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Midgets, Common Sense People, Children, Why Adults Are Fucking Losers When It's All Said & Done, Antifa, People Who Destroy Property, Pieces Of Shit In Society, Look At People On Social Media & You See How Psychotic Everyone Is!, Police Circling Around Me, The Amount Of Loyalty People Have To Politicians Is Crazy, Kash Patel, Trump Admin, Political Cults, MAGA, Libtards, Trump Told You To Believe Something So You Better Believe It, Trump And His Common Senae Politics Is Fucking Retarded, Everyone Is In A Fucking Cult, SFGiants Fans Started Following Me & Yeah It's Not Going To End Well, Degenerate Leftists Annoyances On A Daily Basis, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Rogan, + Much More Fuckery   TheSlyShow.com

Midgets, Common Sense People, Children, Why Adults Are Fucking Losers When It's All Said & Done, Antifa, People Who Destroy Property, Pieces Of Shit In Society, Look At People On Social Media & You See How Psychotic Everyone Is!, Police Circling Around Me, The Amount Of Loyalty People Have To Politicians Is Crazy, Kash Patel, Trump Admin, Political Cults, MAGA, Libtards, Trump Told You To Believe Something So You Better Believe It, Trump And His Common Senae Politics Is Fucking Retarded, Everyone Is In A Fucking Cult, SFGiants Fans Started Following Me & Yeah It's Not Going To End Well, Degenerate Leftists Annoyances On A Daily Basis, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Rogan, + Much More Fuckery!   TheSlyShow.com

Yeah, Yeah-- It's been a long time. Catch up with me and let's chat about how grateful I was to be home when Kendrick decided to Swiss Cheese the heck out of Aubrey.

On the podcast this week jD is in conversation with Pavement super-fan Alan. Listen in as they discuss his Pavement origin story and analyze song number 42 on the countdown.Transcript:Track 1:[0:00] Previously on the Pavement Top 50.Track 2:[0:02] All right, that was the fifth track from Bright in the Corners, Old to Begin.It's our third song from Bright in the Corners on the countdown so far.Of course, number 50 was Blue Hawaiian. And just last week, we listened to Embassy Row at number 44.So here we are with Old to Begin. In Josh and Pittsburgh, what do you think of this as track number 43?I love it. I love it. It was in my top 20. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah.I was kind of sitting at my desk at work thinking about where I rank these songs and set you back, set you back, set you back. Just kept ringing in my head.It's not, you know, it's probably lower down in my 20, but it's in my 20.Track 3:[0:52] Hey, this is Westy from the Rock and Roll Band Pavement, and you're listening to The Countdown.Hey.Track 1:[1:01] It's J.D. here, back for another episode of our Top 50 Countdown for Seminole Indie Rock Band Pavement. Week over week.Track 4:[1:08] We're going to countdown the 50 essential pavement tracks that you selected with your very own Top 20 ballads.Track 1:[1:14] I tabulated the results using an advanced abacus and my toes, and all that's left is for us to reveal this week's track.How will your favorite song fare in the ranking? You'll need to tune in.Track 4:[1:26] Or whatever the podcast equivalent of tuning in is.Track 1:[1:30] To find out. This week we're joined by Pavement superfan.Track 4:[1:33] Alan.Track 1:[1:34] So there's that. Alan! Hello. How are you doing, motherfucker?I'm very good, motherfucker.It's a bit cold here. Yeah, brother. Yeah, man. It's good to have you here.Thank you. It's lovely to be here.Where where are we talking to you from right now so i i am a glaswegian i'm a scotsman but i, uprooted to finland uh eight years ago so we live on the west coast of finland so kind of likein in the glasgow of of finland i would say the glasgow of finland glasgow finland yeah man so it's a very cool very cool place then because glasgow is very fucking cool Yeah, this is very,very cool just now, literally, because it's minus 25.So what is the closest city?Next biggest one here is probably Vasa. Okay. Population size.My Scandinavian geography isn't what it should be, but... We're about...[2:34] Three and a half hours on the train from helsinki so oh okay we we are we're quite quite probably about two thirds of the way up if you if you drive for another three hours thenyou're starting to hit like the arctic circle okay wow yeah that's that's wild that is so wild yeah well let's talk about pavement absolutely talk to me about your experience with payment oryour pavement origin and story yeah so i was one of the people that first heard pavement uh on the john peel show on radio one would have been um i don't know if you know who johnpeel is he was like a seminal he's a really really important dj in the uk um he just had the most eclectic eccentric taste of music so it'd be a bit of heavy dub reggae one minute some youknow post-industrial the next and And then he basically would just.Track 4:[3:32] He would put anything on and he just.Track 1:[3:35] He was a massive pavement fan as well.Track 4:[3:37] So I would have heard him on his show. I had a great friend called Mark Porchani, who was, in those days, he was an avid cassette taper of all the radio shows.I believe that he still has his archive stretching back then.Track 1:[3:52] So he might be someone that would be good for you to speak to.Holy shit. Yeah, man. That would be cool to get digitized. Yeah.Track 4:[3:59] Man.Track 1:[3:59] Well I can we can speak after this but I'll I'll yeah I think he would be someone really fascinating for you to speak to as well anyway digressing so yeah so I would have heardPavement on John Peele but then I missed their I think it was 92 they toured Slatted and Enchanted, and they played at Strathclyde Uni Strathclyde University in Glasgow, but I missedthat gig by a couple of days oh man yeah man yep same thing happened to Nirvana when they played the QMU in Glasgow I missed it I bought the single, three days after they playedyeah, good luck but I mean I got to see Pavement on all the other tours after that you did?Yeah yeah so oh you're a turbo fan man awesome man yeah yeah so Crooked Rain, and then yeah Breaking the Corners and.Track 4:[4:55] Hi what do you think it is about the uk that that really um they adopted pavement in a way in a way that the rest of the world just didn't you know like they were popular in the us ofcourse and popular in canada but it seems like the uk and scotland like it's much bigger than that yeah it's it's exactly that it's almost the same way people are about like the rocky horrorshow.[5:25] So i'm i'm a huge fan of the rocky horror show huge fan of pavement and it's kind of like it for a long time like in the mid 90s it was certainly it was like a barometer you know touse of okay these people seem kind of cool do you like pavement yes awesome you know so it's like like not not being like you know cool and elitist but just kind of okay these are peoplewho are obviously switched on they're probably into the same kind of literature and other bands that we would like so then it's just i think they were just such a are they still are they're justan amazing stepping stone into so much other you know literature and and architecture and psychology just the the subject matter of the songs once you actually delve through the lyricsit's yeah it puts you on a lot of different nice paths i would say yeah but i think especially like so i'm from glasgow so as you've experienced a glasgow audience we're very vocal and wereally we really attach ourselves you know it's the cities you know there's a lot of uh emotion there a lot of it's centered towards football teams but it's also bands we really really love ourbands.I'd say the next kind of Samoan city is probably like Manchester or Liverpool where it's the same kind of vibe as Glasgow.Track 1:[6:45] Wow. I visited both on my UK tour when I followed Pavan.I didn't tour, but I followed their tour. I went to Manchester.I was only there for like 30 hours, so I didn't get to see much, but I saw a show.So that was cool. What was your favorite tour that you saw them on?Track 4:[7:06] It would have been Brighton and the Corners because they played at the Glasgow School of Art.Track 1:[7:16] Okay. So I was studying just around the corner from it at the time.Track 4:[7:20] So I went up to the art school and I knew the guy called Simon Fox.Track 1:[7:27] Who was the entertainment officer there.Track 4:[7:29] So he was the one responsible for booking all the bands for that year.And I said to him you know like I'm obviously a massive fan is it possible to maybe see the guys before the sound check you know just just to say hi and stuff and he was like well wecan't do that but because we knew each other as well so he was like, do you want to come to the after show and I was like yeah, so yeah so yeah so there was a bunch of us went and Ithink it was five of us that went there and then And watched an amazing gig, a really, really great gig.And then we went to the after show afterwards and got hung up with them.I had a chat with Malcolmus for about two hours and just such, such engaging people.Track 1:[8:16] You know.Track 4:[8:16] And like met the whole band. Yeah.Track 1:[8:20] I had on like an old.Track 4:[8:21] It was a t-shirt that it turns out that Mark Ibold designed it.Track 1:[8:29] So I got it on the I got it on the Crooked Rain tour so it's like this kind of cross stitch thing, and then at the gig at the art school like, I bowed I was like can I buy that t-shirt off youbecause we don't have any left and I was like nah I love this man but they were just I mean I think they spent, easily five six hours just chilling with the fans in the after show and justbeing just really really nice guys and, And you nailed Malcomus down for that long. Yeah, yeah, man.Nicely done. I think I really annoyed, I don't know if you know.Track 4:[9:06] There's a really kind of very important band from Glasgow called The Pastels.Track 1:[9:11] So they were both on Geographic Domino at the same time.Track 4:[9:17] Okay.Track 1:[9:17] Yeah, Domino. So Pastels were the support band.Track 4:[9:20] Oh, okay. For that gig. And then Stephen.Track 1:[9:24] The singer, so he was talking to Malcomus and I came down the stairs was in Spotted Malcomus and I think I kind of interrupted him being a bit of a fanboy and I think Stephen gota little bit annoyed at me Stephen Pastel got a little bit annoyed at me but you know I think I've, we've made up since then I'm sure so well I mean.Track 3:[9:45] Man yeah so what was it about that show other than meeting the band or was that was that why that was the the show is it because you met the man, no i mean i think i bumped intohim again after other gigs as well and like, i just think it was uh it was that i think that that was peak i think that was just it was like they were just completely riding the zeitgeist and yeahthey were they were on their absolute a game you know and just yeah i just i just felt like they could have you know i can, thrown out a can down a set of stairs and it would still theywould still have got something really musical from it and you know just create some wonderful piece of music so what's your record which which is your record the one that you cleave tothe most right, tough call right sophie's choice yeah totally man but the track that i always go back to is here, like yeah but actually that's just my go-to and i was actually i was playing i'vegot two kids i've got a nine-year-old and a seven-year-old and uh i was playing it and my daughter was like is that your band and i was like no no this is uncle steven and his band it's uhit's not us but we would maybe aspire to being a tenth of that or even 1% of that.Track 4:[11:09] I think that's I think it's the same for a lot of people who've got so much attachment to that track but it's the same as any song really I mean it's for me having grown up you knowthat was my kind of teenage formative years.[11:26] Late teenage formative years in the early 20s and, just so many memories memories on you know when i bought that record or you know any of the records and you knowremembering being at different friends at their house and sticking vinyl on and listening to it for the first time and people there was a a guy uh i think his name was dawson he was acomplete metalhead uh he was a friend of a friend and he was like what is this you know and i was like oh this is paving this is a new record and he was he was hooked you know fromfirst listen yeah man we we just put it on.Track 1:[12:01] I think it was.Track 4:[12:02] Um, it was crooked rain put on and just, you know, play that four or five times in a row.Track 1:[12:08] And he was, he was like, this is awesome stuff. And then from that, that's a fucking record.Track 4:[12:12] Yeah.Track 1:[12:12] Yeah. I mean, that's fine.Track 4:[12:14] It's that they are just such a good, great gateway band.Track 1:[12:17] You know?Track 4:[12:18] I think they're like now I would say, the band that I'm probably equally as passionate about after them would be the Super Furry Animals Oh cool.Track 1:[12:31] I'm doing a podcast about them next week. Awesome man Awesome.Yeah It'll be out in the fall, that podcast will be out in the fall but I'm doing it next week It's like anyone who's never heard them before they're so lucky because they've got such a,beautiful back catalogue you know such a wealth of material there as well well we'll have to talk about them when we get off the get off the podcast yeah definitely because i would like toget your take what do you say we get to the main course and we we listen to track number 42 no no no all right just like all right we'll come right back after this break with more from alanand we'll talk Talk about track 42.Track 5:[13:23] Hey, this is Bob Mustanovich from Pavement. Thanks for listening.And now on with a countdown.Track 2:[13:31] 42.Track 6:[13:34] Hey, do you need a reason? Is there a separate season?Track 1:[16:37] Okay, track number 42, Easily Fooled, comes from the Rattled by Da Rush EP, and it's the third track on that EP, and it later appeared on the Sorted Sentinel edition of WowieZowie Reissue, along with its EP bandmate, False Scorpion, and it was track number 22 on that second disc of the Sorted Sentinels collection, the reissue.So Alan yeah my man what do you think of Easily Fooled love it love it love it love it it's on like I said to you off off air it's, probably one of my favourite tracks alongside here yeah it'sjust such an amazing track love the, the meandering nature of it just really.[17:26] Acerbic lyrics and yeah like it's awesome awesome track to jam along to, yeah I bet I bet it would yeah because it is very, jammy isn't it yeah absolutely and it's it's one of thoseones most of their stuff the more you listen it's like a lovely painting it's like an an aural painting it's the more you listen to it there's a new layer there's like a little little piano in the leftspeaker then there's a little guitar scrape in the right and you don't really notice maybe the first couple of listens and you hear these lovely, almost I think it's Malcomus kind of doing somekind of faux, mick jagger kind of high you know like vocal harmonizing rooms it's just it's just all these love you can just imagine them in the studio you know like or you know anothertrack another track another track you know and it's rare for them right yeah well yeah i think yeah apart from when like stanovich putting on they don't seem like studio builders to methey seem like one one take wonders you know yeah yeah i think it depends on the record so the fact that he's singing backup vocals with himself is wild.I love it. That whole single EP.[18:40] Awesome awesome yeah it has my it has my favorite line as well but yeah uh it takes centuries to build in seconds to fall oh just lovely lovely poetry yeah so yeah it is there'sthere's some real lovely uh and i love the rhythm yeah i love the rhythm of his lyrics i don't need a time i don't need an internal cuter yeah right like and the timekeeper part strikes mebecause the song starts with just bass guitar and vocal and then in the like third line of the song the drums come in yeah and it lifts the song like it just lifts it even more yeah that's just thestunning i think you can also hear in like the the latter parts of it it's like it's almost like like it's the kind of genesis for folk jam as well.Track 4:[19:39] Especially some of the vocal deliveries and some of the guitar phrase and the drums.It's like, I only noticed it like last night when I was listening to it.I was like, fuck, that sounds a lot like, I think it's more about the bit of, in folk jam when he starts talking about Irish folk tales scare the shit out of me.Track 1:[19:57] It's that.Track 4:[19:58] Those kind of phrases, you can hear like the, almost as if it's like a quick sketch and that then developed into that track.Track 1:[20:08] That's a...Yep, sorry, everyone froze there, sorry. No, it's okay. It's part of doing this with people from all over the world, right? Yeah.The United Family of Pavement. Yeah. Yeah, like I say, it's so nice to talk to somebody, because I did the whole first part, the whole first season of the show by myself.So it's so cool to hear people's pavement stories and what they think of these songs. Yeah.Track 3:[20:41] Where do you think um what do you think about where it falls easily fooled number 42 it's your favorite song so i'm guessing you wish it were a bit higher top top three and it's topthree for you oh fuck yeah i would say grounded grounded here and easily fooled would be very very tough top three place for me wow so you must be a bit disappointed that it's 42 no it'sif someone here if someone's introduced to it that they've never heard of before then that's what matters it's pavement doesn't matter where it goes they're all fucking number one so youknow, yeah man there is no, bad pavement track even Westing by Musket and Sexton there's a lot of difficult pieces on that but even then there's no bad track on that either no I agree Iagree.Track 1:[21:38] Those first EPs are very different.I like more melodic stuff, but you get that. You get Box Elder right away.Which is fantastic. So dude, you're in a band. Yeah, yeah. Hi.I'm going to do a Pavement pod list again this year. Yep.Where I get people to cover Pavement songs songs and send them in and then i release i release it yeah as awesome as a podcast yeah that's going to come out in july so get cracking onthat.Track 4:[22:23] I'm trying i i'll need i'll need to get in touch with andrew graham and then pass if he doesn't know about you already then i'll connect you guys up um but i think he's he's he's afascinating guy he's got such a yeah again a very um broad musical taste as well like you know he's a thanks i find that pavement fans usually do have pretty broad musical taste yeah yeahyou know they're they're more accepting and they're more open to listen to new and different things yeah yeah but i think i mean i think it's lovely now seeing them because i went to thethe the reunion um yeah gigs on 2010 and that's like it was just amazing to see this new at least one new generation coming up you know and you're going fuck you know like as as cultishas they were the first time around it's great to see them kind of getting their juice you know and like actually you know, making a bit of money off it you know and like just agreed 100 likei hope this is fun in their retirement absolutely man but i don't know if you know the story but well one of the rumors of why why they did the whole reunion concerts, was apparentlyBob.[23:47] Stanovich was like a fucking degenerate gambler and he got in deep to the wrong people for a lot of money and then he approached the guys and went the only way we can makefast cash is if you know these concerts, and he went fuck it we'll do like five to begin with and that'll cover it and then we'll see how it goes and then just snowballed from that holy shityeah but again you don't know if he's, obviously he's a bit of a character so I mean that was it came from his mouth in an interview so you know you don't know if he's the king of bullshitor not so, that's rad yeah man, anything else you want to add about Easily Fooled?Track 1:[24:31] If you've not heard it before go and listen to it and if you've heard it before go and listen to it five more times and just absorb absorb absorb yeah and just and read read the lyrics it'si mean read the lyrics on their own and their own merit and then and you know really listen to them and the kind of cadence and the delivery and and the track when they're when it'splaying yeah Yeah.Lovely, lovely messages. And yeah, it's been great talking to you. Yeah, you too.Uh, that's all I got for you this week.So without further ado, stay cool and wash your goddamn hands.Track 3:[25:12] Absolutely, man. Hey.Track 1:[25:14] As we say here.Track 3:[25:15] Thanks for listening to meeting Malcolm. This a pavement podcast where we count down the top 50 pavement tracks as selected by you. If you've got questions or concerns, pleaseshoot me an email. JD at MeetingMathemist.com.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/meeting-malkmus-a-pavement-podcast/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

“And in THIS corner…” Already knowing (going in) that our 1988 HEAD-TO-HEAD DEATH MATCH was gonna be “bigger than China”, the Bunkerpoon oversight committee made the executive decision to break this “hog” of an episode into a two-part cliffhanger dangler. At this point, we've covered side 1 and now we're tackling side 2 of Metallica's …AND JUSTICE FOR ALL and Slayer's SOUTH OF HEAVEN. And let's just say that since “the upstairs and downstairs no longer match” you're gonna wanna “get you some popcorn” and brace yourselves for multiple “hockey soccer” moments because this one was a bloodbath to the end. It's time to reconvene in the Bunkerpoon with “Mr. Black, Mr. Dice, and Mr. Shave” as we discuss the first “frontman drummer” in metal as well as which song “should have been track 11 on Reign In Blood”. Behold “the end of Metallica thrash and the most doomy Slayer song ever” and get a “sneak peek” of what our NEXT Death Match is gonna be when you JOIN US for PART 2 of our 1988 HEAD-TO-HEAD DEATH MATCH between METALLICA's …And Justice For All and SLAYER's South of Heaven.   Visit www.metalnerdery.com/podcast for more on this episode Help Support Metal Nerdery https://www.patreon.com/metalnerderypodcast   Leave us a Voicemail to be played on a future episode: 980-666-8182 Metal Nerdery Tees and Hoodies – metalnerdery.com/merch and kindly leave us a review and/or rating on the iTunes/Apple Podcasts - Spotify or your favorite Podcast app Listen on iTunes, Spotify, Podbean, Google Podcasts or wherever you get your Podcasts. Follow us on the Socials: Facebook - Instagram - Twitter Email: metalnerdery@gmail.com   Can't be LOUD Enough Playlist on Spotify Metal Nerdery Munchies on YouTube @metalnerderypodcast Show Notes: (00:01): “This is NOT an Ozzy episode…” / “Who's the King of Darkness…Ozzy?”/ “At the very least…he's definitely a prophet of metal…”/ “Apparently Satan's got #hugetits …”/ #youcantoffendanatheist / “You don't believe in any of it…”/ ***WARNING: #listenerdiscretionisadvised ***/ ***WELCOME BACK EVERYONE TO THE METAL NERDERY PODCAST!!!*** / #heneedscrackers or #popcorn (“I did it for you…”) #popcornASMR / “Mr. Shave…”/ “The downstairs does not match…”/ #fromthetits #ballbeardtransplant / #thisepisodesclinkyoftheepisode #MrBlack ***SKIP TO THE DOCKET AT #THEDOCKET ***/ #thisepisodesbeeroftheepisode #IronShield #HeroesHelles #fuckyeah #fourpointeightABV #daydrinkingbeer (“A very slight honey finish…”) / “I've loaded my face…”/ #bedbeard #majorvanityissues / “I had pretty good hair…”/ #dontgiveup / “You look like #Meatloaf no matter what…”/ #diettribe / “I'm totally gonna get laid…”/ #Doomsicle #onetakewonders / “Dude, we'd be rolling in pussy and cocaine…”   (10:06): “Trip6 is our Australian ambassador…”/ “Should I call it a hog?”/ #erectionyear / #penisterms / “It's enormous, it's huge…it's bigger than China…”/ #correspondence ***HIT US UP ON THE SOCIALS AT #METALNERDERYPODCAST OR EMAIL US AT METALNERDERY@GMAIL.COM OR SEND US A VOICEMAIL AT 980-666-8182!!!*** / #voicemailsegment #BobFromOhio #PookyPark (“This one's really freaky…”) / “That sounds like a nightmare…”/ “I'm gonna come spend the night and stay in your bedroom…”/ “Black and white is instantly creepy…”/ “What's creepier: AI, the 1950's, or Black and White?”/ “It tastes like banana bread…”   (16:16): #TheDocket METAL NERDERY PODCAST PRESENTS: THE 1988 HEAD-TO-HEAD DEATH MATCH FEATURING SLAYER'S SOUTH OF HEAVEN AND METALLICA'S …AND JUSTICE FOR ALL- PART II / “This is our first ever #cliffhanger episode…”/ “The upstairs and the downstairs no longer match…this is our Re-Load episode…”/ “For those keeping score…” (***Check out the previous episode for details…***) / #hockeysoccer #socckey #bolthree / #Slayer vs #Metallica #SouthOfHeaven vs #AndJusticeForAll / MANDATORY SUICIDE #killercloser #sideone (“Can you go to the very end?”) #spokenword / “Ever heard the song Bullet The Blue Sky? It's actually pretty cool for #U2 …”/ “You guys know WAY too much U2!”/ “Which song is a better closer…for side 1?”/ “I'm gonna go #hockeysoccer on that one…”/ “I'm telling you right now…it's their #StairwayToHeaven …”/ “ONE made me read a book…” / #uhhhkay / #letsfist    (26:36): THE SHORTEST STRAW #killeropener #sidetwo (“Who needs bass when you've got a guitar that sounds like that?”) / “That riff is weird…”/ “Here's the analogy you're looking for…”/ “Dude you're the Nikki Sixx of drummers…”/ “He's the best #frontmandrummer in metal…”/ “Back then he put it in one place…”/ “Foreskin adds like 6 inches…”/ “I can already tell you what wins…relative to openers.” / #letsfistagain / GHOSTS OF WAR (“We should at least play this next part…if the drummer can do it.”) / “This should have been song 11 on Reign in Blood…” / “This is track 6…”/ “However…if you wanna talk about the #killeropener …” / “Referring back to the last episode…Jeff Hanneman was selling #Converse …”/ #weirddreams / “It'll be huge in China…”/ #murderonthefrontrow / #backwhenihadhair / “You said Photograph and that's where I went…”   (38:38): “So it's Ghosts against Harvester…” / HARVESTER OF SORROW (“That guitar is tight as a gnat's ass…”) / “I think Bill's gotcha on the #YEAH …”/ “It's a great song, but it's NOT Ghosts of War…”/ #harmonizedriffs / “I told you this wasn't gonna be fair…”/ “This is gonna sound like a dick thing to say…this is gonna be a hog thing to say…”/ FRAYED ENDS OF SANITY #windowsapproved #reversefadein #foreshadowing / “Let's go about a minute ahead…”/ “To me this is one of the most heavy metal moments in a Metallica song…”/ #fuckingamazing #harmonyriffs (“This is the deep cut for this record…”) / “To be fair and compare…I can already tell you…”/ READ BETWEEN THE LIES #itsallballs (“Tell me preacher, how do you know?”) #uglychords / “We're just sayin'…” #nohate #nothatin    (51:47): “It's my least favorite on that album…THAT song is one of my favorites.”/ CLEANSE THE SOUL #happyriff (“It's their Carlton…”) / “It's the happiest Slayer song ever…” / #majorchords / “My biggest problem with the upcoming song…they could have circumcised it easily.”/ TO LIVE IS TO DIE #thesoundtracktoheaven (“They could have trimmed the fat…but it was prog…it was long.”) / “You're a singer dude, it's fine…”/ #megamix (“Somebody should do that…”) / “Let it go until after the #HetfieldSolo …”/ #STFUASMR / #dirge #fourpartharmonies    (1:01:03): “It's gonna be #soccerhockey bruh…”/ “These two shouldn't go against each other…”/ “Battered or Blackened…(?)” / #beerfist / DYERS EVE #killercloser #fromthetits (“The drums are doing ALL the heavy lifting…”) / #tobefair / “This was before triggers wasn't it?”/ (“I've outgrown that fucking lullaby…”) / “That sounds like a Puppets solo…”/ “This is gonna be so hard…”/ #SophiesChoice (“That just goes to show how shitty it is to be a parent…”) / “They died in my balls, it's totally fine…”/ #vasectomyASMR (“Get your vasectomies when you get your driver's license, kids…”) / #tainttoggleswitch #IntelligentDesign / “I'm stalling…”/ “The prostate's in the butthole, bro…”/ “Tastes like pennies…”/ SPILL THE BLOOD (“Just like that!?”) #markthetime / “This is probably one of the darkest Slayer songs ever…”/ “As much as I love this…which song is more thrash?”/ “I'm gonna stand on my laurels…”/ #killercloser (“After that, there was no more #MetallicaThrash …”) / Final thoughts and reflections regarding the differences between South Of Heaven and …And Justice For All / “That's #LedZeppelin …”/ #DyerMaker / “How do you decide?”/ “Tacos or spaghetti?”/ “You know what we've gotta do for the next one?” / The final tally / “And the winner is…”/ “I kinda like the #JudasPriest version a little better…” / #1977 / “It's definitely Slayer's first doom record…”/ DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR / ***THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND BE SURE TO TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS & NEIGHBORS ABOUT US IN ANY AND ALL HEAVY METAL RELATED FORUMS AND SUCH!!!*** / #screenshots are your friends / “You'll look like a glazed donut…”/ ***LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT #THEFINALVERDICT ***/ ***BE SURE TO HEAD OVER TO THE BUNKERPOON GIFT SHOPPE FOR ALL OF YOUR METAL NERDERY PODCAST MERCHANDISE NEEDS AT metalnerdery.com/merch ***/ #outroreel 

After a quick review of a victorious scene in San Francisco, your hosts let ambidextrous folks make them a bit political. Whoops!Mark brings Sarah's Scribbles. He requests a story or two from his co-host. Be careful of those nasty phantom stairs and slippery slopes.Grant brings Yeah It's Chill. Mark provides non-expert opinions on canine behavior based on his reckons.Send feedback to comicalstart@gmail.com.

Erwin Verveken, former professional cyclocross rider and organizer of the UCI World Gravel Championships, discusses the history and growth of the UCI Gravel Series. He explains how the series was created to provide a more diverse and competitive experience for riders, and how it has quickly gained popularity and attracted top riders from around the world. Erwin also shares insights into the qualification process, the different types of gravel courses, and the future of gravel racing. Episode sponsor: Dynamic Cyclist (TheGravelRide for 15% off) Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Key Takeaways: The UCI Gravel Series was created to provide a more diverse and competitive experience for riders, with a variety of courses and race formats. The series has quickly grown in popularity, attracting top riders from around the world and expanding to include more events each year. Gravel racing is a unique blend of road racing and off-road riding, with courses that can vary in technicality and terrain. The UCI Gravel World Championships allows both elite riders and amateurs to compete together, creating a unique and inclusive racing experience. The series is constantly evolving, with new events being added each year and plans to expand to more countries in the future. [TRANSCRIPT] [00:00:00] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Erwin, welcome to the show. [00:00:02] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure of being here. [00:00:06] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): I'm excited to talk to you and learn more about the UCI World Gravel Championships and a little bit of the history there. But as always, I'd just love to start out with learning a little bit about you. I know you've got a, a strong history in the sport of cycling. So just a quick overview of how you got involved in the sport. **** - (): And then let's talk about how you got involved in. Kind of the event organizing side of the sport with UCI. [00:00:29] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Yeah. So I, I've been a pro rather mainly in cyclocross, uh, from 1995 till 2010. So a 16 year career in cyclocross, uh, uh, from the age of 22 to 38. And then when I retired from cycling in 2010, I started to work as a cyclocross and also a bit of model by coordinator at a lot. So lots of is a Belgian sports marketing company. **** - (): Um, uh, at that time we were, I wouldn't say small, but yeah, it's, it's, it's grown a lot in, in the last, uh, 15 years. Um, and so initially I was only doing. Cyclocross, uh, in winter and mountain bike in summer. And then gradually, uh, I got other projects and in 2011, we started to talk to the, to the UCI to, uh, well, to reform a bit, the, the masters road world championships. **** - (): So, um, yeah, everybody knows Ironman, Ironman, uh, and triathlon. You have to. Qualify somewhere in an arm and worldwide, uh, to get your ticket for the World Championships and, uh, well, the, the, the road Masters World Championships, uh, at the UCI, they were always organized in the same city in, in the same period for, for 20 years in Austria, uh, and there were some complaints of course, because the, the, yeah, always the same course, uh, the same type of riders, um, yeah, World Championships should move, uh, uh, you know, One day it should be a flat and fast race and then a race for climbers or for classical riders. **** - (): So we came with a proposal to reform it like in Ironman with the qualifier series, uh, which, which started in 2011 with seven qualifier events and then a world championships. And well, it moved from seven the next year to 20. And yeah, now for next year, it's. events. It's the biggest series we've ever had. **** - (): 2024. I mean, [00:02:26] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): curious, Erwin, when, when you expanded the qualification, the number of qualification races, did you end up expanding the number of athletes that could actually compete in the world championships for the masters? [00:02:38] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Yeah. Uh, so it has always been 25 percent per age group will qualify for the world championships. And so the results are major made up per age group. Um, and, and, uh, yeah. So from that, uh, point, uh, Uh, yeah. First year I think we had 700 drivers at the world championships. Uh, and then it grew to over a thousand thousands, 500, 2000. **** - (): And in the last few years, we are in between two and a half and 3000, which is still okay. Uh, one year we decided to lower the percentage of qualified rider from 25 to 20 because of safety. Uh, we, we got 3000 riders at the start of, uh. Of one single event on a day, uh, so the Grand Fonda World Championships, but then it was, uh, yeah, 2020, the COVID year, so, and, and, and afterwards, uh, yeah, it took some time for riders to start traveling again. **** - (): So we, we went back to 25%. And in that idea in 2019 at the end of the season in a debriefing with UCI, we proposed also to make up a similar series of gravel events. Gravel is big in the States. I think the first real gravel events date from 2005, 2006 or so. Um, and they, yeah, we saw in Europe and other continents, but mainly Europe, um, gravel has always been Uh, a bit more recreational, um, never competitive. **** - (): Um, and it's only, let's say the last five years that there's really competitive parallel events. Um, so, so yeah, and at the end of 2019, we proposed. A similar setup with the qualifier series, uh, leading up to a yearly world championships. Uh, which then, well, got postponed in 2020, 2021 because of COVID. Uh, so the, the, the first season was 2022 with 11 qualifier events. **** - (): Uh, and this year already 18. And next year 25. So yeah, it's growing very fast and especially the number of participants is growing very very fast. So um And and the big difference is in gravel in the gravel world cheers and also the gravel world championships also elite riders can participate. So Where the, the ground from the world series is mainly for masters and amateurs. **** - (): Uh, the gravel world series and the gravel world championships is, is for everybody. Uh, but still in the same concept where. In front there is a real battle amongst the best elite riders but in the back you as a recreational rider, you can also participate and if you're really fit and Keen and and also for the masters at a later age You can still qualify for the world championships and also right there together with well this year what for not more each? **** - (): Following they were all at the start So yeah, I can imagine if you if you start in the back end and you're just five minutes behind these riders Uh, at the start, uh, that it's an amazing feeling to, to be in the same race with all those top stars. [00:05:47] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, yeah, that's I remember speaking to Bruce from the Highland Gravel Classic in Arkansas, who's the the one US gravel race that's part of the UCI series this year and the coming year in 2024. And I remember walking away from that conversation with that same feeling that Despite what some people in the United States may think about, you know, high performance gravel racing, and as it may detour from their vision of a community style gravel race as people who are around the sport and like other aspects of the sport, just being able to line up at a, at a UCI event with the names you just mentioned would be a thrill of a lifetime. [00:06:27] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Yeah. I think so. Um, of course, gravel in the States, uh, is, is, is much older and has much more tradition and, uh, your biggest events are, are still bigger than, than the UCI events. Uh, our biggest event this year was 1700 and probably next year we will go over 2000, but yeah, if you speak about the real classics, uh, unbound and, and, and, and, well, you have several of them. **** - (): They are more than double than our biggest race at the moment, but I think we still have potential to grow. Um, I see that, um, what, what really excites me is that after all these events and especially after the world championships, you all, you hear all these top stars telling, Hey, this was fun, huh? Wout van Aert had big trouble, a flat tire, a crash at the world championships, but he still continued because he liked it so much. **** - (): And he yeah. Enjoyed. Riding a gravel race. So yeah, he is, by the way, my neighbor because he's living in the same city as me even. Well, if you count in miles like you do in the States, it's a bit more than a mile from where I live. And he called me and told, Hey, I want to do a UCI gravel race because I want to do the world championships this year. **** - (): So all of a sudden he was there at the Belgian qualifier event in August and then six weeks later at the world championships and he really enjoyed it. So And that's the good thing. They are pure ambassadors, not only for cycling sports in general, but also for gravel because, uh, they have a lot of fun. **** - (): Um, Valverde was there, Moritz, he said, well, it's my first gravel race I ever did, world championships. I always liked. Going off road, uh, mountain bike, but in gravel there's much more speed, it's much more fun. And, and yeah, I want to do this more next year, especially because of course he's wearing the nice rainbow jersey. [00:08:26] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): That's right. Yeah. I think it's going to be interesting to see how within the European Peloton, if it follows the U S. You know, in, in the early days of gravel as professional athletes started moving over like Ted King, for example, would dabble in it. And then I think he told some of his ex pro tour friends that, Hey, this is fun. **** - (): Plus you started to see them being able to make a career out of it. And obviously the likes of Wout van Aert is not going to leave the pro tour anytime soon, but it is interesting to think about. Riders who are later in their career, who still have power in their legs and enthusiasm in their heart to start seeing European gravel racing as a way to extend their career in a way that maybe gives them a little bit more joy than they had racing in the pro peloton after all those [00:09:16] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Yeah. No, for sure. Um, I think there are two types of writers. You have the real top stars, like Rod van Aert, like Moritz and Demi Vollering. And I'm sure they will probably do one or two events a year when it fits in their program. But their focus will never be on gravel, uh, during the season, but well, the position of the gravel world championships at the end of the road season, uh, is ideal for them to end their season. **** - (): And I'm sure that, uh, one day, uh, probably also, uh, Pogacar will be there. He was already there at the first world championships last year. but wasn't allowed from his team to take part, but he was in the, in the VIP area at the finish line. The day after he won the Tour of Lombardia, so the last classic of the season, it was on Saturday and the gravel world championships were, well, nearby. **** - (): It's only a hundred kilometer away. So, and he really enjoyed it and he said, well, I want to do this race. But, yeah, it's still, um, there's still like the feeling of, okay, this is a dangerous sport, uh, uh, you can crash, you can, yeah, whatever, and it can jeopardize your next season, but as it's at the end of the season, I don't see really a point, uh, you see some, some crashes and, and, um, Yeah, that's, that's probably part of gravel, but it's not like a major crash. **** - (): It's always in small groups. Uh, gravel is, is, is not to be compared with, with mountain bike or cyclocross. It's a, it's, it's an off road discipline, but the type of event is much more road race. Um, and that's what we also also see in the last two years. I'm having my background in cyclocross and cyclocross is very big in Belgium, but the real gravel, I know the real cyclocross specialists, like the ones who do the full season of cyclocross. **** - (): Uh, and not focus on the road. Yeah. They usually, by the end of the race, the last hour, they, they, they lose contact with the, with, with, with the, the road is, um, uh, gravel is much more a road race than it will ever be, a cyclocross or a mountain bike. It's not technical at all. Um, and, and yeah, in my opinion, it's, it's, it's for the pure. **** - (): Road specialists from the, from the spring classic said that the ones who like, uh, party rebel, we're like tour of Flanders, uh, those type of guys. They are the ones who are the real gravel specialists. [00:11:41] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I think that makes sense. I think one thing that we've learned in racing gravel over these years is that anything can happen and it's your ability as a rider to deal with unpredictable situations. And to your point as a cyclocross racer. Every lap, there's an unpredictable situation that you have to deal with and you have to deal with nursing your bike and not being too hard on the equipment. **** - (): And there's certainly no, you know, there's no team car following you very quickly. Although in cyclocross, you can swap [00:12:09] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Yeah. You can switch bikes two times a lap. Um, and, and you can have it cleaned and everything. So, um, no, that's, that's, I think it makes. It's part of the story why it's, it's so popular because, uh, he lost 10 minutes at the world championships, but he still continued. And it's more like the epic, right? **** - (): Like you see in, uh, in Paris, uh, it's, it's kind of a survival race. Um, even though you have a lot of bad luck in the beginning, the race is never over. You can still continue. You can still make up and, and, and, uh, close gaps. And so. That feeling of, of, of, of like a real epic race in, in epic circumstances. At this moment, we, we had to ice the world championships in dry, in dry circumstances, but yeah, one day we'll also have them in, uh, in very wet circumstances, like you had, uh, I think unbound was this year in very muddy conditions. **** - (): So, and that will make it very epic. Uh, but to me it's, it's yeah, if you compare it with European. Cycling it's, it's, it's, it's, it's much more a copy of, uh, what Paris Roubaix is every year. [00:13:24] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, yeah, I was going to ask you to the extent in which you, you were there and understand the run up when that first world championships event happened in the qualifiers. How are you thinking about the criteria for the course and course construction? Were there some constraints that the UCI put on the event to make it in the mold of what they were expecting? [00:13:47] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Well, the first year, first of all, um, because of COVID and, and, and yeah. Let's say COVID ended, but, uh, yeah, everybody was still afraid to set up a new event and even the World Championships, uh, beginning of 2022. We had a few candidates, uh, to run the World Championships, but, uh, one after another, they decided, okay, maybe it's too early. **** - (): Let's skip 2022, but we'll focus on 2023 or 2024. Um, So we found an organizer rather late in Italy, so Filippo Pozzato, the ex pro rider. He did a good job because it was like on a short period. He had to prepare the World Championships, but the World Championships were not the typical gravel race. I know from from this doing this series for sure. **** - (): Not the typical gravel race you have in the States. It was like a 50 50 road gravel race and even the gravel was like, yeah, it was flat. It was Um, yeah, to me a bit too much of a road race. Um, um, um, but yeah, it was all last minute. I think that the, uh, the organizer was awarded two months prior to the race. **** - (): Uh, then yeah, the full process of having courses approved, having them checked and then getting the necessary approvals from the different towns. Yeah, it took some time and there was not really. to, to, to, to make an update, um, um, which was done this year, this year. Uh, we had to switch organizer and it was also, uh, only, only two months before the world championships, but the course, which was presented was much better than the first edition, uh, in percentage was more off road, more gravel, but also much more exciting, uh, flats, uh, yeah. **** - (): Paved sections in between, but also a lot of elevation, um, and a very beautiful course, I think very different from what you have in the States. Um, if, if I see the images and the, and the videos from, from Unbound and the American races, yeah, they are. Even more road racing, uh, on gravel roads, um, yeah, in percentage, much more gravel roads, but it's less technical than what we see as gravel events in mainly Europe, which are, um, I wouldn't say they are not more towards mountain bike for sure or not, but they are, um, not wide open big boulevards where you can ride the truck. **** - (): Uh, it's always a smaller, uh, Uh, yeah, forest roads, farm roads. Um, it's, it's more technical. [00:16:38] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a wide diversity of gravel racing in the United States. Obviously, to your point, the Unbound may be on sort of dirt roads [00:16:48] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Yeah. And that's maybe the image we have from, from American gravel racing. [00:16:51] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, yeah, no, it's very interesting to hear you say that because if I'm thinking about like what you might see from an unbound or an SVT gravel, that would very much be the takeaway. **** - (): I would have as well that these are, you know, sort of road racing style open, you know, wide roads that give a lot of opportunity for moving around. Um, but if you dig into the gravel cycling world, there are a lot of events that really push The capabilities of the bikes and really create sections that have a huge impact on the race based on one's technical abilities. **** - (): So, you know, they might go into single track, they might go into mud, they might have river crossings, all the types of things that would really push both the rider's skill levels and equipment. [00:17:37] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Well, for, for the UCI, uh, two things, of course, when, when we started up the, the UCI Gravel Series and the Gravel World Championships. Um, one of the first things we decided is, uh, you have a few of, of, of, uh, of very long, uh, endurance races, uh, a month is, uh, 300 kilometers or even more than 200 miles. Um, [00:18:00] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. 200 miles. Yeah, [00:18:01] - ():  Erwin Verveken: we decided to, with the UCI gravel world series to have like the typical, um, duration of a road race. **** - (): So five, six hours. Um, racing, not, not like unmount this, I guess, 10, 11 hours of racing. Uh, and that's what we are. We're not aiming for that. That's, that's like, yeah, a very big endurance race. Uh, our goal is to keep it in between 150 and 200 kilometers. Um, depending a bit on the elevation and on what is available. **** - (): Um, and then, uh, a second thing is so like single track. It is possible when there's no alternative, so to connect two sections, uh, with a small single track, uh, towards the end of the race. Yeah, it's not preferred, but if there's no other solution, then we allow it. But the big majority should be on wide open gravel roads where we can also ride a car. **** - (): That's the goal of the UCI Gravel World Series. [00:19:10] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I certainly noticed in the, in the race coverage this past year, and certainly commentary from both the men and women on the U S team that the narrowness of the roads. And you hear this refrain, even when road cyclists go over to Europe, it's just another world when you're trying to pack 200 people into these, through these narrow villages. **** - (): And certainly the other big thing that stood out in some of the video I saw was, Some of the, um, the 180 degree switchbacks on the roads and trails that the riders had to navigate and the, the chaos that ensued around that and how that impact the race. [00:19:47] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Yeah, well, I'm not sure about the 180 degree turns. Uh, you mean now in the last world championships? [00:19:55] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. There was one scene that I saw the riders cutting across the, the earliest part of the corner to get around and join the group. [00:20:04] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Yeah, there were some. Uh, well, it's, it's a famous YouTube video from, from the law at the first half an hour of the, of the gravel world championships in the elite category. Yeah. I don't know. I think it's from an American rider who filmed it with his scope. [00:20:18] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): yeah. I think it's from Payson McKelvin. [00:20:21] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Um, yeah, it gives a good idea of the hectic in the start. **** - (): Uh, and of course, well, our, our, our courses are not fence. They are just marked with science and everybody has a GPS device on his bike. Um, so that's, yeah. I presume it's also the same in the States, so you don't have, uh, uh, tape, uh, to, to, to, to prevent riders from cutting corners. So, um, I think that's, that's the spirit of gravel. **** - (): So, um, yeah, it's only in the, in the first. 10, 15 k in, uh, uh, in the course. Uh, but next year, because then we are ourselves, the organized, so the company I'm working for Goot, so is, uh, organizing the, the next world championships in Belgium. Um, yeah, it will hardly be impossible to, to cut corners there, uh, in the, in the first. **** - (): Part of the race and where it's possible. Yeah, we'll probably also try to prevent it Without making too much Yeah It's, it's, it's never the goal to make like a fenced cyclocross or mountain bike course. Um, that's, that's not our goal, but yeah, different type of racing. Uh, I've done, yeah, because I'm, I'm managing the, these, these races. **** - (): And, um, of course also ex pro rider. So I take my bike to a lot of these events and try to ride them. To get a good impression on the different type of events, uh, if I compare our events, um, uh, which are in the series, there's indeed a lot of different events. Uh, next year we will also, uh, organize the, the Belgian Gravel Championships, uh, which are. **** - (): Uh, very typical American style and Bond style, uh, gravel racing, which is very uncommon in Belgium. But yeah, in the north, there's like a section where, where we can have those kind of races. Uh, so. There's a bit of a difference, but, but yeah, uh, the good thing about gravel is that, uh, you can have very technical races, um, uh, but, but the majority are on wide open roads, fast, uh, uh, you don't need to be too technical. **** - (): If you see, um, more rich winning the world championships. Although I think he's very technical as a rider, as a roadie. Uh, but also Jasper Stavun winning the first European Championships. Um, I don't think he's very technical as a roadie. So, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's something which, which can suit any, any, uh, any road specialist. [00:23:00] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Gotcha. And when you think about the courses in the men's courses and the women's courses, as I understand it, they differed in distance. Can you talk a little bit about the logic behind that? [00:23:11] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Well, I know that in, in, in, in the States and also let's say in, in, in general in English speaking countries, it's also the same in Britain and in Australia. There's a, there's a big movement to have women and men having the same distance. If you see it cycling, uh, in history, and then I mean, from 50 years back, and even now, all disciplines, uh, being cyclocross, mountain bike, road, uh, women and men have different distances for the World Championships and World Cups. **** - (): Uh, you can be, it's worth a discussion. I know that, uh, in, in. The English speaking countries, there's more, uh, a vote to have them equal, but I don't think there's, well, gender equality doesn't mean that they have to have the, the same distance. I think the media attention should be the same and, and the price money should be the same, but, uh, the, the distance, uh, if you have, uh, the women racing over 260, 270 kilometers, the road world championships. **** - (): It would give a totally different dynamic and it would mean a much more individual race by the end of the race because then it's pure endurance. Well, for the man. Uh, yeah, it's it's another type of race, so I'm not really convinced if they should have, uh, the same distance for men and women. Um, [00:24:42] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Are you thinking about it in terms of time? Are you shooting for a similar amount of time out there on the bike for [00:24:48] - ():  Erwin Verveken: no, not even time. Um, we did many surveys amongst the participants after the World Championships, uh, both in Gran Fondo and Gravel. And if you ask, uh, women if they prefer to have the same distance as men, probably Americans and, yeah, Australians, they would go for it. Yeah, the same distance, but it depends also a bit on what riders prefer. **** - (): Uh, everybody is, is, if you're somebody who has a great endurance, uh, you will pick the same distance as the man. If you're more explosive and you're more a tactic, uh, uh, yeah, a strong sprinter type of rider. You prefer a shorter course. So, but in general, we see that, uh, if we ask men, women directly, our participants, that the majority still prefers a shorter distance for, uh, for women. **** - (): Um, [00:25:41] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. I mean, I think it's an interesting debate and I'm certainly not one to opine too strongly one way or the other, but I do imagine that you have more dynamic racing in the shorter distances [00:25:53] - ():  Erwin Verveken: that's what I'm. [00:25:54] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): people complaining with me about this. [00:25:56] - ():  Erwin Verveken: So I, I don't know, women on the road, for instance, the, uh, the road, World Championships now in Glasgow for women. I don't know, but I think there were 150, 160 and men were 260. In general, they're around that distance. But if you have the women also on the 260, well, it will be a pure endurance race. **** - (): And by the end, they will be, there's a big chance that there will be one. One by one. So, um, and then on the meet, I'm floating can start racing again because she's she's a super strong rider who survives everybody by the end of the race when it's a very hard race. Um, so, yeah, um, it's worth the discussion. **** - (): But if you ask the riders, I think the majority will still prefer to have a shorter distance for women because it's indeed another dynamic. [00:26:51] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. When you think about, uh, and I do want to get into the master's element of this cause I think that's fascinating. And for our listeners who are non professional athletes, I think it's a great and interesting opportunity. But one final question at the elite level, how do you determine how many riders an individual country can bring to the event? [00:27:10] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Well, so the basic goal is that everybody should qualify. But, uh, in order to promote the first editions of the World Championships and, uh, yeah, to also have national teams and the federations involved, in 2022 and also this year, the UCI decided to grant 20 wildcards to every national federation. For riders, um, um, so in the past two years, now 2022, 2023, they could be used by any rider. **** - (): Uh, so also the Masters and, and, and, and the Age Group riders. Uh, for 2024, it will only be limited for the Elite category. And gradually, it's our goal to limit the number of wildcards. So riders should be really be encouraged to qualify. But on the other hand, first year we had Peter Sagan, we had Mathieu we had, uh, Greg van Auermaat all participating. **** - (): And without those wildcards, they wouldn't have been there. Uh, Pauline Ferrand Bréveau. This year Vollering, uh, Wout van Aert, uh, well, Wout qualified, but, uh, the other riders, Mohoritch, um, we were really happy with them at the start. So we want to keep a certain amount of, uh, of, of wildcards for the, for the top level riders. **** - (): And yeah, we'll see from year to year, uh, evaluate after every edition of the World Championships, if we have to stick to, uh, I don't know, maybe 10 wildcards, uh, maximum per country, or more wildcards for the bigger countries, uh, less wildcards for the smaller countries. But this year we also had riders from Guinea Bissau and from Barbados and, uh, yeah, like very exotic countries at the start. **** - (): Uh, and they wouldn't have been there without these wildcards, so, um. Yeah, I'm still in favor of having them, but maybe limit them a bit more. So the drivers really are encouraged to have to go to a qualifier. Yeah, [00:29:04] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): And you mentioned that that qualification, it sounds like it's standard across the board. If you finish at a UCI gravel world cup qualifier event in the top 25%, you've punched your tickets to go to the world championships. [00:29:17] - ():  Erwin Verveken: The only change next year is that, um. And the first two years, qualification was always per age group, but then we saw this year Verde. Yeah. He saw, uh, in the meantime, 42 years old. So he, he then had to qualify in the 40 to 44 age category and Okay. The, the two races he did were, were not the biggest one. **** - (): I think the, the one in, uh, the two in Spain, he won, were like five, 600 drivers at the start. So then it's still okay to to, to have him in the front. But well, as these events grow bigger and bigger, uh, we decided to also have the elite category as part of the qualifier series. So before every race, you have to choose, okay, I want to go and qualify for the world championships elite or for my age group. **** - (): Uh, so like a rider being 19 to 34 years old, if he chooses to sign up for the elite category, Of course, with an elite license, then he can only qualify for the elite category at the world championships. If he chooses to qualify or to sign up for the age groups, he can only qualify for his age group. Um, and that's what we decided this year to change. **** - (): Um, so that the elite category can also have older riders, uh, in their 30s, 35, 40 years old, like Valverde, like, uh, yeah, many of them will retire from road racing and like, uh, Jan Baklans, Nicky Terpstra, uh, yeah, probably also a lot of Americans who are over 35, but still want to race elite at a high level. **** - (): So, yeah. they didn't get the opportunity to race elite. [00:30:58] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): you'd, you'd may have mentioned this earlier, but just so I understand on race day are the amateur men lining up behind the elite men and starting kind of alongside them. [00:31:10] - ():  Erwin Verveken: at the qualifier events, uh, well, they're different options and we give a lot of freedom to the different organizers to set up or the setup of the start can either be man elite in front, followed by women elite. And then with a small interval, the age groups, uh, or we can have many leads followed by men age groups. **** - (): Let's say until the age of 50 and then the women elite with all with a small interval, but it depends a bit on the size of the field. And yeah, I think next year our biggest event will be over 2000. So then you have to make some. Rules to, to, to make a fair start and a fair reason. Uh, but we still give the opportunity, um, to riders without a license to qualify for the world championships in their age groups. **** - (): So it's only for the elite category that you need a license. If you want to race, uh, in the age groups, uh, you're 42 years old and you still want to do world championships. So you can go to a qualifier, take part, um, and then qualify for the world championships. And it's only. to sign up for the world championships that you need a year license, so not to qualify. [00:32:20] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Super exciting. Let's talk about the 2024 Trek UCI gravel world series calendar. You've expanded now to a total, is it a 26 events [00:32:31] - ():  Erwin Verveken: well there's uh in the 25 Qualifying for the 2024 World Championships and one was in October, uh, past the World Championships for the 2025 World Championships. So, uh, but yeah, we have been expanding with, uh, a lot of extra races. So if I look at the list, one extra in Austria, one extra in Italy. Um, I'm running off the list here now on my computer. **** - (): Uh, there's a new race in Kenya. There's a new race, a second year race in Germany, Switzerland, one in Wales in the UK. Um, and then by the end of the season, also a second new one in Spain. Um, and there will most likely be two. Uh, extra ones being added later, uh, which still are struggling with approvals. Uh, so yeah, there's, uh, there's, it's no secret that there's one candidate in Rwanda where the world championships on the road take place next now in 2025. **** - (): Um, and, and a second one in Switzerland, uh, they will most likely be added, uh, yeah, in the next few weeks. [00:33:48] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): when you, what does it take for an event to become part of the series and are these events typically events that have run in the past and then embrace the UCI series and come to you and say, yeah, I'd like to be part of it or are they events that happened from the ground up? With the sole intention of being a UCI qualifier. [00:34:07] - ():  Erwin Verveken: It's it's a mix. Um, we have existing events will have been run as a competitive event before we have, uh, fun events like, uh, leisure events like non competitive events with been switched to a competitive event. We have big organizers who have run professional road racing or Gran Fondo racing, like the race in Switzerland is run by the same team who has the UCI Gran Fondo for many years. **** - (): Um, yeah, so. New events will have all of a sudden started up, um, the second race in, in, uh, Germany, for instance, has run the motorbike marathon world championships five years ago or six years ago, 2017. Uh, so it's a mix. Yeah. Um, [00:34:59] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): And then, you know, obviously there's presumably an application process for the event to become part of the series. Do the events then need to take on that same kind of, uh, men will race by themselves. Women will race by themselves. The distance will be in it within certain parameters. Is that what the, how they have to adopt to the UCI landscape? [00:35:20] - ():  Erwin Verveken: yeah. Well, but as I told, we're not too difficult in these first years. We don't want to, the big criticism we had, uh, especially from, from, uh, from, from the States, uh, in the beginning is, well, you see, I will make it, uh, too much regulations and things like that. Um, well, we decided not to make, uh, any regulation. **** - (): So the bike is free, of course, no e bike, but, uh, If you want to raise a mountain bike, or a gravel bike, or a road bike, whatever bike you like, the perfect bike that fits best for that course is, is, is, is, is free to use. Uh, distance, well, there's a rule now, I think the minimum distance is 75k and the maximum 200. **** - (): Um, but for the rest, uh, there's no Regulation on tire width, uh, starting procedure is also quite flexible. Uh, we discuss it with every organizer, but, uh, yeah, we are pretty flexible in, in allowing things. [00:36:23] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Gotcha. What are the things that, that struck me when I looked at the 2024 calendar? Was we still only have one event here in the United States? Is that intentional? Is it just [00:36:35] - ():  Erwin Verveken: no, no. Because [00:36:36] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): for events? And [00:36:39] - ():  Erwin Verveken: let's say that we would like to have, um, in the, the, the big traditional cycling countries in Europe, two events, like we have now. Two in Belgium, two in Holland, two in Germany, two in Switzerland, two in Italy, two in Spain, uh, only one in France, two in the uk. And then for the big countries like the, the States, Canada or Australia, uh, we can go up to three events. **** - (): And I've been in very good context with, with potential, uh, uh, yeah. Interested organizers who have started the process of, yeah. Um, yeah, uh, having different online meetings with me, but also of course. On their side, getting the approvals, um, and speaking to their sponsors. And we have been very close with one organizer, um, yeah, to finally become the second qualifier. **** - (): And I'm sure that in 2025, we will have at least two, probably even three events. Uh, and also in Canada, I'm in touch with a second Canadian event, uh, which is likely to sign. And which I had expected to sign already for 2024. But yeah, the, uh, it's also the same in, in, uh, in Grand Fonda racing. Um, It's, it's, it's more challenging for me to convince, uh, an American organizer to, to join, uh, the series. **** - (): Um, a part of it is because, well, they, um, there is like, um, let's say, uh, uh, a general criticism in everything which is related to regulations and to federations within the states. That's what I learned from my different contexts. Uh, people don't like to be. To regulate it, although I think we are quite flexible. **** - (): Um, uh, and, uh, another big thing is in Europe, there is, uh, yeah, for organizing and we're speaking about the financial part of the, of, of, of, of organizing an event is in, in, uh, in the States, there's not such a system of, of government funding. So in Europe, but also in Africa, we have three African events to in Australia, uh, people organizers apply for fundings with the city, the region or an entity from the government, which puts in money to promote events of a high level, but also because they generate a lot of tourism. **** - (): If I see that this year, the European Championships, we organized ourselves, uh, uh, on the 1st of October. Well, we had 1, 700 riders coming from, I don't know exactly 30 or 35 different countries, but they all stay in the hotel for a few nights because they want to do a record right a few days before they stay after they go and have dinner, they buy a souvenir, they rent a car. **** - (): So there's a lot of economic return for the region. And that system doesn't really exist in the, in the States, as far as I know, from, from my country. [00:39:45] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. You know, it's true. I've talked about this on a number of occasions with different event organizers and it's, it is super interesting. Like there are some rural regions that are trying to reinvent themselves where you do get some of that interplay with the local city government and great deal of enthusiasm to bring riders in because having them. **** - (): Yeah. A thousand people and their families over a weekend is a great economic boom for those cities. And then in other cases, you have the exact opposite mentality, which is we don't want any more people coming here. We don't need athletes to come into our town. You know, particularly I live in the San Francisco Bay area [00:40:23] - ():  Erwin Verveken: which is really a pity. Um, I think. [00:40:27] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): very much [00:40:27] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Sports, sports in general, especially while I'm living in Belgium, which is probably the cycling country together with Italy and France, we have, uh, every little town has his own club and has at least a competitive rider and this, uh, yeah, uh, you have to drive maximum one hour to do a race on Saturday and Sunday, uh, in every discipline. **** - (): So that's, that's the good thing about, uh, well. living in a traditional cycling country, but also for organizers. Uh, excuse me. Um, so yeah, the, the, the fundings we have are necessary to set up big events and they are live on television. It's part of our culture. They generate, as I told you, a lot of. **** - (): Economic return, but not only economic return, it's also, yeah, promotion for the region if you have like a very nice, um, yeah, uh, area with, with a beautiful nature. It's a good promotion for, for, for the region to, to generate also other type of tourism. The race we now organized on the 1st of October, which will also fit us as a first, no, the next world championships next year in Belgium. **** - (): Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a national park. It's a big forest area. It's being promoted now through these kinds of events and the weeks before, but especially the weeks after. The European Championships we organized there. It was full of people, yeah, uh, hiking, uh, um, riding their bikes. And they also come and then, yeah, uh, it generates tourism and tourism means money for the region. **** - (): And, um, yeah, that's, that's the good thing about, uh, yeah, cycling in, in, in, in Belgium, for instance. [00:42:24] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah, yeah, if I was to sort of read the tea leaves, so to speak about the U. S. gravel cycling scene sentiment around the U. C. I. gravel world championships and the qualifier events, I would say, I. I'm reading a market change this year after the event, we sent some of our best athletes over there, there was good exposure. **** - (): Obviously we wish that the, the women's race was able to be televised, but I understand what happened there, but seeing the scene and seeing the camaraderie of the U S team, I believe has translated to a sort of a general uplifting of the UCI brand within gravel. And this idea that, you know, the racing is different. **** - (): It's, it's, it's different and unique in its own way. And the experience is quite powerful, you know, to go to a world level event where you're representing your country, whether it's at an elite level or at the master's level, it's just super exciting. And it's a feeling that compares differently to what it feels like to be at Unbound or SBT Gravel. **** - (): It's its own unique and special thing that I think more US riders are now aspiring to. [00:43:38] - ():  Erwin Verveken: No, I'm sure. So I'm not this. Well, uh, the biggest travel event worldwide and a long tradition and it's, it's, but it's still, uh, I guess a 90 or 95 percent based American event. Participants, uh, they come from many different countries, but The big majority is still American. If you're at the World Championships, you're, first of all, dressed in your national kit, which is fairly prestigious, it's very, yeah. **** - (): Riders are proud, and especially Americans are proud to wear their national colors. Uh, they ride in a team, they travel towards an event, uh, and then you're next shoulder to shoulder at the start grid, next to a British rider, an Italian, a Slovenian, a Belgian, uh, which creates a special atmosphere. Um, and yeah, the first year there was a lot of criticism on the course. **** - (): Um, I agree for a part of it. I was, I wasn't the best course. I was not also, also not a hundred percent convinced on the course this year. It was pure promotion for gravel. Uh, and, and The fact that, uh, yeah, also your best gravel rider, Keegan Swanson, was there. Yeah, it was also a good promotion for our world championships. **** - (): But, yeah, in the end, I'm sure that let him develop a bit longer in an international gravel scene. He'll probably, yeah, he can win the world championships for sure. And then he would be a great ambassador, uh, wearing the, the, the, the, the, the, the rainbow jersey also in the state. So, and our biggest goal is to still, because we have been in talks with USA Cycling to bring the, the World Championships, uh, to, to the States. **** - (): And there were some very interested, uh, organizers, uh, we were very close to a deal, uh, in the first year, but unfortunately, well, then, uh, they were a bit hesitating and, and decided to skip. For the next few years, but then given the very big explosion of gravel racing in Europe, all of a sudden, yeah, it was awarded until now, uh, 20, 28. **** - (): Uh, so it's, uh, uh, yeah, they missed an opportunity. Um, Yeah. [00:45:51] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Have you, so we know that 2024 will be in Belgium. Have you announced where the roadmap goes in the subsequent years? [00:45:59] - ():  Erwin Verveken: 2025 is France, Nice. So the South of France, uh, 2026 is, is, uh, the seven event in Western Australia. Uh, which is now already part of the, of the, of the UCR gravel. We'll see is 2027 is again, the combined world championships of the UCR, which now took place in Glasgow this past August, and they will then also have gravel. **** - (): Which is again in France, so the Haut Savoie region, which is the Alps. It's, uh, if you see the mountain stages of the Tour de France, so that area, there will be a lot of climbing. Um, that's 2027, and then 2028 is Alula in Saudi Arabia. Uh, which is a big sports city, and they have a big and huge budget, uh, to promote cycling, and especially gravel is one of their key. **** - (): So, um, and then 2029, I know there's a lot of interest. Um, um, and, uh, yeah, hopefully one day I'm sure that if we have a very good candidate in the States, uh, the UCI would be very happy to, to, to have the world championships awarded to, to the States, uh, uh, because, well, in the end, the history of gravel racing is, is, is in, in the U S Midwestern. [00:47:18] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Erwin, thank you so much for the time. I appreciate learning more about UCI's approach and everything you're doing to promote the sport. Very much appreciate it. [00:47:28] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Well, it's a pleasure. It's, uh, also it was nice talking to an American audience. Uh, uh, so, uh, yeah, happy to, to explain what we are doing and what our plans are for the future years. [00:47:42] - ():  Craig Dalton (host): Amazing. Thanks again. [00:47:44] - ():  Erwin Verveken: Thank you.    

