East Lansing, Michigan. There are close to 250 locations across 8 states, each locally owned and operated. Bob Fish and Michael McFall are the co-CEOs of Biggby Coffee. Bob, along with co-found Mary Roszel, launched the company in 1995 near Michigan State University. Franchising started in 1999."My Harbor is Littered with Shipwrecks"Bob says you can't have success without shipwrecks. Growth takes risk. He recalled how his first store in East Lansing opened "with a resounding thud." It took grit and tenacity and a dream to make it happen through those shipwrecks. In fact his biggest shipwreck was about 5 years into the life of Biggby. Bob and his partner decided to buy a small coffee chain in Toledo, Ohio.The plan was to buy and flip the brand. They went to a vendor for a loan, a bank for a loan, and put their own money into the venture. As life moved forward and they thought it was going well, they hit their first major obstacle. The bank came to the business and said they were shutting their loan down. Bob and the leadership team discovered they weren't keeping their balance sheet in the "right ratio" for the bank. Bob says the lesson was conquering hubris and arrogance, because he hadn't read the fine print in the contract and taken it seriously. On the precipice of bankruptcy, Bob and his partner had to then show up to the rest of the world with a positive attitude. Empathy and BrandingBiggby didn't start as Biggby. The brand actually started as Beaner's Coffee. In late 2007, they changed to Biggby Coffee. The idea behind the original name was a reference to coffee beans. The team wasn't aware of the other meaning of the word. “Beaner” is often used as an ethnic slur for Mexicans. So Bob and partner Mike McFall agreed that they wanted to voluntarily change their name.Founded on the principal of being the friendly coffee community and loving everyone, the pair wanted people to know that the organization was open and accepting of all nationalities and people. The name “Biggby” was chosen as it was the vocalization of the black and orange “big B” logo that already existed. Biggby became a fun name, and the first store opened under the name Biggby Coffee on October 29, 2007, in Westand, Michigan. The name change was completed in all stores by January 31, 2008.The successful name change is attributed to the Biggby corporate entity making the decision to shoulder the entire cost of the name change. From exterior building signs, PR, and a myriad of other expenses, Bob and Mike felt it was only right to cover the costs for franchise owners. Bob said the cost added up to about $1 million. And it was worth every penny.In December 2007, Biggby Coffee was awarded MBC Global's 3rd Quarter Multicultural Achievement Award for completing the name change on a completely voluntary basis.

https://www.wayfindinggrowth.com/201 Launching a Franchise, Using Empathy to Make Decisions, We All Face ShipwrecksParallel industries can teach us so much. In this episode of Wayfinding Growth, Remington walked away with several "aha moments" from a coffee franchise that sparked ideas for our agency. We hope you'll do the same.Today’s Sponsor is Impulse Creative’s Video Marketing Masterclass - George B Thomas built out an 11 module On-Demand Course on how to leverage Video in your Business. He covers everything from how to choose the right equipment, to what you can do videos about in your business. Check it out at impulsecreative.com/vfm and preview 2 modules for Free.Bob Fish, Biggby CoffeeBiggby Coffee (pronounced Big-Bee) is a privately owned coffee franchise business based in East Lansing, Michigan. There are close to 250 locations across 8 states, each locally owned and operated. Bob Fish and Michael McFall are the co-CEOs of Biggby Coffee. Bob, along with co-found Mary Roszel, launched the company in 1995 near Michigan State University. Franchising started in 1999."My Harbor is Littered with Shipwrecks"Bob says you can't have success without shipwrecks. Growth takes risk. He recalled how his first store in East Lansing opened "with a resounding thud." It took grit and tenacity and a dream to make it happen through those shipwrecks. In fact his biggest shipwreck was about 5 years into the life of Biggby. Bob and his partner decided to buy a small coffee chain in Toledo, Ohio.The plan was to buy and flip the brand. They went to a vendor for a loan, a bank for a loan, and put their own money into the venture. As life moved forward and they thought it was going well, they hit their first major obstacle. The bank came to the business and said they were shutting their loan down. Bob and the leadership team discovered they weren't keeping their balance sheet in the "right ratio" for the bank. Bob says the lesson was conquering hubris and arrogance, because he hadn't read the fine print in the contract and taken it seriously. On the precipice of bankruptcy, Bob and his partner had to then show up to the rest of the world with a positive attitude. Empathy and BrandingBiggby didn't start as Biggby. The brand actually started as Beaner's Coffee. In late 2007, they changed to Biggby Coffee. The idea behind the original name was a reference to coffee beans. The team wasn't aware of the other meaning of the word. “Beaner” is often used as an ethnic slur for Mexicans. So Bob and partner Mike McFall agreed that they wanted to voluntarily change their name.Founded on the principal of being the friendly coffee community and loving everyone, the pair wanted people to know that the organization was open and accepting of all nationalities and people. The name “Biggby” was chosen as it was the vocalization of the black and orange “big B” logo that already existed. Biggby became a fun name, and the first store opened under the name Biggby Coffee on October 29, 2007, in Westand, Michigan. The name change was completed in all stores by January 31, 2008.The successful name change is attributed to the Biggby corporate entity making the decision to shoulder the entire cost of the name change. From exterior building signs, PR, and a myriad of other expenses, Bob and Mike felt it was only right to cover the costs for franchise owners. Bob said the cost added up to about $1 million. And it was worth every penny.In December 2007, Biggby Coffee was awarded MBC Global's 3rd Quarter Multicultural Achievement Award for completing the name change on a completely voluntary basis.

For most of us, once we are in the working world, travel is something to do on vacation.  Academics have the opportunity to take a sabbatical and live and work in another country with their families. As the world economy continues to become more integrated, many lawyers and other business professionals end up finding themselves on international business trips.  Some in-house lawyers have the chance to spend time in other countries when they are temporarily transferred to international offices. Lawyers who work for large international law firms, also have this chance.  But for most lawyers in private practice, international travel is limited to vacations and the occasional business trip.  Robert Finkel, is a lawyer who figured out a different path. For many years, Bob had been in private practice at a mid-sized firm; but he and his wife had a strong desire to spend time living in Israel with their three children.  They had visited the country many times, but they knew living there would be different. Since they were not independently wealthy, they knew that at least one of them needed to continue to work. One option was for Bob to leave his role partner of a law firm in the Boston area, Morse, Barnes-Brown and Pendleton and find a legal job in Israel.  This presented some challenges. So Bob came up with a creative solution. He would continue to work for his firm but work remotely from Israel.  In this episode, I speak with Bob about how he made living abroad a reality and what were some of the challenges and benefits to him professionally and personally. Bob is a partner at the New York firm Moritt, Hock and Hamroff. Bob has over 30 years of experience as a tax and business lawyer. His practice focuses on the areas of individual and business taxation including tax controversy and tax litigation.  

Is the internet ruining our lives? But what about puppy pics and Twitter friends and immediate access to information?! In a sneak peek of Alia and Bob's new tech show, So, Bob, Alia and Bob tackle the world’s easiest question: is the internet good or bad? Listen to So, Bob now wherever you get your podcasts to hear the rest of this episode, and subscribe now to make sure you won’t miss a thing!

In a brand new podcast, Bob & Alia join forces to answer your questions and untangle your sanity from this dark, scary world wide web. So, Bob is a safe, welcome space for understanding what technology is doing to you. We’ll be dropping episodes weekly starting May 6. Subscribe now so you don’t miss a thing!

