Forktales

Laurel Orley is the founder and CEO of Daily Crunch Snacks and a mission-driven entrepreneur with a background in advertising. After more than a decade building major brands like Dove at Unilever, she transitioned to launch her own company focused on health, flavor, and impact.Daily Crunch Snacks is a women-owned snack brand offering sprouted, air-dried almonds and other nut blends with bold, innovative flavors. Rooted in a family recipe and a mission to support mental health, the brand emphasizes clean ingredients, sustainability, and crave-worthy crunch.Laurel launched Daily Crunch with her aunt Diane, who developed the unique sprouting process after studying brain health in India.The brand debuted in March 2020—days before the COVID-19 shutdown—and adapted its launch strategy for a digital-first world.Daily Crunch has since expanded into 6,000+ stores and was named the 13th fastest-growing food and beverage company by Inc.Laurel is a board member of the Upcycled Food Association and a member of EY's Entrepreneurial Winning Women Class of 2024.The brand's mental health mission is personal: Laurel's cousin lost his life to bipolar disorder, inspiring her family to create The Support Network, which Daily Crunch supports financially and publicly.Laurel's experience on Dove's Real Beauty campaign taught her the power of mission-driven marketing and authenticity.The sprouting process transforms the texture of almonds, making them crisp and chip-like while improving digestibility.Product innovation stems from a blend of trend reports, consumer feedback, and Laurel's own flavor instincts—like turmeric & sea salt or Nashville Hot.Collaborations, like their Fly By Jing partnership, are a strategic focus for driving awareness and reaching new audiences.Upcycling ingredients—such as pickle ends from Cleveland Kitchen—helps reduce waste and differentiate flavor profiles.Daily Crunch doesn't lead with its mission, but invites consumers to discover its mental health advocacy as they dig deeper into the brand.  QUOTES “I wanted to launch a brand with a mission that I believed in. Our mission is actually mental health awareness.” (Laurel)“Soaking nuts removes phytic acid, an anti-nutrient, making them more bioavailable, easier to digest and more nutrient dense.” (Laurel)“The crunch is what gets people in. It's lighter, airier, crunchier. Honestly, it's like a chip.” (Laurel)“You're always going to have setbacks. My motto is always two steps forward, one step back.” (Laurel)“We had to throw out 20,000 pounds of almonds and I didn't have the right insurance for it. I almost threw in the towel.” (Laurel)“There's a fine balance between mental and physical health. It all ladders back up to brain health.” (Laurel)“When you see someone in the wild buying your product, it's the best feeling. I was hiding behind a pillar at the airport.” (Laurel)“The savory-sweet combo is really resonating right now. Our last two launches were savory, but you can definitely do both.” (Laurel)

Judy Joo is a classically trained chef, entrepreneur, and television personality whose unconventional journey spans engineering, Wall Street, and the world's top kitchens. She is an Iron Chef, cookbook author, and dynamic force in the food world, celebrated for modernizing and globalizing Korean cuisine.Judy is the founder of Seoul Bird, a Korean fast-casual fried chicken concept with locations in London, New York, Las Vegas, and beyond.Seoul Bird merges bold Korean street food flavors with the speed and scale of modern dining, combining Judy's culinary heritage and operational expertise.Before launching her restaurant empire, Judy trained at the French Culinary Institute, worked in Michelin-starred restaurants like The French Laundry and Gordon Ramsay's empire, and became a recognizable face on Food Network. Seoul Bird is expanding through a strategic mix of franchising and licensing, including high-traffic venues like Citi Field and Edinburgh Airport.Judy left Wall Street to pursue her passion for food, trading finance for the kitchen with zero expectations—just love for cooking.Her engineering and banking backgrounds continue to shape how she designs restaurants and runs operations at scale.As a Korean-American woman in male-dominated fields—finance, engineering, and restaurants—Judy forged ahead with “fearlessness or I just don't care” confidence.She believes “today's invention is tomorrow's tradition,” especially in defining authenticity in global cuisines like Korean fried chicken.Seoul Bird thrives in arenas and airports, offering high-volume, high-flavor experiences with a focus on simplicity, quality, and cultural storytelling.She emphasizes the power of brand building—through books, TV, and food—as key to her business success.Judy finds inspiration everywhere, from grocery store aisles to international travel, always absorbing and evolving her culinary creativity.She's proud to see Korean food embraced globally, transforming from a source of school-lunch embarrassment into a pop-culture phenomenon. QUOTES “I love creating experiences. I love creating meals. I love food. I love the language of food. It is a language of love for me.” (Judy)“I’m going to downgrade my life in every way possible and work weekends and evenings and much longer hours and get paid a fraction of what I was getting paid.” (Judy)“I remember hesitating. Like, which one do I want to do? I was like, oh, math and science is easy for me. I’ll go to engineering school.” (Judy)“If I want to be in these industries where I am the one and only minority, the one and only female, I don't care. I’m going to do it.” (Judy)“A restaurant is a business at the end of the day. You have to know cost control, maximize profits, and understand finance.” (Judy)“I know so many chefs who can't even get their way around an Excel spreadsheet.” (Judy)“Koreans are obsessed with fried chicken. Obsessed. Obsessed.” (Judy)“Today's invention is tomorrow's tradition. Korean fried chicken came from war and evolved. Is it authentic? I think so.” (Judy)“I've gone from being embarrassed about my lunchbox to everybody spamming me, asking, ‘What are they eating? What are they drinking?'” (Judy)“As long as the DNA is there—that makes it Korean.” (Judy)“Television cheffing is much easier. You’re in a nice air-conditioned studio versus burning yourself and dealing with employees.” (Judy)“Every single time I’m in a grocery store, whenever I travel, you’re constantly seeing new things. That’s a huge source of inspiration.” (Judy) 

Denise Woodard is the founder and CEO of Partake Foods. She launched the brand after her daughter was diagnosed with multiple food allergies. A former Coca-Cola executive, Denise became the first Black woman to publicly raise over $1 million for a CPG food startup.Partake Foods creates delicious, allergy-friendly snacks that are free from the top nine allergens. With a mission rooted in inclusivity and accessibility, the brand is now available in over 18,000 stores nationwide and continues to grow through innovation and community impact.The brand's name, “Partake,” reflects Denise's desire for her daughter and others with allergies to fully participate in the joy of food.Denise’s journey began with a pitch competition and a nudge from her nanny, Martha—who now holds equity in the business.Partake has collaborated with major partners like Marvel and Sesame Street, and has donated over one million boxes of cookies to support families in need.The company is deeply involved in social impact initiatives, including work with No Kid Hungry and the Food Equality Initiative.Denise founded Partake to create allergy-safe foods her daughter could enjoy, after struggling to find suitable options in the market.Leaving Coca-Cola, she underestimated how challenging it would be to build a brand from scratch without the resources of a large company.Getting allergy-friendly products manufactured required finding rare, specialized partners willing to work with a startup founder.Her family—especially her daughter—has been central to the business journey, often pitching in during trade shows and events.Denise emphasizes leading with great taste rather than a long list of dietary claims when introducing products to new consumers.Building strong retail partnerships is about follow-through, not just shelf placement—it requires active investment and support.She believes inclusivity should be embedded naturally into company culture, hiring, and investor relationships.To stay energized, Denise now prioritizes time for reflection, creativity, and rest, recognizing the importance of long-term sustainability. QUOTES “I sought out products that she could eat and enjoy safely and that we could eat as a family together and couldn't find the things that I was looking for and decided to do something about it.” (Denise)“I knew enough to be dangerous. I could speak the lingo. I knew the acronyms. I did not realize what I was in for.” (Denise)“There's not very many allergy friendly contract manufacturers. So calling someone up and getting them to agree to work with a woman with an idea was definitely a challenge.” (Denise)“Being an entrepreneur is a family sport. My daughter too, I think about all the sacrifice that she made. She can probably put together a trade show booth faster than most adults.” (Denise)“It feels like a game of whack-a-mole. It's like you think you got one thing covered and then, oh, tariffs or something. Every week there’s a new adventure.” (Denise)“The name Partake originally came from this idea that I wanted my daughter and people with food allergies to be able to partake.” (Denise)“You're nothing if you have a story with no good product. And honestly, the same if you have a good product but nothing to talk about.” (Denise)“I want my employees to feel like they have the freedom to be able to do the same thing because I think this whole idea of separating your personal life and work life isn't healthy for anyone.” (Denise)“I've just started this practice. Making time to think and be inspired—setting out time to journal, to go on walks, to visit grocery stores, to visit small markets.” (Denise)“Food is something that's supposed to evoke positive memories for everyone. And even if you have food allergies, like you should be able to have that same joy.” (Denise)

Stephanie Jaeger is the President of Les Dames d’Escoffier International (LDEI) and a veteran of the restaurant industry with over 35 years of experience. She also serves as a Learning and Development Specialist for the Joey Restaurant Group, where she focuses on training and team culture.LDEI is a global philanthropic organization of women leaders in food, beverage, and hospitality. With over 2,800 members across 42 chapters worldwide, LDEI supports women through scholarships, mentorship, and networking opportunities to elevate and advance their careers.Founded in response to the exclusion of women from the all-male “Friends of Escoffier” society, LDEI has grown into a powerful network that champions leadership, education, and community. Under Stephanie's leadership, the organization is expanding its reach, including new chapters in Mexico and Italy, and launching new initiatives like the M.F.K. Fisher Symposium for Women’s Food and Storytelling.LDEI was born from a desire to give women a seat at the culinary table—where they had previously been excluded—and now supports thousands of members across the globe.Stephanie initially joined LDEI over 20 years ago and, inspired by mentorship and a desire to represent a global voice, rose through the ranks to become its international president.“You have to see it to be it”—Stephanie emphasized the importance of visibility and representation for women in leadership across hospitality and culinary fields.Mentorship is central to LDEI's mission; the organization provides not just scholarships, but ongoing personal support to help women succeed in their careers.While representation at the top is critical, Stephanie believes respect and equality must also be reinforced in everyday kitchen culture and among mid-level staff.LDEI's upcoming M.F.K. Fisher Symposium will spotlight women in food media and storytelling, creating a space for inspiration, connection, and collaboration.Stephanie’s work at Joey Restaurant Group complements her LDEI leadership, allowing her to show women within the organization that there's always a next step in their careers.Despite growth, barriers like unconscious bias and lack of access to education persist in the industry, making LDEI's mission more relevant than ever. QUOTES “I either needed to step up or step aside. So here I am stepping up and excited about it.” (Stephanie)“You have to see it to be it. You have to see somebody in that position, and I would encourage anybody in the industry to put a woman in that leadership position so that somebody younger can see themselves there too.” (Stephanie)“Every time I see a woman in the industry, she’s breaking a barrier. She’s showing that it’s possible. She’s showing me that I can do it too. And every time I see a woman on the Food Network or read about one taking on a leadership role, it's one more reminder that we belong.” (Stephanie)“We need to make sure that women are not only in the kitchen, but treated with respect and equals. It’s not just about being there—it’s about being seen, being supported, and being recognized as just as capable.” (Stephanie)“Mentorship is the ability to talk about your experiences in a positive way—not in a ‘you'll never get there’ way, but ‘look what I've done, and you can too.’ It's not about gatekeeping—it's about opening doors and saying, ‘Come on in, let me show you how I did it.'” (Stephanie)“Asking for help really can come down to just saying, ‘Is this a crazy idea?’ And sometimes you just need someone—man or woman—to say, ‘You’re not crazy’ or ‘Maybe you should rethink that.’ It's about having someone to bounce things off of, someone who listens and understands.” (Stephanie)“I want to raise more money to support more women. I want to get the LDEI name out there more, increase our membership, and reach more women who could benefit from being part of this network. There are so many who just need the opportunity.” (Stephanie)“The restaurant industry really should be fun. Maybe don't take yourself too seriously. You have to be able to smile, to enjoy what you’re doing. And at Joey, we focus on working as a team. That's what creates a cohesive, engaging environment.” (Stephanie)“There is a place for you if you want to keep going up the ladder. And I think because of my own mentors and experiences with LDEI, I'm able to show that to the women I work with every day. Whether they're servers or line cooks, I want them to see that there's a next step.” (Stephanie)

Yanni Hufnagel, a former college basketball coach turned entrepreneur, is the founder and CEO of Lemon Perfect, a fast-growing enhanced water brand. With a background in coaching at top programs like Harvard and Vanderbilt, Hufnagel applied his competitive drive and leadership skills to disrupt the beverage industry with a health-focused, innovative brand.Lemon Perfect is a fast-growing beverage brand redefining the enhanced water category with its refreshing, zero-sugar, lemon-infused drinks. Made from organic lemons and packed with antioxidants and electrolytes, Lemon Perfect delivers great taste and hydration without artificial ingredients, appealing to health-conscious consumers seeking a flavorful, better-for-you alternative.Lemon Perfect offers a lineup of refreshing, zero-sugar, lemon-infused beverages made from organic, hand-picked lemons. Packed with antioxidants, electrolytes, and vitamin C, the brand's flavors include classics like Original Lemon and fan-favorites like Dragon Fruit Mango, Peach Raspberry, and Blueberry Acai. The drinks are cold-pressed, keto-friendly, and designed for guilt-free hydration.Lemon Perfect has rapidly expanded its distribution footprint, securing shelf space in major retailers like Whole Foods, Target, Kroger, Publix, and Costco, while also growing its presence in convenience stores, gyms, and online marketplaces nationwide.Yanni was inspired to create the Lemon Perfect brand in 2017 after a chance encounter with a man who introduced him to drinking organic lemon water each morning as part of his daily routine. Squeezing and juicing lemons each morning was a hassle and Yanni was determined to create a product that took the work out of drinking organic lemon water. Seven years after launching the brand, Lemon Perfect has sold more than 100 million bottles.In early 2020, Beyonce featured a bottle of Lemon Perfect in one of her Instagram posts. It gave the brand a boost. In April 2022, she became a key investor in the brand. QUOTES “So many parallels between coaching and entrepreneurship and running a business. At the core, you're telling a story. Being a great storyteller is probably the most important skill you can have as a recruiter and as a college baseball coach. [As an entrepreneur] being able to tell a story is also important, and it all starts with the product.” (Yanni) “There's a difference between selling and presenting. I've always felt like presenting was more important than selling. I've always tried to present our story and vision and not sell it.” (Yanni) “I was having lunch with an angel investor and I said ‘John, what do you think about this idea?' and he said ‘I love it. Anything you can build that captures a piece of someone's daily routine is worth going for. You can build a business around it.' “ (Yanni) “We've sold 100 million bottles. How do you sell one billion? In America and beyond, they don't read words, they read pictures on packaging. Putting fruit on the (packaging) was a big decision. Simplifying our message.” (Yanni) “We had an incredible entrepreneurial culture for the first five years and then we lost our way a little bit. I've been focused in the last six months or so on refinding our entrepreneurial way. When you're building a beverage and you have to scratch and claw and fight and bleed every day, you need that.” (Yanni) “You have to have a relentless motor and I think we have a group that will do that.” (Yanni)

Eat’n Park is a regional restaurant chain known for its family-friendly atmosphere, classic American comfort food, and iconic Smiley Cookies. Founded in 1949 in Pittsburgh, it offers breakfast, lunch, and dinner, with a focus on fresh, made-to-order meals. The brand emphasizes hospitality, community involvement, and sustainability initiatives.Parkhurst Dining, a division of Eat’n Park Hospitality Group, provides customized dining solutions for universities, corporations, and cultural institutions. With a focus on fresh, locally sourced ingredients and scratch-made meals, Parkhurst emphasizes hospitality, sustainability, and culinary excellence, creating memorable dining experiences tailored to each client's needs.Jeff said the decision to create Parkhurst Dining was rooted in the desire to focus on an industry that they knew well – food. Eat'n Park's FarmSource program, launched in 2002, partners with local farms to source fresh, sustainable ingredients, supporting regional agriculture while delivering high-quality, farm-to-table meals.In 2024, Eat'n Park celebrated its 75th anniversary and has nearly 60 locations in Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia.The restaurant has been a family business since the 1970s. Jeff Broadhurst is the President and CEO of Eat’n Park Hospitality Group. He joined the company in 1996, became President in 2006, and CEO in 2008. Under his leadership, the company has expanded to include multiple dining concepts and emphasizes community engagement and sustainability. Jeff works side-by-side with his brothers, Brooks (Senior Vice President of Food and Beverage) and Mark (Vice President of Corporate Dining & Retail Development).In the midst of COVID, Eat'n Park turned heads by opening a new location in Butler, PA. Jeff called the decision a “leap of faith” but said the decision showed employees and customers that Eat'n Park was strong and focused on growth. Eat'n Park's Smiley Cookies debuted in the 1980s as a way to bring joy to guests, especially children. Originally hand-decorated with bright icing and a signature smile, these cookies quickly became a beloved brand symbol. Today, they are shared nationwide, spreading Eat'n Park's message of kindness and hospitality. QUOTES “There are challenges (with working with family). There are challenges in any business, but there are a lot more positives.” (Jeff) “During COVID it was really nice having family there. Dealing with what we went through. That was the one thing that you really needed people that you trusted and respected and, in many cases, loved.” (Jeff)“When new management comes in I always tell them one thing: You can never have too much fun in the role.” (Jeff) “My mother was always talking about treating people the way you want them to treat you.” (Jeff)“(The Smiley Cookies) are all about creating a smile. That's what it's led into.” (Jeff)“Community involvement is a big part of our culture and a big part of who we are.” (Jeff) “A lot of our focus right now is continuing to invest in the brand – a 75-year-old brand.” (Jeff) “What we have to do in the restaurant industry is anticipating the guest needs. What are they going to want tomorrow, next week, next year?” (Jeff)“A lot of our innovation is about helping our team members have a more rewarding job and career. You can never forget about the importance of our team members.” (Jeff)

UNiTE Food is a Yorba Linda, California-based company that produces globally inspired protein bars. The brand offers unique flavors such as Churro, Mexican Hot Chocolate, and PB & Jelly, aiming to bring diversity to the wellness industry. Each bar provides around 10 grams of protein and is gluten-free, catering to health-conscious consumers seeking both nutrition and nostalgic tastes. Clara often relied on protein bars during her busy career but found the available flavors uninspiring. Drawing from her diverse culinary background, she recognized a gap in the market for culturally diverse flavors. Clara's father is an entrepreneur. Her family immigrated from Sudan when she was five years old. When they arrived in the United States, her father started a plumbing supply distribution business, which is the business Clara worked in earlier in her career. The idea for UNiTE was something Clara started thinking about in 2018 or 2019 while she was still working in her family's plumbing business. She began experimenting with different recipes and products in her kitchen in the early days of the pandemic in 2020.Clara often visits ethnic markets to learn about new flavors for new products. She also studied flavors and what people were eating when she traveled abroad.  QUOTES “If I'm anything, I'm a very curious person. I'm curious about how the world works and I'm curious about why segments of the population aren't being served.” (Clara) “If you focus on your customers, they will reward you with loyalty. And if they reward you with loyalty, your revenue will grow. If you create value, why would somebody leave you?” (Clara)“For me, it was about making sure we were taking care of our customers. That was the winning strategy. It sounds really simple, but it's way harder to execute.” (Clara)“Business is a framework. Once you understand product liability, you understand how to insure against it. You learn about the certifying bodies in your industry. It's hard and it's not (hard).” (Clara)“It's really about building relationships. Mutually beneficial relationships.” (Clara) “When you're over 40 and you created a new business, you're usually not doing it for money, you're doing it to try to make the world a better place.” (Clara)“I wanted to find common ground. Let's find flavors that will resonate with lots of people.” (Clara)“The essence of the UNiTE brand is to seek to understand and seek to find common ground instead of focusing on how we're different.” (Clara)“At the end of the day, consumers want authenticity and they want brands that create products that are meaningful to them. (Clara)“I don't really worry about copycat brands. I worry more when they stop copying me.” (Clara) TRANSCRIPT 00:01.49vigorbrandingAll right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Fork Tales. I’m Michael Pavone. Our guest today is Clara Paye. And I’ve known Clara for a long time. ah She is from Unite Foods. ah Unite’s line of nutritious bars are built around the concept of global flavors, but also comfort foods. Clara has started a brand that’s redefining what protein and nutrition bars can be, and I’m happy to have her as a guest. Clara, welcome. 00:25.55Clara Paye _ UNiTEThanks, Michael. Good to be here. 00:27.85vigorbrandingSo again, I know you, I think pretty well, and I’m excited to excited for this. This will be fun. So um I want to go back. I mean, you have a fascinating story. So before we get into Unite, I want to talk about you. How did you, you know, where where do you come from? Where do you, where did you work? You know, talk a little bit about what got you, got you here. 00:46.86Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, it’s definitely not been a linear path. It’s been really a path led by my own curiosity in the world. And so I think if I’m anything, I’m a very curious person. I’m curious how the world works. I’m curious why, you know, segments of the population aren’t being served. So my journey really started, you know, undergrad, I went to USC and I really went undeclared and thought I but wanted to be a lawyer and. 01:10.72Clara Paye _ UNiTEgot into one political science class and I was like, no, I definitely don’t want to do this. And so kind of was looking around like what else is out there, found the business school at USC, and more importantly, found the entrepreneurship program, which was number one in the nation at the time. And, you know, and I knew I didn’t want to study accounting or finance, and that’s what business was to me in my mind back then. And finding this entrepreneurship route really like kind of opened up the world to me and was like a light bulb. 01:34.45Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know My dad is an entrepreneur. and We immigrated from Africa and the Sudan when I was five years old. And in Africa, he had an automotive parts distribution business. And when he immigrated to the U.S., he started a plumbing manufacturing and hardware distribution business. And so, you know, having a dad that had kind of modeled entrepreneurship, it was demystified for me. And so I was like, oh, that’s really interesting. You know, I’ve been an entrepreneur kind of since I was a little girl, whether, you know, the classic lemonade stand or side popsicles or, you know, drawing pictures and trying to sell them to my aunts. Like, you know, I always had that entrepreneurial 02:07.53Clara Paye _ UNiTEstart and you know funny and but like at USC I remember them taking a poll of all the entrepreneurship kids and how many of them had like a lemonade stand or something similar as a kid and it was like 95% of the class raised their hand right like it’s something almost innate where you know that entrepreneurship bug grabs you was even a little kid and 02:15.32vigorbrandingMm 02:24.37Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so, you know, going into the entrepreneurship program, it was kind of like and equated to like Ted Talks, where you just got to like hear and listen to these really successful entrepreneurs that had launched and they were normal people with good ideas that they just implemented. 02:36.22vigorbrandinghmm. 02:38.93Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I thought I would you know be an entrepreneur straight out of undergrad. I wrote a business plan um and for the apparel industry back then. this is I’ll date myself, but I graduated in 1999 and in 1998, 99. I wrote a business plan for plus size clothing for teenage girls. So I saw that there was this huge segment of the population where kids were kind of, you know, Americans were growing in size. and there weren’t really anything fashionable for young girls to wear if they were plus size. They had to shop, you know, especially in jeans, they had to start in the, you know, shop in the women’s Husky department, women’s department or the boy’s Husky department. And it really wasn’t anything fashionable. And I wrote this great business plan. All my professors told me to do it. And like the only person I knew that had any money was my dad. 03:21.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know, being 21 years old and or, you know, barely 21 and asking him to fund, you know, I needed like $30,000 back then to launch this business. And my I was going to do it with my best friend whose father had just invested in the jeans manufacturing plant. 03:34.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEShe had done the entrepreneurship program the year before. It was like this home run idea. The internet was just coming online and we were going to do it all online. We didn’t need storefronts. You know, we’re kind of kind of revolutionize all of these things. 03:44.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd my dad’s like, what? Huh? Like watch yourself humming products. Yeah. 03:48.78vigorbrandingYeah. 03:50.42Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, this is a business that already exists. And he just didn’t see it, didn’t understand. But it’s it’s ironic that like that business would grow on to be like that segment specifically, um where I did all my research at this mall, like, went on to become a billion dollar business, like Torrid went into the same free mall with the same concept. And so that was kind of like always in the back of my mind, my entire career. So from age 20 to now, like, gosh, like, why I should have done that, like, I should have done something like that, you know, why didn’t I try and um I’m telling a really long part of the story so we can edit this, but it’s really like, you know, for me, it was really about that early experience in entrepreneurship that I held on to, but then I would go on. 04:22.93vigorbrandingOh, it’s great. 04:29.89Clara Paye _ UNiTEand work in cosmetics, worked for advertising agencies, you know, um and then eventually my dad lured me into the family business, which was like, you know, about five years after college, I wanted to get my MBA and he said, hey, I’ll make you a deal. You and your best friend want to come work for me, get your and MBAs and I’ll pay for them. And you just have to stay the time that you’re studying. And, you know, we did this executive MBA program where we worked our nine to five and then we went to school from like six to 10. 04:53.31Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd those are long days, but they were really fun because I got to take what I was learning in the MBA program and immediately apply it to my family business, which was, again, the plumbing and hardware distribution business. And so not that I was in love with plumbing and hardware, like, trust me, if I never see another supply line in my life, it’ll be too soon. But um it was really about this unique experience that I got to learn and apply, learn and apply. And it was just Really? um Really what set me up for like, you know in that curiosity to like really make an impact in my family business Where you know, sometimes when you join a family business you get told well, this is how we’ve always done it So this is why you have to do it this way and for me I got to kind of redefine everything Because of this MBA program that I was doing and my dad trusted, you know, he always had a high regard for education And so was like, okay. Well, yeah, let’s try it and really got you know got in and 05:45.11vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. i mean You bring up a really interesting point, though. Being a so a sibling of an entrepreneur, you you kind of do realize, or you maybe you don’t realize that it’s it’s not easy, but you you know it’s it’s doable, right? If you watch your father do it, like my father had a couple small sporting goods stores. So I thought, well, if you want to start a business, you just go out and start it. You just do it. and You know, my story is I’ve never been smart enough to know what I can’t do. So I’m like, Oh yeah, I can do that. And just, you know, and sometimes you pass, sometimes you fail, but you know, it’s like, Oh, I can try that. Oh yeah, I’ll do that. So, but, but I think our parents really do make it easier for us if they’ve done that, you know, and you sort of, I don’t want to say you take it for granted, but it’s sort of like, it seems doable. It seems attainable, you know, and next thing you know, you you’ve got something special. And I’ll say this, it had to be interesting, difficult, and maybe very educational for you. 06:34.52vigorbrandingah being a young woman in and the and the plumbing supply distribution business. I mean, what was that like? 06:40.78Clara Paye _ UNiTEah You know, it was it’s a very old industry. It’s you know very much like there’s very little product innovation. And so for me, being a curious person, I was always trying to learn. I always wanted to go to like plumbing school. So like I could like learn about the products a little bit more because they’re actually really complex. And if you ever go down a hardware store aisle and you go down the plumbing fittings or the plumbing section, I mean, there’s literally thousands and thousands of SKUs and so many different parts to like toilets and you know faucets and it’s it’s a very confusing um you know you have to have like a lot of deep knowledge in the industry to really make an impact so for me you know i knew i was never going to have that right what i could bring to the table was really an outside the box way of thinking about this industry like you know we created the company’s first website and started selling you know online and really trying to 07:28.80Clara Paye _ UNiTEUm, quantify customer experience, right? Like it wasn’t just about like place, you know, filling orders. It was like, what was the experience of that order for your customer? And so I’ve always been a customer centric leader. So I think it’s because I came up through marketing and entrepreneurship. You know, I really care about the customer and I really care about like the person that’s opening the box, whatever that box is, you know, and so. 07:51.58Clara Paye _ UNiTEFor me, it was all about aligning the business to be customer-focused, because my thesis was, if you focus on your customers, they will reward you with loyalty. And if they reward you with loyalty, your revenue will grow. 08:01.84Clara Paye _ UNiTEright It’s a win-win. 08:02.46vigorbrandingmean 08:03.15Clara Paye _ UNiTEIf you create value, why would somebody leave you? So it’s when you’re not creating value and you’re creating problems for the customer that you know you have that attrition. 08:13.25Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so for me, it was really about um making sure that we were taking care of our customers. And and that was the winning strategy. I mean, it sounds really simple, but it’s way harder to execute when you get to scale. 08:26.05vigorbrandingThat’s great. I mean, it makes total sense. So basically, you do all your own plumbing now, is that what you’re saying? 08:31.81Clara Paye _ UNiTEnot at all 08:32.01vigorbrandingYeah, I knew about it. Okay, so now let’s jump into something that I know you’re very proud of and should be. the that You founded Unite, okay? and And so let’s talk about that. You founded in March of 2020, right? 08:44.85vigorbrandingIn the middle of that thing called the pandemic with COVID. um but Obviously, that was a part of the story. That’s what sort of infused the story. Can you talk a little bit about that? 08:53.69Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah. So, you know you know, I’d been ideating on it for like probably a year and a half before that and really trying, you know, it was working in the plumbing business at my, you know, and the family business that I was kind of like stuck behind my desk. And especially when I became a mom, like I was always just like looking for quick fuel to get me through my day. And that was like kind of when I had the epiphany for Unite and really our main point of differentiation is that we use global flavors. 09:15.38Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so I had this unique experience, again, just just like the plus sized clothing where I was like, wait a minute, like there’s this whole population of people out there, like half the population are immigrants, people like me, or people that are just like really interested in other cultures and really interested in other foods. 09:31.28Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, I live in LA, like there’s, you can eat Thai, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, whatever you want, any time of day you want, you know, it’s all, you know, and that’s what makes America unique is that we are this melting pot of cultures. 09:38.69vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. 09:42.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd it very similarly, I saw this demographic shift where, you know, America was just going to continue to grow in, in multiculturalism. And so I was like, okay, if you’re in wellness and you are diagnosed with something like for me, it was a gluten intolerance. Like, and you go and try to find diet compliant food and you go to the shelf and like nothing resonates with you. Like that’s a huge miss. And so I think it was because 10:08.08vigorbrandingbut 10:08.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, i I’m not, everybody that has created protein bars up to that point wasn’t diverse, didn’t have the life experience I had. So I just kind of used my own life experience it to develop it. 10:18.38Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I developed them in my kitchen, like really, like, you know, as I got my cuisine on out and was like, what would I put in my protein bars? And for me, it was like almond butter and dates and, you know, let’s sweeten it with all natural things. 10:25.68vigorbrandingMm hmm. 10:28.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I i can’t use sugar, alcohols or Stevia. Like I i just, they’re not palatable to me. So I just use natural things. and literally googled what do nutritionists say should be in a protein bar and like made those my macros like it’s not that hard you know you don’t have to like spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to figure it out and um created my first recipes and found a co-packer to make them and I knew you know because I didn’t want any food liability I wanted a really strong co-packer to be the producer for them found one that ah you know where they saw the vision they understood what we were about and supported us and got our product launched and 11:05.31Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, Expo West was this trade show, you know, it was a trade show in the food industry. It’s the largest natural products convention in the entire world. And if anybody hasn’t been to it, just imagine seven convention centers all smashed together in Anaheim, hundreds of thousands of people, like 3000 plus exhibitors. It’s literally and figuratively like Disneyland. Like it’s just, it’s a zoo. It’s, there’s so many people. And we got our little 10 by 10 booth and at the, you know, they have this like new products part of natural expo that opens a day before or used to. 11:35.43Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd we got our booth set up and we were ready to rock. 11:37.30vigorbrandingMm hmm. 11:37.51Clara Paye _ UNiTEWe were going to go show our bars. We had this whole warehouse full of new bars to show buyers. 11:39.71vigorbrandingand 11:41.83Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd that’s how it’s going to get people excited. And then the pandemic. And that was the first thing to get canceled. And literally we got this call like shows not going to happen. So break down your booth. 11:51.86Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd you know, and it was like such a wild time. 11:52.43vigorbrandingYep. 11:55.64Clara Paye _ UNiTEum And people were really, you know, unsure of what was going to happen. And, you know, ah brands were not able to get into stores to pitch or any buyers, everything kind of went on hold because every grocery store was worried about safety for their employees and how to keep cleaning products on shelf and Lysol wipes. 12:13.52Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like nobody was really thinking about like protein bars, right? 12:16.49vigorbrandingRight, right. 12:16.43Clara Paye _ UNiTELike we’re all trying to, you know, that’s what like, I think we all were baking banana bread every day in this power now and like, you know, consoling ourselves with chips and margaritas at, you know, noon. so 12:26.31vigorbrandingYeah. Well, I remember like for us, I mean, you know, one of my companies is Quench, which is a CPG food and beverage. I said, you know, COVID was truly the greatest sampling program in the face of the earth, food and beverage. If you made a product at that time, if you had an established product, you people bought it, people ate it, they put in their pantry, they stacked in their shells. I mean, it was phenomenal time for food. I mean, unfortunately, it was you were too new, right? You couldn’t even take advantage of it. You didn’t even get a chance to get out of the starting gate. so That’s how to be extremely disappointing. But I think it’s amazing too. Like, okay, so you you come from one industry and and you learn a lot just in business and dealing with people from one industry. But then you you applied to this startup that you didn’t, you’ve never really, you were never in the food business. So you don’t learn how to be a manufacturer, you had to learn about safety, you had to learn about ingredients, legal and and everything and anything. I mean, it’s just, ah it’s an amazing undertaking. How did you how did you learn so much? 13:21.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, like business is a framework. So once you understand product liability, you understand how to ensure against it, right? And you learn that, you know, you have to look, what are the certifying bodies in your industry, right? 13:35.40Clara Paye _ UNiTELike in, you know, for electrical companies, it’s like UL listing, you know, in food, it’s SQF. 13:35.85vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm. 13:40.84Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd it’s not like the information isn’t that hard to find. So I think it’s like, you know, once you have a framework of, it’s, you know, the product is a widget almost, right? Like how you deal with Lowe’s is how you deal with Target. 13:49.40vigorbrandingMm 13:52.55Clara Paye _ UNiTELike it’s a big box. 13:52.83vigorbrandinghmm. 13:53.59Clara Paye _ UNiTEThey care about many of the same things, right? You have to understand what’s going to happen on the back end of your business. You have to understand how to get that product there on time and in full. And that’s what matters to them. 14:04.49Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so I, you know, it’s hard and it’s not. And so for me, I’ve always really relied on my network, Michael, like, like if I don’t know the answer, I know somebody that I know must know the answer. 14:16.44vigorbrandingMm hmm. 14:17.09Clara Paye _ UNiTESo I spent a lot of time. I don’t want to say networking, but I think it’s really about building relationships, like mutual like mutually beneficial relationships with people, trust. 14:26.75vigorbrandingSure, trust. 14:29.50Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd when I got into the food space, I was like, I just need to great advisors around me. I need people. 14:33.78vigorbrandingMm hmm. 14:33.82Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd I didn’t want like consultants. I wanted people who were also running their businesses, who were going in the trenches, doing it with in in real time. 14:38.08vigorbrandingSure. Skin the game. Yep. 14:41.79Clara Paye _ UNiTEand so you know, having a ah YPO forum of YPO, you know, food CPG people was like one of the ways that I accomplished that and like really creating a forum of people around me that were doing the same things as I was. 14:50.42vigorbrandingMm 14:56.01Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd, you know, there’s a lot of symbiotic um experience there. And we all got to go through COVID together. So it was something I did early on, you know, it was like grabbing people who wanted to go on this journey with me. 15:02.72vigorbrandinghmm. Mm hmm. 15:06.56Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so, You know you’re I think networking is like kind of like a bad word sometimes like people think it’s like you’re using people when you say networking but you’re doing networking right you’re actually at creating value for other people first right and that out it works. 15:13.24vigorbrandingwho yeah 15:20.16vigorbrandingThat’s right. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. So now let’s talk. You created the, the you had a product, you you got shut down and covered. So let’s talk about the Unite name. You created a brand and I’m a big brand guy, you know that. I love brands and and I love what you did here. I love the name and I’m not just saying that because you’re here, but this is something I did not know. I read an article and I read about the I in Unite. I should have looked and realized that the lowercase I, but to talk about the brand and how you came up with the name. 15:45.47Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah, I mean, so for me is all about that what I was trying to do. So this is like the mission part of like this journey when like you’re over 40 and you’re creating new business. Usually you’re not doing it just for money. You’re really doing it because you feel like something’s missing in the world and you want to make the world a better place. At least that’s my journey. 16:01.60Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd for me, it was like, how can I use food as this instrument of inclusion to improve the lives of people, see people who haven’t been seen, welcome them into wellness, right? And kind of create cultural bridges, right? Where like somebody who I think food is has this unique way of binding people, right? Like it’s the cultural equivalent of bringing your, you know, 16:23.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEyour dish to a potluck and like you know kind of like do you like it you know kind of like yeah having that like you know there’s a moment where you’re like are you sure it’s kind of a little strange or like you know when when people used to come to my home and like be like you know my mom made this thing you don’t have to eat it it’s you know you might not like it and then people loving it and you’re like oh Okay, it’s good. Like it’s safe. Like everyone’s accepted now. And so I think for me, it was like how, you know, food can, can also divide people. But if people make fun of somebody’s food or make fun of flavors, you know, and I think it also can unite. And so I wanted to use it as like, you know, let’s, let’s find common ground. Let’s find flavors that like will resonate with lots of people. And so like the flavors we choose typically are not just like country specific. They’re like region specific. 17:04.98Clara Paye _ UNiTESo like, you know, churros are eaten in Spain, in Mexico, and like all over Latin America, right? Baklava is eaten in North Africa, in Greece, in Russia, in Croatia, right? 17:15.03Clara Paye _ UNiTEBubble tea, which sounds like just an Asian, Asian flavor. And yes, it was born in Taiwan, but you know, like but the British drink milk with tea. the in Indian people drink milk with tea, and the Middle East drink milk with tea. 17:25.54Clara Paye _ UNiTELike those flavors are, can resonate with lots of different people. 17:29.23vigorbrandingYeah. 17:29.53Clara Paye _ UNiTESo, and then there’s peanut butter and jelly, and that’s the one where people are like, 17:31.64vigorbrandingYeah. 17:32.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEhuh like you know that’s like that’s not global but it’s like my american heritage is just as important and so i want all people to feel represented and the reason the eye is small and as i think because if you’re trying to connect two sides you yourself have to get smaller to understand the other side and so that you you know to understand the other you know and we live in such a time of division and so like really having a name like unites like it’s really the essence of the brand 17:37.39vigorbrandingyeah 17:58.39Clara Paye _ UNiTEis to, you know, ah seek to understand and seek to find common ground and instead of like how we’re different. 18:05.96vigorbrandingI love it. i mean You obviously have a propensity for for marketing. it’s it’s It’s very smart and very sound, the thinking behind it. and and I’ve had the products that are fantastic. and again I’m not just saying that they’re your your products are absolutely delicious, so you should be very, very proud of that. 18:21.31vigorbrandingum you know and now So we talk about the flavors, so ah we do a food trends presentation every year and we always come up with all these funky flavors and and we we I shouldn’t say funky, we we we learn about things that are popping in different parts of the world and starting to you know bubble up and and and ah you know we we try to grab onto them, I mean all of us as manufacturers, as restaurants, as ah marketers And we try to understand these flavors and how to bring them forth and and introduce something fresh. how do How do you go about finding flavors? How do you go about deciding what the next flavor is going to be? 18:54.83Clara Paye _ UNiTEit’s really intuitive for me but like you know my my hero flavor is churro and like that one was really you know born out of you know I live near Disneyland I live like 15 minutes away and I have small kids and so we were always at Disneyland always the line at the churro cart was kind of like around the corner right and like churro was like definitely this very familiar flavor and like churros are you know they’re eaten they’re They’re not just different for different sake. Many people have had a churro, whether it’s at a fair or at Disneyland or at a carnival. Churro was like not that um outside the box for most people, and it was very approachable. and so like That Disneyland car, just like looking at the lines, I was like, yeah, that could be a really good flavor. How come nobody you know hasn’t really done that? and then 19:44.35Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know, I would visit ethnic markets a lot to look at the flavors. 19:47.44vigorbrandingSure. 19:47.62Clara Paye _ UNiTESo I go to Hispanic markets, I go to Korean markets, I go to Japanese markets, you know, I live in an area again, where I’m blessed by diversity. And so I study, you know, when I travel, what are people eating? 19:59.01Clara Paye _ UNiTEWhat, you know, what are people, you know, what do people enjoy? And I really, I mean I the first flavors are really like things that I loved so I just wanted to create things you know flavors and then I tested them on my friends and I probably Michael I probably made like 15 or 20 different flavors before I started right like and kind of like chose the heroes from um the ones that I made and in my kitchen. 20:17.81vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Now, is there one that you you loved and thought, oh, everyone’s gonna love this and didn’t make it? Is there a flavor that you kind of, what is it? 20:26.76Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah it was a ah green tea matcha 20:30.55vigorbrandingUh-uh. 20:30.44Clara Paye _ UNiTEflavor and so but green tea powder sometimes can be fishy and it’s like sounds so weird but like it just didn’t work in in scale right and so and there are macho bars out there but I never think that they taste great and so you know I wanted it to have like good product integrity and so like that was like a 20:35.42vigorbrandingOkay. 20:39.37vigorbrandingNot it. 20:45.81vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 20:48.56Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know, one that like I thought would be, you know, cause if you, if you look at the Starbucks menu, like ah so many, you know, those, those are great flavor cues too. Like, you know, Starbucks spends a lot of time in flavor development. And so you can just, you can take cues from adjacent industries. 21:01.68vigorbrandingSure. We got to work with a lot over the years ah through Quench. We worked with the Hershey Company and we worked with the scientists. And I was always blown away because we’d go in the, and back, this would be like early 90s, we’d go in these rooms or they’d have to swipe a card for the door to open. It seemed very like, 21:17.81vigorbrandingUh, sign sci-fi, you know, and it would it be lab technicians and they’d put drops and they’d be like, here, taste that. What does it taste like? I’m like, well, I taste apple pie. They’re like, wait for it. I’m like, Oh, I taste whipped cream. Wait for it. Oh, I can not taste crust. Like they could do this. I mean, it was like better living through chemistry. They could do all this stuff. 21:36.54vigorbrandingand what it came down to obviously was and this is what is so hard with what you do is now you have to source the ingredients now you have to make sure it’s not a chemical thing and then you have to understand can you can you afford that flavoring at a price point that will be palatable to the consumer so there’s so much involved in all of what you do yeah 21:56.81Clara Paye _ UNiTEThere is so much like, look, all business is hard, but the food business is particularly hard, right? Because you’re, it’s a living, breathing thing, right? And for me, it came down to simplicity. Like I always wanted simple ingredients um because I wanted people to be able to understand what was going into the bar, right? Like I wanted it to be real food and natural. And um so when you have those kinds of like, 22:22.56Clara Paye _ UNiTEBarriers, you know, it’s it helps you and it hurts you right? Like I can’t put in a bunch of processing You know like many large companies can because that’s not the brand value that I’m trying to create or the kind of product I’m trying to create. 22:30.08vigorbrandingRight. Mhm. 22:34.50Clara Paye _ UNiTESo yeah, it’s very hard um You know, we do get a lot of those scientists taking pictures at our booth every year at all the Expos and so people and we have been copied, you know and that’s like just anytime you’re successful at something people are gonna copy you and so 22:45.84vigorbrandingSure. Mhm. 22:50.21Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut I think at the end of the day, consumers want authenticity. They want you know brands that are creating products that are meaningful to them and will reward those brands. So I don’t really worry about like copycats. I worry more about when they stop copying me. 23:07.91vigorbrandingbut you know and But to your point, and you know weve we’ve been doing a food trends report for over 15 years, and what you are doing and and how you’re doing it is very on trend. It’s not easy. It’s not inexpensive. i mean it’s ah it’s ah you know you there’s you could You could have cut corners along the way on your product, but you don’t do that. I just think that that’s going to pay dividends in the long run. i think that’s such a It’s hard to stick to your ethos, but I think you do a fantastic job of that. so I think it’s something to be proud of. and so and My next thing is, I did not know this, but the I in Unite stands for invite. and I did not realize on the back of every bar there’s an email address that you can people can send directly to you for suggestions on new flavors. Have you have you learned anything from these? Have you gotten anything interesting in the emails? 23:52.30Clara Paye _ UNiTEYes, I love those emails, like those emails come to me. And so I get to interact with the people that write those emails. And, you know, the most meaningful ones are when people will give me a flavor suggestion, but then they’ll also say, thank you for making a bar for us. 24:07.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, thank you. And it’s exactly what I wanted to do. 24:09.63vigorbrandingThat’s super cool. 24:10.64Clara Paye _ UNiTEwhen I, when I set out was like, make the invisible feel seen. 24:12.05vigorbrandingYeah. 24:14.77Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd you know, I know what it’s like to not feel seen. You know, I know what it’s like to like, kind of be in the shadows, like being a woman in the plumbing industry. Perfect example, right? Like you don’t really belong here or you don’t like, you know, somebody that looks like me typically doesn’t work in plumbing, right? 24:29.33Clara Paye _ UNiTElike It’s a very old, old, you know, antiquated kind of industry. And so like when I get those emails, I get really excited and people do have some great ideas and ideas of like things that we’ve actually developed, you know, and just haven’t launched. And, you know, so it’s fun to know that like, it is also on trend for people. 24:49.00vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. So I mean, ah um I’m being italian Italian. My wife’s Greek. So yeah, yeah, her mother makes us baklava. So it’s phenomenal. So I love that. I’m really proud to see that you have a baklava in your in your flavors. So you have you have baklava, you have peanut butter and jelly, you have chiro, bubble tea, Mexican hot chocolate. What’s your what’s your favorite? 25:09.34Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, it’s like asking me which my favorite kid is. 25:12.05vigorbrandingah We all have one. 25:11.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEum i and I mean, is our hero. 25:12.61vigorbrandingCome on. We all have one. On any given day, we all have one. A favorite kid. 25:18.32Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd churro was like the first bar where I was like, okay, we really have something. 25:19.02vigorbrandingUh-huh. That’s the baby. 25:21.72Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah. But I really also very much like baklava. And it’s similar to churro in that, you know, it’s got kind of like some of the the same kind of spices with the cinnamon. 25:28.18vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 25:29.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut baklava has never been done outside of baklava. 25:31.48vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 25:32.33Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, think about it, Michael. Like, you’ve never seen a baklava ice cream. You’ve never seen a baklava cracker. 25:35.23vigorbrandingNope. 25:36.56Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, you’ve never seen a baklava popcorn. Right? Like it was very unique. 25:40.80vigorbrandingYeah. 25:41.16Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd, you know, when I, before I launched, you know, many of the, the manufacturing partners I met with in the beginning were like, these price flavors are too strange. Like nobody’s going to buy these and like to be, you know, have come full circle and and be like, no, they’re great. 25:54.00Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like Baklava just won a good housekeeping award this year when they’re, you know, best snack award. Churro won the same award last year. 25:59.19vigorbrandingAwesome. 26:00.98Clara Paye _ UNiTESo it’s like, it’s incredibly validating when, you know, people. like like the product and like, you know, um appreciate it. And it’s got organic honey in it. It’s just really tasty bar. 26:12.34vigorbrandingThat’s great. Well, like I said, you’re the products are amazing. And in a way, I like i look at these flavors and in a way they are they’re kind of all comfort foods, too, right? I mean, they’re, they’re, yeah, they’re all international flavors, but they’re almost like international comfort flavors, you know, it just it kind of feels that way. 26:28.40Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, they’re nostalgic flavors. 26:30.16vigorbrandingYeah. 26:30.11Clara Paye _ UNiTESo they’re foods that you ate in childhood. 26:32.21vigorbrandingRight. 26:32.26Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so that was also really important to me. That was also one of the barometers is like childhood flavors. 26:36.76vigorbrandingPerfect. 26:38.45Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd ironically, I mean, I didn’t develop these for kids, but like kids love our bars and like, duh, they’re childhood flavors, right? Like they’re really for adults, but you know, so we’ve had this like wide range of like consumer interest in our, in our products. And so for me, it’s like about taking you back to kind of like a simpler time. I think, you know, health food specifically is sometimes punitive. Like, Oh, I don’t really like this mushroom powder, but I’m going to drink it because like, i my you know, my, 27:03.59Clara Paye _ UNiTEpodcast said that I’m going to get muscles if I drink it. you know and I’m like more on the other side of wellness. We’re like, let’s make it fun and let’s make it like food you want to eat, not food you have to eat. 27:09.80vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. All right. Well, let’s have some fun here. So, you know, being the research guys that we are and the marketing guys where we came up with our own flavors. So we decided to go around the world. I want your opinion on if these are going to be winners or not. So we’ll start in India, a gulab jambu. It’s very popular dessert. It’s often served during celebrations. It’s fried dough soaked in a rosewater syrup, often garnished with almonds and cashews. 27:40.04Clara Paye _ UNiTE10 out of 10. I think that would like a home run flavor. I’ve actually, you know, my Indian friends have also suggested ah exact flavor and it’s always kind of been in my mind. 27:45.01vigorbrandingYeah. 27:48.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEThe rosewater is the one that’s like, can be polarizing. So, you know, we try to have things that are like, you know, broad appeal, but yeah, I think 10 out of 10 would be a great flavor. 27:57.57vigorbrandingPlus, I’ll say this, I hate to be the total American here, but pronunciation can also be a barrier to people buying something if they can’t if they can’t figure out how to say it. 28:04.52Clara Paye _ UNiTEFor now, right? 28:06.08vigorbrandingAll right, now we’ll head to Spain, a creamy caramel flan. 28:09.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEI love flan and I think flan is another one of those foods that’s mistaken for like just Latin Americans because lots of people eat flan or you know it’s called sometimes creme caramel it’s called like different things in other regions of the world you know so yeah another great flavor you guys are good at this don um don’t start a bar company Michael. 28:15.09vigorbrandingMm hmm. 28:26.72vigorbrandingyeah Yeah, yeah. We would never if we, you know, they’re yours. These are all yours if you want to do them. So you have some friends, we have some employees in Brazil. So um Bolo de Rolo. It’s a light sponge cake. It’s rolled up with a layer of tangy guava jam. 28:43.47Clara Paye _ UNiTEThis one I’ve never heard of, I’ve never had. 28:45.94vigorbrandingright 28:46.23Clara Paye _ UNiTEI’ve not not been to Brazil, so it really piqued my interest. I love guavas. I think tropical fruits, you know, we see that in beverage now. 28:54.85vigorbrandingRight. 28:55.48Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, there’s all kinds of great beverages that have popped up with tropical fruit flavors. 28:56.09vigorbrandingMm hmm. 29:00.70Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd definitely in terms of what global flavor trends, guava I think is still underrated because I love guavas. 29:04.97vigorbrandingMm hmm. 29:07.99Clara Paye _ UNiTESo yeah, I think, you know, it’d be interesting to to get the um the sponge cake kind of consistency in a bar because bars tend to be a little bit drier and a little bit harder to to make soft because water stability issues. 29:20.76Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut I think that’s super intrigued. I want to go to Brazil, so that’s on my list. 29:24.27vigorbrandingYeah, there you go. There’s an excuse for R and&D. It’s a write-off. um you know Yeah, it’s ah that that’s that’s that’s fun. OK, so we go to Italy ah for some almond biscotti. 29:37.61Clara Paye _ UNiTEI mean, I love biscotti, but I think if you’re craving biscotti, eat a biscotti. 29:41.08vigorbrandingYeah, I agree. 29:41.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know 29:42.08vigorbrandingYeah, I don’t think that works in a bar, right? 29:43.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, you know like people tell me, like oh, you should make a hummus flavored bar. I’m like, what? Why don’t you just eat hummus? 29:49.24vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. 29:50.94Clara Paye _ UNiTEyou know For me, it’s about taking some things. Because biscotti is not unhealthy, like typically. like you know If you had one, it’s like it’s fine. 29:55.05vigorbrandingNo. 29:57.11Clara Paye _ UNiTEIt’s like a treat. So I typically try to take like higher calorie, higher density things to make them healthy and approachable. 30:02.75vigorbrandingoh 30:05.67vigorbrandingYeah, you’re you’re almost bringing a dessert together to a degree, right? 30:05.58Clara Paye _ UNiTEso i probably Exactly. 30:08.59vigorbrandingYeah. 30:08.51Clara Paye _ UNiTEa 30:09.42vigorbrandingYeah, that totally makes sense. And you know what’s funny? You you just said something that that really kind of stuck with me. though The beverage industry does do a lot of flavors. And it’s really kind of accelerated. I mean, as a company, we were early on with with flavored beverages in the tea category. 30:24.27vigorbrandingAnd we were we had a brand that we worked with for like 15 years. We helped build what’s called Turkey Hill Iced Tea. Excuse me. And it was the first refrigerated tea. a lot of There was teas out there that were shelf-stable, but we were in the refrigerator. Well, the proliferation now of beverages in the refrigerator. You go to a convenience store with just walls of beverages. So there’s a lot of unique flavorings that you see popping up. And I guess that’s that would be a good place to see, I don’t know, what’s acceptable, right? like what are what are What are consumers interested in? 30:53.61Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah, I think um it’s a good, again, like I got to take a lot of flavor cues from like a Starbucks or like, you know, what are people drinking? 31:01.08vigorbrandingyeah 31:02.11Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like, what are the flavor cues in beverage that we can borrow from, right? Or we that can inform some of us. I think in beverage, it’s a little bit easier because the flavoring is just like props added to something versus like you’re trying to really create something authentic in food. 31:13.60vigorbrandingYeah, yep, yep. 31:19.97Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut gosh, I’m just happy I have a shelf stable product. Like I can’t imagine distributing a refrigerated or frozen product. 31:25.52vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, yeah. 31:26.11Clara Paye _ UNiTELike knowing what I know now, it’s like just a whole nother level of of anxiety. 31:30.73vigorbrandingYeah, well in flavoring to own on that side is it’s amazing how if you had some foot, it’s not obvious as a flavor to like what happened to potato chips, right? So we have a snack food category of snack foods. I mean, adding just a new flavor a new fun. It’s it’s amazing how much velocity you get and how much traction we actually did it across the tuna category. 31:49.35vigorbrandingAnd you would think, you know, tuna, we started adding sriracha or different types of hot or or or Thai chili or, I mean, just all these kind of unique flavors. 31:54.20Clara Paye _ UNiTEMm 31:57.94vigorbrandingAnd it’s amazing how it can really ah get you more more ah shelf presence. 31:59.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEhmm. 32:03.65vigorbrandingAnd it also then, ah it creates ah an atmosphere of trial. So it’s ah’s it’s an awful lot of fun for that too. So um so as an entrepreneur who who’s growing and developing a brand that’s still a relatively young brand, ah you just created it four years ago. 32:17.34vigorbrandingWhat are some of your biggest challenges? 32:20.85Clara Paye _ UNiTEIt’s sad to say, Michael, but like there’s a lot of predatory behavior for emerging brands in the food space, right? 32:26.57vigorbrandinghe 32:26.47Clara Paye _ UNiTEWhere I think this industry like depends on the turn to a certain degree of like brands to fail, to come in to shoot their shot. And like when they fail, it doesn’t matter because there’s like so many other brands behind them trying to get in that same shelf space. 32:39.58Clara Paye _ UNiTESo I think it’s just being the underdog. like If you look at the shelves that we’re on, we’re competing with behemoths, right? Like billion dollar brands, multi-billion dollar brands, like that control the entire food supply. 32:48.42vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm. 32:51.38Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd we’re like on the same shelf and like, how can we actually compete to build brand awareness? Like, you know, so you just do it with a radical authenticity. You do it by creating value for the consumer, creating something different, creating a better product. 33:05.17Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut it’s really like having come from a larger company where like, you know, you have some kind of street cred because you are a larger and you’re eight It’s easier to grow a larger company, but to grow from scratch has been like humbling. 33:17.69Clara Paye _ UNiTElike it’s There’s a lot of people who want to put their hand in your pocket, who want to you know take advantage of you, and you have to be astute. 33:18.13vigorbrandingYeah. 33:24.66Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd again, you have to surround yourself with people that are smart, that will help you avoid the landline, help you clear those paths. but You know, I, um, I also started, um, a nonprofit called included for, you know, people of color in food CPG just because I feel very passionately it’s called included included CPG, um, for people to kind of like not make the same mistakes that I made or kind of try to pull it forward somehow by clearing the path for, you know, I don’t want people to, you know, make the mistakes that we, we’ve made or could have potentially made. 33:49.99vigorbrandingMm hmm. 33:56.73vigorbrandingMm hmm. That’s you’ve you’ve always been one to give back. And I think that’s very admirable. I mean, we were walking around. It was it was it this we were just talking about with the included CPG. 34:09.40vigorbrandingWe were walking around. He was exposed. You had a special section and they they they don’t you had them donate space. What was that for? 34:16.71Clara Paye _ UNiTEum Yes for emerging brands and no for included and so we do do that at the fancy food show and at Expo West every year and so we kind of run kind of a mini incubator accelerator For these brands and help them get that space and be ready to pitch and you know, you have to be market ready So it’s not like for a brand that’s like pre-launch it’s like, you know if you have some kind of like established brand presence and really hoping to elevate them to the next level because those trade shows are so expensive and it’s so primitive and so anything that we can do to 34:18.69vigorbrandingOh, OK. 34:43.19vigorbrandingYeah. 34:46.50Clara Paye _ UNiTELevel the playing field to like help an emerging brand win is like I just it just lights me up I like it makes me so happy because These are the people improving the food systems. 34:57.16Clara Paye _ UNiTEThese are the people that are bringing healthy Products to market. 34:57.35vigorbrandingRight. 35:01.02Clara Paye _ UNiTEThese are the people who are you know, taking their family recipes and trying to share them with the world 35:06.90vigorbrandingWell, I mean, I admire you because you’re able to, I could see you walking into those shows and asking for them to give you all this space. And I know how you are. You do with a smile, but you’re pretty emphatic and I’m sure you always get your way. 35:19.64vigorbrandingCause I know I sit in meetings with you and when I’m, and when I miss a meeting, I have to answer to you, but you do with a smile, but you always hold people accountable and you get what you want. And I do respect that. So sure. 35:29.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEWell, I mean, it’s been a great partnership with New Hope and the Specialty Food Association. And it just, it aligns with their value. So they actually are great partners. And so it’s a, you know, and it’s a team. It’s not just me. There’s like five other founders on the leadership team have included. So, you know, we, we are really working hard to improve um the food systems. 35:51.19vigorbrandingwhat So what ah what do a lot of these folks, i mean thankfully they have you ah to sort of open up the door for them, literally to bring them into the into these shows. so like What do you see a mistake made by ah want to be entrepreneurs? what What do they do wrong? Or what do what do you think and in the brand creation process? What do you what do what do you think that they they do wrong a lot? 36:11.05Clara Paye _ UNiTEI mean, it’s probably something we did wrong too, but it’s like trying to pretend you’re a big brand when you’re not, right? Like, yes, you can get on that shelf, but are you ready? Can you support it the same way a big brand does? 36:20.43vigorbrandingMmhmm. 36:22.89Clara Paye _ UNiTEDo you know all the levers to pull, right? 36:24.66vigorbrandingMmhmm. 36:25.09Clara Paye _ UNiTElike And it’s hard to say, like, it’s hard when the opportunity knocks not to take it, right? 36:30.71vigorbrandingSure. 36:31.30Clara Paye _ UNiTESo it’s like that discipline of knowing, you know, What is the actual contribution margin of this account? And, you know, is it just like, or does it accomplish something else? So I think it’s like biting off a little bit more than you can chew. 36:44.02Clara Paye _ UNiTEum And then the one that I pay attention very closely to is quality. I think quality can sink your company so fast. You know, one quality issue, one copacker issue, one whatever issue. 36:53.05vigorbrandingyeah 36:54.04Clara Paye _ UNiTESo if you’re not paying attention to your product, you know, so closely, um that can really be a landmine because you can always create more brands. But you know, if your brand name is like tainted, it’s hard for you. 37:07.44vigorbrandingRight. I mean, some people might not even know like that. I think people assume because you have a brand, that you actually make it yourself. And you know, there are co-packers out there and a lot of brands use co-packers and you’re handing off your basically your baby and your promise, you know, a brand is a promise, your promise to the consumer to someone else to make. Obviously, there’s there’s checks and balances there. But it it is a, you know, there’s there’s places along the way that you have to count on a lot of partners. And it’s a, I’m sure it’s a difficult business, you know, 37:36.97Clara Paye _ UNiTEI think you have to think of your co-man relationships as kind of like your investors because they’re investing their line time, their energy you know to develop your brand as well. 37:40.66vigorbrandinghere Yep. 37:44.95Clara Paye _ UNiTESo it is a partnership. You’re not just like, you know. Um, taking and giving, right? is It’s truly a partnership but if done right. And like, yeah, I like to, I like to actually preface a lot of my buyer meetings by saying, Hey, by the way, I don’t make this in my garage. 37:56.50vigorbrandingMm 37:57.57Clara Paye _ UNiTEI, you know, because like the, the bias is if you’re like an emerging, I have a dream person and you’re like, make as far as in your garage and like packaging them up and sending them out. 38:01.10vigorbranding-hmm. 38:07.22Clara Paye _ UNiTEI thought there’s anything wrong with that. But like, when you’re trying to pitch a fortune, you know, 100 company, they got to make sure that, you know, you have your ducks in a row. 38:09.52vigorbrandingRight. eat Yeah. Yeah. 38:14.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so that’s a good qualifier. 38:17.32vigorbrandingYeah, Target doesn’t want you like ah to think you’re baking the night before. That’s funny. But I mean, yeah, it’s ah yeah’s it’s true. And it’s amazing all of the the hurdles, I’ll say, that you have to go through. So you have a great, yeah there’s a quote that you like to talk about. lot Winston Churchill, success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. And you’re always enthusiastic. You want to talk a little bit about some of those things that you had to bump up against, some of your failures, some of the things that you had to pivot. 38:44.24Clara Paye _ UNiTEOh, there’s so many, Michael. I mean, every, if it’s, if it was easy, everyone would do it, you know, like I say that, but it’s like, it’s so true. 38:49.31vigorbrandingSure. 38:51.46Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd like, you know, and every entrepreneur I talk to in the food space or any space, it’s like, you gotta be able to take those hits and get back up. 38:57.56vigorbrandingOh, yeah. 38:59.18Clara Paye _ UNiTEBut the getting back up is really hard, right? 39:02.31vigorbrandingMm hmm. 39:02.73Clara Paye _ UNiTEEspecially when there’s like, you could do something else with your time. You could do something else with your energy. 39:06.20vigorbrandingGreat. 39:07.24Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd that’s where like a mission becomes really important. And it’s like, what’s actually driving you? 39:11.03vigorbrandingMm 39:11.36Clara Paye _ UNiTECause if it’s money, you’ll give up. There’s way easier ways to make money. 39:15.17vigorbrandinghmm. 39:15.47Clara Paye _ UNiTELike if I wanted to go make money, I’d just take my money and invest it in real estate or whatever. I’m like, yes, we do that too. but It’s really about mission for me. And so what drives you to like make the world a better place, have a lasting impact, create products that resonate with people. 39:31.82Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd so success is just a barometer. It’s just an outcome of you living that up. But like, you know, there are times, I mean, I think if you’re not ready to throw in the towel every month in your business, are you even an entrepreneur? 39:42.90Clara Paye _ UNiTELike, you know, like it’s just, it’s the getting back up. 39:43.50vigorbrandingRight. 39:46.20Clara Paye _ UNiTEAnd it’s like that loss of enthusiasm is what gets you. And like another way to send that is like burnout. If you’ve burned out, it’s too late. So I make sure that I don’t burn out. 39:52.89vigorbrandingYep. Yeah, that’s very smart. That’s actually very sage advice right there. Because look, these businesses, no matter how ah exciting they are, or how long you’ve been doing them, you do hit those those troughs, you do hit the burnout phase. I mean, personally, I started my first agency 33 years ago. And it’s, you know, ah yeah well and during this whole time with COVID, there’s so much change. And and and you know You think, well, you’ve been doing this for a long time. Everything think just should be on autopilot. No. I mean, I probably worked harder in the last couple of years. I did maybe in some of the middle years. I don’t know. It’s just just a different time. So yeah, the entrepreneur thing, I think everyone takes it for granted or everyone looks over and says, oh, you’ve done that. Or you have money because of this. And ah most people don’t realize those days and those sleepless nights and those weekends and the you know the the fears of everything from bankruptcy to lawsuits to everything else. We all go through it. right i mean every 40:45.92vigorbrandingi get to I’m very fortunate i get to talk to a lot of founders, I get to talk to a lot of entrepreneurs, and a lot of successful people, and they all have the same they all have those same stories. Every one of them has that nightmare, like, yeah, there was this time when, and you know you didn’t think there was a tomorrow. so it’s ah ah you know it’s ah It’s good to hear, it because your story, you’ve seen it all all the way around from your father to to starting up now and what you’re doing. and I love that you stick to your guns. because ah Again, you can cut corners. You could do things faster, cheaper, but not better. And I think that what you do is ah is really remarkable. And i again, I know it’s going to pay off in the long run. So so what’s what’s next for you tonight? I mean, are there any new flavors? If you can’t talk about it, I understand. But if theres is there anything new products or flavors or anything exciting on the horizon? 41:29.86Clara Paye _ UNiTEYeah, there is a new flavor. It’s called Hot Fudge Sunday. We’ll be launching soon. And so we’re really excited about that flavor, another nostalgic childhood treat. 41:35.70vigorbrandingAwesome. Yep. 41:38.67Clara Paye _ UNiTEAlso some different, you know, we’re looking at different formats, kind of some adjacent things. So definitely an innovation pipeline out there. 41:43.72vigorbrandingthat 41:44.39Clara Paye _ UNiTESo hoping to launch some other products. But really, I want to win at bars first and, um you know, really own our category and really, you know, make sure that our velocities stay up and and everything is is good with bars. 41:59.13vigorbrandingFantastic. All right, so one last question. And you can’t be one of your bars. But if you had one last final meal, what would you eat? Where? Why? 42:09.00Clara Paye _ UNiTESuch a good question. I mean, I’m a California girl, so it’d probably be an In-N-Out cheeseburger, ah you know, and and yeah some french fries and egg steak, animals for sure, animal style. 42:15.08vigorbrandingThere you go. All right. I respect that answer. That’s a great answer. Animal animal style, I hope. 42:25.41Clara Paye _ UNiTEum You know, it’s kind of like, that’s the meal when we travel abroad or something and you get back, you’re like, oh, I just want an In-N-Out burger. 42:26.67vigorbrandingah 42:30.92vigorbrandingYeah. 42:31.05Clara Paye _ UNiTEYou know, it just, it feels like home. And I think that goes back to nostalgia and childhood too. 42:35.15vigorbrandingAnybody that with work or or or whatever, friends or family that travel with me, they know when I land in California, that’s one of the first things I do and I will not leave until I do it. It might not be the very first thing I get to do if I have a meeting, but I will have in and out before I get on that plane to fly back east. 42:51.43vigorbrandingso That’s a great answer. 42:51.95Clara Paye _ UNiTEThat’s right. 42:52.84vigorbrandinggreat answer so Anyway, Claire, thank you. This was awesome. I you know i appreciate you. ah you know I’ve known you a long time and it’s just so cool to hear your story and see what you’re up to and congratulations. 43:03.82Clara Paye _ UNiTEThanks, Michaels. Fun to be on. 43:06.07vigorbrandingAwesome. Thanks.

EPISODE 92 – Stephen Baldi – President of Baldi Management Group EPISODE 91 – Nick McMillan and Amanda Signorelli – Managing Partners of Golden Steer EPISODE 90 – Anand Gala – Managing partner of Gala Capital Partners EPISODE 89 – Andy Gellert – President of Gellert Global EPISODE 88 – Shannon O'Shields – VP of Marketing for Rubix Foods EPISODE 87 – Doug Renfro – President of Renfro Foods and Salsa Creator Extraordinaire EPISODE 86 – Burney Jennings – Executive Chairman of Biscuitville EPISODE 85 – Ben Jacobs – Chef, founder of Tocabe and Native local pioneer

Stephen oversees Baldi Management Group (BMG), an airport concessions and management consulting company that manages restaurants in Reagan National Airport, JFK International Airport and Dulles International Airport. Established in 2008, BMG operates various food and beverage outlets, including franchises like Dunkin’ Donuts, Potbelly, and Smashburger. Stephen is an alumnus of Georgetown University, where he was a Community Scholar and student-athlete. He attributes his success to mentorship and now mentors young people, aiming to provide growth opportunities within his company. As founder-led company, Stephen has formed connections with other DC-based founder-led restaurants like Founding Famers and Timber Pizza as well as with larger national brands. About 15-20% of BMG's customers are employees from the airport itself. Stephen is a strong advocate of mentorship and helping employees grow and advance within an organization, even if it means the employee leaving the organization for a better opportunity. QUOTES “My commitment to making meaningful connections with people comes from way back then when I was forced to do it, not only because of who I am but my circumstances and I've tried to carry that out through my career and my life.” (Stephen) “There's something different about a founder-led company, because you've built it.” (Stephen)“Airports are a wonderful place to work. Once you end up in this ecosystem, it's hard to walk away.” (Stephen)“(In airports), the passengers are dynamic. We get to meet and connect with them all. We have the privilege of participating in whatever journey people are on every day and the following day, we get a whole new group of people.” (Stephen) “The (airport concessions and restaurant industry) is about an $8 billion a year industry nationally but the industry is controlled by about 20 key companies. It's a small ecosystem.” (Stephen) “Operating a streetside restaurant versus a restaurant in an airport is a completely different sport. The speed, the requirements, the logistical challenges (of being an in airport), all of our crewmembers have to go through background checks. Unless you're a serious player, you're not trying to participate in airports.” (Stephen) “We encourage our crewmembers just to meet people where they are. It may be the 50th time you've welcomed someone to our restaurant but it's the first time you've spoken to the person in front of you. You should be additive to their experience and not add additional stress or complications.” (Stephen) “We welcome the chaos. When it's raining and snowing outside and your flights are delayed, we kind of welcome that because that means we get to hang out with you a little bit longer.” (Stephen) “If I bring in someone as a front line worker who's pouring coffee, if they're still pouring coffee in three years, both them and the organization has done something wrong. We want to scale people up.” (Stephen)  TRANSCRIPT 00:01.9900:01.99vigorbrandingHey folks, welcome to Fork Tales, and I’m excited. Today’s guest is Stephen Baldi He’s the founder and president of Baldi Management Group. Baldy Management Group is an airport concessions and management consulting company. It’s a mouthful there. ah Manages concessions in Reagan National Airport, JFK International Airport, and Dulles International Airport. Stephen, welcome to Fork Tales, and thank you so much for joining us.00:25.82Stephen BaldiMichael, thank you for having me. I’m looking forward to the conversation.00:29.01vigorbrandingSo for those that don’t know, all of these are located in the sort of DC Metro, Baltimore or down at DC Metro area, right?00:36.21Stephen BaldiCorrect.00:37.04vigorbrandingYeah.00:37.19Stephen BaldiYeah, even though Philadelphia is my hometown, I’ve been in Washington DC for almost 30 years. um So this is home base for us.00:46.37vigorbrandingyeah Well, you you you know, I have a little trick question because that was going to be my first question. Are you still a Philly sports fan? I mean, do you bleed Eagle Green?00:53.03Stephen Baldiif If you cut me, it would be nothing but green. I live in Washington, DC.00:56.48vigorbrandingOK, beautiful.00:57.88Stephen BaldiMy heart is in Philadelphia.00:59.81vigorbrandingBeautiful, beautiful. Wow. There’s, there’s guys, I don’t even know what they call themselves these days. these’s The commanders, the Washington football club.01:04.91Stephen Baldioh The Washington football team, they’re all.01:05.40vigorbrandingI mean, they’re just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just, it’s irrelevant. It’s irrelevant.01:10.11Stephen BaldiYeah, Michael, my family would disown me if anything other than my ah zip code changed as far as my hometown affiliation.01:10.06vigorbrandingSo that’s fantastic. Hey, it’s awesome. You got to bring, I had a gentleman come in, uh, from, uh, Oregon last week to speak to a bunch of advertising agencies from North America. We hosted them in Philadelphia and this guy was so excited. He was, he, he, he came from there, but he was Philly through and through. So everything in his presentation tied back to a Philly icon, something about Philadelphia that was iconic. And, you know, ah in our company, we’re,01:44.34vigorbrandingWe’re very proud that we’re an independent advertising agencies. We have an agency called Vigor and an agency called Quench. Vigor’s restaurant branding. Quench is food and beverage marketing. And the whole thing was around independence and how it’s how important it is.01:57.06vigorbrandingAnd he had all these great icons from like Nick Foles to, ah you know, ah Mike Schmidt to the Fanatic to, I mean, Will Smith.02:07.11vigorbrandingI mean, he just went through all the Philadelphia stuff, you know, the Liberty Bell and everything else. and So it was cool. It was cool.02:11.77Stephen Baldium I love it. I’ll tell you an interesting story about Nick Foles. So I had a really good feeling about our Super Bowl run, even though you know Carson Wentz, who was leading as the MVP that year, went down. And the Friday before the Super Bowl, something told me to go online and buy a Nick Foles autograph helmet.02:33.57vigorbrandingWow.02:34.10Stephen BaldiAnd I did. Now, I did not expedite the shipping, Michael. So it was not in my possession on Monday after we had won the Super Bowl. And many of my friends said that helmet’s never going to show up, but it did.02:47.65Stephen BaldiSo I bought it for $99.02:47.77vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.02:49.77Stephen BaldiAnd I can tell you, it’s it’s worth a lot more than that.02:51.92vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Yeah, it’s worth a lot to people in Philadelphia. So it’s fantastic. And the pride of that city runs deep. So alright, so tell us about Baldy enter Management Group and what it does what inspired you to get into the airport concession games. I mean, you started I think in residential property, right?03:06.90Stephen BaldiI did. I started in residential property management in 2002. And I started in airports in 2005. And it was all kind of serendipitous. I had a really ah prickly history before starting in 2002.03:23.22Stephen Baldiat Kettler Management, which managed tax credit properties, but also Class A luxury communities.03:29.04vigorbrandingOkay.03:29.23Stephen BaldiAnd I had a tenant coming to my office. And she said, Steven, I see you engaging with the residents and how you handle issues. And I think you should be doing more. And I thought to myself, like this woman doesn’t know me.03:39.92Stephen BaldiYeah, I just fixed her fireplace. But who are you to come in my office and tell me what I should be doing? And at the time, I was making $22,000 a year with a Georgetown degree. And the job that they wanted me to interview for paid $85,000 a year.03:54.21vigorbrandingwow03:54.39Stephen BaldiSo as you can assume, Michael, goal I took the interview, I got the job. And so for three years, I worked in development for Westfield, which most people know as shopping mall developers, they have an airport division.04:05.82vigorbrandingHmm. Ah.04:07.99Stephen BaldiAnd so I was responsible for the redevelopment of national airport here in Washington, DC from 2005. to 2008. And then I leveraged a relationship with OTG Management, which has a very large presence at Philadelphia International, um into a joint venture relationship and actually launched the company, BMG, in 2008. And two thousand and eight and it’s we’ve not looked back since.04:31.36vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. you know It’s funny. I really i don’t know you. we’re We’re really talking for the first time. I can tell right away, like youre you have a positive attitude, and I can tell you’re engaging. And so I could see how someone would see you in action and be like, hey, you know you you could do more. like You can be a part of something bigger. And it’s obviously what’s happened, which is it’s awesome. I’m a big proponent of attitude. I mean, i I love to know where people went to school. I mean, if you if I interview you, I want to see your brains on the table.04:58.39vigorbrandingBut I really want to know what your personality is like. I want to know about your attitude. I want to know ah how ah how much of a ah person you are that wants to win and be engaging and help people. And it’s ah like it comes through with you right away.05:09.91vigorbrandingAnd that’s ah it’s cool.05:10.18Stephen BaldiI appreciate that.05:11.03vigorbrandingnow it’s it’s05:11.32Stephen BaldiYeah, i’ll I’ll take it back if you if you want me to. So ah back in 1988, I was turning 13 and I begged my mom for a pair of Air Jordan sneakers.05:24.58Stephen BaldiAnd you’ll remember when Gordon’s first came out, ah they were the first shoe over a hundred dollars.05:25.72vigorbrandingOh, yeah.05:29.85vigorbrandingOh, yes, they were.05:30.36Stephen Baldiyeah I grew up in a upper lower class household and it was a stretch for my mom to purchase these shoes.05:31.49vigorbrandingYep.05:37.09vigorbrandingMm hmm.05:38.21Stephen BaldiBut I begged her and I begged her and I begged her and and she ended up buying them for me. And she said, you know, I just want you to be safe. Well, you probably can assume where the story goes. Within like a month of getting these sneakers, I was an attempted robbery, and I acted very violently to defend myself, and it resulted in me getting expelled from the school that I was at.05:59.94Stephen BaldiAnd as a punishment, ah rather than letting me play basketball for the entire summer, my mom forced me to go to the reading math and basketball clinic at Friend Central, which is a very prominent independent school on the main line of Philadelphia.06:14.39vigorbrandingMm hmm.06:14.96Stephen BaldiAnd that decision changed my life. um I went from living in a predominantly all-Black neighborhood to a private school that I was the only Black male in my class.06:25.11vigorbrandingWow.06:25.74Stephen BaldiAnd what it did was it changed my perspective of what was accessible. like I had never seen a computer before.06:31.75vigorbrandingRight.06:32.14Stephen BaldiAnd at this school, there was in a computer lab where we could sit down and navigate things.06:34.40vigorbrandingYeah.06:36.15Stephen BaldiAnd so going to Friends Central, having my mom make that leap of faith changed my trajectory in many ways. I matriculated from there to Georgetown University here in Washington, DC, which is how I got.06:48.20Stephen Baldito Washington DC. So I am a super Philadelphia sports fan, because not only am I from Philly, but Allen Iverson was my classmate at Georgetown University.06:51.93vigorbrandingThat’s awesome.06:55.50vigorbrandingIs that right?06:56.61Stephen BaldiYeah, we were the same class.06:56.89vigorbrandingWow.06:57.61Stephen BaldiAnd so, yeah, very cool.06:58.33vigorbrandingThat’s so cool. Yeah.07:00.38Stephen BaldiAnd so maya my commitment to making meaningful connections with people comes from way back then when I was forced to do it, not only because of who I am, but my circumstances.07:00.74vigorbrandingAI. It’s legendary.07:12.75Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve tried to carry that out through my career and my life.07:15.84vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. what a great That’s great. That’s a great story. you know it’s like It’s funny that on the Air Jordans, at that time, when they came out, and I can follow you on that. i know you You nailed it. You said the first sneaker that was over $100. My dad had ah this like mom and pop retail sporting store. We sold mostly like hockey stuff. We were from Hershey, Pennsylvania.07:35.39vigorbrandingAnd I was working in a store in in Camp Hill and outside of Hershey. It’s up in the West Shore, they call it. Anyway, long story short, I was in the mall and we sold some sneakers and the Air Jordans came out and we had them on the wall.07:48.37vigorbrandingAnd it was like, it was insane. $100 for a pair of sneakers.07:52.08Stephen BaldiYeah.07:52.28vigorbrandingAnd I mean, like, whereas I’ll say the average then was probably like on the high end was probably like 50, 55.07:57.40Stephen BaldiYeah, for sure.07:58.58vigorbrandingAnd this went right to 100. And it was funny, my dad, maybe that’s where I started learning about, and I really did learn a lot about marketing, working in retail, because you have to talk to people, you have to sell. And I think that’s the most important skill a person can learn. Communicating with people and learning how to sell, like, you know, at least present yourself, right? So I put these sneakers at the very top. I said, dad, you know what? ah I said, everybody wants the Air Jordans. Most people can’t afford them.08:21.42vigorbrandingbut everyone wants to come and look at it. So I always sell them the white, the white, men’s the body they’re like but you know, so for every one Air Jordan, I saw, I used to sell like 30 other pairs of shoes.08:25.49Stephen Baldiah yeah08:30.65vigorbrandingYou know what I mean?08:31.05Stephen BaldiIt’s been up in the store. It’s like a newspaper. People don’t necessarily want just the newspaper, at least the retailer does it, but they come in to buy the newspaper and then they buy the water, the soda, the candy.08:33.13vigorbrandingThat’s right.08:39.73vigorbrandingThat’s right. yeah I lured them in with the Air Jordans. I think we had like five parrot the most. I mean, we couldn’t afford, you know, it’s a little mom pop store.08:46.41Stephen BaldiProbably two sizes.08:47.56vigorbrandingYeah, right. That’s exactly right. So that’s funny. So okay, you talked about sports and and and you know, Philly and all that you you pride yourself on um being a local company and playing in front of the home crowd.08:58.99vigorbrandingTalk a little bit about the the local connection in DC that you have.09:02.34Stephen BaldiYeah, so I’ll tell you, when you fly into most airports, what people don’t automatically see, but being a former developer, I understand that any airport authority, when you land in their airport, they want you to know what city you are in.09:18.24Stephen BaldiSo national brands are extremely important. So you’ll have your Dunkin’ Donuts. You’ll have your Pop-Belly’s, which are ah franchises that we operate.09:22.12vigorbrandingMm hmm.09:25.89Stephen BaldiBut every airport wants you to have a sense of place. So when you fly into Philadelphia Airport, you’ll have a Jim Stakes, because that’s you know historical to that region.09:34.38vigorbrandingYeah.09:34.93Stephen BaldiWhen you fly into National Airport here, or Dallas International, you’ll have your South Blocks, which is an ASE base. com concept here in the DC.09:45.49Stephen BaldiYou’ll have Ben’s Chili Bowl, which has been around since the 60s.09:45.90vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm.09:49.41Stephen BaldiAnd so we’ve prided ourselves from identifying and connecting with other founder-led brands, because I’m a founder. And nothing against a hired gun.09:56.93vigorbrandingMm hmm.09:58.81Stephen BaldiI know they are often effective at their job. But there’s something different about a founder-led company because you’ve built it.10:06.95vigorbrandingYeah.10:07.27Stephen Baldiit probably has more ah meaning to you behind just the bottom line um results that you drive. It’s personal.10:15.52vigorbrandingYeah.10:15.69Stephen BaldiAnd so we’ve developed very deep relationships with companies like founding farmers, with timber pizza, who are all local based companies here. And we expect to continue to grow it, not just in this region that we’re in, but as we grow into other markets to do the same.10:30.68vigorbrandingYeah, that’s that’s fantastic. And you nailed it. I mean, like, I’m a founder, I’m an entrepreneur. And you know, and ah again, wonderful folks that that work with me, I’m very, very, very lucky. But you know, for for most people, it’s their job, you know, their career, and and hopefully there’s a sense of of a family and a real relationship.10:49.53vigorbrandingBut for me, it’s my life. I mean, i am I am defined personally by this, which is probably pretty shallow.10:51.05Stephen Baldiright10:54.86vigorbrandingI mean, i mean look, um I love my daughters. I’m a dad. I’m ah a husband. I love my family with all my heart, but I feel like I’m defined by my company and the what I’ve built. and and all of that And I just, you know, so again, I don’t know if that’s a bad thing or a good thing or whatever, but it’s just, it’s ah it’s a lot deeper, right?11:11.93vigorbrandingWhen you found something and ah it’s it’s a lot deeper, everyone thinks it has to do with like money and stuff, and it really doesn’t.11:12.49Stephen BaldiRight. For sure.11:17.73vigorbrandingIt’s a it’s really about, you know, sort of like your life’s life’s work. and You know, you know, I get I get the most excitement out of seeing the growth of the folks in the company. ah It’s great to see the brands grow and the companies grow.11:30.42vigorbrandingBut I really get a kick out of of seeing the folks that have been here a long time and and all that. So anyway, that’s just that’s me.11:35.91Stephen Baldiright11:36.26vigorbrandingBut I just I totally I totally concur with what you’re saying as far as the founder led. I mean, that’s that’s fantastic.11:41.40Stephen BaldiYeah, at some point as a founder, you most likely had to put something at risk that meant something to you.11:47.14vigorbrandingYeah.11:47.50Stephen BaldiWhether it’s personal guaranteeing, first leverage to build the company or, you know, having to bail it out because you run into a pandemic, which we all face back in 2020.11:47.75vigorbrandingOh, yeah. Yeah.11:55.18vigorbrandingAll right.11:57.80Stephen Baldium Oftentimes you can’t just walk from that business and matriculate to another W2 position because this is yours. And so I love when I can connect with founders.12:04.69vigorbrandingYeah.12:07.41Stephen BaldiI’ll work with non-founders also, but there’s something unique about the journey we’ve all been on.12:09.54vigorbrandingSure.12:11.88vigorbrandingYeah, absolutely. So let’s let’s talk a little bit. I just so folks know, I mean, what’s really cool about this conversation is I, ah you know, with vigor, we work with restaurant brands, right?12:22.32vigorbrandingSo we’re very familiar with restaurant brands. And you you have brands like Potbelly, Smashburger. You said founding farmers soon to come. ah Timber Pizza, Dunkin, I mean, some some household names.12:33.94vigorbrandingI don’t know if I’m um yeah any ants.12:34.26Stephen BaldiOn the end, don’t forget on the end, this is what else we have.12:35.99vigorbrandingNo, I can’t actually. Yeah, we actually worked on any answers. We have an agency called quench that a branding agency, Food and Beverage, that that actually worked with Auntie Anne’s because they started here in Lancaster.12:40.96Stephen BaldiOkay.12:45.88vigorbrandinghu Yeah, and I got to meet Anne Byler in the beginning.12:45.98Stephen BaldiThey did.12:48.81vigorbrandingSo, Auntie Anne is actually a person and she’s a wonderful lady and It was a really really awesome to meet her and and and what a she was so she’s a very philanthropic lady very very ah ah Generous and very successful very so she’s got a phenomenal story as well. But so yeah, I certainly won’t leave the auntie hands out But you so you have all these great brands um Talk a little bit about I mean, you know, you said somewhere founded by they you know the founders and all that what’s it like to to manage all these different brands and13:18.00Stephen BaldiI’ll tell you, it’s a dynamic environment. Airports are a wonderful place to do business. Again, I share with you briefly how I matriculated into them, but once you end up in this kind of ecosystem, it’s hard to walk away.13:33.35Stephen BaldiWe get the privilege of serving the traveling public every day. And what’s special about that are the passengers are dynamic. There are people who are going on business trips. There are people who are going on vacations. There are people who are going to be celebrated and there are people who are going to, you know,13:51.28Stephen Baldiusher people off into a transition of life. And we get to meet and connect with them all. And so I tell our crew members that we have the privilege of participating in whatever journey people are on every day.14:03.68Stephen BaldiAnd then the following day, we get a whole new group of people coming through.14:06.48vigorbrandingyeah yeah14:07.36Stephen BaldiSo that’s dynamic in the industries are small. I will tell you it’s about a $8 billion industry nationally in the United States, food and beverage and airports.14:14.57vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah.14:19.40Stephen BaldiBut the industry is really controlled by about 20 key companies. And within those 20 companies, you probably have 50 total key players.14:23.32vigorbrandingyeah14:27.50Stephen BaldiAnd so we know each other. you know You typically don’t leave the industry. Your business card may change. So you may go from company to company, but it’s a small ecosystem. And so I’ve enjoyed being in the industry now.14:40.58Stephen Baldi18 years. I started when I was two. ah But it’s a buy it’s been an extraordinary 18 years, except for some of the challenges like COVID. But you know for the people who were able and blessed to push through it, I think we have a different perspective on what we can be and what we should be in the businesses that we lead. To your point,15:00.50Stephen Baldium being defined by your business is not necessarily shallow, but there’s levels, there’s there’s depth to what we do.15:08.62vigorbrandingYeah.15:08.91Stephen BaldiAnd I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to swim in those depths ah for many years.15:14.41vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. We’ll get to COVID in a second, but I want to go back to airports. ah I’ll say, fortunately or unfortunately, I’m a customer. I’m in an airport every single week. So when you’re describing the people you see there, it’s like, yeah.15:21.70Stephen BaldiAwesome.15:24.71vigorbrandingI mean, you know there’s it’s every single walk of life. Everyone seems to have a higher level of stress.15:30.65Stephen Baldiyeah15:30.77vigorbrandingEveryone’s in a hurry, even when they’re not, or even worse, if someone’s really not in a hurry and they’re walking slow in the airport, that can actually be more frustrating and stressful. but ah So how do you how do you deal with that chaos? I mean, you got all these people that are amped up and nervous and they have anxiety or whatever, and then all of a sudden you’ve got to serve them and take them, you know, and represent these great brands and and and actually make the stuff and and in a and a fast time because they’re always running late, even if they’re not, they just think they’re always stressed.15:56.04Stephen BaldiRight.15:59.20vigorbrandingTalk about airport concessions. Talk about that chaos.16:02.08Stephen BaldiYeah, so you meet people where they are. And I will tell you, operating a street-side restaurant versus an airport, it’s a completely different sport.16:09.79vigorbrandingI cannot imagine.16:10.73Stephen BaldiI tell ah these founder-led companies when they’re thinking about matriculating in the airports, I tell them you know it’s like playing high school varsity basketball.16:10.80vigorbrandingyeah16:19.70Stephen BaldiAnd then you get drafted to the and NBA, like the speed, the requirements, you know, we have to go through the logistical um challenges of having every box that comes into your restaurant scan.16:20.40vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. Yeah.16:31.21Stephen BaldiLike Cisco’s not pulling up to our back door and delivering our ground beef for Smashburger.16:31.53vigorbrandingYeah.16:34.05vigorbrandingRight.16:35.85Stephen BaldiLike it’s going through an X-ray, just like your luggage is.16:38.86vigorbrandingYeah.16:39.39Stephen Baldium All of our crew members have to go through a 10 year federal background check.16:44.03vigorbrandingSure.16:44.19Stephen Baldium There’s complexities to the business, which are to our challenge. But to me, it’s also kind of to our benefit, Michael, because it reduces my competition. Because unless you’re a serious player, you’re not trying to participate in airports.16:54.14vigorbrandingMhm.16:56.81Stephen BaldiAnd so for me, understanding those barriers and be able to navigate them are great. But from a day to day operation standpoint, We encourage our crew members just to meet people where they are.17:07.93Stephen Baldium It may be the 50th time you’ve welcomed someone to our restaurant, but it’s the first time you’ve spoken to the person that’s in front of you. And again, you don’t know if they’re going on vacation or they’re going to a celebration of life to send a family member home.17:16.31vigorbrandingright17:22.96Stephen BaldiRegardless, you should be additive to their experience and not adding additional stress or complications. Just try to deliver them fast, friendly, exceptional,17:34.09Stephen Baldiservice because that’s our standard. That is our vision for the company, which is being exceptional is our standard. It’s not something that happens intermittently.17:42.84vigorbrandingAll right.17:44.59Stephen BaldiIt happens all the time. And so we welcome the chaos.17:45.78vigorbrandingYeah.17:48.05Stephen BaldiYou know, when it’s raining and snowing outside, even though your flights are delayed, we kind of welcome that because that means you get to hang out with you a little bit longer.17:54.78vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah.17:55.63Stephen BaldiSo as long as we’re not canceling flights, if they’re just delayed, that’s kind of our sweet spot.18:00.01vigorbrandingThere you go.18:00.65Stephen BaldiSo we welcome it all.18:02.58vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. You know, you you said something really interesting. So as I mentioned, Vigor is our agency that that does branding and marketing for restaurants. I know, and it’s not, you know, it’s common knowledge that turnover and and employees in the restaurant industry is like the biggest hassle, right? and Everyone’s dealing with that that turnover. But you just said something. they They have to go through this long, arduous process to get through. So do you find that you have, I’ll say, maybe better better qualified, better quality,18:32.38vigorbrandingah team members in your restaurants?18:34.64Stephen BaldiI would tell you that our hourly and even our salary leadership ah on some levels, they’re more committed because it is a personal investment to get through the process.18:39.98vigorbrandingMm-hmm.18:45.54Stephen BaldiAnd so, you know, typical food and beverage turnover is anywhere from 100 to 150%. And only ours is closer to like 30.18:51.64vigorbrandingRight.18:54.91vigorbrandingthat’s hey That’s fantastic. I never thought that that would have never dawned on me that that would be ah an unfair advantage. you know It’s funny, like yeah I was telling someone the other day, you know the higher the barrier to entry in business, actually the better the business is because you don’t have just everybody and anybody competing.19:12.66vigorbrandingSo you you have a higher barrier of entry.19:13.25Stephen BaldiCorrect.19:15.58vigorbrandingum And with that, you have you sort of have ah have a capture to a degree ah group of people, right? ah But the one thing that is interesting, I think if I remember correctly, I think there’s like 30%, I’ll say of ah if it’s a Dunkin Donuts on the street corner, 30% of their their ah customers will probably repeat, right?19:35.43vigorbrandingah you You are not, I mean, you know you might have the same business guy that flies every Thursday out to you know wherever,19:37.58Stephen BaldiNo?19:40.80Stephen Baldiwe have We’ll have our Michaels.19:41.81vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.19:42.16Stephen BaldiWe have our Michaels.19:43.59vigorbrandingI’ll hit your place and at the airport get a coffee on the way out, but that’s it. Yeah, that’s it. So that’s.19:48.43Stephen BaldiI will tell you, though, we do have outside of the the traveling public, we do have recurring customers who are the people who work at the airport. I mean, at National and Dulles Airport, you get anywhere from five thousand to ten thousand employees that are there every day.19:56.97vigorbrandingNo, that makes sense. Sure.20:03.65Stephen BaldiAnd so ah they are also extremely important to us.20:03.75vigorbrandingMm hmm. Hey, they got to eat and drink, right?20:07.86Stephen BaldiThey got to eat and drink and they have to do it fast.20:09.70vigorbrandingRight. That’s right.20:10.84Stephen BaldiWell, we have different incentives to get them in and out, but they are our recurring customers and they’re about 15 to 20 percent of our business.20:15.10vigorbrandingYeah, that makes sense. Hey, going back to the old mall days that I was talking about the sneakers, I sold a lot of sneakers to people that worked in the mall, not many Air Jordans, but a lot of the, you know, a lot of the lower end sneakers.20:22.26Stephen BaldiYeah, for sure.20:27.36vigorbrandingSo, we talked to you hit on earlier and I know we, we inevitably, hopefully one day we, we don’t, and we don’t have to talk about, we always go back and talking about COVID and, uh, you know,20:35.54Stephen BaldiOh, yeah.20:37.21vigorbrandingOne of our companies and our holding company is a company called Varsity. And Varsity does retirement communities around the country, we market retirement companies. Well, that that industry shut down. I mean, no one was going, no one was visiting, and people were sick. It was bad. Restaurants, another one of our our agencies, right? We marketed restaurants. No one was going. It was basically shut down. you know Your hospitality Uh, and your restaurants, I mean, and your travel, I mean, you’re, you’re combining it all and how, talk about that a little bit.21:06.75vigorbrandingI mean, you were hit from both ends.21:07.11Stephen BaldiOh, I had the privilege of double dipping.21:11.81vigorbrandingYeah.21:11.93Stephen BaldiSo we were in hospitality beverage, but we were also in travel.21:12.41vigorbrandingIn turmoil.21:15.47vigorbrandingYeah.21:16.03Stephen BaldiAnd so I remember very specifically on March 11th, 2020, President Trump came on television and he announced a 30-day travel ban to Europe.21:27.16vigorbrandingMm-hmm.21:28.65Stephen BaldiAnd at the time, ah most people only thought about the impact of air traffic travel to Europe, places like London, Paris.21:37.58vigorbrandingright21:38.31Stephen BaldiBut I anticipated that this was really the big moment for our industry.21:43.00vigorbrandingRight.21:43.21Stephen BaldiI know a lot of people associate kind of their aha moment with COVID becoming a significant thing when the NBA shut down and more importantly, when the NCAA tournament shut down.21:53.85Stephen BaldiBut that announcement on March 11th signified for me that things were about to change for my business.21:58.60vigorbrandingYeah.21:58.72Stephen BaldiNow, I didn’t know it was going to be 18 months.22:02.21vigorbrandingRight.22:02.55Stephen Baldium But within about two weeks, we lost 85% of our top line revenue. And so on March 18, we shut the company down for 18 months. um And it was a challenge to what we talked about earlier, where a lot of my identity was tied up in this company that I built.22:20.39Stephen BaldiWell, there was no company to have an identity he tied to. And so for me as a leader, It really pushed me during that time to redefine who I was in that moment and who I was going to aspire to be if we were privileged enough to come out of it. And we did. We’ve come out very strong, stronger than actually we went in. um We actually sold 35% of the business last year to some strategic, but then also some individual investors. And so I’ve had the privilege of surrounding myself where before I was the only voice in the room and now there are many.22:55.69vigorbrandingRight.22:55.77Stephen BaldiAnd it presents some unique challenges, but also some extraordinary opportunities for me to low to learn and grow from other individuals and institutions that have built companies to scale, not all in food and beverage, many not.23:10.17Stephen Baldium But it’s really given me the opportunity to become a better leader um and to take our company into the next five to 10 years of what we will be.23:20.35vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. you know i the the The COVID obviously affected everybody. It affected everybody in different ways. and like For us for a business, it was and it was really interesting in that you know because we have several different agencies in our holding company, it was sort of a little bit of a like a mutual fund where one or two stocks could be really down, but then others can be up. Our CPG agency, Quench,23:40.72vigorbrandingyou know we’ We’re doing we’re doing brands national brands like you know Sunmade Raise and Stark Institute. To me, COVID, to to that to that company and those brands, COVID was like the greatest sampling program in the history of Earth. i mean If you put it in a package back then, it was on a shelf. People bought it. They stuck it in their pantries. They ate it. They bought more of it. i mean They couldn’t get enough of it. i mean It was just ah an insane time.24:01.94vigorbrandingfor those companies. and then the other the The negative side obviously was the restaurants and everything else. i mean It’s a really interesting time. and and you know You said about how you it can define things. the other thing One of the other things we did was we took adversity. We had all these CEOs that were like, what is everyone doing? i mean like you you know This just happened. It was unprecedented. What is everybody else doing? so We thought, well,24:23.89vigorbrandingAll right, we’re not making i mean and and again it’s not we’re not making revenue businesses down, but we still have these relationships. They’re our clients. So what can we do? So it wasn’t my idea, but one of our guys said, hey, let’s create sort of a round table. of that And our agency is called Varsity. So we called it the Varsity Round Table. So we got all these CEOs that were just like,24:41.34vigorbrandingWhat’s everyone doing? And they were able to talk and it was so successful that we did it the next week. And then they talked more and then more and more CEOs jumped in. They weren’t even our clients and became this open source sharing that has now been, we are on about, I think it’s like 250th.24:58.49vigorbrandingroundt We’ve been doing them every week since the first month of COVID.25:04.38Stephen BaldiWow, impressive.25:05.19vigorbrandingAnd what’s done for a company, for us, i mean again we don’t make any money from it. And it wasn’t about that. It was just a place for people to really vent and help. And now we have speakers come in and talk, and everyone’s obviously well beyond COVID.25:16.71vigorbrandingBut it’s really allowed us to be a thought leader and assist these folks. And you know at the end of the day, it’s what it’s all about. And I know a big thing for you is is mentorship, right? I mean, you know talk about giving back. you want you Do you want to talk a little bit about that?25:27.81Stephen BaldiYeah, I’ll talk about that but I’ll also talk similarly to your roundtable so in February of 2020 I had the privilege of joining the organization YPO, which is Young President Organization, which is very similar to what you define there’s 35.25:42.82Stephen Baldi1,000 YPO members globally. And it’s really for business leaders who have decided that they want to walk towards betterment as a person, as a leader, as a family member, as someone contributing to their community in partnership with other leaders.25:58.55Stephen BaldiAnd so I am in the Washington DC Baltimore chapter here ah in the region.25:58.93vigorbrandingMm hmm.26:04.18Stephen BaldiAnd I’m in leadership. And I can tell you that organization was really critical in me navigating everything that I had to go through ah during COVID.26:14.98Stephen BaldiNow, we didn’t we didn’t meet weekly, um but we do meet monthly in a small group of seven to 10 people, and we have forum.26:15.26vigorbrandingSure.26:19.82vigorbrandingMonthly forum.26:22.81Stephen BaldiAnd, oh, there you go.26:22.85vigorbrandingI didn’t know I’m i’m YPO, too. I didn’t know your IPO. Yeah, I’ve been.26:25.92Stephen BaldiYeah!26:26.21vigorbrandingYeah.26:27.01Stephen BaldiSo YDO is really what sustained me during COVID.26:27.03vigorbrandingSo Oh.26:29.86Stephen Baldium And I’m privileged to be on the ladder now in leadership.26:32.72vigorbrandingDo for you.26:35.01Stephen BaldiAnd so, yeah, as far as mentorship, when I started the company, you know it was a priority for me to give opportunity to underrepresented populations. um Now, as I started to grow the company, my focus started to turn inward, Michael, if I’m being honest. And you know the beginning of 2020, it was difficult for anybody to tell me that I wasn’t the shit. I built this company from zero to something much larger than I had ever aspired to as a young person.27:04.34vigorbrandingRight.27:06.68Stephen Baldium But COVID took all of that away.27:08.81vigorbrandingYeah.27:09.14Stephen BaldiAnd so what it reminded me of is that there was a mission that I started this company with. And it was something that I needed to recommit to when we reopened.27:19.90Stephen BaldiAnd so now um we’re really pouring into our crew members um When I hire someone, specifically, let’s take Dunkin Donuts.27:30.76Stephen BaldiIf I bring in someone as a frontline worker that’s pouring coffee, if they’re still pouring coffee for us in three years, both them and the organization has done something wrong.27:34.59vigorbrandingMmhmm.27:41.17Stephen Baldium We want to scale people up. It is not cost effective for us to have people in the same position for multiple years. So if we’re not scaling someone up to take on additional responsibility inside our company and sometimes even outside of our company, then we’ve done something wrong. you know My mentor told me a good leader ah expects or wants people to leave. A great leader expects them to.28:08.64vigorbrandingYeah.28:09.01Stephen BaldiAnd so either they’re leaving the position that we’re hiring them for or they’re leaving to go to another organization. But either way, we have to invest in our hourly crew members because we can’t afford not to.28:20.86vigorbrandingYeah.28:21.76Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s something that we really communicate out and share out. to our community and our organization and people know that we’re gonna invest in them in ways that other companies might not to and we feel like that gives us a competitive advantage and as a leader it makes me feel a good about not only our bottom line results but also the success that we can feel. I have a manager who’s been with us for eight years.28:46.57Stephen BaldiHer name is Marta. And she started as a single unit manager. And now she’s a multi-airport director.28:53.24vigorbrandingawesome.28:53.39Stephen BaldiAnd to see her growth and to understand the impact that that has has had on her family is tremendous. And I want to do that a hundred times over.29:00.50vigorbrandingSure.29:00.79Stephen BaldiAnd I have the privilege of being able to do that as a leader of our company.29:01.01vigorbrandingYeah.29:04.70vigorbrandingand And think of it this way, I mean, and that’s what’s so great about this country, I’ll say is like, you were making whatever $22,000 a year, I think you had free room or board or whatever you were managing, right?29:12.60Stephen BaldiI did.29:13.65vigorbrandingSo you you’re probably like, I’m getting by, this is okay. And look, you and you know, obviously, you’re you’re very well educated, you have a great drive and personality, but you you created a a huge company. And that’s, that’s, that’s really super cool, really super cool.29:25.90Stephen BaldiWell, Michael, I can tell you specifically in that first year, 2002, I made $19,117 and 43 cents. I can tell you that specifically because that W2 still sits on my desk.29:36.80Stephen BaldiI have it framed.29:36.84vigorbrandingYeah, yeah.29:37.68Stephen BaldiI look at it every day just to remind me of where all of this started and where now we’ve grown the company to I’m, I’m extremely proud.29:45.15vigorbrandingYeah. And you know, you mentioned YPO and I’ve been very privileged to be in that organization for, gosh, I think at least 20 some years.29:53.06Stephen BaldiSo you joined when you were 17.29:54.45vigorbrandingYeah, no, but yeah, it’s one of those things, is we you know, it used to kick you out when you’re 50. In fact, I did, I got the rocking chair and showed up at the front door.30:02.59Stephen BaldiOh, there you go.30:03.68vigorbrandingYeah, that was the thing. And then they decided to have YPO Gold, WPO and all that. stuff So I stayed in and now we’re like a forum for life. So my guys, we meet once a month and we are together. ah we A lot of it’s virtual because these guys, a lot of it, we’re retired and stuff.30:15.91vigorbrandingSo um I’m old. I mean, the it’s YPO o Gold, but I always say it’s Silent G, you know, YPO old. So, but it’s a, it was the greatest thing I’ve ever done for me.30:26.29vigorbrandingMaybe a better husband, better father, better businessman, a better employer, better ah a friend. I mean, and I i mean that.30:32.27Stephen Baldiand human30:33.29vigorbrandingYeah. It’s just a better human. And I think a lot of people see it from the outside and think it’s all, it’s a bunch of guys didn’t talk about how many cars they have and where they want vacation. It’s not that at all.30:40.24Stephen BaldiIt’s not that it’s a transformational community, you know, having a high trust network is invaluable.30:40.92vigorbrandingYou know, it’s, you know, it’s a, it is, it is.30:47.41vigorbrandingYep. Yeah. Someone’s got your back, right? You can always pick up that phone and call your, one of your folks and just, they got your back. No, that’s yeah.30:54.39Stephen BaldiAnd it’s nobody, and it’s nobody, nothing, never. And to have that level of confidentiality is special.30:57.03vigorbrandingThat’s right. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s awesome. That’s all good for you. I had no idea. That’s fantastic. um So, but now I’m going to do a little ploy here. You got to go and you should go to Austin this year to the food and beverage round table.31:10.60vigorbrandingI mean, if you can check it out, it’ll be, I think it’s in in January, you know, I’ll probably be speaking there, but you should go.31:14.55Stephen BaldiOK.31:16.84vigorbrandingI mean, you know, I’d love to meet you in person. It’d be fantastic.31:18.67Stephen BaldiYeah, I’d love that.31:18.88vigorbrandingAnyway, so could we do,31:20.42Stephen BaldiMaybe we’ll be celebrating a Phillies World Series by then.31:22.74vigorbrandingOh man, you’re making me nervous. um I hope so. I hope you’re right. I hope you’re right. But our company, we do it we do an annual food and beverage trends report every year. We’ve been doing them for like, jeez, 15, 16 years. And so a lot of times we launched it at the food and beverage round table. So it’s always really cool stuff.31:40.96Stephen BaldiAwesome, send me an invite and I’ll be there.31:41.00vigorbrandingum Yeah. All right. Well, definitely. I’ll make sure you get it after this, after our conversation here. So, okay. When you go to a restaurant, you you have a choice between human interaction or self ordering kiosks. I know that, you know, you guys need to be really ah high speed, efficient and all that. What what do you, what do you prefer?31:58.57Stephen BaldiWell, it depends, right? Deploying technology is a strategy that ah should be done with intention and asking the question, and then what, right?32:12.55Stephen Baldium I will tell you a story. So the first time we experimented with self ordering technology was in 2008 at JFK airport terminal five.32:24.65Stephen BaldiAnd we deployed at the time iPads um at our Dunkin Donuts because we thought, you know, technology is moving in this way and it’s fun and it’s cool, but nobody wants to walk up to a counter and order a coffee by pressing buttons.32:29.75vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Yep.32:39.85vigorbrandingMm-hmm.32:44.46Stephen BaldiYou know, communicating to a cashier, ah medium cream and sugar takes about 15 seconds. When you are forcing someone to press hot coffee, then medium, then sugar, then extra sugar, like that’s just, we found that that was a ah strategy that wasn’t ah successfully deployed at that time.32:58.57vigorbrandingwho33:05.34Stephen Baldinow That was back in 2008. I will say trends have matured since then and so there is an opportunity to have self ordering technology at a place like Dunkin Donuts and people have learned to navigate it quickly. um You have hot buttons for certain high usage items and so I say to people all the time because my friends question me, whenever they see an iPad, they assume that that means that that technology has taken someone’s job. And what I try to educate people on is that you know if you deploy technology in a intentional way, in a smart way, it allows you to redirect33:45.29Stephen Baldiwhat you would have otherwise spent on front of house and the back of house.33:46.57vigorbrandingMm33:49.72Stephen BaldiOr maybe you’re deploying it at a ah leadership level that’s multi-unit capable.33:49.78vigorbrandinghmm.33:55.24Stephen BaldiAnd so it’s not necessarily ah replacing jobs, but allowing savvy business leaders to take that investment and redeploy it in other ways. I will tell you that the benefit is you know technology doesn’t call out. Sometimes you have to reboot the system, but it always upsells. It always asks you if you want a dessert and always ask you if you want to package your burger with fries. And so to be able to grow your top line ticket, ah that’s only going to drive bottom line outcomes, which allows a business owner like me to look at expansion, to go into other cities, to be able to bring other people along with us because the business is growing. And so there’s opportunity beyond just taking someone’s order. And so34:40.31Stephen BaldiTechnology is something you have to look at in parallel kind of decision making. But I enjoy it. There’s some concepts that it resonates more significantly than others. But I think there’s a balance and there needs to be a balance of both going forward. I don’t think we’re ever going to have an industry that is exclusively technology or self ordering driven. um And I think you go in with a bunch of assumptions, you understand how your customers respond to it, and then you be agile enough to adjust appropriately.35:08.96vigorbrandingYeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. And i I concur. I mean, you know, I don’t want to wait in a massive line, especially from an airport. But, you know, just ordering, pre-ordering and all that kind of stuff isn’t all that funny either.35:19.32vigorbrandingSo it’s just you with that happy balance. You know, I do like talking to somebody and, you know, because I talk a lot, I guess. But plus, I always ask for some ice in my coffee just a little bit. I don’t want nice coffee.35:27.30Stephen BaldiThere you go.35:27.67vigorbrandingSo it’s a little tough to explain to an iPad, you know, so very soft.35:31.57Stephen BaldiTo drop it into a couple of cubes, yeah.35:32.20vigorbrandingWhoops. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t want to burn my, burn my mouth. So now I know you have at least one daughter, correct?35:38.70Stephen BaldiI’d have two daughters and a son.35:39.87vigorbrandingTwo daughters. right All right. Sorry. There we go.35:41.61Stephen Baldi26, 25, and eight.35:41.75vigorbrandingThis will be great then. Wow. Wow.35:45.67Stephen BaldiI started over, Michael.35:45.74vigorbrandingA little gap here.35:46.59Stephen BaldiI started over.35:47.16vigorbrandingYou had a little gap here.35:48.55Stephen Baldihad I had a couple of gap years.35:48.93vigorbrandingA couple of gap years. i well so I have two daughters, 26 as of last week and coming coming up on 29. The reason I bring up these families is you know we all know we love all our kids the same.36:01.78Stephen BaldiNo, we don’t.36:01.79vigorbrandingBut on any but okay but on any given day on any given day, depending on the phone call, depending on the visit, there’s certainly ones that we like other better than others.36:02.97Stephen BaldiNo, we don’t.36:09.94vigorbrandingMichael Alex, it happens it back and forth all the time, just in case you’re listening. Those are my daughters. um36:14.34Stephen BaldiLove it.36:15.04vigorbrandingso you know, we talked about pot belly, we talked about smash burger, we talked about dunking, we talked about timber, we talked about founding farmers, am I missing any any ends?36:25.21Stephen BaldiThere you go.36:27.03vigorbrandingWhich one?36:27.28Stephen BaldiIt’s the end. Yeah.36:27.84vigorbrandingWhich one’s your favorite? What’s your favorite kid there?36:29.64Stephen BaldiMy favorite. Wow. You’re going to force me to say that.36:33.77vigorbrandingYeah, yeah.36:34.15Stephen BaldiWell, I will tell you, because I don’t know if any of our franchisors are going to listen to this part. I love them all equally, and I am privileged to be able to operate them. I will tell you the one that probably um sits deeply in my soul as a person ah is probably Dunkin’ Donuts.36:55.45vigorbrandingNice.36:55.85Stephen Baldiand And I’ll tell you Dunkin’ Donuts because when I was growing up ah in Southwest Philadelphia off of Cobbs Creek Parkway, I had family that lived out by the airport. And in order to get into that area of the city, you have to travel on Cobbs Creek Parkway.37:11.63Stephen BaldiAnd there’s a Dunkin Donuts on the corner of Cobbs Creek Parkway and I can’t remember the cross street, but it’s been there for close to probably 30 or 40 years. I’m 48 and I can’t remember a time when it wasn’t there. And I remember seeing that Dunkin Donuts and thinking how rich that franchisee must be to have that score.37:30.65Stephen BaldiNow I know that owning a single franchise is not necessarily a path to generational wealth, but it did, that Dunkin Donuts did put in my mind like what was possible.37:40.22vigorbrandingYeah, that’s cool.37:40.70Stephen Baldium And so to be able to be now a 14 year franchisee of that brand, um which is our longest franchise relationship, it’s pretty special.37:46.48vigorbrandingSuper.37:50.20vigorbrandingThat’s cool. And you know, I’ll say this from the, from the branding side of the world. Uh, what a phenomenal job. I mean, Duncan’s been around forever. I mean, at one point time it was getting a little tired. It was sort of just fading in the woodwork.38:01.35vigorbrandingAnd we know, I mean, all these brands, I mean, they come on strong. They’re, they’re always started somewhere. There’s this regional thing. And then they become these big brands and is they, they struggle to stay relevant.38:10.04Stephen BaldiRight?38:12.62vigorbrandingRight. And I think Duncan has just done a remarkable job.38:16.08Stephen BaldiWe have, yeah.38:16.24vigorbrandingof staying relevant i mean from their graphic design from their marketing their branding to their advertising and all the cool stuff they’ve done that you did you did they blew it away they they absolutely did and yep38:22.42Stephen BaldiI mean, we had the best Super Bowl commercial in my opinion. I mean, Ben Affleck and J.Lo, they did their thing. And Mark Wahlberg, it like it was it was a beautiful commercial.38:33.65vigorbrandingYeah, and you know, it just shows like when you have passion for something, and those guys certainly have passion for for for that part of the world and ah from the Boston area. I just think it’s it was exceptional. In fact, ironically, we have at at our holding company level, Pavone Group, we have the longest running, okay, this is no kidding, the longest running Super Bowl commercial voting mechanism called spotbowl.com.38:56.66vigorbrandingSo every year we get38:57.28Stephen BaldiOK.38:59.26vigorbrandingyou know, thousands and thousands and thousands of votes from around the world, and people vote for their favorite Super Bowl commercial as it’s being played, as the game is being played. And then the the national media outlets reach out to us, and then we tell them the results.39:13.08vigorbrandingAnd Dunkin Donuts was was certainly a stellar winner.39:13.26Stephen BaldiOK.39:16.02Stephen BaldiIt was and had to be at the top.39:17.26vigorbrandingYeah, it was awesome.39:17.88Stephen BaldiCome on out. Tell me Michael it was at the top.39:19.04vigorbrandingYeah, yeah. It was, well, I’m looking over here at my guy that runs it. it was It was the top one. Yeah, it was, it definitely was.39:24.42Stephen BaldiIt was, it I thought it was.39:25.10vigorbrandingOh, yeah, yeah, yeah.39:25.89Stephen BaldiThere you go. Thank you for, thank you for phoning your friend and getting confirmation.39:26.59vigorbrandingIt was it was awesome.39:29.55Stephen BaldiIt was a pretty special advertising.39:31.41vigorbrandingYeah.39:31.85Stephen BaldiAnd yeah, I didn’t get a chance to order my Duncan jumpsuit, but I’m sure it’s in the mail somewhere.39:36.72vigorbrandingYeah, there you go. there That’s that that everything.39:38.41Stephen BaldiMaybe Duncan corporate will see this and they’ll send me one.39:38.96vigorbrandingAlthough. yeah Yeah, all the merch, everything they did around that was super cool. and the take the outtakes from the39:43.99Stephen BaldiSuper cool.39:46.35vigorbrandingyou know It’s funny too because when it comes to this marketing stuff, like it used to be just a TV spot. and The reason I looked over to ask Dave, Dave’s the guy you spoke to. He’s the one that that kind of heads up this podcast. He’s also the one that really runs Spopple. We’ve been doing this so long that In the beginning, we didn’t know anything.40:03.48vigorbrandingIn other words, they would the game it was all about the game. The game was played. And then people realized, well, people love the commercials. So we never knew, like like you and everybody else, we just sit there and watch the game, cut the commercial. Oh, it’s a commercial for fill in the blank.40:15.61vigorbrandingNow, they release the commercials to us ahead of time.40:15.73Stephen BaldiYeah.40:18.45vigorbrandingThey tell us what it’s about. They send us outtakes. They give us information. Because they realize it, because it’s a couple million dollars for 30 seconds, that they need to get as much juice out of the you know squeeze as much juice out of this as possible so they want to know they put stuff online they do teasers and it’s it’s turned into a an event unto itself and uh we’re really proud to have been a part of it so it’s kind of funny that you brought that up that’s cool stuff all40:39.58Stephen BaldiYeah. Now I will tell you my all time favorite Super Bowl commercial.40:44.35vigorbrandingright uh40:45.67Stephen BaldiNow I remember the star, but I don’t even remember the brand.40:49.95vigorbranding-oh40:50.06Stephen BaldiRemember the the commercial with the kid and the Star Wars mask and he was going around zapping things and he went and he zapped the car and the car started.40:55.24vigorbrandingVolkswagen. Yeah. Yeah.40:58.28Stephen BaldiThat was my all-time favorite more commercial.40:58.46vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. That was ah that was a Volkswagen spot. That was a fantastic spot.41:03.91Stephen BaldiFantastic commercial.41:03.93vigorbrandingIt was a fantastic. You know, I’ll i’ll tell you mine next. i’m I’m a simp and I, you know, ah the Budweiser commercials and41:11.83Stephen BaldiOh yeah.41:13.17vigorbrandingThere was one though in particular where the guy, you know, he raises these horses and it goes on to be a Clydesdale and it it takes off and the horse leaves and there’s a parade. And I almost get choked up thinking about it.41:24.28vigorbrandingIt was so well done. There’s a parade, the guy standing there to parade and the horse sees him, breaks away, chases him down on the road. Oh my gosh. It was, it was, I had to do a live TV commercial. I had to do a live segment on the news about the the best TV spot and and they they, you know, they played it and I wasn’t expecting them to play it.41:40.60vigorbrandingI’m like, I had tears going down my face.41:42.56Stephen BaldiOh, you got emotional.41:42.51vigorbrandingI’m like, That’s my favorite.41:43.64Stephen BaldiOh, look at you.41:45.41vigorbrandingI still get emotional. i think but i think it I think it was the best all-time i mean story. It was just cute. so anyway That’s right, man.41:50.70Stephen BaldiAnd the best story always wins, Michael. Best story always wins.41:53.25vigorbrandingThat’s right. right yeah Yeah, you know, we always tell people a brand is a promise, ah but you have to tell a story. You have to draw a motion, make them laugh, make them cry, make them feel something about your brand. And that’s how you break through. And it’s always important, you know, a lot of times clients will say stuff, um you know, hey we just want to sell more, we got to do this, we got to do that. And and really it comes down to ah the fact that you’ve you got to do great creative to break through to get people’s attention.42:19.09vigorbrandingSo, well, I have a couple more questions for you and I want to hit them for sure.42:21.03Stephen BaldiOkay.42:22.25vigorbrandingSo now look, ah we talked about the airports you’re in, in the in the in the greater DC area, some of the most, I mean, they’re they’re busy, they’re they’re important, they’re huge. Other airports, I mean, you have great concessions in those airports.42:34.37vigorbrandingOther airports that you think have great concessions in the country?42:37.16Stephen BaldiYeah, I will tell you, Atlanta, one of the busiest airports in the world, definitely in this country.42:42.95vigorbrandingOh yeah, oh yeah. yeah42:45.86Stephen Baldium And then Houston, Orlando, Chicago, Charlotte, these are all markets that we kind of look at.42:49.80vigorbrandingMm hmm. Oh yeah.42:54.54vigorbrandingMassive hubs.42:56.51Stephen Baldium It’s important for us to be in high demand airport systems, because you never know how the world’s going to,43:02.80vigorbrandingYeah.43:05.21Stephen Baldirespond. And Morgan Hausl is one of the people who I look to for kind of strategic direction.43:12.04vigorbrandingMm hmm.43:13.49Stephen BaldiI’m thinking about my business. And one thing he always says is that as a business leader, if you’re only planning for the risk and threats that you can predict, you’re probably missing the biggest one.43:24.90vigorbrandingOh, yeah.43:25.41Stephen Baldium And so how we kind of shelter ourselves from that is we go into high demand markets. So even if an airline, a legacy airline like an American or United or a Delta or a Southwest ah decides that they no longer want to operate in that market, there’ll be another legacy carrier chomping at the bit together.43:44.09vigorbrandingSure.43:44.40Stephen BaldiAnd so that’s one of our strategy when we’re looking to grow nationally is to look at high demand airport markets.43:44.77vigorbrandingSure. Mm hmm.43:51.29Stephen BaldiAnd those are just a few that I named.43:53.58vigorbrandingI’m a big fan of Morgan has effect. We have him speaking at our, at our YPO. He’s, he’s one of, I think he might even be next month’s speaker. So I’m really, really, are you really, that’s all his book.44:00.64Stephen Baldiah We’re bringing them in on the 13th of November. Yeah.44:04.00vigorbrandingHis book’s incredible. Incredible. I made my daughter’s read it. So, um, what’s next for balding management group. And mean we talked about in other airports. What’s, what’s next for you? What’s what’s your vision? Where are you were are you hoping to go?44:13.26Stephen Baldimy My vision is to grow the tent and plant trees that I may never even know their shade, um because that’s when I think a community and when a business is thriving is when you’re willing to do things that you might not be able to see to fruition. And so we’re trying to build a company, not trying, we are building a company that will rise the tide for all the boats. I want to create another 20, 25 stories just like mine.44:41.46vigorbrandingYeah.44:41.62Stephen Baldium I can invest and grow my company so that it’s beneficial and creates generational wealth for me, but I also have the opportunity to listen to the individuals whose stories might not necessarily be taken to the top because they’re not fully formed or well articulated.44:59.34Stephen BaldiI try to look for those people, because I was once that person.45:00.66vigorbrandingyeah45:02.15Stephen BaldiI was the property manager in the office, and Cynthia Garber came and tapped me on the shoulder, which she did not have to do.45:02.50vigorbrandingyep45:08.96Stephen BaldiAnd so I’m trying to identify those voices in our companies, the people in leadership, but also the people who we don’t necessarily identify with immediately, because a lot of our workforce our ESL where English is a second language.45:24.24Stephen BaldiAnd so verbal communication is a challenge, but I don’t want that to get in the way of us knowing or ide

