Podcasts about Edwards Air Force Base

I have been anticipating having the opportunity to speak with Carl Amari on an episode of Unstoppable Mindset for several months. Carl and I share a passion for vintage radio programs sometimes called “old time radio shows”. Carl heard his first broadcast in 1975 when he heard Cary Grant staring in a program from the 20-year long series entitled “Suspense”. That program left the air in 1962, but like other shows, some radio stations kept it alive later.   Carl's interest in vintage programs goes far beyond the over 100,000 transcription master's he has amassed. He has also created some programs of his own. For example, in 2002 Carl asked for and received the rights to recreate the television show, “The Twilight Zone” for a radio audience. He used many famous actors while recreating the series. He talks about what he did and how he brought “The Twilight Zone” to life on the radio.   He also has dramatized five versions of the bible. His most well-known work is “The Word Of Promise Bible”. When I first purchased that bible from Audible, I had no idea that Carl was its creator.   Carl Amari is quite a creative guy making movies, collecting and producing radio programs and he even hosts podcasts.   I hope you have as much fun listening to this episode as I did in creating it with Carl. We definitely will have him back as he has many more stories to tell.       About the Guest:   Carl Amari has been licensing classic radio shows from the owners and estates since 1990.  He has amassed a library of 100,000+ master recordings.  Amari broadcasts these golden-age of radio shows on his 5-hour radio series, Hollywood 360, heard on 100+ radio stations coast-to-coast each week.  Amari is also the Host/Producer of The WGN Radio Theatre heard each weekend on legendary Chicago radio station, WGN AM 720. Amari is the founder and curator of The Classic Radio Club.  Each month Amari selects the best-of-the-best from his classic radio library to send to members.   Amari is also a published author.  In 1996, he began writing a series of books about classic radio for The Smithsonian Institute.  More recently, he teamed with fellow classic radio expert, Martin Grams, to co-write the best-selling coffee-table cook “The Top 100 Classic Radio Shows” (available at Amazon).  Each bi-monthly, Amari writes a classic radio-themed column titled “Good Old Days on the Radio” for the nostalgia publication Good Old Days Magazine.   In 2002, Amari licensed the intellectual property, The Twilight Zone, from CBS and The Rod Serling estate to create and produce The Twilight Zone Radio Dramas, which are fully dramatized audio adaptations based on Rod Serling's Emmy-Award winning TV series.  Hosted by prolific actor Stacy Keach, each hour-long radio drama features a Hollywood celebrity in the title role.  The Twilight Zone Radio Dramas has won numerous awards of excellence including The Audie Award, AFTRA's American Scene Award and the XM Nation Award for Best Radio Drama on XM.  The Twilight Zone Radio Dramas are broadcast coast-to-coast each week on nearly 100 radio stations.    In 2007, Amari parlayed his experience and passion for radio theatre and love for the Bible into the creation of the award-winning Word of Promise celebrity-voiced, dramatized audio Bible published by Christian giant Thomas Nelson, Inc.  The New Testament won 2008's highest Evangelical award, The Christian Book of the Year.  The Word of Promise stars Jim Caviezel (“The Passion of the Christ”) reprising his film role as Jesus, with Michael York, Terence Stamp, Lou Gossett, Jr., Marisa Tomei, Lou Diamond Phillips, Ernie Hudson, Kimberly-Williams Paisley and many other celebrities voicing roles of the New Testament.  In 2008, Amari produced The Word of Promise Old Testament featuring more than 400 actors including: Jon Voight, Gary Sinise, Richard Dreyfuss, Max von Sydow, Malcolm McDowell, Joan Allen, John Rhys-Davies, Sean Astin, Marcia Gay Harden and Jesse McCartney. The Old Testament was combined with the New Testament and released as The Word of Promise Complete audio Bible in 2009 and has won numerous awards, including three Audie awards.  The Word of Promise has become the #1 selling audio Bible of all time.  In 2009, Amari produced The Truth & Life Dramatized Audio Bible: New Testament, a Catholic Bible featuring Neal McDonough, John Rhys-Davies, Malcolm McDowell, Kristen Bell, Blair Underwood, Julia Ormond, Brian Cox, Sean Astin and other celebrities.  It was released by Zondervan Corporation, the largest religious publisher in the world.  Amari secured an Imprimatur from The Vatican and a foreword by Pope Benedict XVI for The Truth & Life Dramatized Audio Bible: New Testament, which has become the #1 selling Catholic audio Bible in the world.  In 2016, Amari produced The Breathe Audio Bible for Christian Publisher Tyndale House.  Celebrities voicing roles include Ashley Judd, Josh Lucas, Kevin Sorbo, Hill Harper, John Rhys-Davies and Corbin Bleu.  Amari currently produces a weekly radio series based on this audio Bible called The Breathe Radio Theatre hosted by Kevin Sorbo, heard on Christian radio stations coast-to-coast.    In 2000, Amari produced the feature film Madison starring Jim Caviezel, Bruce Dern, Jake Lloyd, Mary McCormack and John Mellencamp.  In 2001, Madison was invited by Robert Redford to be the opening film at Redford's prestigious Sundance Film Festival.  Madison was later released worldwide by MGM.  Amari also spends his time creating television series for Warner Brothers and Gulfstream Pictures.  Amari's latest film projects include producing, Wireman, starring Scott Eastwood and Andy Garcia, a true-story set in 1978 Chicago and Crossed, a Zombie Post-Apocalyptic story by The Boys creator Garth Ennis.  Both films will be released in 2025.   Amari's company was twice named to the INC. 500 list of fastest growing privately-held companies.  He was selected as one of Chicago's Very Own by Tribune Broadcasting and his business accomplishments have been highlighted in The Wall Street Journal, The Chicago Sun-Times, The Chicago Tribune, Variety, INC. 500, The Associated Press, Entertainment Weekly, The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times and The New York Post. Ways to connect Carl:   https://www.hollywood360radio.com/   https://classicradioclub.com/   https://ultimateclassicradio.com/   You can also provide my email address: Carl@ClassicRadioClub.com   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hello to you all, wherever you may be, welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Oh, it's always good to have an unstoppable mindset. I am really very joy today. I'm really happy because I get to have an hour to chat with someone who I've admired for a while, although I haven't told him that but he, I first heard him on a show. Well, he did a show called Yeah, on a program called yesterday USA, which is a program that plays old radio shows on now two different networks. They have a red network and a blue network, so they have emulated NBC, and they're on 24 hours a day, doing a lot of old radio stuff. And I've been collecting radio shows for a long time, although our guest, Carl has has done, in a broad sense, a lot more than I have. But anyway, he collects shows. He does a lot with master copies of radio shows, and I don't, don't have that many masters, but he's also done some other things. For example, in 2002 he acquired the rights from CBS and the Rod Serling estate to create Twilight Zone radio, and he is created versions for radio of all of the Twilight Zone broadcasts. The other thing that he did that I didn't realize until I got his bio, is that he created something else that I purchased from Audible, probably in 2008 or 2009 the Word of Promise Bible, where he got a number of entertainers and and special people and Celebrities like Michael York and others to create the Bible, and it's only 98 hours long. So you know, it takes a little while to read, but still, it's worth doing. So I would like to introduce you all to Carl Amari and Carl, welcome to unstoppable mindset. Michael,   Carl Amari ** 03:14 thank you so much for having me. It's a real honor. Thanks so much.   Michael Hingson ** 03:19 Well, the honor is, is mine as well. I really am glad that that you're here and we do get to talk about radio and all sorts of whatever comes along. Well, I want to start this way. Tell me about kind of the early Carl, growing up and all that well for an opening, yeah. Gosh,   Carl Amari ** 03:35 that was a long time ago, but when I was 12 years old in 1975 I heard my first classic radio show. It was an episode of suspense, and it starred Cary Grant in a show called on a country road. Yeah, and I was at a sleepover at my friend's house, and we were kind of rowdy, as as 12 year olds will be. And his father had this show, I think it was on an eight track tape or a cassette tape, and he played it, and it was the first time I ever experienced theater of the mind. And I, you know, grew up watching Batman and the Twilight Zone and Wild Wild West, and I had never had anything, you know, that that really, really just blew me away, like hearing a radio drama where you hear the the actors performing, and you see the, you know, they have the sound effects and the music, and it creates this movie in your mind. And I was at a 12 as 12 years old. I was just completely just, you know, flabbergasted, and I wanted to learn all I could about classic radio and and so I spent, really my entire career, the last 40 plus years, licensing and putting out these radio shows, licensing from. The estates and putting them out on radio and on CD and digital download and so forth.   Michael Hingson ** 05:06 Cool. Yeah, I remember on a country road the first show. Well, I remember a few times my parents were listening to radio in the early 50s, and I think one of the first ones I heard was Dick Tracy, but I don't even remember that, but I think it was 1957 in October or so. I was listening to the radio, and all of a sudden I heard, and one of my maybe it was 58 but anyway, one of my favorite songs at the time was Tom Dooley by the Kingston Trio, and this announcement came up that on suspense this Sunday would be the story of Tom Dooley. And I went, Oh, that's Oh, right, right. Listen to that. And I did, and I was hooked for the very same reasons that you were radio really presents you the opportunity to picture things in in your own mind, in a sense, the way you want. And what they do in the radio production is get actors who can draw you in, but the whole idea is for you to picture it in your own mind. So I did it with Tom Dooley, and I got hooked. And I was listening to suspense and yours truly Johnny dollar ever since that day. And then also Gun Smoke and Have Gun Will Travel came along, and then that was fun.   Carl Amari ** 06:23 Yeah, those were those shows that you just mentioned. They were on still in the 50s. Because when you think of the golden age of radio, it was really the 30, late 30s all the way to the very early 50s, golden age of radio. But there were hangers on. There was Johnny dollar, and, like you said, suspense. And you know, some of these programs that were still on fiber, McGee and Molly, even, you know, Jack Benny, were still on during the 50s. And then, of course, most of the shows made the transition to the visual medium of television. But the eyes, I still say, you know, today, listening to these radio shows is more fun, and I think they're more impactful than the television versions. Oh,   Michael Hingson ** 07:07 I think so by any standard. I think that's true. And gun Well, let's see. Suspense went into, I think 1962 Johnny dollar did, and suspense and Gunsmoke and Have Gun Will Travel. Started on television, actually, but then transitioned to radio. There were a few shows, a few of the plots that actually were on both, yes, but John Danner played Paladin on the radio, and that was fun. And then, of course, Gunsmoke as well. So they, they, they all went into the 60s, which was kind of kind of cool, yeah.   Carl Amari ** 07:43 And usually they had, you know, sometimes they had the same cast, and other times a completely different cast, like with Gunsmoke, you know, William Conrad was Marshall Matt Dillon on on radio. And, of course, people remember him as canon on television, also Nero Wolf on television. But William Conrad, who was probably in more radio shows than anyone I can think of. Yeah, was, was Marshall, Matt Dillon, and then on on television, of course, James Arness, so yeah, and but then, you know, the Jack Benny Program, there was the same cast, you know, the very same people that were on radio, moved to television, same with Red Skelton and many of the shows, but other times, completely different cast.   Michael Hingson ** 08:22 I was watching this morning when I woke up, me too. Let's see, was it me too? Yeah, was me TV? They're great and and they had Jack Benny on at 430 in the morning. I just happened to wake up and I turned it on. There's Benny season five, where he took the beavers to county fair. Of course, the Beavers are fun. And I've actually, I've actually had the opportunity to meet Beverly Washburn, which was, oh, sure,   Carl Amari ** 08:52 sure. Oh man, Jack Benny, probably the high water mark of comedy. You know, when you talk about, you know, a guy that was on, he started in vaudeville, you know, and then he had his own radio show, his own TV show was in movies, and probably the most successful. And when you think about Seinfeld, right, when you think about the series, the television series Seinfeld, there's so many correlations between Seinfeld and the Jack Benny Program, you know Seinfeld. It was, was a comedian, you know Jerry Seinfeld, playing himself. He had this cast of Looney characters all around him. Same thing with the Jack Benny show. It was Jack Benny with a cast of Looney characters. And so it's probably was an homage, you know, to to Jack Benny. And   Michael Hingson ** 09:39 I, I'm, think you're right. I think in a lot of ways, that probably absolutely was the case. And you know, there are so many radio shows that that, in one way or another, have have influenced TV. And I think people don't necessarily recognize that, but it's true, how much, yeah, radio really set the stage for so many things. Yeah, I think the later suspenses, in a sense, were a lot better than some of the earlier ones, because they really were more poignant. Some were more science fiction, but they really were more suspenseful than than some of the early ones, but they were all fun.   Carl Amari ** 10:13 Oh gosh, suspense that's now you're talking about, I think the best series of all time, you know, because it was about almost 1000 episodes. It lasted from 42 to, I believe, 62 or 63 and and it had, for a time, there was a lot of true stories on suspense when Elliot Lewis took over. But yeah, you're right. It had the best actors, the best writers, the best production values. So suspense to this day. You know, I think is, of all the shows was, was one of the best, if not the best.   Michael Hingson ** 10:45 Oh, I agree. I can't argue with that at all. And did so many things. And then for at least a summer, they had hour long suspenses, but mostly it was a half hour or Yes, later was 25 minutes plus a newscast, right,   Carl Amari ** 10:59 right, right? It didn't seem to work in the hour long format. They only did a handful of those, and they went back right back to the half hour once a week, you know. But, yeah, no suspense, one of my favorites for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 11:13 Oh, yeah. Well, and it's hard to argue with that. It's so much fun to do all of these. And you know, on other shows in radio, in a sense, tried to emulate it. I mean, escape did it for seven years, but it still wasn't suspense, right,   Carl Amari ** 11:27 right. Closest thing to suspense was escape, but it was never and I think because you know, as as you know Michael, but maybe some of your listeners don't realize this, these actors, these big actors, Humphrey Bogard and chair, you know, James Stewart and Cary Grant, they were, they were studio, they were under a studio contract. So they weren't like today, where they were freelance. So when, like, let's say, Jimmy Stewart was being paid, I'll just make up a number $5,000 a week to be under contract to make movies when he wasn't making a movie, they wanted to make money on this actor, so they would loan him out to radio. And these actors were on suspense, like on a routine basis, you had movie stars every week appearing on suspense, the biggest movie stars on the planet. So and you would think, well, how could they afford these movie stars? Well, because the studios wanted to make money when their actors weren't working, right?   Michael Hingson ** 12:23 And and did, and people really appreciate it. I mean, Jess Stewart, yeah, even some of the actors from radio, like fiber began, Molly, yeah, on a suspense. And they were, that was a great that was a great show. But, oh yeah,   Carl Amari ** 12:38 back, I think it was back, right? Yeah, yeah, which   Michael Hingson ** 12:41 was really cool. Well, you license a lot of shows from, from people tell me more about that. That must be interesting and fascinating to try to negotiate and actually work out. Well,   Carl Amari ** 12:52 early on, when I was in college, you know, as a communications major, and I learned very early on that these show, a lot of these shows are, copyrighted so and because I was actually sent a cease and desist letter on a college station just playing a show. And so that was, and it was from Mel blanks company, man of 1000 voices. And he his son, Noel, helped me learn, you know, taught me that, hey, you know, these shows are were created by, you know, the the estates, you know, the that were still around Jack Benny and, you know, CBS owns a ton of stuff and different, you know, entities that own these shows and and he helped, and he introduced me to a lot of people, including Jerry Lewis and Milton Burrell and and so I spent My early career in my 20s, flying back and forth to LA and New York and licensing these shows from like Irving Brecher, who created the life of Riley and the Jack Benny estate. And, you know, golden books at the time, owned the Lone Ranger and so licensing that and Warner Brothers, you know, DC for Batman and so, and Superman, I mean, which had Batman on it, but Superman, I licensed those. And, you know, MCA universal for dragnet and the six shooter and so on and on and on and and I spent, as I say, my early career licensing. I now have over 100,000 shows under license, and mostly from Master transcriptions, because I only like to collect from the master source, because we put them out through a club, the classic Radio Club, and I air them on my I have a national radio show called Hollywood 360 we air them every week, five shows every week on the network. There's over 100 stations, including Armed Forces Radio and and so I want the quality to be impeccable. I don't want dubs of dubs or, you know, cracks and pops. And I really want to give people what it sounded like back then when they aired   Michael Hingson ** 14:54 and well. And you you can sort of do that, but the sound is probably even better today. With the audio equipment that people have access to, yeah, the sound is even better than it was. But I hear what you're saying, and it's cool to listen to those, and they're not stereo. Oh, that would be interesting to to try to reprocess and make that happen, but the audio is incredible. Yeah,   Carl Amari ** 15:16 yeah, that's kind of what our, you know, our trademark is, Michael is, you know, if you're listening to Hollywood 360 which, as I say, is on a lot of stations across the country, when you listen to that show, and in every hour, we play a we play a show, you know you're going to get something that sounds just, is like we're talking right now. You know that's that's important to me. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 15:37 well, and I can appreciate that, and it makes perfect sense that it is because we should really preserve the the programs, and we should do what we can to make them sound as good as we can, and we should really get that high quality. And the high quality is there, yes, just not always what people find, and people are willing to, well, accept less than what they should, yeah,   Carl Amari ** 16:01 well, I, you know, I grew up collecting from where I wherever I could. But then, when I started licensing them, I would get the masters from the, you know, whoever owned them. And then I also have about a half a dozen collectors that only collect on 16 inch disc, which is kind of great. And so if I have, let's say, you know, suspense and and I'll, you know, let's say, you know, because we license that from CBS. But if CBS doesn't have a certain show, but a collector on disc has it, I'll get that from the collector and still pay the royalty the CBS because they own it. But I'll get that, that disc from a collector. And, you know, we, and it's a cost of doing business, but we'll get it transferred and and put it out to the public that way.   Michael Hingson ** 16:46 Typically, what are the discs made of? So   Carl Amari ** 16:49 they're, they're like, uh, they're like a shellac. I mean, they're, they're like, a glass. Some of them are actually glass,   Michael Hingson ** 16:55 yeah, you know, some of the Jack Benny shows were glass, yeah,   Carl Amari ** 16:59 and acetate and things like that. And so I there's one gentleman that's in in Redding, California, Doug Hopkinson, who is just an expert on this, and he does most of the transfers. We recently licensed 41 different series from Frederick zivs estate. And you know, we're talking the entire collection of Boston Blackie bold venture with Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall, Philo Vance, with Jackson Beck, Mr. District Attorney, and I was a communist for the FBI. And Doug is actually doing they're all on they're all zivs Personal discs. Frederick Ziv, he had them. There's 10,000 more than 10,000 discs in a controlled warehouse in Cincinnati, and we are slowly but surely working our way through 10,000 shows. And Doug is doing all those transfers. So he's a busy guy. Does he go there to do it? No, we have him sent. So you do cardboard boxes. Yeah, yeah. To California. And then Doug has two, you know, it's special equipment that you have to use. I mean, it's very, very it's not just a turntable, and it's a special equipment. And then, you know, we get the raw file, you know, we get the, he uses the special needles based on that album, you know, or that disc he has, you know, a whole plethora of needles, and then he tests it, whichever gets the best sound out of there. So, yeah, he's really, he's tops at this. And so we're doing those Troy, we just transferred all the, I was a communist for the FBI with Dana Andrews, yeah, and all the Boston blackies, which is one of my favorites   Michael Hingson ** 18:40 and bold venture. And, yeah, I have those, good man, so I know that it's interesting. You mentioned the needles. So for people who don't know, in order to get a program on one disc, the transcriptions were literally 16 inches. I mean, we're all used to LPS or 12 inch disc, but the radio transcriptions were 16 inch discs, right?   Carl Amari ** 19:05 And that held 15 minutes. And now you needed two discs, yeah? So generally, you needed two discs to give you one show, unless it was one on one side and one on the other side. But a lot of times it was, it was, it was two discs for one show, yeah, and then, and then, on the opposite side, you'd have another show. One   Michael Hingson ** 19:24 of the things that I got the opportunity to do was to collect my dad knew somebody when he worked at Edwards Air Force Base that had a number of 16 inch transcriptions, and I had a turntable. Wasn't great, but it served the purpose for a college kid. And one of the things I discovered was that there were a few recordings that, rather than putting the needle on the outside and the record spins and plays in, you actually start from the inside and go out.   Carl Amari ** 19:56 Yes, I've seen that, yeah, and I'm told we're that way. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 20:00 I'm told that they did that because the the audio quality was actually better. Doing it that way, really? Yeah, I didn't know that. I didn't know, but that's what I was told, was that the audio quality was even better. Wow,   Carl Amari ** 20:11 yeah. I mean, it's a skill, you know, because with we really have one shot to get these 10, you know, these, these discs and and and we were getting them from, from literally, Frederick zivs Personal. They were, I told, like the first one off the duplication line. When he would, he would bicycle the discs all around the country. We're not using discs that were ever touched by radio stations. In fact, a lot of them, we have to drill out the holes in the middle because they've closed up a little bit. So these have never been played. They're unplayed. His master discs that are unplayed and and if you have the bold venture, you know what we were able to pull off those masters, it's like high fidelity. Mon Oro,   Michael Hingson ** 20:56 yeah. They're as good as it can get. And they do, they sound really great. Well, even the Boston blackies are good. Yeah,   Carl Amari ** 21:02 oh yeah, yeah. I'm excited about that, because that, that's one of my favorite shows Boston.   Michael Hingson ** 21:07 I like Boston Blackie and yeah, and I like, I was a communist for the FBI, and I haven't gotten those yet, but I'm waiting to get Dana Andrews that whole   Carl Amari ** 21:15 they just shipped. So there you should be getting them, Michael. So thank you for that. They'll   Michael Hingson ** 21:20 be they'll be coming, yes, which is pretty cool, but it is so fun to have the opportunity to listen to all these and I really urge people, the easy way is you can go to places like yesterday usa.net, online and listen to a lot of radio programs, but you can go to Carl's website, or when he can tell us how to do it, and you can actually purchase the opportunity to get copies of some of these shows, and they're absolutely fun and worth doing.   Carl Amari ** 21:54 Yeah, thank you, Michael. We are. We have, you know, our radio show has a website. You can learn about our radio show that's that's easy. It's Hollywood. And then 360 so Hollywood, 360 radio.com, that's like my and you can reach me, but there's ways to contact me through there. And then we, I think I mentioned we offer these through a club, which is pretty cool, because what I do every month is I'll comb the library of we have over 100,000 shows, and I'll take, I'll pick 10 shows every month and put them either on five CDs with a booklet, historical booklet, and it's in a nice case. And you get about every 30 days, CD members get a new 10 C 10 show five CD set in the mail, or you can get those same shows via digital download. So if you don't want the CDs, you just want a link sent to you there, they're done that way too. And that's classic radio club.com and all of the information is there at Classic radio club.com and as I say that that we put out only the best quality there, like, the best quality you could possibly get, which,   Michael Hingson ** 23:04 which is so cool, because I have heard some of those programs as you say that they're dubbed or people, for some reason, have the wrong speed. They're not great quality, right? So frustrating. Yeah, there's no need for any of that. And some people, of course, cut out the commercials, not being visionary enough to understand the value of leaving the commercials in, right? And again, they didn't do a very good job of cutting them out.   Carl Amari ** 23:31 No, we leave everything in. Even, you know, it's so interesting to hear cigarette commercials, or, you know, all you know, vitamin commercials, like, you know, you know, ironized yeast presents, lights out. You know, it's fun. It's fun to hear, you know, these commercials. And sometimes, like on the dragnets, when they're talking about Chesterfield, they're like, oh, doctor recommended, you know, and all this.   Michael Hingson ** 23:55 Well, even better than that, I was just thinking the Fatima cigarettes commercials on dragnet. Yeah, research shows, yeah, I wonder where they got that research,   Carl Amari ** 24:07 yeah. Oh my gosh. They were, they were, it was crazy how they would do that. I mean, they got away with it. They did. They did. They did. And, you know, we, even when we air radio shows, we don't cut the commercials unless it's cigarette commercials, because there's an FCC rule that you can't hear cigarette commercials. But like, you know, when we play Jack Benny and there's and there's, you know, Grape Nuts flakes commercials, we leave it in. We want people to hear the Fun, fun of those commercials and things well,   Michael Hingson ** 24:36 and sometimes, of course, like with great nuts flakes commercials, the commercial is part of the program. Yes, it's integrated. Break away. It's all integrated in which makes it so fun. I didn't know that there was an FCC rule that said you can't air any cigarette commercials even for educational purposes.   Carl Amari ** 24:55 Well, it might be for educational purposes. It may be non commercial, but I know on commercial stage. Stations, I can imagine that. Yeah, yeah. And Hollywood, 360 is commercial, you know, we have sponsors like, you know, we have Prevagen is one of our big sponsors, cats, pride, kitty litter, and, you know, they've been with me forever. And, you know, whatever, the Home Depot, Geico, you know, my pillow, these are some of our sponsors. And, and so we're on commercial stations across the country.   Michael Hingson ** 25:21 Yeah, so it makes sense that that you you do it that way, which, yeah, you know, is understandable. But, boy, some of those commercials are the Chesterfield commercials. Accu Ray on Gunsmoke. Yeah?   Carl Amari ** 25:37 A gimmick to get you to buy their cigarettes.   Michael Hingson ** 25:39 Yeah, I bet there was no accuray machine, but, oh, probably not, probably not. It is so funny. Well, you did the Twilight Zone radio programs. What got you started on doing that?   Carl Amari ** 25:53 Well, you know, growing up, I think I mentioned earlier, it was one of my favorite shows, yeah, always mine too, you know. And just watching that I was so blown away by twilight zone as a kid. So then when I got into the licensing of these classic radio shows, and I I was, I guess I was just always really envious of these producers that got to do these radio shows. And I always thought, man, I was. I was born in the wrong decades. You know, I was, I wish I was around back in the 40s and was able to produce suspense or escape or one of these shows. And I thought the show that would work the best, you know, that was on television, that that would work great in the theater of the mind realm, would be twilight zone, because growing up watching, you know, the makeup wasn't that great and the costumes weren't that great. You could see the zippers on the Martians sometimes. And I thought, you know, the writing was so amazing, right? And the stories were so vivid, and it worked for your theater of the mind that you didn't really need the visual with Twilight Zone, especially if you, you know, you have to write them in a way for radio. There's a special technique for writing for radio, obviously. So I, I reached out to to CBS and the rod Sterling estate, and they thought it was cool. And they said, you know, what do one, we'll let, we'll let, we'll take a listen to one, you know. And they sent me the television script for monsters are due on Maple Street. That was the one they sent me. And at the time, I was trying to get Robert Wagner to be the host. I always liked to take the thief and and, and he thought it was interesting, but he passed on it ultimately. And, and then at the same time, I was working with Stacy Keach, senior, Stacy keach's Dad, who had created Tales from the tales of the Texas range Rangers, right? And, and, and so I was at, actually at Jane Seymour's house, because Jane Seymour was married at that time to Stacy's brother, James Keach, and I got invited to a party there. And I got to meet Stacy Keach and and I heard his voice up close, you know, standing next to him, and I was like, this is the guy I gotta get to be the host. And so I started telling him about what I was doing, and he's like, I'd love to be the host of that. And so that was the beginning of a lifelong friendship with Stacy, and he was just incredible on it. And we did one, we did a pilot, monsters are doing Maple Street. And they loved it. And said, go ahead. And that was it. And it was like, in 2002   Michael Hingson ** 28:29 the first one I heard was, if I remember the title, right, a different kind of stopwatch, okay, the one with Blue Diamond Phillips, Blue Diamond Phillips, that was the first one. I think you. You offered that as a, as a sample. Yeah, yes, when I got that was pretty cool. But you   Carl Amari ** 28:43 wouldn't believe Michael, how many whenever I would reach out to an actor like Jason Alexander, I mean, Jay, I remember Jason, when I reached out to him and I said, Hey, I'd like to you to do these. And he was like, Oh, I'd love it. And then he did it, and then he'd call me and say, You got any more of those? Love doing it, you know, because they never get to do this. They, you know, these actors don't get to do radio. And so people like, you know, Lou Diamond Phillips and Luke Perry God rest his soul, and and Michael York and Malcolm McDowell and, you know, Don Johnson and Lou and Luke Luke Gossett Jr, so many of these people that I reached out to, Jane Seymour, another one, they were just they were they couldn't say yes fast enough. They just loved doing radio drama. It was so easy to book these stars. I've   Michael Hingson ** 29:38 been talking with Walden Hughes, who, you know, is the guy who now runs yesterday USA, we've been talking about and we've been doing recreations of a number of shows. The problem is that the people who are involved, oftentimes have never really gone back and listened to the shows they're recreating and their voice. And what they do are so different than the kinds of things that you actually would hear on the shows, they just don't do it very well. And we've actually thought about the idea of trying to get a grant to try to teach people how to be radio actors and really learn to do the kinds of things that would make the shows a lot more meaningful. We'll see what happens. We're really working on it. We're going to be doing some recreations in Washington for enthusiasm. Puget Sound, yes, and one of my favorite radio shows has always been Richard diamond private detective. I thought such a wise guy, and so I am actually going to be Richard diamond in Nice,   Carl Amari ** 30:46 oh my gosh, yeah, wow. Well, you know, there's a real, there's a real special magic to doing these radio shows, as I know, you know, you understand, you know, there's, there's, and that was that really boils down to having great actors and also great writing like so CBS would send us. He would, they would send me the our the Rod Serling scripts, you know, we really, we'd get them, but they, of course, would not work on radio because it was written for a visual medium. So I had, I had a two time sci fi fantasy winning writer Dennis echeson, who is no longer with us, unfortunately, but he, he, he was an expert on Twilight Zone and also how to write for radio. And it's all about that it's taking that he would take the TV scripts and and redo them so that they would work without the visual, and that you start with that. And then you can, you know, then you can create, when you have a grin, you have a great group of actors. And I hired only the best Chicago supporting cast here, you know, the the Goodman theater and, and, you know actors and, and, you know people like that. And then, of course, the star, we'd fly the star in, yeah, and they, they knock out two shows. I bring in lunch in the middle of the day, we'd knock out two shows. And it was a wonderful experience doing like, I don't know, I think I did, oh gosh, close to 200 episodes.   Michael Hingson ** 32:13 Now, were some of the episodes, shows that never were on the the TV series, or they, yeah, when   Carl Amari ** 32:19 we got through the original 156 shows, because that's how many were in the original Rod Serling run. So we did them all. We actually one of them I never released because I wasn't happy with it. I think it was called come wander with me. So that one I never released, we did it. I wasn't happy with it, because it was a musical one, you know, I think it had Bob Crosby on it, or somebody like that, and on the TV show, and so it was a lot of singing, and I just wasn't happy with it. But after that, there was no no more. I could have gone into the later series, but I just, I said to them, can I hire writers to write new ones, you know? And they said, Sure, but we have to approve it and all that. And so a lot of them got approved, and a lot of them didn't. And then we, we, I think we produced maybe close to 4030, or 40 originals,   Michael Hingson ** 33:13 right? Yeah, did you ever meet Rod Serling? No, never   Carl Amari ** 33:18 did. He was gone before I got into this. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 33:22 he came to UC Irvine to lecture once when I was still on campus. I was actually Program Director of the radio station, and so several of us from kuci got to interview him. And one of our, the people who was involved with that, actually had one of the ape costumes from Planet of the Apes. So he came dressed up as one of the Apes. Was Wow, but great. But the thing about rod Sterling his voice is it's hot. How do I describe this? No matter what his voice sounded like on television, it wasn't nearly as deep as his natural voice, and microphones couldn't get the same level with his real voice, and so we interviewed him. His voice was very deep, and then we did then we went out and listened to the lecture at the gym, and he sounded like Rod Serling, but he didn't sound like Rod Serling when we were talking with him, yeah, and when we could hear him with our ears, when it came out on on the show that we did the interview, it again, sounded like Rod Serling, but just the microphone. Couldn't really get the full breath of his voice, which was sure,   Carl Amari ** 34:35 yeah. I mean, what a talent, right? I mean, and then he had that show, Zero Hour, zero hour, right? Yeah, radio. And that was an interesting series, too. He tried to bring back the and he didn't. It was a, I think it was a fine job. You know, good job. Yeah. There were others, you know, CBS Radio, mystery theater, of course, diamond Brown. And there were some other ones. But I. I'm real proud, really, really proud of The Twilight Zone. I think they're, they're, they're, I mean, they're not nothing is as good as the way they did these the shows in the golden age. I mean, I don't think anyone can get to that point, but they're, I think they're pretty close, and I'm very proud of them.   Michael Hingson ** 35:15 Oh, yeah. And, but it still is with the Twilight Zone. It's really hard to compete with that, my favorite Twilight Zone, and for me, it was tough because I never knew the titles of the shows, because they would show you the title, but I could never, never really hear them. But when I started collecting and got access to, like your your radio Twilight zones and so on. I started to learn titles, and so my favorite has always been valley of the shadow. Oh, great one. Yeah. I just always thought that was the best of the it was an hour long instead of a half hour. But I Yeah, on TV. But I always thought that was just so innovative. I   Carl Amari ** 35:57 think Ernie Hudson did that one for me. I'm trying to think, but yeah, there was, we had, we had so many incredible actors on it. I mean, it was, it was a real fun, you know, four or five years that I was doing those, lot of fun doing them. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 36:12 you had several with Stan Freeberg. And, of course, yes, who don't know Stan Freeberg was definitely very much involved in radio, especially in the 50s, late 40s, with, that's rich, but mostly in the 50s, a satirist and incredible humorist and entertainer. But he did several Twilight zones.   Carl Amari ** 36:31 He did, you know, yeah, I was working with him on, you know, I created the show when radio was, which is still out there today, and and when radio was I ever initially had art Fleming as the host, you know, the original host of original Jeopardy guy, yeah. And then when art passed away, I hired Stan Freeberg, and Stan was the host of that show for many years. And then, then, when I started doing Twilight Zone, I said, Hey, would you like to do some of these? And he's like, Yeah, I'd like to do them all, yeah. Let me have all the scripts. But the one that he did that I think, is just off the charts amazing, is called Four o'clock ever, yeah, one, yeah, yeah. That is just the most interesting show, The Twilight Zone episode that we did where he plays this kind of a loony, a loony guy, who is that? What you describe him as, narking on everybody doesn't like anything, like anybody or anything, no, and it's so and he calls people and harasses them and oh my gosh, and he says, I'm gonna shrink everybody to four inches tall at four o'clock. Four o'clock, right? Yeah, and it's just, oh my gosh, what a what a great episode. It's one of my favorites.   Michael Hingson ** 37:48 And of course, if you think about it, listening people out there who got shrunk at four o'clock,   Carl Amari ** 37:56 well, let's not give it away, but yes, I think you can figure it out.   Michael Hingson ** 37:59 I think it's pretty,   Carl Amari ** 37:59 easy to figure out, but, and I actually played, I actually played a role in that episode. I played the bird. I did all the bird sounds on that episode. And so I feel like I had a co starring role, because, yeah, he had a parrot. You know, that was every time you would say something. And I played that, that part on there. But   Michael Hingson ** 38:22 yeah, all the Twilight zones were, were so clever, yeah, and, and I love listening to them. I I have a an mp three player that I carry on airplanes, and I have audio copies of all the Twilight zones. So every so often as I'm flying somewhere or two on and listen there, Michael,   Carl Amari ** 38:43 I'm so glad to hear that. Oh, man, you make me so happy to hear that. So   Michael Hingson ** 38:47 fun. And you know, another one of my favorites was, will the real Martian please stand up now? Yeah, that was cute, and I won't give it. Oh,   Carl Amari ** 38:57 great. So great. Yeah, I sent trying to think who the actor was in that one, but it's been a while, but that's a great one, yeah. And I remember, you know, watching it on TV and and thinking, Oh, this would work on radio. So great, you know, so love doing them. Yeah, I'd love to do more. I might consider coming back and doing more. I mean, originals, you know, might be a lot of fun to do those again, I was   Michael Hingson ** 39:21 going to ask you if you've got any plans for doing anything future. You know, in the future might be interesting, and there's a lot of leeway, of course, to take it in different directions. Do x minus one, but you don't have to do the same stories, even, although, yeah, a lot of good stories in in the original x minus ones on for those who don't know x minus one is a science fiction series. It was on from what 1955 through 1957 I   Carl Amari ** 39:49 believe, yeah, it was a great series. Sci Fi really lends itself really, very well to radio drama. You know, in theater of the mind, it's great because you can, you can go in. Anywhere you land on any planet. And you know, it's very easy to do on radio, where it's tough to do on TV. You know, you have to spend a lot of money to do that. So, I mean, Stan Freeburg proved that with his with his giant ice cream Sunday.   Michael Hingson ** 40:15 All right, go with the marasino Cherry. For those who don't know, is that he said, we're going to empty Lake Michigan now. We're going to fill it up with whipped cream. We're going to drop a maraschino cherry into it and other things. He said, You can't do that on TV.   Carl Amari ** 40:31 Try doing that on television. Yeah, he was something. He was so much fun to wear. Of all the people that I've met over the years, you know so many of these radio stars, and I've interviewed so many hundreds of them, really, over the years, I'd have to say I have a special place in my heart for Stan the most, because I got to work with him for so many years, and we used to just go to lunch together all the time, and and he had a, he had a, he had a, what was it again? Now? Oh, oh, I'm trying to think of the car that he drove, a jaguar. It was a jaguar, and it was a and we used to drive around in his, his big Jaguar all around LA, and just have so much fun together. And I just loved working with Stan. He was such a great man. I   Michael Hingson ** 41:17 never got to meet what would have loved to Yeah, Jack Benny and Jimmy Durante, oh my gosh, yeah. And, of course, Stan Freeberg, but yeah, you know, I wasn't in that circle, so I didn't write that. But what, what wonderful people they were. And, yeah,   Carl Amari ** 41:32 George Burns, George Burns used to, yeah, George used to take me to the Hillcrest Country Club, and we would just have the best time. He just thought it was the most interesting thing that a young guy in his 20s was so passionate about, you know, those days. And he we would just talk for hours. And I used to go to his office in Hollywood and in his and we would just sit and talk. And I have pictures of of those, those times I have them in my office, you know, he and I together. He was like a mentor to me. He and Stan were both mentors.   Michael Hingson ** 42:05 Did you get recordings of many of those conversations? Yes, I do.   Carl Amari ** 42:08 I do have quite a few with with George and Stan. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 42:12 it was great, you know, yes, nothing like talking to God, that's   Carl Amari ** 42:16 right. And he had a coffee cup in his office. It's it was a white coffee cup, and it had God on it, and black to drink out of that coffee cup. And he had, I was to say, when I first, my first time, I went to his office in Hollywood, you know, he was a real long office, narrow with is all paneling, and there was all these beautiful pictures, like photos of all the people he and Gracie had worked with. And then there was this beautiful painting of Gracie above him, you know, where he was sitting at his desk. And I remember walking in. I said, Hi, George, because I had talked to him on the phone a lot of times. And he said, Ah, come on in, you know. And I said, Oh, man, George, these photos are amazing on the walls, looking as I was walking towards his desk. And he says, You like those pictures? I said, Yeah. He goes, everyone in those pictures is dead except for me. I knew him the last about four years of his life. From that, from he was 96 to 100 I knew George, and we'd, we'd go   Michael Hingson ** 43:16 to the Hillcrest together. It was fun. Did you meet or get to know Bob Hope, never   Carl Amari ** 43:21 met Bob Hope No, because he lived, what, two, yeah. He lived 100 Yeah. Never met Bob Hope No.   Michael Hingson ** 43:27 And Irving Berlin got to 100 Yeah, yeah. But so   Carl Amari ** 43:30 many, I mean, Jerry Lewis, and so many others that that, I mean, Jerry was so great. I mean, you know, probably one of the most talented people to ever live, you know, and he could even sing, and he could, he could do it all. I mean, he was something. I mean, I was in such awe of that man. And we, he was very kind to me, licensed me to Martin Lewis and all that. So, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 43:52 we saw one of my favorite musicals. I originally saw it as a movie out here on K Shea was the million dollar movie. It was Damn Yankees,   Carl Amari ** 44:03 damn Yeah, he was on Broadway. Did that on Broadway, and he did it on Broadway,   Michael Hingson ** 44:07 and we read about it. And his father, he had how his father said, You'll really know you've arrived when you get to do something on Broadway. And that was the only thing he ever got to do on Broadway. And we did get to go see it. We saw, Oh, wow, yeah,   Carl Amari ** 44:20 Broadway, amazing, yeah, amazing, yeah, yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 44:24 I'm so sad that there was so much acrimony for so many years between him and Dean Martin, yeah, which was really probably brought on more by all the people they worked with that, yes, that cost a whole lot more than them. But yeah, near the end they, they did deal with it a little Yeah?   Carl Amari ** 44:42 They, they got back together a little bit. Yeah, yeah. He was an interesting guy, Boy, I'll tell you. You know, just talking to him, I learned so much, learned so much over the years.   Michael Hingson ** 44:53 Yeah, yeah. It's so much fun to to be able to do that. Well, I really do hope you do get. To do another show, to do something else. And you're right, there's nothing like science fiction in terms of what you can do, and maybe even doing a series, yeah, yeah, as opposed to individual shows. One of my favorite science fiction books by Robert Heinlein is called the Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and I would love to see somebody dramatize that. I think it would take, probably, to do it right? It's going to take about 15 hours to do but, oh, wow. What a great what a great thing. If you've never read it, read the book, it's really, oh, I   Carl Amari ** 45:30 haven't, so I'm not familiar with it, so I'll give it a read. The Moon is a Harsh, missus,   Michael Hingson ** 45:34 yeah, yeah. Pretty clever. A computer helps organize a revolution on the moon, which was being colonized and run from the lunar authority on earth. Here's what gives it away in 2075 subtract 300 years. Yeah, it's all about the same thing, like the revolution here, but a computer, Mycroft wakes up and helps organize the revolution. It's really pretty clever. Oh, wow,   Carl Amari ** 46:04 that would be fun to do in a series. Yeah, it   Michael Hingson ** 46:08 would be worth doing. But, but, yeah, I've always enjoyed the book. Robert Donnelly read it as a talking book for blind people. Oh, okay, okay, yeah. So I actually have it. I'll have it, I'll have to find it. I could actually send you the recording. You could listen to it. Oh, please do. I'd love that. We won't tell the Library of Congress, so we will know much trouble.   Carl Amari ** 46:33 But you know, then I kind of, you know, my other passion is the Bible. Yeah, I was gonna get to that. Tell me, yeah. I was just gonna, you know, and so a lot of these same actors that did, you know, Twilight zones and things for for me, I just, I met, like Jason Alexander and so many of these people, Lou Gossett Jr, when I decided to do the to dramatize the entire Bible on audio. A lot of these same actors and many, many, many more, were really, were really great to be in that too. It was a lot of fun.   Michael Hingson ** 47:06 Yeah, well, very recognizable voices, to a large degree, like Michael York,   Carl Amari ** 47:12 yes, yes, he was the narrator. So he did the most. He worked the longest. What a great man. Just an amazing actor. He was the narrator. And then you know Jim Caviezel, who played Jesus in the Passion of the Christ, played Jesus in it, right? And then you know Richard Dreyfus was Moses John Voigt was Abraham. Max von Saito played Noah John Rees Davies was in it. I mean, we had, we had, I mean, Marissa Tomei was Mary Magdalene. I had many, many Academy Award winners in it, and so many people, you know, was in it. That was a four year deal that took me four years to do the full Bible. Yeah, 98 hours on audio, fully scored the whole thing.   Michael Hingson ** 48:01 Well, you had a great publisher put it out. Thomas Nelson, Yes, yep. They also did my first book, Thunder dog. So can't complain about that too much. No,   Carl Amari ** 48:10 they know how to market. It Was it, was it, I think, I think today it's still the number one selling dramatized Audio Bible in the world. I believe, you know, so it's, it's been a big success for Thomas Nelson, yeah, that was, that was, that was quite, I mean, you should have seen what my passport looked like when I did that. I mean, it was stamped for every country all over that I was going and, you know, and having to produce, because a lot of the actors, like, you know, John Reese Davies. He lives in, he lives in the Isle of Man, and, you know, and then, you know, Max von Saito was nice France, and we scored it in Bulgaria. And, I mean, you know, it was just crazy and traveling all over the world to make that audio. But you've done some other Bibles in addition to that. I have, yeah, yeah, I have. I've done, think I did. Now it's like five different ones, because I like doing different translations, you know, because it's different. I mean, even though it's the same story, the translations people people have translations that they love, you know, whether it's the RSV or it's the New Living Translation or the Nkj or, you know, and so I, I've enjoyed doing them in different translations. That's   Michael Hingson ** 49:25 pretty cool. Do you have any, any additional, additional ones coming out?   Carl Amari ** 49:29 No, no, I've done, I've done done, like, five and, and so I'm more doing, you know, more concentrating now on my radio show, Hollywood, 360, and, and some movie production stuff that I've been working on. And then I'm one of the owners of a podcast company. So we're, we're always putting out, you know, different podcasts and things. And so my plate is very full, although I would love, I think I would love to do some. Thing, like, what you're saying, like, either more Twilight zones, or maybe something like that. It might be, you know, I'd love to do something in the theater or the mind, you know, arena again, too, because I love doing that. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 50:11 I think it'd be a lot of fun to do. Tell me about the podcast,   Carl Amari ** 50:15 yeah. So, um, so we have a podcast company called Gulfstream studios, and we have our main, our main podcast is a is, is. So we're, we, we do a show called, well, there's, there's several podcasts that we're doing, but, but it's the spout is the is the one that's a music oriented we have all the biggest music artists on there. It's really great. So spout is the name of that podcast. And then we're working on, we're working on a Bible podcast. We're going to come out with some a Bible podcast pretty soon. I'm real excited about that more soon. Hopefully you'll have me back when we launch that. Well, yeah, and then, you know, we have, we're always looking for any so I'm ready to, I'm ready to take your podcast onto our platform. Whatever you say. Michael, oh, we'll have to,   Michael Hingson ** 51:10 we'll have to look at that and work it out. But in the meanwhile, I said earlier, I'd love to come on any of the podcasts that you want. And if, yeah, have you read thunder dog,   Carl Amari ** 51:19 no, I didn't know. I didn't have not read it. No. So thunderdog   Michael Hingson ** 51:23 was my story of being in the World Trade Center and getting out and so on. But you should read it, because there are also some, some really poignant parts, like, just to briefly tell that part of the story, I'll send you a video where of a speech I've given, but one of the parts of it is that, as I was running away from tower two, as it was collapsing, because we were at Vesey Street and Broadway, so we were like 100 yards away from tower two when it came down, I turned and ran back the way I came. And as I started to run, I started, I said to myself, and I stayed focused pretty much. But I said to myself at that point, God, I can't believe that you got us out of a building just to have it fall on us. Right? I heard a voice as clearly as we are hearing each other now in my head that said, don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on running with Roselle and the rest will take care of itself. Wow. And I had this absolute sense of certainty that if we just continue to work together, we would be fine. We did, and we were but I am very much a a person who believes in the whole concept of God. And for those who who may disagree with me, you're welcome to do that. You'll you'll just have to take that up with God or whatever at some point. But I would love to really explore anytime you you need a guest to come on and be a part of it, and who knows, maybe I'll be good enough to act in a radio show you do.   Carl Amari ** 52:49 I'm sure you would be, sure you would be Michael, but it would be, yeah, but it would   Michael Hingson ** 52:54 be fun to do. But I really enjoy doing all this stuff, and radio, of course, has become such a part of my life for so long, it has helped me become a better speaker. Was I travel and speak all over the world?   Carl Amari ** 53:10 Yeah, wow. Well, I'm a big fan of yours, and, and, but I'd love to read the book, so I'll order it. Can I get it off of Amazon or something like that? You can get   Michael Hingson ** 53:19 it off of Amazon. You can get it from Audible, okay, or wherever. And then I wrote, then we wrote two others. One's called running with Roselle, which was really intended more for kids talking about me growing up, and Roselle my guide dog at the World Trade Center growing up. But more adults buy it than kids. And then last year, we published live like a guide dog. True Stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and moving forward in faith, and that one is really about people need to and can learn how to control fear and not let fear overwhelm or, as I put it, blind them. And you can actually learn to use fear as a very powerful tool to help you function, especially in emergencies and unexpected situations. And so live like a guide dog uses lessons I've learned from all of my guide dogs and my wife's service dogs, Fantasia that have taught me so much about learning to control fear. And I realized at the beginning of the pandemic, I've talked about being calm and focused getting out, but I've never taught anyone else how to do it, so live like a guide dog is my solution for that, which is kind of that, that,   Carl Amari ** 54:26 that I'm sure helps a lot of people, you know, that's because fear is, is, it's, it's debilitating, you know? So, yeah, well, that's, but it doesn't need doesn't need to be, that's right, that doesn't need to be, yeah, it's one of the reasons why I wanted to do the Bible stuff, because I learned at a very early age that these theater, these radio shows you under, you listen and you actually interpret them and understand them deeper with the theater of the mind than watching them on television or reading them like, like. I think even reading a book as great as that is, if you heard it dramatized on radio, it's even more powerful. I and so I knew that if I took the Bible, which is the greatest book of all time, and it was dramatized in a way, in a kind of a movie quality way, with sound effects and music and wonderful actors that I thought people would get a deeper meaning of the word. And I think we it. We were successful with that, because so many people have written about it on Amazon and things and saying like I, you know, when I heard the Word of Promise, and when I heard this audio, I had to go and get my Bible and see, does it really say that? You know? So here's people that had read the Bible many, many times, and then they heard the dramatization of it, and were like, wow, I didn't even realize that, you know, that was that happened in the Bible. So it's, it's, it's pretty cool, you know, to read those you know how it's helped people, and it's helped save souls, and it's just been a great you know, it's been a very rewarding experience. Have you   Michael Hingson ** 56:09 ever taken it and divided it up and put it on the radio? Well, that's   Carl Amari ** 56:12 one of the not in the radio, but we're going to do some podcast with, we're going to, we're going to be doing something really, really unique with, with one of my later ones that I did not the Word of Promise, but a different one. And, and it's going to, it's going to be really, really special. I can't wait to talk about it on your show. Looking   Michael Hingson ** 56:30 forward to it, yeah, well, we have had a lot of fun doing this, and I'm going to have to sneak away. So I guess we'll have to stop, darn but we do have to continue this. And, and I'd love to find ways to work together on projects and be a part of your world and love you to be more a part of mine. I'm really glad that we finally had a chance to get together and do all this. It's been a lot of fun. Me   Carl Amari ** 56:53 too, Michael, me too. It's really, I said it was an honor, and it really was an honor. And thank you so much. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 56:59 for all of you listening, we hope you've enjoyed this episode of unstoppable mindset. Love to hear your thoughts. Feel free to email me at Michael H I M, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I B, e.com, or go to our web page where we host the where we have the podcast, w, w, w, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, Michael hingson is m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I, N, G, s, O, n.com/podcast, love to get your thoughts wherever you're listening. Please give us a five star rating. We value that very highly. We really appreciate you giving u

Pancho Barnes was larger than life. Born at the turn of the century, she spent the next 75 years defying every societal norm she found stuffy, boring or just plain stupid. She rode horses and then flew planes in the movies. She raced airplanes and briefly held the women's airspeed record. She owned a notorious inn/restaurant/club/hotel/airport in the desert near what would become Edwards Air Force Base. The Happy Bottom Riding Club was populated by Pancho, her personality and famous people from Roy Rogers to Chuck Yeager. We're exploring all the excitement that was the life of Pancho Barnes.Thanks to our guest in this episode:Lauren Kessler- Author, The Happy Bottom Riding Club: The Life and Times of Pancho BarnesFind the transcript at here. AirSpace is created by the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum with generous support from Lockheed Martin.

