Podcasts about CMO

Amanda Goetz is a two-time founder, four-time CMO, and single mom of three who's helping ambitious people redefine what “having it all” actually looks like. She inspires over 150,000 readers each week through her Life's a Game newsletter and her new book, Toxic Grit: How to Have It All and Actually Love What You Have. In this conversation, Amanda shares a grounded, intentional approach to ambition—one that makes space for work, relationships, and personal growth without burning out. On this episode we talk about: Why Amanda believes ambition isn't toxic—it's lack of intention that is How to embrace “and” thinking instead of living life as an “either/or” equation The hidden cost of letting one identity (career, parent, partner) take over your life How to transition between roles, build hierarchy, and avoid constant guilt The five pillars of Amanda's “portfolio career” and how to start building one yourself Top 3 Takeaways The solution to overwork or burnout isn't quitting ambition—it's learning to balance all your “characters” with awareness and structure. A thriving career doesn't have to compete with family, purpose, or rest—it can coexist when you embrace the and. Genuine success comes from self-awareness and human connection—two things that automation and hustle culture can't replace. Notable Quotes “Life isn't an or statement—it's an and. You can chase goals and still build a life you love.” “Toxic grit happens when one character takes over the whole storyline of your life.” “You can't automate your way out of human connection.” A Word from Our Sponsors:- The most successful business owners don't do it all themselves — they delegate. Upwork lets you build a team of highly skilled specialists for every function your business needs, so you can focus on what you do best and let experts handle the rest. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free! - Scribe captures workflows as work happens and automatically generates step-by-step guides with screenshots and instructions, so no one has to sit down and write documentation from scratch. Learn more at scribe.how/tmm and mention Travis Makes Money for your first month of Scribe Capture free on select plans. - When you need a legal hand, visit LegalZoom. Go to LegalZoom.com to get started! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Title: Signal Discipline: How Brands Use AI, Customer Signals, and Memory to Build TrustHost: Nick Brunker (Managing Director of Experience Strategy, VML)Guest: Adam Troyak (Managing Director, VML & WPP Enterprise Solutions)OverviewIn an era where AI makes capturing and storing customer data easier than ever, why are 77% of organizations reporting that AI adoption has outpaced their governance?In this episode of Human Centered, host Nick Brunker welcomes back Adam Troyak to unpack Signal Discipline—the strategic framework that separates customer care from customer surveillance. Adam breaks down why the biggest competitive advantage in AI isn't gathering more data, but developing the judgment to know what to remember, what to forget, and what to say out loud.Key Takeaways & Topics Covered:Data vs. Signals: Why functional data (clicks, browsing history) belongs to tech infrastructure, while first-party signals (human needs, self-disclosed preferences) belong to experience strategy.The "Surveilled" Trap: Why over 80% of tech spend lands in the high-data/low-trust quadrant—and why restraint is the true fix.The 5-Layer Signal Model: A step-by-step breakdown of Signals, Context, Memory, Trust, and Relationships.The Memory Policy Engine: How to build the "middle layer" in your tech stack that programmatically decides when data should persist, decay, surface, or be forgotten.Cross-Functional Alignment: Bringing the CIO, CMO, and Chief Risk Officer into the same room to map the 25 key "trust-bonding" moments in the customer journey.Read more of Adam's written pieces on Signal DisciplineThe Drum

1055. Host Laura Adams interviews Natasha Madan, CMO and consumer advocate at Credit Karma, about the financial habits of Gen Z, credit myths, and wise ways to use AI tools. You'll learn practical strategies to optimize your credit, get the best interest rates, and build wealth faster.Key TakeawaysTaking small, consistent actions, such as reducing your credit utilization or consolidating high-interest debt, adds up to slowly improve your finances.Paying bills on time and paying off credit card balances in full every month are ways to build credit without accruing interest charges.Beyond getting loans at lower interest rates, credit scores affect other parts of your finances, like your insurance rates (in most states) and whether you can rent a home or apartment.Always check and optimize your credit months ahead of applying for a major loan (like a mortgage or auto loan) so you can get approved for a competitive interest rate and cut interest.Younger generations, like Gen Z, want to enjoy life and plan wisely for the future, instead of sacrificing too much in the present moment.Discover more from Money Girl!FacebookNewsletterTranscripts available at QuickandDirtyTips.com.Email: Laura@LauraDAdams.com or leave a voicemail: (302) 364-0308. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What happens when the very definition of “workplace” changes almost overnight?This week, Jim sits down with Benji Baer, Chief Marketing Officer of CBRE, one of the world's largest commercial real estate and investment services companies. Operating in more than 100 countries, CBRE helps companies and investors buy, sell, lease, finance and manage everything from office towers and logistics centers to data centers, hotels and major urban developments.Benji joined CBRE in 2019, just months before the pandemic fundamentally reshaped how we think about offices, cities, flexibility and human connection at work. But her career has long been built around navigating complex businesses and industries rooted in trust. Before CBRE, she held senior marketing leadership roles at J.P. Morgan Chase, Legg Mason and AllianceBernstein.Tune in as Benji and Jim explore how CBRE is rethinking the workplace as a place people actively want to be, why employee experience and customer experience are deeply connected, and how the role of the modern CMO is evolving from storyteller to strategist and transformation leader.Benji also shares how she's built and developed her marketing organization, why outside inspiration and continuous learning are essential for leaders, and the importance of “bringing people with you” through periods of change. It's a conversation about growth, culture, ambition and why, even as technology transforms how we work, human connection matters more than ever.—Meet The CMO Podcast On the RoadThe CMO Podcast will be on the road throughout early 2027, capturing conversations with the leaders shaping the future of marketing, leadership, and business. If you'll be attending one of these events, we'd love to connect. Let us know!Advertising Week New York | October 5-7BLINK Cincinnati | October 8ANA Masters of Marketing | October 20–22CES | January 5-7—Interested in partnering with The CMO Podcast?!Looking ahead to the rest of 2026 and into 2027, we're partnering with brands to create executive content platforms that extend far beyond a single event. From pop-up podcast studios and live recordings to executive roundtables, keynote conversations, and bespoke thought leadership programs, we work with partners to build meaningful experiences that connect with senior marketing leaders.Whether you'd like to partner with us at one of the industry's biggest marketing events or create a custom experience designed specifically for your brand, we'd love to explore what's possible. Reach out to learn how we can build something together.Email us at podcasts@vyve.co—Produced by vYveThe CMO Podcast is proudly produced by vYve Production, a full-service production and content studio specializing in podcasts, executive storytelling, branded content, and live experiences. vYve is a community of ambitious leaders dedicated to unlocking what's next in business and in life. Through executive coaching, transformative experiences, strategic content, and communities like The CMO Podcast, vYve helps entrepreneurs, corporate leaders, and teams grow their businesses, strengthen their leadership, and build meaningful connections that last.Learn more about vYve and The CMO Podcast community at www.vyve.co.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

73% of people think they should have an estate plan. But only 26% actually do. So how do you get consumers to act on something they'd rather avoid?Recorded live at Brandweek, CEO Angela Voss sits down with Trust & Will CMO Dale Sperling. They break down five ways the digital estate planning brand builds trust at scale, from TV's signaling power to warm, human creative and sonic branding. Plus, hear how sticking with one campaign helped drive an 89% lift in unaided awareness since 2023.Topics covered: [01:00] Why trust drives purchase decisions [04:00] How TV signals legitimacy [05:30] Building creative around relatable life moments [07:00] Inside the Make It Count campaign [10:30] Running linear and CTV as one TV strategy [11:30] Why consistency pays off in brand building [13:30] What's next for Trust & Will  To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter.  Resources: 2024 Kantar Article: https://www.kantar.com/inspiration/advertising-media/trust-in-media-the-new-publishing-battleground2024 System1 Report: https://system1group.com/blog/the-extraordinary-cost-of-dull Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts 

In this episode of The Fearless Mindset Podcast, host Mark Ledlow reconnects with Army veteran and marketing professional Ron Owens, owner of Phame Marketing in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Ron shares what he is seeing among small and medium-sized businesses as economic uncertainty, changing consumer behavior, and tighter budgets force leaders to become more intentional about how they spend their marketing dollars. He emphasizes that fear-driven decisions can create costly blind spots, while strong strategy, experienced guidance, and a clear marketing roadmap can help businesses position themselves for sustainable growth.Ron also explains why simply posting on social media or buying ads is not the same as having a marketing strategy. Effective marketing starts with understanding the audience, identifying what makes a company uniquely valuable, and connecting with customers emotionally before overwhelming them with facts and features. The conversation also covers fractional CMO support, branding, referrals, digital credibility, podcasts, local marketing, social media awareness, and why relationships, trust, community, and face-to-face interaction remain essential in business.Learn about all this and more in this episode of The Fearless Mindset Podcast.KEY TAKEAWAYSStrategy comes before execution. Posting content, running Google ads, or hiring a social media manager can waste money if there is no clear roadmap, defined audience, or desired outcome behind the activity.Differentiate instead of copying competitors. Businesses need to identify what they do uniquely better. If your marketing could easily carry a competitor's logo, customers have little reason to choose you.Understand what motivates the customer. Buying decisions are often emotional first and analytical second. Marketing should connect with what customers feel and want before leading with features and data.Make the customer the hero. Instead of focusing on how great your company is, position the business as the guide that helps customers solve problems and achieve what matters to them.Referrals still carry enormous weight. A recommendation from someone a prospect trusts can open the door, while a strong website and digital presence help validate that recommendation.Build locally before expanding. Start hyper-local and establish credibility in your own market before trying to grow regionally or nationally.QUOTES“Every decision you've ever made, you made emotionally, and you have justified it analytically.”“We all wanna triumph at something. We all wanna win at something.”“There's nothing more powerful than a referral.”“Your marketing's got to elevate and substantiate your position in the marketplace.”“You gotta own your backyard and win your backyard before you're gonna have credibility outside of your yard.”“Human behavior's undefeated.”Get to know more about Ron Owens:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phamefounder/To hear more episodes of The Fearless Mindset podcast, you can go to https://the-fearless-mindset.simplecast.com/ or listen to major podcasting platforms such as Apple, Google Podcasts, Spotify, etc. You can also subscribe to the Fearless Mindset YouTube Channel to watch episodes on video.

Jessica talks with Hugo Pérez, an Emmy-winning storyteller, strategist, and founder of Local Boy Co., a creative consultancy and studio helping organizations find their message, sharpen it, and make it matter. A full-stack marketer with more than two decades of experience, he has led transformative work across advertising, higher education, startups, nonprofits, and brands—including Starbucks, Taco Bell, Allstate, MTV, Mars, AstraZeneca, and AT&T. Most recently, he served as CMO of a global plant-based food brand. Hugo is a speaker, mentor, educator, and author of Sparked: Rebellious Leadership Beyond the Ordinary. Across every platform, his work reflects one conviction: bold and honest stories remain among the most powerful tools we have to move people and ideas forward.Learn more about Hugo and his work at localboycreative.com. ~About The Ampersand Manifesto:What happens when you refuse to choose just one path? On The Ampersand Manifesto, host Jessica Wan sits down with “the most interesting people at the dinner party” – those who have made their mark in two or more seemingly different worlds. Through candid conversations, we explore what it takes to navigate multiple callings, find the connection points between them, and redefine success on our own terms. Together, we're co-creating The Ampersand Manifesto: principles for leading a multi-passionate life.~About your host, Jessica Wan:Executive Coach | Classical Singer | Former Marketing Leader & Tech ExecutiveJessica helps founders and leaders make the invisible visible. With 20+ years of experience scaling brands like Apple, Smule, and the San Francisco Opera, and as an ICF-certified executive coach, she provides the clarity and strategy needed to lead bravely and find fulfillment in a multi-passionate life.Work with Jessica: Book a Free Intro CallJoin The Cohort: An Ampersand Community for Dual-Career ProfessionalsFollow the Journey: @ampersandmanifestoConnect: Jessica's LinkedInListen: Singing Excerpts~CreditsCo-produced and hosted by ⁠Jessica Wan⁠Co-produced, edited, sound design, and original music by ⁠Carlos Schmitt

TITLE:Mortgage AI Exposed: The 2 Out of 3 Opportunities Lenders Miss | Josh FriendDESCRIPTION:What if mortgage lenders don't need more leads?What if the bigger problem is that they're failing to convert the opportunities they already have?In this episode of The FinTech Hunting Podcast, Michael Hammond sits down with Josh Friend, CEO and Founder of Insellerate, to separate AI hype from AI reality—and examine what massive amounts of mortgage data are revealing about sales, conversion, borrower engagement, and the future of lending.One finding should get every mortgage executive's attention: lenders may be capturing only about one-third of the potential mortgage transactions already in front of them.That raises a much more important question than “How do we generate more leads?”Why are so many existing opportunities being missed—and can AI help lenders capture them?Michael and Josh explore:• Why much of what is being marketed as “AI” may simply be existing technology with a new label• The question every mortgage executive should ask an AI vendor before buying• How AI can analyze sales conversations, objections, response times, and follow-up behavior• What top-producing loan officers do differently—and how AI can turn those behaviors into a repeatable playbook• Why improving conversion could create more growth than simply buying additional leads• How purpose-built LLMs could change the economics and security of enterprise AI• Why mortgage CRMs are evolving from systems of record into systems of intelligence• How a “golden record” can connect fragmented borrower data across the mortgage ecosystem• What happens when AI can tell a loan officer who to call, why to call them, and what action to take nextThis conversation goes beyond chatbots, automated emails, and AI features.It's about a much larger shift: using AI to redesign how a mortgage company identifies opportunities, makes decisions, engages borrowers, and converts business.Because there is a major difference between buying AI and actually becoming an AI-powered lender.If you're a mortgage CEO, lending executive, fintech leader, sales leader, or technology provider trying to understand where AI can create measurable business value, this is a conversation you'll want to watch.▶️ Watch the full episode with Josh Friend and discover where lenders may be leaving their biggest growth opportunity on the table.Subscribe to The FinTech Hunting Podcast for conversations with the executives, founders, and innovators shaping the future of mortgage, fintech, and financial services.###Michael Hammond, Founder of NexLevel Advisors, is the leading fractional CMO in mortgage and mortgage technology, specializing in AI-powered growth strategy and audience development.  Powering mortgage marketing excellence.

David Carro es Director de Direct to Consumer en Samsung Iberia. Con más de dos décadas de experiencia impulsando iniciativas de transformación digital en grandes multinacionales, Carro es un especialista en experiencia de cliente, modelos digitales y tecnologías aplicadas a la eficiencia del negocio. Además, es un referente en inteligencia artificial, disciplina en la que acumula una amplia experiencia. Es también miembro fundador del Foro de Inteligencia Artificial.Referencias:* David Carro en LinkedIn* Organizaciones de marketing para gobernar algoritmos (David Carro en Programmatic Spain, 10 de septiembre de 2026)* Foro de Inteligencia Artificial* Bernardo Crespo: estadios y niveles de madurez del CDO en la estrategia de datos (Masters of Privacy, abril de 2020)* Sergio Maldonado, The CMO's case against marketing attribution (2017). This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.mastersofprivacy.com/subscribe

On this episode of How to Grow a CMO, host Alastair Hussain is joined by Amy Messano, Chief Marketing and Communications Officer at Thomson Reuters.Amy reflects on her free-range childhood in Michigan, where independence, imagination and learning through failure shaped her outlook. She also discusses being an introvert in a highly visible role, why reading and walking keep her grounded, and the importance of recognising how different people contribute.They explore Amy's journey from communications into marketing at Microsoft, her experience translating complex technologies into compelling stories, and why established companies can be both trusted and innovative. Amy explains the value of bringing marketing and communications together, building teams around progress rather than perfection, and listening before applying familiar playbooks. She also shares why curiosity can make any subject interesting and why great storytelling ultimately begins with people.How to Grow a CMO is brought to you by tmp – the global marketing agency for B2B technology brands. To find out more, visit ⁠https://www.tmpb2b.com

Michael Götz ist CMO von Gustavo Gusto und prägt die Marke seit ihren Anfängen.Mit Olli & Martin spricht er darüber, wie ein Disruptor erwachsen wird, ohne sein Andersdenken zu verlieren.Aus einer Pizzaidee ist in zehn Jahren eine der bemerkenswertesten Challenger-Geschichten im deutschen Lebensmittelhandel geworden. Doch Michael interessiert weniger der Rückblick als die nächste Phase: Was Gustavo Gusto hierhergebracht hat, reicht nicht automatisch für die kommenden zehn Jahre. Organisation und Rollen müssen mitwachsen, neue Produkte und Kooperationen weiter überraschen – und eine Marke, die vom Anderssein lebt, darf sich ausgerechnet mit den neuen Möglichkeiten der KI nicht ins kommunikative "Gleiches unter Gleichem" optimieren. Michael zeigt an konkreten Cases, wie Gustavo Gusto diesen Spagat angeht: von Kooperationen und Cultural Marketing über ungewöhnliches Retail Media bis zum sehr pragmatischen AI-Einsatz im Arbeitsalltag.KEY TAKEAWAYS:Transformation vor der Krise beginnen: Jede Wachstumsphase verlangt andere Strukturen.Produkt und Marke von Beginn an gemeinsam bauen – und Kooperationen als echten Innovationsraum nutzenKI zum Realisieren guter Ideen einsetzen, aber Kreativität und alles, wo Authentizität wichtig ist, nicht an KI delegieren.Themen unter anderem:Erwachsenwerden einer Challenger-MarkeCultural Marketing und digitaler ZeitgeistWachstumsbeschleuniger AI im AlltagseinsatzLinks:KI-Ad von Liquid Death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNwwqsU6-f4LinkedIn:→ Michael Götz→ Olli Busch→ Martin Boeing-MessingKeywords: Tiefkühlpizza, FMCG, Challenger Brand, Disruptor, Marktführer, Premiumsegment, Point of Sale, Retail Media, Augmented Reality, Packaging, Gen Alpha, Gen Z, Food, Internationalisierung, Creator Economy, Licensing, Retail Activation Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kurt spent a day at Beanstalk, an invite-only ecommerce conference at Industry City in Brooklyn, recording 15-minute conversations under a tent. Seven made it to tape. Every guest is on Shopify. Not one led with paid ads.The lineup: Matt Butcher of Adam's Polishes on why he comes. Jay Wright, who spends about a billion dollars a year on Meta, on why your media buying is "completely cooked." Maria Lopez-May, VP Marketing at Nugget, on life after the pandemic lottery. Vivek Kumar, CEO of Articore (Redbubble and TeePublic), on their new Shopify integration and a $20 million turnaround. NJ Falk of APL on $400 sneakers and the thing she noticed about Sidekick. Robbie Bent of Othership on building $15 million bathhouses and marketing through the local dentist. Ali Weiss, former CMO of Glossier, on launching NoBiggie and choosing not to turn on paid.Paul was not there. He asks what you would ask.What you'll learn:Why a curated conference beats a big one: "everyone I bump into here is worth chatting with"Jay Wright: Meta is an auction, someone is winning at that CPM, and it is not the person buying like it's 2022The biggest mistake Jay sees: founders abdicating growth to a $1,000-a-month retainerHow to label your ad creative so your own account tells you what to make nextMaria Lopez-May of Nugget: right product, right time, then the dupes, then Amazon and CTVArticore's first profit since listing and a Shopify integration that launched ten days before the interviewWhy print-on-demand sellers should not put "the kitchen sink" on their storeAPL: Magento to Shopify Plus in a week, then a flagship store opened four months before lockdownThe Sidekick detail NJ Falk noticed and Kurt never didOthership: a horse trough in a backyard, 90 people screaming in a dark sauna, and why brick and mortar takes two decadesWhy local influencers (the trainer, the stylist, the bartender) beat wide-reach channels for a neighborhood businessAli Weiss on unlearning beauty margins, "playing on hard mode" with two buyers, and why getting on a Target shelf is the easy partNoBiggie Neighbors: free product for your kid's birthday party as the whole acquisition strategyThe hard decision to not turn on paid until repeat purchase shows up across channelsHosts: Kurt Elster and Paul Reda, co-owners of Ethercycle, a Shopify-exclusive agency.SPONSORSSwym - Wishlists, Back in Stock alerts, & moregetswym.com/kurtCleverific - Smart order editing for Shopifycleverific.comZipify - Build high-converting sales funnelszipify.com/KURTLINKSBeanstalk: https://www.beanstalkevents.comAdam's Polishes: https://adamspolishes.comEcommerce Equation: https://ecommerceequation.comJay Wright on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jaywrightofficial/Nugget: https://nuggetcomfort.comArticore Group: https://articore.comDashery: https://www.dashery.comAPL: https://athleticpropulsionlabs.comOthership: https://othership.usNoBiggie: https://nobiggieplease.comWORK WITH KURTApply for Shopify Helpethercycle.com/applySee Our Resultsethercycle.com/workFree Newsletterkurtelster.comThe Unofficial Shopify Podcast is hosted by Kurt Elster and explores the stories behind successful Shopify stores. Get actionable insights, practical strategies, and proven tactics from entrepreneurs who've built thriving ecommerce businesses.