The Golden Steer Steakhouse, established in 1958, is Las Vegas’s oldest continuously operating steakhouse. It has been a favored dining spot for numerous celebrities, including Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, and Marilyn Monroe. The restaurant is renowned for its classic ambiance, featuring red leather booths named after its famous patrons, tuxedoed servers, and tableside preparations of Caesar salads and flambéed desserts.One diner once said, “The Golden Steer feels like the soul of Las Vegas.” Nick McMillan and Amanda Signorelli are the managing partners of the Golden Steer. Nick & Amanda took over as managing partners in 2018. Amanda's father, Dr. Michael Signorelli, purchased the Golden Steer in 2001. Nick has spent his career building companies in both the technology and food industries. Amanda's background is in the tech industry.Nick and Amanda created a mail order offering called Goldbelly in 2020 as a way to offset the impact of lost sales during COVID. The online sales continue today with a variety of high end seasonings and compound butters.Customer service and hospitality is a key part of the Golden Steer brand and they live that philosophy every day. It includes simple things like answering phones with a human voice, which Golden Steer has hired staff members to do.  The Golden Steer has worked hard to build its social media presence, becoming one of the most viewed steakhouses on TikTok and using the channel to create offers that drive traffic to the restaurant.  QUOTES “I'm born and raised in Las Vegas and my father purchased the restaurant back in 2001. He did it because he loved the legacy and the story and it was something that was near and true to his heart as it is to many Vegas natives.” (Amanda) “Our longest tenured server is a gentleman named Venko who's been with us almost 40 years. We've calculated that he's made somewhere in the ballpark of 375,000 Caesar salads in his career.” (Nick)  “It's a ton of fun when Venko's making your Caesar salad. You'll definitely hear some stories about old Vegas for sure.” (Nick)  “We're one of the most – if not THE most – viral restaurants in America on TikTok.” (Amanda)  “We're in a strip mall. A lot of times folks say ‘When I first drove up I didn't think I was in the right spot.' But then you walk inside and it's like a little time capsule back to old Vegas.” (Nick)  “We look at ourselves as stewards of this brand that has survived six decades plus and we hope to celebrate another six decades.” (Nick)  “To quote Steve Wynn, ‘People make people happy.” We really try to embrace that.” (Nick)   TRANSCRIPT 00:01.94vigorbrandingHello, welcome to Fork Tales. I’m Michael Pavone, and we’re really excited about this episode. This is gonna be a fun story. There’s a list, obviously, of truly legendary restaurants right in in the United States, but the Golden Steer in Las Vegas is one of those restaurants. it’s It’s the oldest continually operating steakhouse in Las Vegas, and our guests today are Nick McMillan and Amanda Signorelli. I’m Italian, so I got that right, right? 00:29.18Nick _ AmandaNailed it. 00:29.73vigorbrandingyeah Okay. So the managing partners, the Golden Steer, the Golden Steer is a steak house that became a regular stop of Frank Sinatra Elvis and many others. There are rumors of secret doors. We’ll talk about that. And, you know, as one diner once said, the Golden Steer feels like the soul of Las Vegas. So ah Nick, Amanda, welcome to the show. 00:49.07Nick _ AmandaWell, thank you, Michael, for for having us. It’s fabulous to be here. It’s a wonderful morning ah out here in Las Vegas. And we’re certainly looking forward to chatting with you a little bit and telling you about the Golden Steer. 01:00.62Nick _ AmandaThank you. 01:00.87vigorbrandingFantastic. Fantastic. So the question is for both of you guys. Tell us a little about yourselves and how you came to be a part of the Golden Steer Steakhouse brand. And I guess there’s like a love story or something else in there too, right? 01:13.37Nick _ AmandaThere it A little bit of everything. 01:14.54vigorbrandingOkay. 01:15.92Nick _ Amandaah So I’m born and raised in Las Vegas, fabulous Vegas. And my father actually purchased the restaurant back in 2001. And he did it because he loved the legacy and the story. And it was something that was really true and dear to his heart as it is with many Vegas natives. Now I left Vegas and went out to Chicago where I met this lovely, charming gentleman. And at some point I said, hey, 01:38.76Nick _ Amandawhy don’t we jump in and since you are got a bit of a background on the culinary side and I’m on the kind of data and marketing side why don’t we put our heads together and jump back in and return to Vegas and give it a shot. 01:50.74vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. That’s awesome. Nick, you made breakfast somewhere along the line for her. Is that how you, the culinary side? 01:54.75Nick _ AmandaYou know I tried I burned some boiling water but Yeah, originally from the Chicago area, I actually spent most of my career in the technology space. 02:06.21Nick _ Amandai But the interesting wrinkle is that I studied in Rome when I was in college and really fell in love. 02:11.53vigorbrandingAwesome. 02:12.27Nick _ AmandaOf course, the Europeans have such a different relationship with food and dining. And I came back to the States. I thought I wanted to move into the culinary hospitality world. 02:24.22Nick _ AmandaSo I did culinary school. My cousin owned a restaurant in Chicago that I cooked in his kitchen for a while. But ultimately said, you know, this is crazy. Who in the right mind would ever want to own a restaurant and left? the way I went back to the software world. The margins are much better and never really anticipated coming back to it. And then, and then, yeah, we met in and Chicago and We got married in 2018 and I sold the tech offer for my last business and had some some time and her father called and said, hey, I need you guys to so either take over the restaurant or I’m going to think about selling it. 02:59.30Nick _ Amandaand So we looked at each other and said, but let’s do it for a year. Right. Let’s do it for a year. 03:04.58vigorbrandingYeah, give it a try. 03:05.72Nick _ AmandaWe’ll kick ourselves. There’s such an iconic story and and history to to the place. So that year started March 1st of 2019. And of course, a year later, the the world changed with COVID. And so now here we are. 03:21.83vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. So I mean, are obviously Vegas has a storied history, all kinds of neat and maybe some bad background stuff. And your steakhouse has kind of been in the center of it all, hasn’t it? I mean, yeah if I remember, I think it’s like almost three different, ah sort of, I’ll say, historical chapters. So you had, didn’t you have people coming from California, ah coming out through the West, maybe to hunt? And the restaurant was a part of that. Can you talk about that a little bit? 03:48.00Nick _ AmandaYeah, so we first consider ourselves, and you nailed it, we really think about it as stages and horizons of history, which is really wonderfully wonderful to see how the restaurant itself has absorbed it. So the very first one was, we called ourselves the period of the Wild Wild West, friendly for the Cowboys. We were truly a Western frontier restaurant, which was a bit more technical back then. What would happen is the Cowboys would come in from all these different places around the world. They’d come to Nevada, they’d go on the mountains, whatever they shot and killed, they’d bring in, it would be our responsibility to clean, prep, serve, and cook all those things for whoever had them. And so you have a lot of iterations of rattlesnake game, things like that on the menu, but very much Wild West cowboy lore. And so that’s what we started as. And then the second phase of that was as Vegas matured and went from being a saloon-style town to something a bit more elevated, we decided as a city to dominate the entertainment space, which led us to what we like to call the showman era. And so with the showman era, that’s where you have Sammy Davis Jr. 04:45.14Nick _ Amandaah me monroe you’ve got frank sinatra You’ve got all these iconic, amazing celebrities and talents who are coming through Las Vegas, putting their foot on the ground and saying, let’s own this, let’s create it. And during that time, while they were out and performing for everyone else, they’d come back at night and dine at the Golden Steer. And we’ve actually got stories of patrons who said, oh, I remember my father and my grandfather used to come to the Steer because Frank Sinatra would get up on a table drinking whiskey, smoking a cigar and serenading the rest of the restaurant. 05:11.08Nick _ Amandajust really amazing moments that you wish you could see. Of course, when you’ve got the showmen and you’ve got the glitz and glam, you very quickly have the seedy underbelly, which ends up being the mob style. 05:14.47vigorbrandingYeah. 05:21.27Nick _ AmandaAnd so where all the fabulous flashy people come, mob’s there. And that is not surprising, especially when it started with someone like Tony Spalato, who came from the hole in the wall gang. And he made his mark in his business in Las Vegas, as he liked to call a jewelry shop. 05:35.18Nick _ AmandaI think of him more as a pawn shop because everything he had, you stole from a celebrity. You could just buy it back. So he began in Vegas and brought the rest of his um friends, we’ll call them lovingly, to this year to have meetings. And that began the mob period where they spent a ton of time here. It led to the mob room. We had the MatriD trying to exchange and make sure that we had the right mob partners not sitting right next to each other or in different rooms if we needed to. And it created quite a different ambiance. 06:02.56vigorbrandingit’s It’s amazing. And it’s really, I mean, again, so I can say this I’m Italian. So I’m always the old mob is I mean, I, i wrote you know, I think the greatest business movie ever made was a Godfather. And I swear by that, I think that is the best business movie ever made. 06:14.88vigorbrandingAnd so and the greatest movie ever made. So I love all of that, that, that, that mystique. I’ve been to your restaurant and the food is phenomenal. 06:21.44Nick _ Amandait 06:24.74vigorbrandingI’m not pandering. It really is phenomenal. 06:26.86Nick _ Amandathank you 06:26.94vigorbrandingBut you almost get that vibe when you walk in there, like with the brown booze and you have the other people’s names owner who used to hang out there. 06:32.06Nick _ Amandaand 06:32.49vigorbrandingum It’s just, it’s amazing. So you you had obviously all the showmen, you know, the whole brat pack was there. I know that there you have the picture behind you. ah But you also had celebrities like Joe DiMaggio, right? You had, I think it was Ali there. I mean, I think you had lots and lots of sports figures. I mean, I guess anybody that popped in Vegas, how’d he go to the Golden Steer? 06:48.32Nick _ AmandaThank you. Muhammad Ali ah celebrated his birthday here. Mario Andretti, yes, Joe DiMaggio, some more local folks. So, the comedian of Entroqua is Terry Fader. And then my favorite, one of my favorite stories, of course, is Mr. William Baxter. So, William Baxter is ah is a famous, for a number of reasons, one, ah very, very successful professional poker player. 07:17.87Nick _ Amandaum but also very so very well known because he sued the United States federal ah federal government in a case that went all the way to the Supreme Court and he argued that poker is a game of skill and not a game of chance. 07:30.68vigorbrandingOkay. Hmm. 07:33.60Nick _ Amandaand so And that it should be taxed as income instead of gambling winnings. Gambling winnings are taxed higher than income is. 07:38.95vigorbrandingHigher. Yep. 07:40.44Nick _ Amandaah He ultimately won it and permanently recategorized poker winnings for for players across the country. And so just, ah I think it’s a great example of kind of the Vegas stories that you find here um that are that fly a little bit below the radar. 07:52.87vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah, it’s it’s crazy. And again, so much history, yeah you know, I think evolve. And it makes sense, right? Like we talked about like the the mob and stuff like that. Well, in every movie, I mean, you know, they got to go somewhere that’s sort of like a neutral ground, right? Where they’re, you know, they’re not going to be talking in the inside the casino or, you know, their hideout. So they’re gonna, they’re gonna go someplace where there’s ah other people and all that. And the Golden Steer was sort of like a centerpiece for that, wasn’t it? 08:23.81Nick _ AmandaIt was and actually it worked that we’re having this conversation from the mob room. So this is one of the private rooms that we have in the restaurant where they like to come in and dine and enjoy because it was it was separate and so they could have some candid conversations. 08:28.11vigorbrandingOh, there you go. ye 08:40.00Nick _ Amandaalso very close to a back hallway that we had so that they could ah sneak in and out as they needed to because one of the other booths that we have is Ralph Lamb and Ralph Lamb was very well known sheriff here in Vegas in the the at at the same time as the mob so he was kind of chasing them around and so there was certainly times that that one or both were coming in and required ah a quick getaway or a discreet exit and so that’s why they love to to kind of sit and dine in here in the mob room. 09:12.77vigorbrandingThat’s great. So we won’t talk too much about the mob, although I do love the mistake, but so this, yeah we can go to, let’s, let’s talk about like, you know, I know you don’t serve burgers anymore, but, but you said in in past interviews, I guess Elvis had had his last burger at the golden steer. 09:26.63Nick _ AmandaWell, I think he had the last burger that we served at the Golden Steer. I’m sure he had burgers after that. 09:30.40vigorbrandingOkay. 09:31.71Nick _ AmandaBut yeah, we used to do a little transition from the mob. 09:31.79vigorbrandingOkay. Oh no, we’re not saying he didn’t get poisoned there. No, no, no, no, no. You just had, yeah, I would have very clear on that. 09:39.04Nick _ AmandaWe had to make sure that we were clear about it. Um, no, he, he used to come in, he would sit at the, at the bar and and enjoy a burger. And then as you know, his, his fame continued to rise. He transitioned to sitting in, he has a beautiful, probably one of the best corner booths in the restaurant where he would sit and transition from burgers to, to steaks. And so at that point we decided, all right, no more, no more burgers on the menu. 10:05.00Nick _ Amandaand and and to this day have still not served a burger since Office of Time. 10:10.03vigorbrandingThat’s great. So, okay, you guys joined the the Golden Steer 2018, then COVID came around, obviously, and probably created a havoc for everybody, like it did everybody else. I know how it affected the restaurant industry. But you guys, i’ve been I’ve been to your website, you guys are doing mail order, things like that, too. Is that right? So we’re gonna talk a little bit about that and some of the thinking that you put behind that. 10:30.50Nick _ AmandaYeah, absolutely. So when COVID first hit, we both looked at each other and credit to Nick. He was really early on in this. We were actually planning for COVID in the December of the year prior. So we were looking out and thinking that there was going to be something that changed the restaurant dramatically. It was a question of what and how, and more importantly, how long. And so a lot of restaurants we’re looking at, do we do a to-go option? But the reality is our restaurant is on the strip. 10:53.31Nick _ Amandawith the world being shut down. We don’t have anybody here. Even if we wanted to deliver, given the radius, by the time the product got there to most of the suburbs that are going to be 20, 30 minutes away, the product and integrity and quality was going to be disastrous. So it did not make sense for us to try that. The other element, when you look at the actual nature of our business at the time, the predominant share of our customer base actually came from outside of Nevada. And so we said, all right, so most of our customers that we need to be able to get to aren’t here. Let’s ship to them. 11:19.84Nick _ AmandaFortunately, in a prior life, I had run a company and was good friends with some folks that had started a shipping company that was on Foodside and that was Home Chef. Nick also had his first company, which was Right Bites. 11:30.63Nick _ AmandaSo he also had an idea of how to do shipping. So we looked at each other and said, let’s give it a go. So we went live on Goldbelly, which was May 19th, sold out of our inventory with one email in about two weeks. 11:38.00vigorbrandingMm hmm. 11:43.08Nick _ AmandaSo there’s something there. Let’s turn it on and run with it for a bit. Fast forward to November of that same year, and we ended up taking it in-house and selling ourselves on Shopify and building that out. 11:52.01vigorbrandingThat’s great. 11:52.22Nick _ AmandaWow, we’ve been able to double that business pretty much year over year. And interestingly enough, that business is actually a seasoning company first and a state company second. 12:00.39vigorbrandingWow. Good for you. Well, I mean, there was the mail order stakes before, right? 12:02.46Nick _ Amandathere was states 12:04.20vigorbrandingPeople had that. That’s something that, you know, existed. So, uh, which that’s great. And it’s good to still have that, but the seasonings are, that’s what makes you guys special, you know? 12:12.82Nick _ AmandaIt’s a ton of, and it was, you know, something, you know, we’ve, so Sergio sees, so Sergio is our master butcher. He’s been with us for almost, almost four decades at this point. 12:23.22vigorbrandingWow. 12:23.37Nick _ AmandaAnd he, over the years has developed a seasoning blend in it. We use it on steaks in the restaurant. But it really came, we so during COVID, we did virtual private dining, which was we had all these conventions cancel, all these corporations that looked to do virtual events. 12:38.93Nick _ AmandaAnd so we we had our iteration of that, which is we would send a box of ingredients for a three-course meal. So our world-famous Caesar salad, rib eyes, the cream corn, twice baked potato, and then, of course, the bananas foster. 12:53.11Nick _ AmandaYou can’t forget, a little taste is sweet at the end. 12:54.34vigorbrandingnope yep 12:55.78Nick _ AmandaBut one of the items was Sergio seasoning. And as we did more of these events, and we did them for folks like Dell and Cisco and NASA and Second Watch, people started asking, like hey, this Sergio seasoning, can we can we buy this separately? And so a light bulb went off, and it was I think a year and a half after we first started selling steaks that we then allowed folks to to buy and and brought the Sergio seasoning to market, which then kicked off a line of seasonings, and now we have a line of compound and flavored butters that we also ship out as well. So it’s been a real like evolution of that online piece that you know I don’t think, um without COVID, I i mean, we we probably would have exported a little bit, but it was really a driver and catalyst for you know expanding into that online space. 13:43.94vigorbrandingYeah, I mean, it’s brilliant. And look, you know, necessity is the mother of invention, right? You guys, I know restaurants are hard and it can be a daily grind, you know, whether you have one or 50 or for franchisee, franchisor to then start an online, really, in a way, a CPG business, right? i mean e-commerce business, it’s a whole other world and it’s a whole other venue. So it’s really kind of cool that you were able to have the energy, the fortitude and the desire to drive that way. That’s that’s awesome and kudos to you guys for doing that. 14:14.81Nick _ AmandaAnd that is, I, you know, Amanda has really taken that by the horns and driven that um to an amazing extent. 14:14.89vigorbrandingum 14:24.40Nick _ AmandaI think it’s it’s wild. I mean, it’s been it’s been a long journey, right? we’re We’re almost four years in, but it’s been exciting to see kind of how that has evolved and changed. um Because it is. 14:35.21Nick _ AmandaIt’s an entirely different world. 14:36.55vigorbrandingSure. 14:37.18Nick _ AmandaThe digital ad space is, um is ah of course, massive. um And so it’s been it’s been fun to to kind of lean into that. And it’s to see where the two have fed off of each other, I think, is is very exciting for us. 14:53.69Nick _ AmandaAnd so as an example of that, It used to be two sister brands. So we had Golden Steer Las Vegas as one of the domains and then Golden Steer State Company. And it was only in March of this year that we kind of brought it all under one umbrella. 15:06.96vigorbrandingSure. 15:07.41Nick _ AmandaIt’s goldensteer dot.com, which really we saw a lot of benefits in and value to it, which has been it. 15:10.93vigorbrandingOf course. Yeah, I mean, it’s that’s super smart. I mean, this all came about like Fork Tales, this podcast all came about because we have we have an agency. My background is is advertising marketing and we have a holding company and in our company, we created different brands. And one is Quench, which is CPG food and beverage. When we were doing that, people would come and say, hey, 15:32.60vigorbrandingYou should you know market our restaurant or do you do restaurants and. Everyone thinks well restaurants food and beverage right so it’s the same as cpg but it’s not and you guys know that cause you’ve done both so. We created vigor or you know take on and a brand called vigor which is a restaurant. 15:49.99vigorbrandingbranding and marketing agency and they are very different. I did it because they’re different. and We have different skill sets in there and you know it’s retail and the speed of retail in the restaurant side and CPG is just a different animal. 16:02.86vigorbrandingSo I mean it’s a yeah it’s it’s ah um kudos to you guys again for doing both. 16:06.33Nick _ Amandato go. 16:08.20vigorbrandingI see that a lot because we’ll have a lot of folks on that’ll be ah they’ll they’ll start with ah a food product, a CPG and they’ll create restaurants from it. or they’ll have a restaurant and then things will emanate off of it. 16:19.82vigorbrandingYou know, we just did a thing with Guy Fieri ah with his sauces. We just did a thing with, I’m trying to think who else was, it doesn’t matter. But we’ve we’ve had a lot of these guys, a home run in is another one who’s started out as a restaurant and and now they’re, you know, yeah. 16:33.66Nick _ Amandaoh yeah ah 16:36.53vigorbrandingthey’re phenomenal pizza, right? So it’s really kind of neat to see these evolutions and how they grow. So well thank goodness that the whole industry of the conventions is back. and I’m sure that’s great for you guys. In fact, i’m i and believe it or not, I’m not just saying this, we have 15 people coming in to your restaurant. I think it’s in October. If that reservation is not made, we have ah one of our companies and our holding company is a company called Varsity, which is senior living. We have we market and brand retirement communities around the country. 17:06.78vigorbrandingAnd there is a, ah the acronym is SMASH. I’m not sure exactly what it stands for, but they’re having a convention in Vegas. And so we’re bringing a bunch of clients ah to the restaurant. 17:16.97Nick _ AmandaThank you. 17:17.92vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. So I’ll have to make sure they get the bananas foster. 17:18.87Nick _ AmandaWe’ll see you. 17:22.79vigorbrandingSo, oh yeah. 17:22.81Nick _ Amandait’s the bottom one 17:24.05vigorbrandingBut now the stay on the let’s say when you’re Caesar Salads killer, I was at the restaurant and the gentleman at the serve, they talk about him a little bit. 17:31.84Nick _ AmandaYeah, so our longest tenured server, a gentleman named Banco who’s been with us for also almost 40 years, and we calculated that we think that he’s made somewhere in the ballpark of 375,000 Caesar salads in his career. 17:50.13Nick _ AmandaUh, so it’s, it’s, he, and he tell, he tells some wonderful stories. 17:50.59vigorbrandingyeah 17:55.52Nick _ AmandaHe’s been in Vegas for a long, long time and has met some incredible people. And, you know, one of them, most interestingly, coming back to kind of the the mob era. 18:06.14Nick _ AmandaSo Tony Spelatro. Camino talked about his his jewelry store. It was right next to the Golden Steer, which is why he would come in. And one of it the gentlemen on his henchmen team was Frank Colada. And Frank Colada, there is a ton of stories and books and podcasts about him. 18:24.98Nick _ Amandaum because he yeah actually was ah an informant and went into witness protection for a long time and then came out of it and he would still after he came out he would still come in and dine at the Golden Steer and Vanco was the only server that he would that he would really allow to to wait on him and so they had a they had a special relationship and Vanco yeah has some tremendous stories and It’s still with us. 18:48.76Nick _ AmandaWe are grateful um through through all of the ah the craziness of COVID remained with us and and is a treasured part of of the team. And we are not just him, but we have a tremendous team. 19:00.25Nick _ AmandaBut it’s a ton of fun when Van Gogh is making your season salad. You’ll definitely hear some stories about Old Vegas for sure. 19:04.81vigorbrandingYeah, ah it’s it’s super cool. Like I said, I absolutely loved ah my time there. and And you were not there, but he was so that, you know, he he was there. 19:13.26Nick _ Amandayeah 19:14.38vigorbrandingthen We got the Caesar and, you know, it was it was a phenomenal. So and the whole like the whole mistake. And what’s really cool and and you I should say for anybody who’s interested in in in checking out the the the restaurant, you know, we think about Vegas and restaurants like there’s these big casinos and all the restaurants in the casinos. 19:30.51vigorbrandingYou guys are not in a casino. I mean, you’re old Vegas, you’re on the strip, right? 19:34.33Nick _ AmandaWe are, our address is not technically on the strip. We are about a half a block or a block off the strip, but we’re in a strip mall. 19:41.22vigorbrandingYeah. 19:41.54Nick _ AmandaAnd so a lot of times we get feet, like folks drive up and they say like, when I first drove up, I don’t, I didn’t think that I was in the right spot. 19:46.04vigorbrandingYeah. 19:50.61Nick _ AmandaUm, because, you know, we talk about all this history and everyone that’s come in and you drive up and it’s a strip mall. 19:55.88vigorbrandingright 19:56.10Nick _ AmandaUh, but then you walk inside and it’s like a little time capsule back to old Vegas. We still have, you know, 20:00.15vigorbrandingyeah 20:01.01Nick _ AmandaWe still have the carpets and the dining rooms and the popcorn ceilings and a lot of the elements that make, that kind of transport people back to to that time. And so, um but yeah, and we’ve always been in this location, ah you know, 66 years. And you can think about, back to Amanda’s story about the frontier days. 20:23.72Nick _ Amandayou can kind of see it when you come here like this is not you know there was the old strip down on Fremont and then some of the kind of the new hotels were being built in the 50s and 60s but this was kind of just a little bit off the beaten path and so there were hitching posts and it’s easy to see how folks would you know go and hunt in the wilderness which was not that far from where we currently are but now of course today it’s it’s a much different story Vegas has seen some tremendous growth but 20:42.38vigorbrandingRight. 20:47.30vigorbrandingYeah. 20:48.45Nick _ Amandaah But yeah, it’s a ton of fun when folks come in for the first time and kind of look at themselves at the outside like, are we at the right spot? And then walk in and a whole different world. 20:56.76vigorbrandingyeah Well, the way you explained it was absolutely 100% my experience. Because when I went out there, I think I took an Uber, and you know how sometimes Ubers you put an address in and you’re like, well, this doesn’t look right. I did the old, well, this doesn’t look right. And then I was like, wait, wait, no, there’s, oh, yep, yep, yeah, we’re right, okay, great. And walked in and it was like, to your point, it’s like ah Oz, right? You open the door and there you are. And so I think anybody that goes to Vegas, you know, the the mystique, the history, all that stuff is so important and so cool. and You know, I just need to go to, uh, you know, anybody can go to the wind or whatever, which they’re all fine. 21:26.30vigorbrandingThey’re all great. But I mean, like to go out and see your place is like, it’s like going to a museum. and And then, but then on top of it, the food is as good as anything you’re going to get anywhere, if not better as far as a steak. So I just think you have such a cool vibe going and, uh, kudos. 21:38.08Nick _ AmandaWell, thank you. yeah you know and it’s And especially this year, it’s bittersweet, right? So the Tropicana is in the process of being torn down. 21:43.48vigorbrandingYeah. 21:45.67Nick _ AmandaAnd and it’s a remind. What’s that? The Mirage. The Mirage, of course, is you know the first hotel that Steve Wynn built from the ground up is is also in the process of being demolished. 21:49.01vigorbrandingYeah. 21:55.82Nick _ AmandaSo it’s exciting. the The town has seen tremendous growth. And I think the um the community has benefited from it greatly. But it’s also a little bittersweet because these icons of the past kind of are continuing to to transition. 22:06.50vigorbrandingYeah. 22:08.96Nick _ AmandaAnd so we we look at ourselves and we think, and we talk about it a lot with the team, that we feel like stewards of this brand that has managed to survive you know six decades plus, and that we you know hopefully would love to celebrate another six decades. 22:25.51vigorbrandingSure. 22:25.95Nick _ AmandaPast this so it’s been you know, the town is is is wild. it’s It’s been really great um But yeah, they’re it’s kind of always in that transition period 22:36.05vigorbrandingThat’s funny. I mean, it’s really ah yeah it’s ah it’s an amazing kind of thing. And just to have that history is just it’s a treasure to your point. So a lot of the restaurants will claim that, you know, they focus on hospitality, but very few do it well. What’s your secret? How do you make it real and make sure that your staff brings that, you know, to life every day? 22:54.75Nick _ AmandaIt’s a great, way it you know, I’m from, or like I said, I’m originally from the tech world. And so it’s been, um, It’s been phenomenal to see just, I think, just want to talk about for a second. I think the, the work ethic and, uh, the quality of people that are in the industry is tremendous. Um, and I think, you know, people really that are in this, like have a passion for, for it. And I think Vegas itself is unique in that. Uh, and I think it, it starts with people. Um, I think to quote Steve, when he always said that, you know, that people make people happy. Uh, and I think we really try to embrace that. 23:32.99Nick _ Amandaum And one, so Pete Wells just retired as the New York Times food critic in his final column. One of the things that he talked about was phones, that a lot of restaurants don’t answer phones anymore. And we do. We actually, ah we get a tremendous number of of inbound phone calls and we’ve hired up folks in the restaurant to be able to try and answer as many of those phone calls as possible with a human voice because we think that that is important. And we, 24:02.19Nick _ AmandaYou know, at the end of the day, we were a family business. There’s not too many family businesses on the Las Vegas Strip. And so we try to bring that warmth and the idea of, you know, folks are coming in to celebrate their most treasured moments, their birthdays, their anniversaries, graduations. 24:21.88Nick _ AmandaIt’s always fun when a local came in for prom and now they’re coming in for, you know, their kids’ graduation or or anything like that that’s multi-generational. 24:27.56vigorbrandingAwesome. 24:30.23Nick _ AmandaAnd so there’s a lot of, ah history that folks have with the restaurant and warmth I think is one of the big pieces that we try to to focus on. I mean there’s the there’s the tactical ah you know the steps of service and all of those pieces but we really try and say how do we make people feel feel good and feel happy feel welcomed if If something is wrong, if there is a miss on food, um we will you know either replace it or take it out late. We do everything that we can to ensure a great experience because we know that folks are coming in to to celebrate celebrate those special moments. so 25:08.31Nick _ AmandaWe really try and focus on the people first. ah We have a tremendous, tremendous staff um that I think enjoys the history and kind of being a part of that stewardship of ah a legacy brand. And it’s a ton of fun. And I think we are We are fortunate that we have had folks that have been with us for a long time to kind of keep that, like a, like a Vanko and a Sergio over the decades that have seen the ebb and flow of the city, that have seen the ebb and flow of the restaurant and have some, ah you know, a foot kind of in the old Vegas hospitality that folks like to to reminisce about. 25:34.68vigorbrandingwho 25:47.75Nick _ AmandaAnd so we try and and bring that and make that real, ah you know, day in and day out, which is, which is a fun, a fun and interesting challenge as a part of the restaurant industry. 25:57.16vigorbrandingYeah I mean we’ll like you know okay so and I’m not saying everyone can do it well but anyone can make a steak you know I can go home and grill a steak but if I go to your restaurant I’m gonna get it I’m gonna get a phenomenal but really it is about that whole experience right and those people become they’re part of the brand like we I said I did have the Uh, uh, your gentlemen, Benko, I guess is his name that did you make my, so my salad was phenomenal. I mean, and that was part of the whole, the whole deal and and and part of the romance of the whole place. So, uh, I think that’s, that’s phenomenal. So now talking about special moments last year, you guys purchased a thousand square foot of adjoining space. You’re expanding for the first time in 50 years. Um, now you you have a classic look architecturally, how hard is that to do? And what is the, what are what are you going to do with that space? It’s just tables. You can do more banquets. Is it, you know, talk a little bit about that. 26:43.00Nick _ AmandaYeah, so we opened it. um And it it was exciting. It was the first time in 50 years. And to Amanda’s point, in the restaurant, you could see the evolution over the six decades because the the the current bar that exists today was the last expansion that we did in the 70s. And so it was it was fun to to take on this bra of of you know this first expansion in 50 years. So we opened it last November right before F1. 27:10.62Nick _ AmandaAnd it is additional dining space, but also mainly with a focus on large parties and private dining, which is a tremendous part of ah Vegas now with with all of the social parties that come in and of course all of the conventions. 27:16.19vigorbrandingGreat. 27:20.66vigorbrandingSure. 27:25.69Nick _ Amandaand and we kept We kept everything as, you know, it was very inspired, of course, by the existing space. So ah wood paneling, which is a huge part of the existing restaurant or the the original restaurant, it was kept. The carpet is the same. We kept the popcorn ceiling. So its it was a very fun conversation with our designer and architects before we even started construction. 27:53.76Nick _ AmandaWe walked through the existing space to to kind of get some ah design ideas. And we were talking about the ceilings. And I was like, well, of course we have to keep the popcorn ceilings because we have the popcorn ceilings in the existing space. And our designer looked at us and she’s like, you know, I’ve taken a lot of popcorn ceilings out in my career, but I’ve never actually had a clock that wanted to put them in. And, you know, of course, would it be our first choice if we were just, you know, starting from scratch? Maybe not. 28:19.14Nick _ Amandaah But it’s a part of the history and kind of the rounded coving of where the walls meet the ceiling is a part of that. 28:19.44vigorbrandingThat’s it. 28:27.28vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 28:27.44Nick _ AmandaAnd so all of those pieces that we that we could we took the, you know, we have ah this beautiful um circular soffit that is in the main dining room. And we also created a similar one in one of the the new rooms as well, just to make people continue to feel like this is this is an extension, you know, no different than what the steer has done over the six decades of, you know, continuing to um to kind of grow and do it in a way that that is in harmony with the with the rest of the space. So it’s been and we but to 29:03.30Nick _ Amandaum I guess I’ll just say we were very excited so when we opened it the first night we did a friends and family dinner and the first couple that walked in they gave us a hug and ah she was super excited she’s like oh congratulations on the opening like and we were at this time we we greeted people in the new space so she walked into the new space gave us a hug and she’s like after the hug she’s like all right this is awesome congratulations can we see the new space but she was standing in the new space and asked to see it and really made a smile. 29:32.74Nick _ AmandaAnd that was kind of the goal that folks wouldn’t have any idea that they were standing in a space. 29:34.02vigorbrandingah 29:36.59vigorbrandingYou have to pump like some old cigar smoke in the seat cushions right in the new place. 29:39.18Nick _ AmandaWe didn’t know about that. All right. 29:40.74vigorbrandingyeah 29:41.52Nick _ AmandaThe joke was the mill workers that I was going to have, you know, bring in like four and five year olds with like keys and like socks to like mark up the woodwork to make it look aged. 29:50.06vigorbrandingYeah. That’s awesome. That is awesome. All right. So now I’m going to ask you, that you know, I’ve read that the the steer has the best steaks on earth and I’ve had a phenomenal, absolutely. I concur. um Now you’re the couple that makes the best steaks. I’m going to give you something personal. man I’m going to start with you. ah What’s your favorite cut and how do you like it cooked? 30:08.78Nick _ AmandaThat’s easy, ribeye 100%, absolutely. Medium rare and always with, if I can, I really like our maturity butter. I think we did a great job with it. So I like to put that on top. 30:17.99vigorbrandingWell done. Well done, Nick. 30:22.50Nick _ AmandaWhy, i the our ribeye is our signature cut, 24 ounce bone in. If, and I won’t pick that, but I would say actually the strip loin, our New York strip, our 16 ounce New York strip is is probably my go to now. I think it’s the perfect blend between, you know filet of course is delicious if you’re looking for that, very lean, tender. A ribeye is fantastic, great marbling. 30:46.92Nick _ AmandaA good bite and I think the the strip kind of plays right in between those It’s got good fat for good flavor, but it’s still got some good tenderness. We butcher all of the meat in house. So everyone’s Steak is cut fresh that day which I think really adds to that element of freshness and we wet age everything for a minimum of 28 days to to bring a little tenderization to to the meat and It’s a ton of fun. 31:16.48Nick _ Amandaand We cook, it we we keep it old school. We cook on commercial broilers, uh, that really help us kind of measure the amount of char that we’re getting, uh, you know, based on kind of the, the distance from the heat source. 31:29.86Nick _ AmandaSo it’s a very old school. I think the broiler broiler is as old as Sergio is. 31:34.84vigorbrandingI was going to say evening, bought him a new broiler. 31:35.26Nick _ AmandaUh, 31:37.20vigorbrandingHe’s been there all these years. 31:38.45Nick _ Amandahe likes the old one. 31:38.62vigorbrandingThe guy can, he needs a new broiler. 31:40.40Nick _ AmandaHe likes, he knows how it works. yeah He likes the old one. 31:42.08vigorbrandingThat’s it. That’s awesome. Yeah. That’s great. Now, Amanda uses the butter. What do you, any, anything you’d like to add to your steak? 31:49.44Nick _ AmandaNo, I like to keep it traditional and classic. 31:51.93vigorbrandingSo I’m kind of in between both guys. I’m always a ribeye. I did Devone in at your place, phenomenal. I don’t put anything on my steak. So I just, I’m, and I love ribeyes. I, you know, there’s probably a healthier steak out there. 32:02.72vigorbrandingThey’re filet, but I figure, you know, my deathbed, I’m not going to wish I ate more filets. I’m always going to eat a ribeye. So ribeye and a big bottle of Cabernet or an amaron. 32:07.23Nick _ Amandaah great a hundred 32:10.30vigorbrandingI love amaron lines. Oh, that’s like heaven on earth. I’m hungry. um So, I mean, yeah, so so nothing on your stake. um is is If someone wants to put a catch up, is there any judgment? 32:22.36vigorbrandingHow do we feel about that? 32:22.65Nick _ AmandaThere’s not, there’s not. 32:23.52vigorbrandingNot? 32:23.88Nick _ AmandaAnd I think so for us, that comes back to the hospitality piece, right? 32:24.04vigorbrandingOkay. 32:27.63Nick _ AmandaAt the end of the day, we’re serving you your steak. So if you want ketchup or you want A1 or Heinz 57, or you want it butterflied and well done, ah no no judgment from us. 32:40.62vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 32:41.32Nick _ AmandaWe’re going to prepare it the way that you want, ah which I think is is important because you’re you know you’re coming in to celebrate and so who are we to to to say that you can’t have it that way? 32:51.78vigorbrandingsee see but that’s what we do differ a little bit because I do judge and and I love I love my wife but she’s always well done steaks well done we were we were in Italy and the steak Florentine right and they make their steak Florentine it’s just aged and it’s basically they make it one way they only make it one way and she and you know and very expensive and to your point it’s it’s your your your time your money people should be there she walked in and she asked the waiter she said 32:54.86Nick _ Amandaand Yeah. 33:18.17vigorbrandingI know I probably shouldn’t ask this because they make it well done. He’s like Sure, but I’d rather I’d like to recommend the filet for you. He would not sell her the the t-bone the steak Florentine He would I he’s like I will get you a filet That’s all you’re allowed to have and she was happy that she was okay with but that’s that’s the truth I have one other anecdote like when I started my my illustrious career Like like I and like I think a lot of people did and I think everyone should you start in a restaurant I just think that is like The greatest education anyone can have that and I think everyone should have to sell something like I don’t care if it’s like ah ah subs for your baseball team or Girl Scout. I think everyone should sell something and everyone should work in a restaurant and in my ah my illustrious career. I started out at this restaurant and it was a 34:02.41vigorbrandinga gentleman by the name of Hobart Umberger, and and he he had a restaurant he did very, very well with. He had a bunch of restaurants at one time called Um-ee’s, just a local fair. It wasn’t like, it was like all one-offs. When he was getting ready for retirement, 34:15.31vigorbrandingOr as he aged, he didn’t need money and he didn’t care about serving a million meals. He wanted to make everything by hand by himself. So he created this thing called Hobarts. It was high end, very high end. Hershey, Pennsylvania. So we would get a lot of people in from the factory, a lot of dignitaries, lots ah lots of C-sweep types of folks. He had one bottle of ketchup. One. And it was next to a knife. 34:36.89vigorbrandingin the kitchen next, behind him. And inevitably Hannah was the waitress. I can still picture it like it was a, he’d be, and he did these things, these tornadoes of beef. He would do these center cuts of the filet and he was very proud of those. And inevitably it would be this thing and Hannah would be all nervous and stuff. she open the door in the kitchen. 34:53.71vigorbrandingI was washing dishes, by the way. And she’d be like, Hobart, I don’t want to hear any shit. this I know you’re going to yell. I need to catch up. And he would be like, he’d start throwing stuff. 35:04.41vigorbrandingAnd he’s like hey do and he’d be banging stuff. And he was like, who the hell? And he knew because he made everything by hand. and He made it. He was like, that’s the guy. There’s just sort of the plays. The tornado is a beef. 35:14.76vigorbrandingAnd he’s like, there I’ll be damned if I’m going to have my cake. Anyway, so i I’m glad we had that question. here Because it’s a it’s a thing. 35:20.38Nick _ Amandaah i edit a hundred percent and and but we We like to have these conversations because a lot of folks share your perspective, um and which you know in some sense i can I can understand and empathize with. but i think we I will say to you know to the the story you told about your wife in Italy, 35:40.38Nick _ AmandaWe will recommend, so I think a good example is like the tomahawk. So we we offer a 40 ounce tomahawk and it’s a tomahawk ribeye cut. so it’s that So it has a good amount of fat in it. 35:50.13vigorbrandingOh, yeah. 35:52.39Nick _ AmandaAnd so one of the places that we will do some recommendations is if someone comes in and orders the tomahawk rare, we will maybe suggest like, hey, um, because it’s, if you want it rare, some of that fat is not going to render out. 36:07.65vigorbrandingMm hmm. 36:07.83Nick _ AmandaAnd so it’s going to be a little, it could come across as a little tougher, a little gristly. And so there will be some times that we’ll make some recommendations, but, um, at the end of the day, folks are are ordering what they would like. 36:18.37Nick _ AmandaAnd I think for us, it comes back to that hospitality piece of, you know, we want you to feel warm and welcomed, uh, and I don’t know if you can feel too welcome if you order a captive and you’re taken and you hear the shaft in the back laying in top of his pants. 36:33.46vigorbrandingAnd he did and he but he didn’t care like he was like he would actually would rather them left because him at his point in life He was just an artist and he wasn’t looking for money and it was just that was his like ah Passion project. 36:38.34Nick _ Amandaah I’m sorry. 36:43.68vigorbrandingSo it’s just yeah, it’s crazy. But sorry. So now we’ve got we’ve we have a phenomenal steak you guys make the best steak on earth What sides you have a lot of sides what which sides are we getting? I mean everyone’s got their go-to’s at a steakhouse. 36:54.91vigorbrandingWhat do we got in here? 36:57.19Nick _ AmandaOh, so I always loved the twice baked potato. I think it’s phenomenal. 37:00.35vigorbrandingI 37:00.52Nick _ AmandaI think it’s our go-to. We actually at one point were featured in, there was like a Idaho potato Gazette that came out and asked for an interview. 37:05.84vigorbrandingNice. 37:07.11Nick _ AmandaCause they’re like, Oh, we’ve heard that you’ve got the biggest potatoes. I was like, well, if it’s coming from the Idaho potato Gazette, I’m pretty honored to hear that. 37:12.47vigorbranding That’s great. 37:13.86Nick _ AmandaYeah. The twice baked is great. And then our cream corn. I love our cream corn. uh it’s got it it certainly got its sweetness from the corn and then we use cinnamon and i heard a customer described it as like it’s like taking a bite of christmas and i hadn’t heard that before and i was like that’s the perfectly summarized is kind of the cream corn and so it’s the i love to take a little cut of steak kind of 37:24.23vigorbrandingThere you go. 37:44.26Nick _ Amandadrag it through the cream corn a little bit to get some of that sweetness. And it’s ah to for me, it’s one of the most perfect bites. 37:49.86vigorbrandingFantastic. That’s awesome. And then what for dessert, I think I know the answer to this, but. 37:55.20Nick _ AmandaI mean, we i Our tableside desserts, they’re a ton of fun, right? 38:01.76vigorbrandingYep. 38:01.89Nick _ AmandaAnytime you’re going to light something on fire for a dessert, it’s awesome. 38:03.48vigorbrandingYeah, sure. 38:05.77Nick _ AmandaBut I think, you know, it’s in their classic, in their pure, in their simple, ah but executed very well. So, I mean, I’m partial. We do two tableside flambe options. 38:16.73Nick _ AmandaOur bananas foster our cherries jubilee. 38:18.43vigorbrandingMm hmm. 38:19.15Nick _ AmandaI am partial to the bananas. I think we use brown sugar with it. and A little banana liqueur, some 151, a little orange zest, and it is it is excellent. 38:27.87vigorbrandingnice 38:30.02Nick _ AmandaBut a Amanda has a separate opinion. So we ran this interesting test where a problem we were running into was, you know, when people make a reservation at the Valencia, let’s say states it’s a party of six, only one of you are probably giving us your information, whether it’s your phone or your email or what have you. 38:44.13Nick _ AmandaAnd so if you want to continue to build a relationship online with the rest of the party in there. 38:48.04vigorbrandingNice. 38:48.67Nick _ AmandaHow do you get them to go to your site or engage or have some sort of a back? 38:50.40vigorbrandingMhm. 38:52.28Nick _ AmandaAnd so we realized that what is really strong is our social media presence. We are one of the most, if not the most vile restaurant in America on TikTok. We just passed 175 million views of hashtag gold. 39:02.98vigorbrandingWow. 39:03.56Nick _ Amandayeah And so we were like, okay, what can we do to combine this in honor of our 65th? And how do we create what I call an organic trigger? So if you’re dining, you can do something else. And so I was like, okay, let’s play with the flames. What can we do? That’s going to be a flaming dessert that can be exciting, that can be different. And so we worked and created something called the Sapphire Jubilee in honor of the 65th anniversary. And of course you like throw some blue in there at the server’s head of it because they were always covered in like blue dust on their white shirts. 39:30.90Nick _ AmandaIt was a little messy, but it was fabulous. And it really did turn bright blue flames. And so the I was like, okay, let’s try it. We’re going to make it where you can only order it if you have the code word from TikTok or Instagram. 39:42.30vigorbrandingWow, I like it. 39:44.36Nick _ AmandaWe’ll look up on there or say something. Or then ah when the server says that to them, if they’ll follow us or try and find it. And sure enough, I was like, I have no idea how this is going to go. First night comes. And within like the first, I guess, hour of opening, boom, somebody ordered it with the code word. I’m like, all right, we’ve got something. And it was, to this day, it’s my favorite version of that flam bazer. 40:05.22vigorbrandingThat’s excellent. oh that’s and the The marketer in me is very proud and honored. 40:08.87Nick _ Amandaa 40:09.14vigorbrandingThat’s that’s fantastic. I mean, I love it. 40:10.55Nick _ Amandayeah 40:11.44vigorbrandingReally. i’ saids that’s ah It’s awesome. 40:11.84Nick _ Amandaand since sense that it’s 40:13.45vigorbrandingum So I had the banana foster and it was wonderful. 40:14.75Nick _ Amandaso as foster 40:17.86vigorbrandingum i So I have one last question for you guys, and and then you’re free to go. And you can’t say the golden steer, but if you have one final meal, what would you eat and why? 40:31.11Nick _ AmandaSo for me, ah it’s risotto. Risotto was probably one of the first dishes that I really started to make during culinary school and just kind of fell in love with. I am ah studied in Rome, Italian heritage, and i i love like to me, it’s like, 40:55.32Nick _ Amandasuch a pure distillation of Italian cooking. right it’s very at the At its core, it’s very simple, but there’s a lot of ways that you can that you can go wrong with it. um And it takes some work, right? You have to be standing over it with your wooden spoon, kind of slowly adding stock. 41:14.38Nick _ AmandaAnd it’s also a it’s kind of also almost a blank palate. So you can add orabela mushrooms or butternut squash or asparagus or any number of things. And so I think I would i love risotto and that would probably be my, that would be my five if I had to pick a final dish, that would be it. 41:33.19vigorbrandingNice. Amanda, you can say Nick’s risotto if you want. 41:34.49Nick _ Amandaand think 41:35.93vigorbrandingI mean, ah, nice. 41:36.61Nick _ AmandaIt’s close to that. So Nick was actually, was very kind and he he knows this well, but something that he makes for me on all of the special occasions is a beef wellington. And I’m very picky about how I like my beef wellington and all the things and he’s like really nailed it down. 41:51.40Nick _ AmandaI wasn’t before, he’s now like spoiled me and I blame him all the time. I’m like, you’ve created the monster here. So it would be the beef wellington that Nick does make for me because I do it amazing and it’s my favorite. 41:59.24vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Guys, I want to thank you. 42:01.92Nick _ Amandai 42:02.99vigorbrandingThis was fantastic. Like I said, the first time I ever had a couple and you guys were great. There was no fighting. It was close. I thought there for a while over the desserts, but that was good. 42:07.74Nick _ Amandayeah 42:09.71vigorbrandingThat was good. You guys do great. So thank you so much. It was my honor to talk to you guys and I really appreciate your time. 42:14.97Nick _ AmandaWell, thank you so much for having us on, Michael. low was ah It was an awesome conversation. We certainly appreciate being here. 42:20.11vigorbrandingGood deal. 42:20.09Nick _ AmandaPleasure.

Anand is the Founder and Managing Partner of Gala Capital Partners, a diversified investment and holding company with interests in chain restaurants, software & technology, real estate development, franchising and public equities investment. He has spent the past 35 years in various executive capacities within the Software, Real Estate & Restaurant Industries.Gala Capital Partners invests in (among other things) restaurants. The current portfolio includes CiCi's Pizza, Famous Dave's Barbeque, Rusty Taco and MOOYAH Burgers, Fries & Shakes.Anand grew up in the restaurant industry. His mother was an early franchisee with Jack in the Box. Anand's parents knew the restaurant industry was a difficult career path, so they encouraged Anand to pursue other careers. He graduated from USC with a degree in biology, but he was drawn back into the family business and fell in love with it all over again. When it comes to restaurants to invest in, Gala Capital Partners focuses on five key categories: burgers, chicken, tacos/Mexican, pizza and coffee. The brands that Gala Capital Partners focus on are between 25-350 units. They call those “adolescent brands.”  When evaluating successful franchises, Anand starts with the quality of the food. Focusing on quality and taste is the easiest way for a restaurant to stand out from the competition.  QUOTES “(The restaurant industry) is usually the first job for many young adults and teenagers. It teaches them work ethic, it teaches them responsibility.” (Anand)“When I returned to the (restaurant) business after university, I realized I could learn about finance, I could learn about accounting, I could learn about marketing, I could learn about HR, I could learn about IT, I could get into real estate. It was so multi-dimensional. It was remarkable and it just captivated me.” (Anand) “There were many, many humbling experiences. When you're 25 you have a great deal of confidence and bravado. I had a couple lessons that I learned the hard way and I think I'm far better off for it today.” (Anand) “I'd encourage each and every (restaurant) executive to go work a week and do that every single year. You don't know what a franchisee goes through and you don't know what a store manager goes through until you've done it.” (Anand)“Each and every one of our restaurant brands plays a significant role in how you serve the customer.” (Anand) “Our typical franchisee and the ideal profile is somebody who is new to franchising and really wants to get into the business and work in the business and be hands on in the stores. Or it's going to be someone in a smaller market of the family business and they've got anywhere from 3 to 30 locations and they really love being hands on and involved.” (Anand) “We want very active and hands on operators. People who want to be there and build relationships with their leadership teams, with their managers, with their employees. They want to participate and support their local communities. Those are the folks we're looking for.” (Anand)  TRANSCRIPT 00:01.44vigorbrandingHello, everyone. Today’s guest is Anand Gala of Gala Capital Partners. Put simply, Anand is an investor, and one of those investments is restaurants. But I’ve known him for quite a while, and I’m always blown away by his stories, his growth, and and everything in between. So this will be a great conversation. Anand, welcome to Fork Tales. Thanks for doing this program. 00:25.38Anand GalaAbsolutely. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Michael. 00:28.50vigorbrandingPerfect. Well, hey, so I know we were talking, catching up a little bit before because I’m fortunate to have known you for a while. um You know, I was saying, when people hear about Gala Capital Partners, it sounds ah very regal, which it is. It’s an amazing company and the growth is is astronomical, which we’ll talk about, but it didn’t really all start out that way, did it? 00:47.08Anand GalaYou know, no, it’s everybody’s got a, everybody’s got a story. I guess you can say everybody’s got a story. And mine is um is probably very familiar. 00:58.92Anand Galato many others that are you know that were raised in immigrant families that that came from humble beginnings. And it’s just a story of a lot of hard work. It’s a story of intentionality by my family, by my parents to really invest in me ah in an education around operations and around entrepreneurship that candidly none of us really knew we were doing at the time. 01:24.49vigorbrandingYeah, I mean, you you were literally, I think when I first met you, you you were a child basically being babysat by the dishwasher, right? You were in the restaurants at a young, young age. Talk a little bit about that. 01:34.34Anand GalaYeah, absolutely. So my mom was a franchisee of Jack in the Box. And that was early on when they just began franchising. I think she might have been franchisee number two. 01:45.49vigorbrandingWow. 01:45.60Anand GalaAnd that was 1982 or 83. I must have been eight or nine years old. And she started working 16, 18, 20 hours a day because you know that’s what an operator does. 01:56.08Anand GalaThat’s what an entrepreneur does. You have to figure it out. And I just didn’t see her very often. And so therefore, the best way for her to make sure that she had an eye on me and I spent time with her was for her to bring me to work. And that was daycare. That was after school care. That was vacations and holiday care. You know, that’s what it was. That’s how I spent my time. And so I literally grew up in the back of a restaurant ah and in some cases standing on a milk crate so I could see over the front counter and and talk to customers. But that that was it within eyesight and earshot. 02:27.89vigorbrandingThat’s great. And you know, the the restaurant business has to be in your blood. And obviously, yeah it was literally infused in you from a young age. And I think that’s, ah again, i you can’t help to learn, you can’t help to see. I think it’s one of the most incredible experiences ah for anybody ah is to work in a restaurant. You learn a lot about sales, you learn a lot about people, about hustle, about ah yeah just everything in in between, dealing with problems on your feet. When someone complains, it’s ah it’s ah it’s a phenomenal way to ah get an education, that’s for sure. 02:57.22Anand GalaAbsolutely. and i’ll And I’ll take it a step further. I think it’s fascinating because it not only teaches you all of the things that you mentioned, it’s usually the first job for many young adults or or teenagers. 03:07.18vigorbrandingMm hmm. 03:09.41Anand GalaIt teaches them work ethic. It teaches them responsibility. And one thing that candidly, I’m not sure how it gets taught other than maybe in the home or or through your church or temple or or what have you, 03:22.08Anand GalaBut it’s respect for others, regardless of the position that they’re in. ah It’s an appreciation for hard work and how much it takes to really earn a dollar. 03:32.67Anand GalaAnd the fact that people do what they do so that they can support themselves, their families, have some spending money, develop some independence, it’s remarkable. And, you know, those are lessons and values that don’t get taught very often in many other places. 03:46.25vigorbrandingYeah, no doubt. So okay, so you you youre you’re you’re young, you’re in the restaurant, you’re you’re eight, then you go to USC, right? And you you graduate with a degree in biology. ah So that was, you weren’t on the restaurant path, I don’t think at that point. So what happened there? Where were you headed? Where did you go? And where did how did you end up here? 04:04.53Anand GalaYeah, it’s, you know, don’t don’t all good restaurant operators go into the sciences? Of course. ah it it it is a It is a fascinating path and it’s one that, ah you know, my my parents recognized how hard the restaurant business was. And they wanted my brother and I to have a better life. They wanted us to get an education and and really not have to go through the trials and tribulations that they went through, as every parent wants for their children. 04:31.20Anand GalaSo they thought, hey, we’ll have our kids become doctors. ah That would be great. And I thought, boy, wouldn’t medical school be easier than running a restaurant until I, you know, I i took the ah med school entrance exams and and I tried a couple of interviews for for med schools and I realized that’s not what I wanted to do. I probably should have come to that conclusion much, much earlier in college, but I waited until the end. 04:54.40Anand GalaAnd, ah you know, I thought, okay, I’ll just go help out in the family business, because I know how to do that. And my parents thought, okay, you know, he’s gonna realize how hard this is, and he’ll change his mind quickly and run to med school. And as I got back into the business, I realized how much it just came second nature, how much I truly enjoyed it. And candidly, how much it had to offer. When I was growing up, I thought, boy, the only thing it has to offer is operations. 05:21.61Anand GalaAnd I got a great education and experience in operations. But when I returned to the business after university, I realized I can learn about finance. I can learn about accounting. I can learn about marketing. I can learn about HR. I can learn about IT. t I can get into real estate. there It was so multidimensional. It was remarkable. And it just captivated me. It drew me in. And I had an insatiable curiosity and appetite to learn. 05:47.54Anand Galaand And so every single day it drew me in further and further and further to the point that there was just no return. This was it. 05:54.51vigorbrandingthat’s That’s, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, so I mean, now we’ll jump into to to to life after after school, you you get involved as a is a franchisee, correct? That’s what you that’s that was your first sort of for you were young, I think you bought your first franchise, right? 06:11.11Anand GalaYeah, that’s right. So you know growing up in the restaurant space was fantastic. But the challenge at the time within Jack in the Box was there were a limited number of franchisees that were allowed to expand. And it was because the company was in a very large expansion phase for itself. And so in large markets like Houston and Los Angeles where we operated, there simply weren’t that many opportunities for us because the company had already scouted them out and had already tied them up. 06:40.93Anand GalaSo I left the family business when I was 25 and I became ah I think the youngest franchisee for Applebee’s and started building stores throughout California the exact same time same year I became I believe also the youngest franchisee for Del Taco at the time. 06:59.02vigorbrandingwow 06:59.12Anand GalaAnd I was 25 years old. I was building Applebee’s from Bakersfield to Fresno and and later in the Bay Area and was building Del Taco restaurants outside of Sacramento and Modesto and Stockton and small markets there as well as in Phoenix, Arizona. And so I was traveling a lot and I think when you’re young and you’re not married and you don’t have other responsibilities and You’ve got a lot of energy. 07:22.40Anand Galaah You can really you know push the push the pedal. And so I did. I learned a great deal during that period of time. And I learned a lot about what ah what I did know and what I didn’t know. 07:31.09vigorbrandingY 07:33.97Anand GalaI’ll tell you, there were many, many humbling experiences. 07:35.59vigorbranding‘all bet. 07:37.63Anand GalaBecause when you’re 25, you have a great deal of confidence and bravado. And I had a couple of lessons that I learned the hard way. And um I think i’m I’m far better off for it today. 07:49.97vigorbrandingYeah, we’ve learned a lot more from our mistakes and our wins, that’s for sure. 07:53.08Anand GalaYeah. 07:53.18vigorbrandingAnd ah so it’s it’s interesting too, because we’ll talk about this in a moment, but I mean, you know, obviously, ah you know, at Vigor, we do marketing for restaurants, and we deal with ah franchisees, and we deal with franchisors, the folks that own the brand and control the brand. 08:07.88vigorbrandingAnd and sometimes there’s, there’s dissension among the ranks. I mean, there’s, you know, and you’re you’re you’re on both sides of it. So I’ll be really interested to hear your perspective on the whole thing. 08:18.23Anand GalaYeah, yeah it’s it’s been a fascinating journey, having been a franchisee from 83 all the way to or 82, I guess all the way to, I think about 2014 is when we finally ah decided we were going to start selling and not start selling the brands, but we exited most of the brands that we were involved in. 08:35.37vigorbrandingMm hmm. 08:37.22Anand GalaAnd so prior to that, we had sold our jack in the box business and sold our Del Taco business and, and then by 2014 sold our Applebee’s business. And we we still our franchisees a famous day’s barbecue in California. 08:46.15vigorbrandingMm hmm. 08:49.86Anand Galaah But then starting in 2017, we started investing in and acquiring small franchiseurs. And what’s interesting is we took a very different approach to being a franchisor. Having walked a mile in the shoes of the franchisee, literally, and still being a franchisee, i I fundamentally understand the approach to business and the relationship that a franchisee has. And I try to bring that knowledge and experience and insight to the relationship that we bring as a franchisor. 09:23.64Anand GalaWe acknowledge that a franchisee makes their money off the bottom line and a franchisor makes their money off the top line. That being said, discounting your royalty is not the solution you because you want a financially strong franchisor that has the capital to make the investments in the people and the systems and the resources to really drive your business. 09:45.68Anand GalaIf you cut the royalty down to call it 1%, what’s left for them? 09:45.83vigorbrandingThat’s right. 09:48.63vigorbrandingMhm. 09:50.10Anand Galayou’re not gonna get the best talent, you’re not gonna get the best support. And so it becomes a vicious cycle if you go down that road. I think that what most franchisees ah do focus on and and I think many recognize is rather than try to reduce the royalty, let’s drive accountability and expectations with the franchise or to say we expect best in class marketing, best in class leadership, best in class operations, 10:11.11vigorbrandingMhm. 10:17.38Anand Galaum And so please make sure that you’re hiring those people, make sure that you’re driving those attributes ah through the brands, because that’s what makes us better. you know Please invest in us, please support us. And that’s how we try to bring the parties together. That doesn’t mean that we’re free of any discontent from time to time, but that’s our responsibility is to work through that. 10:42.35vigorbrandingSure. I mean, I’ve always said and I feel very strongly that empathy is probably one of the more powerful like emotions, if you will, and you know, understanding both sides of it from where you’re your you seat from growing up in it. And then being on the other side, it’s I think that’s very powerful to have that that understanding that that that intelligence that hey, I understand I’ve been in your shoes. I know what’s important to you. Here’s what’s important. And and there’s this partnership, right? 11:06.60vigorbrandingIt’s almost like you treat them with as family. ands they’re’re’re They’re a part of your company because they are. i mean they’re They’re your brand. right They’re an extension of it. 11:13.80Anand GalaAbsolutely, and I would even go a step further and I’d encourage each and every executive or leader in a franchise or to go work a week and do that every single year in the stores because honestly, you don’t know what a franchisee goes through. 11:23.83vigorbrandingYeah. Mm-hmm. 11:29.38Anand GalaYou don’t know what a store manager goes through until you’ve done it. You you may have the the best degrees on the wall. um and and lots of experience from lots of other brands, but until you really walk a mile and and do what they do, ah then I think you build a tremendous amount of credibility and and candidly empathy at the same time. 11:49.25vigorbrandingSure. 11:49.40Anand GalaSo I think it helps you connect with with lots of operators and franchisees. 11:55.71vigorbrandingThat’s great. So, okay. So one of your biggest investments was Muyah, burgers, fries, and shakes. Okay. So, and i I was fortunate. 12:01.37Anand GalaYeah. 12:02.41vigorbrandingI actually came out to see you. I was out in California and I ate at one of your, at one of your restaurants. Phenomenal. It was a great ah burger. I’m not just saying that now, but the thing is there’s lots of burgers out there. And I was quoted on a previous podcast. 12:13.42vigorbrandingah I had a gentleman by the name of Audley Wilson on who created a robo burger, which is the yeah ah basically the burger vending machine. 12:18.71Anand GalaYeah, yeah. 12:21.05vigorbrandingAnd, you know, ah my my line my line was no one American ever went bankrupt trying to feed America hamburgers. So, I mean, but there’s a lot of competition out there, isn’t there? I mean, how does how do you guys stand out? 12:30.45Anand Galathere There is. 12:31.03vigorbrandingI mean, you know, I mean, I know it’s ah a phenomenal product with great ingredients, but talk talk a little bit about dumuya. 12:38.44Anand GalaWell, i’ll I’ll frame it in a way that I think you’ll definitely get and I’m sure your audience will get, which is why compete with everybody else? Why play their game? they you know If you’re playing somebody else’s game, then you are automatically at a disadvantage because they’ve been playing it a lot longer. 12:54.46vigorbrandingMm hmm. 12:56.28Anand GalaThey created the rules. They’ve been doing this for a while and they know how to win. They’re gonna tilt the deck in their in their favor. So I think you have to decide what you do that is distinct, that is different. How do you define yourself? And so at Mujah, it’s a very simple approach. It’s better ingredients, it’s better quality, it’s better tasting, ah and it’s done with more hospitality, and it’s done fresh in store every day. And so that’s the approach we take, is that we wanna have fresh, never frozen meat, and we want it to be certified Angus beef, 13:33.11Anand Galawe fresh bake our buns in the stores every day, we hand cut our fries, you know, we only use the highest quality ingredients, and we don’t make anything until you order it. So these are all of the different things that we think are distinct and unique. 13:48.02Anand GalaAnd, you know, nobody ever um disliked high quality and great taste. 13:54.56vigorbrandingright 13:54.79Anand GalaSo our perspective is we’re going to compete on taste, on quality, on service, on experience. Now that may cost a little bit more, but candidly when you put it all together and you’re doing sort of the value formula, it still comes out to be a tremendous value because of what you get, not what you pay. 14:13.95vigorbrandingYeah, no doubt. So, okay, burgers aren’t your only restaurant. You’re you’re involved with a portfolio. you have You have pizza, tacos, coffee, and everything in between. what What criteria do you use when evaluating which restaurants to invest in? 14:27.84Anand GalaWell, your statement earlier, which was nobody ever lost money selling hamburgers to Americans, I would take it a step further and say, you know, there’s a bunch of different categories where 14:37.50vigorbrandingYeah. 14:38.40Anand GalaThe world already knows what you do and how to use your business or your product or your brand. And so we focus on five primary categories. That doesn’t mean that we won’t look at and invest in things around the periphery as well. But those five categories are burger, chicken, tacos or Mexican pizza and coffee. And not only are they pervasive in American society and candidly, I think foundational. 15:04.85Anand Galaum But I think that what American society culture and its tremendous marketing ah machine behind so many of its companies has done a great job of is exporting that culture around the world. 15:14.31vigorbrandingYeah. 15:18.82Anand GalaI can open up a coffee joint anywhere in the world and I can guarantee you that that local community knows exactly how to use that brand, that product, that concept. The same is true with pizza. The same is true with chicken. 15:30.19Anand GalaThe same is true with tacos and Mexican food. and And thank God for the Taco Bells and the Chipotle’s and so many others that have blazed a trail before us. um and And that end is, it for example, just in the Mexican category, but the same is true in each and every one of those categories. 15:48.21Anand GalaSo our primary focus is within these five big categories. 15:51.97vigorbrandingMm hmm. 15:52.18Anand GalaWe love these brands and we think we can bring a higher quality, better experience approach to each and every one of them. 15:59.57vigorbrandingIt’s fantastic. So you went from being a franchisee to now you own these brands and you own is it rusty taco, you have CC’s pizza, Dunn Brothers coffee, Muyah burger, what am I missing one? 16:12.76Anand GalaNope, that’s it, that’s it. 16:13.57vigorbrandingIs that it? 16:13.90Anand Galathose are the those Those are the main ones, yeah, absolutely. 16:14.05vigorbrandingOkay, good. I nailed it. Yeah, yeah. That’s fantastic. 16:17.73Anand GalaYeah, so we’ve we’ve we’ve invested in these brands and some of them we’ve got partners and you know we’re just excited. 16:18.25vigorbrandingSo 16:23.95Anand Galawe We think that each and every one of them plays a significant role in how you serve the customer. So for example, Cece’s Pizza is a buffet concept. 16:35.11Anand Galaum And people, you know they they may attribute buffet with a lower quality. I’ll tell you, if you walked into the back of a Cece’s, Everything is fresh. They make their dough in-store fresh every single day. 16:46.57Anand GalaThe quality of the ingredients is really, really high. in And I was very surprised by that. I mean, it’s it’s a really high quality product. um So I encourage folks to go and focus on the quality because you can’t go wrong. 16:58.93vigorbrandingHmm. 17:01.08Anand GalaYou’re you’re always going to have a better tasting product with a higher quality product. 17:02.21vigorbrandingHmm. That’s great. So now on the opposite end there, so how how do you then ah interview or evaluate potential like franchisees or investors? 17:15.40vigorbrandingHow does that work? I mean, again, playing both sides, these are your babies now. And you know you don’t want to just hand that that off to someone who’s got some money enough money to buy it. 17:19.65Anand GalaYeah. 17:23.70vigorbrandingit’s you know There’s got to be a lot more to it than that, especially for all the care that you put into it. 17:28.63Anand GalaWell, the brands that we focus on tend to be anywhere from 25 to 350 units. 17:33.92vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 17:34.33Anand GalaAnd so we call those adolescent brands. They’re past proof of concept. They’re in a couple of markets. um Maybe they’ve already started franchising. And you know maybe they’ve just hit a speed bump somewhere. 17:45.32Anand GalaMaybe they’re just out of favor. They’re not very sexy. But they are great businesses. As we think about it, every brand goes through a cycle. And there’s a cycle of of evolution and then innovation and then scaling up and so forth. 17:55.57vigorbrandingMm hmm. 18:00.85Anand GalaAnd so the same franchisee that’s a 300 unit KFC or Taco Bell franchisee may not be an ideal candidate for what we do. because they’re focused on scale. They’re focused on large markets controlling big pieces of the business. And candidly, we’re focused on folks that are really involved in their market. So our our typical franchisee and probably the the ideal profile of our franchisee is gonna be somebody who is either new to franchising but really wants to get into the business and work in their business um and and be hands-on and in the stores. 18:38.32Anand Galaor it’s gonna be somebody that’s probably in a smaller market or it’s a family business and they’ve got anywhere from three to 30 locations amongst whatever they’re involved in. 18:48.51vigorbrandingYeah. 18:50.53Anand GalaAnd they they really love being very hands-on, not to mean that they’re in the stores every day all the time, but they really enjoy being involved in their business. It’s not going to be just an investment for them. 19:03.06Anand GalaThey really they they believe this is it. And so we want very active hands-on operators. that’s the That’s the easiest way for us to describe them. ah and And so when somebody really knows their business, they know their business and they want to be there. 19:16.69Anand GalaThey want to, you know, build relationships with their with their leadership teams, with their managers, with their employees. They want to participate and support their local communities. Those are the folks that we’re looking for. 19:28.70Anand GalaAnd those are the ones that that do the best in our organization. 19:28.83vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 19:31.48vigorbrandingmost successful at the end of the day, right? 19:32.98Anand GalaYeah, absolutely. 19:33.61vigorbrandingVery cool. Probably like ah your mom was, right? When she started out, you know? 19:36.82Anand GalaThat’s right. That’s right. 19:39.60vigorbrandingI mean, it you know, it all comes back around. So when when you look at like a successful growing restaurants or I guess brands to maybe invest in or buy, um is there a common denominator? Is it always like that sort of fresh type of thing? 19:50.01vigorbrandingOr is there anything that you have in your criteria that you’re that you’re really kind of honing in on as far as there’s something you’re seeing in the market that you that you’re that you find to be ah ah successful or you think will be successful? 20:01.93Anand GalaYou know, the the ingredients are very simple. um First and foremost, we start with the food. And interestingly, a lot of people look at franchises and they just see it as a business. 20:13.19Anand GalaThey don’t think of it as what does the business do. So we always, as I mentioned earlier, we have a ah disproportionate focus on quality. 20:20.47vigorbrandingThat’s 20:21.19Anand GalaAnd so we start with the food. I think in in a world where there is so much commoditization and so much a sea of sameness across so many different brands and products, the the easy way to stand out is focus on quality, focus on taste. 20:23.39vigorbrandinggreat. 20:38.35Anand GalaPeople go out to eat because food tastes good. If you wanted bad food or you wanted bland food, you could probably just do that yourself. But you go to restaurants because they’re known for something. 20:49.96Anand GalaAnd so we wanna make sure that when you come in and you’re getting something that we are known for, that you say that’s a darn good, whatever it is, taco, burger, pizza, that’s a darn good ah you know beverage, coffee, tea, you know whatever that was. And you wanna say, geez, I’m glad I went out for that rather than trying to make something at home. 21:10.45Anand GalaSo distinctly, it’s gotta be darn good. Now from there, we look at the bones of the business and usually we’re investing in things that we think we can substantially improve. 21:22.44Anand GalaWhether it’s unit count, whether it’s quality or process or profitability, but if the product itself is pretty darn good, then you can work on the rest. 21:31.08vigorbrandingMm hmm. 21:31.73Anand GalaYou can figure out how to get them to better profitability, faster growth, ah yeah what whatever it may be, we think we can help. 21:32.06vigorbrandingMm hmm. 21:39.94vigorbrandingYeah. but You make a really good point, a very stupid one, especially when it comes to food. like you know Obviously, we have the vigor brand for the markets, restaurants, but we also have ah an agency called Quench. It does food and beverage and CPG. 21:51.67vigorbrandingAnd what we’ve known and noticed is you know when the economy is down, sure, there’s there’s a reason out there for dollar menus and there’s saving stuff. But you know the the place where people will, for lack of a better word, treat themselves is is what they put in their mouths, right? 22:04.79vigorbrandingI mean, so they’ll they’ll they’ll still pay for premium ice cream. 22:05.31Anand GalaAbsolutely. 22:08.35vigorbrandingwhen it’s when things aren’t so good because that’s that that little pleasure they can have it’s not it’s not you know obviously it’s not some overindulgence or ah a great expense but a great burger i mean it’s pretty it brings a lot of joy you know so yeah 22:21.99Anand GalaIt’s the little things that bring you joy. I couldn’t agree more. I’ll tell you, you know, I didn’t understand the difference in the various qualities of ice cream, ah except in the CPG aisle, right? you You knew that you could get the store brand, which was one thing. And don’t get me wrong, it’s tasty. And it’s a nice treat. Or you could go for the super premium with a very high butterfat. 22:42.97Anand GalaUm, and, and so I thought, well, geez, I guess this experience only exists in the grocery aisle until one day I tried a Brewster’s or a Handel’s ice cream. 22:53.69Anand GalaUh, and, and I was blown away. Now it’s not the kind of thing that you’re going to go for every day or every week. 22:59.51vigorbrandingRight. 23:00.35Anand GalaBut when I think about having ice cream, I can go to a lot of different places, or I can just say when I go out for ice cream. as infrequently or frequently as that is, I just wanna get something that I know is gonna be so delicious. 23:14.33vigorbrandingright. 23:15.67Anand GalaAnd I’m gonna go to the place where it’s just gonna knock my socks off. And I’ll pay just a little bit more and I’m okay with that. I just won’t do it as often. But I want it when I want and it. And I’ll tell ya, it’s the service, it’s the quality, it’s the taste. 23:29.23Anand GalaThose things combined create the addiction that you just have to have it. 23:32.64vigorbrandingThat’s it. and I’m sure in most of your brands, you have a lot of repeat clients coming in because they’re they’re getting the quality, they see the quality, they taste the quality, and it’s worth it. It’s an ongoing, probably, I’m sure it becomes habitual. so that’s That’s fantastic. so okay I want to talk about like the ru last year, I think it was last year, you bought Rusty Taco and Dunn Brothers. 23:53.84vigorbrandingum with Gala Capital. He did it with ah an all cash deal. So you didn’t take on any debt. um Talk to me about cash deals and and what are the advantages, disadvantages, and I know you’re you’re adverse to debt. I i am too. So I absolutely respect that. So talk to me a little bit about that and how you how you’ve done all that. 24:10.94Anand GalaWell, you know but in in both cases, they needed some investment. They needed some love. And if you put leverage on a business, you’ve got a lot of reporting requirements. You’ve got you know metrics that you’ve got to hit, ratios you’ve got to hit and report to your bank. It it puts constraints on you. 24:28.99Anand GalaDebt is not bad. Debt is fine. It’s a tool to grow a business. But the business has to be ready to grow in a meaningful way. And it’s got to be pretty stable and strong ah in order to continue to fulfill those criteria that your bank is going to ask you about. And in the case of these two brands, we thought that these businesses needed some work. They weren’t they weren’t bad businesses, but they just needed some work. 24:55.76Anand GalaAnd our perspective is we’d rather do that with our own money and do it in a way that we don’t have a lot of constraints on us. We can make the investments that we need to make that are for the long run. And that may be five years, 10 years, 20 years, but when you’ve got ah when you’ve got debt, you know you really need to focus on cash flow rather than making those investments that need to happen and pay off over the long period of time. 25:20.85Anand Galabecause you’ve got to service that debt. So our perspective is let’s do it where we’ve got a lot of freedom, a lot of flexibility. Let’s go ahead and make these investments. We’ll do it with all cash. And that way we’ve got a little more control over what we do, when we do, how we do. And as we get these things ready and we’re starting to grow them and scale them up, then we’ll look at what can they support reasonably. And we’ll we’ll probably put a little bit of debt on each of these businesses, but it’ll be some time in the future. 25:50.74vigorbrandingGotcha. That makes total sense. so So when you’re working on on a new franchise, um you always you make it a point to have very detailed conversations with current franchisees, which is is very smart. um How does that process work? And you know what do you learn you know from those conversations? 26:08.06Anand GalaWell, I think that there are some franchisees that candidly have just been waiting for the phone to ring so they can talk to somebody. It is fascinating to me how infrequently folks are speaking to franchisees, including executives of brands. 26:22.83Anand GalaThey think they’ve got it all figured out and they’re just gonna send the memos out and send the promotions out and everybody needs to get on board. Now, in in many cases, that may be true, but you do need, this is a team effort. You gotta remember, the franchisee puts up the money. The franchisee runs that restaurant. 26:40.17Anand Galayou You know, they’re taking more risks than the franchise or. And so you have to respect them as effectively your partner in the business. And you don’t always have to agree. They did sign an agreement. You do control the intellectual property and you’re going to set the the tone and the direction of the brand and the business. But it’s a collaboration. 27:00.32Anand Galaand And I think no different than in a successful marriage or a successful partnership or even in a successful corporate environment. You have to find a way to effectively communicate with your peers. And I consider the franchisees to be our peers. So we want to hear them. We want to listen to them. We want to take their ideas and their feedback into consideration. And ah you know, listen, we’re we’re not the ones that have it all figured out. 27:24.87Anand GalaAs the old saying goes, some of the best ideas come from the franchisees because they are toeto toe to toe face to face with the customer. 27:30.43vigorbrandingYeah. 27:31.97Anand GalaThey see the behavior. 27:32.45vigorbrandingThat’s it. 27:32.93Anand GalaThey see the interaction every single day more often than we do. That’s for sure. 27:38.07vigorbrandingYeah, they’re the boots on the ground. Have you ever backed away um from a deal based on and you certainly don’t have to mention any names, but have you ever backed away from a deal based on some feedback that you’ve heard from the franchisees? It kind of scared you off a little bit. 27:48.85Anand GalaYou know, we have, we have actually. 27:50.73vigorbrandingWow. 27:50.94Anand Galaah there There were concerns in one brand that we looked at and there were a number of franchisees that said, geez, you know, um I’m not making money. I’m losing a lot of money. I can’t keep doing this. 28:02.56Anand GalaI’m just gonna close my store down. And we heard that over and over and over again. So then you have to think to yourself, what am I really buying? And and maybe the investment banker did a great job in polishing this thing up and and putting a story behind it. 28:16.29Anand GalaBut, you know, when you really get to the reality of it, this wasn’t gonna be much of a brand for much longer. And so we have to make the hard decisions that we either are gonna say, no, thank you, or we’re gonna you know we’re going to have to recommend a price adjustment um because we think in order to really stem the stem the loss there of franchisees, we’re gonna have to put a lot of incentive in place. We’re gonna have to make a big investment into them and their marketing and their operations. And that changes the economics of a deal. 28:48.13vigorbrandingYeah, I mean, that that that that totally, totally tracks. I mean, and it’s it’s interesting because yeah as an agency, too, we’ve we’ve had several situations where, and we were talking about this earlier, you were on both sides, the franchisee-franchise, or I think that’s really, in a way, your superpower. I think your empathy and the understanding really is ah is ah is it a massive benefit ah in your in your world. and ah But many times, we’ve been asked to for lack of a word act like the whatever you call it bulletproof vest liaison mediator between the the franchisees and the franchisor and I always felt like that was like uh I mean we’re happy to do it as an agency but I always felt like that that that just it signals that there’s a really a communication gap you know what I mean that to you really should you know yeah 29:29.90Anand GalaOh, I think you’re right. I think you’re right. I encourage people have the hard conversations. I’m not saying that you’re gonna be comfortable doing it. They they are uncomfortable conversations, but it that’s just life. 29:43.08Anand GalaThat’s just life. 29:44.79vigorbrandingYeah, no doubt. All right. Well, let’s have some fun with us now. How, I mean, you have a lot of restaurants. 29:47.59Anand GalaYeah. 29:49.23vigorbrandingI mean, obviously you can, you have your choice every day. I’m sure you do, but you, you eat in your restaurants that you invest in, correct? 29:55.66Anand GalaOh, every week, every single week, yep. 29:56.65vigorbrandingOkay. That’s what I wanted to ask you. How often and like, what, you know, is it a coffee thing? Then I’ll get a pizza one day and maybe a burger the next. 30:03.48Anand GalaYeah, I’ll mix it up, exactly. 30:04.69vigorbrandingNice. Nice. Nice. All right. So now I want to get your opinions on some of the menu items in your restaurants and your current portfolio. 30:10.38Anand GalaOkay. 30:11.59vigorbrandingOkay. So what’s the best burger on the menu at Mujah? What’s your go-to? 30:16.68Anand GalaYou know, so so Best Burger, that’s such a personal question, right? Everybody’s got their own approach. Mine, I’m i’m a real fan of what made them successful, right? What is their core product? And for us, our core classic is the Muyad Double Cheeseburger. 30:37.47vigorbrandingNice. 30:37.60Anand GalaMan, it is just such a amazing, delicious burger the way that it should be made. It’s it’s fantastic. If I’m feeling indulgent, i’ll I’ll pop some jalapenos on there, but oh, it’s my go-to. 30:48.61vigorbrandingUh, I’m getting hungry. I didn’t eat lunch today. So I’m, you know, I’m with East coast. So I’m, I’m, I’m ready. 30:54.19Anand GalaYeah. 30:54.60vigorbrandingThat’s, that’s fantastic. All right. CCs. If you’re building your own pizza, what are we getting? 30:59.66Anand GalaSo again, I’m a classic kind of guy. It’s gonna be probably a pepperoni, ah but I’ll tell you what, if you haven’t had it, 31:01.97vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 31:07.71Anand GalaCece’s is known for a mac and cheese pizza. 31:12.16vigorbrandingOh, wow. 31:12.46Anand GalaNow, it’s not something you’re gonna eat every day, but it is definitely something you have got to try. It is addictive. 31:19.32vigorbrandingI’ll take your river. I’m Italian. So I’m, you know, Mac and cheese. We never put it on pizza. I don’t know. So, but that’s definitely and both good foods. 31:22.99Anand GalaI know, I know. It sounds wacky, but you just gotta give it a shot one day. 31:28.54vigorbrandingYou know, put it together. You know, it’s like peanut butter and jelly probably. So maybe, maybe it works. 31:31.22Anand GalaYeah. 31:32.65vigorbrandingah Famous Dave’s barbecue. You ribs, chicken or catfish? 31:36.50Anand GalaBoy, I’m gonna throw you for a loop here. um Although I love all three of those, but you’ve gotta try the brisket. 31:44.14vigorbrandingAh, okay. 31:44.11Anand GalaOh my goodness, it is fantastic. 31:45.58vigorbrandinglove I do love brisket. 31:47.29Anand GalaNow, if i’m if I’m not having the brisket, it’s the St. Louis style ribs. Hands down, the juiciest, meatiest ribs I’ve ever had in my life. They are, oh, they’re addictive. 31:59.10vigorbrandingYou’re you’re not not just the owner, you’re you’re you’re obviously a connoisseur and a fan, so and comes that comes through. That’s not marketing, I can tell. All right, Dumb Brothers Coffee. how what What are we ordering there? like what What’s your go-to there? 32:10.93Anand GalaSo if you don’t know much about Dunn Brothers, we roast our coffee fresh in the locations. 32:15.52vigorbrandingUh-huh. 32:17.25Anand GalaThat is really unique. um And so the coffee you’re having, or coffee-based drink you’re having, the coffee that goes into that has been roasted within the last few days. 32:27.48vigorbrandingBe a test. 32:27.62Anand GalaThat, if you haven’t tried fresh roasted coffee, is remarkable. You can truly, truly taste the difference. 32:35.40vigorbrandingUh-huh. 32:36.61Anand GalaSo for me, it’s just what is the um the the micro lot or special roast that they have during that time frame? And it’s that with maybe just a little bit of milk or just a splash of cream, but just trying to keep it simple so you really get all the real flavors and notes of that coffee coming through. 32:57.21Anand GalaSo I’m a simple guy when it comes to coffee. 32:57.36vigorbrandingAbsolutely. Yeah. Hey, i mine’s just black with a few ice cubes in it. You know, I call it the grandma Agnes move. 33:02.69Anand GalaYeah. 33:03.95vigorbrandingMy grandmother used to always put ice cubes in her coffee. 33:05.46Anand GalaYeah. 33:06.56vigorbrandingAnd so I’ve been drinking coffee all my life, but I love just black ice, black coffee with a little ice cubes in it. And I said, I don’t do the triple latte half oat milk. 33:12.68Anand Galaso So you’re saying that grandma invented, grandma invented iced coffee. 33:15.46vigorbrandingyeah There you go. 33:17.38Anand GalaThat’s what you’re telling me. 33:18.12vigorbrandingyeah It’s not even ice, just a few ice cubes just so I don’t burn my mouth. And it’s probably because I like to drink coffee and I don’t, you know, so it’s not, not loaded with ice, just, you know, a few ice cubes just to cool it off. 33:21.75Anand GalaAh, okay. 33:26.57vigorbrandingRight? So very, very sensitive lips. 33:27.05Anand GalaAll right. 33:29.61vigorbrandingOkay. Rusty taco, pork, beef, shrimp, chicken. 33:31.44Anand GalaYes, sir. 33:34.24Anand Galayou gotta to try the Rusty Taco. It’s the original named for our founder, the namesake. 33:36.79vigorbrandingOkay. home 33:40.53Anand GalaIt’s it’s ah it’s pork with some chunks of pineapple. ah It’s just, I mean, it’s a classic taco, ah which which is the foundation of what Rusty built the brand upon. 33:53.80Anand GalaNow we’ve got a bunch of others and and they’re very sort of Tex-Mex, Taqueria style tacos that are really delicious. So there’s that one. And then I would say, ah Boy, that’s that’s the that’s my go-to every single time, yeah. 34:08.65vigorbrandingPerfect. That’s perfect. So, okay. 34:11.72Anand GalaOh, by the way, if yeah if you haven’t tried, um the queso at Rusty Taco is off the charts. People don’t know that we have it, but we’ve got nachos and you can do that with the queso and you can do brisket or pulled pork or you know any kind of topping you want on there, just off the charts, fantastic. 34:27.40vigorbrandingPerfect. 34:30.84vigorbrandingWell, you’re killing me. Like I said, I haven’t eaten lunch yet. It’s going to one o’clock. So this is this is this is all good. I got to figure out what i’m gonna we’re going to have now. It’s all going through my head. So, okay. What’s what’s up? What’s next for, for, for gala partners? I mean, is there anything else on the horizon? I mean, obviously if you can’t talk about, it you can’t talk about, but anything that you’re, any categories you’re excited about, anything you’re kind of looking at, it anything you can talk about there. 34:52.63Anand GalaYou know, honestly, we’re excited about what we have in the portfolio. we We have so much runway with every one of these businesses that we have that it’s really got to be something special to get our attention. 34:55.64vigorbrandingAbsolutely. 34:58.52vigorbrandingabsolutely 35:02.75Anand GalaAnd right now we just haven’t seen anything that’s that special. So we just double down on what we have and we’re just going deep, going long. 35:09.62vigorbrandingMm hmm. 35:10.05Anand Galayou know With Dunn Brothers, we just expanded into K-Cups and into CPG, so we’re we’re pushing some of our coffee through some grocery stores. 35:10.52vigorbrandingWait. 35:14.74vigorbrandingWow. 35:19.48Anand Galaum We’re going to be redoing, redesigning, and relaunching our direct-to-consumer website and e-commerce pretty soon. We’ve got several new stores and new prototypes in the hopper. 35:30.40Anand GalaThe same is true with Rusty. We’re opening, I think, it’s eight or nine locations this year. um And Muya, we just opened two of our ah very first drive-through locations, both company owned. We want to get the the ball rolling on drive-throughs. And so we’re excited to prove that model out. And so far, the customers love it. 35:48.57vigorbrandingYeah, well, you brought up a couple really, I think, important points. You did load up on a lot of these brands here very recently. And yeah you happened, I mean, no pun intended, but it seems like you covered every food group, like everything that’s important as far as coffee, pizza, burgers, taco, I mean, you know, boy, it’s, ah yeah, yeah, literally, yeah, you nailed it, you nailed it. 35:58.28Anand GalaYeah. Our plate is full. 36:05.78vigorbrandingSo, I mean, it it does make a lot of sense to really kind of drive all that. And and the other thing you brought, which i I personally see a lot is, You know, with our company, you know, we we have about five different agencies in our in our portfolio. and And one being Quench is CPG food and beverage, which is very different than restaurants. They just happen to sell foods. We have another company called Vigor that just does restaurant expertise. But it’s amazing how many are doing the, we have this product, it’s people find it in the restaurant, it’s great marketing, they have it, they love it, like your coffee. 36:35.42vigorbrandingAnd all of a sudden, it’s slotted over CPG. 36:35.64Anand GalaMm hmm. 36:37.06vigorbrandingAnd it’s like people, hey, I i love that coffee. It’s fresh. it’s ah And I walk into the store, and I can buy it. And it’s ah such a smart move. ah but You see it both ways. I’ve seen it from the CPG side going into restaurants, and the restaurant side going into CPG. 36:48.29Anand GalaYeah. 36:49.56vigorbrandingSo I think that’s ah it’s a really, really smart move. 36:49.67Anand GalaYeah, absolutely. 36:52.78vigorbrandingNow, I have one last question. And you know it’s going to be hard for you, probably the hardest thing you have to answer all day, because you can’t you can’t say one of your restaurants. 36:54.72Anand GalaYes, sir. 37:00.72vigorbrandingIf you had one last final meal, what would you eat, where, and 37:00.96Anand GalaAll right. 37:05.55vigorbrandingWith who? 37:08.26Anand GalaBoy, that is a great question. ah First of all, with whom it’d be my family. Hands down, there’s nobody else who I wanna spend time with as often as possible than with my parents and my wife and my kids and my brother and his family. 37:26.81Anand GalaMy family means everything to me. What would the meal be? It’s gotta be something that everybody loves. And so when I think about what does everybody love, it’s probably pizza. 37:36.68vigorbrandingThere 37:38.26Anand Galaeverybody loves pizza. 37:39.72vigorbrandingyou go. 37:40.24Anand GalaAnd you can customize it every which way you want. Where would I go? My goodness. Or what would I have it? There’s a there’s a restaurant in Los Angeles, which ah I truly, truly enjoy. 37:56.39Anand GalaI can’t ever think that I had a bad meal there. And it’s an Italian restaurant. They happen to have amazing pizza. It’s called Osteria Mozza. 38:05.65vigorbrandingNice. 38:05.67Anand GalaAnd they have a a sister brand called Pizzeria Mozza. And the it’s just some of the best food I’ve ever had in my life. It’s the service. It’s the quality. It’s the flavors. 38:17.73Anand GalaIt’s everything all combined. 38:20.04vigorbrandingFantastic. 38:20.05Anand GalaAnd I don’t even remember what I spent. I’m sure it was too much. But, oh man, it’s so memorable. 38:25.90vigorbrandingWell, hey, back to your the concepts on your burger, right? I mean, if it’s a if it if the food hits the mark, you you you really don’t care what you spend. I mean, you know you know it’s it don’t be for those, but quality and and you know it’s it’s so, so important. And you were very smart and you’re a smart guy, you covered it. So if your if your family or anybody in your family watches this podcast, you know you answered the right, you had the right answer. with Only with my family. So that’s fantastic. 38:50.99vigorbrandingand you’re You’re amazing. I love watching what you’ve been doing. it’s It’s a pleasure to talk to you and it’s great knowing you and I look forward to the next time I see you. it Thanks a lot. 39:00.65Anand GalaAbsolutely. Look forward to it. I’ll see you soon. All right. Take care. bye 

Andy is president of Gellert Global Group. The company imports more than 5,500 unique food items from more than 60 countries and is one of the largest food importers in the world. Gellert Global Group is home to 12 companies, led by Atalanta, the largest privately-held food importer in the U.S.Gellert Global is a third-generation family-run business. The Gellert Global Group comprises many of the leading North American food-importing companies and has been importing food products for over 100 years. The combined revenues of the Group exceed $1.7 billion.The Gellert Global family includes Andy's sister, brother and cousin. Andy's father and uncle are also part of the company. Andy's father, George, was recently inducted into the New Jersey business hall of fame. Gellert Global's goal is to be a part of every food and beverage experience. Andy and his team use a variety of factors to determine which products and brands to partner with, including trends and the needs of customers. QUOTES “Some of these family businesses and you hear about fighting and people not getting along. I think we're successful because we keep growing and there's enough things for everyone to do and for everyone to bring value.” (Andy) “You want (joining the family business) to happen organically. It's a fun business. There's opportunities for (family) to join if they want. There's no obligation to come in. We'd like them to come in, but we don't want to make a rule that they have to come in.” (Andy) “Network is important to my father. I learned that from him early on. Being a part of YPO (Young President's Organization), I love leveraging my network. I like investing in early-stage CPG's and helping and leading them to other opportunities.” (Andy) “We don't want to lose direction. We're very big and we're happy where we are but we're not in a rush to get to two billion. We're going to get there smart. If it means pairing down and doing SKU rationalization to be more profitable, all the better.” (Andy) “It's really all about efficiency. As you get bigger you can be more efficient, but you have to be diligent.” (Andy) “We're an importer of products so our products are expensive already. We're always looking for ways to (save). You always have to turn over rocks to look for more opportunities.” (Andy) “I love eating. I love food experiences. I love being surprised. I like going to a chef and saying ‘Just surprise me. Just give me what you do best.'” (Andy)  TRANSCRIPT 00:00.45Andy GellertBye. 00:01.87vigorbrandingHey there, welcome to Fork Tales. I’m ah Michael Pavone, and I’m happy to really get a chance to talk to a good friend of mine. ah Today we have Andy Gellert here. He’s a good friend I’ve known for and respected for a long, long time. Andy’s the president of Gellert Global Group, one of the largest food importers in the world. ah They import more than 2,500 product lines from more than 60 countries. Andy, thank you so much for being here. 00:27.05Andy GellertMike, always a pleasure, always great seeing you, and nice seeing your smiling face, and I love hanging out with you. We’re always having a lot of fun together. 00:34.39vigorbrandingYeah, absolutely. You know, if they if they have music for this in the beginning, you know, I was going to, I was going to change up our, our forktails music and have a little. 00:41.11Andy GellertListen, I don’t like to brag about my my my my my my my my my beautiful voice. where You saw me on stage with Welcome Pepper a long time ago. I hung that up a long time ago. 00:52.98Andy GellertI got straight into the food business, Mike. I can’t cant just think my life away, you know? 00:54.81vigorbrandingYeah. The little salt and pepper in the beginning of this thing i gets us off on everything and everything. The thing is, Andy, I have known you for a long time, but I love doing these interviews because I always learn more. so it’s like I might have seen you over the years at these shows and get to hang out and you know have a drink together, but you know when you’re digging a little deeper about the family business and about the food industry and and all of that, it’s just I’m always blown away. and your Your company and your family, which is the company, is absolutely amazing. 01:21.57vigorbrandingSo tell us a little bit about Gellert Global Group and know what they do. 01:24.57Andy Gellertbut i mean like Next year we’ll celebrate our 80th birthday and we’re very excited. and As I said, you know I’m third generation and I live i live food. It’s a passion of mine. I love all aspects of the food industry. and you know like My grandfather started this in 1945. 01:46.38Andy Gellertimporting meats from Eastern Europe and seafood. We’ve grown and got other lines of businesses in. We’re selling food service, retail, manufacturing, cruise line. 01:57.56Andy GellertWe’re now involved in, you know thanks to YPO, I’m i’m involved in the franchise business. By the end of the year, we’ll have 55 guys. Thanks to our good friend Dan Rowe. 02:05.09vigorbrandingWow. Yeah. 02:07.17Andy GellertWe’re introducing their first one. And you know we invest in food businesses and it’s just, ah We’re all about food. I tell everyone I hit my belly, it’s this is R and&D. 02:17.29Andy GellertThis is R and&D. I mean, 02:20.68vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. Now, you know, I know family owned, super important. I know you treat everyone like family because I’ve seen you around ah customers, employees, the whole thing, but your dad, he is an older gentleman, but still very much involved in the business. Is that correct? 02:35.09Andy Gellert86. I went to his house to play tennis at 6 o’clock in the morning today. We play with people from our company. He loves it like he’s, my mom goes away for the summer. 02:45.63Andy GellertHe’s having, ah lot this summer is incredible. He’s 86. Every, twice a week, he has people from the company come over and have dinner and just different groups of people. 02:52.74vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 02:53.86Andy GellertAnd and he loves what he does. It’s it’s it’s really it’s really an honor to to to work with him and and watch him. he loves He loves his suppliers. 03:04.49Andy GellertWe love our bankers. We love our employees. It’s all about, you know, yeah he’s all, he’s all about people. And it’s really great. 03:11.81vigorbrandingYeah. 03:12.97Andy GellertI said this summer at the fancy food show, he was honored with a lifetime achievement award. And it’s such a good honor to see him up there and enjoying all the success of the role we’ve done together. 03:22.47vigorbrandingWell, it’s so well deserved. He deserved that honor. The company’s amazing. But you should give him a break. I mean, I think you you put sneakers on him. 03:28.24Andy GellertHe loves, 03:28.57vigorbrandingi had He had sneakers on in the booth to run around. I mean, you know. 03:32.00Andy Gellertyou know, listen, like I said, he works out before we play tennis in the morning and He’s all about the next activity and what we’re doing next. So, you know. 03:39.84vigorbrandingThat’s it’s fantastic. how many So how many members of the family are currently working in the company? 03:45.07Andy GellertSo today we have my sister, my brother, and my cousin in my generation. And my cousin who, my other cousin who runs the Five Guide business. And then I have my father and my uncle. 03:56.25Andy GellertSo there’s, you know, three, six of us, you know. 03:58.55vigorbrandingthat’s great 03:59.47Andy GellertAnd we’re getting ready for the third generation. 03:59.41vigorbrandingand look 04:01.81Andy GellertHopefully, you know, there are nine kids in the next generation. Hopefully one of them or two of them will come in and we’re we’re excited. It’s all about, you know, we love what we do and there’s a lot to do. 04:12.31Andy GellertAnd, you know, some of these family businesses, you know, the family, you hear about them and they’re fighting and they’re not getting a along. 04:18.50vigorbrandingThat’s 04:19.38Andy GellertI think we’re being successful because we keep growing and there’s enough things that everyone can do and everyone brings value that no one’s stepping each other’s toes. 04:25.06vigorbrandinggreat. 04:27.57Andy GellertWe’re all different, we but we appreciate each other’s opinion and listening to each other. We argue, but, you know, we all, we we get her off our chest and we move forward. You know? 04:36.10vigorbrandingWould you go out and play tennis, right, and solve it over the own tennis court? 04:37.88Andy GellertExactly. We stopped it on the court. We stopped it on the court. 04:40.98vigorbrandingSo you the kids, are are they are they interested? are they old not I don’t know how old they are. Are they old enough to be getting close? 04:47.10Andy GellertSo I think um my daughter my daughter is a social worker therapist. I don’t think she’s going to come in, you know. But my, you know, my other two ah potentially will come in. 04:57.29Andy Gellertone One probably more likely than the other. 04:57.44vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 04:59.68Andy GellertOther is in the real estate industry. And then my sister’s kids potentially were there and my brother’s kids were a little bit younger. So I definitely think at least three or four will come in for the next generation. But in the meantime, we keep growing and getting bigger and and looking at opportunities and we have fun. Why why are we doing it? 05:17.12vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Well, so in in your situation, I mean, we’re we’re of a generation, you and I, I’ll say that, like, did you, did you have a choice or did you always know that this is what I’m going to do or I want to do it? Or did you, did dad put a little pressure on you and say, Hey, look, you know, you got to do your thing. 05:32.22Andy GellertI did everything wrong in the family business. youre They all that go out and get the outside experience. And I came right in. 05:38.08vigorbrandingyeahh Yeah. 05:38.43Andy GellertAnd it was difficult. I’m not going to say it was a piece of cake. And my brother was a lot. 05:41.30vigorbrandingYeah. 05:44.06Andy Gellertyou know He went to business school. He went to law school. He worked in private banking. And then he came in. So it it made a lot of sense. And my sister, the same thing. yeah I did everything wrong but it’s good to know, it’s good to do it because then you know you’re not going to repeat it. 05:57.78Andy GellertSo you know my son who who definitely looks forward to maybe joining one day says he want he wants to spend three or four years you know the outside and coming in. 05:58.16vigorbrandingYeah. 06:05.42vigorbrandingyeah 06:08.26Andy GellertHe says he doesn’t like his boss I’m like that’s good get used to it. you Get used to it better than me you know. 06:12.52vigorbrandingGet used to it, right? 06:17.21vigorbrandingWell, you know, that’s I had the same rule with my girls. I mean, I don’t know that they’ll ever want to come into it. Why would anyone would go to an advertising agency or come into a marketing firm? But if they would, I said they had to work somewhere for two years and get one promotion. 06:28.93vigorbrandingAnd thankfully, they’ve both been doing that. 06:29.31Andy GellertYeah. 06:31.08vigorbrandingIn fact, they’ve been doing it for a while now, so maybe they’re not interested. So ah they may have dodged the bullet or maybe I have. But I just think our generation was one of those things where, you know, yeah, go do what you want to do, but you’re coming into the company kind of thing, you know. 06:43.02vigorbrandingI started my own business, I didn’t go to my dad’s company but I mean it was one of those things where I just think a lot of folks, it was just I guess different. ah Now I think with, I’ll say with my daughters and probably your kids like go out and do your thing and if you’re interested talk to me, don’t you know, don’t don’t not talk to me about it but you know, no pressure, that kind of thing. 07:00.05vigorbrandingYou know, it’s just a little different. 07:01.20Andy GellertYeah you want it to happen organically and you know listen he he comes around a lot of the meals and the family all gets together and a lot of time is talking about work so he’s interested and you know he spends weekends he came to the fancy food show they all came I can see what’s going on and it’s it’s a fun business so I think there’s opportunities for them in the future if they want but there’s no pressure we’re growing we we have a lot of we’ve done a great job of hiring a lot of outside ah you know ah 07:03.16vigorbrandingYeah. 07:19.45vigorbrandingYeah. 07:30.22Andy Gellertah you know professionals to help us run the business and they don’t have to come. re We’re doing well and you know they’re all going to enjoy the from the fruitfuls of the business as as it as it gets bigger but there’s no obligation for them to come in. We like them to come in but we don’t want to make a rule if they have to come in. 07:48.07vigorbrandingYeah, but on that note, and we’ll jump in more about the business, but on the family side, you mentioned earlier that we’re both in YPO. And we both know that a lot of YPO businesses are family owned businesses. And there’s there are challenges, right, with being family owned and led. I mean, you know, what, you know, can you talk a little bit about that? 08:05.93Andy GellertListen, it’s hard, but thank God for YPO. To me, it’s one of the best opportunities of my life. I really enjoyed all the people like yourself and getting involved in the Food Network and my New Jersey Forum. 08:23.49Andy GellertThese guys are my board of directors and my own personal board of directors. 08:26.70vigorbrandingyou 08:28.15Andy GellertThey really helped me grow. where you know where I was i was being stubborn, they told me to relax, where I was not being aggressive enough, they pushed me. And it’s just been a great environment for me to to prosper as a leader because of YPL. 08:43.66vigorbrandingThat’s great. When I know your food and beverage form or that group and boy, you know, I can’t believe you learned anything from them. So ah you guys have a group of, you guys have ah ah a group of, uh, of, uh, cherished individuals, yeah characters. 08:49.65Andy GellertThank you. 08:56.99Andy GellertWe’ve got a great group and we’ve been together for over, you know, some of us back almost 16, 18 years and it’s great. 08:58.20vigorbrandingYes, you do. 09:03.87Andy GellertI love seeing the guys and we don we try not to miss meetings and and we’re supportive of each other. 09:06.99vigorbrandingYeah, it’s cool. Yeah, I’ve had a couple of them one here, so it’s ah it’s been great. They’re they’re they’re like the characters, that’s for sure. So yeah and you mentioned your father got an award at Fancy Food. I was there at Fancy Food this year, and what it’s a great honor. He’s also a member of the New Jersey Business Hall of Fame. 09:24.61Andy GellertYeah, please listen, though we it’s not easy. I think we’re the 11th largest privately held business in New Jersey. We’re very proud of that. and we you know it’s We work hard and he deserves to be honored for what what what he’s accomplished. 09:39.11vigorbrandingYeah. i mean so As I was saying earlier, you know I get to meet folks and we get to see you know different folks at different shows. and i had i i mean I knew you ran a great, important company. I had no idea the size and scale. so you know on Your vision is to be a part of every food experience. and you know Well, I will say that sounds like a really you know audacious goal, right? But with your company, you kind of are. i mean you have you have you have You have a franchise, you have you import your frozen food, you have CPG, you have a private, I mean, it’s it’s incredible. 10:13.44vigorbrandingCan you talk a little bit about the breadth and the different companies within your organization? 10:15.87Andy GellertI mean, it’s exciting and I think we’ve grown over the years through acquisitions. I think the last 18 months we made three acquisitions. We’re probably closing on one the next month and have two on the table that we’re looking at. So growth is, you know, we’re always looking at mergers and acquisitions. And we like to say, listen, private equity, if you’re a family business, you want to stay apart, you know, how enjoy the ride, take some money off the table and join our family instead of private equity where they 10:44.81vigorbrandingYeah. 10:45.10Andy Gellertchange your business up and listen if you want to cash out you can always cash out but if you want to enjoy the ride a little bit longer and take some money off the table we’ve been very successful about people wanting to join a family business and ours is that we’re like a large very large family business so we get to a lot of opportunities to look at business deals. 11:05.69vigorbrandingYeah, and you know, ah your your ah passion for the business and your your love of people, it sort of precedes you. Like I’ve always seen that about you, your energy and i it’s not, it’s not, it’s not artificial. 11:18.40vigorbrandingYou do that. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen you at the booth when I’m standing walking the shows and stuff. And it’s, ah it’s really kind of ah really cool. And I’m sure that’s a compliment to your father and and I’m sure your whole family’s like that. But you do treat everybody like family. 11:29.62vigorbrandingAnd I think that’s ah admirable. 11:30.12Andy Gellertbut You know, network is always um is important to my father. I learned that from him early on. And being part of YPO, I love leveraging my network and not for myself, but helping people. 11:39.05vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. 11:41.20Andy GellertI like investing in early stage CPGs and helping these young people and watching their passion and, you know, leading them to other opportunities. I love putting two people together and let let them prosper. 11:53.58Andy GellertIt’s it’s really a ah pleasure of mine, you know, watching that happen. 11:58.17vigorbrandingYeah, well, and that’s, that leads to success, right? 12:00.84Andy GellertIt’s really pure joy. 12:00.82vigorbrandingYou know, you help people out. 12:01.68Andy Gellertat You’re 100%. 12:01.74vigorbrandingYeah, absolutely. So, and I will say, ah you know, I’ve been informed with you and you were a treasure and valuables all get out. And the amount of people you know, and and the connections you have are second to none. 12:14.02Andy GellertWell, 12:14.00vigorbrandingAnd you know, 12:14.46Andy Gellertwe do have a good friend in LA who like to compare. 12:16.32vigorbrandingokay 12:17.18Andy GellertMy good friend, our good friend Clara, who probably knows one more than I do. 12:20.44vigorbrandingyeah hey 12:22.30Andy Gellertjob 12:23.31vigorbrandingheard I would always keep score when we’d be talking, like who knew who or who knew the other person better or whatever else, but I will say, yeah I’m excited for you to be on here because I know my podcast now will be, I’ll rival the the football games, you know the upcoming football games for for for viewership because because of you. 12:34.55Andy GellertYeah. 12:38.34vigorbrandingSo I just, I appreciate that. So, but but back when companies, though you have frozen, you have CPG. can you Can you talk a little bit about the different types of of ah products? 12:46.45Andy GellertYeah, so we’re in the frozen fruits, frozen vegetables. You know, we just actually, a few years ago, we invested in a company called Cafe Spice. I made him join YPO and they make ethnic meals. um I just, you know, we did ah the Bloomberg of Food, the Food Institute, 13:04.37Andy GellertWe made a minority investment in there. 13:04.43vigorbrandingYep. 13:06.90Andy Gellertwere you know We do a lot of different retail, private label, manufacturing. We’re just trying to leverage all the everything on a plate. look at you know we’re We’re looking at an olive business, a rice business. There’s so many opportunities out there. We just want to add on to our great team here. We’ve got great people. 13:27.64Andy Gellertah We have great sales people, great buyers, and you know, finance. And we just, we can do some more. So we’re looking for more opportunities. 13:33.69vigorbrandingMm hmm. That’s great. Do you need an ad agency? I’m just kidding. 13:37.95Andy GellertWe’ve said, a lot of us not our own brand. We do have some brands that we, that are ours. 13:43.18vigorbrandingYeah. 13:43.84Andy GellertAnd we bought, we bought two brands from, from UNFI, Mountain Vicos that was owned by UNFI and Sonoma Cheese. 13:48.53vigorbrandingMm hmm. 13:52.16Andy GellertSo we do, we do work on our brand. So we, you know, we and um we have a marketing department. 13:54.60vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 13:56.46Andy GellertWe got a, get you more engaged, Micah. 13:58.46vigorbrandingThere you go. 13:58.78Andy GellertI’ll get to that. 13:59.35vigorbrandingHey, I’m always here for that. That’s awesome. 14:01.26Andy GellertFor even your Philly cheesesteak, we’ll have a meeting, you know, that’s all I need. 14:03.59vigorbrandingYou got it. Hey, that’s done. No no no problem there. So when you’re when you’re building and you’re always looking for these new new products or companies, ah yeah what when you want to import them, what what factors are you looking at? 14:15.50vigorbrandinglike I mean, obviously you you go to need a lot of things, there but you’re in so many different places. What what is it that you’re you’re kind of like, what’s on your checklist at the top of the checklist? 14:23.65Andy GellertSo we want to look at something that makes sense. so if you know We love the the old math, one plus one equals four. So we want to find efficiencies. Maybe they’re doing the same thing we are, but they have a big they have a big finance team that we don’t really need going forward. 14:38.14Andy GellertOr maybe they’re in one segment of the business where we’re not in. 14:42.04vigorbrandingUh-huh. 14:42.16Andy GellertSo we try to really identify where we can do the math where one plus one equals four and five. 14:47.91vigorbrandingRight. 14:48.70Andy Gellertyou know we don’t want to doesn’t that A copycat doesn’t really help sometimes, but if they have a you know a big ah big staff on the some redundancy there, then it could make sense. 14:54.08vigorbrandingUh-huh. 14:58.10Andy GellertOtherwise, it could be a whole new field that we can add to our already you know deep bench of of products that we do. So we don’t have a playlist of what we’re looking for. We just look at different opportunities and see if they make sense. 15:11.27Andy Gellerti mean like Just like building a network, we love looking at decks and looking at opportunities or 15:16.32vigorbrandingMm hmm. 15:16.75Andy GellertWhy are companies for sale? Why aren’t they aren’t? And a lot of times, i likeck listen, this is going to go to private equity. We’re not going to need a bit because we know we’ll be blown out of the water. 15:25.59vigorbrandingright Yeah. Yeah. that makes That makes a lot of sense. So, I mean, obviously, and you know, I kind of had this philosophy as well in the business. It’s like, you’re opportunistic. You know, you’re not saying I’m looking for this exact thing. 15:36.91vigorbrandingIt has to be this big, that, you know, that that category doing that thing. It’s sort of like, Oh, here’s an opportunity. Hmm. This fits or no, it doesn’t fit. Or, Hey, this can enhance that. 15:43.96Andy GellertYeah. 15:44.95vigorbrandingAnd if we do this, maybe we can go here. And so I’ve always looked at that. It’s kind of fun to do it that way. I kind of always. 15:50.32Andy GellertIt’s not a good idea. You’re looking under the rug and see what’s there and putting that puzzle together because like I said, a big company that’s competitive in mind, it’s going to go for a lot more for private equity. 15:51.60vigorbrandingYeah. 15:54.65vigorbrandingYeah. 16:03.40Andy GellertI don’t even want to play in there. I don’t have private equity money where I could afford to strike out. 16:05.38vigorbrandingRight. 16:10.74Andy GellertI want to make sure these are successful acquisitions and they fit in them all. 16:15.96vigorbrandingYeah, and you make a really good point because we’ve seen, you know, I’ll say, and um I know you’ve seen for sure, but in my business with CPG and in the restaurant side, private equity will come in and they, I’m not gonna say they don’t care if they fail, but they they know it’s a numbers game. 16:31.27vigorbrandingThey know that all aren’t gonna pan out. So they make these investments and then they they do their, they they they they apply their playbook and then, you know, if it’s like baseball. if they They hit three out of, ah if they hit three out of 10, they feel like they’ve done something and and you probably have financially, but 16:40.88Andy Gellertyeah 16:44.73vigorbrandingThe other seven are just left to the wayside. 16:46.68Andy GellertExactly. And and they’ve, you know, they can afford to do that. We really don’t want to do that. 16:49.73vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. 16:51.36Andy GellertAnd we don’t want to, we don’t want to lose direction. 16:51.34vigorbrandingNo. 16:53.42Andy GellertI mean, listen, and we like, you know, we’re very big and we’re happy wherever you are, but we’re not in a goal to rush to get to 2 billion. 17:00.89vigorbrandingRight. 17:01.14Andy GellertWouldn’t get there smart. And if it means paring down and skew rationalization to be more profitable, all the better. 17:06.88vigorbrandingMm hmm. Do you find yourself doing that a lot? Do you do you have to go in there and and do skew rationalization or? 17:12.64Andy Gellertall the time, all the time, we really, you know, skew rash, customer rationalization, and we’ll bundle a bunch of customers and give them to a bigger customer just to make sure our warehouse is more efficient. 17:13.21vigorbrandingYeah. 17:16.68vigorbrandingYeah. 17:21.11vigorbrandingYeah. 17:23.25Andy GellertIt’s really all about efficiency. I mean, as you get bigger, you could be more efficient. 17:24.87vigorbrandingYeah. 17:27.21Andy GellertAnd, but you have to be diligent and skew rationalization, customer rationalization, people rationalization, you know, rationalization as well. 17:32.84vigorbrandingYep. 17:35.97Andy GellertYou know, it’s important. 17:37.23vigorbrandingYeah. And that’s that’s such ah’ such an interesting point because I think, you know, and I’ll say i’ll say in my own experience, you know, i in our holding company, we have several different marketing companies and I’m always afraid to let customers go. 17:48.21vigorbrandingLike, oh, though no, that we can do it for them. Sometimes it’s not good business, right? And sometimes you have to make those tough decisions and, you know, it’s it’s hard to let employees go, but it’s it’s hard for you to let, or I’ll say for me, to let a piece of business go, a paying customer. 17:52.67Andy GellertYeah. 18:00.83Andy GellertYeah, ah it’s, you know, you don’t like the same thing. But, but you got to look at it like, you know, you still have another 300 other employees out there that you want to do for the better the of the group. 18:07.78vigorbrandingRight. 18:10.14vigorbrandingRight. 18:10.45Andy GellertSo it makes sense to let someone go or let a customer go in order to be more efficient for everyone else. 18:10.42vigorbrandingThat’s right. 18:17.54Andy GellertSo it’s hard. 18:17.83vigorbrandingyeah 18:19.55Andy GellertAnd initially, it’s hard. But over time, you realize It’s a better decision and to be you know to be more efficient and just try. 18:27.95vigorbrandingAbsolutely. So I mean, one of the things that, you you know, we have the two agencies, we have quench, we have, ah which is CPG food and beverage, we have a vart of Vigor, which is ah ah restaurant marketing. and you you You cover them all because you’re in franchise with five guys, you’re in, you know, in the CPG world. um You know, it’s it’s sort of like, it’s hard to keep track of everything. How do you manage it all? I mean, I know you have different folks, but you’re sitting up there, are you just pulling up a different P and&L for each of these business units every two days? or 18:56.16Andy GellertI mean, we’re on ah basically a lot of these Zoom calls and just listening in and we just had one a few minutes ago, you know, we do a lot of nut and dry fruit business and we’re working on getting bigger in the bakery in the in the supermarket. 19:09.09Andy GellertSo how could we be, you know, and and we sat down today and we talked about all of our items and they all fit in the bakery. bill We’re selling very little of the bakery. So it’s an untapped market and it gets everyone excited. 19:21.02Andy GellertAnd we sit down and f throw things at the wall and see what sticks. 19:24.19vigorbrandingThat’s great. 19:24.58Andy GellertAnd we’re kind of fun. like we just said hey You know, we do this item, this will be good for, and I just, I love sitting in these meetings and just, you know, throwing out ideas. 19:32.21vigorbrandingThat’s great. That’s great. Very cool. Well, I know at Quench, you know, the CPG side, we would do to learn, to understand the industry. You know, we started the agency in food and beverage. 19:43.65vigorbrandingIt’s like, you can’t just say you do advertising and marketing food and beverage. You have to have an expertise. We’re going to hire people from the CPG world. But then what we did was we created a food and beverage trench to learn what was going on. 19:54.01vigorbrandingRight. And the first year we’ve done them for 15 years. You know, you’ve probably seen me speak on them at different events. 20:00.02Andy GellertYeah, are you do a great job. I love hearing your updates on the YPO conferences and you really got a pulse of what’s going on in the industry. 20:07.49vigorbrandingYeah. would So we we would do that. just We did it actually just for our own edification, just to learn. And then when we did it, we said, well, let’s let’s just give these away. So we do them every year. We give them away, fast companies written about them and all that. Do you use trends ah for your business to for like that next big thing? 20:21.92vigorbrandingOr is it more of truly just looking at the pieces and moving things around on the board? 20:26.18Andy GellertWe look at trends, we look at pieces, you know, we lot of our a lot of our suppli customers say, we like this item, can you go out and find it for us? And we got people or, you know, and in some cases we do a lot of business, some of our our customers say, here’s an item, you know here’s the supplier, you know, you’re you’re a great importer, we want you to import it for us. So it just, because we’re a trusted supplier, we’re good at logistics, they actually given us business to to handle. 20:53.89Andy GellertAnd it’s it’s exciting. And then we take that business and look at other opportunities as well. 20:59.70vigorbrandingHow is there anything are you doing anything in the beverage side is it mostly all just food? 21:01.22Andy Gellerte 21:04.27Andy GellertNo, I mean, we the beverage side we have, so we, Cipriani, you know, the so we we handle all their CPG items. 21:09.46vigorbrandingMm-hmm Okay Mm-hmm 21:13.80Andy GellertSo they make a the bulini mix, non-alcoholic bulini. So we’re slowly getting it. That’s our beverage and, you know, we’ll see where that takes us. but That’s new space for us. 21:24.96Andy GellertAnd we’re doing it on the retail side. Now we’re looking to try to listen to all the beverage distributors we don’t really touch on. So we’re getting a ah handle on that business as well. 21:31.95vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Yeah. 21:34.96Andy GellertSo that’s the only part of beverage. know I’m an investor in a few CPG, like Ollie Pop and Lemon Perfect, a few others. 21:40.57vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 21:43.06Andy GellertBut but not I think that’s a tough space. But I think we’re we’re getting our feet wet with this Trippiani land. 21:48.39vigorbrandingSee, that’s interesting. 21:48.67Andy GellertWe’re very excited. 21:50.05vigorbrandingYou’re 11 perfect. We just took over their space in Atlanta. They’re headquartered in Atlanta, yeah. 21:53.76Andy GellertOh, 21:54.76vigorbrandingAnd we just took over their space. They went ah they went all virtual, so yeah. 21:58.07Andy Gellertyeah. Yani went to Cornell with me. 22:00.32vigorbrandingYeah. Oh, is that right? 22:00.83Andy GellertYeah, yeah he’s a you should get him on your podcast. 22:03.45vigorbrandingWell, I’ve met him, he’s a great guy. 22:05.26Andy GellertI he’s Mr. Energy. It was his birthday this week. 22:06.69vigorbrandingOh my gosh. 22:07.72Andy GellertSo I just I love that guy. 22:08.28vigorbrandingIs that right? I will reach out to him. Yeah, i we you you can you can appreciate this, Andy, you know me pretty well. 22:11.20Andy GellertHe 22:15.37vigorbrandingSo i’m goingnna I was gonna sublease his his office, right? So you know it’s a real estate deal. I’m gonna sublease it, we’re gonna move from one ah ah one office to this other office. So I talked to him and he was like, he was going 180 miles an hour and it was great and all that. 22:29.28vigorbrandingAnd I was like, I really like this guy. And I’m like, 22:31.92Andy GellertHe’s an infectious personality. 22:32.86vigorbrandingYeah. 22:33.53Andy Gellertyou 22:33.75vigorbrandingAnd I’m like, you know, johnny i said hey if you want, I mean, I’ll, I’ll do the deal here with you, but if you want to stay, like, you know, I mean your energy and what you’re, you’re in the beverage, that’s what we do. 22:44.21vigorbrandingI mean, you can stay, you know, like if you have meetings here and like your, if your people come in, like it’s a big enough space for all of us, I’m not asking for anything on the other side. 22:46.07Andy GellertYeah. 22:51.86vigorbrandingah You can stay. I mean, I just i thought energy, you know, creates more energy. So, and we talked about that, but then he was like, you know, isn’t that crazy? 22:57.60Andy GellertThat’s so funny to know that guy. I met him at Expo West. And he had a small little table. 23:03.20vigorbrandingYep. 23:03.40Andy GellertAnd I’m like, wow, this guy’s this guy has a firecracker. 23:07.14vigorbrandingYeah. 23:07.31Andy GellertAnd I’m like, um’m I’m supporting you. 23:09.42vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 23:09.51Andy GellertAnd it’s a great story. 23:11.92vigorbrandingThat’s very cool. That’s the end goes to show you know everybody that’s amazing to me amazing. That’s funny. 23:17.14Andy GellertTake that, Clara. 23:21.03vigorbrandingI’ll make sure we tell her that. 23:22.87Andy Gellertbut 23:22.95vigorbrandingSo, all right, now I’m gonna bring up something, I guess negative or whatever, but inflation. Inflation is, ah you know, is it affects every industry, especially food. 23:28.56Andy GellertIt’s tough. its you know 23:30.55vigorbrandingYeah. how How much of an impact has that had on you guys? 23:32.99Andy GellertThat’s a very important product. 23:33.03vigorbrandingand 23:34.29Andy GellertSo our product are expensive already. And so it’s tough. We have to find you know so you know find other opportunities. That’s why we invested in this cafe spice that makes meals. 23:44.93Andy GellertSo maybe we make things more efficient for more of our customers and look at other opportunities. Maybe so source something that’s coming from Europe, getting it from South America. And and we’re always looking for ways to skin. 23:59.19Andy GellertWe started importing French fries from Belgium. to the East Coast because it’s it’s more effective and looking at opportunities like that. and Now we’re looking at opportunities in India. You always have to turn over rocks, look for more opportunities. It’s scary. 24:14.30Andy Gellertand it’s it’s you know the It’s all the news, the the price inflation. So we’re always looking for newer opportunities to try to make things better for our customers. 24:25.43vigorbrandingAnd being a global you know accessing globally with conflict and things like that, I mean obviously that’s affecting everything. i mean are you having are you ah is there um Is there ever a chance where one area of the business is sort of shut down or hey we can’t get this from there? 24:40.46Andy GellertYeah, things happen all the time. I mean, you know, when the Ukraine war first started, you know, it was it was a big factor because happened old Europe was tough. 24:42.39vigorbrandingIt’s crazy. 24:51.28Andy GellertAnd then when there was a ah big problem of freight from the from from Asia, supply chain issues from COVID. I mean, we’ve we’ve seen them all, Mike. 25:00.35vigorbrandingcrazy 25:01.71Andy GellertAnd now ah there’s an impending dock strike that’s going to come. So that’s going to affect from Maine all the way to Texas. 25:07.59vigorbrandinghear about that? 25:09.05Andy Gellertand 25:09.51vigorbrandingYeah. 25:09.86Andy GellertThat’s really making us very nervous and our customers nervous. 25:11.55vigorbrandingOh yeah. 25:12.86Andy GellertSo, but we, you know, we do the best we can and we keep fighting every day, you know, get up, get up and play some tennis, you know. 25:13.80vigorbrandingWow. 25:18.34vigorbrandingYes, I was gonna say, you get played tennis and smile and have a positive attitude and that’s the secret sauce. 25:23.15Andy GellertYou just got to, you know. 25:25.04vigorbrandingYou know, and I do love because every time I’m talking, I think, I think you always say, yeah, I played tennis with my dad this morning and you know, family businesses, there’s so many family businesses that end up like not talking to each other and you hear all the the generational strife or the the falling apart. 25:37.72vigorbrandingThe fact that you you still hang with your dad, my dad was my best friend. So that’s just so near and dear to me. It’s incredible. I think that’s so awesome. 25:43.18Andy GellertWell, today is a little, today is a little flat with him. I showed up at his house at 10 to 6, pouring rain, and the the match was canceled. So I had to wake up for nothing, and I’m a little annoyed. 25:50.67vigorbrandingah Oh boy. 25:53.10Andy GellertBut that doesn’t matter at all. 25:55.76vigorbrandingI hope you don’t ever let him win. 25:57.56Andy GellertWell, i I’m his partner. He doesn’t move very well, and people, no one was allowed to drop shot him, you know? 25:59.16vigorbrandingOkay. 26:04.11Andy Gellertget Everyone starts booing, whoever dropped off him. 26:06.88vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 26:07.02Andy GellertBut it was an accident. They’re like, no, you know? He’s got a bunch of rules, you know? 26:11.16vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. It’s his own tennis game, right? It’s his own. 26:13.99Andy Gellerttheel game is his ze tennis game 26:16.17vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. So, if I if i may ask, and I know if there’s something you can’t say, that’s fine, but what’s what’s next for Gellert Global? I mean, what is anything new on the horizon, anything exciting you could talk about? 26:23.54Andy Gellerti We’re looking at more opportunities. you know we will be like We have such a great team. We have such great suppliers, such great employees, such great customers. We just want to keep doing what we’re doing and look for more opportunities. And if it makes sense to to make an acquisition, we’re going to do it. 26:40.44Andy Gellertand uh, it’s, it’s fun. You know, I mean, you know, just look at my cousin and the five guys, we were like 12, five guys. Now this year, by the end of the year, we’ll have a hundred. I mean, it’s just, uh, opportunistic and good people and growth to move forward. 26:50.43vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 26:57.42vigorbrandingYeah. And, and Dan Rowe, as you mentioned, he’s a king of a guy and he, he was actually on the podcast and he, he’s, he’s fantastic. 27:00.10Andy GellertYeah. 27:03.17vigorbrandingSo that’s good company right there. 27:05.70Andy GellertYeah. Yeah. We were at a YPL event and he’s like, and we’ we’re looking My cousin at the time had a bunch of cinnabons and we’re looking for our second concept and we’re at a YPO in DC. 27:11.89vigorbrandingUh-huh. 27:15.43Andy GellertHe’s like, Andy, come try this concept. And I took a bite of the five guy burger. I’m like, this is like a, like the, when you taste a cinnabon for the first time, it’s wow factor. 27:23.93vigorbrandingRight. Yeah. 27:25.78Andy GellertI called my cousin and the next thing we know, we you know we’re down there signing the deal. So it was, it’s been a great journey. 27:30.70vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Yeah. Fantastic. Very cool. All right. So now I asked this question. I have one last question, right? And this probably, well, I don’t know if it’ll be easy for you, but it’s not like you have to say, you can’t say five guys. 27:41.96vigorbrandingSo I have to fill it out there. So, but if you have one final meal, what would you eat and why, and I’m going to say this too. 27:48.70Andy GellertLike, that’s the hardest thing because I love. 27:48.90vigorbrandingAnd and and who with, I want to know who with. 27:52.53Andy GellertThat’s like the hardest question anyone can ever ask me. I love like, it’s like, we I think I told you was before we started out that you was open with my son and my wife and there’s so much food options. 28:00.19vigorbrandingYeah. 28:04.26Andy GellertI had a headache. I couldn’t find what to get. Would I get to the Korean bowl or the palette for the steak sandwich? or or the fancy chicken with truffles, the dumplings. 28:15.10Andy Gellertyou know i’m like I almost get a headache, I can’t even decide. 28:15.19vigorbrandingyeah 28:19.04Andy Gellertso back It’s impossible. I just i love eating, I love food experiences, I love being surprised. I like going to a chef and say, just surprise me. 28:29.38Andy Gellertonly even Just give me what you you you do best and let me try it. 28:29.31vigorbrandingYeah. 28:33.30Andy Gellertand and you know it’s really i can’t i There’s not one meal that I have to have. i 28:39.23vigorbrandingYeah. 28:40.25Andy GellertI love a good sandwich. I love a good burger. I got a good steak. I like Italian, French, Spanish food, everything. 28:45.72vigorbrandingYep. ah You know, it’s funny. i I’m the same way. I’m lucky. I can eat anything. Like I don’t get nothing. I don’t have any allergies. I don’t get sicker. But you know, if I have a go to at a certain thing at a certain place, i will I’ll have a go at my go to. 28:56.26vigorbrandingBut nine out of 10 times when I go to a restaurant, like whatever the chef wants to make, because I figured he’s gonna put his heart and soul on it. 28:56.44Andy Gellerte 29:00.90Andy GellertYeah. 29:02.21vigorbrandingRight. If it’s, if I’m asking him his opinion. 29:02.59Andy Gellertbut i agree yeah if if if If they put it on the menu and then they’re behind it, I would take their recognition and set something I really want. 29:05.89vigorbrandingYeah. 29:09.81Andy Gellertso My father, yeah. 29:10.21vigorbrandingRight. That’s right. That’s right. You nailed it. And I love the fact that you mentioned the U.S. Open and there was somebody there at the U.S. Open that had better seats than you, which was your. Of course, yeah. 29:21.87vigorbrandingAndy, you know, I love being with you. I love talking to you and I appreciate your time. ah Just thank you so much for being on Fork Tales. 29:28.25Andy Gellertah mike First of all, congratulations to you and the organization you built and you’ve always been You’re always smiling, too. i mean actually That’s why we like each other so much. 29:36.16vigorbrandingYeah. 29:36.89Andy GellertWe’re always smiling. Have a good time. And your trends are amazing. And I really enjoyed seeing you and doing this with yourself. 29:43.81vigorbrandingfantastic well thank you so much 29:45.78Andy GellertAll right? 29:46.39vigorbrandingtake care 29:46.78Andy GellertTake care. Bye. 29:47.78vigorbrandingright 30:07.41vigorbrandingFantastic. 30:11.01vigorbrandingWell, thank you so much. Take care. 