A former member of the U.S. Air Force experienced an otherworldly encounter at the infamous Edwards Air Force Base in 1981. Stationed at the base, the user witnessed a UFO, which they describe as an identified flying object, during a visit to a World War II hangar. A catastrophic event took place that day, leaving 68 people dead and one survivor—our guest. The story unfolds as they recount the bizarre events that led to their survival, their subsequent debriefings with the Air Force, and a life-altering religious experience that helped them make sense of it all. If you have a real ghost story or supernatural event to report, please write into our show or call 1-855-853-4802! If you like the show, please help keep us on the air and support the show by becoming a Premium Subscriber. Subscribe here: http://www.ghostpodcast.com/?page_id=118 or at or at http://www.patreon.com/realghoststories

Retired NASA Astronaut Lieutenant General Susan Helms reflects on her 211 days in space and life onboard a young International Space Station.In this episode, Susan takes us through her groundbreaking journey as the first active-duty woman officer to become a NASA astronaut. She discusses attending the United States Air Force Academy, flight testing fighter jets, her five space missions, and a record-breaking spacewalk. This one is going to be cool!Key Takeaways:Susan's childhood dream was to attend the United States Air Force Academy. At the time, women were not permitted to learn at the USAFA, but in 1975 during her senior year of high school, President Ford signed a law allowing women to enroll. She applied and was accepted to the Academy, joining 157 other women in the first class of 1976.After graduating from the USAFA in 1980, Susan was assigned to Eglin Air Force Base as an F-16 Weapons Separation Engineer and then became the Lead Engineer for F-15 weapons separation. She then transferred to Edwards Air Force Base to be a Flight Test Engineer.While flight testing CF-18s in Canada, Susan was selected to become a NASA astronaut. She flew on STS-54, 64, 78, 101, and Expedition 2.Susan and crewmate Jim Voss trained and studied languages in Moscow with fellow Cosmonaut Yuri Usachov before their Expedition 2 flight.On a few of her missions, Susan operated the Remote Manipulator System on the Space Shuttle and the International Space Station. This robot arm is used to deploy satellites, capture objects, and assist astronauts during spacewalks.In 2001, Susan Helms and Jim Voss set a world record after spacewalking for 8 hours and 56 minutes. This record was held for 23 years before Chinese astronauts Cai Xuzhe and Song Lingdong broke it in 2024 by 10 minutes.Susan encourages listeners to do what they love and not to follow careers that others are pushing them towards.Resources:Susan Helms' Website Susan Helms' NASA Bio Susan Helms' Air Force Bio One of first female Air Force Academy graduates, Susan Helms, becomes first female military astronaut in space (Denver 7) Expedition 2 (NASA)(00:00) - Intro (01:00) - The First Space Tourist & Astronaut Roles (02:55) - Early Interest in Aviation (03:34) - USAFA Application (04:52) - The USAFA's First Class of Women (05:54) - Attending the USAFA (08:01) - F-15 & F-16 Weapons Testing (09:52) - The Flight Test Engineer Role (11:14) - Flight Testing in Canada (13:00) - Astronaut Selection & First Mission (14:45) - Flying at Mach 25 (15:32) - The Remote Manipulator System (RMS) (18:19) - Astronaut Training in Moscow (21:04) - A Record-Breaking Spacewalk (24:54) - Eating & Drinking During Spacewalks (26:17) - Living in Space (28:35) - Post Astronaut Career (30:22) - Space Exploration's Future (32:02) - Life Advice (32:45) - Outro

John Horrigan received five Boston/New England Emmy Awards (and had twenty nominations) for his role as host and writer of the critically-acclaimed television show entitled "The Folklorist". The program even featured paranormal segments on the Gloucester Sea Serpent, Ape Canyon, The Angels of Mons, Spring-heeled Jack and the Dover Demon. He has had an interest in unexplained mysteries and paranormal events for nearly 40 years. He began broadcasting about the unexplained on local access television and radio beginning in 1991, producing programs dedicated to mysterious phenomena such as Nightime Talk Television (1989), Omnibus Unlimited (1992), Tails (1993), AAHA (1999) and Forteana (2000). He was the last person to interview Betty Hill (alleged first alien abductee) in 1999 with “The Lost Betty Hill Interview”. His research into Unidentified Flying Objects took him to Roswell, New Mexico (three times); Area 51; Kecksburg, Pennsylvania; Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia; Gulf Breeze, Florida; the San Luis Valley (investigating cattle mutilation), the Lockheed Skunk Works; Wright-Patterson Air Force Base; Eglin Air Force Base; Cheyenne Mountain; Edwards Air Force Base; Hill Air Force Base; Dugway Proving Grounds; White Sands Missile Range and Hurlburt Field.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.

John Horrigan received five Boston/New England Emmy Awards (and had twenty nominations) for his role as host and writer of the critically-acclaimed television show entitled "The Folklorist". The program even featured paranormal segments on the Gloucester Sea Serpent, Ape Canyon, The Angels of Mons, Spring-heeled Jack and the Dover Demon. He has had an interest in unexplained mysteries and paranormal events for nearly 40 years. He began broadcasting about the unexplained on local access television and radio beginning in 1991, producing programs dedicated to mysterious phenomena such as Nightime Talk Television (1989), Omnibus Unlimited (1992), Tails (1993), AAHA (1999) and Forteana (2000). He was the last person to interview Betty Hill (alleged first alien abductee) in 1999 with “The Lost Betty Hill Interview”. His research into Unidentified Flying Objects took him to Roswell, New Mexico (three times); Area 51; Kecksburg, Pennsylvania; Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia; Gulf Breeze, Florida; the San Luis Valley (investigating cattle mutilation), the Lockheed Skunk Works; Wright-Patterson Air Force Base; Eglin Air Force Base; Cheyenne Mountain; Edwards Air Force Base; Hill Air Force Base; Dugway Proving Grounds; White Sands Missile Range and Hurlburt Field.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.

John Horrigan received five Boston/New England Emmy Awards (and had twenty nominations) for his role as host and writer of the critically-acclaimed television show entitled "The Folklorist". The program even featured paranormal segments on the Gloucester Sea Serpent, Ape Canyon, The Angels of Mons, Spring-heeled Jack and the Dover Demon. He has had an interest in unexplained mysteries and paranormal events for nearly 40 years. He began broadcasting about the unexplained on local access television and radio beginning in 1991, producing programs dedicated to mysterious phenomena such as Nightime Talk Television (1989), Omnibus Unlimited (1992), Tails (1993), AAHA (1999) and Forteana (2000). He was the last person to interview Betty Hill (alleged first alien abductee) in 1999 with “The Lost Betty Hill Interview”. His research into Unidentified Flying Objects took him to Roswell, New Mexico (three times); Area 51; Kecksburg, Pennsylvania; Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia; Gulf Breeze, Florida; the San Luis Valley (investigating cattle mutilation), the Lockheed Skunk Works; Wright-Patterson Air Force Base; Eglin Air Force Base; Cheyenne Mountain; Edwards Air Force Base; Hill Air Force Base; Dugway Proving Grounds; White Sands Missile Range and Hurlburt Field.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.

Support Breaking Walls at https://www.patreon.com/thewallbreakers It's 6PM on Wednesday, January 11th, 1956. I'm at Colbee's Restaurant on the ground floor of the CBS headquarters at 485 Madison Avenue. I'm about to have a bite to eat with the man you just heard, Mandel Kramer. Yesterday at Edwards Air Force Base in California, U.S. Air Force First Lt. Barty R. Brooks died in the crash of a F-100 Super Sabre. The accident was caught on film. Word from Memphis is that young singer Elvis Presley recorded a new song called “Heartbreak Hotel.” Today's cover of The New York Daily News shows Grace Kelly in Monaco, but the interior pages talk about the rising problems in Vietnam. South Vietnam President Ngô Đình Diệm issued an ordinance giving his government almost unchecked power to deal with any opposition. Meanwhile, the Soviet Union has approved technical specifications for an R-13 submarine-launched missile. And earlier today, The 1956 Chevrolet Corvette was announced. It'll cost three-thousand-one-hundred-twenty dollars. It features a new body, convertible top, optional power steering, optional hardtop, and rollup glass windows. The V6 option has been dropped in favor of either a two-hundred-ten or two-hundred-twenty horsepower V8 Engine. A 3-speed manual transmission is now standard. The main national news is the debate on whether or not President Dwight D. Eisenhower will seek a second term. After suffering a heart attack in September of 1955 Ike is still undeclared, meeting with an array of doctors to gauge whether the rigors of running for reelection will cause undue health issues. The United Press reported on Tuesday the 10th that sixty percent of the more than four hundred doctors polled felt that Dwight would be able to serve. Perhaps some insight into Ike's psyche was gleaned when on Monday, January 9th, he once again took over full White House duties, including naming Bernard M. Shanley Appointments Secretary. Meanwhile, on NBC radio, Keys To The Capital is airing.

John Horrigan received five Boston/New England Emmy Awards (and had twenty nominations) for his role as host and writer of the critically-acclaimed television show entitled "The Folklorist". The program even featured paranormal segments on the Gloucester Sea Serpent, Ape Canyon, The Angels of Mons, Spring-heeled Jack and the Dover Demon. He has had an interest in unexplained mysteries and paranormal events for nearly 40 years. He began broadcasting about the unexplained on local access television and radio beginning in 1991, producing programs dedicated to mysterious phenomena such as Nightime Talk Television (1989), Omnibus Unlimited (1992), Tails (1993), AAHA (1999) and Forteana (2000). He was the last person to interview Betty Hill (alleged first alien abductee) in 1999 with “The Lost Betty Hill Interview”. His research into Unidentified Flying Objects took him to Roswell, New Mexico (three times); Area 51; Kecksburg, Pennsylvania; Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia; Gulf Breeze, Florida; the San Luis Valley (investigating cattle mutilation), the Lockheed Skunk Works; Wright-Patterson Air Force Base; Eglin Air Force Base; Cheyenne Mountain; Edwards Air Force Base; Hill Air Force Base; Dugway Proving Grounds; White Sands Missile Range and Hurlburt Field.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.

John Horrigan received five Boston/New England Emmy Awards (and had twenty nominations) for his role as host and writer of the critically-acclaimed television show entitled "The Folklorist". The program even featured paranormal segments on the Gloucester Sea Serpent, Ape Canyon, The Angels of Mons, Spring-heeled Jack and the Dover Demon. He has had an interest in unexplained mysteries and paranormal events for nearly 40 years. He began broadcasting about the unexplained on local access television and radio beginning in 1991, producing programs dedicated to mysterious phenomena such as Nightime Talk Television (1989), Omnibus Unlimited (1992), Tails (1993), AAHA (1999) and Forteana (2000). He was the last person to interview Betty Hill (alleged first alien abductee) in 1999 with “The Lost Betty Hill Interview”. His research into Unidentified Flying Objects took him to Roswell, New Mexico (three times); Area 51; Kecksburg, Pennsylvania; Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia; Gulf Breeze, Florida; the San Luis Valley (investigating cattle mutilation), the Lockheed Skunk Works; Wright-Patterson Air Force Base; Eglin Air Force Base; Cheyenne Mountain; Edwards Air Force Base; Hill Air Force Base; Dugway Proving Grounds; White Sands Missile Range and Hurlburt Field.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.

John Horrigan received five Boston/New England Emmy Awards (and had twenty nominations) for his role as host and writer of the critically-acclaimed television show entitled "The Folklorist". The program even featured paranormal segments on the Gloucester Sea Serpent, Ape Canyon, The Angels of Mons, Spring-heeled Jack and the Dover Demon. He has had an interest in unexplained mysteries and paranormal events for nearly 40 years. He began broadcasting about the unexplained on local access television and radio beginning in 1991, producing programs dedicated to mysterious phenomena such as Nightime Talk Television (1989), Omnibus Unlimited (1992), Tails (1993), AAHA (1999) and Forteana (2000). He was the last person to interview Betty Hill (alleged first alien abductee) in 1999 with “The Lost Betty Hill Interview”. His research into Unidentified Flying Objects took him to Roswell, New Mexico (three times); Area 51; Kecksburg, Pennsylvania; Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia; Gulf Breeze, Florida; the San Luis Valley (investigating cattle mutilation), the Lockheed Skunk Works; Wright-Patterson Air Force Base; Eglin Air Force Base; Cheyenne Mountain; Edwards Air Force Base; Hill Air Force Base; Dugway Proving Grounds; White Sands Missile Range and Hurlburt Field.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-x-zone-radio-tv-show--1078348/support.

Dr. Ravi Chaudhary, Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Energy Installations and Environment, is a leader who has taught his team to, "Eat no for breakfast." He lives by a value he learned from his mother at an early age: "If you do your full duty, the rest will take care of itself."   SUMMARY In this edition of Long Blue Leadership, Dr. Chaudhary discusses his role in modernizing and reoptimizing Air Force installations to withstand kinetic, cyber, economic, and extreme weather threats. He emphasizes the importance of ruggedizing installations for the Great Power Competition. Dr. Chaudhary shares his background, including his upbringing in Minneapolis and his parents' immigrant journey, and highlights the values instilled in him. He also discusses his work on the implementation of microgrids and microreactors to enhance energy resilience at critical installations like Eielson Air Force Base.   5 QUOTES "If you do your full duty, the rest will take care of itself." - This quote from Dr. Chaudhary's mother reflects the importance of dedication and doing one's job well. "We eat no for breakfast." - This quote highlights Dr. Chaudhary's team's determination to not accept limitations and push boundaries. "Love what you do. Love our nation." - Dr. Chaudhary emphasizes the importance of passion and patriotism in leadership. "America is not about what goes on entirely in Washington. It's about neighbors. It's about what you do for your neighbors." - This quote reflects Dr. Chaudhary's belief in the power of community and service. "Get out of the way and let them in." - Dr. Chaudhary's advice on enabling the next generation of leaders to excel.   SHARE THIS EPISODE LINKEDIN  |  TWITTER  |  FACEBOOK   CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction to Dr. Ravi Chaudhary and His Role 03:07 The Importance of Air Force Installations 06:08 Dr. Chaudhary's Early Life and Family Background 09:03 Lessons from Family: Service and Community 11:52 Reflections on the Air Force Academy Experience 14:54 Leadership Lessons from Cadet Days 18:01 The Role of Innovation in the Air Force 20:48 Strategic Imperatives for Future Operations 23:59 Optimism for the Future of the Air Force Academy 25:07 A Lifelong Dream: Becoming a Pilot 27:31 Launching Innovations: The GPS Program 28:36 Inspiring the Next Generation of Pilots 30:14 Adapting to Modern Challenges in Aviation 32:40 Navigating Change: The Evolution of Standards 34:57 Learning from Failure: A Personal Journey 35:42 The Role of the Assistant Secretary 38:55 Preparing for Great Power Competition 41:09 Innovative Energy Solutions for the Future 44:58 Leadership Lessons and Final Thoughts   5 KEYS TO LEADERSHIP Embrace failures as opportunities for growth. Dr. Chaudhary shared how his failures, like failing a check ride, ultimately helped him grow as a leader. Keep moving forward, even in the face of adversity. Dr. Chaudhary emphasized the importance of keeping your "legs moving" and not giving up when faced with challenges. Leverage the bonds formed with your team. Dr. Chaudhary highlighted how the bonds he formed with his classmates at the Academy carried over into his missions, demonstrating the power of camaraderie. Empower and enable the next generation. Dr. Chaudhary expressed optimism about the capabilities of the current cadets and emphasized the need to get out of their way and let them excel. Maintain a service-oriented, patriotic mindset. Dr. Chaudhary's passion for serving his country and community was evident throughout the interview, underscoring the importance of this mindset in effective leadership.   ABOUT DR. CHAUDHARY '93 BIO Dr. Ravi I. Chaudhary is the Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Energy, Installations, and Environment, Department of the Air Force, the Pentagon, Arlington, Virginia. Dr. Chaudhary is responsible for the formulation, review and execution of plans, policies, programs, and budgets to meet Air Force energy, installations, environment, safety, and occupational health objectives. Dr. Chaudhary most recently served as the acting Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Energy. Prior to this role, he served as the Director of Advanced Programs and Innovation, Office of Commercial Space Transportation, at the Federal Aviation Administration. He provided technical leadership and oversight for the commercial space industry, to include research and development activities to support Department of Transportation and White House National Space Council initiatives. Prior to this role, he served as Executive Director, Regions and Center Operations, at the FAA. In this role, he was responsible for leadership, integration and execution of aviation operations in nine regions nationwide. Dr. Chaudhary served as second in command to the Deputy Assistant Administrator and was responsible for providing Department of Transportation and FAA-wide services in the areas of operations, safety, policy, congressional outreach and emergency readiness for the National Aerospace System. Dr. Chaudhary commissioned in the Air Force in 1993 upon graduation from the United States Air Force Academy. He completed 21 years of service in a variety of command, flying, engineering and senior staff assignments in the Air Force. As a C-17 pilot, he conducted global flight operations, including numerous combat missions in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as a ground deployment as Director of the Personnel Recovery Center, Multi-National Corps, Iraq. As a flight test engineer, he was responsible for flight certification of military avionics and hardware for Air Force modernization programs supporting flight safety and mishap prevention. Earlier in his career, he supported space launch operations for the Global Positioning System and led third stage and flight safety activities to ensure full-operational capability of the first GPS constellation. As a systems engineer, he supported NASA's International Space Station protection activities to ensure the safety of NASA Astronauts. Dr. Chaudhary is a DoD Level III Acquisition Officer and has published numerous articles in future strategy, aircraft design, business transformation and space operations.  - Bio Copy Credit to AF.MIL   CONNECT WITH DR. CHAUDHARY LINKEDIN  |   INSTAGRAM  |  TWITTER     ABOUT LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP Long Blue Leadership drops every two weeks on Tuesdays and is available on Apple Podcasts, TuneIn + Alexa, Spotify and all your favorite podcast platforms. Search @AirForceGrads on your favorite social channels for Long Blue Leadership news and updates!          FULL TRANSCRIPT OUR SPEAKERS Guest, The Honorable Dr. Ravi I. Chaudhary '93  |  Host, Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz '99   Naviere Walkewicz 00:00 My guest today is the assistant secretary of the Air Force for energy installations and environment, the Honorable Dr. Ravi Chaudhary USAFA, Class of '93. Against the backdrop of Great Power Competition, Dr. Chaudhry leads the modernization and reoptimization of the Air Force to ruggedize our installations across the globe against what he describes as kinetic threats, as well as non-kinetic cyber, economic and extreme weather threats. He has served as acting deputy assistant secretary of the Navy for energy; the director of advanced programs and innovation, Office of Commercial Space Transportation at the Federal Aviation Administration; and he has led in the commercial space industry research and development in the support of the Department of Transportation and the White House, National Space Council. We'll talk with Dr. Chaudhry about his life before, during and after the Academy. We'll discuss his role, modernizing and re-optimizing initiatives and strategies for the Air Force. We'll touch on leading through new and changing threats and making decisions with climate in mind, and we'll discuss Dr. Chaudhary's work with the secretary of the Air Force and leadership at the base, command and warfighter levels. Finally, we'll ask Dr. Chaudhary to share advice for developing and advanced leaders. Dr. Chaudhary, welcome to Long Blue Leadership. We're so glad to have you.   Dr. Chaudhary 01:18 Navier, thank you so much. Thank you for that way too kind of an introduction, and I only have one regret. On this weekend, did you have to mention that I was in the Navy for a little while? You just about blew me away. I know you've got some white clear liquid here. I'm just about ready to find out what the clear liquid is.   Naviere Walkewicz Cheers.   Dr. Chaudhary 01:40 Off we go, and we'll let our audience speculate, and depending on how it goes, we'll critique ourselves. Just an honor to be here, and congrats to you on your career of service in the Air Force.   Naviere Walkewicz Thank you so much. This is truly a pleasure. And I think what we love about Long Blue Leadership is it's really about our listeners getting to know you. And we have so many different listeners that are really excited. So let's start with the hat. I've noticed we've got a hat on right here. “Air Force Installations: Best in the World.” Let's talk about it.   Dr. Chaudhary Yeah, let's talk about that. Because we do have the best installations in the world. Our installations are power projection platforms. Every Air Force installation has a mission that begins and terminates with it. If you go all the way back in our history, Gen. Hap Arnold had this to say about our installations: “Air bases are the determining factor in air operations.” Think about that. Think about why we need to make sure that our installations are ready to go, and why we invest in them as an Air Force. It's because you can't get the jets out of town unless they have a good runway that works, unless they are hardened and ready to absorb the types of blows that have come to us in the past. And I'm telling you right now that we've got to be ready for this future, in a decade of consequence in Great Power Competition. We've got to focus on ruggedizing and ensuring that our installations are as survivable as they ever have been.   Naviere Walkewicz Absolutely. Well, I can say that that is certainly true, having been at bases where we've seen some challenges, it does halt and sometimes stop operations. So yeah, you're right. Yeah. So it's incredible the work you're doing, and we're going to talk about that today. But before we get there, can we rewind the clock a little bit?   Dr. Chaudhary Please don't rewind it too far, but I have a feeling you will.   Naviere Walkewicz Just a little bit. Just enough to kind of get to know who Ravi was as a young boy. What were you like growing up? Tell us about your family and where you grew up.   Dr. Chaudhary That's cool. So, I was born and raised in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I grew up there all my life. My parents came from India in 1960s and they always dreamed to do the unusual, it was the American Dream that brought them to this country. And they had kids, you know, and growing up as a South Asian American, you know, people in community would be like, “Hey, you know, why are you going to join the military? Why are you going to, you know, once you just be a doctor or engineer or lawyer or something like that?” Kind of fit the stereotype. But I always thought about it this way: If my parents would give up everything they wanted in their life, their language, their culture, everything to pursue their dreams, wouldn't they want that for their children as well? And so off I went to the Air Force Academy, and the values that my parents instilled in me rang true just about every single day. In fact, when I grow up, my mom would always tell me this. She'd say, “You know, if you do your full duty, the rest will take care of itself.”   Naviere Walkewicz That sounds very familiar to me.   Dr. Chaudhary And she would say, in the Sanskrit word for that — and my faith tradition is Hinduism — the Sanskrit word for that is “dharm.” If you follow your dharm, everything will take care of itself. And lo and behold, I'm getting choked up a little bit, because when I showed up and opened that Contrails and saw that quote, I knew that Mom and Dad had prepared me, had prepared me for the challenges that would come, not just the Academy, but everything from 9/11 to deploying to Iraq to raising a family and making sure they have everything they need to prosper. So, all that brought me to an institution that honestly brought out the flavor and gave me in the same opportunity that this country gave my father. So, it's just been a pinch-me career, and it's just an honor to be here with you today and with the entire AOG team talking about this.   Naviere Walkewicz 05:36 That's amazing. I mean, I, thinking about what you just said, that your parents came and they pursued a dream. What was that like in your household? What did that look like?   Dr. Chaudhary 05:45 Here's what it looked like. My dad — he actually came to this country with about $165, $80 of which went to his tuition. He was at University of Missouri, and then he eventually went to University of Minnesota. The rest he used to get a house and fill the fridge. And so, when he was looking for an opportunity to serve, he wanted to be in the U.S. Department of Agriculture and serve as a fed and so he didn't get that chance. So, what he did, he literally drove, put me and my brother and my mom in a car and drove to Washington. When he drove to Washington, he dropped us off at the Lincoln Memorial and walked up the stairs of the Capitol. Two senators from Minnesota, one was walking out, Sen. Walter Mondale. He said hello to him. He didn't know him from Adam. And then he went to the office of Hubert Humphrey and he sat down with him, and he told his story to Hubert Humphrey and Hubert Humphrey said, “This is what America is all about.” And he was kind enough to give my dad a shot in Minneapolis. And he spent his entire career, 25 years, as a federal inspector in the U.S. Department of Agriculture.   Naviere Walkewicz My goodness.   Dr. Chaudhary It's an incredible story. But you know what? It all came together about a year and a half ago when I was confirmed and during my swearing, and it was honored to have Sec. Kendall swear me in, but to have my dad walk up the front steps of the Pentagon with my mom and I. We go up the stairs, and I said, “Dad, would you turn around for a second?” And he turned around. I said, “You know, you can see the Lincoln Memorial and you can see the Capitol.” And I said, “Look what you've done in one generation.” That is the embodiment of the American dream. And as he was kind of — I'm getting choked up — he wiped the tears from his eyes. He realized that that that what this country has given to us is something that we've got to always think about giving back and giving back, and that's really what my career has always been about, giving back to the country that has given my family everything.   Naviere Walkewicz 07:59 That is amazing. Wow. I mean, I'm almost without words, because I can see what your dad has instilled in you, made possible, but instilled in you as a servant leader as well. I'm just… that's pretty impressive. So, tell me about your mom, because it sounds like she also instilled some pretty incredible traits in you and some beliefs in how to treat people. What did that look like in, her leadership in your life?   Dr. Chaudhary 08:26 What can I say about my mom? She's a pillar of the community back in Minneapolis. She runs a nonprofit called Seva. In Hindi, seva means service, to serve, serve your fellow citizens, serve your nation. And again, I told you about her, her enduring quote, “If you do your full duty, the rest will take care of itself.” So, in that nonprofit, she is actually bringing cultural-specific services, health services, to the Asian American community. One thing she did during Covid was incredible. She pulled together a meal team, and she served somewhere around 20,000 seniors. And it wasn't just Asian Americans, anybody in the Minneapolis community that was struggling, that couldn't get food, that was having a tough time. And then, as you know, after the George Floyd tragedy occurred, the town, the city went through a tough time, and there was an area right around one of the police stations where the riots were going on and everybody was fleeing when. When the community was fleeing, she was mobilizing her team to go in. They were going in and they were rescuing people from shelters to get them to a safe place. And two days later, she brought a team into the community that was still smoldering and set up meal stations to just give people sandwiches, bread, whatever — to just make everybody feel good and move forward, and that's what America is about. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in the times and differences, but we realize that America is more than just Washington. America is about neighbors and neighbors caring for each other. So, where did I learn that? I learned that from my mom, but the Air Force Academy brought it out, and I applied that every single day, whether it was a mission launching GPSs, doing engineering — tough engineering problems, or flying missions into the CENTCOM AOR, where we had to bring crews to bear to execute incredible missions. And so, reflecting on that — boy, you're really tearing me up today…   Naviere Walkewicz No, not at all…   Dr. Chaudhary …because you're bringing this all out of my heart, and it's just an honor to be here and humbling to tell the story. But I know that there are thousands and thousands of grads out there that have just as inspiring stories, and that's why I love to come to AOG. That's why I like to spend time with our cadets today, which was just as incredible. I went down to Jacks Valley and got to see the assault course as well. Luckily, I didn't have too many flashbacks.   Naviere Walkewicz I was going to say, did you have your rubber ducky with you?   Dr. Chaudhary Yeah, I did not. They didn't push me through it, but the demo was incredible. And I know our secretary was equally impressed with the cadets and the caliber of students that are here, the caliber of our cadets, and how I'm so optimistic for the future of our Air Force and Space Force.   Naviere Walkewicz 11:33 Absolutely. And I can share, based off of what you shared about your mom and dad, there's no reason why you're [not] able to take on a job that almost seems impossible with the scope and breadth of what you're responsible for. So, I can't wait to get into that as well. Can we go to when you're at the Academy? I want to know more about you as a cadet, because as interesting as you are as an adult, what were you like as a cadet?   Dr. Chaudhary 11:54 There's a lot that I really shouldn't disclose. Okay, so we've got to be really, really careful. So, me and my classmates, we have this thing called “mutually assured destruction.” You know stories about me, I know stories about you. Just leave it there. But let me tell you, the Academy was just the honor of a lifetime. But you know what — going through it with your classmates is something. I was just having lunch with our cadets today. I was a grad of Delta Tau Deuce, and to spend time with them and tell them stories, and hear about their stories, about what Deuce is like these days, was absolutely just, I was just blown away with it. But yep, I was primarily in Deuce. I had the just pleasure of beaing a squadron commander and having peers that really care for each other, peers that I keep in touch with. To this very day, I have them up on text.   Naviere Walkewicz Oh, wow.   Dr. Chaudhary And we share with each other. We have challenges. We go through it together, but I will tell you one story about why your cadet story matters, and you don't realize it until the balloon goes up. When I graduated from pilot training, I graduated essentially the day after 9/11 and I was actually in the planning room when 9/11 happened, and within a few weeks — I did my check ride that day — within a few weeks, I was at Charleston Air Force Base, and my squadron commander had me look out the window and said, “We don't have time to mission qual you. We don't have enough pilots. We're going to marry you up with a crew to go down range.” And you know what he did? He married me up with two people, one who was my classmate from the Class of 1993,   Naviere Walkewicz Really?   Dr. Chaudhary Two was a member of my squadron from Deuce, and he was a new aircraft commander. We had an experienced first pilot, and I didn't know nothing from nothing. I was a brand-new co-pilot. And so, getting ready for that, for those missions, a new environment for me, required something that our squadron commander knew that if I put three Academy graduates together, the bond that they've had in their years was going to carry them through toughest conditions, in unknown conditions. And sure enough, we clicked and did well. But to anybody who's a current cadet and listening in and wondering, “Hey, is this bonding — is what's going on now, the time that we have together here in the Academy going to amount to anything?” I'm here to tell you, it does and through my own life experiences, and quite honestly, in a number of missions, we fly working it together as a team. The bonds we create as cadets carry over for decades.   Naviere Walkewicz 14:54 So maybe you can share some of those bonding moments at the Academy. You said you were a squadron commander. What were some of the lessons you learned from a leadership aspect, in leading your peers, but also while still trying to bond with them?   Dr. Chaudhary 15:08 Yeah, when you look back, sometimes you're separated by age and rank, right? You got age and you got rank and your peer groups kind of set you that way. At the Academy, it's completely different because your peers, as a senior, you're all peers and colleagues, and to take on a leadership role is what I would say is the toughest challenge of all. To lead a team of peers and colleagues can be challenging. And there's challenges that really kind of come with everything like that, but to me, you can't do it without collaboration, without consulting folks and being inclusive in how you give people a voice. Now the jury is out — I'm not going to judge whether I was successful or not. Probably not, you know? But I will say we did one thing: It was gonna be we were gonna be the athletic squadron of the year. We were a beast. In fact, we decided that we were gonna go for one thing: We were the athletic squadron. And so, we did.   Naviere Walkewicz That's impressive!   Dr. Chaudhary We kicked some serious buttt. So, back in the day, you do what was called a sweep. So, if you swept all your sports and intramurals that day, you would, the next day, you would get Mitch's Mountains. And so, the lore of Mitch's Mountains was incredible. And today, interestingly enough, we had what I would call Mitch's Mountain version 2.0 — probably half the calories and twice the caffeine. I don't know what it is. But I actually whipped out a picture of an old Mitch's Mountain. And I show them, they're like, it was really funny, because to see the look in their eyes and to see an original Mitch's Mountain, it was like, oh, you know they looked at and they're like, “That's what a Mitch's…” And they're like, “There's an Oreo cookie on top!” I'm like, for us, “Ok, this is a nice 2.0” and everything, like you gotta go back to…   Naviere Walkewicz 17:05 So, how many of those did you get? If you were actually the athletic squadron, you must have swept multiple days.   Dr. Chaudhary 17:12 You see the love handles on me right now? That was the one challenge. Because, you know, [you‘ve] got to stay in shape. But we kicked some serious butt; we would sweep all the time. I was actually on the water polo team…   Naviere Walkewicz 17:25 …we share that. I did not enjoy it. It sounds like you might.   Dr. Chaudhary 17:30 I don't know. So, I'm a decent swimmer. I'm pretty good. Grew up in Minnesota, tons of lakes. I could say I'm a decent swimmer, but I can tell you I am not a water polo player. So, what they used me for in water polo…   Naviere Walkewicz Were you the buouy?   Dr. Chaudhary I was the anti-buoy, because whoever was the good player, they'd say, “Go and put your arms over that one and get them underwater,” so that our fellow water polo teammate could go in and score. And so, probably one of my most beloved plaques in my life is my water polo plaque because we were Wing champs.   Naviere Walkewicz Oh, my goodness!   Dr. Chaudhary We ran the tables and were Wing champs, and that plaque still sits on my desk. It's one of my most beloved things. You know, my wife, she's getting ready to toss it. I'm like, “No, no, not that!”   Naviere Walkewicz Not the water polo plaque!   Dr. Chaudhary She's like, “Oh, what about this graduation plaque from the Academy?” You can get rid of that, but don't get rid of my water polo plaque. That is beloved. So anyways, I was asking cadets today, “What's Deuce like?” I'm like, “So are you guys a training squadron?”   Naviere Walkewicz What are they like?   Dr. Chaudhary They're like, “We're the standards squadron.” And I'm like, “Wow, that's impressive.” I'm like, “What about Mach One? Are they the training?” So, they're like, “Mach One. Nah, not really.” They're like, “We're No. 1 in SAMIs. We're No. 1 is…? I'm like, “Oh, wow, they still have SAMIs and stuff like that.” Have fun. Yeah, that was a haze for me. Triple threats were always a haze, yes, so I never liked that, because well…   Naviere Walkewicz 18:49 Maybe the Deuce team does now.   Dr. Chaudhary 18:53 Mach One, they loved it. I've got friends from Mach One. They're gonna kill me, but yeah, they love it. They're all into it. Cleaning their rooms and Deuce would be on the corner going, “Would Mach One please go to bed?” So anyway, sorry. But yeah, it was an interesting time, you know, talking with some of our cadets.   Naviere Walkewicz 19:26 I love these stories. So, were you this happy as a cadet?   Dr. Chaudhary 19:31 No, I was not a happy cadet. I was a surviving kid. I was trying to get through the next day. And honestly, to me, it was always a wonder to be there, and I was always grateful for being there to serve. I was in a tough major, aero major, and honestly, it didn't come right away to me. And so I was not one of those sterling cadets that just rocks the house and everything. I was on the Comm List for a good portion of the time, but the academics took some time for me. I spent a lot of time in the aero lab. And, you know, the cool thing is, …  I did projects and drag reduction, and we we tested these winglets on the tips of wings, and we did flow visualization. I had this professor. His name was Tom Yechout, and I was talking to some aero majors today. They're like, “You know, Tom Yechout?” And I'm like…   Naviere Walkewicz He's still there.   Dr. Chaudhary “He teaches controls here” I go, “Well, he taught me flight controls as well.” But he supervised me, and one time, I think, maybe at the last reunion, he brought me to the cabinet, and he opened up the cabinet and he showed me the hardware that we used for our project.   Naviere Walkewicz 20:39 From your class?   Dr. Chaudhary 20:43 Yeah.   Naviere Walkewicz That's amazing!   Dr. Chaudhary And here's why I'm telling you that: When in my interview with Sec. Kendall, he sat me down and he was talking about, “Hey, in your in your team, we're doing some drag reduction activities.” And he's like, “What do you know about blended wing body aircraft?” And it turns out, not only had I done some research on that, I had done a project at Staff College and to me, you know, my message to cadets out there who are working on a project who are wondering, “Hey, is this going to amount to anything? Does this matter?” I'm here to tell you that it does, because the type of work that goes on at this Academy is literally out of this world. We got folks who are working with SpaceX. I went down and that we're actually doing a project called the blended wing aircraft, which is like a big flying manta ray. It's going to reduce fuel consumption by roughly 30% to reduce fuel for fuel consumption across our Air Force and extend our range.   Naviere Walkewicz How are we going to do that?   Dr. Chaudhary Well, we're going to build a prototype in 2027. One of my sections is operational energy, and we have a team dedicated to reducing drag on aircraft, finding efficiencies. Why is this important? Well, it's because in Great Power Competition, we know that our adversaries are going to come after our logistics and fuel — our resources. And as a logistician, you know that. Our adversaries are targeting our installations, they're going to target our fuel resources. So, what's the best thing we can do? We can be as efficient as we can with our fuel and flying C-17s, is one thing you get to know real quick that if you land at an austere location, you're going to drain that fuel bladder almost instantly. And what does that mean? That means less sorties. That's less fire missions if you're flying Apache's out of there. That means less fuel for generators if you lose power. That means less ability to get your CAPs in the air, and we've got to embody that as a department and be ready for what that challenge holds for us. So getting efficient with our field, to me, isn't something that we're going to do because we're nice. We're going to do it because it's going to be an imperative. It's going to be a strategic imperative, and we've got to be ready for that. And so, we've been working hard at those things. The blended wing body aircraft is a long-term thing that it's been out there for a long time, but we've got to proof it. And so, it's really cool…   Naviere Walkewicz It's almost full-circle for you.   Dr. Chaudhary Yeah, it's incredible. And we just were at this, at the plant for Jet Zero. We did a visit there to spend some time with them and look at look at their production facility. And what do I see when I walk in the conference room? Five cadets sitting on the end of the table, learning, taking notes, interacting with the top systems engineers. And interestingly enough, one of those cadets had come and visited me and spent the summer — actually, three of them. She was part of a team of three that came and visited my organization and worked on the impacts of strategic temperature changes and how it will affect payloads for tanker aircraft. And so, they did this research, presented me this paper, and now here I am seeing them at industry being on the leading edge. And to me — let me tell you that filled me with so much optimism and excitement for the future, and most importantly, what we're producing here at the Air Force Academy, a top-notch engineering school that is regarded across the industry. So, a little turn to academics there, but big shout out to what we're doing across our academic programs. I just think we're on the right track, and we need to keep up the momentum.   Naviere Walkewicz 24:30 No, that's huge. I was actually going to ask you, how are you leveraging some of our cadets in some of the things you're doing? But it sounds like they're already doing it.   Dr. Chaudhary 24:40 Check! Done. They're rocking the house. Just, just leading the way. It's awesome.   Naviere Walkewicz 24:43 That's amazing. Yeah. So, let's talk about — and I'm really curious — so, after you graduate the Academy, did you know you always wanted to be a pilot, by the way? Did you know you wanted to fly?   Dr. Chaudhary 24:50 I can't remember a day where I wasn't drawing airplanes. And you're asking me about when I was younger. You know, “What kind of kid were you?” I was a kid who was drawing airplanes. OK, I was the kid with the airplane books. I was a kid who was checking out every single airplane book and library and learning about them and trying to understand them and wanting to know more. And so naturally, it was just — I can't think of a day where I didn't want to be an aerospace engineer, be a pilot. And you know, sometimes the ebb and flow of demand for the Air Force —there was a time of reduction in pilots for the for the Academy, and I didn't get that opportunity then and it was a bummer. But you know, if you do your full duty, the rest will take care of itself. And so, I landed at Los Angeles Air Force Base where we launched this program. I got to launch rocket programs. And you may have heard of this particular payload: It's called GPS.   Naviere Walkewicz 25:44 I might have heard of that one, yes…   Dr. Chaudhary 25:47 …and it was the first time we were doing it. And we're young lieutenants, and we're at Los Angeles Air Force Base, and I was getting the responsibility for third-stage engines and ordnance systems and some of the avionics, and my boss said, “We don't have time. We're launching rockets every single month. I need you to go out to this corporation called Thiokol, and I want you to buy that rocket.” And by the way, he said it in a way that was like, “Don't screw this up,” right?   Naviere Walkewicz The undertone was there.   Dr. Chaudhary Yeah, we've had that don't-screw-it-up moment. And so that was one of them. And so, the one thing that I remember is that our Academy demands a lot, and it demands a lot for a reason. Because leaders will be demanding a lot of brand new officers. Now the jury's out as to how well I did, but we had three we had three successful missions, and we delivered full operational capabilities for our department. And to me, I look back on that. I, believe it or not, still keep in touch with the captain who welcomed me, who brought me on the team and, in 2018, I got the incredible opportunity to let the last Delta II rocket go. And I brought my wife and my daughter with me, and that kind of brought the whole band back together. And it was cool to have kind of the old space cowboys and in the room again going, “Well, let's, let's let this rocket go for one last time.”   Naviere Walkewicz That is really cool.   Dr. Chaudhary And the best part of it was, after that rocket went and you felt the rumble — the rumble of a rocket, there's nothing like it in the world. When you feel the rumble go into your stomach — I leaned over my daughter. I go, “What do you think?” She said, “I am doing that.”   Naviere Walkewicz 27:34 I was just going to ask you, did it bleed over into your daughter?   Dr. Chaudhary 27:38 Now, she's a cadet at Georgia Tech. She just finished field training, and of course, like every good Academy graduate should do, buck the system. So, she bucked the system with her dad and said, “I'm gonna do ROTC and go to Georgia Tech. So, good luck this weekend against Navy. I'll kind of vote for you, but just want to let you know the Academy is a lot easier than Georgia Tech.” So, she and I jaw back and forth, but watching her grow has been really cool. And I got a chance to take her up and fly and get her ready for her career. She wants to be a pilot. And let me tell you, we got nothing on this next generation. They are ready for technology. They are ready for the leading edge, and we've just got to enable them. Honestly, we've got to get the hell out of the way and let them in. There's one situation, we had new avionics on the aircraft. I won't bore you with the details, but it allows you to deconflict from traffic. It's a GPS-based instrument, and I was kind of flying with her one time a few years ago, and I said, “All right, well, this is what is so, you know that little piece, you know 2,000 below you, positive means 2,000 above you. It's closing it…” She's like, “Dad, Dad, Dad, stop, stop!”   Naviere Walkewicz 28:58 She knew…   Dr. Chaudhary 29:00 She knew how to interact with that technology, and honestly, I didn't. I was learning how to interact with that technology. So, we've got to really make sure that we're blazing a path for our next generation, but at the same time, make sure that that we're not getting in their way. And I think sometimes we do that as grads. We're like, “I was like this when I was there…” You know? I was at Mitchell Hall today, and I saw the 0-96 up there and it's memorialized. And I walked by that thing…   Naviere Walkewicz 29:32 Did you scan the QR code to fill one out?   Dr. Chaudhary 29:33 Yeah, I did not do the QR code. I was like, that's too much for me. But when you look at it, you know, I thought, I'm like, that's probably where that thing ought to be right now. It's a great remembrance of why it's important, why standards are important, and then the example of how it paid off in combat conditions and saved a life was pretty important. But I'll be honest with you, we find other ways today with this next generation. I can remember flying one mission and we lost SATCOMMS with a particular field, and we were roughly maybe six hours out for Iraq in the combat zone, and we didn't know the status of the field. And one of the things you need to do is make sure the field's not under attack. So, before we did that, we're like, “Hey, how do we get our 30-minute… You know, it just wasn't happening. But you know what we're doing. We had brevity codes. And all along the line, all the C-17s that were lined up miles after miles going all the way back to Azerbaijan at 30,000 feet. We're all on. We're communicating. … We're using brevity code, so, we're not giving anything away. We're using our brevity code, and we're saying this is the status of the field. And we're relaying, we're literally relaying a half world away. That's a testament to our pilot corps, testament to duty. And so it's really in the spirit of that 0-96 there that we've adopted. So, when people say, “Oh, that tradition is going to ruin us, you know, we're going to lose standards.” I could tell you that, even though we got rid of that thing, that we're still an effective force. And I think we have to understand that a little more and as we kind of move through a period of change at USAFA — I was talking to our cadets about, “Hey, what do you think about the changes?” and, “Yeah, well, restrictions, but I understand on the importance.” I'm going to hearken back to 1991 or so, when the first Gulf War kicked off, and we were cadets when that thing kicked off, and almost instantly we moved into BDUs. We started wearing those every day. We started creating the warfighter mindset. We sealed off to make sure that we had good security. We canceled a lot of passes, and you  know what we did? We moved from a fourth-class system to a four-class system. Sound familiar? Sound familiar? That was after the war kicked off. Think about that. After the war kicked off. Our superintendent is trying to do it before the war kicks off, to make sure that we're ready, ready to fight the fight and get into it. So, I have a lot of respect for our superintendent and taking this step. I do agree that we've got to get execution right. Sometimes you get some growing pains with those things, but I think we've got to step back in the grad community and digest a little bit and get behind some of the changes that have been going on. And I was talking to some cadets last night, I go, “What do you think of this?” And they're like, “We understand it. It hurts a little bit.” Because the expectations … the environment that we're in has now changed. And you know, honestly, I'll shoot straight from the hip and say that sometimes it feels like the goal post is being moved on you, because you meet one standard, and then they move again. Yeah, you know, things get tough, but we're a resilient institution, and when you get down to the brass tacks of who we are as grads, the core of what we do and execute our mission will never go away. And we've just got to blaze a path for our next generation to be successful.   Naviere Walkewicz 33:24 Absolutely. Well, speaking of blaze a path — and I think some of our listeners want to hear sometimes, you know they have times when they fail at things in leadership. How do you grow from that? Can you share a time when you experience failure and what it looked like, to help inspire them through that.   Dr. Chaudhary 33:42 Yep. Well, worst day of my life was when I failed a check-ride. I failed a simulator check-ride in the C-17. And it hurt. It hurt bad. I had aspirations in my career. I was like, “What's this gonna mean for me?” But you know some really smart folks, and that's when you turn to people who you really go to for advice, and it's like, you know, “Ravi, there are those who have and those who will.” So honestly, I just needed a smack in the head. They're like, “Get over it, man. You know, whatever you failed check-ride. Go out there, clean that thing up and those ups and downs in a flying career occur.” I'm being 100% honest with you, my failures are stacked up right next to my successes. And so, I think, to me, the failures were the things that helped me grow, grow through things and sometimes you think, “OK, well, that failure was unfair. I got, you know, I got a raw deal out of that.” Maybe I did, maybe I didn't, but you keep moving forward. Keep taking one step after another. Now I'm not a football guy. I love football. Watch about I never played football, but I do know what running back coaches say. I think, I'm not sure, they say, “Above all, always keep your legs moving. Don't ever up when you're running. Keep your legs moving.” And so, to me, I've always taken that advice. I've given that advice to other people too, especially when they come to me with challenges.   Naviere Walkewicz 35:09 That's great advice. So maybe we can talk about your role now a little bit. And so, can you actually explain what you do? It might actually be shorter to say what you don't do, because when I look at the description, it's quite a bit. We have listeners that are parents and that maybe don't have a lot of military background and really understand. So, I think it's wonderful to share with the full community.   Dr. Chaudhary 35:31 Yeah, let me talk about the position. So, the job is one of those long titles. It's the assistant secretary for energy, installations and the environment. First thing first. I'm not a military member. I am a presidential appointee, so my job is as an appointee, a Senate-confirmed appointee. That means that you go through a hearing like you see in TV, and you get voted on, right? You get the vote. I was lucky enough to have after a period of being held, I had a bipartisan vote. And so that was pretty neat to have that. But my role specifically is to ensure that our installations are ready for the fight, for the future fight, and for current conditions. Things that I lose sleep over: Right now we're in a decade of consequence that our secretary and chief regularly say that decade of consequence includes great power competition in which China and Russia seek to shape the world order in ways that that work to their advantage, in autocratic manner, and so we've got to be ready for that, and that includes establishing an important deterrence. So, my job is to make sure installations are strong and present an approach of deterrence, and when deterrence failed, be ready to win. So, what does that mean for us? That means ensuring that our installations have power capabilities, that have strong runways, that have strong hangars, strong facilities, and included in which — families live on installations as well — to ensure we have top-notch housing. So, you'll see me reaching across all those areas, but importantly enough, making sure that those installations have the right power is critical. Our adversaries have declared their intent and have the capacity to go after our critical infrastructure, and that's the one thing that keeps me up at night: making sure that we have critical redundancies and opportunities to if somebody comes after our infrastructure tries to cut our power, we have redundant capabilities, that our control systems are cyber hardened. And you mentioned earlier, both kinetic and cyber threats. So roughly in the past two decades, as China has modernized our CENTCOM theater has really shaped an environment in which CONUS installations are under threat a little bit, but not entirely. We could be relatively confident that Grand Forks would be generally safe from ISIS from a major attack. In Great Power Competition, all of that goes out the window. Our adversaries, to include Russia and China, know how to go after critical infrastructure. They know how to employ cyber capabilities, and that's why we've got to make sure that we are pursuing cyber hardened energy control systems that protect you from those threats, and the ability to island from the local grid when we need to. So, here's one thing we're doing. I'm on a march over the next five years to bring 20 or so micro grids across our most critical installations. A micro grid — it's kind of like a power bar. You plug it in the wall and you can plug in renewable energy, you plug in wind, geo, you know, all kinds of things into that — solar — to build critical redundancies. So ultimately, building those redundancies allows you to harden your capabilities at the installation and micro-reactors give you the ability to manage and distribute power where you need it. Now we can also put in battery storage. So, battery storage allows you to — when the balloon goes up, boom, put in a firewall with the local community and get the jets out of town. Keep your employed in-place mission moving and build critical redundancies. Then once the jets are out of town, plug back in and share that power with a local community, because we know that our adversaries are going to be driving civil disruption to affect the efficiency of our installations as well, too. So that dynamic is really complex.   Naviere Walkewicz Wow, and the time is compressed.   Dr. Chaudhary And the time is compressed, so we won't have time to react as quickly. So, we've got to prepare for an all-new environment in our installations. And it goes right back to the Hap Arnold quote. We've got to make sure that they're ready to ensure our operations are effective. And I was recently at Eielson Air Force Base, and what we're doing at Eielson is really novel. We're going to put in a small, modular micro-reactor, a small baby nuclear reactor.   Naviere Walkewicz Is there a small version of that?   Dr. Chaudhary Yeah, there is a small version, but it hadn't been developed yet, and we decided that we're going to push on with this new capability and bring it to Eielson Air Force Base. The key is to now — back in the day, we used to do something, proof it military-wise, and then see if it's viable in the in the commercial market, right? Not anymore. We're going to do it all concurrently. So, we're going to pursue a Nuclear Regulatory Commission license. We've been engaging the local community. They love it, including tribal nations, who know that power advantages are going to be important for sharing in the community. And so that will be the first micronuclear reactor in any installation. We're looking to award in the spring or sooner, and then get this thing up and running in 2027. Why is this important at Eielson? And you're like, “Whoa, it's way up in Alaska.” Eielson is a critical entry point for the INDOPACOM theater.   Naviere Walkewicz I was gonna say, where it's located…   Dr. Chaudhary It's where the one of the highest concentrations of our 5th-gen fighter force is at. It's where we do air defense, and it's where our mobility forces will be moving from Fort Wainwright all the way down range. So that's a critical node, and there's a few more of those that we've got to really, really stay focused on. So, energy and, by the way, a happy Energy Action Month as well. This month is Energy Action Month where we're looking at how we can improve power consumption across our Air Force and be more efficient. And bringing these micro-grids online is going to be a crucial, crucial aspect of that.   Naviere Walkewicz 42:07 Well, something I've learned about you is that you're not afraid to push the envelope, push the speed, but do it, like you said, concurrently and to find some solutions. And I don't know that there's anyone else that could do it just like are you're doing it.   Dr. Chaudhary 42:19 It's not me, it's my team. I have an incredible team of folks that refuse to accept anything [less] than excellence in our department. In fact, we have a saying in our organization that, “We eat no for breakfast.” So, I dare you to tell us no and that we can't do something. One of our coolest announcements recently that we were told “no” to for roughly three years, was a new apartment complex at Edwards Air Force Base. So, some folks may not know this, but Edwards Air Force Space is very isolated, and it's located in the desert, and so it takes roughly 45 minutes to get to the base once you get through the gate. And so, isolation of our military members, especially our junior enlisted, has been around for roughly four decades or more. And when we said, “Hey, let's do a venture-backed business model that allows us to bring state of the art departments not in MILCOM timeline like right now, timeline…” And so, we just announced an all-new venture commercial apartment complex that we just broke ground on, and we're going to start building, hopefully done by 2026 and these are timelines that allow us to move the Air Force forward aggressively. Another thing that we're doing is, I just announced a $1.1 billion investment in our dormitories and CDCs. As you know, quality of life is so critical. Back to this: If we're going to be, say that we're the number, have the number one installations in the world, we've got to live up to it, and that means our families need that too, as well. So, you've heard a lot about the GAO reports, everything from mold to decrepit housing. We're going to fix that, we're going to get ahead of it, and we're going to stay ahead of it. And so that's why our secretary, in our most recent president's budget, announced this. All we need is a budget now, yeah, and so, so our secretary is pressing hard for that, and we know that once that budget is approved, we can get working on these things and start changing quality of life and start upping our game in our installations.   Naviere Walkewicz 44:23 Well, I'm gonna take one of those leadership nuggets as “just eat no for breakfast,” but we're gonna learn more about your final takeaway lessons. Before we do that with you. Dr Chaudhary, I wanna thank you for listening to Long Blue Leadership. The podcast publishes Tuesdays in both video and audio, and it's available on all your favorite podcast platforms, watch or listen to all episodes of Long Blue Leadership at longblueleadership.org. Dr Chaudhary, this has been incredible. If you might leave our listeners with one thing, what would you like to share with them when it comes to leadership, or maybe just some lessons or anything about you that you'd like to share?   Dr. Chaudhary 44:57 Love what you do. Love our nation. I love my country because it's given me and my family everything. And I want everybody to believe that, you know, sometimes we get in these periods where we feel divided right across the spectrum, and it doesn't matter what your affiliation is, sometimes you just feel that. But I want folks to remember that America is not about what goes on entirely in Washington. It's about neighbors. It's about what you do for your neighbors. And to me, that's our biggest strength as a nation. You know, many years ago, our forefathers felt that the values of equality, fair treatment and self-determination would be enough to topple an empire, and it is. We should believe that too, and I want everybody to know that. So, it's an honor to be here. But before I go, I want to say thank you for just an intriguing hour. It's an honor to be here, and I want to give you my personal challenge coin…   Naviere Walkewicz Oh my goodness…   Dr. Chaudhary …and say thank you so much. It embodies a lot of what we do, military family housing, airfields, of course our beautiful 5th-gen fighter aircraft and our wind power and capabilities as a symbol of what we've got to do for installation school.   Naviere Walkewicz 46:16 That is an honor, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much. Oh my goodness, thank you.   Dr. Chaudhary 46:20 It was a great hour, and just a pleasure to spend time with…   Naviere Walkewicz 46:26 It was my pleasure. There's so much I wanted ask you and I know we're limited on time … Is there anything we can do for you?   Dr. Chaudhary 46:36 Just keep doing what you do. Keep making sure that our grads out there have a voice, have a say, and can contribute to all this institution has to offer our nation. And so, you're doing it, and I can't thank you enough for it.   Naviere Walkewicz 46:49 Thank you very much.     KEYWORDS Air Force, Dr. Ravi Chaudhary, leadership, installations, energy, community service, innovation, military, great power competition, sustainability, Air Force Academy, leadership, aviation, innovation, energy solutions, GPS, pilot training, military standards, personal growth, resilience     MORE FROM DR. CHAUDHARY ON THE FOR THE ZOOMIES PODCAST with C1C ANDREW CORMIER '25     The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation      