What does "killing it" actually look like behind the scenes? Because sometimes it's a huge stage and an incredible opportunity. And sometimes it's a soggy airport sandwich, a missed flight, or admitting that something just isn't working. In this episode, Erin sits down with speaker, author, and emotional intelligence expert Rich Bracken for a chat about the side of success we don't always talk about (or get to hear). They dig into why we're so quick to measure accomplishments but ignore how we actually feel, the power of being honest about failure, and why vulnerability matters more than maintaining the appearance that everything is fine. Rich also shares his "Theory of Why Not," the mindset that has led him to take some pretty wild chances throughout his career, and why meaningful progress usually comes from consistent effort rather than trying to knock it out of the park every single day. Here's what you'll hear: Why your feelings deserve as much attention as your metrics What the polished version of "killing it" leaves out How asking "Why not?" can lead to unexpected opportunities Why small, consistent effort is more powerful than perfection How vulnerability, curiosity, and genuine care make us better leaders Connect with Rich on LinkedIn Learn more at richbracken.com. Book Erin to speak Ready to modernize your culture, liberate your leadership, and differentiate your business without sounding like every other company on LinkedIn? Bring Erin Hatzikostas in to show your team how authenticity can become an actual strategic advantage, not just another corporate buzzword. Book Erin to Speak If you'd like quick tangible tips and practical corporate career advice to level up your authentic leadership, download the 10 simple "plays" to stop selling out and start standing out at https://bauthenticinc.mykajabi.com/freebie If you like jammin' with us on the podcast, b sure to join us for more fun and inspiration! Follow Erin on LinkedIn or Instagram Take our simple, fun and insightful "What's your workplace superhero name?" quiz Unleash your Authentic Superpower with Erin's book, You Do You-ish Throw out half the playbook and start competing in a league of your own. Check out Erin's book, The 50% Rule. Work with Us Or just buy some fun, authentic, kick-ars merch here To connect with Erin and/or Nicole, email: hello@bauthenticinc.com DISCLAIMER: This episode is not explicit, though contains mild swearing that may be unsuitable for younger audiences. Tweetable Comments "The feeling is data, too." "We all want to feel seen and heard and respected, so show that and you'll get it back." "If you put the other person first, everything else unfolds the way it should." "The best leaders I ever worked for or worked with were human beings. They were vulnerable, they were honest, and they cared." Editor's note: This transcript has been edited for clarity and length while preserving the substance and conversational tone of the original discussion. Erin Hatzikostas sits down with speaker, author, coach, and emotional intelligence expert Rich Bracken to talk about what success really looks like behind the scenes. They explore emotional intelligence, vulnerability, failure, leadership, consistent effort, Rich's "Theory of Why Not," and why some of the biggest opportunities in your career can start with simply being willing to take a chance. Success Is More Than a Metric Erin: I want to start by reading something from your book because this took my breath away. You wrote, "The most dangerous blind spot in change management isn't a missed metric. It's individual and group satisfaction. That's the left hook nobody sees coming. We get so obsessed with what we can measure that we stop paying attention to what we can't. The feeling is data, too." You talk about how we want everyone to believe everything is fine. We hit the number. It worked. We never heard no. Admitting that we came up short or something didn't work can feel like weakness, so we skip past it. We're much quicker to share our wins than our failures. And that instinct doesn't just apply to metrics. It applies to how we feel. We hide emotional shortcomings the same way we hide missed targets because vulnerability in either form feels like exposure. Rich: I think we need to chip away at this idea of perfection because, number one, it doesn't exist. Nobody is going to be perfect. Nothing is ever going to be perfect. The more people admit their failures, admit their shortcomings, or admit that something went wrong, the more honest we can be. I lost a contract the other day that was devastating to me. It was going to be huge for me. And the first thing I thought was, "I've got to talk to somebody about the failure." It's one thing to say everything is great and trucking along, but when those left hooks come, sometimes you need somebody to grab you and lift you off the ground. It's tough. Erin: I think this applies to people at every level of their careers. We get asked all these metric-driven questions. How many talks did you do? How much business did you bring in? What did you accomplish? My goal is two or three talks a month. That translates to around 30 talks a year, and I freaking love that. I don't necessarily want 100 talks a year. And when people ask how things are going, in general I'm like, "My life's fucking awesome." Not just because I'm hitting a number. My life in totality is great. We spend so much time talking about how many. Maybe we need to talk more about how it actually feels. What "Killing It" Really Looks Like Erin: Let's talk about "killing it," because when we met, we immediately started laughing about what people think success looks like versus what it actually looks like. What's an example of "killing it" for you? Rich: There are so many. If killing it looks like sorting through which airport sandwich is the least soggy because everything else is closed and I've missed three flights, then yes, I'm killing it. Does killing it look like sitting in front of my computer cursing because I can't find the last version of a presentation I worked on? Is killing it putting your PowerPoint into Google only to have your client download it and suddenly the font looks like Wingdings? That's the part people don't see. I love what I do. I wouldn't trade it for the world. But I think the closest comparison to a professional speaker's life is a touring musician. It's exhausting. You're traveling constantly. You're dealing with airports, weather, schedules, flights, hotels, and all of these things happening around the glamorous part people see. Erin: The facade is cool, though. Rich: Absolutely. And sometimes it really is cool. I'm about to speak in front of nearly 10,000 people. I have custom lighting. I have a walk-up video. There are going to be glow sticks, music, singing, dancing. It's going to look like I'm a rock star. But somebody asked me, "What are you going to do for the rest of the day?" I said, "I'm going back to my room, curling up in a ball, and not talking to anyone." That's what killing it looks like too. I know I'll walk off that stage on cloud nine, but I'll also be completely empty. I'll need to refuel. Erin: I have plenty of those stories too. Killing it was somebody reaching out to ask me to endorse a book, and then realizing they had confused me with the author of a completely different book. Killing it was getting what I thought was fan mail asking for my autograph six months after starting the podcast, then realizing somebody was probably trying to get my signature for fraud. Killing it was putting together footage for my speaker reel and discovering you could see my underwear when I turned around onstage. That's the behind-the-scenes version. Small Steps Can Change Your Entire Life Erin: One of the foundational stories in your life is losing more than 100 pounds. Tell us about that. Rich: I was a rail-thin kid and played sports year-round. Then I was diagnosed with exercise-induced asthma. I'm my parents' only child, so my mom basically said, "Stay inside, eat whatever you want, and play video games." I went from being outside constantly to being inside constantly, and I started putting on weight. By middle school I was the heavier kid, and I got teased quite a bit. Football became a saving grace because being bigger suddenly gave me an identity. I was an offensive lineman. I was the protector. I opened opportunities for the running backs and helped keep my friends safe. I eventually played a year of college football. Then I quit, and that identity disappeared. The eating habits stayed, but the workout habits went away. I got up to about 260 pounds. I fell into this really low self-esteem mindset. I didn't like what I saw in the mirror. I was miserable. Erin: Was there a specific moment that made you decide to change? Rich: It sounds silly, but I got tired of pulling my shirt away from my body. I was constantly adjusting it because I was afraid of my body showing. I was exhausted. I didn't have energy. I was depressed. I didn't want to do anything. I wasn't social. I finally had my diet analyzed, and everything was off the charts. Cholesterol, calories, fat, everything. My health instructor gave me something incredibly simple. He told me to replace certain foods with better options, eliminate fast food and carbonated drinks, and walk one mile a day. That was it. I didn't need to change everything overnight. I didn't need three hours of cardio or two hours in the gym. I just needed to do something small and see progress. Eventually I went from a 40-inch waist to trying on a pair of 34-inch pants in an Old Navy dressing room and screaming because they actually fit. Those moments taught me that I could change something huge by consistently doing small things. It transformed my life because I started to believe I could take on other things too. The Theory of Why Not Erin: That leads really naturally into something you call your "Theory of Why Not." What is it? Rich: I tell people all the time that I have the most ridiculous life résumé of anybody I've ever met. The things I've done, the people I've met, the situations I've put myself in, all of those experiences come back to the theory of why not. Why not give it a shot? Why not me? Why not try it? The worst you're going to hear is no. I don't ever want to die with all these ideas that might have been great, but I never acted on them. So many people are afraid to try because the possibility of failure exists. They don't want to say, "I want to do this thing," because what if it doesn't work? The Theory of Why Not is about getting out of your own head and getting out of your own way. I've been on several game shows. I've also missed several other ones because I took a chance on them and didn't get picked. I've had speaking opportunities, business opportunities, media opportunities, and all kinds of experiences. The ones people see are great. What we don't talk about are the dozens that didn't happen. The dozens of no's. The dozens of, "You're nice, but..." Those are the things we're terrified of. But I can say I've lived a very full life. If I went away tomorrow, I went for it. If you continually talk yourself out of opportunities, dreams, lofty goals, or ridiculous ideas, you'll never know what could have happened. Sometimes you have to ask, "Why not? What's the worst that could happen?" Taking a Chance With a Mix CD Erin: What's an early example of you living this way? Rich: When I was in graduate school, I had the opportunity to study in England. I was also DJing, and one of the top radio stations in the country happened to be about two blocks from where I lived. For those of you under 40, brace yourself. I took my mix CD to the radio station. I basically said, "I've loved the English music scene for years. It's one of the reasons I'm a DJ. I just want to know what you think. Am I any good? How do I stack up?" I told them, "If you hate it and never want to talk to me again, that's fine. At least I took the shot." Three days later, the station's marketing manager called me. She said, "You told me you have half-day Fridays and a rail pass, right?" I said yes. She said, "Great. We've booked you for six opening slots at different clubs around the country, opening for some huge DJs." All because I walked in and handed somebody a CD. I wasn't expecting that. I just wanted feedback. If I had never raised my hand, I never would have known. Some of the coolest things I've ever gotten to do happened because I was willing to take that kind of chance. Opening for Avicii and Going on Game Shows Rich: Another great example was auditioning to open for Avicii when he was one of the biggest DJs in the world. I was competing against people who were DJing regularly. I had a corporate job and was DJing on the side for fun. But I believed in my style. I believed in my energy. I believed I could earn that spot. So I auditioned. I got picked. I ended up opening for Avicii in Kansas City in front of thousands of people. It was phenomenal. That same mindset has led me to game shows, television, speaking, and writing a book. I was on $100,000 Pyramid. My partner was Von Miller, who had just won the Super Bowl and was the Super Bowl MVP. Usher was also there. He was a terrible game show teammate. Erin: Was he? Rich: Terrible. I was also on a reality show on ESPN, and I competed to host another television show. I made it to the final four and didn't get the job. But it was still an incredible experience. My ridiculous dream job is to host The Price Is Right someday. And the funny part is, because of one of the shows I was on, I'm now one degree of separation from that job. That alone is the Theory of Why Not. Erin: You're making me think I need to go on a game show. Rich: Why not? The Biggest Lesson Rich Learned From Being a DJ Erin: You DJed for a long time. Now you speak and coach executives, speakers, and professional athletes. What did being a DJ teach you that translates into what you do now? Rich: Two things. The first is self-awareness and self-confidence. People think DJing is just standing there pushing buttons and playing music, but there's an art to it. You're exposing yourself creatively. And if something goes wrong with the music, sound, or song choice, you can't hide. You're the person standing there controlling everything. Confidence, self-awareness, and believing in what you're creating matter. The second lesson is that it's not about you. One of my favorite pieces of advice is, "You're not more important than coffee." If an event has to choose between having coffee or having a keynote speaker, you're probably gone. They're picking coffee. Erin: They're definitely picking coffee. Rich: But the bigger point is this: whether you're a speaker, leader, salesperson, attorney, professional service provider, or anyone else, if you put the other person first, everything else unfolds the way it should. I've seen speakers go onstage and make the entire thing about themselves, their show, and their ego. It bombs. When somebody gets up there to truly engage the audience, help them, and serve them, people feel it. The same thing happens with DJs. And the same thing happens if you're pitching a client or running a team meeting. That's an audience too. If you show up with confidence in what you're doing, but your number-one priority is helping the people in front of you, that energy speaks for itself. You'll build better relationships and connect with people differently. Every Meeting Is a Stage Erin: That translates directly to people in traditional corporate roles too. You can walk into a board meeting, staff meeting, presentation, or one-on-one and feel that same stage fright. You start believing perfection is the game. But even if you're the person leading the meeting or walking everyone through the PowerPoint, it's not about you. How do you make the other people feel? How do you make sure they're engaged? Rich: Exactly. And it's hard to fake. People need to spend time off the stage thinking about what they do, why they do it, and how they help people. Your "stage" could be a boardroom. It could be a speaker stage. It could be a DJ booth. It could be whatever auditorium your profession puts you in. When you're serving people and helping people, you make them feel good, but you also feel better because there's meaning behind what you're doing. Behind the Successful Face Erin: You've coached CEOs, speakers, professional athletes, and even celebrities. What trips people up behind closed doors that might surprise us? Rich: Deep down, we're all a little insecure. We all second-guess ourselves. We all deal with some level of, "I don't know. I'm not sure. Why me? Can I do this?" People put their successful face on for the world, and we forget they're human. People get hurt. They fail. They get scared. I'll coach somebody who looks incredibly successful from the outside, and then behind the scenes they'll say, "I don't know," or, "I tried this and it didn't work, and it really hurt." I think one of the reasons I connect with people is that I treat everybody like a human being I care about. When you do that, you connect differently. When a relationship is transactional and you're clearly after something, people can smell it like a shark smells blood in the water. Serve people first. Reach out genuinely. Ask questions that show you actually give a damn about who they are as people. We all want to feel seen and heard and respected, so show that and you'll get it back. Consistency Beats Trying to Knock It Out of the Park Erin: You've kept the weight off for 27 years, so obviously consistency has been a huge part of your life. What do people misunderstand about consistent effort? Rich: We have this idea that every time we do something it has to be some knock-it-out-of-the-park experience. That's not accurate. Let's say you want to get back into working out. If you go stretch for three minutes, that's something. If you do a one-minute plank, that's something. If you walk for five minutes, that's success. That is consistency of effort. There are days I feel great. I'm working out, I'm listening to music, and everything clicks. There are other days when the last effing thing I want to do is lift a weight. If I do 10 minutes on one of those days, I can call it a success. At my level of energy and care in that moment, doing something is a win. I don't slay every workout. Sometimes I get up intending to work out and realize I'm not going to do it well. So instead of beating myself up, I shift my mindset and say, "Today I'm going to deal with whatever garbage is holding me back, and tomorrow I'm going to show up better." Erin: I think the other part of consistency is choosing the thing you're actually likely to do. People ask, "Should I ride a bike? Should I run? Should I walk? Should I lift weights?" Pick the thing you're most likely to keep doing. I was just talking to my son, who is trying to grow his speaking platform. He said he needed to figure out the marketing stuff. I gave him a bunch of options and then told him, "You have to pick the thing that actually excites you." All of these things can work, and all of them can fail. Pick the thing you're most likely to consistently do. The same applies to leadership. Leadership can feel like you're supposed to read 72 books and do 80 things every day. What if you picked one thing you were going to consistently do instead? The Best Leaders Are Still Human Rich: As people move up in organizations and take on more responsibility, they often become more visible, more guarded, and more concerned about the impact of their decisions. At the same time, there are so many corporate experts and thought leaders telling people how they're supposed to lead that we start thinking we need to show up like Simon Sinek, Mel Robbins, or somebody else every day. The best leaders I ever worked for or worked with were human beings. They were vulnerable. They were honest. And they cared. I've worked for great bosses, and I've worked for dumpster-fire bosses. The stark difference is that the great ones cared and stayed human. Read the books. Listen to the podcasts. Go to the seminars. But don't lose track of why you're doing what you're doing or what makes it meaningful and fun for you. Erin: I've joked that from a traditional Leadership 101 perspective, I'm probably a B-minus. I'm not a great planner. I might walk into a meeting without an agenda. I don't always package feedback perfectly. But I always felt like authenticity was this trump card. It didn't wipe away every mistake, but if you can set aside your ego, be honest, show humility, and genuinely care about people, that covers a lot. Being Good at the Job Does Not Automatically Make You a Good Leader Rich: One mistake organizations make is assuming, "This person is really good at the thing, so we should make them the leader of the thing." You're a great salesperson, so we make you a regional sales director. You're a great marketer, so we make you the chief marketing officer. That doesn't automatically mean you're going to be a great leader. Sometimes people don't even want the leadership job, but they feel guilty saying no because it comes with more money, credibility, or status. Organizations need to become better at identifying who actually wants to lead and who has the potential to do it well. And once you become a leader, the job changes. If you're a regional director of sales, you aren't primarily selling anymore. You're guiding and coaching other people to become better salespeople. It's literally a people job, not a thing job. I coached somebody once who kept saying, "I don't understand why they don't do this. I don't understand why they complain about that." And I said, "Ask them." Ask them why they're not motivated. Ask them what they need. You're their coach. The coach of a football team isn't running onto the field and playing with the seventh graders. The coach prepares them to play. That's what leaders do. It's about serving your people. And you have to remember that what worked for you may not work for everybody. Different people require different communication, different motivation, and different support. As a leader, you need to ask questions, become more socially aware, develop trust, and understand the nuance of each person on your team. When "Why Not?" Means Trusting Your Judgment Erin: We ask every guest about their "Buck That" moment. What's a time when you went against what was expected, felt a little uncomfortable doing it, but good things happened because of it? Rich: I was working at a law firm doing business development, and one of the attorneys and I identified a huge business opportunity. It was going to require some extra work and a little thinking outside the box, but we mapped out a path to make it happen. I went to my CMO and explained the idea. She said, "Absolutely not." She didn't ask a single question. Not, "Tell me more." Not, "What could we gain?" Not, "What would this take?" Just no. I was pissed because I felt like the idea had been dismissed without any curiosity. Now, I'll do crazy things and take chances, but I'm also calculated about it. I'm not reckless. I had really thought through this opportunity, and I believed it would work. So I did it anyway. I recruited a few people who were willing to help me after hours. We got the project finished ahead of the deadline and launched it. Eventually my CMO appeared in my doorway holding a printed copy of the email announcing the initiative I had been told not to do. She said, "What is this?" On the outside I was very apologetic. On the inside, I was thinking, "Ha." She was absolutely livid. But two things happened. The attorney I partnered with ended up getting national recognition in The Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg and became a recognized expert on the subject. Later, after I had left the firm, he called me. He had just signed the biggest deal in the firm's history. He told me, "I just want to thank you for sticking your neck out. You believed in me and you believed in this project." I'll never forget that. I'm not advocating complete rebellion. But sometimes you have to trust yourself enough to recognize that you've thought something through and you know what the right move is. Sometimes you need to do what's right for the business, but do it your way. Make Work Suck Less by Finding a Way to Have Fun Erin: Last question. What's one thing people can do to make work suck less? Rich: Find a way to have fun. Even if you're sitting there thinking, "I'm an accountant. How?" One of the things I do with audiences is build playlists together. Everybody scans a QR code and submits a song that makes them happy. The playlists are hilarious and amazing. Then I send the playlist back to the company and tell everybody to keep the link. When you need five minutes of happiness, five minutes of energy, or five minutes to shift your mood, go to the playlist and pick a song. It may not even be your song, but somebody you work with chose it because it makes them happy. Try something new. Take five minutes. Have the ridiculous singing and dancing party in your office or cubicle if that's what makes the day better. There is always a way to have more fun. You just have to figure out what that looks like for you. Erin: Why not? Rich: Exactly. Why not?

