Podcasts about mcats

There are numerous cracks in the pipeline from aspiring high school graduate to medical student. Learn from Drs Marina and Zulma where they nearly lost their way, and how a growth mindset will help to keep your eyes on the prize if you fail a class, you see people bragging about MCATs or publications online, or an advisor tells you to go another way.

Show Notes: Daniel Brotman shares his journey from undergrad to medical school. After finishing a year of research in Boston, he decided to work for a year before applying for medical school. He had already taken the MCATs and taught Stanley Kaplan during his year off. He also worked in the lab at Brigham and Women's Hospital. Music and Circadian Rhythm  Daniel talks about his love of music. He considered himself a better musician than singer, and he loved playing piano. He has a 1930 Steinway piano and plays piano karaoke for fun. He has been participating in a music group at Harvard and has heard about other Harvard alums joining similar groups. From music the conversation turns to circadian rhythms, which are rhythms that cycle through the body based on the action of the circadian pacemaker. Circadian rhythms are synchronized to the 24-hour day based on visual stimuli, such as light coming into the suprachiasmatic nucleus of the hypothalamus. Internal Medicine and Finding Work/Life Balance  Daniel was accepted to medical school after his year of research. He started at the University of Virginia and found it to be a beautiful, traditional place. He initially didn't want to do internal medicine but discovered his passion for it at the end of his third year. He married his first wife, Edith, while in medical school. Daniel graduated from medical school and went on to become a hospitalist at the Cleveland Clinic. He chose to practice inpatient medicine due to his love for it and the intense work required for his family. Hospital medicine was a new field at the time, and Daniel's career began there. Working as a Hospitalist Daniel explains that being a hospitalist means practicing in the hospital rather than having an outpatient practice. Patients often come in through the emergency room and need an inpatient doctor to help them through their acute illness. Daniel's role is also as a consultant to help surgeons care for their patients who have medical issues or help other disciplines help care for their patients who have medical issues. Hospital Medicine is defined by the site of practice being in the hospital, similar to an emergency room medicine doctor practicing in the emergency department. After leaving the Cleveland Clinic, Daniel returned to Hopkins, where he started the Hospitalist program.  He learned that humility is essential in healthcare, as taking care of patients alone doesn't make for a good team. He also learned that medicine quickly gets out of date, with many concepts still valid but some completely turned on their heads. Overall, his experiences and lessons learned over the years have helped him become a more effective and compassionate healthcare professional. The Goldilocks Phenomenon Daniel Brotman discusses the importance of humility in healthcare, particularly in the context of medical knowledge and practices changing. He gives the example of beta blockers and heart failure treatment. He explains that beta blockers can drive patients into congestive heart failure by reducing their heart pumping activity, which is crucial for patients with weak heart muscles. However, studies have shown that beta blockers can be beneficial for those with weaker heart muscles. Daniel discusses the Goldilocks phenomenon, where doctors should not just jump on the latest research from journals but also not gravitate towards every new strategy published in medical literature. This can lead to side effects or challenges with the effectiveness of new drugs. He suggests that doctors should not rely solely on society's guidelines, as they may not always be updated over time. Instead, they should look for guidelines synthesized by knowledgeable professionals who have considered all issues and come up with a synthesis that makes sense. He also discusses the importance of humility in healthcare, stating that it is essential to rely on the expertise of colleagues and the entire team rather than oneself. AI in Healthcare The conversation turns to AI in healthcare such as Bridge, which listens to doctor conversations and creates notes based on them. While Bridge is effective in some cases, it struggles to put things fully in context. For example, it might report that the patient denies edema, which is not what it intended to convey. Despite this, it can create a note without looking at anything. However, there are potential areas where AI can make errors, which doctors should be aware of.  And it cannot provide a diagnosis. Doctors should be cautious when using AI tools, as the consequences of not double-checking their work can be significant. AI is expected to be beneficial in making recommendations for treatment strategies, but it should not replace doctors' work.  Directing the Hospitalists Program at John Hopkins Daniel has been directing the Hospitalist program for almost 20 years. He has since become a full professor and has an endowed chair named after John Flynn, a mentor and resident. He enjoys helping junior hospitalists navigate their career paths, which can be diverse and include research, quality improvement, or patient care. He has a great team of doctors to work with and mentor. One of the biggest challenges of leading a group of 50 hospitalists is delegation. Brotman has worked on developing ways to trust junior leaders and structure supervision in a way that maintains quality control. He has also learned to provide feedback to junior leaders, as they are high-performing and smart. Another challenge in leadership is trying to harmonize the economics of their work with clinical outcomes or academic outcomes. Many doctors feel pressure to be productive, which can negatively impact patient care.  Influential Harvard Professors and Courses Daniel discusses his experiences at Harvard, including his involvement in research and coursework in circadian rhythms with professors, which he found to be a significant part of his junior and senior year. He also mentions his passion for science and his focus on mastering content to pass tests. His interests have expanded since then, and he still enjoys reading non-fiction books and entertaining activities. He also enjoys skiing, although he was not very good on the ski team in his freshman year. Timestamps: 00:02: Dan's Journey from Harvard to Medical School  03:36: Understanding Circadian Rhythms  06:00: Medical School and Early Career  08:40: Hospitalist Career and Lessons Learned 22:26: AI in Medicine and Leadership Challenges 32:43: Personal Reflections and Broader Interests  37:19: Final Thoughts and Contact Information  Links: John Hopkins website: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/ Email: brotman@jhmi.edu Featured Non-profit This episode's featured non-profit is Innovations for Poverty Action (IPA) recommended by Colin Teichholtz who reports: “Hi. I'm Colin Teichholtz, class of 1992 the featured nonprofit of this episode of The 92 report is Innovations for Poverty Action, or IPA. IPA discovers and advances what works to improve the lives of people living in poverty around the world. IPA has country offices throughout Africa, Asia, Latin America and the Caribbean. IPA is all about more evidence and less poverty. I've personally been a supporter of IPA for over a decade, and as of earlier this year, I'm honored to have the opportunity to serve as a member of the board. You can learn more about IPAs work at poverty, dash, action.org, and now here is Will Bachman with this week's episode.” To learn more about their work visit: https://poverty-action.org/

Ruba Sarris Sawaya is a distinguished medtech executive with over 20 years of experience. Ruba discusses her journey from pre-med research to leading roles in market access strategy and consulting for medical device companies. She emphasizes the importance of curiosity, lifelong learning, and strategic thinking in her career. Ruba shares insights on women's empowerment in a male-dominated industry and the significance of broadening skillsets beyond assigned roles. Guest links: www.MediStrat360.com | www.rizlabhealth.com  Charity supported: Save the Children Interested in being a guest on the show or have feedback to share? Email us at podcast@velentium.com.  PRODUCTION CREDITS Host: Lindsey Dinneen Editing: Marketing Wise Producer: Velentium   EPISODE TRANSCRIPT Episode 040 - Ruba Sarris Sawaya [00:00:00] Lindsey Dinneen: Hi, I'm Lindsey and I'm talking with MedTech industry leaders on how they change lives for a better world. [00:00:09] Diane Bouis: The inventions and technologies are fascinating and so are the people who work with them. [00:00:15] Frank Jaskulke: There was a period of time where I realized, fundamentally, my job was to go hang out with really smart people that are saving lives and then do work that would help them save more lives. [00:00:28] Diane Bouis: I got into the business to save lives and it is incredibly motivating to work with people who are in that same business, saving or improving lives. [00:00:38] Duane Mancini: What better industry than where I get to wake up every day and just save people's lives. [00:00:42] Lindsey Dinneen: These are extraordinary people doing extraordinary work, and this is The Leading Difference. Welcome back to another episode of The Leading Difference podcast. I'm your host Lindsey, and I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Ruba Sarris Sawaya. Ruba is a medtech executive who has been passionately committed to the medtech industry over the last 20 years. She is a leader with a reputation for cultivating loyal, engaged, and collaborative teams and who carries a visionary mindset with the ability to conceptualize and execute effective strategies that have contributed to transformative growth and innovation in the medtech space. She is currently leading market access strategy for RizLab Health portable diagnostics devices, enabling access for patients with the greatest healthcare disparities. Concurrently, she is the managing partner for MediStrat360, medical device consulting firm with a mission to accelerate the journey from concept to market for groundbreaking medical devices. Her educational background includes a bachelor of arts from Austin College with a major in biology and a double minor in chemistry and physics, a master's in public health in epidemiology from the University of Texas Health Science Center, in addition to her acceptance and completion of the leadership studies program at the highly competitive Posey Leadership Institute. Ruba brings a wealth of corporate strategy expertise, and a track record enabling successful device commercialization and market access. All right. Welcome to the show, Ruba. I'm so excited to talk with you today. [00:02:16] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Thank you very much, Lindsey. I'm excited to be here. I appreciated the invite. [00:02:19] Lindsey Dinneen: Sure. Oh, absolutely. I'm so glad we got connected. So I was wondering if you could start by telling us just a little bit about yourself and your background and maybe what led you to medtech. [00:02:32] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So, I mean, I've spent the last 20 years working explicitly and specifically focused on medtech, dedicated to commercialization of really cool technologies that have a profound impact on patients' lives. And I'm grateful for the opportunity this career gave me to work on some really disruptive technologies and collaborate with some brilliant minds across the industry. I had a front row seat to seeing how the incredible impact to the medtech industry can have on transforming healthcare. So what brought me into it, I initially wanted to go to med school, like a lot of people. I covered all of the basics and then graduated. And then, I was doing preclinical research at UT Southwestern Medical Center. And I completed all the requirements for pre med the summer before, took the MCATs, did all of it. The summer before I was supposed to start, decided I had a soft heart and that may not be the best decision. And so there was a moment there of, I'm going to start with research and kind of see where I go. And ended up working with a lot of reps and connected with a lot of people within the medical device industry. So I started looking for jobs 'cause it felt like the perfect opportunity with the intent that the pre med thing was this sincerely and authentically with a focus on wanting to help patients, right? And the beautiful opportunity med device provided me is that it enabled me to do that without the risks and consequences tied to direct patient care. That soft empathy piece or the super empathy piece on mine wasn't at risk from that standpoint. So I was doing research at UT Southwestern in the physiology department, interacting and engaging from a folks working on trials perspective and then medical devices that were being used at that medical center and then started applying for jobs within medtech. Took one managing preclinical research way back when at Orthofix, transitioned and got promoted to running clinical affairs there, and then got promoted again and managed clinical affairs, government affairs, health economics outcomes, research and reimbursement for that organization. And that was a really long time ago and then moved into different career roles from there. But that's the story on that one. [00:04:52] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh, that's incredible. So, okay. So let's bring it up to present day, and you are doing some fractional work and I know that you have, I'm sure quite a full schedule just in looking at your LinkedIn profile. I could see that you're extremely active in many avenues and I just love to hear some of what you're up to these days. [00:05:13] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So I'm currently leading market access strategy and advising for a diagnostics company called RizLab Health, and they have a portable hemo analyzer that's really focused on enabling access for patients with the greatest healthcare disparities, which is really cool. I'm the managing partner for MediStrat360, so it's a consulting firm hyper focused on just medical device and accelerating that journey from concept to market for disruptive groundbreaking medical devices. So those are the two things that I'm currently focused on, and then I have some senior advising positions for quality regulatory and clinical for a couple of additional companies, one that's focused on sleep apnea devices. And that one's under an NDA. And then another diagnostics company. So I've got four fractional-- with RizLabs is to focus on device commercialization, go to market strategy. And then the focus for some of the other ones very much centered around regulatory clinical quality. [00:06:13] Lindsey Dinneen: Okay. Yeah. So, so with that you mentioned that you were doing this preclinical research and decided to switch gears a little bit. And now you've got such a, an amazing breadth of skill sets and experience and expertise. And I'm kind of wondering, within medtech, what was the journey like to learning, all these different aspects that now you are such an expert in. For example, say regulatory. [00:06:43] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: I think for me, because you don't see that often, you see a lot of folks that start in one specific area with respect to medtech, and they develop a pretty comprehensive depth in that area over the span of 20 years. I would argue that I've had an extraordinary career and that has not been my journey. And that has not been my journey mainly because I took roles within companies that were either smaller or midsize, and there was always a willingness to proactively volunteer, not even volunteer, but proactively volunteer, raise my hand when people left or when certain gaps existed that needed to be filled, and then proactively choosing to look at issues that were going on within an organization more holistically outside of my department. So just because my roles and responsibilities said I covered clinical didn't change the fact that I paid attention to a dynamic that said, there are reimbursement challenges that are happening. One, we were getting coverage and pushback from an insurance company tied to certain devices, engaging with an industry coalition to try and get some of those policies overturned, and recognizing that the information that I gained as a result of that experience identified certain gaps for the evidence portfolio for clinical affairs. So how did that happen? I think that happened because I had a habit of, I'm choosing to pay attention to what the organization needed and choosing to see the links for the existing roles and responsibilities that I had, and how they bridged across the organization. And then being proactive, quite frankly, about when I was really dedicated to every company I worked for and readily dedicated to the mission that they had and choosing to take roles that I may not have been ready for or may not have had full core competencies for in an effort to support that organization. So in a lot of cases I took it on and I was, I became an obsession and I learned everything I could and I addressed certain gaps by bringing in additional expertise with the intent that we still got the organization's mission accomplished in spite of the deficiencies or gaps or turnover that was going on. [00:08:59] Lindsey Dinneen: Wow. Yeah, that's incredible. I love that. You have been so curious and eager to learn and willing to step outside your roles and responsibilities and seek to understand what the organization needs. I'm sure that really helps now with your consulting work, because you're probably way better able to, and equipped to, find those gaps that you mentioned in a company's strategy or whatnot. And so I, what a strength to be able to bring that breadth of knowledge. [00:09:34] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: It's interesting when clients approach me about a dynamic that says, "We have this challenge." It is a prism where that challenge ties to different additional facets of the organization or facets of their market commercialization strategy. So we end up providing value and feedback that's not only solving the problem they came to us with, but providing recommendations that have an impact across different facets within that organization or within that product commercialization strategy. And I'm telling you it's, it is, that is one, I would argue, differentiating value prop that I bring to the table on the consulting side is offering that feedback where it's not it's not one sided. It's got depth to it and it touches different dimensions because we're not looking at it just within the scope of the problem as it's presented. [00:10:23] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. That's great. That's something very unique to be able to offer. And so, you know, that curiosity and growth mindset, willingness to fill in the gaps and figure out how to, where did that come from? Have you always been a very sort of curious, eager to learn, lifelong learner type individual, or is that something you developed over time? [00:10:50] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Both, I'll say both. The lifelong learner piece, definitely a part of my personality my whole life, one. Two, I will also say I was lucky in having some phenomenal mentors and strategic leaders that drove that value and the importance of that value, and enforcing us to see the bigger picture and think more holistically. And so I started out with that as part of who I am. And then on top of that, it was further reinforced by having some fantastic leaders that I was lucky enough to work with and for that emphasized the importance of that. [00:11:24] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah. And, you've mentioned having some amazing leaders that were in positions to really help mentor and guide and lead. And I'm wondering, what are some of the most impactful pieces of advice that you've received from leaders that you look up to and or now as accomplished leader yourself, what do you see as being some of the best pieces of leadership advice? [00:11:54] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So I'm gonna I'm gonna share with you some of my favorites on what makes a good leader and things to pay attention to as a good leader. So to me, anybody who's trying to explore a leadership role within medtech-- it's to everything we just talked about-- it's unbelievably important to choose to see beyond the expected. So have a deep understanding. If you're a project manager for R&D and you want to get promoted to, you want to move up the ladder, you having a deep understanding of the technical aspects of medical device is important, but it's just as important to cultivate a deep understanding of not only the technical, but the technical and business aspects. So the willingness to learn beyond the scope that you are assigned to, the willingness to recognize the importance of strategic thinking, is really important from a leadership standpoint. Additional aspects that are important with respect to strategic thinking, don't be afraid to voice ideas, but be strategic about how and when you do that. So navigating a leadership role to me really requires developing a good acumen on knowing when to assert your ideas and when to hold back, learning how to read different situations and understand the dynamics at play. I think some of the most important advice I was ever given was that we all, especially when you join a new organization, we all have a proclivity for wanting to prove our value or demonstrate our value as soon as possible. And some of the best advice I've given that I've passed along is to be strategic, is to be really good about proactively recognizing when it's a good opportunity for you to do that. And when you're better off holding back and listening and observing and understanding the dynamics of play and choosing your moments wisely on when you make impactful contributions, right? Doing that, you maximize the effectiveness of the input you provide and the influence that you end up having and sometimes holding back initially, choosing to observe and listen gives you insights that better inform your strategy for what to do or how to do it. Building a network is also really important. That's another really good piece of leadership advice. We tend to keep our head down. Early on in my career, I definitely did that. I treat networking and the relationship management as a mandatory part of the job with roles I've had where I'm within an organization and outside of that. So I think that part is unbelievably important for leadership and success. And it's not just the creating a network offers job opportunities. It's creating a network offers opportunities to seek advice and to learn and to stay plugged in from an industry standpoint. So continuous learning is about being proactive and seeking those opportunities to challenge my current thinking, quite frankly, and expand my horizons from that standpoint. [00:14:57] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Oh my goodness. That was so much great advice. Thank you for sharing all of that. I think even the first thing you said, I really appreciated about, see beyond the expected. And I think that's such, I have never heard it put quite like that before, and I really like that of your willingness to go beyond your scope, so that you keep learning and I like your idea of continuing to even challenge your own beliefs and thoughts and processes. All those things. If you can keep doing that, then you're growing, you're learning, you can't stay stagnant that way. So yeah, I appreciate that advice a lot. [00:15:38] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: One, to be clear, it comes from tons of mistakes made and lessons learned over a couple of decades for starting out in a technical role and a technical career. Those are common mistakes I see made, which is you're presenting to management on a project update, and the tendency for us technical folks, for people that started their careers out in science, is to very much focus on the technical aspects of what are going on without taking into account how that information is being presented, the impact that it's having on the politics and the different players in the room and their intent. So it's choosing to see things in a different light than the way that you're used to processing them is very important. Strategic thinking. It's different. [00:16:27] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, absolutely. And being willing, like you said, to look beyond and to approach things in a different way and maybe take a step back sometimes. Say, "Okay, I need to keep observing before I dive in with my solutions." [00:16:43] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Well, and take stretch rules. I think that's the other thing from a career development. Nobody owns your career. You own that. And If you love medtech, if you love whatever your profession may be, if your goal is advancement and leadership positions within that, but then that profession or that role, it's recognizing that you have to learn other things beyond just R&D if your goal is to manage a division or manage a sector . So I think, it's saying you're going to fulfill your roles and responsibilities and focus on accomplishing those goals, but be selfish about raising your hand for stretch opportunities that provide you exposure to other areas and dimensions of medtech that are outside of your scope, right? With the intent that you're getting that exposure is unbelievably important. [00:17:32] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yes, I could not agree more. One thing that I noticed from just looking at your LinkedIn profile is you are very passionate about a lot of issues facing our society, our community. And, I saw some speaking opportunities and things where you focus on women's empowerment and whatnot. And I was wondering if you might share a little bit about your passions outside of work that do speak to it. So even with women's empowerment, encouraging women in the medtech field and whatnot, because we have listeners who might really appreciate some of your perspective and advice on that. Would you be willing to share? [00:18:14] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Let's be very frank and transparent. I'm a woman that's been predominantly working in a male industry, and I've had some wonderful experiences, but I've also been granted some wonderful obstacles that tested my resilience and determination. I learned over time to see those challenges as an opportunity to strengthen my resolve and even my commitment. And so to me, a few pieces of advice to empower women as they navigate their own paths in leadership is to embrace your unique perspective. I think as women, we bring diverse experiences and insights to the table. And we should never underestimate the value of that viewpoint that we bring as women, right? Early in my career, and I've run into a lot of women that feel this pressure, to posture, to present themselves with a set of characteristics that are more akin to male dominated characteristics versus owning their executive presence, and recognizing the value they bring in authenticity for presenting who they are authentically and not underestimating the value of their own viewpoint versus others complying with the mass or succumbing to the pressure. So I think it's unbelievably important to honor and respect and embrace that unique perspective that you bring as a woman, trusting your instincts and not being afraid to voice your ideas. But again, unbelievably important to be strategic about when you choose to do that. And that piece of advice applies across both. And I think women have a tendency to coming into, especially high level, higher level management roles, a desire to want to prove our worth and prove we have a seat at the table. You have earned the right to sit at that table by default of the fact that you have been offered the job and you have it. Be smart, strategic about when and how you choose to weigh in, recognizing the politics at that same table, right? Is important. And then advocating for yourself and others to the point that you made about, I do quite a bit of speaking. I am on a mission to drive transformative technologies within healthcare. I'm also on a secondary mission to enable an increase in the number of extraordinary women and their commitment to that mission, right? So advocacy, empowerment, education, training on communications and engagement for women is a focus and how I choose to spend my time with the intent that I sincerely believe the more women that you have, more women and more diversity, quite frankly, that you can have in medtech, the better devices and the higher the impact that you can have with respect to innovation in medtech and an impact that MedTech can have on healthcare. So to me, that is a focus. [00:21:10] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Well, and I very much appreciate your perspective and your willingness to share about it. And the fact that this is a mission for you. So, thank you for continuing to support and elevate women in medtech, 'cause it's a need. And to your point, I appreciate you saying that women bring a unique perspective. And so that can be your superpower and you don't need to shrink. [00:21:37] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: 100 percent and authenticity, Lindsey. I think women bring a unique perspective and value the power of authenticity. Resist the urge to position or posture or present yourself as "A" because you believe that "A" is what they want to see. There is unbelievable power in an executive presence of a woman leader that is authentic in the way she presents herself. [00:22:07] Lindsey Dinneen: Yes, could not agree more. Yeah, so, your career has been so interesting and I love the running theme of you being willing to continue to learn and grow and step out of the current role so that you can fill in the gaps. And I'm wondering if there are any moments that stand out to you where it just made you go, "Wow, I am really in the right place, at the right time, in the right industry." [00:22:36] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: So there's been a few of those, but I think one of the most memorable was when-- I have had a few leadership roles within Medtronic, and there's an annual event that gets held there where patients will are willing to share their stories with company employees. And listening to those stories, you realize what a difference we were making to the daily lives of those individuals. It was unbelievably moving and it gives you a renewed sense of hope. So we all in that office, especially, it's an extraordinary group of people that are working unbelievably hard and all of us were running at 90 and it's a constant hurricane of work, right? You lose sight. of how those hundred little activities we do every day are contributing in a transformational way to the lives of others. And sitting through that two hour testimonial set with those patients was a really emotional experience that kind of puts everything in perspective. That was a good what seven years plus now since I sat through that and it still resonates with me. I still think about it all the time. [00:23:47] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really powerful too, to have those moments of realizing the impact that you're making and it is easy to get caught up in the daily grind. And, and forget that, oh my goodness is actually, this impacts somebody's life. [00:24:05] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: It brings it to focus, Lindsey. I loved that whole experience because, and I'm telling you, on the days when getting up in the morning is a little harder than others, it's a nice reminder to just force myself to recalibrate against that. And that we tolerate the craziness, we tolerate the difficulties, we tolerate the barriers and the more difficult days because we have an impact on the back end of the lives of other human beings. And that's the reason I've stayed in medtech for the last 20. There's something extraordinary about that. The ability to do that for someone else is amazing. [00:24:41] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah, it's a gift and it's something to come back to when the days are hard and long and frustrating, because you really do know what you're doing matters. Yeah. [00:24:52] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Exactly right. [00:24:53] Lindsey Dinneen: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, pivoting the conversation just for fun, imagine that you were to be offered a million dollars to teach a masterclass on anything you want. It could be in your industry, but it doesn't have to be related to it. What would you choose to teach and why? [00:25:15] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Honestly, I would teach exactly what I'm, a lot of the time I'm teaching now, which is device commercialization. And, to your earlier question about give me a couple of things that inspired you and told you were right where you needed to be, I taught a course at University of New Mexico, their innovation center a few weeks ago. And one of the nicest comments I've ever gotten from a career perspective is somebody came up to me afterwards and said, "I've been working with folks for a decade plus, and this is the first time in my life I have gotten such a good training that I walked out having a solid understanding of how these pieces tie together from a regulatory perspective and commercialization perspective." So what would I teach exactly what I'm what a lot of the time I'm teaching now from a consulting perspective, which is device commercialization. I picked a career that, that I'm lit up by and that I'm inspired by. I'd be doing the exact same thing, Lindsey. I wouldn't change a thing. [00:26:13] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. That's so great. [00:26:16] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Yeah. [00:26:18] Lindsey Dinneen: That's very special. I love that. Yeah. Okay. And then how do you wish to be remembered after you leave this world? [00:26:26] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: That I do quite a bit of mentoring. That I had an impact, that I inspired a group of people to maintain this mission to transforming healthcare. It's not just putting out and launching additional devices. It's sincerely a focus on looking at the areas across our healthcare system here in the U. S. and otherwise, and looking for opportunities to change the dynamic in a positive way. So after I die, what I want to be remembered for that the folks that I have, and I've taken on quite a bit over 20 years that I've tried to help grow and advance career wise that I inspired them to keep doing this. And I inspired them to do it well, and do it with integrity and do it right. [00:27:16] Lindsey Dinneen: I love that. Yeah, absolutely. And then final question, what is one thing that makes you smile every time you see or think about it? [00:27:27] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: I mean, personal, probably my cat. We have a British short hair that has an insanely cute face and it's impossible-- I don't care how stressful of a day I've had-- impossible not to crack a smile thinking about that fluff ball. So yeah, our cat for sure. [00:27:46] Lindsey Dinneen: Oh my word, I love that. Animals are the best. [00:27:49] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Yes, well, and she's a recent addition. So we've had her a year. And it is definitely the stress buster. [00:27:57] Lindsey Dinneen: That's perfect. [00:27:59] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: For sure. [00:28:00] Lindsey Dinneen: That's perfect. Animals are inherently just happiness. Well, this has been an incredible conversation. I am so thankful for your willingness to share about your background and what you're up to now, but especially all of your advice. It was so packed full of just amazing pieces of advice to take away. And I really appreciate that you're willing to share all of that with us. So, gosh, thank you so much for your time and thank you for being here and and doing that. I really appreciate it. [00:28:33] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: Well, and likewise, thank you for doing this again. I'm a huge advocate for getting more folks and more people and more women and more individuals involved in medtech, and recognizing the phenomenal opportunities that medtech brings from a career standpoint. And so thank you for doing this because you're spreading that message and educating people on other career options besides, you know, firefighter, doctor, lawyer, engineer. So we appreciate what you're doing too, Lindsey, this is great. [00:29:03] Lindsey Dinneen: Thank you. That made my day [00:29:05] Ruba Sarris Sawaya: It's important. We got to spread the message. [00:29:09] Lindsey Dinneen: it's very true. It's very true. And we are so honored to be making a donation on your behalf as a thank you for your time today to Save the Children, which works to end the cycle of poverty by ensuring communities have the resources to provide children with a healthy, educational, and safe environment. So thank you so much for choosing that charity to support, and we just wish you the most continued success as you work to change lives for a better world. And thank you also to our listeners for tuning in and if you're feeling as inspired as I am right now, I would love it if you would share this episode with a colleague or two, and we will catch you next time. [00:29:55] Ben Trombold: The Leading Difference is brought to you by Velentium. Velentium is a full-service CDMO with 100% in-house capability to design, develop, and manufacture medical devices from class two wearables to class three active implantable medical devices. Velentium specializes in active implantables, leads, programmers, and accessories across a wide range of indications, such as neuromodulation, deep brain stimulation, cardiac management, and diabetes management. Velentium's core competencies include electrical, firmware, and mechanical design, mobile apps, embedded cybersecurity, human factors and usability, automated test systems, systems engineering, and contract manufacturing. Velentium works with clients worldwide, from startups seeking funding to established Fortune 100 companies. Visit velentium.com to explore your next step in medical device development.

