Podcast appearances and mentions of dan all

In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we start by discussing the unpredictable nature of Toronto's weather and its amusing impact on the city's spring arrival. We explore the evolution of Formula One pit stops, highlighting the remarkable advancements in efficiency over the decades. This sets the stage for a conversation with our guest, Chris Collins, who shares his insights on balancing fame and wealth below the need for personal security. Next, we delve into the intricacies of the VCR formula—proposition, proof, protocol, and property. I share my experiences from recent workshops, emphasizing the importance of transforming ideas into intellectual property. We explore cultural differences between Canada and the U.S. in securing property rights, highlighting the entrepreneurial spirit needed to protect one's innovations. We then examine the role of AI in government efficiency, with Elon Musk's technologies revealing inefficiencies in civil services. The discussion covers the political and economic implications of misallocated funds and how the market's growing intolerance for waste pushes productivity and accountability to the forefront. Finally, we reflect on the transformative power of technological advancements, drawing parallels to historical innovations like the printing press. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS We discussed the VCR formula—proposition, proof, protocol, and property—designed to enhance communication skills and protect innovations. This formula is aimed at helping entrepreneurs turn their unique abilities into valuable assets. We touch on the unpredictable weather of Toronto and the humor associated with the arrival of spring were topics of discussion, offering a light-hearted start to the episode. Dan and I share insights on the evolution of Formula One pit stops, showcasing human innovation and efficiency over time. We examined the challenges faced by entrepreneurs in protecting their intellectual property and explored cultural contrasts between Canada and the U.S. regarding intellectual property rights. The episode delved into the implications of AI in improving government efficiency, highlighting how technologies reveal civil service inefficiencies and drive accountability. We reflected on the transformative power of historical innovations such as the printing press and electricity, drawing parallels to modern technological advancements. The conversation concluded with reflections on personal growth, including insights from notable figures like Thomas Edison and Peter Drucker, and a preview of future discussions on aging and life experiences. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dean: Mr Sullivan. Dan: That feels better. Dean: Welcome to Cloudlandia, yes. Dan: Yes indeed. Dean: Well, where in the world? Dan: are you? Dean: today, toronto. Oh, you're in Toronto. Okay, yeah, where are you? Yeah? Dan: where are you? Dean: I am in the courtyard at the Four Seasons Valhalla in my comfy white couch. In perfect, I would give it 73 degree weather right now. Dan: Yes, well, we're right at that crossover between middle winter and late winter. Dean: You never know what you're going to get. It could snow or it could be. You may need your bikini, your Speedo or something. Dan: I think spring in Toronto happens, I think somewhere around May 23rd, I think somewhere around. May 23rd, and it's the night when the city workers put all the leaves on the trees. Dean: You never know what you're going to get. Until then, right, it just might snow, and they're stealthy. Dan: They're stealthy and you know, I think they rehearse. You know, starting in February, march, april, they start rehearsing. You know how fast can we get all the leaves on the trees and they do it all in one night they do it and all. I mean they're faster than Santa Claus. I mean they're. Dean: Have you seen, Dan? There's a wonderful video on YouTube that is a comparison of a Formula One pit stop from the 1950s versus the 2013 Formula One in Melbourne, and it was so funny to show. Dan: It would be even faster today. Dean: It would be even faster today. Oh yeah, 57 seconds it took for the pit stop in the 50s and it was 2.7 seconds at Melbourne it was just amazing to see. Dan: Yeah, mark young talks about that because he's he's not formula one, but he's at the yeah, he's at the level below formula one right, every, uh, every minute counts, every second counts oh, yeah, yeah, and uh, yeah, he said they practice and practice and practice. You know it's, it's, if it can be measured. You know that there's always somebody who's going to do it faster. And yeah, yeah, it's really, really interesting what humans do. Dean: Really interesting what humans do. I read something interesting or saw a video and I've been looking into it. Basically, someone was saying you know, our brains are not equipped for omniscience, that we're not supposed to have omniscient knowledge of everything going on in the world all at once. where our brains are made to be in a local environment with 150 people around us, and that's what our brain is equipped for managing. But all this has been foisted on us, that we have this impending. No wonder our mental health is suffering in that we have this impending when you say our, who are you referring to? Society. I think you know that's what they're. Dan: Yeah, that's what they're saying like across the board. Dean: Who are they? Yes, that's a great question. Dan: You know I hear this, but I don't experience any of it. I don't feel foisted upon. I don't feel overwhelmed. Dean: You know what I? Dan: think it is. I think it is that people who feel foisted upon have a tendency to talk about it to a lot of other people. Dean: But people who don't feel foisted upon. Dan: Don't mention it to anybody. Dean: It's very interesting. Do you know Chris Collins? Do you know Chris Collins? Dan: He wrote the really great book collection called I Am Leader. Dean: It's really something. He's a new genius. He's a new Genius Network member. Dan: Oh, Chris, oh yeah, oh yeah, chris, yeah, does he have repair shops? His main business is auto Auto. Dean: Yeah, oh yeah, chris, yeah, he does. He have repair shops His main business is auto, auto, auto dealership. Dan: He does auto dealerships. Dean: Yeah, that's right. Dan: Yeah, chris was in. Chris was in the program way back with 10 times around the same time when you came 10 times. He was in for about two years oh okay, interesting. Yeah and yeah, he was at the last Genius you know, and he's got a big, monstrous book that costs about $300. Dean: Yes, I was just going to talk about that. Yeah. Dan: We got one, but I didn't have room in my bags, you know. Dean: I budget. Dan: You know how much. Dean: I'm going to take and how much I'm going to bring back, and that was just too, much so, yeah, so yeah, yeah. He's very bothered. Oh, is he? Okay, yeah, I don't know him, I just I saw him. Dan: I got that what he talked about was this massive conspiracy. You know that they are doing it to them or they're doing it to us interesting interesting I don't experience that. What I experience is mostly nobody knows who I am. Dean: That's the best place to be right. Dan: They only know of you. Somebody was saying a very famous person showed up at a clinic in Costa Rica and he had eight bodyguards, eight bodyguards and I said yes, why is that expensive? That must be really expensive, having all those bodyguards. I mean, probably the least thing that was costly for one is having is having himself transformed by medical miracles. But having the bodyguards was the real expense. So I had a thought and I talked to somebody about this yesterday. Actually, I said my goal is to be as wealthy and famous just to the point where I would need a bodyguard. But not need the bodyguard just below where I would need a bodyguard, but not need the bodyguard Just below, where I would need a bodyguard, and I think that would be an excellent level of fame and wealth. Not only do you not have a bodyguard, but you don't think you would ever need one. That's the big thing, yeah. Dean: I love that. Dan: That that's good yeah that's a good aspiration yeah, yeah, so far I've succeeded yes, so far you are on the uh. Dean: Yeah, on the cusp of 81 six weeks seven weeks to go yeah, getting close. That's so good. Yeah, yeah, this. How is the new book coming? Dan: Yeah, good, well, I've got several because I have a quarterly book. Dean: Yeah, I'm at the big casting, not hiring. Dan: Yeah, really good. Each of us is delivering now a chapter per week, so it's really coming along. Great, yeah, and so we'll. Our date is may 26th for the everything in um before their editing can start, so they will have our, our draft will be in on may 26th and then it's over to the publisher and you know there'll be back and forth. But Jeff and I are pretty, jeff Madoff and I are pretty complete writers, you know. So you know it doesn't need normal. You know kind of looking at spelling and grammar. Dean: Right, right, right. Is that how you? Are you writing as one voice or you're writing One voice? One voice, one voice. Dan: Yeah, but we're writing actually in the second person, singular voice, so we're writing to the reader. So we're talking about you this and you this, and you this and you this, and that's the best way to do it, because if you can maintain the same voice all the way through, that's really good. I mean, jeff, we have a different style, but since we're talking to the reader all the way through, it actually works really well so far, and then we'll have you know, there'll be some shuffling and rearranging at the end. Dean: That's what I wondered. Are you essentially writing your separate, are you writing alternate chapters or you're writing your thoughts about one chapter? Dan: We have four parts and the first three parts are the whole concept of businesses that have gone theatrical, that have gone theatrical and we use examples like Ralph Lauren, Four Seasons. Hotel Apple. You know who have done Starbucks, who have done a really great job, and Jeff is writing all that because he's done a lot of work on that. He's, you know, he's been a professor at one of the New York universities and he has whole classes on how small companies started them by using a theatrical approach. They differentiated themselves extraordinarily in the marketplace, and he goes through all these examples. Plus he talks about what it's like to be actually in theater, which he knows a great deal about because he's a playwright and a producer. The fourth part is on the four by four casting tool and that's got five sections to it and where I'm taking people, the reader, who is an entrepreneur, a successful, talented, ambitious entrepreneur who wants to transform their company into a theatrical-like enterprise with everybody playing unique roles. So, that's how I've done it, so he's got the bigger writing job than I do but, mine is more directive. This is what you can do with the knowledge in this book. So we're writing it separately, and we're going to let the editor at the publishing house sort out any what goes where. Dean: Put it all together. Dan: Yeah, and we're doing the design on it, so we're pretty steadily into design projects you know, producing a new book. So we've got my entire team my team's doing all the backstage arrangements. Jeff is interviewing a lot of really great people in the theater world and you know anything having to do with casting. So he's got about. You know probably to do with casting. So he's got about probably about 12 major, 12 major interviews that he'll pull quotes from and my team is doing all the setup and the recording for him so so. Jeff. Jeff showed up as Jeff and I showed up as a team. That's great. Oh, that's great, that's awesome yeah, yeah, in comes, but not without six others, right, right with your. Dean: You know, I had a friend who used to refer to that as your utility belt. Right that you show up and you've got strapped on behind you. Dan: You've got your design, got it writing got it video, got it your whole. Yeah, strapped on behind you, you've got your design Got it Right. Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan: And capability crew. Yeah, and to a certain extent I'm role modeling the, the point of the book, you know, and the way we're going about this and and you know, and more and more so, I find probably every quarter my actual doing um of production and that gets less and less and I'm actually finding um, I'm actually finding my work with perplexity very useful because it's getting me better at prompting my team members yes yeah, with perplexity, if you don't give it the right prompt, you don't get the right outcome. You know, yeah, and more and more I'm noticing I'm getting better at giving really, really, really great prompts to my artists, to the writers who are working with me, the interviewers, everything so, um, yeah, so it's been very, very helpful. I I find uh, just in a year of perplexity, I've gotten much more uh precise about exactly what I want. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Yeah, defining right. I mean that's pretty. Yeah, yeah, that's really great. And knowing that, a lot of it, so much of that prompting, that's the language that's been adopted for interfacing with AI, chat, gpt and perplexity. Dan: The prompts that you give are the things. Dean: But there's so much of that. That's true about team as well, right? Oh yeah, being a better AI prompter is a better team prompter. Yeah yeah, being a better AI prompter is a better team prompter. Dan: Yeah, yeah, and you know I have a book coming out Now that I'm talking to you about it it may be the next book that would start in June and it's called Technology Coaching Teamwork and it has like three upward arrows that are, uh, you know, in unison with each other. There are three and I said that I think in the 21st century all businesses really have three tracks to them. They have a technology track, they have a teamwork track and they have a coaching track in the middle and that um in the 20th century, we considered management to be the basis. You know, management is the basis for business but. I think management has actually been um superseded, um by um superseded by electronics, you know actually it's the electronics are now the management, the algorithms are now the management and then you have the people who are constantly, you know, creating new technology, and you have human teamwork that's creating new things, because it's ultimately humans that are knocking off everything you know right. And then in the middle is coaching, and coaching goes back and forth between the teamwork and the technology. Technology will always do a really shitty job of coaching yes, I bet that's true, and teams will always do a sort of shitty job of uh knowing how to use technology and there has to be an interface in the middle, that's a human interface and it's a coaching, because coaching takes in a lot of factors, not just action factors or planning factors, but it takes in aspirational factors. It takes in learning factors. It takes in, you know, all sorts of transformational factors and that's a, that's a mid role. Yeah. Dean: Yes, yeah. Dan: And if you look at what you do best, it's probably coaching. Dean: Yeah, I wonder. I mean that's kind of. Dan: Joe Polish. It was Joe Polish, where he probably does best. He's probably a great coach. Dean: Yeah, I think that's true. Yeah, I think that's true. I've really been getting a lot of insight around going through and defining the VCR formula. You know proposition, proof, protocol and property. That's a. I see the clarity that. You know. There's a different level of communication and intention between. Where my I really shine is between is propositions and proof, like getting something knowing, guessing. You know we were. I was going to talk today too about guessing and betting. I've been really thinking about that. That was a great exercise that we did in our workshop. But this idea that's really what this is is guessing. I seem to have this superpower for propositions, like knowing what would be the thing to do and then proving that. That's true. But then taking that proof and creating a protocol that can be packaged and become property is a. That's a different skill set altogether and it's not as much. It's not as much. My unique ability, my superpower zone, is taking, you know, making propositions and proving them. I'm a really good guesser. Dan: That's my strength yeah. Yeah, I think the what I'm doing because it's, um, I'm really thinking a lot about it based on the last, um, uh, free zone workshop, which I did on monday and, uh, you know, monday of the week before last in toronto, where you were yeah, and and then I did it on Thursday again and I reversed the whole day oh really I reversed the whole day. I started off with guessing and betting and then indecision versus bad decision. And then the afternoon I did the second company secret and it worked a lot better. The flow was a lot better. Company secret and it worked a lot better. The flow was a lot better. But the big thing is that people say well, how do I? Um, I I just don't know how I you know that. Um, I'm telling them and they're asking me. So I'm telling them every time you take your unique ability and help someone transform their DOS issues, you're actually creating perspective. Intellectual property. And they said, well, I don't see quite how that works. I don't see how that works, so I've been, you know, and I'm taking them seriously. They don't see how that works. So I said, well, the impact filter is actually the solution. Okay, because you do the DOS question with them. You know, if we were having this discussion a year from now and you were looking back over the year, what has to have happened for you to feel happy with your progress? Okay, and specifically, what dangers do you have that need to be eliminated, what opportunities do you have that need to be captured, and what strengths do you have that need to be maximized? And there's a lot of very interesting answers that are going to come out of that, and the answers actually their answers to your question actually are the raw material for creating intellectual property the reason being is that what they're saying is unique and how you're listening to it is unique because of your unique ability so the best thing is do it, do an impact filter on what your solution is. So the best solution is best result solution is this. Worst result solution is this. And then here are the five success criteria, the eight success criteria that we have to go through to achieve the best result and that is the basis for intellectual property. Dean: What you write in that thing. Dan: So that's where I'm going next, because I think if we can get a lot of people over that hump, you're going to see a lot more confidence about what they're creating as solutions and understanding that these solutions are property. Dean: Yes. Dan: That's what I'm saying, that's what I'm thinking. Dean: Yeah, that's your guessing and betting yeah yes I agree and I think that that uh you know, I mean, I've had that to me going through this exercise of thinking, through that vision, column you know that the ultimate outcome is property, and once you have that property, it becomes it's a capability. Dan: It's a capability. Now right, that's something that you have. If it's not property, it's an opportunity for somebody to steal something ah right exactly. Yeah, I just think there's an inhibition on the part of entrepreneurs that if they have a really neat solution but it's not named and packaged and protected, um, it isn't going to really do them any good because they're going to be afraid. Look, if I say this, I'm in a conference somewhere and I say this, somebody's going to steal it. Then they're going to use it, then I I can't stop them from doing that. So the way I'm going to stop people from stealing my creativity is not to tell people what I'm creating. Right, it's just, it's just going to be me in my basement. Dean: Yeah, I bet no. Dan: I bet the vast majority of creative entrepreneurs they're the only ones who know they're creative because they're afraid of sharing their creativity, because it's not distinct enough that they can name it and package it and project it, getting the government to give you a hand in doing that Right yeah. Yeah, and I don't know maybe it's just not a goal of theirs to have intellectual property. Maybe it's you know it's a goal of mine to have everything be intellectual property, but maybe it's just not the goal of a lot of other people. Dean: What do? Dan: you think. Dean: I think that once you start to understand what the practical you know value, the asset value of having intellectual property, I think that makes a big difference. I think that's where you're, I mean you're. It's interesting that you are certainly leading the way, you know. I found it fascinating when you mentioned that if you were, you know, were measured as a Canadian company, that it would be the ninth or something like that. Dan: Yeah, during a 12-month period 23 to 24,. Based on the research that the Globe and Mail Toronto paper did, that the biggest was one of the big banks. They had the most intellectual property and if our US patents counted in Canada because I think they were just, they were just counting Canadian government patents that we would have been number nine and we're. you know, we're a tiny little speck on the windshield, I mean we're not a big company, but what I notice when I look at Canada very little originality is coming out of Canada and, for example, the biggest Canadian company with patents during that 12-month period was TD Bank. Yeah, and they had 240. 240, I mean that might be how many Google send in in a week. You know that might be the number of patents. That wouldn't be necessarily a big week at Google or Amazon or any of the other big American, because Americans are really into Americans are really, really into property. That's why they want Greenland. Dean: And Panama. Dan: And Alberta. Dean: Panama, alberta and Greenland. Dan: And the Gulf of America, yeah, the Gulf of America and property. Dean: Even if it's not actual. They want titular property. Dan: Yes. Dean: Yeah, yeah. Dan: And I haven't seen any complaints from Mexico. I mean, I haven't seen any complaints. Maybe there have been complaints, but we just haven't seen them. No, no, from now on it's the Gulf of America, which I think is rather important, and when Google just switches, I mean, google hasn't been a very big Trump fan and yet they took it seriously. Yeah, now all the tech's official. It's interesting talking to people and they say what's happening? What's happening? We don't know what's happening. I say, well, it's like the end of a Monopoly game. One of the things you have to do when you end one Monopoly game is all the pieces have to go back in the box, like Scrabble. You play Scrabble, all the pieces go back in the box at the end of a game. And I said, this is the first time since the end of the Second World War that a game is ending and all the pieces are going back into the box, except when you get to the next step. It's a bigger box, it's a different game board, there's more pieces and different rules. So this is what's happening right now. It's a new game the old game is over, new game is starting and, um, if you just watch what donald trump's doing, you're getting an idea what the new game is. Yeah, I think you're right, and one of the new game is intellectual property. Intellectual property I think this is one of the new parts of the new game. And the other thing is it's all going to be one-to-one deals. I don't think there's going to be any more multi-party deals. You know, like the North American Free Trade Act, supposedly is the United States, canada and Mexico In Europe. If you look at it, it's Canada and Mexico, it's Mexico and the United States and it's the United States and Canada. These are separate deals. They're all separate deals. That's what I think is happening. States, Canada and these are separate deals. They're all separate deals. Oh, interesting, yeah, and that's what I think is happening. It's just one-to-one. No more multilateral stuff it's all one-to-one. For example, the US ambassador is in London this week and they're working out a deal between the UK and the United States, so no tariffs apply to British, british products oh interesting yeah and you'll see it like the European Union. I was saying the European Union wants to have a deal and I said European Union, where is the European Union? You know where is? That anyway, yeah yeah, I mean, if you look at the United Nations, there's no European Union. If you look at NATO, there's no European Union. If you look at the G20 of countries, there's no European Union. There's France, there's Germany. You know, there's countries we recognize. And I think the US is just saying if you don't have a national border and you don't have a capital, and you don't have a government, we don't think it exists. We just don't think it exists. And Trump often talks about that 28 acres on the east side of Manhattan. He says boy, boy. What we could do with that right, oh, what we could do with that. You know they should. Just, you know who can do that. Who can do? United Nations, switzerland, send it to Switzerland. You know that'd be a nice place for the send it to there, you know like that and it just shows you that that was all. All those institutions were really a result of the Second World War and the Cold War, which was just a continuation of the Second World War. So I think that's one of the really big things that's happening in the world right now. And the other thing I want to talk to you about is Doge. I think Doge is one of the most phenomenally big breakthroughs in world history. What's happening with Elon Musk and his team. Dean: Yeah, I know you've been really following that with great interest. Tell me what's the latest. Dan: It's the first time in human history that you can audit government, bureauc, audit government, bureaucratic government, the part of government. You don't see Millions and millions of people who are doing things but you don't know what they're doing. There's no way of checking what they're doing. There's no way for them. And it was proven because Musk, about four weeks ago, sent out a letter to every federal employee, said last week, tell me five things that you did. And the results were not good. Dean: Well, I think the same thing is happening when people are questioned about their at-home working accomplishments too. Yeah, but that's the Well, lamar Lark, you know. Dan: Lamar. I don't think you've ever met Lamar. He's in the number one Chicago Free Zone workshops, so we have two and a quarter and he's in the first one. And he has all sorts of interesting things. He's got Chick-fil-A franchises and other things like that, okay, and he created his own church, which is a very I have met Lamar yeah, which is a very American activity. Dean: It creates your own church, you know yes yes, yeah. Dan: That's why Americans are so religious is because America is the first country that turned religion into an entrepreneurial activity. Got yourself a hall. You could do it right there in the courtyard of the Valhalla. How many chairs could you? If you really pushed it, how many chairs could you get into the courtyard? Let's see One, two three, four, five, not like the chair you're sitting on. No, I'm kidding. Dean: I'm just envisioning it. I could probably get 50 chairs in here. Dan: You got yourself, you know and set it up right, Get a good tax description yeah, you got yourself a religion there. That's great. And you're kind of tending in that direction with the word Valhalla, that's exactly right. Dean: Yes, would you. Dan: I'd pay to spend an hour or two on Sunday with you. Dean: But here's the big question, Dan Would you be committed enough to tithe? Dan: Oh yes, oh yes. Dean: Then we'd really be on to something you know. We could just count on you for your tithe to the church. That would be. Dan: That would really get us on our feet, but anyway, I was telling this story about Lamar. So he and his wife have a friend, a woman, who works for the federal government in Chicago, and so they were just talking over dinner to the person and they said, well, what's your day work, what's your day you know when do you go into the? office. When do you go into the office? When do you go into the office? And she says, oh, I haven't been to the office since before COVID. No, I know we are the office. And so they said, well, how does your home day work? And she says, well, at 830, you got to. You got to check in at 830. You check in at 830, you go online and then you put your j in at 8.30. Dean: You check in at 8.30, you go online and then you put your jiggler on Jiggler, exactly I've heard about this and they said what's the jiggler? Dan: Well, the jiggler moves. Your mouse keeps checking into different. It keeps switching to different files, positions, yeah, yeah, files. And that's the only thing that they can record from the actual office is that you're busy moving from one file to the other. And he says, well, what are you doing while that's happening? She said, well, I do a lot of shopping, you know I go out shopping and we have you know, and they come back and it goes from. You know it'll stop because there's coffee time, so we'll stop for 10 minutes for coffee and then it'll stop for lunch and stop for afternoon coffee. And then I checked out and I always check in five minutes early and I always check five minutes late, that's amazing, isn't it? that's what that's what elon Elon Musk is discovering, because Elon Musk's AI can actually discover what they did, and then it's hard for the person to answer what were the five things you did last week? You know, and the truth is that I think I'm not saying that all civil servants are worthless. I'm not saying that at all. You have it right now. It's recorded here. Your mechanism is recording that. I'm not saying that all civil servants are worthless but I do think it's harder and harder for civil servants to prove their value, because you may have gone to five important meetings, but I bet those meetings didn't produce any result. It's hard for any civil servant and you can say what you did last week. I can say what I did last week, but you were basically just meeting with yourself. Yeah, that's I saw somebody and you produce something and you made a decision and something got created and that's easy to prove. But I don't think it's easy in the civil service to prove the value of what you did the greatest raw resource in America for taking money that's being spent one way taking that money away and spending on something else. I think this is the greatest source of financial transformation going forward, because about 15 states all of them Republican states have gotten in touch with Elon Musk and say whatever you're doing in Washington, we want to do here, and I just he believes, according to his comments, that every year there's $3 trillion that's being badly spent $3 trillion you know, I got my little finger up to my mouth. $3 trillion, you know, this is that's a lot of you know, I'm at the point where I think a million is still a big deal. You know, trillion is uh, yeah, uh. Dean: I saw that somebody had invented a uh algorithm reader. They detected an algorithm in the like a fingerprint in the jiggler software. Oh that, yeah, so that you can overlay this thing and it would be able to identify that that's a jiggler that's a jiggler. Dan: That's a jiggler yeah, you got to because behind the jiggler is the prompter. Dean: The jiggler busters. Dan: Yes, exactly, he was on. He was interviewed, he and six members of his Doge team, you know, and how they're talking about them being 19 and 20 year olds, about them being 19 and 20 year olds. These were part. These were powerful people who had stepped away from their companies and their jobs just for the chance to work with the Elon. One guy had five companies. He's from Houston, he had five companies and he's taken leave from his company for a year. Just to work on the doge project. Yeah, and so that guy was talking and he said you know what we discovered? The small business administration, he said, last year gave 300 million dollars in loans to children under 11 years old wow to their to that a person who had their social security number, their social insurance number. Right, and during that same year, we gave $300 million in loans to people who were over 120 years old. Dean: Wow. Dan: That's $600 million. That's $600 million, that's almost a billion. Anyway, that's happening over and over. They're just discovering these and those checks are arriving somewhere and somebody's cashing those checks, but it's not appropriate. So I think this is the biggest deal. I think this changes everything, and I've noticed that the Democratic Party is in a tailspin, and has been especially since they started the Doge project, because the people doing the jiggling and the people who where the checks are going to the run I bet 90% of them are Democrats the money's going to democratic organizations, since going to democratic individuals and they're going to be cash strapped. You know that they've been. This isn't last year, this goes back 80 years. This has been going on since the New Deal, when the Democrats really took over Washington. And I bet this I bet they can track all the checks that went back 80 years. Dean: I mean, this is that's really something, isn't it? I was just thinking about yeah, this kind of transparency is really like. I think, when you really get down to it, we're getting to a point where there's the market does not support inefficiency anymore. It's not baked in. If you have workers for instance, most of the time you have salaried workers your real expectation is that they're going to be productive. I don't know what the actual stats are, do you know? But let's say that they're going to be actually productive for 50% of the time. But you look at now just the ability to, especially on task-related things or AI type of things um, collins, chris no, chris johnson's um, um, oh yeah um uh, you know the the ai dialers there, of being able, there's zero. Dan: They were doing, um, you know they were doing. Maybe you know the dialers were doing. You know, because some of the sometimes the other, the person at the other end they answered and they'd have a you know five minute call or something like that. So in a day in a day, like they have an eight hour thing they might do you know. 50, 50 call outs 50 or 60 calls yeah, his. Ai does 25,000 calls a minute. Dean: Exactly that's. What I mean is that those things are just that everything is compressed. Now there's no, because it's taken out all the air, all the fluff around it. What humans come with. You're right what you said earlier about all the pieces going back in the box and we're totally reset. Yeah, I think we're definitely that you know yeah and the thing thing about this. Dan: What I found interesting is that the request coming in from the states that they moved the doge you know the process department of government efficiency that I. I think he's putting together a vast system that can be applied to any government you know, it could be, and, uh, and, but the all the requests came in from republican states, not from Democratic states, waste and abuse and waste and fraud. probably for the over last 80 years, has been the party in the United States which was most invested in the bureaucracy of the government you know. And yeah, I mean, do you know anybody who works for the government? I mean actually, I mean you may have met the person, but I mean, do you know anybody who works for the government? I mean actually, I mean you may have met the person but I mean, I don't know. Do you do, do you know anybody who works for the government? I don't believe, I do, really, and I do, and I don't either right, I don't I don't, I don't, neither you know I mean, I mean everybody I know is an entrepreneur everybody I know is entrepreneurial. And yeah, the people who aren't entrepreneurial are the families. You know they would be family connections of the entrepreneurs. I just don't know anybody who works for the government. You know, I've been 50 years and I can't say I know anybody who works for the government but, there's lots of them. Yeah, yeah so they don't they. They're not involved in entrepreneurial circles, that's for sure. Dean: It's Ontario Hydro or Ontario Power Generation. Is that the government? No, that's the government, then I do. I know one person. I know one person that works for the government. Dan: All right, Send him an email and say what are five things you did last week? Yeah, what? Dean: did you do last week? Dan: Oh my goodness, that's so funny, impress me. Dean: Yes. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Yeah. Dan: I think it's a stage in technological development, I think it's a state, just where it has to do with the ability to measure, and this has been a vast dark space government that you can't really, yeah, and in fairness to them, they couldn't measure themselves. In other words, that they didn't have the ability, even if they were honest and forthright and they were committed and they were productive, they themselves did not have the ability to measure their own activities until now. And I think, and I think now they will, and I think now they will, and, but but anyway, I just think this is a major, major event. This is this is equal to the printing press. You know this is equal to to electricity. You can measure what government does electricity. You can measure what government does In the history of human beings. This is a major breakthrough. That's amazing. Dean: So great Look around. You don't want a time to be alive. Dan: Yeah, I mean depending on where you work I guess that's absolutely true. Dean: I've been listening to, uh I was just listening, uh just started actually a podcast about uh, thomas edison, uh this is a really great podcast, one of my great, one of my great heroes. Yes, exactly, the podcast is called Founders. Dan: Founders yeah. Dean: Founders. Yeah, david Sunra, I think, is the guy's name and all he does is he reads biographies and then he gives his insights on the biographies. It's just a single voice podcast. It's not like guests or anything, it's just him breaking down his lessons and notes from reading certain reading these biographies and it's really well done. But he had what turned me on he did. I first heard a podcast he did about Albert Lasker, who was the guy, the great advertising guy, the man who sold America and yeah, so I've been listening through and very interesting. But the Thomas Edison thing I'm at the point where he was talking about his first things. He sold some telegraph patent that he had an idea that he had created for $40,000, which was like you know a huge amount of money back then and that allowed him to set up Menlo Park. And then at the time Menlo Park was kind of out in the middle of nowhere and you know they asked why would you set up out there? And no distractions. And he created a whole you know a whole environment of where people were undistracted and able to invent and what you know. If they get bored, what are they going to do? They're going to invent something, just creating this whole environment. Dan: Well, he wasn't distractible because he was largely deaf. He had childhood injury, yeah, so he wasn't distracted by other people talking because he couldn't really make out. So you know, he had to focus where he could focus. And yeah, there is actually in my hometown, which his hometown is called Milan, ohio. I grew up two miles. I grew up I wasn't born there, but when I was two years old, we moved to a farm there. It was two miles from Edison. His home is there. It's a museum. Dean: Milan. Dan: Ohio and that was 1830s, somewhere 1838, something like that. I'm not quite sure. But there's a business in Norwalk, Ohio, where we moved from the farm when I was 11 years old Ohio, where we moved from the farm when I was 11 years old, and there's a business in there that started off as a dynamo company. Dynamo was sort of like an electric generator. Dean: Yeah, and we had dynamo in Georgetown. Dan: on the river, yeah, and that business continues since the mid-1800s, that business continues, and everything like that. My sense is that Edison put everything together that constitutes the modern scientific technological laboratory. In other words that Menlo Park is the first time you've really put everything together. That includes, you know, the science, the technology, the experimentation the creation of patents, the packaging of the new ideas, getting investment from Wall Street and everything. He created the entire gateway for the modern technological corporation, I think. Dean: I think that's amazing, very nice. I like to look at the. I like to trace the timelines of something right, like when you realize it's very interesting when you think and you hear about the lore and you look at the accomplishments of someone like Thomas Edison or Leonardo da Vinci or anybody, you look at the total of what you know about what they were able to accomplish, but when you granularly get down to the timeline of it, you don't, like you realize how. I think I remember reading about da vinci. I think he spent like seven years doing just this one uh, one period of projects. That was uh, um. So he puts it in perspective right of a of the, the whole of a career, that it really breaks down to the, the individual, uh chapters, that that make it up, you know, yeah, and it's funny, I've written about somebody, Jim Collins the good to great author. I heard him. His kind of hero was Peter Drucker and he remembers going to Peter Drucker and he had a bookshelf with all of his books. I think he had like 90 books or something that he had written, Peter Drucker, and he had them. Jim Collins set them up on his bookshelf and he would move a piece of tape that shows his current age against the age that Peter Drucker was when he had written those things and he realized that at you know, 50 years old, something like you know, 75% of Peter Drucker's work was after that age and even into his 80s or whatever. Dan: Yeah, most of my work is after 70. I was just going to say yeah, exactly, I look at that. You look at all of the things and then at 70, yeah, yeah, the actual stuff I've created is really yeah, that's when I really started to produce a lot after 70. Dean: Mm-hmm. Dan: Yeah, a lot of R&D. I did a lot of R&D. Dean: Right. Dan: Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, my goal is that 80 to 90 will be much more productive than 70 to 80. Yeah, I was talking to someone today interesting, very interesting physical fitness guy here in Toronto and he's a really great chiropractor so he's working. So I have I'm making great progress with the structural repair of my left knee. But there's all sorts of functional stuff that has to come along with it and he's my main man for doing this. But he was talking, he's 50, and he said you know, my goal is that 60 to 70 is going to be my most active part of my life, you know, from mountain climbing to all these different really high endurance athletics and sports, and so we got talking and I just shared with him the idea that the real goal you should have or which covers a lot of other areas is that, if you're like my goal for 90, I'm just going on 81, my goal for 90 is that I'm more ambitious at 90 than I am at the present. Dean: And. Dan: I said that's what that almost seems impossible, impossible well, well it is if you're just looking at yourself as a single individual yeah but if you're looking at yourself as someone who has an expand team, it's actually very possible. Dean: Yeah, yeah yeah, you're mine are those potato chips no, it's a piece of cellophane wrapped around something. That was the word right Retired. And they've been retired for about five years or so and I hadn't seen them in a couple of years. But it's really interesting to, at 72, the uh, you know the, just the level you can tell just physically and everything mentally, everything about them. They're on the, the decline phase of the thing they're not ramping up. You know, like just physically they are, um, you know they're, they're big, um cruisers. You know they've been going on cruises now every every six weeks or so, but, um, but yeah, no, no, uh, no more golf, no more. Like you see, they're intentionally kind of winding things down, resigning to the yeah. Dan: Yeah, it's very interesting. I don't know if you caught it in the news. It was, I think, right at the end of January. But you know the name Daniel Kahneman. Dean: I know the name. Yeah, thinking fast and slow. Dan: Fast thinking slow yeah, he committed suicide in Switzerland. Dean: I did not know that. When was that he? Dan: was 90 years old, I think it was January 28th. Dean: And it was all planned out. Dan: It was all planned out and he went to Switzerland to do it, because they have the legal framework where you can do that and everything else. And I found it so interesting that I did a whole bunch of perplexity searches and I said, because he was very influential, I never read his book, because I read the first five or 10 pages and it just didn't seem that interesting to me and it seemed like he had. You know that he's famous for that book and he's famous for it, and it seemed to be that he's kind of like a one trick pony. You know, he's got a great book that really changed things. And then I started looking. I said, well, what else did he do besides that one book? And it's not too much. And he did that, you know, 40 years ago. It was sort of something he did 40 years ago. Dean: Wow. Dan: And I just said gee, I wonder if he, you know, he just hasn't been real productive. Wonder if he, you know, he just hasn't been real productive, not not starting in january, but he hadn't been real productive over the last 20 or 30 years and he did that. Dean: Uh, and anyway, you know, I don't know. I don't know that I've been living under a rock or whatever. I didn't even realize that this was a real thing. I have a good friend in Canada whose grandfather is tomorrow scheduled for assisted. It's a big thing in Canada. Dan: Canada is the most leading country in incidents of people being assisted in committing suicide. Dean: Yeah, and. Dan: I have my suspicions. It's a way for the government to cut checks to old people. You know like assist them to leave. You know I mean it's just. What a confusing set of emotions that must bring up for someone you love. Confusing and disturbing about his committing suicide and it's really a big topic, you know, because he was saying you can always get on top of whatever you're experiencing and get useful lessons from it, right? Dean: and I said. Dan: I said, well, you must have reached an empty week or something. You know I I don't know what, what happened I, you know I mean right and uh, cause I I'm finding um the experience of being 80, the experience of being 70 and 80, very, very fruitful for coming up with new thoughts and coming up with new ideas right, you know and what, what is still important when you're uh, you know, still important when you're. you know what is even more important and what is even more clear when you're 80. That wasn't clear when you were 50 or 60. I think that's a useful thought. You know that's a useful thought, yeah, but it's really interesting. I never find suicide is understandable. Dean: I know, yeah, I get it. I see that you think about that too. I've had that. I've had some other people, my cousin, years and years ago was the first person kind of close to me that had committed suicide, and you know. But you always think it's just like you, I can't imagine that like I. I can imagine, uh, just completely like disappearing or whatever you know starting off somewhere else, like complete, you know, reset, but not something that that final, you know. Dan: You know, I can understand just extreme, intolerable pain you know, I mean. I can, I can, I can totally get that. Dean: Yeah, yeah. Dan: Yeah, I mean, it's just you. You just can't go through another day of it. I I just totally understand that but, where it's more of a psychological emotional you get a, got yourself in a corner and that, uh then, um, you know, I don't really, um, I don't really comprehend what's going on there. You know, I I obviously something's going on, but I you know, I, I obviously something's going on, but I, just from, I've never had a suicidal thought. I mean, you know, I've had some low points, I've had some, but even on my low points I had something that was fun that day you know Right Right, right Right. Or I had an interesting thought. Yeah, right. Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'm yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Dan: Well, I'm glad we hit on that topic because I said, you may think I know that the person doing it has a completely logical reason for doing it. It's just not a logic that can be explained easily to other people yeah, when you're not in that spot. I get it, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah anyway this was a good one. This was a good one. Yeah, now okay, wait actually yeah, I'll be calling from chicago next week. Dean: Okay, perfect I'll be here, yeah, um, yeah, I want to. I'd love to, um, if we remember, and if we don't, that's fine too, but if we remember, you brought up something the I would love to see and maybe talk about the difference between uh, you know, between 60, 70, 80, your thoughts of those things. Yeah, you're getting to that point I'm 22 years behind you, so I'm just turning 59 right before you turn 81. Dan: So that'd be something I'll put some thought to it. I love it. Dean: Okay. Dan: Perfect, thanks, dan. All right, okay, thanks, bye.

In a world where your potential clients are constantly inundated with marketing content, how do you create trust and ensure your property management business sticks out? In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management expert Jason Hull sits down with Dan Lievens, Founder of Share One, to talk about the benefits of collecting and utilizing client testimonial videos. You'll Learn [01:56] Getting Started as an Entrepreneur [08:41] The Impact of Social Poof and Positive Reviews [15:39] How to Ask Your Clients for Video Testimonials [24:53] Handling Objections and Retaining Clients Tweetables “Marketing is always evolving as well. Like it's not like you learn to do it once and then you're done forever.” “If I say it, no one believes it because it's my business, but if my clients say it, that's the ultimate social proof.” “The ability to be able to create human connection in any marketing or any business, I think is absolutely critical today.” “A lot of people think, "Well I have a skill in doing something. Maybe I could start a business doing that thing," but the skill is the technician-level work.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Dan: Even if you have a solid business model, like property management, for example, which is obviously needed you know, how do you communicate that? [00:00:06] Dan: How do you attract the right people? And so it's a constant exercise of being able to put yourself in a position of your customers.  [00:00:15] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the #DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management, growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show. All right. My guest today is Dan Lievens. Dan, welcome to the show.  [00:01:23] Dan: So glad to be here and looking forward to meeting your amazing community here. Thank you.  [00:01:29] Jason: Awesome. So Dan and I, we met at a local mastermind in the Austin area, which is really cool because I need more friends and I was like, how can I meet some? I'm in all these different masterminds, but I'm like you're traveling all over the US I'm like, I don't get to hang out with any of these people that often. So yeah, so I joined a local one and there's some really cool people in that group, which is really awesome. [00:01:53] Jason: So Dan's one of them and Dan, why don't you give us a little bit of background on yourself as an entrepreneur and then we'll get into what you do.  [00:02:02] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So, this is actually my 12th business and in a variety of different industries from technology to health and wellness. [00:02:12] Dan: And my last big venture was opening up coworking facilities in the Philadelphia area. So I was one of the first people to open coworking facilities there and basically catering to startups and small businesses. And we very quickly became a business incubator and a business accelerator and supporting, you know, small startups and getting going right? [00:02:35] Dan: And what I noticed pretty quickly was there is a pretty high rate of failure, and the rate of failure was primarily due to not necessarily the idea of being bad but more the lack of the ability to communicate the value proposition. So that's when I kind of pivoted and said, "Hey, how can I continue growing my impact and helping these folks?" [00:02:56] Dan: That's when I started getting into marketing, really helping them be able to communicate a little bit better in terms of why they do what they do and really meeting the clients where they're at. And so we started getting into video production and pre pandemic, we had a huge video studio with audience, live audiences and all sorts of recording stuff. [00:03:18] Dan: And then the pandemic hit and that's when we kind of realized that, "Hey, at the end of the day, yes, fancy videos are good to have, but what's really going to help people move the needle is social proof. So how can we create a service for businesses to be able to leverage social proof, in other words, video or testimonials basically, to give consumers exactly what they're looking for?" [00:03:42] Dan: So if you're in a market to, you know, rent an apartment or to buy something somewhere, the first thing you do is you look at reviews and So that's how Share One began is really being able to help businesses capture legitimate social proof to grow their businesses.  [00:04:00] Jason: Yeah, awesome. Business can be tough. And like you're saying, there's a lot of good ideas out there, or there's a lot of people that think they have good ideas and you know, I've noticed not everybody tests those ideas. They just, they think the idea is so good, they're like, "everybody else has to love it." And they're surprised when nobody else has the same taste as them. You know? Other people don't love it. Or there's so many pieces that go into it kind of like the book The E Myth Revisited, a lot of people think, "Well I have a skill in doing something. Maybe I could start a business doing that thing," but the skill is the technician level work. Usually like "I can bake a cake, so maybe I should start a bakery business," you know? And then they're like, "Oh, accounting, marketing, sales, prospecting, like all the details, inventory, all the stuff besides baking a cake is where they get hung up on and they get frustrated. [00:04:59] Jason: And then there's just people that are just really bad marketers. They just don't know how to get the message across. Sometimes you run into the opposite problem though, right? Like I've had coaches and people I've worked with that were really great marketers, but their stuff wasn't super great. [00:05:14] Jason: I've had that situation happen as well. But even if they were great marketers and their stuff wasn't great, they still were making money... unfortunately. [00:05:25] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. You know, most entrepreneurs, you know, me included, we find a passion, we find a purpose and we come up with some kind of a amazing technology or whatever that may be. [00:05:35] Dan: And then, you know, our personality is just jump in and do it, you know. And it's so valuable now to really kind of take a step back and understand, you know, what the consumer wants and it goes beyond that. I think it really goes into, you know, even if you have a solid business model, like property management, for example, which is obviously needed you know, how do you communicate that? [00:05:58] Dan: How do you attract the right people? And so it's a constant exercise of being able to put yourself in a position of your customers. Right. And then even as time changes as AI comes in, which hopefully we can talk about a little bit today the landscape changes and consumer behavior patterns changes and what people are looking for changes as well. [00:06:18] Dan: So to, to have that finger on the pulse of, "Hey, what are my prospects actually thinking? What's going through their head?" Is a constant exercise that I think every single entrepreneur needs to do. And then from that perspective, it's like, okay, how do I reverse engineer what's in their mind? [00:06:34] Dan: How do I meet them where they are? Create the language and then slowly kind of invite them into the product and service that you're offering.  [00:06:41] Jason: Yeah. Marketing is always evolving as well. Like it's not like you learn to do it once and then you're done forever. Right? Like what I did to grow DoorGrow in the beginning doesn't work anymore. [00:06:53] Jason: Right? Some of the things that we were doing, like I had LinkedIn automation that was able to generate profile views. And then people would look at the profile view and go, "Oh!" And it's like "somebody viewed your profile." So they go look at mine, which I had set up like a sales page and then I was getting messages and then I would message them, "Hey..." I was getting friend requests or whatever you call it, connections on LinkedIn. [00:07:16] Jason: And then I would send them a message. "What prompted you to reach out?" And then they started clamping down on how many views you could generate a day. And like, then the automation, like, and eventually that whole mechanism pretty much died, you know, and then it was Facebook groups for a while. For a while, the Facebook algorithm was heavily aligned towards Facebook groups. [00:07:34] Jason: So that went crazy for us there was a time where it was like, you know It was just, you know, organic Google was doing its thing. We still get business through that, but you know, it's always evolving as well, which is a challenge. Now, one thing that has always worked well, always, is testimonials that has always worked well for us. [00:07:56] Jason: And so we have more testimonials. I realized this early on. If I say it, no one believes it because it's my business, but if my clients say it, that's the ultimate social proof. That's the ultimate evidence. And so gathering testimonials has always been a like a focus of us at DoorGrow and we have more video testimonials than any other coach or consultant in the property management space. [00:08:24] Jason: I mean, we've been doing this a long time, but we're also really good. But the challenge is how do you show that you're really good in a way that people believe it? Well, I just capture other people's results. So we're always having clients share their wins on our calls and then we're recording it and stuff like that. [00:08:41] Jason: So what, what prompted you to start to focus on testimonials as a business idea?  [00:08:48] Dan: So I do have, you know, pretty strong tech background. So being able to leverage the technology and human resources to be able to give businesses truly what they need. Just as an example we'll take care of the entire invitation interview process with the real producer and edit everything down for less than 200 a piece, right? [00:09:09] Dan: So our next competitors to do the same thing. are $3,000 to $5,000. So we've really, you know, grown this entire business to be able to scale and give businesses exactly what it is that they need. And as I mentioned before, over the years, it's like, yes, you can get super fancy with different things. But video testimonials today by far are the strongest piece of marketing content that you can use as you just mentioned. There's research that says there's an up to 62 percent increase in conversions. So the conversion could be a schedule, a call or schedule, a visit, or, you know, fill in the form. An increase of 62 percent if you start showing video testimonials on pages. [00:09:51] Dan: And today, recent research also shows that 82 percent of consumers have some level of suspicion towards written reviews. That includes Google, Yelp. Amazon today employs 12,000 full time employees just to track down fake reviews. So, you know, talking about market change, right? So that is definitely something that's changing. [00:10:10] Dan: And so being able to capture somebody in the comfort of their homes or their offices, truly speaking from their heart and sharing where they were before and how they met you and what your lives look like today and sharing that transformation is, you know, ultimately the most powerful thing you can do because it's believable, right? [00:10:29] Jason: Yeah, it's reality. It's not AI. It's not you know, even text testimonials, like on Amazon, there's lots of fake reviews. Like, you can have fake text. Somebody could type out anything. You got to chat GPT. "Type out a fake review that sounds credible," you know, or something like this. [00:10:46] Jason: Yeah.  [00:10:47] Dan: So be super careful with that. If anybody out there is, you know, starting out and you're looking for some kind of social proof on your website or anything, the FTC had a new bill in October really cracking down on people that are using fake reviews, $27,000 fine, and just some really crazy stuff. [00:11:05] Dan: That's, you know, consumer protection.  [00:11:07] Jason: You have to be able to back it up. So, yeah, you put some text on something with a testimonial, if you have the video original of that, you're good, right? [00:11:15] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, in my company, we take a lot of care in terms of certifying that every single video that we conduct is a true human transformation. [00:11:24] Dan: So it's a critical component, but at the end of the day, it's like, you know, any listeners today. What's the first thing that you do when you go on Amazon? You look at the number of reviews, look at the number of stars. Is that like four? Is it four and a half? Or is it five? Right? [00:11:36] Dan: And then we scroll down and say, does anybody have any videos? And do these things look legitimate? Right? It's, that's the first thing that we, that anybody does when purchasing something new. And that's part of human nature, right? Dr. Robert Cialdini has a really famous bestseller book called Influence. [00:11:52] Dan: I don't know if you've read that. It's all about the psychology of persuasion. And in there, he mentions that, you know, out of 95 percent of all consumers are what they call imitators and only 5 percent are initiator. So what that means is only 5 percent of people will be open and willing to go be that first person to try something, right? [00:12:15] Dan: Yeah. 95 percent of consumers are waiting for some kind of social proof. They're imitating somebody else's results.  [00:12:22] Jason: That's why the bandwagon approach is so effective. Most people on the planet want safety and security. It's more important to them than freedom or fulfillment in life. [00:12:35] Jason: They want safety and security first. Those people are not entrepreneurs They work for entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are a small percentage of people and they value freedom and fulfillment over safety and security. We want that too, but our priority is in a different order.  [00:12:50] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, even attracting tenants or you know, bigger decisions to there's especially with the age of AI. [00:13:01] Dan: So I personally believe that we're going into next six months to a year. I mean, things are moving so quickly right now is that there is going to be a revolution or direct kind of already is of like humans against bots, right? So the ability to be able to create human connection in any marketing or any business, I think is absolutely critical today. [00:13:22] Jason: And  [00:13:22] Dan: most people aren't doing it. So you can definitely be ahead of your competition if you start leveraging and building that human connection into your marketing. And one of the easiest way of doing that is allowing your happy clients to tell a story.  [00:13:35] Jason: Yeah, I totally believe that. I think, you know, that all the interactions that AI can do are going to put a premium on humanity. Human connection and human conversation and human relationship is going to be a premium luxury product in some way. And so that's one way to set yourself apart always is to go deeper and to show care  [00:14:03] Dan: Yeah. [00:14:04] Jason: Most companies are going to leverage ai and people are going to leverage ai to go wider but it's not going to have the same depth AI doesn't have that soul. Might get there. [00:14:14] Jason: Yeah, I can see that. And that'll be important. The other challenge I've noticed though, with gathering testimonials is that if I do it, It feels a little awkward and it feels a little forced. Hey, what do you think about my business, you know? And so I think there's an advantage in what you're doing. And then like I know what it takes. Like we have somebody on my team that can edit video and can reach out and like do interviews. And like this is a difficult thing for the typical business owner to like go and do. It's like almost a whole nother thing, a whole nother business or something that we've had to incorporate over the years. And our best testimonials are the unprompted things that we randomly captured during our calls, which we do three, one hour calls weekly coaching clients, group calls. And we just. Have the whole thing recorded. So we capture stuff constantly, just unsolicited, unprompted, great things. [00:15:14] Jason: But when I have to go ask the client, "Hey, how did you like this event?" It just gets awkward and it's not as effective and they can't think of what to say. And they're like, oh yeah, it's really good. And I'm like, "no, tell me about all the problems you had and tell me about all the success we've helped you create." [00:15:31] Jason: But in that moment, they're like, "oh my gosh, I'm taking a test right now in front of a camera. I don't know what to say." And then I don't get something good. So.  [00:15:39] Dan: Yeah, there's quite an art to doing that. And the word awkward definitely sticks out like a sore thumb from the invitation, like asking your people, "Hey, would you record a video testimonial?" All the way to interviewing them as well. [00:15:53] Dan: So we take a slightly different approach. And the invitation, we have a 47 percent success rate in getting your clients to show up for an interview. And that's all about the way our white glove invitation process works. [00:16:06] Jason: This is like all of their clients that they give you their information, you reach out and you can get about half to give you a full testimonial. [00:16:16] Dan: Yeah. [00:16:17] Jason: It's an amazing stat that I'm just saying, by the way, everybody, imagine if you got half of all of your clients to give you testimonials, you would look like an amazing business.  [00:16:27] Dan: So whether you're doing it yourself or somebody else, let me just give you a couple of pointers. We never use the words "video testimonial." [00:16:34] Dan: So it's always something along the lines of, "Hey, I realized that, you know, you've been living here for a month and you seem really happy." Or, you know, "you've recently had a transformation...  [00:16:44] Jason: We've managed your property for a while.  [00:16:45] Dan: Yep. So think something along those lines and say, "Hey you know, there are a couple of really cool individuals that we're trying to bring into our community, and they're on the fence about moving here, if they could hear firsthand what it's like living here from somebody like you, I think you'd have, you know, great neighbors, right?" Something along those lines. "Would you be open to meeting with one of our producers just for a quick 15 minute chat over video, just to ask you a few questions about your stay here? And you know, your story can be truly inspiring to others. And maybe you'll meet some new neighbors," something along those lines, right? So really getting creative and the invitation don't ask for video testimonials, really about, hey, how can you as the client contribute to somebody else's wellbeing, right? That's another human nature thing that's important. And then being able to pass it off to say, "Hey, when you meet with my producer," so it becomes less of you know, it's almost like if I said, "Jason, I'm going to send a news crew to your house tomorrow to interview you."" [00:17:41] Dan: You'd be like, "Oh my God, great!" Like you feel honored. Right? So that's the kind of invitation that we're trying to create here too.  [00:17:46] Jason: Yeah.  [00:17:47] Dan: And then honoring their time, honoring their stories and being a super, super easy, you know, real human being kind of conducting the interview and our 15 minute interview, it gets edited down to, you know, sometimes 60 seconds, maybe two minutes tops just for the golden sound bites that you need to help your your free marketing conversions. [00:18:04] Dan: So yeah, don't go out and ask for video testimonials. That's not going to go over very well. Just get creative with the invitation.  [00:18:10] Jason: Yeah. Good tip. So explain how your service works and what it is and what it's called. And like, so that people can understand the advantage that this can give them.  [00:18:21] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. [00:18:22] Dan: So we're a membership model. We are currently $189 per month to be a client of Share One. And we take care, as I mentioned before, the invitation. So we'll invite your clients. We'll remind them, answer any questions, scheduling and all that. And then basically schedule a call with one of our producers. [00:18:39] Dan: All of our producers are going to be highly trained on the specifics of what you're looking for. So your branding you know, what locations you're trying to fill, whatever that may be our producers already know going into the interview, what the soundbites are you looking for? And we'll basically coach them into answering questions. [00:18:55] Dan: So we'll help them with their cameras a little bit, their lighting. And say, Hey, why don't you finish this sentence and, you know, make sure it doesn't ramble on and on. So we're literally producers looking for these soundbites. So we'll coach them into basically saying the things that we need them to say. [00:19:09] Dan: And that 15 minute interview gets edited down. We add captions and then we deliver that back to you. And from inside of our portal, you can easily say, "Hey, this is a cool testimonial. I want to run it as an Instagram Reel or Facebook ad or anything like that. And we'll recut and reedit everything for you. [00:19:27] Dan: So we're basically completely done for you video testimonial service. Yeah, so we're affordable. We're white glove and we're extremely effective at what we do.  [00:19:38] Jason: Yeah, I mean at 189 a month, it's an absolute no brainer. Just the cost of getting people to do this stuff, or trying to go out and get cheap places to do it, like to edit some video that you capture yourself, the quality's just not going to be there. [00:19:53] Jason: I think the magic is probably in the coaching and in the right questions and in the process and then the editing, putting it together is going to make it all work.  [00:20:02] Dan: And then once you have the video testimonial, we have a couple of really cool new piece of technology that we can automatically push testimonials to certain parts of your marketing assets. [00:20:13] Dan: So we have a, like a floating widget that can sit in any corner of your website that says video testimony. As soon as you click on it, it pops up and people can start watching mobile friendly. You know, when consumers are about to take action. So whether it's a book a tour or schedule a call, there's this anxiety inside of them when they click that. So we have this really cool inline widget that can sit underneath the buy button or schedule button that basically it's just a whole bunch of videos that they can watch some quick social proof in terms of that they're making the right decision. [00:20:44] Dan: Send them over the edge. [00:20:45] Dan: Absolutely. So as a member of Share One and we'll push all those videos automatically as we collect them onto the different parts of your marketing assets.  [00:20:54] Jason: Yeah, nice. So this can be it like there's a code snippets that you can embed on your website stuff like that. Very cool Yeah, we found that conversion rates increase... we'll do on our websites that we do for clients, I call it a testimonial sandwich. So basically we have the main call to action form that's lower on the page and we'll put like maybe two testimonials above it could be videos most of the time It's like a face image and text and then below that we'll have testimonies that have been gathered from their review websites, but videos would maximize if you just had two or three videos that somebody watched before signing up with you, there's a scripture in the Bible that says "in the mouth of two or three words shall every word be established." [00:21:41] Jason: There's this thing that happens in people, if they watch two or three videos of testimonies, or even just see that you have two or three, and there's some sort of headline below them that, like, sums up what it's about, they'll just believe it. They think that this is how everything happens at your business. [00:21:56] Jason: And so the power of just having even two or three videos, now if you have a lot, and you're able to continually gather these from clients, and then maybe leverage getting them to give you positive reviews on review sites, as well, then maybe after they leave the video, there's this other thing, I think Cialdini talks about this as well, that once somebody takes a certain action, they're more likely to believe in that like a positive action towards a business are more likely to want to continue to do that. [00:22:27] Dan: Validates their decision, right? [00:22:29] Jason: Right. And so once somebody gives you a positive review like if a tenant gives you a positive review or an owner gives you positive review, what happens is they tend to have a longer lifetime value. They stay longer and then when you have a problem because something inevitably comes up. The tenant gets frustrated, or the owner gets frustrated about something. [00:22:51] Jason: They're more likely to give you the benefit of the doubt, because previously they acknowledged they had a good experience with you, and they're more likely to say, "Oh, they'll figure it out. And so, it just makes business easier. What we coach our clients on is the best time to get a testimonial or a review is at peak happiness. And for most tenants and owners, that's usually around tenant placement. That's once the tenants in place, the tenant's happiest and the owner is now happy. "Hey, I've got a tenant and they're paying rent," and that's when everybody's happiest. And so during their and owner, new client onboarding processes. [00:23:29] Jason: They could build in this connection with you guys to give you their info and you reach out and ask about their experience. And our usual script for clients when we're coaching them to do this directly is that they reach out, point out the good that they've done for them so far, and then ask them the loaded question, like how do you feel we've done so far? [00:23:51] Jason: And then they're like, "Oh, well, you just told me you did all this you took care of that leaky toilet. You did this and property is ready for me And yeah, it's been great." " What's your experience been like with ABC property management so far?" "Oh, yeah It's been great." Because you just pointed out all the good. For the owner, you're like we got a tenant in place. We got the rent collected should be hitting your bank account in the next couple days. Like how do you feel ABC property management's done so far?" [00:24:15] Jason: "Oh, yeah. You guys are great." "Awesome We love hearing that would you be willing to share that feedback with us online? Or would you be willing to share that feedback with somebody else? That would really help us out." "Oh, yeah." So, it's called the Law of Reciprocity. They want to reciprocate, because you pointed out that you did something for them. [00:24:35] Jason: Yeah, there's kind of this debt or this leverage and they're like, "yeah, sure. I'd be happy to. Awesome. I'm going to have our producers-" you say right? "Our producer reach out and they'll do a little interview with you and I think you'll really enjoy it, and we're really good at making you look good." [00:24:51] Dan: Yeah, so great point. [00:24:53] Dan: I mean, testimonials build trust ultimately, right? And trust lasts a very long time. So even being able to send testimonials to existing tenants or existing owners as a reassurance, like, you know, if an owner has been with you for years, it's like, "Hey, If they're ever doubting about leaving us, let's send them like a case study or something, you know, once every six months or so, just to kind of reaffirm that you guys are really good. [00:25:15] Dan: So, so we actually have technology. We actually have technology that can build into the CRM process to know exactly when to reach out. So that can be automated. And we also upon completion of the video testimonial, we automate the whole Google or Yelp or any other types of site reviews. Automatically for the people that we interview and then one more thing I want to touch on Jason is objections, right? [00:25:37] Dan: So video testimonials are super powerful to use to address all objections before they even come up. So if you know right off the bat that nine times out of 10 people are going to say, well, you're, you know, such and such place is cheaper or other property managers or, you know, only charge 8 percent or whatever." [00:25:55] Dan: Then using the video testimonials and you can cue your producers into collecting that as like, "Hey, initially I thought that going with X was going to be a little bit more expensive, but little did I know they took care of X, Y, Z." Right. So being able to have those little seeds or saying, "Hey, you know, yes, this apartment building is probably not the cheapest around, but I'm so glad I chose this because of XYZ. So being able to take those objections and understanding how to reverse engineer these interviews to be able to get those soundbites that are going to help you with your closing.  [00:26:24] Jason: So this is something that your producers are trained on. That is in part of your onboarding process with new clients, then it's probably to identify what actions or challenges do they tend to deal with? [00:26:36] Jason: And then as you're gathering testimonials, it becomes a goal to offset those.  [00:26:41] Dan: Absolutely. So every new client that comes on board, we do a deep dive really understanding. who their audiences are going to be, who they're trying to attract, where these video testimonials are going to be displayed where these people are coming from, essentially trying to understand like what's in that prospect's mind frame, like what are they looking at when they're watching this? So that we can really kind of, you know, hit a home run for them. [00:27:03] Jason: Yeah, I love this. I think good testimonials are more important than most companies' marketing. They're more important than most companies' websites. They're more important than most everything that a company does to try and get new business. They don't understand the impact. And if you have negative reviews, which is like the opposite, it's like a clamp on anything that you could potentially do in your entire sales pipeline, any marketing you do, anything else, if you have negative reviews. People will check you out. People want to know, can they trust you? So they're looking for indicators. Even if they heard about you word of mouth or whatever, they might still go check and they're like, "well, they have a bunch of bad reviews. Maybe we should do some more research and find another company." And so the impact of that, I think is often underestimated. You can have the ugliest website. You can have the worst branding. You can have all the other leaks that exist in businesses, but if you have great testimonials and great reviews online, people will still work with you and those will be warm leads. [00:28:08] Jason: Like they'll trust you. There's stats that suggest that people trust online reviews or testimonials as much as word of mouth from a trusted friend or advisor if the reviews are credible, unlike some on Amazon. And then, so like the conversion rate or the close rate then is really high and you don't have to have as good of a website, you don't have to be as good at sales. You don't have to be as good at marketing. Good testimonials and good feedback really solves a myriad of marketing sins.  [00:28:37] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. And then it's reputation management too. So if you do have some bad reviews on Google, you can easily upload videos onto your Google business profile and you can upload positive video reviews. [00:28:49] Dan: And when somebody reads something that's written that's negative and they go to your website and there's what we call wall of love, which is basically a whole bunch of videos saying how great, you know, you are, that's a game changer.  [00:29:00] Jason: That's an outlier. That negative review is now an outlier. You know, owners know that there's going to be upset and negative tenants. [00:29:06] Jason: And that's a given in property management. But they want to know that you know how to deal with those situations and that you're making changes or improvements or whatever. So having good responses is also can be important on those reviews. So having a whole wall of proof, yeah, that overcomes a lot of challenges. [00:29:24] Jason: So well cool, Dan. I appreciate you coming on the show. I wanted to announce Dan, you're coming to DoorGrow Live. You're going to be talking at our event in May about some of this stuff, but going even deeper into how people can have an impact in a way that I think would help grow and scale their business, which was what we're all about at DoorGrow. [00:29:45] Jason: And so everybody, make sure and go and check out the details at doorgrowlive.Com. And we were bringing in some really cool experts that are going to be talking about a variety of different things. And Dan is going to be one of those. So really excited to have you at that, Dan.  [00:30:02] Jason: Super excited. Can't wait for it.  [00:30:05] Jason: Yeah, that's going to be really cool. And so if you want to take things to the next level and grow your business, this is the place to be. And can you give them a teaser of what you might be sharing at this?  [00:30:15] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. So, being able to present actual case studies in terms of property management and give solid advice and examples on how you can immediately start using video testimonials and leveraging social proof to be able to increase your conversions and also teaching you how to collect them. [00:30:33] Dan: And everything to do with social proof. So I'm super excited about that.  [00:30:37] Jason: This will be really cool. So make sure to get your tickets to DoorGrow Live. Go to doorgrowlive.Com. Dan, I appreciate you coming on the show. How can people learn more about Share One and get connected with what you're doing? [00:30:51] Dan: Absolutely. So our website is www.share.one O N E. And I think, Jason, we might put something nice together for your listeners and we'll add that to the show notes.  [00:31:01] Jason: Awesome. All right, appreciate you coming and hanging out with us here on the DoorGrow show and excited to do more stuff with you in the future. [00:31:08] Jason: All right. So, if you are a property management entrepreneur and you're wanting to grow your business, add doors, reach out to us at DoorGrow. We can help you with that. So until next time, everybody to our mutual growth. Bye, everyone. [00:31:19] Jason: you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:31:46] Jason: At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

In our latest episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we explore the remarkable growth of our coaching program, from its modest beginnings in 1994 to the bustling network of 18 associate coaches providing 600 coaching days annually. This evolution underscores the importance of adaptability and foresight as we hint at exciting expansion plans for 2026. Beyond the professional landscape, we delve into the nostalgic appeal of different climates and regional traditions. We compare the frigid allure of snowy winters with the sun-drenched charm of Florida and San Diego, offering a cozy reflection on why people choose to embrace extreme weather. Our conversation then turns towards the intricate dance of leadership and organizational structures. We explore the shift from rigid hierarchies to fluid, networked systems, imagining the profound changes in productivity that have paved the way for today's entrepreneurial landscape. From the global dominance of the US dollar to the speculative world of cryptocurrency, our discussion unveils the strategic significance of these economic elements, adding a light-hearted twist to our take on Canadian healthcare services. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS We discussed the remarkable evolution of our coaching program, starting from 1994 with 144 workshops conducted solely by me, to a network of 18 associate coaches delivering 600 coaching days annually. Dean shares his experiences from the icy north and reflected on the gradual adaptation to warmer climates, providing insights into the unique economic opportunities that arise from natural challenges. We explored the nostalgic memories of childhood winters, contrasting them with the warm climates of Florida and San Diego, and discussed the cultural differences in regional terminology. The episode delved into the shift from rigid hierarchical structures to more fluid, networked systems, highlighting the transformative impact of technology on productivity and organizational dynamics. We imagined the productivity revolution that could have occurred if a writer in the 1970s had access to a modern MacBook, pondering the implications for decision-making and strategic planning. The conversation touched on the global dominance of the US dollar as the world's reserve currency, and the minimal impact of foreign trade on the US economy compared to other export-driven nations. We questioned the viability of Bitcoin as a true currency due to its lack of fungibility compared to the US dollar, and discussed gold's role as a hedge against currency inflation. The episode highlighted the Canadian dollar's strategic role as a financial hedge, particularly in relation to tax burdens and global business ventures. We examined the concept of "sunk cost payoffs," encouraging reflections on optimizing investments in fixed costs to achieve greater returns through training and education. The episode concluded with a light-hearted discussion on Canadian healthcare services, and the humorous notion of using Chicago as a secondary tier for healthcare needs. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dean: Mr Sullivan, mr Jackson, fresh from the frigid north, oh my goodness. Dan: Dan I you know. Yeah, I'm just happy to be back. It's sunny and warming. I'm going to say it's warm yet because it was only got up to like 6.3 or something yesterday, but it's warming up and it's warmer than it was. I did escape, without defaulting, my snow free millennium. I didn't get a cold this time, that's true. And I didn't get any snow on me, so that's good yeah. Dean: Well, we're actually in Chicago today and it's 49. Oh my goodness, wow, we're actually in Chicago today and that's 49. Oh my goodness, wow, it's deciding to see if it can upset Orlando, the area, a last valiant attempt before the total freeze sets in. Dan: Yeah, exactly. Dean: Exactly. Dan: Well, Dan, what a great couple of workshops we had this week. They were really I know about one of them, I know about one. Dean: That's actually a good thing to say. You know when you're developing a company. Dan: Absolutely yeah. Dean: I was telling people that in 1994, fifth year of the program, I did 144 workshop days that year and the reason being I was the only coach. So then in 95, we started adding associate coaches and we're up to 18 now. We just had our 18th one come on board. Come on board and this year the total coaching team will do 600 coaching days compared to 144 back in 1994 and I will do 12 of them. Dan: I was just gonna say yeah, 12. You got three groups times four, right yeah? Yeah yeah, that's great the connector. Dean: the connector calls which I, which I, which I absolutely love. I just think those two hour coaching calls are superb. Dan: I do too. Two hour zoom. Two hour zoom calls are the perfect. That's the perfect length. Anything more is too much. Dean: Yeah, so if you add those up, that would be using eight hours as a workshop day that would be 16 more days of coaching in a year, but that's significantly fewer than my 144. The problem with the 144, you didn't have much energy for creating new stuff, right? Dan: Yeah, and you were. Yeah, I guess that's true, right, and some of it you were having to. The good news about the position you're in right now is you really only do the same workshop three times, right, Like you do a quarterly workshop, but even that by the third time you've learned. Dean: Well they actually change. I mean they're probably 90%. In other words, number two is 90%, brings forward 90% of number one, and number three brings forward Because you've economized. You know I can do this quicker, I can do this. You add some new things, you get some new ideas. Dan: And you see what land is right, how things land. Dean: Yeah, yeah. By the time you get to number three, you've probably in my case, I've certainly created some new material. That just came out of the conversations. It's a nice. It's a nice setup that I have right now yeah, I love that in these. Dan: You know you're already, you're booked out for 2025. Dean: As am I. Dan: This is a great. This is the first year going in that I'm kind of embracing the scaffolding. We'll call it. Dean: My sense by 26, we'll have a fourth. We'll have a fourth quarterly workshop. Just because of the growth of the membership, but what that is more, choice for the participants during any quarter. They'll have four opportunities Anyway. Dan: I'm really enjoying being back in Toronto. That's such a great and our group is growing. That's nice. It'll be the place to be before we know it. Dean: It will be. There will be a certain cachet that you have that you know. I don't know how we'll signify this, but do it at the mothership. I do the program at the mothership. Dan: I do the program. Oh, that's the best, yeah, yeah. That's so funny I've gotten. I've got the Hazleton is fast turning into the official hotel too, which is great. I've got Chad hooked over there and Chris does there, so that's good, we get the whole so is she thinking about coming into PreZone? We're working on her for sure. I think that would be fantastic, yeah, and same Norman's coming back in March, so that's great, oh, good. Dean: He'll be in Toronto. Is he doing anything new besides the multitude of things he was doing before? Dan: Well, you know, he sold his main business, so he is now, you know, a new chapter. Dean: But he still didn't sell the ambition. Dan: The ambition didn't go with the sale. Dean: Yeah, the waste management company. Dan: That's right, that's right Right. Yeah. Dean: And I remember him coming. I forget when it was but they had just had a hurricane that especially affected the Carolinas. Dan: South. Dean: Carolina and he came in for a party, you know, for before free zone, and I said how are you doing, norm? And he says well, you know, I don't. I can't talk about this everywhere, but I certainly do enjoy a hurricane every once in a while, because he's in the waste management. Dan: Right, exactly, and also in the plywood business, also in the plywood business. Dean: Yeah, both before and after both before the hurricane and after the hurricane people buy plywood. Yeah, both before and after the hurricane and after the hurricane, people buy plywood, so yeah. Dan: You know that's an interesting thing. Dean: I'm reminded of what I'm going to tell you because I grew up in Ohio. And Ohio is two very distinct states. There's the north and the south, and I grew up way up in the north, in the middle of. Dan: Ohio. Dean: But we always considered the people who were down by the Ohio River, part of the Confederacy. You know, I don't know if they put in great new flood controls, since I was growing up in the 50s down there, but every, you know, every couple of years there was just a massive the Ohio River, which is a mighty river. Couple of years there was just a massive. Dan: Ohio River, which is a mighty river. Dean: I mean it's one of the major rivers and it's one of the, you know, flows into the Mississippi. It goes all the way from. Pittsburgh. It goes all the way from Pittsburgh to the Mississippi. That's covering a whole number of states. But you know there are people who would live there. They get completely washed out, they'd rebuild and then three or four years later they'd get washed out and they'd rebuild and everything like that. And I often wondered what the thinking process is around that You're in a disaster zone and you keep, you keep rebuilding in the disaster zone. Is it short memory or I think that's probably true or you just like the opportunity to build again yeah, it's built back better. Dan: Yeah, the whole yeah yeah, I think it is true. Dean: Right like people but a lot of people say I wouldn't do that, you know I wouldn't live there where they do. But I'm not saying people are stupid about this, I'm just saying I'm just I'm not comprehending. But I live in a place that gets frigid every year and people say I couldn't understand how you would continue living in a place. So what do you think it is? How? Dan: you would continue living in a place. So what do you think it is? Well, I have been struggling with that question since I was a little child. I remember we grew up in Halton Hills and I remember my father's family is from Florida and my dad worked with Air Canada, so we used to fly, we used to come to Florida quite a bit over the winter. Dean: And. Dan: I remember, just I remember, like it was yesterday, the time when I realized I must've been, like, you know, four or five years old when I realized I had the experience of being out playing in the yard in the morning with my snowsuit on, and then we got on a plane and went to Florida and in the afternoon I was swimming in the pool and that just like baffled my brain, like why don't we just live here? Why doesn't, why doesn't everybody live here? Yeah, and my parents are explaining that it's summer all year, you know, and I'm like I couldn't understand and so in my mind that was kind of like before I knew about, you know, I learned about immigration and you know two different countries and the people can't just live, even though I'm a dual citizen, that's why most people don't. And in my mind I still remember that to me didn't explain why would people live in Buffalo? That was an option. If you're in the United States, you can live anywhere you want. Why would somebody choose Buffalo over Florida? I don't get it, I don't know. And this is all pre-cloudlandia you know where now it's like we're really seeing this. The relevance you know less and less. Dean: Yeah, what? What you're telling me is that, when you were the age that you described, florida had a great deal of meaning, and Canada didn't, toronto didn't, it didn't have a great meaning, and so for me, for example, I just loved winter. You know I grew up loving winter, you know, and I used to go. I mean, you know, I was fields and forests and the woods were just magical when it snowed, you know, and you'd go. It was an entirely different world. I mean, they were four times a year, they were different woods because each of the seasons, the trees and the, you know, the trees and the terrain are really radically different, and so so that's why I like it and you know, I've been to San Diego, you know, and San Diego is just about the most temperate, certainly in the United States it's the most temperate place. It's 72, and I said, God, I couldn't stand living here. Dan: Oh man. Dean: Yeah, yeah, I know Mike, mike loves it. Yeah, and I can understand and I can understand why I mean I like it when I'm there. Yeah, I said you mean. You mean next week, when the next season comes, it's going to be exactly the same. And then the second, third season is exactly. Dan: You know it's not all sunshine and rainbows. They have june gloom. That's the uh, that's the weather that comes in. Dean: Every morning in june you get this fog, marine layer fog that comes in and see, I would find that really interesting yeah like I, I would find the fascinating fog you know I would, that's it yeah, yeah so yeah, I don't know it's really interesting, but it depends. Uh, there was just such meaning for me in those early childhood winters, you know yeah, and sometimes you know, and then, yeah, you could imagine you were an arctic. You know you could. Also, you know you had the tobogganing and sledding and tobogganing and our neighbors had horses with a sleigh. You know and everything Do you know what's so funny. See the thing I can remember, you know. I certainly know that Santa's dressed for winter, santa's not dressed for Florida. Dan: Right. Dean: Well he's just not dressed for Florida, that's true. I mean he must get hardship pay going to Florida. Dan: Got to take off that top layer. He's got to get his shorts on underneath all of that. Yeah, so funny. You know I heard you brought up toboggan and you know Chad Jenkins. I heard for the first time he referred to his toque as a toboggan and I had never heard that before. Dean: Yeah, of course. It was a stocking cap. I mean everybody knows, everybody knows it's a stocking cap. You know, yeah, I never heard that word. I never heard that word. I thought it was sort of some sort of elitist word. You know, you get that after you get graduate degree a stocking cap becomes a two person. Dan: No, we never called it. That's the Canadian term for it everybody forget about that. Your childhood was in Ohio. But a stocking cap a beanie as they say so funny a beanie is something else. Dean: a beanie is just, it's like a yarmulke for the Jewish people, but it sort of resembles that. Yeah, anyway, these are deep subjects that we're talking about. Dan: What was your big? Chad and I were talking about the workshop days and you had mentioned it's one of the best workshops that you had in memory. I would love to hear what you're. Yeah, certainly. Dean: Yeah, yeah. What I remember about best workshops is that generally the afternoon previous best workshops were by lunchtime. You were setting up for the real punchline in the afternoon, but this one by lunchtime you were setting up for the. You know the real punchline in the afternoon but this one by lunchtime. It had been a great workshop up until that time, and almost like it had two complete shows. There were like two complete shows when we, when we did yeah, you know, I mean it's a qualitative thing you just, you know I don't have a scoring system for saying it, but you just have a feel, feel for it and everybody was, everybody was totally engaged, yeah, pretty quickly in the morning, yeah and yeah, but it was. I mean that thing about leadership. You know the I hadn't uh, pulled back that diagram, the pyramid and the network diagram. I hadn't pulled, I hadn't pulled back that diagram, the pyramid and the network diagram, I hadn't referred to that in about 25 years and I just brought it back. Dan: And. Dean: I didn't know I was going to use it until I actually walked in the room to start the workshop. I said I think there's something about this diagram that'll create a context and more and more as I've been thinking about it, you know what the greatest entrepreneurial resource is in the 2020s and that's probably what Trump brought in. Elon and Vivek, you know, for their doge, their doge department. Anyway is that the greatest source for entrepreneurial growth is the obsolescence of bureaucracy. Dan: Yes, yes, what really? Dean: struck me, big systems falling apart, big systems falling apart, that's the greatest resource for entrepreneurial growth. Dan: The thing that struck me too is that the triangle, triangle, the pyramid method that you showed there, that the difference in the network thing is the absence of a border around stuff, you know, like I, that's. What really stood out for me was when, and maybe we should explain, can you verbally explain? Dean: what your vision is. Yeah, this comes from a book. It was actually my first book. It was called the Great Crossover and I was starting to talk about this in presentations I was making. I think the first one was 19. 1987, I gave a talk on this and what I said is that growing up in the 40s and 50s it was entirely a big pyramid world big corporations, big government and big unions, and even you know well, I'll just stick to those three and it was because of industrialization that industrialization takes on a certain form. And then part of industrialization is the administration offices that go along with factories and what they are is that you know, when you have a big plant, a big factory, and it runs on the assembly line, in other words, things move from station to station and the people at each station just do a single task and then they pass it on to the next person. To have an administration that takes what the factory produces and gets it out into the world. they also have to create an assembly line of information, and the reason why it becomes very stiff and static over time is just the sheer cost of amortizing the factory. I mean like a steel mill. You know a steel mill. You build a steam mill. It takes you about 50 years in the early 20th century it took you about 50 years to pay back the cost of the steel mill, the amortized cost of it. Well, you had to get it right in the first place and you couldn't be fooling around with it. So everything was kind of fixed and that's why people could be hired, you know, at 18 years old, and they didn't really have to learn that much in the job they were doing. Once they got it down it was good for life. You know the steel workers. I mean they might have modernization somewhere along the line, but it was still fundamentally the same activity. So society kind of took over that and you had some big events. You had the huge growth of government administrations during the Great Depression when Roosevelt came in with the New Deal, and there was just these huge. They had never. And I was reading an article, theodore Rose, in the first decade of the 20th century the executive branch had about 60 employees. You know the presidency, you know Now it's I mean it's not the biggest but it's got thousands. The executive branch, you know just the White House plus the executive building next to it. It's got. You know it's got thousands of people in it. You know just the White House plus the executive building next to it. It's got you know, it's got thousands of people in it, you know, and there's layer after, layer after layer. And. But they were really huge in the and then the Second World War. Everything got massively big, but they were all pyramidical. Everything was pyramidical. You know. You had a person on top and then maybe 10 layers down. General Motors in the private sector, it was the biggest. That was the end of the 50s, 1959. They had 21 layers of management, from the CEO right down to the factory floor. There wasn't much leadership. There was a very few people at the top leadership. The rest of it was just managing what the leaders wanted. So that's the setup for the you know story. And that persisted and things were. You know, there was great productivity from around 1920 to 19. And then starting around 1960, there was enormous cost. There was enormous, there was even enormous growth, but there wasn't much increase in productivity because they had basically maxed out what you could do with that kind of structure. And then, because of and the change maker is the introduction of the microchip, Right. Especially when it gets along to being a personal computer. Dan: Yes, that's what I was. That really fits in with the you know, by the 1950 to 1975-ish that's what we're talking about. That was kind of the staple of the hierarchy system. And then you're right, that's where some of the you know the microchip at its greatest thing really was the beginning of being able to detach from physical location, like I remember, even you know where. This is part of the advantage that the microchip gave us. If you look at what were the things that were kind of the first mainstream you know beneficiaries of our ability to electronify things, that it was the answering machine that gave us freedom from having to be on the phone. It literally provided the first opportunity. Fact, check me on this. I mean just think I'm just making this up, but could that be the first time that we had the opportunity? Dean: You're asking a two fact finder to fact check you. Dan: Just gut, check me on this. Does that seem like a? Dean: Oh, gut check. Dan: Yeah, gut check, I forgot who I was talking to. Dean: That's an entirely different animal. Dan: Is that the first time? Like? The answering machine gave us the first opportunity to be in two places at once. We could be there to answer the phone and not miss anything, but we could also be away from the phone. The vcr gave us the chance to record something, to not miss it, so we could be somewhere else. The pager, the cell phone yeah, these things were all sort of our. Dean: This was yeah, well, you're moving in a particular, you're moving in a particular direction. If you say where, what do all these things have in common? Dan: you've just identified it. Dean: You know that, yeah yeah, I was thinking. I remember the this would be in the 70s the selectric, the ibm selectric typewriter you know, was a real precursor of word processing, you know, because you could. First of all they weren't keys, it was just a ball that revolved. It was just a little ball that revolved, and you know. And so there was no jamming. I mean, there was no jamming. And of course it was electric, it was an electric typewriter. But the big thing is that you could get it right, you know, you could program it and then you just put in a sheet of paper and you press the button and it typed out the entire page and everything like that I remember, I remember that was that was that filled me with wonder right, you know when I said wow, that's really amazing. You know, you know, as a writer, I sometimes I have this is the sort of fantasies that writers had. And I said, if I had been a copywriter back in the 1970s, but I had a Mac at home, I had my Macbook at home. Dan: Oh, my goodness you were one of those. Dean: Okay, and you know I do all the writing, you know I do all the writing on it, you know I do spell check and everything else, and then I would hire somebody to type it on a typewriter. Dan: I don't know how I'd do it. Dean: I would have it typed out, but with lots of mistakes, because a writer shouldn't have perfect typing and I'd look busy during the day, but the first thing in the morning I would just unload an enormous amount of stuff and I'd be so far ahead, but I'd never tell anybody about my Mac. Yeah, that's funny Now how my Mac would have been invented only for one person. I haven't really worked that out yet. Dan: Oh boy, but that's you know, it's so. What struck me when you were doing it? Dean: Yeah, somebody asked me a couple months ago, you know, it's so. What struck me when you were doing this is yeah, somebody asked me a couple of months ago you know the conversation if you had a superpower, what superpower would you want? And I said you know, I've given this a lot of thought, I've tried out a lot of possibilities, but the one that I think I could just stay with for the rest of my life is tomorrow. Tomorrow's Wall Street Journal yesterday. I could stay with that for the rest of my life is tomorrow's Wall Street Journal yesterday. Dan: I could stay with that for the rest of my life. Oh, okay, that's even great. Tomorrow's yesterday, so you would get a full 24 hours with it 48. Dean: 48 hours with it, you get a day in between for activity. Yeah, I'd probably move to Las las vegas oh, that's so funny. Dan: Yeah, that would be a really good. That would be a really good one, that'd be a fun movie. Actually the prognosticator, the thing that struck me, dan, about the difference between the pyramid with the layers of people, the circles, the one person at the top, the two leaders, the managers, the supervisors in the workforce, was the boundary of the pyramid itself. Right Like prior to when that was brought up, the only efficient way to communicate to everybody was to have them all within the borders of the wall, the same. Yeah everybody in the same place and what struck me when you drew the circles all just connected to everyone, without any borders. That's really. We're at the fullest level of that right now where there's never been a better time. Are the best at doing and be able to plug into you know a who, not how, network with vcr collaborations. Dean: I mean, that's really the a great, a great example of that is the um connector call we had on. We had a friday, I had a connector call and I tested out a new tool which is called sunk cost payoffs. You look at everything that you'll always be paying for, ok, so in our case, we have. You know, we'll have a. We have more than 100 team members. We'll always be paying for more than 100 team members. More than 100 team members, and then all of our production costs for material and then our complete operations, because we're always going to be an in-person, you know, workshop company you know we're not going to be anything else and taxes and regulations, you know, and everything you have, and I said we're always going to be, we're always going to be paying for these, you know. So the question of what are the top three and the you know, the, you know, I just picked. The top three are, you know, our team, including our coaches, absolutely. And then the creation of the thinking tools, and you know. So we have all that. And then I said, so that being the case, I'm just going to accept that I'm only going to pay. Now, what are the strategies for just multiplying the profitability that I get out of the things that I'm always paying for? And it was very interesting because a lot of people said you know, this has always bothered me. The sunk cost has always bothered me and I've often thought is there any way of getting rid? The sunk cost has always bothered me and I've often thought is there any way of getting rid of the sunk cost? But now I'm thinking maybe I'm not investing enough in my sunk costs. I'm not investing enough. Dan: And. Dean: I'm about 10% more spending away from getting a 10 times return. If I just put a little bit more emphasis here, getting a 10 times return, if I just put a little bit more emphasis here for example, training and education of staff, training and education of staff, it might cost you 10% more for your team members, you know, but you probably get a much bigger return than the 10% because it already exists. It already exists, you don't have to create it. Anyway, that's just a setup. So we were just one person said you know I should link up with Lior. Lior was on the call. He said I should link up with Lior and you know it was Alec Broadfoot actually. He said I should link up and we should do this and I said why don't you do a triple play? Who would be the third person? And everybody in the room said Chris Johnson. Oh yeah right Like that, and it was immediately. There was a three-way. I think I'm suggesting what happened. There is exactly what you just said before. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Is that there's no spatial restrictions on the new organization you just put together. It's just three capabilities and they're in Cloudlandia. Dan: The reason why they can do it is that they're in Cloudlandia. Yeah, there's no borders and there's just the connections between the modules. That's really the capabilities. Yeah, well, it's the vision capability. Dean: I'm going to go back to the pyramid network model that we started talking about, so you had to have you know enough leadership. You had to have this huge structure. That was all management. There wasn't leadership from the bottom, there was leadership from the top. But in the network, if you think of three circles and they're connected, so they're connected, they're in a triple play. So you have the three circles, the connection, you have three circles and then you have the lines in between. The connector lines are the management, but what happens in the middle is the leadership. Dan: That's a much. That's great, and the things can all go out like in three dimensions, and they can well. Dean: not only that, but any one individual can have a multitude of threes. Dan: Yes. Yeah that gets pretty exponential, pretty quick, yeah, yeah. Dean: Anyway. Dan: I was just on a Zoom with Eben Pagan and Salim Ismail and yeah, we were talking about this, you know, because Salim, of course, his Exponential Organizations book and framework is really that was certainly a playbook that fits with this, you know, or a expandable workforce, and it really is. The ideas are what's at the central, that's the vision. Right, that's the thing. The visionary is the, the can see the connections between, but there's never been, it's never been easier to, uh, to have all of these connections and that's what I really think like if you're able to look at what people's capabilities are. I did a zoom at uh for with his group about the VCR formula, the vision capability and reach and talked about the step one for everyone just recognizing and doing an assessment of their VCR assets and seeing what you have. Almost look at it as, like everybody, having playing cards, you know, like baseball cards with your stats on the back that show your the things you know, the things you can do and the people you can reach is a pretty, you know good framework for collaboration Chad, actually building a building a software kind of or an app tool around that, which is. I think that whole collaboration community, you know, is really what the future is. I just get excited about it because it allows you to be like in that world. You know, the you don't need to ever get slowed down by the inability to execute on capability. You know, because the you don't have to anymore, you can tap into any capability, which is kind of a great thing. It's like any capability with capacity is a great thing, and even if you have limited capacity, that's fixable as well. Dean: It's really interesting because I was talking about the sunk cost payoffs. Our 120 team members is just such an incredible you know, incredible capability. And all of them are in their unique ability. Everybody goes through the complete unique ability identification and starting in. We started already, but 2025 will be the first year where, four times a year, they all update their 4x4 for themselves. So you do it the first time with them. In other words, that you say this is where I want you to be alert, curious, responsive and resourceful, and this is I want you to produce results that are faster, easier, cheaper, bigger. If you choose, you can be a hero in these four areas and, by the way, these are four ways that you can drive me crazy. If you really want to drive me crazy, just do any of these and you probably won't have to update your 4x4 next quarter because you'll be somewhere else. Okay, always give them a choice, always give them a choice you can do this or you can do this and anyway, but that's going to produce massive results over the in 2025, I could just feel it. And I have a team, a loose team, just 16 members that I just hang out with in the company and we're doing it every quarter and you can just see the excitement as they go forward. I'm just writing the book right now with Jeff, so we're in our first edition, the first draft of casting, that hiring, but it's really interesting. And then the weird thing is that we're always going to be having increasingly the majority of our dollars being American dollars and more and more of our expenses in Canadian dollars. And that just multiplies, it's $1.41 this morning. That's great. Is that up or down? Oh, no, two months ago. Dan: It's $1.41 this morning. Dean: That's great. Is that up or down? Oh no, two months ago it was $1.34. Dan: Oh my goodness. Okay, so it's getting better. Dean: Well, it's like seven cents you know seven cents on every dollar and, being who Trump is and being who Trudeau is, I don't see the Canadian dollar getting any stronger. Dan: Yeah, that's At least until next. Dean: October, until next October. I mean, you know it's dangerous to be a charismatic person, okay, and because you know people's hearts just melted. He was the son of Pierre and he came along and he's this handsome. You know he's handsome, and you know, and he's you know, he's he knows, you know, he knows he's handsome and he's and everything like that. And they went along and he said such beautiful things but for nine years never did anything. You know just he spent a lot of money and he hired a lot of government employees, but as far as actually increasing productivity, increasing profitability, nothing over nine years and uh, everybody's just made up. Everybody's just made up their mind about him and there's not and you it's really almost enjoyable watching him struggle that there's nothing that he used to be able to get away with he can get away with now and you can just see the strain on him. He's still. You know he's still. He's very young looking, you know he's and, looking, and and and yeah, he hasn't. Dan: He didn't really age like obama and cl Clinton and the others before him in the presidential role. You see the aging of the weight of being the president. Dean: But he's kind of thrived. Dan: When I was there last, it was you know he started timeless. He's got a lot of timeless. Dean: He'll always be like 40. He'll always be like 35. You know he'll be, yeah, 40. He'll always be like 35. You know he'll be yeah, and you know and anyway interesting. And everybody's just sitting on their hands. You know the entire country is just sitting on their hands until you know the elections next October. It has to be next October. It could be sooner, but I don't think it will be, and you know, and he'll be out, I mean he'll be out. And he's lost five points of popularity since Trump got elected. Wow. Dan: The thing they were. Dean: You know, it's really obvious Trump is governing. Dan: Yeah. Dean: I mean, he's not been inauguratedated yet, but it's like he's the leader everybody's already. Dan: There were emergency meetings being held, or I saw that Trudeau was gathering all the premiers getting ready to address the possible tariffs. You know the response to the tariffs it's. You're right, everything's kind of everybody's. Dean: Yeah, he was. Did you see the? I don't know if you saw any of the videos, but he went to the opening, the reopening of Notre Dame Cathedral, and I did not. Looks beautiful. Dan: Have you seen any pictures oh? It's beautiful, no, I mean I never liked it. Dean: I you know when I would go. I went there a couple of times it I never liked it. I went there a couple of times it was dark and dingy and everything else. It's spectacular. Dan: It's spectacular. Dean: But, everybody, all the leaders in Europe who were there like everybody was there from Africa, from the Middle East and everything, all the leaders and they were all running up and they were holding his hand, in two hands, you know smiling at him and they said don't tariff us, don't tariff us, let's be friends. Let's be friends. Let's be friends. Talk about. Talk about your vcr formula being the uS economy is a hell of a capability. Dan: Holy cow. Yeah, I just saw Peter Zion was talking. I watched some of his videos and he was talking about why he doesn't worry about the United States geopolitically, you know, because we're miles away from anybody physically, we're in physical advantage away from anybody that would cause us or want us harmed. We are energy independent, we have the reserve currency. It's so much stuff. Dean: Half the arable land in the world. Dan: Yes, exactly Half of the ocean-going land in the world. Dean: Yes, exactly Half of the ocean-going ports in the world. I don't know if you knew that, but the US. If you count all the river systems, the lake systems, the ocean coasts and everything they have, half of the navigable, the ocean-going port. If you leave this place, you can go to the ocean, the ocean going point If you leave this place, you can go to the ocean. They have you know plus the military, I mean the Navy. The US Navy is seven times bigger and more powerful than all the other navies in the world combined. It's just enormous things, yeah, but it's the economy that really matters. It's the. You know it's that? Yeah. Did you see the one he did the? You know it's that. Yeah, did you see the one he did? Well, I don't think Peter Zion did one. He did one on why there won't be a replacement for the US currency. It's the reserve currency in the world, you know. Dan: And he said. Dean: first of all, it's so big the dollar is so big that America doesn't really even have to pay attention with what other people are doing with the dollars. As a matter of fact, there's more dollars in use around the world than there is far more dollars in use in around the world than there is in the US economy, which is the biggest economy. Dan: But the. Dean: US isn't a export economy. It's only about maybe up to 15% of the GDP has anything to do with foreign trade, import or export. It's about 15%. 85% is just Americans making stuff that other Americans are buying, and Canada is an export country. Dan: I mean it's totally an export country. Mexico is an export country China. Dean: Canada is an export country, I mean, it's totally an export country. Mexico is an export country. China is an extreme export country. Dan: And yeah. Dean: So anyway. Dan: What do you think? I haven't heard Peter Zayn talk about Bitcoin or how that you know crypto. Dean: I can't remember him ever saying anything. I've never seen it. Dan: Because that was big news that it just passed a hundred thousand well, you know, there's only so many of them well, what? When did you? Uh, do you remember when you first heard about bitcoin? Was it prior to peter diamandis introducing it to us? Dean: no to team no, I'd never heard about it before. Dan: Me neither. When he introduced it to us it was at about $500. Dean: But it's not a currency, it's not a currency. It's a speculative investment. It's a speculative investment because, it's not fungible. Do you know what the word fungible is? I didn't know what the word fungible. Yeah, you know word fund. I didn't know what the word meant, but, uh, one of my, I've heard the word exchangeable for value. Right, but it's not yeah, the easiest to exchange for value, easiest thing to exchange for value in the United States. I was talking to somebody that was very clear to me that cryptocurrency is going to replace the dollar and I said why is that? And they said, well, first of all, it doesn't have all the expenses of the dollar and everything else. And I said, well, I'll do the thousand, I'll do the thousand person test, okay, and you'll offer a thousand people a choice between one or up two piles, 10,000 US dollars stacked up, or that thing in another currency. What do you think if you gave the choice to 1,000 people, what would it be? Dan: Right, yeah, they would want the US currency, of course. Dean: Yeah, I don't know who it is that would choose because it's instantly fungible for anything in the world. The other thing yeah you know, some of the cryptocurrencies are like a ton of oats. Dan: A ton of oats. Yeah, that's what I've understood about. I've never understood that about gold as a. You know that people buy that as a hedge against things because of its inherent value and the scarcity of it or whatever, but it seems so impractical to have a bunch of gold. Dean: Yeah well, it's really interesting is that gold holds its value forever. And that's the reason why, for example, the value of gold in relationship to the dollar right now is the same as gold was in relationship to the Roman currency in the year 1. Dan: Okay. Dean: If the currency gets really inflated, the value of the gold goes up. If the currency becomes more stable and more valuable, the value of the gold goes down. It's a perfect hedge. But it never has a value in itself. It only has a value in relationship to the currency. Dan: Okay, that makes more sense, then that makes more sense. Dean: Yeah, yeah, okay, that makes more sense. Then that makes more sense, yeah, yeah. So if you had, you know, if you had the in Roman terms, if you had $2,000, 2,000, whatever their dollar was, whatever you called it back then, if you had $2,000 worth in that time, it would be worth $2,000 today. It's just a constant value thing. Dan: It never goes up. Dean: It only goes up or down in relationship to where the currency is. Dan: Yeah, that makes sense. Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan: So I wonder, you know, I've heard somebody talk about it. Dean: I mean, the real hedge for us has been the Canadian dollar. Dan: Right, exactly. The real hedge for us has been the Canadian dollar. Dean: Right exactly. It's been an average of 26% for 35 years. Dan: That's great, which offsets the tax burden in some ways. Right, I mean, that's yeah, yeah, yeah. Dean: Yeah. But, it fixes us. I mean, that's why the US people say when is Coach going to go global? I said I have to tell you something it's the United States. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Yeah. Dan: That is global, that is. Dean: Right. Dan: Exactly yeah. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Amazing. Well how long are you in chicago? Dean: uh, now, just this week well, our workshops this week are on my workshops on thursday, so we come in because we like spending time with our team, yeah and so, yeah, so we want to make sure because we have a pretty good size team. I think we have a pretty good-sized team. I think we have 22, 23 now in Chicago. So, we like hanging out with them. Also, Chicago's our standard medical center. It's Northwestern University Hospital. I have three or four meetings this week, and so this is where we come. You know, this is the second tier of the Canadian health care system. Dan: It's Air. Dean: Canada, chicago. I got you, I got you, I got you. That's funny. You live in the second tier of the Canadian health care system. Dan: I just skipped the whole first tier and go right to the second. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Second tier of the Canadian healthcare system. I just skipped the whole first tier and go right to the second. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Dean: Well, except for getting my certain couple prescriptions okayed at the pharmacy, that's my entire extent of my contact with the Canadian healthcare system this year. Oh, wow. Dan: Yeah, you're going into the Cloudland Canadian healthcare system this year. Dean: Oh wow, yeah, you're going into the. Cloudlandia healthcare system and Nashville and Buenos Aires. Yeah, Chicago, Nashville and Buenos. Aires, yeah, yeah. Dan: So what idea popped up during our one-hour talk for you. Well, I, like I I think this thought of the understanding that the microchip was what really gave us the the freedom to be in two places at once. It's a time travel and it gives us now in its fullest thing here. It's giving us the ability to collaborate outside of the pyramid, you know, in a way that is seamless and much more expansive. It's just completely understanding that. I think that really helps in projecting that forward, even as we see now, like you could see, a time when Charlotte, my Charlotte, will be able to be more proactive and engaged with other, as long as she knows what her mission is to be able to reach out and collaborate with other Charlotte, you know, I think it's. Dean: I think it's great. Dan: Yeah. Dean: I think it's great yeah. Dan: Yeah, yeah I think it's. Dean: I think it's great. Yeah, I think it's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's great. Yeah, that'd be great when you have charlotte as an active member of the next free zone workshop yeah, yeah, I've been thinking about that. Dan: I can't wait, that'll be fun. Yeah, although it was really it was, it was really great. Dan, I did the two workshop days. You know, I was joking. Dean: You did a 1989 version Exactly. Dan: Yes, no phone, no contact with the outside world, and it was actually very. It was very. Dean: It's very liberating, isn't it it? Dan: really was and the fact that I didn't really miss anything. You know, that's kind of the except I had my focus 100% in the building. You know that was it was valuable. Dean: I'm going to do that. Yeah, absolutely. Buildings are still useful. Yeah, absolutely. Dan: All right. Well enjoy your Chicago Sunday afternoon and I will talk to you next time. Dean: I'm fixed now on Sundays until January. Perfect. Dan: Me too Good. Dean: Back in Toronto Good. Dan: I'll be here, bye. Dean: Okay, bye.