When Sony executive Bob Oswaks got laid off, his old boss, Norman Lear – yes, that Norman Lear – called him and told him that maybe it was time for a real change. So Bob took his passion for bread to the next level and started a whole new life as a baker. He hit the big-time when Giada de Laurentiis – yes, Food Network Giada – asked him if he could make all the bread for a party for Prince William and his bride, Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge. Sounds like a fairy tale, but Bob’s tale of reinvention is a little more hard-crusted than that. It took hard work, a hard head, and a tender croissant. Meet “Juicy” Bob Oswaks.

RETRO SHOCK: “Where’s your Great Pumpkin now?” Its that time of the year for trick, treats and squatting in your neighbor’s nondescript garden space awaiting the arrival of a Cthulthulian overlord. So Bob and Tim are tuning in to that horrifying character study of a boy unhinged, “It’s The Great Pumpkin ,Charlie Brown.” Run for your life, Charlie Brown. Run for your elfin’ life.00:00:00 - CREEPY CROONER - Ladies and gentlemen … Tim Curry 00:01:20 - SPOOKY STARTS - Yellow ponchos and drunken hobos / “Anything Can Happen On Halloween” 00:05:36 - OCTOBER 27TH, 1966 - Halloween specials … probably exist 00:09:28 - THE ANNUAL REPEAT VIEWING - changing the specialness of a special 00:15:21 - MODERN DAY - and Good Memory/Bad Memory / “This Is Halloween” 00:17:31 - EXPERIMENTAL JAZZ AND ABSTRACT ART - easing (and uneasing) into it 00:26:39 - PANELS VERSES PLOTTING - is this bigger than a comic strip? 00:28:13 - ANIMATED WAR IS ANIMATED HELL - Why is Snoopy carpet-bombing France? 00:33:24 - ITS A POINTLESS SERIES OF UNCONNECTED EVENTS, CHARLIE BROWN - what is the elfin’ plot already? 00:38:17 - INSECURITY BLANKET - Linus and the bleak loss of faith 00:52:03 - MORALITY PRICK - The pangs of being in Peanuts 00:56:26 - GOOD REAILTY/BAD REALITY - and will Bob watch this with his kids 01:00:05 - CLOSINGS — Contacts, plugs and no catchphrase / “Bela Lugosi’s Dead” See some spooky sponsorship from the special's original 1966 airing HERE.Watch the horrific transformation of Linus Van Pelt HERE.Listen to this 40th anniversary retrospective on the special from 2006 HERE.And witness a bunch of specials Bob and Tim couldn't think of with "HALLOWEEN IS GRINCH NIGHT" (HERE), "WITCHES NIGHT OUT" (HERE) and RAGGEDY ANN AND ANDY IN THE PUMPKIN WHO WOULDN'T SMILE (HERE).The use of audio and video clips linked from YOUTUBE are for educational purposes and without the expressed permission of their legal holding companies. All rights remain with with their original distributor.This episode of 20TH CENTURY POPCAST was recorded by ZENCASTR, a high fidelity podcast recording platform that records multiple guests from multiple zip-codes all as if they were in the same room. Log on for studio quality recordings NOW! (exclamation point also provided by ZENCASTR)MUSIC FEATURED IN TODAY’S EPISODE:“Anything Can Happen On Halloween” performed in a nauseatingly green-screened fashion by Tim Curry from the 1986 Video-tape terror THE WORST WITCH. "This Is Halloween" performed by the denizens of HalloweenTown anf off the 1993 original motion picture soundtrack to TIM BURTON'S THE NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS. "Bela Lugosi's Dead" performed by Bauhaus and released as a self-titled single in 1979.The use of these songs are for entertainment purposes and without the expressed permission of the recording artist.Subscribe to 20TH CENTURY POPCAST! on APPLE PODCASTS, STITCHER and ANDROID or stream it at www.20popcast.com.Like, share and reminisce with 20TH CENTURY POPCAST! on FACEBOOK.Contact the show with any questions, suggestions or possible topics at 20popcast@gmail.com, #20popcast on Twitter and the POP TALK section of www.20popcast.com.Follow ROBERT CANNING @rhcanning on TWITTER. Read his web-comic at EXAGGERATEDLIFE.wordpress.com and his music blog at superultramegamix.wordpress.com. Follow TIM BLEVINS @subcultist on TWITTER and as SUBCULTISTon INSTAGRAM.20TH CENTURY POPCAST! will return next week with BINGE AND PODCAST.

Bob McKenzie says he’s never seen anything like the scene in Nashville around the Stanley Cup Final, since the old days of the Boston Garden and the Spectrum in Philly. Bob says the NHL, three or four years ago, had Seattle at the top of its expansion list but a lack of an arena and an owner shelved that. So Bob says, despite yesterday’s Key Arena announcement, those are still a concern. But if both issues are taken care of, Bob suggests the NHL will be very interested in Seattle

Good morning WHEELZUPRADIO Nation.. We have had a change in our line up for tonight's show presented by Sassy Racing Engines. The Duck hasn't been feeling well for a few days.. So Bob bender is currently on his way to Virginia for the divisional race.. So we are going to talk about what's going on at VMP.. And the upcoming national event in Texas.. Plus much much more. At hope that you can tune in and check us out live starting at 7pm est.Www.blogtalkradio.com/wheelzupradio we are also on twitter @wheelzupradio   We aslo have a few racers lined up to join us later on in the show...