We have a saying in the world of integrative nutrition. If it's made by people in white coats, you are likely going to see people in white coats. In other words, your food could be keeping you sick. But Doctor of Social Sciences, Nicolette Richer is on a mission to change that for millions of people by 2030. On this episode of the HIListically Speaking Podcast, we take a deep dive into the healing potential of whole foods as Dr. Richer shares her insights on dismantling systemic barriers to wellness, particularly for BIPOC women. Learn about the pitfalls of the ketogenic diet and other trendy plans, and be inspired by stories of empowerment and recovery through eating from the earth. This episode is not only rich with actionable knowledge but also a call to action for those tuning in to embrace scientific literacy and health education for a healthier, more informed society. It's time to eat real to heal on the HIListically Speaking Podcast. ⁣ ⁣Full Transcript https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣ CHAPTERS/KEY MOMENTS⁣ 00:00 Intro ⁣ 00:08 Food as Medicine for Healthful Living⁣ 03:25 Addressing Health Disparities ⁣ 10:24  Holistic Healing Empowerment ⁣ 14:10 The Dangers of the Keto Diet⁣ 16:02 Media Misinformation ⁣ 19:33 Health Coaches and clients⁣ 27:02 Nutrition, Healing, and Wellness Journey⁣ 29:00 Dr. Richer's shift from government to nutrition⁣ 31:45 Rapid Fire Game⁣ 32:55 Reversing Chronic Disease and Detoxing⁣ 34:00 Hilary's closing thoughts and how to connect⁣ ⁣ ⁣ CONNECT WITH DR. NICOLETTE RICHER⁣ ⁣ https://www.instagram.com/nicolettericher/⁣ https://www.facebook.com/richerhealthconsulting/⁣ https://www.youtube.com/@eatrealtoheal⁣ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/eat-real-to-heal-podcast/id1442998357⁣ ⁣ JOIN THE REAL TO HEAL PROGRAM https://www.richerhealth.ca/eat-real-to-heal-course⁣ ⁣ PUT THE HEALING IN YOUR HANDS WITH HAVENING ⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/havening⁣ ⁣GRAB MY DISCOUNT ON COURSES ON INTEGRATIVE NUTRITION AT IIN https://sldr.page.link/4byd   CONNECT WITH HILARY⁣ https://www.instagram.com/hilaryrusso⁣ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/hilaryrusso⁣ https://www.facebook.com/hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@hilisticallyspeaking⁣ https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣ ⁣Music by Lipbone Redding https://lipbone.com/⁣ ⁣*******⁣ ⁣ EPISODE TRANSCRIPT ⁣ Full Transcript https://www.hilaryrusso.com/podcast⁣)⁣ ⁣ 00:08 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Individuals who can afford to buy food at Whole Foods, but they still choose to buy processed refined food. I've been working with these individuals for a long time. I've, quite frankly, become a little bit exhausted because we do have so much information there's too much information out there, in fact but it's interesting. I've decided to really focus on BIPOC women, and that is an area that I know I'll be focusing on probably for the next half of my life, the next 50 years, and it's the area with some of the biggest challenges, because we're still facing racism in this area. We're still facing those economic gaps as well. ⁣ ⁣ 00:43 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ All right, my friends, this is not the first time we talked about this, but imagine being able to reverse the chronic diseases in your life, the health issues that you have, with small changes and I mean really small changes that can make a difference. Like I said, this isn't the first time we talked about this. Holistic living and integrative nutrition is really a big part of that. If you can reverse 97% of the chronic diseases out there with whole food eating, with different kinds of approaches to taking care of your body, mind and spirit holistically, whole body approach, wouldn't you want to have the answers? And that is exactly why I have Dr Nicolette Richer here. She is a doctor of social sciences and she is on a mission to teach 22 million people using food as medicine by a deadline, by the way, 2030. Dr Nicolette, it is so great to have you here. Thank you so much for being on HIListically Speaking. ⁣ ⁣ 01:39 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Yeah, and thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here and share this information. ⁣ ⁣ 01:43 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ So I was chit-chatting with you before we pressed record about. You are the first doctor of social sciences I've actually had on this podcast. We're, you know well into 150 plus podcast episodes here. Being that this podcast is about holistic health well-being, turning those traumas into triumphs in our life. I've realized from the different kinds of doctors I've had on the show many in functional medicine and integrative medicine that doctors do not go to medical school and take nutritional courses. That's kind of an extracurricular and I do want to start out there. So how is being a social science doctor different? ⁣ ⁣ 02:19 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Yeah. So I was actually on the path to med school and all of our friends and our customers who ate at our plant-based whole food restaurants told me don't go to med school if I want to teach people how to reverse their chronic diseases. So I wrote my MCATs, I passed my MCAT, I was applying for med school and I really thought that was the path, that was the way I could help the most amount of people. And they were like Nikki, you're not going to be able to help people in seven and a half minute. You know practitioner patient appointments. And so they're the ones who actually the medical doctors talked me out of going to med school. And they said work with people around behavior change that's what's important around education around nutrition. And they also point blank said I'd lose my license if I was prescribing nutrition to patients who had heart disease and diabetes and cancer, etc. Etc. That's what a lot of people don't realize is they can't prescribe a specific diet as a doctor because that's not considered evidence-based medicine, even though we have thousands of studies to show that plant-based whole food eating is literally the answer to reversing 97% of all chronic diseases. ⁣ ⁣ 03:25⁣ So, being a social scientist, I get to be on the side of understanding what makes a person tick, what makes them actually engage in the behaviors to reverse a chronic disease. What are the barriers in society that prevent them from being able to reverse their disease? Because it's never just a person has a disease and they want to reverse it. No, there's economic factors, there's geographic factors, there's political policies that are in place that prevent people from accessing food, particularly if you are Black, indigenous or a person of color, and a lot of people don't know that. So it's not just a simple have a disease, choose to reverse your disease. That's not how it works. There's financial inequities that are in place, there's racism within the medical system that prevent people from getting the proper lab test done, etc. Etc. So, being a social scientist, I'm actually able to look at the systems that are in place and the systems that need to be changed that would allow somebody to even engage in the behaviors of reversing their chronic disease in the first place. ⁣ ⁣ 04:22 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And that's a big difference. That's a really big difference from what you originally went to school for, like you said, but was this something that you identified with because of your own health concerns as well? ⁣ ⁣ 04:33 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Good question and the answer is no, but a lot of people. That's. Number one question I get asked is how I got into this work. I was working in government actually creating policy for environmental policy, so I was in environmental toxicology and screening and you know wastewater management etc. Etc. ⁣ ⁣ 04:51⁣ And so in doing that work, at the same time my best friend's dad was diagnosed with stage four cancer. He was 72 years old at the time and he had metastasized to his bones. He was not given chemo surgery or radiation as a treatment option at all and they just sent him home to die. So instead he had heard about metabolic nutrition and detoxification years and years and years before. So he went back and started researching, investigating, asking lots of questions, and he immediately changed his behavior, his lifestyle. He stopped eating processed food, stopped eating pizza and burgers and fries and packaged ingredients, and he switched to organic, plant-based whole food diet, daily detoxification with supplements and added juicings for the added nutrients. And at 72 years old, he reversed his stage for metastasized cancer, where he was given three months to live and he lived another 22 more years. ⁣ ⁣ 05:44⁣ Now, being naturally a researcher and really curious, I couldn't discount what he did and just chalk it up to one anecdotal story. So I investigated the therapy to understand. You know, what did it mean, what was the science behind it? And lo and behold, it opened up a whole new world where I saw that actually, not even just for the last 200 years of published medical research and peer reviewed journal articles does this information exist. But you know, going back through traditional Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic medicine and other indigenous medicine practices, you know food has been medicine since the day every single human being was came into existence on the planet. ⁣ ⁣ 06:20 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ What is your hope when you say that you want to teach 22 million people how to eradicate their chronic diseases using food as medicine in the next, really, six years? Yeah, when you think about that, what does that mean for you? Because I know that you are putting a lot of these programs, in these wellness programs in organizations, companies and institutions, but and teaching doctors is one thing that you do, so what is how? Would that mission be a possibility for you? ⁣ ⁣ 06:49 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ yeah, I think one of the biggest, most important things any entrepreneur can do is to set a big, hairy, audacious goal. And a big, hairy, audacious goal is a goal that is bigger than anything you can ever imagine accomplishing. And if we don't set goals like that, then we we just don't set big goals. We actually set really small goals that are very easy to achieve, and so it's important to set a big, hairy, audacious goal. So that is mine. It's going to be really hard to quantify. ⁣ ⁣ 07:12⁣ For example, I was invited to China by the Ministry of Health and the Center for Chronic Disease Control to teach 600 physicians how to do this metabolic therapy that I teach. So what they ended up doing was donating 200 acres of organic farmland. The Chinese government did that and they mandated in China that every municipality needed to be in charge of the diabetes reversing diabetes using food as medicine. They now have a 150 bed wellness center where anybody in China can go to to learn the therapy that I taught these physicians. They gutted a main hospital in Beijing to put in a metabolic nutrition and detox center and including kitchens with stoves where every Wednesday evening the community can come and learn about food as medicine. So that's a country with over a billion people. ⁣ ⁣ 07:57⁣ Now, am I going to know exactly how many patients those 600 individuals, those physicians, have been able to impact in the 150 bed center and the hospital in Beijing? ⁣ ⁣ 08:08⁣ I will not be able to quantify that, but it allows me to actually reach out to organizations that I would not normally have reached out to and say, hey, can we partner? Another example is that Lululemon, which is a major employer of 34,000 employees, is one of our biggest sponsors and they made me an ambassador simply so we could get the message out, as food is medicine. So we're now working with them on a huge endeavor which is not only around chronic diseases but around mental health disorders as well, because mental health disorders are just chronic diseases, and so to really support men around the globe in reversing their suicidal ideation and mood disorders as well. So it's by partnering with these big organizations that I think I'm going to be able to achieve this goal. So, yeah, going to be hard to quantify, for sure, because I don't keep track of every single individual, but it allows me to really partner with big organizations. ⁣ ⁣ 09:00 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ You glow when you're talking about this. You really you come alive, Like I'm just watching you as you talk about, and even talking about things that are traumatic when you talk about suicide. But I think you're seeing the other side of it, like where the possibility is. ⁣ ⁣ 09:13 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Yeah, thank you for noticing that. It is definitely my life's work. It doesn't even feel like work and every time I get a client who is sitting on the side of the road. This is one example a very successful entrepreneur in our town who called me from the side of the road crying because he had a rope in his hand but couldn't figure out where to hang the rope. He had served in the British Air Forces. ⁣ ⁣ 09:37⁣ You can listen to the podcast on our Eat Real to Heal podcast his story. And then now to see him, married with two kids, running a restaurant. He completed our metabolic, nutrition and detox coaching certification. He helped his entire family reverse their head to toe psoriasis. After he healed himself of his psoriasis and his chronic diseases and mood disorders, no longer wants to take his life. He's thriving. And when you see an individual, you know really, do that 150 degree turn like that? Yeah, I can't help but glow and smile and I can give you thousands of case studies like that reversing mental health disorders, suicidal ideation, chronic diseases. It's one of the easiest things to do, but our society makes it so complicated, so I'm excited to be on the side that knows how to do it. ⁣ ⁣ 10:24 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I think that's where we truly vibe, because that's an area where I'm focusing on. As far as being a holistic practitioner in the emotional well-being field, you know, having self-regulating tools, having ways that you can put the power of emotional well-being in someone else's hands. People will say often they'll say, oh, you're a healer or you are the one that is doing the work for someone, but it's being the guide, it's being the person that says here are the tools. You're the one that's actually doing the work that empowers the actual client or patient in your case. And I think about that, like just in the work I do with Havening Techniques, which is a, you know, a psychosensory, neuroscience-based approach that changes your thoughts, moods, behaviors and habits rapidly and being able to give people those tools. Really, I think I'm seeing parts of the mirroring back. You know like you get very excited when you see that, oh yes, this is working for somebody and the work that you're doing is working for so many people. Where do you feel that the challenges are truly in the work that you do? ⁣ ⁣ 11:30 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Yeah. So we just got a book picked up by a publisher, our third book. It's called Rise Up and it's all about how women of color, it's time to rise up. It's time to reclaim our ancestral knowledge that food is medicine. It's time to reverse these chronic diseases. It's time to end the discrimination in the health field, in our food systems field, and it's time to reverse these chronic diseases. It's time to end the discrimination in the health field, in our food systems field, and it's time to really close those economic disparity gaps that we see that are huge, that really women face at higher levels than men. ⁣ ⁣ 11:58⁣ So one of the big areas for BIPOC women especially, but men as well, and all genders and identities it is the fact that so many BIPOC individuals can't even access clean, real food. So they can't access your services, they can't access my services. It is out of their ability to be able to afford them. There's policies in place that won't that prevent them from having a grocery store that sells organic, clean, real food at affordable prices in their community. These are called redline districts. You know, whole Foods will not, whole Foods will not put their restaurant or their grocery store in a redline district. ⁣ ⁣ 12:37⁣ Food deserts Well, yeah, and it's not even just food. Deserts, like just because you can get pop tarts in a grocery store, does not. That's not food. So it's actually having nutrition deserts, and so that's a huge problem. So that is the work that I'm really focused on individuals who can afford to buy, you know, food at a Whole Foods, but they still choose to buy processed, refined food. I've been working with these individuals for a long time. I've, quite frankly, become a little bit exhausted because we do have so much information there's too much information out there, in fact, but it's interesting. I've decided to really focus on BIPOC women, and that is an area that I know I'll be focusing on probably for the next half of my life, the next 50 years, and it's the area with some of the biggest challenges, because we're still facing racism in this area. We're still facing those economic gaps as well. ⁣ ⁣ 13:31 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That is something that I became very familiar with when I was working with CVS Health, because I was hosting a show called Healthy Communities. We focused on the social determinants of health and seeing the lack in some of these communities that, really, put it, halted a number of communities from being able to access what is healthier for them in their everyday, in their communities. But also it's changing the habits, because if for so long they have been eating a certain way to survive, it's changing the thought, moods, behaviors and habits to thrive, to live well to realize that they can turn so many things around, and it's not just the food, like you said, it's an emotional response as well. ⁣ ⁣ 14:10⁣ Can you touch on why keto kills? That was something that came up because we hear so much about keto on both sides. I'm curious from your perspective, why does keto kill? ⁣ ⁣ 14:20 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Yeah. So I'll actually just jump in and say it's not my perspective. It's actually what the scientific literature shows. So we have media, nutritionists, health advocates promoting keto based on a very few amount of studies and these studies have not been done long term. All of the studies that I've looked at that have been done long term. They had to actually stop the studies because they actually resulted in people having higher rates of suicidal ideation, clinical depression, which they didn't even have starting keto, higher rates of heart disease. Some studies had to be stopped because some of the patients they couldn't even carry out the long-term study because some of the patients ended up with 98% arterial blockage from keto. So they couldn't ethically continue the study because the subjects, the participants, would have died. ⁣ ⁣ 15:06⁣ So when you just look at the evidence, that is why I do not promote keto but scientifically, from a biochemical perspective as well, when you choose to eat that high amount of fat, that high amount of protein, and especially if doing it through an animal-based diet, you create what's called a TMAO reaction in the gut. This happens in everybody. It's just a basic biochemical principle. Most people have no idea what TMAO does and is. So this reaction happens and then it starts immediately to clog arteries. When you do this, you create insulin insensitivity. You cannot draw glucose and insulin across the arterial walls into the cells where it's needed. So your kidneys, your heart, all your organs that are dependent on glucose and insulin no longer able to receive it. So then you create diabetes, heart disease, mental health disorders and more. So there is no way I can get behind that, because the long-term studies show keto kills. ⁣ ⁣ 16:02⁣ So now we have a bunch of hooligans and I'll call them hooligans running around the planet. Most of these hooligans are backed by media because they running around the planet. Most of these hooligans are backed by media because they you know how media loves to. You know jump onto one little molecule like resveratrol from red wine, one study showing that resveratrol it does the body good. All of a sudden, the media is promoting red wine as being good for you. ⁣ ⁣ 16:22⁣ But what media fails to say is that you'd need to drink 12 bottles of red wine in one sitting to get enough resveratrol. That would actually be beneficial to the body. So we have people running around spreading nutritional information that do not know how to read an actual scientific study from beginning to end, and this is killing people. So it's not just keto kills, media kills. Nutritionists who fail to read scientific studies are killing people every single day, and I do not say that lightly if they're in. You don't know how many nutritionists that have patients, clients that end up coming to me afterwards because their markers are worse than when they started with that nutritionist, and so it's really, really important that we start looking at nutrition as a body of medicine that is not going to be run by people who've never read a single scientific study. ⁣ ⁣ 17:11 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I have a question about testing too. When people do come to you, do they get specific types of tests, meaning like their vitamin tests, blood work, like a full panel? What's the first step for somebody that comes to you as a patient or a potential patient? ⁣ ⁣ 17:25 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Yes. So everybody who comes to me already has years of diagnostic testing done. They have years of lab results. They have everything. Most often I don't need. There's only a few more tests that I need done. They're very minor, so they already have it. Because they're on disability, they've had their chronic disease for a long time, they're on 36 different medications, so they don't need more testing. ⁣ ⁣ 17:47⁣ This is the other side that drives me, and if I can say this on the show, you can say whatever you want Thank you, that shit. Crazy is when a health coach takes on a new client and then they just send them for these expensive tests that do not need to be done, whereas they already have the testing done. We've seen their lab markers, we've seen their hormone panels, we've seen everything. So my clients come in, we already know their full diagnosis. I work with their entire medical team to reverse their disease. So the premise of what I teach is only there's two things you have your chronic disease because of two factors okay Nutritional deficiency that resulted in toxicity or toxicity that resulted in nutritional deficiency. You reverse those two factors and the client heals. Now people will say what about the emotional side of it, which I know is really a lot of the good work that you do. ⁣ ⁣ 18:36⁣ Of course there's an emotional side of it, but here's the thing Most of my clients don't have the mental capacity anymore because their brain fog is so bad that you can coach the hell out of them and they cannot remember what you just said. They cannot implement the tools that you know. So the thing is is that we can reverse those two things nutritional deficiency and toxicity which really starts with the next meal that they eat, the next meal they can do it that day. Within a day they can start to think clearly, which means that they can address yes, intergenerational trauma is 100% true and affects probably everybody. Right? ⁣ ⁣ 19:11⁣ People have huge traumas, big T traumas, little t traumas, emotional concussions All humans have that. If you're a human on the planet, you have that. So what we do is we just go in with the simplest thing that every human does on any given day, and that's that they eat food. We just change the food that they're eating and all of a sudden they heal, even though they still have the big T traumas. They still haven't even dealt with that. But now that their brain is clear and their body's nervous system is not in angst because it's looking for nutrients or it's highly toxic, all of a sudden they're able to address the emotional side, or the spiritual side, or their mental health as well. But we start with the physical first and foremost. ⁣ ⁣ 19:50 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Yeah, that's why you're the type of doctor I love to work with, because there is such a need for the liaison between the client, the patient and the doctor, and I think that's where health coaches come in. But what? Where you really hit the nail on the head is that, first of all, stay within your scope of practice. Everyone, if you are a health coach that tunes into this podcast or you are in any way in the nutrition or health or medical or mental health field, please stay within your scope of practice. Build that tribe of people, like you mentioned, working with their doctors right, it's not just one, because we all have these areas that we focus on that we're there to support the client or the patient for the doctor, right? So the one thing I do want to share with those who are tuning in is that Dr Nicolette has just graciously offered her reverse your chronic disease. This is her program that she has. It's called Eat Real to Heal, course. I'm going to put that in the podcast notes. And also there is a program, a certification program, that you have, on nutritional detox. ⁣ ⁣ 20:53⁣ If we can just learn how to detox this body from the things that we you know we do it so much for our home. We do it for things outside of ourselves. If we're not starting right here, the temple before you, the one that you look in the mirror and see every day, what are we doing Right? So having something like this is really great. I'll put all of that in the podcast notes. You can look into Dr Nicolette's approaches everything on her website to offer more. What would the first step be for folks that are looking to take this to the next level? They are frustrated, they are getting brain fog, they are getting migraines, they are not sleeping well. You know we can really compound all of these doctor visits that they get and that in itself can just burn you out. So what's the first step? ⁣ ⁣ 21:35 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ The first step is when you go to the grocery store is you have to know the difference between processed food and refined food. So a lot of people don't like taking supplements. They're afraid of supplements, they think they're going to hurt them. But again, that's because they're not looking at the research that shows that supplements do very, very little harm, and in fact, you can count on my fingers how many people have been negatively impacted by supplements, whereas prescription medications everybody's willing to pop those pills and which you do need until you know another way. So the first thing you need to do is know the difference between refined and processed food. All the processed food that's out there usually comes in a box, a bag, a package of some sort. You need to not purchase that stuff anymore. It's full of preservatives high in sodium, it's full in food coloring, it's full of glyphosate, it's full of you know, pesticides, herbicides. This stuff is killing you slowly cell by cell, organ by organ. ⁣ ⁣ 22:29⁣ So that's the first thing you need to know. ⁣ ⁣ 22:30⁣ So when you go to the grocery store, it makes it really, really, really easy, because when you want to go buy the potatoes, sure the potatoes might come in a bag, but try and get the potatoes that are still dirty that come in the box. Buy the apples, not the fruit roll-ups or the applesauce in a jar. Buy the oranges, buy the chickpeas, not the chickpea potato chips that are 100% organic and still covered in tons of sodium and have to have supplements added to them to even be considered food. So this is the first thing that people need to do. You do not need to know how to cook, which is so beautiful. A lot of my clients who come to our retreats they've never chopped a potato or even seen broccoli. And it is okay, because in our Eat Real to Heal program, we teach you how to become some of the best chefs in the entire world, and you don't have to spend hours in the kitchen If somebody has to give you meal plan after meal plan, week after week. This is not intuitive eating, and what we do is teach you how to eat intuitively so you can eat with the seasons, you can buy what's affordable at the grocery store and then you know how to make it really really easily with spending the least amount of time in the kitchen. Really important to cook your food. ⁣ ⁣ 23:34⁣ So if there's a lot of raw foodists out there who are suffering from chronic diseases, one of the most important things you could do is actually use the heat from your stove as medicine, because by cooking the food, you're going to actually access about 2000 times more nutrients and make it really easy on your body to heal. ⁣ ⁣ 23:49⁣ So if you're doing any fad programs right now, if somebody is telling you to fast right now to try and reverse your chronic disease, I promise you. ⁣ ⁣ 23:57⁣ I've worked with thousands of people who fasted and they're still have their chronic diseases and that's because they're still not eating clean, real food. So eat real food. And with our coaching program I just have to say and it's not just an online course where you're going to be left to do it on your own Only 5% of people ever ever even open up, let alone complete, an online course that they purchased. So we offer a lifetime of group coaching every single week so we can handhold you through the process, so you can ask the questions and not have to spend 24 hours just trying to find the answer on Google or within the course. You can just simply show up, ask the questions and, as you age and as you go through menopause or giving birth or whatever it is that you're going to be doing over the course of your life, we're still here for you to answer those questions in our weekly live group coaching. ⁣ ⁣ 24:44 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ And that's the Real to Heal course. Correct, that's your group coaching course. ⁣ ⁣ 24:47 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ That's the Eat Real to Heal course and it's the community too, isn't it? ⁣ ⁣ 24:50 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ It's community. I mean, you're not alone in the battle. It's not one to one and there are benefits to one in one. But I think there's also real benefits to having community and knowing other people are going through something. It might not be your specific battle, but we're all in this together kind of thing, right, you learn from others. ⁣ ⁣ 25:04 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Yeah, and like, for example, andrew, you know he suffered from 30 migraines. A Everybody celebrated Miguel rheumatoid arthritis on disability couldn't play baseball anymore, which is his sport. Couldn't work anymore, living alone at home suffering from rheumatoid arthritis on all of these prescription meds that were just like slowly killing him. When the day his doctors took him off his last medication and declared him rheumatoid arthritis free, we all celebrated. His son died a month later. We were all there to support him and hold him through that time. So, yes, community is so, so, so important. ⁣ ⁣ 25:42 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ What do you think is the biggest fad out there right now that you just wish people would just stop? ⁣ ⁣ 25:51 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ I don't know. Keto for sure is one of the biggest ones. Keto is just another name for the Atkins diet, so everybody needs to know that that created so much heart disease in the 80s. ⁣ ⁣ 26:01 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I remember that. ⁣ ⁣ 26:02 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ So keto, I would say, is the one that is doing the most harm to humans, to their bodies and to the planet. It is horrific when it's, you know, in a time when we need to be consuming less meat because we were told 100 years ago how you, we need protein, we need fat, we need, you know, all of these animal-based products. And now, basically, governments around the world are rewriting all their nutrition programs to say, please stop eating so much meat. At the same time that all the keto advocates came out, and all because of what? They? Sure, you can lose weight, but you're going to clog your arteries doing it. So I would say, keto Fasting is amazing, for sure, there's no doubt about it, but people are using it like it's the only thing that they need to do, and it's so important that, sure, if you're going to eat within that eight hour period, that's fine, but if you have a chronic disease, you need nutrients all throughout the day, and that is critical, especially if you're trying to reverse something like a very aggressive chronic disease like cancer, where you have limited time on your hands. Fasting is not going to get you there. So that's a challenge for me and, as well, the kind of fasting people are doing. ⁣ ⁣ 27:10⁣ I'm a big proponent of intermittent fasting, where you still consume some calories, but not this. You know people who are running around, you know consuming their one meal a day, which you can do for a limited amount of time. But again, you have to look at the long-term studies as well. And as well you have to know that you're not a yeast molecule, you are not a yeast species alone. You are intricate human species. ⁣ ⁣ 27:38⁣ So what happens in the laboratory in a Petri dish, is not the same that happens to a human in real life. That's busy, running around taking care of kids, has stress, you know, because the economy is taking in environmental toxins. So it's really important that people are critical of the scientific research that gets published as well, and anybody can take a course in how to you know understand bias in a research and how to read the entire study. So that's going to be really important is we need to develop a scientifically literate society, and anybody can do that. My kids are teenagers and they know how to read through scientific journals now, and so this is something we need to be teaching in school. So that's also one of the big fads is that our education system is also needs an overhaul. ⁣ ⁣ 28:22 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Oh, that could be a whole nother conversation. I agree with that, not just. I mean in all areas. It's not your everyday home ec, home ec, like when we grew up. You know, and I'm so happy to see that some schools are taking that really seriously, both nutrition and mental health, mindfulness, you know, bringing those into the classroom. ⁣ ⁣ 28:41⁣ So hopefully we will see a change with more champions like yourself. I know we have a little time left and I just want to remind folks that there is a wonderful course, that that the doctor is putting out, and it's called eat real to heal, and also the detox coaching certification she has. I'm going to put all of that in the podcast notes you mentioned. You have a book that you're working on called rise up, and is there anything else that is coming up? Because there's? I have so much on you that I want to talk about in this time and I actually really I do have something I want to ask you about. Please tell me about the Green Mustache Organic Cafes. ⁣ ⁣ 29:16 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Yeah. So back in 2013, I had been working in government up until that point and our local HR manager in the government said could you please teach all our employees the Eat Realty Heal program? And so I did and all of a sudden all the employees started coming back to me saying oh, I don't have, you know, emphysema anymore. I can breathe again. I don't have depression. I just got pregnant after being told for 15 years I cannot get pregnant. Diabetes gone, heart disease. So all of these individuals kept coming back their energy through the roof, you know, brain fog gone. So I started taking on clients. Then because you, then because people are saying can you work with my mom? She's got this disease. Can you work with my cousin? So I started taking on clients and one of the number one things my clients said to me was after they got started with the program and they saw well, you need to be in your kitchen, right? Feminist movement was wonderful, but it really did take humans out of the kitchen and didn't replace them. So that's all fine to take women out of the homes, put them in the workforce, but they forgot to put a chef back in the kitchen for the household. And so tv dinners. You know macaroni and cheese. Those things came to be the convenient food, quick fix, yes. So my client started asking me can you make me the food? So I did. I did. ⁣ ⁣ 30:35⁣ I was like five months pregnant with my third child and I would start making juices and making the food and delivering it to clients and delivering it to restaurants so they can sell it to their patrons. They were asking for the food and I was like I cannot do this anymore. I need a restaurant where I can have a whole team who makes the food and I can be coaching clients. So I quit my job in government, opened up the first restaurant. That's when I was also applying for med school. I had just written my MCAT and all the doctors who were eating at our restaurant. ⁣ ⁣ 31:02⁣ They said Nikki, do not go to med school, just grow the green mustache. So the green mustache is 100% organic, plant-based, whole food, vegan, gluten-free cafe, which means we basically get the food from our farmers. They pick it at five in the morning. They bring it into our restaurant. We convert it into amazing meals lots of warm dishes, cool dishes. Any beverage you get in there is made from a whole food. We do not have refined sugar, we do not have any salt, we do not have any refined oils, everything is made from scratch and whole foods. So that's our restaurant. And, yeah, we had up to eight locations at one point, or seven locations, and we have 10 coming to New York at one point soon. So, yeah, that's an exciting company. ⁣ ⁣ 31:46 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ That's amazing. What a journey. Love it. We have a couple minutes left. I want to ask you if you are willing to do a quick rapid fire game that I do with my guests at the end of every podcast. I'm going to throw out a word and then what you do is come back with the first word that comes to mind. All right, yeah, refined Processed food Intuitive. ⁣ ⁣ 32:08 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Healer Clean vegetables, metabolism, mitochondria disease, reversed bipoc, complete, most amazing total health and wellness knowledge that needs to be resurrected so that we use that beautiful wisdom to heal the planet and heal all people and animals and rocks and trees and soil, etc. ⁣ ⁣ 32:37 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Can I just leave it there? We're going to make that one long word like supercalifragilisticexpialidocious. ⁣ ⁣ 32:43 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ That's exactly what it was intended to be. That's great, yes. ⁣ ⁣ 32:46 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ Awesome. One more word for you, just like it's the exclamation point heal. ⁣ ⁣ 32:52 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ Potential. Yeah, and we all have that right. ⁣ ⁣ 32:55 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ I think that's what you're teaching people. ⁣ ⁣ 32:56 - Dr. Nicolette Richer (Guest)⁣ We all do. ⁣ ⁣ 32:58⁣ We all have the ability to be free of chronic disease, and I'll just talk about the nutrition and detox coaching certification. ⁣ ⁣ 33:05⁣ So that is a six month training program for any individual, whether you have a science background or not, whether you're a physician, a stay at home dad, someone who's a physician, a stay-at-home dad, someone who's battling a chronic disease. That's a beautiful program where you're going to learn everything that I know that I've learned in the last 25 years about reversing chronic disease. I download all the science to you the art of reversing disease, how to coach clients and then we help you build a business in helping other people reverse their chronic diseases. So that's an exciting program. One of our former students he just got a $4 million investment for his business that he built. Another student has 169 acre beautiful piece of land in British Columbia where he now works with elders and indigenous communities working to help men and women in their 20s reverse their mood disorders and mental health disorders and chronic diseases. I love that program because it can take anybody, you do not need to be a physician, and it turns you into a healer overnight. ⁣ ⁣ 34:06 - Hilary Russo (Host)⁣ We're our own healers first. Yes, exactly, it's really the only ones that we can focus on is the inner healing, yeah, you know, and then we can support others on their journey as well. Exactly, thank you for being here and just sharing your gift. Thank you for having me on your show. If you connect with what Dr Roche shared during our conversation on HIListically Speaking, it may be time to connect with her personally so you can turn your health around and finally heal once and for all. Just check out the list of notes of Holistically Speaking and see how you can find out more about the Eat Real to Heal program that she has, her course and her detox coaching certification, as well as everything else that we shared during our conversation right here on this podcast episode, and listen. ⁣ ⁣ 34:50⁣ Dr Richer shared that healing is about building your army right, finding the right doctors, the right practitioners, the right coaches to support you on your healing journey. And you know what? Havening could be one of those things, and I could be that guy by your side. So if you want to see how havening can help you with your emotional well-being, how you could hug it out, how you could put the healing back in your hands and make that part of that army that you want to build to heal, to live a well-balanced life. Just check the list of notes I shared how you can get in touch with me for a complimentary session and learn more about how Havening can help you on your healing journey. ⁣ ⁣ 35:31⁣ And don't forget to share your thoughts and your responses about this podcast episode. Remember, every time you download, every time you subscribe, every time you leave your message and thoughtful message on the app where you listen, it lets others find this episode and this could help someone else too, so you can pay it forward. I really appreciate reading those responses and I love to read what you have to share Holistically. Speaking is edited by 2MarketMedia with music by Lipbone Redding and listened to and tuned into and supported by you. So thank you so much for being part of this journey. Week after week, you have everything you need to heal yourself. You might just need a guy by your side, and taking this first step just by tuning in here is all part of that process. So thank you for trusting me on your journey. I love you, I believe in you and I will see you next week.

As a young person, Louis Chang would make lists. Lists of long term, mid-term, and short-term goals as well as the daily tasks that he needed to do to achieve them. When he didn't finish his daily list, he would push it to another day. One major goal was medical school right after college. But after a less than stellar grade in his intro chem class, he felt his chances at med school were over. A momentary detour afforded him the opportunity to take a range of other classes from government to German, but he actually stuck with chemistry as a major, facing the challenge head on. The breadth of experiences he had during college and his true interest for organic chemistry, however, made him question his original idea of medical school so he didn't even take the MCATs before graduating. Instead, he worked in a chem lab at the NIH, almost pursued a PhD, and ultimately realized bench science was a little too isolating.Unsure what was next, he tried his hand at a law firm in DC but pretty soon he knew that wasn't the right fit either and finally applied to med school. The mix of tenacity and a willingness to try something new came in handy again when he actually did follow the to-do list toward his anticipated speciality, only to find out life had other plans. In this episode, find out from Louis how checking out the detours can help you leave no regrets …on today's Roads Taken with Leslie Jennings Rowley. About This Episode's GuestLouis Chang a neurosurgical spine specialist with expertise in minimally invasive surgery for spinal disorders. He also is an Assistant Professor of Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Medicine. For another story about navigating the path to the medical life that feels right (this time in urology!), listen to our episode with George Huang. Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.com Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings RowleyMusic: Brian BurrowsEmail the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com

When Sal Khan created Khan Academy, he was trying to scale up the successful experiences he'd had tutoring his cousins one-on-one in math. He saw how effective it could be for students to go at their own pace, ask questions and be questioned about their reasoning, and he wanted to make those benefits available to as many kids as possible. The organization eventually grew to include free online content on just about every subject taught in schools, and even test prep for the LSATs and MCATs. Now Khan Academy has been experimenting with the next level of scalable tutoring. In March, the organization launched Khanmigo, a generative artificial intelligence tool made specifically for learning. Educators have been embroiled in debate about the role A.I. could and should play in school, and how to ensure that it's effective for students and trustworthy for teachers. Khanmigo is aimed at quelling some of those fears and finding the opportunity in technology that's so interactive and easily accessible. In this talk at the Aspen Ideas Festival, Khan demonstrates Khanmigo and explains how it was designed. Mehran Sahami, the head of Stanford's computer science department, interviews Khan about the tool and takes questions from the audience.

Dr. Shoshana Kaufman was raised in Cambridge, Massachusetts where she attended a large urban public high school and graduated as valedictorian. She went on to earn her BA in psychobiology from Yale University. During her junior year, her father passed away in an accident, which led her to take a spiritual journey to Israel. Over the next few years, she became frum and started a family, raising five children in the process. Dr. Kaufman hosted up to 20 guests each week for Shabbos and Yontif meals in her home, and eventually decided to pursue her lifelong dream of becoming a physician.Upon completing her undergraduate degree, Dr. Kaufman took the MCATs and was encouraged by a friend to attend medical school. She will graduate in May and will begin a residency in Family Medicine at Metrohealth hospital in Cleveland, Ohio. The program is known for its intensity, as it serves primarily the poor and uninsured population in the area, including medical care for inmates in the local jails. Dr. Kaufman is enthusiastic about this opportunity and looks forward to serving her patients with compassion and care. _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Become a JOWMA Member! www.jowma.org  Follow us on Instagram! www.instagram.com/JOWMA_org  Follow us on Twitter! www.twitter.com/JOWMA_med  Follow us on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/JOWMAorg/ Stay up-to-date with JOWMA news! Sign up for the JOWMA newsletter! https://jowma.us6.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=9b4e9beb287874f9dc7f80289&id=ea3ef44644&mc_cid=dfb442d2a7&mc_eid=e9eee6e41e

When you're amid the chaos of life, it's easy to lose sight of the magic of being alive. Imagine if you could reclaim that sense of wonder, in just 21 days, and use it as an antidote to burnout and anxiety? That's what our esteemed guest, Dr. Michael Amster, co-author of The Power of AWE-Overcome Burnout and Anxiety, Ease Chronic Pain, and Find Clarity and Purpose in less than 1 Minute per day,  promises with the unique AWE Method. Instagram - @thepowerofawebookFacebook - The Power of AWETwitter - @ThePowerofAWETikTok - thepowerofaweGet ready to uncover the power of mindfulness in medicine and discover how a panic attack during Dr. Amster's MCATs sparked a journey into mindfulness that would culminate in the transformative AWE Method.You've probably heard of micro-dosing psychedelics, but have you heard of micro-dosing awe? Stick around as Dr. Amster takes us through the nuances of this fascinating practice. We uncover how just small doses of A.W.E. can create profound shifts in our mindset and delve into the science that backs this up. Especially riveting is our exploration of how the AWE Method can aid individuals with attention deficit disorder, helping them reclaim their focus and vitality. We'll also touch on the immediate rewards this practice brings and how the emotion of awe can heal and connect us.But, what exactly is AWE? As we navigate the AWE Method, we unpack this complex emotion into three accessible categories: Awe of the senses, Interconnected Awe, and Conceptual Awe. Through this practice, you learn to surrender your expectations and attachments and embrace the present moment. As we wrap up our conversation, we discuss the importance of community in your personal growth journey and provide resources to support you. So, are you ready to break free from stress and reignite your sense of wonder and appreciation for life? Tune in, and let's start this awe-inspiring journey together.Want to get in touch Dr. Amster? Contact him here: michael@thepowerofawe.comWelcome to the Art of Healing Podcast.Let's explore your mind, body and spirit through Integrative Medicine, Meditation and Reiki.Don't miss the latest episodes. Sign up to get the weekly newsletters and get the Art of Healing Podcast in your inbox:Healing Arts Weekly Newsletter Thank you for listening to the Art of Healing Podcast.Ready to start your journey into Meditation, Mindfulness or Reiki?Learn about the Programs at Healing Arts here.Want to make sure you catch every episode of the Art of Healing? Click here for my weekly newsletter.Never miss an episode of Art of Healing Podcast...the podcast devoted to helping you heal your mind, body and spirit.Sign up for my weekly newsletter, and never miss an episode along with other great content:Art of Healing PodcastStay in touch socially here:Healing Arts Link in BioLearn more about me and my offerings here:Healing Arts Health and Wellness

Noel gets the Seattle job, and he offers Felicity a job for the summer. Richard is on the hunt to prevent senior pranks and inadvertently gives Noel the bright idea to toilet paper the library with Felicity. All is fun and games until Richard sees Noel on the security footage. Avery tells Noel that something happened with Ben in Southampton, fueling Noel's frustration. Avery overdoses on pills to get Ben's attention. Ben is called to her bedside, and she does what she can to try to suck him back him. When Ben finds the break-up kit, it all results in a huge blow-up between Ben, Felicity, and Noel where Ben's inability to say no to Avery and Noel's love for Felicity are called out. The result of the fight? Ben finally says good-bye to Avery, and Noel kisses Felicity and tells her he has feelings for her. Elena's apartment is too noisy for studying for the MCATs, so DeForrest offers to share his hotel room. When Elena avoids a kiss from him, he flees. But then Elena pushes herself to kiss DeForrest, and he sends her away. Sean's going to have a Bar Mitzvah, and he invites his rabbi over for dinner. When Meghan meets Rabbi Levin – a beautiful woman who seems to have a lot in common with Sean – she gets jealous. Sean asks Meghan to see a couples counselor with him.   Sign up for our newsletter for updates: https://mailchi.mp/e73780cdd4ef/felicity-podcast Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/felicitypodcast/ Find everywhere you can listen: https://linktr.ee/themelissafish Share your feedback or Felicity fan art: themelissafish@gmail.com