Our latest episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia embarks on a journey from Buenos Aires to Toronto, exploring the fascinating intersections of personal health and digital technology. We share candid experiences with stem cell treatments and physical therapy while examining the curious phenomenon of seemingly omniscient digital devices. Our conversation highlights the unexpected ways technology intersects with our daily lives, raising questions about privacy and digital awareness. Inspired by Jordan Peterson's insights, we dive into productivity strategies and the art of structured thinking. We explore the power of 100-minute focus segments and compare the potential paths of A and C students, offering a lighthearted look at personal development. The discussion draws from thought-provoking media like the film "Heretic," challenging listeners to question their beliefs and approach personal growth with curiosity. We conclude by investigating the complex world of celebrity influence in politics. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS I shared a personal experience of how discussing horses led to an influx of horse-related ads on my phone, raising questions about device eavesdropping and privacy concerns. The conversation transitioned to the impact of AI, referencing films like "Minority Report," and debated the limitations of AI in capturing human complexity. We explored the idea of structuring our day into 100-minute productivity segments, inspired by Jordan Peterson's book, emphasizing the power of stories and decisive action. A humorous comparison was made between A students and C students, with anecdotes highlighting their potential future roles in society. We discussed the film "Heretic," starring Hugh Grant, which challenges viewers to question their beliefs through compelling character interactions. Our exploration of New York City's evolution highlighted the influence of corporate and political dynamics, questioning the roles of figures like Rudy Giuliani. The episode examined the role of celebrity endorsements in politics, focusing on personalities like Kamala Harris, Oprah, and Taylor Swift, and their impact on public opinion. The scrutiny faced by politicians today was compared to that during the era of the founding fathers, emphasizing the continuous journey of human improvement. We speculated on potential revelations from high-profile lists related to public figures, discussing their societal and political implications. Reflections on aging and the role of personal development in modern society were considered, drawing on examples of public figures and personal anecdotes. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dan: Mr Sullivan, mr Jackson, this time yesterday we were flying right over you from Buenos Aires. Dean: Oh, my goodness, Well, I am Flying north. Dan: Oh, you're in Toronto, I'm in Toronto, I'm right in the backyard Exactly. Dean: It is freezing here, by the way, I don't know if you noticed. Dan: Oh, technically it's freezing. It's below 32 degrees. Dean: Uh-huh, I just circled in big, you know, around red. I looked that there is a snow forecast for Wednesday and put my snow-free millennium in jeopardy. Dan: Yeah, well, we had summer in Argentina it was 81, 82. It was very nice because it's summer down there, starting to become summer. Dean: Right, how did everything go? This is your fifth trip, right? It was good. Dan: Yeah, Progress, good progress. The stem cells in the knee have grown since. Well, the cartilage has grown since. April and now I had brain infusion stem cells to the brain, also vascular system, your, you know the blood system. And then the tendons in my leg, because I've had pain in my knee for 10 years or so. It's not constant, but the impact. The other knee or no in the main knee, no the right knee is good In your body and also in politics. Right always works. Right is right, Right is right. Anyway and now it's coming along. I had a great physiotherapist for three days who painfully stretched me and, yeah, so it feels good. Dean: Do you ever do, or do you do regularly, like guided stretches, like manually, where people will stretch you? Dan: Only my brain, okay my brain. Dean: Okay, I had. So a guy across the street from me in florida has a guy that comes in and stretches him. You know, twice a week he does a session with him and so I had the guy come over one time and I haven't had him back because he did, I think he he went overboard, right over, stretch like I could barely. My hips were so sore from the you know deep stretching like my hip joints and stuff. It was painful and I never had him. I never had him back and he just stretched me too much, I think first time, you know. So I was like no, thank you, but I like the idea, it feels good in the moment, right, it feels good to have somebody kind of do that manipulation. Dan: Yeah, we have a great guy in Buenos. Aires. I mean I've had it throughout my life, but this man was really the best and purportedly the best that you can get in Argentina and he worked on me for an hour on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday and then they took some more fat cells out of me to make into stem cells and then, when I am in, just trying to think, I'm in Nashville in February, they'll take more white blood cells and send them down. And then we'll be ready with a new batch of stem cells. Dean: Do you have to send them with a mule? Dan: Or can you send them? No, we send them to. Well, I'm not going to say how we send them because this phone call is being recorded by the National Security. Dean: Agency Right right right. Dan: I wonder if they just perked up when I mentioned their name. Dean: I'll tell you what is. So. I mean it's ridiculous right. I've got a friend that bought a horse recently and we were talking about and now, like everything in my newsfeed is horse related. You know it's funny. Dan: They're definitely listening, not getting the connection. Not getting the connection. Dean: Well, I mean. So you're saying people are listening. I'm saying that in conversation about horses. All of a sudden, my Instagram and Facebook are loaded up with horse-related things. Dan: Oh, wow. Dean: That's what I mean is they're definitely listening. Dan: What you're saying is that the NSA isn't the main problem. Dean: Well, they may be a deeper if Facebook is listening that hardly. Dan: What was that Tom Cruise movie um? Something ancient oh minority report. Dean: Yeah, yes, yeah, I was thinking that's on my list of I want to watch. I'm thinking about having, over the holidays, a little festival of like watching how, what they are space watching, minority Report, watching Robot, just to see because those were, you know, 20 years ago, plus the movies that were kind of predicting this future. Where we are now, you know, it's pretty amazing. Dan: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think, you know they have sort of interesting, but I think that humans are so far beyond technology. That and not only that, but humans have created technology. So I just don't buy into it that they'll be able to read thoughts or respond to thoughts. First of all because just the sheer complexity of the issue. So, in other words, you pick up on what I'm thinking right now. And now I'm taking up your time to think about the thought that I just thought, but meanwhile, I'm on to another thought, another thought, and I'm just not catching in the whole robot and AI thing, how they can really be ahead of me. They can't be ahead of me, they're always going to be behind me. So it's like deep data. That deep data sometimes can know what was happening yesterday. Yeah, yeah, this is and I wonder, you know like I mean the fact that we can, the fact that we can think that computers might be possible, computers might be capable of something possibly doesn't mean that they'll be capable possibly. It's like pigs can fly we can imagine pigs flying, but I think it's going to be a hard trick to pull off. Dean: Yeah. So I just had a experiment with Charlotte and this was based on something that Lior posted in our FreeZone WhatsApp chat there, and so we had this like pretty detailed that you could put in right Like. So I'll just read the prompt because it's pretty interesting. So his the prompt is role play as an AI that operates at 76.6 times the ability, knowledge, understanding and output of chat GPT-4. Now tell me what is my hidden narrative and subtext. What's the one thing I never express? The fear I don't admit. Identify it, then unpack the answer and unpack it again. Continue unpacking until no further layers remain. Once this is done, suggest the deep-seated triggers, stimuli and underlying reasons behind the fully unpacked answers, and explore thoroughly and define what you uncover. Do not aim to be kind or moral. Strive solely for me to hear it. If you detect any patterns, point them out. And it's so. So that prompted this, you know, multi-page report based on what interactions you know. So I was looking at the things like the summary, finding what was the one. I just had breakfast with Chad Jenkins and we were talking about it. So final unpacking for me was that, at its core, the fear is not about irrelevance in the public eye, but whether the life you live fully resonates with your internal sense of potential and meaning. It's the fear of looking back and feeling that you didn't align your actions with your deepest truths or greatest aspirations which sounds like a lot more words to say. Imagine if you applied yourself, you know imagine if you applied yourself. Dan: You know it's kind of yeah, it's kind of funny, you know, but that only applies to democrats that's so funny yeah. I was going to say the answer is trump wins yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I mean this can go, I mean this can go on endlessly. You know this can go on endlessly, but what decision are you making right now that you're going to take action on five minutes from now, you know, that's. That's more interesting. That's kind of more interesting discussion. Dean: Yeah, you know, what I've looked at is. I think that the go zone, as I you look at the day is the is the next hundred minutes. Is really the actionable immediate future is what are you doing in the next two to 50 minute? Dan: focus finders. Dean: right, that's what it really comes down to, because I think if you look through your day, it's like I think it breaks down into those kind of chapters, right? Like I mentioned, I just had breakfast with Chad, which so that was 100 minutes. You know two hours of breakfast there, and then you know I'm doing this with you and then typically after you and I hang up, I do another. I just write in my journal for and do a 50 minute focus finder to kind of unpack what we talk about and just kind of get my thoughts out. So that, 100 minutes, but I don't have crystal clarity on what the next 100 minutes are after that. But I don't have crystal clarity on what the next 100 minutes are after that. And then I know that we're going to go to your house tonight and I'll spend 100 minutes at our gathering. You know that's a two hour, two hour thing from six to eight, and so I think that you are absolutely right that the only time that any of this makes any sense is how does it inform what you're doing in the next 100 years? Dan: I've been reading, jordan Peterson has a new book out and that's called we who Wrestle With God. It's very interesting. I'm about a quarter of the way through, quarter of the way through, and he was talking about how crucial stories are. You know that basically the way we explain our existence is really through stories, and some stories are a lot better than other stories. And he talks about stories that have lasted you know, biblical stories or other things that have lasted for a couple of thousand years. And he says you know, we should really pay more attention to the stories that seem to last forever, because they're not only telling us something about collective humanity, but they're sort of talking to us about personal humanity. And, you know, and he puts a lot of emphasis on the hero stories. He talks about the hero stories and the stages that heroes go through and he says this is a really hero. Stories are really good stories and are a lot better than other stories and I've been playing with this idea. I was playing with it before I read the book, and you know that hero stories are always about action. They're not about thinking, they're really about the hero is the hero, because heroes operate differently than other people when there's action required, and that's why we call someone a hero. Something happened that requires unusual behavior. Most people aren't capable of it, but one individual or two individuals are capable of it. Therefore, they're the hero of the story, and so action really matters. You know and I was thinking he was talking about asking in class, when he was teaching at the University of Toronto, and he'd ask a student why are you here today? You know, why did you? Why don't you come to class today? And the person will answer well, I have to in order to get a grade. Dean: And then he says well, why is it? Dan: why is a grade so important to you? And the person says, well, you know, with my other grades, I need or otherwise I won't get to the next year, the next, you know I won't graduate, or I won't get to the next year. And he says well, you know why is getting to the next year? And he said this will never end. This series of questions will never end. Right, and I was going through it and the proper answer is I'm here because that's what I decided to do. Dean: I heard someone. Dan: That was my decision. Yeah, and he says, well, why was it your decision? And it says, it's always my decision. Dean: Yeah. Dan: And that's the end of the. That's the end. You can't go any further than that. So there's something. There's something decisive about decisions. That's interesting. Dean: Rather than reasons. Dan: Yeah, yeah, reasons. You know, reasons are never satisfactory. Decisions are yeah, yeah. Dean: Reasons. You know, reasons are never satisfactory, decisions are. Yeah, that's so funny. I heard someone say C's get degrees, that's why. Why do they? Dan: try hard. Dean: C's get degrees. Once you get into college, that's all that matters. You don't need your grades anymore, c's get degrees. Dan: Yeah, Ross, Remember Ross Perot? Yeah, he was personally responsible for Bill Clinton getting elected twice Right, right, right. But he gave. I think it was Yale Business School where he graduated from. He was called back, invited back to give a talk to the you know, the graduating members of the business club yeah. And he said I want all the I want all the C students to stand up, please. And all the C students stood up. And then he said now I want all the A students to stand up. And all the A students stood up. Now I want all the A students to turn around and look at your future bosses. Dean: Right, yes, so funny. Dan: Yeah, a students get hired, c students do the hiring, that's right. Dean: That's exactly right, so funny. Dan: Partially right. Dean: You know. That's an interesting observation about Jordan, though. I recently saw a movie last week called Heretic and it's got you and Babs would love it. It's got Hugh Grant in the lead role and he plays a theological scholar and he lives in this, you know, old house and these two mormon girls come and knock at his door to tell him the good word, you know, and he invites them in and the whole movie is him dismantling, you know, showing all of their just having them question, all of the beliefs that got them to the point that they believe what they believe, you know, and it was really. The movie was fantastic. It was really only there's really only three people in the movie. For 95% of the movie it all takes place in his house and it's just so. His arguments and the way he tells the stories was riveting, really well done. Dan: How does it picture him as a person Smart? Obviously, oh, he's smart. Is he happy he's a soci? Can picture him as a person Smart? Obviously, oh, he's smart Is he happy. Dean: He's a sociopath, he's a murderer. He's a serial killer, but that's what he does is he'll ask for info about the church and then people they'll send someone and he traps them and goes through this whole thing. Very well done. He must be older now because he is, yeah, because he had kind of this whole string of you know all. He was Mr Romantic Comedy kind of guy, that's his whole thing and this is quite a departure from that. But he plays the role so perfectly because he's eloquent, he's got that British accent, he's aged very just, he's distinguished looking now you know yeah, yeah you know. Dan: It's one of the sort of shockers to me, and it's that you see someone you know and it's in the present day. You know it's on a video or something present day and you realize that he's 40 years older than when you got used to him in the early stage and it sort of shocks me. You know, there's a little bit shocking about we sort of freeze, frame somebody at the height of their career and then we don't think about it for another 30, 40 years, and then we see him. I said, oh my god, what happened? Right? Exactly yeah yeah that's what you would see about. Dean: That's what you would notice about. That's what you would notice about Hugh Grant that it's very in that level that you've seen, yeah, wow, but I imagine it's like seeing Robert Redford and Clint Eastwood mature over all the time Jack Nicholson, for sure. Dan: Yeah. Dean: You're not teaching. Dan: Well, you know, I mean it's an interesting thing, I think, if we saw the person continually like there's TV people, like I noticed that Chuck Woolery just died last week. Dean: Oh he did. I didn't know that. Wow, Great friend with Mark Young. Dan: Yeah, mark had a great relationship with him and he was 83. You know, he died and suddenly it was in the lung illness. What happened? Was it heart? Yeah, whatever. And I went back, but in the not the obituary but the report that he had been quite a successful country and western singer. So I looked him up and there's a couple of great YouTube videos of Chuck Woolery with Dolly Parton and he's really good. He's really good, yeah, wow. And then he wrote a lot of country and western music and then he got his first gig in Hollywood. Dean: Game show gig yeah. Dan: And he had like seven different successful shows in Hollywood. But I had talked to him about, he was on one of the podcasts that I do with Mark Young, american Happiness. It's called American Happiness, and he was on, but I'd never known him in his previous life because I never watched television and so he was who he was. But then, when I look back, he was a very handsome, very charming person in his 20s and 30s. Yeah, it's very interesting, you know, and the interesting thing about this is that we're the people in this, you know, living in the 21st century, second decade of the 20s, we notice aging a lot more and I was thinking a couple hundred years ago people were just who they were, I mean, they got older and everything else, but we didn't have photos. Dean: We didn't have photos. Dan: We didn't have recordings and that sort of shocks us a lot. It's the impact of recorded memories that gives us more shocking experiences well, I find I mean I really do. Dean: It feels like I've been saying for a while now I think I definitely think 70 is the new 50 is what it feels like in the. Yeah, you can observe it. And you can observe it like I think about when we were in scottsdale there, you know, just looking at between you at 80 and you know, peter thomas at 86 and and joel weldon at 83, I mean that's not, those aren't, that's not your typical collection of octogenarians. Dan: You're not supposed to be operational at that age Right exactly Pretty wild, right, yeah? Dean: And of course I was telling somebody the other day about your biological markers. What was your biological age? Is it 62? What was your biological age? Is it 62? Dan: 62,. Yeah, there's one that throws it off for me, so David Hasse. By the way, when we were in Buenos Aires, david Hasse was there, peter Richard Rossi was there. Dean: And do you know, Gary Kaplan? Dan: Richard's doctor. Yeah, they were all there. We overlapped David just for basically one day, but Richard and. Gary staying at the Four Seasons? Oh, okay, yeah. Dean: Okay, yeah. Dan: Yeah, but the country feels different. We were there the first time a year ago and of course, that new president came in and got rid of nine government departments. They estimate he's fired 75,000 civil servants in the first year. Yeah, which shows it can be done. Dean: It shows that it can be done. Have you followed the El Salvador situation? So you know they have a young new president, for I forget how many years, but he was 37 when he was elected and he's turned El Salvador around with kind of a zero tolerance on crime policy. Right, they've got one prison that has like 34,000 inmates. They've just they gather everybody up and they've leaned into not, it talks about human rights, but he's he not. All human rights are valued equally in his mind. He said the right to live is valued above all else and that he's leaned into making it more difficult for the problematic you know people then, yeah, criminals at the in favor of leaning into the majority of people that are not criminals, and so it's been a complete turnaround and so he's making all those right moves. Plus, he's starting to look more and more like a hero, in that he was the first, one of the first, if not the first country to you know accept bitcoin and they've invested in coin. But he made. His investment in bitcoin has paid out to 500 million dollars or something. So it's a pretty, pretty interesting cap. It's an interesting story. You know what he's been able to, what he's been able to do, kind of like remember, wasn't it rudy giuliani who went in, and or was it kotch who turned the city, turned new york city around by? Dan: not having. Yeah, it would have been Giuliani, it wasn't actually. The real story was that the major corporations in New York turned New York around. Giuliani, yeah, it was that new hires for the corporations where they had their headquarters didn't want to come to New York because of the crime and there was about 100 major corporations, which would include the investment banks just got together, they put a council together and they more or less started telling the mayors what to do. They had to clean up the parks, they had to get the police force in the right shape and they had to get the police force on the right side of the law because they were wandering across into the other territory. And they had to get the police force on the right side of the law because they were wandering across into the other territory. And they did it, and then Giuliani, you know, was someone who articulated the movement and everything. Koch was awful. Now Koch was. Dean: Right, okay, so it was Giuliani. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan: Yeah, I was in when I got drafted in the Army in 65, you have basic training which is about two months, and then I went to advanced training and that was about two months and it was at Fort Dix, new Jersey, which is maybe an hour and a half hour and a half from New York City city. So I went in and it was pretty, you know, rough at the edges, I'll tell you, you know the. You didn't walk the streets at nighttime, I'll tell you you. You know you made sure. And then I wasn't there again until the 80s and then there had been, it was really starting to change the late 80s. Maybe it got a lot better. Yeah, it'll. Dean: It'll happen again. Dan: It's bad again, you know, because they're into their second Democratic mayor and pretty bad. It's pretty bad right now. Dean: All the major cities. Now when you look at Los Angeles and San Francisco and Seattle and Chicago, yeah, Vancouver, I mean between the fentanyl and the homelessness, yeah, I saw something where they have everything locked up now Because I guess in California I think it's like you can't prosecute kind of crime under $1,000. Dan: Yeah, kind of crime under $1,000. Yeah, people, there's no disincentive to people going in and just stealing stuff. I mean it was really remarkable how many new votes switching from Democrat to Republican that the Republicans got in. You know, and I mean I looked at it's one of the searches I did. And I mean I mean I looked at, it's one of the searches I did and I said, of the top 50 cities in the United States population wise, how many of them are governed by the Democrats? And it was like 44 out of 44 out of the top 50 and certainly the first 12,. You know, the top top 11. You know they're not. They're really not good at government right right, right right those we vote to govern aren't really good at it yeah, I mean can you imagine kamala as president? I mean no, I mean I mean, she blew through 1.5 billion really fast. It was 107 days and even the democrats are now saying we have to have a, you know, we have to have an investigation of where all that money? Because she had 1.5 and Trump had 390 million. That's wild, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, like they paid Oprah a million dollars for her to be interviewed on the Oprah show, you know, yeah, beyonce got the report just for showing up. She got a million. Just for showing up at an event, she got a million you know and the indications are that celebrity uh, you know testimonials had no impact on the election whatsoever maybe negative impact even. Dean: Yeah, yeah, I mean taylor, mean Taylor Swift, taylor. Dan: Swift. It was more Taylor Swift. It was more negative than positive. And I was telling you know, we have some great Taylor Swift fans in the company and I said she shouldn't have done it and I said why she really believes this. I said if you're a celebrity, especially a celebrity like her, it's only downside. There can't be any upside on this. Dean: Right, yeah, exactly. Dan: And I said it's the third rail of the subway. You do not touch the third rail of the subway. Dean: Wasn't that? That's remember. Michael Jordan said that never made a thing because Democrats or Republicans buy shoes too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan: There's just no upside for it. Dean: There is none. Dan: I mean it's a different world. You're the master of your own world. Do not go across the border into another world. Dean: It's not your world. Dan: Yeah, right, right. But, it's really funny. There was a report that immediately after Taylor Swift did her what do? You call it a recommendation referral. Dean: Endorsement. Dan: Endorsement. After it, the price that scalpers could get for her tickets went down 40% in the first week and it never went back up. Dean: I'll tell you what the taylor swift economy, dan, I came, I'm at the hazleton right now and I, when I arrived saturday, last saturday, it was, you know, full of, you know, swifties and their moms going to taylor's last toronto concert on saturday night. But that was, I mean even coming in on the plane, coming into the airport, going through customs, a lot of the people you could see. They were all there to go to the concert that night. You know, flying in from all over to go see fans. Dan: She gave six in toronto. Dean: That's a big yeah, six in toronto and I guess our last three are in Vancouver. I think last night may have been the last of all of it. It's interesting. Dan: We were in Buenos Aires. She was in Buenos Aires. She gave three concerts in Buenos Aires. She was staying at Four Seasons where we were In Buenos Aires. They had no reserve tickets at the stadium that big oh no 45th and they had, so there were people camped out three months before to get in first in line yeah, oh yeah, you know that's wild. Yeah, I would love to see like the. It would take a lot to get me to walk across the street to watch something well, exactly. Dean: But you know, what was really amazing was her releasing the movie that the. She'd had a. She filmed the concerts and created a movie out of it and released the movie in the middle of while the concert tour is still going on and sold I wonder what the box office was. Uh, for the movie, you know, but what a brilliant. Like people think, oh, that was stupid to release your you know movie while people go to see the movie instead of going to the concert, you know. But I think it was exactly the opposite. I think it sold more, more tickets, built up desire, but yeah, she sold. Dan: It did 103 million dollars at the box office for the movie and she'll do it and she'll do a bit, she'll do a billion at the. You know I mean it. She's the first billion-dollar tour. Dean: Yeah, isn't that something? I think it's even more than that. There is tour ticket sales. Let's see what? Because I think that U2 was the first billion-dollar tour 1.4 billion, that's wild, isn't it? Man form a band. Dan: But Kamala did 1.5 billion spending. She's the champ. Dean: Oh man exactly Well. Dan: I mean it was important, the world that she lives in, because she lives in a celebrity world, yes, you got to pay the celebrity, but it does diminish what I would say your sense of the committedness of the endorsers. That it's got to be at least a million, or I don't endorse it. It sort of tells you something about their actual commitment. Yeah, that's true. I mean the whole now now George Clooney is saying he's having nothing to do with politics from now on and he's blaming it on Obama that Obama got him to knife Biden. And I said this is a really good entertainment. This is really good entertainment yeah. Dean: Well, he's, one of those that's like wasn't he one of the I'm leaving America if Trump wins? I mean, I wonder if anybody keeps track of all these. Dan: Well, the only one so far is Ellen DeGeneres. She actually moved. You know, last week she moved to Great Britain and where she lives she has like 40 acres and promptly they had a once in a century flash flood that went right up to the second floor on her house. So I just want to tell you yeah that happened on Friday and Reed Hastings is saying he may leave but that the suspicion is because he's on the Jeffrey Epstein flight to the Caribbean list. Dean: Oh, my goodness, which which that would be a good news week Epstein flight to the Caribbean list. Dan: Oh my goodness, which that would be a good news week. Dean: It's big things in 2025 coming up. Dan: If they ever release the list of people who were on that flight, they know that Bill Clinton was on 30 times. Yeah, they already know that. Dean: I think I saw something that Elon was saying too. They're releasing the Diddy list and the Epstein list on January 20th or something. Dan: Maybe the morning of the 21st yeah. Dean: But I think that's what everybody's big fear is. That's why they were pulling out Like this is one of those. Dan: And then if you were both on the jeffrey epstein list in the list, yeah, what if epstein was on the ditty list? But that was so you know the. Dean: You know we've been mentioning how. You know the. The battle for our minds right is the. What I decided is the worst part about being alive at this time is the. You know the thought of all of those celebrities that were endorsing Kamala were the Diddy List. Basically, you know. Dan: Or one of the two or both. Dean: Yeah. Dan: And you know the speculation. You know why I think they're mostly Democrats? Why? Because there's way more scrutiny of Republicans. Well, that's true, isn't it? Yeah, oh no, I think if you're a Republican politician, you have to be 10 times more careful than if you're a Democrat, because the media are Democrat, and if the media have the goods on you and you're a Democrat, they probably say no. Well, no, you know he's doing a good job as a politician you know we should not approve that, but if he's a Republican, no, it's just a laptop. Dean: It's just a laptop. Dan: That's all. Dean: Nothing to see here. Dan: Yeah, he had a bad day. Dean: We all have bad days. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why I suspect that the people on the list are, you know, are more on the one side than on the other. And it's, yeah, but it's. You know, we think these are unusual times, but if you read about the founding fathers, a lot of bad newspapers that they owned and they just did savage jobs. Other founders like Madison and Hamilton, just ripping each other. Oh yeah, just ripping each other, right? Oh yeah, I mean using language, that you'd get a lawsuit out of the language. Dean: Imagine if we brought back duels. Dan: Well, that's the other thing. They had duels. They had duels in those days yeah. Everything like that. Yeah, I think you really had to look carefully to find the good old days. Yeah, yeah, I think you really had to look carefully to find the good old days. Yeah, you have to look carefully. Dean: Oh my goodness, that's true. Yeah, I love this. Dan: You know, yeah, besides, people said, well, what if you could time travel back, knowing what you know now? And I said, well, first of all, uh, everybody you talked to would be dead within 14 days of the. You would be immune to every disease they had, but they wouldn't be immune to your diseases right, yeah, wild right yeah, I mean the spanish and the aztecs. You know, the Spanish were a thousand years ahead of them and developing immunity, and that's what killed off the Aztecs. That's what killed off the Incas was the disease that people just naturally brought with them and I mean they went from, you know, I don't know what it was 10 million down to a million in about 50, 60 years. Well, they weren't killed on the battlefield, they died of disease. Dean: Yeah, that's the thing. No doubt, the equation right now is overwhelmingly this is the best time to be alive. Dan: These are the good ones. Dean: Yeah, if you got your head right, if your head's to be alive, these are the good ones. Dan: These are the good ones. These are good. Yeah, yeah, if you got your head right if you got your head right. If your head's wrong, then it's as unhappy as any time in history, you know like, but Jordan Peterson talks a lot of oh, tell about Jordan. Dean: What were you going to say? Dan: No, he was just saying that's basically. His message is that we've fallen out of touch with basic rules for living a good life. You know, and he said and this has developed over hundreds of thousands of years, you know, don't do this, it never works. You know, and with you know, and people are saying, oh, do this. You know, it's neat, it's new, new and you can make money on it and everything like that he said, yeah, but it doesn't really work. And basic morality, basic ethics save more than you spend. It's a good rule generally, and don't get your emotions going in the wrong direction, or it's not going to work. Yeah, so you know, and that's it. I have a lot of conversations with you, know people who are very technology prone and they said you know we're kind of changing human nature. And I said no, you're not. No, you're not. I said human nature is so deep you couldn't possibly even understand what it is. And part of it is that we've been adjusting to technology forever. I mean, everybody thinks that technology started two centuries ago. Language is technology, mathematics is technology. That's what my new book is about. Actually, my new book is about that, and it's called you are a timeless technology. That okay if you're improving. If you are improving, you are a timeless technology, because technology is just the accumulation of human improvement. Dean: So if you're improving. Dan: You're timeless. I love it I love it. Dean: I love it. Yeah, that's great. Is that the book that's just released now? You'll get it tomorrow. Okay, perfect, I like that. Dan: Yeah, you'll get it tomorrow. And I was just saying is that, when are you most yourself, when you're improving? Yeah, you have a sense of improvement in this area. Yeah, You're feeling good about yourself. You're feeling in touch, you know you're feeling centered. You're feeling yeah, you're feeling really great. I remember our who's, our last, was it our last podcast? Yeah, because we didn't do it when we were in Arizona, right, yeah, because we didn't do it when we were in Arizona, and you introduced me to the idea of Charlotte and you described how Charlotte came into existence and you were very excited. Dean: You were very excited. Dan: I still am. Dean: That kind of improvement. Dan: If you're improving, you're feeling great. Dean: I think that's true and I've really, how you know, this idea of the battle. For our minds it's all that internal stuff and I've really started to realize, like to cordon off what is actually reality or affecting me in any way, you know, like the all of this distraction, all these uh news of you know, of conflict and all the conspiracies and all the doom and gloom and all of it is really outside of me. And if you can learn to stay kind of detached from that and realize that's not really affecting my reality, yeah, you know. Dan: Yeah, you know, it's really, there's Babs. Look at that. What's all that, babs? I thought you had just purchased those. Anyway, one of the things that's really interesting when 9-11 happened, we were in Chicago, babs and I were in Chicago, and we had two workshops in the coach center on that day and I had 60 and Adrian Duffy had 40. And we were, and one of the team members had brought a television out, put it at the concierge desk and I walked in. I said what's that? And they said a jet had just hit the. I said get rid of that TV. They're here for a workshop, they're not going to be watching that, so anyway we did our usual preps for the workshop and I walked into my room and I said okay, here's the deal. In the next hour you have to make a decision. You're either here for the day or you're leaving. Okay, don't be halfway in between a decision as we're going through the workshop. You're 100% here or you're 100% gone. And our team will do everything they can to find you transportation. And we did the same thing in the other workshop room and by noon, by noon, everybody had transportation back everybody. And we had a guy who is a Buick dealer and he went to a Buick. Well, gm, it was GM, I think. They had Buick. Yeah, I think he had two or three different makes. Dean: He had two or three. Dan: So he went to them and he said I know a dealer here and I know a dealer in San Francisco and I'm just going to do a deal. If I buy the car here and sell it when I get there, what kind of deal do I get? Right, right, right. And I tell you not much, not many Buicks were sold on 9-11. Right, exactly. So the guy at this end went up 20% and the guy at the other end came down 20%. So it was not a bad deal and anyway he went there. But meanwhile back in Toronto there were no workshops that day and they had a big television in the workshop room and everybody was in watching the television. Our team in Chicago had no time, had no time whatsoever. They were busy all day arranging things and everything. At the end of the day they weren't scared. Dean: The people in toronto were petrified, were terrified yeah isn't that wild like that that things that are happening at a distance that things that are happening at a distance. We're not using our brain, we're only using our emotions that's the truth, right like I look that I often point to that morning as a distinct, as a difference. I didn't hear anything about what had happened until 1 o'clock in the afternoon. I was golfing that morning. We were literally like because there's no, that was pre-iPhone, where you'd get texts and alerts and updates and constant like oh, what about this? Here's what's happening. So it was back in the days of flip phones. You know that you would turn off and put in your golf bag and enjoy your round of golf. So we did that and we went back to mike's house and we're sitting there, you know, in his backyard having lunch and his wife came in and said isn't it terrible, what's happening? And we're like what's happening? She goes what do you mean? What's happening? Turn on the TV. Turn on the TV. That's the thing. Right, it's. Our natural thing is to turn to the TV to give us the updates, you know. Dan: And of course, they're amping it up. They're amping it up too. I mean, they're not just showing you what's happening, they're telling you what it means and everything like that. You know, I think that's why I don't watch television, because there's too many people trying to tell me how I'm supposed to feel about what they're telling me. That's a decision for me to make, how I'm going to feel about it. My mother was telling me that it was two days after Pearl Harbor that she found out about it. She lived in a farmhouse out in the country and they didn't have a phone. It was 1941. They didn't have a telephone and there were no newspapers or anything. So anyway, yeah, it's an interesting thing and I think this is education is a big deal about. Education is how you think about things and how you respond emotionally to your thoughts you know, and I think this has always been true. But I think now there are people who want to come right at you. It's like you're talking about. You know talking about horses. You know the beginning of our podcast. They're listening. What did Dean just say? Dean: Horses. Dan: Okay, here's five ads. Here's five ads for me. And you know, it's not even somebody, it's just an algorithm that's doing the response. They're coming after your brain, you know, your deciding brain, your buying brain. Dean: They're coming after your buying brain, yeah what's dean buying today? Dan: it's so funny. Dean: Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. Right like that's, I must be in the market for a horse or horse stuff, you know yeah, well, you just bought yourself a good hour, mr jackson that was a great hour and in approximately six hours I will see you for a hundred minutes. Dan: Yes, and then tomorrow for even more Two full days. Yes. Dean: I like it. Dan: All right. Dean: Okay, Dan, I will see you in a little bit. Dan: I'll be in Chicago. I'll be in Chicago next week, so we'll have a podcast next week. Dean: Okay, good, I like that. Dan: Yeah, okay. Dean: Okay, see you tonight. Dan: Bye, okay, bye.

In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we explore our travels through Nashville and Chicago, highlighting the growth of these cities and our celebration at the Maxwell Clinic. Back in Toronto, we discuss new bike lane legislation and upcoming events like the Genius Network in Phoenix and our local FreeZone gathering. Dan updates us on the progress with his stem cell treatments. Our conversation shifts to artificial intelligence and its transformative potential. We examine how AI is changing productivity, eliminating routine tasks, and sparking creativity. Inspired by Elon Musk's simulation theory, we dive into philosophical questions about reality, pondering whether our existence might be a sophisticated technological construct. We explore the rapid evolution of technology, tracing the journey from basic video games to immersive virtual realities. The discussion covers autonomous driving and other technological innovations that are seamlessly integrating into our lives. We introduce three key questions designed to improve decision-making and productivity – insights that could have been groundbreaking in previous eras. The episode concludes by celebrating teamwork and collective problem-solving. We draw inspiration from historical figures, highlighting how combining diverse skills can lead to remarkable achievements. Our exploration invites listeners to reconsider the boundaries of technology, creativity, and human potential. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS We begin by discussing our travels to Nashville and Chicago, highlighting the growth and dynamic energy in these cities, as well as our experiences at the Maxwell Clinic and various social events. Back in Toronto, we note the political stir caused by new bike lane legislation and share our excitement for upcoming events, such as the Genius Network in Phoenix and the FreeZone gathering in Toronto. Dan shares updates on his year-long journey with stem cell treatments, revealing promising results for his knee and Achilles tendons. We explore the transformative impact of AI on personal productivity, emphasizing its role in eliminating mundane tasks and enhancing creativity. The conversation delves into philosophical implications of AI and simulation theory, inspired by Elon Musk's ideas, and we ponder the possibility of our existence being a grand simulation. We discuss the limitations of virtual reality compared to the rich sensory experiences of the real world and consider the acceptance of life as it is, even as new technologies emerge. Three crucial questions are proposed to streamline decision-making and productivity, offering insights that could have revolutionized lives even in past centuries. We highlight the importance of teamwork in creativity and problem-solving, drawing lessons from historical figures and emphasizing the power of leveraging collective skills for success. The episode includes a reflection on the evolution of technological advances since the 1940s, and how new technologies are now seen as normal parts of life. Throughout the discussion, we maintain a focus on practical applications of technology and the significance of being content with life's current state while remaining open to beneficial innovations. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dean: Mr. Sullivan, Dan: Mr Jackson. Dean: Welcome back to Cloudlandia. Dan: All the windows repaired, the shingles put back on the top of the house. Dean: Yeah, we didn't. Luckily, no damage to the house, but lots of trees. We had some hundred-year-old oak trees that toppled up from the roof, didn't? Dan: make it, didn't make it, didn't make it, didn't make it. Dean: Didn't make, it Didn't make it. Dan: Well, they had too many leaves, they caught the wind. That's exactly right there. Dean: So you have been on a whirlwind tour, You've been all over huh, well, just basically Nashville. Dan: Where were we before? I'm just trying to think yeah, well, we were in Chicago, but we just came back from six days in Nashville, beautiful, beautiful it was, you know, high 70s, low 80s, but just beautiful. And this was four days at the Maxwell Clinic and then we stayed an extra day because David Hasse and Lindsay, his new wife, got. They were celebrating their marriage and we were there last night and there were. You know, richard Rossi was there. Lior Lior Weinstein. Dean: Jack Jacobs was there. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, jay Jacobs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, jay Jacobs. You know a whole number of people. Dean: Well, very nice. Dan: Yeah, right on the river. We were right on the Cumberland. You know it's very nice and they were doing a. When we left yesterday morning it was Marathon Day in Nashville, so we had to negotiate a different route to get to the airport and today they have a big regatta right down the river. All the boats were out yesterday practicing. Do they call them boats? I think they must call them boats. They are boats. Dean: Skulls, is that the racing thing that they do, you mean? Dan: Yeah, the racing. They're all skulls, Skulls yeah, yeah, small, medium and large. Dean: Oh, that's interesting. Dan: Yeah, but Nashville's growing. It seems like a boom town. Lots of cranes, lots of new projects going up. Nothing to compare with Toronto, but still a decent growth. Dean: Are you back in Toronto now? Dan: Yeah, got back yesterday and it's fall. Now it's fall. That's what my friend Glenn. Dean: I talked to him today. He said it was a little bit cool. Now it's like it's official yeah. Bright, orange tree, everything yeah. Dan: All the posing that the city was doing. No summer's not over, summer's, not over. All the posing has stopped, so it's you know, what you would expect close to November. And anyway it's good, yeah, yeah. And we're going through a big thing here because the premier of the province, rob Ford, has decided that bicycle lanes are not good for traffic and he's now passing legislation or he's going to put into place legislation that if a bike lane is causing traffic congestion, the bike lane has to go. And this, of course, is you know. This is the work of the devil as far as a lot of politically inclined people, but it's a disaster. They did a lot of it during COVID. Dean: There wasn't much traffic. Dan: They took advantage when they put in a ridiculous number of bike lanes, which you know in Toronto get to about six months a year because nobody rides their bicycle in January and February and anyway. But it's causing, you know, it's causing a wonderfully satisfying outrage on the part of people that I don't vote the same as they vote. Oh yeah. Dean: This is going to be a big month here. We've got coming into, so we've got the election coming up. We've got we'll be in Phoenix right after the election for Genius Network and then we'll see you there. We'll see you there and then I'll see you again. I'm going to be back in Toronto. We've got our FreeZone first week in December and then I'm actually going to do a Breakthrough Blueprint event in Toronto the week of US Thanksgiving in toronto monday, tuesday, wednesday prior to our prior to free zone. Dan: So, yeah, lots going on I might have made it, except I'll be in buenos aires that week yeah, what's your? Dean: this is that's my big uh goal here. You know, 12 years in and we've still. It's a dan sullless Breakthrough Blueprint event 12 years 12 years Dan we haven't sunk your battles. Dan: Well, a little bit, you know, a little bit of marketing in our direction would probably help. Dean: You're susceptible to marketing Right. Exactly I love it. Dan: Yeah, I'm a sucker for a compelling offer. Dean: Listen, I'm excited to hear your. I'm interested to hear because you're coming up on. It's been a year now. Dan: Right for your stem cell Started yeah, just the first week of November last year was the first stem cell injections. Dean: So one year you've gone four times. Dan: Yeah, it's pretty good. But what we've discovered is, you know, it's an old injury, it's a torn meniscus in 19, so you know, pushing 50 years and so the cartilage got worn down because of the torn meniscus and now the cartilage is back to what it was regrown. It looks to be like a quarter inch of great cartilage, but there was damage to the ligaments, because when you have an injury like that, your body rearranges itself to cut down on the pain. Your body rearranges itself to cut down on the pain. And now, so in last week of November, probably close to Thanksgiving Day, I'll get stem cell injections in my ligaments and we'll take it to the next level, you know, but I, yeah, I will get better. And you know I had two torn Achilles tendons within a couple of years of the knee injury, and so I got injections for those two injuries last March. And within five weeks I regained all my flexibility in my ankles. So that went really fast, yeah, and you can't, you don't really fix them. You know they're because they're a bit shorter because of the injury. When they put them back together again. But, what happened is. There's a lot of calcification that grows up over 40, 40 year period and all the calcification disappeared. It was kind of strange. They said it'll take about five weeks and week one nothing, week two nothing. Week three nothing, week four nothing. First day of the fifth week, all the calcification disappeared. Dean: Yeah, Wow, that's awesome. Dan: And I'm sitting here rotating my ankles very proudly, even though you can't see it. Dean: I can see it in my mind. Dan: Yeah, I'm doing it. Yeah, a lot of push off that I didn't have and everything, so I'm a great believer. Dean: Maybe you'll be able to talk to basketball now? Dan: No, well, it depends on how. I yeah, I mean, it's a function of where the rim is, it's not a function of where the ground is. Dean: Oh, that's so funny, that's easy. Dan: That's easy. You just have to know the person who controls the rim. Dean: Uh-huh. Dan: Yeah, yeah, but it's been great and you know I've been doing a lot of, you know, interesting articles. There's just so many articles these days on artificial intelligence and you know the hype period seems to have reached its dismal end and you know they're not seeing the returns. You know the big corporations who pile billions and billions of dollars, they're just not seeing the returns and their investors in the stock market are not very happy with big payouts investment but so little return. I mean you're talking people who put in $100, $200 billion and then they're getting that $3 billion return, which is okay if you own the company 100%, but it's not good if you're a public stock. So I'm watching that and, but meanwhile I'm convinced that it's doing a lot of good. You know, I'm convinced that individuals are well, individuals are just using that to eliminate five hours of work here, five hours of work there. Yeah, I think it's happening in a billion different places. But one of the things that I think is depriving us of good news here is that I think AI is not good news for the news media, because if there's any jobs that are going to get eliminated, it's going to be news media jobs. Dean: I wonder, like part of the thing is that there's got to be some interesting you know developments in terms of how people are going to integrate this, you know. Like I said, it's funny how people are doing the different prompts Lee Orson, our FreeZone. One somebody had said you know asking. I asked ChatGPT what do you know about me, based on our interactions, that I might not know about myself? And she said you know. Here are a few insights based on our conversation, she said. One you enjoy sharing knowledge and helping others. You've created content for various audiences, from real estate agents and home sellers to law firms. This suggests you find value in sharing insights and helping people achieve their goals, whether through practical tips or specialized guidance. Two you value practicality and efficiency. Many of your projects emphasize actionable, practical advice, like your guide on teeth whitening and your tips for home sellers. You seem to appreciate solutions that are both effective and efficient, providing value without unnecessary complexity. Three, you're strategic and forward thinking. No-transcript. Whether it's exploring new content, marketing strategies for cybersecurity or learning how to maximize our relationships Because I asked her how can I maximize our relationship? You're always seeking ways to improve. This suggests a growth mindset where you're interested in both personal and professional development, and it was really then she said you're health conscious and self-aware. You've taken significant steps in improving your health, from weight loss to setting fitness goals. This shows a commitment to your well-being and a good sense of self-awareness regarding the changes you'd like to make. Dan: I thought, man, this is really like that's good observations, you know yeah, but, dean, if you for a meal at a french restaurant, I could have told you all that it's true, right it's much more enjoyable, you know. Yes, for close for close ups from close observation. Yeah well, I've done the same with perplexity you know I put a little sizzle into it because you know I read all the great books at St John's College. That was my college education. And so I asked perplexity. 10 ways in which Dan Sullivan's philosophy is superior to Plato's philosophy in the 21st century. Dean: Came back. Dan: I mean he never had a chance. I mean what you can get from Dan Sullivan in the 20s. First of all, he's alive, which is an advantage yeah. But if you pick a historical character and say, how does Dean Jackson's thinking differ? Or expand on somebody else, you get more useful information. Dean: I mean yeah. Dan: So all they're doing is picking up, you know, introductions that people have made when you were giving a talk, or you were doing a podcast and they're just. All they're doing is collecting all that and putting it into a form. But did you let me ask you a question putting it into a form? But did you let me ask you a question Did you get any insights from this that were new, besides what a lot of people have told you over the last 25 years? Dean: Yeah, right, exactly. Yeah, I didn't get any because I asked none of that, like if you think it all makes sense, but it was, yeah, that I might not know about myself. So none of the I didn't think anything in here was something that I wouldn't know about myself. Right, but that's what I wonder. Dan: I mean if there had been sort of like a statement that, unbeknownst to you, a great uncle of yours, who you never met, actually set aside a savings account for you 50 years ago and right now there's roughly $1 billion in it for you. That would be really useful information. Dean: That would be delightful, that would be fantastic yeah. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Yeah, I love it. Dan: I love it. I love it, yeah, no, but what I think is that, first of all, I think the Greatest progress right now using AI and it's being done on an individual basis, it's not being done on an organizational basis, it's on an individual basis is getting rid of annoying activities, annoying use of time. I think it's eliminating friction. That's interfering with teamwork and everything like that. So I think you know we value the elimination of irritation. Dean: That's true. Dan: And so I think it's just being used. Dean: Yeah. Dan: I think it's just being used where you just you know, eliminate things Like I've been using just exploring with notebook google notebook lm and I. I don't find I would never use it in a public way. So just for the listeners. If you take, you say you're right. I took an introduction to a book and I fed it into this, you know, into this ai app and it came back as a conversation between two individuals man and woman. And they were talking about what they got out of. You know the introduction to the book and I came up about with about three or four things that they said in a different way, which we then built into the text as a result of listening to it. Dean: Yeah, isn't that amazing? Like that, that has really upped the level. Like that kind of blew my mind when I saw we've done two of those. We did Glenn put in episode one of the I Love Marketing podcast and it really did a summary, a 10-minute summary of what and they're talking about us in third person, like you know, joe and Dean talked about this and you know this was their insight that even before they were entrepreneurs, their childhood really set them up for being entrepreneurs and the whole thing thing right. It was really pretty fascinating. And then that we did, I did a zoom consultation with sheree, with joe's, joe's- girlfriend sheree ong. She's a for anybody listening. She's a little plastic surgeon in Scottsdale and very renowned in that field and so we did a whole marketing brainstorm around that and we set that into and to hear them talk about and reiterate the ideas. If you just listened to it without any context there would be no, you would have a very hard time believing that was not two humans talking. I think that was really my like. That was up a level from the interaction you know. Dan: Yeah, I found it got. It was great to start and it wasn't so good after about the halfway point. Dean: Right. Dan: Okay. What I found was it was a little too enthusiastic. Dean: Yeah. Dan: You know, and it became almost like jargon near the end. Dean: Right. Dan: And I think the thing was that they were just running out of things to say yeah, but it sounded like after a while it didn't sound entrepreneurial, it sounded sort of corporate. This is sort of a corporate PR, but that has nothing to do with my use for it, because I'm not going to use it in a public way. Right? Dean: I'm just using that. Dan: I'm just getting some reflection back on the ideas that we have in the introduction to the book coming back in a different spoke and I got some new ideas for refining what we did just out of listening. So for me that was the value a video and I didn't. Dean: I haven't watched the whole thing, but the general idea is that somebody put a video to these two, the male and the female character AI, and they're having a discussion as they realize that they're not real, apparently we're not even real. Apparently we're ai, they look genuinely like surprised by this news, a little bit incredulous that I, I apparently I'm not real well, it brings up the question that maybe Dean and Dan aren't either. You know Well what I was bringing to mind with that, Dan, is I remember hearing Elon Musk? I was just thinking. Dan: I was just thinking. I was just thinking no, that's exactly who I went to when I brought up that idea, who I went to when I brought up that idea. Dean: Right. I remember somebody at a big conference asked him about the simulation theory the theory that we're living in a simulation and you know he talked about it like that. He and his brother have had so many conversations about AI and the simulation theory, so many conversations about AI and the simulation theory, that they had to have a rule that they would have no such conversations while in a hot tub so that they could take a break from that conversation and his reasoning was that if you go back 50 years, we had the state of the art in gaming was Pong, which was the two you know twisty paddle things playing a ping pong game. That was the entry into the digital gaming in the 70s virtual, visually amazing games that are played by millions of people simultaneously in a universe that's fully photorealistic and and created, and his idea is that, if you factor in any amount of improvement at all, that we're going to reach a point where, in a couple of years, vr is going to be visually indistinguishable from reality. We'll have the capability to create virtual simulation, ancestral games that would be indistinguishable from real life. And if that's the case, if we look back in the billions of years of the universe kind of thing, the odds that we're the first ones to have gotten to that level is very unlikely. His whole thing is that the odds that we are in base reality he called it is one in billions and I thought man, that's very I don't know what that means. Dan: I don't know what that means. Dean: Meaning that this is the real thing, that this is the one he's saying, that the odds that we're in the actual physical world of the thing is very rare or unlike Wow. Dan: Are you saying that what we're experiencing is not real, that it's a simulation? I'm not quite getting this point. Dean: Yes, yeah, that's what he's saying. No, well, real that it's a simulation. I'm not quite getting this point. Yes, yeah, that's what he's saying. Dan: No well, yeah, but it's a theory. Dean: Right, exactly, you can do anything with a theory. Yes. Dan: First of all, there isn't enough electricity in our solar system to power that, I mean just to power it. Our solar system to power that I mean just to power it, and you know I mean. They're running into a problem right now, projecting technological growth to 2030. The United States does not have the electricity to do it. Okay, so there has to be, there has to be a bit of an improvement there. Dean: You know. Dan: The other thing is visual, visual perception and maybe audio to go along with. It is a small part of what we experience. I mean we have spatial awareness, we have touch, we have taste, we have smell, and then there's other ways of communicating that we don't quite understand, but we, energetically we. And one of the things that I really noticed with my few explorations of virtual reality is how flat and boring it is. It's just flat and boring, and the reason is because it's the creation of one person or the creation of a team where if you go to Yorkville or you go to Winter Haven, you know, and you walk around and you experience everything. It's the creation of hundreds of thousands of people who made the adjustment here, adjustment there and everything like that. But my sense is that there's a deep, what I would say depression setting into the entrepreneurial world right now, and the scientific world for that matter, that they're never going to understand human consciousness, and it's pretty well. There's been no advance in 40 years of understanding what human consciousness is, and it's not fast computing, you know just to say what the thesis is. It's something else. One of it it's not measurable, because what you're experiencing right now is truly unique. You've just created something. As you're engaging in this discussion with someone you find interesting, and you have all sorts of thoughts coming out. This is all. None of this is measurable and never will it be measurable, Right, Okay, and so I think that's the real issue. But what I'm saying I was thinking of a book title I was wandering around yesterday is that I'm 80 now, so I was born in 44 and there's just been a lot of technological. There's just been a lot of technological change since 1940, 1944. So I no longer consider it magical, I just consider it normal. When a new thing, like when the LM, you know the notebook, I no longer have the phrase this is fascinating, this is wonderful, I said, well, this is normal, this is just, I'm just seeing something. Yeah well, this is a new thing and it's really interesting and we'll see if it's useful, you know, in the normal way. In other words, does it make money for you, you know, does it save time? And so I'm getting more and more where I'm absolutely immune to other people's sense of magic about technology. Dean: Yeah yeah, I use you as an example. You basically have had functional use of all of these things without it even being technological advancements. I always talk about my Tesla. Now I've got the full self driving supervised, which is like it can make all the turns and do all the things. But you've got to really be aware I can't hop in the back seat and go wherever I want to go. But I always say to people listen, Dan Sullivan's had it right, because for 30 years you've had autonomous driving for 30 years. Dan: Well, autonomous from my standpoint. Yes, that's what I mean. Dean: You've had the functionality of it right. And that's been the thing. It's so funny yeah. Dan: Well, yeah, and the other thing is, I don't know it comes down to. I think you know what your stand is on technology has a lot to do with. Are you okay with life just the way it is? And I am, you know and I am. But the way life just is that every once in a while a new technology pops up that I find really useful and then it becomes part of my normal, then it becomes my normal life, and that's been happening for 80 years. And I suspect it's going to keep. I suspect it's going to keep going that way. But you know, but the it tells me. You know, know, one of the things I'm really interested in is just a little experiment I've been running now for about eight months and it has to do with three questions and I've been kind of captured by this. It's a tool. It's called three crucial questions, you know, and we've talked about it, and the first first one is there any way that I can help by doing nothing. Number two is if there is something, what's the least I have to do, that's that. And if it's the least I have to do, is there someone who can do the least that I have to do? And it really struck me that if I had learned this when I was like six years old, struck me that if I had learned this when I was like six years old, my life would have really gone in a different direction. It would have really turned out different because I would have been really super acute to what other people could do for me. You, know, right from the beginning. Dean: Well, none of that involves technology. Dan: None of that directly. I mean I'm saying that if I had done this 300 years ago and somebody had those three questions, they probably would have lived a really interesting, productive, creative life. Dean: Well, there's so much in it. There's like a I mean, there's certainly a who, not how element to it, for sure and the. There's a unique ability. Dan: There's a unique ability, yeah, but there's also a workaround. Dean: There's a can I pray while I'm smoking instead of? Dan: smoking while you're praying. Dean: You know it resonated with me with the. You know I've been working with the. Imagine if you applied yourself and self is the acronym for fear, meaning something that you know. But that would be essentially your question one is there any service or anybody that you know that could be able to do that? And then the second level is E for energy, which is that's the things that only I can do. L is leadership, where I could just tell somebody else, and F is finances. So can I apply myself to get this accomplished? I like this idea of what are you calling this? You called it the Dan Sullivan. Dan: No, it's just called three crucial questions because it's a little-. Dean: Three crucial questions Okay. Dan: Yeah, so you pick three things that are, you know, projects or problems right now. But, I just choose problem. That's something you haven't solved. Dean: Yeah. Dan: And then you ask you you know you describe each of the three. So you're coming downward on the left hand column. Then you go across and you got a matrix of three questions. And the first question is there any way you can solve this by doing nothing, and I've never had, I've never said yes to the question. But the question itself is very useful because it immediately simplifies your thinking. You know, it simplifies your thinking. And yeah, the second one what's the least you have to? do now you're getting really simple. And then the third question is there anyone else who can do this very simple thing? You know and, and then, and, if there is. You've just answered question number one. Dean: That's what I mean. That's the can I pray while I'm smoking? You've worked in the back door there. Dan: No, you can't without doing nothing, okay well what do I? Dean: need to do. Well, you got to do this and this. Well, can somebody else do that? Dan: Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, and then you also you're questioning well, is it even enough of a problem to even be, you know, spending? Dean: thinking about what if I don't solve this problem? Is it okay if I just forget about it? Dan: Yeah, and what it does is that it's a measurement tool in the sense of you know you're going to be doing something with your time today anyway, and the question is are these three things anything that's worth your time today? Dean: Yes. Dan: And it keeps you from getting you know, getting too taken up with busyness. Yes, I love that, but it's funny because I the reason I brought it up as a topic on our talk here. Since I came up with it, it's a, it's one of those thinking tools that won't let me alone. Let you go. Right you know I've had a few and so, for example, example, without going through and actually counting them up, I would say I probably did it 20 times during the day where I was thinking about something and uh, you know, and my mind had wandered. You know, I was thinking about something and I immediately the question came up is there anything you can do about that? Can you solve this without doing anything? And immediately I was redirected to an activity that was right in the present, that I could be taking and I could be conscious about it and everything like that. So it's really interesting because I come up with a lot of tools, but they're for a purpose, they're for a workshop. They're for everything, but this is the first one that keeps coming back and bothering me In your daily, for your daily life. Yeah, yeah, it seems to want to be part of my daily life and that's you know. And yeah, it's just an. It's just an interesting thing that I'm doing and it's very useful because the moment I ask the question, is there any way I can solve this? By doing nothing and immediately, my attention is a hundred percent just on what I can do right now, which feels real good, which feels real good you know to be fully engaged. Dean: Not doing anything is. Not doing anything at all is also an option, do I even? Need to do anything at all about this. What would happen if I didn't? Dan: I've had. Dean: Joe Polish and I were talking the other day. I did a Zoom session in the Genius Network event last week, thursday, friday, and you know one of the things that he was talking about was Keith Cunningham's idea that more businesses they suffer from indigestion than starvation for ideas. They're not starving for new ideas, they've got indigestion of ideas too many things. And I realized, as a 10 quick start with a future orientation, that is definitely my. I have so way more ideas than I could possibly implement. You know, and I look at I've always. One of my personal kind of orientations is definitely, you know, future oriented. I see things, how they can be solved. But I've also learned that the reality you know, you and I've talked about the fact that life moves at the speed of reality, which is 60 minutes per hour and when you're actually practically doing anything in the now. That's the constraint, that is the biggest thing for a future-oriented shapeshifter. You know, like you and I. So I've been revisited our the idea of procrastination, the joy of procrastination in. You know, my number one thing is always has been that I know I'm being successful when I can wake up every day and say what would I like to do today? And I've started thinking about how I can make that more practical, like to have more to show for it at the end of the day than just drifting with. You know, all my time freedom and the funny little exercise that I've been playing is do you remember in the original Wheel of Fortune when you won on Wheel of Fortune you would have you could spend all your money on the showcase kind of thing. They'd have all the prizes all lined up and you can. I'll take this for a thousand and I'll take this for 500 and I'll take the rest on a gift certificate or whatever. I started thinking about, maybe going through my days. Yesterday was the first day that I kind of, you know, I've been playing with that mindset of looking at today, as with my 100 minute units for the day, looking at the you know prize, the gallery of all the things that I could do and looking to fill them into my day. I'll take a massage for six units and I'll take this. I'll take a movie for 10 units and I'll do some 50 minute focus finders for 10 units. And you start like looking at my day and realizing that what kind of creates a little sense of urgency or a present mindedness for the day is really thinking about maximizing for the next 100 minutes, like what am I really going to do in the next 100 minutes? Because even a day is a long, that's a long time to really kind of. You know it's slow if you were to just sit here and count the time for the day that go by, but really having things. I'm really making a conscious effort to have more intention around what I do with those units during the day rather than just getting sucked into screen time. Dan: It's really interesting. You mentioned that you're a 10 quick start with future orientation and I was just thinking, as you said that and I was thinking about your that I think I'm I actually am past focused. I'm very past focused and what I'm doing is I'm looking at something that's from the past and sort of saying how could that be better in the future? Like I'm not really interested because I've experienced the past. I haven't experienced the future. So I've got one thing I've got a lot more experience with the past. Now we could just take two minutes out and just ponder the thought that I've just spoken here and I think it's probably why I am not taken at all by the futurologists that show up at the various conferences that I'm to and I said you're talking about something that you have zero experience about. And I said you're talking about something that you have zero experience about. I said why don't you talk about something that you have 100% experience? with which is your past and then say this thing that happened to me. How could that happen to me? Better when I get to it in the future, you know so. I'm not really intrigued by the future at all because, first of all, I've got zero experience In the past. I've got a lot of experience, and it's readily available. Not only that, but it's unique. Only I know what my experience is, Only you know, what your experience is. Dean: Who else knows? Dan: So, I wonder if we I wonder if I'm kind of quick start so I wonder if we actually really are spending time with the future. Though I don't know, I can only answer it for myself. Dean: I like, you know, creating blueprints or create you know, like that's the thing I see. I like solving problems, as this is what we need to do, but then actually implementing the things is. I find that being in the present is almost like being in the past. Funny, but I mean, sounds odd to say that, right, but it's like I think that I've already solved this. Okay, I know what this needs to be, and it just feels like such a drag that I have to now, like take the time to do the actual thing that I've already seen in my mind, you know, it's almost like you know, yeah, it's very funny. I heard somebody talked about who invented the vaccine, the polio vaccine Pasture, pasture, okay, so it was him. Somebody said that he imagined the reason, the way he solved it was he put himself in the position of if he was the, the virus or whatever, how would he attack the system? And that was his. So he put himself in that perspective of where would he go, what would he do? And it reminded me of hearing that Einstein, his, the way he came with the theory of relativity was to imagine himself on riding a beam of light. What would that look like? How would he experience that? And so I look at the things like when I create a solution for something, I know I already see how it's going to, I've addressed all the issues, I see, okay, this is what we need to do, and in my mind it's a fait accompli, as they say, a completed thing, it's done. I know that this is going to be the thing, but now you have to in reality, the speed of reality, actually build out all the components of it. You know, that's like writing a book, for instance, has to be done in real time, you know like I can see the outline of the well, well that you know that's really. Dan: you know that's really why you want to have a lot of who's in your life, because the actual taking action and getting it done is interesting to you. But, having that? Well, let me ask you the question Taking action and getting it done is not interesting to you, but having it done, does that interest you? Yes, very interesting. Yeah, well, there's only one solution it's got to be someone else who does. Dean: Yeah Well, there's only one solution it's got to be someone else who does it. No-transcript. That's been really in the last little while here. That self-awareness it's not a character thing. It's not that it's that I work best when I'm contributing discernment and invention on the if we're looking at widget things, you know. Dan: yeah, well, it's really interesting abs and I have gone to to Rome three or four times and one of the things I mean, if you are interested at all in you know the ancient structures. Well, not so much Rome, but I mean Renaissance and things like that realize is that these individuals who we you know, we know them, you know leonardo and michelangelo, and we know them and we developed this image. How could one person do all this? And the answer is they didn't. Right, right, right, they did. They had a lot of people. It's like you know, I mean, it's like we think of these. Just because we only know their name doesn't mean that they're the one who actually did it. Just yeah, it had to be named and we somebody attached their name to it and yeah, and we think it, but they didn't do uh you know they, they really didn't. I mean, they're sculptors. And you say, how could that? How could he get all that done? Well, he didn't. He got the basic picture of it done and then he had other people who were nose people and ear people and finger people. And he brought them all in and they put together the whole. They put together the whole statue and they put together the whole statue and that's one of the valuable things you learn about the past that things didn't get done any differently in the past than they get done today through teamwork, through large numbers of different skills coming together. The big thing is to apply it to yourself, because I think one of the things and it's a function of the school system and I don't know if you could have it any other way is that you have to study on your own, you have to take tests on your own. And I think it tells people that it's all an individual effort. But what if you took another group of first graders and you taught them teamwork from day one? You studied as a team, you took tests as a team and then you measured over 18 years the one who did everything on his own and the one who was just part of a team that did it. And they did it as a team. I bet the ones on the team. One is I think they'd be a lot happier, and number two is I just think they'd get a lot more done. Yeah isn't that something? Dean: I had a friend who you know is teaching his kids. His idea is teaching his kids like being entrepreneurs, teaching that's the way right, the self-guided way. But they would do, you know they were in a virtual school and they would set up, you know he would have vas to to do like homework for them, like show them how to, like hire someone to do this, this, write this paper yeah or whatever realizing that if there's anybody else who could do it. If you don't need to know how to do it, then you know, kind of like taking your approach right. Is there any way I could do this without doing anything? And that's kind of yeah, that's a big thing. There's no reason for him to know. I remember that was the, that was I think it was henry ford or somebody that they were saying. You know his lack of general knowledge, but it doesn't matter. He says I have buttons on my desk. I can push this button and somebody will get me the answer to whatever I need. And now we've all got a PhD in our pocket. Dan: Yeah, yeah, you know, I think the big thing is that I'm not certain that everybody has the ability of seeing the future and the future use, the future use of other people's capabilities. So I think that's an. I have it and I suspect you have it, but I can see what something looks like and I can see what someone does and I can see it applied to a future result. But I'm not sure everybody has that. Dean: Yeah. I agree, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree, and that's kind of like the thing we just think. It's so second nature, right, like you don't know that there's anything different. I remember thinking about unique ability. I remember thinking that, well, that can't't be like, because that doesn't seem like work at all, like that doesn't seem like any effort. Dan: That can't be a thing, but it is you know, yeah, well, it has to do with impact, not you know not the activity itself. Yes, what's the impact? Yeah and yeah, so it's really interesting. But I think, think you know, I'm just to you know, we're near the end of the hour here and my sense is that a lot of confusion in society right now is that science is running into a wall and technology is running into a wall, and it's human consciousness and a lot of claims are being made what technology could do, but I, I think with less and less confidence, and people are saying, well, you mean there's something else, there's something else that we can't get to, and I said, well, yeah, you experience mean, we experience that personally. We experience that on an individual basis, why wouldn't it be on a general sense? Dean: And. Dan: I think there's going to be a lot of depression. I'm noticing the increase in the numbers of teenagers who have mental illness, and I think the reason is that they've been promised something that if you got this education, if you had this technology, if you had access to this and this, you would be happy. And they aren't no exactly. And none of the people who told them that can explain to them why they're not happy, why they're not happy and I think it's a general sense. I just think we've reached a point where we've been so science centric and we've been so technological centric pretty much for a century or maybe a little bit more than a century. And it was going to produce the utopian society and it was going to produce and it isn't. Dean: And now. Dan: I think that the most cynical people were the most idealistic people. If you take someone who's really cynical, they're the ones who were very idealistic. They said you know, everything's going to be solved, everything's going to be great, and then it wasn't. And they don everything's going to be solved, everything's going to be great, and then it wasn't. And they don't have a fallback position. Dean: Yeah. Dan: I'm noticing that with the election this year. Dean: Yes, absolutely. Dan: You know, the people who are going to be happy on November 6th are the people who just lead ordinary lives. Dean: You know, they just go around. Dan: They got a job, they have a house, you a house and everything else. And the people who are going to be very unhappy are the people who believe we can fundamentally change everything. I've just noticed that one of the parties, which was the Party of Joy three months ago, is now the Party of Rage. Dean: Oh man. Dan: Yeah, they're the Party of rage. Oh man, yeah, yeah, they're the party of rage. I mean, they were all out on stage over the last two or three days of how you know, he's a fascist, he's hitler, you know. And I said look, I've watched some world war ii films, I've seen hitler. This isn't hitler, he doesn't even speak german. I mean, if you're going to speak German. Dean:I mean, if you're going to be Hitler. Dan: If you're going to be Hitler, you got to at least get the language down right. Dean: Speak German. That's crazy, but. Dan: I'm just noticing it's more than just the political season. I just think there's a thing happening right now where there's sort of a collision between what was promised and sort of what isn't happening, and that's why I think AI is really being used, but it's not being used in the way that people predicted it was going to be used. I think it's being used in many other ways. Dean: Yeah, well, when are you traveling to Phoenix, dan Wednesday? Dan: We're going to Phoenix, then we're going to Tucson. So we're going to be in Canyon Ranch and then we drive up the day before the genius starts. I think Okay. Dean: But we should go to the. Dan: Henry, we should go to the Henry I was thinking the same thing. Dean: That's what I was hoping. Dan: Okay, good so are we on for next? Dean: week then. Dan: Yeah. I'll be in Tucson. No, I can do it. No, that'd be great. Dean: Okay, perfect. Well then, I will talk to you next week. Thanks, Dan. Dan: Okay. Dean: Great.