CMOs are putting more than 15% of their marketing budgets into Al. But 70% say their own marketing processes aren't ready for it. Where Does Your Next Marketing Dollar Go? Before you spend your next marketing dollar on Al, look at what Gartner found when it asked 401 CMOs about their budgets this year. They are putting more than 15 percent of the marketing budget into Al, and 70 percent of them say their own processes aren't ready for it My guest on this episode of The AI Marketing Companion has an explanation for that gap. Marie Bahl is the CMO of Uptempo, whose software helps marketing teams at companies like IBM and IKEA plan and track every dollar they spend. She has marketed enterprise software for 30 years, and she writes for both CMOs and CFOs. Who Wires Together Every Marketing Dollar? A quick primer first. A point solution is software built to do one job: send email, run webinars, score leads, report attribution. Marie counts more than 15,000 of them sold to marketers. A large team might run 50, each bought at a different time by a different person, and few of them share numbers. In finance or HR, IT or a consulting firm connects the systems. In marketing, that wiring job landed on the CMO. Marie's description of the result: "We've allowed this crazy patchwork quilt of solutions to ineffectively represent us, and what happens in the mix is we lose credibility." Her one-line summary of the job today: "The CMO job today is mostly defensive. We're playing defense instead of offense." Marketing Is a Business, So Defend the Marketing Dollar Like One Marie argues that marketing is a business inside the business. Marketers build the market, and they create a series of products that deliver that market on behalf of what the company sells. Running it that way means trading impressions and clicks for measures a CFO already uses. She told me the story of IBM seeing its entire marketing budget in one view for the first time. The Kentucky Derby sponsorship couldn't justify itself next to everything else on the page, so IBM walked away from it. Could your biggest line item survive that same view? Play Along: Keep, Kill, or Hand It Back I asked Marie to sort five tasks that sit on a typical CMO's desk: Choosing and wiring the marketing software Reconciling the budget with finance Buying AI tools for the team Cleaning customer data Building the attribution report for the board Sort them for your own desk before you listen. Then hear which one Marie still owns herself, and the sentence she thinks every marketing leader should say to their CIO this week. Her challenge to all of us: "It's time to stop and ask for the underpinning that you need in order to be credible on behalf of your business." [Listen to the full episode] Hear Marie out, then decide where your next marketing dollar goes.

What does it take for a startup from Korea to break into the US market? Four founders share how they're doing it.Recorded live at Startup Crawl in Fayetteville, Arkansas, this episode features founders from the Korea Global Expansion Accelerator. They build AI companion robots for isolated seniors, AI-powered lead generation, classroom analytics for early childhood education, and hotel operations software. We also go inside RISE Arkansas, a no-cost program for tech and tech-enabled startups. The episode closes with a look at how Startup Crawl grew from one building to a downtown-wide event.In this episode:✅ AI companionship for aging populations✅ Selling without a network in relationship-driven markets✅ Asian business data for US brands✅ AI insights into how young kids play and learn✅ Tech vs. tech-enabled startups✅ Why staying power matters in entrepreneurial support⏱️Chapters: 0:00 Introduction 0:20 Live from Startup Crawl 2024 0:55 From Hong Kong IT to senior care 2:24 AI companion robots for isolated seniors 5:05 Selling in Asia without connections 7:45 How AI lead generation works 9:32 Asian business data for US brands 13:10 AI that tracks how preschoolers play and learn 15:08 From Hasbro toy designer to edtech founder 17:40 RISE Arkansas: free support for tech startups 18:30 Tech vs. tech-enabled startups 20:02 109 startups in 101 days 27:58 Hotel operations tech from Korea 33:58 How Startup Crawl grew from 2019 to 2024 36:55 Why staying power mattersFeatured guests:Louis Lee, CMO, Wonderful Platform: https://www.linkedin.com/in/louisleedonguk/Jay Lee, Co-founder & CSO, DeepSales: https://deepsales.com/Sarah No, Head of Product, PlayTag: https://playtag.ai/Stephen Park, Do WhatChris Adams & Kate Lockridge, RISE Arkansas: risearkansas.org-----

Buy a brand, and it shows up on your balance sheet. Build one, and it doesn't. Wharton professor Dave Reibstein thinks that's backwards.This week, Elena, Angela, and Rob are joined by Dave Reibstein, the William S. Woodside Professor of Marketing at the Wharton School and co-author of Marketing Metrics. Dave explains how to put an actual number on brand value, whether you take it in price premium, volume, or some mix of both. He shares 10 years of research on how country branding shapes trade, tourism, and investment, plus why "Made in Italy" still sells shoes. Plus, hear the team pitch which country they'd take over as CMO.Topics covered: [03:00] Research on customer capital and talent risk [06:00] Why marketing metrics need standard definitions [07:30] What brand value looks like as a number [09:30] Balancing promotions against long-term brand building [12:00] The management behavior that moves results most [13:30] Why every country should manage its brand [19:30] Dave's case for brand value on the balance sheet  To learn more, visit marketingarchitects.com/podcast or subscribe to our newsletter at marketingarchitects.com/newsletter.  Resources: 2021 Journal of Finance Study: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3187850Dave Reibstein's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-reibstein-34269/ Get more research-backed marketing strategies by subscribing to The Marketing Architects on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 

How much money would you have to have before you completely lose the ability to say, “You know what? That's probably a stupid way to spend my money.” This week on the FratChat Podcast, we're diving into The Most Ridiculous Things Celebrities Have Spent Money On, and we're talking about some truly insane shit. We're talking about Paris Hilton building a $325,000 mansion for her dogs, Mike Tyson dropping $2 million on a bathtub, Kim Kardashian and Kanye West reportedly spending $750,000 on four gold plated toilets, Barbra Streisand literally building a tiny shopping district underneath her house. And that's just the beginning. Basically, if you've ever felt guilty about spending $200 on something you didn't need, this episode should make you feel a whole lot better. Plus, we've got plenty of FratChat chaos outside the main topic. CMo opens the show by revealing that he's officially back on the market, which leads to a surprisingly honest conversation about breakups, being alone, and why “just go sleep with someone new” might be the worst relationship advice of all time. In Emails From the Listeners, we help a listener decide whether to confess that she was the mystery person who puked inside her boyfriend's closet during a football party, while another listener asks what to do about a coworker's controversial social media posts. Then in the News, we have a Florida man who crashed his truck while applying deodorant behind the wheel, because apparently smelling fresh was more important than keeping his GMC Sierra on the road. And in Not the Drag Queens, we get into the legal case involving Florida state representative Fabian Basabe, including his decision to represent himself in court and the fallout from the jury's verdict. Got a question, comment or topic for us to cover? Let us know! Send us an email at fratchatpodcast@gmail.com or follow us on all social media: Instagram: http://Instagram.com/FratChatPodcast Facebook: http://Facebook.com/FratChatPodcast Twitter: http://Twitter.com/FratChatPodcast YouTube: http://YouTube.com/@fratchatpodcast Follow Carlos and CMO on social media! Carlos:  IG: http://Instagram.com/CarlosDoesTheWorld YouTube: http://YouTube.com/@carlosdoestheworld TikTok: http://TikTok.com/@carlosdoestheworld Twitter: http://Twitter.com/CarlosDoesWorld Threads: http://threads.net/carlosdoestheworld Website: http://carlosgarciacomedy.com Chris ‘CMO' Moore:  IG: http://Instagram.com/Chris.Moore.Comedy TikTok: http://TikTok.com/@chris.moore.comedy Twitter: http://Twitter.com/cmoorecomedy Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A CMO Confidential Interview with Bob Liodice, the long-time CEO of the Association of National Advertisers (ANA). Bob shares thoughts on the rapidly evolving marketing landscape, why AI won't necessarily translate to growth, the challenges of the CMO position, and the importance of lifelong learning and curiosity to successful careers. Key topics include:- Why you need to rip up your playbook every year- The need to value brands from a financial perspective- The idea of getting comfortable enough with all of the tools, data and media to make informed decisions- The evolution of cross media measurement including the Aquila model being pioneered by the ANA and a number of companies and associationsTune in to hear how he grew the ANA from 188 member companies to 1,600 (representing over 20,000 brands) and a story about media waste and transparency. ⏱️ Chapters1:08 - State of Marketing and Industry Evolution8:54 - AI, Consumer Discovery, and Funnels11:41 - The Complex Job of the CMO17:44 - B2B and B2C Marketing Convergence21:18 - Solving Cross Media MeasurementThis episode is sponsored by NOAN - the company that builds a fact layer for your brand, creating a single source of truth for your team, both human and agent. Learn more: getnoan.com/cmo.Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring world-class marketing leaders, board members, and C-Suite executives.#CMOConfidential, #MarketingLeadership, #BrandStrategy, #CorporateActivism, #MarketingStrategy, #CMO, #AIinMarketing, #ExecutiveLeadership, #BrandReputation, #ConsumerTrust, #DigitalMarketing, #MarketingInsights, #ThoughtLeadership, #BusinessStrategy, #CustomerCentricSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What does "killing it" actually look like behind the scenes? Because sometimes it's a huge stage and an incredible opportunity. And sometimes it's a soggy airport sandwich, a missed flight, or admitting that something just isn't working. In this episode, Erin sits down with speaker, author, and emotional intelligence expert Rich Bracken for a chat about the side of success we don't always talk about (or get to hear). They dig into why we're so quick to measure accomplishments but ignore how we actually feel, the power of being honest about failure, and why vulnerability matters more than maintaining the appearance that everything is fine. Rich also shares his "Theory of Why Not," the mindset that has led him to take some pretty wild chances throughout his career, and why meaningful progress usually comes from consistent effort rather than trying to knock it out of the park every single day. Here's what you'll hear: Why your feelings deserve as much attention as your metrics What the polished version of "killing it" leaves out How asking "Why not?" can lead to unexpected opportunities Why small, consistent effort is more powerful than perfection How vulnerability, curiosity, and genuine care make us better leaders Connect with Rich on LinkedIn Learn more at richbracken.com. Book Erin to speak Ready to modernize your culture, liberate your leadership, and differentiate your business without sounding like every other company on LinkedIn? Bring Erin Hatzikostas in to show your team how authenticity can become an actual strategic advantage, not just another corporate buzzword. Book Erin to Speak If you'd like quick tangible tips and practical corporate career advice to level up your authentic leadership, download the 10 simple "plays" to stop selling out and start standing out at https://bauthenticinc.mykajabi.com/freebie If you like jammin' with us on the podcast, b sure to join us for more fun and inspiration! Follow Erin on LinkedIn or Instagram Take our simple, fun and insightful "What's your workplace superhero name?" quiz Unleash your Authentic Superpower with Erin's book, You Do You-ish Throw out half the playbook and start competing in a league of your own. Check out Erin's book, The 50% Rule. Work with Us Or just buy some fun, authentic, kick-ars merch here To connect with Erin and/or Nicole, email: hello@bauthenticinc.com DISCLAIMER: This episode is not explicit, though contains mild swearing that may be unsuitable for younger audiences. Tweetable Comments "The feeling is data, too." "We all want to feel seen and heard and respected, so show that and you'll get it back." "If you put the other person first, everything else unfolds the way it should." "The best leaders I ever worked for or worked with were human beings. They were vulnerable, they were honest, and they cared." Editor's note: This transcript has been edited for clarity and length while preserving the substance and conversational tone of the original discussion. Erin Hatzikostas sits down with speaker, author, coach, and emotional intelligence expert Rich Bracken to talk about what success really looks like behind the scenes. They explore emotional intelligence, vulnerability, failure, leadership, consistent effort, Rich's "Theory of Why Not," and why some of the biggest opportunities in your career can start with simply being willing to take a chance. Success Is More Than a Metric Erin: I want to start by reading something from your book because this took my breath away. You wrote, "The most dangerous blind spot in change management isn't a missed metric. It's individual and group satisfaction. That's the left hook nobody sees coming. We get so obsessed with what we can measure that we stop paying attention to what we can't. The feeling is data, too." You talk about how we want everyone to believe everything is fine. We hit the number. It worked. We never heard no. Admitting that we came up short or something didn't work can feel like weakness, so we skip past it. We're much quicker to share our wins than our failures. And that instinct doesn't just apply to metrics. It applies to how we feel. We hide emotional shortcomings the same way we hide missed targets because vulnerability in either form feels like exposure. Rich: I think we need to chip away at this idea of perfection because, number one, it doesn't exist. Nobody is going to be perfect. Nothing is ever going to be perfect. The more people admit their failures, admit their shortcomings, or admit that something went wrong, the more honest we can be. I lost a contract the other day that was devastating to me. It was going to be huge for me. And the first thing I thought was, "I've got to talk to somebody about the failure." It's one thing to say everything is great and trucking along, but when those left hooks come, sometimes you need somebody to grab you and lift you off the ground. It's tough. Erin: I think this applies to people at every level of their careers. We get asked all these metric-driven questions. How many talks did you do? How much business did you bring in? What did you accomplish? My goal is two or three talks a month. That translates to around 30 talks a year, and I freaking love that. I don't necessarily want 100 talks a year. And when people ask how things are going, in general I'm like, "My life's fucking awesome." Not just because I'm hitting a number. My life in totality is great. We spend so much time talking about how many. Maybe we need to talk more about how it actually feels. What "Killing It" Really Looks Like Erin: Let's talk about "killing it," because when we met, we immediately started laughing about what people think success looks like versus what it actually looks like. What's an example of "killing it" for you? Rich: There are so many. If killing it looks like sorting through which airport sandwich is the least soggy because everything else is closed and I've missed three flights, then yes, I'm killing it. Does killing it look like sitting in front of my computer cursing because I can't find the last version of a presentation I worked on? Is killing it putting your PowerPoint into Google only to have your client download it and suddenly the font looks like Wingdings? That's the part people don't see. I love what I do. I wouldn't trade it for the world. But I think the closest comparison to a professional speaker's life is a touring musician. It's exhausting. You're traveling constantly. You're dealing with airports, weather, schedules, flights, hotels, and all of these things happening around the glamorous part people see. Erin: The facade is cool, though. Rich: Absolutely. And sometimes it really is cool. I'm about to speak in front of nearly 10,000 people. I have custom lighting. I have a walk-up video. There are going to be glow sticks, music, singing, dancing. It's going to look like I'm a rock star. But somebody asked me, "What are you going to do for the rest of the day?" I said, "I'm going back to my room, curling up in a ball, and not talking to anyone." That's what killing it looks like too. I know I'll walk off that stage on cloud nine, but I'll also be completely empty. I'll need to refuel. Erin: I have plenty of those stories too. Killing it was somebody reaching out to ask me to endorse a book, and then realizing they had confused me with the author of a completely different book. Killing it was getting what I thought was fan mail asking for my autograph six months after starting the podcast, then realizing somebody was probably trying to get my signature for fraud. Killing it was putting together footage for my speaker reel and discovering you could see my underwear when I turned around onstage. That's the behind-the-scenes version. Small Steps Can Change Your Entire Life Erin: One of the foundational stories in your life is losing more than 100 pounds. Tell us about that. Rich: I was a rail-thin kid and played sports year-round. Then I was diagnosed with exercise-induced asthma. I'm my parents' only child, so my mom basically said, "Stay inside, eat whatever you want, and play video games." I went from being outside constantly to being inside constantly, and I started putting on weight. By middle school I was the heavier kid, and I got teased quite a bit. Football became a saving grace because being bigger suddenly gave me an identity. I was an offensive lineman. I was the protector. I opened opportunities for the running backs and helped keep my friends safe. I eventually played a year of college football. Then I quit, and that identity disappeared. The eating habits stayed, but the workout habits went away. I got up to about 260 pounds. I fell into this really low self-esteem mindset. I didn't like what I saw in the mirror. I was miserable. Erin: Was there a specific moment that made you decide to change? Rich: It sounds silly, but I got tired of pulling my shirt away from my body. I was constantly adjusting it because I was afraid of my body showing. I was exhausted. I didn't have energy. I was depressed. I didn't want to do anything. I wasn't social. I finally had my diet analyzed, and everything was off the charts. Cholesterol, calories, fat, everything. My health instructor gave me something incredibly simple. He told me to replace certain foods with better options, eliminate fast food and carbonated drinks, and walk one mile a day. That was it. I didn't need to change everything overnight. I didn't need three hours of cardio or two hours in the gym. I just needed to do something small and see progress. Eventually I went from a 40-inch waist to trying on a pair of 34-inch pants in an Old Navy dressing room and screaming because they actually fit. Those moments taught me that I could change something huge by consistently doing small things. It transformed my life because I started to believe I could take on other things too. The Theory of Why Not Erin: That leads really naturally into something you call your "Theory of Why Not." What is it? Rich: I tell people all the time that I have the most ridiculous life résumé of anybody I've ever met. The things I've done, the people I've met, the situations I've put myself in, all of those experiences come back to the theory of why not. Why not give it a shot? Why not me? Why not try it? The worst you're going to hear is no. I don't ever want to die with all these ideas that might have been great, but I never acted on them. So many people are afraid to try because the possibility of failure exists. They don't want to say, "I want to do this thing," because what if it doesn't work? The Theory of Why Not is about getting out of your own head and getting out of your own way. I've been on several game shows. I've also missed several other ones because I took a chance on them and didn't get picked. I've had speaking opportunities, business opportunities, media opportunities, and all kinds of experiences. The ones people see are great. What we don't talk about are the dozens that didn't happen. The dozens of no's. The dozens of, "You're nice, but..." Those are the things we're terrified of. But I can say I've lived a very full life. If I went away tomorrow, I went for it. If you continually talk yourself out of opportunities, dreams, lofty goals, or ridiculous ideas, you'll never know what could have happened. Sometimes you have to ask, "Why not? What's the worst that could happen?" Taking a Chance With a Mix CD Erin: What's an early example of you living this way? Rich: When I was in graduate school, I had the opportunity to study in England. I was also DJing, and one of the top radio stations in the country happened to be about two blocks from where I lived. For those of you under 40, brace yourself. I took my mix CD to the radio station. I basically said, "I've loved the English music scene for years. It's one of the reasons I'm a DJ. I just want to know what you think. Am I any good? How do I stack up?" I told them, "If you hate it and never want to talk to me again, that's fine. At least I took the shot." Three days later, the station's marketing manager called me. She said, "You told me you have half-day Fridays and a rail pass, right?" I said yes. She said, "Great. We've booked you for six opening slots at different clubs around the country, opening for some huge DJs." All because I walked in and handed somebody a CD. I wasn't expecting that. I just wanted feedback. If I had never raised my hand, I never would have known. Some of the coolest things I've ever gotten to do happened because I was willing to take that kind of chance. Opening for Avicii and Going on Game Shows Rich: Another great example was auditioning to open for Avicii when he was one of the biggest DJs in the world. I was competing against people who were DJing regularly. I had a corporate job and was DJing on the side for fun. But I believed in my style. I believed in my energy. I believed I could earn that spot. So I auditioned. I got picked. I ended up opening for Avicii in Kansas City in front of thousands of people. It was phenomenal. That same mindset has led me to game shows, television, speaking, and writing a book. I was on $100,000 Pyramid. My partner was Von Miller, who had just won the Super Bowl and was the Super Bowl MVP. Usher was also there. He was a terrible game show teammate. Erin: Was he? Rich: Terrible. I was also on a reality show on ESPN, and I competed to host another television show. I made it to the final four and didn't get the job. But it was still an incredible experience. My ridiculous dream job is to host The Price Is Right someday. And the funny part is, because of one of the shows I was on, I'm now one degree of separation from that job. That alone is the Theory of Why Not. Erin: You're making me think I need to go on a game show. Rich: Why not? The Biggest Lesson Rich Learned From Being a DJ Erin: You DJed for a long time. Now you speak and coach executives, speakers, and professional athletes. What did being a DJ teach you that translates into what you do now? Rich: Two things. The first is self-awareness and self-confidence. People think DJing is just standing there pushing buttons and playing music, but there's an art to it. You're exposing yourself creatively. And if something goes wrong with the music, sound, or song choice, you can't hide. You're the person standing there controlling everything. Confidence, self-awareness, and believing in what you're creating matter. The second lesson is that it's not about you. One of my favorite pieces of advice is, "You're not more important than coffee." If an event has to choose between having coffee or having a keynote speaker, you're probably gone. They're picking coffee. Erin: They're definitely picking coffee. Rich: But the bigger point is this: whether you're a speaker, leader, salesperson, attorney, professional service provider, or anyone else, if you put the other person first, everything else unfolds the way it should. I've seen speakers go onstage and make the entire thing about themselves, their show, and their ego. It bombs. When somebody gets up there to truly engage the audience, help them, and serve them, people feel it. The same thing happens with DJs. And the same thing happens if you're pitching a client or running a team meeting. That's an audience too. If you show up with confidence in what you're doing, but your number-one priority is helping the people in front of you, that energy speaks for itself. You'll build better relationships and connect with people differently. Every Meeting Is a Stage Erin: That translates directly to people in traditional corporate roles too. You can walk into a board meeting, staff meeting, presentation, or one-on-one and feel that same stage fright. You start believing perfection is the game. But even if you're the person leading the meeting or walking everyone through the PowerPoint, it's not about you. How do you make the other people feel? How do you make sure they're engaged? Rich: Exactly. And it's hard to fake. People need to spend time off the stage thinking about what they do, why they do it, and how they help people. Your "stage" could be a boardroom. It could be a speaker stage. It could be a DJ booth. It could be whatever auditorium your profession puts you in. When you're serving people and helping people, you make them feel good, but you also feel better because there's meaning behind what you're doing. Behind the Successful Face Erin: You've coached CEOs, speakers, professional athletes, and even celebrities. What trips people up behind closed doors that might surprise us? Rich: Deep down, we're all a little insecure. We all second-guess ourselves. We all deal with some level of, "I don't know. I'm not sure. Why me? Can I do this?" People put their successful face on for the world, and we forget they're human. People get hurt. They fail. They get scared. I'll coach somebody who looks incredibly successful from the outside, and then behind the scenes they'll say, "I don't know," or, "I tried this and it didn't work, and it really hurt." I think one of the reasons I connect with people is that I treat everybody like a human being I care about. When you do that, you connect differently. When a relationship is transactional and you're clearly after something, people can smell it like a shark smells blood in the water. Serve people first. Reach out genuinely. Ask questions that show you actually give a damn about who they are as people. We all want to feel seen and heard and respected, so show that and you'll get it back. Consistency Beats Trying to Knock It Out of the Park Erin: You've kept the weight off for 27 years, so obviously consistency has been a huge part of your life. What do people misunderstand about consistent effort? Rich: We have this idea that every time we do something it has to be some knock-it-out-of-the-park experience. That's not accurate. Let's say you want to get back into working out. If you go stretch for three minutes, that's something. If you do a one-minute plank, that's something. If you walk for five minutes, that's success. That is consistency of effort. There are days I feel great. I'm working out, I'm listening to music, and everything clicks. There are other days when the last effing thing I want to do is lift a weight. If I do 10 minutes on one of those days, I can call it a success. At my level of energy and care in that moment, doing something is a win. I don't slay every workout. Sometimes I get up intending to work out and realize I'm not going to do it well. So instead of beating myself up, I shift my mindset and say, "Today I'm going to deal with whatever garbage is holding me back, and tomorrow I'm going to show up better." Erin: I think the other part of consistency is choosing the thing you're actually likely to do. People ask, "Should I ride a bike? Should I run? Should I walk? Should I lift weights?" Pick the thing you're most likely to keep doing. I was just talking to my son, who is trying to grow his speaking platform. He said he needed to figure out the marketing stuff. I gave him a bunch of options and then told him, "You have to pick the thing that actually excites you." All of these things can work, and all of them can fail. Pick the thing you're most likely to consistently do. The same applies to leadership. Leadership can feel like you're supposed to read 72 books and do 80 things every day. What if you picked one thing you were going to consistently do instead? The Best Leaders Are Still Human Rich: As people move up in organizations and take on more responsibility, they often become more visible, more guarded, and more concerned about the impact of their decisions. At the same time, there are so many corporate experts and thought leaders telling people how they're supposed to lead that we start thinking we need to show up like Simon Sinek, Mel Robbins, or somebody else every day. The best leaders I ever worked for or worked with were human beings. They were vulnerable. They were honest. And they cared. I've worked for great bosses, and I've worked for dumpster-fire bosses. The stark difference is that the great ones cared and stayed human. Read the books. Listen to the podcasts. Go to the seminars. But don't lose track of why you're doing what you're doing or what makes it meaningful and fun for you. Erin: I've joked that from a traditional Leadership 101 perspective, I'm probably a B-minus. I'm not a great planner. I might walk into a meeting without an agenda. I don't always package feedback perfectly. But I always felt like authenticity was this trump card. It didn't wipe away every mistake, but if you can set aside your ego, be honest, show humility, and genuinely care about people, that covers a lot. Being Good at the Job Does Not Automatically Make You a Good Leader Rich: One mistake organizations make is assuming, "This person is really good at the thing, so we should make them the leader of the thing." You're a great salesperson, so we make you a regional sales director. You're a great marketer, so we make you the chief marketing officer. That doesn't automatically mean you're going to be a great leader. Sometimes people don't even want the leadership job, but they feel guilty saying no because it comes with more money, credibility, or status. Organizations need to become better at identifying who actually wants to lead and who has the potential to do it well. And once you become a leader, the job changes. If you're a regional director of sales, you aren't primarily selling anymore. You're guiding and coaching other people to become better salespeople. It's literally a people job, not a thing job. I coached somebody once who kept saying, "I don't understand why they don't do this. I don't understand why they complain about that." And I said, "Ask them." Ask them why they're not motivated. Ask them what they need. You're their coach. The coach of a football team isn't running onto the field and playing with the seventh graders. The coach prepares them to play. That's what leaders do. It's about serving your people. And you have to remember that what worked for you may not work for everybody. Different people require different communication, different motivation, and different support. As a leader, you need to ask questions, become more socially aware, develop trust, and understand the nuance of each person on your team. When "Why Not?" Means Trusting Your Judgment Erin: We ask every guest about their "Buck That" moment. What's a time when you went against what was expected, felt a little uncomfortable doing it, but good things happened because of it? Rich: I was working at a law firm doing business development, and one of the attorneys and I identified a huge business opportunity. It was going to require some extra work and a little thinking outside the box, but we mapped out a path to make it happen. I went to my CMO and explained the idea. She said, "Absolutely not." She didn't ask a single question. Not, "Tell me more." Not, "What could we gain?" Not, "What would this take?" Just no. I was pissed because I felt like the idea had been dismissed without any curiosity. Now, I'll do crazy things and take chances, but I'm also calculated about it. I'm not reckless. I had really thought through this opportunity, and I believed it would work. So I did it anyway. I recruited a few people who were willing to help me after hours. We got the project finished ahead of the deadline and launched it. Eventually my CMO appeared in my doorway holding a printed copy of the email announcing the initiative I had been told not to do. She said, "What is this?" On the outside I was very apologetic. On the inside, I was thinking, "Ha." She was absolutely livid. But two things happened. The attorney I partnered with ended up getting national recognition in The Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg and became a recognized expert on the subject. Later, after I had left the firm, he called me. He had just signed the biggest deal in the firm's history. He told me, "I just want to thank you for sticking your neck out. You believed in me and you believed in this project." I'll never forget that. I'm not advocating complete rebellion. But sometimes you have to trust yourself enough to recognize that you've thought something through and you know what the right move is. Sometimes you need to do what's right for the business, but do it your way. Make Work Suck Less by Finding a Way to Have Fun Erin: Last question. What's one thing people can do to make work suck less? Rich: Find a way to have fun. Even if you're sitting there thinking, "I'm an accountant. How?" One of the things I do with audiences is build playlists together. Everybody scans a QR code and submits a song that makes them happy. The playlists are hilarious and amazing. Then I send the playlist back to the company and tell everybody to keep the link. When you need five minutes of happiness, five minutes of energy, or five minutes to shift your mood, go to the playlist and pick a song. It may not even be your song, but somebody you work with chose it because it makes them happy. Try something new. Take five minutes. Have the ridiculous singing and dancing party in your office or cubicle if that's what makes the day better. There is always a way to have more fun. You just have to figure out what that looks like for you. Erin: Why not? Rich: Exactly. Why not?