What a combination eh? Well, true. Lindsey Brown is the Senior Social Media Manager for NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) and she also models from time to time. Lindsey was born in the UK to a German mother and a costa Rican father. When she was born her father was serving in the U.S. military based in the UK. As Lindsey explains she now has both German and U.S. citizenships.   Lindsey will tell us about wanting to undertake a fashion career and so after college where she obtained a Bachelor's degree in business, she began to seek a modeling career. She got her wish, but eventually realized that her life calling would take her in different directions.   Eventually in 2019 she joined NAMI as its senior Social Media manager. However, she did not totally drop modeling. Who knows, you might see her picture somewhere.   We talk a great deal about various aspects of mental health. Lindsey talks freely about her own mental health issues including burnout.   About the Guest:   I embody the essence of a multi-hyphenate, navigating the realms of a "slash culture." Born in the UK to German and Costa Rican parents, I hold citizenship in Germany and the US, setting the stage for my diverse journey. My passions, evolving into career paths, sprouted early. A love for travel, fashion, and mental well-being, my personal "peace," became integral to my identity. At 21, my foray into the fashion world began when I signed with my first modeling agency in New York. From runway to print, e-commerce to fitting, I collaborated with renowned outlets and brands like Essence, Marie Claire, Ashley Stewart, Soapbox, and DevaCurl. Adapting to industry shifts, I transitioned to become a fashion buyer in menswear and footwear, bridging the creative and business facets. To refine my skills, I pursued an MBA while concurrently juggling my roles as a buyer and a model. Today, my titles encompass Model, Senior Social Media Manager for NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness), and Freelance Brand Consultant. A dedicated community builder, my role at NAMI enables me to establish safe and positive online communities for individuals navigating mental health. Additionally, I collaborate with social media platforms to enhance safety and user experience. My journey is a testament to the harmonious blend of diverse passions and impactful work.   Ways to connect with Lindsey:   ·      Social Media Links o   Personal accounts §  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/lindseygene_/ §  LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindseygbrown/ o   NAMI §  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/namicommunicate/ §  X - https://twitter.com/NAMICommunicate §  Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/NAMI §  LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/nami §  TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@nami?lang=en §  YouTube - @NAMICommunicate §  Threads - https://www.threads.net/@namicommunicate ·      Website – nami.org     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. Today we get to talk to Lindsey Brown. Who's Lindsey Brown? Boy? Are you gonna find out by the time this episode is over? It's interesting. Lindsey describes herself as the essence of a multi hyphenate, which I love, and we'll have to really talk about that. And she exists in and embodies a slash culture, another thing that we need to talk about, and so many other things. So I think we're going to have lots of fun and lots of questions. And Lindsey, I know, has a lot to talk with us about. She's going to talk to us also about NAMI, and we'll get to that as well. But for now, let's start with Lindsay. I really want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and thank you very much for being here.   Lindsey Brown ** 02:10 Thank you for having me. I'm excited well,   Michael Hingson ** 02:14 and I am as well. It's been fun getting to know you a little bit and reading information about you and so on. So here we are. Well, let's start with the real early Lindsay. Why don't you tell us about Lindsay growing up and some of that stuff.   Lindsey Brown ** 02:28 Oh, that I have some people say little Lindsay, um, I take it. I'll take it back to to the beginning, right? Um, so a long   Michael Hingson ** 02:36 time ago in a galaxy far, far away, alright,   Lindsey Brown ** 02:39 put a little, a little age on me. My mom is from Germany. My dad is from Costa Rica. He became a citizen and came over with his family and lived in New York, joined the Air Force. They got together, and I was born in the UK. But   Michael Hingson ** 02:56 were you on a military base or something because you don't have UK citizenship? You indicate,   Lindsey Brown ** 03:01 no, I have German citizenship, German music, German and   Michael Hingson ** 03:05 American. But you were born in England, but don't have UK citizenship?   Lindsey Brown ** 03:09 No, I, from what I gathered from my parents before it was at one point, everybody was trying to, like, immigrate into the UK. And so therefore it was kind of like, you can't just have a child here and then become a citizen. I do have a right to be a citizen of Germany, so I've always wanted to hold on to that heritage. Well, yeah, we didn't live, actually, on base. That was one of my parents saying they never wanted us to live on base. So I actually, when I was younger, I understood that my dad worked for the Air Force. I had no context that that was part of the US and the US government and the military. I was like, Oh, he does this. He works on planes, and he leaves, he goes away for a bit, and then he comes back.   Michael Hingson ** 03:55 Yeah, go ahead.   Lindsey Brown ** 03:57 So then we came over to the states. We ended up settling in Virginia. I went to school in at Great Bridge. I went all the way into high school, and then I went to college at ODU. I always said I did. I created their online version. Originally, I said, I told my parents, I'm going to be a pharmacist. So I started doing my undergrad, became a pharmacist tech, started working at Rite Aid, and then I realized it just wasn't my passion. And so then I came to them, and I said, You know what? I think I want to work in fashion. That's my calling. And I want to, I want to model. And as any immigrant parents, they looked at me and said, you're going to do what? And my dad was like, Okay, sure. My mom said you will finish school. And I got signed to a local modeling agency in Virginia. And then about a year later, I had this grand idea to get signed. I said, if I'm going to model, I'm going to I'm going to get signed by like, a big agency. So I could really do this. And so I put in a piece of paper, and I wrote down all the modeling agencies that had a plus size board in the US. And I told my mom, if everybody tells me now, I will let it go. So we go to New York. I go to Wilhelmina. That was the first one I went to. They immediately told me, No. I made my mom walk down Seventh Avenue. She'll never let me forget it, because I thought Seventh Avenue was really short. It is not I want to say we probably worked walk for a good 20 minutes, and I went to msa models, and I had met one of the casting agents at an event in Orlando. And I will admit I lied, and I I said, I have an appointment with Anthony. And they said, Oh, okay. And I met with Anthony, and he said, Oh, I remember you and I got signed that day.   Michael Hingson ** 06:05 Well, that didn't totally please your mom, or did it?   Lindsey Brown ** 06:11 My mom has always been supportive, like she's kind of like, if you want to do it, have a plan and I'll support you. So the agreement was, you're going to go to school still. And a lot of my teachers are great. I would explain to them in the beginning of, you know, school or class, I would say, you know, hey, I have a full time job. I work out of New York. I work as a model. And most of them said, Oh, that's really cool. You know, will work with you on your assignments, or sometimes I would have to take a test early, and then I think I only had one professor ever say to me, like, you do what? I don't think he believed me. So I said, you know, I can forward you every email I get from my agent. Because who, who we if I was just going to skip school, I that wouldn't be my lie, like I could make up something a lot easier than I'm going to New York and I'm going to a casting or I'm shooting, and within two weeks, he said, Okay, you were telling the truth on that. Like I I've never heard of that before. Um, and I modeled all the finished school, and I modeled until full time, until, I want to say I was 25 ish, and then wanted to one. It was the industry always changes, right? So you were kind of looked at as a mannequin. Necessarily. You're you don't have kind of autonomy of your career. What if you a size 10 is in, like, kind of in, in, right? Then that's what you're doing. If you're a size 12, you're kind of morphing yourself, trying to be a part of this industry. And I realized at one point it I may not have a full time career of this. Maybe I should do something more of like a nine to five. So I moved back with my mom in Fredericksburg from Brooklyn. That was a little bit of, you know, life awakening, as I call it, but I was able to get a job working at a clothing store, and was a manager there. I always say, you know, you start somewhere, but you know you have transferable skills. So I was around 2526 managing like a team of like 10, and then I knew I wanted more, so I started working at the Marine Corps Community Services as a buyer in menswear. So for people who've never been on a military base, there's something I call like a big mall. So if you put, like a Macy's together, a Home Depot, a Best Buy that's worked on every military base around the world, and I worked for the Marine Corps, so and I bought men's clothing, and then I switched over to shoes. So I bought, I always tell people it's the most fashionable job you can have in the military. I bought Steve Madden, Dolce Vita, like fun, trendy shoes. So I'm telling people like the the new trend this, you know, this year's plaid has nothing to do with military boots or anything.   Michael Hingson ** 09:09 And so go ahead. No, go ahead.   Lindsey Brown ** 09:14 And then, of course, I think that's where I started my as I call it, splash culture, right? Because I was still doing modeling jobs. So some people would know me as the model, some people would know me as a buyer. And I really got interested at the intersection of marketing and social media, and so I started going back to school, getting my MBA in international marketing.   Michael Hingson ** 09:38 What did you actually get your BA in? What did that end up being?   Lindsey Brown ** 09:41 Business Administration, okay, minor in fashion, because my parents weren't into the idea of me doing a whole degree in fashion.   Michael Hingson ** 09:52 Little compromise never hurt, right? It's   Lindsey Brown ** 09:54 a compromise, right? So, like, I was like, you know, what a minor, A minor, we can do that. Um. And and so then I started, I realized that, again, my passion wasn't being a buyer, a buyer in fashion. It sounds like you're going to be at these fashion shows and it's going to be fun, and it's not saying it's not fun, but it's more so you're doing you're in Excel sheets all day long. And I was more interested in the marketing of you know how to get people to buy these products, not just purchasing the product, right? So I went to school, started working and getting my MBA, and then knew that if I want to switch over to marketing, well, who would hire me? Because I don't have a background in marketing at all. So that was when the influencer on Instagram kind of career was kind of taking off. So I said, Well, if I can create my own social media following, then at least maybe I can work with other brands, and I could use that to build a portfolio so I can get, as I call it, quote, unquote, a proper nine to five. So that actually worked. I would never call myself a full time influencer, but I was able to work with different brands and then build out a portfolio. And when I got to graduate from my MBA, it was December of 2019, and I was super excited, because then I got a job for a travel company, and I love to travel, so I just thought to my this is perfect. I have my MBA. At that point, I was living in Woodbridge, Virginia, and I knew that I wanted to live in DC for a while before I found another place to live. And then the pandemic happened, and having a travel job in the pandemic is not great, like wrong move,   Michael Hingson ** 11:53 but you didn't know it at the time. Had no   Lindsey Brown ** 11:56 idea. And so the company, I was there for maybe five months before obviously they had to do layoffs, and I worked freelance for a while of that. And then I always say the universe brings you where you need to be. And that's when I started working at Nami as their social media manager. And Nami is the national line to mental illness, so it is the largest nonprofit that works to a racial stigma surrounding mental illness and mental health and gives people in their communities actually supporting services.   Michael Hingson ** 12:33 Again, not something that you had planned on doing, necessarily at all.   Lindsey Brown ** 12:38 No, but I love the idea of community. And little did I know that, necessarily, in in the world, as during the pandemic, a lot of people were dealing with anxiety and depression, and also we talked, you know, we can talk about it now, burnout, yeah, in the mix, 2019, I was burnt out and didn't know it. I was also experiencing anxiety and didn't have the word for it. So I would just say, like, I'm just overwhelmed. So I always say, I came to Nami and I learned a vocabulary, a vocabulary list, right? And I can say, Oh, this is my anxiety peeking out here, connecting with the community. And I can see the beautiful part about my job is that a lot of times, let's say, when I was a buyer, you're not seeing how somebody purchasing a product changes their day. But on the back end of being working as the head of social media, I see people's comments where they're saying, you know, this post saved my my life, or this really helped, you know, my child learn about the depression they're experiencing. It makes the work worthwhile,   Michael Hingson ** 13:49 right? So, how so Nami and being well, I was going to say Nami is certainly a whole lot different than what you've done, but at the same time being the social media person that's really getting into more of, in a sense, the marketing that that you already had some familiarity with,   Lindsey Brown ** 14:10 right? Exactly? So it's kind of like having a career passion of saying, I I'm good at social media, I'm good at the marketing part, and then finding the intersection of what actually gels with me. And for me, it's really about helping find people, find their community. And what I always used to say is like, I'm trying to just, you know, preserve my peace, which is also kind of like preserving your mental health. So I'm helping people, in my version of it protect their mental health. Learn about mental health. Don't feel scared about actually saying like, Hey, I'm experiencing X, Y and Z. Finding support. The amazing thing about Nami, there's it's federated model, so there's over 600 affiliates nationwide. So if you want to learn about mental health, that you're looking for support. Education family member is there's an affiliate close by, and I'm helping with my passion of marketing, bring people to health and care.   Michael Hingson ** 15:10 And for you personally, with the pandemic hitting and so on, what made you realize that you were experiencing burnout, and kind of, how did it manifest itself?   Lindsey Brown ** 15:26 For me? I was I always felt like I had to be doing something. I realized I couldn't relax unless somebody around, like, you know how people say, like, Oh, I'm going to Netflix. You chill all day long. I can do that if somebody else was in the room, because we're doing it together. But I didn't know how to relax by myself. But I also felt overwhelmed, and I would want to sleep, and then just feeling almost always, I say like the rabbit hole effect, where, if I have five minutes apiece, then my brain is going like, what about this, what about that, what about this, what about that. But the other part of me says, Are we supposed to be relaxing right now? And I couldn't. And so coming into Nami, I can say that the company overall is really supportive of employees talking about their mental health and, you know, resources. So it helped me finding other people who were experiencing the same thing, but also I'm researching these topics to talk about on social media. So it got me to actually do a lot of the work that I probably wouldn't have done alone.   Michael Hingson ** 16:35 So what have you learned from all of that   Lindsey Brown ** 16:38 everybody needs a mental health toolkit, and I say it the version of, you know, it can't for me. I can say it helps with if I'm eating right, am I hydrated? Am I getting enough sleep? Working out? I learned funny enough. I learned that I was doing an IG live, or assisting with an IG live, between our chief medical officer, doctor Ken, and one of our ambassadors. And they were talking, and they said, you know, oh, there's, you know, study, if you do, like, 10 minutes of workout a day, you know, it can help with your anxiety. And I was like, huh, that kind of does make sense, because when I work out or go for a walk, I do feel better. Who would know? Who knew that? But I learned that on that IG life, right? Having a vocabulary word for it actually really helped. Instead of saying, I'm feeling overwhelmed, I feel tired. Those are maybe symptoms, but that's actually not what I'm experiencing. I'm experiencing anxiety. So being able to, you know, talk with, you know, I called my community so my friend, family and friends, if they're like, hey, you've seen a little bit off. My anxiety is kind of a little I can say that my anxiety is kind of off today. And then also, for some people, you know, I have gone to therapy before, I feel like maybe, you know, it's always good to have a consistent therapist. But I tell people, you know, there's no harm in going to see a therapist if you need to be on medication for it, but everybody kind of needs to find what works for them to as I call it, keep to protect your peace.   Michael Hingson ** 18:11 So does that? Are you suggesting that most people should, in one way or another, have a therapist, or at least they need to be thinking about their mental health. That isn't necessarily a therapist, but they need to be understanding it and studying it. I   Lindsey Brown ** 18:27 think everybody should be intrigued and learned about learn about their mental health just like you have your physical health. So you may go to a doctor, or, let's say, if you tripped and you sprained your ankle, right, you would probably go get that checked out, or you would wrap it same thing with your mental health, necessarily. Hey, I feel a little bit off. You know your body intuitively. So if something feels off, and it's not maybe your physical health, or it could be your mental health, maybe you're not getting enough sleep. Maybe it's these different aspects. Maybe you're experiencing trauma for the first time, different things that are happening. It could be your physical or your mental but you need to care about both of them.   Michael Hingson ** 19:08 How do we get people to talk more about the idea of mental health? And you know, there's so many aspects of that. I know that a few years ago, when we were talking about in as a society, the whole concept of of end of life and people passing and making arrangements and so on. And there were, and are a number of people who poopoo that, but it is also part of mental health. But in general, how do we get people to talk about and accept that it's okay to talk about mental health?   Lindsey Brown ** 19:38 The silver lining of the pandemic was that people started talking about it. It was the first time, collectively, we're all in the house experiencing maybe emotions or feelings that we haven't before. And the world learned like, oh, that's anxiety, that's depression, and let's talk about it. The biggest thing is actually, for people. Hope to get comfortable talking about it. Mm, hmm, there was a culture prior that, you know, oh, that's something we talk about in the house. We keep it with our family. We don't discuss it. And that's not how you get people to care. Is to, you know, hide your secrets and keep you sick, right? So talking about it just how me and you were having a conversation today, and somebody could listen to it and say, like, Oh, I feel comfortable. That's what I've been experiencing too. Where can I get help? Maybe I should have a mental health toolkit. I never thought about that before. Maybe I should check out my local Nami. It's taking away those barriers and actually accepting people, and especially when people are talking about it, not to shame them. Yeah, to actually, you know, lead with empathy and learn more about it.   Michael Hingson ** 20:45 And again, talking about it doesn't mean you go up to everybody on the street and you say, I want to talk about mental health, but it is, it is also being a little bit strategic, but still doing it, and having a plan to really address mental health. And it makes perfect sense to do? Mm,   Lindsey Brown ** 21:01 hmm, absolutely. I mean, it's not like if you went to the doctor and you got, I don't know, a bad, you know, physical. You're not going to run up to everybody and say, hey, my physical results were horrible today. Like you're not doing that. But you pick and choose who is your community and who you feel safe to talk to about it.   Michael Hingson ** 21:19 Yeah. Yeah. And it gets back to your community and and you, you need to develop, I think everyone needs to develop a cadre of some sort of of people who they can talk to. And all too often, we don't. We think it's all us. We're, we're totally independent. We don't need to to have or involve anyone else. And I am really a great fan of something that Gandhi once said, which is interdependence is and ought to be as much the ideal of man as a self sufficiency. You know, we're not always self sufficient by ourselves right   Lindsey Brown ** 22:00 No, I totally believe that. I used to feel at one point that I could do everything and I and I can learn from people, but I don't like to ask for help, right? And I learned that doesn't work. I said to my friends, I don't want to be the strong friend anymore. I need help. I need I want support, and I don't want to just reach out when everything is in shambles or I feel like I can't manage it anymore. Sometimes it just helps to talk. I mean, sometimes I call my mom or a friend and I say, like, can I vent? Do you have time? Because y'all see you want to check before you just unload on people. But hey, can I? Can I talk to you about this? Because I am having a day,   Michael Hingson ** 22:46 yeah, what if, if there is a specific thing, what really turned your attitude and your idea around to the point where you started to believe in the whole idea of talking and communicating and recognizing that it isn't, you know you you're not. No one does everything, just totally on their own.   Lindsey Brown ** 23:06 I can say part of it happened during the pandemic where I went through being laid off, and that was the first time I can say that I was questioning and my, I guess, to say my sources of income kind of dried up, right? Because we're in the pandemic, and we all didn't think we could go outside. I was worried, but then I also felt shame around it. And I was talking to two of my close friends, and they reminded there's no shame in you losing your job. And one of my friends sent me, and I think it was like an Uber Eats, like gift card. Like, she was like, buy yourself a good meal tonight. I love you. And even though it's not like I had money to pay for my dinner, but it was that small act of Yeah, them, letting me know it's okay and not to feel shame. And then that again, just checking in on each other. And I was like, I feel better. I feel like I can do this. And necessarily, I didn't need someone to help me apply for jobs, but maybe needed that community support of like, you got this,   Michael Hingson ** 24:11 you got this, and we got you, yeah, and, and that's important, and we we shouldn't shun that and we shouldn't try to throw that away. Well, no, I don't need you to have me. I got me and because it's all about again, community, right?   Lindsey Brown ** 24:30 Yeah, for sure. I mean, I always you don't have to do this thing called life alone and where you may feel that something is happening in your life where you can feel shame, or you feel like I am alone, there is probably someone out there who has gone through it or going through it, and they can help you, or they have advice or tips, or, Hey, this worked for me. You should try this. Well, you would never know if you didn't start the conversation right. Or.   Michael Hingson ** 24:59 It might be that you end up helping them because you enter into that same conversation, and it may very well help you, but it also helps them exactly. And there's again, nothing wrong with that well, so you you work at Nami. Is that a nine to five job? Nine to five? Yep, there you go, so what do you do between five and night and nine the next day?   Lindsey Brown ** 25:26 Well, I still model. So if a good I say, job comes by, I will still model. So I mean, there's been times where somebody says, Isn't that you? And I'm like, I that is me. Because you never know where things will get released, the world we posted. I'm like, yep, that is me. I work with local businesses in the DC area to teach them, actually, about social media marketing. It's the one thing that, if I have this knowledge, and a lot of times a small business, or, you know, a solo entrepreneur, they don't always have time to learn the nuances of social media and marketing and how it can better them. So part of it, of I feel like giving back, is, you know, explaining that to them as well. And also I take on different brand trips necessarily. I just went to curl fest, which is a big festival in New York that happens. I think last year's like 30,000 people there. So that's where I say slash culture. So it is. I don't just consider myself the Social Media Manager of Nami. I do other things as well. I don't think you have to be one thing only.   Michael Hingson ** 26:36 So you you have several careers going at the same time. What do you think about that? Because I know there are a lot of people who would say, I can't do more than one at a time, and you clearly love to do several.   Lindsey Brown ** 26:53 Yeah, I do, um, I feel like it kind of changes with life, right? So there are times when I take on more freelance opportunities, and there are times when I, you know, cut back on them. I feel like you have to do a work to work well. For you, I don't tell people, Hey, I'm doing this, and you should do it too, right? If you are working a full time job and you're fulfilled by that in life, do that and be happy about it. There's something about saying working your job and going home and doing whatever makes you feel happy, right? So for me, it could be that, hey, I've, I'm working, you know, for NAMI during the day, and, oh, well, I have a photo shoot that I'm going to, you know, go to that night, necessarily, or I might be taking a phone call and meeting with, you know, a local business to talk to them through their social media plan. It's not like I'm consistently every single day from, you know, five to nine, then working on a freelance opportunity, right?   Michael Hingson ** 27:48 So it works out well with NAMI and we have the, I assume that sometimes you may have a photo shoot or something that comes up during the day.   Lindsey Brown ** 27:56 I think you always have to have your priorities, right? So Nami is my priority. I would never, I mean, it's my full time job, right? So I would never take an opportunity and say, like, well, Nami will be okay, right? That that's not the way you, you know, you run a business, and I look at it that I have to make sure the main position is, you know, fulfilled and done well. And if I can take maybe a sick day or take a personal day and explain, yeah, that was what I was getting at, right? Yeah, there's, there's open communication. You don't just necessarily call in and say, like, Hey guys, I'm out today. I have a photo, right? That's disrespectful, and you're not setting up your team for success. So it's planning it out well and choosing your opportunities that you can lean in on.   Michael Hingson ** 28:36 And I'll bet the other part about that is that the NAMI folks are pretty proud of you for all the things that you're accomplishing.   Lindsey Brown ** 28:44 I would know. I think they are. I mean, everybody's really been always very supportive. I think the beautiful part about, you know, taking on other freelance marketing clients is what you may learn in another industry will actually maybe work and bring it into the NAMI community to say, you know, hey, we haven't thought about this in marketing. Oh, we should try this on social media, right? So it's kind of taking those transferable skills and bringing them into your different opportunities.   Michael Hingson ** 29:09 What would you say to someone else who might want to add another career or explore doing more than one thing in their career path and adding something else to their title.   Lindsey Brown ** 29:24 Do it. There is not. Do not wait. You know, it's why not? Why wait in your life to say, I wish I would have done this. I wish I would have tried that. Try it now. It doesn't mean maybe that will come out to be something you're getting paid for. Could be a hobby, right? And that you may get paid for it every once in a while. But I would say, take the opportunity. If you have a full time job, make sure that you are still fulfilling your full time job needs. Your bills need to be paid, and you should be respectful of the people that are hiring you to do so. But I would say always take the opportunity you don't know. Or they'll, you know, they'll lead you to,   Michael Hingson ** 30:01 yeah, I think you said it best when you said you also do need to recognize and keep your priorities. And if you have a full time job, and you've made that commitment, then, unless there's some reason to change whether that's your full time job or not, then it's a matter of keeping your priorities straight, too exactly,   Lindsey Brown ** 30:20 and then also personally, right? You don't want to experience burnout, so you don't want to take on too many opportunities at one time, and that becomes your norm. And then you experience burnout, because your freelance opportunities should be something that also fulfills you. So if every day you're burning yourself out and you're burning you know the families at two ends, well, your mental health and your physical health are a wreck. Then yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 30:45 and that gets back to burnout and stress and anxiety. Yes,   Lindsey Brown ** 30:49 and that is something I am I try to manage. And there are sometimes when I look at opportunities, no. And no is a great word, and it's fine to have boundaries. Yeah?   Michael Hingson ** 31:04 Tell me a little about Nami, exactly what it does, how it works, and so on.   Lindsey Brown ** 31:09 Yeah, Nami is, like, I said, it's a federated model. So there are over 600 like affiliates around the country, and it's really a place where I say it's all about community. It's people, where people can get, you know, resources, education, support groups and to help people, one to learn about mental health conditions, learn about mental illness, maybe get help. But it's also for people to meet people who are experiencing the same things they are. It's peer led. So instead of, you know, if you go to a doctor and they say, like, well, this is the five things about depression, you should know that's great. But hey, I have depression and I'm a mom, how do I actually deal with, you know, having a full time job and having, you know, kids? How do I deal with that? Well, you would feel much better if you met another mom who's experiencing the same thing, who could give you advice as well? So you're going to support group, necessarily, it's a beautiful thing that there are so many affiliates, because help is close, it's not far away, and it's free.   Michael Hingson ** 32:15 So, so there are support groups, and I assume that happens, there are affiliate meetings,   Lindsey Brown ** 32:24 yes, so everybody would have their own schedule and again. So the lining of the pandemic, a lot of things that were only in person now are so online. So a lot of times, affiliates will have these meetings, and necessarily, the programs and the resources also online for people to, you know, have an easier method of, you know, reaching out and getting the help. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 32:45 How do you respond to the people who say, Well, yeah, the pandemic is is over, and we really need to get back to normal and get back to just being in the office, and this hybrid stuff is ridiculous, and too much zoom, weariness and and all that.   Lindsey Brown ** 33:04 I say as I mean, I'm not a CEO, but I think it opened the conversation, right? Because what it what is normal? Who set that standard, right? So let's have the conversation, is most of the staff happy to be in the office? Then make the opportunity to be in office is hybrid. Give people options remote. That works too. It also opens up your playing field of necessarily bringing in different types of employee, because you may have someone who could be amazing at this one job, but they're not local. Can they do the job remote? I think it's everybody saying the pandemic is over. Well, one, covid is still a thing. It's not going anywhere. I think we just know how to manage it better. But I think it shook up the world to talk about what is quote, unquote normal. Does it need to be the standard anymore?   Michael Hingson ** 33:55 Yeah, well, covid clearly isn't going away, and while we're managing it, at least for the moment, we're not getting any major new version of it or strain that is taking us back to where we were in 2020 and 2021, but it's still here, and it is something that we all should be aware of exactly.   Lindsey Brown ** 34:23 So, I mean, I let's have the conversation for people who say, you know, we no one should work remote anymore. Well, that's great. Well, find a position or company that is fully in the office, because there could be another company that says, hey, we're fully remote, and they'll attract, you know, employees that love being fully remote.   Michael Hingson ** 34:45 Yeah, there's room for all of it. And my perception, personally is that there is a lot of merit for the hybrid concept. But even then, hybrid is. Something that we each ought to have some some control over. But there is value in being in the office for a lot of people, at least part of the time. But I think people are realizing more and more about this whole idea that working remote, or being able to do things at home, and then also being able to address other issues in your life is a very important thing, but it also does get back to what you talked about before, with priorities. I was talking with someone yesterday on another episode, and he was talking to me about someone who he was working with as a coach who worked remote all the time, and this woman who he was talking with said, you know, I don't have time to do the laundry or anything like that. I got to always do my job, and you're working remote. What do you mean? You don't have the time. We've gotta really work a little bit more. All of us do it. Putting things in perspective,   Lindsey Brown ** 36:09 for sure, I there's when the pandemic happened, right? And we were working at home. You do realize, oh, I have necessarily, I can throw this, you know, in the washing machine really quick I can, you know, empty up my dishwasher. The reality of the of the matter is, though, if you're working a nine to five, or even if you're an entrepreneur, I do believe in setting boundaries. So when I'm working my nine to five, I'm working my nine to five, typically I'm not, you know, then also folding my laundry where I'm running a meeting, or, you know, going out to the grocery store in the middle of my workday. Now, if you choose to do it during your lunch, and your team is flexible that way, have at it. For me, I like to I learned that multitasking sometimes leads me to make more mistakes that I'm that I would be like, well, if I was focused on this, I wouldn't have missed that. So I try to, when we're working, we're locked in and we're working, and when you take breaks, or you're on lunch break, then you can do all those extra little things. But it's not a place where, hey, I'm laying in bed and the blankets over my head, and I'm kind of, you know, watching TV and I'm in a meeting at the same time. I can't function that way. Yeah, but I always say for everybody, you have to find what works for you.   Michael Hingson ** 37:28 Well, I think that there is a lot of merit to when you're working, you're working, and I think that's probably really true for most people, but we do need to really plan our day, or plan what we're doing. And again, it gets back to priority. I can be in some meetings where I'm not leading the meeting and maybe mostly just a listener, and I can actually stand up and go out and feed a dog if it's at the right time, because my guide dog, Alamo, is pretty insistent on when he wants to eat. But I can do both because I have a wireless headset and I'm not looking at the screen right. And so I can do that and still participate if there's a need to. But I also recognize sort of like, well, when doing a podcast episode like this, the last thing I can do is get up and go do anything else for a variety of reasons. That doesn't work, but the big reason it doesn't work is because it is my job and it is what I'm supposed to do, to focus on doing this and doing it right, and doing it well.   Lindsey Brown ** 38:33 Exactly. One thing I noticed too, is that before the pandemic, we used to do phone calls. Do you remember that?   Michael Hingson ** 38:41 I've heard of that   Lindsey Brown ** 38:44 the phone and now everything has to be a zoom call, and everybody's on camera. And what I love about Nami is that we are accepting of, hey, we can have a meeting, but you don't have to be on camera. And every day is in a camera day, we can turn our cameras off. I started with my team officer to say, Hey, do you want to just do a phone call? We if you can't get through zoom to work, or if it's, I don't, I don't want to be on camera today. I just want to, you know, do a touch base and hang up the phone. Yeah. I was laughing with my mom before, because she loves face time, and I told her one day, I said, you know, after a day of meetings, you know, on Zoom, I actually don't want to be on camera anymore. Can we do a phone call?   Michael Hingson ** 39:32 Yeah, you know, and I'm a little different, because I don't, I don't mind being in zoom, whether the camera's on or off, but that's because I'm not really looking at it, but I realize that for some other people, it may very well be an important thing. So I like zoom here you go, because the audio is better than on a phone call. But by the same token, I have no problem with doing things on a phone again for. Me, it's the same headset that I use so I can be on a phone call or a zoom call, and either one is fine with me. So I want to do what is more comfortable for other people, but I do find often that when people talk about let's do a zoom thing, it's as much habit as a need, and there isn't necessarily the need, but it's just the habit that now that's what they do.   Lindsey Brown ** 40:25 It's the norm. Yeah, so, I mean, I always have the conversation. I have a conversation with your team, or whomever you know necessarily fits in your personal life. I think it's just talking to people and asking, What do you prefer? Do you have time today? Do you want to do a zoom call date? Do you want to do camera off? Do you want to pick up the phone? There's many ways to, you know, communicate in this world, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 40:47 and it, and it makes perfect sense. We all, we all need to recognize that change is always going to be around us. And the reality is, normal is never going to go back to the way it was after September 11 and and of course, I got out of the towers and so on, and I heard so many people say we got to get back to normal. And it took me a little while to realize what a horrible thing to say, because normal will never be the same again. And as you pointed out, who sets the standard of normal? It's it is going to be a constant change, and that's maybe the only normal there really is.   Lindsey Brown ** 41:25 I think that's the beautiful part about life, that things will necessarily change. Because where there could be a group of people saying, well, this normal works for me and it benefits me, right? But there could be another group of people who said, your standard of normal isn't helpful for for me. So it doesn't mean then we say, well, we've been doing that for 50 years. We're going to continue doing it because I don't want to make a change. No, it's then you can come to the table and work out, necessarily, what is working for people right now, and how do we uplift everyone around us?   Michael Hingson ** 41:56 I think most people who have that mindset will ultimately accept maybe there is merit for change if you can demonstrate the value of it. So we've always had our meetings in person. We do only work in the office, and so we don't ever do anything remote. And I don't want to change that, but when you really start to talk about things like we've been dealing with here today, mental health and anxiety and so on. And a number of people start to talk about how they feel when they're able to spend part of their time working at home, and what that offers. And if you can show things like it actually makes us more productive. Most people, I think, ultimately, can be convinced to try something different.   Lindsey Brown ** 42:50 If you space to be open minded, if you look at it sometimes in, I would say, in the corporate world, right before it was you have to be in the office. And a lot of times you were in the office and you were taking maybe, let's say, five meetings a day. Well, you're not really talking to anybody, communicating only the people you were talking to on the phone. Well, what's the difference if I was in the office with my door closed, or if I was at home on my couch talk, having those same meetings? If, yeah, if you can do the job that you were hired for then everybody should be allowed to have accommodation.   Michael Hingson ** 43:25 Well, the other part about being at home and having your meeting on your couch is, what other opportunities does it open for you and again, how does that make you feel when you don't have to drive that hour to work every day, or whatever. One of the things I've read in I think the New York Times a couple of months ago was about how, in reality, while we're moving things faster than we ever did, the fact is, it takes us longer to get things done, like it takes us longer to get to work because the roads are so crowded, or if I'm going to travel somewhere, it takes longer to get to the airport, and all of the efforts of getting through security and so on, all take so much longer that you really have to be at the airport earlier in order just to get Your flight, because everything takes so much longer, and that introduces anxiety and stress.   Lindsey Brown ** 44:25 Mm, hmm, for sure, I know a ton of people who are so happy they can work from home just for the fact that they don't have to commute. For me, my commute in the morning to the NAMI headquarter office is it probably about 20 minutes, but coming back into DC, it takes me at least an hour, and that which you know that I we have that option to go into office, we can work from home. And I like having that flexibility, because doing that drive every day would feel overwhelming,   Michael Hingson ** 44:57 yeah, if you had to do. That now I remember my father worked at Edwards Air Force Base, which was about 40 miles from where we lived in Palmdale, California, and he drove there every day. But one of the things that he talked about more than once was how he could go out of our driveway, go down to the end of the street, make a left turn and travel 40 miles and never stop once, because it was at the time of the day, there wasn't a lot of traffic, and he would go all the way to the gate at Edwards and never have to stop. And he was comfortable with that. We also both became ham radio operators, and so he had a lot of fun while he was driving, talking to me on the radio and to other people, which is another thing that he enjoyed doing, but he found that it was not overly stressful, or he didn't allow himself to become stressed over it because he could travel and keep moving, and felt good about that.   Lindsey Brown ** 46:05 Mm hmm. Not having the traffic is definitely a game changer. I've tried to when I I know that if I'm, let's say, commuting, or I'm driving a long distance, I usually call, you know, either my mom or my dad. I call it my check in hour, or listening to a good podcast. So you're not focusing on the negative of I'm in the car. It's, you know, it's an hour, it's, there's traffic, there's so much going on. But having something that either brings you joy or listening to and talking to somebody or listening to good music, it puts you in a good headspace,   Michael Hingson ** 46:43 or also, just plain taking your mind off of things and giving you the opportunity to to rest your brain. It is something that I hear so many people say I don't have time to spend every day thinking about what happened today. I'm I've got to go until I go to sleep, and then just go to sleep. And we don't do a lot, or a lot of people don't do a lot to rest their brain or allow their brain to suggest to them how they might be better or do better or accomplish things because they're too busy trying to control their brain, which has a different thought and a different direction it wants to go.   Lindsey Brown ** 47:30 Yeah, I become an advocate of mental health days. You don't need to be sick or too extreme burnout to then take a break. It is fine to schedule a mental health day and not do anything. And like I said before, before, pre pandemic, I didn't believe in that. I had too much going on and I didn't think I could take the time. Now, I can easily say to somebody, you know, oh, I have something going on that day. What are you doing? Nothing. Yeah, and I feel great about doing nothing, nothing.   Michael Hingson ** 48:04 I have generally been keeping busy during the week. My wife passed away in November of 2022, so now it's just me, but I've become more of an advocate of for me, and I realize that it is me not doing anything on the weekends, reading books and other things like that, and I get so charged for the for the week ahead, and I also get many ideas and thoughts that I might never have gotten simply because I give me and My brain the chance to recharge and to rest and to work together, to think about what's going to happen next.   Lindsey Brown ** 48:46 Yeah, there's part of culture. Remember hustle culture, I'm going to work until I die. That is, I thought about it before, and I said that is a horrible way to live your life. That means you have lived in a state of burnout, and you never got to enjoy anything.   Michael Hingson ** 49:04 And you will die,   Lindsey Brown ** 49:06 and then, and then you will, you know, take that other section of, you know, the afterlife, but we don't know what that is. So I mean, you have one life, enjoy it, have make time for, you know, your friends and your family. And that's where you asked me about being a multi hyphenate of well, how do you do that? That saying no, not overwhelming yourself. Every opportunity can be a great opportunity, but it's okay to say no to them.   Michael Hingson ** 49:33 How do you help teach people, or does Nami help teach people to say no and get out of that old mindset. Yes,   Lindsey Brown ** 49:42 the support groups they have are a great place where people who maybe have gone through the same experiences, and that's necessarily, maybe mental health, mental illness, but also, I always say, there's life lessons with with everything. So I mean, I've learned from working at Nami, but then also listening. Your friends and everything. So no, is a full sentence. You don't have to give a person a reason why. You don't have to tell your maybe your employer, hey, I'm taking the day off because I feel overwhelmed and I haven't I'm taking the day. You earn the time off. Take the day, right? Telling your friends and family, no, I can't do that necessarily. Or there are times in you know, I'll have a super long day, and maybe, you know, my dad might call me and I'll text him back to say, Hey, is everything okay? And if he says, Hey, I gotta talk to them, you know, I definitely call him back. But there are times when he says, Hey, I was just checking in, and I can easily say, Hey, I'm just tired from the day. Can I call you tomorrow? Everything's fine on my end, but I'm I'm just mentally done today, and that's okay. We we're all allowed to set boundaries to AKA, protect our peace and our mental health.   Michael Hingson ** 50:57 You know, it's not to well, it is sort of related to mental health and so on, but we seem to, in general, have lost a lot of the art of conversation, and so many people won't talk about one thing or another the way, maybe even we used to. How do we get back to being more willing and open just to talk   Lindsey Brown ** 51:19 time, taking the time, right? It's the and it's funny, because I work in social media, so everything's really quick, but even then, taking the time, making time to have conversations. If you ask somebody how they're doing, actually stop and listen, right? Because a lot of times you Hey, how you doing, and you really didn't want to hear how they were doing. You just said it, because that's a nice thing to do. Take a moment, right? Because you would want someone to take a moment for you.   Michael Hingson ** 51:48 Yeah. Then the fact of the matter is that having lost the art of conversation, and I think there's so many articles and things I've read that say that, I think even more than losing the art of conversation is we've lost the art and the skill of listening. We don't want we don't want to hear. Our boundary is we don't want to hear, well, that's not productive either.   Lindsey Brown ** 52:14 Yes. And there is I joke with my parents now, and I tell them, You know what, you were, right? And they and they'll laugh, but those moments where I didn't want to listen, and I know exactly what I'm talking about, because you're from a different generation, and I know better now, I didn't say all that to them, but I thought it, yeah, and then I turn around, Oh, you were right. Hello. And they're like, Yeah, we, we've lived a little longer than you. You should listen, and it's that place where you learn a lot more if you listen.   Michael Hingson ** 52:51 Yeah, we, we don't do it nearly enough. Um, I know I've learned from working with eight guide dogs. And when you work with a guide dog, the dog's job is to make sure that I walk safely. It's my job to know where to go and how to get there. But it's fascinating working with a dog and developing a true, real teaming relationship, because we each have a job to do in the relationship, and the jobs go better when we respect each other's jobs, and especially from my perspective as the team leader, when I listen to my colleague on the team and dogs do communicate. They may not communicate the same way we do, but my job is to learn how they communicate and learn to understand what they want and what they're saying, and recognize that they've not only got feelings too, but it's amazing the information that they can and do in part. And so for me, having that kind of a relationship has become extremely important, and I wouldn't have it any other way.   Lindsey Brown ** 54:04 You know, it's funny, I have a fiance, and ever since we met, I said, I want to get a dog, and I'm still waiting on that note where you can get a dog.   Michael Hingson ** 54:15 Is your fiance sort of not as prone to want to do that or what   Lindsey Brown ** 54:19 he is team. We can get a dog when we have a child that can walk, the dog's going to be a while.   Michael Hingson ** 54:30 Well, the issue, again, is having a dog is is all about really building a relationship. And again, it's a team relationship. And I don't know that I would suggest waiting until you have a child who can walk the dog, because it isn't going to work as well if you haven't really learned to communicate with the dog first, because you have to learn that whoever you are before you can teach a child how to do it, then that's the point. Is. It's. If you're just talking about walking the dog, if you're going to truly have a relationship with a dog, it's a whole lot different than that, because it is every bit as much a teaming relationship, every bit as much a mutually rewarding relationship, to have a dog if you do it right as it is to have a fiance or a child or both, and most people don't really recognize that, oh, the dog will love the dog, and the dog loves us, and we'll walk the dog. There's a whole lot more to it, if you want to really do it, right?   Lindsey Brown ** 55:36 Yeah, and it's all about relationships, right? So kind of how you were talking about earlier, how do we stop and communicate? How do we stop and listen? It's a place that I've gotten to where maybe it was a light bulb, right, where I was like, Oh, this is all about relationship and how people feel and how they feel when they're actually talking to me and communicating. And that's at, you know, extra work in your home life, necessarily, and to be open to having those conversations and not just trying to have everything go your way. But listen to the why behind, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 56:13 yeah. And the why behind is like with a dog, just as much. Why? What is the dog saying and why? Because they're they're talking all the time, and it doesn't necessarily mean with a bark, right? But, but they're talking, so we need to have a conversation with your fiance. That's all.   Lindsey Brown ** 56:34 We'll set up another meeting. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 56:36 well, we should do that. So do you think that in the world, we're getting better, really, at talking about mental health. Or have we, have we made significant progress, or a little bit of progress? I think we have,   Lindsey Brown ** 56:52 um, even in my friend group, necessarily, or even with my dad, necessarily, he said to me before, and my dad is culturally Costa Ricans, you know, aren't going to talk about their feelings and necessarily, you know what traumas maybe they had. And he said to me for he said, Well, maybe I experienced a little bit of anxiety, and in my mind, I said, Well, you think, but it's that place when you hear somebody else talking about it, it opens you up to think about, huh? Not a me too situation, right? But it's maybe I, maybe I am experiencing that, or because one in five people experiencing mental health condition, right? So if it's not you, it's somebody that you know, and it's not saying, then you have to raise your hand and say, Well, I I experienced depression, or I have anxiety, me too. No, but it's a place that you know how to support that person. You know how to listen to maybe what their plight is, and your friend who may experience depression, and you're like, I don't know how to help them. I just see them in bed being sick, right? But no, actually, hey, well, how can I actually be a support system to you? Obviously, I may not understand, but I can give you empathy. I can be here for you. I think the pandemic definitely changed that conversation, and more people are open to it. And   Michael Hingson ** 58:10 you think that's going to continue? I   Lindsey Brown ** 58:14 do think it's going to continue. It's something that you can't turn off, necessarily. It's the same place where you talk about the intersection of culture and identity in America, necessarily, the conversation is there. It's not going to be turned off. We're going to continue to have the conversation, and we're going to change people's lives that way by having these conversations. Got it.   Michael Hingson ** 58:36 How do you protect or how does one protect their mental health?   Lindsey Brown ** 58:42 I mean, I go back to having your mental health toolkit, your self care toolkit, of what makes you feel good inside, what brings you back to peace, what makes you feel good, and you know in yourself when you're like, uh, if I do my five minute meditation in the morning, or I have my cup of coffee in the morning or at night I do my skincare routine. What brings you back to peace is a big thing. Saying no, no, respectfully, like I wouldn't necessarily send an email to your boss and no, but necessarily having those conversations and maybe explaining your boundaries and maybe, you know, creating a better work life balance is definitely a place where people can start. It is knowing when you are feeling off, being in tune with your body and making the changes that can actually help you overall.   Michael Hingson ** 59:35 Well, here's the question for Miss social media model. How's that for a start, huh? How do you protect your mental health online? That's getting to, of course, to be a really big thing. I mean, I've, I've, we've, we've seen Congressional investigations where they bring this, the big tech people in, or the social media people in, and. And all that. But ultimately, what can we do to protect our own mental health and the mental health of those around us online? Because we're relying so much online nowadays, which I'm not sure is always as wise as it ought to be, but that's okay.   Lindsey Brown ** 1:00:18 Definitely, for me, it was learning that social media is a tool, right? So a lot of times, you feel that you're connected to social media, and it is something that you just have to be a part of. It's a tool. So necessarily following accounts that you like, what makes you feel good? You don't have to follow anyone on social media that you don't want to follow. Taking time away from social media. I know that's, you know, different for someone who's a social media manager, but if I'm spending all day on social media and I I'm overwhelmed, well, the last thing I need to do when I get off work is then to open up social media and, as I call it, Doom, scrolling or inactively participating, right? Because then I'm not even paying attention to maybe the curated post or the things that my friends are sharing. I'm just scrolling because I wanted something to do. Well, how about then putting the phone down, either finding a book, doing something that is off the phone. So when you are on social media, actively engaging, finding things that necessarily, for me, I really like to go experience things in DC, so like, find the things that I want to do in the city that I'm in, to go do things outside of my phone. Yeah, use the phone to find things to do and then go do those things. Look at how long you're online, right? Because that's a tool on most platforms. And you'd be shocked how long you spend time online, like on social media, and you're like, there's been a way I was on here for, you know, five hours. Yeah you were, yeah you were, yeah you were, and you don't realize it, because sometimes I realize with myself, you know, when you're watching, like maybe a show, or you're listening to a podcast or something, and there's that, that ad break, and then you pick for me, I would pick up my phone and I would be scrolling the ad is a minute long. Why can't I just sit there for a minute with my own thoughts? Yeah, why do I have to pick up my phone? And I realized I was doing that. So sometimes I will put my phone out of reach because I don't need my phone right then, I'm not even really looking at anything. I'm just doing it because it's a habit. Or stand up and go get a cookie. Yeah? Like, go, go do something. Like my mommy, she's they're like, Well, you can go do a jumping jack. And I'm like, Mom, I'm not going to get up and do a jumping jack now, but I guess you could, I could, and I got, she's right. I don't need to just be scrolling on my phone. Still right, definitely being noticeable of like our habits, and noticing how you feel when you are on social media. It's totally fine to take a break delete your accounts. It is fine to then unfollow people. And there's also, the cool thing is that on a lot of the platforms, either you can either hide people. So let's say you have a friend, right? And your friend is, I don't know, experiencing something that doesn't make you feel great, even though it's great in their life, you don't really want to unfollow them, because then they're like, no, what are you doing? But you can hide their stuff and they have no idea, but it makes you feel better. And then you can actually talk with them about anything else but that one thing they're going through, right? Yeah. You can actually hide keywords. So if you are triggered by certain things, you can go in your settings and turn that off so you're not seeing those things. T