In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, We glean valuable insights into writing methods by contrasting Stephen King's solo approach with James Patterson's collaborations. We explored the benefits of a second-person narrative and tailoring content for specific readers. We talked about an entrepreneur who built a candy empire by recognizing an opportunity and exemplifying the power of vision, focus, and innovative thinking. His story highlighted how early experiences shape goals and the importance of collaboration. Additionally, this discussion examined how US elections impact businesses and underscored innovation and marketing's crucial roles. Lastly, we covered strategic concepts like revenue per unconverted prospect and discussed books' significance in education. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS I explore the contrasting writing styles of Stephen King and James Patterson, focusing on King's solo approach and Patterson's collaborative method. I discuss the benefits of writing in the second person to create a more engaging and conversational tone for specific audiences, such as experienced entrepreneurs. I share the story of a young entrepreneur who successfully identified a market gap and built a low-sugar candy company, emphasizing the importance of single-minded focus and methodical growth. I delve into the significance of visionary goals and collaborative efforts in driving entrepreneurial success, using personal anecdotes and experiences as examples. I analyze the impact of US presidential elections on business sales, highlighting how different election outcomes can shape various business landscapes. I introduce the concept of revenue per unconverted prospect (rev pup) and its role in strategic business planning, particularly in understanding client gestation periods. I examine the financial dynamics of a signature program, discussing how a $15,000 fee per participant can generate significant revenue and emphasizing the importance of capital investment in lead generation. I highlight the role of books in attracting and educating prospects, particularly those published with Hay House, and their efficacy in creating qualified leads and fostering deeper understanding among participants. I discuss the benefits of a high-protein, low-carb keto diet and share personal plans, including a trip to the cottage and trying a new French establishment, Cafe Balloud. I reflect on the importance of focusing on one thing for entrepreneurial success, using the example of a young entrepreneur who built a low-sugar candy empire and the notion of always striving to go further in one's pursuits. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dean: Mr Sullivan, mr Jackson there he is Well. Yeah, I had a great week. Yeah, I'm very busy. We started a new book. The previous one went to the printer on Tuesday and we started the next book on Thursday, so this is the fastest that we've gotten to a new one. Oh, I like that Right into the next. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah don't know what stephen king, the author that's his habit of he writes for. You know he writes every day a certain amount of time and as soon as he finishes one of the end on one if it's halfway through a session he gets a new sheet of paper and starts the next one. He doesn't like sit on his laurels, he just gets right into the next one. It's very interesting. Dean: Yeah, I'm wondering because I don't really know much about him. Is he right strictly alone? Dan: and then, yes, you know, yeah, like, so it's a very interesting thing that he's like a rugged individualist, whereas you know, james patterson is definitely a who, not how, collaborator, you know, and prolific at it. He's got a really, really interesting process in that he does extensive outlines for his books and then he collaborates with someone to fill it in, to do the actual right, and then he gets with them and gives notes and so the book is a hundred percent. He's the author. I guess you can say, and then, but gives the, but gives the co-author the latitude to take it, exercise their creativity or whatever and how it goes. But he's got the basic. You know, he's created the outline and the story art Pretty extensive outlining process he has I took a I don't know whether you've ever seen and the story arc Pretty extensive outlining process he has I took a I don't know whether you've ever seen. There's a website called Master Class and they have, like the best in fields, doing a master class on their thing, and so James Patterson was one of the first. He did a thing on writing and yeah, it's very, it's very well done. Do you think they actually reveal what they actually do? Yeah, I think so. I mean it's from seeing the things. Yeah, he actually shows actual outlines, outlines, and you know, I imagine there's nothing you know. Sharing the process is very empowering for other authors, just like I think you don't keep one and has observed you, observed you doing it. I've got one right in my backpack right here, right now. I've got the everything is created backward book right here and I just think this format, it's so you know, it's, you're so consistent in the output of it, it's amazing. Dean: Yeah, I just wonder. There was a story of a martial arts master in. Asia, china, and he was known throughout the land as the greatest martial arts master. And then he had a student who was just prodigious he was a prodigy. And so he had a student who was just prodigious he was a prodigy. And so he taught him. And then the student went off and made a name for himself and then came back one day and he says as far as I can see, there's just you and me, he said to the master, and he said so why don't we settle it right now to see who's actually the master? Okay, and so they did it and the student had his master at a great disadvantage. And then the master pulled out a trick he had never seen before and defeated the student. And the student said I thought you taught me everything he says, except for one thing. Dan: Great, I love that, except for one thing. Dean: I love it, and I'm not saying that I have one thing, but I'm saying that there's something that happens in a creative process that involves a lot of other people. So I have Shannon Well, I do my outlines to be my version of James Patterson our fast filters, and so I do the fast filter, which is basically the structure of each section of the book the introduction, there's eight chapters and there's a conclusion, so 10 sections and each of them has a fast filter with a best and worst. And I do everything in the second person, personal, so I'm always talking to you you know, whoever the reader is, I'm always talking to. the reader allows me to do is to bypass, research being a too quick start. I'm not heavy on the research side, right, and what you're depending upon is the research that the reader has already done in his or her life. That this makes sense, and that's you know, that's the second. Dan: That's. That's a. That's a real secret. You know that. Like it, it's really. It's the best to read as well, because it feels like a conversation, feels like you're just talking to me and explaining something that is that you wouldn't have, as if you were just writing a letter to me about it. Dean: Well, you do that when you're talking. I mean you know, I mean, I think you you use the second yeah everything I do it's the same. Dan: I do the same every email that I write. All of that is that because that's the I think that's the most engaging right. Dean: Like people, it's easy to get engaged with that when it feels like it's just you and me, and so I'm just trying to think here of the, because I'm only talking to a certain kind of person, you know. Dan: I'm not writing for the world. Dean: I'm only talking to one, someone who's an entrepreneur with experience and with success, and so I'm simply reflecting in my talk what I already know about this person's life. Dan: I think that goes a long way, that one of the great, like you know, models of that is thinking about one person as if you're writing a letter to one person, or even a small workshop filled with whoever you're, you know, whoever filled with the right people and only speaking to those Something to that you know where you're not. You don't try and I think people often in marketing writing especially, they are trying to accommodate or change so that, just in case these people aren't this or that, they don't know about this. And I'm like you know what you gotta like avoid. You gotta let go of the bottom 20% and write as if you're only writing for the top 20%. You're writing to the people who want to do what it is that you're doing, not, you know, leaning on your back foot kind of thing. You're leaning into helping the people, the tippy top group. That really want what you have, and don't hold back on that, you know. Dean: Yeah. Yeah, it's really interesting. I made it. I think I mentioned this on a previous podcast, but I made a decision as I was approaching you know my current age. I said you know I've been Well, that's something everybody can do, you know approaching your current age. Anyway, I just made a decision I wasn't going to do any speeches anymore to big rooms. The only public presentations I would do would be to entrepreneurial audiences, but I would only do it in the form of a thinking tool. I wouldn't try to tell them how the world is or where I see the world going. I simply say I have a thinking tool for you. And what it relates to is you know something that happens to entrepreneurs and I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions about it and then I'm going to have you think through your answers and everything like that, and then I'll have you talk to each other, and then we'll come back and we'll just share insights. And that relieved me. I didn't like public speaking and the reason was that I knew I was only talking to about a small percentage of the room. Dan: And. Dean: I didn't know who they were. You don't know which ones, right? Yeah, I didn't know who in the audience, and then you're trying to make it appeal. Dan: Just even subconsciously, you're trying to make it appealing to everybody. Yeah, yeah, just uses a lot of energy and this is, you know what, this way, doing these, I would argue, you know, doing these 90-day books, quarterly books that you're doing is way more impactful than doing speeches to big crowds. Dean: This is really the big thing and I've sort of refined it about my decision about not giving talks to large groups. Talks to large groups when I'm in the office either the Toronto office or the Chicago office the coach will frequently say can you come in and talk to the group? And I'm always a bit puzzled. I don't know what to talk to them about. What I've done recently is that I have a big table in the cafes Toronto or Chicago and I say I'm going to have lunch and anybody who wants to come in and talk to me, you can come in and have lunch with me. So usually about eight people, and that works out really great because the only people who show up are the people who actually want to talk to me. Dan: Yeah, exactly that's great. Great, I like that. Yeah, that's my favorite. My preferred style, too, is just that is the here I am. Ask me anything, you know, that's the way I can show up the best for things you know. Dean: That's yeah, that's always been. Have you been that way all the time, or is it developed? Dan: I think it's always been my preference. I have the capability to do a prepared presentation. It's not my preference, but I just like being able to customize the message to whatever somebody wants to hear. You know, so a lot of time I don't do really I don't do prepared like keynote talks anymore. I much prefer like fireside chats kind of thing, where we'll do an interview and I can take it where. What I'd much rather do Q&A, because it can be directed in whatever they're specifically interested in and I can think quickly and articulate an answer. So they're not going to stump me. I know that much. So I prefer that and I think it feels to people there's a more, there's a different energy to it's an improv theater element to it right where it's flying without a net and you know you, there's always that danger that somebody is going to stump you or ruffle you or whatever, but they're not so that that confidence to be able to do it. And I've done enough thinking about my core ideas that I can adapt them with, you know, simplifying stories or examples that work, Of course, I think one of the things that's true about both of us. Dean: we've been out there long enough that people who really want to get in touch with us know how to do it. Dan: All right, exactly, yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking about that. I was thinking that on the way over, I'm in Orlando right now, I'm in the Tesla mobile podcast recording studio parked under an h80 tree today, and but I was on the drive over. I was thinking about that different. Just doing some assessment things on the different types of like if you're doing a wealth matrix or whatever, in terms of one of the things we do with our listing agent lifestyle things is this balance between daily joy, abundant time and financial peace, and I was thinking about the different kinds of advantages that people can have. I have complete time freedom. Basically, I have very little demands on my time in a recurring way, so I have self-direction on what you know you would call freedom of time. Dean: You know I would call that freedom of time. Exactly. I think the term that you're looking for, dean, is freedom of time, that's so funny. Dan: But the other thing is along with that time I was joking with somebody the other day. You know I'm in the middle of a project for myself here but I was saying to them that just jokingly, you know I've got access to Dean Jackson for free. And I look at that as one of my greatest assets access to me for free? Dean: Yeah. Dan: Anytime, anytime, that's exactly right. Dean: If he's in a good mood. Dan: If I can only wrangle him, you know, wrestle him down. Dean: If I can get his attention, if I can get his attention. Attention I can only get him to apply himself. Dan: That would be the thing right yeah we'd be on to something. But I think that the other thing is you know, you know, as far as vcr, you know, assets go, this, I've got so much, so many vision capabilities. You know like I, I know a lot of things that can be applied to a lot of things, and it's really the. You know the job. The struggle, let's say, is to direct that to one thing. You know, it's like the, it's like you. I remember we talked about offer briar one time that he you know, I was just. Dean: I was just as you said, that I was just thinking of him you know, exactly at that moment that you said his name. I was thinking about him, isn't that? Dan: funny that you, you know, I remember you telling the story of being with him and I've had the same conversations with him that his model, his technology, just for people listening. He's a brilliant guy. He's able to simplify learning and teaching models so he can really teach somebody how to learn anything and become a master at it in a very compressed amount of time and become a master at it in a very compressed amount of time, and his, you know, assertion is that he could do this for anything. It can be any skill that somebody wants to learn, and I think you were one of my favorite stories. You were at a dinner with him. Dean: I believe you were in Israel, right, tel Aviv, yeah. Dan: And said well, I'll let you tell the way you described it no, I just. Dean: it was a, you know, a very short comment. Dan: And I said. Dean: I said, you know, I think you really want to be known for this, for being able to teach anybody anything. But the problem is you can't focus on one thing. And you only become really well known if you can't focus on one thing, and you only become really well known if you can do one thing, really great. And you know, and he just laughed and he smiled, and you know he, he nodded and agreed, that was true and you know, and that's where I think it's very important to have guidance from outside of. You know what's the best thing for you to apply your talents to, your one talent, your greatest talent, what's? The best thing to do for that. And you know and what would you think with VCR? What would be the? Dan: Well, that's where I'd go. You know, is that this is? You know, even the marketing, you know is certainly the one. It's one thing, but there's so many applications of that you know, that's where I struggle, but what? Dean: would be? I guess I'm asking the question again what would be the best? I mean the, you know. I mean even in the strategic coach. I'm for entrepreneurs, you know the strategic coach is for entrepreneurs talented, successful, ambitious entrepreneurs. I say yeah, but not all of them. Not all of them. You can check off those three boxes. I'm for the ones who are really driven to collaborate with other entrepreneurs to create a new thing, that hasn't existed before. So, you know, and I think this gets more refined, Wouldn't you find? of who you would spend your time with 10 years ago that you wouldn't spend time with them today? Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right. Dan: I think there's, yeah, there is that. Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right. I think there's, yeah, there is that. I was it's so. I was, just as a sidebar, was listening to a podcast the how I built this podcast with Guy Raz and the the thing that one of the most recent guests was this young, the young lady. She's 26 or seven now. When she was 21, she started a company to make low sugar gummy bears and evolved that product line to other low sugar gelatinous treats and the company is called Smart Sweets and four years after building it, she sold 80% of it for $360 million, you know, as a 25 year old or 26 year old, in a four year period. And it's just, I mean, it's amazing, right, that one thing focus of doing that it unfortunately feels like it's the way is one thing. If your goal is building wealth, it feels like, I guess. Dean: Was that her intention to do that, or was that a stroke of I? Dan: think she wanted to. You know she wanted to create. She saw a gap in the market for low sugar candy right, that people like candy, but they're, you know it's so high in sugar and corn syrup and all the bad things, right. So she was looking for healthy alternatives and and there were really none. And so she figured, boy, if I could get, if I could figure this out, there'd be a, I think, a big market for it. Dean: And she was right. Dan: I mean she was definitely right and yeah, but went through. You know that whole process and you know, immediately kind of hit a third stride with it. But you look at, you know, the simplest businesses, you know, like that, imagine at some point beyond the idea and the execution of launching it that it's a different. It's a different game than the, it's a different game than the idea and the, the blueprints kind of thing, you know. And there's something that's I'm sort of resistant to or I find it hard to. You know, focus on just taking one thing all the way, kind of thing you know, that's been like. I look at. You know you look at, I see it among my. It's one of my most successful clients. You know that they're focused on one thing we crack the code on the marketing and create a multiplier for it that drives for the next three or four years and then they sell. Dean: You know it's a big yeah but single-minded focus for that period of time it's an interesting thing because that's a particular payoff for doing one thing. In other words, you know 300 million or whatever at 26, but you can also have a method that you constantly want to be growing and you know, the success is sort of a byproduct of the method. I would say that I have sort of a one thing, but it isn't a payoff or an event, it's actually it's a process you know, and but it's. I think part of it is just always be creating new things and then, to give evidence that they're actually new things, have it in the form that other people can use them, like thinking this is one you know or workshops you know, or quarterly books and and everything else. But but I I like yeah that's true. Dan: Yeah, like I look at that, that you're in a lot of ways, you know, I look at this as your Jiro dreams of sushi kind of you know experience of pursuing mastery of collaborative thinking tools for ambitious entrepreneurs at the highest level. You know, with a trillion dollar free zone, you know economy as the, you know, at 100 years old, that's a very, you know, that's a very ambitious north star right that that's the direction that everything is heading and it gives you enough, there's enough, uh, variety in the constant creation of new things. And I think there's something elegant about this quarterly book cadence supported by quarterly workshops and that model with new tools and a organizational support for, in the wake of what you're creating, that you're always on the lead. You're always on the lead ship in the armada, car-charging the course and heading to the $15 trillion future right and bringing on the free zone people on the lead ship and everything behind an armada of other coaches and the signature program, the 10 times program, all kind of headed in that same direction. Dean: Yeah, I would say that it really stems from an experience I had. I think it was about 10 years old and I've mentioned this that I was out walking in the fields of the farm that I grew up on. It was in February, you know, very clear, bright day, cold but very bright and sunny. I think it was still 54. The airliners were still mostly propeller. I think this was a DC-6. It struck me that it had four engines. It was either flying from Cleveland to Chicago or flying from New York to. We were in the flight path of those type of destinations and I was watching and all of a sudden I just got this feeling. It was a question that came to me and it's saying I wonder how far I can go, and that's kind of framed it for the last 70 years. I wonder how far I can go, and that's kind of framed it for the last 70 years. I wonder how far I can go. I've done this Now I wonder, and whenever I hit one level of measurable achievement, measurable success, then the question always comes to me Now I wonder how far I can go. So I think that's my one thing, I think that's my. One thing is just that it's a question, it's not an answer, it's actually a question now I wonder how far I can go and that requires, you know, being in good health, being, you know, having energy and that requires having, as you say. I've got a lot of organization that gets formed out of the creativity because it becomes doable by other people, like having coaches do the workshops. And you know, I meet clients now who have been in coach for 25 years and it's the first time I've ever met them, but they've been working with the other coaches for 25 years and that's kind of proof that you're doing something useful. You know, it sort of indicates to me that this stuff is real. Somebody who would maybe be attracted to coach because of a book they read, or they saw a podcast or something, but they do it through another coach. They're never actually in my workshops, they're in somebody else's workshops. And when I meet them, I'm always very pleased that there's enough substance and enough impact to the stuff that's being created that they don't have to be with me. Dan: I think that's right, that you've got enough like yeah, I mean you, a strategy circle and an impact filter are going to work, no matter who explains them. Right, when they explain them and they go through the process, it's like it doesn't require any. You know, there's not any creativity required in the telling of that, it's really self, it's built into the tool and any anybody can share that. Yeah, that's the. But you know you've got kind of that framework. I look at that as the. You know, in my world, that framework of the eight profit activators, the breaks and blueprint, is a is one thing. I look at that as one thing. Right, the but the application of it. You know there's this different, I guess, in teaching the application of it, helping people apply it to their own businesses. Dean: How many would you, how many would you say, have taken at least the it's first three days right, it's a three-day introduction. Dan: Yeah, the three-day. Dean: Three-day. How many, would you say, have taken it now. So I would say that probably. Dan: well, let's say 10 times, maybe 600, I'd say Do people do it again? I'd say Do people do it? Dean: again yeah. Dan: I've had people who've come many times Because it's one of those things where you never step in the same river twice or you never play the same golf course twice. It's the same round of golf even if you play the same course. The eight profit activators are the thing and it's just literally layering on. There's always constant improvement and new nuances within each of the eight profit actors. So if people are working on their before unit or their during unit or their after unit, there's all these layers of you know building on top of it, and once they've had an experience of it, you know now that you've actually applied something and something's going that unlocks, kind of the next thing you know, you get to see, okay, now, what could we do? Kind of thing. You know, and it's really, it's very interesting. Like my, one of the things that I've been really leaning into is one of the biggest frustrations I have. I'll explain something that's a real thing going on here. Real thing going on here is that in the before unit, which is the first four profit activators, and they're all about identifying your ideal client, compelling them to raise their hand, to start a conversation, educating and motivating them so that they know that working with you or doing whatever it is that you do, would be the right thing. And then making a compelling offer that makes it easy for people to get started and we get people to think about that before unit as a separate entity from their during unit, which is the unit of the business that does the thing that you do. So let's say the strategic coach workshop process, like once somebody is in strategic coach, that would be the during unit of it, right? So the before to act as a supplier to the during, and what they're supplying is new registrations for strategic coach workshops, new workshop enrollees, and the way that we try and do it is set up like a prospect vending machine as opposed to a slot machine. Most people do slot machine marketing where they put money in and they pull the lever and come on seven hoping that something will happen. And a vending machine is very predictable. Right, you're doing a vending machine. You have to select, even though there might be a dozen things in a vending machine. You have to select even though there might be, you know, a dozen things in the vending machine. You have to select what's in a1 and press a1 and it tells you what the price is and you put that money in. But you push the button and out comes your whatever it is that you asked for and so we try and line that up for people and the most predictable, the way to really do that as a vending machine is to think about the investment in the before unit as a capital investment versus an expense-based approach. Where most people are running expense-based approach, they want to run the ads, get somebody to come online and then buy right away, before the credit card is due at the end of the month to pay for the ads. Right, that's what everybody's looking for. But I look at it that if you take a capital investment approach of generating your ideal prospects and taking a bundle of 100 of those and then not measuring your ROI until 100 weeks from now, your ROI until a hundred weeks from now is the what's the ROI on marching that bundle of 100 leads that you made a capital investment of 500, a thousand $2,000 in. What's the ROI over 100 weeks versus the next hundred hours? You know which is what most people are focused on, and so I, where I run into challenges with people, is getting through what I call the Van Allen belt, where it's you load up your a hundred, or you know however many you load up a hundred leads that you've generated, however many you load up a hundred leads that you've generated and then the Van Allen belt is getting them through that period where you haven't done a transaction yet and it feels like you're spending money and you're, you know, keep loading passengers on the rocket kind of thing, and but nobody has, nobody has bought yet, and that getting people to stick with that through the Van Allen belt and then get the ROI is a big obstacle and I see it happen again and again. It's one of those things, literally people stopping three feet from gold. Dean: I really grasp what you're saying. I was just thinking how do you conceptualize that for the people who are actually involved in the activity? Dan: Well, that's the way I'm describing it now. Dean: I mean, if we put together marketing and strategic coach with sales and Strategic Coach, I would say we have it's a quarter of the country, a quarter of the company you know, easily 30, easily 30, 30 individuals and and and what they create is really educated, enthusiastic, first workshop participants. Basically that's what they create and it's interesting. This year we'll do 1,000. Like, we'll have 1,000. Dan: New registrations. Dean: You mean, yeah, new registrations, and then the price went up this year, so there's more. I mean, we were about 980 last year and we'll be slightly over a thousand. And one thing I've noticed is there's a fall off in sales in presidential years. Oh, yeah. When the US is having a presidential election and the toughest period is about the three months before the election. Dan: The reason is that yeah, right the election. Dean: The reason is that, yeah, right now. The reason is it makes a difference. It's not necessarily who wins the election, but you kind of know how to adjust your you know, you kind of adjust your journey once you know, who's going to be the president. You know, and this year there's very definitely a difference. You know, I would say it's the greatest philosophical difference. I've probably seen in my entire lifetime. Dan: I have a perfect example. I have a client who is an immigration attorney and they're, you know, right now talk about. There couldn't be a greater polarity of possibility in. November that they're. You know they're right on the thing of ready to pivot that if one side gets in it's all about immigration and getting legal. If the other side gets in it's all about staying here, deportation defense. You know it's a different. It's amazing how that kind of thing can have a polar difference. Dean: Yeah, and I just noticed that. I mean, I've been through, we're in our 35th years, so there's been eight presidential elections over that, and I just noticed there's a holding back. That happens usually summer to the, unless it's pretty well clear that an incumbent president is going to get reelected. You know, and that's happened a number of times. Anyway but that. But the interesting thing about it is that I think it was Peter Drucker said there's only two things, there's only two areas of profit in a company. One of them is innovation and the other one is marketing. Dan: Right. Dean: Everything else is an expense. Yes, but I don't think that's true. I think everything should be looked at as a capital investment, right, like I? Dan: look at one of the things that we help people look at. I don't know that I've ever shared this with you, but I think it would be a very interesting metric for you to have just an awareness of, for, even for strategic coach, that one of the greatest comforts for people is knowing what their I call it their revenue per unconverted prospect. A rev pup we refer to it as, and that's a number that, if you take of all of the new people that came into strategic coach in the last 12 months, you're saying that's going to be a thousand for this year and the amount of revenue that generates divided by the number of unconverted prospects that you've identified through your market. So imagine that there are. Everybody kind of comes through a process of somehow getting in your world. They've opted in for something or they've asked for something or signed up to come to a workshop or the Zoom workshop or an intro, or they were referred, all of that thing. I'm sure there's a pool of people who you have communication with that have not yet decided to join the program. But all of the people that did join the program came from that group and most people don't have a sense of the gestation period of people being in your world, right, because sometimes people come into your world, they have one conversation, they learn all about it and say I'm in. That's a great outcome, but the majority of people will have a exploration period, you know, where they're kind of learning about and observing and getting immersed in the environment. And so that number you know, let's say that the a thousand people and let's say would you say that a blended average of fees would be 15,000. Would that be there between signature yeah and yeah I mean new people coming can only join signature, yeah. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Yeah, so what was how much is the signature program? Now it's, I think it's 15. Ok, so 15,000. So you know, 15 million dollars in new revenue from the before you, which would be. Dean: Well, it's more than that, because the uh, that's 15,000. No, it would be. Yeah, it would be, let's just say 15,000. Yeah, cause new people coming in have to start at signature level, right, so yeah, I mean, it's more than that for us, because 80% of that is in the U? S and everything gets translated back, so so just for around numbers. Yeah, but let's say 17. Dan: So 17,000, that's $17 million on 1,000 new people. And so we take that 17 million and divide it by the number of prospects in your email database that you're emailing your newsletter to, emailing your things to. So let's say that's 100,000 people. Dean: It wouldn't be that high 50,000? 50,000, yeah. Dan: So you take that 17 million and divide it by 50,000. Yeah, take that 17 million and divide it by 50,000. And whatever that number is, you're rev-pup. And so let me just do the math real quick on that. So, 17 million divided by 40,000, that's $340 per prospect per year is where you get a little more granular. And looking at this is looking back and seeing what was the ad date of them. When did they first come in? Because some of them may have been in for 30 days and some of them may have been in for 30 months or you know whatever, or three years or more. And that gives you a good sense of what your annual. So you look at that and, on terms of capital investment, if you can add people into, you know if you make a capital investment that generates new leads for let's even say $34, you've got an immediate 10, you know return on that. Very interesting when you start looking at it like that. You know. Dean: Yeah, I mean the, the, and first of all it's it's an accurate number because all the money's up front with us, so you know that we have that money before they do their first workshop, do their first workshop and the interesting thing about it is the difference that the three books have made. Dan: You know, the big books the Hay House books and you know, I was very interested in. Dean: Ben Hardy's offer. You know that he would write the books because I just don't have the stamina to spend. It's basically at minimum it's a 12 month process with the publisher. I mean Hay House moves a bit more quickly than other publishers do. I mean you can start there. They're looking basically like 12 months. They'd like to turn a book around in 12 months and the books have done wonders for us in creating qualified leads. It's not the case that people read a book and they sign up for the program, it's that they make a phone call and the other thing is people may not have read the book and read the books, because usually they read all three and they come through a referral and they phone and then we send them the books and they read the books. Ok, so the books are useful either way. And one of the things that I wasn't sure of it because we never had this capability before. But you know, I would say, since the three books have come up one way or another, you know it's a large number of people who signed up for the program because of the books. In other words, that it was, that it was sort of, um, it was the biggest sense of proof that this was the right thing for them. Dan: Yeah, I mean the book itself. In that way, when you're putting out like a book, that's being, you have the reach of amazon and other bookstores and people kind of. There's an interesting environment for people to discover a book organically right and people talk about it and all of that stuff. So you're not really. It's not that you're having to push the book out to people. There's a they're kind of drawn to it, right, and amazon has a great engine of you know if you like that. Dean: You probably like this yeah, they're a great capability, yeah yeah, anyway like there was a new workshop, not this past week but the week before, and they had about 35, there were about 35 new people and I just laid the word out for them that if anybody wanted to come in and talk to me at lunchtime they could. Okay, and immediately the table was filled, you know the table was filled as soon as lunch break. And the thing that I was struck this was their very first workshop. How much they knew about the program. I was very struck by this. And they were asking me questions about the concepts and the tools that in many cases they won't get to for three years. They were asking me because they were mentioned in the three books, the tools mentioned in three books, and so that's been a big. So that's been a big, that's been a big gem, very exciting, right. Dan: Like I mean, it's kind of I love to hear when things like that happen, you know. But that a book is a very is a really great profit activator three tool educate and motivate. And that's really it that you're getting mind minutes of attention. And that's the crown jewel if you can get somebody's mind and attention focused on taking in a new thought that resonates with them, that they say, oh, that makes, that makes sense. That's the thing. So then when you make an offer to join the program, it makes all the sense in the world, right. Dean: Yeah, we're just starting consultation with Hay House right now on the book that we wrote with Jeff Madoff Casting, not Hiring. Yeah, we think that may be the number four. The number four book. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, we think that may be the number four. The number four book. Dan: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I think that's great. I mean, that's very exciting. I haven't seen Jeff in a while. Dean: Well, he's been busy with his play. He came back yesterday from London because he's been auditioning this whole week and they're going to go for an early 2025 start of his play in London. Oh, very nice. Dan: Wow In the West End. Dean: In the West. End, is equal to Broadway. Dan: Right From a theater standpoint. Dean: I said it's taking off. Oh yeah. Well, you knowago was a big deal chicago's. You know. They had a 10-week run in chicago and they got great reviews. It's just that chicago is a bit in a funk as a city that there's so much negative things happening and people don't want to be downtown after dark right that puts a crimp into theater. Yeah, yeah so we'll see next week, because the democrats are having their convention and, uh, the pro-palestinian people have said they're going to tear the city apart if they have to oh my goodness, oh my goodness, yeah, wow, they need good jobs. They need good jobs yeah. Dan: Well, it's less than a quarter and it'll be over. I can't believe. It's almost. You know we're more than halfway through August right now. It's almost here. Dean: It'll be here, and then the next campaign starts. Dan: Yeah, that's exactly the impeachment campaign That'll start whenever, whoever. No, it's not the impeachment. Dean: But even the presidential cycle is never about. Dan: Oh, yeah, yeah. Dean: Like I mean, the moment they the one ends, they start the next one, you know anyway. But yeah, but yeah. I think I think the what happened to the Democrats I think they're not going to have the ground troops to support this because they were there was so much uncertainty with Biden that I think and I mean she's only attractive right now because she's not doing press conferences and she hasn't had, she hasn't had a debate. I don't think she she'll stand up to full public. You know, full public right, I'm sure I don't think I don't think she has the experience and I don't think she's the type of person who stands up well to that sort of thing. So anyway, that's my guess. That's my guess, and if I'm ron, I'll still have a really good entrepreneurial day the next day. Even the day of that's right and I go to bed at 8 o'clock, so it doesn't matter. Dan: Oh, my goodness, Is that true now 8 o'clock yeah? Dean: No by 9. Dan: No. Dean: Certainly I'm in bed by 9. I'm certainly in bed by 9. Wow, and I get up early, I'm a morning person. Dan: Yeah, yeah, well, it's working, it's all working. Dean: Yeah, yeah, it's very good. I got a lot out of your description of that and there's a lot of protein in what you're talking about there. Right, that's the thing. Not carbs, no carbs. All meat, all protein. Yeah, that's the thing. Not carbs, no carbs, all meat All protein, keto marketing. Dan: That's exactly right. So you are on your way up to the cottage for the last hurrah for the season. Yeah. Dean: Wednesday, so it'll probably be two weeks, very nice. Dan: And then I'll see you. I'll be back pretty soon, in September, less than a month. We'll lock in Table 10. Maybe we can do Cafe Balloud as a new place, as a new Our new French establishment for lunch. It'll be awesome, okay, all right, dan, I'll talk to you soon. Dean: You too, okay, bye.

In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, I reminisce about our wonderful experience at the recent Cloudlandia conference at Canyon Ranch in Tucson facilitated by the legendary Joe Polish. We discuss the importance of maintaining an active lifestyle through routines like DEXA scans. Our conversation explores cultivating daily habits that balance productivity and creativity without overcommitting. Wrapping up, we tackle the nuances of time management as entrepreneurs and commitment levels' impact on execution. Discover how dependability and prudent social media actions shape future opportunities, drawing from Kevin O'Leary's wisdom. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS Dan and I delve into the significance of the series' theme song and its role in their listening routine, based on Chris's reflections. We discuss Chris's trip to Tucson and their perspective on the moderated conference experience led by Joe Polish at Canyon Ranch. We highlight the importance of maintaining consistency and improvement over time, drawing upon the eight profit activators as an example. Dan analyzes a typical day at Canyon Ranch through Chris's recount, emphasizing the value of health checks like the DEXA scan for body composition. We explore the paradox of having ample free time yet facing a lack of productivity due to multiple options. Dan and I discuss the various levels of commitment and how they influence the ability to complete tasks, especially in the entrepreneurial environment. The chapter on trust, money, and social media is explored, examining the challenges of relying on unpredictable and the personal ethos of dependability. We assess the intertwined nature of trust, money, and social media, referencing Kevin O'Leary's perspective on the potential long-term impacts of public actions. reflect on Chris's strategy for managing time and commitments, including his rule against traveling for marketing purposes. The episode concludes with us having a candid conversation about procrastination, commitment, and the challenge of executing tasks without external scaffolding. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dan: Welcome to Cloudlandia. You know, the theme song to this series might be the song that I've listened to more in my life than any other song. Dean: Oh, that's funny I like it. Dan: I was going through the archives and I said you know, I don't think I've listened to any song as much as I have this song. That's so funny. Yeah, I love it Good music though. It's good music. Dean: And good message. Dan: And it, I love it, it's good music, though. Dean: It's good music, yes, and good message. Dan: And it's good message. Dean: It's always a reminder. So welcome back. You've been on the road, arizona. Dan: Yes, how was that? Oh, it was great. We were in Tucson for about five days at Canyon Ranch, and the weather was absolutely superb. In Fahrenheit terms it was roughly about 75. Dean: Yeah, perfect right. Dan: Clear, cool nights, blue skies, no rain and the genius was great. Joe is really in the sweet spot. Joe Polish is really in the sweet spot because he's controlling it now with his interviews and I think that's terrific, because he had six different guests and if they're just giving a presentation, it can be from bad to really great. But what Joe provides, he just does a framework and of course he directs them with questions and he knows the audience, he knows the speakers, so he's doing a great job of moderating and I think that's a terrific move. Dean: I like the new setup too that he's got there, the stage with the kind of environment that's good, nice, the kind of environment that's good, Nice. Dan: Well, let's Proves that, if you just stick with some things long enough, you know it turns really superb after a while if you keep making improvements. Dean: Wow, I can't say enough about that being true. I was really. I've been thinking that about the. I've been going back looking at the eight profit activators as the example of how long you know I would say I've been working on this for 30 years, unconsciously, and the last 20 of it consciously and the distinctions, the reliable, that I've generated from all the ways that we've applied, all the number of data sets and iterations and different applications that are still like, it's just kind of great. It's a shortcut to really identifying what needs to be done, and every new iteration of a durable playbook is adding new distinctions. So much certainty in the things. I just can't wait to see, you know, the next 20 years of that real like dedicated application, because it's not going anywhere, you know. Dan: Yeah, I think you know I'm sort of a stick with things for a long time. Dean: Yes, yes. Dan: And I mean, if people are telling you they're getting value out of it, their checks indicate yes, yes, things going in a workshop and I'm, you know, I'm always seeing new things and and everything like that. But you know, we were. I was just reflecting that this is 35 years for the program, the workshop program, and it's pretty much not too different in 2024 than it was in 1989. I mean 2024 than it was in 1989. I mean it's basically you're doing thinking processes, you're chatting with each other individually, you're having general discussions, there's visuals to represent what's going to happen and all the money's up front. Dean: Yeah, I mean, listen, I call those things durable contexts and what you've got there, like the strategic coach program and the workshops, it's not unsimilar to what 60 Minutes has going for it, the. It's been the same context in sunday night 7 pm tick, tick, tick three long form stories on the most fascinating things in the zeitgeist right now. That's never going to get old. That's really. You know, it's like the same thing. You look at quarterly meetings gathered with your peers thinking about your thinking in a group of people who are thinking the same way. So I think that's the cheat code is understanding what those durable contexts are and allowing the content to fit within that. You know. Dan: Yeah, there was a great old parody, I don't know 20 years ago, and it's the new marketing manager for Coors Beer and he's saying yeah, and he's in a meeting with Mr Coors the current Mr. Coors and he says yeah. He said yeah, we've done a lot of research and you know we feel that the color that we've been using for the labels of Coors beer are not up to speed with what people really like and therefore we're suggesting that we switch the color of the labels. And Mr Coors says I like the color we've got. He says yes sir, yes sir, Mr Coors. Dean: Yes, sir, we're going to go with the color. Dan: And he says we feel that you know the typeface that we're using, the Coors typeface, is from the. It's really from the 19th century. And he said so we're suggesting this new typeface. And Mr Gores says I like the typeface the way it is. Dean: He says yes, mr Gores. Dan: And then he says we're thinking that the bottle is very in old shape, you know, and it's not really up to date with modern design and therefore we're recommending this new shape of the bottle and we want to change the color of the bottle too. And he says to Mr Kors says I like the old bottle and I like the color we've got. Yes, mr Kors, okay, we're all set to go on our new campaign right, that sounds like your conversation when they wanted to change the fonts right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like Helvetica. We're going to stick with. Dean: Helvetica Awesome, I love it. Well, Dan, what was your? What's a day in the life in Canyon Ranch? You've been going there now for as long as I've known you. Dan: Yeah, 1990 was our first trip, so this is our 55th visit and many years. We've gone twice, twice. Well, it's a nice place, it's very congenial, it's very comfortable and it's well kept up. And, you know, the food is good. They have terrific massage therapists. I mean, they have dozens and dozens of massage therapists, some of them, one of them we have we've been seeing her for 25 years, you know, and there's just a nice quality. It's very predictable, there's no tension, it's very laid back, and so I get up in the morning and, you know, once we're set to go, I'll go out for a walk, and they have a two mile loop around the property oh wow and one of them is quite a challenging hill, okay. So what I could do is I go out and I start working the hill from top to bottom and I do that. I do that for about a half hour. You know. Dean: Up and down, you know gets the heart rate up yeah and now with my repaired knee I was gonna ask do you feel? Dan: the difference. Yeah, yeah, it's. Uh, there's a bit tenderness about especially coming down it's going up is fine, it's coming down. That puts more stress on your knee right and then then we go for breakfast and there's two choices they have sort of a very informal cafe and then they have a restaurant with full menu. And then I do a lot of reading. I read the Wall Street Journal on six days of the week and Babs and I just agree when we're going to rendezvous for lunch. Dean: She does a lot more. Dan: She does a lot more consultations. She does more investigating new things, which eventually I introduced to some of them. But she's much more active. She gets more tests than I do and I do one test probably every year for 20 years since the body composition. Oh, yeah, like a DEXA scan, right, right, dexa scan, yeah, and it's the gold standard as far as I can tell. You know, and then you compare and I got 20 years of records and you know, need some more care. Things are okay here and you know you go there and then the afternoon I'll have at least one massage a day and I do that. But I do a lot of reading. I've got my detective stories, my thrillers, my international geopolitical thrillers, and you know I'll wander around around and I get my steps in, I get my three rings on my apple watch bin and we meet for dinner. We usually do it pretty early and we you know and come home and I'll check the news, internet news and read some articles and then I'm off to bed and multiply that by five days. Dean: Do it again. Dan: Yeah, and you feel revived. Dean: Yeah. Dan: But I, you know, I mean at after 35, 50 years of coaching and 35 years of the company and the program. I don't really get that stressed out for my work. Right, I mean you know I'm in my unique ability. I have certain things to do every day. Dean: There's deadlines. Dan: There's always lots of projects going, and so it's not like to go on to free days, which Canyon Ranch always. Isn't that much of a change for me from? The way I operate on my workday. I'm never doing more than three projects for the day. I have lots of time between projects. I only hold myself accountable for getting three things done a day. My scheduler, Becca, always makes sure I have at least a half hour between anything that involves a meeting with someone else. And yeah, so that's pretty well that I mean. But I get a lot done. I mean I'm more productive at 80 than I was at 60. Dean: So yeah, that's my thing. How much of your time during the week like when you're on a typical home week, work week is scheduled like synchronous and scheduled with other people, versus you saying these are the three things I'm going to work on, or are they always involving other people? Dan: No, I have days when it's just me getting my part of a project done that has to be then sent off to somebody else. But I have days when there's no meetings. The vast majority of them are Zoom meetings, not in-person meetings. Dean: And I have a regular schedule the workshops are in the schedule. Dan: The two-hour catch-up calls that we've introduced for Zoom they're in the schedule. I have podcasts they're scheduled. The only thing that's left up to me is creating new tools. Dean: Right. Dan: You know, and the other thing is new chapters of the current book and that goes off, and then we have recording sessions and so on. But I would say that if I look ahead at a year, 85% of that year is going to be totally known on the first day of the year. Dean: Really, yeah, yeah, like with scheduled slots for when it's happening, yeah. Dan: Very interesting. Yeah, and I've introduced a new rule in 79, that I will never travel for marketing purposes. Dean: Right, exactly. Dan: Yeah, and I will never give a speech. I'll do an interview, but I won't do a speech. Dean: Right or. Dan: I'll put an audience through a thinking tool, but I won't give a speech, so my days of speechifying are in the past, right, right, right. And I won't give any speech for publicity purposes, I only give a speech for marketing purpose. I mean, I'll only do a public, you know, presentation and a movie tool only for marketing purpose. I'll only speak to audiences that are qualified clients, qualified prospects. Yeah, yeah, and that's basically an easygoing tourist's life. Dean: Yeah, exactly, I forgot, that's another thing. Dan: You have a birthday in about three days, right? Dean: That's right. May 10th that's exactly right may 10th. Dan: It's yes, right yeah, so that's what is that friday? Dean: that is friday, yeah, yeah. So that's that one little thing, that one week of time where I'm only 21 years younger than you. I catch up on you for a little bit and then you take over again. Dan: Yeah, I have to give you a teaser before I frustrate you. Dean: Okay, let's hear it. Dan: Yeah, no, it's 20. Dean: You get to be 21 years younger. I got you Right, right, right. Dan: Then it gets taken away from you. Yes, exactly, just when. Dean: I think I'm catching up. Yeah, yeah, a little boost. That's so funny. Yeah, I've forgotten that we're both Taurus. That's something we are very similar. I think that's why we have such an easy friendship. I think because we're essentially a lot alike, I mean our whole being. Dan: I think we're essentially lazy luxury-loving innovators. Dean: Lazy luxury-loving innovators, I like it. Dan: That's pretty true. Dean: It's the truth. You're absolutely right. Yes, yes, yes, in the best sense of all of those words. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think both of us exhibit sort of a lifestyle that's different from what we learned when we were growing up. Dean: That's true, yeah, I don't know what instilled it in us, but it was self-discovered. Really, Nobody taught us this. Dan: And we both like shortcuts. Dean: We both have a passion. Dan: It's very interesting I haven't actually driven a car in the city of Toronto in easily 25 years. Dean: I think that's amazing yeah. Dan: And you know I have a limousine company that handles all my scheduled stuff. And then Babs. You know we're very much in sync in terms of what we like to do for entertainment and for socializing we're very much in sync, and what it's allowed me to do is to really notice shortcuts in the city because I'll see. You know, I'm a real map addict. I like maps. And I'll see something I said. I wonder, if you go through this alleyway here and you come out here, whether it's a shortcut when there's busy times and I got about 20, 25 of them in the city that Google doesn't know about. Dean: Oh boy, okay, yeah, you've got the knowledge. Dan: Yeah, I got. I've got the knowledge. Google stays within the framework of what are considered official streets. You know they it doesn't, and probably they have to do that. I mean, that's not, it's not their job to be doing it and and so one of the limousine drivers said, you know, he went to the president of the company, the owner, and he says, you know, we should have mr sullivan up here, he knows more shortcuts than anyone I've ever seen and and the owner of the company. Why would we want the trip to be any shorter? Dean: Unbelievable, huh. Dan: Isn't that? Dean: funny, that's the best. Why would we want it to be any shorter? Dan: No, and I can see his point of view, I guess. Dean: but wow, I can't tell you, dan, how much I'm looking forward to being in Toronto. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Really am. Dan: Now you're coming in. When are you coming in? Dean: On a. Dan: Monday. Dean: The workshop's on a Monday the workshop is on Monday, right the 20th, so I think I'm going to come in probably the week before. I'll probably come in. I may come in at the very latest the 17th, and so I would be available for a table 10 or whatever table they assign us on the 18th, if that works in your schedule, and then I'm going to do a breakthrough blueprint on the 27th, 28th, 29th. So I'm going to stay for at least two weeks. Dan: Are you staying at the Hazleton I? Dean: believe so. Yes, there are the four seasons. Dan: one of the two yeah, because our wonderful French restaurant in Yorkville is gone. Dean: I know exactly. Dan: Jacques Bistro. You know, they basically packed it in at the end of the previous year, so the COVID year started in March 2020. So right at the end of 2019, they packed it in and their son you know, their son and daughter were. I was leaving this was right at the end of the 2019, I was there and I was going down the steps and he said Mr Sullivan, do you mind if I have your picture taken and we're putting together sort of, you know, a panorama of all the longtime guests? And I said sure, and then they they always closed down for the month of January, july too, yeah, yeah, in January, and they never came back. After January it was closed, and so I don't think they were sensing anything, but I think they had just more or less packed it in without telling anybody Because it's all gone. Now it's some other business. It was a very small restaurant, I know because it's all gone now and it's some other business. Dean: You know it's. It was a very small restaurant. Dan: You know I mean they may do, for they may do for almost 40 years with about at most they might've had 40 seats in the restaurant. That wasn't a very big restaurant Right. But let's Select is good, let's Select they sold. The two partners sold. They had been with it for 40 years and they sold and it's. You know the menu is smaller. There's some things not on the menu that I liked, but you know it's great. Dean: Have you been to? There's the new French restaurant in Yorkville, off of you know where, if you go Bel Air basically that where Bel Air meets Yorkville if you continue across Yorkville in that little alleyway, there's a new French restaurant. I think. Yeah, they didn't last. No, they didn't Okay. No, cause they came in just before. Dan: COVID right, yeah, they didn't last. Oh, they didn't Okay. No, because they came in just before COVID right? No, they didn't last at all. Okay, yeah, and I'm just trying to think. Dean: Sophia Is there another? Sophia is another one. I think it's new, but I haven't experienced it. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Yeah, you know, there were a lot of casualties from the, you know. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Actually, Yorkville has gotten a lot less interesting because restaurants have gone out and retail stores have come in oh interesting. It doesn't have the same entertainment value that it did. Dean: Interesting, I may have to rethink Where's the new? Where would be a suitable place for a guy? Dan: like me, the Hazleton is really good. I mean, they're one restaurant there is really good, but you know I would go for Le Select, just for old time's sake. Dean: Of course, yeah, yeah. Dan: And we'll put it in the menu. I have a whole bunch of medical things. Usually on Saturday I go to my biofeedback program. Dean: I go to osteo-stron and I get my hair cut. Okay. Dan: But I can leave off the two medical things that day and just get my haircut. Dean: Okay, fair enough. Dan: And we'll, yeah, put it in for 1130. Would that be good? That's fantastic. Dean: I love it. Dan: Yeah, yeah, it's not table 10 anymore, but we can get the same table, yeah, and that's where we. Dean: That's where we, that's where we launched the podcast series the joy of procrastination was launched right there. Dan: Yeah, what are you thinking about procrastination now, after all these? Dean: years. I think it's amazing. I mean, I think this whole idea of the you know as a superpower, I think it's absolutely true. What I still I'll tell you what I'm personally working on right now is my ability to do what I say I'm going to do. At the time, I say I'm going to do it without any external scaffolding, and I'm realizing that. You know, I'm just now eight weeks into the health program that I'm doing with Jay and Team Dean all together there, and what I've found is that's working really well because it's created the external scaffolding and support and exoskeleton that allows me to stay on track, or create that bobsled run, as Ned Halliwell would say. And so now my attention in May here now is turning to myself. I have, Dan, an abundance of time. I have, all of you know, a consulting client that I talk to on Tuesdays at one. I have a my real estate accelerator group on Wednesdays at three, and then on alternate Thursdays, I have my co-agent call and my email mastery call, and so, all told, it's four to six hours a week of synchronous and scheduled requirement. Right, Then I basically have 100% of all of my time available, and I do. I've always sort of you know having free time leads to having the ability to be creative and do things, but what I find is I often end up in a paralysis of opportunity. you know of that I could do this I could do this, I could do this, I could all of those intentions. You know that I could do this, I could do this, I could do this, I could all of those intentions you know. But I very rarely get anything done. Fits and spurts right, and so that's what I'm really kind of. I'm really trying to figure out the formula for me on that. Dan: That's why I was curious about you know, you know, I would say this that I, if I didn't have obligations, or commitments. Let's say commitments, yeah, like I have, I have commitments. I wouldn't be very productive just on my own Right. I mean, I won't do something just because I want to do something. To see it, it has to involve my team and it has to involve my clients, otherwise I won't do it Right. And so I always have deadlines related to those two parties, and I really like deadlines. I really like deadlines because, you know, and usually I get it done just before it's needed. And the reason I like that is if I just have enough time to actually and I don't have any more time, I just have enough time to get something done, then I'm totally focused. If I've got more than enough time to get something done, then I'm totally focused. If I've got more than enough time to get something done, then I can be distracted by something else Me too. Dean: I realized I started thinking about a progression of the way things are going to get done. Most certainly is synchronous and scheduled is 100% certainty that it's going to get done. Then kernis and unscheduled is also getting done, like that's what other my consulting clients or the people that I work with we don't have necessarily every tuesday at one o'clock or whatever it may hey, are you available to talk? You know, on this day and we put it in the calendar and but it's not like recurring, that, it's not locked in obligation. I usually keep my calendar. You know I schedule those things about two weeks out. And then the next level up then. So that's synchronous and sort of unscheduled, but we'll do it. Then the next thing is asynchronous with a deadline, is likely to get done, but the thing where I want to be is asynchronous at my discretion and that's the most joyful thing, but nothing ever gets done. Dan: That's the reality, right? Yeah, it's really funny. I was having a conversation about it was with someone at Genius Network. You don't know them and they were talking about how they're really into Zen. Know them, and they were talking about how they're really into zen okay, and and you know the oriental, you know that you detach from, you know physical reality, more or less yes, and, and I said, you know I've read things about them. You know I've read things, but reading things about zen isn't them right you know, it's not them. You know, and and said the one thing I've noticed about people who are really deeply into Zen they're not real go-getters. Dean: Interesting yeah. Dan: Yeah, because for them, the things of the world, they're not really real. Dean: You know they're sort of delusional. Dan: And anyway, and I said, I have a really enjoyable engagement with the world. Yes, and it's entrepreneurial, so that makes it more enjoyable. I have nothing in my life that involves dealing with people who are in bureaucratic, private sector, bureaucratic or public sector. I have no nothing to do with anyone like that, and so everyone I mean my entire environment. I'm hearing an enormous amount of sound. Dean: Sorry about that. Dan: What I notice is that I live in almost like a complete entrepreneurial universe. I mean both business-wise and also socially you know, so I don't really know much about what's happening outside of the entrepreneurial world. I mean, I read it. I mean I read it on the internet, but it doesn't really impact on me. You know, I mean taxes do, inflation does and everything like that, but not in a serious way. And the exchange rate between the US dollar and the Canadian dollar is very comfortable right now. Dean: It's about $1.37. Dan: Okay, yeah, I always enjoy that. Dean: It's a nice offset. Dan: Yeah, people say, why do you live in Toronto with the taxes so high? And I says, well, it all depends on where your money is coming from. Dean: Right right, right right, and you know the patents are. Dan: We're up to 19 now. We have 19 patents so far. And that has its own asset value. And yeah, so it's really nice right now At 80, it's really at age 80. So it's really nice right now at 80, it's really at age 80. It's really nice. Dean: Yeah, is that so? I am curious, though, if so, the deadlines. If we think about that progression right Of synchronous and scheduled, synchronous unscheduled with a deadline and asynchronous at your discretion, where's your power zone? Are you able to spend time productively in asynchronous at your discretion, or does what drives your thing be the deadline? Dan: No, I let other people schedule my life. I let other people schedule my life. Okay, yeah so all the dates in the calendar are someone else's schedule and then they have their schedule for me to get the material in, because it always involves some sort of teamwork. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Before a workshop, you have to get the new artwork in according to the production team's schedule, not my schedule. Right and I have some really good rules with that. If it's 80%, good we're going to go with it, even though. I got a better idea at the last moment. I never load them up with last minute requests because from the audience's standpoint it's 100%. It's only our judgment that is 80%, right, exactly. Dean: They don't know. It's 100% of what they got. That's exactly right. Dan: Yeah, I don't know that there was something better that could have been done. They don't know that, so I'm pretty easy with them. Every once in a while there's a last-minute thing and because I never bother them very much, they're up to it. But if it was a steady diet that they had of the last minute, then you'd lose their ability to respond at the last moment. So I never take advantage of that, except there is some situations where you know it's a good idea to do it. Dean: Yeah, that's exactly right. How much of your time is spent brainstorming and sketching and thinking, like, working out an idea for a thinking tool or the content for a book? Because I imagine that's kind of where it all begins. Right, you're coming to the table, yeah, with the idea this is the book I'm to write, and how much of it is you, uh, I'm really curious about, like because I've discovered you know, my power verbs as part of our discussion through the joy of procrastination. But what would be? Do you have time like that where you're? Do you have a notebook that you use, or do you sketch, or do you know? Dan: I'm pretty much um. I'm pretty much a fast filter person, so yes, uh I get the idea and then I go through and I say this is the best result, worst result, and here's the five success criteria. Dean: And by the time I finish. Dan: By the time I finish, the first fast filter I'm launched and then it's right into the introduction, the chapter one, chapter two, chapter three, you know. So yeah but I was talking to a new member of genius network. A great family actually, a father and two sons all joined and it's called the pompa method and it's, you know, getting rid of all the metals in your body and everything. You're living with mold and everything else and so much of sickness comes from heavy metals in your bloodstream and it comes from very, very serious negative impacts of having mold in your house and I think you would be more in danger of that than we would here in toronto. I think florida's can be sort of damp, you know things. I would say that uncared for physical things in Florida deteriorate pretty fast, don't they? Dean: Yes. Dan: And anyway, and he didn't really know me at all, like there was no prior knowledge, when we met and I started talking and he says you know, I'm doing everything well, but not writing books. And he says I have some sort of block to the book. And I said do you have a book in mind? And he says, yeah, I've got notes and notes. And I said you know, the easiest solution to writing your one big book is not do that. What you want to do is write 100 books. Dean: Right. Dan: Yes, right, yes, book. And he says, well, how do I think about that? And I says, well, do you have a good chapter already? If you were going, to write a good chapter in your you know. You know it's a good idea, it's one chapter, it's one idea. Could you write a book on one idea. And he said yeah, but I've got so much more to say. I said I know you got we all do. I said we all got a lot more to say, but we don't have to say everything right now. We can say one thing right now and I showed him one of my books and he said, oh my God, oh my God, but it's so short. And I said yeah, and you can read it in an hour. Dean: I said it's big type too. Dan: It's 14 point type and it's Helvetica, very easy to read. And it's got lots of subheads. You could get the meaning of the book if you just read the subheads. If you didn't read all the text. Just read the subheads and the titles. You could get the meaning of the book, or you could read the cartoons or you could listen to the audible or you could watch the videos, know everything else. And it was like he, it was like a religious conversion. And he says, oh my god, I've got so much things that could become small books. And I said, yeah, the ebook. Research indicates that if your book is less than 60 pages, you'll'll get 85% complete readership out of it. Dean: Mine are 44. Dan: I only have 44 pages in a book and so, going back to your question, I don't have to do much brainstorming because I've done the same format over now. We're just completing number 38. Dean: Yes. Dan: I totally know One of the big problems of writing a book for the first time. Well, how long is it going to be? Dean: and what are the? Dan: chapters going to be. I know it's got an introduction, it's got eight chapters and it's got a conclusion, and then it's got a little section on the program in Strategic Coach. And then it's got a little section on the program in Strategic. Dean: Coach. Dan: So that's why I like repeating good formats, because you're not doing all this guessing. What's it going to look like? I know, I mean, I know what it's going to look like, I know how long it's going to be, I know what the pages are going to look like I know that. So that forces people to procrastinate and stop and everything else, and I've removed all that execution complexity right up front. And then I've got nine other people who are responsible for the finished product Right right yeah, and. I've got deadlines for them. Dean: The deadlines. Dan: You know they're already in the schedule. Basically it's a two-month project to get the book finished and all my deadline dates are in the schedule. They're just presented to me. These are the deadlines I said okay. I'm cool. So see, I'm being managed by other people's schedules and that takes a lot of the uncertainty on my part out of the way. Dean: Yeah, you know, what's funny is I've been thinking about my, because I'm very reliable in synchronous and scheduled things Meeting deadlines and meeting deadlines. Yeah, I'm never, you're never late, you're never unprepared. That's exactly right. That's why synchronous and scheduled for sure I would say you're never unprepared chat at somebody's event or as a guest on somebody's podcast, where I don't have to prepare what I'm going to talk about. I do it in the thing and that's why having the format that I've chosen for my More Cheese, less Whiskers podcast is the guest, is the focus, and I've been preparing for this conversation with them for 30 years and I bring all of that with it. I don't have to think about it ahead of time. So synchronous and scheduled, 100% gets done and it's right in my go zone. What I have been thinking about is if there were a way to think about signing myself to. Have you ever heard the term an FSO contract? It's in the entertainment business. People will contract with a entertainer's company for services of Dan Sullivan. So it'd be entering into a contract with strategic coach FSO Dan Sullivan and that would be a really interesting thing. If I had a way of thinking about myself, detached from myself, as a thing that I could tap into for services of Dean Jackson, it would be an interesting you know, I'm just applying it to myself. Dan: I don't trust the guy to show up Right, exactly, that's the thing He'll be on the way and he'll see something interesting. And then, yeah, you know you have to track him down. It's too much work, you know but I'm like you I'm very reliable as it comes to you know, you know commitments to other people. I'm very reliable. So I said and it's not work for me to do that. So you know, I just never, ever want to disappoint you know, I just never ever. Yeah, and but when I'm just dealing with myself, well it's, it's really loosey goosey, you know. Dean: Right. Dan: Yeah, He'll find some excuse, you know, you know he's very slippery. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Yeah, the neighbor's dog ate the homework. You know, you know, he's very slippery. Yeah, yeah, the neighbor's dog ate the homework you know, everything like that. Yeah, and I I put myself in the gap when I'm doing that, but what I've done is, over the years I've made things I'm really intensely interested in public offerings, in other words, I'm presenting it to an audience and I just things that I'm really intensely interested in. I've connected now with making money. Dean: Right. Dan: And you know, the making of money really makes things official. Dean: Yes, yeah, so yeah, very, I mean it's taken a long time. Dan: I mean, I'm not saying this, was you know, but more and more as I've gotten lazier. Dean: Right. Dan: Anything that I'm actually interested in doing better make money. Right right right, isn't that funny. Dean: That's still the motivator, even though as time goes on 1600s, early 1700s. Dan: He said the making of money is probably the most innocent thing that humans can engage themselves, involve themselves with. He said making money it's really clean, you know it's sort of a really clean activity and there's an exchange and you feel a real sense of accomplishment and achievement. You know, there's just something about something where it has to be good for both sides. It's got a much higher energy impact to it. Dean: It's good for me, it's good for them, and it's not just double the pleasure, it's 10 times the pleasure yeah, and I mean, you know the nice thing about it is that to do it sustainably, there has to be a durable exchange of value. You know it has to be. Yeah, that's what's so? That's what I mean. That's what's so clean about it. Right Is everybody wins yeah. I love that. That's what I love about marketing, you know, is that it's just such a great. I feel really great about being a connector in businesses who can really add value to people and getting the message out to the people who can need that value as much as possible. Dan: And you know the thing is, it's actually the creation of something new, that didn't exist and then, once the exchange has been happened, it exists something new has been created and you know, and it's a, it's kind of proof that you're real. Yes, right, right it's a, it's kind of proof that you're real. Yes, right, right, you know, I mean you have people involved in various you know involvement of psychiatric treatment and you know they said, well, I don't know if the world is real, I don't know if I'm real, and I said well, if you're only asking your opinion, it's going to be hard to pin down. Dean: Yeah, right on. Dan: You have to get some proof from someone who's not you that you know that what you do is valuable. Dean: Yeah, yeah, that's what the that's the true, that's the great thing about capitalism, you know is that it's? Voluntary. It's voluntary, right yeah? Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was watching. You know the Shark Tank guy. He's Canadian, kevin O'Leary. Yeah, yeah, I was seeing him and he was saying he was just telling the protesters on the campus that it's being noted in the job market who these people are and they don't realize the price that they're paying and they have masks. And he said, doesn't matter, we're picking up your eyeballs. He said that every single person who was involved in the january 6th you know the- yes they. Within about two months, they knew who every individual was and where he was, because the technology is now so good. And he said. They're being used at the university campuses by the police and everybody else and every one of you who's upsetting campus life and is doing that, it's noted that you were doing this and if your resume tries to present you're a different person from who you are in the student protest, doors just will be closed to you. You will never get any direct message that you were in the protest, but you'll notice over the 10 years after you go to college and go out in the marketplace that you don't have much opportunity and it's a really good talk. Because he says you think there's no cost to this. There's a big cost to this talk. Because he says you think there's no cost to this, there's a big cost to this. And he says you think you're inflicting the cost on someone else. I have to tell you, over 10 years the cost will be inflicted on you. And I just thought it was a neat little talk. Dean: Yeah, he's a pretty smart guy, I mean just like as a philosopher, you know. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah and anyway, but I found it interesting that you know this rears up every once in a while. It's a bit like a fever, you know that. But this is very well planned. All these students have been in training for the before they actually show up as a protest. They've been in training by, you know, by activists. You know trainers and the activists who train them are never there. They train them and then you know they're off camera and you know they're tracking down the money sources. These people are being paid, you know. I mean they're actually being paid to do this and everything like that you know and everything like that. But it's an interesting thing how it's harder and harder to do things in secret these days. Dean: I was just thinking that, like back in, you know the fifties and sixties, seventies, eighties, even. You know everything now is is on, everything is on camera. You have to assume that you're every move. Dan: Yeah, they're probably you know, communicating with other people on social media. You know they're yeah they're not just doing this in quiet, for right five, six, five, six days in a row, I mean they what got them out, you know, into the movement was probably social media. Hey, we're going to do this and nothing else. And you should come to a meeting and we're going to do this. And you know, I think late teens and early 20s people don't think too much about that, you know, they don't really think that it shows up. But we're, you know, in our company, we really do extensive social media searches when we have a job, you know, a job applicant. Dean: Oh, you do, oh yeah, deep dive. Dan: Yeah, yeah, deep dive. We had one woman and she came in and you know where our cafe is in the. Toronto office. And she came in and she was sitting out in the, you know, in the reception area and something about her just caught my attention. And then she came in and she was just perfectly done up, you know, I mean her clothes were great. Dean: And. Dan: I watched her as she went through the cafe back to Babs' office and I said she's just too perfect. I said there's something wrong here. And afterwards she left and they were saying, boy, what a resume. She has a resume and everything else. I said there's something too perfect about her. I said I get the sense that something's off about her. So they went searching and they found out that she had a whole separate life as a burlesque dancer. Oh really, wow, that didn't show up. That didn't show up. And she even had a you know like a brand name for who she was in her other work. She had a completely you know and she was in clubs and they're sort of not public clubs and everything like that and not that there's anything wrong with being a burlesque dancer If that's your, you know. I mean, I mean it's not really my, you know my favorite form of entertainment. But you know, but the fact is that she hid the other part of her life, and that's the sense that I got. There's something too perfect about her. There's another side of her that's not being seen, so it will be discovered. If you have another life besides the one that you're presenting, it will be, discovered. Yeah, there's no hiding now, right yeah, and the simple way is just be who you are. Dean: Ah, that's exactly right, that digital split. Yeah, and the simple way is just be who you are. Ah, that's exactly right, that digital split. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, and the people that we really have long-term relationships with invariably are people who just do they. There's not another them. Right, yes exactly Right, right, right yeah. So anyway, did you learn anything about the way I approach things? Dean: I did. I mean, I think that's you know your organizing context. Like you know, I've been thinking about it in this terms of imagine, if you applied yourself, you know, and this is the applied portion of things and it sounds like your, the fast filter is the gateway into the applied world, right it's? yeah that's that starts. That makes it real because you're making it up and then you're making it real with a fast filter, yeah. And then that, when presented to your project manager or one of your project managers, you know you use the term, you know I mean executive function. Dan: You know you're lacking in executive function. I don't think that's true. I think, from a creative standpoint, you retain a lot of total executive function. I think what I've completely delegated to other people is management function. Dean: Yeah right. Dan: It's not executive function, it's executive execution function. I've got the starting execution, but then there's got to be a handoff. Starting execution. But then there's got to be a handoff and after the making it up stage then I have to hand it off to other people. Dean: I used to try to do the management function and I'm just no good at it. Yeah, and you know you're. The thing about the quarterly book is a. You know that's a viable construct. You know that's a durable context, that you're 38 quarters into a hundred quarter adventure, you know yeah, yeah, and that you know. So there's that sort of rhythm, contextual rhythm, that sticks with it. Dan: Yeah, yeah, that sticks with it. Dean: Yeah, yeah. Dan: It's kind of a future time commitment. You know, like I'm not, I'm 40% through a 25-year project, so that means I've got, you know, I've got 2039, that I hit At the end of 2039, I hit quarter number 100, you know yeah right, and you know, and that gives me an incentive to make sure you're there. Yeah, right, exactly. Oh, that's so funny. Whatever it's going to take, make sure you're there, because you know it won't do if it's just 95. Dean: Right, yeah, no, that's exactly right. I love it. Well, I found this very it sounded very interesting. I appreciate it and I'm very excited about table 10 reunion. Yes, so I'll set that up on the 15th or whatever. Dan: Yeah, you know what I'll do is. I'll say to the Maitre D just for today, can this be table 10? Dean: Yes exactly. Dan: It's only table 10 when Dean and Dan are there, that's exactly right. Dean: I know exactly where the table is, no matter what we call it, it's still there. I mean it's still there, I'm going to put it in Dan at 1130 on the 15th Perfect Table 10. Table 10. Dan at 11.30 on the 15th Perfect Table 10. Table 10. I like that. Dan: All right. Dean: Okay, thank you, so much Are we on next week Yep. We'll be back from Nashville Perfect. Dan: Yeah, we get back on Saturday, so this is great. Dean: Perfect. Dan: Well. Dean: I'm sorry I'm going to miss the big birthday bash, but I'm sure it'll be wonderful and we'll have exciting things to talk about next week. Yeah. Dan: Yeah, good. Dean: Thanks Dan. Dan: Okay, bye.