September 29, 2026 - Julie Brilley and Dr. Tricia Scerba, CMO and Pediatrician, joined Byers & Co to talk about the importance of serving the community with dignity and respect. Listen to the podcast now!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

September 29, 2026 - Dr. Tricia Scerba, CMO and Pediatrician, and Liz Buchanan, HealthySteps Manager at Crossing, join Byers & Co to talk about Crossing Kids, HealthySteps, and BabyTalk. Listen to the podcast now!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, Simon sits down with Sara Carty, Founder and CEO of Unboring, and Kelly Allen, Co-Founder and CMO of Unboring, a cybersecurity marketing agency focused on making sophisticated technology more distinctive, human, and memorable.Sara and Kelly share how they found their way into cybersecurity marketing and why they believe the industry has fallen into a “sea of sameness”—from blue branding and hoodies to technical jargon and fear-based messaging. They explore why cybersecurity companies often play it safe, the pressure marketers face to prove ROI, and how investor expectations can influence messaging and creativity.The conversation also dives into the importance of building a brand with personality, taking creative risks without becoming gimmicky, creating meaningful experiences at cybersecurity events, and developing clear positioning that helps the right customers understand exactly what a company stands for.Whether you're a cybersecurity founder, marketer, CMO, or business leader, this episode offers valuable insights into building a distinctive brand, communicating complex technology clearly, and creating marketing that people actually remember.Sara and Kelly's journeys into cybersecurity marketingWhy cybersecurity marketing has become a “sea of sameness”How unclear messaging creates friction in the buying journeyWhy copying successful competitors rarely creates a distinctive brandHow trends and buzzwords influence cybersecurity messagingWhy marketers need the freedom to take creative risksThe challenge of measuring creativity through ROIHow investor expectations can influence marketing decisionsWhen bold event marketing becomes a gimmickWhy everyone representing your company at an event should understand the productHow cybersecurity culture has evolved over the yearsWhy making technology more accessible can attract new talentHow to build a distinctive brand without losing authenticityWhy clear positioning and a focused target market can save time and marketing budgetTo learn more about Sara Carty, please visit her LinkedIn profileTo learn more about Kelly Allen, please visit her LinkedIn profileTo learn more about Unboring, please visit her website.YOUR HOST - SIMON LADER    Simon Lader is the host of The Conference Room, Co-Founder of global executive search firm Salisi Human Capital, and lead generation consultancy Flow and Scale. Since 1997, Simon has helped cybersecurity vendors to build highly effective teams, and since 2022, he has helped people create consistent revenue through consistent lead generation. Get to know more about Simon at:    Website: https://simonlader.com/  Twitter: https://twitter.com/simonlader  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/headhuntersimonlader/    The Conference Room is available onSpotifyApple podcastsAmazon MusicIHeartRadio

In this episode, we explore the essential power of learning as disruption accelerates across creative industries. We unpack stories of transformation, grit, and reinvention from two very different worlds: Kip Bodnar, CMO at HubSpot and author of "Loop," and Tim Leatherman, inventor of the iconic multitool. While the tools and timelines look different, the winning mindset—learning your way through—remains the same.We dive into how Kip and his team at HubSpot faced the loss of 140 million visits in a single year, responded to a rapidly shifting marketing landscape, and used necessity as the mother of innovation. Meanwhile, Tim Leatherman reveals the lessons behind an eight-year journey from rejected prototypes to a product now in over 90 million pockets.From practical discussions about the new "loop" in marketing to the irreplaceable value of taste and human judgment in the AI era, and from bootstrapping a business in a garage to building with unshakable principles, this conversation offers sharp reminders for leaders ready to reframe hurdles as the real work.Discussed In This Episode:Loop: How to Build a Brand That Outlasts Rapid Change by Kip BodnarFind out more at LoopMarketing.comHubSpot – Insights into transforming marketing in the AI eraLearn more at HubSpot.comThe Leatherman Book by Tim LeathermanAvailable wherever books are soldDaily Creative Plus – Get all full interviews and bonus content for freeJoin at DailyCreativePlus.comTodd Henry's books and speaking infoFive Key Learnings From the EpisodeSpeed of Learning Trumps Resources. Wilbur and Orville Wright beat well-funded rivals by learning faster—testing, challenging assumptions, and iterating relentlessly. Both Kip Bodnar and Tim Leatherman embodied this: the hurdles weren't detours, they were the work.The Marketing Funnel Is Now a Loop. Traditional marketing funnels are obsolete. AI and fragmented channels have turned the path to purchase into an hourglass-shaped loop, where creating relevance at every touchpoint and rapid iteration are the only real advantages.Human Taste Is a Strategic Advantage. While AI can scale creative output and tailor messaging at a mind-bending pace, the role of taste—refined, context-rich, deeply human judgment—has never been more essential. “Brain first, tool second” is the only way to unlock AI's upside without commoditizing your value.Principles as Competitive Advantage. Tim Leatherman explained how adhering to core principles—like building in Portland for quality and community—isn't inefficient, but a long-game differentiator. Guardrails keep teams focused and create compounding trust.Every Hurdle Is a Skill to Be Learned. The difference between a door and a wall is often mindset. Both guests highlight: when disruption comes, don't wait and see—ask, “What do I need to learn next?” and treat each hurdle as an intrinsic part of the process.Bring Todd Henry to speak to your team or event at ToddHenry.com/speakingSee Todd Henry's books at ToddHenry.com/booksGet full interviews and bonus content for free! Just join the list at DailyCreativePlus.com.Mentioned in this episode:New Keynote & Workshop: The Infinite LeverEvery leader I talk with is asking some version of the same question right now: What happens to my people as AI absorbs more of the work? That question is why I built a new keynote and workshop called The Infinite Lever. It's about the human capacities that get more valuable in an AI world, not less, and how to develop them on purpose before the window closes. If you're planning an event this year, visit toddhenry.com/speaking.Apply for Creative Leader Roundtable Leading creative people is rewarding, but it can also feel isolating. That's why I've started Creative Leader Roundtable, a private community where leaders like you connect monthly to get practical insights, honest feedback, and real encouragement. You'll leave every round table with fresh perspective and tactical ideas. You can apply right away. So if you lead a team of talented people, go check us out at CreativeLeader.net, because creative work deserves brave leadership.

CJ sits down with Lauren Dillard, CFO of LiveRamp, whose path to the CFO seat ran through investor relations, communications, and even a year as interim CMO. They dig into why storytelling and influence matter as much as technical finance chops, how LiveRamp tore down and rebuilt its entire commercial model — collapsing 25+ usage metrics into 5 and inventing the "token" along the way.—SPONSORS:Brex is an intelligent finance platform that combines corporate cards, built-in expense management, and AI agents to eliminate manual finance work. By automating expense reviews and reconciliations, Brex gives CFOs more time for the high-impact work that drives growth. Join 35,000+ companies like Anthropic, Coinbase, and DoorDash at https://www.brex.com/metricsAnrok is the sales tax platform that watches your exposure everywhere, automates compliance, and flags risk before it turns into a surprise back-tax letter from a state you've never set foot in. Companies like Anthropic, Notion, and Vanta already trust Anrok to stay ahead of rules that move faster than any spreadsheet can. Talk to a sales tax expert for a personalized exposure estimate at https://www.anrok.com/rtnRightRev is a revenue recognition platform built for the AI economy, helping finance support usage-based pricing, credits, hybrid contracts, seats plus consumption, and whatever commercial model comes next. It gives product teams the freedom to keep innovating without outdated revenue systems slowing them down. Learn how RightRev can help at https://rightrev.com/cjPulley is an equity management platform that lets you issue options, model dilution, and complete 409As without your cap table turning into a spreadsheet disaster. Founders raising, hiring, and scaling use Pulley to keep equity clean and stay focused on building. Learn more or request a demo at https://pulley.com/mostlymetricsRillet is an AI-native ERP built for modern finance teams that want to replace NetSuite and close faster. With revenue recognition, close management, multi-entity support, and native Stripe and Salesforce integrations, Rillet helps scaling companies run their finance stack in one place. Hundreds of teams, including Windsurf and Mercor, use Rillet to make the zero-day close real. Book a demo at https://www.rillet.com/cjMaximor is an autonomous finance platform that runs order-to-cash, procure-to-pay, the close, cash management, and reporting on self-learning agents instead of a dozen disconnected tools. One PE-backed customer posts 98% of transactions directly to its ERP, with the remaining 2% routed to a human for review. You pay for outcomes, not seats. See it at https://www.maximor.ai/EY works with high-growth tech companies to navigate the messy realities of scaling—from regulatory requirements to IPO readiness. By helping teams get it right early and often, EY lets founders stay focused on building while reducing risk as they grow. Learn more at https://www.ey.com/techstartups—LINKS: Mostly Talent: https://mostlymetrics.typeform.com/to/cLTxtAsNGuest: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-russi-dillard-25502424/Company: https://www.liveramp.comCJ: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948/Mostly metrics: https://www.mostlymetrics.com—TIMESTAMPS:0:00 Cold Open1:18 Intro1:29 Meet Lauren Dillard4:48 Lauren's Path to CFO5:06 The "Wrong" Career Move7:48 Why Storytelling Matters9:41 Turning the Answer Into Action10:33 People Plus AI14:50 Pricing Is a Strategy Exercise16:43 Rebuilding a Commercial Model22:29 Simplifying Quote-to-Cash23:29 Where the "Token" Came From28:48 Selling a New Pricing Model29:27 Balancing New Logos30:17 Upmarket or Downmarket?34:17 Where Finance and HR Disagree36:07 The Biggest Mistake38:23 Will It Make the Boat Go Faster?42:27 Lessons from the NBA44:25 Lauren's Biggest Misstep46:27 Finance Tech Stack47:42 Craziest Expense#RunTheNumbersPodcast #AIforCFOs #FinanceLeadership #MasterworksArt #ContextEngineering