Al and Micah talk about Harvest Moon: The Winds of Anthos. Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:58: What Have We Been Up To 00:32:53: News 01:12:15: Harvest Moon: The Winds Of Anthos 01:50:34: Outro Links Disney Dreamlight Valley Upcoming Releases Disney Dreamlight Valley Apple Arcade Edition Roots of Pacha 1.1 Update and Console Release Ooblets 1.4 Update Everdream Valley 1.6 Update Slime Rancher 2 Update Echoes of the Plum Grove Kickstarter Snacko Early Access My Time At Portia Optimisation Concerned Ape Cool Fruit Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello farmers and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. (0:00:35) Al: My name is Al and we’re here today to talk about Cottagecore games. (0:00:37) Micah: And I’m Micah! (0:00:44) Al: And you totally didn’t forget and suddenly remember that you had to say your own name there, did you? (0:00:49) Micah: I just, I never know when to like, you know, it’s, I’ve got the brain of a five year old. (0:00:56) Micah: So I need someone to say, and now’s the time that you say your name. (0:01:00) Al: Well, the problem is, right, that you’re on like two episodes a year, right? (0:01:01) Micah: Yeah. (0:01:06) Al: It’s not like, you know, the others are on like, you know, once a month or something. (0:01:09) Al: It’s much easier to remember how it goes that way. (0:01:11) Micah: I feel like I’ve gotten better about the outro, (0:01:14) Micah: but yes, you’re totally right. (0:01:17) Micah: It’s not, you know, it comes to me again as we’re doing. (0:01:23) Al: Yeah, that’s the thing I could hear when you said, and I’m like, I could hear, you were like, “Oh yes, no, I need to say it now.” Welcome. Anyway, welcome. It’s been a while. (0:01:28) Micah: You can hear the gears turning You can hear the cogs clanking around in there Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me. It’s always fun to be on Talk about some of my favorite genre my favorite genre of games (0:01:39) Al: Welcome back. It’s good to have you on. I notice how you said ‘favourite genre games, (0:01:49) Al: favourite games because well, we’ll see. (0:01:52) Micah: Not all of them, you know [laughs] (0:01:53) Al: Let’s not conclude on the game yet before we even said what it is. (0:01:59) Al: So, first of all, transcripts for the podcast are available in the show notes and on the website if you need them, although they’re whether you need them or not, but now you know where to go if you need them. (0:02:10) Al: We’re going to talk. (0:02:12) Al: You know what it’s going to be because we got Micah on. (0:02:15) Al: You know it’s going to be either Harvest Moon or Story Seasons. (0:02:17) Al: We’ve got a Harvest Moon, the Winds of Anthos. (0:02:21) Micah: We sure do. (0:02:22) Al: So we’re going to. (0:02:23) Al: We’re going to talk about that just as a preamble to that. (0:02:28) Al: I will not be playing the game during the episode because I’ve already sold it so that probably explains my feelings in summary, but we’ll get to that when we get to it. (0:02:38) Al: But, yeah, no, I. (0:02:39) Micah: Well I’ve got a digital so it’s not even an option for me, so… (0:02:41) Al: I know better than to buy a Harvest Moon game digitally. (0:02:45) Al: Come on. (0:02:46) Micah: I actually told you about this, but I’ll save it for when we get there, I guess. (0:02:47) Al: Yeah, yeah, we’ll go. (0:02:50) Al: We can leave that for the yeah, yeah, people can hear. (0:02:53) Al: The fun story. (0:02:54) Al: We’ve got a bunch of news, a bunch of exciting news to talk about. (0:02:58) Al: But first of all, Makar, what have you been up to? (0:03:01) Micah: Uh, I just recently got back from Japan and My partner and I went for about two Three weeks something like that something we’ve been planning since originally planned on going in spring of 2020 World event Happened and I don’t know. I just everything feels weird after (0:03:19) Al: Classic. (0:03:21) Al: Yeah, what happened in spring 2020? Nothing. Nothing happened. That’s the point. (0:03:30) Al: I know. (0:03:31) Micah: 2020 and I don’t know what it was. (0:03:33) Micah: I Yes, it was a great time. It was something that we’ve been looking forward to it for a long time. I put a lot of time and effort into the planning the itinerary and Making sure that we had a full schedule, but also a flexible schedule, you know, I for a bit there It was getting to the point where I like I’ve got you know (0:03:53) Al: Don’t do the minute. (0:04:01) Micah: some levels of ADHD and OCD that I have been formally diagnosed with that manifest itself in things like that where I’ll just lock in on an Idea and then I’ll just run with it and then I’ll just keep going and then I’ll get deeper and deeper And it was pretty much to the point where I was like Google mapping If I took the train from this location at this time of day in Japan (0:04:29) Micah: what train would I take and… (0:04:31) Micah: where would I transfer and how much would it cost and then like figuring out travel costs down to like you know the individual train ride and things like that. (0:04:42) Al: Oh, you’ve got to know the best way to pay for it, right? Do I get a travel card or am I buying individual tickets? You know, that’s important. (0:04:43) Micah: That originally was the plan but then you know it just got to the point where it was it was like things that you especially knowing now you would not be able to like (0:05:02) Micah: plan for really given like you know how travel works like mass transit travel works there but which beautiful by the way beautiful transit system could not say anything bad about that transit system and then we came back here where it’s just cars. (0:05:22) Al: Well, you presumably weren’t traveling in peak hour, peak time, you’re commuting hour. (0:05:28) Micah: Uh, there was a lot of it where we were, which was a little, you know, that was a little challenging being absolutely crammed into trains, like, just packed with people. (0:05:29) Al: Oh, OK. (0:05:46) Micah: It was an experience that I’m not used to, but yeah, it was an experience. (0:05:52) Micah: I did a lot of looking at retro games and stuff like that. (0:05:55) Micah: We did a lot of, you know, we did some– (0:05:59) Micah: theme cafes and things like that, Dragon Quest Cafe. (0:06:02) Micah: Went to the Dragon Quest Island. (0:06:04) Micah: Dragon Quest Island was a bucket list item. (0:06:06) Micah: And I was very excited to do that. (0:06:06) Al: Of course. (0:06:10) Micah: Very awesome, just like a real life JRPG. (0:06:15) Micah: You just like walk around a town and get quests and then go fight stuff and then come back. (0:06:21) Micah: And it’s a lot of, you know, like, (0:06:24) Micah: what do you call it, fetch quests, (0:06:25) Micah: but it still was a very cool experience. (0:06:28) Micah: And while I was there, they were promoting and releasing Mario Wonder. (0:06:35) Micah: So I picked that up while I was there because the exchange rate was absolutely in our favor. (0:06:43) Micah: So a brand new Switch game wound up being like $36 or something like that. (0:06:48) Micah: USD once you convert it. (0:06:52) Micah: And I’ve been playing that. (0:06:55) Micah: I picked up the metal gear. (0:06:59) Micah: Collection was there too, because it came out around the same time and I played a little bit of that. (0:07:05) Micah: But mostly it’s been I’ve been playing Super Mario Wonder and trying to get through the Pokemon DLC. (0:07:14) Micah: And I’ve picked up Disney Speedstorm and I’ve been playing a lot of Disney Speedstorm, which is their cart racer. (0:07:19) Al: Is it any good? (0:07:21) Micah: It is actually incredible. (0:07:24) Micah: It is remarkably good. (0:07:28) Micah: There is two mechanics that I think separate it quite a bit from being just like Mario Kart. (0:07:37) Micah: It does feel just like Mario Kart but with Disney characters. (0:07:41) Micah: But one of the mechanics is that you instead of having like just this selection of power, like item block, (0:07:53) Micah: you get the item block and there’s like a selection of items that you can get out of that. (0:07:57) Micah: I (0:07:58) Micah: And everybody gets the same thing. There is one item that is like your ultimate move For whatever your racer is and all the racers have different ultimate moves and Even beyond that there is a basic ultimate move and there is a charged ultimate move where if you charge you hold the button And charge it up then it’ll do something different So as an example, I’ve been playing a lot of Donald Duck and Donald Duck’s (0:08:05) Al: Right. Okay. (0:08:27) Micah: basic move. (0:08:28) Micah: The ultimate move is that he puts a shield around himself, and if that shield gets broken, then he has these energy fists that punch all the other racers around him. (0:08:42) Micah: But if you charge it, then it immediately does the fists, and it also boosts you. (0:08:50) Micah: So there’s different ways that your ultimates can come through. (0:08:55) Micah: The big thing for me I think is that there is (0:08:58) Micah: a combat mechanic to it where you can slam into other cars and push them into an obstacle or whatever and a lot of the power-ups and stuff like that or a lot of the items can be translated directly into combat So it really there’s a there’s a really (0:09:28) Micah: Powerful feeling of getting into a race and immediately shoving everybody around you into the wall as Donald Duck and then just like blasting your way through the finish line. There’s something so Kind of yeah, yeah, it does have it the especially in in the single-player because if there’s not, you know, if there’s (0:09:43) Al: So it’s basically it’s Mario Kart crossed with Barnett. (0:09:56) Micah: There’s opportunity. (0:09:58) Micah: There’s time for that. It slows down a little bit and shows the cart that you hit spinning out or whatever. (0:10:03) Al: Yeah, classic. Yeah, yeah, sure. (0:10:05) Micah: Obviously, you can’t do that in multiplayer, but that definitely makes it feel more like burnout in that way. (0:10:13) Micah: When you’re hitting something and it’s spinning out and you’re watching it in slow motion. (0:10:18) Micah: Yeah. It was good. (0:10:18) Al: Burnout was always my favourite racing game when I was younger, just because of that. (0:10:22) Al: I was never a huge fan of the realistic races, because it just isn’t fun. But Burnout was like, “Yeah, I can drive and smash people into walls.” Amazing. (0:10:26) Micah: Yeah. (0:10:28) Micah: Yeah. (0:10:31) Micah: It’s great and it’s yeah, that’s like the big difference for between it and Mario Kart like there’s obviously there’s combat Kart combat quote-unquote with the items that you get and things like that in Mario Kart, but this is like physical combat. It’s like It’s much more cutthroat it feels it is a really satisfying game and it’s doing the whole you know Like they’re they’re doing seasons and they have a battle pass and you can buy like a premium battle pass that gives you you know more or whatever. (0:11:01) Micah: It is not bad. A lot of it is very cosmetic focused because there’s outfits for racers. There’s different like paint jobs for racers and things like that. They have things like victory poses that you can get. There are some bundles where it’s like you can buy these upgrade packs for like the specific items that you need to upgrade your racers and stuff like that. (0:11:02) Al: So that’s my next question, how bad is that? Because obviously it’s free to play game. (0:11:31) Micah: There’s a lot of content to it. There’s like for the single player portion of it. There’s there’s seasons and every season has like a single player chunk where it’s all of these like kind of it. It’s like chapters and each chapter has, I don’t know, 8 to 10 races in it and the races will unlock it. (0:11:38) Al: Is that something you can get for free if you work hard enough? Or is that? (0:11:41) Al: Right, okay. See, that’s the key for me. (0:11:59) Micah: and the races will unlock. (0:12:01) Micah: You can unlock chests that have the upgrades and stuff like that in it. (0:12:05) Micah: But there’s like, I don’t even… (0:12:09) Micah: 10 chapters or something like that for each season. (0:12:11) Micah: So right now the season is highlighting Aladdin. (0:12:15) Micah: And you can select the battle pass. (0:12:19) Micah: Through the battle pass you can unlock Jasmine. (0:12:22) Micah: And you can unlock Genie as racers. (0:12:26) Micah: And you unlock them really early in the battle pass. (0:12:31) Micah: And you can get them early even without the premium battle pass. (0:12:38) Micah: But then all the way at the end of the battle pass you get special outfits and special car colors and whatever. (0:12:45) Micah: Like paint jobs and stuff like that. (0:12:47) Micah: But the single player portion of the season is all Aladdin based story content. (0:12:55) Micah: Where it’s like races that you have to do with specific conditions. (0:13:02) Micah: And there’s so much content for it. (0:13:04) Micah: There’s like an unbelievable amount of content that’s just like free content. (0:13:09) Micah: So there is a lot of opportunity to get that stuff yourself without paying anything for it. (0:13:17) Micah: It’s good though. It’s a really really good racer. (0:13:18) Al: OK, that’s good. That’s good. (0:13:22) Al: I’ll need to try it because I’ve tried a number of different car racers and most of them, I’ve just not enjoyed the controls. (0:13:31) Al: Like, they’ve just never felt like they’ve worked as well as Mario Kart. (0:13:34) Al: So I’ll need to try this one and see how that goes for me. (0:13:35) Micah: This definitely is the most Mario Kart similar I think Right Yes, I do too (0:13:38) Al: It doesn’t need to be the exact same. (0:13:41) Al: I just use that as an example because like I like the controls in Mario Kart. (0:13:46) Al: it’s very smooth and it’s very controllable. (0:13:48) Al: Every single version of it, whereas like, you know, if you take like crash team racing or sonic racing or whatever, I hate, I just, I know I don’t enjoy how they control. (0:13:56) Micah: Yeah, we’re in the exact same boat. (0:13:59) Al: I always feel like I’m just not in as, as control as, as I am with Mario Kart. (0:14:03) Micah: Yeah, given that and how similar I think our feelings are on that, I feel like you’ll probably like it because I’m very much the same way. (0:14:13) Micah: I did not, was not a fan of Crash Team Racing and Sonic Racing and how that felt. (0:14:19) Micah: It does. (0:14:20) Micah: Um, I think probably just because of history with it, I’m most attuned to- (0:14:26) Micah: to like Mario Kart controls and things like that. (0:14:31) Micah: And it feels the most like that. (0:14:32) Micah: Like, you know, there’s- you go off a jump and you can hit a button to do like a flare or whatever to like give yourself a little bit of boost. (0:14:39) Micah: And the drift feels like Mario Kart and there’s like drift chaining and stuff that- (0:14:45) Al: I have actually downloaded it on my switch. I’ve just not opened it yet because it’s like free to play game that I know I’m going to play at some point. Of course, I’m going to download it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It came out of early access a few months ago, I think. So yeah. Oh, interesting. (0:14:48) Micah: Yeah, and it’s also, I think it’s on every platform now, but you can chain your account. (0:15:00) Micah: It’s like super easy to link your account between platforms, so that’s also really nice. (0:15:05) Micah: Oh, you know what it is. (0:15:07) Micah: It’s coming to mobile soon is what I remember. (0:15:10) Micah: So if, yeah, we’ll see how the game changes at that point, but you know. (0:15:16) Al: - Yeah, I don’t, having said I liked all the Mario Kart, (0:15:18) Al: I don’t like live, I don’t like Mario Kart live, (0:15:19) Micah: No, I don’t. (0:15:20) Al: I don’t like how, I just, no. (0:15:21) Micah: Not a fan. (0:15:22) Al: I want something like that, I want the new, (0:15:27) Al: I like everything that it does in terms of the live service stuff, (0:15:31) Al: I just want that on a switch with controls rather than the, no, I don’t like the, anyway, whatever. (0:15:36) Micah: Yeah. (0:15:37) Micah: Yep, no, I feel you. (0:15:42) Al: So I too have been playing Mario Wonder. (0:15:45) Al: No finished it, I think in the last episode I said I was nearly done and I just had one level to go. (0:15:51) Al: I have no finished that one. (0:15:54) Micah: Dang, I have not finished it. (0:15:56) Micah: I’m very excited to see that. (0:15:57) Micah: What are your thoughts now that you’ve finished it? (0:15:58) Al: I really love it. I think it is one of the best 2D Mario games they’ve done. I think it’s really good. I think what I think is amazing is see if we had this game and one in every four levels had a wonderful hour. We’d think that was a really cool idea and it was really interesting that they did that. The fact that they’ve done this in every single level and every single level has a different thing that the wonderful (0:15:59) Micah: It’s so good, isn’t it? (0:16:28) Al: flower does. Every single level is incredible. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I also feel like unlike most Marios, I feel like I could figure out most of the secrets myself. So there’s a few that I just didn’t quite get and I had to Google. But with most other (0:16:29) Micah: it’s insane. Yeah, it’s insane. And there’s like multiple methods through the levels to like, it’s just it’s crazy how much detail and love (0:16:58) Al: Mario’s, I’ve been like, I have absolutely no idea how to deal with this here. I don’t know where to go here. And maybe that’s just me getting better at figuring out their secrets. (0:17:07) Al: That’s a possibility. But I’ve just felt like, yeah, it just, and I feel like when I got to the end of the game, I wasn’t hugely far off 100% because it just felt like everything was really fun to continue doing. I like got close to 100% in each world that I did up to like four, and then five and six, I just was like, I just want to finish this now. So I did what I needed to, but I think, yeah, no, I think it was, and I think there are quite a few levels at the end that are like really difficult. And they’re not like, you know, Mario, Mario maker difficult, right? Like they’re not like insane. You have to have like split second reflexes to ever do this, but especially the very last level, (0:17:53) Al: which you know, when you get to it, that one in particular was so frustrating. (0:17:55) Micah: I had… (0:17:58) Al: I, I’m not joking when I say I, it took me 60 lives to get through that game, that level. (0:18:05) Micah: Holy smokes, I had actually read someone had had said that they felt like it was the closest to Mario. (0:18:16) Micah: An official Mario game has come to feeling like a Kaizo Mario game, which if you don’t know, Kaizo Mario games you like, they call them like Iron Man Mario games. (0:18:28) Micah: Like insanely impossible, like super, you know, reflex. (0:18:35) Micah: Heavy like you have to jump with a shell at the right time and then kick off of that shell at the right time so that it hits a wall at the right time and then jump off of that shell after the fact, you know, all of these like really precise movements and things like that. (0:18:51) Micah: And they said, well, it’s not a Kaizo Mario level. (0:18:51) Al: Yeah, there definitely are a few levels like that. I understand there are people who are like, “I want more like that,” and that’s fair. But yeah, I certainly think there are some levels in this that are some of the hardest that have ever been in a Mario game. So yeah, (0:18:54) Micah: It is the closest that a core Mario game has come to feeling like a Kaizo game. (0:19:09) Micah: Yeah. It’s really fun. (0:19:12) Al: I really, really enjoyed it. I think it was fantastic. Yeah. (0:19:15) Micah: It’s such a I was and I was really kind of like on the fence about the the the theme or like the aesthetic of it being like, you know, I don’t know, LSD induced, whatever is happening, whatever. Yeah, whatever hallucinogenic effects these. (0:19:30) Al: Yeah, I was thinking more magic mushrooms, but yeah, sure. (0:19:39) Micah: Wonder flowers have on these wonder seeds have on everybody. (0:19:43) Micah: I was a little bit on the fence of like, OK, I don’t know if I’m, you know, elephant Mario and whatever. And it just felt a little too wacky, maybe to when I first saw the like trailer for it and stuff. Obviously, it still looked good. (0:19:59) Micah: I was still interested in it. I’m happy that didn’t like deter me from it at all because it’s it’s awesome. It’s such a good Mario game. (0:20:07) Micah: and that like aesthetic is… (0:20:09) Micah: It’s really well done throughout the game without feeling overly wacky or whatever. (0:20:13) Al: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s been a really good year for games because I also have been playing Spider-Man 2 and I’ve been loving that. It’s a great game. I feel like I think I’m like 80% through the main story, but there’s still quite a lot of side stuff that I need to do. But I’m at the point where I’m like, I just need to like finish, I need to main line the story, finish that before I tidy everything up. (0:20:17) Micah: They’re killing it with Mario lately, huh? (0:20:28) Micah: Yeah? (0:20:46) Micah: I don’t know too much about what’s going on in Spider-Man 2, but from what I understand it’s both Peter Parker and Miles Morales and… (0:20:56) Micah: Okay. (0:20:56) Micah: Are you like swapping between them? (0:20:56) Al: So the first game was… Yeah, so the first game was Peter Parker and then there was a Miles Morales game where Peter goes on holiday, and that’s the explanation as to why you’re just Miles. Okay, fine, sure, whatever. So what you can do is there are specific things that need to be done by one Spider-Man. So obviously, the storyline with Miles’ mum has to happen with Miles, right? (0:20:59) Micah: Right. And then there was a Miles Morales game, right? (0:21:04) Micah: Okay. (0:21:08) Micah: Got it. (0:21:10) Micah: He needs a break. (0:21:24) Al: It doesn’t make any sense for it to be Peter. (0:21:25) Micah: Right. Right. (0:21:26) Al: And the stuff with Mary Jane has to be done with Peter, it can’t be done with Miles. (0:21:30) Al: And there’s like a few kind of like side stuff, like there’s one of the like collectibles thing is to do with Peter’s job, and one of them is to do with Miles’ uncle, (0:21:43) Al: and so those obviously need to be done with that Spider-Man. But other than that… (0:21:46) Micah: can’t be with Peter’s uncle but is that am I allowed to say that I don’t know I’m allowed to say (0:21:55) Al: Wow. (0:21:56) Al: Oh, my, but other than that, you can just freely switch between the Spider-Man. (0:22:06) Al: So you’re just floating around and you can just pause the game and press square and switch to the other one and they’ll pop in and you can do whatever you want. (0:22:14) Al: So I have generally just been going through the game because obviously the story switches you between them for different parts of the story. (0:22:21) Al: So I’ve just kind of continued with whatever (0:22:23) Al: and they’ve dropped me in on until they then switch me. (0:22:26) Al: Just because I felt like that’s the way that kind of felt most natural to me. (0:22:30) Al: But it’s been quite enjoyable doing that. (0:22:34) Al: Obviously, they have different powers. (0:22:36) Al: They’re not exactly the same. (0:22:38) Al: And they do some things that I’m not going to spoil to kind of level Peter up. (0:22:43) Al: Because obviously, Miles has his electricity powers, (0:22:47) Al: which makes him objectively better than Peter. (0:22:51) Micah: Oh, I didn’t even know that was a thing. (0:22:52) Al: Oh, do you not know this? (0:22:53) Al: this. Yeah, so miles can go invisible, first of all. (0:22:54) Micah: What? (0:22:56) Al: You don’t know this! Yeah, oh my word. There’s so much Spider-Man lore you don’t know. So miles can go invisible, but he also has electricity powers, so he can zap people and stuff like that, which Peter obviously doesn’t have. But those powers, one from a different reality. (0:22:58) Micah: I didn’t know this. (0:22:59) Micah: No. (0:23:10) Micah: What kind of spider did that come from? Sorry, never. (0:23:13) Micah: Oh, okay, well. (0:23:16) Al: No, I’m not even joking. That’s serious. Anyway, not important. How far deep do we need to (0:23:19) Micah: Yeah, I can see that. (0:23:26) Al: go with this? But that makes him objectively better to play as than Peter Parker. So they have had to do something to level up Peter Parker. And I’m not gonna say what that is, (0:23:39) Al: but they do it, and it feels great. Like, you don’t feel like you need to be miles. (0:23:44) Al: It doesn’t feel like he’s automatically better than miles. I think they’ve balanced it really well. So you feel like you can be either of them. And it will be interesting to see whether (0:23:57) Al: those powers continue on to the next game. I’ll be interested to see what they do then, (0:24:02) Al: but it’s been good fun. (0:24:02) Micah: I maybe this is what I thought I don’t know how I would know this is a spoiler but I thought I had seen me and maybe I’m like crossing the wires between other something else Spider-Man but this does Peter is like the was it the symbiote or whatever not in the that yeah like Venom’s like doesn’t just does Peter get because there’s like a symbiote suit for (0:24:23) Al: Venom. (0:24:25) Al: Venom is in this game. (0:24:32) Micah: isn’t there like in in Spider-Man lore I don’t know I don’t know is it I thought I like I thought this was in the trailer but also I don’t know for sure okay because that’s a thing that’s existed in Spider-Man lore for like a while right is that at some point Spider-Man has like a symbiote like suit right I don’t know okay all right we can cut all this out (0:24:34) Al: All right, so we’re just fully smiling this, then, are we? (0:24:42) Al: I mean, well, Venom is in the trailer, sure, (0:24:46) Al: but it doesn’t really talk about what that means. (0:24:56) Al: Yeah, I don’t want to say too much. I don’t want to say too much. I mean, people who know a lot of Spider-Man lore are going to be able to predict a lot of this story, right? Like, (0:25:03) Micah: I don’t know how to spoil anything but okay sure yeah (0:25:08) Al: it’s not fresh and new, but it’s still fun to do. And, you know, I think a lot of people don’t aren’t that deep into Spider-Man lore. What I will say is one really annoying thing. (0:25:19) Al: So yeah, Venom’s in this game. Do you know what Miles’ electricity powers are called? (0:25:22) Micah: electricity powers? (0:25:23) Al: No, they’re called venom. (0:25:24) Micah: Wait, what? (0:25:27) Al: He calls them venom! His venom powers! I don’t know why! (0:25:28) Micah: I’m confused. Wait, why does he… (0:25:31) Micah: Oh, that’s weird. (0:25:34) Al: So there’s two venoms in this game and it’s driving me insane. (0:25:36) Micah: What a weird decision. (0:25:39) Al: Also, my other annoyance with this game, right? I love the game, but my other annoyance is they just refer to each other as Spider-Man. (0:25:50) Al: So you’ll be like “Oh, hey Spider-Man, oh hey Spider-Man!” So they’re constantly just referring to Spider-Man when they’re talking. (0:25:56) Al: It’s worse because the subtitles will say “Spider-Man is saying this” so it’ll say “Spider-Man colon” and then what he says. (0:26:00) Micah: No way! (0:26:02) Al: But you’re like “Which one?” But they try and deal with that by having a little face, right? So there’s two little faces, right? (0:26:02) Micah: Oh, I see. (0:26:08) Al: But it’s of the mask. But the problem is, do you know what the masks are? The masks are red and black or black and red. (0:26:09) Micah: They’re both wearing a mask. (0:26:12) Micah: Okay. (0:26:15) Al: And these are teeny tiny little images on a 40-inch screen 12 feet away from me. (0:26:23) Al: I can’t figure out which one it is, it’s dre- (0:26:25) Micah: Yeah, this seems like an oversight a little bit (0:26:26) Al: It’s real bad! And I’ve turned the subtitle size up to max, because I like reading subtitles. (0:26:37) Al: It helps me understand what’s- But the picture’s still tiny! Why is the picture so tiny? And also, (0:26:40) Micah: ID too, same boat (0:26:44) Al: you change their suits, right? Nobody stays in the default suits in this game. That’s part of the fun of it, is changing your suits. So I needed to- Part of my problem is that I always- I have a very (0:26:56) Al: specific aesthetic of Spider-Man suit that I like, but I can’t put them both in the same aesthetic, (0:27:01) Al: because then I can’t figure out whose is who. So I’ve had to do like- So I have to decide that this is the colour for Peter, and this is the colour for Miles, and I’ve had to kind of stick with that, (0:27:11) Al: so that I can tell them apart on screen. I know, I know. But it’s- But it is really fun. It’s a really fun game. It has done the same thing, in my opinion, for Spider-Man. (0:27:13) Micah: What a nightmare. (0:27:26) Al: Spider-Man games, that Tears of the Kingdom did for Zelda games. I think it’s done- It has taken a game and done what you think is basically the same thing, but then layered so much more on top of it that it feels so good. (0:27:41) Micah: Yeah, huh It looks really good. I didn’t it seems like the reaction to it has been very good. I just saw today I saw it tick-tock that was somebody saying like I Don’t care what you say Miles and Morales and Peter Parker are my friends. They’re real people. They’re my friends They’re we’re we’re best friends. They’re the boys like And I think you know just saying that like the characters are done so well that it feels like they’re you know (0:28:11) Micah: um but I Not knowing really much about spider-man There is a part of me that wants to play it purely out of like seeing how much Like open world traversal there is for like I’m a big sucker for when there’s like true to life in-game recreations of like real locations So like being able to traverse New York City, I feel like would be (0:28:42) Micah: very fun, even if it’s just I Have not no I Uh Not no, not really that I can remember I mean I do I’ve seen people play them and I’ve seen like, you know, there’s a Again on tick-tock. There’s like occasionally I’ll see a tick-tock live of somebody. That’s just like No camera or anything. It’s just their their gameplay of them Swinging as spider-man and I’m assuming the like previous one but it. (0:28:43) Al: So if you don’t play any Spider-Man game, even like the early 2000s ones or anything, (0:28:50) Al: the Tobey Maguire tie-in film ones, no, that’s fine. (0:29:06) Al: Yeah. It’s absolutely incredible. It’s absolutely incredible, Michael. There’s no traversal in another game that is as fun as this, and they added extra stuff on to what the games had before to make it even more… You have a wingsuit now, so you can fly. So you can swing and swing and go high, and then you fly in your wingsuit, and you can… You’re gliding, right? You’re not flying, (0:29:36) Al: ages. And there’s slip streams around the city, so you can go so fast through the city if you catch the right slip stream, and they’ve added in a bunch of stuff. You can surf on the water for a short period of time and then jump back up and stuff like that. There’s so much in… It’s so fun. (0:30:00) Al: It’s just incredible. And there’s also stuff like you might have seen… Have you you haven’t seen any of the NPC conversations. (0:30:06) Al: There’s like full-on full-on 10, 15, 20 minute conversations that these NPCs have. (0:30:07) Micah: I don’t think so. I don’t think I’ve seen any of the NPC stuff or like (0:30:17) Micah: Oh, like, not like cutscenes, it’s just like listening to people. (0:30:18) Al: If you like just drop down onto the street, no, if you just drop down and there’s two people talking, they will have a full-on conversation for 15 minutes about the most random stuff. (0:30:29) Al: But it makes sense. (0:30:30) Al: It’s incredible. (0:30:31) Al: Like there was there’s ones that I’ve seen which is like, you know, people who were on a work site and they were complaining about their boss. (0:30:36) Al: And then there were people who were talking about like their children and then there’s just so many and it’s wild. (0:30:43) Al: I cannot imagine like it just feels like they’ve gotten in some voice actors and said riff on this and they’ve just spent 20 minutes talking about it. (0:30:50) Micah: Yeah, I can imagine that would be the best way to do that too is to just have people like That’s awesome Who’s the is it rocksteady as a developer Oh insomniac, okay (0:30:51) Al: But it’s incredible. (0:30:52) Al: Yeah. (0:30:54) Al: But they’re everywhere. (0:30:57) Al: I don’t understand how they’ve done it. (0:30:59) Al: It’s like so much. (0:31:01) Al: It’s not. (0:31:02) Al: It’s Insomniac. (0:31:06) Al: It’s incredible. (0:31:07) Al: And it’s also they’re doing a Wolverine game as well coming out in a we don’t know when but presumably like five years or something like that. (0:31:10) Micah: Oh, okay, cool. (0:31:12) Micah: Yeah. (0:31:13) Al: Who knows. (0:31:14) Al: It’s made me really excited for that because like I’m just yeah. (0:31:17) Al: Well I say so yeah having so much fun. (0:31:19) Al: And we probably don’t need to get into a huge conversation about this but also been playing the watermelon games. (0:31:26) Al: It’s a week out game or whatever they call it. (0:31:26) Micah: Yep. I think everybody at least has touched it at some point or see. (0:31:28) Al: It’s been good. (0:31:32) Al: If you haven’t played it. (0:31:33) Al: If you haven’t seen it go play it. (0:31:34) Al: Go watch a video of it. (0:31:36) Micah: And it’s like, what’d you say? $2? (0:31:37) Al: Yeah. (0:31:38) Al: Something like that. (0:31:38) Micah: I bought it when I was on the Japanese eShop. (0:31:39) Al: A thousand yen or something. (0:31:40) Micah: So it was like, I don’t know. (0:31:43) Micah: Yeah, it was like 200 yen or something. (0:31:43) Al: I do even know is what that means. (0:31:45) Al: Yep. (0:31:46) Micah: Yeah. (0:31:47) Micah: It was– yeah, it’s very cheap. (0:31:48) Al: Yeah it’s very cheap and loads of fun. (0:31:50) Micah: It’s like $2 on the– (0:31:54) Al: I like I play a couple of times a day. (0:31:56) Al: It’s good fun. (0:31:58) Al: Oh this is. (0:31:58) Micah: very good. Yeah, we there’s not a whole lot to say about watermelon. You drop you drop fruits into a bucket and they combine if you match them and just don’t overflow the bucket and that’s it. Yeah. It reminds me of there’s some like old arcade game I can’t remember what it was where you’d like shoot balls at each other and if you hit the same color balls then they would combine into like. (0:32:01) Al: We talk a little. (0:32:07) Al: Yeah. (0:32:10) Al: It’s like physics version of Candy Crush or whatever. (0:32:15) Al: Or marriage was the marriage marriage games. (0:32:27) Al: Yeah, I think there’s a few, yeah, there’s a few different games that have done this similar sort of thing. (0:32:28) Micah: a different color and it was like that same. (0:32:31) Micah: Yeah. (0:32:34) Al: This just does it really nicely and the physics aspect of it changes the game entirely because like you drop one and it bounces off stuff and you don’t know for certain where it’s going to go. (0:32:45) Al: So it adds a little bit of, you know, just randomness to that as well, which is fun. (0:32:49) Al: Oh my God, this isn’t going to be a short episode, is it? (0:32:51) Micah: No, I guess not. (0:32:52) Al: We’re going to talk about some news after half an hour. (0:32:56) Al: Um (0:32:57) Al: So, first of all we get Disney Dreamlight Valley. Um, so before we get into the brand new news about this, I just need to talk to you Micah. So, had you seen that the game’s no longer going to be free to play? (0:33:08) Micah: I did. You are actually not the only person to have reached out to me after the news dropped to ask me how I felt about it. Well, I mean, I feel like, you know, if I had to pay for it, (0:33:09) Al: How do you feel? (0:33:25) Micah: then everybody else should. I’m just kidding. It’s kind of a weird move to like start something and say like it’s free to play because usually it’s the other it’s the other way around right like something is paid for it’s like a paid experience and then eventually when it’s not performing the way that they want it to anymore then they move it to free to play like that’s usually the way it goes not the other way around where it starts free to play and they’re like actually you know what we’re gonna charge money for this kind of a weird thing but (0:33:30) Al: Justice! (0:33:30) Al: Or it’s going to be free to play, yeah. (0:33:55) Al: Yeah. Well, it’s also a bit weird because it never was and isn’t going to be now free to play. The weird thing is it’s not gone free to play too paid. It’s gone from paid but we’ll be free to play to actually, no, we’re not going to be free to play. (0:34:13) Micah: Yeah, yes, like free to play, but you have to pay for, like, (0:34:17) Micah: stuff to get access to it anyways, like. (0:34:22) Al: It’s wild, it’s weird, it’s weird, but anyway. (0:34:22) Micah: Yeah, it is a weird thing. (0:34:25) Micah: I don’t I don’t really know how I feel. (0:34:30) Micah: Other than that, like it’s it seems like a weird choice for them. (0:34:34) Micah: I now my concern is, are they going to charge me (0:34:34) Al: I mean you must be less frustrated about buying it now. So they’re not. So I guess what I should say, just a quick summary for people who haven’t listened. So the game is going to come out of Early Access on the 5th of December. There will be a new update at that point. We got more details about that. (0:34:42) Micah: again for the actual (0:34:43) Micah: game since everything that I bought was like basically cosmetic stuff and currency will there be an actual okay, all right good (0:35:04) Al: last week, so I’ll detail. We’ll go over that in a minute. But your early access will continue on. And in fact, you will get extra stuff because you were early access. So you will you get like there’s a few extra cosmetics, including you get capybara. So, you know, (0:35:16) Micah: Oh. Okay. (0:35:24) Micah: Oh Now I’m not upset at all I was a little bit upset but now I’m not Yeah I’m not like opposed to that, but I’m curious to see the I know we have a roadmap that we’re gonna look at But I’m curious to see how frequent paid is gonna come into play because that can kind of (0:35:27) Al: here we go. But, but, but. (0:35:34) Al: they are doing paid DLCs, which will (0:35:46) Al: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So a couple small things first. So first of all, the soundtrack for Disney Dreaming Valley is out. You can go get, go stream it or buy it now. So that’s, that’s a thing. I feel like it’s a pretty standard thing for games now. Except Pokemon games. (0:36:03) Micah: That’s also interesting thing, because I don’t know. (0:36:07) Micah: That’s not like, you know. (0:36:10) Micah: Yeah, I suppose so. (0:36:12) Micah: I feel like the standard thing is like, they’re available, (0:36:16) Micah: or like you get the soundtrack with the game or something and not, you know, like, the soundtrack’s out and you can buy it if you want. (0:36:23) Micah: I don’t know, maybe that’s. (0:36:25) Micah: And I don’t know that there was anything really like distinct about the Dreamlight Valley soundtrack that had me like, (0:36:30) Al: No, no, it’s no, it’s no Stardew Valley soundtrack. (0:36:31) Micah: Oh, I got to get this. (0:36:33) Micah: But I don’t know, yeah, that on the other hand outpaid over and over for that. (0:36:36) Al: So the 5th of December update, the 1.0 update, if you will, has been detailed a little bit. (0:36:48) Al: So Jack Skellington will be coming. (0:36:49) Al: Weird that this is coming. (0:36:51) Al: I mean, I guess maybe it makes sense it’s coming between Halloween and Christmas, but I feel like why isn’t this out just before Halloween? (0:36:57) Al: I don’t know. (0:36:58) Micah: You know, I just had this conversation about Nightmare Before Christmas with someone that I work with who said that Nightmare Before Christmas is a Christmas movie and not a Halloween movie and I argued that it’s both. (0:37:12) Al: It’s both. It’s, of course, it’s both, right? (0:37:14) Micah: But then there were other people that agreed with them that said, yeah, it’s more of a Christmas movie than it is a Halloween movie, which like, it’s actually both. (0:37:15) Al: And it… (0:37:16) Al: No. (0:37:18) Al: It’s literally both. (0:37:22) Al: It’s literally both. (0:37:24) Al: This is not a diehard thing, and I’m not going to have that argument, (0:37:27) Al: because my argument about a diehard is, “I don’t care, shut up.” Right? (0:37:31) Al: But, like, this is not… This is literally half Halloween, half Christmas. (0:37:32) Micah: No, this is explicitly bold. (0:37:35) Micah: Yes. (0:37:37) Al: It’s about both holidays. (0:37:40) Al: It just seems like people… (0:37:40) Micah: Thank you, I feel vindicated. (0:37:42) Al: People feel this need to categorise things so that they feel they can watch it at Christmas, right? (0:37:48) Al: And it’s like, you can watch it at Christmas, you can watch it at Halloween. (0:37:53) Al: It’s both. I mean, you can watch it whenever you want, but like, no one’s going to look at it… (0:37:53) Micah: You can watch it whenever you want. Yeah. (0:37:59) Al: I watched it on… I hadn’t watched Nightmare before Christmas, before this year. (0:38:04) Micah: Oh, really? (0:38:05) Micah: Thoughts? (0:38:05) Al: Just hadn’t got around to it, so I watched it a few days before Halloween. Really liked it. (0:38:09) Al: liked it. It was good fun. Good say. I mean, (0:38:12) Al: some of the songs are incredible. It starts out particularly well. Like it’s like comes out of the gate crashing. Like I’m a, it’s really good. Very weird. I enjoyed it. Anyway. (0:38:25) Al: Uh, yeah. So Jax Galton coming to Disney Dreamlight Valley and also multiplayer. So if you really want multiplayer, I’m not going to play multiplayer. Don’t make me play multiplayer. But if you (0:38:36) Micah: I can’t imagine the multiplayer being super smooth based on the gameplay, but I don’t know, maybe. (0:38:45) Al: I feel like it’s going to be basically Animal Crossing multiplayer, like it’s not going to be like Stardew Valley multiplayer or anything like that, it’s going to be visiting someone’s village to see what they’ve done. (0:38:47) Micah: I don’t know. (0:38:49) Micah: Yeah, yeah, that probably. (0:38:54) Micah: Well, because there’s, I mean, they say in the, what’s the wording for that? (0:39:04) Al: enter the valley verse with your friends. Maybe that’s a special place then. (0:39:07) Micah: » See, when I had originally read it, I thought maybe that it was like interacting with Jack Skellington in the Valleyverse with your friends, (0:39:18) Micah: as if you can do whatever that story content is with them, but maybe I just read that (0:39:27) Al: So this update also introduces the highly anticipated multiplayer mode, allowing you and up to three friends to visit each other’s valleys. (0:39:34) Al: Oh, there you go, visit each other’s valleys. (0:39:36) Micah: Okay, yeah. (0:39:36) Al: From showing off your eye for design to checking ScroogeMcDuck’s stock in another v- It’s Animal Crossing. (0:39:38) Micah: Next. (0:39:39) Micah: Yep. (0:39:43) Micah: Okay. (0:39:45) Micah: That I can see a little bit more than like, (0:39:47) Micah: ‘cause when I’d read it, I thought it was, you know, (0:39:50) Micah: you could do story content with your friends, (0:39:52) Micah: and that to me felt like that would be a very not smooth experience. (0:39:56) Al: Yeah, that, yeah. (0:39:57) Micah: But if it’s just like, come check out my valley, (0:39:58) Al: Perhaps more exciting is the fact that the multiplayer mode would continue to evolve over time as new ways to interact with your friends are added in future updates. (0:40:08) Al: Okay, well we’ll deal with them when they come, but yeah, basically the launch version is basically what Animal Crossing does. (0:40:09) Micah: Hmm Yeah when they’re on a When they’re on a content roadmap, then we’ll look at it (0:40:15) Al: Yeah, yeah, yeah, give us the give us the details. (0:40:22) Al: So then we’ve had more information about the paid DLC so (0:40:26) Al: we’ve got a content roadmap with a lot of stuff in this. I’ll link this in the show notes so you can go have a look at it but we have detailed five free updates and three I’m pretty sure three of the same paid DLC updates so this is I think one pack that you pay for and you get these three updates I don’t think these are three separate paid things because it’s all part of one One story, basically. (0:40:50) Micah: Hmm, okay Oh sure (0:40:57) Al: So this paid expansion, which is called a Rift in Time, you visit a place called Eternity Isle, (0:41:05) Al: and you meet Rapunzel, Gaston, and Eve, and go through some adventures with them. And then the spring 2024 says, explore ancient’s landing to uncover more of its secrets and befriend a very lucky villager and you also see (0:41:26) Al: in that picture Gaston, Eve and Rapunzel and then it says some (0:41:29) Micah: Mm-hmm Who do you think the very lucky villagers I? (0:41:34) Micah: Couldn’t figure out from that. I don’t have enough Disney knowledge to based on whatever that door is to maybe look (0:41:41) Al: I don’t know and then summer 2024 it says foil Jafar’s schemes and fix the rift in time so that feels to me like three parts of this one paid day. (0:41:54) Micah: Yeah, that makes complete sense, I think. (0:41:58) Micah: I think that you’re totally right. (0:42:00) Al: Yes, yes, so Jafar being very clearly, he’s the big baddie of this DLC, and that’s interesting. (0:42:00) Micah: And obviously, introduction of Aladdin characters (0:42:13) Al: Interesting that Jafar is the first Aladdin (0:42:15) Micah: And also that it’s not like sticking to one series, like one movie. (0:42:22) Al: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:42:24) Micah: It’s like Rapunzel, Gaston, Eve versus Jafar. (0:42:28) Micah: It’s not like. (0:42:29) Al: And one other character, one other person that we don’t know who yet, like wild. (0:42:30) Micah: And yeah, a mystery character. (0:42:37) Al: Oh, yeah, actually, it does say so in these mysterious lands, you will embark on a new main story involving Jafar and the very fabric of time itself taking place across three acts all included in the expansion purchase. (0:42:49) Al: confirmation that those three updates between. (0:42:52) Al: December and summer will be the one purchase, which is thirty dollars, I think. (0:42:57) Micah: It’s not too bad if it’s like a yearly thing, like a yearly expansion purchase or like even, (0:42:59) Al: It’s not it does seem yeah. (0:43:06) Micah: you know, half a year or whatever, which it seems like that probably they’re doing here December 5th to summer 2024. (0:43:15) Micah: It’s like a six month, six months of content for like 30 bucks. (0:43:20) Micah: I guess that’s not too bad. (0:43:22) Al: It’s not terrible. It’s not terrible. We’ll see how it… And I think on top of that they are then obviously doing these other free updates. So obviously we’ve got the the 1.0 release in December which gives you Jack Skellington and the multiplayer and then late winter. It says 2024. It’s a very confusing saying winter 2024. What it means is January or February, right? (0:43:39) Micah: which yeah of 2024 yet. (0:43:46) Al: Yeah, it was just like don’t word it like that. Like this is just whatever. (0:43:52) Al: That is obviously some monster ink related stuff. We’ve got Mike Wazowski and it says scream with excitement as a new realm door opens. And then we’ve got early spring 2024, (0:44:04) Al: a vibrant new villager moves to the valley. I have no idea who… (0:44:07) Micah: Don’t either I was trying to figure that out, but it there’s like there’s like a daisy duck on the front on the like Mast of that ship and I don’t know what that I don’t know if this is like a again, not sure I have the Disney knowledge to know what that’s from but I’m sure it’s from some specific Mickey Mouse movie or you know (0:44:15) Al: Oh yeah, interesting. (0:44:32) Micah: episode or whatever something I’m sure it’s from something really (0:44:32) Al: They’re getting very vague at this point, realistically, right? Because then we’ve got late spring 2024 and it just says, “You don’t find a realm like this every dynasty.” And you’re like, “Oh, for goodness sake, where are we going with this? My word.” Like, someone will know this because there’s some insane fan who knows everything based on… I don’t I don’t know. (0:44:44) Micah: Which like, (0:44:46) Micah: I feel like that’s Mulan. (0:44:53) Micah: Is that not based on the word dynasty? (0:44:57) Micah: I don’t know. (0:45:02) Micah: I feel like that that’s probably Mulan, (0:45:02) Al: Do the flowers relate to that? Like, there’s flowers coming out the door? (0:45:05) Micah: but they’re just doing like, they’re, (0:45:11) Al: I feel like a Taylor Swift fan right now. And then we’ve got… (0:45:18) Micah: ‘Cause the Mulan is set in the northern Wei Dynasty. (0:45:19) Al: Yeah. (0:45:24) Micah: So I don’t know. I don’t know. (0:45:28) Al: And then we’ve got summer 2024, which that’s the princess and the frog. (0:45:32) Al: Right. That picture is the, I can’t remember her name. (0:45:33) Micah: yes. Uh, shoot. I forgot. Tiana. I think maybe, I don’t know what those are, maybe Benet’s, (0:45:35) Al: I’ve never seen it. (0:45:36) Al: Who’s the princess name from Princess and the Frog? (0:45:39) Al: Ba ba ba ba. Tiana. (0:45:42) Al: Good timing there. (0:45:44) Al: Both Googling at the same time. (0:45:51) Micah: which I like the, um, that like French. (0:45:55) Al: the French pastry thing. I think a lot of French stuff is pastry. (0:45:59) Micah: But it’s also like, it’s like a fritter, but it’s like a (0:46:12) Al: So that’s five updates, five free updates in the same time that we’re getting the three parts of the one paid DLC. (0:46:21) Al: So what I do have one small issue still that with this not free to play thing and and having paid DLC is that they’re still going to have their in game currency that you have to pay for as well, which just like you can buy the game, you can buy the DLC and you can also by around the world. (0:46:42) Al: And it just feels like they’re, you know, double dipping there. (0:46:52) Micah: Yeah, I don’t know. I I guess it my first thought was that it feels similar to like I don’t know like destiny or something where it’s like you have a Like expansion that you pay for and then they do like Event stuff throughout that like season quote-unquote like expansion season or it’s free stuff And you have to like still buy the main game and then the expansions (0:47:22) Micah: So like there is precedent for it It just is a really weird move to go from like it’s gonna be free to play - (0:47:30) Micah: It’s not free to play also We’re gonna charge you for it But also there’s gonna be paid expansions for it - like it’s like doubling down on charging for it like Interesting choice, but Especially interesting considering that I don’t feel like it’s a very like widely talked about game I feel like the fan base is… (0:47:52) Micah: …not massive for Dreamlight Valley. (0:47:53) Al: Yeah, I mean, let’s see, like, a lot of that may well be due to being early access, right? (0:47:54) Micah: So it seems like a weird move to like… (0:48:02) Al: And let’s see what happens over the next couple of months, right? Like, there might be a massive push for it, like, you never know what. (0:48:08) Micah: Yeah, I didn’t realize that Gameloft was the developer for it, they are also the developer for Speedstorm, so they must, I don’t know, maybe Disney is just buying them out or something. (0:48:23) Al: Well yeah, I think they’re still doing a lot of other stuff. But it’s interesting that they kept free to play with Speedstorm, and they’ve not done it with this. Well yeah, but it’s out of early access, and it is free to play. Disney Dreamlight Valley has not been, and

Today I want to tell you about our sponsor for this episode,  Olsen  Dental  Chairs!‍‍Imagine you're a dentist and you spend your whole day around the chair...   Well, Olsen has over  40 years of experience in making those long hours as comfortable as possible for both the dentist  and the patient! ‍If you're a dental professional looking for high quality, cost effective, dental equipment, check out Olson dental chairs!Click this link and mention this episode for a limited time FREE installation with your purchase!‍‍Guest: Damien BonnerBusiness Name: CAD-RayCheck out Damien's Media:Website: www.cad-ray.com Cloud-based Dentist CAD Software: https://www.clinux.pro/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cadraydentalDamien's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mayorofkp/Email: damien@cad-ray.com‍Other Mentions and Links:PattersonCERECAlign TechnologyMedit Scanner3Shape TRIOSSpear EducationZoomTeamViewer‍Host: Michael Arias‍Website: The Dental Marketer Join my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍‍My Key Takeaways:Be careful with tech companies that sell products without healthy support. At CAD-Ray, they walk through it with you step by step, even offering assistance in the clinical realm.Patients want to see your cool new tech. Be sure to proudly display it in the office and give patients a chance to share on their social platforms!If you make the patient part of the process with your technology, they will love to share with their friends.Change is good, but too much change at once in your office can be tough on your team.If the team isn't 100% on board with the tech changes, the switch will go poorly. Be sure to show them the value of your new tech!‍Please don't forget to share with us on Instagram when you are listening to the podcast AND if you are really wanting to show us love, then please leave a 5 star review on iTunes! [Click here to leave a review on iTunes]‍p.s. Some links are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a commission. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Please understand that we have experience with these products/ company, and I recommend them because they are helpful and useful, not because of the small commissions we make if you decide to buy something. Please do not spend any money unless you feel you need them or that they will help you with your goals.‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)Michael: All right. It's time to talk with our featured guest, Damien Bonner. Damien, how's it going? Damien: Good. Good. How are you? Michael: Doing pretty good, man. If you don't mind me asking, where are you Damien: located right now? well Actually right this second, I'm in New York, I'm a longtime native of New York, but moved to Florida market about 18 months ago, just up here visiting some family this week.Michael: Oh, okay. Moved to Florida just for funsies or like it was. Damien: I don't know if I want to get into all that too much politics, too much taxes, too much things in New York that uh, after 43 years of living here, I've had enough and uh, took the family and moved to what we thought was gonna be greener pastures.And, so far has been everything we thought it would be especially with the, uh, no state income tax on my, uh, salary. So very important for us. Nice, Michael: man. Awesome. So then, Damien, talk to us a little bit about your area of expertise. What Damien: specifically do you do? so I'm a believer in in your why and what your why is, Not so much what I do, it's why I do what I do. So my goal is to help every dentist become digital so that they can offer a higher level of, Thank you. Patient care and patient satisfaction for their patients. So what does that mean that I actually do? I sell digital technology in the dental space.I've been doing so since 2008. What Michael: type of digital technology do Damien: you sell? In 2008, I started with Patterson Dental as a CEREC specialist, so in office manufacturing, CAD CAM systems digital technology back in the day. Sarah was one of the only players, if not the only player in the marketplace.When I first started today that's obviously grown to many other technologies that offer digital scanning. Intraorally 3D comb beam technology practice management software, CAD software in office manufacturing. And now the big thing is that 3D printing. I went from being a specific CEREC specialist to now selling all the products I just mentioned.Yeah. Michael: Man, that's really good. So then how'd you get into this? Damien: by accident I was in the mortgage industry back in the early 2000. So if you've ever seen the movie the big uh, now I can't remember the name was the movie was but It was a movie about the mortgage industry and subprime lending.I was right in the middle of that noticed things pretty early on that I was making way too much money for doing way too little work and something wasn't right. lo and behold, the market crashed and. I went from a decent salary and commission to making 25, 000 a year.And I didn't want to go back to that part of my life where it was very based on the market, I wanted to do something that I felt was going to change people's lives for the better. And I think everybody needs. Dentistry in their lives. They should. And I had a friend who worked for a line technology and said, Hey, there's this product called Eric and uh, there's an opening.I think you should apply for it. So sort of how I got into it and no idea what I was doing and how I got into it, but haven't looked back one day. Man, Michael: so rewind a little bit. Talk to me about how you felt when you were at that oh man stuff is racking up as far as like bills and stuff like that.Damien: Yeah It's very demoralizing Hard on relationships Having to borrow money from my then girlfriend now wife to make ends meet but she stuck with me through everything realizing that you're at the highs, there's absolute highs and then there's the absolute lows. And I was definitely in a low and while starting in dentistry at 25, 000 a year and slowly building my gradual climb to a normal lifestyle.Was a slow and steady pace, but again, I haven't looked back since my mentor once told me that, you can be up here and down here and up down here and never have a steady aspect of life, but you can maintain the course and just gradually increase what you do. and that's where um, you know, I'm at today and that's how I try to live life is, not go for the gusto and, take life gradually and build upon that every day. I Michael: like that, man. That's really, really good. Really smart. So then the selling part of the digital technology. Do you feel like now there's less selling to do and more people are reaching out and like, hey, we need this, but there's more options?Or do you feel like now we still got to like teach show them like you need technology? Damien: Well, There's a lot of different technologies out there, and they're all great. There's, probably 30 different inter role scanners which needs to be the hot topic for most offices.Getting into digital technology is where they start that aspect. If you look at a practice in general, digital starts with the practice management. So you have your practice management. Which is full digital, at least, hopefully, at least, 95 percent or so have digital and they're not paper files anymore.And then it goes digital x ray, It's no more film turning that corner. From there, intral scanning seems to be the next logical step where panoramic x ray, 3D comb beam, something of that nature. And then comes in office manufacturing. So, We used to call it when I was at Patterson Dental, the digital waterfall of where you have your, 90 percent market share of doctors who are doing practice management digitally, then you have the next level, which was falling over from there.It would be your, digital x ray. And now that market is complete. So now we're back up here. And now we're still at that intro scanner market, which is probably in my estimation, 45 to 50 percent penetration into marketplace. So there's still a lot of dentists who don't have digital technology in their office in some format.We're starting to see that it's going to start shooting a lot higher, a lot more people adding the technology to their practice quicker but adding the right technology is the important aspect. And that's sort of where I come in. Again, when I worked for Patterson, I was selling 1 product.We were selling CEREC. And it was pretty much the only product available at the time, and it was 120, for a full system set up. Not something a lot of people wanted to partake in or invest in as time has gone on. There's been, internal scanners and some people. Who don't want to do in office manufacturing, so they send the files off to a laboratory digitally.The market was dictating that people didn't want to pay extra fees or high prices for these items. And so we at Cadre discovered Medit early on. Medit is an internal scanner that has no fees involved with price point when we first started selling was at 18, 000. So a price point that was unmatched in the industry for the most part without additional fees. that sort of broke down that barrier for a lot of people to start looking seriously at digital technology. and today we're the number one dealer of Medit in the world. We also have Trios. We have Shining 3D. I mean, it's not just, all our eggs in a basket of Medit, but the idea was that We could overcome the obstacle the barrier of many offices, which is cost with the product, as long as the product works and more importantly, we were able to support the product people would adopt to it pretty quickly.And so that it had grown to a point where they have a new system out. The I 700 came out a couple of years ago at an even better price point and even easier to use. And I think that sort of put the industry on notice to re look at their pricing and their fee structures. So a lot of the companies like 3Shape Trios uh, lowered their price, what cost you 41, only a year and a half ago, now cost you 21, 900 with no additional fees.If it has done anything for the industry, it's break down that barrier and also force other companies to look inward and redesign what they're doing. And so I know it's around about answer there, but to answer your question, there's still a lot of selling to do to doctors to make sure they make the right choice.I think they all know they need digital technology in their office at this point. I think, that they're all going to adopt to it, but making sure they adopt to the right one is where our job comes in. Michael: that's interesting. So then, if we rewind a little bit, you said Meta broke down big barriers, right?Big barriers and people were able to adopt it better. To you, what would be the biggest barrier then? Would it be the price point? Damien: Price is always the biggest barrier. again, I can bring it back to my CEREC days at 120, 000. Price is always going to play a factor in any decision anybody makes, whether it's buying a car, buying a house buying anything.Now I choke at spending 3 more for For avocado Chipotle. So price is an important factor for most people, but once you break that price barrier down, I feel it becomes about a mental state of, can I do this? Is it easy to use? And then it comes to, will I be supported? So not just for the sale, but after the sale and beyond the sale.And that's where we at Cadre sort of take over. To give you a little background on Cadre, if I can for a second. we're a distribution company now, since 2018. Again, Medit was our first product. But prior to that Cadre was started by our CEO and clinical advisor, Dr.Armin from Los Angeles. he's a one of the founders of sericdoctors. com. Which is now part of spear education. When he sold his aspect of that sericdoctors. com, he still wanted to maintain educating doctors and bring in technology to these doctors to... Show them what helps him in his practice and educate others, spread his love for technology his geekiness for the digital technology aspect.But one thing he always maintained was Cadre. Cadre was a digital implant planning company. So back when comb beams were 200, 000 and more he had the idea to start these scan centers where. Doctors would be in a metropolis area, like Chicago or la and they can send their patients in to get scanned.He would then take the file, planning the implant and send a surgical stent so that they can do digital implant planning without having to invest in a cone beam. Technology. Obviously, prices on cone beam have come down now. You can get into a cone beam for as low as $40,000. and do the planning yourself.So the scan aspect went away, but the digital planning was still a big part of the business, but education was always his biggest thing and trying to find a product that made sense to expand and educate doctors on was something that he was continuing to look for.So my former colleagues. Rich and John both worked with me at Patterson as CEREC specialists joined forces with Armin and created Cadre Distribution with the idea that we know what it takes to support a doctor. Again, education from Armin on the clinical side of, CEREC dentistry has always been his background.Rich, John, myself, a CEREC specialist for Patterson Dental for over 12 years. we know what it takes to support a doctor to make them successful. and we sort of felt that was where other companies fail. Anybody can sell the product, but supporting the product is the most important aspect. So when we started this venture, it was about the customer first, not about us, not about the product. In many ways, I feel like we're a education and support company first and a sales company second. And doctors noticed that. And we are very, very organic. Company in that we do no outbound marketing at all.Everything we've grown to become has been through social media and through referrals from doctors and you don't get referrals unless you do something really good. and our support with medit has allowed us to grow to where we are today to bring in other products and support our doctors.After so if you were to Google Cadre we have hundreds of five star reviews.Some people talk about the products we sell, but every single person talks about the service, support, and education they receive from us. And that's our calling card. So support is by far the most important aspect of what we do on a daily basis. Nice. Okay. Michael: So then some of the biggest barriers we talked about was like money.But then at the same time, I guess a great point is the support that's how referrals happen. Right. Like you said, Oh my God, they're fantastic. Not so much like, Oh yeah, they're cheap, but they suck. Right It's more like the referrals, their support is really, really great. So then you mentioned something about, Okay. you guys know what it takes to make a doctor successful. what does it take to support a doctor to be successful? Damien: Knowledge, obviously, right? So from a technical standpoint, be able to make sure their technology is working.So if they have an issue, they have one phone over to call. More importantly, they get a live human every single time. There's no numbers to press. Hey, enter your phone number. Let me put you on hold when you call our number. You're going to get a live human anytime between the hours of 8 a. m. and 8 p.m. East Coast time Monday through Friday. From there, that's the technical aspect. More importantly is the clinical aspect. we were virtual before virtual was cool during coven. So we started basically very slow as a virtual company where the beginning we were. Two sales reps and a CEO that was educating people.And we were able to reach anywhere in the country through zoom, like we're doing right now. So the idea of selling technology over zoom, instead of a knee to knee aspect or a clinical demo in an office was something sort of new at the time obviously it's changed now where it's a very um, status quo for most companies, it was, new at the time.so being able to utilize the tools like zoom and team viewer to support the doctors was very important. So one zoom to educate them and train them and then to the team viewer aspect. So we have all sat chair side digitally. In a dental office even our support team. Now, as we've grown, we've brought them in.They have all been dental assistants who have sat chair side. So we speak the lingo. We know the procedures. So at any time the doctor is doing, let's say the 1st implant scan and they need help. not just going to offer them technical help. We're going to log in with them and sit virtually chair side with them and support them to that case.Hey, this is where you need to go next. Okay. You need a better scan of that area. And make them feel comfortable in doing those cases. And we can do that anywhere in the world, at any time, between the hours of 8 and 8, of course. but that's the important factors. Yes, companies can offer technical support, but where they fall, sometimes it's in that clinical aspect.And that's where we take over. Gotcha. Michael: So it kind of leads to my next question. What can a practice owner, a dentist, do today in your opinion, to improve their marketing or their business? Damien: I've always been a believer that if you build it, they will come digital technology in general has been ingrained in me and I've been great at my doctors and I've seen practices grow by adding digital technology.not for just from an overhead perspective. Hey, we're going to cut costs here, or we're going to be able to mail in office and cut down our procedures. But. Referral word of mouth from digital technology, the patient base, I believe, is getting younger and smarter. They know technology, they want to see technology for me growing up I'm 46, my 1st dentist, it was a rotary instrument dentist with you know, big octopus looking thing coming at me.Those things are ingrained in my memory and my kids. Today they go to the dentist with no issues because they like to see the technology and they're not afraid of what's going to happen to them. I fully believe that adding digital technology, no matter how little or how big is definitely helpful to help build that patient base and garner more attention to your practice.Gotcha. Michael: Have you seen any of all the practices you work with, any of the practices where they market the technology in like a unique or smart way or, Damien: or what do you think? well, I mean, social media obviously is a big thing and, you know, especially with tick tock videos and instagram. There's a lot of great information out there now. But back when I first started, there wasn't social media aspect and everyone's doing social media now for the most part.But, displaying your technology, being proud of the technology, bringing patients through 1 thing that I've learned. Walking into thousands of dental offices is that not every single dental office is the same. There's offices that have wood paneling on the walls. They're very old. Nothing wrong with them.Not, knocking the dentistry that's done in those offices, but are they pleasing to the eye? No. And then I've seen offices that are absolutely gorgeous and have no patients. where's the difference there? Where does it lie? And totally always believe it lies in the doctor and the bedside manner of that doctor.And their staff more importantly but I'll ask meeting a new friend or whatever. Ask who their dentist is. And they tell me and I go, oh, okay why do you choose them? I know the office and I've seen the office and I've seen the dentistry that comes out of the office sometimes.And I'm like, all right, I probably wouldn't send my friends and family there, but I'm interested to know why you go there. And, they say it's I've been going there for years, or I just doctors so nice and doesn't oversell me on things. And, it's important to them, but they've also never stepped into another dental office.I'm sure if they walked into a beautiful boutique dental office, they might change their mind of who they see just based on looks. Doesn't necessarily mean they're pumping out great dentistry. But displaying the technology getting people to know that technology exists through marketing digital social media, not so much paid ads.again, personally speaking from my point of view, I think, Facebook ads and social media ads are a waste of money. I think there's a lot of clickbait and a lot of farmers out there that just take your money and people that you want to see really aren't seeing it you think they are.but just through organic social posts and shares I always love the viral videos but, to go back to your original question.Yeah, just marketing technology putting it on display. If you have 3D printer, it's really cool technology. Why not put it where patients can see it and see what's happening or a milling unit in the office, putting it somewhere on display behind a glass case. Patients can see their tooth being made they'll take their phone out.They'll go right up to it. They'll take a video, put it on their social media. And then share it to their friends and family. It's a really cool experience when you see that happen. it happens time and time again when you actually make the patient part of the process. They're always going to pull their phone out and video it.Michael: Yeah, I like that, make the patient part of their process. It's really interesting. now these next questions are just to get into the head of someone who isn't totally involved on the clinical side of dentistry, Working in their mouth every single day. What would you, Damien, like to see more from a Damien: dentist?not to be afraid of adding technology come to courses and learn. I think we fell out of the realm during covid of people attending trade shows and courses and starting to come back a little bit at the trade shows doing lately, seeing more people out there, but definitely not where it was.7 years ago I think that doctors, there's only so much you can learn online and that you need to get out there and learn things in person especially with the C courses, they take the required courses. They take some ancillary courses that you may want to take, but I think anything that you get hands on with.We'll change how they feel about certain things. So if you're curious about digital technologies, definitely take a hands on type course. So you can involve yourself in the dentistry that you want to do. Or thinking about doing not just learning online because it's a big difference when you get to see it, feel it, touch it.Then when you are just, reading something online or reading a Facebook post as many people do. Michael: Yeah. You mentioned afraid, like have you noticed that like a lot of people are afraid to add technology their practice? So why? Damien: Again, it's, it comes down to their mindset. the barrier of prices, I don't think any longer there because it makes more sense to invest in technology than it is to continue to do the analog processes just from a financial aspect.That makes sense. I think from a team perspective is where most people have a hiccup. Whether they don't want to make changes on their team or the team is resistant to change. What I found time and time again is if your team is not on board, you're going to fail with the technology. So having the proper mindset going in with your team is of utmost importance in my opinion.Michael: Okay. And then right now, what do you dislike or Damien: hate about dentistry? There's nothing I really dislike about dentistry. In general, from my perspective, from a patient perspective I hate dental insurance. I see so many people letting dental insurance dictate their all care not doing certain procedures because the dental insurance is not paying for it's not health insurance and while it's nice to have a little discount with your insurance. I would never let that dictate my oral care. If I need something done, I want to get it done, but many patients don't understand that. And, I think it's an education aspect of the patient to let them understand what insurance actually is in the dental world and what it covers and what it doesn't cover.But I see it time and time again where, patients go to get their teeth pulled versus getting an implant because that's what the insurance is paying for. And they don't realize how important their teeth are. So I think education for the patient is the most important aspect of that. Michael: Yeah.No, a hundred percent. Yeah. I agree. And then what needs to change? In your opinion, for people to be more open to dentistry. Damien: I think it's starting to change now just because the population is getting younger and more aware. There's a lot more research going on with overall body health leading from the oral cavity. And, you know, there's a lot of airway issues going on and breathing issues that lead to high blood pressure and other health factors. and they're starting to. Realize that and put a positive spin on dentistry. I think there's a lot of negativity towards dentistry, especially from the patient population when it comes to cost. but I think as the patient population gets younger, starting to realize how important things are that go on inside the mouth and we're starting to see a change there, at least in my opinion.Michael: No, yeah, I agree. I agree 100%. We're starting to see that pivot. Right now, any final pieces of advice or suggestions you'd like to give to our listeners, specifically like startups, people who are practice owners. Damien: So for us, especially with startups and, younger dentists we believe, or I believe especially that we need to meet the doctor where they are today.It's nice to sell about the future. But I don't want to oversell a doctor on an idea or a promise that I can't manufacture for them. What I mean by that is if you're starting practice and you want to add technology, you may think you need a milling unit. You may think you need a printer and a scanner, All at once start with one. technology is still going to be there when you're ready to buy the rest of it. But especially from the team perspective. Change is always good in my opinion, but too much change at once could have a negative impact on a practice. And so if you're getting into digital technology, start with the scanner, start with a comb beam and then go from there.Once you master those things and realize the investment on those products, then you can add the other products. we're all sales reps at the end of the day at Cadre. But it's not about us. It's about the doctor at the end of the day and what's right for them. So don't overbuy buy what you feel comfortable with and get into that mindset of you can always add things on later on.Nice. I like Michael: that. Damien, I appreciate your time. And if anyone has further questions or they want to reach out to you, where can they find Damien: you? You can go to cadray. com. You can reach me personally at Damien, D A M I E N at cad ray. com. And I'm sure you can find me in any social media group involving, dental. I'll be, uh, commenting typically in any digital technology group. So if you haven't heard of me stay out of the group. So you'll, get annoyed by me. Michael: No, they haven't. Now they have, man. Now they have heard of you. So awesome, Damian. We appreciate your time, man. It's been a pleasure and we'll hear from you Damien: soon.Sounds great. Thank you so much for the time.‍