Renfro Foods is a privately owned, award-winning food producer of salsas, sauces and relishes, including 30 Mrs. Renfro's products, located in Fort Worth, Texas. Founded in 1940, Renfro Foods is owned and managed by the second and third generations of the Renfro family. Its products are sold in the United States, the Caribbean, Canada and the U.K.As president of Renfro Foods, Doug works closely with his cousins Becky and James to run the company. In particular, Doug focuses on research and development, private label and contract packing, quality assurance, sales and marketing, legal, information technology and a dozen other areas Doug and his cousins strive for family harmony in managing the company and don't make any major decisions without a unanimous vote of support. For Doug, one of the benefits of working with family is the ability to be brutally honest with each other and still maintain a civil and professional relationship.  The team at Renfro Foods pays close attention to flavor trends to identify new salsa flavors.  QUOTES “When I got out of college, if I had come to work here I would have been chopping cabbage. The executive positions were filled by my dad and my uncle.” (Doug)“When I came (to Renfro Foods) I had been in charge of corporate accounting for a billion dollar company. My uncle was still doing pricing on a legal pad with his desk calculator. I said, ‘Here's a spreadsheet. It's going to instantaneously recalculate the cost of thousands of items in a millisecond.' He saw what that did and he said, ‘Can you do that every 90 days from now on?'” (Doug) “If you don't demand as much of your ego to be around, one of the secrets I tell (people) is get somebody without your last name to suggest the same idea you've been suggesting that's been ridiculed and suddenly it's a great idea.” (Doug)“If you take business things personally, that screws (family) relationships up.” (Doug) “I think we lost money on every jar of Raspberry Chipotle we sold last year. Thankfully we didn't sell many.” (Doug)“I want everything on the label to be tasteable but you can't always afford to do that without losing money,” (Doug)  TRANSCRIPT 00:01.23vigorbrandingAll right, hey there, Fork Tales listeners and viewers. I am really happy to be joined today by a good friend of mine, Doug Renfro. Doug is president of Renfro Foods. And I had to say it like 25 times because somehow the word foods after Renfro, I mean, foods in Renfro is easy. 00:13.93Doug Renfrosorry 00:15.18vigorbrandingRenfro Foods, I just struggled. But anyway, ah he is the the the president of Mrs. Renfro’s Salsa. ah Not only are they a family owned company, which always is interesting, but they’re one of the most innovative companies I know. Doug, welcome and thank you very much for joining us and for your time. 00:32.73Doug RenfroThanks, happy to be here. 00:34.60vigorbrandingSo ah you know I’m going to start off by pointing out i’ve I’ve been very fortunate to know you and to ah have your product. And it’s phenomenal. And I’m not just saying that. ah Case in point, I have three jars behind me that were supposed to be props for this presentation. There were actually more than three. But my favorite one was sent to me, which I thank you for, and I ate it. So ah I don’t have as many jars here as I should probably. but Anyway, it’s a phenomenal product and you know, anyway, I appreciate you sending us some samples. So so tell us tell us about you and Renfro Foods and the story and your role in the company. 01:12.84Doug RenfroSure, we’re an 84-year-old family business and all the development has been organic. My granddad distributed grocery items in the 30s and made it through the Depression and thought, you know what would be fun, we’ll quit my job and start a company out of the house. So in 1940, he and my grandmother started out of their house and for 12 years or so they distributed grocery items and flavored vinegars and different things, spices. And around 1952, they moved into the core building that I actually sit in. We have now two city blocks in the street in between, but we were just one little brick building. And he started making syrup, and I like to point out there were no maple trees harmed. 01:50.40Doug Renfroyeah And then they made relishes. And you know, when when I do a trade show, like we’ll be in New York together two weeks from now and it’s a fancy food show and people will walk up and say, are these are grandmother’s recipes. 01:56.90vigorbrandingYep. 02:01.53Doug RenfroAnd I always say, no, but wouldn’t that be cool? ah You know, nobody ate Chipotle in 1940, 50, 60, 70. It’s all very organic dynamic. 02:07.41vigorbrandingRight. 02:09.47Doug RenfroSo when I was a kid, we just made Southern relishes, which had the velocity of a snail. So we had no money. And then we got in, my dad and my uncle got into taco sauce, thank God, in the seventies, which became macanti, which became salsa. and and ah and so And separating that you know for a moment, I went i worked at the nastiest jobs we had you know every summer, sixth grade, through high school. and In college, I lived at home and mixed the spices in the afternoon, went to school in the morning, very glamorous life. So I got out of college early, went to work for Ross Perot’s company at the time EDS. I was here when they sold it to General Motors, you know wearing a coat and tie every day, going to Detroit. My car did not smell of oregano anymore. 02:46.98Doug Renfroah Very cool, good people, smart people, good money, got my MBA, CMA, and some other acronyms. But, you know, corporate life will suck the soul out of your body. So I came back 32 years ago and working with my cousins, my dad, my late uncle, it’s been a lot of fun and to your point, You know, we weren’t getting a lot of sales with mild, medium, and hot. So we started creating things like craft beer salsa, mango habanero, tequila, I think. And not at um a gourmet store, housewarming gift price, but at an everyday in your grocery cart price. 03:18.68vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 03:19.53Doug RenfroAnd we’re fortunate now to 600 brands in the country where Mrs. 03:19.54vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 03:23.12Doug RenfroRimbros is number eight. I caution people not to get excited because we doubled would be number eight. but Big folks are big. 03:31.24vigorbrandingyeah Yeah, well, hey, they are. But you know what, though? Your product is fantastic. And in this in this day and age, we do a quench. We do a ton of CPG work, right? And craft and ah the originality and having a real story It’s super important to people and so products like yours. I mean you yeah I mean, I know you’ve been doing this or for forever you guys but but it’s a really it feels like a really great time for this type of brand and this type of product and Again, it’s all about the quality. 03:52.55Doug Renfroyou 03:59.98vigorbrandingSo I you know, the mango habanero as I said is my favorite. What’s your favorite? 04:05.52Doug RenfroWeirdly, that is also my favorite. 04:06.85vigorbrandingAh Nice 04:06.92Doug Renfroand and i’ve you know all Almost all the items now are recipes I’ve gotten to create over the years with my vast lack of culinary training. um but we you know I would look at things like Mango Habanero specifically. 04:17.07vigorbrandingThank 04:19.83Doug RenfroI was at a white tablecloth restaurant. I saw Mango Habanero on Chutney on Halibut, and I followed it away as something maybe five years later, we could sell every day in the grocery stores. 04:22.21vigorbrandingyou. 04:29.82Doug Renfroand That’s exactly how it turned out. and Even then, there was pushback internally about, you know, it sounds like a bizarre combination. And of course, it’s a better number two seller now for quite some time nationwide, Canada, UK. But ah it’s also, you know, a normal trend now. And that’s what you’re seeing like, you know, fast food places now have Carolina Reaper french fries, which, yeah you know, 20 years ago, nobody knew what it was. 04:50.78vigorbrandingYeah. 04:54.17Doug Renfro10 years ago, it was crazy, exotic, ridiculous. And now it’s almost an everyday thing. 04:58.86vigorbrandingRight, right. So we are you Mrs. Renfro then, if you’re making all these recipes? 05:03.42Doug RenfroIf you take the, my grandmother’s on the side of the label, if you put a wig on me and shave the beard, I think that’s what you get. 05:11.51vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. yeah it’ so Okay, so talking about family here. I mean, you know some family owned companies, you and I know know a lot of people are part of family owned companies. ah Some families require members and future leaders to spend time outside the company. ah Was your time required and did you find that time valuable? And then or or did you and did you always plan? I know you worked there when you were young. Did you always plan on coming back to the company? Talk a little bit about that. 05:36.67Doug RenfroSure. My time was not required. Frankly, when I got out of college, if I had come to work here, I would have been chopping cabbage. 05:43.53vigorbrandingYeah. 05:43.60Doug Renfroah they they The executive positions were filled by my dad and my uncle. s such a tiny We’re small now. We were tiny, tiny back then. So I had to go somewhere else if I wanted to not wear jeans and be covered with cabbage and onions. And I think it was wildly helpful. like When I came back, I had been you know in charge of corporate accounting for a billion dollar company in some areas. and My uncle was still doing pricing on a legal pad with his hand desk calculator. And I said, look, here’s a spreadsheet. And it’s going to instantaneously recalculate the cost of thousands of items in a millisecond. 06:16.59Doug RenfroAnd he saw what that did. And he’s like, can you do that every 90 days from now on? stick yeah Having the discipline and learning and the networking was just fabulous. And I will tell you, we needed a ah filtration system for the fourth generation. So I said, we can’t hire 14 people just because they want to work here. And I said, in that case, for that gen, yes, you have to work somewhere. You have to graduate college. You have to work somewhere else for at least two years and a real job. 06:41.34vigorbrandingyep 06:42.42Doug RenfroAnd then we can talk about management training on your management track. 06:44.65vigorbrandinghere 06:46.70Doug RenfroAnd ah today we have zero fourth-generation working here. But we have we have that off and on. About half of them have done so well they could not remotely afford to take a pay cut and come back here. 06:59.74Doug RenfroYeah. 06:59.93vigorbrandingYeah, that’s great. And my my rule has always been two years and one promotion. 07:01.41Doug Renfroyeah 07:04.61vigorbrandingIf you want to come in the family, in the business, ah you got to, you know, college education, two years and one promotion. So ah and you know what, it’s neither where my girls or seem to be remotely interested. So they’re probably smarter, they but they got a good education. 07:18.22Doug Renfroand And we’ve got our age range on Gen 4 is like 23 to 38. 07:19.88vigorbrandingkind 07:23.63Doug RenfroSo you know some of them, I didn’t come back till I was 29, I think. 07:23.85vigorbrandingMm hmm. 07:27.19Doug RenfroSo there’s you know wait we’ve got lots of time. I’m not ancient yet, but you know I’ve still got some time in me. 07:33.14vigorbrandingYeah, well, yeah, sure. Of course you do. and Now you said, in one of your quotes, it was something like, ah ah if people say their family business journey, if if people have said ah their family business journey has been a smooth road, they’re a smooth liar. 07:46.85Doug Renfroso 07:46.95vigorbrandingah but Talk a little bit about the struggles and the family and all that kind of stuff. 07:47.79Doug Renfrowell 07:51.08vigorbrandingJust, you know, like some of the things you have to overcome, because it’s always amazing to me. ah ah Just, you know, what what all is involved there. 07:59.16Doug RenfroYeah, it’s it’s funny. i’ve I’ve spoken to the TCU family business class like eight years in a row now. And I usually start out with how much time do I have? um But is anyone recording this? I’m like you. But you know, one of the things you deal with is like my late uncle and my dad, they, to me, they see me in diapers when I started talking because that’s how they met me. 08:19.23vigorbrandingMm hmm. 08:19.42Doug RenfroAnd it’s hard, you know, they’ve seen you be a silly kid and get in trouble. And now I’m telling them they need to change the branding. You’re like, you know, what’s this little kid saying, shut up and get back over there. And frankly, if you don’t have, you know, if you don’t demand this much of your ego to be around, one of the secrets I tell them is get somebody without your last name to suggest the same idea you’ve been suggesting that’s been ridiculed. And suddenly, it’s a great idea. 08:42.33vigorbrandingHmm. 08:43.81Doug RenfroAnd actually, it becomes their idea. And as long as you can live with that, you know, if it’s all for the greater good, you know, foul I don’t have to get credit for everything, and I don’t have to get immediate results. It’s slow, steady progress to me. Because you and I have seen a lot of people that you know skyrocket up and then skyrocket back down. 08:59.28vigorbrandingYep, that’s right. 09:00.96Doug RenfroIt’s about gradual process. We have we have no investors. you know We just use bank debt when we need it. um It’s all still family controlled. And because of that, it’s more slow, steady path. But yeah, well I think you know I’ve told you that my dad and my late uncle had a rule. They were 50-50. They had a a little sister who didn’t work here, but she could be a swing vote, but they had an agreement. They never ever did anything important if it wasn’t a unanimous vote. They didn’t go get a tiebreaker. So now my cousins and I who run it, we have 84% of the votes of the company, and we could outvote each other on certain things. 09:30.24vigorbrandingThat’s great. 09:38.26Doug RenfroAnd we’ve done the same thing. if it’s I’m talking about a capital expenditure branding campaign, a new flavor. big things. We have to be unanimous or we don’t do it. I just assume I’m missing something if I can’t convince them both and vice versa. And now that’s key. I’ve seen friends who make a lot more money and have a lot more wealth, who have a sibling they can’t talk to, they’ve never spoken to in 20 years, and it breaks their parents’ heart. And we’ve chosen not to do that. 09:59.72vigorbrandingyeah Yep. 10:02.50Doug RenfroWe’ve we’ve gone with family harmony, so we sub-optimize, but it’s a family business. 10:02.81vigorbrandingYeah. 10:05.90Doug RenfroWe can do that. 10:06.99vigorbrandingYep. And you know, that’s, ah that’s really important. I mean, I know you obviously get it because you said all those words. and and But, but, you know, when you have the family involved, I mean, you know, the family, it’s important. 10:17.69Doug RenfroOkay. 10:18.01vigorbrandingthere’s I don’t know that there’s anything more important than family. And you’re, you know, the the company is what supports the family. And so if they can’t all be harm, if there can’t be harmony, At the end of the day, we have. and so I admire you for that, the way you’re handling it, because ah as you’re you’re right. We’ve seen a lot of ah more, unfortunately, probably more examples than not where you know somebody gets ah iced out, or they’re not talking, or you know the families are completely ah dysfunctional now, you know but maybe maybe the business survives, or maybe it doesn’t. and That’s just tragic. so 10:49.71vigorbrandingAnd so speaking of, your Uncle Bill, you said, I think one of your other quotes in an interview said something like, you can be brutally honest with each other about ideas. ah he could He could call you an idiot and it’s no big deal. So, I mean, that’s that’s that’s a benefit, right? That level of honesty. 11:03.05Doug RenfroYeah, that’s key is that we were i famously tell that story that like I would say to him or he to me that, you know, I think what you just said was the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard from a business perspective, where do you want to go to lunch? Because we didn’t, you know, there was no personal aspect to it. And and that’s key. If you take business things personally, that screws the relationships all up. 11:22.85vigorbrandingso you Now, back to the salsa. You have 20 different flavors. and how do you I know you’re the one that’s ah um coming up with a lot of the different formulas. How are you finding that inspiration? I mean, just out there in the world, i mean you said that the the the the mango habanero came from ah a meal you had somewhere. is that Is that pretty much what you’re looking at, just trends and things like that? 11:42.45Doug RenfroYeah, I tell people I’m cursed to have to eat at the nicest restaurants in the nation and, you know, read cool food magazines and see what’s going on. But yeah, it is that that simple, which is not actually simple, is always looking around. You want to see what’s on the edge. You know, I we developed a bacon queso for a customer. And as you know, a lot of what we do is creating things for other people. Our names know we’re on it. There’s no indication we made it. ah But people looked at us for ideation. I’ve had grocery chains come to me and they’re like, what should we do for a private label salsa? 12:12.69Doug RenfroIt’s going to be our first time. And I don’t mean, we’ll never make the mild, medium, and hot for the big folks, but if they want a pineapple chipotle or something, they were one of the few players that they will come to. 12:19.59vigorbrandingRight. 12:22.91Doug RenfroAnd i’ll I’ll give them my ideas. Half the time they run with that, say make some recipes for us. Half the time they do the total opposite of what I suggested. As long as they pay us, I’m fine. 12:31.59vigorbrandingYeah, makes sense. 12:31.88Doug Renfroum But yeah, you’re looking at, and and as you know with trends, most of them won’t become a mango habanero or a ghost pepper, which are in a habanero, which are top sellers. You know, I thought pomegranate chipotle was a great idea. Not many other people did. ah So, you know, you end up DC and you ski rationalization um is painful, but we do go through that. 12:49.81vigorbrandingWell, and you have to balance that. like you You can be out there too far out on the trends. I mean, a quench, we’ we’re big on trends. We do trends presentations every year, and I know you’ve seen them and been a part of them. And you know so you you see these things that are out there. You want to kind of be first to market, but that can be dangerous because you know maybe maybe the pomegranate is going to be something that will be fantastic maybe in another six months. If you’re too far out in front, you can you can you know get delisted, as you said. or But if you if you would just sit back and be hot and medium and you know mild, I mean, that’s no good either. 13:22.12vigorbrandingSo I really i admire what you’ve done. And I think that the the branding you’ve done and the flavoring you’ve done is fantastic. And just just for all honesty, I don’t do the branding. I mean, your your your design package stuff is impeccable. And I’ve always been a big fan of it. So ah congratulations on that. 13:39.90Doug RenfroThank you. 13:42.28vigorbrandingSo, I mean, now, how many do you try and make? I mean, like, ah is there in your mind, you say, hey, we should come up with two new SKUs a year? Is it sort of like when I find something I like, we’ll make it? ah how does How does that work? 13:55.53Doug RenfroBut it’s two different answers based on when it was. When I came back, we we weren’t really in grocery stores per se. 13:58.43vigorbrandingOkay. 14:02.35Doug RenfroWe were in fruit stands at the time and different things. So we were fighting for our lives. My cousins and I needed more money. Our dads wanted more money. We needed it. You were raising families. 14:12.71vigorbrandingYeah. 14:13.20Doug Renfroand so we were literally being told no constantly go away because we had hot medium mild and green taco sauce. That’s all we had. And so with no permission, one day when nobody was looking, I added black beans to the medium. Then I added the habanero, which was crazy exotic sexy at the time, you know, super hot. And we would, my sales director and I, he’s been with us 32 years and it’s non-family. We would go to retailers around the country and in Canada and say, hey, I know you have a million sauces before you throw me out. We have a black bean and a habanero at an everyday price, not a gourmet price. It gives you variety. And they started saying, yeah, that’s they’re delicious. That makes sense. We love your company and your marketing and your products. And this will give us variety. And they started putting it in and we were just you know making it up praying. And so after that, we did a 15:01.69Doug Renfrobut we A couple of years later, we did Chipotle, corn. we i We were early on Chipotle. Nobody could say it, including our own staff. I walked through the office. I’m here. Chipotle. Chipotle. 15:10.26vigorbrandingbut 15:10.84Doug RenfroI’m like, oh my god, we can’t pronounce our own product. ah Then when you when Chipotle, the chain became big, they taught everybody. And then Jack in the Box made a hilarious ad about how to power pronounce it. And so, yeah, I would look at things, you know, I saw a ghost pepper in a chocolate bar. I’d been watching it for a couple of years. When I saw it in a chocolate bar, and I told the family, I think we can put it in salsa. My uncle thought we were gonna get sued, so we put a crossbones skull on it, ex-scary hot. 15:33.05vigorbrandingHmm. 15:34.74Doug Renfroand The Today Show fell in love with it, gave us a solid minute on the Today Show back when we all watched TV and there were no streaming channels. ah Huge success. But at this point, now we’re mature. 15:45.35vigorbrandingYeah. 15:47.18Doug Renfroand frankly we’re busier than ever on rnd but it’s all for food service co-pack and private label clients with renfro what you’ll see is the big chains will want you to give them two items with a significant slotting and kick out your two slowest ones and i’m like no thank you but if you give us two if you’ll give us two more spots incrementally, we’ll take it, and that happens. But for now, when the when COVID hit, the supply chain fund and the inflation that followed that, frankly, we haven’t come up with a new item since Blackberry Serrano was our last one. 16:20.17vigorbrandingNice. 16:20.37Doug RenfroAnd we’ve kind of hunkered down. So you know maybe Pavone pomegranate is next. 16:25.34vigorbrandingThere you go. I love it. 16:26.20Doug RenfroI’m still thinking. 16:29.01vigorbrandingSo what what is the what is the mix between ah branded sales, I’ll say, and and food service ah percentages? 16:36.24Doug Renfroi And there’s there’s branded food service and then Copac Private Label. So it’s three, it’s a triad, which is really nice. It it really, you know, diversifies things for us. And we’re sort of 40, 45% Renfro and then you split the rest of it between food service and and other brands. Like I can take the national retailer usually and show you, you know, two to five other brands that we make and and not all salsas. 16:53.69vigorbrandingThat’s great. 16:59.57vigorbrandingMm 17:00.60Doug RenfroYou know, we we’re acidified foods, condiments, so we can do cheese in a jar, which God didn’t mean to happen. um barbecue sauce, relish, you know, sauces. 17:12.54vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. That’s very cool. um So I mean, the flavor thing, again, is brilliant. And I love all the different combinations and they are delicious. You know, through my career, you know, again, doing CPG for for basically, almost 30 years, I hate to say the agencies around for 33 years, but doing the CPG thing for good, I think 25 years. ah food, um the flavor thing was almost, it almost seems a shortcut because there’s a lot of expense involved in in flavors. But like I remember, okay, that as dumb as this sounds, potato chips. It’s like, you know, ah plain potato chips still sell great, but put flavors in there and we helped many ah snack food brands, currently hers, with a lot of their products and and just adding new flavors all the time. 17:43.66Doug RenfroWow. 17:52.57vigorbrandingJust the consumer loves it. It gets them excited. We even did it with tuna, which, I mean, adding flavor to tuna, ah you know, and it just, we blew sales out of the water. Now, again, the companies were the the R and&D behind it, but we were like all in for the, the you know, the Sriracha flavored and all the different types of ah tuna flavors. And, you know, for Starkus, and it blew them out and the sales went through the roof. 18:14.72Doug RenfroSo. 18:17.12vigorbrandingSo, I mean, the, I know R and&D and I know category extensions can be expensive, but I also think there’s a a sort of a hidden ah marketing excitement. ah It just you know it brings brings energy to the category. And again, when you see your products against across the shelf or those log those those labels across, it’s ah it’s a really impressive uh a lineup i mean how how you mean i do i obviously probably feel the same where you wouldn’t have so many but i mean yeah i’m sure you’re torn like do we want another skew do we not want another skew can you talk a little just a little bit about that 18:51.01Doug RenfroYeah, it’s challenging because everything in life, usually the 80-20 rule works and ours, you know, we have 28 current Renfro SKUs, the top four do have the sales, you know, the top seven or 70% of the sales. 19:01.36vigorbrandinghuh 19:03.24Doug RenfroSo you’re like, well, why don’t we just cut the rest of them because people want variety and the people who want those second tier items. It’s funny on our online platforms, those will be our best sellers because they’re so hard to get and the people don’t care what it costs. They just want it so badly. 19:16.56vigorbrandingRight. 19:17.79Doug Renfroand But and you know no matter what you do, I don’t care if you have another 10 fantastic skews, the top four or five are going to be half your sales. 19:24.24vigorbrandingThat’s right. 19:26.20Doug RenfroIf you go to a farmer’s market and they got like 30 kinds of jelly, you’ll inevitably find that two or three do most of the sales. But they they get attention. People come over there because they want to taste you know coconut marmalade, but they end up buying peach. you 19:40.92vigorbrandingRight, right, right, right. Well, I think I heard you say that the mango habanero is number two. What’s what’s number one? 19:47.21Doug Renfroof habanero, though the one I was told internally would never sell much because it was so hot, but it’d be cute to have. 19:53.27vigorbrandingWow. 19:53.65Doug Renfrothink It’s been number one for over 15 years and I can’t eat it. i Most of the things that are best sellers that I’ve created and when I create for Renfro, my cousins get votes in our sales director. If it’s non Renfro, the customer rules or I’ll make up something. but for rent bro i I first cook with Microsoft Excel because it we line price. It doesn’t matter how good it is if we lose money on it because I can’t charge more on just one item. So first I pre-cook it in Excel and if it’s going to work financially, then I i do what I think is good. and Then I bring in my cousins and a lot of like on the craft beer, we were about ready to take it to New York. 20:31.12Doug Renfrofor the big show and I was like, it’s just kind of bland. And then my cousin Becky was like, yeah, it’s, they need something. 20:36.20vigorbrandingMm hmm, mm hmm. 20:36.98Doug RenfroSo I threw in Guajillo, Ancho and Chipotle in small amounts. It’s kind of a mid range. And we’re like, she’s like, yeah, that’s better. And then James might think it needs to be chunkier who runs production and our sales director might have an opinion. And so it, you know, it is a village situation, but you’re right. Right now we’re like, oh, it gives me a headache to think about another skew. Cause how much could it sell? Your home runs are about one a decade. 21:00.63vigorbrandingyeah Yeah. So you you said something very interesting there. And again, being in a CPG world, I have experience with that whole line pricing thing. So if I can ask, like I’ll say it this way. We had a client we worked with for, oh boy, we built the brand. It was probably a good 18 years and it was Turkey Hill Ice Cream. And Turkey Hill, like most brands, had a line price. But there was an awful lot of a difference in cost to make vanilla ice cream versus, let’s say, ah like a rainforest crunch or anything with nuts and stuff. Because the expense of those nuts, and and people don’t realize that. 21:32.10Doug RenfroRight. 21:33.41vigorbrandingThey just think it’s, oh, it’s two for $5. Or, oh, the price went up. Or it’s 89 cents more. But they they don’t realize. that one flavor to another flavor could be a huge difference and in in the cost to make it. um do you run I mean, I have to imagine you run into that to a degree. And ah you know is that something you have to deal with? 21:52.47Doug Renfroand and Absolutely. I think we lost money on every jar of raspberry chipotle we sold last year. Fortunately, we didn’t sell many. but yeah Raspberry is an item that the price goes wildly up and down, fluctuates like crazy. and Most things don’t. they They go up slowly or they sit still. but Our craft beer salsa, we don’t make as much money on it, but it’s fabulous and tastes great. But yeah would I be thrilled if everybody just bought mild all day long? Absolutely. I could get a new car. 22:23.33vigorbrandingYeah, there you go. 22:23.47Doug Renfroi myself And that is that is exactly the challenging aspect. Blackberry Serrano, you know making that worthy of the name, I get really annoyed when I go to a restaurant. They got a tomatillo pecan, you know smoked watermelon sauce, and all I can taste is salt. I want i want everything on the label to be tastable, but you can’t afford always to do that as much as you’d like without losing money. 22:39.89vigorbrandingRight. Right. Right. Yeah. That’s ah well yeah that’s ah that’s the the the the difficult part of, I’ll say, what you guys do. And that’s that’s putting product ah quality product in ah in a container. Whatever your your product is. It could be ice cream, salsa. It could be potato chips. It can be candy. it’s just the the The flavoring, you can do it. But there’s always these these cost constraints, that line pricing thing. and And then there’s the evil empires of the retailers, right? so 23:12.03Doug RenfroIt’s a delicate dance. 23:12.91vigorbrandingbut its It is a delicate dance and I don’t i don’t envy you. so But hey, you sent us a bunch of salsa, so like we’ve had a lot of parties at Proven Group, and ah but we’re gonna have our first salsa party coming up, so we’re pretty excited about that. um But as we know, um you you have recipes throughout the thing, so ah your salsas aren’t just for tortilla chips. 23:29.66Doug Renfrothe 23:33.46vigorbrandingYou have tons of recipes on your website that you salsa. 23:33.90Doug Renfroright 23:37.31vigorbrandingum So we’ll have some fun. 23:37.41Doug Renfroye 23:38.43vigorbrandingI’m gonna i’m gonna name a few recipes from your site that use salsa. And you can tell me if you’ve tried it and what you thought of it. Ready to roll? 23:46.76Doug RenfroReady. 23:47.46vigorbrandingAll right, we have the Molten Chili Chocolate Brownie with raspberry chipotle salsa. 23:54.46Doug RenfroThat came out of a wine pairing dinner. I thought it was and a winery owner and we’re a charity event and I thought she was inebriated and they She would sober up later. No, she flew us out there and had her chef and they had like 80 people bought tickets and they paired a Renfro item with every course. And for dessert, they they used the raspberry chipotle. I think they blended it with maybe raspberries and sugar also. But ah on chocolate, that did pair nicely. 24:19.34vigorbrandingYeah, ah that’s interesting. 24:19.62Doug Renfroyeah 24:21.07vigorbrandingand But that was your most expensive vitamin, so maybe you don’t want to sell too many of those brownies, right? 24:24.76Doug Renfroah please Yeah, please don’t buy too much of it. 24:29.31vigorbrandingAlright, meatloaf with craft beer salsa. 24:33.21Doug RenfroI have not had that. I have had it with the roasted salsa, which has a really strong mesquite aspect to it. 24:39.53vigorbrandingNice. ah Grilled, and this is also a delicious ah one of your products, but grilled peach salsa chicken with a pe with ah with a peach salsa. 24:48.11Doug Renfroyeah Back in the day when we still had to demo at the booth, that was our go-to. 24:51.39vigorbrandingUh-huh. 24:52.21Doug RenfroAnd and it’s funny, people think they’re cooking. If you say, put a jar of peach salsa in a baggie, throw in the chicken breast, put it in the fridge for an hour or two, then grill it. They think they’re like a gourmet chef. um And it tastes delicious. 25:03.30vigorbrandingYep. 25:04.91Doug RenfroYou can reserve some. ah It’ll caramelize on the grill, and then you can reserve like a third of it and pour it over just as you serve it. 25:07.79vigorbrandingMm 25:10.15Doug RenfroAnd that is delicious and crazy simple. 25:10.85vigorbranding-hmm. Yeah, that’s great. I mean, a very good friend of mine owns a company called Gazebo salad dressing, and he sells way more salad dressing as a marinade than he does as a salad dressing. And it’s really, truly a salad dressing, but people find figured out that you know marinating in this in these products, and I’m sure your products are are phenomenal for that. 25:32.84Doug RenfroAnd I love any recipe that’s take a whole jar and use it. 25:35.06vigorbrandingRight. That’s right. That’s right. 25:36.98Doug RenfroNo tablespoon recipes. 25:38.73vigorbrandingYeah. 25:38.89Doug Renfroyeah 25:39.37vigorbrandingYeah. He he realized that early on. It’s like, well, you know, the more, especially guys, right? Guys are grilling. So what do they do? They dump the whole jar to your point, you know, we’re not, we’re not going to spare anything. 25:45.50Doug RenfroAbsolutely. sister yeah 25:47.93vigorbrandingSo that’s, that’s the perfect consumer right there. 25:48.64Doug Renfroyeah 25:50.55vigorbrandingAll right. spag Spicy spaghetti sauce with medium salsa. 25:54.72Doug RenfroI don’t recall having that. I think we i think my cousin Becky pre-cooked everything before we would let it be on a label back and when we started doing this. I i probably sampled it, but she’s our ah she she cooks as my wife does too. ah gee They’re both excellent cooks and will actually whip these things up. I’m gluten-free too, but my wife can find gluten-free pasta to put that on. 26:16.82vigorbrandingThere you go. 26:16.93Doug RenfroI’ll tell her Michael said we had to taste it. 26:18.85vigorbrandingThere you go. That’s it. That’s it. So the last one is Mexican fudge with green jalapeno salsa. This one isn’t a chocolate fudge, it’s more of a cheese. 26:27.63Doug Renfroyeah When I came back 32 years ago, that was the only recipe we had, and it’s still the most popular. My aunt came up with that, interestingly. and it’s It’s cheddar cheese, eggs, and green salsa, and you just add more green salsa if you want it spicier, and you you put it in a pan, you throw it in the oven for 40 minutes, you go get ready for the party, whatever, take it out, slice it up, put it on triskets or whatever, and people love it. It’s gone, especially when it’s warm, and you serve it that way. ah We call it cowboy cobbler. I mean, there’s a million things, but it’s just three ingredients. like Even I can’t screw it up. 27:01.20vigorbrandingNow you said that that when you do R and&D, it’s your cousins get involved, but you also said like the the really hot, you can’t eat. Like that’s for, is that your palette? Is it just, you don’t really like super spicy or how does that work? 27:10.80Doug RenfroIt hurts. 27:14.06Doug RenfroMy assistant, it’s ah my R and&D guru that I’ve got working with me now the last few years. He’ll make me occasionally do a cutting of like ghost pepper case. So in the morning, I’m like, really? That’s my breakfast. And with ghost pepper, habanero, Carolina Reaper, I can taste two or three, four samples. And I’m done for a few hours because then I’m torched and I can’t distinguish anything different. 27:33.60vigorbrandingRight. 27:37.32Doug RenfroFortunately, I don’t have to very often when we’re coming up with something. um You know, I created a ah special ah triple hot reaper for a business group you and I are in and I tasted that till I couldn’t see my feet and then we said, okay, it must be fine. 27:53.90vigorbrandingWell, that’s fantastic. So tell me, before we wrap up, like what’s next for Renfro Foods? i mean Can you share any details about what you’re cooking up for the future? Anything you’re excited about? Anything that’s going on in the company or in the family? 28:07.24Doug RenfroYeah, that’s always a frustrating thing about doing so much private label and co-pack and food services. I can’t talk about most of it, but it’s really cool. We’re we’re doing things for people like ah the dairy-free queso, you know, that’s nut-based, the things that my 87-year-old father is like, what? 28:22.27vigorbrandingme 28:26.19Doug RenfroThat’s what my grandparents wouldn’t have known. ah We do ethnic sauces. We were always reinvesting in the plant. my My dad, my late uncle, my grandparents taught us don’t ever milk the company. So we doubled our shipping warehouse two years ago. We added a brand new two story production employee break room with QA and production offices above it. We automated some more things on the food service line. We’re always reinvesting. We’re always looking, you know, for the future we’re doing licensing agreements with other brands where we handle the marketing for them and you’ll see if yeah you’re gonna be in the new york show i think you’ll see another brand in our booth that i can talk about then. 28:55.96vigorbrandingAwesome. 28:59.33vigorbrandingYep. 29:04.36vigorbrandingSuper. That’s awesome. I mean, congratulations on all the success. and I mean, you’re, you’re a great president. You’re always very self-deprecating. Absolutely hilarious. Lots of fun. And I think that just, it sort of just, you represent the brand in my mind and in a lot, in all the positive ways, you know, and I would love to see you put a wig on and and try and emulate your camera. That would be, ah that would be fantastic. 29:23.97Doug Renfromaybe yeah yeah 29:25.99vigorbrandingThat’s how you should work the booth. You should be Mrs. Renfro. So, 29:28.46Doug Renfrolike 29:29.43vigorbrandingAll right, so I have one last question I asked this from every guest and it can’t be your product if you had one final meal What would you eat? Maybe where and why? 29:40.36Doug RenfroWell, I forgot the can’t do your problems. You gotta start with chips and salsa. And frankly, I do eat lots of people’s salsa. It’s it’s experimentation, but also, you know, I always ask people, you think the donut shop guy eats a donut every day? You know, you want to change it up. ah for lunch ah For the entree, I think I’d have chicken tikka masala. My wife and I have become big fans of of Indian food and eating it around the world. I would say one of the places in London, I think it’s Rick Road that has all their Indian restaurants. 30:05.10vigorbrandingNice. 30:06.18Doug RenfroAnd then Grand Marnier Soufflé for dessert. It’s one of those things that’s too hard to make at home, but most so hard that it’s hard to find it. There’s a French restaurant locally. I can get it like occasionally and that, now those don’t go together, but you said final meal, so it doesn’t matter. 30:20.00vigorbrandingThat’s it. Final meal. Yeah, that’s what you got to do. That’s fantastic. 30:23.12Doug Renfroah 30:23.48vigorbrandingWell, Doug, thank you very much. 30:24.20Doug Renfroyeah 30:25.29vigorbrandingI look forward to, I know you’re doing ah an event in in in Fort Worth ah for all of us. um That’ll be fantastic. And I will see you at Fancy Food. 30:34.95Doug RenfroSee you there. Thanks again for letting me play. 30:36.83vigorbrandingAll right, pal. Appreciate it.00:01.23vigorbrandingAll right, hey there, Fork Tales listeners and viewers. I am really happy to be joined today by a good friend of mine, Doug Renfro. Doug is president of Renfro Foods. And I had to say it like 25 times because somehow the word foods after Renfro, I mean, foods in Renfro is easy. 00:13.93Doug Renfrosorry 00:15.18vigorbrandingRenfro Foods, I just struggled. But anyway, ah he is the the the president of Mrs. Renfro’s Salsa. ah Not only are they a family owned company, which always is interesting, but they’re one of the most innovative companies I know. Doug, welcome and thank you very much for joining us and for your time. 00:32.73Doug RenfroThanks, happy to be here. 00:34.60vigorbrandingSo ah you know I’m going to start off by pointing out i’ve I’ve been very fortunate to know you and to ah have your product. And it’s phenomenal. And I’m not just saying that. ah Case in point, I have three jars behind me that were supposed to be props for this presentation. There were actually more than three. But my favorite one was sent to me, which I thank you for, and I ate it. So ah I don’t have as many jars here as I should probably. but Anyway, it’s a phenomenal product and you know, anyway, I appreciate you sending us some samples. So so tell us tell us about you and Renfro Foods and the story and your role in the company. 01:12.84Doug RenfroSure, we’re an 84-year-old family business and all the development has been organic. My granddad distributed grocery items in the 30s and made it through the Depression and thought, you know what would be fun, we’ll quit my job and start a company out of the house. So in 1940, he and my grandmother started out of their house and for 12 years or so they distributed grocery items and flavored vinegars and different things, spices. And around 1952, they moved into the core building that I actually sit in. We have now two city blocks in the street in between, but we were just one little brick building. And he started making syrup, and I like to point out there were no maple trees harmed. 01:50.40Doug Renfroyeah And then they made relishes. And you know, when when I do a trade show, like we’ll be in New York together two weeks from now and it’s a fancy food show and people will walk up and say, are these are grandmother’s recipes. 01:56.90vigorbrandingYep. 02:01.53Doug RenfroAnd I always say, no, but wouldn’t that be cool? ah You know, nobody ate Chipotle in 1940, 50, 60, 70. It’s all very organic dynamic. 02:07.41vigorbrandingRight. 02:09.47Doug RenfroSo when I was a kid, we just made Southern relishes, which had the velocity of a snail. So we had no money. And then we got in, my dad and my uncle got into taco sauce, thank God, in the seventies, which became macanti, which became salsa. and and ah and so And separating that you know for a moment, I went i worked at the nastiest jobs we had you know every summer, sixth grade, through high school. and In college, I lived at home and mixed the spices in the afternoon, went to school in the morning, very glamorous life. So I got out of college early, went to work for Ross Perot’s company at the time EDS. I was here when they sold it to General Motors, you know wearing a coat and tie every day, going to Detroit. My car did not smell of oregano anymore. 02:46.98Doug Renfroah Very cool, good people, smart people, good money, got my MBA, CMA, and some other acronyms. But, you know, corporate life will suck the soul out of your body. So I came back 32 years ago and working with my cousins, my dad, my late uncle, it’s been a lot of fun and to your point, You know, we weren’t getting a lot of sales with mild, medium, and hot. So we started creating things like craft beer salsa, mango habanero, tequila, I think. And not at um a gourmet store, housewarming gift price, but at an everyday in your grocery cart price. 03:18.68vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 03:19.53Doug RenfroAnd we’re fortunate now to 600 brands in the country where Mrs. 03:19.54vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 03:23.12Doug RenfroRimbros is number eight. I caution people not to get excited because we doubled would be number eight. but Big folks are big. 03:31.24vigorbrandingyeah Yeah, well, hey, they are. But you know what, though? Your product is fantastic. And in this in this day and age, we do a quench. We do a ton of CPG work, right? And craft and ah the originality and having a real story It’s super important to people and so products like yours. I mean you yeah I mean, I know you’ve been doing this or for forever you guys but but it’s a really it feels like a really great time for this type of brand and this type of product and Again, it’s all about the quality. 03:52.55Doug Renfroyou 03:59.98vigorbrandingSo I you know, the mango habanero as I said is my favorite. What’s your favorite? 04:05.52Doug RenfroWeirdly, that is also my favorite. 04:06.85vigorbrandingAh Nice 04:06.92Doug Renfroand and i’ve you know all Almost all the items now are recipes I’ve gotten to create over the years with my vast lack of culinary training. um but we you know I would look at things like Mango Habanero specifically. 04:17.07vigorbrandingThank 04:19.83Doug RenfroI was at a white tablecloth restaurant. I saw Mango Habanero on Chutney on Halibut, and I followed it away as something maybe five years later, we could sell every day in the grocery stores. 04:22.21vigorbrandingyou. 04:29.82Doug Renfroand That’s exactly how it turned out. and Even then, there was pushback internally about, you know, it sounds like a bizarre combination. And of course, it’s a better number two seller now for quite some time nationwide, Canada, UK. But ah it’s also, you know, a normal trend now. And that’s what you’re seeing like, you know, fast food places now have Carolina Reaper french fries, which, yeah you know, 20 years ago, nobody knew what it was. 04:50.78vigorbrandingYeah. 04:54.17Doug Renfro10 years ago, it was crazy, exotic, ridiculous. And now it’s almost an everyday thing. 04:58.86vigorbrandingRight, right. So we are you Mrs. Renfro then, if you’re making all these recipes? 05:03.42Doug RenfroIf you take the, my grandmother’s on the side of the label, if you put a wig on me and shave the beard, I think that’s what you get. 05:11.51vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. yeah it’ so Okay, so talking about family here. I mean, you know some family owned companies, you and I know know a lot of people are part of family owned companies. ah Some families require members and future leaders to spend time outside the company. ah Was your time required and did you find that time valuable? And then or or did you and did you always plan? I know you worked there when you were young. Did you always plan on coming back to the company? Talk a little bit about that. 05:36.67Doug RenfroSure. My time was not required. Frankly, when I got out of college, if I had come to work here, I would have been chopping cabbage. 05:43.53vigorbrandingYeah. 05:43.60Doug Renfroah they they The executive positions were filled by my dad and my uncle. s such a tiny We’re small now. We were tiny, tiny back then. So I had to go somewhere else if I wanted to not wear jeans and be covered with cabbage and onions. And I think it was wildly helpful. like When I came back, I had been you know in charge of corporate accounting for a billion dollar company in some areas. and My uncle was still doing pricing on a legal pad with his hand desk calculator. And I said, look, here’s a spreadsheet. And it’s going to instantaneously recalculate the cost of thousands of items in a millisecond. 06:16.59Doug RenfroAnd he saw what that did. And he’s like, can you do that every 90 days from now on? stick yeah Having the discipline and learning and the networking was just fabulous. And I will tell you, we needed a ah filtration system for the fourth generation. So I said, we can’t hire 14 people just because they want to work here. And I said, in that case, for that gen, yes, you have to work somewhere. You have to graduate college. You have to work somewhere else for at least two years and a real job. 06:41.34vigorbrandingyep 06:42.42Doug RenfroAnd then we can talk about management training on your management track. 06:44.65vigorbrandinghere 06:46.70Doug RenfroAnd ah today we have zero fourth-generation working here. But we have we have that off and on. About half of them have done so well they could not remotely afford to take a pay cut and come back here. 06:59.74Doug RenfroYeah. 06:59.93vigorbrandingYeah, that’s great. And my my rule has always been two years and one promotion. 07:01.41Doug Renfroyeah 07:04.61vigorbrandingIf you want to come in the family, in the business, ah you got to, you know, college education, two years and one promotion. So ah and you know what, it’s neither where my girls or seem to be remotely interested. So they’re probably smarter, they but they got a good education. 07:18.22Doug Renfroand And we’ve got our age range on Gen 4 is like 23 to 38. 07:19.88vigorbrandingkind 07:23.63Doug RenfroSo you know some of them, I didn’t come back till I was 29, I think. 07:23.85vigorbrandingMm hmm. 07:27.19Doug RenfroSo there’s you know wait we’ve got lots of time. I’m not ancient yet, but you know I’ve still got some time in me. 07:33.14vigorbrandingYeah, well, yeah, sure. Of course you do. and Now you said, in one of your quotes, it was something like, ah ah if people say their family business journey, if if people have said ah their family business journey has been a smooth road, they’re a smooth liar. 07:46.85Doug Renfroso 07:46.95vigorbrandingah but Talk a little bit about the struggles and the family and all that kind of stuff. 07:47.79Doug Renfrowell 07:51.08vigorbrandingJust, you know, like some of the things you have to overcome, because it’s always amazing to me. ah ah Just, you know, what what all is involved there. 07:59.16Doug RenfroYeah, it’s it’s funny. i’ve I’ve spoken to the TCU family business class like eight years in a row now. And I usually start out with how much time do I have? um But is anyone recording this? I’m like you. But you know, one of the things you deal with is like my late uncle and my dad, they, to me, they see me in diapers when I started talking because that’s how they met me. 08:19.23vigorbrandingMm hmm. 08:19.42Doug RenfroAnd it’s hard, you know, they’ve seen you be a silly kid and get in trouble. And now I’m telling them they need to change the branding. You’re like, you know, what’s this little kid saying, shut up and get back over there. And frankly, if you don’t have, you know, if you don’t demand this much of your ego to be around, one of the secrets I tell them is get somebody without your last name to suggest the same idea you’ve been suggesting that’s been ridiculed. And suddenly, it’s a great idea. 08:42.33vigorbrandingHmm. 08:43.81Doug RenfroAnd actually, it becomes their idea. And as long as you can live with that, you know, if it’s all for the greater good, you know, foul I don’t have to get credit for everything, and I don’t have to get immediate results. It’s slow, steady progress to me. Because you and I have seen a lot of people that you know skyrocket up and then skyrocket back down. 08:59.28vigorbrandingYep, that’s right. 09:00.96Doug RenfroIt’s about gradual process. We have we have no investors. you know We just use bank debt when we need it. um It’s all still family controlled. And because of that, it’s more slow, steady path. But yeah, well I think you know I’ve told you that my dad and my late uncle had a rule. They were 50-50. They had a a little sister who didn’t work here, but she could be a swing vote, but they had an agreement. They never ever did anything important if it wasn’t a unanimous vote. They didn’t go get a tiebreaker. So now my cousins and I who run it, we have 84% of the votes of the company, and we could outvote each other on certain things. 09:30.24vigorbrandingThat’s great. 09:38.26Doug RenfroAnd we’ve done the same thing. if it’s I’m talking about a capital expenditure branding campaign, a new flavor. big things. We have to be unanimous or we don’t do it. I just assume I’m missing something if I can’t convince them both and vice versa. And now that’s key. I’ve seen friends who make a lot more money and have a lot more wealth, who have a sibling they can’t talk to, they’ve never spoken to in 20 years, and it breaks their parents’ heart. And we’ve chosen not to do that. 09:59.72vigorbrandingyeah Yep. 10:02.50Doug RenfroWe’ve we’ve gone with family harmony, so we sub-optimize, but it’s a family business. 10:02.81vigorbrandingYeah. 10:05.90Doug RenfroWe can do that. 10:06.99vigorbrandingYep. And you know, that’s, ah that’s really important. I mean, I know you obviously get it because you said all those words. and and But, but, you know, when you have the family involved, I mean, you know, the family, it’s important. 10:17.69Doug RenfroOkay. 10:18.01vigorbrandingthere’s I don’t know that there’s anything more important than family. And you’re, you know, the the company is what supports the family. And so if they can’t all be harm, if there can’t be harmony, At the end of the day, we have. and so I admire you for that, the way you’re handling it, because ah as you’re you’re right. We’ve seen a lot of ah more, unfortunately, probably more examples than not where you know somebody gets ah iced out, or they’re not talking, or you know the families are completely ah dysfunctional now, you know but maybe maybe the business survives, or maybe it doesn’t. and That’s just tragic. so 10:49.71vigorbrandingAnd so speaking of, your Uncle Bill, you said, I think one of your other quotes in an interview said something like, you can be brutally honest with each other about ideas. ah he could He could call you an idiot and it’s no big deal. So, I mean, that’s that’s that’s a benefit, right? That level of honesty. 11:03.05Doug RenfroYeah, that’s key is that we were i famously tell that story that like I would say to him or he to me that, you know, I think what you just said was the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard from a business perspective, where do you want to go to lunch? Because we didn’t, you know, there was no personal aspect to it. And and that’s key. If you take business things personally, that screws the relationships all up. 11:22.85vigorbrandingso you Now, back to the salsa. You have 20 different flavors. and how do you I know you’re the one that’s ah um coming up with a lot of the different formulas. How are you finding that inspiration? I mean, just out there in the world, i mean you said that the the the the mango habanero came from ah a meal you had somewhere. is that Is that pretty much what you’re looking at, just trends and things like that? 11:42.45Doug RenfroYeah, I tell people I’m cursed to have to eat at the nicest restaurants in the nation and, you know, read cool food magazines and see what’s going on. But yeah, it is that that simple, which is not actually simple, is always looking around. You want to see what’s on the edge. You know, I we developed a bacon queso for a customer. And as you know, a lot of what we do is creating things for other people. Our names know we’re on it. There’s no indication we made it. ah But people looked at us for ideation. I’ve had grocery chains come to me and they’re like, what should we do for a private label salsa? 12:12.69Doug RenfroIt’s going to be our first time. And I don’t mean, we’ll never make the mild, medium, and hot for the big folks, but if they want a pineapple chipotle or something, they were one of the few players that they will come to. 12:19.59vigorbrandingRight. 12:22.91Doug RenfroAnd i’ll I’ll give them my ideas. Half the time they run with that, say make some recipes for us. Half the time they do the total opposite of what I suggested. As long as they pay us, I’m fine. 12:31.59vigorbrandingYeah, makes sense. 12:31.88Doug Renfroum But yeah, you’re looking at, and and as you know with trends, most of them won’t become a mango habanero or a ghost pepper, which are in a habanero, which are top sellers. You know, I thought pomegranate chipotle was a great idea. Not many other people did. ah So, you know, you end up DC and you ski rationalization um is painful, but we do go through that. 12:49.81vigorbrandingWell, and you have to balance that. like you You can be out there too far out on the trends. I mean, a quench, we’ we’re big on trends. We do trends presentations every year, and I know you’ve seen them and been a part of them. And you know so you you see these things that are out there. You want to kind of be first to market, but that can be dangerous because you know maybe maybe the pomegranate is going to be something that will be fantastic maybe in another six months. If you’re too far out in front, you can you can you know get delisted, as you said. or But if you if you would just sit back and be hot and medium and you know mild, I mean, that’s no good either. 13:22.12vigorbrandingSo I really i admire what you’ve done. And I think that the the branding you’ve done and the flavoring you’ve done is fantastic. And just just for all honesty, I don’t do the branding. I mean, your your your design package stuff is impeccable. And I’ve always been a big fan of it. So ah congratulations on that. 13:39.90Doug RenfroThank you. 13:42.28vigorbrandingSo, I mean, now, how many do you try and make? I mean, like, ah is there in your mind, you say, hey, we should come up with two new SKUs a year? Is it sort of like when I find something I like, we’ll make it? ah how does How does that work? 13:55.53Doug RenfroBut it’s two different answers based on when it was. When I came back, we we weren’t really in grocery stores per se. 13:58.43vigorbrandingOkay. 14:02.35Doug RenfroWe were in fruit stands at the time and different things. So we were fighting for our lives. My cousins and I needed more money. Our dads wanted more money. We needed it. You were raising families. 14:12.71vigorbrandingYeah. 14:13.20Doug Renfroand so we were literally being told no constantly go away because we had hot medium mild and green taco sauce. That’s all we had. And so with no permission, one day when nobody was looking, I added black beans to the medium. Then I added the habanero, which was crazy exotic sexy at the time, you know, super hot. And we would, my sales director and I, he’s been with us 32 years and it’s non-family. We would go to retailers around the country and in Canada and say, hey, I know you have a million sauces before you throw me out. We have a black bean and a habanero at an everyday price, not a gourmet price. It gives you variety. And they started saying, yeah, that’s they’re delicious. That makes sense. We love your company and your marketing and your products. And this will give us variety. And they started putting it in and we were just you know making it up praying. And so after that, we did a 15:01.69Doug Renfrobut we A couple of years later, we did Chipotle, corn. we i We were early on Chipotle. Nobody could say it, including our own staff. I walked through the office. I’m here. Chipotle. Chipotle. 15:10.26vigorbrandingbut 15:10.84Doug RenfroI’m like, oh my god, we can’t pronounce our own product. ah Then when you when Chipotle, the chain became big, they taught everybody. And then Jack in the Box made a hilarious ad about how to power pronounce it. And so, yeah, I would look at things, you know, I saw a ghost pepper in a chocolate bar. I’d been watching it for a couple of years. When I saw it in a chocolate bar, and I told the family, I think we can put it in salsa. My uncle thought we were gonna get sued, so we put a crossbones skull on it, ex-scary hot. 15:33.05vigorbrandingHmm. 15:34.74Doug Renfroand The Today Show fell in love with it, gave us a solid minute on the Today Show back when we all watched TV and there were no streaming channels. ah Huge success. But at this point, now we’re mature. 15:45.35vigorbrandingYeah. 15:47.18Doug Renfroand frankly we’re busier than ever on rnd but it’s all for food service co-pack and private label clients with renfro what you’ll see is the big chains will want you to give them two items with a significant slotting and kick out your two slowest ones and i’m like no thank you but if you give us two if you’ll give us two more spots incrementally, we’ll take it, and that happens. But for now, when the when COVID hit, the supply chain fund and the inflation that followed that, frankly, we haven’t come up with a new item since Blackberry Serrano was our last one. 16:20.17vigorbrandingNice. 16:20.37Doug RenfroAnd we’ve kind of hunkered down. So you know maybe Pavone pomegranate is next. 16:25.34vigorbrandingThere you go. I love it. 16:26.20Doug RenfroI’m still thinking. 16:29.01vigorbrandingSo what what is the what is the mix between ah branded sales, I’ll say, and and food service ah percentages? 16:36.24Doug Renfroi And there’s there’s brand

Burney Jennings is the CEO and president of Biscuitville. Burney took over the leadership reins from his father and founder of Biscuitville Maurice Jennings in 1996. Burney's bold leadership, vision and keen sense of knowing what customers want has contributed to the company's growth and success. Headquartered in Greensboro, North Carolina, Biscuitville Fresh Southern is a family-owned company serving authentic Southern food made fresh daily from locally sourced ingredients. Known as the Home of the Biscuit Window Since 1966, Biscuitville serves scratch-made biscuits baked fresh every 15 minutes. Biscuitville employs over 2,400 people and operates more than 70 restaurants in North Carolina, Virginia and South Carolina. In July 2023, Biscuitville was voted the nation's Best Fast Food Breakfast & Best Regional Fast Food restaurant in the 2023 USA Today Readers' Choice 10Best contest. Burney's father inherited his mother's famous biscuit recipe after his ailing mother gave him a choice of his inheritance – the recipe or the farm. Burney's father chose the recipe and the rest is history. Biscuitville has stood out from the competition for not working with food delivery services like Uber Eats and GrubHub. According to Burney, the decision was based on several factors including the inability to accommodate to-go orders because the restaurant is so busy. Biscuitville has made headlines with its “Life After 2” program in which each of its locations close at 2pm each day. The program allows employees to pursue other interests and spend more time with their families.  QUOTES “(My grandmother) gave my dad – since he was the oldest – the choice: My biscuit recipe or the farm. He chose the biscuit recipe.” (Burney)“The key to a good biscuit is love.” (Burney)“Growing up, my dad was fascinated by chain restaurants. My dad told me, ‘We all know how to make a McDonald's hamburger. We know the ingredients. It's not about the burger, it's how they do it. It's the system they put in place. It's the marketing, it's the brand, it's the people, it's the execution.'” (Burney)“We started closing at 2pm. Our food quality went up, our food costs went down and our employees are much happier. Now of course, you need to be a morning person. If you're not a morning person, we're not a good place for you.” (Burney) “We really strive to work with local companies first, and if we can't be local, we work with family businesses.” (Burney) “We've been able to differentiate ourselves in the breakfast space because we close at 2pm. People know breakfast is our focus.” (Burney)  TRANSCRIPT 00:00.01Burney JenningsI can, this is not too close. 00:04.65vigorbrandingNo, ye you’re perfect. 00:05.35Burney JenningsNo video? Okay. 00:06.54vigorbrandingYep. Okay. You ready to roll? 00:08.75Burney JenningsNow I’m ready to roll. 00:10.09vigorbrandingAll right. Welcome, Fork Tales fans. The best biscuits in the world are made in the South, of course. And the best place to buy those biscuits is a restaurant called Biscuitville. Today’s guest is the chairman of bisop but Biscuitville, Bernie Jennings, and we’re going to talk about biscuits, family, and a whole lot more. Bernie, thank you so much for joining us. Welcome, and we’re looking forward to hearing your story. 00:35.38Burney JenningsThank you, Michael. I appreciate you inviting me to your podcast. 00:39.08vigorbrandingVery cool. So, okay. We’ll start sort of in the beginning here. Your father founded Biscuitville in 1966 and you were raised to eventually take over the reins, which you did in 1996. You often joke that your birth date and your higher date are the same date. ah Talk about that a little bit. Talk about the start and how you got into the business and how you were raised basically in the business. 01:03.01Burney JenningsSure, so I feel like I was born into the business watching my dad as an entrepreneur, um you know, try different things in the restaurant business. He started out with, you know, really a bread store um and he was selling day-old bread and um through his travels and he was also selling flour as not flowers as in roses but flour um by the train carload um and he saw pizza and he thought that was a pretty neat concept so he started a concept called pizza to go 01:28.83vigorbrandingWow. 01:35.86Burney JenningsI eventually added biscuits in the morning because it was of as in a slow day part to no day part. And to make a long story short, change the name to Pizzaville. The biscuits were doing really well. I said, but let me just see if I can make a go at a biscuit concept without the pizza. and opened up one in downtown Danville, Virginia called it Biscuitville and the story goes on from there. Eventually converted all the pizzavills over to Biscuitvilles and we’ve been growing ever since. But to answer your question, watching my dad go through that and I remember yeah he used to do his own training videos and 02:15.96Burney Jenningsyeah middle of the night, yeah know I fell asleep at about 1130 and he woke me up at 630 in the morning when they were doing the videos and I just feel like I grew grew up in the business. um But you know how did I get into the business? 02:27.33vigorbrandingThat. 02:31.64Burney Jenningsum I call myself a late bloomer. I didn’t know what I wanted to do when I was growing up. I didn’t know if I wanted to be in the restaurant business, in the real estate business, oh just didn’t know. So when I got out of college, I started working for my dad doing odds and end jobs and eventually worked my way into a restaurant we called, what we had called the cutting board, which was a steakhouse in Burlington. um From that started managing a Pizzaville restaurant. And you know from that went over to the Biscuitville side and really worked every department in the company. 03:08.55Burney Jenningsum I didn’t run all the departments, but I got an exposure to that. And around 1996, my dad made me president of the company. But it wasn’t like I set out to the be in it. 03:17.62vigorbrandingWow. 03:22.29Burney JenningsBut once I started getting a taste of it, I loved it. 03:25.85vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. So like I have a rule like for my daughters, ah not that they’re interested whatsoever in what I’m doing ever, but if they want to get into the business, my my rule was you have to work somewhere for two years and get one promotion. Did you guys have anything like that? 03:40.12Burney JenningsRight. 03:41.12vigorbrandingOr is there any kind of rules that you set up that way or anything you know to that to that thing? Or is it just a coincidence? It just happened happened to work out. 03:48.73Burney JenningsIt just happened to work out for me. However, I also learned that rule. having you know I have four kids. One of them does work in the company, my oldest son, Blake, and he had to do the same thing. He worked about five or six years outside of our business before he joined us. And his skillset is real estate development, did that in Washington, DC in Raleigh. But I think that’s really important, joining a family business to have that outside experience before joining. 04:12.40vigorbrandingMmhmm. 04:18.74Burney JenningsAnd I’m sure I would have benefited from it. 04:19.01vigorbrandingAmen. Yeah, well, and you know, look, we I talked to a lot of folks that are part of family businesses and, you know, it’s it’s awesome, right? yeah And there’s there’s nothing more important than family, right? 04:29.60Burney JenningsYeah. 04:30.37vigorbrandingand but But family owned businesses, I mean, it can be it can be a difficult run. I mean, you know, there’s we we, you and I certainly know of a lot of of of of family businesses where there’s turmoil and problems. So ah to navigate that, I think it’s good to have those rules set up out front and And you gotta abide by them, right? I mean, it’s ah it’s an important thing. 04:49.95Burney JenningsYeah. 04:51.07vigorbrandingSo now, is your son, is he going to be, I mean, what is his role right now? 04:56.05Burney JenningsHe does a real estate development work, yeah repair which would include the construction repairs and maintenance site selection. 04:57.93vigorbrandingOkay. 05:03.21vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 05:03.88Burney JenningsI mean, that’s that’s his job. 05:07.45vigorbrandingYeah, which is not nothing, because you have how many locations? Like 50 plus, right? 05:10.79Burney JenningsYeah, we’re about 79 locations a day with four under construction. 05:13.16vigorbrandingWow. Okay. Wow. Jeez. 05:16.06Burney JenningsYeah. 05:16.19vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. So yeah I want to take it back to the beginning because I love, I always say there’s always these great stories, right? So I love this story. Your ailing grandmother called her grandsons to her bedside, which had been your father, asked them to choose their inheritance. 05:28.11Burney JenningsRight? 05:31.03vigorbrandingSo you want to tell that story? 05:33.05Burney JenningsYeah, so he she gave my dad since he was the oldest on the choice between the biscuit recipe or the farm and he chose the biscuit recipe and my brother might hit my uncle which was his brother got the farm. 05:49.20vigorbrandingSo how did the farm work out? I mean, is was he happy with that trade? 05:51.52Burney JenningsYou know, I say my dad, and and I think it’s just a great story. Interestingly enough, um my uncle used to ask me, where’s the farm? He was he he still was looking for the farm. um it’s eastern east and My grandparents lived in eastern Tennessee, in a great area. 06:09.33vigorbrandingOkay. 06:11.84Burney JenningsIn fact, there’s a Jennings Cemetery there, lots of Jennings there. 06:14.51vigorbrandingWow. 06:17.11vigorbrandingWow. So, so the farm does exist. 06:17.94Burney JenningsYeah. 06:19.03vigorbrandingYour uncle got the farm. Did he ever, was your uncle ever a part of the business? 06:20.61Burney JenningsYeah. Um, so when we look at the business side, I mentioned early on that my dad was a flower salesman. 06:28.81vigorbrandingYep. 06:28.91Burney JenningsUm, that was with, that was something that his dad or my grandfather, this is my grandfather had. And that’s a business. My uncle, who was a younger brother took over when my dad got into restaurant business. 06:40.71vigorbrandingGotcha. 06:42.31Burney JenningsMy uncle did the flower business. 06:45.72vigorbrandingThat’s funny. 06:46.46Burney JenningsYeah. 06:46.48vigorbrandingDoes a farm in Tennessee still exist? 06:49.04Burney JenningsNo, I mean, that yeah, it exists, but it’s not family owned anymore. 06:50.00vigorbrandingOkay. 06:52.36vigorbrandingNot in a family. That’s funny. 06:53.42Burney JenningsYeah. Yeah. 06:55.24vigorbrandingSo I guess without giving away the secret recipe, the thing that that your father chose, what’s what’s the key to a good biscuit? 06:55.37Burney JenningsYeah. 07:03.02Burney JenningsYeah, so my dad was very, very practical. And I’ll answer the question, the key to the good bisits the key to a good biscuit is love. And what I mean by that is growing up, my um yeah my dad was fascinated with chain restaurants. And he he told me, look, we all know how to make a McDonald’s hamburger. We know the ingredients. It’s not about the McDonald’s hamburger. It’s how they do it. It’s the system they put in place. It’s the marketing. It’s the brand. It’s the it’s a people. It’s the execution. He said, so yeah when when we look at making a good biscuit, 07:44.93Burney JenningsIt’s pretty simple ingredients. It’s self-rising flour, shortening, and buttermilk. 07:50.23vigorbrandingMm hmm. 07:50.31Burney JenningsIt’s what do you do with it? How do you market it? How are, you know, it’s a friendliness. How do you make the people who are buying it feel special? So I call it love. It’s that’s how you make a good biscuit. 07:59.82vigorbrandingYep. 08:02.26vigorbrandingYeah. Well, you know, bra I’ve known you for a long time and you’re very engaging and you can it’s amazing because it’s I can tell you care. and And you know, people might be listening saying, okay, right, you make it with love. 08:10.06Burney JenningsYeah. 08:12.71vigorbrandingBut like family, not just your family, your company, you see your company as a family. And I think that whole, that passion and that caring for people really, really comes through. 08:17.61Burney JenningsRight. 08:22.62vigorbrandingAnd I think I commend you for that. And ah I mean, I just think that’s an ah it’s an amazing attribute to you and your company. 08:29.06Burney JenningsWell, thank you. 08:30.68vigorbrandingSo Biscuitville has made some great headlines in recent years for going against industry trends. And I’m i’m always impressed by things like this. It’s hard to stand by, I’ll say, you’re your your beliefs, if you will, and you know i mean from just being open for breakfast ah you know to to you know all the other things that you that you do and that you keep sacred, I guess. um So the one of the huge trends, obviously, especially since COVID was ah third party delivery services like Uber Eats, DoorDash, and Grubhub. um you You are not working with them, is that correct? 09:05.54Burney JenningsThat is correct. Yeah, I can expand. 09:07.88vigorbrandingwhat And the thinking there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 09:09.57Burney JenningsYeah, 09:10.23vigorbrandingi’d like to yeah I want to hear a little bit about thinking there because i’ I’m intrigued. 09:14.03Burney Jenningsyeah so it’s it’s several things. One, um we have worked on our packaging so our food can travel well. um An example in in in the restaurant business is french fries. How do you keep a french fry hot and fresh for 20 minutes while it’s going from your restaurant to to be delivered? 09:30.01vigorbrandingMm hmm. 09:35.33Burney JenningsSo our biscuits are best eaten fresh. um When we look at our business, we’re opened basically eight and a half hours a day, 5.30 to 2 in the afternoon. And we do a lot of business in a short period of timeframe and getting to go order like an Uber Eats order on a 930 on a Saturday done workforce because we’re having trouble. you know, taking care of those guests that are in front of us. um yeah Chipotle, I think, has done a really good job in their restaurants of making a second makeup line just for to-go orders so that it doesn’t mess up their dining. 10:15.27Burney JenningsWith us, we we we have the dining room and we have the drive-through. Drive-throughs went from pre-COVID around 63% of sales to now 75% of sales. 10:26.94vigorbrandingWow. 10:27.69Burney JenningsIt does seem to be coming off a little bit, but it’s holding holding in that number. um So we’re doing a tremendous amount of business in a short period of time and it’s part of a capacity issue of how do you fit those orders in. So it’s on our radar. 10:42.93vigorbrandingMmhmm. 10:45.08Burney JenningsI think we’ll end up solving the packaging and solving some of the back of house stuff but for right now it’s not it’s not top of mind for us. 10:53.42vigorbrandingWell, and again, you know, going back to to like what I was saying earlier about you and the way you, ah your personality, everything, you know, you say you make these biscuits with love. Well, you’re not, you you refuse to sell them ah through a delivery service because it’s not about the delivery service, per se, it’s more about like the quality of the product that they’re going to get at the end of the day. And at the end of the day, that’s your brand, right? I mean, your Biscuitville and, you know, you don’t want to have, a you you don’t want to to have um anything happen to that product that diminishes the the experience, the consumer experience. 11:13.52Burney JenningsYeah. 11:20.02Burney JenningsRight. 11:23.16Burney Jenningsand I agree. And I like those delivery services. I use them my so my myself. 11:26.72vigorbrandingYep. 11:28.08Burney JenningsIt is definitely not about the delivery service. They’re doing a great job in providing ah a good service. 11:33.84vigorbrandingYep. The other thing, and i’m I’m curious about this too, because again, I commend you for it. So I’m not, well, by no means am I questioning it, but 5.30 a.m. ah to closing at two, I mean, you know, again, most most restaurants out there be like, okay, well, that’s great for them. 11:41.49Burney JenningsYeah. 11:47.45vigorbrandingWhat are we gonna do for the the you know lunch? You know, we’re gonna make this, we’re gonna make that. What about dinner? We’re gonna make this, we’re gonna make that. I mean, everyone would try and open up as many day parts as he absolutely humanly could. And look at some of the different QSRs, like I’ll say, like McDonald’s. I mean, they’re they’re in the basic dessert business, they’re in the coffee business, they’re in the whatever the next trend du jour is. 12:05.27Burney JenningsRight. 12:08.55vigorbrandinghow How hard was it for you to stay sort of, ah for lack of a word, true to yourself and just do this this morning, 5.30 a.m. to closing it to? 12:17.24Burney JenningsYeah, so we started out open till eight o’clock at night. We had bone-on chicken. 12:20.36vigorbrandingOkay. 12:21.92Burney Jenningsum We added vegetables. and We had a lot of different products. And to make a long story short, from about one o’clock in the afternoon till 5.30, it was pretty much dead. 12:33.71vigorbrandingMm hmm. 12:33.98Burney JenningsAnd when you’re in the quick service business, people want a great product that’s fresh. And you can imagine how it’s difficult it is to do that when you really don’t have much business between one and 530. 12:41.66vigorbrandingYep. 12:49.41Burney JenningsAnd this was before snacking, you know, the snacking concept and the coffee concepts and people, you know, going to a restaurant um in mid afternoon really existed. 12:53.51vigorbrandingMm hmm. 13:00.21Burney JenningsSo we dropped that day part, started closing it too. um Our food quality went up, our food costs went down, and our employees were much happier. 13:11.53vigorbrandingMm 13:11.84Burney JenningsSo now we call it when we’re hiring, it’s called life after two. So we use that as a selling point to hire people. Now of course you need to be a morning person. If you’re not a morning person, We’re not a good place. We’re not a good place for you. um You definitely need to be a morning person. um So that means I’d say the majority of our management team is geared towards closing it to being at home with their family, having worked out if they do have a family who’s going to take care of those kids in the morning so they can be there in the afternoon. 13:37.79vigorbrandinghmm. 13:46.54Burney JenningsIt’s a big decision staying open later and how many people are you going to lose because that’s not what they signed up for. 13:46.59vigorbrandingYeah. 13:53.07vigorbrandingThat’s right. And that’s very smart of you to look around the corner because let’s face it. I mean, I love that that life after two. I think that’s super smart. I mean, and again, I say this because knowing you for a while, I could tell that like company culture, you treat everything like family and that whole life after two plays right into that. 14:06.26Burney JenningsYeah. 14:08.75vigorbrandingSo it’s not a It’s not another gimmick or it’s not a, well, we you know we got we got to worry about our employees. It’s something you’ve always done. 14:14.95Burney JenningsYeah. 14:15.45vigorbrandingand and Candidly, I think that’s reflected in the quality of the product. you say you The biscuits are made with love. I think that’s what you know people sign up for this life after two and they’re they’re’re they’re dedicated to you and your brand and the family. i think that’s ah I think that’s very commendable and something I think people try to build or create later, but you’ve always sort of had that incorporated, haven’t you? 14:36.98Burney JenningsRight. 14:38.19vigorbrandingSo, okay, three quarters of your sales come from drive-through customers. That’s in line with most of the fast food industry, which is around 70. 14:41.54Burney JenningsYes. 14:45.17vigorbrandingLast year you opened your first drive-through only location. Do you see a lot of potential for more drive-throughs? Is that like maybe the future? ah Or is it still in the test and learn phase? 14:56.76Burney JenningsYes, in the test and learn phase, um we opened up eight restaurants last year. All of them had a dining room, except for that one. That is a test location. And then the next eight, we were planning on the the dining room. We found the dining room does add to our return on investment. And we got 25% of our guests coming in into the dining room. Now, about 10% of them are taking it to go, but another 15 are staying in the dining room. So we see it as something here to say, here to stay. 15:24.63vigorbrandingMm hmm. 15:27.23vigorbrandingOkay. Good. Good. So what do you think? What’s the best thing on your menu? Other than the biscuit? I think that’d be the obvious answer. 15:33.01Burney Jenningsah my my favorite is so My favorite is sausage, egg, and cheese with sc with scrambled egg. 15:34.25vigorbrandingWhat do you think? 15:37.33vigorbrandingOh, there you go. ah Perfect. 15:39.76Burney JenningsYou know, our our sausage is made by Swaggerty. It’s a third, and I think getting ready to go on a fourth generation family business out of Servirville, Tennessee, which is right by Dollywood. 15:46.88vigorbrandingWow. 15:50.29vigorbrandingUh huh. 15:50.62Burney Jenningsum And, you know, I didn’t mention it early on, but we really strive to go with local companies first. And if we can’t be local, We want them to be family business doesn’t always work out that way, but you know a fourth generation family business for our sausage, a third or fourth generation for baking bacon coming out of um Ohio. um yeah Our helm is made locally you know in Wiltsboro. Um, yeah, it’s that, that local or family is really important. 16:21.46Burney JenningsOh, and we decided community coffee about three years ago and they’re in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. 16:25.31vigorbrandingVery cool. Yep. 16:28.26Burney JenningsGreat, great family business. 16:30.10vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Very cool. 16:31.05Burney JenningsYeah. 16:31.56vigorbrandingWell, you know, it’s like, you you know, some of the things are like the shift to drive-throughs and then, you know, take out. 16:38.39Burney JenningsYeah. 16:38.47vigorbrandingAnd, you know, I mean, that, that happened. COVID really, you know, moved a lot of that along fast. You know, like we see things like Pizza Hut’s practically eliminating dine in, but it really feels like the Biscuitville brand and just sort of the way you feel about family and the folks. It feels like the dine-in is here to stay as far as Biscuitville, right? i mean that’s like It feels like that’s a it’s a really integral part of your brand and and your your brand promise and the the love, the fresh and all that kind of thing. 16:58.74Burney JenningsYeah. 17:05.66Burney JenningsNo, it is. Yeah. Have no, no, no plans on changing it. And even it you when we look at this drive through only um test, that’s a concept that we would put on a smaller site where we couldn’t fit a restaurant with a dining room, but we want, we definitely wanted to be in that market. 17:27.96vigorbrandingYeah, that makes total sense. 17:28.74Burney JenningsSo we we to to us, that’s an add-on, not a replacement. 17:29.00vigorbrandingand Yeah, absolutely. 17:32.16Burney Jenningsbut Yes. 17:33.48vigorbrandingSo you’ve got more than 70 locations, as you mentioned, in the Carolinas and Virginia, which is ah a lot of restaurants in a, I’ll say not a small area, but a tight, tight, tight footprint. 17:41.34Burney JenningsRight. 17:43.47vigorbrandingAll of your locations are company owned, no franchisees. ah That gives you a lot of control of the brand, the product. and But does does that does that limit growth for you as well? And talk about the the idea of not franchising versus franchising and the benefits. 17:57.73Burney JenningsSure, let’s go with the first one, the growth. ah We just moved into South Carolina two years ago and that’s a big part of our growth. 18:04.29vigorbrandingNice. 18:07.28Burney Jenningsum are Three years ago, all of our restaurants were within the two-hour drive of Greensboro, North Carolina, which is our headquarters. Now we’re in about a three and a half hour drive. So we just opened up in Columbia, South Carolina, in Florence, in Harpsville, and one in Neuber, North Carolina. um The growth rate is limited. I mean, the being company owned limits your growth rate. 18:31.08vigorbrandingMhm. 18:31.28Burney JenningsWe don’t have an unlimited supply of cash and equity to grow. So you can only grow as fast as the money that you’re borrow able to borrow or the money you’re able to put into it. 18:36.86vigorbrandingRight. 18:44.16vigorbrandingRight. 18:44.52Burney Jenningsum You could certainly grow faster having private equity come in and buy a big stake, but just not interested in going down that path. 18:48.70vigorbrandingMhm. 18:53.37Burney Jenningsanother growth Another way to grow faster is the franchising model, something I have zero experience with. We may do that one day, but right now um where we want to own it and control it, and you mentioned it earlier, we feel like it gives us a lot more control over um the operations piece. 19:16.52vigorbrandingI think it does and I think that, and um look, we have a lot of brands that are franchised and it’s great and they’re smart business models, but but just again, going back to like how you feel about it. And you know, you said your biscuits, I love it. In the be beginning, they’re made with love. Well, there has to be an extreme amount of control there. So you’re not willing to just ship them out and into through a delivery service for quality sake. 19:35.75Burney Jenningsright 19:40.16vigorbrandingYou’re not willing to just sell your your your brand to other people and put it in their hands you know with the fear that maybe it won’t be up to the to your standards. I think there’s a whole lot of ah things that you’re doing or you’re choosing not to do that are actually making you successful. I think that’s really commendable. 19:55.96Burney Jenningsyeah but Thank you. 19:55.98vigorbrandingI think it’s very difficult to do because you know business is business, right? And like you know it’s about it’s about revenue and growth and all that. So I commend you for kind of sticking to your guns, if you will, and and doing things the way you do it. um So yeah last year Biscuit Fills voted best fast food breakfast in the u and in a USA Today readers poll. that’s That’s huge and congratulations on that. 20:16.39Burney Jenningsright Thank you. 20:17.83vigorbrandingSo we’re seeing a lot of the fast food breakfast wars and and they’ve been raging for a long time. Everyone’s kind of getting into it ah and the that’s a huge win for you. do you what What do you attribute that to that win? So you’re up against all this competition. You guys are voted number one. 20:32.80Burney JenningsYeah, for us, um in fact, every now and then I’m talking to somebody and they get us confused with Chick-fil-A. And by the way, we’re not Chick-fil-A. It’s a different concept, but they go they think we’re closing on Sundays. 20:46.25vigorbrandingMm hmm. 20:46.27Burney Jenningsit’s yeah we are we’ve put us We have worked hard to put us into a premium QSR category. 20:54.35vigorbrandingMm hmm. 20:55.03Burney JenningsSo when we look at how we compare ourselves, certainly we’re comparing, um we do competitionensation competition shopping with Chick-fil-A, Bojangles, McDonald’s, and Hardee’s. 21:07.89vigorbrandingMm hmm. 21:07.96Burney JenningsAnd those are really the core ones in our market. But when we look at our pricing and the quality of the ingredients we’re using, We want to make sure we’re using better ingredients than they are. Now, granted, an egg is an egg is an egg. you can’t yeah You can’t do anything different there, but you can do something different with your bacon, with your sausage, with the, you know, using a center cut ham. um yeah the The chicken, like our chicken, is the Springer Mountain Farms label, which is what you see in high-end restaurants. 21:36.08vigorbrandingMm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 21:42.29Burney JenningsIt costs us more money, but that’s important to us because we think it’s a better product. And when you yeah when you have what we think, really which we know is a better product, you gotta charge a premium price for that. So when we look at our pricing, it’s not gonna be the same. You put our pricing up against any of the people we competition shop with, I tell our folks, it better be higher. It better be more expensive because we’re spending more money than they are putting that product in front of the guests. 22:04.64vigorbrandingRight. 22:10.85vigorbrandingAbsolutely. so we’re like ah There’s obviously a consistent thread here as far as quality. ah Working with family-owned businesses. 22:18.86Burney JenningsYes. 22:19.09vigorbrandingah you know i’ll say so I’ll say smaller types of companies. how Where did that come from? i mean like Is that all you? i mean Was that something instilled by your father? Where did that sort of dedication to, I’ll say family, quality of life for your employees, and and and and clean ingredients and and and and the like, where did that all come from? 22:39.35Burney JenningsYeah, I’ll give a, it’s a two-part answer. One, on the you know ingredient side, we did some research about 10 years ago, and it was internal and external. And it what we found, and it was just by chance, being a smaller chain and local chain, We had, by chance, been dealing with family-owned businesses and local businesses, and many of our customers knew that, but we didn’t play on it. ah like We didn’t point it out, and we said, wait a minute. 23:16.79Burney JenningsThis is something if our customers know about it and care about it, there’s probably some who don’t know about it but do care about it. So we we made that part of our strategy on a go-forward basis to really focus on local businesses first and family owned businesses second. And then the second um is is the how we treat our people. I think that’s what you were asking in how we operate in our business. 23:42.88vigorbrandingMm hmm. 23:47.78Burney JenningsPart of that is being a family businesses. I truly believe family businesses approach business and how they treat people different than public companies and different than private equity. So in part of it was my upbringing from my parents on how you treat people and treating people with respect and treating people how you want to be treated. So my team kind of knows this if there’s ever a dilemma when it comes to the people. but be yeah so How do you, if this was you how do you, how would you like to see the answer? 24:19.95vigorbrandingright 24:20.20Burney JenningsAnd sometimes it’s financially, I mean, it hurts us financially, but it I think we benefit in the long run. So, you know, I try not to be penny wise and pound foolish in making those financial decisions. 24:31.67vigorbrandingyeah 24:34.34vigorbrandingI have a strong constitution when it comes to that. I think I really commend you on it. 24:37.00Burney JenningsYeah. 24:37.76vigorbrandingI think that’s wonderful. um You know, so you’re also voted best regional fast food chain. ah There’s a lot of Southern fast food chains that wanted to win that. 24:46.13Burney JenningsYes. 24:47.59vigorbrandingCan you talk a little bit about that? Who the competition might have been and you know, why, why, why do you think that you you guys were picked? 24:54.29Burney Jenningsum you know There were several big operators who the competition might have been, um and I think they’re really good operators, and I’ve already you know i’ve already mentioned them. 25:02.52vigorbrandingMm hmm. 25:07.43Burney Jenningsum They got some great franchisees, McDonald’s, Bojangles, Hardee’s, Chick-fil-A. 25:07.67vigorbrandingYep. 25:13.23Burney JenningsThey’re all really, really good competitors and operators. um You know, for us, I think we are able to different differentiate ourselves in the breakfast space because we close it too. And we’ve already talked about that, but people know breakfast is our focus. And I think when you have that type of focus, it does put you ah in a better position to compete in that space. 25:40.12vigorbrandingamen and you know I’ll say on that focus, and I you know i know that i think you kind of answered this in a different way earlier, but I can’t help as ah as a marketer and an entrepreneur. i mean you know I have one marketing firm that does restaurant marketing, and I have another another marketing firm that does CPG, food and beverage, right two different companies. and you know you think well they are In my mind, they are very different because you know a restaurant is a retail business that just happens to sell food and beverage. and I don’t mean that to take that lightly, but CPG is you know is what it is. 26:06.40Burney JenningsRight. 26:10.39vigorbrandingit’s ah It’s branded food that is sold at at retail, usually at a gro obviously grocery store. so ah Different businesses, different business models, they just happen to both be food and beverage. 26:16.09Burney JenningsRight. 26:20.65vigorbrandingI’ve been seeing over the years a lot of crossover and you you know we have mutual friends that have restaurants on one side, but then they’ve taken their they’re they’ their primary item and they’ve moved it into the grocery chain. And I got to think with with the with the brand that you have at Biscuitville and the reputation, that if if you could figure out a way to package up those biscuits and get them in a grocer’s freezer, I gotta think that’s a home run. 26:44.98Burney JenningsYeah. 26:47.04vigorbrandingBut can you talk a little bit about that? I have a feeling it goes back to, like you were saying, fresh, fresh, fresh, fresh. So can you talk a little bit about that? Have you thought about that? Or is that maybe something on the horizon? 26:57.12Burney JenningsIf it’s not on the horizon, we have put very little thought into it. It does go back to yeah know the freshness of the product and how it would reflect on the brand. We may do that one day and you know it may be, um you know doing we have we have party biscuits. 27:11.41vigorbrandingHm. 27:15.09Burney Jenningsyeah We used to call them silver dollar. They’re just small biscuits that you’d see third on a platter or passed around around at a party. Something like that would be really good in my opinion, for yeah a freezer section in a grocery store. 27:29.85vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you see like ah some of the guys that, the you know, some of the folks have done parbake. So ah instead of it being like, for lack of but a better word, just a frozen ingredient built product, they’ll they’ll they’ll go so far as to, you know, partially bake it and then freeze it. 27:41.28Burney JenningsYeah. 27:46.77vigorbrandingAnd I think that makes one heck of a ah lot better, fresher product. And so 27:50.44Burney Jenningsyeah 27:50.83vigorbrandingthere there might That might be ah an opportunity for you. And hey, look, far bring it for me to tell you how to make biscuits. That’s the last thing I’m going to do. But from a marketing standpoint, I mean, boy, I got to tell you, I think you have such a great brand. And it comes down to just because of the fortitude and and really focusing on a ah breakfast segment, the biscuit, a time frame, fresh and making it with love that I think is 28:06.90Burney JenningsYeah. Right. 28:12.43vigorbrandingWell, that’s what makes great brands. So I think I think that’s awesome. 28:14.41Burney JenningsYeah. 28:15.70vigorbrandingSo I mean, you know, before we go here, like what’s what’s next for Biscuitville? What else? What else? you you For lack of a better word, cooking up. Is there new locations? Are you moving into any new areas? What would what excites you? what’s What’s going on at Biscuitville? 28:29.14Burney JenningsYou know, it’s the growth. We were a very slow growth company. I wouldn’t call us a fast growths growth company, but the new markets is where we’re focused. You know, South Carolina ah moving into Greenville next year, you know, just expanding in that South Carolina market is really important to us. 28:38.95vigorbrandingAwesome. 28:48.30vigorbrandingYeah that’s excellent and you know I’m a big trends guy I mean you know at Quench we do the food and beverage trends and the restaurant trends I’ve been doing it for I think it’s like 17 years now and I will say I mean you know that that focus 28:48.35Burney JenningsHope to get to Georgia one day, but that’s a good five or six years down the road. Yeah. 29:09.19vigorbrandingon a product and a focus on a day part. And if just the overall, again, the Constitution you have and the focus that you have and the fortitude you have is what makes brilliant and great brands. So I commend you for it. You check a lot of boxes. I’ll tell you as far as what’s on trend, what consumers want. And I think that’s that’s ah very, very admirable. So I guess keep up keep up the great work. 29:29.37Burney JenningsThank you. 29:31.24vigorbrandingso So now I have to have a good 29:31.64Burney JenningsThank you, Michael. But you know, hell ah you know, um I do read your material and Quench does a really good job at the market research. I love the presentations you do. They’re exciting, they’re engaging, and they are full of a lot of tidbits of information that I can walk away with. So you guys do a great job with that. 29:51.36vigorbrandingI appreciate you saying that. That’s very kind. Now before I let you go here, I have one last question. I’m going to, you know, you can’t say one of your biscuits. So it’s got, you got it. I’m going to steer you off your biscuits, right? You don’t have to mention any other brands, but if you had one final meal, What would you eat and why? 30:05.37Burney JenningsHmm One final meal my wife makes the best pepperoni pizza And I’ve had a lot of pepperoni pizza, especially since you know growing up we had a pizza pizza pizza restaurant um That’s I would say that that’s it 30:07.21vigorbrandingAnd maybe even where, if it’s a special restaurant or a special place or whatever else. 30:13.51vigorbrandingYeah. 30:22.52vigorbrandinglike ah Pizzaville. Yeah. 30:30.62vigorbrandingWell, maybe one day. 30:31.37Burney Jenningsits It’s very simple, pepperoni, cheese, sauce, and a great crust. 30:33.12vigorbrandingyeah 30:36.69vigorbrandingWe know history repeats itself. So maybe one day there’ll be this thing where, I mean, your grandmother, ah you know, gifted your father the biscuit recipe. 30:45.38Burney JenningsRight. 30:46.74vigorbrandingMaybe one day you’re your wife gifts the pepperoni ah recipe to one of your your your kids and maybe maybe it all comes back around, you know? 30:54.79Burney JenningsYou never know. 30:56.77vigorbrandingPizzaville reborn with with your with your wife’s recipe. 30:57.78Burney JenningsThat’s right. 30:59.55vigorbrandingI love it. 31:00.15Burney JenningsRight. 31:00.19vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Well, Bernie, you are fantastic as always. I really appreciate your time and thank you so much. And again, congratulations on such a great brand. And again, brands are built on promises. And I mean, your promises of of ah fresh and and love and and all that just really comes through and everything. And that’s that’s it’s very admirable. 31:21.02Burney Jenningshi Thank you. Been a pleasure. 31:25.08vigorbrandingCool. All right. i think 

Ben started Tocabe with his friend and business partner Matthew Chandra. Opened in 2008, Tocabe is one of the only restaurants in Denver specializing in Native and Indigenous cuisine and one of only a handful in the United States. Ben is a tribal member of the Osage Nation of northeast Oklahoma. Ben also created Seed To Soul, which creates prepared authentic Native American meals for people in need in Native American communities. In Ben's words, Seed to Soul helps to create and develop a Native food system. Tocabe was featured on Diners, Drive-In's & Dives in 2011. Before the appearance, Tocabe was struggling. After the appearance, business “skyrocketed.” Ben admits that operating a Native restaurant isn't as easy as a burger or pizza restaurant because the food doesn't have the built in knowledge and familiarity that other restaurants might have.  QUOTES “Whenever someone asks me ‘What is Native American cuisine?', I don't know. And that's the whole point. We're all so different depending on the region and tribal community.” (Ben) “I always like to say we're the oldest cultures on the continent but in many ways we have the youngest cuisine because it's not clearly defined.” (Ben) “When we started we said we wanted to create the trend for what a Native restaurant is in America.” (Ben) “We started with Osage-specific recipes, but now we're ingredient-driven. We source from native food producers from all over the country.” (Ben) On Tocabe's appearance on Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives: “Guy (Fieri) was amazing. He was so fun, he was engaging. He enjoyed being there. You can tell he was into it.” (Ben) “For us to be a Native restaurant, we need to support the Native food system. And since it's so spread out, we can't always be locally made. So we say ‘Native first, local second.'” (Ben) “We source wild rice from the Great Lakes, blueberries from Maine, huckleberries from Washington state, olive oil from California, beans from the southwest. You name it, we source from all over.” (Ben) TRANSCRIPT “Whenever someone asks me ‘What is Native American cuisine?', I don't know. And that's the whole point. We're all so different depending on the region and tribal community.” (Ben)  “I always like to say we're the oldest cultures on the continent but in many ways we have the youngest cuisine because it's not clearly defined.” (Ben)  “When we started we said we wanted to create the trend for what a Native restaurant is in America.” (Ben)  “We started with Osage-specific recipes, but now we're ingredient-driven. We source from native food producers from all over the country.” (Ben)  On Tocabe's appearance on Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives: “Guy (Fieri) was amazing. He was so fun, he was engaging. He enjoyed being there. You can tell he was into it.” (Ben)  “For us to be a Native restaurant, we need to support the Native food system. And since it's so spread out, we can't always be locally made. So we say ‘Native first, local second.'” (Ben)  “We source wild rice from the Great Lakes, blueberries from Maine, huckleberries from Washington state, olive oil from California, beans from the southwest. You name it, we source from all over.” (Ben) 

Roboburger is billed as the “World's First Burger Chef In a Vending Format.” RoboBurger condenses the average kitchen by 99% into just 12 square feet, including refrigeration, heating, ventilation, prep line and cleaning. Burgers are automatically grilled and assembled in under 4 minutes. Roboburger RoboBurger was invented by Audley Wilson, a data scientist; Dan Braido, a Rutgers PhD grad; and Andy Siegel, a serial entrepreneur. Audley and his team have been working on Roboburger for about five years but Audley's passion for robotics goes all the way back to his childhood. Audley has been passionate about robotics and automation from a young age, and one of his teenage years robotics prototypes got him a scholarship at Carnegie Mellon. RoboBurger was in beta phase up until SharkTank. They launched their first beta location in a dive bar in Jersey City in 2020. They launched an NSF-certified model in 2022. The units now – generation 5 – are UL certified and are launching in locations from Indiana to Missouri. Future locations for Roboburger machines include colleges, airports and rest stops. Friends encouraged Audley to take his idea to Shark Tank since the earliest days of the Roboburger process. Shark Tank producers noticed the media coverage about RoboBurger and reached out to Audley in 2022 with an offer to appear. It wasn't until 2023 that Audley and his team decided the machine was reach for a prime time appearance.  QUOTES “No one ever went bankrupt trying to feed America burgers.” (Michael) “One of the biggest challenges (with Roboburger) has been the health requirements. Getting that NSF certification was a gargantuan challenge and getting our UL certification on top of that was even more.” (Audley)“We clean the griddle after every burger. We do heat sanitization every four hours. We've actually got our cleaning process certified by a third party.” (Audley) “(One of our goals is to) make food service accessible for vending.” (Audley)“People are starting to shift to a higher convenience lifestyle. How can I get what I want, when I want it, wherever I am.” (Audley) “When you get to Shark Tank, it's just one go. You're standing on a carpet. It's live. There are no cuts.” (Audley)“Shark Tank was a really interesting experience. I've done thousands of pitches over the years, but I've never had one (like Shark Tank).” (Audley) “We're very happy with the (Shark Tank) deal. Those are exactly the sharks that we wanted to make a deal with.” (Audley) TRANSCRIPT 00:01.57vigorbrandingHello there to Fork Tales. Today’s guest is Audley Wilson. Now, typically, I have chefs on. Typically, I have restaurateurs. But today, we have a robotics expert. ah He is a burger expert and founder and CEO of Robo Burger, the world’s first burger chef in a vending machine. That’s right. He makes burgers within a vending machine. He also recently appeared on Shark Tank to pitch his idea to the investors. Audley, thank you so much for joining us today. 00:31.42Audley WilsonWell, thank you so much, Michael, for having me on. I’m excited to be speaking with you. 00:36.82vigorbrandingAwesome. wow You and I got to meet, I think it was a little over a year ago and I i saw you then again in LA and I got to actually not only see you, but I also saw the Robo Burger. So that’s super cool and I i got to test it. I got to have the burger and it was ah it was impressive. So let’s start with some background about rogo Robo Burger. I’m sorry, it’s like a tongue twister. ah Tell us about Robo Burger and how it all got started. 00:58.35Audley Wilsonhey five times but So, oh man. Well, so it’s a long story. I’ve been working on a robo burger for in this current incarnation for about five years, but I’ve been working on food robotics over the course of my, for my entire life and burger machines for about 20. So, uh, you know, my first burger machine, my first food machine, uh, got me into Carnegie Mellon. Uh, and like, you know, then it was really focused on. residential kitchens, right? So like, how can you make an entire kitchen, fully automated? 01:31.33Audley WilsonAnd yeah so, you know, talk about really ahead of your time. um So like, that was, that was my first machine, and it was really, could do a variety of different meals. 01:34.72vigorbrandingRight. 01:40.23Audley WilsonBut really all it can make well is rice and chicken. when Yeah, it’s ah but first i college kid that’s great. 01:44.40vigorbrandingSo, but was that something that you did before? yeah Was that something you did before school? Like before you got into the into Carnegie Mellon or was it a contest or talk about that? 01:51.97Audley WilsonYeah. Yes, I was working on this since ah when I was in high school. 01:56.90vigorbrandingThat’s crazy. 01:57.18Audley WilsonSo when I was in high school, I was there, so you know, constantly working on this crazy machine because I was like, you know, I got to feed myself in college. So why not just have a crazy machine that could do it? um And but really, one of the challenges was it was trying to do so many things in one machine. So it was a super, super, super complicated. um But yeah, so that was that was what I was working on in high school. um I’ve been making food, ever since I learned, I self taught electrical computer engineer. So when I was like eight years old, my dad started teaching me how to do electronics. And then I was like, this is this is awesome. Took his college textbooks and started going through those. And I was like, you know so I taught myself electronics. And then I was like, well, if I could make motors move and lights turn on, why not make a food machine? I was watching the Jetsons a lot back then. 02:44.85vigorbrandingUh huh. 02:44.83Audley Wilsonum you know, because it was on constant replay back in the 80s. So was it was like, okay, you know, like, I can make, I can make, you know, Rosie goes up to a machine and she enters what she wants. And then she, you know, outcomes as like, you know, ham on a bone or whatever. ah yeah and I wanted to make that machine. 03:03.40vigorbrandingThat is, that’s crazy. That’s it’s wild. And you know I gotta to say, you’re probably the only human being on earth that can say, I’ve been working on a burger machine for 20 years. 03:13.02Audley WilsonYes, taking a little longer than I expected. 03:13.63vigorbrandingah but But you’re dedicated your life to the burger machine. I think that’s awesome. I mean, you know. 03:19.72Audley WilsonOh, yes, definitely. um you know In college, yeah when I got into CMU, one of the reasons I got in was actually because of that that’s residential food machine. 03:29.71vigorbrandingSure. 03:29.84Audley Wilsonum and In college, own they CMU was awesome and know they they were able to fund some of my development. I was working on the machine throughout the time period. My junior year, i was I was an entrepreneurship major there, so my junior year I had to start a business. So, that’s when I started my first business, which was actually a restaurant. um So, because I was like, okay, my robot isn’t there yet. um If I actually want to dedicate my entire life to food robotics, I should probably learn how to to cook and how a restaurant works. um So, I started a restaurant, you know, because there’s no simpler way to do that. um 04:03.50Audley Wilsonyeah But yeah that’s really yeah everyone’s like, that’s a horrible idea. Don’t do this. This this industry is hard. And you know I definitely learned that that’s the case. 04:13.68vigorbrandingyeah 04:13.75Audley Wilsonum and But to what it was excellent about that time period is they it ah enabled me to really understand what the problem was that I wanted to solve. um you know the labor What I was facing was massive labor problems, um you know tons of really really long hours that I needed to cover, a lack of consistency between my chefs on the weekend or the the late night shifts, um you know and also the size of the kitchen. right My kitchen took up a large space, like you know how can I make this all smaller? 04:39.33vigorbrandingRight. 04:43.44Audley WilsonAnd then like you data. There was like no data in my kitchen. I got data really by putting it in at the end of the day, so I didn’t really have that much data back in 2004. So you know that’s that’s what i wanted to solve like how could i just make this that and it like hit me like one night when i was uh when i was closed down my restaurants like wow what if i just like made this a lot simpler to go back to an automated food restaurant that that ma machine i was working on upset focus on commercial. One thing, just the burger, because it’s yeah like’s it’s pretty standardized for the most part. 05:16.00vigorbrandingHmm. 05:19.52Audley Wilsonright you know Top bun, bottom bun, patty, and anything else that goes on in the in the middle there. 05:22.28vigorbrandingOkay. 05:26.00Audley Wilsonso like you know It’s consistent. um so yeah I could do one thing over and over and over and over again. and At that time period, I really wanted to like automate the whole back end of a Burger King. but 05:36.58vigorbrandingYeah, that’s it’s fascinating. So when you did your restaurant i mean and obviously you summed up everybody’s issues in the restaurant business. I mean, quality of food, consistency, the the labor shortage and just the cost of labor. I mean, you know, ah you’re you’re talking to everybody here and that makes ah that makes a ton ton of sense. um but But just real quick on your on your restaurant, like when you started a restaurant, it was at one location, was it a QSR, was it a focused, it it was it one of those where you focused on just one sort of type of food or one one sort of like like li burgers or a hot dogs or anything like that. Talk talk about that a little bit. 06:11.34Audley WilsonYeah, so I was writing a trend back in 2004. I’m not sure if you remember hookah lounges. They had just came through New York City. 06:17.58vigorbrandingSure. 06:19.21Audley WilsonSo one of my friends dragged me to a hookah bar in LES, you know, checked out the scene. I was like, this is actually pretty cool. This is an experience I haven’t had before. And, you know, it didn’t exist in Pennsylvania at the time. So, you know, I was the first hookah bar in Pittsburgh. um yeah so I opened opened the the concept there at first it was a hookah bar mediterranean tea and drinks and then i then i built out the kitchen myself and with my friends and my fraternity brothers built out the kitchen so went through the whole ah you know process of getting all the like the licenses and everything there so that’s what i learned about the permitting processes which. 06:59.52vigorbrandingUh-huh. 06:59.86Audley Wilsona big part of our life now. And yeah and then then after that, we turned it into a whole music scene. We had like lines around the block. It was it was pretty cool. um and It was Mediterranean food was the ultimate focus. um Because it was so hard to build out the kitchen, we ended up going all electric um you know using these huge pizza ovens to heat up legs of lamb because we couldn’t do a stack. And that’s really one of those things I think my machine really solves for. you know it’s a vetless solution So you can put it anywhere, just plug it in literally, cleans the air, filters it. 07:27.98vigorbrandingYeah. 07:35.57Audley WilsonBecause they told me it was like 100,000 to put in my vent, ah just just the vent solution. 07:37.84vigorbrandingOh, sure. 07:40.66Audley WilsonI was like, really, this is crazy. um So I unfortunately limited the options that I had in my my establishment. 07:48.17vigorbrandingYeah, and you are obviously a serial entrepreneur. I feel like you you can see something and you can, you know, and it’s not a problem. It’s an opportunity, right? And everyone says that, but I think it’s obvious you’ve executed on that all across the board from evolving your hookah thing to the to the robotics. to If I can do electronics, why can’t I make burgers with it? too I’ve got to eat. So therefore, I should make something that can feed me. It’s pretty crazy. That’s that’s awesome. And you know it just goes to show, I guess, that that that drive and positivity and and the and the willing to have your eyes wide open and and execute. 08:20.60vigorbrandingThat’s the key, execute. 08:21.19Audley WilsonAll 08:21.52vigorbrandingAnd I think it’s awesome. So I get to talk to a lot of entrepreneurs, but I’m really i’m really impressed by all that you’ve done. 08:26.79Audley Wilsonright. 08:27.36vigorbrandingIt’s really, really super cool. So, okay, we’ll get to Robo Burger here. 08:29.93Audley Wilsongo 08:31.40vigorbrandingNow, why why not pizzas? why and but eat Why not hot dogs? Why not chicken wings? Why why burgers? 08:37.09Audley WilsonYeah, again, it’s the standardization. um One of the hardest parts of food machines and in general, when I’ve been building them, has been dispensing the ingredients, right? So, you know, if you have like too wide a variety of ingredients, then it could be like challenging. um But really, I love burgers. ah Back in the day, I was eating probably about five burgers a week. um yeah know So it’s pretty ah pretty high pretty high percentage of burgers. 09:07.61Audley Wilsonum and you know And I think they’re really the design of it. I love the sandwich. yeah It’s like ah the perfect meal on the go. 09:14.05vigorbrandingYep. 09:16.30Audley WilsonYou know you could grab it. You could take it in your car. I think it’s just a very convenient form of of heating yeah what I think it’s a little more sloppy. 09:25.77vigorbrandingWell, look, yeah and no one’s ever going to, yeah no, no, one I don’t think anyone ever go really bankrupt trying to feed America burgers. 09:28.80Audley Wilsonyeah 09:33.69vigorbrandingCause I mean, that’s definitely, uh, it’s definitely on the forefront of, uh, I think America’s palette for, uh, uh, for a lot of reasons, but. 09:34.35Audley WilsonYeah. 09:40.37vigorbrandingSo, but like, okay, vending machines, they’ve been around for a while as far as food, hot food, but obviously pre-made and, you you know, soggy thing, not necessarily good for sure. 09:49.14Audley Wilsonyeah 09:50.50vigorbrandingah You know, what what were some of the challenges with putting the process into a 12 square foot box? And talk about the process of your burger because it is not just you know, ah just reheated. It’s not just a microwaved pre-made sandwich. I think maybe that might be even a drawback. Maybe people might think, well, geez, this is probably what this is, but it’s not. It’s it’s it’s made fresh. 10:10.34Audley WilsonYeah. 10:11.16vigorbrandingSo can you talk a little bit about that and then some of the um some of the challenges? 10:15.55Audley WilsonYeah, throughout this journey, I’ve been blessed to have two really good co-founders, Andy Siegel and Dan Bredo. Dan was my CTO. hes Me and him went to Carnegie Mellon together. So he’s really been faced with having to conquer these insane hurdles of really taking an entire commercial kitchen and putting it into 12 square feet um and getting and NSF and UL certified as such. 10:30.03vigorbrandingThanks. 10:40.26Audley Wilsonum So you know one of the biggest challenges, again, was ah you know the, you know, all the health requirements, right? You know, getting that and NSF certification was a gargantuan challenge, and then getting our UL certification on top of that was even more. You know, you always hope that there is some governing body that is ultimately saying, is this good is this safe and am I going to die by eating this? what these these um These groups are there for, um you know, their standards really have pushed us to the next level in making a much better, safer um thing, but ultimately the the ah challenges are or great. um So some of them, you know was you know, most vending machines start with food in a pre-packaged container and they stay there the entire time. 11:30.83vigorbrandingMmhmm. 11:31.17Audley Wilsonhours actually starts in a package. We open the package, dispense the part, the components from there, close those packages, then cook and assemble everything and then put it into a second, into a final packaging. So, you know, due to that, the food touches, you know, food touching zones for all the chefs out there, you know, obviously everything needs to be cleaned. You know, so how do you actually cook? So we, like I guess you could go through the cooking process for ah listeners who don’t know how this machine works. So Roamer Burger, when you after you’ve done ordering what you like on the screen and paying, it’s going to then take a frozen patty out of the freezer, put it onto a griddle, and cook it on both sides. 12:14.66Audley WilsonWhile that’s cooking, it’s going to dispense buns from the toaster into the toasters from our sealed dispensers, and and then start toasting those. Once the buns are toasted, it’s then going to grab a box, put the buns into the box, add the chosen condiments, get the patty, and then get grab go over and get cheese a layer of cheese on top, and then go out to the user and where the user will see it come out, and then the clamshell box will close. So that’s ultimately the process. That’s our our patented procedure for making a burger. 12:46.19Audley Wilsonum We have five patents there. So those are like we have five different inventions. um First one is the oven system, the way we actually cook it on a griddle. 12:50.62vigorbrandingMm hmm. 12:55.89Audley Wilsonyeah So that like yeah we’re actually cooking that. Making it really you know, you really get to the char we really you know, it’s the same way you would want a patty cooked the toasters or another patent that we had because ultimately we had to toast the but toast the bun and also perfectly dispense it our first burger machine back in 2019 that we put that we we were we put live in Andy’s Bar in Jersey City it would flip the buns half the time like ah 13:26.69Audley Wilsonah Every time, just with the buns half the time. It was, it was, it was the worst. We called it a lucky burger because they just kept it. But it was like, we were always lucky. It was horribly unlucky with the the buns. 13:36.98vigorbrandingMm 13:38.74Audley WilsonIt’s, you know, but that’s the thing, you know, these simple, these products are very soft and delicate, you know, the bun. 13:43.78vigorbrandinghmm. 13:44.11Audley Wilsonum And you actually have to get it there right side up every single time. um And, you know, every, everyone’s, everyone is used to having a burger but prepared one way. So, you know, if it’s ever done wrong. um The next, next patent we had was our dispenser, which is actually what holds all these, uh, these a bench, all these, uh, the buns and the top on the bottom button and the paddy sit in different dispensers. So that was a real challenge because, you know, the buns are soft. Um, sometimes, sometimes things can stick. How do you actually you know dispense it every single time? Um, so that was a huge challenge for us. 14:20.49vigorbrandingMmhmm. 14:20.83Audley Wilsonevery Every step was just huge hurdles, but my team must have a really good team, people really solving these problems. it The list just keeps going, but you now now everything is really down to the hardware mechanisms have been perfected, and now we’re getting to do some really, really cool things on the software side, which is really exciting. 14:42.88vigorbrandingYeah, very cool. And it is amazing because, excuse me, the the the the burger is grilled and it’s not just nothing. And that’s the thing, I guess I wonder that that you have to not not overcome, but I think people would just assume because why wouldn’t you that, oh, it’s pre-made, pre-packaged, it’s in a microwave and that’s not it at all. And in fact, I’ll say, I’ll give some plugs here. You know, um Quench, our agency does CPG, food and beverage. ah We started in Pennsylvania and your buns are Martin’s potato rolls, which are very famous here in Pennsylvania, and they are making their rounds around the country, and it’s a really quality product. And and I think Heinz Ketchup is what you’re using too, another Pennsylvania brand. 15:19.59Audley WilsonYeah, so yeah, yeah we love Heinz. The machine that you know has these Heinz bagged products in it. So pretty much all of our condiments start in the Heinz bags and then they get stayed sealed throughout the entire system and that’s like one of those big tests that they also make sure. 15:37.29vigorbrandingYeah. 15:37.29Audley WilsonHow do you actually clean these lines? Have you guys ever had a beer line in your in your restaurant? right Lines are the worst. 15:41.48vigorbrandingYep. Yep. 15:42.87Audley WilsonYou got to clean them. 15:44.02vigorbrandingThat’s right. 15:44.03Audley WilsonSo like you know the machine also has like automatic processes to clean our condiment lines and systems like that because Every line is a problem um if you don’t have an actual cleaning solution. 15:54.10vigorbrandingYep. 15:54.22Audley WilsonSo a machine will automatically do soap, sanitizer, hot water. It has built-in hot water heater. Pretty much, we have as many many things that you could possibly fit into 12 square feet. um and you you know Everything that you would expect to be in your in a restaurant is inside of this. 16:12.20vigorbrandingYeah, and candidly, there’s there’s there’s there’s ah I mean, you guys are cleaning after every burger. So we hear about health inspectors. We hear about, oh, don’t go back in their kitchen, you know about restaurants. Oh, boy, you don’t want to see what it looks like back there. But you guys are actually cleaning after every every burger. and and and and you know and and So the the sanitation part of this thing, the the health part of this thing is like first, foremost, and and extremely well thought out. 16:27.01Audley WilsonYeah. 16:37.05vigorbrandingIs that correct? 16:38.22Audley WilsonYeah. 100%. You know, that’s been, uh, from the very beginning, it was like, you have to get the and NSF certification. Otherwise we can’t do this. We have to be able to really scale this across the country. Um, you know, in the and NSF, you know, that blue sticker that says and NSF, that was our goal from the beginning. 16:51.00vigorbrandingMm hmm. Mm hmm. 16:53.73Audley Wilsonum So, you know, like we clean off clean the the griddle after every burger, we do heat sanitization after every four hours, we do every day, it does a the daily soap, sanitizer, hot water treatment, you know, the three bin sink that you, you know, obviously required by the health department, um we do that process. And we’ve actually gotten our cleaning cleaning procedure certified by a third party. um like, you know, after you months and months and months of usage and doing the cleaning process, you know, in like, indetectable levels of microbes. So, you know, we did the whole culture growth and everything. My, Dan, he’s a PhD, so it’s been ah insane to have him on, you know, fighting this battle because he’s 17:37.98Audley Wilsonyeah He’s really been leading the charge. We’re actually going to the American ah the Association of Food and Drug Officers’ Apto conference next week to present the machine to all of the health the big health officials around the country because you know we’re we’re we’re not we’re we’re not shy now to show what we’ve done because it’s it’s been challenging to get here, um but it’s pretty cool. 17:54.22vigorbrandingVery cool. 18:01.29vigorbrandingYeah, ah yeah you should be you should be incredibly proud. and You know, you always are smiling and you’re always laughing. and I can only imagine how many obstacles you faced. And so you you’re you have the perfect attitude as ah as an entrepreneur because you’re you’re willing to smile and figure out the next thing. And that’s that’s ah that’s a gift. It sounds obvious, but boy, it’s so hard. And yeah, yeah. 18:21.34Audley WilsonOh man, yeah, those was hard days where it’s just like, you’re just like, you go home, you’re like, I don’t even know how we’re gonna, I don’t know how to put a smile on the face. 18:28.18vigorbrandingYeah. 18:29.13Audley Wilsonit And then you go in the next day, it’s like, gotta kick, gotta kick ass today to enter. 18:32.63vigorbrandingYeah, that’s right. That’s right. That’s absolutely right. All right. So you opened up your first row robo burger pop up in Jersey city in 2022. 18:36.44Audley WilsonYeah. 18:39.98Audley Wilsonyeah 18:41.01vigorbrandingHow many locations you have now and then where do you see your machines being successful? 18:45.62Audley WilsonYeah, so it’s been we’ve been in the beta period up until Shark Tank. so That was actually when we had pulled our our machines for all of our beta machines from the market. so First, we and we actually launched our first um unit to the market in 2020. That was in that that dive bar in Jersey City. 19:00.78vigorbrandingOkay. 19:03.87Audley WilsonThen in 2022, we introduced our and NSF certified Mark II generation Two model to the mall and then we then after that we went to a pilot flying J and a couple other locate in the college in Queens and a couple of the locations um to you know, just perfecting the technology getting up to the next levels and then now we just got our and NSF or UL certification for our generation five units and those are the units now we’re rolling into the market. 19:28.50vigorbrandingMm hmm. Hmm. 19:33.91Audley WilsonSo we have ah we we just launched our first units like a month ago into the market in ah in a business in a business and a business location with Pfizer. And now we’re and we’re launching with Penn Entertainment some casinos. in Pennsylvania they’re who are actually launching in their location in Indiana and then in their location in St. 19:51.77vigorbrandingMmhmm. 19:57.67Audley WilsonLouis this month and then next month we’re launching with another location for that same business and then machines after machines so going into a bunch of airports in terms of where we see the best bits you know convenience It’s really like where we are the the kitchen for convenience, both unattended retail as well as the traditional convenience store. So we we really are we really are looking forward to working with partners there. Bending, obviously. Bending partners, who we’re now able to 20:32.03Audley WilsonMake food service accessible for vending, which has really never been the case before. Food service previously was always prepared food, and distribution just dropping it onto to a cold case. and Now we’re talking about real food service, you know being able to offer their customers a higher so higher level solution. airports. We’re going into Orlando, MCO, and we’re going to be going into a few other airports throughout the country when our partners in the travel hospitality industry. And, you know, we’re excited to go into a few colleges. 21:05.70vigorbrandingSure. 21:06.61Audley WilsonHopefully our album amount is over the course of the next few months. So I’m just really excited to start getting this technology out there. 21:11.14vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Well, it makes sense. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense. You know, it’s kind of interesting because, ah you know, candidly, I was watching the your episode of Shark Tank, and we can talk about that. yeah But when I was watching, I was watching with my wife, and my you know, my wife’s smart. 21:23.90Audley Wilsonyou 21:26.40vigorbrandingShe’s like asking questions like, yeah do you really need um a vending machine that serves burgers? She was impressed by how fresh it was and all that. and i said to her i said well but like Someone did the first vending machine for a soda. and At the time, you could get a soda at your house, you get a soda at a grocery store, you get a soda probably at a convenience store. so There’s plenty of places to get a soda. Why did you need to build a refrigerator, put it somewhere? and and When you think about it from that perspective, i mean it probably seemed a bit outlandish and maybe almost unnecessary But yet, let’s face it, ah soda vending machines are huge. 21:58.43vigorbrandingSo why not burgers? why i mean it makes total When you look at it from that perspective, I think it makes total sense. 22:00.66Audley WilsonIndeed. 22:02.65vigorbrandingBecause again, to your point, like colleges or airports, there’s people that want to have a decent, ah you know a good quality food experience, and places aren’t open. And especially now after COVID, there’s so many issues with employees and you know cutting down hours and and and all of that that you you’re you’re actually answering. You’ve been working on the solution to a problem that probably has been exacerbated over the last couple of years. you know it’s a 22:27.50Audley WilsonYeah. it It’s interesting as well. 22:28.14vigorbrandingso 22:29.57Audley WilsonThink back to like even like 2000, like there were so many more cafeterias, like, you know, in every business that was open, c catering to the office. 22:34.22vigorbrandingRight. 22:38.83Audley WilsonObviously there’s more work from home now, which has sort of caused a sort of shift, right? 22:40.66vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 22:43.75Audley WilsonSo people have gone from like these, the cafeterias and people sort of moving back into this unattended retail. 22:46.82vigorbrandingRight. 22:50.78Audley WilsonVending solution. Um, you know, so going back to the world where the the automat was a solution, right? You know, so if you think back about that back in the 50s, there was the automat Um, so I think people are really starting to shift back to this high high convenience, right? How can I get what I want when I want it wherever I am? um And at the same time businesses need to handle for the fact that there’s ah you know, there’s less labor out there um at ah significantly higher rates than it was yeah I’m thinking back to minimum wage when I had my restaurant in 2004 was six dollars six dollars an hour 23:22.47vigorbrandingYeah, sure. Yeah. 23:25.27Audley WilsonI’m like, wow, I can’t even imagine. so you like having like you know I had 20 people. like I can’t imagine having that many people in a tiny small business with today’s minimal wages and increased food costs. 23:33.43vigorbrandingRight. Right. 23:41.09Audley Wilsonso you know like the The challenges are getting are bigger for the operator than ever. But yeah know by by going to the small unattended footprint, people are able to you know the distribute their costs over multiple locations, and make more money, um and and find new opportunities for growth. 24:01.13vigorbrandingThat’s great. so i mean we We talked briefly about the Shark Tank episode. I think people are really interested because it is ah as an entrepreneur, i mean i like I said, it’s one of those things where I’d sit there and and and focus on. I couldn’t watch it late at night because my brain would be spinning. you know i I loved it trying to figure out the angles. Would I do the deal? If I was selling the idea, how would I sell it? you know Looking at it from a marketing perspective, looking at it from a business perspective, it’s just you know my head’s going to explode. so Talk about that. like did you Did you pitch your idea? Did they come to you? What was the experience like? Did they do run-throughs? Talk a little bit about that and how the whole thing came together. i mean we see you know What do we see? Like 15 minutes, 12 minutes of any segment. um and you know but But what all is in there? i mean how How does that all work? I’d love to hear hear sort of like the behind the scenes a little bit. 24:51.43Audley WilsonYeah. Yeah, I remember when I started working on my burger machine back in the day, you know, Shark Tank had came out and they were everyone was like, you should go on Shark Tank with this idea. So it was crazy to to actually go on Shark Tank eventually. The way it all came about was through, I guess, you know media When we launched our first mission our first Gen 2 machine in the mall here in Jersey, we got 4.4 billion impressions, like 43 million in earned media value. 25:22.69Audley WilsonSo like we just got so much media. 25:23.32vigorbrandingMm hmm. 25:24.93Audley Wilsonum like I remember my wife ah my wife’s mom from Moldova saw us on TV and filmed it and sent us the video in Moldova. 25:30.52vigorbrandingMm 25:35.28Audley WilsonI was like, wow, this is… And I think that shows that like you know people have a lot of interest in this type of technology, and burgers specifically burgers are completely automated in a vending format. 25:39.48vigorbrandinghmm. 25:48.13Audley Wilsonum So that’s when we got the eye of the, I think, Shark Tank team. 25:54.63vigorbrandingGotcha. 25:54.68Audley Wilsonum So at that point they you know they reached out to me back back in 2022. I didn’t even respond because I’m like, there is no way I’m going on Shark Tank with this machine. It is way too early. I need to itate iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate, iterate. And then we did probably about 100 more iterations after that. 26:14.76vigorbrandingwow 26:14.72Audley WilsonAnd then you know a year later, i yeah like i get ah i get a response I get the same email again. It’s like, hey. I was like, wait, hold on. Did I respond the last time? And that’s what I realized. I didn’t respond like, wow, I’m a horrible person. ah hu So like, you know, it’s like, all right, you know what? I think we’re ready. So we responded, then then that pretty much got us into the process. And then we we had to do our practice pitches where, um you know, the producer’s feedback to me was usually around, you know, like every everyone did great, upset oddly, more energy. 26:49.93Audley Wilsonbut So my other two partners, they’re like very photogenic. So they like yeah they they really love being on camera. um but So yeah that was that was ah that was a fun process of you know just trying to you try to actually get nailed the pitch, because you get to practice, or they’re practicing it amongst ourselves um with some of our friends, trying to like, you this is you know this is what we’re, or what do you think about this these lines guys? 26:56.32vigorbrandingah 27:14.59vigorbrandingMm hmm. 27:15.64Audley Wilsonum And then, Yeah, but yeah we never when you actually get to Shark Tank, it’s just one go. it’s You get on stage, and you know that youre you’re there that you’re standing on this carpet, and the next, to you know the door’s open, and and it’s it’s live. it’s a the never no no No cuts. 27:36.12vigorbrandingGot it. 27:36.28Audley Wilsonyou and there you know they The team there is amazing. There’s so many cameras trained on your every move. um they’re you know they’re They’re amazing. um Yeah, it but it was ah it was really it was a really interesting experience. It was, you know, I’ve done thousands of pitches, you know, over the over the years, you know, thousands, but this one was, you know, I never had one. It was, you know, quite the same film where, you know, it’s going to be viewed by everyone and with everyone’s ah full ego and energy and enthusiasm coming for television, you know, in terms of the the judges on the other side. So, you know, it was quite an experience. 28:13.83vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. so So I read somewhere that that entrepreneurs who appear in the show required to meet with a show psychologist afterwards, just to make sure you weren’t beat up too bad or tortured by the experience. Was that true? Did you guys talk to somebody afterwards? 28:24.62Audley WilsonThat’s 100% true. That’s 100% true. I know, like, everywhere they told us before, it was like, ah that’s weird. And then author words, it was like, it actually was it was nice to talk. Like, we were all very over the moon and excited. So it was nice to, you know, they they really, you know, they’ve been doing it for 15 years. 28:40.86vigorbrandingYeah. 28:45.31Audley WilsonThey know what they’re doing. It’s an impressive of organization. 28:46.60vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. I mean, I’m sure. Hey, and you guys got a deal. Congratulations. I’m sure some people are over there and they’re in the fetal position crying in the corner. You know, like I spent most of my life, bill you know, dedicated to this business and they’re telling me it’s a terrible idea. So, ah but but yeah. 28:58.91Audley WilsonYou know, at one point, and you you know you you saw the episode, at one point in the middle of the episode, it’s like, wow, that’s good to be me. 29:05.63vigorbrandingYeah. Well, my wife said, Oh, they’re not going to get a deal. I’m like, well, just watch. Let’s see. You know? And, uh, you’re, by the way, you said about not being photogenic. I disagree with you, but your, your, your partner, the CMO was hilarious because he got a lot of closeups because in the beginning they were saying some stuff that wasn’t so nice and his eyes are just like, you look like a deer in the headlights. It was awesome. So he made he made for good TV. That’s for sure. That guy’s he’s a character you can tell. 29:26.93Audley Wilsonyeah 29:28.22vigorbrandingUh, but. 29:28.42Audley Wilsonyeah he’s so He’s definitely a character. He used to be on ah TV commercials back in the day, like Mr. Bubbles and all this other stuff. And and he’s ah you know he he’s is ah quite a character. 29:41.26vigorbrandingYeah. And so you you you got in with Mr. Wonderful, Kevin O’Leary and Michael Rubin. So you got a $1.5 million dollars loan at 9%. And are you are you happy with the deal? Have you guys ah gotten any traction? 29:52.16Audley WilsonYeah, we’re very happy with the deal. These are exactly the sharks that we wanted to work with. 29:54.39vigorbrandingOK. 29:57.73Audley Wilsonyeah We wanted to we wanted to know work with Mr. Wonderful. We wanted to have him ah up on stage and interacting with the machine. ah And that that was before we found out who the guest shark was going to be. 30:08.71vigorbrandingMm-hmm. 30:08.88Audley WilsonAnd it was Michael Rubin. And we’re like, wow, Michael Rubin. That’s really cool. So like you know we ended up getting exactly the sharks that we wanted to do a deal with. two sharks and especially after coming to a point where we thought we were going to have like zero sharks at one point. 30:23.43vigorbrandingYeah, yeah. 30:23.51Audley Wilsonis So you it was it was ah was it it was just a it was ah it was a lot of fun um after it was done. It was the most intense 34 hours and but of my life, the most intense 34 hour trip to LA ever. 30:41.85vigorbrandingYeah, I’ll bet. 30:41.91Audley Wilsonum It was just nonstop. 30:44.97vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Okay. So let’s talk back to back on the rubber burger. Can you share some details about what you’re, you’re cooking up for the future? I mean, like, you know, some people want bacon on their burgers. You know, we know the lettuce and tomato thing and fresh vegetable. That can be obviously comp an issue. Can you talk a little bit about maybe some of the decisions you made to do things, not to do things and some potential ideas of what you might do next? 31:00.46Audley WilsonYeah, 31:04.12Audley Wilsonyeah so so let let’s talk about lettuce and tomatoes first. The reason we didn’t do do lettuce and tomatoes first is Dan would always say is because of E. 31:08.15vigorbrandingYeah. 31:13.30Audley Wilsoncoli and some of the challenges there and being able to detect it. 31:13.77vigorbrandingHmm. 31:16.27Audley Wilsonum It actually is just another hurdle for the operator and our goal is trying to reduce hurdles for the operator to be able to deliver road burger to their end consumer. So yeah that’s why we’re not offering it our first first iterations of these units. um In time, we’d like to operate. But actually, the operators that we’ve been working with haven’t been asking for that so much. But we’d love to be able to do it so that we can do more brand partnerships with you some of the bigger fast food companies that are out there that do use lettuce and tomatoes. In terms of bacon, we would like to do bacon. 31:52.30Audley WilsonWe’re not sure how or when. We definitely want to add it to our lineup. In terms of coming soon, what we’re working towards, we want to be able to make the unit smaller. We want to have a smaller unit that we can even reduce the cost to the operator even more. 32:05.61vigorbrandingMm 32:10.34Audley WilsonWe want to be able to make a bigger unit that can really be able to do really high volume. you If you think about replacing the back end of burger production for any of the big fast food companies. and So we want to be able to go about bigger and smaller while constantly just trying to reduce the cost to the operators that way. Because at the end of the day, like yeah I’m an operator, Andy’s andy’s had ah three restaurants as well. 32:32.35vigorbrandinghmm. 32:33.68Audley Wilsonum you like We know how how annoying it is to actually take a portion of your profits out of your pocket to fund X and Y expenses. So we just want to make it lower and lower and lower so that way they can make more money. 32:46.69vigorbrandingthat’s fantastic 32:47.31Audley WilsonThat’s really where our focuses are on. Um, and, uh, you know, faster, you know, it’s currently takes us about four minutes to make a burger. We like to be able to get more throughput, you know, cause at the end of the day, you know, it’s all, if you’re there, which is multiple people right now, we can, we can spread, if there are multiple machines, we can spread orders across a few, the cluster of units, but you know, we don’t want to be ah that same unit to be able to make burgers two times as fast. 33:11.36vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. And if I remember correctly, your, your machine currently can hold like 50 burgers, right? Like so, uh, it stacks. 33:17.53Audley WilsonYeah. 33:18.40vigorbrandingYeah. So, and I mean, depend obviously depending on how many you sell that someone’s got to come in and then service the machine and, and restock it and everything else. 33:25.40Audley WilsonExactly. 33:26.22vigorbrandingSo yeah, that makes total sense. 33:27.31Audley WilsonExactly. 33:27.63vigorbrandingSo so 33:28.47Audley WilsonSo in some of the airport applications in the busy or high volume, then yeah what we’re they’re doing is putting multiple machines, two, three, four machines in like clusters and then multiple clusters throughout the locations. So that’s ah really what we’re building towards that world where you have food anywhere, anytime. Because we’ve all been to that airport where yeah um the your flight gets delayed. 33:48.16vigorbrandingYeah. 33:50.29Audley WilsonYou’re there till like 2 AM. m yeah The bar closed down at 8 PM. 33:52.45vigorbrandingYeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no doubt. 33:56.34Audley Wilsonjust there waiting 33:57.88vigorbrandingYep, I totally, totally. 33:58.23Audley Wilsonyeah so well 33:59.76vigorbrandingI’ve experienced it pretty much every week. you know I’m on a plane every week and ah you know every other week umm I’m in a situation similar to that. like When do I eat? When should I get something? What can I get? What’s the quality I can get? you know And then with delays and layovers and canceled flights, you never know when where you’re going to be. So I think it’s i think um it makes a ton of sense. Now, I have a couple of other just really simple questions for you. 34:21.39Audley WilsonAnd you’re just there waiting. 34:21.65vigorbrandingAnd I know your burger’s great. I’ve had it. So between, I’ll say, Burger King, McDonald’s, and Wendy’s, who makes the best burger? 34:28.40Audley Wilsonah wendy um Wendy’s, Dave Thomas all but all day long, but Shake Shack is definitely my my favorite here as a New Yorker. 34:33.92vigorbrandingYeah, right. 34:39.09Audley Wilsonum yeah I’m a big Shake Shack fan. 34:42.94vigorbrandingYeah, I totally and you know what i agree with exactly what you said. I do agree with Wendy’s out of those three. And I i love Shake Shack. I’m a diehard Phillies fan. They have one down outside the stadium or inside the stadium. And that’s that’s usually my go to that or hot dog. Of course, it’s a baseball game. um And, you know, I was at Burger America in New York and who does the smash burger? and ah the Mr. Mott’s and he said he dedicated his life to the hamburger. So you two have a lot in common. You ought to yeah you you ought to connect. 35:07.38Audley WilsonOh, man, yeah. 35:08.79vigorbrandingHe’s a 35:09.12Audley Wilsonum but i ever I think that’s I’d love to connect to it. another 35:11.99vigorbrandingYeah. Yeah. And so now like one final meal, if you have to, you could pick anything other than your burger. I can’t let you just pick your burger, but anything, what would your, yeah what would your final meal be? 35:19.30Audley WilsonOh, definitely. Yeah, let’s see. 35:22.01vigorbrandingWhat would it be? And where would you have it? Why? 35:26.91Audley WilsonProbably lobster and oysters um on a beach in Jamaica. 35:30.29vigorbrandingVery good. 35:33.31vigorbrandingOh, nice. Well done. I like that. I can, I can picture that. That’s fantastic. 35:37.01Audley WilsonBecause I’m Jamaican, because I’m Jamaican, and whenever me and my wife are down there, I love love hitting up a nice lobster um but from like the rust, the shack on the beach. 35:41.71vigorbrandingThat’s great. 35:50.49vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. Ollie, you were wonderful. Is there anything else you want to mention about what you’re up to or anything else about the ah Robo Burger? 35:58.65Audley WilsonYeah, well, you know, so right now we’re offering robo burger for sale for the first time really to the general public. Previously, we’ve only been working with like some of the, the biggest players that manage food and, uh, and convenience. So now we’re actually, uh, selling these units. 36:14.19vigorbrandingFantastic. 36:14.15Audley WilsonSo if anybody is interesting in getting their hands on the unit, we’d love to speak with you. Um, come check us out on our website, the robo burger.com th E robo burger.com. Um, and, uh, looking forward to speaking with you. 36:27.91vigorbrandingAli, you are awesome. I appreciate your time and I love your passion and congratulations on your success and your fortitude, I’ll say. You just smile and keep going forward. So, I mean, it’s amazing and I’m really, really impressed by what you’ve done. Thank you. 36:41.09Audley WilsonWell, thank you so much. I appreciate speaking with you. 36:44.92vigorbrandingGood deal. 