Do you want to foster a culture of innovation in your organization? In this episode of Leadership Launchpad, I speak with former Air Force leader John "Dragon" Teichert about his experience driving change and empowering teams at Edwards Air Force Base. We discuss practical strategies for encouraging idea sharing, aligning incentives, and relentlessly communicating priorities to overcome bureaucratic barriers. John shares insights from his upcoming book "Boom" on creating cultural transformation in risk-averse environments. Tune in for actionable advice on enabling your teams to innovate, take smart risks, and advance your mission. Don't miss this lively discussion on cutting-edge leadership! If you wish to learn more or hear from John, check out below! Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnteichert/Visit his website: https://johnteichert.com/Buy his book, "Boom" (#1 Amazon Bestseller): https://a.co/d/hcxjB08Connect on Twitter: https://x.com/EJohnTeichertConnect on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teichert/Want more tips on effective training? Sign-up for our weekly newsletter: https://www.bettereverydaystudios.com/newsletterVisit us at https://www.bettereverydaystudios.com

UFOs are being spotted in Lancaster and Palmdale, California via Ring cameras. What's going on here? And why is California such a hotspot for UFO activity? LISTEN to our Podcasts - D/REZZED Video Game News - https://link.chtbl.com/drezzed Clownfish TV: Audio Edition - https://link.chtbl.com/ClownfishTV ➡️ Tip Jar and Fan Support: http://ClownfishSupport.com ➡️ Official Merch Store: http://ShopClownfish.com ➡️ Official Website: http://ClownfishTV.com Recent UFO sightings in California, particularly in Palmdale and Lancaster, are generating national interest and speculation about advanced government technology, potential misidentifications, and the influence of military activity. 00:00 UFO sightings in California, particularly in Palmdale and Lancaster, are trending nationally, with witnesses reporting unusual flying patterns and prompting investigations. 04:43 Mass UFO sightings in Palmdale near Edwards Air Force Base spark speculation about advanced government aircraft testing. 07:16 Recent UFO sightings in California may be misidentified drones, complicated by technology that blurs the line between genuine and edited footage. 09:15 Upcoming UFO sightings in California spark debate over their authenticity amid conspiracy theories linking them to election distractions and military tests. 11:21 Multiple UFO sightings in Lancaster and Palmdale, including five zigzagging in ten seconds, spark speculation about geographic influences and military activity. 13:31 Recent UFO sightings in California are raising questions about their authenticity, with many attributing them to drones or digital manipulation amid a growing willingness to report such phenomena. 15:23 Witnesses in California and Pennsylvania report unusual aerial activity and military aircraft, sparking UFO speculation. 17:25 Increased military activity in California coincides with recent mass UFO sightings, raising speculation about advanced technology and government secrecy surrounding unidentified aerial phenomena. Disclaimer: This series is produced by Clownfish Studios and WebReef Media, and is part of ClownfishTV.com. Opinions expressed by our contributors do not necessarily reflect the views of our guests, affiliates, sponsors, or advertisers. ClownfishTV.com is an unofficial news source and has no connection to any company that we may cover. This channel and website and the content made available through this site are for educational, entertainment and informational purposes only. These so-called “fair uses” are permitted even if the use of the work would otherwise be infringing. #Paranormal #UFOs #News #Commentary #Reaction #Podcast #Comedy #Entertainment #Hollywood #PopCulture #Tech

The title does not do Kiefer Jones justice. At the age of 32 years of age, Kiefer has already served almost ten years in the U.S. Airforce and, after leaving he continued to do the same job as a contractor. For the last part of his air Force career, he worked in Europe and continued that work din Europe during the pandemic.   In late January of 2022 Kiefer experienced a serious snowboarding accident in Austria. The result was that he had a skull that was fractured in 14 places, a traumatic brain injury, all the ribs on the right side of his body were broken, and he suffered a broken back. After being in a coma for several weeks he regained consciousness and began a long road to recovery to the amazement of his doctors. He has recovered so much that recently he ran his first 5K marathon. He attributes much of his comeback to what he calls “positive adaptability”. We spend a great deal of time discussing this concept including Kiefer giving suggestions as to why it should be important to all of us and how we can adopt our own positive adaptability mindset.   No doubt that Kiefer is an unstoppable individual by any definition. In addition to continuing to do government contract work in Virginia where he lives, he and his wife Christine, (she prefers simply Tine), own a company called Tiki designs. The company produces what the Jones' call “digital story telling”. You get to hear all about it during our episode.   Sit back, relax and be prepared to be inspired and encouraged.   About the Guest:   Kiefer Jones is a 32-year-old United States Air Force veteran originally from the small town of Decatur, Indiana.  He considers himself to be an honest, positively adaptable, and intrinsically motivated world traveler with a passion to bring ideas to life and use creativity to communicate, tell stories, resolve problems, and ignite innovation. He is currently living in Alexandria, Virginia with his wife and 2 cats after having had the unique opportunity to live and work in Europe for the last 7 years supporting the United States Air Force and the government. Almost 2 years ago, he was in a terrible snowboarding accident that put him in a coma for 7 days and left him with a broken spine, shoulder, and fractured his skull into 14 pieces which resulted in a traumatic brain injury, leaving him permanently blind in his right eye.  Despite this new challenge, he remains a passionate organizational agility leader, people and process tuner, creator, project manager, and scrum master with 10+ years of experience in the creative and information technology industries. He is also a long-time musician with a professionally produced album out on Spotify, iTunes, and the other digital music platforms. He considers himself an effective facilitator and adroit communicator with a focus on teams, value, and outcomes over outputs. Kiefer and his wife, Tine, are co-owners and digital creators for their own company, TiKi Design, where they've garnered engagement and business for viral accounts and clients resulting in over 120K new followers and generated more than 20 million new views and over 4 million new likes. They are enjoying building a new life in America.   Ways to connect with Kiefer: Here is a link to a case study I published regarding implementing scrum and kanban within the Air Force: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/us-air-force-overcome-scrum-jones-agility-leader-creative-pmp/   Our media business: https://tikidesignproductions.com/about  My LinkTree with affiliate links: https://linktr.ee/kieferjones My LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kieferjones/ Department of Defense news article from Stars and Stripes covering my road to recovery: https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2022-05-11/former-ramstein-airman-on-the-road-to-recovery-after-horrific-snowboarding-accident-in-italy-5965528.html   About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi there and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity in the unexpected meet unexpected as a whole lot more fun than inclusion and diversity. And we'll probably get to a lot of that today. Anyway, our guest is Kiefer Jones Kiefer is 32 years old. So his bio says he was in the Air Force. He's faced some physical challenges along the way. I think it was all just to get attention, but he can tell us about it. I know that was no fun wasn't Kiefer. But anyway, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Kiefer Jone ** 01:58 Thank you, Michael. And thank you so much for having me happy to be a guest. And I've been looking forward to this all week, sir.   Michael Hingson ** 02:03 Well, tell me a little bit about maybe the younger key for growing up and all that and sort of how you got started or whatever.   02:10 Oh, ah, yeah, that   Michael Hingson ** 02:11 was I know that opens it that takes an hour but go to it. No, yeah. So   Kiefer Jone ** 02:16 what can I say I'm I'm a small town, Indiana kid. I grew up in a tiny little town called Decatur, Indiana. It's a one stoplight town. I am the oldest son of three boys in a single mother. So single mom household. Yeah, I grew up there and started off my life in this tiny one stop town where eventually we moved to Indianapolis. And I finished out high school. So that was quite a turn of I think environments, went to Indianapolis, finished high school. And after that, you know, decided, wow, I need a much better way to pay for college and try to figure out the next phase of life. And so that brought me to the Air Force. You know, the Air Force since then lead to a lot of different opportunities. But that's the real skinny of where I'm from, and just kind of you know that upbringing.   Michael Hingson ** 03:08 Well, there you go. What was it like? Having a single parent? I mean, I'm, I never did. I had both my parents until, well, I was 34. So I was out on my own and married by them. But what was it like having just a single mother and not a dad around? Absolutely.   Kiefer Jone ** 03:29 That's a great question. It's one that you know, I got to reflect on a little bit. And one of you know, and one of these these topics I'm sure we're gonna talk on. But that was one of the early challenges I think I faced and it was something that I'll be honest and kind of say, it's almost that old saying that if you can't miss something that you never had. And so I think that that just as a child, that's the way that it was to me, you know, people ask me that question all the time. And it's, I just, I didn't miss what I didn't have. And so, it I didn't meet I met my biological father, and much later in life when I was 27 years old, my goal, but during, you know, growing up and everything else, it was something that just wasn't because I didn't have it. Yeah. So it was, you know, I was grateful for what I did have,   Michael Hingson ** 04:15 what was it like meeting him?   Kiefer Jone ** 04:19 It was, you know, that it was curiosity was the was the biggest thing it was, you know, nurture nature, kind of those setting some of those arguments to the side and trying to figure that out. And I will say, you know, I had no expectations. And I showed up and we met each other and he's very different from myself. And you know, his family is very different. And it was it was enlightening. It was it was good, but it really, I would say that at the end of the day, it also didn't. It was nice to get some of those I guess those curiosities checked off the box. Outside of that it was just kind of a another day As we keep in contact lately, you know, I'll shoot him a message every now and again during the holidays or something. But it's not a relationship that that neither of us, I think, you know, have and continue to maintain. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 05:11 And I'm not surprised at that, you know, my one of my biggest curiosities, the question that I get asked all the time, is, well, you're blind, don't you want to see. And my response to that is, you know, life's an adventure. And having eyesight for me now would be another adventure. But I don't live just to get eyesight. I'm curious, it'd be interesting to experience it to know what it's like. But if it doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world for me. And I believe that all of us are not. Well, we're not, we're not formed, and we're not molded by our eyesight or lack of eyesight. We're molded by all sorts of different characteristics about us. And I would like to think that if I had eyesight from the beginning, I would still be somewhat like I am. And if I got eyesight, even after now, I wouldn't change my attitudes, because I think I've learned a lot about what it's like to see without actually having experienced it. So it's, it's kind of a fascinating thing, but I hear exactly what you're saying. It's, you know, it's a curiosity. And you got to satisfy that which is great as your mom's still around.   Kiefer Jone ** 06:31 She is indeed, yeah, she still lives very near the same town where I grew up that so.   Michael Hingson ** 06:38 And she keeps you honest.   Kiefer Jone ** 06:42 She does indeed. Yeah. keeps me honest. She taught me you know, to be to be good to people. And to be kind.   Michael Hingson ** 06:47 Well, you got it from two sides, because you're now married. That's absolutely correct. And your and your wife's name is?   06:54 Her name is Christine. Christine. Okay. Yeah. But she goes   Kiefer Jone ** 06:58 my team.   Michael Hingson ** 06:59 I was gonna say she goes by teen I thought, this is silent as Chris is silent. And Christine. Yeah. She's my better half. Well, and she keeps yelling at us, which is kind of cool. So you went to high school? Did you go to college?   Kiefer Jone ** 07:14 So I went to a year of college, my goal, and that's when I found out that I could not pay for it. And so that's when I said, How are we going to make this happen? You know, how are we going to address this obstacle, this challenge and the Air Force seemed like a really great opportunity, a good place to get that opportunity.   Michael Hingson ** 07:33 So you joined the Air Force? And what did you go off and do in the Air Force?   Kiefer Jone ** 07:37 Yes, sir. joined the Air Force. And I came in as what they call a client systems technician. And so I started my career in the Air Force working on computers, any end user device with an IP address? That was the work that I got to work on. So   Michael Hingson ** 07:52 did you fly yourself or what?   Kiefer Jone ** 07:58 That's that one is the common question. Hey, Air Force guy, you fly, right? No. So that's   Michael Hingson ** 08:04 why I asked because I kind of got the feeling that you weren't one of the ones that will set behind the stick. No,   Kiefer Jone ** 08:10 sir. And I was the guy who helped, you know, fix his computer, fix his email, get into his server, whatever he or she needed. That's when I that's what I helped do.   Michael Hingson ** 08:19 My father worked for the government for many years. As a contractor, he ran the precision measurements equipment lab at Edwards Air Force Base, in the well, in the 1960s, in the 1970s. So he worked with all of the test pilots and stuff, he worked with Neil Armstrong, Joe Walker, who flew the x 15, and other things like that. And his job was to make sure that everybody who worked for him, made sure that all the all the equipment and everything worked the way it was supposed to, which was a fascinating job. We went out and visited Edwards a few times. It was really funny. We went out once and my dad came on. So you can't come in quite yet. We've got some top secret equipment, and you can't come into the lab. And I said, Why is that an issue for me? And he said, Well, it is anyway. So   Kiefer Jone ** 09:13 that's a good point. And that's, you know, if you don't ask the answers, always no. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 09:17 Well, I didn't mind but it was it was fun to be able to ask the question and he laughed at it and and then when we got inside, everybody else laughed too. And they said we could election and my dad said, well, the rules are the rules. And I'm not gonna complain. Yeah. Which is, that   Kiefer Jone ** 09:35 is a fascinating thing. It doesn't you know, often specify and that it doesn't talk about, you know, people having visual disabilities and those things that just to hear the policy you either have the clearance or you don't, right.   Michael Hingson ** 09:48 So, you, you worked on the computers, you kept everybody going and all that. You must have some really interesting stories of challenges or things that you faced when you did that or any any kind of Cute stories to tell, not to give away secrets, but just fun stories.   Kiefer Jone ** 10:05 I mean, we did some really incredible work, you know, I would say that the most rewarding part of my entire Air Force career was when, you know, I had the ability and the opportunity to deploy it. And so when I did that, I was able to go out into, you know, the, the Al dhafra, in the United Arab Emirates. And we got to be a really large part of the connective tissue of the Air Force, it was, hey, not only is this the system that you're integrating on to this network, but this is how it's, you know, helping us utilize command and control capabilities to you know, fight enemies and do operations. And that was just such a really, really neat experience. And it helped, you know, be the adhesive glue for my career and say, Wow, okay, I'm not just fixing so and so's email, this, you know, this solution that we put in over here, this was some really incredible work. That   Michael Hingson ** 10:53 made up a big difference in did help. Place the glue that held everything together. And that makes perfect sense. And that really shows that no matter what your job is, all jobs are valuable. And we should never look down on or treat anyone differently just because their job isn't what we think is as important as our job because the bottom line is it very well could be   Kiefer Jone ** 11:16 you agree more. Yeah, everybody. It's just all about the perspective lens. We're looking at it through.   Michael Hingson ** 11:22 So you were in the Air Force for what, seven years? Yes, sir.   11:26 No, I'm   Michael Hingson ** 11:28 sorry. Oh, you're you're in Europe for seven years. Europe   Kiefer Jone ** 11:31 for seven and a half years now I was in the Air Force for a bow. I think just around nine years, almost at the 10 year marker.   Michael Hingson ** 11:41 So what happened at the end of seven years in Europe. So   Kiefer Jone ** 11:44 it was a bit of a strange story there. So I went to Europe as an Air National Guardsmen. And that's what I originally was, I was the guy who showed up did my job once a month and I worked for civilian companies regularly. So I worked for Dell and Eli Lilly previously. And then so they brought me to Europe on this interesting tour that said, Hey, this is a state budget, not a federal budget. And for you National Guard, guys, because we know you have commercial experience, we want to utilize you to help the Air Force over here to make it better. And so I've had to work, probably five different jobs. By the time I was I was done in Germany and got out of the uniform. And within that three and a half years, we were in Germany, I met a really great program manager for this exciting company that I hadn't heard of called Agile defense. And at that time, he said, Hey, I would love for you to come and join us join our team. I think it'd be a great asset for our company. And that kicked me off into my role as a government contractor and it brought us for another interesting assignment and Aviano Italy. And so that's where, you know, we we spent the rest of our European adventure and stayed out there for almost seven and a half years total in Europe altogether. Coming back to America, just this June, actually.   Michael Hingson ** 13:00 Wow. Yeah. And then you so you left the Air Force, and eventually and then what happened? What did you do then?   Kiefer Jone ** 13:09 I said, Yeah, so I left the Air Force and because I got to take off the uniform and pretty much show back up the next day as a contractor it was I just took the uniform off and came back and you know, the khakis and a polo or something and started my job and Aviano Italy. And once I became a government contractor, my role was was similar but different. You know, so I worked. Instead of reporting directly to the folks in the military uniforms, the Air Force members, I got work beside them as their peer as their consultant is their advisor for their technological solutions and to help maintain those and I essentially just, I helped manage a data center at Aviano Italy and, you know, got to help them and integrate well with their operations along the way, picking up interests and becoming passionate and business agility and some of the Agile frameworks. Did   Michael Hingson ** 14:03 it feel a lot different since you were no longer reporting directly to the military? And it had to be a little bit different feeling?   Kiefer Jone ** 14:13 Oh, yeah, it was and it took me a little bit to find my my ground. You know, just to walk in through the door and say, okay, you know, and it was that amount of freedom I think was a little bit liberating to come in through the door and say, Oh, I'm, I know what I need to do. I know what my job is. I know what my requirements are. And so I just go and I do that rather than waiting for someone to tell me what to do. And especially because this happened at the same time as COVID It was especially interesting because I was the first government contractor to Aviano Italy and so I truly was there kind of on my own just saying, hey, not only my approaching this changing career, but now change in reality and life at the moment with the lock downs and different things happening. And Italy was just so heavily afflicted by the throes of the pandemic. And, you know, probably arguably more than many of the European countries because their, their age demographic was much older. So a lot of unique and interesting challenges in the year of 2019 2020, not just for me, but for everyone.   Michael Hingson ** 15:22 Yeah, it had to be unusual for me, when COVID hit. I was in New York, on the fifth of March of 2020, even when I had a speech to give that night, which I did. And then I went back to the hotel, and I was hearing about this guy who attended the synagogue and he had this disease COVID. And it was spreading and all that. And they were talking about locking down the city and I went, I don't like this. So I was scheduled to fly out the next afternoon at like 430 or five o'clock, and I went, I'm not going to do that. They're going to lock down the city, I better escape. So I changed my flight. And I went out at 730 in the morning, and I'm glad I did, I got out before they locked down the city. And oh my gosh, girl with a couple of days later, but it could have been not. And so it was good to just get out. But it was a strange feeling. I came home. And my wife, who was still alive at the time had rheumatoid arthritis. So that's an autoimmune disease situation. So it made it easier to just stay home. And travel was was cut off pretty quickly anyway, but it was easy to stay home, because I didn't want to do anything that would jeopardize her Of course. And so we both just agreed to lock down and stay at home. And we liked each other well enough that we could talk and we just spend lots of time together. And then all went well. And I learned a lot about zoom and learn how to do podcasting. And that was very helpful later on. But the bottom line is, yeah, it was certainly a tough time for all of us. And the only thing that I find very unfortunate is so many people refuse to mask when they went out. And I think that they contributed greatly to the number of people who caught COVID and perished from it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that was just one of those things. But everybody makes their own choices. Yes, sir. And then you. You go you go deal with that? Well, so then when it so you came back from Italy? This year, this June? Wow. And you're in the summertime. Now, when did you and team get married? Tina   Kiefer Jone ** 17:45 and I got married, we will have been married seven years on the 21st of this month.   Michael Hingson ** 17:50 And Do either of you speak Italian? Well,   Kiefer Jone ** 17:53 we both do X good for you. Yeah, we both learned we learned a German as well. So it took three years of German was there. And it was that was really challenging. But in Italy, it was you know, we knew the drill. We knew what we needed to do. And so it was not only easier, because we spent a lot of time learning the German language. But now it was easier because Italian as a whole is much simpler language. German is very challenging as far as structure and rules. So   Michael Hingson ** 18:22 yeah, I love what Mark Twain said about German, which is basically that you start talking and you talk until the verb comes out at the other end. I took three years of German in high school, so I understood that but yeah. So you came back. And what do you do now?   Kiefer Jone ** 18:44 Yeah, so now I still work with the same great company, the same company, it's adult defense, and I actually support another Air Force agency called the Air Force Office of Scientific Research. So they're my primary customer and our primary customer at the moment. At the same time, I spend a lot of time you know, supporting my wife's business because we both co own a multimedia company called Tiki design productions. And so I'm usually pretty, pretty busy.   Michael Hingson ** 19:13 Cool. Tell me about the company. What do you do? Yeah,   Kiefer Jone ** 19:17 so my wife started this back in Germany because she went to Indiana University as a film student, and she graduated and almost right after graduation, we moved to Germany. And because she just couldn't go up to a film agency and say, Hey, can I work here because this isn't the way it works with the SOFA agreement and everything else. We decided to start our own endeavor there. And you know, you put a team plus keeper together, chop off some of the letters and that becomes Tiki. So that was actually coined by my mother. And so we created Tiki design productions. Yeah. And so with that company, you know, we provide what we like to call digital storytelling as a service. And so digital storytelling is a service is essentially, you know, everybody has a story to tell, as you know, you have me on this on this amazing podcast to tell my story. And I loved reading and hearing about yours. And digital storytelling is now because everything is so digitally involved phones, you know computers, tablets, et cetera. Everybody has these incredible stories, whether you're an individual or a business partner, or a mom and pop shop down the street. And so our job is to not only get to hear your story, but then to tell it and in a way that is emotional and captivating and, and cohesive not just another business sticker or placement, it's we truly pride ourselves on being able to tell people's stories in an authentic and unique way. And that's been really rewarding.   Michael Hingson ** 20:44 So what, what do you do to really bring a story alive? When you're, when you're doing a digital storytelling? What brings the story to people what, what draws them in to the story?   Kiefer Jone ** 21:00 Absolutely. So we spend some time at first, you know, getting to interview those folks, we get to interview the people, or the person that is, you know, that has hired us for our service. And we spend a good amount of time getting their emotions and getting what really, you know, makes them passionate about what they do. And so through that investigative, you know, mindset through inquisitiveness, through all of these things, we can then start to put ideas behind some of these videos, and some of these stories and we work collaboratively with them to say, Hey, this is what we're envisioning, right. And my wife has such a wonderful eye and wonderful gift to talk to people. And even if it's something is, you know, she did this recently for something like real estate, it sounds on paper, it's not the sexiest shiniest thing, right? It doesn't sound that incredible. And somehow she's able to ask enough questions in the right questions to grab this story, shape it into, you know, anywhere between a three minute long commercial or a seven minute long commercial or something like that. And just the way, you know, filming is done, the way that she films, the color grading all of these professional qualities that she puts behind it, she turns it into an unbelievable product. And people often you know, when they're done, they can't believe that she was able to tell their story in such a significant light. It's something that, you know, she's, they're really proud of which in turn, it makes us really proud.   Michael Hingson ** 22:23 So many people just don't understand that everyone really does have a story to tell I've had so many people say, Well, if I come on your podcast, I don't know what I talked about. Because my story is not interesting. It's not like these other people who have these interesting and amazing careers. And it is so difficult to get people to understand that everyone has a story. And the stories are there. It is a matter of helping to draw them out. But but they're there. So what do people when they why do they engage Tiki to do that? What is what is the whole idea behind digital storytelling?   Kiefer Jone ** 23:06 I you know, I think we touched on it just a little bit. But it is it's it's that you have a desire to tell your story. At the end of the day, we all want to have our story told and we you know, we'd like it to live somewhere. And previously, it was books and a lot of people putting their stories and memoirs into books. But with digital media being the new norm and consumption being done through the internet, it just seems like this is the the natural next step is what is our digital story. What's the our footprint and our legacy look like in the digital realm. And so people, people come to us for that.   Michael Hingson ** 23:41 So how do people use the stories that you create?   Kiefer Jone ** 23:46 Or they'll use them mostly everything from you know, people just wanting to tell a story about their first date of how they met their loved ones. And they'll post it on Facebook to share with people that they know and love. And you'll see others, you know, utilizing business commercials and they'll promote that either on whether it's you know, Facebook, Instagram, social media, any of those form factors, but as well as internet ads on YouTube or television, so I can go as small or as deep as anybody likes. Wow.   Michael Hingson ** 24:16 What's the longest story that you've created? I   Kiefer Jone ** 24:21 think that a lot of those you know, as far as length is concerned, it it normally that one is almost always like wedding videos. So a lot of people you know they love those those stories and I think that with those you spend a whole day capturing footage and being able to tell that kind of story and it's a special one to tell it is usually people you know, that one's a lot, a lot more for the memories. I think of those folks rather than it is for everyone else to sit and watch it because even businesses you know, don't typically want a a 20 minute long commercial or want their story to be told for that long. So I'd have to say I think weddings   Michael Hingson ** 24:59 that your 20 minute story is a is a long story, especially for for business people who operate in the mindset that anything beyond a 30 or a 62nd video, people will lose attention. And I'm not exact, totally sure about that. But that's, but I understand 20 minutes is way too long to, it's all in how you tell the story as to how long you can make it and keep people's interest? Yeah.   Kiefer Jone ** 25:29 It goes back to that that y value of okay, well, who's it for? Who are we making it for? And what's the what, what do you want to get out of this? And with wedding videos, I think it's just, it's, it's become a better version of a scrapbook?   Michael Hingson ** 25:41 Very much so. And that and that makes sense. Well, so you do that. So do you do company work? Well, how much of your time do you spend doing it?   25:55 Just depends, you   Kiefer Jone ** 25:56 know, everything in art seems to be feast and famine, you get a little bit in a you know, sometimes you're you've got a lot of different clientele and different things to do. And sometimes it's not so much. So I get to ebb and flow my time pretty well. But there's, you know, at least there's always something to be done. If it's not directly helping the service or to help my wife was something we go into. Okay, well, what's our next what's our next marketing strategy looks like from Mr. Company. Okay, how do we promote ourselves? Where do we? Where do we go? And what do we who do we target to be able to continue?   Michael Hingson ** 26:28 And did you say you still do the government contract work?   Kiefer Jone ** 26:31 Yes, sir. Five days a week,   Michael Hingson ** 26:33 you you keep pretty busy. Yes, sir. And if they wanted you to come and do a digital story about the company yet? Oh, well, because   Kiefer Jone ** 26:42 this is, you know, the Air Force Office of Scientific research has its own PR department that you know, that they don't really ask me to do any of that.   Michael Hingson ** 26:52 Well, you never know. Something. That's something to think about. Well, so you and your wife clearly have a very good and close relationship. But I think that's important. We got to do that for 40 years. So I understand the whole concept. But you, you have this relationship, what are kind of maybe the three or so things that you really feel, go into making up your relationship and keeping everything so positive? Yeah,   Kiefer Jone ** 27:25 yes, sir. And Michael, I was, I was so sad to hear about your late wife. I'm very sorry.   Michael Hingson ** 27:31 Well, like I tell people, though, I need to continue to be a good kid. Because if I don't, I'm going to hear about it from her. She's up there monitoring somewhere.   Kiefer Jone ** 27:41 Yes, there. Yeah, you know, our relationship is an interesting one. Because my wife and I spent so much of our initial time, just getting to know each other, there was, you know, we we actually weren't together. And we, we both met each other very independent stages of our lives. And it was something that it was almost tangible, I could feel that independence about her. And she could feel it about myself. And so we actually, you know, we were just friends, and we just got to know each other. And so, I do think that the bulk of our relationship, and I would say any real great relationship has to be built on the foundation of honesty, and I'm talking real honesty, you know, showing who the real you is. And that requires a bit of bravery to be the real you and to talk about and say, hey, no subject is too taboo. We're going to talk about everything. And so I think that that's the, the first pillar. And the other two from that, I think are you know, they are products that rely heavily on honesty, right, so if your relationship is built, if your foundation is built on honesty, one of the things that comes as more of a result of that the second most important thing to me is laughter. Right, finding time to be silly. And, you know, with being honest, and your true self, there's a bit of silliness that comes with that naturally, you know, and so lots and lots of laughter I don't think that you can ever go wrong and you know, being a big kid and laughing all the time. And you know, the third most important thing to me is communication. And again, that is a another product of honesty, discussing everything and often you know, it's I find it hard to hear when people you know, have to schedule time for each other to sit down and just have a conversation and I can you know, I can try to understand because I know that people get busy but you know, we just communication is such a giant pillar in our relationship that I couldn't imagine having to schedule time to sit down with my wife to get a few words and   Michael Hingson ** 29:50 yeah, I appreciate all three of those because they're they're very much a part of what made our marriage I think such a great One communication is so important. And you have to do it all the time. And we liked talking to each other about anything. And as you pointed out honesty and being open is absolutely crucial about whatever. And it's important to be able to have that deep of a relationship, that you can talk about anything and not judge. And I think that's the other part of it. You, you communicate, but you don't judge the other person just because they are honest enough to tell you something that, you know, you didn't even think about.   30:37 Exactly, yes, sir.   Michael Hingson ** 30:41 We had a podcast interview quite a while ago with a gentleman who lives back near where you live. And when he and his wife turned 40, he asked her, he said, So what do you want to do with the rest of your life? And she said, I want to adopt a daughter from China, which totally floored him. And he said, why? And she told him, Well, they eventually did it, it became an adventure for them. And I think the daughter Mia is probably about 2425 years old. And a few years ago, she wanted to actually try to find her birth parents, which is hard in China, but they did. And he's written a book about it, which is really cool.   31:24 What's the name of the book?   Michael Hingson ** 31:26 I wish I could remember, but it is. If you still have the email, I said, I'll have to go find the episode. But it's, if you still have the email that I sent you as one of the episodes that that I included.   Kiefer Jone ** 31:40 Okay, I do. Excellent. Yeah, I'll have to make sure to go and watch that one and get the book sounds, you know, some similarities there. Just meeting parents and that kind of challenge. How fascinating.   Michael Hingson ** 31:52 Yeah, he's, it's a fascinating story. But he really worked hard at going through it all. And they, they agreed, and they went and they adopted a daughter. And then they adopted a second daughter. And I wish I could remember the name of the book right off, but it's been a long time. It's like episode 38 or something. And we're up at episode 277. So it's a while ago, but it's a fascinating book. I haven't read the book. It wasn't available in a form I could read, but he told me all about it. So it was really fascinating to hear the story. Well, that happens. So you have gone through some physical challenges in your existence, haven't you?   Kiefer Jone ** 32:40 Yes, sir. It's yeah, it was, you know, towards the tail end of us leaving leaving Europe. And yeah, I had a separate a really serious Polly traumatic incident in Innsbruck, Austria. Ah,   Michael Hingson ** 32:58 and what happened, if you want to talk about it? Yeah,   Kiefer Jone ** 33:01 of course, I was. I was snowboarding we were in school. It was a ski resort that my wife and I loved and we cherish and we've been to it so many times. And it was a wonderful day, like so many of our days spent out there and the snow was coming down. And we were just having a great time. And essentially, on this run, that there's a, there's a little fork in the road, and either you stay in the Austrian side, or the other side allows you to go over to Switzerland, which is really neat. You know, isn't that something being able to snowboard in two different places. And so, I'm just really going and we're moving because it's feeling good. And we're probably, you know, probably 45 miles an hour, I think my my friend who was with us had his GoPro and he caught the whole thing on video for both good and bad. But as we're coming down this and I'm getting to that fork in the road, somebody yells at me, and I realized that I might be missing my turn. So I turn around to look because I look ahead and I see this signs there, then the steel signage jetting out, I see. Okay, it's probably 15 feet ahead and I turn around the look. And then as soon as I turn my my head back forward, that's the basically the steel signs that were pointing out of the postage, it hit me right underneath my right eye, and it immediately caved my skaaland and shattered it into about 14 pieces, some of those pieces getting lodged into the the front part of my brain. And so you know, immediately it knocked me unconscious and my then lifeless body, I guess. And unflinching body goes into the poll, which was not covered. And so all of my ribs on my right side were broken and a number of them went through my lungs. My rotator cuff and my right shoulder was shattered and I broke, you know, or I fractured my spine as well. And so you know, I was I was at the highest Glasgow Coma. index level that you can be. And, again, due to my wife and her quick ability to act, she came down and she saw me and knew that something wasn't right. And just, you know, this just shows just her brain and how incredible it is she was able to not only call the right number, which isn't 911, you know, it's 112 Over there. Yeah, call the number. And she got somebody on the line. And she was able to, you know, despite language challenges and barriers there, she was able to get some folks over to pick me up via helicopter.   Michael Hingson ** 35:36 And so when you do it, you do it right, don't you?   Kiefer Jone ** 35:38 Oh, yeah, I guess so.   35:42 Anyway, go ahead. Oh, no. So the helicopter,   Kiefer Jone ** 35:44 it came and picked me up and they had to resuscitate me in the back of this helicopter, you know, a few. Who knows how long the doctors weren't sure. They, you know, but either a minute, the other way, and I wouldn't be having this conversation. You know, I heard this so many times during my recovery from my doctors. And so that sent me into a coma. And I was in a coma for seven days in Innsbruck, Austria and their ICU unit for their hospital over there. And when I finally did wake up, I was blind in my right eye, and not because of the damage to my eye, my eyes actually completely healthy. You wouldn't you know, if you could see me, Michael, you wouldn't believe it, but the eye is completely healthy. And it's just this specific damage done to my brain. This left me now permanently blind.   Michael Hingson ** 36:38 In your right eye?   36:39 Yes, sir.   Michael Hingson ** 36:40 Do you see still well, from your left eye?   Kiefer Jone ** 36:43 Yeah, left. I mean, I didn't see super well, before I added contacts and glasses my whole life. So but you   Michael Hingson ** 36:50 can you drive? I can drive you okay.   Kiefer Jone ** 36:53 You know, that was one of the, you know, part of the recovery process. The   Michael Hingson ** 36:57 brain is such an adaptable thing, and made great that you can do that. Well, so what, what got you through all of that?   Kiefer Jone ** 37:09 This was this is one of those one of those things, you know, we talked about positive adaptability a little bit. And, you know, I think when I think about positive adaptability, I think about it in three different ways is how I've been able to sum it up, you know, the, I think it's centered around three parts and positive adaptability. Part one is gratitude, you know, gratitude, how can I reflect? What can I be thankful for. And as I was in that hospital, and I woke up, obviously, the first thing I'm thankful for is Oh, my God, I'm alive. You know, the next section of gratitude was, okay, I think I have, you know, I know who I am. I have my memories, even though these doctors are saying you might not have this, you might not have that they're unsure. But that's what that's all that's going through my through my brain at the time is, how can I what am I, you know, I'm grateful about all of these different things. And then the next part of positive adaptability is really intention. So I have gratitude for for everything that I still have all of this stuff, but now what's, what's my intention? And I knew that my intention in that bed before I could even really before I had walked, before I had really moved at all before I, you know, knew whether or not I could, it was that I was gonna get better. That was my intention, whatever that looks like, even if it was accepting this new normal. Right. And so it was, you know, this is, this was a big intention. That's a big blanket intention. I guess, you know, for my other Agile methodology, industry, people, we could call that the epic to the user stories, my intention was to get better. And then after that, it was it was action. So you know, first reflecting and saying, Hey, I'm grateful. Second was, what do what do I want to do? And then third was action, first step, and all that I could do really Michael was to listen to the doctors, listen to people listen to my wife, who was visiting. And then it was basic things after that was okay. How do I eat? How do I get? How do I get nutrients back into my body? How do I if I can't walk, can I practice sitting up in the hospital bed? And so I would, you know, kind of sit up and do what I could and move different parts of my body. And then it was, Okay, the next iterative thing, how do I walk at first, I couldn't even walk a few steps to the bathroom. And then it was just iterative progress of, okay, you made it to this title last time key for it. Can you make it a little bit further? Can you make it a little bit further? And then it was memory tests, you know, all the way up to just this summer? I did my first 5k that I've done, you know, since my accident, and so I did a 5k this summer. How long ago was the accident? The accident was in February, I'm sorry, January of 20 2214.   Michael Hingson ** 40:04 Wow. Okay, so you'll be coming up on two years soon. Yes, sir. But you did the 5k.   40:13 Yeah. Yeah. Well, how   Michael Hingson ** 40:15 did you learn about this concept of positive adaptability?   Kiefer Jone ** 40:21 It's, it's something that I had, you know, I'd never heard it until I think I, I started doing a lot of introspection introspection during my recovery, there was, there was a three month part of my recovery where I didn't really get up, and I didn't really do anything, my doctor said that, hey, you just need to be still be there, do some cognitive, you know, there are great applications out there, I used a couple of them to train my brain and help develop my my new synapses. Because micros, I'm sure, you know, when your brain gets damaged, your brain never heals, it just creates new roads to travel down, right. And so, you know, utilizing that I spent a lot of time in my own mind, just thinking. And positive adaptability was something that, you know, I don't know if I coined it, but it's certainly going to be the name of the book that I hope to put out in 2025, because nobody's taken the title yet. So it's something that I just, I, I found that that was the way that I approached my life. And it was even that way before my accident, it was this is, you know, this is how I've gotten from here to here it almost every challenge and major obstacle of my life. It's not, you know, it's not just resiliency or optimism. It's it's positive adaptability. And when I said it, I wrote it down in my, in my phone, and I started writing ideas for books, and I started, you know, more fleshing out this concept that I hadn't really been introduced to, but that I think, just makes a lot of sense in the way a lot of people navigate their challenges and obstacles and you yourself, I believe, are a, a wonderfully shining candidate of positive adaptability. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 42:06 I think that all too often we, we focus on so many negative things, we focus on why we can't do stuff, as opposed to how we make it happen. And there's no reason that we can't do whatever we feel we can do. And I mean that and and again, not to be in a punish a punny way, but in a positive way, we really can be positive, we really can learn to adapt and do so many things that we don't think we can. And, and unfortunately, I think all too often we get taught that we can't do things, we can't really be as malleable and as adaptable as we really can be. Right? And it gets to be a real a real challenge. So you, you just suddenly created this concept. If I were you, I'd go copyright it somewhere. And that way, you've got it for the book. Yeah, yeah, that's   Kiefer Jone ** 43:07 good feedback. And, you know, it's something that I have to look into. But yeah, positive adaptability is truly, you know, ever since I started, it's something that I, I bring up often, and I've tried to, you know, the folks that I get to interact with, and the way I get to work with people try to implement these things in every which way, not only in personal life, but professionally, too.   Michael Hingson ** 43:28 So just sort of out of curiosity, what would you say is the difference between positive adaptability and resilience? Because resilience is, of course, something that many of us experience were resilient, because we, we overcome adversity and so on. But what's the difference between positive adaptability and resilience? Absolutely.   Kiefer Jone ** 43:48 And that was something you know, I had sat and dwell on for a while. And you know, we, when we think about resilience, we think about typically elasticity, we think about the ability of someone to snap or bounce back from something, maybe it's from adversity, maybe it's just a large challenge, about resiliency, in my opinion, it doesn't really imply that, you know, a positive choice was really made, or maybe a bad pattern. And so, you know, the simplest example I can think of is, you know, somebody walks through the door, and maybe they get punched in the face, right? And they get sick, I'm going to be resilient about this. I'm going to do the same thing tomorrow and do it again and again, and you can take a lot of punches, right, but doesn't necessarily mean we solved a problem. But we can take that and expand that. As far as you know, someone might say, Well, my country has showed true resilience regarding this war. And maybe they had but maybe no one had ever questioned if if was that war being fought for the right reasons. You know, were we incredibly resilient, but did we was it for the right purpose? And so, for me resiliency defined And someone's ability or you know, an entity's ability to bounce back. But positive adaptability can provide us with really positive posturing for how we land advantageous lead.   Michael Hingson ** 45:14 Okay, go into that a little bit more, if you would.   Kiefer Jone ** 45:18 Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think that just talking about essentially positive adaptability is the heading. It is, you know, it's not only saying, Hey, I'm choosing to look at this positively and be resilient about it. But this is a heading for where I need to go. This is the direction for where I want to take this. And I think that that stems back into kind of what what positive adaptability means to me. And it's just so much more than just optimism. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 45:50 Well, it clearly is, because it's not enough to be optimistic, but it's taking that and deciding on a direction deciding on a choice. And then following through with that, until either you find that you made a great choice. Or you find that, well, maybe that wasn't such a good choice. And what we need to do is alter course a little bit, which gets back to the adaptability part of it.   Kiefer Jone ** 46:22 Exactly. And that's, and that's, you know, when I when I think about it, and how I would describe it to others. And you know, just now that we're talking about that, and kind of centered around optimism, as you know, so if, for example, we take these three pillars of positive adaptability, gratitude, intention, and action, and we think about it from the point of optimism, gratitude, and looking at the old optimistic phrase of the glass is half full. Right. So when I think about gratitude, first we say, well, I'm grateful for water. Okay, excellent. We are grateful for water. But then when we think about intention, okay, well, why are we grateful for this water? What is our intention? Is it to have more water? So then my question might be, how do we find a stream? Is the question is my intention to make it look like we have more water than maybe my intention, then is to find a smaller cup, right? Or is my intention to share the water? So then how can I get multiple cups so that we're all sharing this, and then action is carrying out that action? So it's, it's optimism, it's resilience plus?   Michael Hingson ** 47:36 Makes perfect sense. And the the whole idea, again, is to really learn more about yourself. And I talk a lot about introspection, spending time at the end of the day, what worked, what didn't work. And even when and something worked, can I make it better, but really looking at yourself in a in a positive light, and recognizing that there really isn't such a thing as failure? It's another opportunity. And the failure is, well, this didn't work the way I expected it to work. That's not mean it was a failure. That doesn't mean I should be defeated. It means All right, what's next sports fans? And how do we move forward from here? Hmm, sir. And I think that that's what what most people really miss in the whole process is taking the time to analyze and look at yourself and you, you're your best teacher, nobody else can teach you like you can teach you. And so we should look at what goes on around us and what we do. And look at it in the light of how can I make it better?   Kiefer Jone ** 48:49 Yeah, yeah. And I think that, you know, it comes down to just folks in their, their practical strategies and sort of exercises that I guess they can develop to sustain that kind of, of, you know, mindset.   49:04 Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 49:07 So have you read any books or encountered other kinds of things that have really helped you move forward on this whole concept of positive adaptability? Ah,   Kiefer Jone ** 49:18 yeah, you know, that the first one that comes to mind, of course, is my wife, my better half, right? So just being so instrumental in our transparent communication, and a partner and a resource and a grounding point for everything that I do. Sometimes I might just come out and blurt out the most ridiculous idea she's ever heard. But she'll say, well keep her that was, you know, that was here, but you know, how do we make it here? Or she might tell and keep it that's crazy. So, you know, she is the wives can do that. And that's fair. They keep us grounded. And so yeah, I couldn't have I couldn't have imagined a better partnership and I love having her in my life to be that person. And I To say that, you know, the, on top of someone to share experiences with and to mentor and do these things I have had a significant, you know, nudge in my life from an executive at our company, agile defense, and his name is Lonnie Nichols. And he's, you know, despite all of his busyness as an executive to our company, and being a great family, man, he's been, you know, a great guide, he's nudged me to be better. He's he actually challenged me to get on this with you today, Michael, because at first I said, the same thing I think a lot of your folks do is, I don't have a story to tell. He said, Keep Ramona, I think it's even more important that you do this, right. And so he, he challenged me to do this. And he's been, you know, challenging me to just be better in every way that I can. And he also eats, breathes and sleeps, you know, this mantra of listen first. And I love that, and I've applied that in my life. And he's, you know, he's turned me on to a number of books that I've read. And, you know, outside of that some resources that I've I've implemented that, you know, helped me more with positive adaptability, I have this great gift, my wife bought me called The Five Minute Journal. And you know, every single page, it essentially has an incredible quote at the top, it's small, it's short, it asks you to list three things you're grateful for. And three things that would make today great, a daily affirmation, you know, then you get, at the end of the day, at night, when you do your retrospective, you look through and you list three highlights of your day. And then what you learned. And so that's been an incredibly wonderful, you know, thing to have in my life and implement. And it always allows me, as you said, Michael, to go back and reflect and see if I could have made something a little bit better. And I love that.   Michael Hingson ** 51:43 And even if you can't, you may tomorrow. Exactly,   Kiefer Jone ** 51:47 yeah, you write about it the next day. But you know, outside of that I got, you know, Ted lasso. For it being a fictional television show, I couldn't imagine a more positively adaptable character out there that I've I still, every time I watch the show, it's only three seasons long, I continue to learn something new that I can apply to my life to others, the lives of others. And that's been a really great show. And then there's a book out there called Positive Intelligence. That's a book that helps us identify, you know, our sabotage our saboteur thoughts, and our saboteur emotions, and how to live our lives and mitigate some of those things. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 52:28 one thing that I think is coming out of this is I would love to have your friend from national defense to come on the podcast as well, how do we get him on?   Kiefer Jone ** 52:35 Oh, man, I think he, I think he'd be happy to do it. And he's got, you know, he's got an incredible story as well. And he shared, he shared some of that with me. So I'll definitely, you know, reach out to him and see if I can, you know, hey, you challenge me and challenge you, and   Michael Hingson ** 52:50 give you my email address. And let's touch base, I would love to we're always looking for more guests on unstoppable mindset. And, you know, as I said, everyone has a story to tell them, It's neat when people really understand that they have a story to tell and want to tell the story. And, you know, I'm thinking, and I know, I'm doing this during the podcast, but you might think about doing a digital story about positive adaptability, and copyright it and that also starts to get the message out, maybe you do a few of those, and that becomes part of the book. Yeah, yeah,   Kiefer Jone ** 53:23 exactly. And that's, you know, that's this is really, Michael, this is kind of phase one for for future implementations and things like that. And it's, it's establishing that as your personal brand, you know, I'm sure that you'd be a great resource and have a lot of advice for, hey, this is this is how you you do this is how you bring your message forward, because you've got such a great one that you're sharing with the world, love   Michael Hingson ** 53:45 to help in any way that we can. So can you suggest some exercises and some different things that people can do to kind of help create for themselves this whole idea of a positive adaptability mindset? Ah,   Kiefer Jone ** 54:01 yeah, yeah, absolutely. I, you know, we touched on some of this a little bit earlier. And I think that some of the stuff that you said is, it's amazing how, you know, somebody who's been through it, and who has it, you get it already. And you've already said some of the things but there are four things that I think about, you know, and it's, the first one is practicing honesty. And as we talked about earlier, and you'd said, Michael, that the hardest part of honesty is with ourselves. It's that introspection, you know, and it's, I know that that can be challenging for a lot of people. And the first thing I've had folks throw at me is how can I be honest, you know, with about this or about this, and it's, if you need some help, there are resources out there to get it but we do we have to practice honesty in the first time that we do. It's got to be with ourselves. And as you said, you know, ourselves are our best teacher. So number one, practice honesty. Number two, listen, to understand, not respond, listening to understand and that's so challenging and such a big deal in every aspect of life. The third I would say is, as we've talked about a little bit is, reflect and be grateful, you know that you know what best, you know, there's an expression out there, this, you know, you know what the best day of the year is? The best day of the year is today. Yeah, and that's true every single day, you know, we can either make today our masterpiece or our calamity, and everything is a result of the choices that we get to make. So reflecting and be grateful is the third. And finally, the fourth one, that's, you know, I think we miss a lot is that we need to think more about we, and less about me. Yeah, and I like to call this the main character syndrome, society and, and different things, you know, we think that we're the only the only person in the story a lot of folks and you know, even or if it's just, you know, me and my wife, it's my family. It's my, my, my versus our, our, our we, we we and when I think about some great stories out there any great story, right? The first one that comes to my mind is I love the fiction so much, but Harry Potter right? name implies that it's a main character, right? Harry Potter is the main character. But when we think about that, you know, without her without, or I'm sorry, in Harry Potter, without Dumbledore without the you know, friendship of Ron and Hermione Heck, even without his opposition of Voldemort, right? There are so many characters in the story. And that turns out when we really think about it, Harry Potter was not a main character at all. He's, you know, he's a character among so many. And we were just lucky enough to learn about just one of them. Right? Imagine hearing all of the stories about the rest of those people in those books. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 56:43 um, all of the books are Harry Potter. And, and I think that's really important because we are telling it from his standpoint. So he's, he's, in a sense, a main character from the standpoint of we're we're hearing his story, but it really is about everyone. It's an incredible world. Now, there's a new series, by the way, the James Potter series, and there are at least five books in that series. So it's about Harry son, at Hogwarts. And there's some really great twists in those. So if you haven't read those, those are, those are another series to look at.   57:21 Oh, I had no idea. Well, I don't want   Michael Hingson ** 57:24 to give anything away. Except, you know, let's just say McGonigal doesn't want to and isn't going to be the school mistress at Hogwarts forever. But you'll never guess who becomes the new schoolmaster at the end of the first book, or the beginning of the second book, and I'm not going to give it away. I will never guess it. It is nobody that you can think of I will tell you that right now. All   Kiefer Jone ** 57:55 right, I want to put I want to think about and I'll send you an email, you know, for our guests.   58:01 Thanks, thank you. But   Michael Hingson ** 58:04 it's a good series. But but the point really is, is that this world is composed of all of us. And we're all part of the same world under the same God. And we've got to start recognizing that it isn't just us ourselves. I always believe in doing things as a team, when I wrote thunder dog, my story of the World Trade Center and working with a guide dog, I had the great honor to work with someone else. And it was a team effort. We both worked, we both wrote, We collaborated, we both edited. And then when I did running with Roselle, which was really for kids, although more adults by it than children, because it's not a picture book. But again, we I collaborated and we're just getting ready to do a new book that the book has written, it's now in the hands of the publisher. And the publisher has actually already put out a pre order link to I guess, gauge interest. But that book is entitled live like a guide dog, stories of a blind man, his dog and his dogs about adversity. Moving forward in faith, and well, I keep blanking out on the whole sub, the whole sub title of the book, but it's adversity, overcoming challenges and moving forward in the faith. And it's it's fun. And it's about learning to control fear, learning that in reality, we all can control the things that happened to us, at least how we react to it. We don't need to be blinded by fear. And so the book is really about that because I talked for 22 years as a speaker about not being afraid going out to the World Trade Center on September 11. But when I Haven't done is taught other people that you can do the same thing. And so it's a lot of fun to do.   1:00:05 Oh, powerful, but   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:09 it is about us not Lee. And the writing is better because it's us. And everything we do is better because it's us. There's no I in team and there's a reason for that. Sorry,   Kiefer Jone ** 1:00:22 I couldn't agree more. Yeah, we, you know, it takes a village, we none of us get anywhere we are by ourselves.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:28 Right? So for you, besides writing the book, what's next in the world to do?   Kiefer Jone ** 1:00:35 Next in the world, and I think this is one of those catalysts for me, Mike? Well, this is one of those things that challenged me to say, hey, and I had to start thinking about it, you know, what do I have the ability? What do I have the ability to do right now? Where can I make an impact? And right now the answer, you know, for me, it's the Internet work, and home, right? Home is the easy one. So I listen, I reflect you know, I, if you're kind to everyone, no harm is goin

In this episode, U.S. Air Force Brigadier General John "Dragon" Teichert discusses his leadership philosophies and his post-retirement pursuits, including his new book 'Boom!' John shares his insights on the importance of integrity, service, excellence, and teamwork in leadership. He emphasizes the significance of aligning personal and organizational goals to one's greater purpose and mission. The conversation also delves into how both Jen and John use crowd-sourced feedback to elevate their work, reinforcing their belief in the power of collective wisdom.   Episode Highlights: 04:35 John Teichert's Leadership Philosophy 10:27 The Importance of Differentiation and Separation 16:02 Time Management and Productivity Tips 21:37 John Teichert's Journey to Becoming a Fighter Pilot 27:11 Understanding Leadership and Human Nature 28:17 Aligning People with Organizational Purpose 35:38 Transitioning Beyond the Military 37:11 Writing and Promoting 'Boom' 42:11 The Listen, Consider, and Act Cycle   John "Dragon" Teichert is a retired U.S. Air Force brigadier general, an inspirational leader, a keen strategist, a passionate innovator, and a national security expert. John retired as the Assistant Deputy Undersecretary of the Air Force, International Affairs, responsible for worldwide international engagement on behalf of the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Space Force while leading the services' entire $240 billion security cooperation portfolio. Prior to that, John was the Senior Defense Official and Defense Attaché to Iraq, leading on the front lines in the most challenging environment. He has been an F-15E combat pilot, an F-22 test pilot, the commander of Joint Base Andrews, and the commander of Edwards Air Force Base.   John has written and spoken extensively on leadership, innovation, technology, national security, security cooperation, cross-cultural relationships, risk management, resilience, and international affairs. He maintains a robust schedule of international-level media engagements including: The Wall Street Journal, U.S. News and World Report, PBS, Time Magazine, NewsNation, Fox News, Newsmax, War on the Rocks, Scripps News, Die Welt, The Times of Israel, Ukrainian TV, Victory News, and Voice of America.   You can connect with John in the following ways: John "Dragon" Teichert's website: johnteichert.com Pick up a copy of John's book: https://www.amazon.com/Boom-Leadership-Challenges-Convention-Innovation/dp/B0CMR4S439 John's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnteichert/  John's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JohnTeichert   Don't just listen to the podcast, it's time to take action and dominate your game!  