This episode features a conversation between Joe Dulac from the class of 1990 and Ely Bueno from the class of 1998. Joe and Ely first met because they went through the New Hampshire Dartmouth Family Medicine Residency Program at Concord Hospital. They have stayed in touch since then, but reconnected in a meaningful way during the COVID-19 pandemic. Their conversation showcases how the mission of Holy Cross and the lessons learned during their time on the Hill helped to support them in living a life of meaning and purpose in service of others. Interview originally recorded in May 2022. --- Joe: We were going to just stay home during a pandemic or we were going to step up and figure out... Honestly, the choice was close down the practice and maybe we'll open up in a few months or we're going to figure out a way to reopen and serve our patients. Maura Sweeney: Welcome to Mission-Driven, where we speak with alumni who are leveraging their Holy Cross education to make a meaningful difference in the world around them. I'm your host, Maura Sweeney, from the class of 2007, Director of Alumni Career Development at Holy Cross. I'm delighted to welcome you to today's show. This episode features a conversation between Joe Dulac from the class of 1990 and Ely Bueno from the class of 1998. Joe and Ely first met because they went through the New Hampshire Dartmouth Family Medicine Residency Program at Concord Hospital. They have stayed in touch since then, but reconnected in a meaningful way during the COVID-19 pandemic. This conversation offered Ely a chance to ask Joe questions to learn more about his professional journey, which included the opportunity to open and build a practice from scratch. It also gave them a chance to reflect on their past, discover shared connections and process everything they went through over the past few years. In particular, they speak about the challenges that doctors faced during the pandemic and how they lifted each other up during difficult times. Their conversation showcases how the mission of Holy Cross and the lessons learned during their time on the Hill helped to support them in living a life of meaning and purpose in service of others. Ely: Joe, thanks so much for agreeing to do this interview in this format. It comes from a place of deep gratitude for your professional contact and your friendship over the several years that we've known each other. And so now we get to dive in. Joe: Great. This is a great opportunity to meet with you and try something new, right? Ely: Yeah, definitely. And now, did you ever go on the spiritual exercises in Holy Cross, Joe? Joe: Right. Did a lot of things at Holy Cross, and so did do the one-week silent retreat in Narragansett, Rhode Island, which... it was very powerful, of course. Ely: Yeah. Joe: Yeah. Quite an experience. Ely: Yeah. So I also attended, and I think as we start invoking that Ignatian spirit of really the deep sense of giving of ourselves for others in contemplation, in meeting God through story, this is really a great opportunity that Maura has for us as alumni to connect and tell our story. So I'm really eager to hear about yours. And so diving right in, tell me about how you got to where you are now from Holy Cross and beyond. Joe: Okay, sure. Certainly, I always talk about paths being not really straight. You think you're going to go on a straight path and then path kind of zigzags. So to get to Holy Cross, so I was Chelmsford High School and was very interested in sciences and was accepted into Holy Cross for chemistry pre-med. And obviously that was challenging and stimulating. And so I went through the process there with all the pre-meds and the basic science and chemistry. And there was a time where there was a choice between being a chem major, going to chem grad school or going to med school. And so there was a time where there was some uncertainty, the path that I might take. So a lot of the professors were very supportive, really of either path. But because I was a chem major, I think they were very supportive of the chemistry track. So I did do research in the summer with Holy Cross and with Dr. Ditzer, and enjoyed that, but still found myself interested in the pre-med track. So I applied and went through all the steps with the MCATs. Did have some struggles in my junior year, so I did have a little bit more of a crooked path after that. So I did a year of grad school. I was going to go into Georgetown, but found that Boston University had a program on medical sciences, and I got accepted from that program and into the med school there. And so my first year was doing a thesis, but I was able to take several medical school courses including gross anatomy and neurosciences and physiology. So that really helped solidify what I wanted to do in the path. And though I had a little bit of struggles in my junior year in grad school and in med school. Well, the first year of grad school, my professors had remarked that I had caught fire academically and kind of on a tear. So the path was kind of a little bit crooked there. But once I settled in at Boston University after Holy Cross, the medical sciences just kind of took over and it's kind of a labor of love, learning and staying up late and being on call and all that. So I was at the Boston Medical Center there in Boston University, which was really interesting time because they were building the new hospital. So halfway through training, they completed the hospital there and then they crushed it down to smithereens. But in one day we basically were in the old hospital and the next day we were in the new hospital. And so that was really great training through the basic sciences at Holy Cross and experiences there. And then I was looking into residencies and as would have it, I had applied to a lot in the New England area for residencies for family medicine. And I had gotten a scholarship in Lowell with the Mass Medical Society and John Janice and his family, one of the doctors in the family was starting the residency in Concord and Lebanon, New Hampshire. And he said, "Hey, I'm going to give you the scholarship, but maybe you should consider our program." And so I applied and matched. And so I ended up in Concord and mostly Concord and Lebanon for family medicine. And it was the very first year of the program, which probably better I didn't really know what I was getting myself into. The program was really good, but as a first kind of run through, what I didn't understand at the time was that though you're a resident, you're basically a faculty member because you're developing all the programs everywhere. Every program, every rotation was the first time they ever had a resident or any kind of training. So that was a different kind of experience as well. Ely: I have some questions about your residency challenges. How much did you do in the bigger hospital in Lebanon? Joe: I did several rotations up in Lebanon, which were great. So I did a lot of pediatrics there with Chad. So that was our big pediatric kind of connection. And then I actually did obstetrics in Augusta, Maine because at the time... I'm not sure if you're trained for OB as well, but they wanted us to be fully trained for OB, which I was. So I did an OB rotation. I made that happen in Augusta, Maine, which was really interesting, delivering babies out. It's the state capital, but it's still kind of rural actually. And then I did also make a OB rotation in Beverly, Mass. And that was very developmental because no one had ever been there before. And then I did sports medicine, I made some sports medicine rotations in Portland, Maine. So those were interesting. And then I did put together a holistic herbal experience with Ascutney mountain and the herbalist. So that was up near the Lebanon area, but for pediatrics, I think I did a few months at Chad. So it was great being up there at that hospital too. Yeah, the Dartmouth Hitchcock Hospital is a really fantastic place to train. Ely: Yeah. I am very proud of our family medicine residency program. By the time that I had arrived in Concord, it was exclusively at Concord Hospital, so all rotations were there. And I did high risk OB rotation in Nashua, New Hampshire, and some of the main Dartmouth residents came to our program to do some rotations or came down to Nashua to do some rotations. So that kind of relationship with other hospitals in the area were nice to be able to have established from relationships that you guys forged. So that has always been a nice part about learning in community. Joe: Well, I know we had touched base about that, and I remember having mixed feelings about the training and starting a new program. I remember you mentioning to me one time how you felt that the program was really excellent and that you had gotten really well-trained there. I know the training was definitely good in terms of experiences because even though it's not necessarily big city, Concord is the state capital again of New Hampshire, but still a lot of it's rural, a lot of rural type of problems. At the time, at least, I don't know how it was by the time you got there, but still a lot of patients had hadn't had access to doctors in a long time. So most of the illness that we would see as residents were actually advanced and surprising, patients with really far along illnesses that you're kind of surprised that they could just still be walking around with that situation. Yeah. Ely: Yes, definitely. That kind of establishing disease management and identifying severe disease was really was an important part of training. And I think, yes, Concord is a catchment area for that area. And Concord Hospital's Family Health Center is a federally qualified health center, much like where you work in East Boston currently, but there were a lot of social workers that helped. So there was definitely this sense of team effort to help engage people's health and work together. So that was a really good part. That's what I really liked about the training is that I learned from our pharmacists, from our social workers and other community health workers. So that was a good part of the training there. And it sounds like that helped you establish your career with in Dracut because you started your clinic there. Joe: I think all experiences eventually helped you later on for sure. So you're right, in Concord starting the residency program, I guess to some degree I wasn't scared to start a practice. So I guess there's that component of it. But though after I finished with the residency program that you also attended, then I returned back to my hometown in Chelmsford. And so when I finished, I went and had physical make sure that I also checked on my health. And so at that time I had gotten a physical in Chelmsford, the doctor that there was working with some other doctors and offered me a job in their clinic. And I said, "well, I'm just here for a physical, I don't think I want-" Ely: You got a job. Joe: Yeah, "don't think I want a whole job, but my physical must have been good." Ely: God bless family medicine, we do it all. Joe: So I did work a couple years in my hometown in Chelmsford in Drum Hill with Dr. Gamasis. And then actually I went back into New Hampshire. So when Michelle and I were married, we moved up to New Hampshire and then I worked with Wentworth-Douglass Hospital doing family medicine. And at that time, certainly most of the career up until that point and even after was fall spectrum. So when I worked in Chelmsford, it was inpatient medicine, outpatient medicine, ICU care, the rehabs, home care. So it was a lot. And so we would admit patients to the hospital, we would follow them and also do ICU care, and that was very satisfying. But it's a different world than it certainly is now in terms of, I suppose, expectations, acuity, the length of stay. I don't think it's even possible to do both now, but we did. And so I did that up in Concord and then actually we put a hospitalist program in there, which was actually very controversial, and then we ended up just transitioning to outpatient medicine. So then in 2007, I actually came back down to the area of Merrimack Valley with Saints Medical Center. They were near and dear to my heart because I had still been on staff there and they were looking to open practices and they said, "hey, can you open one of practice for us in Dracut?" And I said, that sounds really exciting because for me as a physician, I've always enjoyed obviously seeing patients and being in different environments. But one thing that you may never have an opportunity to do is to start a practice. And as a physician, starting a practice means you can really put your own personality into it and you're not inheriting necessarily a practice that's already there, or maybe another doctor's patient with maybe their style of medicine. So that was really exciting for me to be able to do that. And so the cool part about that situation was they also wanted me to be involved in the design build of the practice, which was super exciting. I didn't know anything about architect work or designing anything. So that was really exciting. And then we opened the practice and we had no patients. Day one, no patients, which is different than a lot of scenarios. So that was exciting and scary at the same time. Ely: Well, the natural question now I have is how did you recruit patients? Joe: Gosh, that was exciting time too. So a couple things, you just never know how life's going to go. So while we were doing this project, it was supposed to start in 2007, but it was delayed. So I had left the job in New Hampshire, came down, and they said, okay, unfortunately it's going to take longer than we expected. We're going to put you at the walk-in clinic for the year that we're going to get all this project going. And that was in Lowell. So I had never done urgent care medicine, so it's a little different and exciting and somewhat scary too, actually at times. And so I did that for a year. And there was a doctor that Dr. Bousquet who was a really wonderful doctor and a friend, so he must have known his life path what it was going to be. So he basically introduced me to so many people, so many patients. Even though he was kind of retired, they would still come to the clinic and he'd do kind of a primary care situation for them and then he would introduce them to me. And so I wasn't even really kind of aware of that was what was happening. And then so when I opened the practice, I did have actually a core of patients, which was really nice. And then we just did a lot of different things. So we went to every possible event that they had. So we went to job fairs where they wanted medical people. We went to the old home day in Dracut. I went to the Dracut baseball night, the comedy night, the fundraisers, whatever just to meet people. So that summer was really interesting. So we had no patients and then we slowly developed patients. I just basically stayed on a call every day, which wasn't as bad as it sounds, but when you have a startup practice, it's kind of neat to be on call all the time because then you're connecting with the patients very, very well. And then we had excellent people. So basically, there were three of us. So the three of us basically started the start of the office. So it was kind of exciting times. Yeah. Ely: That is quite a journey and a lot of legwork goes into building a practice in terms of just building the relationships you had with Dr. Bousquet. And so I am curious though, just as much as you were really involved in the community, if you can talk about it, how did it impact the way you and your family were developing? How did that balance work with being on call all the time and having all these obligations with work? How did you- Joe: It worked out in some ways. So though at the time, and actually still now, so we live way up in almost near Portsmouth, New Hampshire, but the practice was in Dracut, but again, this is kind of how crooked lines work and nothing's ever kind of straightforward. So we're both from that area. So she's from Lowell, I'm from Chelmsford, so we have family there. So though it was challenging in some ways to be here and there, it also was doable because for instance, her mom lives there. Her mom lives right down the street. And then my parents live in Chelmsford, and then my brothers live in Nashua and Chelmsford. So I think if it was a different location, it probably wouldn't have worked, but I could check on her mom, I can check on my parents, I can see my brothers. So that was nice. And then we could stay there. We could stay there on the night or the weekend. So that worked out really well. And then starting a practice also meant that I had flexibility because I could tell patients to come at seven o'clock in the morning, they could call me. So there was a lot of flexibility and that allowed me to have time to coach baseball and soccer and flag football. And so I guess it just kind of worked out because I guess you wanted it to, if you wanted it to work out. There were times it was hard. So I coached a lot of baseball, and so I even started sometimes at 6:00 AM and then would try to complete by early afternoon and then kind of rush home and then run some baseball drills, run the practices or the games or whatever. So I guess it just eventually worked out. But I think having some creativity in it and then having it be my own entity was really exciting. You have a lot of ownership in it and you can make things work, I suppose. And I really enjoyed having a personal connection to the patients that allows them to tell me that the schedule doesn't work for them, for instance, and they need something, and I can say, well, why don't you just come in at 7:30 and I'll do your physical then, things like that, which is to me is very, very satisfying 'cause the patient obviously needs certain things and I can know what those are. And then having some flexibility allows you to meet that need and you feel like, okay, that's why I'm actually here. Ely: Yes. Joe: Yeah. Ely: Well... you did... you say... it's amaze... I love hearing about this story and it's just different than mine. I also had a zigzaggy kind of path to medicine. But what I really am getting the sense of, Joe, is that you worked really hard to create your network, your family, really, work family, and then you really worked hard with your wife to build a network and a team that supported both of you, all of you. And if we don't really have a supporting team around us, it just can't work. And that's really a wonderful thing that you had and have currently. But I can imagine the shift in the culture of medicine and the way it's been managed provides some challenges now too. How have the rules changed around you in terms of management? Joe: Those are really great questions. And I guess it's easy to just gloss over the past and think, okay, gosh, everything was just really rosy, but it's not, it's not always rosy. So currently I think I'm way more satisfied than probably I have been in maybe in a long time. And I think some of that is because, like you were mentioning about working with people or networking, I think a lot of it is because the other doctor in the practice and also another doctor that also is there, we worked together to create the systems. Again, not to maybe speak poorly about systems, but we were in systems thinking, this is not really kind of what we're thinking or this is not actually functioning how we want it to function. Oh, okay, so you're feeling the same way as me and you're feeling the same way. And then, okay, let's express that. So we actually met a lot. It's changed even over the COVID, but we met a lot as doctors to talk about what we thought about medicine, what we thought about and how things should go, and then why it was or wasn't at that point. So I think at some point we just became leaders of our own own destiny. Now that doesn't always come easy. Sometimes you got to fight for that and sometimes it just works out. Certainly to your point, and I've kind of learned this kind of the hard way over time, I think joining forces with people is way more effective than just being the only person that maybe is complaining about something or that wants something to change. If you have two or three people that you work well with and you talk about things and you actually make sense, it's going to go good places, right? Ely: Agreed. Joe: Hopefully. Ely: Yes. Joe: Hopefully. Ely: Well, collaboration always brings some good fruits. And I would have to say, I really felt like over COVID, as we progress in this age of COVID, I'll just say it's really the pandemic continues, let's remind each other, and- Joe: It is continuing. Ely: ... it continues. But I feel like throughout COVID, I would often send a little message out to you in a way that helped me process what was going on. And the confusion about how we were operating or guidelines, miscommunications or communications about certain guidelines that were changing daily and they still really are, but I felt like having someone to vent about stuff that was changing was very helpful. So I again want to thank you for that. And I think that it helped me just advocate for what was going around in my situation. So thank you for that. Joe: Yeah, I'm glad that we connected because though there were three doctors in my practice, there was a time where we were either not working in the office at all or we were all remote and not really even seeing each other. And then at some point, yeah, there was an isolation, even though the physicians and medical staff. And so I think though it feels like I helped you, you secretly helped me kind of realize that I was doing some of the right things or thinking of the right things or I wasn't kind of off base thinking about the same things that you were thinking. And I may have told you yeah, you're right. But I might have also been secretly questioning it too. So I think, like you said, kind of connecting is definitely powerful. And I can't even take credit for all of that because though I was doing the family medicine in Dracut, I was also blessed to be a part of the East Boston clinic and some of the doctors there are also very amazing and they do different things. And so one of the doctors I worked with there, he gets deployed for disasters. And so he had gotten actually deployed from our pediatric kind of practice there to the very, very first COVID response unit in California when they had the cruise ship and they had 300 patients and they had no place to put these people. Kim and his crew went out there. So he had already been in the thick of it. I think that was December maybe 2019 or something. So he had already been in the thick of it and he came back and then I just remember learning so much from him and then thinking, okay, you have to be organized, you do have to have protocols, and you do need certain things. You need PPE, you need testing, and whether you can get those things or not, or if people are going to support you, you actually do need it. So advocating for those things, super important. And maybe you couldn't get everything you wanted. We couldn't get any N95 masks, but the other doctor that was in the practice had had the forethought of buying them. So we actually bought our own. And they weren't that great really, but they worked. And then, strangely enough, we were able to repair them. So I actually did a lot of glue gunning for several months of the masks because I didn't have another one. So it's kind of exciting in some ways to make things work, right? Ely: Yes. And being in medicine during the pandemic really made us either just dig our heels in and say, we're staying, we've got this, we have to do this, we have to do something. Whether it is in actually facing COVID patients in the hospital or out in the field, so to speak, in outpatient field of we have to deliver care, whether that it was telemedicine or in office eventually, and how we're we going to be able to do that and getting those PPE, for those listening, personal protective equipment. I think now we probably know that that's probably colloquial more so than just a medical term, but yeah, we have come a long way. And then to really sit and talk with you now about, man, that was some tough times over the last couple of years specifically. I'm listening to your story. I'm really curious and very enthralled with your development of your practice, but also just knowing what we have shared together in our health system with what we went through in the last two years. That was a lot. And it's still really tough. So I'm glad we're, we're still going, but it is difficult. Are you feeling the same way about that? Joe: Well, it's very much a people profession and it's a caring profession, and I think we get energy off of each other. So your excitement, enthusiasm, and even your positive feedback helps to really motivate me and other people. And so I think that was one of the really exciting things about the pandemic. Sure, I could probably look back and have a lot of mixed feelings about different things, but I think one of the things that was really amazing was the administration kind of apparatus really froze up. And the clinical people, we basically had to rise up because it was either we were going to just stay home during the pandemic or we were going to step up and figure out... Honestly, the choice was close down the practice and maybe we'll open up in a few months or we're going to figure out a way to reopen and serve our patients. So that was the choice, and that was really the clinical leadership. A hundred percent. We even developed how we were going to screen patients and then for the limited testing initially what we were going to do. And then as testing became more available, what were we going to do, what questions we were going to ask patients, when were they going to be permitted in the office? All that stuff we had to figure out and then we just did it. So thought that was really exciting actually. So I guess to answer your question, compared to sometimes when you feel really just maybe you're not making a difference, this period has kind of felt like more like we're making a difference. So things do kind of get tiring, the electronic medical systems can get tiring and charting, and there are some mundane things. And I think also the other thing is the more that we're in charge, I think of the healthcare system, and even simple things like how we're going to do our schedule, it's really empowering. I guess that's some of the things that came out of it. Ely: Thank you for that perspective, because that learning by doing is precisely why I chose family medicine. And really the impetus for me to be just actively doing in medicine was why I then pursued a career in medicine. And so just to be reminded of that is exactly what we are doing. This is our calling to do it, and we are here to serve. And as difficult as it is, that's what we do and we do it the best. And yes, leadership comes in all form, including administration, and there's certainly guidelines and rules that we may admonish at times, but really it's an honor and our privilege to be able to help others and live out the dream we all had of becoming physicians and being able to realize that in the work that we do. So thanks. Joe: You're welcome. And it did really feel like patients really did need us. So for two years, there were times where we're running all kinds of tests for coronavirus, then helping patients with, are you going to be able to work? And for how long? And who's going to write those letters? And then when can you go back and well, maybe you're not actually doing all that well, so maybe we should run x-rays and labs and send you to the hospital and now working with some of these other therapeutics and whatnot. So yeah, I think there's a lot of components where the family medicine, you can really just jump right in. Yeah, you're right. And then you're also right too, where it's not all rosy. There are a lot of things that can get in between those things that we really want to do for patients and how we want to feel about our calling. Ely: It's not all rosy, but then again, really, I welcome the challenge. If I had to go back into where our education had formed us at Holy Cross, the challenges that we had in terms of asking the question, and this is really for me, formed from this first year program that is now the Montserrat program that I was part of. But this question of how then shall we live in this world of COVID there are constant changes and rules, how then shall we live and then dot, dot, dot as physicians, as humans, as a mother, as a father. So I think it really is a unique way of looking at where we are through the lens of having a Holy Cross Jesuit education. Joe: Absolutely. There are so many experiences during the time there that totally prepares you for a career in medicine, in family medicine, or even just caring for people. There's so many things. The list is just endless of events and experiences for sure. I had what they call a SPUD... suburban, I'm not sure of all the acronyms there. Ely: Program for Urban Development something. Joe: We had so much fun, we did so many different things. And I just remember taking him to the... I think it's the pub there where there's the bowling alley. We had a bowling alley on campus, we used to do that a lot and other fun events. But yeah, there was just a lot of good experiences. One of the things that I think was also really excellent too was I went for one of the breaks at the Appalachia Mountain. I don't know if that was going on when you were there. So I went to Kentucky Mountain Housing and that was I think about 10 days. And so that was really amazing experience. So not only were we serving others, and then we were building some houses up in Appalachia in Kentucky, but we had to work together as a team. So that was probably one of the early experiences of really team building. So we had several bands, I don't even know how many were in each band, 10 or 12 people in the band. And basically we were responsible for the budget and getting all our stuff and then getting there. So we had to meet in Virginia or something and then continue on. So I just remember we had to decide who was going to drive and when and what shifts, and then how we were going to do our meals and who was going to cook it and when and who was going to clean up, and then who was going to do what kind of jobs on the site there. So that was really amazing experience. And then of course, interacting with people in Appalachia and helping them build houses and learning about their life experiences was, I think that's obviously a really amazing experience. And it's very, very similar to being a physician, except not building a house typically, but you're interacting with people and connecting with them where they are. So that was definitely a formative experience and I'm really grateful I was able to do that. Ely: What I want to ask you, because now you're in a position of having one of your kids going to start at Holy Cross, do you have any certain expectations for her experience at Holy Cross? Joe: Yeah, no, thank you for mentioning that. Yeah, Olivia will be a freshman this fall, and she plans on the bio pre-med track or health professions track. And so yeah, super excited for her. I'm overjoyed. For both of my children, I often brought them to different Holy Cross events. And for Olivia, we did the move in together. Well, not her move in, but we helped the students move in about five years ago. And then we've done several Holy Cross cares days, and then we've gone to reunions or football games or things. So I was always hopeful that she would have an interest and since I've been there a million years ago, the campus, it changed so much. They've just added so many wonderful things and buildings and upgraded just everything. So I was more than excited for her to consider it. And I'm really hopeful that she has a lot of the experiences that I had or even more. And so what I had wanted for her is not just go someplace and just do science, just be in the lab, just doing science by yourself, with your head down. I really wanted for her to have a real well-rounded experience and really develop other parts of her person as well. And I really wanted that for her. So I'm really hopeful that she sees it that way too. And she's very interested in the science building there. So we had to go look during all of her tours, specifically at the science buildings, even though lots of campuses in the United States are nice, the science building may not be nice. It may not be where they focus. So we went there and the newly kind of renamed Fauci Center definitely looked like it had gotten a lot of attention and would be a good place to learn. So yeah, I'm just really hopeful that she may find experiences like I did, or even different ones, even different ones. I was on the campus ministry there. And I found that to be really amazing, the 10 o'clock masses. And I walked on the football team for two years and was in a great dorm and had a lot of great experiences and a lot of great memories and friendships. Yeah, so I was hoping that she would get a lot of those experiences. So can I ask you about your recent career situation? Ely: Oh, sure. Joe: Because you're making some changes. Ely: Yes. So I would have to say the challenges of COVID and the challenges of parenthood, specifically motherhood, have put my focus on how to best be at home and do the work that I do. So being in the office, in the clinic, taking care of patients is truly rewarding. And I wouldn't change the opportunity for the world. But moving forward, I think I needed to step out of that in clinic role. And so now I've chosen a path to do telemedicine, and I'm very excited about developing my role as a communicator on the phone or by video and listening to patients. And that role won't change, but how I listen and how I engage with patients will be a little bit different and I'll have to hone in those skills. So I am looking forward to it. And I have a few weeks off before then. Joe: Well, I'm excited for you. So we've almost followed the same pathway, but now you're going a different pathway, because we both went to Holy Cross and we both went to New Hampshire Dartmouth residency and we both were urgent care in Merrimack Valley and Primary Care. But now you're going a different paths. Ely: Yes. Well, the zigzags of our paths have crossed many times in one way or another, and I'm sure they'll continue to cross, and hopefully that will continue. Joe: No, I think it's good 'cause I think our energy kind of feeds off of each other and our experiences or even just sometimes questioning kind of feeds off each other. And I think it's really positive. And I find that as I'm getting older and I actually think about what makes me tick, I think interacting with doctors and nurse practitioners and physicians assistants in the course of doing your work is extremely rewarding. And I really enjoy it. And so I do a lot of work in East Boston and a lot of times in the emergency room, and there's several doctors or some doctors and nurse practitioners, and I never really can really put my finger on why I enjoyed it, but I just really enjoyed being together with four or five doctors. It's amazing. You can talk to someone who has major differences in their life experiences or the clinical experiences, and you can just talk to them like right there, hey, I'm doing this for this patient, and what do you do? It's just amazing wealth. It really can help to develop just your satisfaction. But I do want to mention something, and I don't really know how to say it, but I think you brought up and there are, I think, unique challenges to being a male physician and a female physician. And I think with COVID and the additional responsibilities, it's really complicated. You could speak to this more than I, but I think as a female physician or a female nurse, you're also expected to take care of your kids when they're sick, which they're sick a lot with the COVID or not COVID or finding out if they have COVID. So what I've also observed is that the intensity of the responsibility is huge for women in clinical positions, and COVID just has made that so much more apparent and intense. So I understand maybe why you're making some changes there, but obviously you know more than I how that all works. Ely: I really appreciate the acknowledgement of the role of mothers in medicine and fathers have equally distinct roles in managing family life. So for some reason, for me, it has fallen on me to really be at home when they are sick or in quarantine. And it's something that I don't obviously mind doing, I love my children, and I just want to be able to show up for my family, myself and my patients equally as strong. And in my most recent role, I wasn't always feeling like I could do that and for one way or another. And it's not the fault of the system or the role itself, it just happened to play out that way. However, I did find some agency in looking at other options and voila, COVID opened a lot of doors to telemedicine and other opportunities for physicians to practice. So that was a fringe benefit, if I could even say a benefit of the pandemic was some doors that opened. So I felt enough agency to be able to walk through that door, and that was not because I was suffering, that was because there was a lot of strength that came from learning from my colleagues in my previous role. So I have a lot of good feelings for where I came from and a lot of excitement for where I'm going. Joe: I know, I think it's really wonderful and fantastic, and I'm glad that you acknowledged the unique pressures or stresses that you've felt 'cause I don't think they're unique to yourself. And so I'm glad that you've articulated that. And what I always think is by the time you've become a doctor and you've done all the amazing steps to get there, and then you're connecting with patients, to feel like for some reason you can't do that work because of whatever, because of schedule, because you want to also be there for your family or whatever systems things, and to think that maybe someone might actually leave the career altogether, it's really upsetting to me because it's usually the people that are the most caring and connected because you've given out so much of your energy and you just realize it's not working out. So kudos to you to try to figure out a way to keep all that amazing energy, like caring for patients. So I'm glad that you've figured out a path. Ely: Thank you. Joe: Yeah, it's exciting. Yeah, because I know you'll be back doing family medicine at some point in person, that's why I'm saying that. Ely: Yes. Well, my roots in community are very strong. And so to really hear your story of community building, it restores my faith in the progress of medicine and in the intensity of how we serve each other. So again, I cannot say thank you enough. Joe: Well, thank you to you too. Ely: The way I would love to close the interview is to say one thing that you are really excited about the future of family medicine. And I think I'm excited about the continued relationship building and the connection with colleagues as well as patients because if we are stronger as providers, as physicians, then I think that really only encourages our patients to become stronger and to have their agency to take care of their health. And really healthy communities, healthy families are what the drive to family medicine is. And so I'm really excited about that, that relationship is going to continue and get even stronger. How about you? Joe: I think you're right about that. And in the perspective of my path is that training in Boston in the '90s, family medicine was not at all desirable. And so you had to actually leave the city at the time to even seek out the specialty. But in time now, family medicine's very important everywhere, including in the city, including at the academic centers. And with my family medicine background, working in the ER, I do work with the pediatric group in Boston. I do family medicine in the clinic. I've also done urgent care and I feel equally at home in all those settings. And that's really nice. And I think connecting with the patients, I do feel like they actually do need us to know about a lot of things there. There's so much more complexity to health, and it's good to be able to do that over a wide range of health. And the other thing I like too about family medicine is we don't always have to make health issues always necessarily bad. We can talk about them as things that are opportunities to improve and maybe even opportunities to work on holistic health maintenance. So yeah, I think there is a lot of positivity to the future. We're going through an electronic medical record transition to Epic, which was really challenging. But I've used Epic in other locations and I'm finding that it, to some level is restoring my joy of medicine because the system is very good and allows me to actually complete functions rather than having the functions kind of dictate my whole day. So I think that hopefully technology will also help, at least the technology part that should be in place to help us. So I'm optimistic hopefully. Ely: That's a wonderful place to be optimistic and also carries us into the future. Maura Sweeney: That's our show. I hope you enjoyed hearing about just one of the many ways that Holy Cross alumni have been inspired by the mission to be people for and with others. A special thanks to today's guests and everyone at Holy Cross who has contributed to making this podcast a reality. If you or someone would like to be featured on this podcast, then please send us an email at alumnicareers.holycross.edu. If you like what you hear, then please leave us a review. This podcast is brought to you by the Office of Alumni Relations at the College of the Holy Cross. You can subscribe for future episodes wherever you find your podcast. I'm your host, Maura Sweeney, and this is Mission-Driven. In the words of Saint Ignatius of Loyola, "Now go forth and set the world on fire." Theme music composed by Scott Holmes, courtesy of freemusicarchive.org.

This episode features Heidi Chumley, MD, MBA, Dean of Ross University School of Medicine and Head of Adtalem Global Education's Academic Council. Here, she discusses different ways to combat the underrepresentation of minorities preparing for MCATS & in medical school.