Embassy Ingredients combines creativity and science to provide its customers with the very best innovative flavors and bakery ingredients available. Embassy Ingredients has an on-site flavor lab and full bakery test kitchen staffed with certified flavorists, food scientists and bakery specialists.They formulate, test and manufacture a wide range of flavors and bakery ingredients ensuring that taste, quality and performance are built into every product.Natural ingredients and colors have taken over, with nearly 80% of flavors and ingredients being natural. Using high quality, natural ingredients is something Embassy Ingredients has been focused on for many years. It is possible to have indulgence AND clean labels. Many products that are indulgent and taste great have clean labels. The technology today allows for the use of natural ingredients that taste as good or better than the artificial ingredients of the past. The typical Embassy customer takes 12-18 months to launch a new product. For that reason, tracking trends that are in the earliest stages and will still be relevant a year from now is important. QUOTES ]“When I started, I was the only employee. I got the orders in the morning, made them in the afternoon, delivered them the next day and got more orders.” (Martino)“As a 17 year old kid I found out that persistence and perseverance were the personality traits you need as an entrepreneur.” (Martino) “In the 90s I'd say about 80% of the flavors that were sold were artificial and 20% were natural. Right now it's about 80% natural and 20% artificial.” (Martino) “We've always tried to keep the junk out of mixes. Just because you're buying something you want to indulge in, doesn't mean it has to be completely unhealthy for you.” (Martino)“If it's not needed inside the product, why put it in?” (Martino) “When you indulge, it better be good. You don’t want something that's being made as inexpensively as possible.” (Martino) “Every crisis you face you learn some new business skills you didn't know you had.” (Martino) “During a crisis (like COVID), people eat more sweets than in a non-crisis.” (Martino)“If you taste test new recipes for a living, you get really good at tasting without eating.” (Martino)  TRANSCRIPT 00:01.76vigorbrandingToday’s guest is someone who knows a lot about ingredients a lot about flavor trends and a lot about baked goods. He’s Martino Babila and he’s the founder and president of embassy ingredients welcome to show Martino and thank you very much for joining us. So. 00:13.47MartinoThank you Michael thanks for being glad to be on the show. 00:18.41vigorbrandingYep, So tell everyone you know a little bit about Embassy ingredients. What’s your mission and what do you guys? do. 00:21.59MartinoSo embassy ingredients is centered on the bakery trace so we supply ingredients to large scale bakeries. So we have a side of our business that makes flavors and a side that makes the industrial version you might say of a Duncan hides cake mix. So when you go off to your supermarket or to Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks you’ll find our ingredients and a lot of the baker that you’re going to be buying at those qsars or supermarkets. 00:47.54vigorbrandingFantastic I like in forktails we talk about food and beverage right? So restaurants you know cpg all of the like. But what’s really kind of cool about you and your businesses is you make the flavors and the reasons we go to restaurants reason we buy Cpg is because we like the way stuff tastes we like the way they prepare their food and you guys are. Kind of the secret ingredient if you will ah in in behind it all. So my first question I’ve known you for a long time but I actually found this out and did not realize it so I think this is fantastic and a great way to start I love I love stories. Um, you know I started my agency. Ah my first advertising agency when I was 27 I thought that was really young. Ah, but you took over your father’s company as owner and president when you were seventeen years old ah you know and when I was 17 I was probably getting in trouble for speeding with my my new driver’s license. So I mean I can’t imagine ah starting and running a company at that point in time. Can you can you tell tell us that story how how does someone start a company or take over a company at 17. 01:45.63MartinoBut it started actually 2 years before that my dad pulled me out of school when it was in grade eleven. So technically I never graduated high school and I started a company with my brother and I and my dad so the 3 of us started up a business that was mostly distribution. My dad had a hobby of. Bringing in these flavors from italy diluting them with simple syrup which is water and sugar and we used to sell them to bakeries up and down the street. All these small italian bakeries that were all over toronto. These toronto is a large italian community Two years later my brother went off and started directing television commercials. He’s in video art. He’s done pretty well though he’s ah he did the the graphics for the sphere for the u 2 concert. Yeah and my dad and I didn’t really see I eye on how to run a business because he wanted to have a business with no employees and the business was going bankrupt. 02:28.68vigorbrandingUm, yeah, very cool. 02:39.68MartinoSo my dad left and I took over a $5000 a year business so that was our total sales or remember at that point and I had a j two thousand wagon to do my deliveries in so there wasn’t a lot of speeding going on in that j two thousand bag and I think if I floored that sucker it wasn’t going over 60 02:44.82vigorbrandingYeah, yeah. 02:54.12vigorbrandingA. 02:59.43MartinoYeah, So so that’s how the business started I was the only employee basically got the orders in the morning made them in the afternoon delivered them again the next day got more orders we slowly ah slowly grew the business started making our own flavors started getting into bakery Mixes. Bought used equipment from a company that went bankrupt and we started blending our own cake mixes for these bakeries and then as we grew we started getting into more industrial customers and then our business model kind of evolved into dealing with the larger and larger bakeries and the big product Launches. So. And where I really learn how to run a business is that as a 70 year old kid I found that but persistence and Perseverance really are what is the personality trait you need as an entrepreneur like without that you’re not going to make it but then I went back to school in my forty s. 03:48.31vigorbrandingAny man. 03:55.33MartinoI went to a class called opm at Harvard and it’s ah nine weeks of schooling at Harvard is three weeks every year over three years that’s when I joined ypo because about 20% of but classmates were Ypr is and organization that we both belong to learn how to develop a business model learn how to really run a company rather than just ah, having a job in grunt work and building a business that way and really expanded the business after that and and that’s when we really broke into. Um, you might say we deal with all the largest bakeries in North America right now. So our products are going to be in your baked goods whenever you want to indulge. It’s probably something of mine is in something you’re eating during the week 04:34.64vigorbrandingUm. 04:42.92vigorbrandingYeah I heard you say it before and that’s that’s amazing like there’s probably everybody in in the country at USCanada and I think South America said too that they they taste your products you’re you’re you’re in there. You’re in their bread or their their cupcake or their. 04:53.66MartinoAnd Natural America. Yeah. 05:00.66vigorbrandingThey’re muffin somewhere right. 05:00.74MartinoAnd we’re also some global launches with some retailers so we produce the product mostly North America sometimes we export it internationally. So there’s some of our products that are going all over the globe and global launches. 05:15.55vigorbrandingThat’s Great. You know I think it’s It’s really Interesting. You brought up about I’ll say either Ypo or I’ll just see entrepreneurs as a whole the folks I talked to on this program are all like presidents or or ceos of of companies. A lot of them are entrepreneurs. Um. Everyone seems to have by and large the same store I think I think a lot of people just think oh you know? Yeah yeah, you were highly Educated. You came from money. Ah you were handed this opportunity and that’s quite the opposite like pretty much everybody has that same thing in common that they they grind it out. They they started at the bottom they had an idea. They didn’t have any money they they just they they just pushed and I think that’s the that is the secret sauce and and absolutely every one of these great like ah stories I get to hear you know everybody just kind of pushes and pushes and pushes and and doesn’t give up I mean I’m sure you faced a lot of ah adversity. Ah, can you talk a little bit about some of the things that that you bumped up against. 06:11.56MartinoWell, you know what I had 0 money when I took it over and at 17 you can’t even legally book get a loan from the bank because I wasn’t eighteen yet. So my only line of credit was a credit card that the bank manager was able to give me I had no help from anybody including my family actually. 1 thing that 1 thing that drove me a lot in terms of adversity was my dad’s parting words when he left was I’ll be bankrupt in six months so the thing is if I don’t think he meant it that way but that inspired me to never throw in the towel. Ah and and that’s part of my personality is. 06:45.48vigorbrandingUm. 06:50.75MartinoI I will never give up I just just before this podcast I just got off a call with one of our largest customers and we’re trying to work on a big new program with them and at the end of the phone call I tell them well 1 thing you’ll notice about embassy we’re very persistent and he just started laughing and he goes yes I’ve noticed that. 07:08.87vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic Hey you got to be a bulldog. 07:09.69MartinoTo this day. Yeah to this data and what if if there’s one trait that will make an entrepreneur successful or any business leader successful is persistence. 07:20.27vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, we call it being bulldoggged here I mean we we all ah, that’s our mascot and it’s sort of our attitude you got to just be. You know you got to be bulldoggged about stuff just don’t give up and keep pushing forward. So that’s that’s awesome advice. Um all right? So let’s jump into the business thing here. Let’s talk about. Ah, the clean labels in the 80 s and 90 s people didn’t care about additives preservatives artificial colors as long as the finished products tasted good and that’s no longer the case right? So how how much of a challenge has that been to keep up with the demand for cleaner ingredients. 07:49.18MartinoWell let me give you an example on the flavor side back in the 90 s I’d say 80% of all the flavors were sold were artificial and 20% more natural I think right now it’s about 80% natural 20% artificial 08:03.90vigorbrandingMe. 08:06.83MartinoAnd that also has gone to the color side. Um, the challenge. There’s a challenge there. There’s a cost increase in some cases but not always ah but at this point here after doing it for so many years. It’s quite simple to switch a product from Being. An artificially flavored and colored product to at least the natural flavors. The colors are more of a challenge. Ah, but that also could be done now. But that’s the most costly part is the is the color side. Um in terms of clean label in terms of what you’re Eating. We actually have fun in that like like. 08:35.98vigorbrandingYou. 08:43.98MartinoWe’ve always tried to keep the junk out of our mixes only because you’re buying something that you want to indulge in doesn’t mean it has to be completely unhealthy for you and we’ve always thought about if it’s not needed inside the product. Why put it it so we’ve always looked at keeping a shorter ingredient deck. Keeping it natural and even there we’ve done a lot of very old natural products that we launched over the last few years 09:07.73vigorbrandingSo so you can’t have indulgence in clean labels right? I mean even though we’re talking cakes and cookies people. You know they they want to watch what they eat but they can still have clean labels right. 09:19.50MartinoOh absolutely actually some of my favorite products that you find in the store shelf that are indulgent and taste great. Our clean label. Um, so in the 70 s the technology wasn’t there to make them clean label. And give the conditions that you need in the supermarket. For example, if if you produce a big good Today. You have to make it freeze it and then it has to go to the supermarket and then the supermarket typically wants to thaw the product and have it on the shelf for up to eight days so that customers can buy bring it over and it still tastes good. In the 70 s the technology wasn’t there to do that. Naturally the technology is there now that using natural ingredients you can achieve that and you can actually make it tasted better than using an artificial ingredients. 10:00.40vigorbranding5 10:06.61vigorbrandingVery cool. So I mean talking about trends um you and I met probably years and years ago and I would do the food and beverage trends presentation at ypo and ah for ah for anybody that’s listening would would care if they go to cheers at quench agency. dotcomthey can download our food and beverage trends presentation. It’s free. We have several years we always have the most updated on the website so that’s always there so that’s how that’s how you and I met and but the thing that we had in common right? away was was talking about trends and I know that you follow them very closely. 10:39.50MartinoUp. 10:41.18vigorbrandingUm, the way we always looked at it. There’s innovators who are really super early on a train then there’s early adopters early majority and then late majority and then obviously laggards We’re always obviously trying to be in the forefront. Um, when I do a Trends presentation. It’s like sometimes people are like well I’ve already heard of that. Well. If No one had heard of it before at all, it certainly wouldn’t be a trend so you want to catch that early edge of it. Talk about like how you look at Trends because you’ve told me before a lot of times your flavor profiles and things like That. You’re just listening you’re watching and and again I think you’ve always said too. You want to be on the early side of it because till you can get it to Market. Ah, if you know if you wait til the the the late majority will hell it’s too late I mean it’s ah you you know it’s It’s past it’srying. 11:21.79MartinoHey look even inside the company here at embassy we have a lot of the dates about trends and how do we do the market research. So our typical customer takes 12 to 18 months to launch a product from the time we present it. 11:36.65vigorbrandingE. 11:39.22MartinoOr they request a presentation which means that if you’re trying to grab a trend that’s already out there. They’re going to be at the at after the peak. So it’s about looking at the trends that are up and coming and. 11:52.15vigorbrandingE. 11:56.11MartinoThat really makes us that the most successful products that we’ve launched have been with companies that haven’t done focus groups that haven’t done the mentel research in terms of these are because if you wait eighteen months after that comes out, you’re you’re getting the tail end of the trend. 12:14.11vigorbrandingThat’s right. 12:14.20MartinoYou’re getting already where you’re going to be losing money on it. The most successful launches we have is when you’re scouring social media. You’re looking at what’s happening at the local small bakeries when you’re going to the trade shows and you’re looking at the booths that couldn’t afford the the really good area in the middle. 12:27.60vigorbrandingAh. 12:32.94MartinoAnd they’re right at the back corner and these entrepreneurial companies that are really hungry and come up with this novel little product. Ah those where you get the ideas for the really good trends and then you have to then you have to sort out all these trends that you’ve seen and all these ideas These people are having of which. 12:40.70vigorbrandingUm. 12:52.48MartinoI’d say 80% will fail and not really become a mass Market trend and then hopefully pick the right one to say this one’s got legs. Let’s really present it to our customers and when we have customers that don’t want to go to the focus groups because. A lot of those trends will fail in the focus group because we’re showing that the customer somebody. They’ve never seen before but when people are willing to take a chance and say this is up and Coming. We’ve seen great results coming out the other end. 13:15.24vigorbrandingWho. 13:26.11vigorbrandingVery Cool. So How how do you balance that? How do you bounce between ah a trending exotic flavor and say something that’s familiar like comfort food so you mean at the end of the day. Sometimes you just want a really good chocolate chip cookie or a blueberry muffin I mean how does that work like how much how do you decide how much of these exotics. Or how much of ah ah say a flyer. Do you take on some of these new flavors. 13:48.23MartinoYeah, it’s like the basics are easy to sell and they’re always going to be a mass market item and they’re going to get great sales out of them and you could tweak those a little bit so sometimes if you don’t want to take too much risk. You can do a tweak on a basic. And then you can get on a new trend with a tweak on a basic um or you can try experimenting with ltos so a lot of our customers will try with ltls like so it reduces the risk factor and they can see if it’s something that can go mainstream and they can make it go all year round. And they come in with a three month lto project but it’s it’s really listening to the noise in the media and going around to different parts of the world and seeing what’s trending there because the us is going to get the trends usually after Europe and after asia gets them it depending the community you’re trying to Target. And it’s really listening what’s coming out of there and trying to grab um to it at the right point. 14:48.74vigorbrandingVery cool. So if if you can tell me what are some of the trends you’re tracking now like in terms of ingredients and maybe recipe development is there anything. That’s that you’re looking at that you think is pretty cool, exciting and new. 14:59.41MartinoWell, the stuff that’s coming out sometimes it’s not as exciting as new as I would like it to be but sometimes yeah and and you know what every year we publish a little pit thing that we send out to everybody like at like and at the end of 2023 15:06.61vigorbrandingBut it sells. 15:17.84MartinoWhat other transfer 2024 and it sounds like oh my my god embassy’s got a crystal ball though. The reality is is our customers are always launching 12 to 18 months out. We already know what’s trending for 2024 because it’s already in the pipeline. So. 15:28.84vigorbrandingWho. 15:32.32MartinoWhat’s really trending for next year is a lot of basics. It seems like coming out of covid everybody wants comfort foods. Ah everybody wants to get into what their what their grandmother used to make into that comfort and so on ah, there’s a lot of indulgence where they wanted a lot richer to though. 15:36.13vigorbrandingHer. 15:51.67MartinoSo they want something with a lot of richness. So if if people trending wise are trying to get healthier in general like there’s a there’s a push right now where people are drinking a little bit less alcohol people are trying to get a little bit healthier but people still want to indulge so when before. 16:10.40vigorbrandingUm. 16:11.62MartinoA lot of customers would want. Okay, how inexpensive can we make this There’s a little bit more of a push for quality so that with the clean label push is also coming to push where if I’m going to consume eight hundred calories I want it to be worth the one hour on the treadmill I’m going not to pay for this. And it’s going to taste really good and there’s nothing wrong with indulging once’s in a wild no matter what diet or you’ on you have you need to indulge or also there’s nothing long term to going to happen. But when you indulge it better be good. You don’t want to have something that had 3 cost cutting projects done before it. And it’s being made as inexpensively as possible so people are trending more. They’ll spend a little bit more money but by a smaller portion and that’s one trend that I really am supporting because everybody would rather sell quality than something that doesn’t have that quality behind it. 16:55.82vigorbrandingAnd. 17:07.97vigorbrandingYeah I mean that makes sense absolutely so I mean you started your business. You’re 17 you’ve you’ve obviously seen a lot of challenges 2008 covid and I’m sure there’s ah, a million in between. Um. Like what are some of the the biggest challenges you’ve gone through I know you’ve said that the the covid pandemic is your biggest professional accomplishment were there others before that you want to talk a little bit about that and go into the whole covid thing. What you did there. 17:32.82MartinoOh I guess the the big the last time before covid that was a great learning process every every crisis Trust me, you learned some new business skills. You never thought you had was 2008 financial crisis like and for about three months or sales went down 50% because none of our customers knew what to buy or if to buy anything and so on and it ended up just being a depletion of supply chain because what we found that that during a crisis people actually more sweets than in a non-crisis so business rebounded very fast after that. 18:05.40vigorbrandingThat’s right? so. 18:11.59MartinoUm, during Covid The biggest issue was supply chain. Okay, that’s that’s probably with everybody else. It was a matter of how do we keep our customers supplied and how do we keep their operations going and how do they continue supplying their customers and how do we get the food of the table. 18:14.36vigorbrandingAre. 18:30.63MartinoAh, for the people that need it. So That’s where the challenges were so it was a lot of prioritizing reformulting sometimes they use less of an ingredient that we use to use inside of a product we we we try to see. Okay, can we substitute it with other ingredients and bypass the shortage of this one ingredient So There was a lot of R and D work being done on that. Um, a lot of tough decisions like we had to abandon some of our expert Markets. We decided to focus in on our. 18:58.36vigorbrandingMy head. 19:06.70MartinoCanadian and us and Mexican customers and abandoned some of the other markets a little bit more than we had were’re aggressively pursuing before we stepped back until supply supply chain caught up and now we were reengaging again. 19:19.45vigorbrandingDid you feel like the supply chains are catching up. You feel like that’s getting better. 19:23.37MartinoSupply chains are catching up in most parts. What’s happening now to us is global warming so supply chain seems to be catching up and then you get an email that there’s a drought in Africa so in the ivory coast. 19:40.34vigorbrandingMyth. 19:41.60MartinoSo now you can’t get cocoa so you’re gonna everybody’s gonna be seeing if there’s anything chocolate on the shelf that’s going to probably go up 30 to 50% in price and in some cases you want to even be able to find it so the world cocos and chocolate supply just went down 30% 19:49.39vigorbrandingWow. 19:59.66vigorbrandingThe. 20:00.24MartinoBecause of one drought. So we’re finding a lot of the challenges that we’re having right now is all due to global warming and crisis happening in certain parts of the world and then mitigating the supply challenge of that ingredient that got affected. 20:15.21vigorbrandingIncredible. Um, so I mean okay during Covid I mean there was the shutdown at home baking was a big trend Certainly that’s not bad for you but but it certainly you probably do but even better with the store bought bake goods and things like that is that correct. 20:28.63MartinoWell at Home Beagle was terrible for us. We don’t have anything that is for the at home baker. Ah we only supply the large bakeries that will supply all your qsrs and your supermarkets. 20:33.69vigorbrandingUm, ah. 20:39.14vigorbrandingSo you’re not in any mixes you’re just in the actual the finished product got it. 20:44.74MartinoYeah, we’re in we’re in the finished product. So covid even the work from home was now good for us because a lot of the sales like you can use. Ah, let’s say Duncan as an example like a lot of people will get a coffee on their way to the office and then when they get their coffee. They’ll also get a muffin. 20:56.47vigorbrandingUm. 21:03.28MartinoOr they’ll get a bagel. But if you’re not going to the office. You might not leave your house to get the coffee and if you’re not getting the coffee. You’re also not getting the muffin or bagel or donut So the work from Home. Ah. Also affected the business and where the customer shop because it went into the supermarket rather than the qsrs. So. It’s a matter of finding out where the new outlet is. 21:30.25vigorbrandingYeah, the work from home thing is still affecting everybody I know that it’s ah it’s just a whole different animal and there’s a lot of real estate out there. That’s sitting empty and it’s just ah, it’s changed how we are. It’s ah it’s interesting to see how this all evolves. Um, so. 21:44.10vigorbrandingYou know?? Ah well I’m going to go back to another another question so in in your on your website it says here if you’re an employee of of Embassy you get bakery treats galore all right. So that is a perk right? So if someone was starting Tomorrow. What would they find are there bakely treats. Ah bakekery treat school or waiting for them. 22:03.70MartinoOh absolutely like ah so how we work our quality department is that every time we make a batch of anything we test a batch and we actually make the finish cake so we have ah. 22:15.87MartinoEndless amount of baked goods coming out of our bakery testing the products that we made that is free to take for any any of their employees to take home with them. Take it home to their family and so on and then depending on your job function. But any ah, any employee gets invited to this. We’re always developing new products in R and D and we’re always looking for people to taste the products and give us feedback so in some job Functions. You have to be eating sweets every day. So for some people is a dream Job. So. 22:47.35vigorbrandingUm. 22:50.93MartinoYou get really good at tasting and not eating. Okay, so so because first you join embassy then you get what I call the embassy 15 ah, then you realize that okay I only had to take a bite out of that muffin I didn’t have to eat the whole muffin to taste it. Then you go back to just a bite and you get back regular but then you sometimes you get these really great. We just finished a project that just got approved last week is goingnna be a national launch later on this year at the in the us and. 23:11.16vigorbrandingAh, there. 23:25.27MartinoIt hit the sweet spot for exactly what I like I mean it was right down to bullseye for stuff that I have a weakness for it is the first time in a year that not only did I not taste I was actually actively asking r and d can you tell me when it comes out of the oven and make an next round for me. Ah. 23:43.28vigorbrandingAh, ah so now you’re gonna put on put on the 15 is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, never trust a skinny baker right? Then that end that what they say. 23:44.22MartinoBoy yeah I put on the 15 but you know what when it’s that good. The 15 is well worth it. You know what? like I said it’s it’s worth every every calorie at one point. How offs absolutely like what 1 baker 1 time was patting his belly and said this is my r and d department. 24:04.33vigorbrandingAh, that’s fantastic. That’s fantastic, Fantastic all right? So I’m going to test you with some rapid fire questions here on your baked goods I Want to know your personal favorites. Okay, so pancakes or waffles all right I would agree with that spongecake or angel food cake. 24:17.72MartinoWaffles. Okay, when I was 10 years old. There would be angel food cake Now let’s say sponge cake. 24:24.77vigorbrandingYeah I agree with that multigreen bread or white bread. Yeah same here donuts are danish. 24:31.50MartinoMultigrain. 24:36.46MartinoOh nice east straight donut. Ah so good brownies and oh and there’s 2 There’s also 2 camps in brownies. There’s the kki brownie people and the chewy brownie people. 24:36.71vigorbrandingAnd we’re we’re exactly in the same line here cookies or brownies. No. 24:53.73vigorbrandingUm I see that’s that’s great. That’s great. Yeah I prefer the chewy browning myself I Totally agree with that and you know it’s funny. You had said earlier too about how. 24:53.74MartinoAnd the world is split fifty fifty and I’m a chewy brownie person. 25:07.42vigorbrandingYou know when there’s issues with the economy suites go up. Um, you know we we worked in the ice cream category for many many years and that was absolutely the case you know you worry about like oh discretionary spending is going to go down. People aren’t going to spend money on grocery. They’re going to cut back just to the necessities. Ice cream is definitely a necessity. Any suite is a necessity when the when the economy’s in trouble. So that’s something we learned a long time ago I got 1 one last question I’m throwing a curve ballll here I’ve being a tang guy this is this is intriguing to me. There’s obviously dough which is you know in your breads and everything and I’m a italian I love bread. 25:41.50MartinoUm. 25:41.55vigorbrandingAnd then there’s there’s batter right in your pastries batter or batter or dough if you had to pick one or the other you can’t have anything ever again. Okay, all right I’d buy good dough. That’s bad. It’s forever where we’d split there well but basically you should. 25:47.63MartinoI go for the batter know I got a sweet tooth I got a sweet do in the gold sauce suit. 26:00.84vigorbrandingYeah, you you you basically should so okay, a couple last questions here I you I know you have a really busy. You said you’re on the road for like three weeks four weeks busy trade shows what? what trade shows? Do you go to like what you know and where do you find that you’re observing some of the cutting edge, edge flavors and food trends are they international shows they more national or. 26:14.30MartinoI. 26:19.82vigorbrandingI Mean where are you going and what are you seeing and why. 26:20.36MartinoIs it’s a combination of international and national shows like in the us you got the fancy food show you you have 2 of them and they happen in the states and again where we find value is all the middle of the show. You’ve already seen all that stuff. 26:25.42vigorbrandingAccess. 26:35.41vigorbrandingYeah, yeah. 26:37.99MartinoLike you’ve seen it on your website. You’ve seen it on every website you you want to look at those are stuff that stuff that’s been in the stores already or is about about to be launched. We’ve already heard of it I like the back corners and that new company booth. 26:46.69vigorbrandingUm. 26:54.48MartinoArea where all these new entrepreneurs are exhibiting their cl which you’re looking at finished products and that’s a more international show. There’s a nuga in Germany so we go to a lot of the international ones too because that gives us trends that are happening over there. Might be mainstream but they haven’t come to the us or Canada yet. So that gives us maybe a outlook going. Okay, which one is transportable and which one is not in our industry show. There’s like id to be a that’s a bakery show just for our industry. There’s Ibe and vegas that app is every three years 27:15.21vigorbrandingRight. 27:25.23vigorbrandingMe. 27:32.54MartinoAnd there’s some industry shows that are just for bakery that are happening in Germany and France. 27:36.65vigorbrandingVery cool, very cool all right. My last question for you Martino if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat and why and it can’t be 1 of your products. No can’t be 1 of your products. No no, no, you get off the grid here. 27:47.44MartinoWell has to be 1 of my products well can’t be 1 of my product. Okay, so I’m I’m italian so I’d like every nationality of food I’ll try anything and I eat everything but at the end of the day I’m italian it’s going to be italian food. 27:55.67vigorbrandingI know. 28:03.50vigorbrandingThere you go. 28:05.86MartinoAnd it could be anything from a great plate of pasta to and like steak Turk Tar the italian style not the french style. There’s 2 different first styles I’m on the italian side of course and then also like fish crudo like it’s thinly sliced raw fish. 28:14.54vigorbrandingBig difference. Yep. 28:24.14MartinoIt’s like the Italian version of the sushi. 28:27.25vigorbrandingUm, absolutely, that’s fantastic. Well done is there a special restaurant something in Toronto is there is your is your go to for you. 28:34.36MartinoWell, but the my favorite high end rest right? and to toronto that does italian food is a place called the nico ah it’s they have amazing high end italian food. But if you’re looking for like basic pastas and everything else. There’s a a mano pasta that’s it’s actually the a location in the train station but they have great pastas and you get them. They’re cheap and they’re really good. Ah, toronto’s going to half a million italians so it’s it’s hard to select 1 restaurant and I go to a lot of different restaurants and. 28:53.46vigorbrandingWow! yeah. 29:08.57MartinoBut that many Italians foods the culture. 29:10.75vigorbrandingThat’s it. That’s right amen that’s perfect Martino you were wonderful. It’s always a pleasure talking to you and and I always enjoy when we we get to hang out. So hopefully I’ll get to see you soon and I appreciate you being being a part of this all right buddy talk soon. 29:20.71MartinoThank you by Michael. 

Livit Design is the leading design firm specialized in creating unique guest experiences in the Food & Beverage and all areas of Hospitality, Fitness and Retail sectors. For over 20 years, Livit has worked as strategic advisors to investors and global brands on design, operations, guest journey and guest experience with the focus on improving efficiency, profitability and increasing growth potential.Livit Design bills itself as “a perfect mix of foodies, architects, interior designers, guest experience specialists, chefs, kitchen consultants, operations experts, entrepreneurs, graphic artists, DJ's, visionaries and restaurant operators.” One of the projects Benjamin and Livit Design is working on is called The Line. Located in Saudi Arabia by the Red Sea, The Line is billed as the future of urban living. The 105-mile long structure is just 650 feet wide and will eventually be home to more than nine million people. It has no roads, cars or emissions and runs on 100% renewable energy. All great restaurant design has to touch the emotions of diners, but there's not a magic wand that does that. Doing that requires great design and so many other touchpoints and factors. According to Ben, the hospitality industry is divided into two sides. One side focuses on convenience and the other is focused on experience. The Livit team is helping restaurant staff focus on hospitality by creating systems that automatically adjust sensory factors like scent and sound (music) to create better diner experiences.   QUOTES “I believe that one of the biggest differences between what we do and a regular design firm, but what's really challenging is understanding the operations. How do you make sure that you create designs that are profitable? That's where design really matters.” (Benjamin)“It could be the scents, it could be the sounds, it could be the thickness of the menu. There are so many small details in creating that holistic experience.” (Benjamin) “Consumers are getting picky. You go out less. The bland experiences – trying to be everything to everyone – those are the brands that are really suffering. You need to be niche, you need to create a phenomenal experience and you need to be a driver.” (Benjamin) “Restaurant design is an investment, not a cost.” (Benjamin) “Brands that try to be everything to everyone – they're audience is literally dying. That's a struggle in a world where everything is becoming more specialized.” (Benjamin) “We're going to see a lot more artificial intelligence (in restaurants and design). It's going to be better than humans at a lot of the repetitive tasks. Whether that's comps and analysis, restaurant layouts, optimization of spaces, etc.” (Benjamin) “I'm a lighting freak. I think lighting and acoustics are the two things that designers will often overlook and they're not well taught in design schools.” (Benjamin) “The things you touch – the cutlery, the table, the chairs, the glassware, the plateware – those are the most important things.” (Benjamin)  TRANSCRIPT 00:00.00vigorbrandingWell hello today’s guest is someone at the forefront of restaurant design. His name is Ben Kaa I probably pronounced it wrong even though I practice and he’s the founder and chief experience officer at design the what’s amazing is every 8 hours a new live design restaurant opens somewhere in the world. 00:07.00BenAre. 00:19.87vigorbrandingEvery 8 hours a new live at design restaurant opens somewhere in the world. It’s amazing which means he’s a pretty busy guy I think he traveled as much as any human being on earth and anyway so Benjamin welcome. Thank you so much for joining us I’m fascinated by what you do and your story. 00:24.68BenIf that. 00:36.43BenThanks Michael thanks for having me um I can I can maybe start with an anecdote. My daughter has an app that tracks my flights and she said hey dad. You know that you flew from the earth to the moon last year 00:47.81vigorbrandingWow, that’s right’s right? and your back probably hurts. You know I did 2 cities you know I was I started in in New York City yesterday afternoon I went to Atlanta for the. 00:50.10BenAnd then I said yeah honey. But next year I have to fly back. 00:57.81BenThe. 01:06.23vigorbrandingThe rest of the day flew back to Harrisburg waiting day and I thought I did something which was ah nothing compared to what you’re doing there so but anyway, ah, but but but through your travels. Not only do you do brilliant work that I was able to witness some in person with you. 01:16.81BenUm, yeah, are. 01:21.00vigorbrandingAh, but we get to see and learn about a lot. What’s going on in the world. So just first of all, tell us a little bit about live it design. You know how you started about you the whole beginnings. 01:32.40BenYeah, absolutely so I’m an architect by trade and started this company 98 which is what twenty seven years ago or something and always with the intention of becoming a 1 ne-stop shop for everything f and b um, it’s a strange company I would say I haven’t seen anything like it where we have. Chefs and operators and kitchen designers and equipment consultants but also architects and engineers and we have deejs and uniform designers. So. It’s really, ah, you know, really a 1 ne-stop shop for for anything and everything restaurant related and um, you know we maybe for the first you know. Five or six years we were mostly in Europe and then we’ve grown internationally we’re now in 45 countries. The us is our biggest market. Obviously it’s where we have most you know multi-unit restaurants. And that’s our focus we work a lot with private equity. We work a lot with you know the world’s biggest brands so sort of scalability and profitability are almost more important than you know collars and fabrics if you will. 02:32.45vigorbrandingThat’s great. That’s great and and you know it’s it’s cool because again some of the stuff and the style and design that you bring forth is is absolutely beautiful. But then you said it, you’re working with a lot of these large brands and I don’t think people might necessarily. I don’t know attach great architectural design to to the likes of like Starbucks Pizza Hut Taco Bell burger king things like that. But you work with all of them and then I think when people really do focus. They can see what the design is and and how you’re bringing that forth and how you’re making everything much more operationally savvy you want to talk a little bit about that. 03:04.61BenYeah I mean probably there’s not a single person in the western world that hasn’t eaten at 1 of our designs and it’s as you say it’s everything from Starbucks to Ritz culture right? and I think. Often as you say design or highqual design is attached to the risk alters of this world right? Ah, but it’s equally important in any fast cache when any qsr I believe that one of the the biggest differences between what we do and and a regular design firm is that you know the actual front of the house. It’s. 03:35.24vigorbrandingThen. 03:35.38BenEasy part. That’s the fun part. The the mood boards. The pinterest anyone can do that. What is really challenging especially in in scalable brands is understanding the operations. You know how do you make sure that you create designs that work that are profitable that minimize labor. All those things. Are often overlooked at from a design perspective and I think that’s really where design really matters not only in the look and feel of things. But how the engine really runs and works and that’s why I think it’s so important that designers understand the business from the inside. 04:14.00vigorbrandingUm, that’s that’s great. What’s the 1 thing you think every great restaurant design has in common. 04:20.20BenUm, well um I think touches to touch the emotions of the guest. Um, you know we are constantly bombarded by experiences and social media etc and you know when something really touches you close. That’s that’s magic and I think that’s. The beauty of our industry right? hospitality that we get to touch. Ah, people’s lives and their experiences and their celebrations. Um, so so that’s something really important and there’s not a magic wand to do that. It’s like oh create a restroom design that you know touches people’s hearts. It’s. 04:37.20vigorbrandingMan. 04:55.40BenIt’s a combination of so many things and design is one of those components but it could be the scent. It could be the sound. It could be the the thickness of the menu. There’s so many small details in creating that holistic experience that is unique. Um, so you really need to work on I Always say that the designer or a good designer should be like the spider in the web you you change something in the operations and it will affect the guest experience you change you create a Wow moment on the customer Journey. It will affect the culinary side. So. There’s a lot of things and moving parts in a good restroom design and that’s really what I do think that you know great restroom designs have in common that there’s a red thread. You know, along all these things that you know make that cohesive. Fantastic experience. 05:45.15vigorbrandingIt’s brilliant and ah you know you’re you’re you’re a man after my heart I mean ah we do branding we do advertising and marketing for restaurants we our job is to drive people to that front door right? And. We always talk about the consumer journey. We talk about the experience what they’re hearing what they’re seeing what they’re feeling ah the the emotion that we can bring forth and I think when when sometimes when we talk about this stuff. People think it’s all just sort of like ah maybe marketing propaganda but it truly is all about that that experience from the from the sofa. To the seat in the restaurant right? and I love you know again, whether it’s whether it’s a burger King or a Ritz-carlton I love how you sweat the details and I think um I’ve I’ve heard you speak and I’ve seen some of the different lectures you’ve given and. I know like covid ah obviously was a huge game changer in a lot of things that we’ve done. It kept us at home and but you’re seeing um, experience come back right? You’re seeing that physical experience becoming much more important. 06:46.64BenYeah I mean we have I think the advantage of you know as you said in the beginning we open roughly a thousand restaurants every year right all over the world. So we can. Not that we have the crystal ball but we sort of see trends and understand what’s happening in Asia -pacific what’s happening in australia what’s happening in the middle east in the europe in the us etc and 1 1 thing that we’ve seen is a polarization of the industry and I’ll try to explain it. So either you play on the convenience side of things. I want it here I want it now. Um you know I go online and I want it send to wherever I am in less than 50 minutes or you play in the experience side to your point about what do we need to create from an experiential side for people to leave their netflix and their sofa and really go out and have an experience and. 07:34.83vigorbrandingUm. 07:35.45BenConsumers are getting picky. You know you go out less and therefore the Bland experiences right? The the um the legacy American brands is a great example like you know trying to be everything to everyone. Those are the brands that are really really suffering. 07:46.78vigorbrandingMove. 07:53.69BenYou know, really now you need to be niche. You need to create a phenomenal experience. You need to be a driver or you play completely in the opposite you know, ah spectrum and just play on convenience and speed etc and that’s something that we’re seeing Globally you know the trends used to be more regional if you will or or you know continental. 08:06.45vigorbrandingWho. 08:12.54BenNow Trends are really global and that’s something that we’re really seeing Overall so to your point you know, not only driving their guest to the experience but making sure you deliver on that experience is what keeps people coming back. 08:23.46vigorbrandingYeah that’s great. You know it’s funny I was just as I said traveling and I was in an airport somewhere us and I wanted to grab something very quick to eat and get some coffee so this was actually yesterday morning I ran into this diner. Ah, they had a menu that was a Qr code. Fantastic no problem I do that so order my food I went through this whole thing and it was kind of like a pain I just wanted to order some eggs and it was breakfast but I did it I did it no problem I don’t want the thirty drinks they tried to offer me I didn’t want ah of 30 different cocktails. They tried to offer me was like to get through the thing they wanted a tip I’m like. 08:51.13BenAre. 08:58.85vigorbrandingI thought I was supposed to tipple in the service I haven’t met a person yet I haven’t seen anything I haven’t gotten food and nothing but I actually had to program my tip and and pay with a credit card before anything showed up I think sometimes some of the automation can go a little too far. That’s my opinion I mean I think we lose some of the personal touch and the experience and and all that. But anyway. 09:00.29BenAre. 09:16.31vigorbrandingI Just thought I just thought that was ah like a weird kind of experience. 09:18.38BenI think I think we’re all. It’s a very US thing you know I was in Vegas the other day and like I grab a can of coke from the fridge I bring it to the counter I say I want to pay and they flip the screen and say tip you know. 09:28.49vigorbrandingI mean. 09:33.93vigorbrandingUm, yeah, yeah, right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 09:34.88BenIt was like 1824 28% is like ah what this this is convenience store. Um, but I do think that you know one of the one of the things that sometimes operators are getting wrong is that technology and efficiency should be a means to. Ah, make hospitality better. Make sure that your employees can actually focus on what people are doing better than than machines rather than take out the hospitality of it. So I think. 09:56.70vigorbrandingWho the customer. Yeah no. 10:08.63BenYou know I often get the question because I speak a lot about robotics and innovation and trends in terms of you know what? the future of the industry is and they say well you know we’re going to you know, ah get ah, get out of jobs and you know hospital is going to die yes on the contrary. 10:22.64vigorbranding1 10:24.55BenYou know, rather than you know, being in the back of the house in a fridge doing inventory. Why don’t you go out and talk to your guests you know and and give them a smile and you know ask how the day was. That’s true hospitality and let a machine just manage your inventory. You don’t need to sit there with an excel file and do that. 10:43.28vigorbrandingYeah I mean it’s amazing. You know in 1 of your presentations I saw it I I might get the name of the company wrong. But I can describe what it was I think it’s called each and it was ah it looked like I mean basically the back of the restaurant looked like a manufacturing facility with no people in it. Is that the the computerized system that can like learn the menu items and actually make it and clean itself is that the does I get that right. 11:03.78BenYeah, yeah, so you know we’re now part of some of the world’s biggest projects I guess you’ve heard of the line this you know 170 kiilometer long building built. Yeah so we’re we’re designing some of the f and b there and and sort of understanding the future. There’s now. 11:13.57vigorbrandingAh, we got to talk about that. It’s incredible. It’s ah. 11:21.90BenYou know pieces of equipment that can do up to 15000 dishes per day individual dishes so they can remember you know your Michael your your flavor profile you know? Ah, um, your spiciness levels etc. You know attach a cure code to that specific dish and have it served and they can self-clean themselves. You know. 11:26.85vigorbrandingUm, it’s incredible. 11:41.50BenThe evolution of technology is just amazing specifically if you go to China I think yeah China is sort of for the western world sort of a black box. We’ve had you know office in in Shanghai for many many years and done business there for many of the world’s global brand and. That’s really where I see the innovation happening in terms of you know, not only development of equipment but embracing of technology in the actual operations I think in in in the west or you know, specifically in the us we just scratched the surface on what. You know the future is bringing in terms of automation innovation and also quality and consistency. You know there’s certain things that machines are really really good at is that making things over and over again repetitive tasks doing them perfectly right? And that’s tough for humans. 12:25.55vigorbrandingUm, right? Yeah I know I know I have a very poor golf swing and I know that a simulated golf swing is way better than mine will ever be. So I mean there’s just certain repetitive things and to your point precision that a machine will be better At. And I know like I’ll offend the artists out there that are chefs and everything I don’t I don’t mean to offend but I mean it’s just I was blown away by that machine and and and with the capability of what it was able to do really remarkable. 12:50.87BenYeah, and I think it goes beyond that if we we could you know we we sort of put this in Silos right? There’s there’s equipment in the back of the house and I always say oh people talk about robots to me. The dishwasher is the best robot out there right? The only thing is now. 13:04.21vigorbrandingAre. 13:07.57Bens dishwasers with a yeah that recognize the different dishes then they take it out of the dishwasher and put it on on a shelf to dry. You know the whole automation process and nobody needs to be a dishwasher anymore and I doubt that nobody wants to be a dishwasher It’s just a way of starting right. But the same goes with with all the other things that you know if you think of music right? You know, um as you know and we can talk about later. We have our own restaurant innovation labs that we use to test things spotify uses them to understand the the impact of music behavior on guest. 13:24.19vigorbrandingAh. 13:32.13vigorbrandingYeah. 13:39.38BenSo you can actually automate. You know the music in the restaurants to change human behavior in terms of you want them to stay longer. Do you want them to stay shorter. You want to upsell, certain products, etc, etc. And that’s all automated right? and that could be connected to how many people you have in the store in real-time. Etc. Another thing is sent. You can change the different scents in the restaurant and depending on what cent you have you sell 1 product or the other all these things that influence human behavior and you know restaurant guest behavior happen without you as a guest noticing it but also without the interaction of anyone in the restaurant. 14:14.45vigorbrandingRight. 14:16.62BenAnd that’s what we see more and more right? How can some of these processes that traditionally have been managed by the restaurant manager or the agm or the team members. How can we offload those from their sort of day-to-day task and make sure that somebody centralized or or an ai engine does that. Better than they do so they can once again focus on the hospitality component of things. 14:38.67vigorbrandingYeah, it’s incredible I mean I saw one of your examples in the generative Ai where people that come into the restaurant would affect what would be on the walls like what they’re seeing and and and all that just it’s just incredible and it makes it makes an awful lot of sense as far as that whole immersive experience How you can really kind of make things. Ah. Personal fun, interesting. Always new it just it’s truly fascinating and speaking of you brought it up and I definitely want to hit that. Can you talk about the line that that blew my mind I mean and what is your role in that I know it’s got to be in the architecturally design. Ah as far as restaurants. 15:08.10BenUm, and. 15:16.12vigorbrandingTalk about the whole thing. It’s it’s crazy. 15:18.79BenYeah, yeah, I’m actually flying there. You know the day after tomorrow. So yeah, it’s it’s basically um, building a country right? It’s in Saudi Arabia and by the red sea. It’s a beautiful beautiful location it’s amazing it’s pristine um, I’ve been driving those beaches is just like fantastic right? You can compete with the maldates. Um, and you know it’s building if if we were to build a country or a city with everything we know and everything that we project. What would it be right. So basically the idea is you take a whole city and you put in 1 building and leave 98% of the land untouched and you know you create community living where you know you have everything you need within a 5 minute walk 15:50.83vigorbrandingRight. 15:59.24BenSo It’s really turning everything upside down and we’re helping with the F and B strategy on you know what does f and B strategy look like in the future. Um, it all started with our restroom Labs. We have you know sort of developed um a cross-trained de-skilled operating model. Where young team members can come in and and work without previous experience but deliver on a high note in a fine- dining environment and we started you know, building hotels and FAndBOutlets for Neome the different Neome regions right? Neum have several regions. Um, and that’s where we started you know working more and more into this different giga projects. You know there’s a lot going on that I cannot tell you because it’s sort of under Nda in the future. But what I can tell you it’s mind-blowing and the resources being poured into it is are phenomenal. It’s you know. You go there. It’s the best of the best whether that’s recycling energy water waste. It’s really a privilege to be part of of that environment. 16:58.28vigorbrandingIt’s crazy I do remember this was a big high long mirror building and just it was fascinating. Absolutely remarkable. 17:03.26BenUm, yeah I mean it’s the height of the empire state building two hundred meter wide you can have a football stadium up there three hundred meters up in the year and one hundred and seventy miles and kilometers long it will be built in faces. Of course it’s not being built all. But. 17:13.21vigorbrandingUm. 17:16.21vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, yeah. 17:20.50BenBut you know face 1 is two point four kilometers so and you know a cruise ship. Can you know, go through it. It’s just you know, really really exciting to be part of it. Yeah yeah, exactly exactly. 17:25.96vigorbrandingYeah, well they say Rome wasn’t built in a debt. You can’t build a whole country right? I mean so it’s going to take some time like that makes sense. 17:34.23BenSo and and you speak like you know you speak to Dubai and it was the same like we tried things. We tried the islands we tried the palm. We tried the second Paul we tried the Bush Cahalifa you know it. It requires a lot of vision to be able to move like a country like Dubai that doesn’t have a lot of natural resources to become a word-class you know touristist nation. 17:37.46vigorbrandingMoon. 17:53.75BenSo there’s a vision behind it and it’s going to take time. 17:54.10vigorbrandingYeah,, that’s fantastic. All right? So I’ll bring it back into more I’ll say maybe a more Americanized Pedestrian Baseline issues. So and and you know this is something that I’ll say we as ah as a company will struggle with because. Look the restaurants they’ve they’ve had tough times they’ve struggled all right? So There’s a lot of tired restaurants out there. There’s a lot of restaurants that can use a makeover or refresh but it costs money right? and they’re just worried about turnover they want to get butts and seats they want to make you know what’s their daily check and all that kind of thing you know we know you know I know the design marketing advertising. All that stuff refreshing The the the experience will make them money. But how do you convince? a restaurant owner to take that leap. 18:38.30BenWell, you know when we work with with global brands I Always say the same Um, you know Restroom design is an investment is not a cost right? And um, what we always try is to you know, make sure that we make a proof of concept. What we call an Alpha Prototype or Beta. Before actually rolling it out whether that’s corporate stores or franchises stores so you can really measure things right because to your point we could go to a conference and present a beautiful new design and say oh this is going to be great for your sales all right? What’s that right? So What we always try to do is make sure that we’re not only delivering on the high quality of the design. 19:07.19vigorbrandingUm. 19:13.74BenBut also saying look these are the numbers. This is the increase of footfall this is the increase of you know intent to return. This is the increase of intent to recommend. There’s certain part of that that we could do upfront now we do you know? gen ai we have Oculos glasses we have immersive experiences and focus groups, etc, etc. But ultimately the proof is in the pudding so that would be my recommendation really, you know, making sure that for example, when we do a remodel make sure that you take a store that is an existing store rather than create a new design and and and a new build because then you can really measure the pre and post but always talk. 19:44.99vigorbrandingCorrect. 19:50.40BenAbout design or marketing as an investment not about a cost. 19:51.78vigorbrandingAlways right? and it truly is I said a lot of people look at this is like a paying taxes. You know you have to do it. You don’t want to do it. But it’s It’s truly if it’s not getting your return. You shouldn’t do it. So I mean that’s that’s really the bottom line there. What do you think? what? what are most restaurants do wrong when they when they when it comes to design. 20:03.93BenUm, yeah. 20:10.78BenUm I think in general and I’ve talked to the us I guess most of your audience is us based um one of the things that we see especially coming from Asia or from Europe is you know real estate has been extremely expensive outside of the us land used to be cheap in the Us. 20:14.40vigorbrandingMe. 20:27.14BenAh, labor you know I live in Sweden it’s twenty Eight bucks minimum wage. It’s sort of like when people are complaining about 50 or 20 in the us like I keep it keep them coming send them over I’ll sign them up. Um, so not that we come from the future but we have been exposed to these challenges before in terms of inflation high labor. 20:30.14vigorbrandingI for compared? Yeah yeah. 20:47.70BenAh, lack of skill labor. You know capex increasest etc so a couple of things you know, First of all the understanding of efficiency in a footprint. That’s 1 thing that we see a lot in the us humongous kitchens you know kitchens where you know ah 40% of the restroom footprint is back of the house. 21:00.15vigorbrandingUm, you know. 21:06.65BenYou know that is only cost doesn’t generate any revenue. How do you make sure that you get back to a 25% back of the house versus 40 so the back of the house. Um, operating model is something that is often not seen by designers. So. It’s like a black box. You know? Okay, we’ll design a front of the house and then somebody. Ah, maybe even a kitchen consultant. You know comes in and you know guess what their job is to sell you equipment. So you’re going to end up with a ferrari off a kitchen with a lot of space and a lot of equipment. Well, you don’t make money there you make money in the front of the house. So that’s 1 thing. The second thing is the. 21:30.26vigorbrandingRight. 21:36.56vigorbrandingRight. 21:43.11BenUm, Availability of cheap labor right? You know a lot of tip-grade states etc so there has been really an incentive to um work from an efficiency perspective in the restaurant environment whether that’s layout. You know how many steps you take. 21:55.88vigorbrandingAnd. 21:57.78BenYou know, ah time in motion. So there’s a lot of time motion study done in the back of the house but not a lot to the front of the houses you know where are the station’s position. All those things that they think oh, it’s not important. Well it’s 10 seconds here 20 seconds there you know you go back and punch it into the pos. You don’t have handhelds so the whole. Um. Efficiency component that we’ve seen overseas is something that we’re finally now you know, being able to bring to the us because labor scars you know and salaries are going up, Etc, etc. So um, it’s it’s not reinventing the wheel. What I do think that we can do is we can take best practices and global learnings and actually apply them to the us rather to than to have to invent everything from scratch. 22:40.83vigorbrandingThat’s great. Yeah, and you you bring a global perspective to all this which is really ah, it’s an incredible ah advantage candidly. So So talk about talk about your lab a little bit I mean in my company. Anybody you talk to that works in in our agencies. They know our core values are respect. Innovation and passion. You got to be excited about what you do and innovation is is one of core values. We. We’re always coming up with new ideas talk about the lab because I think that’s a brilliant concept. 23:06.20BenYeah, well yeah, it’s it’s a fun story right? You know one of the talent we work with the world’s biggest brands right? and when you know I remember back in the days we were talking about Ai and automation. They said hey hey then slow down we are implementing wi-fi like. Okay, okay now I know where where I have to put the threshold. Um, it was sort of hard to push these global brands to really innovate. So we came up with the idea to say why don’t we put our money where our mouth is why don’t we set up a restaurant that we can use as a lab. 23:40.93vigorbrandingNo no. 23:42.98BenAnd rather than become the traditional consultant where you come and say oh you should do this or I believe you should do that we could actually come and say look. We’ll try this and these are the results. This worked this didn’t work right? So we become peers instead of consultants. So we said let’s open up a restaurant. We decided to open it up in Stockholm you know second highest. Ah, labor market in the world. So you know either, you’re efficient or you die we decided to only hire people that have never worked in a restaurant right? to make sure that the efficiency was in the model in the equipment in the layout etc and then really pack this with all sorts of sensors that and you can imagine. 24:04.50vigorbrandingYeah, exactly you go broke. Um, first. 24:21.56BenBut everything happens without the guest knowing so the guests don’t know this is a lab um and not only was it extremely successful from a learning perspective in terms of you know the initial objectives what we did not expect is that we were going to make so much money. Actually becoming operators. So what was 1 restaurant became 3 sore the 3 biggest citizens of Sweden we started franticing a year ago we’re now in 10 countries. We’re going into the us now. So it’s really becoming a global brand. We get 73 sites in the pipeline. 24:36.96vigorbrandingHidden. 24:48.36vigorbrandingIt’s awesome. 24:52.90BenSo now I have to balance out the the you know design consultant hat and the operator hat but it also it’s a great way of testing things in different markets. You know we are in Saudi Arabia and we’re opening in Mexico and Buenosiris and we were in madrid and we’re in Belgium and we’re now opening in Nashville. So. 24:56.88vigorbrandingAh, yeah. 25:05.10vigorbrandingUm. 25:08.80BenYou know, understanding how those different Technologies Components efficiencies operate in different markets. It’s very very valuable for us beside you know the fact that we’re building our own global brand which is extremely fun. 25:21.90vigorbrandingYeah, well you better be careful, you might have a conflict. You’ll be like building me oh we’re across the street from you guys in Madrid you’ll lose the ah opportunity to redesign him. Yeah, that’s fantastic. That’s so cool I love it. 25:30.44BenAh, we’ll invite you. We’ll invite you to come over. Don’t worry. 25:38.40vigorbrandingSo when it comes to those big ah chains who’s doing a good job like who who ah pick on American Brand If you wouldn’t mind. 25:45.54BenUm, I mean this, there’s quite a few and and in different ways I would say you know I think um, you know in the us I’m a big fan of Bartacco. Um, the way they not only create experience embrace technology or very early with you know, tech adoption I think they great did a great job in delivering the experience I believe there their sort of model is a day at the beach you work into the restaurant and it’s really it transports you somewhere you know to to. 25:58.17vigorbrandingUm. 26:17.16BenYou know a cardboard whatever that is um but also from a you know training perspective I like both the but back of the house and and the front of the house guest experience. That’s a brand that I really like um I think you know and pizza. We did a great job with them and they had a great run and you know. 26:18.95vigorbrandingUm. 26:31.56vigorbrandingUm, okay. 26:35.63BenUnfortunately very leveraged so when interest rates go up. They’re having a harder time. Um, it’s not an american brand but 1 of my favorites. It’s Jo the jews you’ll see it in some of the american cities extraordinary way of turning. 26:46.76vigorbrandingUm. 26:50.58BenA potentially boring job like serving coffee and juices into being something really really cool. You know and they hire these good looking guys now they have women as well because they’ve gone too big but they really said you know they did something that nobody else had done before. Their capex is extremely low. You know both in terms of equipment and the fphony and they really deliver on a great great experience and I think from a marketing perspective. Undoubtedly they they do something really really interesting. So for for the those listening that haven’t seen it is one of my to go brands for a number of reasons both from operational simplicity efficiency. You know can run one of those those restaurants with 2 team members. Um and delivering a really good experience whether that’s a kiosk in an airport. Or an extra large dining room with full service and they’ve been able to capture you know coffee juices and food in 1 which is something that Starbucks has struggled with for years and I can go on and on but you know yeah, ah. 27:50.75vigorbrandingThat’s that’s awesome. So yeah, you know believe me this good this this Well I could talk to you for hours I am just absolutely I Love what I’ve seen Love what I hear it’s ah it’s just so easy to ignore. Ah good design. Ah, whether it’s you know the the actual architectural design whether it’s the design of the of the brand. It’s so easy to it’s not well. It’s easy to ignore it. But boy you know it when you see it and I think that’s the thing. It’s kind of one of those things you really know it when you see it and when you feel it and that’s that’s what’s going to be successful, especially with people wanting to go back to that experience. So who what’s what’s up What if you can be honest, What’s ah, what’s a larger you know company. That’s not doing a great job in your opinion. 28:32.35BenWell I think if if I go back to my comment people 4 about the brands that tried to be everything to everyone. You know, think of all the legacy bar and grill brands in the us you know there’s a bunch of them. Um, you know, just adding menu items adding menu items. Ah. 28:44.92vigorbrandingUm. 28:49.21BenTry to be lunch dinner. All locations. Um, you know their audience is literally dying right? Its you know you you don’t see any young people going in there I think that’s really a struggle in a world that is coming more and more specialized more and more on a occasion based. Um, those brand really need to rethink I read that you know Tgi Fridays was actually just sold last week to one of their Uk franchisees. You know that whole category is is a category that’s really suffering and that really need to you know, take care of their guest experience. 29:10.99vigorbrandingFrom. 29:23.44BenAnd Beyond that who are they you know it’s It’s been. It’s lost their soul a little bit so there’s a lot of work to be done there but they have a scale and an audience that also you know make it possible to make them come to life again. 29:23.87vigorbrandingRight. 29:38.45vigorbrandingThat’s that’s great. That’s a really good insight all right? So we’ll play I’m gonna play like a little game here’s like what’s worse and I don’t think there’s any good answers here. So but it’d be. It’d be great just to hear you you fill in the gaps here as far as ah, your your points of view on these. 29:42.96BenYeah, quick tip. Ah. 29:49.78BenAnd. 29:49.90vigorbrandingSo so what is worse lots of cluttered I relevantt decorations speaking of I’ll say Fridays I shouldn’t say that but I I will or a bad floor plan. Yeah. 29:58.99BenA bad flowprint all day long. Yeah I think the bad flow Brand will impact on your pnl. Um, you know you’re going. Ah, you’re going to. You know have a higher labor cost, etc. And. Um, you know you know it’s going to impact on the guest experience. So Um I will go with that. 30:13.91vigorbrandingAll right, all right? What’s worse an exposed service area or bathroom doors that only open in. 30:20.49BenExposed service area I think the the bathroom doors that only open in it’s something that you can live with it might be annoying but when you’re having your your dinner experience and see the service area and they are never pretty. That’s something that you’ll remember. 30:34.20vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, especially if they’re busy right. 30:39.89BenI’ve I’ve never seen a guest get back and get back to me say you know what? hey Michael I went to this restaurant and the bathroom doors opened inwards I’ll not never come back again. You know. 30:47.98vigorbrandingAh, but they will see the mess that’s in the service area that’s for sure all right? What’s worse bad lighting or bad carpeting. 30:55.12BenA bad lighting all day long I’m a lighting freak I think lighting and acoustics are the 2 things that designers often overlook and they’re not well taught and in design schools and when you do value engineering. 31:09.51vigorbrandingUm. 31:12.37BenIs the first thing people cut because you don’t see it on the on the layouts. You don’t see it on the renderings but I would go with bed lighting all day long. 31:15.17vigorbrandingYeah, it’s right? That’s great and if you have good lighting then you will be able see the bad carpet without the good lighting. You know you get the carpet you can get away with it. So all right? What’s worse low grade tables and shares or poor menu design. 31:32.53BenAh, low grade tables I would go I think it’s you know and I’ll connect it to the to the carpet comment before the things you touch the cutlery the table the chair the the glass where the plate where those are the most important things. 31:38.10vigorbrandingSo. 31:49.27BenWhat’s on the floor. What’s on the ceiling. What’s on the walls is not as important. So if what you touch is Conveys The the sense of quality. Um, that’s really very very important to me. 31:58.92vigorbrandingUm, all right? So a few years ago ah you talked about we talked about so everything’s Instagram right? Everything’s taking pictures and all all the social media but you talked about the most instagramed restrooms talking about the doors in the United States talk about what made the bathroom so photogenic. 32:18.90BenYeah, so so we actually opened one of our labs in in Los Angeles bad timing November Twenty nineteen so it’s not there anymore, but we were gaining one Instagram follower per second when we opened. Um. We won the best restaurantroom design of the year award voted by consumers by edola and the second best bar in America and what we did um is that we really wanted to create ah just an amazing restaurant restroom experience. So we you know bought this. Onyx handsinks that were lit from from underneath and it had like 40 candles under the mirror and you know greenery and art. You know, really expensive art in the restroom and what really made the difference is that on the mirror and I hope. I’m not going too far politically correct. It said you look fucking beautiful and there wasn’t a person going into that restroom that did not take a picture of you look fucking, beautiful and shared it in social media. So not a recipe for every brand. 33:11.46vigorbrandingUm, that’s right, That’s fantastic. That’s great. Yeah. 33:25.83BenBut ah, you know, just just make sure you create something memorable and don’t underestimate the power of restrooms because when you have a clean, well lit nicely designed restroom that smells great that has you know a really good soap. That really you know makes an impression on what you think the kitchen’s going to be and what you think the rest of the experience going to be. 33:48.84vigorbrandingThat’s great I need one of those those mirrors because I need all positive reinforcement I can get you know and you know it’s funny. You say that but I will say you know the the the hermitage ah hotel in Nashville downstairs next to the bar. The restroom is incredible. And I remember that and I’m not. You know that’s something I will always remember it doesn’t have anything that gives me any positive reinforcement but it was just incredible. Fact there was a sign outside it said ladies knock before coming in to take pictures which I was like why would that be here and I went inside I was like amazing, absolutely amazing. So. Anyway I think a good bathroom’s fantastic and it’s ah it’s important. So what? What’s the future look like for restaurant design I mean what’s trending what? what? what might might meet that what might we start seeing more often. 34:36.61BenSo when it comes to russian design and again maybe I’m not the prototypical designers only thinking of you know the fabrics and the colors and the textures it’s it’s really operational efficiency to me. Um, both in the back of the house and the front of the house. That’s really coming big time. It comes to sensors implementation of technology friction less ordering, etc etc. So that’s something that we’ll see and I can talk for hours about bad efficiency parts specifically in the back of the house etc. The second part that we are going to see is a lot more. Um, artificial intelligence coming in. You know at livid we have now you know a 5 team strong Ai team just because Ai it’s going to be better than humans at a lot of the repetitives that task right? You know whether that’s comp set analysis restaurant layouts you know optimization of spaces etc so there’s a lot of that. 35:22.61vigorbrandingUm. 35:30.42BenThat’s coming into the design space. Ah, but um, there’s a lot of talk about those things but I do think that you know where we started this conversation in terms of the experience the human touch. That’s really going to. Be here for a while you know machines will not be able to do those things for us at least in the foreseeable future. So I think we need to be aware of the tools that we can use as designers but really make sure. To understand where do we add value like like we were saying in terms of understanding trends in 1 market into the other etc etc. That’s something that we see the other I trend that I’m going to see and I’m going to speak specifically to the us is offshoring so you know since the pandemic. Capex construction costs are up what thirty forty percent there depending on states. Um, it’s really becoming hard to get the return of investment capital with the capex that restaurants are now running at it’s really are you know you can make the p and l work. But how are you know you know, get that that investment back. So. 36:19.57vigorbrandingThe money. 36:37.84Ben1 thing that we’re doing for mini brands is actually almost building the restaurants offsite. So this la restaurant that I mentioned you know we bidded it out in California bids came in between 3.4 3 point $2000000 we ended up building it for one point 3 36:49.54vigorbrandingBut. 36:53.81BenSo basically we bought all the pieces from China we bought them from Europe we assembled the restaurant in a warehouse in Spain we shipped it to la we sent an install crew and the rest was up and running in seventeen days that sort of brands becoming. 37:00.17vigorbrandingWow. 37:11.22BenUm, sourcing companies and you know installation companies. We’re now working with you know, quite a few large Us chains in making modular designs and concepts overseas right? You might do it in Mexico you might do it in China you might do it in Eastern Europe just to make sure that if there’s a tariff coming in 1 country you will have you know a plan b but that’s something that we’re going to see more and more because the increase of labor and the increase of construction cost is hitting the us market really really strong. 37:43.70vigorbrandingIt’s incredible and I mean it’s amazing that you can actually build it ship it assemble it cheaper than you can build it on site That’s ah, that’s that’s a shame actually. 37:49.80BenYeah, plus the fact that hey I’m half swedish so we have Ikea in our blood but but the fact that you’re never going to get the quality that you get in a factory in a nice environment. You know where you work in. 37:56.75vigorbrandingAh, of course of course. 38:05.42BenYou know a restaurant environment with local workers that have never done that brand or that assembly before they have to learn every time. So just that scalability this you know is not as easy for 1 ne-off concept or for small brand. But if you are starting to get regional I Always say you know if you. If your ambition is to get beyond 10 or 15 Brands. You should really start looking at it. 38:23.71vigorbrandingYeah, totally makes sense and you know it’s funny. You brought up Ikea I wasn’t going to bring that up I was going to try to avoid this whole conversation. But it is in a weird sort of way. It’s a microcosm of like what we’re talking about and what you do I mean right? The design was impeccable. The user experience second to none and I’m going back to like 19 38:28.40BenMe. 38:41.94vigorbrandingI don’t know 80 when I first was exposed to it I walked in to a store. It’s like this is just brilliant. Everything about it was brilliant I wanted I wanted to buy everything there I wanted to buy the expensive stuff. Nothing was super expensive I wanted to buy the the inexpensive I needed I all of a sudden needed things I never know I knew I needed just because the design was so impeccable and then of course. 38:48.29BenUm. 38:50.67BenOh. 38:58.49BenCount. 39:01.90vigorbrandingThe the user experience as you walk through and the layout and the way they showed everything comes back to design and experience and um. 39:03.50BenAnd we’ve actually just been engaged to I think we’re already delivered it the the future f and b experience of Ikea globally we’ve done it that limitd so there’s we’re we’re closing the circle. 39:14.53vigorbrandingFantastic. That’s awesome, Very Cool. We’re actually I’m talking to them about a project right Now. So I’m excited about it. We’ll see where it goes but what? ah I’ve always been ah, just fascinated by the brand. It’s brilliant and it’s it stands for I think a lot of things that. I’ll say important to me personally just the whole experience to design. Ah the the user experience. Everything about it is just really Impeccable. So hey I could talk to you for hours. But here I have one last question that I ask everybody every time for you. This will be maybe very difficult because you just literally. Ah you know your tires barely touch ground and you’re off somewhere else. So. If You had 1 final meal. What would you eat where and why. 39:55.48BenOh that’s a tough one. Um, one final meal. So um, um, ah, no, no, it’s not going to be bad. Yeah no, so it has to be a social meal. What I would do I would cook ba. Yeah. 40:01.87vigorbrandingUm, it can’t be the swedish meatballs that Ikea either. Yeah. 40:10.76BenThink it’s a very social meal because you cook it with friends. You know you stand around it. It’s our version of the barbecue you stand around it and cook it together I will have it with friends and family. You know, ah last week we had some friends over and you know my stomach hurt from from laughs. 40:10.87vigorbrandingUm, ah, nice. Yeah yep. 40:26.19vigorbrandingAwesome. 40:28.20BenThat’s really yeah, you know the social component of eating I think is the important thing. Ah more so than than what you actually eat but that would be um, you know I would eat a baya ah together with friends and family have a good laugh. And it could be anywhere in the world. 40:47.19vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. Well um, like I said I’m heading to Madrid here in two weeks so I’m really excited about the the payeea I’m sure that’ll be fantastic and I can’t thank you enough I do want to do this again. I mean I have a million more questions I could we got to dove into so many of these areas so much deeper. Phenomenal, fantastic congratulations on all your success and and thank you very much. You got it all right man talk soon. 41:05.14BenThank you very much thanks for having Michael look forward to stay touch have a good one. Cheers. 

Fransmart is a global leader in franchise development. For over 20 years, they've excelled at turning emerging concepts into national and global brands. Led by company founder Dan Rowe, Fransmart is known throughout the franchising community for spotting and growing brands like Five Guys Burgers & Fries and Qdoba Mexican Grill, from single unit businesses to the powerhouse chains they are today. Fransmart has built restaurants in all of the top 150 media markets in North America. Fransmart's success stories include Five Guys, Qdoba Mexican Grill and Halal Guys – a franchise that started from a success food cart in New York City. Today, Halal Guys is the most successful Middle Eastern restaurant in America. Dan's success stems from his knowledge of each market and the potential franchisees in each market. With that knowledge, he can often predict whether a restaurant will find franchisees and be successful. The biggest mistake a lot of franchisees make is picking the wrong brand to invest in. Another mistake franchisees make is not following the system put in place by the brand they're investing in.  QUOTES “A good franchisee wants to follow somebody else's system. A bad franchisee buys a franchise and tries to do everything different.” (Dan)  “In every market, we know where the best operators are, we know where the best intersections are, where the best projects are, the best architects, contractors, food distributors, so we just sort of developed this knack for understanding the best way to do everything in these markets.” (Dan) “I want to be relentless about getting the right site (for a new restaurant). For any concept, there's 10 or 15 or 20 potential sites. But there's really only three or four first sites. You have to be very careful when you're building a brand in a brand new market. There's something very strategic about using real estate and real estate's role in marketing.” (Dan) “You have to be really good at knowing exactly where your bullseye's are and coming up with some logic around what order you should be growing.” (Dan) “You have staff for the sales you want and you have to staff for the company you're trying to build.” (Dan) “I've never seen a concept that I can't figure out how to drive sales and lower costs.” (Dan)  TRANSCRIPT 00:00.00vigorbrandingHello if you’re a restaurant looking to become an an international restaurant chain or if you’re um, you know I’m gonna start over I’m sorry it’s kind of fumble that all just yeah, hello if you’re a restaurant looking to become an international restaurant chain or if you’re an entrepreneur who wants to own a franchise today’s episode is for you. My guest is Dan Rowe he’s the Ceo and founder of fransmart and he takes emerging restaurant concepts and turns them into national and international franchises. He’s been called the chainmakerr and we’re gonna talk to him today about his process. Dan. Thank you so much for joining us. 00:32.74dan_fransmart_comUm, yeah, thanks, thanks for having me. 00:36.52vigorbrandingWell let’s just jump right in. Let’s start with Fransmart tell me a little bit about it How you started maybe a little bit about your history and where you got your start. 00:44.96dan_fransmart_comsure sure I I started washing dishes and cooking got into technology if id never went to college so barelegged out of high school. So I but I was lucky enough when I was like nineteen eighteen and a half nineteen for about 5 years I got into technology. Worked for a guy that grew software companies made some money and what do I do go right back in the restaurant business I bought a franchise of a bagel bakery and it was a 6 unit bagel chain in Washington d c I lived in California the idea originally was to bring the franchise to California ah, because there’s no bagel shops near me. And I went into business with a buddy mine and his wife and they wanted to move to Denver so we opened up our first franchise in Denver I had negotiated a deal I said hey if we’re successful with this I want to also do your franchising and because I’m proving you outside of Dc where all your stores are. We were very successful and I was 23 I think he was 25 enty five or 26 and we were more successful than most of the stores that they had in Dc so we did their franchise development and we grew them from 6 stores to around 200 in about 4 years sold the company. 01:51.64vigorbrandingWow. 01:57.90dan_fransmart_com1 of my shops in Denver was across from the first Chipotle we tried to get him to franchise. He wasn’t interest in he did just fine without us but somebody who copied him was ah Kudoba Kudoba mexican so we approached Kudoba we got involved with Kedoba when they were only open a couple months. 01:59.35vigorbrandingI. 02:13.86dan_fransmart_comHelped him put together the whole franchise program grew that to think about 100 open and few hundred in development sold that to Jack in the box and at that point I had grown 2 companies at a time as individual, you know, like 2 different companies at a time under 2 different companies. And then I said it was 2000. Everything was a.com back then and I said you know what I’m going to I’m going to start a new company instead of growing one brand at a time I’m going to grow a portfolio at a time so we started fransmart. 02:45.15vigorbrandingThat’s brilliant Now you know, ah and talking with you I’ve learned a couple things number one I did 2 work in the restaurant first and I believe wholeheartedly that everyone should start out working a restaurant. You’ve got to take orders. You’ve got to get things Done. You have to execute you have to talk to people by and large. You have to get to know how to handle problems I mean there’s a whole lot of education that happens in a restaurant doesn’t it. The other thing I It’s very humbling. Ah, that’s right, That’s absolutely right? The other thing I will say is I also did not. 03:04.41dan_fransmart_comYeah, yeah, yeah, it’s It’s also humiliating and it’s humbling and it’s ah it’s good. It’s good to see why you should treat people better. 03:17.44vigorbrandingGo to college I I was a creative guy so I just like thought well hell I’m really smart at doing these big ideas and creating stuff I don’t need to go school so I didn’t and you know at the end of the day. It’s it’s kind of funny because 1 time my daughter was asked in school like hey do your parents ever have any sayings you know like you know what? what are they known for saying and. 03:23.23dan_fransmart_comYeah. 03:34.41vigorbrandingMy my daughter raised your hands and my dad said C students run the world so that was me I was just like yeah an underachiever. But just I worked really hard. So anyway, um so look with frasmar. Essentially you take this guesswork out of franchising right? You’re connecting entrepreneurs. 03:36.80dan_fransmart_comYeah. 03:51.90vigorbrandingAh, the one to get into the restaurant ownership business with emerging restaurants and I mean so you’re’re, you’re finding great ideas or you have these great ideas. You’re finding people that that are business people and maybe good operators but also teaching them how to operate um you know So what? at the end of the day. What makes a good franchisee. 04:05.99dan_fransmart_comA good franchisee wants to follow somebody else’s system a bad franchisee buys a franchise and then tries to do everything different or or argues with the the company. But yeah I mean franspart’s main business were franchise development company. We have big picture vision. So like with 5 guys. You know we didn’t invent burgers. We just saw a micro niche of you know, fresh burgers and nobody really owned that segment we saw burger King Wendy’s Mcdonald’s but nobody was really doing high quality. Um chefy food and. So 5 guys was in Dc they were near us. They won these awards all the time for best burgers. They had a really really good hamburger. It was more expensive than the other guys. Whatever but they had 4 units and I just said you know what? I’ve already grown you know mexican chain a bagel chain all across the country There’s nobody else doing this in any other market around the country and so our playbook is basically become we. We’ve built restaurants and all the top hundred and fifty biggest media markets in North america so New York’s the biggest something around Savannah Georgia or something like that is somewhere around one fifty 05:12.95vigorbrandingMe. 05:20.00dan_fransmart_comAnd in in every market we know who the best operators are we know where the best intersections are the best projects are the best architects contractors food distributors and so we’ve just sort of developed this knack for understanding the best known way to do everything in every one of these markets and so yeah, we did it with 5 guys. We. You know, wound up growing those guys I think we grew them from 6 4 4 locations to about 100 open a few hundred in development we sold. They’re like 2000 stores. Um, we did with halal guys. So here’s another thing like my premise was gosh. There’s a billion and a half muslims in the world. And when I go to Chipotle or Starbucks I’d ask my wife like do you know any muslim actors or singers or apparel companies or tech companies or car companies or food brands. There’s a no no no no no I’m like well wait a minute There’s a the biggest demographic population in the world and there’s no brand. 06:10.71vigorbrandingA. 06:16.28dan_fransmart_comAnd so and we were opening american brands over in the Middle East and so you know most of our franchisees are super wealthy. Many of them are royal family and the first night they gee whiz you with their homes and just the way that they live. Second day they’re like what do you want to do and I said I want to go get street food and they would take you to some of this amazing amazing middle eastern street food and I tell myself I’m like somebody’s going to figure out how to build a brand out of this and so we did with the halal guys. Ah, we hal. All guys was a cart in New York City for 25 years They had 3 carts in the city. Not even a food truck just a cart but they made really good kind of chicken or gyro over rice with this white sauce and. 06:47.34vigorbrandingUm, yeah. 07:00.43dan_fransmart_comAnd people stood in line for it and I’m like okay here we go so I found that same thing same playbook biggest 150 media markets. Best franchise operators you know exactly where to put them so anyone I mean sometimes these locations anybody could succeed there. 07:16.49vigorbrandingYeah. 07:16.65dan_fransmart_comBut that’s part of the hack. That’s part of the hack is is going into these markets and we’d pick great operators I remember the the 2 corporate stores that we built in New York City both did like ridiculous volume like 2 times what a 5 guys in the same location would do because we picked the right site. 07:34.20vigorbrandingHe. 07:36.18dan_fransmart_comThe first franchisee in Chicago opened up to like $80000 a week or some weird number the first California in first the first California store that we opened up clear across the country did over 100 grand it’s first week in sales. So. 07:48.67vigorbrandingWell. 07:51.51dan_fransmart_comYou take a good concept you package it right? and then you just have to build the right teams that can handle the volume pick the right locations and but that’s our playbook. We just keep doing it over and over. 08:01.41vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic That makes it mean it’s awesome and so like I have to ask like so the Halal guys I mean I’ve eaten it I mean I know know the carts I know that I know the whole deal Did you just like walk up there one day and say hey guys I’d like to talk to you about an idea I have. 08:12.41dan_fransmart_comSo they didn’t even have a website they didn’t have a website. They didn’t have a social media page. They had a fan page So a fan had created what I thought was the website. It wasn’t a website it was called. 08:21.50vigorbrandingScott. 08:26.38dan_fransmart_comFifty third and 6 are dot com or whatever it was but it was a fan page and I so and I basically emailed and they said hey I’ve done this and this and this and this and I want to do middle eastern and the guy’s like hey ah I don’t actually own it I’m just creating a fan page because I love these guys I’m like can you introduce me to them and they introduce me to him. 08:42.85vigorbrandingWow. 08:46.36dan_fransmart_comBut it was funny I’ll never forget when I went to go meet him I’m like hey I’m the guy that did 5 guys in qdoba and they’re like what’s that like they don’t know these were super religious muslim. They come to America looking for the american dream I mean. 08:53.20vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah. 09:01.88dan_fransmart_comAwesome founders, amazing! Beautiful people, great people. They came to America look they all had advanced degrees came here looking to the american dream and America basically shut the door and they started off driving cabs and they just you know, kind of worked really hard and then they opened a street cart. Was originally a hot dog cart that that they converted to halal food and they would use it as a way to sort of give people jobs like bring family members and friends over here and give them jobs and they had a couple of these carts but it’s like in the beginning when I was first trying to tell them. Oh I’ve got this big vision I want to go do all this stuff. 09:25.29vigorbrandingMay he. 09:36.38vigorbrandingYeah. 09:36.82dan_fransmart_comThey’re like what are you talking about and you know because they they just weren’t they didn’t realize they didn’t see what I saw and they and they were not taken at all with my background they could care less. Yeah. 09:44.63vigorbrandingWell, and yeah, they they had to start with they start with probably nothing right? So to get the cart and be able to get a corner probably was like they felt like they had they’d achieved a you know a lot which they had but they had no idea with with the capacity of that you could bring them like in in the locations and everything. 09:57.46dan_fransmart_comNo no and and and they didn’t care they frankly they said we don’t want to open what they didn’t want to do was be embarrassed, be ashamed. They’re like very prideful of what they do. It’s funny when you talk to the owners. They still talk about they could talk for. 10:03.10vigorbrandingWow. 10:15.46dan_fransmart_com10 minutes just about this plate of food and how to make that plate of food perfect and it’s like that’s why they have those long lines right? So like a guy like me I’m not the reason that they’re successful. They’re successful because they care about that plate of food tasting the way it tastes. 10:15.96vigorbrandingHe. Yeah. 10:30.31dan_fransmart_comYou know my job is not to screw it up but that it took a year from the time I first met him to the time that they finally said let’s go and it was mainly me convincing them that I wasn’t going to screw it up like this is a way that they’re feeding their family. They’re very proud of what they built and even though they didn’t have social media or whatever everybody knew what it was it was just 10:39.27vigorbrandingMy home. 10:49.71dan_fransmart_comThere’s 8000000 carts in the city and 3 of them have long long like absurdly long lines and they just didn’t want me to screw that up. So yeah. 10:55.79vigorbrandingUm, so I mean for us I mean you know we we do marketing and advertising so we focus on the restaurant segment with vigor and like they they took off is it because I kind of think it might be but. Because of the long lines in New York because of the word of mouth. Do you think it was just one of those things once they start getting locations people just kind of knew of it already because they had been exposed to it from the street or or is it like a lot of word of mouth or how do you think the explosion happened. 11:17.40dan_fransmart_comUm, well well yeah I mean well to take a step back a million people tried to knock him off none of them have none of a have a million people when this thing started to fly everybody who’s put the word halal. 11:26.40vigorbrandingHe wow. 11:35.29dan_fransmart_comOn their cart in their storefront or whatever when when I started franchising this. There was all these metoo copycats. None of them are around and it’s because they’re not authentic and they didn’t do the right thing but no, it took off what I did is the way I marketed it to people outside of New York was funny. The first few franchisees. 11:36.52vigorbrandingYep. 11:42.10vigorbrandingWow. 11:53.96vigorbrandingIn here. 11:54.63dan_fransmart_comKnew it from New York like when they would come to New York they would go there and so like my Chicago franchisee my vegas franchise or my um southern cow in my Houston franchisees even my Dc franchisee they they every time they went up to New York they went there so the minute that they found out we were franchising they they bought it. Everybody else? What? what? What would happen is we would just market pictures of the line so initially it was lines of the cart and so people would be like what is roe babbling on about and it’s like this long line would at least stop them to get them to look you know at the next line or at the next page. 12:17.41vigorbrandingHere here. 12:31.38dan_fransmart_comAnd then as soon as the first couple stores opened this the Southern California store doing 100 grandits first week that line looked like ah I mean it was Quarter mile long and so like even the news was taking pictures of it. So all I did is reposted what the news because. 12:41.45vigorbrandingA. 12:48.90vigorbrandingSure no doubt. 12:49.70dan_fransmart_comYou know it’s also a credibility technique. It’s like if I if I post a long long line people like yeah if the news posts it. It seems more credible. So yeah, we we just. In the beginning we would we kind of did that I didn’t want to explain with a lot of words what the concept was or what I thought it could be I just wanted to show long lines and then that would get people to come see it. Try it eat it and then you meet the owners and you just know like this this we had. 13:12.92vigorbrandingYeah, it’s authentic. 13:16.35dan_fransmart_comAlmost everybody who came in for Discovery day wanted a franchise but they wouldn’t approve him. They were very picky about who they let in I mean it’s funny. We had a guy that came in and the minute that they that they gave in the indication they weren’t going to run the place right? or hire the right team out like they would even get up and leave the meeting and um. 13:28.82vigorbrandingE well. 13:35.74dan_fransmart_comAnd then we even had a guy come in I’ll never forget it. He goes does the meat really have to be halal does it have to be halal because halal food’s more expensive and and I’ll never forget it like we’re all looking at each other like did he just say that and he did and it’s like meeting was over guy flew clear across the country for the meeting and within 8 minutes the meeting was over. 13:43.57vigorbrandingYeah. He had done. 13:55.41dan_fransmart_comAnd so yeah, it was but it’s a funny story but it’s’s ah I mean it’s such a great concept. It’s just a great concept. You think about billion and a half people no brands. It’s really the largest I mean certainly the largest restaurant chain MiddleEastern restaurant chain in North America 14:00.40vigorbrandingGood. 14:12.54vigorbrandingYeah. 14:12.74dan_fransmart_comBut now we’re open in London we’re open in Korea we’re open. You know we’re we’re we’re growing. So my goal with that and you know also when I started I’ll never forget when I first started growing the company. We got an interview with 1 of the big New York papers and I said this is going to and we only had carts and in. I said this is Goingnna be the biggest middle eastern brand in the world. The biggest muslim brand the biggest halal brand blah bla blah bla blah and the lady was laughing on the phone and I’m like what are you laughing about she was Dan They have carts and I’m like I know but I see something bigger so I’m not always right? But in halauge’s case I was. 14:35.62vigorbrandingIn. 14:43.11vigorbrandingYep, that’s fantastic. Well I love your line I’ve heard you say it many times that you let people vote people vote with their wallets right? So you followed the line that’s bright I mean ah and your marketing was smart too I mean using the the news and all that and showing the lines I mean that’s the proof and that’s ah. 14:50.15dan_fransmart_comYeah, yeah, yeah. 15:00.48vigorbrandingThat’s masterful marketing and so that that brings me to sort of another question because it’s really an interesting ah like I’m really interested in what you do I mean you find these great products and these great brands you you look at the lines you say?? Okay, this is. There’s ah, there’s some white space in the ah in this in the restaurant world for this. This can be the next big thing. But then there’s also ah you need to know a fair amount about real estate right? There’s certain you just said. There’s some real estate that you could put anything in there I’m sure that’s not true, but probably any of your products you could put in there and they’d be successful. But then there’s also the the franchisees people want to own a restaurant or maybe Master franchise. These folks that have like a. You know they have a serious office and they own a bunch of different brands in some cases talk about like the whole thing coming together that whole thing coming together. Well just you have these the master franchisees right? So you got to find them then there’s the the actual then there’s the real estate part right. 15:37.93dan_fransmart_comYeah. Wait wait which part. Um, yeah, yeah, oh um, yeah, so for me I always start with the end in mind I I see a chain for what it can be 10 years down the road and that in that tells me the. 15:52.73vigorbrandingAnd then there’s also sort of the restaurant part. How does that all work together. 16:07.16dan_fransmart_comYou know the 150 biggest markets in North America US and canada canada most of the canadian markets behave like us. So I always talk about North America but um and then certain international markets like we’ve sold tons and tons and tons of deals internationally so like I already know where this is going to go. 16:22.24vigorbrandingA. 16:24.47dan_fransmart_comI Already know the franchisees in those markets and so I know which ones are going to like the brand and why and how I have to package or maybe I have to cook it a little longer before I show it to a certain guy like I already kind of know that whenever I take on a brand. The most important thing. 16:38.66vigorbrandingNate. 16:40.62dan_fransmart_comWhen I get a new brand because I’m getting them at a very early very early stage. They’re still hair on them. They’re still rough around the edges. They still don’t know what they don’t know 5 guys didn’t have pos systems for example, like the whole all guys didn’t have dead carts right? They didn’t have pos they they. 16:44.30vigorbrandingMe. 16:54.48vigorbrandingYeah, say they had carts. 16:58.36dan_fransmart_comYeah, so it’s like that’s okay, that’s okay, it’s like I know the other stuff but that and ironically like what I know is not um, as important is the fact that 5 guys had a line out the door or ha all guys had a line down the block like I can figure out how to build a system or manual. Way faster than I can ever figure out how to organically get a line down the road like that’s that’s a different level. So yeah, that is the magic but what I do is is it’s really interesting like when I I don’t leave anything to chance. No matter who I’m selling no matter what brand what market and who the franchisee is. 17:15.21vigorbrandingRight? That’s the magic. 17:30.87dan_fransmart_comI I act like they’ve never been in this business before because I want to be relentless about getting the right site. So like here I’m in Scottsdale right in Phoenix Arizona there’s for any concept. There’s 10 or 15 or 20 potential sites. But there’s really only 3 or 4 first sites. 17:36.65vigorbrandingYeah, he. 17:48.15dan_fransmart_comLike yeah to be very careful when you’re building a brand in a brand New Market is like there’s something very strategic about using real estate in real estate’s role in marketing and real estate’s role in branding and so you have to be really good of knowing exactly where your bull’s-eyes are and coming up with some logic around. 17:56.12vigorbrandingA. 18:07.15dan_fransmart_comWhat kind of order you should be growing and so we’re that kind of pedantic even about real estate. It’s not just about hey I need a twelve hundred foot space or fifteen hundred foot space like no, no, no there’s so much more to it and then once you have the right spot you have to make sure that your unit economics hit. So that that’s the thing is like you can’t you can’t go into a spot and then have cost overruns or you can’t have what you know it needs the cost. What everyone thought it was going to cost to open it needs to open above. Whatever sales everybody was thinking originally it needs to hit profitability faster because there’s all these weird things in people’s minds that like even if it’s a great site and for some reason it gets off to a slow start all of a sudden people like oops not going like plan. And psychological psychological. Ah they’ll start making dumb decisions. They’ll start cutting people cutting marketing cutting problems like wait a minute and so we we assume all that stuff’s going to happen so we’re relentless about how we pick real estate how we market how we build the team I always say you got a staff for the sales you want. And you have to staff for the company you’re trying to build. We never sell mom and pop franchises ones e toosey’s we sell territories and so whenever we’re selling like a halal guys. For example, the California franchisee opened with a director of operations from Panera. 19:11.99vigorbrandingHere. 19:25.37dan_fransmart_comAh, director of operations from Chipotle and I think a director of culinary from one of those 2 concepts too. Plus the manager plus the owners were there well, that’s also why that first store in California self-funded 7 more is because you you know you basically open up with the the team’s bandwidth could easily handle. 19:32.00vigorbrandingWell. 19:37.32vigorbrandingAre here. 19:45.32dan_fransmart_comThe kind of sales I think it was doing over three million a year and so you you have to sta for that if you if you open up doing you know $5000000 run rate with a million dollar team your sales go down. They never come back up and so like all of that little stuff. It’s like Dan you’re just the sales guy. It’s like mm. 19:46.10vigorbrandingWow. 19:55.19vigorbrandingAnd he. 20:02.92dan_fransmart_comI I sell a lot of franchises not because I’m good at sales I sell a lot of franchises because I make the brand sell themselves So all the things we talk about are kind of how do we get the brands to sell themselves the best the best marketing tool Any brand would ever have selling a franchise is the existing franchisees and so. 20:07.58vigorbrandingMan. 20:19.58vigorbrandingYeah. 20:22.35dan_fransmart_comYou have to make those franchisees So successful. So happy so referenceable that even when you’re not, they’re trying to orchestrate just the right reference even if they just run into somebody what they’re saying sells your franchise. 20:34.20vigorbrandingSure I mean it’s the experience the the customers get the franchisees get everybody. It’s got to be. You know everyone’s a customer at that point right? You know they’re selling the the actual brands to to new franchisees. So that’s. I mean that’s ah, that’s a really really great point. So what is the biggest mistake you see like franchisees making like when they you know they’re first coming to you. 20:57.35dan_fransmart_comUm, Fran when a franchisee ah picking the wrong brand like if they pick I mean I if they pick the wrong brand if they don’t staff the right way like everybody think about why somebody wants a franchise in the first place. The only reason to own a franchise is to get wealthy like there otherwise. 21:00.70vigorbrandingMan. 21:15.40dan_fransmart_comIt’s not worth the risk like you’re risking capital you’re risking an Sba loan or A Loan you’re risking signing a lease now you’re on the hook for that lease for years. The liability, the cash outlay the liabilities and the contingent liabilities those are real costs. The only reason to do that is because you’re trying to get to a completely different level in life and so now the question is what’s the right vehicle to get there. So what’s the thing that that’s going to make so much profit that I want to keep doing it and how do I do it and so the mistake a lot of people make is they’ll pick the wrong brand. 21:45.53vigorbrandingUm. 21:49.50dan_fransmart_comSo they want to get to never never land. They just pick on the wrong the wrong brand to get there when they buy a territory so somebody that wants to own 5 or 10 or 20 units when they open up their first store and they open up with a skeleton crew. You know we all have we have so much turnover in the restaurant business. You open up a store. 22:03.81vigorbrandingSure. 22:07.62dan_fransmart_comWith the skeleton crew and you even just have normal attrition. You’re constantly in a hole right? So you have to staff for the volume you want you have to staff for the company you’re trying to build that has to include redundancy has to include turnover so a franchisee who thinks a franchise only costs 300 grand to open. 22:09.63vigorbrandingHe. 22:27.40dan_fransmart_comIt’s like yeah but you need another 100000 in these extra soft costs to basically get to the point you know to get to this point and so it’s people not really thinking that through or at the first sign of things didn’t go like I thought. They start cutting. They abandon the big picture and they go start focusing internally and what happens is you start managing that business down so that’s the biggest mistake and then another big mistake is people just not following the systems like I interview from my podcast. All these franchisees of other brands I’m like tell me the difference between you and the. 22:46.60vigorbrandingAnd. 22:59.60dan_fransmart_comI Mean you like you’re one of the most successful franchisees and whatever the brand is I’m interviewing the guy for like what’s the difference between you and someone who struggles with the same brand almost to a T they go. We just follow the system and I said whenever you buy a struggling franchisee stores. How do you make them successful. 23:10.22vigorbrandingA. 23:17.45dan_fransmart_comGo back and follow the systems just execute like people are buying 5 guys because they want that burger those fries to taste exactly like they think they don’t want chicken sandwich. They’re not there to get you know salad or whatever they want that like just go back to making that. That’s all you got to do and it’s people overthink it and it’s like. 23:17.80vigorbrandingLeave you. 23:31.72vigorbrandingInconsistency. Yeah. 23:37.53dan_fransmart_comThat’s all you got to do if you’re buying a jack on the box at Mcdonald’s if you’re buying you know a Jiffy Lube right it’s like whatever it is. It’s like people are going to that brand because they want that experience all you have to do is give give it that give that to them. 23:51.50vigorbrandingYeah, well I mean we always say like in in marketing what we do. We always say ah the definition of a brand is brand is a promise and you know in the case with the restaurants I mean if I go to 5 guys no matter which one I go to I want I want them to basically promise me and give me that same thing I want that same product I don’t want it to vary from place to place. So. 24:03.60dan_fransmart_comYeah. 24:08.98vigorbrandingI think that’s amazing. Do you find yourself because I have to think this is is somewhat the case because you find these I’ll say these raw concepts these great concepts whether it’s halal guys or 5 guys or or probably Qdoba when you start with them I mean you’ve you’ve launched them. Are you bringing? you always talk about a playbook. Are you bringing that playbook to them. Are you kind of saying. Yeah, this is great here’s how we operationalize this thing. Do you find yourself really kind of setting up the operations a lot I figured. 24:32.20dan_fransmart_comUm, almost always so not not I mean not only setting maybe some sometimes it’s just tweaking right or giving them some best known tool we have because some people in me actually have really good systems for. 24:37.50vigorbrandingE e. 24:47.70dan_fransmart_comThere are 1 or 2 or 3 stores that the owners are constantly there and even if they don’t have a written system. They kind of all know how each other thinks and you know all that stuff. So there’s there’s really just technique about the best known way to do everything I mean marketing staffing operations time and motion studies like everything you can think of. 25:06.70vigorbrandingMe. 25:06.79dan_fransmart_comLike we have a tool in our toolbox for it and those tools keep getting changed. They keep getting retrofitted because think about marketing twenty years ago versus marketing today or tech the tech stack like there wasn’t even a tech stack twenty years ago so it’s like you have to keep evolving but our ecosystem in the restaurant business. 25:14.36vigorbrandingSure right. 25:25.52dan_fransmart_comIsn’t only every restaurant brand I’ve ever worked with I’m on the board of the national restaurant association. So there’s not really a Ceo I don’t know there’s not a big franchisee of any brand that I don’t know um I’m I’m ah oh and then kitchen fund. So we have a fund a kitchen fund. 25:29.85vigorbrandingUm, yeah. 25:39.51vigorbrandingThe. 25:42.51dan_fransmart_comWe were early investors in like sweet green and Kava and you know all kinds of different brands. So like our ecosystem’s pretty good and pretty valuable like we have a lot of really successful successful access in our in our ecosystem to always getting the best answer and so if there’s something coming up or something my brands are dealing with. Like I just go find 2 or 3 people that I know are just knocking it out of the park and you know we sort of get those answers and then we weave that back into our brand so it’s it’s a little bit of cheating. But. 26:14.52vigorbrandingUm, you know? yeah. 26:14.64dan_fransmart_comYeah, it’s something that we’re able to do you and I are on ypo together. There’s like most of the most successful franchisors and franchisees are in ypo and if you reach out to ah I mean I always say success leaves clues like if you’re trying to get a better answer like most people are pretty generous with their time like as long as you’re not overtly. 26:29.76vigorbrandingUm, yeah. 26:34.18dan_fransmart_comCompeting with them or annoying them. They’ll kind of help they’ll they’ll kind of help you figure that out. but but yeah but back to what the stuff we bring to the table is I think I liken it to a chain that goes around your neck like every link in the chain it takes to open a restaurant and operate a restaurant. Every link in a chain. It takes to what do I have to buy when do I have to buy it. What’s supposed to cost every link in the chain we feel like we have the best known chain with the best known links and so any brand that we take on who’s used to only having 1 or 2 or 5 or 9 or whatever it is like we’ll just have. 26:57.48vigorbrandingMe here a hint. 27:09.24dan_fransmart_comAll these links in the chain were like you know like some of the things they they may say no I’ve already got that I don’t need that but most often they they want help with that and then I’ve never seen a concept that I can’t figure out how to drive sales and lower costs like ah like drive drive sales I was on a call earlier today with a brand that that we’re looking at. 27:21.38vigorbrandingA. 27:28.90dan_fransmart_comBut it’s like you know it’s some of the stuff. It’s sort of like you and marketing like you could conversationally talk about marketing of stuff That’s just second nature to you to someone who’s not a marketing expert and they think you ah are you know a guru and it’s like I’m not really a guru I’ve just had we just have so many of these conversations. 27:38.24vigorbrandingRight mean he. 27:48.31dan_fransmart_comAnd we’re constantly trying to figure out how how who’s doing something better than everyone else. So we’re constantly having this conversation about the best known way So when these conversations come up. We’re able to just rattle them all up and it’s not. You know it’s just nature of our business. 27:52.40vigorbrandingMe. 28:03.61vigorbrandingYeah, and just we got to be refined, always refining so like I’m interested tonight. So someone called you and and I know you probably can’t say which I totally respect. But you’re looking at something I mean is it somebody that says hey I’ve got two like stores and I really think I have something here that could be. 28:12.14dan_fransmart_comYeah, yeah. 28:19.50vigorbrandingThe next big thing the next 5 guys. Ah or is it stuff that like you might have stumbled on to something or heard about something I mean how does that? How do how do they come to you or how does that work. 28:28.61dan_fransmart_comOh ah, well well those are 2 2 different things the way we get brands half the time they’re coming to us or someone will refer someone or someone says hey have you checked this out the other time we know what we’re looking for like we know what we’re looking for and we. We go after the best known players and whatever the market is so I’m I’m on this whole latin kick that nobody nobody’s done anything new in latin since Chipotle and they’re not even latin and so they’re as wide as I am and so we’re on this whole kick I met pitbull the rapper. 28:43.28vigorbrandingGot you? he. 28:59.86dan_fransmart_comAnd he’s like how come no Mexican chains are owned by Mexicans and how come no latins own the big Latino restaurant brands I’m like let’s fix that because probably because they might have like some of the best tacos or its best best restaurants you’ve ever been or in the hands of authentic latinos. 29:00.16vigorbrandingUm, he. 29:14.88vigorbrandingRight? Bum pop. 29:17.96dan_fransmart_comWhy haven’t they figured out how to build chains like I don’t know. Maybe it’s capital. Maybe it’s confidence. Maybe it’s know-how it’s like well we have plenty of all those. So now we’re targeting Latinos like pitbull and I are targeting Latinos with really good concepts we’re given a. 29:24.24vigorbrandingHe he. 29:33.10dan_fransmart_comEverything that both of us know think about his ecosystem like we’re giving him everything that we know to make to drive um success around that brand So we’re actually going to and we want to get wealthy helping Latinos get wealthy right? So that’s. 29:34.50vigorbrandingUm, yeah. 29:47.57vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. 29:48.95dan_fransmart_comThat’s like but that that was one of these things where as soon as he and I came up with this I’m like okay now I got to go find a really great brand and in that case, what I did is I went to Us foods the biggest supplier in the country or one of the biggest suppliers in the country said here’s what pit bull and I are looking for who do you know. And all of a sudden they’re like this brand in Chicago we think is the next thing could be the next chipotle blah blah blah blah blah fly out to Chicago and it like you are right right? So that that goes from you know, somebody a Us foods we we told us foods like I told 90 people what I’m looking for us foods. Basically you know. Said here’s we have a lot of latin brands here’s one that’s a standout and you think about that too is like like us foods has something to gain too because now they have a client that goes from I think it was 8 stores when we got there now. It’s 13 with 6 or 8 new territories around the country. Now. They’re going to have instead of a 8 unit brand they’re going to wind up having a 500 unit customer you know and it was because they basically brought it up to us. 30:49.54vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. So do you think a latino brand. Do you think that’s going to be Franz Mars Next big big thing in the portfolio or you have something else cooking or what? what do you think the next big big thing is. 30:57.31dan_fransmart_comWe we? Yeah, we have a few brands that are doing record numbers like this this latin brands called cilantro it’s growing faster for me so far than 5 guys did like our first several months is growing faster. 31:06.43vigorbrandingI Love the name. 31:11.34dan_fransmart_comAnd it’s growing every franchisee is a franchisee of another brand and so they all have experience. They all know what they’re doing. They have capital but they also have a perspective of why they like this brand better than what they’re doing and so um, it’s interesting. Keep an eye on cilantra. That’s gonna be a fun one and then we’re. 31:25.93vigorbrandingAnd again I don’t know who does your naming but I love that I Love the name Slanic because I think that’s so approachable yet It’s intriguing. You know. 31:33.69dan_fransmart_comYeah, but it’s it’s like Chipotle right? So it’s like cilantro and and ah but it’s I mean it’s a real authentic story because I’m like the world doesn’t need another chipotle another mexican created by a white guy like they need. It should be like so our tagline or our. 31:43.75vigorbrandingE. 31:49.14dan_fransmart_comPositioning is the next big thing in Mexican is actually really mexican and so this is a family that kind of you know snuck into the country and like so many do and started off ah humbly through life in America you know like the halal guys. 31:50.94vigorbrandingShe. 31:56.48vigorbrandingHe. 32:06.56dan_fransmart_comAh, yeah, but they you know they came across and they they literally started opened up a restaurant to make a living to feed people to make a living turned out that what they were serving and it was latin for latinos so they started off their whole career is making this amazing. So think about how tough that customer is it’s not Latin Latino for gringos. 32:18.00vigorbrandingBriefly. 32:25.61vigorbrandingWe hear. 32:25.73dan_fransmart_comThis is latino for latinos and it was a standout brand that was doing crazy numbers and then all of a sudden they had opened 2 locations. They took over a failed baha fresh and it’s doing crazy numbers. They took over a failed chipotle right? That’s America’s darling is chipotle. 32:41.70vigorbrandingUm, right. 32:44.30dan_fransmart_comWhere Chipotle couldn’t succeed in this area of Chicago they’re packed. They’re busy and so you’re like wait a minute latino for latinos yeah, people like it and I’m like this thing’s going to be a monster and that’s why like I think we had 6 or 8 people come look at it all 6 or 8 of them are our franchisees now. 32:47.27vigorbrandingYeah, and again so it’s it’s quality. Yeah. 33:01.87dan_fransmart_comSo they’re all buying the franchise but that and then the other thing I’m excited about we got approach and beginning a covid if you you remember when Covid first happened the government was scrambling every day with new rules and regulations and restaurants had to close or could only open every other seat or had to do dividers Whatever was driving the industry crazy. 33:02.11vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 33:20.40dan_fransmart_comAnd I had a franchise lawyer that said hey I’ve got this electronics Brand Would you take it on I’m like I don’t think so I don’t know anything about electronics Long story short. We took it on that thing’s growing faster than any brand I’ve ever grown. It’s way more successful than any restaurant has ever been. It’s called pay more pay more electronics. It’s. 33:35.64vigorbrandingThat’s great, very cool. 33:37.90dan_fransmart_comBuy sell trade new and used electronics and the irony is a lot of food guys are building it and then all of a sudden I run across um, a ah facial Studio Skincare Studio called Glow thirty. So it’s a small little and and I was approached by her. 33:40.57vigorbrandingShe. 33:53.68vigorbrandingYou know. 33:54.36dan_fransmart_comHer commercial broker her real estate broker. She goes hey would you ever do like a facial place I’m like I don’t know I’ve never even had a facial and I I talked to the lady and she said hey I want to be the orange theory of skin care I’m like I don’t know what that means and I’ve never been to orange theory and I’ve never had a facial but I. 34:06.19vigorbrandingAnd then. 34:13.40dan_fransmart_comAnd I saw the lady who was in Bethesda Maryland I looked on through my Linkedin I found somebody at orange theory and Bethesda and I said hey can I venmow you some money and you go check this place out and she said sure I’ve venmoed her some cash she went and checked it out. She looked up my background she goes I don’t know what your plan is with this brand but whatever it is I’m in. 34:30.79vigorbrandingYeah, yeah. 34:33.90dan_fransmart_comAnd so she actually left orange theory came to work for me. She’s the vice president of 4 us growing low 30 and this is skincare clinic that’s growing faster than I mean it’s just grown like crazy. So we’ve gone from being a restaurant franchise development company to a franchise development company and um. 34:50.48vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. 34:51.84dan_fransmart_comBut we keep looking for food like I’m I’m I’m ah I can’t offline I’ll tell you who, but it’s but we’re we’re working on a pretty pretty big project right now like I’m still I’m at the end of the day I like to feed people. There’s just something very rewarding about feeding somebody someone pays you for the food that you give them. 34:59.73vigorbrandingUm, yes, yeah. 35:11.33dan_fransmart_comAnd they say thank you and they come back and they bring friends like there’s just something instantly gratification gratify gratifying about about that. So like I’ll always be in the in the restaurant business but the restaurant industry is getting a little wakeup call because it’s from a business perspective. It’s hard. 35:12.11vigorbrandingYeah, he. 35:29.54dan_fransmart_comHarder to make money nowadays in restaurants which is why so many like at this places glow 30 like we just sold all of Arizona to a huge food franchisee Greg Flynn the biggest franchisee in the world is this starting to expand with nonfoo and and ah yeah. 35:39.47vigorbrandingUm, sure. Yeah, the the glow 30 thing look I’ll be very very honest I think it’s fantastic because I know that look feeding people makes you feel great. If you haven’t gotten a facial i. Absolutely recommend it I look I’m a father of daughters I’ll admit it I go every two months. It is the greatest thing on earth. So the fact that you are in the on the but the ground floor of a franchise for this brilliant I guarantee it will explode I mean I just ah, in fact I buy a bunch of the gift cards and I give them out to folks here in the office because I just think it’s like. 36:02.53dan_fransmart_comUm, yeah. 36:11.60dan_fransmart_comYeah, well I it will now I can’t now so glow 30 It’s one of these members. It’s a membership skincare which is another thing it’s sort of like memberships is the ultimate hack because you make money while you sleep. You basically make money whether people use. 36:11.71vigorbrandingAh, great hour of your life. You know? So if you if you haven’t done it. Do it. Ah perfect. Yeah yeah, right. 36:28.82dan_fransmart_comSomething or not when you have a membership think about fitness studios how many times you buy a membership and you don’t go and the fitness studio is happy. They’re happy because you’re not there so they wind up selling one hundred and fifty percent of capacity knowing that the third of the morons never show up. So um. 36:31.63vigorbrandingYep, yeah. 36:41.56vigorbrandingUm, that’s right. 36:44.97dan_fransmart_comBut that’s that’s sort of the membership model and it’s like man this thing you buy a membership and the ah but the irony here is people don’t not use it. So it’s ah every month the the facial changes right? So like in October it was like a pumpkin facialin. 36:52.97vigorbrandingAre a are. 36:59.45dan_fransmart_comJuly I think it was like lemoncello or whatever but every month it’s a different carefully curated facial and people don’t miss it. So it’s not like you just get a facial and no big deal I get one next week it’s people like no, it’s the end of the month they’re going to change this month into next month I don’t want to miss last month so the reason I still haven’t ever been to glow is every time I come in for discovery day. These guys are booked out three weeks in advance. So like if you said you wanted a franchise right now for glow the earliest I could book your discovery day is like three weeks because we want you to get a facial as part of your discovery day. It’s like yeah and so. 37:19.90vigorbrandingOh yeah, yeah yeah. 37:26.37vigorbrandingWow Yeah in the in the facial is the product’s holding it up right. 37:35.15dan_fransmart_comSo yeah, so it’s ah but it’s yeah, it’s funny, but but now I mean it’s franchising like we had. We is weird. We had a record year last year we we had more new franchise sales last year than ever the first quarter of this year doubled last year so like been doing this for 30 years and 37:48.56vigorbrandingA. 37:54.11dan_fransmart_comAnd that’s even food like I mean our food brands like cilantro we have. We have the largest fastest growing indian brand called curry up now. So there’s another one. There’s a billion and a half indians when you think about how many indians and pakistani eat what looks like to you and I indian food. It’s like no one’s ever built a brand. 37:54.65vigorbrandingUm, yeah. 38:11.40vigorbrandingUm, right. 38:12.55dan_fransmart_comAnd so we you know now we have 100 units in development for curry up now. We just sold London so that’s now international. So the London franchisee is the subway franchisee for for all of Uk. He actually bought all of Uk for curry up now. So yeah, we’re going we’re going nuts we got dessert franchises. We got. You know we we got really good things but I’m drawn to things that have really good numbers. So like I have a cookie franchise called smackery in New York City and no one. There’s no real number 2 to crumble and nobody I mean crumble just went like a monster I tried to get smackery 6 or 7 5 five five 38:38.32vigorbranding8 38:44.17vigorbrandingYeah, yeah. 38:50.41dan_fransmart_comYears ago before I ever saw crumble and I couldn’t even get him to call me back and then finally I knew someone who knew him and we made a deal about a year ago but there’s no number 2 to to crumble all the people that are trying to build cookie shops are all doing six hundred Grand seven hundred Grand a year this guy is. He’s in Eight hundred Square feet and I think he did two point three million dollars last year. So yeah, yeah, cookies 3 yeah so I mean ridiculous sales and and um, but he’s doing a difference. It was like well even in New York there’s a lot of other places that do under a million dollars why is he doing. 39:09.85vigorbrandingWow Cookies That’s fantastic. 39:27.26dan_fransmart_comMore than double what everyone else is doing. It’s like that’s what I look for so like I look for concepts that just do like haa guys. There’s a lot of people selling meat over rice with sauce in New York only 1 guy had a line down the block. So I got him it was smackerys only 1 guy is doing whatever. 39:33.77vigorbrandingNo. 39:39.46vigorbrandingYeah, that’s right. 39:46.65dan_fransmart_comThousand dollars a foot in sales. He’s $3000 a foot in sales or whatever he’s doing even in New York like by New York standards that’s still 2 times the sales per foot than any other chain does and it’s like well you know so there’s something about that which makes yeah which makes my life easy because I don’t have. 39:56.93vigorbrandingUm, there’s some there. Yeah. 40:02.94dan_fransmart_comYou know like I don’t have the guy that’s only doing 7 or eight hundred Grand a year in cookies I have the guy doing two point three million so makes my life a little bit easier. 40:06.62vigorbrandingYeah, very cool. Let’s let’s talk 1 more thing about that you’re’re you’re embarking on the podcast journey you’re gonna do smart franise you go talk a little bit about that. 40:16.50dan_fransmart_comSure so I started a franchise. It’s the first question I ask whenever I meet successful franchisees or franchisors I’m like what makes you successful. What are you doing? What do you know that I don’t or what you know why are you getting results that other people are getting and so. 40:31.22vigorbrandingIs. 40:33.95dan_fransmart_comStarted smart franchising with frans smart I just believe success leaves clues and I feel like people are willing to share and so my first guest on was the biggest franchisee in the world. Greg Flynn he owns 2700 something franchises all over the world. He’s now going I mean I think he’s targeting 5000 franchises. He’s going to go to some weird number and it’s like okay, well and I’d ask him right on the podcast What do you do different like why are you getting the results you’re getting why are you and without saying it I’m kind of like why are you better than everyone else or what are you doing that people can learn from. 41:06.64vigorbrandingMe here. 41:10.85dan_fransmart_comAnd surprisingly I mean he’s he’s obviously um, careful. Ah, but he gave some really good. Um, really good tidbits and then but like I had franchisees of 5 guys and and um, franchisee really successful franchisee from um, red robin. 41:27.74vigorbrandingHe sure. 41:29.52dan_fransmart_comRight? So casual dining is taking a beating right now. Well here’s a guy that’s doing double-digit sales increases and he’s still growing. So I’m like what thell are you doing that like Chilis can’t figure out in Fridays are closing restaurants and you’re building more restaurants you’re doing great. What are you doing and he’ll tell you he’ll tell you exactly as secrets as success. 41:38.98vigorbrandingSo in here. 41:44.92vigorbrandingYeah. 41:49.00dan_fransmart_comAh, 5 guys franchisees like why? Why do you have 80 stores. Why do you? This other guy had 17 another guy had 80 like what is it, you do different than everyone else they leave that and one I had 2 other guys on that are really really cool by bunch but 1 of them was Don Fox from Firehouse sold a sandwich shop right? You think there’s not room for another sandwich shop or he builds one he sells it for $1000000000 so it’s like how did you do it like what can what can my audience learn or Freddy’s like even after fiveges. Freddy is the burger and and milk shake company. 42:08.98vigorbrandingYou’re right. Shift a. 42:22.10dan_fransmart_comSame thing like you get his whole story and you get how he did it and they tell it in a way that tells you if you follow what they did. You’re going to have the same result and then 1 thing right now that I think is mystifying a lot of people is the restaurant tech stack people don’t understand restaurant marketing or the tech stack. Most. 42:31.42vigorbrandingMan. 42:38.63vigorbrandingPerformance. 42:41.80dan_fransmart_comMost people don’t get it I had a guy on that I think is the best and most brilliant in the space and he decoded the whole thing and not only decoded it I’m like give me the app to fix this. Give me the app to fix that if you were a franchisee. What are the first 3 things that you’d make sure that you did. 42:57.90vigorbrandingMe. 42:59.16dan_fransmart_comAnd he went into detail about everything and so it’s you know stuff that he charges a lot of money as a consultant. He’s giving it all away for free so smart franchising with Fransmar is really just that. It’s like what’s this. What’s the best known way to do everything um in a way that people can learn from. 43:15.69vigorbrandingYeah I mean it seems to me and I don’t know if you found this but I feel like there’s a lot of the same ingredients I mean it typically starts with a really good quality product I think people think a lot of times when there’s a franchise or whatever. It’s like you figure out ways to ah ah skip. And to save money and certainly have to run the operation but it’s usually a quality product. Um consistency. Ah great operations and then I go back to that sort of that brand promise like there’s a story. There’s there’s this great authenticity that that kind of exudes and and kind of you can carry from place to place. We just had. I just had betsy ham ah from duck donuts on and that that’s a franchise that kind of grew I mean yeah, did the world need another donut shop I mean you know Russ Degiio the the founder thought so and and a great story I mean was it he was at the outer banks ah always thought of like you know going and getting fresh donuts at the beach the jersey shore we are. Lots of places have you know, fresh. You know, homemade Duck. He didn’t he couldn’t find one so he thought he should start a donut place at the outer banks out in duck and that’s where that’s where it came from and it was like I mean you know puts this together and it’s this. Ah, it’s this great franchise. So I feel like a lot of these guys have ah just a great story. A passion. 44:17.76dan_fransmart_comYeah. 44:29.72vigorbrandingAnd it’s an authenticity that you know makes it makes it kind of ah ah, magnetic that other people want it and and want to grow from it. Yeah. 44:33.49dan_fransmart_comYeah, yeah, yeah I agree but that I duck don’t I Love duck donuts and they’re delicious, but you think about it’s like well how did he create that it’s like because he created it like how did I do what I did because he did it. 44:43.90vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, that’s it. Yeah yeah, yeah, that’s right, you know execute That’s right, you know don’t be afraid to fail the whole thing I tell my I tell my daughters all the time I mean look I failed a lot. So. 44:49.77dan_fransmart_comIt’s like that’s the biggest thing is people sitting on the sidelines like you got to get going life is short. Yeah. 45:01.28dan_fransmart_comYeah, yeah. 45:01.81vigorbrandingThe C student guy Again, you know you you fail. You just go out there and you know hey look hopefully you get an a here bring that average up to a C but you know you’re allowed to fail you go out and try things and pivot and and keep going. It’s it’s exciting. So you said you start your podcast out with the same question I end mine with the same question. So I’m going to. 45:09.78dan_fransmart_comYeah. 45:17.85vigorbrandingI’m gonna ask this? Um I look forward to your answer, you’ve created a lot of restaurants you’ve built brands all over the the world. So your last meal one final meal. What would you eat where and why and there’s a disclosure you’re not going to assault any of your ah ah franchisees. You can just pick anything. So. 45:31.60dan_fransmart_comOh man, probably my last meal would be my last meal is going to be Italian and it’s probably going to be. 45:47.32dan_fransmart_comI don’t know got to think about this? um I wish you said it ahead of time but ah, but there’s a restaurant in New York City it’s my favorite in the world and it’s because the dad cooks the mom’s the hostess and the son’s the waiter. It’s called Sandros Sandros 46:04.57vigorbrandingSandros. Okay. 46:05.57dan_fransmart_comAnd it’s the best food I’ve ever had. It’s dinky teeny tiny but everything that comes out’s unbelievable. It’s the opposite of pretentious. It’s the ah I mean it’s just a neighborhood place that you could walk by a hundred times and never know it was there every time I go to New York I 46:13.37vigorbrandingE. 46:22.30vigorbrandingI I just wrote it down I’m in New York all the time. So I’m gonna I’m gonna try and fight is it in Manhattan it’s okay Sandros. 46:23.10dan_fransmart_comBlock time to go there. That’s probably my favorite meal of all places sandros. Yeah yeah, yeah in the upper East but it’s like it’s awesome. Food’s good. Price are reasonable. You know and you all and you go there and you feel like they appreciate that you’re there the whole the whole load but it was definitely my last meal of no matter where would be Italian like favorite food I could I mean I Just can’t get enough of that. So I Love it. But yeah, Thanks ma’am. 46:39.42vigorbrandingHe. Yeah, you go? Yeah hey I Appreciate you know I could talk to you for hours is fascinating I Absolutely enjoy it. Thank you so much soon. 46:57.21dan_fransmart_comYou’re welcome. We’ll see you soon. 