What if your AI strategy is creating more risk than progress? John Willis joins Andrew Stotz to trace how Deming's System of Profound Knowledge shaped the way he thinks about organizations, learning, and change. From his early days building DevOps to the AI transformations he's navigating with CIOs today. Along the way, John connects Deming to fast feedback loops, explains why leaders keep mistaking a learning problem for a technology problem, and shares stories that never made it into his book, Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge.   A fresh conversation for longtime Deming thinkers and those just beginning the journey.   TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.0 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today I'm here with featured guest, John Willis. John, how are you doing?   0:00:15.7 John Willis: Great, Andrew. I was just thinking, I feel like that song, like I got my picture on the cover of Rolling Stone. Like, I'm on the Deming Institute podcast. Yay.   [laughter]   0:00:24.9 Andrew Stotz: We finally got you on.   0:00:27.8 John Willis: Yeah, yeah.   0:00:30.3 Andrew Stotz: Actually been a while and I wanna introduce you just briefly and then I'll let you do a little bit more of the introduction. But basically on Amazon, a book popped up and I was just looking at the date of that. That book popped up on, for me, it popped up on September 6, 2023 on Audible and I immediately bought it and I got the Audible book and the book's called 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge. How Deming Helped Win a War, Altered the Face of Industry, and Holds the Key to Our Future'. And I immediately got it. Didn't know you, listened to it, loved it. Later you reached out on LinkedIn and we started communicating and you were kind enough to send a copy of it, which I then went through in more detail. I love the book. I really highly recommend the Audible version because it's just fun. Because the book is opening up a whole new Deming lens, a whole new way from somebody that never met Deming, and I just found that fascinating. So maybe why don't you take a moment and introduce yourself to the audience so that people know who you are, where you've been, what you've been doing and what you're doing now?   0:01:41.4 John Willis: Yeah, no, no, great. I... So, yeah, I... I've been doing technology, usually high consequence business, regulated industry, banks, retail, the biggest of the bigs, where the technology is incredibly important. Right? And I've been doing five decades of basic technology transformations, and I'm kind of the person who gets bored real easy. So I've literally gone through, like, you name it, mainframe, centralized computing, client server, distributed computing, priority systems, the Linux Open systems, you know, owned infrastructure cloud, and I'm consider one of the founders of the DevOps movement. And now today, like the cliché that I am, I've been doing a lot of organizational strategy on AI. So I don't come in and tell you how to turn 4,000 developers into AI coders. I kind of tell your CIOs to slow down. Wait a minute. So, yeah, so my day job today is I'm... I think these days finally in my life I would call myself an author first. I've written a number of books. The one you did, I had... My last book was a history of 100 history, 100 Year History of AI. And... But I'm an advisor, so I sort of... I take inbounds. I don't really look for work. Usually it's a chief of staff for a CIO who either has worked with me in the past and hey John, we're underwater with AI. Can you come in? Or they hear something I've said or I do a lot of podcasts and then I'm sort of a quasi investor. Although I probably should listen to your stuff a little better because I'm typically... I'm one of those guys that like, if I invest in it, you go short on it right away. So... [laughter] But yeah. But, yeah, no, so... But my day job today is really, is doing research. I'm actually just sure, this probably opened up a whole another discussion. Maybe later but I'm writing a book about the history of quantum computing right now and that's been just fascinating. So...   0:03:41.7 Andrew Stotz: Yeah.   0:03:41.8 John Willis: But my day job is helping CIOs and large high consequence organizations try to shuffle through technology transformations.   0:03:50.7 Andrew Stotz: And for the audience there that didn't catch what you were saying at the beginning, it kind of dated you because you were talking about the song called Rolling Stone by Dr. Hook.   0:03:59.9 John Willis: Yeah, yeah, totally.   0:04:01.3 Andrew Stotz: Dr. Hook published this in about 1972. And here are the lyrics. "Wanna see my picture on the cover? Wanna buy five copies for my mother? Wanna see my smiling face on the cover of Rolling Stone?" So here...   0:04:12.8 John Willis: Totally. Yeah. There you go. Deming Institute. Yeah, no, great.   0:04:16.7 Andrew Stotz: And one of the things that I found fascinating was just how you came to Deming from a very different angle. I was lucky enough that my boss at Pepsi sent me to study with him and I did two different seminars. The last one was in 1992. So I was 24, he was 92, was gonna live about one more year. I had... I could literally reach out and touch the man and hold his hand and sit next to him. I got a great picture of me sitting next to him. And I was just a young guy with a fresh mind compared to the 500 guys behind me that were older that he was bashing at times. But tell us a little bit about how you stumbled upon this topic and why you decided to do what you did with writing the book?   0:05:03.7 John Willis: Yeah, no, it's sort of interesting. I sort of say that for the first, I don't know, probably from 1980, my first job was running five distributed large computer systems for Exxon Research and Production, basically the geophysics work, right, during the most hottest period of the oil industry. And there were people doing that part of variation and understanding, but that didn't sort of hit my world. I was supporting geophysical processing and then so I rolled into other jobs. And then probably the closest I came... So in other words, I'm dealing with a lot of these major transformations and always focusing on the meta side, like the organizational. What are the things that are wrong? How do we fix the human and technology? There's a phrase called sociotechnical systems, right? And that's always where I've been most interested. And then even I was at GE Capital and I'll say this with all honesty, I was a Green Belt, but they gave out Green Belts for Six Sigma, [laughter] right? My wife was actually a Black Belt. And... But we would do... And I know Deming hated Six Sigma and all that, but we were doing... It was all around me, right? And then it wasn't until really the DevOps age that we really... That was a major shift in my career because before everything was sort of first generational from a technology or sociotechnical system, very command control, you sort of you installed software in a certain way. There were so many principles that were being broken by DevOps. And I was already an older guy at that point, but I was learning from these young kids and I'm known as the person who introduced DevOps to the US.   0:06:52.3 John Willis: And... But so there is where we started going back and understanding... We thought everything was new. We were creating DevOps, we were doing all this crazy awesome stuff. And I remember a friend of mine, well, a good friend of mine wrote a book called 'The Phoenix Project' by Gene Kim and it's a rewrite of Eliyahu Goldratt's 'The Goal'. And I was like, oh my God. And I read all of Goldratt's books and I was like, okay, this is the way, this is the way. I've seen a glimpse of some 30 or 40 year knowledge that I was missing. And then it was an open space seminar. A good friend of mine says, "John, you know." and I'm going off about Goldratt and he's like, "You know this all goes back to Deming." I'm like, "Who's Deming?" I'm like, "I just spent a year learning everything I could about Goldratt. He is my North Star. And now you're telling me..." And he challenged me. He said, "John, I'll leave it at this. You go read Deming's 14 Points and if you don't... I know you. I know what you're gonna do once you do that." And he was spot on. That was it. I was... And I don't... I'm more into the Profound Knowledge and we could talk a little bit about my journey there. But I was like, oh my goodness, this is the real and I love Eliyahu Goldratt and I love 'The Goal' and I love all his books. But Deming was hitting... Was like punching me right square in the face.   0:08:12.0 Andrew Stotz: So to what gap did it close for you? I mean, Goldratt is very specific about the main limiting point...   0:08:23.2 John Willis: Yeah.   0:08:23.3 Andrew Stotz: The bottleneck, how do we solve this?   0:08:25.6 John Willis: So the 14 Points, sort of one of the jokes is that it's mandatory to put the 14 Points in a DevOps presentation. So we were doing that dance a little bit, but then when I got a little serious about it, actually me and Gene Kim, we did a book. Goldratt has this book called 'Beyond the Goal'. It's an audio-only book, right? And I convinced Gene about five years after he had written 'The Phoenix Project' to do a Beyond the Phoenix Project. And so he did Goldratt, I did Deming. And at that point, I knew enough about Deming to say, "Okay let's..." And then we talked about DevOps and the principles of Lean and we did... I always, when somebody says they bought that audiobook, I'm like, "Oh, you're the 15th person that bought it." right? But it sold more than that. But the... But that's when Gene tapped me on the shoulder and did that. We went to the studio. It was a highlight of my life, literally going to the studio with Gene and literally recording for a couple of weeks. And he's like, "John, you really need to write a book about Dr. Deming." And then I started building a folder. And then the crash course then or the trajectory at that point not really crash course is that you realize the 14 Points are, no disrespect, but vaguely interesting. You're like, "Okay, Mount Everest is System of Profound Knowledge." Right? Because that's the mount... And that's the one where you're like, "Okay, I read 'Out of the Crisis', I think I get it, the 14 Points make sense, but like, what is this stuff he's talking about here?" Right? And then you read 'New Economics' and it's like, "I still..." And then, so for me then, it was, I'm just one of these person like I have... And again, I'm not trying to make myself look like I'm special, but I have to learn. I can't... I'm the worst person in a... If I was in your class, you'd kick me out of your class because I'd be sitting in the front row and you'd be, "Oh no, not you again."   0:09:26.2 Andrew Stotz: Another question.   0:10:26.9 John Willis: Yeah I know just another question. I mean, I've been cut off by professors and... But the... I'm like, "All right, I got to get to the bottom of this." And that was almost a 10-year journey for me of... I had to know. Because it was clear to me that Profound Knowledge or System of Profound Knowledge was not something he invented out of thin air. Like, I had to figure out, where did he get this? And that started the genesis of how I was gonna write the book, which is the journey, 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge'. And that sort of took me into... And what that did, while I was learning that, of course, Deming opened the door to guys like Russell Ackoff and Ashby and just all these other sort of management thinkers and even Drucker or whatever, right? They all sort of started filling out a palette. But meanwhile, I'm still driving hard on Deming. And what that gentleman said to me, good friend of mine, Ben Rockwood, who I give tribute in the book, is when he said to me, almost like tapped me on the head, like, "John, John, John, it all goes back to Deming." Like, you start seeing the clarity of DevOps, Lean, Agile, it all had these things. And so I spent literally a long time really trying to figure out, okay, how did Deming get... We all know variation is relatively simple to understand where he got that from, right? Shewhart's work and all that stuff. And I'm not trivializing the impact of what he did for it, but knowledge was interesting. And knowledge I had to go to pragmatism. You had to understand what C.I. Lewis is. And that's a book that Deming said he had to read seven times.   0:12:03.1 Andrew Stotz: He had to read it seven times...there's no hope for me.   [overlapping conversation]   0:12:05.2 John Willis: That's right. No, actually I did Tom Sawyer. I have a friend who's one of the smartest people I know. He's like, "I'll read that." And he explained it to me. But and then I read it. But so knowledge, this sort of, how do we understand? How do we know what we think we really know, right? That whole epistemology and all that. To me, this is like sort of, just give me more, right? And see more and feed me. And then system thinking was interesting, appreciation for system, because then that got me back to, okay, and there was some missing links there. And I found that one of the guys who came up with General Systems Theory, von Bertalanffy, him and yeah, Ackoff. Him and Ackoff had sat in a seminar of his like in the '40s and so there was some influence there. And there's a lot of work that's been going on in systems thinking after him. But so then I got that and then the psychology is tough, right? But so I put all that together. And then my... The thing I was telling you earlier is, when I do the research for a project like this, I read everything that there is about it. So my AI book, I read 25 books on AI, history of AI. I'm up to like 10 books on the history of quantum computing.   0:13:23.4 John Willis: With Deming, I've read every book that's been written by Deming, at least the ones that I know of, right? And one of the things I noticed, the pattern was that they all... Again, I'm just simplifying it. They all started off with a little bit about the biography, some a little longer than others, but in general, most of the book was about the management theory. And it was really a book that was being sold as a business book more than it was as a biography. And one of the things I've always loved about Michael Lewis or that sort of story of nonfiction storytelling is he tells a biography, it's a disguised biography and I thought, my God this... And as I kept compiling over the years all these great stories, you know, the Doris Quinn story, right? The woman who, she went to New Guinea and Deming... Spent the last two years of her life with Deming. I mean, most of the people that are Deming disciples didn't even know about this woman. And she spent the last two years of life traveling with him. So I met her and interviewed her. And the stories, you know Hawthorne, and there was such... It wasn't just that, I love the idea of trying to explain how he got to management theory and epistemology, how did he get to the science of variation? That's all good stuff. But I wanted the stories, and the stories were just glorious. As you enjoyed the book, right?   0:14:52.4 Andrew Stotz: Yeah.   0:14:53.3 John Willis: I think that was the fun part of not just explaining the sort of tech, if you will, but it was the, like the, oh my God, this... I've got to... I had three chapters like six years before I wrote the book.   0:15:06.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Well, here's chapter 15. And you say, "Being a student of Deming, I came across an untold firsthand account of a beautiful story from one of his acolytes, a woman named Doris Quinn," who you're talking about.   0:15:20.0 John Willis: Yeah. Yeah.   0:15:20.2 Andrew Stotz: And... But the... I also had marked a section related to talking about the final days, saying...   0:15:29.7 John Willis: Yeah.   0:15:29.8 Andrew Stotz: "Doris said he was a very, very driven man. He went nonstop. I remember one time we were in Kansas City and a reporter asked him, "Dr. Deming, when are you going to retire?" And the master said, "Why would I do that?" "Well, so you can do what you want." the reporter said."   0:15:45.7 John Willis: Yeah, yeah, yeah.   0:15:46.4 Andrew Stotz: "Dr. Deming looked at him and said, "I am doing what I want."   0:15:50.2 John Willis: Yeah. You know what I love about her? There's a really good book from Amazon called 'Working Backwards'. And they tell us... The guys who wrote it were pretty high up early on in Amazon. They tell the story how if they traveled with Bezos and you didn't have a whole set of questions on the plane ride, you got in trouble. And so Doris Quinn tells that story, how she literally, she tells the story of how she traveled with him and he's like, "Doris, what other questions do you have for me?" And if she didn't have one, he'd get mad at her. He wouldn't talk to her. They'd have to wait a day because normally they'd go and have gin together. But if she didn't have questions... And some of it's in the book, some of it was in conversations had... He'd literally get mad at her and not talk to her for the rest of the day [laughter] because she didn't have any questions. You got to love that, right?   0:16:39.2 Andrew Stotz: And you also did a little follow-on about more stories that you didn't get in the book, I believe.   0:16:48.1 John Willis: Yeah. Yeah.   0:16:48.2 Andrew Stotz: Tell us about that.   0:16:50.1 John Willis: Well, so I wrote the DevOps Handbook, right? And that was a collaboration with four other authors and took us six years to write it. So my wife says, "What parts did you write?" I'm like, I don't know, man. There were a lot of parts that went in and out and moved around when you have four authors, and it was really a very techie book. So 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge' was really the first book where I literally... It was my book. And so I had written the book. In fact, my favorite story, and Doris Quinn is a great story, my favorite one was... It was basically called The Devil Wears Prada. And so, and Kevin... I don't think Kevin, his mother even knew this when we were talking that his grandmother literally was... I mean, I think they knew that she worked for the pre-BLS, she was a statistical mathematician and all that.   0:17:45.3 Andrew Stotz: Right.   0:17:45.4 John Willis: But after the war, she worked before she... I don't know if she met Deming, but she certainly wasn't married to him, Dr. Deming. She worked on the mail-order business was getting all these returns for women's sizing. And so whatever the pre-BLS was, Bureau of Labor Statistics, commissioned her to do a study. And she's the one who invented women's sizings. Because before, they didn't really have all the different measurements. So she ran a whole statistical study. And so today... So I use the whole story of the Anne Hathaway, the 14 is the new seven and all. So I start that off. Anyway, so I go to my publisher and my editor, who I love, she'd already knocked out a lot of stories, but this is the one where, "You're not taking this story from me. You're not... This one is not." And then she's so good, she'll be like, "John, let me ask you this. Does it fit the arc?" By this point, she understands System of Profound Knowledge, she's read my book quite a bit, and she says, "Does it fit the arc of System of Profound Knowledge?" "Uh, I hate you." And I took it out. And then she said, "Well, why don't you make a blog post out of it?" And I'm like, "Oh, no. I'm gonna make another book." And I took all the stories we cut out and I called them Profound Stories. And yeah, so...   0:19:06.6 Andrew Stotz: And for the listeners and viewers, you can get it on Kindle and then you can read the stories. And I think for the Deming community, that's one of the best parts about this whole thing, is just there's no great collection of stories that has an arc to it, as you said. So I enjoy that. I wanna also... It'd be interesting to understand how your thinking has progressed about Deming, because obviously you talk about this introduction phase where you got to know him, then you have this intense phase that you seem to have a knack for, then you write the book, you have all the excitement about that, but you're on to other things.   0:19:46.8 John Willis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   0:19:46.9 Andrew Stotz: And there are remnants of Deming that remain with you, but there's others that have fallen by the wayside. Maybe they're not as critical as you may have thought or... I'm just curious, how does the Deming thinking unfold in your life now?   0:19:59.7 John Willis: I... It's become sort of a fabric. So, and I wanna get back to that, but I do wanna say one thing... I'm so... Whenever somebody tells me the story that they met Deming, I have two reactions. One is the hair on my skin, my arms go up thinking, "Oh, I wish that was me." But then the other one is like, I'm sure he would have yelled at me and got mad at me. Because he would basically be like, "That's a stupid question, Mr. Willis." So I have this fantasy of which way it would go. But anyway. Yeah, the question around what do I think now? I think, so if you go back to the narrative, he... And it's hard not to be a sycophant of Deming, right? But I am a sycophant of Deming, but I try not to be. And... But even in the book, I tried not to be a sycophant, right? I went out of my way. But so when I say this, Deming was in my DNA before I even knew who he was, right? Like at Exxon, at GE Capital, the Six Sigma stuff. And again, I understand for people listening, oh, the Six Sigma went the wrong direction, but it originally was stemmed from a lot of his ideas. And so it was there. So it was sort of foundational, and he was the lighthouse to put it in... And then System of Profound Knowledge became the taxonomy for me for this stuff that was in my DNA. And so in one way, there is this thing where you move on to a new transformation. And we're in one right now. We've been in one. I've been in one for five years now, which is with the AI. And again, same thing for me is it's not about the AI, it's organizational behavior, organizational patterns, what is the sociotechnical science behind how do you do these things?   0:21:48.4 John Willis: But so you forget... I always say technology shifts are like fluorescence. People use the metaphor of like spring and winter, like AI winter, AI spring, and they've used it for other things than AI. And that's sort of like a rebirth. The fluorescence is good because it's like an energy. It's always rolling forward. It just gets a fluorescence bright glow periodically. And so what the problem with the metaphor works for me because the energy is there, and the energy are the patterns that are consistent. The fluorescence is the blinding effect. So back to like, did anything fall off the wayside with Deming? Yes, for a little bit. Because in 20... Basically I started playing with the early versions of GPT, the OpenAI models, back at version two, and that was like around 2020, right? Even before ChatGPT, right? So that whole experience before we started even thinking about what this was gonna look like at a large-scale bank was fluorescence. Like I'm not thinking anything about Deming from 2020 to 2023. In 2023, 2024, I start getting asked to come into some of my larger clients. And I'm following it too, and I'm sort of... I'm starting to become aware that this is becoming... In fact, I'm pretty sure in the grand scheme of things that don't matter in the grand scheme, I'm pretty sure I got first use on shadow AI, in an article I wrote in like 2022 or 2021, right?   0:23:27.2 John Willis: So I had already been recognizing there's a problem pattern here. We got the shadow IT with the cloud stuff, now the shadow AI, and I could see this steamrolling happening so... And then I started getting called in organizations, and then I still was the wayside of the Deming. Like, I didn't walk in going, "Hey, I'm gonna hit the punching bag with Deming." I was coming in trying to figure out what do I know about patterns with this fluorescence metaphor that are new and shiny, and what are the things that are old that have been relevant for the five decades and the six transform... At least six transformations I've been through that are common in everyone. And I started seeing that. And then what was funny, as I'd be writing and researching with AI, it knew so much about me that even as early as like 2024, I had loaded in my Deming book. In fact, one of the ways I learned AI is I took the 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge' and I turned it into an augmented general retrieval, or what they call RAG database. So I learned a lot about AI because I knew what my book was, and I could validate what was hallucinations.   0:24:36.3 John Willis: Anyway, but it knew enough about me. And then what it would periodically do, it would say, "Would you like Deming's version of this?" I'm like, "Yeah, I would love that." And then I... It started refreshing my memory of what the real context going back to my friend Ben Rockwood, it all goes back to Deming. And so now it's actually on the... It's more than ever, it's on the forefront because I'm being brought into major brand organizations that are seemingly failing on AI at the institutional, organizational level. And there's not a line of these people. In fact, most of them don't wanna talk to me because they don't wanna hear what I got to say, which is slow down. And I'm okay with the ones that don't wanna hear that because I don't really wanna work with them anyway. But now I'm seeing with absolute clarity two things. One is it all goes back to Deming, and all the problems that we're seeing can be classified in Profound Knowledge.   0:25:37.1 Andrew Stotz: Tell us more about that. Because for those people that... There's so many different components. When I got introduced to Deming, it was the 14 Points, 'Out of the Crisis'. And then I left America in 1992, so I wasn't there for 'New Economics'. And it... And I did other stuff for 20 years, 15 years, and then I found New Economics. It's like, "Wow, this is different from that."   0:25:53.1 John Willis: Yeah.   0:26:09.1 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, so between the deadly diseases, the 14 Points, the System of Profound Knowledge, there's so many parts to this.   0:26:15.9 John Willis: No, I've got... Yeah, I definitely got. And I'll tie it right back to the... In 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge', I tell the story of Knight Capital. And Knight Capital is an interesting... It was the second highest high-frequency trading, black box, latency arbitrage on the NYSE. A sysadmin made a configuration error. They lost $450 million and don't quote me on the exact numbers, but like 450 million in 45 minutes. They were arbitraged at billions of dollars. They were literally out of business with a cease and desist from the SEC. And I always tell people, like, that's the last thing you want if you have a business is a cease and desist from the SEC, right? And at that point, we would say things like the consequences are high on how you think about humans and technology. Well, guess what, sports fans? Knight Capital is a drop in the bucket of what we're gonna start seeing with AI. We are going to see these... And there's the Equifax breach, there's all the... We're gonna see non-survival. I mean, Knight Capital didn't survive. Equifax lost five billion market cap in a week and then recovered all of it, right? But I'm saying there's been some major brand recognition problems pre-AI. You're not going to be able to survive these with the power...   [overlapping conversation]   0:27:41.7 Andrew Stotz: Abilities are gonna be shaken out.   0:27:43.6 John Willis: Yeah. I mean, and the brand damage. Brand damage by the escape routes of how... I mean, let me just step and I wanna go back to answer your question. But one of the things that people don't recognize right now is the machine that we have now has infinite knowledge at machine speed, and it's probabilistic. I mean, just add those three things up, that it has the ability of infinite knowledge, something no human could even close to. So it'll make decisions, it will escape, it will figure ways out, it will try a clever way to do something that probably no human would do that could be a disaster. Right? So the consequences are incredibly high. So then now, okay, let's really dust off: it all goes back to Deming's stuff. And so to your question, I think that I would love to see, like, you write a fantasy novel about how Deming came back to the future and was sitting here listening to what was going on, and he'd be screaming. He'd be telling everybody... And this is the thing I'm... I don't scream, I'm too old these days, but like, I literally cut off a CIO real quick in my conversation. I interview a CIO, they think they're interviewing me, I'm interviewing them. And if I'm like, "Yeah, no, you know what? This isn't right." "Well, what do you mean, John? We had..." "No, no, no."   0:29:09.1 John Willis: Because I can see right away that what the CIO or the leadership is... They think AI is a technology transformation. It's an organizational learning transformation. Deming would see this and scream this out loud. And that's the part of the blinding fluorescence that we're missing. We should know this by now, right? And so all these technology shifts, they think they're technology revolutions. They're really... I mean, they go back to the basics. What are the systems are they changing? Are we understanding what variation is? How do people learn? Are people not learning? Are people... A good example is, in every organization that I travel and this has been true for almost every technology transformation, but now it's glaring. I like to simplify. I say there's three groups. Let's take AI, right? Three groups in an organization. And usually, again, I don't care about really start-ups. I do care about startups from an investment standpoint, but I don't care about them from my day job. And so this is a bank or a large retail or insurance company or manufacturing. And so the CIO is like, "We have an AI strategy." And by the way, let me step one more thing, we learned a lot in the DevOps revolution, but DevOps was never a board-level conversation and it was never a Wall Street conversation.   0:30:37.1 John Willis: AI was immediately a board-level conversation. And so the pressure on a C-level, a CEO and a CIO, is "You must do AI yesterday.", right? And so now what's happening is the CIOs are literally doing knee-jerk reactions of like, "We're gonna have... We got 30,000 employees. If we can get all 30,000 employees using AI with a 3x productivity rating, we'll have..." you know, like, oh my God. And then they say, "Make it so." And I call this the strategy versus talent systems gap. And I don't mean how talented they are, I mean understanding what your talent system looks like. And to keep it simple, most talent systems look like this, they have one group that is passive-aggressive. They don't like change. They've been doing the same job forever. In this new world, they don't believe AI works, and they're passive-aggressive about it because they know they can't say they don't want it. When the CIO says, "We must do AI." they have to go, "Oh, we'll get to it next month. Next month. We'll get to it next month." And then you have the second group in the middle. They wanna do the right thing, but they're high enough... As we know, if you work for a bank and you're in a high enough position, if something really goes wrong, you're lucky if you get fired. You could get a fine for two times your salary, or you could actually go to jail.   0:32:02.3 Andrew Stotz: Right.   0:32:02.4 John Willis: Right? So that group is like, "I wanna use this, but you're not clear. There's no clarity from your... You guys all wanna do all this...   [overlapping conversation]   0:32:11.7 Andrew Stotz: There's risks everywhere.   