Superhero Kids Are Saving the Earth The Earth needs a lot of help. Who can help? One man says kids can help the Earth! 有個人說小朋友可以幫助地球! The man made a game for kids. The game helps them save the Earth! In this game, kids are superheroes. 他為小朋友設計了一個救地球的遊戲，在遊戲裡，他們都是超級英雄。 How do kids play the game? First, they make a superhero group. Superheroes are stronger together. 這個遊戲該怎麼玩呢? 首先小朋友們要組成超級英雄聯盟。 Then they look at their neighborhood. Can they help the Earth there? Are the parks dirty? Are there no trees or gardens? 他們找找看家裡附近有沒有可以幫助地球的，公園乾不乾淨，是不是沒有樹或花園。 The superheroes talk to people in their neighborhood. They learn a lot. Some people give them more help. 超級英雄們和鄰居聊過，他們學到很多，有一些鄰居還給他們很多幫助。 The superheroes have many ideas. They make a plan and then … the superheroes have fun! 孩子們有很多的想法。他們訂了一個計劃。 The superheroes make parks clean and green! They plant trees! They make neighborhood gardens! They have fun together and help save the Earth! 孩子們綠化了公園，也把它變乾淨! 他們玩得很開心還幫助了地球! The Earth needs many superheroes. You and your friends can be superheroes too! Play the game together. 地球需要更多的超級英雄。你跟你的朋友也一起參加遊戲吧! ************************************************************************************************ Vocabulary 一個好玩的遊戲，讓兒童幫地球的忙。 1. dirty 髒的。 Wow, this beach is really dirty! 哇，這個海灘真是髒! Yeah… It was not like this when I was little. 是啊，我小時候不是這樣的。 2. look at 看，注視。 Look at all these bottles and bags! 你看這些瓶子袋子。 Should we help clean this beach? 我們應該幫忙清理這個海灘嗎? 3. neighborhood 鄰近的區域。 No! What we should do is get everyone in this neighborhood to help out. 不，我們應該做的，是讓這個地方每個人都來幫忙清理。 That's too hard. 那太難了。 4. together 一起。 I know. But it's the only way. 我知道，不過這是唯一的辦法。And it can be fun when people do it together. 而且大家一起做，還會很好玩呢! 一起來讀今天的單字。 dirty髒的 look at注視 neighborhood鄰近的區域 together一起 ************************************************************************************************ Quiz 1. What did one man make to help save the Earth? a. a park b. a game c. a lot of money 2. Why do the kids make a superhero group? a. to clean parks b. to plant trees c. to be stronger together 3. Where do the superheroes help the Earth? a. the supermarket b. their neighborhood c. their friends' homes Answers: 1. b 2. c 3. b

Welcome to the Wise Not Withered Podcast! This month's guest is Javi Martinez, who shares her incredible story about her gaming history, her experience being a trans-feminine, gender-fluid person, her spiritual and shamanic path, including her current work at the International School of Temple Arts, as faculty and event organizer and coordinator. Thank you so much, Javi Martinez, for joining us on the Wise Not Withered podcast! What is your age? Oh shit… Heh, my age is 54. 54, all right. And where did you grow up? Well, the first few years of my life, I grew up in Guatemala. And then we ended up moving to the United States roughly when I was nine or ten years old. Okay, and what brought you here? Just my family moved. My dad was working up here, and we ended up coming up to join him. Okay. And where do you currently live? I live in western Massachusetts, in a town called Amherst. Amherst, okay. How long have you been there? Since I was about ten years old! (laughs) Oh! Oh wow, so you moved to Guatemala… Well, off and on. I've moved to other areas nearby, and then ended up coming back here. Okay, so it's kinda been in that same area since ten years old. Okay, cool. Forty-something years, yeah. Yeah. Great. So I met your partner at a recent retreat. She mentioned that you're an avid gamer. Can you tell us about your gaming history? Well, let's see. I guess it's something that I've always liked. I've always liked playing games. Games have always been an important part of my life, just overall. And then yeah, when I was about nine or ten years old, I started playing tabletop games, like Dungeons & Dragons. And that was one of my favorite things, so I started doing that pretty religiously for a while. Then I also grew up in the time of arcades. There really wasn't home gaming systems. You know, we all had to like, save our quarters and run out to the video game arcade and play video games there. So my friends and I would do that. We would like, not eat lunch at school, and take our lunch money and go play video games after school. Wow! Yeah, so it's just been something I've always enjoyed. Then I got the original Atari, and then you know, kept playing video games at home. You know, as well as other games. And basically, once the Play Station came out, I've just been like, a loyal Play Station person. Yeah. What are some of your… The gems, yeah. The gems are mostly role-playing games. I just… Not having the time, or even the group of friends—we all had time to play tabletop role-playing. Once I wasn't able to do that, my desire and my love of role-playing games transferred over to video games. So I've played games like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Skyrim. Those are my favorites. The Assassin's Creed Odyssey was really good. I really love that one as well. But yeah, mostly role-playing games are the ones I love. Mhm. Yeah, me too! I tend to gravitate toward those ones. I'm not very good at the shooters or the platforming games. Yeah, so I don't do like MMOs or go online with people. Yeah, for me it's about entering a fantasy world. Tied into that is my love of reading. I grew up reading fantasy books. So it's all woven together. Do you still read those kinds of books, or not as much? Not as much because of time, and other interests. But yeah, the past few months I did go back and re-read a few of my old favorites. So it was really nice to go back and re-read them. What made you decide to go re-read those books? Um… I'm not sure. I just basically have been playing video games a lot, and was getting sort of bored with that, and I was like oh yeah, reading! (laughs) I mean I've been reading other books, like spiritually-themed books. But yeah, I just felt like wow, I haven't done like, pleasure reading in a long time. Just sat down with a fun book and just devoured it. So that felt really good. Yeah, something a little more light. Yeah, exactly. That's pretty cool. So she also mentioned that you're a Guatemalan trans goddess! I love that title. She gives me all kinds of titles! (laughs) Yeah, “She's an avid gamer, trans goddess”, all these very, very fascinating things. Yeah, I'm so curious—the whole transitioning process, like identity, spirituality, social constructs, culture… Whatever you're comfortable sharing, I'm very curious! Well that's really open-ended! Yeah… I guess it's a funny thing. My transition is… I don't know if it's particularly unique, but I think it's different than most other people, because it was very much tied into my spirituality and my shamanic path. Okay. Where to begin… Yeah. Growing up, I didn't remember or know that… I'm like, so feminine and a woman inside. I didn't know I was a woman. I grew up thinking and feeling that I was a boy, and a man. Things like that. I knew I was different. Like I always had a funny sense that I wasn't like all my other friends, like I felt things that they didn't, feel things that they didn't feel, I would think differently… Yeah, I just thought okay, I'm just different. I'm just a weird person. But then when I started my… Really stepped into my spiritual path, and I started doing my shamanic work, like shamanic journeying, and really stepping forward into my shamanic path, I was called into service. One of my Patron Goddesses that has been with me my whole life stepped forward, and was like, okay, I want you to devote yourself to me, whole-heartedly. Like 100% devotion. And one of the rules or stipulations that she put, is that if I am to do this, I have to devote myself 100% and effectively do everything she asked, no right of refusal—which was, you know, pretty intense, to think of like okay, I want to be in devotion, I want to serve, and I want to do these things. But to have like… Yeah, to give everything over, to really do everything Spirit asked of me was a big step, and I had to really think about it for a while, and really feel into it, if it was something I was really willing to do. And yeah, so after a couple of months of meditating on it and really feeling into it, I was like okay, I guess this is something I need to do. And she told me that you know, it was my choice. If I do it, it would be really challenging and difficult, but also very rewarding. And if I didn't do it, that I could go on living a regular, boring life. And the more I thought about it, I was like, I didn't want to have a boring life, and I do want to be a healer, and do all these things… And if I don't do this, and I don't gain the skills, what's gonna happen in the future if those skills are needed? Like, I have a daughter, like what if my daughter needed some form of healing, and because I chose to just be a regular, boring… Call it a “muggle”, you know, and I didn't have access to that divine connection to provide what I needed to provide, I would regret it. So I thought well, I guess this is something I need to do. Yeah, so I did it, I held a ceremony, I did my devotion. And pretty much right after I devoted myself to her, she said, “You're a woman.” And I was like, “Excuse me? What do you mean, I'm a woman?” And she said, “You're a woman.” And I thought, “Okay, I don't know what the fuck that means.” (laughs) And I had to sit and meditate with that, and then she started giving me tasks. Like I had to get rid of all my old clothes. I had to go buy women's clothes. All these things that were really about feminizing me. So she started giving me all these tasks to have me really drop into more a feminine place. The more tasks she gave me, the more I realized wow, she is guiding me really to this thing of like… She says I'm a woman. So I started feeling into that. Like okay, I promised I'd do everything she asked. She said I'm a woman. Let me feel into that, what does this feel like for me? Really feel into it, am I? Am I really a woman? So I started doing like a deep dive with this feeling, with this idea… I went to other shaman people, shamanic practitioners, I went to psychics. I would go to different things, and I would ask like, “Okay, can you help me with this? Can you journey and find out, or can you get a reading for me? Am I really a woman?” I did that a few times, I'm like I need to double-check this. Maybe I'm going insane, let me go ask a few other people to see if this is congruent. And the answers were pretty much in alignment that there was something there for me to explore. So I'm like okay, I'm exploring this. And after… I don't know what it was, like six, seven months of doing tasks, like wearing make-up and doing different things, I did another journey, and this time she said, “Okay, now you're gonna go and get estrogen. You're gonna go get hormones.” And you know, that was a big step for me! I was like okay, I guess we're reaching a new level. And I still wasn't fully convinced I was a woman at the time. And how old were you at that point? It's been fifteen years, so… Yeah it's been about fifteen years. So like 40, 39? Yeah. 40, 39, yeah… Sixteen years… Anyways, so I went and spoke to my doctor. I mean, I knew all the things I needed to say to get the estrogen. And yeah, it was a very… It was like a big portal for me in my life and my transition and my sense of self, because the moment that I injected the estrogen for the first time, when the estrogen coursed through my body, it felt… Yeah, it really felt in my system like, I'm home. I'm home. And it really felt so much like home, and so much like… Like, this is what I've been looking for my whole life. This feeling is what I've been seeking my whole life and I didn't know it. You know it's almost like having that… Like my body always felt off, wrong… I always felt… I don't know what to call it, like… I never felt comfortable in my own skin, kind of a feeling. And it was a constant thing that I wasn't aware of until I had the estrogen, and then I was like oh my goodness, this is what I've been waiting for. This is it. This is it. This is home for me. I felt at home in my body, maybe for the first time. And yeah, I remember that as soon as I felt this, I looked up and I was like, “You were right!” I had this moment of, “You were right.” So that was how it began. It was not like I had any idea that that's what I was doing… Yeah, up to that point I had doubts. Even after that point, I had periods of doubts. Even now! (laughs) Even now there's still moments where I question my gender. You know, people say that gender is fluid, and it changes with whatever throughout your life… I'm not sure if that's the case or not, but for me there's definitely been elements of fluidity, particularly in the first half of my transition. I did go through periods of time where I felt like I was more trans feminine, but gender fluid, and I would flow back and forth. Hm! How would that show up, like in a day-to-day thing? It could be day to day, it could be minute to minute. It could be situational. Part of it is that I do carry forty-plus years of living as a man in my system, in my body, in my muscle memory, in my brain. Biologically speaking, you know, testosterone shaped my brain. The testosterone brain and the estrogen brain are very different on many levels. There's different neural pathways that run through the brains, dictated by hormones. So I have all the masculine—I don't know if masculine is the right word… All the testosterone neural pathways, and then I got and formed—my brain got reshaped, with all the estrogen neural pathways. So my brain does some weird things sometimes. (laughs) So yeah, I mean, it's… Hm. I'm trying to think of a way to explain it that makes sense. At times, like in the past, like the first half of my transition, I would say that I typically shifted within the spectrum of what I would consider my identity based on if I was feeling masculine or feminine. So if I stepped into a real masculine space, it was almost like everything just sorta shifted, and I would step into that place. You know, like I was before my transition. It was a full shift. You know, body mannerisms, the way I spoke, the way I carried myself, the way I sit, the way I talk. It just becomes very much like that. And then when I was feeling more feminine, I would flow more into like a soft, feminine place, where I could feel my identity as a woman more fully. So I was like going back and forth based on how I felt within the masculine-feminine polarities and dynamics that are within me. I mean, everybody has them. Right. Everybody has them, but within me it would cause shifts in how I felt about myself. How I felt about myself in the moment. And that still happens periodically. And yeah… There's times that I just feel, like I feel my body, and I'm like “Is this right for me?” I don't know… There's moments of questioning. It's interesting, like sometimes I don't realize I've made a shift until I'm talking to someone about something. And then my language sometimes gives me a clue. For example, as an educator, if I was to be talking about let's call it male psychology or male health, male sexuality, or growing up that way, or something… And I'd be talking, and I might shift into language of like… Including myself, like “We often feel this way when…” or things like that. And when that comes out, sometimes I'm like “Oh. I'm a ‘we' with this now. Okay, that's interesting…” And there's other times that I'm not aware of it, that someone will use my pronouns, of like she or her, that don't feel good in my system. And someone will refer to me in that way and I'll constrict and be like whoa, that's not me. And then I'll be like okay, that's weird, I didn't realize… I don't feel good being a she/her right now. And it makes me feel like, “Am I a he/him?” Where am I on the pronoun spectrum? But it's not like a conscious thing, like I wake up and go hey, I'm gonna be this. It's just how I am just going through my day, there's little indicators that tell me, you're more this way on the spectrum today, or in this moment. And a lot of times it's those things… Even though the majority of the time, when I'm going through my day, when people misgender me, and call me “sir” or a he/him, it hurts… You know, it hurts, and I know I'm over here. And so it's more situations and external reflections that give me an indicator as to where I am in the moment. But I would say the majority of the time, I'm definitely in the trans feminine identity. A lot of times it's easier for me to say I'm a trans-woman to people, than to say oh I'm trans-feminine but sometimes I'm fluid, and da-da-da… And like, it just turns into this big, huge, confusing thing, and if 99% of the time she/her pronouns make me happy, I just say hey, great. Just please use she/her pronouns, because 99% of the time they make me happy, and it's so much easier to say I'm a woman. And I am. I mean, even as far back as February, just a couple months ago, I was going through a questioning period. I was going on shamanic journeys, and getting help from other practitioners, to figure out like… What is my gender? Who am I? I was going through one of those questioning periods. And at the end of the day, the answer I got through all of the guidance I got and journeys I did, was that I am a woman. So I am. Yeah… It's complicated. It's simple but complicated. (laughs) Yeah, I can understand that! Can you talk more about the shamanic journey? What started you, what got you interested? I'm sure that's a whole thing too! Well, I've always been interested in the metaphysical, the spiritual… When I went through adolescence, I was interested in the Occult. I was always interested in those kinds of things. You know, I read books and practiced basic rituals. And you know, Pagan things, as I was going through adolescence into adulthood, and that's always been important to me. But yeah, it started with… Okay. I have to give you a little bit of background. I'm a licensed mental health counselor. And I used to work in a juvenile detention center, working with delinquent kids. And I did that for almost twenty-five years. And I was at a conference that was based around the treatment of sex offenders. At this conference, there was a clinician that was also a shamanic healer, who worked in the treatment of sex offenders using Native American healing ceremonies as part of his practice. And so he was giving a presentation, and I was like “Yeah, that's my shit right there. I need to be in this. I need to know about this.” And so I sat in this class, and he spoke about you know, living in Africa, and learning to be a shaman in Africa, a Sangoma, and he gave all these presentations and things that were amazing, and he even talked about shamanic healing for things like anxiety. And he led a healing circle for a shamanic healing ceremony, to help somebody who was there who had anxiety. So I participated and witnessed this ceremony, and the whole time that he was speaking, the whole time this class was happening, and during the ceremony, I felt like lightning was going through my body. There was so much energy coursing through my body throughout this whole class, that I was just like “Damn, I need to look into this. I need to do this. This is amazing!” I could feel it. It's so… In me! I had to do it. So I took some of the recommended books that he had listed on his thing. I think I might have ordered them from Amazon, I don't remember. But yeah, I just took the books, started reading. I started going to drumming and journeying circles near my house, that other shamanic practitioners were doing. And so I just started journeying and connecting to my spirit guides. Building relationships with my spirit guides. And then yeah, the more I did it, the more it felt alive in me. And that's when my teacher, my spirit guide, my Goddess, who I'd been building a relationship with shamanically—I already had a relationship with her before, when I was in my Pagan… For lack of a better term, growing up Pagan. Yeah, she stepped forward, and was like, I want you to devote yourself. So I devoted myself… And yeah, it's just gone from there. Yeah. And so I'm curious what the whole devotion thing… What all does that entail? And I guess, what purpose does it serve for you, too? Well, what it entails is being in service. So it's not just being in service to her, but it basically means being in service to the Earth, being in service to people, being in service to our collective. In essence, I'm a priestess. And as a priestess, I'm here to serve. And that may look different ways at different times to different people. You know, I may be doing ceremonies in nature for Mother Earth, that have to do with healing, water, or connecting to trees. Cleaning up trash, I do that. (Laughs) Or, it could be going on journeys for people that need help, need questions answered, need healing. It could mean doing Reiki or energy healing on someone that needs healing. It could be… Yeah, numerous things. Part of my path, part of being in service is also being a teacher, being a presenter, being an event coordinator. There's a lot of areas where I'm in service. What does it mean for me? It means a lot of things! Like for one thing, it meant me finding who I really am. And ultimately, I will say that my transition was hard. I was terrified. I was terrified to transition. And especially in this world where there's so much hate toward trans and queer people… I mean right now you know the Republican right wing agenda is all anti-trans. Everything is anti-trans. There's politicians calling for us to be eradicated. There's all kinds of crazy stuff. So yeah, I was terrified to do so, not just for the world, but within myself. I had internal fear about doing the transition as well. Right. You know, coming out, and just everything. And so I really feel like if I had not promised to do everything she asked, I probably wouldn't have done it. And I think that Spirit, the Divine, knew that at this point in my life and who I was and where I was in life and everything, that I needed to be fully devoted with no right of refusal, for me to do the things I needed to do. And to really step into myself, into my power, into being authentic. Because I think if I didn't have that, I would have been too afraid. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that that's one of the things that served me, as hard as it was! Yeah, I mean I'm living… (laughs) I live a crazy life! Most people would consider it crazy. You know, I don't think I would have had the courage to step into it and do all of the things that I do if I didn't have this… Yeah, this place of being in service. And feeling like I have this spiritual safety net—that I can jump into all these things, knowing that I'm supported, that I'm doing the right thing, if that makes sense. If I have Spirit telling me to do something, and it's spirits that are my guides and teachers that I have a close relationship to, I feel safe that this is the right thing for me. So it's nice to have guidance. So many people in this world wander around, like looking for a purpose, looking for, “What the hell am I doing with myself? Why am I here? What's my purpose?” Mid-life crises. All these things. And for me, it's been handed to me in a sense. Like, here you go, this is what you're doing, like it or not. And half the time, I haven't liked it cause it's been really hard, and painful. Having to also face and heal all my trauma, you know… I needed to heal all my trauma, so that I can better serve and heal other people's trauma—has not been easy. But it's been rewarding. It's like my Goddess said, I mean it hasn't been easy, it's been challenging, but it has been very rewarding. And continues to be very rewarding. Yeah, I can resonate with a lot of that. You mentioned drumming, and journeys? What exactly is a shamanic journey? I have heard that term before—can you describe it a bit more? Yeah… Let me see if I can summarize this quickly. Okay. So when I speak in terms of Michael Harner, and his school and foundation of shamanic studies… Michael Harner was an anthropologist that traveled around the world and lived with many indigenous cultures, and eventually became a shaman. He was welcomed by the village shamans into their mysteries. The more he traveled around the world, the more he realized that universally, all the shamanic cultures around the world do the same things. They may have different flavors of how they do it. They may have different techniques that vary in appearance or flavor but ultimately, all the shamanic practices are the same, or similar. And so he called it Core Shamanism. So this foundation of shamanic studies teaches what he calls Core Shamanism. And so in Core Shamanism, the idea is that people go into ecstatic states—altered states of consciousness, where we communicate with spirits, with entities, with trees, with the Earth, with the seasons, with elements… And there's different ways of doing it. Everything from dancing, to fasting, to vision quests… You know, going out in nature for a few days with no food… It could be going into a dark cave for two days, in darkness… There's all these ways that universally, people have done these things. Plant medicines. Every culture around the world uses some form of mushroom or plant medicine, to… Or you know, frogs, or whatever. There's different nature medicines that help open the mind, and expand consciousness, to communicate with Spirit—that's spiritual growth. But ultimately, to narrow it down, what he found is that people can do this naturally without medicines, without doing anything else—through drumming. Oh yeah, I should mention breath work—breath work is a big way to also enter these states of consciousness. But yeah, so drumming, where you just take a drum, and beat it at a particular speed or frequency, has a particular vibration that is encoded in our DNA. Every human being across the globe, it has been proven in studies, that if you just sit and close your eyes, and listen to a drum, just beating, and you just relax, it will put your mind into a trance state. I forget what it's called, like the theta state, where we dream. I forget what it is, if it's beta or theta state, I can't remember. Yeah, I'm not sure. So basically, people that are awake, that are just sitting and listening to drumming, if they just allow themselves to relax, they will automatically go into this kind of mental wave length state where you can receive visions, or dreams. And every person can do it—it's part of our brain. Our brains are wired to do this, naturally. So effectively, it's in our DNA that we are all shamans, and that we can all do shamanic journeys, just from using a drum. Just like we can all do it through breath work. Like if we do the Wim Hof method, or the shamanic breathwork. There's different types of breathwork—holotropic breathwork. All those kinds of things. It's naturally in our systems, in our brains, that when we do these things, this happens. So everybody can do this naturally. And I think we all did it naturally, two thousand-plus years ago, before the advent of the Judeo-Christian religions, that told us that we needed to go to a church, to talk to a priest, and the priest could talk to God for us, and that we couldn't do it ourselves. We've been disempowered, and disconnected from Source, and disconnected from Spirit. But we all have it. So yeah, shamanic journeys can come in many forms. Like ayahuasca or mushrooms, or it can come through holotropic breathwork. But I started with drumming, because that's the most basic, most foundational one, where you really don't have to do anything but sit, and listen to the drum. And then there's guidance, where for shamanic journeys, we do use… People do use their imagination. Like visualization. Like if you go to some psychic circles, and people take you through a guided meditation, where someone is guiding you, down a hall and down some stairs, and through a door, and into a room, and what do you see in the room. And so a guided meditation is very similar, where you have someone guiding you through the experience, but when you learn to do a shamanic journey, you're doing it for yourself. So you imagine yourself going into a cave, and following the cavern down deeper and deeper and deeper, to go into what's called lower world. In shamanic cosmology, there's upper world and lower world. And middle world—the middle world is where we live in. And the upper world is where, traditionally, the spirits that are human-shaped are found, like ancestors, passed loved ones. Some people might say deities. Basically the human-shaped, humanoid-type teachers and guides are usually found in the upper world. And when you go into the lower world, that's where you connect with plant and animal spirits, like your animal spirit guides, like your Power Animal. Okay. So you visualize yourself going down into this, or you visualize yourself climbing a ladder or climbing a tree. Like the World Tree imagery. People talk about the World Tree—that was usually what the shamans used to travels the worlds. So yeah, you follow the path to where you're trying to go. You imagine it, you visualize it, and you visualize yourself walking in those directions, and eventually you cross a threshold, be it a doorway, an archway, the pearly gates into heaven. I like to use the analogy of Jack and the bean stalk. Like Jack climbed a beanstalk, all the way up into the clouds, and then Jack climbed through a cloud, and when he came out on the other side of the cloud, he was in a different world. He could stand on the cloud, and there was like castles and geese that laid golden eggs, and all these things. So there's usually a threshold. And when you cross that threshold and enter the spirit world, is usually when your imagination sort of isn't… It's no longer like… Something will happen, like Spirit will interact with you in some way… That you'll sit there and go, “Okay, I'm in the spirit world now, because there's no way I would have dreamed this up.” You know, your imagination only takes you so far. Our imagination only has so much in terms of creativity, in these moments, that when you step into the spirit world, something will happen with the environment, with you know, an animal or something that's gonna be so weird, that you go, “Okay, I'm here. I'm with spirit now, because there's no way my imagination would have done this.” So it's hard to explain, but that's how it feels. It's like, yeah, I didn't imagine that. So I know that something's happening. That's usually the indicators for when you're in the spirit world. So Spirit lets you know, “Okay, you're here, let me show you this weird thing so you know you're here.” It's almost like lucid dreaming, where something weird happens and you're like “Oh, I think I'm dreaming!” Something different, like an indicator. So basically, in a nut shell, that's shamanic journeying! (laughs) Yeah, interesting! Do you remember your first one? That's a really good question… I don't know if I remember my first one. Yeah… I was doing it so much, just trying to map out my worlds, and where all my guides were. That time, just meeting my spirit guides, I don't remember what my first one was. I know it was profound, because I went back! Again and again! I don't remember what it was that made it special or profound. Okay. So you did mention the Mystery School. Is it Neo-Tantra? Is that how you say it? I mentioned Michael Harner's foundation of shamanic studies. They offer training, like two or three year apprenticeship for shamanic studies. I just want to throw a plug out there: it is a foundation that, when people do go and pay for their programs, the money does go to indigenous cultures, and to indigenous shamans, to help keep all these shamanic practices alive, different cultures in the world. I just want to say that because it is important, something that we need to do. But yeah, I do belong to a mystery school! Yeah, what is that? What does that mean? I belong to a mystery school that's called the International School of Temple Arts. I am a faculty for the International School of Temple Arts, or ISTA for short. And we are a… Hm. It's like defining who we are is always a changing thing. Yeah, we operate within the realm of sacred sexuality, and do utilize elements of tantra, taoist teachings, shamanism, Buddhism, and so many other spiritual practices into one melting pot of things. And really, it is about uncovering you know, the mystery of what it means to be here, in this life. The mystery of life. The mystery of love. The mystery of sexuality. The mystery of the divine, the mystery of Source. Where everybody came from. You know, what is God? Like, the Native American tribes referred to God, or, you know, as the Great Mystery. It's a mystery. The Divine is a mystery. So we're a Mystery School that delves into these deep things. Like delving into Shadow—shadow work. Delving into darkness and light, and really all that it means to be human, and spiritual, and sexual. So while people wanted to classify us as tantra, because we fell into the Neo-tantric umbrella where people think of sacred sexuality in that way. While we adhere to some tantric practices like sound, breath, and movement, and many of our teachers are tantra teachers as well, that's not effectively who we are. So we started coining the term Sexual Shamanism. So what we do is sexual shamanism, which is different than tantra, because it's a different flavor. Like tantra comes from India, and has this rich tradition, which… There is a lot of cultural appropriation, and spiritual appropriation that has happened, within Neo-tantra communities, and even within ISTA where we've taken things from the tantra traditions of India, and we've utilized them and changed them, and you know, adapted them to what we do. But yeah, so we basically call it sexual shamanism. And again, it's difficult to explain in a short period of time because so much of it is a mystery, because it's so different for everybody that comes to our trainings. Do you do like, one-on-one, or are there group classes, or is it mostly individual? Yeah, we do group offers. For the most part, we do trainings. We do week-long intensives. The first… We'll call it the starting point, the level one, is called the Spiritual Sexual Shamanic Experience. And so I facilitate those trainings. And this experience is… Even though we have a core curriculum, everybody that goes through it experiences something different, because everybody is on their own journey. And you know, we have a feeling, or a sense, or a belief that everybody that comes to our trainings gets exactly what they need. So it has that shamanic feel, that for some people, they get some things like where… They open up sexually in ways that they didn't know they could. Other people receive healing from trauma. Other people just go deeper into their own spiritual practice. Other people basically develop a stronger sense of self and identity. And yeah, the primary core of the level one has to do with sovereignty, personal sovereignty and self-empowerment. So that looks different to everybody that comes. So there's this level one, which is about self-empowerment, then there's other trainings. One that's being renamed into Soul Initiation. We used to call it the level two, and it used to be called the Spiritual Sexual Shamanic Initiation, Level Two. So the first is the experience, the second is the initiation. Now we're taking the “level two” part of it out, and just calling it a Soul Initiation, I believe—the name is still being worked out. Because, too many people felt like… You know, in our Western culture, we have you know, first grade, second grade, third grade. So people thought “I'm gonna do level one, then I'm gonna do level two.” like a progression. And it's not like that. It's two separate things that aren't linear. It's about the self, or it's about killing the ego. And really going into deeper initiations: death initiations, sexual rebirth initiations… So it's a totally different thing. And then there are other trainings that are… There's another one that has to do with really… The core teaching of it is disillusionment, and being disillusioned with the mystery school, with ISTA, with everything. Being disillusioned with things in a way that if everything is falling apart around you, can you still hold your center? Can you still hold your ground? Can you still stay grounded with who you are, in your mission in life, in your purpose, and continuing to do what you're here to do, even as everything else is falling apart around you? Even as the world is collapsing in on you, know you can do this. “I'm gonna go change the world!” There's gonna be that push-back, like “No, this is radically different, this is bad, you can't do this” because of the old belief systems. How can you sit there in the fire and still hold your center and continue plodding forth? So that training is that piece. And then we have the practitioner training, which is really becoming a healer, a sexual healer, within the frameworks and teachings of what we do, within ISTA, that framework and philosophy of healing. Yeah. How was the transition from, you said you were a mental health counselor, then you started going the shaman route… Like, was it kinda gradual, or did you make an abrupt switch? What did that look like? Well it was a gradual thing. I continued to work, I continued to work at my job while I was an apprentice at ISTA, working toward becoming an ISTA faculty as I learned and healed and worked in the field, in all these trainings. And then it just got to a point where… I reached a point of no return, where my soul just felt like I couldn't be in my job anymore. I couldn't continue to do that work. I needed to leave that job so that I could follow a path that's more soul-aligned. Right. I think my job was definitely soul-aligned for that period of my life, you know, healing and helping all these kids in needs, where I was saving lives. I did save a lot of lives. I have a lot of love for the kids I worked with, and that population. I feel like at some point I'm gonna go back and do more work with that population somehow. I just don't know how or when. But yeah, when I was at my office, even though I was doing good work, I felt stifled and trapped, and I just knew my soul was like, no you need to do something else, something bigger, something grander, something beyond this. And so that's what I'm doing now. I'm out creating events, I'm a training organizer. I organize trainings and events for other teachers and other people. I was organizing for ISTA, so I would help bring ISTA trainings to different places as an organizer. And I'm an ISTA faculty, and I'm teaching the ISTA Level One. So above and beyond that, I'm feeling a call to be a shamanic counselor. I don't know what else to call it. Open myself up to seeing people individually, one-on-one, which would be a variation of coaching, and counseling, therapy, and shamanic work, as well as healing work if needed. Be it Reiki, or even body work, like I did complete the ISTA practitioner training and I have skills in different healing modalities. So it's whatever is needed. That's what I'm doing now. Okay, nice. Wow… I feel like I need to just take all of that in for a second. Thank you for sharing all of that. Wow. I feel like the last questions I wrote seem kinda silly, like “Okay, what are some of your hobbies?” (laughs) But yeah I guess, kinda related to hobbies… It does seem like the work you do is very deep. I would guess that it might be very draining, too. Like, how do you… You did mention light reading. How do you balance that? How do you not take that home with you, you know? Well, I mean, I would say that part of it is that I use tools to help release things… Release energies, stuck energies within me. Tools that I teach at ISTA for example, as well as other tools that my beloved has been teaching me as well. So we work together in different ways to help release things. There's times I have to come home and just have decompression periods where I need to just sit and relax… That's basically it. I do need some down time. But yeah, I don't know. It's not like really… I don't know, I think I do push myself a little bit more than I should, but a lot of times it's something that I love doing, so then I'm like, “Yeah, let's do it!” Yeah! All right, let's see… What are some things that you're looking forward to in the near future? The near future? Yeah! Wow… There's a few things that I'm really excited about. I mean obviously, one is I'm gonna be… I'm working on an oracle deck. Yeah, and I have a friend of mine that's doing the artwork for it. Okay! I'm like, in my second edit of the description of all the cards and everything. So I feel like pretty soon I'm gonna see about getting it published, or do self-publishing. I don't know how it's gonna go yet, but that's something I'm excited about! In a little bit over a week, on the 24th [of April], I fly out to California. I'm gonna be teaching ISTA out in Northern California. Where specifically? I don't know the name of the venue, but it's about an hour and a half from San Francisco. North or south? North. Okay. I actually grew up an hour south of San Francisco. Yeah, so I'm gonna be out there teaching ISTA. Cool! And then… Something else that I'm really excited about, in June, I have a training up here in upstate New York called the Shamanic Kink Immersion that I'm organizing, and assisting, and being a part of. So that's up here in upstate New York. So I'm excited to organize and help create this event. And then, in July, at the same place in upstate New York, I'm gonna be teaching another ISTA training. Okay! So yeah! If your viewers want to come meet me in person, they can come to upstate New York, and yeah, get a taste! (laughs) Yeah, that's great! That does sound pretty exciting! Cool, well those are all the questions I have! That was so much. So much really interesting stuff. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about that I didn't ask about? Talk about… Um… I'm not sure. You know, to come around full circle to this originally being an interview about gamers and people my age that play video games… Well it's not just that. I wanted to just interview older, interesting women doing interesting things. Yeah. So definitely yeah, I'm excited for the new Diablo game that's coming out soon. I'm excited for the Baldur's Gate III game that's coming out in August. So the makers of Dragon Age, many years ago, created Baldur's Gate I and II for PC, like twenty years ago. And now, there's a new Baldur's Gate III coming out. And what I really love about it, besides the fact that it has beautiful graphics, great storytelling… I mean so much of it is impressive… The artistry of it is incredible, and the storytelling… It's that the makers, Larian Studios, are actually doing everything in their power to make the game as close to Dungeons and Dragons 5E core rules. And to make the game feel like it's a tabletop role-playing game, even though you're playing a video game. Huh! So their goal is to make it feel like you're immersed in a tabletop game, not just playing a video game. So it's really incredible. Really, the storytelling… The way it's done, like if you're playing a tabletop role-playing game, when you do checks and abilities, it actually shows a little box where a twenty-sided die rolls, or you know, six-sided dice rolls, to really see if you're successful in your actions. And then, you can play multi-player with friends, too, so you can go on campaigns with three or four of your friends. Right now it's only in early-access, but the new game is coming out, and I'm super excited for that! Yeah, cool! Sounds good! So that's the other things I'm excited about! Upcoming video games. Yeah, nice! Cool. Well yeah, thank you so much! This was a really great interview. Thanks for sharing so much of your story. Thank you! Yeah, until I put up my own website, which I'm working on at this moment, people can find my profile on the ISTA website, which is ista.life. You can find all the trainings, and all the faculty, and I have a profile there. I have my own website for the trainings I'm organizing that also has some information about me, which neistatrainings.com. So that's the simplest way to find me. Find me on Facebook, you know, find me on Instagram. Yeah, what's your Instagram username? I think it's my full name. I'm on my phone right now… It's yeah, @javi_martinez_stahl.