Through his company, HospiVation, Jason coaches restaurant executives how to make their goals real in the restaurant and teaches restaurant managers how to transform their patterns of management to improve their hospitality leadership.HospiVation helps restaurants through coaching, speeches, workshops and books. They try to meet managers where they are and dive deep in the restaurant's team to help them build better teams. Jason has wanted to work in the restaurant industry since a very young age and got his first job as a restaurant dishwasher at the age of 15. He's worked for 20 different restaurant brands during his career. One of the biggest mistakes restaurant managers make when it comes to leadership is trying to do everything by themselves and not learning to delegate. It's important for managers to understand a restaurant's KPIs, but it's also important for EVERY member of the team to understand the KPIs and how success is measured.In an effective meeting, the meeting organizer and leader should talk 20 percent of the time and the rest of the attendees should talk 80 percent of the time. QUOTES “I came in through the side door. I started out washing dishes at a very young age. My mother didn't even know I got a job.” (Jason) “I've worked for 20 different restaurant brands and six of the top 100 brands in the U.S. This has given me the ability to see the Mona Lisa painted 20 different ways. All of those learnings helped to shape my company, HospiVation.” (Jason)  “Ask any social media manager. It's very hard to get people to follow you and it's even hard to keep them.” (Jason) “It's not just managing, leading and coaching – it's knowing the difference between the three. We use managing more than anything else in our day as a hospitality leader. Leadership is different. Leadership is understanding the overarching items about the industry and where to move the brand next.” (Jason) “Coaching is the mastery of small groups and one-on-ones. Coaching is you creating a space of 30 minutes to listen to your team.” (Jason) “When it comes to mastering your meetings, you have to understand that if you aren't sitting down to make a decision, you probably shouldn't be there.” (Jason) “You should never stop training, even when someone puts in a notice (and are departing soon).” (Jason) TRANSCRIPT 00:00.00vigorbrandingHello everybody today’s guest is Jason Brooks he’s a motivational speaker an expert in restaurant management and the author of the book every leader needs followers 10 keys to transform restaurant managers into hospitality leaders Jason. Thanks so much for being here. Um, I’d love to start off with just you talking a little bit about your past like some of the places you’ve been and some of the things you’ve done. 00:26.34Jason BrooksThank you Michael ah, it’s a pleasure being on forktails in amazing podcast. Your listeners are full First they know their business. They know what they’re talking about so I am honored. Um, you know my past is like many. Pasts of coaches of speakers meaning that I came in through the side door and and I started out washing dishes very young age 15 first job. My my mother didn’t even know that I got a job. Ah, she just came home one day after three weeks of working and there were a lot more groceries in the fridge than when she went to work and she’s like Jason where did all this food come from and like mom I promise I didn’t do anything bad I got a child. But cooking has been something that has stuck with me even up to this day I still find different recipes. You could find me on the weekends breaking out the smoker I have a traeger whether it’s brisket or some chicken or some ribs and. I am getting down but I’ve been in this business I’ve been in this industry for thirty plus years and I’m known as what some may call a restaurant lifer. Um, even though I’m a restaurant lifer I had some odd jobs. 01:53.21Jason BrooksIn between here and there because people that get in the restaurant business. They don’t typically wake up at the age of 7 and say I want to work in restaurants. You know they actually say I want to be a fireman or I want to be this? Um, so there was a time there that although I was good. In the restaurant business I fought it and I found that most people fight being in this business at some point because they think it’s trying to change them. They think that it’s trying to change themselves from being authentic. And it takes having that right mentor that right person that you lean on or your spouse or friend saying what are you doing you are you are good at this. You need to do this or you to then say? Okay I’m going to now truly invest my time in this. Um, but I’ve worked for 20 different restaurant brands 6 of the top 100 brands in the us and I always say this has given me the ability to view the Mona Lisa painted 20 different ways. Some of them are some amazing pieces of art. Some of them are just pieces but all of these learnings from all these brands help to shape my company called hospitalation which is hospitality and motivation and is putting that motivation back into hospitality. 03:23.31vigorbrandingFantastic. That’s great. Ah, and I you know I got to see some of your podcasts. They were wonderful and your energy is contagious I Love it. Absolutely love it. Um, so talk we’re gonna talk about your book. But let’s talk about hospiation a little bit I mean talk about what it does What you’ve been doing with it and you know give us some some background there. 03:27.43Jason BrooksAre. 03:42.45Jason BrooksUm, probation was made to help manage lead and coach restaurant tours executives back to some of the foundations that may have been lost, especially within the last four years there’s been some things lost within the skill set. Of our teams and also some some of of the things that as owners we need to recognize more of what our teams are missing to help close that gap so hospitalation helps to close the gap between. Customer or guest expectations and the operator or owner execution and we do this through coaching through speeches through workshops through books. Um, we try to meet. The owner meet the manager where they are and give those pieces and leave everything on the table I mean leave it all on field. There are no secrets. It’s just being able to help dive deeper into that team or into that person. To find out what really drove them to be successful and then help double down on those tactics on those skillsets for them to build better teams around them. 05:01.89vigorbrandingVery good. Um I mean like you know I look at I mean we we employ a lot of folks here in our company and probably 100 and some employees and you know different generations come in and I’ve been doing this for a really long time and you know I see different types of sort of attitudes and stuff and. You know we we we all lived through the whole covid thing and the restaurants I mean getting back and coming back I mean you you have in here about the motivation. Do. Do you feel like restaurants and the hospitality industry in general has lost its motivation. Are you feeling that that that they need that maybe ah, an infusion of ah of motivation. 05:38.37Jason BrooksUm, I mean it is motivation. It’s also a understanding of finding out and just remembering what made you successful before.. For example, there’s a lot of times whenever. Let’s let’s go through the whole ranks when a cook shifts into a manager role. What made them successful as a cook they tend to leave that behind as a manager or a manager into a multi-unit manager. Whenever you are a manager you’re running your own restaurant. Um, you tend to use ah a checklist you tend to create mini gms you tend to have all these things in place because there’s so much on your plate. That you need reminders to help make sure that you cover all the bases that you need to cover and then all of a sudden when they shift into a multi unit manager they tend to shoot from the hip. They don’t have any checklist. They don’t walk into the building studying anything about that business whenever they walk in if they’re running multiple restaurants same thing as owners we think that we are exuding some of the same things that made us successful. 06:56.88Jason BrooksBut we have to revisit. What is it exactly that made us successful within our last role and now how do we bring that into the next and that’s what that’s that motivation that is missing. We can’t leave things behind. We have to bring them with us. 07:14.34vigorbrandingGood. So okay, let’s talk about your book I see it behind you there leadership every leader needs followers 10 keys to transform restaurant managers into hospitality leaders. Um, it’s not easy to get people to follow. You is it as a leader. 07:17.99Jason BrooksUm, I Yes, um. 07:26.71Jason BrooksNo no, ask any social media manager it is it. It’s it’s very hard to get them to follow you and it’s even harder to keep them and that’s where that’s where some of the 10 keys. Covers is not only how do you build a followship and you have to be a wonderful follower yourself. But then how do you keep that as well. 07:54.33vigorbrandingVery good. So what? What? What do you think are the biggest mistakes the restaurant managers are making when it comes to being an effective leader. 08:02.48Jason BrooksHands down doing it by yourself I’ve seen it too many times we come in as a manager and we think that the things again the things I used to do I can just do it and then I’ll do it by myself. I don’t have trust and whenever you you try to lead a restaurant team by yourself. Yes, there’s things that you should bring with you but there’s a lot of management and leadership things that you have to learn because. Managing and leading a group of people is it natural. It is something that you have to invest time and and even money in order to make sure that you do this right? and when I say money as a investment time is money. When we put 3 hours of our life into something else that definitely cost us. We could be doing something else. But the return we get when we invest in the right way to manage lead and coach that return is just amazing and it’s not just. Managing leading and coaching is knowing the difference between the three because managing is using or or having a group of people keep. 09:24.99Jason BrooksKeeping them in the guard rails to hit a certain point by a certain time and remain within a certain budget. We use managing more than anything else within our day as a hospitality leader leadership is different. Leadership is is really understanding that. Overarching ah items about the industry about the trends about what’s going on about where to move the brand to next and it’s also when a group of people have run into a situation that they don’t know what the next step should be. And then that leadership mindset helps to shift it into painting the picture for them to see ah that’s exactly where we have to go I can’t believe I didn’t see that before now coaching is different than managing and leadership coaching is that mastery of small groups. 1 on one. That’s the thing that we forget to bring with us whenever we are trying to lead our teams is the coaching aspect. We think I don’t need to coach my teams. My team has been around been working together for the last two three years I pay him $15 per hour. They better know what to do, but it’s just not true and coaching also isn’t just you making 1 on 1 time to spew more stuff onto them coaching is actually you creating a space 30 minutes to listen to your team to find out what their challenges are. 10:59.85Jason BrooksBut they’re trying to accomplish about themselves a a about their family. All the things that helps build that relationship that when they’re in your building In. You’re not there. They have the the skillset to make the right choices with maximum results. That’s the key to coaching. 11:20.24vigorbrandingYeah that’s ah, that’s well said I know that a couple of things you said there were really really interesting. The 1 thing you said it was a big mistake people make is they do it themselves and you’re right I think as leaders sometimes we’re so used to doing things or we know how to do it and we take it for granted, we don’t take the time to for for lack of a word teach. And bring people along right? I mean you know it’s just ah, it’s one of those things where um, if you don’t take the time to to train and coach. Ah, you’re not you can’t expect them to to learn and and to excel I think that’s ah I think it’s a really good point that you made. Um so you know in your book you have 10 keys for effective restaurant leadership. 11:48.90Jason BrooksUm, but. 11:54.74vigorbrandingWant to talk about 1 of the one of those keys and you talk about kpis I mean obviously it’s important for the managers to know about the kpis but you feel it’s important for everyone to understand talk about that a little bit. Why why? Why are the kpi so important. 12:08.80Jason BrooksBecause of what we do every year as a business every year if you look at your window. Not just we do it every business that is on your block does the same thing they create this business plan. They make the business plan. They put a core of people that’s in the c-suite or just on the on the ownership team they make this business plan print it on a pretty parsial paper put it in a frame hang it on a wall and then maybe a senior manager or 2 knows exactly what that is. And by the time it gets down to the guest-facing employee. It is lost so what I mean by master your kpis as being the number one key is that it isn’t just knowing your numbers It’s not just knowing sales. And and and your profits and your losses it is about how do you create that number and make a connection with the human element that is in your business every position and either help you or hurt you in making those business goals. The question is whenever we make those goals or big rocks. Do we know what we’re doing when we make those big rocks and whenever I say big I like to use the acronym b I g not just because I like the rapper but b I g because b if it’s a big rock. 13:35.69Jason BrooksThe B is for believable is the goal can it actually be attained I intentional. Yes, it may be a goal but are you actually putting effort is your team putting effort behind making that goal happen daily and then G grounded. Grounded is if we don’t make this goal. We will not be successful at what we do so whenever we make those goals those big rocks Those Kpis are we making it believable intentional and grounded and then when we do. How do we create that same pattern for what the buser does what the host does what the matrid does what? what the cook does every single person has to understand what is the human element in the things that they do within their role 3 things that they can do to help. 14:31.40vigorbrandingVery cool. So I mean sometimes though the Kpis the numbers and all that does that get in the way of the customer experience can that some kind sometimes dilute or detract from the attention that they deserve for the customer experience. 14:31.48Jason BrooksMake that happen. 14:37.92Jason BrooksAnd. I think that’s where whenever you break it down to make the human element behind it. That’s where it makes sense because you can say that it is to grow sales. But if it’s only about the dollar item. And you’re only telling that for just the server that they need to grow sales that doesn’t make sense that does take away from the from the experience but whenever you can say whenever you can actually connect with your guest and get them to come back 2 more times because you wowed them. Because you beat the guest to the hospitality meaning you were getting things for them that they didn’t even ask for that. You remembered their anniversary when you can make that true connection and make them choose us over someone else on on the same block. That’s how we build sales. So yes, it is a number but when you can connect the human element to it. That’s whenever you can actually you can improve that experience not just make it numerical. 15:50.00vigorbrandingYeah, you nailed it I mean at the end of the day we’re we’re serving. We’re serving guests and it’s people and we want to make their day. We want to make them feel special and it is more than just numbers at the end of the day there’s numbers involved when we gets paid. We’re doing this for business. It’s ah it’s a living. It’s a passion but it’s you know it all comes around the the customer I think that’s super important I think that ties into the next thing one of your chapters in your book owner like orientation. Ah, really interesting. We. We have a thing here in our company. Um, we we as an agency. Ah. Have a thing called Homeroom which goes back to the old school days we get together on a Tuesday morning the entire organization multiple cities and we we talk about the good the bad and the ugly of the industry and at the end we ask people what they’re passionate about passion is one of our core values. And we also talk about putting your name on the door and what we mean by that is if your name was on the door. What would you do what would you do differently how would you improve the company what do you suggest and so I think that’s like a really important thing and ah we want I want people to to act like owners if owners care. Ah, owners care about the customer so owner like orientation half the feeling might might tie in there. can you can you talk about that a little bit. 17:03.48Jason BrooksYes I think that definitely when we bring our team in with the bigger picture things happen and what I mean by that is that we typically do orientation wrong right now we’ll bring them in. We’ll have a table ready some aprons shirt hat name tag. And then they’ll have a seat a stack of paper and then they’ll scribe until the pen runs hot then we’ll take them back. Put them on a laptop for possibly some computer-based training and then put them on 1 position what we’re doing right? There is that the only thing that that they’re owning is three things. 1 table which happens to be their favorite break table if you ever notice the table you do orientation at ends up being their breakck table then 2 a laptop and 3 1 position and then for the next 6 to eight weeks we’re hoping and praying that they tend to branch out to do more. While the people who train them are just going crazy because they’re like Steve where are you getting these horrible hires from they don’t want to do anything so that’s where we first start out with doing orientation wrong which is one of the easiest way. That any listener can change their ro I on a new hires. What I propose is this tick scene table same setup papers all all of that good stuff when you bring them in shake their hand ask them if they’re thirsty and then say where we we are going to start outside. 18:37.73Jason BrooksYou take them outside and not just outside you take them out all the way out to the road by the curb on the edge by the cars driving by and you then say this is your restaurant and this is mine too and this is the view that every single customer sees whether they are stopping by here or not. They they see it from the curb all the way in and this is how we look compared to our neighbor and this neighbor we actually pick up all this trash from the curb all the way up every single day because we want to make sure that we look amazing to everyone that chooses to eat here or not. And then you walk them on it. We also sweep the parking lot not just up to the curb but all the way to the edge of the lot. This is our sidewalk. We actually scrub this this is our trash cans whenever we drop trash. We pick it up and then we sweep it and we keep the doors closed because we want to keep all the flies inside. We don’t want them flying out and then as you’re doing this as you’re walking them as you’re walking them through you’re you’re also checking their body language. How much does it suck whenever you hire someone and three weeks later they’re like ah this is too much for me I’m out of here wouldn’t you want to know on day zero. This is not going to work out. So as you’re walking them around the exterior giving them that owner like view as you walk them in now talk about sightlines for the customer and break it down to a 1 a 3 and a 5 a one being the lowest or subpar a 3 being par. 20:11.50Jason BrooksAnd a 5 being exceptional service and then you’re talking them through what a 1 3 or 5 is at the host stand with a host creek with it being neat and being tidy as they’re walking through the dining room what they can hear from the kitchen ass are sitting down. You’re now connecting. Your guest experience scores with your walkthrough and they now understand and see the whole building more as you’re doing this? Yes, you do add on forty five maybe fifty more minutes onto your onto your orientation. But the return on investment you get. Of them knowing that they can help when they pull up in the parking lot. Not just when they’re in position and then your trainer’s like oh man Steve these new hires you you you you ah must have got these guys from chick-fil-a. Dunked them in the back office in holy water and then brought them back out saying please and thank you like? no actually I just made sure that they understand the big picture on day one and then that way when I pass them off to you. They now see things differently. 21:22.40vigorbrandingThat’s great. That’s great, Well look as a marketing company I mean we’re hired to help build brands and oftentimes people think a brand is the logo the name. Maybe it’s the social media the personality that we project in the in the advertising and all that which is they’re all parts of the brand. But. 21:26.83Jason BrooksHe. 21:38.69vigorbrandingAt the end of the day I mean it’s how the customer feels when they’re in there. It’s the product of course. But it’s also the experience and that’s part of the brand. So the folks you’re training are your brand. Ah you know evangelists and they’re going to be what people remember when they drive by to use your your analogy going by the road and they look over at that restaurant. They’re going to remember how they felt. 21:40.57Jason BrooksGreater. But we can. 21:57.93vigorbrandingWhen they were there Sure they’re going to think about the food and if it was good and it was a good value. Did I they treat but that that experience and and it’s really going to be those folks that you’re training that are going to make that good or bad and we’ve all eaten it. Phenomenal restaurants. Food was great and and the the service was bad, something went wrong along the way. 22:04.97Jason BrooksAre are are. 22:15.71vigorbrandingAnd in this day and age we can’t afford that I mean every touch point of the brand has to be at its peak and the people are are really integral to the the whole thing um key 6 another one of your your your your keys now I think you and I might disagree on this. Maybe we don’t I don’t know but I’m gonna I’ll dive into it. Master. 22:31.87Jason BrooksI. 22:34.68vigorbrandingMaster your meetings I hate meetings I think meetings end up being half of them more than half of them are a waste of time perhaps because I’m in them I don’t know but I just I don’t find them to be I don’t find them to be valuable at all and you know you have agendas you have follow through. You have ah deadlines and all that stuff. But. So talk to me about mastering a meeting and maybe ah maybe I’m going to learn a lot here because I have a feeling I’m going to. 22:59.23Jason BrooksWell first we suck at meetings and no, no, we we actually suck at meetings because there’s times we we ah ah have meetings in order to fill. 23:02.30vigorbrandingOkay, maybe that’s it Maybe I sucked at me. Maybe ah maybe maybe that’s when I learned this whole thing. Okay, so. 23:16.30Jason BrooksTime and space a meeting should be defined as the reason why I’m asking you to step away from your role is because the thing that we need to make a decision on. We can’t unless you are there. That’s it. 23:32.81vigorbrandingMe here. 23:35.97Jason BrooksIf that doesn’t apply to the person that’s at the table. They shouldn’t be at the table 1 and 2 you probably shouldn’t be having that meeting now a a meeting that is repetitive like let’s say a manager’s meeting why sometimes they suck. Is because it is a data dump. It is a absolute data I treat meetings the same way I treat one on ones except even a bit more extreme if it’s my meeting that I’m running I should be speaking 20% of the time. The rest of my team is speaking 80. 24:12.30vigorbrandingAnd. 24:14.29Jason BrooksAnd that’s because at that point I’ve already done um key number 3 in the book which is delegate by creating many gms I have created many managers within each department and their goal is to report out on. What’s going on and those goals from from my many gms are linked to key number 1 master your kpis they understand what the kpis are they understand the human element that is behind it and they deep dive on that data and bring it to the table. So. When it comes to to key number 6 mastering your meetings. The main thing you have to do is understand that if you weren’t sitting down to make a decision. You shouldn’t be there and 2 if it is something that is a consistent meeting. It’s a 20% from the person that’s running it and 80% from everything else because when you do that you then build this ownership and a different view on things within your building I’ll say one last piece we have gotten into firefighting way too much. We have some amazing firemen and fire women within the hospitality industry but we’ve got to stop firefighting because when you firefight you shoot from the hip you see the fire you pull the hose out. 25:41.82Jason BrooksAnd you just start dumping water on that fire. But when a fire happens in a building think about it. You’re facing one side of the building and you can only see one side.. There can be several things that is going on all around that building. We’ve got to stop being. Fire men and fire women and we had to start being fire Chiefs A fire Chief has firemen and fire women all around the building putting out these fires for us and we can say the same thing about these meetings whenever you are fire chiefing your meeting your fire team. Understands exactly what’s going on but you have put them in places around your business to know where those spires are to where you have better control of everything else. 26:30.96vigorbrandingThat’s good analogy I mean I I love analogies and I think that makes it very so that’s why you’re good at what you do I mean it was very easily understood. Well done. Um, okay so training we talk about the importance of training right? and we ah we know it’s important to train. 26:32.72Jason BrooksAre. 26:44.63vigorbrandingAh, you feel it’s important for ongoing training which I think is interesting and and certainly makes an awful lot of sense. Um, why why is that I mean like let’s face it with with a turnover in this world with with people. Maybe they’re not going to be in the job for three months why would I spend so much time training them. Um you you feel that’s important. Let’s talk about that. 27:03.91Jason BrooksYeah I definitely feel that um, never stop training is one of the keys to being successful and of course we like to say it but we don’t really like to budget it. We can train our way in and out of anything. We really can. How we fall short of executing never stop training is that we don’t have a training plan that again goes back to what the plan is we have we have a training plan. Yes, but it’s a training plan one. That’s probably been the same training plan for the last 3 4 or 5 years versus each year do we sit down and say now that our objective is this? how are we training it’s not just how we hit that number. It’s not just growing digital sales. It’s not just getting better marketing. It’s. Do we have that included within the training poke in in the in the training program for our teams or are we just adding that in here and there second piece to never stop training is it absolutely as you and I both know it needs to be written down that that doesn’t mean. That our team currently trucks at sucks at training that means that our team has several things on their mind bills spouse car. All that good stuff they are going to lose their thought and their focus. 28:31.35Jason BrooksOn the thing that they should be training that that should be a core fundamental. That’s whenever that never stop training that checklist training helps because we we want you to say all the foundational things and with how long you’ve been with me I still want you to add on. That whipped cream the cherry and the sprinkles on top from all the things that you do well to but I want to make sure that the foundation of what’s being said to every single person is done last piece on never stop training I believe that you continue training. All the way up to their last day even if they put in a two week notice you train them all the way up to their last day and do you know why? because if you have 50 people that’s on your staff and you now have 51 because you are replacing one that put in their notice. It doesn’t help you by saying well I got one more so I’m a stop training the person who’s leaving no whenever you train the one that’s leaving you are also shifting that training you’re shifting that mindset you’re training them. How to onboard onto a different team even if it is your competitor you are training them how to get on board. How to get to learn the people how to get to learn their culture because a few things happen when that happens one everyone around you. 30:01.10Jason BrooksIt’s watching the attention you’re still putting into the person that’s leaving and they’re like that is a true coach and then number 2 number 2 is how many times is it that the grass is truly greener on the other side. So you shipped into the alma still keep training you I’m going to train you to be the next whatever that you are getting into. Let’s say you get there and it sucks guess what’s going to happen. Ah Jason ah I actually want to come back because grass isn’t greener. Then you’re able to now still build on your team but I truly believe you should never stop training even when they put in a notice. 30:42.62vigorbrandingYeah I Think that’s Great. We’ve had an awful lot. We call them. Boomerangs. We’ve had several people leave during the great resignation. You know for the grass being greener and we’ve had several boomerangs come back and you make another really wonderful point and that is people around you that are on your team that are staying on your team that are. Loyal and dedicated. They see how you treat people when they leave and um, that’s a reflection on you as a leader and I think that’s really important to to keep that in mind. Ah you know if you sit there and say bad things about somebody. You know the moment the door closes behind them just ah, that’s just really a poor reflection on and on you as Leader. So I think that’s ah I think it’s very sage advice. 31:08.00Jason BrooksAre you. 31:20.12vigorbrandingRight? So um, we talked about training another thing you talk about which I find this to be I think this is really important ah closing the gap between the restaurant manager and what the customer sees I mean again. Ah you know we always often say we’re too close to it I think that may be the case here with with managers you want to talk a little bit about that. 31:20.86Jason BrooksBrother I know. 31:39.10Jason BrooksOh yes I I love this topic um and closing the gap is is. It’s there because we live the 2 wheel life michael do you know what? the 2 wheel life is okay. 31:50.89vigorbrandingI do not know what the 2 wheel life is I don’t own a motorcycle so I assume that’s what it is but I mean maybe not. 31:56.87Jason BrooksIs that although our car has 4 Wheels we are pulling into the parking lot. So damn fast. We may as well be on 2 wheels and do you know why? because we’ve gotten that fourteenth text with the fifth picture about the close last night and our main truck call said that they’re short on drivers and now the truck order is due. third third 30 minutes ago and payroll calls someone forgot to clock out last weekend and you have to log into the portal and change your hours or else they can’t process payroll so that’s why you’re on 2 wheels. Doors open Bigfoot Dragon trying to get out the car and you walk up to the front the host and has a line and you’re like ah let me come help get these table sat bus some tables run to the back, get the line down. Finally get your truck order in fix payroll. But by this time. You are on fire. Your heartbeat is racing 120 beats per minute you are lapping like Nascar you’re touching tables. You’re pointing out things to clean and you’re like whoa girl I’m on fire this is amazing. You work a triple double that day heartbeat racing. And you get home somehow fall asleep and then your email goes off ding and it’s that guest complete a 2 on clean. They had a horrible experience. You just about flip your table but they’re lying no way I was there all day. 33:30.25Jason BrooksI worked the whole day I was lapping like Nascar I was touching on tables I was telling people what to clean. There’s no way. But there’s a gap. There’s a gap between what the operator experiences and what the guest does and that gap is because we are walking through like the terminator. Head on swivel I view Twenty feet out twenty feet wide looking for the next fire fire hose on the hip just looking for that next fire and we are standing at at an average five foot six height looking down to see what that next thing is. Our customers though. It’s very different their heart rate actually slows down when they’re pulling onto our lot first, they want to see are we open. They want to see is the parking lot. Clean does it look like someone lives here. They then pull up they get out. Ah, the car slow walk up to the door and then the the guest learned this trick from covid they now check the little slit of the door to see is the bar there because they don’t want to yank um, make on the door and pull their arm out their sockt like ah it’s open. So then they finally get in like yes I can stop eating from the dashboard of my car they walk in their heartbeats slow down things are good and then they sit down and they’re sitting at an average of three feet high heart rate heart rate has slowed down eyes are dimmer. 34:59.56Jason BrooksWhen your eyes when the the ah light is dimmer your your pupils actually get bigger and then whenever you’re looking at a distance of about eighteen inches from the table to your food. You are looking at that eighteen inch and then no higher than three feet while the manager heart rate fast 20 by 20 view and walking quickly. There’s a huge gap there in order to close that gap one of the things that that you have to practice which is hard is pulling yourself out the shift. Scheduling yourself to not be in position sometimes that’s hard. We are trained from day one that when things are short we are locked in. We make that happen. But at least once a week you have to take that customer view and I’m not taking and I’m not talking taking the view. Right? before it opens. That’s like having a super bowl ad well before the game starts when it’s peak periods walk out to your lot all way to the edge view. What’s going on because that’s when the most advertising is being done walk up through the lot. Then walk in then you’re listening in then you’re hearing what’s going on when you do this during peak volumes once a week even if you can’t once a month 36:24.00Jason BrooksThat helps you to understand what that what the guest is actually going through versus well before opening or after close. 36:33.99vigorbrandingThat’s great Jason I love your passion I got to tell you so like what? what’s what’s next for you. Ah, you’re making your rounds as the speaker I mean is there a new book any trips coming up. 36:44.20Jason BrooksAnd there is a if there is a pocket companion to the book that is going to be coming out. Ah the every leader pocket guide something that managers owners can can actually have on them. Ah, a flip book style to be able to keep them on track to never lead alone again. I actually have another ah session. That’s that’s coming up for the international bowl expo that’s going to be in Denver um I will be at the qsr. Evolution conference with Danny Klein I’ll be moderating one of the panels of how to scale culture. Um, there’s a few more speaking engagements that that I’m closing in on now. But it’s been very busy, but it’s been great I get to meet lovely people just like you just like your listeners and talk great shop about what’s going on and how to put that people piece with the numbers in order to better manage lead and coach. 37:47.34vigorbrandingYeah, it’s it’s awesome I mean this industry is a way of life and it is ah people dealing with people and I think that’s super important and it does make it very tactical and grounded and it’s ah it’s great to have people like you out there helping lead and coach and teach. So ah. That’s fantastic. So I have one last question. Let’s go I asked this of everybody if you had 1 last meal. What would you eat where and why. 38:10.40Jason BrooksI have 2 answers for that first answer is a place that I haven’t been yet but I hear great things about and my last meal for that would be Oso Buco from pierro’s in Las Vegas 38:24.16vigorbrandingNice. 38:26.68Jason BrooksAh, heard that they make some amazing. Oh so puco. But that that would be 1 that I haven’t been to but would love to um, second one is I’m going to cheat and say that I’m very. Egotistical and I love my own food if you just give me the food and let me cook it I will that will be more than glad to be my last meal. So I I would do brisket. It takes me about three days um beef brisket i’d. 38:51.52vigorbrandingWhat would be what what? what? What are you cooking for yourself. 39:00.41vigorbrandingNice. 39:02.74Jason BrooksI trim it my I trim it my my ah my ah self and then I will slather it with some horse radish I make my own rub. Let it sit for about 48 hours smoke it low until it gets to write about one sixty pull that baby out wrap it in some parchment paper. Put it back in. Let it get to 206 pull it out at 8 put it inside the cooler just a regular cooler for 4 hours slice that baby up make the barbecue sauce from scratch and then do a smoked bake mac and cheese. With some grilled corn and um, yeah, that’s it right? there? um. 39:44.65vigorbrandingIt sounds fantastic I even eat lunch day so I’m starving. That’s you did well that was that was as good as anything that’s beautiful, beautiful well done so hey listen Jason thank you so much for your time and your insights it was really really ah educational. Thank you. 40:00.59Jason BrooksThank you Sir and I do appreciate the invite you listeners have ah ah a wonderful time Fork tales. Thank you so much. This has been great. 40:07.34vigorbrandingAwesome! See you soon. 

Thanx is a leading loyalty and guest engagement platform for restaurants. The company, founded by Zach Goldstein in 2011, helps businesses embrace digital purchasing, capture greater customer data, and take action on that information to personalize guest engagement.Thanx builds digital UX – mobile apps and web ordering experience – that help restaurants differentiate themselves. Thanx also offers dynamic self-service loyalty programs that help restaurants break free from cookie cutter loyalty programs. Before joining Thanx, Emily was a business intelligence consultant.Restaurants face many challenges when it comes to data, including not having resources to analyze and take action on data available to them. They also don't have a good way to centralize the data and make it useful. Restaurants also struggle to capture enough data. Many loyalty programs fail to capture enough data because the programs are difficult to sign up for (often requiring an app) and they make customers jump through hoops to use the app or program. Thanx loyalty programs think outside the “Spend X, Get Y” box to offer unique loyalty programs that don't rely on discounts. That includes offers of special food items or LTOs to loyalty members or all day happy hour for loyalty members.  QUOTES “There's problems associated with getting data and then there's the problem of doing something with the data (after you get it) that's meaningful to the business.” (Emily) “Restaurants generally don't have the resources in house to help them make sense of the data that they have.” (Emily) “Far and away the most common challenge (for restaurants) is that they're not capturing enough data.” (Emily) “Most revenue is still flowing through in-store channels. This is where loyalty comes in.” (Emily)“Loyalty is the only proven mechanism for broadly capturing data and driving repeat purchasing from it. And yet, most loyalty programs don't capture enough data.” (Emily) “There are a few restaurants doing loyalty really well. For the rest of restaurants, those loyalty programs are all very similar ‘Spend X, Get Y' programs. Thanx allows you to build unique, differentiated, bespoke loyalty programs.” (Emily) “Not only do non-discount programs work better, they also cost less.” (Emily) “If you look at why restaurants aren't personalizing (programs), most of the time it's not because people think it's not important or it's not going to drive results. It's because it's really hard to do.” (Emily) TRANSCRIPT 00:00.00vigorbrandingHello Today’s guest is someone who knows a lot about data and loyalty programs which are two extremely important topics for restaurants and any brand for that matter. Our guest is Emily rugabier and she is the Vp of marketing for thanks with an x. So thanks for joining us Emily Rut Gaber I’m sorry I practiced it three times. So. 00:19.99Emily Yeah, happy to be here and you almost got it rugeber very close. Um. 00:27.57Emily So um, yeah, very happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks is a guest engagement and retention platform for restaurants. Ah so that’s kind of a mouthful so I’ll tell you what that means? um. We build digital ux so we build mobile apps and web ordering experiences that help restaurants sort of differentiate themselves their first -party ordering from their third parties as I’m sure this audience knows all too. Well, the third -party platforms are higher margin. They don’t get a lot of data shared with them about the customers. And they’re actually being served ads potentially from competitors on that platform and so there’s a lot of reason to want to have your customers order directly which we help brands do we also offer really dynamic self-service loyalty programs that help restaurants sort of bake. Break free from these cookie cutter programs. You know that they launch and then they never change and many of them don’t drive measurable results and then lastly we’re a complete crm and marketing automation platform really sort of differentiated in terms of ease of use. So. There’s a lot of platforms like ours on the market. We really focus on trying to make marketing as easy as possible. We know that every single restaurant that I talk to when I talk to their marketing team. They say they’re bandwidth constrained and they sort of laugh when I talk about this because it’s so true. 01:51.36Emily And they don’t have time to waste on the mechanics of creating campaigns. They want to do personalized marketing but they want to do it in a way that’s really easy so that they can get it done and prioritize it. 01:59.89vigorbrandingvery cool. very cool so okay so let’s talk data last year nation’s restaurant news said customer data is the Holy Grail of restaurant success and you know we have a data analytics company. We know that mining data is super important. We can learn everything that there is to know and. 02:06.30Emily Yep. 02:18.30vigorbrandingAllows us to make great decisions. So the same article reveal that 70% of restaurant operators don’t feel like they’re properly optimizing customer data knowing important how important data is why aren’t more restaurants making more use of it. 02:32.49Emily Yeah, and just a little bit about me I sort of mentioned to this to you before we were talking before I joined. Thanks I actually worked as a business intelligence consultant I was advising some of the largest enterprises I worked with nestle I worked with sap I worked with Target Virgin America and um. This is true, not just of restaurants. This is true with many many businesses. It’s certainly not a unique problem that restaurants have but the way I like to think about this because it’s such a large sort of meaty topic is to break it into 2 categories of problems. There’s the problems associated with getting data in and then there’s the problems associated with. 03:09.23vigorbrandingHere. 03:09.42Emily Doing something with that data that is meaningful to the business so sort of breaking it down in that way and just thinking about getting data in there’s ah you know a few common challenges that we see I think restaurants generally they don’t have the resources in-house to help them make sense of the data that they have. A lot of times they don’t have the technology as well. In the case where they do have some data a lot of times the data really lives in Silos and so they don’t have a good way to centralize it and sort of make sense of it and make it usable for their internal teams and the last challenge which I think is by far and away the most common challenge. Is that they’re just not capturing enough data and this you sort of have to break it down into the online aspects and the in-store aspects I think restaurants have gotten better at the online piece just in light of the fact that they’re transacting more of their business online. Although there’s. Ah, huge amount of room for improvement with online and then there’s the in-store piece I think most revenue is still flowing through in-store channels and so um, this is where loyalty comes in right? There’s ah. Ah, variety of other avenues for capturing Data. You know you hear about wi-fi marketing you hear about reservations. For example, Loyalty is really the only proven mechanism for broadly capturing data and driving repeat purchasing from it. Um, and yet most loyalty programs. 04:23.99vigorbrandingMan. 04:40.37Emily Don’t capture a lot of data and and that’s because I mean there’s ah, there’s a couple different reasons but that’s in large part because they make guests really jump through hoops in order to engage with the program. It’s difficult to sign up. You know you have to download a mobile app How many mobile apps. Do you have on your phone. 04:40.45vigorbrandingAnd. 04:58.66Emily Ah, maybe you have 6 or 7 but there’s a lot more restaurants than that so they force you to download a mobile app you have to show a qr code at the register in order to earn progress and you’ve got a line of 10 people who are frustrated at you because you can’t get internet on your phone. 05:18.51Emily They make it really really hard. This is an area where Thanks is really differentiated. 05:22.20vigorbrandingWe talk about a little bit more about Thanks how how is yours different. How does it look feel how how is it easier to use. 05:31.97Emily Um, yes, that’s obviously a really big question the way I like to think about it is there’s sort of 4 different categories where we’re differentiated. So like I mentioned before loyalty tends to be pretty one size fits all so you know. As a consumer going to restaurants. You know you obviously have engaged with the programs. There’s a few really sort of um, there’s a few restaurants that are doing this really really? Well right? We all know the Starbucks and the chipotles and the dominoes who are doing this really well. But for the rest of. Restaurants by and large those loyalty programs are all pretty similar spend x get y um, and ah, what thanks does differently on this dimension is we allow you to build really unique differentiated bespoke Loyalty Programs so that means going outside the structure of like a spend x get y you can do really cool things that don’t rely on discounts. For example, you can offer. Ah you know a special food item. Maybe an lto some throwback from. 06:39.86vigorbrandingSure. 06:42.19Emily Ah, the past that worked really well you can offer that just to your loyalty members for a short period of time or you can do you know um, all day happy hour for loyalty members or for a segment of your guests. You know your very best loyalty members and so creating a program that’s bespoke. That’s really. On brand doesn’t rely heavily on discounts as sort of the first area I already mentioned the piece around marketing really being designed for ease of use. There’s a variety of ways that we implement this but think of lots of automation really easy a b testing the interface. Self is really dynamic easy to use it loads really quickly all of that good stuff and then the last piece that I would say is really important is this intersection between online ordering and loyalty and this is not an area that most loyalty providers get right? because it’s really hard. 07:19.58vigorbrandingGreat. 07:35.43vigorbrandingI hope. 07:37.27Emily Every single loyalty provider and every single ordering provider are going to have distinct integrations that enable distinct capabilities and so being able to build a best-in-class integration with a variety of online ordering providers doing it in a way that’s really seamless. That’s really hard to do. That’s something that think does really well give you an example of that we have automated campaigns that you can turn on basically with a a switch of a button after you’ve designed an email which automates the process of ah you know. Incentivizing somebody to come back to an abandoned cart. So you’re about to order lunch. You realize you’re late for your meeting. You put the salad in your basket. You’ve got everything ready to go but you realize you have to go and so you leave that cart abandoned the next day you get an email that says hey why don’t you come back. 08:15.93vigorbrandingAnd. 08:33.45Emily You know, pick up where you left off here’s a dollar off to do so that can be completely automated. No ah you know, additional effort after the initial setup through things and through our partnerships with best in class ordering providers. 08:36.48vigorbrandingThat’s great. 08:47.22vigorbrandingYeah, because I mean to your point like a lot of loyalty programs are punch cards and stuff I still do one for my dog food. You know you go to punch it and and after 9 bags I get a tenth bag free and you’re you’re creating more of ah more engagement and almost like a. Ah, vip thing right? You’re treating people special by by by doing business with you being loyal there’s there’s hidden menu things like you said offers things like that and that probably and creates ah additional engagement I imagine right? and probably gets repeat visits visits and everything else. 09:09.83Emily Um, ah. 09:16.42vigorbrandingHow how successful has that been is that do you have any kind of ah information around that. 09:18.88Emily Yes, So there’s sort of 2 ways to think about that one is the success of the revenue that it drives and the other is the cost savings and I think on both dimensions we’re seeing that they perform much better than the alternative sort of more rote Programs. So. Um, and of course like this is that’s a broad statement. That’s not always True. You have to test these things you have to see what works which is something that we offer as well. But um, generally speaking we see about 4 times better redemption rates on targeted Non-discount rewards. 09:55.14vigorbrandingOh. 09:57.28Emily So that’s the first piece. Um, it’s kind of like when you go get on an airplane right? or like when you’re actually before you even get on the airplane when you’re buying your ticket. Maybe you go to kayak and maybe you look for the best price and you know maybe you find a flight but there’s certain airlines you’re not going to go on. 10:14.60vigorbrandingOh. 10:16.70Emily And there may even be that 1 airline that does cost a bit more but you go for it anyway because you know there’s a chance you might get upgraded or you know there’s a chance that you’re going to get better treatment from you know the staff ah because you’ve got that you know status and that you’ve earned. And so you know access to wi-fi these things that aren’t necessarily um, you know, direct to your bottom line but do make you feel this element of having status exclusivity et cetera so that’s one dimension. The other dimension is the cost savings. We see that. 10:35.80vigorbrandingI. 10:53.62Emily Not only do the non-discount reward work better but they obviously also cost less now some of these things have operational costs I’m not saying that. That’s not the case. Ah but a common ah idea that I tell restaurants all the time is take an existing menu hack something you are already doing you know your regulars they come in and they say hey can I get this sauce with this salad I Know it’s off menu. 11:06.83vigorbrandingAnd. 11:13.60Emily And they’ll do it for you because it’s easy take that put it on your menu make it a special. Um, you know members only exclusive or top tier member only exclusive and um, use that as an incentive it costs you nothing. 11:27.33vigorbrandingI love it. Makes everyone feel like an insider makes them feel special and endears under the brand. So what do you think is like the number 1 mistake that you see restaurants making when it comes to designing designing these loyalty programs. 11:30.59Emily Yeah, exactly. 11:41.20Emily Yeah, it’s a hard question because there’s a couple of them. Um I think a lot of times the the first one that I’ll say is I think a lot of times brands spend a lot of time upfront when they’re launching their loyalty program trying to come up with the perfect. 11:44.72vigorbrandingUm. 11:57.27Emily Idea for how the loyalty program should be structured I’ve actually heard of brands hiring very expensive management consultants and paying them hundreds of thousands of dollars to help them come up with their initial program structure and there’s not necessarily anything wrong with that. It’s expensive. I would suggest you know unless you can really justify that and have vetted that thoroughly just get started try something obviously talk to your loyalty provider and they should be able to provide best practices and recommendations but try it get started and then iterate on it. Once you launch the program your customers will tell you what they like right? you got a reward marketplace with 15 rewards in it and you’re seeing that you know 3 of them are never touched. That’s probably a good opportunity to reevaluate whether those rewards should be on the menu. Maybe they should be on the menu but they need to be. On the menu at a lower cost and you can figure out based on the effective discount rate of each of your rewards. What makes the most sense and what’s most cost effective. So that’s the first one is I would say like don’t overengine engineer the upfront setup but just iterate on it over time. The reality is. 13:07.61vigorbranding7 13:11.33Emily That’s really difficult to do in most loyalty platforms and so you have to talk to an account manager you have to do a six-week development cycle you have to do kind of like a transition a full relunch of the program. Um, so there may be some technology barriers there. But if you can. Try to think about it as like an ongoing iteration as opposed to a point in time thing that never changes brands on thanks change their loyalty programs on average 9 times a year yeah exactly the the other one that I would say is we regularly see brands. 13:35.13vigorbrandingFantastic I Assume you help them navigate that. 13:47.22Emily Prioritizing cost saving measures in loyalty program management opting for cheaper technology solutions or you know minimal rewards offerings. They don’t want to make that upfront and investment. But I think an over emphasis on. 13:57.22vigorbrandingYeah. 14:03.16Emily Cost savings can result in lower program participation and missed revenue opportunities in the long run. So when you invest in you know, high quality technology partner and sort of innovative reward structures. You can really start to maximize ah Roi of the loyalty program and drive that sustained growth which is the whole point. 14:20.60vigorbrandingVery cool I mean we see I mean everything about data is personalized customer experiences and I know that’s what you guys are all about but yet we still see all these restaurants doing this one size fits all stuff and it just doesn’t work. Does it. 14:34.95Emily Um, yeah, it’s I think that one size fits all marketing the broad base top of mind marketing does have a purpose you’re trying to stay top of mind. Um. That being set it has to be complemented by a more personalized approach for sure. Um I Think if you if you look at why restaurants aren’t personalizing most of the time It’s not because people think it’s not important or it’s not going to drive results. 14:50.19vigorbrandingHave you. 15:07.92Emily It’s because it’s actually really hard if you’re going to run a personalized strategy. You’re probably creating 3 emails instead of 1 or 5 emails instead of 1 somebody has to design those emails somebody has to determine what the strategy should be somebody has to. 15:20.58vigorbrandingAh. 15:25.25Emily Determine What the incentives should be and what the messaging should be. That’s that’s real work that someone has to do and as I mentioned before a lot of times these restaurant teams are really really small and they don’t have a lot of Bandwidth so it has to be really easy and I think um, the other challenge is maybe you put in that effort. And you put in that energy and then you run the campaign and you get a result and you say was that good was that bad I don’t know was it better than I would have gotten if I had done nothing is there something that I could have done that would have been even more important and so you’re left with this sort of unresolved state. 15:51.14vigorbrandingYou. 16:03.86Emily And now you’re thinking was all that effort. Really worth it and you just don’t know and so I think this is where multivariate testing can come in so you can actually sort of see okay was free fries versus the free shake versus doing nothing at all actually worthwhile and you just let the results of the campaign. 16:18.31vigorbrandingDrive it? yep. 16:23.13Emily Define What you do and ideally in the scenario where it’s something that you can automate you automate the heck out of it So you’re not forcing your team to rebuild and rebuild and rebuild. 16:33.25vigorbrandingMakes total sense so when we’re talking like data’s role in shaping how we use different tools. There’s there’s social media. There’s we talked a lot about email for marketing tools is there 1 that you prefer more is one more effective pros and cons can you talk about that a little bit. 16:45.66Emily Um. 16:48.53Emily Yeah I mean the devil’s in the details here. Um I think both social media and email marketing can be effective tools for restaurants but the effectiveness really depends on a variety of factors such as who the audience is what the goal is what the content strategy is. Um, I think the way I like to think about this and break this down I was actually I was at a conference last year I was at the meg conference the marketing executive group conference and I was sitting at a table. Um, there were like these roundtables and I was sitting at a table. 17:18.42vigorbrandingUm. 17:24.70Emily Talking to a bunch of restaurant marketers just sort of listening in. It was a facilitated session by another team and they were talking about segmentation. They’re talking about the challenges that restaurant marketers face with segmentation what they should do and the reality was I think everyone went around and they had like a hand raise of. Who here is doing any sort of segmented marketing and I I want to say like beyond just like the very very basic stuff and I want to say maybe 3 out of 10 people raised their hand and as I was listening to some of the challenges it really boiled down to. 17:55.40vigorbrandingAh. 18:00.81Emily Just don’t know where to start like I think a lot of times restaurant marketers are thinking about segmentation in terms of like demographic segmentation or maybe they’re thinking like you’re you know, very basic like your top spenders versus not top spenders. What I think is been helpful and what I’ve heard in talking with folks is really helpful is sort of this ah like idea of a framework for how to think about how do you even approach this stuff to start and there’s a variety of ways to do this that can be done really well. But if you’re trying to figure out where to get started I like to advise thinking about it in terms of the lifecycle. 18:35.95Emily Your customers who have only made 1 purchase or maybe 2 purchases. They’re very different than your customers who’ve come in 6 times and who have been coming in regularly once a month versus the people who haven’t been in it all in the last one hundred and eighty days and so think about the customer lifecycle in terms of. You to be acquired customers your to be activated customers meaning they need to have at least made 3 purchases in a certain period of time your engaged customers which are the people that you want to engage and incrementally improve their behavior. They’re also the ones you want to retain over time and then there’s the churned. Customers and there’s really no sense in spending a lot of time on customers that genuinely are not coming back to your business because they have demonstrated no frequency in the last year for example so if you think about it in terms of you know to be acquired activated engaged and churned. You can think about okay, well you know. The way that you’re going to talk to somebody who has only made 1 purchase should be very very different than the way you’re going to talk to somebody who comes in all the time and so for the group let’s say that you want to engage or excuse me that you want to activate. Um, you know think about how do you get that next incremental purchase. 19:50.43vigorbrandingWho. 19:52.63Emily You know from 1 to 2 and how do you go from 2 to 3 and once you get over that hump of activated. We actually see on our platform. We did a study a couple years back if you can get somebody to make a third purchase. They are actually 10 times more likely to come back than somebody who has only made 1 purchase. 20:08.74vigorbrandingAnd. 20:10.95Emily And so if you can get them to sort of start to build that habit they can be so much more materially impactful on your business and so just thinking about it that way and breaking it down in a way that sort of it. Maybe it seems a little bit simplistic. Ah, but even that can be difficult to execute on you can think about you know. Just for 1 campaign getting somebody from 1 to second purchase sorry from first to second purchase maybe you got to do a drip series of 3 outreaches and so to me getting back to your original question I think social media can be excellent for acquiring. 20:46.52vigorbrandingAnd who. 20:47.48Emily New customers. You can build like lookalike campaigns based on your existing customers that are really high value. You can build that lookalike campaign and try to acquire more customers like them I think social media can be excellent at that once you get into the lifecycle. Thinking about well what’s their preference. Maybe they’ve signed up to receive sms you want to use sms with that person. Maybe there’s somebody who said no I don’t want to engage on Sms you can use email so it really just depends. But I tend to think of social media as being a little bit more about acquisition. 21:12.60vigorbrandingAnd. 21:19.41Emily Email marketing being a little bit more about people who have opted in and said yes I want to receive emails from you. 21:23.40vigorbrandingvery cool. very cool it was funny last week I was speaking to a bunch of folks and we talk about they asked me to speak on food trends and we’ve been doing this trends presentation for 15 years and you know I looked back and I always like to look back see these trends that we predicted things that we talked about. 21:39.26Emily Are. 21:41.63vigorbrandingAre they relevant how did they evolve and in the very beginning I mean like twelve thirteen years ago the phones and everything were so new that it was like well we can tell people where your restaurant is like it was a big deal like ooh people can find me now and you know and that’s obviously just so so primitive at this point. And now it’s like it slides all the way up to say like food talk and everything else. So everybody wants to see the restaurant. They want to see everything about it. The food being made all the different things. Everything’s at our fingertips I mean and you you talk about the segmentation which is really super smart going back like the metrics have changed right? It used to be just about getting likes or or impressions. 21:59.90Emily Yeah. 22:16.11vigorbrandingSo you’re talking about all this all these conversions and you know marking dollars are finite. How are you making those conversions easier or at least more affordable to achieve how how is thanks helping with that. 22:18.70Emily Are. 22:27.11Emily Ah, yeah I mean that’s a big question. There’s a lot of different ways. Um I would say what you’re really talking about is like how do you justify the ah roi of a solution like things and um Roi is a pretty complex. 22:44.47Emily Calculation because there are so many different mechanisms to drive revenue and there’s so many opportunities to save costs. Um I think the obvious one is around you know revenue from spend or frequency lift from Loyalty members. Um. 22:57.97vigorbrandingWho. 23:03.12Emily We do a really good job of getting customers to sign up for loyalty as I mentioned and so if you think about there’s a metric called participation rate or capture rate which is essentially the percentage of revenue attributable to a loyalty member and that rate. Tends to be in like the 5 to 10 percent range for most restaurants we drive 30% in six months and that is through a variety of levers. But think of we don’t require you to download an app to participate in loyalty. We do a proprietary card linked. Ah tokenization which allows us to track purchases through credit card swipes instead of through you know these jumping through hoops that I was referring to earlier the combination of those things allow us to drive enrollment in. 23:48.60vigorbrandingUm. 23:56.36Emily I guess the the other one is we optimize digital ordering for loyalty as well. So that everyone who places places an order online is enrolled into loyalty and those things allow us to see something like 10 to 15 times the enrollment of our competitors and. That combined with of course the frequency lift. You’re going to see with any good loyalty program that you know have a bigger audience or are sort of more pool of revenue that can be influenced because you have the better capture rates and then of course you’re going to see the frequency and spend lift on top of that. So that’s like the primary one that’s kind of the obvious one. Um. With a more modern ordering ah user experience. You’re going to see higher order conversion rates. We see order conversion rates in like the eighty to ninety five percent range which is insane. 24:42.70vigorbrandingAh. 24:47.52vigorbrandingUm, right. 24:48.30Emily You also know you you’re driving people online people spend more when they’re online and so there’s going to be a natural lift from just driving more people into ordering. We talked about the cost savings from moving folks over from third party delivery over to first-part delivery one I I can’t remember if we talked about this at. Or not but just the cost savings from the removal of generic and unnecessary discounting. We see brands who are in like the 5% even like the 8 % discount range which is whoops which is quite a bit. A lot of our customers are in like the 1 to 2% effective Discount range. So that’s a huge area where you can see improved roi cost savings on campaigns obviously with a b testing things like that and then I think one that’s a little bit tougher to measure but is absolutely material is just the amount of time you’re saving for people who are not having to do as manual of. 25:23.63vigorbrandingAnd. 25:41.10Emily Ah, lift from a you know marketing perspective. 25:44.42vigorbrandingYeah, well I loved reading about your company I was impressed by the whole idea of ah trying to avoid the discounts for the loyalty all the time I mean let’s face it I mean giving people a discount is just that it’s cutting into their it’s cutting into their overhead their profit and everything else. So it’s great that you can just kind of keep them back and then the customer value. 25:51.48Emily Um, ah. 25:57.39Emily It’s. 26:02.22Emily O. 26:02.33vigorbrandingLifetime customer value the loyalty bringing them back over and over again 4 times. Ah, really obviously increases that we were talking to a restaurant last week at really nice restaurant. Really good revenues. Um, but they really weren’t getting people to do repeat visits. It was they were too infrequent. Ah. Actually maybe we should recommend your program I mean it’s ah it’s definitely. Ah, it’s definitely something they need because there’s nothing wrong with the restaurant. You know I mean it wasn’t the prices weren’t too high. The the quality of food was fantastic. Um, they just were not getting lots of repeat I think there’s a lot of competition in that marketplace. 26:20.11Emily Ah, oh please. 26:25.92Emily Her. Yeah. 26:35.45vigorbrandingAnd maybe people are just going around but a loyalty program I think would help them ensure that second that third and then on on and on and on visits. So I think that’s great. 26:38.58Emily Who. 26:44.34Emily Yeah I was actually just talking to Rob Ertman from mobatas he’s the Ceo of mobeters I was talking to him a couple of days ago and I was asking him for a case study about his. Ah, loyalty program and I couldn’t believe that words that were coming out of his mouth because it was exactly what me as a marketer wants to hear in terms of like trying to write a case study. He’s seen 7 straight months of positive same store sales comps and that is in light of the fact that they’re growing super rapidly. So there’s some cannibalization of existing sales that’s happening he had. 27:12.21vigorbrandingIn here. 27:16.70Emily 15 x increase in enrollment in 1 year versus his previous program which he had had for 5 years and they had seen almost immediately upon transitioning to thanks and actually their online ordering provider olo a 30% increase in digital sales and this was literally like he was just telling me this stuff. And I was of course like furiously writing it down as quickly as I possibly could that like you can’t argue with those results. He attributes a lot of that success to the partnership with thanks which of course we really appreciate but you know in reality it can be hard sometimes to measure. Um. 27:40.68vigorbrandingAh, yeah, it’s great. 27:52.61Emily You know how do you know? if you’re increasing customer lifetime value. How do you know? if you’re increasing frequency right? because it’s it’s heavily biased by how many new stores you’re opening and how many new purchasers are in there and so just being able to sort of relate it back to the real metrics that matter those same store sales comps et cetera that that was really powerful to me and you know. 27:58.41vigorbrandingWhoop right. 28:11.76Emily We of course would love referral over to whoever you were speaking with, but we do genuinely believe in the power of doing loyalty correctly and you know that that’s what gets me excited Obviously as I talk about this. 28:20.65vigorbrandingAbsolutely yeah, it’s great. Yeah, you’re passionate about it’s awesome I mean look let’s face it as marketers we get blamed for everything goes wrong. So when they when things finally go right? We’re allowed to take some credit I mean we deserve some credit there. So I’d get that guy on video and use that as a case study and have it in his words I’d be pushing that out to everybody. So I’m sure good. Yeah yeah I mean nothing sounds better than coming out of the you know the person’s mouth so that’s that’s awesome. 28:39.74Emily Ah, you can find it on our website now but I didn’t do a video I I probably should have ah maybe that’s the next thing. 28:48.57Emily Absolutely absolutely. 28:50.87vigorbrandingSo when we talk about these these these potential these well not potential, but the restaurant does it work for a single location restaurant white tablecloth is it. 10 locations is it a hundred I mean how scalable like talk about your sweet spot. 29:05.63Emily Yep, excuse me. Um our service is scalable and it can benefit multi-unit restaurants from I would say like 5 location establishments up to the biggest of the big chains. Yeah. 29:14.91vigorbrandingGot you very cool, very cool. Um, so like what’s next for. Thanks I Mean do you have anything new. You know it’s deep. It’s it’s it’s a tech so you guys are always working and and and rethinking and and recalibrating what’s what’s next is there anything you can talk tell us about. 29:28.37Emily Yes, we are very fastmoving I think we did one hundred and twenty five customer-facing releases last year alone and so there are lots and lots of things that we’re working on I know our our product and engineering teams work really hard which I appreciate. It’s a marketer because it gives me lots of cool stuff to talk about. Um. 29:33.70vigorbrandingWell. 29:44.52Emily The the big one that’s top of mind for me that I’m currently working on is the launch of a new capability which will allow brands right in the thanks Dashboard in real time to make an insane level of customization to their app experiences. So we already have we call it a ah cms a content management system. 30:01.31vigorbrandingTo have. 30:04.42Emily Which allows restaurants to you know interact with and change the user experience of the mobile mobile app right? from our dashboard we’re making that 10 times more customizable say so a lot of times brands are forced to make this choice between you know, either. They have to have a you know they they have to go with the branded app that’s available from the loyalty provider which is really inflexible or they have to pay for a custom app experience that costs a fortune and takes months to update anytime you want to make a change to it so this is basically going to help brands who. 30:30.83vigorbrandingDay. 30:42.57Emily To solve that problem without the expense and so we’re going to add a ton of customizability think about the styling like the way that you know the sweetgreens app looks with the drop shadows and the little refinements around the edges and just those nuances that make the mobile experience just feel. 31:01.57vigorbrandingUm, sure Yeah, that’s great word. 31:02.20Emily More modern and you know for lack of a better word sexier and so I’m really excited about this where yeah we’re we’re sort of enabling all of that through our dashboards which you know I I know that restaurants are gonna be really excited about because it’s It’s a reflection of their brand which is super important. 31:20.63vigorbrandingVery cool. Well Emily you’re fantastic I have ah 1 last question for you if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat where and why. 31:32.17Emily Um, I’m terrible at questions like this I’m sorry I’m okay at talking about marketing and thanks but terrible questions. It’s because I can’t make up my mind I love food and I yeah it’s like trying to narrow it down. So I I I think I would have to say um, some sort of tapas. 31:48.12vigorbrandingUm, nice. Yeah, it’s gonna say you know to make your decision here. It’s perfect. You covered everything that’s awesome. Well well this is great Emily is there anything else, you’d like to talk about any us you want to cover here I mean this is a great ah overview of the company what you’re doing. It’s ah it’s quite impressive. 31:49.72Emily Restaurant like a Spanish Spanish topist restaurant where I can get like a bunch of little small plates and not have to make up my mind. Yeah. 32:08.60vigorbrandingAnd ah, you know, really really? ah, really happy. We’re on the show. 32:10.42Emily Yeah, Thank you so much for having me. Um I Guess the last thing I would say is if you’re interested in talking about any of this stuff I Obviously love to talk about it happy to chat. So you can reach out and we have a you know form on our website where you can learn more about thanks and so you know. Let us know and we’re here to chat. 32:32.30vigorbrandingFantastic. Well thank you so much Emily we will ah certainly be in touch right? Bye bye. 32:34.91Emily Sounds great. Thank you. 

Duck Donuts is an American doughnut shop chain based in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. Duck Donuts was founded in 2006 in Duck, North Carolina, by Russ DiGilio and Robin Griffith, and has since expanded to over 100 locations in the United States. Duck Donuts is known for its made-to-order donuts in a variety of unique flavors. It recently opened a location in Thailand. Managing growth is something that Duck Donuts (and many franchises) pays careful attention to. The training program for franchisees includes an emphasis on consistent branding and quality. Duck Donuts franchisees typically own just a few locations and often work on a daily basis in the locations they own. The custom, made-to-order model is what differentiates Duck Donuts from its competitors. Duck Donuts is testing kiosks in stores and grab-and-go opportunities for customers who might not want to wait for donuts.  QUOTES “(Managing growth) is challenging. We try to set franchisees up for success in the beginning from a training standpoint and teaching them how we do things.” (Betsy) “We have smaller franchisees. A lot of them have two or three locations and come from different backgrounds.” (Betsy)“What really makes a franchisee successful is someone who has a small business mentality. They're accountable for their success or failure and we'll give them all the tools and resources they need to succeed.” (Betsy) “It's a lot of work and it's constant. Franchisees have to be in the store and know what's going on. Having that ability to work ON the business and not just IN the business is important.” (Betsy)“We do try to make (the ordering process) easier because it can be overwhelming for some people. The ability is still there if they want to customize their donut, but if they don't want to think about it and they want 12 suggestions, here you go, here's a couple to pick from.” (Betsy) “We're in growth mode. We opened 32 shops last year and we'll open 45 this year.” (Betsty) “Donuts are happiness and the world needs more happiness.” (Michael)  TRANSCRIPT 00:00.00vigorbrandingGreat hello I’m joined today by someone I’ve always wanted to have on this show. Betsy ham is our guest. She’s the Ceo of duck donuts and it’s one of the fastest growing donut franchises in the nation betsy. Thanks for joining us. 00:12.88Betsy HammThank you so much for having me. 00:17.00vigorbrandingSo I want to hear all about your story but the duck story. It’s it’s amazing to me and and kind of maybe fortuitous. The the idea I guess actually grew up in my neighborhood. My neighbor Russ was the is the founder and ah. 00:30.67Betsy HammYep. 00:31.37vigorbrandingIf you would tell us the story. You know how it comes from a little neighborhood and in in Pennsylvania and turns into this international and international business. What was the idea behind it how to come come about. 00:38.78Betsy HammSure so it’s crazy. It really didn’t stem out of your neighborhood right? Um, so as you mentioned Russ who’s the founder of rused gilio um had a beach house in the outer banks and these to go down there and you know one night they were sitting around. He emits drinking some wine and raminiscing about these warm donuts that they used to get and the boardwalk is kids growing up. And at the time in 2007 outer banks was um, pretty much a little sleepy town. There wasn’t really even any donut shops that were there. Um, so what started out as a whim when they the next day decided like hey this really has some legs. Let’s create a donut concept. Um, and open it here in the outer banks and Russ is a serial entrepreneur but did not have any food and beverage experience so reached out to one of his friends who helped put together the concept of duck donuts. So the first 2 shops opened in duck and Kitty Hawk ah North Carolina hence the name duck. Um, and it took a few years to catch on. But after about the third season because of course it’s very seasonal location and in the outer banks. It really took off and the people who came there every year just continued to create this cult like following for the brand. And people were asking him to you know, open up in my hometown send me donuts in the mail like I want these donuts more than once a year when I go on vacation. So Russ realized that there was this really huge opportunity that he couldn’t miss and decided to start a franchising company. So. 02:01.74Betsy HammUm, they sold their first franchise in 2013 in Williamsburg Virginia um and now fast forward to 20024 where we have about 150 shops in the United States in 22 or 24 states actually and then we’re also in 6 countries outside the us which has been crazy. So. Um I had the opportunity. Actually we opened in Thailand a few months ago and Russ came along with me for the opening and I said did you ever imagine you would be in Thailand listening to people speak thai talking about Doc Donance being so excited for this concept that just started as something fun. Um, for you to do it and you know he’s so humble about it and he’s just like absolutely not He’s like I had no idea something that started as like a fun side project in the ader banks would literally be um, you know sprinkling happiness across the globe and it’s pretty crazy. 02:52.77vigorbrandingIt’s awesome I mean and you obviously stay close to the branding everything you guys do which I personally truly respect and appreciate I think that’s fantastic. Talk about your journey your your duck donut journey. What did you start out and how did you come about this this ah duck opportunity. 03:07.79Betsy HammSure so I spent the first really half I guess of my career at her. She entertainment resorts in marketing so various marketing roles for the sweetest place on earth which of course was a really amazing job. But it’s really always kept um my ear out there for if there was any opportunities that came up that made sense. And a friend of mine had said duck donuts is opening their corporate headquarters here in the Harrisburg area where where I live in Pennsylvania they want someone to come in and build their marketing team and to be honest I had never even heard of duck donuts I had never been to the outer banks. Um, but I had texted a few of my girlfriends who did go every year I said hey the duck donuts. 03:34.80vigorbrandingHe soon. 03:42.87Betsy HammPlace in the outer banks like they’re looking for a marketing person and they both were so emphatic about the fact that I had to take this interview like it’s the best thing ever that would be the most amazing dream job and I’m like wow these ladies are so excited about a Doda concept. Um, so with that excitement I definitely had to take the interview and and came in and met with ah Russ who was the Ceo at the time and of course the founder and the Ceo and you know Russ painted this picture of here’s this brand that people who know it love it and we want to make it at the time we were sick into the us um a national a national brand. Um, so having that opportunity as a marketing person to come in and you know there’s this love and loyalty for this brand but we have to make it more sophisticated. Um, of course it was very mom and pop when it started out. Um so having the opportunity to come in and start from scratch of. You know, logos and and brand voice and style and and I remember talking to the marketing person who was here at the time like why are we not posting pictures on social of donuts like we keep using these illustrated donuts and there’s a couple ducks going on. Um and she said well we don’t have any pictures of donuts I was like oh. 04:34.70vigorbrandingUm, no. 04:45.90vigorbrandingSo right? yeah. 04:49.27Betsy HammSo you know had this opportunity to kind of start at the base of the foundation and really help take this brand and make it more sophisticated and elevated as we’ve continued to grow. So um, started with a company seven years ago in a marketing capacity and probably about a year and a half after I was here. Ah Russ said you know I think you should take on more. Um, and getting ended up getting promoted to co o which you know they don’t usually let marketing people in charge of operations but um manage to yeah hey worked da um, so did the c o roll for a few years and then um is almost three years ago which is crazy. 05:15.61vigorbrandingFor good reason by the way for very good reason. Ah. 05:26.50Betsy HammAh, you know Russ was always very clear that at some point he’s going to take this company as far as he could when need to bring in um, some additional expertise additional cash. Um, so he sold the company to a private equity group in April of 2021 um and at that time is then you know when I when I was promoted to Ceo so it’s been. It’s been a wild journey and something I would have never. 05:40.91vigorbrandingUm, it’s awesome. It. 05:46.70Betsy HammAnticipated you know 8 ten years ago when I had never had even heard of the brand let alone to be to be a Ceo. 05:52.64vigorbrandingIt’s it’s amazing and and congratulations. It’s awesome I mean I guess I can I can I can understand certainly don’t have a global business but I started out as ah, just a marketing guy. A creative guy started my own business and now I’m Ceo and it’s sort of like. 05:59.95Betsy HammSo. 06:07.28vigorbrandingIt’s amazing what you did then and who you were then and what you do now I mean talk a little bit about that I mean that’s got to be different. You got to and not that you don’t get to do it now. But you’re this marketing person. You brought the fun you sprinkled for fun into everyone’s life that kind of thing and your personality exudes that. And I as we Ceo. What’s what’s that what’s that like. 06:24.77Betsy HammYeah, yeah, you know it’s um, it’s making sure you’re stay focused on the right stuff and and letting the experts and on the team do their job and you know it’s It’s funny because and you mentioned this like with your curse. Sometimes you do things that you don’t even realize do have an impact on where you end up. Um you you probably didn’t think that you were going to open your own. 06:42.54vigorbrandingNow. 06:43.82Betsy HammAgency and be the Ceo and that was certainly never on my you know 1020 year plan um so I think sometimes as you go through and have these experiences sometimes it starts to become a little bit more clear that this may work. Um and I remember when rust talked about selling the company I was like oh they’re going to bring somebody in but but during that time it was covered and. 06:58.28vigorbrandingIn here. 07:03.12Betsy HammYou know he had kind of taken a step back and was like hey I’m going to let you run this I’m here to support you I’m I’m here for assistance. Um, and that’s those like wait a minute I I kind of like this but and I kind of like the direction we’re going so you know, let’s continue to to head down that path. Um, but it is different because you know you have to let the experts and the and the team around you. And just make sure I’m providing tools resources make sure I have the right people in the right seats. So. It’s very different in the day to day and you know trying to make sure I don’t just gravitate towards you know one department or anything like that that I have that well-rounded understanding of what ops is doing and obviously the financials is. 07:31.55vigorbrandingYou. 07:39.33Betsy HammHuge piece of the success of the company. So um, yeah, you definitely have to be a lot more well rounded. But I think having the right people around. You makes that a lot easier to do. 07:48.44vigorbrandingNo doubt no doubt did the whole financial side of things did that come easy to you or is that like something you had to because we all do we gra gravitate towards what we love to do right? and I think that’s ah you have a very grid lesson in there that you got to be love all your kids the same. You got you got to deal with all the things with the same amount of passion. 08:01.74Betsy HammUm, yes. 08:06.23vigorbrandingAnd vigor as you would the things you love to do so did that come come easy to you I mean was that something was pretty natural or. 08:10.95Betsy HammUm, you know it wasn’t too bad I think even when I was at Hershey I think very early in my crew I had the opportunity to be exposed to a lot of different departments I mean we worked very closely with operations and we needed to understand the operations mindset. 08:21.25vigorbrandingUm. 08:23.23Betsy HammUm, and I actually went back to grad school I think it was out of um undergrad probably like 2 years to get my Mba and part of that was the financial piece of it and to give the marketing person credibility that look I understand a p and l I understand numbers I might not be able to sit there and be an accountant or a financial analyst. But. 08:29.47vigorbrandingGood. 08:40.70Betsy HammYou know, give me the data and I can I can make decisions. So um, luckily I had a a bit of a knack for that and and again just as that kind of was something I needed to focus on and I admit when you don’t understand something I think is huge I I think we all would not always show our weaknesses so people pretend like they maybe understand something. So. 08:56.15vigorbrandingUm. 08:58.73vigorbrandingUm, and yet. 08:58.87Betsy HammYou know, not being afraid to ask those questions or say time out I need to understand why this happens or what does this mean or why do we care about Ebada or whatever it is. Um I think it’s really important to ask those questions editing point in your career. 09:06.60vigorbrandingI Think that honesty yeah that honesty and clarity and and and and transparency is huge I I Jokingly well I It wasn’t even joking when I started my company. It was funny I got quoted in the into some of the trades and and. My friends framed it and sent it to me because they they they thought it was a joke and I said my business model is pretty Simple. My goal is to be the dumbest person in the building and you know I want to hire everybody in the company smarter better brighter than I am whatever it is that they have to do and it’s always worked. It’s ah sort of a secret weapon and. 09:28.28Betsy HammUm, ah. 09:38.35Betsy HammUm I Love that? yeah. 09:39.37vigorbrandingYeah, just you know in in ask questions and and and and hopefully you know you’ll you’ll you’ll get the right answers and and and grow from it. So um, so a hundred locations 22 states Saudi Arabia I mean how how do you manage that you go from. Again, the marketing side of things to now. What’s the secret. How do you manage that growth. 09:56.41Betsy HammIt is challenging and I I think whenever. Well even when you have 1 location of a brand. It’s it’s hard right? But then when you multiply that times 100 and you have different owners running each of these local businesses. It’s certainly challenging so we try to set. Franchisee up for success in the beginning from a training standpoint and here’s how we do things and this is what duck donuts looks like and sounds like and this is how um, we’re going to operate and you know the 1 thing that I keep really hammering home to the franchisees is we want duck donuts to be known for a superior product with an exceptional customer experience and it sounds basic. But. If. We can be consistently a superior product and provide an exceptional customer experience that’s going to make everyone’s lives better and easier people are going to come back more often. Frequency will be there. Um, so we try to provide all the tools and for order that to happen in order for that to happen. Um, but it’s tough. 10:47.65vigorbrandingUm, you had. 10:49.21Betsy HammYou know because it’s it’s human and and people are going to kind of have their take so you know sometimes on social media if we get tagged and stuff or there’s user-generated Content. You sort of cringe. Maybe when you see the donuts that are going out the door that aren’t consistent or there are you know some local marketing messages that aren’t on Brand. Um, so it’s trying to really make sure we educate upfront what the expectation is and then just hold people and franchisees accountable as we move forward? Um, but for giving those tools and resources it should help Um, but it is It is tough when everybody kind of has a little bit of their own opportunity to to make a spin on the Brand. So. Do have to remind franchisees at times so that it’s it is ducked and it’s that’s that’s name on the door. 11:29.68vigorbrandingYeah I’m sure because I know from personal experience. We’ve dealt. We’ve dealt with a lot of ah ah franchisee groups and you know you have smart people that own these businesses. Um, they have their livelihood tied into it. They have an awful lot of passion for it and. 11:35.21Betsy HammSo but is this. 11:42.37Betsy HammUm, absolutely. 11:44.37vigorbrandingBut yet they have to adhere to the controls because you know the consistency you bring is key and that’s that’s the livelihood that for everybody ultimately and I think sometimes that’s tough to understand is there a secret secret is there a special type of franchise z that you look for because I know like I’ll say again in my experience. I know some folks that are like master franchisees. These guys might own 5 different brands. Ah they might have 30 different stores in one brand and they have these like like corporations I mean they have to have their own hr their finance I mean they’re you know they’re they’re very large businesses but they’re they’re dealing with multiple due. Is there a certain type of ah. 12:13.75Betsy HammUm, oh yeah, yeah. 12:21.44vigorbrandingThe franchisee that’s perfect for duck downs. 12:22.10Betsy HammSo currently, what our franchisee system looks like is we have the smaller franchisee so a lot of them will have you know 2 3 locations. They’ve come from a different background whether they used to be in education or in marketing or in finance and they wanted to be a small business owner. So. But really makes a franchisee successful or somebody who has that small business owner mentality. They’re accountable, um, for their success or their failure and and we’ll give them all the tools and resources that they need in order to succeed. Um, but they really have to have that drive and motivation and and and ability to be able to move the brand forward on that local level. Um, and you know I think the 1 thing because we have that smaller business model. But if it’s you know the average franchisee has 2 locations. Um, they have to be in the store right? like this isn’t like ah set it and forget it and you know I’ll just build it and they will come. It’s you know so easy I mean that’s. 13:06.78vigorbrandingAnd he. 13:14.67Betsy HammUm, it’s a lot of work and it’s constant. So our franchisees have to be able to be in the store and and know what’s going on but having that ability to work on the business and not just in the business is really important and it’s hard to you know, a lot of times you’re going to get um, dragged into the weeds of hey the fire is networking or someone didn’t showt for their shift. Um, so it’s the ability to be a little problem solve on the fly. Um, and oh by the way manage a team because now you have probably on average 17 year olds um, working in your shop and now you have thirty seventeen year olds that you have to you know, keep engage and have them understand this brand and the concept and and deliver that amazing experience. So it’s a. 13:47.87vigorbrandingUm. 13:53.75Betsy HammIt’s an incredibly tough job and to your point you know Franchisees Invest a ton of money some you know college savings or life savings or whatever it is um to have that small business owner opportunity so we want to do whatever we can to to help support them and and make that dream a reality. 14:08.86vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. Do you have like is there a thing like hey we don’t allow anybody have more than five is there any kind of a corporate rule or just kind of play it out like as it goes. 14:15.78Betsy HammNo yeah, um, we do have a few that have 5 ah is the most. But um, no, not really, we actually just sold a 12 shop deal in um, Chicago last and enroll in 2023 um, but to your point he is a sophisticated franchise owner that owns another brand has the infrastructure has the team. Um, so I think as we grow and our brand becomes more sophisticated. We’ll end up with more of those I mean I don’t know if we’ll ever end up with the franchisees who have. 14:30.16vigorbrandingUm, even yep. 14:38.24vigorbrandingGot you. Here. 14:43.52Betsy Hamm50 or 100 brands like some of them. But you know 10 20 locations. Um, there’s certainly the opportunity for that to be to be built out as they go. 14:52.35vigorbrandingThat’s awesome. So I love the custom made you know to order donut model I think it’s great. Your product’s phenomenal I get to try it. Obviously it’s local to me. It’s at ah at the beaches I go to I mean it’s everywhere I go which is awesome. 15:03.40Betsy HammAre. 15:03.73vigorbrandingSo what separates stuck donuts from the competitors like the crispy creams or the dunk the Dunkin donuts that’s the names we hear a lot what what makes you so different and and then the other thing too is what what I feel is really kind of cool is like look they’re not. They’re not inexpensive as far as donuts go oh it’s not a lot of but if know theres things wild wild animals. no no worries 15:19.85Betsy HammUm, I’m sorry of course somebody rings my door hold on one second, let’s go go? yeah. 15:22.32vigorbrandingAh, good. Ah, no worries. 15:28.71vigorbrandingWe just done it this right? Oh it’s no problem. We we just will just edit that chunk. It’s all good. It’s all good. Yeah, we’re great. We’re great now, Please So yeah, so yeah. 15:33.86Betsy HammIt never fails when I’m on something like that that somebody rings the doorbell. Okay I figured you could just edit that sorry I think they stopped okay the the negative of being at home. Not the office. 15:47.56vigorbrandingAh, um, should I start that question again and okay so I what I was saying let me say I love the custom made-to-order donut model. That’s a big part of what separates duck donuts from competitors like we hear of crispy cream and Dunkin donuts to me. It’s always amazing though because ah, they’re Customade. It is a unique, ah different kind of concept. And then there’s a cost associated with it which and rightfully so they’re they’re basically more expensive and still not a lot of money but you know it’s one of those things. How did that all come to be like what is talk about the the competitors and how what separates you and the whole custom made to order concept. 16:18.63Betsy HammSure so that’s certainly been our differentiator is that is the custom made to order concept and your donuts are always fresh, right? So when you walk into a duck donuts. You don’t see any donuts which is very unusual for any of our competitors and sometimes confusing when we open in new markets or new countries. Ah, that you have to go in. You have to decide what you want and will make it fresh and you get to watch the experience if you choose um so that certainly has been our differentiator is is the warm, the customization. Always fresh. So it’s really continuing to embrace that um, because that is our usp. Ah, but then also make sure that we have the ability to deliver on customers’ expectations if they don’t want to wait so that’s been something that we’ve really been focused on in the last year or 2 of course we don’t have drive-frus we’ve talked about it and right now we just think we’re going to really lean into um the customization and the warm piece which would be really hard to do. And a drive-th through model. Um, but what do we do from a convenience factor that if I don’t want to wait for my donut that I can get it faster. So of course there’s things like online ordering. We now have kiosks and shops as well and we’re testing some other more like grab and go opportunities here in the coming months so we want to. Stay true to what’s made us so successful but also be able to reach those customer um expectations from a convenience factor which we know all has become very important over the last several years for sure. 17:29.31vigorbrandingUm, okay. 17:36.95vigorbrandingAbsolutely so like I love the process of building my own personal donut and I think it’s a lot of fun. So let’s have some fun I’m gonna throw some. You guys have so many great like flavors and and combinations I’m gonna throw some different toppings out and I want you to tell me what you feel is the coding things and you you go from marketer to now you’re gonna be the donut Chef the donut creator. Okay. 17:53.22Betsy HammUm, okay yes, um, chocolate vanilla. Okay, so we need to add to this like chocolate. 17:56.80vigorbrandingSo Chopped peanuts all right oreo cookie pieces Graham Cracker crumbs there you go perfect. Okay, chopped bacon very good I would put peanut butter in here too. But that’s just me it shredded coconut. Very good. 18:10.12Betsy HammAnd marshmallow to make it like a some more. Um, maple Oh yeah, yeah, um, lemon. 18:25.48vigorbrandingI See you guys do these things with the the great names and the great brands and the great taste. What’s the the peanut butter. It’s um I Forget the name of the one with the bacon. Yes, yes, what’s there’s one that what’s the one has the bacon on it all the time bacon in the sun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, is that right? and that’s that’s. 18:30.87Betsy HammOf the peanut butter and paradise oh bacon in the sun. Our number 1 selling donut is the bacon donut I far like not even close to the net number 2 18:44.23vigorbrandingWow, That’s incredible. That’s incredible and so like I mean these the people like you said there’s no donuts in windows people walk in are they are they at all nervous about like oh I’ve got I’ve got to talk to people and and make this thing I mean this is new to me is it ah is there a little bit of ah apprehension there or you hear. 19:01.10Betsy HammAbsolutely yeah, oh there is and it’s funny because it’s something that we have been focused on the last um several years and even back to when I started never going to aduct on it and somebody handed me an ordering pat at the time and I was like I don’t even know what this is this is too much to think about. 19:01.93vigorbrandingAh, is there. Okay, good. 19:15.60Betsy HammUm, so a few years ago we introduced assortment guide. So ah at the counter. There’s some countermats that you can pick donuts that are already created. So of course we have seasonal donuts we have lto flavors like right now we have a jelly donut where the jelly’s just like in the middle of the donut. Um, so we do try to make it easier because it is overwhelming and it can be. A lot to think I don’t know what I want or what? what do I put with what especially if you’re building a half dozen or a dozen so we do make a lot of suggestions for dozens and half dozens and even donuts and and to be honest, that’s majority of what people order whether it’s online or or in shop as they’re picking what’s already created. So. Ah, that’s actually a focus of ours right now from what that customer experience is in shop. You know what do those assortment guides look like what’s on the menu boards. Um, how do we help the speed of service and just take out. Um the decisionmaking process for the for the customers if they don’t want to do it. Of course the ability is still there. Um, if they want to customize their donut. But. 20:08.49vigorbrandingUm. 20:12.17Betsy HammThey don’t want to think about it and they want 12 suggestions here. You go here’s a couple to pick from um just to make it a lot easier and simplify the process. 20:18.66vigorbrandingYeah mean that’s smart too because it be well let’s face it people you said they don’t know ah know there’s a reason vanilla is the number 1 selling ice cream right? So I mean you just you know people don’t know unless you show them all the options and and you guys do a great job of that you have so many unique kind of combinations that it’s almost like I gotta try that is that is that good. 20:25.97Betsy HammUm, right? ah. 20:35.49vigorbrandingYou know and and to your point then you know a bacon donut being the number one flavor I don’t think anyone would assume that ever ah but you guys set that up and and make it happen. Yeah. 20:40.11Betsy HammRight? right? and consistently for years I mean I think since I’ve started and even just says our 23 numbers came in. It’s still number one which just amazes me. 20:51.58vigorbrandingThat’s funny now you guys do a lot of philanthropic stuff Charity overlays things like that. Do we talk a little bit about that. 20:55.28Betsy HammSure, um, so we started partnering with Makea wish last year and thatt national campaign will be coming up in April or may timef frameme this year where each one of our locations throughout the us raises money for their local chapter of Makea-w wish so. Um there’s a makea wish donut with blue and white sprinkles. Of course you have the opportunity just to donate at the point of sale or online. Um, when you’re checking out. Um, so that’s been a really great new partnership. Of course they’re about families and kids which we are as well. Um, so in addition to having that national partnership. We have a program. The umbrella called quack gives back which is. 21:23.98vigorbrandingToss me. 21:30.23Betsy HammSome great little um tag to tie into the brand. Um, but we really challenge our franchisees to be involved in their local community. So but we have everybody involved in the makea wish campaign they have the ability to partner with whatever organizations important to them in their local community. So. Um, and those can look differently from whether you know it’s a boys Club Girls Club Pta different fundraisers. Um but partnering with their local community Nonprofits. We think is very important for us to be able to give back on that national as well as local level. 22:02.50vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. You know I have to I throw this out because I mean you guys have such a cool brand and you know you look at different things and in in the world to sort of combine like pop culture things. It seems like there might be an opportunity for you guys. Yeah, you have the little little rubber duck right? Really cool. Well brandnded. 22:16.10Betsy HammUm. 22:16.82vigorbrandingYou got the speech vibe going right? So I’ve seen all these guys with jeeps I’m not a Jeep guy I’m actually a I’m a land cruiser guy which is similar but not a Jeep guy. So but I’m seeing all these guys with with rubber ducks ducking each other whatever want to call it with their jeeps so you got jeeps you got the beach you got ducks you got duck donuts you guys got to get involved in that somehow somehow we got be giving away donuts. There’s something there. 22:25.96Betsy HammYes. 22:32.84Betsy HammI know I know yes well and you know what’s funny is we have um just on a local level. A lot of deep meetups will happen in duck donuts parking. Lots. 22:35.22vigorbrandingThere’s something there. 22:42.00Betsy HammAh, so they’ll go in. They’ll buy some ducks. They’ll grab some donuts and they do these meet ups and parking lots but I agree like on a big national partnership level that would be amazing gas. Yes oh I like that. 22:45.14vigorbrandingIt’s perfect. Yeah, yeah,, let’s let’s give away a Jeep for the Beach. You know I think you got something there I think that’s ah you know I think that works So that’s awesome. Um, is there anything else you want to talk about as far as the the franchise. What makes a great franchisee. Which the future hold for duck donuts anything else. You want to throw in before I got a couple other questions but I wanted to open it up to you. 23:03.27Betsy HammYeah I mean we’re just we’re in yeah, we’re in growth mode. So we open 32 shops last year we’ll open 45 this year and want to continue to build that so you know just focused on buildinging the brand across the us as well as globally. Um, and getting our existing shops to be more successful. So while the growth of opening shops is very important. We want our existing franchisees to be more profitable more successful. We want them to open additional shops. Um, so of course this has been a 2023 was a challenging year from. Um, a transaction standpoint for a lot of people within the food and beverage industry. Ah people obviously are are watching their spend a little bit and as much as we would love to think people eat donuts every day. Um, so we just have to become more innovative and and more driving of how we’re going to get people back in the door. Um, more frequently. So that’s been. That’s really what we’re focused on right now. 23:52.69vigorbrandingVery cool. It’s amazing to me I go from my my neighborhood in Central Pennsylvania to your Cairo Qatar and Thailand I mean it’s just it’s ah it’s mind boggling you know. 23:58.48Betsy HammUm, yeah, right, it is mind boggling I agree. 24:03.59vigorbrandingSo you know one one other thing when this time of year I mean let’s face. Everyone’s hard starts thinking about working out and eating healthy and all that and donuts don’t necessarily slide right into that that routine. Do you see that as a problem is that is this ever become an issue seasonally. 24:16.94Betsy HammYou know what? January and again I think sometimes just january is that people are recovering from the holidays and spending money and eating and drinking a lot during that time. So January is certainly always a slow time of year for us. Um, but after that you know it’s. 24:22.67vigorbrandingUm. 24:30.53Betsy HammAll about moderation right? of course and in the court we sell coffee and we sell ice cream So you know there’s lots of reasons to to come into duck. Um, that maybe is a little less calories. But you know certainly moderation is certainly good for everyone. Absolutely. 24:32.10vigorbrandingUm, yep. 24:39.74vigorbrandingI mean donuts are happiness and the world needs more happiness. So you know it’s just just goes hand in glove with donuts. So all right? So if you had ah when if you went into your local duck donuts. It can only order one donut. What are you ordering. 24:54.14Betsy HammI’m actually ordering which I built earlier the samoures donut if it’s not fall because our fall donut is an Apple donut which is my favorite donut but you know that’s that’s seasonally yeah the Apple donuts and next fall when it comes around and definitely suggest. 24:55.20vigorbrandingUm, ah, very good, very good who that is your all-time favorite. The Apple done it I’ll try it. So what’s there’s more than just Apple come on you guys you mean you’t just do 1 thing to it. What else is done to it. 25:08.65Betsy HammTrying the Apple done it. 25:13.80vigorbrandingIs just Apple. okay okay I like that nice, well done well done. Oh perfect. Yeah, it’s fun. It’s great. 25:13.94Betsy HammUm, well yeah, it’s like Apple pie filling if that makes sense that’s sitting in the middle of the donut with vanilla icing and if you want to get fancy. You could drip some caramel on there or you know, add anything else like that some cinnamon sugar cinnamon sugar donut with the Apple pie filling. So yes. 25:32.29vigorbrandingOkay, so the last question I asked this to every guest if you had 1 final meal and you can’t say a donut ah and it can’t be done. Its so what would you eat and why what would your last? What would it be. 25:42.47Betsy HammUm, so I would definitely not have to think too hard about this. It would be Mexican like I Love Mexican food so give me like a good taco platter with like beans and rice and like salsa and guacamole and some chips that would be perfect. 25:53.80vigorbrandingAwesome! Very good, very good. Well listen this was fantastic betsy I mean yeah yeah, you just ah you exude the happiness of duck donuts and I’m just I think it’s amazing. What you’ve built and you guys should be very proud and it’s a. 26:00.52Betsy HammThank you. 26:06.90vigorbrandingIt’s ah, a really great brand and and you’re spreading happiness which is always a good thing. So thank you so much for your time sprinkling Happiness I’m sorry sprinkling happiness. So I apologize that’s ah but that’s fantastic. So thank you so much appreciate. You spend time with us. Thank you, You got it. 26:10.83Betsy HammUm, sprinkling sprinkling happiness. Kidding. Thank you Thanks for having me.

/*! elementor - v3.19.0 - 07-02-2024 */ .elementor-widget-text-editor.elementor-drop-cap-view-stacked .elementor-drop-cap{background-color:#69727d;color:#fff}.elementor-widget-text-editor.elementor-drop-cap-view-framed .elementor-drop-cap{color:#69727d;border:3px solid;background-color:transparent}.elementor-widget-text-editor:not(.elementor-drop-cap-view-default) .elementor-drop-cap{margin-top:8px}.elementor-widget-text-editor:not(.elementor-drop-cap-view-default) .elementor-drop-cap-letter{width:1em;height:1em}.elementor-widget-text-editor .elementor-drop-cap{float:left;text-align:center;line-height:1;font-size:50px}.elementor-widget-text-editor .elementor-drop-cap-letter{display:inline-block} Broaster Company is an American foodservice equipment manufacturer headquartered in Beloit, Wisconsin. The company is the leader in providing high quality pressure fryers and branded food service programs for over 65 years. “Broasting” is a unique cooking method developed in 1954 when Broaster's inventor and founder L.A.M. Phalen combined the principles of a pressure cooker and a deep fryer into one commercial cooking appliance. The results – in quality, flavor and cooking speed – were revolutionary.Only restaurants and food service providers that are licensed to use genuine Broaster Company equipment can offer “broasted chicken” on menus. Protecting that trademark and licensing is important to the Broaster Chicken team. In many restaurants, broasted chicken is a champion menu item and sold to restaurants as a featured menu item. Broaster Company has been a global business for as long as the company has been incorporated. The company has a distributor in the Middle East for the past 60 years.  /*! elementor - v3.19.0 - 07-02-2024 */ .elementor-heading-title{padding:0;margin:0;line-height:1}.elementor-widget-heading .elementor-heading-title[class*=elementor-size-]>a{color:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit}.elementor-widget-heading .elementor-heading-title.elementor-size-small{font-size:15px}.elementor-widget-heading .elementor-heading-title.elementor-size-medium{font-size:19px}.elementor-widget-heading .elementor-heading-title.elementor-size-large{font-size:29px}.elementor-widget-heading .elementor-heading-title.elementor-size-xl{font-size:39px}.elementor-widget-heading .elementor-heading-title.elementor-size-xxl{font-size:59px}QUOTES /*! elementor - v3.19.0 - 07-02-2024 */ 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100%;-webkit-mask-repeat:var(--divider-pattern-repeat);mask-repeat:var(--divider-pattern-repeat);background-color:var(--divider-color);-webkit-mask-image:var(--divider-pattern-url);mask-image:var(--divider-pattern-url)}.elementor-widget-divider--no-spacing{--divider-pattern-size:auto}.elementor-widget-divider--bg-round{--divider-pattern-repeat:round}.rtl .elementor-widget-divider .elementor-divider__text{direction:rtl}.e-con-inner>.elementor-widget-divider,.e-con>.elementor-widget-divider{width:var(--container-widget-width,100%);--flex-grow:var(--container-widget-flex-grow)} “If you were to take the Dakotas over to Ohio, go down probably to Kentucky – that is where the Broaster market is. As people move outside the midwest, that's how the name spreads.” (Jay) “If you want to say that you're serving broaster chicken, it starts with the marinades and coatings, it uses the frier and you have to use the process that we dictate to call it genuine broaster chicken.” (Jay) “We have ‘broaster,' ‘broasted,' ‘genuine broaster chicken' and anything around the name broast, broaster, et cetera has been trademarked by the Broaster Company.” (Jay)“We get more calls from consumers (about trademark violations) than we do from restaurants or distributors. Our consumers are our biggest police for monitoring our brand.” (Jay)“I've heard of people pressure frying Twinkies, hot dogs, et cetera. You can almost do anything. […] Around the holiday season, one of the favorites is turkey.” (Jay)  TRANSCRIPT 00:01.14vigorbrandingFantastic hello hey today I am joined by someone I’ve known for ah personally for a long time. His name is Jay Cira and he is the Ceo of broster company Jay say hello and tell us a little bit about yourself. 00:14.42Jay CipraHey, how are you Mike how you doing um, first of all, thanks for the opportunity one whenever I get a chance to spend some time with you. It’s exciting but also the opportunity to talk about broster is great. So thanks for the opportunity and inviting me on your show here. Um. Groster company. So I’ll tell you a little bit about myself I’ve been with grocester company for 19 years now so long time can never imagine that I was going to be part of an organization this long but it’s it’s been awesome and it’s been awesome run and looking forward to another 20 years or so so it’s ah the broster company. Is actually a very interesting company and something that you know you think of a you know small business within the us. You know you think it’s fairly simple but it’s a little bit more complex than a lot of people think and that’s because we do a lot of different things. Um, broster company started back in 1954 when it was first organized and the way we got. Our started is ah there was a gentleman by the name of Lewis Phelan and Lewis Phelan was basically an inventor turned businessman and he worked for companies inventing products such as Monsanto. Good year. He worked as part of the Panama canal project et cetera and some pretty cool things. Um, but back in the 20 s he found himself running the Taylor company I think everybody here probably has heard of the Taylor company. The softa of ice cream machines that you see at most fast food restaurants et cetera. But. 01:37.99vigorbrandingUm, and hope. 01:41.93Jay CipraHe ran that organization for several years and actually from there also started something I want to say it’s like Zesto zestomatic or something like that which is another custard machine but he started that and it ended up turning into a a franchise drive-in so anyways, with that. In 9052 53 he was in the midwest and anybody who’s in knows in the midwest especially Wisconsin Minnesota Iowa Indiana it is supper club country and wherever you go not too many people know about supper clubs anymore. But there’s still are some around. And I tell you I still frequent with them because ah they got great food and talk about comfort food. They got it and a lot of them. There have ah their fish rise and their their fried chicken and while at 1 of these supper clubs Lewis ah decided to come up with his own method and what he did was. You know what we can make a better fried chicken and he took a pressure cooker and an open fryer and in 1953 he patented the first commercial pressure fryer into the us. So that’s kind of where we got our start way back when um, I’m gonna say shortly thereafter. He. I’ll developed his own marining encoding so he had a specific taste profile at the same time I think people may have heard of ah colonel Sanders. He was doing something similar. But yeah and Lewis developed the marinade and codings known as ah chickite marinade and slow bro. 02:58.80vigorbrandingSo. 03:13.83Jay CipraAh, coding which is still used today to make genuine brocery chicken. So that’s kind of where we got our start and you know we’ve been running our business through a couple different ownerships I’ll just state on that real quick. Ah alco standard company owned us and some other food service equipment companies. 03:16.23vigorbrandingVery cool. Nice. 03:33.65Jay CipraAnd then this ownership group. Ah we’ve had it since 1990 1991 yeah 03:38.40vigorbrandingWow! Very cool. So I mean I’m going to back up a little bit because it’s intriguing to me First of all I mean you know we always talk about restaurants or cpg and the combination thereof So yours is is ah is a piece of equipment and it actually kind of. 03:53.66Jay CipraUm, even. 03:54.53vigorbrandingTranscends and kinds of slides around into it’s not a franchise but it kind of becomes a program and we’ll talk about that in a second I want to go back to supper club. So like what’s the difference between a supper club and a restaurant like tell me more I’ve never been to a supper club I’ve heard about them. You know, um what? what is it is it actually a club I mean as crazy as that sounds. 04:10.70Jay CipraWill know it. It is just it is the old school um restaurant in the Midwest and basically it’s ah if you want to go in if you go in hungry, you’re not going to come out hungry. That’s for sure. It’s just an old school restaurant. 04:12.99vigorbrandingAh. 04:16.94vigorbrandingOkay. 04:23.16vigorbrandingGot you. 04:27.42Jay CipraWhite tablecloth restaurant. So back in the day they were the higher end restaurant which has since been replaced by a lot of the different you know che steak place et etc but people would go out there for big celebrations and when they were going to go out in the town and they wanted to have a good dinner. They went to the Supper Club but the thing that’s interesting about the supper clubs in the Midwest is you would walk out there and or sit down and immediately you would have a relish tray which would have everything you would have crackers you would have cheese and then everything you ordered would come with a soup a salad the meal. 05:03.12vigorbrandingWow. 05:03.88Jay CipraAnd a deserve. So and everything was included and it was basically you pay for that and that’s what you get and you basically would look around and all your neighbors would be there for their big meals of the week as well. 05:07.97vigorbrandingHe. 05:15.72vigorbrandingVery cool Next I’m in the Midwest you know how next time I slide into Boyoid I’ll have to find a a supper club. So that’s that that’s ah. 05:19.50Jay CipraWe got 1 right there called the butterfly club and we like to take people there. It’s awesome. Absolutely. 05:25.20vigorbrandingAh, and I assume they they sell broasted chicken of course of course. Excellent. Okay, so you know ah the the other thing that’s really intriguing to me is and and I kid you not like you know, um um um I was a kid I grew up in Hershey Pennsylvania and somehow I knew the broster name I mean. You know there’s there’s baked chicken. There’s fried chicken. There’s but somehow I knew broasted and I mean how did it permeate like how would I know that like you know were restaurants serving it. How did that all kind of come to be. 05:54.51Jay CipraWell, you know it’s interesting and again it all gets its stem from the midwest or I’ll say the ah ah the what do I want to say up upper central part of the US so if you were to take the dakoas over to Ohio go down probably to Kentucky that is where the broster market is. 06:07.84vigorbrandingUm, got you. 06:11.82Jay CipraAnd what’s interesting is we’ve really found is people have moved moved outside of the midwest. That’s how the name spreads and while that is our strongest market that we have um what we see are people start to move outside of the us and that’s where the brand starts to build and the brand recognition starts to build. Actually what’s interesting is we had a partnership with a larger chain restaurant and they were selling and I’ll just jar it. It was called Bob Evans roasted chicken. We did a branding thing and we were in all their stores and what was interesting is they did their studies. 06:41.65vigorbrandingFrom her. 06:51.28Jay CipraThey found that when they had broasted on the menu compared to just Bob Evans chicken on the menu. There was a lot more market recognition and brand recognition and people were going into the restaurants more where they called it broasted so it’s got a name. It’s good. There’s something about that name broster that. 07:03.91vigorbrandingHere. 07:09.70Jay CipraNot everybody can really put. Ah you know, get a handle of what it means or what it stands for but they know it and that’s what drives people to try it. 07:17.90vigorbrandingNow are there are are restaurants using that name now to to to enhance. Ah I mean we see like ah co promos with like say a Jack Daniels chicken or things like different things on menus or you know ribs or whatever you mean are people using roasted as a as a marker and paying for a trademark there. 07:24.31Jay CipraThat. 07:31.46Jay CipraNo absolutely they are using it as a marker and we we like to call that as grocery chicken is a a champion menu item and what a lot of people will do with that is they’ll take a section of the their menu. And they actually describe the cooking processt etc and what it means and then they’ll have whatever meals that they serve there but they will use broster on their menu once like so I’m from you know I live in Chicago land area. Our our companies inloit. But um, you know a lot of people have Vienna beef for hot dogs on their signs in Chicago. 08:02.67vigorbrandingHere. 08:06.45Jay CipraAnd for the same thing at these restaurants and the way we’ve always sold 2 restaurants is this is your champion menu item and it’s worked for people. 08:15.54vigorbrandingAnd it’s Amazing. So I Want to talk about sort of that that brand that Trademark. Ah, it’s a piece of equipment. It’s a broster so we have broasted chicken I can’t really think of ah and maybe I just I can’t think of another brand tied to a machine that is part of like the trademark. So for instance. Ah, we we have you know kettlec cooked Chips. We don’t It’s not ah Trademark Kettle. It’s just they say they’re kettle cook obviously in in food marketing when you have a descriptor with it. It just makes it better I mean you know you know healay and sea salt or whatever you know like it always sounds like it’s Better. So. 08:43.72Jay CipraUm, right. 08:50.60vigorbrandingUm, is there something else out there that that has like ah is like a broster or that we would know that you know you hear a name tied to it. It just seems so unique to me. 08:56.59Jay CipraWell, it’s a little bit different and I want to take a step back here because it broster isn’t tied to the equipment alone. Okay, and like I said when it was a personally when we were you know incorporated 1954 it wasn’t just the equipment. It was the equipment and the marinities and codexs. 09:03.58vigorbrandingOkay. 09:14.84Jay CipraSo Basically what it is is if you want to call yourselves or say that you’re using Broster chicken or serving broster Chicken. It has to have this it starts with the marinades and the coatings actually uses the fryer and then you have to use the process that we dictate. On that to actually call it genuine Brocester Chicken. So It’s not just the fryer you want to call it brocester chicken you have to use our Marin needs our coatdings our equipment and cook to our process then you’re able to call Gender Brocester chicken. 09:34.46vigorbrandingGotcha. 09:43.76vigorbrandingVery cool nice that makes a lot of sense then I know it’s it’s interesting because ah because that name is so like I don’t know it’s almost like Kleenex and people just know it. It’s the the brand is is sort of like the product. 09:53.16Jay CipraUm, yeah. 09:57.45vigorbrandingUm, there’s trademark issues I mean people tried to use your name and I know that you have to track that down sometimes in fact I remember there was a time I was driving in the back waters of New Jersey headed to the beach and I saw this big sign. It said the guy said you know I said broasted chicken. It looked like he was handmade so I reached out to you. And I know you’d looked into it so talk about that the trademark protection process and all that kind of thing. 10:20.11Jay CipraSo You know it’s It’s interesting and it’s It’s actually ah, there’s quite a bit of work there and protecting the Trademark. So We do have something that’s out there and like you said earlier a lot of people know what it they know the name but they’re not really sure what it is. And one of the things we found is people have tried to say that broaster chicken is tied to the pressure fryer as you mentioned earlier not only the brocester pressure dryer but any pressure fryer that’s out there and actuality like I said it’s tied to the marinates. It’s tied to the coatings is tied to the pressure fryer and our equipment. 10:46.11vigorbrandingAnd. 10:51.32Jay CipraSo people out there and actually some of our competitors will even say well you’re using fresh fryer just go ahead and call it broaster chicken. You can’t do that. We have broster broasted Genuine Broster chicken and anything around the name Bros Broaster etc is been trademarked by the broster company. So we own all those trademarks. 11:08.31vigorbrandingMe. 11:10.72Jay CipraSo as people go in and may oh let’s just say ah we’ll we’ll be. We’ll be nice, accidentally use the name or sometimes accidentally on purpose use that name. Um, we’ll hear about it and the interesting thing is originally when I first got in the business I’m like So what are our distributors tell us about it. 11:21.49vigorbrandingAh, yeah. 11:29.98Jay CipraOur operators tell us. But how do we hear? we actually get more call from Consumers. Um, than we do from the actual restaurants and our distributors because they go in and said hey we went in for a genuine broaster chicken and it wasn’t general Roaster Chicken I Want to let you know because you don’t want them using their name. Ah your name. Because it’s not the same quality Chicken. So Our consumers are our biggest ah police for monitoring our bread. 11:56.29vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. That’s very cool and look. You said it started in the Midwest Wisconsin to to be precise supper clubs all that. But you you have a business that’s actually building outside of that I mean Middle East india can can you talk about that a little bit. 12:07.10Jay CipraUm, yeah, we actually we’ve been international business for global business for as long as barster is is been incorporated so to speak. Um, we have distributors I I shouldn’t say as long but quite a long time. We have distributor in the Middle East um that we’ve been working with for I think the past sixty years and we’ve been working in the Middle East I’m going to say internationally we have a strong market in the international in the Middle East we have a strong market in the Australia market and then we have a very strong market in Canada so those are the 3 marks that are really booming for us right now. 12:40.90vigorbrandingUm. 12:46.51Jay CipraAnd what we’re also seeing is just like the us as they get outside of the central us we’re seeing them as they gets out of those 3 areas they’re starting to grow different markets as people are seeing people want western brands and we give them opportunity to get in like you said before. 12:57.27vigorbrandingHere. 13:03.60Jay CipraAh, with a restaurant brand or something that looks and feels like a franchise but it’s not a franchise and we’re able to get into different food service Menues internationally and as people want this western brand they see genuine broaster chicken and they want it and they want to grab onto it and it’s been working very very well for us. 13:07.16vigorbrandingWho. 13:21.15vigorbrandingVery cool. Well I mean let’s but let’s one with that. So ah, you know we we know about restaurant franchises and franchisees franchisors and you know you have Kentucky fried chicken. You have all these but broster kind of goes about it in a different way. So if I have. A bunch of convenience stores I could I could talk to you about a program isn’t that correct. 13:37.98Jay CipraYes, absolutely so. We sell what we call a licensed trademark program and basically what that means is you can go in if you want to use like I stated early the pressure prior our marinades and codings and cook to our process. We will signed a licensed trademark agreement with you. And you’re able to use that and advertise that um at your facility now what we don’t do anymore is allow people to use broster in their name but we do allow them to use on their menu and say serving genuine broaster chickent etc. But it couldn’t be Michael’s broster chicken ah, ah, for example, but um. 14:06.36vigorbrandingYou. Right? right. 14:15.90Jay CipraYeah, so we sell it as a trademark program. We renew that every year with them and through our distributors we make sure they’re doing it right? And if they’re following the program and they’re serving quality chicken then we continue on with that agreement as long as they would like. 14:30.52vigorbrandingYeah, and you don’t want it in the name because if Mike doesn’t do a good job with the product. All of a sudden it really can affect your brand. Yeah. 14:37.40Jay CipraExactly right? pull in a product and you know we’ve had the situation where people weren’t serving to our quality or you know and and the other side where they weren’t properly using Genuine Brocester chicken where we have talked to them and they’ve pulled it off their website pulled it off their menu etc because. Again, we want our brand represented correctly. 14:55.10vigorbrandingUm, yeah, and and it’s amazing because it obviously is a fantastic product so much so that there’s ah, a really large convenience store that really hangs its hat on its chicken I mean. I’m seeing all kinds of advertising about the quality of their chicken and it’s your product Basically right I mean. 15:09.96Jay CipraYeah, so I wouldn’t say it’s our product but it’s definitely using our our equipment our cooking methodology so to speak. But you know royal farms chicken in the I want to say the Norton I shouldn’t say royal farms chicken but that’s actually how they’re becoming more and more known but royal farms convenience stores. Um, they used to just be in the northeast and basically now they’re going up and down the the eastern coast there but they they’re known for their chicken program and we started working with them I’m just going to say five ten years ago somewhere in there and basically have ah. 15:31.52vigorbrandingE. 15:47.62Jay CipraStarted using our pressure fires and they’re selling more chicken and doing a great job and the partnership that we’ve worked with them and developed with them has been a great partnership because they do serve quality product and as that’s associated with our equipment and what it’s Producing. You know that’s something that we’re we’re proud to stand behind and prior to be partners with people like that now one of the things is we go down this path a little bit. You know as I said before we make our our marinise and coatings we have equipment. Um, we have different food products et cetera. If an opportunity comes up and somebody is serving high quality chicken but they want to use their own recipe so to speak and use their own brand. We do have a strong piece of equipment. We feel. It’s the highest quality pressure out in the marketplace right now. 16:34.16vigorbrandingM. 16:38.83Jay CipraUm, we will partner with those companies while they can’t call it roaster chicken. They can still use our equipment and prepare. For example, Royal Farms chicken. 16:46.44vigorbrandingYeah I mean it’s kind of ah it’s kind of an amazing thing because again, what a great Brand Royal Farms I mean quality product quality stores. Great great ah message and they’re really using your product. Ah, they’re known for your product which is really kind of cool I Just wish you guys could get more halo from the from the. 17:01.42Jay CipraUm, yeah. 17:04.73vigorbrandingThe marketing there because ah you know again, they’re they’re drawing people in with their with their chicken. Um is there is there other products that that I mean I I know that the the machine is not quote unquote pro. It’s ah it. Ah, it’s a pressure friar and it’s a quality product. Is there anything else that you’ve ever heard of people putting in that I’ve I’ve read online of Apple pies. 17:24.22Jay CipraApple pies um breakfast burritos. One of my favorite products. We don’t have it anymore but we used to have ah a frozen food product. What? Ah, there were many cheesecakes all those are outstanding. But if you just talked. You know those are all the healthy items I’ve heard of people ah pressure frying twinkies hot dogs et cetera so you can almost do anything but some of the ones that kind of stand on in my mind are pork chops. Outstanding fish Friday fish fries you’re using pressure fryer all the time ribs ribs. Some ribs are done in the pressure fryer. And being here on a holiday season. 1 of the favorites is ah is turkey. Ah, ah you can’t go wrong with roasted turkey. Um, there is ah there’s definitely a a big call out for you know, looking to get the larger pressure priors that we have and cooking. 18:01.94vigorbranding8 18:16.70Jay CipraYou know up to eighteen twenty pond turkey in there and it turns out phenomenal. 18:20.94vigorbrandingThat’s awesome now. Only in the midwest would you consider ah broster chicken cheesecake and Apple Pie Health food but that’s okay I I respect that I respect I respect that. 18:30.70Jay CipraUm, that’s right look look at me. Ah. 18:34.41vigorbrandingAh, so ribs I know you so you mentioned ribs I know you guys have a smoke Aama Kima Talka it’s another another device another piece of equipment right. 18:43.12Jay CipraYeah, we actually purchased this company back probably about ten years ago and it was started bought the same time broser company was down local homeline. It was a company called smoke aroma and they have ah. Really 2 products and the main product that we are manufacturing and selling right now is called the smoke aroma barbecue boss and it is a pressure smoker and what I liked about this opportunity was it has pretty much the the same functionality as what a pressure firering does. But it’s in ah it but it smokes it smokes products so you could smoke ribs in 45 minutes you can smoke a brisket in 2 hours which normally takes 12 hours and basically it does exactly what the broster pressure friar does is you are but you are using pressure and you’re using the heated had to smoke a product. 19:16.62vigorbrandingYou know. 19:35.76Jay CipraWhich is going to produce a moisture product and cook it in much less time than you would have to be it in an open fire and with the pressure with the chicken or a you know a smoker on the rib side. 19:45.73vigorbrandingNow Will you create another again I Love the whole idea the brosure. It’s It’s like kind of like can create a franchise without franchise fees right? You give people a reason to come to your store or their their restaurant. Whatever and the product’s great. Are you going to do the same thing with smoke aroma is that gonna. 19:53.97Jay CipraMany. 20:04.88vigorbrandingSort of stand on its own or you just slide and slide it in or how’s that going to work. 20:08.46Jay CipraWe we you know that was originally started as an equipment home ah company only and didn’t have a program we have since developed the program for them and that’s called Rock County Smokeouts and we are working with conveence stories I believe we have a couple down in Texas right now. 20:15.35vigorbrandingGreat. 20:25.42Jay CipraThat are using the Rock County Smokehouse name and all the products that we have and we ah had the the rubs and the the different marinates and different things that you can use for the smoke product as well. Um, and use that as a license ratemark program as well. 20:40.47vigorbrandingVery Cool. So what? What do you see as I mean again, we talked about a large convenience store who’s really kind of taken nop pun intended you guys under their wing because you’re you’re promoting their ah I mean they’re promoting their brand through your quality product. Um, what’s what’s what do you see as the future like where where where do you go from here. What’s what’s the the growth opportunity. 20:59.11Jay CipraWell I think the growth opportunity for brosters really focus on Lf Facets of our business Again. We got our start as a program and I still think there’s a there’s a strong opportunity out there for food programs not only in restaurants. So when I say program in a restaurant. Yes, it is a menu item. But it’s kind of you have everything that you need with the broaster name and the broster products to just drop that into your restaurant and you’re going to have a top quality restaurant or top Quality. Ah menu item on your on your menu but food service has expanded so far. Um, that you have convenience stores you have college and universities you have grocery stores, Cetera etc that are looking to put in programs and they’re looking to put in branded programs because it’s something about a a brand that Grabs people’s name. So What were. 21:35.40vigorbrandingMe. 21:51.50Jay CipraYou know one of the main areas of focus is further developing out our programs to truly fit into sea stores grocery stores um college and universities even prisons et cetera different things that we can do to get out there and get out in the food service marketplace and give them an option. The second thing is as we were mentioned before with royal farms we have top quality equipment and our proster proster pressure prior I put against anybody’s out there and so what we’re doing is looking out to and we’re actually I shouldn’t even say looking out people are looking to us. 22:17.91vigorbrandingSee me. 22:28.36Jay CipraFor other options for pressure friers and as they look to us. They see what we do on the program side. They know what our quality of the food that it produces they start looking into it so we are innovating not only from a how to go to market perspective to some of these opportunities but also innovating from our equipment side. And for right now. For example, we we’ve just introduced and we’re putting putting out a new um piece of equipment called the eseries e standing for for efficiency e series twenty four and what that is is. That’s the 8 head pressure frier. Um, but it also has an automatic lift as well as automatic oil management system. So we basically you know in today’s market it’s harder and harder to get labor. So we’re innovating by side and how to reduce some of the labor. So what we’ve done is taken out I mean we used to be able to instill to this day we have somewhere. You drop the chicken in a basket and you have to pick pick the basket out of the oil and then dump the chicken on the side. Well in all cases with the the operational conditions that we have from a people perspective. It’s getting harder and harder to retain people. We’re giving an option where basically you load it on a tray and you push a button. And it goes down into the oil when it’s all done. You push a button that comes out of the oil and all you have to do is pick up those trays and chicken and it’s much easier and faster method for the for the operator. So innovation. Um, and then expanding our our footprint into other food service markets. 24:00.94vigorbrandingThat’s super smart I mean I know like just from personal Experience. We’ve been hired by some of the the world’s largest I’ll say food service ah companies and to your point they want a branded program so they can’t just have a coffee shop on campus they want to have like ah. You know, ah you know petes you know,? whatever Columbian coffee or whatever they they want to brand it to it and experience and what I always found amazing about your product Brand is. It’s already Turnkey I Mean there’s a piece of equipment you buy it. You then? commit quality Product. You have the the seasonings you have the program and you have a name and it’s like like you said franchise without franchise fees. It’s like it’s already known and it’s already going to be a quality product and there’s something that that seems so obvious to me about that that that I really feel has a. 24:37.50Jay CipraYeah. 24:50.63vigorbrandingAh, tremendous opportunity. So it’s ah it’s it’s very exciting so all opportunities I mean like you know we to hear about people. You know you said about some people throw the the turkey and into the pressure friar. Um, do you ever consider you know Thanksgiving was just here people were still like burning their houses down and experimenting with ah. Turkeys and and and hot oil I mean do you ever have ah any thoughts on joining for the home is there ever any kind of consideration making sort of a product that that people might want to bring to their house. 25:19.11Jay CipraI will say we’ve been asked to come up with something but when you’re speaking of 360 degree oil under about £12 of pressure. Yeah, that’s ah, it’s a little bit scary I will be honest I got to share a little secret. Not everybody knows. 25:33.14vigorbrandingAnd. 25:33.58Jay CipraUm, at my house I do have a broaster pressure fryer in our garage I do wheel it outside but it cuts it cooks a mean turkey on the holidays. But yeah, right now we don’t have ah anything for the home use at this point um and a lot of that’s just from the liability perspective is, but. 25:40.76vigorbrandingHow back. 25:48.30vigorbrandingSure. 25:52.80Jay CipraIt sure wouldnt be great I can tell you when I do roll that out of the garage people drive by are placing the orders and I become the ah ah the the chef of the of of the town to produces whatever they want I give me so it’s it’s a lot of fun. 26:00.38vigorbrandingUm. 26:07.65vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic. Well in a way I’m kind of glad you’re not going to make it because my wife personally always ah, whatever, kind of new gadget thing. That’s out there. She buys So I’m gonna have to put an additional my kitchen for all the stuff that we bought and don’t use because we have all these. Sort of things that are supposed to quote unquoteealype your Counter. We don’t enough counter space for all the things that are you know, making stuff. So ah, that’s but that’s probably good news. Well I think that’s the you know it. But it is very cool I guess that that led me to another thought though is ah you know because again I feel like it’s a No- brain or this program. 26:24.42Jay CipraYeah, oh I get it. 26:39.53vigorbrandingIs it is the whole idea of this hot oil pressure cooker is that is that a bit of a hurdle you have to overcome you know, let’s say I have I don’t know maybe I have ah 20 convenience stores. You know I’m not part of the the big chain the national chains I want to put a program in I mean is that ah is that a hurdle for some folks. Do they get nervous about that. 26:55.81Jay CipraYou mean as far as the oil and just the. 26:59.31vigorbrandingYeah, just because it is what it is I mean is it ah is a thing you have to like explain to people because I’m sure I know I’ve seen your products. They’re very safe and and they’re very well manufactured. 27:03.85Jay CipraYeah, yeah I mean to say you know for some of the the smaller operators that are new to food service on the convenience store side. It may be something and maybe a hurdle that they have to get over a bit but once they see us operate once they get their hands on it. 27:12.73vigorbrandingOkay. 27:19.63vigorbrandingUm, evening. Yeah. 27:22.88Jay CipraWe do demonstrations we do tests and evaluations we do different things like that once they get their hands on. It’s extremely safe look at the end of the day if I can operate one anybody can operate one. But no, it’s something you know if they’re not in food service. It could be a hurdle but you know we work with them. We have a. Ah, great team that can really walk them through the process and we have a great training program not only on their site but also in bulllight Wisconsin where we invite in operators. We invite invite in new distributors and we put them through a extensive training class so they can really learn exactly. 27:47.11vigorbrandingHe. 27:58.30Jay CipraNot only how to produce the best product that possible but also how to operate as safe as possible and you know at the end of the day. there’s there’s there’s 1 thing that we’re brought of we’ve never had a situation where anything’s been at the fall of broster and that’s because we build them safe. 28:02.89vigorbrandingVehicle. 28:16.97Jay CipraAnd we build the top quality piece of equipment. 28:17.50vigorbrandingVery cool I mean is there anything else, you’d like to talk like what? what’s your vision for say the next ten years or I mean what are you thinking where what would you like to see happen I mean what where you know where’s your head at what? what are you looking for coming into the new year now what what are you hoping for here. 28:32.25Jay CipraAh, you know I’d like to see proaster everywhere I think you know the the opportunity’s truly out there and we’re talking a little bit about it before is you know how do we take the innovation and and really taking our innovation I should say how but taking our innovation out um in the different areas and really focusing. If. There is a true equipment opportunity. Let’s let’s show them what we’ve developed. We’re proud of what we’ve done since 53 or 54 I should say it’s developed in 53 but like next year seventy years seventy years of groaster is pretty exciting. So as we look into 2024. There’s not a whole lot of ah companies that have been around that long. 28:52.58vigorbrandingAny. 29:02.83vigorbrandingIt is. 29:10.11Jay CipraWe want to get broaster everywhere. We want to continue to expand our footprint into different areas of food service and we want to take the innovation we have from the food, the equipment side and get it in as many kitchens as possible and really just show off roaster. You know one story I Want to share two stories I Want to share is you know. 29:22.40vigorbrandingYeah. 29:28.19Jay Cipra1 of the cool things about roaster you mentioned earlier not a lot of people know exactly what it is that they heard about it. We’ve also had people who basically as people move especially now more and more are starting to move to the Southern States because they want to get on the cold or let’s just say the snowbirds that are going down the Florida. You know they’ll map out their trip and ask where the roaster operators are and that’s where they can go on our operator locator and find that but another one is we just had somebody who was doing a special on a pvf station in which they were going through supper clubs of the Midwest and the person said she had to do Roaster. We said how did you hear about roaster. She goes I grew up on roaster because as a matter of fact, my husband didn’t know what roaster chicken was but that’s what they served at their wedding so we want to continue to build those stories and we want to continue to build the traditions with families. So ah, you know, centered around the broster products. 30:20.30vigorbrandingVery cool all right? So I’ve got 2 questions left very simple I’m always fascinated by ah how often people consume their products so number one how often do you eat broasted chicken or turkey I guess in your case and then the other question is if you had 1 final meal. 30:22.98Jay CipraOkay. 30:34.55vigorbrandingWhat would you eat and where and why and you can’t say Bros did both. 30:37.54Jay CipraWell I’m gonna so I’ll obviously I’ll start with no I won’t say both I’d like to but I won’t but how often do I eat brocester chicken we have a test kitchen. We’re constantly doing different things to either test our equipment or test product. So I’m going to say it’s at least weekly if not more. 30:56.82vigorbrandingThat’s great. 30:56.95Jay CipraI will also say because I’m in the chicken business. Um I do like to taste other people’s chicken just to see what it’s like and so wherever I have the opportunity to stop it and try somebody else’s chicken I definitely will my wife looked at me once and was surprised because we’re at a steak restaurant. And I ordered fried chicken I said he got it test out the competition. So I’ll have it often. But as a matter of fact I just had a piece of chicken broster chicken as I was leaving office yesterday. So I have it quite frequently. Um, as far as my last meal that’s a tough one and I just say it’s a toss up so I’m gonna throw it too. Um, I used to spend a lot of time. My daughter went to northeastern university in Boston and she played ice hockey for their team and while out there I fell in love with 2 restaurants. So I just say there’s 2 places that I would go ones probably would be my you know if it would be my last meal. It would be aben Lewis. 31:35.44vigorbrandingAre. 31:51.83Jay CipraAben louis steak place and I would start with their onion soup. Get a good New York strip and some cream corn to to acompy that. But so there’s also some great restaurants in the north end. But I get just gonna say you know Aben Louis by far is my favorite. 31:52.14vigorbrandingUm, any. 32:07.92vigorbrandingAwesome! Very cool Jay. Thank you so much. The broster story is an awesome one I mean the the challenge is not challenged, but the the goal is just to get the product in people’s mouths because they do. Obviously that’s why people want to copy you. That’s why people talk about you and that’s why people are building their their convenience to our brand around you so that’s congratulations on all the success and 70 years is quite remarkable. So thank you for your time appreciate it. Awesome talk soon. 32:32.92Jay CipraThank you very much like this is great. Thanks again.