0:32:13.3 John Willis: But we've got the OCC and there's no clarity on FDIC and like, what does this mean?" "Well, I don't know." "Well, then I'm not touching this stuff. And do you have my back?" No. Right? And then the third group is the classic, do now, ask forgiveness later group. And so you could put this all back to driving out fear. Because what happens is you've got a strategy. What is that, it's number eight, I think. I think that's right, but it doesn't matter, right? It could be nine, it could be seven in the 14 Points. So the CIO has said, "This must happen." And then, again, board-level, horizontal, vertical pressures. And then everybody's... And they're not even understanding, do they have the capability? Do people wanna do it? Does the middle group even understand the clarity? And so the first thing that you should be doing is, in the clearest sense is driving out fear. So the do now, ask forgiveness laters are fear that if they don't do it, they won't be the leaders. The middle group is pretty clear what their fear is, you don't give them clarity of what they can and can't do. And the third group is fear of changing, losing their job, "AI is gonna replace me." So that's all a spectrum of understanding fear at the human level. And so maybe that is one of the first things you should address before you actually set a grand strategy. And we know Deming has a lot of thoughts about this, and then we break into sort of like...   0:33:48.6 Andrew Stotz: Okay, so let's stop at that.   0:33:50.1 John Willis: Yeah. Yeah.   0:33:51.6 Andrew Stotz: Fear.   0:33:53.0 John Willis: Yeah.   0:33:54.5 Andrew Stotz: That is something that remains in your belief system that is supported by Deming. Did you have that awareness when you were in... Let's just think about before you came across Deming.   0:34:08.1 John Willis: Oh, oh, yeah.   0:34:08.9 Andrew Stotz: Let's say you were doing all that stuff with Goldratt and all that but then when you came to Deming, did fear come up as, oh, wow, this is obvious, or did you learn that later and you see it now more?   0:34:21.3 John Willis: Andrew, this is why you're good at your job. This is good. This is a great question. No, really good... I love questions where I have to really deep think about it. So I think that I kind of always... It wasn't until DevOps that I understood what failing was about. So just before, like the nanosecond before I'm learning what Deming's saying about PDSA and failing and how the whole structure of learning is, I had this sense, but I don't think I was baptized yet on... And to me, I'll put fear and failure in the same bucket, right? Because it's a very... They are, in a lot of senses, the same thing. But certainly I can put them in the same bucket. So I had a sense, but it wasn't until we started seeing fast fail in DevOps. So DevOps, one of the things with DevOps was shorten the feedback loop. That was one of the core tenets of DevOps. Like, instead of waiting three, four weeks, five weeks, six weeks to deliver some software, or six months, and then by the time you deliver it, you're onto... The whole group that built it is now doing something else, let's just be able to turn a line of code into a delivery now. And that was revolutionary, right? And it's changed the universe. I mean, you don't have the big AI providers today if you didn't have DevOps.   0:35:46.4 John Willis: You would not have Airbnb and Uber and all that if you didn't have DevOps. Right? So that... And that sort of realized that this fast feedback loop is really an interesting thing, right? And the fact that it is telling you fail fast because then you learn fast and then you correct fast. And you... And so right around that time, I'm doing this research on Deming and starting to understand epistemology, the theory of knowledge. And so, again, I don't think... Like I said earlier, I don't think I had the... And vocabulary's too loose of a word. I don't think I had the structural understanding. Like, I didn't know what the word epistemology meant [laughter] before I started learning Deming. So I... So it was really... There were flavors of understanding what learning was, but it was DevOps that literally sort of put it to the front of why this works, how it does. And then I got... Again, a lot of careers is just being lucky, right? I just happened to sort of tap into this Deming thing through meeting Gene, learning about Goldratt, and then having this good friend tap me on the head and say it all goes back to Deming. And so, so and then that point, then it sort of opened up the whole world of epistemology. And it wasn't until I wrote the book where I started realizing it was pragmatism.   0:37:07.2 Andrew Stotz: And did that... Does that fail fast, does that method of accelerating the feedback loop that happened through DevOps as you've explained, does that remove a lot of fear from where people would be...   0:37:19.6 John Willis: Oh yeah.   0:37:19.7 Andrew Stotz: Much more... So that all of a sudden says, "No, no, no, it's okay to fail. We'll see that in a day, in two days, and then we're gonna iterate from that." So, okay, I understand how that kind of reframes fear of failure. But then you now talked also about the idea that it's a big element that you see, everything goes back to Deming. Nowadays you see this fear. How does it connect with how you see fear today in the workplace or in organizations?   0:37:50.6 John Willis: Well, again, I think it's the same thing. I mean, I hear people talk about now that one of the big discussions right now and I always look for the anti-pattern of where the discussions go, right? There's this big discussion about AI slop, right? In fact, last year it was we were all concerned about hallucinations. And I'm not dismissing that, but like, if you know how to run AI and infrastructure harnesses and build ground truth in an organization and you understand how your internal audit works, hallucinations are not, let me repeat this, are not a problem in 2026. They are not a problem. You could make them a problem by not understanding what I just said, but they are not a problem. So today's hallucination frenzy scare is what's called AI slop. And I guarantee you in 2027, it'll be something else. But... And I'm not saying it doesn't exist. It does exist, right? But so people are sort of calibrating, what is the cost... There's this counter-reaction to AI coding, not even assistance, people are now using pure agent coding, right? And the question that I think Deming would ask and maybe if there is some divine proxy of me speaking through Deming or Deming speaking through me is that the question that people are now looking at is, "Slop is so bad, we're creating so much code, should we ease back to the longer cycle for ideation and delivery and that process?" Because it's costing us a lot of money on the implementation side.   0:39:20.8 John Willis: The error, the time it takes to remediate the slop is starting to outweigh. Well, that's just bad organizational behavior and design. But okay, but so now I've had this argument with a major corporation, the CIO the other day, where I was saying you have to create this hourglass effect. For you got to create the funnel and then you got to have the control system that slows things down and speeds it up. And he was saying, "But yeah, the cost of the slop is all this stuff." And I said... What I said is, "Yeah, but what you're missing is..." and this is a company that did really well in DevOps, I worked with them years ago through the DevOps transformation and they understood the fast feedback and I had to re-explain the idea that, yeah, there's a cost to AI slop, but if you're not calibrating that with the cost of non-fast feedback and learning because your fear is this slop is gonna get us back or make you knee-jerk reactions, we're gonna see if we can slow down the ideation, maybe we move too fast. And again, I don't... There are scenarios where that is absolutely true, but that is, first understanding your problem. And your problem isn't slow down the ideation process.  Oh, we should spend more time ideating because what does that do? It goes back to the old school where we're spending way too much time in the ideation. By the time it actually gets implemented, the feedback loop of learning is way too long. So I think you're better off at least measuring... And this is where variation comes into play. Measuring if I decrease the ideation time, do I get more value from the fast feedback because I can understand the problem, I can fix it faster? And again, that was one of the core tenets of DevOps. But I find people now pushing back because they're scared of AI slop and it's costing more remediation time. So again, I think these are multiple ways of thinking about how fear...   [overlapping conversation]   0:41:26.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, so besides...   0:41:27.1 John Willis: The fear... And I was just gonna say one... Sorry to cut you off.   0:41:29.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, go ahead.   0:41:31.0 John Willis: But one of the biggest problems I've seen over the years is I think the knee-jerk reaction is the symptom of fear. Right? And so I've seen this over and over where a bank gets pawned and so they put out a req for a hundred IT sec professionals in a city where you can best case hire 10 one year. Right? So again, I think that there's that combinatorial fear, knee-jerk reaction.   0:42:00.5 Andrew Stotz: If you were to pick one other area of Deming that really stands the test of time for you, as opposed to a Deming disciple, let's say someone that's trying to implement everything that he's talking about and they're trying to do it in their little manufacturing company or their service business, which I interview those guys.   0:42:09.1 John Willis: Yeah, yeah.   0:42:17.6 Andrew Stotz: But in your case, in some ways it's like you swam through a Deming period of time, absorbed everything and now you're on to other stuff. I'm just kind of interested about what else is lasting?   0:42:35.2 John Willis: Yeah, no...   0:42:35.3 Andrew Stotz: Just one thing.   0:42:35.6 John Willis: And I think maybe, Andrew, maybe part of a problem of the institutionalized Deming conversations is it doesn't always have to have the word Deming in it. In other words, I'm not criticizing you. I'm just saying that I see it more as it's in my DNA. It's part of how I look at things. And so I'll give you a great example. This is pure Deming, but I wouldn't think of it as, "Oh, let me explain this way I want you to evolve in AI because Deming would say..." I don't start that way. But I will tell you that when I came up with this idea and it's called an ideation, AI ideation hackathon. Right? Because everybody's running tech hackathons, AI hackathons. And that's a terrible, terrible, terrible idea. And there's technical debt, you're just making a lot of mistakes there.   0:43:01.7 Andrew Stotz: Right.   0:43:27.8 John Willis: It's a knee-jerk reaction. So the ideation hackathon is sort of something unique. I was doing some consulting for the CMO of a large database company, but got into AI and I helped them, it's called MongoDB, I don't do any work for them anymore but I helped them launch their AI solution. And I did a lot of technical hackathons and I just kept seeing how all the chaos of these technical hackathons, people would build stuff, it would just wind up in GitHub repositories, it would go nowhere. And I finally said, "Why don't we just strip out the technology and focus on the ideation process?" Right? And so that becomes a pure implementation of PDSA. Right? Because in a PDSA, if I was gonna sort of explain it in a Deming way, a hackathon would be a terrible way to implement a PDSA. "So let's build the Sistine Chapel and then let's figure out, let's study the results." Or why don't we start small as an organization? This is why I tell my first... Right now, CIO asks me, "Okay, John..." and usually the conversation ends at this, "What would be your 30-day, 90-day plan, 180-day plan?"   0:44:41.0 John Willis: I'm like, "Not to have one." Yeah, but then I sort of, I talk about two ways to deal with where they're at. And I say that one is something I've done over years, was a qualitative. I do these large where I interview 300, 400 people and I use true qualitative analysis approach to interviewing people, build categories, and structurally design what the place looks like. Right? And that's very... But it's very expensive and it takes... Expensive not in the money, but the time. The new sort of one that CIOs, at least a small percentage of bite onto is, "Why don't we run some ideation hackathons?" And here's the value, you're not writing any code. You're letting people focus on learning how to ideate. Because remember I said earlier, AI is not a technology transformation, it's an organizational learning change. So let's focus on the organizational learning structures without giving any of the technology or the code. But do the hackathon, and the readouts are what you would have built minus the specific tools. And it's glorious because you actually you get to see all the stuff without expending tokens. You don't build the risks. Because anybody who tells you they can sandbox experiments in AI is lying, absolute lying. If anybody's followed the recent Open AI Hugging Face one, it was the most insane escape.   0:46:10.9 John Willis: So, and then the other idea is I don't want 30 of my executive administrators all picking their own tools and all trying to solve all their C-level bosses' problems. And by the way, there's the whole security exposure is, I've done ideation hackathons where an EA says, "I got this idea. I wanna take my P&L or my profit or whatever of some proprietary information on a spreadsheet and throw it into Claude and have Claude..." I'm like, "Yeah, no, no, no, no. Let me explain how that goes into Claude." It literally, it traverses through a bunch of internal structures that leave stuff laying around. And by the way, even though they say they don't train on your data, they have your data. Like, you don't want that data in there. So the ideation hackathon, I think, is a really good... And so I think the main point to that is, although I don't walk in the door and I think one of the... Again, your listeners, I'm like attacking your listeners basically but I think one of our problems is, we try to build our, some people try to build their skill set around like, "I'm a Deming expert. I'm gonna teach you how to do Deming and everything's gonna be great because of Deming." as opposed to let's just make the water Deming, the water, the fabric of what we do. And every once in a while it does make sense to be able to say, "Hey, you know that..." And I won't go back and say I won't lead and say, "Well, Deming tells us..." because I'm not gonna get the gig if I just go too much on Deming anyway. But I will say at some point, I'll say, "Here's the deal. We've got over 100 years of management knowledge on how to do the right things. Let's pay attention to those things." Right? And that's the Deming, that's the Shewhart, that's the Ackoff, it's the Ashby, it's the... We can go down the list, right? Senge.   0:48:06.2 Andrew Stotz: One of the things I was thinking about a while ago was, when Dr. Deming wrote 'Out of the Crisis', he was telling us that we were in a crisis and that we needed to think a new level of thinking. Did it work? Are we out of the crisis? Did people take on board what he taught? Where are we now? That was 1986.   0:48:30.7 John Willis: Yeah, I know, I know.   0:48:31.7 Andrew Stotz: On the one side you can say America's brought incredible amount of innovation and businesses are huge and other countries and other regions struggle to catch up with America. So on the one hand, you could say materially it appears like we're there. But on the other hand, when you look at the way things are managed, you could argue, yeah, not much has changed.   0:48:56.7 John Willis: It's a tough one. It's a tough, I mean, let's just face it, large-scale organizations of high consequences are so full of bureaucracy. Humans interacting at that scale is probably the hardest organizational problem there is, right? You can study anthropology for the next 40 or 50 years and still not have a good clue of how to. And people do, right? So, yeah, it's hard. And why things work, why they go through the... I mean, I talk about the Peterson at Ford, right? And then Ford, turns out there were a lot of other... There are these other conflicting things that happen, industry changes, financial models change. Why did Ford have this incredible success when Peterson called Deming? And then some number of years later, they're back to the old ways, right? We got General Motors, we got all that. I will say this, and I hadn't really thought about this until you asked the question. One of the things I did focus pretty heavy on is Deming's influence on Toyota. And now there's a lot of debate and this is where people get pretty mean with me. I mean, Dr. Spear, I love Dr. Spear. He wrote 'High Velocity Edge' and he's a genius. He was MIT Sloan. And every time I'd see him, "Well, you know, John, Deming and that Six Sigma stuff never worked." And I'm like, "Alright, first off, he didn't do Six Sigma. Second off..."   0:50:21.6 John Willis: And then he told me one time, he said that Deming had no influence on Toyota. I'm like, "Yeah, that's just not blatantly untrue. I'm sorry, you're a PhD genius, I'm not. You're wrong." And so I've been hitting him... Over the years, I hit him with a lot of evidence of Deming's influence on Toyota. And it even goes back to Denco Densco and some of the same. But here's the thing, right? I... There's a woman called Katie Anderson. She's got a book, Learning to... 'Leading to Learn, Learning to Lead', where she met a guy who spent four decades at Toyota, this Dr. Yoshino, and she interviewed and wrote a book about his career. She runs a Japan study trip. I did a Japan study trip a couple of years ago and I got to meet him. And I... He hired at Toyota in 1966. He worked alongside Ohno, Shingo. He was there. He was a junior guy, but he was the guy they were yelling at, "Do this, do that, do this." right? So he was there.   0:51:23.9 John Willis: I told him, I said, "There are people that believe in the US that Deming had no influence on Toyota." He could not believe that that question even could come up. And he told me, he said, "John...", he doesn't really speak good English, we had a translator, he said, "Let me tell you what Deming taught us. He taught us to understand data." And at first I didn't grok that, but then I started thinking about variation. And although there's a lot of people that say that that didn't carry through too, but if I look at what Agile, Lean, and ultimately become DevOps, I in that book trace it pretty strongly back to Deming's influence on Toyota. And you can't deny Lean is not the core of Agile Lean, today's Lean, right? Toyota Production Systems, to be clear. So then I would say that the lasting impact of Deming is not what happened in the '80s when the Americans started understanding what he did, because maybe that translation, maybe it had to be... I asked Doris Quinn this and she said, "Oh, that's interesting." Because I said this, I said, "Could it be that Japan influenced Deming as much as he influenced Japan?" And I think it did. And I think the point was they were...   0:52:45.6 Andrew Stotz: It was a love affair.   0:52:46.3 John Willis: And yeah, and they were more malleable to his messaging.   0:52:50.3 Andrew Stotz: Well, they were more malleable because of their condition, but they also were more susceptible because of the structure of the society.   0:53:01.6 John Willis: Exactly. Yeah, but even the sort of community structure. I'll tell you another quick story on that study trip where we visited an elementary school. And in the elementary school, they had no janitors. Every sort of public school is like this, right? They have no janitors. And the kids, they literally clean. At about 2 o'clock, a bell goes off and some kids rotate and they do the bathrooms, some people... Imagine in an American school, some ritzy parents, "My son cleaned the bathroom?" It'd be on CNN. And they rotated serving food.   0:53:20.7 Andrew Stotz: Child slave labor.   0:53:39.7 John Willis: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we got to interview a couple of them and they understood Kaizen and all. So me, I start thinking about like, oh my God, this is our... Western culture is so broken because we basically teach everything that's antithetical to that. They get out of college and then maybe they get lucky and get into an Agile, Lean-like structure and we have to break it all down, where their kids come out completely in that sort of community. And we went to a lot of tier-one distributors. You could see the understanding of community and the power of it. And so what I'm saying is, what Deming was giving them saturated to have such an impact on TPS, and it's unquestionable the impact TPS has had on Lean and Agile and DevOps. And if you follow my thread, Lean, Agile, and DevOps have certainly impacted... You don't have places like Google for good or bad, Facebook for good or bad, Uber, because they could never scale...   0:54:40.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah.   0:54:40.1 John Willis: Without that. So again, I think, I really hadn't thought about this until you asked the question, is I think actually the Deming 1980s renaissance of Deming was a... Seemed like a bubble in retrospect, unfortunately. But actually indirectly, he's had more... And there's a good part of the book that tries to cover that. I do the "What would Deming do?" after he died, if he was alive and all the stuff that happened there.   0:55:06.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, I mean, definitely DevOps. And then Eric... What was his... The Lean Startup one?   0:55:14.0 John Willis: Eric Ries. Yeah, Eric Ries. Yeah.   0:55:17.3 Andrew Stotz: That also... Those two really probably did more to promote PDSA and that aspect.   0:55:23.4 John Willis: Yeah, that's right. Oh yeah, scientific method. There is a copy, and I cannot find it anywhere, there is a copy of Eric, one of Eric Ries' Lean Startup books that does attribute to Deming, and I cannot find it.   0:55:36.5 Andrew Stotz: It does or does not?   0:55:38.7 John Willis: Does. Does. He's got this thing about the 75th birthday or something. Do you have it? Because I can't find the copy, at some point I read a copy where he does a tribute to Deming.   0:55:50.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, I think there's some...   0:55:53.0 John Willis: And then...   0:55:53.1 Andrew Stotz: I have the book and I think there is some reference in the book.   0:55:57.5 John Willis: Yeah, there was one, was like... It was like... I don't know if it was the 70th year, 75th year, and he... So yeah, no, I mean that directly. Lean Startup is literally... Yeah, so yeah.   0:56:10.9 Andrew Stotz: And if we think about people that are listening to this podcast, the people that I really want to listen to this podcast and I really want to get something out of the podcast is people that just don't know Deming. They've never heard of it, but they've stumbled upon it. One of the Deming community said, "Hey, you should listen to this podcast because you'll learn about Deming." And maybe they listen to a couple of episodes and it's a bit overwhelming when they hear someone talking about a lot of detail about this or that. Maybe they bought 'Out of the Crisis' and they got a chapter or two into it and they thought, yeah, that's also a bit overwhelming. What would be your message to that person who's listening right now to say, here's the reason why you shouldn't abandon it because of XYZ or whatever that message is that you've got about what they need to know about Deming?   0:57:01.4 John Willis: Yeah. I mean, I will say this, learning is hard. Change is hard, right? I mean, it sounds cliché, but, yeah, I think all of us who came into Deming, I didn't... When I read, we talked about this, I read 'Out of the Crisis', I was like, I don't know what's going on here. One of the worst things I can advise you to, I hate to say this, and this is probably anti-Deming Institute, is start off by reading his two books. You're better off going out to podcasts like this or other stories. I found that healthcare was chock-full of great stories, particularly about Profound Knowledge, of great examples. And then I went back and read the book and then like, oh my God, this is, now I get it, right? So I think a lot of things that we sort of encounter, a lot of them have... The things that are really valuable have this sort of facing counter-intuitiveness nature to them, and you have to sort of work at that.   0:57:55.9 Andrew Stotz: Yeah.   0:57:56.9 John Willis: And so Deming is hard. I mean, you... If you wanna understand Deming, I would say most people are not gonna get it on the snap. And what I would say to them is, it's worth figuring out what are the parts that he says and he did and his philosophy that could become part of your DNA, 'cause that I don't think anybody disagrees on. And then... And one other sort of short story. And I love Bill Bellows and I would say listen to all his podcasts. He's an amazing guy and just incredibly insightful on a lot of, I didn't really understand Taguchi, but so I did some podcasts with him. But I remember, and I'm not calling anybody out, but he runs the In2:InThinking Group and I've been to a couple of those. And I remember one time we were sitting there and we were having a conversation around sort of a roundtable and somebody asked, as I was talking about a company, they said, "Are they a Deming company?" I'm like, yeah. And I couldn't actually get through the room that, no. Nobody's a Deming company. Like, what is a Deming company? That's the wrong question. So again, back to, you got to be careful about how you think about Deming as using his philosophy to help organizations, because the more you focus on that it is a "Deming philosophy" as opposed to these are the right ways to think about the problems, you fall into this trap of maybe getting lost. Well, that Deming thing worked for about a year or two years and now it doesn't work. Well, if you don't call it a Deming thing, then what were the things that stuck and what are the things that didn't?   0:59:42.5 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. I just wanna remind the listeners and the viewers out there, just go to Amazon and find 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge'. For me, I listened to it as an Audible book, which was fun because I enjoyed the stories and it just reminded me to go back and listen again. And also the additional stories, which I actually hadn't bought until, I had been wanting to buy it, but I didn't. So while you were talking, I got that on Kindle. So that's gonna be my fun.   1:00:13.9 John Willis: Those are great stories. There's a story about Gene Cernan. He was the last guy to land, be on the moon. And as you go through the book, it's really interesting. I did like seven or eight... So I was in no rush to publish the Deming book. I was in a rush to do the AI book. So I would literally get to the third rev, the fourth rev, and every time I'd have more new friends point things out. And by the time I got to like eight revs and I'm like, okay, it's probably time to put this book out. But what happens is as you go with the editor, they just start carving things down. And a good editor makes the strong point, like my 'Devil Wears Prada'. But again, there were so many great stories, like the Gene Cernan one is the last guy to be on the moon, but there was a story about Tracy's Rock and it's just a fabulous story, but it didn't have any place in Deming's Journey of Profound Knowledge. It was just an add-on that sort of took you off course. But now, in a standalone book, it's a great story. So there's a ton of those. The guy who created Piggly Wiggly was this genius. Like, again, it didn't really fit in there. But as a standalone story and I even do a little bit of, like, this would have been in chapter 15, so if you read both, you get a sense. And the worst thing I can tell you, though, is I had one person, I was at a conference I was laying the book, the Profound Stories book was laying around, and I guess I came back, he was at a booth, and he read it, and he goes, "John, can I talk to you about your book?" I'm like, "What?" He goes, "I don't know." I'm like, "Oh, dude, you can't read that book without reading 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge'. It would be a terrible book if you didn't know what the premise was for where it came from." So, yeah.   1:01:59.7 Andrew Stotz: So in wrapping up, what would you like to leave the audience with from this discussion and from your journey into the teachings of Dr. Deming?   1:02:11.3 John Willis: Yeah, I think you have to start thinking about... And again, I know it sounds like I'm trying to sell the book and you're doing a better job than I am anyway but the last third of 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge' was what would Deming do had he survived another 20 years? Right? And probably nothing because he was pretty old and not healthy. But the... So, I mean, question then is, as we think about organizational behavior, what are the core things? And I think Profound Knowledge is a great way. I, again I... Again, I don't walk in and say, "Oh, we're gonna... CIO, we're gonna solve this problem by applying the four elements of Profound Knowledge." That's not how I start that conversation. But I'm certainly thinking about systems thinking because that's first and forefront. Like, how are you thinking about... Like one company recently I was with, they got... Some of the big AI providers are giving well-branded companies all-you-can-eat AI. Like OpenAI is saying, "Hey, you know..." That's a terrible idea, terrible, terrible. Because now you're just building technical debt up the gazoo, right? So again, to be able to see the forest behind the trees, what's the systems thinking effect of that? How are you learning? What's the epistemology, the theory of knowledge behind that?   1:03:39.2 John Willis: Are you applying... In the book, I tried to codify my understanding of, like, the theory of knowledge is, how do we know what we think we know? The variation is, how can we see what we think we know? The psychology is, what are the... Let's take a second and what are the blind spots? And then I think of it as a feedback loop is, are we continually like if you listen to Bill Bellows, he does a great job of sort of explaining systems thinking through the sort of vehicle of Taguchi or Ackoff but are we just continually looping through that process as, "Let's take a bigger chunk, let's take a bigger chunk, let's take a bigger chunk"? So Profound Knowledge, not so much that you have to walk in and be an expert on 'Deming's Journey to Profound Knowledge', or more specifically, The System of Profound Knowledge. The idea is, can you use those... And the reason I fell in with 'The System of Profound Knowledge', why that was what hit my core, because I will say, out of my five decades of doing all this crazy stuff in technology, I can't think... I mean, there's a lot of cool frameworks that I use as auxiliary, and frameworks I'm using loosely but The System of Profound Knowledge is the one framework that to me beats all other frameworks because it covers epistemology, it covers understanding statistical analysis or analytical statistics. Right? Which is very important. It brings in the biases, the... All the sort of things about how people think, blind spots, and then it throws together the wrapper of appreciation of a system, so...   1:05:23.2 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Well, John, on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute, now you see your picture on the cover.   [laughter]   1:05:32.2 John Willis: There we go, man.   1:05:33.7 Andrew Stotz: I wanna thank you. It's a great discussion and it's long overdue.   1:05:37.7 John Willis: Sure.   1:05:37.9 Andrew Stotz: And for listeners, remember to go to deming.org and jump into DemingNext to continue your journey. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, which is, "People are entitled to joy in work."   1:05:42.4 John Willis: I love that you end with that.   