What are the stories and motivations behind our local bike shops and those who run them? In this first of a series of conversations we'll be having on this topic, Katya Morzhueva joins Randall to share how she went from growing up in Siberia, to traveling the world (including an eventful stint in China), to founding Cool Cat Cycles and leading group rides in her chosen home of Katy, Texas. Katya's is a story of curiousity, compassion, resiliency, and service to others, and is exemplary of transformative energy that the best shops bring to their local communities. Visit Katya and Cool Cat Cycles at 22010 Westheimer Pkwy in Katy, TX. Episode Sponsor: Dynamic Cyclist (code THEGRAVELRIDE for 15% off) Web: www.coolcatcycles.com Instagram: @coolcatcycles Facebook: @coolcatcycles Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos:     [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the broadcast, I'm going to hand the microphone over to my co-host Randall Jacobs. Who's got Katia Morris waver from cool cat cycles in Katy, Texas on the show to talk about the community she's building around the shop and leading group rides in her hometown. Before we jump in, I need to thank this week. Sponsor, dynamic cyclist. As you know, I've been working with a dynamic cyclist stretching routines for a couple of months now working on increasing my mobility and support of strengthening my lower back. Dynamic cyclist has hundreds of cycling, specific stretching routines for you to work through, including some very specific injury prevention routines. I myself am working on the low back injury prevention routine right now. The team at dynamic cyclists has a free trial for all their programs. So head on over to dynamic cyclists.com and check out what they have to offer. Additionally for podcast listeners using the code, the gravel ride. You'll get 15% off all programs. They have both a monthly membership model as well as an inexpensive annual model to cover all your stretching. And strength training needs again, that's dynamic cyclists.com and the coupon code, the gravel ride. Would that business behind us? Let's hand the microphone off to my co-host Randall Jacobs. [00:01:52] Randall: What are the stories behind our local bike shops and those who run them. In the first of a series of conversations we'll be having on this topic, Katia Morzhueva joins me to share how she went from growing up in Siberia, to traveling the world, including an eventful stint in China that we'll get into in a moment, to founding Cool Cat Cycles and leading group rides in your chosen home of Katy, Texas. Katia is a story of curiosity, compassion, resiliency, and service to others, and is exemplary of the transformative energy that the best shops bring to their local communities. We dive right in here. So I hope you enjoyed the conversation. And now we bring to you Katia Morzhueva. [00:02:28] Randall: Do you have like a meditation practice [00:02:30] katya: uh, you know, we can talk about this a little bit more if we start talking about my injury in China. Cuz when you are alone with a broken back, nobody to talk to because you don't speak the language. All you can do is meditate. You know, I, in a, in a irony, like black humor sort of way, a good way to lose weight and become a Buddhist is break a back in a foreign country. [00:03:00] Randall: I'm fortunate in that I had a somewhat parallel experience of breaking my neck in China, I was a bike touring through Hine Island in the South China Sea, but I had zero dislocation. I just ripped a process off a C3 through C five and I was in a neck brace, for a few days and then I saw a specialist and they're like, yeah, you're probably more likely to injure yourself due to muscle atrophy than, to aggravate the injury. And so I was back on my bike in two weeks, which is a very different thing. [00:03:29] katya: Yes, [00:03:29] Randall: so I had version of that Yeah. I'm seeing you shared this picture of your spine with a bunch of rods and pins holding what looks like some of your upper lumbar, [00:03:42] katya: Five vertebrae. Yeah, it's T 12 to T nine. [00:03:47] Randall: Yeah [00:03:48] katya: right. Um, yeah, so I have two plates and 10 screws they're holding five vertu bread together, but it's only one that shattered. So one, actually, the piece fell off and they went in to connect T 12 to 10 and to nine, but then, um, a T 11 to 10. But then the, he was not happy with the result of the surgery, my surgeon. he came back and he said, you want to be active in the future, we want to go back in, redo the surgery, but we will have to connect more vertebrae. And he gave me like half a day to think about it I just went ahead with it. So they went in again, um, you know, 12 hour surgery again, and now I'm like a myoni woman, [00:04:45] Randall: Uh, well, let's, so let's, let's take a step back and kind of talk about how we ended up having this conversation. So um, I think Craig and I had put out word in the ridership looking for, um, you know, recommendations from the community on a guest. And one of the members, uh, had reached out and be like, you have to talk to Kaia. She does, uh, a, you know, an outstanding job building community, uh, in your community out there in, uh, uh, what part of Texas is this? Remind me. [00:05:15] katya: Um, we are west of Houston. We're about 20 miles west of Houston and Katy. [00:05:21] Randall: Yeah. And I had seen, uh, some of the rides that you organize. You have a beautiful shop that you've started, um, you are of Russian descent. Spent some time in, uh, living in China. Uh, really just a fascinating story and a lot of kind of values and ethos, alignments around community and so on. So, where do we start? Where do we want to kick off? [00:05:44] katya: Whew. Um, well, I think we're wanna start in 2016 when we moved back to Houston from China, [00:05:57] Randall: Uhhuh [00:05:57] katya: because that was, um, that was a pivotal moment when decided to get into a business ownership and open a local bike shop, [00:06:08] Randall: this is you and, [00:06:10] katya: And it's me and my husband. Um, we traveled a lot with oil and gas. We both were in oil and gas. Uh, and when we moved back here, um, the community where we are has a lot of potential and there was no bike shop to work with that potential. Um, and I, you know, I would be riding my bike everywhere. Uh, we ended up, Even though we have a child who ended up having only one car, which is very unusual. Um, and as I was commuting everywhere by bike, uh, or I would be working and taking the car and Robert would be riding around everywhere and my son could ride to school. we found out that there's nowhere for us to go is bike commuters, just to get basic service, to get a rack and piners that would fit my bike. Um, and there was a little, you know, there are a couple of places that I thought wouldn't it be nice to have a bike shop right here? Cause I would bike pasted it all the time on my commune and yeah, just come to thousand 17, we opened a shop [00:07:15] Randall: That's, uh, so you, so have you always been avid cyclists, you and your husband? [00:07:21] katya: Uh, no. Uh, but I was, I was always. Not a human powered commuter. my first car, um, I got my first car, I was 30 years old. Uh, and before, before that I lived in about six countries as a resident with oil and gas. I was born in Russia. Um, you know, for my first 20 years of life, I spent as, as a pedestrian walking, using public transportation. Um, even though family had, we had one car, I never used it. Um, and then, you know, Australia, Dubai, New Zealand, uh, traveling all over Europe, never felt like I needed a car. And then we moved to Houston and the reality hits you here and it's just so shocking because I think Houston is epitome or Texas of car dependency in, in America. And it was such a shock to my system and I think largely, Um, that formed me as, as almost an American. I'm an American who doesn't have a car. [00:08:30] Randall: Yeah. It's, uh, all too common for the cities here to have been built. Uh, especially the further west you go around automobiles is the primary way of getting around you. Some places you can't even cross the street cuz it's lanes and there's a fence in the middle. a lot of cities were built, at a time when the automobile was already present versus older European Asian cities where, it's much more walking or horse path oriented. Uh, so, so yeah, it is, uh, something that fortunately cities are, a lot of cities are starting to. backfill, uh, human-centered, uh, transportation infrastructure, uh, and bike lanes and things like this. But, uh, my understanding is that Houston is tough for infrastructure and also for weather. [00:09:13] katya: hmm. Well, you know, in my firm belief, uh, I was born in Siberia, so Siberia is not too far from Polar Circle. Um, in, my opinion, you can ride all year around here. actually if you look, um, at professional cyclists in the US, quite a few of them come from Texas. Um, so Emily Newsom, um, she was raised in Tour de France this year. She's from Fort Worth, that's Dallas. Um, a bunch of people like Beon, MCCA, McCan, they are from, uh, hill country, like Austin area. So, um, I think. The heat of Texas is underestimated. I realized that when we actually moved here, cuz we came from Dubai in summer and we arrived in in August and the second day we went to Zoo and, and everybody was telling us that we were crazy to go to the Zoo Park in August. We're the only people there with a two year old and tow. But we came from the desert and this felt amazing. It actually cools off from a hundred degrees to 98 at night. , is relative. Uh, one thing that you learn when you travel and when you leave is anat in many countries. It all depends on your frame framework. [00:10:37] Randall: And so, uh, you mentioned some of the countries you've been an expat in this. Was this all working with [00:10:43] katya: With oil and gas, yes. In the same company. My husband and I, we met in Neighbors Drilling International. It was the biggest land drilling contractor in the world. I was their first Russian employee working for them in a Russian, in the territory of Russia. But I'm a linguist. I'm not AUM engineer. I have masters and linguistics. [00:11:01] Randall: Oh, interesting. So how many languages do you have? [00:11:04] katya: Uh, I studied a bunch of dead ones. [00:11:07] Randall: Okay [00:11:08] katya: like you have to, uh, ladin an old Greek old Russian old English. Um, I speak English and Russian. Russian is my native. Um, . I speak French a little bit if I, I studied it in college, but it's been such a long time since I actually spoke French. But I think I will pick up pretty fast. I said at Mandarin in China. [00:11:29] Randall: Uhhuh. [00:11:30] katya: Um, I found Mandarin and writing to be extremely interesting. and I would recommend everybody to go and look it up. find that it's like plain Lego where you have a couple of bricks, well, a lot of bricks, and you can build anything you want if you know how to combine those bricks together. It's so interesting. Um, great intellectual challenge. I could not speak Mandarin because I could not understand the tones. Even though I play piano and I have musical ear, I should be able to, I could not, I was never understood. I would go to the market in Dion and try to say that I, I want to buy this, or this is my name and nobody would understand what I'm saying. I know I'm saying it correctly if I was to write it in, transcribe it in in Pinine, [00:12:19] Randall: Yep. [00:12:20] katya: but nobody could understand what I'm saying. [00:12:22] Randall: Well, and there's a certain, um, certainly coming from an English background, there were a lot of sound. Oh, there were a few sounds that we don't have in English. . So getting those mastered was critical cuz the subtlety is, is a critical piece. And then you have the tones and then you have the way that the tones relative to each other. So um, you know, it's really easy to call out a non-native, native speaker because even if they get the tones right, generally they, we, um, you know, the, they won't have the musicality of a native speaker. Um, it was something I had to pay a lot of attention to, [00:12:54] katya: How did you, I know you, you speak Mandarin, right? Or Cantonese. [00:12:59] Randall: uh, I speak Mandarin, uh, fairly fluently and then enough Cantonese to, you know, convince uh, somebody that I speak Cantonese before I switch to Mandarin. [00:13:09] katya: Okay. How long did it take you to capture the tones? [00:13:13] Randall: Uh, I, Hmm. Um, I would say it was like my second trip. So I was, I taught there for a semester as an undergrad, and then I went and studied for a semester at a university, uh, junction University in Guang Jo, for one semester, and really paid attention to tones and got a, a, a firm foundation in grammar and so on at that time. Uh, and so, you know, that made me very aware and I would constantly ask if I got the tones right or check the tones. I had a I act actually let my little pocket dictionary over there, uh, that I would have with me at all times. And so I was, I had to be very intentional about it, but once I got the hang of it, I, it, it was very natural. So for the most part, you know, uh, my tones are pretty good. Like I can order, I can order food over the phone and then show up and they're looking for a Chinese person, [00:14:08] katya: Oh that's amazing Yes Congratulations Uh um my my dissertation and my specialty in college uh was to teach Russian as a foreign language to grad students and freshmen who come to college in Russia to get their degree in Russia but they would come from foreign countries um I have so much appreciation for anybody who can at adult age capture a foreign language you know acquire it to an extent that they can actually freely communicate [00:14:43] Randall: And yet so many people, uh, especially here in the us, uh, do that. There's, know, they don't get credit. It's more like, you know, why, why do you have an accent? Is kind of the response that is often, you know, that people often get and uh, I, having gone through that journey myself, I definitely have a lot of respect. And from what I hear, Russian is especially difficult to learn because of the number of tenses and things of this [00:15:12] katya: Yes Russian is pretty hard Um but I would recommend if you ever wanted to to just immerse yourself and um you'll get it It's hard to learn it on your own for sure uh I assume mentoring would be the same if you just try to use dual lingo [00:15:31] Randall: The uh, the, the grammar of Mandarin is really easy and that helps a lot. So I found it easier than Spanish. [00:15:38] katya: Oh yes But just being able to converse [00:15:40] Randall: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, okay, so you had a background in linguistics and teaching, uh, Russian to foreigners. Um and then you went into the oil and gas industry, traveled around the world husband ended up in, outside of Houston, Texas, and you have this idea to start a bike shop. So let's what what, is that journey like? Like what was your analysis? Uh, like what has, what has it been like actually running a small business and dealing with the, the ups and downs and the, the risks and the vendors and all this other, [00:16:12] katya: Yes Um well we definitely had no idea what we were getting ourselves into I just had this dream so need to back off back off a little bit and explain Um so you know coming first I arrived in Houston in 2010 and I saw this as an extremely car-centric community society city with no real urban planning Um and then you know then I would go to China Then I returned in 2016 and we moved to a completely different area and suddenly I realized that there are a lot of bikeways here Uh the bikeways were built by um well some are shared use pathways so they're like extended sidewalks uh you can say And some are actual bikeways that follow the bayou So as you know Houston floods this area floods everybody remembers Harvey We have a diversion channel system to remove the water um into the Gulf And uh this neighborhood is crisscross but a lot of bayou e and it's Bayou uh has easements So they actually own the land around the bayou So imagine that this channels uh that Water grass a lot of land and the local management of this channels will afford drainage district are run by wonderful people who understand the value of investing back in the community So they have realized with the help of some bike advocates cuz none of the board members actually ride bikes or not much but they have realized that there's a huge value in investing into bikeways along these channels So all of this community has about 30 miles of bike trails just through our little you know there's about 7,000 homes here So it's not huge and the amount of bikeways per square mile is pretty impressive Uh every kid can bike to elementary school here so with middle and high school it's a little bit more longer to commute But every kid can get to school by bike walk or on a scooter When we came here it's pretty impressive And there's about five elementary schools here but when we came in 2016 I was shocked how empty those paths are Just made me really sad I would be the only person riding around you know to local grocery store or very few other people There maybe were other people I could never see many Um there were a bunch of kids who would go to school but also even now you know we have the streets that are full of carpool parents people who said for 30 minutes and they only have to cross from one street to the other that would do have infrastructure to support their kids bike into school So it just made me really sad And then I thought you know believe there was a bike shop and they they could do some advocacy They could maybe you know help the community to realize the potential that they have to see that this investment is done for them to improve their life quality um and to you know reduce carbon monoxide pollution It's that simple Right Um and We had the resources to do it So you know we started to look around and we thought well let's try So right We opened the shop we get all the wholesalers on board And then um and then it became very interesting because um one thing I did not realize you know speaking of being woman in the in the industry think I had a blind spot for any um like uh misconception about what women can do Uh because you know coming from Russia Russian women deal with uh slightly different issues In the World War ii huge population of Russian men was um just disappeared as victims of war and Russian women had to carry the economy essentially on their shoulders We had female sks we had women factory directors we had female drivers like women could always do everything Uh my mother is a doctor Super typical Um you know there was never an issue that oh well she's a woman and she will have a harder time going to school or whatever my grandmothers have college education Um it was never even a question Um you know working in oil and gas as well I have never felt um that I'm less then Amen And then here ran in a local bike shop in Texas opened my eyes towards some of the biases that are out there And I remember just not even recognizing that and I would just think oh well that was strange interaction which has just happened But I wouldn't have somebody from here And it typically would be a man some of my friends And she would come and say oh you know they talk to you like that because you're a woman So first of all they think you don't know anything Uh they probably make an assumption that you are $8 an hour who just comes here to say hi Bye [00:21:17] Randall: Mm-hmm. [00:21:18] katya: And we're a very small shop So initially when we opened it was May and my tech uh Michael who is African American and an Eastern European woman and we are running a bike shop in a suburb of Houston [00:21:35] Randall: Text [00:21:36] katya: So you can only imagine Uh but know despite all that I think we brought um so much interesting um so many interesting characteristics like from our our personalities and backgrounds that it it works out [00:21:55] Randall: So what has been the, uh, the learning curve as you've been both preneur and in terms of, you know, maybe specifics to the industry or the machine? [00:22:03] katya: Oh gosh Well I'm trying to be positive and all I'm seeing is a Potential for um and I think you know honestly COVID has opened a lot of people's eyes to what's possible when uh you don't have to commute long hours in traffic to work and you can work from home and what's possible um for a local Environments to be built more human centered Uh so many cities in Europe uh have um revamped their urban planning and even here in the US I see potential with electric bikes Um I really hope that understanding of climate change and the human impact in on climate will help as well So in terms of bike commute I see a lot of potential with sports and bi bi cycling is a sport It's a little bit different story This is where I see gravel is playing a huge role [00:23:08] Randall: Mm-hmm [00:23:08] katya: um and adventure by bike Um and that I think is [00:23:14] Randall: with you there. [00:23:15] katya: right and I think that's something that not just I learned as you know as we went into the business I think everybody figured that out in the industry that this is kind of where we're heading uh for um in terms of know just running a small business uh in this part of of um the us mean it's what it is You learn the skills You you you know you help you try to stay positive uh you try to work with community Um yeah it's it's been quite a journey [00:23:52] Randall: So talk about, um, some of the, like what do you carry, what type of shop, and then how have you gotten the word out and how do you engage with the community where you are? [00:24:01] katya: Ryan So we started the idea was to have a community centered shop to help people quote unquote to get out on bikes our initial focus was mostly bike commute so we were the kind of shop that always carried bunch of cruisers step throughs uh single speeds racks fenders commuter backs veneers Cute helmets um you know a bunch of gear for commuters And then we have evolved a lot uh with gravel uh with all I was a roadie even before I opened the shop Um I actually started psych I was in track and field in school and then my knees just started to get really bad when I was In like late twenties I couldn't run as much Um so I you know I had miles and I would ride with him in the trailer and like try to fight the roadies on the local loop with my cruiser bike and a kid and a trainer then I thought well maybe it's time for me to get an actual road bike So I started you know I love the fitness aspect of Cyclone for sure but roads here are pretty unsafe Uh where we are in in our little pocket in It's tolerable You can actually I don't mind doing solo 20 30 mile ride out here with uh a good portion of it being in traffic you can only do it on certain times of the day only uncertain roads The rest of the roads are just so crazy fast and dangerous Uh but we have a gravel levy two miles from the shop you can go there 24 hours Uh it's always empty You will see a bunch of deer very few people You're totally safe And uh we started to train out there uh and then we introduced a bunch of people to the levee and now we have rides out there But my true gravel rides are about an hour from here in the car we drive out in the country And that's when you have your hundreds and hundreds of miles of gravel [00:26:05] Randall: Got it. Very, very cool. [00:26:07] katya: So yeah it it has moved a little bit and then bike packing you know that kind of jumped on board Natural progression I do feel like if you have a gravel bike and then tell it to my customers who come to get a bike and say well think you only wanna do 20 miles of this little gravel path over here but look at this this is what you could do And we have this big photographs of backpacking trips on the walls so people can see and hopefully get inspired and you know and go to one of our cuz we do this beginner backpacking trips I have one coming up this weekend by the way [00:26:39] Randall: Oh, no kidding. [00:26:40] katya: Yeah Mm [00:26:41] Randall: That's great. And it is part, um, so I'm fully on board with you. I've been, I mean, gravel bikes have existed in, in other forms. For a long time people were riding road bikes with 23 roads, long before there was something called a gravel bike. And people have been bike packing since before it was called bike [00:26:59] katya: Mm-hmm [00:27:00] Randall: but the fact that there's this focus on making versatile machines that can, you know, really tackle a variety of road surfaces and have mounting points for different gear and so on, just makes it so well, why not get a machine that can do a lot more? And then it just begs the question, and why don't you get out there and have some of these experiences? And there's a, a lot of people who do good work. So, so having, having a group activity, like what you're putting on, I would imagine just radically reduces the barrier to entry for a lot of people. [00:27:31] katya: Hmm You know I remember uh when I got my first road bike and in general and in it's gonna be a little bit philosophical but me cycling became an entry into society here when we moved from Dubai That was in 2010 when we first arrived in Texas in Houston and I didn't know anybody Um it is people are super friendly here and it's very international and you do start making friends very quickly And you know I had a kid um so you know making friends with other parents was relatively easy but I didn't I wasn't here long enough to start going to school or to get a job I was still uh getting my green card then And I met so many people through recycling My best friends here in Houston were all mad through recycling group but I remember that when I got my bike I was still really shy I didn't know anyone and I ride alone I would ride every single day by myself or have a kid and tow or have you know a babysitter looking or my husband looking o after him And I would go and do loops by myself in the same time just as a way to stay fit And I did that for about a year before I was brave enough to join in a group And I remember I was Intimidated uh when you're a beginner and and you and you don't you don't know if you're gonna be safe out there and you don't know if you're gonna act right and you gonna you know say right things especially you know my language is improving hopefully but you know it's so far from where it could be and just being so anxious about it And then all the friends that I made through cycling were so friendly so helpful I think that experience allows me to be that helpful and friendly face in the shop when I have somebody who comes in and these are my favorite customers my favorite person in the shop is someone who wants to get into biking Maybe they want to get their first bike or maybe they want to start biking for groceries or to work uh because I know what they experience And as someone who taught in college I know how to break down activities into steps so I can just really kind of micromanage their entry Uh I do beginner road rides where anybody's welcome on bike We will talk about what hand to use how to ride together in a group how not to bump into each other how to act with traffic What is the safest road to ride I just love helping people in that way because you never know where are they gonna end up Maybe they're gonna be like me and open a bike shop years later [00:30:27] Randall: It's, I, I can't tell you how many examples, uh, including my own, uh, of people who have used the bicycle. As you know, I, I've said many times on this podcast a vehicle for connection. And so like, you know, I, the, the, the thing that I recall, like the first thing I recall being able to do on my own pretty much at any time for extended periods and really enjoy my own company, was riding a bicycle. the rolling meditation part of it. The going out and exploring a place from a different vantage point. Like if wherever you live, you're going to experience it very differently on a bicycle, especially a bicycle that you can take off and explore the back trails and parks and the roads that you don't take, cuz it's not the direct line between any A and b. and then the community element of it. You know, rolling up next to somebody, striking up a conversation, going to your first group ride, you know, showing up in jorts in a, in an old helmet and a bike that's falling apart and whatever. And then slowly like learning the ropes and going through that, that rite of passage. Uh, and then I also resonate very much with, um, the opportunity for folks like ourselves who've kind of gone through a lot of that journey to just make it easier for others, you know, reduce the, the friction, make it so that there's educational materials, make it so that there are rides that are accessible. Make it so that there's content like this conversations where people can hear like, oh, I'm, I'm. Uh, unique in my slight awkwardness in getting into this. Um, you know, even the, the people that seem all put together and the cool kids on the bikes were, uh, well, I'll speak for myself. I was definitely, definitely a socially awkward awkward in general when I first started riding. And, um, very much the bike has been kind of a, a, a means of, uh, I mean career, uh, relationships all around the world, uh, opportunities and so on. And even if you don't take this extreme path or taking, you know, starting a bike shop, um, just the friendships that, you get cultivated or like the, the healthy habits that get developed, the reduced stress and how that impacts one's entire life. [00:32:43] katya: Well and you know with going back to how we may appear all put together on our rides um I when I first meet people who are interested in something like a gravel rod like say they're roadies and they're hear about gravel rods but they're not sure if they have the skills or if they can tackle this you know climb and the ground under you shifting all the time and you're sleeping And I always say look uh when I broke my back I was still I was told I'll never get a bike again And I was told that if I can I should not And with all this screws that I have in there I'm still out there you know and I'm 42 year old mother and I'm riding bikes and I'm doing this you know crazy adventures My next trace is 280 miles [00:33:37] Randall: All in one [00:33:39] katya: Oh in one go Yeah It's it's an ultra bike fucking thing Shout out to bikes or Death it East Texas Showdown [00:33:47] Randall: All right. When is this? [00:33:49] katya: I uh I'm a month from now so I've been geeking out on tires and setups but I've done that before though it's not my first show so [00:33:58] Randall: of course. Well, well bravo on that. You definitely, I've never done a ride that long. Longest I've ever done was, uh, a 300 k ride when I was, uh, training in Europe for a couple of weeks. And, uh, that was the hardest day I've ever put in the saddle. So [00:34:14] katya: 300 K That would be about 200 miles [00:34:17] Randall: yeah, a hundred. And I think it ended up being like 188 or 189 miles. Um, 180 6 I think is, is 200, 300 K [00:34:26] katya: or off road [00:34:27] Randall: road. [00:34:28] katya: Yeah [00:34:29] Randall: Yeah. So very different animal right Road is easier. Even with the mountain passes road is definitely easier to cut. And I was in a, I was in a Peloton with a bunch of other fast riders and we were like, you know, so I was, I got carried through certain sections. I mean, had to do the climbs, but on the, on the flats we were doing 25 and I was probably putting out 150 watts and just kind of cruising. [00:34:50] katya: We'll be doing 12 [00:34:52] Randall: Yeah. [00:34:53] katya: miles an hour It's off road or 70% offroad [00:34:58] Randall: That's awesome. Very, very cool. [00:35:01] katya: So if I can do it anyone can [00:35:04] Randall: Well, and so I also, I didn't appreciate, this at all. When, um, you know, when, when I first reached out, I only knew about a little bit about your background, um, and, uh, that you had this shop that was very community focused, but, you know, you spent, so you broke your back cycling in China. That's not the, the full extent of your, your China story. So especially as someone who spent so much time there myself, I want to hear more about how'd you end up there? Uh, you were working at, with, for an orphanage there as well. [00:35:37] katya: Uh yeah So with China it was the the time when my husband was still fully involved in oil and gas and um he was Offered an opportunity to manage a huge huge project in Dion that's just across from South Korea On on the Sea Uh there's several massive shipyards so whatever we receive over here a lot of that stuff when it comes from China it comes from Dion or that area generically It's about two hour flight north from Beijing And um yeah we all decided to go So um I was going to school here but I you know I said you know that's such an awesome opportunity to discover that part of Asia I haven't been there before and it's very close to Russia as well So uh we moved and um yes I ended up um I was cycling there ended up hurting myself really bad about a month in South Korea Um my injury quite extensive so I had to be Placed uh in a jet and taken over to Samsung Medical Center in in Seoul for spinal surgeries Um it was easier from Dian It was easier to go to se than to Beijing for the style of surgery that I had because it was faster and I had collapsed lung so I couldn't be on the plane for a long time as well So they needed to move me somewhere where it's close and uh good quality of healthcare [00:37:11] Randall: Mm-hmm [00:37:11] katya: And yeah Seoul was the closest place where they took me And when I returned from so I spent about a month my son and my husband were in China I was in Korea uh in the hospital for about a month Uh then I moved back when I was allowed to walk Um and when I arrived in Darlin I thought well I can't ride my bike uh and I can't I I can't really go anywhere far Um what am I going to do And there was a community Now Dion is not very well known among Westerners most of expats who go to that part of China are Chinese or Cor uh Japanese or Korean So I was surrounded by um awesome awesome families from Japan and Korea We made a lot of friends especially if we could speak Yeah if they knew a little bit of English that would help Um but yeah there were not very many expats at all So I tried to like find myself in that community And there was a little group of women who were going to a local orphanage uh just to help out Um cuz the orphanage was understaffed It's a public orphanage I don't know the number the name Just kind of know where it's located I could not ever read exactly what it said and then I so I would come and I would just help help the nurses help Daise to take care of little kids then I heard that they this orphanage was selected to participate in an program where older kids so age seven and up uh would possibly go to the US and would be possibly adopted in the US at that old I think the limit is 15 years old So between wanna say between seven and two 15 that age group I suggested you know as a linguist I said oh they have to be speaking English a little bit Um because it's gonna be such a trauma for a child even you know we might think with a white person complex that we're doing this amazing thing by removing this child into a Western society but it's a huge trauma cuz they're going from a familiar environment you know people who take care of them they're friends uh and they're dropped in you know this com like on the moon and they don't they can't even express that they're hungry or that they need to go to the bathroom or you know any discomfort that they have And insisted it took about a month to get a permission I think the orphanage was very concerned about teaching something that's not correct I don't know maybe some know it's very political right Um so I had to be I had to be persuasive but also I had to be you know very precise and say look this is what I'm going to do These are the books I'm going to use It's gonna be so simple It's gonna be just conversational language so that the kids don't suffer as much as they would with the separation anxiety from their environment And eventually they allowed me to come I had a group of about maybe 10 kids and it would change some would join and some would leave And eventually um about half of them were adopted in the US and it was uh it the program became so good I mean I would be there several times a week regularly with lessons plans Uh I had typically one of the teachers stay with me The the orphanage uh supervisors stay with me so they get to learn as well And it became so good And the demand was so good for this type of lessons that I trained other uh English speaking women in uh our little community so they could come and do this And there were some women who had teaching backgrounds so they got it really quickly and they could come and work with kids There was documentary made I mean I had a TV crew to come and film I think it was made for the prospective parents to see that you know this orphanage has this program so you will be able to communicate with kids I've never seen the end product but to me that was a sign that something that I'm doing is helpful I was not paid It was just totally volunteering but I really enjoyed it Really enjoyed it and it's something that I know how to do So [00:42:02] Randall: that's. , really wonderful. Truly, truly wonderful. And something that, you know, when I, when you had shared that with me again, uh, was very resonant. One I've, I taught in, in, I taught English was teaching uh, high school students and I got to create my own curricula. I actually had 40 classes and they would rotate every two weeks. So I get an each class every two weeks. And so I would create curricula around, um, you know, there one where we did, uh, song lyrics. So we you know, singing Beatles tracks and things like that Um, and then others were, you know, just a, the creative element of being able to create, uh, um, a curriculum for an audience that was really stoked just to interact. Um and this was back in 2004, so China was a very different place. Um, the changes have been so, . And then also I, I also recall, uh, so I lived in Guang Jo for a period and a lot of the adoptions go through, uh, Shanda in, Guang Jo in, um, it's the, uh, the US consulate there. Mm I think it's Beijing and Guang Jo is where most of them go And so you'll, I remember going to that part of town and seeing, you know, mostly Caucasian American families there adopting these mostly, uh, uh, female Chinese [00:43:26] katya: Mm-hmm [00:43:27] Randall: And it didn't occur to me at the time, um, just how, I mean, just how traumatic, even at that age that is, kids have already gone through the trauma of like not having their mother, [00:43:42] katya: mm [00:43:43] Randall: which. You know, it's something I, I didn't appreciate, uh, until doing a whole lot of, uh, therapy and me meditation and various other things, just how critical that early is. to imagine what you're describing of, you know, someone who's a teenager and mm is, is very much, uh, uh, in many ways formed. Mm-hmm constantly changing, but there's a lot of deeply ingrained patterns. There's language, there's familiarity. Then you go to a place where maybe there's no one who looks like you [00:44:15] katya: Mm [00:44:16] Randall: and maybe it's not welcoming. [00:44:18] katya: mm [00:44:18] Randall: Yeah who, who want to love you but don't know how to speak. Not just language with words, but your language with behaviors and Um, were the, I'm curious, were the kids, um, in general, were they excited about the prospect of go being adopted outside of China or, [00:44:37] katya: They were but they were also very scared [00:44:41] Randall: Yeah [00:44:42] katya: I think And it's it's going it's very sad what I'll say right now But I still remember when we were talking we had lessons when some fa some kids were already selected they knew they were moving one kid is trying to explain push like he shows this poof poof that people shoot that something that he maybe has seen in the movies mass media the guns in America And that's one thing he shows to me and he is trying to explain I'm scared that there are a lot of guns and and maybe I will be killed People shoot in America a lot So I then have to explain and of course their language you know they've been taking classes maybe for six months prior their language is quite limited But I'm trying to explain will not be shot in the America There are a lot of very good people and kind people and they will love you and they will take care of you And look I lived in America I never seen a gun in America never Nowhere on the street there was a person with a gun You will not see the gun But that that's one thing they told me immediately [00:45:56] Randall: Mm-hmm. . It [00:45:58] katya: It's sad This is these are the stereotypes that [00:46:01] Randall: well, and those stereotypes go very heavily in both directions. I remember when I was first going to China, um, Uh, family members being, uh, certain family members being deeply concerned. You know, it's a communist country. And, um, there's all these, you it comes from, comes from ignorance ultimately. Um, but you know, the, it's people often fear what they don't understand. Um, my experience there was profoundly different and, you know, it's been in, in my very limited way in my circles. Like, I consider it a real opportunity to have been, uh, immersed in that culture. It's, it's my second culture and be able to dispel a lot of those myths actually. Um, yes, there's the Chinese Communist Party and yes, it has, uh, you know, a fairly authoritarian bent, but, um, here's a mirror on our culture and in many ways, like you, Communism in China doesn't mean what you think it means [00:47:00] katya: mm [00:47:00] Randall: it's largely capitalist in some ways, more capitalist ways that have their own problems. Um, and more fundamentally at the end of the day, like people are people. That's the thing that I have learned, um, and that I think learning a another language and immersing in other culture teaches more than anything is that we all have, you know, we all have, um, hopes and fears. We all have, you know, basic needs that are largely common, like, you know, and shelter and food and companionship and esteem and things like this. Um, and while culture can result in various seemingly disparate manifestations at our core, there's a hell of a lot more in common. In fact, I, I find that at the end of the day, if I can identify someone, something in someone else, positive or negative, um, That I have it in myself as well. [00:47:58] katya: Hmm mm-hmm Yes You know through all the travels that I've done I've figured out we've really need so little uh to well I maybe I speak for myself but I think most people and I've seen it in other expats um if you have a job you have self-fulfilment fulfillment and you have friends and you have um you know close people that you love and take care of and and that's pretty much all you need And it doesn't matter where you are you can be uh you know in uh beautiful So in China we lived in Shula so you know Shilla [00:48:41] Randall: Yeah. The [00:48:42] katya: right So in Dion Shangrila Hotel had apartment complex next to it and it was just so luxurious right And then in Australia we lived in a tiny little farmhouse uh in the middle of nowhere And I all my life I lived in small apartments in Save or in Moscow Uh and it doesn't matter where you are if you have family good health hopefully um know basic needs are met Uh you're good so simple [00:49:16] Randall: Now this actually brings up, uh, what I think might be an interesting topic, which is, I mean, you're of Russian descent. you lived in Russia, you spent most of life in Russia. Um, there's a conflict between, well, there's a perceived conflict between Russia and the West at the moment. There's a lot of. I think concern in, in American society, uh, and in European society about But, uh, maybe we can, well, I think already this conversation should dispel some myths from, uh, of Yeah. Amongst people who've never heard, uh, you know, truly heard the voice of a, of a native, uh, Russian in terms of just how much love and kindness and so on, uh, you bring to the table. But, uh, What [00:50:00] katya: Uh yeah know my biggest takeaway from this whole conflict right now is protect media and freedom of speech But but for the media especially I have respect for those big resources uh like Washington Post or like New York Times or like b C you know these big channels because once they get controlled by someone uh it's so easy Even in modern society with all the access to information that we have is so easy for them to block it Whoever is in control of the narrative controls the mind controls the politics the Russian society is uh really divided right now And um sorry to say it but I think it's heavily brainwashed And the reason it's brainwashed is precisely because uh all the media were banned the free speech So to speak uh media were banned uh right now The Russian the Russian platform that I personally follow they have been uh broadcasting from Europe since 24th of February When the war started they were banned immediately so they had to move out and start broadcasts from Europe The only way to listen to them in Russia towards them would be through vpn but just very recently they were called pretty much a terrorist organization and anybody who shares a screenshot uh an audio recording a screen grab from a video from the program anybody who shares on their social platform private Like Facebook's band Instagram's band So it would be Telegram Okay Telegram is still allowed If you share you are looking at potential arrest in jail time uh because you are supporting terrorism This is how far it's gone since 24th of February last year Um and you know if somebody told me a year ago that you cannot control the whole of Russian population you cannot switch all of the internet Well now my answer is yes you can If you make people if you if people are so afraid to share um the you know their conversations become very personal They maybe will talk face to face and they will say you know what saw that Russia just has bombed this houses and 10 children died and these were not military um you know groups It was just a house You can say that in conversation but you cannot broadcast it on any any social platform And that's how you just slowly slowly you're closing closing it up And people who are brave enough to speak out they either end up in jail or they get out [00:53:14] Randall: Mm-hmm. [00:53:15] katya: and yeah [00:53:16] Randall: Well, and just for anyone who is, uh, listening and is somewhat sat self-satisfied, thinking that it can't happen here, these same forces are at play in, um, you know, quote unquote democratic societies. [00:53:31] katya: Mm-hmm it can happen anywhere [00:53:34] Randall: can happen anywhere. There's definitely, uh, you know, consolidation of media. There's definitely. you know, certain, you know, there have been times when having certain opinions could, can get you shouted down, can get you essentially canceled in a way. you know, I remember when the, the Iraq war was being debated [00:53:54] katya: Mm [00:53:55] Randall: you know, the buildup towards that. And if you had a dissenting opinion, uh, you were, you know, anti-American. Um well, you know, it's, uh, in, in retrospect it seems like a number of people on both sides of the political spectrum, uh, look at that conflict as not, uh, having born the fruits that were promised [00:54:16] katya: Mm-hmm yes [00:54:17] Randall: Um, and you know, the point that I would make is, You know, we all have our beliefs, we all have our, uh, predispositions. Um, but you know, another form of this that seems quite pervasive here is the bubbles. You know I only you know, I, I only read certain types of media and the other media is bad. And then the people on the other side have the same sort of perspective. And so getting, having a diverse diet, including of opinions you don't like, including of opinions you don't agree with from parties that you, um, don't, uh, necessarily resonate with, but treating them like people who are doing their best and who may look at you in the same way and have some merits in that perspective, uh, I think is tremendously valuable and is also essential in not having a society progress in the direction towards extreme polarity, I factionalism and so on. [00:55:11] katya: Mm [00:55:13] Randall: Oh [00:55:14] katya: You know I think one of the best thing each of us can do to combat our own biases step out of our own echo chambers the more even if you have very polarized opinions around yourself the Opinions you surround yourself with the better your selection is the you know the more the wider the picture you see And even you know being a extremely liberal super left leaning person in Texas um you know I'm surrounded by people who don't feel the same that I do But for you know for many reasons I want to know where they're coming from because there's no way for me to br to build the bridge towards that side If I ignore that side is there you have to see the other bank to be able to reach out to it So I know there is a lot of you know there's so much polarization whereas some people say oh I proudly don't I'm not going to include in my circle This type of person who thinks that way like for me would be a gun owner I would say oh well but hey you want to have as many opinions around yourself and you know to get a full picture And uh you know my message to my son who's 13 and who's super interested in ev in all politics right now um in being of Russian descent as well loves so socialism communism he loves the iconography of it he would wear Russian C C C P U society t-shirt before the now he's not But uh you know my message to him and everybody in his age group is Hey critical thinking is what you want And to develop critical thinking you wanna have a lot of sources of of information know how to process information know how to you know digest it find the key moments and don't just trust the loudest wa voice in the room And in Russia going back to that in Russia right now um all the loudest voices have extremely conservative They're very polarizing It is hard but that gives me even more appreciation for anybody who stands out And there are still people who are out there protesting Uh there are a lot of women who protest cons The wives of those you know guys imagine that Imagine you're an IT specialist or you're a banker You have nothing against Ukraine never had you have relatives over there Uh you are very peaceful never had a gun in your hand You maybe have two kids at home and a dog and then somebody shows up To your office cuz they do it They can script now through offices uh they come to your boss and they bring him the name of the list of names and they're saying we know that such and such works Here you will be responsible for distributing the conscription notes And the boss comes into the room They don't even know what's going on You're just okay guys you were all conscripted because as soon as you receive the paper you acknowledge that you know you've been called and you can't really back out So you can hide and not open the door if they come to your house People literally have been hiding Russian men have been running from their homes There is a guy who build a camp in the woods like in Taiga Forest so that the people don't find him He's got no address Nobody knows where he is because once they see your face and once you receive it in your hand they got you And yeah imagine this Bankers go to war and a month later the wife gets a note that he's dead This is what happens to Russian soldiers and these poor women know now they have kids they have a dead husband in the war they it wasn't his defined uh there is a story of uh of an it or yeah someone from administrative you know side of life who was hired a lawyer to fight his conscription because by law he was not supposed to be conscripted He was killed while the lawyer was protesting his conscription he was killed at the war zone Um not I not trying to you know Russia look like a victim is an aggressor and I'm terribly ashamed what my country does And when people come to the shop and they ask me oh where's your accent from It is so difficult to answer this question like it's always been cuz I don't wanna be stereotyped as someone who's Russian or someone someone at all Like I don't want you to know like I live to so many places who knows what has formed me as as a woman right now but right now especially it's really hard And I always give a disclaimer and I say yes I'm from Russia I support Ukraine I feel like I have to say because I don't want Anybody to think because there are so many who do support the war unfortunately it's hard Um it's very difficult [01:00:23] Randall: Well, and, and again, like to, before we bring it full circle, like, you know, I, I, I sus, I wonder if there are, you know, if, if there are any Vietnam veterans who might be listening who might with some of that experience. I mean, we are immune to this in, uh, in the us And furthermore, you know, in my own travels, um, you know, I've been to places where I've been asked to account for the choices of the government, of the country I come from particularly, um, back in the, you know, 2004, 2005, 2006. Um, and, um, it, you know, as much as, uh, there's an American. Belief in, you know, a certain set of values and like this idea that we, uh, are promulgating these values in the world. Well, oftentimes the things that are, are that the population here is not paying attention to are going counter, uh, to the narrative that's being put out. But, um, we've, we've gone gonna, I think you and I will end up having another conversation [01:01:25] katya: Yes. Yes. [01:01:27] Randall: sort of thing, but to, to bring it full circle, you know, talking about like connecting with people [01:01:34] katya: Mm. [01:01:34] Randall: who have different perspectives and backgrounds and so on. Um, I don't think it's at all trite to say that like, this is an experience that you can have on a bicycle. Like on a bicycle. You go show up for a group ride and you know, you can find rides where everyone, you know, is a skinny, shaved shave legged white guy and Lyra going, going hammering on the road ride. But there's a lot of diversity to be had as well if you find your group and there's nothing quite like the shared ordeal of a long bike ride, um, to break down barriers and help realize the humanity of another person. [01:02:10] katya: Oh, for sure. And, you know, speaking of diversity in Cycline, um, I, I really do feel, and it's, you know, it's not just, you know, thinking someone's tune or what's the phrase that. Adventures. Cycline in general does that, and by that I mean gravel events. So I'm not specifically not saying racing, but gravel events, bike packing events. I feel like my contribution, um, to build in or to help in reach out is because I'm a female and I'm not from here. And, you know, English is my foreign language and I'm just trying to have a good time on the bike. So for me, I'm coming from this, you know, vantage point where I really don't care you look like, how old you are, what your bike is like. I just want us to go out there and have a great time and I want you to have a very good experience. Um, and you know, the fact that Cy. Still perceived as, you know, middle-aged men or younger men, super fed, um, out in old matching kid, you know, beautiful bike. think it's very, uh, retro. I think it's dying out. Um, the people that I see, uh, are becoming a lot more how would just different, you know, come with what you have. And I'm so happy that, uh, at least on the gravel side of things, is really welcoming. There's so many women's clinics, they're, you know, there are these pros who do great videos and they write it in these amazing places where in Jordans and flip flops. Um, I think that is actually super encouraging too. Like everybody, and it's funny, I do some advocacy here where I go out and meet some decision makers, um, for local infrastructure investments. Like when there is some, I just want to a, a meeting about an extension of a highway, you know, stuff like that. I make sure if I can, I make sure to come on my bike in a skirt and like flip flops or not to look at all as a cyclist. Um, just to, to say, look, we look the same. We are the same, we speak the same language. Like there's nothing that really separates me from you. I think there's nothing worse than going to places like that full decked out and Lyra and, and screaming pretty much, I am so different from you. Um, know, at the end of the day we wanna find more commonalities than, you know, something that separates us. And, uh, biking for sure can be both. Uh, and I think that's why I gravitate to commuting by bike. Fuck adventure though I love road cycling for sport. It's amazing. increases my F tp hopefully. [01:05:10] Randall: Yeah, [01:05:11] katya: I follow my metrics. I do my intervals [01:05:15] Randall: well, Katy, um, it's been really, really lovely connecting with you, hearing your story. I'm sure that, uh, you know, some of the members of the community will, will appreciate it as well. Uh, if folks want to find your shop, find information about, uh, the work that you're doing, how, how would they go about doing so [01:05:33] katya: Um, well, thank you very much. It was very nice. Uh, I, I should have mentioned that I got to know your podcast through my 20 hour drive to Colorado, and I listened to 15, 15 episodes in a row, just binged on my drive, so I'm extremely honored. , don't even know how honored I am to be here. Two years ago when I was driving to Timbo, it was Timbo gravel race I would've never, ever imagined. Um, but to find us, um, cool Cat Cycles website, cool Cat Cycles is just one cat and she cycles with c ccc. Easy to remember. Cool cat cycles. Um, dot com and then Facebook page. All my events are on Facebook. We are also ambassadors and right with gps, so you might be able to find cool cat cycles. Uh, there is at least one word there, backpacking route. Um, and then Instagram. Cool cat cycles as well. I answer all the messages quickly. Uh, I love sharing my roots. All my roots are right with gps. My personal roots are public. I'll be very happy to send a bike back in route, the gravel route. I'm out in the country, uh, about 50 minutes from here, twice a week, riding gravel, and I know those roads like my 10 fingers. [01:06:59] Randall: Well, um, for anyone listening who happens to be in the area around katy, Texas [01:07:05] katya: Cat cycles. [01:07:06] Randall: Cycles strongly encourage you to pay them a visit and join one of their rides. And I also just wanna say that it's been an honor and a privilege chatting with you as well. It's one of the joys of this role, and it's something I don't take lightly. So thank you for coming on. [01:07:20] katya: Thank you so much Randall. [01:07:21] Craig Dalton: That's going to do it for this week's edition of the gravel ride podcast. Big thank you to Randall and Katia for that interesting conversation. And big, thanks to our friends at dynamic cyclist. Remember, use the coupon code, the gravel ride to get 15% off any dynamic cyclist program. If you're interested in connecting with me or Randall or Katia for that matter, I encourage you to join the ridership. That's www.theridership.com. That's a free global cycling community where you can connect with other riders around the world. To trade information about roots and rides, parts and equipment. Anything that's in your gravel vocabulary. If you're able to support the show, please visit buy me a coffee.com/the gravel wide. Or ratings and reviews are hugely appreciated. Until next time. Here's to finding some dirt under your wheels. .

(1-19-21) Yeah It's PWW!!! What is the best side hustle you have heard of? We found two of them that could be right up your alley! This Celebricheese is getting out of hand. Wait until you hear the new commercial. Mexico has pulled a bunch of cereal off the shelves because the boxes feature characters. They is not allowed there. Well what if the cartel took over the cereal business. What cereals would they be pushing. We play explain the audio and a whole lot more.

Hazel Ortega is a firm believer that sharing your story can change the world, that a fish can't grow big in a small pond. She shares that it wasn't that she wanted to be a psychologist, but that she didn't want to be homeless that she went to high school and college as a mom of three. Hazel and Lesley talk about replacing "goals" with "miracles," changing your environment, and celebrating the small wins.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co .And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:The challenge of staying in the mindset of your choiceIt takes an effort to build a communityChange the world by sharing your storyThings didn't change for Hazel until she changed her environmentA fish can't grow big in a small pondYou're not going to feel the same five years from now as you do today (and that's a good thing!)Episode References/Links:Hazel's IGHazel's LIHazel's FBHazel's websiteHazel's other websiteMaslow's hierarchy of needsDave RamseyRachel RogersGuest Bio:Hazel Ortega, who is open about coming from a rough childhood, tells her inspiring story on how she wentFrom:Growing up poorLiving in a rat-infested household, in a dangerous gang neighborhoodLiving on food stampsPutting higher education on the back burnerTo:Having higher education even in her late 20'sHaving a bestselling book on AmazonHaving several multimillion-dollar businessesFlying in private jetsHaving more than enough quality time for her familyLearn how having big goals, leveraging on the available opportunities, and surrounding yourself with good people can bring major changes in your life.If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox.ResourcesWatch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable PilatesSocial MediaInstagramFacebookTik TokLinkedInEpisode Transcript:Lesley Logan 0:00  Hello, how are you? Welcome back to Be It Till You See It. Ah, I just got off of the interview with Hazel Ortega, let me just tell you if there was never, if there was ever a Be It Till You See It story you had to listen to this, this is the one. This woman grew up in just grew up in a city that like many of us could never imagine or dream or picture. And it was hard times, I mean, she didn't get her high school diploma till she was 30. So spoiler alert there. And now she is I just hung up with her and she's gone off to a trip to Peru, and then she's going to Croatia. So, she is literally going to tell you how to Be It Till You See It. She's got a great vision for how this is, her tips are absolutely doable. And it's a challenge to live in this mindset. But it's like, every time I hear her story, I can't think of another way to live. I can't think of another mindset to have, it just makes so much sense. So if you have been struggling if you've been like, "Well Lesley, these stories you keep bringing on they're great, but I'm from a place that this doesn't happen. People don't leave my town like that, or, you know, I'm I'm in this relationship. And I this is how it's gonna be and I can't see a logical way out of it." Well, we're screwing logic this week, and we are talking about miracles. And so, I I really hope you listen to her whole story here and dive into the thing she's offering you there in the show notes below. And you know, do me a huge favor and let Hazel and I know how this episode changed your life or changed your mindset even for a moment. Because I think it's, I think it's like a really great way if we could just make this the other way that everyone's dreaming. Just imagine where the world would be and all the things that we're doing. So, anyways, y'all Hazel Ortega is with us this week. Oh, and also so exciting. If you love Joanna Vargas from episode one, I met this woman through Joanna Vargas. And so side note, just something I'd say, ask people you love to know about people they love. Because something I'm doing here in Las Vegas is asking people who I really love and enjoy who they love and enjoy because I'm building a network because I didn't have one when I moved here. I knew a couple people very tangentially like spent a little bit of time with them and we both loved Carbon 38 and everything has it's hard to meet people, it's hard to create a community, I'm not saying it's easy. So you know please know that I understand that that effort. But if you want to meet awesome people ask the awesome people you know who they love and your your awesome community and network will grow. So here we go after this message, Hazel Ortega.Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Hello, Be It Till You See It listeners. I'm here with Hazel Ortega. Y'all, this woman I cannot wait for you to hear her story. I'm so honored because I know it already. But she was introduced to me by Joanna Vargas. You'll remember from episode one. So if you love Joanna and the force she is then you are going to love Hazel. And so here is Hazel! Hazel tell everyone who you are and what you're up to. And just thank you so much for being here today to shine your light and share your story.Hazel Ortega 3:59  Thank you, Lesley, thank you so much for letting me do that, right? That's my number one thing is to change the world by sharing my story. And who I am, I'm a I'm a mom. I have a 23 year old daughter who just graduated college and is a registered nurse. Yes ...Lesley Logan 4:18  That's amazing. The world needs more nurses. That's amazing.Hazel Ortega 4:22  Yes, I'm very happy that I created this human being to contribute to the planet. And my story, my story started off really rough growing up in the poorest neighborhood of Los Angeles. Not just poor but you know, gang members and growing up on welfare. My parents were immigrants from Mexico didn't even speak English. And having education was something that was not a priority. Surviving our neighborhood was (Lesley: Yeah) not ending up in what most people would end up in in those conditions like becoming pregnant as a teenager, becoming a drug addict, going to jail, getting into gangs or dying, (Lesley: Yeah) basically. So I that's the way I grew up. Ah ...Lesley Logan 5:17  Yeah, I mean, I think it's so interesting to hear you point out, like, that, that was... the thing was surviving. Because I think a lot of people who didn't grew up in that kind of environment, do not... do misunderstand, like, "Well, why don't they just go get a job?" And it's like, well, it's really not that easy when when everything around you is like, it's when you're in that Maslow's hierarchy of needs of like, "Where's your next meal? Where are you staying for the night?" Like that kind of stuff. It is hard to see a future ahead. And so did you, so can you tell everyone like, did you, did you go to college? I mean, your daughter went or like when what was your next step? Like, how did you get out of that neighborhood? Because I mean, if you're watching on YouTube, y'all she is living in a beautiful house. So with a gorgeous red hat. So like, how did you go from that environment to where you are now?Hazel Ortega 6:08  Yeah, well, when you say that environment, it means like an 800 square foot apartment, one bedroom, not having a future, defaulting into getting a job, not a job I love but a job because my cousin works there, right. And I need to pay my bills. So it was never a conversation of creating my life and going in that direction. I never had that conversation with anybody. (Lesley: Yeah) So, how did that that all change? I got a job because my cousin was working at a law office. And she brought me and she was the receptionist, and the attorney interviewed me, I probably was not going to get the job. He even asked me what gang I was from, because he could tell that I had like this tough, you know, demeanor, and like I know a lot of things from the streets. And he did ask me that about the gangs. And he knew where I lived. He asked me, you know, what Avenue I was living on, because the gang is a lot is called The Avenues. (Lesley: Yeah) And he did end up hiring me because, not only did my cousin recommend me for the job, but I also had a mentor in high school who was a judge in the workers compensation arena, and who this attorney knew. And because of that recommendation, I was able to start work at this prestigious law firm. (Lesley: Wow) And that's where everything changed. And Lesley, you know, the last time I was talking to your people, I was telling them, that things didn't change for me until I changed my environment. (Lesley: Yeah) Right ...Lesley Logan 7:43  That is that is the biggest key. I'm studying like, human behavior, with BJ Fogg. And he has said, the study show, if you don't change your environment it doesn't matter what you do, doesn't matter if you go back to school, or if you lose the weight, or if you get the gold job. If your environment is the same, you won't ... you won't get the benefits of those things.Hazel Ortega 8:05  Yeah, exactly. Like people tell me, "Oh, you were a big fish in a small pond." I said, "No, a fish can't grow big in a small pond." You have to change your pond. And getting this job at this prestigious law firm was a different pond.Lesley Logan 8:20  Oh, that is... I mean, I felt like Oprah, that's a tweetable moment. It's not... a fish can't grow big (Lesley laughs) in a small pond, you have to get a bigger pond. That's amazing. (Hazel laughs) Yeah. So so you know, you got this job. And I mean, so many people listening this are doing a job that maybe they got because someone recommended you should do this, or you should do this. And I think I think a lot of people, even in growing in environments that are not as tough as yours, are not living their purpose. They're they're doing what someone said they should do, or like, here's a job you can have. And so how did how did you? What was it like at that that law firm? And like what what was the next step? What was that launching pad for you?Hazel Ortega 9:03  First, I'll tell you, I got the job. And I felt out of place, like I didn't belong. And I worked with these attorneys that were making millions of dollars a year. It's such a prestigious law firm, right? And celebri... we represented celebrities who were injured while filming, which was really interesting, and NFL players. And I always felt really shy like I was not on the same level as them like there's a difference there. And I kept working there. Eventually I ended up getting injured on that job. The attorney that I worked for who encouraged me to go back to school because of my injury and just because I should. I didn't even have a high school diploma when he hired me at 24 years old. A couple years later, I became an injured worker. The attorney tells me now, "You really need to take school seriously. You need to go back to school," and I start to go back to school and I earned my highest diploma when I'm 30 years old, and then I kept going.Lesley Logan 10:05  Wow. You know, that's just like proof that it's never too late to go back. And then also, what, I mean I don't know this attorney, I don't know the whole story, but I feel like what a nice guardian angel, like just like a little, "Tap, tap, tap... You should really go back to school." And then like, you really have to take your education seriously. So you left the law firm after you got your high school diploma or what was what what did you do for work after after you went to high school?Hazel Ortega 10:31  So, I kept working with the attorney while I got my high school diploma and my college credits. I still I stayed there. And then eventually he looked at me and he said, "Oh, my God, I realized that you're go... you're going to leave me," because I was on track to become a psychologist. And, yeah, this is something that he recommended for me to do. Once I didn't know what to do. Like I got, I finished my associates degree. And he asked me, "What are you going to do next?" I had no idea what I was going to do next. And honestly, I was done. I didn't want to keep going to school. And he told me, "You you're going to be a professional, you better think about what you want to do." And I was like, "Oh my God, it was so hard to go to school." Honestly, I worked from nine to five as a secretary, I went to school from seven to 10 at night, and I went to weekend college, Saturday and Sunday ... (Lesley: and you had a daughter)Lesley Logan 11:25  And your three kids (Hazel: three kids at home, three young kids at home.) Wow! Wow! So okay. So I know the moms listening to this are like, how did you do that? Like, did you have help? Because I know childcare is really expensive and hard, like what... And also like, what was going through your mind that you made that a priority? Because that takes a lot of effort to make sure that you are you able to work, go to school and have your kids taken care of.Hazel Ortega 11:52  Yeah, and honestly, that losing the job that I currently had, where the where I was injured, was my push because I thought if I lose this job, I'm not going to get another job paying as much as this does. And mind you I was only getting paid $15 an hour is like I'm I'm afraid of losing this job. So I have to educate myself. So I get another job comparable to this job or better. (Lesley: Yeah) It wasn't I wanted to be a psychologist. It was because I didn't want to be homeless that I went back to school. Right? I didn't was not thinking of being a professional or, or living in a pimp daddy mansion. Like I didn't have those dreams. Okay, those dreams, I incrementally grew and grew. (Lesley: Yeah) So, I went to school and one of the things Lesley that a lot of people I realized is that they feel that the way you feel today is the way you're going to feel five years from now and that's not true. Along the way you add to your self esteem, based on what you're up to, right. Unless you don't grow and expand yourself, then you're going to have low self esteem in five years as well. There's no reason why your future should look any different. (Lesley: Right) If you personally read books, you change your environment, friends, and you learn about whatever it is that you're interested in, and go back to school and you start making changes, you're going to be a completely different person five years from now you will be and that's what happened to me.Lesley Logan 13:19  So, I couldn't agree more because I think often ... well, I said this, I've said this before, I'm not the first person to say it. But like we overestimate we can do in a day and we underestimate we can do in a year or five years. And I think, you know, we do take for granted, we think if we're feeling good, we're going to feel this good and five years, well, if you're doing the things you said you're gonna feel better, you're gonna feel even better. But if you are doing nothing, if you just stay status quo, you're gonna start to feel behind because the world's going forward, you know, so, um, so I love that you said that but so you you went to school, you change that. And then because I because I know the story and how it goes, I'm just gonna, how did you go from like, feeling like paycheck to paycheck and like being in school to being where you are now? Like, what were, what was the what was the impetus to even getting out of like, just doing the nine to five.Hazel Ortega 14:12  Okay, so I finished college, and I became a psychologist and I got a job, right? And so the college taught me how to do a new job and it was great. And it taught me how to think differently, and especially in psychology, think different and help others, right? So I'm learning that I can actually think differently and becoming educated gave me tools to react differently to the problems I was having in life. The problems never changed. I just react different because I learned to do better. So I got a job as a psychologist. I was still bouncing checks. I didn't work on that part. The ...Lesley Logan 14:48  Well, you didn't go to financial school, you went to psychology school, so you know. (Hazel: Exactly)Hazel Ortega 14:53  So, I was still bouncing checks negative in my account and feeling really like, I was going to live a life of poverty until the rest of my life and and Lesley, I'll tell you this, that people that don't have any money and people that have a lot of money can both have equal fear of not having enough money. (Lesley: Yeah) It's really as a mindset and something that everybody should work on. You could be, you could have a million dollars in the bank, and then feel like you're, you know, paying for dinner. And then people are not pitching in like, like, they're taking advantage of you, like you know ...Lesley Logan 15:30  Oh, 100 100%, that money mindset is so key because I mean, I know people who make millions of dollars, and they have the same fears that I do, and I'm not making millions yet. But, um, but like, you know, and I'm like, I like see that in them. And I'm like, "This is not something I want to grow with me. This, we need to take care of now."Hazel Ortega 15:51  Yes, and you can, you definitely can have freedom around money. So, what I did is I started to take personal development courses. And that is where everything changed exponentially for me, where I was starting to really learn about the way I think and why I think that way in and how can I think differently. And then you can have a mindset shift, like in a nanosecond, where once you see something new in a new way, you'll never go back to see it the old way. So it behooves all of us to master ourselves to learn about ourselves, and look at life in whole new different ways that this is a personal development seminar, I had a coach. And so I think that's really important for all of us to have coaches and mentors, because they see something in you that you can't see for yourself and they hold the space. Right? And my coach asked me, "Where do you see yourself in five years?" At the time, I couldn't think of anything that would be different in five years, then then what was happening in that moment. I still was the early stages of my personal development, and I call it my embryonic stage of personal development ...Lesley Logan 17:12  I love that so much, yeah, but I think, I think ... like so many people don't invest in a coach, because either they've never heard of one. Or even they may think they can't afford it or don't deserve it. So how did you like, how did you get to where you feel like, I'm gonna invest in this person?Hazel Ortega 17:29  I didn't actually invest in the personal development coach, that was something that was assigned to me. And that was my, probably my first exposure to having a coach, (Lesley: Okay, okay, got it) I'm having an ability, I became used to it. And then when I was done with the course, in my own personal life, I hired a coach for the first time for my business. Lesley Logan 17:51  Got it. Okay, I see that, thank you for sharing that. Because I think sometimes people like you did stuff to get there to get, to where you could. And so this person asked you to see yourself in five years, you couldn't do that.Hazel Ortega 18:04  I couldn't come up with anything, it was like the beginning, I was blocked, like kapow. And then I was, you know, very reasonable about everything at that time, in the sense of like, you know, based on my reality, like, what is, what's going to happen in five years, and I thought, well, in five years, me... well, I'll just be five years older. Like, there's no reason why anything should be, you know, very different. (Lesley: Right) Oh, she, you know, she asked me that, and I still couldn't come up with anything. So I'm sitting there, and she's holding space for me. I'll wait, you think about it, you know, and she gave me like, 10 minutes. And I knew I couldn't get away with like, I don't know. So I sat there and after a few minutes, I said, "Well, if I believe in God, and I believe in miracles, then what is possible for me in five years," and that opened up this world that I didn't have access to before I realized that I never dream. I'm all of us, a lot of us are mostly realistic. We're trained in school to be realistic, to be logical, to ... that, you know, two plus two is four, four plus four is eight. And that's the way it goes expert, you know, you get success as you build on it. (Lesley: Yeah) And trying to be a millionaire. If you have no money in the bank, it doesn't even seem feasible, or nobody else in your family has ever been a millionaire. It just ...Lesley Logan 19:21  That, that's exactly it. If you've never seen it, it's really hard to dream it. And if people around you are saying, "This is it, this is what you're doing." You know, like, cuz I definitely had those people in my family who were like, "Why, why would you do that?" Or like, "Don't do that, because like, you could lose everything." And it's like, "Well, I don't have a lot to lose. So I may as well cope," you know, go for it. But like it's hard if the people in your environment haven't shown you that there. It's okay, it's safe to dream and it's, it's powerful to dream.Absolutely. I mean, I'm divorced now. But when I was married, I changed jobs. And my my husband at the time, was telling me, "Why you changing jobs. What if, what if that new job, it doesn't work out and then you're gonna lose this other job that you have, and you've been there for so long." Unlike, what the other job pays more is it, I'm gonna have a better position. And I explained it to him and he was very scared for me. (Lesley: Yeah, yeah) and I did it anyway. But yes, he, you know, I could have thought to myself back then, like, "Oh, he's keeping me down, or he doesn't believe in me, he's always being negative." But now as I got my training these people in our lives, which are our mothers, our fathers, brothers and sisters, and spouses, and significant others, and everybody, they're afraid for us, right? They create these fears for us. And we're, you know, our we have a mustard seed of confidence. And we're like, you know, (Lesley: Yeah) you need a little bit that we have, and then they come in, they make us feel like, like, we should be very scared, and don't do it. (Lesley: Yeah) ... Feel the fe... you know, feel the fear and do it anyway. These people love us. They... I'm very clear about that. They don't want to keep us small, but what they want to do is keep us safe. Yeah, don't lose everything. You're gonna lose your money, don't invest in that, you're gonna lose this you all your time, you're gonna get sick. ... so that's you're free.I I love that. You said that because we have a mantra to Be It pod. It's like "Do It Scared." And so there's like all this, these clothes, this merch, like, "Do It Scared" because people ask all the time, like, "How did you do that? I'm so scared." Like, "I'm scared all the time. I'm just doing it scared." Like, I don't even like sometimes like in Cambodia, I try to learn to drive when I'm in Cambodia, on a moped, moped. And everyone drives in different, like, they're just going there's no streets like lanes, you just drive and you make a left hand turn, you make it into oncoming traffic. And then when you when it's safe, you merge over. And I literally just go, "Aaah," as I'm going in, I don't know. Somehow, it lets me like peddle. (Lesley laughs) So I love that you said that. So, I also just wanted to go back to you. So you came up with something to, you dreamt something up in five years, because you believe like, if I believe in God, if I believe in miracles, and I believe this. I think so many people are like you that they ha... they get stuck, they have a block, they're afraid. I do a lot of coaching people and I'm like, "Where do you want to be in 10 years?" And they're like, "I don't I don't even know I want to be next month." And I'm like, and then they're embarrassed by it. But that's actually not abnormal to not be able to think that far ahead. So I'm so glad you said that because a lot of people would just assume the like, "Okay, I wrote down I'm gonna do in five years," and you had a, you had a block. So how did what did you write down? How did you get past that block?Well, you know, your brain is this beautiful organ that keeps you alive. However, it also keeps you small and in fear, right? And so if you understand your brains, the way the brain works, you can outsmart your brain, right? And so when I said, you know, when I heard that question, I couldn't think of anything. I mean, I couldn't think of anything for five years. But when I said miracles, well, your brain is not, it's not programmed to make a miracle happen. So it allowed me to have that vision. That's why I think the miracle mentality miracle mindset is really important to to establish, because then you can really make miracles happen. You ...So you're replacing right miracles for goals, like your like, you put miracles in there. Because then your brain isn't like, "Oh, that's not actually logistically possible in five years." ... Because by miracle your brains like, "Okay, I'm willing to leave room for that." ...Hazel Ortega 23:31  Yeah. Imagine your brain, you put in there that you want to have a million dollars, your brain is faster than the calculator. It's already like, "No, not gonna happen." (Hazel laughs)Lesley Logan 23:42  It's so true. It's so true. You know, I'll think of things I'm like, "Oh, I wanna do that from 40." And then immediately my brain is like, "Well, where does that money come, where it's going?" And it's like, it's like, "No, stop. You don't have to worry about that. It's happening from 40." And I'm going to insert miracles, insert miracles, instead, I love it.Hazel Ortega 23:59  Yeah, do that. And even like, you could say, "I want to be in love. I want to have the love of my life." But you're married to a differ... to a person that you don't believe that that's the person, you know and you absolutely can fall in love and have the love of your life with the current relationship that you have even if you think like this person cannot change this, you know, miracles do happen, give people chances, and you'll see it, you'll absolutely see it. I wish I had this information on when I was a lot younger, my life would look even different, more different, and I would have avoided a lot of pain and suffering. But it's never too late and I'm still young. (Lesley: Yeah) You know, (Hazel laughs)Lesley Logan 24:39  You're still... well, we're also young. I mean, I mean, people are living to a 120 these days. So, okay, everyone's dying to know, what was on the thing and five years ago, what did you get all of it?Hazel Ortega 24:51  Okay, so I said, I wanted to have a life that look... like I was always on vacation ...Lesley Logan 24:59  Well, you do. You look like you're about to like go out to the pool right now. (Lesley laughs) YeahHazel Ortega 25:04  ... now at my house. (Lesley: Yeah) I'm, I'm living my dream every single day. I'm always in awe of how I manifest this into my life. But I'm always creating my life, right? So I could for the first time ever I created that I had a like, look like I was always on vacation. I said, I wanted to have a $3 million plus business. At the time, I did have my own business. I started it from my garage. Well, I grew it to be the largest company in California that offers counseling for injured workers. Then I said, I wanted to find the love of my life. I didn't even believe in that. I thought it was something you know, that was for people on television, because I, I didn't even see it in, see it in real life. My mom married and divorced many times and I was already divorced at this time also. So, I didn't believe that you could have the love of your life. And if you did, it wasn't sustainable. So it was all faced, not based on fear. I had fear but everything. (Lesley: Yeah) I also said I wanted to fly in private jets and I wanted to live in a pimp daddy mansion, the kind where music videos are filmed. ... I'll know that I had none of it at the moment when I said it.Lesley Logan 25:17  Right. And so are people filming music videos in your pimp daddy mansion? Is it happening?Hazel Ortega 26:21  Yes, it definitely happening and Grey's Anatomy is looking at my home to do a season here, filming here, (Lesley: Oh my gosh, stop!) (Lesley laughs) I tell you, I can't even invent this stuff. Like, I think you know, you when you create the life that you want. You not only get the life that you said you want, but you also get a bag of chips. That means it's even better than you created it. And you think it can't get better, but always can get better.Lesley Logan 26:49  I agree. I everything I've ever achieved that I wanted. It came with more than I expected and, and it's and it's true. Y'all, if you're listening, like, "How does she know the stuff." So, we had Hazel and as an agency, an agency for a webinar. And after a year you did your talk on, "How to like create your miracle mindset." Brad and I went for a walk and I had been struggling with like, because I'm building a business to sell. Y'all, I'm not gonna say which one but one of them I'm building to sell and I kept getting stuck on like, "Who's buying this? Like, who would buy this?" You know, not in like a negative, it's not worth buying because we have hundreds of members. So it's, you know, it's, it's everything people want, but like, "Who would who would buy it someday." And on the walk, I like got so clear on exactly who would buy it, how much they're buying it for all the things and I was like, and it was so funny because immediately Brad had that his brain was like, "What I was like, it's miracle time". It's miracle tell your brain, this is a miracle. This is not I got, this a miracle. And it was so fun and we have like got a dream board going on. So you can see it all the time. It's a really, I'm really excited about. So, I can't wait to get all that in a bag of chips, like, it is really fun.Hazel Ortega 28:04  You know, follow it up, follow it up with okay, so you created who is going to buy it and how much they're going to pay for it. Okay, so then and then what? What was was going to change for you. Now you're going to have more freedom. Now you're going to travel, you know now what, you now you're going to have a nonprofit. What benefits are there to selling your company? Like all of what your life is going to look like when you sell it? (Lesley: Ah) That's ... golden, the next golden step ...Lesley Logan 28:33  Okay, done. Don't worry, I'll do that homework this weekend ... (Lesley laughs) (Hazel: And that's so much fun) Oh, it's so much fun. Hazel, you're so fun. I just I'm so go... I really when I heard your story, I was like, "We have to have her on" because I just know that there are people sitting there listening and they're stuck. And they keep getting logistical on like logical on their on their things. And, and so they keep listening to inspo. And they're like, "Well, didn't works for them, didn't work for me." And I just had to have you on because like, you are a representation that like, if you put it out there and then and then this is this is like a fun thing. So people are like, so for the people who are being logical. You put this out, you put these miracles out. What is the first thing you did to get the ball rolling on the miracles?Hazel Ortega 29:22  Okay, so, I did these things, subconsciously, I didn't have like a to-do list that would make these things happen. I crea... I created my vision right in my brain. And then I drew it and it become to my house, my drawing is framed and it's in my dining room. And you can see this, it's like, "One day is going to be in the museum of Hazel," right? (Hazel and Lesley laughs) (Lesley: Yes.) And my statue is gonna be there too. (Hazel laughs)Lesley Logan 29:51  Absolutely, I hope it's wearing a red hat. (Hazel laughs)Hazel Ortega 29:55  Okay, so, I drew it and then what happened is that in my real life, I didn't have those things, right. So, I one of the things I also said I wanted was a relationship with my sisters that looked like we were in heaven. At the time when I drew it, I was fist fighting with my sisters. So, I did not have that relationship with them. I was a psychologist, fist fighting with my sister who was a police officer at the time. Okay ...Lesley Logan 30:23  So it's gonna be a TV show, just so you know, this will be a movie. (Hazel laughs)Hazel Ortega 30:29  Yes. And so, what I did was, once I saw it in my brain, when I what I saw in real life was not that and it made me take action. So in the area of money, I took a course, the Dave Ramsey course, I was tired of being broke and paycheck to paycheck. So, I took a Dave Ramsey course to bu... to budget, to learn how to budget, okay, and I even need budget anymore. But by ...Lesley Logan 30:58  ... now, so you know, probably is very helpful.Hazel Ortega 31:02  It was very helpful. And I created a group of women who also wanted to get out of the paycheck to paycheck barely (Lesley: Yeah) making that and start to budget. And then what's your budget? Why do you want to budget? Well, I want to budget because I want to save money. Okay, why don't want to save money? Well, because once I save money, that I want to invest money, I want my money to grow. (Lesley: Yeah) So, I had like the why, why, why? (Lesley: Yeah) became everything's I was doing ... So, and then I named the group of Millionaire Women of Whittier, the city that we live that, and the women in the group were very uncomfortable that I named it women, millionaire women, and they were like, "We don't want to be millionaires." I'm like, "How could you say that?" You know, and so I'm like, "It's just a game. It's just, you know, like for fun?" Well, they were not liking it right now. I started a new group called Billionaire Women's Club. And that one, too, I invited one of my friends to it, and and she's one of my wealthiest friends I have. And she said, "You know, I don't want to be a billionaire." I'm just like, "What is this all about?" ...Lesley Logan 32:02  Have you heard of Rachel Rodgers? She has these "Shmellies" like she millionaires? (Hazel: Oh, no) yeah, she calls these "Shmellies." I don't it's a group that she created. Because she, she wrote a book like, "Everyone's a Millionaire," or "We Can All Be Millionaires" or something like that. So it's, I think, I mean, that's a whole different topic for a different podcast, Hazel, that we could have all these women on to talk about, like, what are women afraid of about being millionaires and billionaires, and I think it's a lot of like, stuff that we were raised with the patriarch. So you know, but I think it's great, the work you're doing, you're doing the Lord's work there. Because it's like, if we can get more and more women to aspire and believe that they can be millionaires or billionaires, like, you know, just imagine what the little girls growing up, get to see as possible, you know, their miracles will be huge. They'll be bigger than ours.I'm telling you, so I learned this technology, right. And now, I, in the last 10 years, I just celebrated my 10 year business anniversary. And, number one, I am still in business, which I've you know, statistically most businesses do not do not last the first five years, (Lesley: Yup) then it's it's a multi million dollar business. So that statistically, is remarkable. (Lesley: Very right. Yeah) It's a miracle. I'm a woman business owner, a miracle, I'm a minority with miracle, you know, and I'm in workers comp... niche where there's, there's, it's a miracle. (Lesley: Yeah) And so I've been able to help 40,000 injured workers with through our counseling to train and get jobs, they love, 40,000. So because I learned this technology, and I changed my life. Now 40,000 people were impacted. And who knows ...Yeah, you're chaning them in bigger ways. So I mean, y'all, I hope you heard that. Like she, she did all this miracle work, miracle mindset. And then she took some action, which is possible. She's like, "Okay, if I want to get better with money, I need to actually know how to be better with if, I want to have money, I better know how to use it. If I want to have relationship with my sisters, I better work on that" like so, I think that's really cool. I mean, Hazel, have to have you back because I could just keep talking to you. But I feel like I'm really excited to go back to my journal and my picture and add to it. Okay, Hazel first before we get to the Be It steps. We're letting people get a pen and paper. How can people follow you, find you get to know, you work with you?I'm on Instagram, @hazelortega_official is my Instagram and a lot of people reach out to me there and ask me questions and everybody can feel free to do that. My website is themasteryofmiracles.com and I have a free visioning guide there that you can use to create your 10 year vision.Oh, I love it. We're gonna put all that in the show notes. So super easy for everyone to just link on through, get that get that freebie and also get mastering your miracles. And definitely follow her on Instagram because it's so fun. I follow you and it's it's it's inspiring. It's really, it's really fun to watch everything that you're doing. Okay, I asked everyone this, because I think it's great to be inspired. But take action is like my thing because messy action is where you know, all the good stuff comes from it allows you to be scared and do it scared because it's messy, don't be perfect. Perfect is boring. So, what would you say to someone who's listening to this? Like, what's the first thing? What's one or two things that they could do right now to have a miracle mindset?I have top three things, (Lesley: okay) okay. ... three things, even though my book has 15 things. (Lesley: Okay) Top three things right now, anybody can do wherever they are in their lives, is create the vision for your life 10 years from now, based on miracles, so miracles have nothing to do with you. It's completely to do with the divine. But you have to create that coming from your heart. What do you want in 10 years? And go big, big (Lesley: Yeah) because ... like, you can't ask for small stuff. (Lesley: Yeah) I mean, this guy did everything around us, right? So, go big. God wants you to have the first test tickets. He wants you to have the love of your life. And he wants you to have everything that you want and the bag of chips, okay? So don't go, don't ask for small things. You have a big God, though, that's one. And then number two, change your environment. So like those people that Lesley mentioned, and I mentioned that are naysayers. That's fine. You don't have to get rid of them. But you do need to find another environment to spend more time there. So if you want to have a successful business, that's over a million dollars, then find the group of those people and hang out with that group. If you don't know anybody in that group, Google them. I'm mentored by JLo. Okay, she doesn't know that but she mentors me. (Hazel and Lesley laughs) ...That's amazing! I want to have like, you need to have like a ... like a sticker or when you put those on the bumper sticker. It's like mentored by JLo.That's right. That's who mentors me ... JLo, Oprah and Jesus Christ. That's what mentors me. So ... (Lesley: It's a great mentorship group) not do that. And then your third, is celebrate your small wins, you, well, we are always evolving and expanding. So our goals change and grow. And then if you're always just changing, you're going up in it and up in it, then you never feel like you quite get there and that you're successful that (Lesley: Yeah) you've been successful. So celebrate the small things and if it is like opening your second location, then celebrate that you even had that creation of that thought, "Wow, I first I never even thought I could have one business. Now I'm thinking of a second business," celebrate the thought, celebrate with your friends.You are 100% accurate on that. I couldn't agree more. And there's so much studies on behavior science that like, "Celebration is so key," our brain pays attention to what we're excited about. The CEO for Pink, she, I just see her in an interview, and she was going in to an FDA approval thing for their, their product. And it was like they got rejected the first time, which was like, just so scary. And they went in they actually appealed it. And the day before the appeals where they had to be like ready to answer all the questions, they partied, they celebrated before. And so it is something that is so key. And y'all she sold that business for $15 billion. So and then got it back. Anyways, that's another story. But like miracle, this is the thing. Miracle mindset is like so so. Oh, we could just keep talking but I just want to ... do you have more things today. Sorry.You're really advanced there because now you're saying, "pre Party," which I love that. And I was saying celebrate. You know when you ...It's a thought. Yeah. And I'm like, "I'm like party before?" Sold! (Lesley laughs)I love it. Yes, yes. That's the advanced version. (Lesley: Yeah) ... we're where we're at, we're beginners, where we are creating a vision. Which we're adding a new environment and celebrating the small wins.Celebrate the small wins. I'm, I am so about that when OPC we just I like say just celebrate even logged in and press play. Even if your kids took you off your mat, or your dog went crazy, just celebrate that you actually open your computer, you logged in, you press play, you skipped all the websites and all the things that could have gotten you there. And that is worth celebrating because your brain will want to find ways to come back to that party. So Hazel, these are such great tips and also just an incredible inspirational story that that I can't wait to, I'm so glad I got to share it because it's really amazing. I'm grateful that Joanna introduced us. Thank you so much for being here. everyone listening please do me a huge favor, screenshot this tag @hazelortega_official, and @be_it_pod with your takeaways. Because the thing is, is if you're believing this way and you're dreaming this way and you get your friend to do it, and they're friends to do it then we stop having people who are scared all the time around us telling us we, we can't do it. (Hazel: It's very very true.) Thank you. Thank everyone for listening. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!'Be It Till You See It' is a production of 'As The Crows Fly Media'.Brad Crowell 40:45  It's written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 40:52  Kevin and Bel at Disenyo handle all of our audio editing and some social media content.Brad Crowell 40:58  Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 41:07  Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can't see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all the video each week so you can.Brad Crowell 41:18  And the Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Designers may have incredibly innovative eco-friendly ideas, but how do we actually get these ideas into production? How do you convince a client or an employer to choose a more sustainable option that might cost more? Why do design-led companies boost stock performance by 211% over standard S&P 500 companies?These are a few of the topics covered in this 39 minute interview with Creative Leadership specialists Shana Dressler and Brian Quinn. Shana & Brian have been working together to bring leadership skills to creative professionals, and we were happy to sit down with them and a live audience of our community members to chat about the skills necessary to lead clients & teams towards positive change.To stay in the loop on the leadership skills training sessions we may offer in the future, sign up at climatedesigners.org/leadership. Links mentioned in this episode:Join our online communityclimatedesigners.org/leadershipShanaDressler.comTurquoise.NYCThe Value of Design compared to S&P 500 Transcript:Sarah: [00:00:00] Welcome to a special episode of we are climate designers! Not only do we have two great guests joining us for this episode, we have a live audience joining us for a Q & A session after the interview, which is something new that we're trying. It's something that we're going to be offering our community members. So if you are not part of our active fun and engaging online community, definitely sign up. You can connect with others in your area and around the globe by heading to climatedesigners.org/community to get all the links to get in there And it is free! Let's get started Marc: [00:01:08] Yeah So today we have Shana Dressler and Brian Quinn they're gonna introduce themselves in a minute but yeah super excited to have you all here and Shana you and I have been colleagues for a very long time now So it's exciting to work with you again after so many years So would love to hear from you all about your backgrounds So you've been doing this kind of creative leadership training for a while now So how did you all get into doing this kind of work and maybe more importantly why are you doing this kind of work Shana: [00:01:36] So first of all thank you so much mark and Sarah for having Brian and I so my background starts of probably 2010 where the New York city the startup community was just getting going I think most of us that were Launching a social enterprises and for-profit businesses had no idea what we were doing and that parlayed itself into small business skill training And so I worked for about 10 years with entrepreneurs and then started to realize that the most impact I could make would be to do leadership training Because at the end of the day if you have an idea and you have a team basically if you're not being effective as a leader it really doesn't matter how great your product or your services you fall flat on your face If your team isn't willing to follow so yeah and that led me into getting leadership training in Amsterdam at the things school of creative leadership And I'm also an executive coach and there was a lot of training that was involved with leadership there. Brian: [00:02:32] Yeah And Shana and I have known each other for a long time and We originally were working together reconnected and like 2019 and then ended up creating a workshop together around human skills or soft skills for 99 U And it was I think the last physical event they had my background is I'm an event producer and experience designer curator of conferences And I'm the one bringing together the workshop experience side of things As we look at this idea of at the time it was like the future of work And then also I think the future of leadership has is really connected with that as well we recognized that there was a massive change that people weren't going to be working the same This is all ahead of the pandemic and we wanted to help change that And now obviously the pandemic threw a few things off in terms of doing more of these workshops or events But I think it's great now to look at it in terms of reinventing companies or the way in which people work from the inside out and how can that be applied And in this case certainly the idea of applying that to climate designers is really interesting and around the scope of leadership Sarah: [00:03:39] Yeah for sure in our work educating designers we've definitely found that there's a real need at a certain point in a designer's career to learn these leadership skills one of the things I like to talk about is the design index fund is a group that analyzed in 2015 they analyzed the difference between I think it was 10 Design led companies and contrasted them with the S and P 500 And they compared these 10 design led companies with the value of the stock market over 10 years And they found that design improved the performance of these design led companies by 211% So that's what I like to talk about is the the value of design and what it brings to these companies So design led companies meaning apple Airbnb and Pinterest And we talking about what is the value that designers bring to businesses and maybe putting like a measurable number on that and then thinking as designers as climate designers we have the choice which businesses we want to Bring that 211% value boost to And which companies we've worked for in which companies we lend our expertise to so I don't know Brian do you have some thoughts around like maybe why is it that design led companies are doing so much better than the standard S&P 500 Brian: [00:05:09] we certainly when we did our program one of the base the kind of pillars one of the four pillars that we started with around like what are the humans centered skills for the future of work And trying to think about this is it all boiled down to empathy And I do think that designers are uniquely suited in this weird and sensible way to to be very empathetic And that means they also engage in a process I guess to generalize and saying all designers but when we look at companies there is that trope of course that many companies out there still think that design is the last part of the process so how it looks And yet they still have terrible weak products and services all of that But designers perhaps are in the way they think very well equipped to see a new way of looking at the world and having that conscious approach of intention and value and how things work So as of course we know our world is getting super complex it's just clear that design needs to be a part of this people say seat at the table maybe it's driving the whole process I don't know but I think that's certainly when we heard about it when certainly I heard about climate designers it made a lot of sense to me because it's okay climate change is one of the biggest issues maybe may dwarf this pandemic it's going to be huge in the future So how can designers take the lead either internally in teams or through the work they do through their own companies through communication and storytelling I think they're well equipped in many ways It's just about perhaps bridging that gap of leadership Sarah: [00:06:32] Yeah One we talk about often as a design led company to look at is Airbnb we love their story They were founded by three designers and I'm assuming that their current status as the most valuable travel company is not due to the awesome Photoshop skills those founders have Brian: [00:06:48] Yeah I it's so funny because I work in travel right now I organized conferences around the business of travel and yeah it is Airbnb is become one of the most valuable companies in the industry but and they got they the founders came out of RISD and they They obviously had the I think there was two co-founders and then they brought on like an architect to help to build things maybe they were inspired by Steve jobs at some point who knows but they ended up in Silicon valley I don't think anybody really took him seriously at first And over time though they've really came in with their convictions about this mission of we want people to stay in other people's homes and have this air bed and breakfast experience And everyone was like you're crazy But maybe it's the strength of their beliefs or knowing that they wanted to build a community around this but somehow over time and does great design as a part of it in terms of the visual aesthetic that imbued a lot of trust but over time they've grown and the idea latched on And it's a great example I think it's also really interesting to say with companies like Airbnb or apple that they wouldn't necessarily be built in the same way as if they were started today and we're facing an entirely different set of challenges So what's the ability to see something like that kind of company for climate design or climate change in the future as well So I think it can be there designers just inherently try to see things differently and build it so it's a matter of where can we get there Sarah: [00:08:10] you mentioned that it happens over time There's design process that goes into that and iteration listening to your customers and realizing where the problems are and then making changes based on that I think is a big part of that evolving over time to become a really valuable company Shana what do you think it is that design led companies are doing differently than other companies? Shana: [00:08:29] I think the design-led companies start with designers, and so their orientation towards leadership as soon as they assume the role of being a leader is going to be very different than if you are somebody that comes up the ranks of a fortune 500 company and or you have a business background and what Brian said before about people responding to like the founders of Airbnb like you're crazy is probably what makes design leaders great because there's an openness to it Like creative leadership is all about exploring things that are out of the box so I think that needs them with people And that's what leadership's all about you have a vision of your company and then you have to have people to execute on So already having human centered design as a process that becomes more applicable to people understanding how innovation works and how there's a disruptive nature of innovation hopefully translates into people understanding that people will feel disrupted in the process of the business being disruptive and then I think also the The point about empathy when you talk about leadership competencies empathy is one of the qualities that ranks the highest after vision you're going to lead somebody that has a clear vision And then after that you want to feel appreciated You want to feel seen that's what's going to excite you and inspire you to follow so I think that all of these qualities is probably what has a lot to do with why design led companies and also anyone that's doing working in design realizes that they have to collaborate And whereas people on top might be managing top down There's no way when you're working as a designer with everybody that it takes to get a product you have to collaborate and being a collaborative leader just makes you a stronger leader Marc: [00:10:14] Great So I want So I want to circle back to what Brian said a few seconds ago So what would a design led company focusing on climate actually look like So maybe Shana do you have any thoughts on that on that Shana: [00:10:23] I think that if you're not thinking about climate I don't know what you're thinking about I think we've all heard the comment If we don't have a planet to live on and live in in a way place where there's clean air and everything else that we need to thrive like really in no business So I think that it's so shortsighted not to understand your larger impact and how you are in a larger eco ecosystem in general so I think in terms of design-led companies focusing on climate I think one is you need to be deliberate about it and know that this is something you're tackling It Can't just be something that you're adding on later I think it has to be designed into the whole process and I think it's just not necessarily climate out there It could be like how are you using resources How are you figuring out recycling What is the impact of your own business has on the environment start close to home we can't do a lot about what's happening in multinational companies I have to think across the globe like start local in terms of impact and I think it's just there's so many tools that designers and design companies have like circular design back in the day when people were talking about cradle to cradle understanding if we're using raw materials how they're going to end up so we think that all of these things may be accompanies thinking more like social impact but at the end of the day it's absolutely connected to climate And so I think also making that intellectual connection is really essential that it's not just this term that I always feel is spread on everything what does social impact mean Anyway that's the social piece but what about the environmental side Brian: [00:12:01] it's so interesting So we're being very general right So it's designers we're painting designers with one brush and we're painting the climate change problem with another as well it's such a complex issue and yet no matter what kind of designer you are or what company you work in or what you see your role being it's I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how can and I think what we would embark on in a kind of Leadership dedicated summit here And what I'm also excited to hear from people in the questions and hear from their individual problems is trying to say how can we engage in a process And whether it be project based within a company and yes you could say it's is it just fulfilling some kind of CSR type need versus them understanding a larger intrinsic problem of in global issue where do you start small or do they are they looking to reinvent their entire company Either way I think designers are the ones that can really help lead the way in which a company tackles this And it may just be storytelling and maybe design thinking and embarking on that process But if a designer imagines themselves as the CEO is the leader of a company and where would they across the board look at these different gears that are operating and how whether it be data analytics or just analysis and feedback and all of this stuff how can we actually understand the impact of the company and then change operations and try to make maybe drastic everybody has even if they're a big company they're going to run into financial concerns of saying putting the brakes on it saying this is too much but trying to make the case that it's going to be much better in the longterm to affect change now in many ways I guess how can designers be at the helm for not only that conversation but strategy in terms of how a company is able to tackle that and maybe it's instilling that core belief across the company thinking empathetically again about I understand each person's job and their challenge And here's how I'm going to help to see that tackle it bring it into the process and not trying to bulldoze through these things is I think is also something I would expect designers might approach in terms of how they bark on this change throughout a company a design led company So I hope that again I think it would be great to then really get more granular with actual examples but yeah Sarah: [00:14:14] yeah Yeah For sure Shana: [00:14:14] I'll add that also when I ran an incubator for Google for design entrepreneurs and one thing we realized that maybe designers don't articulate enough of is they're actually trained to become strategists they're problem solvers they're communication specialists They know how to shape chaos into something that communicates powerfully And these are all really incredibly important skills that tie back in terms of a leader to vision Like again who do you look to To follow somebody that actually has it an idea ahead that they have a true north they have a destination and then basically we're inspired to get on board with that leader And so I think where designers can start to insert themselves even within a company is being intrapreneurial starting with where are the gaps Where are the issues what is the head of the company and people that have a C in their title like CTOs CIO CFO CTO there's so many see there's like chief data chief data officer what are they missing that you can see That is a really unique quality that people that go through design school get trained on And then how do you package that up to communicate what's needed then I think finally it's like compelling communication is a huge part of when I've seen design curriculums It's not good enough to communicate but you need to be Succinct and compelling and get to the point and to persuade And so I think that when you really see that as your skillset you can almost shift your lens to somebody to to the type of person within a team that can really affect very significant change Brian: [00:15:58] one of the modules in our workshop generally is influence and persuasion And I think that's a big part of this climate change arguably has become this political issue and it's something that becomes emotional for some And it's about how do we actually show people in many ways that even seemingly minute or infinitesimal changes now can have massive effects in the future or how can why do I need to worry about this problem in the future And I know that I'm sure many of us could try to tell that story til we're blue in the face but at the same time trying to engage in a process in that and thinking about also of course profitability for our company and answering that equation is going to be inherent in that process too So it's there's no one path but I do think that's part of that empathetic journey that would be really great is as long as people are willing to hear it to a certain degree. Sarah: [00:16:46] Nice Shana when you were talking about meeting with the different heads of different departments and the CTO and the CEO it reminded me of my background in software startups in Silicon valley I was trained as a graphic designer and then I was mostly self-taught as a UX designer I just fell into the role and I was never formally trained in leadership but I Just graduate graduated into that role through experienced And one of the things that you were talking about something that I would just do because I wanted to help everybody in the company do what they do better And so I would meet with every head of every departments as the sole designer at the company to just see how everybody was using the product and where the gaps were It was just something that I highly recommend people start doing if nobody else is doing it I'm getting back to now that we know how valuable leadership skills are to a designer's ability to change and improve business practices and products which is exactly what we're trying to do as climate designers Or we're trying to help them change their practices to become more sustainable regenerative innovative eco-friendly All the things so obviously this requires companies to do things differently than they currently are so as a designer who might come into a company like I was in my roles I was hired as a UI designer And then I just started doing product management cause nobody else was doing it and became head of product And it was just what I did but if you're not as a cheeky as I am I guess how would someone go about learning these skills and can it be done more quickly than 10 or 15 years of the school of hard knocks Like I did I made a lot of mistakes of course and learned a lot from those mistakes but is there a way to teach people these leadership skills more quickly and less painfully?Shana: [00:18:39] Yeah I think the first thing is the best way to lead is to start with a project that you take the lead role on because leadership training can become very academic like to listen to somebody talk about how to lead You're not leading yourself is a little bit hard to follow so I think as somebody that's working within a company the first step would be like listening for what's needed listening for where there's a gap listening where there's an opportunity And then the proverbial raise your hand and offer to take initiative and get started because you're not going to really learn how to lead until you have people that are following you that's the whole point And I think it's also it's not necessarily a lead follow dynamic It could be how do you lead There's three types of leadership There's no top-down you're just like the commander there's a leader lead leading by the side and there's also leading from behind And so part of really picking your leadership style won't be possible until you start to interact with people to see how does your personality drive with another person's and how do you need to keep aware of what the dynamics at play are so that you can figure out how to you adjust yourself Because telling other people what to do and being critical is not going to get the best out of people So there's so much that goes on with like observation and like a test and learn if I speak this way to somebody what kind of impact am I going to get If I give somebody feedback in this way so I think a lot of it comes down to really coming from a place of curiosity and as much as it's like the worst news and leadership is it's really about self-knowing The better You understand yourself the better you understand where your own landmines are the better you understand what irritates you that's step one like the consciousness piece And then the sec step two in leadership is called self-management meaning manage your self because you cannot manage other people easily but you can start to course correct for the way you're coming off and how to do that as you're observing all the time what is the response What's the look on somebody's face we're all on zoom so much Most of us are probably not paying attention but most of us are very emotive through our our face Or our body like as a coach I was been trained look at somebody's body If they're all of a sudden tensing up and their shoulders are way up to their ears or if they have a stance that looks you know stressed out chances are the body is the biggest indicator to understand what's going on and the head and the heart so like circling back to this in terms of like how to do it is start off with offering yourself up to take the lead on something and be passionate about it and then get great people around you so that they know you're not going to be perfect None of us are on and that you're there to to keep learning together as a group I think that the more it's about us and less about me and you where there's that separation I think people tend to create a lot more psychological safety which is one of the main principles in a leadership and team study that Google did a few years ago where they found that when we feel safe with other people we work much better We can deal with conflicts as they raise We can Give each other feedback And these are all of the things that kind of get us back to a place of optimal working and getting things done And everything else gets in a way of just not being productive is not so much about the work it's usually about relationships So I guess it's a good in the bad news it's easier to learn a skill That's a hard skill like coding or graphic design or customer development research but it's much harder to deal with people cause we're not taught it you're often not taught it from parents Your friends don't teach this to you Most religious education Isn't about how to show up you can read a book that doesn't really help you flex the muscles around How do you change your behavior so yeah unfortunately I think our school systems need to start teaching a lot more about all of these what Brian and I are adamant are human skills They are not soft They are not easy and mean I think we would all have a better day in and day out experience if we were just a lot kinder.Brian: [00:22:56] The connective tissue We often say I think a lot of people say that but yeah sure Yeah Sarah: [00:23:00] Brian do you have thoughts around specifically how long is it going to take to learn these kinds of skills Brian: [00:23:06] Yeah that's the funny part cause it's it could be instant or take a lifetime it's I think of these things as a practice and it's funny going back to the soft skills idea at the same time Shana I was listening to what you were saying and thinking about perhaps what designers bring as they also bring a willingness to engage in a process And if we thought about employing some Even product design process to a challenge like this that is complex because of humans And really if we think about something as large as climate change and and addressing that within a company and all of these questions that might come up people have problems understanding what they need to know or how much they need to know before they take action And anytime people have to make choices it's about are they changing their mind or being told to change their mind And so it's all of these things And yet if we demystify that and take it into a process and use our strengths as well there's times where I think Shana you say let's take our design hat off or keep it on or off I I think there's times where it's just let's not just be a designer because I think that can could be limiting in some ways too And be broader than that But At the same time using our skills and engaging in a process and knowing who you're leading the company you're at and what their goals are and what matters to them And then using that to think about how can we bring that into this process And anytime we're trying to start something ambitious or disruptive and there has to be some patience in terms of how long it takes but I also think that participation as far as bringing people into that makes it gives them a little bit of comfort and the agency and the fact that they can maybe be a part of that growth together with you And you're just helping lead it versus any sort of force feeding of here Let's get into this thing We have to do something on climate change Like people just I'm sure it can glaze over but any good Shana: [00:24:57] Yeah they've done so much study on knowing facts doesn't actually — that's not the tipping point for people. You can deliver up lots of data and lots of knowledge…And with designers understanding what goes into customer development and interviewing and design research It's applied that to human experience, Like how is it that we change? What makes us change? What when are we willing to go through something painful to know that on the other side is a benefit? Meaning if we have to stop — if you're thirsty are you going to not buy a bottle of water because you've forgotten all about water ball at home — what is that deprivation piece? That that's just an example of — we all know, yeah, Bring your own water bottle, you forget — And when you're a designer thinking to that specific example to bring back into your work, so then how do you, How do you figure out what that behavioral change piece is for the work you're doing in your job? Knowing that all of us — we know these things and we still, there's some reason that we're still not getting it. So I think the more concrete you can think of examples around change, what are the skill sets you've been taught, And then to think, again, as designers are trained to do, think outside the box, for the impact that you want to make within climate and your job and hopefully a project that you'll take on as an intrapreneur within a company to start to flex those leadership muscles. Brian: [00:26:25] And just to speak to one of the questions cause I do think it relates to this as in terms of designers dreaming big and how do you create something that's approachable or something that you know especially with leading it you understand that it can actually get off the ground is how can it have a beginning and an end? And what's the goal, That's something that you can ship, that is actually Achievable and put some boundaries on it versus something as broad as climate change and just broader initiatives — what's our key … I work with a lot of destinations globally and they often wonder what's the KPIs of what we're measuring the effect of what we are doing as a destination as a city in terms of our own initiatives or the actual overall environmental benefit or sustainability of how our entire city is achieving it is it on that big macro level or is it just really how we've had our own little benchmarks And I think it's a hard balance those tactics are some of the hardest questions to answer but at least if you define it give it some parameters and guardrails then that may help set it up for success and leading the next project that proving it out for the next time and continuing on. Marc: [00:27:32] Great Great So maybe this is a great question to wrap up with So many of our community members are designers obviously and they're working with companies who might be a little resistant to adopting innovative sustainable approaches when it comes to doing less harm to the planet especially because of these approaches often costs more ,might take longer to get into production, all that stuff .So I'm wondering if you all have any tips or ways that designers can approach companies or even clients that are maybe a little bit resistant to doing more — creating more of a sustainable approach? Shana: [00:28:04] The good news is that it's possible The bad news for most of us is that to get the attention of these leaders use you have to talk about how it's going to hit their profit and loss their P and L sheet So you have to figure out a very clever way to make the case for Implementing this change will actually save the company money. And I know that sounds so crass and so disconnected and so horrible. But the truth is that's where a company will change behavior. So taking us away for just one second from climate into diversity, equity, and inclusion — companies are now starting to implement these policies because they're getting sued. So they're willing to spend money on it and they're willing to make change because it's costing them money. They realized — McKinsey did a huge report (That's a management consulting firm that has global offices) that diverse teams, actually, they could find a lot more ROI with a product or a service when a diverse team came together to do the production. So using the example that's not climate, So climate designers need to learn from that and figure out — maybe you're doing a presentation on, what's the short term is that maybe we can't save you money, The medium term is when you start to save money, and the long-term is when you're going to save lots of money. And part of the the convincing factor is for this company to be so shortsighted, maybe there's another competitor around the corner That's going to take market share if this isn't implemented quicker also. Because most of us that are conscious consumers if we have to choose between two companies that do the exact same thing and one is more conscious around climate and ethics, most of us are going to put our money down to align with our own values. So I think, again, just to restate what I stated, you have to take a big detour off what you're used to doing, which is, again, to try and convince them, because to all of us it makes sense. But for people that are being driven by profit you just — it's a translation. You just have to learn their language, speak it, do all of your convincing in their language and pull it back to what you know is better. And that's that comes back to the leadership piece. That's the vision that you have that they don't have. That comes back to persuasion. You having the capacities and the competencies to take somebody that doesn't agree, And again, use your skills to get what you want. And again, I think, be willing to realize that this might not be a straight path forward. That you're going to have to take some back country roads, but keep your true north so that you get back to where you want to go. So that's why I said the good and the bad news. Yes, It's doable, too, You have to be very clever in how you do it Brian: [00:30:47] Yeah I think the motivator may not always be money either I think understanding where if we keep talking about a general company what are those things that they hold sacred or that is truly most important maybe fear can be a motivator maybe because if apple were built today at launching the iPhone is revealed to be like super environmentally harmful that it would have been a flop who knows but I think it's the companies today the kind of paradigm for what people are generally accepting both on a kind of public level public perception and what governments are regulating and that may continue to evolve So there may be that fear of paradigm of here's this facing problem that we're going to have to figure out And we can use design thinking or a process to engage in this in a different way or it may just be that there's a intrinsic mission to doing good in the world and we just need a way to get there and to try and think about again shepherding that I think so often people have that process or that goal in mind but then you get into somewhat of a process and you realize it's going nowhere fast And so maybe the analytics and ability to bring back some feedback come into come into a process and evaluation of work would really be helpful here And that could be small that doesn't have to be like we're design thinking experts That could be just even in a small business like a designer could say Look I think I can help us get there it's I think it's about stepping up in many ways too And just sharing saying let me help figure out this process or I think I could help here So Shana: [00:32:19] I think it's also examples If you can point to examples where in your industry using innovation and sustainable practices has worked that's really helpful tool that would be my addition Sarah: [00:32:31] Yeah yeah so what I'm hearing from you is holding that vision of the bigger picture you're trying to help the business create a brand And so maybe one of the choices that you need to make in the short term might be [more] expensive But if you remember that it also costs money to do build to do brand building activities they're actually saving money from that other place because this is actually a brand building choice and just like thinking more holistically about that. Brian: [00:33:01] Yeah It won't be a straight line ever And I think anyone looking for a straight line of here's some sort of profitability out of making these changes that's never going to be the case but I think yeah maybe getting the company to feel more comfort with discomfort maybe having the confidence in yourself to help lead that process I think those would all be a part of it and a lot of the skills and approaches that we look at in in the workshops they vary depending on the use case And I do think it's interesting to say how can we all build our arsenal of these skills and employ them at different times and know when to use them so often it's just that people don't even really take the first step in terms of embarking on even picking one of them it may just be a little bit of trial and error but yeah I think that's stepping up and saying I'm going to bring a sense that and shepherd it is going to be important Yeah Sarah: [00:33:50] Yeah it's a whole host of skills. Shana: [00:33:51] I think the idea about how can designers get the seat at the table and a what's so critical about being at the table is you want to be understanding what the leaders of your companies interests are. What their concerns are, what obstacles are they facing? So that's why you want to be at the table, and then how do you get there is probably a little bit more complex but I think it all comes down to, as much as you can, understand like what's going on with your company — how to get visibility in your company, what kind of committees might be around. Like how do you start to understand what the larger strategy of your company is. Yeah, I think that all of those play really an important part in trying to make change. Because, like, sustainable solutions are really effective, but if you can't convince anyone to do them and you don't know the language in which it's going to be effective then just remains an idea. And all of us just remain very frustrated that we don't see things changing. Sarah: [00:34:48] For sure I liked Shana how you brought in the example of diversity inclusion. And just to draw the analogy for anyone who wasn't paying attention, we are seeing similar trends in the climate space now where companies that have not been kind to their environmental ecosystems are being brought up into courts and maybe facing not just activism action but also legal action. And so part of what you're doing by adopting some of these sustainable practices is prevention of future liabilities like that. I feel like we could talk about this for another hour but we do want to have a little bit of time for live audience questions. Before we do that, do either of you have anything else you'd like to share, or just tell us how people can learn more about your work and connect with you online? Shana: [00:35:41] I don't have anything else to add. I'm really curious to hear what people's questions are. For me, I have two websites: One's ShanaDressler.com and that's my executive coaching work. And I also have a leadership consultancy called turquoise and the URL is turquoise.nyc. I do a lot of my work is project-based meaning working on soft skills training on an actual project which I found to be much more effective than pulling people off site to do a lot of disconnected just to bring in different workshop exercises and then they don't know how to then apply it back to their work. So that's a little bit about me Brian: [00:36:18] Yeah And I'm really curious to learn about everyone's work as climate designers here but I would say with regard to Shana and myself reach out to Shana if it's something around the leadership training or the workshop that could be achieved. And I think that's a great place to start the conversation, we talk all the time but to channel things I think it'd be helpful to reach to Shana and or yeah I'm always excited about this. And I need to like look at more conversations on Twitter now and everything just to find out what are the ideas. And whereas the communities that are talking about this, I'm very intrigued. Marc: [00:36:47] Great Great And before we wrap up just wanted to mention this to as many of you are listening and joining us live that climate designers is all about action, right? We're all about providing our community members with the tools and resources that they need to put climate at the center of their work And so we'd love to offer you all ways to level up and step into those leadership roles And so we're excited to be working with Shana and Brian on creating some sort of program to do that, and just full transparency, we don't really think that this program exists anywhere — the idea of bridging design, climate, and leadership. And so as many of you know Sarah and I over the last however many months of building out climate designers we're really building the bike as we ride it in regards to creating this whole initiative. And so we're all on this journey together. We're co-creating the skills We feel you all climate designers need to have to take climate action. And we're really Excited to announce that we're going to be hopefully creating this program with Shana and Brian. So if you're interested in taking part in this program head to climate designers dot org slash leadership and you can sign up for more details as we build out the program and launch it and all those amazing things. Yeah. So maybe with that, Shana, Brian, and thank you all for joining us on the on the podcast. And for those listening don't forget to subscribe, share this episode with any colleagues and the people that you work with that would benefit from listening to this interview