Dr. Kevin Mailo welcomes Dr. Nour Khatib, emergency physician and speaker, to the show to talk about her journey through finance and medicine. Dr. Khatib explains why he introduces her as a “Med School dropout” and shares how both her career backgrounds are valuable to her.Dr. Nour Khatib divulges that in her first year of medicine at McGill she experienced burnout and spoke to administration who gave her a year off. During that year she enrolled in business school and ended up with a financial job at Pratt and Whitney. However, she returned to McGill several years later despite enjoying her financial job and she explains why to Dr. Mailo.In this episode, Dr. Kevin Mailo and guest Dr. Nour Khatib discuss why learning something other than medicine can be a very powerful personal growth experience, the importance of the advice to “pay yourself first”, and why self care and personal wellness are such key components of a successful career as a physician, alongside financial literacy. Dr Khatib's story and advice very much align with Dr. Wing Lam's CBE (Continuous Business Education) theory and this episode helps to explain why it's important practice.About Dr. Nour Khatib:Dr. Nour Khatib MD CM, MBA is an enthusiastic and dynamic emergency physician and financial professional with keen interest in Quality Improvement, Patient Education and Global Health. She completed her family medicine training at Sunnybrook Health Sciences Center and did further training in emergency medicine at the University of Ottawa (CCFP-EM). With extensive experience and a professional record as a financial and business analyst, Dr. Khatib has excelled in both international and local firms with determination, hard work, and resourcefulness. Utilizing a broad acumen in healthcare, finance and business practices, she aims to solve issues regarding the quality of healthcare and the patient experience.Resources discussed in this episode:“Millionaire Teacher” by Andrew Hallam“Your Money or Your Life” by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin“Beat the Bank” by Larry BatesDalai Lama XIV quoteDr. GlaucomfleckenTakotsubo CardiomyopathyCEGEP—Physician Empowerment: website | facebook | linkedinDr. Nour Khatib MD CM, MBA: Emergency Physician and Speaker: linkedin Transcript:Kevin Mailo  00:00Hi, I'm Dr. Kevin Mailo, and you're listening to the Physician Empowerment Podcast. At Physician Empowerment, we're focused on transforming the lives of Canadian physicians through education and finance, practice transformation, wellness, and leadership. After you've listened to today's episode, I encourage you to visit us at physempowerment.ca. That's P H Y S empowerment.ca to learn more about the many resources we have to help you make that change in your own life, practice, and personal finances. Now on to today's episode. Kevin Mailo  00:34Hi, everyone. I'm Dr. Kevin Mailo, one of the cofounders of Physician Empowerment, and one of the cohosts of the Physician Empowerment Podcast. And tonight, I am very, very excited to introduce to you Dr. Nour Khatib. And Dr. Nour Khatib is a Med School dropout. And she has had a very exciting journey. And we are very happy to have her as part of our team here, speaking at our webinar, and hopefully speaking at some of our future events as well, because she's just so incredible, not only in her medical career, but also in the sphere of teaching and public speaking. And I don't know that I can introduce you properly, Nour. I think it's probably better if I just let you go. And tell us a little bit about your story. And why I introduce you as a Med School dropout. Dr. Nour Khatib  01:24Sure thing. Absolutely. Nice to meet everyone. Thanks for joining tonight. So yeah, Kevin's right. I am a Med School dropout. But I'm currently an emergency physician so how does that work? So what happened with me is I studied in Quebec, I studied in Quebec and I went to CEGEP and that's when you do, you can get into Med School two ways: do an undergrad, or go through quote/unquote the fast track where you can get into pre-med and you've got a guaranteed position into getting into Med School. So I thought, I was studying at Marianopolis College, which was one of the CEGEPs, there and I thought everybody was applying to Med School, maybe I should apply too. I didn't know what I wanted to, I was 18. But I did apply to Med School and I got in and I started. And within two months, I was like this linear path is scary. I don't know if I want to take this linear path. It felt like that's it, my entire life for the next 10 to 15 years is already laid out. And the path is not going to be changed. And I felt all I will know is medicine. And that, in addition to the worries of medical school, was frightening to me. I come from a family of, previously were refugees. We didn't, no one in my family had an undergraduate degree. In fact, they were all working in business or working as entrepreneurs, and just trying to make things happen, not medicine-related not science-related. So I thought to myself, 'What am I doing going into medical school?' Two months in I decided I'm completely burnt out, especially with all that overthinking and overwhelm at the age of 17 or 18, which I still think is too young to be committing to any of this. But that's a different story. And I went to the - it was McGill - so I went to the administration office and I spoke to them, I told them how I was feeling. And they're like, yep, we recognize this. It's called burnout. You're experiencing it, and now we have a solution to your burnout, you're going to take a year off. Doesn't work like that. A solution to burnout is not just a year off. But that's what they said, I was 18 and they gave me a year off. So I decided to take it. In that year off - really within two weeks - I thought to myself, I can't take a year off, that's, you know, Type A personalities, we're not going to take time off. I ended up enrolling in business school. I ended up enrolling at the John Wilson School of Business, doing some finance courses, and absolutely loving it. And thinking to myself, 'Hey, I fit in'. You know? I fit in here. It makes sense to me. It's so exciting, there's presentations, no one's lives are at stake, it's great. And there's no linear path. That part was great because I didn't have to do another degree after or post grad or decide on what specialty. That's it. I can start there, continue, and literally the world is my oyster, I can work in finance or business in any field I want. A year later, McGill gives me a call and they're like, 'Well, you haven't been responding to our emails. So do you want your spot because it's kind of a guaranteed spot, something that's super coveted'. I was like, 'Oh, thank you so much. I actually am in finance now, I switched careers, please give my spot to someone else'. And of course, they've got tons of people to give the spot to and they went ahead and did that. So I worked in finance. I worked in finance and I did co-op and I ended up at graduation, had already worked for three companies after doing some co-op, and the third company basically offered me a contract. And it was Pratt and Whitney Canada. It's an airplane engine manufacturer. And I loved working there. I can't tell you that I loved the job itself. But working there, being in a team, having projects together with engineers, financial analysts, all sorts, I was thriving in that environment. But come and ask me if I liked what I was doing on an Excel spreadsheet? Excel is dear to my heart this very day, but no, not for the rest of my life. I can't imagine myself doing that for the rest of my life. But I loved being in that company. And had I not left, I would have been there forever. Kevin Mailo  05:41Wow. So okay, so you're, you're at this great company? How did you un-drop out of Med School? Nour, tell us how you un-dropped out of Med School? Dr. Nour Khatib  05:52Sure. So the way it works is, really it just goes to show you that sometimes just stars align and, you know, I never used to be a believer of that, but really, like, there was an opportunity, and I kind of went for it. That year, my prerequisites were going to be expired, that like eight years out-- Kevin Mailo  06:15-- yeah, Med School prerequisites, yeah. Dr. Nour Khatib  06:18And then I heard from a friend of a friend that McGill are removing their  MCATS. And I never thought about going back to Med School. Why would I? Pat and Whitney was paying for my MBA, I had already gotten promoted twice, I'm in the middle of the recession in 2008, and I had a job and life was good. There's no reason for me to think of leaving. But someone, there was a seed that was planted that, hey, McGill has removed their MCATs, now it's easier for you to apply. So I decided to look into it. Because there's no way I would have studied for the MCATs, there's no way I would have like been wanting it enough. I decided to, you know what, I'm going to apply, and I'm going to see what happens. And I ended up going for it. I spoke to my manager at work, and the VP Finance of the company, and we were close, like we were, you know, and I told them about what I was thinking. And what they told me is, they're like, 'You know what, you're gonna get bored here. You like it now but you're gonna get bored, you're gonna get promoted, and you're gonna not enjoy the job at some point. You like who you're working with, but they could change. You need to love your career.' And that's, and they told me, they're like, we will write you your reference letters, just go for it. And I decided to go for it. And it felt like I had nothing to lose, I didn't have the pressures of the first time or the pressures that my colleagues had. And that's something that I've told a lot of my friends who, or a lot of people, friends' kids who are trying to get into Med School, I tell them learn something else first. Learn something else, find something else. And don't let it be a one path, a linear path, to the finish line. Because you're living throughout this journey. It's still life, you're not, you don't start living when you graduate, you're living throughout it. Kevin Mailo  08:17You know it, that's very powerful. That's very powerful. I like that a lot. So you got in. Dr. Nour Khatib  08:24And the thing is, though, all throughout this, whether it's the finance degree or the MBA, I can tell you for certain, none of the personal finance knowledge that I know today came from that. It was all theoretical. It was all, you know, project based, case based for certain companies, and theoretical. Just because I have a finance degree and an MBA does not make me better at personal finance than Kevin. Absolutely not. It's really when I started to make money after residency, and I sat back and I said, 'Oh, okay, so now I'm making money. Now I'm paying off debts. What do I do now with this?' What is there to do? Like, do I go to a financial advisor and just say, here, you do everything? Or do I take care of it myself? So that was hard. The first year out of residency is always difficult. Whether it's, you know, you're doubting yourself, your competence, you're just trying to learn the ropes, you've taken over a practice, which in itself is entrepreneurial and business-minded to begin with. And the first year out, I did a lot of working of course, and learning medicine and building that confidence in medicine, in the first few years out. But what I tried to carve out is a little bit of time every week to look into and learn about personal finance. Kevin Mailo  09:50Can I stop you there? Wing came up with a great term for this, and it's not just about personal finance, but it's also about practice management. And he calls it C B E. And that is Continuous Business Education. Just like we constantly invest in our knowledge and skills as physicians, we need to constantly invest in our knowledge and skills as investors and practice managers, or, you know, those that run our practices. So I'll let you continue, though. Keep going. Dr. Nour Khatib  10:19Oh, no worries. I mean, what did that involve? First of all, I felt defeated right from the start. Because I was like, hold on a second, you were in finance, and you worked in the field, and you don't know what you're doing with your money? Like, that's embarrassing. First of all, I told myself don't admit it to anyone, but here I am. Which is totally fine. It really goes to show you that you do not need to have a degree, these things that you're learning are for yourself and through other people's mistakes. And the quicker you learn them, doesn't matter how far out you're in, but the quicker you decide, and take the initiative to learn from other people's mistakes, the more likely you're going to succeed. And the more freeing it is, once I decided that I am going to be taking care of my own finances, doing my own budgeting, realizing that number one is I pay myself first. And I break down what I earn and from where and I actually know where things are coming from. And in the beginning, in the first few months, I wasn't sure where my money was coming from. I was like, from here, from here, from there, what am I spending it on? Oh, probably like, you know, food and rent and before, you know, before owning anything, what? No, that's probably where it went. But the truth is, I needed to break it down and really study and analyze where things are coming from. Kevin Mailo  11:40Can I stop you there? Talk about paying yourself first. This one's thrown around in finance all the time, it's a very old term. Just share with our audience of what it means, because there's going to be some out there that don't know, or you know, don't think about it expansively enough. Dr. Nour Khatib  11:55Sure. I'll just give you an example of, like, what I do first. So what I do is - and when they say pay yourself first, the underlying meaning is really live within your means, and know the measures of what you're dealing with in terms of your money - but here's what I do. Every 15th of every month, right? Like between the first and the 15th, you pretty much make, everything starts coming in from whatever sources that you're working, right? And then towards the 20th of the month or so I decide, okay - and I'm incorporated, so this example kind of goes to those who are incorporated, but it doesn't matter it'll fit both - I first give myself a salary, and pay my taxes on that salary, and I'm living within that salary means. Everything else goes to savings. Kevin Mailo  12:44Wonderful. Dr. Nour Khatib  12:46So let's keep numbers simple. Let's say I pay myself $10,000, and everything else goes into the corporation, or goes into wherever you decide to put it if you're not incorporated. But let's say that $10,000 I think to myself, okay, what am I going to do with this $10,000? What do I, how much do I need? And I'm just giving you a round number. Let's say I just need $3000 or $4,000 just to live that month, whether it's a mortgage, food, gas, whatever it is, that's aside. And now, what am I doing with the rest? Well, I'm putting some in my TFSA. I am putting a few in my savings accounts. And my savings accounts are funny looking. So I've got like six. Why do I have six? I have one emergency fund. I have one car fund for when my car breaks down six, seven years from now. And I have a vacation fund. And what else? I'm interested in flight school. So I have one for flight school. Kevin Mailo  13:39Wow. Of course you do, Nour, of course you're gonna be flying airplanes. Honestly, it's amazing. It speaks to dreams. And you're one of those people that obviously lives your dreams. I admire it and respect it immensely. Keep going, keep going. Sorry. Dr. Nour Khatib  13:55Once I put enough money in the vacation fund, I know I can take a vacation. So that's every month, that's how I divide things up. And that feels in itself super empowering. Just the fact that you've laid out your dreams, you've laid out what you want to spend your money on, you've already paid yourself. And you know, you can't go over that. Kevin Mailo  14:17Well and it gives you space to really enjoy things. Right? You know what I mean? If you have a budget, and you're like, okay, we're going out for a great dinner tonight. And this is something we budgeted for and there's money for it, we're gonna drop 200 bucks on great food and great wine and not feel one ounce of guilt for it because we saved and, you know, planned for it. It's such a powerful thing, right? It's more than just money. More than money, it's more than dollars and cents. It's really about building a better life and being happier and more at peace with your finances, which are a big part of our everyday existences. Can I go a little bit further on paying yourself first, right? Because we talked about like month to month budgeting, but the notion of paying yourself first is you can go past that as well and you can look to the future. And really, you know, that paying yourself first means that you are setting aside money that you're investing every month, every year, for a time in your life years or decades from now, when you are older, and need to be taken care of, right? And it's not just, you know, those frail years, you know, in the final decade or two of our lives, but it can actually be much sooner. And I think many of us who work in medicine are reminded of that on a daily basis, people who become sick or disabled at tragically young ages. And I don't want to be all doom and gloom, but there's this idea that as we age, we have to create more space for our well being. And I'll just share my own personal story. I remember graduating less than 10 years ago, I graduated in practice in 2013. And I remember loving the night shifts, and you're an ER doctor, right Nour, you know, you understand it. I loved the night shifts, I was working, I was fast. I was, you know, I felt great. I would go to the gym after, you know, a night shift and then go to sleep, wake up, go do it again. Of course I did, right? Dr. Nour Khatib  16:09After a night shift? Kevin Mailo  16:11And then, you know, because I mean, because I'm an ER doctor, I should have gone for a bike ride as well, right? Dr. Nour Khatib  16:15With your Patagonia. Kevin Mailo  16:16Yeah, exactly. Like Dr. Glaucomflecken which, by the way, I should send that link out, it's great. Or he's got a number of those skits. But you know, the bottom line is that for myself, within five years of doing that, and working at that pace, I was already feeling tired. And that's when I realized things need to change. And I was shocked at how quick that came. You know what I mean? Like, I was like, oh, well, I'll get tired in 20 years. No, I got tired within five years. You know, four young kids, you know, careers in the household. There was a lot going on. And so, you know, I downshifted and one of the reasons why I was able to downshift is during that time, thankfully, that first five years, I was doing a lot of paying myself first. I was investing in a lot of real estate, not doing it perfectly, not necessarily doing it with a really clear plan, but I was doing it. And I got to a point where I could actually pause and say, 'You know what, I don't need to work these night shifts anymore'. And so I moved off them within five years of practice. So that's just my own little piece. My own little story. Yeah. So it's this idea that there's going to come a time in our lives, there really does come a time in our lives, when we just want to be doing something else. Right, whether it's focusing on family, passions, hobbies, you know, even just our personal well being, even just sleeping more, you know? I had a doctor told me she has not slept since residency, right? You know what I mean? These things happen all the time in our lives. And so just creating that space to live a better life. And, you know, practice how we want to practice is so important. And a cornerstone to that is paying ourselves first, is, you know, putting away money, learning to invest it, and growing that nest egg, so that we take that pressure off to earn. So sorry, I'll let you continue, and hopefully not have any more interruptions from my busy... Dr. Nour Khatib  18:07Oh, no, please, please. Kevin Mailo  18:09It's really cute. Dr. Nour Khatib  18:10You and your daughter are totally welcome. One thing you mentioned, you mentioned, you know, we don't want to be doing this all our lives, we want to move on to other things and hobbies and whatnot. What I learned early on, and I'm so glad I learned it early on - and even for you, Kevin, it looks like you've learned the importance of all of this early on, and I'm thankful for that - is don't wait for these hobbies. Don't wait for the things you want to do. Don't let it be a linear path. I did not want medicine to be a linear path. I promised myself, had I returned the second time, that it like, if I were to continue-- Kevin Mailo  18:51-- I love how you, I gotta interrupt, I love that you say 'return the second time'. To Med School. I don't meet a lot of people who say that sort of thing. Okay keep going. Dr. Nour Khatib  18:59I thought to myself, if I was going to return, I was going to take this as a life experience. I am not going to be a person in, like with my head in the books all the time. I was, because trust me, you go from finance, when you go from finance to try to learn physiology, you're, you know, like, yeah no, it was a disaster. And of course my head was in the books all the time trying to catch up, really. But the truth is, I told myself, this is not just going to be me, it's not going to be the linear path. Because if it is, I will burn out right away. And I realized that one year out, is that I had colleagues doing 20 shifts a month. And you know what? They're doing it, but really, is that longevity? Is that sustainable? Probably not. I don't do that much. I don't do that many shifts a month. I work probably every day a month, but not necessarily in emergency medicine. Kevin Mailo  19:50Well, and this is exactly it. And this was the advice that, you know, I'd gotten years ago in residency and that is a career in medicine is not a sprint. It is a marathon. And by creating that financial space to have a more balanced life, to sleep, to exercise, to eat right, to all the things you need to be doing that you would tell your own patient, means that you are going to be able to really enjoy your career for the long haul and really do your best medicine. You know, my patients are so much happier since I slowed down. If I can be perfectly honest. And it's wonderful. I just I love love being there. Dr. Nour Khatib  20:26You probably miss it, too, if you haven't gone in a few days. You miss it. Kevin Mailo  20:30A little bit, a little bit. This unbeatable summer weather. I don't know about that right now. But yeah, like, and it's just wonderful to share in it. You know, I picked up a Takotsubo cardiomyopathy, there are gonna be some people that are just rolling their eyes, like what does that mean? You know, because they sat there and talked to an elderly gentleman who said he was really experiencing childhood trauma. Right? Yeah. And I would never, like, you know, I just had that time because I wasn't in that big rush. You know, just enjoying my job more. And so anyhow, I mean I love this, Nour. I love what you're sharing. Keep going. We've got a little bit more time. Tell us a little bit more about your journey. Dr. Nour Khatib  21:07And so where was I? So let's say a year out. A year out, I decided I'm going to teach myself personal finance. How did I do it? Whether it's reading blogs, reading certain books that have helped others? A couple of books that have helped me are... Kevin Mailo  21:22What are your favorites, what are your favorites? Dr. Nour Khatib  21:23"Millionaire Teacher" was my favorite because it just hit all the points. Yeah, it just hit all the points. And it was very basic. It wasn't too complex. And it was one of my favorite recommendations. "Beat the Bank" is a pretty good one, too. Thing is, once you start reading these, they all say the same thing in the end. And one that I'm currently reading, and I know I will be rereading, is "Your Money or Your Life?" Kevin Mailo  21:45Oh, I like that. Dr. Nour Khatib  21:46And the whole concept of that one - and it was written, I believe in the 70s or 80s, but then it was revamped in 2018 for nowadays - "Your Money or Your Life", the concept is, if someone were to put a gun to your back and say 'your money or your life', obviously, you know, you'd say, here take all my money. Kevin Mailo  22:04Absolutely. Dr. Nour Khatib  22:05But the truth is, our rat race towards money is costing us our life. And just because it's not as dramatic as a gun to your back, it's prolonged. You are losing life, because we are chasing money in a way that is a poor relationship with money. We are working more and exhausting ourselves to make more, rather than trying to work smarter or work and be happier in our job. Kevin Mailo  22:33So I'm going to interrupt you there. And I'm just pulling up the quote right now. But there's this great quote from the Dalai Lama when he was asked about what surprised him the most in humanity, and he said, "Man himself, because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices his money to recuperate his health." You know, and he is so anxious, what does it say here? Sorry, I'm just, I'm going off, but it's so anxious about the future, he doesn't enjoy the present, right? And it's so true, Nour. It's so true, what you're sharing, that we just get caught up in this rat race of earning, thinking, oh, I'll live next year, or I'll be happier next year. I'll be healthier next year, but we really shouldn't be living like that. Dr. Nour Khatib  23:16100% 100%. And it's, you know,what, not every day is perfect. The last few weeks for me have been rough, I have to say. I worked, I ended up, I would say the first year out was rough. A few years after that, trying to, you know, get things along was great. And then you start getting, you go through this burnout phase of the whole profession is collapsing on itself, unfortunately. And you really just have to step back and realize these are systemic problems. That your job is to take it one patient at a time, and take care of whoever's in front of you right now. And just do the best you can with the intentions and with the resources that you can. And just be, every day ends and a shift ends. Right? At the end of it, it's over and you've tried your best, and that's all you can say to yourself is that you've done everything you can at that time. And then you can move on to helping others. The problem is in our profession, is there's all this cumulative PTSD from the horrible cases that have gone wrong. And that that takes a toll on us. And I honestly do think every doctor needs a therapist. Every doctor needs a therapist, every person needs a therapist. But whether it's in the good times or the bad. Kevin Mailo  24:32I think that's incredibly powerful, incredibly powerful. Dr. Nour Khatib  24:36Let the therapist see your good times, hearing your good times in order for you to be able to go through your bad times. Kevin Mailo  24:41I look at it like going to the gym or eating right. It's something you should make a part of your life. Not something you just do here and there or when things get bad. That is exactly my view as well. Everyone should have one. Everyone should have one. We deal with a lot of sadness and trauma and heartbreak in this job. And we don't necessarily internalize that, because we're so highly trained. But the truth is we deal with a lot, across all specialties, across all specialties. And there's a lot of stress associated with it. We deal with a lot of risk, right? We don't necessarily internalize that either, how much risk we deal with when we discharge patients, you know, your psychiatrists, you decide not to form that patient, there's a risk they could go out and harm themselves, right? Like there's risk to everything we do, even as a radiologist. Is it a thing? Or is it not a thing? Right, but it's true. It's true. You know, that's a very beautiful observation, though. About he importance of ongoing mental and emotional health. Dr. Nour Khatib  25:45100% 100%. Kevin Mailo  25:49Yeah. I love it. Dr. Nour Khatib  25:51And so like I mentioned, I don't do as many emergency shifts as, let's say, the typical emergency doctor. But I still consider myself as I am an emergency physician. It is my profession. I might be doing surgical assist, cardiac stress test clinic, event doctoring, I do speaking on the side to corporations. Kevin Mailo  26:14Of course you do, Nour. Of course you do. Okay, keep going, Dr. Nour Khatib  26:17I teach people about personal finance. And I, you know, I enjoy doing all these different things. One thing that I  - remember earlier, I was saying, don't wait for your hobbies, don't wait to do your hobbies later, try to pick them up and do them now, whatever it is that you enjoy it just make it part of your life, just like how you schedule a shift - so I do Muay Thai kickboxing. I'm a voiceover artists that does work on the side for commercials just for fun. It doesn't pay much, but I enjoy it. So if you ,like, I've done a few commercials on the radio and one for Hershey's as well. And it's just something I enjoy doing. And it's something that I think everyone needs to find what it is they like, whether it pays or doesn't pay, just make sure that it's part of your life. Kevin Mailo  27:00You know, I really, really love that. So we're kind of coming up on 30 minutes. I'm shocked at how quickly it's flown by. And then we obviously have to get you back on another webinar and on to like a formal podcast episode as well. Because there's just so much wisdom here, right? I mean, one of my reflections on this financial journey for myself in talking to physicians coast to coast about money, is that the world is full of knowledge, facts and information. I mean, go on YouTube, you learn about real estate, you buy crypto, you learn about buying crypto, you can learn about day trading, learn about all these things, but that that wisdom, what you're sharing today, Nour, is in such short supply in our world in many respects. And, you know, a lot of us are chasing money or, you know, trying to earn or trying to invest. But not asking ourselves what do I really want in life? You know, and does my financial plan align with my life's goals? But I just, I love what you shared. And I just want to recap that notion of paying yourself first, right? Setting a budget, living within the budget, enjoying the budget, celebrating it right? Like if you've got 10 grand for that vacation, go and blow that 10 grand on a vacation and really enjoy yourself. And do it knowing that you've already paid yourself, then you've already filled up your investment accounts, and you've already made that move in real estate or done whatever. So that you have space to live right now. Knowing that also that future version of yourself that is older, sicker, tired, doesn't want to work those night shifts, doesn't want to do that call, that person is also taken care of. And I think that's so, so important. So I gotta wrap it up. But I'd love to hear any final thoughts you have, anything else you want to share about yourself, about your journey. Dr. Nour Khatib  28:49It's really been about learning, making mistakes, ups and downs. And that's what life is no matter what. The quicker you realize that what your business here is called, physician empowerment, is about feeling empowered with regards to your finances and your life. And don't let medicine win. You are in control of medicine. You are the captain of this ship, and you're going to be steering it. Do not let medicine take over your life. It is a tool we use to help people, but physician heal thyself first. Kevin Mailo  29:29Wow. Wow. That was incredible. And so true. So I think we're gonna, I think we're gonna wrap up there. I'm so, so glad and so, so grateful to have you on tonight like this. Thank you so much, Nour. Kevin Mailo  29:47Thank you so much for listening to the Physician Empowerment Podcast. If you're ready to take those next steps in transforming your practice, finances, or personal wellbeing, then come and join us at physempowerment.ca - P H Y S empowerment.ca - to learn more about how we can help. 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Dawn DeKeyser on IMDB - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0215245/Dawn's Website - https://www.dawndekeyser.comMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistTranscripts Are Auto-GeneratedMichael Jamin:I've made a number of posts about this that yeah, put yourself in a box. People are like, But I don't wanna be in a box. Put yourself in a box and you'll worry about getting outta the box later. But right now, you need to sell yourself as who? This is what you are. What do I do? That's right. That'sDawn DeKeyser:Right. And, and so many new writers are still struggling with that. And I said, People cannot help you if they don't know where to put you.Michael Jamin:You're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jam. Hey everybody, this is Michael Jamin and you're listening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear this. Mike cohost Phil Hudson. He's got the day off again. He's doing some more work behind the scenes, but I'm here interviewing the amazingly talented Dawn de Kaiser. And, uh, Dawn, let me tell, tell everybody who you are. Let me also you, I need to remind you who you are.Dawn DeKeyser:Okay? Please doMichael Jamin:So. You got a long history of writing some pretty great shows. So first you started, I guess, on All American Girl. That was the Margaret Cho show you did Ink Ted Danson. Remember that one? I remember that one. News Radio you wrote a news radio you wrote on All right, already, which I did not know. I guess you wrote with Steven Engel on that one. I didn't know that. Conrad Bloom, you know, I went to, uh, I went to uh, college with him. We were friends in college, Mark Fostein. Um, but I haven't talked to him since. And then the Gina Davis show starring who, who started that? Uh, the Becker Becker again. Ted Danson. Let's listen to these credits you got there was amazing. Uh, just for kicks. Ugly Betty. We know Betty Lafa, Samantha, who if I were on that show, I would've been insufferable because someone would've said, Yeah, I I have an idea. What if Samantha goes on a date? And I would've been like, Samantha, who? That would've been my joke all every day. Sign sealed. Oh, I skip on the client list. Sign sealed, delivered, hit Streak. The Gourmet Detective Summer. Love the Good Witch. Thank you, John. Thank you so much. Look at me. Are you impressed with how much work?Dawn DeKeyser:I am so impressed at. Who knew? I had no idea.Michael Jamin:You've done a lot of you. So anyway, I thank you so much for joining because, uh, is, we've never worked together. I always, even though I've known you for years, I always figured we would work together at some point. We just never did. And I blame you for that.Dawn DeKeyser:I, uh, I, blame me, we were on the same studio a lot. We were like, Yeah. Next to we had bungalows next to each other. Mm-hmm. . So that counts completely is, Yeah.Michael Jamin:Yeah. You were always a familiar face.Dawn DeKeyser:But before we start, can I curse?Michael Jamin:I don't Sure. Why, why would you, Is there something you wanna get off your chest? ?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. No, just that in the course of talking, it's gonna play a part of describing my path in life and Oh yeah. I don't think I could do it without some gods and fucks. SoMichael Jamin:Do it. Do it up.Dawn DeKeyser:Okay.Michael Jamin:Cause I we're getting to the truth again. So let's begin. How did you become? Where did you start? How did you get into sit? Everyone wants to know how people get into sitcom writing or TV writing. So how did you get in?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah, so, and we all come from different angles on different paths. And in order to get to my TV days, I'll just say a little bit about my background. I was raised in a military family and my dad was a fighter pilot. And I grew up in a very great Sani kind of house. Um, I, I say I was the best son my dad ever had because I was tough and competitive. And I weighed 92 pounds and I was pious.Michael Jamin:Wait, did, were you the only child?Dawn DeKeyser:No, I had two sisters. So my mom, who was lovely, she would dress my sisters and I all in matching dresses, hats, gloves and shoes. And we would march out onto the tarmac and salute the F four phantoms as they landed.Michael Jamin:Wow. And so, and so you moved around the country then? Probably?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah, I was born in Japan and I lived in England.Michael Jamin:Oh my. And so your Okay. Military brat. And then when you say Great Santa, cuz your dad was strict. Oh, is Now, do you wanna start cursing now? What did you want to curse?Dawn DeKeyser:Um, well, let's see. He, we did have a flow chart of our chores on our bedrooms. And when we were, I think starting at three and four and our beds had to be made with hospital corners really. And we would have to stand in a line, add attention and get, you know, understand what our chores were gonna be for the day and for the week.Michael Jamin:Because you are so not that you're so, you know, kind of almost soft spoken, very gentle. You're very warm energy. You're not , you're not a, you know, uh,Dawn DeKeyser:It's taken a long time to get this outta my system. So when I was in junior high, we moved from England to Texas and I went from riding English, um, horseback to competing in rodeos. And I then started racing sailboats. And by college I was on the varsity team. And, um, by the way, I paid my way through college, working two or three jobs each semester. And I started working when I was 15. That's a little Rob Cohen of me. Yeah.Michael Jamin:Wait, where did you go to school?Dawn DeKeyser:Um, which time? Uh, I went to, so in college I went to the University of Texas and I studied international business, Uhhuh. And then I dropped out of UT and moved to Belgium where I worked at a division of NATO for, for,Michael Jamin:I feel like you might speak a lot of languages. Do you speak how many languages you speak?Dawn DeKeyser:Um, I used to speak French when I worked in the warehouse with the Belgians. Right. Um, and then, you know, when my other girlfriends were cheerleaders and all that, I was treasurer of the Latin Club. I don't mean to brag.Michael Jamin:Wow. So you speak Latin. I knew you spoke. What?Dawn DeKeyser:And, and so then I, after dropping out, I went back and I finished up my degree in, uh, appropriately named a BS in advertising. And that's, that's really when I started my writing career. And, um, let's see, what did I do? So I started,Michael Jamin:You worked in advertising.Dawn DeKeyser:So I got to work on tv, radio, and print. And in fact, my first assignment was writing, uh, dozens of scripts for David Brener for TacoMichael Jamin:Bell. That was your work. Now I, now I know your work. .Dawn DeKeyser:That's what I'm known for. Um, so getting closer to the TV part, I was living in Dallas. My boyfriend was discovered by a talent manager, and he immediately moved out to LA and became a successful actor.Michael Jamin:Do we know his name?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. I went, I'll I'll say it. I mean, it was a long time ago. So Tom Hayden Church.Michael Jamin:Oh, I did not know that. Okay.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. And so he, his confidence and his uniqueness was just like he broken right away. Mm-hmm. . And I went on to New York and in advertising, which I loved. And you know, after a while, after about two years, I thought maybe I could write something longer than 30 seconds. Mm-hmm. . So I took writing classes at night. I did improv, which I was terrible at because of that. Let's revisit the military background. I am not spontaneous.Michael Jamin:You're not supposed to go off script when you're in the military.Dawn DeKeyser:Oh. Oh, no. And I'm very methodical and you know, by this time I was like mid to late twenties and I guess I was having a quarter life crisis and thinking, what, what am I, what do I wanna do and what do I love doing? I loved writing and I loved sitcoms more than anything. Um, I didn't know how to do that. I called Tom, who was at the time on Wings, that was his first series. And I said, Could you send by now my ex-boyfriend? And I said, Could you send me the writer's draft through a producing draft? I wanna see the transition mm-hmm. of how this writing is done. And so then I started taping my favorite shows and then doing the stop and pause on the VHS tape.Michael Jamin:Like really studying how long a scene would be, how what the act breaks are everything. Huh.Dawn DeKeyser:All that. The dialogue, the, and I would map out the beats on a notepad, which by the way, I still write on old fashioned paper notepads for everything. And then I transfer it to the computer. Wow.Michael Jamin:That's old school.Dawn DeKeyser:That is old school. And it is all about the ritual. And like, I think there's something about the the brain to the heart to the hand that gets on paper that I, I don't get when I write.Michael Jamin:But you could, you must be able to read your handwriting. Cause I can't read my handwriting. I couldn't even try.Dawn DeKeyser:I no, I can't. I can get the gist of it.Michael Jamin:Oh, really? Okay.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. Um, so Tom sent me a series of one of one script and, um, I was writing my own two spec scripts. And then I moved to LA with $3,000 in cash.Michael Jamin:And where, what I always, I I have to What part in LA did you live at first?Dawn DeKeyser:I lived Endless Field, which was being hailed as the New West Village of LA and it is not. And I was living right on Vermont Avenue and I slept on my bathrobe for the first two weeks until my stuff came from New York.Michael Jamin:But you had a place all by yourself or you have roommates?Dawn DeKeyser:Uh, no, I had a place to myself. I mean, it was $700 for one.Michael Jamin:Mm-hmm. . That sounds about right. That's a good deal actually. Uh, even then, that's a good deal. So, okay. And then, and then how did you find a, how did you finally get work?Dawn DeKeyser:So I was writing these spec scripts and I sent them them to Bill Diamond and Mike Sal. Mm-hmm. . And when I moved out to LA, they were my first meeting.Michael Jamin:But How did you know them?Dawn DeKeyser:Through Tom? Because they were baby writers on the show. Oh,Michael Jamin:Right. Yeah.Dawn DeKeyser:And they said, you know, we thought you were just gonna be some gal who want, who had this idea of writing for sick homes, but you know what you're doing. Right. And I was very happy about that. They didn't give me my first break,Michael Jamin:But they, but they weren't, they were just staff writers at the time.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah, yeah. Which is fine. You know, I thought the first thing I needed to do was build a community. So I took a UCLA extension class at night and on the last day of the class, everyone was filing out. Someone turned around and said, you know, the deadline for the Disney Writer's Fellowship is tomorrow. You have to have your work postmarked by then. Okay. And I ran home and got my stuff in the mail the next morning. And, um, I sort of like that intro that I just talked about my life, I sort of put some of that in the essay that you write for what's your unique background. And, um, and then sent in a, uh, a Murphy Brown, maybe. Mm-hmm. , I'mMichael Jamin:Not sure you had a bunch of specsDawn DeKeyser:Probably. No, I had, because I'm very methodical, I would spend six months writing each of them. Okay. And that's night and day work shopping, doing writers groups, doing punch up mm-hmm. , um, until I felt like every page that your eyeballs land on made sense and was good and had a joke and you knew where the characters were going.Michael Jamin:Before we skip ahead, you said something I thought was really smart, you said you wanted to build your community. Right. Because a lot of people don't even think about that.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah.Michael Jamin:So you knew you wanted by, you knew you wanted help or you wanted, like what, what were you looking for?Dawn DeKeyser:Well, I knew that I didn't know anyone here. Tom was off on his own, uh, fabulous life. I knew a girl from Dallas from years before, but, um, there was, there was no one that I could send my stuff to and I did cold calling to the agents and that didn't work. Doesn't do anything. Yeah. And so in the UCLA classes, I would usually, if you've got a group of 20 people, there's two that get it, let's say 10%, they'reMichael Jamin:Get what get you or what do you mean get it?Dawn DeKeyser:I mean, they get what the, they are really there to learn and to be in that field. Mm-hmm. some others, you know, just they, it's a fun class to take. Right. But you can tell the two or three people that are very, um, interested in moving their career forward. Right. So I ingratiated myself and said, Let's form a writer's group. And that was okay. You know, that was fine until you start meeting people through them, they bring in their set of information that you don't have access to mm-hmm. and then it just starts growing.Michael Jamin:Right? Yeah. You gotta be there. And you, you were there now, how were you making a living? You still working in advertising now?Dawn DeKeyser:So I was still in, I wasn't in doing advertising. I was temping and I had this job at, uh, Disney on the lot where I was answering phones for the head of marketing mm-hmm. . And I thought, I'm advertising and marketing. And because, um, at, on the second day, he came out of his office and he said, Who are you and why are you so bad at answering phones? Like you're dropping calls and you're, you're sending in the wrong people. And I was like, Yeah, cuz um, this is really what I do. I actually love the One Sheet movie posters that you guys are writing, so I'd like to write headlines for that. And I had secretly gone into the files to see what their freelancers were invoicing them.Michael Jamin:Interesting.Dawn DeKeyser:And he said, Yeah, I don't think you're right for that. So I brought in my portfolio the next day and he said, I think you're right for this. So I started picking up freelance for movie posters,Michael Jamin:But that was not, See some people think that that's how you break in, but I wouldn't think that that's how to break in. That's just how to make a book. Right.Dawn DeKeyser:What do you mean? Like,Michael Jamin:Well, like that wouldn't, working in that advertising side for Disney wouldn't get you, you know, you're on the Disney lot, but it wouldn't get you as a sick, you know, get you work as a sit home writer.Dawn DeKeyser:That's right. So that predated getting into, so I got in the Disney Writer's Fellowship, Right. Um, that was over the course of like a two, two month process of interviewing and meeting with their executives. And I went into that meeting thinking, this is what I moved out here for. And they said, So what is your plan if, if this doesn't work out? And I said, This is going to work out. I really can't imagine y y'all finding someone better or more dedicated to doing great work. I really wanna do this. I wanna work with my heroes. I wanna work with people that will make me a better writer.Michael Jamin:And who were your heroes then?Dawn DeKeyser:Well, weirdly enough, um, I had top a top five. One was Diane English, one was Chris Lloyd, the, the writer. HowMichael Jamin:Did you know Chris Lloyd? But yeah, I was so surprised you from, how would you know, how did you know Chris? Like how was he? He, Diane English? Yeah,Dawn DeKeyser:Diane English. Um, Chris was,Michael Jamin:Was he running, He wasn't running Fraser then?Dawn DeKeyser:He was like higher up on Fraser.Michael Jamin:Wow. Okay. Yeah. I'm surprised you even thought of him. But I mean Yeah, he's great. He's a he is a great writer forDawn DeKeyser:Sure. Yeah, he is. And I can't remember the other three, but within the first two years of breaking in, I worked with all five of them.Michael Jamin:Wow. Wow. Now, what was the fellowship like? Cuz we did the Warner Brothers Writer's Workshop.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah.Michael Jamin:I'd rather you talk about it. What was the Disney one like? What was your experience there?Dawn DeKeyser:It was so great. They picked five people. I think they had in that year, um, 3000 applicants. They picked five of us and Wow. That's it. Pardon?Michael Jamin:That's it. That's, I can't, I I didn't, I didn't know it was that small.Dawn DeKeyser:Well, it's, I think it's bigger these days. I think they take on 10 or 20, which is good. And they have a, they had another five fellows that did only film. And our five, you know, I'm still in contact with today. We would meet, um, twice a week at each other's houses. And then usually once a week or every two weeks we'd go to Disney and we would pitch where we are with our specs script. So it was a small, like a small stipend that paid the rent. OhMichael Jamin:Wow. And those five, all five went on to work?Dawn DeKeyser:Um, not consistently. Not really. Okay. But that again, was just, I think it has everything to do with focus. Mm-hmm. . Um, and I'll talk about that a little more of like, if you, if you are not, if you don't pick a lane, I am a sitcom half hour multi-camera mm-hmm. writer. That's what I wanna do.Michael Jamin:That Right. I, I so intriguing. Cause I say that I've made a number of posts about this that Yeah, put yourself in a box. People like, but I don't wanna be in a box, Put yourself in a box and you worry about getting outta the box later. But right now you need to sell yourself as who this is what you are. Why do I do? That's right.Dawn DeKeyser:That's right. And, and so many new writers are still struggling with that. And I said, People cannot help you if they don't know where to put you. Yeah. And so if you say, Oh, I write drama and comedy and romance, it's like, that's great for you, but I only know comedy writers. Right. So I don't think I'm gonna even help you because I don't know if you're really connected with that or with drama orMichael Jamin:How serious you are about it. Yeah, exactly. Market yourself. Make it easy for people. Yeah. You know? Yeah. What, See, it's, so sometimes I, sometimes I wonder, am I just bullshitting? Am I making this up? You know, am I the only one who feels this way? No, I don't, I don't think, I think I'm saying stuff everyone else thinks, you know, agrees withDawn DeKeyser:You are not alone. And you're getting such great information out there to so many people. It's really spectacular.Michael Jamin:You're very kind.Dawn DeKeyser:You're fan Michael Jam. ButMichael Jamin:That's me. So then, okay, so then okay, then what you have. All right.Dawn DeKeyser:So then I was in the fellowship and they put, they don't promise, but they say, we may place you on one of our Disney shows. And that's where I went onto All American Girl. Mm-hmm. . AndMichael Jamin:It, Were they paying you? Cuz I'm Warner of Brothers. If they staffed you in one of their shows, you get, at least back then you would get, you work for like a third of scale. A third. But was that the case on Disney?Dawn DeKeyser:We didn't get paid, but we got paid for the scripts that we wrote because they were already paying. Like, more brothers doesn't pay youMichael Jamin:To pay. Right. No one of those you pay to get in.Dawn DeKeyser:Oh yeah.Michael Jamin:We paid. Yeah. We, we paid like, I think it was like $400 each or something. But I think it's way more than now. I think it's a lot more now.Dawn DeKeyser:Hmm. No, they, they would place you as free labor on their shows. And it was my first experience in the writer's room. It was hard. I had trouble being heard. And I did end up, we had an order for 13 episodes. I ended up writing three of them.Michael Jamin:What was your three? That's that's a lot actually for a staff writer. I wonder why weren't you, you must have been scared.Dawn DeKeyser:They liked my writing. They liked, like, I spent again, it was like, I really sweated it. This is another thing that I, that I stress to writers is sweated, you can't make a lot of money if you're not putting that amount into your writing and your own career. SoMichael Jamin:Yeah. So 13, that's a lot. And but what was it like? I mean, were you okay? I always think that when we first kinda just shoot me, I was like, I'm in over my head. I am in over my head. Yeah. How did you felt? The same wayDawn DeKeyser:I am in over my head. Um, I, yeah, I, it was terrifying. And I realized that I wasn't a match for people who had been in writing rooms that were louder funnier, more obnoxious, mostly just louder. Mm-hmm. . So I sat next to this one writer and I, I'd whisper things to him to see if he could pitch them for me.Michael Jamin:And did he? Yeah. And, and they went over and then did he give you, did you say as dope? OhDawn DeKeyser:Yeah. Yeah. He would gimme credit. But you know, I said I don't even wanna push that. I just wanna see.Michael Jamin:Right. IfDawn DeKeyser:You're on the right game. Well, I wanna be part of this game, but I don't know how to play.Michael Jamin:Yeah, right. Exactly. Right. And it takes several, How long did it take you before you felt like you knew how to play? How many years?Dawn DeKeyser:Um, well that's the interesting thing because my next job was on news radio. Right. And I, I have all, I had felt like an all American girl that I was getting my, you know, sort of getting my feet under me. But that was, they were kicked out from under me on this, on the next actual staff job that I have. Right. That I had. And it took me, um, quite a long time to feel okay in the room. And it really wasn't until many years later when I was in the ugly Betty Writers' room because the, you had drama writers there who were so great about staying on focus with the story and not performing and the performance of the comedy when you do a comedy pitch. I was scared ofMichael Jamin:Oh, interesting. So cuz they don't have, obviously when you're doing the drama you don't have to be funny. So they're basically just talking about the story points. Cause I haven't really worked on it and they're not, Yeah. They're not hoping the joke will land cuz there is no joke.Dawn DeKeyser:It was so weird to, um, go out on, on an act with no joke. It was like, what? Wait, we can just cliff hanger like that. .Michael Jamin:Do you feel like these drama rooms are more civilized because of that?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah, definitely. They were also, they were just more writerly and, um, more mature. And I, you know, I say that sitcom riding was a full contact sport. Mm-hmm. . And I didn't realize that when I started I wanted to be around really funny people. And it was so much work for me. There was the whole other aspect of being a female writer and oftentimes the only woman in the room.Michael Jamin:Why? Talk about that experience a little. What's that like?Dawn DeKeyser:Well, it sucked .Michael Jamin:It, it sucked. It sucked.Dawn DeKeyser:It wasMichael Jamin:Sucked. But not all the time. Just sometimes or all the time?Dawn DeKeyser:Every timeMichael Jamin:On every show. Every show.Dawn DeKeyser:No. If there were other women in the writer's room, it was a little less terrible,Michael Jamin:But still terrible.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . It wasn't until I got into dramas and then dramas that I just felt like, okay, I can, I can do my work. I could be funny. I'm much funnier on the page and I would just think, Oh God, I gotta get out of the writer's room so I can be funny. Right. So that was not the best strategy.Michael Jamin:Right.Dawn DeKeyser:Um, and I was the only woman on news radio that year. Andy and Eileen were there and they left after a few episodes.Michael Jamin:Right. But Right. But you overlap with him. Right. Cause that's how I, that's how I met you through Eileen I think.Dawn DeKeyser:Oh, probably. Yeah. Yeah. That's right.Michael Jamin:And you know, they were both very, I remember I'd just shoot me, both of them. They'd pitch a line, like a story, uh, idea and then, you know, people Oh, that's good. And like, how do you know it's good? How do they, like how are they doing this? Like how do you know? You know, Anyway, but I thinkDawn DeKeyser:That's, I don't know. Would you say that it helps to have a partner? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Michael Jamin:For sure. It helped a lot. I mean I, you know, the two of us were clinging to each other for, you know, for dear life. . Um, I think definitely it's that way more intimidating to do it all to it on yourself. But how do you, what do you like, what do you experience even now or like lately when you have a staff writer who feels the same way that you felt like what, you knowDawn DeKeyser:Yeah.Michael Jamin:What goes on there?Dawn DeKeyser:Well, um, working on pilots, there was one young girl who came in and just to sort of observe mm-hmm. and I just took to her because she was so, um, she had a script in a big binder with all of it color coded with all of her nose. I was like, Oh my God, you're after my heart. Um, becauseMichael Jamin:She's so prepared. People, young writers come in prepared sometimes. I'm alwaysDawn DeKeyser:Yeah, they do. And I just said, You are after my heart. I will help you in any way that I can. And she was working for, for quite some time. I think she lives on the East coast now. Right. It's that, um, it's that showing up prepared and really earnest. Like, I love that. I kind of love when people try a little too hard and sometimes it can be cringy. I'm like, Yes, I get it. That's me.Michael Jamin:But do you have you also, cause I've experienced young writers who kind of don't under, they don't know what they don't know as well, you know, as well and they kind ofDawn DeKeyser:Yeah.Michael Jamin:Argue or overstep and, you know, have you experienced that?Dawn DeKeyser:Oh yeah. And the, one of the first things I say is, do not litigate. Do just, just take it in. And it's also the, um, once you learn how to take notes on your script and realize that it's not personal, get out of your own fucking way. Get outta your way. Because after like being in writer's groups, we had rules about how we gave notes to each other. And the person getting the notes has to shut up. You cannot explain why you put something in a script. It's like, I don't care why you put it in there. Here's me as a reader is not getting this part of it. Right. And there's been plenty of times I'd be giving people notes and just like in classes or writer's room. Um, Yeah. Classes a writer resume. And I could tell that they didn't want the note.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Oh well no one wants a note. . Yeah. I mean,Dawn DeKeyser:I mean just like basic stuff, especially in writers' groups where if, if they are arguing their stance and their reason for why they wrote something, it's like, Oh, I get it. Okay. You're good. You're good to go. All all's good.Michael Jamin:Right. Right. And so this, see, it's so funny how we have the same, like we've never worked in the same show. We've had so many the same exact experiences.Dawn DeKeyser:Yes. Although I would, I would, Oh you said venture to mention that. Um, you know, and some writers' rooms, it's like, I was not safe. I was commented, my body was commented on when I would walk into a room and when I would leave a room and I was told to suck it up by my agents because it was a really good show. OrMichael Jamin:Do you think they were trying to be funny or were they're being sexual harassing? Like, you know, what were they trying, what was the Oh,Dawn DeKeyser:Sometimes it was just trying to be funny. But, um, it was funny at my expense I say I was humiliated for sport on a particular show. Right. And they were cruel. And they were also like, my agents came in after one of our show tapings and they looked around the office and went, Oh, I see what you're talking about. It smells like rancid cheese in here. The guys were walking around in boxer shorts. They had brought futons to their offices cuz they were just staying there.Michael Jamin:So like, cuz the hours is terrible. Yeah,Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. And they also had jars of their pee in the offices because I thought that was hilarious.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Dawn DeKeyser:So that's, that's not just being like, IMichael Jamin:Dunno. And it's interesting that you, you were able to speak up about this because this was before people were really speaking up about this. You know what I'mDawn DeKeyser:Saying? I didn't, I didn't, I mean, I didn't until more recently. That's a really,Michael Jamin:To your agent at least you did. You know?Dawn DeKeyser:Well, I just said it's so hard. I mean it's so Yeah. And that my agents were womenMichael Jamin:And they still, And you're, they still,Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah.Michael Jamin:I can't, I want, What do you think if that were today though? I can't imagineDawn DeKeyser:It wouldn't happen today.Michael Jamin:Yeah. You'd be taking a lot more seriously, you know. Yeah,Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. It, it, it, yeah. It wouldn't happen today. Um, that, that show ended up not hiring a woman writer for the rest of its run for like three or four more seasons.Michael Jamin:And, but from what I understand, well maybe, maybe I shouldn't say which show it was. Do we say which show it was? I know some,Dawn DeKeyser:It may have earlier, butMichael Jamin:I know some of the, like some of these shows that you were on the hours were absolutely terrible. Terrible. Like, what were those, what was that like?Dawn DeKeyser:That was like being held hostage by a crazy person. Right. And that sometimes the showrunner would be on medication and they would not be able to focus and they would just kind of keep us there. A lot of times you'd hear about showrunners who just didn't wanna go home to their wife and kids, which is terrible,Michael Jamin:Terrible, terrible. Right. Wow.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. Wow. So that was, that was hard. I mean, driving home at four in the morning and then getting up at around 10, um, and then getting back to the office by 10 30 or 11,Michael Jamin:Was there a lot of sitting around and waiting? Or was it all work?Dawn DeKeyser:No, it was a lot of sitting around and waiting and storytelling galing each other. Mm-hmm. , you know. Geez. But, but things are not, they don't work that way anymore. Which is,Michael Jamin:Yeah. I don't think so. You gotta, yeah. When you get, that's a bad situation. Uh, sometimes like we, you know, we did a couple bad hours like on just shoot me, but it was never, cuz we were dicking around, it was because like a story blew, blew up and we had to work till four in the morning. That was a couple of those. But it wasn't, cuz it wasn't ill behavior. It was just, that's just the, you know, sometimes that happens.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah, for sure. And you know, people like Steve Levitan and some of the other guys you've worked with, they are not there to make a point or single someone out just for fun. Yeah. And you guys, you and Sea were as showrunners, you would never do that. You would never write that.Michael Jamin:No. Our goal was always to go home early. That was, how could we go home early today, , what could we do to get the work done, Have a, have a good hour. Um, but what about developing when you, you know, come up with your own ideas? What's that? How does that work?Dawn DeKeyser:That was, um, that was usually, uh, someone that I'd be in the writer's room with. They would come to me and say, I've got an idea. Do you like this? Or we would pair up just for the pitch.Michael Jamin:So most of your develop, Okay. So people ask me about that. Can you, can you work independently or can you work with team up with people? Cuz we, we, you know, that's what you did mostly.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. And when I was, um, like I'd say mid-level writer mm-hmm. , it would behoove me to go in with a showrunner or a co p Right. And, um, just so that I could to have those meetings and kind of get the lay of the land until later when I would writeMichael Jamin:Around.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah.Michael Jamin:But in the beginning, were you, were you kind of working under them or were you literally together.Dawn DeKeyser:Together. Okay. Together.Michael Jamin:And, and then now, okay, now when you come up with an idea, how does that work alone? I mean,Dawn DeKeyser:Oh, it was, it was great. So we're, we've been talking mostly about the nineties and then after a few of the shows, like I, I went to work through the rest of the nineties, but I did definitely get the comedy knocked out of me. Um, I went on to do a series of shows and over that time there were less and less options because we had the game shows coming in and reality tv. And by 2000 I went to rehab and it was very helpful. I mean, you know, I got this shit kicked out of me and I was no match. I was not cravenly ambitious. I was just always grateful to be there, which doesn't give you any control. And with, with my, it was a short stint and I was able to piece things together. I also took jobs for shorter amounts of time. Like if they had a full year season, I'd say I'll work the first 13.Michael Jamin:What if they pick, what if they wanted you for the back nine or whatever.Dawn DeKeyser:Then I said, I'm not available. And I'd move to New York and just kind of in between each show I had to do a lot of repair. I just had to sleep.Michael Jamin:Interesting. I I, I didn't even know that was an option. Like that's kind of, I that's kind of unusual to kind of good for you. Like, you're calling the shots, you're saying this is what I'm willing to do. I don't know anybody who does that, who can do that, I guess.Dawn DeKeyser:Well I wasn't, um, I couldn't, I mean financially it was not the thing to do, but mentally I knew that I had to not put myself in harm's way. Right. And, um, I always, it also had advertising to go back to occasionally. Right. So, um, you know, by, I would say, so I continued to work. I'd pick up an episode here, um, less staff drops available, but I just kind of eked out a living. It wasn't the trajectory that I'd started on. Right. And I was okay with that.Michael Jamin:Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michael jamin.com/watchlist.Michael Jamin:Basically this is the, the interesting part, which I don't really talk about a lot on anything is the economics of really being a writer. Because I don't know, we don't just talk about it, but cuz we were saying, you know, you kind of, you kind of, you were calling the shots. You're saying, this is what I'm willing to do. I don't want, I'll work this much, I don't wanna work that much because it's not , it's not good for me, my mental health. And I get that. Um, but so then to kind of to, you know, had to make, to make ends meet, you also have this other project that you've been working on and I wanna talk about that.Dawn DeKeyser:Yes. So I think we, uh, we were talking about 2000 rehab, excellent. Mm-hmm. very helpful. And so it was on the heels of that that I was starting to piece together what I wanted my life to look like, which was not working 18 hours a day with difficult people. Yeah. So I would, I would take my jobs for shorter amounts of time. Like if a, if a show had an order for 22, I said I'll work on the first 13. Right. And then I would generally go to Texas or New York and then just repair in between shows. And it, financially it was not a strong way to do it. But, um, I wanted to circle back a little bit on the, the rehab stuff. Um, you had asked at one point about did I, was I an AA and I wanna say that that never worked for me.Dawn DeKeyser:And there was this book a few years back called Quit Like A Woman. And it's about, it was by H Whitaker and it's about smart recovery. And one of the things that just made so much sense to me was that AA is a AAL system. And one of the first things that they ask you to do is give, give away your power. And the thing is, we women are rendered powerless in so many situations already. Why the fuck would I wanna go into a meeting and, and not have any agency over myself and my decisions? So that's a part of smart recovery and I love it. I think it's reallyMichael Jamin:Do do you meet as as often as, as somebody you know, in, in the group or, you know?Dawn DeKeyser:No, and the thing about it is, um, I'm sort of a social drinker. I don't have an issue with that anymore. And it's really about like, if you have a drink, you don't start at day one. You just, you figure out if you wanna manage your use of anything or, um, if you don't want to . Right. And, and it's just, um, it's just less, um, punishing Right. Say so. Um, and I know that, you know, we're writers, we're tender souls and we feel a lot. And I just wanted to get sort of, get that out there. That's something that's really helped and resonated withMichael Jamin:Viola Davis said something like that, you know, obviously not a writer but an actor, but she said, I guess I can't remember what it was about, but she's basically saying someone criticized her for having thin skin. And she goes, I'm supposed to have thin skin. That's, I'm an artist. Like I, you know, I'm not supposed to have thick skin . I'm supposed to feel things and express things. YouDawn DeKeyser:Know? That's right. That's right. I mean, that's what we do. We do. And um, we feel things and then we express them and we write them and we get it out there and people get it. They understand that. Um, you can't be general in really good writing. You gotta be specific.Michael Jamin:Right, Exactly. Specific. Yes. Yeah. Well tell but tell me about your summit.Dawn DeKeyser:Okay, so sumMichael Jamin:It up.Dawn DeKeyser:Sum it up. Um, one, sum it up. One of the things we don't talk about as writers is all that dead air, that space between gigs or the fact that the seasons are shorter now, and there's the writing staffs are smaller and the industry expands and contracts and the summit called writers making money. Lose the ego, tap into your talent and bring cash in during these weird ass apocalyptic times. I'm said that earlier. And, um, it's really about what are you doing for passive income investing? How are you keeping the lights on mm-hmm. and these, So I talk to money experts and mindset coaches and, um, we talk about things like cash machines, which is how do you bring in a little bit just in passive income? It's not hard. Um, if you have lazy assets, like my IRA's been sitting there doing nothing for a long time. And, um, we talked about what types of entities as a creative person you need to set up and forget it'll run on its own without you. But just getting all of that in place. And so, uh, in 2020 my life imploded mm-hmm. . And after that, and I'll just say a little bit like in 2020 my house flooded and I lost about 50 years worth of furniture, clothing, art, stuff like that. And then my husband, um, emailed me d divorce papers.Michael Jamin:Right. And then it gets worse,Dawn DeKeyser:And then it gets worse. And then covid hit. And then while the house was being torn apart with asbestos, tenting, my daughter and I moved into one corner of the house during, while she was in virtual school, I lost my dream job. I lost the house. And then we just decided to go and spend time in Woodstock, New York with friends, which was good. And then we came back in November and about that Thanksgiving, my husband passed away. Right. So that was very hard. And, um, I spent after, you know, we went through the grieving process and then after we , just after we got that done, after we were cured of that , I started into just figuring out again, what do I want my life to look like in my career? And I still wanna write. And so I started taking business classes, business coaching, leadership training, um, and talking to money experts and just like, what, how am I setting myself up for generational wealth? Which is something that I didn't look ahead, I didn't look to, excuse me. And then my daughter got into college, which was amazing, and she's in New York now. She's at the number one design school in the country, Parsons. And we said yes. And then I looked at the, how much it was gonna cost and out. Oh. And also in 2020, all my money kind of evaporated, unbeknownst to me. So I was really starting from scratch with no home address. Right. And, um,Michael Jamin:What do you mean your money evaporated? What hap what do you mean?Dawn DeKeyser:Well, um, my husband was, um, he was not, well, he was very troubled and very ill. And that kind of went with him. SoMichael Jamin:He, Okay. So he learned,Dawn DeKeyser:He found out that we were a few hundred thousand in debt. So again, all that doesn't matter, it's just money. So we find out that Ava's college is 80,000 Right. Thinking, you know what, we're gonna do this. We'll just figure out a way. So for the last 18 months, I have been figuring out ways to set our lives up and start bringing in money in a different way outside of tv, outside of just writing as a creative person. And it's working and I wanna, and I just want people to know that there's, IMichael Jamin:Share that that's important cuz you know, creative people, like, we don't go into this profession, at least I don't think, you know, we don't go into the special to become middle managers. We don't go to become to know about money because like, you know, I think that's part of, also, I'm not excusing any of the bad behavior in TV shows, but no one becomes a writer because they wanna manage people. They go because they just wanna goof off and be creative and do whatever and that. But the problem is that can, that can affect people, other people working underneath you, you know?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah, for sure. You know that as a showrunner. Yeah. And you work up through the ranks because of your writing talent and then you're suddenly in an administrative position, Right. As a showrunner, right? Yeah.Michael Jamin:Yeah. It's like, I don't, I didn't want, I don't wanna be the boss, I just wanna be a writer. But, but this is how it is now. Now you have to manage people. So anyway, so, but, but so that's why I think what you're talking about in your summit is important. So Yeah. Tell us more about it. Yeah.Dawn DeKeyser:So I think it's really important because we are, this is gonna talk about, um, using your left brain in a right brain industry mm-hmm. . And it's not that hard. It's not that scary. I talked to this one woman who's known for her millionaire maker series, and I started working with her this summers. Like, what am I, I'm doing everything wrong. I know that, and I've made money and I've spent it, and I would kind of like to not do that anymore. And her team is, you know, they're talking about how to get me set up and any of their other clients and it's been just a complete game changer. Right. Like, it just, um, and she's very intense and very complex in all of the knowledge that she has. She's not a Susie Orman or Dave Ramsey where they talk about saving mm-hmm. and don't have that latte in the morning.Dawn DeKeyser:And she says, Oh, you know, fuck all that live. You're like, make money and do the right thing with it because we just aren't ever aware of what to do. Like lazy assets. My IRA sitting there, and now I'm going to instead take some of that out and put it into a, an investing group that will, will put money into apartment buildings and real estate. And y'all who have houses out here are, you know, that is great, but it's not a financial strategy. Mm-hmm. . And anyway, so I was excited about learning all of this, especially on the heels of having to reconfigure my whole life. And I just wanna get it out there.Michael Jamin:Yeah. You had, you did a giant reset. A giant reset. Yeah. Very overwhelming. I I'm getting nervous just thinking about what you did .Dawn DeKeyser:It was, um, it was weird. It was, yeah. It was really hard. And, um, yeah, I am grateful. Like I'm grateful for my life. There's one of two ways you can go when tragedy happens. And that is, you can stay in it and think of the all the other bad things that are right around the corner mm-hmm. or, um, you can pick yourself up and get going in a completely different way. That's the, that was the, the real impetus for me is like, I wanna do things differently and Oh, and there was something you said about h hustling. Yes. Yes. Um, so I'm, I'm now putting questions out there and answering them and not even giving you any air time . Like, we all hustle, we all get that, get the work done. One thing that I wanted to do in this new reset was to not hustle as much what I do. I'm working a lot, but at home on my own schedule. And if it feels like it's getting stressful or sense of urgency, I take a nap. Right. I just slow down and I wanna do it in a more peaceful way.Michael Jamin:Right. That's so interesting. And so people can learn more about your, the summit@dawntokaiser.comDawn DeKeyser:Slash writers making moneyMichael Jamin:Back slash writers making money. And so then when is the next one?Dawn DeKeyser:It's going to be October 17th through the 19th. So for three days we have, Oh, sorry. For three days we have nine speakers. Right. And each day we'll talk like one, I talk to an actress who is now writing this really fabulous, um, children's book series. She loves that. She's like, I still act, but here's something that fills my heart. Right. Um, talking to Laura Lang Meyer, who's intense, she's still intense. Um, and she is all, she's, she talks about money in a way of let's get everything. Let's not have your bookkeeper talk to your cpa, talk to your business manager. She's like, We just do everything and, and all in one place, which is what I,Michael Jamin:And we should mention, this is all free for people who want to join the summit. Right. It'sDawn DeKeyser:All free. It's free, free, free. So you just sign up, give me your email and your name, and you'll get access to all of that.Michael Jamin:Right. Right. Yeah. And then, but then you and you also have a consulting business, a script consultingDawn DeKeyser:Business. I do. So all that's gonna launch to, I am all about putting everything off to the last minute. So that launches next week, and that'll be on my dawn de kaiser.com website. I'll do, I'll be doing script consulting, um, coaching for creatives and the writer's room. We're going be, we'll meet once a once a weekMichael Jamin:About,Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. We'll do guest speakers and q and a and then writing sprints.Michael Jamin:Once a writing sprintDawn DeKeyser:That is kind of a Pomodoro style I put on a timer and heads, pencils up, heads down.Michael Jamin:Oh, okay. And then you give a little short assignment. PeopleDawn DeKeyser:Not even, you know, I'll say, set your intention at the very beginning of what you wanna accomplish in the next 25 minute sprint. Okay. And, um, and we just do check in. It helps to get online or, you know, to check in with other people. Your Facebook group is really going strong and people are finding each other there. Mm-hmm. . And that's been really helpful for them.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. You got a lot going on.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. Um,Michael Jamin:Now I wanna talk about when you're, when you're on a a show, like what's, what's your experience like working with new young writers and and what do you see? Dos and don'ts?Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. I see the ones that really, that just grab my heart are the ones who try really hard. Mm-hmm. , they are like, to a cringy point, like I love that. I was working on a pilot and this one young writer came in, she was gi given a shot and she had her script in a big binder, three reading binder with all of her color coordinated post-it notes. Mm-hmm. that. And, and I just thought, she's after my own heart. Like I, that's She was prepared. She was prepared. That's right.Michael Jamin:Because sometimes new young writers, they'll look at the boss and because the boss very often isn't really prepared because, you know, they got a million things going on. Or even some of the upper level writers are kind of play it loose. But, uh, and so some of 'em think, well, if the boss has got his feet up on the, or her feet up on the desk, so could so can I, I'll just do what the boss is doing. . But you're not the boss. YouDawn DeKeyser:Know, you have not earned the right to put your feet up on the table yet.Michael Jamin:Right. So you, But when you see people come in prepared, uh, you know, I like that. I like, sometimes they'll, like, they'll say, I have a pitch. I'm like, Oh good. I, they'll say like, I have five ideas. Well let's hear 'em. I don't have any ideas.Dawn DeKeyser:That's right. . That's right. Yeah. It's just, it's just sort of, um, you know, not taking it personally mm-hmm. . And uh, I see a lot of writers who litigate their script. Mm-hmm. ,Michael Jamin:They overstep. Right.Dawn DeKeyser:They do. And they just argue for the, they don't need to argue. Mm-hmm. , they, their work is on the page. It either is working or it's not. And you are in a room with professionals who will tell you mm-hmm. and you don't need to explain to them what you put in the script and why, because they don't care. It's not working. Right. Right. So yeah. It is that losing the ego part of it.Michael Jamin:Yeah. It's, it's hard for people to, it's hard for young writers to accept that. Um, and they don't see it yet. And then as you get older, and then sometimes I feel like, ah, I, I'm like, crouchy the old guy. Um, but I, I don't, I don't think so. I think like you just, you have the experience. It's like, I don't wanna argue with you. I, you know, I know from experience that this is how, this is how it's gotta go. This is what this is. What you presented is not gonna work. I just know. I just know that, youDawn DeKeyser:Know. Yeah. You've, you've done your time.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Um, and do you feel, But how do you, and I think I I I, we talked about this a little bit. How, how do you think people are breaking in today?Dawn DeKeyser:Oh, that's right. I said I do not know. I have no idea. Yeah. I have no idea. Um, what you and Rob Cohen talked about was just coming in from all different angles. Like mine was a winding road getting here. And um, some of it worked, some of it didn't. But, um, that, yeah. It's like no one is going to give you a career. They will give you a shot. Right. And that's why your work has to be outstanding. And I say, not good, not great. Outstanding. And you'll get work. You know, I, I just, um, and there are so many,Michael Jamin:Cause some people think, well, it's good enough or it's better than what the garbage that I see on tv. And they think, well, you know, Okay, okay. Maybe it is, but it's, you know, that's not good enoughDawn DeKeyser:That, But people have been saying that since I started in tv. It's like, Oh, it's better than what's on the air. No, it's not .Michael Jamin:No,Dawn DeKeyser:No. You, you are competing with a room of 12 professional writers who have each other to bounce it off of. And there's a reason that they write all of that. It may not end up great. That may be for all these reasons that you have no access to, which is network notes or, um,Michael Jamin:Acting notes. The actor you can get it from. Yeah. Um, there's a lot of reasons even, you know, I haven't really talked about this a lot, but even writing a bad television show is hard. Even writing bad TV is hard, You know,Dawn DeKeyser:, it's so hard. I worked on this one show that was a drama but just inadvertently a comedy. It was so terrible. And I think we got written up in the Hollywood Reporter for it just being so campy. We weren't going for campy, we were just trying , We're just, just trying to get the scripts to the actors.Michael Jamin:Right. How funny. Do and, and do you find, I think we, we've talked, I don't remember we mentioned this, but do you find working cuz you kind of transitioned to from comedy sitcom to DRM or, and even drama, like, um, and I think you were talking about even more chill. Like what? Cause I hadn't worked in drama, really. So what are the differences in the writing room, the writers' room forDawn DeKeyser:That? Yeah. It's a, it's a's a huge difference. So, um, 2017 Me Too movement mm-hmm. , um, that was a game changer for people like me who had been dragged around a few rough corners. And, um, it did change the, it changed the personality of a lot of writers' rooms. As, as you know, for me, um, comedy was always kind of a full contact sport. Mm-hmm. , you'd be in the room with comedians, performers, writers, and there would be jumping up and down and just, it was a lot of performance. And so Right.Michael Jamin:Because you gotta sell that joke.Dawn DeKeyser:You gotta sell it. Right. You gotta sell it. No one else is gonna sell it. Um, so I, my first job in drama was Ugly Betty, but they had, half of the staff was comedy writers, which hadn't been done a lot or before. Right. So what I noticed was that the drama writers were so writerly and they were so not worried about selling the act break and getting the big joke out on a beat or a scene. And it was, it was so great. It was so great to talk about the story and not about not worry about how you're gonna sell the joke for me. Right. I, I liked that part of it. And then I went on to be in other drama rooms that were just very respectful.Michael Jamin:And how did you make that transition? You had basic, cuz it's not like you could just jump from comedy writer to drama. You ba you're kind of starting overDawn DeKeyser:Kinda, you know, I didn't look at it that way. I will say that drama writers don't tend to become comedy writers.Michael Jamin:Right. Right. It's, it's a one, right? You, if you can write comedy, you could probably write drama, but not necessarily the other way around. Right.Dawn DeKeyser:Right. I mean, it's just a whole different muscle. Um, I don't know. I think I got this shit kicked out of me in comedy, so I thought, I wanna be . I'm now more serious.Michael Jamin:But now you started writing sample, you had to write samples. You gotta start as if you'd never done ob cause you'd never done it before. You had start writing drama samples.Dawn DeKeyser:That's right. And I found that the agents did not want to marketing me that way. You know, I've already established myself and, and they would then have to hand me over to a different set of agents.Michael Jamin:That's interesting. Right? Cause I talk about this. Well, so many people think that soon as I get an agent, how do I get an agent? They say this all the time. How do I get an agent as if that's gonna help at all? You know, that's not gonna change your life. Once you've, you know, once even when you become at your level, you know you're in charge,Dawn DeKeyser:Right? Yeah, absolutely. And I didn't get an agent until I was, I'd won some script writing contests. I was in the Disney Writer's Fellowship. I was writing all those scripts on one of their shows, and I still couldn't get an agent. StillMichael Jamin:Couldn't get an agent. Yeah.Dawn DeKeyser:And so I called, I contacted CAA and uta and they're like, Yeah, no, we're very interested. And no one would pull the trigger. So I called CAA back and said, Yeah, I'm going into UTA this afternoon. And that's when I got the offer. And then I called uta. I said, Yeah, I'm gonna go on, go ahead and go to CAA this afternoon.Michael Jamin:And Wow. So you were just bluffing? Yeah. Wow. Interesting. Yeah, we, for a while when we, um, God, where were we? I think we were at, uh, Endeavor. Mm-hmm. . And we weren't getting much. Um, we, I guess we weren't getting to kind of help the support we needed then as soon as, but as soon as we threatened to, to go to uta mm-hmm. , like everyone was called suddenly, suddenly they wanted to talk to us. .Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. Yeah. That'll get them sitting up straight. Yeah.Michael Jamin: good for you. That's hard. That's, that's, uh, gutsy. But, okay. So then, um, but in terms of breaking stories, it, is it kind of the same on a, on a drama forDawn DeKeyser:Yeah. It's kind of the same. Instead of going out on a big blow, you go out on a big cliff hanger. Right. AndMichael Jamin:A pregnant moment.Dawn DeKeyser:What?Michael Jamin:That's, that's what I was told. It's called, It's, it's a pregnant, a pregnant moment. Like, OhDawn DeKeyser:Yes, that's right. Yes. What next? Yeah, and I, I just really liked it. I had this lovely experience working with Martha Williamson, who created Touch by an Angel. Mm-hmm. . And she's one of like the top Christian women in the country. And she was interviewed on 60 Minutes and she had quite a big career. And I had never been in a respectful writer's room before. And so I was like, Oh, we can't say fuck. And they, the two other guys, it was just like four of us. Mm-hmm. said, Oh, no, no, no. And so I thought, okay, no, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna give it a go , andMichael Jamin:I'm gonna hold my tongue when I don't have to say be crashed. Weird.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. I'm not gonna be disgusting. So, um, it was a really great experience. Right. That's interesting. And yeah. And the other, the dramas that I've done, and then, and then things sort of went, like I was able to write, um, episodes of Hallmark shows that's, I call that the women, the women writers ghetto. Um, cause we all, we all sort of end up there doing our cozy mysteries, which, um,Michael Jamin:It used to be, I guess children's shows, but I guess now you're saying for it's, it's home, It's, uh,Dawn DeKeyser:Hallmark has always been the family network. Yeah.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Dawn DeKeyser:Family. Family.Michael Jamin:But when you develop, are you develop on your own? Are you, are you mostly doing comedy or drama?Dawn DeKeyser:Um, comedy, No, I would say both. And I'm not developing a lot. I have had this one idea that I love so much that I'm afraid to write it. I just, I just can't seem to do it.Michael Jamin:Why? Why?Dawn DeKeyser:Because I want it to be really good.Michael Jamin:Well, why don't you make, Write it as a book then?Dawn DeKeyser:No, it's a great series.Michael Jamin:Yeah. But if you sell it as a book, then, then you can turn it as a TV show. No.Dawn DeKeyser:Mm. Book writing. That's hard.Michael Jamin:Book writing. What would I know?Dawn DeKeyser:What writingMichael Jamin:? What do you mean book writing? ?Dawn DeKeyser:What is this book thing you talk about?Michael Jamin:Um, so interesting. But, okay, so I wanna make sure everyone knows more about, I guess I, when we talked about it, I wanna make sure before we sign off, but everyone knows more about how they can get in touch with you, how they can find you and learn more about your summit and your, your consulting services and all that.Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. So that's all coming out next week and maybe by the time this runs, Yeah, probably it's, yeah, Hope. Um, Instagram @dawndekeyserwrites TikTok @dawndekeyserwrites website DawnDeKeyser.com. And I will tell you, you know, you use your name and all of your stuff. I would, I just was so uncomfortable doing that. I was calling it everything else, but what I am doing. So now it's just my name.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I know. I was, I was a little in the beginning. I was, uh, you know, it was uncomfortable cuz writers don't, we're not actors. We're behind the scene. It's, it's weird for us to, uh, promote ourselves this way. That's not what we do. We're not act, That's what the actors we write for somebody else put them in front. So that was a hurdle for me to, I had to get over, you know?Dawn DeKeyser:How did you get over it?Michael Jamin:Um, you know, I I I'm always reminded of the Oscar Wild. There's a wonderful qu I think he said, but I'm not sure cause I can find it again. But he said you'd worry, I think he said you'd worry less about what other people thought. Think about you if you realized how little they did. Which works on two levels, which means they already think you're garbage. So what are you worried about? Or they're just, they're just thinking about themselves. And so, yeah, I just, at some point I was like, I screw it. If people wanna judge me, let, let them, they're, they're gonna forget about me anyway. I'm not on anyone's, you know, why does no one's staying up late to think about me .Dawn DeKeyser:Right, right. That's good to know. I mean, that's, that is liberating.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I, I, I do actually, I've thought about it a lot and especially as a writer, cuz I started, you know, writing more like personal essays, more stuff about my life. And, um, and then I kind of realized that there's like a paradox about judge being about judgment and that, cause I, you know, I, I did this show and then I didn't want people to think like, my biggest fear would be to perform my work and have people think, Oh, this guy's not a good writer. You know? And to be a good writer, you have to expose yourself. Yeah. And that's the paradox. So if I don't want people to judge me, I have to put my, allow people to judge me. I have to make myself vulnerable so that they might judge me ironically. And if you do that, they ironically won't judge you. You know,Dawn DeKeyser:On your website you talk about vulnerable, being vulnerable. Yeah,Michael Jamin:Yeah,Dawn DeKeyser:Yeah. It's hard. It's hard because that's exactly right. You put your yourself out there, your heart and it can hurt.Michael Jamin:But to me, the bigger pain is having someone say, Oh, you can't write . So like, that would hurt harder . So I'd rather just ex be vulnerable. And that people Wow. Cuz people walk away, they go, Wow, how'd you do that? That was pretty brave. I'm like, whew. No, it would've been brave if I gone up there with my less than adequate work then, you kno