Download Episode! An Interview with Bob Price, Founder and Director of the Vallarta Botanical Garden, Hillary Abrams, Wedding and Event Coordinator and Neil Gerlowski, Executive Director of the Vallarta Botanical Garden and the dedication of  Cheryl L. Wheeler International Peace Garden. This interview was sparked by Hillary Abrams, she is the wedding coordinator of the Vallarta Botanical Gardens and she answered a call I put out for wedding coordinators here in Puerto Vallarta. Remember, in the first episode I promised to interview wedding planners and photographers, and caterers and bakers? Well, she invited me to come out to the Vallarta Botanical Gardens to show me what they have to offer to the bride and groom. Of course I leapt at the chance to have an opportunity to see the gardens and possibly do two interviews at the same time. Sweet! Little did I realize at the time what a wonderful opportunity this would turn out to be. Donate to The  Vallarta Botanical Garden I had an appointment to meet Hillary at 10:00 AM at the garden so I walked out of my apartment up in the El Cerro area, next to Gringo Gulch, and walked down to the Emilio Zapata neighborhood, crossing the bridge over the Rio Cuale, passing the watchmaker who changes batteries, sizes watch bands and more, right there in the shade of a tree. The guy does a brisk business.  I grab a quick doughnut from a tienda, a orange drink and then hoof it the rest of the way to the corner of Agaucate and Carranza where waiting there it the bus for the Botanical Gardens and El Tuito, waiting there at 9:00 AM. Good deal. I love it when a plan falls in place. I board the bus and head towards the back. . The bus driver didn’t want any money from me till after we reached our destination. So I picked a seat where I could plop my backpack with my audio recording equipment, microphones and cables and all that stuff, my camera rig too, right in a seat right next to me. I was soon joined in the back by a character of sorts. He was worn from what I assumed was a lifetime of just a little too much to drink. I figured he was about my age. He was jovial and had a couple of friends who came on the bus as it sat, waiting to leave for the gardens. They were friendly and very talkative. It made for an entertaining trip, my eavesdropping on the conversation. I like to listen in while not always letting on that I actually do understand what they are saying. The bus soon had its fill of passengers and took off for the garden. For those familiar with Puerto Vallarta and have taken the bus south of town to Mismaloya or Boca de Tomatlan, you will be familiar with this road. It travels along the coast winding past large estates, beautiful hotels and resorts and condos situated right on the ocean. There are beautiful secluded beaches and private ones.  One of my favorite parts of this route are the speed bumps placed strategically in front of the bigger complexes. The bus will slow way down to accommodate these bumps. The second thump, the rear axle going over is always the best for your back. Especially if you happen to be standing in the bus.  The bus stops at Mismaloya and Boca but then continues up along the The Horcones River that empties into the Boca de Tomatlan, up into the mountains towards the old town of El Tuito. The bus stops at the entrance of the Gardens and the driver asks for 26 pesos. Cheap like 1.25 each way. He will give you change if you don’t have exact change. The garden entrance is beautiful. You check in at the front reception area where you buy admission, you can also purchase insect repellent right at the ticket counter so if you forget yours, no problem.  As I walk towards the restaurant and gift shop area, I pass planter beds and plant displays along the pathway. Such a wonderful setting, in the jungle with fresh air and birds chirping away. [caption id="attachment_549" align="alignright" width="226"] Bob Price Poses with the Philippine Jade Vine[/caption]  When I reach the restaurant I recognize Bob Price from a picture I saw of him. Big tall strong guy, seemed very good natured. I asked where I could set up the microphones and recording equipment and he motions for me to set up anywhere I wanted. As I was doing the quick build of my mobile recording studio right in the middle of this Hall of Flowers restaurant area adjacent to the gift store and the kitchen, breakfast was being served to the workers. At the table where I was setting up, Bob Price, Neil Gerlowski, and a young Mexican National were sitting, eating breakfast. They were all speaking both in English and Spanish. I realized it was a job interview. The three interviewers were peppering the applicant with questions. He was fielding them with great skill in English. I was impressed with the background and knowledge and experience of this young man. I could tell he would have the job by the end of the day. I was wrong by the way, he was hired before the end of breakfast. What impressed me the most was the intelligent questioning of the man, and the kind and might I say humane manner in which they interacted with this new hire. It was really cool to see these guys in action. So Bob swung around and asked if I was ready to interview him and here’s how that went…. Bob Price is the  founder and Director of the Vallarta Botanical Gardens. You can ride a bus or taxi to go to Vallarta Botanical Gardens but bus is more preferred. It costs 25 pesos each way.  You’ll pass by a little town after Boca De Tomatlán called Las Juntas los Veranos which means the things that come together during the summer. Las Juntas signifies where things come together and Veranos means the summer. Vallarta Botanical Gardens History Gardens founded in 2005, this November 15 it will turn 12 years old. Its concept is to create a world class botanical garden showcase where people can learn about Mexican plants. The garden has lots of collections of different native plants and exotic plants. Plants that are native to highland rain forest of Southeast Asia, they are only botanical garden in Mexico that exhibits those. They have a tropical plant house which includes the famous Philippine Jade Vines. Native plant house which is native Mexican plants. The area is a total of 55 acres but only 6 acres are under their cultivation. The rest is wild forest. Things To Do Other than the beautiful gardens, there are lots of other things you can do at the Vallarta Botanical Gardens. They have hiking trails where you can see nature, trees, orchids etc. There is also a clear river for swimming, Rio Los Horcones is one of the highlights. It is recommended that you wear insect repellent or bring bug spray since it is in the middle of a forest insects like no-see-um or sand fly are most likely always there. They also have a laboratory, it is a micro propagation laboratory for growing orchids invitro meaning grow them under sterile condition and test tubes. As they become older, they will be taken out in test tubes and pot them up when strong enough for outside condition. It costs 150 pesos, approximately to get in, $6. They are a non profit organization with some 450 members of different levels that support the garden.  They have generous donors that keep the garden running. They also have a restaurant, an authentic Mexican restaurant. Also, they have a wood burning brick oven to cook home made pizzas. Lastly, they now create chocolate from scratch, they have an orchard of cacao. They are still planning if it is possible to be built as a business. They have an annual flower show which is the most attended event of the year. It will be from February 17 - 27. Best part of job? Working with plants, greeting people. Visit Trip Adviser and search on Puerto Vallarta. The Vallarta Botanical Garden is number 3. It is third out of 167 things to do. [caption id="attachment_541" align="alignleft" width="300"] Hillary Abrams[/caption] My next interview was Hillary Abrams, as I mentioned earlier, she was the reason I came to the garden in the first place. She was excited to show off the new chapel at the garden and the International Peace Garden of Mexico, soon to be dedicated, right in front of this beautiful chapel. I came to find out about weddings at the Garden so let’s get to that interview. Hilary Abrams. She is the  wedding coordinator at Puerto Vallarta Botanical Gardens. Her parents retired to a Small beach town Mayto . From New York, she came to visit here and just fell in love with it. She was able to meet Robert Price, founder and director of the gardens and found a new life and path planning weddings and she’s been here for over a year. [caption id="attachment_526" align="alignright" width="300"] Wedding Chapel[/caption] She used to organize large scale volunteer events for one of biggest social agencies in New York so she has a history of organizing people, transportation, food, venues. Her parents are member of botanical garden. She went down here and she saw the chapel and Robert needed a wedding planner and things just fell into place. She is new to wedding organizing but all went well. The people that are getting married here are friends and family of members. These people send referrals. Visitors inquire as well. Even the website gets inquiries but mostly expats are coming here like Canadian and American. Wedding in Botanical Garden The garden varies with every wedding, depending on couples specifics. It’s not a rinse and repeat kind of thing. They have a new chapel and they are getting lots of inquiries. When dealing with long distance clients - Skype calls, photos, Pinterest are their way of communication. The bride & groom will visit at least once and go through the menu, changes, walk through. Estimate cost Every facility has a different rate but chapel rental is $2000 with couple of hours in morning with decorations of your choice. Rental for hall of flowers is $2000 with buffet option, Latin, Italian, or international buffet. It is $38-$48 per person. They can also choose the style of how food will be served. It can be buffet, family style, or plated. option. Drink options from house drink to international platinum. Different pricing per person depending on the beverages. There is an open bar for 4 hours that includes different types of alcohol, wine, and champagne. They also have orchid conservatory and vanilla house open for rental. Brunch wedding cost estimate  is $7,000 - $10,000 Large wedding on New Year's Eve - $30,000 In the US average cost is around $50,000 You can reach Hilary and Vallarta Botanical Garden at www.vbgardens.org that has photos aand information about the packages. You can inquire there as well.  