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What do Archie, Biblical Apocalypse fiction, and Erik Estrada all have in common? It turns out each of these appeared in stories published by Spire Christian Comics.  Join us as we journey through history to learn about and cringe at one of the craziest publishers to come out of the 1970s. ----more---- Episode 6 Transcription [00:00:00] Jessika: Yeah. How are you going to display your deceased cult leader's body if you don't have a Tik Tok? Welcome to Ten Cent Takes, the podcast where we predict the coming of the end of days. One issue at a time. My name is Jessika Frazer and I am joined by my cohost, the savior of sweets, Mike Thompson. Mike: Eeeeeey. Jessika: The purpose of our podcast is to study comic books in ways that are both fun and informative. We want to look at their coolest, weirdest and silliest moments, as well as examine how they're woven into the larger fabric of pop culture and history. Today, we're taking a turn for the religious as we look at  Spire Christian Comics. We'll look at the [00:01:00] history behind the publication, the comics and the books they were based upon and discuss how Archie played a role in trying to educate the youths about Jesus. Mike: What. Jessika: Yeah, that's happening. Okay. I know we say this every week, but this was once again a rabbit hole filled episode. So buckle up, friends. Mike: It's almost like we're developing a theme. Jessika: Oh no. Yes. I like it though. Mike: They're worse themes to have. Jessika: There are. There are. Before we get to our main topic and the one cool thing we've read and talked about lately, let's call upon the fact that it is May 4th and May the Fourth be with you, Mike. Mike: And May the Fourth be with you. Jessika: Well, I thank you. For the record: Let it be known that I am wearing an R2D2 printed dress and I have Leia buns. So I am dressed appropriately and I saw that your household was also celebrating. [00:02:00] Mike: Yeah. We festooned everything, but we didn't have any Star Wars outfits to wear, unfortunately. So we just threw up  Star Wars comics around the household in front of our Vader poster and other things that we have. But I have a couple of the really old Dark Horse comics that I absolutely love and adore. Jessika: That's so fun. I love it. Well, we like to do something each week called One Cool Thing You've Read or Watched Lately. Mike, why don't you start us off? Mike:  Sure. So this weekend I wound up reading through DC’s Doomsday Clock collection on Hoopla.  It's basically the official comic book sequel to Watchmen.  It finally delivers the payoff that DC set up back in 2017 when they revealed Dr. Manhattan was involved in the creation of both the New 52 and Rebirth universes. Have you read Watchman?  Jessika: I haven’t read it, no. Mike: Okay.  It's one of those iconic series that everybody loves to talk about. [00:03:00] And to be honest, it's one that I never really enjoyed because I felt that I had a pretty nihilistic tone. But I've read it. I appreciate what it did for comics in the era. It was interesting. I read this and I actually was pretty sour at the start, mainly because I wasn't sure that I liked the story because again, it felt pretty nihilistic and ugly. That said, I actually really enjoyed the way that everything paid off at the end. Primarily the idea that there's now a quote unquote metaverse in the DC continuity, which feels like honestly the best response to all the different universe resets that they've been doing since the 80s   it wound up being  hopeful with a surprisingly sweet ending. I mean, it's not as good as the HBO series that came out around the same time, but it's pretty damn good. How about you?  Jessika:  I recently purchased the comic book Fangs by Sarah Anderson.  Mike: I haven’t heard of this. Jessika:  [00:04:00] it's super adorable. It's about the unfolding relationship of a vampire and a werewolf and how they relate. And co-exist in random life situations. Yeah. Like the werewolf eating garlic and going to kiss the vampire. And she has a reaction to it.  Mike: That’s really cute, actually. Jessika:  Yeah. Or their inability to take a selfie together because she doesn't show up on camera. So all of his friends are asking , we haven't ever seen your girlfriend before. Like, why can't you just post a picture? Mike: Oh, that's great. Jessika: So I highly recommend this. If you're looking for a lighthearted fun and wholesome comic, it's just been super nice and mellow, and it's been a good ease to my busy brain. Mike: Nice. Yeah, I'll have to check that out. Jessika: Onto our main topic,  Spire Christian Comics. So I mentioned on a prior episode that I ran across some use comics, at an estate sale for a dollar each. [00:05:00] So how could I not buy all of them? I legit didn't even look at them until after I'd left the sale. But when I did all, I was in for a real treat. The Archie one that was in the stack really didn't catch me off guard. That one seemed pretty basic Archie from the looks of the cover, but the other one was amazing.  Do you remember, I messaged you a picture of the covers and you were the one who discovered  the Spire Christian Comics brand for us. Mike: Yes I do. Jessika:  Yeah, that was fun. I just could not believe I found these. And when I sat down to do my research, I wasn't sure how much information there really was surrounding these. But like I said earlier, buckle up friends. This was a rabbit hole journey that I will gladly take you on. One that includes Jesus,  Archie, Erik Estrada, and more. [00:06:00]  Mike: Wait, the guy from CHIPS? Jessika: Yes, the very same. Mike: Is this more or less embarrassing than that weird  land sale thing that he was doing about 10 or 15 years ago? Jessika: I'll let you decide we will talk about it. Mike: I'm strapping in, my body is ready. Jessika: Well, before we dig too deep, and since we'll be talking about religion a lot, this episode, Mike, what is your religious background and where do you currently stand?  Mike: Um, so I like to joke that my family views me as the failed experiment because I didn't really turn out like they were hoping. And a large part of that is basically because I swiped left on organized religion as soon as I got a choice. Patton Oswalt talks about the concept of "it's all chaos be kind" in his special Annihilation, and that's kind of where I stand these [00:07:00] days. But I grew up surrounded by a religion. I was raised Episcopalian. We went to church almost every Sunday. And a large portion of my bedtime stories were from the Bible story book. My mom is from Texas also. So I've got several Baptist ministers on that side of the family, including a televangelist. Yeah. And to his credit, he has never been implicated in a scandal.  There's never really been anything bad about him. I don't want to name him because, you know, I don't want to make things awkward, but  and his family have always been very kind to my family. I know they helped my mom out a lot when she was in college. And I see him on TV or I used to, when I had TV,  I would see him appear every now and then on the early morning, sermon services every now and then. And I certainly didn't agree with everything he said, but it was just  always weird and surreal to turn on the TV, at say 6:00 AM, while I was getting ready for work or whatever and there he was. [00:08:00] I mean, growing up me and my siblings would actually go to Texas for  portions of our summers. And we would go to church with our extended family. So it was really different than what we were used to. I actually, I wasn't allowed to get my driver's license until I met certain criteria for my parents. One of those things was that I had to get confirmed and I never really had much of a personal connection with religion. And my parents made the mistake of telling me that I didn't have to go to church anymore after I got confirmed. So I wound up taking them up on that, and that was kinda much to their chagrin. And then additionally, my first degree was in history and my oral exit exam was a presentation talking about the Catholic church and how it would cement its power around the world by breaking up old nations and then forming new ones that were beholden to it. So I'd like to think I'm relatively well-informed about the various aspects and sects of Christianity, but I don't really have any spiritual [00:09:00] beliefs of my own. I just, I try to be a good person for the sake of being a good person. Not because I want to be rewarded in a theoretical afterlife. Jessika: Yeah, I agree with that. It makes me nervous when people tell me  or make it appear that religions the thing holding them back from making bad decisions. I'm like, that's really creepy. So I guess religion is for you, like. But I was raised for the first part of my life as a Lutheran, and that included  going to church. We did preschool at the Lutheran church, but we didn't continue going to church after middle school-ish. There was just some congregation changes, I think with the pastor that my parents are just like, "Oh, we don't really like this new guy." I'm sure life just got busy. Cause you know, I was however, from 11 until I was probably about 20 actually, was involved in a Masonic girls organization, which had backgrounds in religion. But that felt very secular. We definitely had some [00:10:00] girls who were Jewish. We had girls of all different religions, girls were Catholic and we actually made it a point of the person who was the Honored Queen or the kind of president they were voted in. Mike: Was that the actual term, was it honored queen? Jessika: It was honored queen, by the way, past Honored Queen, here we are. It's a whole thing. You have to memorize so much stuff. Mike: So can I just next time I see you in person, just be like, Hey Queen.  Jessika: Oh yeah. I'm actually a queen. So it's fine. And that term doesn't leave me cause I may past Honored Queen, so still a queen. Yeah. But as honored queen, they made it a point for, in at least in our Bethel. I don't know if everybody did this but in our particular chapter we would go with the honored queen to her church. I didn't have a church at the time, so I don't think I even did that. But we went to a Catholic church. We went to some Episcopalian. I mean, we, we did a lot of different [00:11:00] church visiting and so I did get a lot of hear a lot of different aspects and like ways manners that this information or information in general was being portrayed. And at this point in my life, I consider myself agnostic because the, "are we alone out there?”question seems a little above my pay grade to answer, in my opinion.  I'm not willing to commit that there's  nothing happening, but I'm also  not willing to commit to, yes, this is happening. So I'll leave it to other people to figure that whole thing out for me. Mike: That seems like a pretty fair stance to take. Jessika: Yeah. Just stay out of it. Someone wants to bring me along. They can, I guess.  So I want to list the resources that I use whole researching this topic and want to make sure I give these websites  the proper credit. So Baker [00:12:00] publishing group.com. You don't read comics dot com, Christian comics, international.org, comics alliance.com, biblio.com, wikipedia for one article, and Hal Lindsey's there's a new world coming through archive.org, which has a wonderful text to speech accessibility feature, which saved me a great deal of time. Mike: I didn't know that they did text to speech. That's rad. Jessika: It was amazing. Yeah. And I figured that out and you can speed it up. So I listened to it at two times the speed.  Mike: Nice. That’s really cool. Jessika: So yeah, that being said it did mean that I was listening to Hal Lindsey, uh, his book in robot speech. Cause it wasn't like a normal voice. It was text to speech like robot, lady speaking. So that was a trip to hear about the rapture through that. Mike: I mean, if you're going to listen to narration about the Rapture, I guess a robot on meth does seem like the best way to do it. Jessika: Oh, I would say so. [00:13:00] I wouldn't have it any other way. So Spire Christian comics were published through what is now the Baker publishing group, but was originally founded in 1870 as the Fleming H Revell company by a man by the same name, along with his brother-in-law, American evangelist Dwight L Moody. Their ultimate goal was to make Christian literature both more plentiful and more widely available, but they didn't start with comics and the company didn't entertain that idea until many years and many significant organizational changes had gone by, there seemed to be so much drama surrounding the ownership and running of this company, which I'm not going to get into here, that there was no mention in their company's history that these comics were even ever published.  Mike: Really? Jessika: Yeah.  Mike: That’s wild. Jessika: Yeah. Kind of funny, huh? Mike: Yeah, that's crazy. Jessika: In 1972. Al Hartley, freelance illustrator for comics like Archie and [00:14:00] Marvel was hired to make adaptations of some of the popular Christian novels that had been published by the Fleming H Revell company. This felt like a very appropriate and timely move for Hartley who had recently become a Born-Again Christian in 1967 and had chosen to quit working with Marvel because the owner at the time, Martin Goodman, asked Hartley to illustrate some risque scenes for some of his men's magazines, Hartley preferred quitting, rather than sacrificing his moral values in his art.   Mike: Was Hartley the artist who actually illustrated the books we read for today? Jessika: Yes, He was. Hartley was the one who illustrated the ones that we read for this episode. Although I'll talk about a little bit later, there is a little bit of mystery surrounding the artistry with There's A New World Coming, even though his name is on the cover.  I want to give you an example of one of the [00:15:00] adaptations that Hartley penned, other than the one you and I read. And we'll talk about that one in a little bit,  I'm gonna send you the, a couple of things to look at.  And the first one is the cover of the novel, the Cross and the Switchblade. Can you please describe this for me? Mike: This really looks like  a low budget thriller from the 19... probably the 1960s is what I  associate this with. There's three colors. Well, four. There's four colors. There's yellow, green, black, and white. So. The background is entirely green. There is a really, it's like a really rough illustration style of a very stylized dude running with a knife. And the knife stands out because this dude is entirely done in scratchy, all black kind of almost pencil. And then the knife is the one piece of white. He is running from another shadowy figure. There is, it looks like a ruined city in the [00:16:00] background then much more clearly illustrated drawn in white is a church, cause you can see the steeple with,  the large cross and it says the Cross And The Switchblade. "The thrilling, true story of a country preacher's fight against teenage crime and big city slums!" Which, OK. Written by the Reverend David Wilkerson with John and Elizabeth Sherrell and John and Elizabeth Sherrell's billing on this title is a little bit smaller than the Reverend David and, it's $1.95 from Spire Books. Jessika: Oh yeah. Spoiler alert It is self starring. Yeah that is why his name is so large. His name is all up in that thing. He didn't even change it It's just in there.   The next is the cover of the movie adaptation.  Can you please describe the cover and read the first couple actors names at the bottom there for me.  Mike: Jesus Christ. Okay. So the title the [00:17:00] cross and the switchblade  is spray painted across some decaying brick. It's standing out from all the other graffiti that's on there and it says “now an explosive motion picture.” It's got what I'm assuming is the reverend, kind of like a  glamour shot. And then he's surrounded by smaller  shots of all the different people who are going to be taking an active role in this story. On the other side of his head it looks like he's being menaced by a "street tough," I don't quite know how to describe the kid other than that. He looks like a character from the Outsiders. That's just immediately where I'm going  cause he's got a leather jacket and it looks like M and M written on the back of his jacket I'm not entirely sure. Cause it's sort of cut off and then underneath them there's a bunch of young men of various ethnicities running and they're all holding  bats, I guess.  I'm not seeing any switchblades other than the one  that's being held by the tough who's menacing the priest. And then there is - Oh my God- so  there is the original book cover that I just [00:18:00] described  in the lower corner and it says next to it  "bares the raw needs at the core of drug addiction, racial hatred, and violence. NEVER -in all caps- has a film been more timely." Um starring Pat Boone as David Wilkerson with Eric Estrada. Oh, there he is. I'm not recognizing any of the other names. Jessika: No. Those were the only ones I needed. He's the street tough  Mike: I was going say  now that I realize that Erik Estrada is in this that is a very young Erik Estrada who is clearly in the salad days of his career. God. Jessika: Lastly  can you please describe the cover of the comic adaptation for me? Mike: I don't know if I want to. Wow. Okay This is way different! So it's again David Wilkerson's the cross and the switchblade is that the same style? [00:19:00]  It's meant to look like it's graffitied on and that there's the dripping graffiti. There's no delicate way to say what it actually looks like. It looks like jizz.. Jessika: It does. It's bad Mike: It’s really unfortunate. Like I don't know how else to describe it.  And then you have a well-dressed for the seventies dude  being menaced by again Erik Estrada his character  and he's surrounded by a bunch of   people of color who are all staring on and not really concerned  with the impending violence that's about to happen, except for one white girl who looks terrified. And then Erik Estrada character’s going "I could kill you, preach." And then the preacher is going, "yes you could Nicky. You could cut me up in a thousand pieces,  and every piece will say I love you." Jessika: Ugh, vomit. Mike: Oh God everything about this is just it is extra. Jessika:  It's a whole thing. [00:20:00] Mike:  Every variation that we've seen has started off at 11 and then it's just kept on turning it up from there. Jessika: Yeah and spoiler: Thematically, the racism is there for just…  Mike: You don’t say. Jessika: Yeah. Oh yeah It's just  rampant. Mike: Based on just what little I'm seeing here it looks like a literal white savior Jessika: Oh that's a hundred percent what it is. So really the comic was an adaptation of a movie that was an adaptation of a book. So the TLDR is that Nicky, played by Erik Estrada as we saw, is a troubled gang leader in New York city finds Jesus. Mike: I gotta say that does not look like New York on the comic cover. Jessika: No it doesn’t. They didn't do a great job with that. I don't know why, it's not hard to make a city look like New York. You can pretty much pen [00:21:00] any random looking city. And it probably is going to look like part of New York. But good job guys. Mike: Well especially because  you said that Al Hartley was a Marvel artist. Like all of the Marvel stories back then were taking place in New York. It’s not like he didn’t know what it looked like. Jessika: Maybe he forgot this time. Mike: Alright, whatever. Jessika: So Erik Estrada finds Jesus through the help of a persistent small town priest who comes to the big city to make a big difference in the lives of the troubled youth, who in his estimation just need to find Jesus's love. And that's how Erik Estrada became a comic book character, because the comic is based on him. That is based on his actual person I'm sure you've noticed. Mike: I wouldn't want to admit that that comic character was based on me but all right. Jessika: I mean there's probably a reason you haven't heard about it.   Mike: How successful was this movie? I've never heard of this before.  Jessika: I haven't heard of it either [00:22:00] And you know I didn't look that up unfortunately. Yeah. So it's a mystery. Maybe I'll update us later. Maybe I'll do more research about the Cross and the Switchblade. Along with book adaptations, the comics were also centered around the comic series that Hartley is  arguably best to known for: Archie. Hartley reached out to John Goldwater, who was the president of Archie at the time, who agreed for Archie to be included in the Spire Christian Comics publications. The comics themselves were meant as an introduction to non-believers to bridge the religious gap in a manner that was friendly to all ages. In total there were 57 comic titles published under Spire Christian comics, 19 of them were Archie.   Mike: Wow.  Jessika: Yeah I know, right? 12 were biographical and they did actually pull, I was reading on another article,  they did pull some of the themes from the Spire [00:23:00] comics and put them into regular Archie but just de-Jesused them. So if you read one you might say this sounds really familiar. Well it's probably because you've read  what actually was an adaptation version which was now regular what we would consider.  There were 12 biographical or autobiographical comics including the likes of Johnny Cash and a handful of stories pulled directly from the Bible along with other miscellaneous adaptations and some Christian comics aimed at younger children. Hartley wrote and drew most of the comics himself but other notable figures involved Dick Ayers and Dan DeCarlo. The comics weren't all wholesome and morality-filled, however, and we talked about that a little bit earlier. There were some really problematic aspects of some of these Spire comics including that rampant racism I talked about. Even in the Archie comic that you and I read there are racist generalizations about Native Americans and their [00:24:00] clothing, speech patterns, and general attitudes and demeanors which I did not love. Opposite, in fact. There's also a comic, one of the ones considered a biography, was titled wait for it "Hansi: The Girl Who Loved the Swastika." Mike could you please describe this cover for us. Give us a treat, please. Mike: This is one of those comics also that is truly infamous, especially in the age of the internet. It's one of those things that I've at least been aware of for a few years And every time you see, it it just throws you a loop. So basically it says and  in big bold letters “Hansi” and then in smaller red lettering “the girl who loved the swastika.” And it's this very Aryan looking [00:25:00] German girl in  1930s peasantware and she is standing in front of a motorcade. There's Hitler and some concerned looking you know Nazis and then the crowd around this motorcade is throwing up the right hands and there's swastikas everywhere. Like, everywhere. It's let's see one, two, three, four, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. There are 11 swastikas on this cover and she just she looks so happy and carefree. It's wild. It's one of those things where every time you see it, the shock never goes away. Jessika: Yeah it's that's a whole vibe, not going to lie. It was based on a book titled I Changed The Gods in 1968 which, interesting title, cuz what did she really do? And it follows the life story of a German born evangelist Maria Anne Hirschman as she is indoctrinated into the [00:26:00] Hitler Youth but was later rescued by American troops.  She immigrates to the U S later in life and realizes how she had in her words been brainwashed. The comic is not subtle. Obviously. You talked about the cover just now. It's not subtle at all.  Mike: No, not even a little. Jessika: No no.  It also has a lot of really raw and adult themes like rape and violence and is incredibly overt with its Cold War propaganda at the end of the comic it was really something.    Mike: That makes sense that they would go into themes like that because it's not approved by the Comics Code so they could just throw whatever they wanted in it. Jessika: Precisely. Well Spire Christian comics were published until 1988 and were later reprinted as New Barber Christian Comics as that was one of the ever-changing names of that publishing company. Mike: Hm. That's actually longer than I would have expected for that first run. Jessika: Yeah. I thought [00:27:00] so, too. So good on them I mean that was a lot, it was a lot of publications that they did. I was surprised at how many. Mike:  Do you know if they were being sold on newsstands or were they just exclusively in  Christian bookstores. Jessika:  That's a really good question I'm not a hundred percent on that  Mike: It could’ve been both.  Jessika:  It could’ve been both, absolutely. Mike: I know that those were really those were pretty big up until the nineties. I remember couple of the local malls had Christian bookstores. Jessika: Oh absolutely. We have some still in town.  Mike: Oh, really? In Petaluma? Jessika: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I pass by a Christian science reading room on my walks with my dog. So they're around.  Mike: Hmm  Jessika: You and I read through one of those Archie's.  Mike: Sure this was effectively an anthology of Archie shorts that take place in different times and places [00:28:00] Each of the stories stars Archie and it has him facing challenges and eventually overcoming them with pretty vague help from God. Examples include him being a medieval blacksmith, he tries to slay a dragon so he can win the hand of princess Veronica. He and Jughead are space explorers visiting quote unquote twin planets with very different morality systems. There's a story about him being a World War One fighter pilot who… I'm not entirely certain what they were fighting against. Was it anti-Christian propaganda?  Was that the true enemy? Jessika: I think so, it really wasn't made abundantly clear. Mike: Yeah and then there's also this there's a really weird one which involves him randomly walking into a spooky mansion that's owned by Beelzebub, who basically traps wayward teens by getting them to sell their souls in exchange for their heart's desire. Jessika: Yeah. He was just a creepy old dude. He wouldn't let teenagers leave.  That was really what it was. Mike: I didn't understand the payoff of that, but [00:29:00] okay. Jessika: So  tell us a little bit about your thoughts on the comic as a whole. Mike: Yeah. I've got a soft spot for Archie  I fucking loved Mark Waid's run a couple of years ago. It's honestly one of the best comics out there.  Riverdale is one of my favorite horny guilty pleasures.  And the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina is also a blast. Side note: the Josie and the Pussycats movie one of my favorite soundtracks. Like, that soundtrack legit slaps. We should watch it together. We should do a viewing party sometime. Jessika: Let's I'm a hundred percent into that. Yes. Mike:  Yeah. So going back to this comic, the stories didn't really work for me?  Archie books are already incredibly family-friendly and the forced morality of evangelical Christianity just felt really… I don't know. It just it fucking rubbed me the wrong way. And on top of that the godly [00:30:00] decisions  involved prayer and strict adherence to religious tenants which I don't remember seeing anything about queer people in that Archie comic.   That kind of makes sense because Kevin Keller didn't appear until  2010. But I remember Beelzebub trying to tempt Archie with women of loose morals. And it's really bizarre to see that kind of hand ringing,  especially now,  about teenagers possibly having premarital sex because we're almost 50 years in the future from this and that is very much an accepted reality at this point. These days, at least in our household, it's like just make sure that everyone is consenting to what's going on and use protection. Jessika: Exactly. Mike: I’m assuming you and I are on similar wavelengths about this but I’m curious to hear what you thought. Jessika: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought the religious theme was just so incredibly heavy handed. It was forced together with the Archie narrative and Archie, like you said, [00:31:00] he's an overall wholesome dude in general in my opinion. But the morality lessons were really in your face. Like there's the one where he's in a saloon and he orders a milkshake. And this guy is  trying to force him to drink alcohol, and he's like "I don't want to drink alcohol." And it's like okay guy this is just so like nobody's actually going to go into the world and try to force you to drink alcohol unless you join a frat. Please don't do that though.  Mike: That would’ve been way better have Archie go join a frat. That would’ve been way better. Jessika: It would’ve have made more sense. Look at I'm already making more sense for Archie. Call me, Archie. Mike: Also it actually makes a lot of sense for Archie to go into a saloon and order a milkshake.  I kind of love that but then the follow up of “no, you need to order alcohol?” That’s dumb.  Jessika: It didn't make any sense. Overall I thought the comic was cute, had some messages, whatever. There was one section that really bugged me, though. And it was the twin planets where the two planets were exactly the [00:32:00] same except one was making good choices, the other one was making bad choices and the bad choices it was like not cleaning up after yourself. And I get there's a point some of bad choices. What was another one? Mike: Everyone steals from everyone else?  Jessika:  Yeah. Exactly exactly it's just so funny. And I get there's a point but some of the bad choices are listed as complete freedom and equality.  Mike: Yeah, that stood out to me, too. Jessika: That was bad. That was listed as bad. And I was like pump the brakes. Like, we live in a society. Come on.  Mike: This was in an era where the civil rights wasn't even really history. The Civil Rights movement was still going on. I could definitely see that as being a not terribly subtle dig at equality for minorities. Jessika: Yeah, yeah. I can agree [00:33:00] with that. That's how I took it as well. And, okay, did they do that entire Pelican sequence just so they could make that stupid bird joke at the end? Because that's how it felt I didn't like it. It was stupid.  Mike: I re-read that fucking thing three times And I was like… Jessika: They literally did it just so that they could make a stupid bird joke. Oh Christianity isn't for the birds. You literally just had a whole lesson about how there was a bird teaching another bird Christianity and then you  negated it by saying Christianity isn't for the birds. And I don't know what you want out of this Mike:  That felt like  a lot of those stories was these stupid kind of punny slogans at the end of  every one of these short stories. I really found myself getting grumpy as I continued to read them because I was just sitting there and going these are dumb. And no kid is going to think Christianity is cool because… Jessika: No.  Mike: Anyway, moving right along.  Jessika: Let's move on to [00:34:00] the absolute jewel of my retro collection these days, which is Hal Lindsey's There's A New World Coming.  Before I get too far into this comic or the book it's based on I felt like you all needed a little bit of background on Hal Lindsey to really understand what we're up against here.  Mike: I’m so excited because I want to know who the fuck this guy was.  Jessika: This is very broad strokes cause I didn't want to be here all night and I'm sure you  didn't either but very interesting go check it out. So he was born Harold Lee "Hal" Lindsey in Dallas Texas in 1929. He dropped out of university to be in the Korean War, was briefly a tugboat captain -because why not- and after a failed marriage and contemplating suicide he found Gideon's Bible and became born again Christian. He entered Dallas Theological Seminary in 1958 and had his first book published in 1970. Since then, he's [00:35:00] written more books of which he sold millions of copies and has moved on with the times to include broadcasting his messages via radio and television. Messages that range from prophetic to conspiratorial. And I want to add this blip from biblio.com. Mike, do you mind reading this for me. Mike: ”Virtually none of Lindsey's verifiable predictions have been confirmed by history.” Jessika: Great. Thank you. Mike: Is this guy still doing his thing? Is he still spreading the good word? Jessika: He's 91. He's 91. He's fucking kicking  I think  he from what it sounds like he retired quote unquote whatever that means. I think he's still shouting into the ether. Yeah he's around. So speaking of predictions let's talk about those predictions of Hal Lindsey's. So there's A New World Coming. [00:36:00] First of all can you do us a solid and describe the cover of this thing, which is a journey all in itself.  Mike: It is  this is actually I would say the most subtle of the comic covers we looked at tonight. The top half is bold yellow and it says Hal Lindsey There's A New World Coming. And there are three kids getting flown through space on this very weird kind of color spiral. And in the background you can see the spiral is emanating from earth. It's actually really cool looking.  It looks like it's some sort of weird  cosmic sci-fi space opera way I can describe it.  Jessika: Yeah. Very 70s.  Mike: It's very seventies especially the fashion for the older of the kids because  they've got the bell-bottoms they've got the seventies collar and  the big heels on the guy  and also plaid pants.  The [00:37:00] two older characters are holding hands, kind of? I don't know, it looks almost like the dude is grabbing the woman by the wrist and dragging her along. Jessika: Yeah. He really took her on a journey, apparently. Mike: Yeah and then the third kid who was also a narrator.  By the way, we never fucking learned these kids' name, do we? Jessika: We don’t learn anything about them.  Mike: I don’t think we ever get an official introduction to them, either. Jessika: No it's just assumed that this woman is stupid  and sinful and needs to be taught better. That’s kind of what is presumed.  Mike: But honestly this is kind of  the first panel of the comic book because when you open the comic it actually it starts with them on this weird cosmic voyage. Jessika: Yeah. Now the cover is just the start of this banana grams comic and even nuttier book which, by the way I also listened to in it's 308 page entirety. Mike: Okay I didn't realize that this was actually a comic adaptation of a much larger source text. Jessika: Yeah. Oh [00:38:00] let's just say there's a reason this book was able to be condensed into a 32 page comic. The whole premise of both publications is dun dun duh The Rapture. Or as I much prefer to call it "the great snatch" Mike: I’m so glad you called that out, because I was going to call that out if you didn’t. That is the highlight of this book. Jessika: And they put it in such bold  different colored letters. It was in big red letters: The Great Snatch! And it was this woman flying into the air.  Mike: I was gonna say: It’s this woman… oh my god. Jessika: Oh I bet she is the great snatch.  I was laughing so hard when I read that. The long and the short is that Jesus Christ will be coming back to earth. The true believers will be abducted, without dying apparently,  [00:39:00] and eventually transported to what will be new heaven and new earth which is just one thing by the way. Both the comic and the book talk about the supposed events the mark the start to Christ’s second coming. Interesting fact I found about this comic in particular while the art is signed by Hartley on the cover, there is speculation that there were potentially multiple other artists involved in illustrating this comic, as some of the styles don't match up to Hartley’s through and through.  Mike: Yeah ,I noticed that some of the styles weren't quite cohesive. Jessika: You can tell they tried, but you can tell there's definitely some weirdness in there. And I was wondering what that was about when I was reading it myself. Mike: Yeah And also some of the faces  of some of the guys I was like, oh  you were clearly an extra from an Archie comic that has been inserted here. Jessika:  Exactly. And her face is so similar to so many other Hartley ones. The comic is a pretty faithfully distilled version of the book. [00:40:00] Although in my opinion is done in a much more organized and cohesive manner. The book provides much more scripture to back up his claims repetitively.  Mike: Well, they did that in the comic, too. Jessika: Oh they did but they didn't repeat them over and over and over and over again because that is what they did in the book. The same Bible passage would show it multiple times within very few pages. I'm just like didn't I just hear this Bible passage you're doing it again.  It was just it was a whole headache. There were also works of other authors referenced to build his case. But I found yet another interesting rabbit hole that I was unknowingly already knee deep in. One of the authors that Lindsey mentioned as being "a powerful writer of our time" and one he uses as an example is Carlos Castaneda. Which immediately piqued my interest as I was actually in the process of listening to a podcast about this very person.  Mike: Do I  want to know? Jessika: [00:41:00] Yes  Mike: OK, was it bad? I got a feeling that it’s bad. Jessika: You'll know right when I call out what podcast it is. And I want to give a huge thank you to Cult Podcast for this next information.  Mike: Welp. I have my answer. Jessika: Yup Yup I was right in the middle of the second of a two part series on Carlos Castaneda that they had done. And I heard that name within Lindsey's and I was like I guess I have to listen to the rest of that podcast before I really get involved. Now Castaneda pretty much went out to get cigarettes one day and left his family to go do a project in Mexico. No joke. He just left, not really a cigarettes part. That's kind of the Cult Podcast joke but  he left his family for a series of years so that he could go [00:42:00] and do an anthropological study in Mexico.  Mike:  How big was his family I'm curious.  Jessika: He had a wife and kids, at least a couple of kids.  Mike:  What a shitheel. Jessika: Oh absolutely. Cause like multiple years. Like he was just like bye. So he did the one thing you're not supposed to do when studying anthropology: Get involved in the local rituals and ceremonies anthropologists are supposed be studying the culture not getting involved.  Kind of a look don't touch kind of a thing. Mike:  Yeah they’re supposed to be neutral observers. Jessika: Yeah. Strip club rules. So this already a no-no in the scientific community. But he came back, wrote this killer thesis, followed by a best-selling book or two, got a ton of credit and notoriety based on his studying with this traveling shaman named Don Juan. I'm sure you'll be shocked to find out that there was no Don Juan and Castaneda's multi-year anthropological project in Mexico turned out to be more of a [00:43:00] vacation where Castaneda did a lot of peyote, slept with a lot of women, and scoured libraries so that he could pull bits and  pieces out of books and plagiarize them to make his own. So he used a bunch of different spiritual books out of them to make his thesis books coming up.  Mike:  Woooow. Jessika: Yeah. It wasn't until years later that somebody recognized one of the  pieces of his book and were like, "wait a second. That sounds like something I've read from this other book." And then it was just this whole can of worms where he was like “wait and this is plagiarized and this is plagiarized.” Mike: It was so much easier back then to pull off this kind of shit. I feel like I missed my opportunity to cheat my way through school, because even by the time that we were going through high school and college they were starting to get really aggressive about spot checking for plagiarism and things like that.  Now it's really hard to actually plagiarize stuff because of all  the software that’s out there. God damn. [00:44:00] Jessika: It was also easier to have a second family. Mike:  Before the age of social media. Jessika: Yeah. Change your name and… Mike: Can you even have a cult these days without social media? Jessika: You might be able to but I think probably a lot of them would be hinged on social media at this point. Like some of those other ones that have been really recent. Mike: You got to have those influencers who'll sell your cult on Tik ToK. Jessika: Oh my gosh. I find it fascinating that Lindsey chose to use this particular author to showcase the section of his argument for morality which is regarding abstaining from drugs by the way.  Mike:  I mean, probably he just didn’t know. Probably this dude hadn’t been exposed yet. Jessika: Oh no no. Check it out Castaneda most certainly did not abstain from drugs, as I mentioned. And in the book Lindsey makes some vague reference to drugs only being necessary at the beginning of the spiritual journey. So it's like he really was pro-drug but he's also  anti-drug. It was really strange. I re-read that section And I was like I don't know what you're talking [00:45:00] about.  And he credited Castaneda with ceasing to use drugs after a certain point. However it was really just that Castaneda was pretty burnt out after all of his heavy drug use and had to stop doing drugs for health reasons rather than spiritual ones. So while Lindsey doesn't list an exact date at the Rapture, he does make the following prediction. Mike, will you read this blurb from again biblio.com for me. Mike: Yeah, absolutely. “Hal Lindsey forecasted the end of days would be within the generation of the establishment of Israel. That was 1948. He concluded a generation in the Bible was 40 years. Therefore in 1988 Jesus would establish his kingdom.”  Jessika: So clearly that happened according to plan. 1988 was a crazy year, wasn't it? Jesus came back… Mike: Yeah. 1988 was 32 years ago and I don't remember the [00:46:00] rapture happening so Jessika: I mean, I was two, but I don't either.  Mike: yeah  Jessika: And we went to church and I wasn't taken is all I'm saying. What were your overall thoughts on the comic?  Mike: Hmm Hmm Hmm. Honestly the whole thing feels like just one giant drug trip which, now that I have this perspective, makes a lot more sense. But mainly that was because of all the swirling colors in the backgrounds and the clouds that are present throughout the entire comic.  I just don't know how else to summarize it.  It also feels like Hal Lindsey really used this for his own self promotion more than anything else.  For example, he gets top billing on both the cover and on the first page but the comic's narrated by these three nameless teens who were taken on a magical journey through the Rapture and end times when this girl opens her Bible to the book of Revelations. And then they narrate everything that's supposed to happen [00:47:00] and everything about it It's just this really passive boring exposition.  I don't understand who the target audience for this was.  Biblical apocalyptic fiction was such a massive thing in the nineties and it could definitely be made to feel more exciting. But it always feels universally terrible whenever it's done in  a quote earnest way.  I came of age during the era of those God awful fucking Left Behind books  and Tribulation Force and all of the media that they've put out around it. And it was just really not good. It actually makes me mad because this shit never feels like a good story it's always a vehicle for its creators’ egos. And again the Left Behind stuff, like Kirk Cameron I know was really involved with that too for a while. That dude's just a giant fucking shitheel. Whatever. But honestly  the best moment in this book is when everyone is getting raptured, and one of the kids that refers to the moment as the Great Snatch, like we were talking about.  The moralizing also feels really vague.  If you look at that one page that talks about societal [00:48:00] decay where they list all this really generic stuff like the decline of the family unit and then it shows a bunch of people going into and this was the quote “alternatives to marriage course.” Jessika: Like what is that? There's not a thing that's called that  Mike: I don't know. Like my family is literally the embodiment of alternatives to marriage, because  I'm registered as a domestic partner with Sarah. And we did it basically because it was the easiest thing to do during lockdown so that we could make sure that we're taken care of in case something happened to the other person basically we could mail it in. But we get all the same benefits but that wasn't thing back then. Gay marriage wasn't a thing back then. Was it just living together in sin and common law marriage? I don't understand what that was but everything about that  felt like it was that possibly racist argument that's  not quite being racist. But  one of the ongoing things is there's that decline of the black family that they love to sit there  and [00:49:00] pontificate on in conservative media where they talk about black fathers abandoning their families and stuff like that. And I've been around enough of that that it drives me up the wall whenever I hear it. I was kind of bored and kind of mad as I read through this thing because it was just it felt like they really squandered the opportunity to do something really weird and memorable here. Jessika: What I thought was really funny too about their  timing the events I was looking at the different events that they were listing and they were like "fire from the sky" I was like do you know many times that we could say fire from the sky and like a volcanic eruption or the blitzkrieg or you know there's all these different points in history. Any of these events could have been just this whole situation could have been popped into a different time period and anybody could have felt like they were in the apocalypse. We could be in the apocalypse right now, 2020 was a whole shithole. We had like death wasps. Mike: Yeah Yeah. My favorite was the one where   the helicopters coming out of the earth was that it [00:50:00] and there's a quote where it's talking about insects coming forth  with battle armor and they're giant. And they're like, “look he perfectly described helicopters 2000 years ago!”  Jessika: Yeah. He could have been talking about death wasps see? The killer bees. 2021, guys, maybe it's the coming apocalypse I don't know someone should be asking these questions now. Mike: Well I mean it certainly wasn't like Donald Trump wasn't the antichrist because he was supposed to bring us into a false peace or something like that. Jessika:Yeah That was not peaceful I know you would've thought though it really had pegged for that If I were going to say anything.  Mike: Yeah God. So it sounds like we're kind of aligned on this but I’m curious to hear your take on this comic. Jessika:  What I did like about it and just know I was so entrenched in this whole topic, because I listened to the book and then I also read the comic and I was just so refreshed that it wasn't the book, that I was like a little relieved.  I do love that it's an absolute time capsule [00:51:00] just like the estate sale I found it in the estate sale Literally They had  avocado green  carpet. Yeah like what is I a fringe or no a what's it called?  Mike: Shag. Jessika:  Shag. Thank you. Yeah they had avocado green shag.  just it was 1970 threw up in there. It was great I loved it. Mike: Could you rake the shag carpet? Was it that worn down? Jessika:  Oh it was like it was Yeah It was like it needed good rake first of all. But I did like the fashion and the overall vibe, cause that's just kinda my style anyway. So I was right there with the illustrations and the outfits drawn in the comic. And honestly if taken ironically the comic is funny as heck.  it's dated It obviously represents that has come and gone  without the promised fall of Armageddons hammer. So that was Spire  Christian comics for you in a nutshell. Mike: I don't know what I expected any expectations but [00:52:00] this blew away any expectations I could’ve had. Jessika: I mean hard same. Well let's mosey on along to our Brain Wrinkles which is the one thing that we just can't stop thinking about. Mike why don’t you start us off?   Mike: So there was a new clip for the upcoming Cruella movie that dropped this week. And… have you seen any of the trailers for this? Jessika:  I’ve seen one of them, and I generally don’t watch trailers but I was curious. Mike: Yeah I rolled my eyes so hard when that movie was announced. And every time I see something from it though I keep getting more interested.  I'm actually really digging how punk rock they're making Cruella. It's got a very 1970s British punk vibe which is 100% my jam. And also the cast in this movie is so fucking good. We're not going to pay to see it, obviously we're going to wait until it comes to the common folk on Disney Plus. But I'm curious to see what they do with her. I'm [00:53:00] not sure every villain needs a redemption arc which is something been seeing a lot of lately like the Maleficent movies,  but I appreciate it when it feels really well done Like the case with Harley Quinn, like I was talking about last week. Jessika: Yeah. Segues right into my brain wrinkle which is every once in a while on a daily basis, because I'm queer as hell, I think about Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy. And I think “good for her.” And also like goals of getting out of that bad relationship that Harley was in.  Ivy's so much better for Harley than that toxic ass joker. So. That whole relationship was skeevy I didn't like it. It was one sided and controlling and manipulative and I've never liked it. It's always kind of sat with me in a weird way.  And so when they had this spin I was like “thank goodness.” [00:54:00] Mike: Even when I was in my twenties and I saw people sharing those memes of “Oh  you just need someone crazy like you” and it's Harley and the Joker and I'm like “he's abusive!” Jessika: Yes. Yes.  Mike: Even I could see that. And I was terrible in my twenties. Jessika: It should be pretty obvious but somehow it just isn’t. I don't know    Jessika: Thanks for listening to Ten Cent Takes. Accessibility is important to us. Text transcriptions of each of our published episodes can be found on our website.  Mike: This episode was hosted by Jessika Frazer and Mike Thompson, written by Jessika Frazer, and edited by Mike Thompson. That's me. Our intro theme was written and performed by Jared Emerson Johnson of Bay area sound. Our credits and transition music is pursuit of life by Evan McDonald and was purchased with a standard license from Premium Beat. Our banner graphics were designed by Sarah Frank who goes by cut_thistles on Instagram. Jessika: If you'd like to get in [00:55:00] touch with us, ask us questions, or tell us about how we got something wrong, please head over to tencenttakes.com tencenttakes@gmail.com. You can also find us on Twitter: The official podcast account is tencenttakes.  Jessika is jessikawitha and Jessika is spelled with a K and Mike is vansau, V a N S a U.   Mike:   Stay safe out there. Jessika: And support your local comic shop.