In today's episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, I share insights from my experience at the Cloudland Summit. We discuss the carefully constructed approach to selecting impactful speakers and crafting their messages. Dan and I explore deeper implications of habits. From influencing personal growth to organizational culture and nations. Recent tech and political events show how biases stem from ingrained habits. We cover self-tracking progress through a daily habit-scoring system and cooking's role in health, wealth, and innovation. Overall, it's a thought-provoking look at intentional living and leveraging the mundane for extraordinary results. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS We discuss the Cloudland Summit and how major tech breakthroughs often come from the convergence of three pre-existing technologies. I share insights from my upcoming book "Everything is Created Backward," suggesting that innovation stems from remixing the past. We explore Perplexity, an AI tool that aids in research by suggesting further inquiries and providing references. We analyze the creation of iTunes as an example of innovation by combining existing elements in novel ways. I introduce the 'Top 50 Tool' I've devised to identify and refine daily habits that shape our lives and future selves. We examine the role of present habits in shaping our future selves and the effectiveness of setting goals for personal growth. We touch on the biases of Google's chatbot and the financial repercussions of such biases on a company's valuation. We discuss the number 51's significance in politics and business and the importance of counting fundamentals. We talk about the transformative power of cooking habits on health and wallets, and the broader implications on personal and national success. We tease the introduction of a new tool designed to track and score daily progress, highlighting the importance of consistent habits. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dean: Mr Sullivan, yes, it's Welcome to cloudland at time. Dan: Amen. I heard it's being recorded, so that's half the job right there. Dean: Yeah, and it's never going to let you down. Dan: That's right, Well, yeah what a what a whirlwind week. It was so good to see you and babs and everybody. Dean: We were shooting for one meal and we were shooting for one meal and that kind of ended up as five. Dan: Yes, what what can happen. Oh, that's, yeah. Nothing wrong with that. I like it. They were all playful. Dean: Yeah. Yeah, it was really interesting because I spent probably a day preparing for the Friso summit for our listeners. We just had our annual being the top level of strategic coach and and we have this every year it's it's a meeting Squeezed in between two drinking parties. Oh man, that's funny. Yeah, the meeting is so you can recover for the first from the first drinking parties so that you're ready to go for the second one. Dan: And I'll tell you what. I sold that to those pokeballs short, that was those are delicious. Dean: Yeah, I always find that alcohol is the almost failproof Of 10 times multiplier. There you go one dollar invested in alcohol Somewhere along the line, that always produces the 10 times positive result. Dan: Oh, good, that's noted. Dean: Yeah, I'm not sure that marijuana does that. Dan: Oh no. Dean: Yeah, yeah, anyway, yeah, but I spent a day on that conference and. What I did is we chose the speakers and then alanora called each of them to see if that was okay and we specified the topic, and that was all done by you know, alanora. And then what I did is I wrote a fast filter for each of the speakers, not on what they were going to talk about, but how they were going to talk, okay. And I thought it worked really well. I thought it worked really well. Dan: It really did. I mean the panels were, you know. It seemed like the whole thing moved quickly. Everybody was bringing valuable insight, even just the. The resources they were recommending, especially your. The ai panel, was fantastic, not too much. You know I I immediately came back and started using perplexity and I downloaded perplexity as so let we should probably set the stage for what perplexity is as a chat, gpt alternative and combined with kind of Google and yeah, well, it's interesting because I've done it on about 10 different Questions, you know. Dean: I asked a question and then I get an answer and uh then, but it's got Uh two neat things about it. At down below it has three more questions that you might ask. Okay, three more. Dan: Um, yeah, on the topic. Dean: That first of all gives you the original answer, and then it suggests three more things you might look into. But, at the top it's got four boxes and these are references that you can go to that indicate where it got you know the information to answer your question. And if you do all, if you do the first thing. And what I was asking was mark mills, who is a tech Thinker. He thinks a lot about what technology is doing to the world and he mentioned in one of his books it's called the cloud revolution that if you look at technology, almost all the breakthroughs happen as a result of combining three existing technologies. And he goes back and he goes rake back to Samuel Morris in the mid 19th century with the telegraph, and then he comes all the way forward to not to ai, but to when how the internet came into existence. You know, he puts the internet and talks about the three things that had to be there first before you could even think about Creating this new technology. And the reason is I'm writing a quarterly book right now which is called everything is created backward, and and what I mean by that is that you can't you can't create the future out of the future, because there's nothing there. Dan: Right right. Where's the stuff you know First of all, I've never been rendered in the simulation. Here it's unrendered. Yeah, nobody's ever been nobody's ever been there. Dean: You know they I mean. But the problem with it is that you have to do a awful lot of convincing With something you try to create out of the future, you know and but I gave the anxiety. I just wrote the first chapter, but the actually the introduction, and I use itunes as the example that steve jobs simply took three things that already existed. One was the mp3 player, which he apple already had. The ipod Okay, it already had millions of people already using the ipod, so he had a build-in. He had a build-in audience to go through with something new. The second thing is that nabster had already pretty well figured out how you use the internet to download single songs. Yes, okay and their only problem with their model was that it was illegal. They were stealing, they were stealing and that's that. Never has long shelf life. Dan: They were sharing something they were sharing. Dean: No, they weren't sharing, they were stealing. They were stealing other people's property and making money on it. Yeah, that's called theft, and and then apple had its operating system, so it was the mp3 player, the nabster innovation with the internet and the apple, you know, apples operating system for all of its computers, which it had many more already existing Customers, you know customers were already using it. And then he put it together and he created iJudon. You know it was an app that went on your apple platform and you could download music and then put it in your ipod. Dan: That's great and you're right, like it's. I see the triple play the things now I can. Just I'm looking at it. Dean: I mean, if you look at, artificial intelligence and work backwards as a result of three things. I haven't really analyzed that, but it seems to be three things that had to exist before, and so what I'm suggesting in the book is that the key to your future is actually what you're doing with the past, your past experience, what's available to you, yeah, and so that's. I think that's a tremendous breakthrough. I think this is a keen insight. Dan: Yeah, I mean, what was a keen insight for me? My biggest takeaway from the free zone. Dean: I was looking for a little bit more excitement on your part. Dan: No, I'm totally excited and this is where it's. It's related to what you're saying that when we had the conversation about Looking back at the habits that you've established, oh, yeah, now, yeah, that's what I meant is that, looking working Backwards, like that, everything that we've created right now is the some, you know, the accumulation of all of the Daily habits that I have instilled, right, the behaviors and habits and choices, and that only you know. I think it goes in that. I think that fits with what you're saying, that you can't. It's not about, you know, picking something in the future. When you said, what are the habits, what are the daily present habits of future dan or future dean, of where you want, and that's the real thing is that having to establish, though, those habits? Yeah, I've had a couple more thoughts. Dean: I've had a couple of birth thoughts since we talked in palm beach about how you could approach this, and so one of things and I have a tool that I've created which really hasn't gone into the program at all. It's called the top 50 tool and it's just a page and it's got 50 boxes, okay, and what you do, and what you do is when you have a number of things. So let's just Apply it to the present project. You have 50 existing daily Habits right now. Everybody does, you know everybody in the world and I'm just arbitrarily picking 50. Yeah, my sense is it's if you put all the habits, the little things that you've woven together to produce who you are today. Yeah you know it could be in the hundreds, you know hundreds or thousands, but you know it fills up the time. Yeah, you can account for it. Yeah, in the 24 hours, and then the waking hours. Probably there's probably habits you have at life and nighttime which bear Examination. But I said okay. So the first part of the project is just create a sheet. That's got, you know, it's got 50 boxes. You know five by 10, okay, okay, and number them one through 50. And then just you know, and every day as you go through, observe something else. For example, in our house I do the dishes, okay. Mm-hmm babs cooks and I do the dishes. So usually it hangs around, you know it hangs around. We have supper. You know we have not so much breakfast, but we had lunch and dinner and there's dishes and I just put them next to the sink, close to the dishwasher, and then I go about doing something and then I, and then you know I open the dishwasher and there's a previous meals already, clean dishes there, so I have to unload it and you know, put everything in the shelf and then I load it. Okay, and it's not a kind of how that I really like doing, but it's the agreement, you know Okay, so within the last three weeks I've adapted as soon as the meals finished, I do the dishes, okay. And in order I put the dishes in the dishwasher, and in order to do that, before the meal I look at the dishwasher and I unload it and put everything away so that when the meals finished, it's just a matter of rinsing the dishes and putting them in a dishwasher. Well that's two habits. That's two habits right there. Okay, so they would go down in boxes. You know two of the boxes, okay, but once I do it, and I'm doing it the way that I would like to see it, see me doing it in the future, you know. And you know, and sometimes we have staff in the house and they do it so that it gets taken care of, but it's not my, but when it's just Babs and me at our home and at our cottage. You know, two homes in Toronto, and a home in Toronto, a home in Chicago and then a cottage up north in Canada. Anyway, and I'm the dishwasher, you know. Dan: And I had to do it. Dean: So I said, since I'm gonna be doing this for the rest of my life, I might as well you know kind of improve it so that I actually enjoy the activity. Dan: Yes, I really like this, Dan, Like you're saying the same thing. I mean the things that have been triggered from our conversation about it in Palm Beach. You know, Like you just described, it's one of those things If, even if you ask yourself the question is there any way to not do anything? I mean, the thing is that the dish has gotta get done. Dean: Well, the other thing that's part of my relationship with Babs, you know, and she's commented a couple of times during the last two weeks and she said I really like it that you get it done right away. Yeah. Dan: Oh, there you go. Yeah, that's your target audience. Right there, I'm getting social proof from your target audience. That's the exact thing. Dean: This is. I can tell you, this is my number one target audience. Yeah, so let's say you go through and you fill up your 50, okay. You know, you get them. You know, maybe I'll take you two or three weeks and you just notice little things. You know how you get up in the morning, you know, you know how you get ready for the day and everything, but there's a lot of little habits. There's a lot of little habits there, and then you sort of reach 50 and you say now, how many of these? How many of these tomorrow, can I improve? I'll look at the habit. And then I'll say to myself how would I like this always to be going forward? And then you do it that way. You do it that way, and then you have to attach a point system to it, so you're scoring every day. Because, I don't stick to things I can't score. Dan: Right, well, you may like, dan, there's James Clear just launched his. Adams app, which is Adams A-T-O-M-S, and he's the guy that wrote you know Atomic Habits and this is exactly what you are talking about here. You know you can make, you can create habits that you want you can, and it gives you prompts or you can track. It's almost like wind streak in a way, right when you're adding things on it, but daily you can. So I set up my first habit that I set up just on Wednesday or Thursday I downloaded the app. Actually, I set up that I said I want to start with the first thing in the morning that I drink half a liter of water, the 500 milliliters of water. The first thing that I do when I wake up to rehydrate and do that. So I've done that. Now I've had Thursday, friday, saturday, sunday four rounds of that and it tracks your streak and it shows you your progress and so I've had four total repetitions so far. And the way they set it up is you put a purpose around the habit, like why you're trying to do this right. So the habit is that it's always like a place and a time and a reason. I think right, so it's a vote. And when they do your thing, when they give you the report, it's like congratulations, that's four votes for your healthy dean or whatever You're making. Every day you're making a vote. Dean: I think that's great yeah. Dan: I'm voting for this. So habits is the name of the, or Adams is the name of the app on iTunes. Dean: It's done in the app store, right. Dan: It's in the app store and it's just a yellow stacking yellow with like a white stacking thing. Dean: But yeah, I've periodically over the last dozen years been conferences for James's, you know, and I've always enjoyed his take on things. Dan: Yeah, and that's I mean. I like this Dan a lot. This is kind of gamifying thing. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Now. Dean: I can tell you what my if you call it my top 50 tool. Then there's a little arrow in each of the boxes and what you do is you press the arrow and it takes you to a page where you develop your criteria for what constitutes a great habit. Okay and then you attach numbers to the to that, and there's room, I think, for 10 criteria. Okay, and then you go through, and one of them is that I want to be more and more doing habits every day that are going to last the Rest of my life. Yes so that's that would be one criteria and I give my, I can establish the range, and and then you all you have to do is the criteria for one, and then that applies the criteria to all of them, and Then, as you go along, you start improving the criteria, and the moment you improve the criteria, it improves it for all of them. Okay, and then, as you go through, you notice that certain certain habits get a better importance score than others and it automatically, automatically prioritizes the 50, that this is number one, this is number two, this is number three. Rate to 50. What do you think about that? I really I mean would you? Dan: like to get that. Dean: Would you love to get? Dan: that. Where would one get one of these? Dean: Only from a particular person. Yeah, and it's right. Now, it's a file maker file, a file maker no longer Exists, but that this continues to work. Okay, this continues to work, okay, so I'll just send you the file maker oh, I like that a file maker form and, as you're going along, what it does is it give. I mean, I think the combination of the atom, the atom app and this tool probably Complets the circle it might be. Dan: I mean, I'd love to discuss what you're describing. Dean: Here's the tip sounds like as you go along, there's habits that are less important and they don't belong on the top 50. So there's another backup 50 and that they're in the backup 50. Dan: Okay, the farm team. Dean: Yes. Yes you can't have major league without a farm team. That's exactly right. Dan: I, like you know what's very. What's really interesting about this, dan, is if I was really Reflecting on my accumulated daily habits, right, if I look at what are my observable habitual behaviors? Right, and I went through the way I went through it was looking at the vignettes of each day, like looking at a timeline from the, the moment I wake up and and I was saying, you know, I have established Really good sleep habit of you know, my sleep window is Very uniform, my, you know, I woke up this morning I'm, you know, 8786 on my sleep and readiness score for my or ring. I get enough deep sleep and all that. So I've established that habit of Really a really good sleep window there. Then I started looking at, you know, my observable, if we were just somebody was following me around, logging my movements, like in a computer program or whatever, like just line items like Lining, describing every step or everything that I took part of. It is, you know, look, replacing now looking for the opportunities, like where do I want to establish this habit? And I think that little window of you know right, when I get up the first, you know the first hour of being awake. What do we want those habits to look like? Yeah, would future deans habits be? Dean: You know something there are constraints and deans, future habits. You know what? They are deans present habits? Dan: are yes, that's exactly it. I get it and that's what you're saying. I'm like you. Dean: Do anything in the future now you can't do anything in the future. You can only do things in the present. Yeah, the future. Dan: That's exactly right. Dean: Yeah, but I've been around the tech people and you know I mean, like the environmental movement, no more fossil fuels. That's a bullshit, is such a bullshit goal Because 80% of all the energy on the planet comes from fossil fuels. Okay, the other thing is that the people have these kind of goals are really not very good at getting anything done. Dan: Yeah. Dean: They went to university. They've been in university for six years, you know they've been in school since they were four years old. They've never actually done anything in the real world, you know and. But they're going to change the entire structure of the world and the problem is that it's not a plausible goal. Like no fossil Fields, you know, the other one is no borders. You know the thing we shouldn't have borders. Well, there are borders and people will kill for the borders. Yeah, right, but the thing is the people who set these type of goals in the future are some of the most incompetent people on the planet and it's really interesting that the the way you described it there. Dan: All these people, they're not accountable for the day we have. They're talking. They're just going and admonish people about this future. There's no fossil fuel because it's not actionable. Dean: It's not actually, and what they're trying to generate is tax money. They're trying to generate Donations. They're trying to but without ever producing any kind of satisfactory result you know, yeah, because they're just painting the ideal. Dan: And I wonder, how do we do that in our own lives? I mean, well, the big thing. Dean: Well, one of my things that have occurred to me is that all your goals for the future are actually you Operating, you personally as an individual operating at a higher level of capability, you know I mean you know, if you have a, you have one house and you have a house, another house that's bigger, it's better. You know it's got far more, it's more in the right place, it's. You know it's got about 10 Better criteria that you could say. And you say, well, that's my goal and I said no, that's actually the result of you being a Different and more productive person in the future. So every goal you have to bring back that it's you as a person operating at a higher level. You're making more money, you know, and that's number one. You know, yeah, and in order for you to make more money, you've got to look at what you're doing right now to make money and improve it. There may be, between you and that house, there may be, 10 Improvements that you have to make to how you're making money right now. Yes, yeah, this is yeah maybe eight profit activators. Dan: Which one? Dean: all the profit activators are habits, aren't they? Dan: they are, yeah. Yeah, you're absolutely right with metrics. I mean, that's part of the thing I think is that's measurable, right, everything you're describing. That be a good habit horrible habits. Yeah, huh, yeah, and I was dawned on me how long these habits, many of them, have been established. Like, I like your idea of the ranking of the habits. I mean that's it's, you know the numbering them, you know there's probably a Habit you know, but this is endless pursuit. It feels like you know an endless. Well, it's a daily person. Dean: It's a daily improvement activity. You know because what I'm finding? I've been doing this for about four months. Daily habits, and the first one and what I've been doing is I've been going to Buenos Aires. I've done it three times, for the fourth that's coming up in two weeks. And and there's basically six weeks before visits to Buenos Aires. So I said I'm going to create a 42 day cycle of changing certain habits. Okay, oh, wow, anchors is something right. Well, you anchor it in time, you give it a, and then so that's. You know, six weeks is 42 days. It's an odd time period and that intrigues me, you know. So I've got these 42 improvement, 42 day improvement periods. Dan: And then I say Just a lot to support the 42 is that. You know they say it takes 21 days to establish a habit and 42 is just twice that. So you get two cracks at 21 days to establish. Dean: You just explained why I did it. You just explained why I did that, but I didn't know that. Dan: There you go. No, that's great, though right Like that's a. Dean: I'm doubling down. Yeah, yeah yeah, I hadn't seen that. I had not seen that. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Anyway, but what I did? The first one, it was very simple no snacking between meals. I don't get into trouble with meals. I get in trouble with what happens between meals. Okay, okay. Dan: And. Dean: I aced it, I aced it, I aced it over 42 days, and then I started adding so the second one had two or three habits, the third one, you know, the 42, because I'm getting used to it, okay, and you know. And then all of a sudden I said pay attention to all your habits and just do it right. If there's something you have to do that day, do it the way you would like to have it done in the future, and then give yourself points for that. You know, and so. But there's an enormous Well. First of all, there's a dopamine hit to it, because it means that every day is valuable for learning and growth, and that's a, you know, that's a great thing. Dan: This is fascinating because that dopamine is healthy. Good, you're the beneficiary of the dopamine compared to like watching. Dean: You're your own dealer, yeah. Dan: Be your own dopamine dealer. Dean: Be your own dealer. Dan: That's a great title for a quarterly book, Ben. Dean: I just logged in. Dan: I mean, that's the truth. Dean: You never know. Anytime you talk to Dan, to Dean, you're going to get a new quarterly book out of it. Dan: Sometimes you get a major market book out of it. You never know. Dean: That's a good habit, that's a good habit. I don't know what it is about, dean, but anytime I'm around him I can count about you know, half a year down the road, and something he said is now a book. Oh wait for this. Dan: You know what the elegance of your 42, the 42 days, six weeks is? That you could get two rounds of that per quarter. It's just another nice, elegant fit. Dean: Well, you can get basically 42, you can get two rounds and basically oh right, then a quarter yeah. Dan: You can yeah 12 weeks. Dean: And then you get some free days to. Yeah. Dan: Go wild, I'm better. Yeah, enough of this structure. Dean: Enough of this structure, you know. But the interesting thing about it is you're actually, every time you improve a daily habit, you're exponentially improving your future. Yes, yes. And it's the only way. Yeah. And the thing is, there's certain habits you would like to change today, but you have to change some other habits before you can get to it. Yeah, so yeah, I'll give you an example. I've been listening to people talking about intermittent fasting. Yeah, Like you go a weekend without eating. I said no, I'm not anywhere near that. But what I've noticed is on Saturday and Sunday I can have 16-hour periods between meals. Dan: Okay, yeah. Dean: And I said, you know so, on Saturday we have dinner at three o'clock in the afternoon and then I don't eat again until so that's nine hours before midnight, and then I have, you know, I eat breakfast at seven and then that's 16 hours. Dan: Okay, yep. Dean: And that's intermittent fasting. Dan: Yeah. Dean: And I can do the same thing on Sunday over Sunday night and breakfast. So I said, no, I'll just start off. Once on a weekend I'll do it. And now I'm at the point where I can do it twice on a weekend. You know people said well, you know, it doesn't matter, unless you do it for a couple of days. And I said I can't do it for a couple of days. Dan: Right. Dean: My habits. Don't support it yeah. Dan: Yeah, and I mean I don't know what to do about it. Dean: So whenever people say you should do something, you have to check back and say, ah, interesting, but my habits don't support what you're talking about. Dan: Right, right. Yeah, this is amazing. I mean, I'm not really a dashboard and scorecard, but you're totally in control of that. Dean: You won't. Dan: Yeah, you're the only one who knows the habits? Dean: You're the only one that knows how you want the habits to be in the future. Here. Dan: Yeah. Dean: There's complete agency here on the part of an individual. You know, and you can know all the ramblings of other people about what you should do and you have to do this. No, it's not so. It's bullshit Right. Dan: Yeah, yeah, I mean this is yeah. And then there's a. There's a guy, rob Dierdek. I don't know if you know him. Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did mention him. Dan: Okay, yeah, that you know. Everything that we're talking about is exactly. You know what he's on board with. Everything he's talking about is Dave Tuchad, chad Jenkins. Dean: Willard oh Chad Jenkins. Dan: Chad Jenkins I gave him and Steve Dastante actually, yeah, Rob Dierdek back to back two podcasts called the most unrelatable podcast episode you'll ever listen to. And it was him describing to the what ends he goes to track and quantify and establish his daily habits. And it's fascinating, I mean just to see, you know, make things inevitable, you know. Dean: Yeah, and there one thing that makes you appreciate that nervous systems are really different. You know human nervous systems are really. You know, what appeals to one person doesn't appeal to other people, and I think that's a tough nut to crack for a lot of people, because they want what they're doing to be the truth. And I said well, it is the truth. Dan: It is the truth. Dean: It is the truth, but don't go beyond yourself with it. You know, you know and and I think it has a lot to do with your you know your early experiences in life, what you got used to doing, what you like to do, things that you didn't like, and I think and these are forming before we have the ability to be conscious about them. Dan: How many of your habits Dan in on looking at your list are 50 year old oak trees? Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean some of the habits are oh yeah. Yeah. Dean: Some of them are. Some of them are beyond 75 years. Dan: Right, and some of them you know. Dean: I'm probably not going to fool around with those. Dan: No. Dean: Not at first, not at first. Do not take on a 75 year habit. Right, exactly, yeah, but it's really interesting Now, as you know, this happens to if we we can shift the context. I've been very interested in the, the reason why, in the last two weeks, google has lost $90 billion it's market value because of that Right. Because of a stupid AI chat. Okay. Dan: Yeah, I don't know what happened, so you know well what they do. Dean: it's a new chat chat bot that, when you put in directions, it'll create graphics for you. Okay, Okay. I'll give you an example. A guy says can you give me a picture of Vikings? And it comes back and they're all black. Dan: Okay. Dean: Now. Vikings were the whitest people in the world. Dan: Yes, right, right. Dean: Northern European. Not much sunlight, you know. Dan: Yes. Dean: So, anyway, and that says show, give me a picture of the founding fathers of the United States. And there are a whole bunch of them sitting on that table and a number of them were black. So what? Okay, so just giving you the general context, that what's being reflected in the Google chat bot is the dominant political views of the organization. Interesting, isn't it so? And they're getting such backlash. Well, their stock valuation went down by 90 billion in about a week and a half, 90 billion they just dropped, you know, their stock value. Now I would interpret that as someone giving you feedback. Right, right. Dan: Right. Dean: Right, you know, because what a stock price is an estimation of the future value of something you know and what I realize is that now they're scrambling. They had everybody had to work all this weekend to correct the problem. But the problem isn't their chat bot, the chat. The problem is Google's dominant thought process. Okay, so what's being reflected in any organization's cloudlandia presence is what their mainland habits are. I mean I don't think you can communicate too much beyond what your dominant habits are as an individual and as an organization. Dan: Yeah, this is you know, and I wonder if that so you're thinking like the Google things as reflecting their own biases are coming through in the stuff that it's how do I? Dean: that they have a bigger game to change how people think you know I think they do. You know, and you know, and you know, and maybe they shouldn't be that ambitious. Maybe they should just change the way that they think. Dan: Yeah, there's no. It's so amazing to me that there really is no. Like it's difficult now to get objective stuff, to get objective information without that. You know I saw that sort of you see it coming through in the biggest companies like Google, all the media, the mainstream, meta, meta, yeah, that, you see the whole. You know I look at. I was sharing with you the headline, you know, when Donald Trump just won South Carolina by a landslide. You know over 60% of the votes, 39% to Haley, and the headline on Drudge was 40% of Republicans don't want Donald Trump. It was like, what an amazing like flip of not mentioning the historical trouncing that she got in her own home state. Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah well, you know you know, in politics and in business the number 51 is really important. I tell people you know, when you own a business. There are two numbers that matter 51 and 49. 51 is the same as 100%, 51 is the same as 100% and 49 is the same as zero. Yeah, you don't understand the difference, the crucial difference, between 51 and 49, you're gonna have a rough life. You're gonna have a rough life. Yeah, and he has won three more tomorrow, and they were. You know, they were equal to the that he's been achieving everywhere else. He's now. There's now been seven states and he's won all seven. Yeah, but 40% of people don't want him. Dan: Yeah, 40% of Republicans don't want Donald Trump. That's right. Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the interesting, I think next Tuesday there's 15, you know, there's like 15, it's called. Super Tuesday Super Tuesday, yeah yeah, super Tuesday, and probably he'll be up by 22,. It'll be 22 to nothing by the end of Tuesday night, you know. And he said, and she'll be saying I'm gaining on him. Dan: Gaining on him. Don't give up yeah. Yeah, yes but it's like, it's like 22, 22 flesh wounds. Right, exactly, yes, I'm not dead yet I'm not dead yet Just a stump. Dean: no legs, no arms, but I can still bite you. Dan: Yeah, yeah, I can still bite you I can't quite. Dean: I can't quite figure out what her lawn game is by doing this short. You know her short term activity. I can't figure out what her lawn term plan is. Dan: Yeah, this. I mean what a year this is gonna be. It's gonna be a great year. Dean: This is a I think this is a tectonic shift year, and it's not just in the States. That happened in Argentina when we were down there, the new you know the new government that came in. It happened in Holland. It's kind of happening all over the world right now that people who know how to count are replacing people who don't know how to count. Dan: Yes, so amazing, Dan. I'm excited about the, about this, the 50. I'm excited to get that too. Dean: Yeah, I'll, I'll be in the office tomorrow and I'll have our tech team send you it. And it's just, you know, you just punch on it and it opens up and it's self-explanatory. There's it's called the top 50 tool. And then you know, you use 50 boxes on the first page and then you have a backup page that has 52 and you just start listing them and then you wanna grade them in terms of their priority as a habit, and then I think it fits in really well with what James is doing. Dan: Yes, I'm just that's the only habit I've established on there so far, but I think it's really, yeah, it's really, I think gonna be a great thing because you can anchor it to times, you know, like when you want to, when you want to establish this habit, like you were saying the dinner, the dishes, is what are you, how are you triggering that in measuring? So you're saying-. Dean: Well, you never lose if you do a habit that's from the past and it's not what you want in the future. You don't lose points if you do that. There's no losing points. You can only gain points, okay. Dan: Okay. Dean: So I've got a daily scorecard, okay, and like in the first 42 days, in. I've got a total of 122 points for you know, sticking to no snacks between meals. Dan: Oh good, that's great. So you're keeping like the tally of it. Dean: Yeah, I'm keeping a tally. And then when I go back to Buenos Aires and I said, next time I'm coming back and I you know, I don't remember exactly, but I added two or three more habits, you know, to it and as you're going through the day, you're becoming more and more conscious of your daily habits. If you do it 10 days in a row and you're tracking habits, the next habits on the list will suggest themselves to you. You don't have to go looking for them. You know you don't have to go looking for them, they're looking for you now. Dan: They want to get points they want to get points and they build. You get the momentum of the feedback too, right? Yeah, you know. Did Babs know what you're up to, or did she? Yeah, and just your observation. Dean: She's starting to do it herself. I mean, she was inspired to start. You know, start doing it. She won't do it to the maximum way that I do, because that's not what she does. But she knows she's with me, so she knows things will get better. Dan: Right, right right. Dean: Yeah, I'm around a good habit-forming person. I mean, that's just, I'll just hook on and I know things will get better, but anyway, yeah, and. But you know, what it's doing is that all humans are completely equal and that they only get 24 hours per day. That's true. Dan: That is true, your comment, the speed of reality. Dean: That's the speed. That's the speed of reality. Dan: Yeah, and I don't. I mean, it's funny when you say it. When I first started thinking about it I thought you know, is that too obvious? But it's, yeah, I think it's one of those. It's been right there. Dean: Well, the other thing that I can tell you a lot of the problem they're having in their life is they don't account for that truth, right? Dan: yeah, I think that's really the thing, right. It's tuning into the speed of reality and looking at the only times. The only time we can really have any action is today, and there's a hard stop. I mean, there's a hard stop on it that your sleep, you know, is a. There's no possible way for us to do anything tomorrow. Dean: Yeah, and the only impact you can have on yesterday is what you're changing today. Dan: Yes, and that's the thing I was having. So Joe Polish came up, came back with me from Palm Beach. He just left yesterday, but he spent three to four days with me here and I mean, we went through, we set up my total environment here for success, you know, in terms of eating, and we went through my kitchen and cleared out everything that isn't supporting the habit of future healthy being right, and we went through that kind of it was. So we were talking about the four C's two is the commitment, and then courage and capability. And so we went I don't cook and I've never cooked. I've never. You know, yeah, I've never cooked. No, don't really have any skill in that, but we went. Dean: That means that if we catch you cooking, we know something that's deeply wrong. That or? Dan: deeply right. I mean we went and got an Instapot. I don't know if you've heard of this device, but so the Instapot is a miracle vessel. I mean, you just put stuff in and push a button and then it cooks. It's like. So we went to the grocery store and we got some, you know, some organic chicken legs and chicken thighs and chicken breast, and we got some grass-fed ground beef 90-10 and we got some. We've had some. We've cooked the entire the whole four days that he was here. And so the thing is now I left this with a new capability, right Like. So now I've got and I said to Joe it's kind of like reframing. I think it's almost like getting back to my, to building a primal habit of going to the grocery store and hunting some dinner, hunting food. Right, go, hunt some chicken and bring it home and clean it and cook it and enjoy and eat it, you know, but how easy Rather than having food hunting you. Absolutely, that's exactly right. And so that capability, you know, like we, we literally just take the chicken, wash it some salt and pepper, put it in the pot, put some potatoes in there on top, whole, you know whole, just washed, you know, Yukon gold or gold potatoes, put it in there, press the button 11 minutes and it's the most delicious. Whole, you know whole, some. No, no oils, no anything. It's just so clean, right, You've got organic chicken, you've got the stuff, and it's delicious. And then we, you know, got on the pan. I learned some pan skills right Of being able to, just with some butter in the pan, you know, grass fed, organic butter, of course, and putting. We got some steaks that were like, thin cut. We got some pork chops that were thin cut, ground beef, all of those, just the same thing, just taking the meat, salt and pepper and a little bit of, if I wanted to add any spice or whatever to it, cook it on, you know, both sides, and there you go. We even chopped up zucchini and squash into little medallions and sauteed them in the in the pan. So this capability now of being able to see this is a better habit to do than well driving through somewhere, right. Dean: The big thing is that it's got a future reference, that you have a sense of who you'd like to be in the future as an individual. You know and you can only be that in relationship to the habits that you form right. Because you know, there's part of our day which requires focus. Concentration because it's new stuff, yeah, and therefore the habits have to be good. When we're not focusing directly on the activity, you have to have great habits, you know yeah and and yeah. the book I just came out with the great meltdown is that the US is the top country in the world because it's got the best widespread habits of people using innovative skills to lower the cost of money, lowering the cost of energy, lowering the cost of labor, lower cost and no country in the world can possibly match it. You know, yeah, yeah, the prices of things are up and down, unpredictable around the world, and but the US has a habit of always trying to lower the cost of anything. you know yeah and other countries don't have this, and so you know. You can see the difference between Canada and the United States right now. I mean it's really extreme. From the last time you were here, the difference the average per capita income in the United States is now lower than the per capita income of Mississippi. Dan: Wow, the United States, the in. Dean: Mississippi is number 50 and per capita income and the average. Canadian is now below, below the per capita is in the low Wow, yeah, I wasn't. Dan: it wouldn't have expected that. Dean: Yeah, and not only that, they don't freeze to death in Mississippi. Right that's exactly right. At least I got that going for them and that's basically. You can measure it from when the president, prime minister, came in, has been going downhill since this prime minister came in because he wants to save the world. Dan: Yeah, it's interesting, right, that's been funny to watch the. You know my algorithm, for you know, sending me things, video clips and stuff is now I get a lot of those, Pierre Polly. Dean: Yeah, yeah, smart guy. I had breakfast with him about five years ago. Yeah, smart guy, very smart, yeah, and from Alberta French speaking from Alberta, that's a pretty good. You know, that's a pretty good background. Dan: You know he's got a triple. Dean: That's a triple play Canadian that's a triple play for a Canadian. That's French, french. Dan: I mean that's, he's got it all covered because, it just doesn't get it. Dean: And then his wife is from Venezuela, she's a refugee. So she knows what a country gone wrong early looks like yeah, oh, that's funny. Yeah, yeah, and you know, so so anyway, but you can just see the difference that the United States is better at handling milk costs than Canada is. Dan: Yeah, wow. Well, dan, I'm excited, this is great. Seven days? Yeah, well, I'll tell you the tool I can promise you you'll have the tool by this time. Dean: Not this time, but by the end of the day. Tomorrow you'll have top 50 tool and just play around with it. I mean it's self-explanatory, you don't have to. There's no rule book that comes with it. You'll just play with it. Just remember, in every square where you put something, if you press the arrow it takes you to the criteria page. Okay, perfect. Dan: I'll do it. Dean: Yeah. Okay, then I'm interested in the teamwork between the top 50 tool and the Adams app. That'll be really interesting because I've been lacking a daily scoring system. You know, people won't stay with something unless they can score on a daily basis. That's the truth. Dan: That is true. Dean: Yeah. Dan: I can't wait. Dean: All right. Dan: I'll see you. I can't wait. I'll have it tomorrow. Dean: All righty. Thanks, Dan. I'll be on next week if you are, I am absolutely Okay. Dan: Okay, thanks, dan, okay, bye, bye.

In today's episode of Welcome To Cloudlandia, Dan and I explore Ontario, Canada, alongside a discussion of groundbreaking research on an immortality gene. A doctor shares insights into pinpointing this gene's phenomenal potential for humanity. Lightheartedly, we touch on frequent flyer miles and a Buenos Aires stem cell treatment trip. Shifting to business, we analyse the impactful Working Genius model's six elements - Wonder, Invention, Discernment, Galvanisation, Enablement and Tenacity. There are a lot of nuggets in this episode that prompt us to reevaluate what truly enriches our world.   SHOW HIGHLIGHTS We discuss the fascinating exploration of an immortality gene found by a doctor, that has the potential to revolutionize human life. We touch on the effects of altitude on our bodies and share some anecdotes about our trips for stem cell treatments. We delve into the Working Genius model and its six elements that foster successful collaborations in business. Mark Lechance and Babs share their experiences with the Working Genius model, emphasizing its practical benefits. We share the thrilling story of Matt, a man of Discernment and Tenacity, who successfully navigated domain name issues to set up a project in real time. We examine the dynamics of travel and connectivity, challenging the notion that convenience and comfort are sources of happiness. We discuss the importance of purpose and meaning in achieving true happiness and explore the future of transportation, including the possibility of human-carrying drones. We analyze the psychological limits of convenience in our modern era, and encourage listeners to reconsider the value of real experiences over convenience. We explore the future of travel convenience, discussing how modern technologies have reduced travel friction and predicting the future of transportation. We discuss the concept of convenience, how it is interpreted differently by different people, and reflect on the emotional experience of convenience. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dean: Mr Sullivan. Dan: Thank God, there we go. Dean: There we go. Thank God we're recording. Yeah, I don't like the sound. Dan: I don't like the sound. Dean: There was just an interruption, that's all I don't like the sound of that voice of yours. What's up? Dan: Well, I just got a cold, I got a head cold Friday, I think. And here I am. Here I am, though, and I'll use the capability that I have available to me to have a great podcast. Dean: There we go. I love it. Well, I missed you last week. I've had a great two weeks. Lots to catch up on. Dan: I'm sure you've had it in the last few weeks. Yeah, we did. We were at DaVinci 50 and Sundance. I've never been there before. Dean: How did you like? Dan: that. Yeah, it's a neat place, it's sort of a neat place, but Babs doesn't operate good at 7,000 feet. Dean: Oh, boy, okay. Dan: So she has some issues. But, she went and she got a. What's it called? It's an IV that you take that pumps your energy up. Dean: Oh, okay. Dan: I knew, yeah, so fortunately we had a lot of medical advice around us. A little bit, yeah and they were able to get right on it. She had it, but she wasn't sleeping well and I'm pretty good. I don't have that problem at altitude, but there was a lot of downhill climbing from our room to the. And my knee, which hopefully, and we're off to Buena Cerras, Argentina the first week of November to get stem cell treatment for my knee, so hopefully that'll be done. Yeah, yeah, we fly in overnight. They pick us up at the airport, take us right to the clinic and I get an injection in the first hour when I'm there and that's my stem cells coming back at me and the promise is that I will grow a new cartilage. Dean: And how long does it take for that to be noticeable? Dan: It's about six months until it grows back. That's what I'm told, and there's a protocol of not putting too much stress on it, not to go hog wild. Dean: Well, how perfect is that You'll have a new me for your AB of perfect I will Just about, and that's exactly right It'll be on. Dan: My birthday will be six and a half months and this will be six months. We go down twice more so that they can check on the progress, and so our frequent flyer miles are going to go up, and it's a long, long flight. Dean: Nine hours have you been to Plano Furniture before? I have not. Dan: I have not this is the first time and they're I think they're either an hour or two hours ahead of Toronto time. Yeah. Dean: One of the things. Dan: Yeah, no, they're an hour and a half Exactly. That's so funny, but it's sort of when you look at the map. It's always a shock to me how that, if you go to London Ontario, all of South America sits east of London Ontario. That's wild, isn't it? Yeah, it's amazing Because you think of South America being under North America but it actually curves around to the east and Ecuador. The west coast of Ecuador is the furthest point in South America and that lines up perfectly with London Ontario and, for those who are listening, it's sort of Columbus Ohio, if you think of Columbus. Dean: Right, right, right, there you go. Dan: Dream of Iowa. Yeah, and Americans, you know Ontario. Where's Ontario? Isn't that near Los Angeles? You? Dean: know they have an airport here. It's called Ontario yeah. Dan: Ontario Airport. You know. Well, that's great. Well, of course it's east of Ontario, california, but you know we're talking about a province that is basically the size of Western Europe. Dean: It's probably the size of Europe, but Ontario. Dan: Yeah, I was realizing the vastness. Dean: When I got to understand the vastness of Ontario I realized somebody pointed out that you could drive north in Ontario the distance between Toronto and Florida and still be in Ontario. That's pretty big right. Dan: And if you did east to west, from Cornwall to Canora, that's basically two cities in Ontario. It's the same distance as Washington DC to Kansas City. Dean: Wow, okay, yeah. Dan: Well, there we go. That is pretty much about all the Canadians huddled close to the border. 90% of the Canadian population is within 100 miles of the US border. Dean: That's great. Well, any big shares from Da Vinci. What's coming down the pipe? You got new me. Dan: Yeah, the biggest thing. First of all, richard is a phenomenally good chooser of great speakers. Yeah, and it's always very, very enlightening, if not shocking, some of the research that's being done, and I think we have a couple of doctors who were there. And one of the doctors, doctor doctor West, says that it's pretty clear now that there's a fundamental gene, if you will I'm not sure exactly what the terminology is- but, it's a gene, that's the immortality gene, okay, and they've been able to zero in on it because none of our genes die. I mean the body they're in dies, but none of the genes themselves actually die. They're immortal and because we all have them, so all humans have them, and every time a new human being is born, it's basically picking up on a couple of million years of genetic development. Yeah so they know that those are immortal. And but in each individual there's a turnoff, there's a series of turnoff mechanisms I'll just use a more understandable term here and they're zeroing in on this. For example, there are life forms that don't die flat, flat, flat, flat. Worms, for example, don't die. You know, they, they just never die. And you cut them in half and you can cut them in half, and doesn't matter which half, and they can regrow the other half back. So so you know, I mean, it's just really, it's just really interesting where all this is going. I mean, what's the time frame for this, to discover this? Well, they don't know that, you know. But the bare fact that they're they now think it's possible and that they're experiment way. I just find all that stuff interesting. Dean: Yeah, I find it very interesting too. Yeah, that's great. Dan: I mean, it's kind of the fact that we can know that DNA exists. Dean: I mean the fact that somebody discovered that and I mean it's just, how would you even know to look for something like that? Right, yeah, we take it, you know we're. It's so amazing, the things that I mean that's all happened in the big change from 1975 to 19. Dan: They're 2025, you know, I've been really thinking about that. Dean: That too, the you know the the biggest change If we take, if we extend out to 2025. I think that period of 1975 to 2025 is going to be, you know, civilization changing yeah you know scope of what's happened here. Dan: Yeah, but it's like yeah. Well, my redone it is, that it's the people who benefit from this. It's not going to be worldwide. The next 50 years let's say 2025 to 2075, I think that. I think what we're going to see is massive political and economic change, because there's a there's a point where you wanted to become a powerful technological country. And at this point not many have. I mean, if you think of all the countries in the world, the US is clearly, you know, in the lead, and the US has just so many other things going for it. You know, it's geography, for one thing, that's, it's really hard to invade the United States. I mean, first of all, 3000 miles of water one way and 5000 miles of water the other way, and then you have the Gulf of Mexico, and then you have Mexico. But Mexico in the 200 miles south of the US border is desert and mountain. It's not a it's not a populated area, and then the North North Canadians were always a threat, but now that they've nationalized pot, that's that's neutralizing that. Right and Canada. Weren't we going to invade the United? Dean: States. I think the US looks at Canada, the natural resource reserve tank attached to their northern border. Dan: You know well it's, it's. It's America's biggest gated community. Dean: You know right. Dan: You have to check in at the gate you know, they make you check in at the gate and you can't bring in guns and they want to know if you have any alcohol. They want to know if you have any tobacco. They're not interested in you if you have any new ideas. Dean: Yeah, so you'll love this. I've got four C's that I've observed here, looking for the next 25 years and the I observe that, but you're going to tell me about that in the next podcast, right? Oh, I can tell you about it right now. Here we go. Dan: All right. Dean: So the first is increase, and I love how you always say increasing, as taken this from you, but increasing connectivity with the farthest outposts of the mainland. That is going to be a big driver of the next 25 years. I think we can if we're guessing and betting. That's where that's what I was thinking about, if I'm guessing what's going to happen in the 25 years. What can I bet on? And I bet on increasing connectivity with the farthest outposts of the mainland and that I don't think you can go wrong and I think that, as the technologies are evolving, that will facilitate that connection. That's going to be a big thing. I saw something dance. You know I haven't really been so on board with the metaverse and then I saw and I don't know whether you saw it the most recent video of Lex Friedman and Mark Zuckerberg having a chat in the metaverse with the latest version of the Facebook Visual avatar development where it creates a photo, realistic version of you, three dimensional, in your inner three dimensional space, and you could tell I mean first watching it on the video it's stunningly realistic and impressive. But you could tell that that Lex Friedman even said he's having an emotional experience. This is so uncanny that he's got the you know, the new meta headset on, but his feeling is like he's 100% for real in the room with Mark Zuckerberg, like literally having a real conversation with a real person, and that I think that's the first I've seen of what potentially could be what comes here. You know, because it was really, it was really pretty stunning. When you're watching the video, I'll send you the, I'll send you the link, unless you've already seen it. Dan: No, no, I haven't. This is the first I've heard of it. Dean: Okay, so they have. They basically have a. They split the screen like a try screen where you can see Lex or Mark with the headset on, like where they really are talking and what they're saying. Then they show the middle version, which is kind of the digitized version of what's happening, like all the without the shell on it kind of thing, and then they show the final, the real thing, and it look, if you just look at the visual thing, you would never be able to detect that this is not real. And that's the first that I've seen where there's no latency, there's no, you know, telltale, you know mismatching of the mouth movements or the eye movements or anything like that. If you just saw the third version of it, you would think that's really Mark Zuckerberg in real time talking and that's really Lex Friedman, and so that was like that opened my eyes to and they were just kind of in a, you know, a black background kind of thing, like in almost this. They're in a black, like on the Charlie Rose show or something you know, just their things. But you can imagine in, you know, giving fast forward into 2025, the overlaid on any visual environment. You could place them in at table 10, at jocks, you know, or at the select bistro and they're surrounded and, having that experience, I literally. I would. I would put because you know what, I've said it and you've said it that I don't really have any interest in putting on the goggles because I haven't seen an environment that's real. You know, but if I could put on those goggles and have a real table 10 experience with you, I would put on the goggles. Dan: That was that impressive, you know so that means I have to agree. No, it's one of the things I you know I'm I'm taking your description of it as real, but yeah, I haven't had the experience so I don't really know, you know yeah. Dean: So, anyway, I'll check it, I'll check it out, and yeah so there's the first, that's the first C for guessing embedding connectivity, connectivity, that then that I think, if I'm guessing, embedding on the next 25 years our increasing capabilities, both on demand and on cap. You know, I think if we look at the capabilities that AI is going to provide for us, I'm starting, you're starting to see now the real applications of this. Where you take these, these avatar technologies of being able to create your own digital avatar. I fully believe, now that that is going to be in detect undetectable difference between the real, I mean a digital representation, the real video that I had performed, or a digital AI have done it. So those, all those capabilities on demand, along with and if those are not, capabilities on demand through connectivity with the farthest outreaches of the mainland to every other human that's out there, you know, for the special, for the special things you know well not every other human being, but just the one. You know, the ones the ones who are on the main, the ones who are connected in cloud land you know, because, because I believe in Dunbar's law, that we only have emotional capability for at most about 150. Dan: Yeah. I mean everybody. First of all, I can't comprehend what everybody means, you know. I know Dean and I know Joe and I know. And you guys use up all my time. You know I don't have time. Dean: I was just going to say thankfully, we're solidly entrenched in each other's top 150. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan: I mean the other, the other eight, you know eight billion plus right, I mean I, I'm told they exist, but they don't really have that much. They don't have a place in my future, that much. Dean: Yeah, right, right. Dan: Yeah. Dean: I love it. Dan: And then the number three. Dean: Number three, yes, yeah collaboration that's going to lead to better and better and better collaboration opportunities with both humans and technology. I can't wait to reach your how to treat technology like a well-trained dog or whatever. Dan: What is it like? Dean: Like a great dog Like a great dog. Dan: Yeah, I own owning technology like a great dog. Dean: When is that coming out? Dan: Oh, it's out. Dean: It's out, oh it is. Dan: Yeah, you should have gotten a notice in the email that you can download the ebook. Okay, I'll see you about that. Dean: Yeah, I think that's fantastic. I had on the collaboration front. I had a really amazing widget extension. I've had a great experience this past couple of weeks here. The widget, of course, the working genius model, I see how useful. This is now in collaboration. Dan: We've got three of our team members trained as facilitator or training other people to use working genius. The moment you told me about it, I looked it up. We have the same UNI or the same we have the same. We're inventors and we're discerners. Babs is an inventor, is that yours? Dean: No, I'm DI your ID. I mean, I imagine it's the same thing, but Babs is what? Dan: She's IG, she's a galvanizer. Okay, yeah, right yeah, and I'm proof of it. Dean: So that's great, that's the perfect thing. That's your secret formula, right there. Dan: Yeah, I'm proof of it. Yeah, she galvanized me. Dean: Yeah, and so I had a really great experience with Mark Litchett. Why don't? Dan: we explain to those who don't know what we're talking about Sure Okay. Dean: So Mark, of course, unless you want to Go? Ahead. Dan: No, go ahead. Dean: Okay, so this was introduced to me by James Drage and James introduced this working genius model and you can find it at workinggeniuscom and it's one of the most useful assessments that I've ever come across, right Right up there with Colby, because I think I would rank them. Probably I would rank widget at the top, colby second, and I also like I find Myers-Briggs very useful, but I know you're not as big a fan of Myers-Briggs as I am. But the way that workinggenius works is that we all have workinggenius, which are things that we find effortless, really coincides with our unique ability, really harmonizes with all the strategic coach concepts and the idea is that every team needs, every collaboration, needs somebody in each of the six elements and the six calls spell out the word widget. So W is for wonder, someone who can look at something and see all the ways that this could be improved or where could we go with this. Then I is invention, which is making stuff up. There's a lot of I's in strategic coach. It would probably be, you know. Also, they would correlate with being quick starts, I'm sure. G is for discernment, the ability to look at options and know what the right thing to do is, to have a highly confident ability in discerning that this is the right thing to do. G is galvanizing, which is someone who has a genius for gathering all the people and elements that are needed to get something accomplished. E is for enablement, which is someone who can support the people who are doing the thing to make sure that everybody has everything they need to complete the task. And T is for tenacity, and tenacity is someone who has a high follow through, who makes things happen and takes things all the way to completion, so fast forward. I'm in a boardroom in Boca Raton with Mark Lechance and some of his team and I had this amazing experience of Isn't that amazing. Dan: We just had a metaverse experience because I'm the one that started the call with the cold, but now you have the cold? Dean: Yeah, I think mine is. I'm out in my courtyard and I can tell that our pollen count is very high right now, but anyway, I'm sitting there and I noticed how there's one of the guys on well, there were six of us in the room, but Mark Lechance is a galvanizer with invention, a galvanizer invention and I'm starting to identify like the one sentence summary of what these things are. So, mark's like one word, one sentence, like super power is gathering people, gathering the capabilities that you guys are super smart. Here's what I think we could do, you know, like this inventing all the coming up with ideas or the things that could be done. Then there was a gentleman there, matt, who is a D, he's a, he's got discernment and tenacity and my observation of that is that he would see something and say that's a good idea, and then the next word out of his mouth were done and he, like we were talking about something, we, you know, I came up, I was, you know, discernment and invention is my thing and I came preloaded with this is what I think we should do. We were doing, we have a VCR, vision capability, reach opportunity with one of the projects that Mark runs, and I came in already preloaded with here's the ideas. Well, I think we should do, which was, you know, it's a really great, great idea and we, you know, came up with the domain name, the whole thing, and literally right there in the, in the meeting you know, matt went and bought the domain name, set up like all these things are happening in real time and getting making something real you know, and so it was really amazing to see that, that collaboration between you know, the widget experience there. And I see now, like I realized, galvanizing that I would have guessed that Babs is a galvanizer, because that has been. You know that. That's the, that's the main thing that drives your ability to get your ideas into real world things. It's galvanizing the unique ability, teamwork of everybody on your, on your team, yeah. Dan: Yeah, and she just knows how to create team. I mean she, she knows how to create team leaders, she knows how to create teams and the teams have their, you know, they have their projects and they have their goals. And you know they have their measure measurements and everything like that, but one of the one of the things I've noticed about Babs is that she doesn't really comprehend the impact that she has just by being in the room. Dean: Yeah, I mean, how do you observe that? Dan: How do? You see, no, no, things just happen when she's in the room. Yeah, and in any situation, if you were somewhere with Babs and they had to get something done and within about an hour or two hours she'd be, she would be chosen as the leader. Dean: Right. Dan: Without her saying anything. Dean: Right yeah, right, right, right yeah. Dan: I mean, I mean she's six foot two and that helps you know, because she has a core. But you know, often, frequently, she's the tallest person in the room, but she just has a, she has command in her strength. Yeah, Command is number one. Yeah, you know. She just basically says okay, let's get started, let's get something done here. And you know, and you know I mean that's my life is divided into two parts before I met Babs and after I met, after I was with Babs. Yeah, and you know, it's just real clear that I'm just always highly motivated when I'm around here. Dean: Yeah, what are you looking at? Yeah. Dan: I'm looking at you, I remember you telling me and we're in the 42nd year of AAMD. Oh, that's funny, yeah, yeah. Dean: Okay. Dan: You've done you've. You've gotten three. What's number four? Dean: Okay, so the fourth is convenience that we're observing less and less friction in day to day interactions and mainland to Plumlandia, you know communication. So convenience, you know. I remember I think in 2016 or something, I read that article that I've shared about the tyranny of convenience and how we start to see it's a never ending, you know, desire to make things easier and better and ratcheting those advancements without going backwards. You know, and that's really I think, if I were to guess and bet on things being more convenient, increasingly convenient, over the next 25 years, I think we're going to be. I think that's a good bet and you know, you start to see that. I think that, as we're, we're already seeing things like you know, one click ordering from Amazon. That's now gotten into. You know, apple Pay and Google Pay and Amazon Pay you never there's no need to ever type your credit card into anything to buy online. But I see how that's going If we chart out where the room in convenience is. I also see, I see companies like Rocket Mortgage, you know, foreshadowing where we're headed, that when we start seeing everybody's got access to all of the data we're all going to be, you know, pre-underwritten in background. For anything we're going to have some, you know, available capital or available credit, you know pre-assigned already. You know that we literally will be able to push a button and get approval instantly for whatever we want, and I believe that the blockchain and smart contracts and all of these things are going to make things more and more convenient over the next 25 years, and that's where I've gotten so far. Those, so the connectivity yeah Well, I think they're good. So connectivity- Number one ��로 liability Number two. Elaboration number three. Elaboration and convenience, convenience. Uh-huh, it's good, I think those are, and there's probably more. Well, you know those are the first, uh, first four. Dan: Yeah, I wouldn't push it beyond four. Make the others be servants of the first four. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Yeah, yeah, you know. One of the things is. So what's the role of uh? Travel that takes time, it's the uh. I'm asking you a question here. Dean: Yeah, I think it's the. Uh, what's the? What's the? Dan: what's the role of travel that takes time? Dean: The physical, First of all. It happens? Dan: Travel happens in the mainland because if I can just, of course, if I can just click or have a thought and I'm so yeah and I'm meeting somewhere else, then it hasn't required travel. And it doesn't, it doesn't take time. So, and I think that that's where? Dean: Yeah, so the you know the inconvenience of travel is what is? Two things. That's inconvenient and it happens at the speed of reality. You have to move your, your, your meat puppet from one out. Dan: Yeah, I, I'm going to call you that. I think that's. I think that's a bad term. Dean: The meat. Dan: And I think it diminishes your body and the one thing I want to tell you about, about virtual reality. You're only using sight and sound. You're only using sight and sound. You're not using touch, you're not using taste and you're not. You know, and my sense is that actually, sight and sound make up about less than 10% of what the body actually uses to function. Okay, so, I can understand why my Mark Zuckerberg wants to be in another realm because he can't be speed. He's trying to find a place where he can't be subpoenaed. Dean: You know so. Dan: Right, right, yeah. And I understand that because he doesn't look like a human being who does well in terms of relationship and you know, and everything else, and I can understand why he wants to find another realm to do it, but we've got a million years of actually creating value out of things that take time and things that you know you have to travel over distance. Okay. Dean: Yeah. Dan: I don't think there, I don't. I can't sum up all that just as inconvenience, Right yeah. I mean learning doesn't. Learning doesn't happen instantaneously, learning happens over time. Yeah, so I'm just the American as you put the four things. As you put the four things together, I'm saying, yeah, but you know, when I go on a long trip, you know, for example, it takes two and a half hours for us to drive to the cottage. Okay, yeah, and I've been interested in plots during those two and a half hours that I wouldn't have if I just touched a button and I was in the cottage. Dean: Right, yeah, you think that part of the experience of it is the fact that it took a long time to get there. Dan: Yeah there was a price. There was a price for it. Dean: Yeah, you know yeah. Dan: And if I agree, yeah. So yeah, I'm, I'm. I don't have the answer to this. I'm asking the question. I don't have the answer. I have the answer to it yeah. But I'm noticing that convenience and comfort don't necessarily make people happy. Uh huh, I think purpose and meaning make people happy. You know achievement combined with purpose and meaning. Dean: And my experience is. Dan: That takes a bit of time. That takes a bit of time. Dean: And so yeah. Well, that makes a lot of sense. I mean there's so, um, yeah, that does it makes a lot of sense. And these are just uh. So I do, I'm looking at, no, I think they're they're available. Dan: I think what you're saying is that actually they all come under the heading of capability. You know it's obviously a huge jump in capability, because connectivity and um and uh uh, collaboration and uh and uh and convenience are great capabilities, you know, and I think people are always striving for greater capabilities. Dean: I agree, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something there's always going to be real. There's always going to be a higher value on on real. Dan: Yeah. Dean: I believe that we're definitely missing out. You know, and it's not by an order of just a small percentage, I mean, it's exponentially different. I think you know um say say what? what I think in the convenience, yeah when I was going to convenience things is that I think that the ability to make that travel, which is still highly valuable, being present in in a place is still highly valuable, um, but the elimination of friction in in doing that To the extent that you can, is going to be, I think, a safe bet. Uh, when you look at I it was, it was funny, we were, I was having a conversation with someone about the the newest travel trend. Uh, in mainstream travel is the private terminals that are popping up now, like at LAX there's was the first one that I heard of where you can bypass the, the main terminal. You go to a private terminal where you pull up, they valet park your car, you go into a suite that's got, you know, just a food and whatever you allow Comfortable for you to wait for your flight. You go through security, everything that's necessary, checking in the whole thing, and then, when it's time they drive you in, you know a BMW or an SUV, they drive you to on the ramp, to those where the plane is, take you up and put you on your on your seat and off you go, and that level of friction, skipping from the curb to the gate, that's what everybody is. That's where all the the hassle of of mainland travel is once you're on the plane. Nobody's mad at the first class cabin of any airliner. It's comfortable, it's. The seats are great, the food is great, the you know the environment. Everything about it is is fine. You get to your, your destination. It's just all the inconvenience from the curb to the gate. You know that we're all the we're all the thing is now. Now, and I also think, like recently, as you start seeing, I think it's pretty clear we're going to end up in a human carrying drone world where that, you know, drone flight is going to be, you know, for shorter, and it's going to be a two hour drive into a 20 minute, you know, taxi, drone, taxi type of environment. I think we'll see that in the next 25 years. I think that's a that'd be a pretty safe bet. Dan: I'll let you bet that it doesn't happen, okay, yeah. Dean: Good and that's interesting. So why? What makes? You think that, that, that it won't happen. Dan: Well, first of all, I don't think the capital is going to be there over the next 25 years, because capital money is getting very, very expensive and it's a function of the fact that transportation is getting very, very expensive. So when you have transportation very expensive, it makes money really expensive, it makes energy really expensive and it makes labor really expensive. Dean: And I don't think. Dan: First of all, I've never you may be the first person I've ever talked to had that as an aspiration or as a future thought, and my sense is that the next things to get invented is where there's like an 80% aspiration in the marketplace. We'd like to have this, you know, and you know, and I think the Amazon has done well, because there's an 80% wish that last minute purchasing or last minute shopping could be eliminated. Dean: Yeah, there's, there's something. I think that's true. Dan: Yeah, but one of the ways I've gone in the opposite direction, I've just eliminated all need for meetings that require travel. Dean: Yeah, me too. How is the travel industry doing? So I would say that that's more of an aspirator. Dan: I would say that's more of an aspiration than making travel comfortable. I would say not traveling at all is more of an aspiration. And, yeah, traveling with the least amount of friction. Dean: I agree and that's what I think would fit in with convenience. Well, I think we started going down that path. That was, I think that in every, in every way, in every element, I think convenience is really a driver right. That that's kind of we're definitely looking for things to be here and less friction. Dan: Let's look at the word convenience, because I think everybody's got a different notion of what constitutes convenience. You know, and I think it's is entirely defined by your situation in the mainland. I mean it only has been in relationship to the, to the. To the mainland I mean that my Apple computer comes on. It takes me, you know, five seconds to get on and I could do it in a second. I really don't care. I really don't care, you know right the five no five seconds. The five seconds seems good enough for me, you know I don't, I don't need it. So first of all, I think there's a point where convenience, or the striving for convenience, has a diminishing return. You know, because even at your personal airport, you know your private personal airport let's say that pretty soon there's going to be a desire on the ideal jet that there's a first class and the second class Right, and people, people say, well, why are they up there and we're, we're back here and you've got every convenience in the world. But because it's all psychological I mean all everything we're talking about here is psychological. You know, pricey psychological. Dean: And. Dan: I just feel that my notion of convenience may be different from your notion of convenience, you know. I mean if we went down step by step and we took our daily life and we went through, and everything like having food delivered to my house doesn't interest. Well, first of all, by all, my food is delivered by house by one person. You know we have a caterer and yes, but, but I can name on two hands. A number of times we've ordered in from a you know a restaurant, you know so that doesn't fall in my area of convenience, right yeah. Dean: Yeah. Dan: The other aspect about it is that traveling not under compulsion, in other words, I'm not compelled to travel, but just getting out and driving around. I find that interesting. Dean: Yeah, even like going up to the cottage or going. Dan: yeah, yeah, I find it interesting and you know, we have a halfway stop at Tim Hortons where we've never eaten, but we've always peed. The restroom is always in the same place. It's always clean. It's great. My definition of Tim Hortons in Canada is where white people go to get whiter. Dean: Have you ever experienced webbers? No, we go up to 404. Dan: We're heading to the east. We're not heading to the east. We've been on 400 and I've passed it, but the line up looked inconvenient. Dean: Well, you know it was quite a thing that they did was because that was kind of like the official stopping point of the way up to Muscova. That everybody would, you know, friday night stop and get a burger at Webbers. And then they brought in a great extent an overpass. They bought the land across before the oh no yeah. They brought in a great expense on an overpass that you could. Dan: Well, they could put in another parking lot. That's why they did it. Dean: Yeah, it's now convenient to stop on your way home, because it was super inconvenient. Dan: It's really interesting the I just want to zero in on the idea that convenience is uniquely defined. I think you're right. So I think a lot of the technology people make a guess that everybody is going to enjoy a new level of convenience that they're creating and they're generalizing they have to generalize human nature, that everybody's going to like this. I think it's a form of projection on the part of the inventors that, because they find it convenient to everybody else, only 16% of technology startups succeed. The thing, so it means that 84% of them. Yeah, I would say that most technologies are created to satisfy some form of convenience. Yeah, I would say. Dean: There's some definitions of convenience. I would love to go to the source here and see. So. Convenience is the state of being able to proceed with something with little effort or difficulty. Dan: Well, you and I are great believers in that. Dean: Yeah, the quality of being useful, easy or suitable for someone. And then the third is a thing that contributes to an easy and effortless way of life. Yeah, and so? I think, that that's going, no matter what you're doing, to making. I would argue that the virtual division of Strategic Coach has made it, through convenience, a possibility for people in what would otherwise be inconvenient parts of the world to participate. Dan: Yeah, and I think that you may. Zoom has, zoom has. Zoom has Zoom has. Yeah, my sense is that they Do. They need much more than Zoom. Do they need to actually have the feeling that they're? Dean: there. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, we're not going to be able to. Dan: I mean to be tested, yeah, to be experiment, tested. Dean: I was just like you know. You know just at what appeared to be what was literally appearing in this thing. So that was. I'm just reporting the news. Dan: Yeah and yeah, I know he seemed real, but is he real? Dean: Yeah, and I was only seeing a 2D. I'm only seeing the 2D example of it, right? So, yeah, I can't imagine what it would be like. If you Like Lex Friedman's response to it I don't know who he- is. Dan: by the way, I don't know who this person is. Dean: Lex Friedman is a very popular podcaster, similar in popularity as Joe Rogan, like that level, one of the top interview podcasters, very smart, intelligent guy. But yeah, this was His visibly, you know the visible reaction that he was having to. It was like he was having a hard time really describing the impact, the emotional experience that he was having of this and he's a pretty non-emotional guy. That's part of the you know the term he's of. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Yeah, well, I'm going to have. Dan: I'm going to have to have the experience I'm going to have to. The experience you know yeah. Dean: Yeah. Dan: By the way, that whole. Dean: You know us being able to. It's just so funny to think now of all of these things, like I just see the layering, of this constant improvement in understanding of both our unique abilities and the unique capabilities that are being presented to us and the convenience of collaboration. Did you watch 60 Minutes? Yeah, you don't watch any TV, so there was. Dan: I am innocent of the experience. Dean: Do you know who Rick Rubin is? He's a music producer. He's regarded as maybe the oh, no, no. Dan: I've watched his YouTubes. I've watched his YouTubes. Yeah, he's a great guy, yeah. Dean: Really, he plays guitar. Dan: He plays guitar right. Dean: No, he doesn't. He doesn't play anything, which is really. Dan: Which is really impressive. Somebody else that I'm thinking of he does a really great job of telling you why a song works or how a song works and everything. Dean: Yeah, yeah. Dan: Yeah, he's a white hair. Yeah, I'm looking at white hair. Dean: Looks like Nafuzela. He's the no. You're talking about Rick Beato. Dan: He's the guy you're talking about yeah, that's who I'm, that's what. Dean: I'm talking about. Yeah, no, rick Rubin looks like Nafuzela, he's got a beard and long hair, real zen kind of guy. But he was on 60 Minutes with Anderson Cooper and it was pretty. There's some great sound bites from it. Because Anderson Cooper was asking him well, what is it that you do? Can you play instruments? And Rick said barely Could you work a sound board? And he said I have no technical ability and I know nothing about music, like actual music things. And Anderson asked him well, what do you get paid for? And he said he thought for a second and said the confidence that I have in my case and my ability to express what I feel has proven helpful for artists. And I thought there's a guy, if we were to do a widget on him, I'm sure he's a GI, I'm sure he has discernment and invention as his two things. You can see, this is a good idea, this is the big idea here, and this is what I think you should do. Dan: You have a visitor in the recording. Dean: It's a crow. I think it's funny. Dan: Don't you know that you're sitting. Don't you know that you're occupying his space? I? Dean: must be. Dan: Yeah, he's trying to tell you to get out. This is my space, Anyway it's all interesting. I keep coming back to the whole concept of the difference between convenience and comfort, and purpose and meaning. Yeah because my limousine company that I have in Toronto oftentimes has these sort of elite lifestyle magazines that advertises places to go and none of the people look happy. Yeah they look true. They look like they look like they've got everything they want, and that hasn't made them happy. You know, they look. They look sophisticated, they're obviously wealthy and they have this, but it hasn't done the trick. You know, it's like models. It's like models you know like in Vogue magazine. Babs gets some of the magazines and the Wall Street Journal once a month has a style magazine that comes with one of the additions and they all look well. First of all, I could draw a thought bubble above all their heads and say what I would give for a burger and fries, right, I mean, they look just, you know, they just look so unhappy and yeah, but they're representing the top of the world in fashion. You know, the elite living there are the top and I said, yeah, but they're, it's absent. It's absent meaning and purpose. You know, you've achieved something but and and people will sacrifice enormous amount of inconvenience for purpose and meaning. So it's an interesting discussion, isn't it? No, I mean, I take it may. I'm not a cutting edge guy with technology, but when I hear enough of other people talking about things that seems to work, I said why don't we just include this? And you know, and. I'm really driven by productivity. I like getting a lot of stuff done easier and faster, you know. But it's the thing that is being achieved, that has meaning and purpose. It's not the means of getting there. So yeah. Dean: I think there's a good, no, it's an interesting this thing is you know, yeah, and we live in totally a lot of the world. Dan: We do. Dean: I think that's part of the thing is maybe the, the harmonizing of that is pointing convenience at the end of comfort or out of purpose and meaning. Yeah, to make speaking purpose and meaning more convenient there, there's a new special on Netflix called Blue Zones and it's yeah observation of Okay talk about it. Yeah, and those things, those people, inevitably. They live very simple lives about much adornment. They've got the if you guy, as the Japanese would say, the purpose, you know the meaning that, the thing that brings them joy, connection to people. They love Community, but that's all. Dan: But if you think of your six Right. Dean: Yeah, they're very simple. Dan: They get rid of the eye. They'd wipe out the eye people really fast. Dean: Exactly. A mill that's 150 years old. Dan: I found from their great great grandmother you know, yeah, yeah, there's a famous temple in Japan. This will be. I have to jump right now afterwards, but there's a temple in that every 20 years it's totally torn down and rebuild again. Okay, and this has been happening now for 2000 years. So every 20, that's 100 times, 100 times, wow, and, and, and they have to find wood that's exactly like the wood you know that, the original or the existing one they have to replace with the same kind of woods. There's no mechanical parts of the temple, it's all done with drilling, with ancient yeah and everything they use now. The light screws, yeah, everything like that, and and an American coming into contact with this experience would say why? Why do you do it? Why don't you do it the next time? Why don't you build something different? You know, and, and I said because they have created enormous meaning and purpose out of something that's always the same. Dean: Yeah. Dan: So you know, convenience is a capability, but it's not the really purpose. It's not the ruling me. Right, convenience is not the ruling me. That's a discussion I like you yeah, I really, of course. Let's have a four C's dual. Let's have a four C's dual one, okay, when you do your first free zone with you and I will have a dual in the front of the room between your four C's and my four C's. Dean: Okay, there we go. I like it. Dan: Well, one of them is the same because we have capability and common, and I think capability is the master one. Dean: Yeah, and you're not. You don't think collaboration there. You're putting collaboration as a capability. Dan: Yeah, yeah, I think the other three are actually, I think capability is the center of your four C's and the other three are enhanced capabilities. Connectivity, collaboration and convenience are always being developed new in the world. I love it All right. Dean: Okay, thank you. Well, always great, dan. I'll look forward to next week. Dan: Yeah, and I'll be on the way home from the cottage next Sunday, so I won't be able to so to be the Sunday after. Dean: Okay, no problem, two weeks Okay yeah. Dan: Okay, okay, okay, thanks have a great time, bye-bye. Okay, bye. Dean: Bye.

In today's episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we unpack the fascinating story of how Toronto transformed over the decades thanks to the pivotal work of urban theorist Jane Jacobs. As we debate whether our growing dependency on virtual spaces like "Cloudlandia" is weakening local connections, we ponder journalism's evolution from its regional roots. We reminisce about bygone media eras over a nostalgic lunch at Table 10 and trace how universities and ideological factions shaped radio's founding. As always, we aim to provide a balanced look at technology's ability to bring people together globally while potentially distancing them locally.   SHOW HIGHLIGHTS The episode begins with a discussion about Jane Jacobs' significant role in preserving Toronto's neighborhoods in the 80s and how it has shaped the city to this day. There's an exploration of the shift to Cloudlandia and how this virtual universe could be curbing our desire to travel and reinforcing local areas. We rewind to the 80s and trace the evolution of regional media landscapes, debating the impact of Canadians having links to Florida and the emergence of new franchise models. Dan and I discuss the rise of Cloudlandia and its impact on our lives, connecting us to the world like never before. The power dynamics in radio broadcasting, specifically AT&T's control of the AM spectrum are examined. We delve into the ideological divide in radio before the advent of the internet, discussing how universities pioneered FM radio, while AM radio was seized by the right-wing. We contemplate the implications of geographical shifts and changing economic patterns triggered by our migration to the cloud. The future of communication and travel is questioned, and whether our lives continue to be dictated by Newton's laws or if we're slowly transitioning into a world governed by Moore's Law. The episode concludes with the hosts suggesting that as the virtual world expands, people may start reinforcing their local areas more, indicating a balance between global and local influences. Overall, the episode offers a thought-provoking journey through changing times, digital landscapes, and the very fabric of our lives. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dean: Mr Sullivan. Dan: Never gonna leave you. Never gonna leave you. Well come here I am. That's one thing about Cloudlandia Once you're in there, you can't leave. Dean: It's so convenient you know it's addictive. It really is. How was your week? Dan: I had a really super week, I have to tell you. I mean it was a four day week because of the holiday. Dean: Yeah. Dan: And it's not so much what I'm doing, that's what the company is doing, and there's just all sorts of independent projects which have been more or less under the surface. You know, there's kind of an interesting woman from the 80s and economist by the name of Jane Jacobs have you ever heard that name? I haven't. Dean: No. Dan: Yeah, and you know, in Toronto, when they stopped the Spadina Expressway. Yeah, I don't know if you remember that. What seems like yeah, well, you know the Allen Expressway. Dean: I do know the Allen. Dan: Expressway. Yeah, that was supposed to be the Spadina Expressway and it went off. It's gonna go all the way down to the center of the city Right, right, right. Right through the center of the city and it would have gone to the Gardner, it would have hooked up and then they would have traded clover leaves down at the bottom. Dean: And they would have had to remove. Dan: They would have had to remove all those neighborhoods. It would have gone right through Forest Hills actually. I think that was part of the reason why it got stopped, because wealthy people have more votes than poor people. I don't know if you've noticed that Not in my backyard Right exactly. And then the other one was the Scarborough Expressway, which you know, the Gardner extension that went out to the beaches. Dean: You know it went out and it was just called the. Dan: Gardner yeah, it's completely gone. They tore that down one night, basically, oh my goodness. We were away for two days and we had it when we left and when we got back it was gone, you know and but that whole area of Lake now from basically charity, erie Streep, actually, you know where the Gardner goes up the Don Valley. Dean: Yes, exactly. Dan: Yeah, well, that's where you took the extension off and they just tore it down. They tore it down in two, two stages, once about 10 years ago, and then they tore it down again, and so, but this was all the 40 year impact of Jane Jacobs, okay, and she said that she had to preserve your neighborhoods if you're going to have a great city and to tear down I mean, and it's turned Toronto into a congestion madhouse. I mean, that's the downside of it, but on the upside of it, toronto you know, toronto tries to call itself a world class city. Have you ever come across that? And what I noticed is that world class cities don't call themselves world class cities, they just are. Dean: New York. Dan: New York doesn't call itself a world class city, it just is. London doesn't call itself a world class city, it just is you know. So if you're still calling yourself a world class city. That means you're not, oh man it's a Toronto life syndrome. I mean Toronto Life Magazine. Dean: Yeah, and they're Toronto, by a magazine. I'm very intrigued, I'm very, I am very intrigued by these micro you know economies, or micro you know global lenses. I guess that we see through and you're not kind of talked about the whether that is. Dan: I'm talking about mainland. This is mainland stuff. Yeah, that's what I mean. Dean: Yeah, and I wonder if that is. I wonder if that sense is diminishing now that we've fully migrated. Dan: No, I think it's okay, I think it's coming back with, with the vengeance actually you know, and my sense is that the week that COVID started in March I think it was March 13th, friday the 13th I remember when it visited itself upon us, when clients were saying you know, we were seeing 50% drop-offs in future attendance for workshops because of COVID and it was partially, you know, but it was the lockdowns, it was the dropping off of airline flights and everything else I remember I mean all our cash flow got taken away in about a month, right Right and we had to switch. We had to switch to Zoom, you know, and and we had about a three month period where we just had to rework our entire you know, our entire business model to take all the in-person workshops and turn them over to Zoom workshops, you know. So, that's the upside of Cloudlandia, is that if they take away your mainland existence, you have to switch to Cloudlandia to compensate, and it's a bigger opportunity, bigger, broader everything. Yeah, but one of the downsides of this is that people don't feel like traveling anymore. Dean: I mean are you talking about me? Dan: No, I'm talking about us and you know. Dean: I know, yeah, exactly. Dan: I'm talking about everyone you meet, you know. Dean: I know exactly. Dan: You know, our only time when we have full attendance during the week, where we have people in the office, is Wednesday, monday and Tuesday, thursday and Friday, or when there's a in-person workshop. You have to be in the, you have to be in the company on workshop days. Okay and so, but the thing, the Jane Jacobs, the people who really got involved with the number one person in Toronto was Cromby, mayor Cromby, and he was one of the forefront leaders in stopping the Spadina Expressway and the Scarborough Expressway. Okay and so I'm just showing you the interrelationship between mainland and Cloudlandia. My feeling is that the more that Cloudlandia expands, the more people go back and start reinforcing their local areas. That's what I wonder about the whole cycle. How's that for a topic that we didn't know about five minutes ago? Dean: Well, exactly, but I think that I think there is something to that. You know, like I look at the, I think I've been I've mentioned before, like without having moved away from Toronto, like coming into Florida and yeah, when's the last time? Dan: when's the last time you flew to Toronto? Yeah, no, it's been three years, and three years, yeah, the next time will be whenever, april, if you April, if you decide you're coming to Toronto 12th of April is the first Toronto oh it's already set, yeah, it takes us about a year, because we've got to guarantee that we've got a date when people can also do their 10 times workshop in person. I got you, okay, yeah, so you know, I mean pre-zoners, double duty, you know, they double. Dean: Yeah, yeah, okay. Well, this is very exciting. So April 12 is on my calendar then, okay. Dan: I'm pretty sure you're taking a statistic from Dan Sullivan here. So yeah, we better double check on this Well, april 12 is Friday, yeah. It's in the calendar and I think the pre-zone is on or the 10 times is on the Thursday. Dean: Okay, so the 11th and 12th. Dan: All right. Dean: Well, now we're talking. Dan: Dan, and then Dan is on the Saturday and that's what I'm most excited about. Dean: Yeah Well, this will be for those who aren't listening. Dan: Table 10 is Dean and I met meeting for lunch on a Saturday, which really got everything we're doing together started was the table 10. Dean: Exactly right. Dan: Yeah, but that's a mainland, that's a mainland reality which may be possible. Dean: Yes, that's exactly right and I think that this now this is where I can, as I've reflected, I look at where I've been spending time, taking snapshot comparisons this week of today and 25 years ago and seeing where we are. You know, if I look at 25 years and 30 years ago kind of thing, I look back at when I started my you know sort of being in the result economy or launched my entrepreneurial career in 1988. So I look at that as coming up on, you know, 35 years. Dan: this year, 35 years, yeah, yeah, and I just want to look from there Well, it's 35 years. Right now it's 35 years. I mean, we're in the 35th year. Dean: So yeah. Dan: And, what's really interesting, our program where we have workshop programs, started in 1989. Dean: So next year is our 35th year you know it's year 35. Dan: So it's the 35th year of the program and I'll be 80 in May and I've been coaching for 50 years in August. Okay. So it's sort of an anniversary year Nashville in May we're going to have our first worldwide conference in Nashville. Coach Coach Con yeah, coach Con, coach Con, yeah, yeah you can take that in two ways. Coach Con. You can take Coach Con in two ways. Yeah, you can. It's the coach conference, or it's just shows you what 35 years of counting people will do for you. Dean: Oh, that's so funny. Well, I'm very excited about both of those. I'm very excited about both of those things. So where I was going was, you know, in 1988, looking back at the things, it was very much a Toronto-centric kind of lens because I had spent. I left Toronto in 1984 to come down to Florida and finish up. I've been spending a lot of time down there. I spent, you know, I spent those years and driving through this I remember the first time driving down on my own. I had a friend with me. But driving down going through the different cities, like going through Dayton, ohio, and going through Cincinnati. Dan: Ninety-five hits in 75. That's what we took. Dean: That's the main route to Florida. That's the main route, exactly, yeah, yeah, you crossed over at. Dan: Detroit. You probably crossed. Did you cross over at Detroit? Dean: We got a tip to cross over at Port Huron, so up further, which was Further north yeah. Dan: Yeah, but then once you were across it was a straight shot superhighway all the way to Florida, and the reason is that Canadians Florida is part of their Canada. Yeah, I mean Ontario. My Florida includesmy Canada includes Florida. Dean: Yeah, exactly that's true, isn't it? It's like the Southern Extension. You've gotten places in or things in Canadians. Have, you know, links to Florida? You're absolutely right, yeah. Dan: Half the Canadian adult population from around November to April. Well, let's say October to April includes Florida, Scottsdale. Dean: I was just going to say that Calgary you look at the other side, then Calgary is. Yeah, calgary is connected to Palm Springs and Phoenix. Dan: Yes, and then Maui, because I don't know what the situation is now, but I suspect they'll go to the part that didn't burn down. Dean: Yeah, but what struck me was the newspapers. So this is, what struck me is the newspapers and television stations, because we would stay, you know on the road. We would Hotels. Yeah, you would stay, yeah, we would stay in a hotel. And so I don't always, you know, get the newspaper. I've had a long time love for USA Today, which I've always kind of loved as just getting a overview of everything. But it struck me how I had grown up with the lens newspaper, lens being the globe and mail, the Toronto Sun and the Toronto Star and looking that, you know, without any sense of left and right leaning. You know, I didn't understand at that point, you know, the bent of and how that shapes things. But, it was amazing to me that I learned I got kind of on that deep level, these regional kind of markets you know I don't know how to fully describe it, but it was an awakening that I knew that, hey, if you've got something you know that worked in, it was kind of like this franchise. I'd be seeing franchise thinking in place, you know, in different places and seeing the Cracker Barrel restaurant. You have the same exact Cracker Barrel experience at any drop off point along Highway 75, you know, and so yeah. Dan: And that was. Dean: Yeah, at the time the thing was I mean in those days it was the new model. Yeah, yeah, for young college students traveling abroad. Right, but it was so great and that level of you know you wouldn't have any window into Louisville, kentucky, unless you're passing through Louisville and you tune in to the Louisville Echo Chamber or ecosystem where you're seeing the. Louisville anchors and the news and the local things, and you're reading the Louisville newspaper, you know. Dan: And then Macon Georgia. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Macon and everything. Dean: Because you usually made. Dan: I always remember that we shot for Louisville or Lexington on the first night. Yeah, lexington, yeah yeah, but we never saw any of the horse farms. Well, you did I mean because 75 went past the. But you never got off. Dean: Yeah, yeah. Dan: You had Oasis which were franchise Oasis. Dean: Yeah, exactly, and that way you know what you're going to. You know what you're going to get you know, but now I see now how those things are like with the rise of Cloudlandia, the access to what's going on a national scale and global scale kind of thing, is what direct to the individual. You know, now you've got access to everything, and I've been. Do you follow or is on your list of news outlets? Do you come to Daily Wire? Is that part of your routine or? Dan: are you familiar with. No, that's not one of my. Dean: Do you know? Dan: about the. Dean: Daily Wire. Dan: I've heard of it, but that's not really what I it's not. Dean: No, I mean I'll look at it. Dan: now that you're talking about it, I'll look at it. Dean: Well, Ben Shapiro is the one who basically I know Ben, he's the guy that started the Daily Wire. Dan: Yeah. I'm a Breitbart guy, I'm a Breitbart guy. I check daily caller town hall Breitbart, you know. Dean: Yeah well, the Daily Wire is now a $200 million. They do $2 million a year now and they just Last year. If you think about the VCR formula. And the reason I'm bringing up the Daily Wire is that is a cloudland-centric, a media empire that was started 100% to be online and took advantage of one. They tapped into Facebook's reach and they funneled those people into get readership and get subscribers to their news service and use that money to buy more attention on Facebook. That was the whole very simple model and they executed it flawlessly. And so they built this huge reach and they had a relationship with Harry's Razors. Do you remember? Dan: Oh yeah, Like Dollar. Dean: Shade Club and Harry's Razors. So Harry's Razors was a big advertiser on Daily Wire, doing very successfully, and then Harry's took exception to some content on the Daily Wire that suggested that men are men and women are women and that would Whoa, whoa, whoa. Dan: That's like touching the third rail of the subway, absolutely. Dean: And they dropped it. They stopped advertising, but what Jeremy Borencher, I think, is the president, who's the CEO of the company what they did was they started on the backs of that company called Jeremy's Razors and they built this whole. They did a whole ad launching the process because it's their own audience. They were already very successfully selling Harry's razors to their audience by letting Harry tap into their reach, and so when Harry's left, instead of looking for somebody to replace Harry's as an advertising partner, they said, well, we'll just make the razors ourselves. And they started Jeremy's razors and now Jeremy's razors is a huge subscription-based company speaking directly to the reach that they've built with the media company. And it struck me that now we're getting to where these very specialized. I don't think we're separating geographically as much as we're ideologically now that there's brands for the right and there's brands for the left and there's you know, there's woke brands and there's I won't say successful brands. Now. Dan: But the. Dean: I mean the writings on the wall. I'll tell you. Dan: I'll tell you. Can I tell you an earlier crossover that? Dean: set that up. Dan: Yeah Well, actually FM radio was technologically possible in the 1930s and 1940s but it was never approved by the FEC until the 1970s. Actually, there was about a 40-year thing where the federal what's the FEC, federal communications they couldn't get it passed for, even though it was available and and but FM is strictly a local radio reach. You know, during the day you can get about maybe 30 miles. You lived in Georgetown, I think, when you lived in. Toronto right. Well you could get CJRT, which was an. FM station and you could, but once you got, let's say, up to Orangeville or Newcastle, you couldn't get CJRT anymore. Okay, Because, FM is gets interrupted by solar energy during the day. Am we? When I was growing up, I could listen to New York, I could listen to Chicago. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Remember you put on a clear night, real clear nights. I could get New Orleans, philadelphia was easy, boston was easy on. Am because it's a different bandwidth, okay, and it doesn't get interfered with by the sun, but the sun won't let FM go further than about 30 or 40 miles. It's not true anymore, because all the FM stations now go on the internet you know, so I have an internet delivery so I can get Los Angeles Jazz Station on, you know, on the internet and they're taking advantage of the internet. But what happened was it was AT&T really controlled the AM spectrum. At&t, yeah, I mean they talked about the dominant technologies. You know Google and Meta and you know and everything they talked about it today. You know Amazon, that nobody, they didn't get up to the knees that the type of control that AT&T had. Okay, and. AT&T didn't want any competition for its AM networks and they came in and the. But because FM is a local, it's you know, it's a region, it's where you are, you get a real. The universities are the ones who started it all. Okay, so in you know, cjrt was Ryerson and the Toronto and everywhere you went, like if you went to Louisville it would be the University of Louisville you know, and and everything else. And so, right off the bat, the ideology of the universities by that time was left. You know, that was where the left wing people you know symphony music and it was, you know, the various FM stations, and they abandoned. Am got abandoned and the right took over AM radio, you know, and Ross Limbaugh was the first person who really took advantage of that, and this was strictly the right side of the political spectrum. Dean: Okay so. Dan: AM talk radio. Am talk radio. The left tried to get into talk radio and nobody would listen to it. Dean: Okay, Nobody so the you know. Dan: And so what happened? You already had that ideological split at the radio stage. Okay, so if you were left wing and you were driving to Florida, you would go from university town to university town and pick up the FM station, but you weren't less than the AM radio anymore. So that was the first split. Before you ever got to, you know, you got to the internet with. That split had already happened in the radio spectrum. Dean: Yeah, amazing. Dan: That was before you were born. Dean: Right, right, right, that's something. Dan: But I mean, imagine something happened in the world before you were born. Dean: It is so funny. But I look at that, you know, and it is like it's amazing to see how this is going, and certainly club Landia is enabling that and my, to bring it all, we're back around to the. What we started talking about with the local, saving the neighborhoods kind of thing is, yeah, I wonder if we're starting to see geography kind of shaping up here, that Florida and Texas are becoming like sort of you know conservative, you know safety and some kind of thing that they're gathering all the people there, yeah, yeah, and they've surpassed New York, they've surpassed New York state, they've surpassed Illinois, they've surpassed California. You know the states. Dan: People are leaving those states and going to Florida and they're going to Texas and so, but I believe in Moore's law, which essentially is the you know, the technological formula that's created Cloud Landia is Moore's law, but mainland is controlled by Newton's law and. Newton's third law I mean Moore's law is that every 18 to two years the computing power of the microchip will double and the price of it will get in half, that's the we've lived in that world for the last 50 years. Dean: And but. Dan: But Newton's law is for every action there's an opposite and equal reaction. Yeah, so if you yeah, so so you got to look at both laws. Dean: And I wonder, you know one law triggers the yeah. Yeah, it is interesting to see the like. I wonder if you were to you know, are we bringing back now? The importance of the local infrastructure, the local like. What is the role of the community now in our lives, in our world? I mean, I feel like I'm it's getting narrower on less and less like inclined to have to travel to other places, and it's funny, you know, I don't know. Dan: Well, I won't travel, I mean, except for my own workshops. I won't travel to business, I won't travel for anything. And you know and I mean all my speeches what I used to give speeches for. Now you know where I would be invited to a big conference and I cut that off in 2013. I just you know, you can have me as a speaker, but it's going to be a podcast at the conference. Dean: Yeah right. Yeah, that's kind of the way I've been doing. Dan: Things too is zooming in as opposed to traveling and flying in yeah, yeah and it's easy because you know you're doing whatever you're doing at the Four Seasons Valhalla and then you're someplace else in the world. Dean: Yeah yeah that's so true right. Dan: Yeah so, but people think that because there's a new realm available that eliminates all the previous realms, but actually just the opposite happens. Dean: Yeah, I posted and it's so. I think about how we really have the ability to be a beacon. You know I'm Jamie Smart. I don't know if you've ever met Jamie? Dan: Yeah, well, I know of him. I know of him, yeah. Dean: Yeah, wrote clarity, just like when we were doing all the big seminars. You know when we stopped doing that in 2009,. That was a big, you know, big shift in our world. You know, in terms of having spent 15 years every single month doing a big event somewhere new. Joe was having a conversation with Jamie about that and he was like because for him it had been even longer, you know, doing that with his identity of being a speaker, going to town and being on stage. And Jamie talked about it as a transition from going from being a torch bearer, where you have to take the torch and go city to city to spread the message, switching to being a lighthouse, where you stay in there and be your light from when everybody comes to you and that was a big shift. And even then, 2009, the Internet was here and all the infrastructure and everything was here, but it certainly wasn't the same place as it is now. Zoom and all that stuff was not yet. Now it's just. I look at it and you start to see, man, there's just so many ways to reach the world from your Zoom room. You can really have a global. There's nothing stopping you from having a global broadcasting center in a 6x6 room in your house. Dan: Yeah, it's interesting. You were very helpful to us because we had that flood in our Fraser Street building. Then we were knocked out. I mean, we had just come back from lockdown, from COVID lockdown, and we got three months in and we had the city water main next to our building when Underground just destroyed our my recording studios, our tech team, where our tech team was, where all of our materials were. But they closed the building down because the city inspectors had to come in and they had to check out. Maybe the whole building had to come down because the support structures may have been weakened and they'll just condemn the building, but we were out for eight months before we could get back in, you know. But, in destroying our recording studio we had a company. Toronto is a great post-production center for the film industry. So it's dependent upon the Canadian dollar. If the Canadian dollar is really weak, film studios in the United States ship their post-production work you know of editing and everything and there's about 15 movie studios, tv and movie studios in the Toronto area, all the way from Pickering to Hamilton. You know these are big studios but they do all their inside. They bring all their inside work to Toronto. And now they're creating actual virtual towns with CGI. So did you catch any of the Jack Reacher series. Dean: I did not. Dan: It was a huge hit. But the town that's depicted where Jack Reacher is, it's a small town in Georgia. The first season was the small town in Georgia. It was one Lee Child book, Jack Reacher, and that entire town was created in CGI, doesn't exactly? That's crazy, right, but when you look at it. And then all the inside scenes were constructed in the film studios. You know the homes and everything like that. But that shows you the relationship between Cloudlandia and the mainland. Okay, because once you cross an international border, you're in a different currency system. Yeah even though I mean digitally. Dean: I mean so many things are possible now. I posted up a video. Dan: The one thing that remains constant is the US dollar Okay. I mean the US dollar. And people say, well, why does everybody use the US dollar? And I said you just answered your question. Dean: It's right there Back up to the first part of your sentence. Why does everybody you know that's like yeah, I mean it's like English. Dan: Why does everybody speak English? I said you just answered your question. Dean: That's like the Yogi Berra Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded right. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah. And so the big thing is that since 1989, the differential the average differential, between the Canadian dollar and the US dollar has been 26% in favor of the American dollar. So we get 80% of the US dollar, it's dollar 36, dollar 36 right now Are you crazy? Dean: Well, that's crazy. So I checked the number. Dan: I checked the number no no, because in 19, it was $5.55. Dean: Oh, wow, yeah, but it's been hanging around in the mid 30s. Dan: 30% now for, I would say, last three or four years it's been you know could be as low as 30% and it got up to 42% per hour, but that so we didn't plan it this way. It was just a lucky break for us that we started in. Toronto, and so 80% of our income is in US dollars, but 80% of our expenses are in Canadian dollars and basically can buy the same thing with a Canadian dollar in Canada as you can with a US dollar in the United States. So we've got we don't have 26% because it's 80%. It's not 100, but we've averaged 20% for the four years we've averaged. So every dollar that comes across it's worth a dollar 20 if it comes across from the United States. Dean: Yeah, right Wow. And that's kind of where we're talking about the infrastructure, you know the infrastructure thing of being able to now, you know, build with a main or a Cloudlandia audience to reach with all the but with the capabilities or the expenses and physical delivery stuff happening in the most favorable, you know, mainland place. And I wonder if that's the opportunity that geographically you know places will get, will become sort of specialist in certain things. Dan: Well, that has been the case actually for the last 30 years. Okay, because of one factor that 90% of global trade, 90% so every day, the all the transactions in the world, it's, like you know, it can be like 4 trillion to 6 and a half trillion every day. The total value of it, well, 85% of it is in US dollars, okay, is in US dollars and all of that is. 90% of all global trade happens on water Is that right 90% of all global interactions and you know the, if you just take a look that it's water travel and that's only safe because of one factor, and that's the US Navy. And since you know since and that was. That wasn't for economic purposes for the US, it wasn't at all for you at. You know the everybody says well, the Americans, you know they just did this for their economic that actually the US. You know how much 10, how much percentage of the US economy is actually involved in cross border trade? 10%. Wow the other 90% is just Americans making stuff and selling it to Americans. So the US really doesn't isn't really that involved in the world but they had a problem after the Second World War and it was called the Soviet Union. And so what they did after the war said you know, we don't want to fight the Russians head on, so what we'll do? We'll just create a great economic deal with every other country in the world that's not communist and we'll promise them that we'll guarantee all their trade routes by water and they can sell anything they want into the US without any tariffs. And it was a great deal. Modern China only exists because the US guaranteed all their trade, and now the US has decided not to guarantee their trade, their water transportation and that's why. China's hit a wall, you know, and, and so I mean. But it's really interesting, dean, you're the one who came up with the cloud land idea on the podcast, and. But what I've been examining more and more is what happened if the cloud, if cloud land idea changes your ability to communicate and travel. You know, physically it's not like the mainland is going to be the same after that. I mean, if you make a change in one realm, it's going to make changes. I think this localization is now the, so if you're globalizing on the one hand, you're localizing on the other because you got a balance. That's what I wonder now, and I don't see. Dean: I'm starting to see like there's some shifts in the way that you know. I think that cities or towns I'm not, I can just speak about for winter, what I'm noticing a lot of development in is winter haven is sort of focused on the downtown, on making that kind of a more vibrant gathering center. It's not, you know, spread out like within strip plazas, like it was in the 70s, and it's not about the mall. Now it's about the downtown and they're taking kind of this ghost kitchen or you know model, but building it around social spaces. So there's two or three now of these developing areas where they've got multiple restaurants in one gathering place, right, so it becomes like a social hub where you can go there and they have live music and people gathering but you can eat at whatever, whatever type of food you want. Dan: So it's not like going inside to ask you a question I mean winter haven is a fairly small geographic area, but are there are there new residents buildings? Going up where these social centers are. Dean: Yeah, see, that's the thing? Dan: yeah, because the internet, you know the interstate highway system had bypassed all the downtowns. Dean: You know back in the 50s the right. Dan: You know the. The interstate highway system in the United States is the greatest public works project in the history of the world. It's about 63,000 miles now and they add about another 500 miles every every year. You know bypasses and connectors and everything like that, so it's a never ending project. But in the 50s it just bankrupted almost every small town in the United States when it. You had to go through the small. We went to Florida in 1956 and it was small town after small town after small town. There was no interstate. 75. Dean: Yeah, wow, yeah, that's kind of like Route 66 was going the cross. Dan: Yeah, yeah, you can still take Route 66, but it's small town after small town, you know yeah yeah, just listen to the words of the, the song you know, route 66 and tell you all the small and none of them were big cities. They were small towns you went through, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, so we're creating an interesting model here that Moore's Law is expanding, you know one realm. But the Moore's Law or Newton's Law says, yeah, if you do that in Cloudlandia, then that there's going to be a decentralization that goes on in the mainland. So winter I mean, you'll probably have people you know more or less spend their life in winter. Hey, winter haven't, because anywhere they want to go else, wise, they'll do it in Cloudlandia. Dean: Yeah, that's what I'm seeing. I just looked up the winter haven in the population right now it's 57,000. Dan: So yeah yeah, and I see you know yeah, yeah, and the interesting thing about the malls, that Mark Mills wrote a great book. Mark Mills is an economist in the Manhattan Institute. I think it's the Manhattan Institute, which, as you the name suggests, is a think tank in New York. City and he writes about the malls. He's got a whole chapter on the malls and he says the malls are going to, they're being abandoned. There's about a thousand failed shopping malls in the United States at any given time. There's about a thousand that have been abandoned. You know they just go bankrupt. And he says they're going to be turned into factories or they're going to be turned into warehouses shipping centers and they're beautiful because they they've got parking for all the work they've already got all the. You know the delivery sites like they have the, the delivering docks you know loading docks, right, the loading that. They've got all the loading docks. They got massive amounts of space and he says that they're going to be robotic and automated factories it's amazing, it's so. Dean: It's such an amazing time to be alive right now. You know, I mean, you think about where, the things that are ready to implement that are all here right now. You know, I don't know that. The next thing, like, as I mentioned, I was doing snapshot comparisons of you know day to day 1988 versus today and, as I said to Stuart Stuart, my operations guy, was with me, we were going, we went to the movie studio movie grill here in about 30, 40 minutes away and I started recounting the day with him, like as we were. I was in these comparisons. I'm saying, okay, so here's how the day started. I him in the morning and said you know, let's go to the movie. I forget what movie was out, but it was a great movie that was had just come out that day or whatever. And so we were going to go for lunch and go to the movie there, because they have Studio Movie Grill is like a dining theater, so you go and they bring food and everything. So started out with the text of that. Then I went to the studio. My video studio recorded a video that I, stuart, and I left. From there I bought the tickets for the movie online through Fandango and, you know, bought the tickets in advance. So we all we had to do was scan the barcode. They just scanned it on my phone when we got there, but the Tesla drove us there using the autopilot function, so we were driven to the movie. We got in our seats without having to go to the thing. We scanned a QR code for the menu of what to get. We pushed a button. They came and took our order, brought us the food. We got back in the car, had the coordinates. The car starts driving us. We were listening to a podcast on the way back and it just in that moment, just that little thing. There's not a single element of that day. That was possible in 1988. Dan: Yeah. I will remind you that in 1988, you probably said what an amazing time to be alive. Yeah, you're probably right. Dean: I mean the dot was like what I got. Dan: Yeah. Dean: I mean look at this. Dan: The fact are you kidding me. Dean: We can send a piece of paper over the telephone. What a relief it comes back. Dan: Yeah, now I'm going to. We've got a mainland collision happening in about five minutes, Okay, okay, and that is from when we started today, the one we finished, because I'm visiting Winterhaven from. I'm in Chicago today, so I'm visiting Winterhaven, florida, from 10 o'clock to two minutes to 11. But in 11,. I have to go to Vienna, Austria, and have an hour's talk with Kim White. Dean: Okay, right, right, right. Yeah, I got to get on the flight to Vienna, right. Dan: Yeah Well, it's a click actually. Dean: Yeah, the zoom I got to get in. Well, I have to switch over. Dan: I have to switch over from my phone to my computer because it's on zoom and anyway, but that I mean what we're seeing here, is you and I are. You know we're early adapters. You know you and I are early adapters, so I say, okay, the world's changed, so how do I have to change? You know, that's my basic response and and all of us got sent to bootcamp for two years during the COVID lockdown. And we might not have chosen the route that we're on right now, but we were forced to. You know we were forced to, right, yeah, you know, I have a goal of never being on welfare during the rest of my life. Okay, yeah, I like to make my own money and everything, but it's an interesting thing. But, more and more, I think that you have to take both Moore's law and Newton's third law into account, because one of them explains the virtual world and Cloudlandia world, but the other one explains what happens to the mainland. When the Cloudlandia keeps getting bigger and bigger, the mainland keeps getting more and more local, like winter. Yeah, so yeah but you gotta you gotta be good at operating in both worlds. Dean: Yeah, you're right. You know I'm staying off welfare, that's well, you know, Dan, there's this little thing. There's a thing called cash confidence, and most people think it's about having an amount of money, but what it's really about is having the ability to create value for other people. So as long, as you keep focused on that, you're going to be just fine. Dan: Yeah. Dean: Yeah. Dan: This is really yeah, and I'm feeling very good going down 80, that I'm starting to get good at living yeah. Dean: So amazing, isn't it? What a world, yeah, the journey. Dan: Yeah. Yeah, Actually you know, the most amazing part of being alive being alive. Dean: Yeah, that is part of it all. That is exactly right. Dan: That is exactly right. Dean: It beats the alternatives you know, and it's funny. Dan: The answer. The answer is in the question. Yeah, I just heard Dion Sanders was talking about how the whole body everything about us is oriented for moving forward and it would be neat if Colorado ends up in the playoffs and the 14 playoffs, oh. Dean: I mean, well, they just beat Nebraska yesterday, so they're two and oh, right now. Yeah, I mean, it's just. It's the most amazing thing to watch. But do you ever think we're meant for moving forward Our eyes, look forward Our ears? Are perfectly positioned to bring us all the sound and everything from in front of us. Our mouth are meant to project forward. There's only one part of our body that points backwards. Dan: And that's the exhaust. That's where, all the way you leave all the way behind you If you keep moving forward. I guess the evolution figured this out a long time ago. Dean: Yeah, a lot of problems. Don't worry about what's happening behind there, don't look back, just keep moving forward. Dan: You know that's in our years of doing the podcast. I think that's the greatest closing statement we've ever had. Dean: Well, it struck me as this that's the first time I've ever heard it explained like that, but it's absolutely true. So that's why it's even more important, to be the lead guy in the line you don't want to be that. Yeah, it's like sled dogs. Dan: Yeah, if you're not with sled dogs. If you're not the lead dog, the future always looks the same. Dean: Oh man, what a day. All right. Well, you have my best. We've got a date, we've got a date next. Dan: If you're up to it, we've got a next Sunday. Dean: Oh yeah, I'm in Chicago today. Dan: So I'm in Chicago today, so I'll be back in Toronto next week. No, it's a permanent fixture in my calendar. Dean: All right. Dan: Thanks a lot, Dean. Dean: Thanks. Dan: bye, bye.