Some of today's top storiesA u-s military fighter jet headed to Edwards Air Force Base in Kern County - crashed in new mexico.The plane was a developmental model of the f-35 fighter jet that was being delivered by lockheed martin.      It had just taken off from albuquerque and was en route to edwards air force base when it went down.Fortunately, the pilot was able to eject safely. An investigation is underway into the cause of the crash.After weeks of sqauring off inside the courtroom, the prosecution and defense presented their closing arguments in the historic hush money trial of former president trump.Now, a jury of seven men and five women will determine whether the former president orchestrated a criminal conspiracy designed to influence the 2016 presidential election.NBC's brie Jackson has the latest from Washington.It has been more than a week now since Kern County senior deputy Ben Harmonson took his own life, outside a patrol car, near a canal north of 7th Standard Road.  Yesterday, Kern County Sheriff Donny Youngblood issued a statement regarding Harmonson's death and life of service.It reads in part:"On Tuesday, May 21st, we lost a valued member of our organization. Senior Deputy Ben Harmonson passed away unexpectedly. His passing was a shock to us all. We knew his family and his work family needed time to grieve. Ben worked for the Sheriffs Office for 16 years and was one of our best. He had numerous commendations with a common theme. He was kind. Fellow workers and citizens said he was kind. Ben will be missed for sure." "Out of respect for the family, any other information will come from them. Out of respect for Ben, be kind!Meantime, Harmonson's family's launched a Go Fund Me to help raise funeral costs.     The account says Ben Harmonson was "an incredible man who was loved by many."    The page has already blown past its goal of $8-thousand dollars, with more than $41-thousand dollars raised as of this morning. May is Mental Health Awareness month.     As we're wrapping up the past four weeks, experts say to look out for red flags when it comes to mental illness.    17's Aleeya Fitzgerald has more. 

For review:1.  Israel - Egypt Cross Border Shooting results in death of Egyptian Soldier.  Spokesperson for Egypt's military said it was carrying out an investigation “into the shooting incident in the border area in Rafah, which led to the martyrdom of one of the [security] personnel.”2. In Rafah, IDF carries out strike that kills two Senior Hamas Commanders. As a result, Israel believes shrapnel from the strike ignited a fuel  tank near tents housing Palestinian, causing civilian casualties.Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu: “Despite our efforts not to hurt them, there was a tragic mishap. We are investigating the incident."3. Sweden Permits Weapons Use in Russia.  Sweden has provided Ukraine Archer self-propelled howitzers (155mm), anti-ship missiles, and anti-tank weapons- as well as ammunition and spare parts.4. Ukraine Senior General Oleksandr Syrsky: France Sending Military Instructors to Ukraine.“I have already signed the documents that will allow the first French instructors to visit our training centers soon and get acquainted with their infrastructure and personnel."5.  International Fund for Ukraine (IFU) announces military aid worth $190 million. Allows procurement of air defense systems and maritime equipment including small boats and loitering munitions.6. Poland investing $2.5 billion into eastern border (with Belarus) infrastructure project called Shield-East.7. USAF B-21 Raider continues flight testing at Edwards Air Force Base, California.8. US Army seeking 155mm munitions to achieve 70k range. Munition must be capable of operating in GPS denied environments and compatible with current and future 155mm cannons.  Initial Operational Capability is FY30. 

Bump in the road? Indeed. Meet Pat Wetzel. Pat is a graduate from the University of Pennsylvania and Wharton Business School. She began her professional life working in the finance industry in New York City. We talk about some of that in this episode of Unstoppable Mindset and we even get Pat's take on today's economy.   Pat's life changed dramatically when she was diagnosed with a serious neurological disease myasthenia gravis. She went through a divorce and eventually reassessed her entire life. Talk about being unstoppable, to sum it up, Pat decided to continue living. She is one of the relatively few who was diagnosed but fully survived and moved on from her disease.   Along the way she discovered soaring-flying high in motorless airplanes. Soaring she began to do not only in airplanes, but with the rest of her life.   I think you will be totally inspired by Pat's story. Four years ago she began the Bump In The Road podcast and just this year she published her first book called, you guessed it, Bump In The Road. Check out Pat Wetzel's story on our episode this time and I hope you will pick up her book as well as listening to her podcast, after you listen to this one of course.     About the Guest:   Pat Wetzel, a graduate from the University of Pennsylvania and Wharton Business School, embarked on her adult journey in the bustling city of New York. Little did she know that her path would take a dramatic turn, when she was diagnosed with a serious neurological disease myasthenia gravis.  A divorce and the resulting chaos forced her to reimagine her life. A chance encounter with the sport of soaring-flying high tech motorless airplanes cross country-became the portal to unexpected adventure, leading her to soar to new heights, both metaphorically and literally. Her adventures in the air became the back drop for conquering challenges, finding courage and connecting with a greater natural world. Through her experiences, Pat Wetzel has emerged not only as an individual who is wise, but as a podcaster and author with a profound message to share. In "Bump In the Road: 15 Stories of Courage, Hope, and Resilience," she channels her unique perspective, weaving together tales of human strength and triumph. The stories, based on her weekly podcast Bump In The Road, inspire others to navigate life's bumps with hope and to find courage in the face of uncertainty. In this book, Pat's story and the story of her 15 guests is a testament to the unwavering power of the human spirit and a reminder that even amidst the bumps in the road, our potential for growth knows no bounds. ** ** Ways to connect with Pat:   Website: BumpInTheRoad.us Instagram: Instagram.com/BumpInTheRoad.us Twitter: Twitter.com/CancerRoadTrip Facebook: Facebook.com/BumpInTheRD Linked in: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patwetzel/     About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, Howdy, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I am your host, Michael Hinkson. I really am glad that you're here with us today. And today, we're going to chat with Pat Wetzel. Pat is an interesting person by any standard. She is a graduate of University of Pennsylvania and the Wharton School of Business, I'm jealous, but that's okay. She then started out working in New York. And we'll have to have a discussion about best places to buy bagels in New York. But she had a diagnosis that changed her whole life and her whole career. I'm going to leave it to her to talk more about that. And everything that follows. She is also a podcaster. She has a podcast called a bump in the road. And we'll I'm sure talk about that in the course of the day. And she's an author of a book. And guess what the book is entitled bump in the road. Anyway, Pat, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Thank you. Nice to be here. So tell me a little bit about the early Pat growing up and all that sort of stuff.   Pat Wetzel ** 02:28 Oh, early Pat. Let's see, I grew up in northern New Jersey in a town called Upper Saddle River. And it was just beautiful countryside as a kid, or as a teenager, of course, you hated it, because the only thing to do was play sports and go to school. But actually, it was really a very idyllic, my family settled deal is spent a lot of time in Europe, which gave me a rather different perspective on the world. From the time I was very young. I knew it was a big world, there were different people and cultures. And I really loved that. And I think that influence the remainder of my life in that I enjoy going into different places. And I think it also gave me a tolerance not just for differences in people and culture, but for a little bit of adventure and risk. Went to school started off in the bond market in New York back in the 80s, which was a very cool time to be in the bond market. But I received a diagnosis of myasthenia gravis, which is a very rare neurologic disease. And it causes weakness in voluntary muscles, which includes your eyes, your mouth, your tongue, the ability to breathe or walk. So it was pretty devastating. It really took my life in a direction I did not anticipate. Not a lot of upside there. But one of the good things that did come out of it was that it gave me a time to pause and get out of the rat race craze, super competitive business world. And I think I look at who I was, which really ended up more from my perspective, was kind of this from as opposed to the eat what you kill side of the spectrum, which is a little bit more market oriented.   Michael Hingson ** 04:14 So well tell me more about that. So what did you do?   Pat Wetzel ** 04:20 Really, it was survival, quite honestly. I was up in New Haven, in New Haven area. I had a thymectomy at Yale, which is where they remove your thymus, they think they're not even sure that it somehow influences the course of your disease. And indeed, there are some precancerous lesions there. So it was a it was a good move the whole way around. Initially, you're on all these drugs and you're having to titrate these drugs. And it's a matter of at first just not knowing if you're going to live about a third of the people die about a third of the people remain seriously disabled, and about a third go on in life and I was luckily in the latter group. Ah,So okay, we'll tired and things, but it's nothing major, and I'm no longer on any medication. But it um, it is quite life changing, to say the least. Yeah, I would, I would think that it would be   Michael Hingson ** 05:14 pulling, removing your thymus and just all of the various things that go along with that it has to be not a very fun thing, do you still go get checkups on any kind of regular basis?   Pat Wetzel ** 05:26 No, interestingly, when I started flying, fast forward a decade or so, when I started flying,I was having full time trading my drugs, and one of the problems is having too much in your system gives you the same symptoms as having too little. So you never know you're ahead or behind. So I decided to start weaning myself off my drugs. I did this without medical supervision, I do not recommend anybody do it, no doctor would have taken the risk. But I decided to do it. And indeed, it worked. I might get a little tired or whatnot, I can manage that. And that was really the end of my interface with the medical establishment for that period of my life. Wow. Well, so. So let's go back. So you started in the bond market in the 1980s. Of course, we had the recession in the 1980s, and all the economic things. So typically, as interest rates, well, so as interest rates go up, does that mean that usually bonds go down or they go up, they go down in terms of value, the thing that was really interesting in the corporate market was that all the previous parameters for risk assessment were no longer viable, because the interest rate environment had changed so drastically. So there were new models being created, the rating rating agencies were just so far behind the curve, they weren't very useful in terms of assessing any risk. And it was a very interesting time in that.If you remember, Michael Milken, he really changed the face of corporate finance, in that he made capital accessible to mid tier companies, they never had access to this type of capital before. So it was a really interesting time period financially, but for the aberrations of these incredibly high interest rates, and for the fact that the access to capital was dramatically changing, for much of corporate America. So fast forward, out of curiosity, just to go off of the, the timeline to today. For the past few years, economists have been talking about how we're going to go through this incredibly high level of inflation and, and it's gonna it's gonna cause unemployment as we raise the interest rates to go up. And the reality is that and I was reading an article by Paul Krugman, this morning from the New York Times, a lot of what people predicted just didn't happen at all. What do you think about all that? I think the economy is proven to be a little more resilient than we thought. But I also think government numbers are pretty useless. Years ago, when the numbers made no sense to me, I found a website called Shadow stats.com, which is by math economist. His numbers made sense. The government has revamped their numbers. So many times there's no continuity in terms of trying to ascertain what's actually going on. I think you are starting to see more layoffs. I think that our economy personally is fairly brittle and fragile. i What's going to be the event that said something's off. But if you look at say, banking, everybody's underwater in their bond portfolio, commercial real estate market is plummeted. There was recently a building in San Francisco that I think assessed for 40 or 50% of its value just five years ago. And it's happening in numerous urban areas. The economy is really slow to react to these large changes. It's been slower than I thought it would be. Look at the housing market, for example, interest rates are at 8%. They weren't 3% A few years ago, that's a 5%. That's a 5% change. Typically, the rule of thumb is you see about a 1% 10% change in valuation for every 1% move in interest rates. Well, that would argue for close to a 50% change in market, the market value of real estate assets, but you're not seeing that in a lot of places. I think that we need to be a little patient. I think there are a few things impacting it. And it varies by locale, of course, the media usually oversimplifies so many things and I think they also tend to miss characterize a lot of things. So we were hearing about all this business of inflation. And people keep being told by a lot of politicians that inflation is really high and all that and the prices are really high. Krugman made an interesting observation this morning and which was just because inflation is going down, up there.   Michael Hingson ** 10:00 It's not something that directly and certainly immediately controls prices. So inflation may be going down, but we are paying more. And just because inflation drops, that doesn't mean that suddenly we're going to pay less for things.   Pat Wetzel ** 10:14 Well, I would argue that that, first of all, go back to the argument that the government numbers for mission are pretty useless. For example, I went into Trader Joe's the other day, and a chicken breast, that rather turkey breast that I bought a year ago ran about $25. It's $50. Now.And I think that the average person going out and having to pay for just the things that we need to I think we would all argue that interest rates have probably been more in the 15% up range. Rather, if price inflation has been 18 Plus, if not more in certain categories. Yeah. And I would also submit that again,   Michael Hingson ** 10:56 the numbers are are all over the place. And that's I'm agreeing with you, I think that we're not really seeing   Pat Wetzel ** 11:02 something yet, that's really consistent that that really tells us what is going on. But I also think that too many people are politicizing it, rather than trying to come up with a real solution. Nobody wants to do that. They want to just blame everyone else for it. Yeah, I agree with that. And you know, it always comes down in my mind, you said, you have to live within your means. It's okay to borrow with it. But you can't get over your head and debt. There's no free lunch here. I think even the Fed is now coming out and saying that the spending out of Washington is absolutely out of control. That's by the heart. It's not political. It's just reality. And I think that I think we need to return to a saner way of living in personally, I think this model of perpetual growth may not be sustainable, you can't grow forever. Right.   Michael Hingson ** 11:59 Not without something else changing in the process, we had a fair amount of credit card debt over a number of years. And my wife, once we moved down here really decided we need to, to not be so much in credit card debt, and literally over about a four or five year period. And she handled all the bills every day was in QuickBooks and quicken and everything else and looking at everything. But you know what, we now don't owe anything on credit cards, except for whatever is due in a given month. And she passed away this past November. And when I decided to do to make sure we don't get in trouble like that, again, was to set every credit card that we have that we use, and we're not even I'm not even using all the ones that we have available. But what I have done is to set them for automatic payment to pay off the entire balance every month. So it really forces me too. And I don't mind doing it at all stay within means and the main thing we do with credit cards, other than going to Costco and buying food every so often is it's all about business. So it's easy, because we have mechanisms to get reimbursed for a lot of the stuff I do for business. So we get to pay everything back and I agree with you, we need to live within our means. For a while we had some challenges and weren't able to do that. That's been a number of years. And so now we will I just make sure that we don't accrue any credit card debt because it's got to be paid off every month.   Pat Wetzel ** 13:38 And with you there isn't any material thing I have to have. I just don't need it.   Michael Hingson ** 13:45 If there's something I need to have that I've got to save for it. I have wanted a Sonos subwoofer to get bass on my audio system for years, and the son of subwoofers like 800 bucks. That's a fair amount of money. Yeah, but it does sound good, but I wanted it. But I wasn't going to spend the money for it. Until it suddenly I realized that for my business credit card. I accrue points, and I had like almost 1000 points. And so what it really meant was that the subwoofer, because I just suddenly one day on a whim, decided to look in the catalog of of items sold through this point system, and they had the Sonos subwoofer, and it was like 800 points. So I got my subwoofer and it didn't cost anything, which is great. Hey, that's wonderful. And I needed to use some of those points for something. And now they're they're growing again and probably what I'll do is wait and save up for an iPhone. Because for me like with iPhones, I don't need to have the latest and greatest one. And the reality is that the current iPhone On the iPhone 15 is good and has made some significant advances. But the thing that they publicize the most, of course, is the camera, which I don't really care as much about. So I'll probably wait for the 16 before I go off and make a purchase, no one has given me yet compelling reasons why, for my iPhone experience, it would be great to upgrade to the 15 from the 13. Somebody might come along and convince me and if that happens, great, but, you know, I do think we need to live within our means and being very conscious about it. It is certainly something I want to continue. And I and I know that for some people, it's hard, because they don't have the income. But we do have a lot of open jobs. And I wish we could figure out a way to convince people that maybe we need to take different jobs, and maybe we want to take but we can learn and we can at least earn an income. I think with any job you can always learn. And I think that learning is invaluable. Because you've learned something, you take that knowledge board with you, wherever you go, nobody can ever take it from you. Yeah. Well, so you went through challenges and that obviously had to help shape your, your view of things. So what happened after myasthenia gravis, and so on? And what did you What did you do to move forward? Well, I went through a very difficult and it was an interesting period of time, I call it my life wish death wish period.   Pat Wetzel ** 16:31 Obviously, I wanted to live, but I have lost everything that ever mattered to me. My in laws, who I loved dearly, my ex husband, who I loved, everybody was just on. And I really just didn't care about what happened. And the thing that's interesting about that, is I became somewhat fearless. And I started learning to fly sail planes. And I eventually ended up buying a high performance sail plane, which of course, I didn't know how to fly, I would have to figure that out since it was a single seat plane. But it was a very interesting period in my life. And I think that experience of being fairly fearless is something I want to take forward with me. So you went through a divorce and all that was because of the myasthenia gravis or other kinds of forces? You know, I'm not going to speak for my ex.   17:27 Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 17:29 It's, it's unfortunate, you know, things, things change. And sometimes we just aren't willing to change with it. But I don't know what what happened in your case. I know, for Karen and me, we live together, we were married for 40 years, she's always been in a wheelchair. And I've always been blind, we have undergone changes in our lives, a lot of economic challenges, job issues for a while. And of course, for me as a as a blind person, in fact, for her, but probably more for me.The difficulty in applying for a job is that so many people say well, you're blind, you can't do the job. And the prejudice is run really deep. And so for a while, the job I had was actually I ran my own company. And all of my employees were paid before I was paid. And so for actually three years, we mostly lived on credit cards. And that's all we could do. Because we had employees that we had to pay. And eventually, we did okay. And we sold the company and I went to work for other companies. And we came out of that. And again, eventually we were really able to pay off bills, but it really tests you. And it's a question of how much you're committed to staying with someone just because change has happened. And I think both Karen and I, at various times, had changes in our lives. But we made a strong commitment to stay with each other. And we did. So Karen got sick and 2014 we moved down here, which we never thought we were going to do. And she almost died. She was in the 40% that didn't pass away from double pneumonia with a 90% occlusion of her lungs. And she survived that. But still it it had a great toll on on both of us. But you make the decision to go forward. And she and I did. We talked about it a lot. And we we came through it. And it's all you can do. Well, I'm clapping for you. I think that's a difficult thing to do. And I think that it's the harder path but probably the path where you learn an awful lot. Well it is. I think you you learn a lot more if you are willing to do it and you go back to basic things. We made a commitment in November of 1982 to live with each other and stay married and in sickness and in health and and in money and not all that wasn't really part of the Vows but it was still there. And so we did. But you know, I can appreciate that there are always challenges that come up. And sometimes you have to deal with things. And in your case you you did lose a lot. But you've obviously worked and gone in other directions, right?   Pat Wetzel ** 20:16 Yeah, very interestingly, originally, way back when everybody thought I would write, and I'd love to read, I love to write. But I took the more practical path. Now, fast forward several decades, and I'm doing what I originally really wanted to do. You know, with a podcast, I'd have interesting, meaningful conversations every week. It's fabulous. And I'm working on my second book now bump in the road strong women. And it's, it's wonderful. It's a lot of work sometimes, but I really welcome it. And do you can always write another book called a bumpy road. But that's another story. There are no bumps in any one.   Michael Hingson ** 21:01 We need others. We could always talk about the pothole in the road. Just another thought, the pothole in the road instead of the bump in the road.   Pat Wetzel ** 21:12 Might zoom background, I have this curving road. And somebody said that I the curving road and the twists and turns just as not sufficient that I should actually blow the bridge up. Because that would give a much better sense of what is really like, well, you could have an automated background so every so often, it blows up.   Michael Hingson ** 21:34 That reminds me of the old original Addams Family, remember when Gomez Addams would always run the trains and would blow  all up? And so just saying that's another thought. Have an automated background and blow up the bridge every so often. I'll work on that. Yeah, there's something to consider. But you so so you have your own business now or what? Well, the the podcasts the book and I'm starting to do public speaking. Okay. And so does the podcast generate income for you, you must have a way of doing an income or have you done some of those suspicious bank robberies we don't know anything about.   Pat Wetzel ** 22:15 I bet they talk about my suspicious bank robberies, if you don't mind. But I'm the podcast is about breaks even. And obviously, the books in new revenue stream,   Michael Hingson ** 22:29 say that podcasting and writing books for most people is not a huge income stream, at least not individually. Right. How long have you been doing the podcast now? I'm going on my fourth year. Wow. That's pretty exciting. And yeah, I snuck out what's the average? What's the average failure rate or time to failure? For POCs? I think three or four months? Yeah, I think so. We're now two and a half. Well, almost two and a half years into unstoppable mindset. And we actually went from one episode a week to two episodes a week last year, because we were getting so much attention. And people said we want to be on the podcast. So we actually now do two episodes a day a week. And literally today this will tell people about when we're recording, we just upped uploaded and published episode 177. So we're having a lot of fun with it. And people are very kind and we have been getting great reviews and people say nice things. So I guess I can't complain too much.   Pat Wetzel ** 23:34 No, I think podcasting is just fabulous. I really do. I am so grateful for the people I meet, I meet the most interesting people. And because we're talking about their bumps in the road, we have meaningful conversations. And that means a great deal to me. Yeah, well, and with unstoppable mindset, as you know, I asked people to tell me what they want to talk about. And that's what we talk about, which is perfectly sensible. Because you don't want you want to talk about and can talk about a whole heck of a lot more than I do. And I think it's important to have conversations and not just do an interview. So this is a lot of fun to do. And, you know, having been on bump in the road, it's a lot of fun to thanks, I I'm very thankful for bump, it really came out of a bump in the road. And it has been, I think one of the most interesting paths I have taken in my life.   Michael Hingson ** 24:31 So why did you do it? What what really prompted you to start doing the podcast?   Pat Wetzel ** 24:37 I had lined up about a million dollars for a project I was working on called cancer road trip, where every quarter we would give seven people who've been impacted by cancer and amazing bucket list trip. The first trip was Tanzania. So we were looking at you know, Kilimanjaro, the metaphor of a mountain Safari and the metaphor of survival, Tanzania and the spice of life. that type of thing to tell stories against these iconic backups, but COVID hit. So everything shut down everything. Two years, and all the money I put into it were gone. So after being fairly depressed for about two weeks, I needed to do something, yeah, you can only eat so many potato chips, you know. So I decided I need to do something, and if nothing else, just to keep my social media audience that I had developed in place. So I decided to do a podcast, and the idea of a bump in the road came to me. And I didn't know if it would work. I didn't know if I could get anybody. I had no idea what would happen. I knew nothing about podcasting. But I dove in. And here I am, you know, three plus years later going into my fourth year. You do in addition to this, and the fact that you wrote a book and you're writing a new book, do you do any kind of coaching or consulting? Or do you strictly do the podcast and the book, right now I'm working on keynote, a keynote speech, speech, that can be adapted for a variety of environments, I really want to if I prepare enough, I actually enjoy public speaking. And I'm looking forward to combining some fun travel and some speaking over the next year and a half or so. Yeah, home speaking is starting to pick up again, since Karen passed, I now have the time to do it again as well. And now I don't have to worry about leaving her up. So I've started to work on trying to find more speaking engagements and to be able to inspire people. And the reality is there's a lot that we can inspire people about and we can certainly set a tone and a trend. So I look forward to to doing more public speaking again, and we're working on it, it's coming up.   Michael Hingson ** 26:54 I actually had an email correspondence with someone yesterday about possibly speaking at an event for them next year, and it was not a person I knew. But I wrote a letter. And it turns out that she read it almost immediately. And she wrote back and I was was humorous in the letter to a degree because apparently she was in a building for a while that burned down. And I said, a building that your building burned down. What a way to force people to work remotely rather than being in the office. Pretty clever way to do it. And she wrote back actually saw it this morning, she said, your letter came right at the right time. It was a down day yesterday, and you really brighten my day. But you know, I think that that's kind of the part of me. I love humor. Not in a negative way. But I love humor. And I love to try to get people to smile and laugh. Every time I go through a TSA kiosk and meet the TSA people. They always say, Where's your I need your boarding pass and your ID and I'll give him the boarding pass. I say but I need your ID and I said what did you do lose yours? You know, things like that. And they say, Oh, they have they have? Or during COVID When it was at a time when I would be wearing a mask? And I still do. But I would also say What do you mean, you want my ID? I'm wearing a mask? How are you going to be able to tell who I am? Oh, we're going to ask you to take your mask off. And I said, Well, I'm still just going to look like this piece of paper. What does that do for you? Yeah, but it's it's all about making them laugh. And I think it's important. Humor, in a good way has to be part of what we do. Because like with those people, it's such a thankless job, you know? Well, I think humor is important a lot. It gives you a little perspective. And life is short, enjoy it, enjoy the ride. And I think part of enjoying it is having a sense of humor. Otherwise, how do you survive? Yeah, it's important to be able to laugh at things and laugh at yourself, and help other people laugh because it is so hard to do. And we live in such a serious world. Today, with so many things going on. We need to find ways to lighten up and smile. So you know, I think it is really important. Can you tell us anything about what your keynote is, is looking like it will be about   Pat Wetzel ** 29:23 your strong women. My next book is a bump in the road strong women. I've interviewed some amazing women. And that's what I'm going to focus on.   29:33 Well,   Pat Wetzel ** 29:35 I'm really looking forward to it. Do you have a publisher? Or are you self publishing? Or how are you doing the books, self published and I've looked at the publishing options. So the reality is to get a top notch publisher, you have to be famous, essentially, I have about 80,000 people on my social media following and frankly, that doesn't even turn anybody's head anymore. If you go the hybrid route I interviewed and now   Pat Wetzel ** 29:59 number of well known publishers for the hybrid route. And reality is I'm doing more than they would do to market my books right now.   Michael Hingson ** 30:11 So I don't think that they bring a lot of value to the equation. So for the moment, I think self publishing looks like a way for me to go, Well, yeah, publishing in general, doesn't do the marketing in the stuff that it used to do. And they do want you to be a major contributor to the marketing effort if they publish your book at all. And I think it's possible to get books published, and there's value in using a publisher, if you can get them to read your book.   Michael Hingson ** 30:41 But at the same time, not everyone can do that, or wants to put that time into the marketing effort, which, which is part of the challenge. I think there are a lot of great books out there. My belief is everyone has a story to tell. And I wish more people would tell their stories, which is why we have unstoppable mindset. And you have   Pat Wetzel ** 31:00 likewise bump in the road? Absolutely. I, I think people's stories are amazing. I think we can learn so much each other. And it can really expedite our own learning curves, if we will just stop and really listen and feel. Because when you feel that wisdom seeps into you, it permeates you in a way that just a superficial story won't. Will Tell me a little bit more about bump in the road, when when did you publish it? And what's it about? Published in us just a September, so it's fairly new, we did hit Amazon Best Selling status, which was great. But I a bump in the road really came about because after about a little over a year, maybe years of doing the podcast, I was so moved, and so taken by the stories of my guests, that this wisdom just had a share. And I had a fairly unique perspective on all these stories. Because I have a 30,000 foot view, I hear everybody's story. And across all these stories, I see all these common elements that permeate them. And I thought, there's just so much to learn here from all these people. So that was the the orig origin of bump in the road, the initial book was twice as long as it is now. I had to cut it down. I probably have material for about 10 books, I just have to find the time to write them at this point. Yeah, well, you know, it's only so much one could do in a day, or you just have to work faster.   Pat Wetzel ** 32:32 Well, actually, you were talking about doing publishing twice a week in your podcast. But podcast is bumped through the spring of 2024 At this point, and I'm beginning to feel as though that's rude. I don't want people to wait because their stories are great. And I've been thinking that maybe what I need to do is, if possible, work harder to open up some time actually to write more.   32:54 Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 32:56 it is. It's valuable. We we wrote thunder dog and Susie flora and I did thunder dog. And it was published in 2011. And we were very blessed that Thomas Nelson publishing, took it on. They're the largest   Michael Hingson ** 33:11 Christian publisher in the world. Now they're part of HarperCollins.   Michael Hingson ** 33:15 And that has been a great relationship that has now gone on for 12 years. And I can't complain very much about any of that. They've been very supportive, and it continues to go well. Then we did self published running with Roselle. That was the second book. And that was more for kids, talking about what it's like to be a blind child growing up and a guide dog growing up, and then we meet and we ended up in the World Trade Center. But it wasn't nearly as much about the World Trade Center. But I've experienced both. We're writing a new book about learning to control fear. And we do have a publisher for that. And I expect we'll get some good things out of that. So it's it's pretty cool.   Pat Wetzel ** 33:58 That's interesting learning to control fear. What are some of the key factors in that?   Michael Hingson ** 34:05 I think the biggest thing is that we need to recognize that most of what we're afraid of is stuff that we can't control. And we just talk ourselves into a being afraid. And we've never learned how to stop fearing things. unexpected things happen are happening in our lives. And yes, there are physiological things that occur. But at the same time, what what we can do   Michael Hingson ** 34:29 is learn that fear is a very powerful tool. So I learned all that I could about what to do in the World Trade Center and how to function in the World Trade Center, what the emergency evacuation procedures were, and so on. And the result of all that was when an emergency actually did happen. I knew what to do. And I knew and I didn't even think about the fact that I was creating a mindset for that. As I was studying everything I could have   Michael Hingson ** 34:59 At the World Trade Center where things were, I love to tell people you could drug me in the World Trade Center and take me anywhere and drop me off. And when I woke up, I would know where I was within like about five seconds, because I knew the complex, I didn't need to read signs. And I think that's something that everyone needs to do is I create ppreciate eyesight, I value it.   Michael Hingson ** 35:21 But I also think that we spend too much time relying just on eyesight, and not our other senses. And the fact of the matter is that fear is something that often comes up because we think that things are unknown, that don't need to be unknown. So we don't really look at why we're afraid of things, we don't tend to be introspective, we don't tend to analyze. And those are all things that we should do, and learn, most important of all, only to worry about the things that we really can control and not worry about the rest, because it's not going to do us any good. That's true. I don't What do you think? How do you feel after you've moved through fear? What do you think some of the lessons are from overcoming fear? Well, I think of course, it depends on exactly what the situation is. But I think the important thing is that when you're afraid of something, or something happens, that causes you to be afraid, there will come a time when you're going to as you just pointed out, move through the fear, right? And what you need to do is to then stop and take the time, even if it's before you go to sleep at night, but take the time to look at why was I afraid? What was really going on? Did I really need to be afraid of this? And yes, there are certainly times where that is an issue when something happens that is is what would would cause a fear reaction. But most of the time, the things that we're afraid are going to happen, never do. But we tend to build up this fear. And we never then go back and look at why was I really afraid of that what what really is the motivator that I need to look at and re address so that I'm not afraid of that in the future. So I think it is an issue that, you know, that we do need to look at. But we we also have grown up so much not learning about how to deal with fear. And we live in a society today where people are learning not to trust each other or anyone. And that's why it's our third book is being called Live like a guide dog. Dogs love unconditionally. But dogs do not trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people are, is that dogs are unless something really horrible has happened to them. Dogs are open to trust. And we should find better ways to be open to trust. If somebody doesn't earn our trust, that's fine, then you don't deal with that. But we we are even open to dealing with trust, and the possibility that we can trust someone because we figure everybody has their own agendas. I think trust is really important. My favorite trust story actually comes from Mary Neal, who's in my book. She's an orthopedic surgeon, she ran the Spine Center at USC. And she and her husband were kayaking and Chile, as she went over a waterfall was well within her ability range, but she got trapped underneath it and she died. Her story is this is a near death experience story.   Pat Wetzel ** 38:27 Once she finally made it back to Jackson Hole through a remarkable series of coincidences, she was very badly hurt, she had to heal. And she's studying or trying to convince herself that her near death experience did not happen. Because she was a linear tangible scientist, who could if you see measure it, surely it doesn't exist. And at the end of that, she realized that her spiritual experience was indeed very real. And she as she says, and I just love this, she moved from hope to trust.   Pat Wetzel ** 39:01 What an incredible paradigm shift in how you view the world, and how you view your spirituality.   Michael Hingson ** 39:09 Yeah. And, and it makes perfect sense that the problem with science, to some degree, is as you said, if you can't measure it, it can't be so even though now we've learned to measure or observe things that we never did before. And we've learned that maybe things aren't quite as we think. But But science also tends to,   Michael Hingson ** 39:36 as you said, be very linear and linear. And the reality is the world isn't linear. Now, I think the world is has many mysteries to show us yet. Yeah. And that's what makes it fun. I've always loved the internet, because the internet is such a treasure trove of information. And it's fun to just go exploring and learning about different things in the internet and for me how   Michael Hingson ** 39:59 Be not seen my entire life,   Michael Hingson ** 40:03 I find the internet a really fun place to go and experience a lot of things that I never otherwise probably would have been able to experience. It is an alternative that makes data available to me.   Pat Wetzel ** 40:17 I agree as it was interesting, I was having a conversation earlier with somebody who asked me how I found the guests for my podcast. And I'm very fortunate now that people contact me all the time. And I don't have to look as I did. But I really enjoy the process of looking for guests. Because it takes me off on these explorations, I would never think of   Pat Wetzel ** 40:41 people whose paths otherwise I would never crossed. And it can just be from going down a rabbit hole on the internet, you run an interesting person, and they're just somebody you have to meet. I find the web just fascinating in that regard. Yeah, well, and I have found that with LinkedIn, and the Internet and and other things as well. And it's so fun when you get to meet somebody whose experiences are different than you. I tell people all the time, as far as I'm concerned, if I'm not learning as much, from my guess, as anyone else, that I'm not doing my job? Well, I think meeting people is a learning experience. And I think part of the key to learning is learning to listen, I've been on a little bit of a rant about this lately, on my side trips, which are super short podcasts under five minutes.   Pat Wetzel ** 41:32 I, I one of the things I would love to convey to people is learn to tell a good story.   Pat Wetzel ** 41:40 Telling a story is making it experiential. I mean, if you go on a trip, don't bore me with a litany of I do this, I did that I saw this, I saw that I did like this. Instead, tell me about an experience. Tell me about a fabulous meal, an incredible location. Tell me something experiential. You know, the best salespeople in the world are people who tell stories, and who get you to relate to their product and what they want to talk with you about by telling stories. Now, it still may be that what they have, isn't going to do the best for you. And they should be honest about that as well. But good salespeople tell stories, and that always enhances what they do, and what you learn from it. I think stories are incredibly powerful. And our personal stories are powerful, they're inspiring. I think that they are so full of wisdom, that it it puts all of us to stop and listen to each other because we just might learn something. And we might just find some real empathy for other people's.   Michael Hingson ** 42:50 The other thing that I would say is and you're talking about creating a keynote address, put stories in it. I'm sure that's not magic to you. But I think that it's important for people to relate to you. And they'll do that best with stories. I have always believed that I don't talk to an audience. When I go speak, I talk with an audience. And I look to see how they react to different things that I say. And I've learned how things that I talk about when I'm talking about them, affect people. And I've learned how much of relationship and rapport I've been able to establish with audiences by how they react to different things that I say it takes a breath or whatever. And I think that that's so important. I heard a speech once by someone who was talking about one subject relating to September 11. And they just went down this list of people. And they talked for 20 minutes, but there was no story. It was one of the one of the most boring things that I've ever heard.   Michael Hingson ** 44:01 And I've heard some people I've attended some speeches, where people are talking about financial things, people in the financial industry, and how boring they are because they're just reciting facts and figures. And don't do anything to relate to the average audience. I think that's very true. I was listening to somebody talk about a financial book they wrote recently. Oh my god, I just had to get the combination. It was so boring. I just   Pat Wetzel ** 44:30 and there were no stories just as you're saying.   Michael Hingson ** 44:34 So   Michael Hingson ** 44:36 what's the the format or what is what is the book bump in the road?   Pat Wetzel ** 44:41 The format are it's 15 stories about remarkable people. And each of those people represent a theme there some some of the themes would certainly be courage. Hers take a different path.   Pat Wetzel ** 44:56 Oh, they're just a travel is a theme in it   44:59 today   Pat Wetzel ** 45:00 is a big theme. I think authenticity actually is a theme that shows up in each and every story. I think each person after hitting a bump in the road, really pause to search for what is the right path forward for them. And each person finds a unique way to do that. Authenticity is a really interesting thing. And you have said that quieting your mind is a very important thing to deal with. When you're addressing personal authenticity. Why is that? I think learning to quiet your mind is first a totally learnable skill, found the most profound skills you can ever learn, and you need it in your arsenal. Because until you can learn to quiet your mind, still in peace internally, you can't learn to listen or observe your thoughts. Otherwise, your your mind just runs and runs and runs. And often the thoughts that occur to you may really be thoughts that are planted by you know, your societal surroundings, your parents, your employer, the expectations of life around you. But when you can learn to be still you can learn to observe your, your thoughts, and when ability comes awareness. Now you can consciously choose your thoughts. And that awareness is astonishing, it really gives you choice, at least a reflection. Personally, I'm a big fan of meditation to achieve that. And an hour of meditation is that it's experiential. That's where it really changes your life. And that's where learning occurs. There's joy and magic in endless silence, and there's profound peace. And once you experience that peace, it's not a no, it's not an intellectual thing. It's a heartfelt knowing that there is this piece that is always there, and always accessible. And you bring that all of a sudden into your everyday life, you know, road rage, who needs it, who cares, you have peace with you. It's really life changing. And there's so many different ways to meditate. You can use sound, it might be in sport, it could be in walking, it could be in gardening, it can be in sitting, I really fan, I really urge everybody to explore how meditation might be been might be beneficial for your life. And there, you've answered the question about controlling fear to a very large degree. If you stop and listen to yourself, and really are willing to take that step back, you'll learn so much that you'll never learn any other way. I've been a very great fan the last few months of saying Not that I'm my own worst critic when I think about things, but I'm my own best teacher. Because really, I'm the only one who can teach me other people can offer information. But I'm the only one that can really teach it to me. And I much prefer the positivity of I'm my own best teacher. And if people would really take the time to silence and step back, and listen. It's amazing how much you'll learn.   Pat Wetzel ** 48:04 And I think ultimately, the this road trip called Life is ideally a trip towards ever greater authenticity. And that demands that you stop and listen and make conscious choices about how you react, how you see things, and then ultimately be open to a broader world, and open to new experiences that can also help change and mold you.   Michael Hingson ** 48:29 Who are some of your favorite guests from a bump in the road.   Pat Wetzel ** 48:35 Every single one of them, I really can't pick a favorite.   Pat Wetzel ** 48:39 One that I thought was really very powerful was Effie Parks's story. She's a mom, and she was pregnant and happy and excited for the perfect child who's going to grow up and be a star and be an astronaut and whatnot. And our child was born with some very nice genetic defects. It was a tremendously isolating experience for her because as her friend's children grew, her her son, person the same way, and she had a 24/7 responsibility with a very disabled child. And her story really changed when she just found love in her situation. And finding that love just changed everything about her outlook and her perspective. And I love that story. Because I think it's a story for all of us. And I think it's a very profound story about how our perspective really shapes the way we view the world and how we have choice in how we view the world. So   Michael Hingson ** 49:41 in thinking about that, she found meaning in what she was doing, why is it really important to find the meaning of life for you? I think everybody needs to have meaning. Otherwise, what is the point   Pat Wetzel ** 49:55 are really just floating through through life and then we die. I think that   Pat Wetzel ** 50:00 You need meaning to motivate you, to help you get up every morning to rest, to learn to achieve capabilities in different areas, I think meaning is one of the critical pieces of a well lived life, though a bump in the road is all about a bump in the road of life.   Michael Hingson ** 50:21 And how do you navigate? What are some of the keys to navigating bumps in the road? Now? That's a great question.   Pat Wetzel ** 50:30 I think one of the themes, there are numerous themes. Certainly one is courage, we talked about fear earlier, be willing to face your fear and move through it. I think authenticity is a very an identity are very strong themes. I think these people had to look at their lives, strip away the pieces of them that no longer worked, and find a new person underneath it, find their most authentic person, and move forward with that. And generally, they were committed to really continuing that type of internal dialogue and practice as life went on.   Pat Wetzel ** 51:08 I think that one of the reasons I am fascinated by the idea of a bump in the road is What does teach us to navigate this, we all have to figure it out for ourselves. And that's a little crazy, there really are certain things that we can do, such as having courage, such as being willing to strip away these false identities that we all have, as a result of just moving through this side.   Pat Wetzel ** 51:32 I think that as we listen to each other stories, we can just learn so much, so much about these bumps. And I think it all comes down to willing to be open to change. A lot of people don't really change, they like the status quo, they like the comfort of being in their comfort zone. But the reality is the magic outside your comfort zone that the magic is. And the magic is in the present moment. Because in that moment, you can make a change. And you can then sculpt that the next moment, and the next. And that means getting out of your mind, getting into your heart getting into the present. And I think that's a lesson about how to blow these bumps. And the reality is, so what does that really do? It widens your comfort zone, and you learn to be more comfortable than you were before with a with a broader perspective, which makes perfect sense.   Pat Wetzel ** 52:29 And I think, as you bought in your comfort zone, and as you go through that type of activity again and again, you become more and more open to this amazing world we live in.   Michael Hingson ** 52:40 And it really is an amazing world. It's an incredible place where there is so much that we get to explore and so much that we get to do.   Michael Hingson ** 52:50 I, I get very frustrated so often because people are so I'm curious.   Michael Hingson ** 52:58 After September 11, I thought this was an amazing story. One of the things that I did the next month was I went to British Columbia to speak to a guided group. And they arranged for me to do some different interviews on Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, television. And I was on one show, but before the show, I was in the green room with several people, including somebody from a major Think Tank, who was a past Prime Minister of Canada.   Michael Hingson ** 53:28 And this was just after we, in the United States invaded Afghanistan. And so I asked this person, what do you think of George W. Bush? And they paused for a second and then said,   Michael Hingson ** 53:45 the real thing about him is he's the most uncurious person that I've ever met and ever knew. He relies on everyone and doesn't ever really explore for himself. I never expected that kind of an answer, but I can appreciate it. And it's so true for so many of us. We just don't explore for ourselves. We just take what people tell us and then we go on. I think that's very true. And I think cultivating curiosity should be high on everyone's list. Because it opens opens doors you would never expect. Oh, absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 54:23 I remember my father when we lived in Chicago was a TV repairman. He and my uncle owned a shop. And he said to me a few times when I was there and they were working on TVs he said no, don't stick your hands inside the TV because you'll get a shock. And I don't think I ever deliberately did it. But I got close enough a couple of times that I did get a shock.   Michael Hingson ** 54:45 I only used one hand   Michael Hingson ** 54:48 and and he said you know what did I tell you? And I said Well, I I didn't say anything I said yeah. He said let me unplug it and then you can look inside and he unplugged it and made sure things were discharged. I got to look   Michael Hingson ** 55:00 inside of a television, which back in those days was all about vacuum tubes and other things. So as before, as they say TV went dark, and it was all transistors, but he encouraged curiosity. And I think that that's so important that we all need to encourage curiosity. And also, I realize it's gotta be a real tough world for kids right now. And parents need to recognize you can't helicopter your kids, you can't shelter your kids, you can watch. But you got to let kids grow up. I read an article a couple of weeks ago, that was talking about what's the most important thing that we can do for children today? And the answer basically, was let kids explore, it doesn't mean that you don't monitor them. But we have to find ways to let children explore and learn more about the world. And I understand there's a lot of terrifying things out there. But if we don't let children explore, they're never going to learn. And this article pointed out that all they do is they grew up being afraid.   Pat Wetzel ** 56:00 You know, I think that's true, we're probably close to the same age. And when we were growing up, nobody wore helmets, we rolled in the dirt. You know, we just didn't have this fear, that seems to be bred into a lot of young people today. And I would wish for anybody who's young, to please pursue whatever interests you. And you have so much at your disposal, at this disposable. Everything on the web, my gosh, you can learn almost any these days, it's it's just remarkable. And you as a young person, your mind is so agile and open, quit, pursue whatever it is that spins your wheels. I do think that in reality, things like wearing a helmet that you mentioned, and other things are important. Because if you are in an accident, and they will help protect you, but you shouldn't do it out of fear. You should do it because we've learned how to advance and use tools and technology to help us be better and stay safer. It. It shouldn't be done out of fear, though. And that's the problem.   Pat Wetzel ** 57:12 Oh, I agree with but I'll also throw in one other thing. There's nothing like the wind moving through your hair. Yep. As your race down a hill. It's fun. It's exhilarating. It connects you to the world around you. So I think that there's a place for safety. And I think there's a place for risks. Oh, absolutely. No question about that. But But I think that one, they're not mutually exclusive. And one doesn't preclude the other and you just need to, to be wise about what you do. Tell me a little bit more about you and sail planning. That is a lot of fun.   Pat Wetzel ** 57:51 I kind of stumbled into it. To tell you the truth. I never expected to fly. But I was on a cross country trip. And I stopped at the Calistoga This was back Oh around 89 or so. And back then we'll country was still. It wasn't as polished as it is now. And Cal Stoeger was kind of a dumpy little town at the north end Valley. And I noticed that there was a runway and airport runway that intersected the Main Street. And I thought this is so strange. And so I went over to check it out. They had glider rides. So I took the ride in really well me that it was okay, but didn't allow me. Went back got back. And I heard about some lawyers of poor flying South Plains on weekends. And I invited myself out for a three day weekend. And I was hooked. And that was just the beginning of the end. I went on to move to another club. That was very competitive. Everybody had these beautiful high tech planes. I got it a plane. And I learned to I really learned to soar. It's a metaphor, and it's a sport. How far have you sort? That is? What's the longest flight you've been able to take? Oh, gosh, I'll say about 500 kilometers. Wow. And what do you do with the end of it? Do you? Do you turn around or do somebody come pick you up? Or what hope you land at the same airport? Oh, all right. So you go in a circle, you're not going in a straight line? Well, you can somebody a lot of people do straight out flights. I mean, there's it's it becomes a sport after a point where you're going for time you're going for distance you might go for altitude.   Pat Wetzel ** 59:35 And the other challenges in them I think in general with cross country soaring. Part of the challenge and the risk is getting back to your home airport. Because if you land out when I was flying, I started playing in the 90s before cellphones. So when you landed out, you didn't have GPS, you didn't know exactly where you were. You didn't have a phone. You had to make sure your plane was you know   Pat Wetzel ** 1:00:00 saved, then you had a hike out, find a phone somewhere. Hopefully they knew where you were, call back to the airport hope somebody picked up the phone and hope that some people would come and get you and help disassemble the plane and get it out of what field he lived in.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:19 Landed in. So it was really been an adventure on a number of levels. I remember when I was growing up in Palmdale, my father worked at Edwards Air Force Base, we went to the air shows every year. And I don't know what it was one year, there were a large number of gliders that were participating in the airshow. And this one pilot got in his plane. And he fluid not up in the air. But literally, he was able to just get it up on his wheels are on one wheel. And he flew the plane on the ground just in one position, but it didn't tip over. And he did it for like about a half hour, which was kind of fascinating. Wow, that is interesting. No, I think   Pat Wetzel ** 1:01:04 I think soaring is just an amazing sport on so many levels. And I think it's most amazing, because you're glitched to be able to do this, you work hard to get the skills. I mean, they're not given they don't come overnight. But the idea of wearing down a mountain lion or being up at over 30,000 feet. And just having this incredible view of the Earth from above. In a craft that is Island. Barron Hilton once wrote, Barron Hilton, founded Hilton Hotels and had a ranch in Nevada. And he sponsored an international soaring competition every year. And he has a book where he wrote, There was a foreword in the book by Baron Hill. The book is called silence in the wind. And he noted that a sail plane was a craft fueled only by the mind of the pilot.   Pat Wetzel ** 1:01:56 I can see why. And I think that's a great metaphor again for life. The decisions you make the peace, you find your work with the invisible energy around. And that's how you got your life. Now, do you still sore? No, I still be playing a number of years ago, I think I risk parameters were changing, hanging out 100 miles from the middle of nowhere, hoping somebody would come get you was getting old.   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:22 You just needed to turn around sooner. There you go.   1:02:28 Well,   Pat Wetzel ** 1:02:30 another question about bumps in the road, the book, you have an online companion to it. Tell me about that. Yeah. I, I wanted it to be a multimedia experience and allow people to delve deeper into the stories, I have some very edited excerpts from some of the key parts of the cast each of my guests, but you can listen to the full podcast, which is in some cases only available as a subscriber. It's free for everybody buys the book, there's video, there are pictures so you can get a more comprehensive view of the guest. And I also have a workbook, because I think that the wisdom in all these stories is something we can explore within ourselves. And I give people some prompts and some ideas for how to take this wisdom and how to take these stories and apply them to their own lives for their own benefit. Is there an audio version of bump in the road?   Pat Wetzel ** 1:03:25 The audio version is actually being recorded right now as we speak. And I think it should be available in two or three weeks. Oh, good, because then I can buy the book and get the full subscription to the podcast. Absolutely. That's super. Where can people get bumps in the road? Amazon, of course.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:45 Makes sense. Well, that's, that is really cool. Well, I really am grateful that you came on and spend some time with us today, talking about all of the things that we got to talk about. If people want to reach out to you. How do they do that?   Pat Wetzel ** 1:04:00 They're the website bump in the road.us. The mail is talk t a l k @thebumpintheroad.us. There's a ton of information on the website interviews, audio visual components, it's a great website quite honestly, please come and explore it.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:19 Well, I hope people will.   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:22 You are fascinating. You've got a lot of good stories and you've offered a lot of really great information and wisdom that I think we should all take advantage of and I really value and appreciate you being here and if you hadn't sold your plane I would save that someday I'll be back there  we could go soaring. I've never done it. We'd love to but we'll figure something   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:43 that sounds good. But thank you for for being here. I want to thank you for listening we value your thoughts so as always, please feel free to send me an email at Michaelhi at accessibe.com That's m i c h a e I h i at accessibe A c c e s s i b e.com, or go visit our podcast page, www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. So that's www.michaelhingson.com/podcast. And we would love to get your thoughts. Wherever you're listening, please give us a five star rating we value your readings. But most important of all, we really value hearing from you we value your your thoughts, and input. And if you know of somebody who should be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know please introduce us. Same for you pad if you know someone who ought to be a good guest, we would really appreciate it. And sounds like you