"March" Movie Madness part 3 (of 3)! For our final Justice League movie discussion, we go outside the DCEU and discuss two movies dealing with Wonder Woman's origins in very different ways.  Professor Marston and the Wonder Women tells the story of Wonder Woman's creation and also looks at the unconventional lives of her creators. Meanwhile, the 2009 animated film provides a more modern take with an all-star vocal cast.  Join us as we go down the rabbit hole that is Wonder Woman's history and discuss kink, polyamory, and BDSM. And -per usual- we swear a lot, too. Have questions/comments/concerns? Hit us up: tencenttakes@gmail.com ----more----   Jessika: I hope you realize what extremely heavy California accents we have. I hope you understand when the feedback comes in, that will be part of it! Hello and welcome to Ten Cent Takes, the podcast where we correct your comic misconceptions. One issue at a time. My name is Jessika Frazier and I am joined by my cohost, the royal robot, Mike Thompson. Mike: That's right. All my circuits are platinum or I don't know. Gold, gold plated, something. Jessika: Oh, gold plated. You've got like diamond and crusted things. They also serve a purpose being one of the sharpest items or Mike: Yeah I it. Thank you for that intro. Jessika: Of course. Well, the purpose of this podcast is to study comic books in ways that are both fun and informative. We want to look at their coolest, weirdest and silliest moments, as well as examine how they're woven into the larger fabric of pop culture and history. Now, today we're discussing the final installment of our "March" movie madness. Now I'm throwing heavy quotes around March movie madness because it is actually April. Mike: It's almost tax day at this point. Jessika: It's almost tax day. So we bled out a little bit, but we're trying to do these bi-weekly we got a little ahead of ourselves because we got so excited just to be talking about these things that we did a few more than we really anticipated in March, I would say to our listeners benefit. Mike: Yeah, sure. I concur. Jessika: So we are doing a deep dive into Wonder Woman's origins today. Now I'm not just talking about the origins of the character, but also of their creator and the reasons and motivations that drove this comic into existence. I'm excited about this. Mike: I am too. These movies were really pleasant surprises for different reasons. Jessika: I will agree with that wholeheartedly. Now, before we get into that, though. We love to do that whole one cool thing you've read or watched lately. And Mike, let's go ahead and start with you. Mike: Yeah. So I've been consuming a lot of Star Trek lately. I really enjoy the franchise in general, but I have this deep abiding passion for Deep Space Nine because my great uncle who was essentially my grandfather when I was growing up , we used to watch the show together every Sunday when we would go over to their house for dinner. So like, that was just this wonderful bonding activity with this guy who used to be a dive bomber in World War II and his very nerdy little 11-year-old nephew. I have these very treasured memories and I have the entire series on DVD of Deep Space Nine, which I will be buried with by the way. But both the entire series and the recent documentary about the show is on Amazon Prime. So I've been rewatching all of that, and I've been actually rereading some of the comics and then last week Star Trek Legends came out on a Apple Arcade and... it's fine. It's nothing special, but it's a fun distraction if you're a Trekkie who wants to just mash it up all the various characters from the different series together. So I currently have a away team with characters from the Next Generation and then Discovery and then the original series all together. And it's dumb, but it's fun. But this has led me down this rabbit hole, and I think that we should probably wind up doing an episode on Star Trek history in comics and how it actually helped shape the MCU as we know it. Jessika: I would love that. That sounds like so much fun. And I love Star Trek as well. I used to watch Star Trek with my dad. We were a Next Gen family. So I, you know, next gen and Riker jumping over chairs is like near and dear to my heart. Mike: I'm really bummed that that is not an animation and Star Trek Legends. It really makes me so grumpy. Jessika: What a miss. Such a missed opportunity Mike: What about you? What have you been reading or watching lately? Jessika: So I've been casually reading through a reprint of Giant-Size X-Men from 1975, and I say casually just kind of every once in a while I'll pick it up and I'll read through a few pages and be like, "Oh that was fun." And kind of put it back down again between whatever I'm doing. So of course you know they're they're retro comics and you know things are going to... it's me: Things are going to rub me the wrong way about some of the retro comics. Mike: A comic that's almost 40 years old possibly having some problematic elements to it? Go on. Jessika: Yeah no I try to set aside a lot of that but it is quite difficult with my very outspoken mind of mine. But one scene that really bothered me was from Storm's introduction. Professor X seeks out Storm in her native Kenya where she's legitimately saving the countryside by using her weather powers to get rid of drought. Mike: Right Jessika: But Professor X has the audacity to show up and say, "nah listen: Like I know you're helping quote unquote helping people here but I also need your help. And I'm much more important, let's be real. It's just a whole bag of yikes. Mike: Yeah I mean what year did giant size X-Men come out? Was that 75? Jessika: It was 75. Mhm. Mike: Yeah... That was the same year that we got Lois Lane turning black for a literal white savior piece of journalism. Racial sensitivity was not really a thing back then Jessika: Yeah, absolutely. And I and I do try to put myself into that mindset It's just so cringey though in this day and age to see things like that Mike: Yeah. Jessika: What I do like about it that everybody is so salty to one another. Like so salty. They're so sassy to one another. Every other page has just a roast battle between the members of the X-Men where they're like "yeah, One Eye" like Mike: I think I read a reprint of that when I was like 12 or 13 but I haven't re-read it at all recently. So I'll have to go back and check that out Jessika: I'll throw it your way. You can borrow it. It's fun. Well let's get into the meat of our episode and this was definitely a meaty topic. And I know I told you a little bit earlier I love me a good rabbit hole. Love jumping just right into them right off the top I read –more like I listened to but I mean it was a lot of time spent– three different audio books on the topic. Mike: Yeah no that's awesome I'm so excited to hear about all of Jessika: this. And the hard part then was whittling down what information I really wanted to give you. I highly recommend all of these resources and I really want to just throw them out at the top We will also throw them into the show notes. But I highly recommend -if you're interested in this topic- go read more about this because I'm not even touching the surface of these books. They are amazing. So the first one that I read was it was actually an article from smithsonian.com titled "the surprising origin story of Wonder Woman" by Jill LePore which led me to Jill LePore's larger book or I would say more extended book called The Secret History of Wonder Woman. It was also read by the author, so if you're a book on tape person, highly recommend listening to it. She's one of those people who really keeps your attention and she doesn't have that kind of drowsy lilt that some people do while they're reading, So I definitely I was able to stay really focused on it. And the last one was Wonder Woman Psychology by Trina Robbins and that had a couple of different narrators but that one was also very interesting and talked about all of the different aspects of the time and the different parts of psychology and gets more into because you know spoiler alert the author was a psychologist It does get deeper into that whole aspect of the reasons behind the comic in that way. Mike: That's a really cool and I'm really excited to hear everything that you learned because this is a topic that I had a vague awareness of but I have tried to stay as in the dark as possible for this episode because I'm really excited to learn from you about this Jessika: Let's all go on a learning journey together, Folks. What do you say. Mike: Yeah. Hop on the magic school bus kids. Jessika: Here we go. Mike: We're going to hang out with Goth Miss Frizzle. Jessika: Oh my gosh I know I'm wearing all black today and I have high bun. Very McGonigal right now. Mr Porter Um so Diana Prince is the secret identity of Wonder Woman but did you know that the creator of Wonder Woman had a secret identity himself? Well, today we're going to be discussing the creator of Wonder Woman, Charles Milton... or should I say William Moulton Marston. Marston's name, like his stories, were an amalgamation of fact and fiction his middle name mixed with that If max gains one of the co-founders of All-Star Comics and later DC, which stands for Detective Comics -fun fact: I didn't know that- where Wonder Woman made her debut. But Marston was hiding more than just a name. He had an entire life that he kept hidden from the world. William Moulton Marston was born in Massachusetts in May of 1893 to Frederick William Marston and Annie Marston. They bestowed upon him his mother's maiden name molten as a middle name, and as I've mentioned the last name he later uses as his nom du plume. By all accounts he seemed to have a easy childhood though I did hear reports that he was in the military for a stint I should say acting as a psychologist... I believe that was after his Harvard education, though He was accepted to Harvard for his advanced education and he eventually graduated and became a professor of psychology. While attending Harvard, Marston had many interests. One of them being the intelligent and motivated Elizabeth Holloway, whom he would later marry and who had been taking courses in one of the lesser quote unquote lesser universities that you know allowed women at that time. Mike: That was pretty standard at the time, right? Higher education for women was a new thing that was very looked down upon? Jessika: Oh it was incredibly new. This was the early 1900s. We're talking before 1910. That area. Women didn't have the right to vote yet which we definitely will get into. Didn't have the right to vote until 1920. That was a good few years before that point So the schools had the male schools would have a sister school basically or a lesser school . And for Harvard that was Radcliffe, which is where Holloway went And this was considered again the sister school But of course didn't have the same name and you didn't get the same degree .You still graduated from Radcliffe and women really didn't have the option to go down that actual Harvard route, which of course didn't give them an edge at all No edge Thanks a lot. Mike: Yeah what did you use a degree for back then? Jessika: I mean, nothing. What are you going to do with this degree in your home, in the kitchen? The oven doesn't need you to have a degree. It's just so gross. Mike: It's not a masters in baking roasts, Linda Jessika: And how they wished it were. You would think. Harvard acted like that. It was rough. She did however finish her education and become an lawyer with her degree being issued from Radcliffe despite petitioning multiple times to get a Harvard degree, since she was taking the same classes, they were the same classes. Mike: With the same professors, too, right? Jessika: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The class just had women in it instead of men That was the only difference. During college she and Marston were inseparable. One of the biographies I read stated that there was this rule that a woman could not walk or ride unaccompanied with a man However Holloway thought that was a completely stupid rule and just didn't follow it, which I love. She's like, "fuck that." Mike: That's so good. Jessika: And everything else I read about her said "fuck the rules, I do what I want." Which is so amazing for a woman in the early 1900s. I mean it's kind of an interesting concept right now let alone the 1900s. Mike: Yeah... we still have all of these societal norms that women are not supposed to go against. Jessika: Yeah. So Marston varied interests also included a search for "the truth." Quote unquote the truth. This was partially inspire Now part of what he invented I should say was inspired by an observation by Holloway that when she got mad or excited her blood pressure seemed to climb. And from that Marston created the earliest version of what we now know as the lie detector test or polygraph. The test is we know it now measures more than just blood pressure which was really the only thing he was checking on. Blood pressure in and of itself isn't going to tell you everything that you quote unquote need to know for a lie detector to be effective. That being said it's also mostly an admissible as we know it now in the US court of laws depending on the place and both parties have to agree to have it be accepted into the court case which I found I didn't know that. Yeah! Mike: I knew that growing up lie detector tests were considered to be kind of this infallible thing. And then it was like well you know you can sort of get around it by all these old wives tales of like you know you put a tack in your shoe and you press your toe against it and the pain messes up the results. And then later on I found out that they're not really great, they're not really admissible anymore but I didn't know that because I know that a lot of law enforcement still loves to rely on it. Jessika: Yeah and I think about the if you think about when you're nervous you can have a lot of different reasons for being nervous. Not because you're lying, necessarily. You could be a bad test taker and then you suddenly look like a guilty party It could be as that. Mike: I'm just thinking about all the times that I had to give public speeches. Either class presentations or later on when I was a journalist and I was moderating panels. Every time my pulse would be through the roof. Jessika: Same. Now can you imagine being somebody who is of an oppressed or a minority population who's being put into a situation where they have people of power who have them in a room and they have control and that is a really scary thing. Mike: Yeah, that sounds like a nightmare scenario. Jessika: I can imagine my heart rate going up in that situation, so having that be the measure doesn't seem like the best of ideas In my opinion. That being said, it does seem to be admissible in the court of Steve Wilkos and other daytime television shows. Mike, tell me the truth: Do you or have you ever watched those daytime shows like Maury or Jerry Springer or Steve Wilkos? Mike: Yeah, so... Not only did I watch Maury during the daytime when I was just working on stuff at school and I wanted something on in the background, but I was a staff photographer for a newspaper during a celebrity golf tournament and Maury Povich was one of the celebrity golfers. He was really nice I wound up chatting with him for a minute while he was waiting for his turn at golf. I really feel like I missed an opportunity to have him record saying that I was not the father because that was the big thing that he was doing back then was all those paternity tests. Jessika: You say that like he's not still doing that. Mike: I don't know, does he still have show? I don't have TV anymore Jessika: I think so. You know, I really just catch clips. What I'll do is if I'm working and I have to be paying attention to my work -or if I if it's not something mindless like entering data or something- I like to listen to podcasts if I can actually pay attention but if I can't I'll just put on -and I don't watch it but I'll just- put on rotating clips through Facebook or something just go through Facebook watch and just whatever comes up next comes up. And every once in a while we'll get one of those Steve Wilkos and I hear "STEEEEVE" and I'm like, "Oh here we go." And it's always it's always a lie detector test, still to this day. Mike: Was Steve the guy who got his own show sprung off of like spun off of Jerry Springer? Jessika: "sprung off Springer." Correct. Yes. Mike: My roommate and I in college loved to watch Jerry Springer at night because it was the trashiest shit and we not stop. It was like a train wreck, you couldn't look away. Which I think was generally the appeal of Jerry Springer. But it's hard to resolve that because every interview I've seen with the guy he seems like a really pleasant down to earth human being. And then I'm like but you put the trashiest shit on television and it is demonstrable the effect that you had on daytime talk shows for a long time and still to this day in certain ways but for a while everybody was aping that. Anyway, this was a tangent. Jessika: That's okay It was exactly the tangent I wanted. Mike: Maury seemed like a lovely person for all two minutes that I interacted with him, and I hope that Jerry Springer is the person that he seems to be during interviews. Jessika: Same. Well, speaking of life drama, Marston had plenty. Mike: Oh, do tell. Jessika: Yeah. He was already married to his wife the aforementioned Elizabeth -who for consistency I'm going to continue calling Holloway though she did take his name when they got married. Marston, working as a professor at Tufts which is another university, fell in love with one of his students, Olive Byrne, in 1925 and advised his wife that Byrne could either move in or Marston was leaving. Mike: Oh. Jessika: Yeah. That was what the history said So we'll talk through the movie later Mike: Yeah, 'cuz my only familiarity with this so far is what I saw in the movie. *uggggh* Jessika: That was my reaction I now I did my research prior to watching the movie for this exact reason. So I watched the movie last night. It's super fresh. Mike: Yeah I watched it yesterday afternoon and then I watched the other one which we'll get into so it was the origins of Wonder Woman and then Wonder Woman a little bit more modern incarnation. Jessika: Perfect. Yeah. Byrne interestingly enough was the niece of Margaret Sanger. Have you heard that name before Mike: Yeah. She was like one of the early women's rights crusaders. Jessika: Yeah Yup Yup She was a renowned women's rights and birth control activist along with her sister Ethel Byrne opened the first birth control clinic in the United States which is so cool Mike: Yeah, that's awesome. Jessika: Both however were arrested for the illegal distribution of contraception and Ethel Byrne almost died during a hunger strike while she was in jail. Mike: I remember reading about that like in one of my one of my history classes. I mean, that checks out. Jessika: It was bad news bears. So I didn't write this down but I'm just remembering but I did read or listened to sources that said that multiple women were arrested and went on hunger strike and they were forced feeding them It was just it was bad news. The whole thing was just bad. So this obviously was during a time when women were still fighting for the right to vote as I'd mentioned earlier. And the idea of feminism was just a twinkle of a notion. So Byrne Holloway and Marston all three lived together for years as a throuple. Super interestingly they made up a backstory for all of as a widowed relative and both Holloway and Byrne were raising Marston's children. Byrne's Children were always told that their father had passed away and did not find out about the truth of their father's identity until after his death. Mike: Wow. So he fathered children with both women, correct? Jessika: He did. Yeah He fathered I believe two with Byrne and three with Holloway. They all live together in a house and again they managed to keep it secret enough that even their children didn't know. In the same house It's so wild to me Like how you and Mike: Insane to me. Jessika: You fathered children with this woman and they didn't know. No one knew. I can't fathom that honestly. Especially in a time when everybody was up at everybody else's business. Mike: Oh yeah. It's not like we had Netflix. You needed to do invent your own drama. Jessika: You look out Mike: the window. Before Marston died because he died fairly young as I remember it. So that was the whole thing in the movie is that they got out as being in a throuple to their neighbors. Nothing? Jessika: Never happened. They didn't get in trouble at the school. They didn't get in trouble with the neighbors. None of that. It was seamless. Mike: That actually makes me really happy. Jessika: Me too Mike: I love the idea of it sounds like a relatively healthy family. Jessika: I Mike: don't know. Maybe? Jessika: Y'know from what I was hearing because we're still in 1910 we're still in the 1920s I guess at this point it's still is like Marston is Papa Marston he's still man of the house. So I don't know especially when you're looking at this whole -how it was phrased and this is just a couple of sources- but just as far as how it's phrased in this I don't know that Holloway really had a choice other than "well I could be stuck here with" I don't know if she had children at that point "I could maybe be stuck as a single mother in the 1920s or I could allow this other woman to come into my house" but what's great about that is Byrne was able to just stay home and raise the kids. So Holloway was still able to go out and have a career. Yeah She still went out and had a career And so that's where it's I have a hard time saying definitively black and white Marston was a feminist as we would call him now. Probably not. But he definitely had the leanings of that. And he definitely was far advanced for his time Mike: sure I can only imagine. Was he still teaching during this time or was he doing something else? Jessika: He did so many things. He did so many things and I'll actually get into that a little bit further. But it was such a it did seem like a good situation for everyone. Marston had multiple professional interests And Marston believed not only in equality for women, but even further he believed that society should be matriarchal... which is where he goes a little bit more like a Ooh he just kind of swings off you know Cause he's like, "no no no no we should go in the exact 180. There's no middle ground here Women should rule society." Sure right now we live with men. Let's flip it over on its head and see how it goes I guess? But would settle for equality. Mike: Speaking as a mediocre white dude I'm totally fine with this plan. Jessika: Great Let's put it into effect. Who could I call? Papa Joe? I'll bring Mike: it up at the next meeting at the next mediocre white dude club meeting Jessika: I knew you guys had meetings. The gays definitely have meetings Well yeah You know you know you know I'm like well like I'm excluding you from the LGBT community That's rude of me and my Mike: apologies. The rest of them already do already. It's fine. Jessika: To Touché. We did have that conversation earlier. Biphobia. It's a real problem Mike: Yeah It's fun. Jessika: Yeah we were talking about Marston and his wild matriarchal ideas. And his idea was that women were more thoughtful empathetic and level headed when making decisions and would be better suited to positions of leadership. And Marston is quoted as saying -and if you want us to read this quote for me: Mike: okay! " Frankly Wonder Woman is a psychological propaganda for the new type of woman who, I believe, should rule the world." Jessika: So you can kind of see where he was going with that. Obviously she's powerful, she's more powerful than most of the men that she comes across. And he really was trying to flip that on its head with this character. Mike: Yeah. There was nothing like her before that Jessika: No. Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. However Marston's entry into the entertainment business didn't start with feminine power of Wonder Woman but instead with the film industry and again this is early film we're talking. He was in the silent film era and then moved talkies. Mike: Golden Age. Jessika: The Golden Age. And there he wrote screenplays and later acted as the consulting psychologist for universal pictures which I didn't even know That was a thing Having a consulting psychologist makes a lot of sense Mike: Yeah it does I just had no idea that was even a role that existed back then. Jessika: Yeah I know. And back then even I know. And at this point he'd already been published, having written dozens of magazine articles and a novel about his opinions Let's just call them or his findings about psychology at the time. And it is called a novel So just keep that in mind. It's called "Emotions of People" I believe. And they do mention it briefly in the film I didn't read it. I'm sure I could jump around and do I just didn't want to get into 1920s garbage which to He was then asked in 1941 to be the consulting psychologist for DC by Maxwell Charles Gaines who was more or less the creator of comics as we know them. At the time Gaines was under fire for content that folks deemed at the time to be risque. So he hired Marston to take off some of the heat by approving the content that was going out. With Marston on the team the largest complaints that they received was the aggressive masculinity that seemed to be the theme of all of the comic books. Yeah I know. You would think that we live in this society that values men so much you would think that we'd be able to just carry on with that you one form. Mike: Yeah Especially during that era which was right when we were getting into World War II and we were going hard for those traditional masculine values Jessika: Yup we want strong men who can go out there and die, I mean fight, for us. Yes. Marston suggested that the best way to counter that idea with the critics was to create a female superhero. Now Gaines accepted the idea but told Marston he had to write the strip himself. So he did. And with the help of illustrator Harry G Peter, Wonder Woman was in essence born. She was fierce, she was strong, she had a lasso that was that made others obey. It wasn't a truth thing that we now know it as the lasso of truth It was an obedient situation. Everybody who was lassoed had to obey her. So it was more of a dominance situation, which we will absolutely get to. And it makes a little bit more sense. Although there again with his lie detector the truth also makes sense. Either way, it tracks but it was obedience. Mike: Yeah you don't say. Jessika: One of her most important qualities was that she didn't kill. That was her empathy. That was that piece of her that was more feminine than some of those other comic book characters, those typical comic book characters Mike: Yeah. Even in the early days I know Batman killed people originally. He was like a goon and I think Superman did too in his early run. I think, can't remember for sure. Jessika: I believe so And then they when they got the comics code? When it was stricter with the comics code that's when they kind of moved into less actual killing from what I was reading I believe. Mike: You know I don't know for certain but it may have been before that because they were just they're such popular characters for kids. But I'm not entirely certain but I know that the early appearances are pretty brutal. I remember Batman hanging a dude from his plane. Jessika: Well I mean Superman came out in 1939 so yeah it's early. I'm going to send you a picture Mike: Okay. Jessika: And so this is the first introduction to Wonder Woman which was seen on the cover of sensation comics Will you please describe the cover? Mike: Yeah .So it is Sensation Comics Number One, the best of the DC magazines. You see Wonder Woman I'm not sure if the sun is really enlarged or if she is just jumping in front of something that's yellow to kind of add a little color to it but she is being shot at by a bunch of what appear to be mobsters somewhere in Washington DC because the capital is there and... is that is that the Lincoln Memorial? I can't tell what other building is that has the flag. Jessika: Apparently they're right across the street from each other. Not real life. This is scale. Mike: It looks like a vaguely government building I can't tell. Jessika: Yeah supposed to be something like that Mike: But it says "featuring the sensational new adventure strip character Wonder Woman!" You got to get that exclamation point in. She's kind of jacked like even back then which I kind of love. She is wearing a truly unflattering pair of boots that are only going up to mid calf as opposed to what we know now where they're just above the knee and armored and bad-ass. But it's the outfit that actually she's still sort of rocking the day where she's got the kind of red bustier with the gold eagle on it and then she's got the bulletproof bracelets and then she's got what I can only describe it as the bottom part of a sun dress kind of skirt where it's like very flowy? As opposed to that that gladiatorial skirt that she has now. But it's very identifiably Wonder Woman. Jessika: Yeah. And it goes back and forth between this was her first debut but it wasn't her first issue. first issue she was wearing more of what people were calling underpants of this same pattern. And that's what more used to. Yeah We're used to those like little booty shorts that she's rocking. So, right off the bat: Mike if you were a critic, in 1942 what would your main complaint about this be? Just based on the cover? Mike: I don't know. They were really concerned about the violence that was being marketed towards kids so probably the gunfire. Probably the fact that she was showing too much skin. Jessika: it. She wasn't clothed enough .Oh, they didn't care about the gunfire. That was not what was that was not the problem. Gasp. The drama was that Wonder Woman was wearing far too few clothes for Puritan America. Mike: Jesus Christ. And that's actually super tame Jessika: It's really tame. When you think about other superheroes that we have nowadays especially: You've got these massive boobs that are up to her neck and this little waist and like wearing a thong. But this is so covered Mike: Yeah. A lot of modern comics have these very almost suggestive poses. Do you remember when the Avengers came out and and all of the dudes had very action-oriented poses and then Black Widow was turned so that we could see her butt? She had Jessika: her like her arm up so that you could see her boob line. Mike: Yeah. And it's a really action oriented pose and it's very matter of fact there is nothing sexualized about that, kinda love. Jessika: Marston made it a point for her to be doing action and for her to be doing sports and for her to be doing things that were very active because women weren't given that as a role. So he really wanted to present that as another facet of, "Hey, this can also be feminine. Yeah I thought so, too. And while a slight costume adjustment seemed easy enough to deal with some critics also had qualms with other aspects of the comic. Namely, the depiction of women especially our heroine being tied or chained up or left in other positions of containment. Now, Marston's intention behind this seemed to be twofold in my opinion. Part one feminism and part two I also think he was just in kinky motherfucker. Which is great. Like, that's fine no kink shame. But we're going to briefly discuss both. So part one feminism. Marston was a supporter of women's rights, as we said. He was a supporter of the right to vote and the ability to have access to contraceptives. He'd been a supporter of these movements in his own right and was particularly struck by the female suffragettes who would chain themselves to a location in protest. Chains seem to him to be the very image brought to life of how society chains down and stifles women from succeeding. Either chaining them to their family before they're wed, chaining them to their new husband, or chaining them to pregnancies that they either cannot afford or don't want. In each of these portrayals of Wonder Woman being tied down there is always the moment that she's able to break free from her restraints in triumph which is just a perfect metaphor for the modern woman being able to break free from the societal chains that still bind her. And this hope that women will be able to eventually free themselves for good. In everything I've read, you had women suffragettes chaining themselves to places in protest. Same thing with the contraceptive movement. That was a huge metaphor for both of those movements, so it would make sense that if you are portraying a feminist during that era that that might be a theme. And I think people who maybe didn't support or were unfamiliar with the movements might have something to say negatively against the imagery, especially if they didn't understand Mike: We had a lot of people back then who were really pushing for propriety and basically you can't let immoral elements affect the children. They always fucking latch on to like "think of the children. Protect the children." Fuck off. Jessika: We still do that shit. This is just like pizza gate all over again. Mike: Yeah Jessika: Pizza gate before pizza gate. Little did they know. But part two: the kink factor. Marston had a whole dominance theory that I think tells a lot more about him than it does to the human experience In general I'm not going to get deep into the theory because we both have lives but it pertains to dominance and submission at the very minimum. Mike: You don't say. Jessika: Yo I know right. Mike: What. Shock. Jessika: At this point it's pretty well established that individuals have different drives and things that excite them. But I think that Marston was looking at the world from a place of, oh I like this So everybody is like this." Which just isn't the case for everybody. Mike: Right. But that's also like a very stereotypical kind of dude attitude. Jessika: Yeah. This is my worldview and so it must be everybody's. Absolutely. Again, he's some Harvard bro. Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Jessika: You're able to just go to Harvard in 1925 like Mike: NBD. I'm Jessika: gonna Mike: to be living near there soon. Oh God. I'm going to Jessika: be visiting you soon. I've got the people there. You're fine. We'll get you there. We'll get you there. But my impression is that he assumed that everyone else was a little kinky like him. Also it needs to be stated that again in interviewing Marson's children they never saw toys, ropes, anything that he had mentioned in the comics or that were the things that were being taken as this great offense, they didn't see any of those things. So it was this was also a complete surprise to them nothing related to bondage. Mike: Yeah that's wild man. I just I think about the fact that my partner has stories about how when everyone was out of the house she would just snoop around when she was growing up. And I remember doing that too And kids get into shit. Jessika: We also grew up in the age in the era of the latchkey child, though. My parents would just and not for long periods of time it's not like they would go out of town or something. But they'd leave us and say "don't answer the door. You're not home. Don't answer the phone. We'll call and ring twice and then hang up and then call back If we want to talk to you know whatever there was a code. But there again we lived in a different time even this many years I mean it just we sound like old people every time we have this conversation. Mike: You know someone pointed out that if Back To The Future was taking place today Marty McFly would be going back to like 91. Jessika: Don't do this to me. Mike: We're old, Jess. Jessika: We're Mike: practically Jessika: this Okay Mike. This is going to seem like such a non-sequitur But have you ever had to do a DISC personality assessment for any of your offices jobs? Mike: I don't think so. The name isn't familiar but describe this to me. Jessika: Basically it's like any of those other stupid employee personality tests where they try to like "what part of the team are you? How can we use your strengths?" I'm a supervisor so I've had to go through all this crap. And it's cool. It's a cool concept but it's also like mind numbing if it's not your wheelhouse. Mike: No. So I've never taken anything like this no. Jessika: Okay So yeah you basically answered a bunch of questions about what you would do in a situation. And it's kind of one of those no wrong answers kind of tests. And then they put you into one of four different categories. So I have had to do this before and and other ones like it but I honestly can't remember what I scored and I'm not going to get into a long-winded lecture on the topic either but suffice it to say that part of that is dominance That's the D and part of it is compliance which is the C. Mike: So was this something Marston came up with? Jessika: Yeah. Marston came up with and it's we still use version of this today which is so interesting. So far he's got lie detector, check. We still kind of use it today. Steve Wilkos does. And then now he's got the DISC which I definitely have taken. Now, it doesn't look the same. The categories are not the same as when he first created them. So less kink forward I would say. But you still have those two that are vibing you know. And for those of you are you unfamiliar with the kink scene: Power dynamics in play can sometimes come in the form of having one dominant and one submissive partner. But again not everybody functions in that way. Ultimately, wonder Woman was allowed to continue as she was. Delighting readers even to this day though of course the writing has changed hands multiple times meaning that her true meaning was sometimes lost to those who were in charge of telling her story. For example once Wonder Woman entered the Justice League she was immediately made to be the secretary. And there were many times that she was relegated to staying behind because she just had so much to take care of and "oh little old me couldn't get involved in having lifting" bullshit. God damn. She's so fucking strong. She has powers and Batman doesn't. Why the fuck does he get to go on missions? Why the fuck Isn't Batman the secretary? That's my question. Oh he has money my own his Mike: power that he's rich. Jessika: God damn. Yeah. Thanks for that Ben Affleck. We know. Still like him as Batman. Mike: Yeah. I'll die on that hill he was good. Jessika: Yeah Yeah He was good There was also a point where she lost her powers completely though did gain them back, those were times that Wonder Woman didn't necessarily feel like the fierce warrior she truly is. Mike: Yeah, actually, Brian's comics -our local comic shop- the first time I went in there they had the all-new Wonder Woman issue where it's like this iconic cover where it's her tearing up I think the original version of her and it's like get ready for the all new Wonder Woman I think that's when they de-powered her. I think. I'm not certain I'm really bummed that I didn't pick that up when it was there. Jessika: The idea behind that apparently was supposed to be that would make her more human and relatable but that's not you're just taking away the things that make her a stronger character for people that look up to her. Mike: Yeah I'm sorry. Did you were you able to hear my eyes rolling out of their Jessika: I did actually Yeah no that was a really palpable eye-roll. well Marston passed away at the age of 53 of cancer So very young like you were saying. Yeah. Holloway and Byrne continue living together until they both went into the hospital around the same time in 1990. When Byrne passed away, in a different room in the same hospital at the age of 86. Mike: I Jessika: got teary writing this so I'm probably going to get teary reading it. Upon hearing the news of burns passing Holloway sang a poem by Tennyson in her hospital room. So everything I've read alludes to the idea that Holloway and Byrne were also in a relationship with each other not just the man with all of them that they did have there were women who were kind of rotating in the house. It wasn't just these two there were other women who at different periods of time lived in the house undetected by the way can we just give it up for the Marston Family. Mike: Like. How? Jessika: That's what I'm saying. I don't know, money? And the dude had his little hands in everything so he probably just knew a bunch of people I don't know How do you get away with things as a guy I literally can't even imagine. Mike: This is my friend who's coming over to assist with this thing? The question is were they just coming into visit or were they living there for periods of Jessika: time? They were living there for a parts. Yes I know me too. I know. Okay let's run through: You have a widowed relative. You could be bringing in a nanny. You could be bringing in another person who works in the house et cetera et cetera. You could be bringing in a cousin or another type of relative. I'm sure you could excuse up the yin yang. Mike: Yeah I mean you can come up with excuses but if they're like living with you for any amount of time there are those moments of small intimacies that other people will pick up on. I don't know I mean were the kids just dumb? I don't know like how that requires some serious commitment to acting I feel. Jessika: Yeah. Oh yeah. Mike: So much fucking effort. Jessika: I was just going to say that. Can you imagine? I can't. Mike: No. Jessika: The mental strain alone. Mike: Like I have one partner, I have step-kids, and I have pets and that's like that's kind of the extent of my bandwidth. Jessika: Oh okay So I am non-monogamous or Poly, polyamorous. So I do have multiple partners although I they're what I would consider like secondary partners or partners that I don't I don't live with them, I don't necessarily see them on a super regular basis but I still maintain a relationship with them. And I still consider them partners. To whatever you know effect that is. But it is a lot of work and it's so much communication and you can just tell that Marston had to have been really communicative and that whole family had to have been really communicative. Mike: They must have been. Jessika: Or else how. Mike: At the same time like that era men weren't necessarily expected to be super communicative or show a lot of emotion or be the one to provide nurturing experiences with the kids. So maybe they just didn't get a lot of exposure to the kids and were really just exposed to their mothers and the motherly figures. I mean, this is all completely uninformed speculation so don't take anything that I'm saying with even a grain of salt like this. Jessika: Oh no. Absolutely at any rate Holloway passed away in 1993 at the ripe age of 100. Mike: Oh wow. So there was a little bit Jessika: of an age difference. Around Yeah there was there was yeah. Sounds like about a little bit less than 20 years. About 14 years. But if you think about it she was in college. Mike: Yeah. Jessika: He was her teacher and they were already married. He went to I want to say that he started college like prior to 1910. And they met and she moved into the house in 1925. So that's a good 15. Mike: He would have been about he would have been about 17 and 1910 right? Based on it like he was 1893 he said? Jessika: Yes yes. Yeah. And it sounds like Holloway was born the same year. Mike: Yeah and I got to say the love story between Holloway and Byrne sounds like something straight out of a movie. Which we're about to get into. But we all want to have that partner who is with us till the bitter end and then they sing a poem in our memory. Like goddamn. Jessika: It's just so beautiful. Yeah. They had it when they live together in the house, they had adjoining rooms and this is where it's like how did your kids not know because Marston would sleep in both. How did he like literally how did they not know? No it's wild to me. And then when they were older, byrne and Holloway lived in a little two bedroom place in Tampa together. This cute place apparently. So let's talk about our reactions here. We did also watch Professor Marston and the Wonder Women which I think it's worth a watch in my just off the bat. Mike: Yeah. I really liked it a lot and it was a movie that totally flew under the radar for me when it came out. I was vaguely aware of it but I really did not know much about it before we talked about what movies we wanted to do and March being women's month it seemed like a natural conclusion after the DCEU. Jessika: Yeah. Absolutely. That train wreck. I'm sorry. Mike: I was Jessika: of We did. We did enjoy one of the movies and we enjoyed aspects of of them. I trailed off my brain wouldn't let me do it It's like no that sentence Mike: I mean we kind of enjoyed parts of the Snyder cut Jessika: We did We liked it better Mike: than I don't like we're still Jessika: bitching about the Snyder Cut Mike: Look at Jessika: this Mike: back Jessika: Goddammit. We've literally can't get away from it Zach Snyder, hit us up.. No don't. You're not going to like what you hear I'm going to get to eat It adds Zach Snyder is going to be like Mike: I want the Snyder cut of Professor Marston in the Women which will be just scenes of Luke Evans with the Women in the background and don't do anything else. Jessika: And there's no dialogue in this one at all. It's just it's just heavy looks. Mike: It's just all the scenes from that sorority scene just over and just dark, scenes. Jessika: Definitely talk about that. Oh. What did you think about the film overall. Mike: Like I said, I overall really enjoyed it. I had heard about this movie a little bit. I remember my weightlifting partner at the time was telling me about how she and her wife had gone and enjoyed it and she thought that I would really like it. And I was like, "yeah okay cool." And then it just I didn't get around to seeing it while it was out in it's very limited run in theaters. And then I don't think it ever came to any streaming platform when I was aware of it. I was really surprised by actually how much I did enjoy it. I thought it was a shockingly sweet love story and I was expecting something much more judgmental or scandalous I was really expecting a much more judgy story about the Marstons and Byrne raising an entire family as a throuple. Jessika: was too. Mike: I was wondering if the relationship was ever outed and if they ever did break up like they did in the movie because that felt kind of forced and it felt very Hollywood and I was like "all right, whatever. This is dumb." At the end where they're on their knees submitting to Byrne." Jessika: Spot on That was made up There was none of that. Mike: I still think the most offensive thing about that movie was that they tried to make me think that someone who looked like Luke Evans was responsible for Wonder Woman's creation. I love Luke Evans I think he's really a fun actor and I was really glad to see him in a real role as opposed to I saw Dracula untold in theaters. I saw I'm Oh man I I didn't see Beauty and The Beast in theaters but I've since seen it. He's one of those actors where I feel like he just needs to be given good roles. He's like Kiana Reeves where I feel like he's often typecast and just thrust into stuff that aren't really any good but he was really good in this. That said: I've seen that man shirtless so many times and I don't know a single comic creator with abs like that. On the flip side, I went into this trying to keep myself as unaware a lot of the history of Marston but I do know what he looked like in his forties and that was like a dude in his seventies. Jessika: Did you watch all at the end of the film they had all the pictures. Yeah And you're just like, "oh. Oh." Like because Byrne and Holloway also not looking like who they cast. Not even a little bit, not even at all. Mike: Okay this is mean. But I'm like yes you look like the type of people who would be in a throuple. Jessika: No. Okay, fair enough And especially here's you know what it reminded me of it reminded me of those pictures that I used to see from that era where the Women especially with those two they looked like the type who would dress up as men and go to the clubs. Mike: Absolutely Jessika: I get that. It's just a vibe I get and maybe it's just my gaydar Like my pansexual gaydar is Mike: going But I mean that's the ongoing lie that Hollywood loves to tell us is that truly sexy people are in throuples all the time. No they're fucking not. I'm bI And I was dating here in the Bay area and I would occasionally get hit on by people looking for a third and they never looked like that. Jessika: And in my experience and opinion if you go at it with the wrong attitude you're not necessarily going to get what you want out of it. And it's not going to be a genuine feeling relationship. Mike: Which I mean like that's relationships in general. Like Yeah I feel like a huge thing of any successful relationship is communications. Stay tuned listeners for our next podcast about relationships and relationship advice And I don't know I don't know where I was going with that. Jessika: Oh I was like we have a new podcast. We're four episodes into this podcast and Mike's like folks we have a new podcast. You know what I like I like your gusto. I like a motivated you Mike: I did have two quibbles about the movie. Getting back on topic. First we earlier mentioned there was no acknowledgement about the problematic nature of how Marston and Byrne's relationship began. Where he was her professor and she was his student. The movie was very fuzzy with time it was very fluid that way. So it wasn't really explained if she was still his student when the relationship began or if she was his research assistant but there was that power imbalance and their dynamic and that was deeply uncomfortable for me because it wasn't addressed. They just kinda hand waved it away. Fine. Whatever. For the movie, fine. Jessika: same way about that. Yeah It just it's gross and to your point there is a power dynamic that I was thinking about. If you are trying to please somebody who has some sort of control over you, whatever that looks like, if it's somebody who has your grades or your future career or your education or even your job... you know this could be at a job setting. If that person has power over you you're less inclined to say "no" to them. And that automatically puts you at a disadvantage. Mike: It was something that I noticed and I was a little frustrated that it wasn't addressed better. The second was that it didn't feel like we actually got enough time with Wonder Woman. The comics and the character felt more like a framing device but a framing device that we didn't really get a lot of payoff on, considering the title of the movie. I thought the scenes where he was actually in the comic office and there was a bit where they're like "Oh well, they're upset about the bondage. And they're like I feel like there's twice as much. And then he just is like I put in three times as much and he keeps walking. And and Oliver Platt was so great and I wanted more of him. For a movie that has Wonder Woman or Wonder Women in the title I just I wanted a little bit more time and acknowledgement. It felt like much more attention was paid just to their relationship with like the first two thirds of the movie. And then he goes with hat in hand to Oliver Platt's character at... was it all-star Comics? Was Jessika: that it? Mike: Yeah. I mix up all the publishers because they've all merged and come together at various. So yeah he It just it it was And especially cause you were like no he got hired to like do this to get them out of hot water now I'm like that makes much more sense. Jessika: Yeah He Mike: Considering the importance that we're led to believe that Wonder Woman will be to his story, I mean she's there. Like they do a number of things where they keep teasing us with Wonder Woman but we never really get that payoff. What about you like Jessika: I did my research on the topic prior to watching the film. So this will be mostly on what the film did or didn't do correctly kind of history with my own opinion of course sprinkled in as you'd expect from So to your point most of the drama seems to have been fabricated There's no indication that any issues with Radcliffe, like trying to boot him for indecency or with the neighbors regarding their relationship, and again even their children didn't know until after Marston's passing about their relationship. And I didn't read anything about them having split up at any point. And again I think that was just added for a forceful Hollywood dramatics play, since we're on the topic of dominance. And there again Marston was already working for Gaines when he created the idea of Wonder Woman and it was in direct relation to the voice of the critics. So he was answering the critics here. So it didn't necessarily seem like as big of a you did this thing and now we're going to make you pay. It was like well okay Right. The sections with Connie Britton -love her by the way, want more in my life just in general- and their back and forth minus all the people drama was actually pretty accurate as far as capturing the concerns of the day and what was being argued in the lobby against Wonder Woman. And then also pretty accurate in what his counterpoints were in relation to the to the comic itself. Mike: Yeah And I thought that was a smart choice to kind of make her the voice of the critics. Jessika: Yeah. That being said his relationship didn't come up at any point in this again because nobody knew about it until after the fact. So it's not like she would have been like what about those things you were indecent. Well, no that that didn't happen. That was all for dramatics. Overall I really liked it. So, again, me as a pansexual: love a good queer film and also being polyamorous or non-monogamous it was so nice seeing that to your point represented so positively, and without judgment. That was so surprising to me I really thought that there was going to be some sort of aspect from the point of view of the viewer to not want them to succeed. But the whole time you really do you're rooting for them. Mike: If you're a fan of history in comic books I think this is a great movie to go check out. My final thought is that reminded me a lot of Kinsey. Did you ever see that? It had Liam Neeson and Laura Linney in it and it's all about Kinsey, the guy created the Kinsey scale of sexuality. Jessika: Oh okay I'll have to check it out Mike: It's great. This kind of reminded me the same way where it's mostly true. It's not quite all there because they have to tszuj it up for the audiences. Jessika: Yeah, yeah. Well, let's move on to our other film that we watched which was Wonder Woman from 2009. And that was the animated origin story of Wonder Woman Do you want to give an overview of the film for us? Mike: Yeah, sure. This is one of the original DC Universe Animated Original Movies which were at the time this came out in 2009 they were still in their infancy. They'd only done three before. This one is loosely based on George Perez's acclaimed 1980s storyline called "Gods and Monsters" and it's written by Gail Simone and Michael Jelenic. Gail Simone has gotten her own amount of acclaim for writing Wonder Woman as well. The film introduces us to the Amazons who win a war against Ares and then they're granted the Island of Themiscyra and immortality in exchange for acting as Ares' jailer by the gods. Diana is later sculpted from clay and given life by the gods. This is kind of in direct opposition to the current mythos of Zeus being her deadbeat dad and then Diana lives on the Island for thousands of years until pretty much the modern day when two key events happen. Steve Trevor crashes on the Island by happenstance and then Ares stages of jailbreak. And Diana has to take Steve back to the United States and he helps her and request to stop the god of war. Jessika: And actually pretty similar to where they tried to go with the original Wonder Woman. So this was absolutely not a cartoon for children. Mike: Nooooo. Jessika: blood spattered backgrounds, fairly graphic death scenes, and three beheadings three beheadings. We're talking the head flying off and falling dramatically at someone's feet kind of beheading. And that being said I didn't particularly mind the violent nature of the animation as a movie for adults as I feel that it was done in a way that felt true to the battle and the struggle of what was happening in the storyline and it didn't feel overly gross in its depictions or its animations like just enough to give the definite impression that violence was occurring. That makes sense Ares is a super violent guy and he affects everyone around him into violence themself so that it did make sense in that way. So things I liked is that it it seemed to me like a fairly good representation of Wonder Woman's origin story as it was originally told by Marston based on what I was reading. Mike: Yeah it it felt like a very classic take on Wonder Woman's origin. And it was very familiar to someone who grew up nominally aware of her origins and reading her mini comics with her action figure and stuff like that. Jessika: One main difference was that the movie was set in seemingly present day America. Since at one point Wonder Woman ends up fighting in a mall, the fighter planes that Steve and company were flying looked modern for 2009. Marston's Wonder Woman was originally set in World War Two of course whereas the 2018 live action film with Gal Gadot was set in World War One. So we've just jumped around. Again DC is definitely not consistent. Mike: It's comic books. And DC's own in- comics timeline has been drastically reworked several times just in our lifetime. Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. And this time period change it definitely affects the vibe and political climate of American society at that time in the cartoon we're not presented with a particular war or a reason for fighting we're evidently just supposed to understand that the world of men is in constant battle every moment. Whereas in the original comic and Wonder Woman film Both took place during large global wars where it wouldn't be a far leap to present the god of war as the cause of those events. Mike: Yeah, absolutely. Jessika: Now things I didn't like cause apparently I veered into not liking and then we're continuing down that road. For someone that wasn't raised in a patriarchal society, Diana's internalized misogyny is staggering. At one point she says to Steve, "you're starting to sound like a woman" when he's discussing having feelings for her and later says to Ares, "how can you expect to beat Zeus If you can't even beat a girl." The fuck that? Mike: Which kind of goes against everything else that she does in the movie. Jessika: Yeah it directly against it. Yeah, so that was irritating. And then not only that, the president, because apparently they're in Washington DC, the president is told that they were saved by a group of armored supermodels. Which I had to rewind it and write that line down grossed. Out It's such a condescending and reductive statement to make about individuals that just saved your lives while you apparently slept through the whole situation, Mr President. And it drives home the point that even in heroism, women's worth is still viewed only in her attractiveness. Mike: Yeah there was a lot of that. Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. They also have Diana do quite a bit of killing with absolutely no thought whatsoever which is not in the original character at all. That doesn't feel very Diana. Mike: I mean, no. But at the same time I don't particularly have a problem with it but yeah Jessika: Yeah. So that was me. What about you? Were you at with that? Mike: I think I had a slightly more positive take on the movie. I mean it sounds like you still enjoyed it, right? Jessika: Oh, I liked it. I still liked it. Yeah. Mike: Part of it is just I viewed it at the time when it first came out and this was one of the first animated original movies. And it was the first one that I remember enjoying. So I think that it's definitely tinted my perspective a little bit. Jessika: You had a nostalgia factor that I didn't I hadn't seen it prior. Mike: I remember seeing the reviews for it and I was like, "Oh this looks really cool. The others that were released before that they were all, well two of the three were just straight adaptations of other you know quote unquote iconic stories So there is Superman: Doomsday which was the death and life of Superman and I did not give a shit about that movie. It was really I felt flat. Then there was Justice League: The New Frontier which is based on a really acclaimed mini series. And then there was Batman Gotham Knight which was -if I remember right- it was several different animated shorts and different animated styles. And none of them really did it for me. But the DC Animated Universe, which was helmed by Bruce Timm, so that's like the original Batman animated series from the nineties as well as the Superman series and then Justice League and then Batman Beyond or vice versa and then Justice League Unlimited, those were all incredible. And I knew that eventually we would get to the same point with the animated movies and Wonder Woman felt like that home run that I knew they'd eventually hit. So I really enjoyed the film overall and even watching it yesterday afternoon I had a blast, you know, even a decade later. I think its strongest element is that the movie clearly has zero fucks to give. That battle between the Amazons and Ares is incredibly violent and it's obvious from the first 30 seconds in that this is going to be a RIDE. And it doesn't shy away from some really tough narrative elements like where Hippolyta actually in that battle It's revealed that she kills Thrax, the son of Ares. Thrax is her child who is very heavily implied the product of rape by Jessika: Ares. Mike: Also the vocal cast is just incredible. This was 2009 Keri Russell, Nathan Fillion, Virginia Madsen, Rosario Dawson, Alfred Molina, and then Oliver Platt. They were really well-regarded actors at the time and they're still pretty big and side note Oliver Platt was in both of the movies that we watched for this Jessika: episode. I literally thought of that when you said that. Mike: he fucking steals every scene he's in. He was just this delightful villainous Hades and he's kinda gross but he's also just wonderfully sinister. I really dug that and I also really dug how it felt like a pretty faithful adaptation of the origin while still feeling fresh and fast. Like this movie is not long. That kind of leads into something that I didn't like was that It's a very short movie. It's barely over an hour long. I feel like we needed a director's cut or something because of the lines could have been fleshed out a little bit more like this is something Look Jessika: who wants director's cut now. Mike: Release the Simone cut or something, I don't know. I feel like there were a couple of sub plot lines that were kind of just glossed over. Like I mentioned Thrax is actually Diana's half-brother. I feel like maybe there might've been something more there. Maybe there wasn't, who knows. But it just it felt like something that I would have liked a little more room to breathe. And that's said, it was pretty solid. That said there were some problematic elements. Like Steve was so gross and so cringy Jessika: He kept calling her Angel and I just wanted to punch him in the jaw. Mike: Which, I mean, so that's like a thing from the comics and his other earlier incarnations but this time around it just felt gross. It felt like "babe" and you know blech. Jessika: Yeah. Yeah. He just he rolled in and was like "Oh naked ladies I'm in right place for me." Mike: And the problem is that Nathan Fillion was just too good at making him a sleazebag. Jessika: Which, love Nathan Fillion. Mike: I do too. Like, okay dude, we get it. He's kind of a gross misogynist. We don't need him to hit on Diana for the fifth time in as many minutes. Etta Candy viewing Diana as competition was also dumb. Candy's always been one of her best friends and I still think that her incarnation in the original movie was pitch perfect. And then her being this skinny little supermodel who's trying to flirt with Steve was dumb. You mentioned the other problematic misogynistic elements that I noted. the only other thing, and this wasn't an actual problem, was that I didn't realize how much better Wonder woman's costume is these days rather than the super swimsuit that we had for so long. It's funny because growing up with it, I never thought about it. And then really only in the last five years or so we've gotten a much more a

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The Barrett Brief - Covid-19, Yeah It's A Cult  Here is what is happening today in the Brief. First Covid-19, Yeah It's A Cult   na[qtplaces mapid="" template="1" open="1" limit="" mapheight="500" mapheightmobile="" autozoom="1" streetview="1" getdirections="Open in Google Maps" mapcolor="normal" listimages="1" showfilters="1" posttype="" taxonomy="" terms="" debug="0" mousewheel="0" buttoncolor="" buttonbackground="" listbackground="" markercolor=""] Second Daniel Savickas  Third, Is Barstool Conservatism The Future? Also Law Enforcement Confirms What We Already Knew About The Capitol Riots, Obliterates Democrats’ Narrative As well as Cherokee Nation’s Principal Chief Does Not Think Jeep Should Use Tribe’s Name For Vehicles Finally don't forget the world famous "you gotta be kidding me" What Is The Crusade Channel? The CRUSADE Channel, The Last LIVE! Radio Station Standing begins our LIVE programming with our all original CRUSADE Channel News hosted by 28 year radio ace, Stacey Cohen. Coupled with Mike “The King Dude” Church entertaining you during your morning drive and Rick Barrett giving you the news of the day and the narrative that will follow during your lunch break! We’ve interviewed over 200 guests, seen Brother Andre Marie notch his 200th broadcast of Reconquest; the The Mike Church Show over 1200 episodes; launched an original LIVE! News Service; written and produced 4 Feature Length original dramas including The Last Confession of Sherlock Holmes and set sail on the coolest radio product ever, the 5 Minute Mysteries series! We are the ONLY outlet to cover the Impeachment of President Trump from gavel to gavel!  Now that you have discovered The Crusade, get 30 days for FREE of our premium service just head to: https://crusadechannel.com OR download our FREE app: https://apps.appmachine.com/theveritasradionetworkappIti- Did you know about Cult? If you are interested in supporting small business, be sure to check out the official store of the Crusade Channel, the Founders Tradin Post! Not to mention our amazing collection of DVD’s, Cigars, T-Shirts, bumper stickers and other unique selection of items selected by Mike Church! 