TEAM Schostak Family Restaurants is based in Livonia, Michigan and has a portfolio of 150 casual dining, family dining, fast casual, and quick service restaurants throughout Michigan, TEAM Schostak Family Restaurants (TSFR) include Applebee's, Olga's Kitchen, Olga's Fresh Grille, MOD Pizza and Wendy's.Mark is the third generation of a four-generation family business. The company places a lot of emphasis on its road map, which includes its core purpose, its vision (to lead the way), its mission statement and its core values. TEAM Schostak Family Restaurants core purpose is to create opportunities that make lives better – to life. They create opportunities to make lives better with their employees, their guests and within the communities the company's restaurants serve. The culture created by TEAM Schostak Family Restaurants took many years to create, but they bring it to life by modeling it and living it every day. The COVID pandemic was unprecedented territory for TEAM Schostak Family Restaurants and most restaurants. The first priority for TEAM Schostak Family Restaurants was keeping people employed.   QUOTES “Our core purpose is to create opportunities that make lives better. You have to give people a sense of purpose and they have to recognize that what they're doing is really important.” (Mark) “You can do a great job with your people, a great job with your guests, a great job in the community and you can do everything with integrity but you have to achieve results.” (Mark)“The only way a culture comes to life in a restaurant is you have to model those behaviors. You have to live it. You have to talk about it all the time.” (Mark) “If you're constantly going to the outside (to recruit restaurant managers), you're losing. The only way you're going to build a culture is you have to internally develop (managers).” (Mark) “People don't quit companies, they quit managers.” (Michael) “We need to be out there. If you're in the restaurant business, you need to be eating at your competitors' restaurants. You gotta be out in the field.” (Mark)   TRANSCRIPT 00:00.97vigorbrandingGreat hello everyone I’m excited today dear friend of mine mark showstack is joining us and if you live in the lower peninsula of Michigan ah, you inevitably have eaten at 1 of Mark’s team show stack restaurants. Mark welcome to the show. You want to tell us a little bit about you and your family. 00:17.83Mark SchostakYeah, sure I’m part of a family business It’s a fourth generation family business I’m third generation and in the ah third generation my brothers and I got involved in the restaurant business and. Family’s legacy business is commercial real estate and we celebrated our hundred year anniversary in 2020 so we’re very proud of that. 00:38.72vigorbrandingAmazing. 00:46.00vigorbrandingIt’s fantastic I mean I know you guys were huge in real estate. It’s just only natural to put restaurants in it. So now you didn’t just put a restaurant in or a couple restaurants in I mean you put it in Applebee’s you have Wendy’s you have August kitchens mod pizza and you know who knows what else you guys are cooking up. You want to talk a little bit about those I mean I think you have ah. Is it a hundred and fifty restaurants 01:03.75Mark SchostakYeah, 150 restaurants who are operating 4 brands today oldest kitchen which is a our proprietary brand. It’s basically a Michigan base company a local iconic brand. We also have applebe’s in the state of Michigan and we have 63 Applebee’s we have 55 Wendy’s and we have 12 my pizzas. 01:29.40vigorbrandingIt’s phenomenal now. So I should do like I know for anybody from Michigan it’s where you live on the hand. So I’d like you to identify every location on the hand of all your restaurants. Ah. 01:37.80Mark SchostakYeah, right be a beat. Be a lot of dots. Um. 01:41.17vigorbrandingAh, yeah, it’s an awful lot of dots. it’s it’s insane it’s just amazing. You know and like you guys I know you guys are huge on core values and I know you and I get to talk about how you manage and I’ve always been impressed with your style I mean you have a ah very familiar. Ah like. Caring family style. Do you want to talk about your like your core values and maybe even your thoughts on leadership and and and management I mean you you know I got to imagine sort of like herding cats 150 restaurants. It’s I mean that’s ah, insane to me. 02:15.65Mark SchostakYeah, so when you scale business and you grow and you’re multi-brands. Um the concept of having what we call a roadmap and we call it. Our tsfr roadmap is really important and gives everybody. Um. Guardrails if you will you know of what we’re doing and how we’re doing it and our our road map is got 5 elements to it. The first element is our core purpose on our core purpose is to create opportunities that make lives better and that is. You know something we talk about all the time and it kind of ties into the whole culture is you got to give people a sense of purpose and um, you got to give them. You know they have to recognize what they’re doing is really really important and so there’s 3 ways that we can. Live our core purpose ah creating opportunities to make lives better with our people that’s first and foremost the second area that we can create opportunities make lives better is just with our guests taking care of our guests making sure they have a great meal a great day sometimes somebody had talked to and then the third way. Is we could create opportunities within our community to make lives better and so our core purpose kind of stands at top of our of our roadmap and then from there we have our vision and our vision is to lead the way. That’s really what we strive for. 03:46.79Mark SchostakAnd we talk about that all the time we chose those words very carefully over the years um and we can easily say to anybody in our organization. Um, you’re leading the way and this is what we’re excited about um and then we have our mission statement which is really how we do it and there’s 3 components to our mission statement. Ah, talented engaged team which is really important. Um that probably delights our guest and increases profits for the benefit of all and it starts with the talented engaged team and if you are got a talented engaged team. You’re going to delight our guest. And you’re going to increase profits for the benefit of all and the benefit of all is really important. You got to make sure if the company’s doing well that everybody’s sharing in that at upside if you will sharing in those profits and then we have 5 core values that we talk about all the time with descriptive phrases are. 04:35.39vigorbrandingIt. 04:45.64Mark SchostakPeople core value. Our guest core value. Our community core value got to do everything with integrity our integrity core value and then lastly is achieve results and I say this often to people you know you could do a great job with your people A great job with your guest. Great job in the community. And you could do everything with integrity but you got to achieve results and the way you achieve results in this business is through utilization of systems and being very disciplined and holding yourself accountable. Um, and then after that we each brand has a its own. So. 05:07.14vigorbrandingUm. 05:19.87Mark SchostakStrategic priorities each year and those those change depending on the needs of the business and then each brand has their metric scorecard. That’s broken off into the 3 categories of people guessed and profits. 05:34.40vigorbrandingThat’s fantastic I mean you know it’s It’s interesting. Yeah, knowing you the integrity ah core value does not surprise me ah you every time I’ve talked to you. It’s always been been from that Perspective. You’ve always had integrity and everything and. Um, always um, when makes sure I say this the right way mad by you know we think about like these fast foodod restaurants and you know we we read about like the and nra. We’ll say like there’s a 70% turnover Employees. So It just seems like almost impossible for for people to even know what’s on their menu if they’re turning over so much. Then you talk about it from this perspective and it it makes sense why you’re so successful I mean it really shows that I guess bringing this through this culture through these core values through everything ah is going to make a difference Now. How do you get that to to permeate I mean 150 restaurants I don’t know how many employees per restaurant but there’s an awful lot of people involved here. How does that. Is it The managers is it. Do you do offsite? How do you?? How do you get this information to us to stick quite candidly. 06:29.68Mark SchostakWell first of all I want to let everybody know that the culture that we created took years to develop and there was a few stops and starts and changes that we had to make and it’s a lot of hard work. It’s a lot of hard work and I tell people if you are. You really want to establish a culture. Okay, you really got to make sure that every touch point in your organization talks about what we call the roadmap every every human touch point every meeting ends starts begins with elements of our roadmap. All the vernacular if you will okay of the organization is all the same. You know everybody understands it we reward against it. We do performance appraisals against it. We hire against it. We fire against it so you know over the when I started you know working on culture. You know you thought that I could sit down and you know come up with set of core values a mission some business priorities and you know hang it up in the office right of the manager’s office and then you know quickly that just became wallpaper. Um. 07:34.87vigorbrandingIs. E. 07:42.16Mark SchostakThe only way a culture comes to life in a restaurant is you got to model those behaviors you got to live it. You got to talk about it all the time I can walk into my restaurants and um I see somebody on drive through this doing a great job in speed of service and I could say to them. You know Michael you led the way today in speed of service. You ran 154 hundred and fifty four seconds um so it’s it’s really about bringing it to life each and every day I don’t know if that answers your question but I can’t stress that enough. 08:06.91vigorbrandingNo it it does. Yeah I mean I think you know like we as a company I mean again I go back. You have 150 restaurants. We have about 100 employees and even that to me is like herding cats. So I can’t imagine what you’re going through. But. We’ve always the 1 thing and and I think it’s been a key to our success. We’ve always stayed true to our core values. We established them probably I think it was like 1995 and they’ve never deviated and ours are simple because I’m not bright enough to remember more than 3 things so ours are respect innovation and passion and ah. Our goal is to to respect the work to respect each other to respect our clients. Ah, and then you know the innovation part is just that we should be thinking of new ways and and always coming up with new ideas to push things and a passion I mean if you don’t love what you do, you don’t belong in this business I think what happens is. Ah, there’s core values like they they become. Ah, ah, part of the recipe of the brand I think they to your point that you got to live it and it becomes who you are and in in an interesting way. It’s ah and I’ve always known this. That’s one of the reasons I was so excited to talk to you I feel like what you’ve done with I’ll say team show stack is you created this brand. That is really your guys your team your playbook and then you can apply I’ll say national brands to it. You know whether it’s ah whether it’s a mod pizza or an Applebee’s or whatever I mean it feels like you can do that. How does that? Um, how do those brands because I’m intrigued obviously by these great national brands that you ah. 09:34.89vigorbrandingThat you manage how how do how do their brands their cultures I guess or their ah personalities I’ll I’ll say because they’re obviously very different types of restaurants. How does that? just ah, how does how does that work with your your team does it just all come together into the show stack name and we do it our way and we put a different logo up there. Ah, can you talk a little bit about that. 09:54.86Mark SchostakYeah, it’s a good question because sometimes the values um of the brand national brand that we’re associated with is could be different than our values and the question is you know who are these? um, the team members of Applebee’s the managers. Are they following dime brands. 10:04.10vigorbrandingAh. 10:11.53Mark SchostakYou know, um core values right? or they following. Um, um, team show stack core values hey on one second and the why phone is thought I put on you got to disturb you try to get hang out went through. Okay. 10:26.96vigorbrandingPerfect, No it was. 10:30.45Mark SchostakI’m sorry about that. Um, so yeah, so what we tell people is that you know we’re party national brands right? and we expect. Um we expect you to follow the brand values of it’s called dying brands which owns Applebee’s and ihop or Applebee’s um and respect those but the your values are team shows tech family values and those what those would govern those you know and by the way something you lot lot of the stuff is very similar. You know so there’s not a lot of conflict. But occasionally there is. 10:55.86vigorbrandingUm. 11:03.37vigorbrandingI Got you very cool How about like when it comes to attracting and retaining talent I mean even with the core values even with the roadmap and all the cool things you do I mean what are some of the things you’re doing that you’re willing to share is there any secrets like attracting and retaining because I got to I just have to think. Again with that number of 70% National average. It’s just ah boy it feels like all you’re doing is educating you know turnover I mean so how does that I mean talk about that a little bit. 11:31.49Mark SchostakYeah, you know so I would tell you that um in our in our core value people. Okay, we have 4 descriptive phrases in our core value of our people the first the first descriptive phrase is train and develop people come in. They got to train and develop them. Training it more the technical and develop is. 

The International Food & Beverage Technology Association (IFBTA) is a nonprofit trade association that promotes the use of technology within the global food and beverage industries with a specific focus on education, networking, certification, standards, research, and events, while aligning with other industry associations and groups in support of their technology related initiatives.Rob started his career as a restaurant manager for Bob's Big Boy and Marriott Hotels. In those roles, he was able to marry his love of operations and restaurants with technology.  Rob is seeing an increase in the use of robotics in back-of-house operations in restaurants, but fewer uses for food delivery to tables. At CES, Rob sees a sharp increase in electric vehicles as a trend and robotics for use in food preparation and fewer uses of VR.   QUOTES “The word ‘technology' is changing. It's evolving as a definition in hospitality, food service and retail and that's a very exciting thing to see.” (Rob) “Certain terms and technology become very popular over time. The way to know what's popular is to go to a trade show and look above the aisles at the signs. I look at what words are being used. Many years ago it was one-to-one marketing or big data.” (Rob) “I think the concept of drones may be more of a fad than a trend (in food service). I'm not so hot on drones for delivery, I am very hot on autonomous vehicles and even hotter now that I'm at CES. There is a whole room at CES with electric vehicles and half of those vehicles – probably more than half – are using autonomous driving.” (Rob)“I believe in robotics. I think we're going to see it more in the back of the house for food preparation. That's very clear here at CES with robotic baristas. There's going to be at the NRF Show next week a robotic pizza maker that's being used by Walmart. What we don't see is a ton of robots being used for delivery of food (in restaurants) to tableside.” (Rob)“I saw a company in Taiwan and they were doing simultaneous translation with earbuds. I've seen this before, but it always needed a phone. This one did not need that. So we're really getting to the point of Star Trek where you put the earbuds in and you're instantly having conversations with somebody and it's instantly being translated.” (Rob) “One of the two things I've noticed at CES between last year and this year is a whole pavilion on vehicles. Electric scooters, cars and farming equipment. The other thing I noticed is that the big companies that usually do CES have two booths. I see LG electronics, who I normally see in the main building doing video displays and phones, now has a separate booth in the automotive section where they're showing their cars.” (Rob)  “I believe you can't talk about technology. The best way is to show people technology and show them how it's being used.” (Rob)  TRANSCRIPT 00:01.96vigorbrandingHello everyone today's guest is ah a self-described techovvader and someone I've known for a long long time. A good friend. He's Rob Grimes and he's the founder and Ceo of the international food and beverage technology Association Rob also has other businesses. He's tied to he'll talk a little bit about that. And he's obviously not in his house unless he has a casino and slot machines in his house. He's in vegas so obviously ah, you're at the Ceo show welcome to the show Rob ah, let's hear a little bit about you. 00:31.18Robert GrimesThank you? Well listen? Yeah I'm in vegas and unfortunately since we're doing this on a webcam I can't tell you that what goes on in vegas stays in Vegas but I can tell you that I got elevators behind me I got a Starbucks over that way I got slot machines over that way and. 00:43.23vigorbrandingX. 00:50.50Robert GrimesFront desk over here and when I come out to vegas I still get up my normal time which is about four thirty in the morning East Coast so I was up early and so you just never know what you see coming in and out so I cannot be responsible for anybody getting out of that elevator or going in the elevator. But. 01:04.72vigorbrandingYeah, very cool. Well you know, depending on who comes out of the elevator with whom this might be the most watched podcast of all time. So I'm pretty excited about it. 01:07.52Robert GrimesAnyway, so that's why I am but I am here for CES. 01:15.90Robert GrimesSome while. 01:18.62vigorbrandingSo anyway I've heard I mean you you call yourself? ah a techno vader you want to talk a little bit about that. 01:25.67Robert GrimesSo I don't call myself that that's sort of a name that was given to me. Um, now I've been called a lot of things but I thought that was sort of interesting and I think it was a combination of putting technology and innovation which is what I spend most of my time looking At. Ah, but at the same time sort of the entrepreneurial side of helping Tech. You know to come Along. So I Just it sort of stuck so I used it and um, but anyway so it's really the combination I'm not really a highly technical person I can't program I can't do things like that. But. What I do do is I spend my time in technology trying to figure out and forecast where I think it's going to go and then certainly try to predict New Trends and sometimes see new companies which is actually why I'm out here at cs. 02:12.66vigorbrandingVery Cool. So I mean a little refresher for those who aren't familiar with the international food and beverage technology association and what you and your team do the Ifbta promotes the use of technology within the food and beverage industry considering the constant advances in technology I Mean. You and I do Trends presentations. We speak on Trends and what's going on in food and beverage and technology and it's just technology I mean just that's always a trend. It's always the topic I mean you know it's a massive undertaking.. How do you begin to focus on that objective. 02:46.10Robert GrimesWell, ah, gosh you know that's such a big that's such a big subject and it's a very large question so I have blinders on so my blinders focus on technology as it relates to the hospitality food service and retail industry so you can't look at it all. But. You know I'm very focused on how technology putting aside my own personal interest and my own personal things that I like to use and do besides that. Um you know I'm very focused on how technology might work within our industries. However. What I've learned recently and I got a feeling that maybe 2024 is the year that yours and my worlds actually collide or combined and I'll tell you why because the word technology is changing and so as I go see technology even here at Cs like today. There's a food tech zone. That's going to be about technology of food. How do you cook it what type of foods you have that is technology yet most people thought technology in my world was point-of-ale and Kios and drivethroughs and but it isn't and your world working in the cpg world working with a lot of food products. That is technology as well and how it's going to be prepared and where it's going to be served and so I think the interesting thing about is that technology is evolving as a definition in hospitality food service and retail and that's sort of a very exciting thing to see. 04:09.57vigorbrandingYeah I think there's no question I mean it's It's a part of everything we do and you know whether it's the the marketing and restaurant world or if it's in the Cpg world. It's just it's it's ah it's just a paramount to be on top of the changing. 04:19.35Robert GrimesBut I've enjoyed the trends that you put out every year and you put out that report and you're really talking about food trends that's something I have to study more now because as those trends are there how that food is delivered and where it's delivered and whether it's a fresh food bending machine which nobody ever thought that they could do that or something. You know all of a sudden what you're putting out in the trends in food I need to actually follow in the trends in technology and put those things together. 04:45.63vigorbrandingYeah, absolutely absolutely so like I've heard you say you're a restaurant manager first I think it's awesome because you worked at Bob's big boy. That's where it's all started and so you're seeing needs you you know? Obviously it was a long time ago and technology has just evolved so. Ah, how does that all tie into tech. How did you end up in tech from that start. 05:03.67Robert Grimesum um I always believe that you also puts people in the right place at the right time nobody expects to do what they do and when I talk to students today in hospitality schools and I tell them to do like a focus chart I tell them your focus chart can't be any more than a year or two out. Because your life could change you know based upon things happen. So I did start as a restaurant manager um actually Roy Rogers then Bob's big boy both owned by Marriott at the time and then Marriott hotels and then I got asked to do a systems project. And it was supposed to be like six months go to Marriott Headquarters I was working in in a Marriott hotel as a assistant restaurant manager in Washington and it was a six month deal come to come to corporate help us on a systems project. We need somebody who understands operations and then when you're done. We send you back and you get promoted to restaurant magic well without. Totally getting into my age or where I might have been at the time the world of the pc and I collided at Marriott headquarters and it came out and so you didn't have to be a programmer anymore to do technology and so I took over point of sale for Marriott globally some Pms and that's actually how I got started but. I was like the first one of corporate headquarters to have a mobile phone. It was in a bag it was a bag phone pretty funny ah but then I had to convince my boss to pay for it because you had to pay $3 a minute for airtime I told him I was going to use it for support. But anyway so I was able to marry 2 things together. 06:19.36vigorbrandingE. 06:34.16Robert GrimesMy love for operations and restaurants which I still am involved in and then the tech side of it. 06:40.49vigorbrandingVery cool, very cool and it's It's always neat how that all kind of comes together and you know I just got I was talking my daughter this morning I said hey look if you love what you do, You don't work a day in your life. So if you find things you're really passionate about you can bring them together and really kind of grow in that it's just ah, it's wonderful and we're We're very lucky for that. 06:52.97Robert GrimesPeople should always do things that they're passionate about. 06:57.55vigorbrandingYeah, no question and so you you said it you and I both end up speaking a lot of the same things on technology you technology mostly and me food and beverage Cpg and restaurant. But then as you said they come together. So The last couple of Trends Presentations I'm sure that you've talked about that I've talked about we talk about things like. Drone delivery and robots and restaurants and you know is there a day that pizza and and and Chinese food's going to be delivered by drone and you know some of the stuff sounds pie in the sky. But but really the way technology is moving. It necessarily is so yeah. 07:28.74Robert GrimesUm, was that a play on words pie in the sky. Yeah, good be pizza pie. Um. 07:30.66vigorbrandingThere you go there, you go Pi the pie. Maybe that should be a company our next company the pie pie in the sky and we'll do pie delivery. Ah, ah yeah, yeah. 07:41.35Robert GrimesYou know it's funny certain terms and technology become very popular over time and so what I tell people is the way to know what's popular is you go to a trade show and it can be an industry show. It can be a general one like cs and what I always do is I look above the aisles. And the aisles have signs and they point in different directions to zones or places you can go and I look to see what are the big words that are being used so many years ago it was 1 to 1 marketing or big data was a term out there. You know drones are so so drones and robotics are sort of interesting now. I'm really shocked. You didn't say the word ai because that is the term right now and I'm getting a little tired of it. But but that is the term right now. However, here's an interesting perspective for you about drones specifically I have said for years that I didn't think that drones were actually going to be the end all method of delivery. 08:18.93vigorbrandingYeah, oh yeah, yeah. 08:36.16Robert GrimesI think they were showy and I think that they were things that people tested and they showed the pizza coming up and dropping it. Do I think the drones will be used to deliver to remote places. Yes, as long as you can get the distance so that you can go ahead and control the drone. Yeah and as long as you can deal with. 08:36.74vigorbrandingThat's. 08:51.96Robert GrimesAir traffic control seriously and things like that that you have to deal with but their payload isn't heavy enough to carry really a lot of stuff and you're going to have food quality issues. Okay, where I really thought and you'll get the punchline on this in a second. What I really have always thought was going to be the method. Of delivering stuff was autonomous vehicles. Whether a vehicle is just a little bot that goes on a campus or whether it's a car that drives itself That's where I thought it was be so here I am at Cs Do you know that for the last 2 to 3 years at Cs putting aside Covid. That when I went to Cs. There was a whole section on drones. Interesting I haven't seen that section yet as a matter of fact, when we get off this podcast I'm going to look it up because I don't think they actually have it as a section right now now Robotics is clearly a section that's here. 09:30.80vigorbrandingHe. 09:44.59vigorbranding3 09:46.89Robert GrimesSo I think the concept of drones may have been more of a fad than a trend now. Do I think the drones are going to be big sure because anybody following current events knows the military uses the drones and that is usually how things get their funding so I'm not so hot on the drones for delivery I am very hot. On the autonomous vehicles even hotter now that I go to cs there is a whole room. Its ceos of electric vehicles and half of those electric vehicles that are there probably more than half are showing autonomous driving. 10:18.84vigorbrandingAnd he. 10:21.79Robert GrimesIncluding how to and equip in a current car but not only that they have smaller vehicles that are autonomous that can do it for delivery. That's the way I think that you know ah delivery is going to go through autonomous vehicles. Um and the drones are going to be out there and then you talk about robotics you know. I also believe in robotics I think that we're really going to see it more in the back of the house than the front of house to start for food preparation. That's very clear here at cs with robotic baristas. Ah there's going to be at the Nrf show next week a robotic pizza maker that is being used by Walmart but those are all back of the house. What you don't see is a ton of robots being used for delivery of food to tableside now United Airlines put it in their clubs. 10:58.16vigorbrandingExcuse me. 11:06.42vigorbrandingGive up. 11:09.97Robert GrimesBut it's mainly to be an assistant to somebody take away dirty dishes or bring something out. We're not seeing that kind of robotics yet we will. But I think that we will see robotics in the back. So those are 2 huge technologies. You know the autonomous and the robotics that I think you know will make a difference to us. 11:29.20vigorbrandingYeah, and then let's face it with ah you know talking to all the restaurants and chains out there I mean getting employees is a big deal. So ah, you know Necessities is a mother of invention the the back out as so the backend robotics ah is certainly important to to to help them with their business and keep their business rolling. So. 11:29.25Robert GrimesI. 11:38.40Robert GrimesIf. 11:47.14vigorbrandingI Think that's that's ah, it's a really good point that you make um so when it comes. 11:49.49Robert GrimesUm, well robotics allows us robotics allows us to also open up smaller form factor or self-operated things and I actually consider. Vending to be Robot ah robotics in a box or restaurant in a box that is robotics when they're preparing fresh food hamburgers and pizzas that are made fresh in a bending machine. Not not something you know, frozen and microwaved or whatever in there. So. 12:05.22vigorbrandingThe. 12:14.70Robert GrimesIt's not so much about solving the employee problem. It actually is a revenue generator for opening up new units. Um. 12:18.00vigorbrandingYeah, it makes a lot of sense. Well so we talk about back office or in front of house a back of house when it comes to restaurant tech I mean obviously there's there's front of house technology. There's the stuff that consumers see. There's the back of the house kitchen technology which one is growing faster. 12:29.19Robert GrimesTo change. 12:34.61vigorbrandingAnd and which one is more important. Do you think that the restaurants jump on board. 12:40.76Robert GrimesI think that people will adopt back of the house more and a lot of the technology is in the back of the house. Um, if you want to talk about employees. You know it's funny I saw somebody yesterday a company out of China out of Taiwan and they were doing simultaneous. Ah translation with earbuds now I've seen this before and I've covered this before but it always needed a phone that you had to go through the phone to the earbuds. This one did not need that so we're really getting to the point of like star trek or something where they put the earbuds in and you're just instantly talking you know conversation with somebody. It's instantly being translated. So I asked the guy you know what's your use case for this so half the people I talked to here at cs. They're all on the consumer side. They never thought about doing anything on the commercial side. So we start talking well he tells me that honey grow is using it in the kitchen. Why are they doing that because they have workers that don't speak english. 13:30.89vigorbrandingNo. 13:36.21Robert GrimesAnd so what they're doing is they're using in the kitchen to train and to do simultaneous now. That's the only one in the us that's doing it. They are doing it a ton of them over in China and other places so I see a lot of technology being used in the back of the house to help prepare foods. Ah, to do ventless cooking like sous vide cooking that's out there I see technology and how the screens and the orders and communicating with the staff in the back of the house being more efficient for doing runner systems and things the front of the house. The biggest technology change I see in the front end house besides having customers do their own ordering which is in certain things is really to do the handheld terminals you know for taking the order at tableside in the payment is almost if you think about it's almost like the biggest technology change there is but mostly changes in the back. 14:22.63vigorbrandingI mean it makes sense total sense so you know it's interesting. You're at Cs Restaurants Nations restaurant news predicts that and 2024 will be the year that restaurant tech industry shrinks as smaller tech startups either shut down or get bought by larger players. Ah, is that do you think that's a good thing I mean because I will say on this podcast I mean I can have ah I can have a a new tech concept every week because there's just so many of them out there just it's they're everywhere and I'm sure you're aggregating it. You're understanding. It. You're you're managing it. You're looking at it. So I'm sure you see the same things. Do you think it's good that that that industry shrinks. Um, what? what are your? What are your feelings there. 15:02.36Robert GrimesSo you know so as you know I have a podcast called accelerate and I've covered this issue a little bit when I talk about all in 1 systems versus best to breed and all in 1 is where you get everything from one company. Best to breed is where you focus on specific areas I think um. 15:13.66vigorbrandingE. 15:18.60Robert GrimesThe ifbta also has something called exchange and which is being released next week which has about 600 different vendors in it. You know, not not paid vendors just sort of listing I think what we're seeing is a lot of innovation but the innovation is very very focused innovation. Like it could be the the headsets or it could be the displays or it could be your payroll or training or point of sale or loyalty and so. 15:38.78vigorbrandingMean. 15:48.14Robert GrimesThere is consolidation when you have something that comes out of the blue that takes everybody by storm and the big guys sit there and they go oh. We missed the vote I will never forget an fs tech panel I did where one of the major vendors said. We missed the boat on online ordering there're now over 30 companies and this is years ago they said there's over 30 companies that are doing this now and they are basically point-of sale companies because they take payments and and they can do an order and they said we miss the boat. So what are they going to do they have to have online ordering so they go ahead and they they purchase and consolidate the companies. Sometimes it's a matter of 2 companies that come together that have very specific focused technologies and you have to put them together to make it work like 1 has this one has that and you put them together. So I think it's good. We're going to see a lot more innovation though I don't think we're going to see as much shrinkage and part of the reason for that is the hospitality schools. 16:29.70vigorbrandingUm. 16:38.30Robert GrimesAre now offering innovation and entrepreneurship as a course even Penn State where even Penn State's doing that. So um I think we're going to see more because software is a lot easier to develop than hardware and we're not hardware dependent anymore. 16:39.91vigorbrandingGreat. 16:51.84vigorbrandingIt would be interesting I mean what do you? What are you seeing at Cs I mean I know it's only been one day so far is there anything That's really standing out anything new that you want to talk about. 16:54.00Robert GrimesSo I don't know that I agree with that I hadn't heard that and I don't know that I agree with that. 17:05.16Robert GrimesYeah, the general observations is cs and I'm going to have to look for the statistics on this because I'm not exactly sure my impression right now is that cs is not as crowded as it has been number one in the past I know that wasn't your question but you know, but it also could be because Las Vegas opened up a huge new. 17:15.21vigorbrandingInteresting now. It's interesting. 17:24.42Robert GrimesConvention center is part of cs it's connected and I think they spread out more so one of the 2 things that I've noticed last year and this year is a whole pavilion on vehicles and and when I say vehicles every electric scooter car truck up to big deer. You know, big deer farming equipment is electrified. They have their own building which is amazing to me with all the ev that's in there and we're not talking about autonomous vehicles now we're talking about all of even even Amazon the other thing I noticed is the really big companies that traditionally do see yes, now have two booths. So. 17:50.40vigorbrandingWhile. 18:03.90Robert GrimesI see Lg electronics who I normally see in the main building doing video displays you know and phones now has a separate pavilion in the automotive place where they're showing their cars so that's 2 Yeah, the the expense is is amazing. So I see. 18:09.87vigorbrandingUm. 18:13.41vigorbrandingWow. 18:22.36Robert GrimesSo I think it could be because you have so much more space that it makes it look like it's not as crowded but I bet you when the stats come in. It's probably as crowded. Um I haven't gotten to the wearables area yet which I'm going to do today and there's actually a food tech area there and I'm also looking for what's in the home. 18:32.58vigorbrandingMe. 18:40.85Robert GrimesI'm a little bit surprised I haven't seen so much in the way of glasses right now in the past ah vr I went to the gaming area yesterday just to see what was there. Ah the vr and the glasses are not as widely spread as they were in the past I know that ah meta got a lot of play with the um. With the glasses that came out from raban early this year I don't view those as very functional because there's nothing on the screen. It's basically a gopro in a ah in a nice looking glass. So I'm looking forward to that so I was a little surprised. They didn't see much of that. Um, the health and wellness area I'm not seeing as many watches and things as I normally would see. Um, and the robotics I am seeing robotics here for sure. Um, there's a lot of robotics as they relate to showing mechanics of how they can start to become like a human so a robotic dog was very interesting I saw and several. Boost but you always look for those surprises that are here. But there's nothing so far that's jumped out at me except maybe what has been missing. 19:43.83vigorbrandingInteresting. Well you want to talk a little bit about the Ifbta I mean this is ah something near and dear to you I mean the talk about that a little bit. What so what? What is ibta going to get from this show. What are you hoping to do? what are your members like talk about that a little bit. 19:55.33Robert GrimesWell our members so you know the ifta the food but international food and beverage technology association Yo we have a number of different missions. We are not a lobbying organization. Although we work with many. 19:59.57vigorbrandingMcburn. 20:09.45Robert GrimesSo our mission is to promote food and beverage technology which at the beginning of this podcast. We talked about maybe having a change in definition. Um, expanding to promote it to provide education and networking for our members globally and so that means chapters that means education like our certification program. Ah, that means events we do at certain industry events where we bring people together who are interested in technology but it also means partnering with the industry owners so to speak the associations like Naqs for convenience stores the and nf for the and nra for restaurants. Ah, you know. Just ah, partnering with them the american hotel lodging association to help them to bring technology because they can't focus on all these areas. So that's our mission is education and networking of our members and in that we recognize that our members are really threefold. 1 is the individual of a small the medium or the independent. Which is you're going to find in every state then you have your mid-tierer and your enterprise which wants something different entirely and then um, you also have the supplier community and you have the other people that are sort of friends of the community that do things so we really have to fill a role for all of them. That are there. So my mission here at cs is everybody can't be everywhere although I saw a whole contingent of mcdond's Donald going by on a guided tour yesterday. So not everybody can do that so I see my role here and a couple other people here as being sort of eyes and ears to predict. What's going to happen. 21:37.80vigorbrandingIn. 21:40.91Robert GrimesOr what we should be looking at and then focus on bringing that to the companies at things like and Nrf or fste or Murrttech or the and nraio or or places like that. So that's you know that's really the role and the role I played but I will just point out 1 other thing to you that I believe that you can't. 21:53.20vigorbrandingAnd. 21:59.27Robert GrimesTalk about technology really the best way is to show people technology to show them how it's being used and coming up live on our website today tomorrow certainly by by Monday you know you're going to be able to actually talk to me on the website. But if you saw me at and nf next week I would be this standup hologram. You could talk to and I can answer questions for you as if I'm doing it right now which is a great way of doing it. So we're going to put that kind of technology to use on our own website and other technologies because we want to be able to show people realistically how it can be used without going cutting edge. We want to be or bleeding edge. 22:21.36vigorbrandingRight. 22:36.66Robert GrimesYou know we want to show them the realistic use of it. So that's really our world. Yeah. 22:38.38vigorbrandingYeah, you're trying to bring the the stuff that's way out there closer home So people can see the actual uses how they can imply it and everything else and that's brilliant I mean you bring a lot of wealth. 22:45.95Robert GrimesAnd I'm and I'm cheap like everybody else though I don't want to spend a fortune on it. So I want to work with technologies that exist. 22:51.93vigorbrandingAh, ah, very cool, very cool. Do you want to talk about your other businesses anything like that or is there anything else from ah what you're seeing at the show I mean you know as we close this out like what are some of the things you want to maybe mention. 23:01.56Robert GrimesYeah, so I mean I am involved in a lot of businesses I think I've sort of lost count over time. But personally I believe I've been involved in about 80 different businesses. But that includes multiple variations of the same business but in different geographies around the world. So you know I've never sold any hardware software ever. I've always been more of a services kind of person so today I still own a constrata which is a consulting company and a services company that does deployments for people acting as their internal staff. Never want to sell I don't run those day to day because i. Certainly don't want a conflict with the Ita which is totally impartial and open to all and everybody's equall in the ivta all the operators all the suppliers and then um, you know I spend some time on some other entrepreneurial ventures trying to help people. But again those swim lane the pacoty food service retail services in technology. 23:42.27vigorbrandingIs. 23:58.73Robert GrimesIf it's outside of those lanes I probably shouldn't be doing it. Um I am very excited about next week where we're going to have for the first time a food service innovation zone at the national retail federation show at the javit center that is a huge show is the whole Javit Center what I find fascinating every year is the book ends and I will do an article and I will do a podcast as I do every year called tail the two cities vegas is the first one with cs and rf is the second one which is retail and it's really all retail so you know, ah. 24:29.76vigorbrandingYou. 24:34.16Robert GrimesI spend my time just looking at these things whether it's constrata the ifbta or just my personal thing I will tell you 1 thing that sometimes when I talk to people. Yeah about what their preferences are in tech I always like to get a feel for it and so I'm still trying to figure out how I become that tech influencer so Samsung. Just give me 1 of their new tri screen phones that they still haven't brought out after showing it two years ago but they should just give it to me so I can go ahead and use it and just show it to people like how to use it. So that's the 1 thing I have yet to achieve. 24:56.24vigorbrandingYeah, yeah, you are kind of an old school influencer before influencers were cool. That's for sure. There's no question about that now. 25:08.74Robert GrimesFast. 25:11.19vigorbrandingSo now a couple personal things here. So talk about this polar plunge thing you do this every year. Why do you do it? how many how many years have you been doing this thing. 25:19.29Robert GrimesAh, 4 years so the polar bear plunge in Margate in on the jersey shore since I'm from Philadelphia I've had a house of Jersey Shore um I don't know it was just sort of an idea to run in and you run into the water you got to dive because you got to get. Over this year. It was like really cold. Normally it hasn't been so cold and it was really cold and you had to run out far enough. It wasn't deep enough to do the dive because the waves weren't coming in so I had to go out and I'm like coming out of my ankles and my sins are like just numb. But I've been doing it for 3 years maybe 4 and um. 25:52.11vigorbrandingAh, nice. 25:55.49Robert GrimesIt's like 3000 people they do it all over the jersey shore you could actually do one like at ten o'clock one at 111 at 121 at 1 but it was just something to do it just seemed like a good idea at the time. 26:03.31vigorbrandingyeah yeah I I too I go to the jersey shore and I don't even go in the water in July because it's still too cold. So I have no desire whatsoever to do that. But it sounds the same. 26:12.59Robert GrimesI Do want to point out to anybody listening this podcast. We don't go to the beach. We're going to the shore and I want to make sure you know that there is a beach at the shore but we go to the shore. 26:24.66vigorbrandingYep I totally get it. That's a Philly thing. So last question I asked this of everybody if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat and why. 26:34.96Robert GrimesUm, a final meal. Um, well I mean I'm a huge steak fan but that's like what every prisoner orders for their last meal right? So I'm not so sure I want to I want to be there Um, a final meal. 26:46.23vigorbrandingAh. 26:48.40Robert GrimesThat's like really ah a tough question I'm sure it would be something it would be something like a steak of some sort that was out there just because I just happen ah like steakhouses and St it might be a plant. It might be a plant. It might be a plant based one by the way over time I did have. 26:58.18vigorbrandingIs there a particular steakhouse that you love. 27:07.39Robert GrimesJust just a note I love having conversations with people so I had a conversation at a function last night with this guy who told me he went vegan and he asked me what I thought the future of vegan was and whether people would adopt it over time and my response to him was this is about tech and food tech I said hey listen who would have thought ten years ago you could go to a burger King and get a whopper that you might not know the difference between a beef flopper one made a plant. So my view over time is that steak that I'm eating and I understand that ah Leonardo Dicaprio invested in a company that's doing plant-based steak is they're working on that and over time. 27:30.74vigorbrandingE so. 27:39.44vigorbrandingHere. 27:44.42Robert GrimesThere may be no difference and I will be eating a steak and as long as the texture the taste. You know the satisfaction is the same we're going to forget that you know over time and so I don't know if it'll be a plant-based steak for my last meal or whether it would be you know, really good I Love independent steakhouses I have a favorite here The Golden seer. Ah. 27:53.90vigorbrandingUm. 28:02.38vigorbrandingOh yeah. 28:04.28Robert GrimesWhich is a friend you know that has that it started in 1958 he wasn't around then but it's great. But I just like the old time steakhouses. 28:12.91vigorbrandingVery cool, very cool Rob look. It's always ah fascinating. It's always a pleasure I always enjoy talking to you I really appreciate your time. Enjoy the rest of Cs and thank you. 28:22.63Robert GrimesWell no, it's the pleasure I know I see it several times during the year and it always turns out to be a good conversation. It's a lot of ideas and actually even this conversation today just gave me a few thoughts that I might want to take a look at so thank you for having me. 28:32.22vigorbrandingMe too me too me too. Absolutely thanks. Rob. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Ut elit tellus, luctus nec ullamcorper mattis, pulvinar dapibus leo.

GiftAMeal is an app that allows diners to take a photo of their order from a partner restaurant. For each photo taken, GiftAMeal donates to a local food bank to provide a meal to a family in need. Each month, more than 40,000 meals are provided through more than 100 local food banks in 37 states via GiftAMeal. In the last year, GiftAMeal has grown from 200 to almost 1,000 partner restaurants. Andrew fell in love with the profits-with-a-purpose business model as a student at Washington University. While there, he owned and operated a non-profit storefront dedicated to reuse and sustainability. Later, while interning at a venture capital firm, he developed the idea for GiftAMeal on his lunch break. GiftAMeal works with individual restaurants and franchises or franchise groups of restaurants like Red Robin. Making GiftAMeal an easy plug-and-play concept for restaurants and larger chains is a goal in 2024. QUOTES “Making an impact is something that's always been important to me. I also love the creative autonomy that comes with entrepreneurship and trying to find those win-win scenarios and align incentives for different parties.” (Andrew) “We've seen that guests using GiftAMeal are returning 39% more frequently, they're spending 20% more per visit and they're tipping 32% more than a standard guest.” (Andrew) “We started off as a mobile app, but we've always paid attention to the different technologies that were being developed.” (Andrew) “Fuse Marketing and 5W PR studies found that 84% of Gen Z were more likely to purchase from a brand if (the brand) gives back and 71% of Millennials would pay more for a product if they knew that some of the proceeds were going to a good cause.” (Andrew) “Entrepreneurship is not an easy journey.” (Andrew) TRANSCRIPT 00:00.00 vigorbranding Hello everyone today's episode of flirk tales I am joined by someone who takes cause marketing and entrepreneurial spirit to a new level. His name is Andrew Glanz and he's the founder of gift a meal. Welcome Andrew and tell us a little bit about yourself and some of your backstory. 00:14.43 Andrew Glantz Yeah, of course. Um so I'm originally from Los Angeles and I came out to St Louis to go to wash you for college when I was a student there I owned and operated a nonprofit storefront to promote reuse and sustainability and volunteered for various causes and. Ah, then when I had a summer internship at a venture capital firm and got exposed to the startup world I fell in love with the scalability of it and found out about the idea of a profits with a purpose business model that you could do well while doing good and came up with the idea for gift and meal when I was on a lunch break break and kind of ran with it and put my savings into it. Graduated in May Twenty seventeen and started out in St Louis and now started to really scale it up and grow it into what it is today. 01:01.68 vigorbranding That's very cool now like you know I'm I'm somewhat of an entrepreneur I started my own business when I was 27 and grew several companies and I love it. I mean I Just think it's ah a great way to be and and I love the energy of it. So How did you become this entrepreneur. How did you all? sorry. Family of entrepreneurs I mean just had ideas tell me about you like what would would motivate. You. 01:21.14 Andrew Glantz Yeah I mean I think that making an impact has always been something that's important to me and then I also just like the creative autonomy that comes with entrepreneurship and trying to find those win-win scenarios and align incentives for different parties and so with gifted meal I was trying to look at how we could. Create a win for the restaurants in terms of marketing win for them and and an easy way to add a community engagement program for them and then for food banks in terms of their fundraising and not taking a lot of effort for them to connect and be able to raise more funding and for diners to be able to discover and support socially conscious restaurants and. So I kind of combined all those together along with Tom shoes warby parker buy 1 give 1 model and applied it to the restaurant industry where guests can just take a photo of their food or drink at a restaurant that's a partner and then we make a donation to a local food bank to give a meal to someone in need in their community so tried to make it. Easy and align all those stakeholders. 02:19.11 vigorbranding It's fantastic I Mean it's a great Obviously it's a great cause it's ah it's a great concept and it's ah it's really, ah, a very smart model I mean I'm I'm really intrigued I Want to learn more about this. Um, so the gift of meal. How how does it work like you know you know you talked about it started. You had the idea you went to school. Um, you want to do good all good things. But how does how does it work like I mean I'll say this from the entrepreneurial side I mean we all got to make a living I mean you know you have nice clothes on I'm sure everyone's got to make a living. How does the model work like teach me teach me how it works. 02:40.96 Andrew Glantz Um, yeah. 02:47.85 Andrew Glantz Absolutely so the program is funded by the restaurant and free for the guest who's dining at the restaurant and so the restaurant's paying a flat monthly program fee to be involved so for a single unit mom and pop. It's $59 a month then each time a guest dines at the restaurant whether it's. Dine in take out her delivery. They can scan a Qr code off of signage from the restaurant which launches gift to meal on their phone. They then take a photo of their food or drink and when they do that we make a monetary donation from that program fee that the restaurant pays to a local food bank to cover its cost of providing a meal to someone to need in their community. And then the guest is invited to share that photo on their personal Facebook Instagram or Twitter x and we give an extra meal for each platform they share on since then they're promoting the restaurant to their friends in a positive way. Um in terms of the donation component. The donations are all local so we match. Each restaurant location to a food bank that services the county that they're in and each of these different food banks gets food donated to them by supermarkets food distributors community food drives and in storeing these big distribution facilities and then where gifted meal comes in is donating money to help fund the distribution costs. Getting that food from these big facilities to the hundreds of neighborhood pantries where those in need could actually access the food. So typically the food banks have listed on their website for every dollar donated they could provide 4 meals to those in need or 5 meals or three meals. So approximately it costs about twenty five cents to distribute a meal's worth of food in bulk. 04:19.56 Andrew Glantz Um, and so that's the amount that we're actually donating per photo taken. 04:23.27 vigorbranding That's awesome. So then you're helping facilitate Basically the outsourcing of the food or the the backend or back office. It's not really a food thing but I mean you're you're funding the the distribution the distribution model. So that's wonderful and then I mean so you know the the the. 04:33.92 Andrew Glantz Um, yeah. 04:40.34 vigorbranding Restaurant themselves in they get to tout the fact that they're doing this. They can feel good about themselves obviously but from a marketing perspective. They really get to sort of like ah say hey look. We're really supporting our community here. How are they? how are they taking advantage of that. 04:44.63 Andrew Glantz Um. 04:48.94 Andrew Glantz Yeah, yeah, Absolutely I mean the restaurant could be posting about it on their social media channels about how many meals they're providing and everything but more than that one step further with gift to meal. It's an interactive level of social responsibility. Where the guest feels good about themselves because they're putting in some amount of effort to take the photo but they feel that sense of gratitude towards the restaurant because the restaurant's the one that's ultimately paying for it and so it really creates that sense of emotional connection between the guest and the restaurant. 05:14.14 vigorbranding Um. 05:18.83 Andrew Glantz And makes them feel good about choosing that restaurant in addition to encouraging them to promote the restaurant to friends on social media and so we've seen that the guests using gift a meal on average are returning 39 % more frequently. They're spending 20% more per visit and they're tipping 32% more than a standard guest. Because of that sense of emotional connection. They have raises and satisfaction rates. You know the restaurant's getting Goodwill with these customers and they're also getting more word of mouth recommendations as a result on their social media to their friends and everything so it is something that's really cool to be able to see a true marketing return without having to. Ah, discount or offer Coupons or anything that slashes the margins for the restaurant. 05:58.88 vigorbranding Yeah, it's it's brilliant I mean because I mean let's face it. We are a marketing firm we market and and help market restaurants and you know a lot of times. It's all the different deals and the the value meals and all these kinds of things that you got to try and entice customers and you you brought forth a really smart ah program. 06:13.95 Andrew Glantz Next. 06:15.31 vigorbranding And it's It's pretty remarkable and and I love the fact that you know your numbers I mean you can you're you're able to tell talk about the the growth and sales the tipping which is really important to the servers and we got take care of the servers I think it's really an interesting ah model Really really, really cool so you should be yeah, be very proud of what you built. 06:22.60 Andrew Glantz Enough. 06:32.14 vigorbranding So like Okay, so how do you? How do you sell Now you know again be an entrepreneur come up with ideas. Great idea. Brilliant idea. Got the numbers. How do you sell like how do you go out and market it and what's your best way and what's it like are you knocking on doors are you making phone calls. Are you going to shows I mean how do you get this this program to. 06:49.74 Andrew Glantz Yeah, it's a great question I mean originally I when I didn't have a car when I was in college I was going up and down the street in the snow between 2 and four thirty p m to mom and pop restaurants to try to talk to the owners and to have them join and. 06:50.34 vigorbranding To the right people. 07:05.62 Andrew Glantz Ah, pitched them on the program and then from there we were able to sign up some restaurant groups and then we had some franchisees join and then we had a 30 location regional chain sign up for gift to meal and then we started to expand from there now we're in 37 states across um, almost a thousand restaurants and. Um, at one point seven million meals provided to those in need and so it was kind of continually de-risking ourselves with different types of restaurants and larger restaurant groups. Um, so now we work with multiple brands that you know have over 100 locations system-wide so we work with all 100. 07:38.76 vigorbranding So. 07:42.32 Andrew Glantz 30 locations of Lee's famous recipe chicken all 110 pizza factory locations we work with 162 gong chaw locations and we also work with franchisees of brands like Jimmy John's and chick-fil-a and um and lots of others and fuzzy talker shop and so red Robin Tgi fridays and so it's something that's been really exciting to connect with all these different types of brands in terms of where I meet them. You know sometimes they reach out to us on our website after you know, seeing us in the news. Sometimes it's introductions from our current restaurants other times it's going to conferences and. Ah, Mike you've said other times it's just kind of cold reaching out to them with a Linkedin email or phone call and just trying to start up a genuine conversation from a cold interaction and finding those brands that could be a likeminded fit. 08:31.70 vigorbranding You know I love it and I love the ah the started in the college and no car. You know I have a friend one of my very best friends. Extremely successful guy. He he went to college with his brother. Ah, he ended up going for pizza the first night. Ah. Didn't know what else to do second nigh second they were hungry. Let's go for pizza. Third night they were hungry. They went for pizza so 3 nights and early get a pizza shop. They said the pizza guy hey look if we pass out Coupons for your pizza shop. Do you think? maybe you give us like a discount on pizza guys like sure. Yeah pass them out to all the college or that created a thing called the coupon clipper. Coupon clipper is a hugely successful magazine across the country I think there's something like maybe I get this number wrong. But I'm going to suggest 125 magazines coupon clipper magazines at 1 point in time around the United States it's ah a huge company ended up being sold to kinet. 09:16.76 Andrew Glantz Man. 09:23.13 vigorbranding Ah, anyway, just like you did like just a so a simple like I'm going to go out I'm going to knock on a door I'm going to find something out I'm going to go to the next one knock on the door So congratulations I Just I'm always in awe of entrepreneurship and just the people in the and the fortitude that that bring these things and these ideas forth. It's awesome. 09:37.76 Andrew Glantz Thank you. 09:39.75 vigorbranding Um, if you ah if you can say I mean who's your who's your biggest client and have you are you trying to talk to some of the you know so the franchisees The actual franchise are you having any a look there. 09:48.99 Andrew Glantz Yes, it's a little bit of a mix I mean we can work with all different types of organizations whether it's something system-wide like we could work with a brand across a thousand locations. We could work with a brand if they're an 100 location brand or a thirty location brand. Ah, for us. We're really flexible to however the organization does budgeting. So for example for gong cha with their 162 locations. Lee's chicken 130 and pizza factories one 10 um, those are all paid for by corporate out of their marketing and advertising funds and they pay for all the franchisees to be on gift a meal. 10:18.37 vigorbranding Ah. 10:24.18 Andrew Glantz Um, but then we also work with the franchisees directly um like a red Robin Franch franchisee Lehih Valley Restaurant group in Pennsylvania has 20 red robins and so we just just work with them directly and they pay for gift and meal. But we don't have any interaction with corporate on that side. So you know I'd love to have red Robin as a brand across all locations. 10:29.64 vigorbranding He. 10:40.51 vigorbranding Sure. 10:44.17 Andrew Glantz Um, that's one of those things where you know we can hopefully prove out the value to the franchisees get introductions from one franchisee to another get introductions to corporate and continue to go that way so we go both a bottom-up approach and a top-down approach and in terms of the size of the brands like you know there's. Brands that we're having conversations with that have thousands of locations and it's something that's really exciting there and we've gotten feedback from them and built new product offerings where we've created and essentially a white labelbeled version of gift ameal that's custom branded to their brand colors and everything. 11:02.90 vigorbranding Awesome. 11:13.30 vigorbranding Hey. 11:18.16 Andrew Glantz Could be integrated into their own mobile applications. Their online ordering solutions to have it really feel like a native solution for them. Um, and so that's something that we're really can be focused on in 2024 Um, is you know how can we work with these larger players and have get to meal be in really easy plug and play. Social Responsibility Community engagement tool for them. 11:36.55 vigorbranding Yeah I Love that idea I think that's brilliant. The the white labeling and letting them sort of for lack about a word get credit for this concept right? I mean because you know it is it really is your your success is is all dependent upon their their success and and and their brand and that's why they're doing it. So. 11:44.42 Andrew Glantz Yeah, yeah. 11:55.92 vigorbranding I Think that's fantastic I Think it's super super smart. How I mean what is the Ah how how likely are people to download the app I mean what are your I mean everybody's got turbulence. Everyone hits like speed bumps like you always have things, especially it's not entrepreneur. There's things you have to overcome. 11:56.30 Andrew Glantz Um. 12:07.11 Andrew Glantz Yes. 12:12.77 vigorbranding I mean the first thing might have been the first restaurant to stop to jump on. Okay, great. So but you have a great story. Ah you you bring forth. Ah, the time when you had your first restaurant you you didn't have any traction so you couldn't say we're going to increase your tips we're going to increase your sales you were going to increase your visits but you had a great idea so someone took a chance on you and your concept which is great. 12:23.40 Andrew Glantz Yeah. 12:31.68 vigorbranding But as we grow as you grow What? what are? what are some of the stumbling the roadblocks and I was wondering I guess is is getting people to download the app or or things like that does that become any kind of a friction point. 12:42.90 Andrew Glantz Yeah, absolutely. Um and so we we started off as a mobile app but we always paid attention to the different technologies that were being developed so Apple released and a concept called an app clip and Android released something similar called an instant app where you could just scan a Qr code and launch. The app on your phone without having to download an app onto your device and so it's a really clean and quick full-screen experience. So it's kind of like a light version of an app. Um, and that's kind of what we've adopted with most of these partner restaurants nowadays that we've developed over the last year is this app clip version of gift a meal. Don't actually have to download the full app onto your phone in order to participate and take your photo. It just gives that quick experience skim the qr code take a photo to give a meal and then you're done and there's no account creation or download required. Um, if you want to download the full mobile app you can and you can see the list of all the partner restaurants on there. You can see the photos that other customers have taken and you can have a profile you can see friends photos and all of that. Um, but we realized that there were kind of those 2 different types of consumers. The consumers that wanted that full experience and consumers that just wanted something really really quick and easy. And so that's why we created both avenues so people can kind of choose how much they want to engage. 13:53.71 vigorbranding Yeah I Love it. That's great. That's great. Do you ah different. Obviously you mentioned some of your your customers. Um, do do any fine dining restaurants as anybody like that got involved and I guess you know you're looking for scale so you're probably looking for larger groups. But I mean like if it was ah you know? ah. Ah Pf Chang or or any it's something more than a a simple qsr and anything anything like that has anybody like that jumped on. 14:18.71 Andrew Glantz Yeah, and I mean we have plenty of casual dining and fine dining restaurants and lots of you know we're about half mom and pops and restaurant groups compared to chains and um, you know we've seen that they've done well on gift to meal too. It's just figuring about. 14:26.83 vigorbranding Um, sure. 14:31.99 Andrew Glantz How to promote the program in a way that fits into the restaurant's customer experience seamlessly. So for instance at a qsr like fast casual brand. They might be able to have a table tent up on the table or a window cling in the drive-through window. 14:36.34 vigorbranding Here. 14:49.67 Andrew Glantz Ah, so that customers know how to participate in gift a meal and they can scan the Qr code at a fine dining restaurant. You're not going to put a table tent on a white tablecloth and so it's figuring out. Okay are you going to have something on the menu so customers know how they can participate. Is it going to be something in like a check presenter. Is it going to be a little menu insert. 14:58.74 vigorbranding A. 15:07.83 Andrew Glantz And so we've had fine dining restaurants be successful, but um, you know there've been in terms of our kind of core restaurant grouping it more falls in the line of qsr fast casual casual dining. Um at the elevated casual dining. Um and not as much like super. $4 sign fine dining restaurants. 15:29.50 vigorbranding That's great. So like um obviously ah businesses have um times where they're They're busy like sales times and gift and meal. It lends right into the holidays gift right? And so I would think this is a great time and probably arguably. 15:39.29 Andrew Glantz Yeah. 15:43.92 vigorbranding Maybe the middle of the summer would have been the time you're out there really pushing this but during the holidays this gift meal seems like it could be a great time for you to really kind of like catch fire and and and again I know that ah the last thing the food banks probably needed on Thanksgiving or the day before is a turkey right? They're probably pretty well covered. Unfortunately and and it's an important thing to to be honest, all year round for sure I mean this is something the the food banks need food probably more so ah other times a year than than during the the heart of the holidays I guess I'm just wondering. Ah, do you find this to be a good time to talk to people because again the gifting a meal and and feel people sort of feel maybe a little more. Ah, apt to be generous this time of year so selling through and maybe even seeing. Do you see more participation with the the customers in the restaurants at this time of year. 16:29.73 Andrew Glantz Yeah, it's good question so I'll kind of walk through those 3 different groups. The food banks the diners at the restaurants and the restaurants themselves for the food banks I mean they do have a big need in the holiday season and just in the winter season in general when it's cooled outside. They have a spike in the need for services. In the summer months that is particularly challenging for kids that are facing food insecurity because they don't have access to the school lunches and um, you know so filling that meal gap for the kids is something really important for the food banks but you know they really just need more support all year round for the food. Banks. 16:54.55 vigorbranding Um. 17:06.25 Andrew Glantz On the ah you know diner side of things that people dining out at restaurants. You know we see that in the season of giving in the holidays people are really apt to use a program like gift a meal and kind of lean into it and something that makes them feel good about themselves and that they're really actively looking for and so it stands out to them in a really positive way. Um. Again throughout the whole course of the year you know we've seen that people are looking to give back I mean there were a couple consumer culture reports. Um, that were done by fuse marketing and 5 wpr and it found that 84% of Gen Z would said that they would be more likely to purchase from a brand if they give back and. 17:42.70 vigorbranding A. 17:44.88 Andrew Glantz 71% of millennials said that they would pay more for a product if they knew that some of the proceeds were going to support a good cause and that's regardless of the timing of the year in terms of the restaurant side of things this time of year is tough to get the ear of restaurant owners and executives just because you know holiday season people are busy. 17:53.97 vigorbranding But. 18:01.11 vigorbranding Yeah. 18:03.24 Andrew Glantz Um, and so you know typically in terms of you know those types of conversations we get a lot of people saying this is great. Let's talk in January for the next year but then we also see people that say hey let's talk now because we're setting our budgets in November and December Four 24 18:18.29 Andrew Glantz Um, or you know we want to launch this on January First we have a number of restaurants that are already set to launch on January first and so that'll be something really exciting. So you know it's a little bit of a mix of everything sometimes restaurants are looking for things for the holiday season. Um, but once we're already kind of in it. Um, you know, just. People in general at any job get busy during the holidays and yeah. 18:38.75 vigorbranding Yeah, they got to make their way through right? So and you know I mean um, again I keep sound I'm impressed by the model I Love it and we you know in in in our company. We have several different agencies and one one is an agency that focuses on restaurants vigor and I will. I Going to be sure to talk to our clients about your your your product I think it's ah think it's a great I Think it's a great product I think it's ah I think makes ah you know you always look for win-win in a way I mean your's like a win-win win right? The food banks and the folks the food banks are helped the people going to the food banks are helped. The patrons are. 18:57.17 Andrew Glantz Thanks. 19:10.56 vigorbranding Feeling good about themselves and it's it's great marketing for the restaurant so you got like 4 wins there and that's ah, that's pretty unheard of so. 19:15.23 Andrew Glantz Yeah, and tad and another one something that's kind of cool from the marketing agency perspective um is that with gift tomeal. We give a restaurant access to a dashboard where they could access all of the user-generated content created from the program and they have the rights to use that content in their marketing and social media efforts. 19:28.88 vigorbranding Nice. 19:32.58 Andrew Glantz And so we've had our partner restaurants give their marketing agency access to the dashboard so they can create some really cool engaging. Authentic user-generated content pieces to push out in their marketing efforts. That's been something really cool to see and what the marketing agencies have kind of. 19:37.80 vigorbranding Love it. 19:48.97 Andrew Glantz Taken and run away with with gift a meal. 19:49.21 vigorbranding So if I if I did the math race. It's around seven hundred bucks a year per location is that is that simply how it breaks down at $59 a month or whatever something like that. Yeah. 19:58.41 Andrew Glantz Yeah, so that's the price for an independent restaurant to join for a single location if a restaurant has 5 plus locations we discount based off the number of locations. So if a place has over 30 locations then it's $39 a month per location if they pay monthly or 34 if they pay annually. 20:05.32 vigorbranding Um, okay. 20:14.22 vigorbranding Gotcha. 20:17.65 Andrew Glantz Um, and so you know discount rate for more locations they can go month to month with no commitment and cancel at the end of any month. Um or they can pay annually for a slightly discounted rate because it's you know it's more predictable cash flow for us and um for budgeting but um, but yeah, so you know it's a. 20:30.12 vigorbranding Sure. Absolutely. 20:36.71 Andrew Glantz Try to make it affordable and have a flat predictable rate for budgeting for the restaurants and we cover all the cost of the donations from there. So we have 6 of us on the team right now. So you know we're small and scrappy stay lean. 20:42.57 vigorbranding I Love it How many employees do you have nice, very cool. That's hey it's a way to be if you're an entrepreneur and you you want to make it. That's what you got to be? you know the last thing you need is is lots and lots of Pete mouths defeat. But. 20:53.00 Andrew Glantz Even. 20:57.82 vigorbranding Are you doing all the sales are you the guy hitting the the payment or you have a team now. 21:01.94 Andrew Glantz Um I have a team. Um, yeah Allison and Danny are also working on the sales as well and they're wonderful. Um, and you know like they've you know they've started to have some really great ones like I mean Lee's famous recipe chicken with 130 locations 21:13.58 vigorbranding Awesome! yeah. 21:16.52 Andrew Glantz That was Danny who brought that in in pizza factory with 110 locations that was Allison and then gong cha with 162 that was me and so you know the 3 biggest sales were all from 3 different people on the team and so to you know, really progress in the business to not just be founder led sales is something that. 21:26.34 vigorbranding That's awesome. 21:34.48 Andrew Glantz Has been really exciting because it shows me that you know we actually have something here. Um, that's beyond myself and um, you know it's something where I always want to be kind of involved in sales because I want to be having that customer interaction and be learning what customers need and how to further adapt our product and. 21:36.36 vigorbranding Is. 21:51.79 Andrew Glantz Ah, you know at the end of the day sales is what's going to be most important both to grow the business grow our revenue and then also to grow our level of social impact and give the most meals possible. Um, but you know where you can grow a lot faster with people like Danny and Allison on our team. 22:07.86 vigorbranding That's great and obviously too I mean scalability is huge right? So you can't be the guy all the time. So the more that others can can I'll say enjoy and feel good about the sales. Ah the better it is for your company. It raises right? You know high tide rises up all the boats. So that's ah, that's fantastic. So. 22:11.89 Andrew Glantz Yeah. 22:21.57 Andrew Glantz And. 22:23.30 vigorbranding Again as an entrepreneur like you know and have a lot of respect for what you're doing here. You're grown fast and you recently beat out 35000 applicants to win an Amazon small business grant. Can you talk about that talk about the program and and it so makes you be very proud of. 22:36.44 Andrew Glantz Yeah, yeah, I mean I thought it was throwing a dart at a very far away dartboard when I applied for it. I mean like you said 35000 applicants and um with a big name competition from Amazon Business it was something I thought we had no shot at. Ah, but you know I fill out the application because why not it took me 10 minutes to fill out the application talking about kind of our traction our growth over the last year we've doubled in size and kind of the vision for where we want to go and um I got the alert that we were 1 of 10 finalists and. Ah, you know that was something that was really exciting and started to think okay, maybe this is something that's possible and then Amazon business opened it up to everybody with an Amazon business account to be able to vote. Um it was blind voting so we had no idea how many votes we had um and as one but vote pre Amazon Business Accounts no one could really rig it. Um, and it. You know we ended up finding out that we won and we got a $25000 non-dillutive grant and that was something that was incredible and Amazon actually flew out here to St Louis and they had a team of like 11 people to film a video and take photos and all this stuff and that'll be coming out soon and. Ah, you know it was just something that was a really cool experience and to feel the support from the Amazon business team was incredible. Um, and you know the funding um to be able to support us goes a really long way and so yeah I mean it was something I was. 24:05.54 Andrew Glantz Pretty flabbergasted with and a positive way and very very grateful for to really push forward with our mission. 24:07.18 vigorbranding It's awesome. 24:13.76 vigorbranding That's great. So ah I mean so there's more people on the on the camera crew for Amazon than in your company. 24:17.39 Andrew Glantz Yes, it was. It was a wild experience like we filmed at the food bank that we work with in St Louis we filmed at one of our partner restaurants and it was it was quite the production. 24:28.70 vigorbranding That's great, very cool and so $25000 you probably just went out and what had 1 hell of a dinner right? So what you know I'm just kidding what it ah caviar jets champagne no. 24:35.40 Andrew Glantz Not not quiet I I think that that that goes kind of right in you Yeah not not quite more on sales marketing and products. Yeah. 24:44.21 vigorbranding Yeah, excellent, Okay, good true. Um entrepreneur I Love it I Love it I Love it. That's fantastic. What other what other advice. What advice do you have for other entrepreneurs who have a dream or have an idea is there anything you want to? ah you know, throw out there. 24:57.51 Andrew Glantz Yeah, that's a good question I mean for other entrepreneurs I Think the big thing is if you have an idea talk to people in the space, especially those are that are going to be your potential partners or customers to figure out the problems that they're facing and the pain points I think something with gift to meal. 25:11.61 vigorbranding In. 25:15.31 Andrew Glantz Um, but I figured out is that everybody is busy and figuring out how to make things as easy and plug and play as possible was what we found a lot of success with so making it no effort for staff. No mental energy for the restaurant to have another program to have to think about just be really simple and easy. Um and have every touch point. 25:21.71 vigorbranding Um. 25:34.77 Andrew Glantz Um, with the customer be something that's important is something that I figured out and then I think more than anything. It's just getting out there and doing it and seeing what the response is like and learning and being willing to fail and having a low ego so that you know you could admit when you're wrong and. 25:35.76 vigorbranding Yeah. 25:50.80 Andrew Glantz Continually iterate and learn and and like reimplement and just kind of go from there and I think that if you're also just kind of a kind person and put yourself out there that you know people will want to help you succeed People are generally good and. Um, don't be afraid to ask people for help in a reasonable way and um, then also you know always make sure to give that back to support everybody else along the way just as those have supported you. 26:18.46 vigorbranding That's great and you just like probably put together what you could put a book together on because I mean as far as being an entrepreneur I mean like some of the things you hit I just think are just absolutely ah poignant. Ah, you know don't be afraid to fail I mean you know I personally have started businesses I'll be honest I've started businesses that were better than the business. Better ideas than the businesses that were successful timing might have been wrong just didn't quite hit it right on the ah the scale the luck scale or whatever you want to call it and I mean I think you do make your own luck. But I mean sometimes it's a timing thing and but you can't be afraid right? You can't be afraid to fail. 1 thing I did years ago I talked to my I had 2 daughters and we were in a restaurant somewhere and we were just talking about like like just work and business and life and all stuff and I said to my girls I said look around see this restaurant and they're like looking around and so I said everybody in this restaurant everybody in this restaurant has an idea or had an idea for a business or a product. Everybody everybody said one day I'm going to start this or hey we should do this or I'm gonna do this or I have this idea and I'm gonna make and you know what hardly any of them probably executed on it and that's really it comes down to it's like to do it like you said just do it you you sat there. You you had your you were at that break you you know you looked at other other business models which is smart and you had this idea. 27:20.13 Andrew Glantz Right? so. 27:30.35 vigorbranding And you're like Wow, It's a good idea and you two choices right? You can just say oh that's a good idea and just like go do whatever else you finish your sandwich. Whatever you're doing lunch or you sort of take this further and start to build on it and execute and actually execute spend time that you're not getting paid for ah that you could be doing candidly something else. Ah and then doing it and applying yourself and it says. People don't realize it so there's nights that you were working on this thing or this time or this the dedicated time that you put into this ah that that no one sees they see this. They see you now they see the success and all that and you think that's what that's easy or that's what you do, but people don't realize all the. The nose that you probably heard along the way or that's not really a great idea or whatever you heard I'm not I'm sure you heard stuff but it's ah that's the hard part right? and then people know about that. They'll just see the success and they'll read the article. They'll see the hey liquid he built and it's it's ah it's tough. You know, but it's it's cool like there's nothing more Fulfilling. Um. 28:07.50 Andrew Glantz Yeah. 28:22.83 Andrew Glantz Yeah, absolutely and I mean now looking back people are like oh that's such a simple like great idea. But at the beginning you know it was something was like oh well, anybody actually do this thing and before we had the case studies with the restaurants this show that there was a boost in revenue that resulted in visit frequency and tip size. 28:22.88 vigorbranding Then then building something. 28:28.79 vigorbranding Like. 28:41.34 Andrew Glantz Um, you know it was something where people were skeptical um about if this was something that would be sustainable. Um, and you know there were 5 different times in our company's history where we had one month of runway left in the bank account before you know we'd go under and I either had to like sign up a new restaurant close an investor with a pitch competition. 28:41.96 vigorbranding You. 28:50.70 vigorbranding A. 28:59.45 Andrew Glantz Cut costs and find a way to make things happen and you know now as a company we found a way to have it grow in a sustainable Way. We're almost at breakeven for a comp for the company and you know it's something that's really exciting but you know it's not entrepreneurship is not an easy journey by any means. But. You know like I mentioned earlier the creative autonomy that comes with it is something that I cherish and that's really exciting and to be able to build a company culture in the way that I envision for how true people should be treated and in order to figure out how we're going to have our impact be On. All these different stakeholders whether it's our investors or whether it's the restaurants or the patrons arepoint to the restaurants or the food banks and manching those relationships in what I deem to be the right way is something that is just extraordinarily special to me and to be able to see gifted meal as kind of like my baby start to grow is. Um, something that is just incredibly meaningful and makes all of the hard work and the long hours and the challenging times be worth it. 30:01.51 vigorbranding Yeah, it's fantastic, Very cool, very cool. Is there anything else I mean are you working on anything else any other ideas. Ah percolating I mean anything else you want to talk about with gifted meal. Is there anything else you want to bring forth. 30:13.15 Andrew Glantz Um, That's a good question I'm not working on any other ideas outside of gift to meal get to meal it kind of takes up everything for me and I put my all into it. Um, but yeah I mean I think it's something where with get meal. We're constantly Innovating. We've launched some really cool tech integrations. Ah, like we've launched integrations with the online ordering platform olo with loyalty and marketing marketing platforms like Lunchbox. Thanks and incent Tv where now Gifty meal can be integrated as. 30:32.31 vigorbranding A me. 30:43.20 Andrew Glantz A button into the restaurant's own white labeled mobile white labeled mobile app so there could be a button within there to gift a meal or at the end of their olo online ordering experience. There could be the prompts to gift a meal and so you know those types of innovations of. Working with these other solutions in the food. Tech ecosystem is something that's really exciting as well. And um, you know it's something. That's you know we're excited to see the impact grow as we work with more partners of these different vendors in the space that work with restaurants and how we can help them provide value to their clients. As well as you know as we look to work with larger and larger brands and more food banks and we're now working with over 100 food banks across the country in 37 states and you know our goal is to be in all 50 states by this time next year and 2024 so um, you know I'm just. 31:31.49 vigorbranding It's awesome. 31:33.96 Andrew Glantz Incredibly grateful for doing what I do every day and grateful to people like you for helping give me a megaphone to share this with the world. 31:41.39 vigorbranding Absolutely I'm proud to proud to to to do this with you I mean and I said and I'm I'm a man of my word we have restaurants that we work with I think this would be a a really smart add on so we'll definitely keep this conversation going. So my last question I asked is to everybody every guest. Ah, if you have 1 final meal. 31:50.30 Andrew Glantz Thank you. 31:58.41 vigorbranding What would you eat and why. 32:00.24 Andrew Glantz Um, if I had 1 final meal I think ah it's actually funny their gifted meal partner in St Louis ah it's called posture. yeah yeah I know ah it's ah it was. It's ah it was actually one of it was like our 1 of our first. 32:09.23 vigorbranding Ah, free plug. Ah. 32:16.38 Andrew Glantz Ah, like well-known like James Beard award winningning restaurants in terms of like more finer fine dining place called posteria and it's italian it's just italian food to to the max problem in the Us. Ah, and ah yeah, no their their bolognnaise is just incredible and. 32:20.18 vigorbranding E. 32:27.92 vigorbranding Be here. 32:35.30 vigorbranding Yeah. 32:35.30 Andrew Glantz You know also get a pizza and something else there. So I'd say a comprehensive full meal at Posteria um would be my final meal. 32:42.60 vigorbranding Fantastic. That's very good very good I do actually have 1 other question too because just the the way you know the entrepreneurial side of me and how you start out. Did you have to ah like your first restaurant when you try you have this great concept. You know you came up with this pricing of ah $70 a month or you know whatever 69 whatever it was a month did you have to give one away for free. Did you have to do 1 restaurant say hey look you know what? I'm going to cover this. You do this? Let's see that this works did you have to do that or talk about that just that very quickly. 33:10.43 Andrew Glantz Yeah, at the very beginning it was the first forty restaurants that we did for free. Um and you know we no longer have that free plane anymore. But um, you know it was one of those things where like you said it's the chicken or the egg of like you know, getting people to use it and getting validation and. 33:11.90 vigorbranding Wow. 33:22.40 vigorbranding It's right sure. 33:25.40 Andrew Glantz But even getting restaurants to sign up for free for something was tough because it's another thing for them to think about that wasn't proven and so is kind of me going in there saying hey like this could be a value to you. It's going to make an impact for the community If you're an early adopter that like we depreciate it like help help out this young guy who's trying to do good in the world and um. 33:39.64 vigorbranding E. 33:43.66 Andrew Glantz You know and then we were able to prove out the concept and then sign up others and convert those restaurants to be on sustainable plants for the long term and yeah, but you know it's one of the things where at the beginning you have to you know? Yeah, you have to prove it out. 33:54.86 vigorbranding s what you got to do yep, give it away. Yep good for you andrew I mean you've all the grit in the world of an entrepreneur. Obviously you're successful I congratulate you on your success and appreciate the time this is really ah, really an enlightened conversation all right. 34:08.30 Andrew Glantz Yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity. 34:12.60 vigorbranding We'll talk soon.

opsi is a daily workflow app built to progress the way modern operators manage their restaurant. With robust recipe management, true recipe costing, task and food prep lists, and product guides, opsi is suited for any operation looking to maximize efficiencies within their kitchen team, and cut down on employee training times. James has 20 years of experience in the hospitality industry and a strong vision for technology's role in it. His time in the kitchen has taken him from New Jersey to Rhode Island, Washington DC, San Francisco and Minnesota. As a chef, James has worked alongside industry-leading chefs such as Michael Mina and Gavin Kaysen, giving him a profound understanding of restaurant operations. The inspiration for opsi came early in James' career after he took over as chef de cuisine in a restaurant that was in the midst of change and facing issues with internal communication. QUOTES “(Being a restaurateur) is a wild and challenging business. From any angle, as an operator it's even more challenging because you've got 50+ people banking on you.” (James) “I love the stories behind entrepreneurial ideas because they're usually very simple, very true and very authentic and that's what makes them wonderful.” (Michael) “Technology was a space for me where we could develop a solution where we could keep all the information in there, keep the team on the same page and marching to the same sheet of music and moving in the same direction.” (James) “(opsi) made it easier for us to focus on the larger goal, which was servicing the guest and putting out a really high quality product.” (James) “In any kind of creative business, there's organized chaos and artistry but I agree that people need and love process. A little organization isn't a bad thing.” (Michael) “My belief is that anyone – from a food truck to a three-star Michelin restaurant – can utilize opsi.” (James) TRANSCRIPT 00:01.48 vigorbranding Hello everyone today I am joined by someone who knows a lot about how to run an a fishing kitchen his name is chef James Pasa Faro James how you doing say hello and give us a little bit of your backstory. 00:17.65 James Hi thanks for having me. Um, yeah, my background I started in the cooking culinary world when I was really young something I really wanted to do from a young age bounced around a bunch ended up in Minnesota. I work for some really great chefs like Gavin Casean and Michael Mina and um here I am now working in technology which I never thought I probably have to say out loud. 00:42.10 vigorbranding That's awesome. We're gonna talk about opsy here in a little bit but where did the whole love of cooking come from like where did it start I mean how did you? How did you happen upon it. 00:51.22 James Yeah, um, you know a lot of the times I think generally this story kind of goes for people. It's like you know they're cooking in a kitchen if they're grandmother or mother some some family member or it's a family-owned operator. My parents. Ah, my mom was in sales for telecoms so she worked for att my father was in floing so he worked worked in union in New York and then he owned a business in New Jersey where we grew up and he just had friends that were in hospitality so they would always throw a a game dinner every year at a restaurant called perona farms and it was run by 3 brothers and. 01:09.94 vigorbranding And. 01:25.26 James They're they've been in business for over 100 years now and they're like in their sixth generation of family running it. But at the time um Kirk was the chef and he was kind of running this program where he could. Ah, bring in local hunters and fishers and cook a dinner each year and kind of run it for friends and family and kind of started blossoming from the late 80 s to early 90 s where he actually um, he launched a really successful smoke salmon business and he started sign. Ah the likes like Danielle on Louis Palydan um wolfgang puck 01:54.87 vigorbranding Um, wow. 01:55.80 James Kind of all over the country and then he started bringing these really large name chefs to this game dinner every year. So when I was like ten or eleven it was every Tuesday of every year for first Tuesday every year they would close the restaurant prep for the weekend weeding up to that Tuesday and then these chefs would come off from all over the country and at the time I had. You know and no idea it was like mingai and Robert Irvine and Danielle Balloud and all these people um, but what really drew me to it was just it was seemed like friends having fun together and it was the energy of the space and the camaraderie and the food was obviously a plus on top of it. But it wasn't ever that. Ah. That magic moment of like something hitting the pan or me tasting something. It was more about being in an environment being around people. Um, and I think really just like the culture and the energy that was built around it at the time was what really drew me in. 02:42.85 vigorbranding It's fantastic and the game dinner sounds awesome. Yeah, you have to at the end here if you have ah a recipe for Elk I Need I mean I I always have a freezer full of Elk I'm a diehard hunter and you know there's nothing better than having a great meal with friends around something you know that you've actually worked really hard for so. 03:00.94 vigorbranding Ah's it's because it's not easy to cook game I mean it's not I mean people ruin it a lot so that's fantastic. Um, so you work in Minneapolis San Francisco Boston um, did you ever have a desire to do your own restaurant. 03:01.38 James No, it's not. 03:15.61 James Um I did I mean it's obviously still there right? Ah, you know you travel different paths and it's something I definitely want to do at some point I hope to pick it up in the future. Um, but it's ah as you know and people you talked to.. It's a wildly challenging business. Ah, from any angle of it. But as an operator. It's you know ever more challenging because you're looking at 50 plus people that are banking on you. 03:39.33 vigorbranding Yeah, and no question Plus well and be an entrepreneur though. But you're now so you jumped into the tech. So that's so much easier than running a restaurant right? Ah yeah. 03:46.48 James Um, bit different ah different skill set different different patients level. 03:52.50 vigorbranding So how talk a little bit about ah opsy I Mean you've said in the past the idea of opsy started with a simple concept right? You know how to get rid of the paper clutter. You want to talk a little bit about that and you know the brain child behind it I Love entrepreneurial I mean I I consider myself one and I love the stories behind them because they're usually very. 03:59.87 James Yeah. 04:07.95 vigorbranding Simple. They're usually very true. They're very authentic and that's what makes them kind of wonderful. 04:13.31 James yeah with opsy um yeah I was about 26 in San Francisco I was working for Michael at the time. Um I just took over as chef de cuisine for a restaurant called r and 74 that was in the fiai. Um, and it was this really beautiful french. Burgundy restaurant built on a great wine program and I was drowning I um, you know took my first step into the really deep end. They trusted me with a lot of so lot of things inside the restaurant and what I really wanted was just something that I didn't have to chase around paper. Um I didn't have to. Print all this stuff off overcommunic communicate fill the binders up and I kind of went on this search for something that I thought should have been out there at the time we all had iphones and we all still have iphones and Android devices and there was these like little computers in our hands every day that I just assumed there had to even been something right? and when I went out and looked it. Didn't really satisfy the need. So I kind of went down this path with my friend and we started building. Yeah a dodpercent. 05:15.12 vigorbranding That's awesome. Necessity is the mother of invention right? So so oil stained prepless and recipes you want talk a little bit about that. 05:28.31 James Yeah, it was um yeah we were. We were going through this large change at the restaurant I I came in as an executive soou chef and then when ah the chef Mike Graffiti left I took over as a Cdc for him. Um, it was you know it was very disjointed in communication. It was kind of hurting the team because it was more of a a survived less thrive situation on a day-to-day basis. Um, and we really were very leaning forward into systems and system orientation for communication and kind of removing a lot of this gray area which a lot of restaurants are gray generally. Ah, removing a lot of the gray in this human element of just like collecting the physicals and having to put them on stations and keep them in places because you know they get oil spilled on them and you have to rewrite them or print them out again. Um, but always having a backup somewhere and technology for me was that solution to kind of develop a space where we could keep all the information in there. Keep the team all on the same page marching in and singing off the same sheet of music and moving in the same direction so that every single day when they came in they knew the goal. They knew what their goals were and what they were driving towards and then once you kind of for us when you got rid of a lot of minutiae of like where is it who wrote this who did that who did this where as a recipe. Um, it made it easier for us to focus on the larger goal which was servicing the guest and like putting out really high quality product opposed to just making it through the day because the system was broken. 06:52.28 vigorbranding Yeah I mean in any kind of a creative business which obviously being a chef is super creative in a kitchen I mean there's that organized Chaos. There's that artistry. But I think I do agree I think that people need and love process I just spent unfortunately way too much time talking about that as far as our business you know. Keeping the time and keeping things organized so that they they are. They're able to thrive right? A little organization certainly isn't ah isn't a bad thing. Um, but talk about your partner and and how your partner got into it in the business and how it got started and all that. 07:10.50 James Yeah. 07:21.67 James Yeah Matt is wildly talented. Definitely completely different skillset than I have he spent a lot of his early career in videography design. He's done all the architecture from the backend working with our cto justin writing all the code. Um, and he's done all the uiux experience for opsy which I think is really powerful because the the whole idea is that when I was conceptualizing the idea we were running into these walls of just really large enterprise systems that just weren't resonating with what I needed every single day and we needed to make sure that the tool we designed and built had to be very streamlined trim light feeling. Not so dense and cumbersome. So Matt is amazingly talented. really really smart he's taken an incredible approach from just a design perspective and user interface perspective I think he's he's setting us up for a ton of success because it's it should be something that you could easily pick up understand get into get out of and get back to work. 08:19.89 vigorbranding Fantastic and opsy recently partnered with ah Gavin Caseson is that correct notable chef ah James Blair word winner. 08:26.88 James Yeah, yeah, Gavin has um, yeah, been a ah longtime mentor friend boss lots of different capacities advisor investor. Um, but ah when I first met Gavin I came out to Minneapolis to dodge at belcour and spoon. Um, and it's kind of in between what I was going to do next and we're winding down in San Francisco and he offered me a job and I you know, kind of just expressed the idea that you know if we continue down this path talking about opportunities that I wanted to make sure you understood there was things that I was working on and that I would need this duality of support as I make me this next. Step forward. Even though I didn't take the job at the time because it wasn't the the chef role that was open. He immediately gravitated towards us and he became our first adviser very early on probably going to back six years now and then when the opportunity came up to move to a swoon and stable. We started piloting the actual project inside the restaurant. So it was um. 09:22.95 James Blessing in a curse right? You're kind of drinking from a fire hose at that point when it comes to feedback when you're given it to your team. 09:27.13 vigorbranding Absolutely so I mean you know obviously organization in any business is super important and this is an opportunity for you I guess to sell your dream or your vision here. What types of restaurants need your tool the most like who do you see as your primary customer who's who's the most suited to. To to to be involved in the Opsy platform. 09:49.49 James Yeah, we get this question a lot. Um, generally my belief system is that anyone whether it's a food truck to a threet star Missioncheland restaurant could utilize opsy multiunits single concept multi unit multiconcept the. At the end of the day. There's a there's a very large event diagram of functionality that all is true within restaurants right? You are producing food. You're managing people. You're pretty prepless like all these things are just common truths throughout the whole industry. So. We started in a place of like a spoon and stable upscale casual. This is just based on my background and Kavin's background and we built it for the 4 walls of that restaurant and it works extremely well and as we continue developing. We're focused more on both going downstream to more fine dining restaurants but also on the opposite side of that stream. Going into more casual qsr virtual brands to make sure that you know the tool still fits. We don't we don't develop in any specific way that it's like okay this really only works for Thomas Keller or Danielle or Gavin this doesn't just work for you know the Mcdonald's or the larger change or the the quick growing franchises. It's um. 10:50.64 vigorbranding Um. 10:57.25 James We take a really honest approach and when we when we work with a company whether it's your business or a multiple tuda businesses that that are our partners Now we yeah we have lots of conversation with how we can be become better. 11:07.82 vigorbranding It's awesome. It's awesome. Well I know in this industry I mean I I started my illustrious career in a restaurant like most well I shouldn't say most everybody did but I was a dishwasher and but I was very fortunate actually because I worked with ah a gentleman who was. Pretty ah, well known it was in Hershey Pennsylvania and he was a chef and he had his own place and it was sort of his last sort of ah chapter he wanted to just do his thing his way and talk about the oiltained recipes I mean this guy was crazy. Um, gourmet magazine was begging him for his. Ah. 11:22.73 James Okay, you know. 11:39.23 vigorbranding Coconut Cream Emmaellatta recipe. It literally died with Him. He would not let win the building when he made it and I mean there's a lot of that old school sort of philosophy and like artistry I mean how how how is this help with that I mean are you finding resistance from those old school guys or is everyone really realizing hey look. We've got to. We've got to have this product ah to help streamline things. 11:59.48 James You know when we first started it was a matter of like trying to delutter and reorganize and kind of update because there's been very little focus on the back of the restaurant when it comes to technology tons on the front. But you know as time goes on I think especially with covid covid has kind of changed the way people think about. 12:13.29 vigorbranding Um. 12:17.82 James But staffing and all the hardship that everyone is going through from finding staff now that people want tools that help them do more with a little bit of less systems ultimately scaffold that structure and allow people to do those things because there's you know a rubric to work within um and now we are starting to see it's less of we're not here to convince people. Of what they should be doing I'm not going to be a ah person trying to give in someone how to change the way they run their business. It's up to them to make that decision. But when we find the people that are coming to us for this Problem. It's it's something that is it clicks like they see it immediately. They understand they need to solve the problem and you see it on both ends like older chefs will have to eventually come to this idea because. 12:56.62 vigorbranding Who. 12:56.73 James They're hiring younger and younger cooks and servers and people every single day that the tool has to meet them at their staffing where they are today and yeah when I'm not very old but I'm not young anymore. Um. 13:09.68 vigorbranding Jesus. 13:10.85 James When I started. It was like take the muskin out and listen to me talk and write it down and if you don't write it down. You don't know what's going on and now it's like if I had to give a binder of paper to an 18 year old kid coming off the street to be a prep cook like he's going to look at me cross-eyed. So we're we're hoping to help meet these people this workforce this new generation of cooks and chefs. Where they are and they're far more technically inclined than any generation before they they grew up with it in their hands. Their whole lives. 13:36.72 vigorbranding It's it's wonderful I mean it's ah as I was saying earlier necessities of other invention. It makes total sense. It's a simple concept but it's a great concept and something it's it's absolutely needed I mean where do you see yourselves going in the next day two three years I mean what's what's your vision for the business. 13:48.56 James We Want to you know obviously bridge a lot of these gaps we want to again meet the people where they are. We want to help bring a little more insight to the day-to-day operators and start to segment out a piece of business that is not so financially high minded. Financial high-mounded tools are great for the controllers cfos accountants of the world but it doesn't really help the operators that are running the restaurant a day-to-day basis scheduling cooking things like that. So we're hoping to be a distillation of information at some point it sit in between those tools. Um, and then you know we're. people that believe we need to stay focused on what we're great at um and we've built a really great tool that I believe works well and we're going to continue embellishing on it and progressing and changing and ideaating on the tool and making it better and a lot of my focus now going forward is finding strong partners that are also likeminded that are. Best in class technologies that we can work with and we actually you know in the next couple weeks and months we're going to have a few announcements coming out about some of our partners that we're working with and people that I I put high value on and what they're doing and believe they are best in class. 14:53.59 vigorbranding It's awesome. Yeah I mean it's It's ah it's remarkable and it's ah it's great I mean and I think you have the the absolute right perspective on growing a business you got to stay focused and and take it to the people that need it and and I love it I Love it I'm looking forward to seeing what what the future holds. 15:04.19 James And. 15:08.61 vigorbranding Um, so I have to ask these are we do every year we do food and beverage Trends and restaurant trends and technology obviously is just always there. Always there. In fact, it's hard to find things that aren't tied to technology for a trend. 15:14.50 James Food. 15:21.33 vigorbranding Um, we we read a lot and heard a lot about robots and Kitchens and all that I mean what do you? What's your honest opinion about Robot servers and that kind of a thing. 15:30.32 James Um, you know they have their place I've been I've been to the sushi train places where the the robot brings you your drink and like drives cocktails around for sure. It'll always exist the the robot cooks like the sweet greens of the world I Think there's definitely a place for it. There's you know. 15:33.98 vigorbranding You. 15:47.82 James Very fast casual grab and go type situations that definitely serve that purpose. It will fill a gap for sure. Um, for like everything in the middle market I even think like all the way down to fast casual. Yeah I think technology is going to continue growing in a way that helps bolster the human element because. For me again going all the way back to being eleven ten twelve the reason I came into restaurants is people when you go to a restaurant and you sit down and you pay money you you get a server that is talking to you get a cook that is cooking the food. Yeah um. You ideally have a consistent experience but it's always never going to be the same It's always going to hopeful build and build and build for you and if you start removing that? yeah humanity out of the experience. Um, and I think all the way down to you know, fast food service elements. There's. Still pieces of it that the humans are going to be so I believe like technology itself. Everyone's going to want to talk about Ai replacement of people robots I mean it's just not realistic. It makes sense. So I think we'll always go down that path in certain segments. But I think where where technology really needs to go and should go is. 16:48.32 vigorbranding Um, the hunt. 16:59.62 James How do you better? The human experience while they're working and how does that bolster of the human experience while their employees of that space bolster The human experience as a guest and how do you engage with them differently and continue driving that experience and bringing them back. Whether you're picking up a burger. You're sitting down and spending thousands or hundreds of dollars on a meal. 17:17.30 vigorbranding Yeah, and I mean I love that answer and and I mean the robots are kind of kitchen kind of cool. Whatever's neat sort of trendy maybe but I love the idea your technology is one that that allows humans to do a more efficient job. Hopefully it'll drive more. 17:31.76 James Do. 17:34.74 vigorbranding Happiness culture better experience for the guest and I think at the end of the day you're right? That's what we all go out for right? We want that human experience. We want to. We want to be with friends or ah, you know business associates and just have a great time and it's That's the overall interaction. It's The. Ah, the servers. It's everybody that's involved that that makes it fantastic and makes it it. It makes an experience right? So I think ah I agree with you I Love the human side of things versus ah maybe what were the robotic side. Um, yeah, That's right, That's right. 18:00.81 James I Mean if we go all the way to robots you're gonna It's not go be hospital tow anymore. It's gonna be something completely different. 18:09.51 vigorbranding That's right, is there anything else, you'd like to tell us about opsy I mean anything else about your business the future What you see for technology. Ah any ancillary products anything like that that you want to talk about. 18:21.50 James No, we're you know we're hoping to push out a bunch of updates here. It's um, you know the the technology piece is a process that ah, that's new to me because it's it's not so physical. It's not tangible. It's more of a conversation then there's there's other people that are smarter and better than me ah doing the work and. I kind of I kind of wait for the results to test and play with um, not at the moment we're we're really just excited about some of the partnerships we're going to announce and also um, yeah, we we love being substantially footed inside the hospitality you know with myself my background Gavin we have a couple other. 18:45.57 vigorbranding Um. 18:55.68 James Chef advisor investors that we're going to kind of bring to the forefront and it's it's going to be our prime focus of having these types of conversations and create dialogues with our chef partners to make sure that we are developing the tool in a way that is applicable to their day-to-day life not from a perspective of James has been removed from the kitchen for a year and a half and 19:14.21 vigorbranding Um, yeah, you're always in Beta right? I mean you're always in Beta and it's It's a tough thing I'll see for me personally I had to learn like with the the dev work that we do and things like that it is that. 19:14.30 James He still believes. He knows what he's doing because he hasn't work in the kitchen anymore. Um, it's it really needs to be rubber meets the road type development. Yeah. 19:30.26 vigorbranding You know I'm used to in life start and stop like here. We make this and it's finished but this when it comes to software and anything development. You're always in beta so um, all right? Why? Yeah, absolutely so I got one last question all right if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat and where and why. 19:31.73 James Who. 19:38.71 James That's constant churn. 19:49.95 James Um, you know I hate to bring it all the way back to the beginning of the conversation. But um I I spent a lot of time in the kitchen while early days in the kitchen with my father as he like spent time around his friends. Um, and one of the first things I can vividly remember not making but help put together was a venison carpacco dish um with with ming sigh and it was like toasted sesames hot sesame oil slice Ven Venison Tenderor wine and like a bitter green salad and. 20:13.00 vigorbranding Um, this. 20:23.98 James Being an 11 year old kid I've never had anything like that or you're close to raw food and I the the idea is so visceral my mind I think from just the weekend leading up to it and being around my father and being around all these types of people if I had to have 1 final bite. In my life. It would be going back to that moment in time and um I think that is like the the white switch that flipped in my mind to say like you know food is what I want to do because I don't have to do social studies anymore if I do it? Yeah, we hunted fish still all the way up growing up. 20:55.45 vigorbranding Ah, that's that's fantastic. So was your father also a hunter then. 21:02.50 James Ah, mostly like upline foul stuff. Yeah. 21:02.72 vigorbranding That's awesome. Yeah, very cool, very cool. Yeah I share those passions big time. Um, what's your favorite game meat. Would it be that or is there ah venison Ah birds I mean. 21:15.12 James Um I love duck obviously um, we have amazing duck producers out here and then pheasant because that again going back to the experience like the first time I learned how to break down a full bird was um. 21:18.76 vigorbranding Who. 21:32.65 James Jalo we poed on and it was right a year or two before he passed away but it was like just learning experience and it's not going from like cleaned animal from a bag to the table breaking it down. It was like feathers and heads and wings and like. 21:48.41 vigorbranding Um. 21:49.14 James Endto-end learning how to do it. It was a really cool experience. It's something that really super value because it's applied everywhere right? Ducks Pheasants Chickens Geese All kind of the same. 22:00.67 vigorbranding That's awesome I mean like I can totally relate I mean I've done all that but never not nearly as sophisticated as you have I can guarantee you that but I mean the whole thing from the you know field to to to table. 22:10.26 James And. 22:12.30 vigorbranding And ah and I'll say this the fun and the camaraderie that comes around with it stories. It's just ah I mean it's just something I crave. In fact, if you're anywhere near my cabin on any given weekend. There's bourbon being poured and Elk burgers or ah backstraps being being provided I. 22:16.66 James Yeah. 22:30.10 James Ah, so. 22:30.80 vigorbranding I Cook all the time up there for everybody and people just stop by. They see my lights on the not even invited people will stop in because they know I'll probably be making Elk or you know pouring a good wine or bourbon and it's It's always a nice time. So I totally respect that. Absolutely absolutely. 22:41.15 James And well we'll have to talk offline about that one then. 22:47.75 vigorbranding I listen it James it was fantastic I really enjoyed talking to you I appreciate your time anything else, you'd like to leave us with. 22:53.39 James Now. Thank you I Appreciate this love to stay in touch and just appreciate giving us a platform to talk about what we're doing and we're excited to keep on going forward with everybody. 23:02.12 vigorbranding Absolutely hey and best of luck to you I Love what you're doing and I love the attitude behind it. It's excellent, well done. Thanks. 23:07.31 James Thank you appreciate it.