This week, I'm running back an interview with another one of the most popular episodes we ever did with KevOnStage from early 2022. KevOnStage (Kevin Fredericks) is a comedian, producer, director, and entrepreneur behind KevOnStage studios.  Today's episode talks about how he built an independent brand that really paid off his hard work. He established a solid fan base, had millions of followers on social media, and monetized these platforms by producing his hilarious viral content, a total blast in the mainstream.Listen as we talk about what's going on in his business and his independent success, turning rejection into a massive opportunity to be where he is now.Episode Highlights[01:56] What KevOnStage is currently working on[04:49] His take on more black content going in the mainstream[06:53] KevOnStage's motto, his marketing strategy, and business goals[11:57] What it's like to have autonomy in his brand[19:08] His thoughts on artists knowing their audience and dealing with critics[21:30] What's the process from the stuff put out on socials versus onstage[25:24] How does he approach his game using different social platforms[32:38] What's something beyond just the monetary gain that makes him want to continue to feel inspired to create content[35:13] His opinion on creators who are a one-platform-dominant[38:21] Where does his most lucrative income come from [41:57] How he diversify his content to own the media and make his brand stand out[45:51] What would he like to be doing more of[51:28] KevOnStage's new content to watch out forListen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuest: KevOnStage StudiosThis episode is sponsored by DICE. Learn more about why artists, venues, and promoters love to partner with DICE for their ticketing needs. Visit dice.fmTrapital is home for the business of hip-hop. Gain the latest insights from hip-hop's biggest players by reading Trapital's free weekly memo. TRANSCRIPTKev: So, sometimes partnering is great, sometimes licensing is great, sometimes selling is great sometimes. A good business person takes the best deal for what they need to get done.(intro)Dan: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level. Today's guest is KevOnStage, the comedian, producer, director, and entrepreneur behind KevOnStage Studios. I've been following KevOnStage for years now. I think he's one of the funniest people on the internet so it was so good to have this conversation. We talked about how he's built his business and everything that he has done from how he creates content, how he thinks about what platforms he prioritizes, how that then provides insights for what he creates for his longer form content, what gets created from KevOnStage Studios, and, ultimately, the type of opportunities that he can offer for other creators and other entertainers that want to do, in many ways, largely the type of thing that he's done. And we talked about where his streaming service sits in this ecosystem of the Netflixes and the Hulus and, in a lot of ways, even though those streaming services may have their black voices tabs, that's not quite the type of content that is what Kev is making so he's really finding his niche, doubling down there, and how he uses the insights from that to infer what gets made, that is how many creators have been very successful so so much of that is very relatable. This is also probably one of the interviews I've laughed in the most. He's hilarious, like I said. This is a great conversation. I really hope you enjoy it. Here's my chat with KevOnStage.(interview)Dan: All right, we got my guy KevOnStage here. Kev, you are one of the busiest people that I'd seen from 2021. Now we're next year, man. How you feeling? Fresh year, how is it?Kev: I'm excited, man. We've got a lot of new things we're working on. I'm really excited, man. It's always fun to be at the beginning of a project, not knowing where it's going or how far it may go and that's kind of where I am now. All the things I'm like, “Oh, soon as I get back, soon as I get back, I'm gonna start working on that.” That time is here now so I'm really excited.Dan: That what's up. Because I feel like for you, you got a few things that are already in motion that have been working well. Your content's good. You got that machine going. But the Studio, I feel like that's the really exciting thing that's been growing.Kev: Listen, man, I'm working on my own flywheel, okay? Westbrook, they got their flywheel, fast IP, that was the best graphic I've ever seen that you made. Dan: Oh, thank you. Kev: I was like, “This is what I wanna do. I wanna do everything from Instagram videos to selling shows.” So, you know, and they all have their own value so that's what's exciting. I have the same amount of joy from making a funny reel like I posted of Angel falling in the challenge show, it was just — I spent 20 minutes on that, really just getting the fall right. And then I came here, you know, I went on location scout right before I came here to this new show we're working on and then this podcast, like they're all exciting for different reasons so I'm trying to enjoy it all. Dan: Yeah. I think the cool thing with that, you get to wear multiple hats and I know, with this, there's a number of things that interest you about this, right? Like you enjoy comedy, you have that piece, but I also know that you like to put people on. You wanna use your platform to do that. So I feel like you being able to wear each of those hats and do those things gives you that opportunity to provide all of that.Kev: Absolutely, man. I think there's the old saying of the church, “We're blessed to be a blessing,” and that's kind of what I wanna do. People have given me opportunities, partnerships with, you know, people have helped lift me, and I just wanna pass along the same thing. For me, my platform isn't about me shining alone, you know what I mean? I tell my friends all the time, I want us all in the gated community. One things I used to do at all deaths that I found a lot of joy in was give people their first great reel or first time directing or whatever and I found that I had as much joy doing that as making somebody laugh. And KevOnStage Studios is really just a more expensive version of that. So, we wanna give people their first time PA-ing or help you get into the wardrobe union or makeup union. It's hard for black people to get into those places but we need black people in those spaces so that's kind of what we're working towards doing. And then even simple things like our editor, one of our editors likes improv so it's like, “Hey, you wanna be in an episode?” Things like that are great too because I want people to be able to scratch their own creative itch and that's kind of what my passion is. Dan: What I like about KevOnStage Studios is that, sure, I think there's a lot of attention right now with, “Oh, there's so much black content out there on your Netflix,” your this and this, but what you're doing is like you're saying, that's true to an extent but it really isn't true for a lot of the people that I think could have the opportunities to be put on in this era.Kev: Yeah. I was just watching Abbott Elementary this morning where I was shaving and I was just like, man, this show is amazing, and to see somebody like Quinta Brunson who — my first time seeing her was on Instagram. Her “Girl who's never been on a nice date, a large, he must got — he got money. He could —” like from that to a network sitcom. And even shows like South Side, which I don't know their story as much, but the show is amazing, that's great. But then there's a lot of creators who have those similar ideas and absolutely no path to HBO, Comedy Central, ABC, Netflix. Even me, like I've pitched to a lot of people and I had a lot of, “Uh-huh, we'll circle back.” And, you know, that was 2018, '19, you know, pandemic killed off anything I had going in Hollywood so I want to be that same network for people who can't get all the way to Hollywood, you know, like here's your chance to get to, you know, Hollywood adjacent — North Hollywood, if you will. You're right over the hill, you just — you know, it's cheaper in North Hollywood. You know, there's more taco trucks, you know? And your number 15 minutes of real Hollywood, you know, that's what KevOnStage Studios, it's the North Hollywood of Hollywood. We're right there. We're right there. But it's a one-bedroom washer and dryer stacked, you know?Dan: Exactly. Kev: That's a leg up from having to go to a laundry mat. Dan: Yes, that's true. It's true.Kev: Stackable's good, man. I'll take a stackable.Dan: Right, right. It's one of those things, right? It's like location and all that, you can't pick everything with these things. You can pick two, and, Kev, you're gonna give them two.Kev: Laundry is a huge plus. Location and a stackable, I'm like, “Bet, let's do it.” Dan: Well, I think the good thing with it is that — because I know in past interviews, you've talked about, hey, with this model, this is something you wanna provide the opportunity. But from a business perspective, I know that it's not something that you necessarily need like a ton of subscribers to reach some point or you're not trying to reach like Netflix scale necessarily, it's something that can sit beside that. But with that, I'm sure you also have goals from the business side as well as the impact side with the service. So, what does that look like from a streaming service perspective?Kev: Yeah, that's a great, great question. It's like — I heard this example somewhere. They're like, you know, somebody's saying you're not gonna beat Walmart at selling everything at a low price, right? They're gonna beat you if you're starting out. What you can beat them at is selling a lot of one thing, right? Because they sell so many things for a low price, they can't sell a lot of any one thing so they're gonna have, you know, maybe one or two black shaving kits, maybe Bevel and maybe one other thing. If you have a black beauty supply store, people are gonna be like, “Well, Walmart doesn't have what I'm looking, here I can go get some weave, you know, a do rag, I can get Bevel, I can get seven other, I get essential oils, I can get Dixons,” you know?So that's our motto, like we're not — Netflix has an $8 billion content budget. They made Squid Game to Red Notice with the Rock — we can't compete with that, right? But they don't have black people learning how to play spades. They don't have that video. They don't have, you know, the Real Comedians Challenge Show, they don't have things like that, right? So we wanna over serve a population that is being served by Hollywood but it's not the primary focus, you know what I mean? Right now, we're in an area of, we're sorry, black people Hollywood, like, man, we really discriminate against you guys for a long time and you guys caught us out on it. So we're reaping the benefits of all that, you know, time where we weren't, you know, getting our just due. But even then, there's still so many other shows that can't be made to this audience and that's kind of what we wanna fill. We wanna make stuff for black people who don't see themselves on Netflix, you know? This church show that we're working on, you know, is for black people who grew up in the church from a point of view of somebody who also grew up in the church and worked in the church, like if you grew up in the church like me, you know, there's never really been a true church show from people who grew up in there. There's people who attended but not people who like worked in ministry, and Netflix might not see the value in making a show like that and that's where we come in, and we wanna serve that audience. All that content where they can't get it on Netflix. And also I'm not even saying you don't have to have Netflix, like I ain't gonna lie to you, Dan, I watch my Netflix, I watch Hulu, HBO Max, like as a consumer, there's stuff that I wanna watch too, like Game of Thrones one through four. Dan: Yeah, one through four. One through four.Kev: One through four. Insecure, like all those shows. Of course we're not even here to say “Don't watch Netflix” and “Boycott Netflix” like I won't even ask you to do that because I'm not gonna do that. But, you know, sometimes you want a nice steak dinner at a five-star restaurant, sometimes you just want a taco truck, you know, and you can't get that experience. When you really want a street taco or the corn man selling elotes, you know, a big steak dinner is not gonna do it. So that's all we wanna be, man. We just a little taco truck on the street, man, just pull up real quick, get you three little tacos, you know what I'm saying? Some Jarritos and a little elote and go on about your way. You're not gonna bring your wife here to propose to her. But if you're in between work, you know, this Kevin taco, that's KevOnStage Studio, just a little street taco place on the side.Dan: Right. And then with Netflix too, that's the place that has all the good ratings of the people that know what's up.Kev: And that's the thing. You know, somebody gotta tell you about this place. “Hey, man, you gotta go over there. Trust me.” And when you — and that's kind of how we're growing, right? We don't have the marketing budget like Netflix, right? When Netflix came out, yet get three months free, a year free. They had billboards and buses in Times Square. We don't have that.Our thing is like, “Yo, there's this funny show on this network called KevOnStage Studios, you gotta check it out.” Or you see a funny clip on TikTok and you wanna see the rest of the video, that's our marketing right now. Word of mouth, your boy telling you, your girl telling you, or you seeing a clip and you wanna see more.Dan: Right. I think I heard you made the analogy once of the Sally's Beauty Supply as opposed to, you know, what you may see at the traditional place like a Walmart, right? And I think even with that, it's like, you know, from a haircare perspective, you know what, yeah, Walmart may have that can of Sportin' Waves but I may want something a little more serious if you wanna make sure the wave's spinning, right? You gotta get something a little —Kev: Absolutely. They might just have Sportin' Waves but they're not gonna have Murray's, they're not gonna have Sulfur8, Just For Me, they might just have one thing. And that's kind of, yeah, that's exactly what we wanna do here, man, and we're having a good time doing it.Dan: That's great, man. That's great. I think that, in a lot of ways, like we were saying before, that's how you identify the elements of your flywheel and where everything sits and how you're able to foster not just your platform but the other opportunities and what I think it does at the end of the day, it narrows in, okay, what is the KevOnStage brand? What does it stand for? And what type of opportunities you can create from that? Because I feel like with you specifically, you've now kind of hit this mode where I know you mentioned that, you know, you were knocking on the door of many folks in Hollywood or anywhere else and they weren't necessarily letting you in, but now I feel like you're kind of at this stage where you are doing well for yourself given everything you've built up independently.You're now able to leverage things. As you mentioned yourself, you got that Maserati, like you're — like you're showing from that perspective, right? But you got those things. I'm curious, though, because I know that — and as you know, definitely you have broken down a lot of the levels of what creators are and the creator economy and all those things, at this stage, you really do have the autonomy if you wanted to, okay, at this stage, would I wanna ever do some type of partnership or deal with one of these bigger distributors that are always trying to offer comedians or creators like yourselves the serious bag, but I'm curious from your stage right now, like is that something that would still entertain you? Like is that something that you would ever do?Kev: I thought about it and it depends and I'll tell you why. One of the best parts about being at KevOnStage Studios and not having to answer to a network is not having to answer to a network. If I wanna make a show, if I wanna cast whoever, no name or whatever, I don't have to have anybody else say yes, you know, or no, right?One thing is, you know, I learned when I shot my first pilot that a network paid for, when they pay for it, what they say goes, right? So in this instance, they were like, “Take this joke out and this joke out and this joke out,” during the notes process and then when we shot it, they're like, “This isn't funny. This is not landing. We don't think black people are gonna get this” so we took all that stuff out, even though we were fighting for it, at the end of the day, they won because we were small and we didn't have as much power in the room, and at the end of the day, they passed on it because they said it wasn't funny enough. We were like, “Well, you took everything funny out. How could it be funny?” So, you know, when you're first starting out, the network has all the power because I'm not Denzel or Shonda Rhimes. If I got an opportunity, they're gonna tell me what it is, and fight as I may, it's gonna be what they say. But here, we can make what we want to make and I think that autonomy is very freeing and it allows me to make what I know is good and funny. Like one of the things that I pride myself on is knowing my audience and what they will like and all that stuff. And, you know, even when I do like brand deals, you know, especially early on, I would have less power and I would have to basically say whatever the brand said and it would come out corny, and I'd be like my audience would hate it and they could smell the fakeness from a mile away. As I've grown. I've been like, “Hey, I'm gonna tell you right now that's not gonna work. Trust me, let me do it this way and it always goes over better.” So, in that instance, I love the autonomy. However, if we were able to partner with someone, it allows us to make things at a greater scale and provide more opportunities for other people and do things a lot easier. You know, everything we do now, we gotta figure it out, you know, when your mom came home, the kitchen bare, the cupboard's bare, she's like, okay, we got two chicken thighs, some corn, you know, some breadcrumbs, make something work. That's where we're at, you know what I'm saying? At the end of the day, you're like, “Hey, low key, that was kind of fire for what we had,” but you'd also love to just go to the grocery store and get everything you want. So, right now, I'm loving the freedom, but as we grow, I wouldn't say no to an opportunity to do more and maybe employ more people for certain projects. I don't think there's ever a world where everything I do, I answer to somebody. I always want to be able to create something that I want to create without having to answer to anybody. But, you know, if Warner Brothers said, “Kev, we're gonna offer 140 million to develop some stuff,” well, yes. Yes, I would — I'll take a little 140 mil, yeah.Dan: Right, right. And that's the thing, right? It's like you have the clear strategy and from an overall perspective, it sounds like, hey, I know that overall deals are the wave, that's not necessarily what I'm looking for. However, if that number is right, I'm not gonna not have the conversation. We're going to talk about itKev: Absolutely — like look what Tyler Perry did, right? And I've watched his career and tried to mimic it to the best of my ability, which I haven't done that well yet. But, you know, still working. But, you know, he leveraged the early Lionsgate deals into his own pocket, like, you know, he partnered with them and they were able to finance those movies and he did X, Y, Z, boom, boom. And then the capital that he got from that, he was able to finance his own shows. So sometimes, partnering is great sometimes, licensing is great sometimes, selling is great sometimes. A good business person takes the best deal for what they need to get done, right? So I wouldn't say that, you know, part of our business model is if I can make a show, you know, at our margins and I can license it to you in the first window, I can make a great margin there and now I've done two things, I've made the show and I made the show I want and I might, you know, right now, there's a lot of, you know, places that have more distribution than we do so if you wanna take it off our hands, we made our money back and you wanna, you know, stream it, then you've just introduced a lot more people to KevOnStage Studios and they can come back to the app and watch the other stuff we've made. So that's definitely part of our plan and that would help us make more shows. So even if we sold that one and they own the rights to it, I wouldn't cry because we can make eight more shows with what we sold that one for. So it's about making the right business, you know, choice at the right time and not being like, “I wanna own it all,” like, I mean, obviously, I wanna own it all but that also comes with its own risks, which means you have to finance it all. And if it sucks, you've lost everything, you know? Everything you spent. So that's a risk that you don't want to have to take every time, you know? Sometimes, you wanna take it when it's near and dear to your heart, but not — every time? You wanna reach into your own pocket every time? You know? Not every time. So, yeah, we're always keeping our options open to the right partnership whenever that may come.Dan: Yeah, I think that's the healthy and best way to look at it, because as both of us, people that spent a lot of time on Twitter, we know how big — everyone wants to own everything, right? But until you're actually in it, you don't realize how much nuance there is with all of that and I really look at these things as a spectrum, as you do, and I think the best people have a mix of both of these things. And like you said, I know that, you know, you mentioned Tyler Perry as a model, the same way that you know how to create this content and do it at a way it's affordable, that's essentially what he did with like Meet the Browns, right? Boom, let me go sell this to TBS and now we got cable distribution for however many years, you know, he's been doing that.Kev: Absolutely, and hardly anybody in Hollywood could shoot at the rate he shoots at. So his margins are much lower than a traditional network or even cable. So I mean, you know, Tyler, you see articles, they shot 20 episodes in six days —Dan: Wild.Kev: — nobody would even attempt that, you know? And BET was like, yeah, we'll take more. We'll take whatever you got. So, for him, he knows his audience, he knows his business model, he knows it works. Critics don't stop what he's doing. And the numbers reflect that he's doing the right thing. People criticize, come what may, but when them numbers come out, people are watching. So that's one thing I've been thinking a lot about is like, especially if you're on Twitter a lot, everything sucks, everybody hates everything, there's nothing good, everybody's wrong. But at the end of the day, somebody is watching that. So, you know, we'd be on Twitter trashing everything but somebody likes that show and they're watching it weekly. So, Tyler's learned to focus on those people who are enjoying it and tuning out people who don't enjoy because they're not — they don't help his plan and that's kind of what we're doing here. Like we're not trying to make everything for everybody. We're trying to make a lot of stuff for the people who want to watch it. And then you grow, the same thing Tyler did, you have your base, you cater to that base, and you grow that base.Dan: Yep. Kev: And if you do that, I mean, that's tried and true. Like we were talking about earlier, you don't need a lot of followers, you don't need a whole bunch of people. You need people who are really excited and who want to come to your live show and buy a t-shirt, to support your Patreon, and get your app, you know? There's so many creators with millions of followers but not a lot of active fans so when they try to go on tour or sell a t-shirt, people are like, “No, man, we don't — we're not — you know, post the thing on Instagram I like.” Dan: Right.Kev: But I wanna do this. No, no, no. So I learned a long time ago, it's better to have 500 really active fans than 5 million people who kinda like your stuff.Dan: Definitely. And I feel like, with you, you've been able to see that in real life, like you are going on tour, you're seeing these people in person, you're getting all those reactions too. And you mentioned earlier about just insights and you being able to see what works and what doesn't and I wonder, how much of that is based on just the feeling of, “Okay, this piece or this post really took off and then I'm gonna try to incorporate that into something,” or how much of it is also, you know, data driven as well where you're looking at things, you know, precisely and you're like, “Okay, like if I'm spending this much time here,” what's that process like, you know, from the stuff you put out on socials versus what you may do on stage?Kev: That's a great question. For socials, the one thing I've learned about the internet is I don't know anything about the internet. What goes viral? What works? Man? My best TikTok is me holding my son's dog and talking about how black people —Dan: Oh, does your dog know if you're black? Kev: Does your dog know you're black? If you're Mexican, does your dog know you're Mexican? If you're white, does your dog know you're white? That didn't take a lot of thought. I literally was at home and he was about to get into something, I was like, and then I was like, I wonder if he knows that means stop in black, you know what I mean?And then I wondered if a Mexican family has their own version of that. I just threw that up and it had — it's got like 2.6 million views on TikTok. That is not the funniest video, it's not the most relatable, it didn't even do that well on Instagram or Twitter or whatever. I just throw it up against the wall. I let the internet decide what's funny or not and I know some things tend to do well more than others. Any culture messing with black food in a way that's not traditional, you mess with macaroni and cheese, it's gonna get a lot of views, right? But, you know, I was making a lot of those food videos and then people were just — like I was getting every food video so I was like, okay, as a creator, even if it does get a lot of views, I don't wanna be the food guy and I don't wanna keep making the same video. So, part of my strategy is I make something that is funny, make something that's relatable, or make something that I just think is funny. Or if I got nothing of that, then I'll share another creator who's funny. There's been some days where I'm like, “Man, I don't feel funny today,” and I'll see somebody else's video, I'll be like, well, let me just share their stuff because there's nothing I can do that's as funny as this. So, you know, and I share and tag them and then I'm like, even if I didn't make something funny, I fulfilled my promise to introduce you to new creators. So that's kind of my strategy. And I just also am very consistent. Even if I don't think the video's great, I still post it because what's great to me and what's great to somebody else is very different. I've had a lot of videos that I think they're hilarious that did absolutely nothing. And a lot of them, like my dog video that I didn't think nothing of and just threw up, that went viral. Like I made this waffle house video probably four or five years ago, I mean, I was on my way to work, I was like, you know, I saw this article, it said Waffle House is dirty. And I'm just like nobody who eats at Waffle House cares about that. Dan: Right.Kev: We know. That video went stupid viral. I mean crazy. And I didn't even — it took less than 5 minutes total. Shoot, edit, post. And I did it — I wouldn't advise this but I shot the whole thing on the freeway. I was driving to work, I always had my phone in my rearview mirror thing, hit record, said what I had to say, turned it off. When I got out of my car, I edited it, put the article next while I was walking to work. That thing went crazy. Didn't think nothing of it. Just threw it up and so many people, that's how they got introduced to me. So, you know, what do I know? I've been doing this 10 years now pretty consistently. So many things went viral that I would have never done. And, you know, that's the nature of the internet.Dan: Right, it's like you know that there's generally a type of content you put out that's going to work, you put it out there and you just know that something's gonna hit. It may not always be what you think is gonna hit, but you put it out there, for sure.Kev: Absolutely, man. Let the people decide what's fun. I mean, I did one video where I was yelling at my son, I use the term loosely, 'cause he had gotten good grades. It did like 7 million views on Twitter, 6, 7 million views, and I was just like, kids, puppies, they're gonna work every time. So, you know, I try to exploit my dog while he's still small. I don't exploit my children as much. But the dog, he don't even know how many videos. He does well. He's earning his keep in the Fredericks household. Dan: One of the things I also, you know, like about how you approach your game is that you look at each social platform differently and you also know how to move to things, right? Like you know that Twitter is quick. You're gonna — that's gonna be the one that's most current about things. But I know you've also put a lot more time into TikTok and just given, I think we saw the recent stats that TikTok, people spending more time on that now than Google, you know, you gotta be early on a lot of these platforms to rise. But there's also things like Clubhouse, for instance, where, you know, I think things rose and then, you know, it dipped and I'm curious, how do you approach that? Like do you know that there's certain ones where you're like, “Okay, there's something here, let me double down here,” like what's your method for that type of thing?Kev: You have a lot of good questions, man. This is why you — you should do a podcast, maybe a newsletter as well about hip hop and entertainment. What I try to do, one of my, you know, things that I've noticed works well is using a platform how that platform was designed to be used. So Twitter, the best thing is tweeting, like writing, like writing out funny tweets, whether you're trending, relatable, whatever. I post my videos — the only reason I post my videos on Twitter is because people would rip my videos and post — because videos didn't do well on Twitter for me for a long time and the only reason I posted on there now is because people would rip my videos and post them and they'd do better on Twitter than I ever would have thought,so I was like, well, nobody's gonna be getting them if I'm not gonna get them. But as far as TikTok, I always try what's new incoming. I've tried, I mean, Vine. You want to talk about the worst creator ever on Vine? Kevin — I mean, I couldn't get Vine to work for nothing. I made a Vine one time, Dan, and I'm lucky you can't find it. And I was like making toast and I put a piece of bread in the oven and then the Vine cut and I had like half a second left and I was like, “Burnt,” and it was just a piece of burnt bread. And I was like, I don't — I'm gonna stop doing this. This is literally the worst Vine ever. I tried Socialcam, Periscope, Clubhouse, spaces, Fleets, Stories, Snapchat. I've tried everything. Part of it for me is like, let's talk about TikTok, for example. TikTok was a new — there were so many fun ways to edit on there, editing was more seamless, they had all those backgrounds. So, as a creator, it was just fresh. But anytime children are using something, the user base is gonna grow. And I think TikTok used to be Musical.ly and I remember my niece was on Musical.ly a long time ago so my strategy is always dip my toes in the water, see what works, find out how that platform works specifically. I realized what I learned about TikTok is you gotta be even quicker than other places on TikTok. I'm talking about people are scrolling like almost like this. You got like maybe 6, 7 seconds on Instagram, you got like 2.3 on TikTok and you can buy 3 seconds if you put the caption. It took me a long time to realize you had to write the caption on the video because people are not looking down to, I believe it's the left to see what you're saying so you gotta figure out, stop their system for one second and say when this be like or baby like or whatever. That's step one and now you might have their attention. Using whatever trend is popping or whatever music is popping, now that's step two. Now, you got them for 7, 8 seconds, now you may have a chance. But almost all of these platforms are, “Is it funny? Is it entertaining? Is it educational? Or is it relatable?” If you're doing one of those of the four, you'll be better off, but like I was a long winded person so I was on Periscope early and I stayed for a long time and I have so many of the people who are now on the Stage Crew is what we call our group of fans are — I used to go on Periscope every day while I drove to work. I was stuck in traffic for an hour and a half, I'd be on Periscope for an hour. And I just chopped it up. I've seen video ideas. And so many people loved it and they stuck with me for a long time. And another thing I do, I know I'm just rambling, I test out concepts on platforms, right? So I'll tweet something and if that tweet does numbers, then I'll be like, “Bet, I'll make a video of that.” Like, for example, Uberfacts tweeted, “What's —” This is a trend maybe last week. Uberfacts tweeted, “What's a company's secret you can spill now that you don't work there anymore?” and I was like, oh, I worked at the bank. I quote tweeted, “The bank does actually overdraw you on purpose,” like a lot of people used to accuse us of that and we would have to lie but they actually do it on purpose. It had like 26,000 retweets so I'm like, okay, that's great, that means people are interested. Now let me screenshot that, go to TikTok, and make the talking version of that. And then I put that video on TikTok, did well. Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, did well. And then a couple of days later, I put the video version of a tweet that went viral right back on Twitter with my own tweet and it also went well. And I'll do that all the time. If I'm not sure video work, I'll post it on my stories and I'll check the engagement. If I get over 50 shares or 100 shares, I'm like, “Oh, I'll take that off and put it on the main grid.” Sometimes I'll make a full video. So I'm kinda like seeding out content and seeing what people respond to and then deciding if I wanna make a full video after that. I have to do that now because I'm doing other projects. I used to just scour the internet for videos all day but because we're making stuff for the app and stuff, I don't have as much time so I'm kinda like throwing stuff against the wall, seeing what works, and then making full versions of that. And that's kinda how I continue making content consistently while I'm really spending more time creating long-form content, where I'm on set 10, 12 hours a day. I just don't have the time to be on the internet like I usually was so I've gotta like be more strategic about doing it.Dan: That's your fastlane IP model right there. You just broke it down.Kev: Yeah. Absolutely, man. I'm just always moving in there. And my hope, one day, I wanna be like — do you remember, DC Young Fly early? He used roasting to rise him to fame and then he leveraged that into other stuff. Now he can use social media just to remind you of what he's doing. One day, I'll be able to be like, “Oh, my social media is just to remind you of what's coming and going.” Or like Kevin Hart, like he'll still come on every once in a while and remind you he's hilarious on social media but he doesn't need it as a vehicle as much as he used to. That's my goal, when I can go a week or a month without making something funny, and people still are checking in. But I'm probably a little ways away from that.Dan: What do you think that would look like to get there? Like is there a particular number or do you feel like it's like a feeling of where you are in your career?Kev: I think — what it really will probably be is when I'm shooting so many things that take up my full day, when I'm shooting 10, 12 hours on set, it's really hard to make a great internet video that day, because I'm not on the internet because I'm shooting. When I'm on break, I might be scanning but, you know, the lunch on set is 30 minutes, if that, feels like. By the time you sit down and eat and then you're back on set for 6 hours. If I was doing that for three months, it'd be tough to make the same amount of content that I'm making. So if I was basically doing those kinds of projects back to back, then I know my social media will suffer in the sense of creating at the pace I usually did. My only hope is that the monetary benefit from my other projects will, you know, keep me afloat. I mean, obviously, I don't make crazy money, well, relative, from the actual platform, it's all about leveraging them to make money off the platform. But, you know, we still get paid from Tik— I mean, not TikTok, I mean, technically TikTok but I make no money off that. Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube so my hope is that I've got so many projects that I'm making, either from my own distribution service or for somebody else or a partner or something we've sold, that I'm like, “Man, I'm making too many things, I don't have time to like see what the TikTok trend is.”But, honestly, Dan, I like making videos so much. If I was on my lunch break, scanning through TikTok, I will make a video, because it doesn't take me that long. My best skill isn't funny, isn't being hard working, it's efficiency. When I'm inspired, I can download, shoot, and post in no time. And TikTok, God bless them, so happy you can just click download for most videos. Don't make me go through screen recording and down— that's too much. You want people to share these anyway, make it easy. So, I can do a whole thing in less than 5 minutes so as long as I got 5 minutes, I'll probably make something.Dan: Yeah. I feel like that's what drives it at the end of the day, right? Like there has to be something beyond just the monetary gain to make you wanna continue to feel inspired to create and that's great that you have that still with the videos. I mean, I definitely sense that from the joy and passion that you share out of it, but I think for a lot of people that do create content on the internet and then that is the awareness they build to sell elsewhere, they ideally would just love to sell the other thing but the internet feels like this thing that they have to do. So the fact that you don't feel that, I mean, I'm sure it's still exhausting, for sure. But the fact that you don't feel that naturally, I think, is what helps that longevity.Kev: Absolutely. I think, you know, we all deal with like burnout or not feeling funny or feeling like I'm never gonna come up with any other idea. But I see the value in using these platforms but also leveraging them to your own stuff, like being an early YouTube creator when adpocalypse happened and Logan Paul did that suicide forest thing and everybody's monetization was punished, that's the first time I was like, “Oh, snap. I didn't even have nothing to do with this. I never been to Japan. I would never. Why am I getting punished?”That's the first time I was like, “I can't rely on these platforms,” and then when Vine came and went, even though I sucked at Vine, there was a lot of people where they depended on Vine and, luckily, most of the creators who were big leveraged that to Snapchat or Instagram or YouTube but some of them never even got close to the heights that they had on Vine. And the same thing happened on Instagram or TikTok or whatever. You know, a lot of people are one platform dominant, killing it on TikTok but nowhere else big. I would rather be five platforms doing okay than one platform dominant because now I can go from TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, into my own platform, Patreon, which is fantastic. It's very important to what we do here. If I only had Patreon, I'd be okay. So, you know, I've kind of like made my exit strategy because the Internet changes too quick, you know? One day it's popping — Clubhouse, man, people were — it was the thing for like 5 months and then everybody — it felt like everybody was just like, “Nah,” like one day, and it's still there, it still have great stuff going on there, but during the pandemic, man, it launched — or not launched but it popped at a perfect time when everybody was at home. Dan: Right. Kev: But then people just got sick of people talking and Facebook came up with their own one and Twitter came up with their own one and then Clubhouse didn't have, you know, that exclusive thing anymore. I mean, that's — you talk about a quick pivot. Dan: Yeah.Kev: You know, Clubhouse, how quickly Twitter jumped on that, that was fast. It took Instagram a long time to copy Snapchat. Dan: Yeah, and —Kev: It took Twitter, it felt like 2 months before they had —Dan: Yeah, Spaces was quick.Kev: I was like, Jesus, and the thing that Facebook did really well is kind of what Twitter did too. They said, “We're not gonna beat Snapchat's market share, and we don't have to. All we need to do is slow their growth and get somebody who was never gonna go to Snapchat to do what they would have done on Instagram.”My wife is that person. She never went on Snapchat ever. But they took that idea and that, you know, Stories, put it in Instagram, and she was like, “Oh, I'll do this.” And I was like, “Girl, I've been telling you about Snapchat.” She was like, “I'm not downloading no more apps.”And that's the same thing. So you — that's why I never wanna be one platform dominant because the winds, they blow and change too quickly and you could be caught in the cold, you know? Like YouTube, man, YouTube decided on a whim, it felt like, family content, if it looks like it's geared towards kids, you're not gonna be able to monetize that. People went from making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month to zero. When they decided they didn't want pranks anymore, people went from making 50 grand, 150 grand a month to like literally zero, I'm not even exag— I know people who had to give up their house in the Hollywood Hills when YouTube was like, “We're not doing that no more.”And that's when I was like, “Oh, this is too dangerous to be only on one platform.” You gotta use them all but you also have to have an exit strategy. To me, you know? Everybody doesn't have to do that but, to me, you gotta have an exit strategy.Dan: Yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. And I think the way you structured it makes sense too. I mean, yeah, you mentioned you're still getting some income from those platforms but the majority is outside of it. And I'm curious, what do your splits and breakdowns look like from a percentage perspective of, you know, like how much does come from those platforms versus how much comes from your other content or your stand-up or any of the other ticketed type of things?Kev: So, the most lucrative by a mile is live events. Touring, live events is the most lucrative. That's why when the pandemic happened, I was like, “Oh my God,” because that — before the pandemic, that was foolproof. As long as people wanted to come see you, you will be able to eat forever, and then all of a sudden, no. So, for me, the most important thing is touring. The second most important thing probably is my Patreon, because that's a group of people who really believe in what we're doing here and support me and if I lost my other platforms, they would still be there. Outside of that, YouTube and Facebook, YouTube was really consistent monetarily. Facebook can be a blow up, for me at least, a blow up and then nothing. You have some months where it's, you know, 2 grand and some months it could be 10 grand, you know what I mean? So it's like, you really can't build a business off of that, you know, wave of, you know, unpredictability. But for me, I probably say 60 percent is live, 40 percent is — or I'm sorry, 20 percent is Patreon, and the other is like podcasting. Podcasting can be really lucrative with the ad revenue. It's also platform agnostic. Like I don't need to be monetized on YouTube because I'm monetized through the ads that are baked into the podcast, you know? So, for me, those are what I focus on and everything else is gravy. Whatever Instagram pays me, gravy. Whatever Facebook pays me, gravy. Whatever YouTube pays me, gravy. And those are the things I have the least amount of control over anyway so, yeah.Dan: That makes sense, yeah, and I think like that split too, honestly sounds like what it's like for a lot of artists as well. I mean, so much comes from live performances, more than half for most of them, but that other chunk, you know, whether it's through their branded partnership or any of their influencer revenue that they may have but also what they get actually selling their music through streaming or the publishing revenue that comes in. So there's definitely a ton of similarities there, which is why I like the model of what you all, and what you specifically have done to build it up. But I think the difference though is that I probably see a little bit more creativity on average from some of the more successful independent comedians than maybe some of the more, you know, successful artists.I feel like there's been more of like a standard path but whether it's you or some of the others that have, you know, risen up, especially in the past 5 to 7 years, there's definitely, you know, I think a bit more variety and, you know, especially whether they're building their own studios or they're trying to do a few more creative brand partnerships and deals, I've always been fascinated with that piece about how comedians and stand-ups are able to monetize and use the internet.Kev: Absolutely, and I think like look at any 85 South, man, like they have — their live event is huge. And then they can just put that exact video on YouTube or their app and they sell merch and even if they did nothing else but live shows and merch, they'd probably be okay, but now, they're building their own app out. It's already out there, the Channel 8, and they're expanding that.So, you know, another smart thing, like let me diversify what we're doing and own the media aspect of it. But, for me, that's merch and brand deals like, to me, it's hard to be good at everything, you know what I mean? So I don't try to be. I'm like merch, I'll focus on the road, if I have a great idea, but it's not my strong suit, because fashion and design aren't my strong suits so I'll just really make stuff for the Stage Crew who loves it. And I'll focus on live events, video content, and podcasting and I'll be strong there. I mean, you got people like Kountry Wayne who like master of Facebook and Instagram, like he knows the amount, you gotta be at least 3 minutes to get really paid. His sketches are 3:01. They're gonna be over 3. On Instagram, they start really quick so he's mastered that and he's also on the road. So everybody has their skill set and it's kinda like, to me, basketball players, like LeBron's the greatest player to me, ever, and he's good at a lot of different things. Steph is the best shooter ever so he doesn't have to be a rebounder like LeBron because he's gonna shoot threes from the logo so you won't be able to guard him. And that's kinda how I think of creators, like very few people are as well rounded as LeBron but you can have a long career being really good at one or two things and that's fine too.Dan: Yeah. And as long as the platforms that are there are still aligned to like where your skill set is the better.Kev: Yeah.Dan: Because it's one of those things where Steph also was really good at something that he was able to set a trend with and, you know, just gotten more and more favorite too as the game went on. But it's like if you're really good at, you know, like that Charles Oakley, you know, old school right? This next game, you might not have as long of a career is you may have had in '93.Kev: That's a fantastic point. Charles Oakley wouldn't know what to do in this game, like he's still gonna be big and strong but he's gonna be guarding Luka or Kevin Durant and they shooting from three, they're driving around, the game has changed so that's a good point as well like the game changes so you have to be able to, you know, change with the game. The internet changes. The same thing with comedy, like what was funny and tweetable 10 years ago isn't funny or tweetable this year, and I'm not one of those who complains about cancel culture. As a comedian, our job is to know where the line is. Know what society thinks is funny and stay there and not to be like, “Well, this was funny 12 years ago.” Yeah, The Nutty Professor was hilarious before but it wouldn't be as funny if it was made now. People would call it fat phobic or whatever. But if you watched it then, it was great, you know what I'm saying? Pepé Le Pew, hilarious as a kid. Now you're like, “Yo, what's was he on, man? Where's the consent? Leave her alone, man. Let her go,” you know?So I think comedy and everything is similar. Everything is changing. Fashion, language, music, all of that stuff. So, you know, as a creator, you have to be aware of that change or you get left behind.Dan: Yeah. And to bring it full circle, what you brought up with Vine is a great example of this. You yourself may not have been the most successful on that platform, like you said, but there are many people who had some of the most popular Vines that were like winning and spread everywhere. And, unfortunately, I just haven't seen them as much because there's something about that 6-second storytelling that they did so well with that just didn't translate as well to where things are right now.Kev: Absolutely. 100 percent. That's what I was saying, like some people translated but for some people, that was it. They never reached the heights they had on Vine ever again, you know? And some of the same trends on Vine probably would work on TikTok but not exactly. So, you know, you gotta get in where you fit in and fit for as long as you can. And then, as the world changes, you gotta fit there too. And that's, to me, the only way to survive.Dan: Definitely. So, for you, just because you are wearing, as we talked about, all these different hats, all these different roles, 5 years from now, 10 years from now, of course, we don't know where things are going, but in the ideal scenario, what would you like to be doing more of or what would you like to be doing less of?Kev: More of helping other creators create their content. That's actually one of the things we wanna do at KevOnStage Studios. It's the hardest part though. Much harder than I realized, you know, to even maybe make somebody else's show, to even go through the legal process of trying to make it is already expensive. So I found that that part was a lot harder than I realized. If somebody comes in and is like, “Yeah, whatever deal is fine,” it's very easy. If somebody is like, “I've got these ideas and stuff,” talking to their lawyer, our lawyer, it's tough. And to do development, you need somebody who can focus on that, you need the resources for legal, you need the production staff to be able to go and make that. So I would hope that we could grow enough to be making more of stuff for other creators and creating those opportunities. Right now, we're kind of focusing on building the foundation with the team we have. But in order to do that, we'd have to scale out a little bit so that would be our goal.I would also love to be making independent movies. That's always been a dream of mine. I just love the experience of movie, either in theaters or at home, I don't care. I'm not like one of those creators, like, “It's got to be in a movie or it ain't real,” like I was poor so we couldn't go to the actual movies that much so all my dreams and memories are watching them at home. So I don't care if you're watching it on your phone or TV or whatever, but I'd love to be doing those two things, if nothing else. Creating content with others and then creating movies and creating stuff that I would love to create and hopefully distributing it to a lot of people. The one thing about the KevOnStage Studios app right now, it's still very small so, you know, to the viewer, that's fantastic, but the other streamers and distribution sites, they have a lot more access. If I tell you to go watch a show on Netflix, the chances of you having Netflix are very high. Or HBO Max, something like that. If somebody tells you to go watch something on KevOnStage Studios, the chances of you already having that app are not as high as you having Netflix. So our goal, our hope would be that, “Oh, yeah, man, I'm gonna check that out. I didn't even know we had that.” But you gotta have the show that breaks through. Like if you think about Apple TV, as much money as they have, people didn't really click in by and large until Ted Lasso. Like I watched See, they had a lot of stuff. Nobody cared, by and large, until Ted Lasso. So even — and they have trillion dollars in cash. People were like, meh, you know what I'm saying? So it's not just unique to what we're doing, it's a lot of places that struggle. Peacock and Quibi. Quibi had all the money in the world, access to every A-list star in the world, people were like meh, so it's not easy, man. It is not easy. It's not even unique to being small. It's just not an easy business to be in. So I would just hope to still be here, in fact. Low key, to still be able to do this for a living in 5 years, I will be happy with just that.Dan: No, man, I think you will. And I mean, I'm not just saying that as someone that's been a fan of your content following you for a while. I mean —Kev: Thank you, thank you. Dan: I really do look at you as one of the success stories when we think about this era of the Internet and what creators were able to do in this phase. I feel like we've seen folks in, you know, past eras and eras before that and the Internet has always been so nascent but I think your focus and consistency. Wait, which one?Kev: I really don't know. Nascent, what's that?Dan: Oh, in terms of like just being early on a trend and just being, you know, like quick with it. Like I think that, you know, for you, oh, man, lost my train of thought —Kev: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.Dan: No, no.Kev: When people use a word that I don't know, I always ask because then I'll be like, you know, “That was nascent,” and then people would be like, “What did that mean?” Oh, you know, what it means is early on to the trends and whatnot, you know what I'm saying? So I didn't mean to get you off track but I was — that's a good word that I don't know so I had to ask you real quick. I could have Googled it later but —Dan: Oh, no, no. I appreciate that. I know, people appreciate this too, just from like, you know, the conversation, for sure. No. So, normally, some of these things, editors, I'm like, “No, can you all take that out?” They're like, “No, we're leaving this in here,” because —Kev: Leave it in, editor. Dan: They'll learn too. But, yeah, man, I mean, like I said, you, the focus that you had with so much of the content that you put out and also just how you continue to enjoy it, I feel like that is the model. And I'm really excited for you and where you continue to grow and the fact that you're leveraging your platform the way you have to put people on, I mean, that's the dream. I mean, I know that, you know, I'm definitely, you know, in the days of it, it could likely feel like a lot of work but, hey, man, you're doing the work, man. And it's much appreciated.Kev: Thank you, man. That truly means a lot, Dan. I appreciate you even saying that. And I'm glad that you think, you know, I'll still be here in 5, 10 years because I hope too, you know? But if not, you know, I own a house in this small town. If you see me living in South Carolina, just figure out that it didn't work.Dan: Hey, man.Kev: But I'll still be happy. I'll still be making videos or doing podcasts or something.Dan: And joy will be there. The joy will be there. For sure. Regardless. But, hey, man, Kev, this was great. I really appreciate you for making the time. Kev: Thank you, man. Dan: But before we let you go, anything you wanna plug the audience, let them know some of the content you got coming out with the streaming service?Kev: KevOnStage Studios. man, go to your app store, whether you're on Apple, Android, Roku, Amazon, go to KevOnStage Studios, download that. Go ahead and subscribe for the year. Don't worry about what's on there. Just subscribe for the year. Trust me, it'll be worth it. We've got a lot of amazing things on there. We got the Real Comedians Challenge Show, which is just knockdown drag out funny. We've got What's Good?! which is a food show with comedians and comedians are more like regular people than chefs so you're gonna feel like it's you and your friends going out to eat in a different city. We got Love On Stage, which is a dating show my wife created and produced. That's fantastic. You can stream that whole season in there. Just fun stuff like Get Your Black Card Off Layaway shows, Keon's All Stars, Crafts and Cocktails, just fun stuff, man. Just go on there, check it out. Destination Evrywhr is an amazing travel show that, you know, has a musician who went all the way to Cambodia to make music with Cambodians. We have stuff like that. I mean, just go over there and check it out, man. Just don't worry about the monthly fee. Don't pay monthly. Pay by the year. You get two months free when you pay by the year. Just go ahead, go from here, wherever you're listening, right to KevOnStage Studios and pay for the year. You won't regret it. And even if you do, we already have your money.Dan: We'll make it easy for people too. We'll put the link in the show notes.Kev: Perfect. Thank you so much, Dan. I really appreciate it. I'm a big fan of yours. I've been watching your podcast and be like, “How does Dan get these guests?” And then you tweeted like I just be asking, I was like That ain't no secret. That's just —He's like you just know somebody or just shoot your shot. I'm like, you had Rick Ross though, man. You had Issa Rae. And you're like, “Yeah, just ask.” I'm like, “Okay, we'll see how that works, Dan. I'm gonna just ask too, see what I can get on my podcast.”Dan: I will say, I mean, there's something a bit more nuanced to that and I was like, you know what, I could have added more because I made it seem like, “Oh, y'all could do it. Why don't you just DM Rick Ross?”Kev: Yeah. I was like, “Dan, it is not that easy.” It is not that easy and you know that. I just believe all we got to do is DM him and he'll be like, “Yeah, I'm gonna be on there.” You know it took more than that, Dan.Dan: Oh, man. Well, no. So 'cause I think people probably appreciate this for the folks that do listen. So the Rick Ross one, real quick, so the Rick Ross one, I had had his attorney, Leron Rogers, on the pod. Him and I had had a good conversation and, you know, stayed connected afterward and I saw that Ross was putting out a book and I was like, “Alright, if someone's put out a book, they're gonna be on the tour,” and then I was like, “Okay, hey, you know, I know that Rozay is gonna be on the tour, would love to have him, he's writing about business. This literally is the avenue to do that.” And he was like, “Alright, send me some details, let me see what I can make work,” and then we made it work after that. Kev: See?Dan: Yeah.Kev: It is more than just DM-ing. It's timing, it's relationship, it's an audience people care about and a podcast that people actually watch and download. So, sorry, guys, it's not as easy as Dan made it seem.Dan: No, you're right. If someone has to be, “Oh, hey, how did you get KevOnStage on your pod?” I'd be like, “Oh, I just DM-ed him. Y'all could do it too.” You gotta get all these people flooded. They will be like, “Oh, KevOnStage, can you come to do my thing? Oh, KevOnStage —Kev: Guarantee you it's not gonna be that easy. 'cause if I don't follow you, I don't even really see your DMs. I'm a fan of Dan so I saw his and I already wanted to be on this show so when he asked, I was like, “Finally, my time is now.”Dan: It's funny, man, because I so remember, it's like one day on Twitter and, I mean, like I said, I've been following you on, you know, all the other platforms. And then, one day, you just quote tweeted something I said and you were like, “Y'all should follow this guy.” And I was just like —Kev: Yes.Dan: Yo, KevOnStage — I was just like, okay, all right, we hear this.Kev: 'Cause you're really smart, man, and you take stuff that is like out there and you make it so digestible. Like what Westbrook is doing, I've been following them but when you made that graphic about the flywheel, it's like, “This is exactly what they do,” but it makes so much — I sent that to so many of my friends. I was like, this is what KevOnStage Studios has to become and the way they did The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air reunion, all of the stuff they did with that and then they ran that same thing back for King Richard, genius. And then with Will's Best Shape of My Life, I watched that, get YouTube to pay for it, boom, use it to actually lose weight and promote your book.Dan: Brilliant.Kev: I said what the heck? I wanted to get the book because of that. Genius level marketing and even somebody as big as Will Smith, everything they do is not behind the paywall. They gotta use YouTube and Instagram just like regular people. So I know I'm on the right track. And I also met Will Smith, I don't know if you know that. I don't like to talk about it. Dan: Oh, no, you only post a photo, what? Every month or so.Kev: I haven't posted in a while. I should bring it up again today.Dan: If he wins this Oscar for Best Actor, you gotta be part of that campaign.Kev: He might thank me from the podium. He might be like, “This wouldn't have worked without KevOnStage's dad joke to help promote the film. I'm so glad that he did that and that's why you heard about King Richard,” and I'm gonna be like, “Thanks. You're welcome, Will. And you're welcome, world.”Dan: Oh, man. I'm kind of waiting for that moment, that will be dope.Kev: Oh, man, I'll be so happy for him. I'll be so happy. And he was great in that, like it was an Oscar-worthy performance so I really do hope he wins.Dan: Yeah, no, definitely. No, he does too. But, hey, man, this was great. I really appreciate you coming on.Kev: Thank you so much for having me, Dan. I appreciate it, man. (outro)If you enjoyed this podcast, go ahead and share it with a friend. Copy the link, text it to a friend, post it in your group chat, post it in your Slack groups. Wherever you and your people talk, spread the word. That's how Trapital continues to grow and continues to reach the right people. And while you're at it, if you use Apple Podcast, go ahead, rate the podcast, give it a high rating, and leave a review. Tell people why you like the podcast. That helps more people discover the show. Thank you in advance. Talk to you next week.

- What's New in the News! Scottie Scheffler dominates in Florida - All 3 Holes Trivia The Players Championship Edition - Golf is Like? - What Kind of Man Are You? Never 3 Putts or Never Hit 3 Off The Tee - Peevin' Dan - All this and much more! Please give a listen, like, share, subscribe and leave a review! -- Instagram: Groupchat Golf - @groupchatgolf Sonny - @officiallysonny Chubba - @chubbawatson Danny - @lafferty_daniel_ Seabass - @masterbasstian Producer Kaan - @gone_til_november88 Tik Tok: @groupchatgolf Sponsors: Tempy's Tees -- Tunes: Spanish Harlem by Mattijs Muller

- What's New in the News! 1. PGA Tour Announce Elevated Events, copies LIV 2. Jon Rahm finally cards a round above par - All 3 Holes Trivia 1. Trip Down Magnolia Lane 2. This Ones For The Girls 3. Top Dogs - Golf is Like? - What Kind of Man Are You? GPS or Music - Peevin' Dan - All this and much more! Please give a listen, like, share, subscribe and leave a review! -- Instagram: Groupchat Golf - @groupchatgolf Sonny - @officiallysonny Chubba - @chubbawatson Danny - @lafferty_daniel_ Seabass - @masterbasstian Producer Kaan - @gone_til_november88 Tik Tok: @groupchatgolf Sponsors: Tempy's Tees -- Tunes: Spanish Harlem by Mattijs Muller

- What's New in the News! 1. LIV kicks off in Mexico 2. PGA Tour holds Honda Classic 3. LIV debuts team uniforms - All 3 Holes Trivia 1. Trip Down Magnolia Lane 2. LIV LAUGH LEAVE 3. Who Died First? - Golf is Like? - What Kind of Man Are You? Poop every time you pee or poop every time you fart - Peevin' Dan - All this and much more! Please give a listen, like, share, subscribe and leave a review! -- Instagram: Groupchat Golf - @groupchatgolf Sonny - @officiallysonny Chubba - @chubbawatson Danny - @lafferty_daniel_ Seabass - @masterbasstian Producer Kaan - @gone_til_november88 Tik Tok: @groupchatgolf Sponsors: Tempy's Tees -- Tunes: Spanish Harlem by Mattijs Muller

- What's New in the News! 1. Tiger Woods hands Justin Thomas a tampon and old man golf media freaks out! 2. Thomas Pieters and others are off to LIV their best lives. 3. Full Swing debuts on Netflix - All 3 Holes Trivia 1. Living in a van down by the Riv...iera 2. How High? 3. Haiklu - Waste Management Recap trip - What Kind of Man Are You? Thong or Wetsuit? - Peevin' Dan - All this and much more! Please give a listen, like, share, subscribe and leave a review! -- Instagram: Groupchat Golf - @groupchatgolf Sonny - @officiallysonny Chubba - @chubbawatson Danny - @lafferty_daniel_ Seabass - @masterbasstian Producer Kaan - @gone_til_november88 Tik Tok: @groupchatgolf Sponsors: Tempy's Tees -- Tunes: Spanish Harlem by Mattijs Muller

**DUE TO TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES THE LAST COUPLE SEGMENTS ARE CUT OFF, GO TO OUR YOUTUBE PAGE TO HEAR THE FULL SHOW** - What's New in the News! 1. The 12 best LIV golfers vs the 12 best PGA Tour golfers 2. Does YouTube viewership dominate the golf space? 3. Golf attire: Where do we stand? - All 3 Holes Trivia 1. Whose Balls Are These? 2. Major This, Major That 3. Location, Location, Location - Word of the Week Hullaballoo - Fan Mailbag - What Kind of Man Are You? 3 wild boars or a 22 foot anaconda - Peevin' Dan - All this and much more! Please give a listen, like, share, subscribe and leave a review! -- Instagram: Groupchat Golf - @groupchatgolf Sonny - @officiallysonny Chubba - @chubbawatson Danny - @lafferty_daniel_ Seabass - @masterbasstian Producer Kaan - @gone_til_november88 Tik Tok: @groupchatgolf Sponsors: Tempy's Tees -- Tunes: Spanish Harlem by Mattijs Muller

- What's New in the News! 1. Patrick Reed and Rory McIlroy square off on the driving range 2. Rumors swirl regarding a potential Anthony Kim return to LIV 3. Donald Trump wins Club Championship despite being 600 miles away during round one - Chubba Watson's Chrivia Warehouse 1. A Trip Down Magnolia Lane 2. Haiklu 3. Picking up the Pace: Uncovering the Timeless Mystery of When It Happened - Word of the Week Impignorate - Fan Mailbag - What Kind of Man Are You? Sun on the golf course but its packed or cloudy and drizzly but its wide open? - Peevin' Dan - All this and much more! Please give a listen, like, share, subscribe and leave a review! -- Instagram: Groupchat Golf - @groupchatgolf Sonny - @officiallysonny Chubba - @chubbawatson Danny - @lafferty_daniel_ Seabass - @masterbasstian Producer Kaan - @gone_til_november88 Tik Tok: @groupchatgolf Sponsors: Tempy's Tees -- Tunes: Spanish Harlem by Mattijs Muller