Escaping prep for the MCATS by distressing at the gym led these two future doctors to a bonded friendship. Now Shawn is pursuing Podiatry, and Murad is about to begin medical school. They sat down with MDF Instruments to talk medicine and how they both came from other countries that had limited access to care. Healthcare is a human right. They are paving the way for the future and bringing change with them. IG: @shawnankles IG: @muradrazzak_11 IG: @mdfinstruments

Check it Parts. We got our first doctor to ever join the dojo in a non professional way. Showing off his comical prowess he vows to stand by the oath he took when he passed the MCats medical exam. There's way to much I really shouldn't say regarding his path to righteousness in society. So why don't you just enter the dojo and enjoy this DR. Dandruff Mic-Check Bonus and get ready for episode #101...coming soon... WhatUpPatna.com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/whatuppatna/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/whatuppatna/support

Story of failure: Paying a professional to plug in a dishwasher.Adam Broussard is a husband and father along with being a practicing pediatric anaesthesiologist. He is the host of the Dads Before Doctors podcast and is also an investor in businesses and real estate. In today's episode, Adam talks about:- the story of how he found his career path- not getting into med school the first try- why he started the Dads Before Doctors podcast- talking about things that aren't talked about- why it's hard to talk about certain things as doctors- story of his dad working at Winn Dixie- attending a Tony Robbins event- how books are important mentors for him- why he and his fellows are still close- how small things that happen change the course of your life- thoughts of being rejected and timing of receiving the rejection- story of rehabbing a house and having a bad contractor that didn't finish- why moving forward is the only way- giving grace to his 2-year old son and himself- multiple people in the same situation with different outlooks- why it's easy to work when life get's hardLet's go! ----Dads Before Doctors Podcastwww.dadsbeforedoctors.comDads Before Doctors - FacebookDads Before Doctors - Instagramadam@dadsbeforedoctors.com----www.professional-failure.com

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/so-you-want-to-run-a-microgrants I. Medical training is a wild ride. You do four years of undergrad in some bio subject, ace your MCATs, think you're pretty hot stuff. Then you do your med school preclinicals, study umpteen hours a day, ace your shelf exams, and it seems like you're pretty much there. Then you start your clinical rotations, get a real patient in front of you, and you realize - oh god, I know absolutely nothing about medicine. This is also how I felt about running a grants program. I support effective altruism, a vast worldwide movement focused on trying to pick good charities. Sometimes I go to their conferences, where they give lectures about how to pick good charities. Or I read their online forum, where people write posts about how to pick good charities. I've been to effective altruist meetups, where we all come together and talk about good charity picking. So I felt like, maybe, I don't know, I probably knew some stuff about how to pick good charities. And then I solicited grant proposals, and I got stuff like this: A. $60K to run simulations checking if some chemicals were promising antibiotics. B. $60K for a professor to study the factors influencing cross-cultural gender norms C. $50K to put climate-related measures on the ballot in a bunch of states. D. $30K to research a solution for African Swine Fever and pitch it to Uganda E. $40K to replicate psych studies and improve incentives in social science Which of these is the most important?

The Pre-Med Episode! FREE PRE-MED GUIDEBOOK IN SHOW NOTESNaka is joined by Dr. Sahil Mehta, the founder of MedSchoolCoach, to discuss the process and steps involved in the pre-med journey to becoming a doctor! Discussions about Direct Medical (BS/MD) programs, SATs, MCATs, and internships are discussed as they relate to the applications for getting into (and making the most out of) your dream school.Dr. Mehta is a practicing Interventional Radiologist specializing in minimally invasive endovascular and percutaneous procedures in order to eliminate cancer, manage pain, stop life-threatening bleeding, and more.Sahil has been involved in admissions consulting and tutoring for years. As the founder of MedSchoolCoach, he has a hand in thousands of medical school applications. His experience helping applicants of all types navigate the admissions process is unparalleled.SHOW NOTESPRE-MED JOURNEY GUIDEBOOK https://info.medschoolcoach.com/pre-med-journeywww.medschoolcoach.comFree TestTakers SAT Preview @ prepepdpodcast.com

Welcome back to America's leading higher education podcast, The EdUp Experience! In this episode, your guest is Jeff Elliott, COO, UWorld. Jeff talks about how UWorld makes the really hard stuff easy to understand. They reduce complexity in explanations and delivery to benefit students, specifically to help them succeed on their high-stakes exams. Their content experts are accomplished doctors, nurses, business professionals, and educators, and they believe it's their duty to create the highest quality educational content on the market. Jeff is amazing, so tune in! UWorld is an online tool that helps students prepare for their high stakes exams, med school, nursing school, Physician asst testing, MCATs, college prep MDT build their own algorithms move students through content track pass rates in all areas, getting students to understand WHY they need to know information Active learning is critical - the active process of learning something is the most powerful for memory and knowledge saturation Faculty learning platform. Thank you so much for tuning in. Join us on the next episode for your time to EdUp! Connect with your hosts - Elvin Freytes, Elizabeth Leiba, & Dr. Joe Sallustio ● If you want to get involved, leave us a comment or rate us on your preferred listening platform! ● Join your EdUp community at The EdUp Experience! ● Follow us on Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube Thank you for listening! We make education your business!

This week, we're celebrating 450 episodes! James took the MCAT 5xs and applied 4xs, and got 3 acceptances! How did he overcome pressure and obstacles? Listen!