My third interview was with Neil Gerlowski, the executive director of the Jardenas Botanicum de Vallarta and this guy just loves what he does! He is so pumped up about plants. So enthusiastic and I just got to really like this guy so let’s get to the interview. Neil Gerlowski is the executive director of Vallarta Botanical Gardens. [caption id="attachment_543" align="alignleft" width="225"] Neil Gerlowski[/caption] He grew up in New Hampshire. Became an English teacher as parents wanted. Then moved to Arizona as park ranger for 8 years. He fell in love with Mexico and Mexican girl, now living at Puerto Vallarta with 2 kids. As executive director he does the program development and fundraising to continue the vision they have for the garden, outside the garden, and the community. His greatest satisfaction is to see people enjoy what they created. When family  or couple strolling around and he sees the connection between plants and communities. It is a great source of fulfillment. More exciting thing to do is when they have funds for research in the mountains. For example fund to research on The Magnolia Vallartense  discovered by a Vallartense, Ricardo Diaz Borioli who was one of the first who noticed that the magnolias here looked different than Magnolia Pacifica. Together with researchers of the University of Guadalajara including Dr.Antonio Vazquez Garcia, Dr. Miguel Angel Munoz Castro, Ana Nunez Rubio and several others investigated this plant and turns out it is a distinct species and named it Magnolia Vallartensis  in honor of our city of Puerto Vallarta. And the city selected this as their official tree. A lot of their work is in collaboration with University of Guadalajara CUCBA campus and also  CUC campus central Univisidertado de la Costa  As well as funds from Magnolia Society International. You can go to www.vbgardens.org for the Puerto Vallarta Botanical Gardens website or go to  www.issuu.com/vallartabotanicalgardens for the online edition of the magazine. [caption id="attachment_553" align="alignleft" width="300"] Cheryl L. Wheeler International Peace Garden of Mexico[/caption] Their peace garden will be announced as Mexico’s International Peace Garden with approval of the Mayor of Vallarta and International Peace Garden Foundation on February 16, 2pm-4pm.         REFERENCES:   Puerto Vallarta Travel Show Vallarta Botanical Gardens Vallarta Botanical Gardens Magazine   And in honor of the dedication of the Cheryl L. Wheeler International Peace Garden of Mexico, on February 16th 2017,  I produced this episode of the Puerto Vallarta Travel Show to coincide with the week of the dedication so get out and see this fabulous addition to the Jardenas Botanicum de Vallarta, the Vallarta Botanical Garden. And after you visit, don’t forget to give it a good review on Trip Advisor and see if we can make this place the #1 attraction in Puerto Vallarta. And don’t forget the Botanical Garden for a party or a wedding or a renewal of your vows folks. I will have links to everything Vallarta Botanical Gardens in my shownotes at puertovallartatravelshow.com. so check it out, check them out and add the gardens to your trip next time you come to Vallarta. That should do it for this episode of the Puerto Vallarta Travel Show. Again you will find all of the show notes to this podcast and all of our previous podcasts including the links to JR’s site and to the website where you can purchase the fantastic music of Alberto Perez who we will listen to as we play out this episode at www.puertovallartatravelshow.com, Remember that this show is an interactive one. I need your participation by sending me emails with questions for JR that you would like to hear him answer on air with me. And please Email me your suggestions for show topics that you think  I should be talking about by clicking on the contact us tab on my website at the top of the home page at puertovallartatravelshow.com. And remember, if you are considering booking any type of tour while you are in Puerto Vallarta, you must go to Vallartainfo.com, JR’s website and reserve your tour through him, right from his website. Remember the value for value proposition. His experience and on the ground knowledge of everything Puerto Vallarta in exchange for your making a purchase of a tour that you would do anyway, you’re just doing it through him as a way of saying thank you. It costs no more than if you were to use someone else so do it. Really. And when you do take one of these tours, email me about your experiences. Maybe you can come on-board and share with others what you liked or didn’t like about the tour. Again, Hit the contact us tab and send us a message. Just takes a little of your time. And one more favor please, if you like this podcast, please take the time and give me a good review on iTunes if you would. It would be so appreciated if you would just take the extra time to do that for me. That way we can get the word out to more and more people about the magic of this place. So, thanks to you for listening all the way through. Thank you Bob Price, Neil Gerlowski, JR and especially Hillary Abrams for inviting me to the Vallarta Botanical Garden, this is Barry Kessler signing off with a wish for you all to slow down, be kind and live the Vallarta lifestyle. Relax, Manana. Nos Vemos amigos!                                

Online training courses are essential for entrepreneurs. All entrepreneurs want to provide the best products so that they can sell them effortlessly, but the problem is they don’t know how to start creating one or, they have started creating, and they're having a hard time finishing it because they want it to be perfect. In this talk with Bob Bly, one of the best in the field of copywriting and Internet marketers, Bob shares steps on how to create your product and the different modes of delivering them to your target audience. One of the ways is audio which provides a more natural and less polished product, this is what the audience likes better. Key Takeaways If all your messages are sales messages, people will be turned off. If you make a percentage of the messages pure content that provides useful information people will appreciate it more. They'll become more loyal, bigger fans and they'll buy more. Slightly over half of your emails should be pure content and the other half should be pure sales messages. There are four learning modes of online training courses; audio-listening, video-watching, reading, and experience. First, you decide if online training courses or other products should be audio or video. Different subjects demand different media. Different learning modes can be mixed throughout your online training courses, depending on what your customers prefer. You can't please everybody all the time, which is why you mix it up and make things in different media. It pays to have your content in multiple formats, for example, online training courses can be audio, video or an ebook You can put together any information product without writing a word. The finished audio product has a higher perceived value than a book, particularly when they’re online training courses. A preferred method of selling is to generate hot traffic and to send emails from my lists and my affiliates' lists to my landing pages. The Process of creating online training courses Define the topic or problem. It could be a problem that needs to be solved or a skill set you possess. Make an outline listing all the key points with either bullet points or a list of questions about how to create online training courses. Use several options for recording and producing the audio for your online training courses Another  method is using Facebook as a way to outline key information and figure out what should go into the product. This should be based on what people want to know. Put up your own little survey page where you ask for input and list topics. Publishing newsletters will make people talk to you and ask questions. Those questions tell you what they want to learn. Creating mp3 and the recording Be invited to some venue, such as an internet marketing conference or a trainee association meeting, to speak on your topic where it's a big event and they're recording it. Deliver live in front of groups, it has the energy of the live audience feedback. Work with a partner who can be either be  the interviewer or a fellow subject matter expert. and essentially to have the interview or conversation which is much more dynamic Packaging an audio Sell as a stand-alone product. Bundle it with your other products, it can be sold for a higher price since it has a higher perceived value. Not editing your audio/video may keep its spontaneity and help you finish the product in a much faster time. The audience likes things that are more natural and less polished. Books are the only medium where a higher professional level of production is demanded. Put a really good 2-minute excerpt of your online training courses, as an autoplay video on the landing page. Luis Congdon: Today, you're going to be meeting copywriter extraordinaire Bob Bly. He has published over 89 books all under well established publishing companies. He has written for over hundred different clients. He has given seminars all over for the US army. He's been on national TV multiple times. This guy is truly a legend. His brain is just packed full of so much knowledge and we're so excited to have him here to give us some lessons about how to create a product. All right! We're here with Bob Bly. It's so great to have you on the show. Are you ready to launch Bob? Bob Bly: I'm very happy to be here and I am ready. Luis Congdon: It's really awesome to have you here. I've read some of your copywriting books. There was one that's like a handbook of online training courses for copywriters. I have been following your stuff on Facebook and what's really interesting is that we've had Ben Settle on the show who is one of my friends. I love his stuff. As I've been following you, I noticed that you both have two different methods for using email.  