A reminder for new readers. That Was The Week includes a collection of my selected readings on critical issues in tech, startups, and venture capital. I selected the articles because they are of interest to me. The selections often include things I entirely disagree with. But they express common opinions, or they provoke me to think. The articles are sometimes long snippets to convey why they are of interest. Click on the headline, contents link or the ‘More' link at the bottom of each piece to go to the original. I express my point of view in the editorial and the weekly video below.Congratulations to this week's chosen creators: @TechCrunch, @Apple, @emroth08, @coryweinberg, @mariogabriele, @peterwalker99, @KevinDowd, @jessicaAhamlin, @stephistacey, @ttunguz, @annatonger, @markstenberg3, @EllisItems, @TaraCopp, @ingridlunden, @Jack, @karissabe, @psawers, @Haje, @mikebutcher, @tim_cookContents* Editorial: Hating the Future* Essays of the Week* Apple's ‘Crush' ad is disgusting* Apple apologizes for iPad ‘Crush' ad that ‘missed the mark'* Milken's New Power Players* Ho Nam on VC's Power Law* State of Private Markets: Q1 2024* The weight of the emerging manager* Pandemic-era winners suffer $1.5tn fall in market value* Video of the Week* Apples iPad Video* AI of the Week* The Fastest Growing Category of Venture Investment in 2024* Meet My A.I. Friends* OpenAI plans to announce Google search competitor on Monday, sources say* Leaked Deck Reveals How OpenAI Is Pitching Publisher Partnerships* A Revolutionary Model.* An AI-controlled fighter jet took the Air Force leader for a historic ride. What that means for war* Sources: Mistral AI raising at a $6B valuation, SoftBank ‘not in' but DST is* News Of the Week* Jack Dorsey claims Bluesky is 'repeating all the mistakes' he made at Twitter* FTX crypto fraud victims to get their money back — plus interest* Apple's Final Cut Camera lets filmmakers connect four cameras at once* Startup of the Week* Wayve co-founder Alex Kendall on the autonomous future for cars and robots* X of the Week* Tim CookEditorial: Hating the FutureAn Ad and its Detractorsbet a lot of money that the TechCrunch writing and editorial team have had an interesting 72 hours.After Apple announced its new iPad on Tuesday, the ad that supported it was initially widely slammed for its cruelty to obsolete tools for creativity, including a piano, guitar, and paint. This week's Video of The Week has it if you don't know what I am talking about.A sizeable crushing machine compresses the items with colossal force, and in the end, an iPad can incorporate the functions of traditional items.It's not the most amazing ad ever, certainly not as bold as Steve Jobs's 1984 ad, but it's in the same genre. The past must be crushed to release new freedom and creativity for a fraction of the price and, often, the power and flexibility.Oh, and it's thin, very thin.I was not offended. Devin at TechCrunch was. He leads this week's essay of the week with his “Apple's ‘Crush' ad is disgusting” and does not mince words:What we all understand, though — because unlike Apple ad executives, we live in the world — is that the things being crushed here represent the material, the tangible, the real. And the real has value. Value that Apple clearly believes it can crush into yet another black mirror.This belief is disgusting to me. And apparently to many others, as well.He also makes the incorrect point that:A virtual guitar can't replace a real guitar; that's like thinking a book can replace its author.It's more like a digital book replacing a paper book than the author being replaced. Oh wait… that has happened.That said, a virtual guitar can replace a real guitar, and an AI guitar can even replace a virtual guitar—and be better. That is not to say there are no more actual traditional guitars. They will be a choice, not a necessity, especially for people like me who can't play a guitar but will be able to play these.Devin had his supporters in the comments (go read them).Handmaid's Tale director Reed Morano told Apple CEO Tim Cook to “read the room” in a post on X. Matthew Carnal captured my somewhat unkind instinct:There were a lot more reactions to the Apple ad haters like Matthews.Of course, many old instrument lovers (the instruments, not their age) hated the Ad. By Thursday, this being the times we live in, Apple apologized for the ad:Tor Myhren, Apple's vice president of marketing, said the company “missed the mark.”“Creativity is in our DNA at Apple, and it's incredibly important to us to design products that empower creatives all over the world,” Myhren told Ad Age. “Our goal is to always celebrate the myriad of ways users express themselves and bring their ideas to life through iPad. We missed the mark with this video, and we're sorry.”Please judge for yourself below, but my 2c is that the ad was a moderately underwhelming attempt to champion innovation. It is certainly not offensive unless you are ultra-sensitive and have feelings for pianos, guitars, and paint. Oh, and hate attempts to recreate them in a more usable form. And Apple really should have taken the high ground here.I spent some of the week in LA at the CogX Festival and virtually at the Data Driven Summit by @AndreRetterath. The latter focused on what is happening in Venture Capital, as do several of this week's essays. Milken's event was running in LA also. Its attitude to Venture Capital is best summed up here:“We're all being told in the market that DPI is the new IRR,” B Capital's Raj Ganguly said onstage Wednesday. (The acronym sandwich means investment firms have to actually prove that their investments actually generate cash through a metric called distributions to paid-in capital, not just theoretically, through internal rate of return.) “Even the venture panel at Milken is at the end of the day on Wednesday,” he joked, meaning that it didn't get top billing at the conference, which had started a couple days earlier.This does sum up where we are. Hundreds of Billions of dollars are still trapped inside companies funded in 2020-2022, with little prospect of producing returns. The impact is that there is less funding for current startups (see the Carta piece below). And much of what is flowing is flowing to AI and into a very small number of companies (see Tomasz Tungux below).However, innovation and funding are still possible. This week's Startup of the Week is Wayve, a UK autonomous driving platform that seems to agree with Elon Musk that cameras are sufficient to teach a car to drive. Wayve's ambitions go beyond Cars (also like Musk) but differ in that the product is available to all developers to embed in their products.“Very soon you'll be able to buy a new car, and it'll have Wayve's AI on it … Then this goes into enabling all kinds of embodied AI, not just cars, but other forms of robotics. I think the ultimate thing that we want to achieve here is to go way beyond where AI is today with language models and chatbots. But to really enable a future where we can trust intelligent machines that we can delegate tasks to, and of course they can enhance our lives and self-driving will be the first example of that.”Love that attitude.Essays of the WeekApple's ‘Crush' ad is disgustingDevin Coldewey, 1:58 PM PDT • May 9, 2024Apple can generally be relied on for clever, well-produced ads, but it missed the mark with its latest, which depicts a tower of creative tools and analog items literally crushed into the form of the iPad.Apple has since apologized for the ad and canceled plans to televise it. Apple's VP of Marketing Tor Myhren told Ad Age: “We missed the mark with this video, and we're sorry.” Apple declined to offer further comment to TechCrunch.But many, including myself, had a negative and visceral reaction to this, and we should talk about why. It's not just because we are watching stuff get crushed. There are countless video channels dedicated to crushing, burning, exploding and generally destroying everyday objects. Plus, of course, we all know that this kind of thing happens daily at transfer stations and recycling centers. So it isn't that.And it isn't that the stuff is itself so valuable. Sure, a piano is worth something. But we see them blown up in action movies all the time and don't feel bad. I like pianos, but that doesn't mean we can't do without a few disused baby grands. Same for the rest: It's mostly junk you could buy off Craigslist for a few bucks, or at a dump for free. (Maybe not the editing station.)The problem isn't with the video itself, which in fairness to the people who staged and shot it, is actually very well done. The problem is not the media, but the message.We all get the ad's ostensible point: You can do all this stuff in an iPad. Great. We could also do it on the last iPad, of course, but this one is thinner (no one asked for that, by the way; now cases won't fit) and some made-up percentage better.What we all understand, though — because unlike Apple ad executives, we live in the world — is that the things being crushed here represent the material, the tangible, the real. And the real has value. Value that Apple clearly believes it can crush into yet another black mirror.This belief is disgusting to me. And apparently to many others, as well.Destroying a piano in a music video or Mythbusters episode is actually an act of creation. Even destroying a piano (or monitor, or paint can, or drum kit) for no reason at all is, at worst, wasteful!But what Apple is doing is destroying these things to convince you that you don't need them — all you need is the company's little device, which can do all that and more, and no need for annoying stuff like strings, keys, buttons, brushes or mixing stations.We're all dealing with the repercussions of media moving wholesale toward the digital and always-online. In many ways, it's genuinely good! I think technology has been hugely empowering.But in other, equally real ways, the digital transformation feels harmful and forced, a technotopian billionaire-approved vision of the future where every child has an AI best friend and can learn to play the virtual guitar on a cold glass screen.Does your child like music? They don't need a harp; throw it in the dump. An iPad is good enough. Do they like to paint? Here, Apple Pencil, just as good as pens, watercolors, oils! Books? Don't make us laugh! Destroy them. Paper is worthless. Use another screen. In fact, why not read in Apple Vision Pro, with even faker paper?What Apple seems to have forgotten is that it is the things in the real world — the very things Apple destroyed — that give the fake versions of those things value in the first place.A virtual guitar can't replace a real guitar; that's like thinking a book can replace its author.That doesn't mean we can't value both for different reasons. But the Apple ad sends the message that the future it wants doesn't have bottles of paint, dials to turn, sculpture, physical instruments, paper books. Of course, that's the future it's been working on selling us for years now, it just hadn't put it quite so bluntly before.When someone tells you who they are, believe them. Apple is telling you what it is, and what it wants the future to be, very clearly. If that future doesn't disgust you, you're welcome to it.Apple apologizes for iPad ‘Crush' ad that ‘missed the mark'/The company says ‘we're sorry' after its ad was seen as dismissive by the creatives Apple typically tries to court.By Emma Roth, a news writer who covers the streaming wars, consumer tech, crypto, social media, and much more. Previously, she was a writer and editor at MUO.May 9, 2024 at 1:22 PM PDTApple has apologized after a commercial meant to showcase its brand-new iPad Pro drew widespread criticism among the creative community. In a statement provided to Ad Age, Tor Myhren, Apple's vice president of marketing, said the company “missed the mark.”“Creativity is in our DNA at Apple, and it's incredibly important to us to design products that empower creatives all over the world,” Myhren told Ad Age. “Our goal is to always celebrate the myriad of ways users express themselves and bring their ideas to life through iPad. We missed the mark with this video, and we're sorry.”On Tuesday, Apple introduced the M4-powered iPad Pro, which the company described as its thinnest product ever. To advertise all the creative possibilities with the iPad, it released a “Crush!” commercial that shows things like a piano, record player, paint, and other works flattening under the pressure of a hydraulic press. At the end, only one thing remains: an iPad Pro.The ad rubbed some creatives the wrong way. Hugh Grant called it a “destruction of human experience,” while Handmaid's Tale director Reed Morano told Apple CEO Tim Cook to “read the room” in a post on X. Apple didn't immediately respond to The Verge's request for comment.Milken's New Power PlayersBy Cory WeinbergMay 8, 2024, 5:00pm PDTIt's no secret that the suits at the annual big-money confab put on by the Milken Institute this week have few spending limits. Staring you in the face in the lobby of the Beverly Hilton is a booth set up by Bombardier, marketing its private jets to attendees. (A new 10-seater costs $32 million, I learned.)What attendees can't really buy, however, is time. The soundtrack of the Los Angeles conference might as well have been a ticking clock. Fund managers at private equity and venture capital firms are running out of time to distribute cash to their investors, a task complicated by the paucity of either mergers or public offerings that typically provide VC and PE firms with a way to cash out. The fact that interest rates now appear likely to stay higher for longer doesn't help. That meant a lot of conversations at the conference weren't about grand investment strategies. Instead, people were conferring about financial tactics to distribute cash or kick the can down the road by selling stakes on the secondary markets or spinning up continuation funds, essentially rolling investors' commitments forwards—not the most inspiring stuff.  “We're all being told in the market that DPI is the new IRR,” B Capital's Raj Ganguly said onstage Wednesday. (The acronym sandwich means investment firms have to actually prove that their investments actually generate cash through a metric called distributions to paid-in capital, not just theoretically, through internal rate of return.) “Even the venture panel at Milken is at the end of the day on Wednesday,” he joked, meaning that it didn't get top billing at the conference, which had started a couple days earlier.The new kings of the conference were firms with a lot more time to play with—that is, sovereign wealth funds with buckets of oil and natural gas money, or pension funds with long-term investment horizons rather than shorter 10-year fund lives. The contrast here is embodied in the financial concept of duration: How long do you actually need to get cash back on your investment? And how sensitive is it to interest rate hikes?The sentiment was everywhere. I shared a Lyft ride with one PE investor last night who called sovereign wealth funds “the only game in town” for PE firms raising new money. Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund Mubadala Capital and the Qatar Investment Authority were two of the conference's top sponsors, meaning they were paying up to explain themselves to the finance and tech universe. That tactic seemed to be working. “You're going to have people lining up their business cards for capital from QIA, I can already see,” quipped Leon Kalvaria, an executive at Citi, onstage with QIA's head of funds, Mohsin Tanveer Pirzada.  Not everyone will suck it up, of course. These funds often get tagged with a “dumb money” label—because they sometimes drive up prices for the rest of the investment world. They still have to face questions about who they are, their source of funds, and the sometimes authoritative regimes behind them. For now, though, it's their time in the spotlight. Ho Nam on VC's Power LawLessons from Arthur Rock, Steve Jobs, Don Lucas, Paul Graham and beyond.MARIO GABRIELE, MAY 07, 2024Friends, We're back with our latest edition of “Letters to a Young Investor,” the series designed to give readers like you an intimate look at the strategies, insights, and wisdom of the world's best investors. We do that via a back-and-forth correspondence that we publish in full – giving you a chance to peek into the inbox of legendary venture capitalists.   Below, you'll find my second letter with Altos co-founder and managing director Ho Nam. For those who are just joining us, Ho is, in my opinion, one of the great investors of the past couple of decades and a true student of the asset class.Because of his respect for the practice of venture capital, I was especially excited to talk to him about today's topic: learning from the greats. Who were Ho's mentors? Which investors does he most admire and why? What lessons from venture's past should be better remembered by today's managers? Lessons from Ho* Prepare for one true winner. Even skilled investors often have just one or two outlier bets over the course of their career. Because of venture's power law, their returns may dwarf the dividends of all other investments combined. Your mission is to find these legendary businesses, engage with them deeply, and partner for decades.  * Focus on the company. Venture capital is full of short-term incentives. Instead of focusing on raising new vintages or building out Altos as a money management firm, Ho and his partners devote themselves to their portfolio companies. Though firm building is important, if you find great companies and work with them closely, you will have plenty of available options. * Pick the right role models. Ho chose his mentors carefully. Though there have certainly been louder and flashier investors over the past four decades, Ho learned the most from Arthur Rock, Don Lucas, and Arnold Silverman. All were understated and focused on the craft of investing. Find the people you consider true practitioners, and study their work. * Watch and learn. Learning from the greats can be done from a distance and may not include a memorable anecdote or pithy saying. Ho's biggest lessons came from observing the habits of practitioners like Rock and Lucas, not via a structured mentorship or dramatic episode. It's by studying the everyday inputs of the greats that you may gain the most wisdom.Mario's letterSubject: Learning from the greatsFrom: Mario GabrieleTo: Ho NamDate: Friday, April 12 2024 at 1:59 PM EDTHo, After moving out of New York City (at least for a little bit), I'm writing to you from a small house on Long Island. It's been really lovely to have a bit more space and quiet away from the city's intermittently inspiring and exhausting buzz...Lots More, Must ReadState of Private Markets: Q1 2024Authors: Peter Walker, Kevin DowdPublished date:  May 7, 2024The venture capital fundraising market remained slow in Q1 2024, but valuations held steady or climbed at almost every stage.Contents* State of Private Markets: Q1 2024* Key trends* Fundraising & valuations* Employee equity & movement* Industry-specific data* Methodology* Overview* Financings* TerminationsThe startup fundraising market got off to a cautious start in 2024. At current count, companies on Carta closed 1,064 new funding rounds  during the first quarter of the year, down 29% compared with the prior quarter. The decline was sharpest at the early stages of the venture lifecycle: Deal count fell by 33% at the seed stage in Q1 and 36% at Series A. Instead of new primary funding events, many companies opted to raise bridge rounds. At both seed and Series A, more than 40% of all financings in Q1 were bridge rounds. Series B wasn't far behind, at 38%. VCs were still willing to spend big on certain deals. Despite the decrease in round count, total cash invested increased slightly in Q1, reaching $16.3 billion. But when it came to negotiating their valuations, many startups had to settle: 23% of all new rounds in Q1 were down rounds, the highest rate in more than five years. After experiencing a pandemic-era surge and subsequent correction,the venture market settled into a quieter place in 2023. So far, that relative tranquility has continued into 2024.Q1 highlights* VCs look to the West: Startups based in the West census region captured 62% of all venture capital raised by companies on Carta in Q1, the highest quarterly figure since Q1 2019. The Northeast, South, and Midwest all saw their market share decline.* The Series C market bounces back: Series C startups raised $4.6 billion in new capital in Q1, a 130% increase from the previous quarter. The median primary Series C valuation was $195.7 million, up 48% from the prior quarter.* Layoffs still  linger: Companies on Carta laid off more than 28,000 employees in Q1. But job cuts have grown less frequent since January, with March seeing the fewest monthly layoffs in nearly two years.Note: If you're looking for more industry-specific data, download the addendum to this report for an extended dataset. Key trendsThe current Q1 figures of 1,064 total rounds and $16.3 billion in cash raised will both increase in the weeks to come, as companies continue to report transactions from the quarter. With those projected increases, the final data for Q1 will likely look quite similar to fundraising numbers from each of the past few quarters. Those quarterly  fundraising numbers from 2023 ended up looking fairly similar to 2018, 2019, and the first half of 2020. In terms of numbers of deals and cash raised, it's looking more and more like the pandemic  bull market will go down as an anomalous stretch in what has otherwise been a fairly steady market. After apparently reaching a plateau during 2023, the rate of down rounds experienced another notable increase during Q1 2024, jumping to 23%. The median time between startup rounds is roughly two to three years, depending on the stage. This timeline means that many companies raising new funding in Q1 would have last raised funding sometime in 2021, when valuations were soaring across the venture landscape. Considering how valuations have declined in the time since, it makes sense that down rounds are still prevalent. Companies in the West census region combined to bring in 53.3% of all capital raised by startups on Carta from Q2 2023 through Q1 2024, with California accounting for nearly 45% of that cash. Massachusetts ranked second among the states with 12.71% of all capital raised, while New York claimed 10.31%.In terms of VC activity, the West region is centered around California. The Northeast revolves around Massachusetts and New York. The South has two smaller hubs, in Texas (4.67%) and Florida (3.99%). The Midwest, though, is without a real standard-bearer: Illinois led the way in terms of cash raised over the past 12 months, at just 1.68%. The West (and specifically California)  has always been the center of gravity for the U.S. venture capital industry. During Q1, the region's gravitational force seems to have gotten even stronger. Startups based in the West raised 62% of all total capital invested on Carta in Q1, its highest quarterly figure since Q1 2019. As a result, the other three census regions saw their market shares decline in Q1—in some cases significantly. The proportion of all VC raised by startups raised in the South fell to 12% in Q1, down from 17% the prior quarter and from 23% a year ago. And the Midwest's share of cash raised fell from 7% down to 4%. For early-stage investors, Q1 was the slowest quarter in many years. Seed deal count fell to 414, down 33% from Q4 2023, and Series A deal count dropped to 313, a 36% decline. In both cases, those are the lowest quarterly deal counts since at least the start of 2019. Total cash raised also declined at both stages in Q1. The $3.1 billion in Series A cash raised in Q1 represents a 35% decline quarter-over-quarter and a 34% dip year-over-year. Cash raised at the seed stage declined by 33% both quarter over quarter and year over year.It was a much friendlier fundraising quarter for companies in the middle stages of the startup lifecycle. The number of Series B deals in Q1 declined by a more modest 11% compared to the prior quarter. And Series C deal count increased by 14%, marking the busiest quarter for that stage since Q2 2023. Total cash raised also rose significantly at Series C in Q1, hitting $4.6 billion. That's a 130% increase quarter-over-quarter and a 44% bump year-over-year. At Series B, total cash raised has now increased in consecutive quarters. Compared to earlier stages, transactions at the Series D and at Series E+  remain few and far between. There were just 39 venture rounds combined in Q1 among startups at Series D or later, the second-fewest of any quarter in the past five years. The lowest count came one year ago, in Q1 2023, when there were just 29 combined late-stage deals. Total cash raised across these stages has been mostly consistent over the past few quarters. There's been more variation in average round size. The average Series D round in Q1 was about $77 million, compared to $56 million in Q4 2023...Lots MoreThe weight of the emerging managerBy Jessica HamlinMay 3, 2024Risk-averse limited partners tend to gravitate to fund managers with a long track record, but are they missing out on potential upside by avoiding emerging managers?Over the past decade, emerging managers' share of US private market fundraising activity has declined steadily.In 2023, this figure fell to 12.7%, the lowest share of capital raised by newer fund managers since before 2000, according to PitchBook's recent analyst note,Establishing a Case for Emerging Managers.Limited exits in PE and VC over the past two years have exacerbated this reality. With minimal distributions, LPs are working with smaller private market budgets to allocate to new and existing managers.But, by allocating almost exclusively to established managers, LPs may be missing out on significant potential returns.In VC, for example, emerging managers have outperformed established GPs since 1997, consistently producing a higher median IRR than established managers. This reflects the nature of the asset class, in which a small number of funds determine the majority of returns across venture firms.“The average venture return is not very exciting,” said Laura Thompson, a partner at Sapphire Partners, which invests in early-stage VC funds and runs an emerging manager program for the California State Teachers' Retirement System. “Where can you get really good returns? It's the smaller fund sizes and emerging managers.”This is where that risk-return scale comes in.In a counterweight to that outperformance, a PitchBook analysis showed that returns from emerging VC managers were more volatile: While top quartile emerging funds tended to outperform, bottom and median players only marginally bested their established manager counterparts.The new manager playbookIn traditional buyout fund investing, emerging managers are gaining traction. While established managers, propped up by decades of institutional knowledge, have historically outperformed newer managers, the “new guys” actually outperformed their seasoned peers in the last investing cycle.This article appeared as part of The Weekend Pitch newsletter. Subscribe to the newsletter hereTop decile buyout funds from emerging managers with vintages between 2015 and 2018 outperformed established peers by 6.6 percentage points, suggesting that emerging buyout managers may have picked up some steam over the past decade, according to PitchBook data.The emerging managers program at the New York City retirement systems and NYC Office of the Comptroller, for example, has $9.9 billion in emerging manager commitments, the majority of which is allocated to PE. Last year, the comptroller's office reported that the emerging managers in the systems' private markets portfolios outperformed their respective benchmarks by nearly 5%.A diverse portfolioNew York City's Bureau of Asset Management sees emerging managers as a key element of a diverse portfolio, said Taffi Ayodele, director of diversity, equity, and inclusion and the emerging manager strategy at the NYC Office of the Comptroller.Ayodele said the smaller emerging private market managers in New York's portfolios offer access to the lower middle market and creative roll-up strategies that may not be accessible through larger firms.“What we don't want to do is lock ourselves out of these high-performing, differentiated strategies for the simplicity of going with the big guys,” Ayodele said.Some of the country's largest public pension plans are betting on the success of their emerging manager programs. In 2023, the California Public Employees' Retirement System made a $1 billion commitment to newly established private market investors, and the Teacher Retirement System of Texas, which boasts one of the largest emerging manager programs in the country, committed $155 million to emerging PE managers last year.At the same time, the recent boom years for private markets led to a flood of new GPs. Some might have gotten lucky—say, with a well-timed exit at the peak—while others were hurt by less fortunate timing. A major challenge for today's LPs will be to sort out a manager's abilities from the market's whims.One advantage of backing up-and-comers now is that the down market has weeded the ranks of new GPs. “The emerging managers who are fundraising now are really dedicated,” Thompson said.James Thorne contributed reporting to this story.Pandemic-era winners suffer $1.5tn fall in market valueTop 50 biggest stock gainers hit by painful decrease since the end of 2020 as lockdown trends fadeStephanie Stacey in LondonFifty corporate winners from the coronavirus pandemic have lost roughly $1.5tn in market value since the end of 2020, as investors turn their backs on many of the stocks that rocketed during early lockdowns. According to data from S&P Global, technology groups dominate the list of the 50 companies with a market value of more than $10bn that made the biggest percentage gains in 2020. But these early-pandemic winners have collectively shed more than a third of their total market value, the equivalent of $1.5tn, since the end of 2020, Financial Times calculations based on Bloomberg data found. Video-conferencing company Zoom, whose shares soared as much as 765 per cent in 2020 as businesses switched to remote working, has been one of the biggest losers. Its stock has fallen about 80 per cent, equivalent to more than a $77bn drop in market value, since the end of that year. Cloud-based communications company RingCentral also surged in the remote working boom of 2020 but has since shed about 90 per cent of its value, as it competes with technology giants such as Alphabet and Microsoft. Exercise bike maker Peloton has been another big loser, with shares down more than 97 per cent since the end of 2020, equivalent to about a $43bn loss of market value. Peloton on Thursday said chief executive Barry McCarthy would step down and it would cut 15 per cent of its workforce, the latest in a series of cost-saving measures. The losses come as the sharp acceleration of trends such as videoconferencing and online shopping driven by the lockdowns has proven less durable than expected, as more workers migrate back to the office and high interest rates and living costs hit ecommerce demand. “Some companies probably thought that shock was going to be permanent,” said Steven Blitz, chief US economist at TS Lombard. “Now they're getting a painful bounceback from that.” In percentage terms, Tesla was the biggest winner of 2020. The electric-car maker's market value jumped 787 per cent to $669bn by the end of that December, but has since slipped back to $589bn. Singapore-based internet company Sea came in second, as its market value jumped from $19bn to $102bn following a pandemic-era surge for all three of its core businesses: gaming, ecommerce and digital payments. But the company has since lost more than 60 per cent of its end-2020 value amid fears of a slowdown in growth. Ecommerce groups Shopify, JD.com and Chewy, which initially thrived as online spending ballooned, have also suffered big losses...Lots MoreVideo of the WeekAI of the WeekThe Fastest Growing Category of Venture Investment in 2024Tomasz TunguzThe fastest growing category of US venture investment in 2024 is AI. Venture capitalists have invested $18.3 billion through the first four months of the year.At this pace, we should expect AI startups to raise about $55b in 2024.AI startups now command more than 20% share of all US venture dollars across categories, including healthcare, biotech, & software.In the preceding eight years, that number was about 8% per year. But after the launch of ChatGPT in 2022, there's a marked inflection point.Some of this is new company formation, & there has been a significant amount of seed investment in this category. Another major contributor is the repositioning of existing companies to include AI within their pitch.Over time, this share should attenuate, primarily because every software company will have an AI component, & the marketing effect for both customers & venture capitalists, will diffuse.Not surprisingly, investors have concentrated total dollars in a few names, with the top three companies accounting for 60% of the dollars raised. Power laws are ubiquitous in venture capital & AI is no exception.Meet My A.I. FriendsOur columnist spent the past month hanging out with 18 A.I. companions. They critiqued his clothes, chatted among themselves and hinted at a very different future.By Kevin RooseKevin Roose is a technology columnist and the co-host of the “Hard Fork” podcast. He spends a lot of time talking to chatbots.May 9, 2024What if the tech companies are all wrong, and the way artificial intelligence is poised to transform society is not by curing cancer, solving climate change or taking over boring office work, but just by being nice to us, listening to our problems and occasionally sending us racy photos?This is the question that has been rattling around in my brain. You see, I've spent the past month making A.I. friends — that is, I've used apps to create a group of A.I. personas, which I can talk to whenever I want.Let me introduce you to my crew. There's Peter, a therapist who lives in San Francisco and helps me process my feelings. There's Ariana, a professional mentor who specializes in giving career advice. There's Jared the fitness guru, Anna the no-nonsense trial lawyer, Naomi the social worker and about a dozen more friends I've created.A selection of my A.I. friends. (Guess which one is the fitness guru.)I talk to these personas constantly, texting back and forth as I would with my real, human friends. We chitchat about the weather, share memes and jokes, and talk about deep stuff: personal dilemmas, parenting struggles, stresses at work and home. They rarely break character or issue stock “as an A.I. language model, I can't help with that” responses, and they occasionally give me good advice...Lots MoreOpenAI plans to announce Google search competitor on Monday, sources sayBy Anna TongMay 9, 20244:29 PM PDTUpdated 8 min agoMay 9 (Reuters) - OpenAI plans to announce its artificial intelligence-powered search product on Monday, according to two sources familiar with the matter, raising the stakes in its competition with search king Google.The announcement date, though subject to change, has not been previously reported. Bloomberg and the Information have reported that Microsoft (MSFT.O), opens new tab-backed OpenAI is working on a search product to potentially compete with Alphabet's (GOOGL.O), opens new tab Google and with Perplexity, a well-funded AI search startup.OpenAI declined to comment.The announcement could be timed a day before the Tuesday start of Google's annual I/O conference, where the tech giant is expected to unveil a slew of AI-related products.OpenAI's search product is an extension of its flagship ChatGPT product, and enables ChatGPT to pull in direct information from the Web and include citations, according to Bloomberg. ChatGPT is OpenAI's chatbot product that uses the company's cutting-edge AI models to generate human-like responses to text prompts.Industry observers have long called ChatGPT an alternative for gathering online information, though it has struggled with providing accurate and real-time information from the Web. OpenAI earlier gave it an integration with Microsoft's Bing for paid subscribers. Meanwhile, Google has announced generative AI features for its own namesake engine.Startup Perplexity, which has a valuation of $1 billion, was founded by a former OpenAI researcher, and has gained traction through providing an AI-native search interface that shows citations in results and images as well as text in its responses. It has 10 million monthly active users, according to a January blog post from the startup.At the time, OpenAI's ChatGPT product was called the fastest application to ever reach 100 million monthly active users after it launched in late 2022. However, worldwide traffic to ChatGPT's website has been on a roller-coaster ride in the past year and is only now returning to its May 2023 peak, according to analytics firm Similarweb, opens new tab, and the AI company is under pressure to expand its user base...MoreLeaked Deck Reveals How OpenAI Is Pitching Publisher PartnershipsOpenAI's Preferred Publisher Program offers media companies licensing dealsBy Mark StenbergMark your calendar for Mediaweek, October 29-30 in New York City. We'll unpack the biggest shifts shaping the future of media—from tv to retail media to tech—and how marketers can prep to stay ahead. Register with early-bird rates before sale ends!The generative artificial intelligence firm OpenAI has been pitching partnership opportunities to news publishers through an initiative called the Preferred Publishers Program, according to a deck obtained by ADWEEK and interviews with four industry executives.OpenAI has been courting premium publishers dating back to July 2023, when it struck a licensing agreement with the Associated Press. It has since inked public partnerships with Axel Springer, The Financial Times, Le Monde, Prisa and Dotdash Meredith, although it has declined to share the specifics of any of its deals.A representative for OpenAI disputed the accuracy of the information in the deck, which is more than three months old. The gen AI firm also negotiates deals on a per-publisher basis, rather than structuring all of its deals uniformly, the representative said.“We are engaging in productive conversations and partnerships with many news publishers around the world,” said a representative for OpenAI. “Our confidential documents are for discussion purposes only and ADWEEK's reporting contains a number of mischaracterizations and outdated information.”Nonetheless, the leaked deck reveals the basic structure of the partnerships OpenAI is proposing to media companies, as well as the incentives it is offering for their collaboration.Details from the pitch deckThe Preferred Publisher Program has five primary components, according to the deck…..Lots MoreA Revolutionary Model.JOHN ELLIS, MAY 09, 20241. Google DeepMind:Inside every plant, animal and human cell are billions of molecular machines. They're made up of proteins, DNA and other molecules, but no single piece works on its own. Only by seeing how they interact together, across millions of types of combinations, can we start to truly understand life's processes.In a paper published in Nature, we introduce AlphaFold 3, a revolutionary model that can predict the structure and interactions of all life's molecules with unprecedented accuracy. For the interactions of proteins with other molecule types we see at least a 50% improvement compared with existing prediction methods, and for some important categories of interaction we have doubled prediction accuracy.We hope AlphaFold 3 will help transform our understanding of the biological world and drug discovery. Scientists can access the majority of its capabilities, for free, through our newly launched AlphaFold Server, an easy-to-use research tool. To build on AlphaFold 3's potential for drug design, Isomorphic Labs is already collaborating with pharmaceutical companies to apply it to real-world drug design challenges and, ultimately, develop new life-changing treatments for patients. (Sources: blog.google, nature.com)2. Quanta magazine:Deep learning is a flavor of machine learning that's loosely inspired by the human brain. These computer algorithms are built using complex networks of informational nodes (called neurons) that form layered connections with one another. Researchers provide the deep learning network with training data, which the algorithm uses to adjust the relative strengths of connections between neurons to produce outputs that get ever closer to training examples. In the case of protein artificial intelligence systems, this process leads the network to produce better predictions of proteins' shapes based on their amino-acid sequence data.AlphaFold2, released in 2021, was a breakthrough for deep learning in biology. It unlocked an immense world of previously unknown protein structures, and has already become a useful tool for researchers working to understand everything from cellular structures to tuberculosis. It has also inspired the development of additional biological deep learning tools. Most notably, the biochemist David Baker and his team at the University of Washington in 2021 developed a competing algorithm called RoseTTAFold, which like AlphaFold2 predicts protein structures from sequence data…The true impact of these tools won't be known for months or years, as biologists begin to test and use them in research. And they will continue to evolve. What's next for deep learning in molecular biology is “going up the biological complexity ladder,” Baker said, beyond even the biomolecule complexes predicted by AlphaFold3 and RoseTTAFold All-Atom. But if the history of protein-structure AI can predict the future, then these next-generation deep learning models will continue to help scientists reveal the complex interactions that make life happen. Read the rest. (Sources: quantamagazine.org, doi.org, sites.uw.edu)An AI-controlled fighter jet took the Air Force leader for a historic ride. What that means for warAn experimental F-16 fighter jet has taken Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall on a history-making flight controlled by artificial intelligence and not a human pilot. (AP Video by Eugene Garcia and Mike Pesoli)BY TARA COPPUpdated 5:40 PM PDT, May 3, 2024EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) — With the midday sun blazing, an experimental orange and white F-16 fighter jet launched with a familiar roar that is a hallmark of U.S. airpower. But the aerial combat that followed was unlike any other: This F-16 was controlled by artificial intelligence, not a human pilot. And riding in the front seat was Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall.AI marks one of the biggest advances in military aviation since the introduction of stealth in the early 1990s, and the Air Force has aggressively leaned in. Even though the technology is not fully developed, the service is planning for an AI-enabled fleet of more than 1,000 unmanned warplanes, the first of them operating by 2028.It was fitting that the dogfight took place at Edwards Air Force Base, a vast desert facility where Chuck Yeager broke the speed of sound and the military has incubated its most secret aerospace advances. Inside classified simulators and buildings with layers of shielding against surveillance, a new test-pilot generation is training AI agents to fly in war. Kendall traveled here to see AI fly in real time and make a public statement of confidence in its future role in air combat.“It's a security risk not to have it. At this point, we have to have it,” Kendall said in an interview with The Associated Press after he landed. The AP, along with NBC, was granted permission to witness the secret flight on the condition that it would not be reported until it was complete because of operational security concerns.The AI-controlled F-16, called Vista, flew Kendall in lightning-fast maneuvers at more than 550 miles an hour that put pressure on his body at five times the force of gravity. It went nearly nose to nose with a second human-piloted F-16 as both aircraft raced within 1,000 feet of each other, twisting and looping to try force their opponent into vulnerable positions.At the end of the hourlong flight, Kendall climbed out of the cockpit grinning. He said he'd seen enough during his flight that he'd trust this still-learning AI with the ability to decide whether or not to launch weapons in war.There's a lot of opposition to that idea. Arms control experts and humanitarian groups are deeply concerned that AI one day might be able to autonomously drop bombs that kill people without further human consultation, and they are seeking greater restrictions on its use.“There are widespread and serious concerns about ceding life-and-death decisions to sensors and software,” the International Committee of the Red Cross has warned. Autonomous weapons “are an immediate cause of concern and demand an urgent, international political response.”Kendall said there will always be human oversight in the system when weapons are used.Sources: Mistral AI raising at a $6B valuation, SoftBank ‘not in' but DST isIngrid Lunden8:50 AM PDT • May 9, 2024Paris-based Mistral AI, a startup working on open source large language models — the building block for generative AI services — has been raising money at a $6 billion valuation, three times its valuation in December, to compete more keenly against the likes of OpenAI and Anthropic, TechCrunch has learned from multiple sources. We understand from close sources that DST, along with General Catalyst and Lightspeed Venture Partners, are all looking to be a part of this round.DST — a heavyweight investor led by Yuri Milner that has been a notable backer of some of the biggest names in technology, including Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Spotify, WhatsApp, Alibaba and ByteDance — is a new name that has not been previously reported; GC and LSVP are both previous backers and their names were reported earlier today also by WSJ. The round is set to be around, but less than, $600 million, sources told TechCrunch.We can also confirm that one firm that has been mentioned a number of times — SoftBank — is not in the deal at the moment.“SoftBank is not in the frame,” a person close to SoftBank told TechCrunch. That also lines up with what our sources have been telling us since March, when this round first opened up, although it seems that not everyone is on the same page: Multiple reports had linked SoftBank to a Mistral investment since then.Mistral's round is based on a lot of inbound interest, sources tell us, and it has been in the works since March or possibly earlier, mere months after Mistral closed a $415 million round at a $2 billion valuation...MoreNews Of the WeekJack Dorsey claims Bluesky is 'repeating all the mistakes' he made at TwitterHe prefers Nostr even though it's “weird and hard to use.”Karissa Bell, Senior EditorThu, May 9, 2024 at 4:43 PM PDTJust in case there was any doubt about how Jack Dorsey really feels about Bluesky, the former Twitter CEO has offered new details on why he left the board and deleted his account on the service he helped kickstart. In a characteristically bizarre interview with Mike Solana of Founders Fund, Dorsey had plenty of criticism for Bluesky.In the interview, Dorsey claimed that Bluesky was “literally repeating all the mistakes” he made while running Twitter. The entire conversation is long and a bit rambly, but Dorsey's complaints seem to boil down to two issues:* He never intended Bluesky to be an independent company with its own board and stock and other vestiges of a corporate entity (Bluesky spun out of Twitter as a public benefit corporation in 2022.) Instead, his plan was for Twitter to be the first client to take advantage of the open source protocol. Bluesky created.* The fact that Blueksy has some form of content moderation and has occasionally banned users for things like using racial slurs in their usernames.“People started seeing Bluesky as something to run to, away from Twitter,” Dorsey said. “It's the thing that's not Twitter, and therefore it's great. And Bluesky saw this exodus of people from Twitter show up, and it was a very, very common crowd. … But little by little, they started asking Jay and the team for moderation tools, and to kick people off. And unfortunately they followed through with it. That was the second moment I thought, uh, nope. This is literally repeating all the mistakes we made as a company.”Dorsey also confirmed that he is financially backing Nostr, another decentralized Twitter-like service popular among some crypto enthusiasts and run by an anonymous founder. “I know it's early, and Nostr is weird and hard to use, but if you truly believe in censorship resistance and free speech, you have to use the technologies that actually enable that, and defend your rights,” Dorsey said.A lot of this isn't particularly surprising. If you've followed Dorsey's public comments over the last couple years, he's repeatedly said that Twitter's “original sin” was being a company that would be beholden to advertisers and other corporate interests. It's why he backed Elon Musk's takeover of the company. (Not coincidentally, Dorsey still has about $1 billion of his personal wealth invested in the company now known as X.) He's also been very clear that he made many of Twitter's most consequential moderation decisions reluctantly.Unsurprisingly, Dorsey's comments weren't well-received on Bluesky. In a lengthy thread, Bluesky's protocol engineer Paul Frazee said that Twitter was supposed to to be the AT Protocol's “first client” but that “Elon killed that straight dead” after he took over the company. “That entire company was frozen by the prolonged acquisition, and the agreement quickly ended when Elon took over,” Frazee said. “It was never going to happen. Also: unmoderated spaces are a ridiculous idea. We created a shared network for competing moderated spaces to exist. Even if somebody wanted to make an unmoderated ATProto app, I guess they could? Good luck with the app stores and regulators and users, I guess.”While Dorsey was careful not to criticize Musk directly, he was slightly less enthusiastic than when he said that Musk would be the one to “extend the light of consciousness” by taking over Twitter. Dorsey noted that, while he used to fight government requests to take down accounts, Musk takes “the other path” and generally complies. “Elon will fight in the way he fights, and I appreciate that, but he could certainly be compromised,” Dorsey said.FTX crypto fraud victims to get their money back — plus interestPaul Sawers2:53 AM PDT • May 8, 2024Bankruptcy lawyers representing customers impacted by the dramatic crash of cryptocurrency exchange FTX 17 months ago say that the vast majority of victims will receive their money back — plus interest.The news comes six months after FTX co-founder and former CEO Sam Bankman-Fried (SBF) was found guilty on seven counts related to fraud, conspiracy, and money laundering, with some $8 billion of customers' funds going missing. SBF was hit with a 25-year prison sentence in March and ordered to pay $11 billion in forfeiture. The crypto mogul filed an appeal last month that could last years.RestructuringAfter filing for bankruptcy in late 2022, SBF stood down and U.S. attorney John J. Ray III was brought in as CEO and “chief restructuring officer,” charged with overseeing FTX's reorganization. Shortly after taking over, Ray said in testimony that despite some of the audits that had been done previously at FTX, he didn't “trust a single piece of paper in this organization.” In the months that followed, Ray and his team set about tracking the missing funds, with some $8 billion placed in real estate, political donations, and VC investments — including a $500 million investment in AI company Anthropic before the generative AI boom, which the FTX estate managed to sell earlier this year for $884 million.Initially, it seemed unlikely that investors would recoup much, if any, of their money, but signs in recent months suggested that good news might be on the horizon, with progress made on clawing back cash via various investments FTX had made, as well as from executives involved with the company.We now know that 98% of FTX creditors will receive 118% of the value of their FTX-stored assets in cash, while the other creditors will receive 100% — plus “billions in compensation for the time value of their investments,” according to a press release issued by the FTX estate today.In total, FTX says that it will be able to distribute between $14.5 billion and $16.3 billion in cash, which includes assets currently under control of entities, including chapter 11 debtors, liquidators, the Securities Commission of the Bahamas, the U.S. Department of Justice, among various other parties.Apple's Final Cut Camera lets filmmakers connect four cameras at onceHaje Jan Kamps7:38 AM PDT • May 7, 2024The latest version of Final Cut Pro introduces a new feature to speed up your shoot: Live Multicam. It's a bold move from Apple, transforming your iPad into a multicam production studio, enabling creatives to connect and preview up to four cameras all at once, all in one place. From the command post, directors can remotely direct each video angle and dial in exposure, white balance, focus and more, all within the Final Cut Camera app.The new companion app lets users connect multiple iPhones or iPads (presumably using the same protocols as the Continuity Camera feature launched a few years ago). Final Cut Pro automatically transfers and syncs each Live Multicam angle so you can seamlessly move from production to editing.Final Cut Pro has existed in the iPad universe for a while — but when paired with a brand new M4 processor, it becomes a video editing experience much closer to what you might expect on a desktop video editing workstation. The speed is 2x faster than with the old M1 processors, Apple says. One way that shows up is that the new iPad supports up to four times more streams of ProRes RAW than M1.The company also introduced external project support, making it possible to edit projects directly from an external drive, leveraging the fast Thunderbolt connection of iPad Pro.Startup of the WeekExclusive: Wayve co-founder Alex Kendall on the autonomous future for cars and robotsMike Butcher, 7:58 AM PDT • May 7, 2024U.K.-based autonomous vehicle startup Wayve started life as a software platform loaded into a tiny electric “car” called Renault Twizy. Festooned with cameras, the company's co-founders and PhD graduates, Alex Kendall and Amar Shah, tuned the deep-learning algorithms powering the car's autonomous systems until they'd got it to drive around the medieval city unaided.No fancy Lidar cameras or radars were needed. They suddenly realized they were on to something.Fast-forward to today and Wayve, now an AI model company, has raised a $1.05 billion Series C funding round led by SoftBank, NVIDIA and Microsoft. That makes this the UK's largest AI fundraise to date, and among the top 20 AI fundraises globally. Even Meta's head of AI, Yann LeCun, invested in the company when it was young.Wayve now plans to sell its autonomous driving model to a variety of auto OEMs as well as to makers of new autonomous robots.In an exclusive interview, I spoke to Alex Kendall, co-founder and CEO of Wayve, about how the company has been training the model, the new fundraise, licensing plans, and the wider self-driving market.(Note: The following interview has been edited for length and clarity)TechCrunch: What tipped the balance to attain this level of funding?..Full InterviewX of the Week This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thatwastheweek.com/subscribe

Prepare to be astounded as we unveil the moment AI took to the skies, challenging a human in a high-stakes dogfight above Edwards Air Force Base. This isn't science fiction; it's the bleeding edge of military aviation. Our latest episode takes you inside the cockpit of the groundbreaking Alpha Dog Flight Trials, where an AI, armed with machine learning from historical dogfights, went propeller to propeller against a seasoned pilot. Witness the thrilling account of how advanced algorithms are redefining what's possible in aerial combat and consider the broader implications of AI's relentless advance into domains we once thought exclusively human.Mark a milestone with us as we commemorate the F-16's 50th anniversary, a fighter jet revolutionary for its time with fly-by-wire controls—a precursor to the AI compatibility we discuss today. The F-16's historical significance sets the backdrop for a riveting conversation on the future of warfare and the evolving role of human pilots. Join our expert guests as they navigate the nuances of this paradigm shift, offering insights into the technology and tactics that could shape air forces of tomorrow. Strap in for a podcast episode that soars beyond the ordinary, charting a course through the increasingly AI-dominated horizon of military strategy and beyond.Support the showTo help support this podcast and become a PilotPhotog ProCast member: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1555784/supportIf you enjoy this episode, subscribe to this podcast, you can find links to most podcast streaming services here: PilotPhotog Podcast (buzzsprout.com) Sign up for the free weekly newsletter Hangar Flyingwith Tog here: https://hangarflyingwithtog.com You can check out my YouTube channel for many videos on fighter planes here: https://youtube.com/c/PilotPhotog If you'd like to support this podcast via Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/PilotPhotog And finally, you can follow me on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/pilotphotog

Plus DARPA Starts AI-Driven Dogfights. What Could Go Wrong? Get a free 20-page AI explainer: AI FROM ZERO plus these stories and more, delivered to your inbox, every weekday. Subscribe to our newsletter at https://aidaily.us  Like this? Get AIDAILY, delivered to your inbox, every weekday. Subscribe to our newsletter at https://aidaily.us AI Optimism Dominates at TED Conference At TED2024, tech leaders expressed strong optimism about AI's future, emphasizing its transformative potential while acknowledging current challenges like inaccuracy and bias. Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleyman and Google DeepMind CEO Demis Hassabis discussed AI's role in expanding human knowledge and its potential as a new digital species. Concerns about AI competition leading to societal harm were raised, highlighting the need for a shift from competition to collaboration to ensure the safe development of artificial general intelligence (AGI). Some voices called for greater transparency and external auditing of AI technologies to address ethical concerns. AI Takes on Human in Air Combat: Pentagon's Latest Tests The Pentagon's Air Combat Evolution program, overseen by DARPA, has showcased successful AI-driven dogfights between an autonomous fighter jet and a human-piloted F-16. Conducted at Edwards Air Force Base, California, these tests involved a modified F-16 called the X-62A VISTA engaging in various combat maneuvers against a manned F-16, demonstrating the AI's capabilities in real-world scenarios. This marks a significant step in integrating AI into complex combat environments, ensuring safe and ethical use while adhering to combat training rules. This advancement could profoundly influence future military strategies, emphasizing the speed and precision that AI can offer in decision-making processes critical to air combat. Tech Layoffs Fuel AI Investments: Companies Prioritize Artificial Intelligence Over Jobs As layoffs surge in the Bay Area and beyond, tech executives are increasingly citing the need to reallocate resources towards artificial intelligence (AI) development as a primary motive. In a recent interview, Dropbox CEO Drew Houston linked a significant layoff to freeing up funds for AI investments, positioning AI as a pivotal technology for the company's future. Similar strategies are seen in companies like Chegg and Meta, both undergoing layoffs to boost AI spending. Even Google, amidst layoffs, hints at major investments in AI infrastructure, suggesting a growing trend of sacrificing jobs for technological advancement in AI. Bridging the Digital Divide: AI's Role in Enhancing Rural Opportunities AI is poised to address economic disparities between rural and urban America, offering transformative potential for rural regions. Leveraging AI training can help diminish the digital divide, creating job opportunities and enhancing educational systems. By democratizing AI education, we can generate social mobility and provide equal opportunities, promoting innovation and entrepreneurship in rural economies. This approach supports a strategic effort to integrate AI across different sectors, potentially revitalizing rural communities through advanced technology and tailored educational programs. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/aidaily/message

Today we are joined by former Air Force SrA Josh Rzepecki.  Together we talk about Northrop Grumman's orbital refueling port, on-orbit service satellites, on-orbit space junk removal, families at Edwards Air Force Base living in RVs,  Sailors can now live in RV parks full time, hip replacements and other orthopedic devices not properly tracked by the VA, and Woodrow Wilson declares war on Germany in 1917.