What factors should you consider when deciding how to prepare for the MCAT? [Show summary] Our guest today has been providing MCAT prep for just under 30 years and he's going to share his best MCAT prep advice with you!  The Berkeley Review's CEO, Todd Bennett, shares his best MCAT prep advice [Show notes] Our guest today is Todd Bennett, whom I met many, many years ago. He is the CEO of and an MCAT instructor at The Berkeley Review, which he co-founded in 1992. Todd, welcome to Admissions Straight Talk! How did you get involved in MCAT prep many moons ago? [1:22] So much of life is serendipity. So, way back in 1988, I had a job teaching organic chemistry as an adjunct lecturer at UC Irvine. And one summer there was nothing to teach and realizing that, hey, I need money for rent, I went to the job listing on campus. And there was an interesting offer tutoring chemistry and physics to postbac students trying to get into med school, a bridge program through Dave Hacker and Charles Gipson. I signed up for it and fell in love with it - greatest teaching job in the world; motivated students, smart, dedicated, and best of all from a teaching standpoint, no grading. You were purely on their side in working their way through it. So that summer I wrote up notes and practice questions and put together a pretty good booklet, and without even noticing it, it became kind of an underground sensation around UC Irvine and then Southern California. And somebody in San Diego got wind of it, who ran an SAT company and said, "Hey, what do you think about doing MCAT?" And so, we started something called Hyper Learning at the time. It ends up that the people I was with, honestly, I don't think one of them had any interest other than making a quick company, selling it, another quick company, and selling it. And so, it was on the selling block immediately and I thought, "No, no, I like what I'm doing. I don't want to switch." And so in 1992 we started The Berkeley Review, grabbed one of the bio teachers, a physics teacher I knew, and just went for it. Amazingly, it just shot off like wildfire. I mean, at the time it was just really needed. Do you want to bring us up to date a little bit in terms of what's been happening with The Berkeley Review? [3:03] We change with each test. So since we started, there've been three changes in the test, and each one's brought a new challenge. I mean, I know this is probably blasphemous to say, because it's stressful for a lot of people, but the MCATs are a really well-written and well thought-out test. You can reason your way through it, and it really does test pertinent skills in analyzing data material and getting you to work well with things you maybe don't familiarize with at first. And in time you realize, "Hey, I get this. This is simple.” We continue to do classes. COVID forced us to go online. We were very antiquated for many years and got up to speed, and I realized our fear of going online had a lot to do with losing the personal touch. Knowing each person individually has been key.  And one of the biggest godsends of going online that I never thought of in a million years, it caters to the shy student. The student can now type in a question in a private chat. I have one particular student in mind who, when we were live up until last March 2020, she never asked a question in class. She'd come up after class, wait until everybody left and she'd ask a few questions. All of a sudden in the chatbox, she was typing like a stenographer. It was awesome. She came out of her shell, and I realized this is a great medium for certain students and so, I've fallen in love with online teaching. A year and a half ago, if you were to ask me, I would have never, ever thought that would happen, so it's kind of where we're at today. And basically at this point then, anybody anywhere in the United States to be sure, and maybe even in the world, could take a class from The Berkeley Review,

Dr. Shirag Shemmassian, the founder of Shemmassian Academic Consulting, talks about the four MCAT sections, studying for the MCAT, and preparing for passage-based questions.   [01:03] Dr. Shemmassian's Journey into the Academic Consulting Space [05:56] Breakdown of the Four MCAT Sections [08:20] How to Study for Passage-Based Questions [12:28] How to Prepare for MCAT CARS [17:20] Do's and Don'ts When Preparing for CARS [20:14] How to Tell if You're Ready for the MCAT [25:36] Benefits of Simulating the MCAT Test Day [29:30] The Role of MCATs in Medical School Admissions [36:32] What is a Good MCAT Score? [39:38] Will the MCAT Ever Become a Pass/Fail Exam?   Check out the Shemmassian Consulting website: https://www.shemmassianconsulting.com/   Full show notes

Matt is from Cedar Rapids, Iowa and was part of the 2014 recruiting class for the Iowa Hawkeyes. With his 6'8 frame and exceptional mental ability to understand the game and schemes, Matt found his way on to the field early in Iowa City as a redshirt freshman D-lineman. After 4 years of playing time in the Black and Gold Matt now finds himself as part of the Detroit Lions in the NFL, but on the opposite side of the ball. Making a transition that is rarely made from college to pro has left Matt with quite the story to tell about learning Offensive Tackle, adding more weight to his already large frame, a custom training plan to morph his athleticism and movement to that of the O-line, and a fight to make the 53 man team. We talk about all of that including, what it was like to be excelling off the field as well as he was passing the MCATs, pursuing medical school, getting married, and a whole lot more. We also hear what its like to love trading cards and now have one of himself, what room is more fun to be a part of between the lions O-line and the Hawks D-line, How he approaches the off season, and more! We hope you enjoy!

  “Giving yourself room to breathe, and at the same time that pressure to perform, perform, perform, was alleviated tremendously. So I think it's just finding those little hacks that make a big, big difference.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD   It’s understandable that you strive for perfection in your work life, but is it spilling over into your personal life too?   In today’s episode, Coaches Gabriella and Jill sit down to discuss perfectionism. You’ll hear why perfectionism can be so harmful, and different ways to combat this trait.    Let’s just go ahead and say it, perfection is unattainable, and trying to reach it can cause undue stress and anxiety. So let’s give ourselves a break and find the areas of our lives where 50-80% is enough, so that we can have the energy to put in more effort in the areas where lives depend on it.        Excerpts from the show:   “It’s stressful. The need to get that A+ all the time, get that letter of recommendation, get into a reputable residency program, pass the boards, etc. etc., get more letters of recommendation etc. Depending on your ambition and your aspirations and where you want to go, especially if you’re on an academic track, publishing, researching, etc. etc. It's a lot of pressure 24/7. And that pressure really starts early. It starts in undergrad when you're thinking about getting into med school and what you need to get the grades to get through the MCATs etc. etc. So there's not only that drive but it's accepted that somehow you have to be perfect and there's a lot of self judgment that goes around if you don't quite make the mark in your own estimation. It's not even in somebody else's. It's in your own estimation. After a while it becomes so automatic that it's something that becomes part of you.  I was reading an article from a psychologist who was talking about a university student saying that they worked really, really hard to get that A+, and they wanted to get that A+ and they got it. And then at the end, they said, ‘Well if it was really mine to have, I shouldn't have had to work so hard for it.’  Instead of saying, ‘Yeah I got my A+!’  So that need to be perfect prevents yourself from even celebrating the wins.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD     “I think it is so detrimental. Psychological research has shown that this is associated with depression, with suicidal ideations, and anxiety, this chasing chasing chasing. Chasing what exactly? So this becomes a given particularly in physicians. You're taking care of other people. You don't want to make mistakes. You want to make sure you get it right because somebody's life could be at risk. So it's trying to find that balance to say, ‘You know what, 80% is enough,’ and to get to that conclusion. To get to that ‘80% is good enough,’ that takes some work. Personally, it was years of being able to undo that habit. Of being able to say, ‘No, I don't have to be perfect, it has to be good.’ Because I'm not the only one involved in that person's care. I'm not the only one who has ideas and opinions and thoughts about that person's care. Or about how I even run my own life, because that spills over into personal life as well, (thinking,) ‘Everything has to be done right and I have to take care of everything.’ So to be able to say, ‘No, let me enlist people because I can’t take care of everything. I don't have all the ideas. Other people have other expertise that I can lean on.’ That was a big lesson for me personally as a physician.” -Coach Gabriella Dennery MD     “I had a beautiful experience of witnessing an insight for a physician several years ago, who was in her 50s and very burned out, and really struggling with that at that point in her career. Feeling like, ‘What have I done all this for? I'm so exhausted, I don't care like I used to,’ and all the things that show up in burnout. Through our conversations all of a sudden one day her eyes opened really wide and she actually started weeping and she said, ‘This is the first time in my whole life since I can remember, (since) when I was trying to get straight A's in sixth grade because I wanted to be a doctor someday, that I realized that I can want to do certain aspects of my life at a very high level of achievement, like taking care of the patient, like putting the extra in to make sure that I'm doing everything I can to take care of them. But I don't need to be at 100% in most other parts of my life.’  She said, ‘I know it sounds crazy but it just didn't dawn on me.’ It's like, ok, if I'm giving away all the crap that's loaded up in my garage, I don't need to find the perfect place to take every box, or if I need to feed my family, I don't need to have the perfect mix of macro nutrients. Because she started to realize that level of trying to pressurize herself with perfection in every other aspect was not allowing her to do the great job that she wanted to do in the one place where it mattered most.” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer   “The thing I would say most importantly to everybody listening is, can you get more nuanced? Less of that distorted ‘all or nothing’ thinking. ‘Either I do it at 100 or I don't do it at all.’ Can you be more nuanced, and really be curious about your own life, and say, what are the areas where you're throwing in a lot more effort? If 51% is good enough then the amount of time you spend to get up to 100% is incrementally and exponentially a lot higher. How can you play with that?” -Master Certified Coach, Jill Farmer   Get One-on-One Coaching with Coach Gabriella Dennery MD Get One-on-One Coaching with Master-Certified Coach Jill Farmer   DocWorking believes the time has come to prioritize the health and wellness of physicians. Professional coaching is transformational. Elite athletes, award-winning actors and top-performing executives all know this, which is why they embrace coaching to achieve such extraordinary success. Leading corporations also know this, which is why they encourage coaching for employees at every level. Smart leaders leverage the power of coaching to achieve outcomes that are meaningful, measurable, and attainable. Our Coaches Will Show You How!   We have exciting news! Our live course, STAT: Quick Wins to Get Your Life Back is coming soon! Life is too short to be stretched so thin. Do you want more time to focus on what matters most to you? Our power packed plan fits easily into your busy day! Coaches Gabriella and Jill have taken all their best strategies from coaching hundreds of physicians over multiple years and folded them into one efficient course. You can easily practice these bite-sized strategies on your timeline: anytime, anywhere. Are you ready to invest in yourself, reclaim your time and minimize stress? Click here!    To learn more about DocWorking, visit us here!   Are you a physician who would like to tell your story? Please email Amanda, our producer at Amanda@docworking.com to apply.   And if you like our podcast and would like to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review, we would be extremely grateful!   We’re everywhere you like to get your podcasts! Apple iTunes, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google, Pandora, PlayerFM, ListenNotes, Amazon, YouTube, Podbean   Some links in our blogs and show notes are affiliate links, and purchases made via those links may result in small payments to DW. These help toward our production costs. Thank you for supporting DocWorking: The Whole Physician Podcast!   Occasionally, we discuss financial and legal topics. We are not financial or legal professionals. Please consult a licensed professional for financial or legal advice regarding your specific situation.   Podcast produced by: Amanda Taran

The LSAT probably isn't the first standardized test to play a role in determining your academic future. From SATs to ACTs to MCATs and GREs, standardized testing is a huge part of the U.S. education system and has been for a long time. But should it be? Does it have to be? And will the COVID-19 pandemic lead to a societal shift away from standardized testing? In this episode, Branden & Jelena branch out beyond the LSAT to talk about . . . How undergraduate programs moved away from standardized testing during the pandemic and why Biases inherent in standardized testing How those biases affect the LSAT, too Alternative ways to assess students The path forward for college admissions in a post-pandemic world . . . Links and further resources from from this week's episode: California leading the nation in diminishing the role of SAT testing: http://lat.ms/2O0WZSZ College Board discontinues SAT optional essays & subject tests: http://cnn.it/2MnCeQE Colleges dropping SAT requirements during the pandemic: http://cnn.it/36wtXki 2013 study of race, poverty, and SAT scores: https://bit.ly/3rcYNXg 2015 study found family income highly correlated with SAT score: http://bit.ly/3pELJJT TestMax Announces Justice in Action Program to Support 1,000 Future Lawyers: https://testmaxprep.com/blog/justice-in-action 33 Common LSAT Flaws, Available Now in Paperback & Kindle Formats: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B2KM2Q8/&field-keywords=lsat Start Your BarMax Free Trial Now: https://go.onelink.me/3011142272/d02ba2de Start Your LSATMax Free Trial: https://go.onelink.me/z1Zu/689fb4b4 The Road to 180: The Ultimate Guide to LSAT Prep (free on Kindle unlimited): https://amzn.to/3q4ifp1

(Warning: audio is okay (it happens) but the talk is great!) Saswat Das is a third year medical student receiving his D.O. in osteopathic medicine. He received a B.S. in Biology & Psychology at University of Tulsa. We discuss what medical school is like, what you can expect, what his experiences were like, how to get into medical school and advice for high schoolers, premedical students in their undergraduate education, and even medical school students. Lastly, Saswat Das beautiful explains why he decided to become a doctor, and potentially a pediatric physician. Saswat's Contact: sdas@asrcomedu.org Twitter Handle: @sas_WHAT Instagram Handle: @sas_WHAT Helpful links for MCATs and Medical School Saswat Recommends: https://boardsbeyond.com/homepage https://www.uworld.com https://sketchy.com https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalschool/ https://www.pathoma.com https://www.medschoolanki.com Links on the Show: Apple Ratings & Reviews: Click Here for Apple Podcasts Show Notes, Tips & More: Click Here for Linkedin Page Contact Me or Be a Guest: Click Here for Podcast Website Share a link to my podcast: Click Here for Link to Podcast Platform Selections --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/shivadhana/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/shivadhana/support

In today’s episode, we meet Fri Forjindam, co-owner, and chief development officer for Mycotoo. One day in college, Fri looked up and noticed that while she SHOULD have been studying for the MCATs with her peers, she was rehearsing lines for a spring musical.

This episode we welcome on Memorial University of Newfoundland (MUN) medical student Zahra Rehan to discuss the admissions process, curriculum, and student life at MUN Medical School! Thanks for joining us Zahra!

Alyssa Forsyth is an Emory Undergraduate Senior (Class of 2021) who is also on the pre-medical track taking Neurological and Behavioral Biology and Spanish and Portuguese majors. She dives into what makes you a compelling student for medical school and higher education, shares her favorite anthropology topics, and yeah... Bonobo Balls. (IYKYK... #clowntake). CLICK BELOW FOR MORE (hyperlinked): Follow my LinkedIn Page for exclusive show notes Book / Guest Recommendation, Be a Guest Form, and more... Check out my website here Wanna share a link to everything? Wanna give me a Rating and Review on Apple? --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/shivadhana/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/shivadhana/support

This episode we welcome on Shaily, our representative from Schulich School of Medicine & Dentistry at Western University! Shaily takes us through the admissions process, curriculum, and student life of Schulich School of Medicine. Thanks for joining us Shaily!

Dr. Jerry Balentine thinks a lot about the qualities successful medical students and physicians need. “I think all medical schools wish there was a way of testing who's going to be a great physician, but there's just no such test, so we use markers such as the MCATs to make sure that they're successful academically.” But he knows those markers don’t capture aspects of a person’s competence, character or experience that would make them a good fit for the profession. Qualities such as empathy, passion and grit are high on his list. In fact, he believes empathy is so important to practicing medicine that it’s both a research interest and something he builds into the learning experience at New York Institute of Technology’s College of Osteopathic Medicine from “day one.” Join Balentine and host Shiv Gaglani as they explore the growth of DO programs, the challenges of COVID, and NYIT’s success in building provider capacity in rural Arkansas.

Chad shares his story about struggling with undergrad as he needed to work, being rejected from Caribbean medical school and his recent application success. Links and Other Resourceshttps://medicalschoolhq.net/pmy-229-54-year-old-med-student-overcame-5-mcats-rejection-and-more/ (Full Episode Blog Post) Check out my https://medicalschoolhq.net/books (Premed Playbook) series of books (available on https://medicalschoolhq.net/books (Amazon)), with installments on https://amzn.to/2EhxhRf (the personal statement), https://amzn.to/2lHXoux (the medical school interview), and https://amzn.to/2vVQpU5 (the MCAT). Related episode: https://medicalschoolhq.net/mshq-011-interview-with-a-56-year-old-medical-student/ (Interview with a 56-year-old Medical Student). Related episode: https://medicalschoolhq.net/opm-2-old-old-start-medical-school/ (How Old Is Too Old to Start Medical School?) Need MCAT Prep? Save on tutoring, classes, and full-length practice tests by using promo code “MSHQ” at https://medicalschoolhq.net/nextstep (Blueprint MCAT (formerly Next Step Test Prep))!

Welcome back for part 2! This episode further explores Klasko's vision of health assurance, an industry that focuses on consumer's health, and that is enabled through innovative partnerships between health care and technology organizations. Patient's expectations are shifting toward a system of care that is empathetic, communicative, creative, and responsive – those providers, policy-makers, payers, and other partners who align with these principles will be the winners in the race to value! Dr. Stephen Klasko is the President and CEO of Thomas Jefferson University and Jefferson Health. His newest book, co-authored with venture-capitalist Hemant Teneja, is a manifesto that advocates for bringing consumerism, affordability, and rational economic behavior to the healthcare sector. UnHealthcare: A Manifesto for Health Assurance is a declaration to usher in a new age of digital and mobile consumerism in the healthcare industry, and introduces the concept of “health assurance” – a gamechanger that would force a redesign of the system. His vision is for a consumer-centric, data-driven, cloud-based healthcare system designed to help us stay well: we would need as little “sick care” as possible. Episode bookmarks: 03:18 The FHIR Interoperability Standard and Blue Button are “necessary but not sufficient” to bring about widespread consumerism and democratization of health data 03:30 Consumers will eventually wake up when they “no longer feel like patients” 04:00 Consumers have way too much respect for the healthcare system because they are too forgiving when it fails 04:40 Patients always assume their doctor is the best, and doctors can take advantage of this by not being patient-centered 04:54 Dr. Klasko shares a personal story of a friend who always chooses the best service option in every transaction, but then naively chooses to have his heart surgery wherever the PCP tells him 06:10 Dr. Klasko shares an anecdote on how patients will not often heed the advice of a second opinion because of fear that their primary physician will judge them 06:40 How the younger generation will be more demanding as a health care consumer and how the younger physicians are embracing thus 08:05 Data interoperability is an issue where health policymakers have been “asleep at the wheel” 08:15 The World Economic Forum tells Dr. Klasko, “There were two industries that escaped the consumer revolution – banking and healthcare.  Now you are alone." 09:20 Dr. Klasko describes how nonsensical telehealth medical licensure restrictions are 09:45 Data and interoperability are unnecessarily limited by ridiculous and overly strict laws, including HIPAA. 09:59 “Data needs to be interoperable. It is just absolutely crazy that we have to get most of the data we need from insurance companies.” 10:21 “My view of the future is that the patient owns their own health data.” 10:30 Getting permission from doctors to share their own data is straight out of the 1970s 11:20 “Interoperability challenges between different EHR systems is another absurd reality.” 11:25 Commure is an example of an SSO, FHIR-layer, health assurance company which “overcomes the tyranny of the traditional EMR” 12:13 “Health assurance will require consumers demanding it, open interoperability standards, enlightened health policy, and entrepreneurs working with the healthcare system in a way they haven't before.” 13:20 Moral injury and suicide rates among doctors due to a monolithic, rigid and impersonal system of care 14:14 “Med schools choose doctors based on science GPA, MCATs, and organic chemistry grades…and then we wonder why doctors aren't more empathetic, communicative, and creative.” 14:45 Med Schools are based on an antiquated 1970's model that emphasizes memorization in an era before digital computing, iPhones, and AI 14:55 “When you select doctors on self-awareness, empathy, communication skills, and cultural competence,

M2 Sotonye Douglas shares how she never lost sight of her dream to become a doctor. [Show summary] Sotonye Douglas describes herself as an “imperfect” medical school applicant who nevertheless became a student at Quinnipiac Netter School of Medicine, overcoming tremendous barriers in the process. An "imperfect" applicant discusses her path to medical school. [Show notes] There's a myth out there that med students never fail, never drop a class, and all have high MCATs and GPAs. They're perfect. Or they don't get in.  Our guest today is determined and hardworking, but she has also overcome significant challenges on the way to medical school. She doesn't fit the myth of the perfect med student, but she is nevertheless a proud M2. Sotonye Douglas is a second year MD student at Quinnipiac Netter School of Medicine. She was born to immigrant parents from Jamaica and Nigeria and grew up in Brooklyn in New York City. From a young age, she wanted to be a doctor, but working her way through high school and college made it hard to get good grades, much less prep for the MCAT. Yet today, she is an M2. Let's hear her story of hard work, perseverance, and tremendous determination directly from her. Can you tell us a little bit more about your background outside of medicine? When did you start working? What do you like to do for fun? [1:59] To go back in time a little bit, I did start working when I was in high school. I was working, but I was also student body president. I was also a cheerleader. I was very, very busy even then. I think that's when I started learning how to multitask. That's what kicked it off in high school: me learning how to be professional and how to juggle and how to run from one thing to the next. But for fun, I like to spend time with family and loved ones when I can because I do have a lot of family internationally. I love visiting family and trying to get away and travel. That's my release. How did you figure out that you wanted to be a doctor? [2:56] From a very young age, I found this interest in science. It just seemed so interesting to me. I also speak about having a very deep and robust interest in art. As a kid, when people would ask me, I would say, "Oh, I want to be a doctor." But as I started to get older and as I got into junior high school, I had this opportunity: There's this program that is no longer in New York City called the Gifted Program. It was for students who were talented and gifted, basically students that were performing higher on exams and stuff. They had special classes and things worked into our schedule. I had the opportunity to be exposed to a Saturday program for anatomy, and there were models and stuff. They brought different organs. And I had never seen any of that before. I knew what organs were, I knew what a heart was, I knew what a brain was. I knew what these things were, but I had never seen models. I would have been around 11 or 12. And seeing the models, they reminded me of sculptures. The arteries are in red; the veins are in blue. It was seeing the vibrancy and real organs. Since being in anatomy lab, I know that that's not actually what it looks like, at least in anatomy lab, but just seeing it at that age, it caught my attention because it reminded me of a sculpture. And I think at that point, I started seeing the connections between art and science, and that anatomy class solidified medicine for me. That's when I was getting ready to go into high school, and I said, "I need to be in a high school that's going to help me continue this." My old guidance counselor and the high school secretary, they remind me every time they see me: "I remember your first day at school, you came in and you said that you wanted to be a doctor." They remind me all the time now when they see me. It was just something that I felt very strongly. And despite everything that happened, I’ve always remembered having this overwhelming feeling of,

This episode we welcome on McGill University medical student Kathleen D'Aguanno to discuss the admissions process, curriculum, and student life of McGill Medical School! Thanks for joining us Kathleen!

Ni'Kita Wilson has always loved science. She thought she'd become a doctor, but a summer program where she got to shadow MDs as she studied for the MCATs made her realize she didn't have the passion for it. But she stayed with science and when into forensics straight out of college, Quickly realizing that this was the wrong job for her, Ni'Kita started looking for other work and stumbled upon cosmetic chemistry when she landed a job at a consulting company that formulated in every category of beauty and personal care. She found her home and never looked back. Ni'Kita explains how she mastered her craft, how a mentor encouraged her to go beyond the bench, and why it's her goal to formulate products that impress her peers as well as beauty editors. Now working in product development for a contract manufacturer, Ni'Kita explains why beauty brands large and small use their services, the timeline for a product launch, and why every product, even those created by kitchen chemists should be safety tested. Finally, Ni'Kita discusses why she believes that Black women are overlooked by the beauty industry, why she created her line, and why empowering her customers takes precedent over products.  Plus, she shares the smartest way to network and why your reputation is a valuable currency that you shouldn't overlook.

Jake Dell, the owner of Katz’s Deli on the Lower East Side, comes from a long legacy of deli owners. So, naturally, he planned to be a doctor. A gap year spent living in his grandfather’s footsteps and a moment with a 94-year-old customer changed all that.

This episode we welcome on University of Ottawa medical student Abdullah Haroon to discuss the admissions process, curriciulum, and student life of University of Ottawa Medical School. Thanks for joining us Abdullah!If you're looking to get in touch with Abdullah directly, check out the end of the episode where he provides his email address for direct contact.

Dr. Renee Volny Darko shares tips for med school applications during COVID-19, financial advice for med students, and the importance of having a growth mindset. [01:48] Why OB-GYN [05:23] Tips for Applying to Medical School during COVID-19 [10:42] Virtual Interview Tips [12:35] Medical School Application Date Changes Due to COVID-19 [14:20] Financial Tips for New Medical Students [18:44] The Importance of a Growth Mindset Erkeda DeRouen chats with Dr. Renee Volny Darko, an obstetrician-gynecologist (OB-GYN). Dr. Volny Darko graduated from Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences College of Osteopathic Medicine, did her residency at Robert Wood Johnson in New Brunswick, New Jersey, and then did a health policy leadership fellowship at the Morehouse School of Medicine under Dr. David Satcher. She is a practicing physician, has spent some time in academia, and has had several entrepreneurial pursuits. She has a passion for helping pre-meds from underrepresented backgrounds to get into medical school. Why OBGYN? OB-GYN was initially at the bottom of Dr. Volny Darko ’s list of specialty choices. However, after her OB-GYN clinical rotation — which was her last clinical rotation at medical school — she realized that she loved it. She reminds medical students to keep an open mind as you do your clinical rotations, knowing that you might be surprised by the rotations that you enjoy. It is okay to be uncertain about which specialty to choose. Applying to Medical School During COVID-19 Dr. Volny Darko shares three key tips for applying to medical school during COVID-19: Be flexible. You need to know that the process, deadlines, and requirements of your medical school application might shift. Pre-med students tend to be Type A, but neither medicine nor life is highly predictable, so you must be willing to adjust. Flexibility does not mean being lax. Despite the unprecedented nature of the pandemic, you must still submit your best possible medical school application. You need to continue to study for your MCATs, and to remember that the application criteria will not be so relaxed. Participate in their regular activities. For example, if you were going to attend a conference, perhaps attend a virtual conference. Take the initiative to better yourself and to engage with the medical community. Because of the pandemic, some medical school interviews might be switched to virtual interviews. Dr. Volny Darko encourages students to learn how to appear on screen, and how to appear professional. For example, remember to show your shoulders and pretend as if this were an in-person interview — avoid having your cat in the background, for example. Application dates for various medical schools may also be shifted around, depending on the number of COVID-19 cases in different states, or in the nation as a whole. Students should keep themselves informed of the updates. Financial Tips for New Medical Students Medical students should practice living below your means, as this habit will carry into your residency and attending years. To live below your means is to spend much less than the amount that you earn. It is not about accumulating lots of money, but rather, it is about freeing your future self to pursue anything that you want to pursue. For example, Dr. Volny Darko and her husband — host of the podcast Docs Outside the Box — paid off their students loans very quickly, by working both permanent and locum positions, leaving them with the freedom to travel and/or to stay home with their children without worrying about money. The Importance of a Growth Mindset Having a growth mindset means believing that your intelligence is not fixed, and can be increased. Dr. Volny Darko cites a study by psychologist Carol Dweck, which showed that pre-med hopefuls with a fixed mindset did not improve their grade in a chemistry class, whilst students with a growth mindset did. Stop saying that someone else is just “smart” because this gives you a pass to not work as hard. Be comfortable saying, “I do not know that YET” instead of “I do not know that.” Check out Dr. Renee Volny Darko’s LinkedIn and Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. Sign up for a Free Coaching session with Chase DiMarco, sponsored by Prospective Doctor! You can also join the Med Mnemonist Mastermind FB Group today and learn more about study methods, memory techniques, and MORE! Do check out Read This Before Medical School.

This episode we welcome on University of British Columbia medical students Sydney and Jero to discuss the admissions process, curriciulum, and student life of UBC medical school. Thanks for joining us Sydney and Jero!If you're looking to get in touch with Sydney or Jero directly, reach out to us on our Facebook page and we will happily connect you.

This episode we welcome on University of Calgary medical student Steven Lu to discuss the admissions process, curriciulum, and student life of University of Calgary Cumming School of Medicine. Thanks for joining us Steven!If you're looking to get in touch with Steven directly, reach out to us on our Facebook page and we will happily connect you.

Hey premeds! We are back with a super brief episode to let you know about the new series that we are launching today. The 'Medical School Spotlight' series welcomes guests from medical schools all across Canada to talk about the admissions process, curriculum, and student life at their medical school! By bringing on real people who go to these different schools, we hope to provide you an authentic look at the med school from someone who is personally involved and has experienced it all first hand. Thanks for tuning in to Pluripotent Premed!

This episode we welcome on Dalhousie medical student Brett Ells to discuss the admissions process, curriciulum, and student life of Dalhousie University medical school. Thanks for joining us Brett!If you're looking to get in touch with Brett directly, reach out to us on our Facebook page and we will happily connect you.

This episode we welcome on University of Manitoba medical student Stefon Irvine to discuss the admissions process, curriciulum, and student life of University of Manitoba medical school. Thanks for joining us Stefon!If you're looking to get in touch with Stefon directly, reach out to us on our Facebook page and we will happily connect you.

This episode we welcome on University of Saskatchewan medical student Shayan Shirazi to discuss the admissions process, curriciulum, and student life of University of Saskatchewan medical school. Thanks for joining us Shayan!If you're looking to get in touch with Shayan directly, reach out to us on our Facebook page and we will happily connect you.

Dr. Joel Ramirez talks about how tutoring can be a valuable resource for medical students studying for the USMLE exams. As someone who personally benefited from tutoring, Dr. Ramirez has a passion for educating and tutoring. MedSchoolCoach provides tutoring for both USMLE board exams (shelf and step), as well as the MCAT. [02:38] Tutoring for the MCATs Versus Board Exams [04:06] How to Determine if You Need a Tutor [06:37] Pinpointing Weaknesses in a Medical Student [10:00] What to Expect from a Medical School Tutor [13:37] Weighing the Financial Costs of Tutoring [16:46] The Focus of a MedSchoolCoach Tutoring Session [20:54] How Much Tutoring It Takes for a Student to Get a Passing Score   As someone who personally benefited from tutoring, Dr. Ramirez has a passion for educating and tutoring. MedSchoolCoach provides tutoring for both USMLE board exams (shelf and step), as well as the MCAT. Funnily enough, medical students tend to enjoy sitting for board exams more than they did the MCAT, because board exams are more relevant to the medical sciences, as opposed to the MCATs, which involves topics like physics, language and literature. There are two major groups of students who benefit from coaching — students who just want to pass their MCATs or board exams, and students who need a very high score because they want to get into a competitive specialty — for example neurosurgery, or want to go to medical school in a competitive geographical location — for example New York or California. And there are two broad categories of problems that students face: A knowledge or content gap. Insufficient strategy for answering questions. The tutors at MedSchoolCoach will design a personalized coaching/tutoring program for each student to prepare them for their MCATs or board exams. All tutoring is conducted in 1-on-1 sessions. When a medical student or a potential medical student expresses an interest in hiring a tutor through MedSchoolCoach, they must fill out an intake form in which they talk about their academic experiences, learning style, exam schedule etc. Based on this information, they are matched with a tutor. If a student is unsure that they want to commit to long-term tutoring, they can sign up for a package of five to ten hours first, or they can talk to the enrolment team, who can help them to decide if tutoring is the right option. Although Dr. Ramirez works for MedSchoolCoach, he emphasizes that when consulting with potential students, he always tries to share the best option for the student, which may not be tutoring. Many students might be put off by the financial costs of tutoring. Dr. Ramirez argues that if going to medical school in a specific geographical location, or having a specific specialty is paramount to a student’s happiness, then the investment is worth it. When asked about how long it would take for a failing student to reach the passing mark, Dr. Ramirez explains that this really depends on the student’s story. A high-performing medical student who simply has not begun board exam preparation yet, will have a much easier time reaching a passing mark than another medical student who has been studying for the board exam for three months, and is still failing. Check out MedSchoolCoach for more information, or have a chat with the enrollment team. Sign up for a Free Coaching session with Chase DiMarco, sponsored by Prospective Doctor! You can also join the Med Mnemonist Mastermind FB Group today and learn more about study methods, memory techniques, and MORE! Do check out Read This Before Medical School.

When the body of a med student comes in with track marks on her arm, it’s up to Tru to ditch her own MCATs and chance at med school to save her life. Did the plot remind us of Flatliners? Yes. Yes it did. Find out what else Bryn and Sarah thought of this strangely […]

Just like how undergrad has SATs and ACTs, for graduate school you have MCATs, LSATs, GMATs, and GREs. You will hear from Mike Bergin, host of the Tests and the Rests podcast, Founder of Chariot Learning, about what each of these exams consists of. I was lucky enough to be featured on Tests and the Rests, find our conversation here: https://gettestbright.com/college-declassified-what-high-schoolers-should-know-about-the-next-level/

In episode 2 of our Alternative Background series, Meghan joins us to discuss her experiences as a Music major pursuing medicine! Meghan discusses all aspects of the premed journey, such as the MCAT and medical school interview, and provides valuable insight into what it means to pursue medicine with a non-science background. Furthermore, she tells us her experiences in medical school, and how she plans to use music in her career as a physician. Thanks for tuning in to another week of Pluripotent Premed!

This week we kick off our Alternative Background series with Russel, a 3rd year medical student at Schulich School of Medicine! Russ did a dual undergraduate degree in business and science, and on today's episode he talks about his experiences as a premed student on this route. We discuss his experiences with the MCAT, extracurriculars, med school interview, and much more. Russ provides some really valuable advice with regards to studying habits, prioritization skills, and excelling in the med school interview. Thanks for tuning in to Pluripotent Premed!

Dan Freed is the founder of Formula, the world’s first personalized and completely customizable nootropics company. For those of you who don't know, nootropics are nutrient compounds shown to enhance mental performance in areas such as motivation, creativity, mood, memory, focus, and cognitive processing. FORMULA has amassed the largest dataset on the efficacy of nootropics to date. Dan dropped out of high school at 16 and says that ever since he can remember he has always struggled with procrastination, staying focused and staying motivated. After dropping out of high school, he went from making sandwiches at Subway to working his way up the culinary industry ladder and ultimately landed at a Michelin star restaurant in France where he first started dabbling with biohacking. He later completely pivoted tracks and with the help of nootropics, decided to go back to school and now has two master's degrees, one from INSEAD and one from Yale, without a college or even high school diploma. After witnessing his success story, his friends started organically asking Dan to create nootropic formulas for them and he started seeing crazy successes in their lives - his friends were acing their MCATs, getting promoted, and doing amazing at work. More and more people asked for it to the point that he eventually decided to start Formula and the rest is history. Formula has amassed an organic following from very influential names in wellness such as Dr. Mark Hyman and Vanessa Fitzgerald. It is worth noting that Formula only uses ingredients that are classified by the FDA as generally recognized as safe or have passed through phase 3 clinical trials but nootropics as a category are not a regulated substance so please do your own research before trying. Also worth noting is that nootropics work best when combined with exercise, proper nutrition, and meditation. On today's episode we get into Dan's career journey and how he got into biohacking, why traditional schooling is not for everyone, what nootropics are and the importance of customizing your dose to your personal brain chemistry, the difference between nootropics and Adderall, navigating an unregulated industry, building trust with consumers and lastly, finding your unique rhythm and way of learning to ultimately build your dream life.