I found that this was really cool because this kind of spurred this whole conversation that went from Facebook to the Warrior Forum. Tell me how you and your work with online training courses differs.Sell your reputation, not your online training course Bob Bly: I worked with a lot of the more mainstream internet marketers, such as Health Sciences Institute's, Newsmax, Agora Publishing, and Dr. Sears. What these guys found, is that if all your messages are sales messages people will be turned off. They will unsubscribe and your sales rate will actually go down. If you make a percentage of the messages pure content with useful information, they  will appreciate it more. They will become more loyal, bigger fans and they will buy more. I think slightly over half of your emails should be pure content and the other half should be pure sales messages. It has been a difficult choice, but based on  the economy and  a lot of personal experience and observation, by me and my clients that this is what works the best.   Luis Congdon: Booyah Ben! I hope you're listening because you just got beaten in the email game. Bob Bly: Nobody beats Ben in the email game. What I would say is maybe he misrepresents himself because he says, "Every message should sell". And yes, he does sell at the end of a lot of messages, but when reading them it's obvious that there's a lesson, some great content, and a story. They're really not pure sales messages. So I think, whether he admits it or not, he sort of follows this rule.Selling your product or online training courses First, you decide whether the product should be audio or video. Then think about the method you'll use to teach your online training courses. There's four different learning modes which are, audio-listening, video-watching, reading, and experiencing it. Different subjects demand different media. For example, if you're playing golf, you pretty much have to do a video. People have to see the swing. Like there is a guy out there named Bill Dewees who teaches people how to do voice overs. It's got to be done through audio. You need to hear him do it. For other topics to put in your online training courses, it's really your choice. The reason I mix it up is two-fold. first, you do have some customers for whom the audio method of learning is their preferred mode. They don't want to read a book or watch a video. Luis Congdon: What?! People don't want to read books? Bob Bly: Yeah! Can you imagine that? It's actually upsetting to me as a book addict. Luis Congdon: You know what we should try doing Bob, is we should try splintering a book and posting it on Facebook. Just do short versions of the book, like parts of it. Maybe people would read it that way. Kamala Chambers: It’s like one paragraph of your book at a time. And I think you have 85 books or something, Bob. That would take a long time. So when you're putting out content, are you talking about selling them on amazon? Are you selling audio products or online training courses on any membership sites? Where's your preferred place to sell your information?Using audio for your online training courses Bob Bly: Well I have published 89  paper bound books with major publishers in the industry. One reason I do audio is because some of my customers want that. It never fails. I'll send out an email advertising a new e-book and I'll get people asking, "Don't you have this on audio?" Or I'll send out an email advertising a product through audio and the person will say, "I don't want to listen to it. Do you have it in book?" You can't please everybody all the time which is why you mix up and make things in different media. - Bob Bly I know you guys are too young to remember Howard Shenson, who was very big in information and consulting in the 70s and 80s, but he made the statement, "People will pay over and over again for essentially the same content in different formats.” So that's why it pays to have your content in multiple formats. That's why I like audio. The other reason I recommend audios to other people, is that a lot of people approach me say they want to get into information marketing, but they either can't or don't want to write. They find it an exhausting mental chore to needs be avoided at all cost. And I say to them that they could put together any informational product without writing a word and of course ironically, an audio is much easier and quicker to do as well. I do have products on Amazon. I do have a membership site as well, but  really, my preferred method of selling online training courses is to generate hot traffic and send emails from my lists and my affiliates' lists to my landing pages. Some people prefer the Agora Publishing model. The model works the same way, by building a responsive house list, making deals with affiliates who have also done responsive house lists reaching to the same audience, and market your products by sending emails. This will drive the traffic to your product's landing pages. Kamala Chambers: Fantastic. So, how do you go about creating these products and online training courses? This is something that I teach also, so I'd love to hear your perspective. The big thing about it is really deciding what you're trying to sell to your audience. Through whatever it is that you're creating, what's the problem you're trying to solve or are you really aiming to support people through that process? So, I'd love to hear a little about your process when creating an audio products and online training courses. Creating audio products and online training courses Bob Bly: First, I define the topic or problem to be covered in the online training courses. Sometimes there is a problem that needs to be solved. Sometimes there is a skill set they want to master, but it's normally one of those two things. And so I open up a word file. In all caps I write the problem, trying to make it sound a little bit like a title. Don't really worry about it too much if the title isn't finished yet. Then I make an outline listing all the key points that I think  someone would want to know. Let's say I was doing online training courses about book publishing, one of my key points would be, "How to write a book proposal" and other one would be, "Where and how to find a literary agent.”  So, I make an outline that has these two key points. And then once you have that outline, you have several options for recording and producing the audio.  I could get into what those are if you wish, but I always start with an outline. You can either just use bullet points or have list of questions. Luis Congdon: You know, a method that I've really loved is using Facebook as a way to create the outline and to figure out what should go inside of the copywriting. The first digital product I ever made was about podcasting. I created a Facebook group, that was completely free, for podcasters teaching them all about podcasting. Everything related to podcasting was posted inside this group. The podcasting aficionados, the fans, and the people that do it every day, joined this group. They started asking questions and I started taking note of the questions that came up repeatedly. Sometimes, I would create polls or I would go in there and ask a question to see what kind of feedback I would get. Or if I didn't know an answer but I saw this question being asked a lot, I'd go and ask it. I would find out what the answer was from other experts and then later, once I had all the content and knew what everybody wanted because I'd been checking out this market for a while inside of Facebook, I had a program put together and my outline was pretty much pre-made for me by the people who needed the product itself. So this makes it very easy to sell it back to them and you can feel confident when you say, "This is what you guys have been asking for. So here it is." You can do the same for online training courses as well. Getting feedback is essential to improve the quality of your online training courses Bob Bly: That's a smart method that people will love. There's another method where you put up your own little survey page, but not using SurveyMonkey. It’s just a little landing page where you ask questions and list topics about how you can increase the quality of online training courses. Let's say, the topic was climbing Mt. Kilimanjaro. The questions are: 1. Do you want to know what gear you need? 2. What's the best way to get to the mountain? 