On the inaugural episode of the return of Yeah It's That Bad, we discuss Paul Walkers Italian accent, GABAGOOL, and our sanity. Is this the end of the podcast already? --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/yitbr/support

On this week's Stack podcast, check out reviews for: Seven Secrets #1, Dark Nights Death Metal #3, Something is Killing the Children #9, Empyre #5, The Flash #759, Adventureman #3, Marauders #11, Judge Dredd: False Witness #2, Wonder Woman #760, Big Girls #1, The Immortal Hulk #36, Stealth #4, The Amazing Spider-Man #46, Transformers: Galaxies #8 and Excellence #9. SUBSCRIBE ON RSS, ITUNES, ANDROID, SPOTIFY, STITCHER OR THE APP OF YOUR CHOICE. FOLLOW US ON TWITTER, AND FACEBOOK. SUPPORT OUR SHOWS ON PATREON. TRANSCRIPT: Alex:         What's up, you all? Welcome to The Stack, I'm Alex. Justin:       I'm Justin. Pete:         I'm Pete. Alex:         And on The Stack, we're talking about a bunch of books that have come out this very week. Kicking it off with a big new book from BOOM! Studios, Seven Secrets #1, written by Tom Taylor and illustrated by Daniele Di Nicuolo. Pete, I want to go to you first, because I was very surprised to hear, I think this was your favorite book of the week. Is that right? Pete:         It really was. Justin:       Yes. Pete:         It is. It's a great book, I love the art. It's a very interesting idea, that there are seven secrets and they are highly guarded secrets. And people kind of like dedicate their lives to them. There's this kind of like societies built around, protecting the secrets. I think it's just a very creative idea, and fun, amazing art. A lot of action right out of the box. So, yeah, I think this is a great book. I'm very excited for more. Justin:       Yeah, I agree. This is really fun. It reminded me a lot of the Iron Fist run, that I want to say, Matt Fraction did which dealt with the… Alex:         I think it was Fraction and (Ed) Brubaker, right? Justin:       Yes, yes, that is accurate. Which got into all the different sort of fighting squads in doing battle throughout all of time. It has that same sort of dynamic art style, and feels like it's very numerical, you're chasing very specific things. So, I really like this. Alex:         Yeah, I thought this is great as well. I mean Tom Taylor is such, such a reliable writer and Daniele Di Nicuolo almost has like this Proto, Manga style in a way, where feels more detailed than that in terms of the fight, but the propulsive nature of the action suggests that a little bit. There's also a really good emotional underpinning, that I won't spoil for any or somebody who's planning on reading of the book. My only little quibbled with it… Pete:         Hey, watch yourself. Alex:         All that… It reminded me a little bit in pacing of Wynd from BOOM! Studios, another book we really liked a lot. But both of them felt like… Just to take like a very broad view, back in the day, you had these ‘done in one issue', right? People still do aim for done in one issue, then you had (Brian Michael) Bendis came along with Ultimate Spider-Man and this whole decompression, and aiming for the trade thing. Both Wynd and Seven Secrets which I both like a lot, seem almost different in a way where it's not decompression for the trade, so much as here are the first 20 pages of the story. Where they ended places, where it's like not even the of a chapter, exactly, so much is it almost feels in the middle of a chapter. and I need to read the second issue to understand more of what's going on. I don't know if you guys got that same feeling for that. Justin:       No, I hear you. Especially in Wynd. Pete:         That's a very weird thing to say, but, okay. Justin:       No, but I get it from a storytelling perspective, it's like we've talked about writing for the trade for almost the entire run of our podcast, and this is taking it to the next level. It's like literally writing the trade, and then chopping it up with like a butcher's knife, and here's the first issue. Alex:         Yeah, which is, it's a good first issue, and I highly recommend picking it up. But it just, it needs more, for me. Pete:         I don't… Yeah, I disagree. I think the ending was a fucking crazy ending and it's a kind of fun place to leave it off until next time. Alex:         It's good. It's a good book. Definitely pick it up. That's why we wanted to lead with it. Next up, Dark Nights: Death Metal #3 from DC Comics written by Scott Snyder and art by Greg Capullo. Talk about wild. This is a wild ride to through the DC Universe. The heroes of the DC Universe are being completely beaten down by the Batman Who Laughs, who now is the Dark Knight, I think he's called. Justin:       The Darkest Knight. Alex:         Yeah, there we go… Because he has Doctor Manhattan powers. They're trying to stave off the death of the Multiverse as usual, as you do. And so, they've invaded Apocalypse to go and rescue Superman in this issue. Some other things happen. How'd did you feel about this? Pete:         Now this is just a fun comic. Like by the title it's like, Dark Nights: Death Metal. Like let's take this, what we know and love, and just turn it to 11. You got para Robins; you've got like insane crazy ideas. Everything is fun and over the top about this. You've got Superman with like knuckle-dusters on. I mean this is just crazy fun that like you know, just makes the young kid inside of you excited about what you're seeing on the page. [00:05:00] Justin:       The way you even structure your review, Pete, reminds me of Stefon on SNL, which is actually sort of a good description of this book. But it's like you want to go to the craziest night club in the DC Universe. [laughter] Pete:         Yeah. Justin:       You've got Batman a dinosaurs, you've got a dwarf riding another Batman. And that's literally what this is, it's like a million ideas jammed up in a blender and spread out over a crisis style storyline line. And I like it as well. It's like they took a hammer to the Elseworld's annual crossover from like the late ‘90s, smashed up all those bits, jammed them together, and we're like, “This is an event we're actually going to spend some time in.” And this issue, especially, I thought was super fun. All the Superman stuff was great. The Mister Miracle escape, all that. I… Pete:         Yeah. The use of Mister Miracle is amazing. The dark side of Batman was crazy. Like seeing Wonder Woman with like a metal ass chainsaw. It was just so badass. Justin:       I could do with a few less Batman, let me just say that. Alex:         Yes, it is… We're reaching critical mass with Batman, and I think they would kind of realized that to the point where Harley Quinn is like, “Man, he's really good with branding”, and just calling that out. And I think like that's the sort of cheeky self-awareness that makes this work, because it's Scott Snyder realizing how ludicrously over the top it is. Everything that's going on and leaning into that, versus saying, “No, no, no. This is serious stuff here. Okay, there's a lot of Batman.” It doesn't feel… The stakes are high, but it doesn't feel serious at any point, and I think that's good. Like that gets into you. One of my favorite characters from Scott Snyder's run, we get Jarro the pint-sized Starro [overlap talk] who think Batman is his dad. Pete:         Come on. Alex:         It's great. It's super fun, and cute. Justin:       It's so funny. Alex:         That's enjoyable. I do want to ask you guys… Pete:         The all hands in moment was fun. Alex:         Super fun. I did feel like this issue was a little more expository than I would've liked. There was a lot of standing around and be like, “Okay, real quick, here's what we need to do, and here's what's going on. This is complicated. I'm just going to bring you up to speed”, in between the fun moments. But there was a hint that there's something else going on with both Batman and Superman, where they turn to each other in the middle, after they freed Superman. And I think it's Superman says, “Does Diana know about you?” And Batman says, “No. Does she know about you?” So, what do you think's going on with them? What is the deal? Justin:       I don't know, that moment it stressed me out little bit because it… To me, not to be the Pete in the situation… Pete:         Yeah. Justin:       But it made me feel like it's going to be like, “Did you tell her that this is all a simulation that's happening?”  “No, I didn't tell her. Did you?” It felt like a ‘too cool for school secret' that I don't want to disrupt the flow just when I'm really getting into the flow of the book. Pete:         Yeah, yeah. Alex:         Yeah. I could see something like that. I mean my big thought is that Batman is already dead. That he died, that's why he's running around with the Black Lantern Ring. That's why he was able to escape the omega beams, that hit him from the Dark Side Batman. I don't know what Superman's secret is, but to me that feels like the most reasonable thing that could happen to him, and that would be sad for Diana because they essentially have already lost. Pete:         Well, but like this is, it sort of exists in the dark Multiverse. So, it's the flip flop of everything. So, maybe that's the win, the fact that they're already dead or there's something, where it's going to be something with emotional resonance, like them being dead, but that is actually the victory they find or the loophole they escape through. Alex:         I mean, I think you kind of just said this, but what if the whole thing is in the Dark Multiverse? What if they're not in the Real Multiverse at all but this is just where the heroes have lost already, and this the flip side of the story to show them the way that things could've have gone horribly wrong. Justin:       Yeah, I mean that to me… Because all this hype about like this is the real continuity. I'm like, “I don't need that.” This is just as good a story if it takes place in a Dark Multiverse, but I think what emerges from that I guess is what the lesson is. It's are we going to get this Superman in the world or some version of these characters. Alex:         Good fun stuff. Moving on, Something is Killing the Children #9 from BOOM! Studios written by James Tynion IV, illustrated by Werther Dell'Edera. If you happen to read this book Something is Killing the Children, it's a bunch of monsters. They like to eat children. And there's one woman who may or may not be able to stop them. In this issue, she trying to appeal to a young boy who has previously been attacked by the monsters to try and act as bait for them. Man, this book is so good. So, well drawn, so well written. This is almost the opposite of what I was saying with Seven Secrets where it's like not a lot happens every issue but it feels so weighted every single time. [00:10:06] Justin:       Yeah, there's just a creeping dread all the time, and we get little dribs and drabs of backstory each time. It's really interesting, and also really horrifying, the stuff that happens. The adults feel like they're crippled and stuck in place the entire time. There's a whole section about like, “I'm just handing out beers, because I don't know what else to do.” While the kids are either being murdered or trying to act against these monsters. And the sort of reveal, at the end, is interesting and maybe spins the story in a different direction. Pete:         Yeah, I mean this is a very interesting comic. Each issue has been a fun surprise of like, what's kind of in store. In this one, we kind of get her back story, the main hunter's backstory and it's very cool the way it's told. I really love the paneling and the art of this book. It's just very unique and cool. And I think this is one of my favorites in this stack. It's really great every time we get to read this. Alex:         I agree. Let's move back to Marvel for Empyre#5 story by Dan Slott and Al Ewing, written by Al Ewing, art by Valerio Schiti. And when I say move back to Marvel, this is the first time we're talking about Marvel in The Stack. I thought here's another on… [chuckle] So, this is the second to the last issue of Empyre, Marvel's big events, which is plants versus zombies. In this, the Cotati, a plant race, has been attacking Earth. They want to take over the Earth and the entire universe. The Kree and Skrull are trying to stop them. But in the middle of all of that whole Hulkling has been leading the Kree and the Skrull army, except not really. There's actually somebody masquerading as him, Wiccan who secretly married him. Figured that out the last issue. That's where they pick up this issue, with both that, and the fact, that She-Hulk, who has been taken over by one of these plant creatures, and is supposedly dead is attacking the Thing. So, lots of stuff going on here. As we round up this event, how are you feeling about it? Pete:         Well this issue, I'm like, “All right now, things are happening.” Like things are really cooking now. I feel like I'm just starting to get into this event. But this was a great issue; a lot happened. It's sad though we didn't address the She-Hulk stuff yet, but I feel like this had a great amount of kind of like story mixed with action and the weight of everything happening. I really like this issue. Justin:       I like this issue too. It really is… I'm so surprised it's ending already. It does feel like it's just ramping up. It feels so short to go right into the final movement right here. I really like that they folded in the wedding between Hulkling and Wiccan, as sort of a main story point. Like that feels really good. But I feel like I need two more issues to really elevate the stakes. And if the She-Hulk death is like the whole thing here, it's like… I don't know, it feels a little disjointed. Alex:         It's… Pete:         I… Oh, I'm sorry… Alex:         All I was going to say is, this struck me over the past couple of issues but it really started to hit me with this one. And I know this isn't a TV show, so it's the wrong term, but there's not enough sets in this book. Like it takes place… Pete:         Ha… Weird. Alex:         It takes place on the alien ship mostly, where they really haven't left the throne room that Hulkling is in. And then there's a couple of glimpses of other places that they go to that mostly seem motivated by what's happening in the spin offs side stories. So, we get a bunch of stuff at Wakanda, but it's more like here's an overview of what's happening in other places, and then Tony Stark and Reed Richards are just hanging out in Avengers Mountain and putting together a suit. So, like you guys are saying every issue of this is good and fun. Dan Slott and Al Ewing know what they're doing. Valero Schiti's art is very good superhero art, but there's not a lot going on, which is surprising. Pete:         Yeah… So first of, I want to say I'm sorry Wakanda is not enough for you. Secondly, I love… Alex:         Hey, what can you, Wakanda do about that? Pete:         Ahhhhhh… Justin:       Oh, boy. Alex:         Giddy-up… [chuckles] Pete:         Anyways… I really love The Thing stuff in here like this. Like when you're talking about a classic fight and this whole thing about giving up. I thought that was a perfect kind of monologue for The Thing to have. I really thought it was a cool bad ass moment. Alex:         Yeah, I agree The Thing stuff is good, the character stuff is good, like I was saying it's well written, it's well drawn. I just want a little more out of a big cosmic event. Justin:       Yeah, of course, the small moments are great and you would expect that out of these writers, but like when you think about the great epic crossovers like Infinity Gauntlet, every issue a massive event happened, and you really felt the movement of the book. [00:15:00] And to your point Alex, there aren't a lot of sets; the movement has been very small. And you want those big sweeping moments like remember that… I want to say fifth issue of Infinity Gauntlet, when all of the beings of the universe showed up and it was like, “holy shit”. It felt huge, and this feels small. Alex:         Maybe part of it is the name. They've been selling it as this big event. They've been building up for a while. They called it Empyre, and so far, the Cotati haven't done anything. Like they're trying to take over Earth, but we don't get to actually see them really taking over Earth. Not to armchair write this but I want to see them take over Earth in issue one, and then expand outward from that like what happens next how what happens when they start to actually take over the universe make this a big thing and it just I don't know it feels small. Next up, Dryad #4 from Oni Press, written by Curtis Wiebe and illustrated by Justin Osterling. We launched this in a live show, but we are setting up an interview with the creative team. So, check for that in your local Comic Book Club feed. But this book is great and wild, every issue. We talked about it as the heir to Saga very purposely. I think, in the promotional materials, they call it the Saga Continues for the next issues. But if you haven't been reading, it started off as a fantasy story. It's about two parents, take their kids, hide out in a fantasy style town. Turns out, it's not really a fantasy world; it's actually a tech world with some fantasy looking creatures. Magic has disappeared, except the dad actually has magic. And last issue, they got picked up by a mercenary team, and taken back to the city that they've fled from, that's where they had this issue. Things go terribly wrong for there. I just don't know what this book is, from issue to issue, and I love it. I love it. [chuckle] Justin:       Yeah, it's mixing up a lot of stuff in a good way though it's moving through it very specifically in a smart way. I'm totally on board with it. The Saga comparison is great. I that we've made that… I think it also reminds me of Ascender and Descender as well; the image book. Because it is blending that science and magic worlds. Pete:         Yeah, I just think it's very interesting the way each issue is so different. This one is very action packed and a lot of crazy stuff going on. So, it's very cool when you pick up a book and you think you're like you have an understanding of it and it still surprises you. Justin:       Yep. Alex:         Good stuff. Let's move on to The Flash #759, from DC Comics, written by Joshua Williamson art by Rafa Sandoval and Scott Kolins. This kicking off finish line, which is technically Joshua Williamson's, I believe, last arc on The Flash. Something he teased way back when he was on our live show. So, this is something he's been building to for a really long time. Reverse Flash, Professor Zoom, has taken over Barry Allen's body, stranded him in the Speed Force, and meanwhile, he's trying to turn all of his friends against him. I know you guys aren't really into the speedsters. I, of course, enjoyed this issue because I love the speedsters. Love Bart Allen, like seeing him interacting with Barry and everybody else. What'd you guys feel about this one? Pete:         Well, I felt like we had, the art's unbelievable. And then, we had like an evil Flash messing with a younger big haired Flash, and then all old timey Flash was like, “Leave them damn kids alone.” Alex:         Oh, it was great, what a great cliff-hanger. Justin:       Yep, what a great summary of the book. Almost like a live reading of it. [chuckles] Alex as such a fan of the speedsters, does this make you like do wind sprints or does this make you sort of speed up in your own life. Alex:         I never stop moving when I read this book. Pete:         Wow. Alex:         Like I'm just, I'm going, going, going, the entire time. Justin:       Always on your treadmill that doesn't travel through time. Your very terrestrial… Alex:         My comic treadmill. [overlap talk] Justin:       Ah, that's good stuff. Pete:         Oh, boy. Justin:       I like this. I love Impulse, one of my favorite characters in the original comic, way back in the day. So, it's great to see him here and sort of getting a little bit of an emotional moment, which I think is something that's been missing from the character of Bart Allen for a while. It's sad to see Barry Allen being such a jerk. Alex:         Yep. There you go… Next up, Adventureman #3 from Image Comics written by Matt Fraction, pencils and colors by Terry Dodson, inks by Rachel Dodson. This about a woman who discovers that the old timey pulp hero, she loves and obsessed with, was actually real. She becomes the heir to his power and his mysteries and everything else. In this issue, she's dealing with that in some very weird ways. [00:20:01] As it turns out, she's just getting real buff and larger. And getting information that is powered by the pulp stories that powered Adventureman. This is great. I love seeing Matt Fraction just having fun and also clearly just leaning into letting the Dodson's do their stuff. Pete:         Yeah, yeah. This is what, I mean if you're going to say… The art is worth picking this up alone. I mean this is definitely… Alex:         If I was going say that Pete? Pete:         If anybody was going to say it. I'm just saying… Justin:       If any one of the three of us were to hypothetically say that… [chuckle] Let's call it a catch phrase. Pete:         Yeah. I feel like… This story is good, but really, it's just fantastic art, and it's so weird the way we're kind jumping between worlds and stuff. But I'm very interested in the story. I think it moves really well. We're kind of finding things out with the main character, which is cool. But yeah, it's interesting. I'm curious to see how this kind of unfolds. Justin:       The main character grows 15 inches in her time. What would happen with you guys if one of you or both of you grew 15 inches Alex:         Whew. I would probably scratch against the ceiling, first of all, in this basement where I'm taping right now. Justin:       [chuckle] That's right, because you're already six two, right? Alex:         Yeah, I'm very tall, as you guys know. [chuckes] Justin:       Yeah. Pete:         Yep. Justin:       Maybe you have grown this much. We don't even know. Alex:         That'll probably hurt a lot, right? Justin, you probably know this, but when my kids grow, they go crazy, like literally, insane. Justin:       Yeah… When children grow, they scream the entire time, right? Alex:         Yup, pretty much. Justin:       That's what happening with my kids… Pete, if you grew, you'd be mad, though, because you like to be Wolverine sized. Pete:         Yeah, I like to be short. But I would say if I would've have grown 15 inches maybe like during high school, that would've been glorious. Really could've changed my volleyball career. Alex:         Too many inches… Too many inches, I don't like it. Justin:       Also, I'd like a longer definition of volleyball career, eventually, but that's cool… It's cool for now. I like this comic a lot. I think we've given sort of the crown of cleanest comic to a TV or movie adaptation to Kieron Gillen's Once and Future. I think we can share that crown with this book. It feels like very much writing it for the eventual TV show or movie that this would become. Alex:         Yeah, and Matt Fraction and Kelly Sue DeConnick have that TV production arm, Neutral Milk Hotel or whatever it's called… Justin:       [chuckle] Whoa… Hipster slam… Pete:         Hipster slam… Alex:         Yuhhh… Got you guys, know I love you. I think you're amazing. We're happy over your house, once. It was very nice. Marauders #11 from Marvel Comics, written by Gerry Duggan and art by Stefano Caselli. Pete:         The Duggs! Alex:         This is… Man, this cover, so nervous with this cover. You know I love the Kate Pryde, man. I was really nervous, man, Pete:         Yeah, man. Alex:         I was really freaking out, it was tweaking here. Justin:       It's game over man. Alex:         Game over, Red. So, Kate Pryde was killed off a couple of issues back, by Sebastian Shaw on a boat. She wasn't coming back. She wasn't allowed to Krakoa. They couldn't reincarnate her in a new body. That's what this issue is dealing with. I'll spoil it right here… Three, two, one… Kate Pryde comes back! They figure out how to get her back. It turns out that she wasn't able to phase through their eggs, and all that Emma needs to do is pull her through. I'll tell you what, I love that Gerry Duggan is pushing the ‘frenemy-ship' or whatever you want to call it between Emma Frost and Kate Pryde. So much fun, I'm glad she's back. I know there's more mysteries to figure out but this a good book. I enjoyed it. Pete:         I got some questions. Alex:         Yeah, what up, Pete? Pete:         So, we get kind of, she has like a Viking funeral, do they purposely kind of make her look like Michael Jackson… In the boat? Or is that just me… Justin:       Let me ask you, Pete… Pete:         Like it was a weird choice, for she has like the kind of red jacket, and then the quarters over eyes or half dollars… Alex:         Oh yeah, like how Michael Jackson always had half dollars over his eyes? Pete:         No, but I mean it looks like a Michael Jackson outfit. Justin:       Like Captain Eel? Pete:         Yeah, I'm just… Maybe it's just me… Alex:         Okay. Pete:         But anyways… Justin:       Let me argue… Maybe say, Pete… I feel like maybe you're looking… If you guys have an X-Men book, you're maybe looking for something to… I believe it's called nit-pick? Pete:         Oh, interesting. Justin:       Or Pete-pick? Pete:         You know, I don't… Yeah, I mean, so we see a funeral, and then it's like me really like, “No, no… “ It was just the we didn't figure out the eggs part, right? Which, “Okay, cool, cool”  but then there was this weird moment where it was like, “Yeah, it took 18 eggs.”… “Oh, so she's 18 now?” Like that was a weird pervy moment. Alex:         Hold on. First of all, A) definitely misinterpreting that. But I did want to ask about that moment just because it's Nightcrawler calls out that they tried to resurrection her 18 times. I did a quick search for that because it seemed to me that was like some sort of religious thing that I wasn't picking up on. I couldn't find anything on it. I don't know if you guys know if there's anything from non-Judaism? I want to say Christianity or Catholicism… But something that is about 18 resurrections? Is there anything about that? Pete:         No. Not that I know… That's just why I thought it was something about her age or something because she's always been younger. Alex:         No, it's not about the age. It's definitely about like the 18 resurrections. So, I don't know if it means that there's like 18 Kate Pryde bodies out there that Nightcrawler's going to find, or if that is a specific reference to something. It was definitely a weird moment, but it was not a creepy age moment. Pete:         Okay, well it's definitely a weird moment that stuck out to me. Justin:       I would say we're not the most theological podcast hosts, when it comes to doing a deep dive on a religious reference. Alex:         Sure… Pizza priest though. Justin:       Pizza priest… No, pizza, pizza priest. Alex:         Yehey, pizza priest. Pete:         Yeah… Have a pizza priest. I'm not a regular priest. Justin:       Nice… I don't know the reference. I did like this book. I liked the position Kate Pryde had in the X-Men world where she was sort of ‘outsided' and not allowed. It's a good mystery. I don't know if that's over now, or what the deal is going forward. But I think this book is a fun sort of side book to the X-Men universe right now. Alex:         Yeah, I agree. Stefano Caselli's art is always good. Let's move on to Judge Dredd: False Witness #2 from IDW, story by Brandon Easton, art by Zei Kama, excuse me, Kei Zama. I think we have some pretty nice things to say about this book last time, which is why I thought it would be interesting to revisit. This is somebody on the outskirts, who lives in the wastelands outside of Mega-City One, comes into the city finds out that him and other people like him are being harvested. And that's where we pick up this issue. He continues to run very parallel to the storyline with Judge Dredd. But I like this book. I think, I'm surprised how much I like this book because I'm not the usual Judge Dredd fan. But I think it's doing a good job of channeling social commentary storytelling character along the way, even though you do have these two characters that really have not met yet at all. Justin:       I feel like a lot a book we'll talk about in a little bit, Transformers book, and a lot of like books that have been around for a long time that maybe need a little reinvention. I think there's been a lot of smart takes, and this feels like right in that line where it's like, “Let's look at these characters from a different angle and find a new story here.” I don't know what… so I like this. It remind me of a show called Exosquad… You guys ever watch Exosquad back in the day? Alex:         No… I've heard the name. Justin:       Pete, no? Pete:         Nothing. Yeah, I don't know what you're talking… Justin:       Cartoon… Very cool. Pete:         What's it about? Help me out. Justin:       It's a lot like, sort of pilots of these mech-suits. They have cool haircut. There's a lot of good relationships in it. It's fun. Pete:         Cool. Justin:       It's in the world in the sort of the style of Starcom, you ever watch that? Pete:         No. No. Justin:       I guess maybe I grew up in a different Multiverse. [chuckles] Alex:         Yeah. Pete:         Yeah. I guess so. Alex:         This does feel like stuff that is right across to play for you, Pete. I'm surprised you don't know it. Pete:         Yeah, yeah. I mean you can't watch every cartoon, I guess. Justin:       That's true. Pete:         Yeah, I would like to try, I would like to try, yeah. I just want this to kind of get going. I thought this was really cool comic I do like this, but I wanted the main characters to kind of come together a little bit it. It seemed a little too side story, but I really think it's very cool. Art's great. Alex:         Let's move on to something that was a huge surprise for me in a very pleasant way. Wonder Woman #760 from DC Comics, written by Mariko Tamaki, art by Mikel Janin. So, Wonder Woman is, at least initially, going up against Maxwell Lord, thinks Maxwell Lord is brain washing a bunch of people in the city. By the end, things seem to be going at a very different direction. Mariko Tamaki is… On such a roll. Justin:       Yeah. Alex:         Just with writing, with her storytelling, with every that's going on. This is one of the better Wonder Woman arcs I think I've read in a very long time. [00:30:04] I love that it's not mining the Greek Gods stuff anymore, or anything like that. But it still feels very emotionally grounded. And man, Mikel Janin's art is gorgeous. Pete:         So good. Justin:       Yeah, the art is so good in this. How about that cute rabbit… I mean damn. Alex:         Yes. Justin:       Yeah, Melanie the Rabbit, I believe is the name. Alex:         Yeah… I also want to call out the cover, which is one of the best covers I've seen in a really long time. Pete:         Yeah, I just Wonder Woman, like kind of talking shit to robots. I loved it. Justin:       Well what I liked about this and a lot of Mariko Tamaki's work is, rather than… I feel there's such a trend in trying to scoop up every aspect of the characters and trying to like mash it up and be like, “This is what it all means.” and I think that's just, it's so much work when this is just a great story that is like scoping up some aspects, and being like, “Here are the things about Wonder Woman I want to talk about,” and then telling that story. And I think this is great. If you're a fan of Alias, the (Brian Michael) Bendis book from back in the day, the Jessica Jones character…  I think feel like there's a connection point there, especially with the Purple Man stuff, in this book. Pete:         Yeah, yeah. You got the creepy mind control guy. But yeah, I really think the art is great. We get the pair of demons, there's a lot of fun stuff going on. But yeah, the writing is the real hero. This is very interesting. I'm excited to see where this goes. Alex:         Let's roll out to a new book from Image Comics, Big Girls #1, story and art by Jason Howard. This is about a world where some children are growing to gigantic size, men grow into monsters, women usually grow into gigantic helpful people… There's one… [chuckles] Justin:       That's such a true statement. Alex:         Yeah. A gigantic helpful woman who is trying to hold back the monsters. And that's basically what you get in the first issue, as well as some moral quandaries. I overall like this, but had some concerns about it. Curious to hear what you guys think though. Pete:         Yeah, there was a kind of a real fucked up moment in the book. Justin:       Yes. Pete:         That I was like, “Yeah, I don't know if you can come back from that.” But it's a fun premise. It's cool. The art's great. I'm excited to see where this goes but it's an interesting enough story that I'm definitely going to pick up the next issue. Justin:       Yeah, I agree that. It felt like, of all the comics we read and cite, it's so hard to have a premise that feels super fresh, and then executing it in a way that invites you in with the characters. And I think this book does a good job of that and it's a fun surprising idea, and it's such a visual idea that I think is well done. And the emotional hit that… I guess we're not spoiling… It was sort of harsh. Pete:         Yeah… It was very harsh Justin:       Especially, the way the story was told where that harsh moment happened, and then the reason why it happened came after, which I think was smart from a storytelling perspective, but a little more difficult to read. Pete:         Yeah. It was tough on the reader. Alex:         I'm curious to see where they go with this one, because my big concern about it was, I love the idea that men grow up to be monsters, women are the only people who could protect us… Like there's so much metaphor that you can mine there, and I think it hasn't quite gotten there yet and it also muddies the ground a lot with the reveal at the end of the issue, which again, I won't spoil here. So, it's going to be interesting to see what Jason Howard has to say with this comic, and how he says it. Particularly, because he is a man saying something about misogyny, so I don't know. There's a lot of opportunity with this book, and I'm very excited to see where it goes. Jason Howards aren't always very good, but again, I'm a little concerned/nervous about what direction it might head in. Justin:       I really thought earlier on, that you're going to say, “Oh, it's like men are from Mars and women, they're from Venus.” [chuckles] Alex:         Yeah. Have you thought about that?… Have you thought about it? Immortal Hulk #36 from Marvel, written by Al Ewing and art by Joe Bennett. Man, this book is fucked up bad. Oh my god. Justin:       Yeah. Alex:         It's fucked up… Hulk is now, Dumb Hulk, and Rick is evil, and turned into to a horrible monster. Absorbing Man is getting ripped into pieces. Horrible things are happening all the time. Pete:         I can't take this anymore… I'm tapping out. I want my Hulk back. I can't… This was cool for a little while, guys. But it's getting weird now. [chuckles] It's getting really weird now, guys. Justin:       I still love this book. I'm very excited for the story line coming with a leader; I feel like we're leading up to. [00:35:03] Pete:         Yeah. Justin:       But… Alex:         Well, I think the leader is inside of Rick, right? Justin:       Yeah, but it's like… Well the trap hasn't been fully sprung; I feel like. Alex:         Okay. Justin:       But I also think another title for this book would be, Everybody's Clay Face…? Pete:         Yeah. Justin:       In a lot of ways… And to Pete's point, how does Hulk come back from this and go back to being just a regular old dude? Pete:         I just… Yeah… I can't anymore. Alex:         I feel like they're already doing it though, right? Like there was no way they were going to keep Hulk out of crossovers and showing up in other books. I wish they had. I wish they could've kept it in this own pocket thing. But they've already had him show up, and be like, “Yeah, I'm the Asshole Hulk, let me help you.” [chuckles] It just doesn't quite work at all. But to your point, Justin… Like particularly, Joe Bennett's art is… Shade. The splash page towards the beginning that reveals the twisted monstrous Rick… Pete:         No… no… Alex:         Is nightmarish like literally out of a nightmare and it's… amazing. It's great stuff. Justin:       Yeah. Pete:         It's too much. Alex:         Stealth #4 from Image Comics. Pete:         They've gone too far. Alex:         [chuckle] Stealth #4 from Image Comics written by Mike Costa and art by Nate Bellegarde… I don't know why I can't pronounce that name. So, this is starting to wrap up. This story about a man who has this powerful like Dark Hawk-esk armor, the stealth armor. He is suffering for dementia. It may be because of the armor, maybe not. His son is trying to track him down and save him/help him/slash stop him Meanwhile, there's a two-faced… Half-faced, I guess, gangster… Pete:         Half a face. Alex:         Half a face, who's trying to kill him. This book is so good. And particularly, Nate Bellegarde's pacing… Pete:         Yeah. Justin:       Yeah. Alex:         That's between like amazing action and hilarious moments. Particularly in this issue, that are wonderful. Justin:       And just, there's a couple of panels… This guy gets shot, sort of halfway, maybe in the two thirds away through the book. And it's just… It's so surprisingly done that it really sticks with you. A lot of the angles that that he chooses to draw the characters from are so good. It's just a great book. Pete:         Yeah, it's really awesome. There's some real cool fight sequence stuff like this one guy gets his leg kicked in, that was really brutal. But also, what's tough for me is to see a sweet white Lincoln get destroyed. And that was that was tough. That was tough to watch. But this is a great book. Fun design on the villain, it keeps getting more and more interesting, and yeah, I'm very, very much enjoying this book. Alex:         Great stuff… Amazing Spider-Man #46 from Marvel written by Nick Spencer, and art by Marcelo Ferreira. It's continuing with the Sins Rising storyline where the Sin-Eater is back. Turns out the Sin-Eater is maybe not exactly what you think he is, and he is attacking villains. And in this issue, maybe be making them better, maybe making them worse, not entirely clear. Justin, you were very excited about this issue talk about it a little bit. Justin:       I can't believe the turn that Nick Spencer's taken this book on. After doing such a light hearted Spider-Man, and then now the Sin-Eater story, the set-up issues, and then getting here, it's like so much more topical, so much more like satirical. And it's just, these panels where Sin-Eater kills this villain and then we get this moment where the crowd starts clapping… It was devastating, and it felt like it just, it activated all of my stress about our world in a way. And Pete, to you, I don't know what you think about this. But it feels like an indictment of the Punisher, and that whole… His whole world… Pete:         Yeah, yeah. I mean they're like basically booing people who clap at violence. You know what I mean? But it's also tough because it's like there's violence in comics, and there's real life. But this is supposedly real life and they're saying that like people would enjoy killing in real life, which I don't think, if you like the Punisher that's not what you're saying in life. I mean there might be people out there like that. But I think it's nice to have a person like the Punisher fighting a good fight, instead of like going through things in normal way. It's a creative outlet for things and your anger, or this is saying people are too dark… [00:40:01] People are too fucked up, the world is too fucked up. And this is very depressing. I'm very surprised that you like this issue. This is my least favorite. You got Spider-Man kind of shaken to his core being like, “I can't believe everybody clapped. What kind of world this is? I don't feel like the quippy self, happy go lucky Spider-Man.” And it's kind of like the darkness of the world is affecting Spider-Man here. Justin:       I love that though. I think that is what… It feels like Nick Spencer is channeling the world around him, and being like, “This world feels darker than I ever thought it was.” And Spider-Man doesn't have a place in that world, in this world. And he's showing that in the story, and using this Sin-Eater as a way of talking about that, I think, is just so smart. I really love this story. Alex:         It's definitely very surprising and going in different directions. Let's move on and talk about Transformers Galaxies #8 from IDW, written by Sam Maggs, art by Beth McGuire-Smith and Umi Miyao. This is something that I think we were very surprised about the last issue. This is about a young Transformer on a ship that is escaping from Cybertron, turns out things are not exactly what they seem. This issue where he… He? She? I don't know, bro?… Yep… Pete:         It's a robot. Alex:         A robot has met up with Arcee and Greenlight to the Transformers, who revealed the truth about what's going on. And course, everybody is being brainwashed, they're trying to… they're the baddies, and yeah, that's kind what it follows. Another really good issue of this title just because it grounds the emotion of the Transformers which I am very impressed by. Justin:       Yeah, I agree. I love this. This feels like a Twilight Zone or a Black Mirror version of a Transformers story. It's tense. It's sort of stressful. It gets into like philosophy, religion, and it's just really well done. Pete:         Yeah, it's very interesting. It's cool, this kind of series, characters kind of find this information struggle within stuff. I think this as, it's hard because I keep wanting there to be more Transformers that I know, you know what I mean? They talk about Cybertron, and all that kind of stuff, and Primus… But like I keep wanting to see like a different Transformers that I know from the ‘80s, and from the cartoons, and stuff like that… But the fact that they're telling this kind of more original story is very cool. Justin:       You want them to turn into cars. Pete:         No, I just want like Laserbeak to be in the background, spying on them or you know something else. Justin:       Would you say there's more than meets the eye here? Pete:         Oh yeah, there is more. Justin:       One more question… Alex:         The thing I… Justin:       Oh, go ahead… You go ahead… Alex:         No, no, please I want to I hear your question. Justin:       No, it's just definitely unrelated [chuckle]. Alex:         My question is also unrelated, so you go ahead. Justin:       Okay, great. Well then, let me ask you… Pete, as a pizza priest, are you marrying slices back together or how does that work? Are you a priest, two slices of pizza? Or are you bringing the good word of pizza to the people? Pete:         I'm doing both. I am bringing slices together. I'm am also, trying to make sure that people know about the good pizza, are partaking in some good pizza. Alex:         Do you ever take two slices of pizza, and hold one on each hand, and say, “I now pronounce you”, and then slapped them together and say, “Calzone!” [chuckles] Pete:         No no, I wouldn't do that. That's sacrilege. Alex:         Got you… Back to the Transformer book, the main thing that I was thinking about the entire issue, do Transformers kiss? And when they kiss does it sound terrible? Like because they're two like… Justin:       Metal on metal. Alex:         Yeah, like two cars smashing into each other. Pete:         Yeah, but it doesn't sound bad to them. Alex:         Right, but would it sound bad to us humans? Pete:         Yes. Yeah, sure. Justin:       Like when cars kiss, we call it an accident. [chuckle] Pete:         Yeah, it's loud. Alex:         That's true. Last book we're talking about Excellence #9 from Image Comics created and written by Brandon Thomas, created in art by Khary Randolph. I know we have talked about every issue of this book. But every issue of this book is absolutely insane. Pete:         Phenomenal. Alex:         Oh my god, so good. Justin:       So, good. Alex:         This issue we have our main character who's been trying to start a magic revolution. Travels to a library to gather information, and finds out he is way out of his depth.  He is doing this way to soon, but now it is too late because he has already started the revolution. God, I love how direct every issue is in terms of the story it's telling. [00:45:03] And also, of course, Khary Randolph's art is out of control. Justin:       Yeah. Pete:         It's bananas. The character designs are fantastic. It's got like an old-school hip hop vibe to it. It's glorious. The panel work is… This is just such a fun book. Justin:       Yeah. This book… We talk about it so much, please check this book out it is… I'm trying to think of… Because the art isn't like reminiscent of a particular other style, it just encapsulates so much of just great comic book art from very still, emotional panels to super dynamic action panels. It's just a real textbook book on great comic book art, as on the writing and art side. Alex:         There's a thing that happens… I will now spoil something that happens in the issue, but as he comes into the library, he sees a bunch of grannies who were looking at him, and he's like, “That's weird they never looked at me before.” When he messes up, they all pop up and they're like, “Oh, that's it. You fucked up. We're taking you down son.” And there's a panel where there's just all three of them floating in the air about to attack him that I think I shouted, “Oh, shit!”, out loud when I was reading it. [chuckle] It's great. The action in this book is great. It's so tense. It's so creative. Definitely picking up. And that's it for The Stack. If you like to support us, Patreon.com/comicbookclub. Also, we do a live show every Tuesday to Crowdcast and YouTube. Come, hangout, and chat about comic books with us… iTunes, Android, Spotify, Stitcher or the app of your choice, to subscribe and listen to the show. ComicBookClubLive.com for this podcast or at Comic Book Live on Twitter. Come chat with us. And that's it. We'll see you next time at the Virtual Comic Book Shop. Pete:         I now pronounce you, pepperoni and mushrooms. [chuckles] It's a good combo. [00:47:02] The post The Stack: Seven Secrets, Dark Nights Death Metal And More appeared first on Comic Book Club. Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/comicbookclub See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Yeah… It's pretty easy to imagine the big dogs in entertainment handling the Quarantine. Between the house big enough to get lost in, stuffed with every form of modern entertainment you can find and enough money to order more? You gotta figure the roughest part of staying home would be living without the maid to clean up behind your bored butt. But what about the indie artists? The guys who don't have millions of dollars to live off of and millions of fans to entertain them, how are they making use of all these extra indoor days? Well if they're anything like NYC's #RickyHavana, they're plotting and scheming on when outside opens up. Major deal or stay indie? Kids or stay single? Solo or go after a big collab? And if so, with who? Good thing we caught him in all his household glory as @MrMecc & @K_Lavenne covered all of the above on the #MMMKPodcast, now the #MMMKRadioShow on @iheartradio via @officialfuburadio!! #HipHop #Music #MC #Meccahnism #workout #rap #BodyBawse #IHeartRadio #Corona #Covid19 #Quarentine #Indie #ToryLanez #Producer #explorepage #lyrics #Podcast #Radio #Advice #Pic #Interview #Dreads #Ink #Dreadlocks #Inked #Tattoo

Yeah… It's pretty easy to imagine the big dogs in entertainment handling the Quarantine. Between the house big enough to get lost in, stuffed with every form of modern entertainment you can find and enough money to order more? You gotta figure the roughest part of staying home would be living without the maid to clean up behind your bored butt. But what about the indie artists? The guys who don't have millions of dollars to live off of and millions of fans to entertain them, how are they making use of all these extra indoor days? Well if they're anything like NYC's #RickyHavana, they're plotting and scheming on when outside opens up. Major deal or stay indie? Kids or stay single? Solo or go after a big collab? And if so, with who? Good thing we caught him in all his household glory as @MrMecc & @K_Lavenne covered all of the above on the #MMMKPodcast, now the #MMMKRadioShow on @iheartradio via @officialfuburadio!!

Episode 008 - Just A Little Patience, Yeah...Yeah It's has been amazing to watch people in real estate get along during this Covid thingamajig. Some are panicking. But most are not. People are getting along. Because we have clients that we still need to serve. Those that want to buy and sell a home. And we need to all figure out how to do that in the current conditions. Mostly...it just takes a little bit of empathy and patience. Jay LiebermanLieberman Realty Group, Inc.Keller Williams Realty World ClassDRE#01874717jay@LiebermanRealtyGroup.com

In today’s episode I'm sharing five of my favorite tools, what they do, and why you should care.If you wanted to build a house, you would want to have great tools. Ever try to cut a 2x4 with your hands? Or drive a nail in with a rock? Yeah… It’s doesn’t work so well.Same goes for our daily lives. We need to outfit ourselves with GREAT tools if we want to make the most of this experience called life.Today I share my favorite tools and what they do best. So let’s get started…

Hey Folks Welcome back and THANK YOU for checking out the show. This weeks guest is Ryan Knight from the Knights of the squared circle radio show. it was an absolute blast talking with Ryan about wrestling, life in general, recording shows and a little about the paranormal too. Yeah It went sideways a few times but it was a great time chatting. Hopefully get to do this again real soon. If you need to get a hold of me if you would like to discuss the show please reach out on any of the social media spots or feel free to email me at justinmguilmette@gmail.com Talk to you next time  

The dudes banter about early 90’s geopolitics, climate change denial conspiracy theorists, dinner parties and a video […] The post Yeah It’s Fun But…/Nintendo Power #3 appeared first on NYEH Entertainment.

Introduction... On this week's episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry we have Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough, better known as America's Favorite Family Physician to bless the podcast with some wisdom and knowledge. As we take in another month of April we recognize National Minority Health Month and I figured who better to discuss the importance of focusing on minority care & physicians than Dr. Shanicka. As the medical director for BlackDoctor.org, she works tirelessly to connect culturally competent physicians to patients and vice versa. Dr. Shanicka recognized the need to act on this void of information between the willing parties and continues to be essential in bridging the gap. Her love to support those in need aren't just centered here in the United States as you will get to here about her many passport stamps over the years. Listen to the end as she discusses her love for growth & guidance and how it helped propel her to write not just one or two books but twelve in a year. This is definitely and episode that you will enjoy. Listen on Apple Podcast, Google Play, Stitcher, Soundcloud, iHeartRadio, Spotify Sponsors: Lunch and Learn Community Online Store (code Empower10) Pierre Medical Consulting (If you are looking to expand your social reach and make your process automated then Pierre Medical Consulting is for you) Links/Resources: drshanicka.com www.herdailyjournal.com Facebook - @drshanicka and @drshanickaauthor Instagram @drshanicka Twitter @drshanicka BlackDoctor.org Social Links: Join the lunch and learn community - https://www.drpierresblog.com/joinlunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/lunchlearnpod Follow the podcast on twitter - http://www.twitter.com/lunchlearnpod - use the hashtag #LunchLearnPod if you have any questions, comments or requests for the podcast For More Episodes of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry Podcasts https://www.drpierresblog.com/lunchlearnpodcast/ If you are looking to help the show out Leave a Five Star Review on Apple Podcast because your ratings and reviews are what is going to make this show so much better Share a screenshot of the podcast episode on all of your favorite social media outlets & tag me or add the hashtag.#lunchlearnpod   Episode 104 - Bridging-the-Gap- Full TranscriptDownload [showhide type="post" more_text="Episode 104 Transcript..." less_text="Show less..."] Introduction: Dr. Berry And welcome to another episode of the Lunch and Learn with Dr. Berry. I’m your host, Dr. Berry Pierre, your favorite Board Certified Internist. Founder of Dr. Berry.com as well as Pierre Medical Consulting. Helping you empower yourself with better health with the number one podcast, where patient advocacy helping you empower yourself with better health. This week we have an amazing guest. A good friend of mine, Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough who is going to educate us on how we bridge the gap. We get to talk about National Minority Health Month. We get to talk about a lot of her endeavors. Because she's a phenomenal woman who just does absolutely amazing things and is probably busier than me, right? And I know I know a lot of people say I'm busy. With this one, she is a busy one. Like this kind of doors and my works, like she makes me work a little harder when I see the amount of work that she gets done. So quick bio. I know you guys need that credibility boost so you know like hey, make sure Dr. Berry is just talking to anybody. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough a.k.a. America's favorite family medicine doctor. Graduated from the University of Illinois College of Medicine in 2009. She completed her family medicine residency program at Advocate Christ Medical Center in 2012. Since then she has gained invaluable experience as a board-certified family physician. She has had the privilege of owning and operating a private medical practice. She is a bestselling author with four titles including As the Wind Blows Vol. 1 and 2. As well as her Daily Journal Series where she emboldens women to take one step closer to Christ and a longtime physician entrepreneur where she teaches at a physician and physicians in training how to start her medical practice. Currently, Dr. Shanicka is the Medical Director of Black Doctor.org and works as a wound care specialist in Sacramento where she lives with her husband Pastor Darrell Scarbrough and their three rambunctious dogs. Dr. Shanicka mission is to be transparent about her life in hopes and share her testimonies will help bring others closer to God. Haven't been the featured MC of the Diva M.D. radio show on urban broadcast media as well as a variety of other platforms on television social media. She speaks in various educational inspirational settings travels internationally including Haiti and many countries in Africa to extend her knowledge skills and expertise around the globe and you do and you'll have the links to her website and her daily general series that I think you guys all need to pick up because it's absolutely amazing. And like I said you know this is amazing person right. And again weekly, we talk a lot about her work with Black Doctor.org or we talk a lot about her work with the international mission trips as she does. So you just got to sit tight and be ready for another great episode but remember before you do that make sure you hit that subscribe button. Make sure you share this with a friend of yours. Tell them to hit the subscribe button and leave 5-star review. Dr. Shanicka 5 star review. Let her know she did an amazing job and you guys have a great take. You're ready for an amazing episode. Episode Dr. Berry: All right, Lunch and Learn community. Again, you heard amazing intro from not only a person I respect in the health community especially when it talked about minority health and it talked about physician empowerment. But a friend of mine, Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough, who is, you know, really helped educate us on, you know, obviously when rational minority health needs. You know, what the roadblocks of being an author. You know, why, as she kinda, taken upon herself to get physician out there, own way. You know, put the pen and paper. So definitely excited about today show. And again, Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough, thank you for coming. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Berry. Dr. Berry: Again, again, Lunch and Learn community, I can't hide this person enough. Again, I think, things were going on almost 3 years now I think and it's (Yes, sir). Quite some time and as see, we both see each other grow. Its pace is been absolutely amazing and I'm the biggest geek fan. I watch a lot of my colleagues from afar. Do amazing things. So I knew Lunch and Learn community, that I needed to get her, you know, to educate us a little bit and talk about some things I think is important. Especially in this month that we're in now when we talk about National Minority Health Month. Again, first of all, before that, Dr. Shanika, please tell Lunch and Learn community a little bit about yourself and you know, they may not know, they may not read the bio about of. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Absolutely. Again, thank you, Dr. Berry, for having me on your podcast, Lunch and Learn. This is an amazing platform. I am a geek as well, looking from afar (laughing). And all of you guys do some amazing things and watching you all, do your amazing things is actually what motivated me and some of the positions that I have now, to be able to amplify that. So, super excited about that and we can talk about that and just a bit. And I am back, Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough, formerly Dr. Shanicka Williams. Scarbrough came two and a half years. No. Yeah. Two and a half years. Now, my husband is a pastor. We are originally held from Chicago. Then we moved all the way to Sacramento, California. Our work, he has called to pastor church. My church, Homboss church in Sacramento. So I'm super excited about what God is doing in the city of Sacramento itself and our church community. I am a Board Certified Family Medicine Physician. I went to the University of Illinois at Chicago College of Medicine (laughing), in hometown 2009. And did a residency in family medicine. I'm an advocate of Christ in 2012. Since then, I have a multitude of opportunities and things to do within the family medicine scope. That's really shaped to why become as a physician as well as some of the physicians that I currently have. I am currently the medical director of Black Doctor.org as of September of 2018. And I am a skilled wound care physician and that's a wound care specialist where I going to nurse and council. I take care patients who have wounds, all types of wounds, diabetic wounds, pressure ulcers, so any wounds that inspection, any wound that you can think of, I'm taking care of those, in the nursing homes. And over the past, since September, actually been able to prop of my lifestyle to fit the way I wanted to look. You know, as a physician. It's always a tough thing to do. (You're right about that). Yeah. (Laughing). That's always a tough thing to do but I think right now, I think I fit that sweet spot. So, yeah. I'm excited about what happens in medicine, what happens in the African-American community, as far as the physician, and the growth of physician in medicine, increasing the diversity in medicine. So all of that is important to me. Dr. Berry: Love it. So again, Lunch and Learn community until you see, some special. I usually, I guess. I got a lot of special friends and she's definitely one of them and you know, I thought of, depending on where you listen to his month of April, National Minority Health Month which obviously, I'm biased, right? Because a minority, as a physician, I’m keying to a lot of the different concerns that the, especially the African-American male faces on a daily basis when it comes to healthcare. Obviously, tell us, especially with the month going on as it is in your role at Black Doctor.org. What does national minority health month kinda mean to you? Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Yeah, absolutely. So, I've always had a passion for the African-American community, not just because I'm an African-American or I'm an African-American physician. But because of our inequality in health. I have a passion for any person or group of people that are marginalized, that is decent advantage, especially when it comes to healthcare because that's my profession. That is what I see the most. So, everything that I do is centered around career wise and education wise and getting the word out is centered around education, educating the minority population on health disparities, things that they need to know, to live a healthier life and that is ultimately how I became to be the medical director of BlackDoctor.org. So national minority health month is huge for me because I feel like, it is my duty (strong word). It is. It is my duty, not just in April, right? Not just in February, you know. It's my duty on a daily basis to educate and whatever that's look like. That's what I'm gonna do. Whatever capacity or rule that I'm in. That's what I'm gonna do. So I'm a first lady of the church. We have the first lady's health initiative where we are around the country. We have chapters around the country that focus on health in the African-American churches. So I didn't want just to be a pastor's wife. I didn't want just to be a pastor's wife right? I used my platform to educate and that it's all about. So National Minority Health Month has just been an exemplification of what my goal is to do on a daily basis, every day of the year. Dr. Berry: And it's so important, right? Lunch and Learn community. We talked about various diseases here in a podcast, where diabetes, heart diseases, and immortality and birth. You've heard them (Absolutely). And the minority seems to be more adversely affected by it, right? So it's definitely something that drives a lot of us to really want to do more because we need to do more, right? It's a duty. A lot of us really feel like it is our duty to do more because if we don't if we continue to trend, right? It's not gonna be good. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: It's detrimental to our community. Absolutely. Dr. Berry: I like. Actually, it's a first lady, what is that? Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: So a first lady is just a pastor's wife. (Right). If you are a pastor's wife, your pastor having a church, you are considered especially in the African-American community to be the first lady of that church. And if you can even see me but I'm putting up air clothes, as I'm talking. So you know, there are a lot of people like you know, that take that rule very seriously and you know, unfortunately, but fortunately, people, they follow you, like that. Because you have that rule. So I don't want to be, miss in my responsibilities and that's what God is calling me to do. Any opportunity, it's not just a title to me. Any opportunity that I have, I gonna push God's agenda, all the time, every time. (Love it). And He has a passion for the marginalized. Dr. Berry: Speaking of roles, as a medical director, again, I've always been familiar about Black Doctor.org has been, one of those websites, even as a medical student, as a student, oh ok, this is speaking to me, right? And I'm always, always keen to stuff that, kinda speech directly to me. SO that, I actually love the way website. Obviously, you have been the director. What's the rule kinda and tell them what some say that you know what, I can do this? Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: I'm always pushing whether act to do this. That is always the question of my life, am I qualify for this? Am I doing just fine? But, so, actually, Black Doctor.org, I became aware of them because they are Chicago-based company. Maybe a company. And I've always loved looking at their articles, receiving their newsletter, all of those things. So kinda develop he relationship with the CEO, over the course of many years. I did a few educational Facebook live for them while I'm living in Chicago and even came back. And you know, once I move, but because of that relationship, the rapport that I built with the CEO, I was able to relate to him some of my passions, some of my desires and some of my frustrations, about the way medicine was going and share with him some of the jobs I was working in frustrated me. And you know he's a business mind and ok, let’s create some solutions. All right! Let's do it. Officially, as of September of 2018, I became their very first medical director Black Doctor.org and my role is essentially is to create programs and services that ultimately connect positions with the patient. And one of my ideas was what we just launched last month. Web video connects directory. Is a directory, culturally sensitive positions. So that patients can go on our site. Our site already has over a hundred thousand kids a day where patients are looking for doctors. So we have to find a doctor feature. Now, we are building our list of African-American physicians that are culturally sensitive physicians. You don't have to be African-American to be a part of our directory, but it does mean that you have a passion for decreasing the health disparities in the African- American community. So yeah, so we're building that directory right now as we speak and positions across the nation are joining and we are hearing testimonials of a patient coming to the doctor office saying I found you on Black Doctor.org and I trust you. That in itself, ok look, we are on the right track. We are growing, we supposed to do. In the ultimate goal is to really bridge that gap and help disparities present patients with physicians that they trust so that they can get good access to care, that's the bottom line. That's our ultimate goal in any of the products and services that we create. Dr. Berry: Now was especially that first business of just connecting patients to physicians. Was that something that a lot of the viewers and people come to a website that ask for, hey, how do I found one in Detroit? How do I found one where I living? Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Absolutely, we would see that questions all of the time. Like our facebook page, in our customer support, asking where can they find physicians that look like them or as culturally sensitive. You would also see it. Even if some of our doctor's work. People don't know that we have a small community or even a large community of doctors where we talk to each other across the nation and we would get the question of, hey looking for African-American doctor in Philly, that you now, see OBG. We would have those conversations among ourselves because we want to refer our patients to people that we trust. So it was twofold, you know. Not only with the consumers asking but also the doctor. I wanna, need a doctor that I wanna send my patient too for, especially to care or happy is. I' m so, we are definitely trying to fill that void and make that easier for people to connect. Dr. Berry: And Lunch and Learn community, I wanna really stress on, I think we talked about this in the past. It's already been shown that if you're doctor shares similar characteristic like you, it kinda looks like you, you are one more likely to follow the direction, you're more likely to take the medication was supposed to and see them when actually supposed to. It adds to the cycle of becoming healthy and getting healthier. When you actually follow the direction of the doctor. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Absolutely, absolutely. Dr. Berry: I remember, there was a doctor, I forget, where the person I suppose to be while back where the family didn't speak in English, English were not there primary language and the physician actually upset that the person can't speak in English. Speaking of a non-culturally competent physician. Like that's where a lot of people run into. They run a lot of physicians who don't respect their culture, don't look like them and can't relate to them and this is no way they can possibly treat them to best of ability. So I'm definitely excited about this, the connection. That’s really it is. I know a lot of time when people talk about these disparities. They always say they would just go to, they can't really find them. It's not that they don't want to go to OB, they really don't want to go to PH, and they really can't. They don't know where they're at. (Exactly). Not a twofold part because again actually, me and Dr. Shanicka talked about all time, a lot of us physician, we don't do that a bit job, let folks over here, right? If you've heard Dr. Shanicka, she let you know she's in the building, when she's here. There is no question about it. But a lot of us, unfortunately, what we did during medical school, during our residency, we get to a place, we don't tell people, hey this is why you need to come to me. Definitely thankful for, Black DOctor.org just can able to say hey we gonna do the legwork for you. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Yeah. And we're also, our goal is to be able to offer cultural sensitive training as well. So hospitals and organizations can offer webinars or seminars or some type of didactic so that they are able actually to get culturally sensitive training, right. For all of the physicians. You know, we need it. I'm not just saying that just African-American. Listen. If I have Chinese patients or I have Korean patients, or I have Muslim patients, I wanna know culturally acceptable, right? (That's so true.) We can all use it, you know. That the United States is supposed to be united. (Talk about it). Laughing. Just say it. Dr. Berry: Speaking of United, again I want to, you know, Dr. Shanicka business right, before. For those again, if this is the first time you’ve heard of her. She does now only amazing work here in the United States, but she, let her said, her passport is full. She might already on the second book. I don't know even know. Right? She probably in the second book. Because she is, not only the Christian to the world of health care right? In the United States and try to get us together. But she does outside the country. Can you tell Lunch and Learn community, just a little about your international work, right? What's influenced you? Again I'm in awe in some of the stuff that you do. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Laughing. Let me just tell you. The guy blesses my feet. He's definitely blessed my feet. In the past year and a half, I wanna say. I have been to Africa five times. In Haiti in May, it would be at least three or four times. I try to lost count. But I go again, I go again in May. I was, actually really blessed to come across a young lady Sheryl Posla, a missionary for Christ, whose vision and the mission was so completely in line with everything that I stand for. That I have not on a mission trip without her and her team yet. So every trip that she's goes on that I'm able to go on. I just go. I just go. We've been in too many parts of Africa. We've been to South Africa with our church as well. We've been to South Africa, West Africa. You know, a lot of different parts. Burkina Faso, Chad, Cameron, like Kenya, it has been, which the other one, I trying to, I see it in my head and I can't, oh Ivory Coast. Dr. Berry: If you like Lunch and Learn, I tell you, you thought I'm playing if I said she's in the second book. I think you know, the first book is like, put away somewhere. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: No. Claim it, claim it. It's not yet but claims it. I'll take it. Yeah. So you know, her vision. I'm a Christian. I'm a follower of Christ. What we do is we spread the Word. Not only, will a lot of these countries not let you in. You know just to talk about Christ. Period. So she has few bringing medical care and treatment to countries all over the world and just so happen over the past two and a half, it's been, Africa. But she goes wherever she leads her. And you know also, try to save souls. We have awesome times. We were usually gone for 10 days. We usually go three or four times a year. It has been you know, be most. I don't even know how to describe it. Amazing experience. If any physicians, whether you are a Christian or Muslim. Whatever you know, whatever you are, that holds no bearing for what God is calling you to do. But if you are a physician and have not done a mission trip. It puts the United States healthcare system on the front line. Ok. When you see so many people that do not have access to care and the appreciation that they have for members to come and bring them medical care, to bring them to health education, to try to treat their diseases. I've seen miracles happened. I've seen patients who were ostracized by their country or by their tribe because of medical condition that they have that easily fixable, right? But they didn't have access to care. Just the stigma, you know, laid upon them. Just the feeling of gratitude to be able to assist them and to help them, to love on them. To come across the country for them. It just, it has been an amazing ride. If you are a physician and you have not done medical mission trips, you know, please, please, please. Get with the organization and go. Dr. Berry: Try to have Dr. Shanicka. (Get with me). And I think, you said a great point because I remember going to, I believe it is Jamaica and the act of gratitude. Like they were so happy that I was just saying hey, this is what you should take for blood pressure. Something that we take for granted. I'll be honest, we take for granted over it sometimes right? Just abilities, oh just take this medication, just do this here. And when you go to the country that you know. Yes, we have some resource unavailability here in the United States. Like it doesn't even compare, right? Doesn't even compare when you go to these countries and just as you see the look of their face and just happy to talk to them. Because they are happy because they know the work that you have do just to come to their country. You know what, thank you. I've never heard so many thank you when I did a medical trip because they were just so thankful that I was just there to take blood pressure and to do vitals. It's just an amazing thing, with that sentiment. So you have heard basically what does mean. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: I am, oh my gosh. Yes. As many times as financially possible that I can go, absolutely I am all over. And when I say it put the US healthcare system in the front line. I hear some of these surgeons that are going out and operating, for instance, like cataract surgery, there's a doctor out in Kenya who does cataract surgeries and it costs the patient maybe $20. Now $20 to them is a lot of money, you know, and they have to gather their resources and they have to do the things they have to do to get that $20 but what can you get? You can't get to get Starbucks by yourself and get free and a cup of coffee and a Donut, $20 you understand what I'm saying? That it costs, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars putting people in debt for surgeries that could be, you know, costs pennies on the dollar. So it, you know, it frustrates me the way our health, the direction our healthcare is turning to. It's really frustrating. And not only that and that's a whole another soapbox to get into. Dr. Berry: Well probably, we probably have to do a separate episode. Where do we upset about with them? Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Because you know, I can go in and I can go in all day long, (Yes.) on our healthcare system. Then I won't do it on this podcast Dr. Berry. Dr. Berry: No, that's a future one, that's a future one. Lunch and Learn community, she already says she'll come back for a second one so we don't, we gonna talk about the ills of our healthcare system. Just to get a look on our side. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Yeah, absolutely. I'm all for it. I'm all for it. We got to make a change. Right? If we don't talk about it, we can't do anything about it. Dr. Berry: I agree. It is speaking to talk about it. One thing that what I love about you as you love the document, right? One thing is people are gonna know what you're doing because you're going to let people know what you're doing. Right? Can you talk about just how important it is to really document one story and you know, get their truth out there? Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Absolutely. So I don't do it just so people can know what I'm doing. I'd do it because I want people's lives to be transformed. If I, if I could be honest with you, I’d transparent with you if I’d never posted again on a social media site. But if you were to look back from my post from 2010 where I was just posting to be posted versus you know, the posts that you see now, all of my posts have some transformative message. Then I want you to get that, you know, if you are not born to get it anywhere else, you scroll past my page and at least gave it for me. You know, sometimes people say that your life is, you know, maybe the only Bible people read, you know. So, and I want to be a testament. I want to be a testament to God's goodness. I want to be a testament of if it mobilizes you to do good for someone else. Awesome, I've done my job. So that's, that is the intent behind my content of sharing with people. Is, I really want people's lives to be transformed. Whether their health, whether it's spirituality, whether you know, whatever the case may be. I want you to be transformed. Dr. Berry: And speaking of that, can we, can we just, can we talk about the, your, your, your journal series just to bring the Lunch and Learn community, just kind of talking about it again. And that's where I really want to really, really dive deep. And because I think one thing about you that I love is that your word is so consistent. It's been consistent for three plus years. Through ups, through downs. It's, it's just been this like, I want you, and depending on who you are, whatever the subject is, I just want you to do better. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Yeah, no, that's that. That's it right there. You said it in a nutshell. That's how the Her Daily series, Her Daily Journal series was born. Um, I was literally in the car with my husband driving to you know, San Francisco or Oakland. Driving somewhere is fun . And God spoke to me and I said I needed to write a journal a month for the next year. And you know, see how that transform people's lives. And what it is, is every for the month or for the year of 2018. The beginning, the end of 2017 to almost the end of 2018, I literally live in front of everyone watching. Wrote 12 books in 12 months and each one detailing some biblical principle. That you know, that and it's mostly geared towards women. That they can use to help them in their everyday lives. And that was one of the most difficult but amazing journeys I've ever taken in my life. To be able to hear God speak one thing and then see Him bring it to finish 12 months later. And the close of the journals was at the death of my mom right after the death of my mom. So that final journal was, was dedicated to her. And actually, her death actually brought everything full circle for me and brought everything into perspective for me. And, and it just made me just love God more. So that was an amazing journal, that journal, you know, those journals are out and they can be used every, every month for the rest of your life. Yeah. I have people that are going through the journals for the second time. We're now doing a hard daily journal live online book club for women. So on the last day of each month, we go over the journal. That you know, what was going on for that month. For April, we're going up a prayer daily chats with God, how much talks about how to pray prevalently and what that means, what does it mean to pray. So yeah, it's, it's been exciting. I've been, you know, I get so many messages about, you know, women's lives are being transformed by these journals and it's just a blessing. I didn't write one of them. Okay. I didn't write one of them. It was the Holy Spirit that led me the entire way. I thought I had a list of topics I was going to cover and God was like, (I got this, I got this) Laughing. I got this. Exactly. And you can actually see as I'm going through them again, you can actually see my progression as I get close to Christ. And that's, that's the model. You know that these journals helped embolden women to take one step closer to Christ. And you can literally if you did journal by journal starting from December. December, what's the first one you can see my journal, my journey of growth. And that's what epitomizes for me is that I want women to grow as they continue to go through each of the journals. Dr. Berry: I love it. And, and, and it's so, so interesting, especially because again, we, we've known each other for a while. So, ah, you know, we used to watch, I used to watch and take care of your mom and I could just see the love that was there. I could see, you know, that I can see regardless of what was going on, you are there to brighten up her day. And she brightens up. And again, Lunch and Learn community, you know, we're fear at the logo, so leave it I guess to say we've actually been rocking the, again for a good time, but you know, pretty close. I definitely am happy for, for everything that's been going on, but especially the accumulation of the journal series. You know that. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: I appreciate that. Thank you for your support. You've always been very, very supportive and I'm very appreciative of that. Absolutely. Dr. Berry: So, so you've, you've taken, you've taken what God's kind of put your heart into your mind, right? And put it on paper. But then when I noticed, right, again, again, cause I get it, I'm watching from afar. You did channel that energy to get other people to do the same. What, what was, what was that motivation and how did, like, because again, you dropped 12 books, I figured you're like, Oh wow, (laughing). Oh, I'm bringing you along with me. (Yeah) It gets again, right? Because again, this the subject, you, the, you, the word you is always objective, right? But whoever that you is, I'm going to bring you along with me and I want you to tell your story. Like what was that thought process? And, and again, as I said, I'm always surprised at the stuff you do. So I just very you, regardless of whatever you want to do, you just go ahead and do it. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Hey, you know what? That's the whole point is to be obedient, right? If God gives you something, you want to be obedient in what He tells you to do. And that's what I've been and you know, really focusing on over the past couple of years is number one, being able to hear him clearly and then two, you know, acting on what he tells me to do. I don't want to just be a consumer, you know, I want to be able to give, you know, give what you told me to do and do it because it's not about me. It's about the fruit. It's about the people that are being blessed by it and the lives that are being changed by it. And that's basically the concept. Um, and I believe you're speaking of as the wind blows series. Yes. Yeah. So those are, those are two analogies that I've done and I'll probably continue those, but everybody has a story. Everybody has a testimony. Everybody has something that they have gone through that they have overcome. And you know, I want it to be able to share that with people. I want you to hear other people's struggles and let them know that you are an overcomer, that you can overcome this, that just because you're in the situation that you're in right now, it doesn't mean that number one, God doesn't love you. And number two, that he's not going to bring you out of it. You just got to trust him. So to be able to see people tell their testimonies and even watching them, watching them write it and the transformations that they had reliving it as they put their pens and paper and you know, the cleansing that came from releasing their stories. Some of these people, they never shared their stories with anyone before in life. So to be able to open up their heart on, on pen and paper and to share with the world is huge for them. And to see the feedback given to them because they were so transparent and because they were so open and willing to share their story of redemption. I think that's what it's all about. You know? How, how did God transform you? How did, how did he shift? How did he change you? You know what? What steps did you take to become, you know, who you are now? How did you overcome the abuse? How did you overcome the addiction? How did you overcome depression? Right? So those are, those are all stories that need to be told. Um, and I think if more people open up their mouths right, then more people will be transformed. Dr. Berry: Now, was it difficult to get them to put that on the paper to get them to open their mouth of that was, that was where they, in a way, it was there some issue, (No). That we caused them to say like, I've been, I didn't want to do it before. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Well, as some, sometimes some people didn't actually know that that's what they were supposed to do until they saw the calling. Does that make sense? (Yeah). So they were like, oh wait, I do have a story. Oh, oh wait, I did survive the abuse. He tried to kill me and I did survive that. Maybe I’m rape. Right? For some people, it was a revelation. Other people, this was the first step to the full book that they needed to, right? So one of them, my authors wrote just a, uh, a snippet of her story and we just finished her book. Lishel Evans, Breakthrough. We just finished her, but she completed her whole book. So it was a stepping stone and something that gave her the courage to say, listen, I want to tell more of my story and I want, I want people to hear it so that they can be transformed. Dr. Berry: Beautiful. Like I say it again. Let me, like we alluded earlier, Lunch and Learn community. When you know, when you have special guests like Dr. Shanicka and you can just kind of see the different facets of her life and her work. But you can always see at the end, right? It's always about, you know, becoming a better you. When we talk about national minority when we're talking about a National Minority Health Month. But how can we help our minority community to become better again? Right? When we talk about international work, like how can someone become better, right? So that's a theme that a, is such a sight to see. And sometimes I, and I, I like to, I always, I always like to get on my friend, right? Because a lot of times we're doing so much great work that we don't really have the time. Right. So like the lay it all out say, Oh wow, look at all the stuff I'm doing it right. So this is why I started to like to brag on because they, cause they won't brag on the cell. That too humble. Fortunately for me, right? Humility sometimes still working on it. Right. So like I can recognize like when I'm doing something and I could recognize when they're doing so again, that's why, you know, I said yeah she, we, she gotta be on the show because we got and we just got to talk about her and you know how she can help us become better us. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Oh, that's amazing. Thank you. Dr. Berry: Before I let you go, because I know I've been long talking to you. Right? I want, you know, just, you know, just some, some quick caveats like how is, I probably already said it right when I, how is what you're doing, you know, not only, you know, empowering other women really to the better, better excels and better control of their health and everything else. But like just like the world, how are you, how are you doing that? Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Oh boy. But no. That's, you know, to sum it all up, whenever you see me do, you may be in a different position, you know, next week or you might see me in a different country next month. Just know that everything that I do has a purpose. I'm still working on me. I'm still, you know, that still has some things in me that I, that needs to be ironed out and, and kicked out and punch that. (Laughing).It tells something. But I'd like to share that journey because the transparency on that journey, whether it's, you know, you know I have a post on my Vimeo right now that yeah, I gained, I gained 20 pounds. I like to be transparent and my journey to show that you know, number one I'm human. Number two, you are human, you know, and if you know God is still working on me, he's still working on you, (yes) right? So health-wise, mentally, physically, spiritually, however, I can get you to a place where you are healthier, you are smarter, you are spiritually field, and you, you know, you are everything to make your home, then that's what I'm going to do. I come to bear fruit. That’s it. Dr. Berry: Love it. We appreciate it. Where can others, you know, find you, right? Where can others find you, whether it be at, like a or where the media international or list them links out cause you know, they're gonna want, they're gonna want to read the books. They're going to want to read a series. Like, tell them. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Yeah. Absolutely. So everything can be found at www.shanicka.com. That is, um, that'd be www.shanicka.com. You can find some free gifts for health. You know, a free shopping cart lists that you can take to the grocery store to help you shop for better foods. And you'll also find my books. You'll also find how to join the Her Daily Journal. If you want to go directly to the book club, you just go to www.herdailyjournal.com and it has us, you can donate to mission partners for Christ, you know so that we can continue our medical missions. It has everything on that one site and finds out where, you know, all of my social media handles, everything is on that site. Oh d, oh wait! I used to do a radio show, The Diva MD show. (Laughing). Dr. Berry: Again. Honestly, regardless if she says she used to do blank. I'm a believer. Okay. There are no reasons. Like she's already shown me three years of work to say that she probably could do whatever, you know we put in front of her so it's a believer. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: That was a health show. So you know, if you want to go back into the archives and listen to some old health shows, we can do that as well. Dr. Berry: Perfect. And again, Lunch and Learn community, if you're driving, you know, at work, take a shower, whatever. All of these links will be in the show notes. Because again, you definitely, this is definitely a person. If you can only follow one person on a social media platform, this is definitely a person I think you should choose you guys. Absolutely amazing. Again, Dr. Shanicka thank you for coming to the Lunch and Learn community and you know, really blessing us, educating us, putting our thoughts into motion of how we can be better us. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: I appreciate you Dr. Berry for having me. This is an amazing opportunity and all of the work that you're doing is, is phenomenal. You know, I follow the blog, I follow, I get all of your emails. Yes, and the podcast. Dr. Berry: I apologize for this. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: But that great information, they'll make sure that you guys are subscribing to this podcast because you know we are movers and shakers and medicine so we want to make sure that you guys are aware and hanging out with Dr. Berry. Dr. Berry for Lunch and Learn. Dr. Berry: Yes, thank you. And again, Lunch and Learn community. See you guys next week. You have a blessed week. Dr. Shanicka Scarbrough: Take care. [/showhide] Download the MP3 Audio file, listen to the episode however you like.