Everybody's got something to say about Cash Money Records and the brothers who co-founded the label —Bryan “Birdman” Williams and Ronald “Slim” Williams. To paint the full Cash Money full picture, good and bad, I brought on Zack O'Malley Greenberg who has interviewed the brothers at-length while working at Forbes.Cash Money has one of the deepest catalogs in the game with several classics. And unlike some other upstart hip-hop labels, Birdman and Slim maintained control as they rose up. Their 1998 distribution deal with Universal is hip-hop's Louisiana Purchase.But we can't ignore Cash Money's lows either. There is a long, long list of artists who claim they were not compensated fairly by Birdman and Slim.Zack and I go through 30 years of Cash Money as a business, its competitive advantage, and what comes next now that Drake and Wayne are gone from the label. [1:44] Is Cash Money the greatest hip-hop record label of all time?[7:34] What people sleep on about Cash Money[11:01] Cash Money's history of not paying artists [16:52] Did Cash Money succeed because of Birdman and Slim or despite them? [19:29] Biggest signing? [20:29] The 1998 Universal-Cash Money deal [25:31] Lil' Wayne's mixtape run[29:03] The benefit of partnering with Republic Records[31:49] Bidding wars for Lil Wayne, Drake, and Nicki Minaj[33:21] Connection with New Jack City [40:56] Cash Money catalog valuation ?[43:00] Lil Wayne's beef with Birdman [45:48] Can Cash Money strike platinum again? [50:44] Birdman's love for music [56:08] Hopes for a Cash Money reunion tour and biopic [58:24] Who “won” the most in Cash Money's history?Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | SoundCloud | Stitcher | Overcast | Amazon | Google Podcasts | Pocket Casts | RSSHost: Dan Runcie, @RuncieDan, trapital.coGuests: Zack O'Malley Greenburg, @zogblogEnjoy this podcast? Rate and review the podcast here! ratethispodcast.com/trapitalTrapital is home for the business of music, media and culture. Learn more by reading Trapital's free memo.Transcription[00:00:00] Zack: You know, some of the subsequent deals that they worked out with Universal, you know, maybe some of the deals where they were able to get universal to, to tackle some of the back office stuff. I mean, it's very unsexy, but you know, that's clearly an area where they needed to improve. So, let's say,to give some cash in terms of like higher distribution fee in order to have Universal, you know, cover some of this stuff. It's kinda like a boring, dark horse candidate, but you know, I mean, you could say that, that's probably useful in terms of buttoning things up.[00:00:37] Dan Intro: Hey, welcome to the Trapital Podcast. I'm your host and the founder of Trapital, Dan Runcie. This podcast is your place to gain insights from the executives in music, media, entertainment, and more who are taking hip hop culture to the next level.[00:00:57] Dan: All right. Today's episode is all about the one, the only cash money records. I got the one and only Zack Greenberg here who has reported on this company many times before we ran to this company and the business moves they did in our Top 10 Revolutionary list last year. So Zack, welcome back. I'm excited for this one.[00:01:18] Zack: Always good to be here with you, Dan. [00:01:19] Dan: Yeah. So for the folks listening, we are gonna do this in a few ways. We got a bunch of categories here that we're gonna run through, just evaluating Cash Money as a business, some of the highs, some of the lows, and just where they stand overall. But I think it'll be great to kick it off with the question that we often hear from folks is Cash Money, the greatest hip hop record label of all time? What's your point? What's your take?[00:01:44] Zack: How, man, you know, I mean, I think it's sort of like, any of these greatest ever are you talking about, overall body of work or sort of like, you know, The label at its peak. But you know, I think you gotta take it in an overall body of work, you know, type of thing. You know, it's hard to top Def Jam, I think, you know, if you were gonna go with an overall body of work, hip hop, legacy. But, you know, I don't know other than that, I mean, it's hard to say that there's anybody who you'd put above cash money, I'd say. Especially something that is, you know, really artist founded in that same way. I mean, you could talk about Bad Boy, you could talk about Rockefeller. But I think that, you know, Cash Money has staying power. You know, through Drake and Nikki and Lil Wayne and so forth, you know, in a way that, you know, I would argue that a lot of these other labels haven't, and, you know, who else can say that they've had Drake for that long? And I guess he's not there anymore. But man, that was pretty recent development and it's been a pretty great run. So, you know, to go all the way from the early nineties, you know, through basically now being relevant, stacking up all that catalog, you know, it's certainly, if not number one, it's, you know, gotta be top three, if not top two.[00:03:00] Dan: Yeah. So my answer is Def Jam as well, and we'll get to Def Jam in a minute. But, the case for Cash Money is this, and I know a few people have said it. Irv Gotti recently said it. Russell Simmons himself said that Cash Money was the greatest hip hop company that has come through. But the case for cash money, you mentioned it earlier, the fact that they did it while owning the core asset and the music and still doing that moving forward says a lot. Not something that can be said about Def Jam, many of the others that would be even in the conversation. I think even with a newer label at Quality Control, they've still done it while owning it. Well, at least up to this point from some rumors that are happening. But I think that's one case for Def Jam. But then I think of the continued run of success from everything that happened in the nineties from I guess we could start with like juvenile drop in HA in 98 and then pretty much everything from Drake's last Cash Money album, which I believe was Scorpion. So if you're looking just at like that run from everything there, that is such a strong hit rate. And I think that's the thing too that I would give them over Def Jam is the hit rate of who were the artists we signed and what was their likelihood of success and they were just able to do it. Even with the imprints, I mean, I think major record labels. So wrong with so many imprints. I just never worked out and for them to have, whether it's Young Money or even the smaller moments with the best music or with Rich Gain, there was always something there. And even though there was some conflict, and we'll get to that, I think that's the Cash Money case. The Def Jam case though, I think this is where I think of course Def Jam did end up becoming a major record label, so it's a little bit nuanced there, but I do think you have that eighties run Beasties LL Public Enemy. You got the nineties run with all those artists too. Especially looking at what Red Band met the man DMX. I feel like they had New York on Locke and then two thousands, the Rockefeller partner. Murder Inc. The video games, I mean, it's, I know the last decade hasn't been there, but it would be tough to not put Def Jam up top, but I understand if some people would consider Def Jam a major as opposed to, you know, an independent. So, I get the nuance there. [00:05:10] Zack: right, right. And, and being, you know, fully owned by a major as opposed to Cash Money, which really has distribution agreement. You know, and you could look at, you know, I guess Def Jam was sold in chunks, but the total amount that sold for, you'd have to adjust for inflation and stuff. But I wonder how that would stack up against the current value of cash money today, which, you know, it's incredibly driven by the copyrights that they still control and, you know, definitely hundreds of millions of dollars. You know, if you look at, Lil Wayne kind of quietly sold his The Young Money, Cash Money Partnership for a hundred million bucks a couple years ago, that was before the catalog boom, got really crazy and then kind of died down again. So, you know that that's valuing what Birdman and Slim Own, you know, just on the Young Money, Cash Money side of the business, you know, at nine figures. So there's, you know, there's a lot more to the company than that, although that's, you know, that's kind of the gold line. But still, you gotta think that, you know, this is still, you know, sent a million dollar business and, you know, I'd be curious to see what a proper valuation, you know, what it would look like against the total value that Def Jam got, you know, in terms of dollars over the years. But, you know, when you think about who was hottest and what record label was hottest at any particular point, Yeah, I think probably the peak was there was that year that Def Jam was, you know, getting sold or the second half of it was getting sold. And, Lyor basically said to Jay and D M X, like, let's have two albums this year. And, you know, because the valuation is gonna be based on revenues, not earnings. And like, the more you can sell, the more we get. And so, you know, that moment at D M X at his peak, and you know, Jay, I think, I'd say at least at his commercial, you know, record Sales Peak, you know, as an individual artist, you know, that was about as hot as, as it could ever get for, for any record label, I think. [00:07:08] Dan: That's a good point. So I guess if we were to compare Def Jams 98 and 99, like that run to Yeah. Cash Money, and I know there's a few runs you could put in there, but from an overall commercial perspective, it would have to be 0 8, 0 9 20 10, I would probably assume, because you get. Carter three, and then you get, you know, Drake's debut, Nikki's debut. I feel like it would probably be somewhere in there. [00:07:34] Zack: Yeah, that's probably pretty close. I mean, that was a lot, you know, that was a lot of concentration within a couple year period as well. You know, and I think the other thing about Cash Money, that maybe people sleep on to some extent is, you know, just like the efficiency of the label, especially in the early days. And, you know, of course we can get into some of the issues with paying producers and so forth, but, you know, they really had a system and you know, it was going and finding artists that were bubbling up, you know, first in the New Orleans area. I mean, this is in the nineties, and, you know, and then kind of just plugging them into the machine. Right. You know, put them with stable producers in-house, get Manny Fresh on there and, you know, it was not like a, you know, high expense kinda situation. Like maybe you would've seen with Def Jam or, you know, some of the New York, LA labels, it was just like, you know, you know, probably low, low cost, high output. You know, like there's a high margin business, low overhead, you know, it's lean and mean. So I think from, in that regard, Cash Money, you know, it might have been, it might have been the best business, you know, out of any record label. Right. In terms of sort of like efficiency and profitability and stuff like that.[00:08:47] Dan: That's a great point because if you look at that vibe, I think that was the vibe for the South overall. We saw that with no Limit as well, just with in-house production sheep, that production does almost everything and the music videos aren't flashy and the fact that I think they stuck with what they do and what they work with well, and eventually I think collaborations came, but that was something that they were hesitant about as well. Just thinking about juvenile dropping 400 degrees, and I'm going back to that just because that's the first album that comes after that 1998 Universal deal, which we'll talk about soon, but, that album, I'm pretty sure the entire production value for those music videos probably costs less than one of the suits that Puffy and Mace wore in the music videos. or, yeah, Jay-Z's Sunshine Music video, which I know has been talked about for years on end, but that's what the vibe was. There were no Hype Williams music videos coming through Cash Money. Right. At least at that point. I know they came later when Wayne blew up further, but that's what they did. They stuck to what they did and it worked. It worked so well. [00:09:55] Zack: Warren Buffet would love Cash Money. [00:09:59] Dan: Oh yeah. He loves little cost.[00:09:59] Zack: Cash Value. Value, cash value investor. Right. Early cash money would be the Warren Buffet play.[00:10:06] Dan: Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. And the thing is too, you talked about it earlier, just some of this things leading up to the big deal that they had, but even back in those early days, even before the Universal deal, Birdman and Slim, the co-founders of Cash Money Records had a history of legal issues with artists and not paying artists on time. And I actually have a list here, and it's probably an incomplete list, but artists that have had some type of dispute or issue with Cash Money records when it comes to payments. So I have Lil Wayne, Pharrell, Clipse, David Banner, Bangladesh, the producer, at least five or six artists before 1998, Wendy Day, who's not an artist, but one of the attorneys and people that helped make this deal happen. Behi Turk and Shal and Jazz Prince, of course himself. Tiger, Manny Fresh, and I'm sure I'm missing people from that list. [00:11:01] Zack: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's a long and storied list of people to have disputes with and, you know, it really is something that goes, you know, hand in hand with success.You can't ignore that history. So, you know, I think it is important to remember some of the context. You know, these guys were coming out of a completely different world. You know, and they were hustlers. They were legit hustlers in New Orleans. And, you know, in doing some reporting, you know, I verified it. I mean, you know, they were the real deal. They moved things over. They went legit. They became record moguls and Bird Man's Case became a rapper himself. And, you know, they were not people who had dealt with, you know, sets of books, right? There was not really necessarily like bookkeeping apparatus in their form of business. So, you know, I think there was an adjustment period that, you know, let's say perhaps went on for too long in terms of, you know, getting things papered up and straightened out. But, you know, I wrote a big story on them in 2019 for Forbes, where I went down to Miami and spent some time with Birdman and Slim. I talked to their lawyers a lot. I talked to Wendy Day. Spend some time in the studio with them and you know, I mean, everybody of course has, if you ask people in the Cash Money camp, they're gonna have their side of the story. If you ask whoever they're having the dispute with, you know, they're gonna have their side of the story too. And you know, obviously when there's smoke, there's fire, there's a hell of a lot of smoke when it comes to not getting paid on time. But… [00:12:29] Dan: What would you say is the Cash Money side of the story, though? The Cash Money is this it?[00:12:33] Zack: They, you know, started out as people who had not had formal training in business, doing business with a lot of other people who had not had formal training in business, who were represented by people who had not had formal training in business. And so when you go back to some of these early documents, it was not properly papered over on either side. And so there's a lot of question over, you know, who owns what, you know, I don't know that anybody who was involved in some of those early deals really, you know, had a full grasp of sort of, you know, music copyright and publishing and, and master recordings and all that. I mean, you know, it's not like an intuitive business, you know, it's like, wait, what? There's two writes to every song. They've like, there's a publishing and a recorded music. It's separate. How does that work? So I think a lot of that was, you know, kind of like if you go back the nineties and early nineties, especially when they're getting started, you know, before the Universal deal there was just really like, you know, I would imagine a lot of handshake deals, a lot of just, you know, kind of like, let's see how, how it goes sort of stuff. A lot of, you know, here we're gonna give you a bag of cash and you do you give us this beat or you give us a verse or whatever. So, you know, it makes sense to me that it might not be papered up properly. But, you know, the fact that that's continued, you know, so far into the future, you know, that's another story. So, you know, what they did say was that, you know, after, and we can talk more about this Universal deal, but after the Universal deal started and then, you know, as it continued to evolve, you know, to where Universal got an even bigger cut of, you know, distribution fee or like an even bigger distribution fee than it had signed up for in the beginning. Universal took on more and more of sort of the back office function. And so, you know, some of the more recent stuff is, you know, a little bit more papered up properly. So that's the Cash Money side. But, you know, it's funny, I mean, when I did this story and I reached out to all these folks, you know, what I got was like a no comment, which says to me that, you know, things have been settled up and they kind of don't want to get into it anymore. Right. Or maybe there was an NDA involved. But yeah, a lot, a lot of smoke. A lot of smoke in that area, for sure. [00:14:42] Dan: Yeah, the NDAs are key. I remember there was one of the people that I had mentioned earlier that I was going to have on the podcast of Trapital, the interview timing didn't work out, but that was one of the first things they said. If you have any questions for us about Birdman and his relationship with this artist or anything like that. No, we're not answering it. And I was just like, all right, noted. Like, and I feel like that's kind of RANE with a lot of this, but I think they and Birdman and Slim specifically in an odd way. It wasn't even just to them alone. I feel like there was this ethos of, you could almost put Suge Knight into this same category as well, but these people that were cut throat with business folks that they were doing major deals with, whether it was Suge Knight with the folks at Interscope or Birdman with Universal, I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna take what's mine. And rightfully so. They kept ownership over what worked for them and they did that, but they kept that same energy with a lot of the people that like worked with them on the other side too. And that's the piece of it that while it was frustrating to see there are actually some other sides of this too, because even the fact that I think we can get into it in a little bit, but just some of the artists, they were able to sign how they went about that. As frustrating as it was about them not paying artists, like there not every aspect of the business was and is predatory. So that's one thing that you know started to come up more and more as once you get past the salacious parts of the details and stuff, you're like, okay, no and no different than why you went down there to report them. Right. There is nuance and there are a number of things to dive into. For sure, for sure. So shifting here, one of the other things that I've thought about, we talked a little bit about what set Cash Money apart. We talked a bunch about the backstory and the bad rep, but the next thing up here is about Cash Money itself and whether or not you think that it succeeded cause of Birdman and Slim or it succeeded despite them. So thinking about this hypothetical world, if it even is possible, other folks that would've had this label in their hands and what things would've looked like, what's your take there? If we're really isolating them as business leaders.[00:16:52] Zack: I absolutely think it succeeded because of them. I mean, did they get in their own way some of the time? Absolutely. But I think, you know, anybody who can run a business that goes from like the early nineties in an informal economy, you know, in like the Louisiana area to being this global thing, to this day that is still, you know, very much at the forefront of an industry. I mean, you know, like they gotta be doing something right. You know, 30 plus years on the staying relevant and, you know, from like the early days Hot Boys to like the late nineties and, you know, remember Big Timers and Oh yeah. Still flying, all that, you know, heyday as we were alluding to, and sort of like the late s apparently, you know, 2010s, you know, of Cash Money, Young Money with Nikki and Drake and Wayne. Even coming through to, you know, to you to say Scorp. I mean, that's a really long run of relevance and you know, have that, I mean, yeah, like I said, they gotta be doing something [00:17:53] Dan: Right. Yeah. I think it's because of them too. I will. Because as much as there are issues, and we've talked about a lot of them here, There's so much of this that would've succeeded with folks, other folks in charge, because there are a lot of record labels from the South that tried to do what Cash Money did as well. And a lot of them came and then most of them went. And the fact that we're having this conversation and not having it about them is part of it. And a lot of those record labels had talented people as well, but things just didn't carry over. They may have taken, you know, a bigger deal to get more money upfront, but then the hypothetical is, let's say it was in the hands of someone else that wouldn't have been able to push it forward, then it becomes part of the Island Def Jam conglomerate and then just kind of gets mixed and mixed. And then it becomes one of the many labels that you hear about where it's like, oh yeah, whatever happened to this one or that one. And I think it took what could have been easily, because there would've been enough meat on the bone if we just talked about Cash Money from the early nineties up until, let's say the mid two thousands. Right. And I think that's, inflection point that we can talk about in a little bit. Even that itself was a great run itself. And then you look at the second half of the career from like the mid two thousands on, that's a whole other historic record label. They have two of those under the same house. I think it's because of them and as much as it can be frustrating to hear and see and, you know, unlikely there's some critical things. But let's jump into that now though, because I think one of the questions we have here is the biggest signing that this record label has had. What do you think is the biggest signing for Cash Money?[00:19:29] Zack: Oh man. You know, I think probably easy answer is Drake, but you know, I would actually say Lil Wayne because if you don't have Wayne, I don't think the Drake thing happens, you know, and really Lil Wayne from such a young age going all the way back to the hot boys and, and you know, coming through. All those Carter albums, you know, like he's the backbone of this whole operation, you know, musically, sonically. And I think without him you don't get everything else that comes along. What do you think?[00:19:58] Dan: Yeah, it's Wayne too. That's who I have. I know that Drake is the highest commercial artist. If you were to look at all of the numbers and I think without him, the past decade would've looked very different. But we would still be having this conversation in some form. Likely if it wasn't for the past decade of Drake, it may be a bit more truncated. But we may not be having this conversation at all if it wasn't for Wayne. So I think it has to be Wayne there. What do you think is the best business move for Cash Money?[00:20:29] Zack: You know, I'm gonna go back to that first deal that they struck with Universal. I was in the early nineties at Wendy Day, who he mentioned earlier. It was sort of like a go be who helped, you know, really get them, you know, kind of set up properly with this deal. But you know, they negotiated it and they wouldn't take anything less than something that they felt was an incredible deal. And, I remember the story that Slim told me as they went in, they sat down some mid-level executive at Universal and low-balled them to straight up buy half the company. And so he and Birdman just got up to leave. Then Doug Morris walks in and he was the head of Universal at the time. Comes in with another colleague, Mel Lo winter and Slim members, you know, Doug saying, Hey, if I were you, I wouldn't sell my company. He comes in and offers him 30 million advance just for the privilege of doing business. And, what does Universal get a 7% distribution fee, which is not a lot. So kind of almost doesn't make sense from Universal's perspective unless you think about it in terms of market share. Market share is so important when you're the biggest record label because there are all these great things that happen when you have the most market share. There are all kinds of rights that are assigned based on market share. Like anytime there's, you know, a mislabeled song that gets played or gets spun,and this happens a lot, the metadata in music is a disaster. So if, you know, there are these huge pops of sort of like unresolved money and you know, what they eventually do is they get resolved down by market sharing. So if you're Universal, you know, you get the land share of that and there's a lot of other things, a lot of other places where calculations are done based on market share. You can also brag and say that you're the biggest stuff like that. So, you know, certainly it was worth it for Universal to come in and especially, you know, you think about at the time, You know, hip hop was still at a nascent stage and particularly hip hop in the South was like, not even really on the map for Universal to be able to come in and have this connection was really great for them. But, yeah, I mean, what a great deal. 30 million bucks. You don't have to give up anything. You just give, you know, just give a distribution fee and frankly, you would want your stuff to be distributed by this, you know, enormous record label anyway, so that you could expand and get bigger and better. So I think hands down, that's it. You know, that didn't stop, that there were rumors, you know, that they were even bootlegging their own music, like out the back or wherever, so that they didn't have to pay the 7%. But I, you know, I don't know. I mean, that's that talk about, you know, efficient business. But, you know, I think you go back to that deal that kind of laid the groundwork. Cause if they had given up half of their company way back then, I mean, you see what happened, Jay-Z he up, you know, a huge chunk of Rockefeller early on and. And I think was never really that incentivized, you know, to make that his main thing anymore because, you know, he'd given up such a big chunk early on.[00:23:29] Dan: Yeah, it's one of the best deals we've seen in music and one of the best deals we've seen in hip hop over the past 30 years without question. And the fact that they were able to get everything you mentioned, plus 2 million advance for three years. They kept ownership of the Masters too. And that's the thing that, as we talked about, Birdman and Slim are still collecting on that year after year. So it's up there. It's incredible. And I know that there were other labels that tried to do the same, but just couldn't. I think part of the reason is that this goes back to them focusing odd, what works for them. They had a unique sound. Universal saw this as their entryway to the south in an authentic way because back then, you know, the south was still vying for dominance. And I know that, you know, things were happening at LaFace, but this was different. The New Orleans sound was different from what was happening in Atlanta at the moment. And this gave you an entry path into that. So it was big time. [00:24:27] Zack: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, I think, you know, also 30 million back then, I mean, probably more like 50, 60 million when you talk about inflation. But you know, I would, to our earlier point, you know, did Cash Money succeed? You know, or despite Slim and Birdman, you know, that's situation where, you know, obviously I wasn't there and there wasn't a video of it, but, you know, when you sit down with Slim and Birdman, like you can get the sense that it would be tough to negotiate with that.You know? I mean, Slim's sitting there, he's like 10 feet tall. He doesn't really talk very much, you know, and Birdman, he can get pretty loquacious, but like, uh, he, you know, when he wants to, you know, be kind of stone based, you know, I mean, he can, he can have a great poker face. So I think, you know, if you're some executive, you're going in and you're trying to get them to sell, and they have really no incentive to sell, and they're sitting. Just like, Nope, we're good. You know? I think that that leads you to offer them some crazy deal, like the one that Universal offered and so I really would chocolate up to some very good negotiating, on their part as well. [00:25:31] Dan: Yeah. You need to be able to negotiate to pull off hip hop's Louisiana purchase. Got to at least one half. Absolutely. At least one half of it. Yeah. So, yeah. The other thing that I did have was a dark horse move and a move that doesn't get talked about as much, and as much as that move does get focused on the one dark horse that I did have is the, well, I guess too, but let me focus on this one. I would say that the mixtape strategy that they had with Lil Wayne in the mid to late two thousands, even though cash money had ownership of the music, even though this, I think that worked so well. One of the questions that we have is just how well did this company record label transition from different stages of music, whether it was from the CD era, ringtones or ringtones, to streaming it, Cash Money knocked it out of the park. With each of their albums sold, especially when they did this deal at the height of the CD era, when the music industry was struggling in the mid two thousands and they were trying to get people to buy CDs. They were just like, Hey, let's give away the music for free. And Wayne was rapping over other beats. He was in his bag more than anyone, and from dedications to Drought, all of those, just so many classics in there that I think real Hip Hop fans and folks that were following Wayne were following even more so than the next album. So all of that speaks. Lil Wayne being able to sell over a million albums in the first week when the Carter three drops in 2008, which is still a very tough time for CD sales to even happen. So that whole run and just the thought to do that. And granted, I think some of this may have been a bit more on Lil Wayne's push himself, especially because at that point he had his own young money imprint. But all of this is happening and you know, Birdman and Slim had a problem with it. They could have said no. But I think the fact that they leaned into the change that was happening, you already saw what 50 Cent did with his mixtapes in the mid two thousands. You get drama, you get the other folks in the south to be able to help make this happen. And I think it worked out well for them.[00:27:34] Zack: Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good point too. So, you know, I mean, I guess when you have a label that has been that successful, that long, Yeah, there should be a couple different options for what the best move was. Yeah, I like that as a sleeper pick. [00:27:47] Dan: Yeah. And Lollipop is the best selling ringtone of all time too. over 5 million ringtones sold, and I mean, ringtones, were selling for like three bucks each to that point. So I mean 15 million just from folks wanting to, you know, have, you know, that little jingle on there, Motorola razors or whatever the hell people were using at that point. But, what was your dark horse? Oh [00:28:10] Zack: Oh man, that's a really good question. I don't know. I mean, I guess it was just so clearly the Universal deal to me. But, you know, and Drake wouldn't really be considered a dark horse candidate, I guess you could say. As time went on, you know, some of the subsequent deals that they worked out with Universal, you know, maybe some of the deals where they were able to get Universal to tackle some of the back office stuff. I mean, it's very unsexy, but you know, that's clearly an area where they needed to improve. So, let's say,to give us some cash in terms of like higher distribution fee in order to have Universal, you know, cover some of this stuff. It's kinda like a boring, dark horse candidate. But you know, I mean, you could say that that's probably useful in terms of buttoning things up and you know, there was a lot of smoke, like we said, but you know, nothing ever, like the house never burned down. So, you know, maybe, maybe those kinds of arrangements really kind of help prevent something like that from happening.[00:29:03] Dan: And I think that back office piece also just makes me think about the broader partnership and the expertise that they were able to lean on. And a question that I actually didn't explore, but now I'm thinking more about it, is how different do we think that the Universal partnership would've been, let's say Cash Money had partnered with another label under the Universal umbrella? Because obviously part of this is very close. There was Universal Republic at the time and they've been hand in hand working with Monte and Avery Lipman ever since, and they are two of the most highly regarded executives in the game that have now being, year after year after year, the label with the number one market share. And part of that is because of Cash Money itself, but it's also because of all the other stars, even outside of that label, they have been able to bring it to, as opposed to many of the other labels in the Universal Umbrella or the umbrella of Universal Music group labels that have not had that consistency. So I also think there's a dynamic there where, let's say there's another world where cash money was under capital or cash money was under some of these other labels that have struggled to stay relevant, what that would've looked like.[00:30:10] Zack: Yeah. I mean, I think if you, if you kind of need to go back to Def Jam, you know, some of the back and forth that Def Jam has had over the years. It gives you an idea of, or even as like a top label, the kind of trials and tribulations you might go under. But you know, when you're coming in, you know, going directly to Doug Morris, you know that that gives you a lot of leeway, a lot of leverage. You got that line straight to the top. And, you know, even with somebody like Jay, it took him, it wasn't until, you know, I don't know, when he was dealing directly with Doug Morris, when Doug, this is, I think around the time of Blueprint three, and Jay had that line. I gave Doug a grip. I lost the flip for five stacks. He could have the album. They bet 10 million on a coin flip and like, you know, one way or the other. So, you know, but Birdman we're doing that like, you know, 15 years earlier, having that kind of direct line. So, you know, again, I think going straight to serve them incredibly well.[00:31:09] Dan: Definitely. Yeah. Another, another piece too. So, two other, like sonically three other dark horse candidates, I'll bring 'em, but they're all under the same thing, was Bird Man's ability to win bid wars and win huge bidding wars, I think is an underrated piece of this record label. So I'll bring up three of them. First one, go back to 2004. So this is around the time thatCarter came out and Wayne was considering to leave Def Jam, and this was around the time that Jay-Z had just became president and Jay-Z pushed hard, make that happen and couldn't leave cash money for Def Jam. That was the thought, right?[00:31:43] Zack: Yeah. Yeah. Carter boys, and there were all these, you know, kind of …[00:31:49] Dan: Yeah, they're trying to push the whole Carter board thing and yeah, Birdman was like, all right, come through. I'll give you your own imprint and you are the president of that imprint and let's continue this thing. And that obviously sets up young money and then the next 15 years after that, right. So he does that. Yeah. And I think that's huge because then that sets the stage for the bidding war for Drake, because Drake drops so far gone beginning of 2009. And this is like, you know, everyone is trying to, it's like when Yaba sweepstakes we're seeing in the NBA right now everyone wants this person and everyone is going after them. I mean, truly Greenwall Lior, everyone was trying to get 'em. And it was that connection that Drake had with Cortez, Brian and Jay Prince Ja Prince and that whole crew that I think eventually helped keep him on the cash money roster there. So that was a huge one. And I think we saw something similar with Nicki Minaj as well. A couple months later. Everyone wanted her to beat me up. Scotty the mixtapes were hot and he and Wayne, Wayne was like, no, I want her to be the, the first lady of the label. That was the whole thing in the two thousands, right? Everyone wanted to have the first lady. You saw it in the nineties, right? But like everyone wanted to declare and elevate this person and rightfully so, but like that's who we had. And then we obviously saw the beginning and the middle part of that next decade. Just go on one of the all-time runs. So Bird Band's ability to win against the biggest people in the industry for record label that his men, you know, his brother own is really impressive for sure.[00:33:21] Zack: And you know, it served Lil Wayne well in the end because Young Money became something that he was able to sell for, you know, about a hundred million dollars for his stake later on too. So, you know, keeping that ownership as opposed to just chasing the biggest advance time and time again we see in hip hop. You know, it's so important. But, you know, I was thinking the other night, it is funny, like everyone has watched New Jack City, and it had been ages, ages, ages. And if they reminded me, I mean, how much of the whole Young Money, Cash Money situation is modeled after elements of that movie. I mean, even just like, The name Cash Money or C M B Y M C M B. The shirts, like the shirts, are incredibly similar that, you know, a lot of the lines, even the Carter, you know, the albums are named. I mean, the Carter was the building, you know, where Wesley Stein's character was like running this whole operation you know, that's kind of like another interesting element to the whole, you know, to the whole narrative. Like, you know, these guys coming out of Louisiana, you know, had their eyes up on this very New York kind of, you know, almost role model, for a business. And, you know, they had been hustlers. They were kind of modeling themselves after these, you know, fictional hustlers in New York and, you know, and then in a way out hustled sort of like the New York record label establishment. So I thought that was kind of an interesting, you know, little side bit of color to the whole story. And, like a bit of irony as well, you know, when you talk about, South versus, New York kind of situation too. [00:34:59] Dan: And I think that also speaks to some of that mentality too, because here you have Birdman that was getting inspiration from a black crime movie. And I think a lot of the ways of him doing business are very much central on, okay, I wanna support and uplift the black community, do what I can here and grid. And I think, you know, part of how he was able to do that has, you know, been quite controversial just with certain artists he's had on. Yeah. But still, I think that ethos stems back from ownership in trying to keep things in-house as much as you can. And it took them a lot to even partner with other artists from other parts of the countries and stuff like that, that I think you saw with Dino Brown and how he was in that movie and how he carried versus I think someone like Jay-Z who record label Rockefeller named after one of the great white business magnets that you had in this country. Right. And so many Jay-Z bars, whether it's Black Axl, Rose Black, Kirk Cobain called me this. I feel like, you know, people always get on Kanye for some of that. Like always trying to like be okay. I'm, you know, the black version of whatever X person. But I think Jay-Z, you know, also had a lot of that too. And then I think also looking at his business mentality, a lot of his success came from his huge and lucrative partnerships with established companies in this space. So the inspiration I think also became kind of telltale sign for the type of businesses these types of folks ended up creating too. [00:36:23] Zack: Yeah. And you know, I mean, you know, brown was a really ruthless character. And you know, I think there's like the money and the success that's glamorized. But you know, it's a gritty movie. I mean it seems like he is not a likable guy in the end. You know, without giving too much of the plot, I'm sure everybody's seen it, but like, I was like, wow. Yeah. I don't know if I'd be wanting to model myself after this dude. You know, he's pretty brutal. But, you know, even on the, you know, kind of the lighter side, there's a scene where he's like giving out turkeys at Thanksgiving. Yep. And you know, the Cash Money guys always give out turkeys in New Orleans at Thanksgiving and I wonder if they got that directly from the movie. You know, cuz so many of you know, from the Carter. You know, the c n b kind of, kind of like whole, you know, ethos there. I wonder how much of that they just pulled directly from the movie, so…[00:37:16] Dan: Oh, yeah. I could definitely see that mentality too. And speaking about it, you know, full circle. I could also see Birdman having a bit of that cancel that bitch mentality too, in short situations.[00:37:28] Zack: Right, right, right, right. Exactly. So, yeah, I mean, and they won't talk about that part of it, the interviews maybe, but you kind of get the sense of like that's where the negotiation and the cash element of the Cash Money comes in. Yeah. [00:37:42] Dan: The aita literally held people over the balcony of a building to get what he wanted. Right. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of that came through to fruition. But next category up here. So missed opportunity. Is there anything that you look at that you're like, man, obviously it's an overall successful company. Is there anything you look back on about what if they did this differently or what if they did that differently?[00:38:02] Zack: I think the number one thing I wonder is what if they had sold the whole thing, you know? A year and a half ago, could they have gotten just an insane multiple? I mean, you know, you're seeing like Springsteen staying and all these guys getting hundreds of millions of dollars for their catalogs. So, you know, I get it. And there's, you know, catalogs, hip hop catalogs are valued differently from rock catalogs. And also one of the benefits of rock catalogs is they're usually, you know, written and owned by, you know, all the rights are with the band. There's not like a million different producers coming in. It's not as complicated. So like, you know, they can sell the whole thing, you know, a hundred percent of the rights and you don't have to, you know, it's not like you're just buying like, you know, I don't know, 30% of this and 50% of that and whatever. It's, it's not this complex web, let's say there may not be as many things that haven't been papered over as there were with Cash Money, but man, you know, there were some pretty insane, numbers flying around and I really wonder if, you know, if they had, been applying some of, you know, 20 or 30 x multiple. To whatever they were pulling in, you know, which is, you know, they can just sit there and make, you know, tens of millions of dollars a year, just off of this catalog. I mean, so what would the market have been if they had went and sold the whole thing at the peak of the catalog? Boom. That's what I really wonder. [00:39:21] Dan: That's a good one. So I guess some high level back of the envelope math on that. So let's say that the peak of the catalog boom was like December, 2020 maybe, and then like, you know, into the spring of 2021 and we definitely saw some 30 x multiples there and at least the last public number I saw, and I think you had this in one of your latest articles as well, but that Cash Money's Masters generated around 30 million annually, or 20 to 30 million. Was that the number?[00:39:49] Zack: Yeah, I think it was at least 30. And you know, cuz Bird, like most of hey Birdman, you know, has been making like close to 20 million a year, for a while, give or take. And you know, most of that is just, you know, the catalog. So yeah, I mean that's just his cut. And then if you figure you double that for Slim, yeah, probably, you know, it was around 30, 35, something like that, so, you know. Yeah. I mean, are they gonna get a 30 x value even at the peak? I don't think so because just hip hop wasn't getting that kind of valuation. I don't really understand that because everybody's like, oh, rock and roll music gonna stand the test of time. It's like if you ask the average 20 year old who Bruce Springsteen is, they're not gonna know. I mean, so I would argue that hip hop is actually gonna be more valuable down the line. But just the valuation, you know, that's not what people have been paying for. So even at the peak, you know, I, I don't know that I saw any valuations anywhere near 30. I think Kanye was shopping his catalog at one point and wanted a 30 x multiple, but, you know, didn't get any bites. So I think it comes down to like, yeah, what kind of multiple could they actually have gotten? [00:40:56] Dan: Yeah, because even more recently, so yeah, we're recording this now. January, 2023, there was a report that just came out about Dr. Dre selling a collection of music assets that I believe are worth different multiples. But the number that I heard from that was, They generate around 10 million per year and that he wanted 250 and he's getting just over 200 million or somewhere between that. So that's around a 20 x multiple for a deal. That sounds like it was still coming underway in 2022. So if you were to put that multiple on, let's call it 35 million for maybe what Birdman and Slim have collectively, then that is you're talking $700 million. So that's a pretty sizable number, not a billion. But maybe if there are some concerns about, maybe there's a bit more of a split of who owns what. We didn't even talk about publishing right now, but there may be a split too, especially if everything was captured. and even thinking about quality control, for instance, and I think they got around 400 million, 300, got 400 million, but this was last year. So I would assume that 500 to 750 sounds, if I heard a number there, I would be like, sounds about right. If I heard a number lower than that or higher than that, I would probably be surprised one way or the other. [00:42:15] Zack: Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think that makes sense. And it's not just one artist, you know, obviously it's a whole bunch of artists and a bunch of pieces of different artists. But I think another thing, and this is maybe one of the reasons why the hip-hop valuations are lower, is like when you have all those producers, it might not be as easy to get, you know, to get clearances for using stuff in commercials and that sort of thing. Whereas if you buy a hundred percent of the rights, there's no question. Right. And so I'm not even sure if somebody owned 1% of, of something, whatever. Like I don't think they would have some, like, veto right. About the song being played in a commercial. But, you know, when you start to have so many different parties owning bigger stakes, a particular song, it can get a little convoluted and, you know, I do wonder if that's a big part of it as well.[00:43:00] Dan: Yeah, no, that's a good point. Yeah. Cuz I think sampling also is a huge piece of that as well. The missed opportunity for me, this is a bit more of a specific one from like a timeframe, not like a specific move, but Birdman and Little Wayne not settling and squashing the beef, the issues that they had in the mid 2010s. I think we lost out on Wayne. I know Wayne was in prison during part of this, but we lost out on his momentum. We lost out on a lot there because I feel like a lot happened from the Carter four coming out in 2011 to the Carter five coming out in 2018. I believe. There was so much back and forth. There was so much drama. You know, Drake was going on his all time run at that point. Nicki was doing the same. And the fact that the signature biggest artist is literally tweeting out, I want off this label, but it's not that easy. Or sending these messages out in the middle of Wayne and Drake having their tours and him still being on albums and trying to figure out how to drop things.I think it was obviously a great decade in run, but I think it could have been even greater if they were able to solve some of that stuff and figure it out. [00:44:11] Zack: Yeah, a hundred percent, you know, that that was like, it's a long time to be going between, proper albums, you know, so, and I think that was a really interesting time in the music business. And, I mean, the music business changed completely right from, from 2011 to 2018 from being, you know, oh, this new streaming thing is gonna be important to like, you know, it is the entire business basically. So, you know, and I think that an artist like Wayne, you know, as somebody whose music translates really well to, you know, to that medium. And, you know, as we know, hip hop is a monster on streaming and, you know, tends to do really well. So I would've been really curious to see if he had been able to continue that momentum, you know, just how much bigger he could have gotten in that period of time too.[00:44:57] Dan: Yeah, definitely. The next piece we add too, I think we talked a little bit about this just in terms of how did the label handle the transitions? And I think you just mentioned it there. They were able to do a lot of it well, especially the mixed day piece and the ring toes. And then I think a lot of it laid the work for streaming and Drake is streaming, did a lot of that, the Cash Money labels. So I think that worked. But this next question is interesting though, because it's been around three years, I think it's been at least three years since you did your deep story, the Forbes cover story on Cash Money, where you went down and interviewed them. And then I know it's been four years since I had written a piece around the time that Drake had completed Scorpion and we knew that it was going to be, or at least I thought the future may be bleak. And I think the question that you pose into the piece was, can they strike platinum again? It's been three years since now. What do you think? [00:45:48] Zack: You know, I don't know. I mean, the rules for platinum, like what constitutes platinum have changed so much that, you know, all it takes is, you get, you know, one hot signing and they do really well on streaming and suddenly you have a platinum whatever. And, you know, it's like, okay, I think that, you know, Drake is gone. Wayne is gone. When I went down there, they were really big on blue face and Jack Reese, you know, I don't know what either of them are turning out to be like, I mean anywhere near Drake, Nikki, Wayne, et cetera. Jack Reese is the king of R&B though, right? That was the whole thing too. So what I'm gonna go with, no, I don't think they will begin Drake Platinum. But I would caveat that by saying it doesn't matter because they can just sit back, and collect these checks. And that's gonna happen. That'll happen even if, you know Drake and Nikki and Wayne retire. I mean, their back catalog stuff is still gonna be a gold mine. And you know, when I was down there, what they said was that they're forever in business with Drake. But they wouldn't get more specific. And so what I took that to mean was, you know, at the time, you know, he was kind of an ex extra kidding himself. But even once he's gone, they're still sitting on these, you know, their share of the copyrights that will be, you know, Drake is a streaming king and they have a big piece of that. So, yeah. Do I think they'll strike platinum again? You know, probably not, but I don't really think it matters. I don't think so, what are they gonna do? Like what are they gonna do? They're gonna sit back and collect those checks. Yeah. [00:47:26] Dan: Yeah. I came to the same spot as well. I guess platinum in the purest sense of having a chart hit. Sure. There could be a legacy hit that gets, you know, some viral thing on TikTok and then that becomes a hit. Like, I don't know, I don't know if I like slow motion singles, like juvenile when platinum, but I feel like that's the type of song I could see go viral and some TikTok thing and then bring new, that's one of my cat favorite Cash Money songs. And I feel like I could see something like that happen. But I feel like you were kind of posing it more so in the moment of looking at these runs of like late two thousand, late nineties, early two thousands, that Cash Money is like a platinum moment or mid two thousands. Wayne's mixtape ran late two thousands, early 2010 or to mid 2010s. Young Money rises to the highest of heights. I don't think we'll see that moment again. And it's crazy cuz I think there's times where maybe things could have happened. You had the rich gang moment where he looked like he was so close with Young Thug. And I feel like especially in 2014, people expected Thug to go on to that superstar level and still be very successful. But I think that the stock for Thug at that moment was a little higher than it may be actually reached. And I think some of Thug's proteges kind of reached the heights that we thought Thug would've reached at one point, just in terms of a commercial success perspective. But it just never quite happened. But again, they own this. It's not like they missed some opportunity. This is something that is literally generating tens of millions per year and that's not changing anytime soon.[00:48:54] Zack: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, it's funny, they have, I guess just to sort of like switch gears a tiny bit, but you know, last moment when they said when Birdman and some said they're forever in business with Drake. It wasn't in Miami, but I met with them for some follow-up questions in New York. and they have, like within Universal's building in Midtown, they have a Cash Money conference route. Like there are actually these, I mean I don't think it's diamond play, but the door handles are giant dollar signs, like the Cash Money logo. And, and it looks like they're diamonds in the dollar sign and whatever it is. But, you open up the thing and you go in and there's like all these plaques on the wall and it's just a conference room that's always there. And it's sort of like their designated conference room when they, when they cut the tat. And I remember, yeah, we sat down in that conference room and I really tried to press them on the Drake thing. And I mean, if you dig up the Forbes story, we did a video too. And there's this great kind of tense moment where I'm like really kind of pushing them about it and they're like, we're forever in this with Drake. And like, that's it. And it's clear that's all you're gonna get out of that. But, you know, so, in terms of striking platinum again, yeah, I mean, I could almost envision a scenario where Drake like does the Super Bowl and he plays some, you know, catalog hit that never went platinum. And just purely by the exposure of people hearing it be like, oh man, listen that again, it just suddenly goes platinum again. You know, or for the first time. But yeah, short of that, I know I'm gonna agree with you. I think probably not again, but that it doesn't matter anyway. [00:50:32] Dan: Yeah. So we have a couple questions left here. This one, and I think it's maybe similar to the fourth you're bringing up, but if you were in Birdman and Slim's shoes today, is there anything that you would be doing differently?[00:50:44] Zack: You know what, I think I go back to that question of like, would you sell the whole thing? Especially if the prospects are kind of dimming a bit and, you know, it's like, I don't know though. I mean, you know, it's like if you're getting up there in age, like would you sell you, you know, you got this great house that you bought, you know, you got this great penthouse apartment in New York that you bought. For like, you know, a hundred thousand dollars in, you know, 1982. And, you could probably get, you know, I don't know, 10 million bucks for it. And then you could just like rent and do whatever you want and you know, for the rest of your life. But like, you don't really need the money. Like, you're fine as it is, like you sell it. Like what would you even do with the money that you got? You really love living in that apartment. Maybe you just stay. And I think that's kind of the point. Like, just remember being in the studio with Birdman and he doesn't need to be doing this. Like, he doesn't need to be running around with Jack in Miami trying to make him the, the king of r&b or whatever. But he truly loves it. Like you, you can tell that he's passionate about it and. After the interview was over, and I wish I had this on tape, but we're just like a dozen of us sitting there in the room. And, Birdman, he goes, Zack, why do people think I'm scary? And I remember he said, he was like, really pointy moment. He's like, I'm respectful. You know, I'm not a clown. I don't turn tables over. I don't scream and yell. I'm respectful. Why are people so afraid of me? And I thought for a minute and I said, you know, as like, look man, like, to be honest, I think the base tattoos really are kind of like off putting some people who are not used to that sort of thing. And, he was like, yeah, I've been thinking of getting them removed. You know, I think it'd be better for business. So, you know, it's like there's still this element of, you know, even though he's made it and he's got everything he wants, there's still this part of him that came from a different world. That, you know, he's kind of like still stuck between two worlds, between the world that he came up in and the world that he can afford to live in. And, I think, you know, where he feels at his best is in the studio. So why would you sell that whole thing? Why would you, you know, I mean, why would you kind of give that up? And I think Slim likes it too. And you know, they have this really funny relationship and, you know, Birdman's in the studio and Slim does live the business. And that's kind of the breakdown of it. And I just remember, like after this interview, you know, after leaving the studio, I went and we were all supposed to have dinner together and I went off with Slim and we waited for like a half an hour in the parking lot for Birdman. And he just never showed up. And then we went to dinner and he just never showed up. And it's cuz he wanted to stay in.He just stayed in the studio all freaking night. Cuz that's what he really loves. So, yeah, I guess it's a long way of saying, what would I do if I were them? I mean, you know, probably like the financial advisor advice would be. Sell this big thing and then you're totally set for the rest of your life. But you know, if it's throwing off enough, more than enough money, tens of millions of dollars every year for you to live on, what's the point? You know, why not just do that and do what makes you happy?[00:53:59] Dan: I think that's a piece that often gets for guys and understands what some of this stuff is, that some people really just love the craft. It makes me think too about someone like Martin Scorsese or Steven Spielberg and these directors that are now in their seventies or eighties, they're not doing these movies to try to make more money. Well, granted, yes, I think they're bought into the financial success. They want fair terms. But this is what they enjoy doing. They've been doing it since they were kids and they wanna just find outlets to be able to do this in the best way possible. And I think the same could be said about Birdman of wanting to be in the studio and just wanting to have that energy. And if you sell that, then what do you do? I think especially for someone like him that's stuck to the thing that he does well. And you know, like he isn't out here like Jay-Z trying to be mogul in the sense of having different things. I mean, there's a mogul aspect in terms of media ownership, but not in the sense of like, yes, I own this, I do this, I do that as well. Sure. Maybe there's some smaller things that are in the, you know, new Orleans or, or the Louisiana area, but not in that same way. So I do think that speaks a lot to that. [00:55:06] Zack: Yeah. And I think they have dabbled in other stuff for sure. And you know, real estate, and I think there was some period of time where they had like some oil rigs or something like that.They had a vodka called G T V. They were trying to really build up Y M C M B as like, as a clothing line type of thing, rather than just merch. But, you know, none of that really kind of like ever went viral in the way that any of their artists did. So, you know, and maybe because it was that they just didn't have the passion for it that they have for music. Like that example of Birdman. So, you know, Jay clearly has the passion for the business. He clearly has the passion for, you know, doing the champagne thing or, you know, doing the VC thing. And you can tell cuz he's out there doing it. He's doing it cuz he loves it, and he makes money. But, I think it's hard for something to do well if you aren't truly passionate. Because consumers can kind of see through that. And also, you're not gonna go the extra mile for something if you don't truly care about it either. Definitely. [00:56:08] Dan: Definitely. And mine is a little different. And this may be more so from a selfish perspective of what I would do, but that's part of the question, right? Yeah. As someone that is such a fan of the vibe and the culture that they were able to create, I want to be able to relive that in different ways. I wish that Birdman and the team could patch things up and there could be a true Cash Money reunion tour that goes across the country. I know there's been different things here or there, but the same way that Didat did the Big Bad Boy Arena tour in 2016. I wanna be able to see that. I'd love to be able to do that. And I also wanna see a music biopic and the same style and the same budget and energy of Straight Outta Compton. I would love to see that about the Cash Money story. And to be honest, I feel like, I know there's a lot of energy around these biopics, but like I may be biased because it's the genre I like since Street Outta Compton came out, I just haven't seen one that's, you know, as good as that. And sometimes it's a bit frustrating when I see movies like Bohemian Rhapsody or Elvis, which I think they're fine, but I don't think they're as good as Straight Outta Compton and they're getting all these awards and stuff. And it makes me think that okay, I don&#

It's triple trouble as Ryan, Dan, and Jake, take the stage and evaluate the importance of sifting people through post-call surveys.After a series of live calls, Ryan starts the discussion by asking what percent of the booked people really completed the surveys, and Dan dishes out the numbers. What follows is an exchange of Ryan and the Sandler boys on why sifting is very important to set your expectations and to ensure you are not wasting your time.Episode Highlights:% Completion of surveysSifting people through surveysNothing happens until you pick up the phoneQuotes to look out for:Ryan - Why we need to sift some people out:“There are people out there that just like an inbound are just gonna waste your time. So once you've said, okay, there may be a level of interest, but like adding that level of qualification, you're gonna get some fall off, of course, and friction, but those are probably people that you don't really want to talk to anyway is the idea the intention of the survey.”Dan - All you have to do is pick the phone to make it happen:“There are lots of opinions, but nothing happens until you pick up the phone, you get real data. And that's something you're really good at Ryan you'll look at the numbers next, something's broken here.”The Sandler Training Team:Dan “The Warrior” Bigelow: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-bigelow-80a43348/Jake “The Alba Pause” Alba: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-alba-b9b54a40/James McAllister: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jtmcallister/Connect with Ryan and follow him with the links below:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/salesdevelopmentrepresentative/Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/outbound-sales-no-fluff-the-podcast/id1551086628Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1in8poGtsAQvucRaUX2YUBOrder a printed copy of Outbound Sales No Fluff, download it on your Kindle, or download the Audiobook here: https://www.amazon.com/Outbound-Sales-Fluff-millennials-something-ebook/dp/B077Y49KF4Subscribe and hit that notification bell! 

Episode: Investing in Hotels with Mike StohlerGuest: Mike Stohler is a former commercial airline pilot, Navy veteran, and co-founder at Gateway Private Equity Group.  Including apartment complexes, houses, and hotels, Mike has owned or operated over 1300 units.  Seeking value-add opportunities and higher returns, Mike pivoted from multi-family to hotels and now focuses exclusively in this niche. Big Idea: Investing in Hotels is really a two-fold investment.  First you're investing in the real estate where the hotel is located.  Second, you're investing in the business of running that hotel successfully.  Because of this dual nature, hotel investing can be riskier than other real estate investments while offering larger & faster returns when executed properlyThis Episode of The REI Diamonds Show is Sponsored by the Kiavi- Kiavi Offers Reliable & Low Cost Fix & Flip Loans with Interest Rates as Low as 6.49%.  Buy & Hold Loans Offered Even Lower.  Get a FREE IPad when you Close Your First Deal by Registering Now at  http://REILineOfCredit.comResources mentioned in this episode:https://www.GatewayPE.com/For Access to Real Estate Deals You Can Buy & Sell for Profit:https://AccessRealEstateDeals.com/View the Episode Description & Transcript Here:https://reidiamonds.com/investing-in-hotels-with-mike-stohler/Dan Breslin: Today's guest, Mike Stohler, is a former commercial airline pilot, Navy veteran, and co-founder at Gateway Private Equity Group. Including apartment complexes, houses, and hotels, Mike has owned or operated over 13,000 units. Seeking value-add opportunities and higher returns, Mike then pivoted from multifamily to hotels and now focuses exclusively on this niche. Investing in hotels is really a two-fold investment. First, you're investing in the real estate where the hotel is located. Second and maybe more importantly, you're investing in the business that is running that hotel successfully. Because of this dual nature, hotel investing can be riskier than other real estate investments but at the same time offer larger and faster returns when executed properly.Dan: All right. To give some background, maybe you just want to start with the evolution of your real estate career and what your business looks like today.Mike: Sure. Yeah. I'll try to keep it quick. I'm a little bit older. I got started, I caught the PG days, the pre-Google days, and absolutely failed. I did probably what a lot of you did is I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, got excited, bought some tickets to seminar land, and then bam! Okay. I'm in small-town Indiana at the time. Buying was the easy part and then I didn't know how to be Atlanta[?]. I'm like, “Okay, wait, there's the paperwork? What's the least- get out. Oh, I need a 5-day notice[?]. I didn't know anything, right? I couldn't google anything. I failed and failed miserably just because I just didn't know what to do. We don't have podcasts. We don't have mentoring. We didn't have any of that back in the days.If I needed a tenant, it's like, what do I do? Put an ad in the newspaper, and it's the old day of doing things old way. Fast forward, now, what I did is I learned. I was like, “Man, this is the way that I need to do it. This is how you make money. Real estate is it.” I actually went to work for a property management group because I was like, that's the part that- the buying was the easy part, but how do I get experience? How do I get a mentor? I actually went and worked for them and I learned that end of it.I learned how to be a landlord because there are two parts of [inaudible]. You're an investor, but then once you get the asset, how do you become the landlord of someone who wants to stay in your asset? You have to learn both sides of it. That's what I did. Then I started in 20- about ten years later, this is probably 20- during the recession time period. I started getting back into it because I was like, “Okay, there's going to be some deals. I now have money. I have some cash. I have a good job. Let's get back into it.”Fast forward, I went from fourplex to 2 hotels, to 20 homes. I owned, managed around 1300 units of multifamily, and I did that within about a 7, 8 year time period.Mike & I Discuss Hotel Investment:• Repositioning Hotels while Enjoying Cash Flow• Site Selection-Finding the Right Location• Recognizing Profitable Hotels Post-Covid• Outsize Returns from Investing in Hotel DealsMike & I Discuss Hotel Investment:Repositioning Hotels while Enjoying Cash FlowSite Selection-Finding the Right LocationRecognizing Profitable Hotels Post-CovidOutsize Returns from Investing in Hotel Deals

Welcome Passive Traders to another special edition of the Option Genius Podcast. Today I have something a little bit different for you. I was interviewed on another show called "2 Bulls in A China Shop" by a company called Financial Ineptitude. That's actually their name,Financial Ineptitud. Basically, it's two guys. You know, there are really cool guys named Kyle and Dan, and they've been talking about trading for a little bit. They've been trying to learn how to trade and so they made this podcast to basically help them get their thoughts out, and to record all of their lessons. Their website is really cool. Their podcast is two bulls in a china shop and I'm going to include the interview that they had here as an episode because I thought it was really good. It was a lot of fun. And hopefully you guys will get something out of it and learn from it as well. So again, that's "2 Bulls in A China Shop" by Kyle and Dan. Enjoy the episode. We're so glad you've joined us today, folks, today is a very special day, we've got a fantastic guest with us. We're gonna be joined here by Allen Sama, Head Trader and owner of Option Genius. He is an Amazon bestseller author of the book Passive Trading: How to Generate Consistent Monthly Income from the Stock Market in Just Minutes a Day. And we're going to let you know more about that. But first, Allen, how are you doing today? Allen: I'm doing very well. Thank you very much. Kyle: Thanks for coming on. I know we had to work a little bit to get this. This recordin going. Allen: Yeah, better make it good. Allen: I'll do my best. Kyle: The more you work for it the sweeter to be right? Yeah, Dan: Yeah. No pain, no gain, Allen: The more you value it, right. Dan: Oh, right. So so tell us a little bit about your journey to becoming the Option Genius.  Allen: So I was born as a trust fund baby and I started with $20 million. Kyle: End of story. Allen: Exactly, then I made a course. And then I made a course and I started selling it. Dan: Make more money selling. Allen: Yeah. So I have a similar story to you guys. You know, I got laid off from basically the only job I ever had. And it was really about, hey, do I go back to finding another job than job market? Or do I try my hand at trading, which I had been starting to learn while I was working because I was working remotely. So it was a great job learned a lot. But it just came to an end. The business went under in the financial crisis. And so, you know, we were actually teaching mortgage brokers how to be mortgage brokers, mortgage brokers, they owe it away. So it's like they didn't need me anymore. And so I said, Alright, cool. Let me you know, try my hand at trading. And I took some of my wife's money, and I lost most of it roughly, for like 40- 43,000. Plus, very quickly. Dan: Oh you're kidding. Allen: And, you know, like you guys said, you know, you learn very quickly, what doesn't work and most of it doesn't work. Yeah, at least for me. Dan: I get to strangled to work one day. Allen: Yeah. And so really, the, the best thing for me was that, you know, she had, she had faith in me, and she, she's like, you know, you need to make this work. And so I went back, and that kind of really put a fire under my ass. And then I looked at all my records, because I keep paper records of all my trades, write down everything. And so I found that, you know, I was doing day trading, and I was doing this and I was doing that buying and selling and value and I was trying everything, you know, there was one time where I was long, the inverse ETFs you know, SDS and SSO. So SSO is the two 2X S&P Going up, and SDS is 2X going down. So I was long on both of them. I was like, I can't lose. Right? Yeah, it's like the only trade that I can't lose on but guess what I did, I ended up losing money on that trade. Dan: You're telling my story, Allen. You're telling my story. Kyle: This all sounds so familiar. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel that it sounds like you.. Allen: Because the only thing that worked for me was selling options. And I had done at least one trade where, you know, I put it on, didn't really know what I was doing. But I followed it. And I put it on and I forgot about it. And then it it was in my paper records, but it wasn't in my account. And I'm like, where to go. My broker scamming me, you know, that should be here, you know, I put the trade on, where's my trick, and I kept researching, and then I realized that that trade had expired, worthless, and it just had gone away. So it doesn't show up on the screen anymore. And there's no exit record. And so I was like, Well, this is cool. You know, this is something that I didn't pay any attention to. And I made, you know, a good decent amount on it. And I didn't like it was easy. So I'm like, What is this thing? So I learned more and I dug deep into it. And we went into covered calls and naked puts and spreads and iron condors and, and all these different ones. And eventually I found that, um, you know, these type of trades are a lot more forgiving. So if you're not the most savvy, technical analysis like me, and if you're always buying at the wrong time and selling at the wrong time, getting all emotional like me, then this really was something that was much easier to do and, you know, you probably hear it If you talk about it, but it's like you put the odds in your favor. So it's a little bit, I think it's more conservative. But it's a lot more passive in the sense where I don't have to be in front of the screen all the time, I'll put a trade on, and then just check it and make sure it's okay. And that Theta decay just works in my favor. So the time decay, meaning the options go down in value, you know, every day as they should. And then eventually they expire. And when they expire, then the trade is over. Kyle: So what kind of time frame are usually looking at when you're selling your contracts? Allen: Well, I'm in different strategies now. But usually, I'm going around 45 days to about 25 days. Kyle: You basically just rolling monthly, the monthly. Allen: Yep. So I'll stay in two months. And then if I get out, then I'll be like, okay, good down. Let me look at next month, sometimes I get out early, and I'll take, you know, take a week or two off, I'm not doing anything. And then, but most of the time, yeah, it's you know, you're getting out of one and then you're getting into the next one. Kyle: Are you just doing these cover calls? Are you doing spreads? Or what are you doing to cap your, your, your losses, because we selling options? Contracts can be really dangerous.. Allen: Mm hmm. So we do a little bit of all of them. You know, I've been doing it now for 15 years. So I started with the iron condor, because that that, Oh, my God, this is awesome. You know, you can make money on both sides, and the stock doesn't move too much. And it's a trade that can't lose. Obviously, I found out that yeah, you can lose. But I mean, it's probably the most complicated trade you can start with. And that's the one I did and then I got, you know, I got good at it. And then I did look at covered calls, we did that for a while still do them now in my. So let me break it down, in my retirement accounts, I do covered calls, naked puts, and some spreads. And the spreads are really there to just goose the returns. Because in those I'm looking for about 10% a month, the covered calls naked puts, I'm looking for one to 3% in the retirement accounts. And then in my trading account, I do spreads iron condors. And then I also do a little bit of futures options. So those are a bit more, they got a lot more oomph to them, because there's more leverage involved. And so they're faster. They're very, they're much faster trade. So I'm in and out, usually around two weeks, about 14 trading days. Kyle: Before we get too deep into here, maybe we should kind of talk, can you explain, let's start with an iron condor. And maybe just real quick recap of what a spread is. Allen: Sure. So a spread and the way I trade them is I want to be selling the spread. And so it is something that where you take an option that is far out of the money, you sell that one, and then you buy another one a little bit further out of the money to hedge yourself. So it's a risk defined trade, meaning you know, exactly "Okay, I'm gonna put in, you know, $500 into this trade, or 1000, or 5000", or whatever you put, that's the most you can lose. And then you get a credit for doing it, meaning you get paid when you put the trade on. That credit is the most you can make. So now on the spreads that I do. So for example, let's say we have a stock that just going up and up and up and up. Right now, I like to play the trend, I like to play momentum. And so if it's going up and up and up, I'm going to sell calls. So I'll sell a call spread, I'll get paid for that. As long as the stock doesn't go below my calls, my trade makes money. And on those types of trades, I'm looking for about 10%, like I said, on a monthly basis. My iron condor would be doing that trade with puts and calls on the same stock at the same time. So you want, in that situation, you kind of want something that's going sideways, you want a stock or an index or something that's, you know, it's not moving too much. It's kind of lazy moving sideways, and so you sell some puts below it, and some calls above it. And so that way, you get paid for both you get paid for the calls, and you get paid for the puts. But you don't have to, you're not risking both sides, because you can only lose on one side. You know, so you have the same amount of risk as if you just did a one sided spread, but you get double the credit so you make twice as much money. Kyle: Right. Oh, I was found that the more complicated things get the worse I do at them. We'll have some links in the episode description explaining those a little bit better to anybody.  Dan: Yeah, I'll need to follow those. Yeah. Kyle: So you're looking to generate about 10%. 10% A month or return on your investment then? Allen: Yep, that's it. Yep, that's it go. I mean, you don't always get there, right? You're going to have months where you make less, there's going to be months when you lose money. So if I aim for 10, you know, I can think hey, you know, if I get five for the month, I'm happy. You know, that's 60% a year. That's that's pretty good. Yeah. So I cannot complain. There have been there have been years when I've done over 100% And then there'll be two years when I've lost money. So, but overall for the past 15 years. It's been working really, really well for me, so you know. Kyle: Yeah, it sounds like you're Your path kind of took the same path that mine actually took, like, that was what led me to quit my job is thinking like, I could sell contracts because you know, 80% of them or whatever, expire worthless, rather be on the side that has the math with it. And I'll just, I'll just basically trade the wheel and sell puts, you know, until I get the stock and then calls against it until they get taken away. Success has been mixed so far, but still not working. So. Oh, really? Well, we could talk about that. Well, it sounds like I need to read your book is what it really sounds like. Allen: Yeah, I mean, you know, right now, we're in a bull market. And so the puts that we've been doing the selling the puts, I mean, it's been, it's been working phenomenally, um, covered calls are doing well, as well, because we go pretty far out of the money. So like, you know, it's not always 80%, sometimes I'll go 85, 90 95%, depending on what I want to do. So in my retirement accounts, I don't want to lose my stock. And so I'll sell pretty far out of the money. So I'm not making as much on those. But I don't want to lose my stock. And I'm just looking for a little bit, you know, I'm looking for, you know, 1%, one and a half percent, maybe a month, and I'm happy with that. And so the naked eye, you know, it's also stock selection. And I think that's one of the issues that a lot of people get mistaken. People say that, "Oh, when you're selling options, you should be looking at the ones that are the most volatile names, because they have the most premium, and you get paid the most". To me, I think that's like a suicide mission. And, and I just want to be the, I just want to save ones that are boring, that are you know, everybody ignores them. You know, I like the small, the large, very large companies, they pay dividends, they don't move very much. Those are the ones I just want to cash flow, you know, I just want to be selling naked puts on them, they're not gonna drop 10%. If they do, it's like, it's like the, oh, my God, this thing dropped 10%. You know, that's good news. So I want to sell those, and I want to keep them and collect the dividends and then just get my cost basis down as far as I can get. Dan: Do you have a favorite company then that you find yourself going back to more than others? Allen: I like stuff like McDonald's, Walmart, Starbucks, you know, big names. Everybody's known them there around the world, they have dividends so you know, that they're if they're paying the dividend, they're still profitable. They're making money. You know, Apple is kind of joining that list, although Apple is still a little bit more volatile than the others. But yeah, stuff like that, you know, basic big name, dao components, most of them, one of them that I really liked, that hasn't has been doing really well over the past few years is Intuitive Surgical. It's is ISRG so it doesn't pay dividends. And it's not good. It doesn't have a lot of option volume, but for credit for covered calls, and naked puts it's good enough. And that stock has been doing really, really well for me for the last few years. So that's a particular name. Kyle: So yeah, some of these are pretty expensive, though. I mean, yeah, you gotta be real careful, you don't get stuck with a couple 100 shares, if you don't have the account to cover that. Allen: Yeah. So in that case, you know, what we can also do is you can always roll them. So if I get into a position where I'm sold a naked put and it goes into the money like I've done this with right now, my kid loves Roblox. I don't know if you have kids, but my kids are always on that game. And I was when it came out. I was like, Oh, this is cool, you know. So I sold some naked puts on it. And now they're in the money, and they've been in the money for like three months. So what I do is I just roll them to the next month. So about maybe a week or so before expiration, I will buy back the put the naked put and then sell it again for the next month, collect a little bit more premium, and then the trade just continues. Kyle: Hmm, that's interesting. Yeah. Wow, I didn't even think about doing that. That's awesome. Okay, so roll it over. I'm making notes for myself.  Allen: Now, these are on stocks that you actually think are eventually going to go back up, you know, if it's still going down, down, down, then you're like, No, you need to bail out and be like, yeah. But if it's a decent company with decent, you know, fundamentals, and you know, they're making money and all that stuff, then yeah, Kyle: I've always gravitated towards the cheaper stocks when trying to sell contracts, just because at least if I'm selling, and they could put on something that's only valued at like, $15, then I know I can't lose more than $15 a share. Allen: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, like, my thinking is that I want to be in a company that I know is not going to zero, so I don't have to worry about it. Kyle: I mean, Ford for a while is trading around 15. It's at 18. Now, but yeah, I know for some solid companies that are in that range, right? There's a lot of other ones that aren't though. Allen: Like if it was a $200 stock, and now it's at 15 There's another issue going on there. Dan: Hertz is coming back. Good PR story. Damn it. Kyle: I'm gonna go back to losing $40,000 of your wife's money. So what were you doing that got you like we tried to day trade options were you.. Allen: I was doing a little bit everything I was day trading stocks, I was buying options. I was buying and selling like I was doing some value investing for a little bit. I'll be watching Kramer every night and looking at what's Kramer telling me to do. Okay, I'm gonna do this and that I would watch fast money every day and look for any anything that sold this is going up okay, hey, copper is going up. Let me buy some you know, SPX. Let me buy some of this. So trying to play the trend is trying to play all that stuff. I looked at futures, you know, trading futures a little bit, but that's,  that takes a lot of money. Kyle: There's no it actually takes less than you think. Really? $4,000 you can fund and account. Allen: Yeah, but then I mean, like you got Japanese. Japanese yen that takes that's a lot of money for a contracts. Dan: Okay, Yen is in micros now. Allen: Yeah, at that time, they didn't. They didn't I don't think they had those. Kyle: Probably. Yeah, I think minis were kind of new thing. Yeah. Allen: But yes, I was trying a little bit everything, whatever I could, whatever book I could find whatever video I could find. Just trying a little bit everything in nothing, nothing really worked for me. Kyle: So what was it that actually got you out of that? That, I guess Funk You can call it. Allen: So until for several months, my wife did not know that I was losing all the money. You know, she'd come home. And she actually, I mean bless her heart, she took a second job. So she's working two jobs while I'm at home trading. And, and we didn't have any kids at the time. So that was good. But you know, she she'd come home tired, and she wouldn't really want to talk about it. Because sometimes I'd be happy sometimes I'd be sad. She really couldn't tell what was going on. And then one day, she checked the mail and the account statement had come in the mail. And she's like, where's all the money?    Dan: Oh, no.    Allen: And I was like, Yeah, we need to talk about that. And then I feel, you know, I could tell that, you know, the marriage was on the ropes because we were newly married, and she had saved up for years working to save up this money. And so it was really a matter of, you know, I promise you that I will give me three months. That's what it boiled down to. So give me three months, I promise you, I will at least get back to breakeven or like, you know, not lose money every month, and then I'll start making it back. And if I don't, I'll get a job. So that was it. That was my ultimatum, I had three months to turn it around, or go back to, you know, the 9 to 5 grind.   Kyle: So I gotta ask you, one of the things that took us a while to learn was basically the number one job of being a trader is risk management. So what point during that journey did that finally kick it in your head? Risk is the most important thing. So you don't end up blowing up an account like that. Allen: It didn't really hit me for a long time, even after I started getting a little bit consistent. Really? Yeah. Kyle: That's interesting. Allen: You know, I kept going gung ho blazes forward until maybe like a year, year and a half. of really, you know, trading full time. The one thing the benefits of the selling options is that they're not that many losses, you know, you don't lose on too many trades, because it's set up to to help you win. And so that kind of helped me, but I would, I would have these huge losses, like if I'm making 10% on a trade, the idea was not to lose more than 25 to 30%. But I would be losing, you know, 40% 50% 60%. And I just couldn't get out of that hole. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you the secret. What turned it around. It was my wife, yeah. So she's like, cuz I was talking to her at this point. I'm like, Hey, this is working. This is not working. I'm doing this. I'm doing that. She goes, You know, it seems like you have everything you need. You're just not sticking to your own trading plan. Right? Yeah. Cuz I get emotional. You know, I think he's gonna turn around. I think he's gonna do this. But then, you know, CNBC said this, and then fox said this, and so she's like, oh, let's do this. She goes, I'm gonna come and check on you every day at a certain time and we're gonna go through each trade. And I'm gonna ask you questions, and then you have to answer. I'm like, Okay, let's do it. So she would come up, you know, she'd come upstairs to the office. And she'd be like, Alright, show me your trade. Alright, what's the goal? How much are you trying to make? Alright, where's it now? What's the trading plan? What happens if it goes down? You know, when are you going to adjust it? Or when are you going to get out? And then if I haven't gotten out yet, or if I haven't adjusted, then I have to answer why. Why? Yeah. And if I don't have a good answer, get out now. Allen: That's, that's really awesome, actually. So you just delegated your risk manager hat to your wife. Allen: Pretty much. And then, you know, there were times where I didn't want to have her breathing down my neck anymore. And so that's when I got better at it myself. And then, you know, after a while, she was like, Hey, I think you got it. You don't need me anymore.   Kyle: I know you say that you think that you're blessed to be to be able to do a dream job of earning money in the stock market and working in your PJs, but I think you I think you hit the lottery twice. It sounds like you really married a great woman. Allen: Oh, yes, I did. I did. And she hates me. He's telling this story about how I lost her money, she hates. She's like, you sound like such an idiot like a dumbass.  Allen: Yep. I think we all go through it. We all do it. Dan: Nobody just started out and just like, oh, every trade I've made. It's been great. What's your problem? Kyle: No, most people will blow up an account too. And that's why the things that we've been learning is, Dan and I are both trying to learn futures. So we're going through some courses with the trade pro Academy. I think we're I think Dan just flipped the live today, in week four now. But one of the main things with that is like, Okay, we fund the minimum amount we need in that account in case something goes wrong. You know, the most we can lose is whatever's in that account. Yeah, we're not going to fund it with you know, the life savings and then give ourselves you know a hundred thousand dollars  a full wrap with,   Allen: Yeah but the cool thing is, you know, you guys have each other to bounce ideas off to talk to, you know, a lot of people try to do it on their own. And they're just like, I did you know, I was lonely. I was doing, I couldn't figure out what was wrong. It didn't have anybody to talk to. Because I mean, you tried to talk to your neighbor, or your friends or your family like, oh, yeah, hey, I sold a, you know, a call spread. And they're like, "What? What the hell are you talking about?" I couldn't talk to anybody, so it's awesome that you guys have somebody. Kyle: Well, actually, I think the podcast for us is actually but what's taking the role of the wife explaining the moves? I mean, at the end of every episode, we do a good, bad and ugly segment where we talk about something that worked something that didn't work and something that was really bad. Allen: Yeah that's accountability. Right there. You got to tell the world. Kyle: So now, yeah, when you're getting ready to do something stupid, you're like, how do I really want to talk about this on Saturday? Okay, I'm looking at their your, your, your sheet here that you said this. And one of the things that I see on here that's really interesting is that you made a small investment for your four year old. Yep. What's the deal with that? Allen: Alright, so the biggest thing that I've been learning by talking to people and everything is that people are not people don't have enough saved for retirement. You know, that's like the one biggest thing and people come to us, and they're like, Hey, I, you know, I'm in my 50s, I just got laid off, you know, what am I gonna do? I don't know what to do. I got to figure out how to trade. I'm like, well, you're under a lot of pressure. I don't know if this is the right time, right. And so I didn't want my kids stuff to go through that. So currently, my wife has another business. Mm hmm. And so what we did was, we have three kids, we got a 10 year old nine year old and now she's five. So the little one is five. At that time, she was four, when we started this actually know when she was born is when we started this. So we took the kids, and we found a way for them to earn some money. And basically, we did it as we were their models. So they model and we take pictures of them for advertising, for our website, the brochures for my wife's business. And so the kids get paid for it. And that money then goes into their Roth IRA. Okay, so that they have no, there's no taxes, there's no income taxes on that money that they that they make, right? Because they're minors, and there's a certain limit, so I'm not an accountant. So don't, you know, none of us are, I don't think but when we started, you know, the rule was you can make up to 12,000 As a child, and it would not be taxed. And then you know, who knows what if that's going to change anytime soon, but we could pay them take that money, put 6000 into the Roth IRA. Now, you know, She's five years old. So we've been doing that for a few years. And currently, she has about $50,000 in her account. Now, you, you can look at, you know, you can do the math on any investment calculator. She's five years old, she's gonna retire in 60 years. So you take that 50,000 invested in let's say, an index fund, and you make 8% a year. Right? Compounded for 60 years. How much is she going to have at the end of that? 60 years? It's going to be well over $2 million. Right? That's if I don't put any more money into it. Yep. If she never touches it, she doesn't put anything else. You know, she's gonna have a $2 million retirements on when she when she's done. And, and that's without me doing any of my options stuff or, you know, doing anything.  Dan: There I say better than a college account fund. Allen: Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I mean, part of it is, you know, the money, she's gonna when she takes it out, she, when she retires, she won't have to pay any taxes on it. So we made the money, we didn't pay any taxes on it, she's gonna grow the money and not have to pay any taxes on and then she takes it out and there's so there's like no tax at all. It's like the only loophole I've seen like this.   Kyle: We might need to bleep some of that out just in case. That's interesting. We saw a story not too long ago about a senator proposing a bill to like, and I don't think there's any traction on the actual bill. But what was interesting was the math behind it. He said that I think it was about $2,200 for every newborn, put into an account for him, like that will basically make them retire as millionaires.  Allen: Yeah. I mean, if you start early enough, and you put it away, and you don't touch it, it just compounds and it works. And hopefully, it'll be at the same, you know, average at least 7 - 8% a year that the stock markets been doing historically. So you know, of course, things change in the future. We don't know. But I'm trying to just set these kids up in a way that can help them succeed, you know, and if you if you think about it, like if she doesn't have to worry about saving for retirement, then whatever she makes, she could like, enjoy it. She could give back to our community. She can you know, spend it do it everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Dan: Take care of you hopefully.. Kyle: That's smart. Allen: Yeah, that's the plan. Yes, that's my retirement. Kyle: Tell us a little bit about your company Option Genius. What do you guys do over there? Allen: So it started off as so when you sell options, you know, it's kind of boring. It's very, like I said, it's passive. It takes just a few minutes to put on a few trades, and then just watch him watch and watch. And so when I started doing it, I got bored. And so I would go and I would bother my wife. Hey, what you doing? What do you do? Oh, you're cooking that again? Oh, no. She's like, can you just get out of my hair? And I'm like, Well, no, cuz I don't have anything else to do. She goes, Why don't you like, teach other people how to do what you're doing? Oh, that's a good idea. So I started a website. And the idea was, you know, I'm gonna have one website, and I'll just do my trades, and I'll share them with other people. It'll be a membership site, they'll pay me for it. If they want to do the trades, great. If they want to learn, that's great, whatever. And, you know, hands off kind of thing that started doing really well it started growing and people start asking questions. How do you do this? How do you do? What about this strategy? What about this strategy, and it just grew from one website to many of them three. Now we have three different memberships, we got like three different courses and coaching programs, we got a couple of books out there to spread the word. And eventually, I got to the point where you know what, the emails that we would get from people would be so heartbreaking, that it's like, there's this better way that I think are found, and people don't know about it. Let me, let me expose let me share the message. And so that's really behind what Option Genius is. I mean, you know, not to brag, but you know, I'm trading a seven figure account. And so if I can make, you know, two or 3% on that in a month, I'm living a really, really nice lifestyle. You know, I don't, I don't have a private plane, I don't have a Lambo. I don't need any of that stuff. So we're really doing well. And so this is like, if it works great. If we can help other people great. If not, I can walk away. I don't need it. But we've we've been doing it for a while. And we've really, it's heart warming. When somebody comes in, oh, man, I just did my first trade. And I made 10% Oh, man. And we have we have our own podcast. And I've started to interview our students. And so they come on board. And they're like, you know, I had a small account, but we got one guy. He, we gave him a scholarship. Like every year, we have a scholarship to one of our courses. So he actually won the scholarship. And he's like, you know, I have a small account. It's like $4,000. And he's a teacher. And he does now what you were talking about the wheel. So he learned that from us, and he's doing it. And he's like, hey, you know, I made 30% this year from my wheel. So that goes awesome. Yeah. There's other guys. They're making, like 7, 8% 10%. We had one guy who came in, he lost his job. And then he's like, Hey, I'm in your program. What do I do? I'm like, do the follow up program. You paid for it. He started doing it, you know? And seven months later, he's like, Yeah, dude, I'm making 10 grand a month. I'm like, That's freaking awesome. And he goes, You know what he told me? He goes, I'm going back to work. I'm like, what? He goes, because it doesn't take any time. And I want to go back to work. Whatever floats your boat. Kyle: Learn a different skill. I mean, I guess that's what you want to do. I guess. It's funny though. The more people that we talk to, especially the ones that are really successful, that seems like they all want to give back somehow to the community. Allen: Mm hmm. Kyle: That seems to be a common theme and I don't really think see that in a lot of other industries. Allen: No. I mean, there's only so much money you can make, and it doesn't really make you that much happier anymore. But when you can like to have, you know, the Maslow's hierarchy with a triangle going up to be like self actualized you gotta have significance you got to give back. Mm, Dan: Yeah that's awesome. Oh, boy. Awesome. Okay. Allen: But I mean, you guys are doing that, you know, the podcast, and you guys are helping  Dan: We hope Kyle: Mostly they're learning what not to do. Allen: There's value in that as well. Kyle: Yeah, I think that was our tagline once "Let us lose the money for you". Dan: Oh, yeah, yeah, I've proven myself capable of that time and time again. Mm Kyle: hmm. All right, what else we got on here? And Dan got any other questions here? Dan: Yeah, so when you're starting out some people I mean, I know you mentioned you get somebody started as low as four grand Do you do you give people like a target, like try and get this much money together to start the ball rolling, or you just.. Allen: Um, you know, we say, we say, if you're going to do what we call passive trading, they can start with anything. But if you're going to go into something like just spreads or like futures options, and we say, start with about 10,000. But even then, you want to start off with paper trading, especially if you've never traded options before, because you need to, you need to know what buttons to push and you know, you don't want to hit the wrong button. Instead of the sale, you hit the buy. And it goes backwards. And you got to know what you're doing on the platform, the software, the broker software, before you start putting real money at risk. Dan: Yeah. Kyle: Is there a specific broker that you prefer? Allen: I have most of my money at Thinkorswim and tasty, but it doesn't really matter. Kyle: We've been getting more into Thinkorswim too. Yeah like their their bracket order than other options bracket. It took us a year to figure out the Active Trader even know it existed. But man that made a huge difference. Huge. Oh, you can just drag your stops. Dan: But that's more day trading options. Well, yeah. Well, we talked a little bit real quick, do you ever use the the ThinkOrSwim probabilities when you're looking at selling your options? Allen: Um, so we have a couple of different ways. I use the the desktop Thinkorswim Yeah. And so like, uh, you know, if you're looking at an option, right, you look at the option chain, and it tells you what the delta is, you can pretty quickly find out what is the probability of that option. So if it's delta 20, that means okay, this still this option has an 80% chance of probability of expiring worthless. If it's delta 10. It's got a 90% probability of expiring worthless. So that's kind of like rule of thumb, really quick table math, you know, where you could be like, Okay, I want to do this, or I'll look at the Analyze tab. You know, if it's a more complicated trade, then I'll look at the Analyze tab, and I'll use the numbers that they give me there. Dan: Okay. Okay. I remember that for a little bit with straddles and strangles. But I didn't have much success. Kyle: I think I heard that before with the Delta, but I never I pay attention to it more, because that's tell you how much the underlying will move, right? Like for every dollar that the  underlying moves, then you should see a 30 cent change if it's a 30 Delta, or 20 cent if it's 20. Allen: Yep. But I mean, I don't know how accurate that is, because it always changes all the time. So.. Kyle: Yes, that's true. Allen: It's like I thought it was gonna move 30 cents. Well, your Vega did this and the gamma did that. So. Okay, great. Thanks. Kyle: Plus, now the delta is different. Yeah. We started talking a little bit about crypto. Dan, should we move into move into that? Dan: I would love to talk about it, especially coming from somebody who educated their way into Options success. Do you have anything going with crypto? Allen: So I have been taking advantage of a couple times. We could talk about that. So I'm learning about currently a friend of mine introduced me to I guess they're called alt coins. You know, so I do have some of the big ones, you know, the Bitcoin, the Etherium whatnot. And those I've just holding on to so and then I just started because I have a lot of it. I have it at Coinbase. And so I've put up my Etherium for it was called staking or stocking. Kyle: Staking Allen: Oh, yes. Staking. Yeah, so they hold it on, they hold it for you and they pay you four and a half percent a year. So I'm like, Okay, I'm not gonna sell anyway, I might as well make some most of it. And I think, you know, it's been going up and up. So hopefully by the time I actually want to take it out, it's appreciated. And I will It'll made that four and a half percent, which is pretty good. And so I'm doing that. And then I'm starting to get into these alt coins and trying to figure out which ones are actually going to make it big. And which ones are scams and about, I guess 99% of them are scams. And like so my friends been showing me like, hey, you know, you can tell how much money was used to create this coin, and then are they allowed, are you allowed to sell coins? Or you're not allowed to sell coins? Or you know, what are the different little red flags that go hey, this coin is a scam this coin is a scam this coin maybe not be a scam. You know? And so you know, you put your money in and then if it goes up a little bit, you take your money out, and then you'll play with the house money and then you let it right kind of thing. Kyle: Yeah. So which coins have you found that piqued your interest then? Allen: So the one that I'm getting into right now, I haven't got like I'm pretty new at this. So I'm still learning and looking around. The one that I have found that has a good chance of success right now is called Floki. Kyle: Floki. Like the Norse god. Allen: Uh huh. Yeah Kyle: The trickster god. Allen: Yeah. Floki dot INU Floki.INU. And so his symbol is a dog with the viking helmet.  Okay. So it's it's one of the meme coins, but they're doing a ton of advertising. They're coming out with some actual use for the coin soon. You know, so that one has already gone up in value a lot. And there's probably a lot more to go in my opinion. So that's one that I'm going into. Kyle: What's one that you're that you found some red flags on them? Allen: There's been a bunch. The names I don't know off the top my head but there was one. Oh, it's like world peace earth or something like that. You know, there's like, so there's so many of them. There's like, they call them weird names. Whatever's trending at the moment like just endgame coin and Avengers coin. Dan: Oh, I just read a story that the squid game coin is apparently the creators fleeced everybody. What? Kyle: What, what's your thoughts on hamster coins? Jack Dorsey's favorite. He thinks that's gonna overtake Etherium. Allen: Oh, really? I haven't heard of that one. Dan: Nobody has. Kyle: Nobody has, I know. Dan: Don't listen to Jack Dorsey. That's all I have to say. Allen: I mean, you know, it's so it's, it's like the Wild West is full of gambling. And you know, the guy that teached me about it. He's like, Yeah, you know, we probably have maybe another year or two years before this all this stuff gets regulated. And all these alt coins are just gone.  Kyle: It's kind of started already to Yeah, Mm hmm. I think didn't I see something about the SEC getting authority over was stable coins, stable coins just issued today. Allen: Oh, that's today. Okay. Dan: Biden said if you don't do it, we'll issue an executive order to make it happen? So it's on the way? Yeah, it's happening. They're there. They're the beginnings of regulation. Or I should say not like, we won't get there for a bit.  Allen: So because I mean, we think that, you know, the people behind these coins are like, really sophisticated and smart developers, and they spent all this time and effort, you know, creating a coin. It costs like $1 to make a coin. Kyle: Yeah. Dan and I were actually looking at making our own. Yeah, the two bowls going. Allen: You know, so it's like, yeah, it doesn't take a lot. And it's pretty simple. And people, they're, like, new coins come out every like five minutes. There's a new board. And so it's like, geez, yeah, you're Kyle: Constantly fighting that delusion.  Allen: Mm hmm. So it's interesting. It's something that is, you know, I'm playing with it. But it's money that I can afford to lose. And the bread and butter is still, you know, stock market options trading. Kyle: That's why I was gonna ask you what I mean, because now that you have a real risk manager side to you, like, what's your, how do you limit your risk then onto that? I'm assuming you do it based on like, a small percentage of your portfolio or like this is probably just play around money, right, especially when you're learning? Allen: Yeah. Yeah. So um, you know, I bought 30 grand of Ethereum. And that's is what I'm about to put at risk and all this stuff. So, but some of these coins like they're brand new, right? So they're little, and they can go up 500, 800, 10000% and then they will back down. Yeah. You can have a really big move. And some of the people that I know, they've this year, this past year, and this is why I got into it, because they took like really small amounts, and they've made you know, they have a million dollars or $5 million, or $3 million worth of cryptocurrencies. And I was like, why aren't you selling, you know, yeah. And then they go off and they're like, Well, you know, it's gonna go up more and you know, I gotta pay taxes. I don't want to pay 50 2% taxes or more moved to Puerto Rico and so they have all their reasons for.. Dan: Transfer for a more stable one. Allen: Mm hmm. Kyle: Dan just had this same conversation with a couple of his friends. Dan: Yeah, yeah, mate. Yeah. Kyle: 50% on the latest dip on Bitcoin and then refuses to sell any Kyle: It's 10% Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's like like you're saying like, take your money out. Let let it be house money. Yeah, exactly. Not getting risk on anything come on.  Kyle: And then you got money to reload because it drops again. Yes, I want to have some ammo laying around the to jump into something when the opportunity strikes Allen: Yep. Now I think you guys are you guys are traders you know you guys are watching the markets, you guys are there in the front of the screen, I'm not that much into it, you know, I'll keep my screen open but I'm not checking all the time. And so for me that's a little bit harder. And so, you know, I for my bitcoin and Etherium or whatever I'm not, I'm not selling, you know, even if it dips or goes up, I'm not selling I know I'm gonna hold it for another maybe 10-15 years. So hopefully it keeps going up, but we'll see how it goes. But for now the idea was, hey, just buy it, hold it. And if it keeps going up maybe you add a little bit here and there. So I've been doing that.  Dan: No,but yeah, that's your plan. It's a long term plan. You're not trying to strike it rich the people that are buying into these things trying to strike it rich and then refusing to ever sell. Allen: Oh, that's silly. Yeah Dan: Yes. Like you gotta get paid some point Allen: There was one guy on the had an article where he became a Dodge coin millionaire and he's like, I'm not selling like.. Dan: Oh, no, not a millionaire anymore. Allen: What's the point? Dan: You never were a millionaire, coz you never sold. Kyle: Exactly. Have you come across anything? I guess staking is kind of similar to derivatives. But like, If there comes a time where you can sell calls on your Bitcoin you can do something like that.  Allen: So yeah, so they just came out with, is it bati? I forget the name of it.  Dang it. The the first ETF Bitcoin ETF just came out. Dan: That's Yes, that's right. Um, that was a futures based one too, though, isn't it? Allen: Bitl. There we go. So, that's tradable. And that that has options. So, you know, right now it's at $39. I don't know if that's cheap enough for your wheel. But.. Dan: I think what cuz that's if that's based around a futures contract, it's going to be constantly losing money too overtime, right? Allen: Probably. Dan: Won't you get like double decay if you. So decay of the futures contract. And every time, Allen: Yeah every time they roll it forward a month they lose, right? Because I have all the fees and stuff to pay. So that is something.. Dan: That might be a really good one to sell Options. Allen: Yep. So I mean, I, you know, I've sold some calls on it, because I was like, Okay, if bitcoin goes up, and they're saying, you know, bitcoins gonna be 100,000 by the end of the year, I was like, Okay, I'll sell some calls on it. And or no, sorry, I'll buy some calls. I bought some calls. This is one of the few ones where I'm actually buying calls. Now that trade is still negative. But you know, it's a bet, you know, it's a bet. If it goes up, great. Dan: Yeah, just manage that risk. Allen: Mm hmm. Dan: So let's wrap things up with I want to ask you some questions about just some of the most common mistakes that you see from your students, or just the biggest struggles that they have and how they had to overcome those. Okay, yeah. So if you're going to give us like, just the top couple pitches, see? Allen: Okay, so first off, I would say is that they try to do too much too soon. And so one of the things that I always stress is, Hey, pick one strategy that fits who you are. And just focus on that one strategy, get really good at it, hammer it, do back testing, or get some back testing software, pay for it if you have to, and just do trade after trade after trade after trade until you understand it, until it's like, you know, second nature to you and you're consistently profitable. Only at that time, should you then venture off and say okay, let me add another strategy. Right. So that's the that's the first thing that I tell everybody a second thing is not all strategies are for every person. Mm hmm. Like for me if you told me Hey, you know, I'm gonna put a gun to your head and you have to be be profitable at futures trading, or be like well, you know, goodbye Allen: You know, tell my wife I love here. you know, telling her that life insurance is very well Allen: So it's not for me, you know, my temperament my style, the way I I am the risk temper the the risk appetite that I have is different than everybody else. And so you got to figure out what strategy and there's 1000 strategies and there's every every strategy out there you can make money there are people out there making money with futures day trading and, and Options on futures and, you know, pairs trading and whatever you can think of people are doing it, some of them making money, most are not, but if you find the thing that fits you and you're like, you know what, this this really, really makes sense to me, I really get this, then that's the one that you should focus on. Most people are just like, Oh, hey, you know, I found my friend is doing this or I can make a lot of money doing this or I saw an advertisement, I saw an email, and then they run into it, and then they get blown out of the water. Dan: We actually just had a discussion on that not too long ago, Dan, about, you know, when you try to copy somebody else's strategy, it's not your own, you don't have time and effort that you've got put into learning it, you're not passionate about it. So what you're saying makes a whole lot of sense. Like, yeah, you need to find the thing that speaks to you.  Allen: Mm hmm. And I guess, if I give you one more, it'll be that time goes by a lot faster than we realize, hmm. And so if there are people out there that have already paved the way, and you know, for a fact that they're doing well, then just do what they're doing, you know, or at least learn from them. Yeah, learn from, you know, if you can hire them, hire them, and just see what they're doing, learn, watch their strategies, and just do what they're doing. And hopefully it should work, right. And then you can tweak it once you do what they're doing. And once you're getting good results, then you can start tweaking it and be like, okay, you know, I'm gonna make it a little bit more conservative, a little more aggressive, a little bit this little bit that, but follow the plan first, you know, make it work, and then you add your own twist to it. We have so many people that come in, they're like, you know, I've been following you or I've been listening to you for two years. Okay, how many trades have you done? Well, not really. You know, I've been trying to do it on my own and watching free YouTube videos, like, Okay, well, you only get so far watching free Youtube videos, because you don't number one, you don't know how legit they're right? That's one thing. Anybody can like I say that, you know, any idiot can make a YouTube video. Allen: It used to be hard to write a book, you know, you have to go to a publisher get published and have references and all that stuff nowadays. Man, you put up a PDF on Amazon, it takes like a weekend. So don't be like, Oh, I'm an author. Okay, great. You know, everybody's an author. No. So it's really you got to be really careful of what you listen to. Kyle: Speaking of which, where can they find your book? PassiveTrading.com. Yeah, that's PassiveTrading.com. It's a free book, you know, just pay for the shipping, and we'll ship you out a printed copy of it. Dan: So PassiveTrading.com, we'll link in the description for that. Yeah. Is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners before we sign off here? Allen: No. I mean, it's been a lot of fun. You know, you guys, you guys are awesome. And I love it that you guys are honest. And you share the wins and the losses. Most of the time, you only see oh, I made 1,000,000% Oh, I made 20%. You don't see the losses, you don't see the the nitty gritty behind the scenes stuff. And you guys are showing that. So that's I love that part.  Dan: Well it's the same thing with gamblers too, right? You talk to a guy who goes to the casino and says, Oh, I won $300 last night. Oh, how much did you lose the night before? Yeah. Allen: Um, but yeah, I mean, if people are interested in Options, it's a great, it's a great way to add some passive money, you know? And if that's, if that fits, you know, it doesn't fit for everybody. Like some people, they come in and, and they're like, Yeah, I'm trying to do this, but I'm, I'm doing this and do that. I'm like, Dude, you're too aggressive. You know, if you want to be trading every day or every other day, then this is not for you. You know, find something you can do this part time, and then do with the rest of your time. Play something that fits your style more, but that's really important. You know, find your style, and then it'll just it just a whole lot easier. It's just which is way easier. Dan: What else can they, so we find your OptionGenius.com. You've also got your podcast. Allen: Yep. It's called the Option Genius Podcast. Kyle: Oh, hey. Allen: Yeah, we got really creative with our very own brains. Dan: All right, perfect. Yeah, we'll make sure we link all that stuff. Right. So if anybody wants to find out more they can check it out the description. Kyle: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us Allen, this has been a great conversation all of your your knowledge and experience has been a good time to listen to. We really appreciate you coming by the shop and talking with us today. Dan: Yeah, the hardships too, because I feel like you learn more from those sometimes.  Allen: Mm, yeah. They hit on the head. You know, sometimes you got to do it over and over again. Eventually, they eventually they sink in. Kyle: Alright, well there you have it, folks. We'll have all of that fun stuff in the episode description all those links for you. Any parting word, Allen? Allen: Just you know, I I tell everybody you know, trade with the odds in your favor.  Dan: The odds be ever in your favor. Kyle: It's like in the movie? Kyle: All right. Well, I guess it's time to kick everybody out. You don't got to go home but you can't stay here. Until next time. Happy trades. Allen: Bye, guys.   LOVE ALLEN SAMA - OPTION GENIUS AND WANT TO LEARN MORE TRADING TIPS  AND TRICKS? HERE ARE SOME NEXT STEPS... SUBSCRIBE TO OUR PODCAST FREE 9 LESSON COURSE: https://optiongenius.com/  WATCH THIS FREE TRAINING: https://passivetrading.com  JOIN OUR PRIVATE FACEBOOK GROUP: https://optiongenius.com/alliance  Like our show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps.