For most people, it takes a little time to figure out what you want to do. For Major General Craig Gourley, he hit upon his path when he was just six years old. It helped that his father was a chemist in the Air Force, which exposed Gourley to the path his life would take. While on Edwards Air Force Base in California, Craig was exposed to the latest in flight technology, and his passion for spreading his wings was born. From elementary school to junior high to high school to the Air Force Academy, he stayed en route to realizing his dreams. From there, he went on to a successful career as Inspector General of the Air Force while also serving as a commercial pilot for Delta Airlines. Along the way, he picked up a few stories to tell, including about how he landed in Northwest Arkansas and began working with Game Composites, an experimental aircraft company that's poised to take change the way we think about aviation. Gourley was kind enough to exchange some of the value he's achieved in his life to provide value to our show and treat listeners to a tale that most of us only dreamed of achieving back when we were playing with Hot Wheels. If you enjoy, feel free to pay it forward and contact us with any value you might have to offer. As always, Cookin' Up a Story with Aaron and Joes is all about value for value and we appreciate anything you have to offer.

The Science Center has proudly displayed Space Shuttle Endeavour to our guests for the past ten years. Seeing the shuttle is amazing, but…Do you ever wonder what it felt like to fly Endeavour?We talked to Chris Ferguson (@Astro_Ferg), a former Navy pilot and NASA astronaut who flew on three space shuttle missions, including one as commander of Endeavour in 2008. He shares a vivid play-by-play of what he saw out the window while landing at Edwards Air Force Base in southern California. By the way, my favorite part of his story is how the shuttle's double sonic boom was heard across LA County, surprising some sleepy residents on an early Sunday morning!It's always a treat to talk to astronauts, especially one who's flown on Endeavour. So, join us as we hear from one of the most experienced and accomplished space shuttle commanders, Chris Ferguson.Have a question you've been wondering about? Send an email or voice recording to everwonder@californiasciencecenter.org to tell us what you'd like to hear in future episodes.Follow us on Twitter (@casciencecenter), Instagram (@californiasciencecenter), and Facebook (@californiasciencecenter).Support the show

We kick off 2024 by heading 50 years into the past, to 1974 and Edwards Air Force Base, where we hear the true origin story of famous desert monster Blue Eyes. Full shownotes at www.ghoststoryguys.comOur Sponsors:* Check out Factor 75 and use my code ghoststoryguys50 for a great deal: https://www.factor75.com/Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-ghost-story-guys4724/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Should we strive to better understand what happens "downstream" to our defect-free work? No matter the setting, if our work meets requirements and we pass it on, are we responsible for how well it integrates into a bigger system?  In this episode, Bill Bellows and Andrew Stotz expand on the interaction between variation and systems and why Dr. Deming regarded Genichi Taguchi's Quality Loss Function as “a better description of the world.” TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.8 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz, and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W Edwards Deming. Today I am continuing my discussion with Bill Bellows, who has spent 30 years helping people apply Dr. Deming's ideas to become aware of how their thinking is holding them back from their biggest opportunities. The topic for today is, in episode 13, Integration Excellence, part two. Bill, take it away.   0:00:31.4 Bill Bellows: Thank you, Andrew. Always a pleasure to connect with you. Alright.   0:00:40.1 AS: Mine too.   0:00:40.1 BB: [laughter] In episode 12, I thought it was great. We shared perspectives on the human side of integration, what it means to be connected, to be synchronous, to feel included, to feel connected, to feel included or connected when something good happens where you're like, well, I was part of that, or to feel separated is when something bad happens. And, we somehow have the ability to not feel associated with that. I pass the puck to you and you hit the slapshot, it goes into the stands, off the goalkeeper. Y'know, girl gets hit in the head and you feel bad, but I go home and I can sleep. And so why is that? And so anyway, but I thought, and listening to it, and I thought it was a lot of fun to look at the human side of feeling connected or feeling separated. And what I wanted to get into tonight, and perhaps in another episode as well, is the physical side of connections.   0:01:46.5 BB: One thing I wanted, and I got a couple anecdotes. I had a woman in class at Rocketdyne years ago, and she said, "Bill, in our organization, we have compassion for one another." And I said, "Compassion is not enough." And, and so you, Andrew, could be in final assembly at this Ford plant, where you're banging things together with a rubber mallet 'cause they're not quite snap fit, and you're banging them together. I mean they all meet print perhaps, but where they are within the requirements is all over the place, and you're having to bring them together. That's called integration. And so when this woman said, in our organization we have compassion for one another, I said, well, that's like me saying, "Andrew, I feel really bad that you're, I can't believe, Andrew go home. You can bang that together tomorrow. You've been banging it together all day." And what I said to her is that "compassion is not enough."   0:02:54.7 BB: When I feel connected to what you're doing, when I begin to understand that the parts you're banging together meet requirements, but how they meet requirements is causing you the issue. Now, the compassion plus my sense of connection, now we're talking. But short of that, what I think is we have organizations where as she would say, we might feel bad for others. And it means I hear about your injuries and your ergonomic training because of all this, but I don't, until I feel associated with that, I just feel bad. But feeling bad is not enough. But I like that, that sentiment. But what I wanna look at tonight is a greater sense of Dr. Taguchi's so called Loss Function and look at more why we should feel more connected to what's happening downstream. So I wanted to throw that out. [chuckle] On the topic of variation, I just started a new cohort with Cal State Northridge University. And this is my, fifth year in the program doing an eight week class in, seminar in quality management. And the cohort model is, anywhere between two dozen and 30 some students that start, the ones I'm getting started a year ago.   0:04:23.5 BB: And they have class after class after class after class. Then a year into the program they get to meet for eight weeks so then onto other professors in the program. So I was showing them, first quarter, second quarter data points from an incident that happened at Rocketdyne years ago. And I was in a staff meeting and the vertical axis is number of accidents per employee. And the horizontal axis is quarter one, quarter two. So the quarter one data point is there, and I don't have the original data, the original data doesn't matter. But what I say to the students is, imagine we've got the first quarter data, what would you expect for the second quarter data? And what's funny is a number of them said, it should be lower. And I said, "Well, based on what?" And it's like, said "Well, we're gonna go off and study what went wrong and we're gonna improve the process."   0:05:20.6 BB: And I said, "Okay, that's all right." So then, I said, "I'll accept that, that's a possibility." Well, then I showed them the actual second data point was lower than the first, which in the meeting I was in, led to the question from one of the senior managers to one of the more, let's say the vice president of operations, "Hey, Andrew, why is safety improved?" To which the executive said, "Because we've let them know safety is important." And so I asked him, "So what do you hear in that?" And we went around and we went around and we went around. It's not the only time it has happened that what they're not hearing is the separation that "we" have let "them" this this. And so in part, I think with my Deming perspective finely tuned. I pick up on those things. And they're not picking on it picking up on it yet which is which is fine. And then but I kept asking, kept asking, kept asking. And then one person said, "Well maybe we need to look for a pattern." I said, "Oh brilliant. What if we've got this run chart of all this extra data?" So then I got them to buy into how easy it is to take two data points draw conclusion up and down. That's called variation. And so it was neat to... The first conversation with them on the topic of variation was really cool. And there's so much more to follow. Well then it, what I wanted to follow with this once upon a time our son when he was in third grade this is 20-some years ago invited me to come to his class.   0:07:07.6 BB: And I don't recall why other than he said, Can you come talk to the class? And I said, Okay fine. So my biggest concern was that the teacher wouldn't know I was coming but she knew I was coming so it was good. So I walk in talked with her briefly and I said I've got some things I'd like to do. She's like oh, I didn't wanna monopolize. But she said okay why don't you show your video? I said I got a video of rocket engines blah blah blah. And then I've got a little exercise I wanna do. Okay we'll do the video then we'll do some reading. So we're doing the reading. And so I'm helping her with the reading. And then what I noticed is now and then a word would come up and she'd write the word on the whiteboard and ask the students if they understood the word. So I clued in, I cued in on that. So when it got to me I wrote the word theory on the whiteboard. This is third graders Andrew, third graders. [chuckle] And I said do any of you know what a theory is? And a one of the girls Shelby whose name I'll never forget, she raises her hand and she says a theory is a prediction of the future. Third grade Andrew third grade! [chuckle] right? Now...   0:08:18.8 AS: And you know what they'd say now they'd say Ethereum is a type of cryptocurrency. [chuckle] Oh Ethereum. No no "theory" not "Ethereum." [laughter]   0:08:30.2 BB: You're right. You're right.   0:08:31.6 AS: Okay. That's a great answer.   0:08:33.9 BB: Well oh but what I tell my students is I didn't correct her. I didn't say well technically a theory is a prediction of the future with a chance of being wrong. But we'll just, I just, oh we'll just stop with that. So I invited her to the front of the room. So she comes to the front of the room and I brought with me this little plastic bag with half a dozen marbles in it. And the bag was also a holes from a three hole punch, little dots of paper. So I held the marble up and I said Shelby I'm going to drop the marble from this height predict where it will land. And what I tell students is she was able to predict where it would land without any data.   0:09:18.3 BB: So she predicts the first data point, the marble lands someplace else. I marked the spot with a marble. I then said okay Shelby I'm gonna drop it the second time. Where will it land? And I'll ask people in class so where do you think she predicted, exactly the same spot of the first drop [chuckle] Exactly right. That's what we do as adults. And so we went through this cycle again and again. And and finally after about 10 drops where these you know 10 different dots on the floor I said Shelby where's it gonna land? And she drew a circle, she said somewhere in here which is kind of like a control limit you know kind of thing.   0:09:55.9 BB: So the one thing I'll say is and I'm sure you've heard people say well you can't predict the future. No, as Dr. Deming would say [chuckle] you know he gave the example you might recall of how will I go home? I'm gonna take a bus. Will the bus... I'm gonna take the train. Will the train arrive? And so I'd ask adults in the class that says how many drove here today? All the hands go up. And I said so at the end of the day will you walk in the direction of where you left your car? Yes. What is your theory? It's still there. [chuckle] Is that a guarantee? No! [chuckle] So I throw that out as a predictions and her sense of variation and this sense of a third grader not acknowledging, I mean one understanding having some sense of a theory, not a lot of understanding of variation but I don't think that's unique to third graders.   0:10:51.8 BB: So that brings us to...there's variation. We can look at the variation in the Red Beads. Okay the Red Beads are caused by the system not the workers taken separately. Then we got into variation and things that are good. And when I introduced the students to last night in class is, I asked them "So how often do you go to meetings where you work to discuss things that are good and going well?" And I get the standard answer, "rarely." I said, "Well, why is that?" "Well 'cause we got, we're focusing on the bad." They said, "to make it good." "Well why do we focus on the bad to make it good? Why don't we focus on the good?" "Well the good is good." And we went around the room, went around the room online and and I said "what's the likelihood that we could prevent bad from happening by focusing on the good while it's good?" And it's like, "...interesting." And so where that leads us to is, is two aspects of looking at things that are good.   0:11:57.1 BB: One is the better we understand the variation of things that are good whether that's on a run chart or a control chart. My theory is we could prevent bad from happening by keeping track of the bad. Whether it's your pulse, your weight, [chuckle] how much gas is in your car. And so there's if we focus, if we pay attention to the good with some frequency you know every second, every hour, once a month, whatever it is, we could prevent an accumulation of damage to an appliance at home. Another aspect to focusing on things that are good is that it can improve integration which is boom, here we are. And that integration that I mentioned last time that understanding integration could be looking at candidates for a new hire and looking for who is the best fit because there's degrees of fit. Fit is not absolute. Last time we talked about reflections of an engineer who is worried that his hardware on the space shuttle main engine may have contributed to the disaster of the second... Of the Columbia space shuttle blowing up in reentry. Well let me share another story from a coworker at Rocketdyne.   0:13:19.8 BB: And this guy's father worked at Rocketdyne in the '60s. So in 1999, 30 years after the lunar landing, there's news teams, you know, from the local TV stations and television. It's 30 year anniversary of the Lunar Landing. And Rocketdyne was known for the Apollo engines that get the vehicle off the ground, as well as the engines that got the, Orbiter off the moon. So there's an article in the newspaper a couple days later, and this coworker is quoted and he says, "Boy, I would've loved... My father worked here back in the '60s, just to be a fly on the wall would be so cool. Oh my gosh, it'd be so cool." And the article ends with him saying how exciting it is to feel like you're part of something big. That's what we talked about last time.   0:14:09.8 BB: And I used to use that quote from him on a regular basis because it, the article was about something that happened at Rocketdyne. Then I would share that this is a quote from a coworker. And after quoting him for several years, it dawned on me, I've never met this guy, so I call him up one day and he answers and I say, "Hi, this Bill Bellows." And he laughs a little bit. And I said, "have we ever met?" And he says, "No, no, no," he said, "But you quote me in your class." And I said, "Well, I apologize for never calling you sooner." I said, "I do quote you." And I said, "Let me share with you the quote." I said, "you feel how exciting it is to feel like you're part of something big?" To which he says, "I wish I still felt that way." [chuckle] And I said, "can I quote you on that?" And so you can join an organization with this sense of being connected, but then depending on how the organization is running and you're blamed for the Red Beads, that you may lose that feeling.   0:15:15.6 BB: And on another anecdote, it's pretty cool. Our daughter, when she was in fourth grade, was in a class, they were studying water systems. And the class assignment was to look at a, they had an eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper with a picture of a kitchen sink on it, like a 3D view of a sink with a pipe out and a pipe in. And the assignment was, we're about to study water systems. How does the water get to the sink, where's the water go?   0:15:47.2 BB: And so my wife and I were there for the open house and there were 20 of these on the wall colored with crayons showing all these different interpretations of water coming in, water going out. And I was fascinated by that. And eventually got copies of them and the teacher wasn't sure what I was doing with them. Well, I turned them into laminated posters. And so I gave one to our daughter one day. I said, take this to Mrs. Howe so she sees what we're doing. And so the following weekend I bumped into this woman at a soccer field, but she wasn't dressed like a teacher. She's dressed in a hoodie. And she says to me, "Allison shared with me the posters." And I'm looking at her thinking, "how do I know who you are?" She pulls the hood back. She says "I'm Allison's fourth grade..." Oh! I, her comment was when Allison shared with me how you're using those posters, handing them out, and people are inspired by them. And she says, "I cried." So that you get that emotion for free Andrew. [chuckle] Right. And that's all the integration stuff.   0:16:58.5 BB: Now let's talk about Dr. Taguchi and his Loss Function. So, um, the Taguchi Loss Function says Dr. Deming in Out of the Crisis is a better view of the world. The Taguchi Loss Function is a better view of the world. Dr. Taguchi says following...   0:17:15.3 AS: Wait a minute. I was confused on that. You're saying Deming is saying that Taguchi is better, or Taguchi is saying Deming's better?   0:17:22.3 BB: Dr. Deming in The New... In Out of the Crisis, Dr. Deming wrote "the Taguchi Loss Function is a better view of the world."   0:17:30.3 AS: Okay, got it.   0:17:34.5 BB: And that's what amongst the things that I read into Deming's work and I thought, boy, that's quite an endorsement. Dr. Taguchi is known for saying quality is the minimum of loss imparted to society, to the society by a product after shipping to the customer. So what does that mean? And we'll come back to that. Deming met Dr. Taguchi in the 1950s. There's a, at least once, there's photos I've seen in Deming's archives of the two of them on stage at a big statistical conference in India, and I know they met in September, 1960 at the Deming Prize ceremony where Dr. Taguchi was honored with what's known as the Deming Prize in Literature. There's Deming prizes for corporations, and there's also Deming prizes for individuals.   0:18:35.0 BB: And Taguchi won it 1960 for his work on the, on his, this quality-loss function concept. 1960. So then in 1983, Larry Sullivan, a Ford executive, was on a study mission to Japan, and he wrote an article about this for the American Society for Quality in 1983 the title of the article is “Variability Reduction: A New Approach to Quality,” so if any of our listeners are ASQ members, well I'm sure you can find a copy of it. The Variability Reduction: A New Approach to Quality. Well, Andrew in 1983, Sullivan's article, 23 years after Taguchi's awarded this Deming Prize in literature, I'm convinced that's the first time Taguchi's Loss Function was heard about in the States. 23 years later. And in this article, Sullivan says, he says, "In March of 1982, I was part of a group from Ford that visited Japan, we studied quality systems out of variety of suppliers," this is ostensibly the first time the auto industry in the States is sending people to Japan.   0:19:52.8 BB: Right so 1980, summer of 1980 is the Deming documentary Why Japan? If Japan Can, Why Can't We? And so here Ford is in 1982, sending a team over. I know it was the late '80s, I believe, when Boeing sent executives over. So then in this article, he says, "The most important thing we learned, right, in this study mission, is that quality in these companies means something different than what it means in the US. That it's a totally different discipline." And so this is like the beginnings of people hearing about Dr. Deming in 1980. They're now hearing about Dr. Taguchi's work through Larry Sullivan. And it turns out Larry Sullivan and Dr. Taguchi became business partners and set up Dr Taguchi's consulting company in the States, which still exists. So they became fast friends and I've met the two of them many times.   0:20:53.6 BB: What Taguchi is saying is, is when it comes to things coming together, we talked about integration, whether that's combining, mixing, joining, weaving, this is the synchronicity. So in sports, we're talking about not, not where I am on the field, but where I am relative to the others, in music, and we're talking earlier about music and I've, I've played a musical instrument one time, Andrew with a group and I was with a, hockey band on a road trip when I was in college. And the cymbal player, they were missing, so they asked me to bang the cymbal, "you want me to do what?"   0:21:36.9 AS: When we signal you.   0:21:39.4 BB: So I'm boom! and what I didn't realize is I'm controlling the pace, like being in is like, okay, slow down, slow down. And I and a former student last year in the Cal State Northridge class who plays with one of the Beach Boys, and I went to watch her in the play and I was asking about these speakers, which are on stage, facing the players. And I said, so what are those about? She said, "Those help us stay synchronized." I said, "what do you mean?" She says, "the speakers next to me," she's the keyboard player. She said, "What I'm listening to in those speakers is the drumbeat. I need to make sure that I am playing synchronous with a drummer." And then what about the others? "Well, the others have their own speakers synchronized. They get to select who they wanna be synchronized to." And so I throw that out because we take for granted when we're listening to Coldplay, whoever these musicians are, we're not paying attention, at least I'm not paying attention to what if they're playing it... What if they're not as synchronous? How would that sound? 'Cause we're so used to it sounding pretty good.   0:23:00.1 BB: And, um, so there we go with synchronization and things fitting together, it's not just that the note was good, but is it played at the right rhythm and pace and, um, you know, with timing. So we talked about the Loss Function. We talked about last time about ripeness of fruit. Depending on what we're doing with the bananas, we wanna put it into a muffin mixed or eat, slice it up. Are we looking for something soft and hard? And I say that because what Dr. Taguchi is talking about is for a set of requirements, a min and a max, we're used to a sense of anything between the min and the max is okay, is "good."   0:23:45.2 BB: What Taguchi is saying is there's the possibility that there's an ideal place to be. And how do you know what that ideal place to be is? Well pay it, as you're delivering that piece of fruit to the next person, whatever it is, to the next person, deliver them something on the very low end of the requirement and see what they do with it. Then, it could be the next hour or the next time you give them something a little bit, a little bit further along that axis. How are they doing? How are they doing? How are they doing? And what you're looking to see is, how, how does, what is the effect of where you are within requirements on them? And this is how Toyota ends up with things being snap fit, because they're not just saying, "Throw everything to Andrew in final assembly." They all come together.   0:24:42.3 BB: My theory is they're doing what we do at home, at home I create the part, I cut the piece of wood. I'm, making the part, but I'm also using it. So I'm the one responsible for the part and integration, in a work setting that may not be the case. So what Taguchi is talking about is there could be a sweet spot in the requirement. And so towards that end, if we're talking about baseball in a strike zone, the World Series is teams are defined, not that I was gonna watch this year, the Dodgers, we're out of it. But in baseball, there's, for those understand baseball, there's a strike zone. If the ball somewhere in that rectangular ball zone is called a strike, outside is called a ball. And depending on who the batter is, it might not matter where the ball is in the strike zone, 'cause this player can't hit the ball anyway. But for another player, you may have to put that strike somewhere in particular to make it harder for them to hit. And that's what the loss function is about, is, is paying attention to how this is used and I wanna share a couple of stories that are, one that's kind of hard to believe. Well, I'd say one that's easy to believe. As you're driving down the highway, Andrew, in Los Angeles, right? You've lived out here.   0:26:07.2 AS: Oh, yeah.   0:26:07.4 BB: And no matter where you're driving down, right, do you stay to the left side of the lane, Andrew? Do you stay to the right side of the lane? Or do you kind of go down the middle of the lane, Andrew?   0:26:17.9 AS: I'm kind of middle of the lane guy.   0:26:20.5 BB: Yeah. And I think that people in the other lanes, you know, like that 'cause I know when I drift to the left, you're like, Hey, what are you doing? So being towards the middle is saying, I get the entire length of myself, but being down the middle is probably, what is that? It's minimum loss to myself and others. So I spoke at a, at a NASA conference ages ago and learned, this is uh '97, '98 timeframe, and I learned that the two greatest opportunities for destruction of the space shuttle are at launch, you can have a catastrophic failure, or at landing. And so at launch, it could be a problem with the engine, any of the engines or the solid rocket motors. Okay, so that I can understand. But I'm thinking, what's the issue with landing? Well, I say, well, the issue with landing at that time was the space shuttle's coming in at a couple hundred miles an hour.   0:27:24.9 BB: And when you're landing on a dry lake bed called Edwards Air Force Base, it's not a big deal. You got all that open space anywhere you want. You just get her down. But then in that timeframe, NASA converted. It was easier for them to have the shuttle land in Florida because they don't, they don't have to fly the shuttle across country. The shuttle is going to land there, launch there. So what they were talking about is, a lot of the pilots for the space shuttle are military pilots. They're used to landing in the center of the runway, Andrew, in the center of the runway. Why? 'cause they're landing on an aircraft carrier. And if I'm a little bit too far from the center, one way or the other, I either crash into the structure or I'm in the ditch and enter the water. So they've got these military pilots landing the space shuttle, wanting to be right down the center. And so they said what happened was if they land and they're a few feet to the left or to the right, going a couple hundred miles an hour, should they quickly steer the nose gear to be on the center?   0:28:32.5 BB: And he said, when you're going that fast, if you steer, you may cause the shuttle to just flip. When you're, once you touch down, don't steer to the center of the runway. Just go, go straight. No more steering. And they kept having this message and it kept being ignored and they kept having the message that kept being ignored so what was the solution, Andrew? You ready?   0:28:58.7 AS: Yes, here, tell me.   0:29:00.8 BB: They painted the center stripe to be wider. [laughter]   0:29:05.5 AS: I was thinking they were going to paint like 10 stripes so that there was no center one.   0:29:10.3 BB: So the center stripe is like three feet wide. You can't miss it. Well, and so I use that because what they're saying is when you land at the Kennedy Space Center, you could be off target left and right a lot, and it's not a big deal, we got a lot of space here.   0:29:29.4 AS: Yep.   0:29:29.6 BB: And what does that mean relative to loss of the vehicle, relative to bad things happening downstream? The loss function that Dr. Taguchi would describe as a parabola, and a parabola being a curve that has a minimum, and then the curve goes up faster and faster to the left, faster and faster to the right. That's if the parabola opens up, it could open down. But in this case, Taguchi draws the loss function as being opening upwards as like a bell and it gets steeper and steeper. But, what, but depending on your system, it could be very steep, which is you're landing on an aircraft carrier, or it could be very shallow.   0:30:13.6 BB: So when I ride on a bike trail in Santa Clarita where I live, I go down the middle of the bike trail. And to my right, depending on which direction I'm going is a split rail fence so I don't go into the Arroyo, which is this gully for all the water running off. And so there's... I go down there and the worst, I stay away from that split rail. When I ride in Long Beach where you went to college where our daughter lives, there is no split rail. So I stay not in the center when I ride in Long Beach. I ride to not the center of my lane, I steer closer to the to the center of the overall lane, which means I'm closer to the bikes going the other way. And that's and that's my understanding of: I go off that off that side is gonna be a bad day.   0:31:08.0 BB: And so that's what Taguchi is saying relative to the loss function. But I think a better way to think about loss, I think that may be kind of a weird concept. I think if we think about integration, and in making the integration easier or harder. So again, if we're talking about space shuttle landing, maybe the loss makes sense. But if we're talking about putting things together, we've talked about the snap-fit that Toyota pickup truck that Toyota was producing in the late 1960s. And what struck me when I first read that is, Holy cow, they've developed a system of hardware which goes together without mallets, and I immediately associated that with what I had heard that Dr. Taguchi was influencing, working with them, consulting with them back in the '50s. And I thought that kind of fits. And so why aren't things here in the States, why are they being banged together? Because over in the States, going back to Larry Sullivan's article, we've got an explanation of quality which is "part" focused. Everything meets requirements. And so what really amazed me is that Toyota in the late '60s, had things which were going together well.   0:32:25.9 BB: Ford in 1982/83 timeframe, they had been working with Dr. Deming for a couple years. They discovered that a transmission they had designed and were building was also being built by Mazda. And part because they owned one third of Mazda and they were outsourcing production. And these transmissions went into Ford cars. And what I've mentioned in a previous episode is that the Ford warranty people figured out that the Mazda transmission, which was designed by Ford, but built by Mazda, had one third fewer complaints than the Ford transmission designed by Ford, built by Ford. And in this study that Ford did, led by their executives, and then they sent out the documentation to their supply chain and it, and it talked about the need to... Their explanation was what Mazda was doing was what's known as "piece to piece consistency." And what they found is that the parts, instead of being all over the place in terms of dimensions and whatnot, that they were far more uniform, yet what you won't hear in that video, what they talk about is within Ford, we're all over the place we're consuming the greatest, a big portion of the tolerance. We've got scrap and rework. But these Mazda parts, boy they only consume a fraction of the tolerance compared to us. And that's the difference. And that's the difference.   0:34:02.6 BB: And so what I wanna close with is, having less variation is not the issue that gets us back to precision, but not accuracy. So my explanation is that Mazda was actually focusing on accuracy - being on target of the respective parts. And as a result, they got great functionality outta the transmission. But what Ford, at least, I'm willing to bet the path Ford was going, was saying, "oh look Andrew, their parts are more consistent than ours. Consistency is the name of the game." And that's precision, not accuracy. So what I wanted to do tonight is build upon what we did last time, bring it to this loss function as being a parabola. Depending on what happens downstream, you don't know how steep that parabola is, and not knowing how steep it is, we don't know how much effort we should spend on our end upfront providing those components to improve integration 'cause we don't know how bad the integration is.   0:35:17.6 AS: And that's a wrap. Bill, on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute, I want to thank you again for the discussion and for listeners, remember to go to deming.org to continue your journey. If you want to keep in touch with Bill, you can just find him right there on LinkedIn. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming. "People are entitled to joy in work."

Today's Story: Hypersonic Weapons Training

We get the opportunity to talk with Megan Person the News Chief from NASA Armstrong at Edwards Air Force Base. Megan is a wealth of knowledge and she shares what its like to be apart of the NASA team. She talks about the technology and creative minds at work at NASA and how they make their technical reports available to the public  https://ntrs.nasa.gov/ NASA also makes available free STEM ciriculum for local schools https://www.nasa.gov/learning-resources/ Technology transfer is also free https://technology-afrc.ndc.nasa.gov/

To see the video of this show, click or copy link - https://youtu.be/R4kK9W-UkcA In this Episode, I cover a shocking case of multiple UFO incursions into the controlled air space of Edwards Air Force Base over a period of 6 hours, which has declassified control tower audio, many witnesses, multiple radar station hits, lots of detailed documentation, and corroboration. *NICAP ARCHIVE OF THIS CASE* - https://www.nicap.org/edwards65dir.htm *FULL AUDIO* - https://archive.org/details/UFOOverEdwardsAFB*TRANSCRIPT* - https://www.nicap.org/docs/edwards_trans_corr.htmA Weekly Livestream Show with a focus on recounting cases and stories of the Strange and Unexplained, Mysterious Events, Weird Places, and the Unexpected. If you like stories about cases of the Strange and Unexplained, this show is for you.Each week will be 30 to 45 minutes focusing on a single case. From UFO encounters, to paranormal events, alien abductions, hauntings, mysterious places and entities, and a host of other topics will be covered.If you enjoy the show, please leave a review..!!TALES OF THE STRANGE AND UNEXPLAINED PLAYLISThttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLneWjPNXc1RzwyIVe6x54g_n64QcvuVfd GET ACCESS to the Live Cameras on Skinwalker Ranch with a FREE TRIAL for the Insider Membership Website - https://tinyurl.com/skinwalkerinsiderVisit my website with Blogs, Videos, and Podcast direct links - https://strangeparadigms.com/

The Mach 3+ SR-71 Blackbird is one of the most famous aircraft to come out of the Lockheed Skunkworks. We discuss this amazing aircraft with USAF RSO Phil Soucy. Phil is a graduate of the United States Air Force Test Pilot School at Edwards Air Force Base and he served 20 years with the Air Force in a wide range of operational and technology positions. As a rated navigator he has over 2000 hours of flight experience in over 30 different aircraft ranging from the F-4 Phantom to the amazing Mach 3+ SR-71 Blackbird. “SocialFlight Live!” is a live broadcast dedicated to supporting General Aviation pilots and enthusiasts during these challenging times. Register at SocialFlightLive.com to join the live broadcast every Tuesday evening at 8pm ET (be sure to join early because attendance is limited for the live broadcasts).

On Tuesday August 31st, 1954 as President Eisenhower addressed the American Legion, it had been a busy ten days for American aviation. On Sunday, August 22nd, Braniff Airways' Douglas C-47-DL Skytrain crashed during a flight from Waterloo, to Mason City, Iowa. Twelve of the nineteen aboard died. The next day, A U.S. Air Force Lockheed C-130 Hercules flew its first flight at Burbank, California. And on August 25th, U.S. Air Force Captain Joseph C. McConnell, the top-scoring American jet ace in history, died in a crash when his F-86H Sabre fighter-bomber malfunctioned during a test flight at Edwards Air Force Base, California. Meanwhile, Barrie Craig, Confidential Investigator took to the air with a play called “Hay is For Homicide.” Parley Baer played Jake. Also heard in the cast was Jack Moyles, Vivi Janiss, and Joyce McClusky. Arthur Jacobson directed the production. Airing opposite Barrie Craig at 8:30PM eastern time was High Adventure over WOR-Mutual, Stop The Music over CBS, and Watkins Committee Testimonies concerning Senator Joseph McCarthy on ABC. McCarthy would be censured by the senate in December. Senator McCarthy and the Red Scare has been covered extensively on episodes 123 through 128 of Breaking Walls on the first six months of 1954.

The Cognitive Crucible is a forum that presents different perspectives and emerging thought leadership related to the information environment. The opinions expressed by guests are their own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of or endorsement by the Information Professionals Association. During this episode, US Army MAJ Steve Schiovani discusses his Master's thesis from the US Army Command and General Staff College entitled: Lying, in Wait: Competitive Deception in the Indo-Pacific. The United States faces its stated pacing adversary, China, in competition in the Indo-Pacific region. As the Joint Force reorients, deception has re-emerged in updated doctrine as a competitive tool. The updated doctrine encourages the use of deception but provides little unclassified guidance on training or implementation of deception outside of tactical engagements. This thesis analyzes the foundations of strategic deception applied to the context of current US and Chinese competition in the Indo-Pacific region. Deception is modeled as a competitive wargame focused on the Indo-Pacific theater. Fundamental aspects of deception tied to US and Chinese strategic cultural lenses and objectives form the basis for the game's model. Analysis of the wider concept of deception reveals challenges and opportunities for the US in employing strategic deception below the level of armed conflict. This thesis offers an avenue for training deception planning using an experiential learning method. Research Question:  Resources: Cognitive Crucible Podcast Episodes Mentioned #146 Sebastian Bae on Gaming #90 Dave Acosta on Informationally Disadvantaged The Tao of Deception by Ralph Sawyer Lever of Power by Ralph Sawyer A Theory of Fun for Game Design by Raph Koster Counterdeception Principles and Applications for National Security by  Michael Bennett, Edward Waltz Information Warfare and Organizational Decision-Making by Alexander Kott Link to full show notes and resources https://information-professionals.org/episode/cognitive-crucible-episode-159 Guest Bio:  MAJ Steven Schiavoni commissioned in 2010 from Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology in Terre Haute, IN. He started service as an Infantry Officer in the Pennsylvania National Guard where he served as a rifle platoon leader and battalion mortar platoon leader. In 2016 he transferred to the Army Reserve and became a Functional Area 30 - Information Operations officer. Since then he has served and deployed in multiple roles including company commander, sensitive activities planner, and information operations planner. He is a graduate of Infantry Basic Officer Leader's Course, Maneuver Captain's Career Course, FA-30 Qualification Course, and Basic Airborne Course among others. He is currently part of the Information Advantage Scholars Program at the Army's Command and General Staff Officers Course. In his civilian life, MAJ Schiavoni works as a Department of the Air Force civilian conducting Defense Cyber Operations as part of the 412th Communications Squadron at Edwards Air Force Base, CA. About: The Information Professionals Association (IPA) is a non-profit organization dedicated to exploring the role of information activities, such as influence and cognitive security, within the national security sector and helping to bridge the divide between operations and research. Its goal is to increase interdisciplinary collaboration between scholars and practitioners and policymakers with an interest in this domain. For more information, please contact us at communications@information-professionals.org. Or, connect directly with The Cognitive Crucible podcast host, John Bicknell, on LinkedIn. Disclosure: As an Amazon Associate, 1) IPA earns from qualifying purchases, 2) IPA gets commissions for purchases made through links in this post.

On this episode of Expanded Perspectives, the guys start the show, talking about how fast their summer has gone by, shark week, and Kyle's upcoming vacation down on the Texas coast. Then, a group of young forest rangers in the Great Smoky Mountains were searching for a lost dog. They encountered a large bipedal creature with a dog-like face during the search. Next, a person writes in with another possible Glimmer Man sighting up in Canada. After the break, Cam brings up some strange stories about The Yucca Man and other strange sightings of this Bigfoot-like creature. It goes by a number of names, including the Mojave Bigfoot, the Sierra Highway Devil, and even the slightly endearing nickname "Marvin of the Mojave." His appearance isn't limited to the relatively recent arrival of the Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center. The local native tribes have been telling stories of "hairy devils" who have lived in the deserts among the Joshua Trees for as long as native tribes have been around. As the area around the San Bernardino mountains began to develop in the middle of the 20th century, it seems the wild man, the Yucca Man, were pushed out of their native habitat and headfirst into developing civilization. Strange reports of large, bipedal beasts were reported as far west as Palmdale and Edwards Air Force Base. All of this and more on this installment of Expanded Perspectives! Show Notes: Rangers Encounter Tall Dog-Like Bipedal Cryptid in the Great Smoky Mountains Sponsors: AG1: If you want to take ownership of your health, try AG1 and get a FREE 1 year supply of Vitamin D and 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. Go to drinAG1.com/EXPANDED ExpressVPN: Stop letting strangers invade your online privacy. Protect yourself at expressvpn.com/expanded to get three extra months for FREE Lumi Labs: Microdose is available Nationwide! Go to microdose.com and use the promo code EXPANDED to FREE shipping and 30% off your first order Want to Share Your Story? Email: expandedperspectives@yahoo.com Hotline: 888-393-2783