更多英语知识，请关注微信公众号: VOA英语每日一听Todd: So, Rina, you were saying Lebanon, or Beirut, has really good night clubs. (Mm-hm) Ah, what's a really cool night club in Beirut?Rina: My favorite night club was rated 5th in Maxim magazine, and it's called B. O. 18, and what it used to be was a Palestinian burial ground and,Todd: Wait a minute! (Yeah) It, there's no longer dead people there?Rina: No, no, no. It used to be. (OK) Just during the civil war, cause there was a 17 year war, and what it is, you walk up, you don't see anything, it's just a big open space, but you see these, like, almost like subway stairs going down, and you go down these stairs and the theme inside this place is death, and it's like a big coffin, so you have red velvet walls and all the tables are little coffins with Palestinian soldier pictures on it and single rows and it's just a really good, it's a really neat club. And I went to a lot of theme clubs, too, I went to one that's called The Music Hall and it's like just, like a big theater, it was just amazing.Todd: So, what's The Music Hall like?Rina: Um, well they had that night I went, they had five different groups: One American group, one Spanish, one Lebanese, and they all just, it's like a theater, like scene one, scene two, and each scene would be a different music, genre like, you know.Todd: That's pretty cool.Rina: Yeah, it was cool.Todd: So, at these night clubs, how do people dress? What's the fashion?Rina: Um, Lebanese girls, and people that were like Lebanese girls, they're very trend conscious. Oh, yeah. Like if it's in a magazine, they're wearing it type thing. They look down on anybody, that doesn't.Todd: Ah, so.Rina: Yeah, and it's all like, done up like they went to the salon that day to go out sort of thing.Todd: Wow! (Yeah) So we're talking, like the skimpy dressed that they have?Rina: Everything. Oh, yeah.Todd: Your kidding. What do the guys dress like?Rina: Ah, the guys are, they dress prettier than some of the girls.Todd: No kidding.Rina: Yeah, the guys dress really well, but very, just as I said, very trend conscious. Everybody's very image, image conscious. It's really a lot like Japan in that way.Todd: Mm, oh cool. Thanks.

Imagine Dragons, Demons Parade of Lights, The Island Tove Lo, True Disaster MGMT, Little Dark Age Stay (Feat Andy Bell), Pinkman Alex Clare, Up All Night The Raconteurs, Consoler Of The Lonely Twin Atantic, No Sleep Best Coast, Heaven Sent Kassasin Street, Yeah It’s On Portugal. The Man (Feat Mary Elizabeth Winstead & Zoe Manville), Noise Pollution Ten Fé, Make Me Better Gorillaz ( Feat Mos Def & Bobby Womack), Stylo The Wombats, Emoticons Kasabian, Underdog Siouxsie and the Banshees, Dear Prudence Nat Simons, People The Strypes, Get Into It Hot Hot Heat, Kid Who Stays In The Picture The Strokes, Someday

On this special episode we do a tribute to ... okay well kind of tribute ... more like the title to "Yeah It's that Bad After Dark" but our take is a Would u Rather. hope you enjoy

Happy New Year! On the episode we celebrate our Year Show! and we feel here at the Miscellaneous Podcast we should do it up "Yeah It's that Bad" style. One of the major podcasts that influenced me to become a podcaster. So in "Yeah its that Bad" fashion we did Netflix's movie Bright. Hope you enjoy!

Aingeal Rose & Ahonu went to the top of Pilot Butte in Bend, Oregon to view the sunset. Little did they know that it would spawn two episodes of The Honest-to-God Series. This is Part 2. While watching the sunset, they discussed everything from ascension to death and dying. It all arose from weeks and weeks of exploring why living is such an effort, why we must eat in order to live, why we consume other lifeforms, and why we die. There is a transcript below of Part 2 of our discussion entitled, "Sunset on Pilot Butte". You are very welcome. I am Ahonu and with me is my lovely Aingeal Rose, and today we have decided to come back to Pilot Butte which is in the center, well it's not in the center, but it's within the city limits of Bend in Central Oregon, and surrounded by a circle of volcanoes. And we chose this spot because last week, we had a really evocative discussion about life and death, and why we're here, and the physical body, and illness, and sickness, and all of that kind of thing. And we wanted to explore it because we got a lot of feedback from it where people were willing us, encouraging us, to explore it more because there's so much to it. And we tried to cover it all in a space of, like 20-25 minutes (which is a lot to ask actually) so, we're gonna try and do the same thing again now. But today, we're gonna focus on the aspect of the amount of energy that it takes us to actually be here. And what I mean by that is, moving even from just the physical aspect, even if you were to go back to the conception of a child, you know, the amount of energy that it takes for a woman to carry a child and then deliver the child, and then for the baby itself to grow, and it's using the energy of food which supposedly has come from the Sun that through photosynthesis, you know, it's using that energy and converting it into the growth of the physical body. And then, as we grow into adulthood we're doing the same thing. We're using external energy to fuel the body. Which proves it isn't real. Well, let's get into it Aingeal Rose, yeah, because it's a very interesting concept, actually, that we believe we're in. So, talk to us about that. What, why... you did mention at the close of last week's session where it takes a lot of energy for us to be here. So, if we are in a spirit body would we be using that kind of energy at all? Well, no, because if you were aware that you were a spirit body (and this again is where we have to make the distinction. (Right). You can have a physical form, you can have an appearance of a physical body, with also realizing that it isn't really solid. That it's an energy body, okay. Here's a good ... wait here's a good example. Do you remember when we had Penny Kelly on? Yeah. A couple... in times past. Yes. And Penny, who was somebody who had a full Kundalini Awakening, and she was talking about how now she can be in two places at once. She can get out of her body. She can travel to how many levels of the dream state (yes) without her body, and she was telling the story about how she had some relatives at her home one time, and she was still in bed, and she heard them talking down in the kitchen and she was still out of her body, so being out of her body she floated down and she kind of hid in the cupboard so she could hear what they were all talking about. She was watching them. She was watching them, yeah, in her spirit body. And then she lingered there a while, and all of a sudden she realized that her physical body was starting to rematerialize. And they might see her if she stayed there. But what she realized was that the reason it was rematerializing was because that's where the focus of her attention was, okay. All right. So, that's a really important thing to say, and because most of us have not opened up the capabilities to do what she's doing. That's connected to the, you know, the Kundalini and... but, with her it happened spontaneously, in an instant, okay, which proves the point I'm trying to make that there is this spirit energy inside of us that is dynamic, that is moving, that responds to how we change our minds about it, okay, and what we want it to do. But if you're not in that awareness, if you're in an awareness like most people, of the linear track, right, where it's past, present, to future, this linear birth to death sort of frame of reference - it takes a lot of energy to sustain the belief in in a physical body on that level.  Mm-hmm. Okay. A dense physical body - it takes a lot of energy to hold that. And it's because it's not a true picture of what you really are, and so your mind is trying to maintain the illusion of this physical form and make it real!. It involves not only mental energy but it's physical energy, emotional energy all of that kind of thing, yes, to maintain that illusion. That's right, and that's why it's such a struggle here.  Because, this goes into all of the (coming from that position that people are in) everything else that we see in this world as normal, the rules, the laws, the efforting that has to happen, what you have to do to survive, all of that effort, effort, effort, to maintain the belief that there's this solid finite thing that you have to feed, that you have to support, that you have to protect constantly - it's exhausting! It really is exhausting. That's why the body dies. That's why, eventually, you're gonna get sick and you're gonna die, okay. Because number one, you can't maintain the illusion forever, all right. And death is the result of believing in that, because the positive side of death (if we could say that) because there's a couple things going on with death, right. We could get into the belief in, you know, disobeying God, or making ourselves physical (which was a sin against God) and all of that nonsense that some people still believe, but it's nonsense, that somehow God is upset with us now, and now we're gonna die, you know. The original sin is you became physical, let's just say, okay, and because you became physical now you're doomed to death. The body's great, you want to make a body, make a body, and now it's subject to death and decay and all this other. But it's a perception, and this is what I have to keep repeating. It's a perception, it's a perception, it's a perception of what you think is true. Do you think, Aingeal Rose, that underlying all the different belief systems on Earth (and I specifically mean on Earth) like through all the religions, is there that underlying understanding somewhere that it's all a perception. I don't think they... I don't think they're at the level of a perception at all. Right. I think they're at the level of the material universe was a disobeying thing (right) against God. That's where the whole guilt thing comes in. That's where guilt comes in. That's where sin comes in. That's where repentance comes in. All of that comes in, okay, because you know, or how many times have you heard that, you know, somebody who's wealthy, who's "materialistic" you know, they're doomed to hell, okay, that's somewhere in the Bible too, you know, but that's not true, you see, it isn't really true. Those are the beliefs we've been programmed (yes) to believe. And you mentioned at one point about the fact that we think (and I'm using this, I want to emphasize "think"), we think that we would be punished by God for making this whole illusion up in the first place. That's right. So, it's like a circular reference. It's a loop that we're in. It is, and if you believe that you're guilty on a deep subconscious level (yeah) for anything, what are you gonna do - you'll punish yourself because guilt demands punishment. Guilt demands punishment. Okay, so the thing is, is we even, you know, like I say, we we believe that suffering is justified here. That's all, that's all self-punishment. The reason people suffer is because somewhere in that deep psyche there is this worry, or this fear, or guilt, that we're guilty and we're gonna get ours, okay, sooner or later. I remember Aingeal Rose, many years ago, I didn't actually build the house, the house (the shell) was there already but I did a lot of work in the house so, I totally transformed it, you know, and I was so very proud of my work that I didn't want to let it go. I found it very difficult to sell it because I felt I made it, you see? So, what I'm getting at is, do you think that we don't want to give up this illusion because we've made it, and we've made such a good job of it, so we don't want to relinquish our ownership of this body, or our ownership of this illusion? Well, I think we're worried that we'll be annihilated if we do. I think we worry about if we give it up there's nothing gonna be there, and we won't even be there. We'll have no identity at all if we give it up because we truly believe our identity is our body. So, if we give up the illusion of believing in that, and believing that this physical world is is real (again, in the sense that it's solid and fixed - I have to be clear), we're not making this world wrong. (Yeah) It's enjoyable, but if you could look at it from a different perception, one that's fluid, one where things aren't set in stone, one where miracles can happen. Oh, what is a miracle? A miracle is a shift in perception that causes an instantaneous effect in the outer reality. That's a miracle - a shift in perception that causes an instantaneous change in the outer reality - despite the law of physics - that's a miracle. And that's the way we should be seeing. We should be coming from that place that anything is possible, because we have the plasma, and the lifeforce energy of God inside of us. We're made out of it. And it's all around us. That's when you go and you do these manifesting things, and you make affirmations or whatever, and you're really clear about your intention - it's the reason why it materializes. It is because the plasma field out there says, oh, you're giving me a new instruction, okay, well, here you go, here it is, you know. And at some point it pops. Now, speaking of a magical moment and a miracle, a miraculous moment. We are, as I mentioned at the outset, at the top of Pilot Butte and we've got an extraordinary view of a sunset over the Three Sisters Mountains in the distance, and it is indeed truly miraculous at that level. So, we're going to take this opportunity to take a break. We'll leave you with this beautiful picture and we will be right back after this. Throughout history, a humble yet vitally important plant has contributed to the health and prosperity of civilizations, both ancient and new. From the Egyptians to the Chinese, the Romans and the Greeks. From the Vikings of Northern Europe and to societies in Africa and all over the globe. From colonial times to the Industrial Revolution and to modern-day United States, this amazing plant has revolutionized economies. Used in textiles, paper, housing, agriculture, making roads, foods, medicines and fuel. It is said that oil derived from this plant was used for holy anointings, while legend has it this plant grew in southern Mesopotamia in the most famous garden of all. Described in religious texts that go back thousands of years - and yet for the last 75 years and more your access to this plants remarkable health and prosperity benefits have been blocked. Some say willfully kept from you, from the people who need it the most, and from a planet that strains to keep its balance at a time when millions struggle financially, barely getting by. And millions more suffer with pain. In a world where economies teeter on the edge of collapse, where the global ecosystem wobbles like a top spinning out of control. Betrayed by those who seek to control what you think, what you believe, what you can ingest, and how far you go in life. We now live in a world desperate for the plant that has been wrongfully taken to you. An amazing plant that nourishes the body, enriches the earth, and as you are about to discover, provides you with the ability to make a difference for your family, your community, and for generations yet to come. Be prepared to witness a story of rebirth, of cultures and economies, of your life and the life of our precious planet Earth. It's now your time to be part of the solution and learn more about the Kannaway Hemp lifestyle. Go to http://purestofCBD.com. Okay, you're very welcome back. You're listening to myself Ahonu and Aingeal Rose, and we have been really enjoying that miraculous few moments there watching that sunset. Let us mention there's about a hundred other people up here also watching the sunset. There are. And they do it every night, Ahonu. They do. They come up to Pilot Butte to watch the sunset over the mountains. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Now, before the break, Aingeal Rose, we were talking about guilt and how we think we'd be punished by God for making an illusionary world. Do you remember? And we also were talking about the fact that we don't really want to give up what we've made, and we like... we like living in the dream world, actually. You know, we like eating our gourmet meals and breathing fresh air, and you know, walking on a beach hand-in-hand, and raising children. It might be hard at times, but there's a wonderful pleasure to it, and all of that. So, we don't want to give that up. And no one's asking us to give it up. They're just asking us to look at it differently. Right. That's the key. That is the key, because I was reminded of something as we were watching the sun go down. Looking at the mountains made me think of this phrase in the Bible where Jesus, you know, told everybody that what he could do everyone else could do. And if you knew, if you were aware, you could say to the mountain "move" and it would move, and that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. It's a perception. It's not that you get out of the physical universe, that you dissolve the physical universe, that there's anything wrong with it - it's that you see it very differently. You see it as a malleable dreamscape in which you can put any dream. Right. So, why not make a happy dream? The Course in Miracles also talks about that - why not make a happy dream? Yes, it's still the dream but you know it's a dream. You know it's a dream, but you're making it a happy dream. That makes sense. And then, also I mentioned a keyword there earlier when I was talking about the sunset - how it was magical - and we would make magical things happen if we were at that level of consciousness and awareness. Well, miracles would be appearing... what we call miracles (yeah) if we really understood that we can mold reality any way we like. And we would know what was real. We would know definitely that all of this struggle, and scarcity, and suffering, and sickness, and death that we go through is a distorted perception. And we wouldn't expend the energy creating anymore death or dying because we'd know that there's no point to it. We wouldn't be holding onto it as a perception, as a belief system.  Right. Now, would that also be a reflection of our understanding that we're not guilty? Like, do you think they go hand-in-hand? The more we realized that we're not guilty of anything at all, that that's the realization that lifts us out of the illusion, lifts us out of the illusion. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, because once your... especially if you can embrace that you literally are the God force. You're made up of it. You're literally, you're literally made up of it, okay. Your body is composed of the waters of life. Your spirit is there in the form of electricity, okay. It's in your body. You are a living plasma field that can change the quality of it anytime you realize. And, I think that's the key. And I'm not saying that's easy, because we really are talking about, you know, very ingrained beliefs in this reality in terms of it being fixed, and us being limited. So, we're talking about being able to embrace the truth of you, which is that you're a living God creation. Okay, literally. We are divine fluid. Divine fluid, flowing through us. The water and the life. We are the water and the life. We are the waters of life. You can change the quality of water within yourself. You could tell it to be different. So, here's the thing - you know we've talked about this a lot as well, Ahonu, about the scientific studies where they've proven that water holds memory. Right. Yes. Or, when we go collect the waters from different places and we ingest them. The Sacred Earth Waters (http://sacredearthwaters.com). You get to experience what that being is because you're in the water of it, right? Yes. The memory of what it is is in there, so it's the same with ourselves, okay. We are living... and what we think we are is what those water crystals in our body turn into.  Okay. Here are some of the points that we've covered over the last two weeks, actually. We've covered a lot and I'm just going to give you a few quick bullet points out of this. That... Paying attention to life force energy molds it, and it does exactly what we want it to do. It is free and it's a clean life force energy. It's the magic of life. It is the God within. It's unlimited. It's unlimited, abundant. Yeah, and when we understood that, then there's no need to consume other life forms in order to live. That is true in truth, but we have to be careful that we're also not recommending that people stop eating, (yeah) because this shift in perception has to be really, really deep. Yes. You have to really understand it, and there are people on this Earth that are breatharians, but there are people also who've tried to be and have starved to death. So, we have to say... caution people about that. Yeah, yeah. Indeed, we have to caution people about realizing, coming into realizations, because it really shakes up your entire belief system about everything. It does. Everything across the board. There's a word of warning here. That's right. What we're saying really, would shift your whole perception of everything on Earth. Yeah. Why you do what you do, why you believe what you believe, what you think about yourself. Like I say, science genetics, physics, all of it. We also talked about the Divine fluid (when we were talking about water), you said that we are the waters and the life, and we are the fire, the electricity. We are the life principle in action. It's just that we forgot ourselves, and that we think we are something that we are not. And we believe that we're finite, and that we're solid, and that we are material, and that we need other physical things to keep us alive. So, isn't it interesting though, when you.. when you read out something like that, or you listen to it being said, that it kind of shocks you into thinking about it more deeply, and coming into a... I'm sure there'll be many of our listeners who will be saying, yeah, yeah that makes sense, that makes sense, I could go along with that - and this is what happens that, it's like these little triggers of awakening that makes sense. Because we have... we're too dynamic, we're to dynamic and too powerful to continue to live in an illusion. That's right. Yeah, yeah, and we expend so much energy doing it, we expend so much energy trying to keep it real. And the belief, yeah, we've created the belief that we've made ourselves finite and solid, where in fact, we are infinite. In fact, part of the realization today was that you can't materialize yourself. You cannot materialize yourself because you are pure spirit. You can make an appearance of something, but you can't make it be so. Well, isn't that very strong to even contemplate that fact? Yeah, and of course, on the level of the physical body, we're upset by this because we age and die, because we believe this, and that we believe that we have no life force supply of our own. We believe that we've cut ourselves off from the vital life force energy, and we believe that we have... well, of course, we have forgotten that we are the God within, and we believe that we are alone on this world, in this world, and in the universe. We feel that sense of separation, and isolation, and individuality. So, we're not connected to...  And you know, one of the biggest illusions that I've heard across the spiritual community especially, is that "truth is different for everybody." And it's not. The fundamental truth is we are all what you're reading there. We're all spiritual energy. We're all water and the Holy Spirit - that's the fundamental truth. It's true beyond everything. What they're talking about is that each person can choose to have different perceptions and make their reality as they see it. Yes. But it doesn't make the fundamentals of them not true. You said that there is no outside world apart from our own imagining, and that all of this is a distortion of our thinking. Well, the distortion is in thinking we're limited and finite, and we have to suffer and die, and that... that's the distortion. Yeah. You did mention a wonderfully stirring thing that we are the fallen angels, and that we've fallen into the belief that we're physical, and you mentioned about falling, and the false self, and that being false. Not a sinful being, now, when we're talking about a falling being, a fallen angel - we don't mean a sinful angel. We're not talking about a disobedient angel - we're talking about a misperception. The fall is when we had the misperception, or we forgot, you know, what we're really made of. Yeah. That's the fall. That's the root cause of all fear and illness and death. That's right. Yeah, and of course, that fear is that we're afraid that there would be no more world, or that we would be found out in some way. Yeah. We're afraid of it being exposed to us - of course, here we are exposing it, but I mean, we are afraid because yes, somebody will tell us that we've been living a lie all this time. Yeah, and on the level of your family you you may feel that, oh my God, you know, if this is all an illusion and it's no longer here, and if I believe it then I won't see or feel or be with my children, or they won't perceive me anymore, or I'll be gone, or does this mean... or everybody will disappear. Yeah, isn't it interesting...  (Or the whole world will disappear in the blink of an eye)... how the ego brings in the fear again to reinforce the belief. So, you'll still see the world, you just won't see it (yes) as solid. Yeah, you'll see that, like I mentioned, the dream world. You will, yeah, you'll look at that tree and you'll be able to see, like, I can look at that tree right now in front of us and see the form of it, but I'd also be seeing it in its light body. I'd be seeing the colors going through it, the molecules moving through it, the life force moving through it. That's when I see the real world. We would create magical things when we realize this.  And I'm going to read two or three more lines, Aingeal Rose, that you wrote, that I think are really... they're fabulous for us to use to bring this session to a conclusion. And it is that, we would create magical things instead. We would know what was really real. We wouldn't create any more death or dying because we'd know there's no point to it. We'd realize we're not guilty, and finally, we would be truly free. So, until next week folks, you've been listening to myself Ahonu, and to my beautiful Aingeal Rose. See you next week. Bye bye. You have been listening to Aingeal Rose and Ahonu on World of Empowerment Radio - your station for practical spirituality in a changing world! Let us know your thoughts on it all. We hope you enjoy our discussion at sunset on Pilot Butte. Remember this discussion was in two parts, so make sure you are subscribed to us on YouTube, iTunes, Stitcher Radio, Google Play or on our podcast site at http://honesttogodseries.com so you never miss an episode. Also remember to check out our new World of Empowerment website where we have a whole new program of spiritual goodies for you. You can find that at https://worldofempowerment.com. You can listen to all our podcasts on iTunes, on Google Play, iHeart Radio, or Stitcher Radio.                                                                                                  Twin Flame Productions LLC Website | Newsletter | Consultations

Aingeal Rose & Ahonu went to the top of Pilot Butte in Bend, Oregon to view the sunset. Little did they know that it would spawn two episodes of The Honest-to-God Series. This is Part 2. While watching the sunset, they discussed everything from ascension to death and dying. It all arose from weeks and weeks of exploring why living is such an effort, why we must eat in order to live, why we consume other lifeforms, and why we die. There is a transcript below of Part 2 of our discussion entitled, "Sunset on Pilot Butte". You are very welcome. I am Ahonu and with me is my lovely Aingeal Rose, and today we have decided to come back to Pilot Butte which is in the center, well it's not in the center, but it's within the city limits of Bend in Central Oregon, and surrounded by a circle of volcanoes. And we chose this spot because last week, we had a really evocative discussion about life and death, and why we're here, and the physical body, and illness, and sickness, and all of that kind of thing. And we wanted to explore it because we got a lot of feedback from it where people were willing us, encouraging us, to explore it more because there's so much to it. And we tried to cover it all in a space of, like 20-25 minutes (which is a lot to ask actually) so, we're gonna try and do the same thing again now. But today, we're gonna focus on the aspect of the amount of energy that it takes us to actually be here. And what I mean by that is, moving even from just the physical aspect, even if you were to go back to the conception of a child, you know, the amount of energy that it takes for a woman to carry a child and then deliver the child, and then for the baby itself to grow, and it's using the energy of food which supposedly has come from the Sun that through photosynthesis, you know, it's using that energy and converting it into the growth of the physical body. And then, as we grow into adulthood we're doing the same thing. We're using external energy to fuel the body. Which proves it isn't real. Well, let's get into it Aingeal Rose, yeah, because it's a very interesting concept, actually, that we believe we're in. So, talk to us about that. What, why... you did mention at the close of last week's session where it takes a lot of energy for us to be here. So, if we are in a spirit body would we be using that kind of energy at all? Well, no, because if you were aware that you were a spirit body (and this again is where we have to make the distinction. (Right). You can have a physical form, you can have an appearance of a physical body, with also realizing that it isn't really solid. That it's an energy body, okay. Here's a good ... wait here's a good example. Do you remember when we had Penny Kelly on? Yeah. A couple... in times past. Yes. And Penny, who was somebody who had a full Kundalini Awakening, and she was talking about how now she can be in two places at once. She can get out of her body. She can travel to how many levels of the dream state (yes) without her body, and she was telling the story about how she had some relatives at her home one time, and she was still in bed, and she heard them talking down in the kitchen and she was still out of her body, so being out of her body she floated down and she kind of hid in the cupboard so she could hear what they were all talking about. She was watching them. She was watching them, yeah, in her spirit body. And then she lingered there a while, and all of a sudden she realized that her physical body was starting to rematerialize. And they might see her if she stayed there. But what she realized was that the reason it was rematerializing was because that's where the focus of her attention was, okay. All right. So, that's a really important thing to say, and because most of us have not opened up the capabilities to do what she's doing. That's connected to the, you know, the Kundalini and... but, with her it happened spontaneously, in an instant, okay, which proves the point I'm trying to make that there is this spirit energy inside of us that is dynamic, that is moving, that responds to how we change our minds about it, okay, and what we want it to do. But if you're not in that awareness, if you're in an awareness like most people, of the linear track, right, where it's past, present, to future, this linear birth to death sort of frame of reference - it takes a lot of energy to sustain the belief in in a physical body on that level.  Mm-hmm. Okay. A dense physical body - it takes a lot of energy to hold that. And it's because it's not a true picture of what you really are, and so your mind is trying to maintain the illusion of this physical form and make it real!. It involves not only mental energy but it's physical energy, emotional energy all of that kind of thing, yes, to maintain that illusion. That's right, and that's why it's such a struggle here.  Because, this goes into all of the (coming from that position that people are in) everything else that we see in this world as normal, the rules, the laws, the efforting that has to happen, what you have to do to survive, all of that effort, effort, effort, to maintain the belief that there's this solid finite thing that you have to feed, that you have to support, that you have to protect constantly - it's exhausting! It really is exhausting. That's why the body dies. That's why, eventually, you're gonna get sick and you're gonna die, okay. Because number one, you can't maintain the illusion forever, all right. And death is the result of believing in that, because the positive side of death (if we could say that) because there's a couple things going on with death, right. We could get into the belief in, you know, disobeying God, or making ourselves physical (which was a sin against God) and all of that nonsense that some people still believe, but it's nonsense, that somehow God is upset with us now, and now we're gonna die, you know. The original sin is you became physical, let's just say, okay, and because you became physical now you're doomed to death. The body's great, you want to make a body, make a body, and now it's subject to death and decay and all this other. But it's a perception, and this is what I have to keep repeating. It's a perception, it's a perception, it's a perception of what you think is true. Do you think, Aingeal Rose, that underlying all the different belief systems on Earth (and I specifically mean on Earth) like through all the religions, is there that underlying understanding somewhere that it's all a perception. I don't think they... I don't think they're at the level of a perception at all. Right. I think they're at the level of the material universe was a disobeying thing (right) against God. That's where the whole guilt thing comes in. That's where guilt comes in. That's where sin comes in. That's where repentance comes in. All of that comes in, okay, because you know, or how many times have you heard that, you know, somebody who's wealthy, who's "materialistic" you know, they're doomed to hell, okay, that's somewhere in the Bible too, you know, but that's not true, you see, it isn't really true. Those are the beliefs we've been programmed (yes) to believe. And you mentioned at one point about the fact that we think (and I'm using this, I want to emphasize "think"), we think that we would be punished by God for making this whole illusion up in the first place. That's right. So, it's like a circular reference. It's a loop that we're in. It is, and if you believe that you're guilty on a deep subconscious level (yeah) for anything, what are you gonna do - you'll punish yourself because guilt demands punishment. Guilt demands punishment. Okay, so the thing is, is we even, you know, like I say, we we believe that suffering is justified here. That's all, that's all self-punishment. The reason people suffer is because somewhere in that deep psyche there is this worry, or this fear, or guilt, that we're guilty and we're gonna get ours, okay, sooner or later. I remember Aingeal Rose, many years ago, I didn't actually build the house, the house (the shell) was there already but I did a lot of work in the house so, I totally transformed it, you know, and I was so very proud of my work that I didn't want to let it go. I found it very difficult to sell it because I felt I made it, you see? So, what I'm getting at is, do you think that we don't want to give up this illusion because we've made it, and we've made such a good job of it, so we don't want to relinquish our ownership of this body, or our ownership of this illusion? Well, I think we're worried that we'll be annihilated if we do. I think we worry about if we give it up there's nothing gonna be there, and we won't even be there. We'll have no identity at all if we give it up because we truly believe our identity is our body. So, if we give up the illusion of believing in that, and believing that this physical world is is real (again, in the sense that it's solid and fixed - I have to be clear), we're not making this world wrong. (Yeah) It's enjoyable, but if you could look at it from a different perception, one that's fluid, one where things aren't set in stone, one where miracles can happen. Oh, what is a miracle? A miracle is a shift in perception that causes an instantaneous effect in the outer reality. That's a miracle - a shift in perception that causes an instantaneous change in the outer reality - despite the law of physics - that's a miracle. And that's the way we should be seeing. We should be coming from that place that anything is possible, because we have the plasma, and the lifeforce energy of God inside of us. We're made out of it. And it's all around us. That's when you go and you do these manifesting things, and you make affirmations or whatever, and you're really clear about your intention - it's the reason why it materializes. It is because the plasma field out there says, oh, you're giving me a new instruction, okay, well, here you go, here it is, you know. And at some point it pops. Now, speaking of a magical moment and a miracle, a miraculous moment. We are, as I mentioned at the outset, at the top of Pilot Butte and we've got an extraordinary view of a sunset over the Three Sisters Mountains in the distance, and it is indeed truly miraculous at that level. So, we're going to take this opportunity to take a break. We'll leave you with this beautiful picture and we will be right back after this. Throughout history, a humble yet vitally important plant has contributed to the health and prosperity of civilizations, both ancient and new. From the Egyptians to the Chinese, the Romans and the Greeks. From the Vikings of Northern Europe and to societies in Africa and all over the globe. From colonial times to the Industrial Revolution and to modern-day United States, this amazing plant has revolutionized economies. Used in textiles, paper, housing, agriculture, making roads, foods, medicines and fuel. It is said that oil derived from this plant was used for holy anointings, while legend has it this plant grew in southern Mesopotamia in the most famous garden of all. 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Be prepared to witness a story of rebirth, of cultures and economies, of your life and the life of our precious planet Earth. It's now your time to be part of the solution and learn more about the Kannaway Hemp lifestyle. Go to http://purestofCBD.com. Okay, you're very welcome back. You're listening to myself Ahonu and Aingeal Rose, and we have been really enjoying that miraculous few moments there watching that sunset. Let us mention there's about a hundred other people up here also watching the sunset. There are. And they do it every night, Ahonu. They do. They come up to Pilot Butte to watch the sunset over the mountains. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Now, before the break, Aingeal Rose, we were talking about guilt and how we think we'd be punished by God for making an illusionary world. Do you remember? And we also were talking about the fact that we don't really want to give up what we've made, and we like... we like living in the dream world, actually. You know, we like eating our gourmet meals and breathing fresh air, and you know, walking on a beach hand-in-hand, and raising children. It might be hard at times, but there's a wonderful pleasure to it, and all of that. So, we don't want to give that up. And no one's asking us to give it up. They're just asking us to look at it differently. Right. That's the key. That is the key, because I was reminded of something as we were watching the sun go down. Looking at the mountains made me think of this phrase in the Bible where Jesus, you know, told everybody that what he could do everyone else could do. And if you knew, if you were aware, you could say to the mountain "move" and it would move, and that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. It's a perception. It's not that you get out of the physical universe, that you dissolve the physical universe, that there's anything wrong with it - it's that you see it very differently. You see it as a malleable dreamscape in which you can put any dream. Right. So, why not make a happy dream? The Course in Miracles also talks about that - why not make a happy dream? Yes, it's still the dream but you know it's a dream. You know it's a dream, but you're making it a happy dream. That makes sense. And then, also I mentioned a keyword there earlier when I was talking about the sunset - how it was magical - and we would make magical things happen if we were at that level of consciousness and awareness. Well, miracles would be appearing... what we call miracles (yeah) if we really understood that we can mold reality any way we like. And we would know what was real. We would know definitely that all of this struggle, and scarcity, and suffering, and sickness, and death that we go through is a distorted perception. And we wouldn't expend the energy creating anymore death or dying because we'd know that there's no point to it. We wouldn't be holding onto it as a perception, as a belief system.  Right. Now, would that also be a reflection of our understanding that we're not guilty? Like, do you think they go hand-in-hand? The more we realized that we're not guilty of anything at all, that that's the realization that lifts us out of the illusion, lifts us out of the illusion. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, because once your... especially if you can embrace that you literally are the God force. You're made up of it. You're literally, you're literally made up of it, okay. Your body is composed of the waters of life. Your spirit is there in the form of electricity, okay. It's in your body. You are a living plasma field that can change the quality of it anytime you realize. And, I think that's the key. And I'm not saying that's easy, because we really are talking about, you know, very ingrained beliefs in this reality in terms of it being fixed, and us being limited. So, we're talking about being able to embrace the truth of you, which is that you're a living God creation. Okay, literally. We are divine fluid. Divine fluid, flowing through us. The water and the life. We are the water and the life. We are the waters of life. You can change the quality of water within yourself. You could tell it to be different. So, here's the thing - you know we've talked about this a lot as well, Ahonu, about the scientific studies where they've proven that water holds memory. Right. Yes. Or, when we go collect the waters from different places and we ingest them. The Sacred Earth Waters (http://sacredearthwaters.com). You get to experience what that being is because you're in the water of it, right? Yes. The memory of what it is is in there, so it's the same with ourselves, okay. We are living... and what we think we are is what those water crystals in our body turn into.  Okay. Here are some of the points that we've covered over the last two weeks, actually. We've covered a lot and I'm just going to give you a few quick bullet points out of this. That... Paying attention to life force energy molds it, and it does exactly what we want it to do. It is free and it's a clean life force energy. It's the magic of life. It is the God within. It's unlimited. It's unlimited, abundant. Yeah, and when we understood that, then there's no need to consume other life forms in order to live. That is true in truth, but we have to be careful that we're also not recommending that people stop eating, (yeah) because this shift in perception has to be really, really deep. Yes. You have to really understand it, and there are people on this Earth that are breatharians, but there are people also who've tried to be and have starved to death. So, we have to say... caution people about that. Yeah, yeah. Indeed, we have to caution people about realizing, coming into realizations, because it really shakes up your entire belief system about everything. It does. Everything across the board. There's a word of warning here. That's right. What we're saying really, would shift your whole perception of everything on Earth. Yeah. Why you do what you do, why you believe what you believe, what you think about yourself. Like I say, science genetics, physics, all of it. We also talked about the Divine fluid (when we were talking about water), you said that we are the waters and the life, and we are the fire, the electricity. We are the life principle in action. It's just that we forgot ourselves, and that we think we are something that we are not. And we believe that we're finite, and that we're solid, and that we are material, and that we need other physical things to keep us alive. So, isn't it interesting though, when you.. when you read out something like that, or you listen to it being said, that it kind of shocks you into thinking about it more deeply, and coming into a... I'm sure there'll be many of our listeners who will be saying, yeah, yeah that makes sense, that makes sense, I could go along with that - and this is what happens that, it's like these little triggers of awakening that makes sense. Because we have... we're too dynamic, we're to dynamic and too powerful to continue to live in an illusion. That's right. Yeah, yeah, and we expend so much energy doing it, we expend so much energy trying to keep it real. And the belief, yeah, we've created the belief that we've made ourselves finite and solid, where in fact, we are infinite. In fact, part of the realization today was that you can't materialize yourself. You cannot materialize yourself because you are pure spirit. You can make an appearance of something, but you can't make it be so. Well, isn't that very strong to even contemplate that fact? Yeah, and of course, on the level of the physical body, we're upset by this because we age and die, because we believe this, and that we believe that we have no life force supply of our own. We believe that we've cut ourselves off from the vital life force energy, and we believe that we have... well, of course, we have forgotten that we are the God within, and we believe that we are alone on this world, in this world, and in the universe. We feel that sense of separation, and isolation, and individuality. So, we're not connected to...  And you know, one of the biggest illusions that I've heard across the spiritual community especially, is that "truth is different for everybody." And it's not. The fundamental truth is we are all what you're reading there. We're all spiritual energy. We're all water and the Holy Spirit - that's the fundamental truth. It's true beyond everything. What they're talking about is that each person can choose to have different perceptions and make their reality as they see it. Yes. But it doesn't make the fundamentals of them not true. You said that there is no outside world apart from our own imagining, and that all of this is a distortion of our thinking. Well, the distortion is in thinking we're limited and finite, and we have to suffer and die, and that... that's the distortion. Yeah. You did mention a wonderfully stirring thing that we are the fallen angels, and that we've fallen into the belief that we're physical, and you mentioned about falling, and the false self, and that being false. Not a sinful being, now, when we're talking about a falling being, a fallen angel - we don't mean a sinful angel. We're not talking about a disobedient angel - we're talking about a misperception. The fall is when we had the misperception, or we forgot, you know, what we're really made of. Yeah. That's the fall. That's the root cause of all fear and illness and death. That's right. Yeah, and of course, that fear is that we're afraid that there would be no more world, or that we would be found out in some way. Yeah. We're afraid of it being exposed to us - of course, here we are exposing it, but I mean, we are afraid because yes, somebody will tell us that we've been living a lie all this time. Yeah, and on the level of your family you you may feel that, oh my God, you know, if this is all an illusion and it's no longer here, and if I believe it then I won't see or feel or be with my children, or they won't perceive me anymore, or I'll be gone, or does this mean... or everybody will disappear. Yeah, isn't it interesting...  (Or the whole world will disappear in the blink of an eye)... how the ego brings in the fear again to reinforce the belief. So, you'll still see the world, you just won't see it (yes) as solid. Yeah, you'll see that, like I mentioned, the dream world. You will, yeah, you'll look at that tree and you'll be able to see, like, I can look at that tree right now in front of us and see the form of it, but I'd also be seeing it in its light body. I'd be seeing the colors going through it, the molecules moving through it, the life force moving through it. That's when I see the real world. We would create magical things when we realize this.  And I'm going to read two or three more lines, Aingeal Rose, that you wrote, that I think are really... they're fabulous for us to use to bring this session to a conclusion. And it is that, we would create magical things instead. We would know what was really real. We wouldn't create any more death or dying because we'd know there's no point to it. We'd realize we're not guilty, and finally, we would be truly free. So, until next week folks, you've been listening to myself Ahonu, and to my beautiful Aingeal Rose. See you next week. Bye bye. You have been listening to Aingeal Rose and Ahonu on World of Empowerment Radio - your station for practical spirituality in a changing world! Let us know your thoughts on it all. We hope you enjoy our discussion at sunset on Pilot Butte. Remember this discussion was in two parts, so make sure you are subscribed to us on YouTube, iTunes, Stitcher Radio, Google Play or on our podcast site at http://honesttogodseries.com so you never miss an episode. Also remember to check out our new World of Empowerment website where we have a whole new program of spiritual goodies for you. You can find that at https://worldofempowerment.com. You can listen to all our podcasts on iTunes, on Google Play, iHeart Radio, or Stitcher Radio.                                                                                                  Twin Flame Productions LLC Website | Newsletter | Consultations

We're back with the podcast you need: Part 2 with Damon Young of VSB. If you haven't already, don't forget to listen to Part 1: PB60: “Overnight Success” ft. Damon Young of Very Smart Brothas. This episode is equally colorful but tackles more serious topics like life, health, and personal finance. Our discussions include: What it's like to have new money with old problems like being the first to make it while balancing staying #woke and authentic with #TheStruggle How not having enough money may have caused Damon to ignore a health scare for years that could have cost him his life The 15-year journey to become an "overnight success" and the book deal with Ecco (HarperCollins) that's changed his life forever The impact raising a child has had on Damon's views on finances, his upbringing, money, and what he plans to teach his daughter about money in the future References #BreakingNews - VSB gets acquired: The Root Is Gaining 2 Very Smart Brothas Damon Young on VSB: Money Isn’t Everything…Unless You Don’t Have It, then Yeah It’s Everything Damon Young on GQ Behind the Brilliance Podcast: Ep 117 ft Lisa Nicole Bell and Damon Young A New Generation Emerges: Xennials Born 1977-1983 Would-Be Parents Underestimate and Unprepared for Potential Costs of Raising a Baby How Much You'll Spend on Childcare ICYMI – VSB feature: How Marcus Got $26,000 in Debt in Less than 72-Hours Announcements Check out our PATREON page! We’re raising funds to grow the show so we can create more great content that helps you get ahead professionally and financially. Read Marcus’ book on how he buried and dug his way out of over $30,000 in debt by age 30, Debt Free Or Die Trying, on Amazon. Looking for more career development and debt freedom tips? Join our email list at PaychecksandBalances.com/email for exclusive content including show updates, digital giveaways, and more. We don’t spam. We just keeps it real. Yes, keeps. LIKE us on Facebook.com/PaychecksandBalances or follow us on Twitter @PayBalances and Instagram at the same name!

I did the direct client service thing for many years. I liked it, too. For the most part I felt like I added value to the world, but sometimes the clients drove me bat-shit crazy. They would do or say things that made me want to jump in front of a bus. There are a substantial number of lawyers, however, who don't experience sudden suicidal urges like mine when working with clients. They love caring for people in the community, solving problems, and feeling pride in a job well done. They love their work, no doubt. We're all different. We have different experiences and perspectives. We each derive satisfaction from different elements of the practice (and business) of law. After many years serving clients while managing a business, I realized that serving wasn't how I derived satisfaction. I'd had enough of the lack of clarity that comes from splitting my time between two functions. I knew my time was more valuable when I spent it making the business run more efficiently and effectively. I was certain the business would be better off if I built it up, rather than getting bogged down by the daily minutiae. I had reached my limit. I wanted to work exclusively on the business, not in it. It was time for me to make a switch. That's when I stopped serving on the front lines, taking calls, appearing in court, handling consultations, etc. I moved to the back office and led the team from behind the scenes. Nevertheless, I was still sucked into daily tasks. I had emails to answer, client calls to return, and endless questions from my team to resolve. I was still spending considerable time in the business, long after I decided to switch to working on the business. As sure as I was that this plan was right for me, I struggled with the transition. I fantasized about a time - far off in the future - when I would have the freedom, space, and energy to fully shift my focus from in to on. I could see that version of my business off on the horizon, but as I ran toward it, it seemed to move further away. My time working on instead of in the law firm has inspired most of the insights I've shared here over the years. I've been involved in every element of my practice. I went from working in someone else's firm as an associate to working all by myself in a makeshift office fashioned from a former hallway. For a while, I served my clients without assistance. Over time, I grew the business to nearly fifty team members. I found it necessary (and inviting!) to spend my time working on instead of in. In fact, I found working on much more pleasurable than directly serving clients. Make the switch from in to on There's no reason to wait to make the switch from working in your business to working on your business. If the decision is right for you, it should happen quickly. Today I'm going to talk about whether making the switch is sensible for you. As someone who made that switch myself (possible prematurely), I have special insight into how the transition plays out. (Hint: It's not all rainbows and sunshine.) So when is the right time to stop serving clients and focus on your business's growth and success? Is it now? Sometime in the future? It depends. Don't you hate when the answer is “It depends”? Don't worry, I'm going to answer the question, but it really does depend on a number of considerations. Let's go through each one to figure out if now is the right time for you to make the switch. 1. Do you enjoy client service? Some lawyers want to get busy working on instead of in the practice because they hate dealing with clients. They assume, mistakenly, that working on the business will insulate them from the day-to-day client interaction that prevents their happiness and satisfaction. Working on the business doesn't separate you from clients. In fact, it increases your involvement in the messy stuff. Upset clients always want to talk to the boss. Unhappy clients file grievances, too, which get managed by the boss. Then they file malpractice actions. The people working on the business deal with those too. Sometimes the desire to switch from in to on is just a symptom of the need to get out of the legal profession entirely. Let's face it: Being a lawyer isn't for everyone. It's not always mentally stimulating, enjoyable or satisfying. Lawyer books on "alternative careers" are perennial bestsellers. Did you know there is work you can do other than practicing law? You can quit. Yes, you'll still owe your student loans. Yes, you'll have wasted three years of education. And all those years gaining experience? Wasted, too. But maybe you'll be happy. You need to seriously consider whether you're looking to move away from client interaction because you hate being a lawyer. Working on a law firm doesn't turn it into Disney World. It's still a law firm. It's still a business that requires serving many unhappy, upset, and irrational people in unfortunate situations. But you don't have to do any of it. You can always walk away. Decide for yourself whether your desire to switch roles stems from a need to deliver better service to your clients, or if it's driven by a need to avoid clients altogether. Switching roles without the right motivation is just a stalling tactic to keep yourself employed while you find your true passion. The sooner you gain this self-awareness, the less time and energy you'll waste before you can find real happiness. 2. Do you believe others are like you? Most of us are driven. We're motivated, inspired, and love learning. We wake up in the morning, excited by the challenges we'll face each day. We're the type who make task lists. We have a plan for where we're going. But that isn't true for everyone. Unfortunately, most of us have a hard time accepting that other people see the world differently and have different agendas. We spend hours asking ourselves "why did he do that?" as we watch the behavior of others. They do it differently because they have different interests, ideas, plans, and priorities. They are not us. You'll be miserable working on the business if you believe that others think the way you think. You'll add to your frustration if you hunt for employees who think and function like you. They're few and far between, and you'll be regularly disappointed. Most people need direction, management, and frequent communication, guidance, and feedback. Most people are not self-starters who see the big picture. You'll be frustrated if you believe that others ought to think like you, act like you act, and hold your beliefs. People are people and they all come with issues. If you think clients are challenging, just wait until you're dealing with associates all day long. They have personal issues, work issues, and workplace issues. The problems never stop. There will be conflict, emotion and complexity. Working on the business often means working on your team. Working on the business includes managing people who are experiencing tough times. That sounds just like delivering legal services to clients, doesn't it? Much of working on the business includes the same issues as working in the business. It's not always different and it's not always better. 3. Will the change make you more money? The firm will likely grow as you move from working in the business to working on the business. Simply throwing a resource (you) at a problem will have an impact. Freeing up your time and devoting it to the right things will cause growth to happen, which is good. But growth doesn't necessarily improve your bottom line. It's possible to be bigger and be less profitable. It's likely, especially at first, that you'll grow the top line, increase the bottom line and still take home less money. That's because you'll be paying someone to do the work you previously handled. Your income was (most likely) attributable to your client service efforts. Paying someone else to do that work will come straight out of your pocket. You'll make more money eventually as you continue to develop your marketing, refine your management, improve your technology, and employ financial management strategies. It won't happen immediately as each of these improvements takes time to impact the business. Each step will take attention, energy, and experimentation. 4. Do you have the skills and interest? There's little point working on your business if you don't have the strength or interest. Most lawyers get excited about handling cases and advocating for clients. Running a business just isn't on their radar. They operate the business because it's required in order to achieve their real goal of serving clients. Many lawyers don't have much vision for their business. If they wanted to run a business, they'd have gone to business school, right? They don't want to set goals, assemble a team, create a culture, manage cash, or implement a marketing strategy. If you don't have the passion to run and grow a business, you won't develop it. Pushing yourself to do something unpleasant isn't unsustainable. Some of us, however, love running a business. In fact, many successful business leaders are educated in the law. Quite a few examples come to mind: Peter Thiel (Palantir), Summer Redstone (Viacom), and Samuel Robson Walton (Walmart). These smart lawyers quickly realize that their skill set is better employed in industries where there's more transferable value creation and larger markets. If running a law firm is your choice, don't expect to be good at it automatically. Most people become stronger business owners in two ways. They learn by making big, painful, expensive mistakes They aggressively seek out educational opportunities. You'll need to devote time, money and energy to building your skills. Most lawyers that make the transition are decent at marketing. Unfortunately, they lack skills in management, technology, and finance. Making a business work requires a comprehensive understanding of all the issues. 5. Can the business support management? Many lawyers decide to step out of the client service role far too early. They do it long before the firm has any traction. They get distracted by a few good months of revenue and decide that they're Warren Buffett. Sadly, when they lose an associate or have a bad month they're back in the courtroom. Many small businesses can't afford a management layer. They're just too small and the need for management isn't significant enough to justify the cost. For instance, a three-employee firm generating one million dollars in revenue doesn't require a full-time manager. There's just not that much managing to do. I meet a lot of lawyers who have a plan for giving up client service in order to devote themselves full-time to marketing. That's a great idea if you have the capital, but most firms don't. If you can afford to slash your income to pursue more clients, do it. But if you can't sustain the business, you need to run your numbers carefully and bootstrap one step at a time. Truthfully, this is a resource allocation question. Firms with under a million dollars in revenue aren't ready for a full-time marketer (or a full-time anything that doesn't play a direct service role) unless the owner has outside resources paying his/her living expenses. 6. Does the business generate return on investment? Some lawyers expect the business to generate a return on their investment. They figure, logically, that they own a business which took years to create. They believe it has a significant value and they expect that value to translate into some sort of income. They assume that the business generates a profit beyond the reasonable value of their work. That profit should cover some, if not all, of the short-term cost of their move from in to on. Unfortunately, many law firms aren't sufficiently established to generate much profit. You should think of your business as an investment. Again, it's useful to have a realistic sense of the asset you own and how it compares to other assets. Understanding our assets enables us to make smart financial decisions and gives us a sense of how to develop our vision for a path forward. Some lawyers imagine a future in which they replace their role in the business with a professional team which handles all of the work while they cash checks on a beach in Turkey (beautiful beaches there, by the way). Let's do some math to determine if the numbers will support a beach lifestyle. If you had ten million dollars invested in mutual funds, you'd reasonably expect a return on your investment. That return would come in the form of dividends or growth of the principle. If you own a law firm worth ten million dollars, you'd expect the same kind of return. If you can't get the same (or better) return on your business, it would be logical to sell it and invest the proceeds. When I talk with other lawyers about the health and growth of their business, this is the part of the conversation that becomes awkward. I explain the return they should expect from the business. They state their thoughts about the value of the business. Then I do the math. Invariably, the return (after factoring in a replacement for their labor within the firm) isn't comparable to what they'd make in the stock market. I suggest selling the business and buying mutual funds. That leads to more discussion of the valuation, liquidity challenges, and the limited number of prospective buyers. That's when they start connecting the dots and discover that the return on investment is the best place to start when calculating the business's value. The assessment of their situation is revealing, sometimes distressing, but undoubtedly realistic. I'm not suggesting that law firms are impossible to sell or that they lack significant value. I am, however, telling you to be realistic. I've found Built to Sell very helpful in wrapping my brain around the possibilities and developing an action plan. Understanding the value of the underlying asset is particularly helpful in refining your mindset as you contemplate moving from in to on. It's a perspective most of us lack as a result of the holes in our training. You need to think of the business as an asset, and you need to understand how the financial numbers work now and how you might choose to impact value. So what's the answer? Should you make the shift from working in the business to on the business? Yeah… It depends. There's quite a bit to consider and it only makes sense once you've established a solid foundation. It's essential that the switch is something you're equipped to handle and that it's something you want to do. You also need to be prepared for the short-term financial impact of losing your labor on the front lines. If you've decided that moving from in to on makes sense for you and your business, then it's time to make the switch. That begs the next question: How do you do that? How do you extract yourself from in so you can spend your days working on? 1. Think differently Play a game with me. Suspend disbelief and step into a world unaffected by things like the ethical rules of nonlawyer ownership of law firms. Do the following: Pretend you don't have a law license. Accept that you own a law firm. Accept that the law firm is an essential source of your income. What do you do today? What's your next step? How do you get that call returned? How do you get that e-mail answered? How do you answer employee questions and accomplish your daily tasks? How do you attract clients? How do you handle consultations? Who does the legal work? What if you weren't able (because in this scenario you don't have a law license) to serve your clients? Who would do it? How would it be managed and supervised? How would the clients be treated? How would the firm practice law? Answering these questions shifts your brain from in to on mode. They start the ball rolling as you think about what needs to happen to shift your role. 2. Start doing the on stuff. You're ready to focus on the business's growth. You want to bump up the bottom line. You'd like to take home a little more money, do a little less work, and have less client-related stress. You've got a realistic understanding of how this will play out and you're committed. What do you do to make the transition happen? Where do you start? It's simple, really. You just do it. You start working on the business and stop using yourself as the default person to work in the business. When the phone rings, don't answer. When email arrives, don't respond. When the client freaks out, don't talk him off the ledge. When the deadline approaches, don't jump in and finish the work. When the fee is due, don't collect. 3. Have someone else do client service work In practice, delegating is simple: Transfer all of your client work to someone else. “But, but, but,” you say. “I could have done it. It would have been done right. It would have been quick and efficient.” Yeah, that's true. But then you'd be working in the business instead of on the business. If you're going to focus on the business, then focus on the business. Let your team focus on the day-to-day client management. 4. Accept a messy transition Of course, the transition will be stressful and frustrating. You'll even make less money for a while. There's no way to make more money until you start adding more value. If you're good at working on the business, you'll make more eventually. Knowing that the transition from in to on will actually cost money should put pressure on you to start adding value quickly so revenue increases. You need to see quick financial results. 5. Allocate your time and money carefully There will be a moment after you make the transition that you'll have little to do. Once you're out of the client service role and your marketing machine begins to accelerate, you'll find yourself with moments of calm. When that happens, don't let your foot off the gas pedal. Don't be tempted to take a break from working on your business. Most importantly, don't jump back into your old client service role. You are in a financially vulnerable period. Press forward into the unknown. Move quickly. You'll likely add value fastest by applying more energy and resources to marketing. Balance this by making it possible for your staff to cope with the work increase through better management and technology. Building clear financial dashboards will help you identify and address issues before they arise and create problems. This balance requires vigilance. Change is difficult. Devoting a big percentage of your day to marketing may feel awkward. Marketing often involves taking chances, risking failure, and feeling vulnerable. You picked a path into an uncomfortable arena. Don't back away when the expected discomfort manifests. Move forward. Keep going. 6. Resist the pull to return to working in your business The transition is difficult and it takes time. You can't flip a switch and suddenly appear in your new role. There are forces that will suck you back to your old role. Most lawyers don't survive the switch. They let the tide pull them back into client service. You have to really want to make the move stick for it to become permanent. You need drive to transition because life resists change. If you've ever tried to lose weight, start exercising, or quit a bad habit, then you know what I mean. Making change stick is incredibly hard. It's easy to slip back into our former role. You'll make justifications like “Good help is hard to find,” “Only I can do this,” or “The client prefers my work.” (The no-one-else-can-do-it-but-me mentality is quite a disease.) It's easy to blame an event. An associate will leave and you'll rationalize returning to your old role. A client will demand your service and you'll rationalize. Someone will have a crisis (health, financial, legal, whatever) and you'll rationalize. It's easy to talk yourself right back into working in your business. Resist. Now it's time to decide If you actually want to work on the business instead of in the business, then do it. It really is that simple. But simple doesn't mean easy. At this point you have a better feel for what it means to shift from in to on. This shift is not a way to make a hard job easy. It's not a way to avoid clients. It's not a way to skip messy human interaction. It's a tough job that's different than serving clients directly, but still difficult and stressful. Your understanding gives you options. You only have a few: Keep doing the work and serving the clients. Working on the business full-time isn't for everyone. It's okay to accept that it isn't for you. Recognize that delivering legal services simply doesn't make you happy and look for alternative work. Use your newfound perspective to hire someone to focus on the business so you can keep serving clients. Make a transition from in to on. Embrace learning something new and building the value of your asset. Throw yourself in front of the nearest moving bus. Options are a good thing. Choices give us a way up and a way out. They give us control, which makes us feel better. I hope my experience illuminates the path for you. I hope you've gained a perspective that helps you decide whether you'd rather be working in or on and helps you find the path to get where you want to go.

Can you guess what most of this episode is about? To be honest, if you are sick of hearing about Fallout 4, you might want to just skip this one. It's most of the episode. We do find time to talk about Rise of the Tomb Raider as well though. Huh? You like that? Yeah? It's good!

It’s the “Resenties,” the best of the worst movies as voted by bad movie podcasters. Shows like: We Hate Movies, Yeah…It’s That Bad, Movie Mastication, Filmjitzu, Rewatchability Podcast, Horrible Movie Night, Zombie Take out and others! Vote by leaving your pick here, on Itunes or our Facebook page. You choose.  The winner will be announced […] The post Best of the Worst 2012 appeared first on Proudly Resents: The cult movie podcast.