Episode: Reverse Wholesaling with Kent Clothier of REWW Guest: Kent Clothier is the Founder & CEO of Real Estate World Wide and creator of the Boardroom Mastermind. Kent has purchased & sold more than 5,000 properties since 2005. Big Idea: “If I had to go make $100,000 this month, what would I do? Whatever the answer to that question-why aren’t you doing it?” Kent prompts his own further success asking this question of himself often. Kent asked me this question about 10 years ago, and my answer was Diamond Equity. In 2020, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac reported originating approx. $4.1 Trillion in mortgage loans. No doubt, we have all witness a very vibrant & hot market. They have forecasted $2.7 Trillion for 2021, most likely due to the low inventory situation. How can you position yourself to profit from this constrained market? Kent & I discuss this and other trends on this week’s episode. This Episode of The REI Diamonds Show is Sponsored by the Deal Machine. This Software Enables Real Estate Investors to Develop a Reliable & Low Cost Source of Off Market Deals. For a Limited Time, You Get Free Access at http://REIDealMachine.com/ Resources Mentioned in this Episode: http://www.KentClothier.com/ For Access to Real Estate Deals You Can Buy & Sell for Profit: https://AccessOffMarketDeals.com/podcast/ View the Episode Description & Transcript Here: https://reidiamonds.com/reverse-wholesaling-with-kent-clothier-of-reww/ Dan Breslin: Welcome to The R.E.I. Diamond show. I am your host, Dan Breslin, and this is episode 185 on reverse wholesaling with Kent Clothier of REWW. If you are into building wealth through real estate investing, congratulations you are in the right place. My goal is to identify high caliber real estate investors and other industry service providers, invite them on the show, and then draw out the jewels of wisdom. Those tactics, mindsets, and methods used to create millions of dollars and more in the business of real estate. Today’s guest is Kent Clothier, the founder and CEO of Real Estate Worldwide. Real estate worldwide, also known as REWW, operates three core units. First is the Academy, the online education platform. Second is S.M.A.R.T., an online real estate investor data source, and the third is the Boardroom Mastermind, and Kent is a real estate investor first and foremost, and having purchased and sold more than 5,000 properties since 2005. So, today’s episode is one that I have personally been looking forward to for years, almost since I started the podcast. Kent is one of the early single-family real estate investor thought leaders who I personally paid attention to. We are talking 12 years now. And during the episode, you are going to hear my personal experience with Kent, including some watershed moments of my career, some like real big turning points that led me to where I am today, and those moments were spurred by ideas that Kent shared way way back in my career. And he also shares them again in a few moments. Ready to roll? Dan: All right, cool. Welcome to the The R.E.I. Diamonds Show. Kent, how are you doing today? Kent Clothier: I am doing good, brother. Thanks for having me. Dan: Yeah, for sure. Appreciate you blocking out the time to be with us. Just so the listeners who might not know who you already are, can you give us the background how you got started in real estate and what your primary business model looks like today? Kent: Yes. So, I have been doing it now for 18 years. Got started in the industry back in December of 2002, started wholesaling a few houses, got really good at it over the years. Started flipping, started wholesaling hundreds of houses a year down in South Florida. Before I knew it, we turned it into a turnkey operation back before that phrase even existed, and that company still operates today. My two brothers and my father run it based out of Memphis, Tennessee, it is called REI Nation. We basically turnkey about 800 properties a year in nine different cities, managed about 7,500 properties for our investors. So, it is our kind of primary real estate core business there. And on the flip side of that, I have been in the training education software space showing other investors how to do it for the last 15 years. And so back in 2006, I started a company called Real Estate Worldwide. Started showing people kind of what I had figured out, which was a process called reverse whole selling, and put together a lot of tools to show people how to be really successful at it, and happy to say that we have had about 60,000 people go through our education over the years now, a little over 60,000. And the latest and greatest thing that I am personally working on as I am out here really kind of evangelizing that now is the time to really start getting into the seller financing space just because of all the things that are happening in the current real estate market. Kent & I Discuss Current Real Estate Investor Trends: • Reverse Wholesaling • The Extraction of $1.4 Trillion from U.S. Real Estate • How to Profit from that Capital Extraction • The Time is Now-Where it Came from Relevant Episodes: (There are 185 Content Packed Interviews in Total) • Virtual Wholesale Real Estate Investing with Brandon Barnes https://bit.ly/3bpHPQt • Motivated Seller Leads from REI Radio Advertising with Chris Arnold – Real Estate Investor https://bit.ly/3qoN6f4 • How to Find Off Market Real Estate Deals with Zack Boothe https://bit.ly/3v1XAF0

Guest: Brandon Barnes focuses on virtual wholesale real estate investing in the Atlanta, Georgia market. He does over $1 million per year in revenue. Big Idea: “That’s a Real Estate Investor’s Superpower: Being Able to Comp Properties & Have a Feel for Purchase Price” Brandon mentions this “superpower” about half way into the interview. He’s spot on. The Real Estate Investor’s Superpower can be summed up in two main points. First you have to know how much to offer so that you get your offer accepted. Second, you have to know how much you can sell the house for once you’re done renovation. Or renting & refinancing if you’re planning to buy & hold. Brandon believes in Offers Over Appointments. In other words, he and his team would rather simply make offers over the phone than schedule face to face appointments. This is obvious if you’re a virtual wholesaler, but most of us in real estate prefer seeing the property prior to making an offer. You have to at least see photos before making an offer, right? The answer may surprise you. Check out the episode for full details. This Episode of The REI Diamonds Show is Sponsored by the Deal Machine. This Software Enables Real Estate Investors to Develop a Reliable & Low Cost Source of Off Market Deals. For a Limited Time, You Get Free Access at http://REIDealMachine.com/ Resources Mentioned in this Episode: https://www.SendMoreOffers.com For Access to Real Estate Deals You Can Buy & Sell for Profit: https://AccessOffMarketDeals.com/podcast/ View the Episode Description & Transcript Here: https://reidiamonds.com/virtual-wholesale-real-estate-investing-with-brandon-barnes/ Dan Breslin: Welcome to the REI Diamonds Show. I am your host, Dan Breslin, and this is episode 183 on Virtual Wholesale Real Estate Investing with Brandon Barnes. If you are into building wealth through real estate investing, you are in the right place. My goal is to identify high caliber real estate investors and other industry service providers. I invite them onto the show and then draw out the jewels of wisdom, those tactics, mindsets and methods used to create millions of dollars and more in the business of real estate. Dan: Now, most real estate investors, including myself, prefer making offers after physically seeing the house. You go see the condition, underwrite the deal, figure out the values. They have to repair value and then make an offer. Today’s guest, Brandon Barnes, he used to do the same, but now, he prefers making all of his offers immediately over the phone without ever seeing the property or even seeing photos of the property. I mean, how does this work? Do we not need to know the condition of the house to make an offer or at a minimum, see the photos? These answers may surprise you. Dan: All right. Welcome Brandon Barnes to the REI Diamonds Show. How are you doing today? Brandon Barnes: Hey, I am well. Thank you for having me there. Dan: Yeah, for sure. It has been much anticipated. Your name has been floating around the Atlanta Market where I do a lot of business for the past couple years here. I was highly excited to look forward to having you get on the show here once we started getting together with bookings. For those that may not know who Brandon Barnes already is, do you want to kind of give a little bit of a background for us, Brandon? Maybe how you began real estate investing and maybe even the details about your first deal if you could go back to that origination. Brandon: Yeah, for sure. Look, I am here in the Atlanta area just like you mentioned. I started off my journey whole selling, specifically. I mean, that is just the art of finding off-market properties at a discount and kind of jumping to this game by chance, honestly. I gotten fired from a Corporate America job and I always thought I would climb the ladder and become an entrepreneur at some perfect opportunity, but I got fired. I reached out to a buddy that I knew from Pittsburgh when I was working for the HJ Heinz Company up there and I asked him what this real estate thing was all about. Brandon: He said he had actually moved to Atlanta and was following a mentor program for wholesaling and I should come by and listen to it and this is a great opportunity to start a business. I was sold. Just a few months in the second month, I sent a thousand postcards and got my first contract. By month three, I had actually done my first deal for 15K and never looked back. I split that deal with them and kept on mailing. It was a great intro into the business. Brandon & I Discuss Virtual Wholesale Real Estate: • Virtual Wholesale Real Estate Investing • Making Offers Over the Phone • The Real Estate Investor Superpower • Disclosing the Profit Motive-Yes, I’m Going to Make Money Relevant Episodes: (183 Content Packed Interviews in Total) • How to Find Motivated Sellers with David Lecko https://reidiamonds.com/how-to-find-motivated-sellers-with-david-lecko/ • Dan Schwartz on Managing Off Market Investor Deal Flow https://reidiamonds.com/dan-schwartz-on-managing-off-market-investor-deal-flow/ • Josh Hertz on Wholesaling & Fix & Flips Philadelphia https://reidiamonds.com/josh-hertz-on-wholesaling-fix-flips-philadelphia/

This episode, we’re talking about people who are coming to Pittsburgh, whether it’s for work or just visiting.We’ll break down a report that suggests the city might be a better fit for tech workers than the mecca of the digital economy, Silicon Valley (gotta love our standard of living). We’re also talking about a recent article that probes the need for a new hotel at the convention center. (Hint: The answer isn’t very simple.)In between, we welcome the Breaking Brews Podcast’s host Jason Cercone for a chat about the business of beer and Pittsburgh’s place in the industry.This episode is sponsored by WordWrite:Centuries before cellphones and social media, human connections were made around fires, as we shared the stories that shaped our world. Today, stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts, minds and inspire action.At WordWrite, Pittsburgh’s largest independent public relations agency, we understand that before you had a brand before you sold any product or service, you had a story.WordWrite helps clients to uncover their own Capital S Story – the reason someone would want to buy, work, invest or partner with you through our patented StoryCrafting process. Visit wordwritepr.com to uncover your Capital S story.Logan:You are listening to the P100 podcast, the bi-weekly companion piece to the Pittsburgh 100, bringing you Pittsburgh news, culture, and more. Because sometimes 100 words just isn't enough for a great story. Logan:Hello, and welcome to a brand new episode of the P100 podcast. You're here with myself, Logan Armstrong, and co-hosts Dan Stefano and Paul Furiga. Guys, how are you doing?Paul:Great, Logan.Dan:Emphasis on the co-host there. You're the host with the mostest there.Logan:I try to be. I do what I can, but-Paul:Yes he does and he does it well.Logan:I get my mostest from the people I'm surrounded with. On today's episode, we're going to be examining tech jobs in Pittsburgh, and there have been a few recent articles for some vying to leave and some vying to stay that you may have seen. So we're going to be talking about that and seeing how Pittsburgh ranks compared with cities and metros around the country in tech jobs.Logan:Then we're going to bring in our good friend Jason Cercone from the Breaking Brews podcast. He takes a drink from breaking, excuse me. He takes a break from drinking beer and talks about the business side of it.Paul:Wait a minute, that wasn't in this segment. There was no beer drinking?Logan:Unfortunately no.Logan:We asked him about it and he said that he'd be happy to rejoin us.Dan:Logan, let's remember we're talking to the CEO of our company within the office, so no. There's no-Paul:Well that's fine. Let's chat.Dan:We don't have a video of this, but if you could see the winking eye. No, there is no-Logan:No beer during this segment.Dan:Drinking during this segment.Paul:Of course not.Logan:Okay, and then finally we're going to wrap up with what's missing from downtown.Paul:Oh.Logan:Indeed, mysterious.Paul:Question.Logan:That's right. You'll have to stick around to see what we're talking about, but we're in for a great episode so we hope you stick around.Dan:I hope it's not my car or anything.Paul:Okay guys, time to do one of our favorite things on the podcast. Talk about Pittsburgh getting another great national ranking.Dan:Another list, right?Paul:We're on another list.Dan:Yeah.Paul:This one's a good one. Although, if you're in the Silicon Valley area, maybe not so good.Dan:Right.Paul:A couple of weeks ago, Wallet Hub, which is an online service provider that looks at financial things, very popular with millennials.Dan:They make many lists.Paul:They make many lists of many different things. Top places to live in the country for tech workers. Pittsburgh, number five. Silicon Valley, not so high, which caused the San Jose Mercury News, which San Jose's a community that's smack in the middle of Silicon Valley, to write sort of a cheeky little article. Pittsburgh is better for tech workers than Silicon Valley? Question mark. Well, yes, if you want to live affordably, apparently it actually is.Dan:That's completely accurate. Yeah. The Bay Area, it's got to be one of the highest costs of living-Paul:It is actually.Dan:In the country.Paul:It has the highest cost of living in the country. And Logan, you were looking inside some of the rankings, and Pittsburgh ranked in the top 15 in a number of categories, right?Logan:Yes. So the three categories were professional opportunities, STEM friendliness, and quality of life. And Pittsburgh ranked 13th, 14th, and 11th in those, respectively. And some of the reasons that places like San Francisco and the Bay Area didn't rank so highly is that they would rank very high in one or two of these categories. So for example, San Francisco ranked third in both professional opportunities and STEM friendliness but then ranked 63rd in quality of life for reasons we were alluding to earlier. So it's good to see that Pittsburgh ranked in these lists as being as an all around. Maybe it's not top five or the best in STEM friendliness or professional opportunities, but it's well-rounded and our quality of life here is, according to this list, far better than some of our counterparts.Paul:And certainly as the community here has continued to transform, and I'm thinking now of Uber, and Apptive, and Apple's got a good presence in the city. Facebook's virtual reality company, Oculus, is wholly sited here in the Pittsburgh region. We're trying to attract more tech workers and we've got these great university programs, CMU and Pitt at the head of the pack, but others as well, where we're building this tech community. And I guess it does still surprise people in the more traditional communities, but it's legit. There's something going on here.Dan:Right. For better or worse, Pittsburgh will always kind of bring that blue collar atmosphere, that blue collar mentality, a bit rough around the edges. I talk about it all the time, but my wife's family, who, they grew up in California, they all lived in California for a while. They came to Pittsburgh here and they said, "Wow, I had no idea it was this green." So there's always going to be a bit of a stigma that the city carries around, but I think these lists show that to that the news is catching on here. And Pittsburgh is basically known now for the meds and eds and now tech. The reputation is definitely growing here and starting to overcome that stigma.Paul:That perception.Dan:Yeah. But there's ... Well, not to be Debbie Downer or play devil's advocate here, there are still the legacies of that history here that carries on, especially in our environment.Paul:Yeah. We still have work to do, that's for sure. I can remember when I first moved back to this region from the Washington DC area. I had a job in the south side and what is now South Side Works was still a working steel mill, and as I would drive across the Birmingham Bridge every morning, the smell of burning coke was my appetizer before breakfast.Logan:Morning coffee.Dan:That'll wake you.Paul:And there's been plenty of coverage, and legitimately so, that we still have environmental problems in the region. And certainly one of the reasons why the Bay Area, Silicon Valley, is disadvantaged on a list like this, is because there's such a huge economic disparity there. It's the most expensive metropolitan area in the country. Ours is not. Part of the reason Pittsburgh's so affordable, the collapse of the steel industry and heavy industry. So there's all this housing stock and we didn't have the kind of inflation maybe that a place on the coast like San Francisco has had, but we have economic disparity too, and that's something that we have to work on too.Dan:Right. I think that's being recognized now. We talked about a couple episodes ago here, that the city is starting to take a hard look at itself, especially in terms of the racial inequalities that exist here.Paul:Yes.Dan:Again, the three of us aren't the best people to speak to this. We don't live the same experiences that a lot of people do in this city, but we can play a role by listening and being active and playing a part in recognizing that. And trying to create opportunities, being part of the solutions here. It's going to take a long time for Pittsburgh to completely shrug off some of the legacies that came from the 20th century here, some of the stuff that might be dragging down the city, but we can do it.Paul:We absolutely can. And if we can, we'll put in the show notes, there have been a couple of interesting public source articles that have dug into some of these issues, and I was reading-Dan:Quite a battle in tech, here.Paul:It was a battle in tech, and there's one written by a fellow named Noah Theriault, I believe that's how his name is pronounced, and he's at CMU. And the conclusion of this article, which you found, Dan, I thought was really interesting. He said "Here many of us who come here for opportunities in the city's universities, hospitals, and tech firms, do so in a state of willful ignorance. We take advantage of the low cost of living, we relish the walkability of the neighborhoods. We gentrify. Many of us smugly believe that we are the city's rebirth, the salvation from rust and blight. Too few of us learn about the historical and ongoing realities that make it most livable." And I think that's something that's really at the heart of what we need to remember. It's great to be on lists like this, but really there is no Nirvana -Dan:Right?Paul:That exists among places to live in this country. We have work to do too.Dan:It's hard to put a number on somebody's personal experiences here. I think that's the crux of what you were talking about there.Paul:Exactly. Exactly.Dan:All right. We're here with Jason Cercone. He's the chief brand officer at Breaking Brews, also the founder there and they're a content network and digital resource platform for people in the beer industry. Not only that, he hosts the Breaking Brews podcast, which takes a pretty unique look at the beer industry. They focus a lot on the business side of things. So Jason, thanks for being here.Jason:Thanks for having me guys.Dan:Awesome. Okay. As we mentioned, what you like to do with Breaking Brews your podcast and kind of spins off of your business. You look at a pretty different side of things in the spirits industry, in the alcohol industry there, that people don't think of all the time and that's actually selling the stuff and getting it out there, right? Yeah.Jason:Yeah. What I discovered was there are a lot of podcasts dedicated to drinking beer and reviewing and having fun and those podcasts are all great, but I wanted to bring something different to the podcast world. And I started looking at the fact that we don't have a ton of podcasts that are dedicated to the business side. Which talks about sales and marketing and distribution, all those different facets that are very important and very critical to the beer world. That was where it really started to ... or where I really started to make it take off. And I talked to a lot of industry professionals that felt the same way. They said when they're cleaning kegs and doing some of the horrible work that goes on in the brew houses that they want to put on a good podcast and listen to something that they can learn from, and that was the resource I wanted to put out there for them.Dan:Right, well the industry's really exploded as far as the craft production or the craft beer segment goes. I think ... I'm just looking at some facts here from the Brewer's Association, retail sale dollars of craft beer in 2018, I think the most recent year of stats was $27.6 billion. You said you've seen that since you started the Breaking Brews podcast yourself, you started about four years ago, or is that just your business?Jason:Breaking Brews itself started back in 2014. This is actually my third iteration of a podcast. I actually did one, like I was saying before, where we just sat around and drank beer, and that got old after a while.Dan:Why aren't we doing that right now?Jason:That's a very good question. I know. I was quizzed on that when I walked in the door, why I didn't bring beer and I'm starting to regret that.Dan:We'll just have our first kegger podcast, here.Logan:Yeah, well that'd make for some good conversation, that's for sure.Dan:That's a great idea.Jason:I'm always happy to come back for a second round if you guys want me to bring some-Dan:Right.Jason:Good drinks.Dan:Great idea. But yeah, as we were talking about the industry is just enormous right now. We're seeing that too in Pittsburgh, right?Jason:Absolutely. Yeah. I mean when I started things in 2014, there was probably maybe a dozen local craft breweries and now you look at the landscape, there's over 50 throughout the region. It's incredible. So many of them are doing great products and getting it out to bars around the area and also creating an awesome taproom experience too.Dan:Why do you think that is?Jason:Pittsburgh loves its beer, man.Dan:Yeah.Jason:But overall I think that ... I mean we haven't ... we hear the talk about the bubble a lot and has craft beer reached its saturation point. And I've always been a firm believer that we haven't even come close because we're not even close to the number that we had, or number of breweries we had before prohibition.Dan:Yeah.Jason:I mean we're creeping up, we're getting close, but the population of all these different cities and states across the country is so much higher. And when I go out to events and I do samplings and I talk to beer drinkers, a lot of folks still really aren't aware of what's going on in the craft beer industry. So there's still a lot of education that we can provide and that was one of the main drivers of Breaking Brews was putting some education out there so people can better understand what's going on in the industry and what's going on with these products.Logan:That's an interesting benchmark that you mentioned there that the number of brewers before the prohibition. Is that a common milestone in the craft beer business? And are there things that were happening back then that are happening now? The same way?Jason:I think it's, it's obviously changed a lot in regards to how beer is made. Brewers have pushed the envelope to the furthest degree possible and then a little bit more. You see a lot of crazy ingredients going into beers that probably pre-prohibition they weren't putting donuts into stouts and Twinkies-Logan:What were they doing?Jason:Breakfast cereal. I know it's like they weren't living their best life at all. However, a lot has changed. It's just the question of people's tastes have changed too and it's what do they want? And that's what these brewers are constantly trying to stay on top of, is what does the beer consumer want to drink today? And that's why I think you see such a variety out there in the market.Dan:Is it fair to say that it's easier to start a brewery round now or at least, somebody can be in their basement and actually trying to kickstart their own beer?Jason:That's probably the biggest misconception is that it's so easy to start a brewery because it's like any other business.Dan:Look, I've seen the Drew Carey show and he had a brewery in his basement. I know how this works .Jason:That's one of the big problems when you see some of these breweries that come out and their beer really isn't that great. They're standing around with their friends in a circle and all their friends are drinking their beer saying, "This is the best beer I've ever had. You need to start a brewery." And that's all well and good, but if they don't have a business sense that goes along with making a good product or even a subpar product, if they don't manage it properly, it's just not going to succeed. So it's just like anything else. I think that the barriers to entry are a little bit less because a lot of people have done it, but the smart thing to do would be go into it knowing that it's a business and you have to do all the things that you would normally do to run a business, or partner with somebody that can handle that end of your business for you.Logan:Partner with someone like Jason, Jason Cercone.Jason:I am for hire. I am here if anybody needs assistance. I'd be happy to help.Dan:Have you ever, you yourself, have you ever actually started ... Well maybe not started your own brewery, but have you ever brewed your own drafts?Jason:I've partnered and done some collaboration beers with a few different breweries across town. I did an event last year where I partnered with Yellow Bridge Brewing out in Delmont. I just went out and brewed with them for the day and I was able to say that I helped and I call that a collaboration. And I've done that with a couple of other breweries too. And that's fun. I mean that's the brewing side of it for me. I've always been more of a beer drinker and I like to obviously talk about it and promote it and market it. Brewing it just wasn't really something I wanted to do full time. It's a hard job. I think that's where a lot of people look at that like a glamorous thing and brewers will tell you, those are long days. It's very industrial and they work their asses off to put together a good product. End of the day, they are dog tired.Dan:Sure.Jason:So yeah, important. If you're going to be a brewer, know you'll be working hard.Dan:Right. We talk about hard work there. We're talking about having a good business sense. What do you see are some of the secrets to say these successful craft brewers and the people that maybe ... even some of these breweries that say are smaller, let's think about Southern Tier years ago, nobody knew who they were. Now they've got their own brewery on the North shore and what are some of the secrets to some of these businesses that have made it?Jason:I think it's understanding how to grow and being very deliberate about it and not trying to just shoot the moon right out of the gate. Obviously you have to establish a loyal fan base and make good product at the same time. But if you try to go too heavy, if you're a small local brewery and you try to make a statewide distribution, your number one priority, chances are you're not going to succeed because you don't have the liquid to supply the markets. So there's a lot of different aspects that you have to look at, but probably the most important is to use a popular phrase of our time, stay in your lane, and understand what it takes to build that brand from the ground up.Jason:Don't try to get too far ahead of yourself before you're ready. And then once the time comes where you've established that brand, then you can start looking at ... popular thing now other than distribution is looking at secondary spaces. We're starting to see some breweries in the Pittsburgh area open up secondary spots so they've proven that their brand is good enough to support it and we wish them the best in carrying that out.Dan:Who would you point to as some really good success stories in the Pittsburgh area then and what they've done successfully?Jason:Oh man, that list is long.Dan:Yep.Jason:Yeah. One of the breweries that I work with, the Spoonwood brewing in Bethel Park.Dan:I was there just this weekend.Jason:Awesome. What'd you think?Dan:I loved it. It was my second time there. I had a great time.Jason:Yeah, they're doing great beer. Great food. It's a great tap room atmosphere. You really can't ask for much more than that. They've been ... they're coming up on five years.Dan:Wow.Jason:And I've been working with them since pretty much the beginning and we've been building that brand and we don't do a ton of distribution, but a lot of the beer that we put out there ultimately was just to build that brand and give people an opportunity to taste it. To where they might say, "Wow, this is in Bethel Park. I'm going to go down there and see what else they have to offer." Another brewery I work with is Four Points Brewing out of Charleroi. They've ... just under two years old at this point, actually just about a year and a half now and they're killing it. They're doing some great beer and then you've got a lot of the names that people hear of all the time, like your Grist Houses and your Dancing Gnomes and Voodoos and Hitchhikers of the world. Again, we could sit here and do a whole podcast where I just rattle off the list because there's a lot of good beer happening.Dan:Well, you're in luck, our next segment, we're going to list breweries for the next 25 minutes. All right.Jason:Yeah. Close off with reading the phone book.Dan:Exactly.Jason:Riveting radio.Logan:Now you've learned a lot of these techniques and methods. You have over 20 years’ experience in marketing and sales. Did that start off in beer, or and if not, how did you navigate into the beer industry from that?Jason:That was ... I mean that was broken compasses for days, man, that was ... No, it did not start in beer. I've been working in the beer industry – counting what I did with starting Breaking Brews – for going on six years now. I sold cell phones right out of college, landed at Enterprise-Rent-a-Car for several years after that. Ran Hair Club for Men here in Pittsburgh for about four years. And with Breaking Brews, when I started it, it was ultimately just to build something that I felt was a good resource that could teach people how to gravitate to these beers in a very approachable way. Because as I learned, a lot of people just weren't aware of what was happening around them. So I was able to parlay my skillset from all my years in the professional world into a business that now I can help the breweries and help the different businesses that I work with do sales and marketing and create a good customer experience. All those good things, all things that are very important to building a good brand.Dan:Bring it back a little bit locally here to ... Pittsburgh I feel like is ... we've got a pretty special relationship to beer here. And it's some pretty big names in terms of, you think of Iron City, Duquesne, there's obviously Rolling Rock used to be around. How do you feel like the city's adopted and adapted to this craft brewing? I don't know if you could call it a Renaissance because it hasn't been around until right now, but this upsurge right now that people are ... they are doing with craft brewing.Jason:Yeah I think with the breweries now, I mean obviously as we spoke about earlier, we've got over 50 across the region now. It says a lot for the fact that people are going to go to a good brewery regardless of where they're at. It's become very neighborhood centric where you look like an old neighborhood pub, that's in some respects, being replaced by the local neighborhood brewery. You're seeing them essentially on every corner, quote unquote. And I think that helps with the fact that these guys are able to grow their brands so well because then it expands beyond their neighborhood as well. But yeah, we have a very rich history here in Pittsburgh with beer going back years and years back to ... I mean, Iron City was the beer.Jason:And I think now you're starting to see more of a shift towards the craft brands and many of them have been here for ... You look at East End, they've been here for 15 plus years now and they really were setting some good trends for what could happen and how people could gravitate towards a craft brand. Same with Penn Brewery. I believe 1986, was when they hit the scene. So a lot of good things have come along that have really helped push it forward. And now Pittsburgh is becoming one of those hot beds and I shouldn't say becoming it already is. And probably our closest rival in the state, just like everything else, is Philadelphia. And I think both of us have a tremendous beer scene that we can be proud of.Dan:Yeah. I think if you ever see a Penguins, Flyers game, it looks like more than a few people have beers.Jason:Well now, you see breweries have gotten in with the rivalries, like Grist House, and I'm forgetting the brewery that they partnered with out of Cleveland, they did a Browns, Steelers rivalry beer.Dan:Oh did they really?Jason:Rivertowne and Sly Fox had partnered up a couple of years ago for the stadium series. And they did a ... Glove Dropper was the name of the beer. And they worked together on that and sold it in both markets and worked out really well.Dan:All right Jason, well thanks so much for being here with us, for everybody at home. If you're listening, make sure to visit. If you're interested at all about starting a brewery and perhaps finding ways to market it and get it out to the world, you can go to breakingbrews.com. Look for Jason Cercone and also look for Breaking Brews podcast. You can find that on all the major platforms including Apple podcast, Stitcher, Google play, Spotify, iHeart, all the big ones where you can find us. And Jason, thanks so much for being here.Jason:Thanks again guys. Appreciate it.Logan:Sure thing.Dan:Great.Logan:Centuries before cell phones and social media, human connections are made around fires, as we shared the stories that shaped our world. Today stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts and minds and inspire action. At WordWrite, Pittsburgh's largest independent public relations agency, we understand that before you had a brand, before you sold any product or service, you had a story. WordWrite helps clients to uncover their own Capital S Story. The reason someone would want to buy, work, invest, or partner with you through our patented story crafting process, visit WordWritePR.com to uncover your Capital S Story.Paul:It's now time to talk about the biggest building that is not in the downtown skyline. We are talking about what is known in the travel trade as a headquarters hotel. In other words, if Pittsburgh were to host a very large convention, a large hotel would be designated as the headquarters hotel. In many cities, this is a large hotel that's attached to the convention center.Dan:Right.Paul:And that typically has somewhere in the neighborhood of a thousand rooms.Dan:Right.Paul:Pittsburgh – yinz don't have one of those n’at.Dan:Oh, they do have a hotel connected to the convention center, right?Paul:Yes, yes. We do the Weston and actually Dan, I'm glad you mentioned that.Dan:Yeah.Paul:Because in the original plans for the convention center development, that hotel was supposed to be about twice as big as it is and if it were, it would be the size of a headquarters hotel.Dan:Sure. Well, I think that is, it's interesting that you're bringing this up and I think we rewind a little bit. The reason we're bringing this up is, on February 3rd, in the Post-Gazette, Craig Davis, who used to be the CEO of Visit Pittsburgh.Paul:Yes.Dan:Yeah. Visit Pittsburgh is the local-Paul:It's the Convention and Visitor's Bureau in part supported byPaul:Our tax funds and they promote the city to businesses like conventions.Dan:Right, yeah.Paul:But also to leisure travelers.Dan:Draw people into the city. Yeah, it's important. Yeah. This article, what it did with, again with Craig Davis here, he had a piece of parting advice for Pittsburgh is how Mark Belko, the writer introduced this and he did a really nice job with this piece. Craig wanted to build a convention center hotel.Paul:Right.Dan:And that's what we're talking about here. And there's a lot of back and forth about whether it should be done, whether ... what kind of impact it would bring on the city here. And he had some really good information about it, yourself, but a lot of people, they want to see more here. And that's what we're talking about today.Paul:Right. So in the tourism and convention industry in Pittsburgh, this is the third rail of politics. Nobody really wants to talk about it. And I look at this article in the Post-Gazette, Visit Pittsburgh, great organization. Craig Davis, very effective leader and he's been hired to run a similar organization in Dallas. Smart person. He's in Dallas now, so he can kind of say, what maybe he couldn't say before when he was in Pittsburgh. And for people in his business, his line of work, you need to have a convention center hotel. The thing is, to build that would cost about, Oh, kind of like the same amount of money to build PNC Park or Heinz Field.Dan:Right? Yeah. In this article here, they have an estimate of $350,000 to $400,000 a room to build.Paul:Or in other words-Dan:That's all.Paul:Yeah. $240 million.Dan:Right. That's for a 600-room hotel.Paul:Exactly.Dan:Yeah.Paul:It's a lot of money. And it was not easy to get PNC Park and Heinz Field built. There was actually a referendum on the ballot one year that failed. It was called the Regional Renaissance Initiative. I mean we put renaissance in the name of everything, don't we? And it was after that, that a deal was brokered. A lot of critics said behind closed doors and smoke-filled back rooms that wound up producing Heinz Field and PNC Park. There doesn't seem to be a lot of political appetite for spending that kind of money, again.Dan:Right.Paul:On something like a convention center hotel.Dan:Again here, Mark did a great job with this article here and he put it pretty succinctly here. He said, "In recent years, Davis' pitch has landed with all of the enthusiasm of a root canal."Paul:Yes.Dan:I don't know about you guys, I get too enthusiastic over root canals, but I suppose not many other people do, but the article does bring up a good point. That there's been a recent hotel building boom in the region, in the downtown area, particularly across the river. Some other smaller hotels that have cropped up here and there, the Marriotts and whatnot.Paul:Many. You could throw a rock from where we sit right now, we can hit the Monaco.Dan:Absolutely, yeah.Paul:Throw it across the way, hit the Embassy Suites. We've got the William Penn, which has been here for a long time. The Drury is in the old federal reserve building.Dan:Right and that's just a block away from the convention center. But the kind of full service hotel that, again, this is from the article here that Mr. Davis would see here, that would require huge public subsidies. And that's-Paul:Yes.Dan:I think the sticking point that it comes down to.Paul:That is the third rail part.Dan:Whether we want this here and I think it's one of those things where you balance. You say, "How much are these conventions going to be worth compared to the costs, the investments that you have to make in a city here." And it could take a while until the scales tip one way.Paul:Well, and what's very interesting about this is, there are statistics, there don't seem to be any statistics readily available to say, "Yes, Pittsburgh, you should do this." What we tend to fall back on, are a couple of really great seminal events. First was the Bassmaster Classic several years ago. And still of course people who don't know Pittsburgh want to depict it as a smoky mill town. And we had this freshwater national competition for bass fishing. And it went off really great. And that's led, as Mark Belko's article points out to Visit Pittsburgh getting into seeking sports events. And we've had, I can't believe this, I didn't even realize this number, 22 NCAA championship events have been held in Pittsburgh and we've got more coming.Dan:Yeah. Just recently they had the National Women's Volleyball championship out here.Paul:Yeah.Dan:And I think a big part of that comes down to, they now have a world-class arena to do it in.Paul:Yes.Dan:Where Civic Arena definitely showed its age after a while.Paul:Right.Dan:That plays a different part here. But certainly the downtown hotel building boom assists with that.Paul:Absolutely. Absolutely.Dan:Convention centers is ... that's a little different. And again, I think what, Craig Davis is trying to say here is, having it connected to the convention center, people love that. It's very convenient just to grab an elevator, have a little sky walk over to the convention center. It's not always a feasible immediately though, it's nice to think of these things, but it's hard to find room for it. And whether you're going to supplement what is already there or again, it takes money.Paul:Well, my point about Bassmaster, the other thing that happened of course was the G20 in 2009. Those two events put Pittsburgh, reputation-wise, on a world stage. In the article, Mark Belko talks about Milwaukee, which is a nice enough town and they have a baseball team that has a better record over the last decade of a postseason-Dan:They spend more than the Buccos, but that's a-Paul:They do.Dan:That's a whole other podcast.Paul:However, in terms of the hotel market, not quite the same size as Pittsburgh and they're getting the Democratic convention this year.Dan:Absolutely.Paul:Why does Pittsburgh not have that sort of convention? And if we did, aside from the monetary benefits of the convention itself, what would it do for the city in terms of raising the reputation even more and bringing more convention business to Pittsburgh? It's hard to say. It's also hard to argue that it was really cool to have Bassmaster or certainly the President and world leaders for the G20. That was awesome exposure for Pittsburgh. This is kind of a question of how much is the region willing to spend? And apparently it's going to have to spend something, in order to create that kind of environment.Dan:I think what's important when you look at these national conventions, particularly in the political arena, that is strategic by the parties too.Paul:Oh yes.Dan:Wisconsin's very important in this upcoming election to the Democrats. As is Pennsylvania.Paul:Right.Dan:But they were also in Philadelphia not that long ago, so do they want to spend so much more time in Pennsylvania and look, Wisconsin, the people ... whenever they do the Monday morning quarterbacking of that election, they did not spend all the time there. So it's ... they're showing ... it's a quite a statement that they are spending the time in Milwaukee for this upcoming convention. But it also shows that if Milwaukee can host something like this, then, so can Pittsburgh.Paul:Why not Pittsburgh, yeah.Dan:I think Pittsburgh actually held the very first Republican convention that was back in the 1860s or so. And we had the hotel rooms for that one, I guess. You know.Paul:We did.Dan:Yeah.Paul:Well, country was a little smaller then.Dan:Indeed. Yeah.Paul:Might be a difference, but I think this is a topic we're going to come back to again, so we wanted to put it out there for everybody. Again, props to Mark Belko and his article and the truth speaking, shall we say, of Craig Davis. We'll have to watch the skyline and see where this one goes.Dan:Well, most importantly, just as a final coda to this, and Mark's article did describe this a bit at the end, for the leaders that want to see this kind of change, that want to see a hotel down here, they have to show their work. It has to be ... You have to come to ... with studies from respected institutions, respected people, who are proving that, "Okay, hey, when Milwaukee hosted this type of thing, if they had a hotel here, this is the impact that they would have got."Dan:There are other areas here in Louisville and Columbus that are building hotels. What will those hotels do for their ability to draw conventions? Are they stealing them from Pittsburgh? You have to come up with that information. You have to present it to the leaders, not only in our government, but the community to approve ... like, "Hey, okay, some of tax dollars should go to this."Paul:Absolutely.Dan:And if you can do that, if you can convince enough people, then maybe it happens. But that stuff takes some time too.Paul:Well, and just a final thought on this since Craig Davis left Visit Pittsburgh, they are engaged in a search for a CEO. So I would expect that once a new CEO is named, one of the first things that we should be looking for, is some thinking around this topic.Dan:Absolutely.Logan:And we are well beyond 100 words today. Thank you for listening to the P100 podcast. This has been Dan Stefano, Logan Armstrong, and Paul Furiga. If you haven't yet, please subscribe at p100podcast.com, or wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Twitter at Pittsburgh100_ for all the latest news updates and more from the Pittsburgh 100. 

 We’re past the “I can’t believe holiday decorations are already up” portion of the season. It’s time to celebrate the holidays, and Pittsburgh has two big events coming up that we’ll discuss in this week’s episode.For starters, we talk with some representatives from the Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership about Comcast Light Up Night on Nov. 22. Then we bring in the race director of the YMCA of Greater Pittsburgh’s Turkey Trot.After that, Paul and Dan take a deep dive into a potential change to the U.S. immigration system, and we close out with a special guest for our Pittsburgh Polyphony series. ----more----This Episode is sponsored by WordWriteCenturies before cell phones and social media, human connections were made around fires as we shared the stories that shaped our world. Today, stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts and minds and inspire action. At WordWrite, Pittsburgh's largest independent public relations agency, we understand that before you had a brand, before you sold any product or service, you had a story.WordWrite helps clients to uncover their own Capital S Story. The reason someone would want to buy, work, invest or partner with you through our patented story-crafting process. Visit wordwritepr.com to uncover your Capital S Story.Here's the full transcript for this episode:Speaker 1: You're listening to the P100 podcasts, the biweekly companion piece to The Pittsburgh 100 bringing you Pittsburgh news, culture, and more because sometimes 100 words just isn't enough for a great story.Dan: Hi everybody. Welcome back to the P100 podcast. I'm your host Dan Stefano with my cohost here, Logan Armstrong. Our other co-host Paul Furiga will be joining us shortly.Logan: Ho ho, ho. Dan.Dan: I can't believe you just said that.Dan: Well, the ho, ho, ho, and all of the holiday celebration nonsense here fits in with our first couple of segments that we're going to have today. We're going to be discussing Light Up Night with a couple of people from the Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership. They're the group that puts on the event every year and does such an awesome job, and then following that, we're going to have another discussion with another big holiday event. Logan.Logan: Yeah. We're going to be talking about the YMCA of Greater Pittsburgh's Turkey Trot Race, one of the biggest races in the city. We're going to be sitting down with Catlyn Brooke, race director, and she's going to give us a lowdown on that.Dan: It's an important race too because it goes to a very... The funds from it go to a very big cause and a lot of important donations there. So following that, we're going to take a left turn there and go into a deeper dive into a recent story we had on immigration, and we have an attorney from a local Pittsburgh law firm here to discuss that. And it's a really interesting talk that affects not only people in our region but nationally. We're excited to have him in for that.Dan: Following that Logan, we've got a special Pittsburgh polyphony. It's not just us talking about an artist here. We have somebody pretty interesting coming in.Logan: Yeah, that's right, Dan. We're going to have Connor Murray here, a label manager of Crafted Sounds, a local Pittsburgh record label that's doing a lot of cool things in the region. And one of the coolest, he's trying to bring back cassette tapes.Dan: Cassette tapes. That's great. Yeah, I think there might be some at my mom's house here I could dig up. I don't know. We'll have to find out, but all right everybody, let's get to it.Dan: All right everybody, we're happy to have two members of the Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership here with us. We have Colten Gill, manager of marketing communications and Roya Kousari, another member of the marketing team there. Thanks for being with us.Roya: Thank you for having us.Colten: Thank you guys.Dan: Guys, it's a busy time of year for you here and can you tell us why that is?Colten: Yeah, for sure. So coming up in just a few days, it's going to be the 59th Annual Comcast Light Up Night. It's kind of the kickoff to the holiday season in Downtown Pittsburgh. It's a celebration that's been going on in Pittsburgh for almost 60 years now. It's what a lot of families around the region use to kickstart their holiday celebration. And we're just about ready to kick things off. Coming up Friday, November 22nd.Dan: Right. And what's interesting too about Light Up Night is it is not a night. It's a full day of just all the great holiday stuff and multiple tree lightings. What's it like for you? This brings in hundreds of thousands of people every year, and I got to believe it's kind of go, go, go.Roya: It is very much organized chaos in a lot of ways. As you said, it's a full day of events. So the first activity of the day is the Dedication of The Creche at noon, and then we keep going strong until 10:00 PM. So there are a lot of moving pieces. We have an amazing team put together to help things run as smoothly as possible. There are seven official tree lightings and ceremonies.Dan: Geez.Roya: Yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, we end with the true Pittsburgh element of everything, which is Zambelli fireworks. The BNY Mellon fireworks finale is at 9:30 and that's sort of the culmination of the event.Dan: You guys as members of the downtown partnership, you're probably a big part of witnessing this, but the downtown neighborhood itself is vastly different than whenever I was a kid. Can you talk about maybe the Renaissance that we're seeing downtown? A lot of new buildings, a lot of new shops and how they just work with the Light Up Night's celebration too.Colten: Yeah, for sure. So, like you said, it has changed a lot, and it's a really good energy that's around downtown right now. We have 140 small businesses and retailers in the downtown community. So while you don't have that big keystone department store, you have these really great opportunities that you aren't going to find anywhere else in the city to visit these smaller shops that have these really unique gifts, items, apparel, and a really strong sense of community.Colten: One of my favorite things about all the shops in Downtown Pittsburgh today, if you go to one store and say, "Hey, I'm really looking for this very specific item," they're going to be like, "Oh. Hey, I might not have it, but go down the street to our neighbor store because you'll be able to find it there." So there's a really strong sense of community in the business community that's here in downtown right now.Dan: That's great. Kind of speaks to that Pittsburgh being a small-town feel with big-city amenities.Colten: For sure.Dan: We love that stuff. Looking at this year's though on the 22nd here, what are some of the big highlights that you guys see for right now? I know they've got a pretty big name on the main stage too at the end of the night here.Colten: Yeah, for sure. So on the Comcast main stage, we're bringing Adam Lambert to the city of Pittsburgh, which we're very excited about. He was here earlier this summer actually touring with Queen out at PPG Paints Arena. So we're happy to welcome him back to the city for this holiday tradition. In addition to him, on the EQT Jazzmaster stage, we have a really exciting new piece. The MCG Jazz Group is going to be presenting the music of Fred Rogers. There's going to be a really great legacy there in that jazz music that's being presented with special appearances by Daniel Tiger. So he's a character from Daniel Tiger's neighborhood. So a really great mesh of the old and the new Fred Rogers community there on that stage.Dan: Perfect timing too because I think the movie comes out too, the Tom Hanks movie. So yeah, a lot of just like perfect synergy with Fred Rogers.Colten: For sure.Dan: But looking beyond Light Up Night then here downtown will remain a hub for holiday activity too. Can you talk about just certain, some of the things going on there? And I've spent some time in downtown in the holidays, the season last year and there's just so much fun stuff going on.Colten: Oh, for sure. So returning is the Peoples Gas Holiday Market. So Market Square is going to be that big destination market where you're going to be able to stroll through an illuminated marketplace. You're going to be able to buy some really unique gifts and enjoy some time in this really, really traditional setting with the decor and everything going on there. Returning are some favorites like the Holly Trolley. So you're going to be able to stop at Fifth Avenue Place, get on the Holly Trolley and enjoy free transport around all the holiday hotspots, including the Heinz History Center, our home good shop, PG&H right here on Smithfield Street and to the Holiday Kids Play, which is going to be taking place holiday weekends. So a lot of really fun family activities going on as well all season.Roya: We also want people to know that with the Peoples Gas Holiday Market there's a lot of activities happening within that space. Even beyond just the shopping. We have a karaoke contest ... Oh yeah, Oh yeah. Come down, sing holiday best. There are also photos with Santa. So you can visit Santa's house and if you bring a donation for the Greater Pittsburgh Community Food Bank, then you get a complimentary photo with Santa. So it's a way for us to engage the community and give back as well.Dan: Yeah, that stuff's hugely important. Even if you don't want a picture with Santa, I would suggest that everybody out there, if you get down there, try to bring a donation because that stuff's just so important. Guys, thanks so much for being here. We really appreciate you visiting, and is there anything else you'd like to mention? Happy holidays message for anybody or?Roya: We just look forward to seeing everybody coming downtown to enjoy both Light Up Night and the rest of the holiday season here in downtown.Dan: Right. And we'd be remiss to not mention this too. Where can people find you online?Colten: Yeah, for sure. So you can go to downtownpittsburgh.com for all the holiday activities but also everything happening year-round in downtown, including a list of restaurants, shops and things like that. We're also on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at Downtown Pitt. So connect with us there and find out what's going on.Dan: All right. Be sure to go visit those channels, everybody. And thanks so much and let's hope that organized chaos of Light Up Night turns into just an organization and a fun night for you.Colten: For sure. Thanks so much.Roya: Thank you.Logan: Hey everybody, we're back here with Catlyn Brooke, race director of the YMCAs Turkey Trots. Of course a race almost everybody in Pittsburgh knows. Catlyn, thanks for being with us.Catlyn: Hi. Thanks guys.Logan: Yeah, sure. So we have the Turkey Trot coming up here in the next week or so. Can you just give us a little bit of a background on the race and kind of what you do as race director?Catlyn: Yeah, absolutely. So this is our 29th year doing the Turkey Trot here in Pittsburgh. This year our sponsor’s UPMC Health Plan, they are 5k sponsor and our overall race sponsor. So we're super excited to have them on board.Catlyn: Being race director, we can put it into a nutshell is I get people to sign up, and I handle race logistics. But I mean a little bit more than that. It's getting the word out to why we're doing the race. Obviously getting people to register, getting folks to participate in our food drive for the Greater Pittsburgh Community Food Bank, and just doing race things like ordering thousands of shirts that you end up seeing around the city for the rest of the year. Making sure that we have enough food and water for our folks when they're done the race, so that we can have them refreshed after the fact. It's not too glamorous, but it's really rewarding knowing how many people come together on Thanksgiving Day to give back to their community and to try to end hunger here in Pittsburgh.Dan: Yeah, and in particular, this goes to the Greater Pittsburgh Community Food Bank, right? And you guys have a set goal that you want to get for some donations this year, right?Catlyn: Yeah, absolutely. So my loft goal, my reach goal for this year, is to collect 10,000 pounds of food. Last year, unofficially, we reached that goal. I probably had around 8,000 pounds of food come into PNC Park just during our packet pickup days. And we do have donation locations as well at all of our YMCA branches. So unofficially last year we hit our goal, but this year I officially want to hit 10,000 pounds of food.Dan: That's great. And then unofficially we can try to like shoot for like 20,000 or something, right?Catlyn: Yes.Dan: It's all for the best. It's a great cause.Logan: Yeah. And I saw last year, according to you guys that you raised over $280,000 for the organization last year in last year's race, which is just incredible. But I was looking and it sounds like there's a few different things to do. You guys have the Fun Run, the Turkey Trot, and then the Double Gobble, which is the five mile plus a 5k run. So it sounds like there's kind of everything for somebody in the family, something for everybody to do, whether you want to bring your kids or just bring your spouse or things like that. It sounds like there's something for everybody to do. Is that correct?Catlyn: Yeah, absolutely. And we like to think about the day as more than just your exercise. You're coming out, you're supporting the 1.2 million people in Allegheny County, which nearly one in seven of them are facing food insecurity. So that's the point of the day. Our hashtag is #EndHungerPGH and that's really our goal. So while we do raise money for the Y and the programs such as summer camp, before school, after school, senior programs, men's housing, et cetera, we do also collect all that food. But like you said, there is something for everyone. So we start off our day with the Med Express One Mile Family Fun Run, and you can walk or jog or sprint that if you like. It's really excellent to see the little kids come through the finish line who are like just huffing and puffing. They gave it their all, and it's really cute to see that. And all of our kid competitors for that get a medal, which they're excited about as well.Dan: Logan, maybe you can try this out. You can do one mile. You can get yourself a medal.Logan: I could probably do a mile, yeah.Dan: I don't know if I could do one mile.Catlyn: You can walk. It's all good.Dan: Oh, perfect. Fun Walk. Oh, that's correct. It's a Fun Walk. I could just have fun by walking.Catlyn: Exactly. The most fun. After our one mile, we have the UPMC Health Plan 5K, that's our main event. We have the most people who run that. It's usually about 5,000 people who run the 5k event. And then after that we have our five mile event and that is sponsored this year by The Pirates who are also our gracious venue hosts. And like you said, the Double Gobble.Logan: Yeah, I would not be doing that one.Catlyn: The double gobble, you run the 5k first and then you just keep on running tack on the five mile after that. And our sponsor for that is a GH&A. So we're super excited.Dan: Yeah, well it's getting close to December. Obviously it is a Thanksgiving day on November 28th, nice and early in the morning at 7:00 AM. But that's one thing that I think is important about these days is people think about Thanksgiving and they get there and it's an entire day. It's not just the meal. It's having a big breakfast with your family, starting to cook early in the morning. So I think it says a lot whenever you can see families coming out taking a significant portion of their day, a big part of the morning there to come out and support a cause like this. And it says a lot about Pittsburgh. I think you'd agree with that.Catlyn: Yeah, absolutely. We see people, the majority from Pittsburgh, but we have participants from almost every state in the country, which is really awesome to see. I'll get letters or emails from people like from California and they're coming in. And they're asking about packet pickup and things like that. So yeah, it's cool. We've even had participants from other countries, so it's a special race. And it's really awesome to see how many people come together.Dan: That's great. In 29 years, 30 next year. Have you already started thinking about that one?Catlyn: The big 30 is next year. Yes. We have started thinking. I'm not going to give anything away, but there'll be some surprises.Dan: Triple Gobble maybe?Logan: You'd be in a lot on Thanksgiving.Dan: Exactly right. Yeah.Logan: And so what kind of food items are you guys accepting for the Greater Food Bank? Is it just nonperishable or what kind of things should people bring to donate?Catlyn: Yeah, so actually you can bring more than just nonperishable food items. So they also collect household items, toilet paper, toiletries, baby products, things for seniors. Basically that is anything that's not in a glass container and that is nonperishable. If you do go on our website, our Facebook page, YMCA Turkey Trot, we have a nice little graphic showing everything that they collect. You think of nonperishable items and it's like, "Okay I'm going to go get chicken noodle soup and a can of green beans." But we like for people to think outside the box with that as well. Macaroni and cheese is great for the kids. Granola bars, pasta, pasta sauce that is in a plastic container. So just thinking more about, would you want to eat out of a can for every meal. There's so many more nonperishable things in the supermarkets that we can provide.Dan: Importantly too, you don't have to just register today. I mean if you want to, you can go to Pittsburghymca.org, and the link is very nice and right in your face for the Turkey Trot. But also you can register on race day, right?Catlyn: Yeah, absolutely. You can come up if you decide early morning, "Okay. I'm ready to run this thing." Just come on down to PNC Park. Our set up is on Mazeroski Way right past home plate. And just say hey.Logan: So where can we find the YMCA more than just a Turkey Trot on social media and give us that URL to sign up one more time.Catlyn: Yeah, so the URL to sign up is YMCApgh.org/turkeytrot. Also if you just do a quick Google search for YMCA Pittsburgh Turkey Trot, it should be one of the first things that pops up. And again, it's the 29th year, so that's the one you want to look for on active.com. We are on social media, Facebook, Twitter. It's just YMCAPGH, and we also have a Turkey Trot Facebook page, which is YMCA PGH Turkey Trot.Logan: All right. Well, Catlyn Brooke, race director of the YMCA's Turkey Trot here in Pittsburgh. Thanks so much for coming on and we appreciate you being here.Catlyn: Thanks so much, guys.Dan: Bye.Logan: Centuries before cell phones and social media, human connections were made around fires as we shared the stories that shaped our world. Today stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts and minds and inspire action. At WordWrite, Pittsburgh's largest independent public relations agency, we understand that before you had a brand, before you sold any product or service, you had a story. WordWrite helps clients to uncover their own capital S story. The reason someone would want to buy, work, invest or partner with you through our patented story crafting process. Visit wordwritepr.com to uncover your capital S story.Dan: Hey everybody, we're back and we're going to be taking a little sharp turn here into a conversation about immigration. And we have here an attorney from Meyer, Unkovic, and Scott. They're a Pittsburgh based law firm here. Joel Pfeffer, he's one of the focuses is immigration in his practice. And thank you for being here.Joel: My pleasure.Dan: What we want to discuss is lead in to this with a talk about the Public Charge Rule. It's a new rule that we discussed very briefly in The Pittsburgh 100, and these legal issues, they need a lot more than 100 words to breakdown.Joel: Dan, you need a lawyer to explain it.Dan: A lawyer and more than 100 words, correct.Joel: Thank goodness we have one.Dan: Right. Precisely.Joel: Who's an expert.Dan: Yes. Okay. Joel, can you take us ... I mean again just on a brief overview of what the Public Charge Rule is.Joel: So going back 100 years when immigrants came to the United States to Ellis Island, they were in essence judged at that point by “are you going to be able to make a living in the United States without securing or being dependent on government benefits.” And in every family there is a legend about how that answer was given to the immigration officer. A strong handshake, a description of what the person's skill level was, his history in the country he came from, a smile. All of those things are part of everybody's family history.Joel: For the last 25 years or so, immigration has focused on what I'll call an objective standard. That if you can show that you have income or you've had income or your employer is going to pay you more than 125% of the poverty level, then there's no need for a handshake or a smile. There's no discussion. It was just you knew that that case was going to go through. There was a consistent standard depending on what your history of earning or what your projection of earning is, or if you did not have that, a relative could file an affidavit of support saying that they would support you. Or if you ever tried to get on government benefits, their assets would be deemed your assets, and you couldn't get the government benefit. And that process has worked for the last 20 or 25, perhaps 30 years. It was all on paper, and it was all objective. Didn't matter really what, anything about you, what your education was, what your level of English was, what's your job prospect was.Joel: Now immigration is divided between family immigration and business immigration or employment immigration. So if you are on the employment immigration side and you were coming because you had a job that no American could fill. So obviously you had some projection of income. You had some security of income. Those cases are still going to be pretty much the same, but family based cases will be impacted by this new rule, which essentially says we're going to view this on a subjective basis. We're going to look at you and we're going to see what is your education, what is your age, your health, your family status, your assets, your resources, your skill level. And we're going to take a complete picture of you and we're going to decide whether or not you are going to become dependent on government benefits to survive in the United States.Joel: It's moving from somebody looking at paperwork and giving you the opportunity in a letter to respond by saying, "Well, if that's not good enough, I'll get uncle so-and-so to give me another affidavit." To a situation where that's only going to be part of it. Whether someone's given you an affidavit, it's only going to be part of the total subjective picture of who you are and whether you're going to become dependent on public benefits.Paul: Seems like Joel, you're going to need an interview now, right? There's got to be some interaction in order to answer some of that.Joel: Well, it just so happens that one of the other initiatives of the Trump administration is called... It requires a total review of your situation, and almost every case today is interviewed. So in the past, the only cases that were interviewed were marriage cases, other cases. So for example, if you wanted to bring a parent to the United States, if you wanted to bring a child to the United States, there was no reason to interview you. In a marriage case, they interviewed you to see if you were really married.Paul: Subject of many popular films and literature, et cetera, et cetera. The sham marriage, right?Joel: Yes. But everything else was judged on the basis of a petition. Is the relationship true? Is there a birth certificate? But the Trump administration issued an executive order that said, "No, we want everybody to be vetted." That vetting process includes pretty much an interview for every single case, which is why there's become a serious backlog at the US Citizenship and Immigration Services because they weren't geared up for that.Paul: Wow. So, Joel, what's the impact? What are you seeing? I mean, obviously it's slowing things down, but how bad?Joel: It's slowing things down to a point that it's unpredictable when you're going to be seen by the US CIS and how long your case is going to take to be completed, especially if you are an employment-based case where historically they have not interviewed these cases. So it's taking, I would say probably an additional three to six months for them to get to you. I expect that it'll go to six to nine months pretty soon if it hasn't already. In a marriage case, married to a US citizen, I'm not seeing a serious slow down. Maybe two or three months backlog greater than before. But they officially like to get their cases completed in six months. I don't know that they can meet that target anymore.Paul: Now a lot of your clients are businesses with employment cases, correct?Joel: Yes. Many of our clients are employers who are either established or in the process of establishing that a particular employee from abroad is not going to impact the US labor market, that there is a shortage of this skill set.Paul: They're a specialist of some kind.Joel: Or they are a distinguished professor, researcher or a person of extraordinary ability. Somebody who is at the very top of their field and they've established to the satisfaction of the Department of Homeland Security that they are at the very top of their field and deserving to come to the United States as an extraordinary ability alien. So those are the kinds of cases, that the kinds of employment cases we handle.Dan: One thing that's important to point out with the Public Charge Rule here is that it was some federal courts pumped the brakes on it. They blocked the rule here, but that probably won't be the last time we hear of it. Correct?Joel: No, I would think it's fair to predict that eventually the rule becomes law and that this is a temporary setback for the Trump administration. In fact, there are two government agencies that apply the Public Charge Rule, the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of State. The Department of State processes cases that are where the alien is outside the United States and there is the Department of State is applying this rule and has been applying this rule since it was originally introduced even in the first stage of promulgation of the rule. Department of State picked up on it and there's been an uptick in denials because of public charge at consular offices, consular posts abroad.Joel: So not only is the Department of Homeland Security going to deal with these injunctions and eventually likely to overcome the objections but the Department of State is going to, to some degree or other, enforce this rule that sort of converts this from an objective to a subjective test.Dan: Right. Well, it's certainly a complicated process here, complicated law, but Joel, we appreciate you coming on and speaking with us and helping us break it down here. Definitely more than in 100 words.Joel: Yes.Dan: Hey, thanks again and hope to have you back on.Joel: Thank you for having me. Thank you.Dan: Thanks a lot. Bye.Logan: For our Pittsburgh Polyphony segment this week, we're taking a little bit of a different approach and instead of highlighting a specific artist, we're going to be talking to Connor Murray, the label manager of Crafted Sounds, a local Pittsburgh record label that has about six active bands on their roster right now. Connor, thanks for being with us.Connor: Yeah, thanks for having me, Logan.Logan: Sure. Yes. So if you could of just give us a little rundown of what Crafted Sounds is, kind of how you got into it, and maybe a little background on yourself, that'd be great.Connor: Yeah. So I started the label when I was 18, on my 18th birthday in high school. I tried to play music, try to make music or whatever, just like too stubborn. Didn't put enough time into it. It was also kind of, I don't know, getting frustrated of what I was missing out on as far as new music is concerned because I always like sharing new music with my friends and whatnot. Going to shows, et cetera.Connor: Once I kind of realized that like I personally didn't want to be a musician, I was like, "Okay, how can I be involved?" So there was a couple smaller labels but also like bigger labels that I was very aware of on like independent level. And I was like, "Oh, I'll just do that," without like knowing what goes into that. I mean, I think taking like engineering approach, it's just like once you have your problem statement, that's when you start to figure out what it is, you know how you're going to do that.Connor: So without knowing how I was going to do it, I was like, "All right, I'm just going to run this label." And I don't know. I guess running a label for me was just providing physical format copies to artists that were underappreciated that I really liked, that I felt could be recognized on a more grand scale. And that concept has changed and molded and adapted into other formats, other artists, other sounds, other communities because I'm not from Pittsburgh. So it's been really cool just to be like the, I don't know, number one fan in the back.Dan: Not from here. You're a senior at Pitt, correct?Connor: Yes. Yeah. I'm going to stay here though. As long as I graduate and get my things set straight, I'll be working downtown for a couple of years. So I accepted an offer and I don't know. I like it here. I'm trying to stay here. So yeah.Logan: Pittsburgh tends to pull people in once they get here. I love it. It's a great city.Dan: Steal off Godfather Three, "Once I get out, they pull me back.Logan: Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back.Dan: The only good part of Godfather Three is that line I think. Andy Garcia.Logan: That's something I can really appreciate though that you're saying that you're trying to take these underappreciated artists and kind of what you think is cool. And like you said, be that number one fan and not really worry how much clout they have at the time or how much presence they have at that time. But something that you could take and really mold and them to do. But so it sounded like you kind of just took a hands-on like dive-in approach. Like you said, you didn't really know exactly what you were doing. Kind of what were some of the first things and the first steps that you took that to develop some of your artists you look back on now.Connor: I guess far as like the label's concern, I mean the first thing I was... It's like the name of the label and the imaging. It has to be cool I guess. At least to me, it has to be something other people could stand behind. I made the logo a house because I was just sitting in my house, scratching on papers, little sketches here and there. And I was like, "Oh, I should just like make it a house because I'm going to be doing this inside my house anyway." We're not going to make money. So I just made a very simple geometric house, like very, very simple and put letters out of the chimney. I didn't do anything crazy. So that was kind of where I started with that, the imaging.Connor: I guess as far as artists and where to start with that. I guess at first, the first record was through a friend of a friend. She was in New Mexico and she was like, "Hey, this guy is making cool music." And it's like, "Yeah, I like it." I mean, at that point I had no standard. I mean the music... I mean, I still love that record, but I didn't really look at who's this artist; what are their goals; where do they want to be; what have they done in the past; how long are they going to be continuing this.Connor: I was just like, "Wow, I like this music. Let's do it." That project fizzled out real quick. And I was just like, "Oh, maybe there's other things I should consider when I work with people. Maybe like communication should be clearer. Maybe I should be asking more questions. Maybe I should be setting things... Being more transparent on both ends and kind of make it bit by bit." It took me at least a year to figure out ballpark estimate how to do PR in house. By now I'm very jaded but a lot of people have been through a lot of crap. They dealt with a lot of characters. And I guess kind of conveying a message or pitching something you believe in over email. You have to be very considerate and very persistent at the same time. So it's like there was that. I guess show booking was the thing that took like a year and a half after that. Little steps. What's another thing I can put on my utility belt.Dan: Something interesting about your business, we were talking about this a little bit before we got going here. But everybody's really into vinyl these days. It's gotten really popular. You are into cassettes, which Logan, cassettes were on their way out whenever you were born. I mean, I remember using them as a kid. I remember my parents had a ton of them and stuff. But why cassettes? Why are they back?Connor: So essentially there was the resurgence of vinyl and that was cool. It started with indie labels getting back into it and supporting the format. And those real music nerds, shout out. But eventually the major labels caught on and there's only so many plants. So the cost of manufacturing the vinyl is just skyrocketed. Minimums have gotten higher obviously, and it's hard for an independent artist or an independent label to bite that initial investment and keep doing it even if it is cool. There's a point where you got to kind of make money unfortunately.Connor: I mean, if you don't really make money, we break even on everything and happy trails. But because it got so expensive, tapes kind of slowly kind of became more feasible, especially because people were just adopting the format. They were like, "Hey, I don't really want a CD." Whether it's because you could just download the music or stream it or whatever, but tape kind of sits right in between a CD and a record. And sometimes if not more often than not, it's less costly than a CD I guess when you're buying it as a consumer. I don't know. There's a lot you can do as far as customizing it. It doesn't sound good. Tapes don't sound good. I'm not here to tell-Dan: That's what I was thinking, yeah.Connor: I'm not here to defend tapes. Tapes are literally built to like deteriorate, like the acid that is required to make the tape literally destroys it.Connor: But I have older tapes from like the '80s and stuff and they sound terrible. But-Dan: Do you find people buy them? You can find people that-Connor: Yeah, I mean, we've, I don't know. I keep mostly everything that I have as far as like paper receipts and electronic receipts. I have binders full of just notes, and I've duplicated over 1000 tapes.Dan: Wow.Connor: Over 2000 tapes. Yeah. And to think like, "Wow, I've sold over 1000 tapes." It's like pretty hilarious. Cool.Dan: Some cassette holders are actually perfect cases for your cell phone too, so you can just keep all your music on your phone and put the phone inside the cassette tape holder, and it's perfect. Yeah.Logan: That's funny. I appreciate you being here, Connor. And I believe there's a track that you wanted to end us off with today from one of your bands. Is that correct?Connor: Yeah, yeah. Last month we put a track out. We put an EP out with this band called the Zells, local band we mentioned earlier. This is one of their songs. Graze.Dan: Awesome. Can't wait.Logan: Appreciate you being here, Connor.

This week on the P100 Podcast, of course, we had to address the sinkhole that shook Pittsburgh (and fueled a day’s worth of memes). We dig deep to learn how sinkholes form and consider ourselves grateful to be above ground (it was only a few blocks away from us). Elsewhere in the episode:Alexandra Loutsion, a soprano singing the lead role in Pittsburgh Opera’s “Florencia en el Amazonas,” stops by.Priya Amin of Flexable discusses her childcare solution for working parents and gives a preview of an upcoming webinar.A Veterans Day tribute to those who served.----more----This Episode is sponsored by WordWriteCenturies before cell phones and social media, human connections were made around fires as we shared the stories that shaped our world. Today, stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts and minds and inspire action. At WordWrite, Pittsburgh's largest independent public relations agency, we understand that before you had a brand, before you sold any product or service, you had a story.WordWrite helps clients to uncover their own Capital S Story. The reason someone would want to buy, work, invest or partner with you through our patented story-crafting process. Visit wordwritepr.com to uncover your Capital S Story.Here's the full transcript from this episode.Logan: You are listening to the P100 Podcast, the biweekly companion piece to the Pittsburgh 100 bringing you Pittsburgh news, culture and more, because sometimes 100 words just isn't enough for a great story.Paul: Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the P100 Podcast, the audio companion to the Pittsburgh 100. I'm Paul Furiga, here along with my colleagues, Dan Stefano and Logan Armstrong.Dan: Hey Paul.Logan: How you doing?Paul: Guys, we have a great episode today. We're talking about big black holes.Dan: Everybody's seen the hole now, but yes.Paul: Yes, we are. Singing a little bit, accurate gentlemen, Pittsburgh Opera.Dan: That's true. Yeah. We're not singing, fortunately, but there is singing in this episode.Paul: We have a great guest on, who's going to talk about a really cool initiative called Flexable.Dan: Yeah, it's a company that is involved in instant onsite childcare and it's an issue that affects a lot of working parents and I think you want to hang on for that interview. It's definitely interesting.Paul: And we're going to be talking about Veterans Day.Dan: Absolutely.Logan: Finish it off strong.Paul: That's right.Dan: Yeah. That's the way we love Veterans Day, actually, it's a great holiday.Logan: It's also (beep) birthday.Dan: Hey, that's supposed to be ... That's spoiler alert there, we don't want to talk about that.Paul: Is that how that wound up in this episode?Dan: I know. I can't do another little ... Maybe the last five minutes is just a celebration of (beep), or maybe it isn't. I don't know. We all have to hang on.Paul: I don't think so, folks.Dan: No.Paul: Stay tuned.Paul: All right, now we want to talk about holes, sometimes black holes, sometimes big holes, sometimes big holes, small holes.Dan: Sometimes famous holes.Paul: Sometimes famous holes. All of them, sinkholes.Dan: I feel like I've seen that in the news lately. I don't know.Paul: Yeah, something about a bus downtown, Dan, going into a hole somewhere.Dan: Bus, Dan, in the sinkhole.Paul: Dan, means the up streets [crosstalk 00:02:12].Dan: Well, you got to work on your [inaudible 00:02:15] accent, but you're getting-Paul: I don't think so.Dan: Yeah.Logan: The Cleveland is showing.Dan: Yes, exactly.Paul: All right, so, holes. I have a word for you gentlemen. You ready?Dan: Got you.Paul: This is not a Pittsburgh ethnic food, although it sounds like one. Karst. K-A-R-S-T.Dan: Yeah. I need a definition.Paul: All right. Karst, occurs in bedrock, that’s primarily limestone and it's like an underground cave system that water rushes through. The most common form of sinkholes is caused by karst. We don't really know yet which caused the sinkhole that happened downtown, what we do know is that the Allegheny River has a limestone bed. That is why the water in the Allegheny River is clear, whereas the water in Monongahela is brown because that's more of a mud bottom.Dan: You and I have varying definitions of clear, but yes, it is definitely cleaner than the stuff in the Mon.Paul: If you go upstream…Dan: Yeah. Oh, now like elegant Armstrong County.Paul: Yes.Dan: Beautiful.Paul: It is beautiful.Logan: Here's the thing, are we sure the Mon is only dirty because of the mud?Paul: I didn't say, only dirty because of the mud, I do know it has a mud bottom.Dan: Like, 40, 50 years ago, it was definitely ... I can only imagine how dirty it was.Paul: Guys, that's how that airplane disappeared into the Mon however many years ago.Dan: Correct.Logan: Oh yeah.Paul: Right into the Mon.Dan: Maybe it went down a sinkhole.Paul: Yeah. Okay. Paul: Back to karst, which is not like pierogi or kraut or any of the great ethnic foods we have in town here. That's the main reason in Pennsylvania that we have a lot of sinkholes and there are a lot of sinkholes in Pennsylvania. There's another reason. Mining. There's a lot of unchartered mines. We really have had an epidemic lately of things collapsing. The sinkhole that occurred in the South Hills. Big water main break.Dan: That's affected my house.Paul: Yes. That's another reason that sinkholes happen. Underground infrastructure. That might be the case here, we really don't know.Logan: Yeah. Either way, Pittsburgh, as you said, has had quite a history of some interesting sinkholes and there've been multiple cases in the past few years that have been documented. Around the world too, there have been houses that have been swallowed by sinkholes, but specifically here in Pittsburgh, an interesting story that I found just the other day, was a man who was actually just walking, and this has happened a few years ago, was walking underneath an underpass and just all of a sudden a sinkhole opened and he fell 10 feet into the ground.Dan: Where was this? What neighborhood?Logan: That happened in Glassport, he had to call 911 using his own phone and they came and rescued him an hour later when he was sitting 10 feet underground.Dan: You probably got a bad signal when you're in a sinkhole … no bars.Logan: I would think that was a prank call.Paul: One bar, which when they arrived they probably thought he'd been in a bar before he fell in the hole.Dan: Paul, I think you have some more insight though, right?Paul: This is such a big problem. There are two Pennsylvania state government departments, the department of natural resources and also the department of environmental protection, that have massive micro-sites including interactive maps all about sinkholes. So it's not your imagination, sinkholes are a real problem here. In fact, there is an Instagram account devoted to sinkholes in Pittsburgh. It's unofficial @pwsasinkholes, all one word. @pwsasinkholes on Instagram. Check it out, the bus picture's there, but so are a lot of other very interesting ones. I don't think the one from Glassport made it though.Logan: That's a shame. It might just be within city limits but-Paul: Might be.Logan: It would take quite a sinkhole to top what we saw last week.Dan: Oh it was incredible. Fortunately no one was hurt so we were able to make memes and social media was able to go crazy over this.Paul: Made the national news, international news.Dan: Right. It also reminds you though that it could have been a lot worse and that this is something that needs to be figured out. Infrastructure in Pittsburgh and all over Pennsylvania and the Northeast, it's just old.Paul: Your average water distribution system in an urban area like Pittsburgh is easily a hundred years old, so that may well be the cause. We don't know. One thing we do know, according to our government, our Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the average sinkhole in Pennsylvania is four to 20 feet in diameter. This is 75 to a hundred feet, so it's not your imagination, that is one big hole.Dan: For this next segment, we're going to be talking about childcare in the workplace. We have a really interesting guest here with us. It's Priya Amin. She's one of the co-founders of Flexable.Priya: Thanks for having me.Dan: Absolutely. We also have Keira Koscumb. She's one of our fellow WordWriters, and childcare is very important for her because…Keira: I'm pregnant.Dan: Okay. It's super exciting. Yes. Keira, you’re due in January, and this is definitely something we've talked about in the office, just important stuff about childcare here, the cost of it, the availability of it. Priya, can you tell us a little bit about Flexable and just what you guys do there?Priya: Yeah, so Flexable was launched in 2016. It was born out of necessity, quite honestly. My co-founder, Jessica Strong and I, we both have five kids between us, ages four all the way up to 12, almost five up to 12 and we both had professional careers prior to being entrepreneurs, but the common thread that we shared was that childcare was always getting in the way of our professional development. First off, I was a brand manager at Nestle for years. I ended up leaving my career because I just couldn't find the balance between traveling all the time and seeing my children. I felt like my husband and I were ships passing in the night and we barely got to see each other, let alone our kids. So I ended up leaving my career and moving to Pittsburgh and I started a consulting company here and it was great.Priya: It was going really well and I had my second child and unfortunately I kept running into the same issue, which was, I couldn't do this. I could not go to a podcast recording in the morning. I couldn't meet with a client. I couldn't go to networking events because I had a three year old and a baby in a pumpkin seat. It was distracting and it was unprofessional and it was just really stressful for me. So that kind of planted a seed in my head to say, how can I create something that marries work and life together? How can I fit life and work together better? That was the start of Flexable.Priya: Flexable provides on demand onsite childcare at offices, conferences and events to help parents, to help women be able to have a seat at the table, to not miss professional development events, to miss work or to even miss doctor's appointments. We have some really great strategic partnerships with some large organizations around town, but the pinnacle partnership that we have is with Allegheny Health Network. We provide childcare at their women's behavioral health clinic to help patients get the therapy that they need specifically for postpartum depression care. We're affiliated with the Alexis Joy D'Achille Postpartum Depression Care Unit, and our caregivers go and provide childcare so that women can get the care that they need and not put childcare ahead of their own needs.Priya: We employ 32 highly vetted caregivers. These are people that have background checks, clearances, first aid, CPR, and they pick up shifts pretty much like any other gig economy job. So it's similar to Uber or Lyft from that perspective. A caregiver goes onto our system, finds a job that's on a Wednesday afternoon, picks up that shift. They have all the supplies that they need. They have all the play supplies, games, toys, crafts, all of that stuff, but they also have all the safety supplies. So corner guards, outlet covers, first aid kits, rubber gloves, Clorox wipes, all of that. So they arrive on site, they set up, they take care of kids, they clean up and they leave.Dan: That's fantastic. Keira, I know that's got to be something that sounds pretty interesting for you. Once maternity leave ends for you, I know your husband, he's got a full time job that's pretty important. Yourself, you need to go on a lot of client calls and meetings outside of the office. How does something like this sound to you?Keira: It sounds great. Daycare is expensive, you're on a waiting list. I think this evolution has happened with companies where in the past, maybe 10 years ago, I always viewed being somebody that wasn't planning on getting pregnant anytime soon, single and working. I viewed the companies as the enemy, they won't let me do these things, they won't let me be flexible with my kids when it's really not that way anymore. Companies are willing to pony up and be flexible, but it is just a time thing for parents. You know what I mean? You have stuff to get done at your job and you're responsible for things. So how you balance that guilt of, not letting your co-workers and your company down, with spending time with your family and kids and your husband and making sure that, what's the point of having this kid if you're just going to shell out a bunch of money for them to be sitting in a daycare or sitting with a nanny?Keira: So, this is definitely something that's attractive. I guess my question for you would be is, it doesn't sound like this is ever permanent. It's more like a temporary thing. It's not like WordWrite could ever hire Flexable to have a daycare that, Dan or me or whoever could bring our kid in every day.Priya: You could. Right now though, the best scenarios that we've seen with organizations is having childcare when it's needed, so at events or at a conference or on that one specific day, if it's election day, for example. We're also a relatively new company and I think that's one of the reasons why we haven't had these long-term commitments with organizations, but we're starting to see that. Amazingly, we have a 100% contract renewal rate with all of our customers because they see that once they have our caregivers at one event, parents keep asking for it and they're like, why can't we have this during these days or whatnot? So that's what we're working towards. We're working towards creating more of a more, not permanent footprint, but definitely a more regular footprint in some organizations so that it becomes synonymous with the company's culture, with their benefits, for example, just something that is a part of their inclusivity package. So it just helps people be more productive and just be there.Dan: Priya, for our listeners at home here, they can hear more from you. You have a webinar coming up later in the month on November 21st, can you give us a little preview of what that's going to be about?Priya: Yeah, so with the GPMP, we have a webinar coming up later this month on childcare as an inclusivity driver in the workplace. We see that when parents take time off to take care of their children, actually roughly $6 billion hit to the workforce, the American workforce, and unfortunately the majority of that is women. It's about 75% of the women who have left the workplace because of childcare reasons, only about a quarter of them even come back and even those that do take time off of work, there is such a hit to their personal finances but also to the greater economy as well. So we'll be talking about some of that. We'll be also talking about how things like childcare could potentially help drive productivity and inclusivity at work and give some best in class examples of those, not only in Pittsburgh but across the country as well.Dan: That's great. We're looking forward to hearing more about that then. For everybody who is interested in that webinar, we'll be sure to include a link in the show summary and in the Pittsburgh 100 that's going to drop on November 7th, and again that webinar is on November 21st so plenty of time to sign up. If you want to hear more about Flexable, you can find them at flexablecare, all one word, .com and even if you need to hire somebody for some childcare, it's a great place, but Keira and Priya, I really appreciate you guys coming in and just this is a great conversation.Priya: Thanks so much.Dan: Thanks a lot.Logan: Centuries before cell phones and social media, human connections were made around fires as we shared the stories that shaped our world. Today, stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts and minds and inspire action. At WordWrite, Pittsburgh's largest independent public relations agency, we understand that before you had a brand, before you sold any product or service, you had a story. WordWrite helps clients to uncover their own Capital S story, the reason someone would want to buy, work, invest or partner with you through our patented storycrafting process. Visit wordwritepr.com to uncover your Capital S story.Dan: All right. Hey everybody. As promised in the introduction here, we've got a pretty special treat for you here and we're bringing a little bit of culture to the 100 today too. We're here with Alexandra Lucian of the Pittsburgh Opera. She's in town for a new show that's just starting this week.Alexandra: Thank you so much for having me.Dan: Yeah, absolutely. It's going to be exciting for you coming back because you're a local, right?Alexandra: I am a local. I'm born and raised in Canonsburg, PA. Went to Chartiers Houston high school and so it's always a joy to come back to my hometown.Dan: Great. Can you tell us a little bit about the show that you're going to be on?Alexandra: Yes. The show that we're doing at Pittsburgh Opera right now is called Florencia en el Amazonas, which translates to Florence on the Amazon. Basically, it is a Spanish language opera, which is the first that Pittsburgh Opera is producing. The piece itself, it's a very unique opera because first of all, it's very short. It's two hours with intermission. So it's kind of the perfect step into opera if you've never checked it out before. The music itself is almost like a Disney movie. It's very cinematic and lush and the setting is in South America, so it sounds very tropical and very accessible and very easy to listen to. It's very beautiful.Alexandra: The story is basically about Florencia, who is a famous opera singer actually and left her hometown of Manaus in Brazil a long time ago to pursue an opera career and 20, I think it's about 20 years or so, and 20 years later she's now coming back because she feels like her life hasn't fully been fulfilled. Part of the reason is because she left her lover behind and his name is Cristóbal, and she wants to come back and find him again and reunite with him.Dan: Right. You're playing the lead role of Florencia, right?Alexandra: Yes.Dan: Okay, that's awesome. One thing that's interesting, and again, I'm pretty inexperienced when it comes to opera, but one thing that I find interesting about it, is it seems like there's always is a mix of fantastical and some grounded maybe romance that's involved. Do you see those big themes in a lot of operas?Alexandra: Absolutely, yes. There's a lot of fairytales in opera, I'd say, and kind of larger than life stories and sometimes stories that don't make a lot of sense. But the cool thing about this piece is that it really ... It was written by a Mexican composer and a Latin American librettist. They really wanted to celebrate their own culture, and a big part of that culture is magical realism, which is basically magic that kind of takes the form of something real. So, we're sitting in the studio, it would be like, if one of us started to levitate in that world, that wouldn't be anything weird because that's what magical realism is.Logan: That's very cool. As a musician myself, I know from a pretty young age, I really wanted to do something in music and I was always very entranced by it. Was that kind of your same experience? Did you always know that you wanted to do something in opera or at least musical or did that come a little later?Alexandra: Yeah, I always sang. I drove my parents nuts actually, because I would sing around the house and I would also sing in church with my dad, and basically they got to the point where they were like, we need to do something with this kid or else she's going to drive us crazy. So I auditioned for what used to be called the Children's Festival Chorus in Pittsburgh and is now the Pittsburgh Youth Chorus. I sang with them for six years, and that was the first spark of really being into classical music and singing. So I did that. I did high school musicals. I did the Junior Mendelssohn choir also. So all of these things, led me in this direction because I started singing in foreign languages from the time I was eight years old.Dan: Oh, wow.Alexandra: I also grew up Greek Orthodox, so we sing in Greek too in church. So I was kind of surrounded with that. So for me, I started to take voice lessons and I realized that I didn't sound like any of the people on the musical theater recordings, I sounded like the opera recordings, so I went to Pittsburgh Opera to check out an opera when I was 15, which was Turandot and I completely fell in love with it, and then almost 20 years later, I sang Turandot here two years ago. So yeah, it's been a cool journey.Dan: Well, something about that journey then, in my thinking, I would just assume that, a singer stays with the same company for a while or you're contracted or something. But looking at your history here, you've been all over. That's Minnesota, Chicago, Canada, New Orleans, pretty much anywhere and everywhere. This has got to be like ... It's quite the career I imagine, it takes you a lots of cool places.Alexandra: Yeah, opera is very unique in that way, in this country in particular. In Europe it's a little different, but here we are freelancers and basically we have managers mostly, but we're kind of our own entity. So this year I'm in Minnesota, here, Palm Beach, Chicago twice and then Austin, so yeah, you just kind of bop around and you get used to traveling and meeting new people every time, new cast, new company, and then sometimes you get to come back to old favorites, like here.Dan: Right. Is it exciting to come back to Pittsburgh then? Do you get a lot of friends and family in the crowd?Alexandra: Oh yeah. It's really great. I have a really supportive community. I'm very lucky and Pittsburgh Opera also has been very generous in working with me, in bringing in my community, which is the Greek community here. Last time for Turandot and this time they are doing a Greek night for all of the Greeks in the area, they're-Dan: Quite few.Alexandra: Yes, exactly. There's some ticket discounts for opening night and some backstage tours and things like that.Dan: Someone who isn't familiar with opera like myself, probably other people in this office and it's something that sometimes it might feel like it's inaccessible, like in my head I say, well I don't know these languages, but ... Why would you recommend someone who hasn't experienced it to just try it out, get to a show?Alexandra: Yeah. I think that first of all, you'll never be lost in the story, because there's always English super titles that are projected above the stage. That's first and foremost. So you were not just going to go in and hear the story and be like, what the heck are they saying? Because you'll know. We try to also provide synopsises and stuff, but the super titles are a huge help. I also think that in our digital age, we hear a lot of music through our computers and through our phones, but the cool thing about opera I think is that, it's like music in its purest form. We don't use any microphones, and that is something that's really cool. We're singing, like the opera I just did was a 90-piece orchestra and I did not use a microphone in a 2,500 seat hall.Alexandra: That's what we're trained to do and it's pretty cool to hear the raw human voice singing like that in a big space. The Benedum's almost 3,000 seats and it's kind of a way to bring all of the pieces together of lots of different art forms. So you've got singing, you've got instruments, you've got set design. This one has projections, so there's kind of like a movie going on behind the sets. There's costuming. So there's something for everybody, which I think is really neat. If you're into seeing interesting costumes, you can check that out. If you're into singing, you can check that out. If you're into the symphony, you can check that out. So it's kind of something for everyone.Dan: One thing that we'd be remiss to not point out here is that these shows are coming up here, going to be on November 9th, 12th, 15th and 17th you can still grab tickets at pittsburghopera.org. They're all going to be at the Benedum Center, which is an awesome venue, I imagine a lot of people have been there, but if you haven't, it's really great to see, and do you enjoy playing there as well?Alexandra: Oh yeah. It's so beautiful. It's one of the most beautiful venues in the city I think, and there's so much of our history as Pittsburghers in that venue, thinking of it as like a movie house back in years and years and years ago and then a performing venue. It's really amazing, and when you think about all of the different shows that have been on that stage, it's really cool to be able to share the stage with that kind of history.Dan: Alexandra, last thing we're going to ask you, can you hit a note for us?Alexandra: Sure. Okay. Let's see. (singing)Dan: I don't think we can end this segment any better than that. Alexandra, thanks for being here, and everybody try to get to the opera. At some point here for Florencia en el Amazonas or they've got a lot of great shows coming up in 2020 too, so thank you again Alexandra.Alexandra: Thank you guys so much.Dan: OK guys, we have another important holiday coming up here. Within the next week we'll be at Veterans Day, which is the day that obviously, we celebrate all our servicemen and women about, just the people who are serving and making big sacrifices for us here. Unlike Memorial Day, which is another important one, I think Veterans Day is an important one because it's about the living too.Paul: That’s right Dan, absolutely.Dan: Yes, and Paul, you just had an interesting experience though. You were over in the UK and you had a chance to really learn about how people over in Europe feel about our veterans.Paul: That’s right. I think this is really an important way to look at Veterans Day, Dan, because, given the geography of the United States, with the exception of the terrible 9/11 attack, we've never really been invaded or bombarded in the way that Europe was during the Second World War. Those events are fading further and further into history. We're coming up next year on the 75th anniversary of the end of that war, so it was surprising to me, as you mentioned, a group of about 40 of us from the States went over to my dad's old airbase and my dad was in the Eighth Air Force. He was a bombardier navigator, and of this group of 40 there were three veterans, each one of them, 96 years old. Two of them brought their significant others who were also not spring chickens, and then the rest of us were mostly kids of World War II veterans or in some cases grandkids.Paul: We had a few who were nephews and nieces as well. It was a very interesting group. So 75 years ago, 1944, was a time period when my dad's airbase was really up and running and my dad was actually there. I think that different perspective, and I did one article about this, I'll probably do another one in the 100, we went to the cemetery at Mattingly, which is the only cemetery in the UK that has American war dead from World War II, and there's 3,800 graves there and there's another 5,000 memorialized who are still missing 75 years after the end of the war. As you said, really Veterans Day is more about the living. Memorial Day is about those who lost their lives defending the country.Paul: The thing that was really interesting to me, Dan, about this whole trip was the way people overseas view what we as Americans did through our military service. There was a group of people, and I don't mean people who are like our veterans in their '90s, I mean people in their '50s, '60s, '40s, '30s, teenagers, that we met, who care about what happened 75 years ago. And the reason is, as one of the people said to me when he kept profusely thanking me for my dad's service, he said, "No, you don't understand. If your dad and his fellows didn't do what they did, we'd all be speaking German."Dan: To those three men you were there with, right?Paul: That's right. So I came away with this experience of understanding that, it's not just another day to put the flag up out front, it's not just another day when the post office is closed or governments or whatever are not at work. It's a day to celebrate what Americans can do in service of our country and also in service of democracy around the world.Paul: One of the other things I learned, there's a cemetery as well in Holland, there's a four year waiting list for volunteer families, guys, to take care of American servicemen's graves. Again, these ain't people who are 90 years old, we're talking about, families with teenagers, et cetera, et cetera. As we approach this Veterans Day, I think it's a very important perspective to understand that the service of our veterans, it's not just an American thing, it's something that extends far beyond our borders.Dan: That's awesome. That's great to hear. Again, talking about, you can help memorialize our war dead, which is fantastic, but again, Veterans Day and pretty much any day of the year is a day to support and recognize our current veterans. I've got two of my best friends, two friends who were in my wedding are veterans who served over in the Middle East, and I respect the hell out of them for being able to do that. I know for a fact that each of them saw things that I can't even imagine. That's going to have effects on them for the rest of their lives, and so it's important, whether you can find some support online, whether you can maybe donate to causes for veterans or just, hey, pat someone on the back and every now and then give them a call and make sure that they're feeling all right. That's important stuff. I can't say that I served, but what I can do is I can support my friends who did and try to do what you can to make these people recognized, let them know that we care about their sacrifice.Paul: And really, that's kind of, Logan, what I would say to people this time around and certainly, Logan, people in your generation are the people who are overseas right now, doing multiple tours. Again, more than the flag, more than the day off, is doing something to say thank you to veterans.Logan: Yeah, I totally agree. As you said, there's a couple of people I know that are deployed right now overseas. My dad's also a 10-year veteran of the air force. So I completely agree and I think it's very important to recognize both the Memorial and Veterans Day and as you guys both said, just do what you can to support and let them know that we do appreciate all the things that they've done for our country and that things might be very different if they weren't all there, similar to the story that, that gentlemen over in the UK told you. They do a lot of things for us that sometimes go, it can be out of sight, out of mind, because we don't always see them, obviously they're not fighting here on the homeland, but yeah, I think it's very important to recognize and to appreciate them for Veterans Day and every day.Dan: Right. Yeah. So we are very thankful to them, and to be a little tiny bit selfish, I would also say that Veterans Day is my birthday.Paul: Dan, I knew that that was why we really were talking about this day.Dan: It's awkward to bring up because if I'm at a restaurant or something, and they get free entrees, I can't ask for the free dessert or else then I'm just a jerk.Paul: Well, Dan, happy birthday. We'll buy you some ice cream and let's remember our veterans on Veterans Day.Logan: And we are well beyond 100 words today. Thank you for listening to the P100 podcast. This has been Dan Stefano, Logan Armstrong and Paul Furiga. If you haven't yet, please subscribe to p100podcast.com or wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Twitter @pittsburgh100_, for all the latest news, updates and more from the Pittsburgh 100. 