3. What kind of guides would you hire? You ask them to say, "This is important, can you drive? There is a lot of traffic there.” Then you can reward them by saying, “If you fill in the form and click submit, we'll give you a book  that will tell you more.” That's another way to do it, but I like what you suggested even better. I have a medium to a medium small list of 65,000 subscribers. So when I publish my newsletters, I get a lot of white mail. I get a lot of people replying to these emails. I find out from what they say, what they want to know. People ask me questions by phone also, but mainly by email. Those questions tell me what they want to know about and what will go into your online training courses.Surveys to understand the market to sell your online training courses Kamala Chambers: Well, surveys are so powerful and I just want to reiterate that we should never underestimate the power of a survey and understanding your market. You could put out audio products all day long, but if people don't want it if they're uninterested in it and they're not hot to buy it, then what's the point? I think it's just absolutely important and necessary to first survey your audience. Find out what they want in your online training courses or track your audience, just like you were saying Luis. Another thing to note, is that when I've created my first info product I was a coach and I'd find  myself repeating the questions to clients and getting the same answers over and over again. So I said, "Well, I'm just going to record this." Then, it was so much easier that I could just get passive income from online training courses, rather than having to be a one-on-one coach. Bob Bly: Well first, if you don't mind, I don't think we should talk about how to create online training courses, because the outline and the questions are the raw materials for it. But how do you actually create the mp3 file and the recording? Well, there are a couple of options for doing it.The two best methods to sell your online training courses One of the best ways is to be invited to some venue, to an internet marketing conference or a trainee association meeting, to speak on your topic where it's a big event that they're recording, you make a deal with them. Normally, they have you sign something that says they make all the money from the event and they keep the recording. I say to them, "You can do all that, but I also get a copy of the mp3 and I co-own the rights." A lot of my informational products are audio and video files that I've delivered in front of live groups. The advantage of that, is that it has the same energy and feedback of a live audience. So that's one method. My favorite method is to work with a partner who can be either just the interviewer or a fellow subject matter expert and essentially to have the interview or conversation. This is much more dynamic than just you sitting in a studio by yourself, reading the bullet points and questions and then answering then them. This is very monotone and won't keep the listener interested. Those are 2 of my favorite ways to sell them. Luis Congdon: Sounds like podcasting to me; in its early days. You know, one of the things that I see a lot of people do that is really powerful, is link to do a podcast. This is a subject that I'm passionate about. I'm very passionate about using podcasting to sell online training courses. I'm known as the podcast guy. I'm known for being Facebook organic and building a business on Facebook that is all organic. However, whenever I tackle these subjects, I'm kind of like a technician and I spend a lot of time with it and it's not what most people will do. And so the product that needed to be created  is  answering the question, "How to do these things?" And they're very specific. And people wouldn't really want to pay a lot of money for it or only a few people would end up buying it. And by so surveying the audience, I was able to find out more of the global stuff. I mean, that's really what you're getting out there. Right Bob? Bob Bly: Yeah. I'm not used to podcasting, although my younger son is a podcasting addict. So those are couple of the ways that we create online training courses. Market your online training courses - Define your demographic In terms of selling them, different people will use different mechanisms, but I will either take an audio and sell it as a stand-alone product or I’ll bundle it with other stuff I have. When you do something that's bundled in multimedia, you can charge a higher price as it has a higher perceived value. So those are the two ways I packaged an audio product. I still offer them both as a downloadable mp3 and in a CD format, which a lot of people do not do anymore. Kamala Chambers: The new thing is flash drive. You can just drop ship them a flash drive. Do you ever do that for your online training courses? Bob Bly: No. We either let them download the mp3s for the online training courses or we send them a CD album. My demographic is older and lot of them like to put a CD in the radio of the car and listen that way. The younger people will tend to want a digital form of the online training courses for one of their devices like a laptop or an iPad or they’ll download it to their iPod. Kamala Chambers: Yes. It's really important to know your demographic and how you deliver your products including online training courses. That's another reason to do a survey. That's one thing that I ask when I put out a new product. I always ask, "How do you want your information delivered to you?" I'm really surprised sometimes. Some audience, they just want videos, some want the flash drives, some want the audio, and then its blend for others. So I think it's important to appeal to your audience and mix it up too. Really great stuff! So I want to throw this in there. This could be really easy. The first time I put out a product I had a headset and I had whatever recording software came with my computer. I have a Mac so it was garage band style.  Just open it up and started recording. It can be as easy as you want it to be or you can make it complex. You just and your friend like Bob was talking about. Have your friend in the room with you and then have someone who's also an expert. You guys can banter about it and get stuff out that way. So Bob, anything else about creating online training courses before we get into selling it? Bob Bly: What I do when I'm doing it, with a friend who's really a pure colleague and also knowledgeable in the topic, we tend to sit at a table with a nice high quality digital recorder. Each of us has a nice high quality digital microphone. And we have a conversation about it. And one thing that shocks people, we don't edit it. It is pure raw, right off the first draft and it has the spontaneity that a lot of editing will take away from it. And also we can do it in much faster time. And just to give you an idea of the numbers, one of the early programs I did with my partner Fred Gleek, I think we were recorded it for maybe 5 hours. That was our complete labor in it, no editing. That time, there were no mp3s. We gave it to our fulfillment house to do CD's and we sold well over $120,000 in sales worth of those online training courses. So in an hourly rate, that's pretty good. Luis Congdon: You know, that's awesome and I can't believe you just told us that you don't edit your stuff. I mean, Bob, shouldn't everything be edited these days? We want to look perfect in front of everybody.Market your online training courses - Consider audience preferences Bob Bly: It's funny and I worked in the corporate world in the late 70s. We were taught if you're going to do a marketing video, it has to be as close to broadcast quality as possible, but today that's not true. People do videos on their smartphones with their webcams. In the current state of business, people have come to like things that are a little more raw, natural, and less polished. - Bob Bly It's very strange to me but that's the way it is. Luis Congdon: Yeah. I want to agree with you on that because it totally reminds me of when we launched a program and there was this big global thing that was happening with podcasting, and I was wearing a blazer a button up shirt. The way it was received was not as great as I wanted it to be. And the team that was producing this and helping us put this thing on came back and said, "Luis, I think you should wear either just a button up shirt or a Henley so it's just a shirt with 3 buttons and long sleeves And I did that and the reception was phenomenal. They really stressed, just bring them in your living room not in your office. Bob Bly: Now, I remember the first time I gave a talk recently without a suit and tie, I was in shock. I said, "How could I be doing this?" But that's how all the speakers dress. The formal is gone and the only medium where I think a higher professional level of production is demanded is ironically, books. Luis Congdon: Yeah that's true. I get angry anytime I see a letter that shouldn't be there. It's true though. If I'm reading a book, I'm like, "Why did this person misspell that word? Do they not know that "there" should be spelled that way? I'm going to write it up. I don't know if I trust this guy anymore." Bob Bly: That is the problem. In writing the standard is higher. I had someone called me up and complain about one of my books. Luis Congdon: They called you? Bob Bly: Yeah. They said on page 3 and 33, you misspelled whatever. I said, "Not for nothing but that book is a hundred thousand words long. You know what error rate that