Today we talk with Megan, an inspirational college student. When Megan had to move home from college, she found herself missing her routine and friends at Texas A&M, while trying to figure out how to succeed in online classes. Megan is majoring in molecular and cell biology, and hoping to go to medical school in the future. In the middle of the semester, her lab classes were switched to online, with Zoom and video lectures, and she wanted to find a way to release the stress away from a screen. Megan's had lots of hobbies her whole life. While back at home, she began designing and making clay earrings with her mom and sister. Her project evolved into a business which she launched on social media in the end of March. She sees this time in history as an opportunity to try new things and continue to grow. Her first customer outside of her friend group was Dr. Stevie Stanford, a guest on our show! Even though she loves spending time with her family and growing her business, Megan misses school and looks forward to taking the MCATs soon. Hear Megan's interview wherever you get your podcasts.Show notes: Megan shared her favorite Dr. Suess quote. Support Megan's business by purchasing a pair of her Zoom-worthy earrings at https://www.abilenerosetx.com/!Find her on Instagram and Facebook @Abeline.RosetxConnect with us:Click here to tell us your story.Why is it called More and More Every Day? Click here to read our first More and More post. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram @smcchistoryClick here to join our mailing list.Interview Date: 4/9/20

Christian Haynes ’20 joins us again to speak with Ron Lawson ‘75 about the transformational power of both a Holy Cross education, and the Holy Cross alumni network. Interview originally recorded on Martin Luther King Jr. Day on January 20, 2020. --- Transcript Ron Lawson: Holy Cross instills in you that notion of perseverance and what I realized when I graduated here... that I already had the suit of armor necessary to succeed in life and that played itself out at Carnegie Mellon because when I graduated from Carnegie Mellon, I knew it was the Holy Cross experience that got me to that point. Maura Sweeney: Welcome to Mission-Driven, where we speak with alumni who are leveraging their Holy Cross education to make a meaningful difference in the world around them. I'm your host, Maura Sweeney from the class of 2007, director of alumni career development at Holy Cross. I'm delighted to welcome you to today's show. Maura Sweeney: In this episode, we hear from Ron Lawson from the great class of 1975. Ron attended Holy Cross in the early '70s, a time that has been celebrated in the book Fraternity by Diane Brady, which chronicles the lives of an influential cohort of African-American students at Holy Cross. After growing up on Long Island, Ron studied political science at Holy Cross. He still considers those years living on Healy Three among the best in his life. Christian Haynes from the class of 2020 speaks with Ron on Martin Luther King Jr. Day in January 2020. They talk about how his career progressed from Wall Street to being unemployed and homeless, to today working as the COO for Care for the Homeless in New York City. Throughout these changes one thing has remained constant, his dedication to giving back to the Holy Cross community. They discuss Ron's motivations for helping create the ALANA Mentoring Program and the Bishop Healy Emergency Fund, in order to offer students of color the resources and support that he didn't have. A captivating and motivating speaker, Ron shares stories about the life experiences at Holy Cross that teach you how to persevere through hard times and succeed in life. Christian Haynes: Welcome everybody, my name is Christian Haynes, class of 2020, woo woo, that's this year. That's this year. I have here with me, the great Ron Lawson, class of '75. Ron you could introduce yourself, even though I just did. Ron Lawson: Yeah, I'm Ron Lawson. I would say I'm not great but I would say I'm from the great class of '75. Christian Haynes: I like '75, I don't know why. I always told my mum I wanted to be born that year. Ron Lawson: Oh really? Christian Haynes: I'm a more old-school guy. Young but got the old school. What was so great about '75? Ron Lawson: '75 had the unique distinction of being the last all-male class to enter Holy Cross. So my class was all-male when we entered as freshmen in '71. We all lived on the same dorm. The majority of African-Americans on campus, who were all male at the time, it's probably about 80 or 90 of us and most of us lived on Healy Three. So I love the fact that the class of '75 has that distinction as being the last all-male class before that transition took place. It was challenging, both on the part of the women... I don't know how they did it. I don't know how those early classes endured us because a lot of us weren't as considerate and kind as we realized we should have been in retrospect. Christian Haynes: Right. Now did you guys stay together all four years, in the same dorms? Ron Lawson: Yeah, I lived in Healy Three all four years. Christian Haynes: Really? Ron Lawson: Had a couple of different roommates but there was a core group of us that we used to call the fellas. About five or six of us and we all did everything together, everything from going to Kimball, to eating at Hogan, to going to parties at Welsey and Mount Holyoke and Smith and Simmons and Wheelock and Emmanuel. Christian Haynes: The list goes on. The list goes on. Ron Lawson: Yeah, on and on and on. Christian Haynes: That's interesting that you guys stayed in one dorm, all four years. What dorms weren't there that are here now. Ron Lawson: Figge... Christian Haynes: Yeah that's the newest one. Ron Lawson: ...wasn't here. There's a new dorm that just opened a few years ago, the apartments? Christian Haynes: Oh the Edge Apartments, no that's... Ron Lawson: Yeah, Figge and... Christian Haynes: Williams. Ron Lawson: Williams. Figge and Williams. Christian Haynes: Yeah, well I think Williams is... Ron Lawson: Williams is older than Figge and Figge... neither one of those were open. A little sidebar is, Williams was named after Edward Bennett Williams, who was a prominent attorney, a Holy Cross alumni, also the owner of the Baltimore Orioles and I think he may have owned the Washington Redskins also but he was a very prominent D.C. attorney and one of his mentees was Ted Wells who was in the class of '72, who was in school when I was here and Ted followed Edward Bennett Williams' model for success and Ted, in his own right, is a very prominent corporate attorney, got a joint degree from Harvard Law School and Business School. Christian Haynes: Wow. Yeah, earlier we talked about the connections Holy Cross provides to each student. I was told that freshman year... every year but freshman year I didn't believe it until I saw it... especially when I had my experience with you. I would love to get into that a little bit later but first, tell me about, how was it growing up in... correct me if I'm wrong, Winditch? Ron Lawson: Wyandanch. Christian Haynes: Wyandanch, Long Island. Ron Lawson: Wyandanch was a predominantly African-American community in Suffolk County on the South Shore of Long Island and it's where my parents had the foresight to move us, when I was infant, from the South Bronx because my father felt there was too much violence and he wanted a more safe and secure environment for us so he was able to buy a house. As I tell people, my father would constantly tell the story that he couldn't afford this house and it was $10,000 and he couldn't afford it because, even though he served in World War Two in the Philippines, because of Federal law. African-American veterans were not allowed to apply for a G.I. Bill, which provided low-interest loans to secure housing for veterans of World War Two. So he and my mother used to drive out from the Bronx and take these rides through the countryside on Long Island. He said, one day they drove by this house, which was a model home for where we moved in, he and my mother toured it. The real estate agent told him it was $10,000. He and my mother walked back to the car, he told my mother we can't afford it, she started crying and he sat in the car for five minutes trying to calm her and literally got out the car, walked back in the house and gave the real estate agent $10. Christian Haynes: Wow. Ron Lawson: That's how we secured our first home on Long Island and that's where I grew up. Christian Haynes: Wow. Ron Lawson: A very comfortable, lower middle-class environment. As I was telling some people earlier, I didn't realize that I was poor until I came to Holy Cross because all my needs had always been met. So it was a very interesting, holistic upbringing. I went to a really good public school, North Babylon High School. Some of the folks I graduated with... I went to Holy Cross, the other guys, one of my best friends went to Tufts, one guy went to Naval Academy, one guy went to Air Force Academy, so we were going to very good schools as a result of our North Babylon education. Christian Haynes: That's great. How was that culture shock and how... Ron Lawson: It wasn't for me, which I found interesting and unique. Coming to Holy Cross wasn't a culture shock for me. Coming to Holy Cross was by design, not by default. I had done well on the SATs so I was being recruited or getting letters of interest from a lot of schools including West Point, Indianapolis, Syracuse, Bucknell, College of William and Mary. I got a letter from Holy Cross but whereas all these other schools were sending me form letters, I got a personally typed letter that was signed by Gary Reed, who wound up being two years ahead of me, class of '73, wound up going to Harvard Law School and Gary obviously was part of the BSU committee at the time, that was trying to work to increase the number of African-Americans on campus. So when I got a personal letter from Holy Cross, I said well, I want to go see this place. Ron Lawson: Took the bus to Worcester with another friend of mine because he and I were both considering running track. When I got here and got on campus, I knew that was it. It was everything I had envisioned my college experience was to be. Ivy covered walls, small school sitting on a hill, didn't hurt that it was only 45, 50 minutes from Boston, then another 45, 50 minutes from Western Mass, so I knew I could get to Wellesley within an hour and I could get to Mount Holyoke within an hour, so that was very important to me. Ron Lawson: My high school was a very large high school, 2000 students, 90% white, 10% African-American. So when I got to Holy Cross and Holy Cross was 97% white with 3% African-American, it didn't phase me because that had been my whole upbringing. It was very interesting for guys like Ted and Tony Hill, class of '76 because Ted created a funnel effect for Holy Cross students coming from Calvin Coolidge High School in Washington and they followed him to Holy Cross so at one point in time, there were six or seven students from Calvin Coolidge here at Holy Cross. D.C. was totally different. D.C. was totally segregated. The schools were segregated unless you went to a private school, Calvin Coolidge, some of the other schools in the neighborhood were all African-American, so when they got to Holy Cross, they culture shock of having to deal with a majority environment was challenging to a lot of folks and some of the guys I knew dropped out because they couldn't handle it. Christian Haynes: Yeah, that's a good point, they may dropping out. I think as college students, that happens, it doesn't matter your background or anything like that but what made you stay? Now, you said there wasn't as much as a culture shock but I'm assuming that there had to be some kind of trials and tribulations along the way of... Ron Lawson: Oh, yeah, that's life. You're going to always incur trials and tribulations but I knew, at the time I was here, that I was experiencing the best time of my life. I knew I would have other good times ahead but I knew, while I was at Holy Cross, that I was experiencing four of the best years of my life and so I took it all in, I didn't leave anything on the table. I made sure I took advantage of as many opportunities as possible and it ran the gambit. It ran from going to parties in Boston to sitting, being a member of the political science club and having dinner with Archibald Cox, who was the special prosecutor for Richard M. Nixon, to one night having a campus-wide snowball fight with 26,000 people. Christian Haynes: Wow. Ron Lawson: All night long. Hunkering down behind Wheeler, crawling through the snow with a sack full of snowballs, waiting to get somebody upside the head. So no one could have had a better collegiate experience and you can talk to a lot of the folks that were with us, experienced this during the same time and a lot of them would feel the same way. Christian Haynes: Would you say there was a difference between the other African-American men on campus, since you guys had different backgrounds, did you notice certain differences through just the way you guys went about things? Ron Lawson: No, it was pretty much consistent throughout. Some of the same lingo that I used in North Babylon, that the guys from D.C. used, still played the same games growing up Ringolevio, hot peas and butter, all- Christian Haynes: I never heard of that... You from Brooklyn so... Ron Lawson: But a lot of the influences were exactly the same. Christian Haynes: Yeah, that's good. Ron Lawson: The commonality was such that, when our parents met, it was the same thing, they became friends. So no, I didn't see any difference between me and the other guys that I was going to school with. Christian Haynes: That's good. Now when you hear, you mentioned these names many times today in the short time that we've been together today but when you hear the names Stan Grayson, Eddie Jenkins, Clarence Thomas, those names, Ted Wells, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? Ron Lawson: It varies. First of all, the relationship endures and I take that for granted because it's just constant. Here's a perfect example, the Bishop Healy Committee had a farewell lunch in for Dean Millner yesterday, off-campus. Eddie came and we call ourselves the old heads because when we're around you guys there's a 40 year, 45 year gap so we know we're the old heads. So after I went to the bookstore, I was walking down here and I decided to go into the library, just to look to see how things have changed and as I'm leaving, I see a display case and in the display case is a picture of the Holy Cross football team of 1969 and so I look and I see Eddie Jenkins, take a picture and I send it, said that, on campus, in the library at the bookcase, just saw this picture, who's the young man in the second row, third from the left? So it's always those kinds of continuity of relationships and continuation of relationships. Two young men from my church will be entering Holy Cross in September and Stan and I couldn't be happier because we constantly engaged with making sure they were... applications were in, they were getting everything they needed, they were responding in an appropriate time. So now, I see this as an opportunity to have two more mentees on campus that I can help mentor over the next four years. Christian Haynes: That's great. I love this story but when you're mentioning Fraternity, it's like a slight bit but I know you take full pride into that, right? Ron Lawson: Yeah but as I said and as I told Maura and the other folks early on, I was at the tail-end of that experience, all right? Christian Haynes: Yeah. Ron Lawson: That started with these guys making one of the most bold decisions you could make as a person that young. They had decided that there were injustices on campus that affected black students disproportionately and they couldn't achieve the level of resolution that they wanted so they walked out. Went in the Hogan, had a press conference, tore up their ID cards and walked out. Among them was Art Martin, class of '70, who was the first president of the BSU and I can't even imagine the admiration the admiration these other guys must have had for him because he was a senior and he was already accepted into Georgetown Law School and Stan and Eddie and Clarence and Ted, they all told him, you don't have to go, you're already set, don't worry about it. He said, no, if one person is walking out, we're all walking out. Christian Haynes: RIght. Ron Lawson: So he was willing to sacrifice... they were willing to sacrifice their college education, he was willing to sacrifice an opportunity to matriculate Georgetown Law School. So I don't, in any way shape or form, compare with them or compare with that. Where I fall into play is, most of them except for Clarence and Art were all seniors my freshman year and we were all living on Healy Three and Eddie was a big-time football player, went on to win the Superbowl with the Miami Dolphins, Stan was getting ready to go to the University of Michigan Law School and Ted was getting ready to go to Harvard Business and Law School, four year joint degree. My claim to fame was, I showed up on Healy Three with a color TV and so that was my paragraph in the book and it was bittersweet because, I must admit, I liked the attention I got but then I realized the foolhardiness in that because Ted and Stan would kick me out my room every Sunday so they could watch Sunday football games in color and they'd make me go to the library. So... Christian Haynes: At least you got your work done. Ron Lawson: Well I tried to get my work done but I sat there for two or three hours saying, "man they kicked me out of my room, I can't even watch TV on my own TV", but I was a freshman, they were the upper-classmen so you do what you're told. Christian Haynes: Yeah, can't do nothing about it. Ron Lawson: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Christian Haynes: Yeah but I think there was a trickling effect that they had, especially with your class and the classes after that, I think you guys noticed what they did and wanted to pursue what they did, pursue that. Ron Lawson: Oh, definitely. Definitely. Christian Haynes: Pursue that legacy. Ron Lawson: They set the model that we all tried to become and follow suit. That was a blessing and a curse because over time, you would say to yourself, well, I'm not as successful as Ted, I'm not as successful as Stan, I'm just doing this. It took a while to say, I'm successful in my own right but what was always important was, will they be proud of me, will they be proud of my accomplishments. That was very, very important to me and the guys and the women that followed them. When they hear your name, will they speak about you with pride? Christian Haynes: Yeah. Seemed like there was a strong sense of brotherhood on the campus around that time. Ron Lawson: Oh, definitely. Christian Haynes: Yeah and for your class and the classes after, who were the people that you would go to whenever there was something on your mind or something you had to get off your chest or something happened, whether good or bad? Ron Lawson: It was pretty much Ted and Stan, for me. Even when Ted was in law school and business school, as consumed as he was, his Wife Nina, who was successful in her own right, was at Suffolk University and a lot of times, she would help counsel me because I was thinking of applying to law school. Even after school, when I'd had issues or just needed to bounce something off of someone, it would always be Ted or Stan that I would reach out to. Christian Haynes: Do you have any untold stories of Holy Cross, that you can think of? Ron Lawson: No, not... I have some I can't say publicly. Christian Haynes: Oh yeah, that's fine. Or your favorite story. Ron Lawson: Okay, my favorite story really... there's so many favorite stories. My most favorite story would have to be... I owe so much to Holy Cross. I always tell people like you and like Maura, who I think graduated in '07, that you all were going to be successful no matter what you did or no matter where you chose to go to school but you decided to go to Holy Cross so Holy Cross gets to take credit for your success. That's the reality. But going to Holy Cross... when I was here, my freshman year, my roommate was dating a young woman from New York, who was a few years younger than him, in high school and she and a bunch of her girlfriends came up for the weekend and we had one of the vacant suites in Healy Three and they all stayed there. I was dating one of her girlfriends. Then afterwards, my roommate and her broke up and over the years I would say, I wonder what ever happened to her, she was really cute and she had an odd last name, her last name was Clivert. Ron Lawson: So fast forward from the mid '70s to the early '90s, I'm now CFO for Mayor Dinkins in New York and one night I let the whole finance team go home early and I am processing campaign cheques to deposit in the bank the next day. So I see a cheque and it's got the name Nina Clivert on it. Well I know this has to be her so I start research... I try to find her, I get her number, I call, I leave a message. Couple of weeks later, we go out on a blind date. We go out on a couple of other days and to make a long story short, she's been my wife for the last 25 years. So it's because of Holy Cross I found my wife. Christian Haynes: Wow. You ever tell your roommate about that? Ron Lawson: Yeah, no harm, no foul. He broke up with her 1973, she and I got together in 1992. Christian Haynes: He does play a part in it. Ron Lawson: Yeah but- Christian Haynes: He wasn't invited to the wedding? Ron Lawson: Huh? No he wasn't invited to the wedding. He's all the way out in Seattle. Christian Haynes: That's funny. Now, what was next, after you graduated from Holy Cross? Ron Lawson: I didn't know. I didn't know. I was not at the top of my class, by any stretch of the imagination. I wasn't even in the middle of my class, by any stretch of the imagination. I was real close to the bottom of my class, with no stretching the imagination so I came home and I didn't have a lot of options. I didn't have the GPA to go to law school and so I worked for a year in a job that basically paid me a salary and it was something to do. At that time I decided I was going to apply to business school because two of the guys I graduated with, both went to Cornell and they were in the MBA program. So I applied to Cornell. I applied to a few other schools and I had done well on the GMATs so I got a letter from Carnegie Mellon saying that they had a pre-professional... they had a quantitative summer skills institute that I could enroll in for free and depending upon how I did in this summer skills institute, they would determine whether I could matriculate as a master's candidate and whether or not I would receive any sort of scholarship. Ron Lawson: It was scary because at Holy Cross, I was a political science major and one of the things Holy Cross teaches you is how to think, how to process, how to articulate and how to write. So I knew I could get in front of any audience and I could pontificate and I could speak the King's English and I could do well. I stayed as far away from quantitative courses as I possibly could because I was fearful of them. Well now I'm at CMU and I'm going to a quantitative summer skills institute so I'm confronted with my greatest fear. So the summer I was there, I had to take finite math, calculus, statistics, two computer programming courses, fundamental accounting, intermediate accounting, cost accounting and advanced accounting. I did well enough that I was actually tutoring calculus to undergraduate students by the end of the semester and I was offered a seat in the master's class and got a scholarship. So after one year of working after Holy Cross, I then went and got a master's in public management from Carnegie Mellon. Christian Haynes: You went from being at the bottom of the class to getting that offer of scholarship. Ron Lawson: Yeah and that's what I tell people. When anybody comes in my office... I prominently display all my degrees, my Holy Cross degree, my master's degree from Carnegie Mellon and then the first company that hired me after Carnegie Mellon sent me to a post-graduate program in accounting and finance at the Kellogg School, so I had that certificate on my wall also. I always tell people, it's not about me trying to show off or trying to display any arrogance. I am paying testimony to my parents, to my father who died at 57 and mother who died at 47, who I felt worked themselves into an early grave to make sure I could achieve that level of success, so that's in tribute to them. Ron Lawson: But yeah, that's how life is and what Holy Cross also taught me was, never give up. It was instilled in me, early on because there were a lot of challenges here where I could have... half my class, there were 34 black men in my class and half of them either flunked out or left and that 50% drop-out rate was pretty consistent through the early '70s to mid '70s. So I could have easily said, this is too hard, I'm not doing it, I'm going back to North Babylon and go to community college but Holy Cross instills in you that notion of perseverance. What I realized, when I graduated here, that I already had the suit of armor necessary to succeed in life and that played itself out at Carnegie Mellon because when I graduated from Carnegie Mellon, I knew it was the Holy Cross experience that got me to that point. Ron Lawson: Let me tell you a perfect example. Once again, I'm not at the top of my class, I'm struggling because I'm dealing with all these quantitative courses. We would be sitting in economics and economics class was 200/300 people in the auditorium. Now I'm not used to that. I'm used to 20 people in a class, in the basement of Fenwick or O'Kane because we used to have classrooms down there. I wasn't used to the type of economics because we were used to Samuelson, guns and butter. That was economics, I can understand that. I get to Carnegie Mellon and it's all math, it's all quantitative and it's all math. It's partial and differential equations. The professor is at the front on the video screen and he's doing computations and equations and formulas and he is trying to show us how to solve for lambda. I'm like, "what's lambda?", well nobody really knows but we're going to solve for it. Christian Haynes: Right. Ron Lawson: So I am befuddled, I am bemused, I am dismayed and I am flunking everything. Then one day, Holy Cross, being the institution that it is, teaches you perspective, teaches you how to observe. So I'm sitting in class and he puts an equation on the board and I see somebody raise their hand, "Professor Haynes, Professor Haynes", oh and he goes, so, this is how you solve for lambda, you take that purple bag and you have the black video screen and then you add it to the Holy Cross sign. "Professor Haynes, Professor Haynes", "yes Ron?", "so what you're saying, and this is intuitively speaking, is if I have a purple bag with a black sign and the Holy Cross sign, via the combination of those three elements, I will be able to solve for lambda", "that's right Ron", and I looked and I said, all he did was regurgitate what the professor said, he just said it a different way. From that day on, I was a B plus or an A student because all you had to do was regurgitate but I learned that because I learned that at Holy Cross, the perspective. Ron Lawson: Then I also realized my grades weren't good as the rest of the class so I needed to step up and figure out how I was going to gain an advantage. Well, I looked around and I remember when we were interviewed on campus, everybody put on their little suits and ties. I went out and got a $250 navy blue, Pierre Toussaint [intention: Pierre Cardin] double-breasted suit. Clean as the board of health. I would wear that to every job interview and at the end of my first semester, second year, when all the job offers were being made, I think I had seven job offers, which was more than anyone else in my class. Christian Haynes: Wow. Ron Lawson: So it was all those educational... it wasn't even educational experiences from Holy Cross, it was those life experiences from Holy Cross that helped me succeed. Christian Haynes: Right. Now, shortly after you got the scholarship for the master's program, you found out that your father had passed, right? Ron Lawson: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Christian Haynes: At this point, your mother had passed at the age of 17. Ron Lawson: Yes. Christian Haynes: Earlier you mentioned having the degrees in your office as a testimony to them, at that age, how do you get through that? I don't know if you have any siblings or anything like that but how were you able to get through that and how did your work or your work ethic reflect your parents? Ron Lawson: Well I just did. I can't even tell you how I got through it, I just did. I would love to say I had a tremendous support system but I was a moving target. I'm trying to pursue my career or move forward professionally, the way I know my parents would have wanted me to. When my father passed, I must admit, for a minute, I said, well I'm not... it was a three week break between the end of the summer skills institute at Carnegie Mellon and me entering the fall class and I wasn't going to go back. After my mother's death, my father remarried, my step-mother said, that's what he would have wanted you to do so you can't not go back. He only had $3,000 in life insurance, she gave me $300 and so off I was back to Carnegie Mellon. Ron Lawson: I was struggling academically and broke because I had no financial support. If we're having breakfast and you offered me a bowl of Kellogg's cornflakes now, I'd want to fight you because that's all I could afford to eat for two years. Coming from that experience, I realized well, if you can do this, you can do anything. What my parents instilled in me is no giving up, you don't quit. I saw it with my mother and her battle with breast cancer. I saw my father's angst after she passed and how he basically raised me as a single parent until I went off to Holy Cross. So those object lessons stuck with me and I just had the mindset that there was no challenge I couldn't overcome. Christian Haynes: So after Carnegie Mellon, you ended up in Wall Street or was there...? Ron Lawson: Yeah, spent 15 years in financial services with what is now Ernst & Young, Deloitte & Touche, Chase, JPMorgan Chase, Salomon Brothers, I did that for 15 years until I got laid off. That was my great epiphany because... this is what... you may have heard the term, in the past, the go-go '80s, this is during a period of time where everyone's making a ton of money on Wall Street, everyone's living extravagantly, it's all about self, there's nothing about, how do you live your life to benefit others. It's like, how do I get mine? I was caught up, head over heels, in it. Wearing the fine clothing, the expensive clothing, going out to the expensive restaurants, going to the theater two or three times a week. Next thing I know, I have lost my job and in my arrogance I said, well this will only take me a couple or three weeks to get another job because I have a Holy Cross degree, I have a Carnegie Mellon degree and I have a post-graduate certificate from the Kellogg School and I have 15 years of work experience on Wall Street. Didn't happen. Ron Lawson: I realized that, in retrospect, that this was God's way of humbling me because it's very timely that we're having this conversation today on Martin Luther King Day because I was able to come out of losing my job, losing everything I own, being homeless, to in a six month period of time, being the CFO for the Mayor of New York because I had a close network of friends that were very influential and because I met my minister at the time, who was Reverend Doctor Paul Smith and he was a senior pastor of First Presbyterian Church in Brooklyn Heights. Paul is the person that introduced Martin Luther King to Andrew Young and Paul is a really good friend of Andrew Young and Paul was a key proponent, a key participant in the Civil Rights Movement, he was part of the group that got beaten crossing the Edmund Pettus Bridge. Paul was the one that would call me over... because I lived about two or three miles from the church and I'd walk over because I couldn't afford to take the subway or a cab and we'd sit, we'd talk, we'd pray and he's constantly telling me, hard times don't last always. Tough times don't last, tough people do. Ron Lawson: So that's what got me out of that but once again, it was the Holy... one of the things Holy Cross also teaches you is, you are fortified to accomplish anything and as such, when somebody offers an opportunity to you that you might not necessarily be comfortable with or think you have the background for, you jump at it because you know you'll figure it out and that's what happened to me. My best friend at the time had run both of Harold Washington's mayoral campaigns and was in New York, he was the vice chair of an investment banking firm and Mayor Dinkins asked him to be the treasurer, campaign treasurer for his re-election campaign. Ken and I had dinner one night and Ken asked me if I would serve as the CFO because as Ken... and he was a real funny guy, as Ken put it, he said, "you know in New York state law, a political campaign treasurer can go to prison if there's misappropriations of funds of malfeasance", and he said, "so I need you to set up the financial infrastructure so you can watch my back because I am too pretty to go to prison". So that's how I got there. So I wound up managing an $11,000,000 political campaign, had about 15 staff members. Christian Haynes: So I think that definitely had an effect on what you do now and being the... Ron Lawson: That did, yeah. Christian Haynes: Yeah. Being the COO of Care for the Homeless, which I was a part of for one summer, as an intern. Not only that, I'm thinking about it right now, you taught me a lot but the biggest thing that I took away from you during that summer was the way you treated other homeless people. A lot of people, especially in New York City, homeless people get treated as if they're not a human being, nothing, just on the street but the way you would interact with them, and it's not just giving them money or giving them food, you would actually interact with them and I remember me, you and Nikai was coming from dinner one time and you told us just to go to the office and I just felt like you were going to a business meeting. You made it seem like you were going to a business meeting. Christian Haynes: Then I saw you going... I don't know the guy's name but it was in the corner of the same block that the office is on and you was talking to him, you was talking to him for a good minute and that right there just showed me the type of person you were and I guess it showed me a little bit what you learned yourself when you was homeless yourself for those six months and it was just like... and I'm glad. I'm really glad I had that opportunity and it just opened my eyes to a lot of things. I'm pretty sure that's one of the messages you try to tell people, in a way. Ron Lawson: Yeah. Holy Cross espouses and the model/mantra is, "men and women for others". So I don't want to have this journey and not be of service to others. It's not just selfishness in the sense of, well people helped me and I want to help other people, it's that it's what we're supposed to do. It's how, I think, an individual is supposed to live their life. The road to success is a journey, not a destination. In my view, you are never completely successful until you're put to rest and somebody is eulogizing you and says the world was a better place because you were here, because you lived in it. I take the work I do at Care for the Homeless differently in the sense that I am selfish because those 15 years on Wall Street, I always felt good about making a lot of money but I never felt good about what I was doing for someone else because I didn't care. So having to be humbled was God's way of telling me, you need to start focusing on other folks and not yourself. Ron Lawson: So I have the best experience in the world, I'm helping the folks who are least among us to get back on their feet, to find meaning in their own lives and because I go to work every day, I can honestly say, when I go home and I lay my head on the pillow at night, somebody somewhere is a little better off because I went to work today and I like the way that makes me feel. Christian Haynes: That's great. I remember you telling me that. You think if you didn't have that humbling experience, you would have went from business to non-profit, as you did? Ron Lawson: I don't know. I think I would have gotten to a point where I would have gotten tired of Wall Street and looked for other opportunities but I don't know when and where that would have come. So I think God just accelerated it for me. Christian Haynes: Has it always been instilled in you to give back or to want to give back? Ron Lawson: It has but not as prominent as it became once I started working for the mayor because that was a turning point for me because now I was working for the mayor of New York and no matter what your political persuasions... he was running against Rudy Giuliani and we literally saw it as good guy versus the bad guy, that's how we saw it. It was the very first time that I worked for a purpose and not just a paycheck. My wife will tell you, the night the mayor lost, we were engaged and we were living together at the time, we went to her house after the campaign because we were in the mayor's suite at the Sheraton and we couldn't stay any longer because we could tell he was losing so we went home and I started looking at the returns on the TV and after about three or four minutes I started crying and I couldn't stop crying. Then the TV went black. Never happened before that, never happened after that. So I think it was a sign where I just didn't have the emotional capacity to deal with him losing. So that's some of what I feel at Care for the Homeless, this is not just collecting a salary, there's a purpose behind the paycheck. It's a gratifying experience. Christian Haynes: Yeah. You've done a lot of great things, in my eyes, as an alumnus of the school. One of the things you helped do is created the ALANA Mentor Program. I've benefited form that. I've met a couple of alumnus who I still keep in touch with today, we're great... I actually just had a conversation with one of them. What made you want to create that? Ron Lawson: I want y'all to have what I never had, on a variety of levels. The ALANA Mentoring Program, that's why I was also key in starting the Bishop Healy Emergency Fund because a lot of times we don't have the resources that other folks on campus have and a lot of times the resources we need aren't huge. There's some kids that can't take the GMATs or can't take the LSATs or can't take the MCATs because they can't pay the application fee. Christian Haynes: Right. Ron Lawson: So the ALANA... the Bishop Healy Emergency Fund can do that. Can't get home for a winter break, come from the south and don't have a winter coat. The mentoring program, as I told you, who did I counsel with? Ted and Stan. Ted and Stan. The mentoring program, I thought, was an opportunity to connect more students of color on campus with alumni of color who were in the same fields that the students may have an interest in. I just thought it was a necessary addition to a student's collegiate experience here at Holy Cross. Christian Haynes: You know how it's set up? Ron Lawson: How it's set up? Christian Haynes: Yeah, how people are matched with the alumni. Ron Lawson: Well I know how I started it and... I called Amy Murphy in career development and she told me she thought it was a good idea and she said okay, here are some student's names that said they're interested and here's the list of alumni. I literally sat in my living room for two or three days, looking at alumni careers and their careers and then the students and what their interests were and started matching them. So now, I don't know how it's evolved, I know it has on some level. Christian Haynes: Yeah, similar it's just I thought it was interesting that the names aren't on the list, it's just the occupation and where they're located and the year that they graduated. So for us students it's like, we don't know who's who, we just know a little bit about them and you know the things that they've done on campus, whether that's sports or BSU or anything like that. So I thought that was pretty interesting. Ron Lawson: Yeah, it is. Christian Haynes: The Bishop Healy Fund too, a lot of people have benefited over that. I know somebody who just came home from an immersion trip and told me that it was a life changing trip and it was because of the Bishop Healy Fund so we want to thank you... I think I speak for everybody when we say, we want to thank you and those who have helped you create the Bishop Healy Fund and the ALANA Mentoring Program. Ron Lawson: So I appreciate the thanks but I'll tell you, like I was told by my friends that helped me out of that tough period of time, when you start moving forward in your career, make sure you reach back and make sure you do it for someone else. Christian Haynes: Yeah. Yeah I honestly think that was... the ALANA Mentoring Program, that was the thing that made me want to give back. I haven't graduated yet but I've told myself that, when I get to where I want to be, I want to give back. Ron Lawson: I would challenge you on that and say, don't wait until you get to where you want to be. Start now because you being out of school a year or two, you're going to be far more relatable to a sophomore or junior on campus than I am, 45 years out. So don't think you don't have anything to offer just because you haven't achieved what successes based upon what you define it to be. And, stay connected. I know you and Maura are going to say, oh here he goes again, because I know I'm preaching to the converted but I always like to state, that if you are a graduate of The College of the Holy Cross and you don't take advantage of the alumni network, you have discounted your degree by 25%. Christian Haynes: Yeah I definitely hear that and I will do as you say. Ron Lawson: How did you get your job last summer? Christian Haynes: Last summer or the summer before? Ron Lawson: Last summer. Christian Haynes: Last summer? Same story as the other one anyways. Ron Lawson: No, who'd you work for? Christian Haynes: Huh? Ron Lawson: Who'd you work for? Christian Haynes: Schone Malliet Ron Lawson: And what is he? Christian Haynes: He is an alumnus. Ron Lawson: From what class? '74. Christian Haynes: I thought '76? Ron Lawson: '74. Christian Haynes: Yeah. Ron Lawson: The point I'm making is, your last two summer jobs came because you reached out to the Holy Cross alumni. Christian Haynes: Right. Actually, everybody that I've spoke to to get those two jobs were alumnus or alumni. Ron Lawson: See? Christian Haynes: Interesting. But yeah, like I said before, I didn't know the strength of... the power of the purple. Ron Lawson: Yep. There's nothing like it. Christian Haynes: Yeah until when I needed to start connecting with people because I needed a job for the summer or anything like that. Yeah, what would you say is your mission statement, if you were to have one? If you don't have one, now's your time to create one. Ron Lawson: Personal mission statement? Christian Haynes: However you want to take it. Ron Lawson: To share as much as I can with as many people as I can. I take umbrage and I take it personally whenever I speak to a Holy Cross alumnus who tells me they didn't have the same experience I had. It bothers me when somebody walks away from this hill and says it wasn't four of the best years of their life. I know it can't be the case 100% of the time but I would hope it's the overriding case 98% of the time and those occurrences are few and far between. So I feel it's incumbent upon me to do everything I can to give back to the students who are on campus now so they can walk away saying it was four of the best years of their life. So whereas you have other alum who have interests to serve on the board or serve on the alumni association board, which I have done, I really get excited about connecting personally with students on campus, while they're on campus. Christian Haynes: How would you say the Holy Cross mission statement has effected your work? Ron Lawson: It makes it easy for me to say I come from an institution like this because this institution's motto is, "men and women for others", and that is what this school is known for and how the students live their lives on campus. So it's very interesting and another example of how deep the network runs is, Yankelly Villa, who you may know, was one of the presidential scholars last year. She posted on LinkedIn that she was coming to New York to get a master's degree at the new school and she needed a job, I saw it, she is now my operations assistant. Harry Thomas, class of '78, former ambassador to Bangladesh, Philippines, Zimbabwe, sits on the board of trustees, I asked him to serve on our board, he's on our board, he chairs our benefit committee and as a result of the people he knows, we now have a relationship with Ben Vereen, who's a two time Tony Award winner who is now going to headline a huge gala for us to celebrate our 35th anniversary in the fall. It is so bad that my boss, George Nashak who's a Columbia graduate, calls Care for the Homeless, Holy Cross South. Christian Haynes: In fairness, that's a good thing. Ron Lawson: Yeah, it's a very good thing for us. Christian Haynes: Yeah. All right so, we're going to do a little speed round. Ron Lawson: Okay. Christian Haynes: Just ask you questions and you can answer as fast you can. So if you was to change two things about Holy Cross, what would they be? Ron Lawson: Number of African-American students on campus. Christian Haynes: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Ron Lawson: And... figuring out how to keep it from snowing so much here during the winter. Christian Haynes: Impossible. Ron Lawson: Yeah. Christian Haynes: One year, it didn't snow as much. I didn't like it because you know we still have classes when it snows. Ron Lawson: That's another thing. You don't understand, y'all be shutting down and closing school when it snows, that is like an oxymoron to me. Holy Cross is closed because it's snowed. It didn't close the four years I was here. Christian Haynes: You'd be surprised how dangerous it gets. Ron Lawson: Oh, please. Christian Haynes: There's a lot of black ice... Ron Lawson: I must admit, when my father brought me up, he brought me up, dropped me off and then he came back later in the fall, towards the end of the fall for a football game and he saw the maintenance crew putting up the long, red, metal poles with the diamonds on top on the fire hydrants and he said, "what is that for", I said, "Dad, I don't know", and like six weeks later I called him, I said, "Daddy, you know why they put those things on the fire hydrants?", he said, "no", I said, "because the snow's so deep, they can't find them, that's the only way they can find them". So... I know the first one's far more realistic than the second. Christian Haynes: Yeah. Best place to eat in Worcester, back in the day? Ron Lawson: There was none. Christian Haynes: Really? Nothing? Ron Lawson: No. Christian Haynes: Not Miss Woo's? Ron Lawson: McDonald's. That's pretty much it. Christian Haynes: Wait, Miss Woo's is there. Miss Worcester's Diner. Ron Lawson: I didn't do that. I am not going to eat any place... under a place that is called Pigeon Bridge. Where Miss Woo is, that bridge, they used to call it Pigeon Bridge. Christian Haynes: Oh, did not know that. Ron Lawson: Yeah. Christian Haynes: Makes a lot of sense. Ron Lawson: There you go. Christian Haynes: All right, best place to eat in Worcester now? Ron Lawson: Oh, Sole Proprietor. Christian Haynes: Actually been there, it's pretty good. Ron Lawson: Yeah. Christian Haynes: Would you rather life as a student or life as an alum? Ron Lawson: Life as an alum. Christian Haynes: Ideal vacation spot? Ron Lawson: South Africa. Christian Haynes: Why? Ron Lawson: Because I haven't been. Christian Haynes: Okay. I was going to ask your favorite dorm but you said you spent all four years at Healy. Ron Lawson: Yeah. Christian Haynes: Favorite year? Ron Lawson: Every year. Christian Haynes: No, favorite year. What was that? Ron Lawson: Favorite year? Christian Haynes: Yeah. Ron Lawson: '75. Christian Haynes: Okay. If you were to win the lottery, what is the next thing you're doing? Ron Lawson: How much? Christian Haynes: I don't know, 100 mil. Ron Lawson: 100 mil? Christian Haynes: Yeah. Ron Lawson: Make sure my families and friends are secured. Christian Haynes: I'm one of those friends. Ron Lawson: I'd think about it. Sit down with the school to see what their needs are. Have a conversation with Father Boroughs and Tracy Barlok and make a sensible contribution to the college that's going to help move it forward and move the mission forward and set up a need-blind scholarship program for students coming to campus. Christian Haynes: Favorite song or best song that reflected your time at Holy Cross? Ron Lawson: Theme from Shaft. Christian Haynes: Theme from what? Ron Lawson: Theme from Shaft. Isaac Hayes. That's all that was playing when I got here. Christian Haynes: A book you've read that has changed your perspective on life. Ron Lawson: Fraternity. Christian Haynes: Okay. If given the money needed, what would be the first thing you'd invent? Ron Lawson: A quicker mode of transportation from my house to work in the morning. Christian Haynes: You're on a road trip, who's in the car and what are you guys listening to? Ron Lawson: Nina, my wife, is in the car and we're listening to Stevie Wonder's Inner Visions/Fulfillingness' First Finale and Songs in the Key of Life, in sequence. Christian Haynes: Well, that's all I got. Ron Lawson: All right. Christian Haynes: Always a pleasure. I appreciate you coming down here and taking the time to do this, it was very exciting for me. I hope you had a good time. Ron Lawson: I enjoyed myself and I appreciate you asking. Christian Haynes: Yeah, no doubt. Maura Sweeney: That's our show, I hope you enjoyed hearing about just one of the many ways that Holy Cross alumni have been inspired by the mission to be men and women for, and with, others. A special thanks to today's guest and everyone at Holy Cross who has contributed to making this podcast a reality. If you, or someone you know, would like to be featured on this podcast, please send us an email at alumnicareers@holycross.edu. If you like what you hear, then please leave us a review. This podcast is brought to you by the office of alumni relations at The College of the Holy Cross. You can subscribe for future episodes wherever you find your podcasts. I'm your host Maura Sweeney and this is Mission-Driven. In the words of Saint Ignatius of Loyola, now go forth and set the world on fire. --- Theme music composed by Scott Holmes, courtesy of freemusicarchive.org.