Home Run Inn is a family owned & operated establishment with nine restaurants throughout the Chicago area. They've been making pizza since 1947 and began creating and selling frozen pizzas for grocery store distribution nationwide in the 1960s. Dan is the 4th generation leader of Home Run Inn Pizza. He started in the family business at the age of 13 as a busboy. Home Run Inn's signature square-sliced pizzas originated in the 1940s when the tavern would slice the pizza into small sample-sized pieces to entice customers. The restaurant's frozen pizza was born after a regular customer used to request par-baked pizzas to take to his summer home in Wisconsin. Home Run Inn Pizza has a synergistic relationship between the restaurant brand and the frozen brand and doesn't view the relationship as cannibalistic when it comes to sales for either brand. QUOTES “Everyone who has a restaurant wants to get into CPG. They want to put it in grocery stories. They think it's easy to do CPG.” (Michael) “Our first distributor was our bartender. He would take pizzas after work, walk them down to the corner grocery store and pick up the cash the next day.” (Dan) “Our frozen pizza production facilities model and mirror what we did in the restaurants. My uncle would say, ‘The reason we make it like that is because that's the only way I know how.'” (Dan) “Pizza is like sex. It's all good, but some is better than others.” (Michael) “The (Home Run Inn Pizza) restaurants drive brand awareness on the marketing side for our frozen pizza.” (Dan) “A brand is a promise. Many times, an agency is hired to create that story or build that authenticity. What's beautiful about what Home Run Inn Pizza has, is that (story) is already baked in.” (Michael) TRANSCRIPT 00:00.22 vigorbranding And with some great guests and so I thought well we should keep it going. It's good for social media. It's good for you know it's good. So I mean you know I'll be honest've I'm only done a few of these but it's been fun and you know I don't know it's just ah, you know the guys do a great job. So it turns out all right? yeah. 00:06.19 Dan Costello Um, yeah. 00:16.98 Dan Costello Um, cool, Awesome. Look forward to it. Don't give hi. 00:19.29 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah, yeah, know yeah this will be this will be a lap for you I mean you know it's just just like your story and I mean it sincerely I mean great story, great family. Great product. It's just you know it's just it's just super cool. We got a guy here working the production Robert who you're already his fan. He's a huge fan of home run his friends. 00:28.80 Dan Costello Gun. 00:36.54 vigorbranding Took him there and he you know is one of his best buddies is out there archer ra and thirty first street with archer a thirty first yeah Yeah, so yeah, yeah, so yeah, yeah, heyan on one thing we're you know can keep casual and loose. We're already kind of rolling here. Um, just 1 thing he got to do once we kind of finish up the convo. 00:42.27 Dan Costello Ah, okay, nice Robert very good. 00:55.40 vigorbranding We just gotta have you hang on the line thus til your tilll your file kind of uplis what locally so we' probably just got hang out for extra 10 minutes when we're done reporting just to make yeah just to make sure everything you know gets off load quickly and everything everything like that. Okay, we're wrong. So guy you're ready cool hi. 01:02.40 Dan Costello At the end of it. Yes, yes. 01:12.79 Dan Costello Um, new promise. 01:14.91 vigorbranding Well again, this will be fun casual tell stories. Enjoy it. It's all good. So I'm I'm ready when if Dan's ready if you're ready Robert yeah, we're good to go best all right. all right 01:24.43 Dan Costello Hi whenever you're ready I'm good Mike. 01:31.36 vigorbranding Hello everyone I am joined today by my good friend and our guest Dan Costello Dan is the Ceo of home run in pizza in the Chicago area now home run in pizza says a lot right there Dan You want to say hello and give us a little backstory. 01:46.66 Dan Costello Hi guys mike good to hear from me again. Yeah so home run in is a family owned pizza establishment in the Chicago area. We have 9 local restaurants including one that is a partnership in midway airport. We've been in business since nineteen business started in 1927 and pizza business started 1947 and we also along with the restaurants we have frozen pizzas. Ah, in across the country. So we're nationwide with various retailers like Albertson Safeway and they were regional with other retailers like Walmart and um and Kroger and then you know find ourselves in the southeast southwest and covering coast to coast. So. That's the core of what we do. 02:33.18 vigorbranding Yeah, it's it's ah it's it's an amazing story and so it's super near and dear to me, not not only your friend but with Vigor we're we're obviously really passionate about restaurants and restaurant brands. But. Quench another company we own and have started. It's all cpg so you cover both worlds. So this is really super intriguing and as I said near and dear to my heart. But let's talk about how did you get started? Yeah, ah, you're a bus boy at age 13 you would talk a little bit about the the early days of of Dan's career 03:00.41 Dan Costello Sure, um, so yeah, so I think I said a fourth generation. So it's family business so we grew up. We grew up in it. We were encouraged especially very early to come into the business. So I you know I started when I when I was 13 I started. As a bus boy at our original restaurant on thirty first street on the on the southwest side of Chicago there store still there. It's doing really well so grew up on the restaurant side of the business. So that's back in the oh there's probably back around 1984 1985 and my uncle who unfortunately no longer is with us. That's when he really started making a big push to try to take our restaurant product into the frozen ah retail section of the grocery stores. So. He was kind of the driving force behind that 1987 he built our first factory which is behind that original restaurant. Still there today. We still use it. We have a main facility now out in the suburbs of Chicago and Woodridge Illinois but that's ah you know that was kind of the the advent of the frozen pizza goes back. You know quite, it's grounded in the roots of our restaurants you know making par big pizzas for people cooking them halfway people taking them home. So my uncle is just kind of like we got to figure out how to how to do this on ah on a grocery type scale. 04:26.53 vigorbranding Very cool. So okay, it says on here. You're also sausage grinder now some would consider me a sausage grinder my role now but you can talk a little bit about that you started as a kid. You're a sausage grinder this is the sausage thing um from what I understand pepperoni is the number 1 topping in the United States except for. 04:32.37 Dan Costello That's a question. 04:43.31 vigorbranding In Chicago. 04:44.18 Dan Costello Chicago Midwest maybe Milwaukee too I'd have to check with the people there but we know in Chicago the number one pizza dock and sausage. It's it's ah yeah, it dates back I mean it's his historical I mean we just got a lot of ah eastern european that settled here they they went with sausage. So um. 04:48.88 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah. 05:01.70 Dan Costello Yeah I mean we did everything from Scratch. We'd make our dough. You know we blended our sauce and we would one of the jobs I had as a teenager which was Definite. Weve had a butcher shop I worked in the butcher Shop. We'd get In. We'd get in pork and we'd have to take the bones out So and then we'd we. We'd cut it and then we'd. Grind it. So I Guess yeah, it's sausage Grinder. You know that was that was a job in the past. 05:25.88 vigorbranding So I love some of the the history of it I mean it was started in the restaurant I mean I think you told me the story and I've I've noticed it before I knew you would you know go round pizzas but somehow you guys decide to cut them up in little squares. Why why did you do that. 05:42.30 Dan Costello Yeah, so the history on that is you know so my grandfather got out of the war. Um, so nineteen circuit 1945 right and he gets comes back and he's looking for a job and he was you know he's a mechanic by trade. 05:59.10 Dan Costello But he couldn't find he couldn't get a job so he went to work from my motherin-law who owned a bar called the home run in and so he's working at the bar for you know a couple years and he had he he had come. Ah, you know he's from italy from bar italy so he has you know a version of pizza my grandmother encourages him to. Show it to my great grandmother so they start making it in the restaurant and giving it away to get people to come in to drink and um so what they did is they cut it into small tiny squares. That's why Chicago tavern pizzas is cut in squares this listen. You know from our perspective this is how it started for us because they needed it to fit on a cocktail napping. They didn't have plates. They didn't have China they they weren't a restaurant. They were a bar they were just trying to so they're just trying to get people to yeah have a little snack by another beer so that is why our pizzas are cut into. Tiny squares and a lot of the pizzas in Chicago because that's how it was introduced. It was introduced as this we're one of the first pizzas in Chicago we started in 1947 we believe that you know like there might have been another 1 or 2 competitors starting in 44 45 but that's how it came to be for us cocktail mac and head fit. Had to give it away. 07:16.19 vigorbranding That's fantastic. Can you tell tell me the story because again, it's such a cool history. So your Uncle's in the pizza shop talk about how you got into the cpg site the frozen pizza I mean that's like everyone's dream whoever makes or has a restaurant. Ah you know they want to do a dressing. They want to put it in the grocery stores everybody thinks it's. Easy to jump to cpg? How did it all start with you. 07:36.70 Dan Costello So I mean if you really go all the way back. It probably goes the story goes back to the 50 s for us where a customer comes into the restaurant. Um, so my uncle's young at this point and he's just probably hanging out and. The the gentleman comes in and he he wants a pizza and he wants it to bake bake it halfway he tells my grandfather so we call that par bake today you guys just like bake it halfway my grandfather was he said why? Why do you Why don't you want this cooked all way and the guys this was our first frozen customer he goes I want I take it home. I'm going to put it in my freezer my icebox right? and he goes I spend the summers up in Wisconsin so he goes I want you to make me a dozen so I have them for the summer up in Wisconsin and he goes and so our original frozen pizza was ten inches because a ten inch pizza would fit in an icebox because it wasn't freezers back then. So people had ice boxes so that I think my uncle saw that so then the sixty s come around and you know actually we had ah bartenders like hey why don't we make more of these and I'll on my way home I'll stop at the corner grocery store I'll drop them off. And then I'll see how many they sell and on my way back to work the next day I'll pick up the cash and how many they sold and I'll bring it back so that's even our first distributor was our bartender he would take the pizzas back to work. He'd walk him down of the corner grocery store pick him but pick up the cash the next day bring him back. 08:58.73 Dan Costello So my uncle's growing up in the 50 s and sixty s watching this and and restaurant expansion happens in the seventy s he's working on that and he he just has this just this vision that hey there's probably a better way to make these pizzas freeze them. And get him into the local grocery store so he really started investigating that probably in the 70 s and then in the eighty s he starts talking to the local groceries here which back then it was Dominic's and jewel jewels still here. Dominics is no longer here. Um, but those were the 2 big grocery brands. 09:26.98 vigorbranding Straight. 09:34.97 Dan Costello And he starts he starts selling them and he's then starts figuring out how to make it and the only way he could he knew how to make it was to make it like we made in the restaurant which was to make it in this parb bake format. So he'd make them in the restaurant. He'd put them in the oven. He'd parb bake him he'd throw them in the freezer. He'd wrap him and then he'd start selling in the grocery store. But year over year he just tried to figure out how do I do this better How do I get automation in this. How do he so he had to learn this whole thing. So our our frozen pizza production facilities really model and mirror what we did in the restaurants all these years and my uncle would tell you today if he was still with us. He said the reason we make it like that is because that's the only way I knew how to do it. So yeah. 10:13.92 vigorbranding That's awesome. Yeah, and I was fortunate I was actually with you on a tour you gave us a tour and I was able to try it right there par baked and it was delicious then we actually compared went to the restaurant and compared a frozen to the restaurant pizza and I I say this because it's True. Um. Was almost as good and I mean almost as good which I think is says ah a lot. Everyone loves Pizza. You know I've got this terrible saying that that pizza's like sex. It's all good somes better than others right? So I Just think ah ah that that I was amazed how close and how good the frozen pie was and I mean I just was it was it was tremendous. 10:41.78 Dan Costello So let. 10:48.80 Dan Costello And the process real similar so he I give me like he had a very he had a very clear vision on how he wanted to do this and yeah, he spent a lot of years Bc you know equipment had to be developed over you know back in the 70 s and eighty s in order to do this and he was. 10:51.00 vigorbranding Um. 11:05.42 Dan Costello He was integral in working with people and saying this is what I needed to do? How can we do this and you know got us to where we are today. So it it positioned us really well and you know so we have a healthy restaurant brand and now we have a healthy Cpg brand and you know the restaurants really drive that brand awareness in the marketing side for the frozen pizza. 11:11.28 vigorbranding Meet. 11:24.17 Dan Costello That's what why? that's what makes us a little different than a lot of our competitors you know majority. You look at the competitors and in the freezer case. There's really only 1 or 2 that have restaurant background and roots of California pizza kitchens one and that's about it. You know you can find a couple regionals here and there. But. 11:36.74 vigorbranding In this. 11:41.72 Dan Costello There's not a lot of people who do both. 11:43.83 vigorbranding Right? And with all due respect to California Pizza shouldn't really come from California right? It just doesn't feel right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn't feel right? Um, but I mean how but so talk about the the relationship between the restaurant and the frozen product. The cpg product. 11:46.28 Dan Costello I That now you yeah have me way. Yeah will be kind. We'll be kind right? so. 12:02.00 vigorbranding Ah, one drives the other the other drives the other I mean you know it's ah it's ah it's a neat thing because a lot of people have one and they want the other and somehow it's just kind of organically happened with you. 12:10.10 Dan Costello Yeah I mean again, it's it's the way that the business grew I mean we call it our flywheel now you know, really these restaurants you know we started in 1947 you know in today we feed we feed over two and a half million people a year out of our restaurants. 12:25.68 vigorbranding Well. 12:27.81 Dan Costello So You know for us, it's It's if if the most you know, Um, if the deepest level of connection with somebody is like is that type of taste experience. It's a really hard. It's a really difficult marketing um to to duplicate you know. With just pure dollars and say hey try Myself. We're actually feeding like our marketing is feeding people and having them talk about the product and enjoy the product and having create these great experiences at our restaurants which is why we do a lot of a why the restaurants allow us to be parts of the community. You know you know once you're in a restaurant. Yeah we can. We can. 12:47.40 vigorbranding No. 13:03.63 Dan Costello Work with your local lily we can talk to you you know with your school. We can. We can be part of the community which then gets people to understand our brand nor our brand trust our brand and then that trust we we know translates to when they're walking down the frozen ile grocery store. So the synergy there. A lot of people ask us like well doesn't the restaurants hurt the frozen with the frozen hurt the restaurants but we don't see it like that at all, we see it very very synergistically and I you know thankful that our our product translated from a restaurant into a cpg brand. Um. It's a hard thing to do and I know like you said like I've learned from you a lot of people. This is what everybody wants, but it's not an easy trick right? It's very difficult to pull off so I'm sure timing had some of 2 for us I mean we each Joe was an early adopter and moved down this early in the in the career and the life the life cycle of homer in. 13:46.62 vigorbranding So I. 14:00.81 Dan Costello So I'm sure that helped I think the fact that it's a good product. It's a really good product helps I think that we're dedicated and our teammates are dedicated to making it the way we do and to be parts of the community that helps so it's all these pieces have to come Together. You know so you can gain trust with the customer so that they'll they'll continue to invest in you. And continue to purchase that product So That's where it's um, that's how I see him working you know the the parts of our business they're they're complimentary and they both depend on each other. 14:23.73 vigorbranding Little. 14:29.68 vigorbranding Yeah, it's It's very I think it's a very pragmatic way to go about I think it's smart it just they just should feed literally no pun intended off of each other because they're both great brands and the the restaurant might have more history but because the history it allows that. That flywheel if you will to to capture the cpg side and again, yeah, then the product's great so you get the product in people's mouths and the rest is is History. You talk a lot about your uncle and obviously 4 generations of family owned and operated how important is family owned and operated for the brand. 15:06.39 Dan Costello I think it's I mean it's really important I mean we're very proud of it. Um I know the the my brother and my cousins that I work with there's a lot of pride I mean we grew up in it. So it means a lot to us. You know when we don't. Do a good job and we hear from our customers take it very seriously. Yeah I think you can you don't have to own something to you know to care for it that way. But I think it certainly doesn't hurt. You know that we're very invested in it. So it's important to what we do who we are. It's important to our teammates I think our teammates enjoy and like knowing that we're here and that we're involved that we're not absent owners I think that's a really important cultural aspect of a family business if you can be ah, a present owner. Think that makes that's meaningful to the people that are helping you build the thing you know we can't do this without our teammates and we got over 500 and um I kind of view it for us is that we owe it to them to be present and in the trenches with them as we can as we do this every day. 16:14.36 vigorbranding Very cool I mean you know people always say when you own restaurants and restaurants are volaging in my family and it's like you've got to be there right? And then you know couple that with a brand you know when I put my I'll say my marketing hat on a brand is a promise right. And you know, many times an's hired to create that story or try and build that authenticity and what's beautiful about what you have is. It's already baked in I mean again, just right there family owned and operated everyone Cares. It started with the restaurants. There's a story a history a reason for being. And then it just kind of goes from there. It's just so really a natural ah concept and it's It's just it's just Wonderful. We talk a lot you know about controlled expansion for any brand. Um, what are some of the mistakes that you've seen pizza franchises or chains making they're popping up everywhere. Um, when expanding it to say new markets Or. Maybe a new way of doing the same thing or new Concepts and and maybe hit a little bit about what what are your thoughts on expansion I Mean do you have anything that you're looking forward to in the future. Is there anything that you have in back your mind or anything you want to share. 17:18.72 Dan Costello Yeah I mean I think you know we've made plenty of mistakes I mean some of it is. It's you know the the world's changing and how people are using restaurants is changing. So I think you have to be in tune with that like I'm not We're not that interested in open up the 250 see pizzeria anymore like we did back in the 80 s and 90 s right. Have to pay attention to that and sometimes you're a little slow to to identify that trend I mean even though it's been coming for a long time like we're recognizing now for us to grow our restaurants. Um, you know we have to do it differently than what we than where we came from I think you know overall I've always been confused. When I talk to people that are in there the the restaurants side of the business particular and they tell me they're going to a new market and they're gonna open up 50 stores and I'm like that's great, but like like in 2 years or 3 years and like but how do you know? they're gonna work like you know for us, we probably take a much. This might be part of our company culture and history I mean look we've been in business since you know the 1947 started making pizzas and then actually the bar business goes back to 1927 so I just will probably take more of a cautious approach like open up, you know 1 to 3 stores and how they work. 18:19.56 vigorbranding I purpose. 18:32.64 Dan Costello Yeah, how how you doing I Just I've always been fascinated people open up. But again, it's a it's the it's probably most of these are franchise systems are looking old. They have different. They have different desired results than we do and different desired outcomes right? So you know our desired results is when we go to a new market is. 18:38.35 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah. 18:50.88 Dan Costello Is this restaurant going to synergistically support and facilitate growing our frozen Cpg brand and if it doesn't do we need to do it. You know so we have those type of conversations all time because you know the frozen the frozen brand's growing. 18:59.67 vigorbranding Um, right. 19:08.21 Dan Costello And the restaurants we've been a little bit more stable in the last couple of years just trying to get through this pandemic and get through hiring but we're looking at some opportunities where we think we can go to other marketplaces outside of Chicago and do the same thing we did in Chicago by tying our frozen business in our restaurants together. 19:24.87 vigorbranding Love it. 19:27.19 Dan Costello The the biggest kind of the biggest thing we want accomplish is build I Like how you said it earlier a few minutes ago that you know Brand is a promise right? and so that's what we want to do we want to make sure that our brand is building trust with our consumers right? It's a promise to them. So for both the restaurant and the cpg side. So I Think. You know with expansion too like what are you gonna do differently what?? What's the value proposition for people and what value are you going to serve for them and we want to just be in that Position. We're one one of the only pizza brands that we can help you whether you want to come out or you want to stay home or can be there for you right. 19:59.88 vigorbranding And you nailed it to I obviously your goal is not to slap a sign up in every town in America and just ah pump stuff out. It's not a franchise. It's not ah, it's not you know these are company-owned stores for lack of a better word and. 20:03.60 Dan Costello Somebody else doing that. 20:17.95 vigorbranding And I Also think it's really really smart How you look them out as as Marketing. Ah how how they play off each other for the frozen side I think that's ah, a really smart way to go about it. I Love that concept. It just makes to me. It makes all the sense in the world. Um, so okay, I'm going to ask you some a couple questions here and hopefully these these answers don't get you in any trouble. So. There's very very difficult high level pizza questions. Okay pineapple and pizza. Yes, or no all right. 20:36.19 Dan Costello 5 20:43.55 Dan Costello Now Warm pineapple This is gross I'm sorry yeah. 20:49.49 vigorbranding Ah, ah feels feels a little California doesn't it all right dipping pizza and ranch dressing. Yes or no I love it. That's right thoughts on white pizza. Okay. 20:55.21 Dan Costello Now is the cross isn't any good. Yeah, yeah. 21:07.39 vigorbranding Deep dish pizza is that still pizza tough one. 21:13.12 Dan Costello Yeah, sure I think so I'm from Chicago deep dish pizza's pizza. Yeah yeah, yeah, ah, 2 3 times a week 21:13.53 vigorbranding Yeah I was gonna say you could alienate some locals if that one that's a little tough and how often do you eat pizza. Nice and and show he's on pizza you know is that something? Yes, yeah. 21:28.50 Dan Costello Not for me, It's not for me. Yeah, not a lot of people in our market. Do it? Um, but yeah, we we have a little bit of it. But this not much I don't see a lot of it in our stores. 21:39.80 vigorbranding Yeah I think I was like ah more of a big East Coast thing and I felt like it was ah you know, maybe a whole generation ago I remember doing it I remember hearing about it I actually ordered one one time and I love pisa it like 1 of my favorite things in the world was open a box of fresh fresh pie and I did it 1 time and with anov I thought this week exciting. Want to try this. Was god forsaken and I actually like ancho he so I was like no way ever again. Never again. So. 22:00.35 Dan Costello Yeah I just I don't see it a lot I'm not seen it I'm not seeing it come up at that much I mean even when I was you know working in the restaurants every single day small percentage. Yeah. 22:13.43 vigorbranding That's funny all right? So my very last question I'm gonna actually take pizzes off the board here I don't think he should be allowed to say that or answered with that answer. But last question if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat where and why. 22:29.14 Dan Costello Oh man, what would I eat where and why? um, she's I've had that's probably a question I think if you ask me I it probably changes based on my time of year my mood and whatnot. But I think at the end of the day. Unk go with a steak right? You know I'm gonna go with the classic of you know, great steak and steak and fries right? not working I have that I'm not a hundred percent sure we got a lot of choices in Chicago. Um. 22:47.22 vigorbranding This is. 22:54.12 vigorbranding Nice there you go. 23:02.20 vigorbranding Open. 23:02.74 Dan Costello Gibson's comes to mind is one of those a place that just never disappoints. There's this place ah down the city called the vets beef just fantastic. Great owner operator there. So I think those would be a couple things that pop in my head about where I might want to spend a last meal soly I don't have to do that anytime soon. 23:20.49 vigorbranding I Hope not I hope not any last things anything else you want to say anything you want to leave us with. 23:21.36 Dan Costello Night map. Yeah. 23:29.60 Dan Costello Ah, well one and this is fun then really appreciate you having me on it. This is I think for anybody listen this first time ever been on podcast. Hopefully I did. Okay so yeah. 23:35.51 vigorbranding He did. It was fantastic I thought it was great and I I Love you know you one of my favorite people and I always enjoy talking to you So it's a layup right? It's just easy. 23:43.49 Dan Costello Yeah, this was a lot of fun. But yeah I to anybody listen keep going out to eat right? Restaurants and grory stores need you. So yeah, we'd love to keep love to keep serving it. You got Mike. 23:51.48 vigorbranding It's right, very cool. Fantastic Dan. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

Joseph is the former host of Forktales and is currently working as the VP of Digital Experience for 3 Owl. He's also the author of “Stop Blasting My Mama” (a book about effective email marketing) and “The Bullhearted Brand: Building Bullish Restaurant Brands That Charge Ahead of the Herd.” Joseph's book, “Stop Blasting My Mama,” tackles the topic of email marketing and how modern marketing is overrun with overly aggressive terms – like blast and campaign – to describe what should be a friendly and civil interaction with consumers. Consumers today have more power today and can ignore brands – or cancel brands – whenever they want to. Technology is changing the restaurant industry and restaurants need to get onboard with that technological evolution or risk being left behind. QUOTES “One day we'll be able to do a podcast without mentioning the pandemic. Today is not that day.” (Joseph) “I always cringe when I hear the words ‘e-blast' or things like that because it's antithetical to behaviors of humans in general. Nobody is walking around saying ‘Gosh, I really hope I get blasted today.'” (Joseph) “I like to think of this world that we're in as one big party. If you walked into that party alone and you said at top of your lungs, ‘Hey everyone, I just want you to know that I'm really cool.” You're immediately not and you're going to have a hard time convincing everyone that you are.” (Joseph) “Restaurants are the backbone of every single economy – from micro local to federal. If you lose restaurants in the city center, you've lost the city center.” (Joseph) “The first victims of AI are the ones who phone it in. The mediocre hamburger won't be there anymore.” (Joseph) “Bro, we are not eating bugs. It's not happening. Unless there's some sort of nuclear holocaust, Americans are not eating bugs.” (Joseph) TRANSCRIPT 00:01.20 vigorbranding Well hey there um some of you watching this may be a little confused right now usually ah Joseph is on ah on the left side of your screen and for those that who are watching ah this podcast. The reason he's on the right side is because he's a guest a guest today. And I was honored to be 1 of Joseph's guests way back when um, the reason we've switched sides is Joseph has accepted another position. He's no longer with vigor or the provone marketing group but he's off into some wonderful new things that he's going to talk to us about and we're excited to to catch up with Joseph. Um. For those don't know my name is Michael Pavone I'm the Ceo of the provevone group and we have several different agencies in our holding company and we're excited to talk to Joseph. He's created 67 fantastic episodes and we're going to hit a little bit of your. History the the the good old days. Ask you some questions and just just find out what you're up to. 00:55.28 Joseph Szala Awesome. It's great to be here. 01:00.95 vigorbranding Ah, since you're in your house. It probably is always great to be there. But anyway, all right? So ah, let's see let's it's talk. Let's talk about a little bit. What have you been up to talk about your career which you're heading to now and what you're excited about as far as the restaurant industry and technology. 01:04.39 Joseph Szala That's right. 01:17.37 Joseph Szala Yeah, yeah, so um, as you said I forayed out of the advertising and marketing world into more tech forward focus and space I'm currently vice president of digital experience at a transformation company There's not much detail I can say but. We'll we'll say that we're building an experience management system for restaurant brands. Um, you know what? What really got me excited about the tech space is how much this industry is going through a breakneck speed digital transformation. Um. one day we'll be able to do a podcast where we don't mention the pandemic today's not that day. Um, the pandemic really spurred on any mules that were out there and now everyone is realizing that tech is not the way of the future. It's now and um, part of that is how how do we get people. Ah, through ordering faster quicker keep them happy. How do we pull some of that share of wallet away from third -party delivery and then more importantly, how do we make sure that brand teams have access to the tools so they can um pivot and make pivots in real-time all through a singular. Portal that brings together an average of 5 to 8 different systems. So very nerdy stuff but that's the stuff that I get excited about. 02:39.70 vigorbranding It sounds like you have the secret sauce. It's awesome I Mean you're right I mean obviously the whole world's Changed. You see these lines that drivethroughs the delivery services you see the the clients trying to get their share back because these delivery services have come out and taken you know their hands in their pocket and it's really been. Ah. Ah, it's It's amazing how that how fast that happened It's certainly the pandemic exacerbated it. So it's It's kind of ah, kind of interesting to watch and I'll be great to watch you and what you're doing as the time moves On. Um, Okay, so let's jump back a little bit. Ah you don't like blasting people with emails. Ah, you want to talk about that. 03:15.85 Joseph Szala I don't like blessing people in general I think it's a broader what which started as sort of um, a tongue and cheek thing or not a tonguein cheek thing but like 1 moment I always cringe when I hear the words eblast or anything like that because it's inethetical to. Behaviors of humans in general. Nobody's walking around saying gosh I really hope a brand would blast me today. Um, and it sort of harkens to like the old school mentality of advertising and marketing when I say old school I mean like way back in the day where we were just doing billboards and magazine ads where it was push push push push push. Well. The the people have the power they have the power of no no longer just turning the dial as we used to say in the in the tv days um or flipping the page they have the power to completely ignore a brand and shut them out and even more so they have the brand the power to cancel a brand if they get too aggressive and so. Blast then as I pondered it more became ah almost a um I want to say rallying cry but it's going to be more the same There's just a lot of violent terminology in our industry and it's kind of sad because we're not at war with people. Um, we're we're looking to befriend and hopefully get some people to fall in love with our our clients. Um no matter what side of the creative or um, consulting table. You're on the goal is to get them to love the brand and you're not going to do that. 04:47.20 Joseph Szala By blasting them or launching a campaign another war term. Um, it's it's more How do you become friends and and I like to think of this world that we're in as as 1 big party and if you walked into that party alone. And you just at the top of your lungs said hey everyone I just want you to know that I'm really cool. You're immediately not and you're going to have a really hard time convincing anyone that you are after that moment yet. That's how we approach things today we meaning the collective creative advertising industry. Um, and so that really has kind of settled into maybe more of a um personal purpose to 1 identify better terminology. Um, for all these various things. Um, that is a little more in line with what we're actually trying to do and and that's that's why I hate the word blast. 05:50.95 vigorbranding That's fantastic. Um, you also wrote a book. Do you want to talk a little bit about that. 05:53.98 Joseph Szala Yeah, 2 books. So the first book is stop blasting my mama which is essentially building off of that whole line of thinking. It's specifically about emails. But I think maybe one day in the near future. It might get expanded into general messaging marketing theory who knows. 05:57.80 vigorbranding Right. 06:13.56 Joseph Szala Um, but what I would call my greatest achievement in in the literary sense to date or not literary because it is nonfiction. But um, it's called the bullhearted brand which is evocative of more I would say a general thinking and approach to how brands are built. Ah, fostered grown encouraged all the words and then of course marketed and all that other stuff and so the idea is um, boiled down into a bunch of different I would say 10 different um anecdotes that then. Unfurl into Theory. Um I've read a lot I've done a lot and this just happens to be the culmination of all my knowledge at the time and it's something I'm pretty proud of. 07:02.60 vigorbranding Very cool and you should be now speaking of proud I know you did 67 episodes this is my first. What's your advice I mean yeah obviously I'm not as good looking as you so strike one now where do we go from here I mean like what do I do? How give me some advice on. 07:13.58 Joseph Szala Okay, yeah. 07:20.24 vigorbranding And how to be an engaging podcaster or. 07:22.15 Joseph Szala Yeah, So what's good is you have a fantastic history of being able to speak So You're a pretty good Order. So when I when I talk to like a novice or someone who's looking to start I would say the hardest thing that you're going to have to do is get rid of the ums and the Us and the other filler words. Um, you're pretty good at that and so that that doesn't need to be delved into further. Um I think it's yeah and I just said um, too. Yeah, so. 07:45.27 vigorbranding But now that you put that in my head. 07:53.97 Joseph Szala What? Ah, That's usually the toughest thing for people to do. It seems like we're very uncomfortable with silence and pauses. But you start to get really used to them and it becomes an empowering moment I think is when you just stop and let the silence be what it is um on the other hand. I Think one of the other good things is just letting the guest talk but that actually starts not with the host it starts with the production team and making sure that the kind of guests that are brought on have something valuable to say so when when a guest is rambling on I might be doing that Now. It's really easy to want to jump in. 08:23.10 vigorbranding Very cool. 08:30.93 Joseph Szala Um, but when a guest has something really powerful to say it's a lot easier to sit back and let them go. 08:33.75 vigorbranding Fantastic. So the thing second thing I learned is it's all the the production team's fault if it's not good. Perfect well done. That's great. That's that's that's take home value. That's take home value. Fantastic. So so I want to ask another question on your on on the the blog. 08:42.47 Joseph Szala Um, that's right, Yeah, you're the talent you you could just point the finger. That's okay. 08:53.43 vigorbranding Or the blog I'm sorry the the podcast 67 episodes which one was your favorite. 08:58.98 Joseph Szala Ah, man it's such like God is so hard to say it's It's like when you have friends or or kids or or in your dating life. It's like every one of them was different and every one of them was amazing and terrible at the same time. Ah. 09:12.22 Joseph Szala No I think there was generally some great insights coming from people I was really impressed with it's really hard to to keep them apart. Um Carl oresburn which I think his episode should launch soon and Meredith Sandlin um they're just so brilliant and they're at the absolute forefront a digital transformation from a hardware and software side. Um, you know early, you mentioned a lot of the transformation that's happened on the front end like my drivethroughs and my and my lines and everything it's easy for people to ah, not know. Unless they were in the industry and forget if they are no longer in the industry. There's an entire backoffice engine behind the scenes that have to make stuff work. So I mean they're in the nitty gritty especially Marilyn or Meredith. She's absolutely crushing it so much insight and it was. 09:48.13 vigorbranding Sure. 09:59.28 Joseph Szala Both of those episodes were episodes where I wish I could have had more of a Joe Rogan format where it would have been three or four hours long um surprising was ah chef Scott Conant one I was surprised that he agreed to come on so that was awesome. Um, for those that don't know he's on. Tv Networks he's very well-known. But what's so surprising is he his approach his demeanor his intelligence. Um, and just him it was just a really really good talk and one of my prouder moments as well. 10:32.96 vigorbranding Very cool I mean it's It's ah it's interesting to me as you know obviously I've seen podcasts and doing this now being on this side is really ah, really interesting because it is all about the the guest and it's what they have to bring and I sit back and I ask myself too like what do people want to hear. What are they going to want to see and I'm thinking about people that have just great stories entrepreneurs people that have built things from nothing people that have just really you know taken a category if you will and expanded on it that that kind of stuff that excites me I don't know if that's something that that everybody else would would would glom onto I mean I know the. Technology I mean obviously all about food and beverage and restaurants and all that but the technology is super important. It's changing a light speed. Did you you spent most of the time with the technology side of things in the restaurants or did you find that it just hearing people's personal stories about how they got involved is that do you think that's intriguing to guess. 11:22.94 Joseph Szala Yeah I think it is I mean the reason why I'm so passionate about restaurants is they are the backbone of every single economy from micro-local the wholeway to federal and I think people forget that and that includes franchise systems and franchisees. If you lose restaurants in a city center. You've lost the city center. Um, it happened I would say decades ago. Ah, for instance down the street from Harrisburg in York you know York was a ghost town. What brings people back food restaurants. Do. 11:54.67 vigorbranding Um, yeah, yeah. 11:57.28 Joseph Szala Good restaurants and then comes the retail and then comes the businesses because they want their people to be in a bustling location with lots to do and then comes the residences people want to live there but without the restaurants you get none of that. Um, and so that to me is such a powerful thing and. 12:09.30 vigorbranding Ah, right. 12:16.90 Joseph Szala I Think in that vein the stories of how people got into that powerful industry are always interesting I think founders. How did you found the concept and grow it is another one. Everyone wants the secret sauce yet? No one wants to realize that there is no secret sauce. 12:31.58 vigorbranding Right? yeah. 12:34.66 Joseph Szala That the secret sauce from 1980 s is not the secret sauce from today. Um, and that I think how you know how how things are evolving today and how do these leaders continue to grapple wrestle pin down and ultimately win in an ever-changing environment with all these. Shifts that seem to have accelerated so quickly after the the big p. 13:01.76 vigorbranding That's Good. So what? What do you? Think's next for restaurants I mean the technology you're working on obviously is exciting. Ah, we do marketing of restaurants I mean I'm sure we'll continue to work together in the future. What What do you see as ah. I Don't know what's next. What do? What do you think is going to be the the new thing or the thing that we have to really understand. 13:22.37 Joseph Szala Yeah I think some of it is aligned with every other industry mediocrity has no place any longer. There's no place for it Ai the first victims of Ai are going to be those that phone it in so your mediocre hamburger. It won't be there anymore or if it is it's going to be replaced by. Ah. 13:31.65 vigorbranding He. 13:39.59 Joseph Szala By robotics and ai in in general I know it's a really big 2 letters but um, at some point I think we'll also see a complete shift away from the mindless person punching keys on ah you know on a register. And instead becoming more of a helpful entity to help people actually order from kiosks you kind of see it happening in retail already. Especially if you've used the self-checkout at grocery stores or or um, you know like Target or something there are people there whose job is to just help. 14:09.66 vigorbranding M. 14:15.38 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah. 14:16.92 Joseph Szala Make sure you know what you're doing make sure you're able to get through I think we're there especially for qsr restaurants. Um, there are restaurants out there that don't even have those people they just have cubbies and there's a person that backed that makes the food puts them in the cubby just like the old automat. It's been rejuvenated and. 14:27.25 vigorbranding Oh. 14:36.31 Joseph Szala There is a time and place where and I think we're we're at both right now. Full service I think you're going to see a divide. You're going to see a bigger schism between casual dining and fine dining where fine dining gets even higher touch with people who actually not only know the wine menu. But actually know the nuances of the wine If. That's an option at this particular fake restaurant that are very deeply integrated and are very high touch and most of us have had that experience and when you go to that and then you go to like a sort of fine dining or just full service. Man. 15:04.63 vigorbranding Okay. 15:12.67 Joseph Szala That's just going to get so much bigger whereas casual dining I think will become more tech enabled to where you can be more self-service but still have that sitdown moment and then there's the great frontiers of Self-d delivery or self-driving vehicles and what that means for delivery. Um, can I sit in my. Vehicle of the future and order directly from my screen that's in the car without getting in an accident of course. Um and then what does virtual Worlds and the metaverse start to look like um in general and that's where I start to get really weird with you know, ah, 3 D printed food and things like that. But. 15:34.30 vigorbranding Oh. 15:48.74 vigorbranding You. 15:50.90 Joseph Szala Everything that sounds insane today next year probably won't be insane at all. 15:54.12 vigorbranding Yeah, very interesting How about like you you spent a lot of your time branding and helping create Concepts. What do you see? I mean there's There's so many out there. I Mean do we have too many.. What do? What do you think is going to happen where is there a genre that you think is going to be prevalent or or place that people are going to head to I mean I don't think we need another burger joint right? I mean there's just so many burger joints right? So What do you?? What do you think?? What do you think from branding standpoint what's going to be What's What's next. 16:17.27 Joseph Szala Um. 16:23.86 Joseph Szala Yeah I feel like if you ask any anyone of the pundits that talk about Trends and and what's coming they're they're always going to jump to bugs like I swear every year I see a food Trends report. Not um, not on the retail side but maybe on the retail side but when I'm looking at restaurant stuff. It's like and bugs. Bro We are not eating bugs. It's not happening unless there's like some sort of nuclear holocaust like we're just Americans specifically will not be eating Bugs. Um, but I think I think outside of that there are a number of paths that. 16:45.40 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah, yeah. 16:59.20 Joseph Szala That can happen for concepts I think exploring robotics exploring alternative for wall experiences like I know some folks who are embracing all outdoor where the food is cooked outdoors. Everything's outdoors. Um. Very gorilla very interesting to me I don't know if it would have a su but as far as trending we just I think finished up the chicken sandwich wars um I think taco wars are bubbling. Um you know and and we're seeing it Taco Johns for instance, just released their. Ah. 17:27.16 vigorbranding O. 17:35.27 Joseph Szala Trademark of Taco tuesday along with a call to action from Taco Bell to do something charitable when they use it and donate Taco Bell ignored it completely. But we'll see if they embrace it? Um, but the fast food tacos are something that I would definitely keep my eye on. And then I think we're still looking for what's that next american food staple. You know we have tacos pizza. We have hamburgers like you said what else you know what? what else are we going to embrace. 17:56.33 vigorbranding Who. 18:05.82 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah, you know it's funny I had this idea one of my dreams was ah I wanted to create my own restaurant franchise. So my idea which was a terrible one by the way is I wanted to buy a location near every like single a double a triple a ballpark right. And I wanted to call it baseball hot dogs and apple pie and I just wanted to sell hot dogs and have different hot dogs on the menu named after the players tied into the players and then different like Apple pies like that's it and a draft beer so you can have it outside the ballpark. It would be a sports bar and everything else I just thought it had enough of a niche and I always wanted to create that business I just thought it would be the most fun thing and anyway. 18:24.37 Joseph Szala Um. 18:30.40 Joseph Szala Yep. 18:43.29 Joseph Szala Yeah, it's probably why you still have money? yeah. 18:43.82 vigorbranding I never did it but maybe one day and it probably fail. Yeah, exactly exactly it'd probably fail. So yeah I know I know how to stay in my lane. Ah all right? So so great I mean this has been fantastic now we going to go down through memory lane a little bit here. Ah. 18:50.96 Joseph Szala Right. 18:59.68 Joseph Szala Ah. 18:59.87 vigorbranding And ask you some questions we're going to test you on your knowledge of your guests and ah boy I hope no one ever does this to me. Ah, and we're and and I'll remember my first guess I'm good I got that one down so that's 3 things I got nailed down from this this interview. Um, who was your first. Forktails guest. 19:19.50 Joseph Szala Oh yeah, so it's funny. Ah, the first forktales guest was my friend sam slaughter he was also a copywriter at vigor at the time to known for bathing with a bunch of cheese balls. 19:25.71 vigorbranding It's correct. Oh. We We won't dig into that any deeper. But anyway, ah, ah, all right? So which guests did you have on the show more than once. Yes, very good, Very good. 19:34.86 Joseph Szala Um, listen to the episode. 19:44.15 Joseph Szala Justin Bartek yeah 19:49.15 vigorbranding All right? Let's see here which guest is described in his episode as let's see here lover of seafood and honesty. 20:00.10 Joseph Szala That is chef Andrew gruel. 20:06.80 vigorbranding And you're nailing them here. You might might have someone give you the answers ah finish this quote from your interview with Meredith Sandland if someone comes here and tries to take my blank. It's going to get really ugly very good. 20:19.42 Joseph Szala My gas stove I stand by that. 20:23.50 vigorbranding Ah, good. Ah all right? which guest beat Bobby Flay 20:32.66 Joseph Szala Ah, Kenny Gilbert right yeah oh man, best chicken sandwiches man if you're ever in Jacksonville chicken sandwiches and champagne. That's all you need to know. 20:35.12 vigorbranding That's correct. Yes, it is very good. Yeah, nice, nice sounds like a perfect combo all right, which guest was born and raised in Hawaii and is now a chef in Denver very good, very good. 20:51.55 Joseph Szala Ah, Chef Choy Guard Yeah, all about that Aloha ohanna. 20:59.80 vigorbranding And which guest said this is said my job as ah as lead creative is to give everyone creative whiplash. You never know where we're going to do next. 21:07.76 Joseph Szala That is the guy from liquid death whose name I'm blanking on Andrew Pearson there it is yep. 21:14.55 vigorbranding Andrew Pearson yep very good and the the folks of liquid death are killing it no pun intended. So right finish this quote from you in your interview with Lauren Fernandez 21:22.62 Joseph Szala Um, yeah. 21:29.75 vigorbranding You can tell how well a restaurant is managed if you just look at the. 21:35.38 Joseph Szala God landscaping now. 21:40.14 vigorbranding You know what? The only thing they wrote down was blank. So I can't answer it. The only one I don't have an answer on you don't have an answer on how about the bathrooms I would say the bathrooms. 21:48.40 Joseph Szala Yeah, it could be bathrooms for sure landscaping. Oddly enough is one and then I would say the happiness of the employees but they may all be wrong. 22:00.36 vigorbranding Um, we'll put all 3 down all right? Oh no, it's here the vents. 22:05.92 Joseph Szala Oh God The vents. Yes, oh next time you're at a restaurant either do or don't just look up at the air events man. Oh how can I forget that. 22:13.16 vigorbranding Yeah, we're all looking we're we're all looking around my office now at the air events but a bit aren they're okay, no, no yeah. 22:20.26 Joseph Szala Well, the good news is you're not making food but there's something pretty disgusting if you're making food and those air vens are just just C clopped full of old grease and the. 22:26.65 vigorbranding Ah, yeah, that's funny which which guest was described in her episode title as 1 woman economic engine. 22:36.81 Joseph Szala Oh that is Adena Ana Bio she's absolutely wonderful. 22:43.10 vigorbranding Yep, very cool finish this quote from you in your interview with Zach Anderson whenever I have a bad day I think to myself at least I'm not. 22:57.46 Joseph Szala Oh god yeah least I'm not working on 1 again. Um, at least I'm not mopping the floor is that what that isn't it. Oh I'm blanking on that one. 22:59.72 vigorbranding Ties into restaurants. 23:10.51 vigorbranding Know it's It's ah it's honestly it's how I started my career. It's busing tables. 23:17.30 Joseph Szala Busing tables. Yeah dude Oh God Although if we ever wanted to know the key to stopping time. That's it You can literally stop time by either planks doing planks or busing tables. 23:27.49 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah, you know I will say though in in all joking side I got one heck of an education from busing tables I worked in a restaurant called hobarts with a gentleman by the name of Hobart Umberger Hobart was this chef. He had a restaurant that sold a lot of quantity food was called ah it was called ummmies in Hershey and he wanted to do. He's got older. He just wanted to do whatever he wanted to do he wanted to do his thing so as the chef he opened up hobarts named after him white tablec cloth. He made maybe five things a night didn't care if you liked it or not and that's what he made. And was as simple as that but he taught me everything I won't get into what he called me as a nickname I think he actually liked me but I can't say to anybody what he called me. But anyway I digress he taught me how to pour ah mixed drinks because I'd have to make him mixed drinks at the end of his night. 24:04.58 Joseph Szala Yeah. 24:19.30 vigorbranding He basically taught me everything I knew about food and wine I got an incredible education at age I think it was 14 like I need to worry about wine at 14 and than anybody in my family and most any well all my friends you know, just because Hobart would teach me and it was ah was actually pretty cool. In fact. Ah, 1 thing that was kind of neat was ah he would go in at three o'clock in the afternoon to make his coconut cream emirata pie and no one was allowed in a building and go ah gourmet magazine ah begged him begged him for his recipe and he would never give it to him so he died with it. It was kind of interesting thing. They'd write him. Letters. 24:38.76 Joseph Szala And. 24:51.54 vigorbranding Because a lot of prominent people that came through hershey always ate. There was the best restaurant in Hershey and people would write letters to the magazine and so they kept begging him for this anyway, kind of a neat thing. But yeah, it was cool and I really did truly get a phenomenal education from that from busing tables and working in that restaurant business all right? so. 24:58.90 Joseph Szala I Love that. 25:06.56 Joseph Szala Um, well I think that's a testament to to the restaurant industry in general, not not to diverge too much. But again not only is it the economic backbone of every every locale. Um, but it's a hell of a way to get a hard knocks education that is unforgettable. No matter where you go after that I mean you're. You're you're the Principal partner of a very large advertising conglomerate I'd be willing to bet that your your your travel to that layer would have been a little bit more difficult had you not been in the trenches at that at that location. 25:37.82 vigorbranding Ah, yeah, look in ah in a restaurant you learn how to hustle you learn how to deal with issues as they pop up because that's what they do, they just pop up and you get to deal with customers and you make everyone happy. So you you learn a lot about yourself. Ah. You don't have 5 layers of folks around you to protect you per se and it's just ah, really kind of an interesting kind of dynamic and you're just thrown into it especially when you're young I've always wanted my kids to work in a restaurant and also somehow do sales I don't care if you're selling girl scout cookies. 25:56.11 Joseph Szala Okay. 26:07.82 Joseph Szala Ah. 26:09.34 vigorbranding Or newspapers I mean I'm now I'm really dating myself here but whatever it would be that you're selling just a sales job. Huge huge education that you don't even know you're getting that you don't even know you getting So anyway, um you had a great thing at the end of every one of your podcasts. You would ask the same questions and I want to continue that tradition. 26:14.76 Joseph Szala Absolutely yep. 26:28.51 vigorbranding Ah, so you have one last meal. What do you eat and why. 26:34.47 Joseph Szala Yeah, so for those that have ever listened to all of them back to-back which is literally nobody except for me I've answered it and I thought about this again because I did know this question was coming. It hasn't changed. Um I would have a Thanksgiving dinner. Absolutely hands down. Um, it's my favorite meal and I have the unique situation where I know that that's what I would choose because there was a time in my life where I thought I was having my last dinner and um, it was before yeah I mean good good good perspective um 26:52.12 vigorbranding That's it. Thanks Jimmy. 27:02.83 vigorbranding Nice, Well not nice, but right. 27:10.58 Joseph Szala You know I was going to have heart I had heart surgery. So although it was fairly so you know safe. It's still heart surgery you know and so I was like this very well could be the last mail Thanksgiving dinner man. Absolutely. 27:16.67 vigorbranding Sure really. Wow now I got a side question would it be just the meal itself because you love like the turkey and the gravy by yourself. Are you talking Thanksgiving dinner with everybody that you normally have a Thanksgiving dinner with and and hopefully none of your family's going to watch us to know the real answer. So. 27:31.95 Joseph Szala Um, to stay. Yeah, Absolutely um, I'd be I'd be selective with who I broke bread with because there's some family members that I love them because they're family but my God I would not want to have my last meal with them. And I think that's everyone. But for the food sake I could eat alone and be happy for the sake of the moment I Absolutely would love my family to be there. 28:00.95 vigorbranding Fantastic Speaking of family you have some ah big news. We love to talk about that. 28:03.36 Joseph Szala Yeah, sure yeah number 2 our second baby is on the way evelyn our first is about to turn ten months at this time of this recording and baby boy will be here by the end of the year and we're ah, really excited and honored and. 28:17.68 vigorbranding Fantastic. Are you gonna be the oldest father in the elementary school. 28:21.98 Joseph Szala Praying for Health and happiness. You know Absolutely I'm going to be in there with a walker. Yeah. 28:29.42 vigorbranding Ah, that's awesome Joe so I've known you for a long time and I'm happy for you I'm proud of you and I'm congratulations. That's wonderful. Wonderful. 28:35.46 Joseph Szala Absolutely well I'll drop one more piece of news that might get you excited before this is all over in case, you haven't heard Atlanta has finally been honored by being accepted into consideration for Michelin stars. So we were all. 28:48.93 vigorbranding Nice. 28:52.93 Joseph Szala Everyone in the food community here in this city. We're all, um, hoping and excited to see if one of our many fantastic restaurants will be graced with star stars. Whatever it may be so next time you come down to the city. Hopefully you'll you'll have that option. 29:06.41 vigorbranding very cool. very cool yeah yeah I'll be down in a couple couple of weeks I'm gonna watch a Braves Phillies game. So looking forward to that and I heard something in the background some'm cheering I think it was are yelling somebody was ah their baby I think was excited about the Michelin star. So that's awesome. 29:19.53 Joseph Szala Yeah, yeah, evelyn it's perfect. 29:22.54 vigorbranding But's awesome. Ah fantastic. Well, it's thank you so much for this. It's been great. It's always good catching up with you and I I know we'll stay in touch. 29:28.32 Joseph Szala Absolutely I'm looking forward to seeing hearing the guests and and hearing the interviews and really happy that you're able to continue continue on with us. 29:35.72 vigorbranding Yeah, only hopefully I can fill your shoes. It'll be tough but I'm gonna do my best. So awesome! Thanks Joseph. 29:42.20 Joseph Szala Um, if they're not that big. Yup cheers.

Caroline serves as Chief Operating Officer of Tupelo Honey and is a champion of high-growth, employee-centric workplaces. She joined the company as part of the initial senior leadership team in 2013. In Caroline's nine-year tenure, she has been responsible for Tupelo Honey's workforce expansion efforts, founding and leading its human resources and training teams and growing the brand from two locations and less than 100 employees to 22 locations and more than 15,000 employees. Tupelo Honey's goal is to be at the forefront of the employee experience and at the forefront of what can be the new experience for restaurant workers. Sixty percent of Tupelo Honey's management positions are filled from within the company. . Like a lot of restaurants, many Tupelo Honey managers started as servers or dishwashers, which helps them relate to entry level employees and makes them better managers. Communications methods like text alerts for younger workers (instead of email) work well for Tupelo Honey and its employees. It's important for companies to initiate conversations with employees about culturally significant events that might impact employees, even if those conversations are difficult to have. Those conversations build trust with employees and show that a company cares. QUOTES “The restaurant industry is being required to level up in how we're looking at the employee experience.” (Caroline) “We have to add the human element back (in restaurant employment) and care about people holistically. They have a life outside of work and they want support beyond just a paycheck.” (Caroline) “Entry level workers want to stay. They want a path to grow their careers.” (Caroline) “Younger workers and millennial workers learn differently. We've had to recognize that there's a different way to communicate with them.” (Caroline) “Every employee is different and restaurants can't have a one-size-fits-all program. You have to have options for everyone.” (Caroline) “What we do is simple. At the end of the day, it's about one guest, one relationship and one experience.” (Caroline) TRANSCRIPT 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by my new friend Carolyn Skinner she is the Ceo so Ceo oh not yet although Carolyn there has been a history of people on this show getting rapidly promoted. So don't want to dangle the carrot it could happen. 00:10.69 caroline Hello that. 00:14.32 vigorbranding Ceo of tupalo honey which we're going to dig into the concept a little bit throughout this episode talk a lot of other things as well for now Carolyn say hello and give a little backstory. 00:24.80 caroline Yeah, thank you Joseph for having me. Um I am Caroline Skinner chief operating officer I am a native of Asheville North Carolina which is also the home. Um, an original location for Tupelo Honey um and our restaurant brand has been around for about 20 years we really started to grow in the last ten years I've been with the company for 10 years and seen pretty much all of the last twenty of our 21 locations launch in open so I'm really happy to be here. 00:53.85 vigorbranding I awesome yeah and I appreciate you taking the time out so we work together put together an awesome production sheet I think there's so many great things to talk about and then Harvard business review came up with their new episode episode issue and these have a fantastic article in here called. Ah, the high cost of neglecting low-wage workers and I think there's no better outline to kind of go off of here because tuplelo how has been doing such great things that I think you're actually tackling a lot of these challenges. But I think we want to know more Um, and so. I think this might be a better outline and so I'm going to throw a ringer at Caroline today and she has approved this ringer. So what I'll do is I'll lift list off the challenges or the or the misconceptions and let's just pick them apart together. Um, so the 6 here number 1 is. Restaurant leaders. Don't realize that low-age workers really want to stay with them number 2 is they underestimate the importance of location and stability they meaning restaurant leaders 3 restaurant leaders underestimate workers goodwill 4 they leave workers to initiate create ah career discussions five they disregard low-wage workers strategic importance and then the final one is failing workers on 3 things that matter the most which is mentorship career pathways and guidance on learning and development so that is quite. 02:23.60 vigorbranding Ah, strong list of issues that is a far cry from the they want paid more money. Ah Narrative which obviously we're very well-versed in so clipping at number one here. How how do you approach realizing that low-wage workers. Actually want to stay with the company. They don't want to leave How do? How do you tackle that. 02:45.25 caroline Yeah I mean for us and I think so let's just talk about the the industry in general I think our industry has gotten a bad rap and especially in the last three years when you talk about people having having options the gig economy whether that's you know the. Car drivers. Um, you've got people like Amazon coming out and really these entry workers are getting targeted from from lots of other industries and the industry as a whole the restaurant industry I think is being required to level up in how we're looking at the employee experience. For us at Tuplelo and just a little bit more about my background actually started with the company in human resources was the first hire had a closet office and it was just sort of like we need to figure this out. Ah and we really wanted and I say as a small. Company at even at the time you know we we always functioned. It's a small but mighty big ideas and we were at the forefront of a lot of the farm to table movements early in Ashville and when I came on really the task was we want to be ah at the forefront of the employee experience. Um and we want to be at the forefront of. What we believe can be the new experience for the restaurant worker that was ten years ago and we were doing things that nobody had even heard of um, like coming up with a program. We called our fair start wage program and it was um it was base wages but it was wages with insurance for tip workers so you would never as a tip worker. 04:16.12 vigorbranding Um, blue. 04:17.39 caroline Have to worry about getting stiffed by and a customer and that affecting your take home pay. You could never go below a certain threshold and we were doing that you know ten ten years ago and we had things like our honey pot program and it was more of a it's a lifestyle benefit where. You can dip into the pot for everything from tuition reimbursement if that's where you are in life to um, paid parental leave if you've got children and a family and I think the industry did ah it was challenged at the time about you know. Work is very transactional. You come in, you get your tips you go home and you do your part I do my part and and we we go our separate ways. Um, but where we saw the trend of the industry going is you know we have to really add the human element back and care about people holistically. Um, that they have a life outside of work that they want support beyond just a paycheck and so I think going back to the the heart of that question. Ah these entry level workers. They want to stay. They want a path to grow their careers and when you start really valuing. Them as humans and their experience in in the work as you know we're taking care of them and their life. It's not just about the time that they're here. We're giving them options to go out and whether that's raise a family whether that's pursue education whether that's. 05:41.74 caroline Just offsetting things like transportation cost. That's ah, that's a real thing and and they're looking for those options so meeting them where they are but but knowing that every employee' is a little different so you can't have a 1 size fitts all program that says. You know here's the magic bullet for a great employee experience. You have to have options for everybody. 06:01.21 vigorbranding Yeah I love that I love the idea that honey pot as well I presume that the honey pot was probably handcrafted by one of the employees because you are in Asheville if you know you know? Um, so there's I'm sure there was a potter on staff. It's like no literally I'm going to make a honey pot. Um, that's right. 06:14.26 caroline Honey back. 06:18.31 vigorbranding So I love I love that approach. Um, and in rethinking the employee experience I think one one of the issues that a lot of companies across many industries have is that they have these this suite of we'll call them low-age workers I hate we got to think of a better name entry level. Um. And and 1 or two start to rise to the top with their work ethic with their ability to follow procedures and those folks usually get put on a track to management. Um, if it's not carefully crafted if if they're not given the opportunity to ah be educated and trained on what management is. I think you see a lot of flailing at that level meaning this third issue is um or fourth issue as you say is leaving workers to initiate career discussions when you start putting on that managerial hat the responsibility is not only ensuring that everyone's following procedure. Not only is it scheduling and I don't want to give anyone a ptsd here because we can go down the list. Of all the managers roles but it is to start to guide the new crop of entry level workers on their paths. Whatever they may be how how have you tackled that um issue of making sure that managers are not just trained for the um. The day-to-day grind side of things but the actual like how am I going to foster these people's careers. So. 07:36.48 caroline Yeah, well I think it's first and foremost just culturally ingrained in every single one of our managers cause they've experienced it. Um I can think of so many of our general managers today. The average tenure of our general managers is is six years and we've only been growing for 10 so that. Says to you most of them have been been here for a large part of our growth and many of them started as servers. Many of them started as cooks or dishwashers. Um, so for them, they're sharing their story which is um for these injur entry level workers. Hey I was in your shoes I started as a server and I didn't I didn't actually see this as a career path but I'm now I'm a general manager of this company now I'm a regional director of this company and so and we even have kind of the nontraditional pass as well because we've had the benefit of being ah a startup company and now we have. Ah, we call it our hive. We. We don't like the term corporate office but we have workers who facilitate different departments so we have people in it that started out as servers we have people in our construction department that started out in the kitchen and it's I think it's very very culturally rooted in the leadership of our company that. This topic of growth that that you can aspire to be just about anything in a company like ours and your your career path is actually a path. This is. It's not just a dead end job. It's not just ah, a means to an end and if it is that's okay, um, but they're seeing examples real time of. 09:09.29 caroline People that are around them and that they're working with on a regular basis that that were exactly where they were not that long ago. 09:16.94 vigorbranding It yeah and so I think one of the things that happens too. Well, there's a good stat here 60% of your management positions have been filled from within the company I mean that's practicing what you preach really starts to make a statement. It's not a dangled carrot. It's not ah well if you work real hard for 35 years maybe you'll be able to wash lettuce now. Um. 09:34.19 caroline Um. 09:34.57 vigorbranding You know? but I think one of the issues that managers come up across too is ah that lack of training leading to burnout and frustration and early departure. Um how how have you guys tackled that how have you made sure that they're supported and that they have the right training. 09:49.85 caroline Yeah, we we come at it from all angles and really when you're talking about entry level workers. Especially younger workers millennial workers. They they learn differently and so we've had to recognize there's a different way to communicate with them. Um, we've a we've actually just started. Um, a text alert system that's automated so that they get different ah pings at different points in their employment experience. So on day one we're saying hey did you realize you're you're eligible for all these benefits on 3 day 3 we're checking in with them. How's your training going and they love that because they can engage real time and it's like wow. Someone's asking me about my feedback somebody cares enough to share this with me but it's not in the like hey let's send them an email and hope that they read it because this generation is not is not what they're doing so I think it's meeting them where they are with communication but it's also very multifaceted when it comes to training so within this industry. Um, it is fast. It is a lot of on-the- job learning and you know we're not expecting for people to sit in front of a computer for 10 hours and then be equipped to do the job. Um, so we're hitting them with you know micro learning bite size learning. But then we're also saying okay, let's apply this in the real world. Let's get some hands-on learning. Um, surround them with trainers. We invest really heavily in trainers whether that be in the location when we're doing a new restaurant opening actually bringing trainers from all across the country kind of the best of the best to say you know we're gonna work alongside you and make sure that you're you're equipped. But then the third thing I'll say and I think this. 11:24.33 caroline Maybe hits on a nerve within the industry I think there's been historically just workers that have ah had a harder time rising through the ranks and you know we see we see that with females. We see that with people of color and we've created a program specifically and we call it our aspire program to. Take those underrepresented people who have historically had harder time and maybe haven't historically had the mentorship or the support system we put them through a fifty two week mentorship program it's designed for high potential people. It's designed for people that are. Historically underrepresented in the industry and we give them a 1 ne-on-one coach mentor um so they're getting leadership development via the coach. They're also getting group learning sessions so they meet and they cover topical sessions and are really kind of a way to to unite high potential leaders across the company. We use Zoom and we use technology to facilitate all of this. But um I think a lot of times the industry has ignored those people who are underrepresented or hasn't made an intentional effort to promote them and that is something that we're being very intentional about and we're actually saying you know, no no, we want a diverse workforce because we. We serve a diverse customer base and and we want representation from all walks of life and so we're specifically targeting those people and saying like hey we're going to invest in you to have a coach to have a mentor to really raise you up and the promotion rate out of that program is about 75% so when we put people through it. They get this. 12:54.71 caroline This personalized custom coaching. They're better equipped to to take on new roles in advance. 13:01.22 vigorbranding Yeah, it sounds like I mean you're you're hitting that last um, that number 6 pretty hard which is the mentorship. There's clear career pathways and there is guidance on learning and development and and those 3 are the keys I think above all else. But I think it's also interesting. Is you know, unpacking the um the the you know the perceived ceiling that a lot of under. So I mean a lot of underserved communities are facing I wonder how much of that is a result of the human nature to simply just identify with people that act like you. Look like you and things like that. Ah, meaning that requires some different kind of like education and training. It's not just identifying high potential. It is um, hey this person may be different for me in every single way but man they are checking. Box a b c d and e for being a really good manager even though we may not get along I mean we get along. But and I mean like we're not going to go out. We're not going to have a beer. We're not going to hang out and we don't have shared interests but boom how do you How do you start to even chip away at um, polishing those skills because they're they're so nuanced. 14:12.85 caroline Oh yeah, it's absolutely true and I think validated with research that that we hire people that are like us or we gravitate towards hiring people that are like us and so I think first is awareness and we've made a very intentional effort to have diversity training up front. But also then it comes back to exactly what you referenced having clear checkpoints for what is what does the skill set look like not the personality. Not the you know, but they talk like me or act like me. What's the skill that we're looking for to identify. And then being able to say yeah, you've achieved this milestone or if you haven't having conversations about why where you are and how you can get there. We do that because our kitchens are so scratch made one of the most important roles in our company is our executive chef and. Um, we do this on ah on a regular basis and we're hoping to do it even more frequently where we go through and ah assess our chefs where they are in every skill set and we but we develop that skill set based off our most successful chefs. And we said you know what do you have what percent of these skills. Do you have what percent. Do you not have and then we're going to continue to talk about the ones that you don't until you know you're you're fully where we need you to be. 15:34.39 vigorbranding So Yeah I Love that So I Think what's interesting is how do you start to break that inclination. Overall you know in my head there. There are some easy easy or what seem to be easy paths which is um if you look like x. I'm going to pair you with everything not X if you look like y same path and so I think that's a nice one step but I think any any progress as a um company as a team as a society which we don't need to get into that bigger one is feeling like you're safe to express your thoughts. And I think that starts by creating a place that is um I hesitate to use the word safe because I think it's been overused in the wrong ways. But um, a place of shared interest that is not aligned with your personal values. But a shared interest of common growth and and coming to understanding um is that in the top of your mind is that like kind of boiling in there as you think about these programs. 16:40.86 caroline Yeah, and I think it's something um you know that when we are, we're facilitating communication. We're facilitating. Programs being really intentional but it's something that that really flew in the face of I think this industry even through the pandemic when you talk about the conversations that were spread around George Floyd and um just diversity in general in this country people of color and the challenges that they had and. We we stepped into those conversations and it it wasn't always graceful and it wasn't always perfect. But I can tell you that our people and I heard some examples even recently um, our people appreciated the fact that you're acknowledging a moment that. Is impactful for our country impactful for everyone but specifically impactful and especially hard for a certain group of people and sometimes it's just picking up the phone and saying are you? Okay, you know I see you I acknowledge you I acknowledge what's going on right now and it's ah it's a hard time. Um, but Pat. Ah, rather than just ignoring the sentiment and and and we've I've spoke with leaders in our company who were like you know previously in my work life. It was like it's not happening. We're going to ignore it. We're not going to talk about it but having the boldness encouraged to say wow this is. 17:58.45 caroline This is a thing that's happening. It's a hard thing and and we're gonna talk about it. We're gonna check in with you. We're gonna make sure you're okay, um, that goes so far and especially when we're talking about these entry level workers because you know they're carrying weight that a lot of times we don't realize and you know just giving them the benefit Of. Um, acknowledging sometimes that you know things can be hardened. There's burdens that we may not know that they're carrying Um, that's compassion. That's empathy, but that's also great leadership and I think again the restaurant industry is being challenged more than anyone and we were on the front lines of pretty much everything when it came to the pandemic. But. But these really hard Conversations. We were on the front line of and I think you're seeing the companies that did that well and that really entered into those conversations and were brave enough to enter into the conversations. Um, and maybe they didn't always do it perfectly and they didn't always have you know the perfect thing to say but they were they were bold enough to to step into it. Um, they're earning trust and they're earning respect from those workers and that goes back to kind of who we are just being absolutely authentic and and being able to you know, navigate these things the best we can with mutual understanding for our employees but also Mutual respect that we're learning things from them that you know. They're helping us as as we go through this journey too. 19:16.88 vigorbranding I yeah I love that I mean because it wasn't for everyone I mean we we were we were on the front lines or maybe not the front lines we were in the back office from you know the backlines um of everything that was happening with the pandemic everything that was happening with ah the the George Floyd um tumult I'll just call it that. Um, and in some cases some of our clients were just ill ah illrepared and ill-equipped and honestly shouldn't have had a voice in it. But what you said I want to reiterate because I think that's an important approach which is it started by picking up the phone and talking to the people internally not. Putting the black box on your Instagram and saying oh that's done um and and having just say hey we're here for you. We understand as much as we can understand we are a company after all that makes a lot of sense and I think that empathy lever is um. 20:07.93 caroline Um, to you are. 20:12.26 vigorbranding Oftentimes not easily pooled for some of the leadership that we have in the industry and across all industries for that matter. But it's also it can be a bit of a dangerous one because you can almost empathize too much. Um, where the person's like okay I've heard you let it go. Ah I want I Want to get back to work I Want to focus on my career kind of thing. Um. 20:24.69 caroline Um, yeah, yeah. 20:31.61 vigorbranding And I like that you brought it back to the entry levell workers because I think there is there. There's 2 narratives at play right now that I see the one that is most prevalent is there's a bunch of people who want pay too much to do an entry-level job and they don't want to work and I think there are representation. There's representation of that we see it right. Um, but I think some of that issue starts with devaluing um the insane strategic importance of to use a term that you probably never want to use in your company drones or worker bees right? Like you're so much more than that just because your entry level and so I think if the. 21:05.99 caroline Um. 21:10.37 vigorbranding If The script is flipped. It's like wait a second. How can we treat these folks better and show them that entry level is a label that can easily dissipate with us. Um, how how have you approached the messaging around that. Because when when you're talking of bringing folks through the system. It's Easier. You have a direct line of communication when you're trying to draw them in.. How do you pass the smell test with some of the messaging. How do you get them to believe you and outside of word of mouth of course because that's a different type of marketing. 21:42.91 caroline Yeah I mean I think for us there as we grow you know in more business like you said they you know we we still have metrics. We still have ah objectives that we're targeting in all of our. Restaurants and we've been quite successful at it. We're industry leading and a lot of those metrics. Our average restaurant volume is 4000000 and we're hitting on some of these industry-leading aspects of why we're growing and how we're growing um and and that also comes with. You know a little bit of skepticism from employees. Okay, well, you're growing and um, but what's in it for me and so I think we're coming back to obviously proving that out with employees is you know, putting your actions. Ah. To work and and for us right now. All of our profits are going back into the company. So yes, they're funding great metrics and great results but they're also funding jobs and opportunities and so our employees are seeing on a regular basis. Ah, new positions created new locations created. We're entering into new markets where there's jobs. Um, and I think getting a lot of credibility from that first and foremost. But then we also you know we're we're giving back to and yes, we're a for- profit business and yes you know we're focused on our profitability. But. 23:05.45 caroline Um, heart and soul behind what we do is our people is our employees and that's hospitality so they have to be bought in that we trust we empower we believe in them. Um, we launched our biscuits for a cause fund just as an example during the pandemic and this program really was kind of It was you know pandemic was worst case scenario for us. Um, 95% of our sales dropped in a matter of a day when our business was relegated to takeout and we were in that moment I very clearly remember sitting in our senior team meeting and sort of wrestling with what is next. And you know there's all the decisions like technology and to go and we turn on all these things and um, you know, really pivoting our entire business model but the very first conversation was how do we take care of our people and what does this look like because clearly we can't run a business. Where 95% of our sales are down and keep all of these people. How can we still take care of them. Um, so in the midst of of furloughing our employees. We also said um, we're going to look at our business and while we are making little to no profit. Let's figure out a way that we can create a fund for our employees and. You know the magic of the biscuit appeared at that moment where we said we've been giving away this item on our menu for forever. Um, we're gonna go to to go. We don't even know if people always want biscuits when they're ordering to go so let's put a price on it but instead of just putting a price. Let's put a. 24:19.50 vigorbranding Are. 24:36.72 caroline And opportunity and so um, we said you know profits are gonna from the biscuit are going to go to our employees. We're also going to put a donation line because we knew it was heavy on everybody's mind industry restaurant as a whole was Struggling. So. Um, it started right there that you know we were taking this one item and we were sort of converting it to say we want to give this back to our employees. Um, and when we did you know we we had no idea how it was going to Catch. Um, it's. 25:06.72 caroline We didn't really even know how the biscuit would sell because we'd never sold it before we didn't know if it was going to be a popular item to sell um so started selling them started selling them and take out and the whole thing just sort of caught fire and guests loved it. Employees Loved it. They loved to people to talk about a fun that. 25:11.17 vigorbranding Um, right? yeah. 25:25.26 caroline Goes directly to their benefit. Um, and to date it's it's generated $600000 so I think that's where that's where like you can be a business and you can still do good for your people um, get them to buy and get them to believe in that. But also let you let your action speak for that. 25:28.69 vigorbranding Oh God I Love that? yeah. 25:39.65 vigorbranding Hundred percent yeah I love that story and I think telling that story is so incredibly important because it really is the actions and and we say that a lot to our clients is that we can spend here all day Nalgas we can pretend to build a thing we can talk about it in new ways. But if you're not doing it if you're not if you're not able to actually show it. It's really going to fall flat. Um, and it's going to prevent growth right? So it looks like there's very measurable ways that you've built people up from entry level to new positions that open up as well as leadership positions you yourself being representative that going from the um. 26:16.33 vigorbranding I'm going to say something that I will I promise you I will not make it your title the Harry Potter of ah hr in the closet up to you know where you are today. Um, you know and and these other paths as well and so that has it looks like it's spawned a lot of growth so we're at 23 locations now. 26:23.14 caroline Um, yeah, yeah. 26:35.59 vigorbranding And the goal is to be at 38 by 2025? Um, obviously good strong hr internally helps with that. What are some of the other keys in your mind that really help to create strong sustained growth meaning how do we. Expand doubt without having to retract and. 26:55.68 caroline Yeah, um, we like to say it's it's what we do is simple at the end of the day. it's it's about 1 guest. It's about 1 relationship and 1 experience and if we can have that mindset when we're in the restaurant and even when we're talking about growth you know, doubling. Your growth in 3 years sounds insurmountable, but really, it's about the guests that walk into our door and having that relationship and having that experience with them each and every time and so um, we kind of like to take it down to the smallest possible level and view it from. Okay, you know, let's. Let's let's double our growth. But um, how do we do that to each and every guest that comes in and how do we ensure that that experience is exactly the way we want it every single time and I think there's several components to that. Um foundationally training and making sure that you're hiring the right people. Um, but beyond that once you do that I think there is a big component that is partly empowering them to do the right thing they know the brand they've had the training. We've talked about that already. But I think what we've created for. Our restaurants is we want you to be local in every market. We want you to know your market. This is not a you know cookie cutter brand and if if you couldn't tell we're in locations from Boise idaho to Myrtle Beach South Carolina so so the brand resonates but we can't. 28:23.79 caroline Expect that tupalo honey boise is going to look the same as tupalo honey myrtle beach and every community has a unique um and unique feel. A unique employee base and so we want our managers to be empowered to have that local feel that's also very authentically tupalo being being Asheville um. You know we have that independent spirit and we've always had that independent creative spirit so we want our managers. We want our team to still be who they are within their community. Um, and just 1 example I'll I'll tell you of how we create the guardrails but also empower them to do what they do locally. We have a program called the 1 guest program. It's it's right off that slogan 1 guest 1 experience 1 relationship? Um, and we use a little bit of technology so behind our host stand. We sort of power it with guest frequency information so we can see when guests are coming in. And know when a guest walks in that is ah a regular. This program is designed to really recognize our regulars in the moment. So the host Dan will throw up a little flag that might say Joseph's coming in and he's been here 6 times in the last six months so he's your he's a regular vip. Which alerts our managers to say wow this is somebody that really we should value that is ah is a loyal guest. Um, and we have a program behind that right? It's our worn guest program comes with a little gold coin. The manager can actually go up in the moment talk to that guest and say Joseph I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for being a regular. 29:55.88 caroline We want to invite you to our 1 guest program and with that comes you know free apps, a secret menu item. Lots of goodies but at the end of the day. What's really important about that program is the relationship that that manager just built with that guess sure there's technology sure there's a program behind it. But the power of being recognized in the moment as a guest and and having someone actually know without you knowing that they know that you've been there that you've invested your money there and that that you care enough to keep showing back and then taking time in that very moment to say hello to say. Thank you That's really powerful and and those are the hospitality moments that we're trying to create and and I think that's what people want more of they want less of the loyalty emails and they want less of the you know how many places can somebody hit me over the head with your brand message. Um, but they want more of those authentic. In-person relationship driven moments where you know I value you as a human coming into my restaurant spending your time spending your heart on money and that's just an example of a tool and a way that we empower our managers to say you know you are local. You are myrtle beach tupalo honey. And and it's not too below honey the the 22 location brand. It's too below Honey Myrtle beach because I know Patrick and he's the general manager here and he came in and talked to me today. Um, so I think that's that's a little bit of why and how we're growing. Um. 31:21.00 vigorbranding Um, right. 31:28.81 caroline We want it to be. We want it to be local. We want it to be unique in every market and we're trying to create systems that allow managers not to reinvent the wheel but but to be local to be authentic while also still kind of operating into the Twolo Honey umbrella. 31:44.68 vigorbranding Yeah I Love that example as Well. I mean there's a lot of discussions around ah the coldness of technology and how you can strip out the human touch and the hospitality of the whole thing and that's a good way of using technology as what it's supposed to be which is ah a tool. It's um, a way to make things better. Doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't use it to um to streamline systems like I'm a big proponent of Kiosks I think they're fantastic I'm also a big proponent of having someone next to the kiosk to make sure people aren't getting tripped up and make sure that there is a human touch and so I love that? um. 32:09.35 caroline Are. 32:19.96 vigorbranding So this has been absolutely fantastic I think I have to hit you with 1 final probably the toughest question in the world which is if you had 1 final meal. Um, and wait times were not a factor. What would you eat where and why. 32:35.97 caroline I love this question. Um, so this one's a little nostalgic for me because it's not a meal that I would can go to a restaurant and get but um, it would have to be my grandmother's new year's day meal and just a little southern. Southern ah information that you can learn in the south. We're super superstitious about days like new year's and so the whole meal revolves around certain little traditions but my grandmother was an amazing cook. Um, so you would always have collards and colards represent your money. You would always have black eyeed peas and that represents luck and then you would always have some kind of pork but she did an amazing fried pork chop and that was supposed to represent like prosperity and progress and so to me that's the perfect southern meal and. My grandmother is no longer with us every year I try to replicate that meal and it's just not quite right? So I would I would pay a lot of money to get the opportunity to eat that meal again and see you know that I would wait time I would pay money I would do all the things. 33:43.79 vigorbranding Um, I absolutely love that. Yeah, it's a fantastic answer and one of the things I love about that question in general is the broad diversity of answers you get and um, all of them are 100% um, powerful and memorable in my opinion which the final meal absolutely should be um, Caroline. Thank you for being so amazing with your time and your insights and kind of opening the doors of tuplelow honey as well as your own thinking. Um, how should people connect with you and the brand. 33:57.85 caroline Um, yes. 34:11.85 caroline Ah, you can find me on Linkedin and you can find our brand on too below honeycafe.com we're also on Instagram under the same handle. So and hopefully coming to a city near you. 34:22.75 vigorbranding Um I Love it. Check the show notes for those links folks and thank you again.

JUICER is bringing dynamic pricing to the restaurant industry. Together with their customers who operate more than 4,000 restaurants across the globe, JUICER is applying machine learning algorithms to help restaurants optimize their digital menu pricing. Carl is also the co-author of “Delivering the Digital Restaurant,” a book that explores the world of off premise food and the massive disruption facing American restaurants through first-hand accounts of restaurateurs, food industry veterans, and start up entrepreneurs. Dynamic pricing in the restaurant industry can mean lowering prices to increase traffic during slow hours, increasing prices for specific menu items to reflect changes in ingredient costs, or increasing prices for all menu items during peak hours, peak days or peak seasons. The result is a pricing model that ensures the right time for each sales channel to optimize a restaurant's profitability and the guest experience. JUICER's focus – for now – is on off-premise dynamic pricing, where the adjustment of prices is easler. On-premise dynamic pricing is more difficult (because of menus with fixed, printed prices) but will be more likely in the future. QUOTES “What JUICER is trying to do is become a full-service solution. We take 12 months of transactional data, put that through our algorithm, come up with recommended prices based on different times of day, and then our team will implement those price changes.” (Carl) “Consumers today are already experiencing dynamic pricing on DoorDash and Uber Eats. The delivery prices will change. The challenge is, restaurants aren't getting any of the upside of that dynamism.” (Carl) “The challenge of dynamic pricing as a term can be somewhat divisive. What we're doing at JUICER is completely avoiding anything related to surge pricing. We're talking about relatively small changes in prices that don't cause a negative reaction. In many ways, the customer doesn't even notice many of the price changes.” (Carl) “There's only one Taylor Swift. In a marketplace, there are hundreds of other pizza places that you can go to.” (Carl) “The whole idea of delivering the digital restaurant is to help restaurants understand that they have to optimize their off-premise channel. It's far more than just turning yourself on DoorDash or Uber Eats and letting those channels run themselves.” (Carl) TRANSCRIPT 00:00.41 vigorbranding Everyone today I am joined by my new friend Carl Orsburn it's oars burn or born say with me everyone um, all joking aside Carl. Thanks for taking time out of your day and your week hang out with me while you say hello and for those that don't know you give a little bit of backstory. 00:17.53 Carl Orsbourn Thanks! Thanks! Jo really good to be here and glad we get to spend a few few minutes together today. Um yes, I'm Carl Osborne I'm the co co-founder at juicer a dynamic pricing company for restaurants. But so. A lot of people know me from my first book that I wrote with Meredith Sandland delivering the digital restaurant that book became a bit of a bests selller and really um, cemented I think my kind of presence in the industry and been out to talk about restaurant digitization before that I was over at kitchen united helping. Ghost kitchen world gets settled helped build out their operating model and before even that I was in the seas storell world I used to run ah a thousand unit um franchise business by the name of ampm a billion dollars worth of revenue about 400000000 of it was food but in a very different and somewhat more stagnated industry and so. But I moved over to the startup space I was really excited into talking about more innovative type themes and everything that we're probably going to get into today. 01:19.20 vigorbranding That's brilliant. So ah, admittedly I didn't know about your C-s store stint ah probably more than a stint but I will wax about that for a second I grew up with ampms and ah I thought. 01:29.58 Carl Orsbourn How well. 01:35.68 vigorbranding That apm was what you called convenience source like because I grew up with it so growing up it was go to the apm because where we just said ap like dropped off the m too much too many letters. Um, and so I think I was maybe like 18 or 19 before I realized that. 01:42.12 Carl Orsbourn Yep yep. 01:52.62 vigorbranding Oh no, that's actually a brand name. That's not what you call C stores that's or like convenience stores. So for me, it was synonymous like band-aid instead of ahesive strip. It was the same thing. Um, so that's kind of wonderful and I think there's a whole world that we could talk about with C stores. Maybe not. We'll see if we get to it. But. 01:55.66 Carl Orsbourn Wow, That's interesting. 02:10.81 vigorbranding You know there is a discussion to be had around sea store's encroachment into the ah fast food and in quick service space and some of them are are doing a fantastic job of it. But what I really want to dig into first and foremost is dynamic ricing because you of course are a proselytizer you you have an entire company talking about it. 02:18.87 Carl Orsbourn Dot com. 02:30.13 vigorbranding And I I Want to say I'm a naysayer I'm just highly skeptical and I think I really want to dig into. Let's talk about the good side of it. Um, so before we you know butt heads against why don't you for the listeners try to clearly define What is dynamic pricing in the restaurant industry. Clear up the misconceptions. 02:51.27 Carl Orsbourn Yeah, look. It's it's a really interesting subject and I think you're right? It is quite divisive. Um, it's quite divisive just as ah as a theme and so before I give you my version of a definition. Let me tell you what I think our vision is surprising because we we see enormous opportunity to. To bring pricing science to restaurants and that's that's way before anything we get into around price dynamism right? So pricing. Let we know is tremendously complex. It's ah, a discipline it requires expertise in data science. It requires access to lots of market data the ability to quantify how changes in price affect demand. And these are not disciplines I think it's fair to say that have historically been part of the restaurant industry I think it's fair to say that most restaurants price using a blunt instrument and if you on where they want to be perhaps positioned against relative to the competition and a desired you know gp so you know with with due to what we're excited to bring. Our experience on working on these problems and my co-founders are these clairvoyance Joseph because they herald from the travel and hotel industry where they've seen all this stuff play out and not a week goes by without them saying yes but we've seen this happen before let me tell you how this is going to play out and it's always funks. We we riff on it a bit so so restaurants now have this kind of opportunity to use these tools. Um because the industry is undergoing to see a change. You know how it interacts with diners or everything I've talked about in my books um and and restaurants are for intents and purposes now an e-commerce category. Um. 04:22.20 Carl Orsbourn Fact that menus are presented as pixels on a screen not printed pages gives us far more flexibility than in the past and so I think that insight that restaurants can capitalize on this change in consumer interaction is giving us a more sophisticated idea about how they can price and that's very much at the heart of our vision Producer. So. How does dynamic pricing fit into this framework. Well for me, it's It's just a fancy way to say we measure Consumer demand and use algorithms to match prices to demand at that point in time. 04:54.92 vigorbranding So I think so that makes sense so there's a prerequisite though right? like you said you're going to have to know what those outside influences are so you can affect the pricing in real-time and of course you need. Digital menu boards that are more than just a I'm going to make a joke but a fire stickk stuck in the back of a Tv screen. Um, which you know for the the do it yourself as I've seen that happen many times but essentially what ends up manifesting though is pricing that changes. 05:13.51 Carl Orsbourn A. 05:28.14 vigorbranding I wouldn't say in real time right? I mean it happens in real time, but it's not like it's not like a stock ticker like as I'm in line I'm watching the price fluctuate from $2 for a cheap hamburger to $25 because of the outside influences. Um what what rate? or um. 05:33.87 Carl Orsbourn All right. 05:45.23 vigorbranding But kind of fluctuation have you seen or do you anticipate with it like what are the updates. What are the refreshes is it daily is it hourly when we're talking about the fluctuations and in dynamic rising. 05:55.27 Carl Orsbourn Yeah, couple couple of things in answer to that because the first thing I'd say is we are focused on off-premise transactions first so you talk about this idea of standard in line and digital menu boards I think that is to come. But I think the industry has to move a little further down the line before we start to see that becoming a major area of focus when it comes to dynamic pricing probably for all the reasons as to why you you might be a bit of a skeptic on the subject right? because for me the opportunity exists today and off-premise because consumers today are already experiencing dynamic pricing. On da dash and uber breeds right? The delivery fees will change. You. You are empowering the customer to say if you want to pay an extra $3 I can get it to you within 20 minutes as opposed to the advertise 40 minutes the challenge is restaurants aren't getting any of the upside of that dynamism today. That's all going into the marketplaces and so. Something here about really just trying to recognize that. How do you actually find the best way to introduce something like this into a part of the industry that is already experiencing it. But you know for me consumers are ah more sophisticated than they often get credit for you know dynamic or demand-based pricing is. Built on the the well-understood intuition that products are more expensive when there's a high demand for a product right? Um, restaurants have been doing this for ages Joseph. You know if we at happy hour em menus right? There's any diner need clarification when a drink or appetizer is less expensive before six zero Pm of course not 07:13.10 vigorbranding Um, sure. 07:21.19 vigorbranding Ah, right. 07:23.19 Carl Orsbourn Know that the restaurant's less busy and they're going to try and drum up more demand for it. So I think it's trying to work alongside those forces and try to help restaurants actually support. What is their lowest Margin channel. 07:35.84 vigorbranding Yeah I mean so that's a great analogy or or a great example I should say um and you're right? The prices do fluctuate then I think the most restaurants are banking on can I keep them here past the happy Hour Marker. So I can start to realize my margin. And and I Also agree I think Dynamic dynamic pricing um could be really fantastic from the monetary spreadsheet level of restaurant brands I think where I start where my yellow flags I Only call them red flags because I'm super interested or else I would have I don't want to talk about it right? like I'm like I'm already set I'm ah pretty malleable on it. 08:06.70 Carl Orsbourn 7 08:11.29 vigorbranding But I think the challenges that we have to overcome is um, the the brand experience that's not me being a carpenter and only seeing nails. Um, and what I'm getting at is if we take other industries that have adopted dynamic pricing that everyone's familiar with like otas. Ah. You know, um in in the travel industry so online travel agents I think is what that stands for which is kind of silly. But um, you know so like Expedia and the aggregators and things like that and anyone that has tried to book a flight and is trying to look for different options and you realize oh my original flight just went up in price. 08:34.34 Carl Orsbourn Yeah. 08:50.16 Carl Orsbourn And. 08:50.66 vigorbranding Which is really funny and not cool at all. Um, that becomes a frustration point for me as a consumer the other layer not to pile it on but I'm going to is if if we use hotels. Let's say as the model. 09:08.32 vigorbranding The hotel still gets the benefit of managing the brand experience when the person walks through the door. We don't have that with delivery as restaurants. So yes, we do want to realize more money but I think one of the issues outside of the the fees and all the other gripes that we hear. 09:12.64 Carl Orsbourn And. 09:26.57 vigorbranding 1 of the issues with that third -party delivery mechanism is we have no control over how good or bad. The service is We're just a machine you gave us money I made your burger. That's all I can do. So we're actually losing the things that add value incrementally. To pricing. So for instance, mcdonald's hamburger versus ah shakeshack versus choose your gourmet burger brand whatever you know? Um, yeah, there's quality ingredients and things like that. But part of it is the touch right? It's the the way it's presented the way it's delivered. The. 09:53.16 Carl Orsbourn It. 10:04.86 vigorbranding The the smile or lack thereof hotels get that opportunity. You know. So if you decide that you're going to spend a little bit more money for a hotel and you walk in you get the greeting. You get the high. You know the white glove even though they're physically not there anymore but like the white Glove Bell hoppy experience for more money. But if you took all of that away. It really does become a commodity I Think that's my worry is commoditization of restaurant brands meaning brands don't really matter any longer. It's just quality of products and that's it I was a lot sorry. 10:33.72 Carl Orsbourn Ah, really one ah lot a lot in that a couple of things. Um, first of all, you mentioned like airlines and the number of price changes what we're finding right now is is at most 2 or 3 changes a day so just to give you an idea that we're not talking about. And I don't think it will ever get there quite honestly where you see that mid-transaction and that change of price because. 10:56.38 vigorbranding So so so hold on hold on and I'm sorry what I'm getting I just so we're clear like literally if I'm on delta.com sorry Delta I love you. But I hate you too. Um I search for flight from Atlanta to to Phoenix because we're talking about our rlc right now. Um. Boom. Okay, hey it's ah, $1200 a first class because you know how I roll um, but then I well maybe maybe I want to go at 11 a m instead of 8 am m okay I look at the price. No not so much I come back to my 8 a m boom. It's gone up. 11:29.29 Carl Orsbourn He's gone. Yeah yeah, and look I'll give you one even worse right? Um, what about when Katrina happened right? and everyone didn't have a home and they had to go into these hotels and the hotels at 40500% price increases right. 11:31.13 vigorbranding That's what I'm like yeah that's the the reference. 11:44.31 vigorbranding Oh yep, Yeah yeah, yep. 11:46.87 Carl Orsbourn That's where I mean Taylor Swift ticket master right? right? if we want to go to an even more recent example that that's where the challenge of dynamic pricing as a term becomes somewhat you know, divisive and and I think it's an understandably so there's another term that. Someone closer to our industry started to create and that's uber and they came up with the term search pricing right? which is kind of in in this whole space it what we're doing at juicer is completely avoiding anything to do with search pricing. The pizza will never be 400 % and what we do with our approach is that we. We asked the restaurant. What is the range that you would like to operate within and it might be minus ten to plus 15 but that means the price only ever moves in between those zones. So what we're talking about here are relatively small movements in price. Don't create that level of negative reaction and as I say in terms of the amount of price changes. Not not a huge plentiful amount so you don't get to that delta example that you're mentioning before so in many ways the customer doesn't really even notice a lot of these changes. In fact, when we start putting our pricing in place. We do a few things. 12:44.54 vigorbranding Um, is. 12:59.86 Carl Orsbourn Because guest sentiment is absolutely central to the way in which we approach this and so before we do any pricing. We do a scan of every single reference to the customer voice in that particular restaurant unit looking for words like expensive or too pricey and anything affiliated to value. And then we look at ratings and then we monitor that all the way through any pricing activity so that we can see if there has been a reaction in terms of the customer voice now you could say well that's fine for those that leave a review but many will just vote with their feet so we also of course monitor volumes and we do diff on diff analysis. And we have test locations and control locations to accommodate any macro changes in the environment to really try and give a clear identification of the uplift we're able to demonstrate and what we've been had to do so far. Joseph is. We've been out to see a lift of somewhere between five and seven percent of off-premise margins without any detrimental effect on traffic and without any detrimental effect on gas sentiment and I think the reason for that is twofold 1 is because of the micro changes. We discussed. You know it's not huge levels of changes. It's just trying to optimize in a certain small area at different times of day and then secondly. I think a lot of this is actually to do with what I mentioned at the start and that is just getting the base price in right helping restaurants really understand what is the willingness to pay for a certain item for a customer and the last thing I'll mention on this is I write for for nations restaurant news with Meredith um every month or two and. 14:22.30 vigorbranding Here here. 14:31.69 Carl Orsbourn We had an article last summer that came out around throttling and I think this is one of the the hidden diseases in off-premise right now because throttling is something where you're you know, closing your virtual doors to your customers because your kitchen can't cope with the amount of demand that they're facing. It's almost like. 14:44.57 vigorbranding Um, right? um. 14:48.27 Carl Orsbourn Ah, good problem to have right? and you've got so many orders coming in but you can't cope with them so you're going to focus on your higher margin channels and that's the logic of why a lot of technology companies have built throttle it but that is perhaps the first time a new guest is discovering your restaurant same as like having ah an abusive price by the way you know if they see a bad price on a menu. 15:01.70 vigorbranding Right. 15:07.91 Carl Orsbourn Like you go wow that place is expensive I'm not going to go there for date night on Saturday even if they're just thinking about a launch third -party experience on this particular occasion. So so for me here. The the point is is how do you create a situation where everyone is free. Having a benefit of dynamic pricing. How do you actually empower the guest so they feel that they have a choice you know if they really want to eat from your restaurant on a friday night at seven p m when your restaurant is at its busiest and they have to pay an extra fifty sixty cents for that item. As opposed to it being completely shut down and not available at all. What would you rather do and similarly if we can get to a world and I think we will get to this type of world where you then can incentivize and almost train the guest to be able to say well if you order a head or if you order up six zero p m on that friday night you can actually get it for a slightly cheaper price. 15:44.27 vigorbranding A. 16:01.14 Carl Orsbourn Isn't that actually empowering the guest isn't actually empowering the restaurant to keep their guest happier by letting them have their control. That's where I think we're going to have a better experience. Overall. 16:12.44 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah I don't I don't fully disagree at all like I again I think there's there's still impediments. Obviously we're not in a perfect world and and idealism is rarely ah realized um but you actually just did spark something in my head with with the ah the throttling and all that. 16:30.50 vigorbranding While we're thinking embarking on this dynamic pricing opportunity. We've already experienced dynamic timing as a good and bad thing. Ah by by the very nature of time and how busy a kitchen gets right? so. Um, what I mean by that is you use Friday night at seven P M bro try to get a pizza delivered. You know I mean like it's going to take you anywhere from 60 to 90 minutes sometimes depending on where you are and what city you're in and that's just happening by the very nature of traffic. So it's it's it's dynamic timing right? So I know if I want to get a good pizza for Friday night I probably should get that order in at five P M so that actually tracks and makes a lot of sense now I'll maybe contradict myself here because um, I'll contradict myself but I do see it from the restaurant's perspective fully. And I've seen it because you know being being ah on the marketing side I've always tried to include operations as a part of the conversation and have a voice at the table. It's important. Um, what I think people consumers I hate that word but I'll use it. Consumers don't realize is how much. 17:30.33 Carl Orsbourn And. 17:41.31 vigorbranding Money has been taken on the chin by restaurant brands like it takes a lot for them to decide to move their price. You know so they'll they'll absorb a lot of costs. They'll eat into their own profit margins to prevent even a fifteen cent increment so when you start talking about the percentages of like the 10 to 15% plus minus that makes a lot more sense than maybe ah, a pure dynamic pricing in real-time jump allah miss swift. 18:07.74 Carl Orsbourn So yeah, yeah, absolutely and look. There's there's only a certain amount of seats on a plane or in a a theater right? or in ah, an arena so it becomes um, a little bit of an easier science I suggest in that regard if that's something that you want to do but also. There's only one Taylor Swift on a marketplace. There are hundreds of other pizza placess that you can go to and so that's the challenge today and look you you mentioned something earlier on I'll put my author hat back on for a second if I may and and that is. 18:41.20 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 18:43.72 Carl Orsbourn You know the whole idea of delivering the digital restaurant and at some point I'll tell you about the new book. But the the whole idea of it is to help restaurants understand that they have to optimize their Off-premise Channel It's It's far more than just turning yourself on on door dash or uber eats and just let them let that kind of channel run itself and off you go. 19:00.32 vigorbranding Right. 19:03.85 Carl Orsbourn Don't think guests have said anything particularly good about the off-premise experience in recent times. In fact, I'd go as fast to say that the guest experience for off-premise today has never been worse because guests aren't getting their food in the time that it was promised the quality of the food isn't. 19:14.13 vigorbranding Right. 19:22.88 Carl Orsbourn As good as they perhaps would expect in an on-premise occasion and ultimately the biggest issue that's happening with off-premise today is the accuracy of whether the order was indeed fulfilled correctly is it the right items is it. You know as per the spec that they request it. So. 19:36.68 vigorbranding Um, right. 19:39.93 Carl Orsbourn You know there's this thing here to be able to say well most restaurants today are putting on a threshold increase onto their third -party prices and even the door dashes of this world are sending notes out to restaurants that are going beyond a certain threshold to say look if you keep doing this. We're going to reduce your presence on the platforms and reduce your appearance if you will. Which is ah another entire subject. We should. We can talk about but the point is is if that's happening then the guest is saying well I'm paying this much more and I'm given an inferior product as a result and I think all that's going to lead to is customers. They've become even more switched on. 20:11.63 vigorbranding Um. 20:17.92 Carl Orsbourn To be allowed to know which restaurants can they rely upon which ones are able to do this consistently which ones are actually changing their operating system to be able to make sure they do get a better experience and so price is a function of value but the experience all those table touches and things you were mentioned in your earlier question. Are very much still central to it and you know in in delivering the digital restaurant. We talked about how gig workers are for intents and purposes your new server. Do you remember that chap sir Joseph you know that that that one was all about when I was going out as a door dash driver myself and feeling terribly treated by the restaurants that I went into. 20:46.79 vigorbranding Um, yep, yep. 20:56.18 Carl Orsbourn You know? and maybe so maybe understandably so because I was taking tips away from their staff and things like that. But but but um, the point is is that if you embrace those drivers if you give them samples of your new items on the menu if you give them a free cup of coffee or allow them to use your restrooms. They are going to to more likely more likely. Not definitely but more likely. 20:58.22 vigorbranding Sure yeah. 21:16.13 Carl Orsbourn Be, a better proponent of your brand and give the guests that they're servicing on on your behalf a better experience and so there are little bits and pieces that need to happen in that regard to try and bring more elements of digital hospitality into off-premise. But ultimately. It's the operation. The operation needs to get Better. We been now to do things to a better quality on time and more accurately and all of that's going to play into whether customers see they get value from this or not. 21:43.82 vigorbranding Yeah, what? what was the brand I want to say it was chipotle but I don't want to ah missattribute this where they they created a whole delivery driver experience for them to wait and hang out. It's kind of was kind of a lounge I think it was in New York um 21:55.95 Carl Orsbourn Ah, Buka Depeo Buca Depeo had a bit of reference to this in in the news a few months ago. But I think there were a few that are starting to do it so it wouldn't surprise me that partly I doing it as well. 22:05.80 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah, it makes sense I'm surprised inspire brands hasn't done it either I mean they've invested so much in this innovation center here in Atlanta on the west side. Um there's definitely the space for it. Um I think that's something it makes a lot of sense. You have to start treating them as such but then I think that starts to. Makes some folks in the c-suite a little cringy considering the back and forth pendulum swing that we see with labor ownership and things like that like you you treat them too. Nice are you starting to blur the lines right? and you know we know how that goes. Um. 22:31.92 Carl Orsbourn Yeah, well But then you've got these first party logistics software platforms. You know like cartwheel that are out there that are allowing you now to try and figure out how you wish to service different diners. You know, perhaps your most loyal diners with your better drivers from your own fleet. So there are. There are ways and means by which you know technology is enabling you to give the best service to your most valuable customers. 22:51.10 vigorbranding Um. 22:56.96 vigorbranding Yeah I believe ah Romo is on the forefront of that as well. We had Alan Hickey on the show a little while ago. Um, proud Scotsman he's gonna hate me for that. No, he's he's definitely proud. He's the proudest scotsman there ever was. 23:02.68 Carl Orsbourn Um, yeah Irish my Irishman ah he'll hate that you. 23:11.23 vigorbranding I do this every every so often. Some of the episodes just see if Allen's listening um and you know when I'm when I'm in person and I do run into him I'll say it again. It's it's an ongoing joke. But yes, he is an irishman and he is wonderful. Gracious guest but they're doing great things. So um. 23:23.55 Carl Orsbourn So. 23:28.36 vigorbranding Thanks for digging in so much into this I feel like there's so much to still unpack and and I am really excited about where you're going with Juicer which is the company that you founded to essentially tackle this thing head on. Can you tell me a little bit about juicer before we shift gears and talk about the the new book and even the original book. 23:45.60 Carl Orsbourn So yeah, so so Juicer has been around for a year and a half my my co-founders as I mentioned earlier have come from the travel hospitality space. In fact, our technical co-founder Marco he he builds a company called Duetto which is one of the 2 remaining platforms that help hotels dynamically price. But the difference the difference I think between hotels and restaurants beyond what we've already discussed is that hotels have revenue managers as part of the team as part of the property team restaurants don't so what juice is trying to do is become a full service solution and so we take twelve months worth of data transactional data. Put that through our algorithm come up with recommended prices based on the different times of day as we've discussed and then our team will implement those price changes so we we get given that range we talked about maybe the minus ten to the plus 15% and that's it the restaurant hands us the keys and then we report back to them the revenue up if we've been out to generate. Yeah, sentiment analysis. The volume analysis and a way we go from there. It's as simple as that now it sounds simple but there's a lot of complexity behind the actual algorithm as you can imagine. But also there's this piece that um is a complexity that affects many restaurant technology companies and that is integrations. Very early on into my tenure I said to the team look if we have to wait to build integrations with every pos out there. This is going to be a very difficult thing to be able to implement and what we're trying to do is to try and help brashchnault see the upside of our approach so that their voice can go to their technology partners to help. 25:19.37 Carl Orsbourn Build the necessary integrations because we have teams in India in Mexico and in Brazil that are actually making these price changes manually today and that's that's like wow what what does that? you sure that's the right way of doing it. Well it is because that way we've got more assuredness that it's going to happen and b it demonstrates the uplift. And then also the restaurants are going to have the louder voice in helping the tech companies see why they need this as part of their technology platforms. It's also adopting I don't know whether you've heard this term before but headless commerce um salesforce I think introduced it. But for those of you are your listeners that haven't heard of that. It's it's all for instance, all intents and purposes. It's a bit like ah a Chrome plugin right? as opposed to being Chrome or another piece of technology to add into the tech stack. Um, it's actually said no we want to be almost like a white label solution that sits on top of your current technology providers that supports you when you are ready for dynamic pricing. 25:58.80 vigorbranding Um. 26:12.10 Carl Orsbourn And I think that's really really important for many technology leaders out there to consider because the problem today is that restaurants have got so many technology solutions to choose from. They've got some folks that are out there saying oh we do it all. We do all, we're an all in one solution which isn't true and the other are those that are very specialist in other regards and so it's very difficult for The average restaurant owner-erator who let's face it remember that they didn't get into this industry because they love technology. They love food. They love hospital hospitality. They love seeing the smiles in their guest faces. Those are the reasons they got into it and so technology is a necessary efor if you will to to support the the business and where it is today. And so therefore we're trying to make things easier I think by building the company in this regard it it also then means the procurement practice is also a little easier as well and been able to find the necessary clients. So we we we certainly go direct out to restaurants. But also we're building partnerships with the lights of oracle with it a checkmate and others. To try and have that automated nature so we don't actually have to have manual teams implemented it but the best thing about it. Is it just it helps restaurants have this pricing capability without affecting anyone on the ground and because it's just off-premise focus. It doesn't really create any distraction for them. 27:25.63 vigorbranding That's great. Yeah I mean I think the the future obviously would be um, some sort of on-prem Maybe maybe with less real-time you know, maybe it happens on the weekly or things like that. But it needs it needs to happen for the restaurants in order for restaurants to thrive. Um. 27:35.48 Carl Orsbourn Yeah. 27:42.54 vigorbranding I'm always going to be the ultimate defender of the people or at least the brand experience. You know So How do you make sure that it's delivered in a way that isn't going to negatively affect the Brand's experience but like like you have said and I've even attitudes like the brand experience is already under threat and there are a lot of negative experiences happening. Um. This probably isn't going to.. It's it's pales in comparison like if everything was perfect and you're dropping a dynamic pricing model. Um outside of the even the 15 or 10 then maybe there's a conversation but I'm actually more more interested on the technology side like what's going to be done with packaging and how how can. Our delivery vehicles be ah, fitted with cold and hot areas to to keep food as good as possible. Um packaging that holds in the heat without sweat things like that like it makes French fries Such a bummer man. 28:29.70 Carl Orsbourn Um. 28:36.27 Carl Orsbourn Um, well look in our first book. Um, one of the chaps is was called why pizza works and it was when there was a bunch of references in to think about the amount of science and innovation that's happened to the pizza box right? So from the 4 little vents around the edge. 28:41.67 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 28:48.55 vigorbranding Absolutely. 28:52.48 Carl Orsbourn That little thing you'll probably tell me Joseph if whatever the little thing is in the middle and then the little trade that it sits on you know all of those little components are to ensure that when a pizza arrives at your front door. It's in the best condition possible and so you're absolutely right. Packaging is very much. It's vital with your marketing hat on. 29:03.79 vigorbranding Um, that's right. 29:09.15 Carl Orsbourn There's a great third party. The first party conversion angle on the packaging but there's also a quality angle to it as well. 29:14.88 vigorbranding yeah yeah I think there's there's so much room for growth and this is one of those permanent pivots. So one of the other things that happened. Um so I've mentioned this so many times on the show and I apologize to listeners. But. Back in 2019 I had the opportunity to speak at the fed summit ah held by restaurant design development design magazine great group of people over there at Zumba group. Um, and I predicted a lot of things that are happening now not because I'm a genius but because I know how to read and what I didn't predict was the acceleration that would be brought on by. Pandemic. Um, what's great is a lot of the things that we're talking about now and a lot of things that you covered in the first book that you and Meredith Pennd haven't had a chance to read the second one? sorry um, have come to fruition and and we are. It's no longer this sluggish. Dip the toe. Maybe the second toe into the water we are full plunge into digital transformation and that is essentially the topic of your you and Meredith's work in general from all your thought leadership. So can you give maybe like a quick hit on the first book. 30:09.13 Carl Orsbourn And. 30:20.40 Carl Orsbourn Yep. 30:24.20 vigorbranding Why why? it's interesting. Why people should grab it and then I want to make sure you have enough time to talk about this second book because I didn't give meritdiff any time to talk about it and I still feel bad about it. 30:29.28 Carl Orsbourn Yeah, and absolutely well it is a sequel to delivering the digital restaurant your roadmap to the future of food that was the name of the first book and and that was written in the early days of the pandemic. You know we were into the outline. Think we spoke to a big publisher and they said yeah, we'll get this out but it'll be 2022 and we went ah this this is happening right now restaurants need this so we had to go through our hybrid publishing path. Um and we wrote it to help restaurants see the why behind digitization but being you know off-premise and. 30:53.21 vigorbranding Are. 31:03.45 Carl Orsbourn But consumers are hungry for better ways to engage with restaurants and then it wasn't the evil tech companies or vcs forcing the change to happen but it was the consumer that was driving this to happen and of course timing couldn't have been better for us in in writing and given that book out of that time. The book came ah international bestseller. It's. Just got the romanian restaurant association would you believe agreed to translate it into romanian so I wasn't thinking the first foreign language translation would be romanian. But thank you Romania but you know the the fact that at this time in 21 every restaurant became a ghost kitchen overnight. They were forced to embrace digitization to survive and. 31:25.43 vigorbranding Um, that's amazing. Yeah. 31:38.94 Carl Orsbourn It really was a spray and prayy type approach just to keep in business but the second book you know now we're in a different phase restaurants are spending somewhere between two and four percent of revenue on technology I'd hasten to guess that they're spend in about across 15 to 20 different pieces of technology. And those different pieces of technology are probably just not being used to their optimal capability and they're certainly not talking to each other these different technologies in a way that restaurants really want them to so so our new book is called delivering the digital restaurant the path to digital maturity. 32:03.20 vigorbranding Right. 32:13.64 Carl Orsbourn And it's with the pandemic in the rearview mirror. We we believe that restaurants are now in a place where they're trying to consolidate their focus. You know where they want to deploy their resources where they want to deploy concentrated efforts to build the the right foundations that support a digital transformation because we're still in it right? We're still in the trenches on transforming this industry digitally. 32:22.51 vigorbranding Um. 32:33.59 Carl Orsbourn And restaurants are I think are are now largely moving on from begrudgingly accepting off-premise channels where they were did now see them as a vital part of the restaurant growth agenda. But many restaurants have that kind of scattergun focus as I mentioned and so I think many now have ah. Got solutions technology solutions because there are so many of them scattered across the entire restaurant ecosystem and they're not really using them to their best potential and so the new book helps restaurants see this path. It explains in a linear fashion where rest structure focus and when and I hope it's going to help them find their place on this path and. And from that give them more confidence on where to focus. You know it's it's a different type of book to the first you'll remember the first it was quite. You know one hundred or so interviews with executives that we spoke to it was ah a little academic if you will very businessy this one's more of a playbook. It's got tips. It's got worksheets at the back of each chapter. So. The the reader can self-ass assess reflect consider the lessons in the context of their own restaurant and through it. Hopefully they can chart their path towards you know, greater maturity and it asks them to consider some serious questions of themselves and you know it leads towards um, a new restaurant category that we believe is emerging. Um, a category that we think is going to represent some of the highest levels of growth available in the industry but the the title of that chapter when we discuss that is called disrupt yourself and it's saying consider how consider how you need to optimize if you had a blank sheet of paper if you were starting your business fresh right now. What would you do and we we introduce this term of the. 34:04.45 Carl Orsbourn Digital native restaurant and the digital native brands and how that is a channel that is going to move more of the costs into food out of labor out of ah out of rent and that everything will be focused on digital and fully focused and off-premise occasions and we think that category. Much like fast casual before it will actually be very very exciting and then we also talk to the technologists much like we've been touching on today. You know anyone in restaurant tech will want to to read the book because if we're really going to help restaurants for each digital maturity. We have to find faster better ways to enable tech tech solutions to talk to each other. In a symbiotic way and or just build our technology operating systems differently. You know a bit like the app store if you go for a restaurant. Could you imagine that? um you know I'd ah um, I'd love to see a world Joseph where where 1 input affects a restaurant. 34:51.40 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 34:58.16 Carl Orsbourn And a symbiotic fashion affecting other functions. You know an interdependability of functionality that that drives better decision-making and and a smoother implementation of change that that today the the average restaurant Gm has to navigate these factors. You know, can you imagine? For example, where if a supplier cost increase comes through there that 1 simple data input change can then have an autonomous effect on recipes inventory management menu build menu optimization pricing training documentation and on and on you know, the example I was using on a podcast. The other day was I imagine you're in a restaurant and two li cooks call out tonight. The Gm has to deal with that today. 35:24.58 vigorbranding Um. 35:35.45 vigorbranding Um, yep. 35:36.80 Carl Orsbourn Like there's no piece of technology that's saying how do I sold for that. So imagine if that technology could then talk to opentable to restrict the amount of table reservations or talk to juicer and increase the off-prem prices a little bit more as opposed to just talking to 7 shifts and payroll systems. You know that's the way in which technology needs to evolve. 35:49.38 vigorbranding Right. 35:55.15 Carl Orsbourn So that we can help restaurants really optimize the experience not just for off-premise but for on-premise as well, right? So the book is quite practical in that regard I think seventy to eighty percent of restaurants are probably in the first 2 chapters where we talk about third -party optimization and converting them to first. But. As I've touched on you know it goes into a bit more of the futurist stuff as we get towards the end. 36:15.90 vigorbranding Yeah, that's pretty awesome. Ah, the first book was great read. Ah it is I definitely turn the pages yellow with my highlighter. Um I'm one of those I still read the physical book and still highlight things. Um, so I can only imagine the second one is going to be even better I wrote an article about. 36:22.37 Carl Orsbourn So. 36:33.89 vigorbranding Removing the word pivot I'd like to commend you for not using that word. Um, mainly because pivoting keeps you anchored with one foot and I think that's what you're talking about with disrupting yourself I think ah what ends up happening especially the larger you get is making those cataclysmic um shifts. 36:38.85 Carl Orsbourn Move. 36:51.35 vigorbranding Requires you to lift the foot. It can't be a pivot. Um, it has to be movement forward. It has to be a change of direction or a narrowing of focus or or a mix of both and so many leaders are just crippled by the fear of what that means of unsementing one of your feet in order to go because if you keep your foot planted. You really can only go so far before you've stretched too too thin and then you have a young more agile company that will easily surpass you or or at least have ah have a competitive edge in their agility to do so um and so I think it's such a fantastic time to be a part of this industry with everything that's happening. Um I will say that. You have nudged me closer to an advocate of ah at least? Yeah yeah, it's a few steps closer I would say it's equivalent to the number of steps closer that Meredith got me on the topic of gas ranges versus ah induction heat. 37:31.60 Carl Orsbourn Yeah I'll take you I'll take that for today. Ah. 37:47.91 vigorbranding Ranges that are digital. Um I will still fight to to the death over my gas range at home. But I really appreciate the insights and I know there's so much more I mean man I had so many things that I wanted to ask you but I also like to keep these around the 30 minute Mark so 37:48.13 Carl Orsbourn Ah. 37:54.51 Carl Orsbourn Yeah, yeah. 38:04.92 vigorbranding Ah, like I said to meredith. Maybe maybe we should just do the first ever 3 person podcast we have you and her on it. We can just really start to dig into some of these topicics together because I don't think this conversation stops today. 38:12.67 Carl Orsbourn And I'd love that now. I'd love that I mean we we set out to do this to help the industry and so hopefully our our 2 books do that and I think podcasts like your angels are very much part of that journey as well. So we're all in it together and I think the more we. We talk about these things the more we're going to help the industry move forward to. 38:31.87 vigorbranding Absolutely so I have 1 final question. It's the hardest 1 ever and then I'll get you to drop some plugs on where to buy the book and and where to find juicer. So first the the most difficult question in the world if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat. 38:47.51 Carl Orsbourn Um. 38:48.69 vigorbranding Ah, where would you eat it and why. 38:50.48 Carl Orsbourn Well this one kind of comes back to one of my favorite dining experiences of my life so far and in many ways. It's not so much about the food. The food was freshly caught fish but this was about I'd say half a mile three quarters of a mile. By a dragon boat off the shores of pouquette Thailand and I went out in this dragon boat and there's this floating pontoon which they've built and there are some tables on top of this flob at this pontoon and in the middle. There's a a hole where they give you a net and they say choose your dinner and you you put the net in you choose the fish. 39:26.55 vigorbranding Um, oh well. 39:29.83 Carl Orsbourn And then they cooked the fish and I remember sitting there with my wife and overlooking the the kind of Hills of pouette. The sun was setting. It was beautiful and um I think that goes to show about just how occasions and moments like that are just as important as the quality of the food as well. So I'd probably go with something like that. 39:47.82 vigorbranding Yeah I would not blame you that it that sounds amazing. Um, great answer, great answer. Um, where is the preferred place to pick up the books. 39:56.77 Carl Orsbourn Well you see this comes back to third party first party if you like third parties and the and the flexibility that comes with them Amazon of course has a Kindle version a hardback a paperback the the audio book is read by me. It's going to be out a month or so from now. So Amazon of course is the place to go to for that. Ah, but if you want to support first party then you can head to ww.thetheboommis side again wwdot delivering the digitalrest dot com and there you'll be able to get a copy of a book or if you'd like to get a case of books for your team or for clients then that's the place to get discounted copies in bulk as well. So. Deliveringthe digitalrest.com for first party and we also have our own podcast there that we put out every couple of weeks called the digital restaurant where we we just have ten fifteen minutes between Meredith and myself talking about 5 of the top articles affecting off-premise technology and restaurants and so that's another place where. Your podcast listeners to heads if they're interested. Okay. 40:51.32 vigorbranding I that's great guys. Go first party I know Amazon's convenient it's awesome but look it puts more money in alls pocket pockets when you go first party I should know I prefer people to go to my website to get my book. But yeah I understand conveniences oftentimes the winner. Um, and then juicer how can we connect with juicer. 41:09.78 Carl Orsbourn So great. Well with juicy you can obviously reach out to me on Linkedin but our website isjuicerpriccing.com and there you'd be able to fill out an inquiry I would love to chat to you with particularly focus right now on restaurant groups of 20 units or more. Um, but if you've got an off-premise business that's sizable I think we can help you so I'd love to hear from you. 41:30.39 vigorbranding Brilliant. Thanks so much for your insights again. Ah thirty forty minutes is just not enough time and we'll have to do this again very soon. 41:36.51 Carl Orsbourn Looking forward to Joseph. Thank you so much.

The first Dog Haus opened in Pasadena, California in 2010. Since then, Dog Haus has expanded to include 91 locations throughout southern California. Dog Haus has garnered critical acclaim and national attention for its signature all beef Haus Dogs and handcrafted proprietary Haus Sausages, as well as its 100% genetically tested, humanely raised, hormone- and antibiotic-free Black Angus beef. Many start-up restaurants rely on a celebrity name to drive consumer interest, which calls into question the quality of the food and expertise of the celebrity when it comes to the offering. Consistency of quality is important. Some restaurant brands don't have standards – or don't clearly define the standards – which means different dining experiences between each location or even at the same location. QUOTES “Our advantage is the quality of the food. It's the product itself.” (Justin) “We are created by people who are very much into food. That's been our goal since day one.” (Justin) “Zeroing in on the quality of the product. That's not a different story. So many brands think their product is ‘the best.' What (Dog Haus provides) is reasons to believe why that's true.” (Joseph) “How do you get someone to pay $8 for a hot dog when Costco sells it for $1.50. That's a unique challenge for us. We do that with high quality ingredients. It's not just a hot dog and you know that when you see it.” (Justin) “Quality matters, especially on delivery.” (Justin) “(Some restaurants) make it as cheap as possible and maximize profitability, get the money and go. I think now more than ever, the delivery game has changed that. After I've paid for delivery fees and that (meal) comes back tasting like garbage, that's horrible.” (Joseph) TRANSCRIPT 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone and today I'm joined by Justin Bartek you probably remember our episode from early on in the fork tales days I had to have him back because so much has changed since then Justin won't you say hello and ah give us a little update on where you've been and where you are now. 00:16.68 Justin Bartek Yeah, man, it's good to see you Joseph as always in the past few months about five months ago now I joined doghouse worldwide which is a hot dog brand but we do smash burgers hot dogs, gourmet sausages breakfast burritos that are actually killing it. Um. And more so it's very exciting to be over here I've sort of been put in a position to help with those virtual brands that they have called the absolute brands. But I'm also you know there's always so much to do that I've been helping with my own connections and background to all across the organization. So. It's been great. 00:50.71 vigorbranding That's awesome. So um, for those don't remember you you used to be at the Ramen company Jinnya I Still go there. Still love their ramen. 00:56.60 Justin Bartek I'm correct. 00:58.38 vigorbranding Um, and as you said now you're in this new position. Jinnya is a brick and mortar. It's full service. Well it's actually fast casual technically there's counters service. You sit down, you're kind of waited on um, whereas doghouse and and especially the virtual brand world completely different. So how has this transition gone from you gone for you and. 01:04.90 Justin Bartek And. 01:18.23 vigorbranding And what are what are some of the biggest challenges in shifting from this company that you're at now from Virginia as well as the format shift. 01:27.51 Justin Bartek Yeah, sure, um, you know when I came here. It's it's kind of a great time to be here and that you know when the doghouse brand started it started in 2010 as well same as Virginia um, but they were they were kind of a fast casual brand. You know it wasn't really about the bar. Yeah, they had beer. They didn't have full liquor licenses at the time they didn't have the doghouse beer garden concept. It was just doghouse so that's kind of our legacy brand at this point and you could imagine ah ah a doghouse like that might be in in an old Taco Bell like the old school Taco Bell that you know from the seventy s that building though. That's where a doghouse could be now. Got doghouse beer gardens. They've got full liquor licenses. They've got patios. They've got games. They've got you know, just much more of a bar experience. So since I've been over here. We've been talking about how to make this brand more bar. Friendly. How do we make it better. How do we. Increase the happy hour. How do we put it in new drinks. How do we? you know like we're really going through that top to bottom and really you know have a beverage committee now we're working with our drink partners like Coca-cola but we're also looking at the alcohol brands and kind of trying to do some bigger things we're doing. Doing milkshakes which we're going to do some spiked ones coming up which is really cool. So like all these things are in development and we're sort of that brand that's known for really like if we get an idea. Maybe we'll make a virtual brand out of it. Maybe we'll put it on our menu. You know we'll see but like they've been doing that over time and it's led to a lot of success. 02:50.65 vigorbranding That's awesome. Yeah, so I mean it's a completely different format even within doghouse. It sounds like you guys are really ah, evolving and iterating and learning. Um, what's interesting to me is this more immersive experience that you're talking about with the ah beer garden. It's nothing new, but. 02:53.54 Justin Bartek Um, yeah. 03:06.83 Justin Bartek Your. 03:08.66 vigorbranding Shifting from the traditional idea and bringing this in but then thinking about doghouses building this this. Um you know fame around that experience but virtual doesn't offer it So How are you bridging that gap. How do you bring that fun and that immersiveness and that uniqueness that doghouse has into these virtual brands that. Maybe inextricably linked ah for people For example. 03:30.41 Justin Bartek Um, yeah, it's funny. We've got these quirky names like badass breakfast burritos for instance or jail bird which is our wings um just different ideas like that. But what? what? I found what it really comes down to and I don't want to talk negative about any competitors but you know what it is. It's like. Got these brands that might have a celebrity at the Helm or just their name is slapped on it. The food quality is not there people know right away what we've seen. We've done a ton of research on this and really the last six months, especially but. The idea that you know Mr. Biesberger has 800 locations 3000 locations. Whatever that number they want to put on there but how many reorders are they getting after you order that 1 time how many people order that again I would say it's very small. The other thing we have going for us. You know in our like our badass breakfast burrito concept. We we average selling you know hundreds a day of that product right? So it's like that's per location. Mr. Beast we found only sells seven per day at the locations that they have so even though it's a huge volume because there's 3000 of them or whatever that number is they're not selling a ton. You know per location. So what we found is that our advantage is really the quality of the food and we we really try to push that in the forefront from the operations angle from packaging from you know, getting it to a science where we know this is what sells what's good. We know how to make it. We know how to deliver it with our partners or you know even taking that. 04:54.36 Justin Bartek Into direct delivery and that sort of thing so that's the that's the future. But what we what our advantages is the product itself and our food really sells itself like we're getting tons of repeat orders. We've got a great loyalty um to the brand and infinity to the brand. So now. Our next challenge is like how do we make. That doghouse fan know about badass breakfast burritos because it is not inside the 4 walls right? It's not on the menu board is badass breakfast breeze ah jail bird is not on the menu right? It's all virtual. So that's that's our challenge is like how do we connect them or maybe do we not want to connect them right? like maybe we don't need to connect them. Maybe we can license. Badass breakfast burritos with another bigger concept and they can sell that right? So like there's all these ideas out there that we're working on so there's a lot of excitement but really I think what it's come down to is the core products and how they travel and. This badass breakfast burritos I mean it's just it's doing so well, it's 20% of our sales now across the branch. So. It's just really taken off in ah in a huge way. So for my job. It's like how do I what I want to do is make badass breakfast bur briritos and or doghouse what you think of when you think of a breakfast burrito and I know that's hard to do in California but. In Maryland maybe it's easier right? Maybe it's easier in Atlanta you know, like just these other places where breakfast brito culture is not what it is I feel like we can really plant the flag and be that because this product tastes so good and it's really working. So. 06:05.49 vigorbranding Um. 06:16.30 vigorbranding Yeah, that's so much to unpack there. Um, so for clarity purposes the the virtual concepts that you have now solely exist within dog house footprints or do you have them for other ah Kitchens and. 06:25.20 Justin Bartek We? Yes, so we do work with both the main kitchen. So kitchen united is obviously our close partner but we do work with with the others as well in certain instances. You know what I mean but it's very limited and what we've what we've really found. Is we this year. We've sort of. Taken a step back from those so like the kitchen experience the virtual kitchens and really dove more into our own brick and mortar and how to make the execution better from our own stores and so even though we have 6 virtual brands. It's not like we're out here trying to get ghost kitchens for all of them. We're trying to run them from our own kitchens. 06:52.30 vigorbranding Um. 07:03.35 Justin Bartek And that's been sort of the focus for this year but what's great about that is like I said we could turn on a new brand tomorrow and then here's ah, here's another brand here's a different take on it. You know we're always the the real research in the kitchen is what. Is great here because these guys love to cook. They love food and it's like they're always inventive with that. So it's like it's it's a nice feeling to know they're also not scared to say okay, here's a brand like all we need is a logo It's a packaging and we we got the same ingredients for the most part usually so it's um, you know. 07:29.17 vigorbranding Um. 07:30.38 Justin Bartek They're They're very adventurous when it comes to that and then if one sticks great if doesn't we can take it away. You know it's not a lot of not a huge investment. 07:37.27 vigorbranding Yeah,, that's one of the things that I think has been um I don't I mean I'll say scary but I don't mean scary I think so in y'all's case it makes a lot of sense you have footprints you have a kitchen you can take the mitigated risk that is lower cost all things considered and by all things I mean. The the cost of finding a location putting an loa down um securing a building out blow this goes On. Um, so that's great. But I do think that there is a misperception or misconception from a lot of folks that all it is is create a fun name throw a logo together put some packaging together. Wham Bam. Thank you Ma see you later. 07:59.29 Justin Bartek Um, yes, yes. 08:12.67 Justin Bartek Um, right. 08:13.72 vigorbranding And get it out there and I think that my thinking is that it's going to lead to some of these set it and forget it brands. It's going to lead to failure is that something that you see that you're seeing is that something that you guys are worried about. 08:29.36 Justin Bartek I would say not, We're not worried about that and it goes back to the product. We've tried all these brands right? where we always are like let's try this one. Let's see this barstool whatever like but what is it and we get the packaging. We see the food like ah great. 08:40.85 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 08:42.48 Justin Bartek And it's not. It's nothing that I really would ever want to order again and I don't want to trash. Anyone's brands but like it's just the the name of the game you know, but it's like it's like dude like. 08:48.99 vigorbranding Let's track him come on. 08:53.60 Justin Bartek Is Barrstol really spending time to do that research is Mr. Beast really out here testing food like that you know, no, he's not he doesn't have time to do that. We know that and plus when it's not your passion like when I when I see Mario Lopez Tacos do I ever want that? no. 09:00.46 vigorbranding Um. 09:08.96 Justin Bartek Is he known for tacos. No, he's known for being Latin right? like so on du like you just now it's getting stereotypical like it's just funny to me that um you know it's just they don't have the the culinary background right? and I think where doghouse shines is we are. 09:11.54 vigorbranding Um, right. 09:21.30 vigorbranding Right. 09:26.26 Justin Bartek Created by people that are very into food that was the goal from day 1 we use King Hawaiian roles we do we do all these things that are a little different and we really focus on quality like creekstone farms is our our meat provider. Let's say no antibiotics like it's not a joke here like we talk about it but we we need to talk more about it because I think. You know today's guests especially the younger ones they care about those things they care about the environment the planet where where things are sourced. You know they chipotle is you know for what they are if they've done that job of like hey we we're selling you something better. Is it really I don't know but they talk about it right? So we we kind of we're leaning into that as well like let's put it out there what we're doing because. 09:58.27 vigorbranding Right. 10:04.16 Justin Bartek You are paying for that quality and I think you know from what I've heard from our team only being here five or six months you know in the past it's like how do you get someone to pay $8 for a hot dog when Costco sells for a dollar 50 10:15.21 vigorbranding Right. 10:16.77 Justin Bartek So that's ah, a unique challenge for us. But it's like how do we do that with high-quality ingredients telling people about the ingredients making these exotic builds and things that look different. It's not just a hot dog and you know that when you once you see it, you know so it's that's our job to really get in front of people. 10:26.38 vigorbranding Sure, Yeah yeah I Love the approach there and so you're you're really zeroing in on the quality of product That's not a different story I mean everybody thinks Well I won't say everyone that's blanket right? So many people think that their food is quote unquote the best. 10:42.56 Justin Bartek Friend. 10:44.70 vigorbranding Um, but I think what you started to unpack is reasons to believe why it has a better flavor profile those Kings Y and buns the quality of the product. Um, and how you're putting it together and I think that culminates to give the market reasons to not just acknowledge but believe and you're right. 10:52.53 Justin Bartek A. 11:04.48 vigorbranding What does Mr Beast bring to that table. So 1 thing that he has that even y'all don't have is a loudspeaker. Um, you guys have to pay for that right? So you have to go out there to put paid media together. You have to get the you know influencers god forbid I say that word um god I hate that word so much. 11:12.10 Justin Bartek Um, prayers are. 11:18.54 Justin Bartek Let me. 11:23.28 vigorbranding But you have to get influencers to go out there and also add um gravitas to those claims because no one's going to believe it coming from the Brand's mouth. But once the word is out and you've brought someone through that early funnel using marketing speak to a point where they want to try with Mr. Beeer less with little substance. 11:36.34 Justin Bartek You. 11:42.88 vigorbranding With barstool um I'm actually not familiar with their brand I probably their brands I know barstool sports but not their virtual brands. But I would I'd have to imagine Dave Portnoy does have a pretty good stranglehold on pizza and I would say he may have a better stranglehold on pizza than. 11:55.39 Justin Bartek 5 12:02.72 vigorbranding Many other pizza people out there just because of that series I don't know if you've seen it. But yeah. 12:05.11 Justin Bartek Yeah, well, what's funny that brand they don't they didn't they weren't doing pizza. It was wings right? exactly. It's yeah, it's one of those things. Dude it's like um. 12:13.40 vigorbranding Okay, great. Yes, so like why not do pizza. It's like like ah. 12:21.00 Justin Bartek To take it away from virtual for a second just to to talk about this like dobrick dobrick has a pizza shop now here on sunset no one's going there for the quality of the pizza watch any review I I saw one last week with Portnoy testing it and he's like I know you're my boy but dude. And he was really honest like I don't think I'd eat this again, you know and it's like very interesting and what we're seeing with that is like yeah the fame carries it so far. But it's like with any brand. Yeah, you want to open big those are all going to open big because they do have that that megaphone and they can blast that message out hey great but is there are people buying it again. 12:39.10 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 12:55.31 vigorbranding Right. 12:56.59 Justin Bartek You know I mean that's all that I care about because yeah, you'll have this huge splash. Yeah, you might have millions of people interested. But if you don't deliver the first time like any brand people aren't going to go back so over time to to one of the questions you would ask like are are they going to die. Are they going to do this. They might not die some of them are definitely going to die because people aren't going to order them after having it once and then. 13:14.25 vigorbranding Um. 13:16.55 Justin Bartek You know restaurants are not going to serve them anymore. There's because say you know what that one doesn't Work. We're just not seeing any orders. Why are we doing it and I think that's what's going to Happen. It's going to take time. But I think you know even though it's cliche that quality piece matters and especially in delivery because you don't want to get something that sucks or you know you waited Now. It's not good or. All those things matter on delivery in ah in a major way. So yeah, they have the fame and they can say hey here's this virtual Brand I didn't have to do anything I just put my name on it here here's the burger if you order from a different Mr. Beast Did you know that there is no standard like the meat quality doesn't matter to them. They say here's the build but they don't care what meat you're Using. They don't care what condiments. It's just yeah, you use ketchup use mustard to use this meat So every time you have it. It could be a different experience depending on where you get it. That's not really what people look for and brands in my opinion. So another advantage for someone like us who. 14:11.43 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 14:11.70 Justin Bartek Does have that standard and you know what you're getting every time with us. So. 14:16.13 vigorbranding Yeah I think there's like this misconception from folks that are either novice novices to the industry or um, play on ah on a lower scale I think it's a nice way of saying it where those things don't matter and it's like. 14:28.48 Justin Bartek Yeah. 14:32.81 vigorbranding Make it as cheap as possible maximize the profitability get the money and go. But I think now more than ever The the delivery game has changed it I mean you're paying a lot of money you know for something that would otherwise be very like very inexpensive like if I got that same Mr Beast Burger Let's say. 14:42.75 Justin Bartek Yes. 14:51.83 vigorbranding You know at a park out of a truck and it and it wasn't it was different than but the one I'm used to like I probably wouldn't care too much. You know what? I mean I'm like hey it's got the things that's fine. But after I've paid for the fees and the delivery fees and I have to tip the guy. 15:04.59 Justin Bartek Yeah. 15:06.75 vigorbranding You know I'm paying more for all that than I am the actual product and that thing comes back tasting like garbage I mean that's horrible. Yeah. 15:11.67 Justin Bartek Highly disappointing right? like when that happens you're just like and it leads to in the delivery game. It's like I feel like a lot of people just probably have a few favorites. You know I mean they can trust it. They know what they're going to get even if they're like I'm not hungry for Chipotle today but you know if that bowl comes. Gonna be what you want pretty much and it's the same thing every time right? But for others, it's like if I have to do trial and especially with a food like a hamburger. Not the best you know situation for traveling obviously fry same thing like they're gonna get not as good advantage for us tots. 15:32.98 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 15:45.63 vigorbranding A in. 15:46.87 Justin Bartek Tots last longer. You know what? I mean like little things like that where it's like we don't we're not going to lean in to fries the way we set up our virtual menus like tots are going to be number 1 just trying to think in those ways where it's like what what does the guest want and need and then try to outthink them if that makes sense and say. What are we gonna deliver that they don't know they want or can we set it up in a way where it's like they're sort of fallen where where we say this is the best of our menu because we know it's going to take twenty or thirty minutes to get to you so maybe avoid this go with this right? You're still going to get great flavor all that but we' that's. Where we're at now too is really just engineering that menu or the the menus and trying to get them to that place and we're also playing with like you know menu positioning so like on on our virtual brands. What's the order on the dsps versus our own site does it matter. How does it work. what what are the sales differences. All these things we're trying to just get a lot of data right now and. And push that forward and then the other piece kitchen night I mentioned they are a partner but they're actually building an os for us that will live on top of toast where we'll have multibrand ordering and with that in the same basket meaning multibrand loyalty which is really exciting for us because if you're a doghouse. 16:39.73 vigorbranding Um. 16:45.38 vigorbranding In. 16:58.51 Justin Bartek User or fan and you've ordered and we have your history. We know what you're doing but you've never tried Badass Breakfastry here's an email you you got to try this here's your discount here's whatever that is. It's like tying all that together is really exciting because now people really know that the brands are connected in that way and they're like oh I like the doghouse calling y I'll probably like. You know, bad mother KClucker I'll probably like Badass breakfast brito that that looks Amazing. So we'll be able to tie that together so that kind of is going to change our whole marketing strategy Once that's ready to go this year. Um, and then then on my side. Obviously you know me, but ah I push for digital I have a partner with partnership with hyperlocology. 17:18.38 vigorbranding Um, right. 17:34.97 Justin Bartek We're already talking about dialing into that direct ordering once this K U environment's ready because every marketing piece is going to go direct direct orders you know, um, collect the data retarget. 17:43.54 vigorbranding Bright. 17:47.68 Justin Bartek Find lookalikes. The whole thing is going to be dialed in in a way that this brand's never had it before so we're really excited about that because in conjunction with this k u thing with Hyperlocologist help. It's like we're going to drive transactions direct for our own ordering you know and then we'll get away from fees that way we'll be able to subsidize the order. Um, fee or you know the delivery fee through our partners but it's still cheaper than giving them 2025. Whatever you know these guys have signed up for in the past. So that's really exciting and that's just going to open up a new world and I know you you talk about this probably a lot on these pods just in in your career but like the data piece. 18:22.40 vigorbranding E. 18:24.35 Justin Bartek Restaurants still struggle with it because we don't have a data data analyst on our team but we know we need that data. We need to take that data and then. Use it in ways that will help us grow our brand or grow repeat business or grow. You know, like whatever that thing is but we need to harness the data and start using it. So that's that's been a huge goal for this year as well. 18:40.70 vigorbranding Yeah, it's huge I mean everything is providing data these days but rare is the case that you find folks that really know how to use it. So my friend Tammy billings She started abe and aben's been pretty great to look at from outside looking in as far as harnessing some of that. 18:48.40 Justin Bartek Right? yeah. 18:57.49 vigorbranding Sales data and getting really nuanced with when people are buying when people are making buying decisions. Um you know and hopefully hopefully I'll get her on the podcast here soon. But um, you know that's why here at at Vigor Povon we have a data science team for that very reason like it's like we know you have data. But what are you doing? What story are you excavating from that data that can help you make decisions on things like buying behaviors on things like um, where where not just profitability. But how can you maximize that profitability. How can you maximize order counts and order averages. Um, but a lot of it just comes from the gut. 19:33.84 Justin Bartek Definitely yeah. 19:36.44 vigorbranding So that's that's really troubling now one side of this that really we haven't I haven't really dove into it with anyone and but it's really intriguing to me and since you're kind of on the front lines here is the innovations in packaging you know so you mentioned the the french fry game which I mean anybody that works with Frenchchris we know. It just the sweating makes them suck and it's really tough to keep a well-balanced crisp to to a tooth ah balance in there but what innovations crip crip the tooth. Yeah, it's really important. 19:57.39 Justin Bartek Yeah. 20:09.13 Justin Bartek Crisp the tooth. Love it crisp the tooth. Ha. 20:13.69 vigorbranding I'm but I'm borrowing tooth from the Pasta world. But yeah, it's um, what are you seeing as far as innovations and then what kind of Impact. Do you think that's having on the bottom line because as we know innovations when they first come out cost more. Because it takes a while for the very you know the demand to catch up with the supply and therefore drive prices down. 20:32.91 Justin Bartek It's Funny. We we're in the middle of packaging you know like we're figuring out how what package you do want to go with in the near term in the short term. It's like we have some packaging that looks nice, um, with hot dogs a little different so it's like a tray and then you slide it into a box and it keeps it well. But. Is it hot Enough. It's Cardboard. You know it's not.. It's not ideal right? Fryes same thing like we don't have great fry packaging solutions right? now here. But at other brands I worked for like hello guys they solved it if you've seen their fry package. It's pretty awesome. It's got holes in it holds? Well the lid shuts like. 20:50.93 vigorbranding Right. 21:08.74 Justin Bartek I Would love for us to go to something like that. Um, but literally I can't really help you with this because we're in the middle of like trying to figure this out. We've got our designers working on the look and feel but as the actual products like we're taking a look at everything and we're probably like a lot of brands like okay what for our brand. What makes most sense you know like our burgers are pretty big. They're square right? but they're. 21:25.30 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 21:28.63 Justin Bartek Hawaiian roles. So you got to think through that How does that work right? like there's a lot here where things you don't have to worry about at other brands we sell corn dogs like how do you get a corn dog hopped someone in the most in the best way so it doesn't break while it's on the way you know there's things like that. So we're really, we're really in the middle of it right now trying to figure it out just like everybody. 21:41.50 vigorbranding Right. 21:48.20 Justin Bartek Um, but to your point it is a huge I wouldn't say a concern but it's like we need to solve it just like everybody else because we do want to get that quality product to you hot and you know crisp to tooth. 21:57.76 vigorbranding Yeah, it's um, you know may I think obviously there's there's innovations that that happen with the packaging too. But I wonder what what can these dsps delivery service providers for those that don't know. Um, what can they do to help out. You know like I'm I'm surprised we don't have um modular solutions that have both hot and cold that can be put into vehicles. Um, you know because then that would make our jobs a little bit easier when we're thinking about innovating and that hey we know the hot side is going to be capped at one forty one sixty, whatever that that temperature is. 22:33.74 Justin Bartek Pronounce. 22:35.84 vigorbranding Um, but if you're going to provide delivery I think the means of transportation is only 1 facet like you know you're talking about food and and part of that's food safety which is really tough. 22:41.83 Justin Bartek Um, yeah yeah I remember you know a few years ago when it was really happening. Everyone was looking for stickers like how do I seal my bag because before that we didn't even do that right? you might tie it. You might do whatever it's like. 22:54.40 vigorbranding Um, right. 22:57.19 Justin Bartek I Got to seal it to make sure that you know a driver doesn't accidentally grabs some fries out of it or whatever you know, like course the horror stories but it's true. You know you need all that. So um I feel like that part of it. You know was Covid really pushed a lot of you know hey we got to figure out this to go packaging and like. 23:00.80 vigorbranding Um, yeah, um. 23:14.50 Justin Bartek Like you said when I was at Virginia when I started at Virginia 8 stores even had delivery even had online ordering 8 right? We had to build it in two months we had to set it up. We needed to talk to dsps like a lot of our stores didn't even do third party Virginia because they didn't need to. 23:19.49 vigorbranding E. 23:30.95 vigorbranding Um, yeah, well and soups a whole nother level man like get yeah. 23:32.12 Justin Bartek You know and saying like they made enough money. Yeah, and they were just like we're good. We're good. So I know that really from the frontlines of Virginia we had to figure that out within a month or 2 and really get to go and negotiate contracts set it all up with all our franchisees make sure they're on board make sure they know how to execute you know change the packaging. 23:49.11 vigorbranding Um, right. 23:50.64 Justin Bartek We actually set up some some stickers at Virginia that named the which bowl of ramen you you get which sounds so like yeah of course you should do that? No they were using a grease pencil for years because they didn't have a lot of words so like sure whatret then stickers became mandatory we needed it. You know it helped the guest immensely because you're getting 4 bowls if you're ordering 2 rains soup. 23:59.40 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 24:10.90 Justin Bartek Toppings soup toppings knowing which is which is huge and especially for someone who might not order ramen a lot so we saw we saw our guest satisfaction go way up once we started doing that we saw it on reviews. We saw it everywhere like oh we love these stickers because now we you know we really know that that's ours. You know if we have a multiple order So little things like that go a huge go a long way. Um. 24:13.26 vigorbranding Um, right. 24:29.74 Justin Bartek But you know I just think the packaging experience is very top of mind here and we're trying to solve that this year because we know you know it's it's got to be done especially across our brands like we when they started the brands it was right when covid started so like the bag they're like let's do it cheap. 24:38.51 vigorbranding Um, right. 24:49.14 Justin Bartek Here's a stamp of the logo. So literally we've got people at the restaurant stamping bags Badass Breakfast burritos and that was our that was our packaging Now we're like let's pick it up a level. Um, you know we could license this brand potentially to another brand. We got to make sure we have everything died in so we're working through it. But it's all important man. 24:54.32 vigorbranding Um, right. 25:05.35 vigorbranding yeah yeah I mean and I think that's that's the thing there's like no 1 thing that should just be painted over but I do like the idea I mean especially when you're starting something up, um a lot of places want to do it perfect but perfect is undefined because you you don't really know what people are going to be buying in what kind of volume and so. 25:08.57 Justin Bartek F. 25:23.14 vigorbranding You know we're big proponents of like get the things set that you know for sure are borderline immovable but also be ready for that evolution. Be ready to learn and iterate and iterate um quickly and if you were in Silicon Valley God I Hate to say this now considering the the things with the banks but like fail fast. 25:25.92 Justin Bartek Right? yeah. 25:42.10 vigorbranding You know and the whole idea of failing fast is learn. What's not working adjust iterate. Try something new until you get the right thing rather than trying to turn every knob perfectly and wait for the perfect moment because there is no such thing. Um. 25:42.16 Justin Bartek Yep. 25:47.42 Justin Bartek And. 25:55.16 vigorbranding You know how how much of that. Are you guys employing how much of that mentality are you putting to use when you when you think about these innovations. 25:58.61 Justin Bartek We definitely are not not on like packaging per se even though we were talking about that but like happy hour. Let's say we've got different franchisees in different parts of the country and some might say hey we need x on our happy hour menu because this local audience will react and for the longest time. And this is at every brand but they're like no, we have our set thing here. We're sticking with this even though it might help you there. We don't have the bandwidth to create this for you one-off style you know like every brand goes goes through that we've been going through that. But how we're how we're solving for is we're allowing certain franchisees to. Try things. We're setting up committees where it's like there's a packaging committee. Let's say um, there's a happy hour committee. There's all these committees with like maybe 4 to 5 franchise partners but like it's the ones that that's their specialty. Let's say so the guy that sells a ton of delivery. We want him on the packaging because he's going to know right? He's selling the most. So. 26:35.29 vigorbranding Are. 26:53.35 Justin Bartek Um, That's how we've tried to kind of set this up and we'll let them try things then we'll come back together say how's that working for you. How has that impacted sales. How has that impacted your cost etc and then we'll sort of keep the ball rolling and we'll say all right? We're going to implement this now everywhere take this these learnings. This was the best thing because we are of the we're the kind of people that you know. The best idea wins. Not my idea you know it's just we want The best idea we don't care where it comes from. So um, we're really into that now this year. We've honed in on these committees and I think even though I wasn't here what I've learned from this brand is communication communication communication because when Covid happened. 27:13.83 vigorbranding Um, sure. 27:30.17 Justin Bartek Franchisees were freaking out. They didn't have any of the virtual brands. They only had doghouse. They made the decision the first week when everything shut down. Hey let's turn them on. Let's go and it was a complete leap of faith because we didn't know how we were going to do it. We didn't know how to do 6 brands at the same time you know, but like worked our way through had the partners. 27:32.67 vigorbranding Means home. 27:47.92 Justin Bartek Um, the partners had our backs meaning our our founders but then franchisees every week at a weekly call How's it going here's what we're learning kind of triaged our our team. So. It's like you're an expert in delivery. You're an expert in design. You're an expert in this and we would bring things to the table every week as it was happening so like hey. Ah, Panera Bread's doing this and it's working for them and just letting our french disease know like this is what's out here. Everyone kind of became an expert in a certain you know piece of this and then we just would communicate and overcommunicate and I think that really helped this brand survive it. Their sales actually came out higher because when they launched the virtual brands they got about a 30% pop. 28:24.67 vigorbranding Um, nice. 28:25.87 Justin Bartek So It really was a smart thing to do at the time. But even though I wasn't here. It's likeve been talking to our team. It's like that's how we attacked it. You know, just everyone kind of became an expert. Everyone would talk overcommunic communicate and really I found in my career communicating communication in general most important to franchisees to operations for me being a marketer. Um, early ah in my early early days like baha fresh I Just remember going there and like ops didn't talk to marketing or at least they were always at odds they might have talked and it was friendly in the hallway. But when it came to decisions. Everybody's at odds? No One's on the same page. That's how it was there from that job I really took that to heart and said look the only way as a marker I'm going to get things done. 28:52.34 vigorbranding Um, right. 29:04.87 Justin Bartek Are lockstep with ops either good cop, bad cop or what do they need from me to help them and then they'll help me you know So I've always tried to attack it that way in my career but it's coming from a place where it was not like that and it was very obvious and it could've been way better. So I always just tried to take that. 29:13.24 vigorbranding That's right. 29:21.99 Justin Bartek You know as I moved on in my career for sure I have. 29:23.83 vigorbranding There's a good lesson learned. Um I would say 1 idea to bring to the table for you guys this one's free by the way is remove the word committee and I think you should take inspiration from imperialist Britain um and change it to ministry. 29:34.91 Justin Bartek Um, okay I love it I love that I'm gonna put that on my Linkedin. Ah. 29:36.72 vigorbranding So the ministry of packaging innovation like now something you want to put on your resume. But yeah, yeah I am ah the leader of the ministry of amazing marketing solutions I Love it. 29:51.48 Justin Bartek Ah, there you go and you know. 29:53.95 vigorbranding Well so you're kind of at the forefront. It's going on in in the virtual space and um, you know it amazes me every month as I see more and more brands kind of come and I think some are dying off something slower than others some quicker than I expected. Um what? What do you think is next up for. This massive digital shift and and virtual brands and do you think we're going to start to see a convergence of virtual concept that do so well that they actually find a place in brick and mortar. Um, what? What's the big forecast from Senor Bartek 30:23.11 Justin Bartek I think that's going to happen I I think what will happen and it depends if you know maybe at a Ceo level if they'll let it happen but I do I think that licensing brands that are popular is going to become a thing I think we're obviously on the forefront of that now talking to some people. Can't talk about who but like there's some things where it could be thousand locations and it could be tomorrow. So if that happens that as breakfast burrito we become a burrito brand right overnight which is kind of scary but our founding partners are talking about already like you know what? that means like it's a thousand locations where we would do everything we would do all the marketing we would do the packaging all this. We're already preparing for that. But I I really do see that I think a lot of the flyby night celebrity led brands will go away I mean it's just it's gonna happen because of quality control I feel more than anything also in that world. You know when you're whenever you're dealing with celebrity. It could be here today. Gone tomorrow. 31:12.94 vigorbranding Right. 31:21.80 Justin Bartek I mean like yeah Mariah Carey has staying power and she's probably not going anywhere but like do people are people going to care about Mario Lopez if he's not on that show anymore or Mr Beast he could have some who was the other guy online and said something and then he was just erased like the next day right like 31:27.61 vigorbranding Every. 31:35.98 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 31:37.65 Justin Bartek That kind of thing happens and then it's like maybe Mr Beast goes away. He slips up and says one wrong thing all of a sudden. He's banned or whatever right? So I just feel like those type of brands aren't here for the long haul I feel like if it's chef driven or brand driven and you you know that food that's where it's going to be I think you know, um. 31:42.79 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 31:55.92 Justin Bartek Who who does a great job like fukoo you know anything like this you know you're getting from Chang you know mean like Chang is going to kill it. So um I just think it's more chef-d driven more brand driven. It's more about story. You know how it is with the youth you have a kid now. 31:58.90 vigorbranding Um, he's crushing right now. Yeah. 32:10.36 Justin Bartek They they care about the planet they care about. Maybe not yours not old enough to care about anything the the bathroom and food but you know I mean just the the way the world is going I feel I feel like the real stories are more important than ever you know I mean telling your real background telling your real history and then having people buy into that by saying you know what. 32:10.47 vigorbranding Um, yeah, not yet. Yeah is great. 32:29.45 Justin Bartek I Like that too or I'm that way too and I combine into that and I see where these guys are coming from or I see where these ladies they started in their kitchen. They did this whole thing Now they have this brand like I love stories like that even out here I mean I don't know if you've been out here in a little bit but we've got this brand home state which you may have heard of it's it's ah it's. 32:46.81 vigorbranding I Don't know if it did okay. 32:48.33 Justin Bartek Ah, a woman from Texas but she does breakfast tacos and she makes Caso and she's got she's a triplet so she has 2 sisters but it's literally like just they started here. They brought these recipes here and now I think they have 6 or 7 locations but it's a brand I love because it's like the vibe. The music they're making tortillas by hand. 33:06.11 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 33:07.90 Justin Bartek Great food. You know it's just like they're doing a great job and it's the kind of brand that could blow up and that's what you want, You know you mean they have a story they're in the community. They they do donations they work with music artists to do their you know foundational kind of things. It's just like that's a kind of brand I Want to be a part of I don't feel bad spending my money there because I know that she's. 33:17.30 vigorbranding Right. 33:24.40 vigorbranding That's right. 33:25.50 Justin Bartek You know doing it in the community and really doing a great job. So I think brands like that are are what people will focus on in the future and especially the youth think as we grow you know we're old. We don't yeah we like what we like but like these these young kids are are the future Obviously but they're the ones that are like what do they stand for that matters which back when I was. 33:35.57 vigorbranding Um, yeah to bummer date. Yeah. 33:44.37 Justin Bartek I think I went to Burger King and I'm saying I didn't care what their politics were or whatever I went to these restaurants I didn't care now. It's just it's a cultural change and I think those that are equipped to deal with that or at least have a story or bring something to the table are going to be in a better position than those that don't. 33:44.54 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 33:59.33 vigorbranding Yeah I mean I think patrons you're you're tapping into it outside of the philanthropy and the the political statements and stuff like that I think those are all um surface level outputs from a deeper need and I think that need is to feel like a sense of honesty. And the sense of real like you mentioned with home state like I just want to feel like it's real I want to feel like I'm not lining the pockets of some fat cat wall street blah blah blah and you can go down that whole you know rabbit hole. Um, but only because you brought her up I'm going to bring bring us back to that for one second if Mariah Carey opens up a Christmas cookies brand. 34:22.70 Justin Bartek Um, and. 34:36.88 vigorbranding Um, buying them I'm buying them like a lot like I just think our principal that's right, yeah and she doesn't want a lot for Christmas she only wants you and these delicious cookies. Ah. 34:38.50 Justin Bartek Yeah, you know why? ah you she knows Christmas probably better than anybody no to buy a cook. Yes. 34:54.40 vigorbranding Ah, ah, um, that idea is copywritten if you do decide anyone listening to connect with Mariah Miscarry and I expect to be called I want I want royalties and I think it's a brilliant idea in the making. Um. 34:55.62 Justin Bartek See whatever. 35:09.67 vigorbranding So last time we had you on. We asked you what your 1 final meal would be I think it'd be kind of unfair to do that again. Um, so why don't we water that down a little bit and ask you what is your favorite meal right now or your favorite place to eat. What are you loving the most. 35:14.87 Justin Bartek Um, yeah. 35:27.60 vigorbranding Not You can't say anything from doghouse because that's obvious. 35:30.30 Justin Bartek Yeah now. Um you may have been to this spot. But you know Javier's that brand I think there's about 6 of them vegas here couple places. Um dude I love their food I love that whole menu I could I could go there and try something different. 35:36.12 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah, yeah. 35:45.88 Justin Bartek Thirty days in a row and be satisfied every time I mean it's just an amazing experience. So ah, for fine dining mexican food on on the coast like going down there. It's one of my favorite things to do and also the people watching because you could imagine Newport Coast like who's going there and it's just hilarious. 35:50.50 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 36:03.40 Justin Bartek For someone like me I'm just like I love it. So I just like the people watching or load the food. They've got an amazing bar like just attention to detail with javier himself I have a friend that actually it's a random as story but maybe ten years ago the first time I went. 36:03.43 vigorbranding That's right. 36:18.76 Justin Bartek He played on javier's basketball team they were in this like wreck league. So he knew them so we would go there. My wife and I and a couple friends and Javier's there comes to the table and like. 36:23.70 vigorbranding Um, okay. 36:30.30 Justin Bartek I had never been there so I'm just like this is amazing like there's just like is like this every time it's like no because my friend was with us that knows him but he's bringing out kcd is doing the whole thing and it's just like such a nice time but that was the first time I went and then ever since I just like love the brand the attention detail the the quality you know like that's the kind of brands I want to work for or be a part of so. 36:30.52 vigorbranding Yeah. 36:49.78 Justin Bartek I would say Ha Yearss and there's nothing on that menu I wouldn't need but you know the the molay enchiladas are Killer. So yeah. 36:55.94 vigorbranding Cool that sounds Killer man. Um, yeah, next time I around one. Maybe it's Vegas for a trade show or maybe I get out there to to the L a area again. We'll have to we'll have to go look man. Thanks for being so generous with your time and your insights and your ideas It's great having you on again. Um. 37:05.70 Justin Bartek Um, yeah. 37:10.33 Justin Bartek Um, course. 37:14.23 vigorbranding And hope hopes to connect with you real soon. 37:16.71 Justin Bartek Anytime Buddy Thank you. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Ut elit tellus, luctus nec ullamcorper mattis, pulvinar dapibus leo.