is to have one misspelled word out of a hundred thousand?" And I did the math for him but yet, when people see a typo, they have a very negative reaction. If you noticed, none of us wants a regular job on this callI. If you're looking for a job and you have one typo on your LinkedIn profile or your resume, that's it. Luis Congdon: Done. So now, if I go back to this book Bob, how you corrected or -- Bob Bly: No because it was not an eBook. It was a paperback book published by my regular publisher and there were 5,000 copies in the warehouse. Kamala Chambers: Of course. Bob Bly: So I wrote them a letter and said, "On the next printing, could you fix this?" Whether they actually will remember to do that is another story. Kamala Chambers: Well, before we wind up, any pro level tips you want to give to sell your audio products? Luis Congdon: Any last tips that people should know about the How to be a copywriter. Bob Bly: I have found that with video and audio, if you can find one or if you have one, putting a really good 2-minute excerpt as an autoplay video on the landing page really helps. Give them a little sample. And we do that with a lot of our audio and video files. Kamala Chambers: Awesome. Well, it's been so great to have you on the show. Luis Congdon: It’s our pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much for your time Bob. Bob Bly: I really enjoyed it. Read MORE - Click HERE   MUST HAVE RESOURCES Free Gift From Bob Bly – Make Money Online Report  Write & Grow Rich – Earn Money Writing  Become An Instant Guru – Build Your Fame  Launch School – Create and Sell Your Own Online Training Courses 

Heyang: A sincere invitation to meet up will be included in a busy schedule even if it means making time in between lunches and business conferences. If whoever's on the other end of the conversation not giving you an exact date but rather a "Let's meet sometime, another time" you may be on the receiving end of a polite declination, that is called "改天再约噢". So guys, how is the phase "改天再约" or "another day we meet up", how should we interpret it?Liu Yan: Well, I think the easiest way to interpret this thing is basically "let's say goodbye and that's it."Heyang: Hahahahaha… So cruel.Bob: Well it's cruel whichever way you say. I mean you could come out to it and just say "Look, I don't want to talk to you again. I can't help you, go away", or you could say "Oh yeah, let's meet up another day". So it means the same. So I still think, even if you just say "let's meet another day", it's just as cruel, because you know what's being said, in the back of your mind you know what's being said.Heyang: Should we comfort the sensitive souls and broken hearts of people that say "I was expecting another day will come and it never comes."Liu Yan: Well, there are people like that. I certainly think of that Chinese phrase "too young too simple." Hahahaha, 太傻太天真. So sometimes you just have to know that, certain things are not meant to be taken literally. So when people say that, that just means "let's say goodbye" and that's it.Bob: I think it gets more complicated, doesn't it? Because it's what is intended by somebody saying "let's meet another day" and what people perceive from that. Because sometimes even if I would say "we'll meet another day" meaning "we'll never gonna meet again. Thanks, goodbye." You might actually think "Oh, no, he really means it. That's great" You know. And you'll go home happy, because you've interpreted it in a different way. So I still think even once you've used this phrase, there is still plenty of room for misinterpretation. Hope, maybe the word is. Heyang: Oh, that glimmer of hope, that is dashed.Liu Yan: I don't know, maybe different people have different expectations. Personally, even if someone says the sentence to me in a very sincere way, I would still take it as goodbye. Cuz as far as I can see, if you really want to say "let's meet some other time", you will say something more than this. Probably say "okay, I will reach out to you on Wechat later and we'll set a date." If he adds that sentence, then I will believe what he actually means. Heyang: Okay, so I think here is sort of a time for people to comb through their previous social experience and there are so many of these situations that you kind of really need to read between the lines and you kind of need to really read the room as well to understand what it really means. And there are some other American equivalents apparently, and it would be interesting to hear what Bob has to comment on that.Bob: Translate them into British.Heyang: Yes please.Bob: So you go first with these phrases.Heyang: Okay, so first of all, at a restaurant, when an American says "It's so good, it's so delicious, I love it.", that means a normal meal. And when it's "It's not bad", the taste was not good. And when an American says "I was a bit disappointed", and basically the food is...Liu Yan: It's appalling.Heyang: Yeah, yeah. So Bob, how would interpret those words, or how would you say it?Bob: I was thinking about this earlier. I think that the more British people go over the top, the more that we say we love something, the opposite is true. So if I were to say…Heyang: You guys are twisted.Bob: Nonono, you just have to understand, you know. If you say "oh, that was quite nice" that means you REALLY liked it. Alright. But if we go beyond that and say "you know that was absolutely fabulous, I can't wait until we do it again.", that is for British person so disingenuous that "its never gonna happen again. I never want to see you again. Please don't take me to that restaurant. Umm, if I can I need to rush off now, because I'm feeling ill."Heyang: You know, okay, I think in that kind of situation... Bob correct me if I'm wrong, cuz I'm not British. But I think in those kinds of situations, you need to see the body reaction, the real reaction of that person. Because...Liu Yan: The body language.Heyang: Yeah, in the same situation when I was in London. Yeah I was on a date, and the guy was like... Very positive comments and I was trying to get to the bottom of it. And I saw that his face was like really happy and maybe I little bit red. And I was like "hmm, maybe things are going okay". But sometimes it's so twisted that in China, like usually, guys have this excuse of saying that when a girl says NO, she actually says YES". But often, when a girl says NO, it's NO, alright. Just for those Chinese guys. Anyway, but in that situation, in the UK, I felt sometimes when a British guy saying NO, actually it means YES. And what?Bob: Well YES means NO and NO means YES. I mean I don't think you can get very much clearer than that.Liu Yan: Well if that's the norm, then yes, you guys are twisted. And just so you know...Bob: You know what, I'll tell you what's the simple way of telling it, that is to see how long they breathe before they actually give you a reply. Because if they do it quick, that means they're delaying in giving you an answer, which means it's probably not the answer that you want. So just look at how they breathe.Heyang: Hahahaha, how they breathe and the adjectives that they are throwing into this.Bob: Yeah, just keep it low key and that's what you should do.Liu Yan: Just so you know, Bob, you're fabulous.Heyang: How should I interpret that?Bob: You know what, I'm not sure. Heyang: Liu Yan, just give it straight to us, what do you mean?Liu Yan: He's fabulous.Heyang: Okay, so take the word for it, is it?

Do you love the idea of cash flow from rental properties, but you’re TERRIFIED that an air conditioner will break or a tenant will sue or that something will happen that consumes all your cash flow and turns your rental into a money pit?  Fret no more, my friends:  There’s an ULTRA SAFE way to profit from rentals, and never, ever worry about a single one of those risks.  I’m Bryan Ellis.  I’ll tell you all about it right now in Episode #122.--------Hello, SDI Nation!  Welcome to the podcast of record for savvy self-directed investors like you.This is a big day, my friends!  Later today, and also this evening, I’ll be delivering a special webinar for those of you who are REALLY SMART about rental property investing.  We’ve got a number of opportunities – 17 houses in 3 different markets, to be precise – which are all EXCELLENT rental opportunities… they are located in great markets with SOLID appreciation prospects and a strong supply of tenants, they each come already loaded with a paying renter and immediate cash flow for the buyer, they each have experienced, competent property management in place, and, BEST OF ALL… each of these occupied properties are available for purchase by savvy investors like you at BELOW-MARKET pricing.  That’s right… no cap rate-based pricing mumbo jumbo here!  We figure out what the property would sell for under normal market conditions to a normal retail buyer… and we sell it to you for LESS!Every one of these properties are Certified as S3-Compliant:  Simple, Safe and Strong.  Really solid bets.That event happens once this afternoon and once this evening, so if you’d like to get an invitation to join us at no cost as my guest, just text the word INVITATION to 33444 right now, or visit SDIRadio.com/invitation.  Either way works, but this particular event happens once later today and once more later tonight, so you’ve got to jump on this right away!  Just text the word INVITATION to 33444 or visit SDIRadio.com/invitation right now!So… when you buy rental property the RIGHT WAY… meaning in a way that’s 100% consistent with my SIMPLE, SAFE and STRONG formula… you’re in a solid position for near-term cash flow and tax benefits and for substantial long-term growth in equity and therefore your wealth.  