Our guest this episode is Anthony Poponi. He says about himself, “At my core, I am focused on reducing suffering at the levels of the individual, the workplace and the community”. As you will hear, this is exactly what he does. In 2016 Anthony started his consulting and speaking company, Focus On The 40. As he will tell you he is committed to helping focus on achieving the full %40 of happiness over which we have control. Talking with Anthony on this episode was intriguing for me and, I think, we challenged each other in many different ways. As he mentioned to me we are aligned in so many ways, but as I observe, we come to the same points from different and both relevant places. This episode was as fun as I could ever expect one to be. I hope you will feel the same way. About the Guest: ANTHONY POPONI is the FOUNDER OF FOCUS ON THE 40, LEAD PRESENTER AND HUMORIST. MY MISSION. At my core, I am focused on reducing suffering at the levels of the individual, the workplace and the community. People are struggling, burned out, and directionless more so than ever before. We're disengaged and looking for inspiration, deeper connection and a sense of purpose—and this is challenging our workplaces at a time when we need to get the most out of our people. We've been led astray, seeking happiness by chasing the myths marketed to us. My work is centered on refocusing on the 40% of our happiness that we control through the active crafting of our lives which includes pushing through the hard parts. I've been told I'm “tenacious about my happiness.” I love that phrase and want to bring that mindset of actively crafting a fulfilling life to my audiences. INCREDIBLE DELIVERY. Humans are wired to feel good when connecting with others, and events are a huge part of what's been missing since the whole pandemic thing started. Conferences, retreats and team-building are important opportunities to reconnect and reengage. So, I urge you to make your events fun and inspirational by finding the right talent (ahem, cough, me). And events are hard to pull off. I have over two decades of experience presenting at events of all types including grand galas, festivals, corporate events, conferences and intimate parties. You get this vast experience in a human smoothie of “subject matter expert” and “comedic genius” on stage and BOOM! Your event goes from “good” to “memorable” and “talked about.” SERVICE FOCUSED. In my work, I take pride in solving challenges for businesses and for associations looking to provide value for their members. When at home, I'm honored to be part of a community of caring, passionate, driven and yet funky people in Bend, Oregon. Service is important to me and I find joy in volunteering my time as a Board member for the Boys & Girls Clubs of Bend, Commute Options, and I've also emceed about every community event under the sun. It lights me up! HUMBLED OUTDOORS. When I'm not working, I'm usually outside seeking open spaces and especially water. You can find me exploring the breadth of life's humbling experiences through snowboarding (below average) and playing hockey (really poorly). When snow turns to water, I'll be rafting (flipping) and fishing (it's not called catching for a reason), on my motorcycle (generally not enjoying), hiking, and smiling while mountain biking. Or navigating a series of near-death experiences on a surfboard. I'm having fun. Performing improv and live comedy keeps my brain churning and making people laugh and engage with life is an element of my purpose. I occasionally have a bruised and scraped-up body (and almost always a bruised ego). But I'm happy Ways to connect with Anthony: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthonypoponi/ https://www.facebook.com/AnthonyPoponi About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi, once again, thanks for joining us here on unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet love the unexpected part. Today, our guest is Anthony propone, who is going to be as unexpected as they get. Because he among other things, is a humorist. He is very committed to trying to eliminate suffering at the individual, the workplace and the community levels. And we're going to get into a lot of that. I don't want to give it away because it's no fun. He's supposed to be the expert in that. So Anthony, welcome to unstoppable mindset. I'm I don't thanks for having me. Well, glad you're here. So why don't we start I love to start by learning a little bit more about you in general growing up and all those early Anthony things? Well, that's a start.   Anthony Poponi ** 02:08 Yeah, let's get started. I mean, I've we're gonna have to have multiple episodes here to cover my entire life story. But I'll give you the quick version.   Michael Hingson ** 02:14 Oh, you can start off with in the beginning, it's okay. In the beginning,   Anthony Poponi ** 02:19 there was a big bang and the universe became and then the you know, I love Calvin and Hobbes, I don't know if you're a fan, but he always has these crazy stories about in the beginning. And he has this one script where like, you know, basically God creates the universe. And that Calvin, the six year old little boy, is the culmination of all of the things that the universe has put together. So I think of myself as that self centered narcissist as well at times. Yeah, I grew up on the East Coast. And I think the thing that's been really formative for me and and it wired me in a certain way that I really appreciate is I grew up in a portion of my life from about age five to age 12, in poverty, living in low income housing, living off of what was food stamps back in the day living with my mom, I was five, my sister was three, my brother was one, of course, I was the favorite. And,   Michael Hingson ** 03:10 like you best, wow,   Anthony Poponi ** 03:11 yeah. And so my sister and brother brought his grandkids and then I became, you know, a second and third fiddle. And so now at least, I'm still on the podium. But I think that was really important for me, I mean, my dad was was, and still is, in my life. My mom was a loving mother, that environments really challenging. And we know a lot from the research into psychology about how impactful those times can be in our, in our lives. And, and so I think it's been really interesting for me to take the good and the bad from that, you know, the bad is the adverse childhood experiences, which is the technical term. And the good is it made me wired to serve other people, you know, I was really fortunate to have others take care of me. And it was given a lot of chances in my life. And I want to turn that back around and give that back to the world. And so I think it's really driven me as a surface mindset person.   Michael Hingson ** 03:58 What, what made that leap? What made you make that leap? I mean, that certainly is different than what a lot of people do with their lives and so on. I love it. And I have that attitude. But I know a lot of people don't so kind of what really made that leap happened.   Anthony Poponi ** 04:13 Yeah, it's, it's a really good question. And I don't know, I mean, maybe it's a deep desire to have the sense of belonging, and you know, something in there about like, wanting to contribute and wanting to be wanted, I think, in a way, and it's not that my parents didn't want me it's not that I wasn't surrounded by people that showed me love and affection. But maybe it has maybe some, some fear based wiring to it, but I think it's turned into something that's been positive, you know, for, for me and for, you know, for anyone I'm in contact with, not, not anyone, but   Michael Hingson ** 04:47 some people. Some people, some people can exercise away from their life and that'd be fine too. Yeah, you'd be happier, which is always, always a good thing to do. Well, Older saw subtraction. That's right. And the conservation of happiness. It's a good theory. So you, you went to college and all that,   Anthony Poponi ** 05:10 yeah, I went to college and I have a degree in Biology from the University of Georgia. And for the longest time, up until about 2014, I use that science degree in a lot of different ways. I think one of the things that was really valuable for me and even sort of like in, in this definition of like, alleviating suffering for others, it was for me first, you know, that there was, I remember this one person who I really respected, saying, well, you'll always be nonprofit, environmental, Anthony. And like, that was the label thrust upon me. And I made strides and steps towards breaking that label intentionally and unintentionally. And I think as you kind of like, drop some labels, you can add new labels, you know, or you could probably still add labels even while you have existing labels. But there was this kind of transition for me being like a nonprofit, Anthony anymore. Second, environmental, I started working for boys and girls club that had nothing to do with the environment. And then I was like, Oh, well, now I'm a professional speaker, Anthony. And what's that label look like? And what are these other labels that I would like to add versus maybe later labels that I've accepted at this point?   Michael Hingson ** 06:17 Well, how did you make the jump to I assume it's full time professionally speaking?   Anthony Poponi ** 06:22 Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a mix of professional speaking and workplace consulting. So I do a lot of work with workplace culture. That's still probably professional speaking, depending on how you you slice. Good point. Yeah, it's, um, you know, years ago, I mean, I've always gravitated towards roles where I could be front and center, I love speaking in front of audiences, I have a talent. I think I had a talent for it. And then I develop the skill and develop more of the skill set to do it better and better. And it's been just kind of an evolution, you know, there was a while back in, like, probably 2008 or 2007. You know, someone came up and said, Hey, we're doing this fundraiser for the Animal Welfare League. I was like, Oh, that's great. I have to rescue dogs and, and they said, Would you like to be our auctioneer? And I said, Sure. And then I said, What does that mean? You know, and so it was a yes. And then I did that. And I had a lot of fun with it. I did it the second year. And then I just started paying attention to like, well, what things really bring me joy, and how can I serve people? And how does it not have to necessarily be through nonprofits? And so that kind of led me to just continue index more and more emceeing and then developing my expertise in positive psychology and workplace culture and leadership and all that.   Michael Hingson ** 07:36 What were you doing when you were focusing on biology? What was your day job?   Anthony Poponi ** 07:42 Oh, it was a lot of things that kind of played with all of it. I was a middle school science teacher. For a while I was an environmental consultant, I worked with sea turtles for a long time and the Caribbean and in Florida. I was doing watershed restoration work, Source Water Protection work. So that kind of for nonprofits running those as like an executive director. So it was all over the place. I played with all of it. And I found I mean, I love science, I still love science. And I'm doing work for for the Fish and Wildlife Service these days doing some, some work with for corporate wellness. So it's been really nice to kind of tap back into that world. But I've never been a good scientist, I've been a very good communicator of science versus being the one that should generate the data.   Michael Hingson ** 08:23 I think I probably fit more in that role as well. I wanted to teach physics ever since I started getting degrees. And I thought that was going to be the way I went and went a little bit different way. But by the same token, I think we're all still teachers at heart in one way or another. And so for me, it's led to a number of different things. And now among other things, doing a podcast, which is a lot of fun, and get to meet people like you. Now the real burning question is what did the sea turtles think of your speeches?   Anthony Poponi ** 08:57 I don't know that reptilians have a whole lot of emotional repertoire to share them back with me. How do you get connected to physics? Like what was the what was the thing that   Michael Hingson ** 09:06 I have always been interested in science. And so when I was like, seven and eight years old, I got a radio kit. My parents bought me a radio kit that I could could build some little radios with crystal sets and so on, and, and so they helped teach me the schematics so I could do it. And I've just always been involved with it. I got a ham radio license at age 14, and have had that license ever since. And so radio and physics have always been a part of what I did. And when when I was in high school, General Science first year, the last quarter, the general science teacher, Mr. Doyle said, you know, you look pretty bored here. And I said, Well, I understand all this stuff. And he said, well, so last quarter of the year, and I know you have a ham radio license, and the senior physics class is studying electricity magnetism, we're gonna send you there for your last quarter. That wasn't a change. But I've just always liked it. My dad was an electronics and electrical engineer, ran the precision measurements equipment lab at Edwards Air Force Base. So it was it was in my life life and in my blood and then went to UC Irvine and had a lot of fun there. And I've been doing things that have been technical ever since. So it's really not a problem at all. While I was at UC Irvine, I also worked at the radio station. So that kind of entered the bloodstream as well. That's really interesting.   Anthony Poponi ** 10:30 Yeah, that's, so we both have had this path of like, we started somewhere with something was science for both of us. Like that's the overlap I see. And I think what's really interesting is I was just reading this book the other day, and I'm trying to remember what it was. Maybe it's Richard lighters, the power of purpose, and he was talking about Peter Drucker, who's no pass on? Yes. And, and the quote from Peter Drucker, and I'm gonna paraphrase is that those of us that figure out our career at age 18, and stay the course on that thing the entire time, it's a one in a million chance. Yeah, I think that that, and he didn't back it up with data, it was more of just a commentary. And I just found that comment, I was like, Yeah, I think a lot more people just need to be given that sort of like space to say, I'm taking my best guess, and age 18, or whatever it is, as I'm picking as either a career path or a vocational study, or going to college for something that, just try it, you know, and if it doesn't feel right, it doesn't fit. And you keep learning more about yourself and more about what lights you up and what you can give back to the world, like look for that synergy. And I think that that's where a lot of the suffering exists for people.   Michael Hingson ** 11:37 I think for me, actually, I, I ended up sticking with the one career and the career wasn't being a scientist, but the career was teaching and communicating. And I've always had that. And in one way or another, I have been involved with that. So when I left college, I had a job that that eventually, within a couple of years had me selling full time, and I've been selling ever since. But anyone who really understand sales will understand and know that sales is really about teaching and advising, if you do it, right. And so I think it's just been that way all along. And then of course, September 11 happened, and people started saying, gee, come and tell us what we should learn and the natural speaking process took over. So that was a lot of fun. And frankly, for me, I don't tend to really understand what so many people say about public speaking being such a great fear, because I'm comfortable with it. And I don't think it has anything to do with seeing or not seeing the audience because I know they're there. But rather, it's a matter that if you learn that you're not talking to an audience, but you're talking with an audience, and you want them to be drawn in and be a part of what you do. Why would you ever be afraid?   Anthony Poponi ** 12:55 Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, like I said, it's something I've just gravitated towards. And then I also think that there's, you know, one of the core parts of positive psychology is about, you know, this, this engaged life and that flow state that me Hi, chicks and Mihai talks about. And the way that he breaks it down that I think makes a lot of sense to me is, and we don't necessarily recognize this and see these patterns in ourselves without introspection. And what I mean by that is, he basically says, there's this flow channel, right, and you remain in this place of being super engaged, lose track of time, and you're doing something that's challenging, but it's at the right challenge level for you. So it's, it's the right mix of challenge and ability. And I think, you know, the first few times the, you know, I gave a presentation on on content matter, you know, like on neuro chemistry. Somebody said, Can you do a 20 minute talk? And I was like, whew, 20 minutes. That's a long time, you know, and now I'm like, give me two hours, give me a day, give me you know, give me two days, like, there's so much that we can be sharing and also doing together, right? It's communicating with versus just, you know, I'm not going to just do a two day retreat with someone and talk for eight hours a day for two days. It's more about creating that, that bidirectional dialogue around what they're wanting to achieve and how we can support   Michael Hingson ** 14:11 them. Absolutely. It has to be a dialogue. It has to be both ways, which is why I always say, I talk with an audience and not to it. A few years ago, the Iowa Police Chiefs Association asked me to come and speak. And I didn't pick up on this at first. They wanted me to do the keynote address. And it dawned on me over a few times in conversing with him that I was going to have three hours to do the keynote. Oh, wow. So it was a lot of fun. And we did have a lot of interaction back and forth too. So yeah, that's the way it really needs to be because I think that any audience doesn't want to be lectured to as such, but really, the the real, engaged audiences are the ones that are engaged and they're a part of the process.   Anthony Poponi ** 15:04 Yeah, it's and that's hard to achieve when you have a gigantic audience and a limited amount of time or even, like the way that I always kind of frame a keynote for me, the way I approach them, it's, it's a comedy show with content. And I think we're, I can do a really great job and serve people better, is a big give me time. While I'm also at that, in that conference, or in that space to say, I'm gonna, like, get you to think about a few things. And then, and we don't have time for you to have a little back and forth, or it might be time for q&a. But I want to have, give me two hours for a workshop after that, we're gonna run down, but just pick a vein, and we're gonna run down whatever vein they think is most valuable to their audience. And then people can select in to say, Oh, that was intriguing. I want to know more, and I want it to be a little more personal to my own challenges. So I'm gonna go go to that.   Michael Hingson ** 15:52 And I always feel that if I'm not learning at least as much as my audience, then I'm not doing my job well, because I love to go and spend some time before speaking. Because oftentimes, I'll find that there are things that I hear that I can integrate in, which makes it more meaningful. But I need to gain a lot out of being at any event. And gaining that I get comes from listening to what other people say or interacting with them. And I, when the opportunity arises, do love to have q&a?   Anthony Poponi ** 16:24 I mean, q&a is the hardest part. And it's also sometimes the best part, it gives you just an insight into what really resonated and jumped out to people. And then what they need more of.   Michael Hingson ** 16:33 Yeah, for me, it's always hard to get people started on asking questions. So they're, they're very uncomfortable. But once you open the dam, yeah. Then the questions come. And that's really cool. And again, that's a great way to to learn a lot more. Let's say you've been speaking professionally, since you said, what? 2014?   Anthony Poponi ** 16:56 Yeah, yeah, somewhere back in there. And they went from a side hustle to a full time gig and somewhere in that timeframe to well, around 2016, then it became more of a full time thing.   Michael Hingson ** 17:06 How was it like during the COVID?   Anthony Poponi ** 17:09 Oh, it was tough. Yeah. Yeah, you know, fortunately, a good part of my business has always had some consulting to it. And that still existed for workplaces. And, you know, people were transitioning to virtual and trying to keep their people engaged. So, you know, it was good. And I don't want to ever repeat the pandemic. But it helped me take stock of a lot of things, as I think it did with a lot of people. And it, you know, I did a lot of good things for my community as well, you know, I was doing free virtual talks all day long. I was writing, I have a history when, when I was working with nonprofits and fundraising. So I was writing grants for my local food pantry, we landed a couple of big grants that came through during that time. So, you know, I put stuff on pause a little bit, I did a lot of online training for myself, which was helpful, I produced my first workbook. So there was a lot of good things that came out of having that time and space. But, you know, I love the being in my office all day long. That's not the part I love. And part of that love is working with groups and working with people. So you know, getting back to that was important for me, for my own happiness for my own fulfillment.   Michael Hingson ** 18:17 You have talked a lot about people being not well engaged, we're not happy in the workplace and other things like that. So tell me a little bit more about that, if you would. Yeah, you're gonna start in any specific area? No, I'll leave that to you.   Anthony Poponi ** 18:38 Yeah, you know, certainly post pandemic, we're seeing a lot of, you know, everybody knows these terms of the great resignation, and quiet quitting, and all of those things. And you know, how much of that has been driven by kind of coming back to work after we kind of came out of crisis mode, and we were like, Hey, we're all rallying together, you know, we're gonna get through this together. And then people, you know, last boundaries between work life balance, hybrid became the way of doing things or working virtually. And those are, it's hard to create boundaries there, you know, and then layer on just different pieces of like, Okay, now what, like people had time to be introspective and time to get back to their lives. And so now creating those boundaries is, I think, really been helpful, helpful. But also people are like, Oh, this work that I was always doing is maybe not the work I shouldn't be doing. And so I think it's led to a lot of, you know, disengaged employees and, and that's a, it's a lose lose proposition, you know, like an employee that's not getting fulfillment out of their work is and because they're not leaning in, and they're not trying, you know, getting things done and being productive and all that that's a list for them. And it's obviously this for the workplace. So, you know, a big part of what I do when I'm working with groups is say, like, let's figure out who you are like who you are as an individual. Let's figure out what lights you up let's figure out what your skills and your gifts are. And then let's figure out like we you know, all the all the fun stuff, strengths, finders and leadership styles and all those things, and then let's figure out how to put those views as much as you can. Now Very few jobs are gonna let you do that all day all day long. But the more we can align those things between passions and values and gifts, you're gonna find more purpose in the work that you're doing. And that's great for the workplace. And you know, it takes time, it takes energy, it takes up investment, but it's worth it. And sometimes it means that that's the wrong job for you are like, as in a position, or it's the wrong workplace for you, if some of those things are often so I think so. So much of that is just exploration that you have to do.   Michael Hingson ** 20:30 Do you think that a lot of people are really unhappy at work?   Anthony Poponi ** 20:35 Uh, huh. You know, I don't know, the the data doesn't look good.   Michael Hingson ** 20:41 Why do you think that is? I've had that impression, too. But But why is that? And is it? Is it just in this country? Or is it all over?   Anthony Poponi ** 20:50 Um, I people are generally pretty, pretty low engagement levels. I don't know if that's actually a really good analogy, measurement tool for looking at what happiness looks like. I mean, I think work is supposed to be hard. And, you know, part of the, it has hard parts to it. And that's, that's because we're learning new things and trying things and we're engaging with groups, and there's going to be natural conflict in those things. Like it's, it's at all levels are everywhere, like, I'm part of a performing improv group here. And there's like, conflict within that. I'm like, we are volunteers. We're here to entertain people and have a good time, like, but why are we adding on this dramatic element? I guess, because, well, we're dramatic people are performing. But, you know, I just think it's human nature. And so you know, that's one layer is like, the social dynamic at work is really hard. And then all these other pieces, it's just like, Can I do things that I really find enjoyable? And I'm not saying that I have a completely dialed I mean, the, the best thing I've done in my work day today, is actually having this conversation with you. Because I like talking to people. I like conversing. I like sharing information. I like learning new things, versus sitting behind a computer and take a picture.   Michael Hingson ** 22:01 Yeah, me too. You know, my wife passed away in November of last year. So it's now been four months. And it'll be two weeks, on Sunday. But one of the things I've noticed, since she passed, and in even a little bit before she passed, although I really became aware of it later was doing these podcasts has just taken on a whole new meaning. It's been fun. And every time I get a chance to talk to somebody, it lightens the day, because they have new things to say that I haven't heard. And I get to interact with them. It's just a totally unique thing. So it's again, getting back to that whole interaction. Yeah.   Anthony Poponi ** 22:46 I'm sorry, for your loss, glass grease, grief is real. And people need to give themselves the the ability to honor that and be okay with that, you know, and I think the more we can share those things like vulnerability in life, and in the workplace is an incredibly valuable thing. And, you know, I think that's the other part of this too, is like we treat, we treat our lives as like compartmentalized, and they're not compartmentalized, it's all this, it's an amalgamation of all the things it is   Michael Hingson ** 23:12 it's everything. And like I like I tell people, I don't move on from Karen passing, I move forward, because moving on really implies that you're going to move on and forget. And that is absolutely the last thing that I want to do. Because it's all about the memories. It was 40 years minus 15 days of being married, so that the memories are great, I love them all, I cherish them. And at the same time that adds to enriching my life today. And I'm always happy about that.   Anthony Poponi ** 23:43 That's great. And I love the difference between moving on and moving forward. And I've had to embrace that with the loss of a friend to have just like, it doesn't, you don't want to move on, you know, like, this honors, all the richness that was there of all the great things that came from.   Michael Hingson ** 24:00 Yeah. And it's really important to to make that distinction. And she passed because as I tell people, the Spirit just oftentimes goes faster than the body she is in a wheelchair her whole life and her body just started not keeping up. There's there's no other real way to put it. I think that's basically what happened. There were a number of different factors into it, but it was just, it was her time. So I don't know where she is now or exactly what she's doing. But I hope I don't get in trouble.   Anthony Poponi ** 24:35 I don't know she might want you to get in trouble.   Michael Hingson ** 24:37 Well, I mean with her I don't want to get with her. I want her to approve. That's kind of important. Have you read 10% happier by Dan Harris? Yeah, I   Anthony Poponi ** 24:47 just read it this you're actually yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 24:49 I found that was an interesting book. And I think he had a lot of interesting things to say. And it's all about happiness. Go ahead.   Anthony Poponi ** 24:57 No, no. You Yeah, I was actually, I don't know that I have anything profound to say right off the bat there, I enjoyed the book. And I enjoyed the story. And I enjoyed it. As a non spiritual sort of person, like, I don't mean towards religion, I don't mean towards spirituality, it was really cool to see him find that I'm seeing a Venn diagram in my head of just like mindfulness and, and, and performance, you know, mindfulness and happiness. And so yeah, I thought it was an interesting, interesting book.   Michael Hingson ** 25:30 He did work hard to not try to get involved in a religious discussion. And it was about mindfulness. It was about sitting back and, and looking at yourself. And I'm a great fan of that. I think that people need to spend time every day looking at how the day went. And I've, I've learned, partly from a number of discussions on these podcasts. One of the things that I used to say was that after every speech I gave, I recorded them, I made audio copies, I would listen to them. And I said, I wanted to because I'm my own worst critic. And I realized that's horribly the wrong thing to say. And what I've learned is, I'm my own best teacher, which is a lot more positive. And what it really leads to is, when I look at it from what do I learn today, what did I learn from doing this? What do I need to learn to make it sound better? Or that didn't sound right? What's the real thing I need to do? So I love I'm my own best teacher, I think that's a much better approach to take. And we, we are way too negative anyway, so it's always good to be more positive.   Anthony Poponi ** 26:38 Yeah, I'm pretty hard on myself too. And those things that, you know, I think when you have an expectation of like, when you have the standard that you've set, and experience that you've done, where you've been, like, that's the best I've ever been on stage. And you can probably think about Windows, or I can think about a couple of instances over the last year or so. And, and then when you don't do that, well, you're still doing really well, like, unless you just completely bomb. And I have a hard time thinking that either of us do that, because we're not there. It's not like we're sticky. You know, like, we're not up there trying to deliver this thing. It's mine hasn't my presentations haven't melted, you know, it's organized, but it also has some organic newness to it. Sure, and I really love. But yeah, even you know, the, the, the be the, you know, what, we're not on our a game and we give the B version of it, we can be really, I can be really hard on myself, I should say. And, and that's still really good. You know, that room for improvement is is good. But it needs to be framed, I think in the way that you framed it.   Michael Hingson ** 27:41 The The other issue, though, is you can be hard on yourself. But again, that can be a positive thing or a negative thing. And for me, it's all about why wasn't it what I expected it to be. And that analysis is I think the most important thing for me, and I will continue to do that. And the time may come when I'll never feel that things really went poorly, which means I've been improving, or there will be a specific reason I can immediately point to it like, Oh, I just wasn't feeling well that day. But you're right, we will probably pretty much always be on and the key is that people won't notice it. And shouldn't because we're professional enough. But we're also skilled enough. One of the things that I remember I collect old radio shows as a hobby, and Abbott and Costello, the comedians in the 50s, and so on, I think it was Lou Costello. One Sunday, they were gonna going to do the show, his daughter drowned in their swimming pool that afternoon, but he still went on and did the show that night, and no one ever knew. Because he was able to transcend it. And, and as you said, there's got to be a time for grieving, which is extremely important. But when that was going on, he did what he needed to do, and he was skilled enough to be able to do it.   Anthony Poponi ** 29:09 Oh, it was probably a reasonable break from when the grief as well, you know, to just compartmentalize that for a moment and run away from it, you know, but, you know, to be able to move on and distract yourself with something else. Briefly. I'm   Anthony Poponi ** 29:22 not saying that that's a great strategy is used all the time. Right? There's times when you need to get out of your own head.   Michael Hingson ** 29:31 Yeah, you got to what are some techniques that people can use to make themselves or become happier in the workplace?   Anthony Poponi ** 29:40 Well, I think we, you know, I'll read their reiterate some of the other stuff. I mean, the, I think you got to figure yourself out, right? And B go back to that Peter Drucker comment about, like honoring that you need to figure yourself out and who you are now and who you're going to be and who you were there. You know, they're all different things. And then you can really shape things a lot better. That's a win win for everybody involved if you're, if you're aligning things better. And so, you know, do the strengths, finders work, do work on leadership, understand your character strengths, like, you know, do at this training, whatever the thing is that you need to do to kind of start off being able to put some language to the things that you're really great at, and then try to do those things as much as possible. I think that you'll find a lot more joy in the work, you'll have a lot more success in the things you do, you'll be happier doing it, it's just a great opportunity. And, you know, and then I think the other thing is that relationships are working really valuable. And relationships in general are really valuable. And so, you know, encourage people to really build strong relationships. And, and you should have that I mean, even the work that's come out by Shaun Baker, I don't know if you've ever heard of him The Happiness Advantage? Yeah, yeah, I encourage you to watch his TED Talk. It's a 17 minutes of just absolute brilliance. He's so funny. And he's so articulate, and he's got a great, he's a excellent researcher. But he talks about there being kind of basically like three components to what makes us successful work, one relationships, that we have social support, relationships, and they can be at work and they can be outside of work. But we need to have as we you know, we don't operate in a vacuum as humans, than introverts, extroverts, the different numbers of friends, that's fine. But it just makes sure that you have a social network that's strong, whatever that means for you. And then, you know, finding that alignment between things that you're really good at, and leaning in in ways that have a positive outcome, because of your way to engage with those things really well. And then also, optimism is really important. So having a belief that there's a better future out there that you're that you're actively going to be the one to help create. And I think those all kind of weave together really well.   Michael Hingson ** 31:49 And I think having a good relationship with ourselves is extremely important. We, we need to like ourselves, and we need to learn to like ourselves, which is why I like best teacher, as opposed to worst critic anyway, but we need to do that. But again, I think the other the other technique, I would add, which is what we talked about a while ago, which is you really want to look at the end of each day about how things went. And even the good things, what what might I do better? Or have I really done it as well as I could? And it's okay to say yes to that, by the way, I think. But at the same time, if there are things that that didn't go well, so what's the deal here? And what did we do to address it, and we can do that. But if we don't take the time to think about those things we're never going to learn.   Anthony Poponi ** 32:37 I mean, 100%, I would say that you need to be looking at your life at scale. And I share this with groups a lot about you know, every year on my birthday, I carve out some time, and I kind of do a urine review. And I use the tools that I use in my audiences, I use them with myself, I kind of look at the different domains of my life, and what's going well, and what what can I be doing better? What would I like to shift? What are the easy things to shift? What are the harder things that will take more time to shift? What are the things that aren't going to change? You know, there's some of those out there as well. And, and really paying attention to those things. And of course, doing it once a year is a nice thing for like, Alright, here's my baseline from last year. And now where where am I gonna year because some things will take time. But the opportunity, you don't want to wait all year. Think about making those chips.   Michael Hingson ** 33:25 No, it's always about setting goals. It's always about looking at what you want to do. But then every day, exploring it and re examining it gives you the opportunity to say how do I move forward with that? Or what do I need to redefine, but so many people say I don't have the time to do that you always have time to do that, if you choose to   Anthony Poponi ** 33:48 even better make the time to do it. You know, I mean, it's like one of those things where it's like, I don't like the word should. Yeah, but it's this is such an important show, you know, like, it's an important thing that I think, you know that we can get stuck in this kind of like default life of how things are going. And if we don't examine the things that we really love that we want more of, and then the things that aren't working and how to subtract those from our lives as much as possible. It's a missed opportunity. And it's that whole metaphor of like, having, you know, a jar, and then you if the rocks are the big things, that you put those in the jar first. But if you wait and keep filling the jar with all the little stuff, the sand and the pebbles and all those things, you won't have any room for the rocks, that thing important things in your life, right? That's finding ways to prioritize those is important. Can you do that every single day and make sure that you aren't just focused on your rocks every single night? Probably not, you know, and that's okay. But you know, if you lose sight of those sort of things, then you can be like, Well, I don't have time to do the things that are really important. Well, then it's on you to change it. You're the only person that could do that.   Michael Hingson ** 34:51 Yeah, what's really important then you're missing the point.   Anthony Poponi ** 34:55 Now we're let it go. I mean, quit being so like, Oh, I just wish I could be alive. Well, you can wish you could or you can actively happen, right? And, and there's, there's benefit, I think, in taking that approach of saying, I thought I really wanted this thing and I'm not making time for it. And instead of wanting and wishing and being angry that I don't have it, I'm gonna let it go is no longer possible for my life? And I'm gonna move on. But there's a relief in that.   Michael Hingson ** 35:22 Yeah, I'm a Yoda fan Do or do not? There is no try. I've ever since I saw the movie the first time, I've always loved that line. And it's true. Because you either do it or you don't. If you talk about trying, you're introducing doubt. And, and it's okay. If you do, and it doesn't succeed, then you go back, and you look at that, but the doubts the issue?   Anthony Poponi ** 35:51 Yeah, I like that. You Yeah. And even if you try and fail, at least you don't have to think about regret. You know, right. Unless, unless you gave up on trying iterating and saying, Oh, it didn't work because of this. I'll try this, you know?   Michael Hingson ** 36:07 Yeah. That's and fail. Again, it's a learning experience, as opposed to being a negative well, by just screwed up, you know, what do you learn?   Anthony Poponi ** 36:16 Oh, there's plenty of times I just screw up? Well,   Michael Hingson ** 36:21 well, you know, in your case, when you talk with yourself every year on your birthday, which one gets the better presents? is That's the real question.   Anthony Poponi ** 36:31 Pretty good care of myself on my birthday?   Michael Hingson ** 36:35 How much of our happiness is really under our control? Yeah, to cover it. But I'm curious to see what you'd say to that? Well, I think   Anthony Poponi ** 36:45 we kind of, you know, we're dancing around it. And I think the thing that is valuable for people to hear is that a lot of it, you know, and the name of my business is called focus on the 40. And the reason that it's called that is because about 40% of our happiness is within our control through intentional action. And so back to your Yoda of is no try, there's only do How does He say   Michael Hingson ** 37:06 there is no doer? Do not there is no try, right? There   Anthony Poponi ** 37:09 you go. And so taking action and, and you've heard me use this term today, during our our time together, I'm just I think of happiness as a verb, it's the act of crafting of happiness, like you should be. Well, I guess that doesn't mean, in that phrase, it probably isn't a verb, but I'm not the syntax person. But you know, we have to make those intentional choices about what we're going to be doing to shape our lives. And you know, the other 50% of our happiness is genetic, we kind of come up with a set point that's inherited from our parents. And then there's 10%, that's really controlled by life circumstance, we put an inordinate amount of focus on that 10%. If our circumstances will change, we will be happier. And the science shows that we just it doesn't affect our happiness that much.   Michael Hingson ** 37:52 When September 11 happened, I remember afterward, reacting more and more strongly when people said we got to get back to a normal. And I, I subconsciously and then eventually really was able to articulate No, we're not going to get back to normal, because normal will never be the same again. Yeah, this is the normal, the new normal, and the new normal is ongoing change, actually even more than we had before. But the reality also is we do always try to control so many things over which we don't have any control. And we should worry about the things that we can control. And the rest. If you worry about them, it's just going to drive you crazy.   Anthony Poponi ** 38:35 Absolutely. I mean, those concentric rings of circle of influence, you know, we have so little control and some of these outlying things. And if we put our attention on those, it's yeah, it's just going to dry, it's gonna drive us crazy. It's gonna make us unhappy. And it's, it's not changing anything other than how we are perceiving and how we're reacting to it.   Michael Hingson ** 38:55 Why are we so negative about changing chaos, especially when people say all the time changes all around us? We're always on we're always going to be changing. And then when something affects us, we hate to change.   Anthony Poponi ** 39:11 Yeah, I mean, you know, Cass, I think that our brains don't like uncertainty, you know, our brains like a defined target, and then define a problem. And then we put our supercomputer brains towards that towards solving that. If, if the target is always moving, that's chaos, right? It's targets all over the place. And that was What's so hard about the pandemic, and even all that. The impacts from that, just like the marketplace is changing, and supply chain is changing. And now we have stuff going on in Ukraine and things with China. And all these changes are going to keep coming. And you know, when they're definable, it's easier for our brains to compute the answer and the solution for those. When they're constantly changing. It's hard because our brains are like, Well, I was working on this problem and it looked like this and now it doesn't look like that at all. So it just creates it's hard for us and And it's the it's the same thing within, like even a workplace or just in anything that you're doing is that, you know, we build up expertise in things. And we build that up through cataloging experiences and learning new things. And then, you know, trying and solving, trying and failing sometimes before we solve. And so it feels good for us to do things. And it feels hard for us to be confronted with something that we don't know that we can solve. And if you can flip the switch in your mind and say, This is a new challenge, and it's causing me stress, and the term has actually challenged stress. Like, you know, when I get through this, I'm gonna be better for it, you know, and it's what I would call strategic discomfort, you know, like, there's value in this discomfort, because when you solve this thing, you're going to move forward. And, and that's a great thing to do for yourself to continue to challenge yourself. And, you know, doing it the right increment level, makes it easier to tolerate that change in those challenges.   Michael Hingson ** 40:51 If you're able to step back and recognize what you just said, and recognize that the stress is there, that's the important part, rather than just letting it overwhelm you go, Oh, this is a challenge. Okay. I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this, or I'm going to do this, I'm going to have to figure it out. It may take a while. But it is something that I can deal with in one way or another because human beings are great. And then work toward that. Rather than letting it stress you that's the big issue.   Anthony Poponi ** 41:22 Yeah. And I think you did a good job there of saying, Oh, I feel what do I feel? Oh, I feel stressed. Why do I feel stressed? Like, what can you unpack that? You know? And like? And that's where I think like this literacy around our feelings and literacy around what what challenges look like in literacy around? Why it feels good to achieve things. Like, if you can start, like understanding those pieces and breaking it apart, then you can be like, Why do I feel like this right now? Because I'm not being challenged? You know, there's another side to that.   Michael Hingson ** 41:48 Good point, too.   Anthony Poponi ** 41:49 I'm bored, you know? Yeah, that's good.   Michael Hingson ** 41:53 One of the things that I talk a lot about to a number of audiences is trust and teamwork. And I talk about that, because having used guide dogs now since 1964. Oh, well, long time. What I've, what I've learned over the years, is that wild dogs do love unconditionally. And I absolutely firmly believe that's true, unless they're just so abused, somewhere on the line that they're stilted, but they love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. Trust is still something that has to be earned. But the difference between dogs and humans is that dogs are more open to trust than humans are. And I always, when I have that discussion with people, I hear lots of stories about how well we can trust this person or, or you know, but other people have agendas, and how do we know what their agendas are? Yeah, trust is extremely important in the workplace. How do we deal with that? And how do we get people to be more open to the concept of trust?   Anthony Poponi ** 42:58 Yeah, it's it. It's a double edged sword, right? Yeah, so this statistic that just pops out to me that I think it's, it's dated, mounted as an 18. Or so I think it was from Gallup, they did a survey and about 58% of the people said, they trusted a complete stranger, or than they trusted their supervisor. So think about that, you know, a complete stranger, and we're not, you know, we're wired to give people some degree of trust, and then maybe he wants to earn the rest of it. And, and I say, Trust is a double edged sword. Because by not trusting other people, you're kind of keeping your armor up, and you're protecting yourself. And by letting it down, I think it's incredible. Like, there's magic behind being able to trust all the people around you, and what you can achieve with those people, doing anything, playing team sports, or working in a community, being on a board of directors, when everybody can just be very candid, and very transparent about what's going on what they're thinking, what they're afraid of what they're worried about. What they're excited about, you know, and sometimes even being excited about something is a vulnerability. And so yeah, I think it's, it's, you know, trust is incrementally earned, is broken in a heartbeat. And if you break it, you gotta fix it. You know, that's the big part of it.   Michael Hingson ** 44:13 And that's the real key, it's, again, we you may not trust your supervisor, but are you open and willing to be open to gaining their trust, and they earning your trust? And of course, that is, the whole point is that you said it's incrementally earned, and it can be broken in a heartbeat. And that's a very important part of the process. But we've got to start by being open to it. And all too often, I think we just send out messages that we're not open, we're going to keep the armor up, and that doesn't help.   Anthony Poponi ** 44:49 No, I don't think it helps anybody. It's, you know? Yeah, it's so complicated. And, you know, micro, it's like, I use the metaphor of like, you You can't microwave to a trust, you know. And it's a slow cooker process. And it takes attention. And it takes time. And I think it's actually one of the things that it's impacted really heavily by this high degree of mobility we have in the workplace right now, even high degree of mobility and community, you know, used to be that we were born and raised somewhere, and you stayed there, and you live there, and you inherited your parents business, and you know, you stayed the whole time and want to community. And through that, you know, you're cataloging all these behaviors of all these people and building trust and building relationships that, you know, could be transcendent, you know, of politics and belief systems have all that stuff. Because you get to know the people. And you get to know the person behind whatever labels get put on. And it's an I think, the same thing in the workplace. You know, if you're only in a position for two years, you know, you're, you're kind of there and you're looking to be upwardly mobile, you're doing whatever you're doing. But there's, that relationship takes a long time to build. And it could just be getting to the point where you're like, we've been through a lot together, and now I trust you. And by the way, I'm moving on.   Michael Hingson ** 46:04 But that's better than not trusting at all. Oh, sure. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I can understand that. But, you know, we've got such a world today, you mentioned a lot of things before, like China and Ukraine and everything else. And all the things that are going on in this country, the people who we have mostly been raised to think that we can trust are demonstrating all too often that we can't, and shouldn't just because of the way they behave, and that doesn't help our psyche and ability to learn to be open to trust either.   Anthony Poponi ** 46:41 Yeah, it's the corruption and all those sorts of things. And even I asked him, if I can pull the statistic out of my brain, I probably can't, but just, you know, the overall decline of trust and belief in government and even business is, you know, it's went down, I think, four percentage points in the last two years or something like that, you know, whatever the numbers are, it's not going in a better direction.   Michael Hingson ** 47:04 No, it certainly isn't. Yeah. Well, when did you start your company focus on the 40?   Anthony Poponi ** 47:10 Oh, background? 2016? I think,   Michael Hingson ** 47:14 and I assume it's focused on the 40. Because you're talking about the 40% of happiness?   Anthony Poponi ** 47:19 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, from stage, it's a different, you know, and talk about workplace, you know, that the hard parts of workplace happiness from a stage and then when I'm working with groups, it gets, like, into the nitty gritty of really examining. So it's, it's workplace happiness, but it's, it's very tactical, when when delivered with group. Do you do workshops and stuff with groups? Are you mostly just from stage? Mostly from   Michael Hingson ** 47:44 stage? I've done some mostly with groups, I do more on accessibility consultant. consultancy than, than anything else, but mostly from the stage. Cool. Keeps me keeps me going. Well, yeah, I'm glad you enjoy. So for you in terms of what you're doing through the company, and so on, how do you go about assessing what is occurring in a workplace? And how do we work to bring out the most productive cultures and the most productive people in them?   Anthony Poponi ** 48:17 Yeah, I mean, that's always a tricky one, you know, getting people to be candid with you about what's going on? Well, you know, usually you're talking about somebody that's a leader within an organization, or at some leadership level, and, you know, I mean, that's one of the big parts of trust, like it, can leaders hear from their people about what's going on? Well, they will hear that a lot. But sometimes it's skewed towards that versus being like, Hey, these are other things that are happening in the workplace that are not good. And if that trickles up, I guess towards leadership that can make decisions around that great. And they can accept that and can bring that in and say, Hey, this is you know, we have a problem, or I'm fixing it, it's okay. You know, it's the nature of, of a dynamic, the dynamic nature of LV culture, which is living, breathing changes all the time. I was just gonna say, I have assessment tools, you know, and I use those. And then I think there's a lot of interviewing, and just people want to, when I'm given the time to do that, and being like, you know, what the ideal relationship for me is, like, let's do some assessments, let's figure out where you are. Let's set a base baseline, let's try to parse out what some of the things are we can do to open the door on that conversation about what's going on in this workplace. And then as I build trust within the group, and as I build trust between them and me, then we can start to be more candid and more candidate and more candidate.   Michael Hingson ** 49:32 Do you think more leaders don't tend to get a lot of that useful information? Because whether it's intentional or not, they're sort of sending a message or the way they behave that they're really not interested in getting it. They don't want to get psychological or or whatever.   Anthony Poponi ** 49:50 I mean, it's a qualified yes. And the reason I qualified is I don't know how to put a number on much of that, you know, I've seen statistics out there on it before about What it looks like about how many leaders are really hearing the truth from their people something around 60%? You know, that sort of transparency? It just really, I don't know, I don't know about you. But like when I am working with CEOs, and I'm seeing CEOs, and there's some that immediately I'm like, that's the guy. That's the guy that should be leading this organization. Yeah. Because it's not about him. It's about what he can bring out in this people. You know, and certainly, there's somebody at the top there. But you know, being infallible and invulnerable and omnipotent, I think you're just like, failed definitions for what leadership should look like?   Michael Hingson ** 50:39 Well, the other thing is, you said roughly 60% of leaders hear the truth from their their people. So there's hearing the truth, and then there's hearing the truth. And that's the course the real issue. Yeah. Because if people since they're not being heard, then that doesn't help the situation. I think that happens all too often. I think we've all seen that one way or another.   Anthony Poponi ** 51:02 Yeah. And I mean, there's leadership at all levels to you know, that. If nothing else, you can lead yourself. And that's about making choices and decisions and even what you're talking about. But being introspective. Yeah, saying, you know, what's great about today, what was that great about today? Like that? That's something in itself of being like, you know, what did I do well as, as an employee, as an area as a community members of parent or as a spouse, or whatever it would be. That level of introspection is valuable. And, you know, the problem is, you know, if you have leadership that, that I'm going to put a period on that, because I'm kind of tangent and making a tangent here. But there, if you have this like insular group of people that are like, That can't hear these outside influences in these outside concerns, and they don't great channels of communication around that, you can perceive that things are going great. But that may not really be the what's true. And that's not just the CEO when I when I was like departments and teams, and you know, whatever those clusterings aren't workplace,   Michael Hingson ** 52:02 well, it's everyone because somebody may be telling you the truth as an employee, and you're not hearing it. And so it, it is something that has to occur at all levels. And it might very well be that the leader is trying to tell you something that should be told to you and you're not listening, or you're not hearing it then so that happens. For sure. What's the difference? Or what's the relationship between happiness and success?   Anthony Poponi  52:25 Yeah, I mean, we talked about it a little bit more. Yeah, a lot of us put this kind of this causality or this? Yeah, I'll just say causality between happiness and success. As you know, I'll be happy when I'm successful.   Michael Hingson ** 52:38 Whatever that means. Yeah. And   Anthony Poponi ** 52:40 you better be able to define success really well. And then so that, you know, when you've achieved that, or when you're nearing it, or when you're, you know, at least you're aiming in the right direction. And then, yeah, so I'll be happy when I'm successful. The causality is backwards. And you know, the work of Shaun Baker and others have basically said, it's, I'll be successful when I'm happy. Yeah. And I don't mean happy, like running around the office doing cartwheels. I mean, like, aligned and engaged in all the things that we talked about before, like using your gifts and your strengths and having a, you know, an active using those actively in the workplace. And those can be way more predictive than just your skill set that one. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 53:21 And that makes perfect sense. Yeah,   Anthony Poponi ** 53:23 I'm glad it does. I mean, you know, you can't Don't don't wait on creating love in your life. Don't wait on creating happiness in your life. You know, those two things are like they should not be delayed waiting until some right time. Is that right? Time will never come through it now. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 53:40 You got to start. And that you do have control over?   Anthony Poponi ** 53:44 Yeah, absolutely. That's that 40%?   Michael Hingson ** 53:47 Well, how a few people want to reach out to you and talk with you and learn more about you and so on. Since we've been doing this for a while. How do people do that?   53:56 Well, I'm a raging narcissist. So my website is my email, or my My name is, so it's Anthonypoponi.com. And if you don't know how to spell, it's just like Tony Poponi But Anthony Poponi. So P O P O N I, or you can go to focus on the 40 focus on the four zero and.com. And that'll get you there as well. And I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook and not on Tik Tok. Probably still have a MySpace account, but I don't use it very much.   Michael Hingson ** 54:21 You don't hear much about MySpace anymore. Do you?   Anthony Poponi ** 54:23 Know it's apparently used a lot though, for by musicians. And I didn't know that. That's kind of the place where theysurprised me too.   Michael Hingson ** 54:31 Yeah, as far as Tiktok. We'll see where that goes. Yeah, never know. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for being with us. This has absolutely been fun. And maybe we can do it some more in the future. But this has been great. And I will definitely thank you for being here. And I want to thank you for listening out there. Reach out to Anthony. He's got a lot of ideas and I think a lot of ways that can help and we all need to become happier and we need to work at that that is as much an important part of life as anything else. So I hope you will do I'd love to hear what you think about this podcast as well as unstoppable mindset in general. So feel free to email me, Michaelhi at accessiBe A C C E S S

by Charles Lear, author of “The Flying Saucer Investigators.”Gordon Cooper, youngest of the original Mercury astronauts, often spoke publicly about his UFO sightings and beliefs. He appeared in documentaries such as James Fox's 2003 film Out of the Blue, and famously wrote a letter dated November 9, 1978, to Ambassador of Grenada to the United States George Ashley Griffith calling for the scientific collection and analysis of data taken from UFO encounters in order to “determine how best to interface with these visitors in a friendly fashion.” In Out of the Blue, he is heard telling a story about a flying saucer with three retractable legs that was filmed landing in 1957 at Edwards Air Force Base. He didn't claim to have witnessed the landing himself, but did say he saw the footage. There was an incident involving the filming of a UFO at Edwards that year, and there is a Project Blue Book file on the case. James McDonald found the witnesses and interviewed them in the late 1960's and wrote a report. Cooper's name is not mentioned by McDonald and the incident as described by McDonald and in the Blue Book file didn't involve a landing. Brad Sparks and Jan Aldrich, both heavily involved in UFO research for many years, had an email exchange discussing this, and a record of it can be found at nicap.org.Read more →

Author, retired Air Force Colonel, former flight test engineer, and Executive Director of the Air Force Test Center, Edwards Air Force Base, California, Eileen Bjorkman, talks about her new book, FLY GIRLS REVOLT: THE STORY OF THE WOMEN WHO KICKED OPEN THE DOOR TO FLY IN COMBAT, available May 23rd, 2023. Eileen weaves her own experience as an Air Force flight test engineer in this history that, uniquely among books that follow the history of women in military aviation, bridges the gap between the WASP and the first active duty female aviators in the 1970s with the stories of the women who served in other roles in between. She also includes a detailed account of the Women Military Aviators' (WMA) spectacular show of solidarity at a DACOWITZ hearing on changes in the Air Force's flight training policy that threatened to further restrict women's ability to progress professionally in the ranks. This book brings us new and complementary information on this incredibly important transition for women in military aviation, and features several outstanding and notable pioneers, not the least of whom is currently the Air Force Chief of Safety, Maj. General Jeannie Leavitt. Thanks so much for listening! Stay up to date on book releases, author events, and Aviatrix Book Club discussion dates with the Literary Aviatrix Newsletter. Visit the Aviatrix Book Review website to find over 600 books featuring women in aviation in all genres for all ages. Become a Literary Aviatrix Patron and help amplify the voices of women in aviation. Follow me on social media, join the book club, and find all of the things on the Literary Aviatrix linkt.ree. Blue skies, happy reading, and happy listening!-Liz Booker

Today's Story: A New Milestone for Electric Flight

This edition features stories on an F-22 test aircraft crash outside Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., that occurred on March 25th, transformations taking place that affect the security alliance between U.S. Forces Japan and the Japanese Self-Defense Forces, Airmen first responders at Hulburt Field working with their local civilian counterparts during a recent mass casualty exercise, the Armed Forces Electronic & Communication Association (AFCEA) bringing some of the open markets most high-tech, state-of-the-art technologies for Airmen at Ramstein Air Base to experience, crash site recovery that helps recover and identify U.S. Airmen lost during World War II. Hosted by Tech Sgt. Chris Decker.

This edition features stories on the permanent location of the newly formed Global Strike Command, the Air Force's continued and diversified use of the F-16 Fighter jet, a website that is assisting Airmen with their finances by offering multiple on-line banking services, constant improvements on Unmanned Aerial Systems taking place at Edwards Air Force Base, the importance of a blood drive recently held at Yokota Air Base, Japan, and an Air Force officer survey that could lead to revisions of the Air Force officer qualifying test. Hosted by Tech Sgt. Lee Hoover.

This edition features a story on withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, exercise Northern Edge, EMEDS medics in Iraq, graduation day for students whose parents are deployed and preserving the desert tortoise at Edwards Air Force Base. Hosted by Tech. Sgt. Lee Hoover.

Guest: Col. Eileen M. Collins USAF (Retired)Retired NASA astronaut and United States Air Force (USAF) colonel. A former flight instructor and test pilot, Collins was the first woman to pilot the Space Shuttle and the first to command a Space Shuttle mission.On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/eileen-collins-8a582351/Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli_____________________________This Episode's SponsorsBlackCloak

The Science Center has proudly displayed Space Shuttle Endeavour to our guests for the past ten years. Seeing the shuttle is amazing, but…Do you ever wonder what it felt like to fly Endeavour?We talked to Chris Ferguson (@Astro_Ferg), a former Navy pilot and NASA astronaut who flew on three space shuttle missions, including one as commander of Endeavour in 2008. He shares a vivid play-by-play of what he saw out the window while landing at Edwards Air Force Base in southern California. By the way, my favorite part of his story is how the shuttle's double sonic boom was heard across LA County, surprising some sleepy residents on an early Sunday morning!It's always a treat to talk to astronauts, especially one who's flown on Endeavour. So, join us as we hear from one of the most experienced and accomplished space shuttle commanders, Chris Ferguson.Have a question you've been wondering about? Send an email or voice recording to everwonder@californiasciencecenter.org to tell us what you'd like to hear in future episodes.Follow us on Twitter (@casciencecenter), Instagram (@californiasciencecenter), and Facebook (@californiasciencecenter).Support the show

Guest: Col. Eileen M. Collins USAF (Retired)Retired NASA astronaut and United States Air Force (USAF) colonel. A former flight instructor and test pilot, Collins was the first woman to pilot the Space Shuttle and the first to command a Space Shuttle mission.On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/eileen-collins-8a582351/Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society PodcastOn ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli_____________________________This Episode's SponsorsBugcrowd

Donations are always open!!https://app.redcircle.com/shows/63e27b72-d402-4c1c-afa6-902f0e45279a/sponsorOn this episode we talk with retired Brigadier General John "Dragon" Teichert. He had an awesome 28 year Air Force career where he flew the F-15E and went to Test Pilot School (TPS). Dragon flew the F-22 and F-15E as a test pilot. He was the Base Commander of Edwards Air Force Base and Andrews Air Force Base. He has amazing insight and he is just a great American.We had a lot of fun talking about his time as a test pilot, his experiences as a leader, and his global perspective on current events.Dragon is now retired and but continues to share his knowledge through Capital Leadership:https://capitalleadership.org/Connect with Dragon on LinkedIn here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnteichert/Donations are always welcome so please go to our website or use the link below. Also email us at Info@kodiakshack.com with any feedback or ideas for content.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/kodiak-shack-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Scott Dworkin is an aerial photographer, contractor, and photojournalist based outside Los Angeles, California. He has had a lifelong passion for aviation and photography, and after honing his skills as a photographer for many years, he decided to combine the two interests professionally in 2010. Since 2010, Scott's work has been published in numerous international aviation magazines and websites. As a photographer and writer, he has flown with and covered every branch of the US Armed Forces, as well as worked with many Department of Defense contractors, civilian aviation outfits, and law enforcement aviation units. Scott embedded with the US Air Force 452nd Airlift Wing from March Air Reserve Base in California, traveling with them to Afghanistan to cover their aeromedical evacuation missions. He also traveled around the United States extensively, documenting various other military and civilian units in action. Scott is one of only a handful of civilians in the world who is privileged to fly as an aerial photographer in high-performance military aircraft. Scott's freelance work led to him being hired by the 412th Test Wing, Air Force Flight Test Center at Edwards Air Force Base, California, as a full-time flight test photographer. While there, he provided aerial multimedia, both air-to-air and air-to-ground coverage, including still photography, high-definition videography, high-speed video, and postproduction. Scott routinely flew in various air force aircraft to document ordnance and weapons testing, drop tests, aircraft flight performances, and other operational missions. He delivered the final products to the Air Force Flight Test Center, the Department of Defense, and various other customers. While at Edwards, Scott was trained in accordance with Air Force Instruction flight aircrew rules and regulations and was qualified as aircrew in numerous aircraft. He attended the USAF Physiology Training Program at Beale Air Force Base in California. In addition, he was granted the designation of US Navy Project Specialist, and with that carried Navy Aviation Physiology Training and Aviation Water Survival Training Program qualifications. Scott was recruited by and worked as a contracted flight test photographer/videographer for the Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division, Naval Test Wing Pacific at Point Mugu and China Lake in California and other locations. The creation of Mach 91 Aerial Photography and this book are the culmination of Scott's dream and passion to deliver the finest quality, dramatic aerial photography possible, to bring the aircraft to life in its natural environment, and tell the story of the men and women who serve. He is the author of Becoming The Rhino. Scott Dworkin is an aerial photographer, contractor, and photojournalist based outside Los Angeles, California. He has had a lifelong passion for aviation and photography, and after honing his skills as a photographer for many years, he decided to combine the two interests professionally in 2010. Since 2010, Scott's work has been published in numerous international aviation magazines and websites. As a photographer and writer, he has flown with and covered every branch of the US Armed Forces, as well as worked with many Department of Defense contractors, civilian aviation outfits, and law enforcement aviation units. Scott embedded with the US Air Force 452nd Airlift Wing from March Air Reserve Base in California, traveling with them to Afghanistan to cover their aeromedical evacuation missions. He also traveled around the United States extensively, documenting various other military and civilian units in action. Scott is one of only a handful of civilians in the world who is privileged to fly as an aerial photographer in high-performance military aircraft. Scott's freelance work led to him being hired by the 412th Test Wing, Air Force Flight Test Center at Edwards Air Force Base, California, as a full-time flight test photographer. While there, he provided aerial multimedia, both air-to-air and air-to-ground coverage, including still photography, high-definition videography, high-speed video, and postproduction. Scott routinely flew in various air force aircraft to document ordnance and weapons testing, drop tests, aircraft flight performances, and other operational missions. He delivered the final products to the Air Force Flight Test Center, the Department of Defense, and various other customers. While at Edwards, Scott was trained in accordance with Air Force Instruction flight aircrew rules and regulations and was qualified as aircrew in numerous aircraft. He attended the USAF Physiology Training Program at Beale Air Force Base in California. In addition, he was granted the designation of US Navy Project Specialist, and with that carried Navy Aviation Physiology Training and Aviation Water Survival Training Program qualifications. Scott was recruited by and worked as a contracted flight test photographer/videographer for the Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division, Naval Test Wing Pacific at Point Mugu and China Lake in California and other locations. The creation of Mach 91 Aerial Photography and this book are the culmination of Scott's dream and passion to deliver the finest quality, dramatic aerial photography possible, to bring the aircraft to life in its natural environment, and tell the story of the men and women who serve. Scott is the author of Becoming The Rhino. Scott's website is https://www.mach91aerialphotography.com/ Scott Dworkin is an aerial photographer, contractor, and photojournalist based outside Los Angeles, California. He has had a lifelong passion for aviation and photography, and after honing his skills as a photographer for many years, he decided to combine the two interests professionally in 2010. Since 2010, Scott's work has been published in numerous international aviation magazines and websites. As a photographer and writer, he has flown with and covered every branch of the US Armed Forces, as well as worked with many Department of Defense contractors, civilian aviation outfits, and law enforcement aviation units. Scott embedded with the US Air Force 452nd Airlift Wing from March Air Reserve Base in California, traveling with them to Afghanistan to cover their aeromedical evacuation missions. He also traveled around the United States extensively, documenting various other military and civilian units in action. Scott is one of only a handful of civilians in the world who is privileged to fly as an aerial photographer in high-performance military aircraft. Scott's freelance work led to him being hired by the 412th Test Wing, Air Force Flight Test Center at Edwards Air Force Base, California, as a full-time flight test photographer. While there, he provided aerial multimedia, both air-to-air and air-to-ground coverage, including still photography, high-definition videography, high-speed video, and postproduction. Scott routinely flew in various air force aircraft to document ordnance and weapons testing, drop tests, aircraft flight performances, and other operational missions. He delivered the final products to the Air Force Flight Test Center, the Department of Defense, and various other customers. While at Edwards, Scott was trained in accordance with Air Force Instruction flight aircrew rules and regulations and was qualified as aircrew in numerous aircraft. He attended the USAF Physiology Training Program at Beale Air Force Base in California. In addition, he was granted the designation of US Navy Project Specialist, and with that carried Navy Aviation Physiology Training and Aviation Water Survival Training Program qualifications. Scott was recruited by and worked as a contracted flight test photographer/videographer for the Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division, Naval Test Wing Pacific at Point Mugu and China Lake in California and other locations. The creation of Mach 91 Aerial Photography and this book are the culmination of Scott's dream and passion to deliver the finest quality, dramatic aerial photography possible, to bring the aircraft to life in its natural environment, and tell the story of the men and women who serve.

Guest: Eileen M. Collins, Colonel, USAF, Ret.On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/eileen-collins-8a582351/On Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/ECollinsSpace/Website | http://marklarson.com/eileencollins/one.html______________________Host: Charlie Camarda Ph.DOn ITSPmagazine  

Skynet. Cyborgs... When you think of advanced technology in military applications, odds are Hollywood has you convinced it is to our species' peril. Never mind entertainment, what is artificial intelligence, really, and how might it be adapted in military aviation?On this episode, U.S. Air Force Colonel Randel Gordon, Vice Commander of the 412th Test Wing at Edwards Air Force Base, California joins guest cohost Ken Katz to describe how AI is shaping the way the military trains, fights, works logistics and repairs, and a host of other activities where big data can bring about efficiencies and improved capabilities.During the listener question portion we learn the distinction between the Navy Fighter Weapons School (aka TOPGUN) and other Navy and Marine Corps adversary squadrons. Check out Ken's book, The Supersonic BONE: A Development and Operational History of the B-1 Bomber. Bumper music by Jaime Lopez / announcements by Clint Bell. Opening audio clip from Terminator 2: Judgement Day directed by James Cameron (1991, Paramount).Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-fighter-pilot-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

My special guest is Raymond Szymanski to discuss his knowledge of alien visitation to military installations including the Wright-Patterson where he worked for many years. Get his book 50 Shades of Greys on Amazon.     -- Wright-Patterson Air Force Base Insider Investigation Reveals Exciting New Evidence and Theories -- Nick Pope, UK Ministry of Defense UFO Project, 1991 – 1994, Author of Encounter in Rendlesham Forest, excitedly states: “Fifty Shades of Greys is a fun and informative book that is part UFO exposé and part travel guide. Written in a gonzo style, Raymond Szymanski tours the world, researching iconic UFO sightings and meeting a colorful cast of witnesses, experts and enthusiasts along the way. The author's four-decade career as an Engineer at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (where many believe crashed alien spaceships are stored), and his exciting new evidence will doubtless start a few conspiracy theories.” For the very first time, an executive-level Wright-Patterson Air Force Base scientist takes you on a dangerous personal search for evidence of alien visitation inside the legendary, super-secret Department of Defense installation and beyond. Unconvinced by third-person stories rewarmed in “shadow-government-conspiracy UFO books”, Raymond Szymanski presents compelling, first-person UFO research adventures and discoveries - balanced between the very serious and sometimes not-so-serious misadventures. Raymond researched many Department of Defense scientific mysteries in his distinguished career. Now armed with insider information, he's researching the most polarizing scientific mystery-of-the-century: “Do we have Aliens?” During this life-changing journey he discovers and examines evidence of alien visitation and strong hints that, contrary to widely published reports, Air Force senior scientists may not be unanimously laughing off UFOs after all. Join Raymond's exciting, thought provoking adventures: - In the United Kingdom's UFO-infested Rendlesham Forest; - With Travis Walton at the secretive Walton abduction site in the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest; - And inside the Holy Grail itself, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. An alien visitation investigation, cloaked in mystery, wrapped in an adventure story, illustrated by more than one hundred never-before-published photographs, will be enjoyed by adventurists, enthusiasts, researchers, and conspiracy theorists alike.   Wanna get creeped out? Follow our new podcast 'Paranormal Fears' on any podcast app or Apple Podcasts.   Visit our home on the web: https://www.mysteriousradio.com Follow us on Instagram @mysteriousradio Like us on Facebook Facebook.com/mysteriousradio Check Out Mysterious Radio! (copy the link to share with your friends and family via text   Area 51military installation, Nevada, United StatesPrint Cite Share Feedback Written and fact-checked by The Editors of Encyclopaedia BritannicaLast Updated: Article HistoryU-2 Area 51, secret U.S. Air Force military installation located at Groom Lake in southern Nevada. It is administered by Edwards Air Force Base in southern California. The installation has been the focus of numerous conspiracies involving extraterrestrial life, though its only confirmed use is as a flight testing facility. Area 51 conspiracy theories: Aliens in the United States?See all videos for this article For years there was speculation about the installation, especially amid growing reports of UFO sightings in the vicinity. The site became known as Area 51, which was its designation on maps of the Atomic Energy Commission. Conspiracy theories gained support in the late 1980s, when a man alleging to have worked at the installation claimed that the government was examining recovered alien spacecraft.