Troy was born in Hawaii. His family goes back five generations in Hawaii and was among some of the first missionaries to arrive on the islands. He started as a 14-year-old dishwasher in Maui and eventually worked his way up to a sous chef working with his mentor, Chef Roy Yamaguchi. Hawaiian culture emphasizes “ohana” which means family. Troy has worked hard to embrace that same family atmosphere in his restaurants. It's difficult to maintain a restaurant culture as a restaurant grows. Owners often find themselves having to choose between managers who are a good cultural fit but underperform as managers or vice versa. Taking care of guests is critical and is the foundation of any restaurant's success. Troy's vision for TAG Restaurant Group changed during COVID. His new steak restaurant in Houston opened three months before COVID and struggled in 2020 and 2021, but rebounded in 2022 to become a successful location today. Quotes “(When it comes to ingredients), I was taught early on working in California, Hawaii, New York and Hong Kong that you utilize what you can from where you're from.” (Troy) “Authentic and real. I think everyone can see when something is genuine. We try to hire people who are genuinely hospitable. Even if they don't know how to cook but they have a good attitude and want to, we like those types of people.” (Troy) “The days of people staying for 10 plus years are probably long gone.” (Troy) “Pay is, of course, one factor, but it's not THE factor.” (Joseph) “Our core values are passion, imagination, courage, caring, humility, harmony and ownership. That's what I want to see in people. I want to give them ownership to do what they think is best.” (Troy) “It's really tough to foster a culture when you spread out (to multiple locations).” (Joseph) “Two weeks in (at my first restaurant), we were $40,000 in the hole. My investors said if you don't change we'll have to close. The second month we lost $20,000. The third we broke even. And the fourth – I swear to God – we made $40,000. We made an $80,000 swing in four months by just focusing and working together. ” (Troy) “Marketing can get people to visit once. It's the restaurant's job to get them to come back.” (Joseph) Transcript 00:00.81 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by chef troy guard from tag restaurant group which you're going to learn all about if you're not already familiar. Um Troy say hello give a little bit of backstory. 00:11.84 Chef Troy Guard good morning good afternoon good evening whatever time we're listening to here. It's March Seventeenth St Patrick's day and I'm just chilling in my marketing's ah my marketers' room right now. So talking to Joseph in the. Excited to be on board. Thanks for having me. 00:29.77 vigorbranding Awesome! Well Troy so you grew up in Hawaii um, which it's islands that I absolutely love and now you find yourself imp possibly the complete opposite. You're a mile up in the air in Denver. 00:35.91 Chef Troy Guard Um, you know. 00:42.93 vigorbranding Um, what led you to Denver from Hawaii and and how have those roots from the islands influenced your cooking and your outlook on life. 00:50.48 Chef Troy Guard Yeah, thank you so yup board on the islands we're 5 generations of being in Hawaii even though we're white where you know some of the first missionaries to come over there which is kind of cool. Um, great stories back there. Um I left when I was. You know, 21 and just kind of just went all over the place and it's funny now that you just said that that I never even kind of realized I knew I traded the ocean for the mountains but being at sea level and then a mile up. That's pretty crazy and it's the first first place. Anywhere in my life that I was landlocked I've always lived by an ocean. So I've been here 21 years now so the last twenty one years no ocean but it's kind of cool I get to go on vacation to the ocean. So ah, I'm actually going to Malley on Wednesday I can't wait and it is my happy place. 01:42.64 vigorbranding I love it. It's it's hard not to dis not to love? Ah Hawaii um I haven't gotten to maui I haven't gotten to Kawai I've only been to a wahoo. Um, but. 01:44.98 Chef Troy Guard So yeah, um. 01:49.89 Chef Troy Guard Um, they're all beautiful. They're all different and I think they're all very very special magical. 01:56.76 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah, and you pick up a little bit of local slang while you're there too. So I believe you're a howly and um and you make food that is very ono. Yeah. 02:01.83 Chef Troy Guard Yep, that's for sure I got picked on all the time I got you all? yeah oh no odo delicious um yeah I got picked on all the time because I was the little white kid over there. So um, yeah was it's pretty different, pretty crazy. Um, but I love it. I love the international flavors of Hawaii filipino Japanese Chinese ah polynesian american so it was pretty cool and the funny thing was I don't think I had a casadia ah so I was like 15 I mean we had like. 02:36.47 vigorbranding Um. 02:37.40 Chef Troy Guard That seasoning taco mix and stuff like that. But I just never really ate mexican food I I can't remember a mexican restaurant on Hawaii that I went to. 02:46.12 vigorbranding Yeah, it's wild. Um, the the food there is amazing and so for those haven't really thought about it or haven't been to the islands the influences make a lot of sense because Hawaii it's about what 5 hours off the coast or 3 hours off the coast of ah of California but it's 5 hours away from Japan and some of the other ones. 02:57.82 Chef Troy Guard Um, yep. 03:03.40 vigorbranding And then the weirdest thing that I found is they get a huge influx of estonians in the summertime which which is like such a weird thing. Um, yeah, very odd, but ah, suffice to say you you move over into the states or into the mainland I should say you're up in Denver. 03:08.68 Chef Troy Guard Um, oh nice it is yeah it sounds different. 03:23.15 vigorbranding How do you take the the love and passion and that influence culinarily speaking and and how have you used that to create these concepts within the tag group restaurant family. 03:32.11 Chef Troy Guard Yeah, great question. So I think years and years ago. Um, as you know, growing up as a kid a lot of stuff wasn't that fresh I can't remember like fresh brostel sprouts you had carrots and onions. But. Not the things that we are really accustomed to now you go on the whole foods and it's like I am even you know we have safeways. Whatever. So um I always was was taught early on working in California Hawaii New York even Hong Kong you know you utilize what you can where you're from so obviously in California it's a great season all year round. But in Denver like springtime coming up. We're going to get peas and ramps and asparagus. We'll have that too in California but they could have it more readily available. But. I like being in Denver I like the seasonality of a lot of things and we try to get about I mean as much as we can and I would say sometimes up to 80% of anything that are is on our menu comes from Colorado which I think is pretty cool. 04:36.19 vigorbranding Is that is that something that you're continuing as you branch out of Colorado I know that you're in Houston now and. 04:43.56 Chef Troy Guard So then when we go to Houston we want to use products from Houston so they're a little bit different over there. We might even have to adjust the ah recipes tweak them a little bit. But yeah, that's what we do and then I want to use our what I call continental different continents different flavors different cooking techniques. And I might want to bring in a hawaiian fish or Paca Paca I want to might bring in some japanese fish or some chinese spices and to kind of give it that twist I feel like America is a melting pot and it's so international now and Houston is one of the biggest international cities. It is fantastic down there. But I love those bold flavors those ingredients and to take you know a simple dish and just tweak it a little bit I think that's kind of fun. 05:32.70 vigorbranding I love that so I did mess up and and talk about the tag restaurant group family. So one of the words that you use from the island is ohhanna and Ohhanna essentially means family but it means I think more. It's a bigger definition. That's really hard to pin down in english. Um. 05:41.16 Chef Troy Guard Um, oh Hanna yes, do. 05:49.92 vigorbranding Especially when you talk about your staff in the yohanna. That's there. So what? what part does that play in the company culture. How do you foster this and people who haven't maybe had the Hawaiian experience. Um, and yeah, how how do you bring that out. 05:58.93 Chef Troy Guard Um, yup, so yes, oh Hanna means family in hawaiian if you haven't been to Hawaii. It's hard to really understand but I take it even like Mexico when you go down there they hug they kiss. Um. Hawaii's hug and kiss how you doing aloha means actually hello and goodbye. So um, it's kind of cool and we work with 450 employees I feel like we're a big family a big o hana because sometimes we spend forty plus hours here sometimes more than we do at ah with our families. So at home. So we're 1 big ohanna and if anybody needs any support. Anybody needs any help we you know we want to be great leaders and managers but also a great family if if anybody needs to lean on someone. 06:33.88 vigorbranding A. 06:50.65 vigorbranding Yeah, and I think in in this in this state that we're in this industry um in the struggles that we have ah finding new talent keeping great talent How how have you seen this this embracing because a lot of people say oh we're part of the family and then it comes time to scrub though, get baseboards and you don't really feel very family-like at that moment. 07:04.64 Chef Troy Guard Um, so. 07:08.80 vigorbranding Um, how do you put that out into the world in a way that feels honest and authentic and um, how has that played a role in this growth of tag restaurant group. 07:18.17 Chef Troy Guard Yeah, great too I I'll be 52 in a month and every year I think I get a little wiser a little bit more experience. Um I think ah when I sometimes say oh everyone doesn't like this or everyone does this. Ah, of course not everybody so let's just take a hundred people. There's probably about 5% that are the bad apples but sometimes a bad Apple can spoil the bunch so we try to focus in on more of the positives. But um, that's. 07:43.60 vigorbranding A. 07:55.49 Chef Troy Guard What we're trying to do in the restaurant business is work together. Um, now I got sidetracked Can you repeat that question I just lost my train of thought I apologize. 08:03.48 vigorbranding Yeah, yeah, well, it's no and I totally I threw that in as a ringer I think um when we see this idea of family manifest ah out there. How do how do you make sure it feels authentic and real and and what role has that played in. Ah. 08:17.70 Chef Troy Guard Yeah, so authentic and real I think everyone can see someone who's genuine if someone is kissing my ass or you know doing it just to do something you know that we we try to hire people who are genuinely hospitable. 08:18.86 vigorbranding The success of tag. 08:35.73 Chef Troy Guard Great smiles wants to do things even if they don't know how to cook but they have a good attitude and want to we we like those type of people. So and then as far as um, moving forward I think covid has changed a lot I mean everybody knows it. It changed a lot of different things. Ah, we just like to be a strong support system I mean the days of people staying for ten plus years are are probably long gone and that's okay, too. But while they're here. We're going to give it our our best. And after they leave I hope they remember all the things that they learn and literally two days ago I had a guy who used to work for me five years ago and just just wanted to reach out and say hey man you helped me tremendously in so many different ways that makes me feel so good. 09:27.38 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 09:29.47 Chef Troy Guard And you know some people don't of course like ah what we do, but most people enjoy the oh Hanna and the concepts and the structure that we have here just just like politics. There's never everyone who really likes something but we always try to do. What's best. 09:44.90 vigorbranding Right. 09:48.71 Chef Troy Guard For our employees and the business. Yeah. 09:51.81 vigorbranding Yeah, that's that's a fantastic path forward because I think a lot of people pin. Ah the the struggles of the industry on pay. You know oh it'ss that we don't pay enough ah restaurants under pay blah Blah Blah You know we've we've had those arguments before um. 09:58.90 Chef Troy Guard So right 2 10:05.16 vigorbranding But I think what you find is pay is of course 1 factor but it's not the factor and usually a lot of it is that interaction with um leadership. Ah, it's really tough I think to foster a culture when you start to spread out to the size of tag and but and and above you know what? I mean. So. 2 3 concepts locations. Not so bad. But when you have to start instilling that middle management. You get torn between that do I have the person who is a hell of an operator but a terrible cultural fit or or the opposite. Um. 10:26.63 Chef Troy Guard Right. 10:36.95 Chef Troy Guard Right. 10:42.20 vigorbranding And and I think if you go the opposite like yeah, you're really fostering that like how do how do you find you meaning you're fostering the culture but man we're flailing and we're not doing Well we can't stay open. Um so how do you build it. 10:49.14 Chef Troy Guard Yeah, so yeah, just took Ah yeah, just took out of my wallet here I made this I don't know if you guys can see it very well. Yup I'm going to explain it. Yep. 10:58.97 vigorbranding Um, ah let me are you going to explain it Otherwise I can okay, cool. Great. 11:02.75 Chef Troy Guard So at the top. It says our business perspective and then it says the vision you have to have a vision at work and so when we're coming to work. Of course we're doing it because we need to get paid and pay our bills but let's have a meaning to why we're coming so the vision. Tag is a celebration of the unexpected. You never know what's going to happen today. Someone calls in sick um, the dishwasher goes down you name it I've been there. It's happened. How do we put ourselves in those situations and it gets stressful that restaurants are stressful. And there's a lot of moving pieces. A lot of curveballs. So then the first thing is culture like we just talked about if you don't have the culture. You're not going to be successful. Everybody has to buy into what we do and again I'm going to say 95% of all our employees buy into what we do. Even if they're there for three months or 3 years they like what we do and they might have to leave for other different reasons. But that's okay or we might have to give them a new job somewhere else too. But the culture is number one next there are core values so we're coming to work and why are we doing this and. 12:08.40 vigorbranding A. 12:17.57 Chef Troy Guard Ah, core values passion imagination courage, caring humility harmony and ownership. So in one sense of the word when I sat down thirteen fifteen years ago before I opened my first restaurant like That's what I want to see in people I want to give them the ownership Joseph. You're a server that's the guest and the like something I'm giving you ownership to do what you think is best. Don't give away five hundred bucks but let's do something genuinely that's going to take care of. This situation and guess we care for each other I'm very passionate about my work you have to have imagination. So all these core values are great and then the last one is systems. So then we got all the systems in place and then once you do that? Our results are great food, great service and great finance. So. Out of all that money was the last when I was first coming up. That's all I thought about was money like because if I don't make money I'm going to lose but I had it all wrong I had to do the culture the oh Hanna and um, if that is. 13:33.17 Chef Troy Guard On on number 10 everything else should fall in the place. So. 13:38.78 vigorbranding Yeah I love it having that little reminder card is a nice touch I have 1 in my wallet that I put in there five years ago it just has 1 sentence. It just says what if you're wrong. It's just ah, it's just a reminder you know. 13:41.81 Chef Troy Guard Like. 13:51.10 Chef Troy Guard Um, nice I Love that I love that there's you know. 13:54.83 vigorbranding Like because especially if you have bold convictions and you really believe in something it isn't a challenge in a meaning you are wrong just to hey don't forget like what if you're wrong, just think about that other side. Yeah, um, but you did you talked about ah thirteen fifteen years ago um let's hop back there. So um. 14:02.60 Chef Troy Guard Yeah, exactly I like it. 14:14.10 vigorbranding Ah, around that time is when you opened your first ah concept and you're about a month into this idea of tag restaurant group and things weren't going well investors came a knock in and said hey man you got like two weeks that we're done how how did that feel. 14:18.50 Chef Troy Guard Yep. 14:23.71 Chef Troy Guard Yep. 14:27.53 Chef Troy Guard Yeah. 14:31.90 vigorbranding How did you overcome. 14:34.56 Chef Troy Guard Kind of like what your sentence says in your wallet. What if I'm wrong. So um I like to share my stories like that I'm pretty open I don't like to say I'm great when I'm not doing great or I'm I'm not doing great and you're great. So. 14:51.50 Chef Troy Guard I tell that story a lot of my investors tell it to a lot of different people too because I thought I was a great chef and I was but I didn't know everything that else that went on with it and there's a lot of moving pieces in this business. So. I focused in on the food instead of really being the leader that I needed to be in the restaurant so two weeks into it. Yeah, we lost we already were $40000 in the hole. It's like geez that's a lot of money troy how are we going to make that up I had you know too many people in the kitchen too many people on the floor ordering too much wine. Ordering too many high-end ingredients so we brought it all back in and we worked together as a culture the second month. Yeah, my investor said hey if you don't change. We're going to have to close the second month we lost 20 Grand so we were moving in the right direction. The third we broke. Even. 15:41.40 vigorbranding Um. 15:45.73 Chef Troy Guard And the fourth I swear to god we made $40000 so we made a $80000 swing in four months by just focusing and working together. 15:57.45 vigorbranding Yeah, but that's amazing. Um, it's fantastic I Think a lot of businesses suffer that from that where you have a leader who's passionate about the craft and because I'm passionate about the craft because I'm good at what I do therefore success. 16:08.53 Chef Troy Guard Um, to write? yeah. 16:13.10 vigorbranding Like yeah but you're missing so many other things that go into success. Especially it's the same sustained success as well. Um, and I love the story because it was so rapid and was such a turnaround because I think when you're that myopically focused on just the 1 thing if I build it they will come. Um. 16:26.75 Chef Troy Guard Right. 16:30.81 vigorbranding You can turn around things quite fast and I think what we see in restaurants large and small um multi-unit in single unit is a lot of Uberris and a lot of ah arrogance in that. Well it can't be all the things that I do it has to be something else. It's marketing. Let's fix marketing. It's like well. 16:45.31 Chef Troy Guard Right? see? yeah. 16:50.39 vigorbranding You know marketing is going to get someone to come there. Maybe once? um and I said this to a client a while back. That's right? Yeah I said that on a client call a few years ago it didn't go over very well but I stand by it I would say it all over again and that is we can get them to come there. 16:52.78 Chef Troy Guard Yeah, like yeah you marketing is going to get him in there. But what are you going to do to get him back right. 17:09.40 vigorbranding It's your job to get in the comeback and if they don't come back. No amount of marketing can finagle them back. You know, especially if it was a terrible experience. You know. 17:11.70 Chef Troy Guard Um, yeah, no, you're absolutely right? I always say the 4 walls. Um I'd rather do and you can ask anyone in the company. When we first start out I rather do 50 great covers a night than 100 sloppy because I want to blow those 50 away and then we can grow from there. So ah, we we hold the reservations we hold we pace things out. Because again numbers are great and I want to make a lot of money. Um, because we're we're in ah um, a business for profit. We're not a charity and so we need to make money but we have the first build a foundation and that's ah ah, taking care of the guest. 18:05.24 vigorbranding Yeah I love that and so that that kind of gets into another thing I wanted to open up which is this foray into Houston um, as well as the total footprint. So I think you have a total of 12 locations right now. 18:10.84 Chef Troy Guard Um, oh excuse me. 18:18.27 Chef Troy Guard Correct. We used to have more but um, we lost a couple in Covid and also a couple leases ran out and we we were negotiating and then my whole vision changed during Covid right? You know I was going to do this. 18:31.96 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 18:35.91 Chef Troy Guard This path. But now we're doing this path which before I think we had 8 or 9 concepts now we have 4 so I wanted to go an inch wide and a mile deep before I was a mile wide and only an inch deep which isn't bad but I want to grow the most successful concepts that have legs. And so going down the Houston our first one out of state was a steakhouse I mean Houston you would think no brain or right steak and but there's a lot of good stakeeak down there. A lot of great competition so we had to be on our a game and ah unfortunately three months after reopen covid happened. So. 19:02.85 vigorbranding Um, a. 19:13.87 Chef Troy Guard All those dollars spent in training and marketing and building the restaurant just down the tube. So you know we struggled like everybody. Um for that year so 20 and then 21 we were building it back up, but it's still covid's up and down. And then 22 january I think I remember covid hit hard again, but we had a great year a solid team and touching the tables and working those 4 walls I remember doing fifty covers a night now they're doing three hundred covers a night by taking care of the guests and working together. Um. 19:51.60 vigorbranding Yeah I love that um across the board. It's funny so much change in Covid But what didn't change was landlords and their idea of what the value of the space was is still happening. Um, yeah, so a lot of places closed not because they were doing bad but. 19:59.90 Chef Troy Guard Right now. It's crazy. 20:07.16 vigorbranding Quite simply because nothing changed on that level everything else changed but nothing changed there. 20:08.61 Chef Troy Guard I would say 90% so nine out of ten eight out of 10 landlords were really helpful and good and there's always that 1 or 2 just like I said that 95 and five percent. Not everyone's gonna do what they should or shouldn't do and it's just a bummer right? cause. 20:26.23 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 20:28.36 Chef Troy Guard Covid wasn't anyone's doing you know, come down on me if I don't pay the rent because I'm not being successful but you can't get mad at me for Covid you know what? I mean? yeah. 20:39.20 vigorbranding That's right, Yeah, it's really tough, especially when we're all in it together. Um I Also love the idea that you you took the It's a really difficult move to to shrink by design you know, ah for those that have ever gotten a haircut they call it a health cut. You know you chop back a couple inches because you need to grow longer. 20:56.25 Chef Troy Guard Yep. 20:56.34 vigorbranding Um, but so often I see um what ah I would consider tag a hospitality group hospitality groups. They with good reason are absolutely enamored with creating new Concepts I'm enamored with creating new Concepts which is why I started vigor as a branding agency I Love creating new Concepts but with each one of those. 20:59.60 Chef Troy Guard Yeah. Yeah. 21:11.53 Chef Troy Guard Um, it's awesome. Yeah. 21:14.94 vigorbranding You have you have to have your own marketing budget. You have to have unique processes because you kind of stem from the same hub but still like you have to make it unique like ksad diaz as you said earlier are not the same mistakes and all of that. So how have you wrangled that together. How have you ensured that when you do create a new concept. Um, it is coming from that same heart the Ohhanna heart. But. 21:21.96 Chef Troy Guard You hope. 21:32.55 Chef Troy Guard Um, yeah, you know it's it's everything is challenging but what I've learned and it took me a while to learn again is no matter what business we're in. It's about the people. 21:34.54 vigorbranding Manifests effectively. 21:49.38 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 21:51.32 Chef Troy Guard We all have to work together for the common goal. So I'm a very creative guy. That's why imagination is 1 of our core values and I like to create it. But then I got to the point I think where it's like all right now. Let's focus. On some of these great creative concepts that I've come up with and and our employees embraced it and made it awesome now. Let's take some of those they were all awesome for different reasons but tag was me it was chef driven. Um. I couldn't I mean I could duplicate it but not really that was that was everything of me my my heart my sleeve my tears everything and everyone that worked there made it amazing but without tag I couldn't have done these other concepts and so growing growing the. The tag it and getting back to your question I got off but going from 8 concepts or 16 restaurants down covid let us do that I I looked at covid as they gave us lemons I'm in lemonade right? so. 22:51.12 vigorbranding No your front. Yeah. 23:06.90 Chef Troy Guard Um, we reassessed what we were doing. We're all moving so fast that we forgot to step back and really take a look at what we had and so I could have kept tag open I could have kept tag Burger bar open I could have kept a lot of things open. But. 23:19.11 vigorbranding Um. 23:25.33 Chef Troy Guard I said let's take the four best like I worked for Roy Yamaguchi he only opened 1 restaurant for 2030 years now he's branching out and doing 3 4 or 5 different concepts. We I did it differently I branched out first. He didn't um, but that's where I learned a lot working with him growing. Not being able to be in 1 spot all the time. Ah and bringing the culture to each environment. That's what's going to make it special because everybody can make mistakes how are we going to make ours more special. It's I feel. It's with our people. 24:01.68 vigorbranding Yeah, so that's that's a good point. We you mentioned like the multiple footprints so um, creating new Concepts that are evocative of the area or this unique brand moment. Um, again, a lot of fun and you see a lot of hospitality groups that do just that. Um. 24:04.50 Chef Troy Guard Um, oh. 24:17.75 vigorbranding But when you start to go multi-unit. There are the optimizations that you mentioned but a new challenge arises which is how do you prevent it feeling going to use the C word like a chain you know which can have really you know it basically feels devalued. It's like oh well this is. 24:28.40 Chef Troy Guard Yeah, yeah, yeah. 24:36.30 vigorbranding This is also in Denver. It's also in l a it's also blah blah blah. So it's not unique to my neighborhood. How do you? How do you ah work around that. 24:38.71 Chef Troy Guard Right? But yeah I think when I was younger and more cocky I thought chains chains sounded terrible but as I've gotten older I think chains can be good. Um. The consistency the product, the culture. So um, let's just say let's pick a che maybe wolfgang puck or something. He's a chain but I know when I hear and see that name I have a certain quality or. Um, it's going to be a certain value to me even Mcdonald's I mean everyone says they don't like it but it's consistent I don't I don't eat it a lot but I have kids and of course I go to Mcdonald's but at least you know what you're getting and that's what I appreciate about chains is the consistency but you. 25:31.23 vigorbranding And. 25:34.50 Chef Troy Guard You have to be careful because then I see them cutting um, cutting standards or cutting things that made them that great right? So um, we never cut on. 25:42.27 vigorbranding Um, yep. 25:49.65 Chef Troy Guard The value of the plate the product I'm not going to buy a cheaper fillet mignon or a cheaper chicken just to make more money I'm going to try to give the best product I can a best value and we know how much everything has gone up since Covid to so it's been very challenging and in a delicate process to. 26:02.80 vigorbranding Yeah. 26:08.98 Chef Troy Guard I can't just up the menus all the time. What we do is we up it a little bit but we then work on something else on the p and l that we have to get better at whether it's instead of Joe's Joseph's coming in at one o'clock every day we're going to bring you at 151 and if you do that with 50 employees that adds up a lot. Okay, so you losing a few minutes here and there we're going to make it up another way. So um, and how we make it up is we put a service charge on on our checks for three point 5. 26:30.79 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 26:44.89 Chef Troy Guard And 60% goes to the house which myself to offset and everything right? So I don't have to raise the prices and we know like chemicals and gloves and everything just went up and then 40% we gave to the back of the house. Um because they needed a little bit more. 26:49.10 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 27:02.38 Chef Troy Guard The front of the house got it because when we raise our prices they get more tips. So um I think it worked out really really well that way. 27:08.65 vigorbranding Yeah I love that I think those those little changes can have such a big impact I think people forget that because they think everything has to be cataclysmic these monumental shifts to make monumental change and it's like no actually just little habits little. 27:17.39 Chef Troy Guard Right. 27:24.40 vigorbranding Little turning of the knob that doesn't devalue. It only increases value like all those things. It's good to hear that as a reminder for those that knew it but forgot it and it's good for those that don't know it to hear it. It's like actually it's just usually in the details. You know as they say um. 27:32.59 Chef Troy Guard Um, yep. 27:37.86 Chef Troy Guard Correct yep and I love looking at numbers before I was just food food food and I didn't care about the numbers. But you know like I said at tag if I didn't know the numbers. We're gonna fail just like I ask everyone. You know what's in your bank account. Of course you do so you got to know the restaurant too. What are your numbers. How much food am I bringing in today. How much if I bring in a hundred dollars worth of food. What do I need to do in gas per um, you know ppa and things like that. So um. 28:15.10 Chef Troy Guard I like to think we're tag university too. We we sit down once a month and go over the p and ls we sit down once a week and have manager meetings we sit down once a quarter with every manager in our restaurant group and we even fly them up from Houston so we're all together. As an ohna and working together like hey, how'd you get 20% man I keep getting 25. Let's connect and figure out the best way you know? So um, yeah, it's it's fun. It's cool and we have to. We have to take care of the guest but we also have to see all the other things that go on in the restaurant light bulbs. Why is the restaurant. This is a but 1 for me, we open at 5 but every light in the restaurant is is on at Nine Zero a m when everyone comes in like we don't need that it sounds silly. 29:09.30 vigorbranding Um, yeah, no, no, it does it. 29:10.81 Chef Troy Guard But every little thing every little thing adds up I'm a big stickler on um, the environment and waste like you should see like these are your papers that I printed out but later on I'm going to use it on this side. 29:24.56 vigorbranding Right. 29:26.62 Chef Troy Guard And anybody that has to print something we use recycled papers. So it takes an extra second to do what's right? And that's what we try to do? yeah. 29:34.83 vigorbranding Yeah I love that no the lights thing cracks me up because I'm in an I'm in an ongoing battle with the misses on that and I think every day I sing Teddy Pendergrass to her like turn off the lights especially during the day I'm like we we have beautiful windows we have plenty of light. 29:45.93 Chef Troy Guard Yeah, yeah I like it right I Love it exactly Yes I love it. You know. 29:53.95 vigorbranding Like you know and it's not that I'm a cheap case. It's just like but but why like you know it's better for you. Natural light is better for you anyway. 30:03.77 Chef Troy Guard Think our society gets a bad rap like everybody I feel needs a little love right now. Everyone's complaining or angry about stuff and we got to help the environment too and I have my four eight year olds and 13 year old like we're we're somewhere like dad look at that trash and they'll pick it up because. We've worked together to learn that stuff and we got to make the environment a better place. So so. 30:22.54 vigorbranding Yeah, absolutely love it. What what's next for you and tag restaurant group. What what can you tell me like get us excited about the rest of the year in 2024 yeah yeah 30:35.11 Chef Troy Guard Yes, 2023 is already flying by right? It's going to be April first in just a few days. Um, we've been working really hard with during covid so um, like I said we took a step back to reassess everything. And really focused on um, the foundation. Our people um making sure our recipes our daily duties all that kind of stuff and now we're ramped up to really hit it hard. So. We signed the deal a few days ah or a month ago to open our second hashtag we're working right now on 2 more hashtags that'll be open 24 probably we want to open 4 more hashtags in 2 years We're working on a garden grace. Um, possibly. In Dallas or another city right now we're we're in negotiation so that'll be hopefully next year and the boobooos and lo are gonna wait ah wait lo she is a boobo are gonna wait another year while we focus on these 2 but we're still working on those in the background but those are the 2 that we're going to focus on first and then we're going to um, spend more time on the quick casual boobo and we call badass mexican los chingones. 31:57.10 vigorbranding Oh yeah, absolutely lot I'm very familiar with Los Chiing goess. Um, we ah so when when I owned vigor we profiled that very heavily because we opened and created my neighbor Felix believe it or not yeah so yeah, so I'm good friends with the. 32:01.90 Chef Troy Guard 2 32:11.12 Chef Troy Guard Oh right on cool francois all hose is Jose is Jose up felix still okay, yeah, but he was there a long time. Yeah, he's cool. 32:16.16 vigorbranding Chef ah jose ah I love fran while I won't say we're friends but I don't think so no, he's he's stepped away but ah, really good friends with Jose yeah, he's great guy. Um, anyway, so next time I get to Denver I'll have to see you. 32:29.51 Chef Troy Guard Um, right on. 32:31.10 vigorbranding Ah, final question worst question in my opinion because it's so tough to answer but I will make you answer it if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat and where and why. 32:40.86 Chef Troy Guard Nice. That's a great question. Hopefully it's not for a long long time. So I haven't really thought about it. But my favorite thing is ah a grilled ribye steak. On charcoal because ah, growing up literally we ate on a grill five 6 days a week. My dad would barbecue something fish meat. Whatever and it'd probably be some type of rice I ate rice every single day. I like a little bit of teriaki sauce and butter drizzled over that nice steak when it comes out and I love what? What first time I went to Hong Kong like the way they cooked vegetables blew me away I always thought you know you got vegetables and you throw them in the saute pan and you cook them. They blanched everything or steamed everything and the color came out so bright. All that chlorophyll. So I love choice some I like crunchy vegetables and it's like a chinese broccoli. Um, maybe a little bit of kimchi or some hawaiian pokey and I'm a. 33:31.43 vigorbranding Um. 33:46.90 Chef Troy Guard Cours like guys simple and I would do that and I would probably have to do it on the ocean in Hawaii right. 33:53.28 vigorbranding Absolutely love it Man That's a fantastic answer. Um, thanks for being such an open book and generous with your time. A lot of insights in here I can't thank you enough. So best of luck to you in the future. 34:04.58 Chef Troy Guard Yeah, thanks for having me Joseph I can't wait to ah continue to listen to your podcast man. 34:08.17 vigorbranding Thanks.

Chowly is a cloud-based solution that helps restaurants of all sizes integrate third-party online ordering systems into point-of-sale (POS) systems to manage orders, payments, billing, and more.The end result is a technology that saves restaurants time and money. Earlier this year, Chowly launched its Restaurant Control Center, which serves as a centralized hub for integrations and empowers restaurants with consolidated data and business insights. Sterling found that a lot of online ordering systems had great consumer experiences or great operations and back-end experiences for restaurants, but not both. Chowly's acquisition of Koala allowed them to offer superior experiences to both consumers and restaurants. Sterling predicts that dynamic pricing will take off in 2023, with companies like Sauce, Pricing and Juicer leading the way. Apps need to provide an intrinsic value. They can't just be used to check a box. Dynamic pricing will be a shaky system at first, but after 18-24 months, it will have found its footing and be widely accepted by consumers. Quotes “Co-opetition is wild in the restaurant space. The amount of overlap of features from point-of-sale to online ordering companies to loyalty systems to marketing systems – everyone's got overlap of features.” (Sterling) “I feel like the restaurant industry is going through a bundling cycle right now. It's not uncommon to see industries go through bundling and unbundling cycles.” (Sterling) “The consolidation has to make sense. It has to pair well together. Consolidation for consolidation's sake isn't helpful to anyone.” (Sterling) “The first question to ask is, ‘Do I need another app on my phone?' I'm at the point now where the only time an app really matters is if it's completely built with the customer in mind.” (Joseph) “Half of the restaurant industry is small operators and independents. We don't have the same big-player mentality (as the travel industry).” (Sterling) “You can't commoditize a really great burger. The airlines are very much commoditized. The experiences are very similar. In a restaurant, they're completely different.” (Sterling) “As digital threatens the viability of restaurant dining rooms, the question becomes, ‘What makes my dining room worth sitting in?'” (Joseph) “Restaurants need to meet consumers where they are. I don't think on-premise is going away, no matter how much I love the convenience of getting my food delivered to me.” (Sterling) Quotes 00:00.55 vigorbranding Hey guys today I'm joined by my new friend sterling Douglas he's the co-founder and Ceo of Chali which we're gonna dive into a lot so many things happening over there and just so you know we've been chatting for about 10 minutes on all things. So I think it's gonna be great episode. Ah. Sterling say hello and give up a backstory. 00:17.83 Sterling _Chowly_ Hey Joseph thanks for having me on I'm excited to kind of dive into a bunch of these topics that we were getting into yeah cofounder Ceo Chali where digital platform that enables restaurants to expand their off-prem capabilities before. Chaey I used to be an actuary deep into data analytics and just found that data really wasn't moving cleanly between restaurants and you know that really prompted kind of the founding for chaey so that we could take data from you know uber eats grubhubs of the world and help restaurants kind of adopt this new technology without. You know the operational headaches that a lot of them break. 00:56.73 vigorbranding Yeah,, that's Amazing. So Let's actually just dig right into that founding a little bit. Um, suffice to say online ordering and the tech that you got into there's a lot of players out there. So what. Really prompted because it seems like a big risk right? It's like I'm going to launch another online ordering platform you're going into a C of a lot of varying degrees of competition from the old guard to the New. Um, what made you feel like hey I think we're going to do this Better. We're going to do this different. 01:26.51 Sterling _Chowly_ Yeah I mean look over the years um I've looked at hundreds of online ordering and white label tools from like you said you know groups that started in you know, 2003 2005 and to you know some of the recent upstarts that have raised a lot of venture capital. They get their business going. It's something that we've been deep but we we partner with a ton of them. We've resold them. We've referred them. We've helped restaurants get stood up and we've gotten all this feedback. Um, and we always got to ask that question. Restaurant. All the time like hey, what's chali going to do an online ordering tool and and I always mostly just said I don't't really want to there's there's already so many out there. But what we ended up finding is that there was always most of these online ordering Tus fell into 2 buckets 1 they had great. Ah, front end and consumer experience which which was really helpful but then they lacked on the backend and the operational side at the restaurant. It was hard to manage didn't really work with their point of sales system or fifth or flow or you found the exact opposite scenario. Really great backend operational side. Ah, but the consumer experience was pretty lacking. Um. And so when we were kind of evaluating this the the opportunity to bring Koala under the same umbrella came out and the most interesting part to me is that that's all they do is the frontend and the consumer experience and they're so good at it. Even the biggest dog out there in the online ordering space olo refers them in and as a top partner. 02:53.52 vigorbranding Are. 02:55.47 Sterling _Chowly_ So we found literally the best in class on the frontend and on the chaey side most of our product is the operational flow. We're helping you know things like Gruhub and uber eats fit into the restaurants flow integrated the point of sale get all the data and everything so we knew we were really good at that. And 1 of the reasons that we didn't want to build that is because we knew it's really hard to be good at both. You know we didn't have the rightup on staff. It would have taken a long time and even if we did build it. It have been expensive and it still might not have been enough and so this opportunity to bring Koala and is like hey we can actually get both of these things we can have literally the best in-class consumer experience. And the best in class operational experience to the restaurant and if we can truly meld those together that's going to be the best experience for the restaurant industry and especially in the independent operator space where they just you know they don't have a good option to kind of get multiple things under 1 roof. 03:48.33 vigorbranding Yeah, and so for for those who have been um, either stuck in the kitchen and not able to ah bring their head up for the last few weeks chali just completed acquisition of Koala if you're unfamiliar with Koala we did do an episode with Brett ah from koala a few back and we'll make sure we have a link to that in our show notes. Um, Koala basically started ah for lack I'm going to make this sound really dumb. But basically they skinned the olo dot com services so you had a bit more brand control. You had a bit more um control over upsells and how that looks instead of just the out of the box solution that olo provides. And I think thereby reducing the um average of 5 clicks to get through a completion of an order so you guys scoop them up at its core chali started as more um, would you say an integration mechanism between pos and online ordering. 04:39.29 Sterling _Chowly_ Yeah, yeah, point of sale integration company. You know how we described ourselves for a while almost an api as a service right? because we were basically leveraging and creating apis to help data flow between these systems so bringing in you know Koala that specializes on. 04:49.10 vigorbranding Um, a. 04:57.66 Sterling _Chowly_ The user experience. Not only is it are they veniacal about conversion rates which I think is is lacking in the restaurant space but they've got you know machine learning that helps make recommendations to increase basket sizes and the customization of it is so Amazing. Go look at you know Mod pizza. And go look at Pf chains's they're both koala but they're completely different experiences. They're unique to the brand and it was one of the things that I thought was so special about what they were building. 05:25.60 vigorbranding I love that. So yeah, chali essentially is the zapier of the ah of the restaurant technology world. You know what's interesting is when you go when you go to the website. The Chali website. Um I think a lot of us who aren't super integrated into the online ordering and in the pos world. You know you say online orderering most people are going to say grubhub postmates door uber eats and maybe another one and and what's funny to me is like I almost had to take a step back and question how much I know about this industry when I see your ticker of logos and I'm like oh brother I haven't heard of like half of these. Um, oh my gosh. 05:58.63 Sterling _Chowly_ Um. 05:59.98 vigorbranding And so it's interesting to see um to see those those competitors out there now when when looking at Koala as a mechanism to get into a stronger online ordering offering. How do you imagine? That's going to play out. Um. As being basically viewed as a competitor to some of the folks that may have been a partner in the past. 06:21.42 Sterling _Chowly_ Yeah, yeah, so so 2 things on this one? Ah co-optition is just wild in the restaurant space. The amount of overlap of features from point of sales to online ordering companies to loyalty systems to marketing ones. 06:29.00 vigorbranding A. 06:38.67 Sterling _Chowly_ Everyone's got overlap of feature sets. That's that's something that's really just become standard in the industry. So that's not new, all right? Some of our partners have ah Third -party marketplace integrations and they just use us for the point- ofale side some of them are point- ofale systems that have a couple direct integrations but use us for everything else. And so that's commonplace in this industry. That's not new. Um, so for us, it's it's really something that isn't going to shock a lot of people but I think the important part that we need to always maintain and that we will is to create an even playing field. Ah, koala module and how it says today is going to work and use the exact same api that we make available to everybody so it doesn't matter whether you're you know billion dollar publicly traded grubhub you're using the same api that a new startup is using on the online ordering side that built to our system. And that's the same as we what koal is going to be using so making sure that we have an even playing field for everybody is is important and to be honest, the the co-opetition is not new. It's something that's been around for a while. 07:45.87 vigorbranding Yeah I love that it's um, it's It's part of I think a bigger issue too or not issue. But I think a new wave of challenges that are coming because the restaurant industry was so far behind in technology comparatively to other industries that are way ahead. Um. 08:02.41 vigorbranding I think we're going to start to see a lot more of this convergence of tech. Um, how do you see that playing out now. Obviously you know you know the the Chali roadmap. Ah even the stuff that we're not allowed to know yet. Um, but as you look around the the landscape. 08:19.10 Sterling _Chowly_ Is it. 08:20.87 vigorbranding Um, is this something that you're cheering on like this consolidation converging. Um and and where do you think the next step is going to be with this. Um, once we've aced the the combination of pos on online ordering What's the next um world that we're going to enter into. 08:35.93 Sterling _Chowly_ Yeah, so when when we think about the the convergence or the the consolidation and the tech space. You've got you had globs of venture capital poured into tech tech companies into the restaurant space and they all focused on a specific problem to solve because. Restaurants are deceptively difficult business models and people often underestimate how complicated it is and how big a business you can build solving one really meaningful pain point that restaurants have so you created a ton of these companies in all different spots. And as you've seen customer or as you've seen restaurants you know, go through last year where you just saw this crazy increase in labor costs and food cost all of a sudden it made a lot more sense for them to maybe I can reduce vendors save a few dollars here I might not get best of breed. But I'll still get enough for me to kind of make the advances and technology to meet my my consumers where they are and so you started to see a lot more of that consolidation and so I I feel that the restaurant industry is going through a bundling cycle right now. And it's not uncommon for industries to go through bundling and unbundling cycles. We weren't through a big unbundling cycle where best to breed was really taking place because the acceleration that covid you know, provided for restaurants and now you're starting to see a bit of a bundling cycle. Ah, and so. 09:47.89 vigorbranding Um, and. 10:05.28 Sterling _Chowly_ Yeah, you're going to see some of it but at the same time There's so much innovation coming in the restaurant industry so you're seeing consolidation on certain features. But you're still seeing tons of innovation in new ones you're seeing you know what's next I mean dynamic pricing is going to really take off this year that's a new and kind of separate. Ah, you know piece of technology that's going to go and it's going to grow a ton companies like sauce pricing and and juicer you know I'm they're the talk of the show and so you're gonna be seeing a lot of that you're seeing a lot on the data side. So you're seeing a lot of data consolidation. Not just from the point of sale. But how do I get my what. 10:25.37 vigorbranding Yep. 10:43.43 Sterling _Chowly_ You know my food costs my labor costs my sales and my customer and my payments all in 1 place. So I can look at these things together and so I think you're going to see just as much innovation in new companies and new product lines as you're going to see on the consolidation side. But I think the consolidation has to make sense. It has to pair well together consolidation for consolidation's sake I don't think is helpful to anybody. 11:07.24 vigorbranding Yeah I think it's a natural progression that you kind of talk about I mean what we saw is We had these Og old Guard Pus systems that sort of just tacked online ordering on as a oh yeah and we and we do that? Um, and I think what's great about um the innovation world or whatever you want to call it is. 11:17.59 Sterling _Chowly_ This is. 11:24.49 vigorbranding People see that and they say hey this actually is not good and that's like that is the seed of innovation we can do it better and if we can find a way to tap into that system. Well now we have a nice path forward. So you're right? It is this like natural ebb and flow. Where innovation really is the driver as people zero in on the pain points of those like micro. Not even maybe micro but like little bits of the of the picture that are already there from the Pos system. So they're focused on their machines. They're focused on their hardware. Maybe their software online orderings tacked on and actually it's funny because I see that happen a lot with email marketing. 11:59.31 Sterling _Chowly_ Is it. 12:01.30 vigorbranding Feel like it's like hey we have online ordering and email marketing is a thing too Anyway, the online ordering and you're like right? but that is such a huge thing that could be so much better with segmentation and automation and all these things but you just sort of crammed it on there. Ah I'm looking at you toast I'm sorry. But. 12:10.72 Sterling _Chowly_ Um, yes. 12:20.53 Sterling _Chowly_ Um. 12:21.57 vigorbranding Email marketing system is terrible and you could tell it's an afterthought. Um, so if you just open up a little bit guys then then other email marketing Anyway, all right off topic but the other thing that you mentioned too. Yeah. 12:25.32 Sterling _Chowly_ It. No, it's but but it's a good point because it's box checking tech right? like I need to check a box on this Rfp or I need to say that I have it I mean the amount of the amount of restaurants who say well I have to have loyalty right because in in the head they're like I need it and then I dig in and I'm like well what. Loyalty mean like what? what are the features that do it I get answers from being able to reorder something to email to things that are more of a crm and there's this huge sloth of things and a lot of a lot of companies especially tech companies get a deal done. They do box checking. 13:05.61 vigorbranding Right. 13:07.47 Sterling _Chowly_ And that was exactly what I wanted to do avoidid when we looked at Koal I wanted this to really make sense really be complimentary I wanted the missions do a line you know I wanted core values to align like it had to make sense for it really to truly work in my head. 13:21.94 vigorbranding Yeah, it's interesting. Um, you know, bringing up the loyalty side of things. Ah there sales people are always to blame I'm sorry guys I love you. But it's always that you know because it's like you're so good at your job. But. The first question hasn't been asked which is like do I need another app on my phone and and if it's just to check the box that I came here isn't there a better way now you know friends at big check and I'm sure you've run into them before Sam Standovich and and ah Jason Jason um great guys. 13:41.30 Sterling _Chowly_ Um, this. 13:49.53 Sterling _Chowly_ Course. 13:54.00 vigorbranding I mean they took that and ran I got to hear them talk um last year a little bit about it and they just they've connected it to the thing that matters most which is your payment mechanism and it's like yes we want to benefit you if you come here often. We don't need you to download an app I'm at the point now like where the only time an app really matters is if it's. Completely built with the customer in mind like Starbucks like Papa John's like some of these well-designed apps that are out there these out-of-the-box solutions are just that it's it's it's a loyalty. Yeah and not loyalty. It's ah it's a repeat traffic tracker and a fast track to getting into a mobile order. Um, have you seen have you I mean do you agree and do you see a world where those experiences are going to become better and more worth it because I've I've heard leaders basically say like we did the app and we paid for it and um, it just doesn't work for us. 14:48.31 Sterling _Chowly_ Yeah, it is a It's a hot topic because there are situations where it it really depends on the intrinsic value that you're providing So when I when I talk to to restaurants and they say I want an app you really dig in and and understand why and I have found that. Typically when they want the app to want the app while they go with a vendor who checks the box and they get in what they they get out what they put in but I've also seen situations where ah, they've wanted to get the mobile app because it's an it's they're meeting where their consumers want the. 15:18.39 vigorbranding Um, here. 15:27.35 Sterling _Chowly_ Have customers who actually want to interact this way when you're on mobile you have you can actually create easier flows. You can make it easier to order. You can build all of really good hospitable experience in it and then all of a sudden you've seen it like literally make them more money because all of a sudden they know that 10% of their traffic's going through. 15:41.43 vigorbranding Are. 15:47.24 Sterling _Chowly_ App because that's what their consumers are using the app has a 2.9 rating on the app store has a crappy conversion rate then they get 1 and they say hey we already know we have customers here. We want to give them a better experience and you build it with that intention. All the sudden you have a 4.9 rating on the app store. You're converting 70% other users that start in order and all of a sudden you went from 10% of your sales to 20% of the sales and it's almost all incremental. That's when it makes a difference That's when you're providing that intrinsic value. So we we have this discussion a ton internally on like what are we doing with the mobile app. And on my side I'm like ah we need to provide intrinsic value like we're not going to make the box checking product. That's not what I but I want us to do um and so when we provide that intrinsic value I think it is there. So I think that having that has tons of advantages to both restaurants big and small. Ah, but it has to be done with this intent and it has to be done deliberately and if you do it that way. That's how I think you can provide a great experience and at the end of the day make the restaurant more money and make their customers happier. 16:53.70 vigorbranding Yeah, love that and in online ordering I think is probably the better approach to really thinking about loyalty loyalties beginning start with repeat traffic repeat purchases and having a fantastic um experience time in timeout whether it's digital. Physical in Personson or even non-transactional and so if you have control over that online ordering report and you have the look there then it makes a lot of sense that you could easily start to push that into what does loyalty really look like and how do we reward it. How do we recognize it? um. And and it sounds like that's what koalas the acquisition of Koala is giving you almost a basis to start to approach. Um, maybe I'm digging into something you shouldn't talk about but it seems like that's the path forward right? yeah. 17:34.81 Sterling _Chowly_ But yeah, we we have so much work to do on. You know, getting getting the the first party experience the mobile app experience our third party experience making all the data we have enough on our plate right now I'm not not trying to add big things like that. Right now we have we have some great partners today on that side that are are experts in this and that's that's what we want to let them do. 18:02.86 vigorbranding I love it if it's being considered blink twice I'm just kidding all right? So no, that's great so you did bring up a topic that so I do think we're going to have Carl from juicer on the show here soon? Um I'm excited about it I am a. 18:16.64 Sterling _Chowly_ Um, excellent. 18:20.34 vigorbranding Unk Bullwark against dynamic pricing. Ah yeah, like like don't buy into it I get it from the operator side. It is so sexy to be able to make the money you want to make I think it's going to be a loyalty killer or at least in the way it's being thought about now. So tell me your I would love to hear your hot takes on dynamic pricing and how do you think. 18:21.43 Sterling _Chowly_ Yeah I bet. 18:40.25 vigorbranding We can launch dynamic pricing without harming our our loyalists the people who they know that with tax. My pizza is going to be 1172 and now all of a sudden because it's Friday at six p m my pizza is 1892 um, how do we. Tackle that right. 19:00.58 Sterling _Chowly_ Ah, yeah I I think there's a I can take this in a lot of different directions. Ah but let me start out by dynamic pricing is not applied to every purchase. Ah the same. 19:20.41 Sterling _Chowly_ There's there's a handful of ways that dynamic pricing can be kind of dispatched to make sure that you're not harming that that experience to your loyal loyalless and I can think of ah a ton that are literally live today and ones that will probably be live as the end of years. The technology gets better and better. But I think to start most of the uses I'm seeing on dynamic pricing are with third -party marketplaces and on these third -party marketplaces customers are paying for convenience. It's not a very It's not the most profitable channel for the restaurants and the operators. And so what dynamic pricing is really saying like hey if you want the added convenience. It's pushing that cost to the consumer when they're really busy and they have the opportunity and they say you know I have 100 orders to fill in this hour I can only fill eighty. how do I how do I handle that how do I maximize and optimize my my operations well basically making that eighty first order slightly more expensive and then the eighty second order a little bit more in the eighty third order a little bit more now. All of a sudden. The customers are paying for the convenience and ones that they really want it. 20:13.62 vigorbranding Or. 20:30.23 Sterling _Chowly_ And the restaurant is being able to benefit from like the convenience and like this is going to stress my system. It's going to be harder and harder for me to ah execute this order these orders so by the time I get to the one hundred and first order the risk in the executing it well to provide a good experience is already. There. So if I can help taper that down. So I don't get that high and I can optimize those orders so they're profitable. It's helping really share the risk. It's helping diversify that and it's why it's actually better for the customer because the customer look this restaurant's just too busy to take this order right now if you really really want it. Like you can have it but you can also self self select out so that you don't have a bad experience because it's hard to execute orders the busier that it gets so I think that's one case where it's really smart. You can always buy it to your third parties but not your first party so your loyal customers are going to be owing from your first party icing groups starting to do subscription services. You could easily set it so anyone who's part of like your subscription. Service always gets like standard pricing there. There's a number of ways that you can handle this and look restaurants are really good at being hospitable. They're getting better at doing it in the new digital world and I think that yeah when it first starts out. It's going to be shaky. You're going to have some grumpy customers. 21:26.71 vigorbranding Um, a. 21:45.49 Sterling _Chowly_ But we're going to figure this out and as long as technology companies continue to be mer first think about their operators and think about the experience I think that this is going to work and it's going to be normal. It's going to be standard. You know you know 12 to twenty four months from now. 21:58.30 vigorbranding Yeah I mean how how do how do you think that we prevent from getting into more of ah ah the same situation that happened with travel right? with Ota's online travel advisors because that's that's the other thought side is like everyone's like look at it worked for the travel industry I'm like did it because like now. The margins are even more razor thin. The competition is even fiercer. Um, that doesn't seem like a really good output for the industry like I get everything you're saying I don't disagree with what you said either I think it makes sense. It's almost like expenditure-d driven throttling as opposed to literal throttling. 22:34.95 Sterling _Chowly_ Yeah, exactly. 22:37.70 vigorbranding Um, but you know this this all of a sudden like I Love my hamburger from you know, sterling's burger shack but man that thing's double now. So I guess I'll try this other one that I wasn't going to try now I become a little more a little less loyal right. 22:54.46 Sterling _Chowly_ Um, yeah, but you're also trying out another restaurant and the other restaurant has a better burger. Ultimately, that's better for you as the consumer right? So like if you know at the end of the day. There's a bounce you know when Chali first started the third party marketplace. 23:00.38 vigorbranding Sure yeah. 23:12.42 Sterling _Chowly_ Ecosystem was really different I mean uber eats wasn't a marketplace. It was literally a guy drive around his car with hot subbs around a busy block for a couple hours during lunch. Um, you know e 24 was actually one of the biggest ones at the time so it was very different ah very different industry when we joined and. 23:19.48 vigorbranding A. 23:24.94 vigorbranding Oh wow, Yeah, go back. 23:32.37 Sterling _Chowly_ I remember going through investor conversations and everyone told me the same thing. It's like us's just like the travel industry. It's just like the travel. Everything's gonna end up just like the expedia of the world and my ah my counter to that was that absolutely not. This industry is completely different. Um, the amount of. Diversity you have in the supply side is great half of the restaurant industry is small operators independent Only half are big chains so you're you're going to run into issues. There's only a dozen airlines and there's 3 that do like 80% of travel so you don't have the same big player mentality. 24:07.52 vigorbranding Um, a. 24:10.13 Sterling _Chowly_ You also have a crazy amount of reinvigoration and into the supply 3% of all restaurants go to business every single month and 3.1% open up new every single month you have a constant rotation of supply and so your players are always changing. This is not at all how the travel industry works. Um, not to mention the business models are completely Different. You can't commoditize a really great burger like it's just not how it works.. The airlines are very much commoditized. The experiences are very similar. 24:34.68 vigorbranding Um, a. 24:40.41 Sterling _Chowly_ Ah, in a restaurant. They're completely different and all it takes is a new general manager new ownership and even at the same brand The experience will change a ton that type of like diverse Variability. That's just constant in your face makes it a completely different Industry. So I've never thought that it was going to turn like the travel agencies. I get on the surface. There's similarities but the fundamental business model that restaurants are is very very unique and very complex very different from most other businesses. 25:09.60 vigorbranding Yeah,, that's ah, it's a great response to it. Um, you know taking into account like travel in general. Um, and again mother of all inventions. So if it does create the ah you know the pain for people there will be someone that comes along to try to solve that pain. It's the beauty of ah. Free market enterprises and you know ability to innovate. 25:29.85 Sterling _Chowly_ If if if point- ofsale systems and third party marketplaces built their products with open apis in minds and were really like embracing of moving data chali would have never existed. 25:42.99 vigorbranding Um, yeah. 25:45.26 Sterling _Chowly_ We existed to solve that pain point and that pain point didn't exist before 2012 right it it didn't barely existed when we started really the problem really exacerbated 2019 2020 so it's ah it's the same thing. 25:53.45 vigorbranding Um, right. 26:02.93 vigorbranding Yeah, absolutely love it. So one of the things obviously that that sparked I think a rapid embracing of technology. We were kind of embracing it as an industry but um, you know, being forced into our houses and having to find a different way to get our food really just kicked it into the highest gear possible. Um, do you think that the behaviors have permanently changed like from consumers like obviously some things have come back but not to the way that we saw it. Um, do you think there's a world where dining in person becomes. More adopted than it has been in the last year or so or do you think we're we're in the hey the way I get my food is from the palm of my hand. 26:47.34 Sterling _Chowly_ Yeah I think ah, yeah, like covid accelerated things a ton it. It took consumer adoption and drastically increased it. But you know what also has happened over the past three or four years that had nothing to do with covid. Is that a larger percentage of the gen z generation has disposable income and is entering the workforce. This is a generation that grew up with tablets grew up with screens. They've been order on doordashson's before high school so you're going to see the natural progression that we have but then you also saw each of these generations. Take a big jump during the pandemic because they had to so baby boomers went from being 2 out of 10 wanting to order app from 4 out of 10 that's double and you saw you know gen z's always been I think like 8 out of 10 but now genzrep you know is double represents instead of you know. 27:30.66 vigorbranding Um. 27:38.19 Sterling _Chowly_ 3% of the workforce at 6% I'm making up those numbers. Someone will fact, check me and correct me on it. But you're seeing kind of both of those factors come into play and you know restaurants again. They need to meet consumers where they are and so that'll be part of it. So Yeah I think it's definitely changed but I Also don't think On-premise is going away. No matter how much I love the convenience of getting my food. You know, delivered to me or I go pick it up I Also love sitting down Love breaking bread with people interacting with people ordering food getting recommendations like that experience I don't think goes away at All. It's just kind of the the percentage share. That that people kind of want to enjoy their food. 28:19.60 vigorbranding Yeah I Love that I think it it makes the interior design and the architectural and and the customer experience I think even more important. Um so many branches open up and it's like throw throw tables in there. Get some paint on the walls or vinyl If you're the person I'm thinking Of. Um, and you know just give them give them a roof and give them a seat and then get them out. Um, you know so we can turn the table but I do think now is the time as as I don't want to use the word threat but I will but as digital threatens the viability of our dining rooms. The question becomes like what makes my dining room. Worth. Sitting in you know and and I think Tech desperately has a role to play there to make the ordering experience even better I've said it before I've I've made some people mad about it. But I'm like I'm not quite sure that my waiter is always the better Choice. Um. 28:57.99 Sterling _Chowly_ Um, yeah. 29:11.39 Sterling _Chowly_ It yeah a hundred percent I mean look at there's there's restaurants who like look at jets pizza. For example, the average jets pizza has to have like 3 or 2 tables in it. It is it is meant for like it is meant for pickoff. 29:14.70 vigorbranding The way we use them. Yeah. 29:19.00 vigorbranding E. 29:27.10 vigorbranding Um, bright. 29:28.70 Sterling _Chowly_ Is meant for delivery that is how they've designed their business model. That's what their consumers have wanted. They've leaned into it. They added things like text ordering super early and like that's when they're focused and they've done really? Well then I can point to a number of other different change that. Never did delivery or or pick up even during a pandemic when they didn't do it and that was another route to go and they're very successful and I enjoy going to these places I mean during the pandemic you saw I saw in Chicago especially there's. 1 2 and even 3 michelin star restaurants that were doing pickup and to go and they actually did really well and when the pandemic ended they ended those services but what they did do is they got involved in separate companies that focused on that and now you have literally you have ah. 30:00.98 vigorbranding A a. 30:18.17 Sterling _Chowly_ Are restaurant groups. So the guy like guys from Millenia For example, ah you know you have basically similar quality that they had on their takeout for finish at home and now it's available for delivering you can order it through an appp right? And so sometimes you want that super high quality food. You're going to finish it at home like that's its own experience in itself. 30:34.72 vigorbranding Right. 30:36.80 Sterling _Chowly_ There's a company called called entree doing this out of Chicago and and so that the experiences are shifting but the fundamentals are all there and again it's just meeting your customers where they are. 30:49.87 vigorbranding I Love that. So obviously so far it's already a pretty darn big year for chali. Um, what's next man like what are you? What are you able to kind of tease out there. What does the future hold for the company. 31:02.54 Sterling _Chowly_ Yeah, now we've ah we've got a big year in the store. This is just the beginning in January we we launched our new restaurant control center with some really cool, unique features that a lot of restaurants haven't seen and kind of putting them back in the driver seat giving them more control. Um, we've got a few features in there now we're going to pump a lot more into that throughout the year you've got the the bringing Koala in-house. So we're going to be able to have a combined offering for the s and b space. Um, you know right around midyear timeframe and there's there's more to come. 31:38.15 Sterling _Chowly_ We're we're not done yet. We've got a lot. We want to accomplish we think we're really well positioned to do it and you know to be honest, it's it's all for the sake of helping restaurants and I've never had a clearer picture of what we can do to help them. So yeah, more to come. And know it's only march third but I'm excited you know for? What's next. 31:57.14 vigorbranding Yeah, it's a big year. Um, final question then I'll let you get back to your day ah might be the hardest 1 of all if you had 1 final meal. What would you eat where would you eat it and why. 32:09.46 Sterling _Chowly_ Ah, man um I know it's probably a corny answer but it would probably be my mom's homemade Mac and cheese that she's been making for me since I was a kid. 32:22.71 vigorbranding Oh. 32:27.10 Sterling _Chowly_ Ah, it's ah I've never had anything quite like it. It's It's unique. Reminds me a home and I love it growing up and still love it every time I go visitor so that would probably be it. 32:40.60 vigorbranding I did not corny at all I've said it before my my final meal is Thanksgiving dinner. Um, you know I just I love it whenever I'm blue or feeling stressed out I find a way to make thingsgiving dinner and it's just the best. 32:44.41 Sterling _Chowly_ Um, nice. Oh yeah. 32:51.51 Sterling _Chowly_ Whatever whenever I'm balloons stressed out. It's usually pootine least healthy, but absolutely delicious thing. So you know that's that's probably the more common occurrence I can't get my mom to ship me Mac and cheese. You know too much. 32:56.78 vigorbranding Yeah, well. 33:04.15 vigorbranding I Can't blame you come on Mom step up a vet man. That's awesome. Well hey man thanks for being so candid. Thanks for everything you're doing for the industry I'm really excited about what's happening next with chali. 33:11.86 Sterling _Chowly_ Ah, not she's she's amazing. She's amazing. 33:24.90 vigorbranding Um I will have all the links to Chali and the ah and your social channels and all that stuff as well. But is there a way for people to connect with you directly sterling. 33:33.33 Sterling _Chowly_ Ah, yeah I mean look I'm I'm not hard to find very active on on Linkedin go through all that it's usually the best place to reach out, get people connected I go to a lot of conferences and shows love visiting. You know, different cities restaurants and things like that I so always happy to to chat. But. Mean our website's the best place for for chali information to get in contact with us if you fill out that form. We reach out. You know, literally in minutes. So we're not, we're not hard to get a hold of. 34:00.60 vigorbranding I Love it man. Thanks again for all your time I appreciate it and we'll we'll catch up real soon. Hopefully in person. 34:05.91 Sterling _Chowly_ Thanks for having me Joseph.

David is a performance excellence coach focused on teaching, consulting and executive coaching for small to medium sized businesses, including many restaurants. David spent six years as a business/excellence coach for Pal's Excellence Institute. Pal's – or Pal's Suddenly Service – is a drive-through only 31-location restaurant chain located in northeast Tennessee and southwestern Virginia. The restaurant is known for its speed, hospitality, cleanliness and people. Pal's relies heavily on word-of-mouth marketing. That word-of-mouth allows Pal's to spend roughly half as much on marketing as some of its similar competitors. According to David, COVID gave restaurants a second chance to make a first impression. Restaurants that were struggling before the pandemic were struggling after the pandemic, pointing to an internal flaw that contributes to that struggle. Some restaurants used the pandemic as a chance to reset and improve themselves to make a second first impression and win over new customers after the pandemic ended. Quotes “What we see now is a lot of sculptures and spokescharacters have been discontinued. Architecturally speaking, we're getting modern boxes that don't have much life.” (Joseph) “If you look at the new (restaurant) designs, they're all basically the same. You really want to stand out in a sea of sameness.” (David) “How often in life do you get a second chance to make a first impression? If customers are coming back (after the pandemic), we have a chance to win them over and leave all that past behind.” (David) “If people aren't buying it, it's because they don't want it.” (Joseph) “If you think about a restaurant and what it does, it's really a manufacturing operation. You're manufacturing food in real time for a specific order based on your menu.” (David) “Systems are one thing, but activating them tends to be where the rubber meets the road and where most people hit the road.” (Joseph) “Twenty percent of the effort is putting a system in place and 80% of the effort is sustaining it. You have to make it a habit. You have to change in a way that it's harder to go back than it is to go forward.” (David) Transcript 00:00.91 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by my friend David Jones he's the president of a company called the excellence advisory which we'll get into in a little bit. Um, but before we do David why don't you say hello and give a little bit of backstory. 00:11.50 David M_ Jones Well hello joseph and thanks for having me on today I considered a personal and professional honor to be here with you speaking to your audience and I'm actually an engineer by training 25 years in corporate America and then I had the great blessing and ability to work with. Pals through their business excellence institute which I hope we get to talk about and did that for 7 years and ah and today I do teaching consulting and coaching executive coaching for small to medium sized businesses including a lot of restaurants. 00:49.83 vigorbranding That's awesome. Yeah, so pals is um, essentially what prompted our connection on Linkedin. Um, and honestly it's a concept I had never heard of they're they're not here in Georgia or in Central Pennsylvania so I just never come across them. But what really grabbed my attention and prompted our discussion was. Um, pal's sudden service is what it's called has these amazing huge sculptures on their buildings sculptures of their food like hamburgers and drinks and all kinds of things and this just struck me as such an amazing thing. Um. Before we get into why they're doing that can you give us just a little bit of a rundown about what pals is all about. 01:28.79 David M_ Jones Oh absolutely. Yeah, it's so it's a drive through only 31 unit chain in East Tennessee and Southwest Virginia they are known for their speed their hospitality, their service, their cleanliness, their value. And they're people. They're amazing

Meredith is the CEO of Empower Delivery. The company's software combines the consumer journey, the product journey, and the logistics journey into one integrated piece of software. The software enables all restaurants to profitably and sustainably serve the growing consumer demand for delivered meals. Meredith is also the co-author of “Delivering the Digital Restaurant,” a book that explores the world of off-premise food and the massive disruption facing American restaurants through first-hand accounts of restaurateurs, food industry veterans and start-up entrepreneurs. Many restaurants face complexity in the number of tools and apps they use to manage their day-to-day operations. The restaurant industry is showing unprecedented levels of technological innovation – particularly when it comes to ordering – which makes third-party apps and aggregators important for streamlining incoming orders. Innovation is also being seen in restaurant loyalty programs, which have come a long way since the Subway punch cards of the past. Quotes “A lot of restaurant brands were forced into adopting delivery (during the pandemic) when maybe they otherwise didn't want to.” (Meredith) “For operations, it's really about eliminating complexity. There are so many channels and consumers are coming in so many different ways that it creates complexity. As you eliminate complexity, you will find that you have better financial outcomes.” (Meredith) “Every facet of the restaurant industry is being revolutionized by technology.” (Joseph) “Not every server can be the best, but technology can take the elements of that best server and make them consistent across every server. Technology used well in that setting should make the experience better.” (Meredith) “The restaurant industry is one of the only industries where all five senses are engaged.” (Joseph) “A really sophisticated digital restaurant is using 15-20 pieces of software.” (Meredith) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by my friend Meredith Sandlin she's the Ceo of empowered delivery and the co-author of delivering the digital restaurant if you are on Linkedin Chances are you have seen her or heard from her because she is out there rocking it. In the media talking about digital or delivery digital. All that stuff. So Marilyn before we hop in while you say hello and give a little bit of backstory. 00:24.58 Meredith Hi there. Well so good to be on the show. Um I've been listening and it is such a good podcast. So I'm excited to be part of it. Um, so yeah, my name is Meredith Sandland and I am the Ceo of empower delivery as well as the co-author of. Delivering the digital restaurant. Ah, your roadmap to the future of food and also the forthcoming delivering the digital restaurant the path to digital maturity which will be out in a couple of weeks here maybe by the time this podcast hears I don't know we'll find out. 00:54.94 vigorbranding Dad's awesome if it is. We'll definitely have a link to it or at the very least have a link to pre-order I'm excited to get my hands on it. Um, you probably can't really see it folks but right back here and on my bookshelf is the book and so um I'm excited to read the new one. Um. 01:08.90 Meredith Um, if you think awesome. 01:12.15 vigorbranding So delivery. It's acing it is just like a really big challenge for restaurant brands large and small. So I think before the pandemic a lot were sort of adverse to it because they didn't really see the value. Ah their format wasn't set up for delivery so on and so forth all all the excuses and then um. 01:16.84 Meredith Move on this. 01:29.71 vigorbranding One day we won't mention the pandemic in these things but it's still we're still in the after effects and what we know is it sort of slingshot at everyone to have to adopt immediately. Um, but it has become a begrudging necessity for a lot of restaurant leaders.

Seasoned is the only social community exclusively for service industry workers. The app allows hospitality workers to connect and share insights and experiences. It's also a job listing resource that connects restaurants looking for staff members with potential employees looking for work. Traditional hiring websites aren't well suited for hourly jobs and careers in the hospitality industry. Seasoned solves that. When it comes to hiring, the hospitality industry faces challenges from other hourly sectors, which often offer jobs that are less stressful than restaurant work. It's essential for restaurants to focus on the benefits that they can provide to their employees in order to attract and retain quality workers. Centralized ownership, not franchise ownership, often does a better job of creating a successful HR and hiring model. Quotes “The pandemic had a historic impact. It slingshotted all of us past the laziness and apprehension and forced us to change and one big change is the labor market.” (Joseph) “If you look at the actual things that you gain from working in a restaurant, there's an incredible number of attractive qualities that you gain from working in a restaurant. The skills that you build in a restaurant are going to help you wherever you go.” (Zach) “I was a busser for six months, and to this day whenever I have a bad day I think to myself, ‘At least I'm not bussing tables.'” (Joseph) “With younger workers, what you're hiring for is attitude, reliability and coachability. You can teach anyone to do the job within the restaurant, but having those attributes [...] you can teach anyone to be great.” (Zach) “Instead of ‘You work for us,' it's ‘We work for you.' That shift is really impactful (when hiring and retaining talent).” (Zach) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by my friend Zach Anderson he's brand partner at seasoned a system that we're going to dive into here in a bit but before we do Zach say hello give a little bit of backstory on yourself. 00:11.91 Zach Anderson Thanks Joseph hi next meet everyone. My name's Zach Anderson my like Joseph mentioned I'm a brand partner over it seasoned I've been in the restaurant space for about 15 years across a mix of both operations as well as on the vendor and supplier side working in. Various capacities across things like ad media to voice ai kiosk hardware and most recently I've been over here at season working on our mission to help bring the service industry together by offering a community-based product for restaurant workers to engage each other and find great jobs. 00:45.49 vigorbranding That's amazing. Yeah I'm really excited to pry in I'm I'm kind of holding myself back because we will get to it but I do want to talk about the the big l word right now which is the labor issues that we're challenged with in the industry. Um, from my point of view. It's kind of a long time coming. Um, anybody that thought we you know restaurants could continue to operate the the way that they had for as long as they have just really was blinding themselves in a lot of ways. So I'm going to use the pw word now I'm getting sick of saying it. But since the pandemic you know the pandemic had this historic impact I think it's slingshot at all of us. Ah. Past the laziness or apprehension and just forced us to change and 1 big change is the labor market not just the availability of people but the people willingness to work the work ethic and the passion for the industry that used to be there. Um. And and it's persisted so. It's not going away behaviors have successfully changed I would say so what do you think is leading this to be permanent. Um, and how do we start to chip away at rethinking the employee experience for restaurant brands. 01:58.33 Zach Anderson Certainly the the recovery from where we were at from staffing hasn't hit to where we were um, we're still probably somewhere betwe

Thanx is a leading loyalty and guest engagement platform for restaurants. The company, founded by Zach Goldstein in 2011, helps businesses embrace digital purchasing, capture greater customer data, and take action on that information to personalize guest engagement. Restaurants can take a page from the Delta playbook – which includes the potential for free first class upgrades (a perk that costs nothing to Delta) – including the use of secret menu items. Loyalty programs should not be dependent upon an app because most consumers won't download the app. Instead, the loyalty program should be embedded in the web ordering experience. The app is still useful, as users of a restaurant's app have high lifetime value. Consumers respond to non-discount offers quite effectively. For example, a restaurant can offer loyal customers a VIP experience that allows those customers to try new menu items (along with a non-VIP friend) before the items are available publicly. The entry point into a loyalty program shouldn't be by downloading an app. What Thanx does is builds the loyalty enrollment into the digital ordering experience because 70% of online ordering comes via the restaurant's website, not via an app. Quotes “The playbook is pretty simple. You need to own the relationship with your customer, because if you sacrifice that to the third party, then you have no control over their lifetime value.” (Zach) “Loyalty is no longer about just rote rewards programs and discounts and more around personalization. That really matters, because as you deliver more personalization, you become less dependent on discounts as your loyalty mechanism and can still be effective.” (Zach) “Can you imagine what McDonald's top one percent customers would do if they had year round McRibs? That's the type of thing people care about.” (Zach) “There are a lot of restaurant leaders who have been convinced that the app is the answer. It's actually not the answer. It's one answer to a bigger need.” (Joseph) “Data is king. At the end of the day, you have to have data. And there's no other way in the restaurant business to capture that data unless you have a loyalty program.” (Zach) “It's really hard to drive repeat purchasing if you don't know who your best customers are. That's the value of data. It's a risk to not have it and it's an opportunity when you have it.” (Zach) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone today I am joineded by my friend Zach Goldstein he is the Ceo and founder of thanks a system that we are going to dig into but we're going to talk about a lot of other things today too before we do Zach say hello give a little bit of backstory. 00:15.63 Zach Goldstein Yeah, pleasure. Really happy to be with you. My background started before thanks and working with restaurants and retailers to to really build customer lifetime value and that has become a passion of mine. Ah, That's really what thanks does targeted at Restaurants. How do we help them identify where their best customers are and make more of their customers. Those best customers. 00:38.65 vigorbranding I Love it. So a few years ago you you penned an article and I think this this is what really struck me and um, you know serves as a basis for the episode a little bit but that article is called the 4 horsemen of the restaurant apocalypse which of course is a very doom gloom. It's very like whoa. Um, what does that mean and I think the article centers on taking some lessons from the travel industry and the effect that online travel agencies otas for short had on evolving our experiences as travelers. Um. 1 of those big influences that the ots had was I think it shifted the industry into a pricing game. It made it a commodity Essentially so restaurant leaders now are talking about what you kind of reference here which is taking queues like dynamic pricing. For instance, how do you think. Dynamic pricing can actually benefit the i

Native Foods is a fast-casual vegan restaurant chain that operates in California, Oregon, Colorado, and Illinois. Carin has held leadership positions at Red Robin, Applebee's and Wendy's. Dealing with an unpredictable supply chain is the biggest challenge for Native Foods Native Foods is careful to only use healthy ingredients and avoid ingredients found on many “do not eat” lists. Native Foods locations gravitate toward the coasts where vegan and plant-based trends are more popular. The Native Foods team tests ads targeted to vegans and ads targeted to flexitarians but marketing targeted to vegans still performs best in driving traffic. Quotes “Every organization out there – whether it's plant-based or meat-based – is struggling with supply chain issues. One of the advantages for plant-based restaurants is that we can make anything (we need). We can make any of our products in-house.” (Carin) “One of the first things I did when I came onboard was reduce sodium levels by 25%. And honestly, they taste better!” (Carin) “One thing that I've been notably ignorant about is that veganism is huge in the African American community.” (Joseph) “Vegans are much more adventurous and willing to try new things on the menu.” (Carin) “Since you have such a plant-forward concept, the consistency of ingredients has to be a priority.” (Joseph) “The innovation that we've seen in our chicken substitutes (is amazing). We've had guests come across the counter and say ‘This is supposed to be a vegan restaurant! You are serving me real chicken!” (Carin) “When the pandemic hit, everyone in the restaurant industry started working well together.” (Carin) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by my friend Karen Stutz she's the president and Ceo of native foods and if you are not familiar with native foods yet you're about to get very familiar. It's an interesting concept and we're going to dive into that and so much more on today's episode before we do Karen say hello and give a little bit of backstory. 00:17.90 Carin Stutz Hey Joseph it's fun to spent a little time together and thanks for the opportunity to talk about native foods about the industry native foods. We always say we're kind of the og of vegan restaurants right? We we started back in 9094 long before anybody was really thinking about plant-based food. So. The brand has really stood the test of time we have 12 locations. We're in 3 states. We're in California Colorado in Illinois and it's just the boy what a time to be in plant based dining right now you know any kind of trend that you look you know at what's going on in the industry top trends top ideas. Plant based this if it's not number one. It's usually number 2 so we're having a lot of fun in this cute little innovative brand. 01:03.93 vigorbranding I love it. So speaking about you first a little bit here. Um you this isn't your first rodeo and I'm not very convinced that 1 rodeo would be enough to make you a pro anyway. Um, but you've held a number of leadership positions. You've been at the helm of red Robin Applebee's wendy's. 01:09.94 Carin Stutz Um, true. 01:14.38 Carin Stutz A. 01:21.70 vigorbranding How how do you make the transition from brands of that size to a brand that is scrappy growing and the size I think you said 12 Um, and then how do you make the shift from brands that are selling an um, omnivorous offering. 01:23.94 Carin Stutz No. 01:40.53 vigorbranding Um, basically over to a plant-based only offering how's that shift look. 01:43.67 Carin Stutz Yeah, 2 I mean 2 great questions. There. So first of all, let's just tackle tackle the size question look the the 1 big thing working for the big brands you have resources all right I mean I I have a lot of go to people and with Applebee's I was ah, basically cheap operating officer for almost 2000 locations so tons of resources tons of ah of marketi

Adenah Note about escaping war torn country. Today, she's the owner of four IHOP franchises and founder of four restaurants of her own, including three locations of fast casual, farm-to-table, soul food restaurant Cornbread and her newest dining venture, Urban Vegan. Adenah opened her first IHOP in Irvington Township, New Jersey at the age of 27, making her one of the youngest IHOP franchisees in the country. Today, Adenah is the second largest employer in Irvington Township. Adenah's grandmother showed her how to overcome adversity to succeed and taught her the value of working hard every day. Supporting her community is important to Adenah. She believes that housing is a right and owns and operates affordable housing developments in several communities. During the early days of the pandemic, Adenah opened her restaurant's doors to help feed kids who were missing out on school lunches while schools were shut down. Quotes “People talk about luck all the time. Oftentimes I am the underdog. People always look at me and say, “She can't do this. She's not capable.” It's those doubts that fuel me.” (Adenah) “I think we have a stigma with underdogs that it's a bad thing. I would rather be an underdog than a leader. Being an underdog keeps you looking ahead, being a leader makes you look back. You always have to be looking over your shoulder as a leader and looking to see who's coming up on you.” (Joseph) “If I can be more successful, I can give back more (to my communities). I believe that we as a community have to take care of each other. When you have the opportunity to give, just do it.” (Adenah) “I learned from an early age (while starting at McDonald's) that the customer is always right. Another thing I learned was systems. There is a system for everything. So I knew when I started my businesses, we had to have a system.” (Adenah) “I started in the restaurant space through franchising. Franchising allows someone to come into a system that's already been tested and join that partnership.” (Adenah) “During the pandemic, we were told to ‘support local' but I reminded people that the McDonald's down the street is also local. It's owned by a local family and they hire local people. Support them, too.” (Joseph) “If you're persistent, you will get it. And if you're consistent, you will keep it.” (Adenah) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Hey everyone this morning I have the distinct pleasure of talking with my friend Adina Byo she is the founder at her own companies of which there are many. We're going to unpack all of them and all the efforts that Adena has been doing over the years before we jump in adna say hello and give a little bit of backstory. 00:18.60 adenah Hi Joseph my good new friend I just met with his beautiful new baby. Ah, my name is Adina Bio I am founder and Ceo of Adina Bio and companies and all that means is that we own 8 restaurants we own. 00:23.90 vigorbranding Um. 00:34.28 adenah Urban vegans we own four ihopbs we own 3 corn bread which is our own signature restaurants by the way as except for I have I wouldn't take credit for that. We have real estate in affordable housing. Um I believe fundamentally believe housing is a right. 00:45.61 vigorbranding Um. 00:53.71 adenah And I'm here as um as a conduit if I was to really say my purpose on this earth as a conit and I'm just grateful to be here with Joseph and just kind of get to know you a little bit that's all. 01:08.96 vigorbranding That's wonderful. Yeah, so you scratch the surface. Um, you're aware of many hats from entrepreneur to restaurant owner landlord developer franchisee. Um, you have a very ah. Notable portfolio of real estate. Um, you're self-described as a onewoman economic engine for the township of Irvington which is in New Jersey correct yep great so ah to say that you're busy. 01:31.65 adenah Yeah, yes, yes. 01:39.14 vigorbranding Pretty much an

Olga is the founder of OLLO Restaurant Loyalty which offers expertise in loyalty and CRM for restaurant chains. The company's key principle is simple: find out what your guests already like, then give them more of that – at scale – to drive sales. Email segmentation works best for brands with larger email databases in excess of 25,000 contacts. When segmenting for clients, Olga prefers to focus on product preference, dayparting, and spend preference. Loyalty programs can be an effective way to get customers to share their contact information and share their purchasing information. There are many email marketing services and tools available to restaurants. In most cases, if a restaurant isn't getting what they want from the tool, it's not because of the tool, but because the restaurant isn't using the tool correctly. Quotes “One of the biggest challenges (with email marketing) in the past few years has been the migration of so many people to the Gmail inbox, which has a “Promotions” folder. So a lot of our emails don't end up as in-box placements.” (Olga) “The key is figuring out how to become the communication that the recipient wants to open, because you can't make them. You have to get them to want to do it.” (Olga) “A lot of the email systems out there today do what's called segmentation, and I've seen it go wrong. For instance, I get Banana Republic emails. Oddly enough, I get more emails about ladies' dresses than I do about the stuff that I've actually bought.” (Joseph) “Demographics, I think, are long gone. The only place they have meaning is when you're trying to find people like me in other areas when you grow in scale.” (Joseph) “Email marketing is the most cost effective way to reach people who actually want to hear from you. Any other way of reaching them would cost you more money.” (Olga) “It's not that hard to build email marketing lists, but it's a shame that more restaurants don't do it. And once you build the list, you have to do something with it.” (Olga) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by my friend olga lopetegi she is the head of olo restaurant loyalty specialists and we're going to dive into email marketing and loyalty and all those things that's gonna be a great conversation. But first olga say hello and give a little bit of backstory. 00:14.18 Olga Um, hey hey Joseph nice and nice to see you here. So yeah I'm Olga Uppategi I've been in the restaurant world for close to 20 years now and I've um, worked with large restaurant chains over the years actually started out as ah and a very different australian lawyer and oil and gas. Um, so then he came we came to food sort of very roundab boat ways. Um, but for the last sweep. Almost four years now I've been running the loyalty consulting firm called olo consult and what we do with help restaurant chains that have loyalty and cm problems essentially around those chains around those problems with less effort and less resources than they would have to apply in-house. So learned a lot along the way about the restaurant restaurant business and the boat. What are the best ways to reach out to you guys. Lots of opinions. Lots of experience there. So happy to share it. 01:13.32 vigorbranding Awesome! So It's funny because I'm sure a lot of people who are listening already are like email I know how to do that. We do that already I've actually heard it firsthand a number of times but there really is a lot of Theory. There's a lot of information that goes into email marketing. And then there's a lot of ah conflation of email and loyalty Program. So I think to to start things off, let's help people figure Out. What is the difference between email marketing and loyalty and crm and all of that and what are the similarities. 01:47.63 Olga Yeah, and all ah it kind of tends to blunt together right? So at the end of the day all over those marketing communications and ah loyalty i

Liquid Death is a canned water company founded in 2017 with the tagline “Murder your thirst”. The company calls itself “a funny water company who hates corporate marketing as much as you do” with a mission to “make people laugh and get more of them to drink more water more often, all while helping to kill plastic pollution.” Much of the water industry is founded on concepts of purity and seeing that purity in the water, which is why nearly all bottled water is packaged in single-use plastic bottles. Liquid Death aims to change that with its aluminum can packaging. Wellness is a big part of its brand mission, including a use as a designated driver drink. The water category is largely a sea of sameness, with very little differentiation between various brands. Liquid Death's success lies in being different from other brands and targeting an audience (younger consumers) that isn't often targeted by other water brands. Quotes “Liquid Death is an evil plan to make the world healthier and more sustainable. We're doing that through trying to replace sugary and unhealthy beverages with water and replacing single-use plastic bottles with infinitely recyclable aluminum cans.” (Andy) “The (Liquid Death) brand has so many facets to it, people come into it in totally different ways. Some people love the environmental side of it. I've heard people say on podcasts, “Oh that sober water, Liquid Death.” We're not trying to be that, but we want to support anyone making healthier choices.” (Andy) “If you line up the water category, you ask yourself ‘which one of the same do you want?'” (Andy) “My job as the lead creative is to give everyone creative whiplash. That's the fun part about Liquid Death. You never know what we're going to do next.” (Andy) “In a world where everyone is trying to build a brand, I don't think of Liquid Death so much as a brand as it is a character.” (Andy) “We all know how a lot of brand managers manage their brands. It is very regimented. But most of us as humans are not one personality all the time. We have idiosyncrasies.” (Joseph) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone and today I am here with my friend Andy Pearson he's the vp of creative of liquid death before I hop in. Let's start it off right and crack a nice cold liquid death sparkling water. 00:12.29 Andy A yes. 00:15.26 vigorbranding While I take my first sip Annie say hello and give a little bit of backstory. Yeah cheers brother. 00:21.49 Andy Cheers man hey guys. Um I'm as you said I'm Andy Pearson I'm a vp of creative at liquid death which means basically anything that goes out the door that isn't water is is something that that I kind of look at and and help shape from social ah social stuff we're doing campaign work signage. Ah partnerships um, merch I mean kind of runs the gamut of basically anything that comes out of out of liquid death goes through me and before that I spent about 13 years on the advertising agency side as a. Copywriter and creative director at a number of um, fairly well well well respectced agencies I guess I'd say but I'm very happy to be a part of liquid death I've been there about a year now 01:04.38 vigorbranding Um, love it. Cool yeah, so we're going to get into it. Liquid death is for the uninitiated I do want to start off with an anecdote of my initiation so I had heard of liquid death in numerous times. Um. You know, ah the high level here is liquid liquid death is a water company and we'll put nuance on that throughout the episode I was at a trade show earlier this year I had a bottle of water. It'll go un names I happen to cross the liquid death. Ah. Event booth and I was like oh you know what? I've been meaning to try this, especially the mango cause I heard a lot of good things and my hands were full. So the young lady was like oh do me to hold that for you and so she held my water bottle passed me a liquid death and then she threw the existin

Wellspring is a health & wellness gift box and care package company providing turnkey solutions for human resources professionals across the globe. The employee-focused kits provide everything from better-for-you snacks to locally curated, specialty brands. Wellspring's process starts with a frank discussion with employers to identify areas of improvement to develop a wellness plan that works for the employer and its employees. To create its wellness kits, Wellspring also partners with a variety of wellness product manufacturers, including organic, non-GMO, vegan, plant-based and others. Culture is important to any company, including restaurants, and programs that make employees feel valued and appreciated can help build that culture. Creating synergy is also important. From a fitness perspective, the pandemic affected people in different ways. Some gained weight, some lost weight and some gained half of it back. As we look at life after the pandemic, wellness is important and companies can play a role in helping employees embrace wellness – in all of its many forms – and all of the personal benefits that come with it. Wellness can be physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial and many other things. Quotes “Right now we're seeing a lot of companies throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. We're throwing all sorts of healthcare in your direction, we're throwing the Calm app – these are supposed to be the solutions, but none of it is really sticking.” (Andrew) “We're trying to figure out what's most important to the employee, and at the end of the day it is equipping them with the tools necessary to combat life.” (Andrew) “Business owners need to understand that the word ‘benefits' means benefits. It doesn't mean things that are standard issue.” (Joseph) “We found that a culture centered around giving and caring for one another is the ringer for culture creation and employee retention.” (Andrew) “Accountants need to sleep better, sales people need to eat better. It's hard to approach anything with a one-size-fits-all model. Individualized care is what's going to be most effective.” (Andrew) “The goal of Wellspring really is to find that binding comradery that is normally found under situations of extreme duress but finding it instead under situations of extreme wellness and care.” (Joseph) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by my friend Andrew O'shea he is the founder and Ceo of wellspring and we're going to have a great talk about the state of the industry as it pertains to employees and teams and camaraderie and all of that. Ah, but before we do that Andrew say hello give a little bit of backstory and and you can tell people what well springs all about. 00:17.91 Andrew O_Shea Yeah, absolutely well. Thank you again. Joe for having me on here. Real excited to chat with you this morning. My name is Andrew O'shea for those who don't know me I am the founder and Ceo of a company called wellspring and we provide health and wellness gift boxes and care packages. Ah to provide for employees as a part of a wellness program that is substantive and and make substantive change the the kicker here being that we oftentimes partner through companies insurance channels to help pay for this That's a little bit about me. 00:48.78 vigorbranding I Love it. Yeah and we have a lot to talk about I think anybody who's tuned into this episode knows that we haven't quite cracked the nut on what some people have labeled the great resignations. Others have ah relabeled it. The great transition. 01:04.30 vigorbranding You know because we're we're not seeing people leave the workforce necessarily they may be shifting to another company. So and so forth, but employee retention in general. It's just its hotbut issue would be an understatement and I think a lot of people like 0 like to 0 in on the money. It's like oh we weren't paying p

Adentro is a marketing solution designed to increase guest foot traffic in restaurants. The platform pairs with a restaurant's in-store WiFi network to help businesses better understand and market to their customers based on customer visit behavior. Adentro works similar to how a tracking pixel on a company's website might identify information about a site visitor and their interests. Using WiFi, restaurants are able to do the same thing because the WiFi is passively detecting devices every 30 seconds. And while that detection isn't gathering identity information about the diner, Adentro makes that detection actionable by working with third-party channels like paid social, display or CTV. Digital hospitality means that every guest experience is measured and everyone gets a personalized experience with your brand. Brands often succeed not because they're spending more on marketing, but because they're being human and connecting with consumers on a human level. Quotes Adentro is a marketing solution designed to increase guest foot traffic in restaurants. The platform pairs with restaurant's in-store WiFi network to help businesses better understand and market to their customers based on customer visit behavior. Adentro works similar to how a tracking pixel on a company's website might identify information about a site visitor and their interests. Using WiFi, restaurants are able to do the same thing because the WiFi is passively detecting devices every 30 seconds. And while that detection isn't gathering identity information about the diner, Adentro makes that detection actionable by working with third-party channels like paid social, display or CTV. Digital hospitality means that every guest experience is measured and everyone gets a personalized experience with your brand. Brands often succeed not because they're spending more on marketing, but because they're being human and connecting with consumers on a human level. Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by my good friend Jason Gabler from a dentro. He's a vp of sales and although that's his focus we're gonna be talking about so many things today that are not sales related so stay tuned and I hope you love the episode Jason say hello give a little bit backstory. 00:17.39 Jason Hello Joseph hello forktails audience. It's really great to be here and I'm grateful for the time today I've been with a dentro for about None ars I was initially hired as an individual contributor on the sales side and over that time we've evolved a lot as a company. Um, focusing on none party data helping our clients and partners leverage that data to drive success for their business and and prior to that I had a background in recruiting and management consulting. So overall primarily in the tech space and and over the last five years specifically with a focus on the restaurant industry and hospitality. 00:50.28 vigorbranding Excellent, Yeah, there's I think data and technology are I mean the biggest buzzwords in the restaurant industry. Finally I feel like it was something that we sort of talked about for a little while and then the Pandemic just has like stopped everyone in their tracks and like okay now's the time but it's it's safe to say that like. 01:05.83 Jason Um, yeah. 01:09.91 vigorbranding We as humans just all of us we are living in a mobile first society we're connected all of the time much to the chagrin of my wife and me at times. Um I like had to take the time to actually put my phone away and be present. Um, that's how connected we are. Um, how has this affected the the restaurant industry positive or negatively in your opinion. 01:31.48 Jason I Think that the positives and negatives are kind of tied together I think it pushed a lot of people out of their comfort zone that have been doing the same thing the same way for a long time and you know and I I think for a while technology was something

Full Course is a restaurant development and investment firm that incubates and accelerates emerging fast casual restaurant brands, focusing on restaurants less than five years old with 1-10 locations. Full Course has a special focus on businesses run by women, minorities and immigrants. Cleanliness and creating an appealing dining environment is important. Restaurant owners need to make scheduled cleanings – including annual deep cleanings – a priority. Full Course works with designers to help restaurants improve their appearance and atmosphere. They create dining environments that speak to the brand's story, purpose and mission while avoiding some of the unnecessary costs associated with creating custom materials. Full Course realizes that one of the benefits of fast casual dining is that it's fairly recession proof. Consumers may cut corners on higher end dining during a recession, but fast casual dining is usually always within a consumer's budget. Each Full Course client goes through an initial assessment that analyzes the restaurant's finances, staff and leadership, marketing strategies and points of differentiation to find opportunities for Full Course to add value. Quotes “One of my favorite restaurant hacks is when you walk in and you just watch. You watch what the managers do. We all know how to do it by the book, but really great managers are proactive at putting systems in place where there may be a gap.” (Lauren) “The best ideas come from doing, especially in the world of restaurants.” (Lauren) “You can tell how well a place is managed if you just look up at the vents. I don't know how many times I've looked up at the vents and said, ‘Guys, that's so gross.'” (Joseph) “We eat with our eyes first and when you walk into a restaurant and it looks like it's in disrepair, that matters. Those details matter. It shows a letter of care and concern about the environment and a way that you're creating an experience for customers.” (Lauren) “We're very attuned to efficient spending when we're building out these units. We spend a lot of time and energy designing these restaurants so that they communicate the values of the brand but in an efficient and effective manner.” (Lauren) “People will cut spending in a lot of places, but food isn't one of them. We all need that moment of community. We need that moment to go out and get a break from being at home.” (Lauren) “Our staples in the American diet are delicious, but we don't need another burrito. We don't need another hamburger. What we need is something fresh and something that is bringing something different to the market.” (Joseph) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by my friend Lauren Fernandez she is the Ceo and founder of full course which we are going to unfurl fully in this episode Lauren wont we start by you saying hello and giving a little bit of backstory. 00:11.92 Lauren Fernandez Yeah hi I'm Lauren ah former attorney turned restaurant owner turned restaurant investor and developer and I started full course a little over two years ago it's been about a 10 year dream of mine to work with. Earlyage restaurant brands and they're really in their emerging years. Um, when they're anywhere between one and five years old and somewhere between 1 and 5 units and that is exactly what full course does so we are a fullservice solution for early stage. Fast casual restaurant concepts you can be anywhere from one to None units. We'd love to talk to you. We have a private equity fund that we use to back our investment in these brands. But we're a little bit different in our approach. We take a minority investment stake. We leave our restaurant partners in charge of operations and in control of the business while we focus on deploying the capital to our growth plan that we develop with you with our development team. So we invest in folks for about 5 years and it's a pretty different and unique appro

Shuckin' Shack Oyster Bar was founded in 2007 in Carolina Beach, North Carolina, and found success with its laid-back attitude and a menu of oysters, lobster rolls, and low country boils. Today, the restaurant has expanded to 16 locations across North Carolina,  South Carolina, Georgia, Maryland, and Florida, Jonathan joined Shuckin' Shack in 2014 and quickly rose to the rank of CEO. In that role, Jonathan got the bar and grill off the ground as a franchise ownership opportunity. Jonathan and his team market Shuckin' Shack by looking beyond oysters to promote the experience that the restaurant delivers. The integrity of the seafood product used by Shuckin' Shack is critical to maintaining quality and safety. The oysters often arrive at restaurants within days after being taken from the water. Shuckin' Shack knows that customers value the experience over convenience. The restaurant has made a conscious decision to deemphasize delivery. Shuckin' Shack was able to reduce staff turnover by 38% by placing an emphasis on employee happiness and making some key changes to how employees are compensated and rewarded. Quotes “We're sourcing product that go into our restaurants that have really high integrity, that taste better, come straight out of the water, into the steamer and onto the plate.” (Jonathan) “We're kind of in this right-place-right-time moment. Oysters have become extremely popular, especially in the past five years. You see a lot of places adding oysters to their menus or doing limited time offerings, so for us we view seafood as the way of the future.” (Jonathan) “(Franchisees) can be difficult, especially because they've invested their own money – they're entrepreneurs as a result – if they see slippage or they see an opportunity to do something cheaper, they love to dive at that.” (Joseph) “We allow our franchisees some lanes of operation, and that's really, really important. We're giving you choices for how you operate within those lanes.” (Jonathan) “We aren't doing a lot of delivery because we don't have to. We have doubled down on customer experience and we have doubled down on being the trusted source of seafood. We believe that our customers will pull up to our restaurant if they want our food and they have consistently proven that they will do that.” (Jonathan) “Some places just suck to work at.” (Joseph)

Papa Gino's is a restaurant chain based in Massachusetts that specializes in traditional thin crust pizza along with pasta, subs, salads, and a variety of appetizers. As of 2022, there are 81 Papa Gino's locations in Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island. Kevin attributes his 10-year NFL career to helping him develop leadership and management skills that he uses today. Papa Gino's has an immense amount of love and respect from its New England fan base. That passion is fueled, in part, by the quality of the pizza and food it serves. Kevin and Papa Gino's look for vendors who will work with the brand as partners in a longer, continually-involving technological journey. Kevin isn't afraid to admit it, but he's a pineapple on pizza kind of guy – and so is Joseph. Quotes “The biggest benefit of my collective background is being able to fit in in any environment. I've had so many collective experiences that it allows me to connect with people naturally and organically.” (Kevin) “Technology is a part of every single department in this organization. You either have a say in this, or the technology is going to steamroll you.” (Joseph) “At the core, as long as you continue to deliver quality food and a quality experience, that cult (following) will continue.” (Kevin) “Pretty much every challenge in a restaurant is being tackled by a tech company right now. If you don't have leaders in these silos understanding that, embracing it and then finding someone who's an ally like yourself that's going to give you some great movement forward.” (Joseph) “The rate at which technology is moving, you really need a strategic partner that's going to come along with you for the journey. I'm looking at vendors long term and how we can be strategic together.” (Kevin) “Everyone will swear they have an open API but when you start digging into the weeds, it's not so open. The reality is, not every tech vendor can do everything well and integrations are critical for the ecosystem.” (Kevin) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding O sorry let me just 1 more thing it is Kevin Bentley right and it's a Vp of technology and automation at pappainas pizzeria and Dangelo sub sandwiches. Okay, just making sure I don't want to get on ambul like actually it's Kevin you said it wrong all right? so. 00:04.71 Kevin Bentley Yep. 00:08.59 Kevin Bentley Um, yep. 00:19.69 vigorbranding 3 2 1 hey everyone today I'm joined by my friend Kevin Bentley he is the Vp of technology and automation at papaginno's Pizzeria and Deangelo sub sandwiches if you're from the northeast you know those names if you're not from the northeast you're about to learn a bit more about them. Before we dive in Kevin say hello give a little bit of backstory. 00:40.63 Kevin Bentley Yeah Joseph thanks for having me on just a quick correction. It's actually ca on it's french no I'm just totally kid totally get it? Yeah ah no thanks for having me on I'm really excited to join you and have this discussion as. 00:45.78 vigorbranding Oh kept. Ah I didn't see the accent Mark. Ah. 01:00.30 Kevin Bentley Joseph mentioned I'm the Vp of tech give you a quick backstory I know we're gonna dive into my story a little bit so I'll keep it really high level born or raised on the west coast in California was convinced to go to school in Chicago at northwestern to play football. Don't ask me how they got a kid from the sunny California west coast to. Go to the Midwest where was cold and raining and snowing all the time but they got me. There had a great time at northwestern play 10 years in Nfl went back got my Mba from rice a masters in technology from northwestern and actually prepare for my doctorate. At Usc and organizational leadership. Yeah I'm a glutton for pain when it comes to education. So don't fault me too much. 01:43.70 vigorbranding I love it. Yeah I mean the professional journey and then and then the the acad

Simply Salad includes five locations in Los Angeles and was founded on the idea that everyone should have access to healthy, fresh, flavorful, affordable food in a way that is fast and convenient. Daniel was formerly the head of finance and development at Popeyes, where he was part of the team that led Popeyes' entry into the famous chicken sandwich wars. Simply Salad has grown by making salads convenient and accessible and by adding locations to communities not typically associated with salad restaurants and other better-for-you restaurants. Quotes “Everybody thinks their quality is great, but you (at Popeyes) had a rockstar supply chain team that can actually source that product and you had an operations team that just aced training. [...] For a challenger brand to not just challenge, but overcome the leader (Chick-fil-A) is pretty intense.” (Joseph) “It's a self-fulfilling prophecy in that when you have a big launch and you're moving volume and the product is hot and the product is fresh, it's easier to be able to deliver consistency (in quality).” (Daniel) “After the Popeyes launch when everyone saw how successful the (chicken sandwich) launch was, everyone said ‘I need a new (sandwich) on the menu in three months.” And if that's your approach to product development, you're not going to deliver what you need.” (Daniel) “Simply salad has found something intriguing and unique and it's where it went and where these locations happen to be. It's not the rich suburbs of America where people have a lot of money. Instead, you've found traction in places like Compton. Places that people would mark as underserved or a health food desert.” (Joseph) “Our secret is, we don't focus on health. Everybody knows that salads are healthy. We focus on taste. When that salad can deliver against the same craving as a Big Mac and fries, that's when we're winning.” (Daniel) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Hey everyone this morning I'm joined by my friend Daniel Gonzalez who is co-owner of simply salad a brand that's up and coming in the l a market and growing ah before we hoper on that Daniel say hello give a little bit of backstory. 00:00.00 Daniel Gonzalez I. 00:11.80 Daniel Gonzalez Everybody how are you? my name is Daniel I'm one of the owners of simply salad I've been involved in this business for about a year prior to that. It's been about a decade in leadership positions with restaurant brands international. So. Ah popeyes and the chicken sandwich burger king over in Europe burger king here in the states. Um, and yeah, originally from California and I'm super pumped to be able to be bring in healthy food to California. 00:40.25 vigorbranding That's awesome. So yeah, some name drops. Ah which are are big ones some are leading the charge actually both I would say are leading the charge in their own right? Um, and and suffice to say you've had a lustroious career like you didn't just dive into the top like you you have worked your way up. You've worn many hats. Um. And and going from a macro brand the size of burger king the size of Popeyes to a smaller brand um in simply salad which I believe we're about to be at None units right? or twi ten. Yeah. 01:07.97 Daniel Gonzalez Yeah, we'll finish it about 8 this year mean hopefully nine Vegas says None ah so I don't know if you want to take the over on that. But you know about 8 01:15.14 vigorbranding Awesome! So how how have you applied your learnings while maintaining that like agility necessary in startup because this is still startup. You're still wearing 30000000 hats trying to get things done, but it's very different world than. 01:26.86 Daniel Gonzalez No. 01:31.68 vigorbranding Being for instance head of marketing in the E M E a for um burger game. 01:35.31 Daniel Gonzalez Yeah I mean how have I applied it I think it's just it's a focus on on details right? I think as you get into a smaller business a star

El Arroyo is a Tex-Mex restaurant in Austin, Texas. Established in 1975, the restaurant is known for its assortment of Mexican cuisine including tacos, fajitas, guacamole and tortilla chips in generous portions. Ellis and his wife, Paige, have been the owners of El Arroyo since 2012. El Arroyo's most famous marketing tactic is its marquees, which house witty messages updated on a daily basis. The marquees have driven social media success for El Arroyo, with a few thousand followers when the marquees began to more than 250,000 followers on Facebook and 600,000 followers on Instagram today. Axial Shift is a software platform created so that frontline managers and staff can learn to be more effective at running restaurants. The Axial Shift platform provides teams with a purpose-driven work experience by delivering transparency into their performance and potential sales opportunities, as well as tools to control their outcomes and improve their own and their store's performance. The Axial Shift system connects to the POS system and then delivers data to managers and employees via an app on the user's smartphone or tablet. The services include a microgaming feature that helps managers give bonuses to employees who increase performance or meet goals set by the manager. Quotes “What makes the (marquees) work is the voice. It was always funny, but when we got involved we decided that we wanted to create a voice that was connective and really authentic and would resonate with what people were dealing with in their day-to-day lives.” (Ellis) “The (marquees) gave us an opportunity to connect with people on a daily basis.” (Ellis) “The things (Axial Shift) does tactically is, yes, it gets the manager out of the office (and onto the floor). For the employees, it's feeding them back sales performance data. It shows where they rank relative to their peers in total sales, sales per hour, credit card tip percentage – key metrics. It positions the data so they can see their own personal growth relative to their team. It drives people to want to perform at a higher level.” (Ellis) “You really gotta go where no one else is bold enough to go. You hear stories of this too. The latest one I heard is a designer or creative who put his resume in a box of doughnuts and delivered it to the office of the agency he wanted to work at. It's that kind of thinking that brands need. They need people who aren't going to just toe the line with what they have been told to do, but instead actually think and come up with ideas for how to get there.” (Joseph) “Sales contests really work but only when they're executed in a tight way and when the information is presented where everybody sees an opportunity to grow. That's what we do with Axial.” (Ellis) Transcript 00:00.00 vigorbranding Everyone today I'm joined by my friend Ellis Win stanley he has a number of companies from axialhift to el arroyo to texas ranch experience we're going to cover all of those or at least try to in a and normal amount of time. Ah, but before that ellis say hello and give a little bit of backstory. 00:19.24 Ellis Winstanley Everyone happy to be here. Thanks so appreciate it? Um, yeah, so we're we're based in Austin Texas and and we're colocated to Santa Theresa Costa Rica we've got starting the restaurant business years years ago and then ended up in multiple industries along the way including real estate development and. And restaurant software. 00:40.37 vigorbranding That's awesome. Yeah I mean there's just so much to unpack in this episode I forgot to mention that you recently became a board member at the Texas restaurant association as well. So maybe the None big question is how do you have the time to do all of this. 00:54.25 Ellis Winstanley Um, well we yeah yeah, we've got we've got a lot of very longterm folks on our team that that are yeah we we run our company very entrepreneurly the people that that run certain elemen