The Coinbase team discusses the reframing of the brand and category, plus the opportunity that exists when 80% of Americans feel the existing financial system needs fixing. CMO, Cat Ferdon, VP, Brand, Gareth Kay and VP, Creative, Joe Staples. See all the creative work on our website or YouTube Channel.

Pourquoi certains contenus explosent pendant que d'autres sombrent dans l'oubli, et surtout, comment faire en sorte que votre marketing soit enfin vu, lu et partagé.

A customer pays twenty-five dollars for your top wash. The next morning it rains. She didn't lose a car wash. She feels like she lost twenty-five dollars.That feeling has a name, and it shapes how people buy almost everything, including your membership.In this episode of The Car Wash Growth Playbook, I break down loss aversion, the Nobel Prize-winning research showing we feel a loss about twice as strongly as we feel a gain. Then I show you what it means for how you sell car wash memberships, and how you keep members when it's been raining for three weeks straight.Most membership pitches ask your customer to get excited about something they might gain someday. Save money. Unlimited washes. Pays for itself in two visits. Meanwhile your customer is already trying to avoid a loss right now, and almost nobody in our industry is selling to it.We cover:Why "Save $154 a year" loses people at the pay stationThe reason 42% of members say they joined, according to an ICA consumer studyA two-word reframe that turns your membership into something customers hate to loseWhy rain guarantees answer the right fear for the wrong customerThe one line your team can say about your rain policy starting tomorrow morningThe visit threshold that makes members 70% less likely to cancel, from data across 1,500 locationsWhat to text members during a rainy stretch, and the one thing you should never mentionWhy a free month is the wrong answer when members haven't been inA loyalty card study done at a car wash that explains why a head start changes behaviorThe biggest fear keeping new customers from ever pulling in (it isn't the price)Then I give you one assignment for this week. It takes one message you're already using and one question you've probably never asked about it.━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━

Turning customers into raving fans isn't just for rock bands and blockbuster brands, it's a repeatable business strategy backed by neuroscience. In this episode of Marketer of the Day, David Meerman Scott bestselling author of The New Rules of Marketing and PR, Fanocracy, and the upcoming The Fandom Playbook (late 2026) breaks down how fandom marketing can transform the way you grow your business in an era of AI slop and online chaos. Instead of chasing shallow clicks and fleeting attention, David shows how to build deep, emotional connections with the people you serve. You'll hear how mirror neurons and our hardwired need for tribe and belonging explain why video, live events, and in‑person gatherings can create “I feel like I know you” relationships at scale even when you've never met your audience in real life. David shares practical ways to bring that same energy into your brand, from hosting conferences and meetups to simple client dinners that turn customers into a community. If you've ever wondered why fans camp out for product launches, travel across the world for events, or tattoo logos on their bodies, this conversation connects the dots and shows how those same principles apply to your business. David also reveals one of the most surprising fandom strategies from his new book: tearing down the wall between your personal and professional life. Through stories like the skateboarding dentist who grew new patients by 33% and revenue by 23% just by sharing his passion online, David illustrates how authentic quirks and hobbies such as surfing, classic cars, Lindy Hop dancing, and more make you memorable and magnetic. Passion is contagious, and when you let people see what you genuinely love, you stop being just another provider and start becoming someone they root for. Another underused play David unpacks is unlocking hidden data inside your organization to create value that fans can't get anywhere else. You'll learn how companies like Hagerty Insurance built a massive fandom by freely sharing aggregated classic car values, and how a secure data‑room provider turned anonymized M&A activity into must‑have market intelligence for Wall Street. These examples show how so‑called “boring” data, when opened up and packaged well, can become a powerful fandom engine that attracts, educates, and retains your ideal audience. https://youtu.be/89r57MhEuV8?si=IUsMic0G3SU10-LE Throughout the episode, David ties these ideas together with a clear promise: in a world dominated by algorithms, automation, and AI‑generated noise, leaning into humanity is the contrarian advantage. The Fandom Playbook: How to Create Passionate Fans in a World of Online Chaos distills his 20+ years of research into nine concrete plays you can start using today, whether you're a startup founder, consultant, CMO, nonprofit leader, or creator. If you're ready to escape online chaos, build a real tribe around your work, and make your marketing feel fun again, this episode will give you both the inspiration and the roadmap to start building your own fanocracy. Quotes: "As I was researching this idea of fandom, this thing came up again and again and again: it's a genuine human connection." "If you can build a tribe of like‑minded people in your business, any way that you can have in‑person connections, you are building fans because you're building a tribe." "Show us in your business world who you are as a person. What are those things you're passionate about? Because passion is infectious." Contact Details: Turn Customers Into Fans → Explore David's Strategies Stop Selling. Start Creating Fans. Discover the Fandom Marketing Strategy Discover Smarter Ways to Create Fans: Connect with David Meerman Scott on LinkedIn Follow David Meerman Scott on Facebook for Fresh Marketing Insights Want to Build a Fan-First Brand? Follow David Meerman Scott on X The New Rules of Marketing & PR on Amazon Fanocracy: Turning Fans into Customers and Customers into Fans on Amazon The Fandom Playbook on Amazon

On this episode of skucast, Bobby Lehew chats with Kirby Hasseman, CEO of Hasseman Marketing and author of HYBRID Marketing, about random acts of marketing, the six moves that connect merch to digital, and why AI works best as a marketing intern rather than a CMO.

The advertising industry is undergoing a massive shift—one where legacy relationships are fading and consumer expectations are changing. In this episode of Campaign Chemistry, the team dives straight into the latest industry drama surrounding PepsiCo's sudden agency shift and what it signals for the competitive landscape against rival Coca-Cola.Editors Emmy Liederman, Jameson Fleming and Cecilia Garzella unpack the rising tide of brand controversies, exploring why missing diverse perspectives inside creative rooms leads to costly missteps. Plus, a look into the evolving Agency of the Year awards and why CMO-led judging shifts the focus onto measurable business impact. campaignlive.com Music - Take you Out by Lucid Tides, courtesy of Triple Scoop. What we know about advertising, you should know about advertising. Start your 1-month FREE trial to Campaign US. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

As corporate leadership demands strict financial accountability, CPG brand marketers must move beyond surface-level ROAS to prove incremental sales impact. In this episode recorded live at Grocery Shop, host Dylan Conroy sits down with Dan Eisenberg, CMO of Blue Chip, to discuss the evolution of commerce marketing and retail media networks.Key Topics Covered:- Transitioning from standard ROAS metrics to true C-suite incrementality models.- Harnessing first-party retail media data (Walmart Connect) to power full-funnel CTV buys.- Monetizing physical store foot traffic with dynamic digital out-of-home media.- Auditing creator networks versus native retail media influencer inventory.Compressing commercial storyboarding timelines from weeks to hours using custom AI agents.Dan Eisenberg is the Chief Marketing Officer and Partner at Blue Chip, an independent brand commerce agency with 45 years of category leadership in CPG, grocery, and food & beverage.Connect with Dan Eisenberg on LinkedIn or visit Blue Chip. Brought to you by Strike Social. Follow host Dylan Conroy on LinkedIn.

(Free) Build your first marketing AI agent: https://clickhubspot.com/lwkf Ep. 456 Is the CMO role dead in the age of AI-driven marketing? Kipp, Kieran, and guest Cody Schneider (Cofounder of Graphed.com) dive into how AI agents are transforming the marketing landscape, slashing the cost of creative production, and reshaping marketing teams. Learn more on scaling content with AI agents, automating paid and organic campaigns, and how the new world of “marketing engineering” is making one person as effective as a team of twenty. Mentions Cody Schneider https://www.youtube.com/@codyschneiderx Graphed https://www.graphed.com/ Loop: Outlearn. Outmarket. Outgrow https://www.hubspot.com/loop-marketing-book DaVinci Resolve https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve Get our guide to build your own Custom GPT: https://clickhubspot.com/customgpt Resource [Free] Steal our favorite AI Prompts featured on the show! Grab them here: https://clickhubspot.com/aip We're on Social Media! Follow us for everyday marketing wisdom straight to your feed YouTube: ​​https://www.youtube.com/@matgpod  Twitter: https://twitter.com/matgpod  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@marketingatg Thank you for tuning into Marketing Against The Grain! Don't forget to hit subscribe and follow us on Apple Podcasts (so you never miss an episode)! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/marketing-against-the-grain/id1616700934   We really appreciate your support. Host Links: Kipp Bodnar, https://twitter.com/kippbodnar   Kieran Flanagan, https://twitter.com/searchbrat  ‘Marketing Against The Grain' is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by Hubspot Media // Produced by Darren Clarke.

Welcome to the What's Next! Podcast with Tiffani Bova.    My guest this week is Kipp Bodnar, CMO of HubSpot, where he spent more than 15 years helping scale the company from startup to a global customer platform. He is also the host of Marketing Against The Grain. He also released a new book with Kieran Flanagan, Loop: Outlearn. Outmarket. Outgrow. where the authors explore how AI is changing the ways customers discover, evaluate, and ultimately choose.   THIS EPISODE IS PERFECT FOR…marketers, CMOs, and business leaders looking to rethink their growth strategy and adapt to AI.   TODAY'S MAIN MESSAGE…AI is making it easier to create and distribute content at scale, but it's also raising the bar for what actually makes a brand stand out. Kipp explains why marketers need to move beyond chasing website traffic and instead focus on depth, faster learning, customer understanding, and distinctive ideas. Kipp argues that the future of marketing isn't about producing more but about knowing what matters and doing it exceptionally well.   KEY TAKEAWAYS: Website traffic is no longer a reliable indicator of demand or revenue growth. AI makes depth, focus, and faster learning critical sources of competitive advantage. Great personalization requires strong customer data and a clear point of view. The brands that stand out will earn attention through distinctive ideas, not simply by generating more content.   WHAT I LOVE MOST…AI may change how marketing gets done, but it doesn't change what makes great marketing great. The advantage belongs to the marketers who understand their customers, have something distinctive to say, and know how to turn great ideas into action.   Running Time: 29:15 Subscribe on iTunes   Find Tiffani Online: LinkedIn Facebook X    Find Kipp Online: LinkedIn   Kipp's Book: Loop: Outlearn. Outmarket. Outgrow.