That’s a beautiful, beautiful thing… and for most of you, it’s an option to be seriously considered.But there are some of you who, entirely reasonably, simply do not want to take the risk that there could be big unforeseen expenses with a rental property.  Let’s face it, folks:  Even in the best of rental properties, things can go wrong – severe weather can damage property, perfectly stable tenants can experience sudden emotional upheaval, and damage the property, or the surrounding area can go into decline, hurting rents and appreciation. Now, with proper planning, the risk of these things drops to nearly zero, but the risk remains.  And for some people, even the thought of the possibility of that risk is sufficiently stressful that it would be worthwhile to avoid that risk entirely.But there’s a GREAT way for those of you who agree with the fundamental wisdom of buying rental property in the S3 way – simple, safe and strong – to benefit from rentals without facing down those risks for even one single moment.Here it is:  Let’s say you’ve got $100,000 that, ideally, you’d like to invest into a rental, but you just don’t want the stress from that risk.  What could you do instead?How about this:  Why don’t you LEND that $100,000 to ANOTHER INVESTOR who is buying really solid S3-Certified rental property?  You’ve got some great assurance that they’re investing into an asset of high quality, because the S3 Certification is a high standard which most rental properties are unable to meet.  And that’s important, because that S3-Certified property is going to be your COLLATERAL… your GUARANTEE, that you get your payment every single month.But YOU must do that safely.  So if an investor wants to buy a property that costs $100,000, then why don’t you lend him HALF of that… $50,000?  That way, your collateral – the real estate – is worth exactly twice what you lend against it.  This puts you in an INCREDIBLY safe situation, and makes it a virtual certainty that the investor will always make their payments on time to you.  And those payments will bring you an interest rate that is EXTREMELY attractive for the right investor.Who is the RIGHT investor for this type of opportunity?  Well, if you’ve still got decades before retirement, this isn’t for you at all.  But for those of you nearing or already in your retirement years, this is a great option.I was speaking just yesterday to one of your fellow listeners to this show named Bob.  Bob, if you’re listening now, it was a pleasure to speak with you!  Bob is clearly a very savvy investor and has a substantial portfolio.  He was looking for great investment opportunities for himself, but what struck me most was part of the conversation towards the end when he told me about his mother.Bob’s mother is about to be moved into an assisted living facility.  She has some savings of her own, and Bob has some responsibility for helping her with that money.  He mentioned that he was frustrated because her money is in a bank CD collecting 0.1% interest.  0.1% interest?  WOW!  My friends, that’s not a certificate of deposit, that’s a certificate of depreciation!  I checked at my own small local bank and found out that he’s not kidding about that rate.  It’s disgusting.So Bob’s mother could benefit profoundly from this type of strategy, because she’d collect a very respectable rate of about 5% - literally 50 TIMES what her CD is paying her – and the capital would be safe, Safe SAFE!  Folks, loans made for only ½ of the property value virtually never go bad.  And the monthly payments would just hit Bob’s mom’s account each and every month, month in and month out, reliably, like clockwork.  In fact, a lot of lenders have their payments automatically debited from their borrower’s checking accounts!And the best part?  If you or your parent get involved in this lending, there’s PLENTY of opportunity to deploy your capital, AND it’s very, very easy to get a 3rd party guarantee so that in the indescribably unlikely event that the loan goes bad, the 3rd party will step in and cash you out with no trouble at all.  It’s an amazing win-win scenario.Folks, obviously, this isn’t for everybody.  But it might be for somebody you know and love.  For most of my listeners, the wisest thing for you to do is to join us for today’s training where I’ll introduce you to 3 great rental markets, and the 17 properties we have on offer there that are available at BELOW market pricing.  Great opportunities, every one… and I’m eager to explain them to you.But for those of you looking for an ultra-conservative strategy that pays up to 50 TIMES the prevailing rates on CD’s… it’s an extraordinary fit.So here’s how to move forward, regardless of which camp you sit in:If you – or your parent or other loved one – needs a strong but ultra-conservative way to generate consistent income, just as I’ve described in this episode, then set up a time to talk with me.  You can do that by texting the word GUIDANCE to 33444 or by visiting SDIRadio.com/guidance.Or, if you’re on the other side of that equation, and you’re looking to actually accumulate GREAT rental properties in GREAT markets with SOLID tenants and highly reliable property management… at well-below-market pricing, then I’d love to have you on today’s training.  To get your invitation, you can text the word INVITATION to 33444 or you can visit SDIRadio.com/invitation.Either way, my friends, I have one piece of advice I’ll hope you’ll live by, and it is: Invest wisely today, and live well forever! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Twelve criminals are recruited to form a special unit tasked with taking out the German high command during World War II. Can Major Reisman get these murderers, psychopaths and general malcontents in shape in time to complete the mission? And why in the heck would they let Maggot be a part of this group? This group of dirty, stinky, rotten troops who for the most part are totally redeemed by the end of the film. Bob and I kick off the episode with a special mention for Nunnally Johnson one of the screenwriters for the movie, along with many many many other films including “The Grapes Of Wrath”. Nunnally Johnson did yeomans’ work for over 30 years in Hollywood and he doesn’t get nearly enough credit. So Bob and I give him some!

It took host Bob Tarte so long to say the title of the show, "Not a Non-bird Birding Show, Take 2," that it wouldn't fit it into a single podcast. So Bob and Book Character Bill Holm are back for the second half of their trip to Magee Marsh in northern Ohio, where they lose themselves among a flurry birds and birders. Did they make it through the experience with their sanity intact? Does an ostrich have wings? More details on this episode MP3 Podcast - Not a Non-Bird Birding Show, Take 2 (Part 2) with Bob Tarte

Mike & Billy receive a LIVE report from the Irish Open from Dan with GolfCentralDaily.com.  Joining Mike & Billy in the first hour of the show is Bob Skura, Author of "How Great Golfers Think" and "Peanuts, Pianos & Pavlov's Dog.  Check out his website at www.howgreatgolfersthink.com. Background Bob Skura Bob discovered the secrets to the mental game of golf in response to failure. He had ambitions to play professionally but a stint on the Canadian tour didn’t turn out as planned. He was 21 at the time, and like most golfers, was perplexed by why he could shoot the lights out one day and hit it sideways the next. So Bob sat down and took stock of his attributes. First he wondered if his physique was the problem. There were players on the Tour who were taller, smaller, heavier and lighter than Bob. They were making a great living at it, so he eliminated body type as a factor. Then he wondered if his mechanics were good enough. Some players like Anthony Kim swing perfectly on plane, but others like Jim Furyk and Kenny Perry have unorthodox styles, yet still manage to win big money. So Bob concluded that swing mechanics alone don’t determine a golfer’s success. Finally Bob considered his equipment and training. But he realized that all of the money he had spent over the years on drivers, utility clubs, books, videos and swing aids had done more to make his basement look like a golf warehouse than help him lower his scores. So Bob concluded that the secret to making those days of stellar performance a more frequent occurrence wasn’t based on anything he could do physically. The answer had to have something to do with what was going on between his ears. Intrigued by these observations, Bob began reading all the psychology literature he could find on human performance, hoping to uncover secrets to the mental game. For many years he studied the ideas of more than 100 renowned psychologists like Maria Montessori (childhood education), Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (Guru of Flow), D.H. Meichenbaum (SIT Stress Inoculation Training), Lev Vygotsky (function of language in human development), Edwin Locke and Gary Latham (goal-setting), and Albert Bandura (self-efficacy). As a result Bob came to realize that our mental skills – how we think, talk and play – are as fundamental to success in the mental game of golf as grip, posture and alignment are to the physical game. Click here for the Deal of the Week courtesy of Golflandwarehouse.com use promo code "GTR" for BIG discounts! Thank you to our GTR Partners please visit their sites and support the businesses that support GTR! Slickstix Avila Beach Golf Resort Blacklake Golf Resort Golflandwarehouse Avila La Fonda Hotel Inn at Avila Beach Email Mike and Billy at info@golftalkradio.com with questions, comments or whatever