She took the MCAT 6 times, applied to med school 4 times, and went on 12 interviews. Now, she has 2 acceptances! What was her secret to finally breaking through? Links: Full Episode Blog Post Meded Media Summer Health Professions Education Program (SHPEP)

How hard is it to get into med school?Even before your pre-med, it wouldn’t hurt to do some research and know your options and how to improve your chances. And, It’s not just about GPAs and MCATs. I get into all of that and some tips and what you can act on right now to give you a better shot in getting into med schoolPre-Med Blueprint - Get Into Med School: http://bit.ly/2zsGS6lThe Pre-Med Journey on Amazon: https://amzn.to/2r79D47Hope yall enjoy!Don't forget to help our new project grow by subscribing on iTunes or your favorite podcast platform!Give us a Rating & Review to be entered for a weekly giveaway for a free eBook or Video Course!Subscribe to us onApple PodcastSpotify PodcastGoogle PodcastStitcher PodcastResources: FREE Step-By-Step Guide and Video Course on How I StudyFREE Step 1 MasterclassCheck Out Our YouTube Channel!Follow Me On Instagram

Helping HOMER study for the MCATs, BART expresses his admiration for his father. Later, brain-dead slob BARNEY GUMBLE, in his cushy job building monorail tracks, accidentally causes a crane to drop a MONORAIL car on a house while waving to HOMER. In bed, MARGE expresses her concern to HOMER about his desire to be a MONORAIL conductor. With Co-host Geoff Clarke and Guest Commentator Barm.

On TV, the TRUCKASAURUS commercial ends, and a commercial for the LYLE LANLEY INSTITUTE OF MONORAIL CONDUCTING plays, inspiring HOMER. On the first day of class, HOMER is in attendance as LYLE LANLEY asks a team of investigative reporters to leave. At home, BART helps HOMER practice for the MCATs. With Co-host Geoff Clarke and Guest Commentator Barm.

Drs. Adrienne and Alana Dixson chop it up in the studio while Dr. V reminiscences about the French Quarter.

Today we interview a general surgeon, Dr. Robert Jay Doiron. If you are considering applying to medical school, thinking about a career in medicine or becoming a general surgeon, then this episode is for you!Rob graciously shares his entire journey from high school, to college, to working at Boston Children’s Hospital, to taking the MCATs, to applying to medical school to interviewing for medical school, to his five-year general surgical residency, to his two years of research, to a year-long fellowship & finally, after 18 years of hard work, signing a contract for a job as a general surgeon. Find out what very telling question Rob got asked many times over his years as a med student.Rob was a wonderful guest! He's funny & full of great tips and advice. We so enjoyed our conversation with Rob and we hope you will too! Join Our Podcast Email List! Follow Our Podcast:Website: Listen To Our Podcast HereYouTube Channel Twitter LinkedIn Facebook InstagramAll Things College and CareerMeg's LinkedIn Bobbie's LinkedIn Music Production by Lena Keller: lena.m.keller@gmail.comTechnical Production: Richard BarnettSHOW NOTES:U.C. Davis Medical CenterBoston Children’s HospitalUniversity of Buffalo Jacobs School of Medicine & Biomedical SciencesStonehill CollegeUSMLE - STEP Exams Watch Rob's YouTube Video: Methamphetamine: A Timely Review

Pursuing a career in medicine isn't easy! Between the stresses of MCATs, medical school applications, rotations, it's easy to see how one can get burnt out quick. Luckily, Dr. Kate Weber has some wonderful advice to avoid that burnout! Explore masters programs, the importance of hobbies, and more with Bryce and Danae on this episode of Careers Unfiltered.

Sorry for the late upload!!! This week Flo and Kia discuss how we analyzed our MCATs, how we passed time waiting on our scores and how on earth we chose our schools! PS we got dogs lol so there’s random squeaks but it adds character! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/melanin-in-medicine/support

This week we are bringing to you a Midnight Memories throwback, a song discussion on One Direction's song "Alive"! Caitlin is not on this episode as she is busy studying for the MCATS, but two of our friends & listeners, Martha & Steph, joined me this week instead. We had a blast talking about this song and taking a little trip down memory lane. Check out Talk Direction Down Low on patreon.com/talkdirection for EXTRA PODCAST CONTENT!! Get in touch with us! talkdirection.tumblr.com talkdirection@gmail.com twitter// @talk_direction instagram// @talkdirection FOLLOW CAITLIN: @caitlinirfoster on twitter & instagram FOLLOW LUCIA: @lucciaoh on twitter & instagram FOLLOW MARTHA: @marthann85 on twitter & @vacaysbymartha on ig FOLLOW STEPH: @tithepaipear on twitter & @designsbysaka on twitter & ig

Join me for an enlightening discussion with David, a second year Queen's medical school student, as we talk life, failure and much more. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/mario-a/support

Acupuncturist, herbalist and women’s health & fertility expert, Aimee Raupp… Aimee Raupp joins Julie Chan in front of a live audience at Coresight Research to explore how to radically shift your body’s health, deal with autoimmune diseases, and address fertility issues. This is one of several episodes on the topic of pregnancy.  In this episode: Why Julie was inspired to reach out to Aimee, how she came in with fear about having a baby, had a lot of beliefes that she was physicaly weak Julie was seeking positive stories, saw something more than that, and can counter engrained beliefs How Aimee wanted to be a medical doctor, with an undergraduate in biology Not getting into medical school the first time she applied,  scoring low on her MCATS, and was traumatzied by that, and how this led her on a path Discovering her new path through series of synchronistic events Meeting people who were involved with acupuncture An “aha” moment Meeting a Chinese herbalist How Chinese medicine school felt natural for her to learn How acupuncture and diet and lifestyle and meditiation and mindfulness all work together Going into private practice No fear can be ignited when pregnant and post pregnant, can catch fear, energies vulnerable How our thoughts impact and dictate physiology When we’re not believing in ourselves How ideas can impact how your body responds How we attack ourselves emotionally the can make your body attack itself Autoimmune conditions “I am my illness” How you decide to support and nourish yourself supports that cellular renewal, don’t look back and beat yourself up, just accept this is where you are at Epigenetics, and how just because you have predisposition you can question and massage them by diet and lifestyle and a conversation with yourself, supporting yourself more than beating yourself up Cellular misidentification vs. Emotional misidentification – – slowly giving up parts of ourselves, prioritizing other people ahead of ourselves Ask yourself – how can I better nourish you? Our we living in stress hormones in places like NYC? What will happen when you start living a more loving thought? Inflammation will go down, will feel less under attack The route of self love, looking for ways to enjoy the experience you are in Inflexibility in women is an issue Compassion and kindness Aimee’s own stories of stress related eczema Listening to the screaming going on “on the inside” Finding belief, and a story of hope Paying attention to cues and triggers that create physicological symptoms Making a list of positive things to deal with difficult relationshipsGuest bio: Aimee Raupp, MS, LAc, is a renowned women’s health & wellness expert and the author of the books Chill Out & Get Healthy, Yes, You Can Get Pregnant, and Body Belief. A licensed acupuncturist and herbalist in private practice in New York, she holds a Master of Science degree in Traditional Oriental Medicine from the Pacific College of Oriental Medicine and a Bachelor’s degree in biology from Rutgers University. Aimee is also the founder of the Aimee Raupp Beauty line of hand-crafted, organic skincare products. She has appeared on The View, and has been featured in Glamour, Allure, Well + Good, GOOP, Shape, and Redbook, and has received endorsement from Deepak Chopra, Arianna Huffington, Dr. Christiane Northrup, and Gabby Bernstein for her work in helping thousands of women to improve their vitality, celebrate their beauty, and reconnect to the presence of their optimal health. Aimee is also an active columnist and blogger for Thrive Global, Acupuncture Today, MindBodyGreen, WellRounded NY, and Motherly, and is a frequent speaker at women’s health & wellness conferences across the nation. She engages her large community worldwide through her online programs and with her website, www.aimeeraupp.com.  

When you don't get into medical school, you may feel like your journey is over. It's not. The question is what to do next and that's what we talk about today. Links and Other Resources: Full Episode Blog Post Check out our Nontraditional Premed Forum, and ask a question of your own! Check out my Premed Playbook series of books (available on Amazon), with installments on the personal statement, the medical school interview, and the MCAT. Related episode: 54-Year-Old Med Student Overcame 5 MCATs, Rejection, and More Related episode: My Initial GPA Was a 1.8. Can I Still Get into Medical School? Need MCAT Prep? Save on tutoring, classes, and full-length practice tests by using promo code “MSHQ” at Next Step Test Prep!

What do you think of as "normal"? From an early age, Daniel Eisenman questioned what he was told is "normal" - the standard way that he and others were supposed to be. At first, he played around with "breaking normal" - like many teenagers do - by challenging the rules set around him, and acting a bit reckless. But for the most part he stayed on track. After high school, he went to college, and chose to study pre-med, like all the good kids did, and like his parents wanted. He graduated and took the MCATs. But as applications to med school approached he started to question this "normal" path more fundamentally. Something within him knew there was more to his life, and his role in the world, and he decided to take a year off. That year has since become ten (& counting). He hasn't stopped or resumed his former course. Instead, what he found while taking time off from the prescribed path is that there are, actually, infinite ways to live your life. “Normal" is just a conditioned story - unique to each of us, and the story we specifically were told. At first, he sought how "to get paid to do the things he would pay to do", leading to all sorts of adventures that defy our normal beliefs about what we must do to make money. Along the way of following his fun, he saw his idea of fun change. What became most fun, and most exciting, actually, was being true to himself, and serving others in a way that was aligned with his values and beliefs. Every day for Daniel now is adventure in following his own fun, excitement and alignment. He travels often, around the country and the world, lives in vibrant health, enjoys a passionate love relationship, and these days, is most awed by his 1-year-old daughter, Divina, who last year became a viral star with him online as he OM'd her to sleep. Daniel is a real, open-hearted, generous guy who lives a wildly epic life and wants you to know you can, too. Enjoy! The post OS62: Daniel Eisenman – The #OmDaddy on Fun & Breaking the Paradigm of “Normal” appeared first on Ownstream.

“Be open-minded and bring snacks.” Dr. Meggie is back! Meggie Smith made her Ali on the Run Show debut last year, when she was wrapping up her OB/GYN residency at the NYU Langone Medical Center in New York City. After graduating, Meggie moved to California, where she’s currently pursuing her fellowship in reproductive endocrinology and infertility at the University of Southern California. On Part II of this two-part episode, Meggie answers listener questions about fertility, infertility, and giving birth, plus all kinds of personal stuff, like what med school is really like, what it takes to gross her out, how to date when you’re constantly on call, and whether delivering babies every day makes her want one more or less. And listen to the very end, because the last question of this episode might be my favorite. What you’ll get in this episode: How long do healthy couples try for a baby? (1:30) What can I do now to become pregnant in a couple years? (4:00) Is it ever too early to start taking pre-natal vitamins? (5:50) Is mid- to late-thirties too late to have kids? (6:20) How long should you wait to conceive after traveling to a country with the Zika virus? (9:20) Birth stuff: Meggie’s thoughts on epidural vs. drug-free births (10:20) What do OB/GYNs really think about birth plans? (11:40) Meggie’s best advice for someone going into labor & the biggest myth about labor (14:00) Postpartum stuff — including why you’re peeing a little when you run (15:15) Are some vaginas weird? (19:20) Meggie’s best advice for studying for the MCATs (21:00) Meggie’s experience with burnout (26:00) Dating & doctoring (28:00) Whether delivering babies every day makes Meggie want one more or less (32:25) What we mention on this episode: Meggie Smith on Episode 61 of the Ali on the Run Show Meggie Smith on Episode 27 of the Ali on the Run Show NYU Langone Medical Center University of Southern California United Airlines NYC Half Every Mother Counts Meggie's Every Mother Counts / NYC Half fundraiser Jamie & Jeff’s Birth Plan via McSweeney’s Abby Bales on Episode 49 of the Ali on the Run Show Queer Eye for the Straight Guy Think Coffee One More Shot on Netflix Follow Meggie: Instagram @mbsthinks Twitter @mbsthinks Blog Follow Ali: Instagram @aliontherun1 Facebook Twitter @aliontherun1 Blog Strava Listen & Subscribe: Apple Podcasts SoundCloud Overcast Stitcher Google Play SUPPORT the Ali on the Run Show! If you’re enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. Spread the run love. And if you liked this episode, share it with your friends!

https://hankweisingerphd.com/ Performing Under Pressure: The Science of Doing Your Best When It Matters Most How do you perform under pressure? -Can you summon your talent at will? -Can you deliver on a test? -Can you sleep at night? In this episode, Dr. Hank Weisinger discusses: Performing Under Pressure The difference between Stress and Pressure The Anatomy of Choking How pressure affects our thinking Pressure Traps Students are under more pressure than ever before. Here are 7 students who need to listen to this episode. Which one are you? • The High School Student under pressure to meet parental expectations, ace SATs, be accepted by a top school, participate in extracurricular activities, play a sport, instrument or both, get your driver’s license, and find a prom date. • The College Student under pressure to fit into a new environment, make friends, pledge a frat or sorority, constant exams, declare a major, answer parental questions such as “What are you going to do after college? “ get a job, take LSATs, MCATs, GREs, become financially independent and other nightmares. • The Graduate Student under pressure to please professors, publish research, write grants, live cheaply, pass comprehensive exams, and complete a dissertation. • The Law Student, under pressure to excel, works hard to make the law review, present cases, find summer clerkships, learn to think more critically, pass the bar, graduate and enter the grind, and eventually pay back their loans. • The Medical Student under pressure to master organic chemistry, memorize information daily, excel in an internship, perform in do or die moments, cope with death, match for a residency, pay back loans and adapt to the changing business of health care. • The Performing Arts Student under pressure to act, dance or sing for their supper — or try and balance a second job while mastering their craft. • The Adult Student under pressure to readjust to student life, maintain a job, support a family, and finish their degree quickly. Nobody performs better under pressure. Regardless of the task, pressure ruthlessly diminishes our judgment, decision making, attention, dexterity, and performance in every professional and personal arena. In Performing Under Pressure, Drs. Hendrie Weisinger and J.P. Pawliw-Fry introduce us to the concept of pressure management, offering empirically tested short-term and long-term solutions to help us overcome the debilitating effects of pressure. Performing Under Pressure tackles the greatest obstacle to personal success, whether in a sales presentation, at home, on the golf course, interviewing for a job, or performing onstage at Carnegie Hall. Despite sports mythology, no one rises to the occasion under pressure and does better than they do in practice. The reality is pressure makes us do worse and sometimes leads us to fail utterly. But there are things we can do to diminish its effects on our performance. Performing Under Pressure draws on research from more than 12,000 people, and features the latest research from neuroscience and from the frontline experiences of Fortune 500 employees and managers, Navy SEALS, Olympic and other elite athletes, and others. It offers 22 specific strategies each of us can use to reduce pressure in our personal and professional lives and allow us to excel better in whatever we do. Whether you're a corporate manager, a basketball player, or a student preparing for the SAT, Performing Under Pressure will help you do your best when it matters most.    

Renee is a former Nurse Educator turned medical student. Always wanting to be a physician, she battled through poor MCAT scores, a failed application and more. Links and Other Resources Full Episode Blog Post Check out my Premed Playbook series of books (available on Amazon), with installments on the personal statement, the medical school interview, and the MCAT. Related episode: Interview with a 56-year-old Medical Student. Related episode: How Old Is Too Old to Start Medical School? Need MCAT Prep? Save on tutoring, classes, and full-length practice tests by using promo code “MSHQ” at Next Step Test Prep!

Do you follow your "Yes?"Following your "Yes" is about you taking a step forward in your partnerships by taking action and applying at least one thing you heard from our guests during their interviews this week. On today’s episode, all of this week’s guests have generously provided BONUS MATERIAL, not included in the interviews you listened to earlier this week. Each one has provided incredible examples of the power of following your “Yes”. Enjoy! Daniel EisenmanNot Following - Daniel use to use the word “shoulda” a lot. And when he heard himself doing this he was aware he was kind of looking to soak in the power of patheticness/regret/blaming circumstances. Anytime he used the work “shoulda” was a time he let go of following his intuition. It was like his check engine light. Following - Daniel followed his “Yes” by not going to medical school. He put so much into the MCATs and studying pre-med. And all his friends were going to medical school. By following his “Yes” Daniel was able to follow something that was deeper than what he “should” do. Not going to medical school was a little scarier and felt more freeing and sparked the most joy for him. His life has been much more improved and successful by not going to medical school. Listen to Daniel’s full interview here (https://speakingofpartnership.com/067-daniel-eisenman/) Connect with Daniel- Daniel's Website (http://www.BreakingNormal.TV) Daniel's Facebook Link (http://www.Facebook.com/DanielEisenman) BreakingNormal Podcast on iTunes (http://apple.co/25KwQt7) Daniel on Twitter (http://www.Twitter.com/DanielEisenman) Daniel on Instagram (http://www.Instagram.com/DanielEisenman) Orna & Matthew WaltersNot Following - When Matthew was single in his mid-30s there was a woman he had known who had made it clear that she was interested in him. They ended up going to dinner and sleeping together. The next day, in the guise of Matthew being honest with her, he told her he did not see this going anywhere. And she said “Oh I do. I’ll prove it to you.” Everything inside him was saying “I don’t think I’m gonna change my mind. I don’t think my feelings are going to change about you.”  But instead of holding true to his “Yes” they proceeded to have a crazy relationship, where he thought he was getting company and intimacy whenever he wanted it and she was falling deeper and deeper for him. Matthew finally realized he was out of integrity and was doing nothing but harm to her and himself by staying in the relationship. Following - Matthew and Orna met through a business networking group. They had been in this group for about a year and never spoken to each other. One morning Orna sat at Matthew’s table and something told him he needed to talk to her. It was a curiosity.  Instead of asking her on a date, he asked her on a one-on-one business networking meeting. And that meeting went on for about 3 hours and they really haven’t been apart since. Listen to Orna & Matthew's full interview here (https://speakingofpartnership.com/068-orna-matthew-walters/) Connect with Orna & Matthew - Orna & Matthew's Website (http://www.creatingloveonpurpose.com/) - Creating Love on Purpose Orna & Matthew's Facebook Link (https://www.facebook.com/OrnaAndMatthew/) Orna & Matthew on Twitter (https://twitter.com/OrnaAndMatthew) (https://speakingofpartnership.com/069-follow-your-yes-friday-18/)

About this episode Our special guest is Jeff Agostinelli, a life and business coach, and the host of The Next Level podcast.  Jeff spent a couple of years of his life studying the MCATs and getting ready to go to medical school to prepare for life as a doctor.  But along the way, something didn’t feel […]

Brian is about to study for the MCATs. I give my suggestions for creating the best system possible to remember this massive amount of information. What do you want to learn? Leave your question at http://MasterOfMemory.com/. Music credit: Maurice Ravel’s String Quartet, 2nd movement, performed by the US Army Band.

Brian talks about his long journey to medical school that includes 4 applications cycles and 9 MCAT tests! Listen to what he has learned on his path. Links and Other Resources: Full Episode Blog Post Check out my Premed Playbook series of books (available on Amazon), with installments on the personal statement, the medical school interview, and the MCAT. Related episode: MCAT Retakes: Change and Improve to Get the Score You Want. Related episode: 54-year-old Med Student Overcame 5 MCATs, Rejection, and More. Need MCAT Prep? Save on tutoring, classes, and full-length practice tests by using promo code “MSHQ” for 10% off Next Step full-length practice tests or “MSHQTOC” for $50 off MCAT tutoring or the Next Step MCAT Course at Next Step Test Prep!

Shay is the author of the book Getting Into Medical School: The Ultimate Guide for the Anxious Premed. Listen to her journey and how she overcame mistakes. Links and Other Resourceshttps://medicalschoolhq.net/mshq-103-she-made-every-mistake-possible-yet-is-still-a-medical-student/ (Full Episode Blog Post) Check out my https://medicalschoolhq.net/books (Premed Playbook) series of books (available on https://medicalschoolhq.net/books (Amazon)), with installments on http://amzn.to/2EhxhRf (the personal statement), http://amzn.to/2lHXoux (the medical school interview), and https://amzn.to/2vVQpU5 (the MCAT). Related episode: https://medicalschoolhq.net/mshq-143-overcoming-obstacles-on-her-way-to-medical-school/ (Overcoming Obstacles on Her Way to Medical School). Related episode: https://medicalschoolhq.net/pmy-229-54-year-old-med-student-overcame-5-mcats-rejection-and-more/ (54-year-old Med Student Overcame 5 MCATs, Rejection, and More). Need MCAT Prep? Save on tutoring, classes, and full-length practice tests by using promo code "MSHQ" at https://medicalschoolhq.net/nextstep (Blueprint MCAT (formerly Next Step Test Prep))!

Shay is the author of the book Getting Into Medical School: The Ultimate Guide for the Anxious Premed. Listen to her journey and how she overcame mistakes. Links and Other Resources Full Episode Blog Post Check out my Premed Playbook series of books (available on Amazon), with installments on the personal statement, the medical school interview, and the MCAT. Related episode: Overcoming Obstacles on Her Way to Medical School. Related episode: 54-year-old Med Student Overcame 5 MCATs, Rejection, and More. Need MCAT Prep? Save on tutoring, classes, and full-length practice tests by using promo code “MSHQ” at Next Step Test Prep!

After graduating from UC Berkeley with a degree in Molecular Cell Biology and taking the MCATs, Miles Clark decided to not pursue medical school. He moved to Tahoe to start “ski bumming” and has yet to look back. Miles is the founder of snowbrains.com. Check out Miles's meister profile: www.mtnmeister.com/miles-clark

In today’s episode, I talk with Danielle Ward as she shares about her own share of successes and failures on the path to medical school. Danielle was rejected from medical school twice. She also took the MCAT 4 times over 5 years to finally get an acceptance at the Georgia Campus of Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine. Links and Other Resources: Full Episode Blog Post Follow Danielle’s journey on her blog, aspiringminoritydoctor.com. Related episode: 54-year-old Med Student Overcame 5 MCATs, Rejection, and More. Related episode: 1st Year of Medical School for a Nontraditional Premed. Need MCAT Prep? Save on tutoring, classes, and full-length practice tests by using promo code “MSHQ” for 10% off Next Step full-length practice tests or “MSHQTOC” for $50 off MCAT tutoring or the Next Step MCAT Course at Next Step Test Prep!

What does it take to get into medical school and to excel once you have been admitted? In a live "Office Hours" webcast interview, Dr. Ed Buckley, vice dean for education for Duke's School of Medicine, discusses the MCATs, medical school applications and the future of medical education. Duke's School of Medicine's curriculum differs from some other medical schools. Students study the basic sciences for one year instead of two, giving them the opportunity to devote their entire third year to a scholarly research project. Students care for patients during their second year. In his role as vice dean for education, Buckley oversees the development of the medical school curriculum. He was instrumental in developing the school's new Mary Duke Biddle Trent Semans Center for Health Education and has worked closely with the Duke-NUS Graduate Medical School Singapore to create a research-oriented medical school in Singapore modeled after Duke's curriculum. Buckley, who attended Duke for both undergraduate and medical school, is a professor of ophthalmology and pediatrics and division chief for pediatric and neuro-ophthalmology. His research focuses on treatment of complicated eye muscle problems and congenital cataracts. He has published six books, 35 book chapters and more than 100 peer-reviewed articles. "Office Hours" is Duke's live webcast series for the university community, and others, to engage with professors about their research and scholarship.

Summary of today's show: On our regular Thursday show, Scot Landry, Susan Abbott, Fr. Roger Landry, and Antonio Enrique consider the news headlines of the week, including last weekend's performance of Kiko Arguello's symphonic homage “The Suffering of the Innocents” in Boston; CatholicTV's Gabriel Award; Massachusetts as the most Catholic state; a parish's mortgage burning to honor a former pastor; youth ministry awards; priest assignments; and safeguarding the Catholic identity of colleges. Listen to the show: Today's host(s): Scot Landry and Susan Abbott Today's guest(s): Fr. Roger Landry, executive editor of The Anchor, the newspaper of the Fall River diocese; and Antonio Enrique, editor of The Pilot, the newspaper of the Boston archdiocese Links from today's show: Some of the stories discussed on this show will be available on The Pilot's and The Anchor's websites on Friday morning. Please check those sites for the latest links. Today's topics: Catholic symphony; CatholicTV; most Catholic state; mortgage-burning; youth ministry awards; Catholic identity 1st segment: Scot and Susan discussed the religious education office's Mass and graduation ceremony for the Spanish-language two-year leadership program for parish volunteers, which will occur tonight. Everyone involved volunteers in their parish and they meet every Saturday for two years from 1-5pm. They will go back to their parishes with solid foundation in theology and skills in catechetics, hospital ministry, youth ministry, and more. Scot said the Catholic Media secretariat is also working with the Hispanic Apostolate on helping them with more Spanish-language radio programming. Susan said Cardinal Seán will participate in the graduation tonight. Scot said Susan, Antonio and himself were present on Sunday for the symphony of the “Suffering of the Innocents” composed by Kiko Arguello. Antonio was one of the organizers and more than 2,000 people attended. The vast majority were Catholics, but there were also representatives of the Jewish community were present. Scot said he was moved by quotes from members of the Jewish community. “I had tears in my eyes when everyone sang the Shema,” said Robert Liekind, director of the American Jewish Committee. “It was immensely moving. The sense of our common heritage, our common roots, really came out.” “This couldn't have been possible 50 years ago,” added Rabbi Barry Starr from Temple Israel in Sharon. “We have made a lot of strides on the path of reconciliation, and I am truly grateful that I was here to witness to this.” “This has been moving and touching to my heart,” Rabbi Starr added. Marybeth Bisson, parishioner at Most Precious Blood Parish of Dover, also said she also was moved by the symphony. “We have been to a lot of symphonies,” Bisson said. “This was everything they said it was going to be and more. Absolutely phenomenal.” Scot heard that from many others who were present. Scot said he had high expectations and those expectations were surpassed. Antonio said the organizers were happy with how it went and Cardinal Seán was as well. He said some a Jewish rabbi told him they felt like part of the community and he felt loved. This contrasts with the old prejudices and animosities that existed at times and in some places between Christians and Jews. Antonio said these Jewish-Catholic relations are becoming more of a movement and not just theologians talking. The singing of the Shema Yisrael was a key part of that unity. They discussed how Mary is an icon of the suffering of Christ, helping us to enter into the suffering in our lives with our eye on Christ, seeing how she accepted the sword of suffering that would pierce her heart, as the prophet foretold. The wages of sin are death, as St. Paul says, and Christ takes the suffering upon himself to give us a new and different life. Mary is at the center of that renewal. Scot said a moving moment was when everyone in the audience chanted a prayer to Mary with the choir. Susan said just being in Symphony Hall was beautiful and then Cardinal Seán quoted Dostoevsky: “The prince says that the world will be saved by beauty!” She also said she was unsure what to expect from an artist who composes music, but it was so lovely. Fr. Roger Landry said Pope Benedict said the greatest evangelization force, the means by which to bring people to conversion, is the beauty of the art the Church has produced and the beauty of the saints. When God produces these great acts of beauty, it brings us to the Source of Beauty, which is God. Great symphonies, great cathedrals, great pieces of art help us to understand who we really are and become mirrors of the beauty of the Lord. When we look back to St. Thomas Aquinas, in addition to his 50 volumes of theology, he also produced some of our greatest Eucharistic hymsn we still sing today. He recognized that the beauty of God and our faith couldn't just be expressed in philosophical and theological prosaic sentences. They had to be expressed too in poetry and music. Antonio said CatholicTV was there and did many interviews and they also taped the whole catechetical experience. He expects them to have a special program. He said the plan is to put it online somewhere. There was also discussion of how it resonated with many how the very Brahmin Symphony Hall was the site of this Catholic and Jewish event. Also, regarding CatholicTV, they were awarded Television Station of the Year by the Gabriel Awards along with EWTN. This is the second time they were honored. It shows how the two national Catholic television networks are bringing people to God. Fr. Roger said in age when so many people watch TV and watch videos on the Internet that the Church take advantage of this new . He said both networks are doing high quality work with very good content. For many people who are homebound, this is their connection to the Church. Also, this week, a headline shows that the latest shows that Massachusetts has passed Rhode Island as the state with the highest percentage of Catholic population. Antonio said realistically it means that the Catholic population dropped a little slower than it did in Rhode Island. Antonio and Susan agreed that it might be due to the number of Catholic immigrants coming into MAssachusetts versus Rhode Island. In Massachusetts, the Catholic population is 44.9%, but what's really telling is that weekly Mass attendance is 1 out of 6 Catholics. We should not stop until we can raise that number much higher. Rhode Island's Catholic population has dropped by 14%. Fr. Roger said he agrees that the influx of immigrants is responsible and we have a greater responsibility because of our greater numbers. We have to help people who call themselves Catholics to respond to a renewal of their faith. To whom more is given, much is to be expected. Scot said Holy Family Parish in Duxbury honored their longtime former pastor with a mortgage burning ceremony. Msgr. William Glynn was pastor for more than 25 years before entering Senior Priest status a few yearsago. Susan said the article ends with a great quote: In the spirit of care for priests and the priesthood, he repeated a message he gave in his homily. He pointed to the need for young men to step up and serve in the priesthood, and called upon lay people to encourage vocations. “It has been a great life to have been a priest. I regret that there are not more vocations,” he said. Scot said most parishes have some sort of a debt, but many leaders in Holy Family wanted to retire this mortgage as a way to honor Msgr. Glynn who had seen this parish built and worked had to put this parish in a great financial position. It's a testament of a connection by a parish family to their spiritual father for many years. Antonio said Catholicism is about community. Community meets and gathers around their pastors. Even in canon law that pastors are to meet and care for everyone in their parish, not just the Catholics. Antonio said he'd never heard of mortgage burning before so he wanted to make sure to cover the event in the Pilot. Scot said he was struck by how much Msgr. Glynn wanted to retire this debt on behalf of the parish. It highlights the pastor's role as both a spiritual leader, but also as a leader in the more mundane needs of life. Fr. Roger said the great pastors are those who want to provide for those entrusted to them. Msgr. Glynn didn't want to pass on debt to his successors. Most priests leaving a parish want to leave their house in order. But it's not just a gift to his successor but to his spiritual children, grandchildren, and now great-grandchildren. The people witness his commitment to them. Also in the Pilot this week was the annual awards banquet for Office for the New Evangelization of Youth and Young Adults, recognizing the great work being done by many people in many parishes. They honored 120 youth, young adults, and their leaders in ministry in 46 parishes throughout the Archdiocese. Antonio said everyone recognized were models of Catholic life. Susan said she was impressed by the ONE office's organization of the event. She said one of the awards was to Marge Costa, a teacher at Ursuline Academy, who taught Susan's daughters. Fr. Mike Harrington won an award and had a fan club of about 100 people. Deacon Jim Greer and his wife Terri won the Norm Plante Awards in honor of their work in youth ministry. Scot said the Fall River diocese also recognizes young people and those who minister to them. Fr. Roger said everyone recognizes that peer pressure among kids is a reality. These kinds of award ceremonies give positive peer pressure to lift up young people living their faith with great joy and even heroism as examples for them to follow. Fr. Roger likes to embarrass the award winners at the end of Mass by recognizing them in front of the whole community. Also in the Pilot was an announcement of five priest assignments. Fr. Shawn Carey, one of the few deaf priests in the US, has been named director of the Office of the Deaf Apostolate. Fr. Alonso Macias is leaving his three parishes in Roxbury and Jamaica Plain and is assigned to a growing Spanish-speaking community in Marlborough. Replacing him is Fr. Carlos Flor, who is moving from Immaculate Conception in Revere. Fr. Patrick McLaughlin will be leaving as administrator of St. Joseph in Medford and entering senior priest status. Fr. Bob Carr, pastor of St. Benedict in Somerville, will be accepting a new assignment soon as well. Scot said the Pilot also profiles Fr. John Delaney who's the new pastor of Sacred Hearts in Haverhill. Antonio said he comes to the parish with a wealth of experience in that area of the Archdiocese. Fr. Delaney was quoted as saying, “1 try to live my priesthood always keeping in mind the philosophy, ‘How can I help you to get closer to God?' My goal is to be a holy prayerful priest who is available to people to journey with them in life.” Scot said he's extremely well-respected for his work at St. Michael's in Andover, one of the largest in the Archdiocese. Susan said she was surprised to learn that Fr. Delaney has two Master's degrees, one in chemistry and another in environmental engineering. 2nd segment: Scot said this week's editorial in the Anchor talks about genuine Catholic colleges and universities. It's been in the news lately with the decision of Anna Maria College outside of Worcester rescinding a commencement invitation to Victoria Kennedy. Pope BEnedict also spoke on this to US bishops on their ad limina visits. Fr. Roger said Pope Benedict recognizes that Catholic education is key to spreading the Gospel. In college, it's where many young people are beginning to choose the trajectory of their life. This means that there needs to be an authentic Catholic culture, not just a religion class and a chapel on campus. Unfortunately, many young people leave Catholic colleges having lost their faith. He noted that Vicki Kennedy has made public statements in support of abortion and same-sex marriage and so inviting her to get an honorary degree and give her a platform to speak to the students would be difficult. In the editorial, Fr. Roger writes: If Yeshiva University invited Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for a debate and discussion, it might even be a sign of magnanimity, peacemaking and institutional self-confidence. But if Yeshiva were to ask him to speak to the graduates at commencement and give him an honorary degree, everyone would wonder whether it had lost its identity, not to mention marbles. … There's a reason why Howard University never invited — and never would have considered inviting — Strom Thurmond for an honorary doctorate. Even if in all other parts of his life he were a consummate gentleman, even if he had done many other things for many other people through public service, he would still not be invited because of the strident support of racism in his political ascent. Catholic institutions of higher learning should have as high standards with regard to potential honorees' positions on abortion and marriage and other fundamental issues of the Catholic faith as historically black institutions have had with regard to racism. Fr. Roger said God bless Bishop McManus for recognizing this action would call into question Anna Maria College's commitment to their Catholic identity. Bishop McManus was disinvited to the commencement by the students, which is an indication of the culture at the college. The Catholic identity needs to be reinforced there. As Catholics we can't support the killing of babies in the womb or undermining the meaning of marriage. Catholic universities and colleges ought to be distinguished by preparing students not just for life but eternal life, not just for work but for mission, not just for LSATs, MCATs, and GREs but for the eschatological final exam. The choices that a Catholic college or university makes — selecting administrators and faculty members, allocating resources, determining admissions standards, and even choosing commencement speakers — should always be in harmony with the faith and reflect these genuinely Catholic priorities. Scot said it's a controversial issue only because the Church hasn't embraced the ideal we all should support Church teachings on life issues. Susan said the two examples Fr. Roger gave are good illustrations. It's not we don't invite people who disagree with us ever, but the context of the address is important. She noted the Pope aid young people have a right to hear the teaching of the Church. Antonio was happy to see the Pope say the key problem here is we need to witness to the faith, but we are in a moment where there is no absolute truth, but whatever we think is true is what's important. Susan noted we have to have a well-formed conscience. Scot said bishops have a job to do to ensure that any institution that has Catholic as part of its identity live up to the ideals of the faith and don't send out mixed messages.