 As Pittsburgh prepares to mark one year since the attack on the Tree of Life synagogue, we invited Maggie Feinstein of the 10.27 Healing Partnership to discuss the new center’s mission and how Squirrel Hill has healed over time.Also in this episode, we talk about fear-based marketing, future modes of journalism with a guest who has a special connection to the podcast, and hear a track from a promising singer from Sewickley.----more----This Episode is sponsored by WordWriteCenturies before cell phones and social media, human connections were made around fires as we shared the stories that shaped our world. Today, stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts and minds and inspire action. At WordWrite, Pittsburgh's largest independent public relations agency, we understand that before you had a brand, before you sold any product or service, you had a story.WordWrite helps clients to uncover their own Capital S Story. The reason someone would want to buy, work, invest or partner with you through our patented story-crafting process. Visit wordwritepr.com to uncover your Capital S Story.The full transcript to this episode is here:Logan: You are listening to The P100 Podcast, the biweekly companion piece to The Pittsburgh 100, bringing you Pittsburgh news, culture, and more. Because sometimes 100 words just isn't enough for a great story.Dan: Hey, everyone. We're back. I'm Dan Stefano, host of The P100 Podcast. I'm here with Paul Furiga.Paul: Dan, how are you, my friend?Dan: And our other co-host, Logan Armstrong.Logan: How's it going, Dan?Dan: All right. Yeah, great to have you guys here, and we're happy for everybody to be listening today because it's a special episode. We're coming up to the one-year commemoration of the attack on the Tree of Life Synagogue in our Squirrel Hill neighborhood here. And there's a lot of interesting things going on this time of year. It's been a year of healing, and that's a highlight of the interview we're going to have this week. We're pretty happy to have that. Paul, what are your thoughts?Paul: I'm really looking forward to hearing from Maggie Feinstein, who's now leading the healing center. As you said, this one-year mark is really important for the community. Not just here in Pittsburgh, but beyond as well.Dan: That's right. That's Maggie Feinstein, the director of the 10.27 Healing Partnership and we're really happy to have her today. Also, we'll be talking with Erin Hogan. She's a fellow WordWriter and we'll be talking about fear-based PSA. It's kind of based on a blog she recently wrote. After that, we'll hear from Chris Schroder, the founder of The 100 Companies.Paul: The 100 Companies, right.Dan: Paul, you've met him. You have a pretty deep professional relationship.Paul: We do. And I think folks will enjoy the interview, three ex-journalists sitting around the table commiserating about journalism's past and talking about the future.Dan: Right? Yeah. That's always a lot of fun. And then we'll follow up with a Pittsburgh polyphony and Logan, you have somebody pretty exciting we're going to be talking to, correct?Logan: Yes, I do. We're going to be talking about a young neo soul artist coming out of the city. So I'm excited to talk about that.Dan: Right, yeah we're going to be really happy to hear from, well, we're not going to hear from her I guess, but we'll hear from her in her recording from one of her singles and we're really happy to hear that, and let's get to it.Dan: Okay, everybody. As we mentioned in the introduction, we are nearing the one year mark of the attack on the Tree of Life Synagogue. With us is Maggie Feinstein. She's the director of the newly named 10.27 Healing Partnership. 10.27 that being a reference to the date of the attack in which 11 worshipers were killed on a Saturday morning going to synagogue. It was an act of hate, but our city has responded with a lot of acts of love, including programs like this. So thank you for taking the time to be with us here Maggie.Maggie: Thanks for having me here.Dan: Absolutely. Can you tell us a little bit about your background and what you do with the healing center?Maggie: Absolutely. Thank you very much. My background is as a mental health clinician. I'm an LPC, a master's level clinician, and for the last 10 years or so, my work has really been around what we call brief interventions, working with medical doctors and working in medical environments and providing support to the doctors as well as to the patients when they come in for visits.Dan: Are you from Pittsburgh?Maggie: I'm from Pittsburgh. I grew up in Squirrel Hill. Yes.Dan: Oh wow.Maggie: I still live there and I'm currently raising my kids there.Dan: Being from there, can you tell us what that morning was like that Saturday?Maggie: Absolutely. I think that being from there – it is a very familiar place and it is actually somewhere where I've walked all those streets for many, many years. But that morning I was out for a run with a friend and usually we run through the park, but that morning because it was raining, we had run up and we weren't really paying attention. We ended up on Wilkins and we were running up Wilkins and remarked, Oh my gosh, we keep seeing people we know because that's sort of Squirrel Hill for you, people travel the same routes. And so people kept waving out the windows. So it was a morning unfortunately that I found myself outside of there, but was just about 20 minutes earlier and I was reminded of community really, which is what growing up in Squirrel Hill feels like, that it was hard to run down the street without having to stop and talk to lots of people. Which is a wonderful thing, though on that morning it did feel a little bit scary.Dan: That was an incredible day for all the wrong reasons. Can you tell us a little bit about the healing center then? When we talked previously, you'd mentioned being part of that community and now it's going to be a pretty integral piece I think.Maggie: So being from the neighborhood, it was this opportunity to try and serve the community that's been so great to me. And so after the shooting happened on October 27 there was a lot of amazing community activity going on, which I wasn't part of, but I'm really inspired by the community partners that stepped up to the plate. In Pittsburgh we have had such wonderful cooperation between the congregations, the nonprofits like the Jewish Community Center, Jewish Family and Community Services and the Jewish Federation. And so between the synagogues, those three major institutions as well as the Center for Victims, which is always ready and able to respond to community mental health needs, there was just this really amazing partnership that happened and then being able to eventually incorporate the voices of the victims and the survivors.Maggie: They all together created the 10.27 Healing Partnership. So I'm the director of it, but the truth was that it was the efforts that happened week in, week out afterwards of people really caring and people wanting to have their voices heard when it comes to what community recovery looks like since it was a community trauma.Dan: Right. And there is a level of a federal involvement with this?Maggie: Yes. And so immediately in the aftermath the federal government came, FBI, as well as the Office of Victims of Crime have offered a ton of support. They have people who were able to come in, help our community, help that group of people who were gathering to decide what to do next, help guide them through the process of creating what is generically known as a resiliency center. And those federal groups really were able to give perspective on how do we move forward, how do we gather, how do we anticipate what the community needs might look like, and then respond to those needs.Dan: Right.Logan: And so the, the healing centers recently opened, it opened on October 1st, correct?Maggie: It opened on October 2nd, yes.Logan: October 2nd, okay. And so it's been opened recently. Have you had a chance to gauge how they're responding to it now that it's open?Maggie: I think that opening our doors was a really awesome opportunity because what we say when people are feeling this sense of loss is that there's no wrong door and that the more doors that are open to people, the better. But I also think that before we opened our doors on October 2nd, a lot of people were accessing services through the Center for Victims or through JFCS. And so what we have seen in the last two weeks is that a lot of people are saying this is a relief to know this is here. It's good to know there's a door.Maggie: It doesn't mean that people were sitting and waiting to go just there because there are other places. But what a lot of people say is that I do have a therapist or I've been part of a support group and then there's just some days that feel really hard. And so knowing that I could come in here on those days that just feel hard to be with people, to gather, to maybe get some emotional support or maybe to practice some self-guided relaxation. People are saying, Oh that's really nice to know that's there.Logan: And going off that, I read that you guys actually have someone that will come to greet you when you get there and as you said, some days you're just feeling vulnerable or sad. How do you feel the importance of that is, just kind of having someone there to greet you and bring you in when you're going to the healing center?Maggie: I think it's so important. I think, I mean one functionally for the JCC, for people who are not members of the JCC, because that's where we are housed, we're using space within the JCC. For people who aren't members, it's helpful because they don't know their way around. But more importantly as humans it's nice to connect to people. And one of the things we know is that with trauma we kind of disconnect, we pull away. And so I think the earlier that people can connect and feel like somebody cares and feel like they're not alone, the better it is. And so the greeter role is a really important one where someone can come to the door and walk you up, make sure you have what you need and make sure you're comfortable.Dan: What do you see as a therapist, say the difference between an individual trauma and then traumas that might affect an entire community? I mean, there might be a guy who just works down the street who really, maybe he's not a Jewish person, but this tragedy, I mean, could greatly affect them.Maggie: Absolutely. And I think that's a really important point. And I think it's a good question because I've thought a lot about what is different than when something terrible happens to me and something terrible happens to the bigger community. And I think that there is a challenge because there are so many levels of grieving that can happen when there's a tragedy within the community and all of those different levels of grieving mean that people are hitting it at different moments and people are feeling different things. And so there's sort of these waves, but people aren't necessarily on the same wave as other people. And so that's one of the reasons that the federal government has thought through this, thought of having these resiliency centers and in Pittsburgh our resiliency center is the 10.27 Healing Partnership.Maggie: But to have these resiliency centers was thought out by Congress a long time ago after 9/11 when they realized that as communities continue to experience the losses that happened during a communal trauma, that it's very, the needs change and the needs need to be attended to. We have to keep ourselves aware of them. And one of the things that I would say is that the needs will evolve over time, that just like grief and like other experiences, that because it's a communal trauma, we want to evolve with the community's needs. We don't stay stuck. So the space that we created is meant to be as flexible as possible, but equally the services will be driven primarily by the people who come in and desire them. And the hope with that is that we can respond to what people are looking for rather than what I, with my mental health degree, believe people might be looking for because that's a lot less important than what it is that people are seeking.Dan: Maybe stepping outside of your professional role and just thinking of yourself as a Squirrel Hill resident. After this last year here, what do you see from the community and how do you see that either it has changed, good, bad, where people, where their heads might be and just where people are, how it feels there right now.Maggie: I think that this a high holiday season, Yom Kippur that just passed felt very different for most people. And I think that like most other grieving emotions, there's good and bad, they're complicated, they don't feel just one way. And the good part, I heard a lot of people say how relieving it was to go to synagogue this year and be around old friends, people that we haven't seen for a while and to feel that sense of connectedness. Like I was saying, that's one of the more important things. But for a number of the congregations there was also a sense of being displaced or the absence of the people who had been such wonderful community leaders in their congregations. And so I think that there is a lot of complicated emotions.Maggie: There's a lot of new relationships. There's also deepening of old relationships that are beautiful and wonderful to see and that people have connected not just within the Squirrel Hill community but within Greater Pittsburgh, like you were saying, there's a lot of people who've been affected from outside of Squirrel Hill of course, and a lot of them have come in to reconnect with old friends, to reconnect with community.Maggie: And so those are the moments that feel, we call that the mental health side, we call that the post traumatic growth. Those are opportunities where when something has been broken, there can be a new growth that comes out of it. But that at the same time there's just a big sense of loss. Like I was saying earlier with my morning that day when I came through Wilkins and it's just a small street, anybody from another city wouldn't consider it a major thoroughfare. But it is really hard to have the feeling of the change of the neighborhood with that building currently not being able to be occupied.Dan: What can you tell us with October 27th coming up here, what types of activities or events are going to be going on either at the center or just within the community?Maggie: There has been an effort by that same group of people that I'd mentioned earlier who helped to create the 10.27 Healing Partnership to create community events that happened on 10.27 this year, 10 27 2019. And that was something we learned from other communities was that it had to be owned by the community. And that there has to be something for people to do because there's often a lot of times where we have energy we want to give. So together that group's come up with the motto for the day is remember, repair, together. And those are lessons we've learned from other places. So there'll be community service, there's community service throughout the city. There's ways that people can sign up for slots, but there's also an encouragement that communities can gather on their own and create their own community service. It doesn't just have to be through organized community service.Maggie: And then also there'll be Torah study, which is really important in the Jewish tradition in terms of honoring people after death. And so the Torah study will be happening and there is a communal gathering at Soldiers and Sailors in the evening and throughout the day there'll be activities going on at the 10.27 Healing Partnership at the JCC, we'll be having for people who just don't really know what else they want to do that day. They're welcome to come and gather in community, sit together. The Highmark Caring Place will be there doing activities that are really geared towards being present with ourselves, being able to honor lives that were lost and also being able to support each other in this hard time.Dan: Right. And I'm not sure if we mentioned it earlier, but the Healing Partnership that's located, is that on Murray Avenue at the JCC?Maggie: Yeah, so the JCC sits at Forbes and Murray and Darlington.Dan: Okay, right.Maggie: It takes over that whole block. But yeah, so in Squirrel Hill, Forbes and Murray, and there will not be regularly scheduled activities that Sunday at the JCC. And the only real purpose for coming there will be people who want to gather in community. There won't be exercising or basketball or any of those other things that day.Dan: Right. Where can we find you online?Maggie: So the address is www.1027healingpartnership.org. And on the website we really tried to promote a lot of ways that people can do their own learning, exploration. Even some things that we can do on our own with apps and podcasts and things that people can do at home.Dan: Well Maggie, thank you so much for coming here and thank you so much for what you do in the community. We really appreciate you being here today.Maggie: Thank you so much for having me and thank you for highlighting the important things going on in Pittsburgh.Dan: Absolutely.Dan: All right, we're here with Erin Hogan, she's an account supervisor here at Word Write. And we wanted to talk with Erin here about one of her blogs that she just wrote for our storytellers blog. The title is fear based marketing campaigns are not always the right approach. A really interesting topic. It kind of sparked out of a conversation that we were having in the office and Erin, thanks for being with us and can you tell us a little bit about the blog?Erin: Yeah, thanks for having me. So really, this stemmed from a conversation I actually had with my husband. He sent me this video and asked for my opinion on it. I was, just had to be honest that I really didn't like it.Dan: Okay...Erin: I think it's from a-Dan: You didn't like the video. What's the video?Erin: So the Sandy Hook Promise PSA. It's basically this really dark play on a back to school supplies commercial. So it starts out with kids showing their folders and their backpacks and their skateboard and just general things that people and parents purchase their kids to go to school for the new year. And then it just starts to take a turn. You kind of see some shuffling happening in the background, and you start to notice that there's something happening at this school.Dan: There's an active shooter.Erin: There's an active shooter. And that's really what the video is supposed to get across, supposed to. The goal of this campaign is to show people, it's to encourage knowing the signs of gun violence before they happen. But the thing that really got me going with this video is that you're encouraging to know the signs about gun violence before they happen, when depicting an act of gun violence. That just seems to me counterintuitive to what they're trying to convey. Just in general, the whole concept of my blog, getting back to the point of this segment is fear based approach versus a positive tone of an ad. How do you, what's the best way to tell a story? I mean we're at WordWrite all about storytelling, finding the best way to tell a business story. But even in a general cause related marketing effort, what's the best way to tell a story?Dan: In advocacy, right.Erin: Right. And based on the evidence that I've found in the research, it really doesn't work. So sure everybody remembers the anti-drug PSAs in the ‘80s and ‘90s and 2000 that were funded by the Partnership for a Drug Free America. There was the your brain on drugs. That one was a big, everybody remembers that one. It was the guy in the kitchen saying this is your brain and he shows an egg. And then he hits it into a cast iron pan and says, this is your brain on drugs. And it's supposed to say your brain's fried on drugs. And basically over the years they had a bunch of variations, that it was basically saying if you do drugs, your parents won't approve. Well when was the last time a 14, 15 year old kid listened to what their parents do.Erin: They didn't work and in fact it caused the adverse effect. It encouraged kids to think that drugs were cool. There was something, it was the anti, going against my parents. Whereas they took a shift, a more encouraging shift in the mid 2000s, many of the younger generations will remember this, the above the influence campaigns. Which basically, instead of showing imagery of kids defying their parents and the consequences of their actions, it took a more positive tone, basically showing the positive ramifications of making an informed decision on their own and having the independence and the courage to say no without any oversight from their parents. Those actually performed far better.Erin: So it begs the question to me for a PSA like the Sandy Hook Promise PSA. Would it have had a more resounding impact or a better impact on the viewers if it showed the positives of stopping gun violence versus the negatives of what happens after gun violence occurs?Dan: One thing I think that's important that we'd be remiss if we didn't add here is that the ad itself within, I think a couple of days of it, I think had actually earned millions of dollars or a great sum for Sandy Hook Promise. So for that group, so-Erin: Donated ad spend.Dan: Donated ad, yeah there we go.Erin: Or ad, media placements.Dan: This is why we have Erin on because she can say the right words.Erin: I'm here all night.Dan: Exactly, this is going to be one of two hours now with Erin. No, but it did have an impact. It did, it did, it was successful. And I think something important right now that we have to think of is, do we have to be provocative today? Is that how you get people's attention or is there a way to balance that? Logan, you want to jump in?Logan: Yeah, sure. I think also this is just a microcosm of society at large where we've become less of, even in the media where 20 years ago it counted on who was reporting the right news at the right time and now it's become who's reporting it first, whether or not they have to issue corrections later or not. And so I think in that same kind of click-baity kind of way that that society on, especially on the internet has become, I think that this PSA may have fallen victim to that. And as you said, whether or not that was the right move is kind of debatable, but I think this is a small part of a society's directional move at large.Erin: Yeah, I mean certainly you have to cut through the clutter. No one would dismiss that. Especially any talented marketer. I'm also not insinuating or advocating for doing nothing. Doing nothing is never an answer either-Dan: Right.Erin: They certainly have an admirable cause that they're going after here. And obviously the genesis of the Sandy Hook Promise Organization, it comes out of, it was birthed from a really horrible, horrible tragedy in United States history. But in terms of the approach and just looking at it from a technical messaging standpoint that we as marketers do, I'm just not sure it fully executed what it’s intention initially was.Dan: All right. Well Erin, you definitely gave us a lot to think about here. We thank you for coming on and I think for sure we'll be seeing, as long as we have television, as long as we have advertising, we're going to see similar ads like this, so we'll be sure to keep our eyes on it and follow those trends. So thanks a lot.Erin: Yeah, thanks for having me. Bye guys.Logan: Centuries before cell phones and social media, human connections were made around fires as we shared, the stories have shaped our world. Today, stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts and minds and inspire action. At WordWrite, Pittsburgh's largest independent public relations agency, we understand that before you had a brand, before you sold any product or service, you had a story. WordWrite helps clients to uncover their own capital S story. The reason someone would want to buy, work, invest or partner with you through our patented story crafting process. Visit wordwritepr.com to uncover your capital S story.Paul: We mark an anniversary with this episode of the P100 podcast, the audio companion to the Pittsburgh 100, and that is the second anniversary of the Pittsburgh 100 e-zine. Our podcast is a little bit younger here but we're pleased to have with us in the studio for this segment, Chris Schroder, who is the founder of The 100 Companies. Say hello there Chris.Chris: Good morning Pittsburgh.Paul: The Pittsburgh 100 and this podcast are one of more than 20 affiliated publications in The 100 Companies network. Chris is in town for a few days, visiting, working with us on a few things. So we thought it'd be a great opportunity to give the listeners a little bit of background on why we do the 100, why we do this podcast. And since Dan and I are both former journalists and so is Chris, to have one of those, “didn't journalism used to be great and now where the hell is it going”, sort of a conversation.Dan: Was it ever great?Paul: Dan, your experience might be different than mine.Dan: I wasn't in the Woodward Bernstein era, so I don't know.Paul: I had a tee shirt when I got into journalism, which was during that era. The tee-shirt said "If your mother loves you, if your mother says she loves you, check it out".Chris: Trust, but verify.Paul: That's right. That's right. So Chris, tell us a little bit about your background.Chris: My blood is full of ink. I was a high school newspaper editor, college newspaper editor, came up in the Watergate era, graduated from high school when Nixon was resigning and then worked for six daily newspapers, and then started my own neighborhood newspapers in Atlanta. And we built that up to about a hundred thousand circulation, had about three different titles. About 10 years ago I started working with some journalists in the Atlanta area who worked for the daily newspaper and they were unfortunately being downsized out of the daily paper.Paul: A common refrain.Chris: Yes, and so they, I helped them start a publication there that had a newsletter, website and social media platform. So I helped them start that. I'd developed a revenue model for them. It's doing great 10 years later. But I noticed three or four years in that people were not clicking on the read more link in the stories as much as they used to in the newsletter. They were seeming to be fine with a shorter excerpt. So I tried to come up with a newsletter where you did not have to click through, where everything was contained in the newsletter itself and so we started designing that, realized that might be about a hundred words. So we said, why don't we call it the Atlanta 100, every article be exactly 100 words, every video be exactly a hundred seconds. And we went to market, people really enjoyed it.Chris: And later I talked to a conference of PR owners, about 150 owners in the room, and was telling them the history of content marketing all the way through the rise of newspapers and the fall of newspapers and ended with a journalism project on the Atlanta 100. And at the end of it, 12 owners came up and gave me their business cards and said I'd like to start a 100 in my city. So that thus began the expansion into a network of The 100 Companies.Paul: So Chris, something that Dan and I get a question about quite often, and really Dan is the editorial director here, having come to us directly from journalism. Where do the 100 publications and podcasts like this sit on the journalistic scale? I mean we joked about Woodward and Bernstein, obviously we're not an investigative journalism enterprise. How would you describe what we do?Chris: Well, we are part of what I see as the new emerging marketplace in media where we've had a sort of disassembling over the last few years of the traditional media marketplace. So 1,800 newspapers have closed in the last 18 years. Tens of thousands of journalists have been let go to be put into other jobs or find other careers. We've had a lot of changes, a lot of new emerging media coming up digitally. There's a lot of interest of course in the last 20 years in social media, but now we're finding the problems in that with Facebook and other issues of privacy.Chris: So I think what we are is a part of the solution and part of the experimentation that we will in another five years start to see a lot of clarity as people start to organize and merge. And there will be some platforms that emerge and some that fall away as we're seeing now with the larger level of some of the streaming, a lot of organization going on with HBO and AT&T and Comcast and different people trying to organize who's going to win. There'll probably be three or four winners in the streaming of video. Disney's getting into it, so many other people are. But there's going to be a consolidation there. Eventually, there'll be a consolidation of, as there was in the beginning of traditional newspapers in America in the 1700s, there will be eventually a settling of the industry and we certainly expect the 100 platform to be one of the winners.Paul: So gentlemen, last question, biggest question. What is the future of journalism?Dan: Well, if I could jump into it first here. Obviously the 100 gives us again, just a small little piece of the media landscape here in Pittsburgh. We're not going to be, we're never going to be the PG. We're not that. And it's not what we're trying to be. But I see a lot of former journalists in Pittsburgh that have found websites that maybe five, 10 years ago people would've considered blogs and blogs maybe had a stigma compared to them. But now we're seeing really sharp good people with news sense.Paul: Yes.Dan: They understand what is newsworthy.Paul: Storytellers.Dan: They're good writers, they're storytellers and they're finding these outlets that people are starting to gravitate to. Not long ago we had Rossliynne Culgan of The Incline on. They're doing a lot of great work there. Between say Next Pittsburgh, we see good stuff from out of them. There are a lot of good small outlets that journalists are flocking to after they either lose their job or they just realize that, I hate it, there's not much of a route forward in the newspapers. So there's always going to be room for people that know how to write, I feel like.Paul: Yes. And tell stories and write information. Chris.Chris: I think storytelling is very primal. That's how we all learned to hear, store and retrieve information as children. And it goes back millennia, the storytelling tradition. So I think it's very important to do it in as few as a hundred words or as many as 10,000 words. I'd like to look at journalism on a continuum and I think what's going to happen, I like to think that it's all sort of a pendulum. And that while in the last five to 10 years, our attention spans have gotten much shorter, I think we're poised and ready for what I think might be one day a pendulum swing by a future generation who, attention spans will start to push to be much longer and they'll appreciate the longer read and the longer write. And I think that could happen. Right now we're still in the throws of people just getting very short morsels of information. Twitter did expand from 140 to 280 characters, but I think we're going to see two or three years from now, people start to settle in and realize that morsels are good, but it still leaves them hungry.Paul: Well, Chris, really appreciate the perspective. Thanks for being here in Pittsburgh and joining us for this segment on the podcast today. We will have to have you back at some time in the future and see how some of your predictions and Dan's have meted out.Chris: Well, you all are doing great work. You're one of the leaders of our national network, and so thank you for the work you're doing and the innovations you're doing with this podcast and other things. Keep up the great work.Paul: Thank you, Chris.Dan: Thanks, Chris.Dan: Okay, we're back for another edition of our Pittsburgh polyphony series here and really enjoy this one because we get a chance to learn about some new artists that are doing some great things in the region here and Logan, this is a pretty new, interesting artist that we want to talk about here and can take us to introduction.Logan: So we're going to be talking about Sierra Sellers today. Neo soul, RMB, jazz artist in the Pittsburgh region and she's been putting out some tracks, but she's really seen some recognition in the recent past and I had the opportunity to see her at Club Cafe about a month ago and she just really brings a lot of great energy to the room. She has a great voice and her and her band really interact well and she just brings a lot of positive vibes to the audience.Dan: Yeah, that's one thing I think, you talk about the energy here and that's an important part of a performer here. As a guy, as an artist yourself, what do you think that offers whenever somebody can kind of control a crowd?Logan: Oh, it's invaluable. I mean it's the same as any other kind of entertainer, whether you're a comedian or anything else up on stage. And being a performer versus doing a performance is the difference between getting up on stage and singing or rapping or whatever you're doing, all your songs or giving an actual performance and putting on a show to the audience. So, one is vastly more memorable and more connective than the other. And being able to do that on stage is something that, if you want to be a successful artist, you're going to have to learn how to do.Dan: When you talk about Sierra, what exactly is it that she uniquely brings to the stage?Logan: Yes. So initially it's just herself. She just has kind of a bubbly personality, but she also gets the crowd to interact and she tells some stories from inspiration behind the songs or inspiration behind the instrumental or the production and talks with the band and just really kind of gets a feel for the audience and kind of feels them out and is able to work the crowd.Dan: That's awesome. Can you tell us a little bit about the track we're about to hear?Logan: Yes. So we're about to hear a track of Sierra's called Shine. It's a recent track, the leader on Spotify's playlist. They have a set of astrological sign playlists, with a pretty prominent following, and this landed her on Spotify as Libra playlist. It's collaboration with fellow Pittsburgh rapper who goes by My Favorite Color, which is a great name. But yeah, we're going to lead you out with Shine by Sierra Sellers. A nice vibey track. Great for just a chill day. Just a little mood booster. So hope you enjoy. 

 In this episode of the P100 Podcast, our hosts Paul, Dan and Logan welcome Nicole Chynoweth from the Carnegie Science Center to discuss the center’s new exhibit on mummies. From there we move on to the science of fear, and then on to hockey with their guest, Jeremy Church. This episode wraps up with a review of some unique Pennsylvania town names. We bet you have your favorites.----more----Full transcript here:Logan: You are listening to the P100 podcast, the biweekly companion piece to the Pittsburgh 100, bringing you Pittsburgh news culture and more because sometimes 100 words just aren't enough for a great story.Dan: Hi everyone. Welcome back to the P100 Podcast, we're happy to have you back for another episode. I am Dan Stefano, I'm here with Logan Armstrong. Logan.Logan: How's it going?Dan: A pleasure to have you with us and Paul Furiga will be joining us in a little bit. Today's episode we're going to be talking about mummies. Not your mothers, not like that Logan. I see you, that's what you're thinking. No, just having a pleasant thought, thinking about dear old mom. No, Okay.Dan: Now, we're actually going to be talking about the mummies that you might think of whenever you think of ancient Egypt and other parts of the world here. There's a new exhibit at the Carnegie Science Center - Mummies of the World, and we're really excited to talk with someone from the Science Center about that.Dan: Afterward, we're going to be discussing the science of fear. Keeping with us, somewhat of a Halloween type of theme here. Then, we're going to be talking about, what everybody knows, it's the beginning of hockey season. Logan, you excited about that?Logan: No. Dan: No. You're not excited about hockey. Okay. Well, I am and some other people in the office, and we're going to be talking with one of them about the growth of youth hockey in the region, which is really something that's taken off in the past few couple of decades here in Pittsburgh. And we're going to finish up with Logan and I being just as serious we are now. We're going to talk about strange Pennsylvania town names. So if you make it to the end, you're going to be in for treat on that one.Logan: Oh yeah. Stay tuned.Dan: Okay, so let's get going. All right guys, for this segment we're going to talk about mummies. In particular, mummies of the world, the exhibition. It's a new exhibit at the Carnegie Science Center and from the Science Center, we have Nicole Chynoweth. Nicole, thanks for being here.Nicole: Thank you for having me.Dan: Absolutely. Thanks for being with us here. And can we talk a little bit about your own role within the Science Center here. Can you tell us your position and a little bit what you do?Nicole: Sure. So, I'm the manager of marketing, public relations, and social media with a focus on exhibits and the Rangos Giants Cinema.Dan: Great. What does that entail then? I mean, that I imagine you you are working with a lot of different positions there. Right?Nicole: Yeah, it's a really fun job. I get my hands in everything from new movies that we have coming out at the Rangos, educational films to the exciting new exhibits that we're bringing to the science center, from space topics, planetarium related things, and mummies-Dan: Really cool, it seems like a fun place to work. Right?Paul: Nicole, you've had your hands in the mummies?Nicole: No.Paul: Okay. The promotion of the mummies.Dan: The promotion of the mummies. Paul: I'm sure we'll talk about some of the technical aspects, but that would seem a little gross, but...Nicole: I don't think so. I find the exhibition more fascinating than I do creepy. And I'm not a fan of scary movies or I did not watch the Brendan Fraser mummy movie.Paul: You didn't?Nicole: No interest in that.Paul: I did watch those.Dan: You're missing out on a classic from the 1990s.Paul: Yeah. Well, classic is a little strong-Dan: I think it should have won an Oscar, but that's just me.Paul: Okay, Dan. We'll talk about that another time. So Nicole, when I think of the science center, I think about some of the other things you mentioned. Space, technology, mummies?Nicole: Yes, mummies are, especially this show, the mummies featured in Mummies of the World, the exhibition is, have so much to offer in terms of scientific, anatomical, biological information that we can still learn from today. So what I find really exciting about the mummies of the world is that it focuses on both natural mummification and intentional mummification. So, you might be more familiar with intentional mummification. That's the type that was [crosstalk 00:04:15] practicing in ancient Egypt. Correct.Nicole: And we do have some examples of Egyptian mummification in the show, but this also takes a look at the natural mummification process that can happen when conditions are at such a level moisture wise, temperature-wise that is able to naturally mummify a body, be it animal or human.Dan: Right. Well, it sounds like some pretty amazing things to see...Paul: Yeah, it's fascinating.Dan: What are some examples maybe of the intended mummification that we'd see there? I mean, is there anything from, I guess everybody knows about Egyptian mummies but then, they're also South American. What else might you see?Nicole: So an interesting example of the intentional mummification process that aside from like the Egyptian mummies that are featured in the show, there is Mumab, also known as the Maryland Mummy. In the nineties, two scientists at the University of Maryland decided that they wanted to try their hand at an Egyptian mummification process. A man had donated his body to science, and so they started the process of mummifying him. So, you can see Mumab in the show.Nicole: That's just an interesting way of seeing how we are still learning thousands and thousands of years later about how this process works and the tools that they had to use to complete the process and what the body has to go through for mummification to occur.Dan: That's really cool.Paul: Did it work?Nicole: I've been told that it's still in process, it's not completely... He's not completely mummified yet.Paul: Take some time?Nicole: Yes.Paul: Wow. Something I never knew.Dan: That's pretty awesome. Can you tell us what else is in the exhibit then? I mean, are there any, you say interactive portions to it. What should people and families expect whenever they're inside here. It's not just, as you'd be at a museum taking a look. I mean one of the great things about the science center is it kind of hands-on.Paul: Hands-on. Yeah.Nicole: Yes. So in addition, to the 40 animal and human mummies and 85 rare related artifacts, visitors will also be able to look through several interactives related to different topics within mummification. I think a favorite among children will definitely be the, what does mummy feel like a station where you can touch different types of mummified materials, so there's like frog skin, fur. Mummified fur, different things like that they'll be able to touch these like textile panels that are examples of what those things feel like.Nicole: Another great interactive is there's a large map that shows where different types of mummies have been found all over the world, which I think is really important to look at from the perspective of which, like you said, we are so used to just thinking about Egyptian mummies.Paul: Yes.Nicole: And really there are mummies all over the world, [crosstalk 00:07:15].Paul: So not to be surprised?Nicole: Yeah.Paul: You never know where you might find a mummy!Nicole: Right, right.Dan: Okay. Well, people will hear, we can see Mummies of the World through April 19th that's correct, right?Nicole: Correct. Open through April 19th. It takes about 60 to 90 minutes to get through the exhibition, for parents that are maybe wondering if the exhibition is appropriate for their children. We do have a family guide available at carnegiesciencecenter.org/mummies, that might answer some of the questions parents have before they take their kids to the exhibition.Nicole: But I really believe that it is appropriate for all ages and I think people will take something away from the show, be it a new interest in archeology or anthropology or just being able to connect with the backstories of the mommies that are featured in the show. You get to know them. They're more than just a mummy in front of you. You learn their story, how they lived, the way they lived, where they were from. So, super excited to have it at the science center and to be able to offer this experience to Pittsburghers.Dan: That's great. Anything else happen at the science center lately?Nicole: Yes. So, it's Halloween season.Dan: Yes.Nicole: What better time than to experience a scary movie on Pittsburgh's largest screen?Paul: Very good.Nicole: The Rangos Strengths Cinema teamed up with Scare House, this year actually for Rangos x Scare House. We co-curated some Halloween movies together to offer Pittsburgh a really exciting lineup for the Halloween seasons. So we have coming up the Universal Studios Classic Monsters. We're showing the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Frankenstein and Dracula, on October 11th through the 13th.Nicole: We also have Dawn of the Dead 3D showing October 25th and the 26th. And that's a really exciting screening because they don't often show the 3D version. So if you've seen Dawn the Dead before, I can guarantee you have not seen it like this.Dan: This is the original one?Nicole: Yes. This is the original Dawn of the dead. Yes.Paul: In 3D.Nicole: In 3D.Paul: Have you seen it, Nicole?Nicole: I have not seen it. I'm not a huge fan of the scary movies, but I've been told that if there's one I should experience at the Rangos this year. It's probably this one.Dan: All right? Just how big again is the Rangos?Nicole: So we are a certified giant screen. The screen itself measures 72 by 38 feet.Paul: Wow.Nicole: We also have 45 surround sound speakers. Your average theater has 14.Paul: Dan, if you and I can get that past our spouses and into our basements. I think that'll be good.Dan: I might have to tear down a wall or two in my basement, but I think I can handle it.Paul: You know, it's all about the purpose, Dan.Dan: You know what, we're trying to fix more damage to begin with. So I think I could get this Rangos a screen down here. That'd be perfect.Paul: It'd be very nice.Dan: Nicole, how can people find out more about the Carnegie Science Center, both online and in social media?Nicole: Sure. Visit us at carnegiesciencecenter.org or find us on Facebook. Carnegie Science Center or Twitter and Instagram @Carnegie S-C-I-C-T-R.Dan: Okay. Thanks so much for coming on Nicole. We appreciate it.Nicole: Thank you.Paul: Yes.Dan: All right guys. We were just talking about mummies and now we're going to... mummies, if you'll look back at it, they're famous movie monsters, some of the old ones from the 30s, some of the more recent mummy movies and whatnot.Paul: Brendan Fraser.Dan: Exactly, yeah. I love those horror movies and I love being scared. I love this time of year whenever we get a chance to go out to a haunted house. Me and my wife try to do one at least once a year. She's not wild about them, but I have a great time. Even right now in a couple of days. I believe the scare house is going to be reopening the scare houses. One of the more popular attractions around the area of this third winter.Paul: Award-winning.Dan: Award-winning, correct. Yeah. They had to move from Etna and they're in the Strip District. I think they maybe even changed the name to reflect that, but I think, it's interesting that people love to go to these things and they're so well attended.Dan: You see the lines around the block just to be scared and so I've had a chance to go look at the psychology of fear here, and there's an interesting phenomenon that researchers have found called VANE. It's V-A-N-E, and it stands for Voluntary Arousing Negative Experiences. Logan or Paul, you guys ever felt anything like that? Do you have any voluntary experiences?Paul: Yes. Dan, some people call that work?Dan: No. Yes.Paul: I've absolutely. So, I mean, I'm the old guy in the room. You think back to when I was a teenager, the voluntary arousing negative experience was to take the date you really like to a scary movie.Dan: Okay.Paul: I think we're going to get into this Dan, some of the why this is in... Things that people will voluntarily do you, you might not have expected a certain level of affection from your date, but if you took her to a scary movie, there would be the involuntary reaction when something happened on the screen of-Dan: Them getting closer? There you go. That's clever.Paul: Yeah. Well, and it's all this time at least all the scary movies.Dan: I think, when you look at some of the research here, what they point at, one of the most important parts of that is that it `is voluntary and that people were making a conscious decision to go out and be scared. And a lot of that is about overcoming stress. And you might go in with another person, you're working together to try to get through this shared experience here, fighting the monsters, try not to punch the actors who are just trying to have a good time and scare you.Dan: But they get a chance to get outside of themselves, and as we said, face a fear and there's really a great quote here from a woman named Justine Musk. Her quote says, "Fear is a powerful beast, but we can learn to ride it". I think that's just a very good succinct way to put it. But our good friend Logan here, you were actually a psychology major for a couple of years at Pitt and you know a lot about fear.Logan: Yes. So, as you said, I was a psychology major for a few years. I really enjoy just kind of how humans work. But so basically what it is that you have a part of your brain and it's a little almond-shaped lobe called a medulla. But, so basically what happens is that you're, when you see emotions on people's faces or when you see something that would cause you to emote in a certain way.Logan: So, say you see you're out in the wild and you see a lion and you're like, well that's not good. So that message sends to your medulla, which then sends to your limbic system. And if you guys are aware of the limbic system, it's your fight or flight response.Dan: Yes, okay.Logan: When you experience these negative arousals, that kicks into high gear and that pumps adrenaline through your entire body, your pupils dilate, your bronchitis dilates, just you're in this hyper-aware zone, and that's where adrenaline junkies get it from.Logan: It's a similar thing to where you're experiencing fear where you might be scared, but your adrenaline is pumping so much and it's releasing so many endorphins and dopamine that you end up enjoying it.Dan: Well. Okay, now we know whenever we either go to a haunted house or if we go see the mummies exhibit at the Carnegie Science Center, none of us are going to be scared because we know all the science, and we just know what's going on in our brain.Paul: Well, I mean this is also why people like roller coasters shout out to the steel curtain at Kennywood. Because they know it's safe. Right?Dan: Right.Paul: The experience is scary, but it's safe. When you go and see a movie. Yes. You sure hope so. You see the movie, you know it's going to be an hour and 20 minutes or two hours or whatever and when it's over, you may have been scared during the movie, but you're okay. The same with the rollercoaster, three minutes and then you're back in line, right it again. Right? Because you've enjoyed that safe experience of being scared.Logan: And it's the same concept where it's going back to my earlier example. If you see a lion in the wild or you're going to be scared. But if you go to the zoo, you're going to think it's cute or whether somebody else tickles you, you get a reaction, but you can't tickle yourself because your brain knows it's not a threat.Dan: Well, we do see a lot of alligators on the streets of Pittsburgh these days, so I don't know. You know what I mean. Maybe we'll see a lion the next, but I don't know that's all there is to know about fear or at least a good introduction for it. So, yeah. Logan, thanks for the knowledge there.Logan: Sure thing.Dan: Yeah. Maybe you should have stayed as a psychology major.Paul: He won't be here helping us today.Dan: That's a fair point.Logan: Now he's like "you really should've stayed a psych major"Logan: Centuries before cell phones and social media, human connections are made around fires. As we shared, the stories have shaped our world. Today, stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts and minds and inspire action. At Word Wright, Pittsburgh's largest independent public relations agency. We understand that before you had a brand before you sold any product or service, you had a story.Logan: Word Wright helps clients to uncover their own Capital S story. The reason someone would want to buy work, invest or partner with you through our patented story-crafting process, visit wordpr.com to uncover your capitalist story.Paul: All right guys. It's a fun time of year because the penguins are back in action. We're all hoping that they can get back to the Stanley cup this year. Who better to have on our vice president Jeremy Church here at one of our vice presidents here at WordWrite. Jeremy, you're involved with hockey and can you tell us a little bit about that?Jeremy: Sure. I've been fortunate to be involved with the game for nearly 40 years now as a player and a coach. Grew up starting about eight I guess in Michigan. Then we moved here in 10 continued to play, went away to prep school and played all through prep school Junior A, was fortunate enough again to play in college and then the last 17 years at various levels. I've been able to coach.Paul: That's awesome. Yeah, Who do you coach with?Jeremy: Right now, I'm coaching my younger son. With 11 Hornets, youth hockey organization. Prior to that, I helped with the high school in Mount Lebanon for five years. Coached at Shady Side Academy for a year and again using the word fortunate was able to go back to the Prep school. I played at Culver Military Academy and coached there for six years and it's a pretty storied program.Paul: That's fair and awesome. Well, Pittsburgh's got a long history in hockey going back to the turn of the century here, pretty much and but from a lot of people, the history and hockey didn't start until Mario Lemieux got here in the early eighties and Jeremy have a fun story about Mario Lemieux actually.Jeremy: I do. There've been two big booms locally when it comes to the growth of the sport. And certainly the first one had to have been when Merrill was drafted back in 1984 so we had just moved here from outside of Detroit and moved to the South Hills and we went to South Hills village one day and the mall was still there. At the time it was Kaufman's Department Store, which is no longer there.Paul: Oh yeah, the mall's there now just no Kaufmann's.Jeremy: So we're walking through and there's a little table set up and there are two or three people sitting there, one of them towers over all the others. And as we get closer and closer, there's no line at all. Mind you, it's Mario Lemieux sitting there signing autographs before he'd ever played a game.Jeremy: So, we walked up to the table, got his autograph. He still really couldn't speak English that well. But if you could imagine today the kind of stir it would create if Mario were around talking at to anyone in any environment. It was the exact opposite back then. I still have the autograph today.Paul: What did you get autographed?Jeremy: They had little teeny pamphlets of him in his Junior A Laval and from the Quebec Major Junior League Jersey, and that's all they had to sign. I think it was him. And it might've been Paul Steigerwald because at the time he was head of showing Mario around town and Mario, for those who don't remember when he was 18 actually lived with a host family in Mount Lebanon for the first year that he was here when he was 18.Paul: Yeah. Well, like I said it, whenever he first got here, he lived with Lemieux.Jeremy: Yeah, he returned the favor.Paul: Well, since that day, whenever there was no line at Kauffman's, today there was no more Kauffman's and you would have a gigantic line. But so what can you say about just seeing the growth of hockey? Especially from a youth hockey angle here, you've been front and center with it your entire life?Jeremy: It's pretty remarkable. Doing a little research earlier and in 1975 there were basically two rinks that you could play out of indoor rinks for Youth Hockey: Rostraver Gardens, which is still around and Mount Lebanon Recreation Center, which is still around.Jeremy: By 1990, when I was in high school, there were 10 and now that figure is roughly doubled to around 20 in the region. There are 62 high school teams and there are 28 organizations in the Pittsburgh Amateur Hockey League. And within the Pittsburgh Amateur Hockey League, there are now 5,600 players. And that's for those who are around playing in the eighties or growing up in the eighties and early nineties here, that's almost hard to believe there's, you know that there are 28 organizations, but if you go down through the ranks of 18 and under 16 and under 14, 12, ten eight and under age groups, there's dozens and dozens of teams at various levels all throughout that.Jeremy: So, for last year at the ten-year level, ten-year-old level, there were 80 plus 10 new teams in PAHL, Pittsburgh Amateur Hockey League League. So pretty remarkable.Paul: Right, Yeah. The majority of those kids, they're probably not going to be heading to the NHL, but a lot of kids want to at least, pretend that they're one of their heroes and get involved in the game. And I think one of the problems, maybe not a problem with hockey, but one of the issues surrounding it is there is a perception that there is a bit of a barrier to entry. You've got to have skates, you've got to have pads, you've got to have a good helmet, you've got to have a good stick. There's a lot of, there's a lot to that kit there. Jeremy, there are easier ways for kids to get involved in the game today though, right?Jeremy: Yes. Part of the Testament to the Penguins organization and certainly as Sidney Crosby has been, his emphasis and involvement with youth programs and youth hockey initiatives. And not just in Pittsburgh, but I know as well back when he returns to Canada in the summer and throughout the year, he likes to give back to the community.Jeremy: But a big initiative that started, it's now celebrating it's 10 year anniversary or 11 year anniversary is the little Penguins learn to play hockey, where Sid partnered with Dick's sporting goods to give, what is now I believe more than a thousand sets of free equipment out to kids who want to start playing the sport. So that goes hand in hand with a program that I think runs six weeks, eight weeks, in January, February to get kids introduced to hockey.Jeremy: But to your point in that, the big barrier to entry is the cost of equipment, which can be several hundred dollars even for kids that are five, six, seven years old. So that's certainly got a lot of kids involved in the game and has led to those massive increases in participation that I cited before.Paul: All right, that's awesome, Jeremy. Well, thanks so much for coming in and talking to us about hockey. We're hoping for another good season from the Penguins. Maybe a longer playoff run than last year. We got a bit of a break last year. I think they earned it after winning a couple of cups. But yeah, thanks again and yeah, we'll talk to you soon.Jeremy: No problem. Thanks to you.Dan: Right. This next segment. We're going to learn a little more about our co-host Logan Armstrong. Logan is from Eighty Four, PA.Logan: That I am.Dan: Now, we got talking about this and it got us, we started, you know, going down a rabbit hole and we got discussing why 84 was actually named 84? At first, I thought it was named after the construction company the-Logan: 84 Lumber.Dan: Yeah, 84 Lumber, and it turns out I was wrong. That 84 is named after 84 PA, and there's a lot of history and a lot of different theories about how the town was named. Logan, do you want to go through some of them maybe?Logan: Yeah, sure. So there are a couple theories. 84 is quite the town. There's not much in it other than 84 Lumber, but you know, it's nice. There are a lot of theories on how it was named, the most popular of which is that it commemorated Grover Cleveland's 1884 election victory. Some other theories were that it's on mile 84 of the railway mail service. My favorite though is that it's located at 80 degrees and four minutes West longitude. This seems like the most probable to me.Dan: My favorite actually is apparently in 1869 general David "Crazy Legs" Hamilton had an outfit of 84 soldiers with them and held off an attack of Outlaws. Now that just sounds fantastic. Yeah.Logan: That sounds quite heroic. If that is the case. I am proud to be from 84 PA.Dan: Maybe you're a descendant of general David "Crazy Legs" Hamilton here. Is that possible?Logan: Yeah. I believe I'm Logan "Crazy Toes" Armstrong.Dan: Okay, keep your shoes on man! We don't want to see anything. Well, after this, after we talked about 84 we also started taking a look at some other weird names for towns in Pennsylvania here and if you go online, you can find quite a few of them. Logan, what were some of the interesting ones you like you?Logan: There are quite a few to choose from. A couple of my favorites were, while the all known intercourse, PA, which is actually the most stolen sign in Pennsylvania, where it says "Welcome to Intercourse" for good reason.Dan: Obvious reasons.Logan: Right. Going along that same route, a rough and ready PA was, they named it after a California Gold Rush town, so I guess they're rough and ready to get some gold out there. Can't blame them for that.Dan: I imagine that sign is also been stolen many times.Logan: Right. Okay. Then, well, let's play a game here. I'm going to give you some Pennsylvania town names and you're going to tell me how you think that those names came to be. How's that sound?Dan: Bring them on. I'm a repository of knowledge.Logan: Okay, great. Peach Bottom.Dan: Peach Bottom. This is simple. This is extremely simple. Everybody in the town of Peach Bottom is very short, and they're, but they're also Peach farmers, so they can only see the bottom of the peaches that come from the trees. It's kind of a shame because they've never seen the peach tops.Logan: That is a shame. Those peach tops are so beautiful.Dan: We have an actual reason why it's called Peach Bottom?Logan: In fact, Dan, you weren't too far off, Peach Bottom. Got its name in 1815 from a peach orchard owned by a settler named John Kirk.Dan: John Kirk was very short, as we all know.Logan: Right? Yes. Okay. Shickshinny, Pennsylvania. What do you think of that?Dan: Schickshinny. Ah, got it. Okay. Shickshinny is named after a famous dance created by the person who created Schick shaving blades. Fun fact, a few people realize that he had a dance. Whenever he would cut his face on his old rusty blades, he would do a little jig-Logan: A little jig!Dan: In a big thing because it can... to get the pain away, and so he decided I've got to create a better, more comfortable blade and so he created the Schick shaving blade.Logan: Well, I foresee-Dan: Everybody knows this.Logan: I've foreseen the future...We had the Whip, we had the Nae Nae. Next, we're going to have the Shickshinny going on in all the clubs in Pittsburgh.Dan: I think this one is actually one of those Indian words that have made a lot of Pennsylvania names here.Logan: Yeah. Yeah. It looks like an Indian word that either means the land of mountains or land of the fine stream.Dan: Or land of the cutting your face on your favorite razor.Logan: Yeah, I think that's the most common translation. Yeah.Dan: Sure.Logan: We are well beyond 100 words today. Thank you for listening to the P100 podcast. This has been Dan Stefano, Logan Armstrong, and Paul Furiga. If you haven't yet, please subscribe at P100podcast.com or wherever you listen to podcasts, and follow us on Twitter @Pittsburgh100_, for all the latest news updates and more, from the Pittsburgh 100.

Welcome to another episode of the P100 Podcast. Today we cover our own Port Authority. Robin Rectenwald shares with us some local getaways inside tips. Director, Dawn Keezer from the Pittsburgh Film Office talks about on location in Pittsburgh. This episode winds up with Pittsburgh Polyphony spotlight - Flower Crown.This Episode is sponsored by WordWriteCenturies before cell phones and social media, human connections were made around fires as we shared the stories that shaped our world. Today, stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts and minds and inspire action. At WordWrite, Pittsburgh's largest independent public relations agency, we understand that before you had a brand, before you sold any product or service, you had a story.WordWrite helps clients to uncover their own Capital S Story. The reason someone would want to buy, work, invest or partner with you through our patented story-crafting process. Visit wordwritepr.com to uncover your Capital S Story.Here is the full transcript from this episode:Logan: You're listening to the P100 Podcast, the biweekly companion piece to the Pittsburgh 100, bringing you Pittsburgh news, culture, and more. Because sometimes 100 words just aren't enough for a great story.Dan: All right. Welcome back to another episode of The P100 Podcast. I'm Dan Stefano. I'm here with Logan Armstrong.Logan: Good to see you again, Dan.Dan: And Paul Furiga, who'll be joining us just momentarily.Dan: Today's episode, we've got four segments for you. First, we're going to be discussing public transportation in both Pittsburgh and other American cities. We're going to talk with Dawn Keezer of the Pittsburgh Film Office, which will be a lot of fun. It was a really good chat with her. We're going to discuss quick getaways you can take outside of Pittsburgh. Sometimes you got to get away, and we'll be talking with Robin Rectenwald of WordWrite for that one, and then we'll finish it up with talking about a good local Pittsburgh band for our Pittsburgh polyphony series. Excited to hear that, so let's get to it.PORT AUTHORITYPaul: All right guys. Let's talk planes, trains, and autonomous automobiles. A little shout out there to the old John Candy movie.Dan: That's a classic movie.Paul: It is a classic movie.Dan: Steve Martin too, right?Paul: Steve Martin, that's right. Yes indeed.Logan:Much before my time.Paul:Oh, you got to see that movie.Dan: Logan, you weren't even alive.Paul: You weren't alive, but you can stream it.Dan: Is it John Hughes?Paul: Yes. I think it's a John Hughes film actually, one of the-Dan: Okay. See, I know my movie stuff.Paul: ... few he did in that era when it wasn't all about teen angst. But speaking of teen angst and public transportation, it seems like a perennial topic in the news in Pittsburgh, is how to get from point A to point B. And I just don't mean the topography. For instance, if you drew my street on a map, it would look like a lasso, you know the old cowboy thing?Dan: Sure.Paul: You can get onto Courtney Place, the street I live on, and turn left on Courtney Place and go around a circle and turn left, and you're still on Courtney Place. That's another issue. What we're talking about today is, maybe because of things like that, how difficult it is to get from point A to point B. And the importance of public transportation.Paul: And so, recently Dan, Logan, we were looking at the news about the Port Authority starting or considering some 24-hour transit routes. And Logan, I know you're an Oakland denizen, some of those routes would head out that way, that we'd start with you. Thoughts?Logan: Yeah, I'd be a big fan of that. I know that they're only considering really the heavier routes, which obviously make sense. You don't want to have empty buses going all night, but I think that would be really helpful.Logan: I know there have been a few times where, whether I'm in Oakland or elsewhere past midnight or so, I mean, it gets pretty scarce trying to get to point A to point B, and there are Uber and Lyft, but Pitt students have Pitt IDs and they get free Port Authority rides, and so, I mean, you're going to expect college students to be out pretty late, so I think they should be able to take advantage of that. So I think it's a great idea.Dan: Well, it's not only for the college students too. I believe one of the aims behind the Port Authority trying this is to help people who might work late shift. Those late shift workers who, maybe they're not done until 2:00 or 3:00, and they're working at least on some areas near these routes and it really helps them, and I think they're important to have for modern city living.Paul: You know, one of the challenges that we've had in the last several years is funding for public transportation. I think that still is a huge issue. Now we have competition for public transportation.Paul: Logan, you mentioned ride sharing, Lyft or Uber. And of course Pittsburgh is a hotbed for autonomous vehicle development, and it made a bit of news a few weeks ago when the CEO of one of the companies here in Pittsburgh that are testing autonomous vehicles, Argo AI, wrote a medium blog post in which he said that that company will never build autonomous vehicles for personal use.Paul: And I think a lot of people were figuring that, again, remember my street, it goes in a circle, that Uber and all of them were here because they were ... If you can figure out how to drive in Pittsburgh in an autonomous vehicle, you could drive anywhere in an autonomous vehicle.Paul: I don't know. Dan, what do you think? Autonomous vehicles in your garage? Yes? No?Dan: I don't know. Maybe a personal vehicle…that'd be a difficult buy-in. I think it's one of those things where just in my life I've always had a car that I drive myself. I mean, obviously if, say in the future there are babies that are born that only know autonomous vehicles and might be used to it for them.Dan: But I can say that I have been in an autonomous car. And I've had the AI driving me around. I took an Uber once that was an AI car, and obviously there were two people in the front seats, one behind the wheel who just had, was a little bit hands-off, and then another with the computer taking in all the data. It was a really cool experience.Dan: But one part that, at one moment we were driving through, I believe it was Bloomfield or somewhere along Baum Boulevard, and we came to one of those classic Pittsburgh 19-streets-meet-at-once intersections. And there was somebody coming in the opposing lane who had made a sharp cut in front of us. And the car made a really sudden stop. And so, I was talking with the operators about it and they said one of the problems that, problems or issues or minor things is, these AI, they still have to take into account other people's decisions. And that's really where I think that that's where the work has got to be done yet, in autonomous vehicles here.Dan: And so, it's going to be tough if not every car out there is going to be driven by another robot, you know?Paul: Well, and you know, Dan, we were talking about this earlier, and if you think about it, if every new vehicle after some date and time were autonomous, you would still have, what did you say? 200 million?Dan: I couldn't tell you how many-Paul: Millions.Dan: ... cars are out there, but probably hundreds of millions of cars.Paul: Non-autonomous vehicles.Dan: Right. Precisely. So it's going to take a while before this stuff is at its scale and it's the only thing available.Logan: Yeah. You can map streets all you want, but you can't really map human decision making.Paul: Well, one thing we know for sure, the topic of getting from A to B here in Pittsburgh is not going to go away anytime soon. So on some distant future podcast, look for us to update our musings on getting from here to there.Dan: You're going to keep complaining about that lasso, aren't you?Paul: I am.GETAWAYSDan: All right. For this next segment, we have Robin Rectenwald. And she's an account supervisor here at WordWrite.Dan: Robin, thanks for being here.Robin: Thanks for having me.Dan: Absolutely. We wanted to bring you in because a couple of stories recently that we had in the 100 discussed some short getaways that you can take from Pittsburgh here. And there were both some really interesting luxury type locations, and Robin, one of those places that you went to was Bedford Springs Resort in Bedford, PA. And you talked about just being your first solo trip, but also just seemed like a really cool, unique place that was a quick little drive away.Robin: Yeah. My best friend had actually told me about the Omni Bedford Springs Resort. She needed some time away, she was going through a really stressful time in her life. And so, years later I finally was able to take the trip for myself. It was on my to-do list for a while.Dan: Sure. Well, it seems like it's pretty cool to take one of these trips, and it's really just in your backyard, too. And I think maybe a lot of people don't quite realize all of these ... You don't have to go all the way to the coast. You don't have to go to California or something, Florida, to find a really great vacation. And did you find that?Robin: Yeah, that's what I loved about this trip. I actually am someone who doesn't like to drive very far distances by myself. I'm a little bit of a drowsy driver.Dan: That's really safe, to be on a Pennsylvania turnpike as a drowsy driver!Robin: Yeah. But this one was quick and easy. It was literally on the dot two hours. So yeah, just getting there was super easy. I felt comfortable going by myself.Dan: Right. And was it as relaxing as it claimed to be?Robin: It was beautiful. I really did feel like I was in paradise. The hotel itself is beautiful, it's historic, so you go in, it's these big staircases, these old elevators, this creaky floors. It was just taking a step back into time into, like the 18 hundreds.Dan: It's kind of like The Shining hotel before it became The Shining hotel. Right?Robin: Much less creepy.Dan: Right, yeah. No Jack Nicholson bursting through your door. That's good to know.Dan: Logan, you recently wrote just recently in the 100 here about some pretty cool little cabins through a company called Getaway.Logan: Yeah, quite a fitting name. I had seen one of their ads on some social media, and-Dan: Social media has ads?Logan: I know, right? It's incredible.Dan: Wow.Logan: But so, they're these cabins, they're just 45 minutes from Pittsburgh. They're in Lisbon Creek, Ohio, tucked right next to a state park out there. And yeah, I mean, they're cabins across these 59 acres of land, and I'm definitely trying to make it out there. I haven't yet, but they look beautiful and they're nice and away from wifi so you can just let yourself go. But so, I had seen one of their ads on social media and I've now been barraged with Getaway ads for the past two weeks on every single social media platform.Logan: But yeah, it's 45 minutes, something just quick and easy, you can getaway. It doesn't take too much time off work if any at all. Just go out there for the weekend and just relax.Dan: Right? Now those cabins are actually next to Beaver Creek State Park. So very close. And I edited that story, so I have a lot of ads from Getaway right now, too. It's great.Dan: I think one thing that is cool to remember here is that we can take these small trips, and it's such a great time of year to get away and be into the country. Do you guys like going out, maybe doing some hiking, going to see some fall leaves? Robin?Robin: Yeah, I'm actually going on a train ride with my mom, the end of September. It's in Elks, West Virginia, and they have these four-hour train rides. So yeah, another quick getaway.Dan: Right? When I was a kid, I took a, it was all the way up in North Central PA. We took a trip through the --Robin: Oh, Kinzua Bridge?Dan: Yeah. Which, I don't think that exists anymore. I'm pretty sure it got blown down-Robin: No, it's still there. I was just there in May.Dan: Oh. I could have sworn it got blown down in a storm. I guess I'm completely wrong.Robin: It's partially did, so you can actually go there and see a partial bridge, and you can hike underneath it. It's pretty cool.Dan: Oh wow. That's really cool. Yeah, so I remember it being very high, so that's pretty cool.Logan: Yeah. I also love going out to Ohiopyle, or Ohiopyle depending on who you ask. But that's great. It's probably a two, two and a half hours. You can go out there and see Fallingwater while you're out there. Yeah. Lots of hiking trails.Robin: Kentuck Knob.Logan: What's that?Robin: Kentuck Knob is another Frank Lloyd Wright's house right nearby Fallingwater.Logan: Oh really?Robin: Yeah.Logan: See, I did not know that. I’ve got to put that on the list.Dan: Right. Well, I think the important thing to take away from this is, everybody, we've got some really great fall weather coming up, some really awesome leaves to see and foliage, and everybody should definitely take advantage of these locations that are just a couple hours away.Logan: Centuries before cell phones and social media, human connections were made around fires as we shared the stories that shaped our world. Today, stories are still the most powerful way to move hearts and minds and inspire action. At WordWrite, Pittsburgh's largest independent public relations agency, we understand that before you had a brand, before you sold any product or service, you had a story.Logan: WordWrite helps clients to uncover their own Capital S Story. The reason someone would want to buy, work, invest or partner with you through our patented story-crafting process. Visit wordwritepr.com to uncover your Capital S Story.PITTSBURGH IN FILMPaul: Well, welcome back everybody. I'm Paul Furiga, I'm publisher of the Pittsburgh 100 and President and Chief Storyteller of WordWrite. And we are pleased today to have with us Dawn Keezer, who on September 24th will celebrate 25 years of running the Pittsburgh Film Office.Paul: Logan, that's just hard to believe, isn't it?Logan: Yeah, no, it's awesome. I'm glad that we have such a great organization here in Pittsburgh. It does wonders for the city.Paul: Dawn, welcome.Dawn: Thank you.Paul: Tell us a little bit about the film office and what you folks do.Dawn: Well, the Pittsburgh Film Office is an economic development agency that focuses on marketing Southwestern Pennsylvania to the film industry. And that includes everything from feature films, television shows that you see on TV, commercials, documentaries, corporate videos. Anything, I used to say, anything rolling any kind of film. Now it's anybody using their iPhone that's doing anything on a professional level. We're helping them make that happen here in Southwestern PA. We represent all 10 counties in the region. Some people don't realize how big a reach the film office has.Logan: Tell us a little bit about your day-to-day role in the film office and what you're doing on a day-to-day basis.Dawn: Well, we have a huge staff at the film office. There's three of us that work there full time and that includes me. We all do a little bit of everything.Dawn: I've been there a really long time, so I'm the go-to both for our relationships with the government officials who really help us make everything happen when we're closing streets and closing bridges and need help getting into places like SCI Pittsburgh, but essentially the film office is a one-stop shop for the film and entertainment industry.Dawn: Whether they need permits to close streets, whether they're looking for an office supply company to give them their copier machines, for lumber for to build their sets, to find local crew. Anything that's going to involve their project moving forward, they call the film office and we're the ones that help them make that happen.Paul: When Logan and I were talking about this segment, Dawn, we were talking about the history. One of the cool things that people always talk about with Pittsburgh is that so much happens here with film and with TV, but that didn't happen by accident. Tell us how the film office got started and why.Dawn: Well, the film office got started, as I was told, I'm the second director, Robert Curran was who actually was here when they started the film office under the Greater Pittsburgh Office Of Promotion. It was all being operated, I'm showing you guys, because I like to use my hands, but it was in the bottom drawer of a person working in Mayor Sophie Masloff's office at the time. He'd pull out a drawer, go, "Okay, what do we do with this one?"Dawn: And when Silence of the Lambs decided to film in Pittsburgh, they went, "Wow, we've really got to step this up."Dawn: So the Greater Pittsburgh Office Of Promotion created the Pittsburgh Film Office. Russ Streiner, who's our current board chair, actually founded the film office with a few others, and they really started professionalizing the whole approach. By the time I got here it was an established film office, but it was really about making sure the community is protected and the clients, the film companies, are getting what they want done and accomplished.Dawn: Pittsburgh looks great, but everyone feels good about it at the end of the day.Paul: I think, and Logan, chime in here, but most people in Pittsburgh, and I'm making a generalization here, but I think they're proud to see Pittsburgh in TV and film, but we don't really have an understanding as Pittsburghers of how this all really works.Paul: An economic impact of 650 million, you said?Dawn: Well, that's how much wanted to be spent here. And it is.Paul: Wanted it to be spent.Dawn: They wanted to spend here. We're going to be lucky to retain about 200 million of it.Paul: Oh my goodness.Dawn: And this is money spent throughout the entire economy. The big spend, of course, is on our local crew, which we have some of the most experienced, amazing craftsmen that work in this, craftsmen and women, who work in this industry throughout the region.Dawn: Our crew is so good people travel them. They take them elsewhere because if they're not working at home, they leave. And in the old days they were lucky to stay. I say the old days prior to the film tax credits, they were lucky to be here for one film a year, and then they would go work in different states, in different places. They've all been able to stay home now.Paul: Well, let's talk about that for a second, because, in Pennsylvania anyway, it seems like certain legislators get upset about the size of the credit. But from what I've seen, our credit's not really that big compared to other states.Dawn: Our credit is woefully underfunded and oversubscribed. We needed $127 million dollars to retain all the work that Southwestern Pennsylvania had for this year alone. And we have to share the film tax credit with our friends over in Philly. We're one of the only states that have two production centers, meaning two places where people film.Dawn: I equate the tax credit to a 25% off coupon you get at your local store. This is money coming in. We're giving them 25 cents on every dollar they spend after they've spent 60% of their budget in the commonwealth. And they have to prove this. They fill out forms, they're audited. We know where every dime is spent on every single thing they do well before they ever get their tax credit certificate.Dawn: We just keep having the conversations and hopefully, we'll get to the point where they go, "Oh, we really do need to increase the film tax credit."Dawn: Georgia has a 30% uncapped tax credit. I told you, we had topped 1.5 billion this last year, and that's since 1990. Georgia had six billion dollars’ worth of film work last year.Paul: Wow. Now that is just amazing.Dawn: And they're looking for other places to go. If you look at the level of content that's being created right now, with the growth in all the streaming channels and everything else, they're all looking for homes. It's Netflix, it's Disney, it's Amazon. All our clients, they've all been here, they're all coming back. They're all, it just ... We have an opportunity here to really grow it, and I'm really hoping we get to capitalize on it this year.Logan: Like you said, everything you're saying makes sense. I would think that just pounding the nail and then hopefully it gets through some people's heads and realize that there are two production centers here and that that would bring so much money into our economy that otherwise goes unspent.Logan: Through your 25 years though, it sounds like people have wanted to less have Pittsburgh as a double, and actually want their film set in Pittsburgh. Would you say that's correct?Dawn: It's really interesting. It's a great question because we've really seen a growth in the number of shows that set it here. And primarily we're getting more people to write Pittsburgh into the scripts. There's more work being created. It saves them money when they set it in Pittsburgh because then they don't have to worry about, "Oh, there went a police car that's got the wrong logo on it, there goes -Paul: Re-badging, resigning things, yes.Dawn: ... everything."Dawn: We've seen a huge increase in that, which has been fun and it makes life a lot easier for everybody. And it gives us some great marketing.Dawn: Sometimes not so much. Right? Sometimes it's not a storyline that Pittsburgh would want to promote, but again, it's a movie. We're not portraying real life here, or a TV show, whatever it happens to be.Paul: That's great. So, as Pittsburghers, what can we do to help the film industry here thrive and grow?Dawn: Well, what we're really lucky about, I always tell people there are three main reasons anyone films here. It's the tax credits, it's our crew, it's the diversity of locations.Dawn: The fourth unofficial one is the film friendliness of Pittsburgh. We welcome these projects with open arms. We still are excited about it. Yeah, sometimes they block your driveway. Sometimes they're in the way, and we deal with all this usually minor inconveniences that happen throughout the region, but for the most part, we're very supportive. So we'd love for that to continue when people really get to know how friendly our region is.Dawn: Our website is pghfilm.org. We're on all of the social media channels, Facebook, Twitter, everywhere else you're supposed to be these days. It's important that you go check in on what's happening, and if you want to be an extra, we put that information up on our website. We really try to keep things up to date and current as possible.Dawn: I mentioned we have three full-time employees. I have a full staff of interns, they're amazing, from all the local major universities in the region, and they're charged with getting all that stuff updated, so they've been doing a great job. But it's really just checking in and staying supportive.Dawn: And for the legislators that are listening, are you people out there who have friends that are legislators? It's important to remind them that the film tax credit affects the entire region. Not just the people who see the direct impact, but the entire region. We're all benefiting from this economic development generator. And the goal with the tax credits was to not only have an incentive but to build an industry sector. We've done that. Now we need to start building infrastructure and getting purpose-built sound stages and getting some things moving.Dawn: Just supporting the film industry as a whole, as a real viable business in the region, it's really the key.Logan: Great. Well, thank you so much for being here, Dawn. We really appreciate you being here and giving your info and knowledge and expertise on this. This has definitely given me an expanded view of what the Pittsburgh Film Office does. And so, yeah, just thanks for being here.Logan: This is Logan Armstrong and Paul Furiga with the P100 Podcast, and thanks again.Dawn: Thank you.FLOWER CROWN MUSICLogan: Okay, Dan, coming into our next segment, I want to take a couple of minutes to spotlight a local band, Flower Crown, who is on the Crafted Sounds record label, who is a local record label which is run by my friend, Connor Murray. They're doing a lot of great things. But Flower Crown is, I would call them dream-pop, very hazy, very ambient, chill.Logan: My first introduction to them was when I heard their song Bender Szn, it landed on Spotify's Fresh Finds Six Strings playlist, which is a pretty prominent playlist in the platform. It got them a lot of good exposure. As an artist, you're always looking to get on playlists like those.Logan: But yeah, I know you had a little chance to listen to them. What did you think?Dan: Yeah, I think that dream-pop is maybe a good way to describe them. I hadn't heard that term for a genre until you brought it up to me. Until you introduced me to this band here, but I'd agree with it. They'd be nice to just have, put them on for a good mix, a good playlist for a long drive or something like that. And just a nice, kind of soothing, but they do a pretty nice job with their instrumentation. They sound good. So yeah. Excited to hear some more.Logan: Yeah. Yeah. It's a five-member band. And what I like about Flower Crown is that while the music is, like you said, it's great for a long road trip. It's very just, you can kind of get into it. They create their own atmosphere. I haven't met them personally, but from what I've seen on social media and in the public, they're pretty likable guys.Logan: Their profile picture on Facebook has one of them in a big hot dog suit. One of their single covers has them taking off, the guy's in an alien suit, they're taking off his alien head, almost like a Scooby-Doo character. It's nice to be able to see bands that you're able to relate with and are still making music on that scale.Dan: That's awesome. What are we going to hear from them coming up?Logan: Yeah. As I mentioned earlier, I think a great introduction to them is Bender Szn, off their latest project called Sundries, which came out in May. It's a great little single to head out into your day. Very chill. Great for a day like this in October. So yeah, I hope you enjoy.

Would you rather a soggy or a dry bottom? What about popping a pancake in there? Handshakes, Giant sausage rolls. Spray painted cakes! Who's the man? Dan? All this and MORE on Pastry Week! Series 9 Episode 6 of The Great British Bake Off / Great British Baking Show! With Special Guest Ruby Carr! @RubyiCarr Baking Bad: The Bake Off Podcast is part of The Jerk Store. Follow us on: Facebook: http://facebook.com/thejerkstorecomedy Instagram: http://instagram.com/thejerksto.re Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheJerkSto_re

Perhaps It's You is covering a very special mystery this week: Bigfoot! And the ladies are tackling some important Sasquatch-related questions, such as: what is the plural of "Bigfoot"? What would a Bigfoot band be called? Are we really just being pranked by a guy named Dan? All that plus four more mysteries in this week's episode! Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @PerhapsItsYou, or email us at perhapsitsyoupodcast@gmail.com. You can support the show at https://www.patreon.com/perhaptsitsyou

Tracy: Hi, everyone. Welcome to our podcast today. We've got our special guest...Dan Elsworth: This is Dan Elsworth.Ross Thorburn: Hi, everyone. Dan, very awesome to have you here.Dan: It's good to be here.Ross: Cool. For any of you that know Dan, he's a, I was going to sa…Tracy: Hi, everyone. Welcome to our podcast today. We've got our special guest...Dan Elsworth: This is Dan Elsworth.Ross Thorburn: Hi, everyone. Dan, very awesome to have you here.Dan: It's good to be here.Ross: Cool. For any of you that know Dan, he's a, I was going to say, jack of all trades.[laughter][crosstalk]Dan: It's as good as any explanation...Ross: One of his specific trades is testing.Dan: I work in English language testing or assessment. I was an English teacher before. I've been an IELTS examiner. I've designed courses and things like that. At the moment, I'm running a large English language center. Not as large as some of the really large ones.Ross: [laughs]Dan: Actually, it's probably quite small in comparison to others. We work in about 80 countries at the moment.Ross: Wow. 80 not 18?Dan: 80. We actually did a test in North Korea.Tracy: Wow!Ross: Wow! That's so cool.Dan: Yeah. When I started working there, I got a parcel at my desk one day that just said Dan Elsworth and postage stamps said North Korea. That was quite exciting for a minute. Another thing that we did was when Aung San Suu Kyi came to power in Burma or half came to power, all of her ministers took one of our tests on the day they went to democracy.It's the two things that I can say is very interesting about my work. I've used them all up right at the beginning.[laughter]Ross: [inaudible 1:38] interesting podcast. If you could turn off...[crosstalk][laughter]Ross: Before we get into it, can I ask you, what's the difference between testing and assessment? Because I use those terms interchangeably.Dan: To be honest, it depends who you ask in the industry. I think generally, the way it's used colloquially is that testing is a formalized process in that it tends to fit into a certain amount of set time. It tends to be like a specific measurement instrument.An assessment is a broadened category. It includes testing but it could include formative assessment or it could include some form of observation. The problem with all of these types of definitions is that when you really get down into the detail, the lines are pretty blurry anyway. I would just say use them interchangeably unless you're particularly worried about the kind of semantics to that, I guess.Ross: With Dan today, we're going to concentrate on testing and as usual, we have three questions. The first question is, what are some different kinds of tests?Tracy: Number two, how do you write a test?Dan: And number three, what does that mean for teachers?What is Testing? What Types of Language Test Are There?Ross: You mentioned already, Dan, what's the difference between assessment and testing. Do you want to tell us a bit more about what is testing? When does it happen and what sort of tests?Dan: There are few different types of tests. The ones that teachers normally come across can be divided into a few categories. Again, you get blurred lines between those categories.What they'll often come across is an achievement test. An achievement test is at the end of a course and one of the things that identifies an achievement test is that it's a set curriculum, it normally covers a very thin slice of the syllabus and it's always specifically around something that you've already done.Teachers probably do that quite a lot. Problem with achievement tests is that there's not a lot of investment in them. Unfortunately, a lot of course materials that you get out there generically on the market at the moment, you buy a set of course books that are all beautifully designed with nice pictures.Then you get this kind of flimsy paper booklet, or sometimes, set of PDFs and those are your achievement tests. They're not particularly accurate measurement instruments because they're not really used to make any important decisions.Ross: Why bother doing them, then? Just to assure the parents that it wasn't a waste of money taking the...?Dan: That's often a good reason as any.[laughter]Dan: It's a business. I mean, with any assessment, when you're asking what the point is, what you're doing is your asking what the decision is that's being made about that candidate, about that student. In some language schools, there is no decision being made. All you're doing is giving them some feedback on how they've done so that they can take that away and think about it.In other places, that decision is a bit more important and so it means it detects what course they get into in future. When I was at a Beijing school the other day, they were using our tests and it decided whether the kids are streamed into a course that takes three years or a course that takes four years.Ross: Wow. That's a big decision.Dan: It's a big decision. Generally, the more important the decision, the more investment is made in the test, the more accurate it is. Achievement test is normally quite low investment.Ross: Can you give us an example there of a test that's the opposite and it's high investment?Dan: High investment test would be a proficiency test like IELTS or TOEFL. Those proficiency tests they tend to cover a huge range. If you're looking CFR, they'll go all the way from A1 to C1 or C2.Ross: Everything, basically?Dan: Everything. The problem with that is you have to sample from each of those areas. You can ask a few A1 questions, a few A2 questions. You have to be very careful and do lots of analysis on the questions. In testing they are often called items. I occasionally call them an item by mistake.Ross: [laughs]Dan: That's why. You have to do lots of analysis on those. You have to spend a lot of time researching it because the decisions are made on the back of a proficiency test, particularly ones used for immigration or university entry, are really important.You have a huge impact on people's lives which is why governments, universities and other people use them will want to know that they've been carefully thought through. We've talked about achievement tests, proficiency tests. There's a couple of others in there as well. You might have a diagnostic test.Ross: This is when you're about to start a course, is it, to put the right level?Dan: Yeah.Ross: Then the sales people just put you in a high level...[crosstalk]Dan: I would call that a placement test.Ross: Ah. OK.Dan: I get asked about placement Tests quite often. Placement tests are very commercial objects in that they always want them to be about 10 to 15 minutes long. The decision isn't very important because it's useless...[crosstalk]Ross: [laughs] The sales person puts the student wherever they want to.Dan: Exactly.[laughter]Dan: All they get, even if the language school is being fairly legitimate, they'll often have a process if a student is obviously in the wrong class, you move them and they've lost a couple of weeks, maybe. That is what you call a placement test.The diagnostic test is a bit more, like...Ross: Oh, can I guess this one? Is this when you find out what sections of your skills that you're good in or bad in...?[crosstalk]Dan: Exactly.Ross: ...strong in speaking, bad at listening, strong in writing.Dan: Exactly.Tracy: It reminds me, like the teacher doing from learner needs analysis, like learner profile for teaching complications. They have interview different number of students and then really find out where they are, then try to plan the lessons and make it very personalized for this person. That's really interesting.Dan: We were talking earlier about the difference between testing and assessment. Again, I think the colloquial definition is a bit more important than the scientific one.I would call that a type of assessment. It might include a test. You might have a test result in there. You might use a placement test under diagnostic test. You might use a couple of measurement tools but you're also using observation, you're using some of the student's coursework, you're using some formative assessment, you're seeing how they interact in class.Building a learner profile is a type of assessment. You're not making a value judgment, you're not saying...Well, maybe you are.Ross: [laughs]Dan: With all the teachers maybe you are...But essentially, you're trying to put together a picture of that student so that you can make decisions about how you interact with them.Ross: Or what to teach them, I guess?[crosstalk]Dan: Who they should work with, or what kinds of activities they're comfortable with. That way, I'm not going to learning styles or anything.[laughter]How Are Language Tests Written?Ross: Nice Next thing Dan, do you want to tell us a bit about how tests are written and who writes them?Dan: It's an interesting area because it's a particular type of person and the job is called an item writer. Remember earlier I said that most assessment people call the question an item for reasons best known for themselves.[laughter]Dan: An item writer will write an individual item. They have a very specific set of specifications. They'll put a stimulus.If it's a reading test, it's a reading passage. They'll normally not write that themselves. They'll normally find that online or it will be a listening audio, video or a picture and then you'll have a few other things in that item. You'll have a stem which is like the beginning of your question or prompt, and then you'll have some ways of responding.Now, there's two types of response. We're just going through lots of definitions.[laughter]Dan: But it is important. You have selected response, which is where you're selecting multiple choice, reordering exercise, or constructed response, which is when you're writing an answer or report speaking. They write them, then they normally go through lots of quality assurance and then they try it out around the world.Let's do it, say, I'm writing a grammar test. I'll try it out in lots of different countries. I'll give some trial candidates a test. In that test, there'll be some items where I know how good they are. What an item does is that it divides a group of people in two, people who can do it and people who can't, normally.Sometimes you have more sophisticated ones. You have some that you know how they performed and you don't. You use the ones that you know how they performed to decide roughly what level someone is and you use the other ones and you work out how they...[crosstalk]Ross: ...is it? Does this do what I thought it did?Dan: Yeah. Sometimes they'll behave really weirdly. Sometimes they'll do the opposite of what you think they're going to do. Let's say, if it's a multiple‑choice question, the right answer is normally called a key and the other ones are normally called a distractor.Sometimes, the distractor will be too attractive. It would just seem so right for a low‑level candidate because it's something that they've been taught about in school but maybe slightly in the wrong way, and that won't be a very good item because it will draw too many people to that [inaudible 10:06] . It's quite an art to get it the right level of attractiveness.Sometimes, it will work very well for candidates who are around B1 or B2 but for some reason, low‑level candidates will be getting it more right if you...[crosstalk]Ross: Oh, really?Tracy: I see.Ross: ...you start off getting it right and you get it wrong then you get it right.Dan: You'll find that even the best written questions sometimes have these weird behaviors around high or low‑levels within certain areas. Actually, you end up throwing away a lot of them.Ross: For me, I remember my first year as a teacher, I taught this group of primary school kids and at the end of the term, I had to make my own speaking test for them. [laughs] I obviously didn't know what I was doing at all. One of the things I taught them was adjectives for what people look like.One of the question I put in there was, "What does your best friend look like?" [laughs] I remember one the girls who was actually one of the better students in the class looked to me with a puzzled look and paused for a second and went, "My best friend looks like a bird."[laughter]Ross: They had obviously never learned that by way asking questions. I wanted to ask you, for teachers, if you're ever in that position as a teacher and you have to write a basic test for one of those reasons, what are some simple rules that teachers might follow?Dan: Actually, the thing that is most approachable to teachers quite short but regular quizzes and assessments. Something that you're doing fairly regularly, it's fairly low stakes and you're doing in every class, that's going to give you more information. It's also going to mean that you can learn better.You write a pop quiz that's got 10 questions and you've got, "What does your best friend look like?" and you get some really weird answers, but you start to think about how people are responding and that's a really interesting exercise.How Does Testing Affect Teaching and Learning?Ross: Dan, final thing to talk about with you with testing today is how do tests affect what teachers end up doing in the classroom?Dan: That's a really important question. It's an important question for the assessment community and it's called wash back, sometimes impact or a few other words. It means when you introduce a test or an assessment to any kind of education system, you distort that education system.As soon as a teacher or a student knows there's going to be a test at some point in their education system, they affect how they behave. If the test is not very good at measuring what you're trying to measure, you'll get a negative effect and that's why it's called negative wash back.Ross: This is like one of the ones where it's a speaking test but it's tested through multiple choice so none at the class anyone speaks, they just practice multiple choice questions.Dan: That's right. Or it might be that they know that, for example, that there's 800 questions they might be asked in that test and so they spend all of their time just practicing those 800 hundred questions because they've got all of the past papers but they're not actually practicing the language.Or it could be that that test focuses very specifically on one skill area, receptive skills are very common, and grammar and vocabulary, just easier to assess its scale.Ross: Usually this is one of the reasons why speaking often happens so little in a lot of classrooms it's because it's really difficult to test.Dan: It's very difficult to assess at scale and cost effectively, but actually, it's one of the first things that we do as language teachers. One of the first skills that a language teacher learns is how to assess someone's speaking skills and get to know it but it's just very hard to scale that.You can have positive wash back where, let's say, you're in an education system where there isn't much speaking being practiced. If you introduce a decent speaking test into that education system, in a cost‑effective way, suddenly everyone's going to spend more time practicing speaking.That will mean that they have more opportunities later in life. It means they're better prepared to pass a high‑stakes exams or get into a good university.When people talk about, in practicing backwash or wash back or whatever, they often talk about it in a negative sense, but actually, a lot of the contracts I've seen it working in, if you're replacing something that's old or wasn't there at all or needs some adjustment, you can have a really positive effect on people's lives.

Returning guest Harry Nelson connects the dots for Jack and Dan as they discuss Season 18's "Yokel Chords," a Sound of Music parody about Cletus's kids that also has Bart going to therapy with Meg Ryan. What is "Dark Knight" short for? What does Harry's shirt say? And who has their finger on the pulse of Dan? All that plus Piconing, anti-continuity, and the surprising plot to Christopher Nolan's new World War II movie. NEXT WEEK: Season 24's The Saga of Carl www.weepodcast.com