The Industrial Marketing Summit is returning to Austin for its fourth year! IMS 2027 is shaping up to bring even more depth, practical education, and connection to the industrial marketing community. In this episode, summit co-hosts Wendy Covey and Joe Sullivan preview what attendees can expect. The 2027 Industrial Marketing Summit will take place in Austin, Texas on February 23 -25. Co-hosted by TREW Marketing and Gorilla 76, this event is in it's fourth year. Wendy Covey and Joe Sullivan reflect on how IMS has evolved over the past three years, especially the sense of community that has formed among marketers working inside manufacturing, engineering, and other technical organizations.The 2027 program will balance foundational marketing strategies with the technologies reshaping the profession today. Sessions will explore topics including messaging, product launches, omnichannel content, trade shows, marketing measurement, AI search, and practical ways marketers can use AI within their organizations.Attendees can also go deeper through three hands-on workshops focused on AI context engineering, go-to-market strategy, and AI-powered search. The episode also introduces 2027 keynote speaker John Graff, former longtime CMO of National Instruments and current business strategy and AI instructor at the Texas McCombs School of Business.Another major addition for 2027 is the new Industrial Marketing Awards, created to recognize standout campaigns, product launches, content programs, events, innovation, and individual marketers across the industry.ResourcesConnect with Joe on LinkedInConnect with Wendy on LinkedInRegister for the Industrial Marketing SummitApply for the Industrial Marketing Awards 

Découvrez Webmecanik, le partenaire du Podcast du Marketing qui vous simplifie le CRM et l'automatisation.Et si vous pouviez multiplier votre audience sans produire toujours plus de contenu ? Avec Alexe Martel et Charles Davignon, nous décortiquons la stratégie du bundle : comment plusieurs entrepreneurs peuvent mutualiser leurs audiences, leur visibilité et leur confiance pour toucher de nouvelles personnes. Dans cet épisode : 00:00 Teasing04:03 Pourquoi s'intéresser au bundle ? 05:34 Comment fonctionne un bundle ? 07:25 Mutualiser les audiences pour gagner en visibilité 09:57 Le bundle fonctionne-t-il avec une petite audience ? 12:09 Newsletter ou réseaux sociaux ? 17:57 Affiliation : comment les participants sont-ils rémunérés ? 21:53 Comment créer son propre bundle ? 28:50 Mobiliser les participants pour réussir son lancement 30:38 Les principaux enseignements à retenir 35:05 Le Cabinet de curiosités Vous pouvez aussi découvrir le Cabinet de Curiosités d'Alexe et Charles.---------------

Consumers do not only want more energy. Increasingly, they are looking for ways to pause, moderate, and unwind.Zech Francis, CMO of Recess, explains how the functional beverage brand is positioning calm as a counterweight to caffeine, overstimulation, and high-alcohol drinking occasions. He discusses how Recess makes relaxation feel relatable through everyday moments such as a difficult commute, an overloaded inbox, or the Sunday scaries, rather than relying on clinical language or complicated ingredient claims.Francis also shares how Recess is building a platform that spans mood-support sparkling water, zero-proof mocktails, powders, and future innovations. He explores the marketing strategy behind turning a niche functional benefit into a broader consumer ritual, the value of getting "cans in hands" through sampling and retail, and the role of AI as a creative thought partner. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

AI can make people productive before it makes them experienced. That creates a new problem for leaders: if junior employees stop doing the work that once taught judgment, where will the next generation of experts come from?Elizabeth Maxson, CMO of Contentful, joins Rachel Truair to explore what her team calls “judgment debt”—the long-term cost of automating away the experiences people use to build instinct, context and expertise. They discuss why Elizabeth still requires humans to write the brief, why knowing when AI is wrong may become more valuable than knowing how to use it, and why she believes leaders need a “human on the hook,” not simply a human in the loop.The conversation ultimately asks whether businesses can capture AI's efficiency without accidentally dismantling the apprenticeship system that creates their future leaders.Quotes“You have to build judgment by actually doing the work and having lived experiences.”“I want to shift ‘human in the loop' to ‘human on the hook,' because if something does not work, who's accountable? We are.”“Do you have enough expertise to know when it's wrong? And if you don't, do you at least have enough expertise to ask the question to figure it out?”From the conversationWhy automating entry-level work could create a long-term shortage of judgment, skills and institutional knowledge, even if nothing appears broken today.How Elizabeth separates work AI should accelerate, such as analyzing large data sets and creating a “crappy first draft,” from the strategy, curiosity and accountability she believes should remain human.Why Contentful still requires humans to build detailed briefs, and why Elizabeth believes some organizations may need to “go slow to go fast” instead of treating speed as the objective.What “judgment debt” looks like when people rely on AI before they have enough experience to recognize when its answers are wrong, and why mentorship and human relationships still matter.How hiring may change when candidates use AI to produce excellent work: Elizabeth argues leaders should test the thinking, response to feedback and decision-making behind the output rather than simply banning the technology.About the guestElizabeth Maxson is the Chief Marketing Officer of Contentful, a content management platform trusted by more than 4,200 companies around the world.Elizabeth brings nearly two decades of integrated marketing leadership to the role and is focused on driving marketing strategies that leverage AI and personalization to help brands deliver personalized and scalable content to their audiences.Prior to Contentful, Elizabeth served as the Chief Marketing Officer at Tableau, a Salesforce company, where she led go-to-market strategy and drove end-to-end marketing initiatives. In addition to her role at Tableau, Elizabeth has also served as the Head of Marketing at Quip, another Salesforce acquisition, as well as spearheaded Strategic Technology Partnerships marketing, launching critical relationships with industry giants such as AWS, Google Cloud, Alibaba, Apple, and many others.She carries a BAA in Facility Management and Marketing from Central Michigan University.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emaxson/

Aleksandar Dimitrov, founder and CMO of Amused Agency, explains how simple content and relationship building help experts attract clients online. He shares how his boutique studio supports consultants and thought leaders through personal branding, offer positioning, and educational content. Learn why website experiences should reflect where visitors come from, and how videos and lead magnets can build trust before asking someone to book a call. Aleksandar also discusses LinkedIn marketing, adapting writing to different platforms, and applying timeless customer psychology instead of chasing every new tool. For marketers and founders, this episode offers a clear reminder to listen deeply, follow up, and focus on fundamentals.

What turns a celebrity endorsement into genuine advocacy?Jim is joined by Daymond John, founder and CEO of FUBU, founder of The Shark Group, and one of the original investors on ABC's Shark Tank, alongside Karen Spaeth, Chief Marketing Officer of Starkey.Karen has spent more than 16 years at Starkey, leading across events, communications, customer experience, and global marketing before becoming CMO in 2023. Today, she oversees the company's global brand strategy and is helping reposition hearing aids as advanced, AI-powered wearable technology designed to improve connection, confidence, and quality of life.Daymond's relationship with Starkey began through the company's hearing foundation and grew more personal when he recognized his own hearing loss. After becoming a Starkey user, he evolved from ambassador to outspoken advocate, proudly wearing custom red hearing aids and encouraging others to see hearing technology as empowering rather than embarrassing.Together, Jim, Daymond, and Karen explore what makes a brand partnership authentic, how marketers can change deeply rooted perceptions, and why real customer stories often resonate more powerfully than traditional advertising. They also discuss AI, innovation, company culture, and the challenge of marketing a product that millions of people need but may hesitate to admit they want.At its heart, this episode is about trust. It is a reminder that people know when they are being sold to, but they also recognize when belief is real.—Meet The CMO Podcast On the RoadThe CMO Podcast will be on the road throughout early 2027, capturing conversations with the leaders shaping the future of marketing, leadership, and business. If you'll be attending one of these events, we'd love to connect. Let us know!Advertising Week New York | October 5-6BLINK Cincinnati | October 8ANA Masters of Marketing | October 20–22CES | January 5-7—Interested in partnering with The CMO Podcast?!Looking ahead to the rest of 2026 and into 2027, we're partnering with brands to create executive content platforms that extend far beyond a single event. From pop-up podcast studios and live recordings to executive roundtables, keynote conversations, and bespoke thought leadership programs, we work with partners to build meaningful experiences that connect with senior marketing leaders.Whether you'd like to partner with us at one of the industry's biggest marketing events or create a custom experience designed specifically for your brand, we'd love to explore what's possible. Reach out to learn how we can build something together.Email us at podcasts@vyve.co—Produced by vYveThe CMO Podcast is proudly produced by vYve Production, a full-service production and content studio specializing in podcasts, executive storytelling, branded content, and live experiences. vYve is a community of ambitious leaders dedicated to unlocking what's next in business and in life. Through executive coaching, transformative experiences, strategic content, and communities like The CMO Podcast, vYve helps entrepreneurs, corporate leaders, and teams grow their businesses, strengthen their leadership, and build meaningful connections that last.Learn more about vYve and The CMO Podcast community at www.vyve.co.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Do you have a comment about this topic... Send us a Text Message. Click hereGhenn Weeks is a commercial strategist with 26 years of turning post-funding pressure into profitable, repeatable growth. As founder of Ghenn Weeks Consulting Group, she often serves as a fractional CMO, installing the commercial spine that ties marketing to revenue. Connect with GhennipherWebsite: https://ghennipherweeks.com/Ghenn's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ghennipherw/General Info:Need help with your law firm's digital marketing? Check out these case studies of some impressive results we've achieved for law firms just like yours.Click here to review the case studies: https://diginichesolutions.com/case-studies/Or Schedule a Discovery Call: https://calendly.com/diginiche/discovery-meetingConnect With Us On Social Media:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/diginichesolutionsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/diginichesolutions/LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/company/diginiche-solutionsYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DigiNicheSolutionsAlignable: https://www.alignable.com/bayonne-nj/diginiche-solutionsConnect With Frank Directly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fdemming/

Ally Financial underwent a major reorganization in the last year to support its strategic pivot toward positioning the consumer bank as an everyday banking brand, while also speeding up decision-making and reducing unnecessary processes. Chief Marketing and PR Officer Andrea Brimmer breaks down the overhaul, which was designed to embed AI use across the organization. The Detroit-based company aims to use the tool not just for efficiency, but as a fundamental consideration in how consumers discover and interact with the brand.  The resulting structure brings together teams spanning brand, data and analytics, go-to-market and media, design and digital ecosystems and communications and CMO operations, giving marketing oversight of the customer journey and making Brimmer solely responsible for any issues.  She discusses the dynamics of the new structure and what it means for Ally customers, and also talks about the evolving nature of the CMO role and where it is expected to go in the future. Dig deeper How CMOs should navigate AI opportunities and risks How CMOs can become CEOs—advice for those seeking the top C-suite job Ally Financial looks to add an agency to its roster

By the time your ideal client asks for a proposal, how much of their decision has already been made?Probably more than most agency owners realize.CMOs are paying attention long before they formally enter the market for an agency. They're looking for signs that a potential partner understands their business, can move quickly, and won't add more risk to an already high-pressure role.So, what makes a small agency feel like the right choice?Christian Banach, founder of Next Big Win, and I dug into that question. He has spent more than 20 years helping agencies win new business, and his CMO Journey interview series keeps him in regular conversation with senior marketing leaders.In this episode, we get into:Why CMOs treat hiring an agency as a risk decisionWhat a specialist signals before the first callWhat CMOs are still outsourcing, and what's moving in-houseWhere to look for early signs a company may need supportWhat to send a CMO once you've spotted a signalHow thought leadership keeps you visible while timing sorts itself outKnowing which CMOs to reach out to, and what to say when you do. This episode covers both.Show Notes:-The Next Big Win: thenextbigwin.comGet the full show notes and more information here: https://audreyjoykwan.com/podcast/ep162Podcast Edits by Lindsay Curtis

What does it truly take to disrupt traditional sports and build an organization that puts female athletes first? In this episode, host Emily Abbate sits down with Kayla Green, Acting President of Athlos, fresh off the heels of the groundbreaking Athlos London meet. Kayla pulls back the curtain on the decision-making process behind Athlos, from navigating the difficult late-August cancellation of the New York event to protect athletes’ well-being, to creating a high-energy meet culture combining world-class track and field with entertainment, Tiffany & Co. crowns, and record-breaking prize purses. She shares what she learned as employee number three at Angel City FC, why Athlos grants participating athletes equity in the league, and the advice she’d give anyone waiting for permission to take a leap. IN THIS EPISODE: The Athlos Formula: How Athlos merges elite competition, entertainment (like DJ Trauma trackside), and culture to make track and field accessible and electric for new and seasoned fans alike [source: 1]. Protecting the Athletes: The transparent conversation behind calling off the late-season New York meet to prioritize athletes’ physical recovery after a grueling Olympic season [source: 1]. Speed to Feed & Storytelling: Why Athlos partners with ScorePlay to deliver content directly to athletes' phones immediately post-race so they can own their narratives in real time [source: 1]. Disrupting the Playbook: Lessons carried over from Kayla’s time as founding CMO (employee #3) at Angel City FC—including challenging traditional sponsorship models and introducing the 10% giveback framework [source: 1]. Equity & Ownership: Why Athlos is providing participating athletes with equity in the league, investing in their long-term advisory role, and pushing for pay parity and media equity [source: 1]. Navigating High-Stakes Uncertainty: Kayla’s mindset on operating without a blueprint, finding clarity in your “why,” and why you should never wait for permission to jump into something new [source: 1]. QUOTABLE MOMENTS: “I’m really proud of the times when I said ‘yes,’ or the times when I believed with conviction that going against the status quo was the right thing to do.” “Athletes are our North Star and our fans are our compass. As long as we focus on those two points, everything else falls into place.” “When it comes to the physical toll on these women, especially after an intense championship season, putting their bodies and health first isn’t just the right move—it is the only move.” “You have to have a lot of bravery. You have to have a lot of belief that like, something isn't right, we can ask the question why and try to come up with a better solution.” “Don’t wait. Just jump, just go do it... because the world is moving too fast and we need to be ahead of it.” SOCIAL@athlos@hurdlepodcast@emilyabbate@iheartwomenssports JOIN: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Daily Hurdle IG Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ SIGN UP: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Weekly Hurdle Newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ASK ME A QUESTION: Email hello@hurdle.us to with your questions! Emily answers them every Friday on the show. Listen to Hurdle with Emily Abbate on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You know social media can help people find your business. But does using it effectively really require you to constantly post, film yourself, follow trends, and essentially become a content creator on top of everything else you already do? I'm joined by fractional CMO and social media strategist Madelyn Victoria to talk about a much more sustainable approach to Instagram, especially for introverts, busy founders, or anyone who doesn't want social media taking over their business. Madelyn shares why "attention is not the same as trust," why going viral isn't necessarily a useful business goal, and how to create a consistent presence without posting every day. We also get into practical strategies for making content easier, including repurposing, B-roll, case studies, pinned posts, Instagram Stories, batching video content, and tools inside Instagram's Edits app. In this episode, we cover: Why visibility doesn't require constantly being "on" What matters more than going viral Why two or three strong posts per week may be enough How to repurpose blogs and emails into Instagram content Lower-pressure content formats for introverts How to create stronger case studies Simple ways to make filming and editing easier Why your audience's questions are already content ideas When to actually start paying attention to your analytics Why you shouldn't abandon a new strategy after two weeks About Madelyn Victoria Madelyn Victoria is a fractional CMO, social media manager, and ShowIt website designer who has been helping six- and seven-figure service providers and coaches with their marketing since 2019. She's also a self-described huge introvert, giving her firsthand experience building visibility without wanting to constantly perform online. Get Madelyn's Playbook Want to see what these strategies look like in practice? Follow @madelynvictoriaco on Instagram and DM her the word PLAYBOOK to get her behind-the-scenes resource featuring real content examples and the strategy behind them. Build a Business That Can Grow Without More of You If your business still depends heavily on you personally delivering, selling, explaining, and holding everything together, watch my free training: How to Build a Signature Offer That Sells, Scales, and Gives You More Freedom Go to lauraschoenfeld.com/scale to watch.

This week on FratChat, we're exposing some of Pop Culture's Biggest Scams, from celebrity wellness bullshit to massive financial crimes. We're talking about Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop and the infamous vaginal jade egg, Logan Paul and the bizarre world of CryptoZoo, Billy McFarland and the disastrous Fyre Festival, the real Wolf of Wall Street Jordan Belfort, and the absolutely insane story of Lou Pearlman, the man who helped create both the Backstreet Boys and *NSYNC while simultaneously screwing them financially and running a massive Ponzi scheme, and MORE. We're asking the question behind every one of these stories: How the fuck did anyone fall for this crap? Plus, Emails From the Listeners brings us a guy who has spent three years telling his girlfriend that his mother is dead, only to find out they're about to meet at a family baptism, along with a woman wondering how to tell if her coworker actually likes her. In the News, we have the latest detais on unbelievable story of an elite HYROX athlete who pooped herself during a competition, kept competing and won the race. And in Not the Drag Queens, we're talking about a U.S. diplomat in London who is under investigation over allegations involving child sexual abuse material and the bizarre circumstances surrounding American authorities flying him out of the UK. It's another week of FratChat, where apparently nobody has learned their lesson. Got a question, comment or topic for us to cover? Let us know! Send us an email at fratchatpodcast@gmail.com or follow us on all social media: Instagram: http://Instagram.com/FratChatPodcast Facebook: http://Facebook.com/FratChatPodcast Twitter: http://Twitter.com/FratChatPodcast YouTube: http://YouTube.com/@fratchatpodcast Follow Carlos and CMO on social media! Carlos:  IG: http://Instagram.com/CarlosDoesTheWorld YouTube: http://YouTube.com/@carlosdoestheworld TikTok: http://TikTok.com/@carlosdoestheworld Twitter: http://Twitter.com/CarlosDoesWorld Threads: http://threads.net/carlosdoestheworld Website: http://carlosgarciacomedy.com Chris ‘CMO' Moore:  IG: http://Instagram.com/Chris.Moore.Comedy TikTok: http://TikTok.com/@chris.moore.comedy Twitter: http://Twitter.com/cmoorecomedy Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Airstream CMO Mollie Hansen and Nomadics founder Chris Pendl built Camp Airstream as a product owners pay to attend, not a campaign — then had to prove to the business what that community is actually worth.An experience becomes a product when people come back to it. Camp Airstream runs as an ongoing program rather than a campaign moment, which changes who owns it, how it's staffed, and what "finished" means.The hard part is internal. Hansen and Pendl on the people, processes, and technology behind a consistent experience, and on making the investment case when the return doesn't land on a quarterly dashboard.Trust has real economics behind it. How brand affinity and community connect to loyalty, lifetime value, and acquisition — and what the team decided was a credible stand-in for community health.About Mollie HansenMollie Hansen is CMO at Airstream, where she leads the brand's approach to marketing, experience and community. Since joining Airstream's executive team in 2011, Mollie has helped guide the brand through a period of sustained growth and renewed cultural relevance by focusing on the complete customer journey from inspiration to ownership. Her work emphasizes experience as a driver of loyalty and long-term value, while staying grounded in Airstream's enduring promise of exploration, craftsmanship and connection.Mollie Hansen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mollie-hansen-5678185/About Chris PendlChris Pendl is the founder and principal of Nomadics, a strategy and experience design agency working at the intersection of brand, loyalty and live experiences. He partners with premium outdoor, travel and lifestyle companies to turn experiential marketing into measurable growth, designing membership programs, experiential platforms and brand-led communities that drive retention, advocacy and revenue. Nomadics' work combines strategic insight with real-world execution, enabling brands to move beyond one-off moments and build lasting customer relationships.Chris Pendl on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispendl/---------- Resources ----------Airstream: https://www.airstream.comNomadics: https://www.nomadics.workThe Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://aglbrnd.co/r/2868abd8085a9703We're proud to be a media partner for #MAICON26 - Oct. 13-15! Learn how AI can power your marketing and business and help you grow smarter. Use code AGILE150 to save! https://aglbrnd.co/r/7fe458ced0f04658Reach your customers with Reddit. Spend $500 in ad spend, get $500 back in ad credit! Learn more: https://advertalize.com/r/491818c79fb1873fChaser is the only Slack-native project management platform that helps teams turn messages into tracked tasks, automate follow-ups, and maintain team-wide visibility, without adopting another tool. Now integrated with Claude and other GenAI tools. Learn more at trychaser.com and use code AGILEBRAND for a 3-month free trial (normal trial is 14 days).The most influential minds in software, AI, and engineering leadership will be at WeAreDevelopers World Congress North America, September 23-25 in San Jose. Learn more: https://aglbrnd.co/r/60a7299222a7bcf1Start building your own apps with Replit and get $20 off. Learn more: https://aglbrnd.co/r/93531742a7625a20Enjoyed the show? Tell us more and give us a rating so others can find the show: https://aglbrnd.co/r/faaed112fc9887f3Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstromDon't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter, and check out Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://aglbrnd.co/r/35ded3ccfb6716baThe Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content: https://aglbrnd.co/r/f1782ab12211f765 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

AI is starting to decide which hotels travelers see — and what it says about your property may not even be right. Michael Bennett, CEO of Cendyn, and Nicki Graham, CMO, join me on No Vacancy to talk about what happens when travelers start asking ChatGPT, Gemini and other AI tools where they should stay — and the information those tools return doesn't match what the hotel actually wants people to know. That's the drift problem. AI pulls from multiple sources, and once the wrong information starts showing up, hotels risk losing bookings or disappointing guests who arrive expecting something the property never promised. The opportunity here is bigger than simply fixing bad information. Hotels need to think differently about content, visibility and direct booking as search becomes more conversational. See why Michael and Nicki believe hoteliers need to take control of their story now, before AI-driven hotel search really takes off. Want the weekly roundup of news, videos, and what you might've missed from #NoVacancyNews? Text HOTEL to 66866.

What happens when the career and life you've carefully built suddenly fall apart?In this episode of the Second Act Success Podcast, business coach and host Shannon Russell sits down with author, coach, and former corporate strategist Becca Eve Young for an honest conversation about career reinvention, leaving corporate, starting a business, and creating a life that actually feels like your own.Becca began her career in interior design before moving into marketing and branding, eventually working with major brands and companies including Calvin Klein. But after experiencing multiple layoffs, the collapse of the housing market, a divorce, personal loss, and ultimately losing her corporate job during the pandemic while living in Mexico, Becca began questioning everything about the life she had been building.  Instead of returning to the corporate world, she sold her belongings, moved back to Mexico, began consulting as a fractional CMO, and started creating a slower life on her own terms. That transition eventually led her to entrepreneurship, coaching, and writing her memoir, It's Gonna Get Messy.  Shannon and Becca talk about what it really takes to make a major career change, why consulting can be a smart bridge from employee to entrepreneur, the importance of slowing down long enough to figure out what you actually want, and why the "messy middle" can sometimes lead you exactly where you're supposed to go.You'll also hear Becca's perspective on accountability in entrepreneurship, finding work that truly lights you up, writing a deeply personal memoir, and learning to see life's difficult chapters as opportunities for growth.If you're experiencing career burnout, considering leaving corporate, starting a business, or wondering how to reinvent yourself after an unexpected life change, this conversation is a powerful reminder that your next chapter doesn't need to look anything like the one you planned.Listen now and start thinking about what you want your second act to look like.